# What's a good Freeview Tuner for TiVo I can buy tomorrow?



## Mark Ward

SkyHD is coming tomorrow and I was intending to sell the TiVo, but I just can't. I've made a last minute decision to put it in the bedroom with a Freeview box. What's a good, reliable freeview box for TiVo that I can find easily and buy tomorrow?

I read the other thread, but that info was quite a while ago and inconclusive.

Please fire a couple of suggestions at me.

Many, many thanks,

Mark.


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## Mike B

There is currently a batch of the Labgear version of the SetPal STB on eBay right now. I'm not allowed to link to the auction, but a quick search for SetPal should find them..

I've got one myself, and they are perfect for tivo as you can disable all of the interactive crap and get it to auto-power-on after a power cut. Also works in some weaker signal areas....


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## Fred Smith

Agree with the SetPal recommendation. As I use two myself, one with my TiVo.

Also have an Onn box from Asda seems to work OK and also works will with weak signals. I don't use mine with my TiVo as it does not have a RF modulated output required for a dual Freesat / Freeview setup.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=311439&highlight=onn


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## Mark Ward

Thanks for those, setpal it is...

A quick view on eBay shows:-

"Labgear DTT100 ( Setpal ) Freeview set top box" 

and 

"Daewoo Freeview Box (SetPal DV3 - DS608P)"

Which is the one to go for?

Also, which Tuner setting do you use on the TiVo with this set?

Thanks,

Mark.


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## Mike B

I've got the Labgear version of the SetPal (and Fred has two, judging by his signature), so I'd go for that. However, I *think* all versions of the SetPal box were the same inside, so it's probably all down to which one you prefer the look of...

When you say 'tuner setting', do you mean what remote code to use? If so, it'll be 20032, under manufacturer Labgear.


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## Fred Smith

Actually there are five models / manufacturers.

Labgear DTT100
Daewoo DS608P 
BT / Dijam 32VU 
Triax DVB2000T
Portland

However it does not matter which you go for as they are all the same inside, as long as the firmware is 0059 or later. The first 0050 will green screen with at regular intervals. The lastest and last firmware is 0157.


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## Mark Ward

Fred Smith said:


> It does not matter which you go for as they are all the same inside, as long as the firmware is 0059 or later. The first 0050 will green screen with at regular intervals. The lastest and last firmware is 0157.


That's good to know, thanks Fred...Are these Firmware upgrade flashable?


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## Fred Smith

No. Off air only.

0157 was broadcast last weekend for the first time in about six months. Would not hold your breath waiting for it to happen again.


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## benallenuk

Ive just ordered one of those mentioned labgear STB on ebay, a very good price in my eyes, considering its got a RF modulator rather than just a RF Pass-thru.

What problems might i come up against if i have an old firmware version?


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## Mark Ward

I bought the Labgear one off eBay too, thanks for that.

Got SkyHD today and my heart sunk when I found out what these Sky+ people have to put up with. I have to say I'm wondering what I've done. I've a feeling my Tivo'll be back in the next week. Sky have no idea when it comes to interfaces or recording options. But that would be another thread which I'm sure there's plenty of similar ones already.

Thanks again,

Mark.


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## Ian_m

benallenuk said:


> What problems might i come up against if i have an old firmware version?


On SetPal old firmware versions, mine used to crash (to either green screen of screen of mess) on the C4 adverts for Big Brother. Not too sure if you could disable the MHEG interactive stuff on earlier SW versions.

Also couldn't disable auto scan for channels, mine used to do it at 3.17am, 17minutes into Australian F1, very annoying. It does ask on screen "Do you wish to scan for channels ?" but defaults to YES.

In speaking to SetPal in early 2003 (about Big Brother adverts crashing the box) they said the updates will be broadcast every 6 months.

If you have disabled all auto SW/channel scanning and an update is being broadcast just either turn box off for 1/2 hour or force a SW update scan from the engineering menus.


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## Mike B

You can disable the interactive (MHEG) on all of the software versions I think - it just varied on how you got into the engineering menus. It was either: [STATUS][TEXT][SELECT][SELECT][TEXT] 
or
[STATUS][RED][YELLOW][GREEN][BLUE]
from memory.


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## Ian_m

From somewhare a long time ago.....

SetPal software (Build 126 and above) allows the downloading of advertising banners in the dead of night (0317-0400 to be precise) for display on the Guide pages. Fortunately the downloading of these can be inhibited in the engineering menus which are available by pressing

[Status][Select][Text][Text][Select].

Can also change the SCART to S-video and YUV in engineering menu. Need a special lead though.



Code:


Scart Pin  RGB    S-video  YUV
=========  ====   =======  ====
19        CVBS    CVBS     CVBS
15        R        C       R-Y
11        G        Y       Y
7         B       CVBS     B-Y


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## Mike B

Seeing as TiVo will only be able to record RGB and S-Video (with RGB being the better quality of the two), is there any benefit in using a lead such as this?


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## Ian_m

Mike B said:


> Seeing as TiVo will only be able to record RGB and S-Video (with RGB being the better quality of the two), is there any benefit in using a lead such as this?


Handy if you have a cheapy DVD recorder whose best input quality is S-Video.


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## AMc

Or you want to hook up to a projector using YUV component!

Not helpful to a Tivo in either case, but a £30 Freeview box with component output would be great for watching footie etc. on the big screen!


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## Mark Ward

> When you say 'tuner setting', do you mean what remote code to use? If so, it'll be 20032, under manufacturer Labgear.


Well my Labgear/Setpal box turned up today, but I don't have "LABGEAR" under the "Settop Box Control".

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Mark.


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## Mike B

Mark Ward said:


> Well my Labgear/Setpal box turned up today, but I don't have "LABGEAR" under the "Settop Box Control".
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark.


So you're saying if you go into Messages & Setup -> Recorder & Phone Setup -> Set-Top Box Control and press 'right', then the list of manufacturers doesn't include Labgear? Do you have Triax or Daewoo listed, as they should all use 20032 as their code, so either of them should work. The other way is to use the 'Freeview (1 of 2)' manufacturer, and choose one of the 20032 (fast/medium/slow) codes manually.

Has your tivo been successfully completing its daily calls recently, so any updates to the manufacturer list would be installed?


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## Ian_m

Mark Ward said:


> Well my Labgear/Setpal box turned up today, ...


Make sure you disable MHEG, channel scanning and SW update scanning so the box does nothing but produce a picture.


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## Mike B

Hmm. I ordered one of these as well (as a spare box) and it turned up with build_0059 on it - the engineering menus on this don't seem to be able to turn off the MHEG. 

I guess I'll have to wait for a s/w update (or more likely a re-broadcast of 0157).

Mark - what s/w did yours come with?


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## benallenuk

Hi, i also bought one of these and its got build 0.59. I cant seem to get into the menu's either, using status select text text select, or the other code using the coloured buttons.

any ideas?


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## Mike B

Getting into the Engineering Menu on Build_0059 is done by pressing [STATUS], then each of the coloured buttons in order from left to right (I think thats [RED][GREEN][YELLOW][BLUE]...)

However, all you will be able to do that's useful is turned off the 2am/6am forced OAD. It seems they didn't add the MHEG disable option until 0126


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## Mark Ward

Got Version 0059 here too 

Will have to hope for another update in the not too distant future.

I did however solve the mystery why I didn't have Labgear, it was because I hadn't realised the terrestrial set-top boxes were a different list than Satellite boxes. Set up correctly now (I hope), Tivo is doing a few hours of housekeeping having run setup again.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Mark.


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## smiffy

I assume that I only have the 0059 as I need to do status r g y b to access the service menu.

How do I disable the the "Forced OAD at"?

The screen looks like I need to press "2" to toggle the option, but this doesnt work?

If I press "1" I can toggle the "accept any version"

thanks


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## Mike B

smiffy said:


> How do I disable the the "Forced OAD at"?


If I press '2' on this screen, the option toggles round:

'Disabled'
'0255hrs GMT'
'0605hrs GMT'

If you want to verify what F/W version you have, press when on the status screen, and it should report the version of the F/W and bootloader, as well as give a primitive signal strength meter.​


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## Pete77

Mark Ward said:


> Got SkyHD today and my heart sunk when I found out what these Sky+ people have to put up with. I have to say I'm wondering what I've done. I've a feeling my Tivo'll be back in the next week. Sky have no idea when it comes to interfaces or recording options.


Just out of interest did you keep the Sky HD then and does the Sky+ interface get any better once you get used to it? After all you were entitled to ask Sky to take the Sky HD away within 28 days I believe?

Also do you even notice you are watching in HD after a while? Or is it only a 7 day wonder?


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## EdGillett

Well, I am finally ditching my NTL after 5 years - my STB has been cutting out to black screens at important points in programs far too frequently recently.

Anywho - I too ordered a LabGear DTT100 SetPal unit from eBay, which has arrived today. It'll be the first time my Tivo has a go with anything other than the NTL STB, and will also involve a load of upheaval trying to get to the cabling behind the TV (which is in the middle of a massive IKEA unit, bolted to the wall).

Here's hoping that these boxes do get updated with another software update eventually, even though they are discontinued.

Anyone having any issues with the stock firmware that comes with these units "out of the box". I know that in these early builds you can't disable the MHEG interactivity. - this proved to be an issue thus far?

Thanks. I've been a long time reader of this board, but don't post that often 

Ed


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## Pete77

EdGillett said:


> Well, I am finally ditching my NTL after 5 years - my STB has been cutting out to black screens at important points in programs far too frequently recently.d


My understanding is that with NTL there is no Freesat option if you desubscribe and that they own the box and want it back from you if you don't any longer pay them the sub?

In those circumstances then changing to Freeview does seem to make sense but I am a lot more puzzled by the long term Sky Digital folk who have done their 12 months contract and own the box and the dish but then decide to throw out both in favour of less reliable Freeview DTT reception technology when they desubscribe. They may gain E4 and UK History plus FTN, TMF and The Hits but lose a load of other free movie channels (most sadly not supporte in the Sky EPG) and CNN and various obscure free sports channels that are all free on Freesat.

On possible MHEG issues with the Setpal box can I suggest the best way to ensure they don't get locked up for good while you are on hols etc is to stick them on a cheap mains timer that goes off once every 24 hours at say 5am for 3 minutes. Or at least that my Freeview box (a Netgem IPlayer+) can still then be turned on again by the Tivo channel change command for a new recording when it has booted back up into standby from a mains power off - not sure about the Setpal though.


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## The Obo

Pete77 said:


> ...but then decide to throw out both in favour of less reliable *Freesat* reception technology when they desubscribe....


Don't you mean "less reliable *FreeView* reception technology"?


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## Pete77

The Obo said:


> Don't you mean "less reliable *FreeView* reception technology"?


Well spotted and now corrected.


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## EdGillett

I guess us computer geeks have a lot to be responsible for inflicting this view of "all technology needs frequent reboots to ensure healthy operation". (FYI - I'm a software developer as the day job).

I even had the Three customer service drones give me a recorded message the other day with "Did you know that most phone manufacturers suggest turning your phone off and on again every so often to ensure correct performance" (or words to that effect). I threw my Nokia N80 out the window because in all it's technological wizardry it seemed to forget how to perform it's primary job function of being able to make and receive phone calls and text messages. My current Sony Ericsson K610i seems to know how to do that for the moment.

I used to work with a guy from Microsoft who refused to reboot his servers just because there was a problem. To his credit he normally managed to establish what was causing the issues, resolve it permanently and only ever rebooted if he'd exhausted every other opportunity.

The Tivo Uptime in my house has been nothing short of legendary - testament to the fact that Tivo knew what they were doing, and made a good platform choice with their linux OS.

It's such a shame that with technology as reliable as Tivo we have to rely on daily reboot workarounds to the apparent lack of stability in freeview STBs.

Anywho - chose the SetPal STB on the strength of the recommendation from guys using them on this forum, since I wanted a box that would play nicely with Tivo, and since I really don't care about anything other than a solid picture. Here's hoping my faith is well founded 

As far as I'm aware the NTL STB is a paperweight without continuing to pay NTL, and they will collect the STB when I cancel my service.

Decided to save myself some money since we hardly watch any other channels on NTL aside from what we can get with Freeview, and by reactivating an old BT line in our property we can switch across to more competitvely priced ADSL offerings for broadband and feel free to switch between providers - something we couldn't do with an NTL phone line. NTL just don't seem to be particularly cost effective currently.


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## The Bear

So are there any othe suggestions apart from the Labgear and the Onn? Just needs to be a simple interface with no extra crap and be easily controllable by Tivo and powerable on/off for recording.

There is a few Labgear DTT100's left on ebay so I might ask what firmware they are before I buy. Where in the menus is the firmware version?


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## Fred Smith

On the last firmware 0157 it is shown by:

Status, yellow (next page)

Fourth item down shows current firmware.

Can't remember if previous versions were the same or try the engineering menu:

Status, Select, Text, Text, Select, right arrow four times to "Over the air software download" 

Third item down shows current firmware.


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## Pete77

EdGillett said:


> Decided to save myself some money since we hardly watch any other channels on NTL aside from what we can get with Freeview, and by reactivating an old BT line in our property we can switch across to more competitvely priced ADSL offerings for broadband and feel free to switch between providers - something we couldn't do with an NTL phone line. NTL just don't seem to be particularly cost effective currently.


But are you on one of the currently only 25% of exchanges where you could get "Free" broadband (8MB ADSL Max with 2Gb Data Cap) as long as you are a Sky subscriber of some form (minimum £15 per month). Out on a country exchange here myself though so no chance of that here.

Don't forget that unlike NTL with Sky you only have to do a year's contract and then the box and dish is then yours to keep and use as a Freesat box (also you can then resubscribe for the odd month if some major sporting thing is on you want to see with only 1 month minimum). Minimum 1 year sub cost on SKy is only £150 and you can also get a further £50 cashback on becoming a new Sky subscriber at www.quidco.co.uk.


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## EdGillett

Good suggestions all Pete.

I can't actually install a Sky dish where I live currently (block of flats with strict rules on such things for communal aesthetics).

But I'll be moving house next year and may consider Sky at that time. As soon as I can afford to splurge on pay tv again, I shall


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## Pete77

EdGillett said:


> Good suggestions all Pete.
> 
> I can't actually install a Sky dish where I live currently (block of flats with strict rules on such things for communal aesthetics).
> 
> But I'll be moving house next year and may consider Sky at that time. As soon as I can afford to splurge on pay tv again, I shall


Sky Digital now at long last have a scheme where they will come and do the install of a communal satellite dish system with a single hidden dish in a block of up to 25 flats for free. Their only pre-condition is that at least 25% of residents agree to sign for the basic Sky package (£15 per month) or higher. As long as that is met they put a point in every flat. See www.skyhomes.co.uk/page.aspx?pageId=28

If the flat is in an area where the exchange is already enabled by Easynet and so can also have the free 8MB Sky broadband (2Gb monthly data cap) then this would be very attractive to fellow flat owners I would have thought. See www.samknows.com and do Exchange Search for your exchange to find out if your exchange is Easynet enabled.


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## EdGillett

I didn't know this was available. Interesting.

It's something that I probably won't be pursuing though, given that we'll be looking to move at the beginning of next year, but I'm sure it'll be of interest to others in the similar circumstances.

Also thanks for those links - my exchange (Guildford) is indeed EasyNet enabled, with Be connections coming online in February. I will check out the exchanges where we are looking to move to 

Thanks.


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## Pete77

EdGillett said:


> It's something that I probably won't be pursuing though, given that we'll be looking to move at the beginning of next year, but I'm sure it'll be of interest to others in the similar circumstances.
> 
> Also thanks for those links - my exchange (Guildford) is indeed EasyNet enabled, with Be connections coming online in February. I will check out the exchanges where we are looking to move to


Sky only launched the Free Sky Dish communal dish scheme for flats in Autumn last year. Before that if you were a flat owner they just wrongly assumed it must be a council flat or in a massive private block where you had a large professional landlord who could do the communal install for you. Now their subscriber growth is basically stuck and they desperately need the flat dwellers.

Ironically of course if Broadband Television all actually supplied by the broadband connection (as opposed to a free broadband connection for internet use packaged in with a Sky satellite television service) is ever properly launched then the Free Shared Dish would no longer be necessary. However I think such a service is a way off yet as downloading Gbs of data a day is still something that the uk ISPs currently find it too expensive to support. The new BT so called Broadband tv service will actually record and store most of the programs via Freeview on its hard drive.


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## The Bear

expect BE to constantly push back the exchange enablement date. they've been forever moving mine back since August last year.


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## The Bear

Back on topic, any other suggestions for cheap reliable STBs with good reception?


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## EdGillett

Doom. The SetPal was not happy at all with the signal coming off my admittedly unknown calibre communal aerial. The picture was heavily breaking up and sound cutting out. Found all the channels, but signal was very poor.

Now, I have previously had a Philips STB on that same aerial connection for a day or two before (last time I decided to ditch NTL), and that worked fine and had a flawless signal. These Philips boxes have this "Pulse Killer Chip" which is supposed to counteract interference from nearby sources of interference.

I'm convinced that some other flat owner nearby is using Wireless Lan, cordless phone etc. which is causing interference. In my flat I also have a 2.4Ghz wireless video sender (which seldom gets used), but that suffers from pulsing interference when in use. 

I'm going to get another Philips box to try that again, and will let you know how I get on. Will keep hold of the SetPal for when we move house next year (and I have control of my own aerial!).


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## Pete77

There seem to be very favourable reviews by current owners of the Sony Freeview box suggesting that it never ever crashes and the Sony Freeview tuner also seems to have the best performance of the lot in a weak reception area. It did seem to have some kind of issue originally though with not coping with the timesharing BBC channels like CBeebies/BBC Four and CBBC/BBC Three (leaving the off air message on screen on the other time share channel number that was now supposed to be on air) although that may have been solved.

The BT/Netgem IPlayer+ also has a Sony Freeview tuner chip on board giving the same very sensitive reception in poor areas and it also definitely does not suffer the timeshare channel issue. Also under the latest software version it never crashes in just televison reception mode, although it can be made to crash when used for some types of internet browsing.

Unfortunately it looks as though Netgem have now ceased software development and firmware upgrades for the box though after a very active program for 2 or 3 years. They are now working on PVR variants of the box with built in hard drives that also support web tv too.

If you are in a bad reception area for Freeview though and can have a satellite dish I would suggest signing up for a minimum sub level package with Sky at £150 for a year and get the extra £50 cashback at www.quidco.co.uk and then desubscribe at the end of it. In a bad Freeview reception area upgrading your aerial to try and improve things using a professional install will cost £200 or more if it is on a pitched roof (these guys charge danger money for their work) which isn't worth it compared to a Sky box that will give guaranteed reliable reception.


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## EdGillett

It seems that every time I see reviews for Freeview boxes (try the list at digitalspy: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/ ) everyone has differing opinions on every box they try. For every 1 star panning, there's someone else that seems to have had no problems at all.

The one standout does appear to be the Sony box which does receive rave reviews, but is fairly hard to come by it seems. Those selling on eBay are holding their price too, so it still makes it one of the more expensive STBs on the market, but then again, you buy cheap, you buy twice, so perhaps it's better just to shell out for something with the legendary performance of the Sony?

As I said, I'm going to give the Philips another go, despite the number of people which seem to have issues with them. At least it's a modern box which will hopefully have reasonable chance for firmware updates (something I don't think could be said of the SetPal DTT100 by the sounds of it).


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## Pete77

EdGillett said:


> It seems that every time I see reviews for Freeview boxes (try the list at digitalspy: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/ ) everyone has differing opinions on every box they try. For every 1 star panning, there's someone else that seems to have had no problems at all.


Clearly any owner reviewing only their own box who has not used many or any other Freeview boxes cannot be relied on to give sensible or meaningful opinions. A lot of these people just have a motivation either to slam the only box they own because they hate it or because they are one of those sad people who need to prove to the world that their box must be the absolute best.

I would only really trust someone who understands DTT and Freeview fairly well as a technology and who is swapping out these boxes and using them on the same aerial connection over a number of days to give sensible opinions on comparative abilities of the units. In particular the ability of a Freeview unit to withstand interference compared to other units can only be evaluated reliably by watching it for a number of hours.

The bottom line is if you have a good strong Freeview signal from a transmitter then go for it but get a box which seems to have a decent chance of having its software still updated for some time to come and has also been rated well for performance. Obviously if you can't easily put up your own satellite dish for aesthetic or legal or line of sight reasons but have a good aerial signal then Freeview is going to be your best option. However in a bad Freeview reception area I would usually suggest that going for the Sky satellite or NTL/Telewest cable options (although the cable option won't be available that ofteb places where Freeview reception does not exist or is poor) is best.

Although broadband tv is supposed to be coming soon I believe this will only be for supplemental specialist programs and that the majority of the programs recorded on the harddisk of such broadband tv PVRs will in fact still have been received by satellite or Freeview for some time to come. The data use charges of BT Wholesale need to fall a long way further before true live broadband based web tv over the web for every program you watch becomes a reality.


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## EdGillett

Well, an update on two fronts for those interested.

The SetPal DTT100 was installed in my sisters house not far from me in Guildford as a stop gap measure until she gets her NTL installed (she's just moved house). Simple install, perfect signal and the best picture she says she's ever seen on that TV (after years of having NTL Digital cable as well ...). Sidenote: cables count for a lot - I threw away what looked like a perfectly reasonable RF cable as an interconnect between her video and TV (TV doesn't have any scart sockets unfortunately ..), since it proved to be the cause of awful waving interference. Poor shielding evidently. Used the RF Cable that came with the SetPal, worked like a charm.

So - SetPal looking good - will let you know how it performs over the longer term.

For my own Freeview experiment I got hold of a Philips 210/05 STB from Currys for £39.99 yesterday, and it performed significantly better than the SetPal managed on my ropey aerial signal. Initial scan of channels completely skipped over finding any channels on UHF 22 - 25 (so that skipped all the ITV, C4, E4 etc.) but found the rest of them, and they were all solid - excellent pictures. Did a rescan and it found the other channels this time, but the reception is dodgy - the signal is barely there. It suffers from dropouts, but nothing nearly as bad as the SetPal did here.

Hooked it up to the Tivo and reperformed the Guided Setup (ah .. memories). Was able to use on the Philips remote codes on FAST, and is having no issues changing. Have it set to send one leading zero and no enter currently - seems to do the trick. TIP: Test with channel changing into the double digits in case you have issues with 10 and 11 

Can't seem to find any option to disable the OSD when you change channels, but it only flashes for a second and is actually good to reassure you that it had changed channel correctly 

Left it overnight and noticed that the weak channels had changed to a completely blank screen. A rescan brought the signal back again, but it's clearly just the issue with signal strength on those. Not blaming the box 

SO - options to improve my signal strength SHOULD be to upgrade the main aerial, but I'm not sure if I can be bothered to go through the agro of getting that sorted in our block of flats. Would an internal aerial be any use? Including an amplified one?

Would a booster help? Or is that just going to be boosting the crap signal? My understanding has always been that these booster/amplifier plug in boxes were for the sole purpose of distribution as opposed to attempting to correct poor signal? Is it worth a go? 

So close ...


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## EdGillett

Hmm ... http://www.stevelarkins.freeuk.com/tv_signal_booster.htm

Would appear to answer my own question: "In short, don't waste your money by buying a cheap TV aerial amplifier which you just intend to install in your living room behind your TV. You will find it ineffective and problematic. By far the best signal booster or amplifier is a masthead fitted type"


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## worm

I would not recommend a Philips. We had one and it's been nothing but trouble. (this was a DTR500 I think - something like that). Constantly losing channels, freezing, missing changes etc. and you need to press a 'special' button to select Digital Radio channels so TiVo can't record them.

We got the Sony as a replacement, and it's been rock solid. The only annoyance is that the shared-time channels (BBC3 etc) do still get the overlay problem on occasion. This *is* a problem, and really does need sorting out (I can't see why it's such an issue for Sony to sort it) but apart from that, the box has been 100% reliable.


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## Pete77

EdGillett said:


> Hmm ... http://www.stevelarkins.freeuk.com/tv_signal_booster.htm
> 
> Would appear to answer my own question: "In short, don't waste your money by buying a cheap TV aerial amplifier which you just intend to install in your living room behind your TV. You will find it ineffective and problematic. By far the best signal booster or amplifier is a masthead fitted type"


Depending which floor in the block of flats if it is high its worth trying one of Philips latest high tech integrated set top aerials and boosters with 45db amplifier that is rated for DTT reception ability. I have had very good results with these in strong reception areas only a few miles from the transmitter including in Central London pointed at Crystal Palace 5 miles away. You often get a much cleaner signal than on an old communal aerial system. Trying to boost a communal signal is a waste of time having tried many permutations.

See www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/c...&proxybuster=EAY354MAHK1RBJ0RMRCSHQFHKFSESI5P

and

www.popcorn-uk.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=6717

Is this signal coming from a Guildford transmitter rather than Crystal Palace which would be too far away fro even the best set top aerial.


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## Pete77

worm said:


> I would not recommend a Philips. We had one and it's been nothing but trouble. (this was a DTR500 I think - something like that). Constantly losing channels, freezing, missing changes etc. and you need to press a 'special' button to select Digital Radio channels so TiVo can't record them.
> 
> We got the Sony as a replacement, and it's been rock solid. The only annoyance is that the shared-time channels (BBC3 etc) do still get the overlay problem on occasion. This *is* a problem, and really does need sorting out (I can't see why it's such an issue for Sony to sort it) but apart from that, the box has been 100% reliable.


Philips is only a marketing company that commissions factories to make things for it on the whole to a certain spec. Thus some Philips products are excellent and others rubbish. Its perfectly possible for one of their DTT boxes to be total pants and another one made to a different design in a different factory to be one of the best out there.

As you point out although the Sony box is great for normal interactive viewing with a weak signal its no good for Tivo use with the BBC timeshare chanels because of the annoying overlay message that pops up. It does seem hard to believe that Sony have still not rectified this but perhaps its a function of their hardware design and software can't overcome it?

The new Philips pulse killer chip design does sound like it would a significant difference in weaker reception areas. No other Freeview box makers yet seem to have incorporate this but maybe Philips has a patent?


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## The Bear

Decided not to go for the Setpal as the versions the guy has on ebay are all 0059 (I asked) so can't get rid of the ad banners.

I like the look of the TVonics Prism but that's not in the supported STB list 

Don't really want to pay over £50 max if I can help it. I just want a supported box that has good reception and is quick with a decent interface layout.


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## The Bear

You said in the first paragraph the SetPal was perfect:



EdGillett said:


> The SetPal DTT100 was installed in my sisters house not far from me in Guildford as a stop gap measure until she gets her NTL installed (she's just moved house). Simple install, perfect signal and the best picture she says she's ever seen on that TV


Yet....



> it performed significantly better than the SetPal managed on my ropey aerial signal.





> It suffers from dropouts, but nothing nearly as bad as the SetPal did here.


...the above quotes confuse me. So you're saying the Phillips was better than the SetPal for signal quality and dropouts?


----------



## Pete77

The Bear said:


> Don't really want to pay over £50 max if I can help it. I just want a supported box that has good reception and is quick with a decent interface layout.


Quite a few choices of brand new units at:-

www.kelkoo.co.uk or www.pricegrabber.co.uk or www.pricerunner.co.uk - Just type Freeview into the search box.

Or go to www.ebay.co.uk and type in Freeview as quite a few people sell new units there.

I didn't realise there was a twin tuner Sony Freeview PVR with 80GB hard drive out now for just over £150. Still no good to support a Tivo really.


----------



## The Bear

Cheers Pete, will check them out.


----------



## Ian_m

The Bear said:


> Decided not to go for the Setpal as the versions the guy has on ebay are all 0059 (I asked) so can't get rid of the ad banners.


I don't think the ad banners appeared until much later builds 159 ??


----------



## Pete77

The Bear said:


> Cheers Pete, will check them out.


Forget the Panasonic TU-CT41

Has terible reviews at www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds25409.html

Can only suggest you find a box in the pricerunner site page that's at your price level and then check out the digitalspy review listings for it.


----------



## EdGillett

A clarifiction - the SetPal didn't perform well with my communal aerial in my flat, but when given a decent signal in my sisters house (also in Guildford, but a few miles away from me) it had rock solid pictures and perfect reception. I've not used the SetPal myself beyond looking at the picture briefly for my sister. On build 00_59 which is what this box is, I didn't see any ads popup? Only has the now and next EPG by the looks of it. Appears to do the job though. It will now be dormant for a bit since my sister gets her NTHell back again today.

An update on the Philips - I attached a cheap single set booster (+10DB I think - it's a one 4 all model) and this has cured my signal problem. It would seem that the signal I was getting off the communal aerial was weak but fairly clean. With the booster the signal strength bars on all channels is now full or around 70 - 80% at worse. The Manual Tuning screen indication of signal strength per UHF channel jumped from "Poor" with just the aerial to "Very Good" (say 20% jump to 70%).

And, due to a comedy of errors relating to what cables I had to hand at the time, the booster is actually installed at the "wrong" end of the cable, next to the STB, as opposed to just by the aerial socket in the wall. So done the other way round (the right way) it should only get better.

The Philips appears to now be behaving very well. The DTR210/05 is the black model, and is a more recent revision than the old white 210's which had issues. Tips as well - may sound obvious, but use the TV Scart output to feed the Tivo or else it wasn't doing widescreen switching correctly.

To confirm other comments made about this Philips, the IR does have to be line of sight - it's bizarre. The most direction sensitive remote I've ever used  Not that it bugs me because I'm using Tivo's IR Wand anyway.


----------



## EdGillett

All my signals come from Crystal Palace. 

And even with this booster, nothing coming upo from Multiplex B - think that first night's fleeting glimpse of HD Trial channels on the channel search was a fluke.


----------



## EdGillett

It has a quiet, but audible electronic "shimmer" for want of a better word. Not a whistle or a drone or anything, but it does make a quiet audible noise. You don't notice it unless the room is silent and you're listening for it, but thought I would add it into the mix. Certainly wouldn't have stopped me from buying one had I known about it.

TheBear - this Philips was £39.99 from Currys - the UI is pleasant, it plays well with Tivo and did a sterling job in terms of reception on a weak communal aerial, and did even better once it got boosted. I'm very pleased with it thus far.

I'm approaching the day when my BT line will be installed and this lil box will be the only thing that feeds my Tivo. I'm trusting it to record programs for my wife, and in so doing am trusting it with my life (since she's very attached to Tivo!).


----------



## Andrew Dade

My vote is for the Sony had it for several months no probs, no reboots or missed recordings. Got mine from Amazon, well worth the extra money in my view. I had an old Pioneer ondigital box nothing but problems drop outs etc etc...

I think Gary Sargent has the sony too ??? 

Andrew


----------



## Pete77

Andrew Dade said:


> My vote is for the Sony had it for several months no probs, no reboots or missed recordings. Got mine from Amazon, well worth the extra money in my view. I had an old Pioneer ondigital box nothing but problems drop outs etc etc...


That does sound a positive review for the Sony unit but what about the problem of the BBC timeshare channels and the onscreen graphic for the off air channel apparently showing up on the on air version of the channel that is broadcast on another Freeview channel number (eg the BBC/CBeebies time share combination). Doesn't that mess up any of your recordings of programs on BBC Three or BBC Four, assuming that is you don't also record CBBC or CBeebies too and get the problem there as well but in reverse.

However good the base Sony Freeview box may be the combined new Sony Freeview and PVR box with 80Gb hard drive that costs only around £150 sounds even more interesting and could even work with Tivo as long as one only used it to resolve time clash recording problems on series on two different channels that are broadcast at the same time.


----------



## Andrew Dade

Hi Pete,
To be honest I dont record much from BBC 3 or 4... just plugged it in and forgot about it. Replaced my std sky box when I upgraded to HD you see. Must have 70 season passes, all sorts.

I noticed a big improvement on ITV moving from Sky to DTT Freeview also but thats not down to the box I guess.

As of yet no missed channel changes or recordings as far as I can see..

If you want me to do a test from BBC3 can do, just let me know what would be a good test show.

Looks like they are hard to come by now, a few on ebay...

I bought this one because the Pioneer I had was not reliable and Gary has one


----------



## The Bear

Well I ended up buying a Wharfdale DV832B after looking through Argos/Comet/Currys/Dixons listings and checking the reviews of them on DigitalSpy. It's only £29.99, though I bought a 3-year warranty for an extra £4.99 which is pretty good value overall.

It gets very good reviews - 4/5 with 96 comments. They say it has a strong tuner, quick interface, great picture, decent 7 day EPG, 2 scarts and an RF loop. 

Best of all it has a digital clock on the front. I lost my clock display for my bedroom when I ditched the VCR for the Tivo so it's a welcome addition.

I'll let you know how I get on with the STB after I pick it up tomorrow.


----------



## terryeden

Do any of the current crop of boxes allow you to
a) Disable MHEG (press red)
b) Disable forced software / channel scanning.

I live in fear of my Daewoo Setpal biting the dust...


----------



## DazBarber

One way round the Sony problem is to set a 5 minute manual recording to precede the required recording on BBC3 or BBC4. When the manual recording reaches the end, the channel will be reselected and if the red mist problem has occurred, it will then clear.

Works for me every time!

Daz


----------



## Pete77

DazBarber said:


> One way round the Sony problem is to set a 5 minute manual recording to precede the required recording on BBC3 or BBC4. When the manual recording reaches the end, the channel will be reselected and if the red mist problem has occurred, it will then clear.


I'm sure that will be really helpful when my Concorde Wishlist unexpectedly picks up a program on BBC Four. Also presumably your system relies on manually reviewing all your ToDo list every week to see if a series you have set for BBC Four has started a new run or the showing time for an existing series has changed. And that's not to mention Suggestions deciding to record from BBC Three or BBC Four.

Surely its much easier to get a BT IPlayer+ which also has the Sony tuner chip, web and email capability and no BBC Three or Four screen overlay problem.

The whole reason I got a Tivo was so as to set and forget my favourite programs and not have to set things manually like a video recorder.


----------



## rwtomkins

I believe the Sony overlay problem also affects CITV, which I haven't seen reported before. I've just started recording CITV programmes for the kids but yesterday I lost my first CITV recording, I suspect because the Sony box was tuned into CBeebies earlier in the day. The Sony box is a real pain for anyone who records a lot of children's TV.


----------



## DazBarber

rwtomkins said:


> I believe the Sony overlay problem also affects CITV, which I haven't seen reported before. I've just started recording CITV programmes for the kids but yesterday I lost my first CITV recording, I suspect because the Sony box was tuned into CBeebies earlier in the day. The Sony box is a real pain for anyone who records a lot of children's TV.


Well, I can bring good news Sony fans - tomorrow (5th October) the Sony box receives an OTA update which apparently will, amongst other things, finally fix this bug 
Read this for more details 
Now we should have perfection!
Daz


----------



## worm

woo, and indeed hoo.

that is great news - shame it took so long, but the Sony box will now be so near perfect it hurts


----------



## The Bear

The Wharfdale box has been very good so far. Nice pic quality (Much better than my old Sagem) and very quick channel changes, even through the Tivo IR. Well pleased with it for only £29.99.


----------



## Pete77

worm said:


> woo, and indeed hoo.
> 
> that is great news - shame it took so long, but the Sony box will now be so near perfect it hurts


I wonder if these elements of the Sony box's tuner code re timeshare channels are also shared with their new twin tuner HDD PVR box?

Isn't that the reason they have dropped the tuner only product because tuner only Freeview boxes are now selling for only peanuts and Sony prefers to operate nearer the premium priced end of the market place?

Anyone here tried the HDD Sony Freeview box yet?


----------



## Swiftycollins

Anyone got a PACE DTVA I cant seem to get the Ir blaster to work.
Any tips?


----------



## rwtomkins

EXCELLENT news about the Sony Freeview box. Thanks, DazBarber. I'm holding my breath...

Pete77, if you mean the SVRS-500, by all accounts it's not really a Sony product at all, it's just an inferior re-badge of the Digifusion FVRT200. At least the FVRT200 has had most of its bugs ironed out through OTAs. The SVRS-500 has had a pretty bad press on the DigitalSpy and AVForums.

But no, I haven't tried it myself.


----------



## Pete77

rwtomkins said:


> Pete77, if you mean the SVRS-500, by all accounts it's not really a Sony product at all, it's just an inferior re-badge of the Digifusion FVRT200. At least the FVRT200 has had most of its bugs ironed out through OTAs. The SVRS-500 has had a pretty bad press on the DigitalSpy and AVForums


Very disappointing to think Sony would let their good name be used for an inferior third party product that is not up to their usual quality or production standards


----------



## DazBarber

worm said:


> woo, and indeed hoo.
> 
> that is great news - shame it took so long, but the Sony box will now be so near perfect it hurts


Actually, I hate to admit it but, even though my Sony updated today, while flicking up the channels (via TiVo - to check the new channel numbering) I've just had the red-screen problem on BBCFour. Eek!

Daz


----------



## rwtomkins

DazBarber said:


> Actually, I hate to admit it but, even though my Sony updated today, while flicking up the channels (via TiVo - to check the new channel numbering) I've just had the red-screen problem on BBCFour. Eek!
> 
> Daz


Nooooooooooooo!

Haven't tried mine yet so I can't confirm. But did you remember to take it in and out of standby?

One thing I've always wondered about this problem. Is it only TiVo users who get it? If so, why?


----------



## Pete77

rwtomkins said:


> One thing I've always wondered about this problem. Is it only TiVo users who get it? If so, why?


No all users of this Sony box get the problem. Its just that its only a big deal for Tivo users because it screws up your whole recording of that program.

Other people only use their Sony Freeview box to watch live tv so they just change up and down a channel to get rid of the annoying screen.

I suppose it may be an issue for those who do timed VCR recordings from their Sony box on BBC Three, BBC Four, CBeebies or CBBC (and yes those with kids have been known to record the last two) but just how much recording to a VCR or a DVR Recorder do mots people actually do in the real world?


----------



## Anndra

Pete77 said:


> No all users of this Sony box get the problem. Its just that its only a big deal for Tivo users because it screws up your whole recording of that program.


...which is why I got rid of mine, to much of a pain in the end(!) I bought the wharfedale mentioned earlier in this forum. It's not made by Wharfedale apparantly, Argos bought the rights to the Wharfedale name to give some of their products some kudos!

It has been really good, I don't think the picture quality is _quite_ up to the Sony, and the sound drops out for half a second now and then, but in no way do I regret buying something for £60 less than the Sony that actually works!

FYI, my other Freeview tuner is actually the Elgato Hybrid TV USB stick on my Mac. That gives a really lovely picture.


----------



## rwtomkins

Judging by some angry remarks on the Digital Spy thread mentioned above, Sony has indeed failed to fix the red overlay problem. It just beggars belief that they can't produce a box that works properly when other companies can do it at a fraction of the price. I think I'll phone them and ask them what they're playing at, then send the box back.


----------



## Pete77

rwtomkins said:


> I think I'll phone them and ask them what they're playing at, then send the box back.


What's the betting their 0870 customer service robots will claim that you are the only customer who seems to have found this "design feature" to be a serious problem.

And no doubt they will keep you in a 20 minute 0870 queue just to have that dubious privilege. 

Why not email their Chairman and Chief Executive in Japan instead for free. At least that might actually influence a decision maker somewhere in the company:-

From www.connectotel.com/marcus/ceoemail.html

Sony Nobuyuki Idei, Chairman and Chief Executive [email protected]


----------



## rwtomkins

Pete77 said:


> And no doubt they will keep you in a 20 minute 0870 queue just to have that dubious privilege.
> 
> Why not email their Chairman and Chief Executive in Japan instead for free. At least that might actually influence a decision maker somewhere in the company:-
> 
> From www.connectotel.com/marcus/ceoemail.html
> 
> Sony Nobuyuki Idei, Chairman and Chief Executive [email protected]


Good idea, Pete77, but that list is a bit out of date. The chairman and CEO of Sony Corporation is now Sir Howard Stringer, a native of Cardiff. Any Welsh speakers out there care to give him a piece of their mind?


----------



## EdGillett

Well, the Philips STB got the boot.

Why? Picture quality was great, but the software update at whatever time of the morning it was just ruined a recording when it changed to channel 1 immediately after completing its scan for software updates. 
My wife was not impressed that her late night repeat showing of a movie cut out half way through and got replaced by football!!!

Anyway - decided to give the Labgear SetPal box a go with the single set booster in my flat - what do you know - crystal pictures and decent reception on everything! Most impressed. For good measure I also rewired the main aerial socket in the lounge - hopefully did some good as well.

So - will see how the SetPal performs (Still on build_59 I believe - chances of getting an update? slim ...). I'd quite like the software update which allows you to disable MHEG etc, but it'll be fine for now. Changes channels quicker than the Philips by the looks of it too.

Oh, at thut buzz from the Philips STB is noticeably gone now - seems it was bugging me more than I realised. The SetPal is thankfully silent thus far.


----------



## EdGillett

Unlike the SetPal, there didn't seem to be any option for turning off the software update. Donno if there was an engineering menu for the Philips? Quick google couldn't find one.

I'll be going into the engineering menus tonight to turn it off from the SetPal now I remember.

The only danger of that of course is that I'm bound to miss the next time it gets broadcast in 6 months!

Where can you find out when an update is due? (If ever on this old SetPal!) - is this the best we can expect: http://www.dtg.org.uk/retailer/download_schedule.pl


----------



## EdGillett

And I came back today to find that the SetPal has had really bad pixellated breakups on all channels that tivo recorded today. 

Pulled the plug and plugged it back in to reveal another issue with this STB - no auto power on after a power cut 

When I did press the power button on the remote, picture came back up fine, so evidently an STB issue, as opposed to a signal issue 

It's signal strength hasn't been good over the last few days. Does seem to deteriorate - loud sound pops and pixelating breakups intermittently.

So - onto the next STB! (and having to dismantle the massive tv unit ... again) 

Think I will give the Wharfdale a go from Argos - seems to be receiving favourable reviews (and it's on special @ Argos at the minute - £29.99). Unfortunately they also seem to be completely out of stock too currently!

Any experience with the Wharfdale with Tivo? Can you disable software updates and any associated channel changes? MHEG disable?


----------



## Pete77

EdGillett said:


> Pulled the plug and plugged it back in to reveal another issue with this STB - no auto power on after a power cut


Doesn't need to be an auto power on after a power cut so long as the box will turn on from Standby with the remote just by entering a channel number without pressing the On button first.

My old Philips OnDigital box didn't have an auto power on after power off but if the power went off it would also reboot the Tivo and when the Tivo came back up it would try to resume the recording from where it had left off but only after first sending out the channel number for that channel number again. The sending of the channel digits would wake up my Philips box from Standby and turn it on with the channel number sent.


----------



## AMc

Pete77 - how did you find Tivo with a Philips OnDigital box? Can it cope? Is it reliable?

We're about to move out to the sticks so Telewest will go and I'm looking to give Tivo Freeview (so long Discovery Home and Leisure and FX). I could get Sky, but I hate them and their owner too much 

I have my old Philips OD box in the bedroom still working OK - does it make a fair companion or should I start trying to find a suitable new box?


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> Pete77 - how did you find Tivo with a Philips OnDigital box? Can it cope? Is it reliable?
> 
> We're about to move out to the sticks so Telewest will go and I'm looking to give Tivo Freeview (so long Discovery Home and Leisure and FX). I could get Sky, but I hate them and their owner too much
> 
> I have my old Philips OD box in the bedroom still working OK - does it make a fair companion or should I start trying to find a suitable new box?


I used my Philips DTX 6370 OnDigital box with my Tivo for over two years after I first got Tivo until we finally got a Sky communal dish system installed here in the Spring last year. With the last release of the OnDigital software it was extremely reliable and almost never crashed even though in thefirst year of it and OnDigital's life in 1999 it crashed all the time due to the shocking nature of the Mk1 software on the box. I had to a mess around a bit with the RF code settings but finally found some (involving something with the leading zeros and the enter button but can't remember what now) that seemed to work. Channel change on the Philips was rather slow but that was irrelevant when using it with the Tivo.

However you may find that where you are out in The Sticks you can't get all the Freeview channels or at least you can't do so without a professional aerial upgrade which are often far more expensive (like £200 plus) than a Sky dish and box if the aerial's up on the top of the roof ridge or chimney stack.

Why not get your own back on the Murdochs (Rupert and James) by ordering a minimum 2 Mix package and installation at £15 per month with the first 3 months at half price and also ordering it via the www.quidco.co.uk website who give you £50 cashback (the commission that would normally go to Comet or Currys if you ordered through them) although with a one off £10 membership fee for joining what is an exceptionally good cashback commission rebating site.

Should cost you £117.50 in total after the net £40 Cashback and then at the end of Year 1 desubscribe and you have a working Freesat system that can also resubscribe if you ever need pay tv channels for a month and also gets free movie channels like Thriller Channel, The Horror Channel, TrueMovies 1 and 2 and news channels like CNN and Euronews that are not available on Freeview. Film4 is also free on a desubbed Sky box too. Only E4 and More4 are free on Freeview but not Sky Freesat but that they are sure to go free on the Sky platform before long (especially judging from Film 4 which is broadcast totally in the clear).


----------



## The Bear

EdGillett said:


> Think I will give the Wharfdale a go from Argos - seems to be receiving favourable reviews (and it's on special @ Argos at the minute - £29.99). Unfortunately they also seem to be completely out of stock too currently!
> 
> Any experience with the Wharfdale with Tivo? Can you disable software updates and any associated channel changes? MHEG disable?





The Bear said:


> The Wharfdale box has been very good so far. Nice pic quality (Much better than my old Sagem) and very quick channel changes, even through the Tivo IR. Well pleased with it for only £29.99.


You can indeed disable the auto-update via the 'configuration' menu. I don't think it auto-updates the channel changes. It certainly didn't during the last recent reshuffle of channel numbers, I had to manually rescan to renumber them.

No MHEG disable as far as I can see.


----------



## gadgetgaz

Can someone tell me what the new sony software version is please?
I don't know whether mine updated itself although I have noticed that all the guide data vanished and was replaced with "No information" in every slot.
After reading that there may have been an update I powered the box down and on again. Now all the guide data is back.
I will have to wait for a BBC3 recording to tell if the stupid blank screen thingy has disappeared.
Thanks


----------



## Pete77

gadgetgaz said:


> I will have to wait for a BBC3 recording to tell if the stupid blank screen thingy has disappeared.


No need to wait for a BBC3 recording as its widely reported that "the stupid blank screen thingy" problem has not yet been eliminated.


----------



## AMc

Freeview.co.uk says the postcode is OK. The TV aerial is readily accessible and I've fitted my own aerial, masthead amp, diplexers etc. here so I can do the 'professional install' myself for about £50 if needs be.

Glad to hear that the Old OnDigital box should work OK. Mine is a DTX6371 apparently and slightly surprisingly has "Made in Britain" on the bottom.

I expect I'll look at audio and video for the whole house once we're in for a while but it's nice to know I can get Tivo up and running.



Pete77 said:


> Only E4 and More4 are free on Freeview but not Sky Freesat but that they are sure to go free on the Sky platform before long (especially judging from Film 4 which is broadcast totally in the clear).


Unfortunately that's a deal breaker until they get to the end of their encryption deal with Sky but maybe they'll be out of contract by the time I get to that.


----------



## AMc

Other people researching Freeview boxes may find this helpful, but take it with a pinch of salt as reviews complementing boxes on auto updating software are exactly what most of us don't want!
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/


----------



## Anndra

The Bear said:


> You can indeed disable the auto-update via the 'configuration' menu. I don't think it auto-updates the channel changes. It certainly didn't during the last recent reshuffle of channel numbers, I had to manually rescan to renumber them.
> 
> No MHEG disable as far as I can see.


I haven't disabled the auto update, and I have had no problems so far. I manually retuned also.


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> Other people researching Freeview boxes may find this helpful, but take it with a pinch of salt as reviews complementing boxes on auto updating software are exactly what most of us don't want!
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/


Auto Updating is fine so long as the box reboots itself and goes back into normal running mode once the auto update is complete. The problem is that many boxes want you to manually press keys to install the update and return them to normal operating mode and it is those that you want to avoid.

Many manufacturers only transmit their software update every 6 or 12 months so if you don't have auto update you will miss it altogether.

Assuming a box can restart itself after an auto update and it only checks for updates at say 4am then just how often are you going to be recording something at that time of day?


----------



## Ian_m

Also you don't want the boxes to start scanning half way through a programme as I have had many a Grand Prix and Open Uni programme ruined by my SetPal box scanning for SW updates in the middle of the night.

Mind you that was before one of the latest updates where you can turn the scanning off, turn MHEG off (no red buttons) and set power up channel so the box just produces a picture and does nothing else.


----------



## DamoUK

I have a Maxim which I bought a couple of years ago without knowing a great deal abaout anything  

That said It performs very well - good picture, never had it freeze or reboot. Interface is the only thing that lets it down a bit.

Damien


----------



## katman

DamoUK said:


> Interface is the only thing that lets it down a bit.


I have to buy a Freeview box for my Mum as she now wants digital TV. Everywhere I have looked all the Freeview boxes are just piled up ready to sell. There doesnt seem to be anywhere round here where they actually have live boxes on display so that I can check how easy it is to operate.

Any recommendations for a extremely easy to use basic freeeview box gratefully received as my Mum is 73 and gets confused quite easily.

Thanks

Keith


----------



## Pete77

katman said:


> Any recommendations for a extremely easy to use basic freeeview box gratefully received as my Mum is 73 and gets confused quite easily.


Loads of boxes reviewed with star ratings at:-

www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/

For a cheap but very reliable box with no crashing the Wharfedale is widely considered to be the best bet.


----------



## The Bear

The Wharfdale is very simple to use.


----------



## katman

Thanks Guys. Will take a look.


----------



## AMc

We've moved and I've fitted a new aerial, masthead amp and replaced the cabling which has made a big difference but I'm still seeing some break up with my old OnDigital Philips box.

Can't find any SetPal boxes on "The Bay".

Any further recommendations for poor signal areas? I'm especially interested in long term opinions of the Wharfedale DV832B paired with Tivo as it's only £30 at Argos.
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5320503.htm


----------



## Swiftycollins

I have had Sagem (Rotten)Pace DTVA Freeview Box - Set Top Box good for a couple of months then just would not change channels etc 
I am now on the warfdale which is brilliant. Slight problem updates nicely in the midldle of the night but while it udates the screen goes blank so a couple of recordings have missing bits .
but hey a small price to pay


----------



## Anndra

Mine's missed a couple of channel changes, but that's VERY rare, and I suspect t may be more to do with it being a bit fussy on wand placement.


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> I'm especially interested in long term opinions of the Wharfedale DV832B paired with Tivo as it's only £30 at Argos.
> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5320503.htm


See www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/ as per Post 97 of this thread three above. 

The newer Wharefdale DV832BN is reported as being even more stable by the two people who have so far reviewed it.


----------



## Pete77

A new slightly revised version of the Wharfedale box with improved software and components has just been released. Make sure you get the new one and not the old one when buying at Wharfedale or wherever.

See www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/ for reviews of the new and old Wharfedales and all other current Freeview boxes.


----------



## AMc

AMc said:


> Other people researching Freeview boxes may find this helpful, but take it with a pinch of salt as reviews complementing boxes on auto updating software are exactly what most of us don't want!
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/


Pete77 - I was aware of that link  but as I mentioned before a good box for live viewing isn't always best suited to Tivo. For example the Sony VTX-D800U gets 5/5 despite a well known problem with CBEEBIES/BBC3 which would make it useless for a Tivo owner.
As most people seem to be happy with the Wharfedale from Argos I'll probably give that a try.


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> Pete77 - I was aware of that link  but as I mentioned before a good box for live viewing isn't always best suited to Tivo. For example the Sony VTX-D800U gets 5/5 despite a well known problem with CBEEBIES/BBC3 which would make it useless for a Tivo owner. As most people seem to be happy with the Wharfedale from Argos I'll probably give that a try.


I did think of mentioning that the Sony box was not suitable for Tivo due to its bug ridden software that makes reliable recording on BBC Three and BBC Four impossible.

Sony owners like to pat themselves on the back over their brilliant choice of box but I think the fact that so many owners of the unglamorous Wharfedale box have felt moved to complement it is caused by the fact that they didn't expect such a cheap product to be so good.

Boxes to avoid are those that do not boot back up to the channel they were last on after a power failure or where the software update facility leaves a message on screen that has to be answered or that regularly crash. The reviews don't tend to cover all those points so my only advice can be to buy from a retailer that will let you return the box without quibble in the first 14 or 28 days and then take it back if it doesn't perform up to expectations. Avoid stores that refuse to accept Freeview box returns or charge a "restocking fee" at all costs.


----------



## Swiftycollins

I Use the Warfdale with the fron Ir Blaster,,, no problems.. So far


----------



## Pete77

Swiftycollins said:


> I Use the Warfdale with the fron Ir Blaster,,, no problems.. So far


You can get the Tivo IR leads from Tivo Customer Services for free if you need another set. Just give them a call like I did.

If the Wharfedale box is totally reliable with just the IR Blaster then it is an even more reliable box than people here have previously given it credit for as no other Freeview box seems to be totally reliable with just the IR blaster and without using the IR leads.


----------



## AMc

Well I now have a Wharfedale DV832BN(2) under the TV on top of the Tivo.
Front blaster seems to be doing the trick but as it's only made a few test changes that isn't long enough to judge  As all my kit lives in a glass fronted cabinet I get good results bouncing IR off the inside of the door, only time will tell if this is 100% reliable.

The manual says the box will check for updates at 3am every day. You can turn this off by going "Menu>Configuration>Receiver Upgrade", press "Select" and use the arrow button to toggle "Automatic Download" to "Disabled". You can also manually search for updates on that screen.
Schedule for updates here
http://www.dtg.org.uk/retailer/download_schedule.pl

It still needs a 10dB masthead amp and a supplementary booster to pick up the channels on UHF53 from Tacolneston and there is a touch of stuttering. http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=TM131958 Says the signal from here is 'very low' which figures.

I'll post again after a bit to report back on how reliable the box is after a couple of weeks.


----------



## AMc

Oh and the front panel shows "P005" when you're on Five which will amuse my 3 year old in a couple of years time - and is actually quite descriptive of most of what they show too


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> The manual says the box will check for updates at 3am every day. You can turn this off by going "Menu>Configuration>Receiver Upgrade", press "Select" and use the arrow button to toggle "Automatic Download" to "Disabled". You can also manually search for updates on that screen.
> Schedule for updates here
> http://www.dtg.org.uk/retailer/download_schedule.pl


You might want to see what harm the box checking for updates at 3am actually does to a recording in practice? If it just loses you a minute or two of rare recording at this time of day and then returns to the original channel with no on screen message or Yes/No box remaining re installing the update it might be worth living with as managing to catch those once a year updates manually is damn hard to do in practice. Of course it may behave differently on the rare occasion that it finds an update to download and install compared to all those endless 3ams when it does not find one.



> It still needs a 10dB masthead amp and a supplementary booster to pick up the channels on UHF53 from Tacolneston and there is a touch of stuttering. http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=TM131958 Says the signal from here is 'very low' which figures.


When do you boys in East Anglia get digital switchover? I bet its before us South Eastern/London people in 2012?


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> Oh and the front panel shows "P005" when you're on Five which will amuse my 3 year old in a couple of years time - and is actually quite descriptive of most of what they show too


You mean it has a channel number display on the box too?  :up:

Freeview Boxes that have one of those have been as rare as Hens Teeth ever since the demise of OnDigital and the unwillingness of manufacturers to spend the few extra pence on an LED that the minimum Freeview spec no longer said that they have to provide.


----------



## AMc

We get switched over in June 2011 apparently.
http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=TM131958

Yes, the box has a channel display which serves as a clock in standby. It's a lovely old fashioned red LED display too. Probably a bit bright for a bedroom.


----------



## katman

AMc said:


> We get switched over in June 2011 apparently.
> http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=TM131958


At which point we may need a new aerial as two of the Muxes are moving out of Group C/D. Probably best to get an aerial upgrade BEFORE everyone realises that they will also need a new aerial and the companies have us by the short and curlies !!!

According to all the Freeview postcode checkers I cant receive Freeview.

My 3 boxes dont appear to know that. 
Pace OnDigital
Ferguson (£5 from a car boot)
Sagem

Reception can be iffy at times though. I tend only to use Freeview for Radio as there is very little on there that interests me.

Keith (in central Great Yarmouth)


----------



## AMc

Indeed, those UK Free TV links are quite interesting. I bought a wide band aerial as I noticed a proper grouped one wouldn't work after the switch off.


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> Yes, the box has a channel display which serves as a clock in standby. It's a lovely old fashioned red LED display too. Probably a bit bright for a bedroom.


That Wharfedale box does sound something of a miraculous product at the price its sold at.


----------



## Tivo_noob

Can anyone explain the bugs with the Sony VTX D800u box please, i have just been given one of these and i thought they were supposed to be great!


----------



## AMc

I don't own one but what I read is it can get confused by the timeshared channels - primarily CBEEBIES and CBBC with BBC3 and BBC4. You get left with a red screen instead of your programme even though it is playing. Watching live you just flick channels but Tivo can't do that and records the message.

A search on Sony came up with lots of stuff but this seems the most descriptive, the last I read Sony updated their software but failed to cure the problem
http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=214189

It seems Gary one of the moderators has one, perhaps he will shed more light.

FWIW the wharfedale is going strong so far.


----------



## Tivo_noob

AMc said:


> I don't own one but what I read is it can get confused by the timeshared channels - primarily CBEEBIES and CBBC with BBC3 and BBC4. You get left with a red screen instead of your programme even though it is playing. Watching live you just flick channels but Tivo can't do that and records the message.
> 
> A search on Sony came up with lots of stuff but this seems the most descriptive, the last I read Sony updated their software but failed to cure the problem
> http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=214189
> 
> It seems Gary one of the moderators has one, perhaps he will shed more light.
> 
> FWIW the wharfedale is going strong so far.


Thanks i did a search on the forums and noticed Gary had one, i await his reply.


----------



## AMc

No problem as my Tivo spends half its life recording suggestions from CBEEBIES for my 3 year old it was a deal breaker for me, hopefully Sony have managed to sort it out by now.


----------



## Tivo_noob

AMc said:


> No problem as my Tivo spends half its life recording suggestions from CBEEBIES for my 3 year old it was a deal breaker for me, hopefully Sony have managed to sort it out by now.


Yeah likewise, could i not just set channels i recieve to just cbeebies and not bbc3 or bbc4 and get rid of the problem, or is it something else that i'm not understanding?


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Yeah likewise, could i not just set channels i recieve to just cbeebies and not bbc3 or bbc4 and get rid of the problem, or is it something else that i'm not understanding?


Then you would potentially get the off air text screens cutting over your CBBC or CBeebies recordings. Its the same problem in reverse. Even if you take BBC3 or BBC4 out of your Channels I Receive list this problem will still happen whenever CBeebies or CBBC go off air and then come back on air.

Just avoid the Sony box. Its not suitable for Tivo use.


----------



## AMc

As I've had my Wharfedale DV832BN(2) for almost a month now and I've not noticed any missed changes etc. I thought I'd post back a recommendation for it. It's substantially better at dealing with my poor signal and interference than the 6 year old Philips OnDigital box it replaced, picture seems fractionally sharper too - well worth £30 at Argos.


----------



## Tivo_noob

AMc said:


> As I've had my Wharfedale DV832BN(2) for almost a month now and I've not noticed any missed changes etc. I thought I'd post back a recommendation for it. It's substantially better at dealing with my poor signal and interference than the 6 year old Philips OnDigital box it replaced, picture seems fractionally sharper too - well worth £30 at Argos.


Whats the difference between the DV832BN and the DV832B?


----------



## AMc

Mine says "Wharfedale DV832BN(2)" on the box even though the Argos order was for a Wharfedale DV832B.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/ 
Seems to suggest it's a revised model with some minor bug fixes. I doubt it's more than an updated firmware/new production run but who knows for sure?


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> Mine says "Wharfedale DV832BN(2)" on the box even though the Argos order was for a Wharfedale DV832B.
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/terrestrial/reviews/
> Seems to suggest it's a revised model with some minor bug fixes. I doubt it's more than an updated firmware/new production run but who knows for sure?


It could have new hardware (new circuit board with different chips) inside too so it doesn't seem worth risking getting an 832B when the 832BN is now available at the same price.

As there are still going to be 832Bs knocking about the only way to ensure this is by buying one at an Argos store and examining it at the counter (they will usually open boxes) before you buy it.

The BN is reported to be a lot faster on channel changes than the B variant. This could indeed be down to better hardware.


----------



## AMc

Mine says "Wharfedale DV832BN(2)" *on the box* as in the *outer packaging* - no need to open everything up.


----------



## rgmward

Following the suggestions in this list, i have picked up a setpal box on ebay.

the main reason for changing was that my old panasonic box occasionally (weekly) crashed, and if there was a powercut, the panasonic box did not turn itself back on automatically, or with a change of channel.

the new setpal box does not crash (4 months), and returns to the previous state when the power is resumed. however, my significant issue is that when the power is resumed, even after a 3 second break, the box has lost all it;s channels, and a full rescan is required. it also can not pick up a few channels - E4+1, Sky3 etc. 

would the wharfdale resolve these problems? does it auto power-on?

also, how hot does the wharfdale operate? the setpal one seems to get fairly hot.

thanks


----------



## rgmward

Pete77 said:


> As there are still going to be 832Bs knocking about the only way to ensure this is by buying one at an Argos store and examining it at the counter (they will usually open boxes) before you buy it.


just to point out, from the argos website, for some reason this is excluded from the 16 money back guarantee!



argos said:


> Please note that this product is excluded from our 16-Day Money Back Guarantee. This does not affect your statutory rights.


----------



## Pete77

rgmward said:


> just to point out, from the argos website, for some reason this is excluded from the 16 money back guarantee!


Because they know they might get a lot of returns on Freeview boxes from people just wanting to test whether they can get a signal etc.

All the more reason to inspect the box at the collection counter to make sure it is the correct BN model before you hand over your credit card.


----------



## Pete77

rgmward said:


> the new setpal box does not crash (4 months), and returns to the previous state when the power is resumed. however, my significant issue is that when the power is resumed, even after a 3 second break, the box has lost all it;s channels, and a full rescan is required. it also can not pick up a few channels - E4+1, Sky3 etc.


My 8 year old Philips DTX 6370 (now located at my mother's house) comes back up into Standby mode after a power outage so unfortunately that recording is lost. However the next channel change command at the end of that recording by the Tivo brings the box back on to that channel number so all subsequent recordings continue normally. It does not rescan channels or update the software of its own volition.

My BT Netgem IPlayer+ (currently used with my Tivo) resumes exactly where it left off on the same channel number following a power outage ending and also does not load software upgrades or rescan channels of its own accord.

Not sure about the Wharfedale as I haven't used one. You could get a UPS of course to protect against power cuts but most of them that are affordable only last for 20 minutes or so with a Tivo and STB and some power cuts can be an hour or two...........


----------



## Ovey

Anyone know where I can get a Wharfedale STB from?


----------



## Pete77

Ovey said:


> Anyone know where I can get a Wharfedale STB from?


From Argos.


----------



## Ovey

Pete77 said:


> From Argos.


Ha Ha. I'll keep an eye out for when they're back in stock


----------



## Pete77

Ovey said:


> Ha Ha. I'll keep an eye out for when they're back in stock


Website seems to have stock although only quoted as being 832B. However that could just be because they haven't update the web page to the BN model.


----------



## Ovey

Pete77 said:


> Website seems to have stock although only quoted as being 832B. However that could just be because they haven't update the web page to the BN model.


Sorry, I must be looking in the wrong place. All I see on Argos is "Out of stock for home delivery" and no stores I have checked have any to reserve.


----------



## Tivo_noob

Ovey said:


> Sorry, I must be looking in the wrong place. All I see on Argos is "Out of stock for home delivery" and no stores I have checked have any to reserve.


Yes that is also the same for me!


----------



## Pete77

Ovey said:


> Sorry, I must be looking in the wrong place. All I see on Argos is "Out of stock for home delivery" and no stores I have checked have any to reserve.


Sorry does seem to be out of stock now I check the Argos site.


----------



## Ovey

Pete77 said:


> Sorry does seem to be out of stock now I check the Argos site.


There as some stores with stock now (also home delivery available) so I have picked one up today (DV832BN(2)) and I'll let you know of any issues.

Share and Enjoy!


----------



## Ovey

Wharfedale STB setup and running in just a few minutes. Very simple and an excellent picture. 

TiVo had no problems changing channels (using the wand) and I've had successful recordings so far. 

The big LED display is certainly a reassurance.


----------



## gadgetgaz

Has anyone had any audio issues with the Wharfedale? I get the odd digital noise every now and then that was never there with my Sony box.


----------



## dponsford

AMc said:


> I don't own one but what I read is it can get confused by the timeshared channels - primarily CBEEBIES and CBBC with BBC3 and BBC4. You get left with a red screen instead of your programme even though it is playing. Watching live you just flick channels but Tivo can't do that and records the message.
> 
> A search on Sony came up with lots of stuff but this seems the most descriptive, the last I read Sony updated their software but failed to cure the problem
> http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=214189
> 
> It seems Gary one of the moderators has one, perhaps he will shed more light.
> 
> FWIW the wharfedale is going strong so far.


I own one and I have to say that other than this minor irritation (Don't record much from these channels) it is a great STB.

I originally purchased it as I was running on a boosted indoor aerial and my previous Pioneer STB used to be effected by interference from text messages and motor bikes/scooters going past the house.

I switched to the Sony and never looked back. The interference hardly ever occurred and it seemed to handle the low quality signal far better.


----------



## AMc

gadgetgaz said:


> Has anyone had any audio issues with the Wharfedale? I get the odd digital noise every now and then that was never there with my Sony box.


 No sign of that with my box. When I get interference the sound drops and less frequently parts of the picture pixelate. No nasty noises though...on the DV832BN(2) version that is.


----------



## gadgetgaz

Same version here. I am pretty sure it's not the wharfedale now. It is the scart socket on my tivo that is faulty.


----------



## achookang

Just a quick update for anyone still looking for a Wharfedale. The Argos's in Basildon now have them in (actually had for a few days) and I picked one up today. It is still listed on the website and catalogue as the DV832B but actually it is the DV832BN(2).

The set up with the Tivo was straightforward and everything seems to be working, no channel change problems using the IR blaster.

Anyone know if there is a setting to disable the digital graphics for recording (e.g. press red button etc.)

Thanks


----------



## b166er

As a matter of interest (I'll never be using freeview so it's just out of interest) how are you guys finding which IR code to use in TiVo to control these Freeview boxes? None of them existed when the TiVo OS was last changed. Is it trial and error going through all the codes, selecting the right manufacturer where possible ?


----------



## AMc

At Gary's Tivo Portal site http://www.tivoportal.co.uk/
Click on the link on the left "Supported STB's"

AFAIK supporting new STBs is fairly straight forward and new codes come with the daily download, it's the remote control codes that are stuck in 2000.


----------



## Pete77

b166er said:


> As a matter of interest (I'll never be using freeview so it's just out of interest) how are you guys finding which IR code to use in TiVo to control these Freeview boxes? None of them existed when the TiVo OS was last changed. Is it trial and error going through all the codes, selecting the right manufacturer where possible ?


The codes for new Freeview boxes are added to the set held in the Tivo database by people capturing them with a Pronto remote and sending them to Gary who sends them to Tivo to be sent out in the data with the daily call. They are then able to be selected in the Tivo setup options for set top boxes.

By contrast the codes in the Tivo remote are hard coded and not added to over time so eventually you end up having to use the remote supplied by your new tv manufacturer for volume control and on/off or you can buy an advanced learning remote like a Kameleon to cover both the Tivo remote and your television remote in one fell swoop.


----------



## blindlemon

..still waiting for somebody to bring back and try one of the new Series 3 glow-in-the-dark learning remotes from the States...


----------



## Pete77

blindlemon said:


> ..still waiting for somebody to bring back and try one of the new Series 3 glow-in-the-dark learning remotes from the States...


I thought you would be sure to have ordered one online and had it delivered by now. 

Assuming that it won't have the essential Aux and VCR buttons that my black Philips Tivo remote also lacks I don't think I shall be bothering.


----------



## greenkr

When my Daewoo DS608P died in December I bought a Wharfedale DV832BN(2) to replace it  for use with my Tivo. I have had two problems with audio with it. Firstly I would get a complete loss of sound for a second or two  at least once in each recording. Secondly the sound and picture would go out of sync once the box had been on for a few hours. Putting the box into standby and turning it back on would re-synchronise the sound and picture. When they came back into stock last week I exchanged it for another. The same problems are still occurring  and at one point I lost the sound completely until I put it into standby and then back on again. It looks as if Ill have to get a refund and try a different box  but I really like having the program display.


----------



## Pete77

Go to www.ebay.co.uk, type in the phrase iplayer+ and get one of those instead. No sound loss and very good with weak tv signals.


----------



## gadgetgaz

> When my Daewoo DS608P died in December I bought a Wharfedale DV832BN(2) to replace it  for use with my Tivo. I have had two problems with audio with it. Firstly I would get a complete loss of sound for a second or two  at least once in each recording.


I have now given up on the Wharfdale due to audio issues. The first lost audio on the left channel and its replacement lost audio competely, just for a second every now and then. I have had it replaced another twice and each one does the same to a greater or lesser extent.

I may wait a month or so to ensure the current batch are completely gone and give it another try.


----------



## ColinYounger

Sorry, a bit late on this thread



> Sony VTX-D800U


I've got one of these which I've hooked up to a TiVo that an associate declared dead because the HD died (aren't I evil  ). It seems to work fine with BBC3 for me, and I'm wondering what the problems are that I should expect. I searched and got thousands of results which all seemed irrelevant.

Betcha. Pete77 tells me. YMMV.


----------



## Pete77

ColinYounger said:


> I've got one of these which I've hooked up to a TiVo that an associate declared dead because the HD died (aren't I evil  ). It seems to work fine with BBC3 for me, and I'm wondering what the problems are that I should expect. I searched and got thousands of results which all seemed irrelevant.


No BBC Three or BBC Four timeshare issue on this box because its not a Sony at all but simply a Digifusion PVR rebadged as a Sony. So far as I know the Digifusions have a fairly good Freeview tuner but were thought to not be up to much as a PVR as this review confirms:-

www.reviewcentre.com/review231239.html


----------



## regdor

I hoped the Wharfedale sound dropout would have been fixed by now so i bought one from Argos about 4 weeks ago. Unfortunatley the sound problem happened with mine(about once every 2 hours the sound goes off for 2 seconds).Pity as the picture is very good. Anyway back for a refund.
I would buy the Humax as it seems to be the only "Quality build" box out there.
but i know it has a switch for radio so i could not record radio from the Tivo. That is you have to manually put the box in radio to listen(record) radio.
Can anyone confirm this? 
What is the Phillips 210 like? I do not want to buy old boxes from ebay.


----------



## AMc

Have you had any success with any other Freeview boxes on that aerial?

I get the odd stutter in sound on most channels but put it down to impulse interference.
2 seconds every 2 hours is pretty normal based on my poor Freeview experiences in 2 London and 1 Norfolk location with 2 different boxes.

Where I am now Five US and Five Life are particularly poor with some picture breakup too, but the signal is really weak, they use the less reliable modulation (QAM16 IIRC not 64). I have a masthead booster + a secondary booster just to get the Wharfedale to 50% signal  Almost everything else is 100% so I'm sure its the transmission not the box.


----------



## regdor

I have had a Phillips dtr500 for about 18 months and never had the sound dropout problem on that. I only want to replace it because it has a radio/tv switch and Tivo cannot switch to radio for recording, also it zooms the picture on the west wing and frasier (two of our favourite programs) which is annoying.
I have also had a digifusion fvrt200 on my aerial for about 8 weeks (repaired it for the in-laws, very dodgy discs after about 12 months usage). That did not drop sound either and had a great picture off air and much better than Tivo off record!! 
My reception is poor as i live in a dip that shades us from Emley Moor. I often have picture break up despite a high gain aerial and a mast head amplifier. 
I can live with picture breakup but the sound drops i cannot stand at all!

The Phillips box has a very bad press from other forums but i have found it reliable and the picture is good, the menu system is clumsy. 
The FVRT has been a nightmare product if you read the posts in digitlspy.

If only sky transmitted More4 ( west wing/ without a trace) for free i would stick with my sky free package and do without radio recording. I cancelled my sky sub because we did not watch much "sky" product.


----------



## Vish

An interesting solution if not a little hardcore?

http://www.tivoland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=238

(apologies if this break forum rules)


----------



## healeydave

If you don't need a modulator output (for a dual source cofiguration), I bought some cheap Echostar T-101-FTA boxes about a 18 months ago which work pretty well, never need resetting, never miss a channel change etc and are only the size of a DVD case & about 2 inches deep.

Digiboxes with a modulator output are a bit thin on the ground at the moment. The Humax F2-FOX T still have a good reputation.

I also like this Hauppage DEC 1100-t , this is also a small box and runs off a 12V adapter. Its ideal for a project like this


----------



## Vish

Yes I linked it Dave 

I think its a very nifty solution.


----------



## healeydave

You what'ed it?


----------



## Vish

I put the link in a post already  

Now if you could work on putting a second tivo motherboard in there and making it dual tuner, that would be great and I'll have one off ya


----------



## healeydave

Doh!, sorry, I didn't notice, in fact, you must have posted that whilst I was typing


----------



## healeydave

Vish said:


> Now if you could work on putting a second tivo motherboard in there and making it dual tuner, that would be great and I'll have one off ya


That's a bit difficult, so its probably better to have Two separate Dual Source Tivo's for more flexibility  you can always take it one step further and install the hack to allow you to be able stream recordings from each Tivo's Now Playing list


----------



## AMc

regdor - sorry then I don't think I can do more to help.
healydave - hats off for the modification! I assume you have to take the lid off if you need to use the freeview remote or can you bounce it around inside the case through the fan cover?


----------



## Xusia Of Delos

I've read through this thread with great interest, but alas, it's become a little too technical for me.

So may be someone could give me a straight forward answer to my question which is very similar to the thread title.

The facts:

We no longer have Sky, so TiVo is currently just recording via the roof aerial. 
We need a simple set top box with only one tuner.
Two SCART sockets would be nice.
It needs to work with TiVo with the minimal amount of hassle. 
I cannot emphasise the last point enough as this set up is for my wife!!!!!
A set top box that can be easily purchased, prefably from a high Street retailer would be nice.
The price is an issue as I'm currently (ahem) "between contracts" .

Any assistance would be very greatfully received.

Thanks

XoD


----------



## Pete77

Xusia Of Delos said:


> I've read through this thread with great interest, but alas, it's become a little too technical for me.


What happened to your Sky box and dish? Surely you are aware that if you desubscribe from Sky you can continue to use them for all the many FTA and FTV channels with your Tivo - why did you return to aerial only. Sky doesn't make you give back the box, dish or your viewing card when you desubscribe from their pay channels.

In my view an unsubscribed Sky box is a superior and more reliable Tivo source to a Freeview box.

The best of both worlds is a dual source unsubscibed Sky box and a Freeview box as currently FTN, UK History, UK Bright Ideas, The Hits and TMF are not available FTA on a Sky box but are on a Freeview box. There are many FTA channels on an unsubscribed Sky Digibox that are not available on Freeview though.

Your wife doesn't need to know about the technicalities as long as you set it up for her. She only needs to know the names of her favourite programs and the numbers of the channels she watches on the Tivo box.


----------



## AMc

Xusia Of Delos - Based on my experience the Wharfedale DV832BN(2) box is very reliable, cheap and easily available at Argos or online here
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5320503.htm

Mine has run almost completely without intervention for months, sitting on top of the TiVo using the front blaster (not the IR leads) code 20030 FAST under manufacturer Wharfdale.
It deals with the poor signal I have pretty well and is streets ahead of my older Philips OnDigital box and has better picture quality than my TeleWest cable STB managed.

Unfortunately not all units are the same and Freeview reception can vary a lot so what works well for one location may not work so well in another (see Regdor's comments).

At least returning things to Argos is generally straightforward.


----------



## Xusia Of Delos

I didn't desubscribe from Sky. It was disconected. I have had serious financial problems in the last year  

The Sky box it completely dead, showing a blue screen on every channel. It is therefore out of the equation.

This is why a Freeview box is required.


----------



## Pete77

Xusia Of Delos said:


> I didn't desubscribe from Sky. It was disconected. I have had serious financial problems in the last year
> 
> The Sky box it completely dead, showing a blue screen on every channel. It is therefore out of the equation.
> 
> This is why a Freeview box is required.


Did they remove the dish then? It should still work as long as you have a Sky box and a dish it is connected to. If they decactivated the viewing card you wouldn't get C4, Five, Five US, Five Life or Sky Three but would get everything else.


----------



## healeydave

AMc said:


> healydave - hats off for the modification! I assume you have to take the lid off if you need to use the freeview remote or can you bounce it around inside the case through the fan cover?


Well you can just slip the front cover off and fire the Freeview's remote in through the rectangle cut-out's. There is one rectangle right in-line with the Freeview board on the left but if you have a Cachecard installed, its likely to obscure this hold, so you can use the middle cutout instead 

If anyone doesn't know, the Tivo's aluminum front beizel comes off really easy with no tools required. Once you know how it comes off, its virtually as easy as opening a pull down flap, but even then, I have not needed to do it as the Freeview always comes on when the Tivo is powered up!

You can make out the cutouts on the front of the case from this picture. These are the holes where the front beizel clips in:


----------



## regdor

Thanks for inputs folks.
Well Vish that is a very neat solution but a bit too far out for me.
Browsing the Curry's shop I had a chat to a helpful chap who opened up a few boxes for me. The Philips 210 has a radio button as does the humax so both out for easy radio recording. Having had good picture from father-in-laws Digifusion i thought i would risk the poor reputation their pvrs have and give their freeview box a go.
I think it was a 103 , anyway a neat little box. You will note the past tense as it did not last 24 hrs. The unit is very simple not much to tweak and setup was a doddle. Got about 80 services or so.
The picture seemed to have a strange blue washed out look and twice during the first evening the box locked up on channel changes that needed a power down.

So back it went and i am now back with the old Phillips box that at least gives a decent if sometimes odd shaped picture.
I will browse the digital spy forum for other candidates and report back if i find a good one. I would say the Wharfedale was fine apart from the sound problem. It may of course be a location problem, i do not understand the technical aspects of why one box may drop sound because of reception problems and others do not. So it may be a good buy for others. 
I did notice that Curry's have a box for £19.95 if someone wants a real cheapy. The assistant said he had bought one and it was very good.


----------



## AMc

FWIW the Wharfedale DV832BN(2) is now down to £25 at Argos
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5320503.htm


----------



## RichardJH

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5214542#post5214542

Posts 2 & 5


----------



## mikerr

Had a quick look, and gary's list of freeview boxes is a bit out of date now,

Here's a summary - freeview boxes in stock, with buy links and tivo codes:

Model / Price / IR Code

Digifusion FRT100  £9.99 Fusion 20040 
Phillips DTR210  £24.99 Phillips 20053 
Bush DFTA 11 £23.99 Logik 20030 (Also sold as the Digilogik DSTB1000)
 Wharfdale DV832B  £24.99 Wharfdale 20030

You can buy all of those today.


----------



## qIroS

I just picked up a Phillips DTR210, hoping it will work but the fact that it's not on gary's list, and you have it listed with a ? makes me jittery.

I'll get it tried tonight and maybe I can turn that ? into a yes or no.


----------



## mikerr

The phillips is in this thread, post #45 here

EdGillet doesn't mention the code, that's why I guessed it was the same as my older phillips box and put a ? there


----------



## qIroS

I used 20053 on medium and it worked.


----------



## mikerr

Great, I've updated my post above.


----------



## Pete77

mikerr said:


> Model / Price / IR Code
> Digifusion FRT100  £9.99 Fusion 20040


£11.74 Including VAT - not to mention delivery on top of several quid no doubt. Having said that they were about £29.99 the last time I saw them in a shop but then those weren't "refurbished".

Mike for web only retailers wouldn't a set of prices that included the delivery possibly be even more useful? After all one has to pay the delivery unless one was also going to buy something else from that retailer anyway.


----------



## mikerr

Feel free to re-post the entire table of freeview boxes with p&p included if you wish 
They are all around a fiver postage.

..or even find some more verified available boxes?


----------



## beastman

mikerr said:


> Had a quick look, and gary's list of freeview boxes is a bit out of date now,
> 
> Here's a summary - freeview boxes in stock, with buy links and tivo codes:
> 
> Model / Price / IR Code
> 
> Digifusion FRT100  £9.99 Fusion 20040
> Phillips DTR210  £24.99 Phillips 20053
> Bush DFTA 11 £23.99 Logik 20030 (Also sold as the Digilogik DSTB1000)
> Wharfdale DV832B  £24.99 Wharfdale 20030
> 
> You can buy all of those today.


Doesn't the FRT100 switch off at 3am anymore?
If not I might get one of these.


----------



## verses

Just spotted this;
http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,,2157737,00.html
Has anyone tried one and know what it's compatibility with TiVo is like?

My stb is dying and it'd be good to replace it for minimal outlay 

Cheers,

Ian


----------



## Pete77

verses said:


> Just spotted this;
> http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,,2157737,00.html
> Has anyone tried one and know what it's compatibility with TiVo is like?
> 
> My stb is dying and it'd be good to replace it for minimal outlay
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ian


Surely for a tenner its bound to be a heap of junk. And have you ever heard of Techwood before.

Is it really worth saving £25 compared to the cost of a decent Freeview STB when you take into account the cost of your annual BBC licence fee??

Surely the real current obstacle to the remaining UK population getting a Freeview box is not the price of a box but their complete technophobia and/or the fact that many of these people don't watch much television and/or don't have very cosmopolitan viewing tastes.


----------



## Pete77

A google search for the words "Techwood" and "crap" produces a rather alarming number of hits.


----------



## verses

I agree that all the signs point to the fact that it's likely to be a wee bit naff, but I was hoping for some first-hand experience just to confirm/refute it.

I'd originally been looking at the Phillips DTR210 and I think that's still likely to be the one I go for.

Ian


----------



## Pete77

verses said:


> I agree that all the signs point to the fact that it's likely to be a wee bit naff, but I was hoping for some first-hand experience just to confirm/refute it.
> 
> I'd originally been looking at the Phillips DTR210 and I think that's still likely to be the one I go for.


Well its definitely not supported by Tivo at present unless it turns out to have the same insides as another cheap supported Freeview box.

Don't Tesco let you take products back for 14 days no questions asked? Or do they not allow this for Freeview boxes?


----------



## einstein

so what replacement Freeview box should I buy if my Panasonic STB no longer works with Tivo.

It seems, I keep having to replace STBs, I had original OnDigital Nokia Mediamasters, that I had to change because the interactive stuff kept crashing the boxes, know my little Panasonic boxes don't work with Tivo anymore.....

should I purchase aging Daewoo boxes from eBay, with possibly old firmware, that's not going to be updated over the air anymore, and purchase something current (missed out on the £10 Techwood tesco deal - but if there's no Tivo support, would have gone back to Tescos?)

Any comments, on current STBs?


----------



## RichardJH

see post 176 in this thread it pretty well answers all your questions


----------



## Pete77

einstein said:


> my little Panasonic boxes don't work with Tivo anymore.....


What is stopping it from still working with Tivo? Does it keep shutting off in the middle of the night due to a software update check? Have you checked the menus to see if you can disable auto software updating or channel scanning?



> should I purchase aging Daewoo boxes from eBay, with possibly old firmware, that's not going to be updated over the air anymore, and purchase something current (missed out on the £10 Techwood tesco deal - but if there's no Tivo support, would have gone back to Tescos?)
> 
> Any comments, on current STBs?


See the post on the previous page of this thread by mikerr/

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5417667&&#post5417667

Wharfedale DV832BN from Argos seems to be most people's favourite for Tivo use.

Or for a more reliable solution with more channels for only £75 installed consider Sky Pay Once Watch Forever with more channels and then no more nonsense with software updates that turn your box off. Sky software updates and new channel additions happen in the background and the box does not get left in useless mode.

See www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/editorial/Sky+Pay+Once+Watch+Forever

Also have you considered using a simple mains timer with your Panasonic box and shutting it off for 2 minutes at every day at 5pm and scheduling a recording at say 5.20am for 5 minutes daily to ensure it always starts back up in to normal non software updating mode?


----------



## einstein

Pete77 said:


> What is stopping it from still working with Tivo? Does it keep shutting off in the middle of the night due to a software update check? Have you checked the menus to see if you can disable auto software updating or channel scanning?


Tivo has stopped switching channels on the Panasonic Box! Three Tivos with three Panasonic STBs in different rooms, and all have stopped working in the last 3 days


----------



## Pete77

einstein said:


> Tivo has stopped switching channels on the Panasonic Box! Three Tivos with three Panasonic STBs in different rooms, and all have stopped working in the last 3 days


Must be something blocking the IR frequency Tivo uses.


----------



## George

Can anyone recommend the best box for use in a poor signal area that requires no intervention (bad memories of an old Grundig that kept turning itself off)? My early Setpal box has bitten the dust......

Cheers

George


----------



## Pete77

George said:


> Can anyone recommend the best box for use in a poor signal area that requires no intervention (bad memories of an old Grundig that kept turning itself off)? My early Setpal box has bitten the dust......
> 
> Cheers
> 
> George


Wharfedale 832BN from Argos seems to be regulalrly mentioned on here as being suitable.


----------



## AMc

As an owner I can vouch for the Wharfedale 832BN(2). Way better than the Philips OnDigital box it replaced. I need a masthead amplifier and a booster but it's picture is pretty stable. I suffer from the odd sound drop out which others have mentioned in better signal areas so I'm not sure if the box loses sound or the signal drops a tiny bit and the picture is still OK.
As far as reliability is concerned it has been in continous operation without a restart for a year with only 2 occassions when the sound cut out. A channel up/down fixed that in both instances and I've only lost a single recording in all that time.

Cheap and effective, there may be better out there but it's good enough for me.


----------



## Ashley

George said:


> My early Setpal box has bitten the dust......
> 
> Cheers
> 
> George


Do you want to sell me your SetPal remote?


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> Cheap and effective, there may be better out there but it's good enough for me.


A Netgem IPlayer+ or BT Netgem IPlayer+ is pretty good if you can get one on EBay with the last version of the software released with the 7 day EPG. Unfortunately Netgem has now withdrawn support for this product though including the software updates.

However it has a Sony tuner and with that software can run for months in tv only mode without any hangs or freezing whatsoever. Also its very good in poor signal areas.

You can find them being sold on Ebay regularly. I will post the software update number you want to make sure you check with the seller that it has if you buy one on Ebay when I'm next back at home.


----------



## tenwiseman

Pete777 said:


> A Netgem IPlayer+ or BT Netgem IPlayer+ is pretty good if you can get one on EBay with the last version of the software released with the 7 day EPG. Unfortunately Netgem has now withdrawn support for this product though including the software updates.


FWIW I have experienced a few different freeview boxes on my TiVo's.

In terms of comparative picture quality (RGB, mostly checking non-TiVo BBC1 MPEG artifacts on a high-end Sony CRT set) from best to less than best, the list goes like this

Netgem i-Player (in use)
PACE DTVA (now deceased and sadly missed, RIP)
Labgear Setpal DTT100 (not well, suspect cooked)
Wharfedale DV832B (in use)

The Labgear Setpal box would occasionally miss IR sent button pushes leaving the box on the wrong channel - no matter what TiVo sending speed was selected - and this behaviour got worse as it got older. I gave it the P45 last month and employed the Wharfedale in its place - no channel changing problems there! 

The original Netgem i-Player is a solid box. I use a USB ethernet adaptor with mine, which allows easy television access to TiVo Web like they were almost made for each other.

Netgem once had the admiration of a UK community of enthusiasts for their product and ran quite a good web forum - which helped them update their product with new network media features. They killed the forum, and now i-Player interest is waning which is a shame. It's just asking for some open source GPL effort to 'open the box' and start adding further enhancements - some very nice embedded-Linux friendly hardware in there.


----------



## Pete77

tenwiseman said:


> Netgem once had the admiration of a UK community of enthusiasts for their product and ran quite a good web forum - which helped them update their product with new network media features. They killed the forum, and now i-Player interest is waning which is a shame. It's just asking for some open source GPL effort to 'open the box' and start adding further enhancements - some very nice embedded-Linux friendly hardware in there.


The refugees from the Stalinist like closure of Netgem's own web forum (this happened around the time when they and BT stopped selling the box in the UK) now hang out at www.radioandtelly.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?board=iplayer

Some talk there about getting access to the Netgem box to hack it in this thread:-

www.radioandtelly.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1188391524

From memory you want to make sure a Netgem IPlayer or BT IPlayer+ (aka BT Interactive Digital Adapter) is running version 4.6.23c, which is the final version of the software and never crashes during normal tv watching or channel changing. Also auto channel updating and auto software updating can be fully disabled.


----------



## George

Thanks for the advice folks, I thought about the Netgem box, but decided that going from one unsupported box to another was possibly not a good move. £22 quid at Argos and I was the proud possessor of a Wharfdale DVB receiver. 

WOW! I can now receive all the Freeview channels with no problems, a vast improvement over the Setpal box, even when it was new! I have now put thoughts of crossing to the dark sky'd out of my mind (even though the £75 offer is back on).


----------



## Tivo_noob

I'm looking to replace my existing stb because i want to get Setanta and need a card slot, anybody know of one that works with Tivo?


----------



## Tivo_noob

Tivo_noob said:


> I'm looking to replace my existing stb because i want to get Setanta and need a card slot, anybody know of one that works with Tivo?


Anybody?


----------



## AMc

Sorry I don't need the card slot so I can't help much. I believe that all the old OnDigital/ITVDigital boxes are supported and all have a slot but clearly they're looking a bit long in the tooth these days.


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Anybody?


Try typing the words "Freeview" and "Setanta" in to an Ebay search.

I think the Digifusion box with a card slot was mean to be reasonable.

You can also get Setanta on an out of contract Sky box with a viewing card without needing to subscribe to any of Sky's own channels.


----------



## Tivo_noob

Pete77 said:


> Try typing the words "Freeview" and "Setanta" in to an Ebay search.
> 
> I think the Digifusion box with a card slot was mean to be reasonable.
> 
> You can also get Setanta on an out of contract Sky box with a viewing card without needing to subscribe to any of Sky's own channels.


Cheers, i've looked on ebay but the only boxes that are thrown up is the Sagem (supposedly pants) a Thomson DTI2305 (which i know nothing about) an Astratec (ditto) A Philips DTR 2520 (which going off another thread here doesn't work too good with Tivo) and a Goodmans which i have been told to stay clear of!

My best option wouldn't be to buy the SKY *shudder* "Pay once watch forever" would it?


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> My best option wouldn't be to buy the SKY *shudder* "Pay once watch forever" would it?


Yes I think this is the better option if you want Setanta as you are going to get a much more solid service than trying to use any of the various cheap and dodgy Freeview boxes with a card slot for TopUpTv's dodgy Freeview decryption system.

Plus you get Bloomberg, CNN, Euronews, Al Jazeerah Int, Russia Today and France 24 news channels plus Zone Reality Tv, Zone Horror, Zone Thriller, Truemovies 1 and 2, Travel Channel, Biography Channel, Wine Tv, Overseas Property, Living in Spain, Legal Tv, Wedding Tv, Baby Channel and a load of other FTA stuff that is not shopping and that makes a reasonable interesting addition to the Freeview channels. Also you can run a dual source Freeview and Sky Freesat setup with your Tivo providing you have a Freeview box with an RF modulator or buy a Scart RF modulator for a Freeview box that doesn't have one built in.

BBC Freesat (when it launches next year) will be no good for you as it won't have the card slot or decryption technology for Setanta.

Sky Pay Once Watch Forever has just been relaunched through Dixons with 4 Sky Mixes free for the first 4 months.

Order through www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/editorial/Sky Offer and use the discount code SKY10 when ordering to get 10% off the £75. There is a £4.95P&P charge so should work out at £67.50 + £4.95 = £72.45 delivered (for the despatch of the Sky Pay Once Watch Forever box with the account number to then call up Sky and order the install with)

More discussion on this at www.hotukdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1259433&posted=1#post1259433 but make sure to go to the last page of the thread for up to date discussion. Unfortunately you have missed the free DAB radio or MP3 player that Dixons were also bundling with purchases of this value on their website.


----------



## avas

Does anyone know what the IR Codes for this are. The firmware is LG afa9003.2002_B9004. Tivo managed to scan all channels.

Or should I just buy another box as some on the list are so cheap.


----------



## Tivo_noob

Well in the end i just couldn't bring myself to hand over &#163;75 to SKY for there pay once watch forever package.

I have bought a Metronic 441805 (who i here you ask?) well exactly my point, never heard of them and don't know if supported by Tivo, soooooooooooooooo has anybody got one of these and know if its supported by Tivo???

In my defense i enquired about if it didn't work with my Tivo i could return it for a full refund


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Well in the end i just couldn't bring myself to hand over £75 to SKY for there pay once watch forever package.
> 
> I have bought a Metronic 441805 (who i here you ask?) well exactly my point, never heard of them and don't know if supported by Tivo, soooooooooooooooo has anybody got one of these and know if its supported by Tivo???
> 
> In my defense i enquired about if it didn't work with my Tivo i could return it for a full refund


John Lewis have them for £59.95 I see:-

http://www.johnlewis.com/Technology...wing/Freeview+Boxes/98/230449307/Product.aspx

The TopUpTv decryption system in conjunction with the susceptibility of DTT to interference is notoriously flakey so it looks to me as though have made rather a poor investment, especially if you already had another Freeview box. And I imagine this box is currently not supported by Tivo unless it happens to share codes with some other clone brand. So then you will need to go down the full capture with a Pronto and ship the codes to Gary route.

There are loads of additional channel on Sky that are not on Freeview - South Africa Direct being the latest addition only a couple of days ago. If you want a pay tv box on DTT you would be better off waiting for Sky to launch their Picnic service as at least that will use MPEG4. At least that system may get HDTV in due course.

Does your wife have a hang up about having a satellite dish in the house or something?


----------



## Tivo_noob

Pete77 said:


> John Lewis have them for £59.95 I see:-
> 
> http://www.johnlewis.com/Technology...wing/Freeview+Boxes/98/230449307/Product.aspx
> 
> The TopUpTv decryption system in conjunction with the susceptibility of DTT is notoriously flakey so it looks to me as though have made rather a poor investment, especially if you already had another Freeview box. And I imagine this box is currently not supported by Tivo unless it happens to share codes with some other clone brand. So then you will need to go down the full capture with a Pronto and ship the codes to Gary route.
> 
> There are loads of additional channel on Sky that are not on Freeview - South Africa Direct being the latest addition only a couple of days ago. If you want a pay tv box on DTT you would be better off waiting for Sky to launch their Picnic service as at least that will use MPEG4. At least that system may get HDTV in due course.
> 
> Does your wife have a hang up about having a satellite dish in the house or something?


Well if it doesn't work i'll return for a refund 

We actually have a SKY dish on the house (from a previous occupier) so that isn't the problem, the problem is i absolutley hate (strong word but i actually mean it) anything to do with giving them money 

The way they monopolise the whole football viewing and then the boxing then the cricket then the darts then the world cup then etc etc etc makes my blood boil, i remember the days when we could turn on the TV and watch all this for free (well my mother paid the TV license back in those days!) and now we are literally forced to pay a ridiculous amount for a ridiculous service (ie, it doesn't work if there is a little rain or snow!)

I really did consider paying the £75 but i just could not bring myself to do it, it'd feel like selling my soul giving Murdoch a penny let alone £75


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Well if it doesn't work i'll return for a refund
> 
> We actually have a SKY dish on the house (from a previous occupier) so that isn't the problem, the problem is i absolutley hate (strong word but i actually mean it) anything to do with giving them money
> 
> I really did consider paying the £75 but i just could not bring myself to do it, it'd feel like selling my soul giving Murdoch a penny let alone £75


But your subscription would go to Setanta and not Sky although I suppose Sky may get some small handling fee on it.

As to the Sky Pay Once Watch Forever box as long as you don't subscribe to a Sky package is seems clear Sky will lose money on the cost of an install (or they would if they had to install a new Sky dish and you are entitled to ask for a new one even though you have an old one with an old LNB)

However if you have a Sky dish already on the house then why not buy a secondhand Sky box from Ebay for say £30 delivered and then a viewing card for £20 from www.freesatfromsky.co.uk

I also dislike Sky's monopolisic attitude but at the end of the day a Sky digibox not only lets you watch a great many FTA stations from Astra not on Freeview and that are nothing to do with Sky but also for the time being the incomptence of Ofcom forces you to have a Sky box if you also want to get Channel4 and Five on Freesat it due to the nonsense of those channels being encrypted and requiring an FTA Sky viewing card.

As you wouldn't be making Sky lots of money but instead Setanta I still think you are cutting off your nose to spite your face here.


----------



## Tivo_noob

Can't buy a second hand box as i cut the cable when i moved in, nothing to do with my protest at SKY i might add, more to do with the mass of cabling i have at the back of my TV


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Can't buy a second hand box as i cut the cable when i moved in, nothing to do with my protest at SKY i might add, more to do with the mass of cabling i have at the back of my TV


Did you cut it off at the wall? If not you should still be able to get a socket on to the stub of the cable and then connect a cable from the socket to the Sky box.

If you cut it off flush with the wall and plastered over it this suggests to me you do in fact have a somewhat irrational hatred of Sky.

One should only hate paying Sky subscription money and not the actual satellite technolgy, which on the whole is signicantly more robust than and has vast numbers more channels than Freeview.

If you buy a Freeview box they stop maintaining your firmware after 6 months. Sky are still providing firmware and EPG software updates for boxes that are 8 or 9 years old.


----------



## Tivo_noob

Nah the cables had it i'm afraid, cut off at the wall and laid a wooden floor over the top of it just to make sure


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Nah the cables had it i'm afraid, cut off at the wall and laid a wooden floor over the top of it just to make sure


Are you the Director General of the BBC by any chance.


----------



## Ian_m

Tivo_noob said:


> ....it'd feel like selling my soul giving Murdoch a penny let alone £75


Why are you paying Murdoch, last time I looked he (via NewsCorp ?) only owned 35% of Sky.


----------



## Pete77

Ian_m said:


> Why are you paying Murdoch, last time I looked he (via NewsCorp ?) only owned 35% of Sky.


Perhaps because his son, James, is CEO of Sky Digital?

But as I say Sky cannot possibly make a profit on Sky Pay Once Watch Forever where and a new satellite box and dish is fitted. They only make a profit on those customers they persuade to become permanent subscribers.

That is why they need to charge www.freesatfromsky.co.uk customers (who they do not ever expect to become Sky subscribers) £150 in order to make some kind of profit (say £50 or £60) on an installation from which no subscription income will then ensure.


----------



## ColinYounger

Pete77 said:


> Sky cannot possibly make a profit on Sky Pay Once Watch Forever


Hmmm. While I admit that it might be a loss leader, to quote other areas of the internet: "proof or it didn't happen"


----------



## Pete77

ColinYounger said:


> Hmmm. While I admit that it might be a loss leader, to quote other areas of the internet: "proof or it didn't happen"


Just do the numbers.

Sky employee doing dangerous work. Must be on at least £15 per hour (=£30k per annum). Factor in NI and costs of the van owned by Sky and petrol from one job to another and we reach well over £20 per hour - more like £25 per hour. Sky then allow 75 minutes per job on average and then travel time from one job to the next must be around 15 minutes (they work in a fairly small area). So 90 minutes per job = say about £37.50 labour and staff costs and van costs. Then dish plus LNB and cabling = perhaps £17 at cheapest and a Sky box probably costs Sky around £20 as they are somewhat better made than bottom end Freeview boxes. So more or less bang on £75 cost to Sky but no profit margin worth talking of. Then we hit the fact that the product is sold by Dixons or Asda and not direct by Sky. Now they probably want 33% of the £75 which means Sky pay them £25. Now Sky are in loss territory.

But as I'm sure their figures show say 2 in 5 customers do end up subscribing long term and a minimum subscription package is now £192 per annum this is how it begins to wash its face. Then also these customers are reserve customers who can be offered amazing bargain price deals by Sky in periods when subscribers numbers are sluggish to keep the customer numbers apparently going upwards (even if they unsub again 3 or 6 months later).

The point of Sky Pay Once Watch Forever is mainly to mess up the BBC's Freesat model but is not to turn a profit in its own right. For that they need to charge the £150 that is charged by the normal www.freesatfromsky.co.uk product.


----------



## ColinYounger

My emphasis:



Pete77 said:


> *Must be* on at least £15 per hour





Pete77 said:


> we reach well over £20 per hour - *more like* £25 per hour.





Pete77 said:


> Sky then allow 75 minutes per job *on average*





Pete77 said:


> *must be* around 15 minutes





Pete77 said:


> So 90 minutes per job = *say about* £37.50





Pete77 said:


> *perhaps* £17 at cheapest





Pete77 said:


> a Sky box *probably* costs Sky around £20





Pete77 said:


> *more or less* bang on £75 cost to Sky





Pete77 said:


> *they probably* want 33% of the £75





Pete77 said:


> *I'm sure* their figures show say 2 in 5 customers





Pete77 said:


> *The point* of Sky Pay Once Watch Forever is mainly


I'm not trying to yank your chain an annoy you Pete, but none of that is fact. It's speculation and assumptions.

It didn't happen, so far.

Your ball.


----------



## benallenuk

Getting back to the thread topic of freeview set-top boxes. Im looking for a Wharfedale 832BN(2), I went to Argos today to view a Wharfedale 832B, hoping what was in the box was the updated version ie a 832BN(2), it wasnt. I should have guessed as it was only 19.99. Does anyone know where i can get the new updated version?

Thanks


----------



## Pete77

ColinYounger said:


> I'm not trying to yank your chain an annoy you Pete, but none of that is fact. It's speculation and assumptions.
> 
> It didn't happen, so far.
> 
> Your ball.


Well we won't get the definitive facts will we because those matters are commercially confidential to Sky.

I do however know what terrestrial aerial contractors want for 2 hours work fitting a new DTT aerial so I would say my assumption about SKy labour rates and van costs etc are very, very conservative.

If everything had to have definitive proof to be discussed then everything in this country could only operate through the courts (and we know how slow and ponderous they are) and there would be no newspapers and no tv documentaries.

I know this is hard to accept for you chaps of a more scientific lab based background but this is just how things are out there in the real world. Like it or not Sky is not going to publish figures on the actual cost of an average Sky Pay Once Watch Forever install. An educated guess is therefore the best that anyone can do.


----------



## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> Getting back to the thread topic of freeview set-top boxes. Im looking for a Wharfedale 832BN(2), I went to Argos today to view a Wharfedale 832B, hoping what was in the box was the updated version ie a 832BN(2), it wasnt. I should have guessed as it was only 19.99. Does anyone know where i can get the new updated version?


Try phoning Argos's central customer services unit and see if they know which stores hold which models. If they don't its a question of potluck and enquiring at different Argos individually.


----------



## RichardJH

> Try phoning Argos's central customer services unit and see if they know which stores hold which models. If they don't its a question of potluck and enquiring at different Asdas individually.


Pete I'm not sending you shopping again if you don't know your Asdas from Argos's


----------



## Pete77

RichardJH said:


> Pete I'm not sending you shopping again if you don't know your Asdas from Argos's


That's strange. I felt sure I had seen you recommend to another forum member that ignoring me was the best approach?


----------



## RichardJH

Pete how could I carry on ignoring you 

My comment to Carl was about your cable info not about you as a person


----------



## benallenuk

Again, getting back to the topic. I phoned Argos and they didnt have clue about the newer model Warfdale. I went to a different store and they still didnt have the newer model. I decided to buy the recommended Bush freeview box, DFTA-11, but when I got the box in front of me it was a DFTA-14 instead, not knowing if would work with Tivo or not and if was a good STB or not I left it. 

Any suggestions please.

Thanks

Ben


----------



## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> Any suggestions please.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ben


This recent Digital Spy thread suggests if you hunt around various Argoses they are still available. The Feltham (near Heathrow and Hounslow) Argos is mentioned.

www.digitalspy.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=482516

Not everyone in the thread seems to be delighted with these boxes though.


----------



## RichardJH

Just checked at the Feltham branch they have stock.

Pete BTW its directly opposite a large Asda so easy to confuse the two


----------



## Pete77

RichardJH said:


> Just checked at the Feltham branch they have stock.


I see Ben is in Southampton though.

Can stock be transferred between branches? Or perhaps he gets up to London by car now and again? In which case the Feltham Argos is more less on the way.


----------



## RichardJH

Update on Wharfedales at Feltham Argos plenty of stock @ £19.99 each but they all are 832B with software V1.5


----------



## Pete77

RichardJH said:


> Update on Wharfedales at Feltham Argos plenty of stock @ £19.99 each but they all are 832B with software V1.5


By what means did the stock update occur when Argos surely close at 6pm on a Saturday.

I thought you had hiked it down there in person from sunny and not far away Hanworth?


----------



## RichardJH

> I thought you had hiked it down there in person from sunny and not far away Hanworth?


That's exactly what I did plus some shopping in Asda.
As the Wharfedale was down to £19.99 I thought I would get one as a spare but as I said all were old models/software. Thanks to the very helpful staff who searched for any box marked DV832BN or DV832BN/2


----------



## Pete77

RichardJH said:


> That's exactly what I did plus some shopping in Asda.
> As the Wharfedale was down to £19.99 I thought I would get one as a spare but as I said all were old models/software. Thanks to the very helpful staff who searched for any box marked DV832BN or DV832BN/2


Oh so they told you on the phone they had them but then turned out not to when you went there in person?

It seems odd they now have plenty of the older stock and the new ones have all gone. It sounds like members of this forum are not the only ones hunting down the BN models.

What's the betting all the 832Bs turn out to be "refurbished" customer returns. Hence the lower price?


----------



## benallenuk

Hi, I have been looking for a Freeview box to work with Tivo for a week now, not wanting to just buy any old set-top box and have problems with it crashing, missing channel changes, trying to update at night etc etc I've been looking for suggestions from other tivo users. The problem seems that the none of the previously bought reliable boxes are easily available. Tesco,Asda and Argos say they operate a policy with freeview recievers that they would only issue a refund on a box if it was faulty, I assume this is to prevent customers using Argos etc as a buy and try service. So, if I buy a box from these retailers I need to be 100% sure it will work with TiVo and be a reliable box. The ones available with plenty of stock at my local stores are as follows:

Tesco:
Goodmans HDMI GDB15HD- 39.97
Philips DTR220 - £33.97

Asda:
ONN SET TOP BOX OSTB01 SILVER - £22.97
PHILIPS DTR220 STB BLACK - £28.74
Simz mini STB - 15.99
Alba STB8 - £19.99

Argos:
Wharfedale 832B - £19.99
Bush DFTA16HD Set Top Box with HDMI - £29.99
Bush DFTA11 Digital Set Top Box - £24.99 although I viewed a DTFA14, this must be the replacement model.

If anyone has had any experience with any of the above please let me know as I need to get a box soon, im getting very bored of channels 1-4.

Cheers


----------



## Pete77

Ben,

This is just to point out that under the Sale of Goods Act they must still give you a full refund if you return a box because it is faulty rather than just because you don't like it or it is an unwanted present.

Faultyness would include that it regularly freezes and locks up and no member of staff is going to be able to or want to test this under in store conditions, especially if you say the lock up only happens after 4 or 5 hours.

Therefore despite the stated policies of these stores it is actually fairly easy to return a Freeview box to these stores and get a full refund as long as you return it as faulty and freezing randomly (no doubt the actual reason in any case that you will be returning it).


----------



## benallenuk

Ok thanks for the info. I know Tesco now send away a percentage of its returned electrical items for testing. Ok, so returning a box that keeps crashing isnt a problem, but infrared codes inside TiVo for the above boxes still maybe a problem.

Im thinking of getting the philips DTR220, its not the cheapest box but seeing as Philips make IC's used in a number of STB, it might be a good choice. 

Had anyone has it working with a Tivo??


----------



## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> Im thinking of getting the philips DTR220, its not the cheapest box but seeing as Philips make IC's used in a number of STB, it might be a good choice.


Philips caims that their ZAP technology make their boxes more resistant to electrical interference look impressive but are they true.

Have you considered a Sky Pay Once Watch Forever box and satellite dish installed for just £75 from the Dixons website and a further 5% cashback if you order via the www.quidco.co.uk website

I know its £75 and not £30 or so but there are far more FTA channels in total on Sky and you are pretty much guaranteed the box firmware and software will be developed for another 5 years as this is built in to the contracts between Sky and their set top box suppliers. Sky boxes do not tend to randomly freeze or hang and do not suffer with the software update interrupt problem as the boxes do it in the background.

Also you get 4 Sky Mixes free for the first 4 months but with no obligation to continue paying Sky anything thereafter.

See www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/editorial/Sky+Pay+Once+Watch+Forever


----------



## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> Sky boxes do not tend to randomly freeze or hang


ROFL!


----------



## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> ROFL!


Been running a Sky box for nearly 3 years here and virtually never missed a recording due to loss of signal or box freezes.

Perhaps this is because I power the box off once a day on a timer at 5am and then have a daily short recording after this to boot it back in to fully operating mode. Or perhaps it is because it is the ever reliable and ultra long lived Panasonic TUDSB-20.

Any digital set top box that is left on 24/7 will tend to crash and freeze sooner or later. Restarting them daily on a timer is a very wise precaution.

Also any instance of a Sky box freezing are in my experience a tiny fraction of the instances when this may happen with a Freeview box.


----------



## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> Been running a Sky box for nearly 3 years here and virtually never missed a recording due to loss of signal or box freezes.
> 
> Perhaps this is because I power the box off once a day on a timer at 5am and then have a daily short recording after this to boot it back in to fully operating mode. Or perhaps it is because it is the ever reliable and ultra long lived Panasonic TUDSB-20.


Pretty much the only failed recordings I get are because of lock ups and freezes - from my Panasonic box. I wouldn't say they are frequent, but they certainly happen.

Since you take the most extreme anti-lock up measure imaginable - a forced cold restart on a mechanical timer - I would suggest that that means you are a) (despite what you say) lacking in confidence that your box will not crash and b) in the worst possible position to comment on the commonness of crashes since you wouldn't ever see them now.


----------



## benallenuk

Ended up opting for a Bush DTFA-11 but came home with a Bush DTFA-14, installed and stored channels within 5 mins.

THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. The down arrow on the tivo remote (not the page/channel down button) changes the channel on the STB. What a nightmare. Going through the IR codes the channel changes when you scroll up and down the available codes. 

How am i going to get out of this one?


----------



## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> How am i going to get out of this one?


Return it as faulty saying it keeps locking up suddenly after 40 minutes.

OK I know it doesn't but they have to take it back so long as you return it within 7 days.

Then try another Freeview box that is proven and documented to work OK with Tivo or try your luck at another store with another model of Freeview box as you won't easily get away with more than one returned as faulty per store.

Or phone round every Argos within 50 miles of you to see if they have a Wharfedale 832BN unit in stock then drive there. Normal rate phone numbers for Argos (starting 01 or 02) that may be included in your unlimited calls packages (unlike 0845) can be found at www.saynoto0870.com

Or get a Sky Pay Once Watch Forever box as the code set used by Tivo is the same for all Sky boxes and works like a dream. Also firmware and the EPG will get updated for several years unlike almost any Freeview box.


----------



## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> OK I know it doesn't but they have to take it back so long as you return it within 7 days.


You're thinking of the mail order distance selling rules. No such right if you've bought from a shop.


----------



## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> You're thinking of the mail order distance selling rules. No such right if you've bought from a shop.


But in practice all the main high street names will under their own policies take back faulty goods for a full refund if they are taken back as faulty under between 7 and 28 days depending on the store. The moratorium on Freeview box returns by these stores is only if you take it back because you have changed your mind.

Comet for instance used to have a very aggressive 7 days and only for faulty goods policy but now they have an up to 28 days for any reason so long as the goods are still in merchantable condition policy because that is the way the rest of their main competitors have gone. It may also reflect the more customer focused German ownership it is now under.

Also goods have to be "fit for the purpose" and I would suggest a box that freezes all the time is not "fit for the purpose" and so deserving of a refund.


----------



## mikerr

It's the refund part that isn't compulsory under the SOGA;
after "a reasonable time" (7 days...?) you are deemed to have "accepted the goods", 
so they can just give you a relacement or repair.

In practice many stores will give a no-quibble refund within 7 or 28 days, 
but they are not legally obliged to.


----------



## OzSat

benallenuk said:


> Ended up opting for a Bush DTFA-11 but came home with a Bush DTFA-14, installed and stored channels within 5 mins.
> 
> THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. The down arrow on the tivo remote (not the page/channel down button) changes the channel on the STB. What a nightmare. Going through the IR codes the channel changes when you scroll up and down the available codes.
> 
> How am i going to get out of this one?


Set the TiVo remote to a different number.

I think it defaults to 0 - but can be any one of 0-9.


----------



## Pete77

ozsat said:


> Set the TiVo remote to a different number.
> 
> I think it defaults to 0 - but can be any one of 0-9.


Just curious how the Tivo remote number is likely to be causing Ben's problem? I thought this just told a Tivo to only look for IR commands on a different set of frequencies to the default ones so that you can run more than one Tivo in one room using two different remotes or indeed one Tivo remote that can be set to control two different machines (like the US Tivo S3 one blindlemon sells).

I suppose you mean that by using a different set of IR frequencies from the current ones the Tivo remote is then unlikely to clash with the IR command set used by the set top box?


----------



## mikerr

No, down cursor doesn't generate a 0 command - he meant the remote ID of 0.

changing the remote to one of the other 9 IDs (fequency sets) means the settop box won't "see" the remote's keypresses anymore - they'll be on a different frequency.

You can basically control 9 tivos in a room without them interfering with each other by pairing tivos to individual remotes on IDs 1-9.

0 is the "master key" setting, all tivos always listen to remotes on channel 0 as well as the single ID they have been set to.

http://www.9thtee.com/tivotips.htm


----------



## peterseventy

mikerr said:


> Had a quick look, and gary's list of freeview boxes is a bit out of date now,
> 
> We have found Thomson DTI 2300 Freeview receivers to be absolutely reliable - three run on our TiVos in different rooms and are so good that we have acquired two spares just in case. Got them from Ebay at prices between £60 and £90. Their response to menu controls is quite slow and was the subject of various forum moans at the time, but we havn't actually looked at their menus for years. The receivers just keep running, don't lose programmes, and never lock up. The TiVo control code is 20031 medium.


----------



## benallenuk

Hi, went to Argos today. I Used the excuse that the box had crashed 4 times in last 24hrs, they said I could have a replacement there and then, I opted for the old wharfedale 823B. It looks like quite a simple box (menu wise) and I was able to disable the automatic software update search, which was good. Ive taken the lid off the set top box to try and identify components that could get hot. All the freeview boxes I know that have failed can usually be traced back to electroytic caps on the powersupply drying out and expanding, you can usually see a brown resadue on the top of them. On a durabrand box I looked at recently the caps had become short circuit, blowing both the plug and surface mount fuses, ekk.

There is hardly any ventilation inside the wharfedale so heat could be an issue with reliability. I had a thought that I could use the metal shell as a heatsink.

Cheers


----------



## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> Hi, went to Argos today. I Used the excuse that the box had crashed 4 times in last 24hrs, they said I could have a replacement there and then, I opted for the old wharfedale 823B.


Well done on the return. Contrary to what TCM claims retailers do have a duty to take back goods that are faulty when new (although I think the time limit on this is undefined but often taken as 7 days) but do not have a duty to take them back for any reason such as the purchaser simply no longer wanting them.

I'm not so sure of the wisdom of your accepting a Wharfedale 832B as a lot of problems with freezing on these have been experienced compared to the BN model. If you do get freezing and decide to take it back (as genuinley faulty) I would go for the refund this time and then try a different retailer for the next make of box. Returning to the same store more than once in a short time is beginning to push your luck.


----------



## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> Well done on the return. Contrary to what TCM claims retailers do have a duty to take back goods that are faulty when new (although I think the time limit on this is undefined but often taken as 7 days) but do not have a duty to take them back for any reason such as the purchaser simply no longer wanting them.


?

I never claimed they didn't have to take back faulty goods. But the goods under discussion weren't faulty!


----------



## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> ?I never claimed they didn't have to take back faulty goods. But the goods under discussion weren't faulty!


Its virtually impossible to prove a Freeview box is not faulty in an amount of time that is cost effective for the retailer.

Whereas it is easy to spot whether a magazine is faulty and falling apart.


----------



## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> Its virtually impossible to prove a Freeview box is not faulty in an amount of time that is cost effective for the retailer.


I thought we were discussing legal rights, not your predilection for trying to con and defraud retailers.


----------



## Pete77

TCM2007 said:


> I thought we were discussing legal rights, not your predilection for trying to con and defraud retailers.


Most bottom end Freeview boxes are so cheaply made and the firmware so badly tested that they are inherently not "fit for purpose". Therefore the customer is quite within his legal rights to return them as faulty.

Clearly the retailer has the choice of not accepting this and refusing the return the customer can then go to Trading Standards or the small claims court or give up. If the retailer refuses a refund the customer may very well never shop with that chain again - this is a point of significant concern for retailers which often influences them to have generous customer returns policies.


----------



## benallenuk

I agree with the previous post, but the bush dtfa14 was not suitable for my needs, ie it didnt work with TiVo. The Wharfedale DV832b I exchanged it for is an old version with v1.5 firmware, but saying that it seems to be working really well. The main mpeg4/5 decoder IC was getting quite toasty so ive stuck a small aluminium heatsink on it that I had spare off a boardset from a LCD repair, it now seems quite cool.

I'll post an update in a week with reliability results.

Cheers


----------



## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> I'll post an update in a week with reliability results.


The 832B to 832BN is clearly a hardware design change so it may be aspect they have tried to rectify.


----------



## TCM2007

Pete77 said:


> Most bottom end Freeview boxes are so cheaply made and the firmware so badly tested that they are inherently not "fit for purpose". Therefore the customer is quite within his legal rights to return them as faulty.
> 
> Clearly the retailer has the choice of not accepting this and refusing the return the customer can then go to Trading Standards or the small claims court or give up. If the retailer refuses a refund the customer may very well never shop with that chain again - this is a point of significant concern for retailers which often influences them to have generous customer returns policies.


If it was genuinely not fit for purpose, then of course you'd have every right to return it.

That doesn't make it OK to return a perfectly functional product and lie to the retailer saying its faulty, so that the retailer has to pay the cost of your poor shopping decision.

The fact that you CAN do it doesn't make it any less morally wrong.

But then I guess we know from your eBay saga that as far as Pete is concerned its "caveat vendor".


----------



## jeremy Parsons

I have been following this thread and I have had two sepal boxes that have since expired (a BT and a Daewoo) , I managed to get a setpal Daewoo off ebay for aunder &#163;30 including shipping but as its quite old I am assuming the power supply will die again in time. I know cheap freeview boxes go after a few years , does an expensive one exist that is tivo suitable , it appears that they are all built to a price not a standard and as a result they all die after a period of time , don't get me wrong I thing 3-4 years is not that bad for something that cost around &#163;40. however with setpal becoming scarce I will need a suitable replacement in the net 1 -2 years.

does the warfdale suffer sound loss or not? its not that clear from thsi thread


----------



## AMc

benallenuk said:


> There is hardly any ventilation inside the wharfedale so heat could be an issue with reliability. I had a thought that I could use the metal shell as a heatsink.


 As no one has posted images of the internals of both the B and BN2 variants there is no way to know if the boards are the same. The BN runs cooler than the Pace cable boxes I had in the past. Mine lives in a cupboard next to the AV amp and on top of the Tivo (using the blaster). It has been massively more reliable than my cable STBs and hasn't crashed or locked in a year of use - I don't bother restarting it and it runs off UPS so isn't affected by our regular power glitches. 


jemery Parsons said:


> does the warfdale suffer sound loss or not? its not that clear from thsi thread


I get some sound glitches on the BN2 - a drop of half a second every now and again - maybe once every 2 hours. I can't be sure if this is a box issue or a signal issue (as you can't supply a test DTT signal to the box  ). My signal is very weak with a 20dB masthead amp AND a further 20bB booster to get all the MUXes in my area. The aerial is also low on the side of the house and points along the path of the main street in my village. If you happen to be watching almost live you can see the affect of the older tractors and mopeds as they pass the house.

At the end of the day my Wharfedale box has cost me less for a year than my cable subscription cost for a month so I'm not that concerned about it's longevity. I went for the £7 extended warranty so I can take another spin of the wheel if it gives up in the first 3 years  - total cost £37 at £19.99+ even less for the extended warranty I'd give it a try.

If you buy online then you have your 7 day distance selling rights to reject the goods. As long as you are careful when you unpack and repack the box you should be able to return the box in the same condition it arrived in and get your money back.


----------



## Pete77

AMc said:


> If you buy online then you have your 7 day distance selling rights to reject the goods. As long as you are careful when you unpack and repack the box you should be able to return the box in the same condition it arrived in and get your money back.


Although they are entitled to charge return carriage, although whether they do depends on the policy of the store. Also I imagine Argos would let you return mail order goods to any store?


----------



## Tivo_noob

Well i have found this on Ebay:

MOD EDIT: Ebay links are not allowed

How can he/she be selling them at this price????


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Well i have found this on Ebay:
> 
> MOD EDIT: Ebay links are not allowed
> 
> How can he/she be selling them at this price????


A few likely explanations as to why they are being offered at this price:-

1) The seller bought a load of them at Asda back in the summer (July) for £75 thinking it was a one off offer and that he could resell them for £110 each because the normal cost of www.freesatfromsky.co.uk is £150. But now having discovered it is a permanent offer at £75 he wants to offload them and cut his losses.

2) The items in question were shoplifted from a large Asda as they are very small and slim and therefore easily slipped inside a big jacket pocket or holdall etc. Even if they were shoplifted as long as they have the card with the unique Sky Pay Once Watch Forever number Sky will honour the install as Asda will have no idea of which card numbers have been shoplifted and all Sky will know is that this Sky Pay Once Watch Forever card ID has never been used.

3) The Sky Pay Once Watch Forever offer has now been changed so that (a) you now get 4 Mixes for 4 months instead of 2 Mixes for 2 months and (b) the terms and conditions have been changed so it is now compusory to give Sky your direct debit details before they will conduct the install (even though you can cancel before when the 4 months are up). On the original offer you didn't have to give Sky direct debit details (and they found no one would). Assuming this is old stock with the old terms and conditions then it may be being cleared out of the stock chain by someone at Asda, Dixons or Sky itself. They may have acquired them at a knock down price because it is old stock.

If for any reason Sky claim the card with the install number is invalid then you can put the matter in dispute with Paypal. I would say for £35 you can't go wrong. If the worst comes to the worst put it in dispute with Paypal but I think it us unlikely there will be a problem if you buy one of these. Note the seller has a good enough record that PayPay is offering £500 buyer protection.


----------



## Tivo_noob

Well i have decided to purchase one and i am now an official SKY box holder  (well i will be when it's installed) i thought that i personally have given SKY none of my money and at £40 i can't go wrong.


----------



## Pete77

I've just bought one as its the old 2 Mixes for 6 months Sky Pay Once Watch Forever deal.

Although I live in a flat and so won't get a free sky dish installed (which would be even better value for money) this still gives me a new Sky box (as the current one has interference issues on C4 etc with DECT) and 6 months of 2 free Sky Mixes worth £102 in subscriptions.

Alternatively the guy on the Sky Pay Once Watch Forever helpline says that once the current one at my Mum's house has gone past the 6 month free sub period I could get a second box installed there as a different Sky customer although I don't know how they would sort out a second dish. Perhaps they can use a Quad LNB on the original dish to feed a second ordinary Sky box?

Alternatively I have a neighbour with only terrestrial analogue reception here and no Sky who I can sell it to. May be I should buy another one while I'm at it.


----------



## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Well i have decided to purchase one and i am now an official SKY box holder  (well i will be when it's installed) i thought that i personally have given SKY none of my money and at £40 i can't go wrong.


At £40 and assuming Sky were clearing out the old stocks through grey market staff channels you can't go wrong as they are sure to be making a loss.

At least with a Sky box the ruddy firmware and EPG gets updated for several years. With a Freeview box after 6 or 12 months that's it and you are stuck with whatever software is on the box at that time.

I reckon its better than BBC Freesat (if and when it launches) as I'm pretty sure you will find you can get Sky News, Sky Three and Sky Three plus Five, Five US and Five Life on a Freesat box but not a BBC Freesat box (because they will stil be encrypted and need an FTV card).

If you think about 6 months of 2 Sky Mixes worth £17 per month and free box and dish this is a fantastic deal.

Meanwhile the Panasonic TU-DSB20 is going to make the trip out to Spain as its reknowned to be good with weak signals (despite its age) and I might get some UK stations on the 90cm communal dish out there.

What happened to the Freeview box you bought. Did you take it back when it turned out to be no good?


----------



## MrNoisy

jeremy Parsons said:


> I have been following this thread and I have had two sepal boxes that have since expired (a BT and a Daewoo) , I managed to get a setpal Daewoo off ebay for aunder £30 including shipping but as its quite old I am assuming the power supply will die again in time.


I may still have access to a number of setpal PSUs(if they weren't binned  ) - makes me wonder if there is market for such things, if only to prevent more landfill!


----------



## Tivo_noob

Pete77 said:


> What happened to the Freeview box you bought. Did you take it back when it turned out to be no good?


Oh yes i forgot about that...........................absolute garbage 

I honestly can't believe they consider it useable!!

Good points:

Picture quality

Bad points:

It takes a good 30 yes that is thirty seconds to change a channel, their is so much delay between the remote and the STB it renders it useless. Plus Tivo doesn't work with it...................going back tomorrow :down:

Just for future reference: *DO NOT BUY A METRONIC STB TO WORK WITH TIVO!!!*


----------



## benallenuk

*Update on the Wharfedale DV832B*

Hve been using the older Wharfedale STB with tivo since monday. Its been on 24/7 and had no major problems. Ive got it set on the fast IR code in the wharfedale section and its not missed a channel change yet. The common fault of sound loss for a split second once a day is apparant, although AFAIK the nwer model (DV832BN(2)) also has this problem. The only mod I have made is to fit a small aluminium heatsink to the main IC. Talking to a few friends at work this is a system on chip IC, basically controlling everything, I think there is flash memory on board but that doenst produce any heat. I will post some pics of the mod later, thinking of putting a fan in there too, just to be on the safe side.

Cheers

Ben


----------



## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> The common fault of sound loss for a split second once a day is apparant, although AFAIK the nwer model (DV832BN(2)) also has this problem. The only mod I have made is to fit a small aluminium heatsink to the main IC. Talking to a few friends at work this is a system on chip IC, basically controlling everything, I think there is flash memory on board but that doenst produce any heat. I will post some pics of the mod later, thinking of putting a fan in there too, just to be on the safe side.


The www.wharfedale.co.uk website suggests there is a different contact number for technical support for Wharfedale products sold at Argos. This is shown at www.wharfedale.co.uk/argos_support.html I suppose you could always give it a try and see if they know what has changed between the different versions of this box.

No mention of the existence of the Freeview STB on their website though.


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## benallenuk

The Technical help guy suggested to do a channel rescan, as i dont think its a problem with the stored channels i dont think i'll bother!

I'm happy to plod along with this box, a drop in sound one a day for a split second is fine for now.

Cheers


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## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> a drop in sound one a day for a split second is fine for now.


I'm not sure that forum member DVDFever would agree with you on that point though.

We all have our different priorites...........


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## Tivo_noob

Well i got my Sky box and dish fitted today and to be honest i think Pete's estimates of timescale to fit these things are way off the mark 

It took 2 of them 15 yes fifteen minutes to take an old dish down fit a new one with new run of cable.

To be fair though in the 15minutes during installation they even managed to damage the outside of the house, make an absolute abortion of the new cable install and drilled into the wrong part of the house which they then refilled with about 3 tubes of silicon and failed to clean up after themselves 

I have rang Sky and told them that the installation was shambolic beyond belief and they are looking into it. How much are these people earning, anything above minimum is too much in my book!

Pete you will be pleased to know though that the box is set up and working fine so a good (if you ignore the poor installation) purchase at a cheap price


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## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Pete you will be pleased to know though that the box is set up and working fine so a good (if you ignore the poor installation) purchase at a cheap price


Sorry to hear about the crap installation. But did these guys come in a nice new shiny van with Sky logos and advertising all over it or in ye olde white van or at least an unbranded van of whatever colour. Unfortunately Sky does subcontract quite a lot of jobs when they are busy and they are bound to be busy just before xmas.

The third party contractors are not infrequently notorious for being cow boys and doing bodged jobs because as Sky only use them when they are desperate they seem to have to take what they can get (even if they may know the firm is not that brilliant but is at least available).

The guy who came to my mum's house (an official Sky installer in a heavily Sky branded van) was most considerate and insisted on taking off his shoes before coming in and asked if it was convenient to come in to the living room at that time etc, etc. It was a much longer job than yours firstly because there was only one of him and secondly because there is no line of site from my Mum's living room window outside area due to thick high tree cover and so he had to run the cable up the drainpipe to the eves of the house and then tack it all the way down the eves on a 60 foot long elevation and then around the corner and along the eves above a conservatory another 25 feet to a flat roof with a good line of site above which the dish was being fixed to the wall.

He did want to run the cable in the gutter at roof level to avoid having to go up his ladder every 10 feet and tack to the eaves claiming it was cosmetically more pleasing but I had already read up that this was a well known short cut by these guys that led to endless trouble as the leaf sludge in the gutter then attacks the cable and water gets in to it a year or two down the road. So I said I had heard this was not good for the cable and not official Sky trained procedure at which he didn't quibble and stuck to tacking it the eaves. Going up and down a ladder on his own to second floor eaves level about 10 or 15 times was a long and dangerous job he had to take slowly as he was also doing it in rain that varied between drizzle to a torrential downpour that lasted 5 minutes.

Anyhow I also got talking to him about how he got in to this game and he revealed he had only started in Feb and that it was better than driving a delivery lorry endless miles around the South East limited to 50mph max by speed limiter due to new government rules that have just come in for this class of lorry. Also it was apparently better paid and he was effectively his own boss and Sky were happy so long as the allotted number of jobs per day were completed and there wern't lots of customer complaints. It was the last job of the day, it was a very difficult job due to the long run to the dish and it was wet. In any case I think we parted on good terms as he gave me another Sky remote to use with my old clapped out Panasonic TU-DSB20 which does indeed have a very worn remote (although only ever used for going in to Sky Services menu). Also he installed a Quad LNB rather than a standard one because I asked about them but unfortunately he didn't take this as a cue to also install a "double cable" (single looking cable with two inside) which I now find I would need to ever replace the Digibox with a Sky+ box if Sky+ ever drops the subscription charge. I'm sure if I had known about double cables and asked he would have put one in becuause the extra cost is negligible and Sky does not audit them in this level of detail on minor component costs in the installation. I expect if I had known about double cables he would probably have put one in if I had let him put it in the gutter rather than tacking to the eaves.

As to the two holes in your wall business I have to say he did drill through the living room wall from the inside without checking what was on the outside first (surely a lack of basic training or good sense there) and ended up coming out behind a 40 year old thick knarled wisteria trunk near ground floor level but some how, and after a lot of hunting with his hand and a torch, he was able to find it as it was obvious we were the kind of people who might well get upset about a second hole in the living room then being drilled. For some stupid reason Sky don't supply them with wood drills and only masonry drills even though it would have been much easier to drill through the old single glazed wooden frame. Apparently there were bad incidents in the past where very thick Sky installers drilled through sealed double glazing units doing hundreds of pounds of damage that has led Sky to a no cables through window frames policy.

If you complain about an install Sky make sure to send one of their own supervisors to check it out and get one of their own Sky installers to put right any errors in waterproofing etc, etc. Or at least so I have read on Digital Spy forums and elsewhere.

But coming back to the Sky box which one did you get? My mum got the Pace DS445N (only branded on the back of the box) but I think if you have an Amstrad it may not even be branded there. I think the Thomsons may have branding on them somewhere. Also the make is indicated in the Sky Services System Setup menu.

At least your new box does presumably change channel quickly and you will notice there are rather a lot of FTA channels these days of varying degrees of merit. Having said that I suppose you also have two Sky Mixes at the present time on top?


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## Tivo_noob

I got an Amstrad, good/bad? The channel changes are slow actually and i noticed it straight away. 

I'm not positive but i'm 80% certain it was a Sky van they pulled up in (i was at work) but i went home after having a call from my partner saying the guy was being an arsehole . Unfortunately i could only stay 10 mins, if only i had stayed 5 mins longer!!!

When i got in from work, the first thing i noticed was the cable run, it is lying in the gutter which i was less than impressed about, then to make matters worse they tacked it to the side of the house and came across the front of the house horizontally for 20ft . If that wasn't bad enough they then went into the house in the wrong place and tried to correct by filling a large hole with silicone 

I have rang Sky who said it was a contractor, i would of been more than happy if he had left the gear and i would've done it myself. 

Oh and to top it off i have a nice black cable running across my front room floor because he said they aren't allowed to tack anywhere internally 

I told him (i was back at work at this point so it was over the phone) to run the cable behind the fireplace (as easy as undoing 2 screws) like i had with my subwoofer cable but he said they aren't allowed to do that. I honestly cannot believe how bad a job they have done, i just wish i had been around while the fat little turd was doing it


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## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> I got an Amstrad, good/bad? The channel changes are slow actually and i noticed it straight away.


Current Amstrads are I think meant to be good for weak signal strength areas like the Costa Del Sol I believe but not so good on channel change and menu speed. The Pace boxes are meant to be by far the fastest on channel change. This one changes in about two thirds of a second although like most STBs is still slower than a conventional analogue tuner. However it is faster than any Freeview box I have so far seen.



> When i got in from work, the first thing i noticed was the cable run, it is lying in the gutter which i was less than impressed about


Not allowed under Sky's own official rules for installers. Complain and get them to redo it.



> Oh and to top it off i have a nice black cable running across my front room floor because he said they aren't allowed to tack anywhere internally


He gave me a choice of white or black and I chose white because it matched the eaves, the painted wooden windows and white panels outside and the skirting board in the house.

Also the cable comes in through the wall right next to the tv so doesn't have to be tacked anywhere. It does strike me as shoddy they don't actually terminate the cable in a proper satellite point box they fit on the skirting. But no doubt this fits in with their whole mentality that the only person who will be removing the cable from the box will be another Sky installer.

As to the phone cable he did offer to tack it on the skirting but as it goes almost wholly behnind the setee and a cupboard I agreed it was easier to leave it loose as my Mum has no intention of subscribing to Sky and thus of leaving the cable in place long term. But as he could tack the phone cable to the skirting if I had wanted it I strongly suspect your guy was just a liar and trying to save time.



> I told him (i was back at work at this point so it was over the phone) to run the cable behind the fireplace (as easy as undoing 2 screws) like i had with my subwoofer cable but he said they aren't allowed to do that. I honestly cannot believe how bad a job they have done, i just wish i had been around while the fat little turd was doing it


Without wishing to sound sexist I think it may need the man of the house to control one of these Sky apes as women may be more easily persuaded there is some genuine technical reason why they can't do this sort of thing. Also the fact that you don't pay the installer directly makes it quite difficult to take issue with the job they have done and insist they do it another way or not get paid.

I suspect if I had not closely supervised the whole thing the job would not have been done to my liking but as the guy was basically obliging (if obviously under time pressures) with careful supervision and by showing I appreciated what nasty work going up ladders on your own in wet weather was I was able to get the job done the way we wanted. My mum would soon complain if she though her house was messed up by the Sky install and she was totally happy with what a neat job had been done, includng the Sky dish just above the flat roof at first floor level (my idea as he would have put it under the eaves) that you can hardly see from anywhere on the ground and that certainly none of her visitors to the front door can see.

Sounds like you were very unlucky with your installer and we were pretty fortunate with ours who I would characterise as basically a nice guy trying to do his best, albeit that Sky does not exactly instill the highest culture of professionalism in it its installers as their default mode of operation.


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## Tivo_noob

Pete77 said:


> Not allowed under Sky's own official rules for installers. Complain and get them to redo it.


I have and they have said they are sending an engineer round, i just hope i am in when they turn up!



Pete77 said:


> He gave me a choice of white or black


He gave me a choice of black or black, he had used the last roll of white on an earlier job, which i read as "i really can't be bothered going back into my van to change the roll so you can make do with this"


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## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> He gave me a choice of black or black, he had used the last roll of white on an earlier job, which i read as "i really can't be bothered going back into my van to change the roll so you can make do with this"


Sounds like he was a mindless cowboy who didn't care about happy customers. I also don't think it can't have been a Sky van as my guy was on the last job of the day on a Thursday but still seemed to have plenty of everything including a Quad LNB on board. The only thing which he said he had no choice over was the make of box as the serial number had been specifically paired with the viewing card sent by post and assigned against my mother's account (a Sky card will only show premium movie and sports channels in the box it is paired with to stop viewing down the pub etc).

I am quite convinced that had I known about (or rather remembered about) double cables for Sky+ I could have talked this guy in to also fitting one between the dish and the box. Of course in most Sky install situations replacing that cable with a double one from the Quad LNB wouldn't be a very serious issue but in my Mum's case it would be an imposibly dangeorus task involving numerous journeys to near the top of a 20ft tall ladder and dealing with the wysteria and rose creepers along the way.


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## Ian_m

When my neighbour had his Sly+ done, he helped the installer drill the holes and run the cable so he got nice holes drilled in nice places and neat cable runs where he wanted all with drip loops I see as well.

Only issue was where the neighbour wanted the cable to enter the lounge my shed was against the wall so has to locate elsewhere.


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## Pete77

Ian_m said:


> When my neighbour had his Sly+ done, he helped the installer drill the holes and run the cable so he got nice holes drilled in nice places and neat cable runs where he wanted all with drip loops I see as well.
> 
> Only issue was where the neighbour wanted the cable to enter the lounge my shed was against the wall so has to locate elsewhere.


I think Tivo_Noob was unlucky in getting a cowboy as there are many other much better Sky installers out there who want to make their customers happy.


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## Tivo_noob

Oh believe me if i had been around while the install was taking place there is no way he would've been allowed to leave until everything is put right. The contractors rung me this morning and said they will be in touch within 72hrs to put the faults right. They said it is best if i am there to show them what the problem is....................i think if they just pulled up and took one look they will realise how bad a job was done. I have since shown friends who have all said they cannot believe that somebody would do and leave such a bad job. I am self employed and if my work was of the same quality i wouldn't be in business long!


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## Tivo_noob

Does anybody have a complaints number for Sky 

Not heard anything back about the above problem, fair enough i wasn't expecting them to come out on Christmas Eve but 72hrs have certainly passed.

Not only that but i have just had a very rude call from somebody at Sky saying they needed my DD details to activate my account (you know the no contract one off payment account!) they have suspended my *FREE* 6 months of 2 mixes until i give them my DD details, i refused saying that it said quite clearly on the box that this is a one off payment to join Sky and why then would they need my DD details......................they then just hung up  

Why i even bothered with these crooks is beyond me :down:


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## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Does anybody have a complaints number for Sky


Email:- [email protected] (new CEO after James Murdoch moved on to higher things)

and

[email protected]

As to losing the free pay mixes I'm very surprised to hear this as my mum's install was in late November and they sent her one letter asking for a DD which I took home meaning to email Jeremy Darroch to complain but I haven't had a chance to do this and she still has two free Sky Mixes despite Sky having no DD.

It is definitely the case that the first Sky Pay Once Watch Forever deal with 2 Mixes for 6 months did not require a DD to be signed. When Sky relaunched Pay Once Watch Forever with 4 Mixes for 4 months free they changed the terms & conditions so you do now have to sign a DD which you have to remember to cancel at the end of the 4 months.

The All Customer Care Escalation (email to Jeremy Darroch will end up in the same place) people at Sky usually manage to sort out unhappy customers. Normally bribery with a free £50 credit on your Sky account or whatever is their usual technique.


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## Tivo_noob

Pete77 said:


> Email:- [email protected] (new CEO after James Murdoch moved on to higher things)
> 
> and
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> As to losing the free pay mixes I'm very surprised to hear this as my mum's install was in late November and they sent her one letter asking for a DD which I took home meaning to email Jeremy Darroch to complain but I haven't had a chance to do this and she still has two free Sky Mixes despite Sky having no DD.
> 
> It is definitely the case that the first Sky Pay Once Watch Forever deal with 2 Mixes for 6 months did not require a DD to be signed. When Sky relaunched Pay Once Watch Forever with 4 Mixes for 4 months free they changed the terms & conditions so you do now have to sign a DD which you have to remember to cancel at the end of the 4 months.
> 
> The All Customer Care Escalation (email to Jeremy Darroch will end up in the same place) people at Sky usually manage to sort out unhappy customers. Normally bribery with a free £50 credit on your Sky account or whatever is their usual technique.


Thanks Pete, i rang CS and told them of my complaint, i also asked them for a direct number for the contractor who carried out the installation (i was given this previously but i lost it) and i have just rang but the line appears dead 

I had the 2 mixes for 6 months free and i have just had to give them my DD details which i am totally unhappy about and i intend to take this further because nowhere on the box that you buy does it state that you have to give any DD details to receive the FREE mixes

Anyway i on't want to hijack this thread with my complaints about Sky so any further developments and i'll start a new thread


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## Pete77

Tivo_noob said:


> Anyway i on't want to hijack this thread with my complaints about Sky so any further developments and i'll start a new thread


But did you ever get to watch the games on Setanta successfully after all this hassle?

I saw a niceish looking Philips box that could do TopUpTv in a Currys over the xmas period but it was £50 or so and I do tend to believe that the TUTV method of program encryption is inherently glitch ridden.

The new Pace Sky box at my mother's house keeps working 100%, even in heavy rain. Resistance to snow is probably about to be tested.


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## TCM2007

Takes a full-on cloudburst or hailstorm to take the signal out with a properly aligned dish, but it does happen.


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## Pete77

I was in Tesco this evening and they were trying to unload a large number of Astratec Freeview boxes with TUTV card slots. I believe this box is basically exactly the same piece of hardware as the DIgifusion TUTV box but shipped through a different supply channel.

On the whole I would have said that for £40 you had probably gained a lot more choice with Sky Pay Once Watch Forever though.

How goes the Setanta viewing Tivo_Noob and have Sky been back to fix the dodgy cabling?


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## benallenuk

OK, another update on the Wharfedale DV832B. Its rubbish, the second dropout in sound has turned out to be really annoying and for anyone who's a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to electrical stuff will find this very frustrating. Ive bought a Daewoo DS608P from ebay instead.


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## Pete77

benallenuk said:


> Ive bought a Daewoo DS608P from ebay instead.


Would that be the same Setpal box another forum member has just had burn out and that the power supply then blew up on when he tried to repair it?

Coming back to the Wharfedale I think it was made clear before you bought that the Wharfedale 832B was a flawed box design.


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## manolan

Time to wake this thread up!

After returning a faulty Philips DTR220 that Philips Tech Services said did things they had never heard of (see below), I searched SW & W London for a new Freeview box I could buy immediately. Would you believe, not a single one. (Not even a new Philips - check, say, www.argos.co.uk and see if they have availability near you, I checked all their stores in W London and several other vendors).

Eventually, after sitting in the Bank Holiday traffic leaving London to the West, I found a Metronic Digi-Scart (aka 441816 - http://www.metronic.com/index2.php?p=produits&lang=UK&idcat=75&idsscat=59&page=3) in Comet in Isleworth. In fairness, they had 1 Sagem as well. Having read many negative comments about Sagem, but not having read this entry (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5779170#post5779170), I went for the Metronic.

Of course, there were no codes for it as far as I could see (tried all the ones under Freeview), but I dusted off my old Pronto and seem to have a reasonable set of codes now. I've sent them to Gary at the tivoportal address, so hopefully he can get them uploaded if that process still works.

(edited to add: Metronic must have done some work since the other post as channel change is quite quick, though not as quick as the Philips DT220 - when it worked).

* faults with the Philips:
- on two occasions, I saw it register the digits of a channel change (i.e. echo the right digits back) and then change to a completely different channel.
- two or three times a week it would just hang half way through a channel change and had to have the power cycled.
I assume these problems might actually be to do with any workaround needed to get the TiVo to work with RC5 codes, but fortunately Philips accepted it as a fault.


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## einstein

manolan said:


> Of course, there were no codes for it as far as I could see (tried all the ones under Freeview), but I dusted off my old Pronto and seem to have a reasonable set of codes now. I've sent them to Gary at the tivoportal address, so hopefully he can get them uploaded if that process still works.


I sent codes to gary for an Alba many years ago, no response, and they certainly didn't end up in the TiVo database, do TiVo still update the IR database, mine hasn't changed in years, and if it did, none of my Alba's would work, if they overwrote the codes.

I think you'd be better off, inputing the codes yourself! using Gary scripts, if your TiVo is on a network.


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## manolan

einstein said:


> I sent codes to gary for an Alba many years ago, no response, and they certainly didn't end up in the TiVo database, do TiVo still update the IR database, mine hasn't changed in years, and if it did, none of my Alba's would work, if they overwrote the codes.
> 
> I think you'd be better off, inputing the codes yourself! using Gary scripts, if your TiVo is on a network.


This is what I have done, but I would rather have the right codes on the box under the right manufacturer's name. I would have thought updating the database would be a trivial matter for them.


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## britcub

Recent-ish updates for Freesat boxes suggest the IR database is still updated... I don't think Gary is active on the Forum any more though, maybe OzSat can help though?


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## Pete77

britcub said:


> I don't think Gary is active on the Forum any more though


His last post in the forum was on 2nd May 2007.


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## ashers

Does anyone have any suggestions on what is a good cheap STB that they've purchased recently that works with the Tivo?

Ashers


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## Pete77

ashers said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions on what is a good cheap STB that they've purchased recently that works with the Tivo?


The only Freeview box I have noticed any consistently positive opinions on here is the standalone Sony unit.

Nearly all the other Freeview boxes seem to have issues including short lives.


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## bigwold

Pioneer DBR-TF100. Looks like they're going for £20-30 on a certain auction site.

PS It's Bank Holiday and it's raining here


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## Pete77

bigwold said:


> PS It's Bank Holiday and it's raining here


Yes its also raining here in the South East.

The weather forecast last night implied it would be sunny most of the day and then a big thunder storm this evening as two weather fronts met over the channel.

To be fair the weather forecast on Friday did suggest sun yesterday and rain today so presumably the weather pattern today was a complicated one that made it hard to forecast accurately.


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## rgmward

my Wharfedale box has packed up after a few years of good service.

i only need a freeview box for a few months, but need something!

what is a good one? i'm tempted by the Grundig GUD1500 from Argos, but not sure on codes. i'd appreciate any advice, as i need to buy one today!

Cheers

Robert.


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## ashers

I also had a wharfedale that packed up after just over 2 years. 

I bought a Astratec TOPD3 for &#163;15 from Tescos. It works well with the Tivo (using the codes for a Bush). Not used it that long but the box itself seems fine. Only snag I've found is that if there's a power cut, it returns to its standby rather than its 'on' state. So you don't get any recordings after a power-cut until you manually turn the unit back on.

Ashers


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## AMc

Out of curiosity what happened the Wharfedales? I have one that's OK at the moment and an extended warranty on it somewhere if it dies. Just want to know what may go wrong in case I need to make a quick swap.

Thanks


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## johala_reewi

Pete77 said:


> The only Freeview box I have noticed any consistently positive opinions on here is the standalone Sony unit.
> 
> Nearly all the other Freeview boxes seem to have issues including short lives.


So you haven't seen the many positive comments about the Pioneer DBR-TF100


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## ashers

For anyone who is interested, the codes for the Astratec TOPD3 that work for me are:
- BUSH 20046-Medium with two leading zeros and no enter.

As to what happen to the wharfedale, a component went pop inside - I think at the time of a power cut - there were definitely burn marks on the PCB.

Ashers


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## filbert

ashers said:


> For anyone who is interested, the codes for the Astratec TOPD3 that work for me are:
> - BUSH 20046-Medium with two leading zeros and no enter.
> 
> As to what happen to the wharfedale, a component went pop inside - I think at the time of a power cut - there were definitely burn marks on the PCB.


Cheers. My Tvonics just started to have broken pictures on all non BBC channels. Cheap enough to swap out and make sure it was the Tvonics. The Astratec seems to work fine with those settings.


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## pdurrant

rgmward said:


> i'm tempted by the Grundig GUD1500 from Argos, but not sure on codes. i'd appreciate any advice, as i need to buy one today!


Don't get the Grundig GUD1500. It won't work with any of the tivo codes.

Paul


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