# Tivo Mini Network Speed limited to 10 Mbps?



## rburgie (Jun 25, 2018)

It appears that TIVO has placed a 10 Mbps limit on the Tivo Mini when combined with the Tivo Bolt watching Netflix. This pretty much limits any 4K using the Mini. With the Roamio (and the previous software release), speed was constant at 25 Mbps. Checking network speed with Netflix Help option. Have 3 mini's, all have same issue. One hardwired ethernet and one AC adapter and one Moca.


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## ke3ju (Jan 5, 2004)

I just checked mine, came back with 101.05 Mbps. Hardwired to a gigabit switch. My main TiVo is a Roamio OTA. Why would Bolt or Roamio make a difference?


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## rburgie (Jun 25, 2018)

ke3ju said:


> I just checked mine, came back with 101.05 Mbps. Hardwired to a gigabit switch. My main TiVo is a Roamio OTA. Why would Bolt or Roamio make a difference?


Right? I didn't have any problems with Roamio. Speed was 25 (which is all I have network wise). Bolt, new OS, 10 max. What gives?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rburgie said:


> Right? I didn't have any problems with Roamio. Speed was 25 (which is all I have network wise). Bolt, new OS, 10 max. What gives?


Besides Netflix, is there another way to test the internet speed from a Mini?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

rburgie said:


> It appears that TIVO has placed a 10 Mbps limit on the Tivo Mini when combined with the Tivo Bolt watching Netflix. This pretty much limits any 4K using the Mini. ... *Have 3 mini's*, ...


What version are your Mini's ... v1, v2 or Mini VOX?


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## ke3ju (Jan 5, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> What version are your Mini's ... v1, v2 or Mini VOX?


I thinking vox as he mention 4K...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rburgie said:


> It appears that TIVO has placed a 10 Mbps limit on the Tivo Mini when combined with the Tivo Bolt watching Netflix. This pretty much limits any 4K using the Mini. With the Roamio (and the previous software release), speed was constant at 25 Mbps. Checking network speed with Netflix Help option. Have 3 mini's, all have same issue. One hardwired ethernet and one AC adapter and one Moca.


Are your sure some of the wires aren't damaged with the Network connection? A 10Mb/s limit would imply that only one pair is being used. Have you checked the switch port that the TiVo is connected to?

Both of my Minis easily exceed 25Mb/s on the Netflix test. I have a v1 Mini and a Mini Vox. I've never even seen a Netflix speed test so slow on a TiVo with a wired connection.


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## rburgie (Jun 25, 2018)

aaronwt said:


> Are your sure some of the wires aren't damaged with the Network connection? A 10Mb/s limit would imply that only one pair is being used. Have you checked the switch port that the TiVo is connected to?
> 
> Both of my Minis easily exceed 25Mb/s on the Netflix test. I have a v1 Mini and a Mini Vox. I've never even seen a Netflix speed test so slow on a TiVo with a wired connection.


I did not have any issues when I had the Roamio installed but I purchased a BOLT and installed the latest software on the Bolt along with the mini's. Now it appears I have speed limits. Believe that the BOLT combined with the new OS is the issue. Using BOLT to test speed shows 25 Mbps. Doing the same test via Mini shows 10 Mbps.


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## rburgie (Jun 25, 2018)

ke3ju said:


> I thinking vox as he mention 4K...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Mini's are not VOX. Most are 4-6 years old.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rburgie said:


> I did not have any issues when I had the Roamio installed but I purchased a BOLT and installed the latest software on the Bolt along with the mini's. Now it appears I have speed limits. Believe that the BOLT combined with the new OS is the issue. Using BOLT to test speed shows 25 Mbps. Doing the same test via Mini shows 10 Mbps.


Please, is it a A92, A93 or a Mini VOX?


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## rburgie (Jun 25, 2018)

A92


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

rburgie said:


> This pretty much limits any 4K using the Mini.





rburgie said:


> Mini's are not VOX. Most are 4-6 years old.





rburgie said:


> A92


FYI... Only the Mini VOX supports 4K. Upgrading the host DVR from a Roamio to a 4K-capable BOLT doesn't change that.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> FYI... Only the Mini VOX supports 4K. Upgrading the host DVR from a Roamio to a 4K-capable BOLT doesn't change that.


But it still should see speeds many times faster than 10Mb/s. I know my v1 Mini does.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> But it still should see speeds many times faster than 10Mb/s. I know my v1 Mini does.


Understood, but the throughput to the Mini is irrelevant to what seemed the core complaint in the OP:


rburgie said:


> This pretty much limits any 4K using the Mini.


The throughput to the v1/A92 Mini's is moot relative to 4K support; they aren't gonna do 4K no matter _what_ the Netflix testing tool reports.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> But it still should see speeds many times faster than 10Mb/s. I know my v1 Mini does.


My v2 Mini never gives Netflix test speeds higher than about 7Mbps. My internet link is 160Mbps. The mini is MoCA connected, which shouldn't matter, but who knows? Other threads claim that Netflix reports numbers that are lower than actual throughput, so maybe it doesn't mean anything.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

snerd said:


> My v2 Mini never gives Netflix test speeds higher than about 7Mbps. My internet link is 160Mbps. The mini is MoCA connected, which shouldn't matter, but who knows? Other threads claim that Netflix reports numbers that are lower than actual throughput, so maybe it doesn't mean anything.


yes. the numbers are typically lower than the actual max throughput. But from what I've seen are also typically much faster than the speeds of any of the Netflix streaming content.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

snerd said:


> My v2 Mini never gives Netflix test speeds higher than about 7Mbps. ... Other threads claim that Netflix reports numbers that are lower than actual throughput, so maybe it doesn't mean anything.


This is my thinking, as well, considering Netflix's stated requirements for HD streaming support are a 5 Mbps connection (see here).



> *Internet Connection Speed Recommendations*
> Below are the internet download speed recommendations per stream for playing TV shows and movies through Netflix.
> 
> 0.5 Megabits per second - Required broadband connection speed
> ...


My guess is that Netflix's tool is first determining whether it's testing for an HD or UHD stream, and then adjusting its max test bandwidth accordingly. (There's no reason to burden the test servers testing far more bandwidth than the client device would ever require.)

p.s. I'm also wondering if the host DVR plays any part in a given Mini receiving a different version of the Netflix app. I suppose I could fire-up my shelved BOLT and see if its connected Mini reports a different app version number than my Roamio-hosted Mini's.


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## rburgie (Jun 25, 2018)

krkaufman said:


> FYI... Only the Mini VOX supports 4K. Upgrading the host DVR from a Roamio to a 4K-capable BOLT doesn't change that.


Guess BOLT 4K ability stops at the unit. Buying the 4K TV for the bedroom was a bad idea since the signal stops in the media room.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

rburgie said:


> Guess BOLT 4K ability stops at the unit. Buying the 4K TV for the bedroom was a bad idea since the signal stops in the media room.


... unless you upgrade that particular Mini to a Mini VOX, add some other 4K-capable streaming box (Roku, Apple), or try the TV's (assumed) built-in streaming apps.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> This is my thinking, as well, considering Netflix's stated requirements for HD streaming support are a 5 Mbps connection (see here).
> 
> ​My guess is that Netflix's tool is first determining whether it's testing for an HD or UHD stream, and then adjusting its max test bandwidth accordingly. (There's no reason to burden the test servers testing far more bandwidth than the client device would ever require.)
> 
> p.s. I'm also wondering if the host DVR plays any part in a given Mini receiving a different version of the Netflix app. I suppose I could fire-up my shelved BOLT and see if its connected Mini reports a different app version number than my Roamio-hosted Mini's.


I don't see that with my devices. I'm on FiOS GigE Internet. 
Some of my devices will see from 300 Mb/s to 700 Mb/s with the Netflix Speed test. Like my XB1X or Nvidia Shield or ATV 4K. My Bolts also see over 100Mb/s with the Netflix Test. As does my Mini Vox, Roku, and FireTV..


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> p.s. I'm also wondering if the host DVR plays any part in a given Mini receiving a different version of the Netflix app. I suppose I could fire-up my shelved BOLT and see if its connected Mini reports a different app version number than my Roamio-hosted Mini's.


That would be pretty goofy, since the Mini shouldn't need any interaction with the host in order stream Netflix/etc. But hey, any excuse for blue circles, right?


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## rburgie (Jun 25, 2018)

krkaufman said:


> ... unless you upgrade that particular Mini to a Mini VOX, add some other 4K-capable streaming box (Roku, Apple), or try the TV's (assumed) built-in streaming apps.


True, I could run another ethernet line into the bedroom or buy a ethernet splitter because my Mini also requires one. But that makes me kind of sad that I have to do that since I know the mini is more than capable of transmitting speeds higher than 10 Mbps. Tivo just wants to make another $200 sale so they intentionally reduced the thru-put to 10 Mbps. Intentionally modifying the thru-put on the Mini is like Volkswagon intentionally modifying the software on their vehicles to pass tests. Crappy way to run a company.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> My Bolts also see over 100Mb/s with the Netflix Test. As does my Mini Vox, ...


Both of which are UHD-capable, and so would fall outside the scope of an HD-only network test.

I can't speak for all your devices, but many of them appear to similarly be 4K-capable and so would also be scoped for 4K-ready network testing, rather than just HD. It's just a theory; and maybe only applicable to the Netflix app as written for TiVos.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

snerd said:


> That would be pretty goofy, since the Mini shouldn't need any interaction with the host in order stream Netflix/etc. But hey, any excuse for blue circles, right?


I'm just wondering if each Mini downloads its apps from the service or from its connected host DVR, which might account for a different software version. Just speculation, and not something I have any confidence in. (My guess is the apps come from the service, and a Mini will report the same app version regardless of its host DVR.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

rburgie said:


> Tivo just wants to make another $200 sale so they intentionally reduced the thru-put to 10 Mbps.


Your Mini's network bandwidth has nothing to do with 4K support; those older Mini's simply lack the built-in hardware for handling 4K encodings. They could have Gigabit Ethernet or MoCA 2.5 support, and be using every bit of either, and they still wouldn't be able to process and display 4K content.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

rburgie said:


> True, I could run another ethernet line into the bedroom or buy a ethernet splitter because my Mini also requires one.


How does this relate to trying some other streaming box of the TV's built-in 4K apps? I'd expect these alternatives could get away with a wireless connection; though a wired connection would be more reliable and save wireless bandwidth for devices that don't have an option.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Both of which are UHD-capable, and so would fall outside the scope of an HD-only network test.
> 
> I can't speak for all your devices, but many of them appear to similarly be 4K-capable and so would also be scoped for 4K-ready network testing, rather than just HD. It's just a theory; and maybe only applicable to the Netflix app as written for TiVos.


I was curious so just tried this on my hardwired Bolt. Bolt is about a foot from my router. The Netflix speed test on the Bolt gives 13.5 megs. Fast.com on my phone gives 380 megs. This is on a 400/20 Spectrum link.

I only subscribe to Netflix HD service. Perhaps these are Netflix limitations rather than TiVo?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

samsauce29 said:


> I was curious so just tried this on my hardwired Bolt. Bolt is about a foot from my router. The Netflix speed test on the Bolt gives 13.5 megs. Fast.com on my phone gives 380 megs. This is on a 400/20 Spectrum link.
> 
> I only subscribe to Netflix HD service. Perhaps these are Netflix limitations rather than TiVo?


Good insight. I think I really should fire-up my BOLT and test it out, using both of the Netflix accounts I'm paying for ... one with UHD support, the other not.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

samsauce29 said:


> I was curious so just tried this on my hardwired Bolt. Bolt is about a foot from my router. The Netflix speed test on the Bolt gives 13.5 megs. Fast.com on my phone gives 380 megs. This is on a 400/20 Spectrum link.
> 
> I only subscribe to Netflix HD service. Perhaps these are Netflix limitations rather than TiVo?


Update... Never mind. Roku streaming stick (not 4K) on wireless 5 gig network about 20 feet from the router tests at 93-100 megs. TiVo definitely appears to be playing games.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Good insight. I think I really should fire-up my BOLT and test it out, using both of the Netflix accounts I'm paying for ... one with UHD support, the other not.


Agreed. Would be interested to know if TiVo somehow knows if the setup is 4k capable and adjusts somehow?

Edit: Downstairs Bolt with 35 feet of ethernet cable to router, same 13.36 megs as upstairs Bolt. A92 Mini with MoCA 1.1 connection to upstairs Bolt, 5-6 megs.


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## rburgie (Jun 25, 2018)

samsauce29 said:


> Update... Never mind. Roku streaming stick (not 4K) on wireless 5 gig network about 20 feet from the router tests at 93-100 megs. TiVo definitely appears to be playing games.


I believe they are pulling an Apple and intentionally reducing the thru-put or pulling a Volkswagon but whatever it is, it's a software controlled network speed reduction between mini and the Bolt. I don't believe this is a Netflix issue at all. This is all Tivo and wanting you to upgrade to their latest equipment, just like Apple was doing on their own phones by "updating" the software. Tivo appears to have followed in their footprints. To fix it, all I need to do is spend another $600 on Tivo Mini's to replace the Mini's that are working just fine.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

rburgie said:


> This is all Tivo and wanting you to upgrade to their latest equipment, just like Apple was doing on their own phones by "updating" the software.


To post what has been posted. The speed of a Mini when streaming has nothing to do with its host. Turn off the Bolt and run your test.

I hesitate to place blame without testing, but my vote goes to an A92 Mini with Hydra being messed up and maybe fixable. It's a big maybe.


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> To post what has been posted. The speed of a Mini when streaming has nothing to do with its host. Turn off the Bolt and run your test.
> 
> I hesitate to place blame without testing, but my vote goes to an A92 Mini with Hydra being messed up and maybe fixable. It's a big maybe.


My A92 is pre Hydra. Interesting situation but we need more folks to chime in to be sure what's happening.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

samsauce29 said:


> My A92 is pre Hydra. Interesting situation but we need more folks to chime in to be sure what's happening.


A93 is pre-Hydra too. So is my Roamio running Hydra. I have a Mini VOX that was running TE3 for a while. A white Bolt is pre-Hydra.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if TiVo had a benchmark * that we could run to check our network bandwidth? It's on my wish list.

* The firewall blocks my reference to Ookla.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

My experience has been that the Netflix speed test in the Mini app is very unreliable. On an older Mini (non Vox) connected via MoCA, I was seeing Netflix reported speeds of ~5 Mbps. At the time, I had an EdgeRouter Lite in my plant, and the EdgeMax software provides some interesting data on bandwidth and utilization. With the Netflix app streaming on the Mini (and the only active application running), showed throughputs as this:










The left hand graph is showing burst of data, as high as 16 Mbps (Tx Rate in this view is the download speed from the Gigabit port on the router). This was for the standard (non 4K) Netflix feed, on 20 Mbps ISP link. Again, the Netflix speed app would report around 5 Mbps. The data is buffered at some point- the same source feed to an LG WebOS TV app had ~ 5 Mbps, but at a near constant rate, with few large spikes in the data.

The only Mini that will deliver a 4K netflix (or amazon prime, or Youtube) source is the Mini Vox. If the media is playing from the Mini, the short answer is to not worry about the reported test bitrate.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

As is the case for any device. But all my devices, whether HD or UHD, show much faster speeds in the Netflix test than the highest Netflix encode the device is capable of playing. And that includes my v1 Mini.


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## Darrell Patton (Jul 19, 2018)

If any switch or Ethernet port between the Mini and the modem is using an old 10 MBS connection, that would limit the throughput to 10 MBS.


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## Snufflupogus (Jul 24, 2018)

Same here. I found this website because of this issue. I upgraded but downgraded because I'm not at all a Hydra fan. In fact, closely left until I read you can downgrade. Now, the A93 Mini's are getting 7 mbps with my Bolt. Completely unacceptable. I even ordered Tivo Mini VOX's over the weekend but then they failed to activate because somebody already activated them previously. Returned back to Amazon today. I've since started streaming DirecTV Now (love it) which has 20 hrs of cloud DVR. Which you don't really need being most is on-demand anyhow. Also, Fire TV in in play after Prime Day ($30 each). It is going at 35 mbps. Overall, this may be the end of an amazing Tivo marriage I've had. All good things come to an end.


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