# Lost S03E04 "Every Man for Himself" 10-25-2006 [Spoilers]



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

Nice to be contridicted about Ben not being in charge...

Juliet: Ben isn't in charge, we make decisions together...

Ben: Juliet, get over her now woman! 

Paraphrasing but... 

KD


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Nice to get two episode titles mentioned in one episode

Every Man for Himself

Live Together, Die alone

Good Episode


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I'm a bit Lost.


What point did all that con crud serve? They think they have Sawyer's respect now? And even if they did, what's that really gain them?



This episode should have been entitled: Punching


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Nice mind 'F' at the end. Way to totally rob Sawyer of any spunk


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## mattpol (Jul 23, 2003)

I like Ben in a weird way. He is very charismatic. I know he is a character that I guess should be hated, but he is appealing in such an odd way that I can't even describe why I like him.


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

Anyone in the DC area have pixelization during the HD feed? Mine occurred a few times, including when Benjamin was shaking the bunny.

I have a new HR20 and just want to make sure it was a problem with the feed, not the box.

Thanks!


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

mattpol said:


> I like Ben in a weird way. He is very charismatic. I know he is a character that I guess should be hated, but he is appealing in such an odd way that I can't even describe why I like him.


Because he's such a straight-shooter?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Whew! Saved by my UPS, in the middle of this, our power dropped out for a minute.

So there are two islands, the others have a sub, Desmond is not a figment of anyone's imagination, and Ben is a major dick but can take a punch! 

How come Ben's arrow wound healed in no time but his facial cuts are taking forever to heal? What's up wid dat?


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

What the f**k do they want with the Losties?!? Could they PLEASE frigging get on with it!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

ebf said:


> What the f**k do they want with the Losties?!? Could they PLEASE frigging get on with it!


They want them to "Save the cheerleader!"


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

I hate this show. Why do I watch. Grrrr. Can't wait for next week, looks exciting!


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

Figaro said:


> They want them to "Save the cheerleader!"


Yeah, maybe Heros is *not* really better than Lost (at the moment), but its story is really clipping along while still keeping some mystery.


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## mattpol (Jul 23, 2003)

Previews looked *great*, especially the very last thing they showed!



Spoiler



The creepy ghost/masked guy who was maybing wearing a gas mask on the screen of the monitoring station (the pearl?).


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Figaro said:


> So there are two islands


Actually, I think there are 3 islands. I've been wondering for a few seasons now when/if we'd see them. They were on one of the maps that Sayid stole from Reusso.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The Others seem oddly detached from reality. Given what they've put the Losties through, one would think that they would not be shocked that a Losty would consider it necessary to use deadly force in self-defense, but that concept seems to utterly elude them...


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The Others seem oddly detached from reality. Given what they've put the Losties through, one would think that they would not be shocked that a Losty would consider it necessary to use deadly force in self-defense, but that concept seems to utterly elude them...


That's because they are the good guys 

They certainly don't have a problem with deadly force.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

mattpol said:


> Previews looked *great*, especially the very last thing they showed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I think it was...


Spoiler



It was a guy with an eye patch on his right eye. Aye mate!


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## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

ebf said:


> What the f**k do they want with the Losties?!? Could they PLEASE frigging get on with it!


I agree. This was the first episode of the show I have truly disliked. It was incredibly unpleasant as well as boring. I deleted it as soon as I had finished it--that is a first. Whoever wrote it should be fired.

As soon as they got into the business with the bunny and pacemaker I called into the next room and yelled to my husband "Lost just jumped the shark."

Shades of boiling the bunny in "Fatal Attraction?"

Shades of Han Solo in "The Empire Strikes Back," anyone? (Why are they doing this? They never even asked me any questions.)

The more we see of the Others, the more it seems like they've been brought up on pop culture the way you would expect from people who grew up on an Island with only satellite TV and an Internet connection to link them to the outside world. Even their views of good vs. evil seem TV-influenced and oversimplified with all the "we're the good guys" "we'll become the enemy" type of talk.

On a totally different note, Desmond seems very "Jesus after the Resurrection" to me. Looking more like him every day....kind of not of this earth and not just because of Des' clairvoyance. Even Jesus ate fish with his disciples when he came back, but Desmond didn't eat anything when food was offered.

I love "Lost" but tonight's episode was incredibly disappointing and did not move the plot forward except to introduce the spinal tumor.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mattpol said:


> Previews looked *great*, especially the very last thing they showed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I thought it look like only an eye patch.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Much better episode than last week (yaaaaawn). This show is so exasperating, especially in comparison to Heroes (which has replaced LOST as my favorite show right now). 

Sawyer is definitely the most interesting character. Jack being second and Locke third. Love how the following weeks preview always seem to say, "everything changes" or something to that affect! Yeah right!


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The Others seem oddly detached from reality. Given what they've put the Losties through, one would think that they would not be shocked that a Losty would consider it necessary to use deadly force in self-defense, but that concept seems to utterly elude them...


But, but, the Others obviously know what's good for the Losties. Oh, yeah, and the Others aren't killers either. And the Other are so obviously morally superior to the Losties. Really the Losties should just go with whatever the Others decide to do and not question it at all.



I hate the Others with a passion. I'm glad Sun killed whatever her name was. I can only hope more of them get killed.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Who else saw that there was never a pacemaker in there!!! duh!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

SeanC said:


> But, but, the Others obviously know what's good for the Losties. Oh, yeah, and the Others aren't killers either. And the Other are so obviously morally superior to the Losties. Really the Losties should just go with whatever the Others decide to do and not question it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the Others with a passion. I'm glad Sun killed whatever her name was. I can only hope more of them get killed.


I bet the others have a nerf sniper rifle though.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

LOL Thanks.

(BTW: the A-UMF did, in fact, fail so I do have one.)


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

SeanC said:


> LOL Thanks.
> 
> (BTW: the A-UMF did, in fact, fail so I do have one.)


niccccccccccccccccce!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I've Lost my faith in this show. I'm not saying that the emperor has no clothes, I just think he's wearing a Louis Vuitton track suit. For two years, I've lived with the fact that the Losties never explain nothing to nobody about nothing. I was willing to accept that because the mysteries of the island kept everything interesting. This season the Others have dominated the plot and guess what? They don't explain nothing to nobody about nothing, either. Now we've got two groups of people who don't explain nothing to nobody. I give up. Real human beings don't behave like that.

They could have preempted this episode and we wouldn't have missed anything other than the fact that there are two islands.

It took Kate x-number of days to figure out that her bony ass could fit through the top bars? Come on.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Couple things. 

When Sawyer was in a haze Mr. Friendly was talking about how they lost communications and they can't get their systems back up. I guess that core flash/explosion was not expected?

Doesn't it seem that every week the previews say "EVERYTHING CHANGES NEXT WEEK!" and yet week after week we inch along with NOTHING changing? I realize the mystery is half the appeal and all but jesus. THROW US A DAMN BONE. 

And I think all the numbers talk from previous season got to the writers and if I am not mistaken have been completely MIA this seaosn. Guess they realized that was one corner they couldn't write themselves out of. 

And Kate is a stupid beatch.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Just like Jericho, this show was 55 minutes of boring, with 5 minutes of "cool!!". 

You know, while watching this episode, I thought to myself, "Okay, I have been watching from the beginning. Even I am getting bored with how slow things are coming out. What does Joe Sixpack who maybe just started watching this show think of all this mumbo jumbo and how can they even try to figure out what the heck is going on?????"

We got to see both Trixie (although she died, grrr), and now we got Joanie Stubbs!! How long til Seth Bullock and Al Swearingen come busting into the island hunting for someone to kill??? LOL

Edit: Okay, looking at IMDB it looks like Kim Dickens was in The Long Con last season, so she was on before Paula Malcolmson.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Hopefully they will give us some type of payoff before they go into hiatus.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> Hopefully they will give us some type of payoff before they go into hiatus.


But remember, all payoffs come with at least 4 new mysteries. The show is taking the old Choose Your Own Adventure format. The writers are throwing a ton of different things out there. Whatever sticks with the fanbase they run with. Wash, rinse, and repeat. Not complaining, just the way the show goes.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Well, I would certainly loose interest if there were not any more mysteries, so I'm OK with that. But I still want to see some payoffs on the ones we allready have!


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Here's a mystery: someone (Ben?) has a spinal tumor. What about the mysterious healing power of the island, the one that made Locke walk, cured whatsername's cancer, and brought Charlie back to life?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Here's a mystery: someone (Ben?) has a spinal tumor. What about the mysterious healing power of the island, the one that made Locke walk, cured whatsername's cancer, and brought Charlie back to life?


Ben apparently spends too much time on their tiny island, as opposed to the "healing" island!

Hey - the new Lostie likes to play golf. (I guess character development has to start somewhere.)

Was this the first time we saw lightning in an island storm?

Why did the lightning hit the elevated golf club and not hit the MUCH taller trees?


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

I guess the Other's 'village' is on the small island? But they hang out on the big island to screw with the Losties?

Guess Ben (or whoever) should start hanging out on the healing island.

That Julliete chick is HOT!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

My thought on the flashback: I think it's to setup future action, and is not directly related to this week's acton. 

In the flashback, Sawyer feigned hatred for the warden to get closer to the new prisoner and learn the location of the stolen money. He struck a deal with the warden, the local authority figure, that allowed him to get out of jail early.

Back in "realtime", we have Sawyer in jail again and Ben is the local authority figure. Something brewing? Maybe, but what's in it for Ben?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> Who else saw that there was never a pacemaker in there!!! duh!


The very first thing I said to myself once Ben told Sawyer what they did was that it's all just a mind game and they implanted nothing.

It's bad enough the show is going nowhere; but now it's even doing so predictably.

In the "yet another pointless mystery" category... what was with the lightning and the golf club and the wire connecting it to the sand? Are we to believe that brought on the storm; or are we to believe he was trying it for some other reason?


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

I think that Desmond knew the storm was coming. He warned Charlie and Claire about their roof, and when they didn't respond to his suggestion, he rigged up the 5 iron so that it would get zapped instead of the new family. Got this since I watched it a second time (once at the bar where I work, once again at home).

To the person who mentioned the numbers: 8 on the bunny. Surprised they didn't put numbers on the prison unis, though (though they'd have to do combos).

No macroblocking on the DC HD feed here, but I do get it occasionally on HD recordings.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

dswallow said:


> In the "yet another pointless mystery" category... what was with the lightning and the golf club and the wire connecting it to the sand? Are we to believe that brought on the storm; or are we to believe he was trying it for some other reason?


Since surviving the hatch implosion, Desmond can apparently predict the future. He wanted to fix Claire's roof, but Charlie chased him away. Then he puts up the golf club and tells Hurley to stay put. I'm guessing that if Des didn't act, Claire's roof would have been hit by lightning, so he changed what would have happened by putting up the golf club.

Which still begs my earlier question: Shouldn't the taller trees have been struck by lightning instead of the golf club?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

No no, see. Desmond was trying to get the lightning to strike the golf club so that he could get the 1.21 GIGAWATTS!!!!! 1.21 GIGAWATTS!!! to power his coconut flux capacitor, which would then allow him to travel back in time and push the failsafe before the bunker exploded. !!!!


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

BriGuy20 said:


> I think that Desmond knew the storm was coming. He warned Charlie and Claire about their roof, and when they didn't respond to his suggestion, he rigged up the 5 iron so that it would get zapped instead of the new family. Got this since I watched it a second time (once at the bar where I work, once again at home).


Thats probably the relation. But I thought he'd talked about wanting to fix a leak in their roof, not that it'd have anything to do with lightning.


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## durvivor (May 27, 2003)

dswallow said:


> In the "yet another pointless mystery" category... what was with the lightning and the golf club and the wire connecting it to the sand? Are we to believe that brought on the storm; or are we to believe he was trying it for some other reason?


We are to believe based on this, and last weeks show, that Desmond now sees the future.

Last week he said something along the lines of "Don't worry about our capured friends, Loche is going to go and get them. He said so in his speech." It was several hours later that Loche gave this speech.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

drew2k said:


> Which still begs my earlier question: Shouldn't the taller trees have been struck by lightning instead of the golf club?


If the golf club was conductive metal, and that wire was making decent electrical contact with it, and the other end of the wire had a good electrical contact with the ground, then the golf club would've been much more likely to attract any lightning than surrounding trees.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

dswallow said:


> If the golf club was conductive metal, and that wire was making decent electrical contact with it, and the other end of the wire had a good electrical contact with the ground, then the golf club would've been much more likely to attract any lightning than surrounding trees.


Thanks. I obviously don't watch enough Mr. Science or Bill Nye ...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I thought the backstory of Sawyer collaborating with the Warden (his captor) might indicate that the same thing could happen here with the Others.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

mattpol said:


> I like Ben in a weird way. He is very charismatic. I know he is a character that I guess should be hated, but he is appealing in such an odd way that I can't even describe why I like him.


That's the hallmark of a great villain.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

dswallow said:


> Thats probably the relation. But I thought he'd talked about wanting to fix a leak in their roof, not that it'd have anything to do with lightning.


He told them he wanted to fix their roof, and that they should move somewhere else temporarily while he was doing it. It was just an excuse to get them to leave their shelter, in an attempt to save them from the lightning strike.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> Here's a mystery: someone (Ben?) has a spinal tumor. What about the mysterious healing power of the island, the one that made Locke walk, cured whatsername's cancer, and brought Charlie back to life?


We don't know that someone actually has a spinal tumor, just that there are x-rays of someone with a spinal tumor. Jack suspects (as should we) that it's too big a coincidence that the x-rays of a spinal tumor just happened to be on display (with the x-ray box lights on no less) when Jack, a spinal surgeon, was in the room. He wants to know what game they're playing with him. He doesn't yet know however what we know, that what's-her-name isn't really dead, and that is presumably part of whatever mind game they're playing with him.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

bdlucas said:


> He doesn't yet know however what we know, that what's-her-name isn't really dead, and that is presumably part of whatever mind game they're playing with him.


We know this? 

The whooshing sound as that went over my head was probably deafening.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I'm going to go against the grain and say that I liked this episode.
I liked seeing Sawyer/Ford conned (although he'll probably claim that he knew all along and it was part of his bigger con).

Now was Sawyer's prison number 810 or 840?



Philly Bill said:


> I guess the Other's 'village' is on the small island? But they hang out on the big island to screw with the Losties?
> 
> Guess Ben (or whoever) should start hanging out on the healing island.


I thought that the Village was on the main island and the research zoo is on the smaller island.
In the first episode, it seemed more that the village was on the main island as Ben was telling Goodwin and Ethan to run to the crash sites.


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## FauxPas (Jan 8, 2002)

Some interesting bits:
The cartoon started on the left eye of the vulture. The vulture planned to eat the baby swans.
Juliet is a fertility doctor.
Sawyer was reading "Of Mice and Men".

Some other numbers:
When Jack was moved, a wall was marked Area OP-04.
Sawyers prisoner # was 840. The man who stole $10 million had #248.
He hid the money in a storage facility off 441 in unit 23C.
The XRay showed a tumor on the L-4 vertibrae.


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## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

When Sawyer was coming to they were talking about the purple light and that there communications have been knocked out. Are they talking about to the other island or to the real world, maybe both?

Also I thought I heard the words "submarine" when Ben came to get Juliet


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> Here's a mystery: someone (Ben?) has a spinal tumor. What about the mysterious healing power of the island, the one that made Locke walk, cured whatsername's cancer, and brought Charlie back to life?


You're so close. What if the x-ray *is* Locke's? That''s what I thought when I saw it.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

JYoung said:


> I thought that the Village was on the main island and the research zoo is on the smaller island.
> In the first episode, it seemed more that the village was on the main island as Ben was telling Goodwin and Ethan to run to the crash sites.


That's what I think too. Kind of weird that there's another island though. What's the chances that they wouldn't have seen it when they were walking/sailing around the original island?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

appleye1 said:


> That's what I think too. Kind of weird that there's another island though. What's the chances that they wouldn't have seen it when they were walking/sailing around the original island?


Apparently rather good.


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Apparently rather good.


EMP knocked out their cloaking device.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I know Jack is a doctor and they have that whole Hippocratic oath but I would have asked for my freedom before operating but maybe I would just make a bad doctor. 

Oh and now we know how the others got on the sailboat without being wet and no one detecting them.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

OK I have a couple more questions. 

When the tailies met up with the Losties they told them what the others did. So are the other people that were breaking rocks the tailies they took?

Also you would think Jack, Kate and Sawyer would at least be wondering what they did with the children they took?

Of course I still believe there is another set of others out there the ones that probably took the children to protect them from the benry set of others. Or the benry set of others took the children to protect. I definitely think there is a good set of others and a bad set. I think it plays into what someone else said about their being 3 islands on the map that Danielle showed them which is where the other others live.


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## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> We got to see both Trixie (although she died, grrr), and now we got Joanie Stubbs!! How long til Seth Bullock and Al Swearingen come busting into the island hunting for someone to kill??? LOL


Who are Joanie Stubbs, Seth Bullock, and Al Swearigen? I've been paying close attention, but apparently not close enough!


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

JYoung said:


> I'm going to go against the grain and say that I liked this episode.
> I liked seeing Sawyer/Ford conned (although he'll probably claim that he knew all along and it was part of his bigger con).
> 
> Now was Sawyer's prison number 810 or 840?
> ...


How would the polar bears get to the island the Losties are on when the cages are on the island Ben's group is on? I assume the bears escaped from the cages since Sawyer was told it only took them an hour to figure out how to open the cages.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

markz said:


> I assume the bears escaped from the cages since Sawyer was told it only took them an hour to figure out how to open the cages.


It was stated that it only took them 2 hours to figure out the feeding systems, there was nothing mentioned about the bears escaping..

Diane


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

FlugPoP said:


> When Sawyer was coming to they were talking about the purple light and that there communications have been knocked out. Are they talking about to the other island or to the real world, maybe both?
> 
> Also I thought I heard the words "submarine" when Ben came to get Juliet


It sounded to me like Broken Nose was saying "In two days the sky turns purple, we get blind, our coms are all down and I can't get them back up again." No clue what that means of course.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

JYoung said:


> I thought that the Village was on the main island and the research zoo is on the smaller island.
> In the first episode, it seemed more that the village was on the main island as Ben was telling Goodwin and Ethan to run to the crash sites.


Well that would HAVE to be the case since he told Ethan to *RUN* to the crash site in an hour.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Thats probably the relation. But I thought he'd talked about wanting to fix a leak in their roof, not that it'd have anything to do with lightning.


I think it was a ruse to get her to "move down the beach" -- the roof wasn't really the problem, and the lightning rod was plan B.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> I'm a bit Lost.
> 
> What point did all that con crud serve? They think they have Sawyer's respect now? And even if they did, what's that really gain them?


To me, it proved he's definitely NOT all bad or has "a heart of gold" in two instances from his past now: not doing the con on the woman who had a child and giving his "reward" money to the child he claims is not his. As with everyone on the island, no one is all good or bad; just shades of grey. Sawyer is still my favorite character.

Of course, the thing about the pace-maker, you knew they were just screwing with his head. But the end definitely was surprising when they showed him the rabbit was still alive and that they were on a "sub" island. :up:

Personally, I think Kate does love him, but isn't about to admit it to Sawyer.

Oh yeah, may be a smeek, but the woman who told Sawyer she had his child, did anyone else notice that was Joanie from Deadwood (and also Mona from Chris Isaak show)? Those Deadwood actors sure are getting a lot of work lately (though Trixie didn't last long).

Cheryl


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

mojomom said:


> Who are Joanie Stubbs, Seth Bullock, and Al Swearigen? I've been paying close attention, but apparently not close enough!


They are character's from an HBO show called Deadwood. He was just commenting that two of the same actors have now appeared on LOST


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

bdlucas said:


> He doesn't yet know however what we know, that what's-her-name isn't really dead, and that is presumably part of whatever mind game they're playing with him.


Did I fall asleep? Is she really not dead?  I apologize in advance for souding stupid, but I totally missed this. I thought she was dead as a doornail?


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Okay, their communications are down and the crash cart doesn't work (Juliett was about to say why). That almost leads us to believe the Hatch magnetism worked like an EMP (like in 24) and destroyed electronics. But then the TV's all work and the heart monitor works. So now I'm confused again.

2 islands? Cool. But why didn't they take Claire to the second island when they abducted her. Then they wouldn't have to worry about her escape.

What was the deal with all the "Do you love him?" stuff?! With a fertility doctor, I'm beginning to think they ARE breeding them.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

appleye1 said:


> It sounded to me like Broken Nose was saying "In two days the sky turns purple, we get blind, our coms are all down and I can't get them back up again." No clue what that means of course.


It was "two days since the sky turned purple", referring to when the electro-magnetic anomaly was destroyed. Comms refers to communications, presumably with the outside world, since the walkie-talkies were working.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

So Jack, Kate and Sawyer were transported to the other island without knowing it? The needle marks in their arms are from some kind of tranquilizers?

The introduction of a second island was the only part I didn't like about this ep. They've sailed, hiked, and rafted all over and never spotted a second island?

At least _some_ mysteries were solved:
The Others have a sub.
Desmond's not imaginary.
Desmond's Scottish, not Irish. 

It looks like Jack scored some points with the others even though he was unable to save Trixie (Col).


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Great episode! To me, the show isn't about getting answers, answers, answers; I'm just enjoying the story as it is being told and taking that answers as I get them.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

mask2343 said:


> Okay, their communications are down and the crash cart doesn't work (Juliett was about to say why). That almost leads us to believe the Hatch magnetism worked like an EMP (like in 24) and destroyed electronics. But then the TV's all work and the heart monitor works. So now I'm confused again.


The way Julliet said it, it sounded to me like the crash cart hasn't worked, and, since people didn't get hurt like that very often, they haven't been in a hurry to fix it.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

When was it confirmed that they have a sub? Are we talking a submarine or a tasty sandwich?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

JYoung said:


> I thought that the Village was on the main island and the research zoo is on the smaller island.
> In the first episode, it seemed more that the village was on the main island as Ben was telling Goodwin and Ethan to run to the crash sites.


The village is definitely on the main island. In the photo I posted a few weeks back, you can clearly see a continuous line of land from the village, through the valley, along the mountains, and then along the shore to the tail section.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

danplaysbass said:


> When was it confirmed that they have a sub? Are we talking a submarine or a tasty sandwich?


When Juliette was talking to Jack about how Ben isn't her boss, Ben rushed in and said "The Subs back" and that there was a problem


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> When Juliette was talking to Jack about how Ben isn't her boss, Ben rushed in and said "The Subs back" and that there was a problem


Totally missed that...cool. That explains how they snuck up on the boat.


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## pallen4215 (Mar 4, 2005)

bdlucas said:


> We don't know that someone actually has a spinal tumor, just that there are x-rays of someone with a spinal tumor. Jack suspects (as should we) that it's too big a coincidence that the x-rays of a spinal tumor just happened to be on display (with the x-ray box lights on no less) when Jack, a spinal surgeon, was in the room. He wants to know what game they're playing with him. He doesn't yet know however what we know, that what's-her-name isn't really dead, and that is presumably part of whatever mind game they're playing with him.


the girl didn't die?


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

modnar said:


> Great episode! To me, the show isn't about getting answers, answers, answers; I'm just enjoying the story as it is being told and taking that answers as I get them.


+1 I am not getting bored or tired of this show and how they tell the story. I am taking it as it comes and look forward to the next episode as soon as I finish watching the current episode.

Of course I don't watch that "Heroes" show, so I can't compare it to the obviously superior (if you listen to all the "Heroes" fans) story-telling method.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Loved it when Sawyer called the guy with the broken nose "Chinatown".


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

The idea of a second island makes this conversation (paraphrased) make a little more sense now:

"They have a boat"
"They could find.....US"

Also, I thought it was really well done how Jack slipped right back into his old surgeon self when the lady died. He said "Time of death...," paused and looked around for a clock and then realized where he was and what he was doing. "She's gone"


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> Loved it when Sawyer called the guy with the broken nose "Chinatown".


I liked when Charlie called Desmond "Brutha" when he walked up while Desmond was trying to convince Claire to let him fix the roof!


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

*A Small Rant*:

I've been annoyed by things the writers have done (or not done) on this show in the past. I can't say there's any good reason for me to single out this instance for a rant over another. But, I have.

Two episodes ago Sawyer took a rifle butt to the back of the head, shook it off, and proceeded to whup three grown men. This week, little Benny pops him with his collapsible baton and Sawyer folds like a tent. That seriously annoyed me.

The writers have done a great job of making me hate Ben, so when Sawyer finally gets ahold of him I'm expecting some sort of emotional release as Sawyer kicks the crap out of him. But, do I get it? No, of course not!

And why don't I get it? Did Ben do something super-clever to avoid Sawyer's trap? No! Although he turned off the electricity (clever Benny), he managed to let Sawyer pull his arm through the cage, where Sawyer should have ripped it out of its socket and proceeded to beat him with it.

Now, the first shot that Sawyer took with the baton, certainly could have been enough to make him lose his grip. But, Ben should not have been willing to walk alone, and otherwise unarmed, into the cage with Sawyer. And he certainly should not have been able to beat him into submission.

I know what the writers want to do. They want to make the Losties (and us along with them) feel that they're at the mercy of the Others. That no matter how smart or strong or persistent the Losties are, the Others will always find a way to have the upper hand. Every time the Losties see a ray of hope, the Others appear to once again darken the sky.

But, here they've cheated to induce that feeling of oppression in the viewer. They bring the character to the moment of (temporary) victory, and then simply deny it to him by changing the rules. Sawyer transforms instantly from street-tough gang-beater to Glass Joe.

I call foul! Only bad writers have to cheat.

[You: But, the Others have superhuman strength.
Me: No, they don't. You're simply confused by past instances of the writers cheating.

You: But, Sawyer's been beaten up before.
Me: Sure. When it was convenient for the writers.

You: But...
Me: Just stop! Your logic doesn't interest me. It's a rant. Not a call for debate.

You: Okay, then.  Do you feel better?
Me: Yes. Yes, I do.  ]


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

ebf said:


> What the f**k do they want with the Losties?!? Could they PLEASE frigging get on with it!


I couldn't agree more. I have always defended the Lost writers for laying out the story slowly over the last 2 years and building up to whatever, blowing the hatch or "the button". But they are REALLY dragging this whole "others" thing out. I don't know about anyone here, but I don't know ANYTHING more about the Others than I did at the beginning of the season and not much more than we did at the end of last season, outside of them having their own compound that isn't just a bunch of huts.

OK, we get it, they are using lady doctor to make nice with Jack for some reason

OK, we get it, they are trying to break Sawyer

OK, we get it Locke is still conflicted but wants to be "the hunter"

We've had 4 episodes now that have all basically been the same theme. It's time to start moving the story along. Tell us at least a LITTLE bit about why the others are there. And what happened to Michael and Walt? Did they just write them out?

Frankly, I'm getting a little bored. Especially with Heroes being so good and that story moving along so well, Lost is just starting to feel, well....lost to me...

I'm still watching, but based on the ratings, ABC better get on these writers to DO something because people will start tuning out as they've begun to already....


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> The village is definitely on the main island. In the photo I posted a few weeks back, you can clearly see a continuous line of land from the village, through the valley, along the mountains, and then along the shore to the tail section.


That photo also shows that the (main" island is REALLY REALLY big--both crash sites and the village are along one side of it. So it's entirely possible that the little island is just on the other side; since all of the Losties' adventures (including Sayid's boat trip) have taken place along their side of the island, they would never have seen the several other islands that we saw last night.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Anyone remember a couple of episodes ago that Alex, Rousseau's daughter, was skulking around the cages? She definitely didn't want to be seen by the cameras or Others, and we now know that the cages are not on the main island. 

So ... (a) Alex could have been brought to the small island with the assistance of the Others and just doesn't want them to know she's hanging out near the cages, OR (b) the Others don't know that Alex is on the small island at all. 

Ben is going out of his way to make sure Jack and Sawyer know that escape is futile, and Kate is voluntarily staying put. This makes me wonder if eventually (next episode? episode 6 mini-cliff-hanger?) Jack, Sawyer and Kate will get more freedom on the small island, and if (b) above is true, maybe Alex knows a secret way on and off the island that will help Jack, Sawyer and Kate escape ...


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I thought maybe them showing the island to Sawyer from that perspective was to maybe show that ther eis somethign on the island that interferes with viewing or reaching the outside world. Maybe telling him (and us of course) that this has been here the whole time, but you can't see it.

I also thought the Desmond golf club thing was very interesting as clearly Desmond either can see the future or has experienced it before and the whole island (or maybe just certain people on the island) are in some sort of time loop. Probably he saw the lightning hit the hut and kill the baby before so he keeps it from happening. If this is the case and the anomaly is now gone, it will be interesting to see if there is some change in things. Also, Desmond did just show up out of nowhere after an absence, maybe he knew the time was coming when he would need to use the failsafe, based on other iterations of the Matrix timeline.

And Desmond had to use the ruse about the roof because he could not exactly come out and say hey, I have already done this 10 times before and I know what will happen because no one would belevie him.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Ben is going out of his way to make sure Jack and Sawyer know that escape is futile, and Kate is voluntarily staying put. This makes me wonder if eventually (next episode? episode 6 mini-cliff-hanger?) Jack, Sawyer and Kate will get more freedom on the small island, and if (b) above is true, maybe Alex knows a secret way on and off the island that will help Jack, Sawyer and Kate escape ...


He said it was more effective to "threaten Kate". When did this happen? Between the breakfast and her delivery to the cages?


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> He said it was more effective to "threaten Kate". When did this happen? Between the breakfast and her delivery to the cages?


He told Sawyer that if he told Kate what they did to him or did anything else, they would put the exploding heart pacemaker in her and Sawyer did not want that to happen. Basically, Sawyer cared more about her life than his own.


----------



## buckeyenut (Apr 1, 2004)

Skimmed through the first posts, so maybe I've missed it--but did anyone else notice the coorelation of the Locke/Henry relationship from last season and the Jack/Juliet relationship of this episode? 

Seems to me that Jack is attempting to pit Juliet against Henry by using the power/leader play--just like Henry did to Locke (against Jack) last season.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

I took it as Ben threatened Kate to her face. Which is why she got back into the cage.


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

I don't understand why people are saying this was only questions and not answers. 

They specifically wanted Kate, Sawyer and Jack. Well, tonight we found out that they probably want Jack to help with the tumor. The backstory's parallel with the current events made it look like they want Sawyer to work with them on a "con" over the rest of the Losties. I'm going to assume Kate is pretty much to keep both of the men in line.

We found out about the sub, we learned some more names of Others and the relationships ("Chinatown" said 'wife' about Cole in the observation room) and we got the shocker of the 2nd island. I will agree with folks that it's starting to be a bit much that people don't SEE all this stuff .. how little of the beach did Sayid walk if he didn't see the statue, the village or the other island?! I guess the 2nd island does explain where the chunk of electrical wire was potentially leading to, as well ...

I think the backstories this year, weak as they've been, have a common theme: the Losties aren't necessarily "the good guys" either. Ben has really been pushing "we're the good guys" a lot, and our instinct is to root for the characters we know. But Jack pretty much pushed his father off the wagon to his death, Sun is an adultress, Locke willingly worked for a major marijuana pusher and Sawyer was willing to sell out 10 mil to people he clearly hated just to get out of jail.

As for "the girl didn't die" ... wasn't Jack handcuffed to the table WITH HER BODY when Ben and Mr. Friendly were watching on the screen? I took Ben's "I want him to spend more time with her" to be intentionally vague on whether or not "her" was Juliette or the corpse.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

If you follow the link posted by *LordKronos*, and then hit next, you get a picture of the map from XXX episode(s) ago. I don't remember exactly when this was from. But if you look at it now, it clearly seems to indicate three islands.....and the strange triangle drawn over them.........


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

stalemate said:


> We know this?


Well, OK, I'll have to go back and watch again to see if I interpreted it correctly. One of the Others said "should we bring her back now" and the head-honcho guy (sorry, not great with names) said "not yet, I want Jack to sit with her for a while longer". I interpreted "bring her back" to mean bring her back to life, but maybe I got that wrong...


----------



## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

bdlucas said:


> Well, OK, I'll have to go back and watch again to see if I interpreted it correctly. One of the Others said "should we bring her back now" and the head-honcho guy (sorry, not great with names) said "not yet, I want Jack to sit with her for a while longer". I interpreted "bring her back" to mean bring her back to life, but maybe I got that wrong...


No. Mr Friendly said 'Should I get Sheppard now?' - meaning Jack. Ben told him 'No. I want him to sit with her for a while longer.'


----------



## johnmoorejohn (Sep 13, 2001)

Can someone explain when we learned of the sub, I must have missed something.


----------



## kdonnel (Nov 28, 2000)

dswallow said:


> Thats probably the relation. But I thought he'd talked about wanting to fix a leak in their roof, not that it'd have anything to do with lightning.


He suggested that Claire move down the beach for a day or so while he worked on the roof. Since no one in the lost world is allowed to actually say what they know this was his way of trying to get her to leave her shelter.


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

johnmoorejohn said:


> Can someone explain when we learned of the sub, I must have missed something.


When one of the "we have to run and alert someone" scenes at the beginning occured (I think it was Friendly whispering to Ben), the audible whisper was "The sub is back and ..."


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## dba62 (Sep 2, 2005)

markz said:


> How would the polar bears get to the island the Losties are on when the cages are on the island Ben's group is on? I assume the bears escaped from the cages since Sawyer was told it only took them an hour to figure out how to open the cages.


Polar Bears can swim for long distances.


----------



## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

mattpol said:


> Previews looked *great*, especially the very last thing they showed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



it was an eye-patch.. maybe it was a pirate ghost haha



my bad.. didn't see this has already been addressed several times..


----------



## cardboy008 (Dec 23, 2003)

Did anyone else in NY get the last couple minutes cut off? Damn ABC and their scheduling - Anyone have the transcript of what Sawyer was saying in the last scene before the previews?


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

johnmoorejohn said:


> Can someone explain when we learned of the sub, I must have missed something.


Ben said it to Juliette, right after Jack was playing Juliette against Ben's "leadership"

(paraphrasing)

Ben: "Juliette, I need you for something."
Jack smirks
Juliette "Can it wait?"
Ben "The sub is back; we have a problem"

Now, he said it in front of Jack, so it could be a ruse, but I bet they do have a sub, and that's how they got past Jin & Sayid two eps ago.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Did it seem to anyone else that Jack paused and turned, perhaps hearing Kate and Sawyer's yells over the blaring alarm? The Others apparently don't care if Kate & Sawyer see that Jack's alive, but they don't want him knowing their status.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

MacThor said:


> Did it seem to anyone else that Jack paused and turned, perhaps hearing Kate and Sawyer's yells over the blaring alarm? The Others apparently don't care if Kate & Sawyer see that Jack's alive, but they don't want him knowing their status.


Yeah, it seems they at least want us to *think* Jack heard them.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

yep... having a sub would explain how they got access to the boat/end of the dock with out Jin and Sayid seeing them at all.

Very cool episode.
Also... it's odd... perhaps it's ANOTHER observation station, much like the pearl... observing the going ons on the WHOLE island!!!

If you think of the map you see in the hatch, and all the stations there... there is nothing that appears to be another island. And we have the pearl station that observs all the other stations (like the swan... and etc..)

And now you have the hydra... which I don't believe was on that blast door map at all... which has cameras viewing parts of the main island.

Yet they live ON the main island. Very odd... very odd indeed.

As far as the people complaining about the show... perhaps they are just watching it for the new 42 minutes of content, and they are watching too many dumbed down shows such as "Deal or No Deal." 

The major strength of Lost is theorising and picking up on subtle aspects of the show and where it's going. We all know that the writers have a plot/time line in place and they are moving forward, so enough with the complaining of the show here - make another thread if you want to gripe.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> Here's a mystery: someone (Ben?) has a spinal tumor. What about the mysterious healing power of the island, the one that made Locke walk, cured whatsername's cancer, and brought Charlie back to life?


Don't forget Jin gaining back his fertility...ooops, Sun did have an affair!



bdlucas said:


> That's the hallmark of a great villain.


He was also terrific in The Practice as serial killer William Hinks (for which he won an Emmy).


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

MacThor said:


> Did it seem to anyone else that Jack paused and turned, perhaps hearing Kate and Sawyer's yells over the blaring alarm? The Others apparently don't care if Kate & Sawyer see that Jack's alive, but they don't want him knowing their status.


my guess is he might of thought he heard something... but couldn't make it out over the blaring horns.

I must say... either the others are VERY smart, or they have been doing this sort of thing for quite some time..... perhaps a bit of both.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

*<flame suit on>*

I'd like to recommend that people take the time to read through the thread before posting. We've seen it asked and answered several times about the sub. Enough with the sub! They have a sub! 

Here's a tip if you use a browser with TABS enabled. If you are just starting to read the thread and see a question and want to answer it, right-click the "quote" link and choose OPEN IN NEW TAB. Leave the new "quote" tab alone and return to the thread to keep reading. Repeat the above as needed until you reach the end of the thread. For each tab that you opened, if the answer was already posted, simply close the tab. If you get to the end of the thread and no one answered the question, return to the "quoted" tab and post your answer.

Of course, you may still want to post the same answer that someone else already posted, because that leads to fun times when jackasses like me post helpful tips like this!


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Nobody's mentioned the intercom that supposedly doesn't work (according to Juliet) was working pretty well (at least in Jack's head). He heard Sawyer screaming. Are they just letting him hear what they WANT him to hear?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> Nobody's mentioned the intercom that supposedly doesn't work (according to Juliet) was working pretty well (at least in Jack's head). He heard Sawyer screaming. Are they just letting him hear what they WANT him to hear?


maybe the EMP screwed up the intercom system?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

drew2k said:


> *<flame suit on>*
> 
> I'd like to recommend that people take the time to read through the thread before posting. We've seen it asked and answered several times about the sub. Enough with the sub! They have a sub!
> 
> ...


What? There's a sub? When did we find that out? 

Your tabbed method of reading these threads is exactly how I do it. Thanks for confirming that I am doing it correctly!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

drew2k said:


> *<flame suit on>*
> 
> I'd like to recommend that people take the time to read through the thread before posting. We've seen it asked and answered several times about the sub. Enough with the sub! They have a sub!
> 
> ...


 :up:

If the words "I haven't read the entire thread yet" or something similar to that are being typed by you, then stop typing and go back and finish reading!


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

I _have_  read the entire thread and I was wondering if now that we know there's another island (and a sub!!  ), if this is where the cable on the beach is going to / coming from...


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

ScottE22 said:


> I _have_  read the entire thread and I was wondering if now that we know there's another island (and a sub!!  ), if this is where the cable on the beach is going to / coming from...


Perhaps, although the cable must take a circuitous route because Sayid certainly didn't see the small island when he stumbled upon the cable.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

For those who have their interest in this show diminishing rumors are next week is BIG. Not hard to find out the "possible spoiler" but if it holds true it will be a nice to see something actually happen.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

jschuman said:


> No. Mr Friendly said 'Should I get Sheppard now?' - meaning Jack. Ben told him 'No. I want him to sit with her for a while longer.'


Oops.  Did I mention I'm not good with names? Not sure I don't like my version better


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

kdonnel said:


> He suggested that Claire move down the beach for a day or so while he worked on the roof. Since no one in the lost world is allowed to actually say what they know this was his way of trying to get her to leave her shelter.


Or, maybe he thought they would not beleive him if he said he was traveling through time and had to do it serruptitiously. (or maybe as someone half joking said last week, he is a terminator like beign sent to fix the timeline)



MacThor said:


> Perhaps, although the cable must take a circuitous route because Sayid certainly didn't see the small island when he stumbled upon the cable.


Or, as I mentioned before, perhaps there is some force at work that keeps the Losties from seeing the outside world from their vantage point.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> For those who have their interest in this show diminishing rumors are next week is BIG. Not hard to find out the "possible spoiler" but if it holds true it will be a nice to see something actually happen.


I heard that next week is the week


Spoiler



EVERYTHING changes!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

In general, the next two weeks will probably be very big, since this stretch is a mini-season. So two weeks from now will probably be more or less on the level of a season finale.

The creators said over the summer that this initial mini-season would focus very heavily on the Others, so those of you who are upset about that should be patient a little longer (well, a little longer until the mini-season ends, and then a WHOLE LOT LONGER until the regular season begins in February!).


----------



## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

I too was wondering about Rousseau's daughter. She seemed to be part of the others when they abducted Claire, but she's sneaking around now.

Either she's escaped and is truly trying to help Kate or she's a mole and it's part of the Others' monitoring plan (see how Kate reacts to someone she thinks has escaped).

If she's escaped, the Others could know about it and not care, know about it and care (i.e. be trying to find her), or not know it and not care (though this seems unlikely).

The next couple of weeks look good, but it DOES seem like they keep promising EVERYTHING WILL CHANGE! at the end of every episode.

To the person who had the last minute cut off -- it goes one minute over (10:01 eastern), so likely you had another program recording after and it cut lost off. I think you get all of Lost if you move it up on the SP to higher than whatever airs at 10.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Figaro said:


> If the words "I haven't read the entire thread yet" or something similar to that are being typed by you, then stop typing and go back and finish reading!


That sounds like a new Jeff Foxworthy routine.

If the words "I haven't read the entire thread yet, but" are being typed by you, you may be a smeeker.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

bdlucas said:


> Well, OK, I'll have to go back and watch again to see if I interpreted it correctly. One of the Others said "should we bring her back now" and the head-honcho guy (sorry, not great with names) said "not yet, I want Jack to sit with her for a while longer". I interpreted "bring her back" to mean bring her back to life, but maybe I got that wrong...


Maybe this goes back to when "The Bad Twin" was introduced in the form of the book in the hatch......

Maybe they are conducting cloning experiments and a clone was what was actually shot. Remember back in the thread for the season opener, *FJM* mentioned that it was odd that there were no children in Ben's villiage. Maybe that was the point. Maybe they are all infertile, or whatever, and they are cloning. Could this tie into the black/white, right eye/left eye, good/bad, etc.......By giving everyone a chance at "redemption", they become a better candidate.....

Ok, so I am talking out of my *ss, but who knows......

A BTW?........btw....Does an EMP burst ruin electronics if said electronics are not turned on? If not, then that would explain why certain things, like the TVs, still work......


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

speedcouch said:


> To me, it proved he's definitely NOT all bad or has "a heart of gold" in two instances from his past now: not doing the con on the woman who had a child and giving his "reward" money to the child he claims is not his. As with everyone on the island, no one is all good or bad; just shades of grey. Sawyer is still my favorite character.


I think that you missed the fact that Ford/Sawyer was in jail _because he conned the woman he had his baby and she pressed charges_.

Ford ain't as good as you think.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I don't remember where this came from, apologies if it was anyone here and I didn't give you credit.

But I found this in my outbox from last season, and it talks (rather high-level) about what is going to happen this season.

Of course, Spoilerized for your enjoyment.



Spoiler



Why did the Others take Jack, Kate and Sawyer? Where is their home? 
That will be the story told over the first six episodes. 
Season 3 will also be about the main characters and their relationships. They want to service the relationships next year more than the mythology. How Locke got in the wheelchair, how Jack got his tattoos will be revealed in Season three.

Season three will explore what happened on the island before Dharma arrived in the late 70's and who was there. 
The foot statue represents the history and archeology of the island. 
The smoke monster will definitely be back in Season three. There is a good chance we saw the monster this year and didn't realize we were looking at it. By the end of next year we will realize what it was and when we saw it.

Three new cast members:

Descriptions are: Female, 30s, with leadership qualities. Female, early 20s, very attractive. Male, Latino, early 20s, handsome, mysterious quality.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

jlb said:


> Maybe they are conducting cloning experiments and a clone was what was actually shot.


I'll go on record right now and say that if it turns out that any dead person was somehow a clone and the "real" person is still alive, I'll stop watching immediately. That drove me NUTS with Alias. "Oh, you didn't kill <insert person here>, it was just someone who had taken over their DNA and was impersonating them." I finally tore myself away from that train wreck just after the massive cliff-hanger at the end of season 4 and I never regretted it.

The only time I've ever been really irritated with the Lost story was when it was at least implied that certain characters might have only been in Hurley's imagination. After my frustration with Alias, I thought of this as just a possible cop-out in case they ever need to reset the story at some point in the future. I'm still not so sure it won't happen.

OK, frustration vented /whew


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ScottE22 said:


> I _have_  read the entire thread and I was wondering if now that we know there's another island (and a sub!!  ), if this is where the cable on the beach is going to / coming from...


It's not a submarine, it's a sub-island.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I didn't mean it from the Alias, cheap cop out device angle. What if they really were doing serious clonging experiments and one of the clone's was just a victim of circumstances.

We also think there may be a second set of others.......what if the other Others are clones of what we currently know as the Others? You know, another good/bad analogy......_evil twin_/good twin.......

Yes, still possibly a weak device, but......hell......JJ also wrote Alias so you never know what plot devices he is going to borrow.

For that matter, maybe at the heart of the whole Island is a Rimbaldi device.


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

jlb said:


> Yes, still possibly a weak device, but......hell......JJ also wrote Alias so you never know what plot devices he is going to borrow.


Exactly my worry.



jlb said:


> For that matter, maybe at the heart of the whole Island is a Rimbaldi device.


Dear God, no. *stunned*


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

jlb said:


> Maybe this goes back to when "The Evil Twin" was introduced in the form of the book in the hatch......
> 
> Maybe they are conducting cloning experiments and a clone was what was actually shot. Remember back in the thread for the season opener, *FJM* mentioned that it was odd that there were no children in Ben's villiage. Maybe that was the point. Maybe they are all infertile, or whatever, and they are cloning. Could this tie into the black/white, right eye/left eye, good/bad, etc.......By giving everyone a chance at "redemption", they become a better candidate.....
> 
> ...


See what you did bdlucas? Now you've got people coming up with cloning theories! 

Apologies to drew2k, this has been asked and answered: He said "bring Sheppard back" not "bring her back (to life)."


----------



## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Last year I really looked forward to the next episode. This year I watch it but if it stopped right now I wouldn't miss it. 'Lost' refers to are the people watching it, we have no clue as to what is going on and probably never will. I'm beginning not to care about this show.


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

Lost will be back February 7th after the first half wrapup November 8th, just so you guys know:

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-a...eturn,0,1918444.story?coll=zap-news-headlines


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

BriGuy20 said:


> Lost will be back February 7th after the first half wrapup November 8th, just so you guys know:
> 
> http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-a...eturn,0,1918444.story?coll=zap-news-headlines


Wow, just wow....they're taking three months off. Now I know I will have a hard time caring about Lost.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Juliet is a fertility doctor (assuming she is to be believed). That means, she's been to medical school. Which means that she has not spent her entire life on the island, even if Ben is telling the truth in saying he has. I'm thinking Juliet was brought to the island the same way Jack was, in order to cure a medical problem they were having on the island (in her case, the inability to conceive). Which is why they feel the need to steal children.

Also, of course there was no pacemaker. They didn't have a crash cart or any surgeons on the island able to save one of their own, but they're going to start installing pacemakers in people? If there actually was a pacemaker, that would have been some really sloppy writing.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TomK said:


> Wow, just wow....they're taking three months off. Now I know I will have a hard time caring about Lost.


There was much discussion about this before. People were complaining that the reruns were hurting Lost, so they had a hard time caring about it. So they structured it in a new way...mini season, long break, uninterrupted run of the bulk of season.

Now we see a case where someone is affected negatively by this choice.

I predicted this.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I found it interesting when Jack told Juliet there's nothing she could have done, and she asked if Jack were just telling her that to make her feel better. Jack paused, looked a little stunned, and then finally said he didn't care how she felt. It almost seemed like he had to muster up the false hatred of her to say that, just to keep up the appearance that he was tough. It also seemed from the expression on his face that he was actually trying to make himself feel better by telling himself that there was nothing that could have been done to save Colleen.


----------



## Mabes (Jan 12, 2001)

For all those getting annoyed by the slow pace and the lack of answers and the plot points in the past that have just been forgotten, remember one thing - the writers _have a plan_. For a 5 year story arc. 

I don't think they had any idea where this was going to go after the 1st half season. And they still don't, and yet I keep watching. I think the reason is Sawyer and Kate, I really have very little interest in any of the other characters (well, Locke to some degree) but I do like these two.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Mabes said:


> For all those getting annoyed by the slow pace and the lack of answers and the plot points in the past that have just been forgotten, remember one thing - the writers _have a plan_. For a 5 year story arc.
> 
> I don't think they had any idea where this was going to go after the 1st half season. And they still don't....


I wonder how many people said that about Babylon 5.


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

The Others have a sub?!??








Can they clone her please??


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

JYoung said:


> I wonder how many people said that about Babylon 5.


Having never seen Babylon 5, I can't tell if you mean that the writers had a plan but everyone doubted it or that there was no plan but the viewers believed that there was actually a plan. Depending on which way you meant it, I might or might not have some interest in this show.

So, which is it?


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> For those who have their interest in this show diminishing rumors are next week is BIG. Not hard to find out the "possible spoiler" but if it holds true it will be a nice to see something actually happen.





TomK said:


> Last year I really looked forward to the next episode. This year I watch it but if it stopped right now I wouldn't miss it. 'Lost' refers to are the people watching it, we have no clue as to what is going on and probably never will. I'm beginning not to care about this show.


I will continue watching Lost until the end, regardless of how many sharks the show jumps, how many weeks it is or is not shown, and until the last breadcrumb of a clue is painstakingly dangled before the weary viewers' eyes ...

I've given this show too many hours of my life to quit without knowing the mysteries of the Island and the Losties, from watching Lost "live" and again on DVD, from the hours spent in forum discussions and live discussions with friends and family, to the time spent reading general entertainment articles to hard-core Lost fan sites.

I have stuck with lesser shows than Lost through their entire runs, and I declare before friend and foe, I have not lost and will not lose interest in Lost until ABC yanks the plug!


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## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

Ok why do we have to have more new characters?

Also I'm thinking that there might be some sort of tunnel to the other island, either that or the take a shuttle boat..lol


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

FlugPoP said:


> Ok why do we have to have more new characters?
> 
> Also I'm thinking that there might be some sort of tunnel to the other island, either that or the take a shuttle boat..lol


So they can kill off more Losties. And introduce more hot chicks.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

stalemate said:


> Having never seen Babylon 5, I can't tell if you mean that the writers had a plan but everyone doubted it or that there was no plan but the viewers believed that there was actually a plan. Depending on which way you meant it, I might or might not have some interest in this show.
> 
> So, which is it?


I don't think anyone doubted the plan for B5.

There was a five year story arc for B5, with major plot points mapped out 100% in advance by JMS, the creator. The show ultimately did last 5 years, but it appeared it was going to be cancelled in the 4th year, so JMS compressed stories from year 4 and 5 into the 4th season. When it returned for the 5th year, the planned story arc was done and JMS had to start shooting from the hip. Planning is good... it's the networks that screw things up!


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## Mabes (Jan 12, 2001)

Lets think about some things in the past. I think it was the 2nd episode when we saw the pilot up in a tree, dead and bloody. How did he get there, a polar bear couldnt do that. The Others couldnt have done it, they are the good guys. 

Remember the islands defense mechanism that was dragging Locke underground and the black smoke that seemed to be a being? Neither one has ever been explained. I don't think there can be one because the island is not inhabited by "monsters." I think that might have been the original direction they were going but couldn't come up with anything plausible. 

Even in the first episode, we heard those loud noises in the jungle that made us speculate that it might be dinosaurs. Thats never been explained, or is it just part of the defense mechanism? If so, what is it defending? Who the hell knows. It cant be there to scare people away from the island, because you cant leave. 

Think back a couple of episodes when the Others saw the plane breaking apart and immediately sprang into action. Are we supposed to believe they are some sort of bizzarre psychotherapists, waiting on the island until some group of mystically chosen people crash so they can teach them valuable life lessons? 

I could go on if I thought about it. I loved the first season of the show, so much so that I got my brother into watching it. And midway through the second season he started to make these snide comments about how silly it all was. It really annoyed me at the time, I remembered telling him that he just needed to relax and go with the mystery. Now I truly believe that if we had all started watching in the second season, we wouldnt be watching now. 

I am going to continue to watch. I dont really care what happens, but I want to see it anyway. If the writers can somehow tie this all together in a way that makes sense, I dont want to miss it. And if they cant, I cant miss such a spectacular failure either.


----------



## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

mojomom said:


> I agree. This was the first episode of the show I have truly disliked. It was incredibly unpleasant as well as boring. I deleted it as soon as I had finished it--that is a first. Whoever wrote it should be fired.
> 
> As soon as they got into the business with the bunny and pacemaker I called into the next room and yelled to my husband "Lost just jumped the shark."
> 
> ...


I could not disagree more. It was one of my favorite episodes. I love this show!!!


----------



## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

Out of all the ep's this season I think this was the best. I think its really going to start to pick up now, but then we gotta wait forever to watch it again.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

drew2k said:


> I don't think anyone doubted the plan for B5.


Go peruse the Lurker's Guide, or search Usenet. There were just as many people doubting JMS as there are people doubting Lost. Perhaps more with Lost, simply because it's much more popular.

With Babylon 5, there were so many naysayers that JMS rubbed it in their faces. You must have forgotten.










This wasn't ONLY referring to finishing 5 years. I'm sure you remember that the producers were originally going to have Jack die, but since he was such a fan favorite they kept him. What would have happened if FOX decided that Matthew Fox wasn't a suitable enough star, and forced a recast for Season 2? Babylon 5 survived that one.

Greg


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

MacThor said:


> See what you did bdlucas? Now you've got people coming up with cloning theories!


I wish I could say I was sorry, but I think I wish more that I could say it was intentional. Half the fun is the crazy theories.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

gchance said:


> Go peruse the Lurker's Guide, or search Usenet. There were just as many people doubting JMS as there are people doubting Lost. Perhaps more with Lost, simply because it's much more popular.


That's fair. I was never a doubter though!

Back then the only forum I ever posted in was for The Pretender (alt.tv. ...), posting such marvelous missives as "Why did the Pretender cross the road?" How much simpler life seemed then!


----------



## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> The very first thing I said to myself once Ben told Sawyer what they did was that it's all just a mind game and they implanted nothing.
> 
> It's bad enough the show is going nowhere; but now it's even doing so predictably.
> 
> In the "yet another pointless mystery" category... what was with the lightning and the golf club and the wire connecting it to the sand? Are we to believe that brought on the storm; or are we to believe he was trying it for some other reason?


Doug,

I would have thought as disappointed in the show as you are this season you would have quit watching by now. You got a TiVo you certainly should be able to find something you like.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

gchance said:


> I'm sure you remember that the producers were originally going to have Jack die, but since he was such a fan favorite they kept him.


Well...producer favorite I guess, as the fans hadn't seen him yet when they made that change.


----------



## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

Anyone else thing that maybe the sub looks an awful lot like a shark! Albeit one with a logo.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

gchance said:


> This wasn't ONLY referring to finishing 5 years. I'm sure you remember that the producers were originally going to have Jack die, but since he was such a fan favorite they kept him. What would have happened if FOX decided that Matthew Fox wasn't a suitable enough star, and forced a recast for Season 2? Babylon 5 survived that one.
> 
> Greg


Small (really small) nitpick. Not really a spoiler, but just in case:



Spoiler



Jack wasn't "a fan favorite" when he was saved. Jack was slated to die in the Pilot episode. The network (I believe) didn't want to see a Major character die so soon), so they let Jack live. Otherwise, Jack would have died before the fans ever got a chance to know and love (or hate) him.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

markz said:


> How would the polar bears get to the island the Losties are on when the cages are on the island Ben's group is on?


Even if there _were_ bears in Sawyer's cage (and we have no reason to believe there were), there's certainly no reason to assume that they were polar bears.

And if there _were_ polar bears on the small island, maybe they took the sub over to the main island.

BTW: I thought it was strange that Ben called the island "your island". I thought the Others always said that it was "their" island...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

drew2k said:


> There was a five year story arc for B5, with major plot points mapped out 100% in advance by JMS, the creator. The show ultimately did last 5 years, but it appeared it was going to be cancelled in the 4th year, so JMS compressed stories from year 4 and 5 into the 4th season. When it returned for the 5th year, the planned story arc was done and JMS had to start shooting from the hip. Planning is good... it's the networks that screw things up!


Not exactly--what he did was take the storylines that were going to play out over the fourth and fifth seasons, and divided them. Some of them he wrapped up in one year instead of two, and the rest he put off in case there was a fifth season.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

JLWINE said:


> Doug,
> 
> I would have thought as disappointed in the show as you are this season you would have quit watching by now. You got a TiVo you certainly should be able to find something you like.


I continue to be amazed at the number of people who are unable to accept any negative criticism of their favorite show and automatically assume such criticism is another way of saying "I'm never gonna watch this garbage again."

I watch a lot of garbage. Lost is no exception. It's just not among the shows I rush to watch anymore -- I used to watch it almost-live, starting just long enough into it to skip most commercials. But eventually, once I get down to some of the dregs of the season and finish hunting for interesting gems among all the suggestions, Lost is there ready to be watched. 

To give you an idea of how bad a show has to get before I'll stop watching it entirely, look at Threshold, where that it was being written by morons was apparent after the first episode (actually it was pretty apparent from the credits, but still, you give people a chance). Or for those shows that have had a reasonably decent run but get really bad in later years, I gave up on 7th Heaven this season after the premiere (well, during the premiere).

As for selection... I have about 50 shows that I'm watching for the 2006/2007 season; not all have premiered yet, and of course some already have been canceled or are finishing up their (sometimes short) season, but still, there's a lot there to keep up with.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

FlugPoP said:


> Also I'm thinking that there might be some sort of tunnel to the other island, either that or the take a shuttle boat..lol


I seem to remember the Blast Door drawing having a 'Subterranean Conduit' on it somewhere.


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

With "The Others" being right in our face all season, I feel they've lost their mystique. They are just an unhappy and grumpy group of people who live in an island paradise yet are obsessed with harassing some plane crash survivors. 

What happened to those spooky whispers in the forest? I'm more interested in how they tie into the story than I am in a tumor. What about the black smoke that shows people visions of their past? Why did The Others kidnap Walt, the boy who seemed to have psychic powers? Why did they kidnap Aaron, who at one point seemed to be the chosen one? It just seems like The Others existence is rather banal, and the writers aren't addressing the paranormal elements that have dominated the first two seasons. I know we have Desmond seeing the future, but I'm talking about tying what we've seen in past seasons to these boring book club Others we have this season.

I've been a big fan of the show and I still have faith in it, but I would not rate this season very high so far.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

RBlount said:


> Small (really small) nitpick. Not really a spoiler, but just in case:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See. This makes no sense since if in the pilot episode he did die, he would not be considered a major character then. Right?

I just hope someone dies soon or we get some answers soon. Just a little something. PLease.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

jlb said:


> Yes, still possibly a weak device, but......hell......JJ also wrote Alias so you never know what plot devices he is going to borrow.


Just how involved is JJ in this show now? Does anyone know?


----------



## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Why would they need a fertility doctor? Maybe the island -- which is attractive due to its magical healing properties and whatnot -- has the downside that you can't conceive there. So the Others have a fertility doc and are doing weird experients like strange vaccinations and stealing babies and pregnant women to try and make it possible to reproduce on the island(s). The spinal tumor kind of blows this theory though since why wouldn't it magically heal? Maybe there really isn't a tumor and they are just misleading Jack for some reason. 

Like everyone else, I am kind of losing my enthusiasm for this show. The others and their super weird captivity games are not doing anything for me. Why are the cages and the rock-harvesting and all the mind games necessary? Just seems stupid. I have no idea what they are trying to accomplish, but there has to be an easier and more direct way to get it. Also I thought the exploding pacemaker thing was obviously not true and it seemed weird that Sawyer didn't even question it, what with him being a super con man and all.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Ruth said:


> Why would they need a fertility doctor?


Who says they *need* one? Perhaps she just happens to be a fertility doctor like Charlie happens to be a rock star.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Mabes said:


> Lets think about some things in the past. I think it was the 2nd episode when we saw the pilot up in a tree, dead and bloody. How did he get there, a polar bear couldnt do that. The Others couldnt have done it, they are the good guys.
> 
> Remember the islands defense mechanism that was dragging Locke underground and the black smoke that seemed to be a being? Neither one has ever been explained. I don't think there can be one because the island is not inhabited by "monsters." I think that might have been the original direction they were going but couldn't come up with anything plausible.
> 
> Even in the first episode, we heard those loud noises in the jungle that made us speculate that it might be dinosaurs. Thats never been explained, or is it just part of the defense mechanism? If so, what is it defending? Who the hell knows. It cant be there to scare people away from the island, because you cant leave.


You must really hate this show because you are not paying attention. The Smoke Monster is the cause of all of those things. We just don't know what it is yet.


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## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> I continue to be amazed at the number of people who are unable to accept any negative criticism of their favorite show and automatically assume such criticism is another way of saying "I'm never gonna watch this garbage again."
> 
> I watch a lot of garbage. Lost is no exception. It's just not among the shows I rush to watch anymore -- I used to watch it almost-live, starting just long enough into it to skip most commercials. But eventually, once I get down to some of the dregs of the season and finish hunting for interesting gems among all the suggestions, Lost is there ready to be watched.
> 
> ...


It is not a matter of accepting or not accepting criticism--frankly if I like a show I like it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or whether anyone else even watches or not--as long as it has enough viewers to keep it on the air.

My surprize was genuine. I guess I just have a much higher threshold than you do when picking what I watch. My problem is with a TiVo and DirecTv I can't watch half of what I would really like to watch. If I had the concerns you have with "Lost" I would not waste another minute watching, let alone spend any time in a fan thread dedicating to it--thats all I'm saying.

As far as watching 50 shows--where do you find the time my friend?


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> See. This makes no sense since if in the pilot episode he did die, he would not be considered a major character then. Right?
> 
> I just hope someone dies soon or we get some answers soon. Just a little something. PLease.


Actually Michael Keaton was initially cast as Jack and was slated to die in the pilot when they decided to keep him around Keaton did not want a regular TV gig so they recast and it went to Fox.


----------



## UBUBUB (Dec 1, 2005)

Last season we all complained about the three-week breaks between new episodes and the re-runs in between. The producers responded by giving us six straight episodes now and SIXTEEN STRAIGHT NEW EPISODES starting in Feb. through May. I watch the show live every week and next morning after reading all of the comments, I watch the Tivo'ed show again so I have no reason to watch random reruns throughout the season. The producers have given us what we all begged for, so can we all please shut up about the hiatus! Thank you.


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## kdonnel (Nov 28, 2000)

drew2k said:


> I will continue watching Lost until the end, regardless of how many sharks the show jumps, how many weeks it is or is not shown, and until the last breadcrumb of a clue is painstakingly dangled before the weary viewers' eyes ...


I feel the same way.


----------



## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

mwhip said:


> Actually Michael Keaton was initially cast as Jack and was slated to die in the pilot when they decided to keep him around Keaton did not want a regular TV gig so they recast and it went to Fox.


Isn't that ironic. "Lost" could refer to his career--remember how big of a star he used to be. Now I can't remember a movie he has made since Batman nearly 20 years ago.


----------



## joeinma (Jan 11, 2002)

TomK said:


> Wow, just wow....they're taking three months off. Now I know I will have a hard time caring about Lost.


What is so different then prior years? They went off around Thanksgiving and usually came back in mid- January...so were really talking maybe a three week longer gap than in prior seasons...and when it's back, there will be no reruns...it will run straight until May.


----------



## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> Even if there _were_ bears in Sawyer's cage (and we have no reason to believe there were), there's certainly no reason to assume that they were polar bears.
> 
> And if there _were_ polar bears on the small island, maybe they took the sub over to the main island.
> 
> BTW: I thought it was strange that Ben called the island "your island". I thought the Others always said that it was "their" island...


I am really surprised no one has mentioned this, but what proof do we have that the island that Ben was showing Sawyer is indeed the Losties' island? It seemed to me that the purpose of the trek up the steep hill was more for Ben to reveal to Sawyer that he had juked him into thinking his heart would explode, that he could con a con-man.


----------



## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> Who says they *need* one? Perhaps she just happens to be a fertility doctor like Charlie happens to be a rock star.


But every island *needs* a rock star!


----------



## obixman (Sep 7, 2004)

Philly Bill said:


> I guess the Other's 'village' is on the small island? But they hang out on the big island to screw with the Losties?
> 
> Guess Ben (or whoever) should start hanging out on the healing island.


I don't think so, the opening scene showed the others village nestled into a valley between the hills. Ben told sawyer that the island was twice the size of Alcatraz - the village just doesn'r fit.

Also Ben tells his spys to infiltrate in an hour or so - the sea trip would seem to not be possible.

So the others don't live on the island.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Ruth said:


> Maybe there really isn't a tumor and they are just misleading Jack for some reason.


If it's not a toomah, someone on the show better say "it's not a toomah." That's too funny a line to pass up.


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

JLWINE said:


> Isn't that ironic. "Lost" could refer to his career--remember how big of a star he used to be. Now I can't remember a movie he has made since Batman nearly 20 years ago.


I bet he is kicking himself now.

Why has Jack not asked a question like, we crashed here, a boat (black rock) crashed here, a hot air balloon and another guy that was in the hatch crashed here on his boat? Why is everything crashing here?

It seems really stupid to this point for Jack, Sawyer and Kate to be asking a bunch of questions. Especially to people who have access to the outside world!!!!


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Granny said:


> I am really surprised no one has mentioned this, but what proof do we have that the island that Ben was showing Sawyer is indeed the Losties' island?


I was thinking that Sawyer would recognize some terrain features (shapes of mountains, etc)


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I don't think any of us who complain about the show don't like it. I still look forward to it. I just complain that sometimes they make a point and drag it out like 2 or 3 episodes and I get the point already. They give us like a small tidbit of information and the rest is either a definition of a character trait or some other fluff. It's kind of like anticipating going out for a nice meal and you order this wonderful food, and when they serve it to you, the portions are good but really small. So you enjoyed what you ate, but it just wasn't satisfying enough, but the food is good, so you will probably go back. That's how I feel. Like they are giving me small portions of good stuff. Ideally, what I want are BIG portions of GREAT stuff. It definitely beats LOTS of bad crap. That's for sure. You would think though, with all of the main characters, they could give us a lot more. For instance, isn't anyone one here curious about Michael and Walt? Did they make it home? Are they adrift at sea? WIll they wind up back on the Island(s) like Desmond?


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

The fact that you are curious means you will be back to watch the next episode, and the next one, and the next one. (PS. Michael and Walt ARE coming back this season according to the writers). 

This show is STILL the most quality programming on TV from writing to acting to production IMO.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ruth said:


> Also I thought the exploding pacemaker thing was obviously not true and it seemed weird that Sawyer didn't even question it, what with him being a super con man and all.


Would this be part of the reason the villagers have been making Ford do hard physical labor as well?
After doing all the rock moving and getting beaten, he would be more mentally fatigued.


----------



## miscellaneous (Oct 28, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> For instance, isn't anyone one here curious about Michael and Walt? Did they make it home? Are they adrift at sea? WIll they wind up back on the Island(s) like Desmond?


See, to me, this is ADD. They're trying to focus on, and tell the story of, a specific part of the bigger picture. Why do you want them to waiver all over the place and address 73 different questions at the same time? I love that they're trying to flesh this out fully. If Michael and Walt ever show up again, we'll get their part of the story. If they don't, we'll probably see them somewhere in the 'tie-up' of the show, with a big rescue or something.

Let them tell the story, for crying out loud.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

miscellaneous said:


> Let them tell the story, for crying out loud.


Exactly. It's like getting mad at George Lucas for the first three episodes of Star Wars.

IT'S THEIR WORLD. We are just here to enjoy it if we choose.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> Exactly. It's like getting mad at George Lucas for the first three episodes of Star Wars.
> 
> IT'S THEIR WORLD. We are just here to enjoy it if we choose.


Whoa whoa whoa...Just a minute there. Let's not get crazy here. Lost is the same that it has always been. Whereas the Star Wars prequals absolutely sucked donkey butt.


----------



## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

BriGuy20 said:


> I too was wondering about Rousseau's daughter. She seemed to be part of the others when they abducted Claire, but she's sneaking around now.


I didn't take her sneaking around to mean that the Others didn't know she was there, just that she didn't want to be seen chatting up Kate instead of whatever it is she's supposed to be doing.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Figaro said:


> Whoa whoa whoa...Just a minute there. Let's not get crazy here. Lost is the same that it has always been. Whereas the Star Wars prequals absolutely sucked donkey butt.


True, but if George Lucas wanted to make his world suck donkey butt, who are we to argue?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Liked the episode.. said that out loud after just the intro (at the first commercial break).

Definiltely going to smeek on some of this because I'm on page 3 out of 5, but want to post before the thread grows too much.. (will read every post)

1) I disagree with the use of terms like "clairvoyance", "premonitions", or the phrase "can see the future" when describing what's going on w/Desmond. In the previous episode, he clearly seemed to have EXPERIENCED Locke's speech before, and forgot that it hadn't happened yet.. I got the same feeling here.. Someone having a vision of something usually seems (in movies/tv) to act a bit surprised that it came true (at least the first time), and just generally it usually feels different.. This is more like recognition.. like he's already lived these events several times. As has been guessed in this and previous threads, I think he's either in some kind of loop, or possibly he's living out of time or in reverse time..

2) Loved the "Just gimme a reason" and "Didn't I just do that? What do I gotta do, make fun of your momma?" exchange

3) LOVED seeing Jack get a hook into Juliette (before the surgery - early on) when he said Ben was in charge and she said no, they make decisions as a group, etc.

4) As was said before, also appreciated the character consistency of having Jack reflexively say "Time of death, ..."

5) Knew they had a sub..

6) Sawyer's been in jail.. Thought that made the whole Sawyer/Kate_being_in_a_cage thread a bit more relevant..

7) Saw Sawyer's con coming a mile away.. Thought he'd be more "in cohoots" w/the warden though - initially thought he wasn't even really a prisoner when we first saw him start the con.

8) If I was angry because a group of other people killed my wife, and I had two of them in a cage, I can see going to beat the hell out of one of them - but I can't see asking the other "DO YOU LOVE HIM?!?!".. Maybe he figured that would hurt them.. like maybe he thought "well, I'm beating this guy up so that's good, but how can I hurt her? Oh yeah, let's betray her secret that she loves the guy, since I don't want to beat the crap out of a woman". That's the best I can come up with for now though, given what we know so far.. (maybe it's more tied into the breeding thing?)

9) Good to see a confirmation of breeding of some sort - her being a fertility doctor.. I think Alex and Carl were bred - maybe she escaped.. or maybe (as I think I said last week or before that), she gave birth to a baby and had it taken, which is why she wanted so much to help Claire get away w/her baby.

Ok, more later. Good episode.

Ok, one last thing: I strangely wish they'd put in some HORRIBLE scene, that wasn't good at all, to get the people who complain here regularly to finally give up on the show and leave. You know who you are. What are you waiting for? I for one welcome every thought you have while you're here, positive or negative, but I'm stunned that people would keep posting each week if they hate it so much.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

When Benry said "the sub's back," did it really necessarily mean a submarine? While I would agree that that certainly is a logical conclusion, he could have meant plenty of other things as well - e.g., the "sub-group," the "subordinates," or the "subterraneans." I'm not willing to rule those out altogether, even if the Occam's Razor explanation is "submarine."


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

obixman said:


> I don't think so, the opening scene showed the others village nestled into a valley between the hills. Ben told sawyer that the island was twice the size of Alcatraz - the village just doesn'r fit.
> 
> Also Ben tells his spys to infiltrate in an hour or so - the sea trip would seem to not be possible.
> 
> So the others don't live on the island.


Agreed. If you've ever been on Alcatraz, you know it's not a large island at all - you can probably walk from one end to the other in no more than 15 minutes ... and that's longways.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> And if there _were_ polar bears on the small island, maybe they took the sub over to the main island.


Perhaps "Jumped the shark" will be replaced with "Loading the polar bears in the submarine."

[I'm a Lost fan. Just having some fun.]


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> Perhaps "Jumped the shark" will be replaced with "Loading the polar bears in the submarine."
> 
> [I'm a Lost fan. Just having some fun.]


Now we need an "Arrested Development" reunion just so Henry Winkler can do that too!


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## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> 8) If I was angry because a group of other people killed my wife, and I had two of them in a cage, I can see going to beat the hell out of one of them - but I can't see asking the other "DO YOU LOVE HIM?!?!".. Maybe he figured that would hurt them.. like maybe he thought "well, I'm beating this guy up so that's good, but how can I hurt her? Oh yeah, let's betray her secret that she loves the guy, since I don't want to beat the crap out of a woman". That's the best I can come up with for now though, given what we know so far.. (maybe it's more tied into the breeding thing?)
> 
> 9) Good to see a confirmation of breeding of some sort - her being a fertility doctor.. I think Alex and Carl were bred - maybe she escaped.. or maybe (as I think I said last week or before that), she gave birth to a baby and had it taken, which is why she wanted so much to help Claire get away w/her baby.


Along the lines of these, perhaps a) they are planning on breeding Kate + Sawyer b) If Kate doesn't "love" Sawyer, he has no purpose/value since the attempt at breeding would likely fail.

Who knows, the guy was off the deep end.

-murray


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> They could have preempted this episode and we wouldn't have missed anything other than the fact that there are two islands.


What a ridiculous point of view. That's like saying you can just skip watching the game and check the result later.

Like Roger Ebert said: "A movie is not about what it is about. It is about how it is about it."


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

It's really frustrating reading all the Lost-bashing and comparisons to Heroes.
Both shows are terrific and stand up on their own merits.

If you don't like the show, why do you even bother coming to a forum where fans hang out?

Shows I don't like, I just don't watch. And I certainly don't waste my time going to fan forums to bash their favorite show. I simply can't be bothered.

I enjoy each episode of LOST and Heroes. My mind can differentiate between the different writing styles and pacing and character development and therefore appreciate each series. 

Ugh!


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## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

murrays said:


> Along the lines of these, perhaps a) they are planning on breeding Kate + Sawyer b) If Kate doesn't "love" Sawyer, he has no purpose/value since the attempt at breeding would likely fail.
> 
> Who knows, the guy was off the deep end.
> 
> -murray


What a romantic notion - that the two people would need to love each other in order for successful breeding to take place. People "breed" all the time without love being a factor. If they wanted breeders, why not take Sun, who is already pregnant, and Claire, who has recently given birth?

I keep waiting for the incident that will demonstrate that the Others really are the "good guys", like they keep saying.

Random thought... You don't suppose Sawyer's "daughter" is a con played on him by his victim/girlfirend, do you?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

dswallow said:


> I continue to be amazed at the number of people who are unable to accept any negative criticism of their favorite show and automatically assume such criticism is another way of saying "I'm never gonna watch this garbage again."


Doug, don't take this the wrong way, but I think the point is that a lot of us are thinking that we don't _care_ if you watch this anymore, just lay off the negativity in each and every week's Lost threads.. You said exactly the same thing last week - continue to be amazed.. We're posting here about shows we like.. yet you're in here posting how you didn't like it.. Are you posting in other threads about other shows you don't like or don't watch? Why? Seriously, stop watching shows you don't like, and find something more interesting to do with your time! Most of your posts are like a wet blanket here.. Most people here aren't looking for lots of negative criticism - they want to talk about a show they just saw (presumably because they _enjoyed it_).



dswallow said:


> I watch a lot of garbage.


WHY?? You have a TiVo.. Divorce yourself from shows you don't like, and let them go. Or, keep watching Lost - just try to resist posting each week how much you don't like it.



dswallow said:


> As for selection... I have about 50 shows that I'm watching for the 2006/2007 season; not all have premiered yet, and of course some already have been canceled or are finishing up their (sometimes short) season, but still, there's a lot there to keep up with.


_FIFTY SHOWS?!?!_.. Fifty.. 5 0? And Lost is at the bottom of your pile?

Enough with the "negative criticism" - it's not in high demand.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

The idea that there should be no criticisms of a show in a forum like this is just silly. These forums are for the exchange of views and ideas. Are you telling me that if someone LOVES the show overall, but sees holes in the logic or finds certain storylines less than fully believable or is frustrated that certain story lines seem to have been dropped, that that LOST lover isn't allowed to express them here?

So relax - if you don't agree with criticisms you see here, just move on to the next post.

[EDIT: This wasn't targeted at anybody's post in particular - I drafted it before I even saw jkeegan's post right above it.]


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

I also noticed how quickly Jack fell right back into his ways when he was operating on Colleen. But there was a noticable difference in how quickly he gave up on trying to revive her, and how easily he accepted her dying. Think back to him literally pounding on Charlie when he was trying to revive him...and other incidences in flashbacks where Jack just wouldn't accept that he couldn't save someone. He had no problem giving up on her without putting up much of a fight.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

smickola said:


> I also noticed how quickly Jack fell right back into his ways when he was operating on Colleen. But there was a noticable difference in how quickly he gave up on trying to revive her, and how easily he accepted her dying. Think back to him literally pounding on Charlie when he was trying to revive him...and other incidences in flashbacks where Jack just wouldn't accept that he couldn't save someone. He had no problem giving up on her without putting up much of a fight.


He is finally accepting the fact that nearly all of his patients die.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> He is finally accepting the fact that nearly all of his patients die.


What was Dr. Jack's last name again? Kevorkian? 

Thank you .. enjoy the veal ... don't forget to tip the waitresses ...


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

drew2k said:


> I will continue watching Lost until the end, regardless of how many sharks the show jumps, how many weeks it is or is not shown, and until the last breadcrumb of a clue is painstakingly dangled before the weary viewers' eyes ...


I kind of feel the same way you do, but I'm also thinking about how I stuck it out with "Alias" until the bitter end. That was just a waste of my time. This week's episode had way too many cringe-inducing lines or predicable situations... I don't know how much longer I can put up with this until I just delete it and spend my time watching something else.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> He is finally accepting the fact that nearly all of his patients die.


Nearly all of Jack's patients die, and nearly everyone gets to punch Sawyer in the face at some point.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Granny said:


> Random thought... You don't suppose Sawyer's "daughter" is a con played on him by his victim/girlfirend, do you?


OH!! Good idea! Man, if that's true, he fell for it hook line and sinker..


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

I had a hard time at the end when Sawyer was standing there with Ben and 2 armed guards. Last week Sawyer was sizing up all of the others, so there he is 1 on 3. Ben's throat was sticking out screaming "hit me hit me". A shot to the throat will take out anybody. The other 2 numbnuts have their rifles over their shoulders, and that is where there brains will concentrate, their weapons. Not much for Sawyer to take them both down and then disarm them. After watching Super Sawyer take all those shots and still take out a bunch of others I was disappointed he just crumbled to Benry.

I think they set Jack up to see if he was truly a doctor with must save any human morals, so that he can perform spinal surgery on an other and be trusted not to off him/her.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

super dave said:


> I had a hard time at the end when Sawyer was standing there with Ben and 2 armed guards. Last week Sawyer was sizing up all of the others, so there he is 1 on 3. Ben's throat was sticking out screaming "hit me hit me". A shot to the throat will take out anybody. The other 2 numbnuts have their rifles over their shoulders, and that is where there brains will concentrate, their weapons. Not much for Sawyer to take them both down and then disarm them. After watching Super Sawyer take all those shots and still take out a bunch of others I was disappointed he just crumbled to Benry.


I think it demonstrated that by that point, Sawyer had been broken. He realized there was nowhere to go, and even if he did get away from them, he wouldn't want to leave Kate there by herself, which would mean he'd have to somehow get her out while she's being monitored. Even if he did get her out, they'd have a pretty long swim ahead of them.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

super dave said:


> I had a hard time at the end when Sawyer was standing there with Ben and 2 armed guards. Last week Sawyer was sizing up all of the others, so there he is 1 on 3. Ben's throat was sticking out screaming "hit me hit me". A shot to the throat will take out anybody. The other 2 numbnuts have their rifles over their shoulders, and that is where there brains will concentrate, their weapons. Not much for Sawyer to take them both down and then disarm them. After watching Super Sawyer take all those shots and still take out a bunch of others I was disappointed he just crumbled to Benry.


The episode ended with Sawyer still on the bluff, and they still have a steep descent ahead of them. Maybe the next episode will pick up where it left off and you'll get your wish, with Sawyer taking advantage of his situation?


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> I think it demonstrated that by that point, Sawyer had been broken. He realized there was nowhere to go, and even if he did get away from them, he wouldn't want to leave Kate there by herself, which would mean he'd have to somehow get her out while she's being monitored. Even if he did get her out, they'd have a pretty long swim ahead of them.


But he would have 2 loaded rifles and the element of surprise, which would get him more weapons after he shoots the guys he really doesnt like. Sawyer likes to win, and giving up is losing. The others seem to get around fine, so to say he has no where to go can't be what he is thinking.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

jlb said:


> If you follow the link posted by *LordKronos*, and then hit next, you get a picture of the map from XXX episode(s) a


Ha... Yeah, you posted the link to my gallery before I could do it myself. I uploaded the photo last night (by the way...that was from season 1, episode 14) and then got distracted and forgot about it before I could post the link. Thanks for "reminding" me about it


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Put me firmly in the they are infertile and are trying to breed people or increase their numbers camp. Seemed really obvious from this episode. She's a fertility doctor, the whole do you love her thing, stealing babies and children, etc. The electromagnetism is rendering them infertile... and causing tumors. The "vaccine" is for fertility maybe...

Gray smoke monster, healing island, and desmond future boy are related. Or they all better be if this show is to survive all the dangling mysteries. Is JJ Abrams as clever as Rob Thomas? I'm not so sure...

Alex is with the others but obviously a bit of a double agent. She's not supposed to be talking to kate and james so that is why she has to sneak.

I liked this episode more than last week's, but I'm starting to have a real issue with the flashback scenes. The characters are becoming more one-dimensional with each flashback. We don't see all the complexities of a human being, we see repeated patterns over and over again. Why bother showing a flashback if it just repeats what we already know about a character? These people are just way too "written" to be interesting enough to survive 5+ flashback episodes.

James is a con man with a heart of gold... NO WAY?!! You mean those other several episodes where he was a con man with a heart of gold weren't bogus?

Jack obsesses over things... same thing

Sun misses the innocent and moral Jin, thinks thoughts of infidelity, and Jin has to compromise his values... same thing

Didn't realize how clever the chinatown comment was until a poster here pointed it out. Holy cow... I've failed myself as a film buff.


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

super dave said:


> I think they set Jack up to see if he was truly a doctor with must save any human morals, so that he can perform spinal surgery on an other and be trusted not to off him/her.


How? By having Sun shoot Colleen? By waiting until Colleen was near-death to call him in to help? I don't think this was a setup in any way, shape, or form. Juliet couldn't save Colleen and they were desperate - so they called in the Dr. to help. I don't think there were any ulterior motives there.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

super dave said:


> But he would have 2 loaded rifles and the element of surprise, which would get him more weapons after he shoots the guys he really doesnt like. Sawyer likes to win, and giving up is losing. The others seem to get around fine, so to say he has no where to go can't be what he is thinking.


That's not necessarily true. Sawyer knows that one of the losties shot one of the others, remember? So he knows his people are around somewhere and they could potentially help. And doesn't he know they have a boat, too? (Can't quite remember.) He just has to figure out where they are and how to connect with them.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Granny said:


> Random thought... You don't suppose Sawyer's "daughter" is a con played on him by his victim/girlfirend, do you?


I thought the same thing... besides... who names their kid Clementine????
oh my dawrling, oh my dawrling...

here's one for you...
ben said he's been on the island his whole life, almost implying he was born there. it would not be unreasonable to think most of the others have also been on the island their whole lives...
if that is true... how does one become a fertility doctor? an MD even?


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

I got the Chinatown remark, but would Pickett have gotten it? 

Do they have Netflix on the island? Have they been throttled?

When did Hurley learn to make such yummy looking fruit salad?

I want answers, dammit!


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

MacThor said:


> When did Hurley learn to make such yummy looking fruit salad?


I was waiting for Hurley to say "Fruit Salad, yummy, yummy!"


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

bruinfan said:


> here's one for you...
> ben said he's been on the island his whole life, almost implying he was born there. it would not be unreasonable to think most of the others have also been on the island their whole lives...
> if that is true... how does one become a fertility doctor? an MD even?


Maybe Ben feels his life began when he arrived on the island, making his statement accurate in his eyes. For some people, "life begins at 40", so why couldn't Ben subscribe to a theory that "life begins with DHARMA", or something to that affect?


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Granny said:


> Random thought... You don't suppose Sawyer's "daughter" is a con played on him by his victim/girlfirend, do you?


Taking it a step further, perhaps the warden was in cahoots with her too, so he could get part of Sawyer's "commission." I mean, what did the warden get out of the deal? - seemed like the feds got their money back and Sawyer his freedom. "Who's Clementine?" could have been a ruse.

Then you'd have a parallel - twice in the same episode, the captors conned the con.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

bruinfan said:


> I thought the same thing... besides... who names their kid Clementine????
> oh my dawrling, oh my dawrling...
> 
> here's one for you...
> ...


The third island has a med school on it. Ranked in the top 20 last year by US News, BTW.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

jschuman said:


> How? By having Sun shoot Colleen? By waiting until Colleen was near-death to call him in to help? I don't think this was a setup in any way, shape, or form. Juliet couldn't save Colleen and they were desperate - so they called in the Dr. to help. I don't think there were any ulterior motives there.


No, I feel they took advantage of the situation of Colleen being shot, that is what I meant. I forgot when you post in these threads people attack your thoughts like lawyers on a TV show. It is a show and that is what I felt at the time he stood next to a woman there was no chance of saving. They always seem to have alterior motives, what has been on the up and up as of yet?


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> The idea that there should be no criticisms of a show in a forum like this is just silly. These forums are for the exchange of views and ideas. Are you telling me that if someone LOVES the show overall, but sees holes in the logic or finds certain storylines less than fully believable or is frustrated that certain story lines seem to have been dropped, that that LOST lover isn't allowed to express them here?
> 
> So relax - if you don't agree with criticisms you see here, just move on to the next post.


FWIW, I don't mind the criticisms, we relish finding plot holes, etc. If you thought some storyline was weak, great, say so, and we can discuss it.

What gets tiresome is the general whining "OMG, this show is so frustrating, I'm going to stop watching.", "Just more mysteries, we didn't learn anything", etc.

To those folks, please stop watching and go away so those of us who did learn things can share them with one another in peace...


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

MacThor said:


> Do they have Netflix on the island? Have they been throttled?


That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Would Netflix dare throttle the others? Where is there nearest shipping center? On that third island?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Jack was in an underwater hatch, right? So maybe he's halfway between the 2 islands and they can go to either one from there through their "tunnel." 

If they formerly lived on the big island, maybe they moved when the Losties crashed. There seems to be lots of them on the small island now. Less chance of being seen. 

If the healing properties are related to the electro-magnetic force, and it's gone now( I know nothing about this--is it gone?) then will diseases start coming back? Maybe Ben has had that tumor on his spine for years, and it didn't matter, but now it will start growing. Rose seemed to think that her cancer would come back if she left the island.(by the way, what happened to Rose and Bernard?)


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Jack was in an underwater hatch, right? So maybe he's halfway between the 2 islands and they can go to either one from there through their "tunnel."


I had that exact thought as soon as Ben showed Sawyer where he was.

Also, I assumed instantly that the story about the pacemaker was a load of BS. Did anyone even consider that it might be true?


----------



## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> I had that exact thought as soon as Ben showed Sawyer where he was.
> 
> Also, I assumed instantly that the story about the pacemaker was a load of BS. Did anyone even consider that it might be true?


Didn't believe the pacemaker and was surprised that Saywer didn't take the monitor off.


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

bruinfan said:


> if that is true... how does one become a fertility doctor? an MD even?


She probably just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.



super dave said:


> No, I feel they took advantage of the situation of Colleen being shot, that is what I meant. I forgot when you post in these threads people attack your thoughts like lawyers on a TV show. It is a show and that is what I felt at the time he stood next to a woman there was no chance of saving. They always seem to have alterior motives, what has been on the up and up as of yet?


I like this idea and it fits in with Benry wanting to leave Jack in there with her a bit longer. (At least in my mind)



stellie93 said:


> Jack was in an underwater hatch, right? So maybe he's halfway between the 2 islands and they can go to either one from there through their "tunnel."


Exactly what I thought.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

MacThor said:


> Do they have Netflix on the island? Have they been throttled?


It seems like they'd need to fly the red envelopes in .... and I don't recall the Losties ever seeing a plane. I suppose they could bring things in by boat ... maybe the Others have a P.O. Box on the mainland about 20 miles from the island that they speed off to once a week in that stylin' sub they got


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

robbhimself said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> it was an eye-patch.. maybe it was a pirate ghost haha





Spoiler



Don't you mean ghost pirate? Where's Korn when you need 'em


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> It seems like they'd need to fly the red envelopes in ....


They got cut off by Netflix after they kept reporting their DVDs.....

_Lost_.


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## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> I had that exact thought as soon as Ben showed Sawyer where he was.
> 
> Also, I assumed instantly that the story about the pacemaker was a load of BS. Did anyone even consider that it might be true?


Having a friend with a pacemaker, I knew immediately it was a sham.

I still don't buy into the "breeding" theory as a motive for abducting Jack and Kate and Sawyer. For one thing, if you are going to use the Losties for breeders, wouldn't it make more sense to have several women and one man? And why not take Sun or Claire, who are both proven fertile. Or are they going to do experiments like UFO aliens, and extract sperm and egg samples for their own nefarious designs? Also, if they are going to use them for breeding, wouldn't they want them to be healthy, rather than barely fed?


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Lee L said:


> I also thought the Desmond golf club thing was very interesting as clearly Desmond either can see the future or has experienced it before and the whole island (


Desmond is a very good sailor (except for the crashing into an island part) so he could easily "read" the weather and know that a storm would be coming soon.

Sorry if I'm smeeking, but haven't seen this so far.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

verdugan said:


> Desmond is a very good sailor (except for the crashing into an island part) so he could easily "read" the weather and know that a storm would be coming soon.


But I'm guessing not even the finest sailor in the world can look up at a sunny sky and say "Hmmm, looks like rain. And lightning. Which is going to strike THIS hut."

The interesting thing is that he seems to be able to change the reality that he is re-living. I wonder if the lightning strike wasn't an experiment?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

verdugan said:


> Desmond is a very good sailor (except for the crashing into an island part) so he could easily "read" the weather and know that a storm would be coming soon.
> 
> Sorry if I'm smeeking, but haven't seen this so far.


I'm fairly certain the writers were not implying that his knowledge as a sailor was what led him to predict the lightning strike. I don't know about you, but even when I'm in the middle of a thunderstorm, I don't prepare to get struck by lightning by erecting a giant lightning rod.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I'm fairly certain the writers were not implying that his knowledge as a sailor was what led him to predict the lightning strike. I don't know about you, but even when I'm in the middle of a thunderstorm, I don't prepare to get struck by lightning by erecting a giant lightning rod.


The sailor thing aside. I think he put the lighting rod so that it would be hit instead of Claire's tent.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

verdugan said:


> The sailor thing aside. I think he put the lighting rod so that it would be hit instead of Claire's tent.


Or was he conning them?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The interesting thing is that he seems to be able to change the reality that he is re-living. I wonder if the lightning strike wasn't an experiment?


Yeah he even called it that! Someone (Hurley?) asked what it was, and he said it was an experiment (maybe a physics experiment? can't remember). I absolutely 100% believed when I saw this that he meant he was experimenting on whether he could change things..


----------



## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

markz said:


> I liked when Charlie called Desmond "Brutha" when he walked up while Desmond was trying to convince Claire to let him fix the roof!


That was classic! :up: 
I liked when Sawyer called (sorry, can't remember his name-the $10 million con) "Costanza!"


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> When Benry said "the sub's back," did it really necessarily mean a submarine? While I would agree that that certainly is a logical conclusion, he could have meant plenty of other things as well - e.g., the "sub-group," the "subordinates," or the "subterraneans." I'm not willing to rule those out altogether, even if the Occam's Razor explanation is "submarine."


Or he could have been saying "The sub's back.......You know, Ben, that party sub that we ordered from Subway? They just dropped it off. Man, that thing is like 20 feet long! Did you want mayo or no mayo???" LOL


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Bananfish said:


> It seems like they'd need to fly the red envelopes in .... and I don't recall the Losties ever seeing a plane. I suppose they could bring things in by boat ... maybe the Others have a P.O. Box on the mainland about 20 miles from the island that they speed off to once a week in that stylin' sub they got


You missed it. In the one episode where where Mr Eko and Locke find the hatch with the written logs and the tubes, there was a 2nd tube that said "Netflix"

-smak-


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## MamaKAS (Jul 28, 2004)

mojomom said:


> I deleted it as soon as I had finished it--that is a first.


What do you normally do with them? In 6 years I can't think of a single show of any kind I haven't deleted after watching it.



jkeegan said:


> Liked the episode.. said that out loud after just the intro (at the first commercial break).
> 
> Definiltely going to smeek on some of this because I'm on page 3 out of 5, but want to post before the thread grows too much.. (will read every post)


I've been reading almost all the LOST threads for the last 3 years, even though I rarely post in them (I just read - try it). Why do you always think your opinions are so much more important than everyone elses? Almost every week you start off with "I know I'm smeeking, but..." Just read the darn thread first and if you have something to add, add it. If everything's been said, don't. As has been said in this thread already - READ THE THREAD, THEN POST.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

MamaKAS said:


> I've been reading almost all the LOST threads for the last 3 years, even though I rarely post in them (I just read - try it). Why do you always think your opinions are so much more important than everyone elses? Almost every week you start off with "I know I'm smeeking, but..." Just read the darn thread first and if you have something to add, add it. If everything's been said, don't. As has been said in this thread already - READ THE THREAD, THEN POST.


 :up: :up:

Reading the thread should be considered part of "the journey."


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I don't think any of us who complain about the show don't like it. I still look forward to it. I just complain that sometimes they make a point and drag it out like 2 or 3 episodes and I get the point already. They give us like a small tidbit of information and the rest is either a definition of a character trait or some other fluff. It's kind of like anticipating going out for a nice meal and you order this wonderful food, and when they serve it to you, the portions are good but really small. So you enjoyed what you ate, but it just wasn't satisfying enough, but the food is good, so you will probably go back. That's how I feel. Like they are giving me small portions of good stuff. Ideally, what I want are BIG portions of GREAT stuff. It definitely beats LOTS of bad crap. That's for sure. You would think though, with all of the main characters, they could give us a lot more. For instance, isn't anyone one here curious about Michael and Walt? Did they make it home? Are they adrift at sea? WIll they wind up back on the Island(s) like Desmond?


Here is the thing about revealing all the mysteries. The amount of time that has passed. It has only been 2 days since Michael and Walt left. Yes, I am wondering about them but there are a lot of other stories to deal with and then there is the matter of those actors not renewing. Remember, we went through a half a season without Michael and almost a season and a half without Walt and . And and I think those were a week or two and 3 to 4 weeks, respectively.

I guess what I am saying is this format of storytelling takes time.

Enjoy the ride.

And I think that's called contemporary fine dining


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

"I'm tired of people complaining about Lost's plot development" is the new "I'm tired of people complaining about Lost's scheduling."


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

"Waaaaaaaallllllllllt! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllt!"

I for one am not missing that!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

verdugan said:


> The sailor thing aside. I think he put the lighting rod so that it would be hit instead of Claire's tent.


Of course he did.


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Bananfish said:


> When Benry said "the sub's back," did it really necessarily mean a submarine? While I would agree that that certainly is a logical conclusion, he could have meant plenty of other things as well - e.g., the "sub-group," the "subordinates," or the "subterraneans." I'm not willing to rule those out altogether, even if the Occam's Razor explanation is "submarine."


I think he probably meant submarine, but, for some reason, that thought didn't occur to me at all while watching this episode. We replayed that line several times trying to figure out what he said when he said "sub."


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> Here's a tip if you use a browser with TABS enabled. If you are just starting to read the thread and see a question and want to answer it, right-click the "quote" link and choose OPEN IN NEW TAB. Leave the new "quote" tab alone and return to the thread to keep reading. Repeat the above as needed until you reach the end of the thread. For each tab that you opened, if the answer was already posted, simply close the tab. If you get to the end of the thread and no one answered the question, return to the "quoted" tab and post your answer.


Hey, thanks. I never thought about doing that.

My method has always been to read to the end and then go back and pick up the comment I want to quote. If by the time I get to the end, I can't remember what I wanted to quote or why (and that happens fairly often), then I decide it wasn't important anyway.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

RBlount said:


> Small (really small) nitpick. Not really a spoiler, but just in case:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The network determined that through focus groups. So it was audience driven.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Figaro said:


> "Waaaaaaaallllllllllt! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllt!"
> 
> I for one am not missing that!


 :up:

I've been thinking it's really funny that people are so irritated about not seeing Michael when Michael himself was so freaking irritating all last season.

I spent all of S2 wishing he was gone, and now he is. I'm fine with it.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

BriGuy20 said:


> The next couple of weeks look good, but it DOES seem like they keep promising EVERYTHING WILL CHANGE! at the end of every episode.


This has been mentioned before, but the networks and not the producers do the promos. Their job is to hype the show the way they see fit. It doesn't necessarily coincide with with what the producers want.

I have even heard Lindeloff say that they don't like the way the networks promos the show but it is out of their hands.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

teknikel said:


> The network determined that through focus groups. So it was audience driven.


Where did you hear that? That is not what the creators say on the DVD.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Figaro said:


> Where did you hear that? That is not what the creators say on the DVD.


I believe in the podcasts or the DVD. Lindeloff says that people were angry in screenings.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

teknikel said:


> I believe in the podcasts or the DVD. Lindeloff says that people were angry in screenings.


How could they be mad in screenings? By the time they started filming they had already decided to keep Jack alive. They never filmed his death.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

drew2k said:


> *<flame suit on>*Here's a tip if you use a browser with TABS enabled. If you are just starting to read the thread and see a question and want to answer it, right-click the "quote" link and choose OPEN IN NEW TAB. Leave the new "quote" tab alone and return to the thread to keep reading. Repeat the above as needed until you reach the end of the thread. For each tab that you opened, if the answer was already posted, simply close the tab. If you get to the end of the thread and no one answered the question, return to the "quoted" tab and post your answer.
> 
> Of course, you may still want to post the same answer that someone else already posted, because that leads to fun times when jackasses like me post helpful tips like this!


Yeah, I am glad for this tip as well. Except I didn't do it for replying to this one.

LOL.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Figaro said:


> How could they be mad in screenings? By the time they started filming they had already decided to keep Jack alive. They never filmed his death.


I recall that they did film it. But I may be off on this. Just what I recall. The drugs may be wearing off.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Or he could have been saying "The sub's back.......You know, Ben, that party sub that we ordered from Subway? They just dropped it off. Man, that thing is like 20 feet long! Did you want mayo or no mayo???" LOL


Good thought.

BTW, Sun did not have sex with Jae even though they were shown naked in bed together.


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> "I'm tired of people complaining about Lost's plot development" is the new "I'm tired of people complaining about Lost's scheduling."


Subtracting from both sides:

"complaining about Lost's plot development" is the new "complaining about Lost's scheduling."


----------



## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

teknikel said:


> I recall that they did film it. But I may be off on this. Just what I recall. The drugs may be wearing off.


They did film it and tested it both ways same with the actual crash it was a lot more to it and more graphic but that was around the time there was a plane crash and they decided to leave most of that part out.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

modnar said:


> I think he probably meant submarine, but, for some reason, that thought didn't occur to me at all while watching this episode. We replayed that line several times trying to figure out what he said when he said "sub."


I actually thought he meant "substitute". Submarine makes more sense though, although "The substitute's back" wasn't too bad either.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

MamaKAS said:


> I've been reading almost all the LOST threads for the last 3 years, even though I rarely post in them (I just read - try it). Why do you always think your opinions are so much more important than everyone elses?


I don't.



MamaKAS said:


> Almost every week you start off with "I know I'm smeeking, but..." Just read the darn thread first and if you have something to add, add it. If everything's been said, don't. As has been said in this thread already - READ THE THREAD, THEN POST.


Yeah but you know, I think there's a difference between people not reading it all and saying 'hey, why did this happen? Why do people think Desmond knows the future?' and people posting observations before finishing, or replies to other posts before finishing..

95% of the time I do the exact multi-tab suggestion made earlier in this thread.. Some times though, I want to get something out before I forget it.. I think it's pretty rare that my early threads ever ask obvious questions before I'm caught up, and i think it's pretty rare that I post things early on that I wouldn't have posted otherwise..

Did you really have the username MamaKAS for 3 years? Before the Lost reference?


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

"Careful in this section of town, boys. The _Lost_ fans are getting restless." 

I didn't care that much for the episode. There, I said it. I will say how I feel, and if you don't like it, feel free to move onto the next post. Same thing goes for when I say I *like* something in an episode. Either way I feel, I'm not leaving because you disagree with me.

Some people, both negative and positive, obviously have some continuing adult education opportunities ahead of them. 

/minor rant mode off


----------



## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> Don't forget Jin gaining back his fertility...ooops, Sun did have an affair!
> 
> He was also terrific in The Practice as serial killer William Hinks (for which he won an Emmy).


I didn't realize that was him on The Practice! He is doing an excellent job with his gig on LOST.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Delta13 said:


> "Careful in this section of town, boys. The _Lost_ fans are getting restless."
> 
> I didn't care that much for the episode. There, I said it. I will say how I feel, and if you don't like it, feel free to move onto the next post. Same thing goes for when I say I *like* something in an episode. Either way I feel, I'm not leaving because you disagree with me.
> 
> ...


If you're directing that reply at me, then know that post like that are totally fine in my opinion.. even posts like "this wasn't my favorite", etc. But some people (not limited to just Doug.. he was just the most recent example) seem to come in here every week and say the show is horrible, and repeat the same post each week.. if it's so horrible, why talk about it, every week?

In general I guess I just think it's good when people are happy.. if people dislike the show enough to say how horrible it is on a regular basis, I think they might be happier watching something else.. And I do also feel that some of us who do enjoy the show (through its ups and downs) would probably be happier too if the same-complaints-every-week weren't putting a wet blanket on something that they enjoy.

Everyone - speak your peace.. You don't need anyone's permission for that. But if you're really so unhappy with something, maybe it's better leaving it alone for others to enjoy (and free up some time for yourself.. you'll be happier too!).. That's all I'm saying. (And Delta, I don't think your comments come anywhere near that)..


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

teknikel said:


> Here is the thing about revealing all the mysteries. The amount of time that has passed. It has only been 2 days since Michael and Walt left. Yes, I am wondering about them but there are a lot of other stories to deal with and then there is the matter of those actors not renewing. Remember, we went through a half a season without Michael and almost a season and a half without Walt and . And and I think those were a week or two and 3 to 4 weeks, respectively.
> 
> I guess what I am saying is this format of storytelling takes time.
> 
> ...


Not to mention that the actor who played Walt has aged a couple years since they started filming the show, while his character is only supposed to be a couple months old. This is no problem for most of the actors, but definitely a problem for someone his age. I wonder if they'll use the same actor when/if they do show Walt again.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mwhip said:


> They did film it and tested it both ways same with the actual crash it was a lot more to it and more graphic but that was around the time there was a plane crash and they decided to leave most of that part out.


I would love to see some proof of that because it is contrary to everything that they said on the Season one DVD's. Not that it isn't possible as they have contradicted themselves before. Still I would like to see some actual proof of that.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

mwhip said:


> They did film it and tested it both ways same with the actual crash it was a lot more to it and more graphic but that was around the time there was a plane crash and they decided to leave most of that part out.


Could you provide a link to this information? (That they filmed a version where Jack dies?)

Every podcast, publication, that I've heard/read, and the first season DVD commentary indicate that Jack dying was never filmed!

Scripted, but not filmed.

They originally planned for him to die in the pilot and Michael Keaton had been cast in the part. When they changed their minds and decided to make him a regular character, Michael Keaton pulled out because he didn't want to commit to being in an entire television series.

Michael Keaton pulled out before one minute (at least of Jack) was filmed *because they had decided not to kill him off.*

It's possible that they had focus groups review both *scripts*, where Jack dies vs. doesn't. This sort of thing is not unheard of.


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

Didn't anyone else notice the topless Kate :up:

I laughed at Sawyer's heart rate spiking and telling Kate to put on some clothes while throwing water on his face  

-murray


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I saw her back. It was okay.


----------



## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

super dave said:


> No, I feel they took advantage of the situation of Colleen being shot, that is what I meant. I forgot when you post in these threads people attack your thoughts like lawyers on a TV show. It is a show and that is what I felt at the time he stood next to a woman there was no chance of saving. They always seem to have alterior motives, what has been on the up and up as of yet?


I'm guessing the 'attack your thoughts' line was directed at me. Sorry if my post came across as an attack - I certainly didn't mean to attack you.

I guess what I was trying to get across was that the series of events that led up to Jack's involvement were completely out of the Others control. I just find it very hard to believe that they were 'testing' Jack - I think they just wanted to save their colleague and he gave them the best chance to do that. Juliet even said something to the effect of 'I should have come and gotten you sooner.'

Now Ben on the other hand, may have realized that (after the fact) he could use the experience to 'motivate' Jack in some way. Thus, making him sit there with the body after she was dead.

I don't think the Others thought there was 'no chance of saving' Colleen when they brought Jack in. How could they know that? All they have is a fertility Dr.


----------



## TomK (May 22, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> If you're directing that reply at me, then know that post like that are totally fine in my opinion.. even posts like "this wasn't my favorite", etc. But some people (not limited to just Doug.. he was just the most recent example) seem to come in here every week and say the show is horrible, and repeat the same post each week.. if it's so horrible, why talk about it, every week?
> 
> In general I guess I just think it's good when people are happy.. if people dislike the show enough to say how horrible it is on a regular basis, I think they might be happier watching something else.. And I do also feel that some of us who do enjoy the show (through its ups and downs) would probably be happier too if the same-complaints-every-week weren't putting a wet blanket on something that they enjoy.
> 
> Everyone - speak your peace.. You don't need anyone's permission for that. But if you're really so unhappy with something, maybe it's better leaving it alone for others to enjoy (and free up some time for yourself.. you'll be happier too!).. That's all I'm saying. (And Delta, I don't think your comments come anywhere near that)..


Maybe those people that state their 'negative' opinions are wanting Lost to be better (to them). There's nothing wrong with that.


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

Delta13 said:


> "Careful in this section of town, boys. The _Lost_ fans are getting restless."
> 
> I didn't care that much for the episode. There, I said it. I will say how I feel, and if you don't like it, feel free to move onto the next post. Same thing goes for when I say I *like* something in an episode. Either way I feel, I'm not leaving because you disagree with me.
> 
> ...


The difference between your post and posts by say... jkeegan (which I enjoy reading) are that he backs up his opinions with statements/observations on the episode... you sir, just simply are publicly whining - and posts like that are simply a waste of space.


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

Bananfish said:


> When Benry said "the sub's back," did it really necessarily mean a submarine? While I would agree that that certainly is a logical conclusion, he could have meant plenty of other things as well - e.g., the "sub-group," the "subordinates," or the "subterraneans." I'm not willing to rule those out altogether, even if the Occam's Razor explanation is "submarine."





MickeS said:


> I actually thought he meant "substitute". Submarine makes more sense though, although "The substitute's back" wasn't too bad either.


I was thinking it was either Submarine, or... Subsitute as in a replacement. Although if it is the later subsitute for what??? a hatch??

I wouldn't put it past the show for it to mean either!!!



super dave said:


> I think they set Jack up to see if he was truly a doctor with must save any human morals, so that he can perform spinal surgery on an other and be trusted not to off him/her.


I doubt it... they really seem to know people... their back stories.. and etc.

I doubt they set up the X-rays for him to view. It looked like they had a critical situation on their hands and they rushed him there to possibly help... Not hoping that he would look at the x-rays... the fact that he did was just something a surgeon would do... just like a someone who's interested in computers stopping and looking to see what might be running on a PC while walking past it.

(this post is pro-tab enabled replies!)


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> If you're directing that reply at me, then know that post like that are totally fine in my opinion.. even posts like "this wasn't my favorite", etc. But some people (not limited to just Doug.. he was just the most recent example) seem to come in here every week and say the show is horrible, and repeat the same post each week.. if it's so horrible, why talk about it, every week?
> 
> In general I guess I just think it's good when people are happy.. if people dislike the show enough to say how horrible it is on a regular basis, I think they might be happier watching something else.. And I do also feel that some of us who do enjoy the show (through its ups and downs) would probably be happier too if the same-complaints-every-week weren't putting a wet blanket on something that they enjoy.
> 
> Everyone - speak your peace.. You don't need anyone's permission for that. But if you're really so unhappy with something, maybe it's better leaving it alone for others to enjoy (and free up some time for yourself.. you'll be happier too!).. That's all I'm saying. (And Delta, I don't think your comments come anywhere near that)..


 :up:

[jkeegan]except that it should be "speak your piece."[/jkeegan]

http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/hold.html


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I liked the "time of death" line. I somewhat anticipated it - that he would instinctively want to "call" it, and then realize that he had absolutely no way of knowing what time it was.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Yeah the sawyer con made no sense. Now he'll be trying to get someone's gun again, take someone hostage, make them take him to the other island. Problem solved... Oh, and he would also bring the 8 bunny with him.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Just had a thought - the sub explains how Ethan got by the guards to kill Scott/Steve in S1.

See, they DO solve mysteries!


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

stevieleej said:


> IMO, the "time of death" line was cheesy. I just didn't buy the idea that Jack had totally gone in to surgeon mode and would have forgotten where he was.


 I don't think he would have to forget where he was to expect there to be a clock in their operating room.

It's interesting that there are two references to time pieces in this episode. No clock in the operating room, and they give Sawyer what looks like a watch, but really just monitors heart rate.


----------



## cmaasfamily (Jan 26, 2006)

OMFG! Had to slog through NINE pages to be sure I won't be accused of smeeking! Sheesh!

Did anyone besides me see that when Kate climbed out of her cage it was raining on her side of the uh, the "zoo area" or whatever we call it? And it stopped when she climbed back in. Wasn't raining on Sawyer's side.

Am I nuts? Was bad it reception; some HD glitch? 

Sure looked like the "something weird is happ'n" rain from season 1 and 2.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Yeah but you know, I think there's a difference between people not reading it all and saying 'hey, why did this happen? Why do people think Desmond knows the future?' and people posting observations before finishing, or replies to other posts before finishing..
> 
> 95% of the time I do the exact multi-tab suggestion made earlier in this thread.. Some times though, I want to get something out before I forget it.. I think it's pretty rare that my early threads ever ask obvious questions before I'm caught up, and i think it's pretty rare that I post things early on that I wouldn't have posted otherwise..
> 
> Did you really have the username MamaKAS for 3 years? Before the Lost reference?


Sorry, but I've gotta agree with MamaKAS on this one. Read the thread, THEN post. It's not about the content of the posts, or whether the observations are backed up with fact, or whether anyone's comments are more valid than others, it's simply about respect for everyone else that has read and posted in the thread. It takes an enourmous amount of time to read these threads, and when someone smeeks because they're too impatient to read to the end, it not only takes the extra time to read that unnecessary post, but it also takes all the extra time when the thread goes off topic like this.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> I don't.
> 
> 95% of the time I do the exact multi-tab suggestion made earlier in this thread.. Some times though, I want to get something out before I forget it..


So type it out in a second tab before you forget it. Don't submit it until you have read the entire thread. What's so hard about that?


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

jschuman said:


> I was waiting for Hurley to say "Fruit Salad, yummy, yummy!"


I think this should be filed in the as-yet-to-be-started "You Know You're a Dad When..." thread.

:up: :up:


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Re: Hurley's fruit salad...

I, too, thought of the Wiggles, but this is also something significant. Hurley's eating a fruit salad, he worked HARD on it, and is about to enjoy it tremendously. Not unhealthy food, healthy food. He's making a conscious effort.

Greg


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

gchance said:


> Re: Hurley's fruit salad...
> 
> I, too, thought of the Wiggles, but this is also something significant. Hurley's eating a fruit salad, he worked HARD on it, and is about to enjoy it tremendously. Not unhealthy food, healthy food. He's making a conscious effort.
> 
> Greg


Probably doing it out of respect to the memory of Libby.

But where did the fresh fruit come from? I thought the drop was all canned goods and non-perishable items. Did that fruit come from the trees on the island?


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

ScottE22 said:


> I think this should be filed in the as-yet-to-be-started "You Know You're a Dad When..." thread.
> 
> :up: :up:


Ohhhhh, I get it now. I didn't catch the reference, but then, we're more of a Nick, Jr. family.


----------



## tms317 (May 2, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> For those who have their interest in this show diminishing rumors are next week is BIG. Not hard to find out the "possible spoiler" but if it holds true it will be a nice to see something actually happen.


Can someone please post this "possible spoiler"?


----------



## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

tms317 said:


> Can someone please post this "possible spoiler"?





Spoiler



a major character dies, not sawyer


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

cmaasfamily said:


> OMFG! Had to slog through NINE pages to be sure I won't be accused of smeeking! Sheesh!


Hey, I can fix this one! 

Wanna only have to slog thru six pages? Change your User CP settings. User CP|Edit Options|Thread Display Options| "Number of Posts to Show Per Page". I set it at the max, 50. Makes scrolling & jumping from page to page easier.

HTH.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Bananfish said:


> When Benry said "the sub's back," did it really necessarily mean a submarine? While I would agree that that certainly is a logical conclusion, he could have meant plenty of other things as well - e.g., the "sub-group," the "subordinates," or the "subterraneans." I'm not willing to rule those out altogether, even if the Occam's Razor explanation is "submarine."


I like Occam's Razor myself. _The sub is back and we have problems _ means the sub_marine_ is back with the injured/shot girl. Simple, clean, efficient.



smickola said:


> I also noticed how quickly Jack fell right back into his ways when he was operating on Colleen. But there was a noticable difference in how quickly he gave up on trying to revive her, and how easily he accepted her dying. Think back to him literally pounding on Charlie when he was trying to revive him...and other incidences in flashbacks where Jack just wouldn't accept that he couldn't save someone. He had no problem giving up on her without putting up much of a fight.


Yes! Hubby and I both said "Why isn't he pounding on her chest?"



cmaasfamily said:


> OMFG! Had to slog through NINE pages to be sure I won't be accused of smeeking! Sheesh!
> 
> Did anyone besides me see that when Kate climbed out of her cage it was raining on her side of the uh, the "zoo area" or whatever we call it? And it stopped when she climbed back in. Wasn't raining on Sawyer's side.
> 
> ...


I didn't notice the rain raining/not raining in two areas, but I did notice that it WAS raining, which weren't people complaining about how it spontaneously rained all the time in S1 and S2 but there was no rain this year?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

ducker said:


> The difference between your post and posts by say... jkeegan (which I enjoy reading) are that he backs up his opinions with statements/observations on the episode... you sir, just simply are publicly whining - and posts like that are simply a waste of space.


  Thanks! Maybe that's even sig worthy.. 



mqpickles said:


> :up:
> [jkeegan]except that it should be "speak your piece."[/jkeegan]
> http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/hold.html


Whoa! Thank you! I hate getting things like that wrong.. as I typed it, I paused and wondered for a 1/4 second about which spelling was right. Glad to learn the correct spelling for the phrase.


----------



## catcard (Mar 2, 2001)

Yes, I also noticed the "phantom" rain when Kate was climbing out of her cage - I thought it was very weird that it was not raining when she went over to Sawyer's cage. Weird....


----------



## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

MamaKAS said:


> jkeegan said:
> 
> 
> > Liked the episode.. said that out loud after just the intro (at the first commercial break).
> ...


 :up: :up: 
Seriously. If you as a poster don't see it necessary to read everyone else's posts, then why should WE read YOURS!? It's like "oooh ohh! listen to what *I* have to say!!! Listen to what *I* have to say!!!! while you've been sitting there ignoring what everyone else has been saying, and oh, btw, they've already said it. Cut these smeeks out, and we wouldn't have to go through 300 posts to catch up.

this isn't directed as an assault on you keegan, just in general to all smeekers, this just happened to be a convenient post to reply to


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Figaro said:


> So type it out in a second tab before you forget it. Don't submit it until you have read the entire thread. What's so hard about that?


Despite the fact that I'm extending the tangent by answering, I'll answer..

The only times I don't do exactly what you just suggested are times when I have to shut down my laptop to take it home from work, or shut it down to bring it back to work. I'll be a few pages back in the thread, with a reply to something someone wrote (for example), and have to decide whether to drop it entirely and not give them the info they're asking for, or to post ahead of time.

The reason I say "I know this _might_ be a smeek, but.." is to show that I regret having to post before finishing the thread.. there's only so much free time in a work day, and I've got a wife and kids that I spend time with.. Some days, there's only so much time I can justify spending on a Lost thread (I barely read the rest of the forum anymore these days - there's no time).

So that's what's so hard, those few times.

Funny that I'm getting the attention for saying "I know this is _might_ be a smeek because I'm 1 page behind out of 14" (after having read 13 pages), whereas others who just smeek without announcing it are written off as smeekers and get no direct complaints..

I don't think I'm really the example of smeeking that you want to target.. Even in the threads where I say I might be smeeking, I don't believe I smeek at all!

Ok, hopefully end of the tangent.

(Not posting this until I'm caught up, lest I smeek someone else's comments about this smeek tangent..  )

..Jeff

p.s. jsmeeker, I for one am sorry your name is getting dragged through the mud.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

milo99 said:


> :up: :up:
> Seriously. If you as a poster don't see it necessary to read everyone else's posts, then why should WE read YOURS!? It's like "oooh ohh! listen to what *I* have to say!!! Listen to what *I* have to say!!!! while you've been sitting there ignoring what everyone else has been saying, and oh, btw, they've already said it. Cut these smeeks out, and we wouldn't have to go through 300 posts to catch up.


Come on.. now you're just jumping on the bandwagon of attacking smeeking in general - you're not talking about me. I'm against smeeking! I'm not the poster boy you think I am.. save it for people who actually smeek and don't read posts.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Come on.. now you're just jumping on the bandwagon of attacking smeeking in general - you're not talking about me. I'm against smeeking! I'm not the poster boy you think I am.. save it for people who actually smeek and don't read posts.


i edited my post i guess while you were replying... i've been attacking smeeking in general on Lost threads from the beginning - when i have time to actually read thru the entire things that is... again, not using this as an assault on you specifically.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

now to comment on the actual episode 

People have theorized that Desmond's lightnight rod experiment was an effort to avert the lightning from Claire's home. I didn't think about this- instead i thought he was just experimenting his future-seeing capabilities. As in, he 'saw' the lightning striking that spot so he put the rod there to catch it. While Claire's roof was just leaky and weak. 

That just seemed like a very precise placement of the rod...


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> Probably doing it out of respect to the memory of Libby.


Is it so wrong of me to start singing "when it says Libby's Libby's Libby's on the label label label. You will like it, like it, like it........"?

Diane


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

milo99 said:


> now to comment on the actual episode
> 
> People have theorized that Desmond's lightnight rod experiment was an effort to avert the lightning from Claire's home. I didn't think about this- instead i thought he was just experimenting his future-seeing capabilities. As in, he 'saw' the lightning striking that spot so he put the rod there to catch it. While Claire's roof was just leaky and weak.
> 
> That just seemed like a very precise placement of the rod...


I think the knowing look that Charlie gave Desmond after the lightning struck signified that Desmond wanted to fix the roof to protect Claire and Aaron, and Charlie suddenly realized that fact.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

milo99 said:


> i edited my post i guess while you were replying... i've been attacking smeeking in general on Lost threads from the beginning - when i have time to actually read thru the entire things that is... again, not using this as an assault on you specifically.


Fair enough.  And again, I agree.. For instance, I _really_ dislike statements like: (made up)

"Well, I certainly don't have time to read through 15 pages, so I'll just say this.. Blah blah blah"

I dislike that type of comment in particular because it flat out says that the original posts won't even be read, ever!

I can't start to count how many times I've _been_ smeeked - I'm usually posting a few minutes after the episodes finish airing, along with other early posters.. It IS annoying having those thoughts flat-out ignored because of their placement..

I think all of the threads are worth reading, and I in fact _*read every post of every Lost thread*_ (well, every official thread - I've been skipping some of the summer Lost game threads entirely).

(The exception is that sometimes, when I'm rushed for time, I'd rather post details I can see on my HD viewing of it (like license plates, text contents of papers they show us, etc) than not post them while I'm in front of the TV.. That's almost always just to post information, not questions.) And once I get to where I'm going, I still always catch up!

Similar to what you said, this reply isn't even as much to your post, it's just a convenient place to state my anti-smeeking stance (and rare-smeek-defense) again. 

So, was there anything interesting in the watch numbers of his heartbeat? Haven't been able to go back and rewatch this week's episode yet.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> I think the knowing look that Charlie gave Desmond after the lightning struck signified that Desmond wanted to fix the roof to protect Claire and Aaron, and Charlie suddenly realized that fact.


yea, see i interpreted that as an acknowledgement towards the wind and rain are killing their roof and making a messs of things, and then HOLY S**T what was that lightning rod display!?

eh, i guess we'll find out soon enough which one it was supposed to be.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> I think the knowing look that Charlie gave Desmond after the lightning struck signified that Desmond wanted to fix the roof to protect Claire and Aaron, and Charlie suddenly realized that fact.


Agreed, that was a good definitive look from Charlie that he was starting to catch on.

I also liked that they had Hurley about to walk away, and Desmond tell him that he probably should stay put for a minute.. He wanted him to see.. Interesting..


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Why do people announce that they've just smeeked? Smeek if you must. If you get busted, lie. Say you somehow must have missed that post that's very, very similar to yours. These boards aren't all that important enough to have a page full of fights about it.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

oh yea, the other thing about Desmond- um, in his advice to the golfer dude- and this is a jab at the writers, but i really hate it when they have a character say something that's supposed to sound simple and profound as advice, portraying that he knows what he's talking about. So they have him say "you might want to square the shoulders" - I mean, wtf does that mean? (yes, i golf). how is that supposed to help the dude's stroke??? Square them at address? on the backswing, downswing, at impact?? ARG. 
</rant>


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

I can't believe you guys are buying the 2nd island thing! 

I just can't believe that the Losties have trampled all over their island and haven't caught even one glimpse of this island sitting about a mile away?? I don't buy that for a second. 

I am happy that the pacemaker bit was a hoax. If they actually put one in him, I would've cancelled my SP immediately. That's just waaaay to ridiculous.

I enjoyed the Sawyer backstory. Didn't reveal too much but it was still interesting. I was also happy the ep was Sawyer-heavy. He's by far the most entertaining Lostie. His "Constanza" comment in prison had me rolling.

I'm not sure what Benry was trying to accomplish with him, though. So he conned him. That's great. But then he told him that he conned him. So now Sawyer is going to be a lot more careful in the future. So what? What was the point of all this?

I still like the show. I can see the writers losing their grip on the audience, though. You can see that just from the small sampling here on this forum. Next week looks good, though. Let's see if it really does CHANGE EVERYTHING!


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

Supfreak26 said:


> I still like the show. I can see the writers losing their grip on the audience, though. You can see that just from the small sampling here on this forum. Next week looks good, though. Let's see if it really does CHANGE EVERYTHING!


I think this is a MAJOR problem for Lost, or any other show that has such a 'continuing' story. How can they possibly hope to _increase_ viewership substantially? Sure, they may get some people that watch the DVDs to catch up - and they may get some more people that watch the summarization episodes and jump aboard.

But realistically, the number of people that watch this show can only go down. It is just too hard to jump on in without some MAJOR commitment to getting yourself up to speed.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jschuman said:


> I think this is a MAJOR problem for Lost, or any other show that has such a 'continuing' story. How can they possibly hope to _increase_ viewership substantially? Sure, they may get some people that watch the DVDs to catch up - and they may get some more people that watch the summarization episodes and jump aboard.
> 
> But realistically, the number of people that watch this show can only go down. It is just too hard to jump on in without some MAJOR commitment to getting yourself up to speed.


This may be true once in season 2 or 3, but Lost did exactly that in season 1. Many people never watched it until the buzz built and built and they finally decided to check it out and see what the hype was all about.


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> This may be true once in season 2 or 3, but Lost did exactly that in season 1. Many people never watched it until the buzz built and built and they finally decided to check it out and see what the hype was all about.


Agreed. Of course in season 1 it was somewhat easy to get a coworker or friend up to speed. Just try and give someone the 5 minute synopsis now!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jschuman said:


> Agreed. Of course in season 1 it was somewhat easy to get a coworker or friend up to speed. Just try and give someone the 5 minute synopsis now!


There's a bunch of people who make the same mistakes over and over and over again in their life stuck on an island where weird stuff is happening. No matter how hard they try to figure out what's happening on the island, they never can make sense of it because the island is the logical proof that you can never assume the present will behave like the past because every rule on the island changes every few episodes.

There... I did it!!!


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> There's a bunch of people who make the same mistakes over and over and over again in their life stuck on an island where weird stuff is happening. No matter how hard they try to figure out what's happening on the island, they never can make sense of it because the island is the logical proof that you can never assume the present will behave like the past because every rule on the island changes every few episodes.
> 
> There... I did it!!!


lol. Awesome.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> There's a bunch of people who make the same mistakes over and over and over again in their life stuck on an island where weird stuff is happening. No matter how hard they try to figure out what's happening on the island, they never can make sense of it because the island is the logical proof that you can never assume the present will behave like the past because every rule on the island changes every few episodes.
> 
> There... I did it!!!


Sounds riveting! If I weren't already watching it, I sure would now!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> There's a bunch of people who make the same mistakes over and over and over again in their life stuck on an island where weird stuff is happening. No matter how hard they try to figure out what's happening on the island, they never can make sense of it because the island is the logical proof that you can never assume the present will behave like the past because every rule on the island changes every few episodes.
> 
> There... I did it!!!


Why are you talking about "Survivor" in a thread about "Lost"?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Supfreak26 said:


> I can't believe you guys are buying the 2nd island thing!
> 
> I just can't believe that the Losties have trampled all over their island and haven't caught even one glimpse of this island sitting about a mile away?? I don't buy that for a second.


I can't believe you didn't read the whole thread! 

Seriously, though, somebody earlier posted a link to a still from the show showing the Village and the Losties' and Tailies' crash sites. The main island is big--I mean, HUGE--and all three sites are along one side of it. It is not at ALL unreasonable that there are two more islands that nobody has ever seen before.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Why are you talking about "Survivor" in a thread about "Lost"?


Aren't Kate and Sawyer on Exile Island?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

robbhimself said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> a major character dies, not sawyer





Spoiler



Yes. Evangeline Lily did an interview on a Detroit radio station the day before the season premeire, and she said (among other things, like her urine drinking story  ) that a major character would die in the first 6 episodes. I don't think Colleen qualifies as major, so something should still be coming.

Personally, I hope Michael and Walt return to the Island, Desmond says "Michael....could you do me a favor and stand here for a few minutes, brother" and waits for the next thunderstorm to roll in.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Why are you talking about "Survivor" in a thread about "Lost"?


Hey, if I can talk about Lost in a thread about every other TV show, I can talk about Survivor in a Lost thread.


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## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

I liked this episode well-enough. I liked the Sawyer back story, though I think it's time we start having more back story on some other characters. Hurley is one I'd like to see more about, particularly if they bring the numbers back into play.

Some random thoughts:

- I think Sawyer's "daughter" is a con. If I remember correctly, didn't Sawyer and the woman meet because they were both into conning and she wanted to learn about long cons? What better way to show him what she learned than to con him herself?

- The whole pacemaker thing was lame. Firstly, no such device even exists so they'd have to take an ordinary pacemaker and heavily modify it. Not saying that that isn't possible (they are the others, after all!), but I see it as highly improbable. Even lamer that Sawyer accepted their explanation without further questioning. Has the conman gone soft?

- Desmond's lightening rod. I think that he knew lightening was going to strike at that exact location and his "experiment" was trying to harness the electricity from it. I don't have much speculation on how he knew or exactly what he was going to do with his stored electricity, though. But just like some other posters way back in this thread, I immediately thought of BTTF too!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

niea_7 said:


> I liked this episode well-enough. I liked the Sawyer back story, though I think it's time we start having more back story on some other characters. Hurley is one I'd like to see more about, particularly if they bring the numbers back into play.


I'd rather see about the two new people. Or is it three now? Hurley would just be... "my money causes suffering and I'm depressed" flashbacks...


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

niea_7 said:


> The whole pacemaker thing was lame. Firstly, no such device even exists so they'd have to take an ordinary pacemaker and heavily modify it.


Prepare to be educated:
Implantable cardioverter-defibrillator

Of course, the instant we learn that their only doctor is a fertility doctor, the game was pretty much up (I expect you'd need a bit of surgical skill to install a pacemaker).


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

If it was me, I'd think it was a 98% certainty that nothing would happen if my pulse went too high. On the other hand, as niea said, they are the others, and I'm not sure I'd want to take that 2% chance. But then Sawyer doesn't seem nearly as cautious as me.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

yeah.. see.. we've already SEEN that test, and they did it! They had a button to push - push it, or bad things happen - but it's probably all fake (well, it wasn't). They pushed the button just-in-case - it's conceivable he'd watch his heart rate just-in-case too.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

How is it that Sawyer and Kate haven't figured out they're under surveillance?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> How is it that Sawyer and Kate haven't figured out they're under surveillance?


Yah, that was soooo stupid. But here's the thing: I can't believe Benry gave up this advantage. He had Sawyer right where he wanted him: he wasn't going to risk Kate by telling her anything. Benry could have continued to watch and listen and learned everything there was to know about what Kate was thinking about, etc.

And he just voluntarily coughs it up that he has no leverage on Sawyer any more: the first thing Sawyer will do when he gets back is tell Kate about the surveillance and they'll start to get much trickier about their plans.

I just don't get it. Yes, yes, the whole pacemaker implant thing was obviously fake, but Sawyer believed it, or at least enough to keep him in line for now. Benry's stated reason for throwing that all away (to get Sawyer's "respect") seems pretty lame.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Prepare to be educated:
> Implantable cardioverter-defibrillator
> 
> Of course, the instant we learn that their only doctor is a fertility doctor, the game was pretty much up (I expect you'd need a bit of surgical skill to install a pacemaker).


And I'm sure no matter _how_ much surgical skill you have, you'd leave a scar, wouldn't you? Not just a puncture wound from the needle.


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## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Prepare to be educated:
> Implantable cardioverter-defibrillator
> 
> Of course, the instant we learn that their only doctor is a fertility doctor, the game was pretty much up (I expect you'd need a bit of surgical skill to install a pacemaker).


You misunderstood. There is no device designed to cause a person's heart explode if it beats too fast. The ICD you mentioned is a device to save a person's life if their heart were to beat too fast, so not the same thing. The "heavy modification" I mentioned referred to the fact that they'd have to modify one of these ICDs to instantly destroy a person's heart. If you know of such a device, yes, please "educate" me. Otherwise, I stand by what I said. . no such device exists.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

madscientist said:


> Yah, that was soooo stupid. But here's the thing: I can't believe Benry gave up this advantage. He had Sawyer right where he wanted him: he wasn't going to risk Kate by telling her anything. Benry could have continued to watch and listen and learned everything there was to know about what Kate was thinking about, etc.
> 
> And he just voluntarily coughs it up that he has no leverage on Sawyer any more: the first thing Sawyer will do when he gets back is tell Kate about the surveillance and they'll start to get much trickier about their plans.
> 
> I just don't get it. Yes, yes, the whole pacemaker implant thing was obviously fake, but Sawyer believed it, or at least enough to keep him in line for now. Benry's stated reason for throwing that all away (to get Sawyer's "respect") seems pretty lame.


That was Ben's _stated_ reason which is probably not the whole truth.
Personally, I think he enjoys screwing with Ford's head and the more he screws with Ford's head, the more he tears down his psyche.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I can't believe you didn't read the whole thread!
> 
> Seriously, though, somebody earlier posted a link to a still from the show showing the Village and the Losties' and Tailies' crash sites. The main island is big--I mean, HUGE--and all three sites are along one side of it. It is not at ALL unreasonable that there are two more islands that nobody has ever seen before.


Yeah I read the entire thread. And yes I saw the still.

I still don't buy it. If it was way off in the distance, sure. I'll drink the kool-aid. But that island was CLOSE!

I'll accept it and move on just like I do with most movies and TV shows. But my first reaction to that discovery was 

And Benry's whole idea to bring him up there and show him was stupid too. He knows there's a way the Others get back and forth and he'll be more determined now to figure out how.

I'm not really here to Lost-bash. I am a bit dissatisfied with this season so far, though. I think it's mainly because of the Others. I'm more interested in the mysteries of the island than these whackjobs.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Supfreak26 said:


> Yeah I read the entire thread. And yes I saw the still.
> 
> I still don't buy it. If it was way off in the distance, sure. I'll drink the kool-aid. But that island was CLOSE!
> 
> I'll accept it and move on just like I do with most movies and TV shows. But my first reaction to that discovery was


But how on Earth would they see it--COULD they see it--if it were on the other side of the island, probably dozens of miles from where the Losties are?!? With a big honkin' mountain range in between?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

niea_7 said:


> You misunderstood. There is no device designed to cause a person's heart explode if it beats too fast. The ICD you mentioned is a device to save a person's life if their heart were to beat too fast, so not the same thing. The "heavy modification" I mentioned referred to the fact that they'd have to modify one of these ICDs to instantly destroy a person's heart. If you know of such a device, yes, please "educate" me. Otherwise, I stand by what I said. . no such device exists.


First of all, I hope you realized the "explode" thing was just exaggeration on Ben's part. Second, no "heavy" modification would be needed. One simple change would suffice...have it generate a much stronger shock. Third, even without modification, would you suspect that a first generation version of this device (perhaps one that was never even able to achieve FDA approval) might be a bit buggy and could fail under certain circumstances? Especially if it was installed improperly (on purpose)?

Finally...you said the whole issue was "lame" when in fact, it was MUCH closer to reality than much of the stuff in this show, so you'd probably have to claim the entire show is lame.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

ScottE22 said:


> And I'm sure no matter _how_ much surgical skill you have, you'd leave a scar, wouldn't you? Not just a puncture wound from the needle.


Maybe I didn't see what I thought I saw, but I _thought_ that when sawyer pulled back the bandage there was a scar there, at least an inch long (couldn't see just how long, because he only pulled it back partway).

These days, much heart surgery is being performed by making a small incision and going between the ribs (or sometimes by cracking one rib). I've got a 12" scar down my chest from my last heart surgery 20 years ago. My doctor has told me that when it comes time to have my valve replaced again, they'll be able to do it in such a manner instead of cutting me wide open. And that's for installing an entire valve...a procedure much more involved than a simple pacemaker.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

madscientist said:


> Yah, that was soooo stupid. But here's the thing: I can't believe Benry gave up this advantage. He had Sawyer right where he wanted him: he wasn't going to risk Kate by telling her anything. Benry could have continued to watch and listen and learned everything there was to know about what Kate was thinking about, etc.


Maybe sawyer is useless to them in such a pacified state. They didn't want to completely destroy his spirit...just prove to him that THEY have the upper hand. Why that would be, I don't know.



> the first thing Sawyer will do when he gets back is tell Kate about the surveillance and they'll start to get much trickier about their plans.


Maybe I missed it, but did he tell Sawyer about the surveillance? I think the only way sawyer could figure out the surveillance would be from the fact that Ben turned off the electricity to the cage before he came out.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

Maybe Kate has figured out that they're under surveillance...and that's why she went back into the cage?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> I still don't buy it. If it was way off in the distance, sure. I'll drink the kool-aid. But that island was CLOSE!


How do you know it was so CLOSE? When you are out in the water, with no real scale to anything....nothing nearby to give depth clues, it's VERY difficult to judge distance. An island 5 miles away looks roughly the same as an island twice as big 10 miles away. If you've ever been to the mountains, you'll probably notice the same thing. It looks like you are right there. Then you drive a whole bunch more and you still aren't there....and the mountains don't really look any closer than they did last time.

A similar example about the lack of depth cues in the water. If you happen to watch survivor, one of the prior seasons they started the game with a race to the shoreline (I think i was the first person or 2 to the shore got immunity). Well, they are going along in their boat, and a couple of them think "we're hardly moving...I can swim a lot faster than this". They jump out of the boat and realize they were very wrong.

So, from your post, I take it you think that's part of the same island? If so, that would have to be one heck of a C shaped island. As sawer was standing there looking at the island, he turned to his right to look back at the island he was standing on. There was no land visible out in the ocean. Then in the final scene, you can see off to Sawyers right, and there is no land visible out in that direction either. No land visible in either direction.

In addition, I've already posted a photo of Reusso's maps, which shows 3 islands together. I assume she was drawing maps of the area, and theres nothing there to suggest such a C shaped island.

From those maps, and what we've seen this episode, it seems pretty clear that is another island completely. The only thing we don't know is if Ben told the truth about this island being as small as it is, and about it NOT being the island Sawyer's been living on.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

smickola said:


> Maybe Kate has figured out that they're under surveillance...and that's why she went back into the cage?


I thought she went back into the cage because it was clear Sawyer wasn't interested in escaping at the moment, and she wasn't about to leave without him.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

niea_7 said:


> Some random thoughts:
> 
> - I think Sawyer's "daughter" is a con. If I remember correctly, didn't Sawyer and the woman meet because they were both into conning and she wanted to learn about long cons? What better way to show him what she learned than to con him herself?


If the daughter was a con, what was the woman planning on gaining from it? Unless she was also in on the money thing with the warden? And if it was truly a con, how would she know that Sawyer would have a change of heart about the daughter and would give the money to Clementine?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

niea_7 said:


> You misunderstood. There is no device designed to cause a person's heart explode if it beats too fast. The ICD you mentioned is a device to save a person's life if their heart were to beat too fast, so not the same thing. The "heavy modification" I mentioned referred to the fact that they'd have to modify one of these ICDs to instantly destroy a person's heart. If you know of such a device, yes, please "educate" me. Otherwise, I stand by what I said. . no such device exists.


Modifying the electronics of a *defribulator* to turn it into a *fribulator* would not be terribly difficult. Simply put, if it delivered a steady moderate voltage instead of a high voltage pulse, it would fribulate the heart rather than defribulate it. Of course, such a device wouldn't exist "off the shelf".

However, I assumed from the get-go that it was a con. It didn't seem that Ben's group had either the expertise to modify such a device or to implant it.

While watching the show I did assume that on the teeny-tiny outside chance that it wasn't a con, that the word "explode" was a euphemism for "fail", or be fribulated. I suppose they could interface an explosive charge onto a defribulator, so that when it delivered it's pulse the charge blew up...


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

niea_7 said:


> - The whole pacemaker thing was lame. Firstly, no such device even exists so they'd have to take an ordinary pacemaker and heavily modify it. Not saying that that isn't possible (they are the others, after all!), but I see it as highly improbable. Even lamer that Sawyer accepted their explanation without further questioning. Has the conman gone soft?


What difference does it make whether such a device exists? As long as Sawyer believes it, which is the point of the con. If he didn't believe it, then they move to the next mind - f.

And another thing, no such island exists (I think).

kel


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## MamaKAS (Jul 28, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Did you really have the username MamaKAS for 3 years? Before the Lost reference?


I've been using that username for at least 6 years on various forums and it's my license plate. I'm not even sure what you mean by the Lost reference.



jkeegan said:


> Despite the fact that I'm extending the tangent by answering, I'll answer...


I'll do the same.



jkeegan said:


> The only times I don't do exactly what you just suggested are times when I have to shut down my laptop to take it home from work, or shut it down to bring it back to work. I'll be a few pages back in the thread, with a reply to something someone wrote (for example), and have to decide whether to drop it entirely and not give them the info they're asking for, or to post ahead of time.


That's why, if I know I don't have time to read the whole thread I don't even start. I'll just read it the next day (or I won't reply).



jkeegan said:


> The reason I say "I know this _might_ be a smeek, but.." is to show that I regret having to post before finishing the thread.. there's only so much free time in a work day, and I've got a wife and kids that I spend time with.. Some days, there's only so much time I can justify spending on a Lost thread (I barely read the rest of the forum anymore these days - there's no time).


Correct. And posting before reading the thread runs the possibility of stating things that have already been stated, thereby reducing the time others have to spend with their family's because they have to read the same things multiple times. If you can't justify the time, don't spend it here.



jkeegan said:


> Funny that I'm getting the attention for saying "I know this is _might_ be a smeek because I'm 1 page behind out of 14" (after having read 13 pages), whereas others who just smeek without announcing it are written off as smeekers and get no direct complaints..
> 
> I don't think I'm really the example of smeeking that you want to target.. Even in the threads where I say I might be smeeking, I don't believe I smeek at all!


Yes, you are the example. Many times "newbies" hit the thread and they don't necessarily know any better so they just speak their mind. You've been around long enough to know that you should read the whole thread and that not doing so tends to make the thread longer than it needs to be, thereby wasting peoples time, yet you make a conscious decision to do it anyway. That's far worse.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

MamaKAS said:


> I've been using that username for at least 6 years on various forums and it's my license plate. I'm not even sure what you mean by the Lost reference.


Season 2 opener -- Desmond in the hatch; he puts on "Make your own kind of music" by Mama Cass Elliott.


----------



## MamaKAS (Jul 28, 2004)

wprager said:


> Season 2 opener -- Desmond in the hatch; he puts on "Make your own kind of music" by Mama Cass Elliott.


Ah. Remember that now. I'm also a Mama's and Papa's fan, but it has nothing to do with the moniker. I'm a mom and KAS are my initials.


----------



## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> First of all, I hope you realized the "explode" thing was just exaggeration on Ben's part. Second, no "heavy" modification would be needed. One simple change would suffice...have it generate a much stronger shock. Third, even without modification, would you suspect that a first generation version of this device (perhaps one that was never even able to achieve FDA approval) might be a bit buggy and could fail under certain circumstances? Especially if it was installed improperly (on purpose)?
> 
> Finally...you said the whole issue was "lame" when in fact, it was MUCH closer to reality than much of the stuff in this show, so you'd probably have to claim the entire show is lame.


I'm not sure where it was explained that the "explode" thing was, in fact, an exaggeration? If you can point me to that dialog that I obviously missed, I'd really appreciate it.

So we come at it from two angles: that of Sawyer or that of the viewing audience.

Sawyer believed Ben and what he said, even the "exploding" part. I saw no indication that Sawyer thought Ben's comment was an exaggeration.

As the viewing audience, I can see why Ben's words weren't taken as fact. Because we, as the viewing audience, have more information than Sawyer or any one person on the island. From this perspective, I can see why one might assume the "exploding" comment was an exaggeration. But even so, I don't fully buy it considering Ben has been pretty matter-of-fact all along.

I still contend that the whole thing was lame. I think the explanation Ben gave to Sawyer was lame and I think it was a lame plot device. I think the writing could have better and I think more could have come out of it, story-wise. It's fine if you don't agree with me. That's my opinion and nothing else.

I'm not sure why I'd have to think the whole show is lame if I only have a problem with one small scene? It seems like you're taking my opinon it awfully personally.


----------



## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> Modifying the electronics of a *defribulator* to turn it into a *fribulator* would not be terribly difficult. Simply put, if it delivered a steady moderate voltage instead of a high voltage pulse, it would fribulate the heart rather than defribulate it. Of course, such a device wouldn't exist "off the shelf".
> 
> However, I assumed from the get-go that it was a con. It didn't seem that Ben's group had either the expertise to modify such a device or to implant it.
> 
> While watching the show I did assume that on the teeny-tiny outside chance that it wasn't a con, that the word "explode" was a euphemism for "fail", or be fribulated. I suppose they could interface an explosive charge onto a defribulator, so that when it delivered it's pulse the charge blew up...


That's pretty much my point, though I suppose you've done a much better job and explaining it than I have.

The device doesn't exist "off the shelf", which means it would need to be modified to meet their needs. But I don't think the Others have enough expertise or equipment to modify it themselves. It seemed to me that the assumption was made that such a device fell from the sky (or wherever all their other supplies come from) all ready to go for their use. That assumption made by the writers is what I had the biggest problem with.

I used the term "heavy modificiation" to indicate that the modifications were beyond the scope of the Others. It's trivial if that's your specialty or you're well acquainted with such medical devices, of course, but from the perspective of the Others doing it, it's more complex.


----------



## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

jenhudson said:


> If the daughter was a con, what was the woman planning on gaining from it? Unless she was also in on the money thing with the warden? And if it was truly a con, how would she know that Sawyer would have a change of heart about the daughter and would give the money to Clementine?


I'm not sure, to be honest. There wasn't a good way for her to know what would happen and if he'd get money or leave it to her.

I went with this theory because I think it would be fitting. I also thought though that in the episode "The Long Con" there were quite a few assumptions made by Sawyer. Things that he wouldn't know would happen or how he'd benefit. . yet somehow he was still able to con her.

So I thought that she may be out to con him now, even if she didn't have all the details on exactly how she'd do it. Maybe she thought she'd start off with the story of the child (who may or may not exist, I don't know) and take it from there. Maybe it all turned out easier than she was expecting.


----------



## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

teknikel said:


> What difference does it make whether such a device exists? As long as Sawyer believes it, which is the point of the con. If he didn't believe it, then they move to the next mind - f.


From the perspective that it really _is_ just a con, then no, it doesn't matter at all. Maybe they didn't implant anything at all and just gave him a gash on his chest so he would think they did.

If they really wanted him to believe it, though, I would have thought they'd come up with something better. Because once Sawyer calls their bluff and is still alive to tell about it, they lose whatever credibility they have.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

niea_7 said:


> I'm not sure where it was explained that the "explode" thing was, in fact, an exaggeration? If you can point me to that dialog that I obviously missed, I'd really appreciate it.


I wonder what you think when you hear someone say "you broke my heart".


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

Ben demonstrated exactly what would supposedly happen to Sawyer with the bunny. He scared it until it got agitated and its heart raced, then it died. I didn't see any "explosion", I gathered he was indicating that it was just a shock at the wrong time that would kill him.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Cool! Buy the Hatch painting:
https://www.shop.thehatchpainting.com/


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

LOST commercial in Russian:
http://www.lostlinks.net/videos/russia.htm

Privet.
Ya Hurley.
Ya Jack
Ya Kate.

(Browsing Lost sites this morning.)


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> LOST commercial in Russian:
> http://www.lostlinks.net/videos/russia.htm
> 
> Privet.
> ...


That was hilarious, but I'm sure it was not meant to be. I couldn't make out what Jack said beyond "Privet, Ya Jack". It's a promo for Lost starting скоро (soon) on some Russian channel called The First or The One.

Back in my day we had four channels, #3 was educational (ran class material during school hours) and one channel (#4?) only came on in the evenings. And, of couse, we never had any American programming on. Some things have really changed.

The promo was shot in Hawaii. I'm sure some network execs went on the shoot to make sure the crew did it right. Some things never change.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Sawyer's nicknames from the first two seasons (from the Season Two DVD, I think):


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

The cartoon Jack was watching probably looked familiar if you've seen many Merrie Melodies shorts:

"A Corny Concerto" is a 1943 Merrie Melodies cartoon made by Warner Bros. The cartoon was directed by Bob Clampett and written by Frank Tashlin. It features music that was composed by Johann Strauss, and was intended as a parody of Disney's Fantasia and so displays a great degree of timing with the music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Corny_Concerto


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> The cartoon Jack was watching probably looked familiar if you've seen many Merrie Melodies shorts:
> 
> "A Corny Concerto" is a 1943 Merrie Melodies cartoon made by Warner Bros. The cartoon was directed by Bob Clampett and written by Frank Tashlin. It features music that was composed by Johann Strauss, and was intended as a parody of Disney's Fantasia and so displays a great degree of timing with the music.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Corny_Concerto


The 3/4" deck that was under the monitor seemed to be the source of the cartoon but it looked like the timecode was not moving but I was watching in SD. Can anyone watching in HD confirm? Not a very important point but if the deck shown wasn't the source of the video, what was?

kel


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> LOST commercial in Russian:
> http://www.lostlinks.net/videos/russia.htm
> 
> Privet.
> ...


GREAT link!

The Hurley clip reminded me of Hiro & waffles.

YES!!!! I referenced Heroes in the Lost thread! HAH!

Ya Hurley.

Greg


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> How do you know it was so CLOSE? When you are out in the water, with no real scale to anything....nothing nearby to give depth clues, it's VERY difficult to judge distance. An island 5 miles away looks roughly the same as an island twice as big 10 miles away. If you've ever been to the mountains, you'll probably notice the same thing. It looks like you are right there. Then you drive a whole bunch more and you still aren't there....and the mountains don't really look any closer than they did last time.


It was close enough that if you were to get anywhere near the coast on the other island, you would have seen the island that Sawyer and company were on. No question about that. Plus, Sawyer was standing on a huge cliff that apparently was very near to the water so that would be visable from far away. I'm not going to guess how far apart these islands are. I'm just saying that I find it near impossible that the Losties have never seen it across the water.



LordKronos said:


> So, from your post, I take it you think that's part of the same island? If so, that would have to be one heck of a C shaped island. As sawer was standing there looking at the island, he turned to his right to look back at the island he was standing on. There was no land visible out in the ocean. Then in the final scene, you can see off to Sawyers right, and there is no land visible out in that direction either. No land visible in either direction.
> 
> In addition, I've already posted a photo of Reusso's maps, which shows 3 islands together. I assume she was drawing maps of the area, and theres nothing there to suggest such a C shaped island.
> 
> From those maps, and what we've seen this episode, it seems pretty clear that is another island completely. The only thing we don't know is if Ben told the truth about this island being as small as it is, and about it NOT being the island Sawyer's been living on.


I'm not saying it's the same island. I'm saying this was sloppy writing. Sure there was a map shown but the French lady that showed 3 islands but that was back in season 1!! I didn't even know this until I read it here. How is the average viewer supposed to remember that?

Just a lame ending in an otherwise good episode.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> It was close enough that if you were to get anywhere near the coast on the other island, you would have seen the island that Sawyer and company were on. No question about that. Plus, Sawyer was standing on a huge cliff that apparently was very near to the water so that would be visable from far away. I'm not going to guess how far apart these islands are. I'm just saying that I find it near impossible that the Losties have never seen it across the water.
> 
> I'm not saying it's the same island. I'm saying this was sloppy writing. Sure there was a map shown but the French lady that showed 3 islands but that was back in season 1!! I didn't even know this until I read it here. How is the average viewer supposed to remember that?
> 
> Just a lame ending in an otherwise good episode.


They have barely explored the island. Of cours it's possible for them to have not seen the other island. Sayeed had only walked a little ways when he was captured. They only sailed around to the other side. No one has circumnavigated the island except for Frenchie and go figure, she has a map showing multiple islands. I don't get why you have such a problem with this.


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Figaro said:


> They have barely explored the island. Of cours it's possible for them to have not seen the other island. Sayeed had only walked a little ways when he was captured. They only sailed around to the other side. No one has circumnavigated the island except for Frenchie and go figure, she has a map showing multiple islands. I don't get why you have such a problem with this.


1. They've spent a lot of time exploring that island. Climbed a few mountains. Sailed around quite a bit of the coastline.

2. If the main island was really as big as you guys seem to think it is, why isn't it charted? Seriously.

3. The islands were close enough that you could see details on the beach across the water.

4. Sawyer is standing on a huge cliff very near the water. That increases the chance of it being seen from the main island. If it were a low-lying island, It'd be more believable.

I don't get why any of you AREN'T having a problem with this.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Supfreak26 said:


> 2. If the main island was really as big as you guys seem to think it is, why isn't it charted? Seriously.


Oh, I don't know, maybe the same reason people keep crashing on the island, and people are magically healed, and yadda yadda yadda?

You may not have noticed, but a lot of really strange things happen around this island. What's bizarre is your absolute refusal to believe the shot that they gave us of the island on the show, showing how bloody huge it is. It would probably take the entire time they've been there just to walk around it.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> 1. They've spent a lot of time exploring that island. Climbed a few mountains. Sailed around quite a bit of the coastline.


They have barely moved around it. They went up one "mountain." Look at the pictures of the island it is huge.



Supfreak26 said:


> 2. If the main island was really as big as you guys seem to think it is, why isn't it charted? Seriously.


It's been pretty clear from the get go that there is something wacky about the island. Ben even said that not even god can see the island. If this is a problem for you I don't know how you can deal with things like smoke monsters and all the other weird stuff going on.



Supfreak26 said:


> 3. The islands were close enough that you could see details on the beach across the water.


Yeah it was close. Obviously close to the part of the island that they have never been too.



Supfreak26 said:


> 4. Sawyer is standing on a huge cliff very near the water. That increases the chance of it being seen from the main island. If it were a low-lying island, It'd be more believable.


Well from the distant parts of the island that they are on, if the other islands hills are even visible, they probably look like they are on the same island.



Supfreak26 said:


> I don't get why any of you AREN'T having a problem with this.


See all my reasons above.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Supfreak26 said:


> 1. They've spent a lot of time exploring that island. Climbed a few mountains.


Think about it this way... I've been to various parts of the Rocky Mountains, and when you're up on a mountain, you can't necessarily see all other mountains. Also, What if the top of whatever mountain/cliff that Sawyer was forced to climb up WAS seen, but the water in between the two islands wasn't seen? The crash survivors would just assume that the cliff was on the same island, in other words.


> Sailed around quite a bit of the coastline.


Just not all of the coastline, apparently. 


> 2. If the main island was really as big as you guys seem to think it is, why isn't it charted? Seriously.


There apparently is some strangeness with these islands... the big electromagnetic implosion at the end of last season apparently disrupted that strangeness enough to make them detectable, however. As of now, I don't know if enough information has been made known for us to know how/why the outside world can't apparently locate these islands, and why it's apparently very hard to get away from these islands.


> 3. The islands were close enough that you could see details on the beach across the water.
> 
> 4. Sawyer is standing on a huge cliff very near the water. That increases the chance of it being seen from the main island. If it were a low-lying island, It'd be more believable.
> 
> I don't get why any of you AREN'T having a problem with this.


It's a TV show that has some fantastical/suspension of belief aspects to it, so I just shrug off some things.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Supfreak26 said:


> 2. If the main island was really as big as you guys seem to think it is, why isn't it charted? Seriously.


Yeah, but that's just another interesting question.. If Desmond can sail straight in one direction and end up back at the same island, and if Ben has to tell Michael a very specific heading to "leave", then something weird is going on.. I've been assuming there's some strange thing going on to hide the island somehow.. it's no stranger than having a magnetic research station that can make the sky go purple! 

So it not being charted doesn't necessarily mean it's not big.


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Ok ok... good points by all. 

Maybe my initial reaction to all this was a bit hasty.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> I'm saying this was sloppy writing. Sure there was a map shown but the French lady that showed 3 islands but that was back in season 1!! I didn't even know this until I read it here. How is the average viewer supposed to remember that?


They aren't supposed to necessarily remember that. It's not really crucial to the story. But it is a nice little easter egg for those who did notice and remember, and it does show that they aren't necessarily pulling ideas out of there @$$ at the last minute, as the groundwork for this idea was subtlely laid out almost 2 years before they decided to delve into it.


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> and it does show that they aren't necessarily pulling ideas out of there @$$ at the last minute, as the groundwork for this idea was subtlely laid out almost 2 years before they decided to delve into it.


Now I'm still on the side that says they are totally making this up as they go along. But that argument has been played out so let's not go there.


----------



## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

devdogaz said:


> I think the knowing look that Charlie gave Desmond after the lightning struck signified that Desmond wanted to fix the roof to protect Claire and Aaron, and Charlie suddenly realized that fact.


I'm not on board with this idea... but more of the "wholy crap did a bolt of lightning just strike 7 feet away from us, and hit that makeshift lighting rod you put up 2 minutes prior??"

who cares about fixing a roof... imho, Desmond suggested they fix the roof because who likes to be sitting around in the rain (and with a baby it must be worse!!!)



Supfreak26 said:


> 1. They've spent a lot of time exploring that island. Climbed a few mountains. Sailed around quite a bit of the coastline.
> <snip>
> I don't get why any of you AREN'T having a problem with this.


I know you've kinda come to grips with this... but I wanted to chime in too. I wasn't that suprised they didn't really notice it. Look at all the crazy stuff that goes on, on the island!!! they rarely travel away from the beach, hatch (when there was one). (and I'd wager the "gold course" is slightly between the two points)

Even if they did see the island there... I doubt they would be ready and all gung-ho in to exploring it with all the nutty stuff going on around their camp/island. Eventually, sure, but not yet.


----------



## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

I told my wife the other night that I have had about enough of this show... everytime I turn around there is 1 more mistery opened up and absolutely nothing solved. Now maybe when they finally wrap this up we will look at it as the greatest plot ever, but I am tired of looking at the overall puzzle 1 freeking peice at a time and never being able to put 2 peices together. The whole "numbers" thing.. well that's not mentioned. All of a sudden theres another polar bear... Another Island? That can't be the island the Others occupy daily 'cause how would they have run to the beaches when the planes crashed.. Why can't you see the island Ben had Sawyer on from the Losties' island. should Sayad and Co have seen the other island when sailing around theirs??

We could write a novel on all the questions that have been presented to us, but very little on what has been answered..

Heroes has replaced LOST as my favorite show as well, and I am about to drop LOST  ....


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mulscully said:


> I told my wife the other night that I have had about enough of this show... everytime I turn around there is 1 more mistery opened up and absolutely nothing solved. Now maybe when they finally wrap this up we will look at it as the greatest plot ever, but I am tired of looking at the overall puzzle 1 freeking peice at a time and never being able to put 2 peices together. The whole "numbers" thing.. well that's not mentioned. All of a sudden theres another polar bear... Another Island? That can't be the island the Others occupy daily 'cause how would they have run to the beaches when the planes crashed.. Why can't you see the island Ben had Sawyer on from the Losties' island. should Sayad and Co have seen the other island when sailing around theirs??
> 
> We could write a novel on all the questions that have been presented to us, but very little on what has been answered..
> 
> Heroes has replaced LOST as my favorite show as well, and I am about to drop LOST  ....


You need to read the last page and a half of this thread. Most if not all of your questions are answered.


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Figaro said:


> You need to read the last page and a half of this thread. Most if not all of your questions are answered.


You are confusing "answers" with "speculations."


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> You are confusing "answers" with "speculations."


Just as he is confusing "questions" with his own "speculations."

I don't get why everyone thinks that they sailed around the *entire *island. What in the world gives anyone that idea?


----------



## peitsche (Nov 13, 2002)

not that this has to do anything with this thread per se...but...my wife and I wore these costumes at the Halloween party on Saturday...close-up of Henry...and the best part was that some people even immediately recognized who (or what) we were trying to be. and her sister even recognized it before she saw the red "8" on my wife's back...and for people who needed a little help I showed them my fake Minnesota driver's license...


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

peitsche said:


> not that this has to do anything with this thread per se...but...my wife and I wore these costumes at the Halloween party on Saturday...close-up of Henry...and the best part was that some people even immediately recognized who (or what) we were trying to be. and her sister even recognized it before she saw the red "8" on my wife's back...and for people who needed a little help I showed them my fake Minnesota driver's license...


 :up: :up: :up: Nice one!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

peitsche said:


> not that this has to do anything with this thread per se...but...my wife and I wore these costumes at the Halloween party on Saturday...close-up of Henry...and the best part was that some people even immediately recognized who (or what) we were trying to be. and her sister even recognized it before she saw the red "8" on my wife's back...and for people who needed a little help I showed them my fake Minnesota driver's license...


Wasn't the "8" on the rabbit's back black?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> peitsche said:
> 
> 
> > not that this has to do anything with this thread per se...but...my wife and I wore these costumes at the Halloween party on Saturday...close-up of Henry...and the best part was that some people even immediately recognized who (or what) we were trying to be. and her sister even recognized it before she saw the *red "8"* on my wife's back...and for people who needed a little help I showed them my fake Minnesota driver's license...
> ...


No, his wife was playing the part of the rabbit, and the "8" was red. It's even in the quote you posted.


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## peitsche (Nov 13, 2002)

markz said:


> :up: :up: :up: Nice one!


thanks! it was especially funny when one person asked "why the bunny?" we just said, well, it's the bunny in the cage from the last episode. she then yelled "oh no, I haven't watched that episode yet!"...turns out our Halloween costume was actually a spoiler...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

peitsche said:


> thanks! it was especially funny when one person asked "why the bunny?" we just said, well, it's the bunny in the cage from the last episode. she then yelled "oh no, I haven't watched that episode yet!"...turns out our Halloween costume was actually a spoiler...


LOL! Yet again, the influence of TiVo is demonstrated beyond the living room!  :up:


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## peitsche (Nov 13, 2002)

drew2k said:


> No, his wife was playing the part of the rabbit, and the "8" was red. It's even in the quote you posted.


here's the back of the bunny...she put Dharma Initiative around the 8, even though I told her that it wasn't authentic...  but she was concerned that no one at the party would figure it out without a little help...


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

peitsche said:


> close-up of Henry


Excellent Benry eyes there! :up:


----------



## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> Nearly all of Jack's patients die, and nearly everyone gets to punch Sawyer in the face at some point.


four or five time!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

drew2k said:


> No, his wife was playing the part of the rabbit, and the "8" was red. It's even in the quote you posted.


Maybe I just got zoomed, but I thought the 8 on the bunny in the episode was black, not red. Maybe I need to adjust the color on my TV set.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Maybe I just got zoomed, but I thought the 8 on the bunny in the episode was black, not red. Maybe I need to adjust the color on my TV set.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

He was making a joke.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


>


Is that supposed to convince me of something? Looks black to me.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

By the way, I listened to the Podcast today which came out this week and there were some interesting things discussed:

1. Cuse and Lindeloff can't understand why the fans don't get that Jae (Korean baldy) committed suicide. They basically make fun of the fans that came up with elaborate theories to explain how someone else threw him off the balcony. Bottom line, Jae most definitely jumped.

2. They're pretty happy with the way the show is airing this season, with the first six eps, then a break, then the final 16-17 episodes starting in February. They took a question from an irate fan who couldn't believe how long he had to wait between last season and this season, and now can't believe he has to wait again. They said there were three options a) air the series with intermittent reruns, like seasons one and two, b) save the whole thing until January, or c) do it like they're doing it. They didn't like option a, and didn't think the fans would want to wait clear until Jan. for the show to start, so they like the option they chose and they're pretty sure time will show that they made the right decision.

3. They discussed the whole Scott/Steve issue. Apparently the two characters had never been differentiated and so while there were two actors playing the two roles, nobody had ever really determined which was which. So when the script came out saying that [Scott] would be killed, both actors said, "I'm [Steve]." Since the roles had never really been assigned to either one, they really had to make a decision, and did something with each actor getting a rock and determining which was which by who got what rock. Because of that, Cuse and Lindeloff can't ever remember which one actually was killed, and so when references to it have appeared in the show, it's kind of an inside joke related to their own confusion behind the scenes.

4. This one could be considered a minor spoiler, so:


Spoiler



They were asked about the polar bears and when they escaped, whether it was during or after the Dharma Initiative. They basically likened it to when the US troops entered Baghdad and there were lions roaming around the streets because the zoo had been bombed and the lions had escaped. They basically said, without actually saying, that there had been some kind of attack or conflict which either wiped out Dharma or caused them to leave. They were also asked how many people had been killed by the polar bears and they said 19 or 20, but I think that part was facetious.

5. Finally, something they said that a character dies in the Nov. 1 episode. They pretty much admitted that it will be a major character, because they said it would be a cop-out if it turns out to be another minor character like Scott/Steve (which got them onto that discussion).


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> He was making a joke.


  Yeah .... and a bad one at that!


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> By the way, I listened to the Podcast today which came out this week and there were some interesting things discussed:
> 
> 1. Cuse and Lindeloff can't understand why the fans don't get that Jae (Korean baldy) committed suicide. They basically make fun of the fans that came up with elaborate theories to explain how someone else threw him off the balcony. Bottom line, Jae most definitely jumped.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this! Very interesting. Who are Scott/Steve, and when did one of them die? That isn't ringing a bell with me.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> Thanks for posting this! Very interesting. Who are Scott/Steve, and when did one of them die? That isn't ringing a bell with me.


Season one. They were just extras on the beach who occasionally helped out with stuff and then suddenly one of them turned up dead and everyone suspected it was retaliation for Ethan.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Is that supposed to convince me of something? Looks black to me.


Yes, that you were correct.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> Season one. They were just extras on the beach who occasionally helped out with stuff and then suddenly one of them turned up dead and everyone suspected it was retaliation for Ethan.


Actually they suspect it was a retaliation by Ethan.


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## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

I realize it's a little late to post to this thread, but I didn't actually watch this episode until last night and I noticed something that I didn't see any posts touch on.

After Kate climbed back into her cage, they showed a closeup of her landing on the ground. In the closeup, you see her feet landing perfectly within a set of footprints that are recessed into the ground. My take: she's gotten out before and landed in the same spot...several times perhaps.

Is there a time-loop thing going on? Could that be Desmond's "gift?" He's not actually seeing into the future, he's merely able to remember it now?

Now I can watch the 11/1 episode tonight.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

durl said:


> I realize it's a little late to post to this thread, but I didn't actually watch this episode until last night and I noticed something that I didn't see any posts touch on.
> 
> After Kate climbed back into her cage, they showed a closeup of her landing on the ground. In the closeup, you see her feet landing perfectly within a set of footprints that are recessed into the ground. My take: she's gotten out before and landed in the same spot...several times perhaps.
> 
> ...


That's how movies and TV are filmed. Everything gets multiple takes and several angles. That's how you get continuity errors. I think it's probably just that simple.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hefe said:


> That's how movies and TV are filmed. Everything gets multiple takes and several angles. That's how you get continuity errors. I think it's probably just that simple.


Yes, e.g. almost every time they show a car peeling out in a TV show or movie, you'll see multiple tire marks on the road. (That's one that always bugs me, for some reason.)


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## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

hefe said:


> That's how movies and TV are filmed. Everything gets multiple takes and several angles. That's how you get continuity errors. I think it's probably just that simple.


Could be, but I doubt it in this case. This show goes to great pains to place clues throughout the show. Look at how the numbers have been inserted, from soccer jerseys in the airport to the numbers on police cars. Even books on a shelf have provided clues.

With the footprints, they did a closeup of the ground right before she landed, framing from below her knees when they could have simply shown a full body shot. I believe they wanted us to see where she landed.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

durl said:


> Could be, but I doubt it in this case. This show goes to great pains to place clues throughout the show. Look at how the numbers have been inserted, from soccer jerseys in the airport to the numbers on police cars. Even books on a shelf have provided clues.
> 
> With the footprints, they did a closeup of the ground right before she landed, framing from below her knees when they could have simply shown a full body shot. I believe they wanted us to see where she landed.


Or maybe the actress wasn't the one actually doing the landing, so a closeup of the stunt woman's lower legs allowed for the deception.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> 1. Cuse and Lindeloff can't understand why the fans don't get that Jae (Korean baldy) committed suicide. They basically make fun of the fans that came up with elaborate theories to explain how someone else threw him off the balcony. Bottom line, Jae most definitely jumped.


Cool. I called that one. The necklace in his hand seemed to be a strong indicator he jumped, either because he couldn't go on without her, or he felt too guilty for ruining her life (since he though Jin knew what happened).


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Figaro said:


> Actually they suspect it was a retaliation by Ethan.


More specifically...after Claire escaped, Ethan said he wanted her back, and that one of the Losties would die each day until he got her back. The first night they fortified the camp (setting up tripwires and putting people on guard). Sometime in the night, Ethan snuck in (presumably via the water, which was unguarded) and killed Scott or Steve.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Cool. I called that one. The necklace in his hand seemed to be a strong indicator he jumped, either because he couldn't go on without her, or he felt too guilty for ruining her life (since he though Jin knew what happened).


Or he was that afraid of Jin and his Father-in-Law.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I forgot one other thing from the Podcast that I thought was really funny. A fan asked if the guy sucked into the engine during the pilot was really Gary Troup, the author of the book "Bad Twin." They confirmed that it was, and then one of them said, "And now that I've read the book, I can say that his fate was deserved," or something like that. Basically saying that it was a horrible book. I found that funny coming from the producers since the book was just basically a marketing stunt to promote their show.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> By the way, I listened to the Podcast today which came out this week and there were some interesting things discussed:


Thank you for posting this. For those of us who love the inside peeks, but are unable to listen to the podcasts (hearing challenges), this is greatly appreciated. 

Could we make this a regular part of your job description?


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Thank you for posting this. For those of us who love the inside peeks, but are unable to listen to the podcasts (hearing challenges), this is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Could we make this a regular part of your job description?


Lol, I second that! Are there any podcast transcript sites floating around?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Two more days.........

Well at least tonight we have ... Ok, I won't so gratuitously mention other shows in a Lost thread.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Two more days.........
> 
> Well at least tonight we have ... Ok, I won't so gratuitously mention other shows in a Lost thread.


Relax dude, it's all part of the journey.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Personally, I think he enjoys screwing with Ford's head and the more he screws with Ford's head, the more he tears down his psyche.


After all, Sawyer is "built Ford tough".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Figaro said:


> Relax dude, it's all part of the journey.


How Campbellian of you!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

..and wow, I even posted that in the wrong Lost thread..

(WorfVoice) I *AM* relaxed!!! (/WorfVoice)


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

ebf said:


> But every island *needs* a rock star!


Don't mistake coincidence for fate. 



jenhudson said:


> Yes! Hubby and I both said "Why isn't he pounding on her chest?"


I was kind of relieved he didn't drag that out. With an unclamped major bleeder, no paddles, and her having been down that long, if he'd been able to bring her back, that would have been just annoying... even on Magic Healing Island (which it turns out they may not have been on anyway).

The dominant theme does seem to be cons lately. While we're wondering if Sawyer is conning or being conned in the flashbacks, everything else going on is just chances for us to wonder if each event is really part of the Others' plan to manipulate the Losties. It's very _The Prisoner_ but it is also wearing a little thin. The Others can't control *every* event around them, but they can control an awful lot; there's just no way anyone, us or the Losties, can guess which ones are part of the scheme.


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