# A possible clue to where TiVo is headed?



## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

From Advanced Television,



> Spain: Vodafone to launch TiVo 4K STB
> 
> From David Del Valle in Madrid
> May 4, 2016
> ...


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I don't think we can take any news of this sort as an indicator of the future, at least not until the acquisition is complete. Sure, at some point, the impeding acquisition will start affecting such moves (although technically it shouldn't), but surely anything that is already in motion, so much so that they're "finalizing" a "launch", is very likely something that was set in motion before the acquisition.


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## HobokenSkier (Oct 14, 2015)

So still a hardware manufacturer


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Put some clues together. This announcment, Tivo's multiple mentions of a 'new product not a DVR' and the Tivo mentions of a new generation mini.

Its all speaking of the same device. A new streaming video box that also has Tivo baked in. Can access other tivos in the home but not required like the current mini. All streaming apps like on the bolt and the bolt's 4k engine.

I think it would be a great fit for tivo and bring them into new markets. With Hulu and You Tube both announcing IPtv lineups this week, an upscale streaming box becomes a viable set top and brings the tivo experience with it.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

jcthorne said:


> A new streaming video box that also has Tivo baked in. Can access other tivos in the home but not required like the current mini.


Help me out here . . . what good is baked in tivo without something to record content? If it's just a portal to access other streaming content (hulu, netflix, amazon), then what exactly is the selling point?


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## sheshechic (Apr 14, 2012)

Outside of the US, tv's can record. We cannot have such devices here.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

DrewTivo said:


> Help me out here . . . what good is baked in tivo without something to record content? If it's just a portal to access other streaming content (hulu, netflix, amazon), then what exactly is the selling point?


Tivo / Rovi's entry to the very large and growing streaming IPtv set top box market. If priced right, would be a competitive box to Roku and Amazon Fire with features neither of those two offer now or in the future.

Stop thinking of the Tivo my shows list as a list of your local recordings but rather an index of video content you want to watch and have direct access to. Local and all network sources.

This is the natural progression of what onePass started.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

DrewTivo said:


> Help me out here . . . what good is baked in tivo without something to record content? If it's just a portal to access other streaming content (hulu, netflix, amazon), then what exactly is the selling point?


What's the selling point of any Streaming device? Same here.

The issue is everyone around here automatically thinks it will suck or not offer anything different/better than any other Streaming device.


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## pwlcheng (Dec 6, 2007)

DrewTivo said:


> Help me out here . . . what good is baked in tivo without something to record content?


It will still be able to record content, only not using "local storage", instead, it will be using "cloud storage". Everybody are moving from Local Storage to Cloud Storage nowadays, you have DropBox, One Drive, Google Drive...etc...etc. Don't you have your music store or sync to the cloud yet?


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

HobokenSkier said:


> So still a hardware manufacturer


I don't think that's a given. Thier UK products for example run on non-TiVo hardware.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Oh God. A "cloud" DVR. "Cloud" is just a buzzword meaning "we can stop you from skipping over commercials", and practically speaking, the latency is also very annoying with a distinct delay between pressing a button and something happening (a delay that varies as well depending on how loaded the servers happen to be).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I can see TiVo working with a cable systems cloud server but what is the return on investment for them to set up their own? I don't see that happening just because of the initial cost. 

However as cable systems move to cloud dvrs (shudder), it would make sense for them to follow that path.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> Oh God. A "cloud" DVR. "Cloud" is just a buzzword meaning "we can stop you from skipping over commercials", and practically speaking, the latency is also very annoying with a distinct delay between pressing a button and something happening (a delay that varies as well depending on how loaded the servers happen to be).


Latency doesn't have to be a problem. There are ways to reduce the latency issue through buffering. With memory prices today it would be relatively easy to have a multi-gigabyte buffer and still stay in the $100/unit price range. If you combine that with the bit rates of most IP delivered products, and a reasonable amount of headroom on the connection, you could buffer all or most of a show before the first commercial break.

Of course, if you can't skip commercials, the importance of latency is somewhat diminished.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Wow, the cloud, like Apple's music cloud, expect them to delete any recording they want once you give the key,


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

jcthorne said:


> Tivo / Rovi's entry to the very large and growing streaming IPtv set top box market. If priced right, would be a competitive box to Roku and Amazon Fire with features neither of those two offer now or in the future.
> 
> Stop thinking of the Tivo my shows list as a list of your local recordings but rather an index of video content you want to watch and have direct access to. Local and all network sources.
> 
> This is the natural progression of what onePass started.


Maybe TiVo could have a successful streaming STB but, as you say, it would have to be superior in some way(s) to what's already out there: Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV and the various Android TV boxes. But as I've pointed out before, there's really no way for TiVo to get there with their current Opera/HTML5-based app platform. There's just not enough apps available (and in some cases, the apps available aren't as good as they are on other platforms). It's a chicken-and-egg thing: TiVo can't get lots of companies to develop apps for their streaming box if they haven't sold lots of units; but they can't sell lots of units without lots of apps to start with.

Which is why I keep coming back to Android TV. No one has yet produced a killer Android TV-based STB. If TiVo made one, with a reskinned UI to identify it as TiVo branded, full access to the Google Play app store, an Amazon Video app pre-installed (since that's the one major app unavailable on Google Play), Google Cast capability, and a well-designed remote control, I think it could succeed. Even better, put an OTA HDTV tuner right inside the box with free program listings and the ability to pause and rewind live TV. Use a OnePass-like system to search across all the major streaming services and save those searches in a unified watchlist. THAT would be a killer streaming product, truly differentiated from anything else on the market, and would make waves with cord-cutters.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

just get Kodi on TiVo


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## pwlcheng (Dec 6, 2007)

Imagine you don't need to set any OnePass to record your favorite shows. You just turn on your TV and using your [Cloud TiVo] to access any broadcast/episodes that has been broadcasted today or 5 years ago. Any episodes from Season 10 all the way back to Season 1. Would that be wonderful?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

pwlcheng said:


> Imagine you don't need to set any OnePass to record your favorite shows. You just turn on your TV and using your [Cloud TiVo] to access any broadcast/episodes that has been broadcasted today or 5 years ago. Any episodes from Season 10 all the way back to Season 1. Would that be wonderful?


Sure except content owners would never allow it and even if they did TiVo would have to charge allot for the storage.

VoD could do the same thing, but again content owners would expect you to either rent (pay per view) or purchase any content you viewed.

The reality I see is that the VoD libraries we create with our TiVos is about as good as it is going to get.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

pwlcheng said:


> Imagine you don't need to set any OnePass to record your favorite shows. You just turn on your TV and using your [Cloud TiVo] to access any broadcast/episodes that has been broadcasted today or 5 years ago. Any episodes from Season 10 all the way back to Season 1. Would that be wonderful?


Can you remember all your favorite shows and what was the last one you saw, with TiVo, as it now, *my shows *tells me what favorite shows have recorded that I have not seen, easy. I watched an OD Stz program called* The Missing*, it had 8 one hour episodes, I had to keep track, with a paper next to my TV, and cross off each episode I watched as OD only keeps history for about a day, not such a big pain as it was only one show, but if we were talking about many shows that would be a pain.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

pwlcheng said:


> Imagine you don't need to set any OnePass to record your favorite shows. You just turn on your TV and using your [Cloud TiVo] to access any broadcast/episodes that has been broadcasted today or 5 years ago. Any episodes from Season 10 all the way back to Season 1. Would that be wonderful?


Sounds like CBS all access. You're describing VoD, not a DVR. Would you rather pay per episode or per season? How much of a premium would you be willing to pay for commercial free viewing? Understand fast forwarding through commercials won't be allowed.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

foghorn2 said:


> just get Kodi on TiVo


Can't see that happening because of all the piracy Kodi allows. I had to side load it to my Firestick as Amazon had removed it from its store. 😏


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> Maybe TiVo could have a successful streaming STB but, as you say, it would have to be superior in some way(s) to what's already out there: Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV and the various Android TV boxes. But as I've pointed out before, there's really no way for TiVo to get there with their current Opera/HTML5-based app platform. There's just not enough apps available (and in some cases, the apps available aren't as good as they are on other platforms). It's a chicken-and-egg thing: TiVo can't get lots of companies to develop apps for their streaming box if they haven't sold lots of units; but they can't sell lots of units without lots of apps to start with.
> 
> Which is why I keep coming back to Android TV. No one has yet produced a killer Android TV-based STB. If TiVo made one, with a reskinned UI to identify it as TiVo branded, full access to the Google Play app store, an Amazon Video app pre-installed (since that's the one major app unavailable on Google Play), Google Cast capability, and a well-designed remote control, I think it could succeed. Even better, put an OTA HDTV tuner right inside the box with free program listings and the ability to pause and rewind live TV. Use a OnePass-like system to search across all the major streaming services and save those searches in a unified watchlist. THAT would be a killer streaming product, truly differentiated from anything else on the market, and would make waves with cord-cutters.


Tivo is not going to be better than Roku by having MORE apps. That will not happen.

Tivo is going to (attempt) to be better by offering a significant feature than NONE of the other streaming boxes do. An integrated search and integrated play list where you see videos you want from all of your providers at the same time. No need to search in each app when looking for a move or show. No need to launch one app for one show and then launch another app for another show.

The MyShows list and integrated search across all the major OTT providers is what Tivo will bring as a new product.

You already have it on the DVRs now but like many things Tivo, educating the public why they would want this powerful feature is how they will make the sales....or not.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> just get Kodi on TiVo


Not going to happen. Tivo has buddied up with Plex which is commercially more mainstream. Vizio, Samsung, Sony and others also support. Its not perfect but it does work pretty darn well and its getting better all the time.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

pwlcheng said:


> Imagine you don't need to set any OnePass to record your favorite shows. You just turn on your TV and using your [Cloud TiVo] to access any broadcast/episodes that has been broadcasted today or 5 years ago. Any episodes from Season 10 all the way back to Season 1. Would that be wonderful?


That is exactly what universal search and onepass already does. Across all providers. OTT and linear.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

A universal search being the primary feature that make TiVo stand out from the crowd will definitely need something more convenient to use for the search than hunting and pecking an onscreen keyboard with the remote .


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

tomhorsley said:


> A universal search being the primary feature that make TiVo stand out from the crowd will definitely need something more convenient to use for the search than hunting and pecking an onscreen keyboard with the remote .


Ya it's called voice. If Tivo released a new remote and software that provided voice control/recognition for as many of their existing DVRs that the hardware would support it, they would really have something.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> Tivo is not going to be better than Roku by having MORE apps. That will not happen. Tivo is going to (attempt) to be better by offering a significant feature than NONE of the other streaming boxes do. An integrated search and integrated play list where you see videos you want from all of your providers at the same time. No need to search in each app when looking for a move or show. No need to launch one app for one show and then launch another app for another show. The MyShows list and integrated search across all the major OTT providers is what Tivo will bring as a new product. You already have it on the DVRs now but like many things Tivo, educating the public why they would want this powerful feature is how they will make the sales....or not.


Roku already has an integrated search for all major apps (no one can do all the apps Roku has since many are "private channels"). TiVo brings linear together with apps. Roku also has a watch feature to let you know when new items are available. I think it only works on movies but don't assume TiVo is really bringing anything new to the party. Maybe better but not new.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> Ya it's called voice. If Tivo released a new remote and software that provided voice control/recognition for as many of their existing DVRs that the hardware would support it, they would really have something.


Voice is a gimmick.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Please, no voice on the Tivo, I hate voice remotes.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Voice is a gimmick.


I think it depends on its implementation. Amazon seems to have a pretty good handle on voice in a non-gimmicky way.

Wasn't there something that lead us to believe the Bolt was going to ship with a voice controlled remote?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Voice is a gimmick.


Tell that to the Amazon Echo and Apple TV users. Voice is the feature that every single major streaming box company is implementing. Rovi has a lot of voice technology in their portfolio so at some point they will make use of that tech with TiVo. Of course TiVo could already be working on voice technology of their own (there have been rumors of this for more than a year)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

SullyND said:


> I think it depends on its implementation. Amazon seems to have a pretty good handle on voice in a non-gimmicky way. Wasn't there something that lead us to believe the Bolt was going to ship with a voice controlled remote?


Still a gimmick. Find the market where it is a discerning capability.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Still a gimmick. Find the market where it is a discerning capability.


http://www.hearinglink.org/living/loops-equipment/speech-recognition-systems/


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

jcthorne said:


> Tivo is not going to be better than Roku by having MORE apps. That will not happen.


It's not about having MORE apps that Roku per se, it's about having all the first and second tier streaming apps (plus a range of casual games) so that the box could compete with Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, etc. How would you propose that TiVo gain access to all those apps when they've had limited success in gaining apps so far over the past several years? Yes, universal search and watchlist would be important features but other streaming boxes have begun implementing those features to a limited degree. And if a new streaming box doesn't have a big selection of quality apps, that feature won't matter much anyhow.


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## ss-stingray (Aug 25, 2013)

One think for sure I won't buy any new hardware until this thing becomes clear. Just glad I didn't get a bolt.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> Ya it's called voice.


Yea, there is nothing I want more than a live microphone owned by a marketing firm in my house .


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

ss-stingray said:


> One think for sure I won't buy any new hardware until this thing becomes clear. Just glad I didn't get a bolt.


Not sure why you feel this way. Tivo is not going away. Rovi already made it clear the new combined company is 'TiVO'.

I love my Bolt. Was a great upgrade from the Roamio. Yes its a bit pricey but I love the feature set. Looking forward to OOH streaming.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

jcthorne said:


> Not sure why you feel this way. Tivo is not going away. Rovi already made it clear the new combined company is 'TiVO'.


It isn't unusual for an acquiring company to retain the more recognizable name, without regard for what their strategic plans for the acquired company's products and services.

Of trivial interest... IIRC, TiVo is actually incorporated as TiVo, not TiVO. It is interesting that TiVo, itself, uses both TiVo and TiVO, though I've only seen the latter in their registered trademark. In all written materials, I've seen it TiVo or, when typical to the specific context, in all-caps.

Regardless, In the past, I've sometimes seen X + Y = Y M&A transactions result in a deliberate change in some aspect of spelling, spacing or capitalization, when X is the acquiring company, though right now I can only think of counter-examples (AirTran, AT&T). Anyway, I wonder if the new company will be TiVo or Tivo.


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## disturbedfred (Oct 2, 2004)

jcthorne said:


> Not sure why you feel this way. Tivo is not going away. Rovi already made it clear the new combined company is 'TiVO'.
> 
> I love my Bolt. Was a great upgrade from the Roamio. Yes its a bit pricey but I love the feature set. Looking forward to OOH streaming.


The Bolt was no Upgrade from the Roamio. I've got 6 tuners and 6tb's of storage. Tell yourself whatever helps you sleep, but no upgrade. And OOH streaming? Been doing that for quite some time.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

disturbedfred said:


> The Bolt was no Upgrade from the Roamio. I've got 6 tuners and 6tb's of storage. Tell yourself whatever helps you sleep, but no upgrade. And OOH streaming? Been doing that for quite some time.


If your "Roamio" has 6 tuners then its not the Roamio DVR it is either a Roamio Plus or Pro DVR. The Bolt is a substantial upgrade for the Roamio DVR, not so much for a Roamio Plus or Pro DVR.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I took the earlier message to be an acknowledgement that TiVo has been moving away from premium devices. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the TiVo Series 3 was the best quality device (excepting the hard drive), based on the quality of its components as compared to the quality of components used by comparable devices of other companies. Since then, I think TiVo has been making "better" decisions, cost engineering their devices appropriately to the market.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> Still a gimmick. Find the market where it is a discerning capability.


I can barely get Siri on my iphone to do anything more complex than send a short text successfully. Virtually any complex search I want turns up garbage.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DrewTivo said:


> I can barely get Siri on my iphone to do anything more complex than send a short text successfully. Virtually any complex search I want turns up garbage.


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## disturbedfred (Oct 2, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> If your "Roamio" has 6 tuners then its not the Roamio DVR it is either a Roamio Plus or Pro DVR. The Bolt is a substantial upgrade for the Roamio DVR, not so much for a Roamio Plus or Pro DVR.


Still a Roamio.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

disturbedfred said:


> Still a Roamio.


Yes and no. TiVo really sucks at naming. Series 5 DVRs also referred to generically as the "Roamio" series of DVRs had/have 5 models. At release there where 3 models named Roamio, Roamio Plus, & Roamio Pro. Then TiVo released another model called Roamio OTA and finally they released a second Roamio OTA model with a larger hard drive than the first Roamio OTA.

I am not sure I could have come up with a more confusing naming convention if I had tried.

If someone is using the word Roamio to refer to the specific model called Roamio then it is not your DVR. If someone is using the word Roamio to refer generically to any/All Series 5 DVRs then it includes your DVR as it is one of the Roamio models.

Many of us around here add the word basic or base to Roamio when we are talking about the actual model that TiVo just called Roamio, to indicate we are not talking about the whole series.

Unless your goal is to cause confusion I highly recommend you be specific when talking about an specific model or individual unit.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> Yes and no. TiVo really sucks at naming. Series 5 DVRs also referred to generically as the "Roamio" series of DVRs had/have 5 models. At release there where 3 models named Roamio, Roamio Plus, & Roamio Pro. Then TiVo released another model called Roamio OTA and finally they released a second Roamio OTA model with a larger hard drive than the first Roamio OTA.
> 
> I am not sure I could have come up with a more confusing naming convention if I had tried.
> 
> ...


I think you can say Roamio 4, Roamio 6, or Roamio OTA, that would also remove the confusion most of the time.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

keenanSR said:


> From Advanced Television,


This is just another overseas TiVo product as in other parts of the world such as Australia and the UK with Virgin, although those are DVR. This was in the pipeline for some time and means pretty much next to nothing. Years ago TiVo had worked with Best Buy to provide a TiVo guide--no DVR--on Best Buy's house brand TV, but that fell through, so TiVo was prepared to be a EPG only brand on an HDTV _YEARS_ ago.

FWIW, both the press release and the emails sent to us subscribers never contained the phrase "DVR", nor did TiVo tell us in those emails that our DVR's would continue to function for the "_foreseeable future_" as just one example of an open phrase that still leaves an exit. Why not say that our DVR's will continue to function if that is the TiVo's intention? Because it is NOT their intention, otherwise they would have made it clear that the DVR's in service are safe for some time. If they would answer such a question and directly address it, that would end speculation and fear among the TiVo community. But they never even give us a hint as to our current DVR's future.

It is pretty clear to me that at best, Rovi has not made a decision regarding if DVR's will continue to function after the close of the deal. At worst, Rovi management--soon to become TiVo management--have already decided the fate or our DVR's, and won't directly address it, but will wait, in standard Rovi fashion, to lower the boom on us with a Sezmi DVR email.

If our DVR's are safe from becoming bricks subsequent to the close of the deal, then say so Rovi/TiVo. Instead we hear NOTHING from Rovi nor from any current official TiVo sources


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

atmuscarella said:


> I am not sure I could have come up with a more confusing naming convention if I had tried.


You've clearly never worked in the automobile industry.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> It's not about having MORE apps that Roku per se, it's about having all the first and second tier streaming apps


What do you consider first and second teir streaming apps? The only ones I'd really want that TiVo doesn't currently have are Showtime and Starz. I know there are also a few sports related apps that you guys who watch sports want, but I'm not sure how many. Beyond that I can't really think of any important ones. Do they really need rarely used apps like Vimeo, Crackle, etc... to compete? I just don't see those sorts of apps being important enough to be a deciding factor in anyone's decision.

Edit: According to this list TiVo has 8 of the top 10 Roku apps...

http://www.rokuguide.com/articles/the-best-roku-channels-most-watched-channels-in-all-categories

SlingTV doesn't really fit it's business model, plus there is bad blood with Dish, so I doubt we'll ever see that one. Crackel and Watch ESPN, maybe.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

atmuscarella said:


> I am not sure I could have come up with a more confusing naming convention if I had tried.





> Sheldon: So, first there was PlayStation, aka PS1, then PS2, PS3 and now PS4. And that makes sense. Youd think after Xbox, thered be Xbox 2. But no, next came Xbox 360. Hmm? And now, after 360, comes Xbox One. Why one? Maybe thats how many seconds of thought they put into naming it.


Roku has used the same name for at least two products five times and has used two names for the same product once...

Roku DVP (N1000) May-08
Roku SD (N1050)	Oct-09
Roku HD (N1100)	Nov-09
Roku HD-XR (N1101) Oct-09
Roku HD (2000) Sep-10
Roku XD (2050) Sep-10
Roku XDS (2100)	Sep-10
Roku LT (2400) Nov-11
Roku LT (2450) Apr-12
Roku HD (2500) Apr-12
Roku 2 HD (3000) Jul-11
Roku 2 XD (3050) Jul-11
Roku 2 XS (3100) Jul-11
Roku Streaming Stick, MHL (3400, 3420)	Oct-12
Roku Streaming Stick, HDMI (3500) Mar 2014[36]
Roku LT (2700) Sep-13
Roku 1, SE (2710) Sep-13
Roku 2 (2720) Sep-13
Roku 3 (4200) Mar-13
Roku 2 (4210) Apr-15
Roku 3 (4230) Apr-15
Roku 4 (4400)*[39] Oct-15
Roku Streaming Stick (3600)*[40]	Apr-16


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> What do you consider first and second teir streaming apps? The only ones I'd really want that TiVo doesn't currently have are Showtime and Starz. I know there are also a few sports related apps that you guys who watch sports want, but I'm not sure how many. Beyond that I can't really think of any important ones. Do they really need rarely used apps like Vimeo, Crackle, etc... to compete? I just don't see those sorts of apps being important enough to be a deciding factor in anyone's decision.
> 
> Edit: According to this list TiVo has 8 of the top 10 Roku apps...
> 
> ...


Besides, YouTube and Hulu have both announced live tv bundles coming soon and Tivo already supports both of them making Sling a moot point when they do. Still more options could be nice.

Rovi does have strong ties to Dish so perhaps the past bad blood may wash away.....


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## ss-stingray (Aug 25, 2013)

jcthorne said:


> Not sure why you feel this way. Tivo is not going away. Rovi already made it clear the new combined company is 'TiVO'.
> 
> I love my Bolt. Was a great upgrade from the Roamio. Yes its a bit pricey but I love the feature set. Looking forward to OOH streaming.


 Well maybe your never heard of the Sony DHg's. I had $1200.00 invested in 2 units. Rovi discontinued guide service after buying out Gemstar guide. The Sony needed the guide to work. It is true Rovi may not do this again but after throwing 2 working dvr's away you would feel the same way. The clock was set thru guide so units were useless.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ss-stingray said:


> Well maybe your never heard of the Sony DHg's. I had $1200.00 invested in 2 units. Rovi discontinued guide service after buying out Gemstar guide. The Sony needed the guide to work. It is true Rovi may not do this again but after throwing 2 working dvr's away you would feel the same way. The clock was set thru guide so units were useless.


TiVo has a greater dependence on its host connections than even the DHG. But I don't have the fear of losing it like I did with Sony.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jcthorne said:


> Besides, YouTube and Hulu have both announced live tv bundles coming soon and Tivo already supports both of them making Sling a moot point when they do. Still more options could be nice.
> 
> Rovi does have strong ties to Dish so perhaps the past bad blood may wash away.....


I was looking through all the apps on Roku list and most of them are crap I've never heard of. The only other apps I could see people maybe wanting are all the channel specific apps (i.e. FoxNow, AMC, CNN, etc...) But there are so many of those TiVo would almost need a different UI for them or the list would get unwieldy.

I'm sure those niche apps are more important to cord cutters then cable subscribers though.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I was looking through all the apps on Roku list and most of them are crap I've never heard of. The only other apps I could see people maybe wanting are all the channel specific apps (i.e. FoxNow, AMC, CNN, etc...) But there are so many of those TiVo would almost need a different UI for them or the list would get unwieldy.
> 
> I'm sure those niche apps are more important to cord cutters then cable subscribers though.


Many of those are already available on Tivo via Plex. When counting apps for Tivo, you need to include all the Plex plugins. Like you said, most of these are small players but some of them are important to some.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> But there are so many of those TiVo would almost need a different UI for them or the list would get unwieldy..


I feel like the UI is already a bit unwieldy. I'd welcome a grid layout for the video providers, perhaps in the style of the Browse Tv & Movies menu area. Then they could also bring the music, photos, apps and games all into one area (left hand menu for app/game/music/video/etc. category, right hand area for a grid of the available online services)..


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Just let us bolt on an android box that can take over the screen to run any and all android streaming apps, then TiVo doesn't have to constantly try to get 3rd parties to support apps on their highly marginal platform. And if we're happy with the DVR and nothing else, we don't have to pay extra for the android module .


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

sheshechic said:


> Outside of the US, tv's can record. We cannot have such devices here.


Really? I am intrigued.... That would probably never be legal here, but it would certainly undo a lot of the damage Cloud based DVR's will cause us.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Voice is a gimmick.


See how you feel once you realize you can enter passwords and usernames with Voice. It's a great and useful feature just for that alone. Saved me a ton of time setting up my ATV.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

bareyb said:


> See how you feel once you realize you can enter passwords and usernames with Voice. It's a great and useful feature just for that alone. Saved me a ton of time setting up my ATV.


That won't sway me. Not needed often enough.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

bareyb said:


> See how you feel once you realize you can enter passwords and usernames with Voice. It's a great and useful feature just for that alone. Saved me a ton of time setting up my ATV.


I use LastPass so my passwords are random strings of upper and lower case letters. The Slide Pro has saved me a lot of hassle entering these but it's still a PITA. Don't think voice would work well for these.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> I use LastPass so my passwords are random strings of upper and lower case letters. The Slide Pro has saved me a lot of hassle entering these but it's still a PITA. Don't think voice would work well for these.


The one on the Apple TV is amazing. I have a password that's Upper/Lower Case and lots of special characters and all I had to do was say it one letter or symbol at at time. Picked it up perfectly and made the process a lot faster. If that's all it could do it would be a great feature. But it also does so much more. It's nice to be able to tell a Video to simply "Start Over" and have it do it without having to rewind or back out into a separate menu. I've used it quite a bit once I got used to the idea that it was there and actually _worked_. I will admit, it's a lot more useful than I initially thought it would be.


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## wgameplaya (May 5, 2016)

TonyD79 said:


> That won't sway me. Not needed often enough.


No.

Voice search is not a gimmick hitting 20% of mobile searches recently. I use it on my apple tv and it's excellent and only getting better.

If you actually look at search patterns by age, younger demos don't use text input anymore and solely use voice for mobile searches.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

bareyb said:


> The one on the Apple TV is amazing. I have a password that's Upper/Lower Case and lots of special characters and all I had to do was say it one letter or symbol at at time. Picked it up perfectly and made the process a lot faster. If that's all it could do it would be a great feature. But it also does so much more. It's nice to be able to tell a Video to simply "Start Over" and have it do it without having to rewind or back out into a separate menu. I've used it quite a bit once I got used to the idea that it was there and actually _worked_. I will admit, it's a lot more useful than I initially thought it would be.


I'm pretty sure Apple uses cloud computing to process your voice. Not sure TiVo has the resources for that. Unless maybe there is some premade system somewhere that they can just rent time on. (there might be)


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I'm pretty sure Apple uses cloud computing to process your voice. Not sure TiVo has the resources for that. Unless maybe there is some premade system somewhere that they can just rent time on. (there might be)


Pebble uses Nuance for voice features in their newer smartwatches. Same for Roku's voice feature.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/15/pebble-time-voice-apps/
http://www.nuance.com/company/news-room/press-releases/nuance-powers-roku-voice-search.docx


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

wgameplaya said:


> No. Voice search is not a gimmick hitting 20% of mobile searches recently. I use it on my apple tv and it's excellent and only getting better. If you actually look at search patterns by age, younger demos don't use text input anymore and solely use voice for mobile searches.


Are those the same studies that prompted AMC to announce they were going to allow texting in theaters during movies for younger demos?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Are those the same studies that prompted AMC to announce they were going to allow texting in theaters during movies for younger demos?


Google is focusing their upcoming developer conference on voice: http://9to5google.com/2016/05/11/google-amazon-echo-chirp/

I'm pretty sure Google has stats on how often people are using voice. The fact that they are spending a huge amount of resources at their next developers conference shows how important voice is becoming.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> What do you consider first and second teir streaming apps? The only ones I'd really want that TiVo doesn't currently have are Showtime and Starz. I know there are also a few sports related apps that you guys who watch sports want, but I'm not sure how many. Beyond that I can't really think of any important ones. Do they really need rarely used apps like Vimeo, Crackle, etc... to compete? I just don't see those sorts of apps being important enough to be a deciding factor in anyone's decision.
> 
> Edit: According to this list TiVo has 8 of the top 10 Roku apps...
> 
> ...


HBO Now, Showtime, Showtime Anytime, Starz, Crackle, CBS All Access, Watch ESPN, Sling TV, PS Vue, Google Play, Crunchyroll, Twitch, CBSN, plus a bunch of other "TV everywhere" authenticated apps for various channels (ABC, Fox, CNN, HGTV, etc.). With Roku, the new Apple TV, or Fire TV, you have all of those with a couple exceptions, varying by box. And you have the assurance that any new app that comes along will probably come to that box. Plus you have games.

If TiVo tried to come out with a streaming-only box that had only their current line-up of apps, the reviews would be hilarious. They would have to have some kind of major innovative new feature that differentiates their product to make up for all the apps they lack.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> HBO Now, Showtime, Showtime Anytime, Starz, Crackle, CBS All Access, Watch ESPN, Sling TV, PS Vue, Google Play, Crunchyroll, Twitch, CBSN, plus a bunch of other "TV everywhere" authenticated apps for various channels (ABC, Fox, CNN, HGTV, etc.). With Roku, the new Apple TV, or Fire TV, you have all of those with a couple exceptions, varying by box. And you have the assurance that any new app that comes along will probably come to that box. Plus you have games.
> 
> If TiVo tried to come out with a streaming-only box that had only their current line-up of apps, the reviews would be hilarious. They would have to have some kind of major innovative new feature that differentiates their product to make up for all the apps they lack.


I have a FireTV and have never used any of those apps other then Shotime Anytime. I understand that sports fans want Watch ESPN, so that's one I'd bet they're working on. HBO Now requires the device to handle billing, so that might be a bit trickier for them, but again I'm betting it's something they're working on. Starz and Shotime can both be subscribed to through the Amazon or Hulu apps, so no real need for the standalone apps there. (Showtime Anytime and Starz Play for cable customers would be welcome though) The rest... you're getting into niche territory.

I'm still thinking that it would be in TiVos best interest, long term, to release their own PSVue/SlingTV style service and tie it into the DVR. They could use a cloud DVR for recording from the streaming channels, tying it directly into OnePass so it's seamless to the user, and then use the actual DVR to record locals from OTA. No other device offers that functionality with that sort of integration and if they could pull it off for a reasonable price I think it would be pretty popular with the cord cutter crowd. Even if they don't have a "Crunchyroll" app. (WTF is that?)


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I have a FireTV and have never used any of those apps other then Shotime Anytime. I understand that sports fans want Watch ESPN, so that's one I'd bet they're working on. HBO Now requires the device to handle billing, so that might be a bit trickier for them, but again I'm betting it's something they're working on. Starz and Shotime can both be subscribed to through the Amazon or Hulu apps, so no real need for the standalone apps there. (Showtime Anytime and Starz Play for cable customers would be welcome though) The rest... you're getting into niche territory.
> 
> I'm still thinking that it would be in TiVos best interest, long term, to release their own PSVue/SlingTV style service and tie it into the DVR. They could use a cloud DVR for recording from the streaming channels, tying it directly into OnePass so it's seamless to the user, and then use the actual DVR to record locals from OTA. No other device offers that functionality with that sort of integration and if they could pull it off for a reasonable price I think it would be pretty popular with the cord cutter crowd. Even if they don't have a "Crunchyroll" app. (WTF is that?)


From their website:


> Crunchyroll is a leading global destination and platform for Japanese anime and Asian content. Crunchyroll delivers more than 25,000 episodes and 15,000 hours of officially-licensed content from leading Asian media producers directly to viewers translated professionally in multiple languages within minutes of TV broadcast, through applications including Crunchyroll for iPhone, iPad, Android, Kindle, Windows Phone, Playstation®3, Playstation®4, Playstation®Vita, Xbox LIVE® on Xbox 360 and Xbox One, AppleTV, Roku, Nintendo WiiU, Internet-enabled TVs, set-top boxes, and more.


It's very very popular among younger viewers. Same with Twitch. We're getting old.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

It's not just about supporting the Apps, it's also about running them well (ex: 1080p support for Plex). And if the TiVo lacks even just one of the Apps I need, then I have to switch over to some other device.

The TiVo would be pretty amazing if playing back video with a streaming App was just like playing back a recorded TV program. StreamBaby pulls this off for the most part, and it's so much nicer. That the different Apps behave differently from each other let alone from the DVR is pretty big failure for a box that's trying to unify the experience.

But something is better than nothing.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

jonw747 said:


> It's not just about supporting the Apps, it's also about running them well (ex: 1080p support for Plex). And if the TiVo lacks even just one of the Apps I need, then I have to switch over to some other device.
> 
> The TiVo would be pretty amazing if playing back video with a streaming App was just like playing back a recorded TV program. StreamBaby pulls this off for the most part, and it's so much nicer. That the different Apps behave differently from each other let alone from the DVR is pretty big failure for a box that's trying to unify the experience.
> 
> But something is better than nothing.


Plex on Tivo supports 1080p just fine. Just not on last gen hardware. On the Bolt it runs smoothly. Will likely work fine on any new tivo device for the same reasons.

I do think tivo needs to find a way to integrate what is on the local plex server with its universal search.

For most content there is no need to launch the 'app' just play the item from you myshows list. Plex items need to be integrated right along with the other video services.

Its not impossible, but Plex would need to store ProgramId numbers for its content and allow the tivo to know what items are there. A simple list of programIds that the tivo can keep updated and refer to when doing a search would work.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> I have a FireTV and have never used any of those apps other then Shotime Anytime. I understand that sports fans want Watch ESPN, so that's one I'd bet they're working on. HBO Now requires the device to handle billing, so that might be a bit trickier for them, but again I'm betting it's something they're working on. Starz and Shotime can both be subscribed to through the Amazon or Hulu apps, so no real need for the standalone apps there. (Showtime Anytime and Starz Play for cable customers would be welcome though) The rest... you're getting into niche territory.
> 
> I'm still thinking that it would be in TiVos best interest, long term, to release their own PSVue/SlingTV style service and tie it into the DVR. They could use a cloud DVR for recording from the streaming channels, tying it directly into OnePass so it's seamless to the user, and then use the actual DVR to record locals from OTA. No other device offers that functionality with that sort of integration and if they could pull it off for a reasonable price I think it would be pretty popular with the cord cutter crowd. Even if they don't have a "Crunchyroll" app. (WTF is that?)


Yeah, I get that you (or I) specifically may not want all those apps. But it's a numbers game, trying to deliver the most functionality plus the best user experience to the greatest number of people.

As for TiVo rolling out their own PS Vue style service (streaming cable TV with cloud DVR) to complement the existing Roamio OTA (or whatever its eventual successor might be), that would be a pretty attractive package to some folks but it would still suffer from a lack of apps relative to competitors unless TiVo really gets on a roll in attracting developers. And I have to wonder if we won't see someone else beat TiVo to the punch in terms of integrating OTA DVR with various streaming sources. Google is laying the groundwork for such with the next version of Android TV -- the Live Channels app (which supports both OTA as well as streaming channels) will gain the hooks necessary for DVR support.

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...recorded-sessions-for-dvr-like-functionality/

At present, only niche live streaming channels participate in Android TV's Live Channels app but I would bet that YouTube's upcoming streaming cable TV service debuting next year will.

http://androidtv.news/2016/01/running-list-of-live-channel-sources/

Apple TV already has the third-party Channels app for live OTA and that developer is working on adding DVR support too. I'll be surprised if we don't see something similar come to Roku in the coming year. Granted, that's still not as slick as a complete first-party solution that combines OTA, local and cloud DVR and various streaming sources into a unified interface (which I would definitely prefer) but I'm not sure how important that is to the average cord-cutter. And OnePass is better in theory than in execution when it comes to streaming. I know in which app my favorite shows reside; I basically just bypass OnePass and jump straight into Hulu or Netflix or whatever now and keep separate watchlists in each app that I can access and edit from various devices.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jonw747 said:


> The TiVo would be pretty amazing if playing back video with a streaming App was just like playing back a recorded TV program.


That would be nice, but it would require a pretty unprecedented level of support from the various services. They don't want you to be able to bypass their entire UI. They think their UI is the best and that it allows you to discover their content. If they just allowed TiVo to launch a blank video window and override their standard controls then you would never see their fantastic UI and all the features they worked so hard on. 

TiVo does the best it can with the functionality the apps provide. A few of the apps allow them to essentially jump directly into playing the video, others only allow them to jump to the portion of the UI where the video is and forces the user to select and play it manually.

One major improvement to me would be if TiVo could somehow integrate with the playlists of these services and access the data that tells them whether I've watched and episode already or not. The worst part about OnePass is not that it has to launch an app to play a video it's that you have to remember to manually prune the list when you return from that app.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> One major improvement to me would be if TiVo could somehow integrate with the playlists of these services and access the data that tells them whether I've watched and episode already or not. The worst part about OnePass is not that it has to launch an app to play a video it's that you have to remember to manually prune the list when you return from that app.


Yes. Well, that and the fact that OnePass often fails to reflect streaming content until a few days after it's been added to the underlying service. So, as I said earlier, it's better in concept than in practice. (Although OnePass works very well for recorded TV, no complaints there from me.)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't really mind the delay. But I assume if they were able to gain access to the services data enough to reflect the watched status in My Shows they could probably also get the data for new additions more quickly.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I don't really mind the delay. But I assume if they were able to gain access to the services data enough to reflect the watched status in My Shows they could probably also get the data for new additions more quickly.


You keep talking about the My Shows screen keeping track of watched/in watched status for you. I'm curious what you're talking about, as I don't recall ever seeing any feature on the TiVo that keeps track of what episodes have been watched.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> You keep talking about the My Shows screen keeping track of watched/in watched status for you. I'm curious what you're talking about, as I don't recall ever seeing any feature on the TiVo that keeps track of what episodes have been watched.


As you watch any recording on your Tivo, the progress is tracked in the programs folder. After you watch a program, there is a blue bar next to the listing in the folder that shows where you are (including a full bar to indicate the end) in a program.

Tivo can't do that for streaming episodes. The only way to track what you watch is to actually delete the episode from the folder.


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## wgameplaya (May 5, 2016)

Dan203 said:


> I have a FireTV and have never used any of those apps other then Shotime Anytime. I understand that sports fans want Watch ESPN, so that's one I'd bet they're working on. HBO Now requires the device to handle billing, so that might be a bit trickier for them, but again I'm betting it's something they're working on. Starz and Shotime can both be subscribed to through the Amazon or Hulu apps, so no real need for the standalone apps there. (Showtime Anytime and Starz Play for cable customers would be welcome though) The rest... you're getting into niche territory.
> 
> I'm still thinking that it would be in TiVos best interest, long term, to release their own PSVue/SlingTV style service and tie it into the DVR. They could use a cloud DVR for recording from the streaming channels, tying it directly into OnePass so it's seamless to the user, and then use the actual DVR to record locals from OTA. No other device offers that functionality with that sort of integration and if they could pull it off for a reasonable price I think it would be pretty popular with the cord cutter crowd. Even if they don't have a "Crunchyroll" app. (WTF is that?)


I agree with all this exceeeeeepppt....

for PS Vue- it'd be better if Tivo handled the recording. but I agree some sort of cable replacement service. Both Sling and PSvue have this, Hulu is planning this next year and probably will have a very interesting offering.

In terms of lack of app, perhaps the challenge is Tivo has to actually integrate all that content in their guide which can be quite challenging. i.e. it's not just a matter of adding scyfy chan...but you have to add all their content.

The apps themselves I think just have to be html5 so I don't think it's about the app itself but could be wrong


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> As you watch any recording on your Tivo, the progress is tracked in the programs folder. After you watch a program, there is a blue bar next to the listing in the folder that shows where you are (including a full bar to indicate the end) in a program.
> 
> Tivo can't do that for streaming episodes. The only way to track what you watch is to actually delete the episode from the folder.


I see that less as a way to keep track of which episodes in a series have been watched and more as just an indicator of whether the recording has been played. Unless you're saving all your watched recordings, that progress indicator goes away when you delete the episode so it's not an effective way to keep track of watched/unwatched.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

I have a totally different idea of how Tivo might integrate with other OTT services. Why not build an HDMI input into the box that could seamlessly switch to onother box like Roku or FireTv and also have the Tivo remote control that device as well. Sort of like the old Google TV worked. I just want to be able to be able to easily go between services. I suppose a Harmony remote would do just about the same thing and or Tivo just come out with there own version of that as well.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Diana Collins said:


> As you watch any recording on your Tivo, the progress is tracked in the programs folder. After you watch a program, there is a blue bar next to the listing in the folder that shows where you are (including a full bar to indicate the end) in a program. Tivo can't do that for streaming episodes. The only way to track what you watch is to actually delete the episode from the folder.


The only place I see that on a bolt is if I select the partially watched item on the left and then it only shows things that are partially watched. Not fully.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

davefred99 said:


> I have a totally different idea of how Tivo might integrate with other OTT services. Why not build an HDMI input into the box that could seamlessly switch to onother box like Roku or FireTv and also have the Tivo remote control that device as well. Sort of like the old Google TV worked. I just want to be able to be able to easily go between services. I suppose a Harmony remote would do just about the same thing and or Tivo just come out with there own version of that as well.


HDMI pass-through is what you're talking about. Yeah, it would be better than nothing. (And I have a Harmony universal remote; if you MUST switch devices and inputs, it's ideal, but I'd prefer not to have to switch devices and inputs. And I prefer using the TiVo remote when operating the TiVo as it's better designed for that specific box than is the Harmony remote. Just wish the TiVo remote automatically back-lit when picked up...)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> You keep talking about the My Shows screen keeping track of watched/in watched status for you. I'm curious what you're talking about, as I don't recall ever seeing any feature on the TiVo that keeps track of what episodes have been watched.


I was referring to both the progress indicator Diana mentioned and perhaps the ability to remove recordings from the 1P folder after they've been watched. (or perhaps just a filter to hide "watched" episodes)

Right now if you binge watch several episodes of a show via an app you have to manually return to the 1P folder when you're done and remove those episodes from the list. If you don't then you may forget next time which episode you were on. The apps themselves retain this data, so TiVo would just need to get access to it somehow so they could use it in their own UI.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

NashGuy said:


> HDMI pass-through is what you're talking about. Yeah, it would be better than nothing. (And I have a Harmony universal remote; if you MUST switch devices and inputs, it's ideal, but I'd prefer not to have to switch devices and inputs. And I prefer using the TiVo remote when operating the TiVo as it's better designed for that specific box than is the Harmony remote. Just wish the TiVo remote automatically back-lit when picked up...)


Yes, that is what I was referring too. I do not see Tivo ever adding the full spectrum of apps that cord-cutters would want nor do I think Tivo is even the best for streaming but it could be a pretty seamless device for accessing OTT content while still performing OTA DVR functions. 
The addition of an HDMI input for pass thru and a redesigned remote and adding a way to switch between Tivo and you preferred OTT Device like double clicking the TIvo button would satisfy me.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> That would be nice, but it would require a pretty unprecedented level of support from the various services. They don't want you to be able to bypass their entire UI. They think their UI is the best and that it allows you to discover their content. If they just allowed TiVo to launch a blank video window and override their standard controls then you would never see their fantastic UI and all the features they worked so hard on.
> 
> TiVo does the best it can with the functionality the apps provide. A few of the apps allow them to essentially jump directly into playing the video, others only allow them to jump to the portion of the UI where the video is and forces the user to select and play it manually.
> 
> One major improvement to me would be if TiVo could somehow integrate with the playlists of these services and access the data that tells them whether I've watched and episode already or not. The worst part about OnePass is not that it has to launch an app to play a video it's that you have to remember to manually prune the list when you return from that app.


The problem with TiVo becoming a streaming company is they have no sway with the providers. They offer HTML5, not because it offers the best experience, but because the providers have to do very little to put their Apps on the box.

If TiVo tried to tell them that they had to meet specific standards for behaviour and playback control, or they would not accept their Apps, they would reply ... "See yah!".

That OnePass works at all is quite the accomplishment, but for instance, expecting the remote control to behave the same across different video Apps is not exactly a major demand. Expecting FF/RW/Skip to work and feel the same would be another matter.

We're just in an age where half efforts don't win.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

jcthorne said:


> Plex on Tivo supports 1080p just fine. Just not on last gen hardware. On the Bolt it runs smoothly. Will likely work fine on any new tivo device for the same reasons.


Lack of 1080p support in Plex was just an example, and even that can't be dismissed as "last gen" when TiVo doesn't offer an upgrade path beyond the Roamio Plus/Pro. Apps vary from streaming box to streaming box. Some have more features than others. Some are more up to date then others.



jcthorne said:


> I do think tivo needs to find a way to integrate what is on the local plex server with its universal search.
> 
> For most content there is no need to launch the 'app' just play the item from you myshows list. Plex items need to be integrated right along with the other video services.
> 
> Its not impossible, but Plex would need to store ProgramId numbers for its content and allow the tivo to know what items are there. A simple list of programIds that the tivo can keep updated and refer to when doing a search would work.


If they could do it anywhere, you'd think it would be with Plex. Search would be nice, but just being able to add a show/movie on Plex to the Now Playing list would be nifty. Good "WAF" with that approach, but I think personally I'd still prefer the StreamBaby method.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

davefred99 said:


> Yes, that is what I was referring too. I do not see Tivo ever adding the full spectrum of apps that cord-cutters would want nor do I think Tivo is even the best for streaming but it could be a pretty seamless device for accessing OTT content while still performing OTA DVR functions.
> The addition of an HDMI input for pass thru and a redesigned remote and adding a way to switch between Tivo and you preferred OTT Device like double clicking the TIvo button would satisfy me.


It sounds like you want the best of both worlds, OTA DVR and streaming, combined. That's what I want too. (And I would say streaming is the more important of the two to me, although I don't want to do without OTA TV.) When I bought my Roamio OTA a year ago, it certainly appeared to be the best available product for combining those two viewing sources and I held out hope that its streaming capabilities would improve. They have, somewhat, over the past 12 months, but not enough.

At this point, I've more or less given up hope that TiVo ever will develop into that ideal "one box" solution. It seem much more likely to me that we'll see one or more boxes out of the existing streaming platforms (Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, Android TV) gain high-quality OTA DVR capabilities that integrates with streaming content. (We kinda already have that option with Tablo TV, although it doesn't integrate into universe search, watchlists, or program guides/recommendations alongside streaming content, at least not yet.)

All those streaming boxes have a much larger installed user base than TiVo has and they have active developer communities targeting their platforms with new apps and accessories they want to sell. Just seems much more likely that we see a superior solution for cord-cutters bubble up there than from TiVo. Wonder if we'll have any interesting news about Android TV from Google's I/O keynote next week...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I was referring to both the progress indicator Diana /QUOTE]
> 
> Just WHERE do you see that? I only see that if I go into Partially Watched.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jonw747 said:


> The problem with TiVo becoming a streaming company is they have no sway with the providers. They offer HTML5, not because it offers the best experience, but because the providers have to do very little to put their Apps on the box.
> 
> If TiVo tried to tell them that they had to meet specific standards for behaviour and playback control, or they would not accept their Apps, they would reply ... "See yah!".
> 
> ...


They actually tried this originally. When they released their original apps platform, based on HME, they had style requirements. The apps had to actually look similar to the TiVo UI. Then when they transitioned to the Flash based apps for the Premiere they still had some requirements about what the buttons did. With the latest HTML5 platform they've relented completely and adopted the generic smart TV platform.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Amazon, Roku and Samsung have way more pull then TiVo and they still use a generic apps platforms where every app uses different buttons to do different things. (just like TiVo does now) The only ones who actually have enough pull to force app developers to design special apps just for them are Apple and Microsoft (for Xbox). Other then that pretty much every other player is using a generic apps platform. So it's not like TiVo would really be any worse then other options when it came to how the apps worked. The biggest issue is whether or not they can get the apps on the device in the first place. Even with a generic HTM5 platform they still seem to have trouble getting apps to the device. I'm not sure if this is due to some sort of development complexity or some sort of business conflict, but they seem be really slow at getting new apps on to the device. If they could fix that issue, and get a few more key apps to the platform quickly, then I think they'd be a real viable option for cord cutters.


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## billp30 (Apr 6, 2014)

I got this link over on AVS forum:

http://evolutiondigital.com/tivo-t6/


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

billp30 said:


> I got this link over on AVS forum: http://evolutiondigital.com/tivo-t6/


Isn't that just the cable provided version of the roamio pro?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> It sounds like you want the best of both worlds, OTA DVR and streaming, combined. That's what I want too. (And I would say streaming is the more important of the two to me, although I don't want to do without OTA TV.) When I bought my Roamio OTA a year ago, it certainly appeared to be the best available product for combining those two viewing sources and I held out hope that its streaming capabilities would improve. They have, somewhat, over the past 12 months, but not enough.
> 
> At this point, I've more or less given up hope that TiVo ever will develop into that ideal "one box" solution. It seem much more likely to me that we'll see one or more boxes out of the existing streaming platforms (Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, Android TV) gain high-quality OTA DVR capabilities that integrates with streaming content. (We kinda already have that option with Tablo TV, although it doesn't integrate into universe search, watchlists, or program guides/recommendations alongside streaming content, at least not yet.)
> 
> All those streaming boxes have a much larger installed user base than TiVo has and they have active developer communities targeting their platforms with new apps and accessories they want to sell. Just seems much more likely that we see a superior solution for cord-cutters bubble up there than from TiVo. Wonder if we'll have any interesting news about Android TV from Google's I/O keynote next week...


I would not hold my breath for a one box solution coming anytime soon. TiVo declared they had one over 6 years ago when they released the Premiere, it sucked. For a long time you could buy one from costume PC manufactures, they cost and arm and a leg and made TiVos with lifetime look cheap. Up to Windows 10 we also could have put together a one box solution our selves, but it was not an appliance.

No one is every going to build a one box solution that really does it all, it would cost to much. If a DVR is your main focus you get a Tivo, if you are focused on streaming and would just like a DVR throne in you get something else. Personally for a one box solution I would need a box that does everything my Bolt, HTPC, Blu-ray player, & Roku does - not going to happen.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

jonw747 said:


> Lack of 1080p support in Plex was just an example, and even that can't be dismissed as "last gen" when TiVo doesn't offer an upgrade path beyond the Roamio Plus/Pro. Apps vary from streaming box to streaming box. Some have more features than others. Some are more up to date then others.
> 
> If they could do it anywhere, you'd think it would be with Plex. Search would be nice, but just being able to add a show/movie on Plex to the Now Playing list would be nifty. Good "WAF" with that approach, but I think personally I'd still prefer the StreamBaby method.


The problem is that even the Plex app is just the Web app running in the embedded Opera Browser. MANY Rokus have processors that are much less capable than even the one in the Tivo Mini, yet Plex runs fine on them, even with 1080p streams. While it is true that the Tivos are running a lot more software than a Roku, the embedded browser imposes additional limitations.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

atmuscarella said:


> No one is every going to build a one box solution that really does it all, it would cost to much. If a DVR is your main focus you get a Tivo, if you are focused on streaming and would just like a DVR throne in you get something else. Personally for a one box solution I would need a box that does everything my Bolt, HTPC, Blu-ray player, & Roku does - not going to happen.


Blu-ray isn't that important to me; I'm fine having that remain in a separate device (which I rarely use, to be honest -- I'm glad disc-based media continues to exist as an option but, let's face it, it's dying). The iMac I'm typing this on works fine as a Plex Media Server for me, so I don't need a HTPC combined into my desired "one box," just a decent Plex client.

So I really only need a device that combines streaming + OTA DVR. And I'd rather have best-of-breed streaming with acceptably good OTA DVR functionality rather than what I have with the Roamio, which is a best-of-breed OTA DVR with below-par streaming functionality. But TiVo will do for now, while I keep an eye on what develops this year. Tablo has confirmed that they will be updating their Android TV app this year to offer greater integration with that platform, so that's one promising option. We may possibly also see DVR support on that platform directly from Silicon Dust, whose OTA network tuners already work with Android TV for live TV...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Diana Collins said:


> The problem is that even the Plex app is just the Web app running in the embedded Opera Browser. MANY Rokus have processors that are much less capable than even the one in the Tivo Mini, yet Plex runs fine on them, even with 1080p streams. While it is true that the Tivos are running a lot more software than a Roku, the embedded browser imposes additional limitations.


TiVo doesn't have the clout to demand apps be written in some native language like Roku apps. They had to adopt HTML5 because that was the only "easy" way for developers to port over their existing apps. (Samsung smart TVs use the same HTML5 apps)

I think TiVos biggest issue with the current boxes is memory. They don't have enough to meet the needs of the browser/apps and provide uninterrupted DVR functionality. The Bolt has 4x the memory of the Roamio, so they've obviously recognized and addressed the problem for future hardware. I assume all new units going forward, DVR and Mini, will contain this extra RAM as well. That eliminates a lot of the issues and limitations they have with the HTML5 platform running on the Premier/Roamio.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> Amazon, Roku and Samsung have way more pull then TiVo and they still use a generic apps platforms where every app uses different buttons to do different things. (just like TiVo does now) The only ones who actually have enough pull to force app developers to design special apps just for them are Apple and Microsoft (for Xbox). Other then that pretty much every other player is using a generic apps platform. So it's not like TiVo would really be any worse then other options when it came to how the apps worked. The biggest issue is whether or not they can get the apps on the device in the first place. Even with a generic HTM5 platform they still seem to have trouble getting apps to the device. I'm not sure if this is due to some sort of development complexity or some sort of business conflict, but they seem be really slow at getting new apps on to the device. If they could fix that issue, and get a few more key apps to the platform quickly, then I think they'd be a real viable option for cord cutters.


I disagree about Roku's apps being no better, performance-wise, than TiVo's HTML5 apps. There is greater consistency in how the Roku remote works across apps than there is with the TiVo remote -- at least that's been my experience using an older Roku. (I specifically love how Roku has the instant replay button that works in all apps!) And while major providers (Netflix, HBO Now, Showtime, etc.) may not make a Roku-specific UI for their apps that differs from other devices, I'm pretty sure that they have to develop a different codebase for Roku apps, don't they? Roku doesn't run generic HTML5 or Android apps. Roku is its own platform/OS. <Edit: Never mind. I see your remark above about Roku apps being written in their own language, so we agree there.>

I've wondered about the lag in getting HTML5 apps to TiVo too. Is there some sort of technical tweaking that has to happen (meaning they're not "generic" HTML5 apps) or is it just getting the business deal in place? For instance, HBO Go existed as an HTML5 app on the Samsung Smart TV platform for years before coming to TiVo. Why?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I wish I knew. The only thing I can figure is that every app on TiVo, with the exception of Plex, has data that ties into their search/OnePass. So maybe they only want apps that can do that? Or maybe there is some special tweaking/testing that has to be done and not every developer is willing to do that?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> I wish I knew. The only thing I can figure is that every app on TiVo, with the exception of Plex, has data that ties into their search/OnePass. So maybe they only want apps that can do that? Or maybe there is some special tweaking/testing that has to be done and not every developer is willing to do that?


Yeah, that's plausible. Except in the case of HBO Go, it was incorporated into the OnePass system (evidenced by the TiVo iOS app) several months (more than a year?) before the app actually came to TiVo.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

dan203 said:


> i wish i knew. The only thing i can figure is that every app on tivo, with the exception of plex, has data that ties into their search/onepass. So maybe they only want apps that can do that? Or maybe there is some special tweaking/testing that has to be done and not every developer is willing to do that?


mlb?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, that's plausible. Except in the case of HBO Go, it was incorporated into the OnePass system (evidenced by the TiVo iOS app) several months (more than a year?) before the app actually came to TiVo.


I think the HBOGo app was only recently translated to HTML5. I'm pretty sure the Samsung TV version of that app was Flash based until late last year. (I remember reading about that somewhere) Samsung TVs are sort of like the Premiere, new apps are required to be HTML5 but they still support Flash for older apps. TiVo took a hard stance with the Bolt and said they would no longer launch any apps that were not HTML5, so that could be why we didn't get HBOGo until now. That could also explain why some apps are available on Samsung TVs and not TiVos yet.

Although as I said before if they're going to add any more apps then they currently have they're really going to need a new UI for launching them. The current one is a bit unwieldy.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Speaking of launching from Tivo..

I wish you could go directly to a channel on YouBoob from any tivo menu/guide.

For example I frequently visit TYT and Bonzoleum

It would be nice to just click on something and go right to that YT channel.

OnePass.. "Unifying" Streaming Player


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Dan203 said:
> 
> 
> > I was referring to both the progress indicator Diana
> ...


My Shows, All, and then open a folder of shows. I see the following for example for Big Bang Theory where we've watched all but the last episode.










Scott


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Blu-ray isn't that important to me; I'm fine having that remain in a separate device (which I rarely use, to be honest -- I'm glad disc-based media continues to exist as an option but, let's face it, it's dying). The iMac I'm typing this on works fine as a Plex Media Server for me, so I don't need a HTPC combined into my desired "one box," just a decent Plex client.
> 
> So I really only need a device that combines streaming + OTA DVR. And I'd rather have best-of-breed streaming with acceptably good OTA DVR functionality rather than what I have with the Roamio, which is a best-of-breed OTA DVR with below-par streaming functionality. But TiVo will do for now, while I keep an eye on what develops this year. Tablo has confirmed that they will be updating their Android TV app this year to offer greater integration with that platform, so that's one promising option. We may possibly also see DVR support on that platform directly from Silicon Dust, whose OTA network tuners already work with Android TV for live TV...


Well, look what just turned up!

http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/14/hdhomerun-record-android-tv/

Looks like this could be a viable DVR solution for both OTA and CableCARD folks. What the actual performance and feature set will look like, we'll have to wait and see. But with this running under the upcoming version N of Android TV (which will support picture-in-picture as well as DVR functionality within its native Live Channels program grid), it could be pretty great.

Hope we hear plans at Google I/O this week for a 2nd gen Nexus Player with ethernet and USB 3.0 (for accessing external hard drives), as well as support for UHD streaming and 24p output.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Got it. Only useful if you keep a bunch of episodes around. And zero useful for multiple shows.

Really, I wish TiVo had more consistency in its My Shows list. It's all over the place.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Hard to trust Google in this field when they treat products like tech-demos.


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## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Well, look what just turned up!
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/14/hdhomerun-record-android-tv/
> 
> ...


From the posts in the SiliconDust forumss, the hdhomerun software isnt even a match for Windows Media Center based cablecard setups. They have an infinite way to go before they get to Tivo level of capabilities. The biggest complaints are total lack of a season pass and wish list sort of functionality and the complete lack of tuner conflict resolution and complete inability to record copy protected content. If there is a show you want recorded but all tuners are in use it does not reschedule the recording automatically. Its functionality seems remedial at best.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jonw747 said:


> Hard to trust Google in this field when they treat products like tech-demos.


And their main source of income is advertising, which is counter to a box who's main feature is to skip advertising.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

BRiT wtfdotcom said:


> From the posts in the SiliconDust forumss, the hdhomerun software isnt even a match for Windows Media Center based cablecard setups. They have an infinite way to go before they get to Tivo level of capabilities. The biggest complaints are total lack of a season pass and wish list sort of functionality and the complete lack of tuner conflict resolution and complete inability to record copy protected content. If there is a show you want recorded but all tuners are in use it does not reschedule the recording automatically. Its functionality seems remedial at best.


We'll have to see what they come out with but I'm not sure what you've gleaned is indicative of the final product they'll roll out this year, at least on Android TV. Protected channel support is nearing release for the Android TV version of their software, which appears to be the version that's furthest along. Recording protected channels in the Windows 10 version appears to be the most problematic, and it sounds like it may never happen there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275320038/hdhomerun-dvr-the-dvr-re-imagined/posts/1575561

That said, for cable TV subscribers who rely heavily on traditional linear TV and harvesting those shows to a hard drive, TiVo will likely continue to be a superior choice over whatever CableCARD-supported DVR solution that Silicon Dust rolls out (at least in the near term, given that TiVo's DVR software is very mature and SD is just getting started). For folks like me who are interested in a decent low-cost OTA DVR solution ($30 per year service fee) to act as a supplement to their streaming subscriptions and who want all of that integrated into one box, this could be pretty compelling. Time will tell...


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## wgameplaya (May 5, 2016)

Dan203 said:


> And their main source of income is advertising, which is counter to a box who's main feature is to skip advertising.


with Youtube red- they get the of the ads. I get that with google music.


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## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> We'll have to see what they come out with but I'm not sure what you've gleaned is indicative of the final product they'll roll out this year, at least on Android TV. Protected channel support is nearing release for the Android TV version of their software, which appears to be the version that's furthest along. Recording protected channels in the Windows 10 version appears to be the most problematic, and it sounds like it may never happen there.
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275320038/hdhomerun-dvr-the-dvr-re-imagined/posts/1575561
> 
> That said, for cable TV subscribers who rely heavily on traditional linear TV and harvesting those shows to a hard drive, TiVo will likely continue to be a superior choice over whatever CableCARD-supported DVR solution that Silicon Dust rolls out (at least in the near term, given that TiVo's DVR software is very mature and SD is just getting started). For folks like me who are interested in a decent low-cost OTA DVR solution ($30 per year service fee) to act as a supplement to their streaming subscriptions and who want all of that integrated into one box, this could be pretty compelling. Time will tell...


Their estimated delivery date was August 2015 to September 2015. They've overshot that by a long shot and even today are nowhere near what they sold the platform as being capable of.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

BRiT wtfdotcom said:


> Their estimated delivery date was August 2015 to September 2015. They've overshot that by a long shot and even today are nowhere near what they sold the platform as being capable of.


We'll see. Frankly, I don't personally care one way or another about CableCARD as that's something I'll probably never use. (It's dying anyway.) If I use it, it will be solely OTA.

Based on what I've read, I'm not sure your "nowhere near" assertion is true. But again, we'll see what it looks like when the final HDHomeRun DVR software for Android TV rolls out later this year.


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## wgameplaya (May 5, 2016)

NashGuy said:


> We'll see. Frankly, I don't personally care one way or another about CableCARD as that's something I'll probably never use. (It's dying anyway.) If I use it, it will be solely OTA.
> 
> Based on what I've read, I'm not sure your "nowhere near" assertion is true. But again, we'll see what it looks like when the final HDHomeRun DVR software for Android TV rolls out later this year.


this only big missed promise is you cant use the app outside of your wifi network. I just got an email from their marketing team that the bolt does this- even in the latest patch it does not. they should probably stop promising it does that or just deliver it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

BRiT wtfdotcom said:


> Their estimated delivery date was August 2015 to September 2015. They've overshot that by a long shot and even today are nowhere near what they sold the platform as being capable of.


I still haven't even installed it. Without protected channel support it's not really much use.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> I still haven't even installed it. Without protected channel support it's not really much use.


For cable subscribers, yes. For OTA folks, this is poised to become a serious direct competitor to the TiVo Roamio OTA, Tablo and ChannelMaster DVR+.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They say they're working on protected content support. But it keeps getting delayed. 

I hope it does become a viable alternative to TiVo, for both OTA and cable, because if Rovi pulls them under I'd like to have somewhere to jump ship. Which is the main reason I contributed to the kickstarter. Not because I need their product but because I wanted to help support an alternative.


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## dadrepus (Jan 4, 2012)

jcthorne said:


> Many of those are already available on Tivo via Plex. When counting apps for Tivo, you need to include all the Plex plugins. Like you said, most of these are small players but some of them are important to some.


And they are constantly breaking because the authors cannot keep up with Plex updates or changes to the parent site they are creating the channel for. It is a constant problem, with no end in site.


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## dadrepus (Jan 4, 2012)

NashGuy said:


> For cable subscribers, yes. For OTA folks, this is poised to become a serious direct competitor to the TiVo Roamio OTA, Tablo and ChannelMaster DVR+.


The Silicon Dust product requires too many boxes for me. 1tuner box, 1 android box, 1 NAS or computer or other storage box.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dadrepus said:


> The Silicon Dust product requires too many boxes for me. 1tuner box, 1 android box, 1 NAS or computer or other storage box.


It requires either an Android TV box with an internal hard drive (like the Shield Android TV 500GB) or one with a USB hard drive attached directly to the box. (Or if your storage needs are small, you could just stick a 128GB SD card in your Android TV box; that should hold 20 - 25 hours of MPEG2 HD.) And then the HDHomerun network tuner connected to your router (ideally via ethernet). So it's either 2 or 3 pieces, depending. But you don't need a NAS or separate computer.


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