# Simple features TiVo should have, but doesn't



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I was reading another thread and it got me thinking about this, so I thought I'd post it. This is my list of seemingly simple features that TiVo should have, but doesn't...

1) Recording of back to back programs, on the same channel, with padding should not conflict. Why is it that when you have back to back programs on the same channel, and one or both has some padding, it creates a conflict and forces TiVo to use two tuners and/or clip/cancel lower priority programs? It's all digital data. Can't TiVo be smart enough to share the data from one tuner between both recordings?

2) There should be a passive padding option that only applies the padding if it does not cause a conflict. Ideally it would be an automatic option that adds one minute of padding to both ends of every recording as long as it doesn't conflict. But a manual option that allows you to designate the padding applied to a recording as either important or passive would be OK to.

3) There should be a way to group all movies into a single folder. I record a lot of movies from premium channels. So many that they're starting to clutter my Now Playing list and obscure TV shows that I only have 1 episode of. It would be nice if there was an option to group all movies into a single folder. That way I could look in it if I was in the mood for a movie, but not have all the movies clutter up my Now Playing list with single entries.

What about you? If you could request a seemingly simple feature be added to TiVo what would it be? I'm not talking about anything complex, like cooperative scheduling or TiVo to TiVo streaming, but simple usability features that would make your TiVo experience better.

Dan


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> 2) There should be a passive padding option that only applies the padding if it does not cause a conflict. Ideally it would be an automatic option that adds one minute of padding to both ends of every recording as long as it doesn't conflict. But a manual option that allows you to designate the padding applied to a recording as either important or passive would be OK to.


This is why I never use padding because I don't want it to cancel another program that might not have a rerun in the lineup.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

It would be nice to be able to create your own folders (such as movies), but if you record the movies via the same wish list then they will appear in the same folder. Once recorded, there really isn't anything you can do. Though I guess (if you are not using the kidzone feature) select either the movies or programs to appear in the kidzone and they will be in their own list.


----------



## klj (Feb 26, 2010)

although i enjoy being able to copy programs from one tivo hd to another, i would like to be able to remotely delete the programs.


----------



## bikegeek (Dec 28, 2006)

I would love picture in picture and a button on the remote to set the sleep timer on my tv.


----------



## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

I totaly agree with #1 and #2. I never use padding and mostly I get the whole show but an automatic extra minute before and after if nothing else conflicts would be a great idea especially when combined with #1, it shouldn't be too hard to write the last minute of one show and the first minute of the next to two seperate recordings.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

klj said:


> although i enjoy being able to copy programs from one tivo hd to another, i would like to be able to remotely delete the programs.


You can do a remote delete, just press the clear button when on the remote program you want to delete.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

rainwater said:


> This is why I never use padding because I don't want it to cancel another program that might not have a rerun in the lineup.


TiVo gives you a 5 minute space for any conflict, IE you pad 1 minute to a high priority program and if another program that starts at the pad time will start 1 minute late, so if your on the same ch you will not miss anything, at worst you will miss the first 1 minute of the next program. This works out to 5 minutes.


----------



## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

lessd said:


> You can do a remote delete, just press the clear button when on the remote program you want to delete.


This works on Premiere, but not on my S3. It would be nice if it did.


----------



## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

My top simple feature would be a playlist. This could be done if the user could create folders and specify the order of the shows. It could be done by creating a separate file. If a show is selected, an option to add it to the playlist could be displayed.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Option to sort channels in the PG by name/call sign. In the era of 400 channels, sorting by number is very... antiquated. Especially when you have HD channels out in the "channel ghetto" of the 500's or even in the 1000's.

(Yes you can remove SD versions, and I did, but I'd still like a snappy way to find AMCHD, or SpikeTV, or whatever.)


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lessd said:


> TiVo gives you a 5 minute space for any conflict, IE you pad 1 minute to a high priority program and if another program that starts at the pad time will start 1 minute late, so if your on the same ch you will not miss anything, at worst you will miss the first 1 minute of the next program. This works out to 5 minutes.


Yes, it only works if it is on the same channel. That isn't a solution. I shouldn't need to know what times programs come on and on what channels. Once I prioritize my season passes, this is all handled for me. Except when using padding. Like Dan said, having the ability to pad when possible is a much better solution.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I was reading another thread and it got me thinking about this, so I thought I'd post it. This is my list of seemingly simple features that TiVo should have, but doesn't...
> 
> 1) Recording of back to back programs, on the same channel, with padding should not conflict. Why is it that when you have back to back programs on the same channel, and one or both has some padding, it creates a conflict and forces TiVo to use two tuners and/or clip/cancel lower priority programs? It's all digital data. Can't TiVo be smart enough to share the data from one tuner between both recordings?


There was another DVR, Replay, I think, that did this. I suspect it would be a patent violation if the TiVo did.



Dan203 said:


> 2) There should be a passive padding option that only applies the padding if it does not cause a conflict. Ideally it would be an automatic option that adds one minute of padding to both ends of every recording as long as it doesn't conflict. But a manual option that allows you to designate the padding applied to a recording as either important or passive would be OK to.


Well, it does, sort of. It will clip the padding of a lower priority recording. There is really no perfect solution for this, though. The main reason for padding is it is often necessary. Removing the padding often means clipping the program, and there is no good automated way to know which program will positively require the padding.



Dan203 said:


> 3) There should be a way to group all movies into a single folder. I record a lot of movies from premium channels. So many that they're starting to clutter my Now Playing list and obscure TV shows that I only have 1 episode of. It would be nice if there was an option to group all movies into a single folder. That way I could look in it if I was in the mood for a movie, but not have all the movies clutter up my Now Playing list with single entries.


I suggest moving most of the content off to a server and then use vidmgr.



Dan203 said:


> What about you? If you could request a seemingly simple feature be added to TiVo what would it be? I'm not talking about anything complex, like cooperative scheduling or TiVo to TiVo streaming, but simple usability features that would make your TiVo experience better.


What constitutes "complex"? Features that seem straightforward and obvious to a human are often devilishly difficult to program. The main things I would like to see are more flexible and straightforward conflict resolution and the ability to jump directly from the Received Channels list to the channel currently selected in that list and then jump directly back to the same entry from which one originally came. Thus, if one has channel 371 highlighted in the Received Channels list, let the user jump directly to channel 371, see what it's about, then jump directly back into the Received Channels list at channel 371.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bikegeek said:


> I would love picture in picture


I would pay a fair amount of money to insure the TiVo does not have this horrible feature. My Hitachi DLP has a lot of bothersome and problemaric features, but by far the worst is PinP.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You don't have to use Picture in Picture. I love it. I used to say I would never buy a TV that didn't have it, but my old TV died, and the new one I have doesn't have it.. However, the hard drive/DVD recorder that I use as the "switch" for multiple inputs most of the time to my TV does.. so I still use it all the time.. Watch something while doing Tivo SP maintenance in the PIP, or sometimes FFing through something else.

I would pay good money for #1 and #2, even though I am on lifetime subscriptions. As I have said before, #1 would essentially double the number of tuners that I have, since I need to pad practically everything.


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

klj said:


> although i enjoy being able to copy programs from one tivo hd to another, i would like to be able to remotely delete the programs.


Yeah, that's a nice one, and considering TiVo has a very easy UNerase, any goofs can be easily corrected.


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

1. Dish DVR's do this, but ironically I sometimes wish it didn't because what can happen is that you will have the last few seconds cut short, but they appear at the beginning on the subsequent recording on the same channel. The problem is if you aren't going to watch the shows in the same order they were recorded, you will forever miss some key narration or dialog, even if it is only 10 seconds. One has to set the start early at 2 min and end early at 3 (or the equivalent of 5 minutes of pad) for force the Dish DVR's to use both tuner to record both programs on the same channel in their entirety IF a channel is not adhering to precise time. At least with TiVo you will get both programs in their entirety, and TiVo may have thought more important, where Dish takes the opposite view.

2. While it may be a desired for some people, that really sounds like a software programming nightmare where the thing won't behave as the engineers want it to and it messes up other features, etc. overly complex things like that have a history of causing more problems then they fix on DVR's. I know it shouldn't be that way, but that is the real world in action.

3. Dish DVR's have a Custom Groups feature, which is really a create any folder and name it what you want. I do exactly what you desire on the Dish DVR's by crating a folder titled MOVIES and can have it automatically sent to that folder when the recording finishes or move any recording I want to it. I have to say the Dish Custom Groups feature has really allowed me to organize My Recordings list. No limit to the names you can use such as folders for different member of the household or name by genre or whatever. I have a folder titled Sunday Shows for those Sunday political shows. Also, the Dish will allow you to rename any recording, albeit with some limitations, but still a great feature.

As for PIP: I LOVE and just can't live w/o my PIP feature on Dish. It and picture in guide/menus are the only big things I miss when using my TiVo. Both implemented well by Dish and certainly not a "horrible" feature. The sad thing is Dish recently changed the software so that it removed the option NOT to have picture in guide/menus. That P.O'ed a number of people. DUMB move by Dish.

TiVo also got some Dish patents out of the settlement, and while I think they were only the patents that Dish attempted to sue TiVo over, it would be great if TiVo got some of those Dish patents that could make your suggestions a reality. Now, if we could TiVo's robust Search features onto a Dish DVR, that would make both DVR's almost perfect.


----------



## aridon (Aug 31, 2006)

I'd be happy if the HDUI was 100% and not slow as molasses

Netflix wasn't bugged with large season passes and I could browse stuff not in my queue.

I could be watching a recorded show, go into tivo menu for something and go back to said show without having to take 3 or 4 steps to do so.

Overlay emergency broadcast stuff over whatever i'm watching not just throw me to live tv.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Series3Sub said:


> 2. While it may be a desired for some people, that really sounds like a software programming nightmare where the thing won't behave as the engineers want it to and it messes up other features, etc. overly complex things like that have a history of causing more problems then they fix on DVR's. I know it shouldn't be that way, but that is the real world in action.


Media Center handles this with ease.

All of my shows are set to start 3 minutes early when possible and end 5 minutes late when possible. If the tuner is free 7MC extends the recording, but if the tuner is in use it just starts at the start time of the show.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

What is the need for all the padding? It's extremely rare that I need to add padding to my shows. And the few shows that need it do it on purpose on a regular basis. The vast majority of my Season Passes record by the time listed in the guide and I get 100% of the show. This has been the case with my Season Passes for ten years.
But of course in those situations where it is on the same channel, not tying up a tuner would be a great solution for padding.

I really hope the Elite comes out soon. It will be nice to have four tuners in one box. I haven't used several HD tuners in one device since the mid 2000's when I stopped using my HTPC.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> What is the need for all the padding? It's extremely rare that I need to add padding to my shows. And the few shows that need it do it on purpose on a regular basis. The vast majority of my Season Passes record by the time listed in the guide and I get 100% of the show. This has been the case with my Season Passes for ten years.
> But of course in those situations where it is on the same channel, not tying up a tuner would be a great solution for padding.
> 
> I really hope the Elite comes out soon. It will be nice to have four tuners in one box. I haven't used several HD tuners in one device since the mid 2000's when I stopped using my HTPC.


Many of my shows on TiVo and Media Center are off by a minute or more. I routinely lose the last minute or two of programming. I can't remember the last time I saw the previews for next week show. It may just be my local affiliates dropping the ball though USA is also bad about it since shows after WWE start late when WWE is live.

On an episode of Tosh.0 he even made a joke about it where he was coming up with a new closing line but it didn't matter since TiVo cuts it off anyway.


----------



## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

I would like the Recording History list to have more statuses. Instead of "Will not record", I would like to see "Conflict" or "Duplicate".

This would allow a quick review of future recordings to see if there is a conflict I might need to resolve, or it is just a duplicate that I can ignore. The only way to get this information now is to select every "will not record" to check the reason.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> 2) There should be a passive padding option that only applies the padding if it does not cause a conflict. Ideally it would be an automatic option that adds one minute of padding to both ends of every recording as long as it doesn't conflict.
> Dan


Based on some of the replies, few people understood what you were asking for here.

Automatic passive padding, if no conflict. There can be NO reason you wouldn't want this. -ZERO- reason. And yes, it should even work when you record back-to-back shows on the same network. You will have the same minute on two recordings, but who cares.

In addition to TiVos, I have a DirecTV HD DVR. It does this by default. And it's even smart enough to start the recording one minute in, so the front-end padding is not seen. If the broadcast started early, you use Rewind to go back into the padding; otherwise, you don't even realize it did it.

I probably had the DirecTV DVR for several months before I even realized it was front-end padding.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> What is the need for all the padding? It's extremely rare that I need to add padding to my shows. And the few shows that need it do it on purpose on a regular basis.


It depends on what channels you record from. Major networks start on time, but many others don't. Like MTV or sometimes USA. MTV is the worst as they can run over 3 or 4 minutes or start 3 or 4 minutes early.


----------



## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

rainwater said:


> It depends on what channels you record from. Major networks start on time, but many others don't. Like MTV or sometimes USA. MTV is the worst as they can run over 3 or 4 minutes or start 3 or 4 minutes early.


It's a strategy intended, in theory, to keep you locked onto a particular channel. The theory being that if they run a couple of minutes late, you'll stay on that channel since other channels have already started their shows. Except when everyone does it, it just becomes annoying. It's also a strategy used to, again _in theory_ to confound TiVos and DVRs, to encourage live viewing.

It would definitely be nice if TiVo did more advanced padding handling. It would be nicer if channels actually broadcast stuff when they said they would.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> It depends on what channels you record from. Major networks start on time, but many others don't. Like MTV or sometimes USA. MTV is the worst as they can run over 3 or 4 minutes or start 3 or 4 minutes early.


I routinely miss the last 30-60 secs of FOX shows unless I have padded them. Of course, you may not consider FOX to be a major network.. Also, some of the problems are the fault of the local affiliate.

All of the features in the first post are nice. _*None*_ of them is simple to implement.

At least one of the DTV HD DVRs did the first one. I could be wrong, but I suspect they did it by linking the same block to two recordings. Otherwise, you have to support two additional disk write streams (4 on the new Elite).


----------



## MeStinkBAD (Jul 16, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I was reading another thread and it got me thinking about this, so I thought I'd post it. This is my list of seemingly simple features that TiVo should have, but doesn't...
> 
> 1) Recording of back to back programs, on the same channel, with padding should not conflict. Why is it that when you have back to back programs on the same channel, and one or both has some padding, it creates a conflict and forces TiVo to use two tuners and/or clip/cancel lower priority programs? It's all digital data. Can't TiVo be smart enough to share the data from one tuner between both recordings?


Ummm... you'd end up with just one recording though. It would consist of two shows but you'd have to fast forward to the end of the first recording to get to the start of the second.

And yes it's all digital data. Compressed digital data. And the thing is with compressed video, the first frame has to be what is known as an I frame or Key Frame. Basically it's a self contained image. Frames before and after that are P or progressive frames. These rely on the frames or images that came before it in order to construct an image. So you always have to start with an I frame.

With analog TV the TiVo encoded the Video. So this wasn't an issue. But with digital TV, the encoding is done somewhere outside your home... and with sometimes as much as 5 to 10 seconds between I frames you may end up with a blank screen for the first few seconds of a show. Hence it's a lose-lose scenario.

---

EDIT Did I post this? Meh.... it's bogus. Ignore it.


----------



## MeStinkBAD (Jul 16, 2003)

rainwater said:


> It depends on what channels you record from. Major networks start on time, but many others don't. Like MTV or sometimes USA. MTV is the worst as they can run over 3 or 4 minutes or start 3 or 4 minutes early.


That's Viacom... they have been "rotating" their schedules during the day time so shows don't start on the top or bottom of the hour. The TiVo's guide reflects this also. So it's still recorded...


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> 1) Recording of back to back programs, on the same channel, with padding should not conflict. Why is it that when you have back to back programs on the same channel, and one or both has some padding, it creates a conflict and forces TiVo to use two tuners and/or clip/cancel lower priority programs? It's all digital data. Can't TiVo be smart enough to share the data from one tuner between both recordings?


This would be great for recording NFL football. I have a wish list search with one hour of padding so I don't miss the end of a game that runs long, and every week I have to go to the "to do" list and remove the padding on the first game of the double header and then schedule the second game to record with the one hour padding.



Dan203 said:


> 3) There should be a way to group all movies into a single folder. I record a lot of movies from premium channels. So many that they're starting to clutter my Now Playing list and obscure TV shows that I only have 1 episode of. It would be nice if there was an option to group all movies into a single folder. That way I could look in it if I was in the mood for a movie, but not have all the movies clutter up my Now Playing list with single entries.


I think if you created a wish list search for movies and selected the movie to record in the wishlist search, the movie would appear in a movies folder.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

MeStinkBAD said:


> The TiVo's guide reflects this also. So it's still recorded...


That's news to me. I've never seen it reflected in the guide for the channels I watch.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

rainwater said:


> It depends on what channels you record from. Major networks start on time, but many others don't. Like MTV or sometimes USA. MTV is the worst as they can run over 3 or 4 minutes or start 3 or 4 minutes early.


No, I have given MANY examples of major network shows that DO NOT use the correct time slots.. (technically they start "almost" on time.. but they definitely END after their allotted time, so you LOSE PROGRAMMING if you do not pad)



astrohip said:


> Automatic passive padding, if no conflict. There can be NO reason you wouldn't want this. -ZERO- reason. And yes, it should even work when you record back-to-back shows on the same network. You will have the same minute on two recordings, but who cares.


Since you were so vehement, I can think of a reason -- uses more disk space, and in an edge case, could cause a show you recorded to be deleted.

Yes, this is a feature I want, and would pay $$$$ for.. But you were saying there was no reason not to want it, so I had to give a reason.

Especially with HD channels, every minute takes up a ton of disk space.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

MeStinkBAD said:


> Ummm... you'd end up with just one recording though. It would consist of two shows but you'd have to fast forward to the end of the first recording to get to the start of the second.
> 
> And yes it's all digital data. Compressed digital data. And the thing is with compressed video, the first frame has to be what is known as an I frame or Key Frame. Basically it's a self contained image. Frames before and after that are P or progressive frames. These rely on the frames or images that came before it in order to construct an image. So you always have to start with an I frame.
> 
> With analog TV the TiVo encoded the Video. So this wasn't an issue. But with digital TV, the encoding is done somewhere outside your home... and with sometimes as much as 5 to 10 seconds between I frames you may end up with a blank screen for the first few seconds of a show. Hence it's a lose-lose scenario.


Did you mean to agree or did you accidently find another reason why the original posters idea makes even more sense?

Current method even if everything starts and ends per the guide Tivo misses potentially 10 seconds at start of second show while tuner looks for the needed frame.

Proposed method TiVo just reuses the end of the first show and viola its all there.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Based on some of the replies, few people understood what you were asking for here.
> 
> Automatic passive padding, if no conflict. There can be NO reason you wouldn't want this. -ZERO- reason. And yes, it should even work when you record back-to-back shows on the same network. You will have the same minute on two recordings, but who cares.
> 
> ...


If you turn on the TV and see a show in the buffer and hit record tivo starts saving the buffer from the beginning of the chunk before the start time in the guide. When you playback TiVo does the same thing of starting playback from the scheduled start time but allowing you to rewind.

So they're half way there. ;-)


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

One would hope that when TiVo gave directv patent rights in exchange for taking years to get a new directivo on sale that they would have asked for rights to directvs DVD patents themselves

Since directv owns replays stuff it then would have been covered. (If the earlier cross licensing with replaytv didn't already cover it)


----------



## djwilso (Dec 23, 2006)

I would like there to be a configuration that holds the defaults for newly created season passes, covering every option so that I don't need to manually set them for every new SP I want to create.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

MeStinkBAD said:


> And yes it's all digital data. Compressed digital data. And the thing is with compressed video, the first frame has to be what is known as an I frame or Key Frame. Basically it's a self contained image. Frames before and after that are P or progressive frames. These rely on the frames or images that came before it in order to construct an image. So you always have to start with an I frame.


Umm... I'm a developer for VideoReDo, an MPEG-2/H.264 editing program, so I know pretty well how MPEG-2 encoding works. 

I also know that the majority of broadcasts start a new GOP every 15-20 frames, so at 29.97fps that mean there is a new place to cut at least once per *second*. Meaning there is absolutely no technical reason TiVo couldn't copy the overlap between two shows on the same network between two "files". The one minute might be off by a 1/2 second or so, but I doubt anyone would notice.

However they wouldn't even need to do that. They could just design their file system so that every GOP was designated as a new block. Then they could just give ownership of the overlapping blocks to both programs. When one program is deleted they could delete all the blocks that belong exclusively to it and just de-reference the blocks that are also owned by other recording. Then when the second recording was deleted it could delete the overlapping blocks because it would, at that point, be the sole owner of those blocks.

In fact TiVo already does this to some extent in the live TV buffer where it continuously deletes just a few seconds at the start of the buffer as it adds new video to the end.

Dan


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

djwilso said:


> I would like there to be a configuration that holds the defaults for newly created season passes, covering every option so that I don't need to manually set them for every new SP I want to create.


Good one! :up: :up: :up:

Dan


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

I want the ability to record episodes I haven't yet seen, while not recording the 6000 replays of the same show that channels like discovery have. I know there is a "new episode" flag which may or may not be set correctly by the provider of the schedule info, but that flag is set (if it is set at all) on only the 1st showing of the new episode. If I miss that due to a conflict or a cable outage, it won't automatically record one of the many subsequent showings.

The feature I want would work like this: I'd tell it shows I want to watch and the TiVo would record the synposis of that episode from the guide along with the show itself. When the show comes on again, TiVo checks the synposis. If it is the same as one already recorded, it doesn't record that episode, if it is different, it does record that episode.

This is infinitely more useful and reliable than the "new episode" flag, though it wouldn't work for some shows that always have the same synopsis, but if it was an option I could select, it would work for an awful lot of shows.


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Here's one that would save many folks from apoplexy at the incompetence of cable companies:

Supposedly, cable companies are now offering self installs for cable cards, as well as web sites where you can type in your cable card information.

TiVo has an internet connection. TiVo can read all the serial numbers and wot-not off the cable card electronically.

Why doesn't the TiVo box itself go directly to the cable company's web site for cable card installs and feed it the information?

No possibility of typos, and self install now consists of nothing more than simply plugging in the cable card. (Of course, the cable companies are still incompetent enough to screw up their web sites so they don't work right, but if they happen to work, think of all the agony it saves .


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

The TiVo will currently speak to the network in various limited ways. It can talk telnet on a special port where you can send it simulated remote button presses. It can talk confusing semi-proprietary protocols to an iPad.

Why not make it talk plain old http so I could point any web browser on my local network at it and control it with a real keyboard on a high resolution display?

Season passes I could type rather than hunting and pecking with the remote.

Organize and delete old shows without suffering through a 30 second green circle for each individual operation.

Heck, make the interface html5 and it could do anything the iPad app can do, look just as good, and not need a custom app for each platform you want to support, any platform with an html5 capable browser would work.

Better yet - just keep going with html5. Make the native user inferface on the TiVo be a web browser and drop the flash garbage down the deepest, darkest, hole you can find.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

djwilso said:


> I would like there to be a configuration that holds the defaults for newly created season passes, covering every option so that I don't need to manually set them for every new SP I want to create.





Dan203 said:


> Good one! :up: :up: :up:
> 
> Dan


I swear the Series 1 and 2 had this. I know I was surprised when I picked up the TiVo HD and it didn't. I think this is one of the reasons I add all my season passes from their site now since they do offer default settings for season passes.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

tomhorsley said:


> I want the ability to record episodes I haven't yet seen, while not recording the 6000 replays of the same show that channels like discovery have. I know there is a "new episode" flag which may or may not be set correctly by the provider of the schedule info, but that flag is set (if it is set at all) on only the 1st showing of the new episode. If I miss that due to a conflict or a cable outage, it won't automatically record one of the many subsequent showings.


I agree here though I would even take it a step further. Since the Premiere in the HDUI has an episode guide, let me mark what episodes I have seen. Then on season passes give me an additional option to not record marked episodes. Also after watching an episode when you go to delete you would also be presented with a delete and mark so that TiVo would mark the episode after you watched and deleted it.



tomhorsley said:


> Why not make it talk plain old http so I could point any web browser on my local network at it and control it with a real keyboard on a high resolution display?


If you have a Premiere, you need to look into KMTTG. While it is Java based so the UI isn't like the iPad app, it lets you do most of what you want now. I find it the best and easiest way to manage season passes since you can quickly move the shows with the arrow keys.

Still I agree I would like to see TiVo Desktop 3.0 as I call it. Give me the iPad app combined with the current TiVo Desktop using the Premiere HDUI. Let me control TiVos or do anything I could do via the iPad app or the TiVo. You would have a My Shows page that listed TiVo recordings on your PC while also listing options to browse your TiVos so you could pull or push content to or from the PC.

My personal list

1. *User Profiles*...TiVo showed it off at the Premiere launch but still no word of it though supposedly it was a mock-up. This also opens up so many things you could do such as if two profiles are signed up to a show one profile could watch and delete, but that would only hide the episode from them. It wouldn't truly delete until the second profile would watch and delete. You could enable admin profiles so only certain profiles could delete. It would give you more parental controls since you could hide shows rather than basing it off a rating system. Etc Etc

2. *Universal Now Playing list/My Shows*. Combine with user profiles you could filter so you only see the shows you want to see. Add in admin profiles you can also lock down who can delete remotely from a TiVo or the iPad app. This way you could block your kids or roommates from deleting your shows from their TiVo.

3. *Streaming*. We know they are working on it and from what little I used it, it was very nice. Hopefully add in the TiVo Desktop 3.0 and Universal Now Playing List/My Shows and include PC transfers. This way you could stream also from the PC. Yes I know about streambaby but it would be nice to have it also.

4. *Soft padding as mentioned*

5. *Conflict Resolution* - I have really come to like how Media Center handles this. It lets you browse upcoming recordings and flags potential conflicts. You can then manually resolve this via two different options. The first one gives you a simple list of the conflicts at that time. You merely mark the series you want to record and you are able to mark as many shows as you have tuners. The second option presents you with an actual list of episodes and allows you to move them up and down until you get the priority you want. I believe when you do it this way it will also tweak your season pass priority order so the conflict doesn't come up again based on how you change the order.

6. *Future season passes and the ability to pause season passes.*
Much like Netflix's coming soon option, allow me to add shows that aren't in the guide data yet. Once they are in the guide data prompt me. This could even be limited to TiVo.com or TiVo Desktop 3.0, see above. I could also see this as a future wishlist option. If you create a wishlist for a series that isn't in the guide, when it shows up present me an option to convert to a season pass.

As far as pausing season passes, I would love to be able to remove season passes for shows not currently airing, but again be prompted if they show back up in the guide. This way you could clear out old season passes without having to delete and re-create them every season. Again this could just be limited to TiVo Desktop or TiVo.com

7. *Communication* - Finally related more to TiVo themselves. Open up. Give us changelogs. Be more forthcoming with your information. Poll us about design choices. Maybe even roll out some type of CE program like DirecTV offers where you are able to test for a weekend new builds just by forcing a download once you are enrolled. Allow access to IDKs and API so people like wmcbrine and moyekj can better develop their programs.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> I want the ability to record episodes I haven't yet seen, while not recording the 6000 replays of the same show that channels like discovery have. I know there is a "new episode" flag which may or may not be set correctly by the provider of the schedule info, but that flag is set (if it is set at all) on only the 1st showing of the new episode. If I miss that due to a conflict or a cable outage, it won't automatically record one of the many subsequent showings.
> 
> The feature I want would work like this: I'd tell it shows I want to watch and the TiVo would record the synposis of that episode from the guide along with the show itself. When the show comes on again, TiVo checks the synposis. If it is the same as one already recorded, it doesn't record that episode, if it is different, it does record that episode.
> 
> This is infinitely more useful and reliable than the "new episode" flag, though it wouldn't work for some shows that always have the same synopsis, but if it was an option I could select, it would work for an awful lot of shows.


Um, that's pretty much the way FRO SPs work now, at least on all of _my_ TiVos. Always has. It's not based on synopsis. That would be silly, since that is not available on a lot of shows. It's based on OAD.

Check out this thread for example. Particularly note posts 100-106.


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

lpwcomp said:


> Um, that's pretty much the way FRO SPs work now, at least on all of _my_ TiVos. Always has. It's not based on synopsis. That would be silly, since that is not available on a lot of shows. It's based on OAD.
> 
> Check out this thread for example. Particularly note posts 100-106.


What in the blue blazes is a FRO SP?


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> What in the blue blazes is a FRO SP?


First Run Only Season Pass.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> Um, that's pretty much the way FRO SPs work now, at least on all of _my_ TiVos. Always has. It's not based on synopsis. That would be silly, since that is not available on a lot of shows. It's based on OAD.
> 
> Check out this thread for example. Particularly note posts 100-106.


That doesn't do what he is asking though. This only works on new episodes with an air date in the last 30 days.

You can't use FRO SPs to record only single episodes of a show in syndication for example. I like to record shows like Storytellers and Unplugged. My options are either record new and repeats which will record the same episode over and over again after 30 days or new which will only record a brand new episode. What he is asking for is the ability to record an episode once even if the OAD is over 30 days.

There is currently no way to record an old show with old episodes and only record those episodes once other than manually selecting each episode.


----------



## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

Creating a season pass should give you the option of recording the show on other channels... ie... You shouldn't have to create a season pass for every channel.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> That doesn't do what he is asking though. This only works on new episodes with an air date in the last 30 days.[


 This is part of what he said:


tomhorsley said:


> I want the ability to record episodes I haven't yet seen, while not recording the 6000 replays of the same show that channels like discovery have. I know there is a "new episode" flag which may or may not be set correctly by the provider of the schedule info, but that flag is set (if it is set at all) on only the 1st showing of the new episode. If I miss that due to a conflict or a cable outage, it won't automatically record one of the many subsequent showings.


The TiVo doesn't use the "new episode" flag. I'm not sure they even get it. It's based on Original Air Date. FRO SPs work _*exactly*_ the way he wants.



innocentfreak said:


> You can't use FRO SPs to record only single episodes of a show in syndication for example. I like to record shows like Storytellers and Unplugged. My options are either record new and repeats which will record the same episode over and over again after 30 days or new which will only record a brand new episode. What he is asking for is the ability to record an episode once even if the OAD is over 30 days.


The problem with a lot of syndicated or even some shows on channels like Comedy Central is that they don't provide enough information to enable the TiVo to determine which episodes are duplicates.



innocentfreak said:


> There is currently no way to record an old show with old episodes and only record those episodes once other than manually selecting each episode.


 So you want the TiVo to keep track of every episode of every show you've ever recorded?

A first run & repeats SP is only going to record a particular episode _*once*_ every 28 days, assuming it has enough information to make that determination.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> This is part of what he said:
> 
> The TiVo doesn't use the "new episode" flag. I'm not sure they even get it. It's based on Original Air Date. FRO SPs work _*exactly*_ the way he wants.


He never says new episodes. He says episodes he hasn't seen. There is a difference For example I want to record Bones and see every episode I haven't seen without recording 6000 repeats. I have only seen 10 or so episodes of Bones. I have several shows I record that I only want to see certain episodes but my only option is to leave it on repeats and new and every month delete the repeats I recorded that I have already seen.



lpwcomp said:


> The problem with a lot of syndicated or even some shows on channels like Comedy Central is that they don't provide enough information to enable the TiVo to determine which episodes are duplicates.


In that case it can record the repeat. When it does have the guide data, which from my search is a majority of the time it would only record the episode once. I know some shows like the Daily Show have bad guide data on multiple airings, but the majority of the repeats out there not only have episode names, but episode and season numbers.



lpwcomp said:


> So you want the TiVo to keep track of every episode of every show you've ever recorded?


Yes. I want to be able to easily go back and record a show I have never seen without having to dig through episodes that are repeated over and over.



lpwcomp said:


> A first run & repeats SP is only going to record a particular episode _*once*_ every 28 days, assuming it has enough information to make that determination.


No disagreement here. This is how it has worked from the beginning. I am asking to have to ability to expand the 28 day rule to old series.

I don't know if you aren't using a Premiere or if you aren't using the HDUI, but the Premiere now has an episode guide built in. The Premiere knows what season and episodes are coming up of specific shows.

For example upcoming in Friends is, s04e13, s04e15, s04e07, s02e22 multiple times, s02e23 multiple times, s02e24 multiple times, s03e01, etc.

I just picked Friends since it is heavily syndicated. TiVo has the info. I am just asking and I think he is also for TiVo to be smart and use this for what episodes have and haven't been recorded.


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

lpwcomp said:


> First Run Only Season Pass.


OK. I do use that, and if TiVo misses the very first airing for some reason, I have never once had it pick up a subsequent airing of the same episode as a replacement.

I always have to manually schedule one of the subsequent airings to record. I've
had to do it several times for Mythbusters (which fortunately airs about a gazillion
times a week .


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> I want the ability to record episodes I haven't yet seen, while not recording the 6000 replays of the same show that channels like discovery have. I know there is a "*new* episode" flag which may or may not be set correctly by the provider of the schedule info, but that flag is set (if it is set at all) on only the 1st showing of the *new* episode. If I miss that due to a conflict or a cable outage, it won't automatically record one of the many subsequent showings.
> 
> The feature I want would work like this: I'd tell it shows I want to watch and the TiVo would record the synposis of that episode from the guide along with the show itself. When the show comes on again, TiVo checks the synposis. If it is the same as one already recorded, it doesn't record that episode, if it is different, it does record that episode.
> 
> This is infinitely more useful and reliable than the "*new* episode" flag, though it wouldn't work for some shows that always have the same synopsis, but if it was an option I could select, it would work for an awful lot of shows.





innocentfreak said:


> He never says new episodes. He says episodes he hasn't seen.


I suggest you read it again now that I have higlighted it for you.



innocentfreak said:


> There is a difference For example I want to record Bones and see every episode I haven't seen without recording 6000 repeats. I have only seen 10 or so episodes of Bones. I have several shows I record that I only want to see certain episodes but my only option is to leave it on repeats and new and every month delete the repeats I recorded that I have already seen.
> 
> In that case it can record the repeat. When it does have the guide data, which from my search is a majority of the time it would only record the episode once. I know some shows like the Daily Show have bad guide data on multiple airings, but the majority of the repeats out there not only have episode names, but episode and season numbers.
> 
> ...


IOW, as I said, you want the TiVo to keep track of every episode of every series that you have ever recorded, or at least for the ones for which you have a Season Pass.



innocentfreak said:


> I don't know if you aren't using a Premiere or if you aren't using the HDUI, but the Premiere now has an episode guide built in. The Premiere knows what season and episodes are coming up of specific shows.


The additional information in the "upcoming episodes' list is a function of the Premiere and the HD menus(which I am using). The *exact* same list is available on *any* TiVo. If using the HD menus on your Premiere, select an episode in "My Shows",arrow down to "More options" and select "View Upcoming Episodes". The appearance is different since it is HD, but the format is the same as other TiVos.(Actually, I could only confirm it on the THD. I can't get to the working TiVo 2 right now).



innocentfreak said:


> For example upcoming in Friends is, s04e13, s04e15, s04e07, s02e22 multiple times, s02e23 multiple times, s02e24 multiple times, s03e01, etc.
> 
> I just picked Friends since it is heavily syndicated. TiVo has the info. I am just asking and I think he is also for TiVo to be smart and use this for what episodes have and haven't been recorded.


That's my point. TiVo *does not* have the information. It doesn't keep track of everything you've ever recorded.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tomhorsley said:


> OK. I do use that, and if TiVo misses the very first airing for some reason, I have never once had it pick up a subsequent airing of the same episode as a replacement.
> 
> I always have to manually schedule one of the subsequent airings to record. I've
> had to do it several times for Mythbusters (which fortunately airs about a gazillion
> times a week .


I'd have to know the exact circumstances to have any chance of knowing why it didn't pick up subsequent showings. If it happens again, look in the recording history and see if it gives you a reason for not recording.

All I can say is it works for me and always has, which is why I organize my Season Passes so that shows that air multiple times have a lower priority than those that air only once.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> I suggest you read it again now that I have higlighted it for you.


I suggest you stop focusing on one word and read his whole comment.



tomhorsley said:


> *I want the ability to record episodes I haven't yet seen, while not recording the 6000 replays of the same show that channels like discovery have.* I know there is a "new episode" flag which may or may not be set correctly by the provider of the schedule info, but that flag is set (if it is set at all) on only the 1st showing of the new episode. If I miss that due to a conflict or a cable outage, it won't automatically record one of the many subsequent showings.





lpwcomp said:


> IOW, as I said, you want the TiVo to keep track of every episode of every series that you have ever recorded, or at least for the ones for which you have a Season Pass.


And as I said yes.



lpwcomp said:


> The additional information in the "upcoming episodes' list is a function of the Premiere and the HD menus(which I am using). The *exact* same list is available on *any* TiVo. If using the HD menus on your Premiere, select an episode in "My Shows",arrow down to "More options" and select "View Upcoming Episodes". The appearance is different since it is HD, but the format is the same as other TiVos.(Actually, I could only confirm it on the THD. I can't get to the working TiVo 2 right now).
> 
> That's my point. TiVo *does not* have the information. It doesn't keep track of everything you've ever recorded.


And I would direct you to the title of the thread. The information is available to the TiVo. As I previously said as indicated by the thread title, *Simple features TiVo should have, but doesn't*, this is a feature I want.

No one is saying or ever said TiVo keeps track of everything you've ever recorded. This has been something that some of us consider a simple feature TiVo should have, but doesn't.



lpwcomp said:


> I'd have to know the exact circumstances to have any chance of knowing why it didn't pick up subsequent showings. If it happens again, look in the recording history and see if it gives you a reason for not recording.
> 
> All I can say is it works for me and always has, which is why I organize my Season Passes so that shows that air multiple times have a lower priority than those that air only once.


It probably goes back to what I have been saying all along. If you only set for new episodes and miss it during the 28 days it will not record a missed episode. As a result there is no option to have TiVo only record episodes you haven't seen or previously recorded.

For example say you have Mythbusters set for new episodes. If you miss the premiere on 10/5 and also have conflicts during the times it reruns, which I currently show 4 additional times in the next 12 days, then it will never record assuming there are no other airings in the 28 days since the original air date.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I suggest you stop focusing on one word and read his whole comment.


I did read the whole comment. And in the portion I quoted, he was specifically talking about NEW episodes while you denied he ever used the word.



innocentfreak said:


> And I would direct you to the title of the thread. The information is available to the TiVo. As I previously said as indicated by the thread title, *Simple features TiVo should have, but doesn't*, this is a feature I want.
> 
> No one is saying or ever said TiVo keeps track of everything you've ever recorded. This has been something that some of us consider a simple feature TiVo should have, but doesn't.


You can't have it both ways. Either the information it needs to do this is currently available to the TiVo or it isn't.



innocentfreak said:


> It probably goes back to what I have been saying all along. If you only set for new episodes and miss it during the 28 days it will not record a missed episode. As a result there is no option to have TiVo only record episodes you haven't seen or previously recorded.
> 
> For example say you have Mythbusters set for new episodes. If you miss the premiere on 10/5 and also have conflicts during the times it reruns, which I currently show 4 additional times in the next 12 days, then it will never record assuming there are no other airings in the 28 days since the original air date.


That's not what he said. He said it wouldn't pick up ANY subsequent showing.

As for the title of the thread, the only thing "simple" about most of the features requested is the description. Most of them are far from simple to implement.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> I did read the whole comment. And in the portion I quoted, he was specifically talking about NEW episodes while you denied he ever used the word.
> 
> You can't have it both ways. Either the information it needs to do this is currently available to the TiVo or it isn't.
> 
> ...


Not what I said.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> Yes. I want to be able to easily go back and record a show I have never seen without having to dig through episodes that are repeated over and over.


Do Wishlists not work for this?
You go online and find the episode name and use that as a key word to make a wishlist.
Granted, you would have to make a wishlist for every episode you missed...
But seems like that would work.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

steve614 said:


> Do Wishlists not work for this?
> You go online and find the episode name and use that as a key word to make a wishlist.
> Granted, you would have to make a wishlist for every episode you missed...
> But seems like that would work.


They do, but like you said it would be a big pain especially when you consider multi season shows with 24 episodes a season.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mattack said:


> You don't have to use Picture in Picture.


Yes, you do. Any time one accidentally causes the wrong button to be hit (often when not intentionally pressing any button at all), that annoying damned window pops up, and then it takes all sorts of searching and fiddling to get the proper screen back. I used to have a Hitachi that did this, and I have a Mitsubishi that does it now. The developers of both should have their cojones cut off with a dull knife. It is the most needless and annoying thing I have ever encountered in the video arena.

The extra tuner also increases the cost of the unit.



mattack said:


> I love it. I used to say I would never buy a TV that didn't have it, but my old TV died, and the new one I have doesn't have it.. However, the hard drive/DVD recorder that I use as the "switch" for multiple inputs most of the time to my TV does.. so I still use it all the time.. Watch something while doing Tivo SP maintenance in the PIP


I do SP maintenance maybe once every two years, if that. Even if I did it more often, though, I pay attention to whatever I am doing. I don't give any consideration to any distractions and I certainly don't need any intentional distractions. If something is so boring that I woud be tempted to do something else while it is playing, then I don't watch it in the first place.



mattack said:


> or sometimes FFing through something else.


If something is so boring that I would be tempted to FF through it, I don't watch it in the first place. The only time I use FF at all is those rare times when I watch something with a commercial in it, and then FF is in use for only a few seconds, or even more rarely when I want to go back in the story to look at something and then FF back to where I was.



mattack said:


> I would pay good money for #1 and #2, even though I am on lifetime subscriptions. As I have said before, #1 would essentially double the number of tuners that I have, since I need to pad practically everything.


It does *NOT* double the number of tuners, essentially or otherwise. It simply slightly reduces the number of partly overlapping three-way conflicts. I'm not arguing against either #1 or #2, like I am the PIP crap, I simply pointed out #1 may not be possible due to patent conflicts, and that #2, far from being simple, would be tricky to implement effectively.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Series3Sub said:


> 1. Dish DVR's do this


Well, there you go. There is no way in hell Dish would not sue the ass off TiVo if they tried to implement it.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> As for the title of the thread, the only thing "simple" about most of the features requested is the description. Most of them are far from simple to implement.


Agreed. The same-channel padding is easy (but likely protected by patent), as are the suggestions I made, but few of the others are.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> Agreed. The same-channel padding is easy (but likely protected by patent), as are the suggestions I made, but few of the others are.


I read the thread as basic dvr features TiVo should offer and nothing about the complexity of implementing said feature.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I'd like to see some indication in the guide, marking shows that are already set to record. Like a highlight or a colored dot&#8230;?

It's always seemed awfully strange that this isn't in there already.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I think the Virgin TiVo video showed that in the new guide, but I may just be thinking of Media Center.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> Agreed. The same-channel padding is easy (but likely protected by patent), as are the suggestions I made, but few of the others are.


Since at least one of the DTV HD DVRs did it, it's doubtful that it is patented. If it were simple, I don't think they would be able to patent it. If I were doing it, it would be simple in design, just not simple to implement on a TiVo since it would probably require a major change to the file system.

Let's assume for the moment that a recording consists of a bunch of (probably doubly) linked blocks. Lets also assume that the TiVo knows what the first and last block are for each recording. You take a (hopefully) free bit in the block header or block allocation table and make it a dual allocation flag. When the overlapping recording starts, it sets the first block pointer for the new recording to the current block and also tells the system that it is using that tuner. System says "OK, that tuner is already in use. Until I am told differently, I will set the dual allocation flag for any block I allocate to that tuner". When the first recording ends, it sets the last block pointer to the current block and tells the system that it is no longer using that tuner so any subsequent blocks allocated will not have the flag set.

When a recording is permanently deleted, only those blocks that do not have the flag set will be freed. Otherwise, the flag will be cleared.

Take all of this with a huge portion of sodium chloride or perhaps potassium nitrate. I have no idea how the TiVo file system works or how it allocates blocks. Although I was an O/S analyst for 17 years, it was A) 20 years ago and B) on CDC* mainframes.

* Control Data Corporation, *not* the Centers for Disease Control.


----------



## DogFace (Apr 26, 2005)

For watchers of news programing, TIVO needs a switch that prevents the recording of multiple broadcasts of the same program title within a 24 hour period. Perhaps this could apply only to progams in the news category, or only to progams with identical and/or generic episode descriptions.

Without episode data in the guide, most season passes of various cable channel news and talk programs result duplicate recordings.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

There's a simple solution for resolving recording conflicts - get more tuners! I've never run into any conflicts because I always had sufficient tuners available to record anything I ever wanted. My current HTPC has twelve tuners (eight digital cable and four ATSC), all of which can record simultaneously should the need ever arise. 

The main reason for so many tuners is because I pad everything I record. It's not so much of an issue with a Tivo but the clock on my HTPC can drift over time so padding is essential to avoid missing the beginning or end of a broadcast until I get around to resetting the clock. Still, I always padded my Tivo recordings because networks have a habit of changing their recording schedule on a moment's notice and the Tivo doesn't always get the change in time to make the adjustment.

PIP is more of a function of your TV and doesn't belong in a Tivo, IMHO. You'd need to include additional hardware in the Tivo to provide two separate outputs or even to integrate a PIP composite image to the TV. Get a 2nd Tivo and connect it to the same TV and you'll take care of conflicts as well as have your PIP, too.


----------



## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

> My personal list
> 
> 1. User Profiles...TiVo showed it off at the Premiere launch but still no word of it though supposedly it was a mock-up. This also opens up so many things you could do such as if two profiles are signed up to a show one profile could watch and delete, but that would only hide the episode from them. It wouldn't truly delete until the second profile would watch and delete. You could enable admin profiles so only certain profiles could delete. It would give you more parental controls since you could hide shows rather than basing it off a rating system. Etc Etc
> 
> ...


Dang, it's like we are the same person.  these are all items on my list.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> Since at least one of the DTV HD DVRs did it, it's doubtful that it is patented. If it were simple, I don't think they would be able to patent it. If I were doing it, it would be simple in design, just not simple to implement on a TiVo since it would probably require a major change to the file system.
> 
> Let's assume for the moment that a recording consists of a bunch of (probably doubly) linked blocks. Lets also assume that the TiVo knows what the first and last block are for each recording. You take a (hopefully) free bit in the block header or block allocation table and make it a dual allocation flag. When the overlapping recording starts, it sets the first block pointer for the new recording to the current block and also tells the system that it is using that tuner. System says "OK, that tuner is already in use. Until I am told differently, I will set the dual allocation flag for any block I allocate to that tuner". When the first recording ends, it sets the last block pointer to the current block and tells the system that it is no longer using that tuner so any subsequent blocks allocated will not have the flag set.
> 
> ...


Probably pointless to discuss since they aren't likely to do anything. But...

With drive prices always falling they could just increase drive sizes and lower their estimates of how many hours per gig. Take the fudge factor and just duplicate the chunk from :59 to :01. MIGHT be simplier or fit their systems better...


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> 6. *Future season passes and the ability to pause season passes.*
> Much like Netflix's coming soon option, allow me to add shows that aren't in the guide data yet. Once they are in the guide data prompt me. This could even be limited to TiVo.com or TiVo Desktop 3.0, see above. I could also see this as a future wishlist option. If you create a wishlist for a series that isn't in the guide, when it shows up present me an option to convert to a season pass.


I set up wishlists on my HTPC in Media Center for all the new fall shows I wanted to record that had not yet appeared in my guide. I was going out of town for several weeks and had no other way to set up the recordings. Since I already knew what channels the shows were being aired on I could basically set up a future season pass by specifying the necessary parameters in the wishlist. Upon returning home from my trip I found that all of the shows I wanted to record were recorded and the new season passes were added to my schedule.



> As far as pausing season passes, I would love to be able to remove season passes for shows not currently airing, but again be prompted if they show back up in the guide. This way you could clear out old season passes without having to delete and re-create them every season. Again this could just be limited to TiVo Desktop or TiVo.com


I don't follow the rationale behind this. If a show is in hiatus (i.e., only airing reruns) you should be able to specify new shows only in your season passes. They have zero affect on what's currently in the guide so I see no point in deleting them, unless you have so many season passes that you exceed the Tivo's limit (100 SP's, IIRC). I typically have 50 or 60 season passes in my queue at any given time even though many of them are currently between seasons. Many cable series only air 10-13 episodes in a season and some only that many in a year. I see no reason to delete them just because they aren't airing new episodes at the moment.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> Probably pointless to discuss since they aren't likely to do anything. But...
> 
> With drive prices always falling they could just increase drive sizes and lower their estimates of how many hours per gig. Take the fudge factor and just duplicate the chunk from :59 to :01. MIGHT be simplier or fit their systems better...


It's not the drive space that is the issue, it is the additional disk write stream.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> I set up wishlists on my HTPC in Media Center for all the new fall shows I wanted to record that had not yet appeared in my guide. I was going out of town for several weeks and had no other way to set up the recordings. Since I already knew what channels the shows were being aired on I could basically set up a future season pass by specifying the necessary parameters in the wishlist. Upon returning home from my trip I found that all of the shows I wanted to record were recorded and the new season passes were added to my schedule.


I realize wishlists are an option, but I don't want to clutter up the TiVo season pass manager with shows to air sometime in the future. The idea is to do it like Netflix where it is a separate list from the main season pass manager. The idea is more that the TiVo or at least TiVo.com should be aware of every show so you can make a season pass for that specific show even if it isn't in the guide.

Also I have had wishlists miss recordings because of subtle changes to genre.



mr.unnatural said:


> I don't follow the rationale behind this. If a show is in hiatus (i.e., only airing reruns) you should be able to specify new shows only in your season passes. They have zero affect on what's currently in the guide so I see no point in deleting them, unless you have so many season passes that you exceed the Tivo's limit (100 SP's, IIRC). I typically have 50 or 60 season passes in my queue at any given time even though many of them are currently between seasons. Many cable series only air 10-13 episodes in a season and some only that many in a year. I see no reason to delete them just because they aren't airing new episodes at the moment.


TiVo doesn't have any limit on season passes I have found, but yes I am well over 100. It does make it more challenging though to prioritize passes the more you have though with KMTTG it is much easier.

These days it is more and more common though to break up shows with multiple months of no episodes. By deleting the season passes you have the potential to miss when the show starts back up, but leaving it on clutters the list. For example we record I shouldn't be Alive. It just came back from a 2 month hiatus with no real notice. During those 2 months it is just a show taking up a spot in the season pass manager and serves no real purpose.

Also this could be a way to create wishlists for shows without having the wishlists on the TiVo. You would just be prompted that show A is now in the guide on channel 5 and ask if you want a season pass. It would then send the season pass to the TiVo just like you requested it from the website that day.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> It's not the drive space that is the issue, it is the additional disk write stream.


From threads talking about drives writting 2 more streams isn't going to matter on a normal premier- actually the elite proves that. (Could be an issue on elite but I forget the exact numbers- seem to recall 22 streams would be fine but might be my imagination)

Also its not time critical. The tivo cocould copy the extra blocks a few seconds later and wouldn't matter.

Anyway they wont do it so not really worth wasting too much of our time discussing.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> ...The idea is more that the TiVo or at least TiVo.com should be aware of every show so you can make a season pass for that specific show even if it isn't in the guide. ...


That's a good point itself. TiVo isn't leveraging their cloud except for ads and artwork.

They could even use their servers for a limited cooperative scheduling. Their server could find out when something won't record do to conflicts and then record it as something less than an explicit recording but more than a suggestion on your other boxes. Would be better than nothing.


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Dan203 said:


> 1) Recording of back to back programs, on the same channel, with padding should not conflict. Why is it that when you have back to back programs on the same channel, and one or both has some padding, it creates a conflict and forces TiVo to use two tuners and/or clip/cancel lower priority programs? It's all digital data. Can't TiVo be smart enough to share the data from one tuner between both recordings?


DirecTV has a very simple implementation of back to back padding. It authomatically adds few minutes to the end of the show 1 and beginning of the show 2. It uses single tuner to do that, just splits the recording block in two places and ads a midle segment to both recordings.


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

lpwcomp said:


> The additional information in the "upcoming episodes' list is a function of the Premiere and the HD menus(which I am using). The *exact* same list is available on *any* TiVo. If using the HD menus on your Premiere, select an episode in "My Shows",arrow down to "More options" and select "View Upcoming Episodes". The appearance is different since it is HD, but the format is the same as other TiVos.(Actually, I could only confirm it on the THD. I can't get to the working TiVo 2 right now).


In addition to the "upcoming episodes" list I believe the Premiere has the same "episode guide" feature that the TiVo Search beta (for TiVoHDs) has.

_That_ list shows you every episode (sorted by seasons) whether or not they're currently available on tv, amazon, etc.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Jonathan_S said:


> In addition to the "upcoming episodes" list I believe the Premiere has the same "episode guide" feature that the TiVo Search beta (for TiVoHDs) has.
> 
> _That_ list shows you every episode (sorted by seasons) whether or not they're currently available on tv, amazon, etc.


Yes, but for the current season it only shows what has already aired and what is in the guide data. IOW, "episode guide" doesn't know any more about future airings than "upcoming episodes" does.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> There's a simple solution for resolving recording conflicts - get more tuners! I've never run into any conflicts because I always had sufficient tuners available to record anything I ever wanted. My current HTPC has twelve tuners (eight digital cable and four ATSC), all of which can record simultaneously should the need ever arise.
> 
> The main reason for so many tuners is because I pad everything I record. It's not so much of an issue with a Tivo but the clock on my HTPC can drift over time so padding is essential to avoid missing the beginning or end of a broadcast until I get around to resetting the clock. Still, I always padded my Tivo recordings because networks have a habit of changing their recording schedule on a moment's notice and the Tivo doesn't always get the change in time to make the adjustment.
> 
> PIP is more of a function of your TV and doesn't belong in a Tivo, IMHO. You'd need to include additional hardware in the Tivo to provide two separate outputs or even to integrate a PIP composite image to the TV. Get a 2nd Tivo and connect it to the same TV and you'll take care of conflicts as well as have your PIP, too.


You should be setting your clock regularly. There is no need for the clock in a pc to drift. Mine are set every hour.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> You should be setting your clock regularly. There is no need for the clock in a pc to drift. Mine are set every hour.


It is a known issue with the Microsoft time servers though that may not be his problem. Windows tends to be setup as a default using the Microsoft servers to sync. The Microsoft servers seem to not keep the most accurate time and it becomes instantly obvious if you are using the PC clock for your recording schedule.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> You should be setting your clock regularly. There is no need for the clock in a pc to drift. Mine are set every hour.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. To invest in (and be forced to administrate) an HTPC with twelve tuners (!) to make up for the fact that _the computer's clock drifts?_ And then relying on those tuners until the owner can manually reset the clock?

#1, why is the clock drifting in the first place, so regularly? That would bug me and I certainly wouldn't see buying more hardware as a sensible "solution" for that.

#2, surely you could use software that synchronizes with atomic clock?


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> It is a known issue with the Microsoft time servers though that may not be his problem. Windows tends to be setup as a default using the Microsoft servers to sync. The Microsoft servers seem to not keep the most accurate time and it becomes instantly obvious if you are using the PC clock for your recording schedule.


Surely then there's a way to select other, more accurate servers to sync with or a way to use some other utility to achieve the same result?

If not, well, I'd avoid using an HTPC for that reason out of principle alone. When I want to watch TV I want a DVR that does all the work for me. I do troubleshooting all day. Even if it means I miss a show here or there, or the beginning/end of a show is cut off by a minute or two. I certainly don't intend to install 12 tuners in a box that can't even keep accurate time, that's for sure.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I read the thread as basic dvr features TiVo should offer and nothing about the complexity of implementing said feature.


From the original post:



Dan203 said:


> What about you? If you could request a seemingly simple feature be added to TiVo what would it be? I'm not talking about anything complex, like cooperative scheduling or TiVo to TiVo streaming, but simple usability features that would make your TiVo experience better.


I suppose you might be distinguising between the complexity of using the feature vs. implementing it, but that is specious. No matter how complex or simple the feature is to implement, it should be simple for the user. Not only that, but I would argue the entire notion of "...TiVo should have..." is predicated upon the idea that it would be easy for TiVo to implement. Finally, the fact the OP is a developer would suggest his focus would tend to be on low hanging fruit from a programming perspective.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Fofer said:


> Surely then there's a way to select other, more accurate servers to sync with or a way to use some other utility to achieve the same result?


Yeah under adjust date/time on Win 7 you can pick other servers to sync with. Most don't realize it until it happens. I have just heard it mentioned on several Media Center podcasts which is the only reason I knew about it.


----------



## JSearfoss (Nov 17, 2008)

stark said:


> I would like the Recording History list to have more statuses. Instead of "Will not record", I would like to see "Conflict" or "Duplicate".
> 
> This would allow a quick review of future recordings to see if there is a conflict I might need to resolve, or it is just a duplicate that I can ignore. The only way to get this information now is to select every "will not record" to check the reason.


I'll second this one !!! This seams like it would be a simple change and make it so much easier to scan the list and see what's happening.


----------



## ort (Jan 5, 2004)

When I choose to stop recording something that is currently being taped I want three options.

Right now there is...
STOP RECORDING
CANCEL

I want
STOP RECORDING AND DELETE
STOP RECORDING
CANCEL

I watch a lot of sports and I always add an hour to the end. I've got it down to where I generally start watching an hour late but by the end of the game, I'm pretty close to live. Every single time, you have to hit STOP RECORDING and then go back into the item and choose delete. It's annoying.

************************

I know people have been bickering about the TiVo being able to store more than 28 days of data, but lets be realistic here. How much memory can this really take up? Especially if it only happens on shows you flag.

Going back on this, I want the ability for you to be able to setup a season pass that will record your shows in proper sequential order. Even older shows. It would just know what the next episode should be and would only tape that one. Nothing else.

I'm sure this would be fairly complicated to figure out, but whatever. We pay them $19.95 a month for practically nothing right now, so why not actually do something interesting with the guide data.

*********

I want to be able to put to put labels on shows, and then sort my shows by label. All of my wife's shows would be in a folder, All of my kids shows would be in a folder... etc...

You could make your own custom tags and apply them to individual shows or seasons passes.

***************

I want to be able to record "suggestions PLUS". I don't know what you would call them, but it would work like this. Let's take a show like the Family Guy. I like the show, but I don't feel the need to watch it all the time. I like it, but it's not that important. A whole lot of shows I like fall into this category. I want to be able to setup "soft" season passes for dozens of these shows and have the TiVo tape them whenever it can and put them into a special folder right above the SUGGESTIONS.

When it comes time to delete shows, suggestions will go first, THEN the shows in my "soft" season pass folder, THEN the rest of the shows.

This will allow me to have 50 episodes of dozens of shows like the Family Guy without worrying about anything important getting deleted because they are on there.

****************


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

lrhorer said:


> Finally, the fact the OP is a developer would suggest his focus would tend to be on low hanging fruit from a programming perspective.


That's exactly what I meant. Features that would, seemingly be easy for TiVo to add without extensive overhaul to the whole system. Things like soft padding and global SP options are minor logic issues that "should" be relatively easy to add. Things like user profiles and streaming would require major system wide changes and would not be something I'd consider easy.

Dan


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Certainly putting a little blue dot in the guide next to shows that are scheduled to record (and in the "To Do list" already) should be relatively easy to add.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

But it's funny to watch relatively benign wishlist threads almost always turn into debates. 

Like back before the Premiere, self-elected experts said "no" to almost every idea and insisted Tivo would implode under a barrage of customer service calls if they included Hulu or a free space meter. That was awesome.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

djwilso said:


> I would like there to be a configuration that holds the defaults for newly created season passes, covering every option so that I don't need to manually set them for every new SP I want to create.


+1. For some reason, in the Mountain time zone, the major networks all start their prime time programming 2 minutes early, so I have to manually edit every season pass or I miss the start of every program.


----------



## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

jfh3 said:


> +1. For some reason, in the Mountain time zone, the major networks all start their prime time programming 2 minutes early, so I have to manually edit every season pass or I miss the start of every program.


So the change should be Tivo sync'ing it's time with the cable company or network. I am sure they thought the show started on time but your clock appears to be different...


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Fofer said:


> Certainly putting a little blue dot in the guide next to shows that are scheduled to record (and in the "To Do list" already) should be relatively easy to add.


:up: This feature alone would up my Tivo experience to 90% (I don't use many extras  ).


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Soapm said:


> So the change should be Tivo sync'ing it's time with the cable company or network. I am sure they thought the show started on time but your clock appears to be different...


It's not the cable company. Same problem out here with OTA broadcasts. I read somewhere the local networks do it on purpose, but don't remember the source.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Another easy thing -

Have an option to sort items in a folder by episode number.


----------



## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

jfh3 said:


> It's not the cable company. Same problem out here with OTA broadcasts. I read somewhere the local networks do it on purpose, but don't remember the source.


I live in Aurora by Fitz and haven't noticed the problem which is why I suggested the time on your Tivo might be off...


----------



## Soapm (May 9, 2007)

jfh3 said:


> Another easy thing -
> 
> Have an option to sort items in a folder by episode number.


I'll second this one and original air date. Nothing like a bunch of episodes all out of sequence...


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

How about just finishing the HD UI? It's beyond embarrassing at the point. Like, did they just give up, or what?


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> It is a known issue with the Microsoft time servers though that may not be his problem.


Please provide a reference for this. I am the furthest thing on Earth from being a Microsoft fan, but NTP is a fully mature protocol, and Stratum I time servers are off-the-shelf devices. I find it highly unlikely a company the size of MS cannot afford a couple of $30,000 time servers, and an NTP server is too simple a device for even MS to screw up.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> You should be setting your clock regularly. There is no need for the clock in a pc to drift. Mine are set every hour.


I haven't actually checked the accuracy of my HTPC's clock in several months. I just recall that the last time I set it I was able to FF to exactly the amount of padding I had specified at the beginning of each recording (10 minutes) to get to the start of the program. There's an issue with WMC that requires you to specify a padding of 10 minutes before and after to prevent back-to-back recordings getting truncated. Current recordings seem to be starting about a minute later than what I remember.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Soapm said:


> I'll second this one and original air date. Nothing like a bunch of episodes all out of sequence...


This would be a completely useless feature (except for the original air date, which is displayed in WMC for every recording), unless you like seeing shows out of sequence. Episodes of TV shows are not always aired in sequence by episode number. Check out any given TV show listing at epguides.com and you'll see what I mean. They list each episode of every show by the date they originally aired. The episode numbers tend to be all over the place.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> Please provide a reference for this. I am the furthest thing on Earth from being a Microsoft fan, but NTP is a fully mature protocol, and Stratum I time servers are off-the-shelf devices. I find it highly unlikely a company the size of MS cannot afford a couple of $30,000 time servers, and an NTP server is too simple a device for even MS to screw up.


http://www.pcworld.com/article/76744/is_microsofts_time_warped.html

http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2011/07/22/media-center-quick-tip-fix-record-startstop-time-problems/

http://www.hack7mc.com/2010/03/changing-microsoft-time-synchronization-settings.html

Just to link a few.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> This would be a completely useless feature (except for the original air date, which is displayed in WMC for every recording), unless you like seeing shows out of sequence. Episodes of TV shows are not always aired in sequence by episode number. Check out any given TV show listing at epguides.com and you'll see what I mean. They list each episode of every show by the date they originally aired. The episode numbers tend to be all over the place.


I pretty much only record new shows, first run only. They air in order.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Fofer said:


> I pretty much only record new shows, first run only. They air in order.


Depends on which order you mean . Not all shows are actually shown in order even as first run. Of course some argue whether aired order is the actual order or whether you should go by DVD order.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

innocentfreak said:


> Not all shows are actually shown in order even as first run.


Well, I'm sure there are exceptions (blah blah blah Firefly) but my point was, the vast, vast majority of the shows I've watched in my lifetime have aired in order.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Fofer said:


> Well, I'm sure there are exceptions (blah blah blah Firefly) but my point was, the vast, vast majority of the shows I've watched in my lifetime have aired in order.


How do you know for sure? News shows are generally live so there's no order to mess with. However, shows like 60 Minutes or 20/20 have definitely aired out of sequence over the years. The order you've seen other shows aired is the order in which they were broadcast and has nothing to do with the episode number.

A prime example of this is The Simpsons. The storylines are not sequential so they're aired in whatever sequence the broadcaster sees fit to show them. Shows that have a serial plot will be more likely to air in episode order, but even that's not locked in concrete. Continuing stories can be aired out of sequence when individual episodes can stand alone but add to the overall story as a piece of the puzzle.

Listing episode numbers are fine as part of the metadata but they have no specific impact on the order a series of programs are actually aired. The original air date is a much more meaningful tidbit of information for knowing the sequence in which the episodes were shown.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> It is a known issue with the Microsoft time servers though that may not be his problem. Windows tends to be setup as a default using the Microsoft servers to sync. The Microsoft servers seem to not keep the most accurate time and it becomes instantly obvious if you are using the PC clock for your recording schedule.


I ndon't use the MS time servers. I use the federal government ones.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> How do you know for sure?


I know for sure, at least with the shows I watch, because the shows I watch have continuous narratives, with storylines and character development, and wouldn't make any sense if they were viewed out of order.



mr.unnatural said:


> The original air date is a much more meaningful tidbit of information for knowing the sequence in which the episodes were shown.


Well, I'd say the episode numbering scheme is intended by the show's creators as the order in which the show was meant to be viewed, wouldn't you? Why else would they number them that way?

Regardless, it would be nice if the TiVo's NP list could be sorted in any number of ways&#8230; by name, by date recorded, by episode number, whatever.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> I ndon't use the MS time servers. I use the federal government ones.


mr.unnatural, you should do this too. Then maybe you won't need 12 tuners in your Windows HTPC to make up for your clock "drift."


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

ort said:


> When I choose to stop recording something that is currently being taped I want three options.
> 
> Right now there is...
> STOP RECORDING
> ...


I'm pretty sure I've seen that when canceling a suggestion that's recording...
But whether or not I have I'd like this feature; really it shouldn't scare people if TiVo gives them more than 2 options occasionally.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> Another easy thing -
> 
> Have an option to sort items in a folder by episode number.


Finally, something on which we agree.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

tomhorsley said:


> I want the ability to record episodes I haven't yet seen, while not recording the 6000 replays of the same show that channels like discovery have. I know there is a "new episode" flag which may or may not be set correctly by the provider of the schedule info, but that flag is set (if it is set at all) on only the 1st showing of the new episode. If I miss that due to a conflict or a cable outage, it won't automatically record one of the many subsequent showings.
> 
> The feature I want would work like this: I'd tell it shows I want to watch and the TiVo would record the synposis of that episode from the guide along with the show itself. When the show comes on again, TiVo checks the synposis. If it is the same as one already recorded, it doesn't record that episode, if it is different, it does record that episode.
> 
> This is infinitely more useful and reliable than the "new episode" flag, though it wouldn't work for some shows that always have the same synopsis, but if it was an option I could select, it would work for an awful lot of shows.


In that scenario, episode number would probably work as well as, if not better than, synopses.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> If you turn on the TV and see a show in the buffer and hit record tivo starts saving the buffer from the beginning of the chunk before the start time in the guide. When you playback TiVo does the same thing of starting playback from the scheduled start time but allowing you to rewind.
> 
> So they're half way there. ;-)


On my S1s and S2s, if what's in the buffer is the last 29 minutes of the previous show and the first minute of the currently scheduled one, hitting record causes it to start the recording and reset the beginning of the buffer to one minute ago.

In other words, if I want to see that 29 minutes I have to "rewind" and watch before hitting record or it gets flushed.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> http://www.pcworld.com/article/76744/is_microsofts_time_warped.html
> 
> http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2011/07/22/media-center-quick-tip-fix-record-startstop-time-problems/
> 
> ...


Well, even I did not think Microsoft was quite that incompetent, but it seems it may be the case. When I put the MS NTP server in my ntp server's peer list, it doesn't respond. Interestingly enough, when I first looked up the first link you provided, I was using one of my company-owned PCs, which run Windows and Internet Explorer. That link crashed IE without fail.

I do agree the TiVo should run NTP. That's why all three of mine do. Frankly, there is no excuse for TiVo not to run NTP. Its resource requirements are insignificant, and it is open source. That's one more thing TiVo could implement with essentially zero development costs.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MeStinkBAD said:


> Ummm... you'd end up with just one recording though. It would consist of two shows but you'd have to fast forward to the end of the first recording to get to the start of the second.
> 
> And yes it's all digital data. Compressed digital data. And the thing is with compressed video, the first frame has to be what is known as an I frame or Key Frame. Basically it's a self contained image. Frames before and after that are P or progressive frames. These rely on the frames or images that came before it in order to construct an image. So you always have to start with an I frame.
> 
> With analog TV the TiVo encoded the Video. So this wasn't an issue. But with digital TV, the encoding is done somewhere outside your home... and with sometimes as much as 5 to 10 seconds between I frames you may end up with a blank screen for the first few seconds of a show. Hence it's a lose-lose scenario.


So S1 and S2 TiVos could have done it, but TiVo didn't bother to write the software that way?

I sometimes get the impression that no one at TiVo had any experience actually watching network and cable TV.

If they had, there'd be a special button on the remote specifically for dealing with the "60 Minutes" on the East Coast on Sundays when there's golf or football first problem.

Or maybe the problem is none of them had any experience with watching TV in the Eastern time zone.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

mr.unnatural said:


> This would be a completely useless feature (except for the original air date, which is displayed in WMC for every recording), unless you like seeing shows out of sequence. Episodes of TV shows are not always aired in sequence by episode number. Check out any given TV show listing at epguides.com and you'll see what I mean. They list each episode of every show by the date they originally aired. The episode numbers tend to be all over the place.


Yeah, but think how great it would have been if everyone had watched "Firefly" in the proper order instead of the braindead Fox executive designated order.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I ndon't use the MS time servers. I use the federal government ones.


At my house I use three Debian pool servers, one NIST server, and 3 university servers, plus both Linux servers broadcast on the local LAN. At work we maintain a couple of dozen GPS based Stratum I servers across the country.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MeStinkBAD said:


> And yes it's all digital data. Compressed digital data. And the thing is with compressed video, the first frame has to be what is known as an I frame or Key Frame. Basically it's a self contained image. Frames before and after that are P or progressive frames. These rely on the frames or images that came before it in order to construct an image. So you always have to start with an I frame.


I'm afraid not. You are correct the I frame is basically an entire image, but the rest of the frames are not P frames. Most are B frames. P frames are essentially a simple differential from the previous frame. A B frame, on the other hand, is created based upon differentials from both the previous and following frame. A stream of B frames is generally more compressible than a string of P frames, plus when rewinding, decoding B frames is faster and smoother than decoding P frames. The calculations required to produce a B frame, however, are more in-depth, than a P frame, and some transitions do not readily yield B frames without lots of calculations. Pulling up a fairly typical MPEG2 video (Air Force One), I'm looking at about 2 B frames for every P frame.



MeStinkBAD said:


> But with digital TV, the encoding is done somewhere outside your home... and with sometimes as much as 5 to 10 seconds between I frames you may end up with a blank screen for the first few seconds of a show. Hence it's a lose-lose scenario.


That would be pretty unusual. The DVD spec calls for a GOP to be no more than 18 frames, total. MPEG2 in general does not require this, but few sources will attempt to cram much more than 2 - 3 seconds worth of frames into a GOP.



MeStinkBAD said:


> you may end up with a blank screen for the first few seconds of a show. Hence it's a lose-lose scenario.


Not at all. First of all, it is trivial to duplicate a single GOP to be shared by both videos. Secondly, even if one wishes to split the videos precisely on a single frame, re-creating an I-Frame at the new GOP boundary is not a hugely CPU consuming procedure. I suspect the TiVo may already do something like that when starting a new video.


----------



## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

How about making some of the consistence soft?
like:
buffer length, 
Skip forward
skip back
30 second skip
FF exit reverse amount

There are times I would like to be able to skip 6 seconds forward. How about when your are FF the skip back is a little more than I like. I do try to wait so when it skips back I do not FF to get to the show. 

Non trivial: Good revers slow motion. How did the ball get there. My first VCR did slow motion revers better than anything else I have seen. 

cooperative recording and cooperative now playing. Just team work between all the Tivos on the network.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

unitron said:


> On my S1s and S2s, if what's in the buffer is the last 29 minutes of the previous show and the first minute of the currently scheduled one, hitting record causes it to start the recording and reset the beginning of the buffer to one minute ago.
> 
> In other words, if I want to see that 29 minutes I have to "rewind" and watch before hitting record or it gets flushed.


Oh my, I HATE IT when this happens! I see something I am interested in, I hit record to preserve it, and then it does the exact opposite -- it gets rid of the buffer! It doesn't happen all that often but when it does, I get very annoyed with TiVo. This should be handled much more intelligently.


----------



## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

unitron said:


> I sometimes get the impression that no one at TiVo had any experience actually watching network and cable TV.


This is a depressing thread. I'm reading all of these basic user interface/experience issues that I'd have expected to see in TiVo's OS like 5 years ago. The fact of the matter is, there's been so little in terms of enhancement or development for us to really see. The OS is stagnant.

And the add-ons are just languishing, broken and unsupported. The YouTube app can't even handle our playlists properly. This is a bug that's been reported for 2 years now and TiVo just can't/hasn't fixed it. Sure, a new YouTube app might be coming down the pike. Maybe, maybe not.

I get the impression that all of TiVo's engineers left long ago, and no one knows how (or wants) to touch the code for fear of breaking something. I have this picture of empty offices with a few suits here and there, maybe a handful of misguided interns but no one actually employed and capable of improving the actual TiVo OS. Everything (aside from the iPad app, developed externally AFAIK) seems to be on life support, waiting for the plug to be pulled.

And so it's sad to read the wishes in here because I can't help but shake the sneaking suspicion that we'll never see any of them realized.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Fofer said:


> Well, I'd say the episode numbering scheme is intended by the show's creators as the order in which the show was meant to be viewed, wouldn't you? Why else would they number them that way?


It does seem logical that they would air this way, but the fact remains that not all shows air in the same sequence as their episode number. The episode numbering scheme is nothing more than a sequence in which each episode was produced. For shows that have an ongoing storyline, such as the type you described, they generally do air in this order. Shows like The Simpsons are produced independently of one another and the air date probably depends more on when the episode is ready to be aired rather than some numbering sequence they use to identify each show.



Fofer said:


> mr.unnatural, you should do this too. Then maybe you won't need 12 tuners in your Windows HTPC to make up for your clock "drift."


The 12 tuners are not there to make up for any clock drift but rather to avoid any possible conflicts between recordings. I had intended to set up the additional Ceton tuners for sharing with other PCs to be available to other TVs in my house. I just haven't gotten around to setting up the additional PCs for this function yet. I think the most shows I've recorded simultaneously via my season passes in WMC has been about 6. The overlap is intended to compensate for any program guide glitches that haven't been updated prior to recording any given program.

Based on what I've been reading here, I do intend to look into a clock synchronization app for my HTPC. I'm not so much concerned about the clock drifting and hosing up any recordings. I just want the actual time to be displayed on my TV. Any time I hit the PLAY button on my remote the time is displayed in the upper right hand corner of my TV while in Media Center.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

unitron said:


> On my S1s and S2s, if what's in the buffer is the last 29 minutes of the previous show and the first minute of the currently scheduled one, hitting record causes it to start the recording and reset the beginning of the buffer to one minute ago.
> 
> In other words, if I want to see that 29 minutes I have to "rewind" and watch before hitting record or it gets flushed.


it actually keeps the buffer to the beginning of the "chunk" that happens to contain the actual beginning of the show. It flushes the other chunks but not the the partial chunk in front of the start time. It's possible that is exactly at the beginning of the show but more likely it's several minutes before the beginning of the show.

Others here more knowledgeable can explain the tivo file system and its implications (it's mostly over my head) but basically Tivo records in chunks (length of time of the chunk depends on bitrate and the like) - and the start time of the chunks in the buffer start at seemingly random times since the duration of each chunk if variable. The tivo apparently has no way to cut off the extra part of the chunk it doesn't need when you start an unplanned recording from the buffer. So it marks the beginning of the recording and starts from there when you play it from the NPL but if you rewind you can see the rest of the chunk.

Bottom line they can mark the start time in a file that starts before the start time and the UI starts playback from there.

***disclaimer- unless things have changed. I believe i first discovered on my S2's but may have been as early as S1's


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> it actually keeps the buffer to the beginning of the "chunk" that happens to contain the actual beginning of the show. It flushes the other chunks but not the the partial chunk in front of the start time. It's possible that is exactly at the beginning of the show but more likely it's several minutes before the beginning of the show.
> 
> Others here more knowledgeable can explain the tivo file system and its implications (it's mostly over my head) but basically Tivo records in chunks (length of time of the chunk depends on bitrate and the like) - and the start time of the chunks in the buffer start at seemingly random times since the duration of each chunk if variable. The tivo apparently has no way to cut off the extra part of the chunk it doesn't need when you start an unplanned recording from the buffer. So it marks the beginning of the recording and starts from there when you play it from the NPL but if you rewind you can see the rest of the chunk.
> 
> ...


The problem isn't that the TiVo records in chunks, the problem is that it records in "shows". If you've got 29 minutes of show A in the buffer and the first minute of show B in the buffer and hit record, even if you rewind to the beginning of the buffer, the TiVo compares the channel setting to the time and program guide and, as far as it is concerned, show A is over and the record command applies to show B.

It doesn't know how to record in the past, even though via the buffer it does exactly that.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

the file system doesn't record an entire half hour show in one piece. It's made up of chunks (or some similar term).

In fact the buffer is more than 30 minutes most of the time- even though tivo never allows us to see more than 30. Say each chunk is 5 minutes (made up numbers- the more technical peopel can explain better what more realistic sizes are). Say the box finished a recording at 7:00 and it starts a new buffer and starts a new chunk. another new chunk at 7:05, 7:10, 7:15, 7:30. at 7:32 the buffer will pretend it only goes back to 7:02- the reality is it still has that chunk going back to 7:00. If the show in the buffer was 7:00 to 8:00 if you hit the record at 7:32 it actually would start the program at 7:00 and you hit the jackpot and get your whole show (even though if you try to rewinf the buffer it would not let you go earlier than 7:02).

You're complaint is the UI is stupid and if you hit record at 7:32 (regardless of where in the buffer you are) and the guide has shows from 7:00 to 7:30 and 7:30 to 8:00 it assume you want the 7:30 show. Lots of people complain about that- it's enough to make you want to throw the box away when it happens. A work around for this is apparently to quickly go set up a manually recording on that channel from 7:00 to 7:30 and the tivo will figure out what chunks in the buffer you need in order to make up that show (I *think* it also actually labels it correctly that way in NPL but I'm not certain) http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=429331

So would your simple feature be when you hit record in the buffer it asks which show you want? I'd vote for that one too.

The point I was trying to make originally is that what the UI does and what the file system do are already 2 different things and tivo already knows how to handle that. So Doesn't matter what the file system is doing - somehow it marks the beginning of shows and uses that for when you pick to play a show from the now playing list. So tivo could do all sorts of soft padding or duplicating some overlap from 2 different shows on the same channel, and for the most part the UI would already be able to handle it.


----------

