# Does FIOS use Multistream Cable cards?



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm going to get FIOS TV tomorrow and plan on getting it initially installed in both my TiVoHD boxes. Does Fios use multistream cards yet or are they still using single stream? Once I leave Comcast in December, I'll need 10 cable cards if they use single stream.


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## chazas (Jan 18, 2007)

So far, only S Cards (single stream). From what I have read you will be limited to 7 cablecards on Fios, so research this carefully before you jump ship.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

chazas said:


> So far, only S Cards (single stream). From what I have read you will be limited to 7 cablecards on Fios, so research this carefully before you jump ship.


That is true.

The reason for that limit is that MoCA (100Mbps over Coax) and the Actiontec router -- by which you get guide data and VOD on the Motorola STBs -- only allows connectivity to seven FiOS STBs and DVRs at once. Because of that, FiOS setup their order system to limit each customer account to seven STBs and DVRs. CableCards should not count against that limit, but they do with the current Verizon account / billing software.

They are working to eliminate that limit, but that probably won't happen until next year.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I won't think about my Series 3 boxes until my year is up with Comcast in December. SO hopefully by then they will increase the limit or even better have multistream cards. They definitely charge too much for the cable cards. I pay Comcast zero for 6 cable cards and 4 cards from FIOS will cost me $12.


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## JANNINO (Oct 28, 2004)

BKDTV - I'm on the phone right with Verizon and I'm having the same problem. I want to install 4 HDTivos and one Verizon DVR and while Verizon tech tells me this is not a problem the Verizon billing is telling me no more than 7 cable cards allowed. What a joke this is. Is there any way around this problem or do I have to use one of my HD Tivos with only one cable card until Verizon ends this articifial limit or they come out with M cards??


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

I just don't understand the need for more than two HD Tivo's in the house. I know, I know, other people have different needs, but do people really need four HD Tivos? I only have two so i do not have to compete/share with my kids. I get the S3, they get the THD. Four tuners, 250gb + 160 gb is enough for me. YMMV.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rmassey said:


> I just don't understand the need for more than two HD Tivo's in the house. I know, I know, other people have different needs, but do people really need four HD Tivos? I only have two so i do not have to compete/share with my kids. I get the S3, they get the THD. Four tuners, 250gb + 160 gb is enough for me. YMMV.


Do we really NEED an HDTV, a 7.1 sound system, any TiVo etc. ?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

rmassey said:


> I just don't understand the need for more than two HD Tivo's in the house. I know, I know, other people have different needs, but do people really need four HD Tivos? I only have two so i do not have to compete/share with my kids. I get the S3, they get the THD. Four tuners, 250gb + 160 gb is enough for me. YMMV.


Many people use them to replace the set top box. Since the S3/THD can tune digital channels, a lot of people use them on each TV they own.


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Do we really NEED an HDTV, a 7.1 sound system, any TiVo etc. ?


Certainly not in every room of the house


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## JANNINO (Oct 28, 2004)

We have 5 TVs in the house. The plan was to have one Verizon DVR (for the kids downstairs) and 4 HD Tivo units. The reason for 4 HD Tivos is the wife records everything and likes to have it available all over the house and she's not one to download shows into different units.

Verizon's 7 device limitation is an artificially induced limit and not a physical limit on their system as an ONT can handle 7 outputs. Have you every hear of a business limiting itself on how much of their own product they will sell??

I am now looking into Cablevision's IO service here in northern NJ and Verizon may have lost a paying customer do to their riduculous business practices. It is really unfortunate as a simple limitation on their billing software will ultimately cost them business.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

I was just told by the Verizon Fios rep (after she called a tech guy) that they do have M-cards now for Fios. I will find out when they install next Wednesday (9/19), but it is possible I can get by with a single card for each of my Tivo HD units. 

Brad


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

I wonder what the payoff time is; truck roll fee/ monthly savings?


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

I am doing the initial install, so it is nothing extra for me. 

I will post here if they are really available after the install date.

Brad


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## JANNINO (Oct 28, 2004)

Andrews777 - Where are you located? I spoke to Verizon here in northern NJ and they said they do not have the M-cards yet. Those M-cards could solve my problem as I have 4 THDs and need 8 S-cards which Verizon Billing says I cannot have.

On another front - I thought I read in some other posts that the new fix that went out last week which fixed the problems on the SA cable cards is causing a problem on the M-cards. Anyone else know anything about this??


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## jimvaughan (Oct 3, 2002)

They do not have m-cards in Southern CA, or at least didn't last week.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

JANNINO said:


> Andrews777 - Where are you located? I spoke to Verizon here in northern NJ and they said they do not have the M-cards yet. Those M-cards could solve my problem as I have 4 THDs and need 8 S-cards which Verizon Billing says I cannot have.
> 
> On another front - I thought I read in some other posts that the new fix that went out last week which fixed the problems on the SA cable cards is causing a problem on the M-cards. Anyone else know anything about this??


Im in northern NJ as well and i just ordered 3 fios cards for this saturday install. they transfered me to a tech because the customer service idiot didnt understan what an mcard is. anyway, the tech said (they are out of paramus) that they do not have mcards.


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## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

Did any of you end up getting an M-Card from FIOS?
I'm in Tampa FL, and I just called. The lady didn't know what it was, so I asked her to find someone who did -- obviously I didn't say it like that -- then she came back and said it wouldn't be a problem. I'm setup for Monday between 8-10am. We'll see what the guy actually brings.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

That is the way it went with my rep, although I won't know until Wednesday. I wish I could get it setup earlier. 

Brad


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## blhirsch (Mar 1, 2003)

I'm hopeful I might get one. Because of an equipment malfunction, the installers couldn't get my FIOS tv up and running on Wednesday. When he asked me if there was anything he could do, I said, "yes, in the meantime, go back and see if you can't rustle me up an m-card to make up for it." He laughed and said he'd definitely see if he couldn't do just that.

At least he knew what I was talking about. We'll see when they come back. I don't think it's going to be today, but hopefully Monday.

Edited to add: just called. Still some kind of malfunction. He's going to call me on my cell today and give me a status update.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I was told that here in Northern VA they don't have any multistream cards. I just hope they get them by December when I switch my remaining boxes from Comcast to FIOS.


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## Hannibal1209b (Dec 10, 2003)

I just had my HD cards installed today and asked about multistream cards. The tech said that they only have them in Texas right now.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

Hannibal1209b said:


> I just had my HD cards installed today and asked about multistream cards. The tech said that they only have them in Texas right now.


Woo Hoo! That means I may really get them. If they charge the same amount per month, I will save $6 per month! Good deal!

Brad


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> That is true.
> 
> The reason for that limit is that MoCA (100Mbps over Coax) and the Actiontec router -- by which you get guide data and VOD on the Motorola STBs -- only allows connectivity to seven FiOS STBs and DVRs at once. Because of that, FiOS setup their order system to limit each customer account to seven STBs and DVRs. CableCards should not count against that limit, but they do with the current Verizon account / billing software.
> 
> They are working to eliminate that limit, but that probably won't happen until next year.


Sorry, but wrong. It's simply an ordering system limitation. There is no technical limit. However FIOS TV will make it very difficult. I spent hours getting this resolved for my house.

I currently have 9 total devices in my house (6 CC's and 3 STB's). It took me a while to get Verizon to make this happen, but they worked around the ordering system limitation (I had 7 devices before, and needed +2 CC's, so I said I was cancelling a STP and adding a CC, and then had the guy install 2 CC's and left the STB alone when he showed up).

The activation system has no apparent limitation.


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

I just ran into this problem. I called them to come pick up their 3 HD dvr's and hook up my 3 new Tivo-HD's (I already had an exiting Tivo-HD with 2 CC's hooked up.) That would make 8 cable cards, they absolutely refused saying the system has a technical limit of 7.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Sorry, but wrong. It's simply an ordering system limitation. There is no technical limit. However FIOS TV will make it very difficult. I spent hours getting this resolved for my house.
> 
> I currently have 9 total devices in my house (6 CC's and 3 STB's). It took me a while to get Verizon to make this happen, but they worked around the ordering system limitation (I had 7 devices before, and needed +2 CC's, so I said I was cancelling a STP and adding a CC, and then had the guy install 2 CC's and left the STB alone when he showed up).
> 
> The activation system has no apparent limitation.


Did you read my post?

That's just about exactly what I said, paraphrased from Verizon.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> Did you read my post?
> 
> That's just about exactly what I said, paraphrased from Verizon.


Not really, your post would leave readers thinking they can't get more than 7 devices in their house. Which simply isn't true.

You need to push past the ordering system people, and you can get as many devices as you want.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

edrock200 said:


> I just ran into this problem. I called them to come pick up their 3 HD dvr's and hook up my 3 new Tivo-HD's (I already had an exiting Tivo-HD with 2 CC's hooked up.) That would make 8 cable cards, they absolutely refused saying the system has a technical limit of 7.


Push past the ordering people. You can get this done, no problem (or rather, with problems, but you can still get it done).

Just keep escalating.


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

I tried, spoke with technical dept, managers, etc. Not only were they not helpful, the manager gave me attitude and told me I would have to buy a second account or just quit FiOS. It was my first bad experience with FiOS. I may just get an installer to come out and see if I can convince him to activate more CC's. The installers always seem really cool.


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

AbMagFab,
Are you in the NoVA area? I just tried calling again, and once again got the runaround. Anyone have any email addresses or mail addresses for higher ups at Verizon FiOS? Either way, I ordered 4 cable cards and will try to talk the technician into letting me have 2 more. If not, does anyone know if Tivo HD will work in a "single tuner" mode?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

edrock200 said:


> AbMagFab,
> Are you in the NoVA area? I just tried calling again, and once again got the runaround. Anyone have any email addresses or mail addresses for higher ups at Verizon FiOS? Either way, I ordered 4 cable cards and will try to talk the technician into letting me have 2 more. If not, does anyone know if Tivo HD will work in a "single tuner" mode?


Yes it works in single tuner mode. For the last week I used one of my TiVoHD boxes in single tuner mode. The CC in slot one went bad after the installer left last week so I just pulled it out and was able to just use the CC in slot 2 in single tuner mode. They replaced the bad CC card today and I was able to put in back in 2 tuner mode. I asked the tech about the Multistream cards and he said alll they have are SS cards. He said he would try to find out if anyone knew when they might be getting the multistream cards.

I have 4 CC cards(and one FIOS STB) with them and they had no problem giving me two more if I wanted. I should have done it but didn't want to mess with my S3 in the bedroom since it's a pain to take it out of the TV stand. This is where the slot sin the front really come in handy with the TiVoHD.


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## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

The guy came today, no M-Card. I told him not to bother installing it. I really want to escalate this as far as I can before settling on a S-Card.


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## Rebate_King (Nov 10, 2004)

wasn't there a date that passed like 2 months ago that said all cable operators had to start offering Multi stream cards?


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## JANNINO (Oct 28, 2004)

Regarding the 7 device limitation:

I called Verizon again and told them that if they would not give me the 8 cablecards and 1 DVR needed that I wanted to cancel my order and go with Cablevision of NJ who I called and set up an installation date with (Cablevision has no problem giving you what you want....which makes good business sense). I then asked to speak to an escalation agent. They actually transferred me to a Cancelation Department which they siad had more authority to handle this situation. 

Bottom line: After the Billing/Cancelation department confirmed with their tech "guru" that my setup was indeed physically possible (which it is), they agreed to give me what I want. 

My installation is set up for this Thursday. Now I just need to clear that hurdle and then finally any Tivo related issues before FINALLY enjoying HDTV which I currently do not do with Directv.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

I just got Fios installed and hooked up. What Fios calls "M Cards" are Motorola cards, not multi-stream cards. 

I have 4 "M-Cards" (their terms - Motorola cards) to get all my channels. $6 more per month that if they had real M-cards, but they work great after the installers got the right numbers put in the system.

It does take some setup time.

The installers said they had very few cable card/Tivo installs.

Brad


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

AbMagFab: I tried escelating again in which they insisted that I need a second ONT installed which would mean I would have to pay for a second premium package. Anyway, I tried what you did and just scheduled an install of 4 cable cards. The tech came out, told him I wanted 6, he activated all 6 no questions asked. Sweet.

bdraw: In this area they just started rolling out M-cards. I wouldn't hold my breath that the techs nor phone crew will know how to specify them until late dec/early jan. I personally have gone with S-cards and will request an upgrade to M-cards once the system has ironed out the issues.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

The tech I talked with thought the Motorola Cards were "M-cards" as he thought the brand name was the letter, not the transmission mode. I suppose I will have to keep an ear on things. I am glad I got them to bring out 4 when I setup the install. I would hate to be missing a tuner. 

Brad


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## ace1014 (Sep 22, 2007)

Hello All, 
I am currently in Iraq and I have been having a heck of a time trying to walk my girlfried in Tampa through trying to set up our first Tivo. We have FIOS, and we had the FIOS DVR, but read that you could record two shows at once with Tivo and also transfer files straight to the computer, which would make it a lot easier for her to burn the shows and send them to me. All that being said, she finally got it hooked up and now we can't record two shows at once, and you can't even record one show and watch something else (something she said she could do with the FIOS Dvr). She called Verizon and they told her that it wasn't possible due to all the channels being digital and there not being any analog signals. Is this true? Will these Cable Cards that you are talking about help me, and if so, why didn't Verizon tell my girlfriend about it? I would certainly appreciate any help you all might be able to offer.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

ace1014 said:


> Hello All,
> I am currently in Iraq and I have been having a heck of a time trying to walk my girlfried in Tampa through trying to set up our first Tivo. We have FIOS, and we had the FIOS DVR, but read that you could record two shows at once with Tivo and also transfer files straight to the computer, which would make it a lot easier for her to burn the shows and send them to me. All that being said, she finally got it hooked up and now we can't record two shows at once, and you can't even record one show and watch something else (something she said she could do with the FIOS Dvr). She called Verizon and they told her that it wasn't possible due to all the channels being digital and there not being any analog signals. Is this true? Will these Cable Cards that you are talking about help me, and if so, why didn't Verizon tell my girlfriend about it? I would certainly appreciate any help you all might be able to offer.


Hard to do this remotely, I imagine. And the FIOS tech gave you/her bad information, so just ignore him.

Here's some quick info, which you can get more on through some searches:

1) FIOS is mostly digital, with only locals in analog (the channels below 50).

2) The only way to get digital channels through Tivo is with CC's, so you can't get anything other than locals on the Tivo without installing CC's (with guide data, which is all that matters)

3) You can record two things at once without CC's, but only the analog channels (below 50)

4) Alternatively, you can get two CC's (you need 2 since FIOS uses only single-stream cards) and then you can record two of anything, including HD channels

The only way you get stuck recording one thing at a time is with one CC installed, which it doesn't sound like is your case. Unless your GF is somewhat technical/handy with CES devices, I doubt she can determine that two things are being recorded at once?

In any case, I'd suggest you get two CC's installed so you have access to all the channels. However this usually requires hand-holding of the tech's when they come by, and watching the Tivo for a specific set of messages (documented in this forum). Again, unless your GF is a little tech savvy, this could be difficult for her.

Hope this helps?


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

ace1014 said:


> Hello All,
> I am currently in Iraq and I have been having a heck of a time trying to walk my girlfried in Tampa through trying to set up our first Tivo. We have FIOS, and we had the FIOS DVR, but read that you could record two shows at once with Tivo and also transfer files straight to the computer, which would make it a lot easier for her to burn the shows and send them to me. All that being said, she finally got it hooked up and now we can't record two shows at once, and you can't even record one show and watch something else (something she said she could do with the FIOS Dvr). She called Verizon and they told her that it wasn't possible due to all the channels being digital and there not being any analog signals. Is this true? Will these Cable Cards that you are talking about help me, and if so, why didn't Verizon tell my girlfriend about it? I would certainly appreciate any help you all might be able to offer.


If you have a THD or a S3 then you won't be able to transfer shows to the PC until the Nov update (there is a post from TiVoPony about TTG and MRV being ready in Nov). Without CableCARDs you should be able to record two analog shows, but likely you are used to and expecting the full digital lineup. With FiOS, CableCARDs are almost a necessity.

BTW, thanks for serving!


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

JANNINO said:


> We have 5 TVs in the house. The plan was to have one Verizon DVR (for the kids downstairs) and 4 HD Tivo units. The reason for 4 HD Tivos is the wife records everything and likes to have it available all over the house and she's not one to download shows into different units.
> 
> Verizon's 7 device limitation is an artificially induced limit and not a physical limit on their system as an ONT can handle 7 outputs. Have you every hear of a business limiting itself on how much of their own product they will sell??
> 
> I am now looking into Cablevision's IO service here in northern NJ and Verizon may have lost a paying customer do to their riduculous business practices. It is really unfortunate as a simple limitation on their billing software will ultimately cost them business.


 It's not a ridiculous billing practice but more of not wanting to deal with bandwidth limitations. Have you and a couple of your neighbors each with 7 stbs and all of them trying to watch vod at the same time. Quite a few of those stbs are going to be sol. If you look at the firmware in the actiontec it is set up to assign ip's for the stbs in the 100 to 150 range, so the actiontec is not the issue. There is a guy in Southlake, TX that has 3 onts and 21 stbs. His billing is tricky because the second 2 ont's are set up as sub locations and he gets 'billed' for 3 different services but some one has to manually go and place credit on his account. A regular customer cannot ask for something like that but this guy has his name on a law firm building near downtown Dallas and knows somebody.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

mamosley said:


> It's not a ridiculous billing practice but more of not wanting to deal with bandwidth limitations. Have you and a couple of your neighbors each with 7 stbs and all of them trying to watch vod at the same time. Quite a few of those stbs are going to be sol. If you look at the firmware in the actiontec it is set up to assign ip's for the stbs in the 100 to 150 range, so the actiontec is not the issue. There is a guy in Southlake, TX that has 3 onts and 21 stbs. His billing is tricky because the second 2 ont's are set up as sub locations and he gets 'billed' for 3 different services but some one has to manually go and place credit on his account. A regular customer cannot ask for something like that but this guy has his name on a law firm building near downtown Dallas and knows somebody.


Fine, then limit STB's. But don't limit CC's, especially in devices that don't do VOD.

It *is* a rediculous practice to limit it, with no easy way around it for situations that don't effect anything technically.


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

mamosley said:


> It's not a ridiculous billing practice but more of not wanting to deal with bandwidth limitations. Have you and a couple of your neighbors each with 7 stbs and all of them trying to watch vod at the same time. Quite a few of those stbs are going to be sol. If you look at the firmware in the actiontec it is set up to assign ip's for the stbs in the 100 to 150 range, so the actiontec is not the issue. There is a guy in Southlake, TX that has 3 onts and 21 stbs. His billing is tricky because the second 2 ont's are set up as sub locations and he gets 'billed' for 3 different services but some one has to manually go and place credit on his account. A regular customer cannot ask for something like that but this guy has his name on a law firm building near downtown Dallas and knows somebody.


As AbMagFab stated, CC's dont affect bandwidth on the system. In addition, if they do have FiOS STB's, they could easily set a limit of no more than 3 VOD streams at once per ONT or whatever the system can handle. To set a hard limit of 7 with no workarounds is rediculous. To further complicate the matter, the help line just spreads false info about it being a technical limit and that a second ONT is needed. I just had the installer put in the extra cards for me, no "extra ONT' needed.


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## mamosley (Apr 9, 2003)

edrock200 said:


> As AbMagFab stated, CC's dont affect bandwidth on the system. In addition, if they do have FiOS STB's, they could easily set a limit of no more than 3 VOD streams at once per ONT or whatever the system can handle. To set a hard limit of 7 with no workarounds is rediculous. To further complicate the matter, the help line just spreads false info about it being a technical limit and that a second ONT is needed. I just had the installer put in the extra cards for me, no "extra ONT' needed.


It's not the ont's rather the olt's and bandwidth in the c.o. from shelf to shelf. As far as verizon having the common since to realize having more than 7 cable cards is not the same as having more than 7 stbs AND train their ALL their people on what a cable card is much less a multi stream cable card, well.... uhm.... yeah. Imagine a communication company communicating. It's all give and take though. Even though many believe the customers always right, there are some customers with some un-reasonable expectations and demands most of which can be deterred with the proper understanding that for the most part you are doing business with a for profit entity with cookie cutter products, and pretty much any employee or representative of said company that you or I will be able to come in some kind of direct contact with do have rules and policies they have to follow in order to continue their employment and feed their family. I don't know about you, but a better analogy I have is I have gotten better suits from the local haberdashery than at the chain retailer. Yeah I paid more for the suits, sure I couldnt get by the shop after work or on the weekends but I am happier with the quality of the suits and like the fact that I can go back and do business with the same individuals as opposed to establishing rapport with a different employee every time.


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

I see your point, however I think this is a simple fix for verizon. A software update to their billing system to exempt cable cards from the device count, plus a memo to csr's. Yes, the CSRs will be slow to pick up the new standard as with any massive change to a utility companies policies, but they will eventually pick it up.

Overall I'm happy with FiOS, and was extremely surprised at the knowlege of the installers. It is the call centers and billing system that still need a bit of tweaking. Training on M-Cards and S-Cards for example. Granted, Joe-user probably won't be asking for M-Cards specifically, but how great would it be if the CSR new an M-Card would be more efficient for Joe-user when hes using a Tivo HD?


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

bkdtv said:


> That is true.
> 
> The reason for that limit is that MoCA (100Mbps over Coax) and the Actiontec router -- by which you get guide data and VOD on the Motorola STBs -- ...


The guide data is supplied to the STBs by the Actiontec router?


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

DCIFRTHS said:


> The guide data is supplied to the STBs by the Actiontec router?


Yes, as well as the VOD. Thats why you get the router even if you don't get internet service from FiOS. I learned this the hard way when I changed several settings on my router including DHCP.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

ace1014: You don't say what kind of Tivo you have. CableCards only apply to the Series 3 or Tivo HD; they don't work with Series 2.


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> ace1014: You don't say what kind of Tivo you have. CableCards only apply to the Series 3 or Tivo HD; they don't work with Series 2.


I thought series 2 DT take cable cards, no?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

No.


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## ace1014 (Sep 22, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> ace1014: You don't say what kind of Tivo you have. CableCards only apply to the Series 3 or Tivo HD; they don't work with Series 2.


I have a Series 2 DT. So, I guess the answer is no, Cable Cards won't help me out. Right?


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> 1) FIOS is mostly digital, with only locals in analog (the channels below 50).


I have a question about this. Before the CCs are put in, the locals would be in SD? To get them in HD you would have to have the CCs? So until they come in and install the CCs there would be no HD at all? Or can I maybe put on an antenna to get the OTA signal?


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## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

You can watch OTA HD until the CableCARDs are installed. But cable HD channels won't be available without the CC, unless TiVo starts support clear qam.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

eddyj said:


> I have a question about this. Before the CCs are put in, the locals would be in SD? To get them in HD you would have to have the CCs? So until they come in and install the CCs there would be no HD at all? Or can I maybe put on an antenna to get the OTA signal?


Before the CCs are put in, you will get locals in analog. FiOS has locals available in analog but not much else.

The digital SD and HD locals are unencrypted, but they won't be on the appropriate channels numbers, nor will they have guide information...until a CableCard is installed.

Of course, you can always mount an off-air antenna for OTA HD reception while you wait for your CCs to be installed. You will get guide information on OTA channels.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Before the CCs are put in, you will get locals in analog. FiOS has locals available in analog but not much else.
> 
> The digital SD and HD locals are unencrypted, but they won't be on the appropriate channels numbers, nor will they have guide information...until a CableCard is installed.
> 
> Of course, you can always mount an off-air antenna for OTA HD reception while you wait for your CCs to be installed. You will get guide information on OTA channels.


Thanks, this matches what I thought, but I was not sure.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

ace1014 said:


> I have a Series 2 DT. So, I guess the answer is no, Cable Cards won't help me out. Right?


Right. The 2 DT has no ability to use CableCards.

With Fios and a 2 DT, you can do asymmetrical dual tuning. You also need a Fios set-top box; you hook that up via composite/s-video, and on one of the Tivo's tuners, you can get all channels, via the STB. For the other tuner, you hook up the RF cable directly to the Tivo. That tuner can pick up only channels 2-49.

Alternatively, you could try using FireWire on a Verizon DVR to extract programs.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

edrock200 said:


> Yes, as well as the VOD. Thats why you get the router even if you don't get internet service from FiOS. I learned this the hard way when I changed several settings on my router including DHCP.


My friend recently had a FiOS install. Good thing all I changed was the wireless security settings...


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## ace1014 (Sep 22, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> Right. The 2 DT has no ability to use CableCards.
> 
> With Fios and a 2 DT, you can do asymmetrical dual tuning. You also need a Fios set-top box; you hook that up via composite/s-video, and on one of the Tivo's tuners, you can get all channels, via the STB. For the other tuner, you hook up the RF cable directly to the Tivo. That tuner can pick up only channels 2-49.
> 
> Alternatively, you could try using FireWire on a Verizon DVR to extract programs.


Thanks a lot for all the help. To hook the RF cable up to both the STB and the Tivo, you will have to use the RF splitter first, correct. I had my GF call Verizon, and they told her that the splitter will mess up the picture. I am guessing that might not be true, but are there any special settings that you need to change in the Tivo once you set it up for the dual tuning. I know these are basic questions, but I am trying to walk someone through it from 4,000 miles away, and I want to have all the information.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

I had asked the Verizon tech if I could add my own splitter for other outlets later and he said something about needing a quality splitter. He indicated the ones commercially available were not sufficient and indicated I "might" be able to get one from Verizon or a cable installer (if I recall the last part correctly).

I didn't know these came in different qualities, but he wasn't just selling something they had since they didn't have any to hand out.

Brad


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## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

I finally heard back from Verizon's press relations.


> We will definitely offer the M-card, beginning sometime next year.


To which I asked why; technological or business reasons? And unfortunately they weren't wiling to share this with me.

So yeah, I'm not very impressed with their PR department, but hey at least they responded.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

andrews777 said:


> I had asked the Verizon tech if I could add my own splitter for other outlets later and he said something about needing a quality splitter. He indicated the ones commercially available were not sufficient and indicated I "might" be able to get one from Verizon or a cable installer (if I recall the last part correctly).
> 
> I didn't know these came in different qualities, but he wasn't just selling something they had since they didn't have any to hand out.
> 
> Brad


Nonsense, btw. Use any splitter you want.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

bdraw said:


> To which I asked why; technological or business reasons? And unfortunately they weren't wiling to share this with me.


I don't think there are any technical obstacles. It's most likely "when we run out of S cards".


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

Someone here told me they should wave the install charge, but they would only agree to wave half the charge when my wife argued with them. This may not be the correct thread, but it was a surprise charge on a Verizon install.

Brad


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Mine was waived but it was also part of the deal I got when I signed up.


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## andrews777 (Aug 23, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Mine was waived but it was also part of the deal I got when I signed up.


I probably need to call in since I believed it was part of the deal as well, but they implied (when they came) that it was using "existing wiring" when such was never noted.

At least they only counted two outlets when I really got 3 since 2 were about 6 feet apart on a wall. 

Brad


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## bdraw (Aug 1, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> I don't think there are any technical obstacles. It's most likely "when we run out of S cards".


The reason I think it might be technical is because of Verizon's integrated security waiver. Motorola and SA don't make DVRs with two CableCARD slots so any provider forced to distribute these boxes has to support M-Cards. Verizon has a one year waiver so I'd bet anything they won't upgrade their network to support M-Cards till the waiver expires July 1st 2008.

Perhaps the FCC was successful in getting us better CableCARD support with mandate after all.


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## pcgrrll (Nov 14, 2002)

I got a TiVo HD today and am practically jumping out of my seat, I want this thing setup so bad. I just managed to get through to Verizon after sitting on hold for 45 minutes. The solution centers guy that I spoke tosaid that I only need one card. My response was are you *sure* it's multistream" He said yes but I'm not really confident that it will be. I should have just had them send two in case. Oh, and they are mailing it me so no need to wait for an installer...just snail mail. Sigh.

I can't wait to throw the Motorola DVR out the window.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

People over at DSL Reports are reporting that they are being set up for self-install, but then they'll get a call saying that it's not possible and someone will still have to come to the house to do the CableCARD installation.

Verizon has reported that they will be rolling out M-CARDs next year, so it's certainly possible that they could be testing them where you are, but I'd certainly make sure that the installer knows to bring at least two cards. Ideally, they'd bring several cards, just in case there's a bad one discovered during the installation process.

My installer told me that he thought he had two cards (he actually had four), but that it's not standard inventory for FiOS TV installers. The installer has to request to have CableCARDs on the truck, and the standard practice is to limit installers to have no more than two cards on hand.


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