# The Night Manager Warning



## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

This is supposed to be a great 6 part series and I had this setup as a One Pass. However, now that it is supposed to Start this Tuesday, I was surprised to see it still did not show up!

I found the issue was that I said to only show NEW but the problem is that this series already aired in Europe several months ago. I had to select new and Repeats for it to record!


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Thank You! I didn't catch that, so I was on the wrong path.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Another case where I'm baffled why my HR-34 from D* just won't record something without flagging things manually.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

I do not know why they flagged this as a rerun because it ran in Europe. To the USA it is NEW!


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

MPSAN said:


> I do not know why they flagged this as a rerun because it ran in Europe. To the USA it is NEW!


I never quite got that, either. Doesn't make sense to me.

I'm glad that I subscribed to this alerts forum, a while back, because it has really helped me to not miss some things.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

MPSAN said:


> I do not know why they flagged this as a rerun because it ran in Europe. To the USA it is NEW!


The original air date is in the past.. So it is not new.. The Tivo NEVER EVER EVER has used any human readable new/rerun flag.. it has ALWAYS used the original air date in the program info..

So the way they're working is currently CORRECT, even though it can be annoying.

(There's PLENTY of other things I can complain about being buggy/not working well, etc., but this is a perfectly logical choice based on the data they have..)


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

mattack said:


> The original air date is in the past.. So it is not new.. The Tivo NEVER EVER EVER has used any human readable new/rerun flag.. it has ALWAYS used the original air date in the program info..
> 
> So the way they're working is currently CORRECT, even though it can be annoying.
> 
> (There's PLENTY of other things I can complain about being buggy/not working well, etc., but this is a perfectly logical choice based on the data they have..)


Yes. Although use of the OAD by TiVo is consistent and makes perfect sense, the OAD as furnished by TMS is not consistent. Sometimes it's the air date from the originating country and sometimes it's the first broadcast date in the US.

There is a new/rerun flag in the data provided by Tribune. TiVo uses it for only one thing that I know of, which is to display a "New" lozenge in the guide. It is not used in recording decisions, as you say.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Can you give proof that the 'new' flag is used on the Tivo?

I was under the impression that the new "lozenge" is just handled by exactly the same logic as the new/rerun recording decision.

I'm not at my tivo now, but my only example is Motive, which has this "old OAD" issue, and the two recordings on my Tivo do NOT show new "lozenges" in the iOS app, but e.g. some other recordings do.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

mattack said:


> Can you give proof that the 'new' flag is used on the Tivo?
> 
> I was under the impression that the new "lozenge" is just handled by exactly the same logic as the new/rerun recording decision.
> 
> I'm not at my tivo now, but my only example is Motive, which has this "old OAD" issue, and the two recordings on my Tivo do NOT show new "lozenges" in the iOS app, but e.g. some other recordings do.


Well, this year "Motive" is a repeat of an original broadcast about a month ago in Canada. It shouldn't have the "New" lozenge. Are the ones with "New" from a previous year when it was being broadcast simultaneously?

Look at an episode of a show that is new and has multiple showings within two weeks. An easy way to find such a show is to look through your One Passes for a cable show with upcoming recordings. What I have observed is the "New" lozenge appears on the showings for days that match the OAD but not on subsequent showings; if the showing which displays as new isn't recorded due to a conflict, a later showing not marked new but whose OAD is within 28 days will be recorded by a "new only" One Pass. So the OAD field is used, as you say, but the rules are different for the "New" lozenge and recording for a "new only" One Pass.

There is a "New" flag (actually repeat:false) in the metadata that you can display with kmttg; this flag will be on (that is, repeat:false) only for the very first broadcast and not for subsequent broadcasts on the same day. But it doesn't seem to be used by TiVo for anything that I know of. What I said earlier about this flag being used by TiVo was incorrect.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Single data point, again from my iPhone app. S11 Ep 1 of "American Greed" (something I record but 99% of the time just delete unwatched) has a first aired date of 3/31/16 and I have a 4pm 4/1 recording that still shows a 'NEW' tag on it.

That COULD be an 'off by one' error, but I don't think their actual premiere would have been at 4pm. (I sometimes do View Upcoming even when there aren't actually conflicts, to lessen the amount of recordings in one day, on an almost full tivo.)

and in the 'upcoming' list, s11 ep 7 shows new badge both 4/27 7pm and 4/28 10pm.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

'Wrong. the first and second airings(Walking Dead, Game of Thrones) are both marked "new".


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

"NEW" in the TiVo guide is anything whose OAD is the same as the air date.

And that is not the flag to which he is referring.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

mattyro7878 said:


> Wrong. the first and second airings(Walking Dead, Game of Thrones) are both marked "new".


I see all three broadcasts on 4/24 of "The Red Woman" marked new in my guide, which I would expect since that is the OAD. Broadcasts subsequent to that date do not have the "New" lozenge in my guide.



mattack said:


> Single data point, again from my iPhone app. S11 Ep 1 of "American Greed" (something I record but 99% of the time just delete unwatched) has a first aired date of 3/31/16 and I have a 4pm 4/1 recording that still shows a 'NEW' tag on it.
> 
> That COULD be an 'off by one' error, but I don't think their actual premiere would have been at 4pm. (I sometimes do View Upcoming even when there aren't actually conflicts, to lessen the amount of recordings in one day, on an almost full tivo.)
> 
> and in the 'upcoming' list, s11 ep 7 shows new badge both 4/27 7pm and 4/28 10pm.


My guide shows "American Greed" S11E04 first showing on 4/28 7PM as new, next on 5/5 at 4PM not new. I don't see S11E07 anywhere yet.



lpwcomp said:


> "NEW" in the TiVo guide is anything whose OAD is the same as the air date.


I guess this is TL;DR? In any case, a succinct summary.



lpwcomp said:


> And that is not the flag to which he is referring.


Sorry, the antecedents here are too weak for me to interpret; perhaps you could identify the flag "he" did mean?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Sorry, the antecedents here are too weak for me to interpret; perhaps you could identify the flag "he" did mean?


mattack, in post #10.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> mattack, in post #10.


I remain confused; the word "flag" does not appear in that post, the "tag" he mentions is what I called a lozenge in my posts. That is different from the flag I was talking about in the metadata. Which flag I was under the *mistaken* impression TiVo uses to decide whether to display the "New" lozenge but in fact the OAD seems to be used instead.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> I remain confused; the word "flag" does not appear in that post, the "tag" he mentions is what I called a lozenge in my posts. That is different from the flag I was talking about in the metadata. Which flag I was under the *mistaken* impression TiVo uses to decide whether to display the "New" lozenge but in fact the OAD seems to be used instead.


Yes, my mistake. I was in a hurry. It was your post to which I was actually referring.

At this point, I'm a bit confused myself as to what is going on with the 'NEW" lozenge in the guide. On the one hand, this Friday's "Blue Bloods" has no OAD and is not being scheduled by a New only 1P but is flagged as new both in the guide and in zap2it. On the other hand, "Houdini & Doyle" does have an (old) OAD but is flagged as New in zap2it but not in the TiVo guide, which is the usual behavior.

So maybe, ,if the OAD is missing, it uses the flag for guide display purposes only, but that is pure speculation.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lpwcomp said:


> So maybe, ,if the OAD is missing, it uses the flag for guide display purposes only, but that is pure speculation.


Maybe it thinks Blue Bloods is a movie? More speculation.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Maybe it thinks Blue Bloods is a movie? More speculation.


Doubtful. The TiVo "knows" it is an episode of the series, it just doesn't think it is "New" for scheduling purposes.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ej42137 said:


> I remain confused; the word "flag" does not appear in that post, the "tag" he mentions is what I called a lozenge in my posts. That is different from the flag I was talking about in the metadata. Which flag I was under the *mistaken* impression TiVo uses to decide whether to display the "New" lozenge but in fact the OAD seems to be used instead.


Like I showed, it can show as new for multiple airings on separate days.. I guess I have to find another example to prove it _on_ my Tivo since the iOS app could theoretically be showing me different things.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> Like I showed, it can show as new for multiple airings on separate days.. I guess I have to find another example to prove it _on_ my Tivo since the iOS app could theoretically be showing me different things.


You're confusing "NEW" in the guide with "NEW" in My Shows. Different rules. I never have been able to figure out what the rules for the latter are.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> You're confusing "NEW" in the guide with "NEW" in My Shows. Different rules. I never have been able to figure out what the rules for the latter are.


Do you have an example where the "New" lozenge in My Shows is presented for an episode that wasn't broadcast on the OAD?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Do you have an example where the "New" lozenge in My Shows is presented for an episode that wasn't broadcast on the OAD?


Yes


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Looking at this and another example I currently have, I'm thinking that _maybe_ "My Shows" uses the same criteria as the scheduler. IOW, it's "NEW" if the OAD is within 28 days of the recording date.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

That's what I've been trying to say all along!


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> That's what I've been trying to say all along!


The problem is that we're talking about two different "lozenges". The one in the guide and the one in My Shows.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> Looking at this and another example I currently have, I'm thinking that _maybe_ "My Shows" uses the same criteria as the scheduler. IOW, it's "NEW" if the OAD is within 28 days of the recording date.


I did some checking and I believe you are correct; for already recorded stuff in My Shows it seems to use the rule that caused it to record, the 28 day rule, for the "New" lozenge. For the Guide and other data for upcoming shows, the same day rule is in effect.

Does anyone have an example or an opinion to support a contrary view?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ej42137 said:


> For the Guide and other data for upcoming shows, the same day rule is in effect.
> 
> Does anyone have an example or an opinion to support a contrary view?


Yes, at least in the iOS app, that was my previous example, already given. I have to remember to check on my Tivo..


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> I did some checking and I believe you are correct; for already recorded stuff in My Shows it seems to use the rule that caused it to record, the 28 day rule, for the "New" lozenge. For the Guide and other data for upcoming shows, the same day rule is in effect.
> 
> Does anyone have an example or an opinion to support a contrary view?





mattack said:


> Yes, at least in the iOS app, that was my previous example, already given. I have to remember to check on my Tivo..


Your example is most definitely not a counter example. The same day rule applies to the "NEW"lozenge in the _*guide*_, not to entries in "My Shows", which is the source of your example.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

yes, that's what I mean the guide ON MY TIVO.. Just to *prove* that the iOS app isn't giving me different results than sitting directly at the Tivo..


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> yes, that's what I mean the guide ON MY TIVO.. Just to *prove* that the iOS app isn't giving me different results than sitting directly at the Tivo..


Your initial post on the subject said "recording". A recording is not in the guide.


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