# Show start end time complaint



## Stormydog (Oct 13, 2010)

Can any body tell me why the tv and cable network insist on starting/stopping their shows not according to the supplied tv guide times? A lot of networks delay starting their shows and then run them beyond the stated stop time. My wife yells at me, at Tivo, at Comast, at everybody when we watch a show and the final minute or two are cut off because the tv show end time comes due. She is so mad, she no longer wants to watch a Tivo recorded show because of missing the end. Not every show is like this, but some anticipated shows are.

I know you can extend ending times, but that is impracticle when you record back to back shows on different channels and times. You can not extend stop recording times on every show.

Is there a reason for dumb starting times like 9:03 pm and ending times of 10:05 pm when TV Guide (which Tivo uses) simply states 9-10pm? Is this an attempt to stiffle recording tv shows, wanting you to watch it live? 

It seems hard to get a hold of network support and if you did, I'm sure there would be no response.


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## Riverdome (May 12, 2005)

IMO the reason is to make DVRs appear to be broken and convince customers to stop using DVRs and start watching commercials again.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

This is not under control of the cable company. Sometimes, it is not even the fault of the network but is done by the local affiliate.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

It also keeps you on that channel when the show is over. So if you have to watch until 10:05 to see the end, you may watch whatever is coming on next rather than switch to another channel where you will have missed the first 5 minutes.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

WhiskeyTango said:


> It also keeps you on that channel when the show is over. So if you have to watch until 10:05 to see the end, you may watch whatever is coming on next rather than switch to another channel where you will have missed the first 5 minutes.


This is actually why they do it. The fact that it screws up DVR owners is just a bonus.

Dan


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Stormydog said:


> Is there a reason for dumb starting times like 9:03 pm and ending times of 10:05 pm when TV Guide (which Tivo uses) simply states 9-10pm? Is this an attempt to stiffle recording tv shows, wanting you to watch it live?


BTW, this has been going on for at least a decade.. The one I noticed first doing it repeatedly was 'er'.

Still, I know to add 1 minute end pad to: anything on History, E!, Discovery, and probably a few more that I can't remember at the moment.

I have to SERIOUSLY pad: MTV (mostly for real world & RW-derived reality shows now). Usually 2 minutes pre and 2 minutes post, at the very least.

GameTrailers on Spike comes on at some random time "around" the scheduled time. I think I have a 4 minute pre-pad and a 5 minute post pad. But I am possibly going to just watch this on the web instead since it already conflicts with late night talk shows that I record.

BTW, while not DVR related, one of Turner's channels, I think WGN, always used to start shows at x:05. He stated that it was so that the channel would always have a separate listing in the guide.. fairly clever, if you ask me.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

WGN wasn't one of Turner's channels. It was either TBS or TNT.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

It only screws with DVR owners if the guide doesn't show the offsets - sometimes the guides properly list a show starts a few minutes earlier and later, which TiVo handles well.

It's when stations start to deliberately lie - start a show 5 minutes late, end 5 minutes late consistently that it gets really annoying.

Discovery Channel has gotten a new habit - they start a show on time (e.g., 00 or 30), and it ends on time (also on 00 or 30). They put in maybe a 10 second station ad in-between the show, and the commercials that would've gone between shows are added to the breaks. This almost always guarantees either a shopped beginning or a chopped ending - and any time skew means it's random.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Either Fox or its local affiliate go about a minute over a lot. The local CBS affiliate has the annoying habit of going to the local news at 10:59.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> WGN wasn't one of Turner's channels. It was either TBS or TNT.


Yeah, TBS started this originally. I was working for a cable company back in the late 70s and I believe they were doing it then.


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## ColdnFrosty (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm more curious why TiVo can't automatically update boxes to properly record a show that has been extended 15 min by the Pres' speech.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

You just have to get used to it and pad certain shows. South Park is one that always runs over about 10 seconds and you literally miss the very last line of the show. It's amazing how consistent they are.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

On the other hand, it's just another reason to get your shows via illegal means. You won't have those problems then.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

ColdnFrosty said:


> I'm more curious why TiVo can't automatically update boxes to properly record a show that has been extended 15 min by the Pres' speech.


They can when given the proper amount of lead time.


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## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

appleye1 said:


> Yeah, TBS started this originally. I was working for a cable company back in the late 70s and I believe they were doing it then.


TBS did start shows at :05 and :35 back then, on the theory that first people would check out the network shows and then come to TBS if they couldn't find anything. By the time the show ended, the network would be into their next show and people would be more likely to stay with TBS. However, they did not do this in secret, like network and cable channels today. They announced correct start times and those were published correctly in the paper and TV Guide. I assume they'd have been correct in Tivo listings if those had been available back then.


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## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

ColdnFrosty said:


> I'm more curious why TiVo can't automatically update boxes to properly record a show that has been extended 15 min by the Pres' speech.


I checked Tribune Media's Zap2It listings late in the afternoon to see if I could get the revised schedule. They didn't have an updated schedule either. I guess much of the time, these last-minute changes don't go to Tribune Media or else they don't bother making last minute changes. There also seems to be a lag time between Tribune Media puts something in the schedule online and when it shows up in Tivo (like a day or two). And there's also a lag in something showing up in your on-screen guide (unless you force the box to update).


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

On the other hand, some shows automatically "pad" their shows. I just noticed Breaking Bad runs for one hour and three minutes. Unlike some networks, AMC has respect for it's viewers. They realize that show in particular is only popular because people watched in reruns and DVD's. The fourth season premiere just had it's highest ratings ever. For the most part, this doesn't happen in TV. You would think other networks would learn something.


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## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

The Tivo website lets you look at your "to do" list but not make changes.

Zap2It lets you link their listings to your Tivo account and add recordings from a PC (but not make changes to or cancel existing recordings). You can, however, "add" a recording with additional time at the end for a show you've already scheduled and that will overwrite the originally scheduled recording. Keep in mind, if you have two recordings scheduled in the next time period, one of them will get cancelled for the "new" recording.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I'm pretty sure TiVo has an overlap protection so if shows overlap by 5 minutes or less then TiVo records the higher-priority one (based on Season Pass Manager) for the entire time and clips the lower-priority one. I would think you'd be able to add padding to catch the end of certain shows so it'd clip the beginning of the next show if necessary (usually the "previously on" segment that you wouldn't miss much)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Worf said:


> Discovery Channel has gotten a new habit - they start a show on time (e.g., 00 or 30), and it ends on time (also on 00 or 30). They put in maybe a 10 second station ad in-between the show, and the commercials that would've gone between shows are added to the breaks. This almost always guarantees either a shopped beginning or a chopped ending - and any time skew means it's random.


Huh? That's not a new habit, and I mentioned Discovery in my reply above. They are NOT ending on time. Add 1 minute end pad to Discovery shows, and you'll get the full thing recorded.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

By Discovery, I meant Discovery Canada. They end on time and start on time. Except, they literally end and start on time. The show will start at XX:00:00, and end at XX:29:59, with the next show starting at XX:30:00. (Well, a few seconds either way - they do a 5-10 second "You're watching Discovery Channel" thing in-between). Most stations put 3-4 ads in-between shows. 

I don't know about Discovery US - we don't get that.

Of course, a little skew in time between the station, the cable digital encoders, your TiVo, etc., and it all goes to heck.


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## Stormydog (Oct 13, 2010)

I get the idea now. It is useless to comlain to the networks. I can see clearly now.

My frustration is when I have two shows back to back, different channels. If you accept the later stop time, it cancels the second show. You can pad start and end times, but it is very involved to try and track every show and pad certain ones. Sometimes there is only one showing and have to accept later stop time and next show has other showings that conflict with other shows recordings.

My tv viewing is 99.9% of recorded shows, hardly never watch a live tv show. if I can I will record it and watch something else. I just get aggravated with this which I see is what the networks want. 

Thanks, I needed to get this off my chest and now know a consensus of shared frustation. It is all the more reason to work on solutions and to never watch live tv.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Stormydog said:


> My frustration is when I have two shows back to back, different channels. If you accept the later stop time, it cancels the second show.


There is a feature called "Overlap Protection" that will allow two back to back shows to overlap by up to 5 minutes and still record. If turned on the the higher priority show is recorded completely while the lower priority show is clipped.

My biggest problem with this feature is that it's global, so it's all or nothing. For example if you have a SP for a cable show that repeats constantly, but the first airing overlaps with a padded show, then it will still record the first airing, causing one of the shows to be clipped, rather then rescheduling for a later airing.

I've got entire seasons of shows that were clipped by 1-2 minutes because their first airing was bumped up against a higher priority network show that ran over or was padded. I would have preferred that those shows were simply rescheduled for a later airing instead of being clipped. If you could set it on a per show basis then you could allow clipping on network shows that only air once, but disallow it on cable shows that repeat several times throughout the week and prevent the clipping altogether.

Dan


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

I've also learned to pad movies on TNT by at least one minute at the end.


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## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

Maybe networks have shows NOT start or end on time to mess with DVR users. Maybe they are just sloppy.

For cable shows (Discovery, TNT, USA...) there are multiple showings of the same episode during the week. So if padding creates a conflict (or clipping), just have Tivo record the episode when it runs again three hours later (or the next day). Give cable shows (and PBS shows) lower priority in your Season Pass list. Check your To-Do list occasionally, and look for an asterisk (*) indicating a show is going to be clipped. Then select the show, go to View Future Episodes and select another conflict-free showing to be recorded (when you do this, Tivo also cancels the originally scheduled recording). 

For broadcast networks, which give you just one showing, you can always watch a show online. There is software available to capture (record) an audio/video stream and transfer the file to Tivo. Most HD TV's also have ports so you can plug your PC's video into your TV. 

One thing that would be nice is the ability to record a third or even fourth show. Since I don't need cable cards for the broadcast networks, I would not need to get extra cable cards.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Emacee said:


> Check your To-Do list occasionally, and look for an asterisk (*) indicating a show is going to be clipped. Then select the show, go to View Future Episodes and select another conflict-free showing to be recorded (when you do this, Tivo also cancels the originally scheduled recording).
> 
> For broadcast networks, which give you just one showing, you can always watch a show online. There is software available to capture (record) an audio/video stream and transfer the file to Tivo. Most HD TV's also have ports so you can plug your PC's video into your TV.


 Just turn off overlap protection and prioritize your SPs so that shows that are repeated are lower.

I don't like missing any part of a show. Contrary to what was posted earlier, a lot of shows have teasers at the beginning and/or tags at the end. If I am going to have to get the missing parts "by other means", I might as well watch the whole thing that way.



> One thing that would be nice is the ability to record a third or even fourth show. Since I don't need cable cards for the broadcast networks, I would not need to get extra cable cards.


 You could get another TiVo, but unless you are talking OTA or analog cable, you will need a cablecard if you want guide data.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> There is a feature called "Overlap Protection" that will allow two back to back shows to overlap by up to 5 minutes and still record. If turned on the the higher priority show is recorded completely while the lower priority show is clipped.
> 
> My biggest problem with this feature is that it's global, so it's all or nothing. For example if you have a SP for a cable show that repeats constantly, but the first airing overlaps with a padded show, then it will still record the first airing, causing one of the shows to be clipped, rather then rescheduling for a later airing.
> 
> ...


This is why I turn off clipping. It is very annoying to have a few minutes of a show cut off. I won't even watch a show if that happens. For instance if the President comes on and part of a shwo gets pre-empted, i won't even watch that recording. I will look for a copy of the show shomewhere else. But the same applies for the start or ending of a show getting clipped.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> This is why I turn off clipping. It is very annoying to have a few minutes of a show cut off. I won't even watch a show if that happens. For instance if the President comes on and part of a shwo gets pre-empted, i won't even watch that recording. I will look for a copy of the show shomewhere else. But the same applies for the start or ending of a show getting clipped.


The only time clipping is nice is when shows are on back to back on the same network but run over. Like the NBC comedies on Thursday night. They almost always run long by 1 minute, so if I don't watch them in order then I end up having to save an entire half hour recording just so I can keep the 1 minute of the previous show that ran over into it.

Dan


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

But then if they don't go over, you have the beginning of the next show at the end of the first one.

Obviously, this is all a plot to force us to buy additional DVRs so that we have enough tuners to record everything with padding and still have no conflicts and no clipping.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> Obviously, this is all a plot to force us to buy additional DVRs so that we have enough tuners to record everything with padding and still have no conflicts and no clipping.


I almost do. I have 6 HD tuners between 3 TiVos. Thursdays are really the only night I can't do that. 

Dan


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## Stormydog (Oct 13, 2010)

It is very involved when you have a lot of SP. Impossible to prioritize which show you want higher priority and then, sometimes other showings conflict with an already scheduled show to record, or there are no more showings. Combine this with the very aggrevating fact that tv guide lists a show but instead play another completely different showat that time. But, you never discover this until it is recorded and you play it back and discover another show in its place. I cant tell you how many times my guide states this specific show but the network ran another show in that same timeslot. GRRRR!

I can see making some tv guide listing mistakes if the networks did everything by writing it down on note pads but with the level of software abilities, it should never happen today.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

When a network makes a late programming change, how do you expect that information to get propagated to all of the TiVos? Sometimes, it is not even the network that made the change but the local affiate. I suppose you could do it with some sort of mod to the remote scheduling routines but that wouldn't work for TiVos that only "phone home" once a day.

Do you really want TiVo to allocate resources to handle a problem that doesn't occur all that often? I would rather see them fix existing bugs and make the s/w more fault tolerant.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> When a network makes a late programming change, how do you expect that information to get propagated to all of the TiVos? Sometimes, it is not even the network that made the change but the local affiate. I suppose you could do it with some sort of mod to the remote scheduling routines but that wouldn't work for TiVos that only "phone home" once a day.


Actually TiVos have a built in IM protocol that allows the head end to alert them about last minute changes. The problem is that the data TiVo uses comes from a 3rd party company, and they get their data from the networks, so TiVo is several levels removed and unlikely to receive a notice of a last minute change in time to actually do anything about it.

Dan


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> This is not under control of the cable company. Sometimes, it is not even the fault of the network but is done by the local affiliate.


You are assuming this is a local broadcast. TNT is the worst offender that I have noticed.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> The only time clipping is nice is when shows are on back to back on the same network but run over.


Well, it's not the only time. Some networks don't start their shows on time. TCM, for example, often has several minutes of intro to the movie before the movie itself starts. Clipping this is no big deal. Golden Girls (on WE, I think) usually starts a little over a minute late, so that when it is clipped by 1 minute, I still get the entire episode.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I agree there are other scenarios where it's OK. Would still be nice to have it as a per show setting. That way you could set an individual SP to allow clipping or not.

Dan


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## Emacee (Dec 15, 2000)

Yes, I don't like watching clipped shows either. I keep it activated so I can see recording conflicts in the To Do list (with an asterisk). I check it every few days and then go and make changes manually to avoid clipping.


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