# Comcast Cuts Cable Cards?



## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

So

I like so many of you have the error message on some of my channels. 

"this channel is not authorized please contact your cable provider"

Well they have been trying to fix it for months

new cable cards, boosted signals, etc.

comcast has really dropped the ball here. 

Anyway tivo said I needed a motorola cable card vs cisco that I have. They also suggested an attenuator. Well, after a three week wait, a comcast tech shows up supposedly to install all this stuff and has none of it. Says they don't carry cable cards at all.

I call tech support back and they tell me comcast doesn't supply or support cable cards any longer, they've been removed from my market. Sorry!

Um what???

I just bought a roamio pro and 4 mini's

Anyone else hear of this?!?!?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They're full of sh*t! They are required by law to support them. You should be able to go down to the local office and pick one up. 

Although you can't choose the brand. The brand of the card typically matches the brand of the equipment at the head end. But either brand will work. It's a standard.


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## bananaman (Jul 18, 2005)

That's a lot of nonsense. Call the Comcast CableCard hotline 1-877-405-2298.


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

Yeah, that's crap - they are required to supply them: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights

What Dan203 said about it being a standard is true - although of course there is still the possibility of buggy hardware, which has been an issue. This article does specifically mention Cisco cards on Comcast (although this doesn't sound like your issue?): http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-08/outdated-cablecards-limit-tivo-roamio-tuning-capabilities/


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

FWIW, TiVo isn't necessarily the authority on what kind (Moto v. Cisco) of cards you need. What kind of cable box did you have before you got your TiVo? That will dictate what kind of CableCard you need.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm not kidding.

To answer your questions

Dan, I have a cisco. it doesn't work. The Error message 

"this channel is not authorized please contact your cable provider" is literally on every single cable channel. I can only watch local channels nothing else.

Comcast send techs out who know nothing about tivo. I've had 4 in the past 3 months. 

Tivo did some troubleshooting and said this is a known issue with some comcast cisco/sci atlanta cable cards and the roamio. they said for the least issues ask for motorola. If they can't give me that I must have firmware version 1.5.3 for cisco. the 1.5.2 I currently have doesn't work, and won't work. I must have 1.5.3.

and comcast says they have no motorola and no 1.5.3 in my market, and while they're offering service on the cable cards in circulation they're not offering anymore. They're are none available of 1.5.3 or motorola anything in my area.


Bananaman, I've spoken to the cable card hotline ladies many many times. I think they all know me by name! lol Refresh signals after refresh signals, tech after tech. NOTHING FIXES IT.

Todd, I think they will support this version i have, but won't give me a new version since this version won't work with roamio. But I will try again.

Joseph, I've been a tivo customer since 2004. I had no box before. When I moved to this city, I unpacked 5 Tivo HD's had multi stream cards in all of them. Cisco/Sci Atlanta. They worked fine. I upgraded to a premiere 4 and 2 mini's and had no issues. I upgraded to a roamio and the issues began and have gotten increasingly worse.

I haven't had a cable box since HDTV wasn't invented


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

wecnews said:


> Bananaman, I've spoken to the cable card hotline ladies many many times. I think they all know me by name! lol Refresh signals after refresh signals, tech after tech. NOTHING FIXES IT.


A refresh signal would not matter since the card is not paired correctly based on what you are describing. The firmware version shouldn't make a difference since there have been very little reports of cablecards not pairing because of old firmware.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

rainwater said:


> A refresh signal would not matter since the card is not paired correctly based on what you are describing. The firmware version shouldn't make a difference since there have been very little reports of cablecards not pairing because of old firmware.


it shows paired.

comcast shows no error messages at all on their end

and pairing is "complete"

but still no channels.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

From what you've described, it definitely sounds like some kind of weird pairing problem. If you've tried pairing multiple CableCards to this Roamio unit and all have had the exact same problem, I'd actually be inclined to think maybe the problem is the Roamio unit itself. Maybe you just got a lemon. If I were you, I'd push TiVo hard to let you exchange this Roamio unit for another one.


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

They are violating multiple FCC regulations (see the link I sent earlier) and I would report them. There are explicit laws against installers showing up without cablecards and against providing inaccurate information. Of course, that is not likely to bring an expedient resolution to your problem so I'd probably start by calling Comcast and telling them you're going to report them and see if that lights a fire under their butts.

I don't remember the details but I do remember having a miserable time with Comcast pairing many years ago. I think they eventually sent a tech with new cards which finally fixed the problem, with some fishy sounding explanation.

A defective Tivo is also a possibility, you could try to have them send you another one.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

I've hinted at it.

they say it's a known issue and it's a firmware problem.

but I don't know.

So I'm left trying to deal with this.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

wecnews said:


> I've hinted at it.
> 
> they say it's a known issue and it's a firmware problem.
> 
> ...


On the cable card menu just check the letter after the work Val, it should be a* V* if it is a *?* the card is not paired. maybe this is just for the Moto cards that I have, but may be worth a try.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Are those premium channels (such as HBO)? Non-premium channels don't even require pairing.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

only channels I get are local channels cbs, nbc, abc, pbs, and ind. 

nothing else comes through no animal planet, hgtv, disney, hbo, nothing


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

can you tell i only have internet? 

all i do is read and surf the net


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

wecnews said:


> only channels I get are local channels cbs, nbc, abc, pbs, and ind.


If those channels are not encrypted in your market, then that means you cannot get any encrypted channels.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

c3 said:


> Are those premium channels (such as HBO)? Non-premium channels don't even require pairing.


Are you sure about that? I don't have Comcast, but when I installed my CableCard on Time Warner, the only channels I was getting before I called them to pair it with my Roamio were the local broadcast channels, community access channels, and C-SPAN.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Are you sure about that?


Yes, that's how it works with Comcast, at least in the San Francisco Bay Area.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I agree with the comments above that you are going to probably have to get mean and nasty with Comcast on this with some threats of filing formal complaints about them to the appropriate regulatory authorities. It is completely unacceptable and illegal that they are not supplying proper CableCards with up-to-date firmware. 

But I'm also not 100% convinced with TiVo's explanation that this is simply a CableCard firmware issue. Everything you describe sounds like it is some kind of pairing issue, and old firmware is unlikely to be the cause of that. 

There have to be literally thousands of Comcast customers successfully using their Roamios with Comcast CableCards. Of course TiVo wants to blame Comcast for the problem (and it very well may be Comcast's fault), but it just seems a little suspicious to me that thousands of other Roamio units have been successfully paired with Comcast CableCards over the last 6 months but yours can't be. This is what makes me think maybe you could have a Roamio with some kind of strange CableCard pairing defect.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They're confusing the issue. The firmware does not effect basic pairing. It can effect the Roamio's ability to use all 6 tuners, but if you can't tune channels on the first 4 then something is screwed up with the pairing.

As for the comment above about how only HBO, etc... requiring pairing, that varies by market. While most cable companies only enable the copy protection bit on premium channels a LOT of them encrypt all but the locals. They're not allowed to encrypt the local channels, which is why you cans see those, but they can encrypt the rest. Unencrypted channels (aka clear QAM) are going away in almost all major markets. 

As I said above they are required to allow you to do a self install. So what I would do is go down to the local office and trade your current CableCARD for a new one. When you get home pop it into your TiVo and a special pairing screen will pop up. Take a picture of it just in case it clears before you get someone on the phone. Now call the special CableCARD hotline and give them the info on the screen. Make sure they read it back to you and verify. I had a problem once and it turned out the lady on the phone had transversed a couple of numbers.

If they can't get that new one working insist that TiVo send you a new Roamio. When you get the new one try pairing the same card. If it still doesn't work then ask to speak to a supervisor at Comcast and tell them if they can't get it working you're canceling your service and getting DirecTV and DSL instead.

Unfortunately these things can be a real PITA sometimes. It's hard to find someone that actually knows what they are doing with CableCARDs and techs tend to blow them off with an "They never trained me on TiVo" attitude.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> They're not allowed to encrypt the local channels


They are allowed. Started about 3 months ago in my area, and earlier in other areas.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

c3 said:


> They are allowed. Started about 3 months ago in my area, and earlier in other areas.


Just one more example of how the FCC has failed to protect the public.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

c3 said:


> They are allowed. Started about 3 months ago in my area, and earlier in other areas.


Yes, they received a waiver by claiming that it was the only way to prevent theft of service. The fact that you will now need a piece of their equipment (DTA, full box or CableCARD) at every TV to get _*anything*_ is an unfortunate side effect.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

Apparently my market is OUT OF CABLE CARDS. lol

Went to comcast and tried to get a new one, they said they don't have any at all. Call 1800-xfinity.

do that, and they tell you they don't support cable cards in my market.

crazy huh?

I said well I returned 5 last week, can i have those back? 

No. they say.

I think you're right, I'm going to ask tivo to give me a new roamio.

They've been much more helpful than comcast. perhaps I just got a bad box, and since I'm getting no where with comcast, I think this is my best bet.

sigh.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

one more

since you guys think the firmware isn't the issue what about this attenuator business.

tivo said a need a 6db attenuator. 

comcast tech said he didn't know what that was..


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## Tom Pich (Jan 29, 2013)

The firmware issues some are referring to causes some to not be able to use all six tuners in their Roamios. Which seem to be primarily on Cisco systems. This may be a problem for you later on, but right now this is not your issue.

Pairing only affects copy protected channels. Comcast only copy protects premium channels (Encore, HBO, Showtime ect.). This is how we know pairing isn't the immediate issue, because you're missing many more channels.

The attenuator suggested is actually a -6db attenuator. Some Roamio owners have had problems with a signal that is too hot. If this is your issue the attenuator may fix your problem. I would be wary of any tech that didn't know what an attenuator is. Comcast techs are really hit and miss. Some of these guys really know their stuff and others not so much. Sorry you got a bad one.

I'm no expert but, in my opinion you have one of a few possible issues.

1.A too hot signal which an attenuator may fix
2.CableCard not activated properly
3.Defective CableCard
4.Defective TiVo Roamio

If the CableCard you're using now was pulled from one of your previous working TiVos, then it in all likelihood is activated properly.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

You might try reaching out to @comcastcares on twitter.


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## JohnnyO (Nov 3, 2002)

SullyND said:


> You might try reaching out to @comcastcares on twitter.


I agree. I've had luck with this route, as have two of my friends. It'll get you to a person who actually has some skills and authority to cut through red-tape.

You can also reach the same team via email: [email protected]

John


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Did you only have internet before? Are you sure there is not a trap on your line? That could also explain the problems. They would need to come out and remove it.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

c3 said:


> Yes, that's how it works with Comcast, at least in the San Francisco Bay Area.


Yup, that's how it works in the Boston/New England market as well. I picked up my cablecard from the office the day after Christmas and still haven't gotten around to pairing it because the only thing we can't get is our HBO and our Xfinity On Demand.

I don't actually watch anything current on HBO (still working my way through back seasons of things on HBOGO) and haven't needed On Demand since now we have 6 tuners and no conflicts.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

wecnews said:


> can you tell i only have internet?
> 
> all i do is read and surf the net


If you only have internet with Comcast then you will be able to only receive the Broadcast Basic channels. They have placed a trap on your drop to filter out any other channels. If the channels you receive are mapped to their virtual channel numbers then the CableCard is working properly.
You can check this in the diagnostics menu which is located in the settings menu in TiVo Central.

You will have to subscribe to a higher channel package if this is the case.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

rainwater said:


> Did you only have internet before? Are you sure there is not a trap on your line? That could also explain the problems. They would need to come out and remove it.


I second this theory.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Easiest solution would be to get a cable box from Comcast for a day or two, and see if IT works. That will rule out the cable, trap, bad line, etc.
FWIW, I had a similar issue on my second Tivo cablecard. Turned out it was paired correctly, the signal was good, but apparently billing assigns your package info to each individual card after the fact. That cablecard showed I was only subscribing to limited basic, even though the other two cablecards in other rooms were assigned my correct package. You might verify with billing what programming package they have assigned to that cablecard giving you issues. Its a totally different department than the pairing/activation group.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Davelnlr_ said:


> Easiest solution would be to get a cable box from Comcast for a day or two, and see if IT works. That will rule out the cable, trap, bad line, etc.


Good idea. I second this.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

SullyND said:


> You might try reaching out to @comcastcares on twitter.


Or look at your cable bill for the phone number of your local "franchise authority" and call them to report your complaint. In theory, they should carry some weight with Comcast.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Tom Pich said:


> Pairing only affects copy protected channels. Comcast only copy protects premium channels (Encore, HBO, Showtime ect.).


This is not right. Pairing effects all encrypted channels. Encryption and copy protection are two different things. If the CableCARD is not paired then you will not be able to tune any encrypted channels regardless of their copy protection status. Copy protection is used on the premium channels to prevent copying of the shows after they are recorded. This is what blocks TiVoToGo, out of home streaming and transferring a show between TiVos.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm trying the comcast cares/executive customer relations today.

I don't know what else to do.

To answer some of your questions.

When I said "Can you tell I only have internet?" I meant right now because of my broken cable.

I subscribe to a full array of channels, and got them all for 2 years with no issues pre-roamio. I'm just not getting them now.

So no there's no trap.

Also, the cable card that is in my roamio came out of a Tivo HD which worked fine. Other tivo hd's in my house work fine.

problem lies with the roamio.

Tivo says I need the attenuator and the right firmware before they send a replacement.

Comcast won't do either.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wecnews said:


> one more
> 
> since you guys think the firmware isn't the issue what about this attenuator business.
> 
> ...


Throw a 4 way splitter on the line before it goes into your TiVo. That will act as a 7db attenuator.

However the pairing signal is sent using an OOB signal. If you look at the DVR diagnostics screen in account &system information screen you'll be able to see if the TiVo has an OOB lock. If it doesn't then that would explain why the card isn't pairing and points to a problem with the line coming into your house.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> This is not right. Pairing effects all encrypted channels. Encryption and copy protection are two different things. If the CableCARD is not paired then you will not be able to tune any encrypted channels regardless of their copy protection status. Copy protection is used on the premium channels to prevent copying of the shows after they are recorded. This is what blocks TiVoToGo, out of home streaming and transferring a show between TiVos.


You're wrong. I'm running my Roamio right now with an un-paired CableCARD. I do not subscribe to any premiums and have no problems. This is on Comcast and they are encrypting _*all*_ of the channels, even the locals.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wecnews said:


> Tivo says I need the attenuator and the right firmware before they send a replacement.
> 
> Comcast won't do either.


The firmware will only effect your Roamio's ability to use all 6 tuners. It will not prevent basic pairing. It's BS that they say you "need" the firmware to prove that it's bad TiVo.

If they wont fix it then tell them you want to return it under the 30 day guarantee and then just buy one from Amazon instead.

I personally don't think the TiVo is the issue, but the only way to rule it out completely is to exchange.

One thing to consider.... The firmware on your card could cause a problem with you using all 6 tuners on the Roamio even if you get past the pairing issue. If Comcast refuses to upgrade it then you may be stuck using your 6 tuner Roamio as a 4 tuner box. Is upgrading from a 4 tuner Premiere to a 4 tuner Roamio really worth it?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> You're wrong. I'm running my Roamio right now with an un-paired CableCARD. I do not subscribe to any premiums and have no problems. This is on Comcast and they are encrypting _*all*_ of the channels, even the locals.


That's not possible. The card can not decrypt the channels unless it's paired. That's how the CableCARD spec works. So either your card is paired or the channels aren't encrypted.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> That's not possible. The card can not decrypt the channels unless it's paired. That's how the CableCARD spec works. So either your card is paired or the channels aren't encrypted.


You're wrong.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

wecnews said:


> Also, the cable card that is in my roamio came out of a Tivo HD which worked fine. Other tivo hd's in my house work fine.


Save yourself the trouble and just get a replacement cablecard. Most likely they just haven't removed the old pairing. Comcast provides cablecards as self-install kits. If your local Comcast won't, you may have to contact corporate to get the ball rolling.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> You're wrong.


OK I researched this a bit and we're both wrong. There are two levels of "encryption" when it comes to CableCARDs. The first is conditional access, where the card simply needs to be linked to your account to authorize you to access the channels you subscribe to. The second is actual encryption and requires the card to be paired to a device to decrypt the channel. However neither one has anything to do with "copy protection". Copy protection is handled by the CCI byte and can be set regardless of the "encryption" level used.

So apparently in your specific area they use conditional access, but only use the higher level of encryption for premium channels. In my area they use the higher level encryption for everything except locals and a few basic cable channels. So if the card is not paired you can only access like a dozen channels. However they only copy protect premiums because all other channels can still be transferred between TiVos and to a PC using TiVoToGo.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> That's not possible. The card can not decrypt the channels unless it's paired. That's how the CableCARD spec works. So either your card is paired or the channels aren't encrypted.


I can used and sometimes do use a non paired Comcast Moto card in a TiVo and get all stations except the HBO type stations. Comcast encrypts *ALL* stations now in my area, my new HDTV can't now tune any cable station with the built in tuner, I assume OTA would work.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Read my post above. There are two ways to setup encryption. One requires pairing to a device, one just requires the card to be registered with the account. However neither is explicitly linked to copy protection, which was the point of my original post. Copy protection is something completely different. You can require pairing, as they do in my area, without protecting every channel.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> OK I researched this a bit and we're both wrong. There are two levels of "encryption" when it comes to CableCARDs. The first is conditional access, where the card simply needs to be linked to your account to authorize you to access the channels you subscribe to. The second is actual encryption and requires the card to be paired to a device to decrypt the channel. However neither one has anything to do with "copy protection". Copy protection is handled by the CCI byte and can be set regardless of the "encryption" level used.


How am I wrong? It was your claim that you cannot decrypt anything unless the CableCARD is is paired to which I objected. I never even mentioned "copy protection". I am quite well aware that copy protection is controlled by the value of the CCI byte and has nothing to do with encryption.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I thought you were the same guy I replied to initially who claimed that only "copy protected" channels require pairing. Although you were quoting my reply to him in your original rebuttal.

In any case my original post about pairing having no relation to "copy protection" is still true.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Just got this email from Comcast which sort of applies to some of the discussion here:
Important Service Message:

***Deleted*** see repaginated post below this one. Much easier to read. Thanks SullyND


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Is Comcast Haiku?

Repaginated so that it is legible.



Spoiler



Important Service Message:
On March 6, 2014, Comcast will start encrypting Limited Basic service on your cable system.

If you have a set-top box, digital transport adapter (DTA), or a retail CableCARD TM device connected to each of your TVs, you will be unaffected by this change. However, if you are currently receiving Comcast's Limited Basic service on any TV without equipment supplied by Comcast, you will lose the ability to view any channels on that TV.

If you are affected, you should contact Comcast at 855-860-8989 to arrange for the equipment you need to continue receiving your services. In such case, you are entitled to receive equipment at no additional charge or service fee for a limited period of time. The number and type of devices you are entitled to receive, and for how long, will vary depending on your situation:

- If you are a Limited Basic customer and receive the service on your TV without Comcast supplied equipment, you are entitled to up to two devices for two years (five years if you also receive Medicaid).

- If you subscribe to a higher level of service and receive Limited Basic service on a secondary TV without Comcast-supplied equipment, you are entitled to one device for one year. You can learn more about this equipment offer and eligibility at comcast.com/digitaladapterinfo or by calling 855-860-8989.
To qualify for any equipment at no additional charge or service fee, you must request your equipment between now and July 4, 2014 and satisfy all other eligibility requirements.


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## JohnnyO (Nov 3, 2002)

SullyND said:


> Is Comcast Haiku?
> 
> Repaginated so that it is legible.




They did this in Minneapolis/St. Paul (well, at least my suburb with a Motorola head-end) last year. The local cable authority got a lot of negative feedback, which they funneled to Comcast.


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## Tom Pich (Jan 29, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> I thought you were the same guy I replied to initially who claimed that only "copy protected" channels require pairing. Although you were quoting my reply to him in your original rebuttal.
> 
> In any case my original post about pairing having no relation to "copy protection" is still true.


I may have confused things by using the wrong terminology. Sorry for that. My point was that on my cable system (Comcast/Motorola) I can receive all channels except the premium channels with an activated but unpaired CableCard. I think this is the same for Comcast/Cisco cable systems. Since the OP was only recieving a few broadcast channels, I figured his problem wasn't CableCard pairing.


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## sakaike (Jan 22, 2002)

Can the OP please state what part of the country you are in so that we can possibly see if any other Comcast customers from that region can chip into this dialog with their own experiences?

Based on all the limited info presented thus far, I'm beginning to lean to the possibility of a bad box as opposed to a bad CC, given that the OP claims to have used more than one CC in his Roamio thus far (I think that's the case, although the story is beginning to get a bit garbled)...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So is Comcast going to start encrypting the locals around the entire country? I wonder when the other major cable providers will start doing this?


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> So is Comcast going to start encrypting the locals around the entire country? I wonder when the other major cable providers will start doing this?


Yes, and when they realize they can make people have to pay for extra outlets they are getting free now...after the legally mandated "free period".


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

sakaike said:


> Can the OP please state what part of the country you are in so that we can possibly see if any other Comcast customers from that region can chip into this dialog with their own experiences?
> 
> Based on all the limited info presented thus far, I'm beginning to lean to the possibility of a bad box as opposed to a bad CC, given that the OP claims to have used more than one CC in his Roamio thus far (I think that's the case, although the story is beginning to get a bit garbled)...


I'm in Memphis, TN.

I agree if you guys are correct about this firmware not being the issue, then I think I may have a bad box too.

I have used several different cable cards in this box with the same result.


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Have you checked your Tivo cablecard status screen against the correct readouts: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2571

If you post what is different about your readings vs what they are supposed to be, we might be able to figure out what the problem is.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> Is upgrading from a 4 tuner Premiere to a 4 tuner Roamio really worth it?


OMG yes.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

wecnews said:


> Also, the cable card that is in my roamio came out of a Tivo HD which worked fine. Other tivo hd's in my house work fine.





> Tivo says I need the attenuator and the right firmware before they send a replacement.


I had a similar situation!



Dan203 said:


> Throw a 4 way splitter on the line before it goes into your TiVo. That will act as a 7db attenuator.


... And this solved it for me.

Over the last few years, my living room TiVo has gone from a Premiere to a Premiere XL4, a Roamio Pro that died after 3 days, and then the current Roamio Pro.

Each time I changed TiVos, I only changed the TiVo. The cable card and the wiring (hdmi, power, USB tuning adapter) stayed the same.

Couldn't get the first Roamio to work with the cable card. Cox said it showed paired on their end, but I couldn't get any encrypted channels (which seem to only be HBO, etc in this market). The TiVo died before this was solved, so I was hopeful the replacement TiVo wouldn't have this issue.

No luck. Roamio #2 acted the same. Cox showed paired on their end, but I got no encrypted channels on my end.

Talking with TiVo, they noticed the SNR was super high. They suggested an attenuator. I had a 4-way splitter, so I used that instead. That dropped the SNR level. I called Cox. They unpaired/repaired the cable, and everything has been fine since then.

Weird that the Roamio choked on the same cable card/wiring/signal that two models of Premieres had no problems with!


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

aristoBrat said:


> Weird that the Roamio choked on the same cable card/wiring/signal that two models of Premieres had no problems with!


I have seen reports here, but haven't seen them substantiated by looking at the hardware, that the Roamio has an extra internal amplifier because of the 6-way split. This seems consistent with various reports like this one and other reports that there are occasionally more problems when multiple tuners are on the same channel (eg after reboot). Has someone verify this on the hardware?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> So is Comcast going to start encrypting the locals around the entire country? I wonder when the other major cable providers will start doing this?


Comcast has been doing this for some time now, the ATL was encrypted last month. They are going to do the whole footprint.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28332906-Report-notifications-of-Limited-Basic-tier-encryption-here


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> So is Comcast going to start encrypting the locals around the entire country? I wonder when the other major cable providers will start doing this?


and they are about to tack on a fee on the locals as well,
http://www.dslreports.com/news/127393


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> I have seen reports here, but haven't seen them substantiated by looking at the hardware, that the Roamio has an extra internal amplifier because of the 6-way split. This seems consistent with various reports like this one and other reports that there are occasionally more problems when multiple tuners are on the same channel (eg after reboot). Has someone verify this on the hardware?


I can confirm at least in my situation that I had a base and a pro and the base showed signal levels in the high 80's while the pro showed levels of high 90's and 100 using the same cable tv coax. I took that to mean there's some internal amplification going on in the pro.


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## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

If your signal strength is above 90 you need to get it lower. Tivo told me between 85 and 90 is the best. Any higher and it causes problems. If Comcast wont give you an antenuator then go pick up a 4 way splitter and put it in line. That will drop you 7 DB's


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

SNJpage1 said:


> If your signal strength is above 90 you need to get it lower. Tivo told me between 85 and 90 is the best. Any higher and it causes problems. If Comcast wont give you an antenuator then go pick up a 4 way splitter and put it in line. That will drop you 7 DB's


My signal strength sits at 100% and I have never had a single problem. The SNR is much more important. The Roamio's are much better at dealing with a high SNR than the Premiere was. Btw, the SNR has nothing to do with the original posters issues.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Btw, the SNR has nothing to do with the original posters issues.


So it's the signal strength then?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aristoBrat said:


> So it's the signal strength then?


No, I doubt signal has anything to do with the original poster. Either his Roamio is defective or Comcast doesn't know how to pair his card correctly.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

rainwater said:


> No, I doubt signal has anything to do with the original poster. Either his Roamio is defective or Comcast doesn't know how to pair his card correctly.


I had pretty much the same symptoms as the OP (on two different Roamios) and the only thing that fixed it was putting a 4-way splitter in-line.

And I don't think it's Cox, because before TiVo told me to drop the SNR down to the mid-30s, I could swap out the Roamio the old XL4 that it was replacing, and the card would pair the card perfectly on the XL4, every time. Did that probably 5-6x during the troubleshooting. Then swap the XL4 with the Roamio, and have them pair the same card the same way they just did with the XL4, and no-go. Showed perfectly fine on their end, but no encrypted channels on my end.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aristoBrat said:


> I had pretty much the same symptoms as the OP (on two different Roamios) and the only thing that fixed it was putting a 4-way splitter in-line.
> 
> And I don't think it's Cox, because before TiVo told me to drop the SNR down to the mid-30s, I could swap out the Roamio the old XL4 that it was replacing, and the card would pair the card perfectly on the XL4, every time. Did that probably 5-6x during the troubleshooting. Then swap the XL4 with the Roamio, and have them pair the same card the same way they just did with the XL4, and no-go. Showed perfectly fine on their end, but no encrypted channels on my end.


It is possible but the original poster already noted they had other cablecard TiVos on the same line with no issues. In my experience, the Roamio is less susceptible to SNR issues than the Premiere (but maybe more so than the TiVo HD). But without the original poster giving us any details to the SNR or to their cablecard pairing screen info, it is impossible to tell.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

rainwater said:


> It is possible but the original poster already noted they had other cablecard TiVos on the same line with no issues.


Right, so did I.

When I upgrade my Living Room TiVo, the only thing that changes is the TiVo model.

The wall jack stays the same.
The cable card and tuning adapter stay the same.
The wiring (coax, HDMI, power, USB-to-tuning adapter, ethernet) stays the same.

All I do is unplug/remove the old TiVo, swap the cable card to the new TiVo, put the new TiVo on the shelf + plug the wires back in, and then call Cox to pair the cable card with the new TiVo.

Zero problems pairing a Premiere.
Zero problems pairing an XL4.
Absolutely could not get a Roamio paired (using the exact same _everything_ that the Premiere and XL4 used) until a 4-way splitter was added in-line.



> But without the original poster giving us any details to the SNR or to their cablecard pairing screen info, it is impossible to tell.


Agreed, which is why I was confused when you said _"Btw, the SNR has nothing to do with the original posters issues."_

I just wanted to share my experience with the OP, as I had pretty much the same symptoms, down to the cable company system reporting the Roamio paired properly, but the Roamio didn't (and couldn't tune all channels). Maybe he's got the same issue, maybe not.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aristoBrat said:


> Agreed, which is why I was confused when you said _"Btw, the SNR has nothing to do with the original posters issues."_


Because the original poster has no issues viewing the locals. That points to the more likely cablecard pairing or defective Roamio.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Because the original poster has no issues viewing the locals. That points to the more likely cablecard pairing or defective Roamio.


That's my point. I had two Roamios with cablecard pairing issues. The solution to fix the cablecard pairing was to lower the SNR/signal levels by installing a 4-way splitter. Only then would the cablecard pair with the Roamio, which allowed the Roamio to view everything.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

UPDATES

Wrote my nasty letter to comcast.

2 days later I got a call saying they were "out of cable cards in memphis" but working to find one in another state and send to me.

A few hours later I get another call. I was outside working in the yard, so they left a message. They talked to a senior tech and sent an "upgrade" to my cable card, please go check my TV.

I did and low and behold 97.5% of my channels were back. On whatever simple button push they did.

I asked what it was, but they just used nothing words like "upgrade signal"

Anyway -- points to a pairing issue to me.

Guy I talked to on the phone (i called back) seemed shocked that i had talked to cable card hotline 8 times and they couldn't help me.

Anyway. it didn't fix everything.

I would still have some channels i'm supposed to get say "this channel not authorized" simple basic ones, like USA and TNT.

They would say this one minute and then work the next.

Also sometimes as you change channels the grey screen saying 
"This screen is provided for your cable provider" would pop up.

Sometimes on it's own in the middle of a show.

They tried a few more "signal refreshes" they worked on some channels not on others.

Then some channels I got before were now saying "not authorized"

So. they didn't know what was wrong and are sending a tech tomorrow.


New things popped up

Tivo would tell me its recording a show. but if you play it, it says it's a partial recording and there's nothing there, it's all black. no video.

but if you watch that same channel live, it works fine.

weird huh?

that never happened before.


This one too.

You're watching a show, you see the show just fine but the box

"this channel is not authorized" popped up over the channel which is showing just fine.

Again this never happened before yesterday.


Unsure what they did, but they fixed 97% of it with a button push from their office.


But it's still wonky.


To answer your other questions.


Signal strength is at 97% - 100 % ( it's different on different channels)

SNR is at 39db - 41db again varying by channel


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

wecnews said:


> Signal strength is at 97% - 100 % ( it's different on different channels)
> 
> SNR is at 39db - 41db again varying by channel


That's about what I had before installing an attenuator, even though I did not have problem without the attenuator. I brought signal strength down to 93-98% and SNR down to 37-39dB.

When you get a problematic channel, check the signal levels and error counts.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

wecnews said:


> Tivo did some troubleshooting and said this is a known issue with some comcast cisco/sci atlanta cable cards and the roamio. they said for the least issues ask for motorola. If they can't give me that I must have firmware version 1.5.3 for cisco. the 1.5.2 I currently have doesn't work, and won't work. I must have 1.5.3.
> 
> and comcast says they have no motorola and no 1.5.3 in my market, and while they're offering service on the cable cards in circulation they're not offering anymore. They're are none available of 1.5.3 or motorola anything in my area.


Just for giggles can you post what the full firmware version number running on your CableCard, so far I have only seen the first three digits mentioned, ie; "152" as being the firmware you have and "153" being the firmware Tivo mentioned would work but Comcast doesn't support.

I am running firmware "PKEY1.5.2_F.p.2401" on a Cisco CableCard and have had to limit my Roamio Pro to 5 active tuners to have a fully stable service. Any firmware that is older than this firmware release on a Cisco/SA CableCard will not work on a 6 tuner Roamio. The Tivo website states the minimum firmware for Cisco/SA CableCard is "PKEY1.5.2_F.p.2801", hence the problem of only 5 tuners working for me at this time. Charter just shrugs their shoulders at upgrading firmware to a more current release...

It is my understanding that the ultimate solution is to upgrade the firmware to PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1101 for full functionality on the Roamio Pro, but I believe that firmware release PKEY1.5.2_F.p.3001 also works with all 6 Roamio Pro tuners active according to reports by other users.

BTW, to activate/deactivate the number of tuners on your Roamio 6 tuner box:

Go to Settings > Channels > Channel List
Enter one of the following number sequences using the number buttons on the remote. 
(you will here a sound similar to when you press the "Thumbs Up" button once the code is entered properly).

These codes will tell Roamio the how many tuners it can use.
- 88633 = use 3 tuners
- 88634 = use 4 tuners
- 88635 = use 5 tuners
- 88636 = use 6 tuners
Then force a reboot of the Tivo, very important! Do not skip this last step!


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## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

pshivers said:


> It is my understanding that the ultimate solution is to upgrade the firmware to PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1101 for full functionality on the Roamio Pro, but I believe that firmware release PKEY1.5.2_F.p.3001 also works with all 6 Roamio Pro tuners active according to reports by other users.


PKEY1.5.2_F.p.3001 does not work with six tuners. It may work sometimes but eventually you will get errors.


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## KevinG (Sep 3, 2003)

HazelW said:


> PKEY1.5.2_F.p.3001 does not work with six tuners. It may work sometimes but eventually you will get errors.


This might depend on the area you are in, right? I'm going on 2 months without a single issue.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

My firmware is PKEY1.5.2_F.p.2401

I have tuners 0 - 5 running according to DVR Diagnostics for a total of 6.

I just know it's a heck of a lot and enough for us. lol

We have the roamio and 3 mini's in our house, but they're never all running at once.

only me, my wife, and my 4 year old here. 

We usually only use 4% of our hard drive of shows.

as for my other issues

I have tech supervisor and tivo senior tech on conference call in my home.
two smart guys. 

Tivo basically said I need the new firmware, to help fix it. Saying Cisco put it out and it helps. Comcast says they're beta testing the new firmware from cisco on their system and it's not available yet until they work out the kinks. They say the 1.5.3 firmware is causing a black screen issue on their network that they're trying to fix. Only a small amount of tivo users have the 1.5.3 in some markets while they work out the kinks So. 1.5.2 is the best they can do until they finish beta testing.


Tivo swears the SNR needs to be lower. They say somewhere between 29 and 35 is ideal. 

Comcast says their SNR rate must be 37-38. They say FCC fines them if it's lower than 35.

Tivo says no FCC requires no lower than 29. 

Pissing match here over the SNR.

Comcast saying it will affect my internet signal too.

my outlet where the roamio is , is the same outlet where my modem is. there's a splitter feeding both.

They finally agreed that as long my -6 attenuator is on the split between the tivo and the splitter it would lower the SNR for the tivo roamio only and that's ok.


So. everyone shook hands so to speak.

Im supposed to go buy a - 6db attenuator, if that doesn't help. Tivo will switch out my roamio, if that doesn't help, I wait for comcast to finish beta testing new firmware.

Although about 2 hours later my comcast guru's boss called back and said they had brainstormed with some engineers and wanted to come back and try one more thing.

so. they'll be here in the morning. We'll see.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

An attenuator reduces both the signal and noise levels, not the signal to noise ratio directly. If something is too high, it's the overall signal level that's high, not the SNR.


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## JohnnyO (Nov 3, 2002)

wecnews said:


> so. they'll be here in the morning. We'll see.


Thanks for keeping us in the loop. The information you are capturing will certainly help others in the future.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

wecnews said:


> My firmware is PKEY1.5.2_F.p.2401
> 
> I have tuners 0 - 5 running according to DVR Diagnostics&#8230; for a total of 6.
> 
> so&#8230;. they'll be here in the morning. We'll see.


You are currently running the same firmware release as I am. I have had to set my Roamio to 5 active tuners to have a completely error free viewing experience. This is a temporary fix while I wait for Charter Cable to make the PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1101 firmware available to it's customers.

Have you tried changing the number of active tuners on your Roamio to see if the problem goes away?

Go to Settings > Channels > Channel List
Enter one of the following number sequences using the number buttons on the remote. 
(you will here a sound similar to when you press the "Thumbs Up" button once the code is entered properly).

These codes will tell Roamio the how many tuners it can use.
- 88633 = use 3 tuners
- 88634 = use 4 tuners
- 88635 = use 5 tuners
- 88636 = use 6 tuners
Then force a reboot of the Tivo, very important! Do not skip this last step!

I changed mine to 4 tuners for about a week and found that my Roamio worked without error. I then read on this forum that 5 tuners might also work. I switched to 5 active tuners and have been running with that setting for about two months now with ZERO problems on my Roamio.

I have a Roamio Pro, three Tivo Mini's and a Basic Roamio 4-tuner all connected via MoCA networking... (The Basic Roamio (4 tuners) has worked perfectly from day one with an even older firmware release, PKEY1.5.2_F.p.1601), pointing further to this being a greater than 4 tuners problem. The fact that I have two active CableCards from Charter at different firmware release levels leads me to think Charter has a problem updating firmware over the cable....

Reducing the active tuners is not he ultimate solution, but it works for now. There have been very few times where I could use the 6th active tuner, so it has not been a big inconvenience so far, but I would like to have the full functionality that I paid for in my Tivo.

I forgot to mention that the main problem I was having with my Roamio Pro was seemingly random V58 Unauthorized channel errors


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

pshivers said:


> You are currently running the same firmware release as I am. I have had to set my Roamio to 5 active tuners to have a completely error free viewing experience. This is a temporary fix while I wait for Charter Cable to make the PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1101 firmware available to it's customers.


I second this. Anyone having any problems getting channels while using a Cisco (aka Scientific Atlanta) cablecard with an older firmware should try switching to 5 tuners (and then rebooting!) to see if it solves the problem. If that doesn't help, try 4 tuners. (Although 5 seems to work for most people, there seem to be some circumstances where dropping down to 4 might be needed.)

My Roamio works great as long as I have it set to use only 5 tuners. Sure, I look forward to the day they roll out 1.5.3_F.p.1101, but I'm not exactly holding my breath while I wait. (The last time Charter sent out a cablecard firmware update in my area was 4 or 5 years ago, after all.)


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## PoobBubes (Jun 30, 2010)

Try removing the splitter and using the most direct connection you can. I had similar issues with a 2way split feeding a 4way that feed the Roamio. I removed the 4way and the issues went away. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

From a technical aspect, the higher the S/N ratio is the better. Noise is bad. 
From a signal strength point of view, if the cable company is over amping the cable (resulting is a high signal strength), their amps could be clipping, and introducing all sorts of issues. On analog, over amping the signal would result in images of certain channels appearing on other channels (harmonics). Introducing a splitter or attenuator at your house drops the hot signal, and the resultant harmonics. Its the harmonics that are causing the problems. If Tivo picks that up as "noise" in their S/N ratio reading, then that would explain why they say the S/N should be lower. Its really not noise that its reading though, apparently.

The comcast tech that comes out should be able to drop the hot signal down to where it is supposed to be, on the pole/amp. Make sure you tell them that you think the signal is overloading your tuner.

Hope you get it all worked out.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

wecnews said:


> I'm not kidding.
> 
> To answer your questions
> 
> ...


So not literally every single channel.

This means that your cable card is not PAIRED correctly.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> So not literally every single channel.
> 
> This means that your cable card is not PAIRED correctly.


More likely that it is not _*authorized*_ for the correct package.


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## wecnews (Oct 19, 2009)

Comcast showed up today with their "one more thing"

they made me a part of their beta test group for the 1.5.3. fp1101

They updated my cable card to work on this firmware and boom problems solved.

No attenuator nothing.

I have all 6 tuners and so far knocking on wood all working channels.

they will be checking with me regularly for progress reports on any problems with the box.

Seems problem was totally cable card related.

we'll see if everything stays working from here on out with the new firmware.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

wecnews said:


> Comcast showed up today with their "one more thing"
> 
> they made me a part of their beta test group for the 1.5.3. fp1101
> 
> ...


It is unlikely your problem was firmware. As part of the firmware update, they had to re-pair yet again and probably also checked all the settings on your account again and you had the attention of non-clueless people this time around.

Based on all I have read, I believe your problems all along were simply they were not pairing and setting it up correctly due to repeated gross incompetence.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

It was the firmware. No doubt in my mind. Especially, in my case, after having 6-8 different cable cards, 10-12 tech visits, and at least 20 re-pairings -- first with a Premiere and then the Roamio. 1.5.2. 2401 (from 1401?) fixed the daily to monthly rep-pairing, and 1.5.3. 1101 fixed everything else.


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## Nailz (Jan 24, 2014)

wecnews said:


> Comcast showed up today with their "one more thing"
> 
> they made me a part of their beta test group for the 1.5.3. fp1101
> 
> ...


Thanks :up: for providing this information, both the problems and the solution. I live in Huntsville, AL and plan on using Comcast & TiVo. We are not too far from Memphis so if this problem affects both our areas I will be knowledgeable and armed with the solution!

Curtis


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

wecnews said:


> Comcast showed up today with their "one more thing"
> 
> they made me a part of their beta test group for the 1.5.3. fp1101
> 
> ...


Excellent! No need to switch fewer active tuners then!! :up:

Now if Charter would just get on the Firmware Upgrade Ball...


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## mike-d (Dec 12, 2013)

wecnews said:


> Comcast showed up today with their "one more thing"
> 
> they made me a part of their beta test group for the 1.5.3. fp1101
> 
> ...


Hi: How can I ask comcast to update my firmware? Everyone on the phone and at the local office are clueless. Thanks


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## mike-d (Dec 12, 2013)

After so many attempts for a cable card firmware update using regular channels, I finally yesterday emailed To	:	[email protected] with details. Today I received a call, 30 minutes later my cable card was updated to firmware 1.5.3 1101. I have reset my tivo to 6 tuners and so far, ok...  They say they are pushing out the update in waves in my region, westminster, md, but scheduled mine special today.


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## rickadair (Jan 28, 2014)

mike-d said:


> After so many attempts for a cable card firmware update using regular channels, I finally yesterday emailed To	:	[email protected] with details. Today I received a call, 30 minutes later my cable card was updated to firmware 1.5.3 1101. I have reset my tivo to 6 tuners and so far, ok...  They say they are pushing out the update in waves in my region, westminster, md, but scheduled mine special today.


Been fighting this issue for a few days as well. Used the above email address this morning and within 2 hours received a call from Comcast apologizing and submitting my serial numbers to engineering to get the firmware pushed in the next 2 days. Seems like this team is well aware of the Roamio issues and knows how to get them addressed.


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## premus (Feb 10, 2014)

What information did you include in your email to Comcast? I'm still trying to get the right person to read mine.


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