# Adding a HR10-250 to my existing non-HD DirecTV account



## SiliconTiger (Oct 17, 2009)

I am a current non-HD subscriber to DirecTV with two HDVR2's. I want to move now to HD but do not want to use what DirecTV is offering (their non-Tivo HD DVR receiver). Instead I'd like to buy a HR10-250 off eBay or something and add that to my DirecTV account. I have several questions:

1. I know that I need to upgrade my dish to get HD programming. Once I upgrade, can I continue to use my existing two HDVR2s?

2. Will DirecTV allow me to add a HR10-250 to my existing non-HD account? I have heard that while DirecTV will support existing owners of HR10-250 that they do not allow a non-HD customer to move to HD using an HR10-250, that you have to use the non-Tivo HD DVR receiver that they sell.

I'm aware that DirecTV will again offer a Tivo-based HD DVR sometime in 2010 but in the interim I'd like to get started with the HR10-250.

Thanks for your input on the above!


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

SiliconTiger said:


> I am a current non-HD subscriber to DirecTV with two HDVR2's. I want to move now to HD but do not want to use what DirecTV is offering (their non-Tivo HD DVR receiver).


You know that to get 99.99% of DirecTVs HD programing you will have to get one of thair DVRs? The most HD channels you will get is 5 HD channels(IIRC) from the current DirecTV HD-Tivo. Right now it useless to get the HR10-250 for HD, if you want it for OTA channels then maybe(but not for DirecTVs HD)

Call up DirecTV and they might give you a free HDDVR upgrade.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

1. You only need the dish upgrade if you use DirecTV's HD DVRs. The HR10-250 will not benefit from the new dish because it cannot receive the HD channels beamed from the 99 and 103&#186; satellites. The HR10-250 only receives the older HD channels, and those are going away in the next several months. 

2. You should be able to add an HR10-250 to your account. Just be careful buying used equipment on eBay or Craigslist. Be sure that the seller provides the "Receiver ID Number" so that you can verify its subscription status by calling DirecTV yourself. They will not activate it if it's stolen or has an outstanding account balance.


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## SiliconTiger (Oct 17, 2009)

Thanks Enrique & litzdog911 for your replies.

Is there a list somewhere that I could see what channels I would be able to view in HD using the HR10-250 (which HD channels are on which sat position degree)?

And a new question-- I looked at my sat hookup and I've got an older dish (round, which I presume is 101 deg only) which was installed ~10 years ago. I currently have two co-ax wires running from the satellite to a 3x8 multiswitch. I presume that even with the HR10-250 that I would need an upgraded dish to receive any HD channels? Assuming so, and assuming DirecTV would install the new 5LNB Ka/Ku 'superdish', is it possible to only have two wires running to the 5LNB dish, and I could add a new multiswitch that is 'superdish' capable so that I don't need to run 4 wires up to the dish? Given my house's wiring, it would be pretty hard to run 4 wires up their cleanly, so hoping with a new multiswitch I can just use the 2 current wires I already have when I install the new 'superdish'.

Thanks for your help.


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## duanej (Oct 28, 2004)

I've got a HR-250 that I can sell you that works great (including the HDMI port). Send me a Private Message if you are interested.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

You'll need the 3-LNB Phase III dish to receive the 101, 110 and 119&#186; satellites. But there are only a few HD channels anymore .... 

70, HBO-East
72, ESPN2-HD
73, ESPN-HD
75, TNT-HD
76, HD Theater
79, HD Net

And these will likely be gone sometime in the next several months.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

SiliconTiger said:


> And a new question-- I looked at my sat hookup and I've got an older dish (round, which I presume is 101 deg only) which was installed ~10 years ago. I currently have two co-ax wires running from the satellite to a 3x8 multiswitch. I presume that even with the HR10-250 that I would need an upgraded dish to receive any HD channels? Assuming so, and assuming DirecTV would install the new 5LNB Ka/Ku 'superdish', is it possible to only have two wires running to the 5LNB dish, and I could add a new multiswitch that is 'superdish' capable so that I don't need to run 4 wires up to the dish? Given my house's wiring, it would be pretty hard to run 4 wires up their cleanly, so hoping with a new multiswitch I can just use the 2 current wires I already have when I install the new 'superdish'.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Like litzdog911 said, you'll need a 3-LNB Phase III dish to receive the 101, 110 and 119º satellites. If you want to go with the HR10-250 you will have to run a line to each tuner on the box. The only boxes that can run off of 1 wire/line is DirecTVs Boxs(HR2x and the R-22s(None of which are Tivos).

(IMO)My advice if you don't want to get DirecTVs new boxs, is for you to stay where you are(until the new Tivo comes out).

I don't think DirecTV will give you the 5LNB dish or Phase III dish for free without getting one of their boxs.

If I where you I'd get one of DirecTVs boxs(With the free dish upgrade) and take it for a test run*. I don't know what you've heard of it, but(IMO) it's a great box(I use it as my main receiver).

*You will have to get a 2 year contract, but that's not tied to the receiver just the account(So you can send back the receiver anytime you want.)


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

SiliconTiger said:


> I'm aware that DirecTV will again offer a Tivo-based HD DVR sometime in 2010 but in the interim I'd like to get started with the HR10-250.
> 
> Thanks for your input on the above!


I think you need to add the term "supposedly" to that sentence. There is no guarantee that there will be a new HD Tivo next year.

Why worry so much about it? The HR2x series are fine, problem free, just a different interface. As a former TiVo lover, at this point I will not go back, I doubt there is much of anything the supposed TiVo box will offer that I don't have now.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Matt L said:


> Why worry so much about it? The HR2x series are fine, problem free, just a different interface.


Tivos, including the DTivo HR10-250, are purchaser-oriented devices. You buy the thing, you use it to watch TV; if you're willing to do a little work, you can watch ALL the shows you have paid for at your convenience, pretty much unlimited. DirecTV (non-Tivo) DVRs put extreme limits on your ability to view all the shows you have paid for.

Right now the HR10-250 gives you the classic Tivo viewer-friendliness for DirecTV non-HiDef channels, plus off-the-air HiDef channels (the best quality HiDef available), plus half dozen or so satellite HiDef channels. It is one wonderful piece of gear for now, if you want to stick with DirecTV.

Will the upcoming DTivo have that kind of customer-friendliness? If so, lots of us will pick it up in a moment, because the combination of DirecTV and Tivo has been the best home entertainment experience ever available to viewers, and we were sorry to have seen DirecTV withdraw that experience from its customers. Hopefully, Happy Days Are Here Again.

If not, well the world has gone on and there are a multitude of non-DirecTV HiDef alternatives of maximum viewer flexibility. We hope for an acceptable DirecTV product out of nostalgia for the old DirecTV/Tivo combination, but if DirecTV wants to continue on its path of short-term profits and medium/long term irrelevance that's fine too.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Wil said:


> Tivos, including the DTivo HR10-250, are purchaser-oriented devices. You buy the thing, you use it to watch TV; if you're willing to do a little work, you can watch ALL the shows you have paid for at your convenience, pretty much unlimited. DirecTV (non-Tivo) DVRs put extreme limits on your ability to view all the shows you have paid for.
> 
> Right now the HR10-250 gives you the classic Tivo viewer-friendliness for DirecTV non-HiDef channels, plus off-the-air HiDef channels (the best quality HiDef available), plus half dozen or so satellite HiDef channels. It is one wonderful piece of gear for now, if you want to stick with DirecTV.
> 
> ...


All of this quote < Content. If you have a 5k TV why throttle it to pre-70's viewing format just becasue of a interface. As far as "happy days" that remains to be seen, until it shows up in quantity sometime next year is is vaporware. Still have a HR10 hooked up but it is on a 19 inch SD in the garage.

You may have "a multitude of non-directv options" but a majority of the people do not, cable or uverse here, both have serious limitations, one just sucks (cable) and the other only allows 2 HD streams at a time with a max of 4 streams, not acceptable either. Directv "short term" profit and market share has been going on for a very long time and is increaseing rather then decreasing as the naysayers are so apt to putting it


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

sjberra said:


> < content


My remarks refer to user access to ALL the DVR's content, not the user interface; I wasn't even thinking about that. I highly value that Tivo access, which the DirecTV DVR severely restricts. But you bring up an excellent point: the Tivo user interface is also very nice.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

sjberra said:


> You may have "a multitude of non-directv options" but a majority of the people do no


Almost everyone has options. They may reject some, for whatever reason.

Exception: DirecTV has the best live sports packages. That's a huge strength and there's really no comparable option for the all sports all the time kinda viewer.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Wil said:


> Tivos, including the DTivo HR10-250, are purchaser-oriented devices. You buy the thing, you use it to watch TV; if you're willing to do a little work, you can watch ALL the shows you have paid for at your convenience, pretty much unlimited. DirecTV (non-Tivo) DVRs put extreme limits on your ability to view all the shows you have paid for.


Extreme limits? In what way? Get real.

I can't say that my HR2x has ever stopped me from watching anything I wanted. All my HR2xs are networked. I have 90 minute buffers, I can watch anything I record on any of my Hr2x on any tv in any room, I can plug in a hard drive and have terrabytes of storage, I can play stuff on my computer. My Hr10-250 does none of this. I may prefer the guide on my tivo but in comparison to all I've gained I'll put up with the D guide.

Why I earth would I want to be stuck with 2 1/2 HD channels when for the SAME PRICE I can have 150? And when you add in all the OTA HD I get with my HR2x/AM21 it's a lot more.That is effectively what the HR10-250 offers - ESPN TNT and HD Net -- wow I'm impressed. No one knows if and when a new TiVo will be out. If you want to throttle back your viewing in the dim hopes of getting a new TiVo that is your right. I can't think of any reason for the life of me that you would but welcome to 1999.

If you are so enamored with the TiVo interface, you have the option of going to cable and owning all the HD TiVos you want. If they are so important to you why haven't you?


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Wil said:


> My remarks refer to user access to ALL the DVR's content, not the user interface; I wasn't even thinking about that. I highly value that Tivo access, which the DirecTV DVR severely restricts. But you bring up an excellent point: the Tivo user interface is also very nice.


sorry, the TIVO interface reminds me of the out of date Windows 3.0 GUI, clunky, bulky and the pits. Never made a point that the TIVO UI was very nice, it stinks

Guess we have a different expierence with the HR2X boxes, they are a lot more reliable then any of the HR10's that I had and have on my account. Last HR10 is relegated to the garage on a little 19 inch CRT SD TV, when it dies and is replaced under the PP it will be added to the others in the entertainment room


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Wil said:


> Almost everyone has options. They may reject some, for whatever reason.
> 
> Exception: DirecTV has the best live sports packages. That's a huge strength and there's really no comparable option for the all sports all the time kinda viewer.


Actuallly no, you are incorrect, not everyone has "choices' in non-ota programming, as far as sports go, that is not even an consideration for any "choices" that I have - I fall into the group that believe sports broadcast rank below the level of the Home Shopping Network channels - at least HSN's do something useful.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

Matt L said:


> Why I earth would I want to be stuck with 2 1/2 HD channels when for the SAME PRICE I can have 150? And when you add in all the OTA HD I get with my HR2x/AM21 it's a lot more.That is effectively what the HR10-250 offers - ESPN TNT and HD Net -- wow I'm impressed.


You have perfectly valid points to be made here, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to outright lie about the differences between the two units during your little rant. The HR10-250 currently has access to six HD channels, plus all of the same OTA stations as an HR2x with an added on AM21. And the HR2x still has nowhere near 150 HD channels, even counting all of the dozens of RSNs and PPV channels.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

whitepelican said:


> You have perfectly valid points to be made here, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to outright lie about the differences between the two units during your little rant. The HR10-250 currently has access to six HD channels, plus all of the same OTA stations as an HR2x with an added on AM21. And the HR2x still has nowhere near 150 HD channels, even counting all of the dozens of RSNs and PPV channels.


so he missed it by 20, oops. Would be suprised is those "six" channels will be around by the end of the year, then you have a great paperwieght for SD and what ever limited OTA HD that can be recieved. Again why even purchase a HD TV if you are not going to take advantage of it.

https://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/hd/difference

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/compare/compareChannels.jsp?hd=true


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

sjberra said:


> Actuallly no, you are incorrect, not everyone has "choices' in non-ota programming


I said "almost" everyone. I also said they might choose to reject one or more choices. Ignorance is a choice.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Wil said:


> I said "almost" everyone. I also said they might choose to reject one or more choices. Ignorance is a choice.


You are 100 percent correct on that, be it in programming or dvrs


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## SiliconTiger (Oct 17, 2009)

Enrique said:


> Like litzdog911 said, you'll need a 3-LNB Phase III dish to receive the 101, 110 and 119º satellites. If you want to go with the HR10-250 you will have to run a line to each tuner on the box. The only boxes that can run off of 1 wire/line is DirecTVs Boxs(HR2x and the R-22s(None of which are Tivos).
> 
> (IMO)My advice if you don't want to get DirecTVs new boxs, is for you to stay where you are(until the new Tivo comes out).
> 
> ...


Sorry I didn't mean this thread to degenerate into a Tivo vs DirecTV DVR argument, but alas...

Anyway, given the uncertainty of when Tivo will come out with their new HD DirectTivo to support all HD channels, I think in the near-term it makes the most sense for me to stick with my two SD DirectTivos and then add a new DirecTV HD DVR for all the HD channels. I have seen though on other posts that I need a specific satellite and multiswitch to allow me to do this? Are the 5LNB dishes compatible with the old SD directTIVOs? And what multiswitch would I need to support both my two SD DirectTivos and a new DirecTV HD DVR?

Thanks for your helpful insight.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

SiliconTiger said:


> Sorry I didn't mean this thread to degenerate into a Tivo vs DirecTV DVR argument, but alas...
> 
> Anyway, given the uncertainty of when Tivo will come out with their new HD DirectTivo to support all HD channels, I think in the near-term it makes the most sense for me to stick with my two SD DirectTivos and then add a new DirecTV HD DVR for all the HD channels. I have seen though on other posts that I need a specific satellite and multiswitch to allow me to do this? Are the 5LNB dishes compatible with the old SD directTIVOs? And what multiswitch would I need to support both my two SD DirectTivos and a new DirecTV HD DVR?
> 
> Thanks for your helpful insight.


A Slimline 5-lnb dish and a Zinwell WB68 multiswitch is all you need to support both the old and new DVRs. These are both pretty standard equipment right now. The DirecTivos will not support SWM (single wire multiswitch) configurations, so as long as an installer doesn't try to wrangle you into one of those, you will be OK.


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## SiliconTiger (Oct 17, 2009)

whitepelican said:


> A Slimline 5-lnb dish and a Zinwell WB68 multiswitch is all you need to support both the old and new DVRs. These are both pretty standard equipment right now. The DirecTivos will not support SWM (single wire multiswitch) configurations, so as long as an installer doesn't try to wrangle you into one of those, you will be OK.


Ok, thanks.

When using a Slimline 5LNB dish and a Zinwell WB68 multiswitch, will I need to use one of those BBC modules for the new DirecTV HD DVR (or more accuratelytwo, one for each input into the HD DVR) to get all the HD channels? Seems so -- I guess such a kludge is necessary to keep compatibility with the older SD DirecTivos (otherwise could use SWM)?


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

SiliconTiger said:


> Ok, thanks.
> 
> When using a Slimline 5LNB dish and a Zinwell WB68 multiswitch, will I need to use one of those BBC modules for the new DirecTV HD DVR (or more accuratelytwo, one for each input into the HD DVR) to get all the HD channels? Seems so -- I guess such a kludge is necessary to keep compatibility with the older SD DirecTivos (otherwise could use SWM)?


That is most likely correct. Though, I believe the most recent HD DVR (the HR23?) does not need the BBC modules.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

SiliconTiger said:


> Ok, thanks.
> 
> When using a Slimline 5LNB dish and a Zinwell WB68 multiswitch, will I need to use one of those BBC modules for the new DirecTV HD DVR (or more accuratelytwo, one for each input into the HD DVR) to get all the HD channels? Seems so -- I guess such a kludge is necessary to keep compatibility with the older SD DirecTivos (otherwise could use SWM)?


Note that DirecTV will provide the new dish, multiswitch, etc with free installation when you upgrade to HiDef equipment.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

SiliconTiger said:


> I think in the near-term it makes the most sense for me to stick with my two SD DirectTivos and then add a new DirecTV HD DVR for all the HD channels.


That's pretty much what I have done, using the DirecTV DVR for sports.

Try, as hard as you can, to get the HR20/700, the best of a bad lot. DirecTV won't help you there, but if you can get the CR to give you the name of the actual installing company, they may be able to get one for you from storage. I have had different models; again, try VERY hard for the 20.

I don't know if you're going to be able to get a free deal from DirecTV because you're not now a HiDef customer with an HR10-250. But if you've got some good history with them maybe you've got some credits. Find out. If you add the HR10-250 now, you may _become_ eligible for a free swap of the HR10-250 at some point (including the new dish installation you need). Although it's a swap deal, you can keep the HR10-250. Something else to try to find out about. CSR roulette is frequently rewarding; just bail out quickly and politely if you're not getting any results.

I wanted a DirecTV DVR very badly, for the sports, but I wasn't willing to pay a dime for the DVR or installation, and I wanted an HR20. It took some work, but that's what I got. Good luck.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

SiliconTiger said:


> Sorry I didn't mean this thread to degenerate into a Tivo vs DirecTV DVR argument, but alas...
> 
> Anyway, given the uncertainty of when Tivo will come out with their new HD DirectTivo to support all HD channels, I think in the near-term it makes the most sense for me to stick with my two SD DirectTivos and then add a new DirecTV HD DVR for all the HD channels. I have seen though on other posts that I need a specific satellite and multiswitch to allow me to do this? Are the 5LNB dishes compatible with the old SD directTIVOs? And what multiswitch would I need to support both my two SD DirectTivos and a new DirecTV HD DVR?
> 
> Thanks for your helpful insight.


Like was said everything will be provided to you by DirecTV. Just tell DirecTV you want to keep the old receivers and your set, the installer will come to your home and set up everything(No need to worry).


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

whitepelican said:


> You have perfectly valid points to be made here, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to outright lie about the differences between the two units during your little rant. The HR10-250 currently has access to six HD channels, plus all of the same OTA stations as an HR2x with an added on AM21. And the HR2x still has nowhere near 150 HD channels, even counting all of the dozens of RSNs and PPV channels.


Well, actually I have set one of my guide options to show only HD content. I went through and selected only the HD channels I get, since I'm using the AM21 my locals are factored in. Then screen displays 157 channels in that list. I stand by my statement.

As to my "Lie", I count HDNet as a 1/2 channel since 90% of their content is repeats of repeats. I don't sub HBO so I don't count that. And regardless 6 is pretty much nothing in todays world. If those 6 make you warm and fuzzy, along with your TiVO interface have at it.


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## SiliconTiger (Oct 17, 2009)

Wil said:


> Try, as hard as you can, to get the HR20/700, the best of a bad lot. DirecTV won't help you there, but if you can get the CR to give you the name of the actual installing company, they may be able to get one for you from storage. I have had different models; again, try VERY hard for the 20.


Interesting. Why is the HR20/700 "the best of a bad lot"? Why wouldn't I want a newer model like the HR21/HR22/HR23? I perhaps naively assumed the newer version the better, so glad to be enlightened! 

Thanks!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I disagree with Wil - I have an HR20 and an HR21 and find no difference in quality or usability. The HR20 is an older design with more discrete components. I would recommend an HR22 or HR23 for new users.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

SiliconTiger said:


> Interesting. Why is the HR20/700 "the best of a bad lot"? Why wouldn't I want a newer model like the HR21/HR22/HR23? I perhaps naively assumed the newer version the better, so glad to be enlightened!
> 
> Thanks!


I have a HR23-700 and there's nothing wrong with it.

There are some differences from the HR20's and newer ones(Some of the HR20's have on-board OTA tuners(with newer one you have to get one from DirecTV), and hard drive size(From 320GB to 500GB(In the newer ones)).

But after that they're all the same.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

Matt L said:


> Well, actually I have set one of my guide options to show only HD content. I went through and selected only the HD channels I get, since I'm using the AM21 my locals are factored in. Then screen displays 157 channels in that list. I stand by my statement.
> 
> As to my "Lie", I count HDNet as a 1/2 channel since 90% of their content is repeats of repeats. I don't sub HBO so I don't count that. And regardless 6 is pretty much nothing in todays world. If those 6 make you warm and fuzzy, along with your TiVO interface have at it.


If you're going to count every channel that shows repeats as 1/2 a channel then you can just chop that 157 in half as well. Still, DirecTV even in their "fudged" counting can only come up with 130 HD channels, so I'm pretty sure there aren't 157 in actuality.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Whatever.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

SiliconTiger said:


> Why is the HR20/700 "the best of a bad lot"? Why wouldn't I want a newer model like the HR21/HR22/HR23? I perhaps naively assumed the newer version the better


The only highest quality HiDef available on a DirecTV DVR is from locals OTA. The HR20/700 has a built-in tuner. The other models referred to will require an external tuner, which you will have to struggle to get for free, and may have to pay up to $85 for. I've tried to analyze why the price ranges from $50-$85 but, best I can figure, it's how stupid they think you are.

If you want to expand your storage capability (it's abysmal as delivered) you will find the HR20/700 works with a wide variety of drives and enclosures and combos. The others, not so much. As in, FAIL.

Beyond that, it's opinion. Mine is that the newer models are cheaper, chintzier, not as reliable. That's based on my own experience and others' anecdotal; as data not worth a lot, admittedly. Much as I loved the sports, as I read and talked to people, and tried out alternatives, I came to the conclusion that I wanted nothing but the HR20/700, ongoing, or I would bail. The HR20/700 is not awful. We don't like it, but it's endurable for the sports content.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Wil said:


> The HR20/700 is not awful. We don't like it, but it's endurable for the sports content.


I should have said for the LIVE sports content.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Wil said:


> The only highest quality HiDef available on a DirecTV DVR is from locals OTA. The HR20/700 has a built-in tuner. The other models referred to will require an external tuner, which you will have to struggle to get for free, and may have to pay up to $85 for. I've tried to analyze why the price ranges from $50-$85 but, best I can figure, it's how stupid they think you are.
> 
> If you want to expand your storage capability (it's abysmal as delivered) you will find the HR20/700 works with a wide variety of drives and enclosures and combos. The others, not so much. As in, FAIL.
> 
> Beyond that, it's opinion. Mine is that the newer models are cheaper, chintzier, not as reliable. That's based on my own experience and others' anecdotal; as data not worth a lot, admittedly. Much as I loved the sports, as I read and talked to people, and tried out alternatives, I came to the conclusion that I wanted nothing but the HR20/700, ongoing, or I would bail. The HR20/700 is not awful. We don't like it, but it's endurable for the sports content.


Sorry you are incorrect, your "highest quality HiDef available on a DirecTV DVR is from locals OTA" depends greatly on your reception capabilities and location, if your reception is fringe or overwhelming then you PQ will suffer remarkably. OTA where I live is not worth it, signal barely registers on a meter
There is no hard fast statement available for OTA as you so put it.

Hope you never have your leased unit fail - chances of getting the exact replacement unit is slim


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

sjberra said:


> Sorry you are incorrect, your "highest quality HiDef available on a DirecTV DVR is from locals OTA" depends greatly on your reception capabilities and location


A washing machine will not work without water. I don't regard that as a defect of the washing machine.

OTA requires an antenna. One rated for the location.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Wil said:


> A washing machine will not work without water. I don't regard that as a defect of the washing machine.
> 
> OTA requires an antenna. One rated for the location.


Again, not always a option, water can be piped in, OTA signal cannot if it just does NOT exist in the area that someone lives. period.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

sjberra said:


> Again, not always a option, water can be piped in, OTA signal cannot if it just does NOT exist in the area that someone lives. period.


True. If I somehow created the impression that everybody can get OTA TV, I should have said "most people" or something like that. There are also sometimes restrictions on condo dwellers, there are people who live in internal apartments where the landlord doesn't pipe in OTA; etc.

Point taken.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Or people like me who can get OTA, but only a handful of channels compared to what cable or satellite can provide. I have an amplified, long-distance antenna but I am 37 miles from the Boston station transmitters and can get only two out of five major channels at all clearly. I can get no end of religious or shopping channels, however.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Wow, that's too bad. I too have a high gain antenna and amp and get dozens and dozens of stations from 3 markets, problem is they all show the same stuff, but with varying degrees of quality. Some stations are truly inept when it comes to HD broadcasting.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Matt L said:


> Wow, that's too bad. I too have a high gain antenna and amp and get dozens and dozens of stations from 3 markets, problem is they all show the same stuff, but with varying degrees of quality. Some stations are truly inept when it comes to HD broadcasting.


Somebody must live in a hole. Used to live nearly 100 miles from Boston and with a good quality high gain fringe antenna (no amp) with some reasonable mast height I got them all. Turn the rotator and I got all NYC (though I had to do tricks to get WOR (9) because 8 from New Haven interfered.

People make choices. Ignorance is a choice.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Don't confuse high-power analog VHF stations with lower-power digital UHF stations. Reception of the latter is much more difficult at distance.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

stevel said:


> Don't confuse high-power analog VHF stations with lower-power digital UHF stations. Reception of the latter is much more difficult at distance.


You did not mean to say any of this, I know, because you are technically competent:

VHF=High Power.
Analog=VHF.
Analog=High Power.

UHF=Low Power.
Digital=UHF.
Digital=Low Power.

This is what I think to be the case:

Digital channels are a mix of VHF and UHF.
High/Low Power is a function of the transmitter, not the band.

The high end of the UHF band, which could be difficult to receive, is gone, not used for consumer TV anymore.

At a GIVEN power (high or low) a typical middle-of-the-band UHF station takes a higher gain antenna to get good reception than a typical middle-of-the-band VHF, if that's what you're trying to get at. But there's not a huge honking difference, in that respect, from say a channel 13 (VHF) to a channel 18 (UHF). There certainly are more digital channels in the lower/mid UHF band than in VHF, if that's what you're trying to get at.

My experience in getting Boston long-distance reception BTW, included channel 38 and I think 56 (it's been a long time), both well up in the UHF band. I know, from visiting, that channel 40 Digital out of somewhere in south central Mass. can be received perfectly on Long Island Sound in CT, 80-90 miles away (?). UHF (lower/mid-band) are robust. Antenna designs (if you've chosen wisely) are very efficient.

There are complicating variables, but in general high-quality digital reception requires less in term of signal strength than high-quality analog at the same frequency. In digital there is no picture degradation due to snow as the signal weakens, or multi-path ghosting. Once you've reached the threshold of a non-pixellating picture, strong signal/weaker signal, doesn't matter, the digital picture is PERFECT, as broadcast (unlike what you get from DirecTV).

OTA HiDef is the entertainment secret nobody wants you to know about. It's free, it's the best HiDef quality available (not processed/compressed or outright degraded into HiDef lite). Live sports is a problem, admittedly. Cable-only channels like USA, A&E, etc. have to have their content picked up by other means (e.g. Cable or ATT/Verizon), but, as you know as well as anybody: with a good OTA setup, a computer with internet capability, and RedBox/Netflix, etc., there is little need to be paying monthly fees to DirecTV.

If DirecTV at some point (as in the new DirecTV Tivo) gives you the kind of unfettered access to the programs that we get from Tivos (where once you've paid for the programming the shows are technically free of ANY USE RESTRICTIONS once you've done a little work up front, as I mentioned earlier), then I'm a DirecTV fan once again. Right now I feel I'm over a barrel because of the sports, I dislike being tied to DirecTV at all and will jump ship the moment I can.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I meant to say it all. At least by me, the digital TV stations are on UHF frequencies and are running at lower power than the old analog transmitters. Some have petitioned the FCC to move back to VHF and to raise their power.

My antenna is at the peak of my house, aimed at the Boston transmitters (which are west of Boston), but I can't get all the major channels. I'm not in a hole, but not really high up either.

My basic point was that many people can't just stick up an antenna and get all the channels they want.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I tried an antenna on my roof and could get one station well. But it seemed kind of a pointless since I get all the networks over sat anyway. It's not like I can drop sat service because so many stations (like espn, cnbc, etc.) aren't ota.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

! station in each of the 3 markets I get went to VHF, and I won't bother with them, and I have a suspicion that the bulk of the population that has had HD for years did not bother to add VHF, since prior to this ALL our Digital stations were UHF. No big loss, they are all on SAT, and duplicated for me.


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## mrfixit454 (Feb 9, 2004)

Yup.. about 3 of the stations in the LA area went back to VHF. I had been receiving all my HD stuff for the past 2+ years with my antenna in the same spot. When the switch came, I dropped a few channels and looked at antennaweb.org to see what frequencies the channels were being broadcast on. That is when I saw some went back to VHF. I had to rotate my antenna 25 degrees or so counterclockwise to get all the locals again.


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## bsdimp (Oct 30, 2009)

Just got the HR23, but kept the HR10-250 that I had for ages. It isn't really a HD receiver anymore, but it is faster than the really old GXCEB0T that bit the dust a little while ago... It is much nicer than the old GXCEB0T. However, the HR23 is nicer than the TiVo in a lot of ways, and has an interface the rest of the family can use more easily than the HR10. I upgraded to the 6.4a software, and will likely hack it with the zipper just as soon as I figure out the steps to do that. I may put a high gain antenna on it to get the locals in HD too. Haven't decided yet. Right now it is driving an old 36" SD TV that's about 10 years old and showing signs of dying...


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