# Who doesn't hate the new box?



## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

It seems like anytime I go to a forum for a product, everyone hates the subject matter. It could be a howard stern forum, or the roku forum, or single serve coffee forums, at times it seems as if everyone on the internet hates everything... 


I have never had a Tivo, I have a Roku player to play Netflix on my main tv. But my main tv is only 1080i, which is not supported by the Roku. I shut off my Direct TV for Roku over a year ago and have never looked back. I didnt even have OTA. But I have got so caught up on shows thanks to Netflix, I am now wanting to watch current run shows. So I went out and got a very nice outside antenna and amp, and now I get like 30 OTA channels with almost perfect reception. But I have no desire to be stuck to a tv time schedule.

So I started looking at Tivo back in December, right around the time of the Premiere manual mix up. I really wanted to buy the Best Buy $150 deal, but then I waited for the big announcement.

And I must admit, I was not blown away by the announcement, but to me it seems like in the future it will be sweeter. Anyhow, the point is, I have never had a Tivo, but I am going to buy a premiere, probably the XL. I thought about hitting up Ebay for the HD one, but I think they will probably add some stuff to the premiere in the future that will make it pretty sweet.

So there are like 20 threads on here about how much you all hate the new box.... is there anyone who does like it and is definitely going to buy it?


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I don't think it's as much that people hate it, but just that it isn't as revolutionary as the marketing makes it sound. There's no big incentive for a person to want to upgrade their current TiVos into new ones with huge new features. 

If you're a new customer, I have no doubt that you will like the new TiVo box. It looks like a great box. It's just that the current subscribers were just hoping for more. And like you said, it does seem like in the future it could be even sweeter.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Looks like an improvement to me over their existing offers. It was about what I expected (sans streaming - I really expected streaming MRV), though a different subscription model would have been helpful I think. I will likely buy one in June.

But people like to complain, so...


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

at the risk of sounding stupid, i don't know what MRV is


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Mike-Mike said:


> At the risk of sounding stupid, i don't know what MRV is


MRV = Multi Room Viewing. Currently, the TiVo allows you to watch something recorded on a different box by sending a copy of the program to the other box. The problem with this method is that some cable companies set the copy protection flag on certain channels so that this is not possible. This would not be an issue if the content was simply streamed from box to box instead of copied.


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## aggarcia (Aug 27, 2002)

I plan on buying 3 several of the new Premiere units in late May when I drop Directv. For current Tivo Hd owners, not worth the upgrade.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

Yeah, I would say in general that I like the Premiere.

I have three Series 2 boxes that I've been planning on upgrading to HD for a while now. I've held off on buying the Tivo HD box for two reasons: 1) I knew Tivo was working on a new Series 4 (it's been mentioned in their quarterly conference calls by their CEO for about a year); and 2) There are some bugs in the Tivo HD in dealing with analog channels, that I was afraid of encountering and that Tivo has never bothered to fix.

I don't believe the Premiere is revolutionary like Tivo marketing wants you to believe, but I think it will serve my needs just fine for the next 5 years or so (and should keep my wife and kids happy).

BTW, MRV is "multi-room viewing".


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## tburrel (Jun 9, 2007)

I certainly don't hate it- if my S3 dies tomorrow, I'll get one. I just was hoping for better- they seem to have focused on "fixing" some of the UI stuff at the cost of ignoring the back-end features (MRV, integration with home networked storage). They also overhyped this thing- it's an incremental upgrade, not the "revolutionary" change they hinted at.


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

Hate is a strong word. I don't hate it, I'm just very disappointed. It just feels like the pricing places TiVo in the premium range (as it always has been), but it doesn't feel like the new hardware is premium. I expected more from the hardware (3+ tuners, integrated wifi, moca, etc.) and I am disappointed in it.

Obviously the internals are much beefier than the old models and that will allow them to do much more with the software. Its just right now I don't see anything compelling enough for the price in the software package. Perhaps when they add some features in the coming months I will be more interested, but not at this time.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Mike-Mike said:


> So there are like 20 threads on here about how much you all hate the new box.... is there anyone who does like it and is definitely going to buy it?


first thing to realize is that no one can buy the box yet, heck reviewers do not even have their review box yet; so all posts are simply about what little we have seen of it.

second thing to realize is that indeed - haters seem to post more tenaciously than someone that likes a product or is just looking for some info. So this forum will always be skewed* and it would be a full time job to try and balance it out.

as to your question - yes, I have 2 TiVo HDs(one with OTA) that will stay in service and do everything they always did with the same simple speedy menus. Love my TiVo HDs. I also have a Series 2 DT (dual Tuner) with a cable box on it. That I will 'upgrade' to a Premiere and the kids can have the dual tuner for all the analog channels they like to record.

*the marketing hype was also a major bad move by TiVo inc. that was like gasoline on a fire around here


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

I like it except for dual tuners.

This is 2010. Dual tuners were 2002's idea. Competitors have 3, 4 and more tuners.

The rest of stuff is minor, but I would have liked to see more of a whole house solution.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

I don't hate it. It looks like a good product with all the issues in the previous model to boot. Oh and it's prettier.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

DancnDude said:


> I don't think it's as much that people hate it, but just that it isn't as revolutionary as the marketing makes it sound. There's no big incentive for a person to want to upgrade their current TiVos into new ones with huge new features.
> 
> If you're a new customer, I have no doubt that you will like the new TiVo box. It looks like a great box. It's just that the current subscribers were just hoping for more. And like you said, it does seem like in the future it could be even sweeter.


If we are to go by what others have said in this forum we shouldn't count on anything more being added to the s4. You should look at it as it stands right now before deciding to purchase.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> You should look at it as it stands right now before deciding to purchase.


+1 :up:


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> I don't hate it. It looks like a good product with all the issues in the previous model to boot. Oh and it's prettier.


Nah I think the Series 3 with the OLED display was prettier.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

It is just me and my six year old son at home, I have a tv in the main room, and he has a 13 in TMNT crv in his bedroom for his VSmile game system. I have the Roku on my main tv, but I am buying a lcd for the bedroom and will move my Roku to that, and put the Tivo on the main tv. 

for you people who mention all of these other Tivo's and TV's... you have to pay a tivo subscription for every box you have?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Raj said:


> I like it except for dual tuners.
> 
> This is 2010. Dual tuners were 2002's idea. Competitors have 3, 4 and more tuners.
> 
> The rest of stuff is minor, but I would have liked to see more of a whole house solution.


ok maybe tuners - but you need to clarify your statements

TiVo has 2 tuners for 
-OTA
- Digital
- analog
all in the boix with unified guide data you can record 2 things at once from nay combination of the above

MOXI has 3 digital tuners only - no OTA at all and a dongle you get seperately for 1 analog recording and you still stay in the record 3 things at once mode.

Dish has some tuner setup I forget details of - but since it is only DISH then it is basically saying 3 digital recordings at once. OTA is in there somehow though, I think.

AT&T has 3 or 4 - but again that is all digital and you are severely limited by bandwidth on number of HD at one time and reports are the HD is crummy

that leaves HTPC as the master of tuners and since it has all the CPU and memory resources and ability to let the hardware on the card itself do a lot of work then you can go nuts with tuners in an HTPC. 2 caveats here - no one has actually used the cable card tuners coming for Windows Media center so they are some what of an unknown and of course you pay for the power and flexibility in some combo of time and money.

in effect TiVo needs to drop analog if it is to add more 'tuners'. That is fine by me but that really needs to be a box that can be 2 way interactive with the cable company.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Raj said:


> Nah I think the Series 3 with the OLED display was prettier.


I got the farfignuton TiVo HD, you know, the I couldn't afford the BMW one.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

Stormspace said:


> If we are to go by what others have said in this forum we shouldn't count on anything more being added to the s4. You should look at it as it stands right now before deciding to purchase.


from what I read when the S3 was released first they didn't have Netflix, and it was added later, so why couldn't you see them adding things to Premiere later


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

I love the new Premier. I've stuck with my single external digital cable box controlled by the IR blasters from an S2 Tivo for over a year now waiting for a $299 40+ hr HD Tivo with cable cards. I arranged my season passes with network shows first and cable shows second to minimize conflicts in scheduling, but still miss about one show a month due to the IR blaster setup -- occasionally when I am watching and have no idea why the miss occurred and then the setup is fine for the next show. So, I will wait a few days but order the Premier and wait for it to arrive.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

I like the looks, price is a bit high for the storage.

The lack a streaming for MRV, and additional tuner is a bit lame.
I expected TiVo to best the competition which they have not.

That said, I have to upgrade my fathers two S2's so I guess this is the way to go. I have not tried a Moxi though, I am thinking about it.

- Rich


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

As a replacement for my S2, I love it.
My HD doesn't need replacing yet, and judging by the S2's quality, won't for quite some time.

Either way, I love it. The box is more sleek and looks to be a lot slimmer


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Mike-Mike said:


> from what I read when the S3 was released first they didn't have Netflix, and it was added later, so why couldn't you see them adding things to Premiere later


I was actually being facetious and practical at the same time. I do think TiVo will update the UI over time, especially with regard to money making partnerships like with Netflix. Others though have been railing against people that thought the S3 would get some improvements, telling them they shouldn't have expected anything new out of the box since TiVo isn't required to offer anything. The practical side tells me not to purchase a product based on past performance. Make certain the product has what you need right now before making a decision rather than what you hope it might get later since there is no guarantee what you find important will be the same as the people doing the development.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I like the Premiere box. The one thing I will miss from my S3 boxes is the OLED display. I use it on a daily basis to see the time and also what is being recorded.

But I decided to go all in with the Premiere and am getting six Premiere boxes and will be selling my three S3 and six TiVoHD boxes.


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

Stormspace said:


> The practical side tells me not to purchase a product based on past performance. Make certain the product has what you need right now before making a decision rather than what you hope it might get later since there is no guarantee what you find important will be the same as the people doing the development.


Exactly!
I bought my HD unit because I had bought a 1080i plasma and the s2 looked awful. I wanted HD, bought HD, and haven't looked back!

Buying another unit because you think it might do something some time in the future is rather ridiculous. Of course, if the company surprises you and does that something in the future, then wow, that's good, but never, ever expect it (unless they advertise that they will).

Tivo never claimed "we're going to rewrite the entire menu for s3", why expect them to?


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## twhiting9275 (Nov 17, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> But I decided to go all in with the Premiere and am getting six Premiere boxes and will be selling my three S3 and six TiVoHD boxes.


That's a lot of Tivos. One for every room in the house, two for the bathroom?


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Every single TiVo model has gotten at least one big software revision. Season Pass Manager, skip-to-tick, folders, TiVo-to-go, MRV, music, pictures, etc were all added after release. TiVo WILL update the S4 but there's no telling WHAT will be in that update.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

Stormspace said:


> I was actually being facetious and practical at the same time. I do think TiVo will update the UI over time, especially with regard to money making partnerships like with Netflix. Others though have been railing against people that thought the S3 would get some improvements, telling them they shouldn't have expected anything new out of the box since TiVo isn't required to offer anything. The practical side tells me not to purchase a product based on past performance. Make certain the product has what you need right now before making a decision rather than what you hope it might get later since there is no guarantee what you find important will be the same as the people doing the development.


like I said, I never had a Tivo before, and I was sold on the Tivo HD, so any improvements they made for the Premiere are just a bonus for me...

I am trying to decide between the Premiere and the XL... something in my brain always says the most expensive is the best, even though I know it's not the case.... but dammit, I keep telling myself if I am going to spent $300, i may as well bump up to the XL, instead of adding a My DVR Expander to the Premiere...

luckily i have a month to decide


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## i2k (Apr 3, 2008)

Raj said:


> Nah I think the Series 3 with the OLED display was prettier.


ditto.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Mike-Mike said:


> like I said, I never had a Tivo before, and I was sold on the Tivo HD, so any improvements they made for the Premiere are just a bonus for me...
> 
> I am trying to decide between the Premiere and the XL... something in my brain always says the most expensive is the best, even though I know it's not the case.... but dammit, I keep telling myself if I am going to spent $300, i may as well bump up to the XL, instead of adding a My DVR Expander to the Premiere...
> 
> luckily i have a month to decide


If the S4 works like past models you will be able to upgrade the HDD after your purchase for much less than the 200.00 more TiVo wants for the XL. (I'd wait to make certain though) If you get the cheaper box to upgrade you will be missing out on the THX certification stuff, so if that is important to you... Even if you do decide to go with the cheaper model and upgrade, I'd play it safe and upgrade after your warranty expires. Others may tell you differently.

Bottom line, if you have to have the extra space now and don't want to risk voiding your warranty, get the more expensive box.

Since you've never had TiVo before I'd highly recommend you research your cable provider on this forum to see what issues, if any the TiVo HD/Premere might have on it.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Why is no one happy that premiere runs on 20 watts of power?


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

i dont have cable, just OTA for me


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> I was actually being facetious and practical at the same time. I do think TiVo will update the UI over time, especially with regard to money making partnerships like with Netflix. Others though have been railing against people that thought the S3 would get some improvements, telling them they shouldn't have expected anything new out of the box since TiVo isn't required to offer anything. The practical side tells me not to purchase a product based on past performance. Make certain the product has what you need right now before making a decision rather than what you hope it might get later since there is no guarantee what you find important will be the same as the people doing the development.


Some examples of people assuming specific features were coming to the TiVo S3 platforms:
TiVo is "obviously going to upgrade the UI, the current stretched SD UI is just a stopgap" and "it's a no brainer for them to add QAM mapping, there's just no downside".

Well it turns out neither of those ever got added and some people have been very unhappy because it sounds from their posts like they purchased expecting this functionality as an free upgrade somewhere down the line.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

I love the Premiere. I'm only disappointed relative to the hype. Oh and maybe that they didn't at least announce a plan to resolve the CCI issue with streaming.

Tuners are a non-issue if we can get full remote control or cooperative scheduling and a streaming option. I'd rather see TiVo put money into that software than adding tuner hardware that many people don't need.

I will stick with my S3 until it dies or until the Premiere software becomes interesting enough. But I'll miss the OLED. Maybe I can find a cheap LCD picture frame and hack it to show what's recording.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

Current set-up of S2, Pioneer DVD S2, and THD with 1TB upgrade will stay until either streaming or tru2way is a reality and not just speculation. (Unless, of course, one of my current units dies.)


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## [email protected] (Jan 8, 2008)

I will probably buy one. If not now, then after one of my three year contracts are up.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I like the premiere, but I am not really excited about it. I definitely wouldn't say I hate it. My big problem is while all the extra features are nice I only use my TiVo for one reason. This is of course to record TV. While the potential for an improved transfer speed will be nice, it doesn't really sell me on the new unit. 

If they had simply announced a TiVo HD with 3+ tuners, 1tb of space, and a faster broadcom chip I would be more excited than I am now. Of the three main things, I got two, but those are easily outweighed by the desire for more tuners.


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## wp746911 (Feb 19, 2005)

I think the premiere is great- could be 'more great' but it is a good step forward. It is significantly more powerful than the original hds-I do expect tivo will increase the internet integration with time which is somethign I think they really built this box for- it runs java, has a fast processor, and has 2 way communication with the cable company- those are the key things to push it to the next level.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

tootal2 said:


> Why is no one happy that premiere runs on 20 watts of power?


That's good. (I wish it went down to almost 0 when not "in use".. yes, I know, currently Tivos are always recording, yadda yadda yadda.. In this respect, I wish it were more like a VCR and "shut down" when it wasn't recording something the user asked for..)

but seriously, even with my rant, I'm glad that they reduced the power consumption.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

i'm excited about it. in fact, after a couple days of reading about the new user interface and reflecting on what it means, i'm convinced that it is truly revolutionary. 

the current s3/thd presents everything backwards; it stems from the fact that tivo simply added function ("tacked it on" is probably more accurate) to an old user interface that did not mature as technology improved. until they added the search beta, content was fragmented by source. to watch a netflix movie, you had to go into netflix, have the movie added to your queue, and select it. to download an amazon movie, you had to find it in amazon and download it. to find a youtube video on a subject, you had to launch the youtube application and search. to add a wishlist on your favorite actor, you had to find the submenu with wishlists and add it manually.

the centralized searching that is now a core part of the new UI makes finding content, regardless of source, extremely easy. it seems as straightforward as typing it in. from one search (say for "lost" for instance), you can get a season pass for the final season, browse previous seasons and stream individual episodes off netflix, search for a specific actor in lost and see what other movies they are in (and possible download that movie from Amazon), start a wishlist for an actor or search Youtube for more videos featuring that actor, etc. the process is no longer fragmented.

the good news for those of us with s3/thd units, this search functionality was added (albeit slow) last year. and the more i play with it, the more i appreciate how it integrates all the key functions of tivo.

the thing that excites me the most about this new platform (series 4) is the potential. its the reason people got excited about the iphone and why the ipad, while disappointing at first, will probably revolutionize the tablet/ereader market. its a blank canvas for development. like or hate it, the new software will probably be more portable (can be more easily ported to cable company hardware), easier to develop for, and opens huge avenues for future innovation at tivo. i couldn't say the same thing for the staleness of the current software design of the series 3.


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## Bsteenson (Jul 30, 2000)

I am in the happy situation of just having purchased a new TiVo HD to accompany a new 55-inch screen (thank-you, tax refund). I am within the 30-day return for the new HD, so will be sending that back for a brand new Premiere. I'm excited about the new box, and wish I didn't have to wait until April to get it.

As far as Premiere vs. Premiere XL, the THX and the remote aren't that big of a deal to me (I'll probably get the qwerty remote when it becomes available, anyway), so it all comes down to storage.

A $200 premium for 1 TB storage vs. 320 GB just doesn't make sense to me. If it turns out that the Premiere is as easy to upgrade yourself as previous models it will be simple to drop in a 1TB (or maybe bigger?!) hard drive that can be purchased for well under $100.

Even if it isn't possible to upgrade it yourself, or it's too complicated, or you don't want to void your warranty, you can get a 1 TB My DVR Expander external eSATA drive from amazon.com right now for $129. That will give you the 320 GB drive in the unit PLUS 1 TB external storage for still far less than the cost of the XL, and it's all still under warranty and supported by TiVo if there are any problems. Seems to me that's the best way to go.


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

mattack said:


> That's good. (I wish it went down to almost 0 when not "in use".. yes, I know, currently Tivos are always recording, yadda yadda yadda.. In this respect, I wish it were more like a VCR and "shut down" when it wasn't recording something the user asked for..)
> 
> but seriously, even with my rant, I'm glad that they reduced the power consumption.


That would be interesting. Windows Media Center can wake up the PC from sleep to record and put itself back to sleep when done. It's a bit finnicky but you can get it to work. This would be a nice addition to TiVo in the future to help it with power consumption and being "green."


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

What I like is the actual look of the Premiere. I never liked the look of the HD(it's why I paid a premium to get my 2nd S3) but the new box vastly improves on styling. While it doesn't have the OLED that the S3 has it's still miles ahead of that blah look of the HD.


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## Ziggy86 (Jun 23, 2004)

How does the Premiere compare to what Moxi is offering?

I never saw a Moxi machine so I am curious if anyone has actually used one before.


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## steinbch (Nov 23, 2007)

Stormspace said:


> Others though have been railing against people that thought the S3 would get some improvements, telling them they shouldn't have expected anything new out of the box since TiVo isn't required to offer anything.


I think the biggest difference now is that people are expecting TiVo to add additional features to a platform that is no longer their flagship. TiVo is no longer concerned with selling Series3 boxes, so there isn't as much of a need to add new features (such as the HDUI) to them. I would expect that they will over time add features to the Series4 (such as Flash-based apps), but only until the Series5 is released.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Ziggy86 said:


> How does the Premiere compare to what Moxi is offering?
> 
> I never saw a Moxi machine so I am curious if anyone has actually used one before.


They are really radically different products. Moxi has a three tuner model and does not require a subscription. When you buy the box it is with "lifetime" service already included.

Moxi has the Moxi Mate which is a media extender that can be placed in other rooms in the home for playback of recorded content as well as streaming of live content off of one of the tuners.

Many of us were really hoping for some kind of competition in this area from TiVo but alas it is not going to happen (at least not right now).

It does appear that the TiVo interface is substantially better than Moxi and the TiVo of course is far more polished having been in the DVR game for 10+ yrs now.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

is Moxi very successful? I had never even heard of it until I started searching for more info on Tivo.... 


I am still torn on this issue about getting the XL... does anyone have the current XL and think the THX really makes a difference?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Mike-Mike said:


> is Moxi very successful? I had never even heard of it until I started searching for more info on Tivo....
> 
> I am still torn on this issue about getting the XL... does anyone have the current XL and think the THX really makes a difference?


Moxi doesn't appear to be successful at all, so it will come down to how big their bank balance is and how many financial backers they have to see if they can chip away at TiVo market share.

THX is really nothing other than certification, in all likelihood there is no electronic difference between the two boxes, they just paid to get the XL version through the THX certification process.

The THX version does have the video "optimizer" but I'm suspicious that there are no in-box controls for making the adjustments. You would make all the adjustments on your TV, which does me no good as I already have my TV calibrated to my Blu-ray player and would want to adjust the actual video output on the TiVo itself.

The only real difference I can ascertain between the two boxes is in recording capacity. 40 hours is not enough and I'm not sure how easy it will be to upgrade the drives in these new TiVos so I will probably just suck it up and buy the XL if I go with the new Premiere box.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

I was set on the XL, and then someone said you can use the My DVR expander, so in theory I could get the premiere and then add the MDE and still come out cheaper than the XL.... decisions decisions...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

jmpage2 said:


> The THX version does have the video "optimizer" but I'm suspicious that there are no in-box controls for making the adjustments. You would make all the adjustments on your TV, which does me no good as I already have my TV calibrated to my Blu-ray player and would want to adjust the actual video output on the TiVo itself.


Don't most TVs handle the adjustment per input? I swear on some of my TVs this has been the case so while the Blu-Ray input would be optimized the TV input wouldn't be. From the chat during the EngadgetHD TiVo podcast, there are supposed to be some calibration files on AVSforums that are compatible file formats with the TiVo so if you transfer those to use on your current TiVo you might be able to see if it makes a difference.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> Don't most TVs handle the adjustment per input? I swear on some of my TVs this has been the case so while the Blu-Ray input would be optimized the TV input wouldn't be. From the chat during the EngadgetHD TiVo podcast, there are supposed to be some calibration files on AVSforums that are compatible file formats with the TiVo so if you transfer those to use on your current TiVo you might be able to see if it makes a difference.


I run all of my audio sources, including the HDMI ones through a very nice Yamaha AVR, so unfortunately this won't work out for me. I would have to split the HDMI and send it to the AVR for audio output as well as sending it to the TV.

HDMI splitters are notoriously flakey so I would rather not go this route.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Don't most TVs handle the adjustment per input? I swear on some of my TVs this has been the case so while the Blu-Ray input would be optimized the TV input wouldn't be. From the chat during the EngadgetHD TiVo podcast, there are supposed to be some calibration files on AVSforums that are compatible file formats with the TiVo so if you transfer those to use on your current TiVo you might be able to see if it makes a difference.


I don't have HDNet anymore so I don't know if they still do this, but they used to broadcast a little 5 minute or so long show of nothing but calibration materials. I recorded that and used it for calibrating my Series 3.

Of course, you can probably just rip a calibration disc and transfer that from the PC to the TiVo.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

When I first looked at what TiVo had announced, I was disappointed. The marketing claimed a major revolutionary breakthrough; the reality of the product seemed to be incremental improvements. But after spending a couple days at looking at those improvements, I found myself feeling much more positive about the S4 and ordered a XL. There are many improvements in the S4 over the S3 & HD boxes of which I have three and I've always liked the S3/HD models a lot. Maybe the S4 doesn't have three or four tuners, internal switched digital or TiVo streaming (yet), but it's definitely a major improvement and the new interface and software base suggest it'll serve well as a platform for future enhancements. TiVo's marketing hype could stand a bit of work however; it's resposible for much of the negative posting reactions.


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## charms (Jan 19, 2005)

Mike-Mike said:


> I was set on the XL, and then someone said you can use the My DVR expander, so in theory I could get the premiere and then add the MDE and still come out cheaper than the XL.... decisions decisions...


Yeah, but given the choice between a single internal drive and the external MyDVR, I'm always going to pick the bigger internal drive. I don't know if TiVo has fixed their update procedures (or whatever the f*$%ing problem was), but there were a lot of reports here of bricked 500GB MyDVRs and, err, contentious divorces.

Happened to me. I bought a MyDVR for my THD soon after it came out and it divorced itself within 6 months: all recordings lost immediately after a software update, TiVo wouldn't even boot. Pulled the plug on the external, TiVo booted right up. Hooked the drive up to my computer and repeated deep scans found absolutely nothing wrong with it, still running as an overpriced backup drive on my PC. So chalk it up to just a FUBAR connection to the TiVo and a bad upgrade. Did an internal 1TB upgrade on the THD and have been running strong for over 15 months. Just my anecdotal experience.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jmpage2 said:


> I run all of my audio sources, including the HDMI ones through a very nice Yamaha AVR, so unfortunately this won't work out for me.


This reminds me of a random thought I had when configuring my A/V setup.

Is there enough ID data sent over HDMI for a TV to recognize individual devices _through_ a receiver? Could a TV be build that allowed you to calibrate per deviceID (assuming HDMI has such a concept) rather than per input?


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## bferrell (Jun 22, 2005)

tootal2 said:


> Why is no one happy that premiere runs on 20 watts of power?


Why would I care?


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## brewman (Jun 29, 2003)

The only emotion about the Premiere that I have is apathy. 

If it had introduced some new "gotta have" features that the S3/HD didn't have then I would probably have been an early adopter. As it is the only way I'll ever buy one is if I have to replace one of my existing TiVos (S3 and two HDs).


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## suzook (Oct 22, 2006)

I like it....I am using my discount to get one, and gonna move my S3 to my bedroom. I am not sure what people expected? Tivo WAS NOT about to change the ui too much, because thats what MOST people are used too. I am happy it will be in HD, along with some of the little enhancements.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

suzook said:


> I like it....I am using my discount to get one, and gonna move my S3 to my bedroom. I am not sure what people expected? Tivo WAS NOT about to change the ui too much, because thats what MOST people are used too. I am happy it will be in HD, along with some of the little enhancements.


I think people are more disappointed with only the change to the UI and the fact they really didn't add anything to the hardware or truly game changing that people have asked for years. Yeah they finally added a free space indicator for those that wanted it and now picture in most menus if not all for those that wanted it.

The commonly requested things they didn't add seem to outweigh the things they added which based off this rate we will see in another 5 years or so when they are commonplace everywhere else.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> The commonly requested things they didn't add seem to outweigh the things they added which based off this rate we will see in another 5 years or so when they are commonplace everywhere else.


I for one, think they should wait on adding hardware 'features' until tru2way is part of the mix. More tuners are like more money - of course more is better - but what really is the more tuner competition MOxi with 3 digital tuners and no OTA , Uverse and DISH - neither of which TiVo can sell for and then HTPC in the form of the yet to be released cable card tuners that complete Media Center. No one is going to compete with a PC that can be configured in an infinite number of ways, even after the initial sale so why bother there.

More tuners would clearly sell more upgrades from us - but does TiVo gain really from just bring the core folks along yet again

or should TiVo really look at price and just stick with the 2 tuners most folks get from cable already. Hell TiVo can barely get folks to understand having a DVR, ket alone needing more than 2 tuners. I can hear Grump Grampa saying "I can only watch one thing at a time, what do I need 2 tuners for?"


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I am not even necessarily talking about hardware though. 

One huge thing TiVo could do is simplify the recording process and organization of season passes. I still have to explain to my mom why it didn't record one show and instead recorded another. She has been using a TiVo for so long now she doesn't know what time much less what night her favorite shows are on, yet somehow she is supposed to know the best way to organize her shows while looking at a list.

If they need inspiration they should look at 7MC. It walks you through conflict resolution which is flagged in the scheduled recordings (to do list) screen the same as it is flagged on her Fios DVR. 

At the same time this is something that could and should be added to the website. It should take you with baby steps through organizing your season passes and also offer an advanced option for those who know the order. Then it could even upload and fix the order on your TiVo for you or even initially display a print out you can use in front of your Tivo to organize your season passes.

For example. you add your first season pass for The First 48 which is on 9-10 on Thursday night on A&E. You then add your second season pass CSI which is also on at the same time on CBS. You then add your third season pass for Grey's Anatomy which is also on the same time. Either the TiVo or on TiVo.com it should tell you that the First 48 usually has repeats and would you like to place the First 48 after CSI and Grey's anatomy. 

If TiVo really wants to reinvent/improve the DVR, improve the basics which require the users to know the info TiVo and TiVo.com already have. Yes I may prefer the First 48 over Grey's Anatomy, but Grey's Anatomy doesn't repeat. Also I have no problem with limiting the guide to 12 days out, but I should be able to add shows as a season pass that are upcoming. It doesn't have to schedule the recording, but with TiVo grouping all the data together I should be able to set recordings for future shows.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> For example. you add your first season pass for The First 48 which is on 9-10 on Thursday night on A&E. You then add your second season pass CSI which is also on at the same time on CBS. You then add your third season pass for Grey's Anatomy which is also on the same time. Either the TiVo or on TiVo.com it should tell you that the First 48 usually has repeats and would you like to place the First 48 after CSI and Grey's anatomy.


I thought the TiVo automatically picked the repeat of The First 48 no matter what priority it has, since Grey's Anatomy and CSI are not repeated, but The First 48 is and it sees this when you set the SP.

I could've sworn that's how it works, but I probably remember wrong. if it doesn't, you're right that it should.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

MickeS said:


> I thought the TiVo automatically picked the repeat of The First 48 no matter what priority it has, since Grey's Anatomy and CSI are not repeated, but The First 48 is and it sees this when you set the SP.
> 
> I could've sworn that's how it works, but I probably remember wrong. if it doesn't, you're right that it should.


Nope it takes the list in the order you set it which in my mom's case, as I imagine a lot of people do with their cable dvrs, is the order they added the show. Of course depending on the DVR it is added to the top or to the bottom of the list.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Nope it takes the list in the order you set it, which in my mom's case as I imagine a lot of people do with their cable dvrs and just leave it in the order they added the show.


OK, I probably remember wrong because I have always added them in the order so a network show has higher priority than a cable show for this reason. It would indeed be good to have a notification for these cases.

These days though I simply don't care about conflict resolution since I don't have cable and watch the shows online anyway.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

jmpage2 said:


> They are really radically different products. Moxi has a three tuner model and does not require a subscription. When you buy the box it is with "lifetime" service already included.
> 
> Moxi has the Moxi Mate which is a media extender that can be placed in other rooms in the home for playback of recorded content as well as streaming of live content off of one of the tuners.
> 
> ...


How radically different is Moxi from Tivo?

I guess you can say this..

One has 3 tuners, live streaming to rooms, online scheduling, HD interface, DLNA, Hulu, (MOXI)

While the other has 2 tuners, multiple subscriptions required for a crippled MRV, and as of recently just got a HD interface (TIVO)

There is no competition between Moxi and Tivo because Tivo FAILED to deliver with the primere. Moxi is way better than Tivo if you have multiple rooms.

As for the more polished interface? MOXI had a HD interface for a long time buddy... and they won an emmy for it.

Check mate.


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## Interactive (Jan 17, 2003)

jmpage2 said:


> It does appear that the TiVo interface is substantially better than Moxi and the TiVo of course is far more polished having been in the DVR game for 10+ yrs now.


What is this based on? What was considered a "polished" interface 10 years ago, looks outdated and lame in today's world where my smartphone has 10 times the functionality of a desktop device and my 7 year old uses my iphone all day long. Before the flaming, I'm not trying to compare the functionality of Tivo to my iphone, I'm just saying we've become accustomed to much slicker, more capable interfaces on our systems these days.

I'll admit I haven't used a Moxi box yet, but looking at nothing more than the videos of each product (and having 8 years experience with Tivo), I think the Moxi interface looks awesome. Provides the exact detail I want, more modern look, and certainly looks snappier from a performance perspective. Add to this the multi-room approach they've taken, their support for nearly all of the online services (Netflix-type stuff), and no subscription....can you really say it's not a viable contender?


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

jmpage2 said:


> Moxi doesn't appear to be successful at all, so it will come down to how big their bank balance is and how many financial backers they have to see if they can chip away at TiVo market share.


Moxi is own by Arris (Market Capitalization of over 1 billion dollars) so they should be financially sound.

Moxi haven't really have the customer base yet... but since Tivo is shrinking they can meet in the middle.

Kind of funny how Tivo Premiere gave Moxi more attention. That is how ironically successfully Tivos PR campaign went with a crappy device.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> How radically different is Moxi from Tivo?
> 
> I guess you can say this..
> 
> ...


Moxi fanboy.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

oh.. the Tivo Fan boys will want you to think that Tivo is still way better than Moxi. The facts are that is no longer the case

Moxi have features that Tivo can not match. (3 Tuners, Live Streaming, DLNA, easy upgrades)

If you want want unbiased opinions.. see the Moxi thread at AVS Forums.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1095015


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> Moxi fanboy.


I think I am getting there.....

More so.. just to keep the facts straights when comparing Tivo to Moxi.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

The "problem" with Moxi is that it's still somewhat of a DIY solution... you need to set up PlayOn or similar on your PC in order to get the Internet content onto it. While that is attractive to many and gives more flexibility, it is also more of a barrier for most people. TiVo is trying to reach a different market. Whether they succeed or not (or whether that market actually exists or not) remains to be seen.

Of course, Moxi is not an option for me anyway since I use OTA.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

fatlard said:


> Moxi have features that Tivo can not match. (3 Tuners, Live Streaming, DLNA, easy upgrades)
> 
> If you want want unbiased opinions.. see the Moxi thread at AVS Forums.


I hate the UI which is a deal breaker for me. Also if I am going to have another box in another room I want it to be able to record, watch live tv, and stream/transfer. The Moxi mate can't record since it has no tuners so this doesn't help. Also with Moxi it doesn't look like I could order 2 Moxi 3 tuner units to share shows across my network since they come with Moximates.

I don't see how a Moxi thread would be any more unbiased than a TiVo thread. They are both going to have their own biases.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

MickeS said:


> The "problem" with Moxi is that it's still somewhat of a DIY solution... you need to set up PlayOn or similar on your PC in order to get the Internet content onto it. While that is attractive to many and gives more flexibility, it is also more of a barrier for most people. TiVo is trying to reach a different market. Whether they succeed or not (or whether that market actually exists or not) remains to be seen.


Tivo and Moxi are both DVRs right? That is their main job. At the end of the day, you want to record shows on TV and watch show from recorded tv.

Does Tivo or Moxi do a better job? how about in multiple rooms?

and your answer is....


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> oh.. the Tivo Fan boys will want you to think that Tivo is still way better than Moxi. The facts are that is no longer the case
> 
> Moxi have features that Tivo can not match. (3 Tuners, Live Streaming, DLNA, easy upgrades)
> 
> ...


There's actually one feature that TiVo does that trumps anything (else) the Moxi can do for me, and is an absolute dealbreaker: receive OTA broadcasts.

With me being OTA only:
3 tuners gets me nothing if the Moxi tunes nothing.
Live streaming gets me nothing if there is nothing live or recorded to stream.
Online scheduling (which TiVo also has) buys me nothing if there is nothing to tune.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

fatlard said:


> Tivo and Moxi are both DVRs right? That is their main job. At the end of the day, you want to record shows on TV and watch show from recorded tv.
> 
> Does Tivo or Moxi do a better job? how about in multiple rooms?
> 
> and your answer is....


Well, since Moxi doesn't do OTA it's hypothetical for me anyway.

Yes, they are both DVRs, but clearly TiVo is pretty much done with that aspect of development. I hope they get streaming though, since it would solve a lot of the problems with copy protection.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I hate the UI which is a deal breaker for me. Also if I am going to have another box in another room I want it to be able to record, watch live tv, and stream/transfer. The Moxi mate can't record since it has no tuners so this doesn't help. Also with Moxi it doesn't look like I could order 2 Moxi 3 tuner units to share shows across my network since they come with Moximates.
> 
> I don't see how a Moxi thread would be any more unbiased than a TiVo thread. They are both going to have their own biases.


The Moxi Mate cannot record yet. However, it is a feature that was promised via a post on that thread. In a future update, they will allow you to record and delete from the Moxi Mate.

Yes you can order 2 Moxi 3 Tuners and all shows will be integrated on one list.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Well, since Moxi doesn't do OTA it's hypothetical for me anyway.
> 
> Yes, they are both DVRs, but clearly TiVo is pretty much done with that aspect of development. I hope they get streaming though, since it would solve a lot of the problems with copy protection.


One can only hope that Moxi or Tivo come up with the perfect DVR....

Hopefully having two standalone competing DVR makers might help make that a possibility.

Tivo has been alone at the top for too long. With alternatives, things can only get better.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

fatlard said:


> The Moxi Mate cannot record yet. However, it is a feature that was promised via a post on that thread. In a future update, they will allow you to record and delete from the Moxi Mate.
> 
> Yes you can order 2 Moxi 3 Tuners and all shows will be integrated on one list.


Then they added it separately since last I looked. Previously when I looked the only option was $799 for the Moxi bundle but maybe I am thinking of the mate.

I don't see how the Moxi Mate would record unless it has tuners and a cable card slot also. It may very well have this since I quit looking at the Moxi early on purely due to the UI.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> Then they added it separately since last I looked. Previously when I looked the only option was $799 for the Moxi bundle but maybe I am thinking of the mate.
> 
> I don't see how the Moxi Mate would record unless it has tuners and a cable card slot also. It may very well have this since I quit looking at the Moxi early on purely due to the UI.


Sorry, let me clarify. A new future update will be allow the Moxi Mate to schedule and delete recordings on the Main Moxi


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Gotcha. Also it looks like 3/1/10 is when they announced the 3 tuner was available by itself so I am not surprised I hadn't seen it.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

fatlard (funny name) do you work for Moxi? you seem to hate Tivo and love Moxi... why would you be in a Tivo forum then? 


like the above posters, I am only OTA, so Moxi is useless to me... 


and just as a general comment... a lot of people on these boards say it should just be a DVR and that's what's important... having Netflix is what sealed the deal for me... that's the reason I began looking into Tivo in the first place... I am very excited about the internet content... currently all I have is OTA and a Roku to watch Netfllix/Amazon.. I want a DVR, but I also want Netflix on my main tv...


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Mike-Mike said:


> fatlard (funny name) do you work for Moxi? you seem to hate Tivo and love Moxi... why would you be in a Tivo forum then?
> 
> like the above posters, I am only OTA, so Moxi is useless to me...
> 
> and just as a general comment... a lot of people on these boards say it should just be a DVR and that's what's important... having Netflix is what sealed the deal for me... that's the reason I began looking into Tivo in the first place... I am very excited about the internet content... currently all I have is OTA and a Roku to watch Netfllix/Amazon.. I want a DVR, but I also want Netflix on my main tv...


Nope. I do not work for Moxi nor have stock in Arris. I had owned several Tivo (Series 1 lifetime, Series 2 lifetime, Tivo HD life) and help 2 other buy Tivo HD.

I do not hate Tivo. I just like Moxi and it is live streaming better than Tivo.

I rather people be informed of available options and not just get info from Tivo Fanatics who bash anything that is not TIVo


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I rather people be informed of available options and not just get info from Tivo Fanatics who bash anything that is not TIVo


I think you are mistaken. TiVo fanatics here do not bash anything that is not TiVo. I believe TiVo fanatics bash others _that come to a TiVo forum_ and bash the TiVo, and defend the features that TiVo has to offer. I don't believe there are any "Moxi/Boxee/Popcorn Hour/whatever Sucks" threads here at TCF.

Justifying talking about other platforms by "informing others" is a weak argument. If folks want to learn about the TiVo, they come here or tivo.com. If that want to learn about the Moxi, let them go to a Moxi forum or moxi.com (or wherever). If they want a comparison between the platforms, let them go to AVS or other "neutral" sites.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

what is AVS? sorry for my noob-ness


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Mike-Mike said:


> what is AVS? sorry for my noob-ness


Sorry.

It is a forum dedicated to audio visual stuff.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1095015


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

tootal2 said:


> Why is no one happy that premiere runs on 20 watts of power?


what?!?!?! there's no cusinart fusion generator in it like back to the future?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I rather people be informed of available options and not just get info from Tivo Fanatics who bash anything that is not TIVo


Then in the spirit of full disclosure when you talk about 3 tuners you should point out this caveat:

"Some cable companies use a technology called Switched Digital Video to transmit TV stations. If your cable provider uses Switched Digital Video, you will need to use an SDV adapter. Some cable providers only support two tuners with their SDV adapters. Please contact your cable provider to find out if you live in an SDV area and how many tuners their adapter supports."


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> Sorry.
> 
> It is a forum dedicated to audio visual stuff.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1095015


Pretty weak, dude.

A (much) better link for what I was referring to: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17063966#post17063966


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