# Battlestar Galactica - 1/27/06 - "Black Market"



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Just wanted to start out with a note from the podcast...

Moore dislikes this episode. Just didn't turn out well, he thought. But he ultimately blames himself. 

At least he's honest...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Remove all the dwelling Lee did in those daydream sequences and I really enjoyed the episode. There've certainly been worse.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I've never been a big fan of the nonlinear narrative. It's rarely the case that it's an improvement over the straight narrative. Usually, it's just distracting and prevents the dramatic tension from developing properly, as was the case in this episode, I thought.

A major problem was that this storyline really needed to be a multi-parter. I love the idea of exploring the development of a blackmarket within the fleet, but there just wasn't enough time to do that here. Nothing was really developed. Not the racket boss and his organization. Not the captain's relationship with the prostitute. Not the relationship of the blackmarket with the authorities. The writers only had enough time to create shallow stereotypes instead of characters.

It also struck me as odd that there would be such a large supply of children for for the sex trade. I guess they wanted to make the racket boss more unlikable and they were afraid that making him a mere bootlegger wouldn't work, so they increased his product range. Too bad. A less sociopathic, more politic racketeer would have been far more interesting. In fact, they already had the perfect character to head that up in Zarich. Maybe the writers need to fill a bodybag quota, but didn't want to kill of Zarich just yet?

Maybe they'll come back to it later and fill us in on the fleet's trade policies and supply policies and the politics and red tape involved in all of that. I'd like to see it.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

This episode didn't do it for me at all.

I'd actually say this was the least interesting BSG yet.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

was there ANY doubt that Lee would shoot him? This is the first ep that i didn't like...what happened to Duala and Billy? when did this thing with Lee start? 

the ep ended almost in mid-conversation...like they ran out of time and jus cut in mid-sentence... 

very strange ep...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

OK, now that I've seen it, I have to say that for the first time watching this show, I was really watching the clock. I have to agree with Moore, this one just didn't seem to fit.

I had only listened to the first couple minutes of the podcast before seeing the show, but was quite surprised when he led off by saying that this commentary would be different, as it would be an analysis of a show that didn't work. I'm actually more interested to go back and hear the rest of his thoughts on this one than the standard commentary on a regular show...


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

I haven't really liked any of season 2a, so far. More of the same


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

This episode was pretty dark.

I guess that, in the new BSG, they're not calling these women "socialators" any more.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

My problem with the episode is that too much of Apollo's behavior came out of the blue--he's been hanging out with hookers? He had a lost love he's never gotten over? He's a murderer? I used toi have a lot of faith that the makers of this show knew what they were doing--that they "have a plan"--but with the networking fiasco, the fiber-optic blunder, and now this, it's looking more and more as if they;re making it up as they go along, and not thinking too much as they do it.

Still a very, very good show. But no longer a great one.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Man, I really must be in the minority. I loved this ep.....like "The Shield" in outer space.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> Man, I really must be in the minority. I loved this ep.....like "The Shield" in outer space.


I really wonder how much hearing Ron Moore didn't like it affected people's opinions of the show if they heard them first.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I found this episode to be boring as hell. When it was over I felt like I had watched the B5 episode "Grail".


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dswallow said:


> I really wonder how much hearing Ron Moore didn't like it affected people's opinions of the show if they heard them first.


Valid to wonder, but in my case, I really was curious if my opinion would be different than his and I believe I honestly went into the epsode with an open mind. I just don't believe my reaction would have been different.

Probably only a handful of people read that first, as I spoilered the first mention and didn't post this thread until less than 1 hour until the show...

It felt to me that this show crammed in the whole Black Market issue in a nice compressed tidy time frame. It's the kind of thing that we should have seen developing for a while. It just really felt forced to me, like they said "hey, this is a neat angle to explore, but we've go to do it and wrap it up in one episode."

The boss seemed like a cliche to me. The flashback scenes were so devoid of context that I was annoyed by them.

Perhaps I was also annoyed by the complete attention to the Black Market and the absence of substance in other areas, such as the Cylons, Sharon, the baby, the quest for Earth, etc. Usually that doesn't bother me, but what they did focus on just wasn't holding my attention.

I haven't gone back to listen to the rest of the commentary for the details, I only heard the intro that summarizes the fact that he was disappointed.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I welcome storylines that don't focus on the Cylons and focus on the lives of the humans as they try develop a new society. Many great stories possible there. But, they have to commit more than one-off episodes to those storylines. I guess they're not willing to do that.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I welcome storylines that don't focus on the Cylons and focus on the lives of the humans as they try develop a new society. Many great stories possible there. But, they have to commit more than one-off episodes to those storylines. I guess they're not willing to do that.


I guess my preference would have been to have this be a secondary story arc. Something that could develop over time before coming to a head.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

I didn't think this was a great episode, for reasons someone mentioned above. All the stuff about Apollo having a relationship with the hooker & him having a lost love (they split b/c she wouldn't have a baby, or couldn't?) just seemed kinda out of the blue.

That said, it was still a decent episode. Better than 90% of everything else out there.

EDIT: I agree with Hefe. This whole plot line should have been included, in bits & pieces, with other episodes.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

dswallow said:


> I really wonder how much hearing Ron Moore didn't like it affected people's opinions of the show if they heard them first.


Guilty as charged! I read the first post in here (the only one at the time) and then watched the episode. I, too, tried to keep an open mind and *wanted* to like it because he didn't. But that didn't work.

I certainly didn't hate the episode, but like others have said, Apollo's actions and backstory seemed completely out of the blue. Almost as if this was about an Apollo from an "Alternate" universe.

Did we see flashes of the blond lady from Apollo's past the first time we endured his free float in space?


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## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

Um, , , , yeah, what you guys said.

Dualla is confusing me a bit. Either get it on with Billy or get it on with Lee. Of course, IF she were a spylon, both of these people hang around great power  

So who's in charge of Pegasus now? Was that ever determined. Line of command and all that, or is it just a floating free for all?

No real follow ups to the Prez. blood story, I guess that's OK, but seeing as though once again, time has passed, I would have suspected more.


Still waiting for Fridays, but losing that edge.


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## MassD (Sep 19, 2002)

I liked it actually... It can't be all-cylon-all-the-time. That would make it one dimensional. This episode wasn't much at all about the black market, it was all about Apollo.

I didn't see Apollo's behavior as coming out of the blue. He's been struggling with his inner demons since right from the beginning. We saw it in the pilot movie, we saw it when he broke away from Adama and backed the President. After his close brush with death during the battle to destroy the Ressurection Ship, he has aparently lost what little vitality he had left. When he went to the Prometheus, he didn't really care if he lived or not.

Getting rejected by the prostitute, the flashbacks to his lost love, the cold response to Dee, and seeing the erosion of civility on the Prometheus... He has pretty much given up.

The title of this episode was quite fitting. It's the darkest treatment of any character yet. The series is about hope vs. dispair.... and Apollo has aparenty given in to the latter.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

i kind of liked some of this episode. There were some subtle nods to the original series, like Siobhan==Cassiopeia, Pya==Boxey. I also liked Roslin's giving an "out" to Baltar without revealing her hand.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> A major problem was that this storyline really needed to be a multi-parter. I love the idea of exploring the development of a blackmarket within the fleet, but there just wasn't enough time to do that here. Nothing was really developed. Not the racket boss and his organization. Not the captain's relationship with the prostitute. Not the relationship of the blackmarket with the authorities. The writers only had enough time to create shallow stereotypes instead of characters.


Agreed. Would have been better to just make the blackmarket another side plot that moves along for several episodes. As it turned out, it was just a nother "story of the week" episode. And previews for next week look the same.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

MassD said:


> I liked it actually... It can't be all-cylon-all-the-time. That would make it one dimensional. This episode wasn't much at all about the black market, it was all about Apollo....


Exactly why I liked it, too. Great foray into areas we never even may have suspected. This is how BG keeps its edge.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

ovr8ted said:


> Dualla is confusing me a bit. Either get it on with Billy or get it on with Lee.


Billy & Lee together is fine with me.


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## MassD (Sep 19, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Exactly why I liked it, too. Great foray into areas we never even may have suspected. This is how BG keeps its edge.


Indeed. It's not really so much about the storylines as it is about the characters. Every so often, you need to break away from the main arc and delve into one character.

As an aside.. am I the only one that noticed that the all three shows in the Sci-Fi Friday lineup dealt with giving the viewers an insight into one of the characters while covering almost nothing in each of the series main story lines?

Cam in SG-1, McKay in SGA, and Apollo in BG...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Duala was not kissing Billy at the end, was she? I thought it was someone else (which made it even more silly, in my view)... 

I guess it's just a different approach to things...I like for side stories to be developed slowly, in bits and pieces as the main arc moves along...it seems the producers like to do each side story as a one-ep deal... 

the most recent examples are the peace movement and the black market...everything is humming along and then BAM one ep adds a whole new angle you were not expecting...


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## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

Wow, I agree with so many points here. I watched it on the treadmill this morning, and am usually engrossed. But I was huffing, painfully aware of how little time had passed each time I looked at the clock.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Anubys said:


> Duala was not kissing Billy at the end, was she?...


No, she was not.



Anubys said:


> ...everything is humming along and then BAM one ep adds a whole new angle you were not expecting...


...and that is EXACTLY why I liked this one!


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> No, she was not.


That wasn't Billy in the gym? Who was it?


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## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

I liked it. I thought it was a great way to remind us that it is not all Cylons all the time. It also opened up the whole issue of the black market to be revisited at any time. The politicalization of Gaius was a fun vignette as well. Scenes like that one are why you can never write off an episode of BG, and must pay attention to every segment.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ovr8ted said:


> Dualla is confusing me a bit. Either get it on with Billy or get it on with Lee.


Me too. That was totally out of the blue for me, I was very confused. Did I miss an episode somewhere? Where has there been a romantic tension between them?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Granny said:


> The politicalization of Gaius was a fun vignette as well. Scenes like that one are why you can never write off an episode of BG, and must pay attention to every segment.


THAT was the best part of the episode, IMO.

Seeing Baltar turn like he has.

It's a slow evolution...like Anakin should have been...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

hefe said:


> That wasn't Billy in the gym? Who was it?


Billy...in a gym? You've got to be kidding...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> Billy...in a gym? You've got to be kidding...


Not at all.

He wasn't working out, just helping her. I could see it.

Of course the picture on DirecTv- Sci Fi is crap, but I thought it looked like him.

So now she's already kissing this _other _new guy...just adds to the overall discontinuity of the episode.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I suppose it could have been Billy, but in the dark gym it was hard to tell.


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## Oldandslow (Nov 8, 2002)

Interesting "President" vs "Vice President"--probably spells "doom" for the Vice President. 

The rest was boring. First episode I wasn't interested in. I'm usually spell-bound, while watching, and think about the episode long after it's over. Not this time, however.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

It was Billy.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

I still watch this show twice out of habit. Once normal, once with the podcast.

Moore says it is definitely Billy in the Gym with D at the end. He said to remind everyone, "Oh yeah, she's with Billy!" so there's a love "triangle". Whatever.

One thing he said that struck me funny, was after Lee shoots the Boss and his henchmen are just standing there, Moore says, "Why aren't these guys beating the crap out of Lee? I don't know."


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

latrobe7 said:


> ..One thing he said that struck me funny, was after Lee shoots the Boss and his henchmen are just standing there, Moore says, "Why aren't these guys beating the crap out of Lee? I don't know."


I thought the same thing....that was weird.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

So did I.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

latrobe7 said:


> One thing he said that struck me funny, was after Lee shoots the Boss and his henchmen are just standing there, Moore says, "Why aren't these guys beating the crap out of Lee? I don't know."


That was actually one of the few things about that storyline that made sense to me. Once the boss was dead, the henchmen were effectively unemployed. Sure, they could kill Apollo, but who would they be killing him for? And they (unlike the boss, who was too much of a moron to live) must have realized that Apollo was merely the tip of a very large military iceberg, that would come down on them like a nuclear bomb if anything happened to him. (Why the boss never figured that out is beyond me; one of the primary rules of organized crime is you don't piss off the people with bigger guns than you.)

Then, while they were still trying to figure out the brand new landscape that Apollo had created, Apollo basically handed them the boss's organization, on the condition that they run things a little smarter than he had. So they can kill Apollo, and wait for the military to blow them into space; or they can accept the gift, and try not to show up on Apollo's radar again.

It was really a win-win situation, unlike under the old boss, where it was a lose-lose situation. But I guess the writers didn't think about that too much...they must have just gotten it right by instinct, instead of on purpose.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I didn't really care for this episode much either. So much seemed to come out of nowhere. I understand that he's been in a really dark place lately and this reinforced that, but it just was all over the place. 

It was nice of him to take out the mob boss for Zarich, though.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was actually one of the few things about that storyline that made sense to me. Once the boss was dead, the henchmen were effectively unemployed. ....


Yeah, but the reality of the situation is that they would have reacted immediately. What you're saying would not really happen...but, then, how much of this would?


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> ...One thing he said that struck me funny, was after Lee shoots the Boss and his henchmen are just standing there, Moore says, "Why aren't these guys beating the crap out of Lee? I don't know."


Cuz' Lee can cut himself in for 'A Piece of the Action' see!


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

Were they implying that Zarek took over the black market when they showed him in the bar at the end?

I agree with the comments that this should have been a longer story arc. I am realizing that I really miss the Caprica arcs. Going back and forth between the fleet and Caprica made the show more gripping in my opinion.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Yeah, but the reality of the situation is that they would have reacted immediately. What you're saying would not really happen...but, then, how much of this would?


Perhaps only if they were truly loyal to him. They could have been disgruntled and were glad (or at least not that upset) to see him go. Him having the one that choked Apollo killed might have left a bad taste in their mouth.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Glad to read your comments.

I felt like I missed a few episodes, or wasn't paying attention, or missed some BSG traning class.

Lee wants to die? Ok
Lee had a past love who he still dwells on? Ok
Lee is paying for hookers? What?!?
Lee was hooking up with D? Wha?
Baltar sees some hot blond occasionally but no one else does? Where'd that come from?


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## sik209 (Jan 28, 2006)

i really do not like this show


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

You missed the ""


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Can anyone speculate on why Rosalyn would want Baltar to step down? Does she see him as a dangerous opponent in the next election? Or is she just afraid that someone in her administration is involved in the Black Market?

Also, what does the last scene with Zarek on the frieghter signify? Is he running the Black Market now?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dtle said:


> Can anyone speculate on why Rosalyn would want Baltar to step down? Does she see him as a dangerous opponent in the next election? Or is she just afraid that someone in her administration is involved in the Black Market?


That part has nothing to do with the black market. I'm sure more will come out later, but she doesn't trust him, that's for sure. It came out in the note that she had left him when she thought she was going to die, and the flashbacks she is having of seeing him on Caprica with Six.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

dswallow said:


> I really wonder how much hearing Ron Moore didn't like it affected people's opinions of the show if they heard them first.


Well, I read that Moore didn't like it but thought I still would. I was wrong.

Emily


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

WinBear said:


> i kind of liked some of this episode. There were some subtle nods to the original series, like Siobhan==Cassiopeia, Pya==Boxey. I also liked Roslin's giving an "out" to Baltar without revealing her hand.


I was interested in her "threat" at the end. I think Baltar knows she's "on to him".

Now, I seem to recall from the previews from last week that something was supposed to blow up. I thought it was going to be the Nuke that Baltar gave Pegasus Gina 6.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

hefe said:


> That part has nothing to do with the black market. I'm sure more will come out later, but she doesn't trust him, that's for sure. It came out in the note that she had left him when she thought she was going to die, and the flashbacks she is having of seeing him on Caprica with Six.


I would think that she would have written Adama a note warning him about Baltar.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ccooperev said:


> I would think that she would have written Adama a note warning him about Baltar.


True, he could probably use a warning.

I think that the flashbacks started occurring once Laura had already become gravely ill, if I remember right. She might not have had those images at the time she wrote the note, but I might have the timing off. She certainly is taking more notice now.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I guess it won't be long before Baltar and Zarick combine forces... 

Lee was paying for a hooker but he was also doing it as a means to help Kia (the little girl)...at least that's how he's justifying it to himself...


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

That was definitely Billy at the end of the episode, helping Duala workout.

I didn't mind this episode. I liked seeing some of the rest of the fleet. The plot had some holes in it which, like a previous poster pointed out, was bound to happen if they wanted to fit this into an hour.

I'm pretty sick of the way these shows use the "clip" of the last scene in the episode at the beginning and then dropping a "48 hours earlier" on us just to create suspense. Honestly, didn't we JUST see this a week ago?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jradford said:


> I'm pretty sick of the way these shows use the "clip" of the last scene in the episode at the beginning and then dropping a "48 hours earlier" on us just to create suspense. Honestly, didn't we JUST see this a week ago?


We saw that a couple episodes back...Resurrection ship.

Moore said that the episode started too slow, and they needed to do that to create some interest at the outset. It would have been worse without it.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

This one didn't do anything for me. 



It was Billy Helping Deee he was holding her feet.


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

I didn't think it was terrible, although I agree with Moore's assessment that it was too much like "conventional TV."

And, like last week, it suffered from too much of the "long-standing problem that we only bothered to start talking about during this episode" syndrome. Like the Cylon sympathizers, the black market stuff needed some more setup. And it's thoroughly unclear why, if the black market is a longstanding phenomenon in the fleet, Fisk was at the center of things after being around the fleet for just a few weeks.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Anyone think that President Roslin could end up being controlled by Cylons? 

I agree that this episode needed two hours to develope the storylines a bit better.


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## Cue-Ball (Oct 8, 2002)

I thought this episode was really good. It really underlines that the humans are under pressure, low on resources, and at each other's throats, even when the Cylons are not a threat. The only thing I didn't like about the episode is that Lee is having flashbacks about somone who was obviously very important to him, but we haven't heard anything about her prior to this. I got the impression that she was pregnant and he wasn't ready to be a father, then ended up leaving for Galactica shortly before the armageddon.

After some of the comments here, I'm wondering if people are really paying any attention at all! Dualla and Lee had a thing going several episodes back. They had been working out together and fell to the mat with one another, nearly kissing. That definitely WAS Billy at the end. I don't think he was there to point out a love triangle so much as he was there to show that Dualla now wants Lee, not him.

It seems pretty obvious to me that now Zarek is in charge of the black market. Not only that, but having Lee get rid of the old boss seemed to be his plan all along. Now Zarek has control of the black market AND no military pressure because Lee is convinced that it needs to be there. Very slick. 

I think that Roslyn gave Baltar a chance to get out because even though she knows he's involved with the Cylons, she has not proof. In addition, she now has Cylon-hybrid blood in her body and Baltar knows about it. Other than Baltar, Coddle, and Adama, nobody else seems to know (the "miraculous recovery" comment from Pegaus' commander). I think Roslyn is worried about what will happen if the general populous finds out about her "cure".

I've also been keeping track of the population count from the beginning of each episode, in case anyone is interested. The count has only been shown since the beginning of Season 2, so unless someone spots the number board in previous episodes, these are the only ones for which I have numbers:

0101: 50,298
0102: 47,973
0201: 47,875
0202: 47,874
0203: 47,862
0204: 47,861
0205: 47,857
0206: 47,858
0207: 47,855
0208: 47,853
0209: 47,853
0210: 49,604
0211: 49,604
0212: 49,604
0213: 49,597

The count should drop again by three next week with the black market boss and the piano wire man both dead, along with the Pegasus XO.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Cue-Ball said:


> I thought this episode was really good. It really underlines that the humans are under pressure, low on resources, and at each other's throats, even when the Cylons are not a threat. The only thing I didn't like about the episode is that Lee is having flashbacks about somone who was obviously very important to him, but we haven't heard anything about her prior to this. I got the impression that she was pregnant and he wasn't ready to be a father, then ended up leaving for Galactica shortly before the armageddon.
> 
> After some of the comments here, I'm wondering if people are really paying any attention at all! Dualla and Lee had a thing going several episodes back. They had been working out together and fell to the mat with one another, nearly kissing. That definitely WAS Billy at the end. I don't think he was there to point out a love triangle so much as he was there to show that Dualla now wants Lee, not him.
> 
> ...


From podcast insight...

You are right about Lee's backstory...she was pregnant, he couldn't deal with it.

Moore actually used the phrase "love triangle" talking about Lee/Billy/Dualla.

You're right about Laura. She has no proof other than what she remembered while practically on death's door, and Baltar did save her life.

The population swing would include any other births and deaths in the fleet, so we may not see an exact correlation from what we saw in the episode.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Was the blackmarket an entire ship or just a section of a ship? I thought I heard them say they "went off the grid". If it's a whole ship, how's that work when they need an emergency jump?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Wow, I just finished watching this episode and thought it rocked. Probably the best of the season, IMO. Lots of tension, character development, interesting politics and moral dilemmas.

And then I come in here and see the dislike, even from Moore.

IMO, the previous episode, which apparently Moore really liked, was the worst in the series.

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but I'm looking forward to it now.


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Man, I really must be in the minority. I loved this ep.....like "The Shield" in outer space.


I just finished watching it. It held my interest. This still one of the better TV shows out there!


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Who is this Moore??? I don't need anyone to tell me that if this episode was good or not. I'll do that judging.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

DLL66 said:


> Who is this Moore??? I don't need anyone to tell me that if this episode was good or not. I'll do that judging.


http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0601822/


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## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

Cue-Ball said:


> ......
> 
> After some of the comments here, I'm wondering if people are really paying any attention at all! *Dualla and Lee had a thing going several episodes back. They had been working out together and fell to the mat with one another, nearly kissing.* That definitely WAS Billy at the end. I don't think he was there to point out a love triangle so much as he was there to show that Dualla now wants Lee, not him.
> 
> ...


I do remember that, but that's hardly a romance worthy of talking about. She and Billy were all hot and heavy, sneaking around and whatnot. Lee and D, well, I just got the impression there was a little desire, but that's as far as it ever got.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

so you think that RDM could do his podcast somewhere other then his home. I really hate the guy with the leaf blower outside


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

I loved season 2.0 but season 2.5 so far has been a major disapointment. This was a disapointing week of TV because both lost and BSG had sub par episodes.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

DLL66 said:


> Who is this Moore??? I don't need anyone to tell me that if this episode was good or not. I'll do that judging.


He's the Executive Producer of BSG.

He also provides commentary with each episode via podcast.

Nobody needs anyone to tell them what to like, it's just interesting to get behind the scenes thinking.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

Damn, a lot of negativity around here. 

Personally, I didn't mind this episode as a whole so much. Actually, I liked many of the character moments - for Lee, for Baltar and especially Roslin.

Yes, the emotional arc of Lee playing 'Captain Save-A-Hoe' was a bit overdone, especially in terms of Shevon not wanting to go back with him (woman please!) but I loved the fact that he actually shot Phelan (instead of finding some convenient way not to). [Talk about this show being the anti-Trek. LOL.]

What really annoys me about this series is the continued (over)use of the whole in media res thing. As mentioned by others, it takes way too much out of the dramatic flow. And for an episode like this, I think starting slow would have worked better.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

hefe said:


> Nobody needs anyone to tell them what to like, [...]


Oh, if only that were true for the majority of Americans.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

hefe said:


> We saw that a couple episodes back...Resurrection ship.
> 
> Moore said that the episode started too slow, and they needed to do that to create some interest at the outset. It would have been worse without it.


I heard him say that in the podcast, and I completely disagreed. Rather than create tension, all I could think of was "we JUST saw this with Lee floating in space!!! [G.O.B.]C'MON [/G.O.B.]!!"


----------



## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

Bierboy said:



> Man, I really must be in the minority. I loved this ep.....like "The Shield" in outer space.


Okay, I literally LOL'ed at that...

:up:


----------



## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> This episode didn't do it for me at all.
> 
> I'd actually say this was the least interesting BSG yet.


I agree 100%. I actually fell asleep since it was so disjointed and couldn't hold my interest. The whole story about Apollo came out of the blue and seemed implasible. Flashbacks to some great love we never even heard about before. No inkling when he took up with the prostitute. Was it after his near death experience or what?

And how exactly to they report the guy he killed death the the president (for her count)?

I went back and rewatched the last 15 minutes (that I mostly slept through) on Saturday. At least the ending where Adama said "you've been different since you ejected from the Blackbird..." was certainly true. Glad I went back and heard that comment at least.

To me, this seemed like some sort of filler episode while half the main characters were still on vacation. No Boomer, no Starbuck, very little of Baltar and Six.

Just very uneven and extremely unsatisfying episode.

Cheryl


----------



## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

I liked the episode.

Any guesses on who the next Pegasus commander will be?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

speedcouch said:


> No Boomer, no Starbuck, very little of Baltar and Six.


That describes an almost-perfect episode.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

Is Starbuck still the CAG on Pegasus?


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

questfortruth said:


> I liked the episode.
> 
> Any guesses on who the next Pegasus commander will be?


Judging by the "easy way out" philosophy they seem to running with now; I'll bet a dollar it's Lee.


----------



## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

latrobe7 said:


> Judging by the "easy way out" philosophy they seem to running with now; I'll bet a dollar it's Lee.


Adama should take personal command of the Pegasus and promote Tigh to commander of the Galactica. As long as Adama is in the picture, Tigh would probably be able to handle the job.

It won't happen, but it would probably make the most sense.

Maybe Moore will mine the original series- "Take the Celestra" (commander Chronos) comes to mind- when it comes to introducing the next Pegasus commander.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

they could be in the middle of the battle at any moment...the new commander needs to be familiar with the crew and their capabilities as well as with the ship...command is not just walking around giving order... 

you need someone who knows what order to give, who to give it to, and when and where...etc. 

You can't just assign someone from Galactica to Pegasus...


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## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

Is it just me or is the whole gimmick where you start with the climax, then jump to "48 hours earlier" really getting old? It's used so much by so many shows lately...

EDIT: oops, already been covered!


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

etsolow said:


> Is it just me or is the whole gimmick where you start with the climax, then jump to "48 hours earlier" really getting old? It's used so much by so many shows lately...


It's not just you.


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## DriverJ (Jan 29, 2006)

it was kind of a lack luster episode. it was ok, I liked the development for Lee. 
It did seem to be a lackluster friday for Sci-Fi. 
SG1 was good, I like that they are developing mitchell, but it was a slower ep
Atlantis was so-so 
galactica was the first this season that did not have me glued to the TV like I have been so far this season with galactica 
but we'll see how the rest goes
I was rather disappointed that they killed pegasus' commander, he was kind of a [email protected]$$, but atleast it gave tigh someone to b/s with so they could develop tigh more. 
Next weeks looks promising cause I'm waiting to see what happens with starbuck about her guy back on caprica. 
I'd also like to see what develops with her and Capt. Adema aftershe was with baltar and moaning for lee....


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## ToddAtl (Jul 27, 2003)

questfortruth said:


> Adama should take personal command of the Pegasus and promote Tigh to commander of the Galactica. As long as Adama is in the picture, Tigh would probably be able to handle the job.
> 
> It won't happen, but it would probably make the most sense.


Actually I expect the opposite. I see Tigh being shipped off to take the helm of the Pegasus. Either that or they will use this as an opportunity to introduce a new long term character.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ToddAtl said:


> Actually I expect the opposite. I see Tigh being shipped off to take the helm of the Pegasus. Either that or they will use this as an opportunity to introduce a new long term character.


I'd say neither. After Tigh's brush with command earlier this season, both he and Adama are fully aware that command is the exact opposite of where Tigh's talents are. He doesn't wqnt it and he sucks at it; Adama would never set his old friend up for failure in such a spectacular fashion.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'd say neither. After Tigh's brush with command earlier this season, both he and Adama are fully aware that command is the exact opposite of where Tigh's talents are. He doesn't wqnt it and he sucks at it; Adama would never set his old friend up for failure in such a spectacular fashion.


Agreed.

Who is next in command on the Pegasus. I'd guess it just goes on down the line again. Who was made XO over there a few weeks ago when what's-her-name died?


----------



## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

While I had no problem with the episode as a whole, I didn't like how jarring some of the aspects of Lee's life seemed to be. Lee was putting the moves on Dee and feeling awfully jealous when Starbuck got a piece of her own yet we're now supposed to believe that he's been having this deep relationship with a prostitute? They should have at least let this be hinted at in previous episodes, maybe a quick remark about how he seems to be spending alot of time on Cloud 9...

I was pretty sure that Lee was going to wuss out again at the end, it was gratifying to see that he is still capable of growing a pair when the situation calls for it. I thought there was nothing at all odd about the henchmen not going after Lee once he shot the boss. People in those situations don't exactly work with each other out of love, it's all about profit and power. The first thought through the second in command's head after Lee fired was probably something along the lines of "Hey, now I'm in charge! Cool!". The death of a superior is the only way to get promoted in their chosen career...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Worst BSG so far  Bleh.

I got home Friday night in time for the 1am re-airing. After about 15 minutes I went to bed. Never before had I interrupted a BSG before it was done.

Saturday night I tried to watch it. I ended up doing so from my computer (I had just upgraded the OS so it was a new toy). Never before had I not paid strict attention to BSG.

Glad to know I wasn't alone.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> ...Glad to know I wasn't alone.


 You were...as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Uh, yeah, that was definitely Billy helping Dualla work out at the end. This ep felt like I was missing one in between. Like they had defined a lot of this backstory previously. But they hadn't. So, it was kind of a filler, but at least it was still BSG.


----------



## Thaed (Nov 25, 2003)

To me it was a turning point in the series. Apollo is turning dark and the whole thing is taking a darker tone. Not sure I like it, but I'm still watching.


----------



## J4yDubs (Jul 3, 2002)

My thoughts (haven't listened to pod cast yet):

"48 hours before..." uhhg. Not again.

Apollo flash backs. This seems like a way to explain why he doesn't want to live (I didn't understand his comment to Starbuck, so this helps). I don't understand why it's just now happening (depression) though.

The Dualla/Apollo thing. I don't mind this twist. Adds another dynamic.

Apollo and a hooker? Did this start before or after the space walk? After I can kinda see it after, but before doesn't really fit with his character.

Loved the Baltar and Laura scene. Best part of this show.

Black Market? They don't seem to have good control of the population considering the low number of people. If the only way to get medical supplies is through the black market, something is wrong and it needs to be fixed.

President is acting strange. Kinda like she's angry about something (reviving her with the hybrid blood?).

No "whole fleet" shots. This episode could have used one. Helps show scale.

Are they still looking for earth? That story line seems to have been dropped or at least tabled for now.

I didn't really care for this episode. Not bad, but not "BSG good". That's 2 average shows in a row. I thought the second have of season 2 was supposed to be better than the first? At least that's what the actors said. 

John


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

I think that some of the carping is just "post-Pegasus-partum" depression


----------



## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

Totaly unrelated, but I was reading an article about Katee Sackhoff (Starbuck) and learned that she graduated from the same high school I did. (12 Years difference)


----------



## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

questfortruth said:


> Adama should take personal command of the Pegasus and promote Tigh to commander of the Galactica. As long as Adama is in the picture, Tigh would probably be able to handle the job.


As the next highest ranking officer, Colonel Tighe should be sent to Command the Pegasus.

Cheryl


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## MassD (Sep 19, 2002)

J4yDubs said:


> Apollo flash backs. This seems like a way to explain why he doesn't want to live (I didn't understand his comment to Starbuck, so this helps). I don't understand why it's just now happening (depression) though.


Well, it's always been there. His depression has been there for a long time. As I said before, Apollo has been struggling since the beginning of the series. Let's look at the issues:


He still carries guilt over the death of his brother.
He has a screwed up relationship with his brother's ol' flame (who was also responsible for his brother's death)
Things between him and pops are still totally fubar'd (he did, after all, betray him).
Roslin's ordering of hit on Cmdr RoeWhatsHerName really shattered his faith in her.
We learned that he abandoned a past love who may have been pregnant.

Add into that a splash of that whole "watching your people get slaughtered and having to run for their lives" thing... a person under that kind of load sometimes only needs a small push to send them totally into the chasm. For Lee, that push occured when he ejected from the Viper. After struggling to slow the leak, he came to the conclusion that there was no reason to fight to live anymore.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Sherminator said:


> Jamie Bamber (Cpt Lee Adama for those few who don't know) must be a natural blond and the stubble that his is sporting must have been his own or the make-up team placed blond facial hair on a character who is a brunette.


I don't think that's terribly unusual. My beard hair doesn't match the brown hair on top of my head.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Sherminator said:


> I'm just watching "The Farm" on UHD and well, make-up needs to do a better job because of the enhanced definition.
> 
> Jamie Bamber (Cpt Lee Adama for those few who don't know) must be a natural blond and the stubble that his is sporting must have been his own or the make-up team placed blond facial hair on a character who is a brunette.


According to imdb, he had blonde hair and blue eyes.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Two weeks without running into cylons. Enough of the human interaction aboard ship. Lets beam down to a planet and chase some of those metalic guys, or have them chase us.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I kind of liked it. It wasn't exactly well executed, but it was interesting to me anyway. I don't think Lee's behavior was out of the blue. His relationship with the hooker was, but we've been seeing his problems with intimacy for some time now.

I'm still not sure what we are supposed to make of roslin and baltar. My take is that she thinks she remembers him being in bed with the cylon back on caprica but she's not entirely sure? Or is she sure but not acting as strongly as I would think she would?


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I'm a brown haired *** and I get blond hairs in my mustache and red hairs in my goatee.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> I'm still not sure what we are supposed to make of roslin and baltar. My take is that she thinks she remembers him being in bed with the cylon back on caprica but she's not entirely sure? Or is she sure but not acting as strongly as I would think she would?


She's not really on firm footing with her memory. She was quite out of it, on her deathbed and all. It could be argued that she was hallucinating if she tries to make something of it.. I'm sure she doesn't have enough confidence, or at least enough proof at this time to really do anything. Plus, there's that whole "Baltar saved her life" thing...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

hefe said:


> She's not really on firm footing with her memory. She was quite out of it, on her deathbed and all. It could be argued that she was hallucinating if she tries to make something of it.. I'm sure she doesn't have enough confidence, or at least enough proof at this time to really do anything. Plus, there's that whole "Baltar saved her life" thing...


That was my take initially, but she seems overly hostile to him and openly so. Maybe the fuzzy memory has just gotten her thinking about him?

Plus, even before the memory, she wrote that letter...


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I liked this episode. The reason for the "48 hours ago" thing was so we'd have the mini-cliffhanger of whether Apollo was going to shoot the black marketer or not for the entire show, rather than just a few seconds at the end. I agree it seems overdone these days but it actually served a dramatic purpose in this episode. I thought it was appropriate that Apollo shot him (it would have sucked if they'd wimped out and given Apollo an epiphany), but I thought they could have been _slightly_ more explicit about how he doesn't seem to care about much of anything anymore. Not too much or it would have been even worse... a fine line to be sure.

Anyway, I liked it and thought it was a nice break from the "normal" shows.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> That was my take initially, but she seems overly hostile to him and openly so. Maybe the fuzzy memory has just gotten her thinking about him?
> 
> Plus, even before the memory, she wrote that letter...


Oh, no doubt. I don't suspect she ever really trusted him or thought he could be any kind of leader. I just think that right now she isn't ready to act overtly or make any specific accusations. Or even tell anyone what she thinks she knows. But who knows, maybe that is just a matter of time.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

she was as hostile as a politician can be...war is about to start between them...this is why I was wondering how long it will be before Baltar and Zarick join forces...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

madscientist said:


> I liked this episode. The reason for the "48 hours ago" thing was so we'd have the mini-cliffhanger of whether Apollo was going to shoot the black marketer or not for the entire show,


Why is it important to point out his race?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

hefe said:


> Why is it important to point out his race?


I saw that, but after thinking about it for about 1.5 seconds I couldn't work out how to re-word it. Then I decided why bother. Plus I like to give you guys some easy ones now and then; you shouldn't have to work for everything!


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

madscientist said:


> I liked this episode. The reason for the "48 hours ago" thing was so we'd have the mini-cliffhanger of whether Apollo was going to shoot the black marketer or not for the entire show, rather than just a few seconds at the end. I agree it seems overdone these days but it actually served a dramatic purpose in this episode.


 I disagree. If anything it killed some of the dramatic tension in the middle of the episode because we knew how Apollo was going to react to the "warning"; if he'd chosen to cave in and bury the investigation, then there wouldn't have been that confrontation at the end.


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

The episode did seem a bit rushed but it brought to light something that should have occurred to me but didn't (the fact that of course a black market would spring up, and the living conditions for the civilians in the fleet). Though there was one thing I cannot understand, how is money even remotely valuable anymore? I can see bartering services, you give me something I need and I return the favor, but $? 

One thing that I have been aware of since the beginning is how disconnected the military would be from the civilian fleet. BSG is basically their home, they have a lot of the comforts of home with them, the captain (ETA - make that Admiral) has an office with books and other things that he likes to have around with him. The other crewmembers do not have a lot but they have some things. The civilians hardly have anything at all, has to be a whole lot tougher for them. The show should bring to light what they are going through a little bit more. I have to wonder though, after this long where did that fresh fruit that Tigh had come from? Just how much food do they have in the fleet? Baltar made mention of how much it would take to feed everybody, but no mention of how much they have. In the 70's BSG, weren't they coming across inhabited planets all the time? Seems like this fleet could use one about now. Or maybe run across a Cylone supply ship, the human models need to eat right? Also would like to know if they are planting crops on the Cloud Nine, or If not, why not? 

Mitch


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

latrobe7 said:


> Judging by the "easy way out" philosophy they seem to running with now; I'll bet a dollar it's Lee.


I bet the pegasus has a revolt at some point on it and vanishes. Possibly choosing it's own direction with the next jump. You heard it, I said it here.


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Week before (or was it two weeks?) Apollo told Starbuck he didn't care if he lived or died when he was floating around in space. Guess his relationship with the hooker is just part of a downward spiral for him. And committing murder. I thought it was weak that the other bad guys didn't kill him though.

I also didn't know he had a former love and all that. Either I missed it or it never was brought up.

But, thought it was great to see him shoot that smug SOB point blank.



7thton said:


> I didn't think this was a great episode, for reasons someone mentioned above. All the stuff about Apollo having a relationship with the hooker & him having a lost love (they split b/c she wouldn't have a baby, or couldn't?) just seemed kinda out of the blue.


----------



## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

jcondon said:


> I thought it was weak that the other bad guys didn't kill him though.


Already discussed somewhat, but I agree that they should have reacted in some way other than just standing there clueless. At the very least they should have done something defensively; how did they know he wasn't going to start shooting them next? And was that really the only gun they had?


----------



## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

jcondon said:


> Week before (or was it two weeks?) Apollo told Starbuck he didn't care if he lived or died when he was floating around in space. Guess his relationship with the hooker is just part of a downward spiral for him. And committing murder. I thought it was weak that the other bad guys didn't kill him though.
> 
> I also didn't know he had a former love and all that. Either I missed it or it never was brought up.
> 
> But, thought it was great to see him shoot that smug SOB point blank.


The Boss that was shot didn't care who Lee, or his daddy was. I think the thugs did. Imagine killing Bill's son without the other Boss to handle the "negotiating". I think running away might have been the more appropriate move, if you don't like the disbelief stand around.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Zen98031 said:


> how is money even remotely valuable anymore? I can see bartering services, you give me something I need and I return the favor, but $?


Money did lose it's value immediately after the attack and an unofficial impromptu bartering economy was quickly established. Although the government tried to requisition most things of value in an attempt to set up a redistribution program, it was slow and inefficient so the people were forced to develop a "grey market".

Bartering is inefficient too, and since bank notes or government-backed money were not available, the people needed something portable and easily divisible that would hold it's value long term to facilitate the exchange of goods. Liquor seemed to fill the bill.

Enthusiastic traders began to buy up liquor in large amounts and those looking to trade their goods for liquor would come to them for the exchange. For the most part, each ship had one trader that handled the bulk of this business for that particular ship, and all "grey market" trade went through them. These "money" changers became impromptu banks and set up networks for easy transfers between ships that didn't actually require the bulk of liquor-currency to be transferred, but only the net difference between the banks of the transactions--clearing houses.

Individuals who did not want to store their own valuable liquor at home, out of fear of theft, would leave their liquor in the hands of the "banks", who were able to afford their own private security. The "banks" ,in return, were able to use this extra currency to invest in other trade and so began to pay interest to depositors in order to entice other people to leave their liquor with them.

The depositors would receive a receipt with each deposit. These deposit receipts began changing hands as an alternative to direct liquor transfer and the banks was more than happy allow them to do so. To facilitate easier funds transfer the "banks" began offering "bearer" notes in small denominations, in replace of receipts, if the customers asked for them. These bearer notes are, of course, cash.

Most small scale trade is still conducted by bartering. But, cash and credit is readily available for those who require it.

As for the fleet-backed currency, it's a joke, of course, and is only used for "official" transactions. But, since it's value is volatile, and can often lose 50 percent or more of it's value in a single day, it is immediately exchanged for something more stable--like liquor or grey market bank notes.

Or something like that.


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> I'm a brown haired *** and I get blond hairs in my mustache and red hairs in my goatee.


calico like me. but i aint no ***, i am a stupid patty
http://www.angelfire.com/geek/APRACE/glossary.html

this week BSG was quite good.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Fool Me Twice, this is a thread about BSG, not about the economy in the Soviet Union... 

/Mike


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## rcobourn (Nov 10, 2004)

wedgecon said:


> Totaly unrelated, but I was reading an article about Katee Sackhoff (Starbuck) and learned that she graduated from the same high school I did. (12 Years difference)


That makes you next in command of Pegasus after Starbuck takes over and gets killed, I think.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

OT, but I would hate to be a set of identical twins in Galactica's fleet.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> OT, but I would hate to be a set of identical twins in Galactica's fleet.


"Twins?! Yeah, right Cylon scum, out the airlock!"


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> I'm a brown haired *** and I get blond hairs in my mustache and red hairs in my goatee.


_[...Must not do what color is hair caught in teeth joke...Must not do what co...]_


----------



## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

Brown hair, bright-red mustache and beard. Which was actually quite a surprise to me when I grew it out for the fist time in my mid twenties.

The '48 hours earlier' thing on BSG and other shows is getting old. A sure sign of mediocre writing that they have to show you the end in order to get you to wade through the rest.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

PJO1966 said:


> OT, but I would hate to be a set of identical twins in Galactica's fleet.


too funny!

I still like how your mind works


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> OT, but I would hate to be a set of identical twins in Galactica's fleet.


Spaceballs, anyone?


----------



## DRobbins (Dec 23, 2001)

Sherminator said:


> Jamie Bamber (Cpt Lee Adama for those few who don't know) must be a natural blond and the stubble that his is sporting must have been his own or the make-up team placed blond facial hair on a character who is a brunette.


He was a blond when he played Archie in the A&E Horatio Hornblower movies, although I always assumed he wore a wig because his hair was so long in that role. Regardless, I think the blond hair looks more natural on him than the brunette does.

He also has a great British accent in the HH movies.

--Debbie


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

He and the actor who plays Baltar are British...


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## DRobbins (Dec 23, 2001)

Anubys said:


> He and the actor who plays Baltar are British...


I saw the actor who plays Baltar in Bridget Jones' Diary (I and II) and was so tickled. Incredibly different characters, each played so wonderfully.

--Debbie


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> He and the actor who plays Baltar are British...


Apollo is Irish, actually...


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Did I hear it right when they called the cigars "cubans"? It just seemed odd to me...


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

the cigars were labelled 'Capricans', which I found to be odd. 

it's akin to us having a brand of cigar called 'Earthlings'


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

chavez said:


> the cigars were labelled 'Capricans', which I found to be odd.
> 
> it's akin to us having a brand of cigar called 'Earthlings'


No, because there were 12 planets.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Apollo is Irish, actually...


Apollo is from earth? 

that's a twist I never saw


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Apollo is from earth?
> 
> that's a twist I never saw




Nice...


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

dcheesi said:


> I disagree. If anything it killed some of the dramatic tension in the middle of the episode because we knew how Apollo was going to react to the "warning"; if he'd chosen to cave in and bury the investigation, then there wouldn't have been that confrontation at the end.


Well, I'd agree with that if there'd been even the the slightest chance that Apollo was going to bury the investigation 

The real drama here was unquestionably whether Apollo would shoot or not. Everything else in the show was leading up to that.


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

madscientist said:


> The real drama here was unquestionably whether Apollo would shoot or not. Everything else in the show was leading up to that.


You know, that got me thinking... Knowing that soon Apollo would face a decision as to whether to shoot the guy or not I paid a little extra attention to how he was being treated and how it appeared he felt about things. I was looking for any clue that would later influence his decision. So it had me paying attention to the character in a way I might not have otherwise. I was so hoping he would shoot the guy, with the limited resources they all have there is no reason to keep a "problem" like him around, but I did not see the Apollo I knew up to the episode before last doing so. I was watching everything he experienced through the lens of: is this changing him into somebody that could shoot somebody in cold blood? I think they did a good job of showing how that change progressed, and they made sure the audience was looking for it.

Mitch


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I find that with the "48 hours earlier" device, I often forget about the opening sequence until that scene shows up later in the show, then I think "What was the point of showing us this before." Happened again with this episode. I think it's a worthless writing device.

I liked finding out about the black market issues in the fleet, I just didn't like how quickly it surfaced and was dealt with. I would like to have seen more about how Phelan and his crew acquired the goods that they were trading. Were they stealing them? Why would they have access to medical supplies that other ships didn't have? Does the "government" actually own the ships and supplies and are they responsible for the infrastructure, or is this a loose collection of private ships that are all looking out for themselves? I would like to have seen these questions dealt with.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

I actually felt guilty for hating he episode so much after listening to the commentary. I just felt so bad for Moore, he just hated it so much and I think he feels he let us fans down. He didn't mention anything about hating the next epidoes so I'm thinking this is a one time thing and the show will be back on track. I wonder if there is anyway he could have not even aired it? I guess after a show is shot and edited and all you can't just not show it. 

Emily


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

emandbri said:


> I actually felt guilty for hating he episode so much after listening to the commentary. I just felt so bad for Moore, he just hated it so much and I think he feels he let us fans down. He didn't mention anything about hating the next epidoes so I'm thinking this is a one time thing and the show will be back on track. I wonder if there is anyway he could have not even aired it? I guess after a show is shot and edited and all you can't just not show it.
> 
> Emily


I also just listened to the podcast last night...what a waste of an hour...enough already...talk about the scenes, what is happening, why you changed something...etc.

he hardly spent 2-3 minutes on the ep itself...he offered no insight into decisions/scenes...etc. and the damn gardening noise drove me nuts...


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

Anubys said:


> he hardly spent 2-3 minutes on the ep itself...he offered no insight into decisions/scenes...etc. and the damn gardening noise drove me nuts...


I agree! He could have waited to record the podcast after the gardners left!

Emily


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## MassD (Sep 19, 2002)

> Does the "government" actually own the ships and supplies and are they responsible for the infrastructure, or is this a loose collection of private ships that are all looking out for themselves? I would like to have seen these questions dealt with.


That's the rub.

Will the survivors carry over their old loyalties? Frankly, under this situation, I find it rather foolish that they tried to carry over the same system. Something that worked for billions of people living in relative peace across 12 planets may not work so well for 50,000 living in hell on a handful of spaceships running from a bloodthirsty enemy.

The only thing standing between the fleet and total anarchy right now are the guns on the Galactica and Pegasus. But even that is no sure thing. There is a LOT going on that the the military has little to no idea about. I think you will see more and more conflict between the civilians and the military... with Roslin's government slowly losing authority.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

The Dualla/Billy relationship developed slowly over time, then suddenly she is interested in Lee. This made no sense to me when it was first shown a few episodes ago, and still doesn't. Now she seems to be back with Billy, which is good, because he is MUCH better for her.

I agree with many others here, they tried to emotionally involve us in an emotional vacuum, which doesn't work. They NEEDED to show Lee with Shevon at least once, many episodes ago, then more recently, so by this episode, we could have a connection to her, and have some sense of his connection to her. It was clear that the scenes were directed in a way that suggested that Lee and Shevon had a long-term relationship, and that Lee was attached to Pia. The lack of ever having shown them together before, not even in dialog, made for zero emotional impact, where one was needed. It reminded me of all those bad 70s lawyer/doctor/cop shows where some guest actor shows up and the "star" talks briefly about how long he has known this guy and how close they have always been, though we've never seen him before, and how he will go out on a limb for this buddy, though the audience is emotionally detached because we have no history.

We should have been shown flashbacks of Lee's lost love all along. For that to have been introduced blindly, just for this episode, seems like audience manipulation rather than story telling. 

Laura now remembers Baltar with Cylon 6, she has a file of known Cylons, remember, so she is acutely aware that he has been compromised. She has nothing concrete to go public with, so she gave him an out to resign, but she is after him. Since she is the president, can't she demand his resignation? This WILL become a big issue sometime in the future, possibly the season cliff hanger.

I feel certain that the whole "A" story was somehow orchestrated by Zarek to maneuver himself into taking over as the head of the black market. He brings the market up to Laura (not shown), who brings it to the military, who announce a crackdown, which causes the death of Phelan. Apollo visits Zarek who gives him the info he needs to go after Phelan, and being an amateur student of psychology, Zarek (I'm guessing again) buys Pia. It's the threat to Pia that pushes Lee to kill Phelan, not Shevon. When she leaves, he is still comforted by the fact that he saved Pia. Shevon was correct, he was reliving his relationship with his lost love, not her at all.

The black market, and the Cylon Sympathizers from last week needed to have some back story. Their existence needed to have been disclosed, at least in dialog, before the episode where they we given the major story. This oversight is unusual for Galactica where these things are usually better handled.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

didn't Billy have curly blonde hair? when he was kissing D, he had straight brown hair...I know it's the same actor, but it was a strange time to switch looks on us... 

or am I imagining things?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Anubys said:


> didn't Billy have curly blonde hair? when he was kissing D, he had straight brown hair...I know it's the same actor, but it was a strange time to switch looks on us...
> 
> or am I imagining things?


Huh? Blonde?










Yeah, you're imagining things...I'd rather be imagining six, myself.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> didn't Billy have curly blonde hair? when he was kissing D, he had straight brown hair...I know it's the same actor, but it was a strange time to switch looks on us...
> 
> or am I imagining things?


You sir, are imagining things...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

hefe said:


> I'd rather be imagining six, myself.


Gaius, is that you?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

hefe said:


> Huh? Blonde?
> 
> Yeah, you're imagining things...I'd rather be imagining six, myself.


I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong...

seriously...I need to lose some weight


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

hefe said:


> ...I'd rather be imagining six, myself.


I believe Starbuck would be my choice...


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