# Series 3 HD stuck in "Powering Up..."



## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

Hello, 
I have a TiVo Series 3 HD that started getting stuck in "Welcome! Powering up...." mode starting sometime early this morning. I don't know what caused the problem.

I do not have cable cards installed on this Series 3. I have DirecTV for satellite service, so I've been using the TiVo for Netflix, downloading videos from Amazon, etc. I've been doing this for a few years now with no problems.

The obvious symptoms are:

1. The screen message
2. The front panel lights: two vertical rows of light: two red lights on the left, one blue (top) and one red (bottom) lights on the right. There is a yellow TiVo icon between the two vertical rows of lights.
3. I have the TiVo USB/wireless internet adapter. It's dark, as though it's not getting any power. I tried switching from one USB port to the other on the back of the Series 3, but that made no difference.

What I've done so far:

1. Tried resetting by unplugging the Series 3, waiting about 30 seconds, then plugging it back in. After a few seconds, the "Welcome! Powering up...." message returns and stays there. No change from that state for several hours after the last reset.

2. Checked all the connections, including the USB/Wireless LAN adapter, telephone line, all A/V inputs and outputs, connection to external storage (I have the WD Expander driver)

Any ideas what might be causing this, or what I can do about it besides doing the reset via unplugging/plugging?

Thanks for your time,
Alan Mintaka


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

It sounds like your hard drive has failed. Another possibility is a bad power supply, but I'd start with the hard drive. Is it the original 250GB that shipped with the TiVo?


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

Arcady said:


> It sounds like your hard drive has failed. Another possibility is a bad power supply, but I'd start with the hard drive. Is it the original 250GB that shipped with the TiVo?


Yes, it's the original. I also have the WD expander drive installed via the SATA connector on the back of the Series 3. Until I saw your message, I hadn't thought to disconnect that to see what would happen. I'm waiting for some kind of result (if any) now. It's still stuck in "Powering up" mode...

Isn't there some way to run diagnostics on the internal hard drive, or even format it? I thought I saw some kind of way to do that in these forums but now I can't find it in the forums or in the TiVo's menus. Maybe I'm thinking of the DirecTV Genie (I have to update my profile), which has a diagnostic mode you can enter by pressing some remote keys during restart.

But would a failure of the internal hard drive also ice the USB/Wireless Ethernet adapter?

Thanks for the input,
Alan Mintaka


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

There are some kickstart codes you can run to force the TiVo to test the drive and attempt a repair: http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-codes.php

However, if the lights are all staying on, then it is never even trying to boot from the drive, so I doubt you will be able to run any of the tests.

The USB adapter gets powered on after the drive boots, so it will most likely stay off until you can get the TiVo to boot up. Plug it into a computer and see if anything happens. As far as the hard drive in the TiVo, you can connect that to a computer and run the manufacturer diagnostics on it from there. If the drive tests good, then you can reformat it with utilities you can find in this forum. If not, you will need to replace the drive. Again, you can find info about how to do this in this forum, or buy a replacement from a site like Weaknees.

If you open up the TiVo, take a look at the power supply and see if there are any bulging capacitors (you'll see bulges on top of the round components on the power supply board, or even leaking goo coming out of them in extreme cases.) If you see that, it may be the power supply instead of the hard drive. You can confirm this by connecting the drive to the computer and running the tests mentioned above.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

If you have the one with the clock display (when it's working properly), then it's the original S3 (TCD648250B), which had the letters HD on the box or somewhere, but the model after that (TCD652160) is commonly referred to around here as the S3 HD, as TiVo pretty much just marketed it as the TiVo HD (and the one that looks just like it, but with a 1TB drive, the TCD658000, as the HD XL).

Anyway, if you get the first "Welcome, powering up" screen, which is built into a chip on the motherboard, but never advance to the "Just a few more minutes" screen (which is on the hard drive), then something is preventing the motherboard and the hard drive from properly communicating with each other.

Could be the data/power cable that plugs into the back of the drive has worked itself loose (very low likelihood), a bad drive (much better chance), a power supply that's going bad (good chance of that in S2s and S3s) and can't quite provide enough power to spin up the drive, or a motherboard that has developed a problem with its SATA controller (very low likelihood).

You need to open the unit up, check the power supply capacitors while it's opened up, and take the drive out (you can leave it on the bracket) and hook the drive to a PC and run Western Digital's diagnostic software long test on the drive.

And there's no law that says you can't have a drive going or gone bad *and* a power supply falling victim to "capacitor plague" at the same time.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

unitron said:


> ...
> You need to open the unit up, check the power supply capacitors while it's opened up, and take the drive out (you can leave it on the bracket) and hook the drive to a PC and run Western Digital's diagnostic software long test on the drive.
> ....


It's model TCD648250B) and says "TiVo Series 3 HD Digital Media Recorder" on the upper left front of the case, for what that info is worth now...

But now that you've pointed out the different models, I'll update my profile to reflect the details.

I have the "lifetime" TiVo subscription for this Series 3. If I open it to play around with the innards, will I be violating any of the terms of that subscription, or any warranties associated with it?

Also, note that my system profile (below) includes one of those APC UPS power supplies. Summer is the season for a lot of brownouts and thunderstorms around here. I've found that these APC supplies are good for the line surges and interruptions during brownouts, but can't do much if there's a nearby lightning strike. If I'm home when there's a storm, I disconnect everything from the wall (INCLUDING the ethernet) and hope the storm blows by before the APC battery runs down.

But if I'm not home when a storm hits, it's possible that the APC can let a lightning surge bleed through. It's happened before with one of my PCs.

Thus the APC needs to be checked too to make sure it hasn't been compromised. It's easy enough - I'll just move the TiVo plug directly to the wall outlet and see what happens.

In any case, I'll be checking into the terms of that subscription before I open the unit.

Oop, thought of another Q: if I remove the drive, how do I go about running WD diagnostics on it? All of my PCs around here are Windows 7 OS. I thought I saw somewhere that the TiVo drives used a Linux OS....

Thanks,


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

Arcady said:


> ...
> If you open up the TiVo, take a look at the power supply and see if there are any bulging capacitors (you'll see bulges on top of the round components on the power supply board, or even leaking goo coming out of them in extreme cases.) If you see that, it may be the power supply instead of the hard drive. You can confirm this by connecting the drive to the computer and running the tests mentioned above.


Same Q's for Unitron: will opening the unit violate the terms of the "lifetime" TiVo subscription, and will the drive be recognized by Windows 7?

Just noticed your avatar. Did you really have a sitdown with Amanda Tapping? I'm a big fan too - have all the series DVDs, plus the Continuum and Ark of Truth Blu-Rays. Hated Atlantis though. Was disappointed in the overused "Space Vampire" theme (and blatantly copied from "Lifeforce") for the wraith. Why do beings that feed on life energy have to look like a cross between bloodsucking vampires and lampreys? All that, plus the "city" Atlantis only had three or four rooms and one hallway. My house is bigger than that.

Load of off-topic nits. Sorry, folks!


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

If its not working, then the lifetime subscription is worthless! You'll need to get it fixed somehow, and that requires an open unit.

Anyhow, upgraded discs (which requires much more than just opening the box) have impacted warranty claims, but never have I seen it impact lifetime service.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> If its not working, then the lifetime subscription is worthless! You'll need to get it fixed somehow, and that requires an open unit.
> 
> Anyhow, upgraded discs (which requires much more than just opening the box) have impacted warranty claims, but never have I seen it impact lifetime service.


Granted, but would TiVo have to authorize and/or perform the service?


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

BOMOON said:


> Granted, but would TiVo have to authorize and/or perform the service?


A TiVo warranty covers repair or replacement of a malfunctioning unit for some period of time. Your warranty on an original Series 3 unit has surely expired. Lifetime Service means that TiVo will continue to provide schedule information and maybe occasional software updates for the lifetime of the unit. "Service" doesn't mean that they will service the unit in the sense of changing a failing component or anything like that.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Just download WD's Data Lifeguard Diagnostic, hook the drive up to your Windows 7 PC, and run the long test. It could care less what's on the drive (Linux, etc). Windows won't see it or assign a drive letter to it, but the WD program will.

If you can connect it directly to a SATA port on the motherboard that's best, but even a USB adapter is OK. If you use an external adapter or dock it probably won't give you SMART info, but the short and long tests will still run.

Don't fret about the warranty - it's long gone in any case. While it's open look at the top of those capacitors in the power supply carefully. Anything except "it's absolutely perfectly flat" means that it's bad, and sometimes even that's not a sure bet. With a 648 it's not IF, but WHEN unless the power supply has already been replaced.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

BOMOON said:


> It's model TCD648250B) and says "TiVo Series 3 HD Digital Media Recorder" on the upper left front of the case, for what that info is worth now...
> 
> But now that you've pointed out the different models, I'll update my profile to reflect the details.
> 
> ...


You go to WD's site, search the model number of the drive (I think all the 250s were WDs) and on the left hand side of the resulting page will be a link for an image (a .iso file) that you download and burn to cd as an image (so it'll be bootable), and boot the PC with that.

It ignores the software on the drive, so it doesn't matter what, if any, operating system or partitions are on the drive, it deals with it at a lower level.

Which is why you can use their diagnostics on a brand new WD drive that hasn't been high-level formatted or partitioned yet.

I recommend you do that before doing anything else with a new drive, just in case it got hurt during shipping or slipped past Quality Control or something.

It's not the Linux on a TiVo drive that Windows doesn't recognize, it's the Apple Partition Map that they use that Windows won't recognize.

As far as Windows knows, it's an empty drive, but you won't be using Windows to look at it or diagnose it.

(although you may use a program called WinMFS that runs on Windows, but that's not the same thing)

If there's a problem with the drive, come back and let us know, and be looking for a 2TB WD20EURS on sale somewhere for around $100.

That's the best GB/$ deal, it's got a 3 year warranty, and it's designed for 24/7 A/V use.

Any warranty on that TiVo should have run out long before now.

The lifetime subscription is good for the lifetime of that particular machine, as defined by the TiVo Service Number, which is recorded on the sticker on the back and burned into a chip on the motherboard.

That original S3 is the last TiVo model where you could (with great difficulty) move the chip to another of the same model motherboard to save the lifetime sub.

So, as long as you keep that TiVo running, or make it look that way, the lifetime sub remains in effect, regardless of who owns it, or whether you've changed the hard drive.

When the TiVo contacts the TiVo, Inc. servers for program info, it gets the TSN off of that chip and reports it, and the servers check the database for the account status of that TSN.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

BOMOON said:


> Same Q's for Unitron: will opening the unit violate the terms of the "lifetime" TiVo subscription, and will the drive be recognized by Windows 7?
> 
> Just noticed your avatar. Did you really have a sitdown with Amanda Tapping? I'm a big fan too - have all the series DVDs, plus the Continuum and Ark of Truth Blu-Rays. Hated Atlantis though. Was disappointed in the overused "Space Vampire" theme (and blatantly copied from "Lifeforce") for the wraith. Why do beings that feed on life energy have to look like a cross between bloodsucking vampires and lampreys? All that, plus the "city" Atlantis only had three or four rooms and one hallway. My house is bigger than that.
> 
> Load of off-topic nits. Sorry, folks!


I thought the Wraith were pretty much a direct steal from the replacement villains in the last season or 2 of Earth:Final Conflict myself.

Atlantis was a reverse Tardis--looked much bigger on the outside than it was inside.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

unitron said:


> You go to WD's site, search the model number of the drive (I think all the 250s were WDs) and on the left hand side of the resulting page will be a link for an image (a .iso file) that you download and burn to cd as an image (so it'll be bootable), and boot the PC with that.
> ...


Great info Unitron, thanks. I've since ruled out the APC UPS as the problem with respect to the power supply, so it looks as though it really is something internal to the TiVo. Time to disconnect everything, pull the unit, and perform battlefield surgery!


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

unitron said:


> ...
> You go to WD's site, search the model number of the drive (I think all the 250s were WDs) and on the left hand side of the resulting page will be a link for an image (a .iso file) that you download and burn to cd as an image (so it'll be bootable), and boot the PC with that.
> ...


More good info Unitron, thank you.

Tonight I've gotten as far as physically removing the drive from the S3. It was a bit of a problem with those star wrench screws, especially the ones inside the case that connected the drive mount to the chassis.

The worst is over though. Tomorrow I tackle the WD diagnostics. It's good to know about that 2TB replacement option. I hope that's the worst case scenario.

What hurts is that this hard drive has recordings for the entire Cheyenne and Maverick TV series. I'd hate to lose those, but.... Then again, my only option for archiving them was capturing them in real-time using a Canopus or Hauppauge card, and then burning the recordings to DVD or BluRay. Maybe that was too much work to justify the results.

A working S3 is the realistic goal now.

Thanks again for the advice and have a good one,


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Same thing happened to me last month on one of my S3's. Ordered a new hd from Weaknees, replaced it, and everything was fine. There are only a few things that can go wrong - hd, power supply, mobo or fan - that's really all there is inside the case. More often than not it's the hd or ps - and in my case it was the hd.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

That star shaped screw is called a Torx screw. I've used both T-10 and T-15 screwdrivers on Tivos - I've forgotten anymore which models use which. It's always a good idea to have both T-10 and T-15 screwdrivers at home.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

WO312 said:


> That star shaped screw is called a Torx screw. I've used both T-10 and T-15 screwdrivers on Tivos - I've forgotten anymore which models use which. It's always a good idea to have both T-10 and T-15 screwdrivers at home.


Right, because the only reason I can fathom for having "difficulty" is not using the proper size wrench for the job. I believe all units so far actually need both sizes, but apparently, with "difficulty", the T10(or whichever size is smallest) can work on the larger sized screws. If I'm not mistaken, the screws that attach the drives to the brackets are larger than the "case" screws.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

T-10 torx for the case, T-15 for the drive brackets


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

dwit said:


> Right, because the only reason I can fathom for having "difficulty" is not using the proper size wrench for the job. I believe all units so far actually need both sizes, but apparently, with "difficulty", the T10(or whichever size is smallest) can work on the larger sized screws. If I'm not mistaken, the screws that attach the drives to the brackets are larger than the "case" screws.


The "difficulty" for me was that my star wrenches are in one of those "Swiss Army Knife" handles. To get to the tight spots inside the case where the drive mount was attached, I had to take the wrench handle apart and extract the right wrench. That took away the leverage for the wrench, so I just gripped the end with needlenose pliers.

BTW the caps on the PS "look" ok as far as no bulging tops, sides, or explosion artifacts go. The fan also comes on when the unit is plugged in and powered up. I was hoping for something obvious but... on to the hard drive diags.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

ADG said:


> Same thing happened to me last month on one of my S3's. Ordered a new hd from Weaknees, replaced it, and everything was fine. There are only a few things that can go wrong - hd, power supply, mobo or fan - that's really all there is inside the case. More often than not it's the hd or ps - and in my case it was the hd.


Q: when you installed the new drive, where'd you get the OS and TiVo application software?


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

BOMOON said:


> Q: when you installed the new drive, where'd you get the OS and TiVo application software?


Weaknees.com

Plug-n-play Tivo drives. Expect to pay about twice the cost of doing it yourself. Worth it for some. There used to be sources that were a little cheaper. Don't know if they are still around.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

unitron said:


> You go to WD's site, search the model number of the drive (I think all the 250s were WDs) and on the left hand side of the resulting page will be a link for an image (a .iso file) that you download and burn to cd as an image (so it'll be bootable), and boot the PC with that.


There's nothing like that on the WD website that I could find. When I did a search on the part number, WD2500BS, I got nothing at all at first. Then I re-did the search in the "Legacy Products" section. The resulting page was here:

http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?modelno=WD2500bs&x=0&y=0

This page has Windows and DOS clients available for download. There is no ISO file for burning to a bootable drive.

According to the instructions, the Windows version is an MSI file that "tests your drives" - doesn't say which ones, external or internal. Aside from that, I still have to work out a way to connect this drive to my PC. I don't have an external power supply setup for it so I'll probably have to use the PS in the TiVo. Then I'll have to see if I can dig up (or buy) a SATA/USB adapter.

Regardless of all that, I don't see how a Windows or DOS client can diagnose problems on an HDD that uses a different file system. Even formatting would give questionable results, because it will format the drive with the Windows file system, clusters, etc.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

BOMOON said:


> There's nothing like that on the WD website that I could find. When I did a search on the part number, WD2500BS, I got nothing at all at first. Then I re-did the search in the "Legacy Products" section. The resulting page was here:
> 
> http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?modelno=WD2500bs&x=0&y=0
> 
> ...


You want the "Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS" option.

That download will enable you to make a bootable cd. Supposedly, you can also use it to make a bootable flash drive, etc.

Just do it. It's easy and it works(the bootable cd. No firsthand experience with a flash drive). All drive manufacturers have these utilities, and most anyone here giving advice has used them numerous times to test their drives.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

dwit said:


> Weaknees.com
> 
> Plug-n-play Tivo drives. Expect to pay about twice the cost of doing it yourself. Worth it for some. There used to be sources that were a little cheaper. Don't know if they are still around.


That looks pretty good. Actually $150.00 for a plug-n-play 1TB drive isn't so bad. If I have to go that route to replace a bad drive and get the TiVo OS and software all in one swipe, I'll do it.

Looks like I'll have to cannibalize one of my PCs with internal SATA2 ports to test the stock drive. The drive is connected in the TiVo with a combo power/SATA2 plug, so I can't use the PS there and plug the SATA port into another PC. Right now the PC I need to use is rendering a Blu-Ray and won't be available for a few hours. When it's done I'll open it up, remove the non-OS SATA2 drive, plug in the TiVo drive and PS plug, and run the WD Diagnostics client.

Only trouble is... as I reported to Arcady, there's no bootable ISO image with diagnostics software for this drive on the WD website. That means I'll be running WD's Windows client to diagnose a non-Windows HD. Don't see how that can work, even if I reformat the drive - wrong file system.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

dwit said:


> You want the "Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS" option.
> 
> That download will enable you to make a bootable cd. Supposedly, you can also use it to make a bootable flash drive, etc.
> 
> Just do it. It's easy and it works(the bootable cd. No firsthand experience with a flash drive). All drive manufacturers have these utilities, and most anyone here giving advice has used them numerous times to test their drives.


OK, got it. Thanks for the pointer - wasn't obvious on the WD website where the bootable ISO image was.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

dwit said:


> Weaknees.com
> 
> Plug-n-play Tivo drives. Expect to pay about twice the cost of doing it yourself. Worth it for some. There used to be sources that were a little cheaper. Don't know if they are still around.


The other source is DVR Dude.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/dvr_dude/m.html


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Download and burn the iso for The Ultimate Boot CD. It has a copy of the WD diagnostic software on it, along with some other useful tools you may need in the future.

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

dwit said:


> You want the "Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS" option.
> 
> That download will enable you to make a bootable cd. Supposedly, you can also use it to make a bootable flash drive, etc.


Actually, the download doesn't "enable you to make a bootable cd". It includes an EXE file with the instructions to "copy the program to a bootable cd". There's no tool for creating that bootable CD, and there's no built-in tool in Windows 7 to accomplish that (format/make MS-DOS boot Disc only works for floppies - no such option for CDs).

I found a lot of downloadable ISO files to create bootable DOS CDs for Windows 7, but they all finalized the CD after I burned the image - even when I told my burning software not to finalize the CD. Using a CD-RW made no difference. Thus I was never able to copy that executable to a bootable CD.

See steve614's post and my response. The best solution is an ISO that already includes the WD diagnostics. There's nothing like that for this drive on the WD website.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

steve614 said:


> Download and burn the iso for The Ultimate Boot CD. It has a copy of the WD diagnostic software on it, along with some other useful tools you may need in the future.
> 
> http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html


THANK YOU Steve614. This has resolved the quagmire I've been dealing with when it comes to making a bootable CD in Windows 7 and subsequently copying the DOS version of the WD Diagnostics to the CD. There's no easy way to do it. The solution is an integrated ISO file like this one.

Plus, it's loaded with HDD utilities for other drive brands, as well as additional utilities for system maintenance that I haven't explored yet. However I did manage to boot the PC from the CD and run the included WD diagnostics program. I don't have the TiVo drive connected to my PC yet but I do have an internal WD HDD that the diagnostic recognized.

NOW I have something I can work with.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

BOMOON said:


> Actually, the download doesn't "enable you to make a bootable cd". It includes an EXE file with the instructions to "copy the program to a bootable cd". There's no tool for creating that bootable CD, and there's no built-in tool in Windows 7 to accomplish that (format/make MS-DOS boot Disc only works for floppies - no such option for CDs).
> 
> I found a lot of downloadable ISO files to create bootable DOS CDs for Windows 7, but they all finalized the CD after I burned the image - even when I told my burning software not to finalize the CD. Using a CD-RW made no difference. Thus I was never able to copy that executable to a bootable CD.
> 
> See steve614's post and my response. The best solution is an ISO that already includes the WD diagnostics. There's nothing like that for this drive on the WD website.


So many details. But yes, appropriate cd burning software would be needed along with the download at WD to make the bootable cd.

Been so long since I've done it.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

BOMOON said:


> Regardless of all that, I don't see how a Windows or DOS client can diagnose problems on an HDD that uses a different file system. Even formatting would give questionable results, because it will format the drive with the Windows file system, clusters, etc.


The drive diagnostic tools are testing at the hardware level and not the file system level so it doesn't care what file system is on the drive.

Scott


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

dwit said:


> So many details. But yes, appropriate cd burning software would be needed along with the download at WD to make the bootable cd.
> 
> Been so long since I've done it.


Don't I know it. I wasn't being nitty about your posts (sorry if I came across that way), just doing some immature whining about all the crap I ran into when I tried to make this work somehow.

Hey - when you're 60+, a little immaturity now and then is actually a treasured experience.

Back on topic, you might want to check out that link provided by Steve614. That ISO download has a lot of great things besides the WD diagnostics. A number of other hard drive models are supported with utility software, and there are many other options besides HDD maintenance that I haven't even explored yet.

Plus for a DOS program it has a pretty good user interface. I think it's well worth having if you have a Windows OS PC that can boot off a CD drive.

Here's a copy of it:

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

BTW I usually burn my disc images - CD (MP3, CDA, data), DVD, Blu-Ray with the freeware Ashampoo burner. I've never had a problem with it. A solid burner utlity:

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

Have a good one,


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

Hello Everyone who's been following this thread,

I've had mixed success with the WD Diagnostics, at least as far as I can tell from the test results.

I figured I probably should commit an internet faux pas and cross-post a message in the UltimateBootCD forum just in case someone here has had experience with the WD diagnostics and knows how to interpret the results. Here's the post, followed by a link to the UltimateBootCD forum:
**********************************************
Hello,
I'm using Ultimate Boot 5.2.5 for the first time. I'm trying to run the HDD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic Extended Test For DOS 5.20 (Western Digital) on a TiVo Series 3 HD DVR hard drive, model number WD2500BS 250GB. Currently it's connected to a Dell Dimension 8400 which boots from the UltimateBootCD.

What happens is that the Quick Test portion of the Extended Test will run. After that, instead of running the Full Media Scan, I get a message saying that I have to restart the system. When I do this, it's back to square one. No media scan is done and I have to try to start the extended test all over again.

Here's the exact sequence of messages at the end of the Quick Test:

"Warning! One or more current or worst-case attributes are below threshold"

"Hit ANY Key to continue"

(Key typed)

"The System Must be Reset - Hit CTRL-ALT-DEL or Turn the Power Off"

The wording of the first message suggests that test results lower than the threshold values indicate failure. However, things like Raw Read Error Rate are above the threshold value. Is this a pass or a fail? Seems like a high Raw Read Error Rate would be a failure, rather than a pass because it's not "below threshold."

In fact the only test that results in a "below threshold" value is the Seek Error Test. The rest of the results are all much higher than the listed Thresholds.

Here are the detailed results of the Quick Test (breaks in ID sequence are as reported here):

ID Name Value Thresh Worst

1. Raw Read Error Rate 200 51 200
3. Spin Up Time 193 21 193
4. Start/Stop Count 180 0 180
5. Re-allocated sector count 176 148 176
7. Seek Error Rate 1 51 1
9, Power-On Hours Count 34 0 34
10. Spin Retry Count 100 51 253
11. Drive Calibration Retry Count 100 51 253
12. Drive Power Cycle Count 100 8 100
190. Airflow Temperature 56 45 50
194. HDA Temperature 107 0 180
196. Re-Allocated Sector Event 99 0 99
197. Current Pending Sector Count 200 0 200
198. Offline Uncorrectable Sector Count 200 0 200
199. UltraDMA CRC Error Rate 200 0 200
200. Mutli Zone Error Rate 200 51 200

So is the Extended Test not running because of these results? Anyone have any ideas?

**********************************************

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14683&sid=183f4d74e8203c52587fc1a01543ce66

Thanks for your time,


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Just get a new drive.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

BOMOON--

The UBCD has something on there called PartedMagic.

It loads a GUI-type desktop.

It has a thing to click on that says disk health or something like that.

It'll show whatever hard drives are connected.

Then you can click the icon for your TiVo drive and click "details" and get some info that way.

But if the WD software can't get any further than that, it's time to replace the drive.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

ADG said:


> Just get a new drive.


A lot of fuss, eh? It's because I'm trying desperately to recover the recordings on that drive. If it weren't for that, I would have used the Occam's Razor principle at the first sign of trouble and bought a new drive right away.

At least by dragging out the whole issue like this, I got some great links for boot CD utilities and good deals for Plug & Play TiVo hard drives.

Now that I have those links, I'll take your advice and shop for a new drive and put recovery of the old recordings on the back burner. The good news is that I have the external expansion drive for the TiVo, so some of the recordings may be intact on that one. Time will tell.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

unitron said:


> But if the WD software can't get any further than that, it's time to replace the drive.


I just wanted to be sure it wasn't a problem with the WD software. It's too bad that the quick test results have that ambiguous "below threshold" message.

I'm still not sure the drive is actually bad, but I've decided after all this time to shop the recommended vendors for a plug and play TiVo drive. Checking out the old drive is being relegated to a background task.

Thanks to all for your help and the great links !!!


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

BOMOON said:


> A lot of fuss, eh? It's because I'm trying desperately to recover the recordings on that drive. If it weren't for that, I would have used the Occam's Razor principle at the first sign of trouble and bought a new drive right away.
> 
> At least by dragging out the whole issue like this, I got some great links for boot CD utilities and good deals for Plug & Play TiVo hard drives.
> 
> Now that I have those links, I'll take your advice and shop for a new drive and put recovery of the old recordings on the back burner. The good news is that I have the external expansion drive for the TiVo, so some of the recordings may be intact on that one. Time will tell.


My understanding is that Tivo does not save recordings on individual drives. They are striped across both drives.

At this point I would just keep both drives as-is and see what people say about recovering anything. I have recovered single drives using dd_rescue, but I'm not sure what the procedure is for an internal and external, if there is one.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

These excerpts from the TiVo forum FAQ suggest that upgrading the internal drive with one of the Weaknees or DVRDude plug & play drives will trash the expander eSATA interface, thus also trashing the content on the expander drive.

As WO312 has suggested, this may be a moot point. If the recordings really are "striped" across the two drives, upgrading the internal HDD would make the content on the expander drive unreadable.

More research.... sigh. I thought those Weaknees and DVDRDude drives might be a good option, but if they disable support for the eSATA expansion port, I may have to re-think my options.

Here are the FAQ excerpts from http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784&highlight=SATA

6. Can I add an eSATA drive if I previously upgraded the hard drive in my TiVo?

The new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work if you upgrade the built-in drive on the TiVoHD and Series3.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can also be found in Section IV, #10.

7. Can I add an eSATA drive to upgraded TiVos purchased from Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and other third parties?

As per the previous FAQ, the new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work on any upgraded TiVo. That includes all upgraded TiVos sold by Weaknees and DVRUpgrade. It does not matter who does the upgrade.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can be found in Section IV, #10 of this FAQ.

8. I already have a My DVR Expander connected. Can I upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive, without losing the recordings on the external drive?

No. You cannot upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive without losing all recordings on the external drive. You cannot upgrade the built-in drive until you disconnect and remove the My DVR Expander.

You can transfer unprotected recordings to another TiVo with MRV and/or download them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, you can transfer them back to the TiVo after the new drive upgrade.

Once you upgrade the built-in drive, the TiVo's "play and play" drive expansion no longer works.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

Not sure why you would be interested in an expansion drive. Just get a 2 TB upgrade and have the single drive. Much more capacity than you have now and only one hard drive to worry about.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

WO312 said:


> Not sure why you would be interested in an expansion drive. Just get a 2 TB upgrade and have the single drive. Much more capacity than you have now and only one hard drive to worry about.


As I said in my previous post,

"These excerpts from the TiVo forum FAQ suggest that upgrading the internal drive with one of the Weaknees or DVRDude plug & play drives will trash the expander eSATA interface, thus also trashing the content on the expander drive."

IOW, I'm only interested in trying to salvage the content on the existing expander drive. Once I do that (if I can), there certainly would be no need to continue using it if I have a 1TB or 2TB internal.


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## hangtime79 (May 23, 2005)

Interesting because I just had the same thing happen to me with my S3, infinite power loop. I didn't receive any pixelation ahead of time (what happened the last two times I pulled an S3 hard drive and rebuilt). So I walked down and got a WD-AV drive to replace it in the Tivo. I used WinMFS, built a truncated drive. This worked for about a week, the S3 then returned back to the infinite powering up loop even with a known clean drive. Curious I watched it and both times and the loops occurred after the second connection ie software download. Does anyone know what the current S3 image is and has a new system update been pushed in the last month? These issues for me started on 7/14.

Of course this could all be due to chance, but worth a shot.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

hangtime79 said:


> Interesting because I just had the same thing happen to me with my S3, infinite power loop. I didn't receive any pixelation ahead of time (what happened the last two times I pulled an S3 hard drive and rebuilt). So I walked down and got a WD-AV drive to replace it in the Tivo. I used WinMFS, built a truncated drive. This worked for about a week, the S3 then returned back to the infinite powering up loop even with a known clean drive. Curious I watched it and both times and the loops occurred after the second connection ie software download. Does anyone know what the current S3 image is and has a new system update been pushed in the last month? These issues for me started on 7/14.
> 
> Of course this could all be due to chance, but worth a shot.


For quite some time now the latest S3 software was version 11.0k

In maybe the past month or so they've started a slow rollout of 11.0m

I have no idea if this has anything to do with your troubles, but I would suggest you verify that there's nothing wrong with your power supply.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

hangtime79 said:


> Interesting because I just had the same thing happen to me with my S3, infinite power loop. I didn't receive any pixelation ahead of time (what happened the last two times I pulled an S3 hard drive and rebuilt). So I walked down and got a WD-AV drive to replace it in the Tivo. I used WinMFS, built a truncated drive. This worked for about a week, the S3 then returned back to the infinite powering up loop even with a known clean drive. Curious I watched it and both times and the loops occurred after the second connection ie software download. Does anyone know what the current S3 image is and has a new system update been pushed in the last month? These issues for me started on 7/14.
> 
> Of course this could all be due to chance, but worth a shot.


After re-installing the drive and re-connecting all the external cables, I've gotten the TiVo to reboot and run. It started out slow as hell compared to how it ran before it acted as though the hard drive was trashed.

Even though the performance was slow, I was able to access many of the previously recorded programs. There were no problems except for the slow response.

Then after about 20 minutes I tried to reconnect with the network.

It was a bad move on my part. After a few minutes I got a green screen telling me that the receiver had encountered a "serious problem" and was attempting to restart. IT added that I should not attempt to restart the receiver myself, and that if it was still stuck in this mode I should contact "customer support."

After an hour it's still locked up in this mode, doing nothing as far as I can tell.

At this point, the software version is:

11.0K-01-2-648

No date is given.

I still do not know what caused the original hangup during booting. What little I do know is that uninstalling the drive, running diagnostics which gave me ambiguous results, and re-installing the drive resulted in this somewhat successful startup sequence once I reconnected everything.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

unitron said:


> ...
> but I would suggest you verify that there's nothing wrong with your power supply.


Visual inspection of the caps and the underlying circuit board didn't indicate any problems.

The results of the Quick Test, which was performed in a PC with a different power supply, suggest problems that are internal to the drive. Unfortunately I'm not adept enough with electronics to try to verify PS performance with DVMs.

Since yesterday I've had mixed success trying to restart the S3 with the drive installed. Sometimes it finishes the boot, sometimes it stays stuck in "Welcome!". When it does finish the boot, response is slow and infrequently results in the GSOD (Green Screen of Death) that says "Your TiVo receiver has encountered a severe error and is attempting recovery."

Last night the S3 recovered from the GSOD by itself for whatever reason. I could accecss a number of randomly selected recordings in the "Now Playing List" - at least for a while. All the time I was doing this, the drive made loud clicking noises (as it did during the Quick Test on the PC) and the response was slow.

Based on the experience with running the Quick Test on the drive using a different PS, I think it's most likely a problem that's internal to the drive.

Before I trash it though, I'm going to wait for the responses from TiVo and WDC customer support.

Thanks for your time and input,


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

BOMOON said:


> Visual inspection of the caps and the underlying circuit board didn't indicate any problems.
> 
> The results of the Quick Test, which was performed in a PC with a different power supply, suggest problems that are internal to the drive. Unfortunately I'm not adept enough with electronics to try to verify PS performance with DVMs.
> 
> ...


That drive needs to be copied to another drive right now, 'cause it aint' got long to live.


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## BOMOON (Dec 12, 2004)

unitron said:


> That drive needs to be copied to another drive right now, 'cause it aint' got long to live.


I have the space for it on a few of my PC HDDs but don't know how to make copies from a non-Windows file system. I'll check the Ultimate Boot CD to see if there's some sort of copy utility there.

I remember being able to access the S3's web server at one time but there was no efficient way to directly download the files via the LAN. The best I could do was copy individual recorded programs as *.TIVO files, which were highly compressed and unwatchable in HD.

That was a long time ago though. Are there ways to download S3 recordings via LAN these days?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

BOMOON said:


> I have the space for it on a few of my PC HDDs but don't know how to make copies from a non-Windows file system. I'll check the Ultimate Boot CD to see if there's some sort of copy utility there.
> 
> I remember being able to access the S3's web server at one time but there was no efficient way to directly download the files via the LAN. The best I could do was copy individual recorded programs as *.TIVO files, which were highly compressed and unwatchable in HD.
> 
> That was a long time ago though. Are there ways to download S3 recordings via LAN these days?


As far as I know there's no way to copy shows any faster than one .tivo file at a time, but the quality shouldn't be any less once the file is copied back to another TiVo.

I watch television on a television, so I've never paid any attention to how it looked playing on a PC.

But when I was talking about copying the drive, I meant "Xeroxing" it to another hard drive that would replace it in the TiVo, or at least serve as a place to save the "Xerox" of the drive until you could then "Xerox" it to the replacement drive of your choice.

Do you have another hard drive around at least as big as the one in the TiVo, and with nothing on it that needs saving?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

BOMOON said:


> I have the space for it on a few of my PC HDDs but don't know how to make copies from a non-Windows file system. I'll check the Ultimate Boot CD to see if there's some sort of copy utility there.
> 
> I remember being able to access the S3's web server at one time but there was no efficient way to directly download the files via the LAN. The best I could do was copy individual recorded programs as *.TIVO files, which were highly compressed and unwatchable in HD.
> 
> That was a long time ago though. Are there ways to download S3 recordings via LAN these days?


Alan,

Not sure what you were using to transfer the shows before but as Unitron mentioned there's no difference in the quality of the .TiVo file when transferred to a PC and either watched there or transferred back to the same or another TiVo via TiVo Desktop or pytivo. Sounds like you were transcoding the file at some how (mobile format perhaps?).

In terms of making a copy of the drive, you should be able to use the Windows program DvrBARS to make a copy to your PC if you have enough disk space available that could be restored to another hard drive.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503261

Scott


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

HerronScott said:


> In terms of making a copy of the drive, you should be able to use the Windows program DvrBARS to make a copy to your PC if you have enough disk space available that could be restored to another hard drive.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=503261


If you use DvrBARS I would recommend using the Modified Full backup mode in your case. That way you'll keep all of your recordings without wasting the disk space to back up unused sectors.

It will continue if it hits a bad spot, but it pops up an error message message every time and you may have to babysit the process.


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