# TWC and Cablecards: Why is it still hard?



## bgmncwj (Mar 25, 2004)

I know it's crazy to expect, but why aren't we beyond the point where ordering cable cards is difficult? I decided to jump on a TWC promo for only $12 more add HBO and basic cable to my internet plan. Figured I might as well get some use out of the TiVo Roamio Plus is storage. Placed the order online via their website, selected the cable card option, the order looked good, it listed the SDV box and everything. This is going to be as painless as it should be! I noticed I hadn't gotten any confirmation since yesterday so I gave the online chat a shot:



> ...
> James: Ok, let me check the notation why it still here. I'll be pulling up your account please stay connected Chad.
> You: Sounds good, thanks
> James: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
> ...


I had hoped that it wouldn't take my "luck" to get it ordered and processed correctly and that by going online it'd remove the human component. Now hopefully I'll get the correct parts in the mail!  Maybe one day getting cablecards will be as easy as picking up a cablebox.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Yes that day will come -- when they stop using CableCARD for anything and they become worthless historical relics. But as long as you get your cable TV via a local monopoly there will be some form of poor customer experience to deal with.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

I'd be curious how much it actually adds to your monthly bill. I am internet only with TWC in Los Angeles and their website says $10 for starter for 12 months for me as an existing customer, but I wonder how much it actually would cost. I know the city has a $5/mth franchise fee and there is the cable card charge $2.50 or $4.00 and then a whole bunch of maybes - Broadcast TV surcharge $2.75, Sports Programming surcharge $2.75, outlet charge, taxes. It adds up quick.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

jth tv said:


> I'd be curious how much it actually adds to your monthly bill. I am internet only with TWC in Los Angeles and their website says $10 for starter for 12 months for me as an existing customer, but I wonder how much it actually would cost. I know the city has a $5/mth franchise fee and there is the cable card charge $2.50 or $4.00 and then a whole bunch of maybes - Broadcast TV surcharge $2.75, Sports Programming surcharge $2.75, outlet charge, taxes. It adds up quick.


The only way to know is to actually order a bundle. TWC always has promotional pricing that you usually have to pressure them to get (by doing the ritual dance of threatening to quit TWC). There is no way to separate out the additional cost of running TiVo (other than CableCARD rental) that they can hide in these promotional bundles. If you don't get a promotion deal you are paying way too much. They distribute a price list but I can't imagine anyone actually pays those prices.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Hmm. I've had no problem just going to the stores and picking up the equipment here in SE Wisconsin. Sometimes I've had to chase to more than one store (once I had to hit Mayfair, Southridge, *and* West Allis) but I've been able to pick up the equipment nonetheless.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I had no problem ordering a CableCard the other week via the web interface.
They even offered to ship it to me free.

However, the pickup and installation was something of an ordeal.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10355859#post10355859


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah ordering the card is easy, getting it installed is another story. I've had it take anywhere from 5 minutes to several days, and several visits from a tech. The purpose of the integration ban in the original legislation was to make it so the setup of a 3rd party device was the same as a leased box. But the MSOs found a loophole in that. They pre-pair the cards to their boxes and use a completely different interface for the CSR to activate the box which hides most of the complexity. So setting up a leased box requires nothing more then flipping a switch, whereas setting up a 3rd party box requires them to enter a bunch of random numbers which can easily get typoed and cause problems. And usually their first reaction when there is a problem is to blame the device, not the card.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Yeah ordering the card is easy, getting it installed is another story. I've had it take anywhere from 5 minutes to several days, and several visits from a tech. The purpose of the integration ban in the original legislation was to make it so the setup of a 3rd party device was the same as a leased box. But the MSOs found a loophole in that. They pre-pair the cards to their boxes and use a completely different interface for the CSR to activate the box which hides most of the complexity. So setting up a leased box requires nothing more then flipping a switch, whereas setting up a 3rd party box requires them to enter a bunch of random numbers which can easily get typoed and cause problems. And usually their first reaction when there is a problem is to blame the device, not the card.


I agree.
It shouldn't be more complicated than adding a STB or other device to Netflix or Amazon Video.

But the cable companies deliberately make this hard and then pay lip service to "openess".


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## Logic129 (Nov 29, 2014)

If you are "Internet Only" with TWC and have trouble pairing your cablecard and tuning adapter, you may have a digital filter installed on your line to prevent you from getting free TV. You can check this by installing the cable direct to your TV and see if you get any channels.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Until the package arrives, I'd still be afraid that it'll actually be a BOX and no CableCARD. It's also possible that there is some sort of on-demand component. Of course, the most likely explanation is the usual TWC CableCARD hate.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

If you don't have a TiVo and need cable cards, then you wind up paying them rent each month on some sort of cable box. They like that better, so they have (or think they have) no incentive to do more for TiVo owners/cable card users than absolutely forced to by law or FCC reg.


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## RyanOH81 (Jan 4, 2015)

dlfl said:


> The only way to know is to actually order a bundle. TWC always has promotional pricing that you usually have to pressure them to get (by doing the ritual dance of threatening to quit TWC). There is no way to separate out the additional cost of running TiVo (other than CableCARD rental) that they can hide in these promotional bundles. If you don't get a promotion deal you are paying way too much. They distribute a price list but I can't imagine anyone actually pays those prices.


Question about bundles: I currently have a TWC bundle that is $89 that includes set top boxes and EPIX on demand. The prices for each of these isn't broken out. If I want to get a TiVo and turn in both of my boxes and get rid of EPIX (since I won't be able to use on demand and don't use it anyways) are they likely to be able to find a package that would actually lower my cost? The ones on their website don't seem "customizable" (i.e. being able to remove items in the package.) Obviously I only want to buy a TiVo if I can save money by no longer renting set top boxes and paying for DVR service (which is listed separate, so I know i can cancel it).


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

RyanOH81 said:


> Question about bundles: I currently have a TWC bundle that is $89 that includes set top boxes and EPIX on demand. The prices for each of these isn't broken out. If I want to get a TiVo and turn in both of my boxes and get rid of EPIX (since I won't be able to use on demand and don't use it anyways) are they likely to be able to find a package that would actually lower my cost? The ones on their website don't seem "customizable" (i.e. being able to remove items in the package.) Obviously I only want to buy a TiVo if I can save money by no longer renting set top boxes and paying for DVR service (which is listed separate, so I know i can cancel it).


Keep your current package and fill this form out:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/r...t/topics/tv/cablecard/byob-discount-form.html

They'll charge you the $89, then apply a discount to make up for the box.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

I may regret asking this, but how do you even get the cable company to send you a cable card and activate it if you have internet only?

We have internet only and I know we can get almost all the channels free by connecting the cable line to a television, although we use a rooftop antenna right now.



Logic129 said:


> If you are "Internet Only" with TWC and have trouble pairing your cablecard and tuning adapter, you may have a digital filter installed on your line to prevent you from getting free TV. You can check this by installing the cable direct to your TV and see if you get any channels.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> I may regret asking this, but how do you even get the cable company to send you a cable card and activate it if you have internet only?
> 
> We have internet only and I know we can get almost all the channels free by connecting the cable line to a television, although we use a rooftop antenna right now.


You can buy a CableCard on ebay to do the channel mapping for the clear QAM channels so that the guide data will line up correctly.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Thank you.

Huh, I had no idea.



tarheelblue32 said:


> You can buy a CableCard on ebay to do the channel mapping for the clear QAM channels so that the guide data will line up correctly.


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## bgmncwj (Mar 25, 2004)

LoadStar said:


> Hmm. I've had no problem just going to the stores and picking up the equipment here in SE Wisconsin. Sometimes I've had to chase to more than one store (once I had to hit Mayfair, Southridge, *and* West Allis) but I've been able to pick up the equipment nonetheless.


When I first signed up in April (I since cancelled cable and returned everything and am now coming back) they swore up and down on the phone that they had to mail out the cable card and they were available everywhere in TWC's footprint except for WI over the counter so I had them mail them out. When I filed an FCC complaint I got a form letter response that didn't actually match my complaint. Maybe that's changed and maybe they were just blowing smoke originally. If I don't see my cablecard by Tuesday or so I'll run down to the local office (Kenosha) and check.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> You can buy a CableCard on ebay to do the channel mapping for the clear QAM channels so that the guide data will line up correctly.


Until Time Warner stops transmitting clear QAM, like they did in my area.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

And they very well may here. Right now I know I can get all channels except NBC by connecting to a cable line with internet only service. I also get a couple of stations that I don't get OTA like Hallmark.

Granted, I haven't tried it for over a year, so it may be different now.

I remember back in the day you could buy a cable descrambler box (no ebay, then but I would see them for sale in the Recycler) and get everything cable offered and not have to pay for them.



JYoung said:


> Until Time Warner stops transmitting clear QAM, like they did in my area.


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## RyanOH81 (Jan 4, 2015)

LoadStar said:


> Keep your current package and fill this form out:
> 
> They'll charge you the $89, then apply a discount to make up for the box.


Is there any way to know how much they would deduct? Can they even tell you over the phone or will the CSRs be clueless?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

LoadStar said:


> Keep your current package and fill this form out:
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/r...t/topics/tv/cablecard/byob-discount-form.html
> 
> They'll charge you the $89, then apply a discount to make up for the box.


I would be absolutely shocked if TWC ever actually gave someone a credit who just filled out that form. If I had to guess, I'd say that the information filled out in that from either goes nowhere or it goes into some unused email inbox somewhere that is never looked at. I tried filling out that form on two different occasions to get the credit for my package, and never heard anything back from them and never saw any credit appear on my bill. I thought about filing an FCC complaint about it, but I didn't feel like fighting that battle.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I would be shocked if TWC ever actually gave someone a credit who just filling out that form. If I had to guess, I'd say that the information filled out in that from either goes nowhere or it goes into some unused email inbox somewhere that is never looked at. I tried filling out that form on two different occasions to get the credit for my package, and never heard anything back from them and never saw any credit appear on my bill. I thought about filing an FCC complaint about it, but I didn't feel like fighting that battle.


+1 Just read the wording near the beginning of that form. Double and triple play bundles? With their bundles and promotions, which are continually changing and not publicly documented anywhere, they can weasel out of this easily.

Long ago I challenged anyone on this forum to post a case where they actually got a refund this way. IIRC no one stepped up. Even if you got them to make an adjustment I doubt it is any better than what you can get in a promotional rate that you can get about any time by threatening to quit.

This is an example of the practical limits of government regulations that try to micromanage behavior that cannot be practically enforced.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dlfl said:


> This is an example of the practical limits of government regulations that try to micromanage behavior that cannot be practically enforced.


It is also an example of how I will put up with TWC's BS like this because they are a virtual monopoly and I have no good alternatives. I can only imagine how much worse TWC would behave if there were no FCC regulations at all.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

True on both counts.

For internet we get TWC or TWC.



tarheelblue32 said:


> It is also an example of how I will put up with TWC's BS like this because they are a virtual monopoly and I have no good alternatives. I can only imagine how much worse TWC would behave if there were no FCC regulations at all.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

JYoung said:


> Until Time Warner stops transmitting clear QAM, like they did in my area.


Yep. My understanding is that will happen where I live sometime in 2015.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

DawnW said:


> I may regret asking this, but how do you even get the cable company to send you a cable card and activate it if you have internet only?
> 
> We have internet only and I know we can get almost all the channels free by connecting the cable line to a television, although we use a rooftop antenna right now.


Technically, you aren't getting those channels for free. Either those are analog or non-encrypted digital channels which are part of a package deal of internet and some super basic cable channel deal, which means you're actually paying for them (even though the bundle may be cheaper than if you were subscribed to only internet--assuming they'll even let you do that), or else you are not on their books as paying for them, and if that's the case, it's what is known legally as "Theft of Service", and if that were occurring, TWC would be within their rights to come after you about it in court.

You should go back and check all the paperwork associated with your TWC internet subscription, trudge through all the fine print with a magnifying glass, and see if you're actually on the books as paying for any kind of television service at all. In the past, in some markets, cable TV companies offering internet have had things arranged so that some sort of minimum cable tv subscription was part of the deal when you signed up for internet service, whether you wanted it or not.

I don't know if it's still that way or if there are any sort of actual laws and/or regulations (as opposed to just cable company policies) governing that issue.

I'm still on analog TWC cable (they haven't quite finished crippling it yet), so have no direct experience with cable cards, but as I understand it from reading here at TCF over the past few years, there are basically 2 different "brands" of cable cards, from 2 different manufacturers, and if you're using a cable card to enable receiving the encrypted digital cable channels, you have to use the card whose brand corresponds to the brand of the equipment at the cable company's head end with which your cable card will be interacting.

Whether that is necessary for a card just for mapping the non-encrypted channels, I'm not sure, but you should check on that before buying a black market one online somewhere.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

unitron said:


> Technically, you aren't getting those channels for free. Either those are analog or non-encrypted digital channels which are part of a package deal of internet and some super basic cable channel deal, which means you're actually paying for them (even though the bundle may be cheaper than if you were subscribed to only internet--assuming they'll even let you do that), or else you are not on their books as paying for them, and if that's the case, it's what is known legally as "Theft of Service", and if that were occurring, TWC would be within their rights to come after you about it in court.


It is very unlikely that TWC would be able to successfully sue someone for their own incompetence. If one of their techs forgot to put a trap on the line and is allowing unencrypted basic cable channels to come through the internet line, that's their problem. And they would never know that you were viewing those unencrypted channels anyway unless you called them up and told them.

And even if there is a trap on the line, some digital channels might still be coming through. About a year ago a TWC tech came and put a trap on my line by mistake, and even with the trap in place I was still getting about 30% of the digital channels coming through just fine.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

And this is why I thought I would regret asking......I would be accused of stealing.

I decided to run the channel search this am on a cable line run to a TV. *As I said, I don't use it, I have an antenna on my roof.* Anyway, my channel search came up with over 20 channels, lots of home sales type shows, QVC, HSN and the like. It has all the major networks except NBC, so I am sure this is not included in my internet package or it would include all of the networks.

They are indeed HD channels and not analog. Some channels come in twice, so it isn't like I am getting an actual 20+ channels. I get far more channels OTA with an antenna.

It was simply a curiosity, not a "please tell me how to steal from the cable company" thing. I was surprised that a cable card would work at all if not purchased directly from the cable company.

Dawn



unitron said:


> Technically, you aren't getting those channels for free. Either those are analog or non-encrypted digital channels which are part of a package deal of internet and some super basic cable channel deal, which means you're actually paying for them (even though the bundle may be cheaper than if you were subscribed to only internet--assuming they'll even let you do that), or else you are not on their books as paying for them, and if that's the case, it's what is known legally as "Theft of Service", and if that were occurring, TWC would be within their rights to come after you about it in court.
> 
> You should go back and check all the paperwork associated with your TWC internet subscription, trudge through all the fine print with a magnifying glass, and see if you're actually on the books as paying for any kind of television service at all. In the past, in some markets, cable TV companies offering internet have had things arranged so that some sort of minimum cable tv subscription was part of the deal when you signed up for internet service, whether you wanted it or not.
> 
> ...


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> I was surprised that a cable card would work at all if not purchased directly from the cable company.
> Dawn


As I said above, it will work to map the unencrypted channels to the correct channel number, but that's about it. You can't use it to decrypt any encrypted channels.

And I, for one, don't consider it stealing even if you were watching the unencrypted channels that the cable company is sending into your home.


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

tarheelblue32 said:


> And I, for one, don't consider it stealing even if you were watching the unencrypted channels that the cable company is sending into your home.


Watching unencrypted channels is not stealing. It was a federal regulation that ensured your access to certain channels. You are just using your legal rights.

That said, the law recently changed. The Fcc has given now cable companies the option of encrypting every single channel in the lineup. Previously the law required the broadcast stations int he local designated market area be unenecrypted. So don't get too comfortable, because they will probably start encrypting them any month now.

So once they are encrypted, you cannot legally bypass the encryption (you probably couldn't from a technical standpoint anyway). But until that date, you may freely choose or not choose to watch them. Pay no attention to anyone who tells you that you are stealing.

BTW: the *old* federal regulation required unencrypted local stations even if you only pay for "internet only".


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Pacomartin said:


> However, the Fcc has given now cable companies the option of encrypting every single channel in the lineup. Previously the law required the broadcast stations int he local designated market area be unenecrypted. So don't get too comfortable, because they will probably start encrypting them any month now.


That's fine. And now that cable companies have the legal right to encrypt all channels, if they choose not to encrypt certain channels, then they have absolutely no right to complain if people watch those unencrypted channels without paying for them.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

well, I don't either.

One thing I do notice is that the cable unencrypted channels come in a bit weird. Some commercials are smaller on the screen and are surrounded by black on all sides, some shows and commercials are shown in the old sizing and do not fill the entire HD screen, etc....

At least with an Antenna, it seems to be more uniform.

Dawn



tarheelblue32 said:


> As I said above, it will work to map the unencrypted channels to the correct channel number, but that's about it. You can't use it to decrypt any encrypted channels.
> 
> *And I, for one, don't consider it stealing even if you were watching the unencrypted channels that the cable company is sending into your home.*


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

DawnW said:


> well, I don't either.
> 
> One thing I do notice is that the cable unencrypted channels come in a bit weird. Some commercials are smaller on the screen and are surrounded by black on all sides, some shows and commercials are shown in the old sizing and do not fill the entire HD screen, etc....
> 
> ...


Are you sure you're not watching the SD channel on cable?


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Pacomartin said:


> Watching unencrypted channels is not stealing. It was a federal regulation that ensured your access to certain channels. You are just using your legal rights.


Umm, NO. Cable TV is a service for which a person must pay to receive. While it's true that the locals were previously required to be sent unencrypted, you have always had to pay for those channels. Free local broadcast channels via a private cable company's coax is not an right. That's what an antenna and OTA are for.

If you are an internet only customer of a cable company, or a new tenant to a residence for which the cable company never completely disconnected service and hook up your TV's to the coax and watch the Clear QAM channels, that is 100% theft of service. Sure, the cable company is at fault for not placing a trap on the line or disconnecting service at the pole, but purposeful viewing of those channels without paying is theft. I'm stating a simple fact, not casting judgement upon anyone.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

tatergator1 said:


> Umm, NO. Cable TV is a service for which a person must pay to receive. While it's true that the locals were previously required to be sent unencrypted, you have always had to pay for those channels. Free local broadcast channels via a private cable company's coax is not an right. That's what an antenna and OTA are for.
> 
> If you are an internet only customer of a cable company, or a new tenant to a residence for which the cable company never completely disconnected service and hook up your TV's to the coax and watch the Clear QAM channels, that is 100% theft of service. Sure, *the cable company is at fault for not placing a trap on the line or disconnecting service at the pole*, but purposeful viewing of those channels without paying is theft. I'm stating a simple fact, not casting judgement upon anyone.


I agree with you that the cable company is at fault. The cable company is the one sending these stray signals into your home unencrypted, so you aren't "stealing service", they are giving it to you unintentionally.

Now if you were to go out to the cable company's locked box at the street and break into it and remove the trap, then yes you would be stealing service then. But plugging a coax cable into the back of your TV to see what happens isn't stealing anything.

This is exactly why the whole encryption system and CableCards were implemented, and why cable companies are now allowed to encrypt all channels, to prevent people from being able to watch cable channels without paying for them. If cable companies choose not to take advantage of the security system, that's their problem.

If I go to a restaurant, and the server forgets to charge me for a drink that I ordered on my bill, I didn't steal anything. If I go into Walmart and the cashier or automated checkout machine gives me back too much money in change, I didn't steal anything. Now maybe it would be nice of me to point out the server's or cashier's mistake to them and pay more, but it isn't stealing if I don't do it.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

I think most are. The screen says HD. There are some that don't say or say SD, so they aren't all HD, but most are.



lpwcomp said:


> Are you sure you're not watching the SD channel on cable?


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If I go to a restaurant, and the server forgets to charge me for a drink that I ordered on my bill, I didn't steal anything. If I go into Walmart and the cashier or automated checkout machine gives me back too much money in change, I didn't steal anything. Now maybe it would be nice of me to point out the server's or cashier's mistake to them and pay more, but it isn't stealing if I don't do it.


Perhaps. There's a fine line in the sand between the morality of the situation and the strict categorization from a legal standpoint. I would deem none of these as morally right. Are any of them illegal, perhaps not. However, when either mistake were realized, the restaurant or Walmart would be within their rights to demand compensation for the omissions/overages, just as the cable company would be within it's right to demand payment for the consumption of TV service without a paid subscription (or escalate further via a lawsuit, etc. if they really wanted to be jerks. It's theft or service, the Cable company is incompetent for allowing the signal to be consumed, and the ultimate outcome rests on how litigious the cable company wants to be over it's own mistake.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

I would even argue that the channels are even more "not stealing."

Given your scenarios, the employee of the company made a mistake.

With TWC, the entire company let this slide, not just an accidental employee giving me something I didn't pay for.



tarheelblue32 said:


> If I go to a restaurant, and the server forgets to charge me for a drink that I ordered on my bill, I didn't steal anything. If I go into Walmart and the cashier or automated checkout machine gives me back too much money in change, I didn't steal anything. Now maybe it would be nice of me to point out the server's or cashier's mistake to them and pay more, but it isn't stealing if I don't do it.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

tatergator1 said:


> Perhaps. There's a fine line in the sand between the morality of the situation and the strict categorization from a legal standpoint. I would deem none of these as morally right. Are any of them illegal, perhaps not. However, when either mistake were realized, the restaurant or Walmart would be within their rights to demand compensation for the omissions/overages, just as the cable company would be within it's right to demand payment for the consumption of TV service without a paid subscription (or escalate further via a lawsuit, etc. if they really wanted to be jerks. It's theft or service, the Cable company is incompetent for allowing the signal to be consumed, and the ultimate outcome rests on how litigious the cable company wants to be over it's own mistake.


Perhaps theoretically they could, but they would have to be able to prove in court that you were watching the channels, and there is no way for them to do that.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I might argue that the cable companies deliberately created this situation so they could make a case with the FCC for encryption of locals and just incidentally eventually start charging for every connection, which is a step beyond what they had many years before when they charged for every outlet.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

TWC wants to make TiVo users' lives as miserable as possible, and will take every means legally possible to do so. SDV is a legitimate bandwidth saver, but they don't try to make the TAs work properly, they just let them fail, knowing their own boxes work fine. And there is absolutely no reason that they should be setting the copy flags on everything that they can get away with, that is just an anti-competitive move against TiVo, plain and simple.

Comcast, OTOH, is quite friendly to TiVo, with XoD and all.



tarheelblue32 said:


> It is very unlikely that TWC would be able to successfully sue someone for their own incompetence. If one of their techs forgot to put a trap on the line and is allowing unencrypted basic cable channels to come through the internet line, that's their problem. And they would never know that you were viewing those unencrypted channels anyway unless you called them up and told them.
> 
> And even if there is a trap on the line, some digital channels might still be coming through. About a year ago a TWC tech came and put a trap on my line by mistake, and even with the trap in place I was still getting about 30% of the digital channels coming through just fine.


Yeah, there's no way TWC could sue for that. Plus, it's basically only local channels anyway. They will probably go the direction that Comcast did eventually, and encrypt everything, and remove all the traps. I just wish Comcast would have left something in ClearQAM for troubleshooting, I could put up with QVC selling jewelry for a few minutes if I had CableCard issues.



lpwcomp said:


> If I were a conspiracy theorist, I might argue that the cable companies deliberately created this situation so they could make a case with the FCC for encryption of locals and just incidentally eventually start charging for every connection, which is a step beyond what they had many years before when they charged for every outlet.


You're a few years late on that one. Comcast did it about a year ago where I am. Cable theft was a real problem in some markets (Detroit).


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> I just wish Comcast would have left something in ClearQAM for troubleshooting, I could put up with QVC selling jewelry for a few minutes if I had CableCard issues.


That's the one thing I will miss about the analog cable when TWC goes all digital in my area next year. The analog is great for visually checking on the quality of the signal without requiring any fancy testing equipment.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Bigg said:


> You're a few years late on that one. Comcast did it about a year ago where I am. Cable theft was a real problem in some markets (Detroit).


Not late with anything. They started encrypting everything here almost before the "ink dried" on the waiver they needed at the time.

I was referring to what they _*did*_, not what they are doing.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> That's the one thing I will miss about the analog cable when TWC goes all digital in my area next year. The analog is great for visually checking on the quality of the signal without requiring any fancy testing equipment.


That's an interesting point. Analog is almost too forgiving though, as it will mostly work where digital just won't work.



lpwcomp said:


> I was referring to what they _*did*_, not what they are doing.


Oh, you made it sound like encryption was something that would happen in the future, not something that already happened.


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## bgmncwj (Mar 25, 2004)

So sure enough online ordering/chat messed up just about every part of the order. I finally gave up and went to find a cablecard/tuning adapter locally today since after 8 days none ever showed, only took two stops but I did find one.

Got home, get everything plugged in a called up TWC cable card pairing department. Get an awesome guy on the phone and within a few minutes we figure out that there was no work order placed to remove the TV trap from the line and in fact my cablecard can't find a signal. For about 20 minutes he works with a billing rep to get an work order entered and soonest they can get out to remove the filter is the 13th (yep, another week). The nice part was enough though my service officially became active today, he pro-actively issued a credit since I won't be able to use it until they get the trap removed.

Just to double check I asked to confirm the promotion that I added and sure enough it's the wrong one, I'm being charged an extra $10/mo. Transferred to billing and she had to open a ticket to get the campaign corrected.

At this point I'm impressed an "average" consumer would have managed to get TV service without just giving up. Heck the ball was dropped so many times here I'm not even sure getting a regular cable box would've been any easier.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bgmncwj said:


> Got home, get everything plugged in a called up TWC cable card pairing department. Get an awesome guy on the phone...


I've had really good interactions with the folks at the dedicated TWC CableCard hotline. They are the only people at TWC that seem to be at all competent or helpful.


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## bgmncwj (Mar 25, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I've had really good interactions with the folks an the dedicated TWC CableCard hotline. They are the only people at TWC that seem to be at all competent or helpful.


Yeah this guy was great, he did everything he could, apologized profusely for the screw up and knew exactly what he was talking about.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bgmncwj said:


> Yeah this guy was great, he did everything he could, apologized profusely for the screw up and knew exactly what he was talking about.


Well, just hang in there. I had my own trials in getting my Roamio set up and working with TWC's systems, but the good news is that once you finally get everything working properly it usually keeps working.


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## prley (Jan 9, 2015)

Holly crap I couldn't agree more about TWC and Cable Cards.

I started my process almost a week ago.

1. Sunday: First I called customer support to find out how to order a cable card. 
Answer: stop at your loc office and pick up a card. Wow that sounds easy.
2. Monday: stop at the local office put my name in on the waiting list. 30 min later the woman at the counter says "We don't do that here you need to order one online" WTF. On my way home I go to my account and find a way to order a cable card online barried under new equipment. I select free shipping to my local cable co office.
Later that evening I get a email saying they can't process my order to call customer service.
I call customer service they try hard to send me back to my local cable co office which is now closed. I tell them they don't carry cable cards and I was to order one online. Start of a big circle of conversation, they even tried me to go to another office further away. 2 hours later they forward me to a cable card specialist and we decide shipping to my address is the only answer. He gladly gives me a $5 discount from the $10 service fee and says it will take 3-5 business days.
3. Friday - I call to see where my order is. Nothing has been done and I should got to my local office, another circle of conversation begins and ends with we don't offer cable cards anymore. I say WHAT and demand to be sent to a supervisor. I get a cable card specialist again tells me sorry figures out he can't send one to the local office tells me he'll waive the service fee and gives me a work order number this time to folloup on.

Now I'll have to call early next week to see what they tell me this time.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Go complain at the FCC. that often gets things moving.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jrtroo said:


> Go complain at the FCC. that often gets things moving.


+1

Don't let them get away with this BS. Go file an FCC complaint:

https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us

They are legally required to give you a CableCard and allow you to do a self-install.


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## prley (Jan 9, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> +1
> 
> Don't let them get away with this BS. Go file an FCC complaint:
> 
> ...


done and done.


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## Willdav713 (Jun 20, 2013)

dlfl said:


> +1 Just read the wording near the beginning of that form. Double and triple play bundles? With their bundles and promotions, which are continually changing and not publicly documented anywhere, they can weasel out of this easily.
> 
> Long ago I challenged anyone on this forum to post a case where they actually got a refund this way. IIRC no one stepped up. Even if you got them to make an adjustment I doubt it is any better than what you can get in a promotional rate that you can get about any time by threatening to quit.
> 
> This is an example of the practical limits of government regulations that try to micromanage behavior that cannot be practically enforced.


I have gotten credit for my Tivo, It took 1 month after filling out the BYOB form to get. I had the Standard TV + Standard Internet package, 1 Tivo device and Digital Transport Adapter, 1 Time Warner Set Top Box, and 1 Digital Tuning Adapter, This was in 2013, at an apt in Northwest Austin,Texas. Got a $10.00 credit each month but still had to pay an A/O distribution fee of $1.00 for the Tivo Cable Card, and the Tuning Adapter. Now they have doubled the price for the A/O distribution fee. These days Direct TV is looking better and better until AT&T starts screwing them up.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Willdav713 said:


> I have gotten credit for my Tivo, It took 1 month after filling out the BYOB form to get. I had the Standard TV + Standard Internet package, 1 Tivo device and Digital Transport Adapter, 1 Time Warner Set Top Box, and 1 Digital Tuning Adapter, This was in 2013, at an apt in Northwest Austin,Texas. Got a $10.00 credit each month but still had to pay an A/O distribution fee of $1.00 for the Tivo Cable Card, and the Tuning Adapter. Now they have doubled the price for the A/O distribution fee. These days Direct TV is looking better and better until AT&T starts screwing them up.


You don't get an actual net credit (compared to the deal they offer customers without TiVo's) just because they list one on your invoice. That's naive, like thinking all vehicles will be going 65mph or less because that is the posted speed limit.


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