# What happens to this forum when no more D* TIVO boxes?



## allenn (Jan 24, 2003)

I was wondering what will happen to this forum when there are no more D* TIVO boxes? I hope that D* will see the error in its ways and build a TIVO DVR. I have an HR21, and I think it sucks!:down: I don't like the remote or the OS.:down: The HR21 system is not intuitive. I'm only glad that some of the guru's created a Tips and Tricks manual for the HR2X series which I keep handy just to operate the thing (never needed a manual for my HR10). I paid $1000 for my HR10 and nothing for the HR21. I would be happy to pay for TIVO service on any box.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

allenn said:


> I was wondering what will happen to this forum when there are no more D* TIVO boxes? .


per the new sticky, we can all talk about our HR20's and 21's.


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## allenn (Jan 24, 2003)

fjwagner said:


> .......we can all talk about our HR20's and 21's.


Great news, because I like this forum better than dbstalk.com. Thanks for the reply.:up:


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Considering there's still Ultimate TV receivers in use, I doubt there's going to be a time in the foreseeable future when there are no DirecTV DVR w/TiVo receivers in use.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Although non-TiVo talk is now allowed, there is a whole lot more info on DBSTalk. It will take awhile before the answers found there will migrate here.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

allenn said:


> (never needed a manual for my HR10).


If you have no manual (assuming you mean you never read tips and tricks here either) then you probably don't know half of what your HR10 can do.

Let's see.....what happens if you hit the Tivo button then the number 1? If you know that, you read it here or elsewhere because it is not intuitive nor on the screen. If you didn't read it anywhere, then you don't know what it can do.

Don't assume that because someone was nice enough to document stuff that is either obvious (some of it already on the screen like jump 12 hours by hitting the red button) or non-obvious that the GUI is non-inuitive. I learned Tivo stuff over a six month period. If it was all in one place, I would have learned it earlier.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> If you have no manual (assuming you mean you never read tips and tricks here either) then you probably don't know half of what your HR10 can do.
> 
> Let's see.....what happens if you hit the Tivo button then the number 1? If you know that, you read it here or elsewhere because it is not intuitive nor on the screen. If you didn't read it anywhere, then you don't know what it can do.
> 
> Don't assume that because someone was nice enough to document stuff that is either obvious (some of it already on the screen like jump 12 hours by hitting the red button) or non-obvious that the GUI is non-inuitive. I learned Tivo stuff over a six month period. If it was all in one place, I would have learned it earlier.


Good way to put him in his place, Tony. Just because someone says something good about the HR10-250, but not so good about the HR20, you guys from the HR20 army come storming in to point out how misconceived they are - nice job as usual. We can always count on the HR20 army.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

allenn said:


> I was wondering what will happen to this forum when there are no more D* TIVO boxes? I hope that D* will see the error in its ways and build a TIVO DVR. I have an HR21, and I think it sucks!:down: I don't like the remote or the OS.:down: The HR21 system is not intuitive. I'm only glad that some of the guru's created a Tips and Tricks manual for the HR2X series which I keep handy just to operate the thing (never needed a manual for my HR10). I paid $1000 for my HR10 and nothing for the HR21. I would be happy to pay for TIVO service on any box.


I think eyeballs are encouraged here - whether it's related directly to the DirecTV HD Tiivo or not.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> If you have no manual (assuming you mean you never read tips and tricks here either) then you probably don't know half of what your HR10 can do.
> 
> Let's see.....what happens if you hit the Tivo button then the number 1? If you know that, you read it here or elsewhere because it is not intuitive nor on the screen. If you didn't read it anywhere, then you don't know what it can do.
> 
> Don't assume that because someone was nice enough to document stuff that is either obvious (some of it already on the screen like jump 12 hours by hitting the red button) or non-obvious that the GUI is non-inuitive. I learned Tivo stuff over a six month period. If it was all in one place, I would have learned it earlier.


many of the basic uses of the hr20 arent intuitive, forget the tips and tricks! i gave my mom and dad an hr10, and they were pretty much able to figure it out on their own without using the manual much.

i wouldnt even consider upgrading them to the hr20 now. in fact, because of it not being intuitive im currently in the process of switching them over to either the s3 or tivo hd unit (especially since theyve brough back lifetime!).

surprisingly, from what ive discovered thus far, when all said and done its not gonna cost much more for getting away from dtv and going back to cable and tivo.

after i get it hooked up and running, ill take a long look - figure out the prices (we have a lot of tvs) and consider doing this myself.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> Good way to put him in his place, Tony. Just because someone says something good about the HR10-250, but not so good about the HR20, you guys from the HR20 army come storming in to point out how misconceived they are - nice job as usual. We can always count on the HR20 army.


And we can always count on you.. Don't understand why you took it as an attack on the beloved hr10, way it seems was that the person was mentioning the fact that neither the HR10 nor the HR20/21 GUI is straight forward and user friendly, that there are gotcha's and hidden features in bot that have to be found out on the forums or somewhere else on both of the units, but then again, I have both and use both still.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I ONLY ask my HR20 questions here, there are enough people who know stuff here it's fine.


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

allenn said:


> I was wondering what will happen to this forum when there are no more D* TIVO boxes? I hope that D* will see the error in its ways and build a TIVO DVR. I have an HR21, and I think it sucks!:down: I don't like the remote or the OS.:down: The HR21 system is not intuitive. I'm only glad that some of the guru's created a Tips and Tricks manual for the HR2X series which I keep handy just to operate the thing (never needed a manual for my HR10). I paid $1000 for my HR10 and nothing for the HR21. I would be happy to pay for TIVO service on any box.


I guess my answer would be the same as it was when I found this forum -- if I want something that seems relevant to the title of the forum I will come here. If I want something else, I'll go find a forum that features that something. If your purpose was primarily to say what a piece of crap the HR21 is, then I will say that I own and use both an HR10-250 and an HR21-700. I like them both, and neither one is a piece of crap. Neither is either of them a religion to me.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

RS4 said:


> Good way to put him in his place, Tony. Just because someone says something good about the HR10-250, but not so good about the HR20, you guys from the HR20 army come storming in to point out how misconceived they are - nice job as usual. We can always count on the HR20 army.


You just like to waste your time. I just pointed out a fallacy about the HR10. It is not that intuitive. Or this forum would have been pretty damned quiet (and would remain so).

Odd, I have taught people how to use the HR20 in about 15 minutes and they have hardly had any questions yet I got lots of questions on the Tivo when they learned that.

I like the Tivo as well. I am going to replace my cable DVR with a Series 3 around the holidays. But, of course, being fair to both DVRs is not in your agenda, is it?

But why should I let a statement that was so far wrong stand? Tell me again how someone figures out the Tivo shortcuts without a manual? Tell me how you determine how to change the guide quickly (until they finally put a note on the guide itself). I had a friend going through the menu setup to change his favorites for a year until he mentioned it and I told him to just hit the info key. Yup, intutive. Or how about the dual tuners? The down arrow? Intuitive. Not. How about 30 second skip? Yup, intuitive.

I find the HR20 much more intuitive as it spells out 90% of what you can do quickly in context (and they add more notes and hints with every release). The Tivo was full of unpublished shortcuts and tricks. Nothing wrong with that. It is just the way it is.

I loved the Tivo interface but now I find it slow and a bit clunky. There are still things I like (keys for entering spaces and deletes in searches, DLB, skip to tick methodology) but there are a lot of things I find much quicker to do on the HR20 (the pop menu guide that you have never seen is very quick and intutive). Programming a series link is very fast. As is setting a single recording and managing the season lists.

But this will fall on your very deaf and stubborn ears.


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## allenn (Jan 24, 2003)

I prefer the HR10 which is in my bedroom to the HR21 which is in my great room. The remote control for the HR10 has the controlls that I use the most in the middle where it will balance in my hand unlike the HR21's remote with them on the top where it falls out of my hand. 

Anyway I'm happy that we can discuss the new crap here. Have a great day!


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

allenn said:


> I was wondering what will happen to this forum when there are no more D* TIVO boxes?


Not as much arguing? 

Seriously, though... I agree with Doug. It will be a long time before they go away and I'm sure that there will be a dedicated group of people who continue to use them as long as they are serviceable.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

allenn said:


> I don't like the remote or the OS.:down:


I certainly hope the HR20/21 remote is nothing like my sd H10 remote in the bedroom. 
I wouldn't wish that thing on anyone.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

The HR10 (tivo) is for everyone and the HR20 is for those who could figure out how to set the clock on their VCR. I am sure I am not the first one to say this.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

RS4 said:


> Good way to put him in his place, Tony. Just because someone says something good about the HR10-250, but not so good about the HR20, you guys from the HR20 army come storming in to point out how misconceived they are - nice job as usual. We can always count on the HR20 army.


We can always count on the Tivo Zealots/Nuts to chime in how perfect the HR10 is and how the HR20 is the Anti-Christ of DVRs!

Even TyroneShoes admitted now that his HR10 is not perfect! 

We can always count on a TROLL like you to stir things up.

ALL DVRs are NOT perfect!

IMO, looking back the Tivo GUI is so kiddie like. Maybe that's why you like it. 

If I could have a Tivo HD DVR with HR20/21 features, plus all the full Tivo features I would be very happy! But the fact is mt HR10 crapped out and is becoming obsolete for D* HD.

I for one and not locked into any GUI. Both work and both due there job. Right now the HR20/21 GUI is faster and better IMHO.
The HR10 GUI is now slow and old!


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

coachO said:


> The HR10 (tivo) is for everyone and the HR20 is for those who could figure out how to set the clock on their VCR. I am sure I am not the first one to say this.


LMAO!

Yes, the Tivo GUI is that easy! Not better, just more kiddie like.
BUT it helps soooo many people who are NOT electronic competent. That was/is and is a good thing. It changed TV for so many people.

My 3 yr old can use the Tivo and the HR20!


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

gio1269 said:


> My 3 yr old can use the Tivo and the HR20!


Hey, that's cool. Maybe you can get him a job at DirecTV. I understand they are looking for some more HR20 programmers.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

gio1269 said:


> And we can always count on the Tivo Zelots/Nuts to chime in how perfect there HR10 and the HR20 is the Anti-Christ to DVRs!


the "tivo zelots (sic) nuts?"

anybody here speak dolphin? bud..........sandy? flipper?


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

coachO said:


> The HR10 (tivo) is for everyone and the HR20 is for those who could figure out how to set the clock on their VCR. I am sure I am not the first one to say this.


there's a clock on a vcr?


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

You sly dog.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

RS4 said:


> Hey, that's cool. Maybe you can get him a job at DirecTV. I understand they are looking for some more HR20 programmers.


She. With the way Tivo GUI works/looks she could do better!

Again, you are a TROLL. Even your beloved HR10 is not perfect and a Tivo supporter to the death like Tyrone even said it.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

gio1269 said:


> She. With the way Tivo GUI works/looks she could do better!
> 
> Again, you are a TROLL. Even your beloved HR10 is not perfect and a Tivo supporter to the death like Tyrone even said it.


what you said, and _i heard:_ 

She. With the way Tivo GUI works/looks she could do better!
-_gee. fifth of may we go and eat fly parts: look a blue sweater!_

Again, you are a TROLL. 
-_i enjoy a buttered ROLL. _

Even your beloved HR10 is not perfect and a Tivo supporter to the death like Tyrone even said it.
-_steven flubbed called me sven and snot surfaced and we go to the border cuz my breath like a bone seems quite fetid._


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## allenn (Jan 24, 2003)

I don't think the HR10 was or is perfect. It did cost me a pretty pennie, $1000. I guess I cannot appreciate the HR21, because it cost me nothing. The HR10 went through many updates before it would operate correctly, and I find that the HR21-700 has many problems that will eventually be corrected. But when all is said and done, it still will never have the TIVO intuitive functionality. Too bad!


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

n. An individual who chronically trolls; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, &#8220;Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll.&#8221;


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I'll stand by my opinion. An experienced TIVO user thinks the HR20 UI is not intuitive, while a brand new user finds the HR20 as easy to learn as the HR10. We have a lot of habits to "unlearn" as TIVO users.

My neighbor returned a TIVO around 18 months ago cause they couldn't get to grips with it, but has no real problems with the HR20. It's just what you're used to.

Nice to see RS4 returned from his suspension  RS4, you used to make good arguments now you are doing your cause no good at all.


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> I'll stand by my opinion. An experienced TIVO user thinks the HR20 UI is not intuitive, while a brand new user finds the HR20 as easy to learn as the HR10. We have a lot of habits to "unlearn" as TIVO users.
> 
> My neighbor returned a TIVO around 18 months ago cause they couldn't get to grips with it, but has no real problems with the HR20. It's just what you're used to.
> 
> Nice to see RS4 returned from his suspension  RS4, you used to make good arguments now you are doing your cause no good at all.


Heck, I don't think any of them are "intuitive" if you've never used a pvr before, however I went from a 2nd generation ReplayTV to an HR10 as my first Tivo with no steep learning curve. More importantly so did my wife. When I got my HR21 two weeks ago, same story. Pretty much like the TiVo and not that much different than the replay -- there are only a few critical functions and it doesn't take long to figure out which button invokes them. OTOH I do think that the way Tivo does some things makes more sense than the way the HR21 does things -- and I even like the way the replay did somethings better than either of them, but none of that has anything to do with "intuitive".


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

dswallow said:


> Considering there's still Ultimate TV receivers in use, I doubt there's going to be a time in the foreseeable future when there are no DirecTV DVR w/TiVo receivers in use.


I have one in use!!!


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

the forum will be here as long as we are


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> I'll stand by my opinion. An experienced TIVO user thinks the HR20 UI is not intuitive, while a brand new user finds the HR20 as easy to learn as the HR10. We have a lot of habits to "unlearn" as TIVO users.
> 
> My neighbor returned a TIVO around 18 months ago cause they couldn't get to grips with it, but has no real problems with the HR20. It's just what you're used to.
> 
> Nice to see RS4 returned from his suspension  RS4, you used to make good arguments now you are doing your cause no good at all.


John, I offer as much as you and the rest of your HR20 army. My concern all along is that many Tivo users are unsuspectingly getting the HR20 without being aware that it is quite different in usability then the Tivo. Your army fails to point that out to them. Even in the flawed poll on this forum shows over 35% of the respondents thinking the HR20 is inferior. Add in those of us who have opted not to be coerced into signing up for a 2-year commitment without being able to even try the box, and I'm sure the number is somewhere between 40 and 50%.

Would you want to be made aware of a product that up to 50% think is inferior to the current product you're using, especially if you had to commit to that product for 2 years or pay up to $480 to return? Of course you would.

I think you'll find that many of my responses were deleted when I was suspended. Those responses had nothing to do with the suspension. Instead, they dealt with suggestions concerning additional sub forums that could be set up here. Clearly, some folks don't like certain questions to be asked - publicly or privately.

Of course the other thing that is funny is that I've been called all sorts of names by many in the HR20 army, however I never noticed any suspensions of any of them.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

See RS4, that was a solid post, as most of yours used to be. Recently you've started acting like a child and it's not helped your arguments.

As an owner of two HR20's and 6 DirecTivo's I'm not really sure I qualify for the HR20 army  (I applied but was rejected)

I do agree that the fact that there is ability to try a system is a flaw but it is one that applies to a lot of other products. I disagree that 50&#37; think it's inferior (that's just good pollster stats from a very small respondent pool) and even if it is inferior the real question is whether th advantages outweigh the disadvantages which I think they do for most. It's disingenuous to tell people that the system is so bad it should be avoided, more useful to point out the issues and differences.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

RS4 said:


> John, I offer as much as you and the rest of your HR20 army. My concern all along is that many Tivo users are unsuspectingly getting the HR20 without being aware that it is quite different in usability then the Tivo. Your army fails to point that out to them. Even in the flawed poll on this forum shows over 35% of the respondents thinking the HR20 is inferior. Add in those of us who have opted not to be coerced into signing up for a 2-year commitment without being able to even try the box, and I'm sure the number is somewhere between 40 and 50%.
> 
> Would you want to be made aware of a product that up to 50% think is inferior to the current product you're using, especially if you had to commit to that product for 2 years or pay up to $480 to return? Of course you would.
> 
> ...


I still don't get how you feel the "usability" is that much different than Tivo? Sure functions are different, but it's a PVR and most are very similar. It takes very, very short amount of time to figure it out. No longer than it took me to figure out Tivo.

Now features wise, yes some die hard Tivo fans will miss some things. But other features are also welcomed.

Most are getting the HR20 for under $100. Yes you must commit to 2 yrs and I am torn about that. They SHOULD give HR10 users some type of trial. Maybe 30 days.

If you have the protection plan, the whole upgrade is FREE with NO commitment.

I had no idea you were banned. They ban you for almost anything here. NEVER question their authority. It got me banned as well. 

The TRUE reality is neither the HR10 or HR20 are perfect. Some HR10 users will be disappointed and some happier. If you want to stay with D* and get all the channels you have no choice or move one. It's that simple.

The HR20 is not "TiVO" but it's a very good and capable DVR that gets better each day.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> See RS4, that was a solid post, as most of yours used to be. Recently you've started acting like a child and it's not helped your arguments.
> 
> As an owner of two HR20's and 6 DirecTivo's I'm not really sure I qualify for the HR20 army  (I applied but was rejected)
> 
> I do agree that the fact that there is ability to try a system is a flaw but it is one that applies to a lot of other products. I disagree that 50% think it's inferior (that's just good pollster stats from a very small respondent pool) and even if it is inferior the real question is whether th advantages outweigh the disadvantages which I think they do for most. It's disingenuous to tell people that the system is so bad it should be avoided, more useful to point out the issues and differences.


John, I'm sure glad you liked my post - I was really worried about what you'd think

You and the army can say what you want about the polls. The fact remains that the polls here, at dbstalk, and other places on the net show the HR20 a distant second. I'm certainly not telling people to avoid the HR20, but I am trying to make sure they are aware of what a huge number of Tivo users think, which is something your army forgets to tell them.

The fact is (which has been pointed out time and again) that if a DirecTV Tivo customer wants to get the new channels, they need to get a non-Tivo dvr. I'm just trying to help them make an informed decision - that's all. Then if they want to take a chance for the next two years, that's fine.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

allenn said:


> ...I'm only glad that some of the guru's created a Tips and Tricks manual for the HR2X series which I keep handy just to operate the thing (never needed a manual for my HR10)....


Thank you for the shout out! No guru, more of a compiler. The tricks come so fast, it is hard to keep up!

Here is the link:

144 Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks

I hope by the end of the weekend to have the additions for Remote Booking, VOD, Skip, etc.

They come so fast it is hard to keep up.

There are about 60 other links like this in the HD DVR FAQ.

- Craig


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## allenn (Jan 24, 2003)

milominderbinder said:


> Thank you for the shout out! No guru, more of a compiler. The tricks come so fast, it is hard to keep up!
> .........- Craig


Keep the Tricks & Tips coming. I appreciate the info. Thanks!


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## robnalex (Sep 8, 2002)

RS4 said:


> I'm just trying to help them make an informed decision


 My, Oh My! What would they ever do without you?!


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

BTW, the AVS Forum still has an Ultimate TV section.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/f41/


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