# Why is it that CBS skips a show because of an overrun?



## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Why is it that CBS sometimes skips a show when there is a lengthy sports overrun, like the Masters a few weeks ago?


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

One reason is that advertisers will sometimes want a commercial to be shown during a specific time period. If a program has to start way late, the network may be obligated to postpone the show in order to make sure the ad runs at the proper ime.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

JMikeD said:


> One reason is that advertisers will sometimes want a commercial to be shown during a specific time period. If a program has to start way late, the network may be obligated to postpone the show in order to make sure the ad runs at the proper ime.


If it wasn't for the DVR there would be less TV watching on my part due to reasons like this.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

By the same token CBS is not in the business of encouraging television watching. They're in the business of encouraging commercial watching.

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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

It's not just CBS. Fox has done this when its national Sunday football coverage ran to 8:30 Eastern. I'm pretty sure NBC and ABC have done this as well when necessary. In fact, NBC had three episodes of _Punky Brewster_ made as two 15-minute mini-episodes each so it could air one of them if its football coverage ran until 7:15 Eastern.

I _think_ the main reason is, the networks don't want to push the schedule so far that it would affect the local affiliates' local news programs that follow.

What the networks do in the Pacific time zone as a result is another story. In "ye olden days," when CBS would pull its 8:00 show on Sunday (pulling _60 Minutes_ was out of the question, although there was at least one time when it was joined in progress in the east, and the lead story aired on another episode a few weeks later), sometimes it would leave the 8:00 Pacific slot empty and have the affiliates show local programming, and other times it would air the 9:00 and 10:00 programs an hour early. Today, I think everybody just airs a repeat of the pre-empted programs; Fox definitely does. Note that this is different from when they air a live sporting event that they know will pre-empt shows in the east (for example, Fox's NASCAR coverage on Memorial Day weekend), in which case the western affiliates are told to fill the time themselves - presumably with the shows they would have aired three hours earlier had it not been for the sporting event.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

My understanding is that at least one factor is that ratings don't count if a show starts after 10:00 (11:00 Eastern), or something like that. So there's no upside to airing it, and the downside of having to refund ad money for airing out-of-prime plus costing the local stations money for their news ads.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

PP has the answer. Network won't start a prime time program after 11:00p (or is it after 10:59). Sports overun is an hour or more a show gets preempted.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

bicker said:


> By the same token CBS is not in the business of encouraging television watching. They're in the business of encouraging commercial watching.
> 
> This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.


Of course if they keep doing things that upset viewers such as that, they may not have any viewers for their shows OR their commercials.

It's interesting that the OP brings up CBS in relation to this scenario in that CBS regularly delays their Sunday slate without cancelling shows due to sporting events such as the NFL or Golf. Did CBS skip a show after the Masters?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Of course if they keep doing things that upset viewers such as that, they may not have any viewers for their shows OR their commercials.


Which of course just prompts them to offer cheaper and cheaper programming. In the end the public airwaves will always offer some level of value to ever is rented license to them. It's just a matter of determining how much investment in programming is justified by how much customers are willing to pay with their eyes. And if the answer is the best use of the public airwaves is occasional news reports interspersed between home shopping network broadcasts then that's what they're going to do. They can take the capital that they would have otherwise invested in drama and comedy productions and invest that in an online only service.

We just need to not lose sight of the fact that in the end we are doing this to ourselves. The networks are easy. They'll do whatever we want as long as it raises the most amount of money for them.

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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

bicker said:


> Which of course just prompts them to offer cheaper and cheaper programming. In the end the public airwaves will always offer some level of value to ever is rented license to them. It's just a matter of determining how much investment in programming is justified by how much customers are willing to pay with their eyes. And if the answer is the best use of the public airwaves is occasional news reports interspersed between home shopping network broadcasts then that's what they're going to do. They can take the capital that they would have otherwise invested in drama and comedy productions and invest that in an online only service.
> 
> We just need to not lose sight of the fact that in the end we are doing this to ourselves. The networks are easy. They'll do whatever we want as long as it raises the most amount of money for them.
> 
> This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.


No doubt, it's all about the money. The problem today is there are SO many other alternatives to OTA programming that the viewing public is not going to stand for poor scheduling and poor programming in general. So the networks also have to find a balance if they want to continue to make money. Sure they can offer the cheapest junk and just show that, but how profitable will that end up being in the long run? What advertiser is going to pay for stuff that nobody is watching?


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> It's not just CBS. Fox has done this when its national Sunday football coverage ran to 8:30 Eastern. I'm pretty sure NBC and ABC have done this as well when necessary. In fact, NBC had three episodes of _Punky Brewster_ made as two 15-minute mini-episodes each so it could air one of them if its football coverage ran until 7:15 Eastern.
> 
> I _think_ the main reason is, the networks don't want to push the schedule so far that it would affect the local affiliates' local news programs that follow.
> 
> What the networks do in the Pacific time zone as a result is another story. In "ye olden days," when CBS would pull its 8:00 show on Sunday (pulling _60 Minutes_ was out of the question, although there was at least one time when it was joined in progress in the east, and the lead story aired on another episode a few weeks later), sometimes it would leave the 8:00 Pacific slot empty and have the affiliates show local programming, and other times it would air the 9:00 and 10:00 programs an hour early. Today, I think everybody just airs a repeat of the pre-empted programs; Fox definitely does. Note that this is different from when they air a live sporting event that they know will pre-empt shows in the east (for example, Fox's NASCAR coverage on Memorial Day weekend), in which case the western affiliates are told to fill the time themselves - presumably with the shows they would have aired three hours earlier had it not been for the sporting event.


I remember NBC switching to another game once the "main" game was over, and then airing _Punky Brewster _when the other game was over, at 7:30. FOX does the same thing these days; that way _The Simpsons_ starts at 8:00


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> No doubt, it's all about the money. The problem today is there are SO many other alternatives to OTA programming that the viewing public is not going to stand for poor scheduling and poor programming in general. So the networks also have to find a balance if they want to continue to make money. Sure they can offer the cheapest junk and just show that, but how profitable will that end up being in the long run? What advertiser is going to pay for stuff that nobody is watching?


 Home shopping pays for itself.

What you are outlining is the decimation of a market rendering it incapable of providing sufficient profitability to attract capital investment. Remember that every dollar invested competes with every other way that dollar can be invested. If broadcast television ever becomes sufficiently less profitable, then the correct answer to that will be to invest less and less money in it and instead direct capital to investments that offer a higher rate of return.

What's important to keep in mind though is that we're nowhere near that. As much as you beat the drum predicting Doom and Gloom regarding how do you think the viewing public is going to punish broadcasters for what they're doing, it's simply not true. You say that networks need to find a balance but all indications are that they have found a balance - it's just a balance that you don't like. You ask how profitable will the cheapest junk be but ask it in a manner insinuating that it won't be that profitable with no evidence whatsoever. The reality is that home shopping networks make money and if they can make money running commercials 24/7 then surely broadcast networks can make money broadcasting increasingly crappier programming with increasingly more commercial content because many people still consider that better than watching home shopping ... which, again, are profitable.

There's another aspect of this that we probably don't want to get into too deeply, but keep in mind that we're talking about superior options available via pay services. And make no mistake obtaining television programming through magical means still is utilizing a pay service. A certain percentage of the population is increasingly unable to afford such services. To a great extent the rules that applied to broadcast television have always been affected by realizations that it is the means by which such services reach those less fortunate in our society... "free television". A cynical observer could make rather prejudicial judgments about how the trend towards monetization is adversely affecting those most vulnerable in society. However putting aside that political concern, it is important to recognize that those eyes are still going to be affected by commercial programming because even those less fortunate still make purchasing decisions. And as the choices offered get crappier and crappier by your estimation they remain the only options for some and therefore remain of value to some extent to some advertisers.

So no matter how you slice it what you're expressing is either wishful thinking or a cynical prediction of exploitation. It doesn't lead to the conclusion that you wanted to lead to.

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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I remember NBC switching to another game once the "main" game was over, and then airing _Punky Brewster _when the other game was over, at 7:30. FOX does the same thing these days; that way _The Simpsons_ starts at 8:00


There's a "history" about this...ever since the "Heidi Bowl" way back in 1968 (NBC cut away from its broadcast of a Raiders-Jets game with about 2 minutes left to air the movie _Heidi_, only for the Raiders to score two touchdowns and win), networks have made it a point not to interrupt football for anything except when they had to; the last time I remember any network doing this was something like 30 years ago, when NBC had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game. (When CBS interrupted a golf tournament in a playoff to air _60 Minutes_ on time, so many people (as well as Sports Illustrated) complained that CBS quickly announced that its "no interruption" policy would apply to golf as well.)

Because NFL games get much better ratings than anything the networks normally show on Sundays, the coverage leaks past 7:00 Eastern so the overrun counts toward that night's ratings. Because of this, when a game ends, the network will switch to another game still in progress, and keep doing this until all of its games have ended. In 2000 or so, Fox and CBS asked the NFL to change the start times of the second games of doubleheaders from 4:05 to 4:15 (because too many 1:00 games were running past 4:05), thus pretty much making sure TV coverage would run until at least 7:30. When too many games were running well past 7:30 (ever hear the story about the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year?), Fox stopped trying to program the time slot and added its current postgame show, _The OT_, to pad the time until 8:00.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Another question is why CBS continues to have a schedule that claims 60 minutes will start at 7pm on the east coast when it has probably been 20 or 30 years since the late football games actually finished by 7 .


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

tomhorsley said:


> Another question is why CBS continues to have a schedule that claims 60 minutes will start at 7pm on the east coast when it has probably been 20 or 30 years since the late football games actually finished by 7 .


Because on Fox's NFL doubleheader days, _60 Minutes_ starts at 7 Eastern.

This year's Fox doubleheader days are 9/10, 9/17 (although CBS is airing the Emmys that night), 10/8, 10/29, 11/12, 12/3, 12/10, 12/24, and 12/31 (although the last one is a CBS doubleheader day as well, so 60 Minutes starts late).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

bicker said:


> Home shopping pays for itself.
> 
> What you are outlining is the decimation of a market rendering it incapable of providing sufficient profitability to attract capital investment. Remember that every dollar invested competes with every other way that dollar can be invested. If broadcast television ever becomes sufficiently less profitable, then the correct answer to that will be to invest less and less money in it and instead direct capital to investments that offer a higher rate of return.
> 
> ...


I honestly couldn't care less and I'm predicting anything. I'm just making a point that if nobody is watching, advertisers aren't going pay and as you said, if there's no advertising there's no mainstream programing. At that point, we'll all be streaming everything anyway. I'm not one of those who's really annoyed by the delays on Sunday nights when there's NFL or other programming that delays. I know full well this is going to happen and plan for it in advance (either watch live or pad my recordings. Usually I've found that those who complain most about it are generally not sports fans. In fact, if you check the ratings, those weekends where there is NFL overrun, CBS has higher ratings for their slate of shows. Why would they change ANYTHING?

Edit to add: You mention that Home Shopping pays for itself, but, does it pay anywhere NEAR what an average 30 second spot might?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

tomhorsley said:


> Another question is why CBS continues to have a schedule that claims 60 minutes will start at 7pm on the east coast when it has probably been 20 or 30 years since the late football games actually finished by 7 .


There have been a couple of times where it actually did start on time on CBS, but it's rare. What I've always wondered is why CBS during NFL season continues to have 4 hours or programming on Sundays, but I guess it's because usually it only affects about half the country. But if it wasn't for DVRs (and I guess VCRs before them), half the country would never watch the last show in the slate.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Yesterday, 60 Minutes was on time, but it looked boring, so I watched some of my backlog. Usually, I check at 6 (central time), and if I see sports I watch my backlog, Netflix stuff, or just futz around on the internet. The overruns used to bother me. Now I don't give a damn.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I honestly couldn't care less and I'm predicting anything. I'm just making a point that if nobody is watching, advertisers aren't going pay and as you said


Wait. Stop. "If nobody is watching." There is no validity to anything you've written after that phrase until you justify that phrase. The point of much of my earlier message was to outline why that phrase has no merit. Until you get past that again nothing else you write has any validity in this regard. It's like saying "If radio frequencies suddenly stop broadcasting RF signals..." It's quick and easy to predict something like that but everything that follows from that phrase is meaningless.



Steveknj said:


> At that point, we'll all be streaming everything anyway.


 Except as I specified in my reply. I recognize that those details undercut the argument you're trying to make but ignoring them doesn't rationalize the argument that you're trying to make.



Steveknj said:


> Edit to add: You mention that Home Shopping pays for itself, but, does it pay anywhere NEAR what an average 30 second spot might?


 First you need to start measuring things in terms of return on investment. The television business will never make sense until that is the foundation of your understanding and projections. Therefore what happens in 30 seconds doesn't matter. What matters is what happens over the course of 24 hours. And home shopping pays over and over and over again every 30 seconds for the entire 24 hours.

Moreover and perhaps even more importantly there are no licensing fees to pay for acquired broadcast content. So practically the entire top line goes directly to the bottom line. It is an extremely efficient business model as compared to more traditional broadcast television stations.

You can actually check to see the profitability of the different corporations involved. HSN's ROE is greater than Comcast's.

What's interesting is that a great deal of the profitability of home shopping comes not from the eyes that are watching it over broadcast but rather because it gives the broadcast channel a foothold in cable systems all across its broadcast area. The broadcast channel does not even need to be practicably receivable by more than a handful of communities and yet it is required to be carried throughout a much broader area. So for an incredibly low cost great profits are earned.

However you've missed the core point. The television channels that we're talking about don't necessarily need to go that far. Again, the Doom and Gloom that you were predicting is simply not coming to pass. As I said before we're nowhere near that. All indications are that broadcasters have found a balance - it's just a balance that you don't like.

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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tomhorsley said:


> Another question is why CBS continues to have a schedule that claims 60 minutes will start at 7pm on the east coast when it has probably been 20 or 30 years since the late football games actually finished by 7 .





Steveknj said:


> There have been a couple of times where it actually did start on time on CBS, but it's rare. What I've always wondered is why CBS during NFL season continues to have 4 hours or programming on Sundays, but I guess it's because usually it only affects about half the country. But if it wasn't for DVRs (and I guess VCRs before them), half the country would never watch the last show in the slate.


I read something recently (I'll see if I can find it) where one of the scheduling execs for one of the networks talked about how they used to pray for NFL overruns because it would boost the ratings on the rest of their shows for the entire night. So it's no surprise that CBS continues to schedule their full block, because when it starts 20-30 minutes late, it's actually a major bonus for them.

Edit: Here's the link to what I read, and here's the relevant portion:


Masked Scheduler said:


> ABC always starts out with a disadvantage. They are the only network not to have the benefit of major sports ratings factored into their season-to-date averages. They don't have the primetime football numbers that benefit NBC and CBS, and they don't get the Sunday afternoon overruns that boost CBS and FOX.
> 
> No postseason NFL. No World Series. No NCAA Tournament. The irony of course is that their sibling is ESPN.
> 
> So ABC has to do it on their own. *Trust me, as a scheduler, rooting for those long Sunday afternoon overruns was a big part of looking good at the job.*


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Steveknj said:


> ... if nobody is watching, advertisers aren't going pay ...


Never underestimate the stupidity of advertisers. Not too many years ago (and maybe even now, but I don't notice it any longer) TV networks used to have "sweeps" weeks where they would put on nothing but specials which were in no way related to their normal programming, then Neilsen would calculate the ratings and advertisers would pay for ads based on those ratings. For some reason (possibly related to total stupidity) advertisers put up with that system, even though the prices they paid for ads had no relationship to the ratings of the programming they advertised on.

Personally, I'd like to see my solution (which will never happen): Advertisers pay me (probably in some sort of virtual credit not redeemable for cash) for watching their ads. They probably make them interactive to prove there is really someone watching. They might even make them more entertaining than an average reality TV show.

Then I watch all the shows that interest me on demand, paying for them with virtual credits (which the production companies can convert to cash). The networks completely disappear and no longer interfere with the story tellers.

I can also buy virtual credits with actual cash in case I'd rather do that than watch commercials to build up my account.

No networks, no channels, just story tellers telling stories to anyone who likes their stories. No advertisers being offended by a story because they don't even know what stories they are paying for. Better even than a-la-carte. The ultimate pay only for what you watch. Basically, this turns TV into books .


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> There's a "history" about this...ever since the "Heidi Bowl" way back in 1968 (NBC cut away from its broadcast of a Raiders-Jets game with about 2 minutes left to air the movie _Heidi_, only for the Raiders to score two touchdowns and win), networks have made it a point not to interrupt football for anything except when they had to; the last time I remember any network doing this was something like 30 years ago, when NBC had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game. (When CBS interrupted a golf tournament in a playoff to air _60 Minutes_ on time, so many people (as well as Sports Illustrated) complained that CBS quickly announced that its "no interruption" policy would apply to golf as well.)
> 
> Because NFL games get much better ratings than anything the networks normally show on Sundays, the coverage leaks past 7:00 Eastern so the overrun counts toward that night's ratings. Because of this, when a game ends, the network will switch to another game still in progress, and keep doing this until all of its games have ended. In 2000 or so, Fox and CBS asked the NFL to change the start times of the second games of doubleheaders from 4:05 to 4:15 (because too many 1:00 games were running past 4:05), thus pretty much making sure TV coverage would run until at least 7:30. When too many games were running well past 7:30 (ever hear the story about the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year?), Fox stopped trying to program the time slot and added its current postgame show, _The OT_, to pad the time until 8:00.


I don't remember NBC ever cutting away from a NFL game; if you say they did one time because it had to show its national news before a World Series game, i don't remember it; if NBC had a doubleheader, then they wouldn't need to do that. Maybe the World Series was pushed back for the game.

As far has the the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year, that was because FOX switched to the Cardinals-Raiders game after the Cowboys-Redskins game, and the Cardinals-Raiders game went into overtime.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

What i do remember, at least in 1995, was that if NBC switched to another game, they'd have the 7pm show eat the "bonus" game's overrun. _Mad About You_ seemed to start at 8pm every time i checked, such as after the Jacksonville-Houston, Seattle-Denver, Pittsburgh-Chicago and Indianapolis-Miami games.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Sweeps

The "Heidi" Incident

You should know about these things to intelligently discuss the subject of this thread.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

One of the trials of becoming old is remembering such things and younger folks disbelieving they ever happened.

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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bicker said:


> One of the trials of becoming old is remembering such things and younger folks disbelieving they ever happened.


Another is remembering things that never happened.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I read something recently (I'll see if I can find it) where one of the scheduling execs for one of the networks talked about how they used to pray for NFL overruns because it would boost the ratings on the rest of their shows for the entire night. So it's no surprise that CBS continues to schedule their full block, because when it starts 20-30 minutes late, it's actually a major bonus for them.
> 
> Edit: Here's the link to what I read, and here's the relevant portion:


Yes, this is exactly my point, CBS especially with it's established lineup will never NOT run their full schedule as ratings are always higher on the nights where the NFL runs over.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

bicker said:


> Wait. Stop. "If nobody is watching." There is no validity to anything you've written after that phrase until you justify that phrase. The point of much of my earlier message was to outline why that phrase has no merit. Until you get past that again nothing else you write has any validity in this regard. It's like saying "If radio frequencies suddenly stop broadcasting RF signals..." It's quick and easy to predict something like that but everything that follows from that phrase is meaningless.
> 
> Except as I specified in my reply. I recognize that those details undercut the argument you're trying to make but ignoring them doesn't rationalize the argument that you're trying to make.
> 
> ...


Wait, what are you talking about? Do work in the industry? You are reading WAY to much into what I'm saying. But since you are the "expert" (in your mind), I'll defer to you.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I don't remember NBC ever cutting away from a NFL game; if you say they did one time because it had to show its national news before a World Series game, i don't remember it; if NBC had a doubleheader, then they wouldn't need to do that. Maybe the World Series was pushed back for the game.
> 
> As far has the the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year, that was because FOX switched to the Cardinals-Raiders game after the Cowboys-Redskins game, and the Cardinals-Raiders game went into overtime.


As That Don Guy said, it happened once in the 1960s where NBC cut away from a Jets-Raiders game to show Heidi. Oakland scores two late TDs and wins the game after NBC cut away. The switchboard at NBC lit up with irate fans. After that, the networks stopped cutting away until the games were over. Check YouTube or one of the pay subscription services and look up "Heidi Bowl" . There was a great special a few years ago about it.

Now I DO remember NBC cutting away from an OT hockey game to show their coverage of one of the Triple Crown Horse Races a few years ago. But the situation is a bit different. This is cutting from one sporting event to another and, unlike 1968, NBC has a Sports Network where they can show the remainder of a game, so viewers who were still interested could still watch.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Another is remembering things that never happened.


That's what wikipedia is for:


ej42137 said:


> The "Heidi" Incident
> You should know about these things to intelligently discuss the subject of this thread.


Trust, but verify.



Steveknj said:


> Wait, what are you talking about? Do work in the industry? You are reading WAY to much into what I'm saying. But since you are the "expert" (in your mind), I'll defer to you.


Seems like a passive-aggressive way of bowing out of the discussion but I'll respect your wishes.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> It's not just CBS. Fox has done this when its national Sunday football coverage ran to 8:30 Eastern. I'm pretty sure NBC and ABC have done this as well when necessary. In fact, NBC had three episodes of _Punky Brewster_ made as two 15-minute mini-episodes each so it could air one of them if its football coverage ran until 7:15 Eastern.
> 
> I _think_ the main reason is, the networks don't want to push the schedule so far that it would affect the local affiliates' local news programs that follow.
> 
> What the networks do in the Pacific time zone as a result is another story. In "ye olden days," when CBS would pull its 8:00 show on Sunday (pulling _60 Minutes_ was out of the question, although there was at least one time when it was joined in progress in the east, and the lead story aired on another episode a few weeks later), sometimes it would leave the 8:00 Pacific slot empty and have the affiliates show local programming, and other times it would air the 9:00 and 10:00 programs an hour early. Today, I think everybody just airs a repeat of the pre-empted programs; Fox definitely does. Note that this is different from when they air a live sporting event that they know will pre-empt shows in the east (for example, Fox's NASCAR coverage on Memorial Day weekend), in which case the western affiliates are told to fill the time themselves - presumably with the shows they would have aired three hours earlier had it not been for the sporting event.


I do remember a few years ago, when a Bills-Jets game almost delayed the Emmys.

Did ABC have a NASCAR race one year that ran so long, that it got moved to ESPN for the American Music Awards?(expect out west, where the race was simulcast on both networks.) In that case it was because of a rain delay, and the points title was coming down to the final race.

As far as CBS pulling it 8:00 show on Sunday, it's happened before, like when the Eagles-Raiders game ran all the way to 8; the same thing happened with an Raiders-49ers game in 2000; I do remember one year when FOX dumped _Married With Children _to show "bonus coverage" of the Eagles-Cardinals game, and even though the game ended before 8, they did a postgame so that _The Simpsons _would start at 8.


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## sean67854 (Jul 11, 2001)

danderson400 said:


> Why is it that CBS sometimes skips a show when there is a lengthy sports overrun, like the Masters a few weeks ago?


It must be a timezone thing because I don't remember any national network completely skipping airing a program due to sports overrun on Sundays.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

sean67854 said:


> It must be a timezone thing because I don't remember any national network completely skipping airing a program due to sports overrun on Sundays.


At least once maybe twice in this past season alone, CBS has not aired Elementary due to an hour overrun on the evening. Elementary is the last show of the night, and they won't start it if it's delayed more than an hour. Madam Secretary takes the last slot, and then the news starts on time.

I'm pretty sure they also canceled it for the West Coast too, even though they didn't need too. But it kept everything consistent, and they showed that episode the next week.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Here are the posts when that happened...

Elementary 04/09/2017

Urgent Pad Recording Alerts (EAST)


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

And in a way that was doing them a favor, giving the show a chance to save itself by holding back new episodes until they could broadcast them at a predictable time. It wasn't enough.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

bicker said:


> And in a way that was doing them a favor, giving the show a chance to save itself by holding back new episodes until they could broadcast them at a predictable time. It wasn't enough.


If you're referring to my post about Elementary, it was renewed. :confounded:


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Shows you how good my memory is on a Saturday morning.

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

tomhorsley said:


> Not too many years ago (and maybe even now, but I don't notice it any longer) TV networks used to have "sweeps" weeks where they would put on nothing but specials which were in no way related to their normal programming,


Yes, they definitely have sweeps weeks, and the networks still sometimes air specials/special movies/etc., in those weeks to get ratings..

Though even with their "regular" programming, with the great reduction in new episodes/year for most shows (22 is about the high end), a TON of those are saved for the sweeps weeks, which is why there seem to be more batches of new episodes then batches of reruns, instead of sprinkling them together..

(BTW, PBS does largely the same thing, during pledge break season.. airing many specials that don't air the rest of the year AND even their regular programming often has pledge breaks which are WORSE than ads since they're much longer/more of a pain to skip... and break up the show you want to watch in unexpected ways -- i.e. sometimes there are abrupt cuts to the pledge break.)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BTW, on the west coast, we get far less show delaying/preemption (though a bunch of Jeopardy episodes were moved to middle of the night), but I'd rather have the show SKIPPED than air in the wrong time slot, since then the guide data can be updated to the new air date, and the tivo will 'just work', where it wouldn't (without manual padding) in the delayed case.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

mattack said:


> BTW, on the west coast, we get far less show delaying/preemption (though a bunch of Jeopardy episodes were moved to middle of the night), but I'd rather have the show SKIPPED than air in the wrong time slot, since then the guide data can be updated to the new air date, and the tivo will 'just work', where it wouldn't (without manual padding) in the delayed case.


Not necessarily. I believe there's a 28 day rule, so if the skipped show is aired less than 28 days from it's original air date it's not going to be recorded if you have record new shows only.


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## sean67854 (Jul 11, 2001)

astrohip said:


> At least once maybe twice in this past season alone, CBS has not aired Elementary due to an hour overrun on the evening. Elementary is the last show of the night, and they won't start it if it's delayed more than an hour. Madam Secretary takes the last slot, and then the news starts on time.
> 
> I'm pretty sure they also canceled it for the West Coast too, even though they didn't need too. But it kept everything consistent, and they showed that episode the next week.


Looking at my recordings, I do see 2 of the same titled eps of Elementary in back to back weeks. We are 9 episodes from the end of the season, so i didn't notice.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Did ABC have a NASCAR race one year that ran so long, that it got moved to ESPN for the American Music Awards?(expect out west, where the race was simulcast on both networks.) In that case it was because of a rain delay, and the points title was coming down to the final race.


Yes, ABC did. I think the "unwritten rule" in this case is, if the event will last for at least 30 minutes more, and it isn't a "big ratings" event (e.g. pretty much any NFL game), then it will be moved.



sean67854 said:


> It must be a timezone thing because I don't remember any national network completely skipping airing a program due to sports overrun on Sundays.


I assume you live out west, like I do? "Back in the day," when a show was pre-empted in the east because of a long-running sporting event, the network would either skip it (and have the local stations fill the slot) or move the rest of that night's shows back in the west. Today, the standard policy seems to be to air a repeat of the pre-empted show in its normal time slot. In fact, CBS did this with an episode of _The Price is Right_ last week when its coverage of a Senate hearing pre-empted it in the east but ended just before its Pacific start time.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Sports always seem to take precedence over syndicated shows. College football is an example.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

brianric said:


> Not necessarily. I believe there's a 28 day rule, so if the skipped show is aired less than 28 days from it's original air date it's not going to be recorded if you have record new shows only.


Not _IF THEY UPDATE THE ORIGINAL AIR DATE_, like I said, which has been done in the past...


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

mattack said:


> Not _IF THEY UPDATE THE ORIGINAL AIR DATE_, like I said, which has been done in the past...


That hasn't been my experience.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I didn't say they do that every time, but they have done it once in a while.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Personally, i wish the NFL would change it's TV policy; that way FOX and CBS would only need two feeds for prime time shows on Sundays. If FOX or CBS could switch to the end of a 4:05 game still in progress, it would make things easier for the networks.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Personally, i wish the NFL would change it's TV policy; that way FOX and CBS would only need two feeds for prime time shows on Sundays. If FOX or CBS could switch to the end of a 4:05 game still in progress, it would make things easier for the networks.


I assume you mean three feeds - Eastern/Central, Mountain (1 hour behind Eastern/Central), and Pacific.

Three questions.

First, change the policy to what, and, for that matter, _from_ what?

Second, since when can't Fox or CBS switch to the end of a 4:05 game still in progress? It happens all the time where I live, and this was even when the game in progress was a Raiders game that had been blacked out.

Third, do you mean "4:05," or "4:25"? A "4:05" game is one where that network does not have a doubleheader. I am not aware of either CBS or Fox having multiple east coast feeds when it does not have a doubleheader that week. It is possible that a local station that has a 4:05 game will "time shift" the primetime lineup by a few minutes so it does not have to air anything in progress, although I would not be surprised if one of the reasons Fox does not air a new episode of a show at 7 Eastern on Sundays is, stations can join it in progress without too much of a problem.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Personally, i wish the NFL would change it's TV policy; that way FOX and CBS would only need two feeds for prime time shows on Sundays. If FOX or CBS could switch to the end of a 4:05 game still in progress, it would make things easier for the networks.


It's not the NFL's TV policy but the networks. They often do switch to other NFL games after their main one is over. I especially know this because CBS does it quite a bit an it delays the start of their slate of shows at 7PM (eastern) and it bugs me.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Fox handles this fine with their buffer "OT" program. CBS clearly does not care, as it must be working for them.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Frylock said:


> Fox handles this fine with their buffer "OT" program. CBS clearly does not care, as it must be working for them.


The "OT" usually works out OK. Unless there is some unusually long game. That happened he other week when the Dallas/Denver game had a lengthy delay due to weather in Denver.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Frylock said:


> Fox handles this fine with their buffer "OT" program. *CBS clearly does not care, as it must be working for them.*


Ratings for the CBS slate of shows goes up when they have a football lead in, even if it overruns. So, not only do they care, but it works for them to leave it as is.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Well, to be fair, they don't care about DVR users getting "screwed"


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

CBS did make a slight change a few years ago. On days when they have a late game, they delay the start of the prime time schedule 30 minuets. Unfortunately, this is rarely enough.

No idea what "policy" you are talking about. The games start when they start. What you want is for the NFL to schedule all late games for a 4:05 eastern time start. Not gonna happen.

Fox has an advantage over CBS as they only have 3 hours of prime time programing on Sunday rather than 4.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> CBS did make a slight change a few years ago. On days when they have a late game, they delay the start of the prime time schedule 30 minuets. Unfortunately, this is rarely enough.
> 
> No idea what "policy" you are talking about. The games start when they start. What you want is for the NFL to schedule all late games for a 4:05 eastern time start. Not gonna happen.
> 
> Fox has an advantage over CBS as they only have 3 hours of prime time programing on Sunday rather than 4.


Actually Fox I think has 2 (and 3 during non football season). They do sometimes throw in a rerun of one of their shows if the game runs shorter. Do actually schedule something for the 7-8 timeslot besides the OT? But FOX also doesn't have a traditional Sunday at 7PM show that people would be mad if they moved (60 Minutes) which must make CBS a lot of money. Otherwise, they could have it premiere after football season. But as mentioned, CBS slate of shows rate higher with the NFL lead in. Fox would do the same if they had a strong 7 - 7:30 show.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I started to write 2 then I checked last Sunday. FOX had a 4PM game and had a Simpsons rerun at 7PM followed by 2.5 hours of new prime time programming. No "OT", so I suppose this was an anomaly.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> I started to write 2 then I checked last Sunday. FOX had a 4PM game and had a Simpsons rerun at 7PM followed by 2.5 hours of new prime time programming. No "OT", so I suppose this was an anomaly.


Your local station got a 4 PM game. You may have noticed that it did not also have a 1 PM game. Except for the final week of the regular season, only one of the two networks has a national doubleheader on any particular Sunday. "The OT" is on only when Fox airs a doubleheader.

When it is not a Fox doubleheader, like it was not on 10/1 (and will not be on 10/15 and 10/22), Fox schedules three hours of programming on Sundays - a repeat at 7 Eastern, followed by 2 1/2 hours of new shows (Bob's Burgers, The Simpsons, Ghosted, Family Guy, and The Last Man on Earth). In those few cities in the Eastern and Central time zones that got the Eagles-Chargers game at 4 PM (and then would have gone to the end of the 49ers-Cardinals game if the Eagles game ended first), the Fox programming would have been joined in progress. If the game runs so long that an entire show is pre-empted, I think the station is expected to air it at some point (for example, at midnight).


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

We got neither game. We got [email protected] I've never seen FOX programming "joined in progress". Why do you presume to know what happens on the east coast?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> We got neither game. We got [email protected] I've never seen FOX programming "joined in progress". Why do you presume to know what happens on the east coast?


You got me on that first one - I didn't notice that Fox had a third 4:00 game on the broadcast map (scroll down to the "Fox Single" map).

I "presume to know what happens on the east coast" because I have asked people on the east coast, and that is what they said happened.

Tell me, what does happen when Fox coverage ends at, say, 7:15 Eastern and there's no "The OT" running until 8:00? Does the entire lineup get delayed by 15 minutes?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> Tell me, what does happen when Fox coverage ends at, say, 7:15 Eastern and there's no "The OT" running until 8:00? Does the entire lineup get delayed by 15 minutes?


To tell you the truth, since they don't schedule anything new at 7, I don't really know. I have seen them delay the schedule if coverage runs past the scheduled start time of a new episode.

It would be silly for a local station to show something originally scheduled for 7:30 or 8:00 at midnight. Who the heck is going to stay up just for that even if they know about it? And why would the local station further screw up their schedule?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> It would be silly for a local station to show something originally scheduled for 7:30 or 8:00 at midnight. Who the heck is going to stay up just for that even if they know about it? And why would the local station further screw up their schedule?


That's very standard when a local affiliate airs something that preempts something broadcast on the national feed. Often it's aired around 2 am when the affiliate would otherwise be running nothing but infomercials.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's very standard when a local affiliate airs something that preempts something broadcast on the national feed. Often it's aired around 2 am when the affiliate would otherwise be running nothing but infomercials.


These days they often move the show to an SD sub channel or move it late and put it on a sub channel. I'm seeing less of the 2:37 am (yes, it would be times like that) showings.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's very standard when a local affiliate airs something that preempts something broadcast on the national feed. Often it's aired around 2 am when the affiliate would otherwise be running nothing but infomercials.


That's if the local station preempts it. *not *if the network delays it due to an overrun. And it is almost always in the schedule, which would be impossible in the situation under discussion.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> That's if the local station preempts it. *not *if the network delays it due to an overrun. And it is almost always in the schedule, which would be impossible in the situation under discussion.


But if the network aired something that caused the scheduled program not to be aired on the East Coast, but it still airs on the West Coast, then the local stations will have to find a way to fit it in their schedule, which is usually at 2:37 am after the network late-night shows have ended.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> But if the network aired something that caused the scheduled program not to be aired on the East Coast, but it still airs on the West Coast, then the local stations will have to find a way to fit it in their schedule, which is usually at 2:37 am after the network late-night shows have ended.


Specifically talking about the matter at hand, which is Sunday football overruns, I have *never *had either the local FOX or CBS affiliate do that. If it runs late enough so that something is completely canceled, it *isn't *shown on the west coast either. The network's advertisers would be very unhappy if it was moved to 2:37AM at the last minute.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Your local station got a 4 PM game. You may have noticed that it did not also have a 1 PM game. Except for the final week of the regular season, only one of the two networks has a national doubleheader on any particular Sunday. "The OT" is on only when Fox airs a doubleheader.
> 
> When it is not a Fox doubleheader, like it was not on 10/1 (and will not be on 10/15 and 10/22), Fox schedules three hours of programming on Sundays - a repeat at 7 Eastern, followed by 2 1/2 hours of new shows (Bob's Burgers, The Simpsons, Ghosted, Family Guy, and The Last Man on Earth). In those few cities in the Eastern and Central time zones that got the Eagles-Chargers game at 4 PM (and then would have gone to the end of the 49ers-Cardinals game if the Eagles game ended first), the Fox programming would have been joined in progress. If the game runs so long that an entire show is pre-empted, I think the station is expected to air it at some point (for example, at midnight).


When NBC had the AFC package, they made it work; Dateline aired at 7, and if it was a doubleheader, NBC would switch to another game and whatever time was left afterwards was either a postgame show, or a shortened Dateline. I remember one case in 1996 when the Chiefs-Chargers game ran so late, that they only had time for the postgame. If my memory is right, the game ended with a blocked field goal attempt; had the kick been good, it would have sent the game into overtime, and would have likely delayed ''Third Rock from the Sun,'' which NBC moved to Sunday nights that season. That was the closest i can remember a game running to 8:00. but the Colts-Bills game later that year did delay "Third Rock".


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I remember the ABC affiliate bumping a program from prime time to the middle of the night very often, though typically it was due to the affiliate broadcasting something during Primetime that was local. The advertisers don't have much say about it. Their arrangement is with the network to include the advertisement in the network broadcast. What local affiliates do with their Network feed generally doesn't come into it. And keep in mind that this greatly affects audience numbers so it does get eventually factored into what advertisers pay.

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> But if the network aired something that caused the scheduled program not to be aired on the East Coast, but it still airs on the West Coast, then the local stations will have to find a way to fit it in their schedule, which is usually at 2:37 am after the network late-night shows have ended.


But if the network didn't air the show on the East Coast, the local station will not have it either. The usual way to delay a preempted program is to record the network feed for playback. There are exceptions where the network will set up an alternate feed , but I've never seen that with Fox Sunday programming. Most likely if it's preempted in the East, Fox will just air a repeat in the West.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

realityboy said:


> But if the network didn't air the show on the East Coast, the local station will not have it either. The usual way to delay a preempted program is to record the network feed for playback. There are exceptions where the network will set up an alternate feed , but I've never seen that with Fox Sunday programming. Most likely if it's preempted in the East, Fox will just air a repeat in the West.


Exactly. Somebody is confusing situations where pretty much every (in this case) Fox station in the eastern half of of the country has a 4:00 (well, 4:25) game with situations where only a small fraction does. It is possible that Fox has a "dedicated feed" with its Sunday lineup shifted for just these cities, but I have not heard any mention of this. It is also possible that one or more of the stations time shift the "normal" feed themselves.

(I say "pretty much every station" as the stations in cities with NFL teams playing a home game being broadcast on CBS at 4:00 that day would not get a 4:00 Fox game (exceptions: if both the Giants and Jets, or 49ers and Raiders, have 4:00 games). For example, last Sunday, while it was a "CBS doubleheader day," the CBS station in Tampa was not allowed to show a 4:00 game as the Buccaneers were playing a 4:00 home game on Fox.)

As for why Fox would want a show locally pre-empted to air, even if it is in the wee hours of the morning, I think it is because Fox is more interested in making sure the station airs the commercials that Fox sold time for.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> Exactly. Somebody is confusing situations where pretty much every (in this case) Fox station in the eastern half of of the country has a 4:00 (well, 4:25) game with situations where only a small fraction does. It is possible that Fox has a "dedicated feed" with its Sunday lineup shifted for just these cities, but I have not heard any mention of this. It is also possible that one or more of the stations time shift the "normal" feed themselves.
> 
> (I say "pretty much every station" as the stations in cities with NFL teams playing a home game being broadcast on CBS at 4:00 that day would not get a 4:00 Fox game (exceptions: if both the Giants and Jets, or 49ers and Raiders, have 4:00 games). For example, last Sunday, while it was a "CBS doubleheader day," the CBS station in Tampa was not allowed to show a 4:00 game as the Buccaneers were playing a 4:00 home game on Fox.)
> 
> As for why Fox would want a show locally pre-empted to air, even if it is in the wee hours of the morning, I think it is because Fox is more interested in making sure the station airs the commercials that Fox sold time for.


FOX would likely send a delayed feed for the stations that had a late game if the rest of the East coast aired it. There's just not any situation that I could foresee where Fox (or any network) would preempt a show and expect local stations to make it good. Stations only make good shows that they preempt themselves.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> As for why Fox would want a show locally pre-empted to air, even if it is in the wee hours of the morning, I think it is because Fox is more interested in making sure the station airs the commercials that Fox sold time for.


The advertisers who paid prime time rates are going to be very unhappy. As I said, I don't believe this happens. An affiliate will sometimes preempt a network show for local programming and *schedule* the network show for a wee hours showing. The networks do not.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> The advertisers who paid prime time rates are going to be very unhappy. As I said, I don't believe this happens. An affiliate will sometimes preempt a network show for local programming and *schedule* the network show for a wee hours showing. The networks do not.


The networks _can't_. They don't control the schedule outside Prime Time (except for the stations they own and operate). They can't say to a local "You will air this show at 2:37AM," or "You must air this show sometime after Prime Time."


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

We have this discussion it seems during every NFL season.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> The advertisers who paid prime time rates are going to be very unhappy. As I said, I don't believe this happens. An affiliate will sometimes preempt a network show for local programming and *schedule* the network show for a wee hours showing. The networks do not.


That's why I said, "_locally_ pre-empted." If a Fox show is nationally pre-empted, the usual procedure is, if it is a new episode, a repeat of the same series airs in the west, and if it is a repeat, the repeat airs as scheduled in the west. Nothing new about this; I remember a case (in 2002, I think) when Fox had scheduled a repeat of a two-part _King of the Hill_ episode for 7:30 and 8:30, with a _The Simpsons_ repeat at 8:00, but it was a Fox NFL doubleheader day (back when late games started at 4:15 and Fox assumed its coverage would usually be over by 7:30), and the football ran until 8:00, so in the east, Fox aired the Simpsons episode and the second part of the KOTH two-parter as planned.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> That's why I said, "_locally_ pre-empted."


I missed your reference to local preemption but that is because it isn't relevant to the matter at hand - Football overruns.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Now here's something I didn't know...last Sunday, the 49ers-Cardinals game on Fox ran until 7:45 Eastern. However, I cannot find any reports that any Fox station either (a) aired only the second half of the new _Bob's Burgers_ episode that started at 7:30, or (b) delayed the start of either that episode or the new _The Simpsons_ episode that started at 8:00 by 15 minutes. I can only assume that Fox decided either not to make the cities in the east that aired the Giants-Buccaneers (which ended around 7:15) or Eagles-Chargers games (which ended at around 6:50) air the end of the 49ers game as well, or to cut away from it at 7:30.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> That's why I said, "_locally_ pre-empted." If a Fox show is nationally pre-empted, the usual procedure is, if it is a new episode, a repeat of the same series airs in the west, and if it is a repeat, the repeat airs as scheduled in the west. Nothing new about this; I remember a case (in 2002, I think) when Fox had scheduled a repeat of a two-part _King of the Hill_ episode for 7:30 and 8:30, with a _The Simpsons_ repeat at 8:00, but it was a Fox NFL doubleheader day (back when late games started at 4:15 and Fox assumed its coverage would usually be over by 7:30), and the football ran until 8:00, so in the east, Fox aired the Simpsons episode and the second part of the KOTH two-parter as planned.


I do remember one case, and maybe your'e right, it was a Fox NFL doubleheader day, and Fox switched to the Arizona at Oakland game after the Dallas at Washington game. The Cardinals-Raiders game went to overtime, and ran long almost right up to 8:00, so like you said, Fox aired the Simpsons episode and the second part of the KOTH two-parter as planned. And the reason the Raiders-Cardinals game was on Fox that week, because an NFC team was visiting Oakland, Fox had that game because the road team decides coverage.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> But if the network aired something that caused the scheduled program not to be aired on the East Coast, but it still airs on the West Coast...


Just for the record, when a network show gets unexpectedly preempted by the network in the Eastern/Central time zones, the network will air something else in the Pacific time zone (usually a rerun of the show).

Obviously, as others have said, it's a different matter when a local station preempts network programming.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

What happened here is very odd. The Giants-Bucs game also ran a bit long. At 7:20, they ran the opening for "The Simpsons" episode rerun. Then at 7:24, we got an announcement "Due to the length of today's FOX Sports presentation, we now join our regularly scheduled program, already in progress." followed by the last few minutes of the episode. Then "Bob's Burgers". I have no idea what happened in areas that got the 49ers-Cardinals game nor if the "Bobs Burgers" episode was the one originally scheduled.

Edit: The "Bob's Burgers" episode appears to match the description of the scheduled episode.

I'm getting all of this from the recording of the game. 1.5 hours of padding. I don't watch "Bob's Burgers".


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

The 49ers/Cardinals game was only shown in the west and it doesn't appear that any east coast Fox stations cut to the SF/AZ game once their other game ended, so it sounds like there was no issue with the new episode of Bob's Burgers in any market.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> What happened here is very odd. The Giants-Bucs game also ran a bit long. At 7:20, they ran the opening for "The Simpsons" episode rerun. Then at 7:24, we got an announcement "Due to the length of today's FOX Sports presentation, we now join our regularly scheduled program, already in progress." followed by the last few minutes of the episode. Then "Bob's Burgers". I have no idea what happened in areas that got the 49ers-Cardinals game nor if the "Bobs Burgers" episode was the one originally scheduled.


In the Pacific time zone, the game ended at 4:45 - long before it would affect Fox's prime time schedule. In the Mountain time zone, it ended at 5:45, which is 15 minutes before prime time begins on Sunday. I am assuming that the Simpsons repeat and the five new episodes scheduled for Sunday all aired on time; this definitely happened in San Francisco.

And running the opening credits of a show, followed by commercials, followed by joining the episode in progress is standard Fox operating procedure if it is a repeat, and I have seen it done with new episodes as well, although it has been a while. The most blatant example I can think of was back in 2003, when Fox's national NFL coverage ran until about 7:45 Eastern; in the eastern half of the country, Fox aired the opening credits to that night's scheduled new Christmas episode of _King of the Hill_, then commercials, then the last five minutes of the episode itself. Fox then aired the entire episode in the west, and at first said, "We aired the episode, so we do not have plans to air it again any time soon," but so many people complained that Fox cancelled a repeat airing of a different Christmas special a few days later and aired the episode in its place.

But since Fox did _not_ air the end of the 49ers-Cardinals game in all of the cities that had a late NFL game, that makes me wonder what would have happened had, say, the Giants game run past 8:00. Since you say that the Simpsons repeat had its opening credits air, that makes me think that maybe there is a "second Eastern feed" for a situation like that, which makes sense, as they would need a "second feed" to air the NFL game in the first place.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

What we really don't know is what would have happened if a game carried in the East or Central time zones had run past 7:30PM EDT and thus into the new episode of "Bob's Burgers".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fox used to use Futurama as effectively a buffer show, routinely joining it in progress when the game ended. Then again, Fox seemed to hate Futurama...


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

CBS has multiple feeds for_ 60 Minutes_, which raises an interesting question for this week: Charlotte was switched(per the NFL maps webpage) to the Seattle @ LA Rams game. So they are the only market in the east or central time zones to get that game, so CBS will need a 3rd feed for _60 Minutes_ for that market only. Could get interesting for ratings purposes if the Seahawks-Rams game goes into overtime, and Charlotte is the only ET/CT market to experience a delay.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

And it's not just Sunday

Thursday's too.. I hope people know to pad 'Colbert' for the time CBS has the Thursday game. 





(yes, I know this has been discussed in the past)


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> What we really don't know is what would have happened if a game carried in the East or Central time zones had run past 7:30PM EDT and thus into the new episode of "Bob's Burgers".


Well, the next day the show has a new episode is 10/15, so we may find out then...

Actually, and this is pretty much a guess, I would say that the few cities that got the long-running game would receive a separate Fox feed to air the Sunday night schedule in its entirety. (Another option is for the stations to record the feed starting at 7:30, and it would be handled on a station-by-station basis.)

Note that if it is a Fox doubleheader day, and a game runs past 8:00, they do delay the entire schedule, except that if it reaches 8:30, then they will pre-empt one of the shows (and air a repeat of that series in the west). Also note that, because of an NFL rule, Fox's (and CBS's) game coverage must end once the NBC Sunday night game begins at around 8:35.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I think it would be a rare case where a game would run into the NBC Sunday night game, such as weather.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Well, the next day the show has a new episode is 10/15, so we may find out then...
> 
> Actually, and this is pretty much a guess, I would say that the few cities that got the long-running game would receive a separate Fox feed to air the Sunday night schedule in its entirety. (Another option is for the stations to record the feed starting at 7:30, and it would be handled on a station-by-station basis.)
> 
> Note that if it is a Fox doubleheader day, and a game runs past 8:00, they do delay the entire schedule, except that if it reaches 8:30, then they will pre-empt one of the shows (and air a repeat of that series in the west). Also note that, because of an NFL rule, Fox's (and CBS's) game coverage must end once the NBC Sunday night game begins at around 8:35.


But if FOX was carrying the World Series after an NFL doubleheader, my guess is that the league might ignore that rule, so that FOX's baseball coverage starts at the same time everywhere.

Years ago, when the LCS was on FOX exclusively, the NFL would simply not apply that rule to FOX for that week.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I think it would be a rare case where a game would run into the NBC Sunday night game, such as weather.


Which is exactly what happened on 9/17 - it was a Fox doubleheader day, and a 4:25 game was delayed for about an hour because of lightning in the area, so it was still being played at 8:35 Eastern. Fox had a new episode of The Orville followed by repeats of The Simpsons and Family Guy scheduled; The Orville and The Simpsons aired 45 minutes late, but Family Guy did not.



danderson400 said:


> But if FOX was carrying the World Series after an NFL doubleheader, my guess is that the league might ignore that rule, so that FOX's baseball coverage starts at the same time everywhere.


This has happened, too, but maybe not to Fox; I remember watching an afternoon game on NBC that was interrupted around 7:30 Eastern so NBC could air its national news followed by a World Series game. Note that Fox has an NFL doubleheader on the same day it will air World Series Game 5, assuming the series doesn't end in four games.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Which is exactly what happened on 9/17 - it was a Fox doubleheader day, and a 4:25 game was delayed for about an hour because of lightning in the area, so it was still being played at 8:35 Eastern. Fox had a new episode of The Orville followed by repeats of The Simpsons and Family Guy scheduled; The Orville and The Simpsons aired 45 minutes late, but Family Guy did not.
> 
> This has happened, too, but maybe not to Fox; I remember watching an afternoon game on NBC that was interrupted around 7:30 Eastern so NBC could air its national news followed by a World Series game. Note that Fox has an NFL doubleheader on the same day it will air World Series Game 5, assuming the series doesn't end in four games.


There was a game a few years ago, Philadelphia at Arizona, that ran almost right up to the start of the World Series; Fox showed that game to it's conclusion, then joined the World Series pregame. It was a singleheader, so it didn't have as much impact. I can't see the Cowboys/Redskins game for that week having much impact, unless it's an overtime game, or a high scoring game.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> Also note that, because of an NFL rule, Fox's (and CBS's) game coverage must end once the NBC Sunday night game begins at around 8:35.


That's only in markets that are getting "bonus coverage," as with that Broncos game that was delayed due to lightning a few weeks ago. Every market got switched to that game once their original game was over, but the ones that hadn't _started_ with it were switched away from it (to a brief "due to NFL rules..." explanation by Curt Menefee, then a commercial break, and then "The Orville" delayed about 40 minutes). Every market that had started with the Broncos game saw it in its entirety, even though it was overlapping the NBC game, and got "The Orville" delayed about 50 minutes.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Although, i think that Fox could ask the NFL to delay the Sunday night game, until the the other game was over, that way, everyone would be on the same page.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

trainman said:


> That's only in markets that are getting "bonus coverage," as with that Broncos game that was delayed due to lightning a few weeks ago. Every market got switched to that game once their original game was over, but the ones that hadn't _started_ with it were switched away from it (to a brief "due to NFL rules..." explanation by Curt Menefee, then a commercial break, and then "The Orville" delayed about 40 minutes). Every market that had started with the Broncos game saw it in its entirety, even though it was overlapping the NBC game, and got "The Orville" delayed about 50 minutes.


on Christmas Eve, that rule won't apply; since NBC doesn't do their game until the day after. In fact, NBC has two games that week, one on Saturday, the other on Monday.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> In the Pacific time zone, the game ended at 4:45 - long before it would affect Fox's prime time schedule. In the Mountain time zone, it ended at 5:45, which is 15 minutes before prime time begins on Sunday. I am assuming that the Simpsons repeat and the five new episodes scheduled for Sunday all aired on time; this definitely happened in San Francisco.
> 
> And running the opening credits of a show, followed by commercials, followed by joining the episode in progress is standard Fox operating procedure if it is a repeat, and I have seen it done with new episodes as well, although it has been a while. The most blatant example I can think of was back in 2003, when Fox's national NFL coverage ran until about 7:45 Eastern; in the eastern half of the country, Fox aired the opening credits to that night's scheduled new Christmas episode of _King of the Hill_, then commercials, then the last five minutes of the episode itself. Fox then aired the entire episode in the west, and at first said, "We aired the episode, so we do not have plans to air it again any time soon," but so many people complained that Fox cancelled a repeat airing of a different Christmas special a few days later and aired the episode in its place.
> 
> But since Fox did _not_ air the end of the 49ers-Cardinals game in all of the cities that had a late NFL game, that makes me wonder what would have happened had, say, the Giants game run past 8:00. Since you say that the Simpsons repeat had its opening credits air, that makes me think that maybe there is a "second Eastern feed" for a situation like that, which makes sense, as they would need a "second feed" to air the NFL game in the first place.


Did Fox join The Simpsons in progress this Sunday, for stations that had the Tampa Bay at Arizona game?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

danderson400 said:


> Did Fox join The Simpsons in progress this Sunday, for stations that had the Tampa Bay at Arizona game?


No. What time did the game end? "The Simpsons" came on as scheduled @8PM EDT. There was a rerun of "Ghosted" @7 and a new "Bobs Burgers" @7:30. Don't know about either of those.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> No. What time did the game end? "The Simpsons" came on as scheduled @8PM EDT. There was a rerun of "Ghosted" @7 and a new "Bobs Burgers" @7:30. Don't know about either of those.


Looks like the only markets in ET that had the Tampa @ Arizona game were most of Florida and Atlanta. But I know we got the new Bob's Burgers here in AZ, so I'm assuming the game ended early enough on the East Coast that the new Bob's Burgers was run there as well.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Looks like the only markets in ET that had the Tampa @ Arizona game were most of Florida and Atlanta. But I know we got the new Bob's Burgers here in AZ, so I'm assuming the game ended early enough on the East Coast that the new Bob's Burgers was run there as well.


Even if it would have run late, it would not have affected the airing of the new Bob's Burgers episode as the vast majority of the Eastern and Central time zones did not have a 4:05 NFL game on Fox. If Fox schedules anything in Arizona in the pre-Simpsons time slot, there is nothing planned to pre-empt it out east. (On Fox's national NFL doubleheader days, Fox lets the local affiliates in the Mountain and Pacific time zones fill the 7-8 Pacific / 6-7 Mountain block with its own programs. Fox tried "western only" programming in the pre-Simpsons block for a few years, but decided that it wasn't worth the bother.)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> Even if it would have run late, it would not have affected the airing of the new Bob's Burgers episode as the vast majority of the Eastern and Central time zones did not have a 4:05 NFL game on Fox. If Fox schedules anything in Arizona in the pre-Simpsons time slot, there is nothing planned to pre-empt it out east. (On Fox's national NFL doubleheader days, Fox lets the local affiliates in the Mountain and Pacific time zones fill the 7-8 Pacific / 6-7 Mountain block with its own programs. Fox tried "western only" programming in the pre-Simpsons block for a few years, but decided that it wasn't worth the bother.)


But isn't this exactly the situation we've been discussing in this thread? If a limited number of markets in the ET have an overrun, will that cause the network to delay or preempt the scheduled new episodes? So what happened with Bob's Burgers in Central Florida and Atlanta yesterday?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> But isn't this exactly the situation we've been discussing in this thread? If a limited number of markets in the ET have an overrun, will that cause the network to delay or preempt the scheduled new episodes? So what happened with Bob's Burgers in Central Florida and Atlanta yesterday?


It would help a lot if someone knew what time the game ended.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> It would help a lot if someone knew what time the game ended.


Unfortunately I already deleted my recording. But I'm pretty sure I set it to have a 30-minute pad at the end, and the game ended before the recording did. According to the guide, it was scheduled to end at 4 pm MST/PDT, and if my recording went until 4:30 and got the end of the game, then I don't think it went past the beginning of Bob's Burgers at 7:30 ET.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Unfortunately I already deleted my recording. But I'm pretty sure I set it to have a 30-minute pad at the end, and the game ended before the recording did. According to the guide, it was scheduled to end at 4 pm MST/PDT, and if my recording went until 4:30 and got the end of the game, then I don't think it went past the beginning of Bob's Burgers at 7:30 ET.


I tried to find something but the NFL doesn't seem to record time of game anywhere that I could find.

I do remember that all games were over when we turned on the baseball game which started just after 7:30 pm ET.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Unfortunately I already deleted my recording. But I'm pretty sure I set it to have a 30-minute pad at the end, and the game ended before the recording did. According to the guide, it was scheduled to end at 4 pm MST/PDT, and if my recording went until 4:30 and got the end of the game, then I don't think it went past the beginning of Bob's Burgers at 7:30 ET.


Has it already been *permanently* deleted?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> But isn't this exactly the situation we've been discussing in this thread? If a limited number of markets in the ET have an overrun, will that cause the network to delay or preempt the scheduled new episodes? So what happened with Bob's Burgers in Central Florida and Atlanta yesterday?


The original post was talking about national - well, the entire Eastern and Central time zones - overruns, which happen on NFL doubleheader days. However, I think we are talking about two different things; when you said, "Will that cause the network to delay or preempt the scheduled new episodes," I thought you were talking nationwide, rather than just in the cities affected.



lpwcomp said:


> It would help a lot if someone knew what time the game ended.


The NFL does list how long a game lasted in its statistics, if you know where to look for them.
1. Go to www.nfl.com, click on "Schedule", select the date you want, and click on the "Game Center" button next to the game in question.
2. Close the video window at the top of the page. You may have to wait until the ads end before the "X" shows up in the upper-right corner.
3. The "Game Access" window appears; click on "Download Game Book (PDF)". The length of the game appears right below the "Scoring Plays" list, on the same line as the attendance. The game's start time is listed at the top. However, this does not take into account the length of the post-game show, or the commercials that follow it.
I am pretty sure the game time is listed somewhere else, but I can't seem to find it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Has it already been *permanently* deleted?


Yes. My drive is pretty much always full. So I deleted it after watching to prevent other stuff I haven't watched from being deleted.


That Don Guy said:


> The original post was talking about national - well, the entire Eastern and Central time zones - overruns, which happen on NFL doubleheader days. However, I think we are talking about two different things; when you said, "Will that cause the network to delay or preempt the scheduled new episodes," I thought you were talking nationwide, rather than just in the cities affected.


I thought the question was if there is a game that runs over in some markets in the ET/CT, but not all markets, what will the network do with the show that would be missed. Will they delay it for everyone? Will they stick in a rerun on the fly and save the new episode for a later date? Will they run it as scheduled in all other markets and the affected markets will just have to air the affected show at another time?


That Don Guy said:


> The NFL does list how long a game lasted in its statistics, if you know where to look for them.
> 1. Go to www.nfl.com, click on "Schedule", select the date you want, and click on the "Game Center" button next to the game in question.
> 2. Close the video window at the top of the page. You may have to wait until the ads end before the "X" shows up in the upper-right corner.
> 3. The "Game Access" window appears; click on "Download Game Book (PDF)". The length of the game appears right below the "Scoring Plays" list, on the same line as the attendance. The game's start time is listed at the top. However, this does not take into account the length of the post-game show, or the commercials that follow it.
> I am pretty sure the game time is listed somewhere else, but I can't seem to find it.


According to that, the Bucs @ Cardinals game started at 1:05 (4:05 ET) and lasted 3:12, so it ended at 7:17 or 13 minutes before Bob's Burgers started on the East Coast. So basically, this whole tangent was moot, because this was not one of the situations that this thread is discussing.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Well, there is still the question of what they did for those 13 minutes.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought the question was if there is a game that runs over in some markets in the ET/CT, but not all markets, what will the network do with the show that would be missed. Will they delay it for everyone? Will they stick in a rerun on the fly and save the new episode for a later date? Will they run it as scheduled in all other markets and the affected markets will just have to air the affected show at another time?


First off, Fox never pulls an episode for a "partial" overrun. I have seen (well, been told about, anyway) Simpsons episodes start at 8:20 Eastern, with the rest of the schedule pushed back 20 minutes as well, because of overruns.

As for a full overrun of a non-national game, Fox obviously can't delay it for the rest of the country, for the simple reason that by the time it realizes that the NFL game will overrun the entire time slot, the episode has finished airing. Your last sentence - run it as scheduled, and the affected markets will just have to air it at another time - is the most likely answer.



lpwcomp said:


> Well, there is still the question of what they did for those 13 minutes.


The most likely answer is, those stations aired the final 10 minutes or so of the Simpsons repeat that aired in the rest of the eastern half of the country at 7:00 Eastern.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

The latest I've seen the Simpsons start was after the Rams-49ers game a few years ago, when that game ended in a tie. And maybe once or twice when NASCAR was delayed because of rain.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> The latest I've seen the Simpsons start was after the Rams-49ers game a few years ago, when that game ended in a tie. And maybe once or twice when NASCAR was delayed because of rain.


I have been keeping an eye on late Simpsons starts for years, and the record for the Eastern/Central time zones for unplanned delays seems to be 90 minutes, but in that instance, it was a repeat. The record for a first-run episode appears to be 42 minutes. Both times, the culprit was a NASCAR rain delay.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I noticed something tonight- _60 Minutes_ started after the Steelers game, but the Giants-Seahawks game was still going on. Did the people getting that game get _60 Minutes_ later than those getting the Bengals-Steelers game?


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Tonight in my area (Indianapolis), the Bengals-Steelers game ended 2-3 minutes after 7:30, when 60 Minutes was supposed to start-so if you didn't pad your recording, you would have missed the epic "60 Minutes moment" from 1983...

UGH-but I padded mine so all was well. 

I HATE FOOTBALL!


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Regina said:


> I HATE FOOTBALL!


Me too.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

danderson400 said:


> I noticed something tonight- _60 Minutes_ started after the Steelers game, but the Giants-Seahawks game was still going on. Did the people getting that game get _60 Minutes_ later than those getting the Bengals-Steelers game?


That game should have been on FOX, not CBS.

Edit:Just checked and it was indeed on CBS. Why? Both teams are NFC.

Edit 2: Why do you think it was still going? According to the Gamebook, it should have ended at 7:31PM EDT. (Start time of 4:25 and Time: 3:06.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I was surprised about that too. the Jets game was on Fox, how screwed was that?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> That game should have been on FOX, not CBS.
> 
> Edit:Just checked and it was indeed on CBS. Why? Both teams are NFC.





danderson400 said:


> I was surprised about that too. the Jets game was on Fox, how screwed was that?


A few years ago - I think in 2014 - the NFL decided to start airing games on the "wrong" network after noticing that there were too many cases where "the best game of the day" was not on the doubleheader network, so only a small portion of the country would see it. This is usually called "cross-flexing," although that's a bit of a misnomer as the games aren't "flexed" since they are on the schedule from the start. Note that it's not always the doubleheader network that gets the cross-flexed game; for example, in week 12, the Seahawks-49ers game will be on Fox, but that is because the Raiders have a game at the same time on CBS, and both have to air in San Francisco.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> A few years ago - I think in 2014 - the NFL decided to start airing games on the "wrong" network after noticing that there were too many cases where "the best game of the day" was not on the doubleheader network, so only a small portion of the country would see it. This is usually called "cross-flexing," although that's a bit of a misnomer as the games aren't "flexed" since they are on the schedule from the start. *Note that it's not always the doubleheader network that gets the cross-flexed game; for example, in week 12, the Seahawks-49ers game will be on Fox, but that is because the Raiders have a game at the same time on CBS, and both have to air in San Francisco.*


I was with you until the last sentence. How is this an example of "cross-flexing"? Both games are on the "proper" network.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> A few years ago - I think in 2014 - the NFL decided to start airing games on the "wrong" network after noticing that there were too many cases where "the best game of the day" was not on the doubleheader network, so only a small portion of the country would see it. This is usually called "cross-flexing," although that's a bit of a misnomer as the games aren't "flexed" since they are on the schedule from the start. Note that it's not always the doubleheader network that gets the cross-flexed game; for example, in week 12, the Seahawks-49ers game will be on Fox, but that is because the Raiders have a game at the same time on CBS, and both have to air in San Francisco.


What was even weirder is that the Jets-Dolphins game was on at 1PM on FOX, and the Giants-Seahawks game was on 4:25 on CBS. Both on their opposite networks. All the old rules seemed to be gone.

Anyway, CBS has been doing the same thing with their late game schedules for years. Those of us with DVRs (which I'm assuming is EVERYONE here), should know by now to pad CBS' lineup during football season (and it's really not a bad idea to leave it padded since they might still have overruns on Golf and CBB coverage as well).


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> I was with you until the last sentence. How is this an example of "cross-flexing"? Both games are on the "proper" network.


One of these days, I'm going to remember the Seahawks are in the NFC now...


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> One of these days, I'm going to remember the Seahawks are in the NFC now...


Sorta got burned into my consciousness by Super Bowl XLVIII.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

The 11/5 Redskins-Seahawks game on Fox ran past 7:30 Eastern. If any of you live in any of these cities:
Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Richmond (VA), Norfolk, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Nashville, Jacksonville
Could you tell me if:
(a) Bob's Burgers was joined in progress, or had its entire episode air; or
(b) whether any of the later shows (The Simpsons; Ghosted; Family Guy; The Last Man on Earth) started on time or was delayed?


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> The 11/5 Redskins-Seahawks game on Fox ran past 7:30 Eastern. If any of you live in any of these cities:
> Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Richmond (VA), Norfolk, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Nashville, Jacksonville
> Could you tell me if:
> (a) Bob's Burgers was joined in progress, or had its entire episode air; or
> (b) whether any of the later shows (The Simpsons; Ghosted; Family Guy; The Last Man on Earth) started on time or was delayed?


Here in Indy, Bob's Burgers was shown in its entirety and the later shows were delayed-but shown in their entirety as well-
Good thing I always pad!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Regina said:


> Here in Indy, Bob's Burgers was shown in its entirety and the later shows were delayed-but shown in their entirety as well-
> Good thing I always pad!


Same here in Maryland. Everything full and delayed. I think it was about 14 minutes?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Same here in Maryland. Everything full and delayed. I think it was about 14 minutes?


That pretty much answers that question, then - Fox apparently has "two eastern feeds" when it's not an NFL doubleheader day.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> That pretty much answers that question, then - Fox apparently has "two eastern feeds" when it's not an NFL doubleheader day.


That is not necessarily the case. Local stations have some control over it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> That is not necessarily the case. Local stations have some control over it.


The only way a local station could show the shows on time on its own would be if Fox delivered the shows early and then the local stations ran them. That is apparently not the case or there would be a ton of variation on times. Local stations can delay something but how do they put it on earlier than the obvious Fox feed that had a football game on it?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> The only way a local station could show the shows on time on its own would be if Fox delivered the shows early and then the local stations ran them. That is apparently not the case or there would be a ton of variation on times. Local stations can delay something but how do they put it on earlier than the obvious Fox feed that had a football game on it?


What are you talking about? None of the stations showed anything "early". The game that ran late was only shown in a few markets. FOX did not have a late national game.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> What are you talking about? None of the stations showed anything "early". The game that ran late was only shown in a few markets. FOX did not have a late national game.


The observation was made that there must be two eastern Fox feeds. One for the areas that had the game, hence, late by 16 minutes. The other for non-game. For it to be obvious that there are two feeds, the non-game feed started the shows on time.

You said that local stations have sway over that.

There are two alternatives if there is only one feed:

1. The one feed has the lineup on time. That would require every station in each local market to delay by the exact same amount (I have two Fox stations; they were in lockstep). So that is unlikely.

2. The one feed is delayed until the last game is over. That would mean the stations in the non-game market had to show the programming earlier than the one feed which may be schedule-wise on time but is actually earlier than the feed.

The logical conclusion is that there is more than one feed. Which is hardly far-fetched since the games have multiple feeds themselves.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Local stations have the ability to delay the broadcast of a network show. They do so all of the time when there is a planned local preemption. It wouldn't require any coordination if they simply all started the broadcast x minutes after the end of the game coverage. Why would there be local variations?

Maybe there are separate feeds (I said "not necessarily"), but concluding that there are is not supported by the available data.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Local stations have the ability to delay the broadcast of a network show. They do so all of the time when there is a planned local preemption. It wouldn't require any coordination if they simply all started the broadcast x minutes after the end of the game coverage. Why would there be local variations?
> 
> Maybe there are separate feeds (I said "not necessarily"), but concluding that there are is not supported by the available data.


There are separate feeds. Just like there are for the games.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> Local stations have the ability to delay the broadcast of a network show. They do so all of the time when there is a planned local preemption. It wouldn't require any coordination if they simply all started the broadcast x minutes after the end of the game coverage. Why would there be local variations?
> 
> Maybe there are separate feeds (I said "not necessarily"), but concluding that there are is not supported by the available data.


There would be variations because nobody gets things 100% correct. My two fox stations were totally in sync. And why would local stations hold up network programming when the network was the reason. Local stations hold things up for local news or weather, not a network nfl game.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> And why would local stations hold up network programming when the network was the reason. Local stations hold things up for local news or weather, not a network nfl game.


Because otherwise, if they're aren't 2 feeds, they would have 2 choices:

a. switch to regular programming at the scheduled time and thus stop showing a game that they were only getting because it is of interest to* their *viewers*.
*
b. Join the scheduled program in progress, thus angering everyone who watches that program.

I have never claimed that there weren't multiple feeds, just that what we lacked sufficient data to know for sure.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> Because otherwise, if they're aren't 2 feeds, they would have 2 choices:
> 
> a. switch to regular programming at the scheduled time and thus stop showing a game that they were only getting because it is of interest to* their *viewers*.
> *
> ...


Sure. All the fox channels showing the game decided to do that on their own.

There was a football feed that was separate 16 minutes into prime time. That's two feeds at that point. Therefore there are two feeds unless you know of a way to show football and bobs burgers on a single feed at the same time.

Now, did anyone see what the fox announcers were saying about prime time during the game?


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## catgirl007 (Nov 6, 2017)

I'm not happy about sports hogging the earlier times and now Madam Secretary is slated for 10:30 pm and starts even later. Thus i've resorted to taping....sigh...


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I guess we are glad that the Bengals ran out the clock, because if the Broncos tied the game, it's a good chance that Madam Secretary would have been bumped.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

It could happen next week... CBS has 3 games at 4:25. If one of them runs past 7:57:56 p.m, then Madam Secretary get preempted, correct?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I guess we are glad that the Bengals ran out the clock, because if the Broncos tied the game, it's a good chance that Madam Secretary would have been bumped.





danderson400 said:


> It could happen next week... CBS has 3 games at 4:25. If one of them runs past 7:57:56 p.m, then Madam Secretary get preempted, correct?


No, CBS just delays the broadcasts. I don't remember them bumping or pre-empting their 10PM show because of football. As it was, here in the NYC area (and I'm sure in most of the Eastern time zone) the whole CBS slate was pushed back around 5 minutes.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

CBS sucks at managing Sunday night airtime!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS sucks at managing Sunday night airtime!


No, CBS just pushes back their entire schedule when there is a football overrun. We've discussed it dozens of times here in the forum that they do this intentionally because on those nights when they delay their schedule, they get higher ratings than in the weeks when they don't. You may not like it, but from a business standpoint, they're not mismanaging anything at all.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> No, CBS just pushes back their entire schedule when there is a football overrun. We've discussed it dozens of times here in the forum that they do this intentionally because on those nights when they delay their schedule, they get higher ratings than in the weeks when they don't. You may not like it, but from a business standpoint, they're not mismanaging anything at all.


CBS pushes back 50 0f 52 weeks. Why not change the schedule CBS?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS pushes back 50 0f 52 weeks. Why not change the schedule CBS?


Because they get more Grandpas who don't know what a DVR is and who struggle to get out of the chair to change the channel when football is over than people who are tech-savvy enough to get pissed off at their shenanigans.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS pushes back 50 0f 52 weeks. Why not change the schedule CBS?


CBS probably postpones their Sunday night schedule 10-15 time per year, max. And as I (and Rob) said before, they actually root for these situations because they result in better ratings.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS pushes back 50 0f 52 weeks. Why not change the schedule CBS?


Why would they? It's beneficial to them when it happens. It doesn't hurt either that their lead in show is iconic in that timeslot and people seek it out. Considering that 60 Minutes often has stories that are relative to that particular time frame, making it a show that many people like to watch live, it's not a show they want to move out of that slot. Also, there's the other 50% of the country where the schedule isn't affected by football. So it makes sense to maintain their 4 hours of primetime. Fox doesn't have that kind of show, nor any history of having a hit show at 7PM. It's easy to much around with that hour before their real schedule starts.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS pushes back 50 0f 52 weeks.


Ridiculous hyperbole.



Sparky1234 said:


> Why not change the schedule CBS?


They did "change the schedule". On weeks when they have a late national game, they delay the start of the prime time schedule.

What *you* want them to do is give up an hour of Sunday prime time.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> What *you* want them to do is give up an hour of Sunday prime time.


Well, what *I *want is for them to show their ****ing shows on time.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, what *I *want is for them to show their ******* shows on time.


For those of us with DVRs (everyone here?) why does it matter. Just pad the SP and be done with it. That's what I do. I could care less when the schedule starts. I will sometimes peak into the CBS games to see how far along they are and pad accordingly for that week, but usually my 30 minute pad is sufficient.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> For those of us with DVRs (everyone here?) why does it matter. Just pad the SP and be done with it. That's what I do. I could care less when the schedule starts. I will sometimes peak into the CBS games to see how far along they are and pad accordingly for that week, but usually my 30 minute pad is sufficient.


Because 5 minute overrun means keeping 2 shows to catch the last 5 minutes. When you binge watch a series that can be many hours of saved shows. CBS Sunday night is becomming irrelevant.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> Ridiculous hyperbole.
> 
> They did "change the schedule". On weeks when they have a late national game, they delay the start of the prime time schedule.
> 
> What *you* want them to do is give up an hour of Sunday prime time.


To each his own. CBS Sunday night TV schedule sucks!


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> CBS probably postpones their Sunday night schedule 10-15 time per year, max. And as I (and Rob) said before, they actually root for these situations because they result in better ratings.


Zero rating from me. Not worth my time....


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Because they get more Grandpas who don't know what a DVR is and who struggle to get out of the chair to change the channel when football is over than people who are tech-savvy enough to get pissed off at their shenanigans.


Concur! I'm pissed off!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> Because 5 minute overrun means keeping 2 shows to catch the last 5 minutes. When you binge watch a series that can be many hours of saved shows. CBS Sunday night is becomming irrelevant.


hmmmm, how do you figure? You can pad each of these shows and get the whole thing in each recording. That's what I do.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> hmmmm, how do you figure? You can pad each of these shows and get the whole thing in each recording. That's what I do.


I just don't watch CBS Sunday night shows. Haven't for over a decade.

I figured they would have caved in by now, but apparently they're as stubborn as I am.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I just don't watch CBS Sunday night shows. Haven't for over a decade.
> 
> I figured they would have caved in by now, but apparently they're as stubborn as I am.


As stated above, why would they cave? Rating are better with the NFL lead in. It's proven time and time again that the way they do it now works. Maybe they loose the non-football fan, or the fan who can't be bothered (or doesn't know how) to set up their SP properly, but for the rest of us, it's not a huge deal. In fact, quite often I used to watch the CBS stuff live after the games and go back and watch my other recorded stuff at a later time (and THAT is exactly what CBS is hoping happens and why they do it). My assumption here is that you aren't a football fan, so this does inconvenience you.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It does inconvenience me...and more importantly, it pisses me off. The whole point of having a DVR is not having to screw around like this. And frankly, I watch too much TV anyway, so if CBS wants to save me from watching more shows, I guess I should thank them.

Every other network that has shown football on Sunday afternoons has made it work, and oddly enough, none of them has gone under. CBS just doesn't want my business, and that's OK with me.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It does inconvenience me...and more importantly, it pisses me off. The whole point of having a DVR is not having to screw around like this. And frankly, I watch too much TV anyway, so if CBS wants to save me from watching more shows, I guess I should thank them.
> 
> Every other network that has shown football on Sunday afternoons has made it work, and oddly enough, none of them has gone under. *CBS just doesn't want my business*, and that's OK with me.


Haven't they made that pretty clear by the programming they choose to air?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Every other network that has shown football on Sunday afternoons has made it work, and oddly enough, none of them has gone under. CBS just doesn't want my business, and that's OK with me.


Even with "The OT", FOX has occasionally had to slip their schedule.

What exactly do you think they should do, keeping in mind that one of the reasons we got where we are is the infamous "Heidi game".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Do what Fox and NBC (back when they had football) do...flexible programming between game and evening schedule.

There's always going to be glitches. But there's no reason why every week should be a glitch, and on CBS, most weeks during football and golf season are glitches.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Do what Fox and NBC (back when they had football) do...flexible programming between game and evening schedule.
> 
> There's always going to be glitches. But there's no reason why every week should be a glitch, and on CBS, most weeks during football and golf season are glitches.


IOW, give up part of their prime time schedule.

FOX has it easier as they have one less hour of programming AND it's all half hour shows.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> FOX has it easier as they have one less hour of programming AND it's all half hour shows.


But the "one less hour" is at the end of their schedule, not the beginning.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the "one less hour" is at the end of their schedule, not the beginning.


And they eliminated another 1/2 to a full hour with "The OT". On days when they have a national late game, they have at the most 2.5 hours of new programming, and sometimes only 2. What show should CBS remove from their Sunday schedule?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the "one less hour" is at the end of their schedule, not the beginning.


Well, sort of. On Sundays, the other three broadcast networks have four hours of prime time (7 pm - 11 pm), while technically FOX has three (7 pm - 10 pm), but even when it's not football season, FOX rarely uses that first 30 minutes (7-7:30) for new content. So from a programming standpoint, FOX basically only uses 2.5 hours of prime time on Sunday, with 30 minutes of the difference being at the beginning, and the other hour being at the end.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

lpwcomp said:


> And they eliminated another 1/2 to a full hour with "The OT". On days when they have a national late game, they have at the most 2.5 hours of new programming, and sometimes only 2. What show should CBS remove from their Sunday schedule?


Theoretically, they could do what NBC did...have a flex 60 Minutes.

(My secret theory for why they can't actually do that is that their correspondents are too old to stay up late enough to do the show live...)


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Theoretically, they could do what NBC did...have a flex 60 Minutes.
> 
> (My secret theory for why they can't actually do that is that their correspondents are too old to stay up late enough to do the show live...)


They did that briefly many years ago. They would show a version with one or more of the segments removed. People hated that.

The only way to come close to eliminating the problem would be to remove one of the shows as they have already pushed the entire schedule by half an hour when they have a late national game.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> For those of us with DVRs (everyone here?) why does it matter. Just pad the SP and be done with it. That's what I do. I could care less when the schedule starts. I will sometimes peak into the CBS games to see how far along they are and pad accordingly for that week, but usually my 30 minute pad is sufficient.


I find sometimes 30 minutes pad isn't enough. My pet peeve is I may have several weeks before I get to the shows, so the three shows, 60 Minutes, NCIS LA & Madam Secretary, with a 60 minute pad on each, can be a problem when running out of space.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> Agreed. CBS does not care about its customers.


Their customers are exactly why they do this. If their customers stopped watching, you'd see how fast they stop doing that. Their customers eyesballs are watching the shows after the games. More often then when the games aren't there. What they DON'T appearently care about are customers who don't watch football. Looking at the ratings for the NFL (even on a down year like the last two), they are better than the average TV show. It's the perfect lead in to their Sunday night lineup.

It's ironic that this discussion is happening just about 49 years to the day (well Nov 17th) of the reason why CBS does this. There was a time when the networks would not show the rest of the game and go to their regularly scheduled shows. The most famous time this happened was Nov 17th 1968 on NBC, when they left their NFL game to show Heidi. This caused an outrage among football fans who wanted to see the end of the game and as it turned out the team losing at the time scored 2 TDs in the last minute or so to win the game. But fans couldn't see it because they went to their prime time lineup. So it was the FANS who decided that this is no longer good practice.

Heidi Game - Wikipedia

You could argue, well maybe Sundays during football season they should shorten their schedule to 3 hours and start at 8. Vital point. But this is problematic in that that's lost revenue to the channel and the show left off (lets say it's Madame Sec'y), will have fans who will be upset that it's not shown. Plus, half the country doesn't have this issue. What CBS does is best for them, and ratings prove it.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> Their customers are exactly why they do this. If their customers stopped watching, you'd see how fast they stop doing that. Their customers eyesballs are watching the shows after the games. More often then when the games aren't there. What they DON'T appearently care about are customers who don't watch football. Looking at the ratings for the NFL (even on a down year like the last two), they are better than the average TV show. It's the perfect lead in to their Sunday night lineup.
> 
> It's ironic that this discussion is happening just about 49 years to the day (well Nov 17th) of the reason why CBS does this. There was a time when the networks would not show the rest of the game and go to their regularly scheduled shows. The most famous time this happened was Nov 17th 1968 on NBC, when they left their NFL game to show Heidi. This caused an outrage among football fans who wanted to see the end of the game and as it turned out the team losing at the time scored 2 TDs in the last minute or so to win the game. But fans couldn't see it because they went to their prime time lineup. So it was the FANS who decided that this is no longer good practice.
> 
> ...


CBS does not care about its customers.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS does not care about its customers.


Repeating it doesn't make it any more true 

Do you watch the NFL on CBS?


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> Repeating it doesn't make it any more true
> 
> Do you watch the NFL on CBS?


CBS does not care about its customers.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS does not care about its customers.


Maybe not its Dish customers... (Seriously, all CBS-owned stations, including the CBS stations in New York, LA, and San Francisco, have been pulled from Dish since Tuesday.)

But no network is going to care about _all_ of its customers; that is impossible. "Don't show Thursday Night Football any more - it messes up the Thursday Fall schedule!" "Keep showing Thursday night football!"
They will even make choices that a considerable number of viewers don't want, for their own gains - "Don't show (insert the name of a show here) at (some time slot), as I want to watch (another show on another network)!"


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS does not care about its customers.


CBS's customers are not the viewers. CBS's customers are its advertisers, who are paying CBS to deliver eyeballs and earholes to their commercials. As long as they're doing that adequately -- and the ratings seem to indicate that they are -- neither the advertisers nor CBS have any reason to change the state of affairs.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Sparky1234 said:


> CBS does not care about its customers.


*POOF* You are now head of CBS programming. What is your solution?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> *POOF* You are now head of CBS programming. What is your solution?


Don't feed the troll.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> *POOF* You are now head of CBS programming. What is your solution?


How about running a schedule on schedule.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

trainman said:


> CBS's customers are not the viewers. CBS's customers are its advertisers, who are paying CBS to deliver eyeballs and earholes to their commercials. As long as they're doing that adequately -- and the ratings seem to indicate that they are -- neither the advertisers nor CBS have any reason to change the state of affairs.


I forgot I was a pawn who buys their stuff. Thanks for the friendly reminder.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> Maybe not its Dish customers... (Seriously, all CBS-owned stations, including the CBS stations in New York, LA, and San Francisco, have been pulled from Dish since Tuesday.)
> 
> But no network is going to care about _all_ of its customers; that is impossible. "Don't show Thursday Night Football any more - it messes up the Thursday Fall schedule!" "Keep showing Thursday night football!"
> They will even make choices that a considerable number of viewers don't want, for their own gains - "Don't show (insert the name of a show here) at (some time slot), as I want to watch (another show on another network)!"


I'm in total agreement. How do we change that dynamic? Boycott CBS advertisers?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> For those of us with DVRs (everyone here?) why does it matter. Just pad the SP and be done with it. That's what I do. I could care less when the schedule starts. I will sometimes peak into the CBS games to see how far along they are and pad accordingly for that week, but usually my 30 minute pad is sufficient.


I don't have any stats to analyze, but I would guess 25% require more than a 30 minute pad. You are flirting with danger son.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> How about running a schedule on schedule.


If you know a way to do this and not cut away from a nationally-broadcast NFL game - and we already know from history that cutting away from a game for "regular programming" is not going to happen any time soon (and given that a national NFL game on CBS gets far more viewers than anything else CBS airs on Sunday night, CBS absolutely "cares about its customers" by doing this) - then let CBS know.

CBS could do what Fox does and simply not schedule anything before 8 PM on its NFL doubleheader days, but that would mean (a) having to remove a show from the schedule, and (b) still run the risk of a delayed start if a game runs past 8:00, although those are rare now.



Sparky1234 said:


> I'm in total agreement. How do we change that dynamic? Boycott CBS advertisers?


Which dynamic - the Dish one (in which case, you threaten Dish that you will switch to DirecTV or your local cable company), or the one about counterprogramming, in which case, the only known effective method is not to watch the CBS show(s) in question; CBS should get the message and move the show to a different time. Of course, this has been known to backfire; IIRC, when ABC moved _Mork & Mindy_ in the height of its popularity to Sunday night against _All in the Family_, its ratings plummeted to where nobody cared about the show any more.

Remember, every network has two goals:
#1 - get you to watch their shows;
#2 - get you to _not_ watch other networks' shows.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> If you know a way to do this and not cut away from a nationally-broadcast NFL game - and we already know from history that cutting away from a game for "regular programming" is not going to happen any time soon (and given that a national NFL game on CBS gets far more viewers than anything else CBS airs on Sunday night, CBS absolutely "cares about its customers" by doing this) - then let CBS know.
> 
> CBS could do what Fox does and simply not schedule anything before 8 PM on its NFL doubleheader days, but that would mean (a) having to remove a show from the schedule, and (b) still run the risk of a delayed start if a game runs past 8:00, although those are rare now.
> 
> ...


My #3 watch another channel.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

lpwcomp said:


> Even with "The OT", FOX has occasionally had to slip their schedule.
> 
> What exactly do you think they should do, keeping in mind that one of the reasons we got where we are is the infamous "Heidi game".


Yeah, FOX has had to occasionally slip their schedule. Last year,(i think) the Lions-Colts game ran late, and FOX wanted to get in a preview of The X Factor, so prime time slipped to 8:10


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

brianric said:


> I find sometimes 30 minutes pad isn't enough. My pet peeve is I may have several weeks before I get to the shows, so the three shows, 60 Minutes, NCIS LA & Madam Secretary, with a 60 minute pad on each, can be a problem when running out of space.


I pad an extra 2 hours but have the same issue of not getting to these shows for weeks.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> I'm in total agreement. How do we change that dynamic? Boycott CBS advertisers?


The fact that ratings are better when there's a football lead in tells me that your boycott would fail. Lets say that they did what you wanted them to do, and now you have millions of irate football fans because they cut off the end of the game to show a 60 Minutes. I think that the number of irate "customers" would outnumber the non fans. After all that is exactly how the situation we are discussing in the first place started.

Yes, CBS doen't care about *SOME* of their customers....and those customers are a minority.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> The fact that ratings are better when there's a football lead in tells me that your boycott would fail. Lets say that they did what you wanted them to do, and now you have millions of irate football fans because they cut off the end of the game to show a 60 Minutes. I think that the number of irate "customers" would outnumber the non fans. After all that is exactly how the situation we are discussing in the first place started.
> 
> Yes, CBS doen't care about *SOME* of their customers....and those customers are a minority.


I must be one of the minority....


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I don't have any stats to analyze, but I would guess 25% require more than a 30 minute pad. You are flirting with danger son.


I'd say, as an avid viewer of the CBS schedule that it breaks down this way:

75% go over the allotted schedule but under 30 minutes
15% end within the allotted schedule
10% go over by more than 30 minutes.

So what I do is this...I have my pad set up for 30 minutes on the CBS shows I watch. When I need to go out, I'll extend the pad to an hour, otherwise I just keep an eye on the late CBS game and pad accordingly (as I may be watching the game anyway, it's not so difficult to do). When there were three shows in a row on CBS that I liked, I tended to just watch live anyway. Now that I don't watch the whole slate, I just make sure I pad. It's not really crazy difficult to do. And the once in 3 years I don't get it "right" I have Plex and can watch the CBS Channel (with no commercials) a couple of days later.

I get that you all don't want to deal with it, but it's really very doable.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Sparky1234 said:


> I pad an extra 2 hours but have the same issue of not getting to these shows for weeks.


Why not, since you know those shows have issues like that, just watch those shows first? Why give up something you enjoy for this type of issue? It's been like this for as long as I can remember, and it's not changing. Or, as you said, just stop watching if it annoys you that much. Nothing wrong with that. If ratings go down, CBS will change. But, as mentioned, since ratings actually go UP those weeks, I don't see this changing anytime soon.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Why not, since you know those shows have issues like that, just watch those shows first? Why give up something you enjoy for this type of issue? It's been like this for as long as I can remember, and it's not changing. Or, as you said, just stop watching if it annoys you that much. Nothing wrong with that. If ratings go down, CBS will change. But, as mentioned, since ratings actually go UP those weeks, I don't see this changing anytime soon.


Exactly. That's why I don't watch CBS on Sundays.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

What I do is, I flick to 60 Minutes at 6 PM CST. If it's on I watch it. If it isn't (most of the time), I switch to an unwatched show on the DVR, Netflix, Hulu, or futz around online.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

allan said:


> What I do is, I flick to 60 Minutes at 6 PM CST. If it's on I watch it. If it isn't (most of the time), I switch to an unwatched show on the DVR, Netflix, Hulu, or futz around online.


Exactly, no issue there. Alternatively, you could set up 60 Minutes with a pad and watch it at a later time, if that's a show you enjoy, as I do. To me, the issue goes away if you have a DVR or at least should. In the old days, if you watched CBS after an overrun, then you really couldn't switch to another show because it already started. That's a big deal.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I don't like padding unless I know how much to pad. I'd be more pissed if I padded 30 minutes and missed the last half because it was 60 minutes late. And though it's not as big an issue now, with my earlier, smaller DVRs, padding more than needed meant something else I wanted to see got deleted early.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I just don't like having to screw around. The whole point of a DVR is that it knows when the show is on, so you don't have to. Since CBS refuses to cooperate with DVRs on Sunday night, I refuse to cooperate with CBS on Sunday night. No issue there.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I record all three of the shows after 60 minutes and either record the local news after them or pad them individually if I know when the football game ended. No big deal. If I forget, I have CBSAA for Star Trek and that Good Wife spinoff, so I just watch them there.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Madame Secretary is one of the top shows on any day of the week. I also kind of enjoy Wisdom of the Crowd although it's silly: I always like Jeremy Piven. I'm not willing to give up on these shows merely to avoid a bit of extra padding in my DVR, or to try to make a point that no one else knows or cares about.

But, that's me. YMMV of course.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

allan said:


> I don't like padding unless I know how much to pad. I'd be more pissed if I padded 30 minutes and missed the last half because it was 60 minutes late. And though it's not as big an issue now, with my earlier, smaller DVRs, padding more than needed meant something else I wanted to see got deleted early.


I set up a one hour pad on my three shows on Sunday, but usually am home and up and adjust the pad as necessary. One time when I wasn't home CBS went over an hour on football. I was fit to be tied missing the last show of my two to three shows I normally record on CBS as I was out of town at the time.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

brianric said:


> I set up a one hour pad on my three shows on Sunday, but usually am home and up and adjust the pad as necessary. One time when I wasn't home CBS went over an hour on football. I was fit to be tied missing the last show of my two to three shows I normally record on CBS as I was out of town at the time.


If I'm going out of town, I make sure I pad extra. I have an extra pad on hockey games too, but when I know I'm going to be home, I might pad 3 hours to be safe. As someone said, space is no longer an issue and having 5 tuners on my DVR also means that I'm not going to run into a conflict. I figure if something is worth watching, then I'll take an extra 5 minutes and get the recording correct.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

madscientist said:


> I always like Jeremy Piven.


 How did I miss the assault allegations against Piven? It was like two weeks ago! I have no memory of ever hearing about them. They sound pretty bad. Ugh


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

madscientist said:


> How did I miss the assault allegations against Piven? It was like two weeks ago! I have no memory of ever hearing about them. They sound pretty bad. Ugh


I wondered about that when you said you love him. I thought it was an odd time to be saying that.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

On CBS, with just an hour of garbage between football and 60 minutes, I record Wisdom of the Crowd, NCIS:LA normally, and then Madam Secretary with an extra hour. Usually an hour is plenty, but I remember more than once it has been longer than that... due to weather delays, I think, so I bumped the padding to 90 minutes on Madam Sec.

Fox, being more intelligent(!), has two hours of garbage after football before the Simpsons, so I don't need to bother with that.

By garbage, I mean programming the network can dump to keep later shows on schedule. Here, Fox has The OT (post game show) for an hour, then 30 minutes each of local news and Two and a Half Men repeats, before Fox Sunday lineup.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I wondered about that when you said you love him. I thought it was an odd time to be saying that.


 Read about the accusations in an article on Wisdom not getting picked up last night. Maybe I was just really busy/distracted for a day or two and by the time I was paying attention again someone else was in the spotlight. Man, that's a sad situation.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Shows which begin after 11p don't count in the ratings. CBS will drop a shiw


Rob Helmerichs said:


> I just don't like having to screw around. The whole point of a DVR is that it knows when the show is on, so you don't have to. Since CBS refuses to cooperate with DVRs on Sunday night, I refuse to cooperate with CBS on Sunday night. No issue there.


You could blame the NFL for not ending the games on time. You don't see wrestling programming going over.
You could blame TiVo. They get us skip data minutes after a show airs. Why can't they give us the option of accepting push padding. TiVo has almost an hour to send padding. Why won't TiVo allow negative padding. Start recording 10 minutes late and extend recording by the 10 minutes plus a user supplied extra.
You could also blame users too lazy to pad. CBS isn't going to start a show after 11p.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

justen_m said:


> On CBS, with just an hour of garbage between football and 60 minutes, I record Wisdom of the Crowd, NCIS:LA normally, and then Madam Secretary with an extra hour. Usually an hour is plenty, but I remember more than once it has been longer than that... due to weather delays, I think, so I bumped the padding to 90 minutes on Madam Sec.
> 
> Fox, being more intelligent(!), has two hours of garbage after football before the Simpsons, so I don't need to bother with that.
> 
> By garbage, I mean programming the network can dump to keep later shows on schedule. Here, Fox has The OT (post game show) for an hour, then 30 minutes each of local news and Two and a Half Men repeats, before Fox Sunday lineup.


You must live in the Mountain time zone. In the Eastern and Central time zones, there is no programming between The OT and The Simpsons, or between the end of CBS football coverage and 60 Minutes. (On the other hand, in the Pacific time zone, there is three hours on Fox - usually an hour of news and two hours of syndicated programming - and 2 1/2 hours on CBS, where everything always starts on time.)


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Next Week, CBS will need 4 feeds for prime time- one for the early game viewers(on time), one for New York Jets at Denver, one for Washington at Los Angeles Chargers, and one for Tennessee at Arizona. It could get a little crazy trying to track the starting times for _60 Minutes_, because of the 3 4:05 games.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Next Week, CBS will need 4 feeds for prime time- one for the early game viewers(on time), one for New York Jets at Denver, one for Washington at Los Angeles Chargers, and one for Tennessee at Arizona. It could get a little crazy trying to track the starting times for _60 Minutes_, because of the 3 4:05 games.


They're not going to start 60 Minutes at different times. If any of those late games is being aired in the ET/CT and runs past 7 pm ET, they'll push back the start of 60 Minutes for the entire ET/CT until it's over.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> They're not going to start 60 Minutes at different times. If any of those late games is being aired in the ET/CT and runs past 7 pm ET, they'll push back the start of 60 Minutes for the entire ET/CT until it's over.


That's only when it's a CBS doubleheader day. This Sunday is a Fox doubleheader day. The parts of the country that get only a 1:00 game will get 60 Minutes starting at 7:00 Eastern.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> They're not going to start 60 Minutes at different times. If any of those late games is being aired in the ET/CT and runs past 7 pm ET, they'll push back the start of 60 Minutes for the entire ET/CT until it's over.


They started 60 Minutes at different times just yesterday. Baltimore was delayed because they had the Browns/Chargers game. Washington was not because they did not have a late game.

I get both cbs statins and witnessed it.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I've always wondered why do they have 4:05 game sin the first place?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I've always wondered why do they have 4:05 game sin the first place?


I am assuming you are limiting this to the network without the doubleheader that week.

Played in the Eastern and Central time zones? Good question. The one reason I can come up with: so the Giants and Jets don't play games at the same time.

Played in the Mountain and Pacific time zones? Because otherwise the game would start before noon local time, which the NFL does not want to do because of people going to church. It would also be too hard for the NFL to write the schedule so the seven western teams (Raiders, Broncos, Chargers, 49ers, Rams, Seahawks, Cardinals) never play Sunday afternoon home games unless it is on the doubleheader network. Okay, _maybe_ with the new "cross-flexing" rules, they might be able to get away with it...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

The seven western teams already only have home games in the late window, so it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult.



danderson400 said:


> I've always wondered why do they have 4:05 game sin the first place?


As opposed to what? Playing all the games at the same time? Why would the NFL want to do that, when it can spread them out and get more viewers and more ad dollars?


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

It looks like the Rams/Seahawks game might run into “A Christmas Story Live" on FOX in several markets. I wonder if those markets will show it on a delay or JIP?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ooh, class-action lawsuit! They advertised a live show!

(Hey, you gotta admit, it has more merit than most of the class-action lawsuits that get propsoed around here! )


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Delayed in Rams/Seahawks markets.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

trainman said:


> That's only in markets that are getting "bonus coverage," as with that Broncos game that was delayed due to lightning a few weeks ago. Every market got switched to that game once their original game was over, but the ones that hadn't _started_ with it were switched away from it (to a brief "due to NFL rules..." explanation by Curt Menefee, then a commercial break, and then "The Orville" delayed about 40 minutes). Every market that had started with the Broncos game saw it in its entirety, even though it was overlapping the NBC game, and got "The Orville" delayed about 50 minutes.


There was a case last year, when CBS switched to the Dolphins-Bills game because the Jets-Patriots game was a blowout. Because the switch was in the 3rd quarter, i didn't count as "bonus coverage," so it stayed on till it was over, even though it ran past 4:25.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

danderson400 said:


> There was a case last year, when CBS switched to the Dolphins-Bills game because the Jets-Patriots game was a blowout. Because the switch was in the 3rd quarter, i didn't count as "bonus coverage," so it stayed on till it was over, even though it ran past 4:25.


There was a similar case last Saturday, 12/17/2017. I was watching Cincinnati @ Minnesota on CBS, and when the Vikes were up 24 to 0 about halfway through the 3rd quarter, the game switched to the Jets @ NO where the score was 17-13.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I have been keeping an eye on late Simpsons starts for years, and the record for the Eastern/Central time zones for unplanned delays seems to be 90 minutes, but in that instance, it was a repeat. The record for a first-run episode appears to be 42 minutes. Both times, the culprit was a NASCAR rain delay.


I've seen it happen with Cops when Fox had Saturday baseball games, where Fox was required to show a rain delayed game in the two teams markets. However, the rest of the network would get Cops on time.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Sunday's Saints-Vikings game coverage on Fox lasted until 8:30 Eastern. Someone keep an eye out and see if anything got pre-empted out east because of it.

*EDIT:* Apparently Fox aired the entire schedule anyway.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Steveknj said:


> Their customers are exactly why they do this. If their customers stopped watching, you'd see how fast they stop doing that. Their customers eyesballs are watching the shows after the games. More often then when the games aren't there. What they DON'T appearently care about are customers who don't watch football. Looking at the ratings for the NFL (even on a down year like the last two), they are better than the average TV show. It's the perfect lead in to their Sunday night lineup.
> 
> It's ironic that this discussion is happening just about 49 years to the day (well Nov 17th) of the reason why CBS does this. There was a time when the networks would not show the rest of the game and go to their regularly scheduled shows. The most famous time this happened was Nov 17th 1968 on NBC, when they left their NFL game to show Heidi. This caused an outrage among football fans who wanted to see the end of the game and as it turned out the team losing at the time scored 2 TDs in the last minute or so to win the game. But fans couldn't see it because they went to their prime time lineup. So it was the FANS who decided that this is no longer good practice.
> 
> ...


And it's not just_ 60 Minutes_ or _The Simpsons_ that is affected, syndicated shows can get preempted too, if college football runs past 7pm. I tihnk most stations simply let the syndie shows eat the overruns during college football season, and it sometimes happens with NASCAR too.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

This has actually happened the last two weekends on Fox. Last night everything got pushed back 30 minutes. I'm sure some people got upset. Me? I just made sure I padded when I realized the game would run late. If I wasn't watching the games, I'd just take 2 minutes sometime during the week and just pad whatever I watch on Sundays an extra hour to be safe. Since I did watch the game, I padded an extra 30 minutes only, which was perfect.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

I think this was on Facebook-on Bob's Burgers page-someone was complaining that she set her DVR for Bob's Burgers and got the Simpsons instead-um, like for realz-you have to pad! I usually record each Fox show by itself then pad "The Last Man on Earth" by at least 1 hour-


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Regina said:


> I think this was on Facebook-on Bob's Burgers page-someone was complaining that she set her DVR for Bob's Burgers and got the Simpsons instead-um, like for realz-you have to pad! I usually record each Fox show by itself then pad "The Last Man on Earth" by at least 1 hour-


Somebody on the _Family Guy_ Facebook page said the same thing - their FG recording recorded the _Bob's Burgers_ episode.

The only thing that surprised me was, Fox aired the complete lineup, rather than pre-empt, say, _The Last Man on Earth_. I am under the impression that most Fox stations in the Eastern (and Pacific, although this was not affected) time zone are protective of their 10:00 news shows. Then again, given that (a) apparently this was the last Sunday that Fox will be airing new episodes before March 11, although Fox never seemed to have a problem airing new episodes against the Grammys (on 1/28) in the past, and (b) since the next day was a Federal holiday, maybe Fox felt that not too many people had to get up early.

"What do you mean, this is the last Sunday before 3/11 where Fox will air new episodes?"
Here are the next seven Sundays:
1/21 - Fox is airing the NFC Championship Game starting at 6:30 Eastern, followed by the premiere of _The Residen_t (Fox's answer to _Chicago Med / Gray's Anatomy / Code Black_, apparently, although it sounds more like _Black Box / Pure Genius_), which will normally air on Mondays, so the entire Sunday schedule is pre-empted.
1/28 - Fox is airing repeats all night; the only reason I can think of is, it is Grammy night (on CBS), so Fox doesn't want to "waste" new episodes against it.
2/4 - The Super Bowl is on NBC; Fox will not air new episodes against it.
2/11 - The Olympics are on NBC; Fox will not air new episodes against it. (This hasn't been announced officially yet, but the fact that _Bob's Burgers_ aired its Valentine's Day episode on 1/14 - and Fox had to bump a scheduled new episode of _Ghosted_ to air it on that date - leads me to believe that there will be no Sundays between then and 2/14 to air it.)
2/18 - The Olympics are still on NBC.
2/25 - The Olympics Closing Ceremony is on NBC. Even the Oscars won't compete against that. Speaking of which...
3/4 - The Oscars are on ABC; Fox will not air new episodes against it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I don’t remember Fox ever prompting shows on Sunday night because of football overruns. I’ve been padding for years and years.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> I don't remember Fox ever prompting shows on Sunday night because of football overruns. I've been padding for years and years.


I assume you mean pre-empting - and as far as I can tell, this was the first time since at least 2000 that Fox NFL coverage (not counting preseason games) ran until 8:30 Eastern. However, on 5/5/2013, a NASCAR rain delay caused race coverage to end just before 8:30, and a scheduled new episode of _The Cleveland Show_ was pre-empted that night.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> I assume you mean pre-empting - and as far as I can tell, this was the first time since at least 2000 that Fox NFL coverage (not counting preseason games) ran until 8:30 Eastern. However, on 5/5/2013, a NASCAR rain delay caused race coverage to end just before 8:30, and a scheduled new episode of _The Cleveland Show_ was pre-empted that night.


Yes. Autocorrect on iPhone.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> I assume you mean pre-empting - and as far as I can tell, this was the first time since at least 2000 that Fox NFL coverage (not counting preseason games) ran until 8:30 Eastern. However, on 5/5/2013, a NASCAR rain delay caused race coverage to end just before 8:30, and a scheduled new episode of _The Cleveland Show_ was pre-empted that night.


My only quibble with Fox was that given the start time (which I believe was around 4:40 eastern), there was a very good chance this game was going to go past 8PM. Through in that they wanted a decent length post game show, why bother with an 8PM new episode airing in the the first place? Why not schedule a re-run of the Simpsons and then start the rest of their schedule on time? But, given CBS' track record with 60 Minutes when there are NFL overruns, I'd bet the ratings were better than normal, which is why they didn't. And of course, we run into the fact that none of this effects half the country. I'm sure everything started out on time in the Pacific and Mountain TZ.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> My only quibble with Fox was that given the start time (which I believe was around 4:40 eastern), there was a very good chance this game was going to go past 8PM. Through in that they wanted a decent length post game show, why bother with an 8PM new episode airing in the the first place? Why not schedule a re-run of the Simpsons and then start the rest of their schedule on time? But, given CBS' track record with 60 Minutes when there are NFL overruns, I'd bet the ratings were better than normal, which is why they didn't. And of course, we run into the fact that none of this effects half the country. I'm sure everything started out on time in the Pacific and Mountain TZ.


Yes, the entire schedule ran on time in the Mountain and Pacific time zones. That may be one of the reasons Fox didn't pull one of the shows; it didn't have to want to explain why it aired a repeat of a show that had a new episode advertised. (It reminds me of one time where Fox ran a tag saying, "And now, an all-new _King of the Hill_," immediately followed by a repeat inserted because the new episode was pre-empted in the east because, you guessed it, NFL coverage ran long.

As for why, there are a number of reasons. 
First, Fox likes the "overruns" as it inflates the other shows' ratings. 
Second (and this surprised me when I noticed it), football games tend to run faster now; there have been a number of times when all of Fox's 4:25 games ended by 7:30.
Third (although this applies only to this year), Fox is going to have enough trouble airing the usual 22 episodes of _The Simpsons_ as it is without inserting two repeats. As things stand now, Fox either airs 21 episodes, or airs a new episode on Easter Sunday, which it has not done in recent years.

Also note that "half the country" and "half the people in the country" - and, more importantly to Fox, "half the spending money in the country" - are two different things. I once calculated that 80% of the spending money in the USA is in the Eastern and Central time zones.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I’m not so sure Fox likes the overruns. They, unlike cbs, usually schedule enough padding with the OT and reruns to cut parts of the reruns and do their schedule intact. 

This was an unusually late start time.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Somebody on the _Family Guy_ Facebook page said the same thing - their FG recording recorded the _Bob's Burgers_ episode.
> 
> The only thing that surprised me was, Fox aired the complete lineup, rather than pre-empt, say, _The Last Man on Earth_. I am under the impression that most Fox stations in the Eastern (and Pacific, although this was not affected) time zone are protective of their 10:00 news shows. Then again, given that (a) apparently this was the last Sunday that Fox will be airing new episodes before March 11, although Fox never seemed to have a problem airing new episodes against the Grammys (on 1/28) in the past, and (b) since the next day was a Federal holiday, maybe Fox felt that not too many people had to get up early.
> 
> ...


Fox also has NASCAR races on 2/18 and 2/25; if any of those races get delayed by rain, or a major wreck, there's a good chance they'd run over. And with 3 West Coast races after that, there's a good chance that a delay of any sort could mean delays to prime time.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Somebody on the _Family Guy_ Facebook page said the same thing - their FG recording recorded the _Bob's Burgers_ episode.
> 
> The only thing that surprised me was, Fox aired the complete lineup, rather than pre-empt, say, _The Last Man on Earth_. I am under the impression that most Fox stations in the Eastern (and Pacific, although this was not affected) time zone are protective of their 10:00 news shows. Then again, given that (a) apparently this was the last Sunday that Fox will be airing new episodes before March 11, although Fox never seemed to have a problem airing new episodes against the Grammys (on 1/28) in the past, and (b) since the next day was a Federal holiday, maybe Fox felt that not too many people had to get up early.
> 
> ...


I wonder if Fox airing repeats is having to do with Fox having NASCAR races- that way they don't lose much if a repeat is bumped.


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

I thought with NASCAR races they just bump them over to FS1 if they ran over time. I know they have done that in the past.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Michael S said:


> I thought with NASCAR races they just bump them over to FS1 if they ran over time. I know they have done that in the past.


Yep, Fox does have that option, to moving the remainder of the race to FS1. It happened in 2014, but would Fox do it for repeats?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Michael S said:


> I thought with NASCAR races they just bump them over to FS1 if they ran over time. I know they have done that in the past.





danderson400 said:


> Yep, Fox does have that option, to moving the remainder of the race to FS1. It happened in 2014, but would Fox do it for repeats?


I'm glad I'm not a NASCAR fan cause that would really grind my gears (so to speak) as I'm currently OTA only.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Somebody on the _Family Guy_ Facebook page said the same thing - their FG recording recorded the _Bob's Burgers_ episode.
> 
> The only thing that surprised me was, Fox aired the complete lineup, rather than pre-empt, say, _The Last Man on Earth_. I am under the impression that most Fox stations in the Eastern (and Pacific, although this was not affected) time zone are protective of their 10:00 news shows. Then again, given that (a) apparently this was the last Sunday that Fox will be airing new episodes before March 11, although Fox never seemed to have a problem airing new episodes against the Grammys (on 1/28) in the past, and (b) since the next day was a Federal holiday, maybe Fox felt that not too many people had to get up early.
> 
> ...


CBS has a potential problem on 1/28 - they have a PGA Tour event before the Grammys.(they'd likely switch the golf event to the Golf Channel if the event is rain delayed, although they do have a red carpet show that they could preempt.) They aren't even scheduling _60 Minutes _that night.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> CBS has a potential problem on 1/28 - they have a PGA Tour event before the Grammys.(they'd likely switch the golf event to the Golf Channel if the event is rain delayed, although they do have a red carpet show that they could preempt.) They aren't even scheduling _60 Minutes _that night.


They have gone through this before, and the one time they chose programming over golf, they got burned. Of course, back then, they didn't have any cable channels to switch to.

Assuming they don't switch over to Golf Channel or CBS Sports Network at 8 Eastern, there are two options I can see:
1. Show the Grammys in their entirety on a (slightly) tape delayed basis;
2. Have the order of the awards changed so that they start with "minor" awards - certainly, none of the "big four" (record, song, album, new artist) until they're on the air.

Usually, red carpet shows can be written off - I remember an Emmy red carpet show that CBS joined in progress in New York City because a Giants NFL game ran long - but there's a wild card this year; the whole "wearing black" thing. CBS may figure that they're screwed either way, and go with the red carpet at 7 Eastern even if there's a sudden death playoff in progress.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> They have gone through this before, and the one time they chose programming over golf, they got burned. Of course, back then, they didn't have any cable channels to switch to.
> 
> Assuming they don't switch over to Golf Channel or CBS Sports Network at 8 Eastern, there are two options I can see:
> 1. Show the Grammys in their entirety on a (slightly) tape delayed basis;
> ...


I seem to remember NBC joining a Emmy red carpet show in progress once, after a Patriots-Dolphins game in the early to mid-90s, so they could delay the Grammys. But why take that risk for a early season golf event, when they could use the Golf Channel if that happens? Maybe they go with the golf as late as possible, then the Grammys.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

danderson400 said:


> I seem to remember NBC joining a Emmy red carpet show in progress once, after a Patriots-Dolphins game in the early to mid-90s, so they could delay the Grammys. But why take that risk for a early season golf event, when they could use the Golf Channel if that happens? Maybe they go with the golf as late as possible, then the Grammys.


They'll most likely switch to Golf Channel, unless Tiger's in contention. It's his first tournament of the year.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> They'll most likely switch to Golf Channel, unless Tiger's in contention. It's his first tournament of the year.


I would imagine they'd switch to CBS Sports Network or whatever they call it. NBC (Comcast), I believe, owns The Golf Channel.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> I would imagine they'd switch to CBS Sports Network or whatever they call it. NBC (Comcast), I believe, owns The Golf Channel.


Golf Channel has the first two rounds on Thursday and Friday. They also have the re-air of the third and fourth rounds even though they're originally on CBS.

CBSSN will be in the middle of a basketball game when the switch would have to take place. Golf Channel is wide open at that time.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> Golf Channel has the first two rounds on Thursday and Friday. They also have the re-air of the third and fourth rounds even though they're originally on CBS.
> 
> CBSSN will be in the middle of a basketball game when the switch would have to take place. Golf Channel is wide open at that time.


It could be that Comcast bought the rights to the first two rounds which they frequently do. It could be that they bought the overruns as well? Who knows. They could put the overruns on MTV?  (Yeah, I know, different companies...owned by the same person LOL)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I wonder if Fox airing repeats is having to do with Fox having NASCAR races- that way they don't lose much if a repeat is bumped.


NASCAR doesn't hold its first race of the season until Feb. 18. And then they likely wouldn't put new episodes up against the Olympics closing ceremonies or the Oscars anyway. So NASCAR has nothing to do with it.


lpwcomp said:


> I'm glad I'm not a NASCAR fan cause that would really grind my gears (so to speak) as I'm currently OTA only.


Fewer than half of the NASCAR Cup races are on OTA broadcast anymore. FOX airs 10 and puts 7 on FS1 (including the All-Star Race). NBC airs 7 and puts 13 on NBCSN.


That Don Guy said:


> They have gone through this before, and the one time they chose programming over golf, they got burned. Of course, back then, they didn't have any cable channels to switch to.
> 
> Assuming they don't switch over to Golf Channel or CBS Sports Network at 8 Eastern, there are two options I can see:
> 1. Show the Grammys in their entirety on a (slightly) tape delayed basis;
> ...


The problem is that nobody watches the Grammy's for the awards. They watch for the live music performances. And CBS has been advertising for over a month naming a bunch of acts and then saying, "And those are only the ones in the first hour!" So I don't think there's any way they'll air golf over the top of the Grammy's after all of that promotion.

They've got a one-hour red-carpet show and I think they'll use that as a buffer if necessary. But the PGA tourneys are usually done by that time on Sundays unless there's a tie forcing extra holes.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> The problem is that nobody watches the Grammy's for the awards. They watch for the live music performances. And CBS has been advertising for over a month naming a bunch of acts and then saying, "And those are only the ones in the first hour!" So I don't think there's any way they'll air golf over the top of the Grammy's after all of that promotion.
> 
> They've got a one-hour red-carpet show and I think they'll use that as a buffer if necessary. But the PGA tourneys are usually done by that time on Sundays unless there's a tie forcing extra holes.


They're over long before regular programming starts, unless (a) there's a playoff, which has an added delay as the golfers have to get to the first playoff hole, or (b) there's a rain delay, but if that happens, CBS has incentive to move the final hour or so to, say, Golf Channel.

Another thing that needs to be considered; darkness. The sun is supposed to set just after 8 PM Eastern in San Diego; if it gets close to 8, CBS could "suggest" that it is too dark to continue, and they finish the playoff on Monday.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> They're over long before regular programming starts, unless (a) there's a playoff, which has an added delay as the golfers have to get to the first playoff hole, or (b) there's a rain delay, but if that happens, CBS has incentive to move the final hour or so to, say, Golf Channel.
> 
> Another thing that needs to be considered; darkness. The sun is supposed to set just after 8 PM Eastern in San Diego; if it gets close to 8, CBS could "suggest" that it is too dark to continue, and they finish the playoff on Monday.


The Grammys start at 5:30 PT. They will be close to over by the time it gets dark at Torrey Pines.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Darkness should definitely not be an issue. However, there is also a 1/2 hour CBS news show scheduled for 6:30PM EST so they actually have 1.5 hours of "buffer".


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> The Grammys start at 5:30 PT. They will be close to over by the time it gets dark at Torrey Pines.


4:30 PT



lpwcomp said:


> Darkness should definitely not be an issue. However, there is also a 1/2 hour CBS news show scheduled for 6:30PM EST so they actually have 1.5 hours of "buffer".


No news scheduled here

2:00 - 5:30 Golf
5:30 - 6:30 Red carpet
6:30 - 10:00 Grammys


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> 4:30 PT


You're right. I was looking at my TiVo guide and forgot that during these few months of the year, we're not on the same time as California.

I also didn't notice that TDG's post said the sunset was just after 8 pm EASTERN, which would be 5 pm PT. So I was also wrong in saying that the Grammy's would be nearly over before it was dark at Torrey Pines.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> 4:30 PT
> 
> No news scheduled here
> 
> ...


Appears we in the ATL are victims of yet another TiVo schedule data screw-up.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Somebody on the _Family Guy_ Facebook page said the same thing - their FG recording recorded the _Bob's Burgers_ episode.
> 
> The only thing that surprised me was, Fox aired the complete lineup, rather than pre-empt, say, _The Last Man on Earth_. I am under the impression that most Fox stations in the Eastern (and Pacific, although this was not affected) time zone are protective of their 10:00 news shows. Then again, given that (a) apparently this was the last Sunday that Fox will be airing new episodes before March 11, although Fox never seemed to have a problem airing new episodes against the Grammys (on 1/28) in the past, and (b) since the next day was a Federal holiday, maybe Fox felt that not too many people had to get up early.
> 
> ...


For the most part, most Fox stations in the Eastern time zone are protective of their 10:00 news shows. expect for things like the World Series, NFL Playoff games, and the Coca-Cola 600 NASCAR race(since it starts at 6:20 PM, it's a good bet that the late news will be delayed, and last year there was a lightning delay added to the mix, causing he news to start after 12:30 AM.)


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I have been keeping an eye on late Simpsons starts for years, and the record for the Eastern/Central time zones for unplanned delays seems to be 90 minutes, but in that instance, it was a repeat. The record for a first-run episode appears to be 42 minutes. Both times, the culprit was a NASCAR rain delay.


I think that ABC has delayed their Sunday night shows for the Indy 500, at least once, but the shows aired in their entirety.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I think that ABC has delayed their Sunday night shows for the Indy 500, at least once, but the shows aired in their entirety.


I kind of doubt that. The green flag is usually just after noon and the track doesn't have lights, so it would be unlikely that the race would last that long. In addition, the race usually lasts around 3 hours, and the longest rain delay on record is about 3 hours, so that would still get the race finished not much later than 6 pm Central.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Fox actually had the rain issue come up for the Atlanta race, but they kept it on the broadcast network.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm surprised nobody was here complaining about CBS last night. I expected it and have my CBS shows that I watch padded, but last night was utterly ridiculous. I don't normally watch NCAA basketball, but I had it on to see how much I had to pad my shows, knowing that the first two weeks of the NCAA tourney frequently has overruns. This one was no exception. And while I expect it and it doesn't really bother me too much (and I know exactly why they do it), this time, it really annoyed me. The game ended around 7:25 or so Eastern. Then they cut away to commercials. So I'd say there were 2 to 3 minutes worth of commercials. They come back to the studio, talk for a few second (maybe a minute or so, tops), and end the broadcast. Then, another 3 minutes of commercials. But that's not all, now a bumper for the upcoming shows...and they go to 3 minutes of LOCAL commercials, before they FINALLY start 60 Minutes. So that was about 10 minutes worth of almost non-stop commercials with about a minute or so of a break between them. I had to adjust my pad for another 30 minutes (as the jump is 30 minutes or an hour, nothing in between). That's an unreasonable amount of commercials. And I think for those who might normally not watch 60 Minutes they might actually go watch something else. (I ended up watching it live last night, which I'm sure is what they hope happens here).


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

It seemed that shows were running about 37 minutes late. I missed the second two thirds of Instinct because I don't record the show after it and by the time I checked I'd missed it. At least I didn't miss any of Madame Secretary.

Based on what I saw of Instinct I'm not sure I'll bother trying to find the rest. I really like Alan Cumming (we saw his show in Boston last fall and it was a lot of fun) but can't explain why they want him to do an American accent here. He doesn't do too badly in general but what's the point?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

madscientist said:


> It seemed that shows were running about 37 minutes late. I missed the second two thirds of Instinct because I don't record the show after it and by the time I checked I'd missed it. At least I didn't miss any of Madame Secretary.
> 
> Based on what I saw of Instinct I'm not sure I'll bother trying to find the rest. I really like Alan Cumming (we saw his show in Boston last fall and it was a lot of fun) but can't explain why they want him to do an American accent here. He doesn't do too badly in general but what's the point?


He did an American Accent on The Good Wife as well. Didn't watch that show as it just seems like another CBS procedural with a different spin.

Thirty-seven minutes late is about right. As I said, game ended a little before 7:30 Eastern and they just piled on tons of commercials.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I'm surprised nobody was here complaining about CBS last night. I expected it and have my CBS shows that I watch padded, but last night was utterly ridiculous. I don't normally watch NCAA basketball, but I had it on to see how much I had to pad my shows, knowing that the first two weeks of the NCAA tourney frequently has overruns. This one was no exception. And while I expect it and it doesn't really bother me too much (and I know exactly why they do it), this time, it really annoyed me. The game ended around 7:25 or so Eastern. Then they cut away to commercials. So I'd say there were 2 to 3 minutes worth of commercials. They come back to the studio, talk for a few second (maybe a minute or so, tops), and end the broadcast. Then, another 3 minutes of commercials. But that's not all, now a bumper for the upcoming shows...and they go to 3 minutes of LOCAL commercials, before they FINALLY start 60 Minutes. So that was about 10 minutes worth of almost non-stop commercials with about a minute or so of a break between them. I had to adjust my pad for another 30 minutes (as the jump is 30 minutes or an hour, nothing in between). That's an unreasonable amount of commercials. And I think for those who might normally not watch 60 Minutes they might actually go watch something else. (I ended up watching it live last night, which I'm sure is what they hope happens here).


I'm tired of complaining. Like you I waited to see how long to pad 60 Minutes. NCIS LA, Madam Secretary and Instinct. I'm debating cancelling my 1 Pass on all my Sunday CBS shows. I'm tired of this CBS crap.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

brianric said:


> I'm tired of complaining. Like you I waited to see how long to pad 60 Minutes. NCIS LA, Madam Secretary and Instinct. I'm debating cancelling my 1 Pass on all my Sunday CBS shows. I'm tired of this CBS crap.


I don't let it bother me. If I like something, I figure out a way (assuming I'm home to do it). I have a 30 minute pad built into the two shows I watch (60 Minutes and Madame Sec'y) and that normally works. But I know from past experience that for the NFL and the NCAA Tournament that sometimes isn't enough. It's always especially bad for the NCAA, and since it happens EVERY YEAR, I don't know why they just don't move everything back, like the do for the NFL. What annoyed me was the commercials. Why they had about 1 minute of content (of which half was a bumper for what's coming next), and then 10 minutes of commercials is utterly insane. I guess they have to pay for the content somehow. But running that many commercials in a row is just bad. It reminds me of watching Friends on Nick at Night or TVLand. Notice the schedule for those shows runs 35 minutes for a normally 30 minute show. IT's because there's regularly 5 or 6 minute commercial breaks. I've completely stopped watching any classic shows on those networks because I don't have the patience. (And yeah, there are other ways...but sometimes I'm just flipping around, especially when I'm in bed and sleepy that I just watch live stuff like that).


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

I had a season pass for Instinct. CBS idiocy caused me to miss the Pilot episode as it was not broadcast at the advanced advertised time. I don't see anything that would allow me to watch it. I don't want to start following this show without seeing the pilot. Also CBS is likely to repeatedly delay the show making it impossible to get full episodes. I guess I may as well cancel my One - Pass.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

wtherrell said:


> I had a season pass for Instinct. CBS idiocy caused me to miss the Pilot episode as it was not broadcast at the advanced advertised time. I don't see anything that would allow me to watch it. I don't want to start following this show without seeing the pilot. Also CBS is likely to repeatedly delay the show making it impossible to get full episodes. I guess I may as well cancel my One - Pass.


Must have been your geo. area? In mine, it played at the scheduled time, I believe.

But fret not: it's available right now (for free) at CBS' website (with commercials, but not too long).

Watch Instinct Season 1 Episode 1: Pilot - Full show on CBS All Access


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Fox actually had the rain issue come up for the Atlanta race, but they kept it on the broadcast network.


Since that night was also the Olympics Closing Ceremony, Fox had scheduled repeats for the entire night, so it had nothing to lose by keeping the race broadcast on Fox.

There have been times when a Sunday race that had a rain delay resulted in Fox airing scheduled new episodes of one or more of its Sunday shows during the delay. In one instance, this turned out to be bad for San Francisco area viewers, as the local Fox station, having already aired the episode at around 6:30, aired a local show instead of the second airing at the scheduled 8:00 Pacific broadcast time.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Must have been your geo. area? In mine, it played at the scheduled time, I believe.
> 
> But fret not: it's available right now (for free) at CBS' website (with commercials, but not too long).
> 
> Watch Instinct Season 1 Episode 1: Pilot - Full show on CBS All Access


And I get that on my Tivo, how?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

wtherrell said:


> And I get that on my Tivo, how?


Well, you take 45 minutes off from TCF and watch it on your computer. 

Or, if your computer and TV have the functionality/connection (e.g. networked together wirelessly or via Ethernet, or with a connection possible via HDMI cable), you also could beam/transfer the running show from your computer or tablet to your TV. Or just call the show up directly on your TV, if your TV has an Internet connection and Internet browser.

Just a way to get you where you ultimately want to be.
​


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Well, you take 45 minutes off from TCF and watch it on your computer.
> 
> Or, if your computer and TV have the functionality/connection (e.g. networked together wirelessly or via Ethernet, or with a connection possible via HDMI cable), you also could beam/transfer the running show from your computer or tablet to your TV. Or just call the show up directly on your TV, if your TV has an Internet connection and Internet browser.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Got it thru Roku and the Spectrum app.
But, I had to wait through all those commercials - - - lame. Ugh. I had forgotten how stupid.
Right now. Today you have more power at your fingertips than... Previous generations.......
OK, with all that power, I still can't get rid of this nerve scraping Microsoft stuff? Sorry about the rant. Back to my warm, fuzzy Tivo.


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

Steveknj said:


> I'm surprised nobody was here complaining about CBS last night. I expected it and have my CBS shows that I watch padded, but last night was utterly ridiculous. I don't normally watch NCAA basketball, but I had it on to see how much I had to pad my shows, knowing that the first two weeks of the NCAA tourney frequently has overruns. (snip)


I don't normally watch any sports, so it took me a couple of weeks during football season to remember that I had to pad NCIS:LA. Once again, I lost over half of the latest episode of that show thanks to a sporting event I don't watch and am barely aware of. I'll probably forget next week, too.



brianric said:


> I'm tired of complaining. Like you I waited to see how long to pad 60 Minutes. NCIS LA, Madam Secretary and Instinct. I'm debating cancelling my 1 Pass on all my Sunday CBS shows. I'm tired of this CBS crap.


Amen. What's the point of having a scheduled recording if I have to do a manual override on random occasions?


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Since that night was also the Olympics Closing Ceremony, Fox had scheduled repeats for the entire night, so it had nothing to lose by keeping the race broadcast on Fox.
> 
> There have been times when a Sunday race that had a rain delay resulted in Fox airing scheduled new episodes of one or more of its Sunday shows during the delay. In one instance, this turned out to be bad for San Francisco area viewers, as the local Fox station, having already aired the episode at around 6:30, aired a local show instead of the second airing at the scheduled 8:00 Pacific broadcast time.


And with the rain this afternoon, they've had to move the Truck race to after the Cup race. Good thing it's on FS1...


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

FOX shouldn't have any issues this week as the O’Reilly Auto Parts 500 is on FS1. But next week, the Food City 500 is on FOX- and if it's delayed by rain or a big wreck, it could cause a delay in prime time. CBS has the Masters, so a delay is possible.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I notice that for NASCAR, FS1 seems to have the later starting races. expect for the Coca-Cola 600.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> FOX shouldn't have any issues this week as the O'Reilly Auto Parts 500 is on FS1. But next week, the Food City 500 is on FOX- and if it's delayed by rain or a big wreck, it could cause a delay in prime time. CBS has the Masters, so a delay is possible.


The Masters is always one of those events that in advance of I pad all my CBS shows for the night. It's also one of those events that gets me angry every time it runs over when they have that pretentious old lout (straight out of 1950s Georgia) give the winner the green jacket. It always feels they are wasting my time and they should go to their scheduled show.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> The Masters is always one of those events that in advance of I pad all my CBS shows for the night. It's also one of those events that gets me angry every time it runs over when they have that pretentious old lout (straight out of 1950s Georgia) give the winner the green jacket. It always feels they are wasting my time and they should go to their scheduled show.


Boo! HISS!


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> FOX shouldn't have any issues this week as the O'Reilly Auto Parts 500 is on FS1. But next week, the Food City 500 is on FOX- and if it's delayed by rain or a big wreck, it could cause a delay in prime time. CBS has the Masters, so a delay is possible.


Fox has had to do enough shuffling of its Sunday schedule thanks to that O.J. Simpson interview in March on top of not programming against the Olympics, the Oscars, the Super Bowl, or the Grammys. It doesn't have any more leeway with its schedule; in fact, _The Simpsons_ will probably end the season one episode short. I have a feeling that, if the race is still on at 7 Eastern, Fox will decide if it thinks the race will end in time so the entire Sunday schedule, not counting the repeat at 7, can air, and if not, it will switch over to FS1 by 7:30.



Steveknj said:


> The Masters is always one of those events that in advance of I pad all my CBS shows for the night. It's also one of those events that gets me angry every time it runs over when they have that pretentious old lout (straight out of 1950s Georgia) give the winner the green jacket. It always feels they are wasting my time and they should go to their scheduled show.


At least it hasn't switched to a 4-hole playoff like the PGA or (British) Open Championship...yet.

However, they're not about to get rid of the green jacket ceremony, any more than they would get rid of "One Shining Moment" at the end of the NCAA men's college basketball tournament. Besides, traditionally the defending champion puts the jacket on the new champion, and you know they'll ask Sergio about putting five straight shots into the water on the same hole...


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

And there is a good chance that they might have to bump a show if the 3rd round gets washed out before completion Saturday, or at worst there is a delay long enough that they need to go until darkness.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Turns out, for the first time I can remember, The Masters ended about 6:35, so everything on CBS went off on time. I had pre-padded everything earlier in the day anticipating that it might run over. All it takes is about 5 minutes of planning. And it turned out if Read had missed the putt on 18, there would have been a playoff and screwed up everything.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Fox might have to make such a decision this week- the weather for Sunday's race is for thunderstorms. Of course, Fox may elect to move the race to FS1 if they can race at night.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

My Fox affiliate has a movie schedule from 11 to 1, but obviously they'll need to change that for the pre-race show?


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

In my experience, _60 Minutes _has always started from the beginning after football, but that other shows were preempted(if it was a syndicated show), expect for the news, which started after MNF. The news and_ Nightline_ would be delayed depending on when the game ended.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I'd say that most CBS stations show the full lineup after football, including late night syndicated fare, since the network has an overnight news feed.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

If the golf runs past 7pm, then NBC's shows will air in their entirety. So pad accordingly.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> If the golf runs past 7pm, then NBC's shows will air in their entirety. So pad accordingly.


I added an extra 15 minutes to Timeless. I hope that was enough.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

There is a reason that the networks will delay prime time until all games are finished- the likelihood that a few markets could be behind the rest of the east coast. Back in 2000, Fox had an unusual occurrence of 5 late games, due to CBS having the US Open Tennis finals, and 3 of those games were NFC teams visiting AFC teams. So a movie had to be delayed because the Saints-Chargers game ran past 7:30, if i remember.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> There is a reason that the networks will delay prime time until all games are finished- the likelihood that a few markets could be behind the rest of the east coast. Back in 2000, Fox had an unusual occurrence of 5 late games, due to CBS having the US Open Tennis finals, and 3 of those games were NFC teams visiting AFC teams. So a movie had to be delayed because the Saints-Chargers game ran past 7:30, if i remember.


It ran over a bit again this Sunday due to PGA Golf, I just padded Big Brother an extra half hour and it was fine. I think the main reason why is money. An ad on a NFL game has to give CBS more money than an ad on 60 minutes. Plus if they run their full schedule after, then all regions will have run the same schedule in the entire country so that E2 of Madam Secretary would be shown all over the country rather than only on the West Coast. CBS then gets ad money for everywhere. Plus as mentioned numerous times, ratings spike on weeks where there's overruns because those who watch live (and remember those are still primarily what ratings on based on) are kinda stuck on CBS if they watched the game for the night.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

The other thing- the longer the overrun, the higher the ratings they will get.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I have CBS All Access, and whenever some sports thing goes over and I don't catch it for my recordings, I just stream the shows that were affected. It's nice, but more money spent and all. I'm sure CBS works the people like me into their equation.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Howie said:


> I have CBS All Access, and whenever some sports thing goes over and I don't catch it for my recordings, I just stream the shows that were affected. It's nice, but more money spent and all. I'm sure CBS works the people like me into their equation.


I'm sure CBS is perfectly fine with you doing that  If they don't get your money one place, they'll get it from another.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

NBC used to have a lot of late games in week 1 when CBS had US Open Tennis- in 1989 alone, they had 7 late games- Seattle at Philadelphia, Houston at Minnesota, Buffalo at Miami, New England at New York Jets, Kansas City at Denver, San Diego at Los Angeles Raiders and Cleveland at Pittsburgh. So there must have been extra prime time feeds for that week. These days there is no more than 4 games at most but in week 17 last year, CBS had 5 late games.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Fox may have to delay prime tonight, if the Titans-Dolphins game is still underway at 8:00.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Nothing on there I want to watch anyway. I'm not a cartoon guy.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Fox accidentally cut off the Dolphins-Titans game for a moment or two, i wonder what was wrong with that?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Big Brother was delayed 18min. So missed out on the nominations. I wish DVRs were smarter. Record when it actually airs and not the time assigned.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Fox may have to delay prime tonight, if the Titans-Dolphins game is still underway at 8:00.
> 
> 
> Howie said:
> ...


Ended on time, or close enough.

And actually, Fox had a scripted non-animated sitcom on tonight. Rel, starring Lil Rel Howery. He's pretty funny, first saw him on The Carmichael Show on NBC the last couple seasons.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> Big Brother was delayed 18min. So missed out on the nominations. I wish DVRs were smarter. Record when it actually airs and not the time assigned.


Good chance overrun next week, especially on east coast, as BB will be 30 minutes later without an overrun.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Here are the "overrun networks" for the rest of the regular season (although Fox doesn't program the 7-8 Eastern time slot on its days, so it's not really a problem):
9/16 - CBS
9/23 - Fox
9/30 - CBS
10/7 - Fox
10/14, 10/21 - CBS
10/28, 11/4 - Fox (note Fox is airing World Series Game 5 "if necessary" on 10/28)
11/11 - CBS
11/18 - Fox
11/25 - CBS
12/2, 12/9 - Fox
12/16, 12/23 - CBS
12/30 - both Fox and CBS (that way, each network gets 9 doubleheaders)


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Fox left the Dolphins-Titans game at 7PM CDT with a few minutes left and went to regular programming. The telecast had over four hours of delays because someone reported lightning eight miles away. Total game time was over seven hours.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Jon J said:


> Fox left the Dolphins-Titans game at 7PM CDT with a few minutes left and went to regular programming. The telecast had over four hours of delays because someone reported lightning eight miles away. Total game time was over seven hours.


I'm not 100% sure about this, and this might be mentioned earlier in this thread, but I _think_ there's a rule that says CBS and Fox have to end their coverage when the NBC game is about to start.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> I'm not 100% sure about this, and this might be mentioned earlier in this thread, but I _think_ there's a rule that says CBS and Fox have to end their coverage when the NBC game is about to start.


That rule doesn't affect home markets in a delay situation -- it was apparently a Fox master control error that caused them to cut away from the Dolphins-Titans game.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I do remember one time there was an exception to the rule that - for the Emmys. I'd say if that was the case, then the NBC game wouldn't start till Fox's game is over.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I'm not 100% sure about this, and this might be mentioned earlier in this thread, but I _think_ there's a rule that says CBS and Fox have to end their coverage when the NBC game is about to start.


Only for "bonus coverage"- last year, we stayed with Cowboys- Broncos until the end- and it was delayed. Of course, it was our assigned game.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

danderson400 said:


> Only for "bonus coverage"- last year, we stayed with Cowboys- Broncos until the end- and it was delayed. Of course, it was our assigned game.


Fox flipped the switch to net programming in Nashville.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

trainman said:


> That rule doesn't affect home markets in a delay situation -- it was apparently a Fox master control error that caused them to cut away from the Dolphins-Titans game.


I'd say so because i don't think Fox would intentionally leave a local teams game for regular programming.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I'm not 100% sure about this, and this might be mentioned earlier in this thread, but I _think_ there's a rule that says CBS and Fox have to end their coverage when the NBC game is about to start.


Doesn't the NFL have the option to delay the NBC game if needed?


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

trainman said:


> That's only in markets that are getting "bonus coverage," as with that Broncos game that was delayed due to lightning a few weeks ago. Every market got switched to that game once their original game was over, but the ones that hadn't _started_ with it were switched away from it (to a brief "due to NFL rules..." explanation by Curt Menefee, then a commercial break, and then "The Orville" delayed about 40 minutes). Every market that had started with the Broncos game saw it in its entirety, even though it was overlapping the NBC game, and got "The Orville" delayed about 50 minutes.


And it would be only a rare event- usually, most games are done by 7:30 anyway. But if it's a game like the Titans-Dolphins game this year, or the Cowboys-Broncos game last year, it could happen. Like you said, it would be only in markets that are getting "bonus coverage," but with OT being 10 minutes, the likelihood of that happening is slim to none.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

_The Simpsons_ could be delayed tonight if the Cleveland @ Oakland games is still in progress at 8:00...


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Would it be funny if the Browns-Raiders game ended in a tie and delayed the Simpsons?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Another stupid NFL / network rule. Bengals - Falcons game, Bengals driving, 11 seconds to go. I'm in the NY market so by rule they have to cut away from the game to give us the Giants game. But do they cut to the Giants game? No, they cut to a series of commercials!! Bengals score (apparently...I didn't see it because...you know). If they had cut to the game, I would have been fine with it, I suppose, but, they cut to ADS!! Really NFL, let us see the LAST PLAY!! There was only time for that one play. 

And the kicker? During the game Romo mentions that they have been going commercial free because the other affiliates that were joining the game in progress had not joined. So almost the whole 1st Quarter was ad free. The rules are really weird!!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Another stupid NFL / network rule. Bengals - Falcons game, Bengals driving, 11 seconds to go. I'm in the NY market so by rule they have to cut away from the game to give us the Giants game. But do they cut to the Giants game? No, they cut to a series of commercials!! Bengals score (apparently...I didn't see it because...you know). If they had cut to the game, I would have been fine with it, I suppose, but, they cut to ADS!! Really NFL, let us see the LAST PLAY!! There was only time for that one play.
> 
> And the kicker? During the game Romo mentions that they have been going commercial free because the other affiliates that were joining the game in progress had not joined. So almost the whole 1st Quarter was ad free. The rules are really weird!!


Yeah..

After the Cowboys game was over, Fox went to the Philly/Titans game. Which went to overtime. But at some point, they had to cut away. Not to go to some other game. But to go back to a studio show. No double header on Fox for me yesterday. But that was lame. Of course, during the studio show that was filling out the time slot, the Titans won in OT. Could not see it live. Had to see the highlights on the studio show.

I really hate this rule..


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Also, on red zone they had to cut off the OT because they can’t be on versus nbc pregame. Not even kickoff yet.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

WEhat i don't understand is why the commercials had to run, surely the ads could have waited?


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

While you might be mad, they have to go to the commercials in order to switch the signals in the home markets, because otherwise markets might get the wrong game.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Steveknj said:


> Another stupid NFL / network rule. Bengals - Falcons game, Bengals driving, 11 seconds to go. I'm in the NY market so by rule they have to cut away from the game to give us the Giants game. But do they cut to the Giants game? No, they cut to a series of commercials!! Bengals score (apparently...I didn't see it because...you know). If they had cut to the game, I would have been fine with it, I suppose, but, they cut to ADS!! Really NFL, let us see the LAST PLAY!! There was only time for that one play.
> 
> And the kicker? During the game Romo mentions that they have been going commercial free because the other affiliates that were joining the game in progress had not joined. So almost the whole 1st Quarter was ad free. The rules are really weird!!


I had the Bengals-Falcons game till it ended, then it switched to the Texans-Colts game, so i missed the first quarter of Saints-Giants.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> While you might be mad, they have to go to the commercials in order to switch the signals in the home markets, because otherwise markets might get the wrong game.


That doesn't make any sense. They switch signals like that all the time. More likely they sell ad time between the two games and they have to show that. And that's something that can be avoided in the future.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

jsmeeker said:


> Yeah..
> 
> After the Cowboys game was over, Fox went to the Philly/Titans game. Which went to overtime. But at some point, they had to cut away. Not to go to some other game. But to go back to a studio show. No double header on Fox for me yesterday. But that was lame. Of course, during the studio show that was filling out the time slot, the Titans won in OT. Could not see it live. Had to see the highlights on the studio show.
> 
> I really hate this rule..


Blame the NFL. The network that has the singleheader (in this past weeks case FOX) can only show a game past 3:25 Central if you got the game to being with. Bonus coverage doesnt count.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> Another stupid NFL / network rule. Bengals - Falcons game, Bengals driving, 11 seconds to go. I'm in the NY market so by rule they have to cut away from the game to give us the Giants game. But do they cut to the Giants game? No, they cut to a series of commercials!! Bengals score (apparently...I didn't see it because...you know). If they had cut to the game, I would have been fine with it, I suppose, but, they cut to ADS!! Really NFL, let us see the LAST PLAY!! There was only time for that one play.


CBS has to cue up the late game to the affiliates carrying it so they give a 2 minute buffer of commercials.



> And the kicker? During the game Romo mentions that they have been going commercial free because the other affiliates that were joining the game in progress had not joined. So almost the whole 1st Quarter was ad free. The rules are really weird!!


CBS & FOX have their own rules when it comes to the late game if in bonus coverage
CBS will continue to show it before moving us to the late game (exception is the local markets of the teams playing the late game)
FOX uses the "due to NFL rules" BS line and dumps us to the late game. They did it two weeks ago


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

unclehonkey said:


> CBS has to cue up the late game to the affiliates carrying it so they give a 2 minute buffer of commercials.
> 
> CBS & FOX have their own rules when it comes to the late game if in bonus coverage
> CBS will continue to show it before moving us to the late game (exception is the local markets of the teams playing the late game)
> FOX uses the "due to NFL rules" BS line and dumps us to the late game. They did it two weeks ago


I don't mind them dumping us to the other game. I'm a Giants fan and I want to see the Giants game in my local market. My issue was that they DIDN'T dump us to the game, they dumped us to 2 minutes worth of commercials and THEN the game. Why not just stay with the game and skip the commercials and go directly the Giants game? Then give us the commercials during the game rather than those front loaded ones? And, as it turned out, because the WHOLE audience didn't join the national game, they showed NO commercials DURING the game until the whole national audience joined.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> I don't mind them dumping us to the other game. I'm a Giants fan and I want to see the Giants game in my local market. My issue was that they DIDN'T dump us to the game, they dumped us to 2 minutes worth of commercials and THEN the game. Why not just stay with the game and skip the commercials and go directly the Giants game? Then give us the commercials during the game rather than those front loaded ones? And, as it turned out, because the WHOLE audience didn't join the national game, they showed NO commercials DURING the game until the whole national audience joined.


CBS does that. They do it to cue up the late game.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

unclehonkey said:


> Blame the NFL. The network that has the singleheader (in this past weeks case FOX) can only show a game past 3:25 Central if you got the game to being with. Bonus coverage doesnt count.


yes. That's where my ire is directed. The game was actually done before the end of the studio show. 
Lame.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I don't mind them dumping us to the other game. I'm a Giants fan and I want to see the Giants game in my local market. My issue was that they DIDN'T dump us to the game, they dumped us to 2 minutes worth of commercials and THEN the game. Why not just stay with the game and skip the commercials and go directly the Giants game? Then give us the commercials during the game rather than those front loaded ones? And, as it turned out, because the WHOLE audience didn't join the national game, they showed NO commercials DURING the game until the whole national audience joined.


Did you notice whether the commercials you got during that block were national or local? If they were national, they were probably the ads that the network still owed to advertisers for the game that had just completed. If they were local, they were probably the ads that the local affiliates had been promised would run at the conclusion of the game. I'm guessing it was a combination of both. All of these ad slots are sold and under contract. Neither the network nor the affiliate can just skip airing these spots that they've already sold.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> CBS has to cue up the late game to the affiliates carrying it so they give a 2 minute buffer of commercials.
> 
> CBS & FOX have their own rules when it comes to the late game if in bonus coverage
> CBS will continue to show it before moving us to the late game (exception is the local markets of the teams playing the late game)
> FOX uses the "due to NFL rules" BS line and dumps us to the late game. They did it two weeks ago


My Fox station had the Saints-Falcons game, and it went to overtime. So i missed almost all of the 1st quarter of the Cowboys-Seahawks game. Shouldn't have Fox stayed with that game until it was over, then join the Cowboys-Seahawks game in progress everywhere but the local markets?


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> My Fox station had the Saints-Falcons game, and it went to overtime. So i missed almost all of the 1st quarter of the Cowboys-Seahawks game. Shouldn't have Fox stayed with that game until it was over, then join the Cowboys-Seahawks game in progress everywhere but the local markets?


no
If you had the game from the getgo...you keep the game until conclusion then get the late game
If you got it as "bonus coverage" then FOX dumped you out to the late game on time

CBS and FOX apparently have different rules on bonus coverage.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I believe the NFL rules prohibit other NFL games from being shown on local television stations while a local team is playing a sold out, locally televised home game (it can be canceled out, if the New York, Bay Area, or Los Angeles market teams are playing at the same time). While the rules are designed to encourage ticket-holders to show up at the stadium, that is canceled out if the other team is playing on the road.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I believe the NFL rules prohibit other NFL games from being shown on local television stations while a local team is playing a sold out, locally televised home game (it can be canceled out, if the New York, Bay Area, or Los Angeles market teams are playing at the same time). While the rules are designed to encourage ticket-holders to show up at the stadium, that is canceled out if the other team is playing on the road.


It didn't have to be sold out, although this is irrelevant now that the blackout rule has been removed. The one exception was, if the game was blacked out and it was the only game on at that time on that network.

Example: it's a Fox doubleheader day, but the only 4:05 game on CBS is a Raiders home game which is blacked out. San Francisco's CBS station can't show another 4:05 game as there aren't any, so it airs a 1:00 game, and the Fox station airs a 4:25 game even though the Raiders were playing a home game at the same time.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

This is easy to see on the 506Sports.com weekly maps. This is a Fox doubleheader week, and the five CBS games in the early slot are taking place in Kansas City, Cincinnati, Buffalo, Cleveland, and New York (Jets). And look which markets are grayed out on this map to show that they're not getting a Fox early game. (The Giants are playing at the same time as the Jets, so New York does get a Fox early game.)


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

yup. And next week is the old "Minneapolis gives the NFL the finger" map 
(due to the structure of the Minneapolis market when the market lose a DH game it looks like the middle finger)


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I believe the NFL rules prohibit other NFL games from being shown on local television stations while a local team is playing a sold out, locally televised home game (it can be canceled out, if the New York, Bay Area, or Los Angeles market teams are playing at the same time). While the rules are designed to encourage ticket-holders to show up at the stadium, that is canceled out if the other team is playing on the road.


lets make it simple...primary markets only (the market of said team) with the exception of LA, NY & Bay Area

Home game? Thats it. No other game can go against it
Road game? Game can be shown opposite it
The blackout rule is non existent now...NFL stopped that a few years ago

NY & Bay area can still have lost DH's due to the other team on SNF, MNF or TNF or Bye
(week 10 for Bay Area..no late CBS game. Oak at home and SF on MNF. NY is week 7. No early CBS game... Jets @ home on SH, NYG Monday Night)

LA has their own rule...as in "The NFL will probably let us have DH every week regardless of said rules"....take week 3 with the battle of LA on CBS. FOX got late game opposite it.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I do wonder why Joe Buck and Troy Aikman are doing the Minnesota @ Philadelphia game- they should be doing the LA Rams @ Seattle game instead.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I do wonder why Joe Buck and Troy Aikman are doing the Minnesota @ Philadelphia game- they should be doing the LA Rams @ Seattle game instead.


what did you smoke? Fox gives Yuck/Aikman the game of the week.
Fox late 
Min-Phi 81
LAR-Sea 11
Ariz-SF 7

So lets put the "A" team on a 11% distributed game instead of the 81% game? Yeah makes sense


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I think there is an exception to the rules- the Jacksonville @ Kansas City game was a blowout on CBS, and that audience was switched to the Baltimore @ Cleveland game- and stayed with it, till it ended, even though the Minnesota @ Philadelphia game on Fox was about to start.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> no
> If you had the game from the getgo...you keep the game until conclusion then get the late game
> If you got it as "bonus coverage" then FOX dumped you out to the late game on time
> 
> CBS and FOX apparently have different rules on bonus coverage.


It happened again today, and my area saw the game in question(Giants-Panthers) to it's conclusion, since it was the home team(Panthers) playing.

Maybe it's me, but Fox shouldn't have to switch to the late game.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I think there is an exception to the rules- the Jacksonville @ Kansas City game was a blowout on CBS, and that audience was switched to the Baltimore @ Cleveland game- and stayed with it, till it ended, even though the Minnesota @ Philadelphia game on Fox was about to start.


nope not an exception.
When the KC/Jax game got switched that became the game you were going to have until its end. 
Areas that got the game as bonus coverage (after their regular game was done) got dropped at 3:26 Central

So if you got KC/Jax and got switched to Cleveland/Baltimore in the 4th quarter...you kept the game until its conclusion
If you got KC/Jax the whole game (or any other early CBS game) _then_ got switched to Cle/Bal as "bonus coverage"...you got dumped at 3:26 Central


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> It happened again today, and my area saw the game in question(Giants-Panthers) to it's conclusion, since it was the home team(Panthers) playing.
> 
> Maybe it's me, but Fox shouldn't have to switch to the late game.


If you are in a Carolina "continuous feed" market (which is probably most of the Carolinas) you kept the game until the end then went to the late game. NY & Carolina "continuous feed" markets kept it til the end. Everyone else got dumped to your late game.
Conversely I am in a Minnesota market (Minneapolis and Mankato, MN) so the Green Bay/Detroit game was pulled with 2 seconds left.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I do wish the TV rules would be overhauled.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I do wish the TV rules would be overhauled.


it aint gonna happen....


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Especially as everyone has access to Sunday Ticket now via streaming and there are both directv red zone and the cable available nfl version. You can get games you want to watch for a price.

Plus you get Thursday night, Sunday night and Monday night every where.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Someone said upthread that the blackout rules no longer exist? So that means if a team doesn't sell out within 48 hours, the home team will still be shown in the home team market? If that went away, my assumption is that they did that in order to appease the LA market, as the Rams will almost never sell out the LA Coliseum.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> Someone said upthread that the blackout rules no longer exist? So that means if a team doesn't sell out within 48 hours, the home team will still be shown in the home team market? If that went away, my assumption is that they did that in order to appease the LA market, as the Rams will almost never sell out the LA Coliseum.


A few years ago (2012) the NFL lowered the blackout rule to 85% of capacity. This was before the Rams moved back and the two teams this helped were the Raiders and Jags. In 2014 they removed the blackout policy on "a year to year basis" which has been "approved" every year since.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

unclehonkey said:


> A few years ago (2012) the NFL lowered the blackout rule to 85% of capacity. This was before the Rams moved back and the two teams this helped were the Raiders and Jags. In 2014 they removed the blackout policy on "a year to year basis" which has been "approved" every year since.


Thanks for the clarification. I've always felt that the NFL could play games in an empty stadium and still make money. Those blackout rules came from a day when they felt that TV was hurting home attendance. Heck, I remember when I first started watching the NFL, ALL home games were blacked out in the local area. I think that's why there are so many Cowboys, Steelers and Raiders fans here in NYC. They were on every week because they were often showcased when our home games were blacked out.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I've always felt that the NFL could play games in an empty stadium and still make money. Those blackout rules came from a day when they felt that TV was hurting home attendance. Heck, I remember when I first started watching the NFL, ALL home games were blacked out in the local area. I think that's why there are so many Cowboys, Steelers and Raiders fans here in NYC. They were on every week because they were often showcased when our home games were blacked out.


Yeah. Kind of backfired a bit.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I can't believe this, but the Fox station in DC has apparently received special permission to air *both* the CAR-PHI and NO-BAL games this week. It's CBS's doubleheader, so i wonder what's up.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Its the NFL. They do what they want. Look at LA for the last year plus when it came to supposed lost DH's. Plenty of times LA got 4 games when both Chargers and Rams were on the singleheader network. I mean if week 3 when it was the Battle of LA and CBS STILL got to show a game opposite it the NFL just does what they want.

It probably has to do with a very unique issue.
-Washington/Dallas being on CBS and not FOX (what is this...1992?)
-Baltimore being at home on the late slot on the SH network (kinda rare for a East Coast team)

So folks in DC get 5 games (London game, 2 CBS, 2 FOX)...YAY DC!

Hell last week CBS San Francisco got no early game because the Raiders were the "home" team on FOX last week.....IN LONDON!! They should have got an early game


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

just more proof there is a double standard with Baltimore and DC (there has been for years now) and the NFL does what they want

CBS: DAL/WSH, 4:25
Fox: NO/BAL, 4:05

Under normal NFL broadcasting rules, neither city would be able to get the other's game. Washington would have to take a 1:00 Fox game and Baltimore would have to air alternative programming during the majority of DAL/WSH. 

Under secondary market broadcasting rules, this week the same situation would apply as under normal broadcasting rules because the Raven game is at home and secondary markets don't have to air such games. In this case, both games are at home, so neither city has to air the other's game, and in fact neither city would be able to under such rules.

Under the double standard that we have known up to this point, Washington gets to air the Ravens in situations that conflict with the Redskins except in direct conflict situations (same time, same network or the SH network in different timeslots), while Baltimore has to observe the normal secondary market broadcasting rules. This includes Ravens home games, which are broadcast in Washington against the Redskins, not just road games.

Now, this week, we have a new one. Not only does Baltimore not get to air the Redskins and Washington does get to air the Ravens, but Washington ALSO GETS AN EARLY FOX GAME (CAR/PHI) in addition to NO/BAL! Even if for these purposes we consider the Ravens as having to air, it's certainly not true for CAR/PHI! There is a case that can be made for either game airing (CAR/PHI since WTTG is not supposed to oppose the Redskins with a Ravens home game) and NO/BAL (even Ravens home games air against Redskins home games in Washington under the double standard), but there is no case that can be made for getting both games! Baltimore gets two games this coming Sunday, Washington gets four! That's our biggest double standard yet.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

NFC vs NFC on CBS is just weird.. But I bet we get ROMO! again

yay


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> NFC vs NFC on CBS is just weird.. But I bet we get ROMO! again
> 
> yay


Agreed, well at least it's weird since Fox too the NFC games. I guess it got just TOO hard to find enough good AFC games


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Agreed, well at least it's weird since Fox too the NFC games. I guess it got just TOO hard to find enough good AFC games


Being a Patriots fan I can't complain.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> just more proof there is a double standard with Baltimore and DC (there has been for years now) and the NFL does what they want
> 
> CBS: DAL/WSH, 4:25
> Fox: NO/BAL, 4:05
> ...


That is unusual. How can it happen, that Washington does get to air the Ravens, but Washington ALSO GETS AN EARLY FOX GAME (CAR/PHI) in addition to NO/BAL, that isn't supposed to happen.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

jsmeeker said:


> NFC vs NFC on CBS is just weird.. But I bet we get ROMO! again
> 
> yay


yes we do

Yeah what is even weirder is both CBS late games are NFC vs NFC due to Cincy/KC being moved to Sunday Night Football

Week 10 its the same thing for the late CBS game. Seattle/Rams (both NFC teams)

Then you have Cleveland with FIVE FOX games this year (instead of the normal two)
Two they are the visitor to a NFC team yet is on FOX
When they played Oakland week 4 it was on FOX too


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> That is unusual. How can it happen, that Washington does get to air the Ravens, but Washington ALSO GETS AN EARLY FOX GAME (CAR/PHI) in addition to NO/BAL, that isn't supposed to happen.


Do you not read responses? Read the post right above that post

*Its the NFL. They do what they want. Look at LA for the last year plus when it came to supposed lost DH's. Plenty of times LA got 4 games when both Chargers and Rams were on the singleheader network. I mean if week 3 when it was the Battle of LA and CBS STILL got to show a game opposite it the NFL just does what they want.*


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Yeah.

they have rules. But the rules are more guidelines. They can make waivers/exceptions whenever to suit them. But usually, the "rules" are mostly followed. also, I think it seems to many here that they are more likely to bend/break rules these days than they may have in the past.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Obviously the networks have a say as well. I'm sure that having the Dallas Washington game on CBS is a boon to CBS as they are both teams that have a national following and would attract more eyeballs. And you get Romo fawning over his old team, which I'm sure they love.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm sure it was a "tit for tat" because technically under the "rules" Baltimore wouldn't have been able to show Washington game on CBS. 


Steveknj said:


> Obviously the networks have a say as well


The networks can ask but the NFL has the final say. There have been some odd decisions in games going to neutral markets or regional areas.

Week 2 Ft Myers Florida FOX shows Vikes/Green Bay instead of a Tampa game. This past week the same station showed Miami/Chicago instead of Tampa/Atlanta. And this is a FOX station touting itself as "Home of the Bucs"


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

The interesting part this year is, that Fox had a game(Cleveland @ Oakland) that ran so long, it delayed the Simpsons in the areas that had the game in the East.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

unclehonkey said:


> I'm sure it was a "tit for tat" because technically under the "rules" Baltimore wouldn't have been able to show Washington game on CBS.
> 
> The networks can ask but the NFL has the final say. There have been some odd decisions in games going to neutral markets or regional areas.
> 
> Week 2 Ft Myers Florida FOX shows Vikes/Green Bay instead of a Tampa game. This past week the same station showed Miami/Chicago instead of Tampa/Atlanta. And this is a FOX station touting itself as "Home of the Bucs"


I'm sure the networks paying BILLIONS of dollars and having to please advertisers have more than a LITTLE input. Of course the NFL wants the final say and it's their league, but I don't they make any drastic moves without the network's agreement. I'm not talking about local affiliates like in your scenario, but FOX itself, or CBS itself. The last couple of seasons NBC, ESPN and whoever controlled the Thursday night package complained about having terrible games. Notice that there are much better games this year? Some years ago they made a rule to flex games to the Sunday Night package. Why? Because NBC complained about getting stuck with bad games later in the season when certain teams expected to be good weren't. The NFL in many respects is a byproduct of the networks being able to showcase them. They'd be nothing without them. They need to please them.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Especially as everyone has access to Sunday Ticket now via streaming and there are both directv red zone and the cable available nfl version. You can get games you want to watch for a price.
> 
> Plus you get Thursday night, Sunday night and Monday night every where.


Does everyone have access to Sunday Ticket via streaming? I thought that this was only for DirecTV subs (and possible VZW as well).


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

triple header on CBS today!!!


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

jsmeeker said:


> triple header on CBS today!!!


except for those in Philly, Tampa, NYC and Miami (home team on FOX in early slot)


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

unclehonkey said:


> except for those in Philly, Tampa, NYC and Miami (home team on FOX in early slot)


sucks to be them!!


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I wonder how prime time was handled tonight, in the areas that got the New Orleans @ Baltimore game? Chicago, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Boston, Washington D.C., all of Louisiana, Baltimore, Knoxville and Jacksonville got this game.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I wonder how prime time was handled tonight, in the areas that got the New Orleans @ Baltimore game? Chicago, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Boston, Washington D.C., all of Louisiana, Baltimore, Knoxville and Jacksonville got this game.


Game was done around 6-6:15PM Central time and they had reruns of Simpsons and Bobs Burgers until prime time started according to tv listings. So Simpsons rerun was probably JIP'd.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Which is exactly what happened on 9/17 - it was a Fox doubleheader day, and a 4:25 game was delayed for about an hour because of lightning in the area, so it was still being played at 8:35 Eastern. Fox had a new episode of The Orville followed by repeats of The Simpsons and Family Guy scheduled; The Orville and The Simpsons aired 45 minutes late, but Family Guy did not.
> 
> This has happened, too, but maybe not to Fox; I remember watching an afternoon game on NBC that was interrupted around 7:30 Eastern so NBC could air its national news followed by a World Series game. Note that Fox has an NFL doubleheader on the same day it will air World Series Game 5, assuming the series doesn't end in four games.


I do remember one time, when NBC had the World Series, and the Colts-Raiders game was still in progress, but NBC went ahead and satrted their baseball coverage anyway after the Chiefs-Broncos game, since the Colts-Raiders game wasn't close at that time.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> CBS has to cue up the late game to the affiliates carrying it so they give a 2 minute buffer of commercials.
> 
> CBS & FOX have their own rules when it comes to the late game if in bonus coverage
> CBS will continue to show it before moving us to the late game (exception is the local markets of the teams playing the late game)
> FOX uses the "due to NFL rules" BS line and dumps us to the late game. They did it two weeks ago


FOX stuck with the Bengals/Bucs game a few weeks ago, so they don't always dump out to the late game.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> FOX stuck with the Bengals/Bucs game a few weeks ago, so they don't always dump out to the late game.


I never said they did. The only markets that got pulled early that week were the teams markets that were part of the late game. The rest joined about a minute into the game.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I thought it was interesting that Fox stuck with the Packers-Jets game a few weeks ago, even though it was CBS's doubleheader. In the years i've watched the NFL, it's never happened.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I thought it was interesting that Fox stuck with the Packers-Jets game a few weeks ago, even though it was CBS's doubleheader. In the years i've watched the NFL, it's never happened.


Could you clarify that? Since it was a CBS doubleheader day, why wouldn't Fox "stick with" a game somewhere, especially as it wasn't a blowout (the Jets won 44-38)? Was it "bonus coverage," or did you get to see the entire game live on TV?


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

It was bonus coverage, and i was surpised that Fox would stick with a bonus game opposite CBS's doubleheader.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

CBS used to have the issue of the late NCAA games going well past 7 before Turner was involved. CBS used to(can't remember if they still do it, given they've teamed up with Turner) be set up for "multiple network capability", which means the potential existed for basketball coverage to be ended for the majority of the country while one long-running game of local interest continued in certain markets. The last time i saw them bail on the tournament for local news was in 2006, with the Utah St.-Washington game, because of a delay caused by a bomb scare in San Diego.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> CBS used to have the issue of the late NCAA games going well past 7 before Turner was involved. CBS used to(can't remember if they still do it, given they've teamed up with Turner) be set up for "multiple network capability", which means the potential existed for basketball coverage to be ended for the majority of the country while one long-running game of local interest continued in certain markets. The last time i saw them bail on the tournament for local news was in 2006, with the Utah St.-Washington game, because of a delay caused by a bomb scare in San Diego.


My guess is that you should check your DVR settings for Sunday CBS shows the next 3 weeks and make sure you pad. CBS will stick with game until it's over, like they do with the NFL

(and as an aside, my phone just sent me a direcTV alert for the NCAA tournament...that's kind of creepy. I'm using my unconnected laptop! I think Google is reading my thoughts!)


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

Steveknj said:


> My guess is that you should check your DVR settings for Sunday CBS shows the next 3 weeks and make sure you pad. CBS will stick with game until it's over, like they do with the NFL
> 
> (and as an aside, my phone just sent me a direcTV alert for the NCAA tournament...that's kind of creepy. I'm using my unconnected laptop! I think Google is reading my thoughts!)


I padded NCIS:LA for 30 minutes and that still wasn't enough. Guess I'll just go with an hour. I continue to fail to understand why keeping sports events on schedule is so difficult.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

pj1983 said:


> I padded NCIS:LA for 30 minutes and that still wasn't enough. Guess I'll just go with an hour. I continue to fail to understand why keeping sports events on schedule is so difficult.


Yeah, i flipped the game on around 6:50 and there was over 7 minutes to go, so I went and changed my pad for an hour.

As for sports, my assumption here is that you aren't a sports fan. While sports are "timed" there's no way to keep a sporting event to a "fixed" length. You can start it earlier so it doesn't interfere, but that would mean, in this case, games starting before noon on a Sunday, which might not play well for a lot of folks who go to Church on Sunday, or sleep in. And you can't just switch the game somewhere else, because half the country is in a different timezone and prime time would not be effected. It's just something you learn to live with. With a DVR, you just pad, in the old VCR days, I just made it a point to watch CBS shows on Sunday night "live" as opposed to recorded (and yes, it's a reason why CBS does this as mentioned. And of course, there are a number of ways to stream games after the fact. Or simply, just protest and not watch CBS on Sunday.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, they could. E.g., when a football game hits three hours it's over, no matter what the clock says.

Not saying it's a viable alternative, just that it would be very easy to limit the time of a game. But why would they do that? They would lose both fans, and revenue (sports shows have higher ad rates than what usually follows). Instead of limiting the time of the game, they should do a better job of building their schedule around it. E.g., when NBC had football, they would have an episode of Dateline that would run from whenever the game ended to 7:00 Central. They almost NEVER had overruns.

But I haven't watched CBS Sunday shows in many years, because they obviously don't want me (a DVR user) as a viewer. Which is generally cool; they have only rarely had something on that I wanted to see (I think I have exactly two CBS 1Ps right now).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, they could. E.g., when a football game hits three hours it's over, no matter what the clock says.


This will never, never happen. You pretty much stated why.



> Instead of limiting the time of the game, they should do a better job of building their schedule around it. E.g., when NBC had football, they would have an episode of Dateline that would run from whenever the game ended to 7:00 Central. They almost NEVER had overruns.
> 
> But I haven't watched CBS Sunday shows in many years, because they obviously don't want me (a DVR user) as a viewer. Which is generally cool; they have only rarely had something on that I wanted to see (I think I have exactly two CBS 1Ps right now).


I've probably said this many time, so bear with me if I'm repeating, but it's been show that CBS ratings go UP on nights when there are football (or in this case basketball) overruns. So if that's the case, WHY would CBS change anything? From a business standpoint it makes little sense. Plus, as mentioned half the country doesn't have this problem. The simplest fix is to do what Fox does, and that's use that first hour of PT for flex scheduling, such as running repeats of of The Simpsons or for their OT show. But CBS has a "tradition" problem with that, in that 60 Minutes has been shown at 7PM ET) for years and years. And as I said, ratings don't seem to be suffering at all. I just pad a half hour for the two shows I watch on Sunday nights and keep an eye on things to see if that will be enough. If I'm going out, or away, I'll just set the pad to an hour. I cannot recall an hour not being enough.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

That's fine for you. I just don't want to screw around with it. There's already too much to watch, so CBS is just making it easier for me by scheduling shows on Sunday night! 

(I assume that CBS ratings go up because their viewership has less overlap than usual with DVR users...)


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Missed the entire first half of Madame Secretary on Sunday. I had no idea there was any reason to pad. I don't have CBSAA or anything so... maybe I just won't get to see that episode. Bummer.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That's fine for you. I just don't want to screw around with it. There's already too much to watch, so CBS is just making it easier for me by scheduling shows on Sunday night!
> 
> *(I assume that CBS ratings go up because their viewership has less overlap than usual with DVR users...)*


That might be part of it, but another part of it is that people who were watching the game may just decide to keep watching 60 Minutes because it was heavily promoted during the game. So they stick around through 60 Minutes and then when that ends, they would normally flip channels to another show, but instead of being 7:59, it's now 8:23, and all other channels are in the middle of a show. So they just stick on CBS so they don't have to start in the middle of a show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> That might be part of it, but another part of it is that people who were watching the game may just decide to keep watching 60 Minutes because it was heavily promoted during the game. So they stick around through 60 Minutes and then when that ends, they would normally flip channels to another show, but instead of being 7:59, it's now 8:23, and all other channels are in the middle of a show. So they just stick on CBS so they don't have to start in the middle of a show.


And I'll bet you that's the same old-people demographic who A) watch CBS and B) don't know how to use a DVR...

I suspect your average tech-savvy DVR-user knows what shows they want to watch and don't just watch whatever's on.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I'll bet you that's the same old-people demographic who A) watch CBS and B) don't know how to use a DVR...
> 
> I suspect your average tech-savvy DVR-user knows what shows they want to watch and don't just watch whatever's on.


My MO for Sunday is to switch to 60 Minutes around 6ish Central Time. If they still have sports, I utter a bad word [0] and switch to something on my DVR or Netflix. I don't like it, or anything else on CBS Sunday, enough to bother padding.

[0] These days, I'm burned out enough that I usually don't even bother with the bad word.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

The TV block for the last game on CBS was 5:00-7:00 ET but tip-off was scheduled for 5:15 ET. There was no way 60 Minutes was starting on time.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> The TV block for the last game on CBS was 5:00-7:00 ET but tip-off was scheduled for 5:15 ET. There was no way 60 Minutes was starting on time.


To me, that's a problem, and I don't understand why CBS doesn't adjust to that. They have with NFL broadcasts to some extent, starting their Sunday block as 7:30. So I don't understand why they don't make that same adjustment here. Actually i do understand, and it's exactly what I said. They KNOW that the overruns lead to better ratings, and they know their ratings for Sunday night tend to have an older demo who are less likely to record something.

But yeah, that to me is just not very consumer friendly. But, some folks here complain about it year after year. This is nothing new, and probably going on for 20 years or more. It's just easy enough to know that this what is going to happen and plan for it ahead of time if there's something on CBS you want to watch. I don't watch the NCAA's but I know what's going to happen here. And it's going to happen again this Sunday and possibly the following Sunday as well (I'm not sure if the final four will be on Saturday or Sunday). Pad an extra hour now and be done with it.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> To me, that's a problem, and I don't understand why CBS doesn't adjust to that. They have with NFL broadcasts to some extent, starting their Sunday block as 7:30. So I don't understand why they don't make that same adjustment here. Actually i do understand, and it's exactly what I said. They KNOW that the overruns lead to better ratings, and they know their ratings for Sunday night tend to have an older demo who are less likely to record something.
> 
> But yeah, that to me is just not very consumer friendly. But, some folks here complain about it year after year. This is nothing new, and probably going on for 20 years or more. It's just easy enough to know that this what is going to happen and plan for it ahead of time if there's something on CBS you want to watch. I don't watch the NCAA's but I know what's going to happen here. And it's going to happen again this Sunday and possibly the following Sunday as well (I'm not sure if the final four will be on Saturday or Sunday). Pad an extra hour now and be done with it.


I agree, 60 Minutes should have been scheduled for 7:30.

This week the block is 4:30-7:00 but tip-off is 5:05. It'll run late again.

Final Four is on Saturday.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

pj1983 said:


> I padded NCIS:LA for 30 minutes and that still wasn't enough. Guess I'll just go with an hour.





madscientist said:


> Missed the entire first half of Madame Secretary on Sunday. I had no idea there was any reason to pad.


I pad every CBS show that ever airs on Sunday by one hour. Just. Do. It.

There's football, golf, basketball, etc. Why worry & fiddle with what's on before? Just. Do. It.

God Friended Me, Madam Secretary, Elementary... if it runs on Sunday, PAD!


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

astrohip said:


> I pad every CBS show that ever airs on Sunday by one hour. Just. Do. It.
> 
> There's football, golf, basketball, etc. Why worry & fiddle with what's on before? Just. Do. It.
> 
> God Friended Me, Madam Secretary, Elementary... if it runs on Sunday, PAD!


This.

So much this

Just do it


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## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

madscientist said:


> Missed the entire first half of Madame Secretary on Sunday. I had no idea there was any reason to pad. I don't have CBSAA or anything so... maybe I just won't get to see that episode. Bummer.


Should be able to watch it here (CBSAA subscription not required):
Watch Madam Secretary Season 5 Episode 17: The Common Defense - Full show on CBS All Access

P.S. Next time, don't ignore my post. 
Urgent Pad Recording Alerts (EAST)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

One nice thing I noticed this week was a notice of when the next show would start on the bottom of the screen. I redid God Friended Me as a manual recording and all was well.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> One nice thing I noticed this week was a notice of when the next show would start on the bottom of the screen. I redid God Friended Me as a manual recording and all was well.


CBS always does this when their lineup is delayed. It's definitely helpful.


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

Steveknj said:


> Yeah, i flipped the game on around 6:50 and there was over 7 minutes to go, so I went and changed my pad for an hour.
> 
> As for sports, my assumption here is that you aren't a sports fan. While sports are "timed" there's no way to keep a sporting event to a "fixed" length. (snip)





cherry ghost said:


> The TV block for the last game on CBS was 5:00-7:00 ET but tip-off was scheduled for 5:15 ET. There was no way 60 Minutes was starting on time.


No, not really a sports fan here. These two observations support my point. CBS schedules the block for 5-7 but knows the game won't start until 5:15? Strike 1. Ten minutes to go in the block, 7 minutes to play, and a 1-hour pad is needed? Strike 2.



Steveknj said:


> To me, that's a problem, and I don't understand why CBS doesn't adjust to that. They have with NFL broadcasts to some extent, starting their Sunday block as 7:30. So I don't understand why they don't make that same adjustment here. Actually i do understand, and it's exactly what I said. They KNOW that the overruns lead to better ratings, and they know their ratings for Sunday night tend to have an older demo who are less likely to record something.


They can do it for the NFL, sort of, but not for the NCAA? Strike 3.



Steveknj said:


> But yeah, that to me is just not very consumer friendly. But, some folks here complain about it year after year. This is nothing new, and probably going on for 20 years or more. It's just easy enough to know that this what is going to happen and plan for it ahead of time if there's something on CBS you want to watch. I don't watch the NCAA's but I know what's going to happen here. And it's going to happen again this Sunday and possibly the following Sunday as well (I'm not sure if the final four will be on Saturday or Sunday). Pad an extra hour now and be done with it.





astrohip said:


> I pad every CBS show that ever airs on Sunday by one hour. Just. Do. It.
> 
> There's football, golf, basketball, etc. Why worry & fiddle with what's on before? Just. Do. It.
> 
> God Friended Me, Madam Secretary, Elementary... if it runs on Sunday, PAD!


Message received.  Frankly, I could live without NCIS:LA but I don't have the final say in the matter here.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I'm no fan of the way they do it either (hardly ever watch sports), but unlike Rob, their Sunday night shows are some of my faves. Rather than beat my head against the wall, I just pad. Love _*God Friended Me*_, so no way I let sports get in the way.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, they could. E.g., when a football game hits three hours it's over, no matter what the clock says.
> 
> Not saying it's a viable alternative, just that it would be very easy to limit the time of a game. But why would they do that? They would lose both fans, and revenue (sports shows have higher ad rates than what usually follows). Instead of limiting the time of the game, they should do a better job of building their schedule around it. E.g., when NBC had football, they would have an episode of Dateline that would run from whenever the game ended to 7:00 Central. They almost NEVER had overruns.
> 
> But I haven't watched CBS Sunday shows in many years, because they obviously don't want me (a DVR user) as a viewer. Which is generally cool; they have only rarely had something on that I wanted to see (I think I have exactly two CBS 1Ps right now).


Re: football and Dateline- as i mentioned before, i do remember a San Diego-Kansas City game, in 1996 that ran more than 40 minutes past 7 P.M., when Dateline was scheduled to start and the game(i think it was in San Diego) ended with a blocked field goal attempt; had the kick been good, it would have sent the game into overtime, and it would have delayed the hit comedy ''Third Rock from the Sun,'' which NBC moved to Sunday nights that year. A week or 2 later, that show was delayed by the Indianapolis-Buffalo game, which *did* go to OT.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I'll bet you that's the same old-people demographic who A) watch CBS and B) don't know how to use a DVR...
> 
> I suspect your average tech-savvy DVR-user knows what shows they want to watch and don't just watch whatever's on.


Excuse me... I'm part of the demographic you are insulting here. I've been watching 60 MINUTES from the day it came on in 1968 till today. Well there was that timeframe in college when I probably wasn't watching it. But I also brought my first Series 1 TiVo in November of 1999, exactly the same year they were released. Oh, and for full disclosure, I've seen every episode of 60 MINUTES since 1995 when I started working on the show full time. The average 60 MINUTES viewer may be older, but I can assure you their not the doddering old dolts you make them out to be.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

MScottC said:


> Excuse me... I'm part of the demographic you are insulting here. I've been watching 60 MINUTES from the day it came on in 1968 till today. Well there was that timeframe in college when I probably wasn't watching it. But I also brought my first Series 1 TiVo in November of 1999, exactly the same year they were released. Oh, and for full disclosure, I've seen every episode of 60 MINUTES since 1995 when I started working on the show full time. The average 60 MINUTES viewer may be older, but I can assure you their not the doddering old dolts you make them out to be.


You are not in the group he mentioned:



> A) watch CBS and B) don't know how to use a DVR...


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

MScottC said:


> Excuse me... I'm part of the demographic you are insulting here. I've been watching 60 MINUTES from the day it came on in 1968 till today. Well there was that timeframe in college when I probably wasn't watching it. But I also brought my first Series 1 TiVo in November of 1999, exactly the same year they were released. Oh, and for full disclosure, I've seen every episode of 60 MINUTES since 1995 when I started working on the show full time. The average 60 MINUTES viewer may be older, but I can assure you their not the doddering old dolts you make them out to be.


Ditto. Had a Replay TV DVR, and when it failed to record the episode when Alicia got voted out in Survivor 2, I bought a Tivo Series 2 as a backup. I use to build my own computers. I have a college degree, Navy nuclear trained, worked 32 years commercial nuclear power after eight years in Admiral Rickover nuclear Navy. Heavy into digital photography, presently shooting with two Nikon DSLRs, two Panasonic and three Olympus mirrorless cameras. This "doddering old dolt you make old people to be beat out those who were twenty to thirty years younger because they didn't know how to use a PC.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

So, as Brett said, you're NOT part of the demographic I was referring to...


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I'm reasonably sure that nobody on a Tivo-based forum fits part B of your statement, Rob.  Though I too probably qualify as an old geezer.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

allan said:


> Though I too probably qualify as an old geezer.


I never thought I did, until I started thinking about those dang kids and their texting and Instabook and Twitgram...


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

A) watch CBS and B) don't know how to use a DVR...



BrettStah said:


> You are not in the group he mentioned:


In the entertainment business, "Demographics" apply typically to age groups. He was grouping people who don't know how to use a DVR with old people. And that I, and apparently others, find offensive.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MScottC said:


> A) watch CBS and B) don't know how to use a DVR...
> 
> In the entertainment business, "Demographics" apply typically to age groups. He was grouping people who don't know how to use a DVR with old people. And that I, and apparently others, find offensive.


Well, that wasn't my intent (which is why I qualified "old people" with additional factors). I apologize to anybody who was offended, but I also stand by my assertion that CBS probably has a higher number of viewers than usual who are not DVR-users, and that this in part explains why they seem to care less than other networks about DVR-users.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, that wasn't my intent (which is why I qualified "old people" with additional factors). I apologize to anybody who was offended, but I also stand by my assertion that CBS probably has a higher number of viewers than usual who are not DVR-users, and that this in part explains why they seem to care less than other networks about DVR-users.


CBS has an older demo, that's well known. Does that translate into less DVR users?

It's an interesting question. Makes me curious about the demo of DVR users. Off to search...

And back: Found a bunch of studies, mostly old (like 2010). DVR users are more likely to be wealthy, white, and .... wait for it, younger! Having said that, a newer report showed that younger viewers (AKA millennials) are dropping TV and DVRs in favor of streaming. Leading to the conclusion that eventually the only DVR users will be old rich Caucasians, who will give it up when they pry their cold dead fingers from the peanut. IOW, me!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> CBS has an older demo, that's well known. Does that translate into less DVR users?
> 
> It's an interesting question. Makes me curious about the demo of DVR users. Off to search...
> 
> And back: Found a bunch of studies, mostly old (like 2010). DVR users are more likely to be wealthy, white, and .... wait for it, younger! Having said that, a newer report showed that younger viewers (AKA millennials) are dropping TV and DVRs in favor of streaming. Leading to the conclusion that eventually the only DVR users will be old rich Caucasians, who will give it up when they pry their cold dead fingers from the peanut. IOW, me!


And even with that, there's a subset of DVR users who aren't "sophisticated" users. I.E. The DVR essentially replaced the VCR in that it can record shows and that's all it's used for. They don't FF, they don't skip commercials. Stuff like that. I remember back in the 1980s and 90s the whole culture of the VCR with the blinking 12:00. A lot of people used them to rent movies or record something they were watching at the moment. I feel there's probably a large proportion of DVR users who just look at the guide and record stuff they say. No SP and they play the show and watch in full without skipping anything. If you watch a lot of those CBS Sunday shows, it's pretty obvious who they are advertising for. Lots of ads for pharmaceuticals, lots of trips to places that appeal to wealthy retirees and things like that. And if those folks are more likely to use their DVRs without FF or skipping, it's the perfect storm for CBS to have them "captive" watching live or on DVRs with commercials.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

For that matter, there are some DVR users (I don't know how many, but they exist) who mostly use them for live TV.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

CBS does indeed have an older demo. And yes, 60 MINUTES has a lower DVR Viewership rating then most shows. Typically 60 MINUTES is in the top 10 when the overnight ratings are released, hell, last week we were the #1 non-sports broadcast. But as the "Same day plus 3" or "Same day plus 7" numbers are released, the show slides down in the ratings. 

This affect typically does not apply to other CBS shows.

My gripe was the "CBS" and "Don't know how to use a VCR" being grouped together. Apology accepted if that isn't what you intended to do. 

My guess is it that the 60 MINUTES viewer is typically a more educated and intelligent viewer than the typical American TV viewer, though I don't have any real statistics on that. I'm sure someone does.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

This week wasn't as bad. Still ran over about 20 minutes, but expected that and padded accordingly.



MScottC said:


> CBS does indeed have an older demo. And yes, 60 MINUTES has a lower DVR Viewership rating then most shows. Typically 60 MINUTES is in the top 10 when the overnight ratings are released, hell, last week we were the #1 non-sports broadcast. But as the "Same day plus 3" or "Same day plus 7" numbers are released, the show slides down in the ratings.


I do wonder if there is still more value to people watching something live or even same night than there is on the +3 or +7 (where there IS the possibility of ads being skipped). if that's the case, then CBS might not care about the slippage. Especially when you consider the types of companies that buy ads during their Sunday night block and even more so, on 60 Minutes. I wonder if they sell advertising at an additional premium knowing that there's a possibility that a large chunk of their audience is going to watch live (and thus their ads are not skipped). If that's the case it makes SO much sense from a business standpoint to continue the practice of having games overrun into their block of shows and thus boost the ratings of those shows.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I remember when NBC had AFC rights, a lot of times, whatever they had following those games sucked, to the point that NBC gave up and ran Dateline. I mean shows like Eerie, Indiana, Mark and Brian, Our House, The Torkelsons, etc.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It was great when they went to Dateline, though, because they used it as flex programming...they would just run it from when the game ended until 7:00 Central, and adjust the content to fit the time available.

(CBS couldn't do that even if they wanted to with 60 Minutes, because 60 Minutes isn't live.)


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## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> (CBS couldn't do that even if they wanted to with 60 Minutes, because 60 Minutes isn't live.)


Plus, they'd have to rename the show "60 Minutes (or Less)"


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I remember when NBC had AFC rights, a lot of times, whatever they had following those games sucked, to the point that NBC gave up and ran Dateline. I mean shows like Eerie, Indiana, Mark and Brian, Our House, The Torkelsons, etc.


One year, NBC tried an experiment; they made 15-minute episodes of _Punky Brewster_ so that if a game run until 7:15 Eastern, it could air a "complete episode" in the remaining 15 minutes.

I also vaguely remember a _60 Minutes_ episode where they skipped one of the stories because it started late, but the entire episode aired in the west - and the story appeared in another episode (with a "disclaimer" that western viewers had already seen it) a few weeks later.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> One year, NBC tried an experiment; they made 15-minute episodes of _Punky Brewster_ so that if a game run until 7:15 Eastern, it could air a "complete episode" in the remaining 15 minutes.


Although, if Wikipedia is to be believed, the plan never really came to fruition, and they just aired the 15-minute episodes back-to-back in a 30-minute slot. (It's possible that only certain markets were affected, but I don't remember ever getting only one 15-minute episode in Tampa.)


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> One year, NBC tried an experiment; they made 15-minute episodes of _Punky Brewster_ so that if a game run until 7:15 Eastern, it could air a "complete episode" in the remaining 15 minutes.
> 
> I also vaguely remember a _60 Minutes_ episode where they skipped one of the stories because it started late, but the entire episode aired in the west - and the story appeared in another episode (with a "disclaimer" that western viewers had already seen it) a few weeks later.


I can't remember, which game it was, but i do remember the World Series being delayed once- for an NFL game.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I wonder how Fox in New York is allowed to show the Redskins-Eagles game, even though the Jets are at home? i thought the rules didn't allow that?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I wonder how Fox in New York is allowed to show the Redskins-Eagles game, even though the Jets are at home? i thought the rules didn't allow that?


I read through the rules and you're right, they shouldn't, but, they've relaxed a lot of broadcast rules the last few years, so who knows? For example, if the home team doesn't sell at least 85% of their tickets by 72 hours before kickoff the game is supposed to be blacked out, but they've relaxed that rule. So I wonder in this case they've done the same (and i'd bet this is due to gamblers wanting to see these games and sports betting is now legal in NJ where there are quite a few Eagles fans, even in the NY market part of NJ).


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

danderson400 said:


> I wonder how Fox in New York is allowed to show the Redskins-Eagles game, even though the Jets are at home? i thought the rules didn't allow that?


That rule is gone for this year. From an NFL news article back in May: "The single-header rule has been eliminated as a one-year test, so every market will get three games during Sundays in the regular season."

(The article claims it will benefit Los Angeles, but that rule has not been in effect in L.A. -- there have been at least three games on here every Sunday morning/afternoon, even with both the Rams and Chargers.)

I wouldn't be surprised if this "one-year test" ends up getting extended in perpetuity, which is also what's been happening with the 72-hour blackout rule -- it's officially still on the books, but the NFL keeps suspending it on a year-by-year basis.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

trainman said:


> That rule is gone for this year. From an NFL news article back in May: "The single-header rule has been eliminated as a one-year test, so every market will get three games during Sundays in the regular season."


I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that they had to give San Francisco an exemption a few times over the past couple of seasons because the 49ers and Raiders both had late games - western teams' home games have to be late games - and, presumably, somebody noticed that it didn't affect the ratings that badly. So, of course, they do it one season before the Raiders move to Las Vegas, which gets rid of the problem in San Francisco...


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I was surprised to read that CBS cut away from the Chiefs game in the local market.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

trainman said:


> That rule is gone for this year. From an NFL news article back in May: "The single-header rule has been eliminated as a one-year test, so every market will get three games during Sundays in the regular season."


I have heard that it's not entirely eliminated; each team is allowed to "block" a number of games equal to something like the number of possible conflicts minus two. Reportedly, Miami and Cleveland did not get early games on Fox in week 1 because the teams had 1:00 games on CBS and they both used one of their allowed blocks. The Fox pre-game show ended with, "If you're only getting a late game, we'll return after these commercials," so either this is the case, or somebody forgot to tell the show's hosts about the change.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I was surprised to read that CBS cut away from the Chiefs game in the local market.


production truck started on fire due to overheating so there was no feed available


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

That Don Guy said:


> I have heard that it's not entirely eliminated; each team is allowed to "block" a number of games equal to something like the number of possible conflicts minus two. Reportedly, Miami and Cleveland did not get early games on Fox in week 1 because the teams had 1:00 games on CBS and they both used one of their allowed blocks. The Fox pre-game show ended with, "If you're only getting a late game, we'll return after these commercials," so either this is the case, or somebody forgot to tell the show's hosts about the change.


correct
Cleveland and Miami did not have an early FOX game


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

and as of right now according to listings for next week the 4 CBS early home teams have no early FOX game
Miami
Nashville
Detroit
NYC

Houston is the only one with a competing game against the home team....and its Dal-ASS

Oakland has the Rams game competing against it in the late slot (Oakland on CBS, Rams on FOX)


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I'm not 100% sure about this, and this might be mentioned earlier in this thread, but I _think_ there's a rule that says CBS and Fox have to end their coverage when the NBC game is about to start.


Fox stayed with "bonus coverage" of Detroit @ Arizona past the starting time of the Pittsburgh @ New England game, which was on NBC. Maybe because Fox mentioned the NBC game often during the overtime.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

trainman said:


> That rule is gone for this year. From an NFL news article back in May: "The single-header rule has been eliminated as a one-year test, so every market will get three games during Sundays in the regular season."


incorrect. This is from someone in the know (they work at a FOX station) _What the league approved was for every team to have two exceptions in the season to the doubleheader rule. The broadcast team at the league than worked with the clubs to identify the two weeks where they would allow these exceptions. IF the team wanted to allow for additional exceptions that was also discussed and included in the proposal. That full proposal was then sent up the ladder at the NFL and at the end of July, the networks received the final ruling on which markets would be allowed two games and in what weeks. _

So as example here in Minnesota Minneapolis has 3 lost DH's. They can (doesnt mean they will) ask for 2 exceptions. Mpls is week 3, 6 and 14


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

That Don Guy said:


> I'm not 100% sure about this, and this might be mentioned earlier in this thread, but I _think_ there's a rule that says CBS and Fox have to end their coverage when the NBC game is about to start.





danderson400 said:


> Fox stayed with "bonus coverage" of Detroit @ Arizona past the starting time of the Pittsburgh @ New England game, which was on NBC. Maybe because Fox mentioned the NBC game often during the overtime.


The NBC game was delayed a few minutes and kickoff was right after Det/AZ went final...around 7:23 CDT


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> I have heard that it's not entirely eliminated; each team is allowed to "block" a number of games equal to something like the number of possible conflicts minus two. Reportedly, Miami and Cleveland did not get early games on Fox in week 1 because the teams had 1:00 games on CBS and they both used one of their allowed blocks. The Fox pre-game show ended with, "If you're only getting a late game, we'll return after these commercials," so either this is the case, or somebody forgot to tell the show's hosts about the change.


Phoenix only got the local game in the 4 pm ET slot, no competing game on CBS.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

DevdogAZ said:


> Phoenix only got the local game in the 4 pm ET slot, no competing game on CBS.


CBS was the singleheader network. So you got either a early or late game. Since Arizona played on FOX in the late slot at home CBS has to show an early game.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Remind me when they (NFL/networks) changed the rule about which network covers a given Sunday day game.

Dolphins are playing Cowboys today.. The game is in Dallas. But the game is on FOX. Why? Thought the rule was the covering network was based on the conference of the VISITING team. AFC? It's CBS. NFC? It's Fox.

This changed?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Remind me when they (NFL/networks) changed the rule about which network covers a given Sunday day game.


According to the NFL, 2014. I didn't think it was that long ago, but I do remember it happening as far back as 2017.

I'm pretty sure this was done because the networks complained that they could only air the "big teams" from the other conference only twice per season (when they played their two home games against teams from the other conference).


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

hmmm... So, they still try to keep it that way but it's not a hard and fast rule anymore. Cause I know for sure I have seen some Cowboy games on CBS in recent years.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think they've loosened the rules a bit to allow for more equitable distribution of games...


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

crossflexing on networks has been around for 5 years. It allows them to move games that would be considered "good" to slots/networks so the biggest audience sees it or to balance out the options so that say CBS doesnt have 8 games and FOX only has 4

As example next week CBS has the DH. The "primary" late game is Minnesota at Chicago. In fact the Vikes were in the first one. 2011 week 13 they hosted Denver but was carried on FOX due to CBS having 6 early games and FOX ending up with only 2 (FOX had the DH and had 3 late games). This gave CBS 5 early games and FOX 3

So far week 3 is the first week of flexed games
3 of the early FOX games in theory (if we had old rules) would have been on CBS. Oakland/Minny, Denver/Green Bay and Miami/Dal-ASS
on CBS is Atlanta/Indy early and New Orleans/Seattle late

If we had old rules there would have been 6 early CBS games vs. 2 on CBS and New Orleans/Seattle would be in the FOX SH and only shown to a few areas. CBS late games would be Houston/LAC and Pittsburgh/San Fran


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Not everyone got the red carpet stuff tonight- Giants-Bucs ran past 7.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> Not everyone got the red carpet stuff tonight- Giants-Bucs ran past 7.


so? Red Carpet crap ran up to 7 CDT. Both FOX games were done by 6:20.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

unclehonkey said:


> so? Red Carpet crap ran up to 7 CDT. Both FOX games were done by 6:20.


Not here. Cardinals/Panthers ended and they went straight to the red carpet thing already in progress.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> hmmm... So, they still try to keep it that way but it's not a hard and fast rule anymore. Cause I know for sure I have seen some Cowboy games on CBS in recent years.


Of course the AFC has exactly 2 decent teams and one borderline decent teams (Chiefs-Pat, borderline Ravens), so I fully expect a lot of the better NFC games to get moved to CBS during their DH week.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> It's not just CBS. Fox has done this when its national Sunday football coverage ran to 8:30 Eastern. I'm pretty sure NBC and ABC have done this as well when necessary. In fact, NBC had three episodes of _Punky Brewster_ made as two 15-minute mini-episodes each so it could air one of them if its football coverage ran until 7:15 Eastern.
> 
> I _think_ the main reason is, the networks don't want to push the schedule so far that it would affect the local affiliates' local news programs that follow.
> 
> What the networks do in the Pacific time zone as a result is another story. In "ye olden days," when CBS would pull its 8:00 show on Sunday (pulling _60 Minutes_ was out of the question, although there was at least one time when it was joined in progress in the east, and the lead story aired on another episode a few weeks later), sometimes it would leave the 8:00 Pacific slot empty and have the affiliates show local programming, and other times it would air the 9:00 and 10:00 programs an hour early. Today, I think everybody just airs a repeat of the pre-empted programs; Fox definitely does. Note that this is different from when they air a live sporting event that they know will pre-empt shows in the east (for example, Fox's NASCAR coverage on Memorial Day weekend), in which case the western affiliates are told to fill the time themselves - presumably with the shows they would have aired three hours earlier had it not been for the sporting event.


I can't remember the last time that _60 Minutes_ was joined in progress in the east, maybe it was after the Ravens-Chargers game in 2009, and Emmys were scheduled at 8.

I wonder if Fox or CBS would delay the Emmys in the event of a game like when Fox stayed with "bonus coverage" of Detroit @ Arizona past the starting time of the Pittsburgh @ New England game. In that case, the Emmys would be pushed back until the game was over.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Fox builds buffer into their schedule. Like this week, the red carpet is considered buffer. The only way they would exceed the buffer typically would be with a prolonged weather delay.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I wonder if Fox or CBS would delay the Emmys in the event of a game like when Fox stayed with "bonus coverage" of Detroit @ Arizona past the starting time of the Pittsburgh @ New England game. In that case, the Emmys would be pushed back until the game was over.


The late games on the singleheader network start at 3:05 CDT whereas doubleheader network is 3:25

That 20 minutes makes a big difference.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I wonder if Fox or CBS would delay the Emmys in the event of a game like when Fox stayed with "bonus coverage" of Detroit @ Arizona past the starting time of the Pittsburgh @ New England game. In that case, the Emmys would be pushed back until the game was over.


I want to say that this happened to CBS in 2013, but the overrun was just a few minutes, so they delayed the start.

I would assume that they would delay the start of the ceremony, especially now that the shortening of the overtime period from 15 minutes to 10 makes the possibility of a really long delay slim. The only other option I can think of is to shuffle the category order so that, for example, Limited Series/Movie Writing and Directing would go first; that way, there wouldn't be that many complaints that viewers missed some of the categories.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Why is it that CBS switches to another game when it's main game is over? I sit so that everybody is on the same page?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

danderson400 said:


> Why is it that CBS switches to another game when it's main game is over? I sit so that everybody is on the same page?


Bonus coverage. There is time left in the programming block so they figure people like to see more actual football being played, especially if it's a close finish. And yes it can help make the post game studio show easier to do


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## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

danderson400 said:


> Why is it that CBS switches to another game when it's main game is over? I sit so that everybody is on the same page?


There are multiple "main games" each Sunday. I believe they switch so that all markets [within the time zone] are in synch at the end of the day.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

DVR_Dave said:


> There are multiple "main games" each Sunday. I believe they switch so that all markets [within the time zone] are in synch at the end of the day.


exactly


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Bonus coverage. There is time left in the programming block so they figure people like to see more actual football being played, especially if it's a close finish. And yes it can help make the post game studio show easier to do


Except that really wasn't the case. Switching to another game meant they went over their allotted time and delayed their whole schedule. That's the kind of thing non-football fans complain about. But as I've said many times, CBS does this for a reason. The NFL overruns bring in large audiences who just stick with their schedule. Obviously that happens less and less these days with streaming and DVRs, but there still might something to it. Plus I'm sure they get more money per ad during football than they do for their prime time schedules. There's always about 4-5 minutes worth of commercials right after the game ends too (that makes me mad). I'm down to one CBS show (for now, until Madam Sec'y comes back), so I pad the one show sufficiently and I'm done with it.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

When CBS has the Doubleheader and multiple late games (as was the case this past week) they make sure all the games are done so that its one East/Central feed for prime time

When CBS has the SH and multiple late games there is no bonus coverage (usually) so there may be multiple prime time schedules. Happened week 1 where CBS had 2 late games and had 3 prime time feeds for East/Central
-normal start time
-14 minutes late (those folks had Indy/Chargers as game)
-22 minutes late (those had Seattle/Cincy as late game)

Looking ahead
weeks 5, 7, 10, 12 single late game and CBS is SH network..these games usually go to the markets of the teams playing and markets that either legally cant show a game against the home team or markets that dont want to go against the local team.
weeks 6, 8, 9, 11, 13, 14 multiple late games and CBS has DH network so they will sync all games up


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Tonights markets with a possible delay of CBS
Minnesota (Minneapolis, Rochester, Mankato, Duluth)
Chicago
Cincy*
Atlanta
New Orleans* / (Baton Rouge)
Houston*
Tampa

* teams were at home and therefore are required to air the late game
The others were road teams but didnt want to go against the local team
NY was the other home team but Jets were on same time on CBS


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

12 minutes late tonight


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm kind of surprised that Cowboys-Jets is the main CBS game Sunday. Can't they move Rams-49ers to CBS?


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I'm kind of surprised that Cowboys-Jets is the main CBS game Sunday. Can't they move Rams-49ers to CBS?


nope
All flex options until week 17 have to be made 12 days in advance. Week 17 is 6 days in advance.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I do notice a trend for a late singleheader game to go to no more than 20% of the nation. I do wonder if it's protecting the doubleheader network?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I do notice a trend for a late singleheader game to go to no more than 20% of the nation. I do wonder if it's protecting the doubleheader network?


I think it's more along the lines of, the "best" game on the doubleheader network tends to be its second game, so the singleheader network doesn't have to have too many of its stations show its one game that day at the same time.

If I am reading the schedule correctly, the only late singleheader games that were not in the Pacific or Mountain time zones (so they couldn't be early games, as they would have to start before noon local time) so far have been Giants-Buccaneers in week 3 and Chargers-Titans in week 7.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

That Don Guy said:


> If I am reading the schedule correctly, the only late singleheader games that were not in the Pacific or Mountain time zones (so they couldn't be early games, as they would have to start before noon local time) so far have been Giants-Buccaneers in week 3 and Chargers-Titans in week 7.


correct. As of right now the others are MIA @ IND week 11, JAX @ TN week 12, and LAC @ JAX week 14


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I do notice a trend for a late singleheader game to go to no more than 20% of the nation. I do wonder if it's protecting the doubleheader network?


umm DUH!

I've mentioned it a few times here and elsewhere the late game on the singleheader network goes to the two teams playing (and the regional area), the markets that HAVE to show it (due to the local team at home on early slot) and markets that want to show it so not to go against the local team (that is on the road)

This weeks markets that are showing the late games on FOX (there are two)
Detroit/Oakland
Michigan/Toledo (Toledo is a Lions secondary market so they HAVE to show the Lions road games)
Northern Cali/most of Nevada
Pittsburgh (local team at home on CBS early)
Indy (to not go against the local team)
New Mexico (unknown reason)

Tampa/Seattle
Pacific Northwest (Washington/Oregon/Idaho) and parts of Western Montana
Most of Florida (Miami due to Fins at home)
Nashville (to not go against the local team)
Charlotte (local team at home on CBS early) and Greensboro

The only market "bucking the trend" is New York. There is a game on FOX being shown against a Jets game (Jets on Road) and its not the Giants...They're showing Chicago/Philly


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I think it's more along the lines of, the "best" game on the doubleheader network tends to be its second game, so the singleheader network doesn't have to have too many of its stations show its one game that day at the same time.
> 
> If I am reading the schedule correctly, the only late singleheader games that were not in the Pacific or Mountain time zones (so they couldn't be early games, as they would have to start before noon local time) so far have been Giants-Buccaneers in week 3 and Chargers-Titans in week 7.


i do notice that on your Simpsons site, you sometimes list an rerun airing in the _ "_C_" _time slot in the Eastern and Central time zones like when Fox's coverage of that day's Lions-Cardinals NFL game ran 30 minutes long and there was a case this year of a ep airing only out West because the Daytona 500 ran long because of two delays caused by crashes.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

60 Minutes will be delayed this week in South Florida, State of Indiana plus a few other clusters that dot the map: Miami, Indianapolis, Atlanta, Chattanooga, New Orleans and NYC. They have the Miami Dolphins at Indianapolis Colts game.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> umm DUH!
> 
> I've mentioned it a few times here and elsewhere the late game on the singleheader network goes to the two teams playing (and the regional area), the markets that HAVE to show it (due to the local team at home on early slot) and markets that want to show it so not to go against the local team (that is on the road)
> 
> ...


Fox gave NY the 49ers-Saints game, even though the Jets are home... late game is junk....Chargers @ Jacksonville.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> Fox gave NY the 49ers-Saints game, even though the Jets are home... late game is junk....Chargers @ Jacksonville.


but they got permission from the NFL and the Jets to allow that...normally it wouldn't have been allowed as the Jets are at home


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I think it's more along the lines of, the "best" game on the doubleheader network tends to be its second game, so the singleheader network doesn't have to have too many of its stations show its one game that day at the same time.
> 
> If I am reading the schedule correctly, the only late singleheader games that were not in the Pacific or Mountain time zones (so they couldn't be early games, as they would have to start before noon local time) so far have been Giants-Buccaneers in week 3 and Chargers-Titans in week 7.


And this week, Don, all 3 of those are on CBS. And there's a pretty good chance that one of those games delays _60 Minutes_.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> And this week, Don, all 3 of those are on CBS. And there's a pretty good chance that one of those games delays _60 Minutes_.


Biggest one is MN/Chargers since it goes to pretty much all of NFC North Country + Charlotte, Philly and DC

IIRC CBS does not show bonus coverage so there may be 4 CBS feeds out there if the games end at random times.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

danderson400 said:


> And this week, Don, all 3 of those are on CBS. And there's a pretty good chance that one of those games delays _60 Minutes_.


I've given up on 60 Minutes. Now that Madam Secretary is finished, the only CBS show I have to pad on Sunday is NCIS Los Angles.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

60 Minutes will be the only show I pad now. This past weekend here in NY it was a Fox DH so no overruns as Fox doesn't normally schedule so tightly on Sunday nights


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

unclehonkey said:


> IIRC CBS does not show bonus coverage so there may be 4 CBS feeds out there if the games end at random times.


it ended up being 3 feeds as 2 games ended real close on time
The on time feed (for folks who got an early game)
Vikes game and Cleveland/AZ game ran 10 minutes long
Jax/Oakland game ran 15 minutes long


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Did any East Coast cities get the Oakland @ Denver game? when i checked, at 7:30, CBS was showing 60 Minutes. If that game was only seen out West, that would make sense.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Did any East Coast cities get the Oakland @ Denver game? when i checked, at 7:30, CBS was showing 60 Minutes. If that game was only seen out West, that would make sense.


We had the Baltimore-Pittsburgh game here in NYC Metro. I don't know if they switched to the Oakland game as I was watching the Fox game, but yes, 60 Minutes started on time.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

They did not switch games here in Maryland. Oakland game was still playing when 60 Minutes started.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> Did any East Coast cities get the Oakland @ Denver game? when i checked, at 7:30, CBS was showing 60 Minutes. If that game was only seen out West, that would make sense.


None of the East Coast
The only market in the Central time zone that had the game was KELO Sioux Falls, SD. Everyone else was Mountain or Pacific
The other 3 games ended on time and went to 60 minutes (the Tenn/Houston game had a postgame as it ended about 8 minutes before 6:30 CST)


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## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

Steveknj said:


> We had the Baltimore-Pittsburgh game here in NYC Metro. I don't know if they switched to the Oakland game as I was watching the Fox game, but yes, 60 Minutes started on time.


60 minutes (and prime time) was running 3 minutes late in Philly.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DVR_Dave said:


> 60 minutes (and prime time) was running 3 minutes late in Philly.


It might have been 3 minutes late, I don't know. I know my recording seems to go off on time, but there were a few commercials ahead of the opening bumper (heaven forbid CBS should skip a couple of commercials to have the shows go off on time!)


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Could this be a new trend, similar to when networks started listing back-to-back episodes of a show in a single block, presumably so single-tuner TiVos in the days before overlap protection wouldn't choose one episode over the other?

Fox allocated 90 minutes for the premiere of _9-1-1: Lone Star_ after the Packers-49ers game, even though the episode ran the normal hour length. I am assuming it was done this way so DVRs would pick up the entire episode even if the game and postgame show ran up to 30 minutes past the scheduled end.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I have been keeping an eye on late Simpsons starts for years, and the record for the Eastern/Central time zones for unplanned delays seems to be 90 minutes, but in that instance, it was a repeat. The record for a first-run episode appears to be 42 minutes. Both times, the culprit was a NASCAR rain delay.


The lions-cardinals game last year came pretty close- 30 minutes.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> There's a "history" about this...ever since the "Heidi Bowl" way back in 1968 (NBC cut away from its broadcast of a Raiders-Jets game with about 2 minutes left to air the movie _Heidi_, only for the Raiders to score two touchdowns and win), networks have made it a point not to interrupt football for anything except when they had to; the last time I remember any network doing this was something like 30 years ago, when NBC had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game. (When CBS interrupted a golf tournament in a playoff to air _60 Minutes_ on time, so many people (as well as Sports Illustrated) complained that CBS quickly announced that its "no interruption" policy would apply to golf as well.)
> 
> Because NFL games get much better ratings than anything the networks normally show on Sundays, the coverage leaks past 7:00 Eastern so the overrun counts toward that night's ratings. Because of this, when a game ends, the network will switch to another game still in progress, and keep doing this until all of its games have ended. In 2000 or so, Fox and CBS asked the NFL to change the start times of the second games of doubleheaders from 4:05 to 4:15 (because too many 1:00 games were running past 4:05), thus pretty much making sure TV coverage would run until at least 7:30. When too many games were running well past 7:30 (ever hear the story about the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year?), Fox stopped trying to program the time slot and added its current postgame show, _The OT_, to pad the time until 8:00.


I've read about something similar with a golf event on NBC and "Silver Spoons" and "Punky Brewster" in the 80s, and there were just as many complaints, switchboard operators in New York responded to about 1,100 complaints; another 686 such calls were received in Chicago, 250 in Cleveland and 220 in Washington, D.C. So NBC decided to adopt the same policy as CBS, even if that meant "Silver Spoons" and "Punky Brewster" were preempted. NBC does sometimes use The Golf Channel if a lengthy delay occurs.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> That's why I said, "_locally_ pre-empted." If a Fox show is nationally pre-empted, the usual procedure is, if it is a new episode, a repeat of the same series airs in the west, and if it is a repeat, the repeat airs as scheduled in the west. Nothing new about this; I remember a case (in 2002, I think) when Fox had scheduled a repeat of a two-part _King of the Hill_ episode for 7:30 and 8:30, with a _The Simpsons_ repeat at 8:00, but it was a Fox NFL doubleheader day (back when late games started at 4:15 and Fox assumed its coverage would usually be over by 7:30), and the football ran until 8:00, so in the east, Fox aired the Simpsons episode and the second part of the KOTH two-parter as planned.


I've had preemptions occur in my area, usually for ACC basketball(which is big in North Carolinia) or Billy Graham. Back then, i had a big satellite dish, so i could see the network show on the network feed.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> There's a "history" about this...ever since the "Heidi Bowl" way back in 1968 (NBC cut away from its broadcast of a Raiders-Jets game with about 2 minutes left to air the movie _Heidi_, only for the Raiders to score two touchdowns and win), networks have made it a point not to interrupt football for anything except when they had to; the last time I remember any network doing this was something like 30 years ago, when NBC had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game. (When CBS interrupted a golf tournament in a playoff to air _60 Minutes_ on time, so many people (as well as Sports Illustrated) complained that CBS quickly announced that its "no interruption" policy would apply to golf as well.)
> 
> Because NFL games get much better ratings than anything the networks normally show on Sundays, the coverage leaks past 7:00 Eastern so the overrun counts toward that night's ratings. Because of this, when a game ends, the network will switch to another game still in progress, and keep doing this until all of its games have ended. In 2000 or so, Fox and CBS asked the NFL to change the start times of the second games of doubleheaders from 4:05 to 4:15 (because too many 1:00 games were running past 4:05), thus pretty much making sure TV coverage would run until at least 7:30. When too many games were running well past 7:30 (ever hear the story about the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year?), Fox stopped trying to program the time slot and added its current postgame show, _The OT_, to pad the time until 8:00.


 You mention NBC, and i don't remember them ever having to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game. If i remember, they just scheduled a buffer for the NFL game.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> CBS has to cue up the late game to the affiliates carrying it so they give a 2 minute buffer of commercials.
> 
> CBS & FOX have their own rules when it comes to the late game if in bonus coverage
> CBS will continue to show it before moving us to the late game (exception is the local markets of the teams playing the late game)
> FOX uses the "due to NFL rules" BS line and dumps us to the late game. They did it two weeks ago


FOX doesn't always pull the "due to NFL rules" BS line and dumps us to the late game. Look at week 17 last year, Packers-Lions. FOX stayed with that game. I'm still mad at them for not dumping Rams/Cowboys for Falcons-49ers last year.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> FOX doesn't always pull the "due to NFL rules" BS line and dumps us to the late game. Look at week 17 last year, Packers-Lions. FOX stayed with that game. I'm still mad at them for not dumping Rams/Cowboys for Falcons-49ers last year.


Dude really? You bring up a post from 2 years ago...THINGS CHANGE!

2 years ago there was a hard rule for blackouts (if your team was at home in the primary market no game can go against that)...that rule changed last year
The "we must cut away" rule for bonus coverage...that changed last year
FOX wont cut away from a Dal-ASS game regardless of score...oh wait that didnt change


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

unclehonkey said:


> Dude really? You bring up a post from 2 years ago...THINGS CHANGE!
> 
> 2 years ago there was a hard rule for blackouts (if your team was at home in the primary market no game can go against that)...that rule changed last year
> The "we must cut away" rule for bonus coverage...that changed last year
> FOX wont cut away from a Dal-ASS game regardless of score...oh wait that didnt change


While I don't like the Cowboys either, that's probably more perception on your part than anything. I'd be willing to bet they've cut away from Cowboys games and games from any other team.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> While I don't like the Cowboys either, that's probably more perception on your part than anything. I'd be willing to bet they've cut away from Cowboys games and games from any other team.


nope. Last year when they were blowing out the Rams FOX refused to change to a "more competitive game" when there was one available. Its well documented at another site (of which I am a member there too)


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

unclehonkey said:


> nope. Last year when they were blowing out the Rams FOX refused to change to a "more competitive game" when there was one available. Its well documented at another site (of which I am a member there too)


So you cite ONE example, are there others? Was it a late game or early one? Networks are more likely to stay with their A game no matter what happens in other games (i.e. this is the Buck-Aikman game). And lets face it, no matter how much we might dislike them, the Cowboys are the number one team in the country, like the Yankees in baseball, Man U in soccer, the Lakers (or whatever team the best player is on in the NBA. It has little to do with the Cowboys per se and has everything to do with the number of eyeballs watching. I'd be willing to bet that the Cowboys generally draw better ratings than other teams. It's why no matter how bad they are they are NEVER left off the prime time schedule while other teams are.

Do you have other examples of them not switching from Dallas blowout games when there is a competitive Fox game to switch to nationally?


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> So you cite ONE example, are there others?


it only takes one game to make a point. The other late game was Atlanta @ San Fran which was very competitive and ended up 29-22 Atlanta (Atlanta scored with :02 left and then the kickoff San Fran fumbled and Atlanta scored again). Meanwhile it was 44-21 and not even close.

The point I was making was more the fact that danderson400, 600, 300 (he has multiple user names at different sites) drudged up a 2 year old post to make a statement of "FOX doesn't always pull the "due to NFL rules" BS line and dumps us to the late game" and then cited an example of last year

The only thing we both agreed on is "I'm still mad at them for not dumping Rams/Cowboys for Falcons-49ers last year."


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm looking at my clock, and the Chargers-Bengals game wont be over before 7. So 60 Minutes will be delayed until that game finishes.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I'm looking at my clock, and the Chargers-Bengals game wont be over before 7. So 60 Minutes will be delayed until that game finishes.


Only in the cities that aired that game. It wasn't a CBS doubleheader day.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I'm looking at my clock, and the Chargers-Bengals game wont be over before 7. So 60 Minutes will be delayed until that game finishes.


60 Minutes started at 7PM here, no issues.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> 60 Minutes started at 7PM here, no issues.


same here.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> I'm looking at my clock, and the Chargers-Bengals game wont be over before 7. So 60 Minutes will be delayed until that game finishes.


and that is why there is this really neat post in the "Season Pass Alerts" where its noted when 60 minutes runs late
Urgent Pad Recording Alerts (EAST)


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> Dude really? You bring up a post from 2 years ago...THINGS CHANGE!
> 
> 2 years ago there was a hard rule for blackouts (if your team was at home in the primary market no game can go against that)...that rule changed last year
> The "we must cut away" rule for bonus coverage...that changed last year
> FOX wont cut away from a Dal-ASS game regardless of score...oh wait that didnt change


Not having the "we must cut away" rule for bonus coverage helped Fox last week...likely the game of the year so far(Atlanta-Dallas).....aired in every market that didn't have the late game(Redskins-Cardinals)....


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Steelers-Titans could be postponed, so..How does the NFL handle this?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Steelers-Titans could be postponed, so..How does the NFL handle this?


I think the plan is to move them to MNF. Because, you know, there's no way the NFL gives up any money.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

It will be interesting to see how CBS handles The Masters if it runs late into the NFL.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

danderson400 said:


> It will be interesting to see how CBS handles The Masters if it runs late into the NFL.


The Masters should be over by 2:30 ET. It would have to be a long playoff not to be done by 4:00. If it happens, I'll bet they stick with golf.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> Fox has had to do enough shuffling of its Sunday schedule thanks to that O.J. Simpson interview in March on top of not programming against the Olympics, the Oscars, the Super Bowl, or the Grammys. It doesn't have any more leeway with its schedule; in fact, _The Simpsons_ will probably end the season one episode short. I have a feeling that, if the race is still on at 7 Eastern, Fox will decide if it thinks the race will end in time so the entire Sunday schedule, not counting the repeat at 7, can air, and if not, it will switch over to FS1 by 7:30.
> 
> At least it hasn't switched to a 4-hole playoff like the PGA or (British) Open Championship...yet.
> 
> However, they're not about to get rid of the green jacket ceremony, any more than they would get rid of "One Shining Moment" at the end of the NCAA men's college basketball tournament. Besides, traditionally the defending champion puts the jacket on the new champion, and you know they'll ask Sergio about putting five straight shots into the water on the same hole...


I feel like CBS will get rid of the green jacket ceremony this year, in order to get to NFL coverage sooner, in the event of a rain delay.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Did i hear this right...CBS is going to switch from the Masters to the Bills/Cardinals game even if the golf isn't done at 4pm, and the golf is going to switch to ABC?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

danderson400 said:


> Did i hear this right...CBS is going to switch from the Masters to the Bills/Cardinals game even if the golf isn't done at 4pm, and the golf is going to switch to ABC?


I haven't heard anything about that... but... today, there was a three hour delay due to weather. If something similar happens Sunday morning, the Masters could easily get pushed out enough to overlap the NFL game by quite a bit. No idea what CBS would do.

From the cbs master website


> TV coverage: 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. on CBS
> TV simulcast live stream: 10-3 p.m. on CBS Sports App*, CBS All Access*, Masters.com
> _* Authentication required on the mobile app or connected devices_


Maybe tell people to see it on the web? Maybe have it free on Masters.com? Don't know.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Would it be a reach to think the NFL might delay kickoff by 15 to 30 minutes if golf was running a little over and the outcome wasn't certain.

NFL likes to cooperate with their TV partners


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

CBS got lucky that the Masters ended on time.

Of course the Bills/Cardinals game topped that.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

This isn't quite "skipping a show," but I didn't learn this until today:
If it's a Fox doubleheader day and CBS has multiple games starting at 4:05 ("usually," it's not more than two, but yesterday was a special case because of The Masters), when a game on CBS ends, the stations showing that game cannot switch to another game unless all of the games on Fox have already ended, which is almost impossible as they started 20 minutes later. The same goes for Fox 4:05 games on a CBS doubleheader day.

Also, apparently (I am not entirely sure about this one), CBS only has the ability to air three separate feeds to the Eastern/Central time zones; its "on time" one, and two "delayed by football" ones.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Why was Houston @ Cleveland a FOX game?


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> Why was Houston @ Cleveland a FOX game?


because it was an early game and CBS didnt have any early games

Also its called cross flexing. Been done many times since 2016. Nothing new. This past week had 3 of them all on FOX. Last week we had 2. Again its to balance the workload for both networks.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm still getting used to the idea of a AFC game on FOX. If Fox has three great NFC games, and CBS has a less attractive slate of AFC games, that’s not good for CBS. But it’s not good for the league, either, because at least one of those three Fox games is going to be broadcast to only a small slice of the country.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

It still seems weird to me to see 2 teams from the same conference on the opposite network. I guess it's just not that strict anymore.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> It still seems weird to me to see 2 teams from the same conference on the opposite network. I guess it's just not that strict anymore.


its been going on for 7 years now (since 2014 season)
In the 2014 NFL season, a related policy known as "cross-flexing" became available, where games can now be swapped between CBS and Fox, regardless of conference, *in order to improve balance between the two networks, and expand the distribution of noteworthy games.*

There have been 12 crossflexed games so far this season


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

unclehonkey said:


> its been going on for 7 years now (since 2014 season)
> In the 2014 NFL season, a related policy known as "cross-flexing" became available, where games can now be swapped between CBS and Fox, regardless of conference, *in order to improve balance between the two networks, and expand the distribution of noteworthy games.*
> 
> There have been 12 crossflexed games so far this season


I'm aware of the policy, but there seems to be much more off-conference broadcasts this year than other years, almost to the point where it just doesn't matter if it's an NFC or AFC game anymore.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

There were 22 last season including 5 on week 3 alone. Note that a fair amount of the games were a AFC team vs a NFC team but the old "road teams network" rule was thrown out.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> There were 22 last season including 5 on week 3 alone. Note that a fair amount of the games were a AFC team vs a NFC team but the old "road teams network" rule was thrown out.


Correct. Falcons/Colts which would be a FOX game was on CBS. It aired in Indiana, Illinois, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, East Texas, Tenn, SC, NC and Ky including Atlanta, Indy, Nashville, Birmingham, Tampa and Charlotte. FOX would have had too many games and would have used someone like Gus Johnson or Tim Brando on that game. Didn't CBS once have 9 games in 2003, and had to use Bill Macatee on one game?


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

danderson400 said:


> Didn't CBS once have 9 games in 2003, and had to use Bill Macatee on one game?


Are you seriously expecting someone other than you to remember that?


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> Correct. Falcons/Colts which would be a FOX game was on CBS. It aired in Indiana, Illinois, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, East Texas, Tenn, SC, NC and Ky including Atlanta, Indy, Nashville, Birmingham, Tampa and Charlotte. FOX would have had too many games and would have used someone like Gus Johnson or Tim Brando on that game. Didn't CBS once have 9 games in 2003, and had to use Bill Macatee on one game?


WTF are you talking about? I was talking about last week not some random week in 2015
And as to your last question you already know the answer or can easily find it



lambertman said:


> Are you seriously expecting someone other than you to remember that?


Thats par for the course for danderson400, 500, 600, 666 (he uses multiple user names at different sites). He'll ask some random question that he knows the answer to or can easily look it up. 
Great example...he'll post a couple times a year at numerous sites why Charlotte carried a CBS late game on a particular week but CBS Greenville/Ashville carried the early game. The answer? Carolina is at home on FOX on DH network so no game can be shown same time on the Singleheader network (as is the case this week)


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

unclehonkey said:


> Great example...he'll post a couple times a year at numerous sites why Charlotte carried a CBS late game on a particular week but CBS Greenville/Ashville carried the early game. The answer? Carolina is at home on FOX on DH network so no game can be shown same time on the Singleheader network (as is the case this week)


"Can't", or, "They're smart enough not to air the one game it gets at the same time as the local team's game on Fox?" Going by the maps at 506, it appears that the rule that if one station has the home market team playing a home game, the other can't show any game at all is no longer enforced.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

That Don Guy said:


> "Can't", or, "They're smart enough not to air the one game it gets at the same time as the local team's game on Fox?" Going by the maps at 506, it appears that the rule that if one station has the home market team playing a home game, the other can't show any game at all is no longer enforced.


The rule is still enforced. If the local team is at home on the doubleheader network (in this week FOX) the singleheader network MUST show a game in the opposite timeslot in the PRIMARY market of said team.
If the team is on the road they aren't forced to but most markets will.
outside of the primary market you can (Mankato as example has shown 4 early games on the SH network against a Vikes home game including week 1)

So this week FOX has the DH
New Orleans, Charlotte and Cleveland MUST show a late CBS game (and they are) as they are the home teams
Atlanta, Philly and Detroit are the road teams so its not required...but all 3 are showing a late game to not go against the local team

There use to be a rule that if a team was at home on the singleheader network no game could be shown against it on the other network (known as the lost DH). That rule has been relaxed. Otherwise Baltimore, Jacksonville, Houston, and Washington DC would not have a early FOX game and Denver and LA would not have a late FOX game

LA and NY have different rules due to having 2 teams in the market.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> This isn't quite "skipping a show," but I didn't learn this until today:
> If it's a Fox doubleheader day and CBS has multiple games starting at 4:05 ("usually," it's not more than two, but yesterday was a special case because of The Masters), when a game on CBS ends, the stations showing that game cannot switch to another game unless all of the games on Fox have already ended, which is almost impossible as they started 20 minutes later. The same goes for Fox 4:05 games on a CBS doubleheader day.
> 
> Also, apparently (I am not entirely sure about this one), CBS only has the ability to air three separate feeds to the Eastern/Central time zones; its "on time" one, and two "delayed by football" ones.


Debunked in that Fox switched to 49ers-Rams when Saints-Broncos was a blowout. I thought the stations showing that game cannot switch to another game unless all of the games on CBS was over.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> Debunked in that Fox switched to 49ers-Rams when Saints-Broncos was a blowout. I thought the stations showing that game cannot switch to another game unless all of the games on CBS was over.


I don't think that applies to switching games in the middle of a game.

Also, the NFL apparently tried an experiment last season, where each team has to allow the DH network to air a game in its home market at the same time as the local team's home game on the non-DH station on at least two weekends. Apparently, the rule is in effect this season as well.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> Debunked in that Fox switched to 49ers-Rams when Saints-Broncos was a blowout. I thought the stations showing that game cannot switch to another game unless all of the games on CBS was over.


they (FOX) used the "blowout rule" where they can switch to a more competitive game which they can do. 
When Denver game got over (around 10 minutes to top of the hour) they went to the studio for filler and then started FOX Sunday night programming at correct time. The markets that kept Denver/Saints the whole time could not go to SF/LA as bonus coverage
Folks who ended up with SF/LA due to the blowout rule Simpsons rerun was JIP'd as game got over about :15 after the hour


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

That Don Guy said:


> I don't think that applies to switching games in the middle of a game.


correct


> Also, the NFL apparently tried an experiment last season, where each team has to allow the DH network to air a game in its home market at the same time as the local team's home game on the non-DH station on at least two weekends. Apparently, the rule is in effect this season as well.


this year it went to 4 games and there has only been two times so far this year when that happened
-week 6 Miami was on CBS late and GB/TB was the national GOTW. Miami could not show it
-yesterday Denver could not show KC/TB

The reason both of these were given had to do with NFL ST and apparently when a Sunday afternoon game is nationwide one market gets "shut out" so NFL ST can count that game (they have to meet a minimum amount apparently). The options were Denver or LA and no way the #2 market was going to lose out on that.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> correct
> 
> this year it went to 4 games and there has only been two times so far this year when that happened
> -week 6 Miami was on CBS late and GB/TB was the national GOTW. Miami could not show it
> ...


Just like what's happening with the Steelers game. Fox would want it national, but DirecTV wants NFL ST to show it so it can count that game (they have to meet a minimum amount apparently). However, DirecTV is actually making it available to all subscribers on the Sunday Ticket channel (712), even if they don't subscribe to Sunday Ticket.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

danderson400 said:


> Just like what's happening with the Steelers game. Fox would want it national, but DirecTV wants NFL ST to show it so it can count that game (they have to meet a minimum amount apparently). However, DirecTV is actually making it available to all subscribers on the Sunday Ticket channel (712), even if they don't subscribe to Sunday Ticket.


The game was never national. FOX knew it was going to be regional mid last week

and yes as I already said NFL ST has a minimum number of game requirement. Dont know why you felt the need to repeat what I said


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

I can't ever recall this happening but Dolly Parton announced her show would be on at 8:30, 7:30 Central, 8:00 Pacific. It never occurred to me that people out West would see these shows at their normal time.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

HarleyRandom said:


> I can't ever recall this happening but Dolly Parton announced her show would be on at 8:30, 7:30 Central, 8:00 Pacific. It never occurred to me that people out West would see these shows at their normal time.


When they say, as they have said for decades, "Stay tuned for '60 Minutes,' immediately following the game, except on the West Coast"... what they mean is that "60 Minutes" doesn't immediately follow the game on the West Coast (because it airs at 7:00 P.M. Pacific).


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

trainman said:


> When they say, as they have said for decades, "Stay tuned for '60 Minutes,' immediately following the game, except on the West Coast"... what they mean is that "60 Minutes" doesn't immediately follow the game on the West Coast (because it airs at 7:00 P.M. Pacific).


Yeah, I've heard that many times, but when they (anyone) advertise the specific time of a show, they say something like "8/7 Central". Occasionally it is live everywhere so they have all four mainland time zones.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> There's a "history" about this...ever since the "Heidi Bowl" way back in 1968 (NBC cut away from its broadcast of a Raiders-Jets game with about 2 minutes left to air the movie _Heidi_, only for the Raiders to score two touchdowns and win), networks have made it a point not to interrupt football for anything except when they had to; the last time I remember any network doing this was something like 30 years ago, when NBC had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game. (When CBS interrupted a golf tournament in a playoff to air _60 Minutes_ on time, so many people (as well as Sports Illustrated) complained that CBS quickly announced that its "no interruption" policy would apply to golf as well.)
> 
> Because NFL games get much better ratings than anything the networks normally show on Sundays, the coverage leaks past 7:00 Eastern so the overrun counts toward that night's ratings. Because of this, when a game ends, the network will switch to another game still in progress, and keep doing this until all of its games have ended. In 2000 or so, Fox and CBS asked the NFL to change the start times of the second games of doubleheaders from 4:05 to 4:15 (because too many 1:00 games were running past 4:05), thus pretty much making sure TV coverage would run until at least 7:30. When too many games were running well past 7:30 (ever hear the story about the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year?), Fox stopped trying to program the time slot and added its current postgame show, _The OT_, to pad the time until 8:00.


So..you say that NBC once had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game, i thought that NBC would be contractually obligated to show the NFL game to conclusion.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> So..you say that NBC once had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game, i thought that NBC would be contractually obligated to show the NFL game to conclusion.


I don't think that requirement existed when this happened - otherwise, NBC wouldn't have cut away from the game to air its normal news program.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Correct, although i remember many times when NBC's NBA coverage often resulted in it's national news being either preempted or shortened. I remember in 1992, NBC adding a playoff game (believe it was Bulls-Knicks) due to the LA riots, so they simply scheduled that game for prime time that way, NBC could show its national news and still air 3 games that day. I think it was scheduled for 8pm, in order not to break the "Family Hour" rule, as I remember watching "Life Goes On" on ABC at 7:00 then the NBA game on NBC at 8.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Personally, i think a overrun is a issue only if the network shows the 7:00-8:00 schedule in its entirety. I know from past experience, with one show, _Mad About You_ during the 1995 NFL season. It seemed to start 8pm ET everytime I checked on it(after Colts-Jets week 2, Jaguars-Oilers week 5, Colts-Dolphins week 6 and Steelers-Bears(can't remember the week). However, Minor Adjustments(the show that aired directly after games in 95) seemed to be preempted a lot.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> I don't think that requirement existed when this happened - otherwise, NBC wouldn't have cut away from the game to air its normal news program.


I seem to remember once, when NBC had the NBA rights them switching to a Pistons-Timberwloves game for bonus coverage rather than going to Nightly News. And the game lasted so long, that Nightly News was preempted. And how many times i remember Jay Leno being delayed for Conference Finals/NBA Finals games too.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

Here's what i mean when i say "constant and flex" this is from the Chiefs-Giants game in 2017. Note: the dark blue area would stay with this game, even if it's a blowout. The other map shows from the same week, Patriots-Raiders and Bengals-Broncos. Note the dark and deep orange areas- that's the "mandatory pullout" areas.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> There's a "history" about this...ever since the "Heidi Bowl" way back in 1968 (NBC cut away from its broadcast of a Raiders-Jets game with about 2 minutes left to air the movie _Heidi_, only for the Raiders to score two touchdowns and win), networks have made it a point not to interrupt football for anything except when they had to; the last time I remember any network doing this was something like 30 years ago, when NBC had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game. (When CBS interrupted a golf tournament in a playoff to air _60 Minutes_ on time, so many people (as well as Sports Illustrated) complained that CBS quickly announced that its "no interruption" policy would apply to golf as well.)
> 
> Because NFL games get much better ratings than anything the networks normally show on Sundays, the coverage leaks past 7:00 Eastern so the overrun counts toward that night's ratings. Because of this, when a game ends, the network will switch to another game still in progress, and keep doing this until all of its games have ended. In 2000 or so, Fox and CBS asked the NFL to change the start times of the second games of doubleheaders from 4:05 to 4:15 (because too many 1:00 games were running past 4:05), thus pretty much making sure TV coverage would run until at least 7:30. When too many games were running well past 7:30 (ever hear the story about the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year?), Fox stopped trying to program the time slot and added its current postgame show, _The OT_, to pad the time until 8:00.


NBC did this once, because the game(Chargers-Rams) was such a blowout, NBC broke away to begin _The Wonderful World Of Disney_ on time. I think only the West Coast saw the game to the end (since the game was only cutting into local programming, rather than Disney). I remember NBC once having to to interrupt an NFL game because President Bush was giving a speech; this caused the game to be delayed. I was watching the backhaul(back when you could watch those feeds on satellite) and there was a lot of standing around, waiting for Bush to finish his speech and for Tom Brokaw to do the wrap up. It messed NBC's schedule that night, even messing up the premiere of _Dark Shadows_(the 1991 revival of the ABC soap opera). I don't think the local news came on till midnight that night. I think it was a playoff game in Buffalo between the Bills and Dolphins.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I was surprised that CBS stayed with Golf rather than cut to _60 Minutes_.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

CBS has been doing this for decades. It's nothing new. That's why any show that I record that airs on Sunday night in prime time gets expanded to two hours to make sure I get the entire show. 

I can't believe this thread has been going on for 26 pages. This is what CBS does. It's never going to change. They have exclusive rights to certain sports programs and they will air them to completion since they are live events. Any network shows scheduled to air in prime time are all recorded so they can show them at any time. This is why I stopped watching 60 minutes and a host of other shows on Sunday nights on CBS. If they don't want to conform to my recording schedule then I will simply find something else to watch.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> CBS has been doing this for decades. It's nothing new. That's why any show that I record that airs on Sunday night in prime time gets expanded to two hours to make sure I get the entire show.
> 
> I can't believe this thread has been going on for 26 pages. This is what CBS does. It's never going to change. They have exclusive rights to certain sports programs and they will air them to completion since they are live events. Any network shows scheduled to air in prime time are all recorded so they can show them at any time. This is why I stopped watching 60 minutes and a host of other shows on Sunday nights on CBS. If they don't want to conform to my recording schedule then I will simply find something else to watch.


Or rather than doing that, just pad the whole Sunday night lineup, or pad whatever shows you always watch. That's what I do. if I didn't do that, I'd have missed out on The Good Wife!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Or just don't watch CBS shows that air on Sunday night...which has been my plan for many years now.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I was surprised that CBS stayed with Golf rather than cut to _60 Minutes_.


I'm not


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or just don't watch CBS shows that air on Sunday night...which has been my plan for many years now.


Is that just a protest on the overruns or just because there's crap on CBS? To me it's just not really a hassle. I just pad each show an hour and that works 99% of the time. So it takes me about 30 seconds sometimes to have to FF through the end of the game. Like I said, I'd have missed one of my favorite shows of the last decade if I just skipped the shows.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Is that just a protest on the overruns or just because there's crap on CBS? To me it's just not really a hassle. I just pad each show an hour and that works 99% of the time. So it takes me about 30 seconds sometimes to have to FF through the end of the game. Like I said, I'd have missed one of my favorite shows of the last decade if I just skipped the shows.


I figure CBS clearly doesn't want me (or rather, people like me) watching their Sunday Night shows. So I'm happy to oblige them. There's too much to watch, anyway.

And frankly, it's no big loss. I currently have exactly one 1P for all four of the major broadcast networks. Which wouldn't become any bigger a number if I started watching CBS Sunday shows.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

It's one of the small advantages of being in Canada. The Canadian stations air the same program, but because they don't do sports, it starts and stops on time. If you can get the Canadian stations (Global, CTV, City), it's an option. The only thing is finding which station carries it - each station licenses shows on a per-series basis, so CBS programming will be spread across the three networks.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Worf said:


> It's one of the small advantages of being in Canada. The Canadian stations air the same program, but because they don't do sports, it starts and stops on time. If you can get the Canadian stations (Global, CTV, City), it's an option. The only thing is finding which station carries it - each station licenses shows on a per-series basis, so CBS programming will be spread across the three networks.


I enjoyed "Saving Hope" on CTV but once NBC stopped airing their episodes I had to rely on someone to tell me about illegal videos. Usually they had something weird about the sound or the way things looked. That way they weren't technically violating copyright. But in the corner you could see what other U.S. shows aired on CTV.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

HarleyRandom said:


> That way they weren't technically violating copyright.


They are very much violating copyright.

They're just fooling the bots that try to automatically enforce it.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

CBS was sweating out the Tennessee @ Seattle game last night, because if it had ran any longer, they would have delayed the Emmys.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> There's a "history" about this...ever since the "Heidi Bowl" way back in 1968 (NBC cut away from its broadcast of a Raiders-Jets game with about 2 minutes left to air the movie _Heidi_, only for the Raiders to score two touchdowns and win), networks have made it a point not to interrupt football for anything except when they had to; the last time I remember any network doing this was something like 30 years ago, when NBC had to interrupt an NFL game in overtime because it had to show its national news before a World Series game. (When CBS interrupted a golf tournament in a playoff to air _60 Minutes_ on time, so many people (as well as Sports Illustrated) complained that CBS quickly announced that its "no interruption" policy would apply to golf as well.)
> 
> Because NFL games get much better ratings than anything the networks normally show on Sundays, the coverage leaks past 7:00 Eastern so the overrun counts toward that night's ratings. Because of this, when a game ends, the network will switch to another game still in progress, and keep doing this until all of its games have ended. In 2000 or so, Fox and CBS asked the NFL to change the start times of the second games of doubleheaders from 4:05 to 4:15 (because too many 1:00 games were running past 4:05), thus pretty much making sure TV coverage would run until at least 7:30. When too many games were running well past 7:30 (ever hear the story about the _King of the Hill_ Thanksgiving episode that was delayed for an entire year?), Fox stopped trying to program the time slot and added its current postgame show, _The OT_, to pad the time until 8:00.


I wonder if CBS would have invoked its "no interruption" policy for the Titans-Seahawks game last night, with the Emmys scheduled to follow.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> I wonder if CBS would have invoked its "no interruption" policy for the Titans-Seahawks game last night, with the Emmys scheduled to follow.


This actually happened to CBS a few years ago, and it did delay the start of the Emmys. If worse came to worse, the producers could have cut the opening number and/or some of the comedy bits. (They _could_ also shuffle the schedule to give the "less popular" awards first - how many viewers really care who wins Directing for a Limited/Narrative Series/Movie? - but that is a last resort.)

The other problem, at least in CBS's case, with having a "short" ceremony is, it is repeated at 8 PM Pacific in the west, so the repeat would end early and it would need to fill the remaining time.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

I doubt they would have cut the opening number and/or some of the comedy bits because the Tennessee @ Seattle game went to overtime. They didn't do that in 2013 when the Buffalo @ NY Jets game ran late, so i don't see why they'd cut something from the Emmys. *That would almost surely piss off the television academy, so i doubt they'd do that*.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

That Don Guy said:


> This actually happened to CBS a few years ago, and it did delay the start of the Emmys. If worse came to worse, the producers could have cut the opening number and/or some of the comedy bits. (They _could_ also shuffle the schedule to give the "less popular" awards first - how many viewers really care who wins Directing for a Limited/Narrative Series/Movie? - but that is a last resort.)
> 
> The other problem, at least in CBS's case, with having a "short" ceremony is, it is repeated at 8 PM Pacific in the west, so the repeat would end early and it would need to fill the remaining time.


Kind of like what happened two weeks ago when the Broadway special was delayed by the Dolphins-Raiders game, but only in 20% of the country. But still, it only takes one overtime to ruin the night's schedule. Like if the Chicago @ Las Vegas game was a blowout, and CBS elected to switch that audience to the Cleveland @ LA Chargers game, and it went to overtime, that would ruin the evenings lineup for about 35% of the country.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

CBS has had Hallmark-type movies the past two weeks, and I love those.

I was under the impression the show scheduled for 10 still aired two weeks ago (we were told several times), but when I was looking at the ratings to see what shows were most watched, there wasn't anything listed after the movie.


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