# Need Advice on Possible HR10-250 Swap



## markedcw (May 22, 2004)

We're a longtime Tivo household. Have had a Series 1 since 2000. Have had DirecTV and an HR10-250 in the living room since 2004. We own the HR10-250, bought it at full price the week it was released. We live in a condo and the MDU contractor has been dragging his feet with the dish upgrade. The complex was wired during construction by the local cable company so there's only one coax line from the utility room into each unit. As a result, our MDU guy could only give us a single input for the Tivo; we can't have DirecTV on the other TVs in the house either. We have a Tivo HD for OTA and internet streams/downloads in the bedroom.

Our MDU contractor now claims he will swap the common dish next week. So I called DirecTV and they are sending one of the new DVRs as a free "upgrade." The only requirement was agreeing to a new two-year commitment. However, I'm having second thoughts. 

I was already iffy about the swap because of the horrid experiences I've seen people reporting with the DirecTV HR2x units. Talking it through with my spouse last night, I explained that we'd need to switch out the Tivo in the living room. He became apprehensive. He uses Tivo extensively. We currently have 51 Season Passes/Wishlists on the HR10 and rarely watch live TV. He doesn't want to recreate the setup or lose the programs stored on the Tivo. He asked if we couldn't just keep things as is. I explained that we're going to lose more HD channels soon. We had the LA HD feeds and he was irritated when those went away. Then he surprised me by saying he didn't want to change. He wants to keep the Tivo as SD only. After thinking about it, he makes sense. The only HD DirecTV channels we record are HBO and Showtime. We'd still have them in SD so it's not like losing the LA feeds when the channels went away completely. We also have a PS3 and Apple TV hooked up to the living room HDTV so we can get HD content when we need it. Now I'm wondering what to do. 

Option 1-Replace the HR10-250 with the DirecTV DVR and hope for the best.

Option 2-Return the unopened DirecTV DVR when it arrives and reject the two-year commitment. We could keep using the HR10-250 for the foreseeable future for SD DirecTV and HD OTA then swap when/if a new DirecTivo HD is released.

Option 3-Return the DirecTV DVR and drop DirecTV completely. Order Comcast and move the Tivo HD to the living room. We'd only have a standard cable box with on demand in the bedroom but that's probably okay. By the time we add the surcharge from our MDU, the monthly bill for each service is within a few dollars of the other.

I'm particularly interested in hearing from former HR10-250 owners that switched to the HR2x. Would you do it again or do you regret making swap? I hope this doesn't turn into thread when the evangelicals from each side debate arcane tech trivia. Thanks.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

depends on what MDU method the contracter is using, if they are going to forklift the install and go with SWM then the HR10-250 will not even work on that installation since it is not compatible. 

You need to verify with the contracter what they are installing. What every you do, get more details from the contractor before you make the decision. Standard proceedure here for the MDI contracter that we use for upgraded to HD is forklift the dish out and replace with SWM equipment so that a single coax will run both tuners for the DVR's.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Does DirecTV even broadcast any of the channels in HD that the HR10-250 can receive anymore?


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## kcmurphy88 (Jul 5, 2003)

I loved my HR10-250, but the HR2x boxes are really pretty good now. Certainly they do more than the HR10-250 (not strictly TiVos fault). I've stopped using my TiVo as a backup recorder -- the HR20 and HR21 are stone-ax reliable for me. Don't assume the rants are typical -- happy customers don't post as much.


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## kcmurphy88 (Jul 5, 2003)

rifleman69 said:


> Does DirecTV even broadcast any of the channels in HD that the HR10-250 can receive anymore?


Not really, unless you count SD. It's now an OTA box for the most part.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

There are still three or four HD channels the HR10 can get. Those should go dark very soon, though.


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## markedcw (May 22, 2004)

rifleman69 said:


> Does DirecTV even broadcast any of the channels in HD that the HR10-250 can receive anymore?


I know the MPEG2 HD channels are shutting down soon. That's the whole point of my question. Option 2 above would be to keep the HR10 for DirecTV's SD content only and OTA HD.

I didn't realize that changes in the dish setup might prevent the HR10 from working even with SD channels. I'm starting to really resent DirecTV. Maybe Comcast isn't so evil.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

markedcw said:


> I didn't realize that changes in the dish setup might prevent the HR10 from working even with SD channels.


That wouldn't be DirecTV's fault. The new dishes and switches work just fine with older equipment like the HR10 but if your MDU sets it up in a certain way then older equipment would indeed no longer work. I *highly* doubt they would do that since I'm sure there are many, many older receivers throughout the complex.

You're fogetting another option: Use both. So long as you can get 4 lines into your apartment then use both HR10 and new DVR on your TV, no problem with that at all.

I've had Tivo since fall 2000 with my first series 1 stand alone unit and owned at least half a dozen DirecTivo units thru the years. Right now I no longer have any DirecTivo's on my account (deactivated the last one a month ago). Frankly I don't care what the UI is, Tivo or otherwise. The DirecTV DVRs record my shows and I can play them back with no troubles. I don't need much more then that. The biggest complaint about the HR2x is that it doesn't have DLB. From your post in that you seem to indicate you rarely watch any live TV then this wouldn't be a problem for you. Go to DBSTalk for any specific questions and information on the DirecTV receivers.


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## markedcw (May 22, 2004)

shibby191 said:


> You're fogetting another option: Use both. So long as you can get 4 lines into your apartment then use both HR10 and new DVR on your TV, no problem with that at all.


Thanks for the suggestion but as I said above, we only have a single coax coming into the unit. Running additional coax is not physically possible.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

About a year ago I switched from HR10's to HR20's. It wasn't easy. It's kind of liek going from Mac to PC or vice versa. Both can record your shows and play them back. The HR20 just takes some getting use to if you have spent considerable time using the HR10. It's not as intuitive. But it is just as reliable. If you do take the leap, wait a full month before deciding how you feel about the HR20. 

The 2 year committment is prorated. So it's not like you have to live with it for 24 months if you absolutely hate it.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

markedcw said:


> I know the MPEG2 HD channels are shutting down soon. That's the whole point of my question. Option 2 above would be to keep the HR10 for DirecTV's SD content only and OTA HD.
> 
> I didn't realize that changes in the dish setup might prevent the HR10 from working even with SD channels. I'm starting to really resent DirecTV. Maybe Comcast isn't so evil.


While I can understand the feeling, technology advances and when it advances it tends to drop unsupported and outdated hardware by the wayside, legacy support is not top of technologies to-do list.

SWM is a new technology, it has the advantage of being able to fully support a 2 tuner dvr on a single coax, given the explination that you can only have a single coax, it is pretty good inidication that the MDU contracter will forklift to SWM distribution technology.

It appears that you can contact the MDU contracter directly from the way you post - call them and find out exactly how they are going to upgrade the complex's infrastructure.

The other thing you might want to check into is if your complex will even allow you to install cable. I know that some of them here will not becuase they supply a MDU for Directv.


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## markedcw (May 22, 2004)

sjberra said:


> It appears that you can contact the MDU contracter directly from the way you post - call them and find out exactly how they are going to upgrade the complex's infrastructure.
> 
> The other thing you might want to check into is if your complex will even allow you to install cable. I know that some of them here will not becuase they supply a MDU for Directv.


While I can call our MDU contractor, I don't trust the information they provide. The story changes depending on who over there picks up the phone. This is the fifth or sixth time I've been told they're about to come upgrade our building. I've been asking about this upgrade for a long time--before the LA HD feeds were moved off MPEG2 even. At that time, the owner of the company asked me why I cared. He didn't believe we were receiving the LA channels.

Additional coax runs are not an option. I had a contractor out when we got the HR10 in an attempt to enable the second tuner. I was told that there are too many twists and turns between our unit and the utility room. The contractor quoted a four figure price and refused to guarantee it would even work.


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## markedcw (May 22, 2004)

Thanks to all for the advice offered. In the end, we couldn't give up Tivo so went with the third option. I placed the order for cable on Friday, Comcast did a trouble-free install on Sunday and today a DVR expander disk arrived for the Tivo HD. Comcast kicked in a 25&#37; discount for 1 year on a package that includes HBO, Showtime and Starz. So we''re in a much better place than a week ago with more channels, more HD choices and more recording capacity--all at a lower monthly price.

Who knows, if the next gen DirecTivo HD proves real instead of vaporware we might switch back when the Comcast discount gives out. Thanks again.


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## humbland (Aug 25, 2005)

We are early TIVO adoptors. We still have a Phillips series 1 Tivo in the rack with a lifetime subscription, even though we can't recieve OTA signals for it any more because of the digital transition...(it still has a number of old movies we watch from time to time).

My dilema is a similar one. We have a HR10-250 with a lifetime subscription. It now mostly handles the OTA signals since there are now only a few HD channels available. What to do? I've read the posts here and it seems that the most popular thing is to have DTV upgrade to their HR21 and give up on Tivo, but what about the lifetime subscription we paid for? And what will happen in late 2009 when the new HD DTV TIVOs come online? What incentive will DTV have to upgrade us to these, and what happens to the lifetime subscriptions on the two Tivo units I already have?
Does anyone have a clear cut answer? Can someone point to a post which clearly defines the options?
Thanks


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Your lifetime subscription is still valid - it is attached to your DirecTV account, not a specific box. It has been this way since November 2004.


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## humbland (Aug 25, 2005)

stevel said:


> Your lifetime subscription is still valid - it is attached to your DirecTV account, not a specific box. It has been this way since November 2004.


 Does that mean that if we go with one of the HR21 DTV units, that there will be no monthly charge for the DVR? We purchased the HR10-250 for about $1000, then upgraded the hard drives. That is about $1300 invested in this, now obsolete, technology. Will they offer a "free" HR21 (and new dish) to replace it or will we be forced to lease the unit and make some sort of 2 year committment?
Then what happens when the new Tivo units come on board? Will they then replace the HR21s with the new Tivo box? If we elect to limp along for 6 more months, will they trade straight up for the new box?
Thanks


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

There will be no monthly DVR charge as long as you keep your DirecTV account open, no matter what combination of DVRs you have active.

What kind of offer you'll get, I don't know. The "list price" is $199, less if you pick one up at Costco. This includes an install of the new dish. It will be a lease with a two-year commitment.

When the new TiVos come out - I expect they'll be offered as additional receivers that you can pay for. There won't be any swap. The HR21 is not a "limp" - it's a very nice box with features missing from DTiVos (or even standalone TiVos.) If you think you'll be getting a new HD TiVo, then you'll probably want to restrict yourself to just one HR2x for now.


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## Tybee Bill (Dec 11, 2008)

I paid $500 for my HR10 and when D* made them obsolete, they offered me a free HR22 with a free service call. I was allowed to keep my HR10 and use it as a SD DVR in our guest room.
Their may be an issue about owned versus leased. If you bought your HR10 prior to Mar 2006, the new box should be owned also. Make sure you get it straight with the CSR before you accept the upgrade.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I don't agree that just because you bought the HR10 that the new box will also be owned. Some people say they get a statement from the CSR that the box will be owned but this is later "lost". In any case, I see no benefit to "owning" one of these boxes.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

stevel said:


> I don't agree that just because you bought the HR10 that the new box will also be owned. Some people say they get a statement from the CSR that the box will be owned but this is later "lost". In any case, I see no benefit to "owning" one of these boxes.


I agree, I paid $850 for an HR10 many years ago and when they gave me a free upgrade it was to a leased unit. I really don't see any benefit in owning vs. leasing anyway. Plus I still have my HR10 that I use for SD in the office.


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## BigBearf (Aug 18, 2005)

I have 8 HR10s and have swapped out 6 of them for HR22s. I specified on the work order that I would not accept anything except new boxes and the HR22 was the latest at that time and came with the 500 GB hard drive.

The boxes were supposed to be owned but as stated above that was not the case when they were activated. I guess I could argue but I got 6 HR22s installed free. I also kept my HR10s and deactivated my SD Tivo DVRs. I will keep at least 4 HR10s activated until the new HD Tivo is a reality and hopefully I can swap out all my remaining HR10s for the new HD Tivo.

Hope this helps and I hope this pans out
BigBearf


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## Tybee Bill (Dec 11, 2008)

The lease versus is a hot topic. The fact is, if you own a box, you can sell it if you no longer want it. If it is leased, you must return to D* if you term.

If you buy a used HR on Ebay, and it is a leased box, you CAN'T activate it, even with a new card.

It is a big deal for someone who bought a box for $999.99 and found out that D* will no longer provide a usable HD signal, after a few years.

Any HD boxes purchased after Mar 06 are leased and even if you bought from Best Buy, it is still leased.

Any HR10 purchased prior to Mar 06 (most) should be replaced free of charge, no fees, no lease and no extension of commitment.

Unless of couurse one doesn't care about getting HD programming.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Tybee Bill said:


> I paid $500 for my HR10 and when D* made them obsolete, they offered me a free HR22 with a free service call. I was allowed to keep my HR10 and use it as a SD DVR in our guest room.
> Their may be an issue about owned versus leased. If you bought your HR10 prior to Mar 2006, the new box should be owned also. Make sure you get it straight with the CSR before you accept the upgrade.


Even if you own it they stiuck you with 2 year year commitment without telling you.

Dump DirecTV and go with Comcast+CableCARDs. Get another HD TiVo.

More than anything you'll want to keep the TiVo Ui. You'll also get the network capability and features you'll never have with D*.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

stevel said:


> I don't agree that just because you bought the HR10 that the new box will also be owned. Some people say they get a statement from the CSR that the box will be owned but this is later "lost". In any case, I see no benefit to "owning" one of these boxes.


Had a HR10 and a SD-Tivo unit (both owned) replaced under the protection plan, the CSR activated them and they went to leased. CSR had no idea on anything other then leased. Finally got through to the Access card department and was able to rectify the situation, both boxes are now in the system as owned and the commitment that was triggered by the replacement has been removed.

Now those two where done via the protection plan, the last Phillips SD unit that I had upgraded to a HD for free is a leased unit, and not owned


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The resale value of old DirecTV boxes is not high, and with a leased box, if it breaks, DirecTV will replace it for shipping charges only.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

All the multiple hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars I've spent over the years on owned receivers are now worthless and collecting dust. Yea, that was worth it for "resale value". Resale value is only worth anything if you are going to leave in just a couple years. I use my receivers until they are dead. As for the HD DirecTivo, I refused to pay $800-$1000 for it because I knew it would be obsolete because it didn't do MPEG4. So I made a decision to wait an additional 2-3 years to be able to record HD. For those that bought it anyway, you made that choice.

So does ATI owe me a free replacement because the video card I bought 2 years ago for $400 is now obsolete and won't play the newest games? No, it's a choice I made.

I wish people would quit feeling like they are a victim or something.


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## Tybee Bill (Dec 11, 2008)

I stay with D* primarily because I move between two homes and an RV. I have dishes at all locations and take my boxes with me. The second reason is that I have made a MAJOR investment in hardware. I have purchased 12 boxes since 2002 and they all still work. The most expensive box I bought was tha HR10. D* graciously offered to replace it when it would no longer provide a HD signal. I have Brighthouse in Florida and FIOS just put some cable in my front yard. I am tempted to leave but I can't take cable with me when I travel. I will also acknowledge that D* CSR will take care of you at some level. You may have to work your way to retention. I got a $240 credit for a $200 overcharge they made. I upgraded a box for $199 and they screwed up the return and charged me $400+. When I caught their mistake the reversed everything, including the $199. You can't get that at Comcast, FIOS or Brighthouse.


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## humbland (Aug 25, 2005)

stevel said:


> There will be no monthly DVR charge as long as you keep your DirecTV account open, no matter what combination of DVRs you have active.
> 
> What kind of offer you'll get, I don't know. The "list price" is $199, less if you pick one up at Costco. This includes an install of the new dish. It will be a lease with a two-year commitment.
> 
> When the new TiVos come out - I expect they'll be offered as additional receivers that you can pay for. There won't be any swap. The HR21 is not a "limp" - it's a very nice box with features missing from DTiVos (or even standalone TiVos.) If you think you'll be getting a new HD TiVo, then you'll probably want to restrict yourself to just one HR2x for now.


What is the best of the current DTV HD DVR receivers?
I don't need OTA capability, since I will keep the HR10-250.
Which one has the most capacity, and will they deliver that particular box if requested?
Can you also explain the Costco purchase, is it done onlie or at a local bricks and morter store?
Thanks


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The one with the most capacity is the HR23. The HR22 is similar. No, you can't ask for a specific model if you order from DirecTV. The CSR may tell you they'll put in the request, but the reality is that you get whatever is on the truck. 

With Costco, they have the boxes in the store. You pay the "lease upgrade fee" and then schedule an install.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

stevel said:


> The one with the most capacity is the HR23. The HR22 is similar. No, you can't ask for a specific model if you order from DirecTV. The CSR may tell you they'll put in the request, but the reality is that you get whatever is on the truck.........


Just requested a replacement HR20-100 for a HR10-250 three days ago. CBS here has no agreement w DTV so we needed OTA and a unit with an internal fan.

Yesterday, received a HR20-100 via fed ex shipped from Stockbridge GA.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

HR20 - original receiver, has OTA tuners
HR21 = HR20 without OTA tuners (use AM21 OTA external tuner instead)
HR22 = HR21 with larger hard drive
HR23 = HR22 with wideband tuners built in (thus don't need external BBand converters)

All run the same software and same abilities.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

All of the HR2x receivers can also work with the new Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM) dishes or modules, in which case BBand Converters (BBCs) are not used. SWM allows a single feed from the dish to serve up to 8 tuners, with splitters allowed (only one cable needs to be attached to a dual-tuner box.) In most cases, DirecTV is not offering SWM to normal customers - you can buy the module separately. There is also a dish with an integrated SWM that is more compact than the standard 5-sat dish. Note that "legacy" receivers cannot use a SWM feed.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

stevel said:


> The resale value of old DirecTV boxes is not high, and with a leased box, if it breaks, DirecTV will replace it for shipping charges only.


Stuff gets obsolete in a hurry. If you are one of those people that likes to hold on to the past, I might have a vintage TRaSh-80 in the attic I'd be willing to let you haul away.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

I'll pay you to take my Apple IIe with extended 64k 80 column card and dual disk drives (5 1/4"). If you're nice, I will throw in my Beta Hi-Fi VCR!


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

I think I might still have the 4 meg memory card (yes...MEG) that I paid $300 for to give me a whole 8 meg in my 486 just so I could play Doom better. Or maybe that 1 gig hard drive I paid $600 for and thought I got a steal.

Yep, technology gets obsolete pretty fast. If you are on the edge you pay for it.


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## edkut (Mar 14, 2009)

I still have Directv SD due to line of sight problems. The SD signal comes in fine but the HD signal will not work. Does anyone know if I get a HR10-250, will Directv activate that as a SD only receiver and if so will this allow me to record over the air HD. Also will this unit work for over the air only without activating it. If anyone knows this info please post. I have great Air signals to my location so this would at least get me some HD access.Thank You, Ed


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The HR10 will work as an HD tuner without DirecTV service, but you will not be able to record. I have heard of people convincing DirecTV to not require HD service for an HR10 and activating as a SD DVR - this would allow you to record OTA in HD (where available.)


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## cthomp21 (Jul 15, 2007)

I've got two HR10's on my account and do not pay for HD service. I did have to call and press them a little to remove the HD service (which they added without my consent when I activated the used HR10's on my account).


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

edkut said:


> I still have Directv SD due to line of sight problems. The SD signal comes in fine but the HD signal will not work.


This shouldn't be a problem anymore since the MPEG4 HD channels now all come from 99 and 103 (main sat is 101). So if you have a clear line of site to 101 then you'll be just fine for HD. The old MPEG2 HD came off 110 and 119 which are farther to the west (probably your line of site problem).

You can't get these HD channels with the HR10 though. But just an FYI that you shouldn't have a LOS problem anymore.


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## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

For me to upgrade my 4 SD tivo's to HD should I call customer retenttion and see if they will upgrade then all for free? i already have 1 HR21 and the new dish.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

sk33t3r said:


> For me to upgrade my 4 SD tivo's to HD should I call customer retenttion and see if they will upgrade then all for free? i already have 1 HR21 and the new dish.


You're not going to get an SD DirecTivo's upgraded to HD for free. The free upgrades were for those that have the HD DirecTivo (HR10-250).

Depending on how long you've been with them you might get one free or for $99 but the rest will most likely be $199. It will all depend on what you negotiate but I can just about guarantee you that you aren't getting all 4 for free, you'll be lucky with just one for free.


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## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

Actually they said they could upgrade one of my SD tivos to a new one dtv sd dvr for free the other i would have to pay, they will also upgrade 2 of my standard recievers for $.. So I have a new hr21 on the way to replace my hr10-250 but i think i will keep that activate and deactivate one of hdvr2's or dsr7000's DECISIONS DECISIONS!!!!

Got my new directv receiver today, HR20 100, one problem no B band boxes, and i need thos ewith my dish. I activated this via the automatic phone system, and havent deactivated my hr10-250 yet.


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## ralbers (Mar 6, 2004)

kcmurphy88 said:


> I loved my HR10-250, but the HR2x boxes are really pretty good now. Certainly they do more than the HR10-250 (not strictly TiVos fault). I've stopped using my TiVo as a backup recorder -- the HR20 and HR21 are stone-ax reliable for me. Don't assume the rants are typical -- happy customers don't post as much.


I had the HR10-250, disk died and DTV sent me the HR2x last year. It died and they sent another one. So, withing about 18 months, needed 2 HR2x. I am thinking about fixing my HR10-250 and putting it back in service.


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## ralbers (Mar 6, 2004)

shibby191 said:


> You're not going to get an SD DirecTivo's upgraded to HD for free. The free upgrades were for those that have the HD DirecTivo (HR10-250).
> 
> Depending on how long you've been with them you might get one free or for $99 but the rest will most likely be $199. It will all depend on what you negotiate but I can just about guarantee you that you aren't getting all 4 for free, you'll be lucky with just one for free.


... AND they will INSIST on the two-year service commitment.


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## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

2 year commitment is in the fine print.


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