# Mini connect to Bolt via Open VPN connection



## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

I have a Bolt 3 with built in MOCA. I have MOCA filter at the entry point. I’ve established a site to site Open VPN connection. Will a TiVo mini on the client side of a VPN, connect to a TiVo bolt on the SVR side? My VPN up load speed is stable at 80Mps. I’m not sure if I need a Moca Ethernet to coaxial adapter on the VPN client side (connected to my client router) in order to connect a coaxial cable to my mini or if I can run an Ethernet cable directly to a mini from the client side router. I’m not sure how a MOCA network traverses through a router or if a MOCA network can traverse through a VPN. My VPN uses the same WAN IP on both ends. I appreciate any help before I test, thanks.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

If an Ethernet connection is available for the Mini, use it. MoCA is just an alternate physical LAN medium.

You don't say how the BOLT is networked, or whether or why MoCA is relevant to the discussion. (i.e. If the BOLT is connected via Ethernet to its router, then MoCA is not needed ... unless you have other devices on the BOLT's physical LAN requiring MoCA connectivity and you're using the BOLT as that LAN's MoCA/Ethernet bridge.)


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

It’s my understanding that a mini connects to a Bolts via the Moca network. Bolts have a MOCA bridges embedded, The coaxial network (MOCA)is converted to Ethernet via the Bolt, which connects to both coaxial (via cable wiring) and Ethernet (via router). My question is can the MOCA network traverse through a VPN (site to site connection)? In a site to site VPN, routers connect distant locations through the internet. I’m not sure if a mini will connect at the client side of my VPN but in theory it should connect because my home network is extended to the client side of the VPN.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

krkaufman said:


> If an Ethernet connection is available for the Mini, use it. MoCA is just an alternate physical LAN medium.
> 
> You don't say how the BOLT is networked, or whether or why MoCA is relevant to the discussion. (i.e. If the BOLT is connected via Ethernet to its router, then MoCA is not needed ... unless you have other devices on the BOLT's physical LAN requiring MoCA connectivity and you're using the BOLT as that LAN's MoCA/Ethernet bridge.)


My Bolt is connected to my router via Ethernet. I believe all master TiVo boxes are connect via coaxial to receive cable stations. I'm not sure if the mini uses the MOCA network to connect back to a master TiVo box when connected via Ethernet. I think the Bolt uses its internal MOCA bridge to combine both the MOCA and ether networks. My mini will connect via Ethernet on the client side of my VPN connection.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

RIX527 said:


> It's my understanding that a mini connects to a Bolts via the Moca network.


A MoCA connection is NOT required.

A Mini techinically just needs a sufficiently fast, responsive network connection between itself and its host DVR (residing on the same home network), plus always-on Internet connectivity. TiVo officially requires either an Ethernet or MoCA connection to the router for the boxes, and allows a mix ... but plenty of DIYers have managed to use better-performing wireless and Powerline gear to provide network connectivity where an Ethernet or MoCA connection wasn't possible.



RIX527 said:


> Bolts have a MOCA bridges embedded,


All but the 'BOLT OTA' model, which TiVo chose to render MoCA-less. (see here)



RIX527 said:


> I'm not sure if the mini uses the MOCA network to connect back to a master TiVo box when connected via Ethernet.


A Mini only uses its Ethernet or coax/MoCA connection, and so only one or the other needs to be connected and configured.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

RIX527 said:


> My Bolt is connected to my router via Ethernet. I believe all master TiVo boxes are connect via coaxial to receive cable stations. I'm not sure if the mini uses the MOCA network to connect back to a master TiVo box when connected via Ethernet. I think the Bolt uses its internal MOCA bridge to combine both the MOCA and ether networks. My mini will connect via Ethernet on the client side of my VPN connection.


If the only Mini that you have will be the one on the other side of the VPN, you won't need MoCA. Both the BOLT and Mini will be connected via Ethernet to their respective routers; the rest is up to your VPN configuration and download/upload pipe.

That said, had you needed a MoCA connection for either device, that MoCA segment would just be a separate physical network segment on whichever side needed it, between a MoCA/Ethernet bridge and the coax-only MoCA node (a TiVo box or some other MoCA device).


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

krkaufman said:


> If the only Mini that you have will be the one on the other side of the VPN, you won't need MoCA. Both the BOLT and Mini will be connected via Ethernet to their respective routrers; the rest is up to your VPN configuration and download/upload pipe.
> 
> That said, had you needed a MoCA connection for either device, that MoCA segment would just be a separate physical network segment on whichever side needed it, between a MoCA/Ethernet bridge and the coax-only MoCA node (a TiVo box or some other MoCA device).


I decided to get an Actiontec Bonded Moca 2.0 and get ride of my Fios router completely. I plan to disable my TiVo bolt's MoCA network and use the Actiontec Bonded Moca 2.0 network to connect my mini on the client side of my VPN back to the main TiVo on the SVR side of my VPN. I may not need the MoCA network to connect the TiVo devices but I need the MoCA for my Fios service to function with ASUS router.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

krkaufman said:


> A MoCA connection is NOT required.
> 
> A Mini techinically just needs a sufficiently fast, responsive network connection between itself and its host DVR (residing on the same home network), plus always-on Internet connectivity. TiVo officially requires either an Ethernet or MoCA connection to the router for the boxes, and allows a mix ... but plenty of DIYers have managed to use better-performing wireless and Powerline gear to provide network connectivity where an Ethernet or MoCA connection wasn't possible.
> 
> ...


My mini and TiVo bolt will be on separate physical networks linked by my VPN with routing. I have to researched more about VPNs to see if I need to tweak the VPN configuration so the TiVo device appear as if they are in the same network. But hopefully it will work with the separate networks linked together.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

RIX527 said:


> I decided to get an Actiontec Bonded Moca 2.0 and get ride of my Fios router completely. I plan to disable my TiVo bolt's MoCA network and use the Actiontec Bonded Moca 2.0 network to connect my mini on the client side of my VPN back to the main TiVo on the SVR side of my VPN. I may not need the MoCA network to connect the TiVo devices but I need the MoCA for my Fios service to function with ASUS router.


I also thought about using the MoCA that's built into my bolt to replace the need for a Fios router but thought it would easier to use a dedicated MoCa device.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

RIX527 said:


> I may not need the MoCA network to connect the TiVo devices but I need the MoCA for my Fios service to function with ASUS router.


If you have FiOS and a FiOS-supplied router with built-in MoCA bridging enabled, you never would have wanted to have MoCA enabled on the BOLT if the BOLT was also connected via Ethernet, as this would create a dual MoCA/Ethernet bridge and would create issues for your network.

It does sound like you need a MoCA network to support the FiOS set-tops, but the MoCA network won't be used for your TiVo connectivity if both the BOLT and Mini will be Ethernet-connected.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

RIX527 said:


> I also thought about using the MoCA that's built into my bolt to replace the need for a Fios router but thought it would easier to use a dedicated MoCa device.


Good choice, when budget allows, as it can be frustrating to mysteriously lose networking when the TiVo DVR reboots.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

RIX527 said:


> I also thought about using the MoCA that's built into my bolt to replace the need for a Fios router but thought it would easier to use a dedicated MoCa device.


If this works


krkaufman said:


> If you have FiOS and a FiOS-supplied router with built-in MoCA bridging enabled, you never would have wanted to have MoCA enabled on the BOLT if the BOLT was also connected via Ethernet, as this would create a dual MoCA/Ethernet bridge and would create issues for your network.
> 
> It does sound like you need a MoCA network to support the FiOS set-tops, but the MoCA network won't be used for your TiVo connectivity if both the BOLT and Mini will be Ethernet-connected.


Thanks...I will post more info as I test out the TiVo connections vs Fios STB over my local network and VPN. I know there is a TiVo Roku app coming out but I don't think it will have the same functions as a mini.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

RIX527 said:


> I know there is a TiVo Roku app coming out but I don't think it will have the same functions as a mini.


Pretty much no way that it can, even if adequate for many situations. The resolution and controls will almost certainly be inferior.

Good luck w/ the VPN approach.


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

I have played with connecting two Tivos over a VPN but while it worked I mostly abandoned it in favor of other solutions.

Originally I set it up as site to site TAP, because the Tivos needed a level 3 connection. That meant I had to conform the address schemes at the two sites and be very careful about DHCP. That worked to transfer shows because my ISP upload was only 5mps. Mostly it was easier to make a TUN connection from a PC and use kmttg to transfer the non-cp shows.

A few years later when my ISP upload increased to 35mps I tried it again and was surprised that Tivo to Tivo could work over a TUN now too. But again it was just too complicated.

Then I got a Bolt Vox with the idea of out of home streaming, but that avenue got borked by TE4 not working with my 4TB drive.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

elorimer said:


> I have played with connecting two Tivos over a VPN but while it worked I mostly abandoned it in favor of other solutions.
> 
> Originally I set it up as site to site TAP, because the Tivos needed a level 3 connection. That meant I had to conform the address schemes at the two sites and be very careful about DHCP. That worked to transfer shows because my ISP upload was only 5mps. Mostly it was easier to make a TUN connection from a PC and use kmttg to transfer the non-cp shows.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information. I'm using ASUS stock firmware with OpenVPN and it works great. Did you setup your Tivo to Tivo on the same subnet? My server side and client side are on different subnets but share the same WAN IP. I was curious about the requirement for the TiVo to TiVo communication. And also how in home viewing is determined by Xfinity. If it is by WAN IP, my VPN would solve that problem.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

elorimer said:


> I have played with connecting two Tivos over a VPN but while it worked I mostly abandoned it in favor of other solutions.
> 
> Originally I set it up as site to site TAP, because the Tivos needed a level 3 connection. That meant I had to conform the address schemes at the two sites and be very careful about DHCP. That worked to transfer shows because my ISP upload was only 5mps. Mostly it was easier to make a TUN connection from a PC and use kmttg to transfer the non-cp shows.
> 
> ...


What issues did you run into with your Tivo to TiVo connection (when you had the faster upload speed)? I understand routing and can figure out that part. I'm just not sure how the TiVo's communicate. I had already planned on setting up static IP's for the TiVos and static rotates between my site to site routers. But I need to rethink my VPN setup if the TiVos have to be on the same subnet.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

elorimer said:


> I have played with connecting two Tivos over a VPN but while it worked I mostly abandoned it in favor of other solutions.
> 
> Originally I set it up as site to site TAP, because the Tivos needed a level 3 connection. That meant I had to conform the address schemes at the two sites and be very careful about DHCP. That worked to transfer shows because my ISP upload was only 5mps. Mostly it was easier to make a TUN connection from a PC and use kmttg to transfer the non-cp shows.
> 
> ...


After a quick look at TAP it operates at layer 2 (switch) level and will bridge my two networks together. I'm currently using tun, which is at the layer 3 level (routing). I could see why you had to use TAP for your TiVo to TiVo communication via VPN but I'm hoping to figure out a way to use tun because my VPN is working great with tun.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

elorimer said:


> I have played with connecting two Tivos over a VPN but while it worked I mostly abandoned it in favor of other solutions.
> 
> Originally I set it up as site to site TAP, because the Tivos needed a level 3 connection. That meant I had to conform the address schemes at the two sites and be very careful about DHCP. That worked to transfer shows because my ISP upload was only 5mps. Mostly it was easier to make a TUN connection from a PC and use kmttg to transfer the non-cp shows.
> 
> ...


I have a Synology NAS (32tb raid) running HDhomerun, Emby, Plex and Synology surveillance station. And a mini PC running pytivo, mcebuddy, and kmttg to populate my media server. I watch my cp show on demand with HBOGO, MAXGO, etc so cp recording as a non issue for me. I'm thinking about moving my Plex and Emby media server over to my mini PC for transcoding and utilize my Synology for out of home viewing. I'm lookingfor a solution to minimize the traffic to my Synology NAS and moving transcoding to my mini PC should accomplish my goal.


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## RIX527 (May 30, 2019)

elorimer said:


> I have played with connecting two Tivos over a VPN but while it worked I mostly abandoned it in favor of other solutions.
> 
> Originally I set it up as site to site TAP, because the Tivos needed a level 3 connection. That meant I had to conform the address schemes at the two sites and be very careful about DHCP. That worked to transfer shows because my ISP upload was only 5mps. Mostly it was easier to make a TUN connection from a PC and use kmttg to transfer the non-cp shows.
> 
> ...


I decided to go with a Bolt 3tb and utilize my NAS for more DVR space if I ever need it. Trying to modify the TiVo's internal HD or add an external HD visa internal eSATA appeared to be unreliable after I read many posts.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

RIX527 said:


> After a quick look at TAP it operates at layer 2 (switch) level and will bridge my two networks together. I'm currently using tun, which is at the layer 3 level (routing). I could see why you had to use TAP for your TiVo to TiVo communication via VPN but I'm hoping to figure out a way to use tun because my VPN is working great with tun.


When I set up my three site VPN, the rules (In the Premier days) were:
A) The units must believe they are on the same network (same base address, same netmask). In addition to that being how the packets got from point A to point B in the simple case, there was a deliberate check in to code to ensure the units were on the same network, to prevent VPN usage, and that's how they did it. 
B) Unicast packets sent from Tivo A to Tivo B (and vice versa) must arrive unmolested (no *visible* nat)
C) Broadcasts sent from Tivo A or Tivo B must reach the other unit.
When the Mini was added:
D) Multicast packets must be carried as well. (And often some IGMP settings needed to be tweaked)
E) Thou shalt not drop a packet. Not one. Tivo<->Tivo MRV and MRS are comparatively forgiving. Mini's forgive nothing.

What shenanigans you commit to ensure A-E, is entirely up to you. It can be as simple as just bridging the networks (with all the drawbacks that entails). It can be a complex as a dual layered NAT design with an intermediate transit network and transparent natting on both sides. My solution is somewhere in the middle. (The Tivo's live on a pseudo supernet with a /8 netmask, but live inside the respective /24 address ranges that exist at their own locations. Each gets their address from a local DHCP server, (the netmask is a lie) and uses their own local router. The networks are technically bridged together, but with a filter that only permits the MAC address's of the tivo's to cross it)

MRS and MRV work perfectly. Mini's work, with the caveat that if you lose one packet, you almost have to reboot the mini. I toyed with the idea of introducing FEC to attempt to compensate, but the practical end result was we just stopped using Mini's for cross-site viewing.

All of that said, I am told the rules are less strict, and you don't have to do it the way I do it. I just know my way works every time.


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## Campbelden (Sep 30, 2021)

Yes, you can use your Mini to browse IPv6 networks. IPv6 does not support data transfer.


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