# Johnny Carson: King of Late Night - Anyone gonna watch?



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

This is on tonight on PBS American Masters.

To me Carson has always been one of the most interesting people ever on TV. While I was never a huge late night fan, I did enjoy watching Johnny from time to time. The number of comedians he gave their first break to is in the dozens if not hundreds.


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## dtivouser (Feb 10, 2004)

Tivo set! Thanks for the heads-up.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Yeah, me too thanks!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswe...r-remembers-johnny-carson-20-years-later.html

I actually talked to Johnny from the audience.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Didn't know about it. Thanks! Got it.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

Thank you for the reminder!


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

I saw a preview. It does not look terribly complimentary to Johnny.


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## omnibus (Sep 25, 2001)

My Dish EPG shows it repeating at 2 a.m. saturday 5/19. Tonights showing has too many conflicts.

Incidentally if you remember, In the 1960's prior to the tonight show Johnny hosted "who do you trust" and "do you trust your wife", Ed McMahon was with him even then.

After graduating high school I was an on-foot messenger in Manhattan. The two shows were taped from the little theatre on West 43rd st. They always handed out tickets in the times square area. The audience warm-up always started the same way. Johnny would greet the audience holding a half full styrofoam cup of coffee, come to the lip of the stage and hand it to an audience member. I wish I still had the cup.

Meanwhile Ed would be reading a show introduction from a single page. Johnny set fire to the end of the script as a gag. I attended the tapings many times and the routine never changed.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Thanks for the heads up!
I'll definitely watch this.

To me, Carson was the best at his craft on his show.
Off stage? From what I've read he seemed like a troubled and difficult person to deal with.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

of course I am.. I watch most American Experience shows.. at least eventually (and usually faster than realtime).

It would be cool (but I doubt it'll happen) if they somehow found some of the 'lost' shows from the decades they erased (most before the late 1970s IIRC).. and not just show the same Ed Ames clip we've seen a million times.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

YCantAngieRead said:


> I saw a preview. It does not look terribly complimentary to Johnny.


Just curious, do you prefer a show such as this be complimentary or honest?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I prefer it to be neither a hatchet-job nor a panegyric. Hopefully this one will simply be accurate.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I prefer it to be neither a hatchet-job nor a *panegyric*. Hopefully this one will simply be accurate.


I learned a new word today


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> I learned a new word today


I was torn between "panegyric" and "hagiography."


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I haven't seen it yet, but from the NY Times review, it appears to be fair. You'll have folks (Drew Carey is an example) who glow about how Johnny gave them a break and others who will talk about how difficult he was off camera. 

One think I always remember about when Carson was king was how he would do cameos, usually uncredited on shows from time to time and it was usually a big deal when he did, because of who he was.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

I've only watched the first hour and thought it was pretty good. No real new info however.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

Sparty99 said:


> Just curious, do you prefer a show such as this be complimentary or honest?


Honest, of course. Always. I was just making an observation.

You don't often see documentaries of beloved deceased celebrities that take the honest route.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I had a night shift job where I could watch TV in the late 70's. I tried watching the show but it was interrupted very many times by commercials in the middle of a conversation and then the conversation obviously kept going during the commercial and did not continue afterwards. I gave up after just a few episodes.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Watched it last night. Really good profile on the man and they balanced the his troubles and accomplishments quite well. Also a nice collection of comedians and talk show hosts lending their input.

It was pretty apparent how virtually every still photo they used of Carson in the first half of the piece showed him with a cigarette in his hand.

The only thing that was hard to watch was watching Jay Leno talk about Carson. Argh. Yes, they got along at times, and yes Leno talked from a comedian's perspective appearing on the Tonight Show, but when Jay chimed in on Carson _after_ he left the tonight show? C'mon. He hated you, Jay. He never forgave Jay for Jay stupidly taking the advice of his agent Helen Kushnick and not thanking and acknowledging Johnny on his first episode. Just own it like Joan Rivers has. It's pretty telling that Carson wrote jokes for Dave and appeared on Dave's show, yet he never did a cameo on Leno's version of the Tonight Show.

just seeing many of the old openings and sets brought back a lot of memories. Good piece.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

I was good. The only two late night hosts to like each other were Johnny and David. A lot of hate with the others. 

I was kind of surprised how emotional Drew Cary was. You could also see Letterman was. And Conan doesn't hold any "grudges". 

He left this world a great man.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

USAFSSO said:


> I was kind of surprised how emotional Drew Cary was. You could also see Letterman was. And Conan doesn't hold any "grudges".
> 
> He left this world a great man.


Agreed. I was watching this, and my 16 yo daughter was in the room. She doesn't have a clue who Johnny was, but she was drawn in just by all of the kind words from all of the celebs who's careers he'd launched.

One thing that wasn't mentioned: Whenever Letterman told a joke that Johnny faxed in, he finished it with a golf swing.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Yeah, I remember after Johnny died, the very next episode Letterman's entire monologue was made up of jokes Johnny faxed in to him over the last few months. Pretty nice touch.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

IMHO the greatest thing about Johnny is how he always made his guest look good. He knew how to pull back and let his guest have the spotlight. 

So many other hosts want to draw the audience's attention back to themselves.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I just watched it today and thought it was excellent. IMO, it was not slanted either way. It seemed very even-handed and honest.

I didn't actually know how very talented he was! I didn't know he could sing and play musical instruments. Didn't know about the magic. Good show. I was surprised to see that it was 2 hours and figured - no biggie...I'll watch it in an hour and a half. oopsie! No commercials. (since it was PBS I expected a couple long money drive segments) But I loved the entire 2 hours.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

Is this rerunning? Now I'm kinda wishing I'd watched it (intended to and then flat forgot.)


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

YCantAngieRead said:


> Is this rerunning? Now I'm kinda wishing I'd watched it (intended to and then flat forgot.)


I just checked the Tivo guide and I have it airing at 4am on both SD & HD PBS channels, Friday at 9pm (both), and Monday 5/21 4am (both).

I don't know if every market is the same, however, but that'll give you a place to start.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

sharkster said:


> I just checked the Tivo guide and I have it airing at 4am on both SD & HD PBS channels, Friday at 9pm (both), and Monday 5/21 4am (both).
> 
> I don't know if every market is the same, however, but that'll give you a place to start.


Thank you.

The on thing I do not care for about DirecTV is the search function on my DVR. It's SLOW.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

inaka said:


> Carson was the best at his craft


His "craft" had a total workforce of one; he was unique. Not the most important or significant role a human could aspire to, but it was something nobody had ever done before or ever will.

Steve Allen was more creative, as was Letterman later on; Paar was far more interesting. But "The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" was an incredibly entertaining one-time phenomenon.


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## Jeff_in_Bklyn (Apr 26, 2003)

I just watch it and loved it. I laughed and cried. He was truly one of a kind.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Thanks for the heads up!

I had no idea this show was on. TiVo's set to record it.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Wil said:


> His "craft" had a total workforce of one; he was unique. Not the most important or significant role a human could aspire to, but it was something nobody had ever done before or ever will.
> 
> Steve Allen was more creative, as was Letterman later on; Paar was far more interesting. But "The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" was an incredibly entertaining one-time phenomenon.


Yup, I agree completely. The irony, and Letterman touched on it in the piece, was that it was silly to think that the next person to get handed the torch to The Tonight Show, would be the next Johnny Carson. There was only one Carson, and often people didn't even refer to it as "The Tonight Show" at all. They would simply say things like, "Did you see that guy on The Johnny Carson Show last night?" He was the show. Not the name. Not the format, as others tried to duplicate. It was him, his show.

Letterman not getting "The Tonight Show" didn't really matter after all. 
Because Jay Was never, and will never be Johnny.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

inaka said:


> Yup, I agree completely. The irony, and Letterman touched on it in the piece, was that it was silly to think that the next person to get handed the torch to The Tonight Show, would be the next Johnny Carson. There was only one Carson, and often people didn't even refer to it as "The Tonight Show" at all. They would simply say things like, "Did you see that guy on The Johnny Carson Show last night?" He was the show. Not the name. Not the format, as others tried to duplicate. It was him, his show.
> 
> Letterman not getting "The Tonight Show" didn't really matter after all.
> Because Jay Was never, and will never be Johnny.


Agreed, but Johnny wasn't Jack Parr and Parr wasn't Steve Allen. They all work within the format, but they all have (and should have) their own personalities. Some work, some don't.

Haven't seen this yet. I'll probably get to it once the summer season is in high gear and have less to watch.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I'm assuming most everyone here has already seen "The Late Shift".. if you haven't it's a must see.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116835/


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Hank said:


> I'm assuming most everyone here has already seen "The Late Shift".. if you haven't it's a must see.
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116835/


Nope, but I will eventually.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Writer Mark Evanier, a Carson fan who knows a thing or two about comedy, has a few thoughts about this show.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

One thing that surprised me was the failure of PBS to mention was the run on toilet paper nationwide when Carson cracked a joke on a shortage that the Government had on obtaining single ply toilet paper.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I have taken a couple personality tests, twice it told me that the celebrity my personality most resembled is Johnny Carson. After seeing shows about his personality, I agree with those tests. I have no problem presenting or talking in public, but I am not the biggest fan of socializing.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

DeDondeEs said:


> I have taken a couple personality tests, twice it told me that the celebrity my personality most resembled is Johnny Carson. After seeing shows about his personality, I agree with those tests. I have no problem presenting or talking in public, but I am not the biggest fan of socializing.


I sure hope you don't smoke.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Hank said:


> I'm assuming most everyone here has already seen "The Late Shift".. if you haven't it's a must see.
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116835/


The book's far better.. and I have, but haven't yet read, essentially the sequel... about the Conan/Leno thing.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Yeah, I do want to watch that sometime.


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## Scooter (Mar 15, 2000)

I learned a lot of things I didn't know about Carson. Very interesting. 

Btw, his mother was a *****. :down:

R.I.P. Jonny Carson


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

brianric said:


> One thing that surprised me was the failure of PBS to mention was the run on toilet paper nationwide when Carson cracked a joke on a shortage that the Government had on obtaining single ply toilet paper.


I was surprised that wasn't there either. I remember thinking that it would most assuredly be mentioned. It's something that I recall to this day and, in fact, was telling somebody about just recently. Besides being a funny bit that had unexpected consequences, It was a great study in the dumbassedness of humanity in general, IMO.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Scooter said:


> I learned a lot of things I didn't know about Carson. Very interesting.
> 
> Btw, his mother was a *****. :down:
> 
> R.I.P. Jonny Carson


I know! Wasn't she just awful? I wanted to slap her every time I saw her smug face. She didn't like boys and she made it crystal clear, all along the way, that the daughter was the one she cherished to the absolute exclusion of the boys.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Maybe Carson's mother had a bad mother too. Then we can blame all her moral failings on her mother.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Maybe Carson's mother had a bad mother too. Then we can blame all her moral failings on her mother.


I blame Eve. The *****.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I just finished watching. Outstanding. I wanted more and wanted to stay with it.

We didn't get much information on Johnny's personal life in real time. I felt for him.

In fact, what I personally asked Johnny was whether he had heard from The Enquirer when he challenged them to sue him for calling them liars -*in a story about hiss marriage to Joanna being on the rocks. He said, "Obliquely. I think they're going to sue."

Now I realize that as Bill Maher said, he was ruthless. If you blew an appearance you'd never be seen again. I remember when Bert Convey made the huge mistake of eating an Eskimo Pie during a break. Johnny was furious with him...and he was never seen again.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I blame Eve. The *****.


I blame the apple. Who blames the snake.

Can't we all just get along?


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Maybe Carson's mother had a bad mother too. Then we can blame all her moral failings on her mother.


I don't think anybody is blaming all his failings on his mother. But fact number one is that his mother was an awful mother. I am pretty sure that did account for SOME of his subsequent behavior.

I don't think people who didn't have an awful mother understand that whatever preceeded her to make her that way is not really an issue to a child who is being abused in one way or another. You are just trying to survive and all you know is that SHE is a ***** and you don't really care why until you can look back through many years of maturity to analyze that.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

I really liked this. It was very interesting and I loved being able to see all the old clips. I wish I were older so I could have watched more of Carson before he went off the air.

tk


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

netringer said:


> . I remember when Bert Convey made the huge mistake of eating an Eskimo Pie during a break. Johnny was furious with him...and he was never seen again.


wtf ?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Bob_Newhart said:


> wtf ?


We was murdered.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

pendragn said:


> I really liked this. It was very interesting and I loved being able to see all the old clips. I wish I were older so I could have watched more of Carson before he went off the air.
> 
> tk


Carson was an icon and an institution. Kids used to beg to stay up to see "at least the monologue". We'd sneak down to listen from the stairs and try to laugh quietly (I don't think we ever succeeded at that). I remember what a big deal it was that Tiny Tim was going to get married on the Tonight Show, and my folks hated Tiny Tim, but we got to stay up to watch it because it was an "event" (the likes of which we can't imagine in todays 24-hour news cycle, with hundreds of channels).

As the years went on and his guest hosts became more frequent, The Tonight Show lost some of it's cachet. People would watch when Carson was on, but turn it off if a guest host was on. But Johnny was so big that they kept giving him more and more weeks off, because that's what it took to keep him.

Dave puts on a show. Leno cracks wise. But Johnny - he made you feel like him and some friends were just sitting around chatting in your living room and you were part of it. Nobody else, before or since, really gets that "invited into your home" part as well as Johnny did.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Finally got around to it today. I agree it was not one-sided at all. And that's what made it so interesting.

As far as his Mom goes, he obviously was a product of her upbringing. From his distance with his sons to his extra-martial affairs. And yes, she might have been a ***** but her mother was probably one too.

It's amazing the power and influence he had among comedians. Although I feel his decision of whether they were worthy of the chair was a bit abuse of power.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I saw this too. Thought it was good. Lots of praise for him for his contributions to television and the late night talk show genre. And rightly so. But they didn't really sugar coat some of the personal issues he had.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

His administrative assistant "Legs" sure was damn cute! (back then, anyway)


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Bump

Oct 1, 1962, fifty years ago Monday, was the premiere of The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

As an aside, I finally watched this last week (which is the only reason I know about the 50 anniv). Very well made documentary. I only watched it because there was nothing else to watch, waiting for the new fall season to start. And I'm glad I did, as it was more than worth the time. I'd forgotten how many "culturally historic" moments came from that show.

I didn't realize emphysema from smoking was what ended up killing him.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

You had Ed McMahon say that Johnny was a mean drunk who would pick a fight with everyone in the place until Ed dragged him away.. Then when Johnny was interviewed on 60 Minutes HE said he was a mean drunk, "Ask Ed."


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