# Terminator: SCC "Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today" S02E08 10-Nov-2008



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I loved this episode (besides for John acting so stupid).

Very _Boomtown_-esque.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> I loved this episode (besides for John acting so stupid).


At least everybody in the show _knows _John's an idiot...


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

Without a doubt one of the best single episodes of TV I've seen in a long time. :up:


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

Excellent episode!

I so want my own Summernator!


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

For a few minutes there, I thought he was going to make Babenator into a Real Doll.

I don't care for these types of episodes. The ones that replay the same event over and over from different character perspectives. It just seems like a cop out to me.

I am glad to see that Cromartie is terminated. 

Does anyone else think that Ellison knows that Manson is a robot?


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Does anyone else think that Ellison knows that Manson is a robot?


I am beginning to think this. For a brief moment I was half expecting Ellison to turn round at the end an state that he was working for one...


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have so little to say about this show (any episode) because it's near flawless.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Very _Boomtown_-esque.


I'm guessing they were going for something a little more classic.


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## jstack (Mar 26, 2005)

It's a real shame that more people aren't watching this show. At least FOX picked up the back nine.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

great episode, especially after watching the rubbish that was Heroes tonight


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

This was a real pleasure to watch. A virtuoso episode. It was like hearing a performance of a perfectly played symphony.

Although I do have to admit I chuckled when the title card read "Cromartie's Story." 

The only thing I was confused about is what brought Derek and Summernator to Mexico? Did they trace John's call too (which is what I assume Cromartie did)?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

atrac said:


> The only thing I was confused about is what brought Derek and Summernator to Mexico? Did they trace John's call too (which is what I assume Cromartie did)?


Summernator saw the number flash onto Derek's phone and called it back, found out it was the police station in that Mexican town.

EDIT: What does the episode title refer to?


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> EDIT: What does the episode title refer to?


Ditto....I was just coming back to edit my post with the exact same question. 

*EDIT* According to tv.com, "The title "Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today" refers to how Cromartie introduced himself in his first scene during the pilot. He used this sentence as the reason for appearing as a substitute teacher in John's class."

http://www.tv.com/terminator-the-sa...son-is-ill-today/episode/1228605/summary.html


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Good episode!

I think it was a nice touch that Ellison got to be part of the destruction of the Terminator that killed all his cow-orkers.

I'm also surprised that John's girly-girl survived this episode. When they took off in Chromartie's Chevy I thought for sure she was going to catch a slug.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I am glad to see that Cromartie is terminated.


Again.

(And just out of curiosity, why do you think it will stick this time? )


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

I can't remember, Cromartie killed Ellison's double, right? What did Ellison do with the "body"?


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

I liked the episode, but I almost felt they can use this to do a "reboot" if they wanted to. No more Cromartie, Riley could be gone (after everything she saw), the Conners/Baums may need to move.

So are they taking the show in a new direction?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> I can't remember, Cromartie killed Ellison's double, right? What did Ellison do with the "body"?


Ellison didn't do anything with it. Cromartie took it with him when he left Ellison alive.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

atrac said:


> *EDIT* According to tv.com, "The title "Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today" refers to how Cromartie introduced himself in his first scene during the pilot. He used this sentence as the reason for appearing as a substitute teacher in John's class."
> 
> http://www.tv.com/terminator-the-sa...son-is-ill-today/episode/1228605/summary.html


I still don't see the reason for naming this particular episode with that phrase though. Did something in particular connect this episode back to the pilot? Besides Cromartie I mean - he's been in a number of episodes, so why does this one get the call-back to the pilot?


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

TriBruin said:


> I liked the episode, but I almost felt they can use this to do a "reboot" if they wanted to. No more Cromartie, Riley could be gone (after everything she saw), the Conners/Baums may need to move.
> 
> So are they taking the show in a new direction?


From previews of next week:



Spoiler



Looks as though we have a time rift problem where what has been done changes the future. Cromartie is from the future but killed in the past. Be interesting how they approach this as time travel and the changes it causes can make a story strong or make it unravel and all fall apart.


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

pjenkins said:


> great episode, especially after watching the rubbish that was Heroes tonight


+1


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Again.
> 
> (And just out of curiosity, why do you think it will stick this time? )


Well, sarah smashing his CPU to itty bitty bits on a rock for one.

I guess they could make another Cromartie look alike and send him back to this timeline. Which is probably what will happen. Lame.

IMO, they should introduce a new actor as the Terminator that is tracking John.

I assume that Reese and Cameron were able to figure out where John was at by doing a reverse directory search for the number that showed up on Reese's phone. I can assume that Cromartie did the same when he impersonated Sarah on the phone.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Somehow, I think he comes back.


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> Somehow, I think he comes back.


Wouldn't surprise me one tiny little bit.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

I was so waiting for Cameron to say You know John, I am fully functional When she crawled into bed with him.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

scsiguy72 said:


> I was so waiting for Cameron to say You know John, I am fully functional When she crawled into bed with him.


I was shielding my eyes hoping nothing would happen, but peeking..


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

scsiguy72 said:


> I was so waiting for Cameron to say You know John, I am fully functional When she crawled into bed with him.


John has a lot more self control than I would in his situation!


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

danplaysbass said:


> I can't remember, Cromartie killed Ellison's double, right? What did Ellison do with the "body"?


See, I thought at the end that maybe "Ellison" would be another terminator that looks like Ellison, or maybe would have been Shirley Manson. Who knows.



scsiguy72 said:


> I was so waiting for Cameron to say You know John, I am fully functional When she crawled into bed with him.


Me 2!!!!!!!!


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

scsiguy72 said:


> I was so waiting for Cameron to say You know John, I am fully functional When she crawled into bed with him.


Me too.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Why else would Summernator drop the coat like she did......it's like her programming was telling her to be more sexy, without knowing what that really means.

But either way....Awesome!


BTW, I would love to see more of Summer's Ballet training come into play. That was an awesome ep/scene last season......


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Somehow, I think he comes back.


The sequels won't stop till the grosses go down.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

scsiguy72 said:


> I was so waiting for Cameron to say You know John, I am fully functional When she crawled into bed with him.





Kamakzie said:


> John has a lot more self control than I would in his situation!


Holy cr*p!  Didn't Jayne/Firefly have an expression for this?

(I'm finally watching the episode now on hulu)


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

macquariumguy said:


> I'm also surprised that John's girly-girl survived this episode. When they took off in Chromartie's Chevy I thought for sure she was going to catch a slug.


I keep hoping the writers kill her off soon. There's absolutely no on-screen chemistry between the two characters.

On the other hand, there were tons of chemistry in the bedroom scene between John and Cameron.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

TIVOSciolist said:


> I keep hoping the writers kill her off soon. There's absolutely no on-screen chemistry between the two characters.
> 
> On the other hand, there were tons of chemistry in the bedroom scene between John and Cameron.


I disagree. I like the friendship between John and Riley.

And I found that scene between John and Cameron kinda creepy.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

TIVOSciolist said:


> I keep hoping the writers kill her off soon. There's absolutely no on-screen chemistry between the two characters.
> 
> On the other hand, there were tons of chemistry in the bedroom scene between John and Cameron.


Funny, but I feel the exact opposite.

Riley adds a lot of John's life. We complain he often acts "stupid." But I think he acts perfectly for what he is. A 17YO boy who has the added weight of knowing that he is responsible for saving humankind. How would you like that on your shoulders? I am not surprised at all to see him act out.

I actually don't see much chemistry between Cameron and John. But that is expected as Cameron shows no emotion.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I don't think John has much chemistry with anybody. I don't know if it's the actor or the role, but he always seems shut down, and either way it works for the show. With Cameron, it's just kind of creepy (the robot and the shut-down human), and with Riley, it's a vivacious, outgoing girl who seems to be drawing him out of his shell and into a semblance of normal life (which, of course, can never happen).

So either it's a well-written show with good acting, or it's a well-written show that takes advantages of the strengths and weaknesses of the cast.


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## obixman (Sep 7, 2004)

alpacaboy said:


> Holy cr*p! Didn't Jayne/Firefly have an expression for this?
> 
> (I'm finally watching the episode now on hulu)


"I'll be in my bunk."


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

obixman said:


> "I'll be in my bunk."


But John was already in his bunk...


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

If computer AI can be sentient in the Terminator universe, why can't it have feelings? Because Data didn't have feelings on Star Trek?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

NoThru22 said:


> If computer AI can be sentient in the Terminator universe, why can't it have feelings? Because Data didn't have feelings on Star Trek?


No, because when he did have feelings (remember the emotion chip?), it was a huge pile of steaming poo.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

Just to be clear, was Chromartie basically taken down with a standard shotgun blast to the face? (Then destroying the chip to make sure)

I thought the 8## series terminators could take shotgun blasts and it would only damage their outer skin, but not their endoskeleton.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> If computer AI can be sentient in the Terminator universe, why can't it have feelings?


Who says it can't?

The terminators were created by SkyNet and perhaps SkyNet didn't see the point in adding emotions to the programming...


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

alpacaboy said:


> Just to be clear, was Chromartie basically taken down with a standard shotgun blast to the face? (Then destroying the chip to make sure)
> 
> I thought the 8## series terminators could take shotgun blasts and it would only damage their outer skin, but not their endoskeleton.


yeah, made little sense to me actually, given that the 20 ATF agents barely scratched the guy with high powered rifles and shotguns earlier in the series. Maybe the Connor weapons are a lot better/custom?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I'm guessing the Connors have armor piercing ammo, although I must admit I didn't know there was such a thing for shotguns.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> The terminators were created by SkyNet and perhaps SkyNet didn't see the point in adding emotions to the programming..


Maybe this question is relevant to what the Mansonbot is doing with her work on getting the AI to understand humor.

This definitely feels like a turning point. Maybe they don't have to move (though really they should -- who knows who Cromartie told? or the fourth guy in the bowling alley?) but they certainly have to have a long talk with Riley. And how will this change the dynamic with Ellison, and through him, with his boss? A lot of status quo went away here, and Cromartie's "death" is the least of it.

Though while Sarah was smashing her chip, I said to the TV, "doesn't matter, John could still fix that with a little brushing it off..."


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Isn't one of the standing requests of the Mansonbot for Ellison to bring her one of the terminators running around LA. Do you think we'll see Ellison digging up the body and bringing it to the company? For a while I wondered about the motivation of Ellison to work for that company. What exactly is he doing for them? What's his job title?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

macquariumguy said:


> I'm guessing the Connors have armor piercing ammo, although I must admit I didn't know there was such a thing for shotguns.


My fanboy rationalization is that they load their own ammo. They take the lead slug out and replace it with something much harder, like tungsten or depleted uranium, while also increasing the amount of powder for a higher muzzle velocity.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

About having to move: They'd better have to move now the name John Baum is compromised. On the other hand, they'll probably ignore it.

And my point about the emotions is that they just assume that we know why they don't have emotions. Like it's established that androids don't have emotions because Data didn't on Star Trek: The Next Generation. I'm trying to find a way to articulate this, but I'm tired, but I'll just say I'm not comfortable with them using other sources of Science Fiction to establish the rules of their universe (but not in any plagiarism kind of way.) If the Terminators are self-aware A.I.s, then why don't they have emotions?


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Does anyone else think that Ellison knows that Manson is a robot?


[nonconfrontational tone, cuz i'm curious] what makes you think that? i don't see that at all.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

I am pretty convinced that Cameron is some type of Human/Machine hybrid. I think they took the mind/memories of Allison from Palmdale and created a machine that remembers it&#8217;s past life.

Maybe with the explanation of making the machine better able to infiltrate Conner&#8217;s Camp. Cameron is the result and that explains her Sexuality towards John. 
During that scene I noticed how &#8220;Human&#8221; she acted. Much more like the time they first met in school.


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

All this talk of robots having emotions make me beg the question "Do androids dream of electric sheep?"


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sirius Black said:


> Do you think we'll see Ellison digging up the body and bringing it to the company?


Jobwise, he should. But I doubt that he will.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

scsiguy72 said:


> I am pretty convinced that Cameron is some type of Human/Machine hybrid. I think they took the mind/memories of Allison from Palmdale and created a machine that remembers its past life.
> 
> Maybe with the explanation of making the machine better able to infiltrate Conners Camp. Cameron is the result and that explains her Sexuality towards John.
> During that scene I noticed how Human she acted. Much more like the time they first met in school.


She also seemed more emotional at the Mexican Jail when she was saying that she had to protect John.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bruinfan said:


> [nonconfrontational tone, cuz i'm curious] what makes you think that? i don't see that at all.


They haven't shown that he knows or suspects, but I'd say at this point he'd have to be kind of an idiot not to suspect. He knows the machines are out there, and her behavior is such that somebody with robots on the mind would have to wonder.


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

bruinfan said:


> [nonconfrontational tone, cuz i'm curious] what makes you think that? i don't see that at all.


Mostly just a hunch. I just think that he's seen enough now that he may suspect that she is one. Her mannerisms and Cromartie's mannerisms seem similar enough to maybe throw up a few flags. Heck, he's probably suspecting that everybody is a robot now.

As for the ammunition that took down Cromartie. I am going to assume that the shotgun was shooting 12ga or 10ga high velocity full metal jacket slugs. Those things can really cause some damage. Combined with precise shot placement it could bring him down. I'd have to go back and look again but I believe she was hitting him in the cheek area where there is not as much armor. Terminator skull pic I could see where 3 or 4 direct hits to that area might disable him long enough for them to yank his CPU.


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Mostly just a hunch. I just think that he's seen enough now that he may suspect that she is one. Her mannerisms and Cromartie's mannerisms seem similar enough to maybe throw up a few flags. Heck, he's probably suspecting that everybody is a robot now.


I was thinking the exact same thing. At the very least he's got a very strong suspicion about her.

And what happened to the super sniper rifle Derek Reese used to off the other Terminator with? I would think he'd have that thing glued to his hands.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

TiVo Bum said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing. At the very least he's got a very strong suspicion about her.
> 
> And what happened to the super sniper rifle Derek Reese used to off the other Terminator with? I would think he'd have that thing glued to his hands.


I don't think the Military Academy would let him keep it.


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

JYoung said:


> I don't think the Military Academy would let him keep it.


Well then, it's a good thing he's such a law abiding citizen!


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> Mostly just a hunch. I just think that he's seen enough now that he may suspect that she is one. Her mannerisms and Cromartie's mannerisms seem similar enough to maybe throw up a few flags. Heck, he's probably suspecting that everybody is a robot now.


i'd disagree. the t-1000 integrated herself into society long before ellison knew of terminators. there is no reason for him to believe she is a machine...all of the terminators he knows of are rogue bounty hunters with no real purpose in life. Plus, they are all men. does he even know cameron is a machine?

and she is portraying herself as clueless as he is in terms of the big picture i.e apocolypse and the evolution of the machines... she shared her info with him and seems to be on a fact finding mission, using him to help her together.

i feel like that last paragraph makes no sense... but i'll go with it


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## NoCleverUsername (Jan 29, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> And my point about the emotions is that they just assume that we know why they don't have emotions. Like it's established that androids don't have emotions because Data didn't on Star Trek: The Next Generation. I'm trying to find a way to articulate this, but I'm tired, but I'll just say I'm not comfortable with them using other sources of Science Fiction to establish the rules of their universe (but not in any plagiarism kind of way.) If the Terminators are self-aware A.I.s, then why don't they have emotions?


I think it's just a coincidence. There is no evidence that they intentionally based anything on ST:tng (other than perhaps circumstantial), so I don't think it has anything to do with Data.

It seems like you're trying to assert that any self-aware intelligence, artificial or otherwise, should have emotions. How do we know that it would? Is it because humans and animals that are self-aware have emotions? Or could it be possible for a self-aware intelligence to not have any emotion?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

The idea of emotionless robots looooooong predates ST:TNG. I don't know why anyone would cite it. In fact, Terminator predates ST:TNG.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I wasn't as enamoured with this episode as other people here seem to have been.

I have no objection to the Rashamon device, when used well. In this case however, I really didn't get the sense that it was necessary or served any storytelling purpose. All the different "stories" could have been edited together as a regular episode amd it would have been just fine.

I feel like they just used the repetition to stretch a 40-minute story into a 60-minute timeslot.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Not a great episode, IMO.

I'm not a fan of the teen angst storyline (the name of the show is The Sarah Connor Chronicles, not The Whiny John Connor Chronicles!) and Cromartie was disposed of way too easily. He was built up to be this ultimate terminator badass and he gets taken down by a couple of submachine guns and a shotgun?

Weak.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

logic88 said:


> He was built up to be this ultimate terminator badass and he gets taken down by a couple of submachine guns and a shotgun?


Minor nitpick, those weren't submachine guns.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

macquariumguy said:


> Minor nitpick, those weren't submachine guns.


True enough but they also weren't anything that wasn't available to Kyle Reese in 1984 when the first Terminator showed up.

I tend to agree that Cromartie went down too easily but the show can't always be about running from the terminator of the week. That would get predictable very fast.

There is vast room for conflict with this CEO Terminator chick running around planning humanity's destruction. They could get wind of her plans and start trying to take her down. They wouldn't be able to do it openly because she is pretending to be the legitimate CEO of a real company with real employees. Those employees aren't the enemy and the more open your conflict the more likely those innocent people will get hurt or killed.

They have their own terminator running around with them who is clearly a damaged goods lady. Plenty of conflict without having a terminator of the week story line.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sirius Black said:


> this CEO Terminator chick running around planning humanity's destruction.


You think that's what she's doing? I don't.

I don't know if anyone's brought this up in other threads, but I think that there are _factions_ among the terminators. Minor hints at this: Cameron said in "Allison from Palmdale" that there were some who wanted to make peace with humans. In that case, she was lying when she implied that she was one of them -- but what if they do exist? Then, of course, Cromartie gutted pseudo-Ellison, and said "Skynet doesn't believe in you like I do." So he can think different thoughts from Skynet (even with, in this case, the same ultimate purpose).

More significantly, Weaver (the Shirley Manson character) has asked Ellison to help her _find_ (other) terminators. That means that _she doesn't know where they are!_ And that, to me, implies that she's working against them. This doesn't necessarily put her on the side of humanity, but I have the feeling that her purpose here is different from the usual.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> You think that's what she's doing? I don't.
> 
> This doesn't necessarily put her on the side of humanity, but I have the feeling that her purpose here is different from the usual.


You forget though, she killed to get her hands on the computer system (The Turk). She killed several people in order to to get what she was after/the results she wanted. Those are not the actions of a good guy. Perhaps she is trying to build her own Skynet but I tend to think she is definitely not a good guy.

I don't know why she was having Ellison go Terminator hunting but it wasn't to get them out of the way. One wonders what would happen if she came across John Connor in person. Would her primary programming take over? I seem to remember that the other terminators running around might have their own missions but should they come across John, they will try to kill him. I think Summernator said this.

and, of course, "Peace" is a very subjective state.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't forget. Like I said, not necessarily on the side of humanity. But, even Cameron kills without compunction, to achieve her goals, and she's ostensibly on our side.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I wonder if Ellison is any relation to Harlan Ellison (who sued James Cameron over the first Terminator movie, and got a settlement that included screen credit)?


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I wonder if Ellison is any relation to Harlan Ellison (who sued James Cameron over the first Terminator movie, and got a settlement that included screen credit)?


I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that the character is named after him.

That would be about it though.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Peter000 said:


> I disagree. I like the friendship between John and Riley.
> 
> And I found that scene between John and Cameron kinda creepy.


Ditto


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Sirius Black said:


> You forget though, she killed to get her hands on the computer system (The Turk). She killed several people in order to to get what she was after/the results she wanted. Those are not the actions of a good guy. Perhaps she is trying to build her own Skynet but I tend to think she is definitely not a good guy.
> .
> .
> .


True, but all that means is she doesn't have our sense of morality. She is maybe concerned about humanity, but not individual humans, if you get my drift. Her killing a few humans might be, mathematically, the most efficient way of saving humanity.

What did Cromartie imply when he said her chip was damaged? Was he just trying to plant mistrust, or was there an actual point?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Sirius Black said:


> You forget though, she killed to get her hands on the computer system (The Turk). She killed several people in order to to get what she was after/the results she wanted. Those are not the actions of a good guy. Perhaps she is trying to build her own Skynet but I tend to think she is definitely not a good guy.


Good or bad are meaningless terms to a Terminator. Only the objective matters. If killing someone is necessary to satisfy the objective, so be it. There were at least a couple of people in the Mexican Police Station that Cromartie could have killed but specifically did not because there was no need to, but he obviously is not a good guy.

Arnold in T2 was a good guy, but if it weren't for young John Connor specifically ordering him to not kill anybody, he would have done so without hesitation.

You can't utilize human morality when evaluating Terminators.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I guess they could make another Cromartie look alike and send him back to this timeline. Which is probably what will happen. Lame.
> 
> IMO, they should introduce a new actor as the Terminator that is tracking John.


No way--I like the guy who plays Cromartie. I love when he tries to smile.

Where did Ellison get the FBI credentials? He doesn't work for them anymore, does he?

Has the Manson lady ever talked to Ellison about John? Cromartie thought he would lead him to John--maybe she thinks the same thing. I wonder if she has him followed? Even if there are 2 terminator camps, both would want John dead, wouldn't they?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I guess they could make another Cromartie look alike and send him back to this timeline. Which is probably what will happen.


If you recall, the terminator didn't start off looking like Cromartie...


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

macquariumguy said:


> Minor nitpick, those weren't submachine guns.


Interesting. I'm no gun nut so I thought they were MP5's or something like it.

What were they?


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

bruinfan said:


> i'd disagree. the t-1000 integrated herself into society long before ellison knew of terminators. there is no reason for him to believe she is a machine...all of the terminators he knows of are rogue bounty hunters with no real purpose in life. Plus, they are all men. does he even know cameron is a machine?


 Fair enough. All are good points. But I just have the feeling that he has an inkling that she is a robot. Or possibly he has realized that she is from the future.



Amnesia said:


> If you recall, the terminator didn't start off looking like Cromartie...


Well actually. He has always looked like Cromartie but Cromartie has not always looked the same. 


macquariumguy said:


> Minor nitpick, those weren't submachine guns.


I'm no expert, but those were submachine guns. They definitely weren't full size machine guns like the AK-47 or M-16 and they weren't vehicle mounted weapons. They were HK MP5's


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> True enough but they also weren't anything that wasn't available to Kyle Reese in 1984 when the first Terminator showed up.


What they had was a concentrated volley from four different directions planned ahead of time in an ambush. Now, I admit that doesn't seem like it should have been enough. But it's something.

The important part is that they had time to set and bait an ambush. I think we can all agree that a bunch of rifles shouldn't've been enough; but by the same token, we can agree that they had enough time to set up more than that, including something that would have been enough, maybe.

So I consider this a failure by the storytellers to make the ambush convincing, but it doesn't derail the story because they _could have_ take out Cromartie on that day, just maybe not _the way we were shown_.

It's a delicate point but important.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

Terminators - robots created by machines - don't have emotions because emotions are weaknesses. Remember the discussion that Ellison had with Manson about the helicopter crash? Machines are better because they don't make emotional decisions. Emotions interfere with "the mission" - interestingly, Sarah seems to agree. She's constantly reminding John that he must stay clear of emotional entanglements. What was Sarah's big failure that led to Cromartie being able to find them? Her emotional response to a man begging for his life. She _knew_ she should have killed him. But her emotions prevented her from doing so, and he sold them out.

To a large extent, this has always been what the Terminator _ouevre_ has been about for me. The big battle is between the cold, emotionless, machines and the powerful emotional bond between mother and son. The only thing strong enough to stand up to the machines is the love of a mother for her son - something that the machines can never understand.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

stevieleej said:


> When they told John's Story, I really expected the camera to pan out and show Cameron (from behind) without a shirt on.


I would pay to see that! :up:


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

stevieleej said:


> ......When they told John's Story, I really expected the camera to pan out and show Cameron (from behind) without a shirt on.


We've already seen that (note: it _is_ safe for work):

The Summernator, topless and bottomles


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## kemajor (Jan 2, 2003)

Hunter Green said:


> So I consider this a failure by the storytellers to make the ambush convincing, but it doesn't derail the story because they _could have_ take out Cromartie on that day, just maybe not _the way we were shown_.
> 
> It's a delicate point but important.


Yes, I thought it would have been better if Summernator put Cromartie in a scissor lock and finished him off. 

- Kelly


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

kemajor said:


> Yes, I thought it would have been better if Summernator put Cromartie in a scissor lock and finished him off.
> 
> - Kelly


I volunteer to be put in a scissor lock by the Summernator!


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## kemajor (Jan 2, 2003)

jlb said:


> I volunteer to be put in a scissor lock by the Summernator!


Get in line. - Kelly


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

jlb said:


> We've already seen that (note: it _is_ safe for work):
> 
> The Summernator, topless and bottomles


Tease


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

AJRitz said:


> To a large extent, this has always been what the Terminator _ouevre_ has been about for me. The big battle is between the cold, emotionless, machines and the powerful emotional bond between mother and son. The only thing strong enough to stand up to the machines is the love of a mother for her son - something that the machines can never understand.


"I know now why you cry but it is something I can never do."

Emotions are not weaknesses. They are arguably the greatest asset we, as humans, have against those tin can mutherf....ers. Sarah's insistence on being emotionally detached is a character flaw. If you have no emotional attachment to the people you are destined to save, what is the point of saving them?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sirius Black said:


> They are arguably the greatest asset we, as humans, have against those tin can mutherf....


Shut yo' mouth!


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

Sirius Black said:


> "I know now why you cry but it is something I can never do."
> 
> Emotions are not weaknesses. They are arguably the greatest asset we, as humans, have against those tin can mutherf....ers. Sarah's insistence on being emotionally detached is a character flaw. If you have no emotional attachment to the people you are destined to save, what is the point of saving them?


*I* agree with you. But the machines don't. Remember, the Terminators were built by other machines. They see emotion as weakness. Therefore, there is no desire to develop "emotion" in the Terminator bots, like there was a desire to develop creative problem-solving skills. And I think you have the conflict nailed down perfectly. Sarah is walking a very thin line - she has to retain her emotional connections, and teach John to retain _his_ emotional connections - which are their very humanity, without being totally overwhelmed by the enormity of their task.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Shut yo' mouth!


He's just talking about Terminators.


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## the928guy (Sep 30, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Shut yo' mouth!





busyba said:


> He's just talking about Terminators.


Right on!


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Ok, just watched this last night, I'm a bit behind on my TV watching.

Yes, Sarah destroyed a chip, but who's to say it was Cromarties chip?

Didn't Summernator pocket the chip of the last terminator they melted?

Summernator yanks Cromarties chip, then palms off the other chip to Sarah to then smash to bits.

No, I haven't watched this weeks episode yet, nor did I watch the previews at the end of this episode.


phox


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

LOVE this show. Hate teenage John. Exaperating.


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