# 14.4 Sluggish, nothing new noticed.



## jaywtivo (Aug 29, 2004)

It could be that I am not digging deep enough to notice anything new, but the 14.4 release didn't seem to do anything noticeable to my system other than to slow it down.

Accessing my shows has become painfully slow. I didn't have this problem with the 14.1 release. In one instance, the "circle search clock" (for lack of a better name) just hung there while I tried to access "TiVo Suggestions". After 2 minutes, I hit back, then tried again. It popped up, but slowly. 

I was only test driving the HD stuff. To me, after using the SD menus for a few weeks, the HD stuff is way too slow. Too bad. 

(I would probably give the HD menus more of a chance if Parental Controls were enabled in them.)


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## johnner1999 (Oct 26, 2002)

maybe its just my two units -- but after X.4 they are both MUCH faster even with HD menus (note still using the SD menus as I still like them better...)

heck even transferring shows seems faster...

So I still feel tivo released the S4 a tad early - but if they keep up this pace they have won me back.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Since I got 14.4, I've switched to HDUI. SDUI is clearly still faster, but HDUI is now fast enough (not painfully slow) to use. I do like the eye candy you get with it, and hope Tivo converts all the menus to HD soon.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

I have yet to have any real problems with my TPXL, so I didn't really notice any difference in the 14.4 update either, but I actually did notice a new ad. When a recorded show ends and it pops up Keep this recording or Delete Now, right below it was an ad for Best Buy. But I only saw that one time, and I almost always let my shows run all the way out and see that menu. odd.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

yunlin12 said:


> Since I got 14.4, I've switched to HDUI. SDUI is clearly still faster, but HDUI is now fast enough (not painfully slow) to use. I do like the eye candy you get with it, and hope Tivo converts all the menus to HD soon.


What do you mean by "eye candy"? I don't understand why we pay for the box, then we pay for the service and after all that, we still need to see advertisements? I keep seeing an advertisement for Best Buy we I get back from viewing a recorded show. Why are we putting up with these advertisements? If we got the box or service for free, then I could understand having to see these commercials. That's another good reason for using the SD menus rather than the HD menus.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

lujan said:


> What do you mean by "eye candy"? I don't understand why we pay for the box, then we pay for the service and after all that, we still need to see advertisements? *I keep seeing an advertisement for Best Buy* we I get back from viewing a recorded show. Why are we putting up with these advertisements? If we got the box or service for free, then I could understand having to see these commercials. That's another good reason for using the SD menus rather than the HD menus.


Seeing _ONE_ ad bothers you?! Better not open a magazine, newspaper, watch TV, drive down the road, web surf... The only ad I ever see is the one in the Discovery Bar if I happen to look at the DB.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The Sd menus supposedly have ads too. I rarely notice them in the HD menus, just like I rarely noticed them with SD menus when I was using nine S3 units.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> Seeing _ONE_ ad bothers you?! Better not open a magazine, newspaper, watch TV, drive down the road, web surf... The only ad I ever see is the one in the Discovery Bar if I happen to look at the DB.


I'm comparing the TiVo to the Dish box I used to have. There was never a single ad on it. TiVo is new to me and if we don't complain about the ads, they are just going to add more and more. I suppose you like the ads?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

lujan said:


> I'm comparing the TiVo to the Dish box I used to have. There was never a single ad on it. TiVo is new to me and if we don't complain about the ads, they are just going to add more and more. I suppose you like the ads?


Time is what is important with any ad, have you every gone to a web sight and had an ad covered what you wanted to read ? That is annoying, if the TiVo ads cost me time to get to what i wanted to watch then i would have a problem, but if the ads take non of my time up (unless i want to explore the ad itself) and it helps TiVo stay financially healthy I have no problem. I pay for the print WSJ and that sure has ads but I never though it to be a problem.


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## Rebate_King (Nov 10, 2004)

My PXL is running great with 14.4. The HDUI is awesome. Looking forward to the 2nd core being enabled and also the rest of the menu's going HD.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

I am surprised at how variable peoples experiences are with the premiere. Its like so mepeople are slow, some are fast. But isnt it the same software ?


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Videodrome said:


> I am surprised at how variable peoples experiences are with the Premiere. Its like some people are slow, some are fast. But isn't it the same software?


My guess is that a lot of it is network dependent. Yes, we all have the same machines running the same software, but everybody has a unique combination of switches, routers, available bandwidth, latency, etc ...


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Videodrome said:


> I am surprised at how variable peoples experiences are with the premiere. Its like so mepeople are slow, some are fast. But isnt it the same software ?


The software may be the same but the environments are different. Some have slow networks, some have fast. Some use WiFi, some Ethernet. Some have lots of appliances on their network, some have very few. Some have reliable broadband connections, some don't. Some use cable, some use DSL. Some may use dial-up. Some use HDMI for video, some use component cables. etc.

From all the threads on this site, it would appear that the new TiVo Premiere is sensitive to the environment it's in.


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## andydumi (Jun 26, 2006)

gweempose said:


> My guess is that a lot of it is network dependent. Yes, we all have the same machines running the same software, but everybody has a unique combination of switches, routers, available bandwidth, latency, etc ...


Right.

But I also think Tivo has some of the priorities wrong. For example, when I hit the Tivo button and the menu comes up the panels get loaded in the incorrect order for me. First the main panel, then it waits for the ads/images above (which come from the network), then it loads the right panel last. So instead of loading the bottom panels first which are local, it waits unneccesarily I think for the top bar to load from the internet.

Another issue is of course the lack of local caching. Why can't they take 5-10MB and cache all those little cover shots from the top for a few days or so. The Tivo pops up essentially the same recommendations all the time, and it cycles through a few dozen of them it seems so caching frequent ones locally should be a no brainer.

I also use the HD menus on 14.1 and they work well enough. But I think they need to HD at least the guide and the channel bars ASAP. I cant believe they have not gone to HD on the main guide, which is probably the most used screen of all for the majority of people. And when they go to HD for the top channel banners, I hope they take overscan into account as presently the stretched SD bar leaves a gap on the left.

Come on Tivo, get it together, and faster.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

lujan said:


> What do you mean by "eye candy"? I don't understand why we pay for the box, then we pay for the service and after all that, we still need to see advertisements? I keep seeing an advertisement for Best Buy we I get back from viewing a recorded show. Why are we putting up with these advertisements? If we got the box or service for free, then I could understand having to see these commercials. That's another good reason for using the SD menus rather than the HD menus.


I mention this before tivo should have 2 pricing levels. A $12.95 a month with ad's or $25.00 a month ad free. If people don't like the ads then they should be the one to replace the money lost for the ad free tivo. 
The ad's is what help's to keep the subscription costs lower.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

caddyroger said:


> I mention this before tivo should have 2 pricing levels. A $12.95 a month with ad's or $25.00 a month ad free. If people don't like the ads then they should be the one to replace the money lost for the ad free tivo.
> The ad's is what help's to keep the subscription costs lower.


You mean it would be even higher?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

lujan said:


> You mean it would be even higher?


Sure. What do you think the ads are there for? The companies advertising PAY TiVo to place their advertising there. No ads, no vendor money. No vendor money, higher subscription rates to make up for the loss. Are you sure that ONE Best Buy ad is so bad?!


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

ITYM the one ad that no one puts a gun to your head and forces you to watch


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

lessd said:


> Time is what is important with any ad, have you every gone to a web sight and had an ad covered what you wanted to read ?


It is not time or coverage, it is DISTRACTION that matters. And I visit web sites all the time with animated crap that prevent me from being able to concentrate on reading the content. Even with Adblock, and Flashblock active, they are getting worse because now they use Javascript. And I don't care if it is an ad or just something "cute", if it moves or changes or makes noise, it annoys the crap out of me.

I, for one, cannot stand that type of stuff, and don't want it on my TiVo, ESPECIALLY since I had to PAY for the cable service, PAY for the cable card, PAY for the TiVo unit, and PAY for the TiVo service!

Now, the "on pause" ads on TiVo that I have seen are tolerable, since they don't animate or prevent functionality. And the "menu option" text ad on TiVo central and such doesn't bother me either. But that is where I draw the line. The moment they start putting animation or video ads on a menu when I am trying to read or navigate, that is where I will start complaining LOUDLY (I don't have a Premiere yet, so I don't know if that is happening, but it isn't on the HD).


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

caddyroger said:


> I mention this before tivo should have 2 pricing levels. A $12.95 a month with ad's or $25.00 a month ad free. If people don't like the ads then they should be the one to replace the money lost for the ad free tivo.
> The ad's is what help's to keep the subscription costs lower.


Are you crazy? Do you really think the service TiVo offers is worth $25 a month??? They are just some listings and occasional updates. That is more than a third of my total cable bill! It is twice what I pay now for TiVo service without annoying ads. It is FOUR TIMES what I used to pay for TiVo service years ago. It is more than half of my total Internet bill. It is as much as my land line phone service.

Sorry, I don't see $25 as reasonable, at all, under any circumstance.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

It really doesn't matter since it isn't an option and probably never will be.

Lifetime service is the best deal, assuming you will be keeping the Premiere for several years.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

crxssi said:


> Are you crazy? Do you really think the service TiVo offers is worth $25 a month??? They are just some listings and occasional updates. That is more than a third of my total cable bill! It is twice what I pay now for TiVo service without annoying ads. It is FOUR TIMES what I used to pay for TiVo service years ago. It is more than half of my total Internet bill. It is as much as my land line phone service.
> 
> Sorry, I don't see $25 as reasonable, at all, under any circumstance.


There seemed to be a religious war concerning ads not too long ago. $25 is reasonable to me (because I won't be paying it) if it keeps the _ABSOLUTELY NO ADS_ zealots quiet. I'm in the camp of liking not having to pay exorbitant service fees because of whatever additional income those non-obtrusive ads bring in...


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

lujan said:


> What do you mean by "eye candy"? I don't understand why we pay for the box, then we pay for the service and after all that, we still need to see advertisements? I keep seeing an advertisement for Best Buy we I get back from viewing a recorded show. Why are we putting up with these advertisements? If we got the box or service for free, then I could understand having to see these commercials. That's another good reason for using the SD menus rather than the HD menus.


If there were ads I haven't noticed them. I usually just take a glance of the screen and the relevant info is pretty clear front and center. Maybe my peripheral vision suck? I don't know. To me whatever ads they put on the screen 1) is not getting in the way of me seeing the info, and 2) does not require any extra effort for me to navigate to other useful info, so I don't care.

Update: agree with orangeboy above, I look at my Tivo PXL with lifetime as a $750 one-time cost for something I plan to use for 5 yrs. As long as Tivo does not put obtrusive ads on the screen, this is an acceptable cost for the service+HW to me, so far so good.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> There seemed to be a religious war concerning ads not too long ago. $25 is reasonable to me .


I should also point out that I can get a Cox DVR for $0 for the equipment, $0 for lifetime replacement/repair, $0 for equipment upgrades, and $10 a month for the service, the program guide, and the updates. And it has no ads at all. THAT is what TiVo has to compete against.

Is the TiVo better? Of course (at least the HD is, not sure about the Premiere quite yet). But is it worth hundreds of dollars in equipment, no included repair, no included upgrades, mailing back and waiting for a unit for repair, and $3 more a month for service? Yes. But $18/mo more on top of that ($25/mo)? I don't think so. Maybe some people do, but I am going to guess TiVo would lose a WHOLE LOT of customers at that point.


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## texasPI (May 9, 2010)

crxssi said:


> I should also point out that I can get a Cox DVR for $0 for the equipment, $0 for lifetime replacement/repair, $0 for equipment upgrades, and $10 a month for the service, the program guide, and the updates. And it has no ads at all. THAT is what TiVo has to compete against.
> 
> Is the TiVo better? Of course (at least the HD is, not sure about the Premiere quite yet). But is it worth hundreds of dollars in equipment, no included repair, no included upgrades, mailing back and waiting for a unit for repair, and $3 more a month for service? Yes. But $18/mo more on top of that ($25/mo)? I don't think so. Maybe some people do, but I am going to guess TiVo would lose a WHOLE LOT of customers at that point.


Don't forget to factor in VOD and PPV on cable DVR.


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## texasPI (May 9, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> There seemed to be a religious war concerning ads not too long ago. $25 is reasonable to me (because I won't be paying it) if it keeps the _ABSOLUTELY NO ADS_ zealots quiet. I'm in the camp of liking not having to pay exorbitant service fees because of whatever additional income those non-obtrusive ads bring in...


Ok, we're the no ads zealots and your the "it's good enough" crowd. If the ads are not an issue for you, great, but don't knock the people that do mind them. I pay about $9 per month for Netflix and I have a Roku box and I never have any ads, why not?


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## aaroncgi (Apr 13, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> The Sd menus supposedly have ads too. I rarely notice them in the HD menus, just like I rarely noticed them with SD menus when I was using nine S3 units.


I have not seen a single ad in seven weeks using the SD menus...


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

texasPI said:


> Ok, we're the no ads zealots and your the "it's good enough" crowd. If the ads are not an issue for you, great, but don't knock the people that do mind them. I pay about $9 per month for Netflix and I have a Roku box and I never have any ads, why not?


As the old saying goes, if thine eyes offend thee, pluck them out. If TiVo ads offend you, get rid of your TiVo. 

Thankfully, they don't bother me at all. I don't look at them and I don't respond to them. If TiVo can keep their head above water by selling advertising space that's unobtrusive, I say bring it on. I'd rather that then TiVo go out of business or have them hike up the subscription charges.


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## texasPI (May 9, 2010)

TrueTurbo said:


> As the old saying goes, if thine eyes offend thee, pluck them out. If TiVo ads offend you, get rid of your TiVo.
> 
> Thankfully, they don't bother me at all. I don't look at them and I don't respond to them. If TiVo can keep their head above water by selling advertising space that's unobtrusive, I say bring it on. I'd rather that then TiVo go out of business or have them hike up the subscription charges.


Well, unlike some, I'm not all talk. I did cancel and return my Tivo today. I bought my mom a Series 2 DT when they first came out with lifetime and it's still going strong and she loves it. I had not owned a Tivo until recently but I can't say was very impressed. One thing that I don't think anyone can argue with is that Tivo is not the company it once was, which is sad. I don't wish them anything but success.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

texasPI said:


> Well, unlike some, I'm not all talk. I did cancel and return my Tivo today. I bought my mom a Series 2 DT when they first came out with lifetime and it's still going strong and she loves it. I had not owned a Tivo until recently but I can't say was very impressed. One thing that I don't think anyone can argue with is that Tivo is not the company it once was, which is sad. I don't wish them anything but success.


Fair enough. I respect your conviction. I hope that TiVo do improve to the point where you might consider trying the latest hardware and software again.


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## texasPI (May 9, 2010)

TrueTurbo said:


> Fair enough. I respect your conviction. I hope that TiVo do improve to the point where you might consider trying the latest hardware and software again.


:up:


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

What am I missing. I'm looking at the "My Shows" screen in the HDUI, and I don't see any obvious ads. Are yoy guys bothered by the things in the top banner, I have one ad in it now (Bose). Besides the speed, I see no downside comparing this to the SD UI. I see extra thumb nails for each show I highlighted. I have the extra PIP screen on the top right corner. The My Shows list is better formatted for the HDUI, and can fit more words on each line. I moved into a show, and even the Bose ad is gone, everything on top are suggestions for shows now. What's the downside? The HDUI delivers a tons more, and once a while it has a little ad that does not block anything, does not pop up, does not need anyone to do any extra click.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

My full quote included:



crxssi said:


> orangeboy said:
> 
> 
> > There seemed to be a religious war concerning ads not too long ago. $25 is reasonable to me (because I won't be paying it) if it keeps the _ABSOLUTELY NO ADS_ zealots quiet. I'm in the camp of liking not having to pay exorbitant service fees because of whatever additional income those non-obtrusive ads bring in...
> ...


Point missed because of your "creative" edit to what I said. If you are going to quote me, do not change the spirit of my post. If the zealots want to pay $25/month, let them. Again, I wouldn't, and I don't think many would. If ads (not adds - that's what you do in math) bother folks so much, let them pay a premium to make up for the revenue lost.


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## jaywtivo (Aug 29, 2004)

I should point out. That the "Slow" TiVo is still *much* faster at channel changing on Cable than my DirecTV HR20 was. 

This box has great potential, but like the HR20 was when it was released too early, has a long way to go.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

jaywtivo said:


> I should point out. That the "Slow" TiVo is still *much* faster at channel changing on Cable than my DirecTV HR20 was.
> 
> This box has great potential, but like the HR20 was when it was released too early, has a long way to go.


+1

I switched from an HR22 and it was agony calling up a menu or even fast-forwarding or rewinding.

Also, the Comcast DVR is garbage and non-intuitive.

I'm looking forward to TiVo finishing the Premiere's UI - but even in the current state it's a keeper.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

crxssi said:


> It is not time or coverage, it is DISTRACTION that matters. And I visit web sites all the time with animated crap that prevent me from being able to concentrate on reading the content. Even with Adblock, and Flashblock active, they are getting worse because now they use Javascript. And I don't care if it is an ad or just something "cute", if it moves or changes or makes noise, it annoys the crap out of me.
> 
> I, for one, cannot stand that type of stuff, and don't want it on my TiVo, ESPECIALLY since I had to PAY for the cable service, PAY for the cable card, PAY for the TiVo unit, and PAY for the TiVo service!
> 
> Now, the "on pause" ads on TiVo that I have seen are tolerable, since they don't animate or prevent functionality. And the "menu option" text ad on TiVo central and such doesn't bother me either. But that is where I draw the line. The moment they start putting animation or video ads on a menu when I am trying to read or navigate, that is where I will start complaining LOUDLY (I don't have a Premiere yet, so I don't know if that is happening, but it isn't on the HD).


Very well put. I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

texasPI said:


> Ok, we're the no ads zealots and your the "it's good enough" crowd. If the ads are not an issue for you, great, but don't knock the people that do mind them. I pay about $9 per month for Netflix and I have a Roku box and I never have any ads, why not?


not true, the Roku has an ad at the bottom of the home screen. Usually for an Amazon movie or something on sale, but it's an ad regardless. And if you get DVD's from Netflix there is an ad inside the mailer when you open it up to get your dvd out.

and I should also mention on my TPXL I have never used anything except the HDUI


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## SnydersWeb (May 5, 2010)

OK.. the ads that now appear when I pause a show and a couple of other locations are flat-out annoying. I'm willing to accept TiVo is a company who needs to make money, I'm also willing to accept the fact they're working on making my TPXL better.

But seriously.. why are they working on sticking stupid ads into this damn thing and not 100% focused on making this dubious product better!? Having come from the latest Comcast DVR box I'm not really seeing where this box is flat out better outside of enormous capacity.

In short:

Give me full CPU support and lightning fast menus - not ads.
Give me full HD menus all the way through - not ads.
Give me ROCK SOLID STABILITY - not ads.
Give me fast boot times - not ads.

Hit those 4 and I can tolerate ads - to a point...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Give them time. It will not happen overnight.


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

SnydersWeb said:


> In short:
> 
> Give me full CPU support and lightning fast menus - not ads.
> Give me full HD menus all the way through - not ads.
> ...


Boot times are largely irrelevant unless the system is unstable or your power is unstable. 
CPU support doesn't directly matter... you're just mentioning that because we know that it's only using one core. 
What we are really interested in is the performance... it doesn't really matter how we get there. 
An example (from this thread) is the order and priorities things are apparently loaded (or drawn) in the HDUI. Some optimization shouldn't require the second core.
The drawing/loading priority for My Shows should be {Folder/Show list + navigation} > {Info pane} > {Discovery Bar}. Yet I see my navigation of the list sitting and waiting for the info pane (of a show I don't care about) to load before my navigation is allowed to continue. IMO... any navigation commands should interrupt/suspend drawing the info pane and discovery bar.
Maybe it's an issue with the development platform... maybe they don't have enough low level control to fix issues like this without more CPU horsepower.
(I really don't know what I'm talking about from a programming PoV... I'm trying to describe how I think it should work.)


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

SnydersWeb said:


> OK.. the ads that now appear when I pause a show and a couple of other locations are flat-out annoying. I'm willing to accept TiVo is a company who needs to make money, I'm also willing to accept the fact they're working on making my TPXL better.
> 
> But seriously.. why are they working on sticking stupid ads into this damn thing and not 100% focused on making this dubious product better!? Having come from the latest Comcast DVR box I'm not really seeing where this box is flat out better outside of enormous capacity.
> 
> ...


Yeah those 4 points would go a long way (maybe except boot time). Being released for barely 2 months, I think their SW has improved the HDUI's speed and stability a lot.

Also looking forward to Pandora!


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## SnydersWeb (May 5, 2010)

That is mostly what I'm (largely) reiterating is that they really need to focus on making the product better (ergo sum: worth the investment) than work on anything that is outside of that scope (ads/superfluous BS).

*Ads do not contribute to customer satisfaction. *

Mostly the reason why I called out boot times is during the (very recent) days of 14.1c when spontaneous reboots happened too often. The long reboot time was further insult to injury. The fact it would crash at all was inexcusable.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

SnydersWeb said:


> *Ads do not contribute to customer satisfaction. *


They do if they help keep the company afloat. I'd be a pretty unsatisfied customer if TiVo went out of business!


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

TrueTurbo said:


> They do if they help keep the company afloat. I'd be a pretty unsatisfied customer if TiVo went out of business!


Although I agree with you, I would add they are far more likely to go out of business by releasing a half-baked product...


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## SnydersWeb (May 5, 2010)

crxssi said:


> Although I agree with you, I would add they are far more likely to go out of business by releasing a half-baked product...


Bravo! I agree 100%.

I'm not anti-advertising nor anti-profit, I'm anti-mediocrity. So far the TPXL has too much mediocrity.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

SnydersWeb said:


> Bravo! I agree 100%.
> 
> I'm not anti-advertising nor anti-profit, I'm anti-mediocrity. So far the TPXL has too much mediocrity.


It's barely been out for 2 months!

Think about the things that were missing on some of the most popular consumer products when they 1st came out: iPhones didn't have apps store, XBox 360 still doesn't have BR playback, PS3 had backward compatibility with PS2 games, iPad had Wifi issues, no camera, no Flash/Hulu, Android phones didn't have multi-touch, turn-by-turn navigation.

Tivo has released 2 SW updates since the Premiere came out, and has been consistently clear about their plan to turn on dual-core, bring more HDUI, bring Pandora and more apps, and I believe them (unlike Apple's lip service for Flash on iPhone), and I for one, am glad to see Tivo releasing a real product and continue to improve it.

Even discounting the promises that Tivo P/PXL holds, what has Tivo released that is such an egregious rip-off? What if Tivo didn't advertise the HDUI capability, and release the P/PXL as an evolution of HD/HDXL with a slicker looking box, faster CPU, and larger HDD? The P/PXL works perfectly fine in SDUI, just like the HD/HDXL, and given the bumped up HW, it's cost (IMO) is inline with what Tivo was charging for HD/HDXL.


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## KingPenguin (Dec 26, 2005)

yunlin12 said:


> It's barely been out for 2 months!
> 
> Tivo has released 2 SW updates since the Premiere came out, and has been consistently clear about their plan to turn on dual-core, bring more HDUI, bring Pandora and more apps, and I believe them (unlike Apple's lip service for Flash on iPhone), and I for one, am glad to see Tivo releasing a real product and continue to improve it.


Longtime lurker and owner here. I have some experience in the type of development Tivo is doing. While it seems clear the Premiere *can* be much more than it is, the rate of development from Tivo is alarming. Based on the past 3 years, they seem to be adding quality features slower than their competitors. I think that is my big concern. They are still ahead of the competition but only slightly and at this rate not for long.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

KingPenguin said:


> Longtime lurker and owner here. I have some experience in the type of development Tivo is doing. While it seems clear the Premiere *can* be much more than it is, the rate of development from Tivo is alarming. Based on the past 3 years, they seem to be adding quality features slower than their competitors. I think that is my big concern. They are still ahead of the competition but only slightly and at this rate not for long.


It may feel that way because everyone and their grandma are introducing IPTV or DVR features, but has anyone else really put everything in one package like Tivo does? Can you give me an example of which of Tivo's competitors has quickly added fast new features that are available in Tivo?

How many new boxes has Moxi released in the last 3 years? How are they doing?

Does Comcast/DirecTV/Dish/Verizon/ATT's DVR's do Youbtube/Netflix/Amazon/Blockbuster/VideoPodcast etc? Do they have something like Tivo search?

Boxee/GoogleTV may be cutting into IPTV, but if you want to record Superbowl in HD, can you use them?

Hulu may be providing you with free shows, if you want to watch any show on Comedy Central, where are they?

If you look at Tivo against the entire TV/IPTV industry, yeah you can say the competition is heating up, but is that a fair reason to crucify Tivo and its 2 month old product? You can put 5 different boxes in your living room to replace Tivo, but would you?


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## JFalc (May 3, 2005)

Videodrome said:


> I am surprised at how variable peoples experiences are with the premiere. Its like so mepeople are slow, some are fast. But isnt it the same software ?


Interesting point and I will relay my experience this week.

Bought two new Premieres...they arrived same day in the same box.

Cable guy showed up with two of the exact cable cards (sci atlanta).

During the install, the cable cards each needed their firmware updated.

So we were waiting for the cable card firmware to upgrade on the first box, and it locks you out of doing anything and shows you a display about the cablecard firmware update.

p.s. both had the same software revision too (just after revising to 14.1 c ?

Then we go upstairs to do the second one and it also updates the firmware of the cablecard BUT with a competely different displayed message and no lockout. --- the cable guy noticed it too.....same machine, same seeming operation, different display and different access during the cable card install.

Oh well.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

lujan said:


> I'm comparing the TiVo to the Dish box I used to have. There was never a single ad on it. TiVo is new to me and if we don't complain about the ads, they are just going to add more and more. I suppose you like the ads?


I don't always want to be critical so, I just wanted to say also that I'm impressed with the TiVo technical support because I always get someone who speaks english. When I was with Dish, I almost always got someone who barely spoke english and we would spend half the time repeating our sentences over and over. I hope TiVo keeps up with this (english speaking TS) and I will stay with them for a long time to come.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

yunlin12 said:


> Does Comcast/DirecTV/Dish/Verizon/ATT's DVR's do Youbtube/Netflix/Amazon/Blockbuster/VideoPodcast etc? Do they have something like Tivo search?
> 
> Hulu may be providing you with free shows, if you want to watch any show on Comedy Central, where are they?
> 
> If you look at Tivo against the entire TV/IPTV industry, yeah you can say the competition is heating up, but is that a fair reason to crucify Tivo and its 2 month old product? You can put 5 different boxes in your living room to replace Tivo, but would you?


Verizon's DVR does Twitter and Youtube. They also stream local files via there Media Manager tool. Now I haven't tried any of it, but some friends at work love it. Many Blu Ray players and even newer TVs do Netflix. I believe even some players do Amazon.

For comedy central, you go to comedycentral.com. The Daily Show is up at thedailyshow.com and Colbert is at colbertnation.com.

The problem is you don't need 5 boxes any more since many of the devices now cover most of the extra features of TiVo. If you have a TV, Blu Ray player, 360 or PS3, then for the most part you may only be missing the DVR. All of these devices TiVo can't replace so you would have them with the TiVo any way.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

Just to get the thread back on topic, I think 14.4 is noticably improved. Not ready for prime-time but *noticably *improved.

I think my FIOS 35Mb connection helps quite a bit BTW.


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## CapnSensible (Jun 3, 2010)

I have the FiOS 35 Mbps connection as well but the screens on 14.4 are still slow to draw the discovery bar.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

CapnSensible said:


> I have the FiOS 35 Mbps connection as well but the screens on 14.4 are still slow to draw the discovery bar.


So you can't discern *any* improvement whatsoever over 14c?


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## MikeTerryP (Mar 12, 2004)

I just rebooted to 14.4 and unfortunately very little, if any improvement. Still getting a lot of spinning rings. I hope this was simply meant as a precursor to the next update. This one is - at least for me - quite underwhelming.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

I'm certainly not saying it blew me away - I'm not even saying I'm a little bit impressed. I'm just saying - and I like to think I'm pretty objective - that there was *some* improvement. Maybe 5-10 percent tops - just barely enough to be noticeable (the original word I used).

Since I have such a decent Internet connection, I'm thinking that it may be more noticeable as opposed to others with slower connections who might not notice even a significant improvement give the lack of caching ...


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

MikeTerryP said:


> I just rebooted to 14.4 and unfortunately very little, if any improvement. Still getting a lot of spinning rings. I hope this was simply meant as a precursor to the next update. This one is - at least for me - quite underwhelming.


It's possible the update wasn't specifically for you. It sounds like a bug-fix update, since no new apps and no new HD panels have been reported. If you suffered frequent updates with 14.1 and now you don't with 14.4, then there would be significant improvement, no?


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## EAnglum (Nov 25, 2006)

Just installed 14.4. I've had the box for over month - here are my findings...

When the box was new, things seemed pretty snappy (after reading this forum, I was expecting much worse). After a few weeks, it seemed to slow down (still usable though). I tried deleting items (got it down to 20-30%) - no difference so I'm not sure why it would slow down after a few weeks of use...  

Today I just rebooted the Tivo to install 14.4 - so far my GUI is much faster - I would say even faster than when it was new. So far so good...we'll see as time goes on. I have to wonder - did 14.4 speed it up or did the reboot?

BTW, I have a 20mb FiOS connection.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

EAnglum said:


> Just installed 14.4. I've had the box for over month - here are my findings...
> 
> When the box was new, things seemed pretty snappy (after reading this forum, I was expecting much worse). After a few weeks, it seemed to slow down (still usable though). I tried deleting items (got it down to 20-30%) - no difference so I'm not sure why it would slow down after a few weeks of use...
> 
> ...


Rebooting is a double edged sword, it could clean things up, but Tivo has to reindex after a reboot, so maybe it cancels out. Give it a couple of days and see how 14.4 holds up.

Regarding slowing down after some usage compared with brand new, it's not just about how many shows are stored, but also about how many shows you've recorded, how large your season pass list has grown, thumb ratings that were accumulated. These all get stored in the database, and it's linked to a bunch of things, such as your to-do list which is constantly getting updated. On some Tivo's I've owned, it could take 1-2 hours to just clear the thumb ratings. Tivo is not a simple piece of SW.


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## mr_smits (Dec 17, 2009)

caddyroger said:


> I mention this before tivo should have 2 pricing levels. A $12.95 a month with ad's or $25.00 a month ad free. If people don't like the ads then they should be the one to replace the money lost for the ad free tivo.
> The ad's is what help's to keep the subscription costs lower.


$25 a month would kill Tivo. Maybe $15.95/mo for an ad free version would fly with some people. How much do they really make off these ads??


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## DCleary (Dec 20, 2008)

Wow you satisifed folks sure are easy to please. I'd like to have you for customers. In my opinion this product is a beta that was rushed to market. I am pretty sorry I didn't return mine in the 30 day window.

The new update has not made a difference on my machine.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

DCleary said:


> Wow you satisifed folks sure are easy to please. I'd like to have you for customers. In my opinion this product is a beta that was rushed to market. I am pretty sorry I didn't return mine in the 30 day window.
> 
> *The new update has not made a difference on my machine.*


So you belittle the people who have noticed a difference and dismiss them because *you* haven't noticed a difference! Nice. You must work in customer relations, right?


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## EAnglum (Nov 25, 2006)

yunlin12 said:


> Rebooting is a double edged sword, it could clean things up, but Tivo has to reindex after a reboot, so maybe it cancels out. Give it a couple of days and see how 14.4 holds up.
> 
> Regarding slowing down after some usage compared with brand new, it's not just about how many shows are stored, but also about how many shows you've recorded, how large your season pass list has grown, thumb ratings that were accumulated. These all get stored in the database, and it's linked to a bunch of things, such as your to-do list which is constantly getting updated. On some Tivo's I've owned, it could take 1-2 hours to just clear the thumb ratings. Tivo is not a simple piece of SW.


Well the speed increase was short lived - its back to how it was before the update, I think I just saw a boost from a clean reboot.

Either way, its still very usable and way better than any other DVR we've had before (Tivo Series 2 and many other cable based DVR units).


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## EAnglum (Nov 25, 2006)

DCleary said:


> Wow you satisifed folks sure are easy to please. I'd like to have you for customers. In my opinion this product is a beta that was rushed to market. I am pretty sorry I didn't return mine in the 30 day window.
> 
> The new update has not made a difference on my machine.


Thanks for such an informative post!


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Got 14.4 here. Still very slow with the new menus. I do have a full tivo already, mostly Suggestions.

The HD UI takes 2-5 seconds to go between pages of programs. The SDUI is almost instantaneous between pages. It was in the TivoHD too!

If this is all they can provide after waiting 4 YEARS for a new Tivo, where they don't even have all the menus in the new UI, there is a real problem over there at TivoLand. They DID fix 2 of my reported bugs. The 'future episodes' did not show episode names and if you hit CM-Skip too many times fast, it sometimes went to the end of a show.

Something does not feel right. For a Linux-based product, they have to be doing something fundamentally wrong with the active Flash they are using. 

THEY ALSO NEED TO TURN ON AN ICON CACHE. Bringing up icons off the internet EACH TIME THEY LOAD is horrible and really not very network friendly. They have 1TB disks. They can keep a permanent 200MEG cache for icons.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

Trust me when I say that the "I don't have any problem" posts are generally not helpful - especially to those who have legitimate problems (are there other types?).

In this case I'm going to chime in with "I have noticed an improvement with 14.4. I have a 70 percent full PXL with 63 Suggestions. Scrolling from page to page is much snappier than before - we're talking <1 second"

So does this help? Probably not, but it suggests that the problem may be "environmental" - for lack of a better term. That's why I commented on my FIOS connection earlier in the thread. 

What else is a variable?


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

rocko said:


> Trust me when I say that the "I don't have any problem" posts are generally not helpful - especially to those who have legitimate problems (are there other types?).
> 
> In this case I'm going to chime in with "I have noticed an improvement with 14.4. I have a 70 percent full PXL with 63 Suggestions. Scrolling from page to page is much snappier than before - we're talking <1 second"
> 
> ...


My Tivo Premiere has 569 (177 suggestions) shows on it right now, 88% full. I am on Fios also. It IS snappier, just not close to the original SDUI. And NOT caching icons/pics and constantly going out to the internet is VERY NOT INTERNET friendly. Alot of unneeded traffic

The Tivo should be able to do most normal functions, like bring up 'tivo central' without requiring an internet connection all the time. Cacheing in IT 101 for programmed.

If my snappiness is 2-8 seconds, what is environmental mean? Displaying my program lists shouldn't be different between users with the same machine


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## andydumi (Jun 26, 2006)

yunlin12 said:


> Rebooting is a double edged sword, it could clean things up, but Tivo has to reindex after a reboot, so maybe it cancels out. Give it a couple of days and see how 14.4 holds up.
> 
> Regarding slowing down after some usage compared with brand new, it's not just about how many shows are stored, but also about how many shows you've recorded, how large your season pass list has grown, thumb ratings that were accumulated. *These all get stored in the database, and it's linked to a bunch of things, such as your to-do list which is constantly getting updated. On some Tivo's I've owned, it could take 1-2 hours to just clear the thumb ratings.* Tivo is not a simple piece of SW.


We don't use suggestions recording. And we just got a new Premiere, so the thumbs up/down is really light so far. Are you saying that thumbing stuff actually can slow the machine and a reboot process as there is more data to process? In that case, I dont think I will thumb anything any longer.

At least not until Tivo fixes the many missing HD menus, slowness and issues with the new machine. It almost feels like they created 5-6 HD screens to slap on all the marketing materials and commercials, then forgot about it. Really poor quality.


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## RoundTuit (Dec 29, 2006)

I experienced a hang yesterday on 14.4 unlike the hangs I have experienced pre 14.4. I clicked on TiVo (Menu on Harmony 900) to enter TiVo central and got a completely blank screen. I could not exit out of it and TiVo would not respond to any commands. I had to force a reboot.

Occasionally when I enter TiVo Central the screen goes blank and stalls while the software loads info for the Discovery Bar which can be several seconds even though connected to a gigabit LAN with 25/25 Internet access via FIOS. I waited several minutes before rebooting.

I thought it might be a networking problem, but while I was waiting I checked Internet access from my other TiVo's and all was ok. Both of my S3's could connect to TiVo service.


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## jacksonian (Nov 3, 2003)

I went away for the weekend and came back and noticed that both my Premiere XL's had gotten the update.

But now neither one is seeing the other or my TiVo HD for MRV. That's really strange. I went to TiVo.com to DVR preferences and unchecked-->saved-->rechecked-->saved enable transfers to see if that will help. They're both showing a normal network connection. Anybody else have that issue after the update?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

I received my replacement Premiere XL on Friday and after completing Guided Setup, I noticed it was loaded with 14.4 software. Like others have said, I can't see anything new in 14.4, but it most definitely is snappier than 14.1. 

Only had a few days to play with it again, but the HD menus are noticeably faster than before. I never suffered any 'hangs' with 14.1, just reboots, but they turned out to be hardware related (hence why I'm now running with a replacement XL!). My original XL lasted a little over 1 month, completely trouble free, before the reboots started. Let's hope this replacement lasts considerably longer!


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## jwagner010 (Dec 8, 2007)

@RoundTuit - I have had a number of these lock ups under 14.4. Its not as frequent as pre 14.4 but still requires you to pull the power cable. You do need to be patient as sometimes it will give you a blank screen and come back after 5 minutes, other times it stays there for ever and requires the power cord to be pulled. Lets hope Tivo can get its act together. I don't need a box that needs the power cable pulled every two weeks.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jwagner010 said:


> @RoundTuit - I have had a number of these lock ups under 14.4. Its not as frequent as pre 14.4 but still requires you to pull the power cable. You do need to be patient as sometimes it will give you a blank screen and come back after 5 minutes, other times it stays there for ever and requires the power cord to be pulled. Lets hope Tivo can get its act together. I don't need a box that needs the power cable pulled every two weeks.


Computers have a reset button on the front (some don't anymore), maybe that what TiVo needs.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Are these lockups not fixed with Thumbs Up>Thumbs Down>Play>Play?


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

lessd said:


> Computers have a reset button on the front (some don't anymore), maybe that what TiVo needs.


You are assuming your tivo is in the same room and your tv

All my tivos/cblbox etc are in my basement.

The Den gets 25ft Component lines to all devices using a compnent switch

The bedroom gets HDMI using 2 Cat-5e wires to baluns, through an HDMI switcher in the basement.

My Harmony 890 Pro (2 of them), send RF to the basement and IR to the room for devices in the room, like the TV, stereo, etc.

There is NOTHING WORSE than at 2am, scanning through tv, for it to lock up and have to go down 2 flights of stairs to pull a plug.

I have also found a program stored on my TivoHD, that xfers to the premier fine, plays ok on the TivoHD, dies and reboots at 34 seconds in on the premiere consistently. File is Widescreen, and about 55meg. I think I'll open a ticket to tivo for it. So much for assuming the playback guts was the same!


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

do those long distance runs effect the quality any?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

where are the menu HD updates (why should they still have SD menus on some screens?) - where is the Netflix interface update? etc, etc. Why are there still green rings for lists of text? FIGURE IT OUT!


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

b_scott said:


> where are the menu HD updates (why should they still have SD menus on some screens?) - where is the Netflix interface update? etc, etc. Why are there still green rings for lists of text? FIGURE IT OUT!


Unless you have first hand knowledge about making all of that possible using the software that is executing on the Premiere, your response seems to be pretty unreasonable. It seems pretty obvious the Premiere was released prematurely. But now that it is out and available in a LOT of different markets, my guess would be that the engineers are now swamped with making the thing "just work" given all of the different variables relating to those different markets, and not so much concerned with making the UI more cosmetically pleasing, with converting lesser used menus to HD.

In other words, relax a bit, and let the people do their work...


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## MrFlibble1 (May 23, 2010)

crxssi said:


> Are you crazy? Do you really think the service TiVo offers is worth $25 a month??? They are just some listings and occasional updates. That is more than a third of my total cable bill! It is twice what I pay now for TiVo service without annoying ads. It is FOUR TIMES what I used to pay for TiVo service years ago. It is more than half of my total Internet bill. It is as much as my land line phone service.
> 
> Sorry, I don't see $25 as reasonable, at all, under any circumstance.


If one also includes the cable card fees and additional outlet fees from the cable provider, Mr. Flibble actually pays more per month for service on his 3 Tivos than he does for his actual cable service. Mr. Flibble is paying about $50 per month to have his 3 Tivos running with Comcast cable. If Mr. Flibble replaced his Series 2 with an HD model, he would be paying $60 per month to simply have Tivos connected and working to the cable television he already pays for.

This IS already too much.

Mr. Flibble is very cross about this!


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

ferrumpneuma said:


> Perhaps the drawing priority and ignoring navigation are deliberate so you get some face time with the discovery bar ads.


Yeah, because we know the ads are much more important than the rest of the user interface. Oh, and make sure the ads and icons and graphics are NOT CACHED, so those can be a slow as possible before even starting to think about dealing with what the user really wants


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

Mr. Flibble seems to do a lot of talking to himself in the 3rd person.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

orangeboy said:


> Unless you have first hand knowledge about making all of that possible using the software that is executing on the Premiere, your response seems to be pretty unreasonable. It seems pretty obvious the Premiere was released prematurely. But now that it is out and available in a LOT of different markets, my guess would be that the engineers are now swamped with making the thing "just work" given all of the different variables relating to those different markets, and not so much concerned with making the UI more cosmetically pleasing, with converting lesser used menus to HD.
> 
> In other words, relax a bit, and let the people do their work...


I've been very patient, if you'll read back on my posts. But after two months I've just given up patience. I paid $1200 for these two boxes. If I bought a computer for $1200 and it acted like this I'd demand my money back. I've given them ample time, but they shouldn't have released them like this. As of now it's pretty much glorified speedy SD Menu THD's.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

switched to HDUI tonight. clear to delete takes 10 seconds, sometimes 10 seconds to register I pressed the button. If I delete a show from the screen after watching it still takes awhile to get back to the My Shows list. And half the time it just takes me back to the show info without showing I deleted it until I page back to My Shows. If I hit play instead of select/select on the My Shows menu, it takes UBER long to even bring up the picture. Just sits there on black screen. Still green circles on page down. I have very little in My Shows, with 300 in Recently Deleted - on my XL.

if I hit Tivo from live tv, takes about 5 seconds to lock onto the HDMI and a couple more seconds to show the PIP.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

also transferred programs STILL don't allow you to set keep until i delete.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

ferrumpneuma said:


> That one is not a "deal breaker". I'd get used to it if I were you.


:down: why should I get used to a huge error like that? i paid for two tivos to transfer between them.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

ferrumpneuma said:


> You can't transfer at all or you can't set transferred recordings as KUID?
> 
> I mentioned the now playing list blanking bug. I will be trimming things I know I will not watch from a suggestions folder containing 175 items. Delete the first few and the list vanishes and the tivo warns that the group is empty and is no longer needed. If you wait from 5-20 seconds the list repopulates and I'm allowed to continue like normal.
> 
> ...


:up::up::up:


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

yeah, but that's like saying "things will never change, so i'll never vote"

doing that doesn't help anything.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

browsed my second DVR, clicked left to go back, then clicked LiveTV. Infinite spinning circle for 5 minutes, unresponsive. Show continued recording, live tv was playing in the corner, but no button presses would do ANYTHING. Light showed when the button presses happened but no response. Had to pull the plug just to regain control of my Tivo.

I just lost Burn Notice to the f'ing thing. WTF.


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## sghrush (Mar 8, 2005)

jaywtivo said:


> It could be that I am not digging deep enough to notice anything new, but the 14.4 release didn't seem to do anything noticeable to my system other than to slow it down.
> 
> Accessing my shows has become painfully slow. I didn't have this problem with the 14.1 release. In one instance, the "circle search clock" (for lack of a better name) just hung there while I tried to access "TiVo Suggestions". After 2 minutes, I hit back, then tried again. It popped up, but slowly.
> 
> ...


+1


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

b_scott said:


> browsed my second DVR, clicked left to go back, then clicked LiveTV. Infinite spinning circle for 5 minutes, unresponsive. *Show continued recording*, live tv was playing in the corner, but no button presses would do ANYTHING. Light showed when the button presses happened but no response. Had to pull the plug just to regain control of my Tivo.
> 
> I just lost Burn Notice to the f'ing thing. WTF.


No, you lost Burn Notice because of your impatience. It sounds like the TiVo doesn't like you, and that you should return it before you have a stroke...


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

orangeboy said:


> No, you lost Burn Notice because of your impatience. It sounds like the TiVo doesn't like you, and that you should return it before you have a stroke...


what? I couldn't do anything. My wife needed to watch a show live that wasn't set to record, I had no other option than to reboot. I assumed the show was recording but there was no way to be sure. Tivo shouldn't do this, and you know it. I've been a customer for 5 years, I'm not a noob here.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

b_scott said:


> what? I couldn't do anything. My wife needed to watch a show live that wasn't set to record, I had no other option than to reboot. I assumed the show was recording but there was no way to be sure. Tivo shouldn't do this, and you know it. I've been a customer for 5 years, I'm not a noob here.


I believe what the other poster was trying to say was if you would of waited and not pressed any buttons it most likely would of timed out to live tv. This is the case for many of the "lockups" using the new UI.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

i waited 5 minutes, i had no indication it would ever unlock. I didn't have time to wait around and hope...


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

b_scott said:


> i waited 5 minutes, i had no indication it would ever unlock. I didn't have time to wait around and hope...


I'm with you b_scott, I wouldn't have waited longer and we shouldn't have to either. I've had the same issue where the TiVo Premiere takes forever to do something.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

b_scott said:


> browsed my second DVR, clicked left to go back, then clicked LiveTV. Infinite spinning circle for 5 minutes, unresponsive. Show continued recording, live tv was playing in the corner, but no button presses would do ANYTHING. Light showed when the button presses happened but no response. Had to pull the plug just to regain control of my Tivo.
> 
> I just lost Burn Notice to the f'ing thing. WTF.





b_scott said:


> i waited 5 minutes, i had no indication it would ever unlock. I didn't have time to wait around and hope...


So it sounds like you value your time over your recordings. There. Just FYP.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Um- not making excuses here. 

BUT, depending on your setup, you could have tried to watch the show (gasp) with your television tuner. Especially as it was live and not recorded or in your buffer.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> Um- not making excuses here.
> 
> BUT, depending on your setup, you could have tried to watch the show (gasp) with your television tuner. Especially as it was live and not recorded or in your buffer.


Some of have (gasp) digital cable where the TiVo is the only way to watch TV. So lose the sarcasm OK ?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> Um- not making excuses here.
> 
> BUT, depending on your setup, you could have tried to watch the show (gasp) with your television tuner. Especially as it was live and not recorded or in your buffer.


What is the point of connecting the Tv tuner? You would have to watch Live TV. Who wants to watch Live Tv and spend 33% of every hour watching commercials.

I would rather pay money to download a show than watch it live and watch TV on the networks schedule.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lujan said:


> I'm with you b_scott, I wouldn't have waited longer and we shouldn't have to either. I've had the same issue where the TiVo Premiere takes forever to do something.


I'm not saying it is acceptable. But most likely it would of timed out to live tv and the poster wouldn't have lost any part of their recordings if they would of waited a few more minutes.


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## RoundTuit (Dec 29, 2006)

orangeboy said:


> Are these lockups not fixed with Thumbs Up>Thumbs Down>Play>Play?


I have used that successfully to escape the green SoD, but this time it hung with a completely blank screen. My recollection is that is the first thing I tried, but I could be mistaken.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

RoundTuit said:


> I have used that successfully to escape the green SoD, but this time it hung with a completely blank screen. My recollection is that is the first thing I tried, but I could be mistaken.


Aside from the linked post, where did this come from? I've been around the block a few times but that sounds fishy to me. No offense but ....


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## RoundTuit (Dec 29, 2006)

rocko said:


> Aside from the linked post, where did this come from? I've been around the block a few times but that sounds fishy to me. No offense but ....


Not sure what you are getting at, but here are the original posts I believe orangeboy was referring to:



RoundTuit said:


> I experienced a hang yesterday on 14.4 unlike the hangs I have experienced pre 14.4. I clicked on TiVo (Menu on Harmony 900) to enter TiVo central and got a completely blank screen. I could not exit out of it and TiVo would not respond to any commands. I had to force a reboot.
> 
> Occasionally when I enter TiVo Central the screen goes blank and stalls while the software loads info for the Discovery Bar which can be several seconds even though connected to a gigabit LAN with 25/25 Internet access via FIOS. I waited several minutes before rebooting.
> 
> I thought it might be a networking problem, but while I was waiting I checked Internet access from my other TiVo's and all was ok. Both of my S3's could connect to TiVo service.





jwagner010 said:


> @RoundTuit - I have had a number of these lock ups under 14.4. Its not as frequent as pre 14.4 but still requires you to pull the power cable. You do need to be patient as sometimes it will give you a blank screen and come back after 5 minutes, other times it stays there for ever and requires the power cord to be pulled. Lets hope Tivo can get its act together. I don't need a box that needs the power cable pulled every two weeks.


Not sure what you think is fishy.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

rocko said:


> Aside from the linked post, where did this come from? I've been around the block a few times but that sounds fishy to me. No offense but ....


I took it that the information came vicariously from TiVo Support:


harric said:


> ...*Called Tivo tech support*. It is a known issue with a software update coming out this week to fix this. In the mean time, *when it locks up, hit thumbs down, then thumbs up, play play play*. This will reload the HD GUI on the page ,and fix the issue.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

jrtroo said:


> Um- not making excuses here.
> 
> BUT, depending on your setup, you could have tried to watch the show (gasp) with your television tuner. Especially as it was live and not recorded or in your buffer.


I don't have coax sent to my TV.

So my newer Premiere regular just froze (PLEASE WAIT..) trying to back out of Netflix, for five minutes so I had to unplug it. Is something going around? :down::down:


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

RoundTuit said:


> Not sure what you are getting at, but here are the original posts I believe orangeboy was referring to:
> 
> Not sure what you think is fishy.


Fishy as in I've never, ever seen this mentioned anywhere - and the original info came from someone with 3 posts. Not that 3 posts means you're not credible - inexperienced, perhaps. Which brings us back to where did this little gem come from? Does it actually work?


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

rocko said:


> Fishy as in I've never, ever seen this mentioned anywhere - and the original info came from someone with 3 posts. Not that 3 posts means you're not credible - inexperienced, perhaps. Which brings us back to where did this little gem come from? Does it actually work?


Yep! Confirmed. I just tried it (sans lockup, but whatever). TD > TU > Play > Play resulted in a "bing!", about 10 seconds of TiVo Central (where I was), about 3 seconds of blank screen, then back to TiVo Central. Doing it in My Shows returned me to TiVo Central as well, which kind of makes sense. That's where you end up after a power plug pull...


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> Yep! Confirmed. I just tried it (sans lockup, but whatever). TD > TU > Play > Play resulted in a "bing!", about 10 seconds of TiVo Central (where I was), about 3 seconds of blank screen, then back to TiVo Central. Doing it in My Shows returned me to TiVo Central as well, which kind of makes sense. That's where you end up after a power plug pull...


I thought it was thumbs up first, then thumbs down or does it matter?


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## DCleary (Dec 20, 2008)

TrueTurbo said:


> So you belittle the people who have noticed a difference and dismiss them because *you* haven't noticed a difference! Nice. You must work in customer relations, right?


No intention to belittle. The latest update aside it just seems that some people or at least the ones that post here (could be fanboy/letter to the editor effect) seem satisfied with a product that is clearly not finished. I work indirectly in Customer Relations, doing customer loyalty research for large corporations. In my opinion Tivo is in trouble. That opinion isn't based upon any surveys I've seen but an extensive search of publicly available media does not point to a satisfied customer base. The use of their boxes by cable providers is a good sign though.


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## tucfjg (Dec 8, 2006)

My TiVo Premiere DVR was great from the beginning of install back in April. Have very high speed FIOS 25mb down and 10 MB up. Never a problem until 14.4 update. Real slow now. Sometimes seems stuck. If I wait a real long time (about 1 min. or so) it usually releases, Other wise I have to hit the TIVO button on the top of the remote and it will release the screen or blank screen after 10 or 15 seconds wait. Maybe the next update will fix this speed issue.


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## sghrush (Mar 8, 2005)

tucfjg said:


> My TiVo Premiere DVR was great from the beginning of install back in April. Have very high speed FIOS 25mb down and 10 MB up. Never a problem until 14.4 update. Real slow now. Sometimes seems stuck. If I wait a real long time (about 1 min. or so) it usually releases, Other wise I have to hit the TIVO button on the top of the remote and it will release the screen or blank screen after 10 or 15 seconds wait. Maybe the next update will fix this speed issue.


I noticed 14.4 slowed my Tivo Premiere down as well. Upon navigating between menus, I notice that my Tivo hangs more on the green SoD than previously with 14.1c.


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## CapnSensible (Jun 3, 2010)

sghrush said:


> I noticed 14.4 slowed my Tivo Premiere down as well. Upon navigating between menus, I notice that my Tivo hangs more on the green SoD than previously with 14.1c.


My experience has been that switching to the SD menus with 14.4 seems to speed things up and is more stable.


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## _Ryan_ (Apr 4, 2010)

Out of curiosity, has anyone posted video footage that shows the navigation speed of their HD menus using 14.4?

There are plenty of folks giving their opinion of how fast the menus are, and they vary pretty widely. I'm wondering if the menus on everyone's TiVos are operating at a pretty similar speed, but some people consider it to be faster than others...

bkdtv posted some youtube videos that show the menus operating a bit (I believe under a previous software revision), and they are pretty similar to the speed my menus operate at right now, which I consider to be rather slow. http://www.youtube.com/user/bkdtv

Anyone think it's worth starting a thread that shows the menus in operation by linking to youtube videos? it may be helpful to someone on the fence about whether to purchase one... Or maybe its a waste of time...

Thoughts?


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

_Ryan_ said:


> Out of curiosity, has anyone posted video footage that shows the navigation speed of their HD menus using 14.4?


It's not a bad idea, but it's tricky - navigation speed of menus is based on input vs. response time. Most videos would only show the response and not the time it took for the response to be completed. It would be somewhat helpful to show the green "processing" circle, but I don't think a simple video of the screen would tell the whole story.

Maybe the way around this would be to record footage of the buttons being pushed on the remote in the foreground, with the screen in the background displaying the results of the button push.


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## _Ryan_ (Apr 4, 2010)

DaveWhittle said:


> Maybe the way around this would be to record footage of the buttons being pushed on the remote in the foreground, with the screen in the background displaying the results of the button push.


I think you hit the nail on the head with that. Great idea.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

_Ryan_ said:


> There are plenty of folks giving their opinion of how fast the menus are, and they vary pretty widely. I'm wondering if the menus on everyone's TiVos are operating at a pretty similar speed, but some people consider it to be faster than others... bkdtv posted some youtube videos that show the menus operating a bit (I believe under a previous software revision), and they are pretty similar to the speed my menus operate at right now, which I consider to be rather slow. http://www.youtube.com/user/bkdtv


The problem is that there might also be a delay when buttons are pressed before anything happens on the screen. That lag cannot be captured or observed with a video, only by actually using the device. Otherwise, I agree, it seems sluggish. Usable, but sluggish.

I find that whole top banner thing (including the video preview window) to be distracting and annoying. Especially since it has to keep redrawing it over and over again. (Can you even turn off those annoying banner/icons on the top??)

In any case, thanks for the video link, this is the first time I have seen the HD menu's in action.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

I wish my premiere xl was as fast as showed in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/user/bkdtv
I would be happy as a lark.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

crxssi said:


> The problem is that there might also be a delay when buttons are pressed before anything happens on the screen. That lag cannot be captured or observed with a video, only by actually using the device. Otherwise, I agree, it seems sluggish. Usable, but sluggish.
> 
> I find that whole top banner thing (including the video preview window) to be distracting and annoying. Especially since it has to keep redrawing it over and over again. (Can you even turn off those annoying banner/icons on the top??)
> 
> In any case, thanks for the video link, this is the first time I have seen the HD menu's in action.


Switching to the SD menus eliminates the annoying top banner and speeds up response time.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

crxssi said:


> ...
> 
> I find that whole top banner thing (including the video preview window) to be distracting and annoying. Especially since it has to keep redrawing it over and over again. (Can you even turn off those annoying banner/icons on the top??)
> 
> ...


Message to TiVo Engineers!!! Ever heard of cache?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

caddyroger said:


> I wish my premiere xl was as fast as showed in this clip.
> http://www.youtube.com/user/bkdtv
> I would be happy as a lark.


This seems to be about the speed of my boxes. some things might be slightly faster, some things might be slightly slower and some things are the same speed.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I will have to check the video when I get home. I know it takes me about a minute and a half to 2 minutes to get from the top of my shows to the bottom compared to maybe 20 seconds in SD.


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

sthor said:


> Switching to the SD menus eliminates the annoying top banner and speeds up response time.


With all of the issues regarding the HD menus, why wouldn't a person wait until they were fixed? With the exception of the size of the hard drive, there isn't any major differences between the Premiere and the THD.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I will have to check the video when I get home. I know it takes me about a minute and a half to 2 minutes to get from the top of my shows to the bottom compared to maybe 20 seconds in SD.


I can see why people would use the SD menus in that instance. if it took me 2 minutes to go from the top of "My Shows" to the bottom. I would not want to use the HD menu. Heck if it even took one minute I wouldn't use the Hd menu.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> I can see why people would use the SD menus in that instance. if it took me 2 minutes to go from the top of "My Shows" to the bottom. I would not want to use the HD menu. Heck if it even took one minute I wouldn't use the Hd menu.


I only switced UIs saturday so maybe it will improve or I should reboot again. Right now I tend to pick shows on the same screen just so I dont have to scroll. I dread going from the top of my shows down to the bottom to access my pytivo and tivo desktop shares. Once I go into the shares though it is back to nearly instant since it is the SD ui.

I need to play with the options also to see if it improves anything since this is my first hdtv.


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I only switced UIs saturday so maybe it will improve or I should reboot again. Right now I tend to pick shows on the same screen just so I dont have to scroll. I dread going from the top of my shows down to the bottom to access my pytivo and tivo desktop shares. Once I go into the shares though it is back to nearly instant since it is the SD ui.
> 
> I need to play with the options also to see if it improves anything since this is my first hdtv.


Hit the ->| (30 sec skip forward) to bounce to the bottom of any list. Hit it again to bounce back to the top.

This doesn't excuse the speed - it's just a handy shortcut. This works for both HD and SD menus, BTW.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

rocko said:


> Hit the ->| (30 sec skip forward) to bounce to the bottom of any list. Hit it again to bounce back to the top.
> 
> This doesn't excuse the speed - it's just a handy shortcut. This works for both HD and SD menus, BTW.


thanks that is good to know.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rocko said:


> Hit the ->| (30 sec skip forward) to bounce to the bottom of any list. Hit it again to bounce back to the top.
> 
> ..............


:up::up:


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

sthor said:


> Switching to the SD menus eliminates the annoying top banner and speeds up response time.


And what happens if you want the other features of the HD menus and yet still don't want the annoying top banner?

And what happens one day when the SD menus are removed?

As a paying users, I think we should have the choice to turn that stuff off. ESPECIALLY when it degrades performance. Although in my case, the annoyance factor would even outweigh performance (believe it or not).


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

_Ryan_ said:


> Out of curiosity, has anyone posted video footage that shows the navigation speed of their HD menus using 14.4?
> 
> There are plenty of folks giving their opinion of how fast the menus are, and they vary pretty widely. I'm wondering if the menus on everyone's TiVos are operating at a pretty similar speed, but some people consider it to be faster than others...
> 
> ...


video looks like how mine acts.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> I will have to check the video when I get home. I know it takes me about a minute and a half to 2 minutes to get from the top of my shows to the bottom compared to maybe 20 seconds in SD.


seriously? top/bottom of now playing in SD is instant for me.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

b_scott said:


> seriously? top/bottom of now playing in SD is instant for me.


This is by doing the channel down option. Since I have the XL and they are usually full, I have many pages to scroll through and there is still a little bit of loading on each screen in SD but it is almost instant. It just takes a little bit because of so many pages.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

After watching the video, mine is nowhere near that fast. I am also on Fios 25/25 which I have no problem maxing if I want so it has nothing to do with my network.


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