# Mini slight hiccups watching video using Powerline.



## tgenius (Sep 15, 2006)

So I preface this by saying, yes I'm running Powerline AV500 to connect the Mini, and yes, I know its not supported officially, but for the most part, it works pretty damn solid.. except...

Every now and then, it appears that the video will freeze for about 1-2 seconds, and then will continue playing; It never gets to the point that the video actually errors out, but it temporarily stops it. I thought maybe it's related to the Mini so I rebooted it a few times but no dice. I have noticed it gets a little warm, not sure if that can impact it. Is anyone else running Powerline that has experienced something similar? Is there any recommendations to improve other than a direct ethernet or MOCA run?

Since I have a Roamio OTA, it does not have MOCA built in, so that would be an additional expense. For what it's worth, I have an Asus AC1900 802.11AC Router so perhaps a wireless bridge? 

Any help is greatly appreciated!!


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

It's very likely that the problem is your powerline adapters just not being able to handle the bandwidth requirements of the Mini all the time. You could try buying better quality powerline adapters that can handle higher bandwidth requirements or a wireless ethernet bridge, but honestly if I were you I'd just get a MoCA adapter.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

tgenius said:


> So I preface this by saying, yes I'm running Powerline AV500 to connect the Mini, and yes, I know its not supported officially, but for the most part, it works pretty damn solid.. except...
> 
> Every now and then, it appears that the video will freeze for about 1-2 seconds, and then will continue playing; It never gets to the point that the video actually errors out, but it temporarily stops it. I thought maybe it's related to the Mini so I rebooted it a few times but no dice. I have noticed it gets a little warm, not sure if that can impact it. Is anyone else running Powerline that has experienced something similar? Is there any recommendations to improve other than a direct ethernet or MOCA run?
> 
> ...


Hi,
If you want to go the wireless bridge, i.e., wifi to ethernet, you might consider trying the Linksys WUMC710 with some success. If you get a half decent signal use the 5GHz band for greater throughput, even if you get "less bars" than the 2.4GHz signal.
If you want to try MoCA, Meritline has some inexpensive units, $50 for a pair right now, but these are not 100% MoCA certified, i.e., you cannot set encryption or manually configure a specific channel, however they will work fine and will connect together or to an existing MoCA network. If you go this route, also pick up a couple MoCA filters off of Ebay to deal with any possible issues with your cable modem.
http://www.meritline.com/mygica-coma-cable-kit---p-68646.aspx
filters
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PPC-MoCA-SN...155674?hash=item2c9965f01a:g:YNoAAOSwBahVITbn


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

To save even more, a pair of DECA adapters is only $18 on Amazon. That's what I use. It does require isolating the coax to your Mini from the rest of your system, unlike Moca. My DECA adapters appear to be far faster (3-15x) than the Mertiline Moca adapters as well.

I have had very limited success with power line (which required monthly reboots) and wireless (which was too slow and choppy). DECA has been very fast and reliable.


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## tgenius (Sep 15, 2006)

So in an effort to keep things simple, will be trying some AV1200 powerline adapters instead of my existing AV500 to see if it improves. If it does, then it stays.

In terms of isolating the coaxial; I can do that as it is, I have 2 DirecTV lines, 1 OTA Direct run, and 1 Cable line for Cable Modem. The only issue I'm not entirely clear about is the multiswitch I am using now is like a 4X4 (non SWM) multiswitch so would probably have to swap that one out too to something else.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

tgenius said:


> So in an effort to keep things simple, will be trying some AV1200 powerline adapters instead of my existing AV500 to see if it improves. If it does, then it stays.
> 
> In terms of isolating the coaxial; I can do that as it is, I have 2 DirecTV lines, 1 OTA Direct run, and 1 Cable line for Cable Modem. The only issue I'm not entirely clear about is the multiswitch I am using now is like a 4X4 (non SWM) multiswitch so would probably have to swap that one out too to something else.


If you already have DirecTV, then you probably already have DECA. Just need to get the run to the Mini on the same network and stick a DECA adapter at the Mini end (don't connect the DirecTV coax directly to the Mini or you're fry it!). DECA is compatible with any multiswitch as far as I know. I've used it with and without SWIM, if I recall correctly.


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## jim1971 (Oct 11, 2015)

I didn't read all the previous replies so this may contain information already covered.

Powerline is unreliable with Tivo, even if it appears to work well with other devices on your home network. There appear to be some incompatibilities. In my case, I couldn't get a mini to talk to a Premier 4 tuner model using poweline on the premier. After changing the premier back to a wireless client device, the mini snapped back to life and continues to work flawlessly.

In my home, 2.4GHZ is clear and I have no neighbor conflicts. Much of my network is wired cat6. Many houses have overworked wireless and Tivo will be unreliable even as a wireless client on 2.4GHZ. You could try building a 5GHZ wireless client bridge by converting a router using DDWRT or by buying a 5GHZ wireless bridge, assuming your main router has a 5GHZ capability.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

mdavej said:


> To save even more, a pair of DECA adapters is only $18 on Amazon. That's what I use. It does require isolating the coax to your Mini from the rest of your system, unlike Moca. My DECA adapters appear to be far faster (3-15x) than the Mertiline Moca adapters as well.


Huh? The data sheet for the Meritline says they are MoCA 1.1 compatible and they quote the usual 175Mbps data rate. Since DECA is just MoCA at lower frequencies, they should be roughly the same speed.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Just get a MoCA adapter if you've got coax available. You're just screwing yourself if you're trying to cheap out with anything else. They're just not that expensive.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> Just get a MoCA adapter if you've got coax available. You're just screwing yourself if you're trying to cheap out with anything else. They're just not that expensive.


+1

If you have coax, you should just use MoCA. Powerline or wireless bridges should be last resorts for people without either coax or wired ethernet options. TiVo sells them on their website for $50, or a pair for $90.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

snerd said:


> Huh? The data sheet for the Meritline says they are MoCA 1.1 compatible and they quote the usual 175Mbps data rate. Since DECA is just MoCA at lower frequencies, they should be roughly the same speed.


DECA is not only a different frequency but also half-duplex, not full-duplex like Moca. I've confirmed it with my own speed tests that even one way transfers don't quite reach 175. If you need higher rates, stick with real Moca. But for $7.50 per node versus $50 per node, I can live with it.

Google Deca speed and you'll get a lot of hits stating the following:
"The DECA network is a shared 200Mb/s, or the same speed as full duplex 100Mb/s Ethernet".


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## hazelnus111 (Feb 4, 2013)

Probably the 1200 won't make a difference as much as if you use MIMO powerline adapters. If you want to check the speed of your current adpaters, the ZyXel configuration utility (I downloaded v7.0 from the ZyXel website) allows you to see real time speed on non-ZyXel power line adapters.


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## hazelnus111 (Feb 4, 2013)

I've used Powerline adapters previously and had so many drops I ran an Ethernet cable through the house. I finally got MOCA and have not regretted it. Fast speeds and zero drops/hiccups.


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

mdavej said:


> DECA is not only a different frequency but also half-duplex, not full-duplex like Moca. I've confirmed it with my own speed tests that even one way transfers don't quite reach 175. If you need higher rates, stick with real Moca. But for $7.50 per node versus $50 per node, I can live with it.
> 
> Google Deca speed and you'll get a lot of hits stating the following:
> "The DECA network is a shared 200Mb/s, or the same speed as full duplex 100Mb/s Ethernet".


OK, then why did you say "My DECA adapters appear to be far faster (3-15x) than the Mertiline Moca adapters as well." That is why I said "Huh?".


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

snerd said:


> OK, then why did you say "My DECA adapters appear to be far faster (3-15x) than the Mertiline Moca adapters as well." That is why I said "Huh?".


Because if you read the reviews on the Meritline ones, people are claiming they're getting bitrates around 9Mbps, which is abysmal. That's not even enough to play even low bitrate HD video. Others claim 30-40Mbps which is still horrible. If the reports are accurate, I wouldn't touch those Meritline adapters. They appear to be fatally flawed.

I'm not saying DECA is faster than Moca. It definitely isn't. I'm saying the Meritline Moca adapters are apparently terrible and far inferior to DECA, according to the reviews at least.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

mdavej said:


> Because if you read the reviews on the Meritline ones, people are claiming they're getting bitrates around 9Mbps, which is abysmal. That's not even enough to play even low bitrate HD video. Others claim 30-40Mbps which is still horrible. If the reports are accurate, I wouldn't touch those Meritline adapters. They appear to be fatally flawed.
> 
> I'm not saying DECA is faster than Moca. It definitely isn't. I'm saying the Meritline Moca adapters are apparently terrible and far inferior to DECA, according to the reviews at least.


Hi,
A couple of small points regarding those MoCA adapters from Meritline. There are 11 actual reviews in total. 2 of those reviews mention ballpark speeds. The one you mention as stating "9Mbps" actually should have been "9MB/s" which is really 72Mbps and the only other mention of speed rates was a single review that gave a 30-40 Mbps estimate with no mention of how that was estimated. I have actually used these adapters and compared them to Motorola units as well as Actiontec MoCA 1.1 units on the same system and I found no significant differences in transfer speeds between any of them. The 2 reviews combined, especially without even trying them yourself and being portrayed accurately, are hardly significant. The gent who mentioned the lower estimate also rated the product with 5 stars by the way.
Granted they are more money than Deca adapters from some sources but at $25 per unit, they are half the price of most MoCA 1.1 adapters.
I have used the Deca products myself and actually have about 30 boxed up in my garage that averaged me about $3.50 each including the power supply and while there are some circumstances where they can be readily adapted to some cabling setups they tend to be a bit harder if not impossible for new users with regular cable internet and tv. The point being that based on the number of MoCA problem posts you see here, isolating the cabling to successfully use Deca adapters is a bit more difficult in practice and on some systems with hidden, cascaded splitters even impossible.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I was all set to buy some of the Meritline adapters myself until I read the reviews. I figured the guy getting 30Mbps speeds but giving them 5 stars anyway simply had no idea how far off spec that was. It's very reasonable to see those numbers and conclude something is seriously wrong. If I had seen just one review stating normal speeds, I'd have dismissed the others.

I'm actually very glad to hear from you that nothing is really wrong with them after all. I'd happily replace my Deca with Moca for those prices since they are not only faster but work fine with cable TV frequencies, unlike my Deca system. The low price was the only reason I chose Deca over Moca to begin with.

Thanks for setting the record straight.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

If you're getting a MoCA adapter just for a Mini, just get a 1.1 adapter, but if you're building a network for other stuff, get MoCA 2.0. The transfer rates are way above 1.1, and they offer the best alternative to actual wired Ethernet.


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## jge968 (Nov 8, 2015)

I used Deca adapter. It's running smoothly.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> If you're getting a MoCA adapter just for a Mini, just get a 1.1 adapter, but if you're building a network for other stuff, get MoCA 2.0. The transfer rates are way above 1.1, and they offer the best alternative to actual wired Ethernet.


Re: MoCA 2.0 adapters, see: *Actiontec MoCA 2.0* and *TiVo Bridge*


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## tgenius (Sep 15, 2006)

A million thanks to mdavej! Got my DECA adapters working this morning and it works pretty well. The only thing I notice is the Network light is solid Amber and not Solid Green, but performance wise it gets the job done, plays without issue, and My shows doesn't give any errors about not finding the box, so for $15 bucks it cost I'm very happy.

Can anyone recommend the best 1X6 splitter so I can have all my cables connected without impact? Should I use a SWM splitter? I'm also of the mindset if it isn't broke...


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Re: MoCA 2.0 adapters, see: *Actiontec MoCA 2.0* and *TiVo Bridge*


Iiiinteresting. Too bad they didn't use the bonded one, but the black version (Actiontec brand) is available on Amazon anyway.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Iiiinteresting. Too bad they didn't use the bonded one, but the black version (Actiontec brand) is available on Amazon anyway.


I'm trying to confirm with TiVo (via Facebook) that the BOLT is limited to the standard MoCA 2.0 rate (400+Mbps), and NOT capable of "extended" MoCA 2.0 --- which would make selection of the standard/non-bonded adapter for special TiVo branding sensible.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> I'm trying to confirm with TiVo (via Facebook) that the BOLT is limited to the standard MoCA 2.0 rate (400+Mbps), and NOT capable of "extended" MoCA 2.0 --- which would make selection of the standard/non-bonded adapter for special TiVo branding sensible.


That's true. I was thinking for an application where the MoCA network is also being used as a backbone for a computer network.


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## DallasGG (May 5, 2015)

tgenius said:


> So I preface this by saying, yes I'm running Powerline AV500 to connect the Mini, and yes, I know its not supported officially, but for the most part, it works pretty damn solid.. except...
> 
> Every now and then, it appears that the video will freeze for about 1-2 seconds, and then will continue playing; It never gets to the point that the video actually errors out, but it temporarily stops it. I thought maybe it's related to the Mini so I rebooted it a few times but no dice. I have noticed it gets a little warm, not sure if that can impact it. Is anyone else running Powerline that has experienced something similar? Is there any recommendations to improve other than a direct ethernet or MOCA run?
> 
> ...


I've had this problem a couple of times...the audio/video will stutter every few minutes...very annoying. When this happens, I reset my powerline adapters and then the problem goes away and everything works fine. I'm guessing it has something to do with how the powerline adapters are communicating with each other....but not sure about that. I use the TRENDnet TPL-406E2K Powerline 500 AV Nano Adapter kit.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I've not seen it mentioned but powerline is sensitive to doing dumb things like plugging the adapter into a surge protector, always make sure they're plugged directly into an outlet or into an old school extension cord.

I've had nothing but fantastic luck with my mini and primary desktop on PNA up on my 2nd floor with no COAX or Cat5, done right with decent wiring, PNA has more than enough capacity for a mini.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> That's true. I was thinking for an application where the MoCA network is also being used as a backbone for a computer network.


Concur. (I'd advocate bonded 2.0 for a better backbone, but bonded 2.0 is overkill if you're ONLY looking to maximize a MoCA-connected BOLT's throughput.) We'll have to see what they put in the BOLT "Pro."


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> I've had nothing but fantastic luck with my mini and primary desktop on PNA up on my 2nd floor with no COAX or Cat5, done right with decent wiring, PNA has more than enough capacity for a mini.


PNA =! Powerline networking. HPNA is a totally different technology.


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## bgburges (Dec 27, 2011)

My wife wanted the TV moved in the kitchen. No cable TV or CAT 5 where she wanted it. So I connected the cable in the old location to a MOCA, took the ethernet cable out of the MOCA and put it into a powerline AV 500 on the same electrical circuit in the kitchen. Out of the paired AV500 I connected the ethernet port into the mini. It connects up great. I can see the connected Tivos and select live Tv or recorded shows, however the audio drops out after 10-15 seconds of playing live TV or a recorded show. But if I play something through Netflix on the mini its perfect. Any ideas welcomed.
Thanks!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

bgburges said:


> My wife wanted the TV moved in the kitchen. No cable TV or CAT 5 where she wanted it. So I connected the cable in the old location to a MOCA, took the ethernet cable out of the MOCA and put it into a powerline AV 500 on the same electrical circuit in the kitchen. Out of the paired AV500 I connected the ethernet port into the mini. It connects up great. I can see the connected Tivos and select live Tv or recorded shows, however the audio drops out after 10-15 seconds of playing live TV or a recorded show. But if I play something through Netflix on the mini its perfect. Any ideas welcomed.
> Thanks!


How about ABC? It usually has the lowest bit rate for any "HD" network.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> How about ABC? It usually has the lowest bit rate for any "HD" network.


bpburges, you can check the relative bitrates of your TiVo recordings using KMTTG. Once you've refreshed the DVR show listing in KMTTG, the bitrates will be listed in the far-right column.

(What JoeK is suggesting is that Netflix and other streaming services don't exhibit any problems because they don't require the same network bandwidth as an HD program broadcast via digital cable TV. *See this post* for a comparison of Netflix bitrates to cable HD recordings.)


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> bpburges, you can check the relative bitrates of your TiVo recordings using KMTTG. Once you've refreshed the DVR show listing in KMTTG, the bitrates will be listed in the far-right column.
> 
> (What JoeK is suggesting is that Netflix and other streaming services don't exhibit any problems because they don't require the same network bandwidth as an HD program broadcast via digital cable TV. *See this post* for a comparison of Netflix bitrates to cable HD recordings.)


That's a nice post. Thanks. You don't happen to have the same info for Amazon?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> That's a nice post. Thanks. You don't happen to have the same info for Amazon?


*Amazon's *recommendation is much less detailed...
SD (480p): 900 Kbits/sec
*HD (1080p): 3.5 Mbits/sec*
UHD: 15 Mbits/sec

(link1, link2, link3, link4)​
*Hulu's *requirements aren't so neatly wrapped-up, but they appear to be:
SD (480p): 1.5 Mbits/sec
*HD (720p): 3.0 Mbits/sec*

(link)

* The page has no info for TiVo, so we'll just assume it's the same as for the rest of the set-top devices -- which may be a poor assumption, given the TiVo app is out-of-date.​
May as well include* Netflix's* bandwidth requirements, as well...
0.5 Megabits per second - Required broadband connection speed
1.5 Megabits per second - Recommended broadband connection speed
3.0 Megabits per second - Recommended for SD quality
*5.0 Megabits per second - Recommended for HD quality*
25 Megabits per second - Recommended for Ultra HD quality

(link)​
*VUDU* video formats and requirements are (link):SD 480p	up to Dolby Digital Plus® 5.1	1Mbps
*HD 720p	up to Dolby Digital Plus® 7.1	2.25 Mbps
HDX 1080p	up to Dolby Digital Plus® 7.1	4.5 Mbps*​
Note: *HD recordings on a TiVo can require 15+Mbps*.

----
edit: late addition of Vudu


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

In spite of Amazon's posted specs, I was never able to get HD until my ISP surpassed 20 Mbps. I think it's a bug in how Amazon calculates the required bandwidth. Maybe it's been fixed by now, but that's how it worked a few years ago.


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## bgburges (Dec 27, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the help. SD stations worked. Ive decided to run coax to make it all work right


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## Hockey9 (Jan 21, 2002)

I want to throw in my two cents with success using a Ubiquiti Nanostation Loco M5 to bridge my 8 port switch downstairs.

I was using TP-Link's PowerLine Adapter 500Mbps Model TL-PA4010

We did not build this house and there is no way to run Cat5/6 from my 24 port Gig Switch on the main floor to the basement to feed my TivoXL4 and the rest of my Media stack. I have tried repeaters from Netgear and various vendors. I thought I finally found some comfort with these powerlines. I would get the occasional "network not available Please try later" but transfer would occur .. before I would get errors constantly with repeaters and AP bridges.

I have a half a basement with poured concrete walls between my Asus 5Ghz AP and my tivo. Upon testing I found that the powerline transferred at 5Mbps according to the Tivo Network diagnostic that shows transfer speed. The Ubiquiti transferred the same show at 60Mbps. I had to mount the Nano high on the wall to "see" the Asus AP. I did pick the shortest route for the Powerlines and avoided extension cords and multi outlet strips for the best performance. The Powerlines do work but not for me.


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## DallasGG (May 5, 2015)

DallasGG said:


> I've had this problem a couple of times...the audio/video will stutter every few minutes...very annoying. When this happens, I reset my powerline adapters and then the problem goes away and everything works fine. I'm guessing it has something to do with how the powerline adapters are communicating with each other....but not sure about that. I use the TRENDnet TPL-406E2K Powerline 500 AV Nano Adapter kit.


I thought my Powerline adapters were working just fine but then they started dropping audio every so often (again) and occasionally losing the connection. Resetting the powerline adapters no longer fixed the problem. Like one other person in this thread, my Roku works just fine with the Powerline adapters but the Mini not so well and are very finicky. It would be nice if Tivo could change the buffering process so that the Mini could stream better.

Anyway, I finally broke down and ran a 50 ft ethernet cable from my router in my bedroom to the Tivo in my living room and everything works perfectly now...no audio dropouts or lost connections. Even the Mini in my kitchen that gets the signal via a wifi bridge from a Trendnet TEW-751DR N300 router to an Airlink AP761W bridge works great. I would have the thought the wifi bridge connection would be the weak link but it turned out it was the powerline adapters.


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