# How about letting us clear the "recently deleted" folder



## twhiting9275

I swear, spending an hour just deleting items out of my "recently deleted" folder is *not* how I want to spend my evening. Why do I want to? Well, that would be none of your business, but I'll be nice and tell you why anyways:
There are a number of reasons why you would want to:

#1: You're a neat freak, and you want to keep the old stuff elsewhere. I keep everything on the PC, the Tivo is just a stepping point. The PC has immensely more storage (around 3T) and can do so much more such as serve media to front room, bedroom. Why WOULD I want to keep something on one Tivo, really?

#2: Unbox
Believe it or not, clearing the file from the "recently deleted" list will clear up the title for download to another box, or to your PC.

This reminds me of the whole "Are you sure you want to quit" or "are you sure you want to restart, everything will be lost" prompts in video games, only it's WORSE. Not only do I get confronted with the "do you really want to delete" the program, but I've already told it to delete itself.

Either provide us a way to mass delete "ie: empty the recently deleted items" folder, or let us opt out of this nonsense, because it IS just that, nonsense. There's even a perfect place for the thing in the menu tree as it is, in restart or reset system.

I understand some may find this useful, but, come on, when something sits in there for weeks on end, or when I have to go through and delete 150 items from 2 DVR's manually, there's a problem, a big, big problem. I was lucky enough to have a Tivo back when this WASN'T a problem (ie: there was no deleted items folder), and I saw the problem then that this would become, and that was only with one DVR.

Come on, Tivo, this isn't a "feature", it's an annoyance the way you've implemented it! Give your customers back control over THEIR DVRs and stop wasting their time!


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## wmcbrine

Unbox, OK. But seriously, how many of those do you have? There's no rational reason to purge anything else from Recently Deleted, except perhaps to hide it. And no, I don't think TiVo should spend any time on accommodating irrational reasons. There's no way it takes an hour, either. :down:


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## Adam1115

Not a big deal for me, but I don't watch a lot of porn while my wife is gone.... <Shrug>


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## twhiting9275

wmcbrine said:


> Unbox, OK. But seriously, how many of those do you have? There's no rational reason to purge anything else from Recently Deleted, except perhaps to hide it. And no, I don't think TiVo should spend any time on accommodating irrational reasons. There's no way it takes an hour, either. :down:


And once again, with the irrational suggestions about porn. No, I don't watch it, not married, so it wouldn't matter if I did.

How many "unbox" programs do I have? It stacks up when you've been doing business with Amazon for years like I have. Right now, unbox has 50 clickable programs for me, many of those having seasons of TV to download, so you do the math.

As far as it taking an hour? Yes, it does, when you have to manually go through 150 programs and clear each and every one of those out.

WHY it's needed doesn't matter. What matters is that it's needed. Is it "irrational" to want to empty everything out of a folder at once? Nope. It's actually expected to be able to. Windows, Linux, Mac (IIRC), same thing, you want to delete something, it's not "delete it one by one", it's delete it all at once, OR you can delete it one by one. Tivo is vastly behind the times here.

Like I said, I get that the tool is useful (to some), but that doesn't mean you have to impose on everyone for the some that actually find it useful. It really doesn't take THAT long to write something into a menu to remove it all.


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## Adam1115

twhiting9275 said:


> And once again, with the irrational suggestions about porn. No, I don't watch it, not married, so it wouldn't matter if I did.


It's the only relational reason to want such a feature.

It's like wanting to write zeros to all of the empty space on your PC because someone might want to recover data on it.

It is ALREADY DELETED, there is no reason to delete it further (unless you don't want someone to see what you watch). It affects NOTHING.



twhiting9275 said:


> WHY it's needed doesn't matter. What matters is that it's needed. Is it "irrational" to want to empty everything out of a folder at once? Nope. It's actually expected to be able to. Windows, Linux, Mac (IIRC), same thing, you want to delete something, it's not "delete it one by one", it's delete it all at once, OR you can delete it one by one.


WRONG. When you delete something it is still present on the hard drive. An undelete program can easily recovery it. TiVo's deleted folder is simply an undelete program.


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## twhiting9275

Adam1115 said:


> It is ALREADY DELETED, there is no reason to delete it further (unless you don't want someone to see what you watch). It affects NOTHING.


Wrong. It affects a number of things, such as space available and unbox. Who cares about *why* it needs to be there. Why should I have to rationalize an idea to fit your standards? I shouldn't.

Yes, I realize the data still exists technically, but that's not the point. The point is I don't want to look at 100+ "recently deleted" items, and I shouldn't have to go through and clean them out one by one simply because Tivo can't take 5 minutes and put something together. Seriously, that's all it'd take. One line in the "restart or reset Tivo", or an option to make it gone forever, without this "recently deleted" BS.

In the number of years since it's come into play, how many times have I used it? Not *once*. Am I unusual? Maybe, maybe not, but that's not the point. The point is that it is an annoyance, NOT a "feature". Any time I have to do more work to get something done, it is an improper method to handling things. When I have to click "delete", then select really delete, then confirm it, 100+ times, THAT is not a feature, but an annoyance.

Maybe you like trash hanging around forever, maybe not. Really I don't care. The point is that this needs to be addressed, and it *really* wouldn't take that much to address it in a professional manner


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## Adam1115

twhiting9275 said:


> Wrong. It affects a number of things, such as space available and unbox.


I don't believe it affects anything. I've never witnessed the unbox issue, and I've been involved with that since it was beta. "A number"? You've only named one, and that's iffy at best.



twhiting9275 said:


> Who cares about *why* it needs to be there. Why should I have to rationalize an idea to fit your standards? I shouldn't.


Because you're trying to argue that TiVo should change it, and nobody agrees. It's fine the way it is. It works the way it is supposed to.



twhiting9275 said:


> Yes, I realize the data still exists technically, but that's not the point. The point is I don't want to look at 100+ "recently deleted" items, and I shouldn't have to go through and clean them out one by one simply because Tivo can't take 5 minutes and put something together. Seriously, that's all it'd take. One line in the "restart or reset Tivo", or an option to make it gone forever, without this "recently deleted" BS.


You don't have to look at it. You don't have to clean things out. Ignore it, pretend it's not there.

This is a bit OCD if you ask me...


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## twhiting9275

Adam1115 said:


> I don't believe it affects anything. I've never witnessed the unbox issue, and I've been involved with that since it was beta. "A number"? You've only named one, and that's iffy at best.


I guess since *you've* never witnessed it it doesn't exist, right? Wrong. Unbox *does* keep tally of what's on your Tivo, and simply clicking "delete now" does not remove it from the "available" list. You must actually delete it from the tivo permamently.

Again, this is *fine* if you have to do this to one program, but when you have to clear out better than 100 at a time, it is an *annoyance*, and *not* a feature.



> It's fine the way it is.


To those that like to live in a world of pretend, you're right it is. The reality though is that it's not. I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and "pretend" something isn't annoying, or a nuisance, I'm going to call it just what it is. This *really* would take very little time to do here.


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## wmcbrine

It absolutely does not affect space available. Any time a new recording needs the space, the Recently Deleted programs will be the first to go.

Actually, the easiest way to clear out Recently Deleted automatically would be to turn on Suggestions. I assume you have them off, because there's no way otherwise for the RD folder to get as full as you're describing. Suggestions take priority over RD items just as user-scheduled recordings take priority over Suggestions. Your pointless hatred of RD probably extends to Suggestions, but at least it would clear out RD for you without you having to do anything.


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## twhiting9275

wmcbrine said:


> Actually, the easiest way to clear out Recently Deleted automatically would be to turn on Suggestions.


Which would mean even more has to be deleted. Again, more work, and even then, more garbage on my Tivo I don't want or need


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## mikeyts

wmcbrine said:


> It absolutely does not affect space available. Any time a new recording needs the space, the Recently Deleted programs will be the first to go.


wmcbrine is right--the Recently Deleted folder is like your desktop trash can in Windows. There's never any real need to purge it because it will be automatically reclaimed when space gets short. The only reason I can think of to purge it is because you don't want anyone to see what you've been recording or downloading.

If TiVo chooses to add this to their lists of user suggested "improvements", it will get absolute bottom priority. It ain't broke and they're not likely to "fix" it.


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## twhiting9275

mikeyts said:


> It ain't broke and they're not likely to "fix" it.


Wrong
They "broke" it to begin with, and yes it is broken.


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## wmcbrine

twhiting9275 said:


> Which would mean even more has to be deleted.


No. First -- it's the same amount of space, whether it's allocated to RD or Suggestions, so it would be roughly the same number of programs. Second -- there is absolutely zero reason to delete a Suggestion. You don't even have the Unbox issue there.


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## mikeyts

twhiting9275 said:


> Wrong
> They "broke" it to begin with, and yes it is broken.


Not true, but I don't expect to convince you of that.

There probably is an issue with Unbox that could be addressed. When you delete an Unbox download, they should delete it completely, without placing it in Recently Deleted. If you made a mistake deleting it and you want it back, you can just download it again.


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## lrhorer

Adam1115 said:


> Because you're trying to argue that TiVo should change it, and nobody agrees. It's fine the way it is. It works the way it is supposed to.


Exactly. It's an elegant and attractive solution to an issue which gave me more than one annoying moment prior to TiVoWeb's implementation and then later TiVo's.



Adam1115 said:


> This is a bit OCD if you ask me...


A bit? 'More like a minor psychotic break. The guy's been given a perfectly viable solution for eliminating the Amazon VOD issue that has large benefits of its own, yet still he whines that everyone else should be saddled with limitations that meet his irrational requirements.

I've a big wheel of hard cheese to go with that whine...

To the OP: `Take a hike. Your demands are unreasonable and the justification for them is at the very least specious. Expecting Tivo to implement a feature in a way that only suits your needs is just foolish at best and unconscionably self-centered at worst. While it's true it woud not take much development on TiVo's part to implement this, it simply is not an issue on which I woud care for TiVo to spend development cycles. If TiVo has done such a poor job of writing its software, then why don't your write your own for the platform and offer it to everyone else for download?


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## MikeAndrews

mikeyts said:


> wmcbrine is right--the Recently Deleted folder is like your desktop trash can in Windows. There's never any real need to purge it because it will be automatically reclaimed when space gets short.


Actually not true for Windows.

I dunno about the "automatically reclaimed" because I've never noticed it.

I do know that my Windows XP desktop got really slow when deleting files because the recycle bin was too full. Evidently, Windows has to sequentially paw through the directory of deleted files to add one to end.


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## Adam1115

twhiting9275 said:


> To those that like to live in a world of pretend, you're right it is. The reality though is that it's not. I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and "pretend" something isn't annoying, or a nuisance, I'm going to call it just what it is. This *really* would take very little time to do here.


Hey look, I'm not trying to argue with you. Just saying it doesn't bother *me*, clearly it bothers you.

My point is just that you're not making a very compelling argument to convince TiVo to change it.

If you can't convince us, why do you think TiVo will be convinced to spend their money on something that only ONE PERSON cares about...? None of us think it's a problem. You do. We aren't wrong for thinking it's not a problem, and you're not wrong for thinking it is. It's just that TiVo will likely invest their development on features that the majority of people care about.


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## WhiskeyTango

If the OP hates having so much 'garbage' on his Tivo, why let the RD folder fill up to 150 items? The only programs that seem to be causing you a problem are the Unbox ones. So why not just delete them fully after viewing? Then it wouldn't take you an hour to clear them out. After deleting, just press ->, select, clear, select, and the program is gone for good. 

BTW, those 'garbage' programs remain on your Tivo whether or not you can see the RD folder. Do you just not like looking at a line of text that says Recently Deleted (100)? Is that what is really bothering you? By going through the RD folder and deleting everything, you are creating the annoyance yourself. There is no reason to permanantly delete files other than some sort of obsession.


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## reneg

The suggestion is valid. Just as a suggestion to allow the Tivo to be configured to never use the recently deleted folder where delete means no second chances. 

Out of curiousity, it took me less than 10 minutes to clear nearly 300 items from my recently deleted folder (Clear, Enter, Repeat).


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## Rob Helmerichs

reneg said:


> The suggestion is valid. Just as a suggestion to allow the Tivo to be configured to never use the recently deleted folder where delete means no second chances.


Which in practical terms would probably just mean concealing the Recently Deleted icon in Now Playing...


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## mikeyts

reneg said:


> The suggestion is valid. Just as a suggestion to allow the Tivo to be configured to never use the recently deleted folder where delete means no second chances.
> 
> Out of curiousity, it took me less than 10 minutes to clear nearly 300 items from my recently deleted folder (Clear, Enter, Repeat).


Whether the suggestion is valid or not, it seems extremely unlikely to make it anywhere near the top of TiVo's "new features wanted" list. Much more vital things, like "will be recorded" indicators in the guide displays (something every other DVR has) has loitered at the bottom of that list for years.


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## reneg

mikeyts said:


> Whether the suggestion is valid or not, it seems extremely unlikely to make it anywhere near the top of TiVo's "new features wanted" list. Much more vital things, like "will be recorded" indicators in the guide displays (something every other DVR has) has loitered at the bottom of that list for years.


I agree that it is extremely unlikely to make it in a release, however most feature suggestions posted here don't make it either. We continue to hope that someone is listening and acting on our feedback at Tivo.


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## lew

I agree with the OPs point. When deleting a show I'd like an option to delete it and not "send" it to the recently deleted folder. Alternately I'd like an option to delete shows in my recently deleted folder with a single key instead of 3. Highlight a show, hit the clear button and the program is gone without prompts. I think we need an "advanced or expert" mode to allow for advanced settings.

Some users want that feature for privacy. Adult programs. Don't want family members to see the kind of junk programs they watch (wrestling, soap operas). but I'll give you a reason that hasn't been mentioned.

Assume you never manually delete shows from your recently deleted folder and don't use suggestions. Almost every show you record will result in a show being removed from your recently deleted folder.

Assume you view a show you recorded a month ago. A show from the travel channel or discovery channel for example. You watch it, enjoy it and delete it. You discuss the show with other family members. Sounds good, they want to watch it.

Tivo removes shows from the recently deleted folder based on the date the show was recorded not on the date it was deleted. That means an old show is likely remain in the recently deleted folder for a short period of time, frequently less then 24 hours.

I manually delete enough shows from my recently deleted folder so shows I delete will be available to recover for at least a week. 

An option to remove shows from the recently deleted folder based on delete date and not record date makes sense to me.

For example, I recorded the entire second season of First Blood so I could watch the entire season over a week. I went to recover an episode the next day and it was gone. It wasn't the end of the world but the recently deleted folder doesn't work the way I'd like it to work.


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## Adam1115

Right, the recently deleted isn't a repository to store things you might want. It's an emergency recovery method for when you accidentally delete something. If someone might want to watch something, don't delete it.

It's sort of like the people who freak out because Outlook deletes everything older than 30 days in their deleted items...


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## lew

Adam1115 said:


> Right, the recently deleted isn't a repository to store things you might want. It's an emergency recovery method for when you accidentally delete something. If someone might want to watch something, don't delete it.
> 
> It's sort of like the people who freak out because Outlook deletes everything older than 30 days in their deleted items...


OK I accidently deleted an old show my daughter wanted to watch. The show was removed from my recently deleted folder the same night, so my DVR could record other shows. The next day my daughter wanted to view the show. No longer in the NPL (I deleted it) and no longer in the recently deleted folder (tivo removed it but kept shows that were deleted 2 weeks ago).

I manually delete shows from the recently deleted folder. My motivation would be reduced if tivo based the removal on date deleted and not date recorded. The longer a show remains in the recently deleted folder the smaller the chance the show was accidently deleted.

Date the program was recorded has doesn't necessarily indicate the probability the show was accidently deleted. I think date deleted is a better indication.


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## Adam1115

Ah, now I see what you mean...

It is annoying that it would delete a show recorded that day but leave an older show...


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## orangeboy

It could be a 1 2 option, like sort order or group/folder options in NPL.


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## lew

JMO but tivo should:

Remove shows from RDF based on delete date OR
Give us an option to do same OR
Make it easier to manually delete programs from RDF to avoid the issue.


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## lew

Adam1115 said:


> Ah, now I see what you mean...
> 
> It is annoying that it would delete a show *recorded* that day but leave an older show...


Not recorded that day but deleted that day.

Tivo removes a show from the RDF that was deleted that day, but recorded a month earlier. A show that was recorded today, and deleted today, will stay in the RDF. I'm more likely to want to recover a show that I deleted in the last day or two (regardless of when I recorded the show) then a show I deleted two weeks ago.

Look at the oldest show in your RDF. Delete a show that's older then the oldest show and that show will disappear from the RDF almost immediately after you delete it.


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## Langree

I never have issues with Unbox and my TiVo is constantly full. I very seldom delete anything manually and when I do I never clear it out of recently deleted.

The TiVo seems to do pretty well at space management on it's own. For me anyway.


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## daddioh

Adam1115 said:


> Hey look, I'm not trying to argue with you. Just saying it doesn't bother *me*, clearly it bothers you.
> 
> My point is just that you're not making a very compelling argument to convince TiVo to change it.
> 
> If you can't convince us, why do you think TiVo will be convinced to spend their money on something that only ONE PERSON cares about...? None of us think it's a problem. You do. We aren't wrong for thinking it's not a problem, and you're not wrong for thinking it is. It's just that TiVo will likely invest their development on features that the majority of people care about.


I find it interesting that several users go to bat for Tivo regarding features that have collected dust over the years. E.g., "None of us think it's a problem."

I've QA'd software now for almost ten years, and frankly, Tivo's UI is clunky, and slow to adapt. I'm annoyed with the inability to clear/reset/empty the Recently Deleted files that accumulate in the database. I won't obsess about it, but just want to point out that there are plenty of users who scratch their heads over silly features, mindless upsells, and plenty of users who are simply ticked off about it. These forums reflect that.

Which might explain why I watch or listen to more than half of my media on an older, rebuilt HP with MCE.


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## SpiritualPoet

FWIW: Each day (or every other day if not) I go to the recently deleted file and delete anything I absolutely don't want to keep. It takes me perhaps 5-10 minutes total. The person who began this thread should do so likewise and this way it won't take up to an hour to accomplish the same thing. Get rid of garbage as it happens and you won't have a room (er file) full of garbage. If the OP was to ever delete something accidentally then the OP would wish the present reminder: "ARE YOU SURE..." would be greatly appreciated and valuable -- that is, if TiVo does away with it.


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## scandia101

Adam1115 said:


> Right, the recently deleted isn't a repository to store things you might want. It's an emergency recovery method for when you accidentally delete something. If someone might want to watch something, don't delete it.


The RDF is exactly what anybody wants to use it for. It is not wrong to do something beyond your narrow scope.

*TiVo, TV your way.*
It really is that simple.


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## KJordan0

I came across this thread by Googling the RD issue. I actually have a problem with the RD folder and wish I could turn it off.

I have 6 programs in Now Playing: 5 half hour shows, and 1 one hour show, all regular definition (meaning not HD programs) all marked not to delete until I tell it to. However, I have 168 various deleted shows in the recently deleted folder.

I set the TiVo to record Conan's last show last night, and a local news program early this morning. I woke up this morning to find Conan's show was already automatically moved to the deleted folder this morning to make room for the half hour news show, yet stuff I deleted 9 months ago still sits in recently deleted.

I wish at the very least there was an option to completely empty it on demand, like the recycle bin in Windows. The guy who posted that it takes an hour to clear suff out was right. By the time you select each show, select delete permanently, and then answer the "are you sure" pop-up, it takes forever to clean out that folder.


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## orangeboy

KJordan0 said:


> I came across this thread by Googling the RD issue. I actually have a problem with the RD folder and wish I could turn it off.
> 
> I have 6 programs in Now Playing: 5 half hour shows, and 1 one hour show, all regular definition (meaning not HD programs) all marked not to delete until I tell it to. However, I have 168 various deleted shows in the recently deleted folder.
> 
> I set the TiVo to record Conan's last show last night, and a local news program early this morning. I woke up this morning to find Conan's show was already automatically moved to the deleted folder this morning to make room for the half hour news show, yet stuff I deleted 9 months ago still sits in recently deleted.
> 
> I wish at the very least there was an option to completely empty it on demand, like the recycle bin in Windows. The guy who posted that it takes an hour to clear suff out was right. By the time you select each show, select delete permanently, and then answer the "are you sure" pop-up, it takes forever to clean out that folder.


Are the shows in your Now Playing marked as Keep Until I Delete in the Season Pass, or did you alter those programs after they recorded? I believe the TiVo DVR will reserve the space for those shows set to KUID by Season Pass, even those shows not recorded yet. I don't know what logic is used to reserve the space, but I am confident that if you change the Season Passes from KUID to Keep At Most 10 (or greater), you won't see nearly as much deleting from the Now Playing List that you do now!


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## wmcbrine

KJordan0 said:


> I woke up this morning to find Conan's show was already automatically moved to the deleted folder this morning to make room for the half hour news show, yet stuff I deleted 9 months ago still sits in recently deleted.


It sounds like you have this problem. Try rebooting your TiVo.


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## WhiskeyTango

KJordan0 said:


> I came across this thread by Googling the RD issue. I actually have a problem with the RD folder and wish I could turn it off.
> 
> I have 6 programs in Now Playing: 5 half hour shows, and 1 one hour show, all regular definition (meaning not HD programs) all marked not to delete until I tell it to. However, I have 168 various deleted shows in the recently deleted folder.
> 
> I set the TiVo to record Conan's last show last night, and a local news program early this morning. I woke up this morning to find Conan's show was already automatically moved to the deleted folder this morning to make room for the half hour news show, yet stuff I deleted 9 months ago still sits in recently deleted.
> 
> I wish at the very least there was an option to completely empty it on demand, like the recycle bin in Windows. The guy who posted that it takes an hour to clear suff out was right. By the time you select each show, select delete permanently, and then answer the "are you sure" pop-up, it takes forever to clean out that folder.


Turning off the RD folder would only mean that you could no longer see its contents. All of those shows would still remain on the HD until they were overwritten. Were you able to recover Conan from the RD folder? There are times when it's a helpful tool.


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## Venomous Duck

I agree with the OP. The Tivo is essentially a small media PC. Every operating system out there has a mass delete function for deleted files. It wouldn't take much to code it into a maintenance update. It would be nice to choose RD folder and at the bottom of the page have a clear all option. I can see some one racking up lots of files if all you want is to auto tune a channel and set do delete after 24 hours. I'm sure it would see more use than half the other options. What amazes me more than not already having it there is the number of people that seemed to have taken the suggestion personally.


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## radjad

> I find it interesting that several users go to bat for Tivo regarding features that have collected dust over the years. E.g., "None of us think it's a problem."
> 
> I've QA'd software now for almost ten years, and frankly, Tivo's UI is clunky, and slow to adapt. I'm annoyed with the inability to clear/reset/empty the Recently Deleted files that accumulate in the database. I won't obsess about it, but just want to point out that there are plenty of users who scratch their heads over silly features, mindless upsells, and plenty of users who are simply ticked off about it. These forums reflect that.


This is an excellent point. I am amazed at how many people have responded in such a way that they see no benefit in being able to clear a deleted items folder. And even more amazed that they think it would be this huge burden of a task to add this feature. Who cares WHY one would want to do it, the point is they should be able to...it is not complicated. There is no reason that the user has no ability to do something this simple.


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## orangeboy

radjad said:


> This is an excellent point. I am amazed at how many people have responded in such a way that they see no benefit in being able to clear a deleted items folder. And even more amazed that they think it would be this huge burden of a task to add this feature. Who cares WHY one would want to do it, the point is they should be able to...it is not complicated. There is no reason that the user has no ability to do something this simple.


Have you actually read the posts of this thread?


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## ZeoTiVo

twhiting9275 said:


> As far as it taking an hour? Yes, it does, when you have to manually go through 150 programs and clear each and every one of those out.
> 
> It really doesn't take THAT long to write something into a menu to remove it all.





twhiting9275 said:


> simply because Tivo can't take 5 minutes and put something together. Seriously, that's all it'd take. One line in the "restart or reset Tivo", or an option to make it gone forever, without this "recently deleted" BS.


so lets see it takes you an hour to delete 100 files from RDF but TiVo can do all the coding for your remove all feature in 5 minutes 

Oh yeah , that is because they just put some text on a menu and magically hiting select when that text is highlighted just removes all the files , no logic or coding needed behind the menu option. 

Oh and I have yet to see an actual reason beyond "becuase I want it casue I don't like seeing the number in parantheses.

:up: however on the change to move things out of RDF base on delete date and time instead of record date and time. However that falls into the same boat of taking more than a small amount of time to change. Now the delete part of space management likely looks in an area first - RDF - suggestions and then - now playing but then uses the same chunk of code to figure out what to delete. So a new chunk of code would have to be written to do the delete by delete date and delete date may well not even be saved anywheer currently so that would have to be stored somewhere which means a change to the database of such attributes.

so you can have your own (rational and irrational) reasons to want a change but lets not think all these are just little thing that set TiVo back a couple hundred dollars. there is good money in any of this that TiVo has to portion out correctly based on getting some return - that return is likely counted in will it sell more boxes? Either of these features likely will not sell more boxes.

That is all for rationality - please return to your fun now.


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## orangeboy

ZeoTiVo said:


> so lets see it takes you an hour to delete 100 files from RDF but TiVo can do all the coding for your remove all feature in 5 minutes
> 
> Oh yeah , that is because they just put some text on a menu and magically hiting select when that text is highlighted just removes all the files , no logic or coding needed behind the menu option.
> 
> Oh and I have yet to see an actual reason beyond "becuase I want it casue I don't like seeing the number in parantheses.
> 
> :up: however on the change to move things out of RDF base on delete date and time instead of record date and time. However that falls into the same boat of taking more than a small amount of time to change. Now the delete part of space management likely looks in an area first - RDF - suggestions and then - now playing but then uses the same chunk of code to figure out what to delete. So a new chunk of code would have to be written to do the delete by delete date and delete date may well not even be saved anywheer currently so that would have to be stored somewhere which means a change to the database of such attributes.
> 
> so you can have your own (rational and irrational) reasons to want a change but lets not think all these are just little thing that set TiVo back a couple hundred dollars. there is good money in any of this that TiVo has to portion out correctly based on getting some return - that return is likely counted in will it sell more boxes? Either of these features likely will not sell more boxes.
> 
> That is all for rationality - please return to your fun now.


I wrote a similar response relating to the "ease" of adding/removing what the majority of users would deem a pointless feature, but then realized that those arguments had already been made! So I just asked: "Have you actually read the posts of this thread?"


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## forloop

The current *deletion system* ends up *filling your drive*. Think about that. Doesn't that seem counter intuitive? Sure it's like Gmail, but there you are abusing *their* resources. Why not just call it "Moved to this folder (1056)".

It's interesting because some users have reported that Suggestions wouldn't record after the drive was full. Users had to manually delete from RDF to get them working again (for awhile). A bug clearly (and fixed I think), but it shows that this complicated system has little benefit and many pitfalls.

- make it easy to empty
- make it disappear when it's empty
- allow it be automatically emptied nightly/weekly/etc


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## Rob Helmerichs

The drive will ALWAYS be full (once you've had the TiVo for a while). Deleted files aren't removed from the drive; their names are just removed from the To Do List. They don't really "go away" for good until a new show is recorded over them. RDF simply controls the order in which deleted files are overwritten, and gives you access to them until that point.


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## ZeoTiVo

orangeboy said:


> I wrote a similar response relating to the "ease" of adding/removing what the majority of users would deem a pointless feature, but then realized that those arguments had already been made! So I just asked: "Have you actually read the posts of this thread?"


did your post have an actual point? I added in my 2 cents on how changing the feature set of a TiVo is not a 5 minute job and gave some details as to why. If this did not meet your standards of posting then I suggest you put me on ignore


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## magnus

I want Tivo to work on items that have actual value. This has no value.


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## lew

ZeoTiVo said:


> did your post have an actual point? I added in my 2 cents on how changing the feature set of a TiVo is not a 5 minute job and gave some details as to why. If this did not meet your standards of posting then I suggest you put me on ignore


Purging programs from the RDF based on date deleted instead of date recorded makes a lot of sense to me. That's the reason why I manually remove some programs from my RDF.

I don't know how much time it would take to make the change but it makes a lot of sense. I'm much more likely to want to restore a program I deleted yesterday (regardless of when I recorded it) then a program I deleted a month ago.

The RDF is of no use to me if a program I just deleted may be removed immediately.


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## shwru980r

twhiting9275 said:


> #1: You're a neat freak
> 
> #2: Unbox
> Believe it or not, clearing the file from the "recently deleted" list will clear up the title for download to another box, or to your PC.


I wouldn't expect TIVO to cater to the "neat freak". The recently deleted folder is only one folder at the bottom of the now playing list. You don't even have to go into it unless you want to recover something or permanently delete it.

So you really only need to go into the recently deleted folder to permanently delete unboxed downloads that you want to download to another TIVO. That should only take a minute or two.

Most of the time you're spending is attributable to the "neat freak" issue. That time might be better spent seeking therapy for obsessive compulsive disorder.


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## lew

Kind of rude to suggest people who want a feature you don't want must have a personality disorder and should seek treatment.

I've read at least 3 valid reasons for wanting to remove programs from the RDF:
1) Unbox issues
2) privacy issues
3) want the ability to recover old programs, programs that have recently been deleted but will be the first program to be removed by tivo

I understand many people don't see the need for this feature. I understand it may never make tivo's "to do list" of new features. I don't understand why postes see the need to attack the mental health of people who have different opinions.



shwru980r said:


> So you really only need to go into the recently deleted folder to permanently delete unboxed downloads that you want to download to another TIVO. That should only take a minute or two.
> 
> Most of the time you're spending is attributable to the "neat freak" issue. That time might be better spent seeking therapy for obsessive compulsive disorder.


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## orangeboy

ZeoTiVo said:


> ...I suggest you put me on ignore


Thanks for the suggestion! I enjoy TCF much more after doing so. :up:


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## unitron

Rob Helmerichs said:


> --snip--
> 
> RDF simply controls the order in which deleted files are overwritten...
> 
> --snip--


And therein lies the problem. As the owner, that should be my decision. I should be the one in control of that order, not the machine.

(I happened upon this thread as a result of just having acquired an S2 DT and discovering the existence of said folder, all my previous experience being with S1's)


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## EvilMidniteBombr

I had read this thread once or twice and, to be honest, I agreed with everyone else that didn't see a need to delete the RD folder. That is until I upgraded my hard drive. In preparation for copying my TiVo drive to the new one, I deleted all of my Suggestions and several recordings that were just there. After having to manually delete over a hundred shows, a delete all would have been real nice. On the other hand, it's something that (hopefully) I'll only need once every few years.


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