# You guys are cracking me up with the 6.3 Thing!!



## mst3k (Jun 11, 2003)

No judgement here, just an observation. For months on this forum now its been,


"When is 6.3 coming?" "I heard some people already have it" "D* sux, why won't they give us the update in software?" "They aren't giving us the update because they want to promote their new DVR!" "I really hate D*" "Why can't they just give us 6.3 now?" "I heard that there is NO 6.3 update!" "Aliens took me into their ship last nite and showed me the 6.3 update, and it is amazing!!"
"Why do the aliens have 6.3 and not us?"


And now that some people have it it's...............



"I hate 6.3" "6.3 has massive audio dropouts, do you have this problem?" I think D* sux, why the heck did they give us this bogus software update?" "They are giving us this update to make us switch to the new DVR!" "D* sux much ass!"
"I am switching my service!" "Why in the world did D* update my software?" 
"How can I switch back to the previous software?"




I'm sorry this whole thing just cracks me up. Humans are very fickle creatures..........Ain't we????


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

mst3k said:


> No judgement here, just an observation. For months on this forum now its been,
> 
> "When is 6.3 coming?" "I heard some people already have it" "D* sux, why won't they give us the update in software?" "They aren't giving us the update because they want to promote their new DVR!" "I really hate D*" "Why can't they just give us 6.3 now?" "I heard that there is NO 6.3 update!" "Aliens took me into their ship last nite and showed me the 6.3 update, and it is amazing!!"
> "Why do the aliens have 6.3 and not us?"
> ...


I think we just mistakenly assumed that the software would add wanted features without creating problems such as missed recordings, lockups, reboots and audio dropouts.


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## charlieg (May 31, 2002)

Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a free lunch, especially in the world of software development. You want new features, you get to put up with new problems. My HR10-250 works just fine with 3.15 and until such time as the chatter about problems with 6.3 subside, I'm staying put. Fortunately for me, with a hacked box, I get to make that decision.


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## Robdec (Oct 3, 2002)

I guess we thought maybe after 2 years in the making 6.3 wouldn't cause so many problems!
I am very happy to have 6.3 but the reboots and audio dropouts so many people are having is unacceptable . Its also crazy for directv to say there isnt a problem when you call. I have had my HR10 for two years without a single problem and I use it daily. As soon as I get 6.3 I have had two reboots while watching recordings. I havnt had the audio drop outs yet but Im sure I will.


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## charlieg (May 31, 2002)

But it's a different hardware platform, with different requirements (like recording HD both from the satellites and OTA) that they're deploying this on. The software may have been around for a while but the implementation is certainly different.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Audio dropouts? I had them with 3.1.x so I'm not surprised they continue with 6.3a. I just activate Digital Captioning before I watch recorded shows. I see folks with S3 TiVo posting about it so I'm not shocked it continues.

I haven't had any missed recordings yet, but I've had the problem with extended or abbreviated recordings for as long as I can recall. I just think the speed increase for a machine that was abysmally slow with 3.1.x is so worth it.


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## drewcipher (May 21, 2002)

I agree, it is time to stop blaming 6.3 for the audio problems. I have it on 3.1 too.


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## Mavrick22 (Feb 7, 2006)

drewcipher said:


> I agree, it is time to stop blaming 6.3 for the audio problems. I have it on 3.1 too.


I agree for I am having bad audio dropouts on my HR10 and I am still on 3.1 also.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Robdec said:


> I guess we thought maybe after 2 years in the making 6.3 wouldn't cause so many problems!


Mine doesn't. 

<Fingers crossed while knocking on wood.>


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## scooby_doo_53 (Jul 19, 2004)

First off, I think there are 2 different problems with the audio dropouts. I'm getting them now on 6.3a, and NEVER had them on 3.1.5f. The problem I am experiencing is similar to everybody else who has 6.3a (8-10 seconds, and then a short resync and pixelazation). I can't say for sure what is happening on the ones with 3.1.5f, but I would be curious to see if those people are seeing EXACTLY these symptoms. It can only lead me to believe it's a software issue (which I reported yesterday). I was on 6.3a 2 minutes, and had my first dropout on Fox OTA watching "Bones" Wednesday night.

Secondly, I too have been watching this thread and wanting to know what all the fuss was about "folders". Frankly, I have had a D* Tivo almost since they came out. None of these EVER had this feature, and frankly, I got to used to what I had. I really wasn't missing anything.

Nearly everything I watch is OTA (at least right now), so the audio problems are very annoying. I wish I had remembered to disconnect my phone line before I went out of town last weekend.


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## DDayDawg (Jul 13, 2004)

charlieg said:


> Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a free lunch, especially in the world of software development. You want new features, you get to put up with new problems. My HR10-250 works just fine with 3.15 and until such time as the chatter about problems with 6.3 subside, I'm staying put. Fortunately for me, with a hacked box, I get to make that decision.


I'm confused by this response. You seem to excuse a company for pushing untested code under some mistaken "there is no free lunch" crap. We are customers here. We aren't talking about us downloading a freebie program some 15 year old kid wrote in his free time off the internet. We are talking about a consumer electronics device that alot of us paid $1000 dollars to purchase.

To make a statement that says we have no expectation of a) getting upgrades in a timely manner or b) that those upgrades would be tested and function properly is completely assinine. You must certainly be a software developer because only someone in that profession would be so quick to believe that you can't create tight code with little to no bugs.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

DDayDawg said:


> I'm confused by this response. You seem to excuse a company for pushing untested code under some mistaken "there is no free lunch" crap.


Then the blame would fall to TiVo.


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## finaldiet (May 10, 2004)

Mine doesn't. Been working great!


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

Mine has been working great! We watch primarily OTA and ESPN HD with no audio drop-outs, no pixelation, recordings all working well, no slime coming out of the front, etc. I had audio drop-outs occassionally for a few seconds at a time with 3.1, but have yet to see one now. Unless someone has a controlled environment with two HR10's running side-by-side with 3.1 and 6.3, then I have difficulty accepting that the problem is 6.3 alone. But, I bet D* is doing such a test and others. Why would some have this issue and most others do not. I expect there are transmission issues, atmospheric issues, etc that may contribute to the drop-outs. When one person gets air sick, others start to feel the symptoms coming on. I know many are convinced they do and they very well may be right. But why dont all of us have the problem?

I AM HAPPY WITH 6.3      Now I will keep my fingers crossed that I have not jinxed myself.


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## vMAC (Aug 5, 2006)

DDayDawg said:


> I'm confused by this response. You seem to excuse a company for pushing untested code under some mistaken "there is no free lunch" crap. We are customers here. We aren't talking about us downloading a freebie program some 15 year old kid wrote in his free time off the internet. We are talking about a consumer electronics device that alot of us paid $1000 dollars to purchase.
> 
> To make a statement that says we have no expectation of a) getting upgrades in a timely manner or b) that those upgrades would be tested and function properly is completely assinine. You must certainly be a software developer because only someone in that profession would be so quick to believe that you can't create tight code with little to no bugs.


I'm confused that you are confused. When you buy a car you have a warranty for what 3 years if something breaks during that time they will warranty it. If it doesn't; which I think it would be simple to say that 3.1.5 wasn't broken, then you don't get any free upgrades. Cars cost 15,000+ and you don't get a free alternator upgrade a year or two later just because they developed one that works better, when yours is still working. Chill out, if you don't like the upgrade then hack your unit and reinstall 3.1.5 image.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

scooby_doo_53 said:


> The problem I am experiencing is similar to everybody else who has 6.3a (8-10 seconds, and then a short resync and pixelazation).


Not everyone with 6.3 is experiencing the problem. When I looked at the poll the other day, I would say the majority of us are not.


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## DonQijote (Mar 2, 2004)

mst3k said:


> No judgement here, just an observation.....
> 
> I'm sorry this whole thing just cracks me up. Humans are very fickle creatures..........Ain't we????


========================================

You are right, it is simply unreasonable for us to expect a properly working system for our $148 per month ($1700/Yr)


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## chris_h (Dec 17, 2003)

scooby_doo_53 said:


> I'm getting them now on 6.3a, and NEVER had them on 3.1.5f. The problem I am experiencing is similar to everybody else who has 6.3a (8-10 seconds [of missing audio], and then a short resync and pixelazation).


Ditto.

It would be nice if someone with a hacked (having telnet access to the log files) HR10 running 3.1.5 and seeing audio dropouts could confirm if they see the same buffer overflow error reported by Christopher Heer in the main 6.3 DD audio dropout thread.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

vMAC said:


> I'm confused that you are confused. When you buy a car you have a warranty for what 3 years if something breaks during that time they will warranty it. If it doesn't; which I think it would be simple to say that 3.1.5 wasn't broken, then you don't get any free upgrades. Cars cost 15,000+ and you don't get a free alternator upgrade a year or two later just because they developed one that works better, when yours is still working. Chill out, if you don't like the upgrade then hack your unit and reinstall 3.1.5 image.


What a lame thing to say.

The update is being pushed to EVERYONE; you don't get a choice unless you disconnect the phone line. So for all intents and purposes, they want everyone to have it.

And 3.1.5f certainly did have issues. It wasn't "broken" -- the car still drove, but it ran like crap.

Oh, and my car has never "crashed" or "locked up" or "rebooted" or anything like that. It's far more reliable than the HR10-250 has ever been.

Software is buggy because consumers don't raise a big enough stink. It's now acceptable to release software with bugs. What a shame.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

fjwagner said:


> Not everyone with 6.3 is experiencing the problem. When I looked at the poll the other day, I would say the vast majority of us are not.


You must've read the poll wrong...it's been hovering around 50-50 since it's inception.


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## charlieg (May 31, 2002)

DDayDawg said:


> I'm confused by this response. You seem to excuse a company for pushing untested code under some mistaken "there is no free lunch" crap. We are customers here. We aren't talking about us downloading a freebie program some 15 year old kid wrote in his free time off the internet. We are talking about a consumer electronics device that alot of us paid $1000 dollars to purchase.
> 
> To make a statement that says we have no expectation of a) getting upgrades in a timely manner or b) that those upgrades would be tested and function properly is completely assinine. You must certainly be a software developer because only someone in that profession would be so quick to believe that you can't create tight code with little to no bugs.


 I'm sorry for the misunderstanding but I wasn't excusing anyone (guess I should have used a smiley in my post). I agree 100% with what you are saying I'm just being realistic (all software has some bugs). It's unfortunate that a large number of software releases these days are no better than beta quality (I'm being generous here). Perhaps it's unreasonable deadlines and perhaps it just plain incompetence, I can't say.

Oh and just for the record, I'm not involved directly with software development. I am, unfortunately, subject to the very same treatment by numerous vendors who push out code that has supposedly been tested but is instead riddled with problems and expect people like myself (a Unix system admin), to find them. As a result, I try not to rush into upgrades until I've had a chance to hear from others who've been through the process. Sometimes it's best not to live on the bleeding edge 

- Charlie


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

eengert said:


> You must've read the poll wrong...it's been hovering around 50-50 since it's inception.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319948

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319919

Are you looking at a different one? Unfortunately, not a large sampling and they are worded slightly differently. Both show a majority ok with things. One more than the other. Fred


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## vMAC (Aug 5, 2006)

cheer said:


> What a lame thing to say.
> 
> The update is being pushed to EVERYONE; you don't get a choice unless you disconnect the phone line. So for all intents and purposes, they want everyone to have it.
> 
> ...


I agree, but the problem here is that anything you buy has problems especially when it involves software. My friend just purchased a brand new 745 il, and two months into the purchase had to return it because the software that ran his cell phone didn't work, and the display information kept going in and out.

I've never seen a piece of software in my 15 years of working with and programming computers that didn't have one bug in it. So I think that a piece of software which is being rolled out to hundreds of thousands of units; it should be a given that some people will have some issues.


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## scooby_doo_53 (Jul 19, 2004)

I never said everyone running 6.3a is having the problem. I only know from what I have read here that I am having the same issue that others running 6.3a are having.

When the symptoms are identical for everybody, it leads me to believe that there is a software issue of some kind. The only thing in common to everybody is the HR10-250 and it's Tivo software. Everybody has a different setup for both their TV and receiver.

For those of you not experiencing the problem, I'm happy for you. Just remember that others are clearly having some sort of an issue with the new update.


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## blutarski (Oct 3, 2006)

mst3k said:


> No judgement here, just an observation. For months on this forum now its been,
> 
> "When is 6.3 coming?" ....
> 
> Great post. Glad to see someone on the site sees the humor in this group.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

fjwagner said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319948
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319919
> 
> Are you looking at a different one? Unfortunately, not a large sampling and they are worded slightly differently. Both show a majority ok with things. One more than the other. Fred


I was looking at this one which is specific to the audio problems on 6.3: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319572

Nonetheless, neither of the threads you referenced show what I would call a vast majority not having problems. The first one shows 52% not having problems, and the second one doesn't really seem to apply to the audio dropout discussion since the questions are more vaguely worded.

I'm not trying to get in an argument with you or anything - just questioning your use of the phrase "vast majority". I agree that the sampling is quite small, but it's all I have to go on. And since somewhere around 50% of responders report having audio dropouts and several are reporting serious issues like rebooting in the middle of recordings, missed/partial recordings, and slowdowns/lockups, I'm not willing to let my box upgrade since I'm having absolutely no problems on 3.1f. I really want a faster grid guide and folders would be nice, but I don't want to risk having the other problems. Anything close to 50-50 is terrible odds for me. Heck, even 75-25 is bad. Until 6.3b comes out and is in the realm of 90-10, I'm not updating.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

fjwagner said:


> Unless someone has a controlled environment with two HR10's running side-by-side with 3.1 and 6.3, then I have difficulty accepting that the problem is 6.3 alone.


If you've been reading any of the 6.3 problem threads, then you would see this has already been done.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

From reading the posts I get the impression that the audio dropout problems are for OA recordings. I don't have OA and haven't had any audio dropouts. My box froze up last night(2nd night since I got the update); it hadn't done that in the three months that I've had my 3rd box but it might be a coincidence since that doesn't seem to be a problem for others that have gotten the update.


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## gruxx (Jul 13, 2006)

fjwagner said:


> I AM HAPPY WITH 6.3


This is the reason why I keep forcing daily calls.

and I did every day in September.
and some days in August.
and some days in July.

I'm plunging full-steam ahead into the risk of a dropout, just for folders and "info for more."

I want 6.3 so badly, (wife won't let me zip the box for fear of failure - and rightly so with my track record and clumsy hands.)


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## Jimmmmbo! (Jun 20, 2004)

My experience as a software developer has shown me that many companies implement processes of software development differently. Sometimes, the processes are based on business realities, and sometimes just on a lack of knowledge of good software engineering practices, and sometimes just plain laziness (just-get-it-done attitude).

Software developed for mission-critical applications tend to have an extremely rigorous lifecycle of development that help ensure quality at all steps in the process; good examples are the auto industry, aeronautical and medical.

Just looking at the quality of the software released for consumer electronic products, in particular recent technology such as DVRs, I believe they (software developers) are pressured into a mostly "just-get-it-done" process, where the only requirement they really have to satisfy is "make it cheap" and "get it done fast".

If I had to critique what I see most here (as an outsider to the consumer electronic industry), I'd say that these products never have good requirements for their software developers to work with in the first place, and that their processes for testing it under all expected circumstances are suspect.


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

gruxx said:


> I'm plunging full-steam ahead into the risk of a dropout, just for folders and "info for more."


Although audio dropouts alone (if frequent enough or in the wrong places) are reason enough for me to hesitate, it's the reports of missed/partial recordings, lockups, and reboots in the middle of recordings that pushed me over the edge to decide not to let my box update. It's possible that I would be fortunate enough not to experience any issues, but a faster guide and folders isn't enough reward to make me take on the risk of missing programs or parts of programs (whether by audio dropout, partial recording, or lockup/reboot).

The only reason I keep bringing this up in various threads is because I wonder how many people out there think like you seem to be, "So what if I have a few audio dropouts? It's worth the risk to get the enhancements." And then once they get the upgrade find out that they have other issues like a partial recording or multiple unexpected reboots...or even find out that losing audio 4-5 times for 10 second intervals during an hour program makes it very difficult to follow along. So at the risk of sounding like an alarmist, I keep posting that point. Everyone should probably at least consider the risk/reward before updating. I feel pretty confident that there will be a 6.3b (or whatever they may choose to call it) fairly soon (several weeks?)...if that's true then the question for those who haven't yet updated is this: Would you rather take the chance of having these issues for a few weeks until they might be fixed just to have the speed and folders (and be willing to live with those issues for a few weeks+), OR would you rather stick with a stable, slower version until a better update version is released? I choose the latter.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Everything I have experienced with 3.1.5f and 6.3a tells me that the audio dropouts are unrelated between the two OS versions. Dropouts with 3.1.5f were only occasional and momentary and many times accompanied with video breakup/pixelisation. Dropouts with 6.3a are much longer in duration and are usually followed by a slight bit of pixelisation, after which the audio returns to normal. I have not seen the problem occur on DTV channels with 6.3a whereas the dropouts with 3.1.5f happened regardless of the source.

I have personally not experienced any reboot problems. I did have one video segment stutter and another one lock up for a few seconds but they were both random events. I suspect that those who have not had the audio dropouts or other problems are in an area that gets exceptional reception for their OTA channels or the local stations are sending a very clean signal.

Earl Bonovich has posted over at dbstalk that DTV is aware of the problem but nothing has been mentioned yet about a 6.3b release to fix it. The best way to get it resolved is to keep calling DTV and let them know you're pissed about it and ask when it's going to get fixed.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Check: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4452514#post4452514

post #234

It would seem that they are now aware of the problem and have said it will be 'at least 2 weeks' to implement a fix.

It would be nice if some others heard the same thing from the D* CSR's tho...


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## scooby_doo_53 (Jul 19, 2004)

Sir_whinealot said:


> Check: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4452514#post4452514
> 
> post #234
> 
> ...


I was told the same thing yesterday morning, but knowing the CSR's, I took it with a grain of salt. I hadn't read the above message until now, so maybe they did indeed tell me the truth


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

eengert said:


> - just questioning your use of the phrase "vast majority". I agree that the sampling is quite small, but it's all I have to go on. .


I can agree with not using vast. Just happy that my HR10 is happy.


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

eengert said:


> You must've read the poll wrong...it's been hovering around 50-50 since it's inception.


If 50% of 6.3 users are not experiencing reboot and dropout problems, then I find it hard to blame the new software entirely for the other half's experiencing them.

I had periods of reboots and audio dropouts under 3.15f. Haven't had either problem yet under 6.3 or 6.3a, and I record loads of OTA HD with Dolby Digital on... easily 12-15 hours a week of primetime network shows, between me and the wife.

The reboots and audio dropouts I used to experience under 3.15f seemed to come and go on their own. I remember one period about 9 months or so ago when I was spontaneously rebooting about twice a week for a month. Then it stopped and hasn't happened since. Nothing I or a s/w update did to fix it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same random flakiness followed by periods of stability will be the case for these problems under 6.3.

/steve


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

sluciani said:


> If 50% of 6.3 users are not experiencing reboot and dropout problems, then I find it hard to blame the new software entirely for the other half's experiencing them.
> 
> I had periods of reboots and audio dropouts under 3.15f. Haven't had either problem yet under 6.3 or 6.3a, and I record loads of OTA HD with Dolby Digital on... easily 12-15 hours a week of primetime network shows, between me and the wife.
> 
> ...


The 50% only refers to audio dropouts...and that is only for poll respondants, which obviously doesn't represent the entire population of HR10 owners. Nonetheless, I think it's fair to link many of them in some way to 6.3 since many of those folks report that it had never happened before but began right away after 6.3 installed. It is perplexing that not everyone has the problems, and some have the problems even with 3.1. But enough people report having problems that begin only after installing 6.3 to keep me from allowing my box - which is operating perfectly with 3.1 - to update.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

vMAC said:


> I agree, but the problem here is that anything you buy has problems especially when it involves software. My friend just purchased a brand new 745 il, and two months into the purchase had to return it because the software that ran his cell phone didn't work, and the display information kept going in and out.
> 
> I've never seen a piece of software in my 15 years of working with and programming computers that didn't have one bug in it. So I think that a piece of software which is being rolled out to hundreds of thousands of units; it should be a given that some people will have some issues.


It's a given because we accept it as such. And these are not minor or cosmetic problems; if Tivo and D* bothered to do any real regression testing, things like the audio problems and missing satellites (!) would've been caught.

And I have indeed seen software that has no serious, functional bugs. But we've all adopted this sort of attitude ("It's a given") and so we are stuck with this.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

blutarski said:


> ...Glad to see someone on the site sees the humor in this group.


Uh huh. Having been forced to accept a flawed up rev is really hilarious. I guess this is the same kind of humor that can also be found in seeing an old lady slipping on a banana peel and breaking her hip. Most people don't see humor in misfortune, unless they are basically sociopaths. Nice of you to at least point yourselves out to the rest of us.

Looking at the track record, it is unexpected that Tivo would let us down so terribly, but the fact remains that they have. I guess there is irony in that some were eager and pressing for the up rev, and now are not so sure they are happy with it. But irony is not humor, and schaudenfreude is at best a sick reaction to the woes that 6.3 has brought. GFY.


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## dengland (May 21, 2004)

cheer said:


> It's a given because we accept it as such. And these are not minor or cosmetic problems; if Tivo and D* bothered to do any real regression testing, things like the audio problems and missing satellites (!) would've been caught.


I can certainly see that there are more variables involved with audio error handling. Missing satellites is the humorous one. It should be on the check list. Right up there with "does it make a picture on the monitor!"


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

TyroneShoes said:


> .....also be found in seeing an old lady slipping on a banana peel and breaking her hip. ...
> 
> ... to the woes that 6.3 has brought. GFY.


We are talking about a software upgrade that works well for at least half of us. Woes and old ladies slipping on banana peels?


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## Richard Chalk (May 13, 2004)

cheer said:


> Software is buggy because consumers don't raise a big enough stink. It's now acceptable to release software with bugs. What a shame.


NOW acceptable? I thought Microsoft set that bar when they ran a print ad showing a BSOD to sell windows 2000!!!


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

no 63 yet and another thread i have to monitor..wahh


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

fjwagner said:


> We are talking about a software upgrade that works well for at least half of us...?


Exactly. But batting just over .500 is hardly acceptable in software. Anything less than 99.99% is considered worthy of a fix in that arena.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

TS - mainly was struggling to relate software bugs to woes and old ladies slipping on banana peels which was your analogy; but not particularly significant. Agree that 50% is not a good target. However, I would certainly like to ultimately understand the conditions that cause you to have problems but not for me.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

fjwagner said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319948
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319919
> 
> Are you looking at a different one? Unfortunately, not a large sampling and they are worded slightly differently. Both show a majority ok with things. One more than the other. Fred


A wouldn't consider 54% a "vast majority".


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

jhimmel said:


> A wouldn't consider 54% a "vast majority".


I agree. we established that 12 posts back.


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## sn9ke_eyes (Sep 4, 2002)

scooby_doo_53 said:


> Secondly, I too have been watching this thread and wanting to know what all the fuss was about "folders". Frankly, I have had a D* Tivo almost since they came out. None of these EVER had this feature, and frankly, I got to used to what I had. I really wasn't missing anything.


Just because your series 1 directivo didn't have folders doesn't mean that those of use with series 2 directivos haven't had folder for quite a long time now.

It depends on your viewing habits, but folders are very useful for some of us. Just because you don't miss them doesn't mean a lot of people don't.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

fjwagner said:


> TS - mainly was struggling to relate software bugs to woes and old ladies slipping on banana peels which was your analogy; but not particularly significant...


That's what you got out of that? Yer yankin' me.

What I was trying to "relate" was that a person's misfortune due to something not in their control is just not funny, unless you are just a sick f*kc. Didn't seem to be much of a struggle at all. Seems more like a no brainer. Sorry you had to struggle to understand such a simple concept.


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

TyroneShoes said:


> That's what you got out of that? Yer yankin' me.


I find the overall emotion of this issue fun to follow. I will have to now admit that I had my first random re-boot the other day and noticed the famous audio drop-outs during the StL - San Diego game OTA. So, I am now on the other side of the 50%. Yes, I admit it after bragging about being ok. However, it is just tv and they will fix it. My life is not ruined. I am not leaving for FIOS, Dish, TWC, Comcast or alien broadcasts from Alpha Centauri. Anyone under 47 guess which old TV show featured Alpha Centauri?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

jhimmel said:


> A wouldn't consider 54% a "vast majority".


I do understand the intent of your post but it got me wondering (as i'm always looking for the exception to the rule when such definitive statements are made )

let's say there is company xyz and that 51% is held by me alone and the other 49% is held by (and forgive if i dont have the structure correct) 1000 mutual fund companies. Also say I am the CEO and want to vote myself a raise. Obviously with my 51% it will pass. But let's say that underlying those mutual fund shares are 100,000,000 shareholders who all vote for me not to get the raise.

In this case, the 49% does represent a vast majority (100,000,000 people vs 1) yet their vote is meaningless since i own 51%.

just doing a mental exercise to get my week started. Thanks for the opportunity

carry on


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Hey...no stock talk.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

that's what i thought until i saw the recent HH thread


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## Ramsey_Steve (Apr 11, 2003)

I too am 'not upgraded yet, but already experiencing "audio problems/mis-timed recordings", and interestingly they've only recently started.

In certain HD playback my audio sounds like spoken sentences get repeated rather than dropping out, a very strange effect. The issue of recordings starting 5 mins too early is also a very recent phenomenon, only noticed yesterday when playing SD material recorded 2 weeks ago.

The timing of these problems is a nightmare for D*, with FiOS rolling out TV to great reviews and TiVo's S3 machine availability helping make the move to FiOS so much easier to stomach.


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## drewcipher (May 21, 2002)

I think it will be a very long time before FIOS is available in the majority of homes.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

eengert said:


> I think we just mistakenly assumed that the software would add wanted features without creating problems such as missed recordings, lockups, reboots and audio dropouts.


I must have a disguised version of 6.3 as I already have constant audio dropouts, video blackouts and missed recordings.


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## lorick (Jul 30, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> Exactly. But batting just over .500 is hardly acceptable in software. Anything less than 99.99% is considered worthy of a fix in that arena.


PLEASE let me know when you find ANY software that is at 99.99%!!!


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## eengert (Feb 11, 2005)

gquiring said:


> I must have a disguised version of 6.3 as I already have constant audio dropouts, video blackouts and missed recordings.


I'm on 3.1f and haven't had a single issue in the year I've had it. Sorry to hear about your problems. I think you might want to ask for a replacement since your symptoms sound unusual.


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## alaskahill (Dec 21, 2001)

fjwagner said:


> Anyone under 47 guess which old TV show featured Alpha Centauri?


Lost in Space.....
That was their destination but the doctor sabotaged their systems by upgrading everything to 6.3, so they never got there


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

lorick said:


> PLEASE let me know when you find ANY software that is at 99.99%!!!


my pong game never crashed

windows solitare has never crashed on me


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

alaskahill said:


> Lost in Space.....
> That was their destination but the doctor sabotaged their systems by upgrading everything to 6.3, so they never got there


The winner in knowing the show and application of wit!


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

Although I don't think the OP intended anything malicisious, and although kind of agree with him WRT those of us here, I think we tend to forget (as CHEER and TyroneShoes alluded to) that there's some significantly large number of users out there for whom this wasn't optional. When you buy a consumer product you have no actual expectation of any upgrade ever, but if you're forced to take one it ought to be something you'd want to have.

My own experience?

I have experienced 3 occurrences of long (as in the proverbial 8 to 10+ seconds) audio dropouts in the week that I've had 6.3a. I honestly don't remember experiencing anything that looked like this in the previous 1 year with 3.15 on two boxes. I do not know if the events all occurred on the same box or not. I do know that for hardware configuration considerations and WAF the output on both boxes was set to PCM.

The fact that only half of upgraded users report this seems to me to imply that it is some interaction of software and environment. (Box hardware, local transmission parameters?, Local Signal condition?) Dunno, could be quite subtle -- but still puzzling that it wouldn't have been noticed in testing. It is sporadic, but happens often enough that it should have been seen.

Anyhow, on balance the benefits outway the short term problems for me. Folders are okay, but I seldom keep more than one of anything. (If they really wanted to do something, they could let me create folders and group things the way I want to.) But speed. Just fixing that is worth it for me. It means I don't have to listen to the love of my life constantly asking "How long is _that_ going to be on the screen?", and she gets to use the grid guide (which for reasons I can't fathom, she prefers.)


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## daveo4tivo (Jun 30, 2001)

The only method to get reliable software is for customers to return defective products. Not "keep" the product and demand it be fixed. You have to return it and demand your money back.

You can't have your cake and eat it to. Start returning products over defective software, and you'd see a radical change in the software industry and the products that rely on them.

the unfortunate truth however is people want to "keep" the product and demand it be fixed. The company has no incentive to fix it, because they have your money, and you have their product.

having worked in the software industry for many many years, product returns get people's attention!! The problem with product returns if you have to be willing to do without the product, while you wait for it to be fixed! And it may never be fixed, so you have to be willing to give up the product if you feel it's defective.

Having returned several consumer products and lots of software I have to say it always gets people's attention, but rarely results in the issue being fixed. But I've always gotten my money back.

So the question is: are these problems bad enough that you're willing do without your TiVo and Directv. If the answer is yes then your path is clear. If the answer is no, then the product is clearly good enough for your needs and you can expect reduced attention from Directv, because you've accepted the product.


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## Klips (Oct 20, 2002)

Hey, I'd like to thank you folks for making it easy for me today.

I don't frequently visit these forums as ofter as I should, but I have been registered for quite a long while.

I didn't ask or even know about the 6.3x until it hit my system some time back. It has been reliable until the first of this week. Now I don't know what the incremental version was to tell if it changed from last week to this week, but now I'm experiencing total lockups.

I came into the forums today to make a judgement if my unit is experiencing a hardware failure or what. From what I can now tell, it is most likely the software.

Now I do enjoy having my show series put into folders with this newer version. Other than that, I'm not seeing much other benefit. If I had a choice to choose between reliable less featured software versus buggy feature enhanced software, well I choose reliable. It doesn't matter if the shows are in their appropriate folders if they don't even get recorded. :down: 

I develop software at work, we go through absolutely as much testing as possible to insure a high quality product out the door. With just discipline, it isn't that hard to do. I'm sorry, it isn't a good excuse. I know that it happens, but still no excuse.

Now it's not like this software was put together overnight either, so you really can't say it happened because it was rushed.

So as with many things in life that could be a whole lot better, we again fail to execute and then sit around discussing it.  And we bad mouth politicians. 

And on the suggestion of returning products with defective software, do you think that I stand a snowballs chance in HE$$ of getting them to return my original purchase money? The software was fine when I bought it but now because they just made this change to the software, do I really have a choice to return the equipment? Let me know where or who I need to talk to. I'd be happy to return all of it for a refund!


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## sjlush (Jun 18, 2003)

mst3k said:


> No judgement here, just an observation. For months on this forum now its been,
> 
> "When is 6.3 coming?" "I heard some people already have it" "D* sux, why won't they give us the update in software?" "They aren't giving us the update because they want to promote their new DVR!" "I really hate D*" "Why can't they just give us 6.3 now?" "I heard that there is NO 6.3 update!" "Aliens took me into their ship last nite and showed me the 6.3 update, and it is amazing!!"
> "Why do the aliens have 6.3 and not us?"
> ...


This is funny in an odd way. The OP simply made an observation about the abundance of chatterr caused by 6.3 and that observation turned into another 6.3 discussion. The problems some people are having are certainly no joke, but it is funny that putting the numbers 6 and 3 anywhere near to each other will spark a big conversation.


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