# TiVo Elite: And the Spontaneous Reboots Continue...



## Wendy in NY

The other spontaneous reboots thread was getting too long!

So here I am, as I write this, and my Elite is rebooting. This is the 4th spontaneous reboot since I received the 20.2 upgrade in January. Two programs were recording (which I of course have now lost a chunk of...again!) while I was watching a 3rd recorded program.

I am really at my wit's end. :down:


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## aaronwt

My box was up to 28 days without a reboot so I decided to see if the online Season pass would still make it reboot. I had not touched the online season pass since the last reboot. So shortly after messing with the online Season pass on my Elite, it rebooted. I wonder what causes my box to reboot when I mess with the Online Season Pass? It doesn't have any affect on my two tuner Premieres. But at least in my situation I know what will cause a reboot. As long as I don't mess with the online Season Pass, then it is fine.

I guess when I pick up my second Elite this month I will find out if it's something specific to my box or not. I'll pick up a second Elite in two weeks.


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## Wendy in NY

I've never used the Online Season Pass so I don't know what causes the reboots on my elite. I always know it's going to happen when if I'm on the menu screens and there's a long delay with every button I press and then presto! the red lights come on and there's the reboot. 

However, the Elite has rebooted on it's own while I'm not watching it and the only way that I know that is if for example I'm recording The Walking Dead which is on from 9 - 10 PM. When the next day I go to the menus I'll see 2 Walking Deads, one from 9 to 9:20 and the 2nd from 9:30ish to 10. This happens A LOT and is VERY frustrating. Thank goodness for repeats.


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## TZR916

aaronwt said:


> ..So shortly after messing with the online Season pass on my Elite, it rebooted. I wonder what causes my box to reboot when I mess with the Online Season Pass?.


It's not just you.


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## mchief

I would really like to get an Elite, but am still on hold. It appears that a tuning adapter is involved in a lot of the problems.

Wendy, do you have a tuning adapter in your setup?

I do not.


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## Wendy in NY

mchief said:


> I would really like to get an Elite, but am still on hold. It appears that a tuning adapter is involved in a lot of the problems.
> 
> Wendy, do you have a tuning adapter in your setup?
> 
> I do not.


Nope, no tuning adapter. Aside from the M Card, the only "external" device that is installed is the bluetooth for the slide remote. I got the Elite in October and shortly afterward the spontaneous reboots sarted. In January I got the 20.2 upgrade and I was also instructed by a TiVo tech to run the S.M.A.R.T. drive test which took a little over 24 hours. It passed. I was also told that the 20.2 upgrade would eliminate the reboots. It did for about the 1st 3 weeks after the upgrade but I'm now up to 4 or 5 reboots. I was told to change the M card, I did, but the reboots continue.

Normally I don't purchase or download anything when it first is introduced because there are always kinks etc. that need to be ironed out but the 4-tuner aspect really sold me. I'm sure that the later models will have the reboot issue resolved but then where would that leave us?


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## Soapm

TZR916 said:


> It's not just you.


Nope, and it's not just the Elite...


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## aaronwt

Soapm said:


> Nope, and it's not just the Elite...


My two tuners Premieres have been fine when I mess with the online season passes. And the day my Elite rebooted, I had messed with the online season passes for all my Premieres, but only the Elite rebooted.

I guess I just won't mess with the online season passes again for the Elite until after the next software update.


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## Soapm

aaronwt said:


> My two tuners Premieres have been fine when I mess with the online season passes. And the day my Elite rebooted, I had messed with the online season passes for all my Premieres, but only the Elite rebooted.
> 
> I guess I just won't mess with the online season passes again for the Elite until after the next software update.


Actually, it's how I get the TV in the family room. I send a season pass to my HD which makes it reboot. They get mad, clear out to watch another set and I can have the big TV. By the time they come back I'm watching something so...


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## minimeh

Soapm said:


> Actually, it's how I get the TV in the family room. I send a season pass to my HD which makes it reboot. They get mad, clear out to watch another set and I can have the big TV. By the time they come back I'm watching something so...


So it's a feature, not a bug. Nice!


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## mattack

So, have you people with the reboots called up Tivo and complained?


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## DCIFRTHS

Soapm said:


> Nope, and it's not just the Elite...





Soapm said:


> Actually, it's how I get the TV in the family room. I send a season pass to my HD which makes it reboot. They get mad, clear out to watch another set and I can have the big TV. By the time they come back I'm watching something so...


Do your Elites only reboot when you use the online season pass manager, or do they reboot at other inappropriate moments too?


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## DCIFRTHS

Wendy in NY said:


> The other spontaneous reboots thread was getting too long!
> 
> So here I am, as I write this, and my Elite is rebooting. This is the 4th spontaneous reboot since I received the 20.2 upgrade in January. Two programs were recording (which I of course have now lost a chunk of...again!) while I was watching a 3rd recorded program.
> 
> I am really at my wit's end. :down:


I didn't think that the other thread was too long... Since you started this one, I have posted a link - in the old thread - so that people subscribed to it know there is a new one.


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## ADG

DCIFRTHS said:


> I didn't think that the other thread was too long... Since you started this one,


+1 
Multiple threads on the same topic are generally not a good idea, especially when the first thread is still very active.


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## ghuido

I subscribed to this one. Too Long? You should see some of the other threads (Page count at 256). Yeah it does get a bit hairy to search in it sometimes. 

On a side note, if you report a reboot if you can please also provide the following info

Has anyone tracked this against 

- TIVO Premiere Version (assuming everyone is at 20.2 but a spring update is coming soon)
- Carrier (Comcast/TWC/FIOS)
- CableCard/OTA
- SDV / Tuning Adapter
- Accesories Installed (External Drive, Bluetooth Remote)
- What you where doing when it rebooted on you. 

The reason I ask is so that we can see if some pattern emerges from the reboots.


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## Wendy in NY

DCIFRTHS said:


> I didn't think that the other thread was too long... Since you started this one, I have posted a link - in the old thread - so that people subscribed to it know there is a new one.


Sorry about that.  It's just I got so friggin' frustrated.

To answer someone else's question, I don't use the online season pass but the Elite still reboots.


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## CoxInPHX

ghuido said:


> I subscribed to this one. Too Long? You should see some of the other threads (Page count at 256). Yeah it does get a bit hairy to search in it sometimes.
> 
> On a side note, if you report a reboot if you can please also provide the following info
> 
> Has anyone tracked this against
> 
> - TIVO Premiere Version (assuming everyone is at 20.2 but a spring update is coming soon)
> - Carrier (Comcast/TWC/FIOS)
> - CableCard/OTA
> - SDV / Tuning Adapter
> - Accesories Installed (External Drive, Bluetooth Remote)
> - What you where doing when it rebooted on you.
> 
> The reason I ask is so that we can see if some pattern emerges from the reboots.


I asked for detailed info in a new thread that isn't getting much traction, hopefully users can start posting their setup:

Elite Owner Set-up Info Comparison
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=485328


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## Teeps

CoxInPHX said:


> I asked for detailed info in a new thread that isn't getting much traction, hopefully users can start posting their setup:


It can also be helpful when city and state are included in the visible user profile.


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## ardee00

aaronwt said:


> My two tuners Premieres have been fine when I mess with the online season passes. And the day my Elite rebooted, I had messed with the online season passes for all my Premieres, but only the Elite rebooted.
> 
> I guess I just won't mess with the online season passes again for the Elite until after the next software update.


This was happening to me too (brand new Elite), so I googled the problem and found this thread. Then I called TiVo and, because I could show it wasn't just me, the TiVo guy went and talked to the engineers then came back and told me that this is a KNOWN bug that they're working on.

I also mentioned to him that when you copy season passes from one TiVo to the other, it should preserve the priority order (duh!). It currently doesn't.

So it's back to rearranging the season passes via the remote control instead of the web site, at least for awhile. (How will we find out if they fix it? Trial and error?)


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## rrg

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the reboot problem is NOT confined to those users who are using the online Season Pass feature. While that problem certainly needs to be fixed there's more required on TiVo's part.

It's so frustrating. As far as I can tell we've never gotten any clear indication that TiVo even admits that there's a more widespread issue here.

They've gone and dropped the price of the Elite by $100, which is great, and I'd love to repurchase it, but despite years of TiVo advocacy on my part I won't go near it again until I can trust it. It's already burned me once.


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## Wendy in NY

rrg said:


> Let's not lose sight of the fact that the reboot problem is NOT confined to those users who are using the online Season Pass feature. While that problem certainly needs to be fixed there's more required on TiVo's part.


Definitely. As I've mentioned before, I don't use the online Season Pass feature and my Elite reboots. The last tech I spoke to told me that I'd need to change the M-card which I did to no avail. While Cablevision sucks, it's obviously not their card being as others here are experiencing the reboots as well.


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## uw69

I wonder if TiVo will publicly acknowledge this issue or just try to implement a fix in some future update?


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## jrtroo

That is a strange thing to wonder. Are you thinking they will put out a PR?


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## aaronwt

I'm setting up my second Elite right now. Hopefully it performs like my first one does and only has issues with the online SP manager. I guess it will have to also update the software since the build date is Jan2011. I was hoping it might be newer so it wouldn't need to update now.


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## Teeps

uw69 said:


> I wonder if TiVo will publicly acknowledge this issue or just try to implement a fix in some future update?


Corporations will never admit to anything; until they feel certain that they have an immediate fix... It's just the way things work in these days of class action law suits.


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## uw69

jrtroo said:


> That is a strange thing to wonder. Are you thinking they will put out a PR?


Unless I know they are going to fix these issues I wouldn't even consider buying and elite. Bet I'm not alone.


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## CoxInPHX

uw69 said:


> Unless I know they are going to fix these issues I wouldn't even consider buying and elite. Bet I'm not alone.


On the fence as well...


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## CoxInPHX

aaronwt said:


> I'm setting up my second Elite right now. Hopefully it performs like my first one does and only has issues with the online SP manager. I guess it will have to also update the software since the build date is *Jan2011*. I was hoping it might be newer so it wouldn't need to update now.


Is Jan2011 a typo? Wasn't the Elite not released until Oct 2011?


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## aaronwt

CoxInPHX said:


> Is Jan2011 a typo? Wasn't the Elite not released until Oct 2011?


Yes Jan2012.

So far no reboots on either of my boxes. I purposely messed with the online SP manger to transfer SPs to my new Elite, but I also changed around the SPs in my other Elite. That was 1.5 hours ago and so far nothing has rebooted. IN the past it rebooted a short time after messing with it. I'll have to check it again when I get home from work tomorrow morning.


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## uw69

aaronwt said:


> Yes Jan2012.
> 
> So far no reboots on either of my boxes. I purposely messed with the online SP manger to transfer SPs to my new Elite, but I also changed around the SPs in my other Elite. That was 1.5 hours ago and so far nothing has rebooted. IN the past it rebooted a short time after messing with it. I'll have to check it again when I get home from work tomorrow morning.


Hope both boxes remain solid for you.


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## Teeps

uw69 said:


> Unless I know they are going to fix these issues I wouldn't even consider buying and elite. Bet I'm not alone.


Roger that +1 here.



CoxInPHX said:


> On the fence as well...


Me too.


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## Lenonn

Teeps said:


> Roger that +1 here.
> 
> Me too.


Same here. This is the main reason I've held off on the Elite. I can't justify a DVR if it can't reliably perform it's basic functions (record and playback video). I also can't believe at this point that they haven't nailed down a common cause for the spontaneous reboots. I know my father would love the Elite, but there is no way I am going to recommend they upgrade to a device that could crash at any time.


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## Welshdog

So any Premiere (Elite or not) can exhibit the rebooting issue? I was considering the Elite. My wife came out of the house today and asked me how many tuners the Premiere had. This is not the type of question she usually asks, but one of the existing Tivos (Series 3 and HD) had failed to record a show due to conflicts and she was pissed. She wants 4 more tuners.

So I was going to just order an Elite with Lifetime and be done with it. I first checked with TWC Austin to see if I could to a cable card install myself and they said yes, but I needed a TA as well (which I had forgotten about). I so did some TA research and here I am, on the fence with the rest of you.

We don't currently have digital cable so this would be a big change for us. However, we can't do it if the whole system is still buggy. Wifey has a zero defect policy when it comes to recording her stories.


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## Teeps

Welshdog said:


> We don't currently have digital cable so this would be a big change for us. However, we can't do it if the whole system is still buggy. Wifey has a zero defect policy when it comes to recording her stories.


No digital cable, is there that much content over the air in your area?

Just get another S3. They are inexpensive, even with lifetime sub on the used market...


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## Welshdog

Teeps said:


> No digital cable, is there that much content over the air in your area?
> 
> Just get another S3. They are inexpensive, even with lifetime sub on the used market...


We have analog cable and use OTA for HD, but it would be nice to get all the cable shows in HD too. Hell, back in the day we went for 10 years with no cable at all just to save money, so I can be patient.

I might decide to go with an XL since I understand they work <fairly> well with CableCards and TAs.


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## pjgrand

this is getting very frustrating! every night it is re-booting! any updates from anyone on what's going on?


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## Ziggy86

pjgrand said:


> this is getting very frustrating! every night it is re-booting! any updates from anyone on what's going on?


What does TiVo say about the rebooting issue?


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## uw69

Ziggy86 said:


> What does TiVo say about the rebooting issue?


Great question! No answer.


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## Bighouse

Is the cablecard or the handshaking/interface with itthe cause of the rebooting? I'm sitting here waiting for the cable guy to shoe up with a cablecard and without it in my TiVo has been without issues really. Program guide works, YouTube works, same game works...just don't have any channel signals yet.


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## Gadfly

I got my Tivo Elite yesterday and my wife says that while she was watching a taped program, it rebooted.

I am very disappointed in the state of the software of my new Tivo. How they can release something as buggy as this?


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## Soapm

Gadfly said:


> I got my Tivo Elite yesterday and my wife says that while she was watching a taped program, it rebooted.?


What kind of elite did you get with a tape?

I wouldn't worry about a reboot or two in the first few days. See how it does long term.


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## Wendy in NY

Gadfly said:


> I got my Tivo Elite yesterday and my wife says that while she was watching a taped program, it rebooted.
> 
> I am very disappointed in the state of the software of my new Tivo. How they can release something as buggy as this?


That's exactly how it happens to me. My spontaneous reboots occur mostly when I'm watching a recorded program AND if I happen to be fast forwarding or rewinding with my TiVo slide. Other times I'm watching a live program and I'm navigating through the menus again with the TiVo slide. Usually when there's a slight delay after pressing the buttons on the remote, that's always a tell-tale sign for me that with the next press of a button, the TiVo is going to reboot.

My Elite has also rebooted while I'm not in the same room so I'm not touching anything and it has also rebooted while I'm at work. I live alone so no one else is there to touch anything but when I get home from work and go to My Recordings, I'll see 2 recordings say for example Chopped. It'll show Chopped from 9-9:25 and then continues from 9:37-10.

Very frustrating indeed.


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## rrg

No activity here for more than a month.

I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, but it's not evidence that the problem isn't still occurring.

Have there been any software updates recently?

Can anyone report recent reboot issues with the Elite (now the "Premere XL4", I guess)?

Equally interesting, can anyone who was seeing this issue regularly now report that the problem seems to have gone away (for them)?


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## beejay

I've had 2 spontaneous reboots since I installed 20.2.1.1 on 5/11. That's once every 297 hours. Not as good as the once every 418 hours with 20.2 but it's still early.


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## rrg

beejay said:


> I've had 2 spontaneous reboots since I installed 20.2.1.1 on 5/11. That's once every 297 hours. Not as good as the once every 418 hours with 20.2 but it's still early.


Thanks, that's useful information. It would seem that that the problem is still present in even the most recent software update.

I still believe that any software-related reboot is unacceptable. My Series 3 units that would be replaced by the XL4 (if I got one) are rock-solid and I can't recall them EVER missing a recording for any reason apart from power outages, listings mistakes, or user error.

I'll continue to watch this thread, and will inquire from time to time if it stays dormant.


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## Wendy in NY

I got the Spring update early last week and my Elite or XL4 (whichever way you want to call it) rebooted while I was watching a recorded program just this past Thursday. Yesterday while I was trying to set a one time recording, the box froze and I turned it off and when I turned it back on about 3 hours later, it was still in a frozen state so I had to unplug/replug.


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## skaggs

I almost pulled the trigger on the $50 off sale. I decided to read around here first and I'm glad I did. I can't get rid of my rock solid HD units for the apparently buggy, rebooting elite.


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## compnurd

skaggs said:


> I almost pulled the trigger on the $50 off sale. I decided to read around here first and I'm glad I did. I can't get rid of my rock solid HD units for the apparently buggy, rebooting elite.


The bugs are hit and miss. It appears anyone without a Tuning Adapter has had very little issues. I am leaning towards based on the threads the tuning adapter having issues with 4 tuners. You have 30 days to return it


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## farmermac

uw69 said:


> Unless I know they are going to fix these issues I wouldn't even consider buying and elite. Bet I'm not alone.


Nope you're not. I reccomended my inlaws get a pace dvr from the local cable company when their Motorola box was acting up. Same software but more stable boxes. They know I love my tivos but I can't reccomend them a premiere. They need something that is rock solid and I know I'll be fielding calls if they get a TiVo that keeps rebooting. I've been burnt and wasted a lot of time on a rebooting TiVo and I'm not ready to reccomend TiVo or the useless support until they fix their software


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## beejay

compnurd said:


> The bugs are hit and miss. It appears anyone without a Tuning Adapter has had very little issues.


I do not have a tuning adapter and still have the reboot issue.


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## indiantime9

for the past two weeks I have been trying to 'force' a connection on my premier for the most recent update and #1 it is constantly rebooting, #2 "unknown error" message "unable to connect" #3 I am now without ANY info what so ever. (note: forcing was a recommendation of a TiVo service rep) this machine is not even a year old and will not update. I have normal phone service, I have comcast cable and I have DSL as an internet provider. I am beyond frustrated...help please!


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## todd_j_derr

I am still seeing it occasionally but not nearly as much as the multiple reboots per week I was getting before.

FWIW, I haven't seen any evidence TAs make the problem more or less likely; I don't have one and I certainly had plenty of problems.


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## hillyard

compnurd said:


> The bugs are hit and miss. It appears anyone without a Tuning Adapter has had very little issues. I am leaning towards based on the threads the tuning adapter having issues with 4 tuners. You have 30 days to return it


I don't have an adapter and it happens when streaming to another room. happens about twice a week and tivo had the unplug wait plugin wait unplug remove cable card plug in responce


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## haplo888

Wendy in NY said:


> I'm sure that the later models will have the reboot issue resolved but then where would that leave us?


Well the newest XL4s still seem to have the problem. I got my XL4 2 days ago and have had 2 crashes/reboots.

Everything is up to date, no tuning adapter, and since I just got it, it's virtually empty.

Haplo


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## aaronwt

Whether it's empty or full should not make a difference. I've had my Elites at 100%, 0% and everything in between. They have worked the same no matter how much was on the hard drive.


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## MJHoltorf

compnurd said:


> The bugs are hit and miss. It appears anyone without a Tuning Adapter has had very little issues. I am leaning towards based on the threads the tuning adapter having issues with 4 tuners. You have 30 days to return it


They are indeed hit or miss. FWIW, I have had a Premiere since April and an XL4 activated since 5/12. They both use Motorola M-Cards and TA's. I have had absolutely 0 problems from day 1. The activation of the units took longer than I expected (a few hours with Cox Cable tech support). Once that was complete, the Spring update hit both units, and they both survived the reboots with no trouble. I use MRS a fair amount (wired GigE), and the XL4 has been recording suggestions constantly since it was activated. So that is 0 reboots, 20 season passes and counting, consistent MRS, no missed recordings. As I mentioned in another thread, your mileage may vary.

I am very happy at this point, but based on the horror stories in this and other threads, maybe I'm really lucky. There are a lot of variables in this unfortunately. Software, hardware, cable companies... it is hard to say it is any one thing. For me, the software works great. OK, no Amazon Prime yet, the other apps need polishing, etc., but for a DVR, it has been rock-solid, just like I would expect. I think tuning adapters are an annoying kludge, but they work fine so far. I have not messed with online season passes, so I can't vouch for the reboot it has caused others. I probably will not tempt fate by doing so.

I feel for all of you that are having these troubles. I am only hoping that your experiences are truly not the norm, and that they get resolved. Since I know it is possible to use a Premiere or XL4 in my particular situation, I would feel comfortable recommending them to someone else that had that same situation. I can't vouch for anywhere else though.


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## haplo888

aaronwt said:


> Whether it's empty or full should not make a difference. I've had my Elites at 100%, 0% and everything in between. They have worked the same no matter how much was on the hard drive.


Do you have a slide remote?

I read somebody else that's having troubles with reboots like I am on their XL4 also had a slide remote.


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## rhettf

Last week I as on a business trip in Vegas, occasionally I would use my slingplayer to connect back to my TiVo. 

On the third night I connected to my Tivo and it had rebooted but was sitting at teh DVR Extender Warning. Saying the Drive couldn't be found (I have had this happen before and i had to unplug both the drive and the Tivo before the TiVo started again) 

It was very frustrating since unless I told the Tivo to disconnect the drive complete I couldn't get the box to restart. 

I wish Tivo gave us a way to restart the power via a remote command at that screen. 

I am thinking I might need to setup a power outlet that can be turned of via a IR remote. Currently I have a little IR Remote for two outlets (normally for christmas lights - it just plugs in between the wall outlet and the plug itself) I am thinking about programing the lights IR command into my slingbox and have the Tivo box and Drive plug into the outlets so if need be I can "unplug" the TiVo box while away. 

Any other ideas on how to restart the box from afar? has anyone else have had problems with the external storage on the Elite after a reboot?


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## aaronwt

haplo888 said:


> Do you have a slide remote?
> 
> I read somebody else that's having troubles with reboots like I am on their XL4 also had a slide remote.


yes. I use a Slide remote on both of my Elites.


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## haplo888

aaronwt said:


> yes. I use a Slide remote on both of my Elites.


Sounds like some are just more stable than others then. Maybe I'll RMA this XL4.


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## bigguy126

Count me in on the reboot problem. I have a xl4 activated on 5/14. Had 2 reboots. Once when watching live tv with no recordings happening. Picture froze and then rebooted. Another time picture froze and unit became unresponsive had to pull plug. Both time called support and we went thru all the diag screens. Found my SNR on my signal to be a little high but other than that nothing. Getting a rma box today. BTW no extender or slide remote.


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## Wendy in NY

Well, my Elite progressively got worse in that it started to spontaneously reboot everyday. It would happen while I was watching a recorded program, watching a live program, while I was at work and even when nothing was powered on. Additionally, the sound would drop off as well and that would happen when I'd go between TiVo Central and Zoom, after coming back from a Paused state, after unMuting from a Mute state, after FF or RW, and the worse is when I'd turn everything on and have to turn things off and on about 5-6 times to finally get some sound.

I called Tech Support today and they're sending me a refurbished box too. I'm not crazy about refurbished goods but hey, it it's the light at the end of this frustrating tunnel, then I'll gladly take it! I should have it by Friday...


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> Well, my Elite progressively got worse in that it started to spontaneously reboot everyday. It would happen while I was watching a recorded program, watching a live program, while I was at work and even when nothing was powered on. Additionally, the sound would drop off as well and that would happen when I'd go between TiVo Central and Zoom, after coming back from a Paused state, after unMuting from a Mute state, after FF or RW, and the worse is when I'd turn everything on and have to turn things off and on about 5-6 times to finally get some sound.
> 
> I called Tech Support today and they're sending me a refurbished box too. I'm not crazy about refurbished goods but hey, it it's the light at the end of this frustrating tunnel, then I'll gladly take it! I should have it by Friday...


Only way I'd accept a referb unit would be if they offered a life time subscription for cheap....
Otherwise, ask for a check for the full amount of the purchase. 
Then go buy a new unit...
or
Abandon the idea of getting a TiVo XL4.


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## aaronwt

refurb should be fine. I have zero problems owning any refurb electronics. Refurbished items typically go through a much more rigourous check list than a new item.

If given the choice between a refurb and a new item, as long as the warranty and return policy is the same, I'll take the refurb over the new item. But even if the warranty is shorter, if I can save a decent amount of money on the refurb, I'll still go with the refurbished item. I've owned many refurbished items over the last twenty years.


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## Wendy in NY

@Teeps - well I did pay the extra $500 for lifetime service so that should help!

@Aaron - I do believe as you said that refurbished devices go through a wringer that new devices normally don't go through so hopefully this will be the end of my frustrations and I hope no new ones pop up!


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> @Teeps - well I did pay the extra $500 for lifetime service


Ouch!

I would still insist on a new unit.
Is TiVo paying shipping both ways?
If not, they should...


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## Wendy in NY

Teeps said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I would still insist on a new unit.
> Is TiVo paying shipping both ways?
> If not, they should...


Yes, TiVo pays for shipping both ways.


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## Teeps

At least you're not out the shipping.


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## rrg

Revisiting this again. The complaints about spontaneous reboots with the Elite (I guess it's now the XL4) seemed to have stopped. This makes it seem like it might be safe to try again. But it's a such a major investment in time, money, and trouble that I wanted to ask about it here again before attempting it.

I haven't been tracking software updates to the Premiere line since I don't own one. Have there been any recently, and might they have improved the stability of the XL4?


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## CoxInPHX

You should have taken advantage of the Woot Elite sale for $299.99.

My approach was that if I had any problems within the first 30 days the Elite/XL4 was going back and canceling the service. I did not experience any issues.

I have had one issue were I did loose all channels recently, except for the currently active Live TV channel, a Reboot of the TiVo did not resolve the problem, then I rebooted the TA and everything was back.

I try never to leave a tuner on a channel that uses SDV, In my case that is easy as there are very few SDV channels I watch or record.

Early this week I noticed all tuners were on the same channel, so I looked at the time since OOB Tuned and noticed it had rebooted sometime in the early morning hours. That was the first random reboot I have noticed. I have had a few lockups were I had to pull the plug though.

Every minor issue I have had though, I have experienced at least once on my regular Premiere.


----------



## b_scott

my launch Premire XL has been rebooting randomly the last couple weeks too. I can tell because of my "tricks" being reset such as the quick clear code. This is not good.

To say nothing of the reboot when Netflix glitches.


----------



## wackymann

My Elite hasn't spontaneously rebooted since 2011...


----------



## Teeps

wackymann said:


> My Elite hasn't spontaneously rebooted since 2011...


Now that's what I like to hear...


----------



## Wendy in NY

rrg said:


> Revisiting this again. The complaints about spontaneous reboots with the Elite (I guess it's now the XL4) seemed to have stopped. This makes it seem like it might be safe to try again. But it's a such a major investment in time, money, and trouble that I wanted to ask about it here again before attempting it.
> 
> I haven't been tracking software updates to the Premiere line since I don't own one. Have there been any recently, and might they have improved the stability of the XL4?


First, the XL4 is just the new name for the Elite. That's what the tech told me when I called in my Elite with spontaneous reboots. Anyway, as per my earlier posts, I called in my Elite and I was told that I would be sent an XL4 (I have the lifetime warranty and what I got was another Eite. Whatever.) That was back in July, I think. (I'd have to look at my TiVo account to verify that.) In any case, I just got my first spontaneous reboot. I was recording 2 shows and watching a recorded show when all of the sudden all red lights came on and the inevitable reboot. Sigh. Do I call and start up a ticket or do I wait 'til it happens again. Since I have lifetime warranty, they can probably just send my another but I don't want to have to go through that over and over and over again.


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## beejay

I still have occasional reboots. Had one two nights ago. On 20.2.1.2 I have had a reboot on average every 334 hours.

It has varied with various software versions, but there isn't any clear trend (for me) that it is getting better.

I can tolerate this. But I wouldn't say it's fixed.


----------



## rrg

Thanks for the updates. I was on the verge of trying again with the Elite/XL4/whatever (it's been about a year). But I can't tolerate reboots of this sort, even if they're infrequent--at least not while I have rock-solid Series 3 units with 1 TB drives and lifetime service. Maybe they're six years old but they do the job I need them to do and they do it well.


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## Ziggy86

Yesterday for some reason my Tivo Elite would not respond to my remote contol, the lights on the front would recognize my remote button presses but nothing would happen. I have 4 remotes and changed the batteries to see if that was the issue but it did not help.

I rebooted and everything was back to normal. Anyone else ever have this issue?


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## moyekj

Ziggy86 said:


> Yesterday for some reason my Tivo Elite would not respond to my remote contol, the lights on the front would recognize my remote button presses but nothing would happen. I have 4 remotes and changed the batteries to see if that was the issue but it did not help.
> 
> I rebooted and everything was back to normal. Anyone else ever have this issue?


Stops Responding to Remote Commands


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## dianebrat

Wendy in NY said:


> First, the XL4 is just the new name for the Elite. That's what the tech told me when I called in my Elite with spontaneous reboots. Anyway, as per my earlier posts, I called in my Elite and I was told that I would be sent an XL4 *(I have the lifetime warranty *and what I got was another Eite. Whatever.) That was back in July, I think. (I'd have to look at my TiVo account to verify that.) In any case, I just got my first spontaneous reboot. I was recording 2 shows and watching a recorded show when all of the sudden all red lights came on and the inevitable reboot. Sigh. Do I call and start up a ticket or do I wait 'til it happens again. * Since I have lifetime warranty,* they can probably just send my another but I don't want to have to go through that over and over and over again.


I don't think you're correct unless you bought an additional extended warranty somewhere, what you purchased was a Lifetime Subscription to the Tivo service.


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## Wendy in NY

Ziggy86 said:


> Yesterday for some reason my Tivo Elite would not respond to my remote contol, the lights on the front would recognize my remote button presses but nothing would happen. I have 4 remotes and changed the batteries to see if that was the issue but it did not help.
> 
> I rebooted and everything was back to normal. Anyone else ever have this issue?


That actually happened to me on Tuesday last week. Maybe that was the precursor to my 1st spontaneous reboot on Wednesday with my replacement Elite. Btw, I just got my 2nd spontaneous reboot. Hell, I have lifetime service so I'm just going to call them and open a ticket. If they have to send me another box, so be it.


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## Wendy in NY

dianebrat said:


> I don't think you're correct unless you bought an additional extended warranty somewhere, what you purchased was a Lifetime Subscription to the Tivo service.


Hi Diane, what I paid extra for (I believe it was an addition $500 when I bought the Elite in October 2011--now referred to as the XL4) is for lifetime service.


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## Wendy in NY

Just got my 2nd spontaneous reboot on my replacement box that I received in July (the 1st reboot occured on 9/26.) This time nothing was recording and I was watching a live program.

Now that my Fall/Winter shows are coming back (The Walking Dead, American Horror Story, etc.) I don't want it happening at all! Time to place a call. Again.


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## Wendy in NY

UPDATE:

I just spoke to TiVo and we went into my box's settings. My RS Uncorrected number should be 0 and it's at 4679! The TiVo tech advised that I should call my cable company (the ever so sucky Cablevision) and make them aware of that number. Supposedly they should know what to do by sending a tech (I'll be surprised if they do). That number means that the signal coming into the box is no good and he said that he's surprised that when I first called in the problem with my first Elite that that tech didn't tell me the same and that that's probably what the problem's been all along. Stay tuned...


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## uw69

Where do you find the "RS" number? Thanks


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## Wendy in NY

uw69 said:


> Where do you find the "RS" number? Thanks


Sure, it's:

TiVo button--Settings & Messages--Account & System Info--DVR Diagnostics

In this screen you'll see a bunch of categories. The ones pertinent to my issues are as follow:

Tuner - should be 0
Signal Strength - should be upwards of 80 (mine is at 90-92)
SNR - 36 dB
RS Uncorrected - should be 0 (mine is 4679!)
RS Corrected - mine shows 54 which is fine because it corrected whatever it did

In any case, I just spoke to Cablevision and they'll be here on Thursday the 4th. What they'll do is they'll check the strength of the signal coming into my building, they'll test the signal strength of the coaxial cable and if it's low, they'll boost the signal.

I'll keep you posted!


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## CoxInPHX

RS Uncorrected around 5000 on the Elite/XL4 is what everyone is seeing, so that is not the only issue. Every Elite owner will chime in, I have never seen much less than 5000 reported.


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## aaronwt

As long as the number doesn't increase it's fine. It's when it is increasing that there is an issue.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


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## djwilso

Wendy in NY said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I just spoke to TiVo and we went into my box's settings. My RS Uncorrected number should be 0 and it's at 4679! The TiVo tech advised that I should call my cable company (the ever so sucky Cablevision) and make them aware of that number. Supposedly they should know what to do by sending a tech (I'll be surprised if they do). That number means that the signal coming into the box is no good and he said that he's surprised that when I first called in the problem with my first Elite that that tech didn't tell me the same and that that's probably what the problem's been all along. Stay tuned...


My Elite always has RS Uncorrected at about 5000 after a channel change. This is normal for the Elite. The numbers on the diag screen should not continue to count up after the tuner locks in on the channel.

It's always disappointing that TiVo Support doesn't know how the various boxes behave.


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## wackymann

One thing I did was put in a UPS. I'm not sure if that was my issue, or if something else changed, but I haven't seen a reboot since I put in my UPS. If anyone is desperate for something to try, you may want to try that.


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## aaronwt

A UPS is one of the things every DVR should be connected to. I can't say I've ever used a TiVo or any DVR without being connected to a UPS over the last 11+ years. And prior to that I had my VCRs connected to a UPS. (in the second half of the 90's.)


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## duanew

aaronwt said:


> A UPS is one of the things every DVR should be connected to. I can't say I've ever used a TiVo or any DVR without being connected to a UPS over the last 11+ years. And prior to that I had my VCRs connected to a UPS. (in the second half of the 90's.)


I lived in a neighborhood where there was a period of time that the power would go off for about 2 seconds as often as 3 times a week. I got tired of looking at the "Tivo is startin up" screen and bought a UPS. I got a real tiny one. It would only run my Tivo and DLP tv for about 5 minutes. That was all it took most of the time to make sure that the Tivo did not turn off or that I was able to turn the TV off naturally.


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## uw69

thank you


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## Wendy in NY

5000? Really? Geez, why didn't the tech tell me that? He told me that the RS Uncorrected number should be 0. Humf.

Hey, which UPS would you recommend? I'll get one today!


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## Wendy in NY

Well the Cablevision tech came out 6 hours ago and he tested the signal strength of what is coming into the Elite box and everything passed with flying colors. Guess what? My box is rebooting as I write this. I'm on hold right now waiting to talk to a TiVo tech to report the now 3rd time that this replacement box is now rebooting. This is VERY frustrating and it's beyond pissing me off. It's actually worse than my first Elite box.


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## Ziggy86

Sorry to hear that Wendy. Hope they get it worked out for you  I live in Queens NY and am using FiOs and my TiVo has only rebooted twice in the last 6-8 months. Keep us posted.


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## Wendy in NY

Ziggy86 said:


> Sorry to hear that Wendy. Hope they get it worked out for you  I live in Queens NY and am using FiOs and my TiVo has only rebooted twice in the last 6-8 months. Keep us posted.


Thanks Ziggy. We're prob not far from each other. I'm in the Park Slope area of Brooklyn. Anyway, I just purchased a UPS and I hope that works out for me. This tech said that maybe it's because my TiVo is plugged into a power strip and not the wall though my very first TiVo was a premiere XL, plugged in the same way, and never rebooted. In any case, I just purchased a UPS and hopefully that'll end things. ARGH!


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## Wendy in NY

On October 4 my Elite spontaneously rebooted. I opened a ticket number and the tech, as someone else here did as well, suggested that I purchase a UPS and plug the TiVo into that. The tech told me the TiVo should be plugged into the battery side of the UPS. So far things are swell...

Until just a few minutes ago when the Elite rebooted. WTF? Seriously? I jinxed myself as I started to write this message to say that all is good so far and then GOTCHA! Just when I thought it was safe...

TiVo support is closed right now but I'll give them a call tomorrow with the ticket number. I suspect that they're going to want to ship yet another refurbished box to me. I don't know what else to do. I got a new cable card, I unplugged the bluetooth dongal for the slide remote and used the regular remote--I just don't know what to do.


----------



## MeInDallas

Did you get that new fall update on yours yet?


----------



## CoxInPHX

I have experienced some minor, random Video and Audio glitching on my Elite since the update to 20.2.2 The glitching is not in the recording itself, because when I go back later and rewatch the recording the glitching is not there. To me it seems like the CPU is maxed out at that particular time.

Has anyone experienced this with the Fall update?


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## horseplay

My XL4 just rebooted itself. Some video and audio glitching before.


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> On October 4 my Elite spontaneously rebooted.
> <snip> The tech told me the TiVo should be plugged into the battery side of the UPS. So far things are swell...
> 
> Until just a few minutes ago when the Elite rebooted.
> 
> -I just don't know what to do. <snip>


With a new UPS in the mix, that should eliminate power problems. Unless you are really unlucky, it's not likely that another TiVo box has the same problem...

A thought: How old is the cabling for your TiVo/TV?
A suggestion: Have the incoming cable signal checked @ the TiVo.


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## Wendy in NY

Teeps said:


> With a new UPS in the mix, that should eliminate power problems. Unless you are really unlucky, it's not likely that another TiVo box has the same problem...
> 
> A thought: How old is the cabling for your TiVo/TV?
> A suggestion: Have the incoming cable signal checked @ the TiVo.


Hi Teeps,

My TiVo has that 20.2... upgrade which I received in January. Before the Elite, I had the Premiere XL and that NEVER gave me a problem. It was bliss after my awful experiences with Cablevision and their boxes. Anyway the cabling is 2 years old (I moved to my place here in June 2010) and my cable signal was checked by a cablevision technician that visited exactly a month ago. Everything was swell as far as cabling and the buidling's cabling goes. I just spoke to a TiVo tech and yet again, they're going to be sending me another Elite. Sigh. I just want to have peace of mind! I'm back to having that Russian Roulette feeling: Will it reboot while recordings are happening? Will it not reboot? Is it rebooting while I'm sleeping? When it rebooted yesterday, it screwed up 2 recordings that were going on. I will completely go berzerk if it chooses to reboot while it's recoring The Walking Dead!

I'll be able to transfer my season passes and other scheduled recordings to the incoming TiVo box (just like last time) but unfortunately I won't be able to transfer over my already recorded shows. Instead, I'll copy them to my desktop via TiVo Desktop and then access my PC through My Shows on the incoming TiVo. I haven't watched ANY Walking Dead shows yet (they're are 5 so far) 'cause I like to watch them marathon style so I DEFINITELY don't want to lose those!


----------



## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> I'll be able to transfer my season passes and other scheduled recordings to the incoming TiVo box (just like last time) but unfortunately I won't be able to transfer over my already recorded shows. Instead, I'll copy them to my desktop via TiVo Desktop and then access my PC through My Shows on the incoming TiVo. I haven't watched ANY Walking Dead shows yet (they're are 5 so far) 'cause I like to watch them marathon style so I DEFINITELY don't want to lose those!


Sorry to hear you have to go through another TiVo install again.
At this point, I would ask TiVo for a free life time subscription, if you don't already have one. That's the least TiVo should do for your trouble...

If you are recording the complete season of a program and then watch. You could consider some of the download options, rather than play Russian Roulette with your unluck with TiVo.

There have been many programs over the years that I have had to download and watch via Home Theater PC.


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## Wendy in NY

Teeps said:


> Sorry to hear you have to go through another TiVo install again.
> At this point, I would ask TiVo for a free life time subscription, if you don't already have one. That's the least TiVo should do for your trouble...
> 
> If you are recording the complete season of a program and then watch. You could consider some of the download options, rather than play Russian Roulette with your unluck with TiVo.
> 
> There have been many programs over the years that I have had to download and watch via Home Theater PC.


I paid for a life time subscription at the point that I purchased the first Elite box. It gets transferred to the incoming box. ugh, I just checked and The Walking Dead is nontransferrable so I'm forced to now watch them before swapping out the box. @#$&*! I don't know if with this next box I should call Cablevision to have them send me yet another new M-card or if I should refrain from using the slide remote. Double @#$&*!


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## nrc

Wendy in NY said:


> I haven't watched ANY Walking Dead shows yet (they're are 5 so far) 'cause I like to watch them marathon style so I DEFINITELY don't want to lose those!


Episode 5 is on Sunday so one of those recordings is probably the sneak preview. You'll get through them quickly once you get started.  Great series.

It's really improbable that you're just that unlucky so it seems like it must be something in your environment. Power problems were the most likely and the UPS should take care of that. How about ventilation? Normally TiVo will give a warning if temps are too high but who knows. Vibration? Is your TiVo on top of a paint mixer?

Have you tried emailing Margret at TiVo? Maybe they'd be willing to comb through your logs and see what's going on.


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## Teeps

nrc said:


> How about ventilation? Normally TiVo will give a warning if temps are too high but who knows.


Good thought; ventilation.
I my S3 TiVo runs consistently above 51C during summer months without any problems.


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## Wendy in NY

nrc said:


> Episode 5 is on Sunday so one of those recordings is probably the sneak preview. You'll get through them quickly once you get started.  Great series.
> 
> It's really improbable that you're just that unlucky so it seems like it must be something in your environment. Power problems were the most likely and the UPS should take care of that. How about ventilation? Normally TiVo will give a warning if temps are too high but who knows. Vibration? Is your TiVo on top of a paint mixer?
> 
> Have you tried emailing Margret at TiVo? Maybe they'd be willing to comb through your logs and see what's going on.


Yeah, TWD is GREAT! I've been reading the comics long before the show started and Kirkman's two tangent novels are just as good.

Here's a pic of my setup. The top row from left to right consists of my BluRay player, TiVo (there are 12 inches of space behind the Tivo plus an additional 17 or so inches from the back of the entertainment center before the wall and about 5 inches on each side) and my DVD/VHS player. The bottom row from left to right is my Playstation, UPS and woofer share the middle cubby, and my modem and router share the last cubby. This is exactly as it was when I had the Premiere XL (sans the UPS) and I never had a problem...


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## curiousgeorge

mattack said:


> So, have you people with the reboots called up Tivo and complained?


Why? With the recent history of TiVo for the last 3 years or so being just throwing out unfinished and buggy software and updates, then maybe fixing them or maybe not, you might as well complain to the wall. It will probably be more responsive. Modern TiVo as a company is nothing like TiVo from the Series 1-3 days. The indifference/ineptitude was actually already starting to show during the S3 days, to be honest.

Sad state of affairs, but until they finish the Premiere and/or FIX the Premiere Elites, we've bought our last TiVo anything. No XL, No Elite, No TiVo Stream, nothing - skipped them all and will continue to do so, living with the full-price Premieres we preordered when TiVo lied and said the shortcomings would be fixed soon after launch.


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## nrc

Wendy in NY said:


> Yeah, TWD is GREAT! I've been reading the comics long before the show started and Kirkman's two tangent novels are just as good.


I've only read up to roughly where they are in the series. Between that and Game of Thrones it's something to read in the off-season.

Your setup looks fine. Unless your sub is creating massive vibration through the whole entertainment center, yours isn't that much different than mine. Plenty of ventilation for the TiVo.

The only other thing I can think of is to make sure the power connector is seated firmly in the back of the TiVo.

Again, I'd suggest emailing Margret at TiVo. At this point I've got to think it's a bug related to something in the guide data or signal from your provider.


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## Wendy in NY

I wish it were the sub then I can pinpoint something! But alas, it was the same setup with the Premiere XL which never gave me a problem. All the cables are seated properly (as an IT Specialist, it's always the easiest thing to check first!) Basically, I'm at a loss. If this 3rd Elite they ship me starts to behave the same way, I'm just going to put up with it. I can't stand having to swap out devices on a consistent basis. I just wish I can experience peace of mind! The sound constantly drops in and out and all of this since the Elite.

The signal coming into my TiVo and into the building was checked by the Cablevision tech a month ago to rule that out. Everything was where it should be. He was actually surprised that I was having problems because he hears that TiVo is the BEST.

Who is Margret? Is her email address listed here somewhere?


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## nrc

Wendy in NY said:


> The signal coming into my TiVo and into the building was checked by the Cablevision tech a month ago to rule that out. Everything was where it should be. He was actually surprised that I was having problems because he hears that TiVo is the BEST.


I'm thinking more along the lines of something in the guide data or cableCARD configuration for your provider triggering a TiVo bug that doesn't impact others. Not really a signal issue but a data issue.



> Who is Margret? Is her email address listed here somewhere?


Margret is TiVo's Vice President of Design & Engineering. She's @tivodesign on Twitter. She's asked folks here with persistent problems to email her at margret at tivo.com in the past so I don't think she'd mind if you did the same given your persistent problems.


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## Wendy in NY

I'll send her a message. Thanks for your suggestions. #@$&%!


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## kbtivo

I too have had several spontaneous reboots recently. The most recent happened with the Fall Update code. I cannot recall what SW version the Premier was running several weeks before when the previous reboot happened.


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## kbtivo

Two tuner premier - running 20.2.2.1-01-2-746. Three to four reboots in the last 4-5 weeks.

Contacted Tivo support - tried to suggest the HDMI cable to the TV was the problem. Or that the recent SW update "damaged the disk".


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## MHunter1

kbtivo said:


> I too have had several spontaneous reboots recently


I have two TiVo Premiere Elite DVRs:

11/7 2:33pm - DVR2 crashed and rebooted on its own.

11/8 6:19pm - DVR2 crashed and rebooted on its own while watching a recording. Screen flickered a few times before crash.

11/12 2:10pm - DVR1 frozen on My Shows while navigating UI. Remote control LED on front panel stopped responding after a while then DVR crashed & rebooted on its own.

11/18 6:23pm - DVR1 crashed and rebooted on its own.

11/19 12:11pm - DVR1 crashed and rebooted on its own while watching a recorded program.

11/28 7:20am - DVR1 crashed and rebooted on its own overnight.

12/06 9:30am - DVR2 received v20.2.2 update, rebooted overnight on its own without user input.

So far, both of my Elites have been stable after getting the v20.2.2 software update on 12/7 which reduced RS-uncorrected numbers (shown in diagnostics) from thousands to zero.


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## wackymann

Today I had my first spontaneous reboot in a year... between this and losing all of my channels twice recently, it's starting to piss me off. Everything was peachy until the software updates started a couple of months ago. Maybe it's finally time to try out a Ceton.


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## Wendy in NY

I finally received the replacement Elite (I'd originally placed the call on 11/9 and there were mix-ups and finally got it last week) AND I got a new cable card. I figure let's make it all new. So far no reboots but only time will tell. I got the Fall Update when I connected the TiVo and do like that I can still watch the little video window while I'm browsing through my Season Passes. However,

I transferred the Season Passes from my old box to this new one through the Tivo.com website as I'd done before successfully and while some came through, most are listed as Corrupt - Delete Me with a status of (updating...). WTF is that? I removed them and tried again and still the same. I left them that way for now close to 48 hours to see if they would truly update but nothing. When I called TiVo Support they told me that I would have to reprogram those passes which is unfortunate because a lot of them are not in the guide because they're not due to start 'til the Spring/Summer so now I'm going to have to be vigilant as to when the shows start for me to reprogram them. Needless to say, I've been a TiVo customer since 5/2011 and because of the constant problems, I've still not reaped the benefits of a Season Pass...


----------



## Teeps

wackymann said:


> Maybe it's finally time to try out a Ceton.


The price has come way down on the Ceton from a couple of years ago.
And, I've been tempted to go that way too, but...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336614/latest-ceton-infinitv-4-info-thread

You should browse this thread before jumping in.


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## jaylogs

rrg said:


> Let's not lose sight of the fact that the reboot problem is NOT confined to those users who are using the online Season Pass feature. While that problem certainly needs to be fixed there's more required on TiVo's part.


Yup, here's one of them users! So tonight I was watching TV through my Tivo XL4, it wasn't recording, I wasn't looking at anything else, no online programming, just simply watching TV, and it reboots! I just thought that I would pipe in, as I haven't really seen many complaints about a reboot such as what mine just did. My daughter tells me this has happened late at night sometimes as well.
Jay


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## MHunter1

My two TiVo Premiere Elite DVRs were stable and crash-free for 10 days after getting the v20.2.2.1 update. Now the crashes have started up again:

12/17 8:23pm - DVR1 frozen on Please Wait screen after modifying the maximum episode setting of a Season Pass. Required hard reboot.

12/22 7:29pm - DVR1 crashed and rebooted on its own while navigating UI.

12/23 11:32am - DVR2 frozen on Please Wait screen after changing the keep-until date of a program. Required hard reboot.

12/24 8:49am - DVR1 crashed and rebooted on its own while watching a recorded program.

The RS-uncorrected error numbers (shown in diagnostics) are still zero, so why have the crashes returned?

Even when the DVRs are stable, there are serious usability flaws with the My Shows list that force it to jump up, down, and left on its own whenever a new recording begins.

This v20.2.2 is a terrible software update, and releasing it just in time for new TiVo owners who will be setting up their DVR for the first time on Christmas is just asking for people to reconsider if TiVo is really worth the premium cost over a generic cableco DVR.


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## kfeltes

Wanted to share my story. I have an elite and I am using moca. I have a fairly new house and all cables are homerunned to a closet in the basement.

A TiVo hd worked perfectly in the same location for about 3 years. I moved the hd to a bedroom and replaced w an elite. The elite has rebooted randomly and I could never understand why. TiVo told me to just power it up and don't connect anything (tv or internet or phone) and let it run for a week to see if it reboots. I was able to do this and discovered the elite never rebooted. So I decided to trouble shoot my cabling. I discovered I had used a cheep 5-900 MHz splitter in my entertainment center for my receiver to tune fm. Ah ha! I removed that cheap splitter and my elite has been running perfectly ever since! I hope this helps.


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## pspens

My brand new Premier 4 crashed for the first time yesterday. It shouldn't have been a power glitch, since it's on an UPS. Is there any way to get under the hood to the log files which certainly must be present? As I understand it, Tivos run on Linux.


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## Wendy in NY

Wendy in NY said:


> I finally received the replacement Elite (I'd originally placed the call on 11/9 and there were mix-ups and finally got it last week) AND I got a new cable card. I figure let's make it all new. So far no reboots but only time will tell. I got the Fall Update when I connected the TiVo and do like that I can still watch the little video window while I'm browsing through my Season Passes. However,
> 
> I transferred the Season Passes from my old box to this new one through the Tivo.com website as I'd done before successfully and while some came through, most are listed as Corrupt - Delete Me with a status of (updating...). WTF is that? I removed them and tried again and still the same. I left them that way for now close to 48 hours to see if they would truly update but nothing. When I called TiVo Support they told me that I would have to reprogram those passes which is unfortunate because a lot of them are not in the guide because they're not due to start 'til the Spring/Summer so now I'm going to have to be vigilant as to when the shows start for me to reprogram them. Needless to say, I've been a TiVo customer since 5/2011 and because of the constant problems, I've still not reaped the benefits of a Season Pass...


I posted the above back in late November, early December. I thought that I was homefree as this box was not rebooting BUT the $#@% sound would drop off for ridiculous lengths of times. I'd be away from the living room and all of a sudden I wouldn't hear the TV anymore and my heart would drop because I thought the box was rebooting but when I'd run to the living room, there simply would be no sound. I'd have to rewind the segment and the sound would be there. Sometimes I'd have to rewind about 3-4 times to get the sound back. Eventually I started timing how long the sound would be out and the shortest was 5 seconds while the longest was 82 seconds! WTF??? Then it had to happen. The box started spontaneously rebooting. Sigh.

Today, 3/21, I received my now FOURTH TiVo Elite box which I'll hook up on Saturday. I already know what's going to happen. I'll be able to transfer the season passes that are coming up now but the shows that have just ended will transfer over as corrupt which means that if this box lasts through the Fall, then I'll have to be vigilant as to when the Fall shows come back so that I can reprogram them. Can someone please tell me what it's like to actually reap the benefits of a Season Pass? Sigh.

Oh yeah, while I was chatting with the TiVo tech, I asked, "Can you guys send me a NEW box and not a refurbished box?" to which the tech replied, "We don't have refurbished boxes yet." Really? Whatev. Also, CableVision told me that everytime I remove/insert the card, it gets degraded. Not my fault the friggin' TiVo Elites keep bombing out on me.


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## Arcady

I've had the same Elite since launch week. No issues.


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## MeInDallas

Wendy in NY said:


> Today, 3/21, I received my now FOURTH TiVo Elite box


You sound like me, I went thru 4 of them as well


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## Wendy in NY

Arcady - You are soooo lucky! Send some of that luck to NY, will ya? I could only wish!

Dallas - Let's hope our 4th boxes are the charm.


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## aaronwt

I've had one Elite since launch and my second Elite for a year. No problems with either of them. That is the norm. Unfortunately a small percentage has had issues.

Although it seems very unusual to have to go through four boxes. There aren't some external things causing the issues?


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## MeInDallas

I would love to see some actual statistics on it being "the norm" but I've never seen any. I would say "the norm" is that as soon as people post that they are having problems, theres always a group of people that come in behind and say: 

#1 "Well I'm not having any issues, so you shouldnt either"
#2 "My Tivo isnt messing up, so it must be something you are doing wrong on your end"
#3 "My Tivo is fine, and I've had it since release, so theres nothing wrong"
#4 "Nothing wrong here with mine, so it must be your cable company"

And it goes on and on and on that way back and forth.


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## Arcady

My reply was meant more like this:

#0 "My TiVo works fine, and I'm sorry yours doesn't."


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## L David Matheny

Wendy in NY said:


> Not my fault the friggin' TiVo Elites keep bombing out on me.


I'm sure it's not your fault personally, but having three Elites fail randomly should be unusual. You might want to insure that all of your power outlets and your cable feed are properly grounded. And use a good surge protector or preferably a UPS for your TiVo.


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## aaronwt

MeInDallas said:


> I would love to see some actual statistics on it being "the norm" but I've never seen any. I would say "the norm" is that as soon as people post that they are having problems, theres always a group of people that come in behind and say:
> 
> #1 "Well I'm not having any issues, so you shouldnt either"
> #2 "My Tivo isnt messing up, so it must be something you are doing wrong on your end"
> #3 "My Tivo is fine, and I've had it since release, so theres nothing wrong"
> #4 "Nothing wrong here with mine, so it must be your cable company"
> 
> And it goes on and on and on that way back and forth.


I did not imply any of those things.


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> CableVision told me that everytime I remove/insert the card, it gets degraded.


I'm throwing the B/S flag on this one... did he/she say how that could be?


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## Bierboy

Teeps said:


> I'm throwing the B/S flag on this one... did he/she say how that could be?


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## Wendy in NY

Aaron, Arcady - no worries here. I knew what you meant and I wish I had your luck! Ugh. I'd just like to have a Tivo Elite last through a number of seasons so that I too can experience the bliss of not having to be vigilant on the return of upcoming shows and having to program them. As far as external devices, I've unplugged the bluetooth dongal (I have the slide remote) and reverted to usiong the regular remote for about a month and still the reboots. 

L David - Yeah, I've had the outlets tested, the signal strength coming into my building (I live in a condo) has been tested, with the 3rd box I had it plugged into my UPS (the tech told me that I need to plug it directly into the wall which I did but no dice, the reboots continued.) I'm an IT so I got the good stuff when it comes to UPSes and surge protectors. 

Teeps - BS indeed! I'm with you on that but in all fairness, the cable card has gone kaput several times after reboots. What winds up happening is that I get a message saying "you're not authorized to view this channel" on every channel and without telling CableVision about reboots, they ask me if I've been unplugging the power from the TiVo so who really knows?


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## jmbach

I wonder if the Tivo is having some kind of kernel panic and rebooting. Could be some king of information the card passes on to the Tivo that it doesn't know how to handle. There is a way of getting into a debug screen to read some of the messages and errors. When I remember how I'll post back. I did it on an XL. Not sure if a reboot will erase a kernel panic message.


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## jmbach

Alright. In the System Information screen enter 'clear clear enter enter 0' and you should get access to a screen that allows you to view the logs on the var partition. Maybe some information there will shed some light. Especially if you know the date and time it happened.


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## Wendy in NY

jmbach said:


> Alright. In the System Information screen enter 'clear clear enter enter 0' and you should get access to a screen that allows you to view the logs on the var partition. Maybe some information there will shed some light. Especially if you know the date and time it happened.


I sure do. Thanks jmbach!


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## Wendy in NY

So guess what? Replacement Box #4 which I just received on Wednesday, DOESN'T WORK! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <--manaical laugh

I removed everything from Replacement Box #3 and plugged in Replacement Box #4. It wouldn't receive a signal. I removed/replugged 3x and always the same result. Ultimately, I placed the defective Replacement Box #3 back in place.

Replacement Box #5 will be shipped out to me tomorrow, Monday. Sigh. This is becoming an epic.

Also, after trying to make Replacement Box #4 to work (removing/reinserting the cable card as well as unplugging/replugging all cables), my cable card became wackadoodle. Just like CableVision told me that the card degrades for everytime the TiVo reboots or is unplugged/replugged. Unlike in January where I had to get a new cable card with Replacement Box #3, this time all the cable card needed was to be "reactivated" again.

The reason I went with TiVo is because I loathe CableVision but unfortunately it's the only provider in my area. I had a CableVision box for 13 years and was going on Box #6 when in May 2011 I figured it's time to go with TiVo. In 13 years I became frustrated with possibly having to go to Box #6 with CableVision and hear in less than 3 years I'm up to my 5th TiVo box. :down:


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## Arcady

A CableCard is just a PCMCIA card. They are rated for thousands of insert/eject cycles over their lifetime. Ejecting and re-inserting a CableCard a few times will not "degrade" it. It may become unpaired, but that is not the same thing.

Of course, a typical cable installer will probably manage to break them because they treat equipment like crap. I saw one try repeatedly to insert a card upside down, bending the pins in the slot. I watched more than one cable installer carry cable boxes by the connected coax cables, then wonder why the connector was loose.


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> So guess what? Replacement Box #4 which I just received on Wednesday, DOESN'T WORK! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <--manaical laugh
> 
> The reason I went with TiVo is because I loathe CableVision but unfortunately it's the only provider in my area. I had a CableVision box for 13 years and was going on Box #6 when in May 2011 I figured it's time to go with TiVo. In 13 years I became frustrated with possibly having to go to Box #6 with CableVision and hear in less than 3 years I'm up to my 5th TiVo box. :down:


Wow! Just Wow!
Have you played the lottery lately?
Just pick your numbers, then go with the exact opposite numbers; should be a winner!

Some times change just doesn't work out...


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## pspens

What exactly is a Tivo Elite? Is it a series 4?


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## jay_man2

pspens said:


> What exactly is a Tivo Elite? Is it a series 4?


My Elites are now called Premiere XL4's by Tivo. It's a 4-tuner HD series 4.


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## pspens

jmbach said:


> Alright. In the System Information screen enter 'clear clear enter enter 0' and you should get access to a screen that allows you to view the logs on the var partition. Maybe some information there will shed some light. Especially if you know the date and time it happened.


Thanks. I've looking for a way to access these logs. However, it appears that the logs record only the last day or two's info. I was hoping to see what it said about a TIVO crash I had back in Feb.

Looks like there is some dangerous stuff on that "Backdoor" page.


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## jmbach

Got to be careful. Looking at the logs does no harm. Now there is a KS code that place the Tivo in forensic mode. Not completely sure what that does. I think it puts more details in the logs but don't quote me on that one.


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## CoxInPHX

jmbach said:


> Alright. In the System Information screen enter *'clear clear enter enter 0'* and you should get access to a screen that allows you to view the logs on the var partition. Maybe some information there will shed some light. Especially if you know the date and time it happened.


This log is very interesting, wish I understood it all, mine contains lots of events listed as Errors and Failures.

Had a spontaneous reboot last night on the Elite at 11:01pm (06:01 GMT) during playback, as 2 tuners started to record.

Logs list several Fatal Errors:
"TmkClipTs.C[1109]: Asked to padd a negative number of bytes -16!"
"TmkAssertion Failure[1109]"
"Thread TmkClipCache0[1109]: Thread in process killed by signal Unknown signal -2-2"
"Fatal Error: Thread TmkClipCache0 <1109> strayed!"
"Tmk Fatal Error: Thread TmkClipCache0 <1109>: assertion failure"
"Tmk Fatal Error: Thread died due to signal -2"

followed by a listing "Invoking rule 834: rebooting system


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## moyekj

Note that out of curiosity I tried the 'clear clear enter enter 0' backdoor and while it was interesting it screwed up my alternate remote address I had assigned to my Elite (I have Mini and Elite currently at same TV and using Mini as a front end to Elite for a speedier experience). I think the 0 at end of sequence resets the remote address back to 0.


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## Dr_Diablo

mine does it an Tivo claims its a defective cable card


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## beejay

Dr_Diablo said:


> mine does it an Tivo claims its a defective cable card


If you look at the logs after that happens, do you see ""Invoking rule 834: rebooting system "?

I have occasional reboots (average every 400 hours or so). Next time I'll check the logs to see what they say.

Since these logs get sent to TiVo, I would hope they are monitoring them...especially if Rule 834 indicates a software problem.


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## rhroyse

I went through a couple of replacements also, and still had spontaneous reboots. I was getting very frustrated, and blamed Tivo.

What I learned through the process was that while there may be some defective units, I think in most cases the issue is related to signal. I also believe that these units (perhaps by design, or by design fault) are very susceptible to signal transients and variations. 

I had (Charter, in my case) come out and after some testing, they ended up replacing the drop to my house. I have not had a problem since.

If you haven't already, have your company do a full signal strength test at all points along the chain.

Hope that helps.


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## Teeps

rhroyse said:


> I had (Charter, in my case) come out and after some testing, they ended up replacing the drop to my house. I have not had a problem since.


Replacing the home run drop is the place to start, especially if the cable is a few years old or more.


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## BrianHutchison

My Tivo Premiere has been running fine for almost 3 years and just about 2-3 weeks ago it started spontaneously rebooting. Not happy at all. Has done it 4 times now.


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## pspens

BrianHutchison said:


> My Tivo Premiere has been running fine for almost 3 years and just about 2-3 weeks ago it started spontaneously rebooting. Not happy at all. Has done it 4 times now.


Have you looked at the log files for any additional info? You can also run Kickstart tests, I believe, on the disk drive.


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## Wendy in NY

So far Box #5 is ok except that the %@!* audio drops out every now and then just like boxes 1-4. Today it recorded a 1 hour show--the first half had completely no audio and the 2nd half was fine. WTH? So my question:

Is this my TiVo fate? Do I live with this audio thing or should I pursue getting Box #6?


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## pspens

Wendy in NY said:


> So far Box #5 is ok except that the %@!* audio drops out every now and then just like boxes 1-4. Today it recorded a 1 hour show--the first half had completely no audio and the 2nd half was fine. WTH? So my question:
> 
> Is this my TiVo fate? Do I live with this audio thing or should I pursue getting Box #6?


Are you using HDMI? I've had problems in the past with HDMI handshaking. Or it could be your cable provider! I get audio dropouts also on Comcast. But these are short-lived--a couple of seconds, usually.


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> So far Box #5 is ok except that the %@!* audio drops out every now and then just like boxes 1-4. Today it recorded a 1 hour show--the first half had completely no audio and the 2nd half was fine. WTH? So my question:
> 
> Is this my TiVo fate? Do I live with this audio thing or should I pursue getting Box #6?


What pspens says; if you are using hdmi try using the optical output.


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## Wendy in NY

Teeps said:


> What pspens says; if you are using hdmi try using the optical output.


Thanks for the advice but dammit, when I had the plain old Premier XL, I had no such problems. Today I had to turn everything on and off 4x to get the sound to come on. Unpausing, fast forwarding, coming in/out of the TiVo menu or simply switching channels is always a gamble when it comes to audio. Sometimes I'm doing neither of the above and the sound just drops out and I have to shut everything off and start again. As I mentioned earlier, sometimes programs are recorded without sound.

This is beyond ridiculous of epic proportion. The irony of it is that they won't send me a new box, the ones that show XL4 on the front. They keep sending me refurbished Elites. I'm debating on whether or not I should start pursuing Box #6...


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## WO312

Wendy in NY said:


> Thanks for the advice but dammit, when I had the plain old Premier XL, I had no such problems. Today I had to turn everything on and off 4x to get the sound to come on. Unpausing, fast forwarding, coming in/out of the TiVo menu or simply switching channels is always a gamble when it comes to audio. Sometimes I'm doing neither of the above and the sound just drops out and I have to shut everything off and start again. As I mentioned earlier, sometimes programs are recorded without sound.
> 
> This is beyond ridiculous of epic proportion. The irony of it is that they won't send me a new box, the ones that show XL4 on the front. They keep sending me refurbished Elites. I'm debating on whether or not I should start pursuing Box #6...


If the program itself gets recorded w/o sound, that shouldn't have anything to do with HDMI. The input signal is coming in through the coax.


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## Wendy in NY

WO312 said:


> If the program itself gets recorded w/o sound, that shouldn't have anything to do with HDMI. The input signal is coming in through the coax.


Yeah I thought the same too. I forgot to mention that sometimes the sound comes out "crunchy". Sort of the way your voice sounds when you're karate chopping your neck at the same time that you're speaking. Ay yi yi.


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## Wendy in NY

Ok so TiVo Elite Box #5 has started to spontaneously reboot and the sound drops in and out in 3 second intervals. I called them up early last month and asked, no begged them to PLEASE send me a BRAND NEW box. They said that 2 of the 5 boxes that have already been sent to me were brand new (I couldn't tell since they all suck.) What they instead did was to send me a new power cord. I've had my TiVo plugged into the wall, into a UPS (at their suggestion with box #3) and I just don't know what else to do. Cablevision came out last October to check the signal strength coming into my place and everything was hunky dory. I am so lost.

The only way I can get a new box is if I buy another. WHAT??? As a Cablevision subscriber, I got rid of their box because in 13 years of having their box, I had to have 5 replacements. I've been a TiVo subscriber for a little over 2 years and am now up to box #6. No bueno now that the Walking Dead is due to begin. Since I've been a TiVo customer, I still DON'T KNOW the bliss that is a season pass because I always wind up getting a different box and then have to pay attention to when my shows start up again. This is so very frustrating.

I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and purchase another box solely because I don't want another #$%#@ refurbished box. 

Should I purchase the Roamio? I would have to have Cablevision come out with a new cable card 'cause they told me that everytime I change the TiVo box, it degrades the cable card and so far, that seems to be true.

So what do you guys think? Roamio?

This is utterly ridiculously at this point in time.


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## aaronwt

Get the Roamio. If you've gone through five Elites, there would be no reason to think another one would be any different. Five is a crazy amount to go through.


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## pspens

Wendy in NY said:


> Ok so TiVo Elite Box #5 has started to spontaneously reboot...
> 
> This is utterly ridiculously at this point in time.


What is the difference between an Elite and a Premier? I have a Premier 4 that has been doing ok (only 2 spontaneous reboots in over 6 months). I gambled and purchased the lifetime subscription.


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> Ok so TiVo Elite Box #5 has started to spontaneously reboot and the sound drops in and out in 3 second intervals.


This has probably been mentioned before but:
Has the cable co ever replaced the main cable from the service pole or vault to your home? Coax cables in the home?
Do you have more than one device connected to the cable co's coax?
Do you have the TiVo connected to a functioning UPS (uninterrupted power supply)?

Far as buying a new S5 TiVo goes.
I would only buy one if TiVo will buy back your existing unit and give you a smoking deal on the new one of your choice.

On a tangent: This would make for a great Judge Judy case...


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## Wendy in NY

pspens said:


> What is the difference between an Elite and a Premier? I have a Premier 4 that has been doing ok (only 2 spontaneous reboots in over 6 months). I gambled and purchased the lifetime subscription.


Hiya, my first TiVo box was the Premiere XL with 2 tuners. Never had a problem with that one. I got that in May 2011 and then the Elite was introduced in October of the same year. I got the Elite in October 2011 and have had problems ever since.


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## Wendy in NY

Teeps said:


> This has probably been mentioned before but:
> Has the cable co ever replaced the main cable from the service pole or vault to your home? Coax cables in the home?
> Do you have more than one device connected to the cable co's coax?
> Do you have the TiVo connected to a functioning UPS (uninterrupted power supply)?
> 
> Far as buying a new S5 TiVo goes.
> I would only buy one if TiVo will buy back your existing unit and give you a smoking deal on the new one of your choice.
> 
> On a tangent: This would make for a great Judge Judy case...


Hi Teeps, the coax cables into my home are brand new. They were just run in June 2010. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, I never had a problem with my first Tivo box, the Premiere XL with 2 tuners.

The only thing connected to the coax is the TiVo.

I had Tivo box #4 connected to my UPS and that still rebooted. Then with box #5 I was told to plug it in directly to the wall. Still no dice. Box #5 has been the worse. Aside from it rebooting, the sound consistently drops in and out. Sometimes while I'd be watching a live or recorded program without a problem, there'd be a channel somewhere with completely no sound at all so it became a routine for me to always check all of my fav channels to ensure that the sound was there.

I think I'll go for the Roamio and I hope that can honor something. I have lifetime warranty with box #5 and am hoping that they can at least transfer that to the Roamio.


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## pspens

Wendy in NY said:


> Hi Teeps, the coax cables into my home are brand new. They were just run in June 2010. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, I never had a problem with my first Tivo box, the Premiere XL with 2 tuners.
> 
> I think I'll go for the Roamio and I hope that can honor something. I have lifetime warranty with box #5 and am hoping that they can at least transfer that to the Roamio.


Let us know whether you were able to transfer the lifetime to another box. I'm interested in what conditions they require. I'm worried my box will go belly up after 13 months or so, then I think they won't transfer the subscription to a new box.


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> Hi Teeps, the coax cables into my home are brand new. They were just run in June 2010. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, I never had a problem with my first Tivo box, the Premiere XL with 2 tuners.


3 years ago, is not new to me; there is plenty of time there to have a mouse or other vermin chew a cable.



Wendy in NY said:


> I think I'll go for the Roamio and I hope that can honor something. I have lifetime warranty with box #5 and am hoping that they can at least transfer that to the Roamio.


For all the trouble and inconvenience you have had to endure, TiVo should trade you straight up to the Roamio including a lifetime subscription.
You should grind on TiVo customer relations to do just that... ask to speak to a senior manager or higher.


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## DCIFRTHS

aaronwt said:


> Get the Roamio. If you've gone through five Elites, there would be no reason to think another one would be any different. Five is a crazy amount to go through.





Teeps said:


> For all the trouble and inconvenience you have had to endure, TiVo should trade you straight up to the Roamio including a lifetime subscription.
> You should grind on TiVo customer relations to do just that... ask to speak to a senior manager or higher.


I agree with both of you.


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## Wendy in NY

Well, I chose not to get the Roamio and instead go with box #6 EXCEPT this time they're going to send me a NEW one. Boxes 2-5 were all Elite and I was told by the tech yesterday that those were all refurbished so this time they're sending me a brand new box that reads XL4 on the front. (How I'll be able to tell if that's a refurbished XL4 is beyond me but c'est la vie.)

Ok, so I was on the phone with them for a little over an hour. Most of it was being placed on hold. He had me record 3 shows and then go to the settings for each tuner and read off the signal strength, decibel, and other stats. All were exactly where they should be. Then I was placed on hold as he went through my TiVo rap sheet of issues. All complaints were the same--spontaneous reboot and audio drop off. I asked that if I'm going to get yet another box, then I'd like to get the Roamio but would like to have my lifetime warranty transferred to the Roamio box. I need to have some slack here since I've been having the same problems since 10/2011. Placed on hold again. He then spoke to his supervisor and was told that they prefer I NOT spend more $$ on a Roamio because if the problems are being caused by external issues (listed below), then the Roamio may encounter the same problems. Here's a list of what he thought could be a problem but then ruled them out to be ok:

1 - On the other side of where my TiVo and TV are located is the kitchen. He suggested that perhaps I move the microwave to another location. I told him that my microwave is mounted above the stove and again, this didn't seem to pose a problem with my 1st TiVo Premiere.

2 - I should plug the TiVo into a UPS. I told him that boxes 4-5 were all in the UPS. "Oh" he said. (placed on hold while he chatted with his supervisor)

3 - Change the HDMI cables as that may be the issue to the audio drop and select a different port on the TV to plug the HDMI cable. I told him that as an IT, that's one of the first things I did (we always start easy.)

4 - He remembered talking to a friend who told him that the TV was the culprit for the TiVo rebooting. I reminded him again that I did not have these issues with the Premiere.

5 - Finally, he suggested that I rearrange my living room to have the TiVO on another wall. WHAT??? (This was his suggestion should I encounter the same problems with box #6 which is on the way.)

Well, I'll have to wait and see. He said that since the issues don't happen right away, that the issues seem to start within 3-4 months, that it may be some other type of interefence in my apartment which is why they didn't want me to spend the $$$ on a Roamio.

Getting another Elite, or should I say XL4 now, allows me to transfer my lifetime warranty to the incoming box. I would not be able to transfer my lifetime warranty to a Roamio box. Insane.

Another "minor" issue I brought up is that once the incoming box is in place, I can go to the website and transfer my season passes onto the new box. However, the transfer sometimes doesn't go through and when it does, the majority of the season passes are listed as "corrupt" (regardless if the show is in or off season) so I wind up having to pay attention to when shows come back on. I actually have a spreadsheet that I created because of this.

With box #5, I got into the routine of going though all of my favorite channels to ensure that there was audio because there've been times when I'm watching a program, live or recorded, without a problem and there's a show being recorded on another channel that doesn't have any sound! WTH

I told them that The Walking Dead is coming back on and I really NEED to have peace of mind when shows are being recorded.


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## DaveDFW

Wendy in NY said:


> Boxes 2-5 were all Elite and I was told by the tech yesterday that those were all refurbished so this time they're sending me a brand new box that reads XL4 on the front. (How I'll be able to tell if that's a refurbished XL4 is beyond me but c'est la vie.)


It used to be the case that xxx1 in the second set of numbers in the TSN indicated new, and xx11 indicated refurbished. Is this still true?


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> Well, I'll have to wait and see. He said that since the issues don't happen right away, that the issues seem to start within 3-4 months, that it may be some other type of interefence in my apartment which is why they didn't want me to spend the $$$ on a Roamio.


What part of a straight trade did TiVo not understand?



Wendy in NY said:


> Getting another Elite, or should I say XL4 now, allows me to transfer my lifetime warranty to the incoming box. I would not be able to transfer my lifetime warranty to a Roamio box. Insane.


I'm throwing out the B.S. flag on this one.
TiVo can do what ever they like... 
Transferring a life time subscription (warranty?) is just a few key strokes on their end. It may take a manager or higher to press the keys, but it should be possible.
And, if really not possible. They could comp a life time sub on a new Roamio.

Wendy, you are patient beyond belief....


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## jmbach

Since she works in IT I bet she got it from solving PEBKAC issues ;-D


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## Wendy in NY

Dave - I don't know. We didn't really go into what constitutes a refurbished box. I was eating dinner and watching the Yankee game so I guess I didn't think to ask how I can differentiate that. LOL

Teeps - I agree with you all around. They won't honor a straight swap because "they don't do that". Even the tech told me that I'm very patient. I can assure you that if it happens again with the newbie, all hell will be breaking loose!

JM - Ha! In my neck of the woods we refer to it as PICNIC - Problem In Chair, Not In Computer.


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## CoxInPHX

DaveDFW said:


> It used to be the case that xxx1 in the second set of numbers in the TSN indicated new, and xx11 indicated refurbished. Is this still true?





Wendy in NY said:


> Dave - I don't know. We didn't really go into what constitutes a refurbished box. I was eating dinner and watching the Yankee game so I guess I didn't think to ask how I can differentiate that. LOL


Dave's explanation appears to still be valid, also the printing on the TSN sticker on my refurb unit is much lighter and looks less professional, like it was printed on an inkjet low on ink.

New: 758-xx01-xxxx-xxxx
Refurb: 758-xx11-xxxx-xxxx


----------



## Wendy in NY

CoxInPHX said:


> Dave's explanation appears to still be valid, also the printing on the TSN sticker on my refurb unit is much lighter and looks less professional, like it was printed on an inkjet low on ink.
> 
> New: 758-xx01-xxxx-xxxx
> Refurb: 758-xx11-xxxx-xxxx


Agreed and thanks! I'll keep an eye out on that.

As an experienced box replacee, at the time that they ship the replacement box, you're no longer able to Find Shows, Manage recordings, etc. on your current box because they deactivate the service. This I know. However, when I went to the website to see if my season passes were there, they're gone! WTH Ugh, this is so frustrating. And now, as before, it's the mad dash to see everything that I have recorded in the box before I disconnect it. Unfortunately the shows that I have aren't transferrable to the TiVo desktop software. It's a good thing I'm off tomorrow.

Can someone please tell me what it feels like to have a TiVo box and not have to worry about when your shows come back on???

Wendy <--- Hopeless in NYC


----------



## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> Can someone please tell me what it feels like to have a TiVo box and not have to worry about when your shows come back on???


I can mostly. 
Between the black screen, channel not authorized, channel not available glitches...

I my business it was "The Nut Behind the Wheel" (TNBTW.)


----------



## aaronwt

Wendy in NY said:


> ..................
> 
> Can someone please tell me what it feels like to have a TiVo box and not have to worry about when your shows come back on???
> 
> ................


I guess I really take it for granted. I know that any show scheduled will be there for me to watch. Whether it was with my S3 or S4 boxes. And so far my Roamio Pro has not had any recording issues. Over the last twelve years using TiVos, it has been extremely rare for me to have a show not get recorded or to have any issues with the recording. And it's something I've come to expect from my TiVos.

If I had been having reliability issues during this time I would have gone back to recording HD with HTPCs. I used a couple for five years, between 2001 and 2006, to record and watch most of my HD content. But once the DirecTV HD TIVos came out in 2004, I gradually stopped using them until 2006 when I retired them after getting the Series 3 TiVos.


----------



## Wendy in NY

aaronwt said:


> I guess I really take it for granted. I know that any show scheduled will be there for me to watch. Whether it was with my S3 or S4 boxes. And so far my Roamio Pro has not had any recording issues. Over the last twelve years using TiVos, it has been extremely rare for me to have a show not get recorded or to have any issues with the recording. And it's something I've come to expect from my TiVos.


Aaron - this is the experience that others have had which is what sold me with TiVo and it was my experience when I became a TiVo subscriber in May 2011 with the Premiere XL. Unfortunately, however, my problems began when I then upgraded to the Tivo Elite 5 months later in October 2011. It seems that I wind up getting a refurbished box every other season and box #6 is now on its way. It's a good thing I have a spreadsheet of shows that I watch 'cause otherwise I'd miss out on when they come back on as I've yet to relish a season pass.

The frustrating is that I and they (TiVo techs) don't know what to do. Their latest suggestion is to rearrange my living room. The TiVos have been plugged into the wall, into my UPS, it's got plenty of room around it so air flow is good, I use Monster HDMI cables, I've switched the ports in which it's connected into on the TV--I honestly don't know what's wrong and they suggest that I not get a Roamio because the issue is prob something here and not the box. I hope box #6--supposedly a NEW and not refurbished box--will be the end.


----------



## b_scott

Wendy, you know Tivo.com saves all your season passes, and you can one click transfer all of them to any other box you own, right?


----------



## Wendy in NY

b_scott said:


> Wendy, you know Tivo.com saves all your season passes, and you can one click transfer all of them to any other box you own, right?


Yes. The problem is that as soon as the replacement box ships, they deactivate the service on the current box so when you go to the tivo.com site, you can see the current box (as deactivated) but you can't see your season passes. (You're also unable to do the things you can normally do on the site and through the TiVo menu.) I then have to call TiVo and ask them to reactivate the current box. They reactivate it for $14.95 a month (I think) but I can avoid the charge if I deactivate before 30 days. (I only need the reactivation to transfer my season passes and as soon as I do that, I call them right back to deactivate.) Once they reactivate the current box, I can now see both the replacement and current boxes and am able to transfer from current box to replacement box. Two issues when they do that:

1 - When the current box is reactivated, it brings back season passes that I deleted MONTHS ago or season passes that existed on previous boxes and not the current box. Also, season passes that I've had for months are not listed.

2 - The transfer was successful only one time and that was when I went from the Premiere XL (2 tuners) to my first TiVo Elite box. However, now with every Elite box I've had replaced, #1 happens and then the transfer is not successful. My season passes (regardless if in season or off season) are transferred showing "corrupt". TiVo can't figure out why that happens and so I wind up having to refer to my spreadsheet that I've created of shows that I watch to reset season passes and set alarms to when the off season shows come back. No peace of mind at all.

I only call to reactivate the current box when I have the replacement box in my possession.


----------



## Wendy in NY

I actually received a BRAND NEW XL4. The whole megilla--remote, cables, etc. The TSN is xx01 which is indicative of a brand new box, not refurbished. I actually commemorated the occasion by buying a new Monster HDMI cable.

I'll connect everything on Saturday with new cables, new HDMI, different port onto the TV, etc. 

Do you think I should forgo the slide remote that I've always used with the bluethooth and just go regular remote?

I'm currently on the phone with the TiVo tech because the current box is not listed in my account to be able to reactivate it for me to be able to transfer my season passes. Can anything ever be simple???


----------



## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> I actually commemorated the occasion by buying a new Monster HDMI cable.


Congrats(?) on obtaining a new TiVo.

I don't know how much you paid for a monster cable; but it was likely too much.
There is nothing magic about monster cables, except their marketing, and lightening your pocket book...
A generic HDMI cable for probably 1/5th the price will work just as well.

Here's a place in NY, probably not near you but... check them out.
I can buy a 6' HDMI cable and have it shipped to CA for less than $10.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/HDMI-Cables/ci/8103/N/4288594203


----------



## Wendy in NY

Haha. yeah I know. I actually paid $15 bucks for it at J & R for a 6 footer. Just covering all my bases and I hope that this time no reboots, audio drop offs, etc.!


----------



## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> Haha. yeah I know. I actually paid $15 bucks for it at J & R for a 6 footer. Just covering all my bases and I hope that this time no reboots, audio drop offs, etc.!


That's not a terrible price.
Monster Cable branding IS brilliance in marketing...


----------



## Wendy in NY

Teeps guess what???

So as I mentioned earlier, I have to reactivate the outgoing box in order for me to transfer season passes to the new box and then deactivate it once I'm done. I reactivated on Friday and today (Sunday) I called to deactivate it. The XL4 is in place, the Elite is boxed and ready to be shipped back to TiVo tomorrow.

So you ever have that moment when you call customer service and you just happen to call at the right time and get the best agent EVER? That's what happened to me today.

As a veteran TiVo box replacer, I called to deactivate outgoing box #5. As is customary, the agent asks why the deactivation. I gave him the short version and he became very concerned and placed me on hold to look through my records. To make a long story short, what would normally be a 5 minute call became a 45 minute call. After scouring through my records and going back and forth with his supervisor, they've agreed to send me a Roamio Plus--on the house! But wait! I said that I was actually lookinig to get the Roamio Pro with my Lifetime Service transferred over as well. A little back and forth with his supervisor again and they said YES! 

The customer support agent is Dylan and it's who'll I'll always ask for if ever I need to contact customer (not tech) supoort again. Woohoo!


----------



## DaveDFW

Wendy in NY said:


> After scouring through my records and going back and forth with his supervisor, they've agreed to send me a Roamio Plus--on the house!


That sounds like a very good consolation prize for all your trouble--the Plus is definitely an upgrade. Congratulations!


----------



## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> Teeps guess what???
> 
> So as I mentioned earlier, I have to reactivate the outgoing box in order for me to transfer season passes to the new box and then deactivate it once I'm done. I reactivated on Friday and today (Sunday) I called to deactivate it. The XL4 is in place, the Elite is boxed and ready to be shipped back to TiVo tomorrow.
> 
> So you ever have that moment when you call customer service and you just happen to call at the right time and get the best agent EVER? That's what happened to me today.
> 
> As a veteran TiVo box replacer, I called to deactivate outgoing box #5. As is customary, the agent asks why the deactivation. I gave him the short version and he became very concerned and placed me on hold to look through my records. To make a long story short, what would normally be a 5 minute call became a 45 minute call. After scouring through my records and going back and forth with his supervisor, they've agreed to send me a Roamio Plus--on the house! But wait! I said that I was actually lookinig to get the Roamio Pro with my Lifetime Service transferred over as well. A little back and forth with his supervisor again and they said YES!
> 
> The customer support agent is Dylan and it's who'll I'll always ask for if ever I need to contact customer (not tech) supoort again. Woohoo!


All things come to "she" that waits, is patient, is kind, is persistent...
GOOD ON YOU Wendy!


----------



## Wendy in NY

DaveDFW said:


> That sounds like a very good consolation prize for all your trouble--the Plus is definitely an upgrade. Congratulations!


Thanks but even better is the upgrade from the Plus to the Pro which is what they're sending me!


----------



## aaronwt

Hopefully any issues you had will now be a thing of the past.


----------



## Wendy in NY

aaronwt said:


> Hopefully any issues you had will now be a thing of the past.


Oh man we can only hope! I feel like I need for it to go through a full year without issues.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Awesome news Wendy. Hope the new box works flawlessly. Keep us posted!


----------



## Wendy in NY

DCIFRTHS said:


> Awesome news Wendy. Hope the new box works flawlessly. Keep us posted!


Definitely will do. It arrives today and I'll probably hook it up on Saturday since I've got recordings going on today and tomorrow.


----------



## aaronwt

So what happened with the Roamio?


----------



## Wendy in NY

aaronwt said:


> So what happened with the Roamio?


I must say that I am thoroughly THOROUGHLY enjoying the Roamio. For starters, ALL of my season passes from 2 boxes ago transferred over so I was ecstatic when that happened. Second, this box is FAST, especially when going through the menus. There's no delay. So far so good and I hope I haven't jinxed myself! LOL

I like the new font look, it makes it seem cleaner and modern, if that makes any sense.  The remote control is smaller than the standard remote and it's a little bigger than the slide remote. I guess it's "just right". With this remote you can actually use it through walls as long as it's pointing toward the TiVo. It's not a learning remote so you have to manually program it per your TV/Receiver's brand codes which TiVo supplies. The slide remote works but I'm not using it.

Again, I'm very happy with this new box so far.


----------



## b_scott

Wendy in NY said:


> I must say that I am thoroughly THOROUGHLY enjoying the Roamio. For starters, ALL of my season passes from 2 boxes ago transferred over so I was ecstatic when that happened. Second, this box is FAST, especially when going through the menus. There's no delay. So far so good and I hope I haven't jinxed myself! LOL
> 
> I like the new font look, it makes it seem cleaner and modern, if that makes any sense. The remote control is smaller than the standard remote and it's a little bigger than the slide remote. I guess it's "just right". *With this remote you can actually use it through walls as long as it's pointing toward the TiVo*. It's not a learning remote so you have to manually program it per your TV/Receiver's brand codes which TiVo supplies. The slide remote works but I'm not using it.
> 
> Again, I'm very happy with this new box so far.


no, it doesn't matter where you point it. it's RF. hence the "through walls"


----------



## Wendy in NY

My Roamio Pro just spontaneously rebooted. I'm cursed.


----------



## pspens

Wendy in NY said:


> My Roamio Pro just spontaneously rebooted. I'm cursed.


How long have you had it? I've had grey screens about 4 times now in a year.
Cold-booting has solved all of those. I'm using a Premier 4 though.

Ok,looking back I see you've had it about 5 months. What's the difference between the Plus and the Pro?


----------



## Ziggy86

Wendy in NY said:


> My Roamio Pro just spontaneously rebooted. I'm cursed.


Mine rebooted as well and would not stop, I had to unplug it and wait a few minutes then plug it back in, now it is working again.


----------



## Wendy in NY

Ziggy86 said:


> Mine rebooted as well and would not stop, I had to unplug it and wait a few minutes then plug it back in, now it is working again.


Lord help anyone who's near me if this friggin' thing reboots during the recording of The Walking Dead.


----------



## Wendy in NY

pspens said:


> How long have you had it? I've had grey screens about 4 times now in a year.
> Cold-booting has solved all of those. I'm using a Premier 4 though.
> 
> Ok,looking back I see you've had it about 5 months. What's the difference between the Plus and the Pro?


Hiya. I started out with the problem free Premiere XL back in 5/2011. In 10/2011 I upgraded to the Premiere Elite and from then through 6 months ago, I must've had 5 Premiere Elites because it was constantly rebooting, audio drop offs--and everything would always be swell until 5 months later when the problems would start. I've now had the Roamio Pro (which I got gratis since I constantly had issues with the Elites) for 5 months so yeah, it's about that time for the screw-ups to begin. I'm cursed I tell ya.

The Pro vs the Plus: Scroll down to compare: https://www.tivo.com/shop/roamio


----------



## Doit2it

Looks like I've got the bug too. The XL4 I've had since Dec. 2012 has started rebooting randomly 2 to 5 times a day. Occasionally it will boot twice and get hung on the second boot. Totally random, nothing sets it off. I've been in menus, watching a show, even seen it reboot when not using it. I have noticed the MBT is 40C, but the box and very slight breeze from the fan are both cool.

I opened and blew out the case with canned air. Only a light dusting inside, no bunnies. The MBT still climbs to 40C eventually. I also reseated the HD and CC. 

Scanning this thread, some believe a bad CC may be to blame for some reboots. I've had no issues with my CC. Are there any indicators it may be going bad? Any other thoughts or suggestions before I do the Tivo $350 replacement? S&#822;h&#822;o&#822;u&#822;l&#822;d&#822; &#822;I&#822; &#822;t&#822;r&#822;y&#822; &#822;a&#822; &#822;$&#822;5&#822;0&#822; &#822;P&#822;S&#822; &#822;r&#822;e&#822;p&#822;l&#822;a&#822;c&#822;e&#822;m&#822;e&#822;n&#822;t&#822; &#822;1&#822;s&#822;t&#822;?&#822; Weaknees doesn't sell XL4 PS.

Thanks for any info.


----------



## MHunter1

Doit2it said:


> The XL4 I've had since Dec. 2012 has started rebooting randomly 2 to 5 times a day


Both of my Premiere XL4's have been spontaneously rebooting at least twice a day since February 10th, so I'm sure it's related to bad data being delivered to them by TiVo's servers, not hardware failure.

Usually the reboot is followed by the blue LED lighting up, indicating an attempt to upload a podcast to the DVR may have caused the initial crash. The DVR with fewer podcast subscriptions and Season Passes crashes less often.

A similar spate of reboots happened to both of my XL4's about a year ago then corrected itself, so hopefully TiVo's engineers are working on a fix. It's nice having two identical DVRs so I can rule out hardware issues when things like this happen.


----------



## Doit2it

MHunter1 said:


> since February 10th, so I'm sure it's related to bad data being delivered to them by TiVo's servers, not hardware failure.


So would a Kickstart help? KS 51, 52, and 56 are software installs. Of course software isn't the same as guide data. I did try a KS57 which completed and I still have the issue.


----------



## Nargg

For the past couple of weeks my 2 year old XL4 unit has all of a sudden has this reboot issue. So do we wait for TiVo to fix it? Or try a dropkick or something?


----------



## wtherrell

Suddenly mine started doing the same thing. Glad to know mine isn't the only one. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## jjd416

I am having the same problem too. Mine started rebooting every few days a couple of weeks ago. Never experienced this problem before. I know it is rebooting because I have to go through the steps to have the clock displayed again. It's happening when I'm not watching it and other times when I am. Mine is a Premiere XL. My other Premiere doesn't have the same problem.

It's VERY annoying!!!


----------



## CoxInPHX

The last 10 days or so, all my Tivos have been randomly rebooting at different times and frequency. I have tried to study the logs after it has happened, but have not been able to determine why.

Roamio Pro - once every 1 - 2 days
Elite/XL4 - once to 3x's per day
Premiere - every 2 - 3 days (Premiere has a brand new 2TB HDD)

Something odd is happening.


----------



## b_scott

sounds like you're having brownouts. are any of them on battery backups?


----------



## wtherrell

b_scott said:


> sounds like you're having brownouts. are any of them on battery backups?


Mine are on a good UPS. Besides, nothing else in the house is affected.


----------



## shippy

I've also been having this issue on my XL4 for 1-2 weeks. I can tell because my shows list goes back to sort by date rather than name. I haven't lost anything yet that I can tell and it hasn't happened while watching something, but it's very concerning as my TiVo is normally quite reliable.


----------



## pninen

A couple of weeks ago my Premier XL4 started randomly rebooting. Happens a couple of times per evening. (Might do it in the day too for all I know.)

I thought it was likely a failing box, but I see lots of other people are having the same problem.

For me it seems to occur often just as I click one of the buttons on the remote, such as the right or left arrow. Other times it just reboots in the middle of a show when no buttons have been clicked.


----------



## jwbelcher

CoxInPHX said:


> The last 10 days or so, all my Tivos have been randomly rebooting at different times and frequency. I have tried to study the logs after it has happened, but have not been able to determine why.
> 
> Roamio Pro - once every 1 - 2 days
> Elite/XL4 - once to 3x's per day
> Premiere - every 2 - 3 days (Premiere has a brand new 2TB HDD)
> 
> Something odd is happening.


My roamio started rebooting around the same timeframe - with about the same frequency. I emailed Margret a week ago about it. She offered to have them look at the logs, but still waiting to hear back. I think it's service connections as someone earlier speculated.


----------



## CoxInPHX

jwbelcher said:


> My roamio started rebooting around the same timeframe - with about the same frequency. I emailed Margret a week ago about it. She offered to have them look at the logs, but still waiting to hear back. I think it's service connections as someone earlier speculated.


I also emailed Margret today with my Elite/XL4 TSN and asked her to take a look at the logs. I hope she responds and looks into it.


----------



## CrispyCritter

jwbelcher said:


> My roamio started rebooting around the same timeframe - with about the same frequency. I emailed Margret a week ago about it. She offered to have them look at the logs, but still waiting to hear back. I think it's service connections as someone earlier speculated.


It has happened in the past, but normally there is more of a geographic flavor to the reboots - there is messed up guide data for particular areas of the country that cause problems. I'm not sure I see that here, though most of the reports have been in the western third of the country.

When exactly did it start? Could it be when guide data for the daylight savings time switchover first appeared? (It sounds like a bit before, but perhaps some of the early reports could have been actual hardware disk problems.)


----------



## CoxInPHX

I see my Roamio Pro rebooted this morning again at 3:12am MST, according to the CC boot time and OOB start time. (Arizona does not observe DST so that should not be the issue with guide data here.)

It appears it uploaded the logs immediately after, as the logs all start again at 3:40am
Last Service Connection was 3:38 AM MST
Last VCM Connection was 3:40 AM MST

I again emailed this info to Margret.


----------



## CrispyCritter

CoxInPHX said:


> I see my Roamio Pro rebooted this morning again at 3:12am MST, according to the CC boot time and OOB start time. (Arizona does not observe DST so that should not be the issue with guide data here.)


For the DST, what I'm thinking is more along the lines of some misguided shows may have changed the time of their scheduled shows (not realizing that the times are probably already in universal time in their schedule) and the TiVo is seeing conflicts as those mistakes work through the system and are corrected,and the TiVo is responding poorly. Since so few people are seeing the reboots, I would think the problem is probably bad data running into a TiVo bug handling it.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> The last 10 days or so, all my Tivos have been randomly rebooting at different times and frequency. I have tried to study the logs after it has happened, but have not been able to determine why.
> 
> Roamio Pro - once every 1 - 2 days
> Elite/XL4 - once to 3x's per day
> Premiere - every 2 - 3 days (Premiere has a brand new 2TB HDD)
> 
> Something odd is happening.


Add me to this list.

I'm only running Roamios. But, for about two weeks, daily reboots at random times, sometimes more than once a day, happening when they are recording, not recording - but in use for Live TV, as well as one that sits in standby 99% of the time (which is the one rebooting the most).

A symptom is that while new recordings occur, the drive usage bar won't advance beyond exactly 50%, which is not right.

I suspected hard drive issues too. I use WD Red NAS 3TB drives in my three base model Roamios. I ran all the WD Diags before using the drives. I can't get the drives to show ANY SMART value degradation, when tested on a PC and the tests complete in a shorter time than estimated.

When tested in Roamio, the extended tests built into KS54 (IR mode remote, or RF/IR remote set to IR-only mode required to get kickstart menus on Roamios), estimate the test should take ~480 minutes, I aborted after 2500 minutes had passed. The SMART values still are perfect. I am now running the Roamio SMART off-line data gathering test, estimated at ~716 minutes to finish, and have passed the 1540 minute mark (right now). All the SMART short tests in KS54, in Roamios, complete quickly, and pass.

When I had Premieres, that came stock with 320GB drives, which I had upgraded to 2TB drives, the same long SMART tests finished either in less time than the estimate, or within ~10% beyond the estimated times.

I'll be moving along to trying any other kickstart tests that still are available on Roamios (although, as with the upgraded Premieres, the only HDD tests that larger drives would do were the SMART ones, and not the TiVo-specific ones, which cease to work without a stock drive).

The last thing I will try after all else is running SpinRite to try and get a better verification on whether or not there is anything, at all, wrong with the drives.

I'm beginning to think that it's a TiVo problem, perhaps related to hardware, or the wall-wart power supplies (mine run very hot to the touch). The drives are running very cool, and the MBT is below 50 degrees on all units (although, the tiny fans are spinning like jet turbines, and making noise like min-jet turbines).

That's all I can report at this time. I'll check back in later to update what I find, and/or don't find, and compare notes with anybody else having issues like recently reported (spontaneous reboots beginning ~2 weeks ago).

Yes, I realize this is a Premiere thread/area. I thought sharing that I'm having similar issues with my Roamios may be helpful.

Yes, all my TiVos are on UPS battery backup, with a full 120-125V of power.


----------



## jwbelcher

CoxInPHX said:


> I see my Roamio Pro rebooted this morning again at 3:12am MST, according to the CC boot time and OOB start time. (Arizona does not observe DST so that should not be the issue with guide data here.)
> 
> It appears it uploaded the logs immediately after, as the logs all start again at 3:40am
> Last Service Connection was 3:38 AM MST
> Last VCM Connection was 3:40 AM MST
> 
> I again emailed this info to Margret.


I've notice a service connect after several of my reboots. I wonder if its standard protocol after an unexpected restarted.

Btw, are you pulling the drive to see the logs? I'm reluctant to open the unit up.


----------



## nooneuknow

jwbelcher said:


> I've notice a service connect after several of my reboots. I wonder if its standard protocol after an unexpected restarted.
> 
> Btw, are you pulling the drive to see the logs? I'm reluctant to open the unit up.


While your post isn't in response to mine (directly), I have the answer you seem to be looking for.

The TiVo logs (most of them) can be viewed with a TiVo backdoor, which involves going to System Information then:

Press: Clear, Clear, Enter, Enter, 0.

That gets you into the TiVo backdoor area. The title of screen is "Backdoors Information", and getting to the logs in pretty obvious once you are in. The navigation is explained by the backdoor. But, it's a bit hard to go back a log, since left/back takes you out of the logs, rather than advancing to the next log, like the right directional press will do.

If your system won't allow you in, just reboot first, then go in.

To make life easier, you can make markers in your logs with date/time stamps, by going to Live TV, then pressing 9,1,1,Clear (hit clear before a channel change can happen).

You can initiate/dump extra A/V logging data (and date/time stamps) in the logs by pressing 7,7,7,Clear in Live TV (again, pressing clear before the channel can change).

The logs can also be viewed with a disk editor/hex editor with the TiVo drive connected to a computer. You will find them in the var partition, and will see more than the backdoor allows (my preferred method, when puling the drive suites me).


----------



## jwbelcher

Thanks nooneuknow. This is exactly what I was hoping for. 

I've replaced my S3 several times due to drive failures, but probably not worth pulling the Roamio's yet since others seem to have the same problem going on. I am curious though if the same errors appear in S5 logs for drive failures. With this backdoor, I can at least investigate without potentially voiding my extended warranty.


----------



## shippy

Thanks for the logging tips, nooneuknow. I did this and I was able to gather (before syslog restarted and deleted my logs) that my reboots appear to be an out of memory condition.

Here's some info I gathered from tverr:

463562/14 TmkMempool mypool tried to allocate a bunch of bytes and it failed

137461/14 TmkAssertionFailure[26569]: {20359763} : (OutOfMemoryCrash, line 147 ())

Then it dumps a bunch of /proc info and tells me to look at the kernel log for a backtrace. Unfortunately syslogd had restarted and wiped the logs by then.

Not sure where to take this info, but maybe someone else seeing the reboots can see if we're having the same issue? My TiVo is only 43% full and less than a year old. Only started having problems in the last couple weeks. It's an XL4 with lifetime service. My Mini doesn't seem to be having issues from what I can tell.


----------



## CoxInPHX

I too saw the out of memory condition. OutOfMemoryCrash in the logs.

But I also saw way too much other info, that could be a potential cause for a restart.

I wish we could access the logs in a browser with a URL and the IP address, so we could copy them down and compare.


----------



## nooneuknow

CoxInPHX said:


> I too saw the out of memory condition. OutOfMemoryCrash in the logs.
> 
> But I also saw way too much other info, that could be a potential cause for a restart.
> 
> I wish we could access the logs in a browser with a URL and the IP address, so we could copy them down and compare.


If anybody tries running the long SMART tests on an upgraded drive (in a base Roamio), and runs into the elapsed time being several days past the "guesstimated time" the TiVo states, with no end in sight (I'm at 2876 minutes elapsed time on my second attempt), while aborting and checking the SMART attributes shows a perfectly healthy drive, please let me know.

Has anybody ever confirmed that these (in the TiVo) tests work on a Roamio upgrade drive (actually complete)?

As far as being able to copy and share the logs, that can be done with the drive outside the TiVo, and connected to a PC, using a disk/hex editor.

I fear this may be the same (or similar to) scenario I have seen happen on TiVo HDs, Premieres, and now (possibly) Roamios, where if you hit a certain number of total recordings, it seems that the TiVo isn't able to cope, and will start rebooting, just like described, until you offload and delete the folder, or just delete it, without offloading first.

I have a few shows that I set to record everything, and record in SD, which have always caused issues like this when the number of recordings exceeded 300 for a folder. A reboot would sometimes prune the number back down to 300 (from a number like 367). Then I would not see a reboot again, until that folder ticked back up to some other random >300 number of recordings. If a reboot alone wouldn't prune folders down to 300 recordings, a KS52 always would, every time, on before-Roamio platforms.

I have only had my Roamios long enough to get to this point. I had a blind faith that the better hardware in the platform would be able to cope.

This is a nightmare issue, for me, because I'm running on upgraded drives. TiVo has turned me away for support in the past for running upgraded drives (they figured it out, I never tell them). I also couldn't achieve the archives of recordings I do now, on stock drives, of TiVos past...

There is one TiVo in the house (a base Roamio) that isn't doing this... It is a unit that my family, but not me, uses, and they never have more than a total of 50 programs, in all, and often there are more like a total of a dozen, or less. They never save anything, or try to record and archive years worth of a program like I do. I've often wondered why I upgraded that one to 3TB, since they never need more than 500GB, then realize it gives me the ability to dig shows out of their Deleted folder, in the event that I have bad recording, missed recording, or forgot to set up a new season pass for a new program, etc... The point (in this paragraph), is that this not-rebooting unit never has recordings on it for long, and nobody stockpiles episodes of anything to watch later (or just to have in case they want to watch them a year from now)...


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## L David Matheny

nooneuknow said:


> If anybody tries running the long SMART tests on an upgraded drive (in a base Roamio), and runs into the elapsed time being several days past the "guesstimated time" the TiVo states, with no end in sight (I'm at 2876 minutes elapsed time on my second attempt), while aborting and checking the SMART attributes shows a perfectly healthy drive, please let me know.
> 
> Has anybody ever confirmed that these (in the TiVo) tests work on a Roamio upgrade drive (actually complete)?


I guess you mean running the SMART tests via KS54. I've never run KS54 or the SMART tests explicitly. But are the SMART tests similar to the DST (Device Self-Test) that is (I believe) the short test invoked by the WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic program? I've run those tests, short and long. I believe that the long test has occasionally hung but then completed when rerun, so I may have sometimes blamed glitches in the test-bed system. Of course if the test-bed system is the TiVo, that would be less reassuring.



nooneuknow said:


> I fear this may be the same (or similar to) scenario I have seen happen on TiVo HDs, Premieres, and now (possibly) Roamios, where if you hit a certain number of total recordings, it seems that the TiVo isn't able to cope, and will start rebooting, just like described, until you offload and delete the folder, or just delete it, without offloading first.
> 
> I have a few shows that I set to record everything, and record in SD, which have always caused issues like this when the number of recordings exceeded 300 for a folder. A reboot would sometimes prune the number back down to 300 (from a number like 367). Then I would not see a reboot again, until that folder ticked back up to some other random >300 number of recordings. If a reboot alone wouldn't prune folders down to 300 recordings, a KS52 always would, every time, on before-Roamio platforms.
> 
> I have only had my Roamios long enough to get to this point. I had a blind faith that the better hardware in the platform would be able to cope.


Do you really mean KS52? According to WeaKnees, that is an Emergency Software Reinstall. What you describe sounds more like something that would happen as a result of KS58 or KS57 or maybe KS54. In any case, it's a scary possibility that would seem to indicate a blatant bug in TiVo's software. The fact that Roamio hardware is faster or better probably wouldn't help.



nooneuknow said:


> There is one TiVo in the house (a base Roamio) that isn't doing this... It is a unit that my family, but not me, uses, and they never have more than a total of 50 programs, in all, and often there are more like a total of a dozen, or less. They never save anything, or try to record and archive years worth of a program like I do. I've often wondered why I upgraded that one to 3TB, since they never need more than 500GB, then realize it gives me the ability to dig shows out of their Deleted folder, in the event that I have bad recording, missed recording, or forgot to set up a new season pass for a new program, etc... The point (in this paragraph), is that this not-rebooting unit never has recordings on it for long, and nobody stockpiles episodes of anything to watch later (or just to have in case they want to watch them a year from now)...


So it might not matter how many programs accumulate in Recently Deleted, as long as no group folder exceeds ~300 programs? Can I assume that you keep groups (by series name) turned on? Might turning groups off circumvent the problem? I'm sure I've never had 300 shows in a folder for one series anyway.


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## pninen

shippy said:


> Here's some info I gathered from tverr:
> 463562/14 TmkMempool mypool tried to allocate a bunch of bytes and it failed
> 137461/14 TmkAssertionFailure[26569]: {20359763} : (OutOfMemoryCrash,
> 
> Not sure where to take this info,


Did you ever consider opening a support ticket at tivo.com ?

I believe we all need to become more proactive. TiVo's first line support is so bad, we need them to see a volume of similar complaints to make them escalate.

I've been discussing my frequent random reboots with them, and so far all they want to discuss is my signal levels and whether I have the TiVo plugged into a good outlet. I get the feeling I'm all alone here. Obviously there are many other people seeing random reboots.


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## CoxInPHX

Margret responded to my email and has turned on additional logging on my TiVos. So hopefully they will find the issue.

My Roamio Pro rebooted again today, Sun, March 9, 2014 @ 1:12 PM - Arizona Time (PDT) - 8:12 PM (UTC)
No one was using the DVR at the time, TV was off.

The Roamio Pro had already uploaded the logs,
Last Service Connection was 1:33 PM - Arizona Time (PST)
Last VCM Connection was 1:37 PM - Arizona Time (PST)


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## mattack

I've had my Premiere 4 reboot I think twice in the past few weeks.. once during Once upon a Time in Wonderland.. Not a HUGE deal, since I haven't watched ANY eps of that show yet.. but it will be a pain when I 'catch up'.

I thought the hard drive might be going bad, then saw mentions of these threads


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## CoxInPHX

CoxInPHX said:


> Margret responded to my email and has turned on additional logging on my TiVos. So hopefully they will find the issue.


Margret responded again and said they have identified the issue in my logs. So anyone else with rebooting issues should contact her, and ask that additional logging be turned on and email her with details and time of every random reboot.


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## Wendy in NY

I started with the 2 tuner Premiere XL back in May 2011. Never had any problems. In October 2011, I upgraded to the 4 tuner Elite. After 5 months of having it, spontaneous reboots started to happen--be it while recording, watching live TV, or while doing nothing since I was at work. That was box #1. I would call to complain and they'd send me another box. This went on with EVERY box and always within 5 months after having it. By the time I got up to box #5, I called it in and I got the Roamio Pro for nothing, a clean swap for my troubles. Yeah well, my Roamio Pro spontaneously rebooted for the first time while I was watching live TV sometime last month. Of course it happened after 5 months of having it. Today, while I was at work, it spontaneously rebooted again at about 3:15ish PM EST. I know this because only one show is recording at that time and I noticed that it was listed 2x in the folder with a chunk missing right at the time it rebooted so I had the first 15 minutes, lost about 8 minutes or so, and then the 2nd listing resumed at about 30 minutes in.

When I was having the problems with the XL boxes ( and I'd get refurbished and brand new boxes), I was told by a tech that maybe I need to rearrange my furniture in my living room. What?


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## Wendy in NY

CoxInPHX said:


> Margret responded again and said they have identified the issue in my logs. So anyone else with rebooting issues should contact her, and ask that additional logging be turned on and email her with details and time of every random reboot.


Cox, how did you contact Margret? Can I have her email address if that's what you used to contact her? Thanks!

Wendy


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## CoxInPHX

margret at tivo dot com
https://twitter.com/tivodesign

I though maybe it was the daylight savings time guide data, as someone else suggested, because I had not had a reboot in 3 days.

But late this afternoon the Roamio Pro rebooted again.


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## Wendy in NY

CoxInPHX said:


> margret at tivo dot com
> https://twitter.com/tivodesign
> 
> I though maybe it was the daylight savings time guide data, as someone else suggested, because I had not had a reboot in 3 days.
> 
> But late this afternoon the Roamio Pro rebooted again.


Thanks Cox! yeah, mine rebooted for the 2nd time today at about 3ish. I think I'm cursed.


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## nooneuknow

Try this for those reboots (at your own risk):

Warning/disclaimer: If you brick the TiVo doing this (endless reboot looping cycle), you will lose everything and have to re-image the hard drive using one of the many fine free tools and images available from the friendly and helpful folks on TCF. I recommend backing up your SP list with KMTTG if you want a fast and easy way to put your SPs and ARWLs back on once you have re-imaged if this unfortunate, but possible, scenario happens to you.

*Before you do any of this, please see this post from TiVoMargret*: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469 (which was posted after I posted my first revision of this guide).

1. Make a list of any scheduled recordings that aren't part of a Season Pass or ARWL - You will need to re-schedule/add them back later.

2. Make sure you have AT LEAST 4 hours before anything is going to record (that you care if it does).

3. Reboot with the option to "Clear Program Information & To Do List".

4. Unplug the network cable (unplugging the coax-in, as well, can't hurt either - especially if you are using MoCA)

5. Babysit while it does the clearing.

6. Upon completing it will reboot.

7a. (On pre-Roamio models only) Try a KS52, for a lesser risk of a reboot loop situation. Even though this is called an "Emergency Software Reinstall", and does re-install the current software to the alternate partitions, this option is designed to detect if a KS57 or KS58 routine should be run on the next pass/boot, and schedules them, if needed (when it detects issues). Some of the reason why a TiVo sometimes seems faster after a software update, is due to the routines, integrity checks, and cleanup processes invoked, to help insure software updates complete without issue.

7b. (On Roamio models, which no longer support KS52) Initiate a KS57 & KS58 back to back.

7c. Added note for 7a and 7b: Quite some time ago, TiVo made the decision to not automatically perform basic drive data integrity checks (before the Roamio was even on the radar), and chose instead to only do basic checks after every XX reboots - I forgot how many it takes. This was done to speed up the boot/reboot time.

8. Let it boot up, then reconnect the coax and networking cable.

9. Connect to the TiVo service (and expect no recordings until connection has completed and all data loaded).

10. Add back in the items from the list in step 1.

11. Give it a few days and report back on what happens.

Please don't send me death threats or cuss me out if your TiVo bricks itself (cycling between GSOD and Welcome-Starting Up). This is always a risk when using KS commands.

Note: You can always leave out the KS commands and see if just purging and reloading the guide data helps. SPs repopulate, so they will re-schedule any SP & ARWL associated recordings, once the guide data has downloaded, loaded, and been fully processed.

Good Luck!


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## slowbiscuit

Mine did a reboot last night for the first time I can remember. If it starts happening again I will certainly try a clear program and todo after an SP backup to see if it works. Not going anywhere near the kickstarts on a 2TB disk unless I suspect other disk problems though.


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## chiguy50

slowbiscuit said:


> Mine did a reboot last night for the first time I can remember. If it starts happening again I will certainly try a clear program and todo after an SP backup to see if it works. Not going anywhere near the kickstarts on a 2TB disk unless I suspect other disk problems though.


I hope I am not jinxing anything, but FWIW I have had zero reboots on either my Premiere Elite or 2-tuner Premiere in recent memory, although there have been occasional spontaneous reboots in the past.

Given the recent wide-spread occurrence and frequency of these reported reboots, I assume it is a systemic TiVo glitch (possibly firmware-related) and not due to an individual DVR's defective operation. But there could be some factors specific to the individual set-up or usage that is contributing to the rebooting. I hope that TiVo addresses the issue and provides not just a resolution but feedback on the cause.


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## Teeps

Wendy in NY said:


> When I was having the problems with the XL boxes ( and I'd get refurbished and brand new boxes), I was told by a tech that maybe I need to rearrange my furniture in my living room. What?


I'm guessing they were concerned about air flow or lack thereof; TiVo gets too hot.


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## chiguy50

chiguy50 said:


> I hope I am not jinxing anything, but FWIW I have had zero reboots on either my Premiere Elite or 2-tuner Premiere in recent memory, although there have been occasional spontaneous reboots in the past.
> 
> Given the recent wide-spread occurrence and frequency of these reported reboots, I assume it is a systemic TiVo glitch (possibly firmware-related) and not due to an individual DVR's defective operation. But there could be some factors specific to the individual set-up or usage that is contributing to the rebooting. *I hope that TiVo addresses the issue and provides not just a resolution but feedback on the cause.*


Ahhh, ask and ye shall receive! 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469



TiVoMargret said:


> We found an interaction between the box and the service that was causing some random reboots. We made a change to the service last night that should resolve the problem. Please make a connection to the TiVo Service.
> 
> If you experience more than one reboot after making the connection to the TiVo Service, please email me your TSN with the subject "Random Reboots". ([email protected])
> 
> I am very sorry for the trouble!
> --Margret


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## nooneuknow

Recent random reboot problem (multiple platforms) - TiVoMargret responds!



NotVeryWitty said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469



TiVoMargret said:


> We found an interaction between the box and the service that was causing some random reboots. We made a change to the service last night that should resolve the problem. Please make a connection to the TiVo Service.
> 
> If you experience more than one reboot after making the connection to the TiVo Service, please email me your TSN with the subject "Random Reboots". ([email protected])
> 
> I am very sorry for the trouble!
> --Margret


Great to hear!

However, if this "service interaction issue" causing the reboots caused any corruption of the databases/structures as a result of the primary cause, my advice in this post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10038994#post10038994 may clean up any lingering issues.

If us TiVo users didn't have TiVoMargret, this issue would likely be repeatedly denied by the TiVo CS Reps, as even existing, go on for months, and we'd all be stuck doing the CSR scripted support dance, which usually includes finding any way to blame the problem on anything except TiVo (the product and/or the company).


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## akalion

And I was just thinking how my Elite has not rebooted in the past several days. Previous to this, it was rebooting once or twice a day which started a month or so back! Knew it was not the hardware! Glad to see they worked it out!


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## nooneuknow

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=517829

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=517733

Any Premiere owners wondering what's going on? Or, have the Premieres been spared this time?


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## b_scott

my Tivo Premiere XL randomly rebooted in the middle of HBO's Real Time on Friday night.


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## b_scott

just went back to the menu from Netflix and the damn thing rebooted again. Just lost half of The Daily Show and Louie. WTF.


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## b_scott

My XL Premiere just rebooted for no reason in the middle of prime time. My other Premiere has been freezing. Seriously? Is the lifetime of these units only 4 years now?


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## Toni

b_scott said:


> My XL Premiere just rebooted for no reason in the middle of prime time. My other Premiere has been freezing. Seriously? Is the lifetime of these units only 4 years now?


There was a big outage on TiVo's end tonight. There have been a couple of big threads about it on the Romio forum and here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=519378

It's supposed to be working again. The fix was to pull the internet connection until they fixed whatever bad code was being sent out to the boxes.


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## b_scott

Thanks!

I don't understand why the box needs to freeze and reboot if the connection is lost.


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## Toni

I don't think that's what was happening. When the boxes were connected to the TiVo server, they were getting bad code causing them to reboot. Disconnecting the internet connection stopped them from getting that bad code, thus stopping the reboots, until TiVo fixed the problem on their end.


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## b_scott

Just happened again tonight.


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