# Emergency alert message



## brian1269 (Jul 24, 2003)

OK for the first time ever I got an "Emergency alert message" on my Series 3 tonight. In fact, I got about eight of them. They kept interrupting the recorded program I was watching and you can't do anything for a minute or two until it's over.

I am all for having important emergency alerts pop up, but eight within an hour or so is overkill. OK, there is bad weather, I saw it the first time, and the second, and the third, etc.


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## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

I hope you realize that each one had a different alert area listed. I have family down in MS and was quite worried as the tornado they were tracking went between Tupelo and Columbus where most of my family lives so I was keeping tabs on the alerts. They were issuing a new alert every few minutes as the 60 mph tornado made it's way across the state. It, in fact, touched down 5 miles south of my mother-in-law. You would think in the day and age were we can track these things this closely that people would be grateful to get alerted to imminent danger. I guess some people would rather drink their kool-aid and watch TV.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Unfortunately if you are watching Netflix, you are bounced completely out to live TV and, after being forced to watch the message for 2 minutes, have to drill back through the menus to resume what you were watching. The whole thing is too much big brother for me. I think a notice that an alert has been posted is fine but with the option to skip it at your discretion.


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## brian1269 (Jul 24, 2003)

jtreid said:


> I hope you realize that each one had a different alert area listed. I have family down in MS and was quite worried as the tornado they were tracking went between Tupelo and Columbus where most of my family lives so I was keeping tabs on the alerts. They were issuing a new alert every few minutes as the 60 mph tornado made it's way across the state. It, in fact, touched down 5 miles south of my mother-in-law. You would think in the day and age were we can track these things this closely that people would be grateful to get alerted to imminent danger. I guess some people would rather drink their kool-aid and watch TV.


Yeah, you missed the point entirely. Good job. I said I am glad I get the alert, but not repetitive ones every five minutes (they said the same thing, same areas) and not so intrusive. It also kicks you back to live TV and won't let you dismiss it until it is over. It takes over your entire machine. Quite a bit more than just an alert giving you information that you can review and then clear.


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## qwerk (Feb 13, 2006)

What you saw came from the cable company.. NOT tivo...


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## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

brian1269 said:


> Yeah, you missed the point entirely. Good job. I said I am glad I get the alert, but not repetitive ones every five minutes (they said the same thing, same areas)


So you were so annoyed by these repeated alerts that you attentively listened to each one? Like I said they were doing new alerts about every three minutes on the storm that killed more than 300 people across the South and each time they added another area and/or removed one as the tornado swept across the state. Call your local rep and complain, but Tivo is doing what the FCC requires.



qwerk said:


> What you saw came from the cable company.. NOT tivo...


Actually in came from the national weather service. The cable company just passes it through; doing what the FCC requires of them. So again, if the national weather service deems it necessary to send out these alerts, they are probably serious.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

jtreid said:


> ...but Tivo is doing what the FCC requires.


Actually, the FCC doesn't require Tivo to yank you out of your current context, forget everything about what it was doing, and not give you any way to get back. The only requirement is that you must see and hear the alert, all the rest is thanks to incompetent Tivo software.


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## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

tomhorsley said:


> Actually, the FCC doesn't require Tivo to yank you out of your current context, forget everything about what it was doing, and not give you any way to get back. The only requirement is that you must see and hear the alert, all the rest is thanks to incompetent Tivo software.


Yes, the way Tivo handles it is very poor like many other things. It's a great DVR, but stops short on almost all other features.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

tomhorsley said:


> Actually, the FCC doesn't require Tivo to yank you out of your current context, forget everything about what it was doing, and not give you any way to get back. The only requirement is that you must see and hear the alert, all the rest is thanks to incompetent Tivo software.


Electronic Code of Federal Regulations, Title 47: Telecommunication, Part 11, Section 11.51.5:


> (5) Wireless cable systems and digital cable systems with a requirement to carry the audio and video EAS message on at least one channel and a requirement to provide video interrupt and an audio alert message on all other channels stating which channel is carrying the audio and video EAS message, *may comply by using a means on all programmed channels that automatically tunes the subscriber's set-top box to a pre-designated channel* which carries the required audio and video EAS messages.


Since TiVo is a third party set-top box, it is unknown which cable systems are using the method (I've bolded above) for compliance, and therefore TiVo rightfully and properly programmed their software to account for such systems. There would be much bigger issues with compliance and liability if TiVo had not programmed their software they way they did.


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## DrWho453 (Jul 16, 2005)

Well, I had the same thing happen on my Tivo yesterday, though it only came up about 4 or 5 times since I am in NC and did not get it quite as bad as TN did. It did list a different county or counties as it popped up. My problem with it is that there is no way to dismiss it. I don't mind it coming up, especially if there is a tornado in the area but I wish they would let you dismiss it.

Also, what is this about tuning to another station to get more information? My Tivo has never changed channels on an Emergency alert. Yes, it has dropped out of watching recordings but it never changed channels. I was watching the DIY channel yesterday when the alert came through. Never heard a beep or any other sound just had the alert running across the top of the screen. Later I heard some other tvs in the house give off the emergency tone that the broadcasters send out but nothing from Tivo.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

orangeboy said:


> Since TiVo is a third party set-top box, it is unknown which cable systems are using the method (I've bolded above) for compliance, and therefore TiVo rightfully and properly programmed their software to account for such systems. There would be much bigger issues with compliance and liability if TiVo had not programmed their software they way they did.


Sure, they can do any compliant thing they want to make sure you see the alert as required, but none of that has anything to do with the utter incompetence displayed by failing to save the context they yanked you out of and failing to restore it when the alert is finished.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Whatever happened to TiVo just popping up the message on a "window" (and not cutting out the portion of the program you were recording when the message appeared)? Was that just a test of some sort? (For all I know, it was the cable company that had switched something - my local cable operator switches everybody to a single channel (and then takes its time switching everyone back to what they were watching when the alert is over).)


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I will periodically get an "EAS" test which sometimes, although not always, locks up my S3 box. Have to unplug then plug it back in to re-boot...


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

I didn't mind the alerts so much, I know they're necessary, but I was at a friend's house at the time watching his TWC box (instead of at home with my Tivo and OTA) and they were scrolling it every few minutes near the top of the screen. I've only seen them before at the bottom, so you could still watch your show. It's kind of like subtitles, you can still read and watch (or ignore and watch). But this was absurd, trying to watch a movie with an almost constant scroll literally right across the faces of the actors. We finally gave up and got drunk instead.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

qwerk said:


> What you saw came from the cable company.. NOT tivo...


I don't know who does it, but it drives me crazy!! As the OP stated, the entire DVR becomes unusable for a couple of minutes. And it is LOUD!!

Here in Arkansas, we've had so many lately that I've began immediately hitting the mute button as soon as it starts because it's so stinkin' LOUD!

I realize the warning are important, but there has to be a better way. What about a scroll saying "There is emergency in your area, please tune to channel whatever". Then give me the choice to switch channels or not.

I live on a mountain. The twenty bajillion flood warnings we've had the past few days do not affect me. But each time one is issued, my TiVo is taken over.


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## rablake (Mar 31, 2005)

My S2 TIVO hooked to Comcast also locks up leaving EAS on the display and the next season pass records the wrong channel. Need a solution.


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## TooMuchTime (Jun 29, 2008)

The worst part about these emergency notices is that if you are recording something, they get recorded, too. Most of my recording actually takes place when I'm not watching the TV. So if it's an Amber Alert, I may not see it for days. Why should they record? I don't mind them popping up when the TV is on because the entire intent is to inform you of danger or request your help. Great! But why record them? Most weather notices have an expiration date: "For the next 24-36 hours, there is a flash flood warning..." But if I don't watch that recorded program until 5 days later, what's the point?

I just think there should be a way to pass the notice directly to the TV without recording it.

My 25 cents...


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

TooMuchTime said:


> The worst part about these emergency notices is that if you are recording something, they get recorded, too.


I think there are somewhere close to a million different ways the alerts work. Where I am (comcast in Delray/Boca Florida), the alerts don't get recorded, but they do yank you out of a recording you are watching and then you have to go back to the beginning of the recording and fast forward to get back where you left off.

I want a separate box that plays the alerts and strips them out of the cable signal which it then passes in an alert free form to the tivo. If I happen to pile a bunch of soundproofing material on top of that box when I'm getting weather updates every ten minutes, then it will just be my hard luck if I miss the update that advises me to go outside rather than stay inside .


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

brian1269 said:


> _I saw it the first time_, and the second, and the third, etc.


_*YOU*_ _saw it the fisrt time _but your neighbore, friend, brother or mother may not have!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Again, put your Tivos into standby when not using them, then (at least according to info others have posted), the alerts won't affect recordings (e.g. the channel won't change).


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## JTYoung1 (Aug 13, 2006)

If you aren't recording while watching your show, disconnect the cable, then you will not get the alerts.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

TooMuchTime said:


> The worst part about these emergency notices is that if you are recording something, they get recorded, too.


I never had this happen - instead, it would simply skip over the portion of the recording where the alert took place.


> Most of my recording actually takes place when I'm not watching the TV. So if it's an Amber Alert, I may not see it for days. Why should they record? I don't mind them popping up when the TV is on because the entire intent is to inform you of danger or request your help. Great! But why record them? Most weather notices have an expiration date: "For the next 24-36 hours, there is a flash flood warning..." But if I don't watch that recorded program until 5 days later, what's the point?


How is TiVo supposed to know in advance how long it will be before you watch a recording?

As for recording Amber alerts, if there's a possibility - however remote - that somebody will see it when watching a recording and end up acting on it, somebody will think that it is worth the inconvenience of having it appear on the recording.

(I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to broadcast an EAS or Amber Alert signal on the "live screen" without it appearing, or interrupting, the recording, but somebody was afraid that people would start watching live show "from the recording" so they wouldn't get the messages, which defeats the purpose of having the messages in the first place.)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

A better system would be to overlay the message on top of whatever is currently playing, regardless of whether the user was watching live or recorded TV. However I'm not sure that's possible with the current EAS system. I think the way it works now is the OOB signal sends a simple signal to the TiVo telling it there is an EAS message playing on channel X, then TiVo drops you to live TV and changes one of the tuners to that channel. For it to be completely unintrusive they'd have to transmit the complete message via the OOB signal, and I'm not sure that's even possible.

Dan


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

JTYoung1 said:


> If you aren't recording while watching your show, disconnect the cable, then you will not get the alerts.


Unless you're watching it "live"....


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Soon there won't be any way to avoid EAS alerts save getting rid of all your technology. The Government just announced that they are mandating that alerts now display on all cell phones starting next year. Users will be able opt out of some, but not all alerts.

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/security/privacy/229403203?cid=RSSfeed_IWK_All


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Yesterday was a first. The message was coming through MULTIPLE times for a freakin' Severe Thunderstorm WATCH.

I can sort of understand for a warning....but a WATCH!?!? What was so annoying is that it would keep kicking me out of my recorded program about every 25-30 minutes for the same watch.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Jstkiddn said:


> Yesterday was a first. The message was coming through MULTIPLE times for a freakin' Severe Thunderstorm WATCH.
> 
> I can sort of understand for a warning....but a WATCH!?!? What was so annoying is that it would keep kicking me out of my recorded program about every 25-30 minutes for the same watch.


If it is anything like here, it isn't the same watch, they have shifted the boundaries 100 feet or so, therefore it is a new watch they need to broadcast to everyone .


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

And today, with a thunderstorm moving into West Palm, I got alerts I have never seen before. Normally, my recorded shows do not have the alert, but this time, the recording had the alert (particularly useless since it is out of date by the time I watch it). Meanwhile, while I was watching the recorded alert, a new alert came in live that looked
and sounded totally different from the recorded one, and, of course, it kicked me out of the recording I was watching, and didn't take me back to it after it was done. Clearly there were two completely different character alerts here. (Maybe the first one was actually broadcast by the TV station over the top of the program I was recording?).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Yeah, the first probably was just over the show.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> Yesterday was a first. The message was coming through MULTIPLE times for a freakin' Severe Thunderstorm WATCH.
> 
> I can sort of understand for a warning....but a WATCH!?!? What was so annoying is that it would keep kicking me out of my recorded program about every 25-30 minutes for the same watch.


Ha....our stupid NBC affiliate, KWQC, was running crawls last night OVER the top of the live shot of the Stanley Cup playoffs, BLOCKING the score/time remaining info, and it was for t-storm watches/warnings 90 miles SOUTH of us (plus superimposing radar at the bottom right of the screen effectively blocking any hockey action in that part of the shot).


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

I thought I understood the emergency alert system on Tivo, but during some recent storms apparently I do not.

I have Comcast and the alert pre-empts whatever program I am watching, as it should. However, after the alert has finished displaying and the "end tones" are transmitted, I was left with a completly blank screen. I also could not get out of it to resume watching a live TV station with up-to-the minute live radar covering my area. I assumed the alert system should default back to normal programming the moment the "end tones" are transmitted.

As it was, the blank screen apparently timed out after about 10 minutes and returned to normal programming. This was particularly troublesome because there were so many alerts being issued nearly back to back. This resulted in nearly a continuous alert OR blank screen for a half hour or 45 minutes rendering my TV useless in monitoring the approaching severe weather.

Isn't the alert supposed to conclude at the transmission of the "end tones" and not just time out? Should I contact Comcast?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Control should be returned when the end signal for the EAS is sent. That comes in the OOB data and should match when the EAS actually ends, but doesn't have to. 

Also I've found the Series 3 models are more lax about returning control, than the Premiere models. The Premiere will return control nearly instantly, while the Series 3 takes about a minute to return control.


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

morac said:


> Control should be returned when the end signal for the EAS is sent. That comes in the OOB data and should match when the EAS actually ends, but doesn't have to.
> 
> Also I've found the Series 3 models are more lax about returning control, than the Premiere models. The Premiere will return control nearly instantly, while the Series 3 takes about a minute to return control.


I assume you are saying the end signal sent when the EAS actualy ends is the audible tones I hear. The OOB end data should coincide with the audible tones???


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

a68oliver said:


> I assume you are saying the end signal sent when the EAS actualy ends is the audible tones I hear. The OOB end data should coincide with the audible tones???


In a perfect world they should match, but like I said, they're completely separate. The audio is part of the message. The OOB end data is not. Technically I don't think there is a OOB "end" data message, there's likely a bit in the normal OOB data that indicates an EAS is in progress which remains set until the EAS ends. The reason I say this is because in the past I've had a stuck EAS, which I didn't realize was an EAS at the time. I thought the TiVo locked up so I pulled the plug and when it booted up I had control for about 10 seconds before it jumped to live tv and "locked down" control.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

morac said:


> Control should be returned when the end signal for the EAS is sent. That comes in the OOB data and should match when the EAS actually ends, but doesn't have to.
> 
> Also I've found the Series 3 models are more lax about returning control, than the Premiere models. The Premiere will return control nearly instantly, while the Series 3 takes about a minute to return control.


Lately, it seems like my Tivo HD gets back to regular programming a lot quicker than it used to. It used to hover on some c-span like channel for a few seconds after the alert ended. Now that c-span like station seems to only flash for just a second or so, then things are right back to normal programming.

So, maybe, the "system" itself has recently become more efficient.


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

What concerns me about my recent experience is that possibly Comcast equipment is not "dropping" the EAS signal or not signalling the end of the EAS. Thereby locking up my receiver.

It is bad enough that my programming is interrupted by alerts for the other side of the state, but locking up my Tivo for an ungodly amount of time simply adds salt to the wound.

I guess I am just not sure where I should direct my anger. If I knew for sure how the system was supposed to work, then I could contact approriate people if necessary.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

This was fun. Recently the message came on as my daughter is watching TV during her birthday party with 8 or so friends. Unfortunately, the channel showing the message was broadcasting one of those Law&Order Sex Crimes Unit shows. The message was on top of a scene where there's a half covered naked girl and the officers are talking about lots of gory details. Yay! Lots of fun with a 6 and 7-year-olds getting to see that. I'm really glad Tivo switched away from SpongeBob to show them that.

I was in the next room and I was wondering why the TV was talking about rape and killing. I came in the room, grabbed the remote, and tried switching the channel or go to the Tivo menu. Nothing worked. 

I can sort of understand Tivo showing you the message. What doesn't make sense is not allowing you to switch away. The viewing area is quite large. Just because something is happening in one corner of the area doesn't mean everyone should be forced to watch the message multiple times.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

We had a thunderstorm last night and the local station deemed it severe enough to require a constant scrawl across the bottom of the show we were watching. The scrawl lasted the entire two hours of the show (except of course during commercials; not important enough to mess with sponsors) and consisted of the actual weather bulletin but also things like "be sure to upload your weather photos to our Storm Tracker Center so you can be a part of the Severe Weather News5 Team". The scrawl ran at the bottom of the screen (below the station 'bug' that included periodic animated advertisements for other shows on the station), they had a box near the top of the screen with additional weather info, and then every so often the show would get interrupted by the actual Emergency Service Bulletins. I appreciate the heads-up, but stations have been going too far.


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## TroyM (Mar 11, 2003)

What bothers me the most is when I'm watching my local news channel and getting actual tornado info/location that could impact my family when the Tivo yanks me out to provide the EAS message. Why pull me away from critical/relevant information to display a general message? 

I know Tivo can't know what show I'm watching and know that my local weather man is more relevant than the EAS. But, it certainly demonstrates the ineffective and agressive nature of the system.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TroyM said:


> What bothers me the most is when I'm watching my local news channel and getting actual tornado info/location that could impact my family when the Tivo yanks me out to provide the EAS message. Why pull me away from critical/relevant information to display a general message?
> 
> I know Tivo can't know what show I'm watching and know that my local weather man is more relevant than the EAS. But, it certainly demonstrates the ineffective and agressive nature of the system.


Blame the nanny state we live in. The Federal Government thinks they know what's best for you and makes laws to that extent. TiVo needs to implement EAS this way to pass CableCARD certification and the certification requires EAS because the Government says so. Disabling EAS is actually against the law.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I think you are jumping to conclusions. Yes, as far as we know, CableCard certification requires this behavior.. but how do you go there to saying the government requires it?

In other words, why couldn't CableCard say that unless you were watching live TV, it didn't take you to the alert? (Do you think the government was involved in getting the "exemption" (my term) for a Tivo in standby?)


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Look up the "Warning Alert and Response Network" (WARN) Act of 2006. Sending alerts is currently voluntary for cable companies, but devices must be capable of receiving and displaying alerts. EAS certified equipment is a requirement to get a FCC license. 

By the way mandated alerts are also soon coming to cell phone via text messaging as part of that act, though at least people can opt of most (but not all) of them.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You didn't answer my question. Why don't Tivos have to do the alerts when in standby?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

mattack said:


> You didn't answer my question. Why don't Tivos have to do the alerts when in standby?


Because they are considered to be "off" (no is one watching).


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