# Bolt - Closed Captions shows in Fast Forward Mode



## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

Not sure if anyone else posted this. On the Bolt, in FF1 speed Closed captions still play, nice. I like it. 
My Roamio Pro does not do this.
Captions play on Quickmode too which I expected.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

gigaguy said:


> Captions play on Quickmode too which I expected.


Can anybody read that fast? I don't think I can.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

gigaguy said:


> Not sure if anyone else posted this. On the Bolt, in FF1 speed Closed captions still play, nice. I like it.
> My Roamio Pro does not do this.
> Captions play on Quickmode too which I expected.


Wait... they brought back captions at FF1X ?!?!? That was one of the coolest features of TiVo before the big software update a couple years ago. And every survey I take, every survey, that's the one thing I mention I miss.

I wondered if captions were gonna work with QuickMode, but thought... nah. This is even better than I could have expected.



waynomo said:


> Can anybody read that fast? I don't think I can.


Absolutely. That's how I watched all the news shows. Plus the occasional slow moving episode of <whatever>.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

That's great news, as I miss that feature from my old TivoHD.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Seems like TiVo missed a marketing opportunity with this hidden feature!


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm wondering if this is something they added back in with the 20.5.4 software. Anyone with a Mini that updated to 20.5.4 already want to test?


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## gigaguy (Aug 30, 2013)

It's useable for some viewing, doesn't work on Roamio.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Why not just use Quick Mode instead? Is 1X FF that much faster? 

I can't read that fast so this wouldn't work for me.


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## slice1900 (Dec 2, 2005)

1xFF is up to 3x speed, but it depends on the MPEG stream. I too missed this when a software update took it away from the Premiere, now I wonder if the fall update (whenever that happens) will restore that.

It is good for something like news or documentaries, though if there's a lot of talking you might need to hit play to return to normal speed occasionally for the text to "catch up".


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

slice1900 said:


> 1xFF is up to 3x speed, but it depends on the MPEG stream.


Though it seems to me that either (1) my cable feed (comcast) has improved, or (2) Tivo made something _slightly_ less annoying in recent years..

I admit I don't use 1FF ALL that often, but I don't see as much "jumping around to different speeds" as I used to. Maybe it still hits some people all the time.

Again, I admit I use 3FF or 30 second skip WAY more often, but do skim through some stuff at 1FF, enough that I _think_ I have really seen a decline in the jumping around in speeds I used to see all the time.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

slice1900 said:


> 1xFF is up to 3x speed, but it depends on the MPEG stream. I too missed this when a software update took it away from the Premiere, now I wonder if the fall update (whenever that happens) will restore that.
> 
> It is good for something like news or documentaries, though if there's a lot of talking you might need to hit play to return to normal speed occasionally for the text to "catch up".


1XFF should still be decoding and playing all the frames, so unless the decoder can't keep up then it should be pretty consistent and should show all the CCs. I assume the hardware in the Bolt is more then capable of keeping up with that.

With the higher FF modes it's likely skipping frames and only decoding P or I frames, so in that case it would miss some of the CCs.


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## slice1900 (Dec 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> 1XFF should still be decoding and playing all the frames, so unless the decoder can't keep up then it should be pretty consistent and should show all the CCs. I assume the hardware in the Bolt is more then capable of keeping up with that.
> 
> With the higher FF modes it's likely skipping frames and only decoding P or I frames, so in that case it would miss some of the CCs.


On my cable provider (Mediacom) I get 3x speed on SD channels like TCM, but it is a mixed bag with HD channels. They seem to average around 2x, though my local PBS station is perhaps 1.1x. Not sure why, but I imagine it has something to do with the MPEG key frame I/P stuff.

There is no 'skipping frames' when it is going 3x, and it doesn't miss any CCs. The problem is (well, was...back when this worked on Tivo) that if there's a lot of dialogue it can get backed up. That's not from dropping frames, it is because it doesn't have time to properly display the CC before the next one comes. Different programs do CC differently - some have the 'scrolling' CCs others have CCs that appear and are shown for a designated amount of time. You could go 3x through something and get backed up and miss something, but if you went through the same section and started at normal speed and went to 3x later you would see the CC that was missed before. It is all always there. The one exception channels that show movies that are sped up - when they do that the CC is garbled even at normal speed. Try turning on CC during a movie on BET sometime and you'll see what I mean (other channels do it too, but BET is a good example because I think they do it every movie)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That's probably just a limitation of the decoder in that box. 1XFF, in pretty much all devices, decodes all the frames in the stream as quickly as possible and then displays them. If the decoder can't decode the frames at 3x then it wont be able to display them at 3x. Resolution, frequency of B frames, bitrate and other encoding parameters can effect how fast a decoder can decode a stream. Your PBS station likely is using some odd encoding params to lower it's bitrate and that's why it's slower.

2XFF and higher use different tricks, which is why they get so wonky from channel to channel. With 2XFF they likely drop all the B frames and decode just the I and P frames as quickly as possible. This is typically faster then decoding all the frames, but can also be tripped up by odd encoding parameters. With 3XFF they likely just show the I frames. Although if the I frames are spaced really far apart they might have to include P frames as well to prevent it from being too jumpy, which is likely why 3XFF is the most erratic.


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## ubergigglefritz (Mar 22, 2015)

This is awesome. My current dvd player shows captions in the first fast forward. Thus, I'm gun shy about replacing it (hoping it lasts forever; though I do kind of want blu-ray at some point I guess). I don't know why this isn't seen more often =( Or at least there be some way for me to find one that does...


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## slice1900 (Dec 2, 2005)

So is this confirmed that this is a feature of the Bolt? If we could see some sort of statement from Tivo that this will stay and isn't a "bug" to be fixed like they apparently treated it previously when a software update broke it a few years ago, the chances of me upgrading to a Bolt have gone up (from zero, but still...)

This was super useful for watching stuff like the evening news, 60 Minutes, Nova, etc. so the possibility of getting it back kind of excites me!

Now I just wish Tivo would join the 21st century and update their software so it is possible to copy all settings (I mean everything, not just season passes but everything from thumb ratings to wish lists and everything in between) from one Tivo to another. That's the main reason I never considered upgrading to Roamio, and still a big reason I might not upgrade to Bolt even if this feature is confirmed.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> So is this confirmed that this is a feature of the Bolt? If we could see some sort of statement from Tivo that this will stay and isn't a "bug" to be fixed like they apparently treated it previously when a software update broke it a few years ago, the chances of me upgrading to a Bolt have gone up (from zero, but still...)


It is odd that they haven't said anything about this. You would think a feature like this would be a plus for sales (however miniscule), and would be listed.

It wasn't a bug that broke it years back. TiVo did a major rewrite of the code, and simply didn't write in any captioning code (other than normal speed). I conversed with Margret directly at the time, and she confirmed they didn't add it back in.

I believe it was my relentless crying about this lost feature *every time I took a survey* that brought it back. Thank you, thank you very much.

Let's hope it stays, and that we hear some official word on it.


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## slice1900 (Dec 2, 2005)

Was there ever any official word from Tivo whether they consider this a supported feature, or could it just disappear in a future change like how it disappeared from the Premiere/Roamio?

Also, has anyone heard anything about whether they will ever support a full copy/migration of all settings from one Tivo to another? That's the main reason I'm still using my dual tuner Premiere and haven't considered upgrading. I would very rarely need two tuners for recording, but having four active tuners would come in handy Saturday afternoons when I'm watching multiple football games. But I don't want it enough to switch if Tivo can't be bothered to make upgrading as easy it has been on every cell phone for the past 5-10 years. It just doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do if they made it a priority over stupid stuff like supporting Youtube.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Was there ever any official word from Tivo whether they consider this a supported feature, or could it just disappear in a future change like how it disappeared from the Premiere/Roamio?
> 
> Also, has anyone heard anything about whether they will ever support a full copy/migration of all settings from one Tivo to another? That's the main reason I'm still using my dual tuner Premiere and haven't considered upgrading. I would very rarely need two tuners for recording, but having four active tuners would come in handy Saturday afternoons when I'm watching multiple football games. But I don't want it enough to switch if Tivo can't be bothered to make upgrading as easy it has been on every cell phone for the past 5-10 years. It just doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do if they made it a priority over stupid stuff like supporting Youtube.


What settings are you talking about? You can migrate OnePass lists from one TiVo to another via TiVo Online. What other settings would you want to copy?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Was there ever any official word from Tivo whether they consider this a supported feature, or could it just disappear in a future change like how it disappeared from the Premiere/Roamio?


I've heard nothing, and haven't seen anything listed that shows this as a feature. But there's no reason to think that they would remove it, since they've gone to the trouble to add it.



slice1900 said:


> Also, has anyone heard anything about whether they will ever support a full copy/migration of all settings from one Tivo to another?
> 
> 
> DevdogAZ said:
> ...


I've been begging for this for years.

There are several settings beyond OPs. Wishlists and all their associated info (ARWL or not, Boolean qualifiers, etc), various settings under the Settings menus (Clip or not, captions, audio settings, etc), even stuff as simple as the order of one's OPs.

I've found transferring OnePasses to be so buggy that I gave up last time and manually recreated them. The transfer missed several, had wrong channel info, missed some of my padding, etc.

There is a need for a TiVo to TiVo transfer function.


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## Skeptik2 (May 26, 2016)

Does anyone here actually have a BOLT in their home to check Closed Captioning in FastForward1 (not QuickMode)? Some posters here say Bolt shows CC at FF1, while two conversations with TIVO support staff say that Bolt only has 1.3x QuickMode. I've checked two Best Buys, and neither have a display model for me to try out. CC showing in FF1 is very important to me, so I need a definitive answer before purchasing a Bolt. Thank you.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Skeptik2 said:


> Does anyone here actually have a BOLT in their home to check Closed Captioning in FastForward1 (not QuickMode)? Some posters here say Bolt shows CC at FF1, while two conversations with TIVO support staff say that Bolt only has 1.3x QuickMode. I've checked two Best Buys, and neither have a display model for me to try out. CC showing in FF1 is very important to me, so I need a definitive answer before purchasing a Bolt. Thank you.


CC does show up on FF1 on the Bolt. QuickMode gives you audio as well. FF1 does not.

The question is if it will disappear again or still work through multiple updates.


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## slice1900 (Dec 2, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> What settings are you talking about? You can migrate OnePass lists from one TiVo to another via TiVo Online. What other settings would you want to copy?


I've heard (and seen confirmed again in this thread) that's buggy and doesn't really work properly. There are wishlists, settings, and thumb ratings. Those who use the Tivo's ability to select shows for them would want the Tivo to remember what it has learned in the past and not have to teach it all over again, right? I have that turned off on my Tivo, but I do use the thumb ratings as an indication of movies I've seen before since a recorded show automatically gets a thumb. If I'm searching through upcoming movies to see what's on I can scan through them pretty quickly based on the ones that are thumbs up (meaning I've already seen them) or thumbs down (already marked that I'm not interested) and only need a closer look at the ones that aren't marked.

Copying settings and content on a cell phone is a lot more complicated than copying what's on a Tivo, so I don't think what I'm asking is unreasonable. Hell, I don't even care if they say I can't copy the actual recordings. I'd keep the old Tivo around long enough to watch them all before I sell it if copying those was a problem. Copying the rest of the stuff should be simple, Tivo just won't devote any resources to this for some reason.

I don't understand why, making it easier for people to upgrade seems like a smart business decision. Being able to copy all that stuff would make being able to back it up possible, which would reduce the inconvenience of having your Tivo (or its hard drive) die on you. If I had all my settings, and a list of the recordings I lost could be automatically added to my wishlist if I wanted, I wouldn't even care that much if it croaked.


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