# Is out of home streaming a scam?



## tamooreindy

Every program in "My Shows" on my Roamio Plus, when I attempt to stream to my iPad it has a message that the copyright holder restricts streaming out of home. I think it's a sales scam. I was looking forward to watching a hockey game this evening. I think I got duped. I just spent $1,000 for Roamio, Mini TV, both with lifetime. I went through every setting I could find to ensure it was setup for out of home streaming. I love my Tivo but I feel this out of home streaming thing is dishonest and I'm disappointed. I honestly don't think it's necessary to make claims for features that are unusable in order to make money. Lack of integrity.


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## Dan203

That's your cable companies fault. Most only protect the Premium channels, but some, like Time Warner and some areas of Cox, protect everything. Except the locals. It's illegal for them to protect the locals, so those should work.


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## slowbiscuit

No, it's equally if not more so Tivo's fault for rolling over and playing dead, especially when in-home streaming is allowed.

At the least this is misleading advertising on Tivo's part, i.e. this page says nothing about the limitation that would be clear to any potential buyer.


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## 9300170

Your survey needs the option: "I haven't used it since I'm an android user."


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## moyekj

slowbiscuit said:


> No, it's equally if not more so Tivo's fault for rolling over and playing dead, especially when in-home streaming is allowed.
> 
> At the least this is misleading advertising on Tivo's part, i.e. this page says nothing about the limitation that would be clear to any potential buyer.


 I agree it's not made clear to potential buyers. If it weren't for this forum I probably wouldn't know about that limitation either. Luckily it doesn't affect me as only premium channels are CCI protected and I don't subscribe to those channels anyway.


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## dianebrat

Dan203 said:


> That's your cable companies fault. Most only protect the Premium channels, but some, like Time Warner and some areas of Cox, protect everything. Except the locals. It's illegal for them to protect the locals, so those should work.


Dan nailed it, this isn't a Tivo problem since for many of us it works fine, the issue is your cable company that is overly aggressive on its protection, for my VZ FiOS install I can stream every channel I receive OOH, that's not a "scam" that's a feature that I appreciate.


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## slowbiscuit

Lucky you, in other words it doesn't affect me so nyah nyah nyah. It is Tivo's problem as much as it is the fascist cableCos.


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## moyekj

While it doesn't affect me I still see a "misleading" element in that TiVo doesn't clearly state that OOH streaming won't work for CCI protected channels on all relevant pages. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing fine print somewhere about that fact, but like the page linked to above doesn't mention is an example of misleading advertising. Another example of that is that H.264 channels don't work at all - but it's hard to find any mention of that in advertising pages either. The best place for such information is these forums.


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## tamooreindy

Dan203 said:


> That's your cable companies fault. Most only protect the Premium channels, but some, like Time Warner and some areas of Cox, protect everything. Except the locals. It's illegal for them to protect the locals, so those should work.


I don't see anything on Tivo's page that says anything about unless you have Time Warner, etc.

http://www.tivo.com/discover/tivo-anywhere

Bottom line is it doesn't work for everyone as it is described on the marketing for the product. Don't get me wrong, I love my new Tivo. I would have purchased without this feature. I'm simply offended that Tivo advertising is misleading by leaving out part of the story. It's called a lie of omission. They didn't disclose the whole story; that it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not a Tivo hater, I'm a Tivo lover. I just think the advertising for this feature is dishonest and deceptive.


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## tamooreindy

9300170 said:


> Your survey needs the option: "I haven't used it since I'm an android user."


Haha, I agree. Sorry I'll try to be more inclusive next time. :up:


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## dianebrat

slowbiscuit said:


> Lucky you, in other words it doesn't affect me so nyah nyah nyah. It is Tivo's problem as much as it is the fascist cableCos.


No, in NO WAY is it a Tivo problem, their network and functionality is fine, it's the CableCO that the issue. I'm not thumbing my nose and saying "neener neener neener mine works" I'm saying the scummy CableCO is the cause of the issue, not Tivo.


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## Dan203

We still don't know if TiVo made the decision to prevent OOH streaming of protected channels to cover their own ass, or if they were actually instructed to do so by Cable Labs. None of this is laid out in the CableCARD rules, and there is no other precedent in the cable market, so they're at the mercy of what Cable Labs will allow. Perhaps this is just temporary until they can get approval from Cable Labs? The point is we really don't know.


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## beobuff

dianebrat said:


> Dan nailed it, this isn't a Tivo problem since for many of us it works fine, the issue is your cable company that is overly aggressive on its protection, for my VZ FiOS install I can stream every channel I receive OOH, that's not a "scam" that's a feature that I appreciate.


+1


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## slowbiscuit

dianebrat said:


> No, in NO WAY is it a Tivo problem, their network and functionality is fine, it's the CableCO that the issue. I'm not thumbing my nose and saying "neener neener neener mine works" I'm saying the scummy CableCO is the cause of the issue, not Tivo.


If Tivo would grow some balls and actually work on behalf of their retail customer instead of just rolling over, it wouldn't have been a problem at all.

But we all know how their bread is buttered, and it's not at retail.


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## jimmypowder

Yeah most content is copyrighted so Tivo streaming is pretty much worthless.I watch a lot of premium movies.

I bought a couple of slingboxes because of all the Tivo Roamio streaming issues and could not be happier. 

Just used them for 2 weeks and rarely did I get any buffering and I can watch anything that I recorded or that's on tv.


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## jimmypowder

slowbiscuit said:


> If Tivo would grow some balls and actually work on behalf of their retail customer instead of just rolling over, it wouldn't have been a problem at all.
> 
> But we all know how their bread is buttered, and it's not at retail.


You are correct,but that would cost Tivo money .


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## Dan203

jimmypowder said:


> Yeah most content is copyrighted so Tivo streaming is pretty much worthless.I watch a lot of premium movies.
> 
> I bought a couple of slingboxes because of all the Tivo Roamio streaming issues and could not be happier.
> 
> Just used them for 2 weeks and rarely did I get any buffering and I can watch anything that I recorded or that's on tv.


I had a Slingbox. It's got it's own set of problems. One is that it's connected to the output of a TiVo so you're tying up that TiVo while you're watching. That can be problematic if the TiVo is shared with other family members. The Stream is completely independent and does not effect the source TiVo. The second is that controls are basically useless. FF/RW is impossible. IR and 30 second skip kind of work, but you may have to adjust the number of times you press them to account for the delay. (i.e. pres IR extra and 30 seconds skip less) The TiVo Stream bases it's seeks on what you're actually seeing on screen so they always land where you want them.

That being said if your shows are all protected then there is really no other option. Although eventually the analog hole is going to close and when it does you're going to be in the same boat no matter which device you use. (a Slingbox connected via HDMI has the same restrictions as a TiVo Stream)


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## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> I had a Slingbox. It's got it's own set of problems. One is that it's connected to the output of a TiVo so you're tying up that TiVo while you're watching. That can be problematic if the TiVo is shared with other family members. The Stream is completely independent and does not effect the source TiVo. The second is that controls are basically useless. FF/RW is impossible. IR and 30 second skip kind of work, but you may have to adjust the number of times you press them to account for the delay. (i.e. pres IR extra and 30 seconds skip less) The TiVo Stream bases it's seeks on what you're actually seeing on screen so they always land where you want them.
> 
> That being said if your shows are all protected then there is really no other option. Although eventually the analog hole is going to close and when it does you're going to be in the same boat no matter which device you use. (a Slingbox connected via HDMI has the same restrictions as a TiVo Stream)


So when is the analog hole closing? What info do you have that says this is gonna happen?


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## jimmypowder

slowbiscuit said:


> If Tivo would grow some balls and actually work on behalf of their retail customer instead of just rolling over, it wouldn't have been a problem at all.
> 
> But we all know how their bread is buttered, and it's not at retail.


Yes grow a set or maybe you don't survive as Apple,Google,etc get the licenses to stream live tv and premium content through their devices with cloud storage to watch tv anywhere you are.

It's coming .3 years or less i'm guessing.

Comcast ,Time Warner and Co. are scared to death of the direction TV will take and of course they will try to price internet only service through the roof with punitive data caps to boot but the writing is on the wall.


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## Dan203

jimmypowder said:


> So when is the analog hole closing? What info do you have that says this is gonna happen?


It's probably years off, but it's going to happen. You can't buy a new TV today that doesn't have at least one HDMI input. So in a few years there will be no need for analog outputs on HD cable boxes. And once that happens the content providers will be in complete control.


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## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> It's probably years off, but it's going to happen. You can't buy a new TV today that doesn't have at least one HDMI input. So in a few years there will be no need for analog outputs on HD cable boxes. And once that happens the content providers will be in complete control.


 I'm fairly confident even then there will at least be a market for HDMI->component converters (even if it's a black market).


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## bootman_head_fi

Get a home router with built in VPN and use that with your tablet/phone. (ASUS)
Problem solved.


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## StevesWeb

Dan203 said:


> It's probably years off, but it's going to happen. You can't buy a new TV today that doesn't have at least one HDMI input. So in a few years there will be no need for analog outputs on HD cable boxes. And once that happens the content providers will be in complete control.


I don't see this affecting OTA reception of ATSC digital broadcasts, but otherwise I'm sure you are spot on as far as cable and satellite providers are concerned.

Where the interests of consumers are pitted against corporations...

The OP has a legitimate gripe, TiVo should provide more information about the limitations of their streaming, but the source of this problem is actually the provider OP is using, smells like Time Warner.


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## Dan203

There are laws that prevent anything broadcast via public airwaves from being protected. There was something called the Broadcast Flag the OTA providers tried to get enforced a few years ago but it was struck down by a federal appeals court. So OTA is likely to always be open even if we transition to HDMI. Cable on the other hand has the ability to protect anything they want. The only content provider that currently requires protection is HBO, but most protect all premium channels, and some protect everything but the locals.

Our only hope is that someone in the canle industry develops their own OOH streaming capabilities that support protected content, so TiVo has precedent. Or that TiVo sacks up and allows it and just hopes they don't get sued.


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## Dan203

moyekj said:


> I'm fairly confident even then there will at least be a market for HDMI->component converters (even if it's a black market).


You're probably right. Someone cracked HDCP a few years ago and there are already black market devices that can strip it, so there will likely always be a way. But average users aren't going to know about that or seek it out.


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## jimmypowder

Tivo should(not sure if it does) put on every Roamio box in bold print that some channels are copyright protected and cannot be streamed.


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## Dan203

jimmypowder said:


> Tivo should(not sure if it does) put on every Roamio box in bold print that some channels are copyright protected and cannot be streamed.


Companies don't typically advertise limitations. At best it will be in some fine print with an asterisk next to it.


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## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> Companies don't typically advertise limitations. At best it will be in some fine print with an asterisk next to it.


Well many people who are not familiar with streaming limitations are gonna be quite disappointed if this info is withheld.

Furthermore,Tivo was marketing the streaming feature pretty hard from what I recall.


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## Dan203

I agree there will be disappointed people. And those people have the option of returning it for a full refund in the first 30 days. No reason for TiVo to put big bold letters on the box explaining what it can't do. That might scare off customers who it would work for but don't understand the terminology.


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## aadam101

jimmypowder said:


> Tivo should(not sure if it does) put on every Roamio box in bold print that some channels are copyright protected and cannot be streamed.


Why? This isn't the case for everyone. If you have issues with copy protection, you should contact the people who are "protecting" the content.

My Tivo also doesn't make my breakfast. I don't expect Tivo to tell me that.


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## jimmypowder

aadam101 said:


> Why? This isn't the case for everyone. If you have issues with copy protection, you should contact the people who are "protecting" the content. My Tivo also doesn't make my breakfast. I don't expect Tivo to tell me that.


 Tivo has some responsibility in making the copy protection on many channels known to prospective buyers . It is a major limitation of their highly marketed streaming feature . Ridiculous analogy about breakfast .

The streaming feature on a Tivo is pretty much worthless except for network channels . That's why someone started a post about it being a scam .


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## jrtroo

You certainly need to be way more specific before complaining about "streaming" you are talking OOH and not in home or from box to box. Its is misleading, which is what you are accusing Tivo of!


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## jimmypowder

jrtroo said:


> You certainly need to be way more specific before complaining about "streaming" you are talking OOH and not in home or from box to box. Its is misleading, which is what you are accusing Tivo of!


 Ok I'll spell it out for you : I'm talkng about OOH streaming . If I had known about all the copy protection on virtually all but network channels I would have bought a Roamio Basic not one with built in Tivo stream . That's about a 100 dollar or so savings. I then went out and bought a Slingbox for 150 bucks and the Apple apps for 30 bucks . I could have saved about almost 300 bucks if I had known the severe limitations of Tivo Ooh streaming .


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## Dan203

How would you have saved $300? You still would have bought the Slingbox and Apple apps if you had the Roamio basic. So the only savings is the difference in price between the TiVos. And you would have had 2 less tuners and 1/2 the hard drive space.


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## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> How would you have saved $300? You still would have bought the Slingbox and Apple apps if you had the Roamio basic. So the only savings is the difference in price between the TiVos. And you would have had 2 less tuners and 1/2 the hard drive space.


 Ok 200 . Don't care about extra tuners and hard drive space . Would have had plenty with the Basic for me .

Enough to buy an extra Roamio Basic!


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## Dan203

I assume you're in a TW area? Maybe when Comcast takes over they will turn off the CCI byte and you'll be able to stream most of your channels.

While I would love it if even protected content could be streamed OOH we don't really know the circumstances under which this decision was made. There are no rules about OOH streaming in the CableCARD mandate, so TiVo is striking out into uncharted areas with this. They may be playing it safe, or they may have asked for permission from CableLabs and got denied. The point is we don't know so accusing them of being "timid" is not really fair as we don't have all the facts.

If a cable company ever starts offering OOH streaming from a DVR then TiVo will have precedent and they'll be able to follow suit.


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## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> I assume you're in a TW area? Maybe when Comcast takes over they will turn off the CCI byte and you'll be able to stream most of your channels.
> 
> While I would love it if even protected content could be streamed OOH we don't really know the circumstances under which this decision was made. There are no rules about OOH streaming in the CableCARD mandate, so TiVo is striking out into uncharted areas with this. They may be playing it safe, or they may have asked for permission from CableLabs and got denied. The point is we don't know so accusing them of being "timid" is not really fair as we don't have all the facts.
> 
> If a cable company ever starts offering OOH streaming from a DVR then TiVo will have precedent and they'll be able to follow suit.


They are timid IMO. How long did it take before you could watch a show you taped on one Tivo that was copy protected on another Tivo .How were you gonna somehow steal something in that scenario?

It took many many years. I can do this now with a Tivo Premier and Roamio,finally.


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## moyekj

jimmypowder said:


> Ok 200 . Don't care about extra tuners and hard drive space . Would have had plenty with the Basic for me .
> 
> Enough to buy an extra Roamio Basic!


 There's a 30 day return policy. If the Roamio you bought didn't meet your expectations then why did you not return it? That's best way to send TiVo a message you are unhappy with advertised vs delivered. If I buy something with the expectation that a specific feature will be available, I make sure I test it out as soon as possible to confirm it meets my expectations.


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## jimmypowder

moyekj said:


> There's a 30 day return policy. If the Roamio you bought didn't meet your expectations then why did you not return it? That's best way to send TiVo a message you are unhappy with advertised vs delivered. If I buy something with the expectation that a specific feature will be available, I make sure I test it out as soon as possible to confirm it meets my expectations.


I would have but did not try the OOH streaming until past the 30 day window.

I didn't get the chance.

I have a home office .Very busy.


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## Dan203

jimmypowder said:


> They are timid IMO. How long did it take before you could watch a show you taped on one Tivo that was copy protected on another Tivo .How were you gonna somehow steal something in that scenario?
> 
> It took many many years. I can do this now with a Tivo Premier and Roamio,finally.


That was a little different. Until the Remiere line the hardware was not actually fast enough to support streaming. With the S3/HD units it took more then realtime to transfer just one recording. Although in that case they might have been waiting for precedent. There were some other DVRs doing multi-room streaming by the time TiVo added it.


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## moyekj

Replay TV units supported multi-room streaming eons ago. They were the 1st to do it and TiVo was very late to the game on that one even if you count MRV instead of MRS. Of course that and other controversial features such as auto commercial skip, out of home sharing, official 30 sec skip support and jump n minutes backwards, forwards or n minutes into a recording got them into trouble and probably part of the reason TiVo has always been ultra conservative and playing nice with CableLabs. It was a fun ride however and I still miss some of the ReplayTV capabilities.


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## Austin Bike

You can't hold Tivo responsible for limitations in streaming, they don't control it. There are plenty of things that can interfere with your ability to stream out of the home. 

All of this anger is misdirected. You have cable companies that are abusing their customers and you want to point the finger at Tivo?

The speedometer in my car goes to 200MPH. I have never gotten it over 110. Does infiniti owe me an apology. Do they need to put something in their ads?


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## jimmypowder

Austin Bike said:


> You can't hold Tivo responsible for limitations in streaming, they don't control it. There are plenty of things that can interfere with your ability to stream out of the home. All of this anger is misdirected. You have cable companies that are abusing their customers and you want to point the finger at Tivo? The speedometer in my car goes to 200MPH. I have never gotten it over 110. Does infiniti owe me an apology. Do they need to put something in their ads?


Well Tivo sure is marketing the streaming feature pretty hard but essentially it only works with network channels . For some, like me. It is worthless as I watch premium content .

For me , the car doesn't work at all .


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## Austin Bike

Again, the issue is not tivo, the issue is your cable company. If your cable company had a downed cable and was not providing a signal to your house, would this also be a Tivo issue?


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## jimmypowder

Austin Bike said:


> Again, the issue is not tivo, the issue is your cable company. If your cable company had a downed cable and was not providing a signal to your house, would this also be a Tivo issue?


Please your analogies are ludicrous


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## Grakthis

jimmypowder said:


> Please your analogies are ludicrous


No, it makes sense to me.


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## Dan203

FYI the only channel that currently requires the CCI byte to be set is HBO. Most cable companies however turn it on for all premium channels. And some, like TW, turn it on for everything because they're dicks and "legally allowed" to do so. It doesn't effect their equipment because they don't offer features like TiVoToGo or OOH streaming where the CCI byte comes into play, so it's sole intention is to limit the functonality of 3rd party devices and make them less appealing.

So the fact that the feature is worthless to you IS your cable companies fault. The fact that you didn't read the fine print and/or test it before the 30 day return period was up is your fault. Your complaint that TiVo should advertise the limitation is absurd. No company in the history of the world has gone out of their way to advertise what their product can't do.


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## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> FYI the only channel that currently requires the CCI byte to be set is HBO. Most cable companies however turn it on for all premium channels. And some, like TW, turn it on for everything because they're dicks and "legally allowed" to do so. It doesn't effect their equipment because they don't offer features like TiVoToGo or OOH streaming where the CCI byte comes into play, so it's sole intention is to limit the functonality of 3rd party devices and make them less appealing.
> 
> So the fact that the feature is worthless to you IS your cable companies fault. The fact that you didn't read the fine print and/or test it before the 30 day return period was up is your fault. Your complaint that TiVo should advertise the limitation is absurd. No company in the history of the world has gone out of their way to advertise what their product can't do.


DOn't leave material facts off the box. Thats how i see it,particularly if your gonna promote this straming feature so heavily.

Watch tv anywhere ,wrong! You Tivo fanboys are unreal.

Never had a chance to check out ooh as I wasnt out of town until past thirty days

What is Tivo doing to influence the cable companies to remove the copy protection? ? You know of anything?

Bottom line is TIvo streaming is garbage . GARBAGE!! Very happy I picked up a Slingbox 350


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## jimmypowder

Grakthis said:


> No, it makes sense to me.


Explain it then .Tell me how it makes sense.


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## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> FYI the only channel that currently requires the CCI byte to be set is HBO. Most cable companies however turn it on for all premium channels. And some, like TW, turn it on for everything because they're dicks and "legally allowed" to do so. It doesn't effect their equipment because they don't offer features like TiVoToGo or OOH streaming where the CCI byte comes into play, so it's sole intention is to limit the functonality of 3rd party devices and make them less appealing.
> 
> So the fact that the feature is worthless to you IS your cable companies fault. The fact that you didn't read the fine print and/or test it before the 30 day return period was up is your fault. Your complaint that TiVo should advertise the limitation is absurd. No company in the history of the world has gone out of their way to advertise what their product can't do.


If Tivo knows companies like TW turn it on on most channels,then don't you think they would be a little careful in touting their great new feature of OOh???

What morons would promote streaming when it doesn't even work for many of their customers bro??Isn't that inviting huge disappointment?

Companies that do that don't survive in the long haul.


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## Dan203

jimmypowder said:


> If Tivo knows companies like TW turn it on on most channels,then don't you think they would be a little careful in touting their great new feature of OOh???
> 
> What morons would promote streaming when it doesn't even work for many of their customers bro??Isn't that inviting huge disappointment?
> 
> Companies that do that don't survive in the long haul.


Don't get me wrong I understand your frustration. I just think it's misplaced. TiVo and Sling are both outsiders in this industry. If it weren't for laws put into place by the FCC we wouldn't be able to buy either one. Cable companies don't want you to buy a TiVo/Slingbox, they want you to rent their equipment and use their apps, with forced commercials. The only reason Slingbox is even capable of functioning is because of the analog hole. If you were to use HDMI instead then it would have the exact same restrictions as the TiVo streaming. And the only reason your cable box still has an analog port on it is because the FCC requires it. And that will be going away eventually. There is a provision in the law that allows cable companies to start turning off analog ports (remotely disabling them) once certain requirements are met. When that happens Slingbox will be just as useless to someone with TWC and the TiVo Streaming.

If you're going to be pissed at someone you should be pissed at TWC. It's their sh*tty policy that makes your TiVo streaming useless. Could TiVo do a better job of explaining the limitations to potential customers? Perhaps. But it's also up to you as the buyer to do your due diligence and make sure it works before the return period is up. (you could have used cell phone tethering, neighbors wifi, work wifi, Starbucks wifi, etc... to test OOH without having to actually go on a trip)

As to other's assertion that TiVo is just timid or spineless and are doing this as a precaution I'd like to see your proof. We don't know why they did this. For all we know they asked for permission from CableLabs and were denied. And even if they are being timid why is that a bad thing? Would you rather they say f*ck it and then get sued out of business like ReplayTV? We're talking about media giants here. Companies with enough money to sue TiVo out of existence if they wanted. To me it's understandable TiVo wants to tread lightly.


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## kherr

.... as some of you say it's Tivos fault for not advertising "dependent on non-copyrighted material" or to that effect. On advertising the wireless features they don't say " dependent on location, type and strength of AP, distance ....." and 50 other things that can kill a wireless signal ...... 

Your reaching ........


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## jimmypowder

kherr said:


> .... as some of you say it's Tivos fault for not advertising "dependent on non-copyrighted material" or to that effect. On advertising the wireless features they don't say " dependent on location, type and strength of AP, distance ....." and 50 other things that can kill a wireless signal ......
> 
> Your reaching ........


Why would Tivo promote the streaming feature KNOWING that TW ,Comcast customers etc are not going to be able to use it on most channels due to cable company restrictions,cable labs ? ,etc.

Promoting a feature that many of your customers can't use or for the most part can't use is a recipe for pissed off customers.

Here's the front page of their website! http://www.tivo.com/discover/tivo-anywhere I wouldn't be so proud.


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## jrtroo

Believe what you will, but TW is the one to be POd at. Just so you know, Comcast is very free with streaming except where they are limited for the movie channels.

Your energy to complain about the marketing of this feature is fantastic. Why don't you use that energy with TW or the FCC so that Tivo can be permitted to provide you with this service? They want you to have it.


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## moyekj

Believe it or not the web sites have improved in that they now make it clear this is iOS only functionality. Used to be very little if any mention of this not working on Android.

I see some places they do mention the limitations, for example as part of the FAQ:
https://www.tivo.com/shop/roamio#tab4


> *Can I download any show or content to a mobile device or will some be copyright protected?*
> 
> You can stream any TiVo recording within the home, including regular and some premium content. Due to FCC copyright regulations, some premium content may be marked as "copy once" and therefore cannot be downloaded to the mobile device. Those shows will be marked with a red slash icon.
> 
> *Can I watch live TV on my mobile device while out of my home?*
> 
> Yes, you can stream to one iOS device out of the home while others are watching TV or streaming to other devices within the home simultaneously. Use the Watch button on the app; it automatically starts a recording and immediately plays it on your mobile device in one step.
> 
> This functionality can be used on any WiFi or MiFi network. Quality may be degraded based on the bandwidth of that connection. You cannot stream shows on a cellular network, but you can download shows over a 4G/LTE network connection (but remember that it will use up your data plan).
> 
> Due to the copy protection assigned by the content provider, not all content can be downloaded to your mobile device for offline viewing, and not all content can be streamed when you are away from your local network.
> 
> *Can I download shows to my mobile device while out of my home?*
> 
> Yes, you can download to one iOS device out of the home even while others are watching TV or streaming to other devices within the home simultaneously. Use the download button on the app; it automatically starts to download the show directly onto your iPad or iPhone. Due to the copy protection assigned by the content provider, not all content can be downloaded to your mobile device for offline viewing. For 4-tuner TiVo Roamio: TiVo Stream accessory required and sold separately.
> 
> This functionality can be used on any WiFi network. Quality may be degraded based on the bandwidth of that WiFi connection. You can also download shows on any 3G or 4G/LTE cellular network. Based on the speed of connection, you may be able to begin watching while the show is downloading. Carrier data limits or additional fees may apply.


So while the information is not provided up front, it is covered in FAQ, so those who really do due diligence would know about the limitations.


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## Grakthis

jimmypowder said:


> Explain it then .Tell me how it makes sense.


TiVo provides functionality that is dependent on the cable company acting in good faith to its customers. If the cable company fails that duty, then it is hardly TiVo's fault that the cable company has cut them off at the knees. Why do we blame TiVo for that?

It's an apt analogy.

I mean, I try my best not to be a TiVo apologist and to blame them where it's due... but in this case, we literally have a cable company that has chosen to side with its content providers OVER its customers. Which is a HUGE sign of a monopolistic interest and a sign that the monopoly is getting too large to regulate and needs to be broken down.


----------



## Dan203

jimmypowder said:


> Why would Tivo promote the streaming feature KNOWING that TW ,Comcast customers etc are not going to be able to use it on most channels due to cable company restrictions,cable labs ? ,etc.


TWC is the ONLY cable company that does this nationwide.* There are a few places where Comcast and COX have the same restrictions, but this is due to a local decision/configuration it's not a company policy. TWC made it nationwide company policy to enable the CCI byte on all channels they are legally allowed to, specifically to limit the appeal of 3rd party devices. If you call them and complain they will simply say that they are doing what the law allows them to do. They don't care about their customers. They know they have a monopoly in most areas. All they care about is $$$ and by limiting the appeal of 3rd party devices they make it so people are more likely to rent equipment from them.

* Brighthouse does this too, but they are a subsidiary of TWC


----------



## dianebrat

Dan203 said:


> TWC is the ONLY cable company that does this nationwide.* There are a few places where Comcast and COX have the same restrictions, but this is due to a local decision/configuration it's not a company policy. TWC made it nationwide company policy to enable the CCI byte on all channels they are legally allowed to, specifically to limit the appeal of 3rd party devices. If you call them and complain they will simply say that they are doing what the law allows them to do. They don't care about their customers. They know they have a monopoly in most areas. All they care about is $$$ and by limiting the appeal of 3rd party devices they make it so people are more likely to rent equipment from them.
> 
> * Brighthouse does this too, but they are a subsidiary of TWC


EXACTLY! and TWC is not a majority of cable subscribers, while it sucks to be a TWC subscriber hit by this, the majority of users out there are not affected by this issue. I'm not saying it's not a real issue, just that it's not a majority of users.


----------



## waynomo

So the TWC/Comcast merger could be a good thing for users that want to stream.


----------



## jrtroo

waynomo said:


> So the TWC/Comcast merger could be a good thing for users that want to stream.


Or bad for those who can stream with Comcast today if the TW policy becomes the Comcast policy.


----------



## lickwid

I know this is not totally related, but there is a program available for Jailbroken iOS devices called Flex 2, which supposedly allows restricted programs to be properly streamed and downloaded. However, I have yet to get it to work. But Flex 2 allows for enough flexibility to possibly get around that restriction.

Delete if this discussion is not allowed.


----------



## Dan203

If that is possible then TiVo will likely plug that hole quickly. Because of the way their streaming and encryption work they have the ability to block this at the Stream hardware if they really want. If they're doing it at the software level now it's probably out of convenience, but because it depends on proprietary hardware they always have an option of blocking it at a lower level.


----------



## eboydog

In the little testing I have done, my Stream ooh works as intended. I have ran my iPod touch wifi off my Android hotspot with my Android at times only having 3G cell service for the data going to the hotspot and it works fine. For those having issues I suspect it might be more related to their home network having limited upload bandwidth from their home network. My home Internet service has 5mb up which is slightly higher than most residential Internet service, I would be curious if those who are having issues would test their home Internet bandwidth and see if there is a relationship to lower upload limits. 

You must have decent Internet upload speed off your home network were your Tivo and the Stream device is located, in terms of quality, most residential ISP's provide terrible upload capabilities both in terms of low bandwidth and high latency. Most ISPs hate home servers of any type which is what the stream technically is.

I don't believe it's a scam, it's more of a cool gimmick that attempts to do the most with several technical and legal restraints.


----------



## Austin Bike

Mine worked ok on 512k uplink, even better with 3MB.


----------



## Dan203

Haven't had the occasion to really try it yet. I have a business trip in April I'll get a chance to try it then.


----------



## jimmypowder

OOH streaming is awful quality 

I don't even bother will it anymore and use the TiVo app to delete and set recordings .


----------



## bparker

Definitely misleading, and you don't find out until you either buy and try or you watch the forums for people in similar areas. I hear that Cox in my area encrypts everything, so the stream is useless.


----------



## CuriousMark

bparker said:


> Definitely misleading, and you don't find out until you either buy and try or you watch the forums for people in similar areas. I hear that Cox in my area encrypts everything, so the stream is useless.


It is not about whether they encrypt or not, it is about whetherthey set the copy once flag or copy never flags.


----------



## Austin Bike

bparker said:


> Definitely misleading, and you don't find out until you either buy and try or you watch the forums for people in similar areas. I hear that Cox in my area encrypts everything, so the stream is useless.


You forgot to add "to me" to the end.

Too many people are knocking this product because their cable providers are screwing them. The anger is really pointed in the wrong place.


----------



## jimmypowder

Austin Bike said:


> You forgot to add "to me" to the end. Too many people are knocking this product because their cable providers are screwing them. The anger is really pointed in the wrong place.


Yeah the cable companies are screwing us , but TiVo shares some of the blame on promoting having your tv anywhere you are so heavily .

They know full well that for many of their customers this is a pipe dream.


----------



## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> Yeah the cable companies are screwing us , but TiVo shares some of the blame on promoting having your tv anywhere you are so heavily .
> 
> They know full well that for many of their customers this is a pipe dream.


That's BS, while for SOME users in either TWC or Frontier areas, there are overly aggressive service restrictions, that's not the experience for the majority of the users out there, for those users they can stream anything but the premium channels, it's not Tivo's fault some CableCOs are greedy SOBs. There's no reason for Tivo to take the hit on the CableCO being morons.


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> That's BS, while for SOME users in either TWC or Frontier areas, there are overly aggressive service restrictions, that's not the experience for the majority of the users out there, for those users they can stream anything but the premium channels, it's not Tivo's fault some CableCOs are greedy SOBs. There's no reason for Tivo to take the hit on the CableCO being morons.


It's hardly BS . I'm in a Comcast area and there are plenty of restrictions .

I don't see Tivo attempting to work with the cable companies to remove some of these restrictions , do you ?

Your comment is B.S .


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> That's BS, while for SOME users in either TWC or Frontier areas, there are overly aggressive service restrictions, that's not the experience for the majority of the users out there, for those users they can stream anything but the premium channels, it's not Tivo's fault some CableCOs are greedy SOBs. There's no reason for Tivo to take the hit on the CableCO being morons.


Tivo streaming quality is garbage anyway . Poor picture , bad audio quality

I'll use my Slingbox , where I can watch ALL of my subscribed channels not just a few .


----------



## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> It's hardly BS . I'm in a Comcast area and there are plenty of restrictions .
> I don't see Tivo attempting to work with the cable companies to remove some of these restrictions , do you ?
> Your comment is B.S .


I can stream each and every channel I'm subscribed to, if I had an HBO, etc I would not have been surprised to not be able to stream it.



jimmypowder said:


> Tivo streaming quality is garbage anyway . Poor picture , bad audio quality
> I'll use my Slingbox , where I can watch ALL of my subscribed channels not just a few .


We went through this in your other thread, we have a differing of experiences.


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> I can stream each and every channel I'm subscribed to, if I had an HBO, etc I would not have been surprised to not be able to stream it. We went through this in your other thread, we have a differing of experiences.


 Buy a Slingbox and compare the quality . You obviously don't have one otherwise I have no doubt you would think Tivo OOH streaming is poor quality . I was just on a trip . Tried Tivo OOH and it was horrendous quality . Went to my Slingbox app on the same network . HD quality !

I have no doubt you have ever used place shifters like Monsoon , Slingbox , Sony , Belkin in the past .


----------



## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> Buy a Slingbox and compare the quality . You obviously don't have one otherwise I have no doubt you would think Tivo OOH streaming is poor quality . I was just on a trip . Tried Tivo OOH and it was horrendous quality . Went to my Slingbox app on the same network . HD quality !
> 
> I have no doubt you have ever used place shifters like Monsoon , Slingbox , Sony , Belkin in the past .


It's just not a problem for me, the Tivo quality is fine for what I use it for, YMMV obviously.


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> It's just not a problem for me, the Tivo quality is fine for what I use it for, YMMV obviously.


Like I said you have never used another place shifter , ever . So how can you say Tivo OOH streaming is great when you have not used another place shifter to compare it to ??

Your comments on how great Tivo OOH is has now been exposed as a fraud .


----------



## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> Like I said you have never used another place shifter , ever . So how can you say Tivo OOH streaming is great when you have not used another place shifter to compare it to ??
> 
> Your comments on how great Tivo OOH is has now been exposed as a fraud .


I have used other place shifters, and I have said that the Stream works just fine for MY needs, there's no need to start making personal attacks because you disagree with my opinion. I don't know why you keep making assumptions about MY experiences and/or the lack thereof just because they don't agree with yours.


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> I have used other place shifters, and I have said that the Stream works just fine for MY needs, there's no need to start making personal attacks because you disagree with my opinion. I don't know why you keep making assumptions about MY experiences and/or the lack thereof just because they don't agree with yours.


 Ok which model and brand ?

How did it compare to Tivo OOH ? Honestly ??


----------



## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> Ok which model and brand ?
> 
> How did it compare to Tivo OOH ? Honestly ??


Multiple Sling devices, since they take over Tivo output, they did not meet my needs, Stream meets my needs and gives an experience that works the way I need it to, I can stream ANY item I have recorded on my Roamio or Premiere.


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> Multiple Sling devices, since they take over Tivo output, they did not meet my needs, Stream meets my needs and gives an experience that works the way I need it to, I can stream ANY item I have recorded on my Roamio or Premiere.


 They take over your to Tivo output ?? Don't get it . You don't connect your Tivo to your TV via HDMI? Was Slingbox better at OOH streaming , in your experience?


----------



## moyekj

jimmypowder said:


> They take over your to Tivo output ?? Don't get it . You don't connect your Tivo to your TV via HDMI? Was Slingbox better at OOH streaming , in your experience?


 Her point is that Slingbox can potentially interfere with another viewer using the TiVo at the same time you're using the Slingbox, whereas with the Stream that's not the case.

Both solutions have their pluses and minuses, and I'm glad to have both. As I said before when you are OOH if you DOWNLOAD instead of STREAM you can get decent quality picture. You can let download proceed for a little and then start watching, then you get much better trick play capability than using Sling and you don't interfere with any potential home users of the TiVo. If the download is too slow or you really want real time OOH viewing then you can use the Sling instead. Having both gives you best of both solutions. Personally I prefer to use the Stream whenever feasible since it offers much better trick play and commercial skip capabilities. On occasion when Stream didn't work right I switched over to Sling.


----------



## dianebrat

moyekj said:


> Her point is that Slingbox can potentially interfere with another viewer using the TiVo at the same time you're using the Slingbox, whereas with the Stream that's not the case.


Exactly, and Tivo streaming meets my current needs, unfortunately our friend just will not let it go and insists on beating any opinion I have into the ground because we differ.


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> Exactly, and Tivo streaming meets my current needs, unfortunately our friend just will not let it go and insists on beating any opinion I have into the ground because we differ.


You didn't answer my question .

Was the Slingbox OOH better audio and video quality ?


----------



## jimmypowder

moyekj said:


> Her point is that Slingbox can potentially interfere with another viewer using the TiVo at the same time you're using the Slingbox, whereas with the Stream that's not the case. Both solutions have their pluses and minuses, and I'm glad to have both. As I said before when you are OOH if you DOWNLOAD instead of STREAM you can get decent quality picture. You can let download proceed for a little and then start watching, then you get much better trick play capability than using Sling and you don't interfere with any potential home users of the TiVo. If the download is too slow or you really want real time OOH viewing then you can use the Sling instead. Having both gives you best of both solutions. Personally I prefer to use the Stream whenever feasible since it offers much better trick play and commercial skip capabilities. On occasion when Stream didn't work right I switched over to Sling.


I don't know many households that have only one tv but yes one of the reasons I bought a Roamio was the ability to watch a stream and not 
bother someone watching that tv .

Sadly most of the premium channels I cannot stream and when I'm away those are the ones I wish to view . On top of bad video and audio quality .

Thus I never use the Tivo for OOH .


----------



## slowbiscuit

Austin Bike said:


> You forgot to add "to me" to the end.
> 
> Too many people are knocking this product because their cable providers are screwing them. The anger is really pointed in the wrong place.


Uh yeah, Tivo had no say at all *in your opinion*. Mine differs, but as dan said upthread we really don't know how much they bend over (or argue for us consumers, if at all). The real problem IMO is that Tivo is so far in bed now with the cableCos (and don't make money on us) that they probably don't push the issue as hard as they could.


----------



## Austin Bike

Having been in technical marketing for 20+ years, I'd be willing to bet that this has less to do with tivo being "in bed" with anyone. They are a gnat compared to the size of the big cable giants. The reality is most likely that they are operating in a world where they don't want to piss off the big guys. They don't want to push too hard out of fear of being shut off altogether.

Look at the size of the cable market and the penetration for tivo and you'll see that they are just barely on the radar screen.


----------



## jimmypowder

Austin Bike said:


> Having been in technical marketing for 20+ years, I'd be willing to bet that this has less to do with tivo being "in bed" with anyone. They are a gnat compared to the size of the big cable giants. The reality is most likely that they are operating in a world where they don't want to piss off the big guys. They don't want to push too hard out of fear of being shut off altogether. Look at the size of the cable market and the penetration for tivo and you'll see that they are just barely on the radar screen.


This I completely agree with and is precisely why you will see no push from Tivo to get the cable companies to allow streaming via Tivo on all subscribed channels .


----------



## slowbiscuit

Austin Bike said:


> Having been in technical marketing for 20+ years, I'd be willing to bet that this has less to do with tivo being "in bed" with anyone. They are a gnat compared to the size of the big cable giants. The reality is most likely that they are operating in a world where they don't want to piss off the big guys. They don't want to push too hard out of fear of being shut off altogether.


The point here is that their bread is not being buttered by us anymore.


----------



## jimmypowder

Tivo Ooh streaming is just plain terrible.


I challenge anyone who has a Slingbox to tell me Tivo has better streaming quality .


----------



## moyekj

We heard you the 1st time. If/when TiVo eliminates need for Proxy server my guess is OOH streaming should improve.


----------



## jimmypowder

moyekj said:


> We heard you the 1st time. If/when TiVo eliminates need for Proxy server my guess is OOH streaming should improve.[/QUOT
> 
> So when will this happen ? I have 120 /25 Mbps speed at home and can't get a quality picture with the Tivo hardwired !


----------



## moyekj

Your guess is as good as mine... May never happen.


----------



## jimmypowder

moyekj said:


> Your guess is as good as mine... May never happen.[/QUOTE
> 
> Yeah wouldn't surprise me either if it never happened .


----------



## bayern_fan

Wouldn't hold my breath for a direct OOH connection or Android support, and so I got a Slingbox. IMO, it's currently the best option for true OOH streaming.


----------



## jimmypowder

bayern_fan said:


> Wouldn't hold my breath for a direct OOH connection or Android support, and so I got a Slingbox. IMO, it's currently the best option for true OOH streaming.


Agreed. And it's not even close.


----------



## Dan203

They said when they released OOH that there would be a major update in Q1 of 2014 that would enable more bitrates so that they could support OOH over 3G/LTE connections. (apparently Apple has rules about that) If we don't see an option for a direct port connection in that update I'd say we never will.


----------



## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> They said when they released OOH that there would be a major update in Q1 of 2014 that would enable more bitrates so that they could support OOH over 3G/LTE connections. (apparently Apple has rules about that) If we don't see an option for a direct port connection in that update I'd say we never will.


Without a direct connection,Tivo streaming is a scam as I see it.


----------



## Dan203

There is an indication in the sysinfo screen that they were at least testing that. So I have hope that it will happen.


----------



## kdmorse

jimmypowder said:


> Without a direct connection,Tivo streaming is a scam as I see it.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Is a slingbox better? Probably.

But not being as good as a slingbox in your opinion, for your usage, does not make it a 'scam'. We all agree it could be better than it is. Maybe it will get there, maybe it won't.


----------



## jimmypowder

kdmorse said:


> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Is a slingbox better? Probably. But not being as good as a slingbox in your opinion, for your usage, does not make it a 'scam'. We all agree it could be better than it is. Maybe it will get there, maybe it won't.


First off , I did not start this thread . Secondly , all of the premium channels I subscribe to I cannot play through the TiVo app .You can blame the cable operators for this all you want but Tivo has been promoting the " watch your Tv anywhere " very heavily but it my case I really can't . As the
premium channels are what I wanna see, TiVo 
Ooh streaming is pretty much worthless to me .

The ooh streaming I can do , is horrific video and quality . Laughably bad .

So let me just say instead if using the word "scam " ,let me rephrase what I mean .

TiVo ooh streaming is complete , utter rubbish and the alternatives like Slingbox are far superior .

I was so disappointed with TiVo ooh that I bought 2 Slingboxes after fiddling with it . I would have bought a Roamio basic if I had known it was going be this bad.


----------



## Austin Bike

jimmypowder said:


> Without a direct connection,Tivo streaming is a scam as I see it.


Everything is amazing and nobody is happy


----------



## jimmypowder

Austin Bike said:


> Everything is amazing and nobody is happy



















Here's my Slingbox & my attempt at Tivo Ooh this morning on a strong wifi Fios network at my daughters house .

Typical for me .


----------



## eboydog

Austin Bike said:


> Everything is amazing and nobody is happy


That's amazing!! 

If rotary dialing wasn't bad enough, I grew up in a rural area and found it great when our phone line was upgraded and we didn't have to worry about being on a party line (Google party line for those younger crowds who don't know what that is....).



Yes, now in 2014 I was po' ed because the virtual keyboard on my Android tablet didn't have a stock keyboard with arrow buttons and and to "buy" a third party app to add that function... . "this is crap man"!

Then on top of that I get mad mad when I type on a PC keyboard because it doesn't auto correct like my tablet does as I type......


----------



## jimmypowder

Yeah we all know now about this limitation too .

If course I I record this premium channel I still won't be able to stream it either


----------



## Arcady

jimmypowder said:


> View attachment 20568


I see the problem here. That news is all fake and the TiVo app is smart enough to refuse to play it.


----------



## jimmypowder

Arcady said:


> I see the problem here. That news is all fake and the TiVo app is smart enough to refuse to play it.


Ha . Maybe .


----------



## bayern_fan

jimmypowder said:


> Ha . Maybe .


It would also then have a similar behavior for MSNBC, no?


----------



## Dan203

MSNBC is whiny and smug, but typically factual.


----------



## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> MSNBC is whiny and smug, but typically factual.


Isn't Chris Matthews on there?LOL


----------



## jimmypowder

Horrible picture - ooh streaming


----------



## johnh123

jimmypowder said:


> Yeah most content is copyrighted so Tivo streaming is pretty much worthless.I watch a lot of premium movies.
> 
> I bought a couple of slingboxes because of all the Tivo Roamio streaming issues and could not be happier.
> 
> Just used them for 2 weeks and rarely did I get any buffering and I can watch anything that I recorded or that's on tv.


Why don't you just use hbo go etc for the premium content ooh? Why bother with tivo or slingbox for that?


----------



## jimmypowder

johnh123 said:


> Why don't you just use hbo go etc for the premium content ooh? Why bother with tivo or slingbox for that?


I do but not all premium channels like Starz are any good .


----------



## jimmypowder

Tivo ooh streaming is still garbage .


Lots of " error connecting to your device " messages .Terrible picture .

This Tivo feature stinks .


----------



## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> Tivo ooh streaming is still garbage .
> Lots of " error connecting to your device " messages .Terrible picture .
> This Tivo feature stinks .


we get it... your Stream experience bites and you got a Slingbox, it's not going to magically get better.

But I'm keeping my vow that every time you play this song I will come in, speak up, and let folks know that I'm perfectly happy with my stream experience and that it streams everything I record in a manner that I find perfectly acceptable.


----------



## Dan203

I'll get to try out OOH streaming in about a week. I'm attending NAB in Vegas for 4 days. I'll report back my honest opinion when I return. I have experience with both in home Stream and SlingBox OOH so I have a good idea of how I expect it to work. We'll see if it lives up to my expectations.


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> we get it... your Stream experience bites and you got a Slingbox, it's not going to magically get better. But I'm keeping my vow that every time you play this song I will come in, speak up, and let folks know that I'm perfectly happy with my stream experience and that it streams everything I record in a manner that I find perfectly acceptable.


Yeah ok . Next time your away from your house post some screen pictures like I have . Let's see 
your Tivo quality experience . Don't post a in house streaming picture . We all know that quality is fine .


----------



## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> I'll get to try out OOH streaming in about a week. I'm attending NAB in Vegas for 4 days. I'll report back my honest opinion when I return. I have experience with both in home Stream and SlingBox OOH so I have a good idea of how I expect it to work. We'll see if it lives up to my expectations.


It won't


----------



## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> Yeah ok . Next time your away from your house post some screen pictures like I have . Let's see
> your Tivo quality experience . Don't post a in house streaming picture . We all know that quality is fine .


Sorry, but I have no interest in dancing for you. Plenty of other users have said that Stream does what they want.


----------



## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> Sorry, but I have no interest in dancing for you. Plenty of other users have said that Stream does what they want.


Let's see the picture quality of your stream away from home ,

I'm interested in seeing how your picture quality 
differs from mine .


----------



## jimmypowder

At the end of a recent trip , I tried Tivo ooh streaming and it went into setup mode . 

This has happened before and once you see it your dead in the water for the rest of the trip until you setup again at home . 

This app and ooh streaming are complete garbage !!!!


----------



## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> I'll get to try out OOH streaming in about a week. I'm attending NAB in Vegas for 4 days. I'll report back my honest opinion when I return. I have experience with both in home Stream and SlingBox OOH so I have a good idea of how I expect it to work. We'll see if it lives up to my expectations.


So how's it working out for you ? Show a screen picture if you get it to work .


----------



## Dan203

I was off by a week. NAB is next week. Leaving on Sat


----------



## ellinj

jimmypowder said:


> At the end of a recent trip , I tried Tivo ooh streaming and it went into setup mode .
> 
> This has happened before and once you see it your dead in the water for the rest of the trip until you setup again at home .
> 
> This app and ooh streaming are complete garbage !!!!


i have had this happen before, I am always able to repeat setup away from home with no problem. I suspect that the stream caches the MAC address of the device somewhere.


----------



## jimmypowder

ellinj said:


> i have had this happen before, I am always able to repeat setup away from home with no problem. I suspect that the stream caches the MAC address of the device somewhere.


 Not me .im using a TiVo Roamio .

I thought all TiVo streaming had to be setup at home . Are you using a Roamio or a separate TiVo Stream box ?


----------



## ellinj

jimmypowder said:


> Not me .im using a TiVo Roamio .
> 
> I thought all TiVo streaming had to be setup at home . Are you using a Roamio or a separate TiVo Stream box ?


Stand alone, but as far as I can tell only the initial setup must be at home. My guess is this requirement has something to do with configuring the proxy server that Tivo uses. I have had on more than one occasion, the app fail to connect and tell me that I need to run setup, I simply ran setup, the stream was found and configured with no issues even though I wash't home.


----------



## jimmypowder

ellinj said:


> Stand alone, but as far as I can tell only the initial setup must be at home. My guess is this requirement has something to do with configuring the proxy server that Tivo uses. I have had on more than one occasion, the app fail to connect and tell me that I need to run setup, I simply ran setup, the stream was found and configured with no issues even though I wash't home.


I tried to do setup away from the house and it would not work .

I'll try again when I'm away from the house and this bug shows up again, which I'm sure it will .


----------



## johnh123

That happened to me but I just did setup again and it worked fine 

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

Ok I've watched a couple of things so far on my trip and even with the slow hotel WiFi (1-1.5Mbps) it's been fine. The only complaint I have is the audio starts to sound a bit weird with lower bars. When you get to the 2-3 bar level the video looks SD, but is watchable, but the audio sounds a bit like everyone is talking through a tin can. At 4 bars or higher it sounds OK. I think they'd be better served bumping the audio a bit and sacrificing a bit of video. We've found in our product that people are much more sensitive to audio glitches then video glitches. (to a limit) Maybe they could even use VFR video to save bits and dedicate more to audio. (VFR = Variable Frame Rate)

But all in all it's been so far so good.


----------



## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> Ok I've watched a couple of things so far on my trip and even with the slow hotel WiFi (1-1.5Mbps) it's been fine. The only complaint I have is the audio starts to sound a bit weird with lower bars. When you get to the 2-3 bar level the video looks SD, but is watchable, but the audio sounds a bit like everyone is talking through a tin can. At 4 bars or higher it sounds OK. I think they'd be better served bumping the audio a bit and sacrificing a bit of video. We've found in our product that people are much more sensitive to audio glitches then video glitches. (to a limit) Maybe they could even use VFR video to save bits and dedicate more to audio. (VFR = Variable Frame Rate)
> 
> But all in all it's been so far so good.


post a picture .lets see the video quality.You said you have experience with Slingbox,how does the audio and video quality compare ?


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## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> post a picture .lets see the video quality.You said you have experience with Slingbox,how does the audio and video quality compare ?


Why should anyone feed you on this? we already know as far as you're concerned the Stream is utter and total crap and your slingbox kicks its butt and you won't stop until you have everyone agreeing with you about the Stream.

I've spent all afternoon watching the race in Texas on a wifi signal that barely supports streaming AUDIO and while the quality of the video is mediocre at best, I can still watch the race live.


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## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> Why should anyone feed you on this? we already know as far as you're concerned the Stream is utter and total crap and your slingbox kicks its butt and you won't stop until you have everyone agreeing with you about the Stream.
> 
> I've spent all afternoon watching the race in Texas on a wifi signal that barely supports streaming AUDIO and while the quality of the video is mediocre at best, I can still watch the race live.


Let's see factual evidence .Lets see a pic .That's what I did(posted a pic) earlier and the video was garbage!

Did you seen my pics? Guess not


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## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> Let's see factual evidence .Lets see a pic .That's what I did(posted a pic) earlier and the video was garbage!
> 
> Did you seen my pics? Guess not


 I don't give a care about "your pics" nor do I care to bother to post what I've admitted was a mediocre but acceptable experience, I'm not saying it was Blu-ray quality, I'm saying I was able to stream in a bandwidth challenged environment that has trouble with audio only.

You need to change your tune, the constant refrain of "show me pics" was old months ago, no Stream image will ever be good enough for you, so why should we bother?


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## ellinj

Not sure what this will prove since its not video, but I am on hotel wifi, and it looks great.


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## jimmypowder

ellinj said:


> Not sure what this will prove since its not video, but I am on hotel wifi, and it looks great.


 Better video quality then I have ever seen on a 20 /5 wifi out of home wifi site . And this is hotel wifi ? Hmmmm amazing !!!

Oh I see the bar . This is a program you have recorded at home and are watching ,correct?

I'm talking about streaming a show you haven't recorded completely yet . Almost real time streaming .

Am I right about this ?


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## ellinj

jimmypowder said:


> Better video quality then I have ever seen on a 20 /5 wifi out of home wifi site . And this is hotel wifi ? Hmmmm amazing !!!
> 
> Oh I see the bar . This is a program you have recorded at home and are watching ,correct?
> 
> I'm talking about streaming a show you haven't recorded completely yet . Almost real time streaming .
> 
> Am I right about this ?


Live looks the same, HLS streaming breaks the video up into small chunks, a partial recording vs a full recording won't make a difference.


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## jimmypowder

ellinj said:


> Live looks the same, HLS streaming breaks the video up into small chunks, a partial recording vs a full recording won't make a difference.


 I get nowhere near this quality on stronger private networks . Are you using a TiVo Stream or a Roamio with the built in stream ?


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## ellinj

jimmypowder said:


> I get nowhere near this quality on stronger private networks . Are you using a TiVo Stream or a Roamio with the built in stream ?


stand alone stream


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## jimmypowder

ellinj said:


> stand alone stream[/QUOTE
> 
> Ok I'm using a Roamio hardwired .
> 
> I'm beginning to think the stand alone streamer is better .
> 
> I get nowhere near this quality except when I'm in
> home streaming .


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## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> ellinj said:
> 
> 
> 
> stand alone stream
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I'm using a Roamio hardwired .
> 
> I'm beginning to think the stand alone streamer is better .
> 
> I get nowhere near this quality except when I'm in
> home streaming .
Click to expand...

They're exactly the same hardware platform and quality, I Stream from my Premiere via my Roamio, and previously used a stand-alone, no difference I ever saw.


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## jimmypowder

dianebrat said:


> They're exactly the same hardware platform and quality, I Stream from my Premiere via my Roamio, and previously used a stand-alone, no difference I ever saw.[/QUOTE
> 
> Well my experience is the Tivo Stream is garbage .
> 
> I wish I had bought a Roamio Basic


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## dianebrat

jimmypowder said:


> dianebrat said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're exactly the same hardware platform and quality, I Stream from my Premiere via my Roamio, and previously used a stand-alone, no difference I ever saw.
> 
> 
> 
> Well my experience is the Tivo Stream is garbage .
> 
> I wish I had bought a Roamio Basic
Click to expand...

So do we.. so do we..


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## jimmypowder

ellinj said:


> Not sure what this will prove since its not video, but I am on hotel wifi, and it looks great.


This must be the best hotel wifi on the planet. I have never seen such a good picture except with in house wifi streaming.

OOH with 20/5 private wifi and the picture quality isnt even close to this,in my experience.


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## Austin Bike

OK, I see a trend here. Seems to be working for almost everyone and with decent quality. There are a couple people having problems.

Normally, in troubleshooting, when it works exactly as expected for most of the people, you narrow this down to an external variable that exists among those users.

So, can we take this conversation from "Tivo isn't doing this right" to "what is is about my environment that is causing this."

We have enough data to show that it can work right and we have dozens of variables outside of their control (your network, the hotel network, your ISP, the hotel's ISP and, quite frankly _every stop in between on the intenet_.

I grow tired of people who can't get technology to work (for whatever reason) blaming the wrong thing. Let's all take a little ownership and recognize that if it isn't working right that you may be contributing to the issue in one way or another.


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## jimmypowder

Austin Bike said:


> OK, I see a trend here. Seems to be working for almost everyone and with decent quality. There are a couple people having problems.
> 
> Normally, in troubleshooting, when it works exactly as expected for most of the people, you narrow this down to an external variable that exists among those users.
> 
> So, can we take this conversation from "Tivo isn't doing this right" to "what is is about my environment that is causing this."
> 
> We have enough data to show that it can work right and we have dozens of variables outside of their control (your network, the hotel network, your ISP, the hotel's ISP and, quite frankly _every stop in between on the intenet_.
> 
> I grow tired of people who can't get technology to work (for whatever reason) blaming the wrong thing. Let's all take a little ownership and recognize that if it isn't working right that you may be contributing to the issue in one way or another.


Every out of the home steaming device I have from Slingbox,Audiotap ,Vulkano,VNC works just fine except the TIvo ooh.

Ive done plenty of troubleshooting and I know it's not my network

I have 110/22 mbps speeds at my house as well .The private ooh network I use has 20/5 . I still cannot get even close to the video quality
of this guy's hotel wifi.

Hardwired Roamio so its not a wifi issue.


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## ellinj

jimmypowder said:


> Every out of the home steaming device I have from Slingbox,Audiotap ,Vulkano,VNC works just fine except the TIvo ooh.
> 
> Ive done plenty of troubleshooting and I know it's not my network
> 
> I have 110/22 mbps speeds at my house as well .The private ooh network I use has 20/5 . I still cannot get even close to the video quality
> of this guy's hotel wifi.
> 
> Hardwired Roamio so its not a wifi issue.


Is it possible your Roamio is just broken? Or your ISP is throttling certain types of connections? The hotel wifi I was using last night wasn't particularly great, but I suppose I can do a speed test tonight.


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## moyekj

It's pretty likely the issue is out of jimmypowder's control, such as an issue with going through TiVo proxy server and the internet path being taken to do that. Remember, jimmypowder says the quality is fine for in home streaming, so that pretty much rules out a local network problem or an issue with the Stream hardware. Having said that, the OOH screen capture jimmypowder posted looked pretty decent to me - I've seen much worse using the Stream OOH.


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## moyekj

NOTE: While streaming, a 2 finger left-to-right swipe will bring up additional statistics about the stream (at bottom of screen) which would be useful information (resolution & bitrate) to see as part of any screen capture.


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## jimmypowder

moyekj said:


> It's pretty likely the issue is out of jimmypowder's control, such as an issue with going through TiVo proxy server and the internet path being taken to do that. Remember, jimmypowder says the quality is fine for in home streaming, so that pretty much rules out a local network problem or an issue with the Stream hardware. Having said that, the OOH screen capture jimmypowder posted looked pretty decent to me - I've seen much worse using the Stream OOH.


That was one of the better screen captures . I have seen a lot worse too.

Frankly , I don't even bother anymore with Tivo ooh streaming and just use my Slingbox .

Last time I tried to yes it , setup mode came up again . This happens frequently , about 3 out of 5-6 times I've tried to
stream .

I have zero issues with my Slingbox or the Vulkano I have .

Hopefully , Tive ooh streaming will get better . In house streaming looks great but I don't really use it with hdtv's 
around .


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## ellinj

Not sure what all the numbers mean , but here you go.


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## ellinj

and the hotel wifi not horrendous, certainly better than many I have encountered,


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## ellinj

and my home internet


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## Austin Bike

jimmypowder said:


> Every out of the home steaming device I have from Slingbox,Audiotap ,Vulkano,VNC works just fine except the TIvo ooh.
> 
> Ive done plenty of troubleshooting and I know it's not my network
> 
> I have 110/22 mbps speeds at my house as well .The private ooh network I use has 20/5 . I still cannot get even close to the video quality
> of this guy's hotel wifi.
> 
> Hardwired Roamio so its not a wifi issue.


I also stated that it could be your ISP or every stop along the way on the internet. I have seen cases where multiple applications all work fine and one does not because of the ports/settings that it relies on where the others do not. Don't rule out your network unless you are sure that all of those devices are using the same transport parameters, the same security settings and the same ports.


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## Dan203

I've been watching quite a few things and for me it's aboutt he same as my old Slingbox. Now to be fair my Slingbox was an older one that was SD only, maybe they've gitten better with the newer HD ones. But for me the picture is fine for my tiny little iPad screen given that my upload speed at home is only 3-4Mbps. Also I ran a speed test and even though the hotel login page says it's capped at 1Mbps it's actually getting about 30Mbps. So I think the only reason I'm not getting full HD is because of my upload limitations on my home network side. But even though I'm only getting 5 out of 7 bars in the TiVo app it looks fine to me. It's obviously not full resolution HD, but it's more then watchable.


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## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> I've been watching quite a few things and for me it's aboutt he same as my old Slingbox. Now to be fair my Slingbox was an older one that was SD only, maybe they've gitten better with the newer HD ones. But for me the picture is fine for my tiny little iPad screen given that my upload speed at home is only 3-4Mbps. Also I ran a speed test and even though the hotel login page says it's capped at 1Mbps it's actually getting about 30Mbps. So I think the only reason I'm not getting full HD is because of my upload limitations on my home network side. But even though I'm only getting 5 out of 7 bars in the TiVo app it looks fine to me. It's obviously not full resolution HD, but it's more then watchable.


Yeah the Tivo is Sd quality or worse . The new 
Sling boxes have HD quality . I had an older Slingbox and all it did was buffer , poor pic, 
My 350 is amazing .


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## ellinj

Austin Bike said:


> I also stated that it could be your ISP or every stop along the way on the internet. I have seen cases where multiple applications all work fine and one does not because of the ports/settings that it relies on where the others do not. Don't rule out your network unless you are sure that all of those devices are using the same transport parameters, the same security settings and the same ports.


Agreed, a while back I spent months troubleshooting a customer who claimed the website we were developing was slow, they insisted it was our fault, even though the customer was the only one screaming about it.

We ended up sending a network engineer out there, turns out it was a their ISP fiddling with the TCP window sizes and retries as a way to limit the bandwidth the customer was using. Once the issue was escalated to the ISP and customer actually started getting what they were paying for the problem went away.


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## Dan203

jimmypowder said:


> Yeah the Tivo is Sd quality or worse . The new
> Sling boxes have HD quality . I had an older Slingbox and all it did was buffer , poor pic,
> My 350 is amazing .


I downloaded one show, at Best, to compare. It was clearer, but not by a lot especially when sitting the iPad on my knees and watching from 1-2' away. The Stream was plenty watchable to me.

I never really had a problem with the SlingBox quality either. My biggest complaint about it was the control lag and the fact that they charged $30 for the app and you needed a different version, at $30/ea for every type of device.


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## moyekj

Yes the lag with Slingbox is VERY annoying, especially when trying skip commercials.
If you use a PC/laptop the Sling web client is free (and you can even using a hack to use web browser on Linux box as a client). The iOS/Android Sling clients are now $15.

One can workaround the Sling lag problem by recording Sling output and then playing that back after waiting a while, but it's inconvenient to have to use web client to start playback of a show you want to watch, then switch over to kmttg and start a recording of the Sling output, then wait a while before you can start watching. The Stream is a lot more convenient OOH even though the picture quality can be pretty bad at times.

With Sling web client recently I keep getting audio/video sync issues after a while for which I have to use trick play every few minutes to correct which is very annoying. The Stream has also been annoying lately freezing in last 2 minutes of show and not playing beyond that so that I end up missing the end of the show and having to use Sling to finish watching.

So to me I'm not really that happy with either Stream or Sling solutions, but it's good to have option to switch between them.


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## jimmypowder

Dan203 said:


> I downloaded one show, at Best, to compare. It was clearer, but not by a lot especially when sitting the iPad on my knees and watching from 1-2' away. The Stream was plenty watchable to me.
> 
> I never really had a problem with the SlingBox quality either. My biggest complaint about it was the control lag and the fact that they charged $30 for the app and you needed a different version, at $30/ea for every type of device.


This would be my only complaint with my Slingbox 350 .The controls are slow,
delayed.

I really cant figure out why my Tivo ooh streaming looks so bad when my current speedtest in my house in 170/23 mbps.

The Slingbox is definitely streaming in HD.Tivo looks like SD at best.


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## Gromit

I've had my Stream for a couple of weeks now. In home streaming is great. So far, out of home streaming sucks. 

Maybe it's the hotel wifi, but it freezes and when it's not freezing, it looks pretty bad.


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## moyekj

Gromit said:


> Maybe it's the hotel wifi, but it freezes and when it's not freezing, it looks pretty bad.


 Use downloads instead of streaming. (Start a download, wait 20 minutes or so, then start watching).


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## Gromit

moyekj said:


> Use downloads instead of streaming. (Start a download, wait 20 minutes or so, then start watching).


Yeah, I discovered that the other night. 

I'm pretty sure the hotel wifi is inconsistent. This morning streaming was very watchable.


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## Dan203

I just discovered that my cable company only sets the CCI byte on Sho and HBO, and on HBO they only set it on the West Coast feed. The East coast one is free. Also most/all of the secondary channels for both HBO and Sho are unprotected. So I can record from them and download/stream anything to my iPad or PC. :up:


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## wco81

So are there any workarounds for streaming protected content out of the home?

I guess I could just use HBO Go but if you travel overseas, then it won't, without workarounds there too.

Can you stream over the Internet to Desktop Tivo clients? Or using pyTivo or kttmg?

Only other thing I can think of would be placeshifting hardware like Sling.


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## wco81

Dan203 said:


> I just discovered that my cable company only sets the CCI byte on Sho and HBO, and on HBO they only set it on the West Coast feed. The East coast one is free. Also most/all of the secondary channels for both HBO and Sho are unprotected. So I can record from them and download/stream anything to my iPad or PC. :up:


Your cable system has multiple HBO channels in HD?

Not all system does ...


----------

