# Xfinity eliminating all TiVos



## Garry Hansen (Nov 12, 2020)

Just moved to a co-op in Naples Florida and could not get the required cable card from Comcast Xfinity as this community is now all EPON TV and internet and it cannot support cable cards which means all TiVos are rendered useless (other than watching what you recorded in your old address). Filed FCC complaint because thought cable providers could not force you to use their equipment and received a nice call from their government compliance person who said it is what it is and they will never give this community a cable card again. TIVO needs to address this by either forcing Comcast Xfinity to create a workaround (like the old tuning adapters Cablevision Optimum required)or TIVO needs to create a workaround. TIVO saying they would be happy to sell me a Roku type stick instead is not the answer. The Xfinity X1 box I am forced to use is works like a TIVO 1.0 from a hundred years ago (slow with few features and very unpredictable). This will destroy TIVO if it spreads nationwide and it is not addressed.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

The FCC mandate to support CableCARDs is no more thanks to decisions by the current FCC administrator.
The answer is that if a local cable company decides to no longer support CableCARD you need to move to another company that does.
If you don't have another provider available that shows the problem with monopolies in markets.

Is Buying A TiVo A Safe Purchase With The Cable Card FCC Mandate Gone?


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## Garry Hansen (Nov 12, 2020)

dianebrat said:


> The FCC mandate to support CableCARDs is no more thanks to decisions by the current FCC administrator.
> The answer is that if a local cable company decides to no longer support CableCARD you need to move to another company that does.
> If you don't have another provider available that shows the problem with monopolies in markets.
> 
> Is Buying A TiVo A Safe Purchase With The Cable Card FCC Mandate Gone?


Understood that the FCC mandate for cable cards was eliminated Sept 2020 BUT does anyone know if a previous mandate that cable companies "cannot force you to use their equipment" is still in effect? Even if Comcast Xfinity gives you the box that works on EPON at no charge that means your bill could be lower without their box. So, are they allowed to force you to use their equipment like in the old days?


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Garry Hansen said:


> Understood that the FCC mandate for cable cards was eliminated Sept 2020 BUT does anyone know if a previous mandate that cable companies "cannot force you to use their equipment" is still in effect? Even if Comcast Xfinity gives you the box that works on EPON at no charge that means your bill could be lower without their box. So, are they allowed to force you to use their equipment like in the old days?


Not a lawyer but I think the use of EPON fiber places them in the exception-zone with Dish and DirecTV regarding cablecards/customer owned equipment. Only reason VZW/Frontier offers it on their FiOs TV is because they use RFoG, so it's basically QAM cable anyway.


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

Xfinity Fiber-Only Network Now in Your Area

As Comcast reports, there are currently no non-Comcast devices available, neither modem nor TV box. Maybe in the future...


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

One could always use the Xfinity Stream app on Roku with cloud DVR without using their box, correct?


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## DVR_Dave (Apr 19, 2017)

Send a message to Biden's pager (or call his bag phone) so he can escalate your complaint.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Well, I was going to make a more serious suggestion to wait for the new administration and then send a request to the FCC to reinstate the cable card requirement(*).

(*) I'm actually against government mandates in most cases, but IF we're going to give them a government sanctioned monopoly, THEN having requirements is reasonable.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

GBL said:


> Xfinity Fiber-Only Network Now in Your Area
> 
> As Comcast reports, there are currently no non-Comcast devices available, neither modem nor TV box. Maybe in the future...


TIL. Seems like they're pretty customer unfriendly w/this new technology.


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

We lucked out with Comcast's RFoG in our community. Still keeping fingers crossed though. Ours hasn't been lit quite yet.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I’m trying to get a new promotion with Xfinity and they are telling me cableCard equipment is not eligible for promotions and that I’d need a new box from them and would have to return the cards.

Edit: the retention teams could get me a promo, but the web site and Twitter team could not.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

I know this is overly ???? but you'd think all these cable companies would try and make it easy for users to use their services no matter what equipment - instead they are driving customers away with "cord cutters" - but then again who know why companies do what they do


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

ManeJon said:


> I know this is overly ???? but you'd think all these cable companies would try and make it easy for users to use their services no matter what equipment - instead they are driving customers away with "cord cutters" - but then again who know why companies do what they do


They have no incentive to support CableCARDs when they can make more renting cable boxes and DVRs


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

DigitalDawn said:


> We lucked out with Comcast's RFoG in our community.


This is what our condo building has. So luckily for me, all my TiVo equipment works fine. And it's a ****load of TiVos: two Roamios, four Minis.

Also, we get blazing fast Internet, usually in the 600-800 range (quick look on Google Home app: 805 Mbps).


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

dianebrat said:


> They have no incentive to support CableCARDs when they can make more renting cable boxes and DVRs


Plus not having to deal with owners TiVos that often have problems, pairing TAs, etc.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

UCLABB said:


> Plus not having to deal with owners TiVos that often have problems, pairing TAs, etc.


Yes but how many have they driven away to things such as YOUTUBE TV, etc. So they have lost them as total customers - which is what I meant.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

The number of retail-box cablecards is likely such a low blip on the overall numbers that they don't factor in any kind of impact on overall total customer numbers - yet certainly have a disproportionate impact on costs for the amount of customer service they need.


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

Just changed my Comcast plan here in Tucson and they gave me a $60 a month plan that includes basic cable, 100 mbps internet, cable card for my Tivo Vox, HD cable box for the bedroom and the HD fee.


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## angelsix (Aug 16, 2011)

Any info about when Xfinity will be 'upgrading' networks other places and terminating cable cards (TIVOs)? Is this a function of upgrading to optical cable networks (which will probably take a long time)? I'm having trouble with my TIVO, and thinking about upgrading. If I do, and 6 months from now we get a giddy announcement from Xfinity that they have wonderful news (that basically just disables the TIVO) it will be a little chilly around my sweet spouse for a while.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Comcast isn’t just flipping a switch and disabling Tivos, though they have been migrating some channels to IPTV only which can’t be tuned on Tivos.


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## the_Skywise (Nov 27, 2000)

In my case they've already moved a small handful of channels, like Sundance, to IPTV - all new channels that have come online recently are also IPTV only.
It was hard to notice at first because comcast in my area has been bumping a lot of the channels to their "sports tier" (y'know, like Country Music Television...) requiring extra $$$ so when I first lost sundance I thought it was the same thing (not that I watch a lot of sundance but it had the occasional movie I liked) but checking the listing it's "included" in my package.

I'll be cutting the TV portion of comcast sometime this year - My original plan was to switch to OTA with my TiVo Bolt but I just picked up an HDHomeRun tuner and am looking at using that and then making my AppleTV my central "hub" and giving up on TiVo after 20+ years.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Note that even though they're moving some niche channels to IP, the SD versions are still on cable. You just have to look for them, yeah not great but at least you can still watch them. We never got Sundance in HD and it's still on Comcast in SD here.


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## angelsix (Aug 16, 2011)

morac said:


> Comcast ... have been migrating some channels to IPTV only which can't be tuned on Tivos.


I want more information about that. How rapid is this rollout? Can I find out when it is planned for my area? You said "some channels" -- does that mean that most of the channels will still work through the TIVO, or did you mean "some areas"? TIVO Corp. is still selling TIVO boxes, and Comcast is still renting cable cards to people buying TIVO boxes. Apparently both corporations know that Comcast is implementing a plan that will be disabling TIVO boxes, but neither corporation is making that information available.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

angelsix said:


> Apparently both corporations know that* Comcast is implementing a plan that will be disabling TIVO boxes,* but neither corporation is making that information available.


That is a completely inaccurate assumption, Comcast is implementing some new features that do not include a way for Tivo units to access them, that is not "disabling Tivo boxes"


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## BigGuy62 (Apr 16, 2017)

They find it much easier to do support and troubleshoot issues, when they have end to end control. Also good money in the hardware monthly fee.



ManeJon said:


> I know this is overly ???? but you'd think all these cable companies would try and make it easy for users to use their services no matter what equipment - instead they are driving customers away with "cord cutters" - but then again who know why companies do what they do


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

BigGuy62 said:


> They find it much easier to do support and troubleshoot issues, when they have end to end control. Also good money in the hardware monthly fee.


I used to rent a voice modem from Comcast and their idea of support at the time was to simply keep swapping out the modem. I had a modem swapped several times before they determined there was an outside wiring issue.

The only thing the X1 platform gets them is the ability to reboot the device and query it for a "good vs bad" status. That's fine if the hardware fails, but since the vast majority of issues aren't in-home failures that does very little.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

morac said:


> I'm trying to get a new promotion with Xfinity and they are telling me cableCard equipment is not eligible for promotions and that I'd need a new box from them and would have to return the cards.
> 
> Edit: the retention teams could get me a promo, but the web site and Twitter team could not.


do not return cable cards I have xfinity from comcast and still use the same cable cards I have had, if you have moved or do a new promotion or package make sure they move your existing cable cards over to your new account and if they dont, call the 800 number and speak to the billing dept and they will migrate any custumer owned equipment over to your account including modems, they can also migrate your cable cards over, then you can use the cable card self activation screen to reactivate your cable cards.

the rep at comcast was probable not trained properly, as a lot of them are not and are taught to just to have knowledge of comcast equipment. if that happens you need to call the 800 number before you do anything.

trust me I moved a year and a half ago to another address and ordered a new package and the computer system did not complete migrating my cable cards and modem over but the billing dept found everything from my old account number when I called and migrated everything over manually for me and things have been fine since.

hope this helps


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

angelsix said:


> I want more information about that. How rapid is this rollout? Can I find out when it is planned for my area? You said "some channels" -- does that mean that most of the channels will still work through the TIVO, or did you mean "some areas"? TIVO Corp. is still selling TIVO boxes, and Comcast is still renting cable cards to people buying TIVO boxes. Apparently both corporations know that Comcast is implementing a plan that will be disabling TIVO boxes, but neither corporation is making that information available.


Based on everything I've read on various threads here recently, it looks like Comcast is going to continue offering and supporting CableCARDs for as long as they still transmit cable TV via the traditional QAM system. For a few years now, Comcast has been operating two TV transmission systems simultaneously nationwide: QAM and IPTV (internet protocol TV). CableCARD devices like TiVo DVR can only work with QAM, not IPTV. (If you want to use your own retail device with Comcast's IPTV, then you must use their Xfinity Stream app for Roku, Fire TV, smart TVs, etc.) In some markets (at this point, maybe even all of them), Comcast is now setting new customers up by default on IPTV if they subscribe to both TV and broadband. They receive a new-model X1 box that is IPTV-only or they use the Xfinity Stream app on their own device. Although new customers still have the option of getting set up with QAM TV if they ask for it.

And, as already pointed out in this thread, some new channels and newly added HD versions of existing channels are only being added on Comcast's IPTV system, not the old QAM system (meaning that they aren't available to TiVo users or to the fairly small percentage of Comcast customers who are using pre-X1 QAM-only boxes/adapters from Comcast). I don't know if this is happening in *all* Comcast areas but it's happening in a lot of them, across a big chunk of the country.

So the question you should be asking, as a Comcast TV customer who is contemplating buying a new TiVo, is "How much longer until Comcast shuts down QAM TV in my area and only offers IPTV, thereby rendering all TiVo DVRs useless with Comcast cable TV?" It's been rumored for years that they eventually plan to do this. I even found an internal Comcast presentation online, from around 2016, I think, that references "Project GRAM," their plan that was already underway to evolve to an all-IP network in conjunction with the future rollout of Full Duplex DOCSIS 3.1/4.0.) This is a move that eventually all cable operators will take. I found a Cox Cable presentation a few months back indicating that they plan to go all-IPTV around late 2023, IIRC. And Cable One/Sparklight just announced that they are beginning such a transition this year.

Comcast hasn't made any public statements about their plans to go IPTV-only, but it's coming at some point. I personally wouldn't risk spending around a thousand bucks on a new TiVo with lifetime service at this point. But who knows, maybe Comcast won't dump QAM and go IPTV-only until 2025, in which case, maybe the investment would be worth it to you. OTOH, maybe Comcast makes the move in phases, removing upper-tier channels from QAM late this year and by 2024 offering only their Basic package of locals on QAM? Or maybe all QAM TV on Comcast shuts down in mid-2022? No one knows.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> Comcast hasn't made any public statements about their plans to go IPTV-only, but it's coming at some point. I personally wouldn't risk spending around a thousand bucks on a new TiVo with lifetime service at this point. But who knows, maybe Comcast won't dump QAM and go IPTV-only until 2025, in which case, maybe the investment would be worth it to you. OTOH, maybe Comcast makes the move in phases, removing upper-tier channels from QAM late this year and by 2024 offering only their Basic package of locals on QAM? Or maybe all QAM TV on Comcast shuts down in mid-2022? No one knows.


Yeah I certainly wouldn't spend a grand to replace a dead Tivo today, but I would spend $2-300 to get a used lifetime Roamio as long as Comcast keeps all the popular channels on QAM. Their HSI+cable bundles are very competitive with any combo of HSI+streaming and you get the better Tivo experience to go with it.

Who knows when they'll make a big move to IP, but it will come one day.


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## Susan G (May 24, 2019)

I just ran into an issue when I moved from Colorado to Tucson. My cable card (which I brought with me) could not be migrated to my new account ... something about incompatibility between the two regions. It was a three-ring circus. Finally, after spending many hours on the phone, the second technician they sent out said he new where to find cable cards; drove to the location, and brought back three! (In his words "the first one never seems to work, so I got a spare and a spare for the spare".)


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

Susan G said:


> I just ran into an issue when I moved from Colorado to Tucson.


What might have happened is the area you moved to uses a different cablecard brand due to what equipment they use.
There are cards from four different card brands that I know of.
Motorola, Cisco/Scientific Atlanta, Conax and NDS
Example: You moved from an area that uses Motorola but new area uses Cisco.
Motorola is not compatible with their equipment but Cisco is so you need a new card.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

Garry Hansen said:


> Just moved to a co-op in Naples Florida and could not get the required cable card from Comcast Xfinity as this community is now all EPON TV and internet and it cannot support cable cards which means all TiVos are rendered useless (other than watching what you recorded in your old address). Filed FCC complaint because thought cable providers could not force you to use their equipment and received a nice call from their government compliance person who said it is what it is and they will never give this community a cable card again. TIVO needs to address this by either forcing Comcast Xfinity to create a workaround (like the old tuning adapters Cablevision Optimum required)or TIVO needs to create a workaround. TIVO saying they would be happy to sell me a Roku type stick instead is not the answer. The Xfinity X1 box I am forced to use is works like a TIVO 1.0 from a hundred years ago (slow with few features and very unpredictable). This will destroy TIVO if it spreads nationwide and it is not addressed.


Please see my reply and answer but basically if you move to a new area and the Rep from Comcast or service center tries to force you to return your cable card and use the x1 box you need to contact the 800 number from Comcast and speak to a rep trained in billing and have them manually migrate your equipment over. Then you can use the cable card self activation site from Comcast to pair it.

If you have already returned them then you need to contact Comcast at the 800 number and have them ship out to you a new cable card.

The only way the situation you described could be possible is if the comunity you moved to does comunity billing or commercial billing, in other words if you still have an individual residential account with Comcast, call the 800 number and have them send you a new cable card and put your modem on your account then return the Comcast equipment.

Hope my reply helps.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

NashGuy said:


> Based on everything I've read on various threads here recently, it looks like Comcast is going to continue offering and supporting CableCARDs for as long as they still transmit cable TV via the traditional QAM system. For a few years now, Comcast has been operating two TV transmission systems simultaneously nationwide: QAM and IPTV (internet protocol TV). CableCARD devices like TiVo DVR can only work with QAM, not IPTV. (If you want to use your own retail device with Comcast's IPTV, then you must use their Xfinity Stream app for Roku, Fire TV, smart TVs, etc.) In some markets (at this point, maybe even all of them), Comcast is now setting new customers up by default on IPTV if they subscribe to both TV and broadband. They receive a new-model X1 box that is IPTV-only or they use the Xfinity Stream app on their own device. Although new customers still have the option of getting set up with QAM TV if they ask for it.
> 
> And, as already pointed out in this thread, some new channels and newly added HD versions of existing channels are only being added on Comcast's IPTV system, not the old QAM system (meaning that they aren't available to TiVo users or to the fairly small percentage of Comcast customers who are using pre-X1 QAM-only boxes/adapters from Comcast). I don't know if this is happening in *all* Comcast areas but it's happening in a lot of them, across a big chunk of the country.
> 
> ...


Not accurate either about iptv my Comcast has been operating on iptv for years and my cable cards work fine with my tivos as they have since 2013, and even in 2013 my Comcast has used iptv protocol, as the lines Comcast uses in.my area are fiber optic lines owned by Verizon, In my area you need Motorola 2 way cable cards that are red colored, but in the tivo itself it says qam, a compatable cable card that has the correct encryption codes for the area directly from Comcast is all that's needed,.

Many service centers have stopped keeping cable cards in stock so you need to call the 800 number and have them send you a compatable cable card for your area and follow the instructions for pairing, and the tivos will work.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

gabrielstern said:


> Not accurate either about iptv my Comcast has been operating on iptv for years and my cable cards work fine with my tivos as they have since 2013, and even in 2013 my Comcast has used iptv protocol, as the lines Comcast uses in.my area are fiber optic lines owned by Verizon, In my area you need Motorola 2 way cable cards that are red colored, but in the tivo itself it says qam, a compatable cable card that has the correct encryption codes for the area directly from Comcast is all that's needed,.
> 
> Many service centers have stopped keeping cable cards in stock so you need to call the 800 number and have them send you a compatable cable card for your area and follow the instructions for pairing, and the tivos will work.


Even with iptv including all HD channels in your package , as I also own a doccis 3.1 modem that I use with Comcast, the only thing gone is the on demand app for tivo but that is a 99 dollar fix with a roku and you can use the Xfinity stream app which works better than the x1 box anyway, as I rented one for an hour just to link my Netflix account so I did not have to pay for it. any more But the x1 box was slower than even my series 4 tivo which is my oldest tivo I own, if you want an x1 type interface on tivo you can run a compatable tivo with hydra or te4, although ,I do not recomend upgrading any romios or bolts until they fix the bugs in the system which can prematurely wear out the hard drives, and also in the bolts fry out the power sata port in the mother board that powers the hard drives.

Hope this provides more information and steps.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

gabrielstern said:


> Not accurate either about iptv my Comcast has been operating on iptv for years and my cable cards work fine with my tivos as they have since 2013, and even in 2013 my Comcast has used iptv protocol, as the lines Comcast uses in.my area are fiber optic lines owned by Verizon, In my area you need Motorola 2 way cable cards that are red colored, but in the tivo itself it says qam, a compatable cable card that has the correct encryption codes for the area directly from Comcast is all that's needed,.
> 
> Many service centers have stopped keeping cable cards in stock so you need to call the 800 number and have them send you a compatable cable card for your area and follow the instructions for pairing, and the tivos will work.


So you are writing that your TiVo on Comcast is able to view IPTV only channels? It's my understanding that is not possible.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> So you are writing that your TiVo on Comcast is able to view IPTV only channels? It's my understanding that is not possible.


I get all channels All channels in my package including HDTV TV channels and premium channels the only thing I do not get is the on demand channel or on demand from xfinity on tivo anymore but that is an easy fix with a roku device, and the roku ultra is only 99 dollars, and the xfinity stream app unlike the x1 dvr works quickly just like a good tivo like a romio or bolt.

Iptv channels come with Pluto anyway and you can get them for free anyway, also Samsung tvs come with a ton of iptv channels for free also, without paying extra, you just need a good internet connection, you just cannot record the channels. Anyway if you like the x1 dvr look tivos te4 or hydra looks the same interface wize

but I do not recomend upgrading any tivos to hydra due to a bad software patch tivo deployed that causes premature hard drive failure, as in hydra when the devices are in standby the hard drives no longer power down, also hydra can fry out the power sata port connected to the mother board causing no hard drive to work unless you power it externally.

Anyway back to cable cards the best fix would be to replace a cable card with a plastic card the size of a credit card with a microchip that looks like a Sim card, and a plastic adapter case with a microhip reader. That fits into a cable card slot, would solve a lot of issues.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

gabrielstern said:


> I get all channels All channels in my package including HDTV TV channels and premium channels the only thing I do not get is the on demand channel or on demand from xfinity on tivo anymore but that is an easy fix with a roku device, and the roku ultra is only 99 dollars, and the xfinity stream app unlike the x1 dvr works quickly just like a good tivo like a romio or bolt.
> 
> Iptv channels come with Pluto anyway and you can get them for free anyway, also Samsung tvs come with a ton of iptv channels for free also, without paying extra, you just need a good internet connection, you just cannot record the channels. Anyway if you like the x1 dvr look tivos te4 or hydra looks the same interface wize
> 
> ...


One other thing Comcast has deployed internet based cable TV for years, and that is what I was referencing, iptv channels are different and are based entirely on internet connections no cable TV is needed to access them a device like roku can access them without paying Comcast for fluff so they can get you to pay extra to lease an x1 dvr. And Samsung also comes with a ton of iptv channels.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

gabrielstern said:


> One other thing Comcast has deployed internet based cable TV for years, and that is what I was referencing, iptv channels are different and are based entirely on internet connections no cable TV is needed to access them a device like roku can access them without paying Comcast for fluff so they can get you to pay extra to lease an x1 dvr. And Samsung also comes with a ton of iptv channels.


One other thing, I forgot to mention the Pluto TV app comes for free on all tivos from the romio to the edge devices and is on the te3 or classic platform for romios and bolts, but not on series 4 or older tivos, and Pluto TV is free no extra charges and has like 500 channels on it and on demand, it is also on the hydra platform, so fussing over a couple iptv channels if they are even on Comcast that you can tune to without using an app is not worth it, the x1 dvr probably has the Pluto app on it, and that is what the sales guys are referring too or some other iptv app, again trying to do what sales guys do trying to get people to use Comcast stuff, so they can charge extra fees, trust me they have tried to get me for years to use their dvrs, still has not worked,

As for cable cards they have not been manufactured since 2011 most cable companies send them out to be refurbished, including Comcast that's why they charge leasing fees for them each month.
But cable cards are outdated technology they look like something from 1996 cable and satellite Sim cards would be a much better replacement and less expensive. And an adapter case for older devices. Would solve a ton of problems.


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## CC Heck (Feb 10, 2020)

References to using a Roku for Xfinity stream don’t mention that the Roku version is still in beta and doesn’ t include features like rewind live tv, commercial skip (Xfinity version is smart resume not included) unless you pay Xfinity’s DVR fee.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

CC Heck said:


> References to using a Roku for Xfinity stream don't mention that the Roku version is still in beta and doesn' t include features like rewind live tv, commercial skip (Xfinity version is smart resume not included) unless you pay Xfinity's DVR fee.


Yes I am aware that xfinity stream in roku is a beta version, as for the x1 dvr I don't like them at all, and think it is messed up that they ripped off of slightly tivos hydra system with the graphics and ripped off of te3 from 2013 to 2016 and then decided to stop paying royalty fees or trademark fees to tivo around the time of tivo merging with rovi, in 2017.

But again I emphasize you can get iptv channels for free with the Pluto TV app and for free on Samsung tvs.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

gabrielstern said:


> But again I emphasize you can get iptv channels for free with the Pluto TV app and for free on Samsung tvs.


I think the issue throughout this thread is that your definition of "iptv channels" is not the same as the one the majority of posters are using, while you are right on a technical level that pluto is IPTV based, it requires an app no matter where you watch it, it's an apples vs oranges discussion where you keep saying "they're both fruit so they're the same!"

Whereas the initial discussion was started about not being able to watch the channels Comcast has moved to iptv that their newer STBs can handle natively.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

dianebrat said:


> I think the issue throughout this thread is that your definition of "iptv channels" is not the same as the one the majority of posters are using, while you are right on a technical level that pluto is IPTV based, it requires an app no matter where you watch it, it's an apples vs oranges discussion where you keep saying "they're both fruit so they're the same!"
> 
> Whereas the initial discussion was started about not being able to watch the channels Comcast has moved to iptv that their newer STBs can handle natively.


Maybe, but from what I saw in this forum the initial discussion was about someone saying Comcast was eliminating all cable cards and requiring their customers to use their x1 boxes, which is just not true, and my first post was to outline through steps how to workaround it if you move and a sales person usually an independent one tries to make false statements like that or an improperly trained rep would say things like that.

Somehow then iptv channels vs qam made it into the discussion, which is a totally separate issue from cable cards, and while true the x1 box can handle iptv channels and apps like Pluto, so can tivos where the romio and newer tivos also have the Pluto app,

My third point was that if iptv was such a big deal it was a 99 dollar fix with a roku device.

But yes you are correct it's apples vs oranges cable cards are a totaly separate issue from iptv channels and apps.


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## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

gabrielstern said:


> as for the x1 dvr I don't like them at all, and think it is messed up that they ripped off of slightly tivos hydra system with the graphics and ripped off of te3 from 2013 to 2016 and then decided to stop paying royalty fees or trademark fees to tivo around the time of tivo merging with rovi, in 2017.


While I know Comcast illegally used TiVo IP in the past and ended up removing features from there platform because of it, the X1 UI came out many years before Hydra.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

Bruce24 said:


> While I know Comcast illegally used TiVo IP in the past and ended up removing features from there platform because of it, the X1 UI came out many years before Hydra.


If you are talking about when x1 first came out in 2013 that interface looked just like the interface on the romio which ran on te3.

The Grey background interface that looks just like hydra came out in 2017 around the time hydra was in the testing faze.

Comcast stopped pay trademark patent c
Fees to tivo at the end of 2016 early 2017.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

gabrielstern said:


> Maybe, but from what I saw in this forum the initial discussion was about someone saying Comcast was eliminating all cable cards and requiring their customers to use their x1 boxes, which is just not true, and my first post was to outline through steps how to workaround it if you move and a sales person usually an independent one tries to make false statements like that or an improperly trained rep would say things like that.
> 
> Somehow then iptv channels vs qam made it into the discussion, which is a totally separate issue from cable cards, and while true the x1 box can handle iptv channels and apps like Pluto, so can tivos where the romio and newer tivos also have the Pluto app,
> 
> ...


TiVos can only handle IPTV via an app, not by using any of their tuners. It's a subtle but important distinction.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> TiVos can only handle IPTV via an app, not by using any of their tuners. It's a subtle but important distinction.


Right. The discussion above has gotten a bit muddy. There are two types of IPTV: managed IPTV, which runs only on a provider's own internal network, and OTT (over-the-top) video, which runs over the open internet, accessible through any ISP. Comcast makes their cable TV packages available to TV-connected devices, including their X1 boxes as well as Roku and Fire TV, via managed IPTV. You must be connected to Comcast internet service to access it.

Examples of OTT video include things like Pluto TV, as well as Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, etc. While TiVo DVRs have apps for use with some of those OTT services, they cannot be used with Comcast's managed IPTV service, even if they are connected to Comcast internet service. This is why a TiVo DVR used with Comcast cable TV won't be able to access a few of the newest channels that Comcast may have added in your area in the last couple of years. For instance, I've read that the new ScreenPix channels are IPTV-only (at least in some areas) and therefore simply won't show up on a TiVo. Same for Hallmark Drama, Sundance, and QVC 2 and 3. And there are HD versions of lots of channels that are IPTV-only, although the SD versions are still on QAM and therefore accessible by TiVos.

Hallmark Drama channel IP only? - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 3281002


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> TiVos can only handle IPTV via an app, not by using any of their tuners. It's a subtle but important distinction.


It is but remember cable cards are an outdated technology, thats why tivos cannot handle via a tuner, if cable companies switched to cable Sim cards with a microchip and a plastic adapter case and the federal government mandated it that would solve the problem but I believe with the xfinity stream app on rokus and Samsung tvs you can access the few iptv channels Xfinity's has or Comcast, just got a notice that aspire will only be viewable via HD programming and equipment tivos are considered HD equipment, so not sure if that means it is going iptv only.

But I do have 2 rokus with the xfinity stream app I just can't record off of it.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Right. The discussion above has gotten a bit muddy. There are two types of IPTV: managed IPTV, which runs only on a provider's own internal network, and OTT (over-the-top) video, which runs over the open internet, accessible through any ISP. Comcast makes their cable TV packages available to TV-connected devices, including their X1 boxes as well as Roku and Fire TV, via managed IPTV. You must be connected to Comcast internet service to access it.


Adding to the above, an apt illustration of the distinction between managed and over-the-top IPTV is Comcast's own IP-delivered subscriber CATV channels (the former) vs. their Xfinity Stream app (the latter).


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

chiguy50 said:


> Adding to the above, an apt illustration of the distinction between managed and over-the-top IPTV is Comcast's own IP-delivered subscriber CATV channels (the former) vs. their Xfinity Stream app (the latter).


Thanks for explaining in more detail what I have been trying to explain several times.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

gabrielstern said:


> Thanks for explaining in more detail what I have been trying to explain several times.


Just checked my xfinity stream app channels that Comcast has decided are iptv only such as hallmark drama channel are on the xfinity stream app only problem is you can't record from the stream app, again the proper solution is for the federal government to mandate cable Sim cards be sold not leased by each cable company, or provided free just like cellphone companies, and to make devolop and make available for sale a plastic adapter case that the cable Sim card can go into for older devices, than cable companies can switch to iptv only and the adapter case with a chip reader can read all the channels and encryption codes and the tivos can read them, in other words it is not the tivos themselves that is the issue it is the cable cards which is a very outdated technology. Which is from 1996.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Adding to the above, an apt illustration of the distinction between managed and over-the-top IPTV is Comcast's own IP-delivered subscriber CATV channels (the former) vs. their Xfinity Stream app (the latter).


Well, to clarify a bit more, the Xfinity Stream app is OTT only on mobile devices. The Xfinity Stream app used on a TV-connected device (e.g. Roku, Fire TV, Samsung and LG smart TVs) is not OTT, it's managed IPTV (entirely on Comcast's network, does not count against your data usage cap). The distinction is that the mobile app will let you watch some (but not all) live channels, as well as cloud DVR recordings and select on-demand TV content over any internet connection, whether that's cellular or out-of-home wifi.
Get Started with the Xfinity Stream App - Xfinity Support

But the TV-connected app will only work on your home internet connection provided by Comcast, and it provides your entire TV service (all live channels, all on-demand content, and all cloud DVR recordings).
Watching Xfinity channels via Roku stick when traveling - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 3311280.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

NashGuy said:


> Well, to clarify a bit more, the Xfinity Stream app is OTT only on mobile devices. The Xfinity Stream app used on a TV-connected device (e.g. Roku, Fire TV, Samsung and LG smart TVs) is not OTT, it's managed IPTV (entirely on Comcast's network, does not count against your data usage cap). The distinction is that the mobile app will let you watch some (but not all) live channels, as well as cloud DVR recordings and select on-demand TV content over any internet connection, whether that's cellular or out-of-home wifi.
> Get Started with the Xfinity Stream App - Xfinity Support
> 
> But the TV-connected app will only work on your home internet connection provided by Comcast, and it provides your entire TV service (all live channels, all on-demand content, and all cloud DVR recordings).
> Watching Xfinity channels via Roku stick when traveling - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 3311280.


Yes but unless you have an x1 dvr you cannot record from them I have a triple play with Comcast, but use tivos but also have 2 rokus again the solution would be to mandate cable Sim cards and a plastic adapter case with a chip reader and in the adapter case a convertor to so the tivos can see all channels. As qam is going to go away eventually, unless the tivo would be able to read and see all channels just through a cable Sim card and the adapter case with just a chip reader.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

gabrielstern said:


> Just checked my xfinity stream app channels that Comcast has decided are iptv only such as hallmark drama channel are on the xfinity stream app only problem is you can't record from the stream app, again the proper solution is for the federal government to mandate cable Sim cards be sold not leased by each cable company, or provided free just like cellphone companies, and to make devolop and make available for sale a plastic adapter case that the cable Sim card can go into for older devices, than cable companies can switch to iptv only and the adapter case with a chip reader can read all the channels and encryption codes and the tivos can read them, in other words it is not the tivos themselves that is the issue it is the cable cards which is a very outdated technology. Which is from 1996.


I don't know which exact TV package you're on but I can tell you that the main set of TV packages that Comcast has been selling in this area for about two years now (Basic, Extra, Preferred) all come with 20 hours of cloud DVR included at no additional cost. (You can expand that to 150 hrs for an extra $10/mo or to 300 hrs for an extra $20/mo.) If you happen to be on one of those packages, then yes, you can record from within the Xfinity Stream app for Roku/Fire TV/smart TV to your cloud DVR. Now, if you're on a legacy package such as Digital Starter, Digital Economy or Digital Preferred, then you may not have cloud DVR service attached to your account at all, in which case, no, I guess you couldn't record anything from within the Xfinity Stream app.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

gabrielstern said:


> Yes but unless you have an x1 dvr you cannot record from them.


That's not correct. I do not have a X1 DVR (or any Comcast box) and I can schedule cloud recordings via the Xfinity Stream mobile app and the Roku app.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

morac said:


> That's not correct. I do not have a X1 DVR (or any Comcast box) and I can schedule cloud recordings via the Xfinity Stream mobile app and the Roku app.


Same here. But I do have their modem.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Well, to clarify a bit more, the Xfinity Stream app is OTT only on mobile devices. The Xfinity Stream app used on a TV-connected device (e.g. Roku, Fire TV, Samsung and LG smart TVs) is not OTT, it's managed IPTV (entirely on Comcast's network, does not count against your data usage cap). The distinction is that the mobile app will let you watch some (but not all) live channels, as well as cloud DVR recordings and select on-demand TV content over any internet connection, whether that's cellular or out-of-home wifi.
> Get Started with the Xfinity Stream App - Xfinity Support
> 
> But the TV-connected app will only work on your home internet connection provided by Comcast, and it provides your entire TV service (all live channels, all on-demand content, and all cloud DVR recordings).
> Watching Xfinity channels via Roku stick when traveling - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 3311280.


I actually meant to cite Comcast's Peacock app as their OTT IP distribution vehicle, not the Stream. The Stream is a more apt analogy to Comcast's CATV programming since both are channel-based, but you are correct that it is mananged IPTV in the main. Sorry for the brain fart.


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

I logged into Comcast only to find this mentioned in the billing section... and not on the bill PDF! Oh, how overlooked this might be.

*Effective June 29, 2021, QVC HD will no longer be available on channel 692. It can still be found on channels 114 & 1015.*

Below is mentioned in the PDF bill, however.

I also see this: *Effective June 24, 2021, OWN HD (channels 693 & 1464) will change from east to west coast feed*

114 is QVC HD also. So, I don't think it's an IP-only situation. I think they might be freeing up 692 for something to do with OWN. But, I'm speculating.

Posting in this thread because it may be relevant if my speculation is wrong.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

TKnight206 said:


> I logged into Comcast only to find this mentioned in the billing section... and not on the bill PDF! Oh, how overlooked this might be.
> 
> *Effective June 29, 2021, QVC HD will no longer be available on channel 692. It can still be found on channels 114 & 1015.*
> 
> ...


Probably right I can't get hallmark drama yet through my tivo but I can watch it on the xfinity stream app on my roku. Also they have been moving some channels around with xfinity for example I can get some news channel now that used to be OWN and own has moved. Mgm HD seems to be not around on either so I think they are moving things around.

But they need to come up with a good cable card replacement that is Sim card oriented that. Can covert to qam but the truth is iptv still needs to convert to qam anyway to be viewable.


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

gabrielstern said:


> Probably right I can't get hallmark drama yet through my tivo but I can watch it on the xfinity stream app on my roku. Also they have been moving some channels around with xfinity for example I can get some news channel now that used to be OWN and own has moved. Mgm HD seems to be not around on either so I think they are moving things around.
> 
> But they need to come up with a good cable card replacement that is Sim card oriented that. Can covert to qam but the truth is iptv still needs to convert to qam anyway to be viewable.


Back in my 2018 bill:


> Beginning February 01, 2019, MGM HD will no longer be available in Digital Preferred.


Was Hallmark Drama ever QAM? If so, it's awful they made Hallmark Drama an IP-only channel when they could have just left a low-bandwidth SD version for people to watch on QAM.


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## gabrielstern (Aug 19, 2017)

TKnight206 said:


> Back in my 2018 bill:
> 
> Was Hallmark Drama ever QAM? If so, it's awful they made Hallmark Drama an IP-only channel when they could have just left a low-bandwidth SD version for people to watch on QAM.


No Comcast just added it last November but is still only available on the x1 box or xfinity stream app.

I have the package that includes the premier tier which is the super triple play which when I signed up included everything but 7 months later they removed Cinemax and Starz.

My contract is almost up so I may look at fios or see if they can keep me in the same package for 12 more months as a promotion at the same rate.


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