# Tivo's Premeire Pricing



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

So funny people complained about TiVo having too many pricing options and now that they simplified their pricing options they are complaining about the simplified plans.

Awhile back I posted a thread with all the various price & service options TiVo had offered for the Premiere the following is an updated list with *the current price & service options highlighted and underlined*:

I understand that this site now has allot of people who enjoy being TiVo haters - so be it.

For everyone else I suggest you take a look at the 1, 2, & 3 year cost of ownership with the "new" deals. While not the cheapest deals TiVo has offered they are very close to what their prices have been. The current $500 cost of a Premiere with lifetime with MSD is exactly what I paid for a TiVo HD with lifetime 3 years ago again with MSD.

With a $500 cost I broke even (versus monthly) with the TiVo HD at 30 months. With the Premiere the break even point is 27 months. Frankly since the $6.95 MSD monthly went away I have not been able to find any reason to not get lifetime.

*"Normal" available to general public (No MSD or Upgrade Prices) Offers*


*$99 box & $19.99/mo service with 1 year commitment*
*$99 box & $499 lifetime service.* 
$299 box & $399 lifetime service
$299 box & $299 lifetime service with discount code
$299 box & $129 for 1 year service
$299 box & $12.95/mo service with 1 year commitment
$0 box & $19.99/mo service with 2 year commitment
*MSD only pricing (Non-upgrade) Offers*

*$99 box & $14.99/mo service with 1 year commitment*
*$99 box & $399 lifetime service*
$299 box & $299 lifetime service
$299 box & $99 for 1 year service
$299 box & $9.95/mo service with 1 year commitment
*Special Upgrade with MSD Offers*

$199 box & $299 lifetime service
$199 box & $99 for 1 year of service
$199 box with $9.95/mo service with 1 year commitment
$270 box & $199 lifetime
$270 box & $99 for 1 year service
$270 box & $9.95/mo with 1 year commitment

I know some people were able to get some non published deals but I left them out. I am also leaving out the various discounts retailers had/have.

Thanks,


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Did some math for comparisons (numbers are rounded up). Comparing them to the current lifetime costs of $600 or $500 with MSD is interesting.

*Current Pricing:* 
$99 + $19.99/mo service: 
1 year = $339
2 year = $579
3 year = $819​
$99 + $14.99/mo service (MSD):
1 year = $279
2 year = $459
3 year = $639​
*Old & Upgrade Pricing:* 
$299 + $12.95/mo service
1 year = $455
2 year = $610
3 year = $766​
$299 + $129/yr service
1 year = $428
2 year = $557
3 year = $686​
$299 + $9.95/mo service (MSD):
1 year = $419
2 year = $539
3 year = $658​
$299 + $99/yr service (MSD)
1 year = $398
2 year = $497
3 year = $596​
$199 + $9.95/mo service (Upgrade & MSD)
1 year = $319
2 year = $439
3 year = $558​
$199 + $99/yr service (Upgrade & MSD)
1 year = $298
2 year = $397
3 year = $496​
Thanks


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Why wouldn't you have just bumped my earlier thread that had pretty much all the same info in it...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=469819


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

socrplyr said:


> Why wouldn't you have just bumped my earlier thread that had pretty much all the same info in it...
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=469819


For the same reason I didn't bump my earlier thread and add to the bottom of that. I thought having a clean thread made more sense.

There are lots of threads about the new pricing. I wanted one that was just the _current_ facts (as I see them anyway ).

Thanks,


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

The best option, for the masses, was the $0 down--no money up-front--$19.99 per month. That really was a sweet deal and makes a lot of sense for most households. Too bad they don't offer that anymore.

The current pricing structures make clear that TiVo needs the cash NOW! TiVo made Lifetime a bit more attractive to the affluent and former Annual subs, and the $19.99 is maximizing what the per month people pay. It seems TiVo can no longer afford the more generous and competitive pricing, and this is AFTER having been wired $300 million from Echostar. Things may be worse than we thought at Alviso, CA headquarters.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Series3Sub said:


> The best option, for the masses, was the $0 down--no money up-front--$19.99 per month. That really was a sweet deal and makes a lot of sense for most households. Too bad they don't offer that anymore.
> 
> The current pricing structures make clear that TiVo needs the cash NOW! TiVo made Lifetime a bit more attractive to the affluent and former Annual subs, and the $19.99 is maximizing what the per month people pay. It seems TiVo can no longer afford the more generous and competitive pricing, and this is AFTER having been wired $300 million from Echostar. Things may be worse than we thought at Alviso, CA headquarters.


You are thinking too far into it... The new pricing is generally cheaper to get started and doesn't catch up until you are over two years in. Then Tivo knows what every other company knows. Consumers are lazy and will continue to pay the higher rates after, because they have been conditioned that it was normal. If they needed cash now, they would not be subsidizing boxes at retail like this. They would be asking for full payment...
Also note that even though lifetime pricing is now cheaper to the end user, the amount Tivo makes is about the same as before the $99 pricing. All the following are guesstimates. Remember that if a box sells at retail for $300, then Tivo gets ~$150. Add lifetime for $400 and Tivo got $550. Now the box sells at retail for $100, which nets Tivo $50. Add lifetime for $500 and Tivo got $550. Basically, Tivo found a way not to share profit with the retail stores and then decided to pass the savings onto the consumer.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Also with the 2 year plan with $0 down, TiVo had to wait over a year before that account became profitable. With the TiVo at $99, they can turn profitable in that first year. 

There is also less risk and less of a financial hit if people pick one up and stop paying.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Does the new pricing apply to S1,S2 and S3/HDs?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

socrplyr said:


> You are thinking too far into it... The new pricing is generally cheaper to get started and doesn't catch up until you are over two years in. Then Tivo knows what every other company knows. Consumers are lazy and will continue to pay the higher rates after, because they have been conditioned that it was normal. If they needed cash now, they would not be subsidizing boxes at retail like this. They would be asking for full payment...
> Also note that even though lifetime pricing is now cheaper to the end user, the amount Tivo makes is about the same as before the $99 pricing. All the following are guesstimates. Remember that if a box sells at retail for $300, then Tivo gets ~$150. Add lifetime for $400 and Tivo got $550. Now the box sells at retail for $100, which nets Tivo $50. Add lifetime for $500 and Tivo got $550. Basically, Tivo found a way not to share profit with the retail stores and then decided to pass the savings onto the consumer.


Your the first person (that posted) to understand what TiVo was doing with the pricing. The only problem is when someone like me gets a TP from Amazon for $50 to use for parts, if needed on my 4 working TiVos, this is a money loss for TiVo. If this happens to much it could be a big $$ loss for TiVo, as I would guess TiVo is taking about $100 to $150 loss on each TiVo shipped that never gets activated.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> Does the new pricing apply to S1,S2 and S3/HDs?


It appears it does for new activations. Which, if true makes most of those units valueless and not worth subbing again. In fact if true I will say it makes all used TiVos that don't have lifetime (or the old basic service for some DVD units) pretty much valueless and not worth subbing again, including used Premieres.

If someone has an unsubbed TiVo HD it would be interesting to see what you are offered if you called and want to get a sub for it.

Thanks,


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> It appears it does for new activations. Which, if true makes most of those units valueless and not worth subbing again. In fact if true I will say it makes all used TiVos that don't have lifetime (or the old basic service for some DVD units) pretty much valueless and not worth subbing again, including used Premieres.
> 
> If someone has an unsubbed TiVo HD it would be interesting to see what you are offered if you called and want to get a sub for it.
> 
> Thanks,


TiVo should have a special Lifetime pricing for older TiVos like the Series 2, the TiVo-HD now makes no sense for new Lifetime Service because you can purchase a new TP for under $90.


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## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

The T&C's indicate pretty clearly it's only Premieres that are subject to the new pricing. Section 2.1 of the Tivo Payment Plans T&C's refers to "Tivo Premiere boxes", and here's Section 2.2 to handle all other boxes:



> 2.2 *For all other TiVo boxes, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment *(renews monthly after 1 year) or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $499.99.


So the 12.95 rate still appears to exist for older boxes, with a 1-year commitment, and the $499 lifetime.

The MSD agreement, in turn, indicates the $399 lifetime MSD and 9.95/monthly MSD are still available on the older boxes:


> Discounted TiVo Service Fee. The MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT reduces the $19.99 Monthly TiVo service subscription to $14.99 per month, *the $12.95 Monthly TiVo service subscription fee to $9.95 per month*, and the $499.99 Product Lifetime service subscription to $399.99


Of course, if you call CSR with a S3 or THD or whatever else, the CSR may be misinformed and try to push the higher price on you - but by the letter of Tivo's own T&C's, the lower rates still apply to all non-Premiere boxes, albeit obviously with the higher Lifetime price. Were I in that situation, I would be polite but firm that the lower price should be honored as per their agreements.

Given this, I'm not sure I agree there's no value in older boxes purchased used off Craigslist or whatever - the monthly hasn't changed for the older ones, though obviously lifetime is more expensive now for those older boxes.

The Premieres, though - the only value in purchasing used is whatever discount you can get below $99 or $299 for a new box. Or, to be more realistic, whatever prices Amazon has posted for the boxes now - I should say the value in used is simply whatever discount you can get off a new box at the cheapest price, and no matter what, that number is now lower.

Of course both have spare parts values too, which I'll ignore here, but that value is probably lower.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

They definitely don't want to encourage anyone to put lifetime service on anything but a Premiere.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

I didn't realize until the other day that I wasn't eligible for the MSD, I have a TivoHD and an old series 1, both with Lifetime service. I was amazed when I decided to go for the Premiere and the CSR told me that you have to have a TiVo on monthly sub to qualify. Looks like TiVo has lost yet another customer.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

tivowiz said:


> I didn't realize until the other day that I wasn't eligible for the MSD, I have a TivoHD and an old series 1, both with Lifetime service. I was amazed when I decided to go for the Premiere and the CSR told me that you have to have a TiVo on monthly sub to qualify. Looks like TiVo has lost yet another customer.


This should only be the case if neither of your boxes were full price purchases. The part about requiring a monthly box is definitely incorrect.

Did you try online? If you login it should tell you whether you qualify for MSD.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tivowiz said:


> I didn't realize until the other day that I wasn't eligible for the MSD, I have a TivoHD and an old series 1, both with Lifetime service. I was amazed when I decided to go for the Premiere and the CSR told me that you have to have a TiVo on monthly sub to qualify. Looks like TiVo has lost yet another customer.


Because i have one old Series 2 with Lifetime I have MSD available on my account, my other TiVos are TP with discounted Lifetime Service so if I sold my Series 2 unit i would no longer be eligible for the MSD.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Series3Sub said:


> The best option, for the masses, was the $0 down--no money up-front--$19.99 per month.


As one of the masses, I've hated the idea of paying $19.99 a month for Tivo. And one reason many of my friends won't purchase a Tivo, they think the monthly service is just to expensive.


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## tivowiz (Aug 3, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> This should only be the case if neither of your boxes were full price purchases. The part about requiring a monthly box is definitely incorrect.
> 
> Did you try online? If you login it should tell you whether you qualify for MSD.


I first noticed online, then I started up a chat session, the CSR indicated the part about the monthly box to qualify.
I just find it weird that there is no discount for previous TiVo owners, I mean really, I go back to the Series 1, can you be more loyal than that? I will keep the TivoHD since a cable card is cheap, I'll get a roku for the other services instead of getting a premiere. It just makes no sense for me to pony up the cash to tivo on a monthly basis.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

tivowiz said:


> I just find it weird that there is no discount for previous TiVo owners


Well, cable companies give the special trial prices to new customers, and existing customers don't qualify.. so it's not like it's a new thing.

(Though I admit I still don't quite get why you don't get MSD, since you have lifetime boxes.)


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

mattack said:


> (Though I admit I still don't quite get why you don't get MSD, since you have lifetime boxes.)


The only explanation would be if he no longer has his qualifying Tivo active.
I have lifetime on all my Tivos and I can still get MSD pricing.
If I were to sell or deactivate my 1st Tivo (full price lifetime), I would lose my MSD status.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

steve614 said:


> If I were to sell or deactivate my 1st Tivo (full price lifetime), I would lose my MSD status.


Correct, since your ofher Lifetime subscriptions were probably obtained at a discount.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

So here's a question.......

I have a TiVoHD grandfathered/retentioned in at $6.95. It's my only TiVo. Would I be able to buy a TiVo Premiere Q when it comes out at retail and do a "Change TSN"? The option is there, but I don't know what would happen once you enter some form of Premiere TSN.....

Also, correct me if I am wrong, the retail channels now for Premiere.....are they forced to sell service with it now????


Feel free to send me an email.....


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

jlb said:


> So here's a question.......
> 
> I have a TiVoHD grandfathered/retentioned in at $6.95. It's my only TiVo. Would I be able to buy a TiVo Premiere Q when it comes out at retail and do a "Change TSN"? The option is there, but I don't know what would happen once you enter some form of Premiere TSN.....
> 
> ...


No. You would not be able to do it even with the Premiere models currently sold. Even if you were paying, normal(non-retentioned) rates, you cannot do a "Change TSN" mixing Premiere and earlier Series Tivos.

Simply, they have given Premiere a new pricing structure.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

jlb said:


> So here's a question.......
> 
> I have a TiVoHD grandfathered/retentioned in at $6.95. It's my only TiVo. Would I be able to buy a TiVo Premiere Q when it comes out at retail and do a "Change TSN"? The option is there, but I don't know what would happen once you enter some form of Premiere TSN.....
> 
> ...


I have two unit's grandfathered at the 6.95 price and called the other day to double check. The OP was correct, that you cannot change to a Premiere and keep the same price. I was told you can change it to ANY other Tivo *except* the Premiere.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Jstkiddn said:


> I have two unit's grandfathered at the 6.95 price and called the other day to double check. The OP was correct, that you cannot change to a Premiere and keep the same price. I was told you can change it to ANY other Tivo *except* the Premiere.


You could when they first came out. I have one Premiere on the $6.95 plan. Too bad they didn't keep that option.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> You could when they first came out. I have one Premiere on the $6.95 plan. Too bad they didn't keep that option.


It's not so much about it being a Premiere as it is about the inexpensive hardware pricing being subsidized by more expensive subscription pricing.


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