# TIVO lied to MAC users and continues too!



## llarsondc (Jan 12, 2006)

I mean after over a year and all the comments by Tivo company officers and the new deal to make Tivo compatable with a company competing with iPOD when will they just admit they are doing nothing for us. 

Come on it is not going to happen and we have all been lied to. 

The PRE-ALPHA showing of a Mac version of Tivo to Go should tell us how long it will be until a BETA version and a final version will be out. 

It took them this long to get to a PRE-ALPHA version! 

The only thing that makes me fell good about my Tivo purchase is the fact the company is losing MILLIONS every quarter. 

Last time I ever pay up front for a service like this. 

TIVO got my money and now they could careless about my concerns.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Didn't you buy a Tivo to record TV? I know I did. Doesn't it do that?


----------



## bostlaw (May 16, 2005)

llarsondc said:


> I mean after over a year and all the comments by Tivo company officers and the new deal to make Tivo compatable with a company competing with iPOD when will they just admit they are doing nothing for us.
> 
> Come on it is not going to happen and we have all been lied to.
> 
> ...


Bad day, huh????


----------



## llarsondc (Jan 12, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> Didn't you buy a Tivo to record TV? I know I did. Doesn't it do that?


Yes but I bought it to record TV and burn those shows on to DVD.

I was told at the time that Tivo was developing a system to allow this and was assured that Tivo had a long history of supporting MAC and would do so with Tiv To Go.

I was lied to and yes it was a bad day over a year of, "we are working on a MAC version should be a matter of a few more months!"


----------



## JustAllie (Jan 5, 2002)

You'd think that a Macintosh user would know that you don't capitalize all the letters in "Mac."


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Maybe he meant everyone using a Machine Addressable Code? ;-)

Oh, and the MacOS software at CES is working. I had a nice conversation with TiVoShannon and she said she's personally used it to transfer video to a Mac and watch it.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

JustAllie said:


> You'd think that a Macintosh user would know that you don't capitalize all the letters in "Mac."


oh thanks I thought he was talking about network card indentifiers, except now I realize he meant Mac his posts make even less sense.. hhmm. hey you don't suppose he is just pulling our leg or something 

edit - yes that was the other mistake this quick study did - he took PRE-ALPHA SOFTWARE off the display for the series 3 TiVo. most likely from the online video looking at the series 3


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Actually he is probably referring to my phrasing in describing the Mac software at CES as 'pre-alpha', which was my phrasing based on what I was told in the suite and I could be wrong. In further discussions after I'd posted I learned it was more functional than I'd gotten the impression it was.


----------



## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

JustAllie said:


> You'd think that a Macintosh user would know that you don't capitalize all the letters in "Mac."


Good one! 

Our trolls just are not very bright, are they?


----------



## Aeolius (Oct 18, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> Didn't you buy a Tivo to record TV? I know I did.


 I have 3 TiVos. None are currently hooked up, as the SA 8300 units provided by Time-Warner are far superior in everything except the interface. I am also a Mac user.

Call me a "glass half-empty" kind of guy, but I expect more from TiVo than simply recording TV shows. I expect TiVo to integrate seamlessly with my home network, so that I can use my television to display photos or listen to music from my Mac. I expect TiVo to allow the wireless transfer of stored programs onto my Mac, for archival purposes.

Apple may not have released a DVR at MacWorld, but here's hoping that one will debut soon.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Aeolius said:


> I have 3 TiVos. None are currently hooked up, as the SA 8300 units provided by Time-Warner are far superior in everything except the interface. I am also a Mac user.
> 
> Call me a "glass half-empty" kind of guy, but I expect more from TiVo than simply recording TV shows. I expect TiVo to integrate seamlessly with my home network, so that I can use my television to display photos or listen to music from my Mac. I expect TiVo to allow the wireless transfer of stored programs onto my Mac, for archival purposes.
> 
> Apple may not have released a DVR at MacWorld, but here's hoping that one will debut soon.


Your TiVo can display photos, listen to music and transfer .tivo files for archiving. All with your Mac.

For the last one you'll need Galleon. For the other two, Galleon or TiVoDesktop.

The only thing (which is a big thing) Mac's can't do right now is playback of those video files.


----------



## Aeolius (Oct 18, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> Your TiVo can display photos, listen to music and transfer .tivo files for archiving. All with your Mac. For the last one you'll need Galleon. For the other two, Galleon or TiVoDesktop. The only thing (which is a big thing) Mac's can't do right now is playback of those video files.


"TiVo Desktop is...Not compatible with Mac OS X 10.4: Tiger" LINK The current Mac OS is 10.4.4 .


----------



## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

I see you upgraded yourself out the functionality. Bravo to you.

And bravo to you for thinking that all the functions you want are available to you via the Tivo box in some form but the Time Warner DVR doesn't do ANY of them whatsoever. I have yet to be able to transfer a single video off my Time Warner DVR, but do it all the time from my Tivos.

And you can at least get the video off the tivo from the Local Tivo web page on your home Tivo from Mac, PC, Palm, anything that allows you to connect to your tivo via HTTPS.


----------



## Aeolius (Oct 18, 2005)

cynthetiq said:


> I see you upgraded yourself out the functionality. Bravo to you.


 10.4 has been out since what...April of last year?



> And bravo to you for thinking that all the functions you want are available to you via the Tivo box in some form but the Time Warner DVR doesn't do ANY of them whatsoever.


 Granted, my Time-Warner DVR has dual-tuners with cable-based HDTV support. Without that, TiVo is dead in the water anyway. I have no doubt that Apple will release, at the bare minimum, an Airport Express to support Photos/Videos.


----------



## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Aeolius said:


> "TiVo Desktop is...Not compatible with Mac OS X 10.4: Tiger" LINK The current Mac OS is 10.4.4 .


Galleon is, which is why it was one of the apps mentioned. Its predecessor, javaHMO, works as well.

Despite TiVo's note on their web page, TiVo Desktop does work fairly well on Mac OS X > 10.4.3 in most cases, provided you ignore a crash in the installer.


----------



## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

Aeolius said:


> Apple may not have released a DVR at MacWorld, but here's hoping that one will debut soon.


Yeah because Apple is so great  As I wait on hold with Apple Tech Support for repair of an IPOD Nano that was broke right out of the box. The battery would not hold a charge and after paying over $200 bucks for the GD thing Apple still did not include a charger to charge the damn thing. Cheap bastards, I hope Steve Jobs chokes on the $40.00 bucks extra I had pay for the GD charger and thing still would not hold a charge, plus the time I spent dealing with this repair action. Going on 30 minutes now of hold time while I listen to "Please Wait!" over and over again. Apple sucks!

Y-ASK


----------



## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

Aeolius said:


> 10.4 has been out since what...April of last year?
> 
> Granted, my Time-Warner DVR has dual-tuners with cable-based HDTV support. Without that, TiVo is dead in the water anyway. I have no doubt that Apple will release, at the bare minimum, an Airport Express to support Photos/Videos.


airport express to connect to your DVR? or just to any genric ports on any TV?

you still don't have the functionality you gripe about...

edit: And you'll have to spend extra for it like about $99.00 for the Griffin TuneCenter.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

OK, so what did we learn from this? Don't buy a product that doesn't have the functionality you want.

As far as I know, TiVo never (until very recently, I think I read sometime mid-2006 a few weeks ago here in the forum) gave a timeline for Mac support, only that it would be coming. Where is the lie?

/Mike


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Aeolius said:


> Apple may not have released a DVR at MacWorld, but here's hoping that one will debut soon.


But will it interoperate with my Windows PC?


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MickeS said:


> As far as I know, TiVo never (until very recently, I think I read sometime mid-2006 a few weeks ago here in the forum) gave a timeline for Mac support, only that it would be coming. Where is the lie?
> 
> /Mike


thunder points to MickeS


----------



## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> thunder points to MickeS


I think it's kind of funny, if you guys where using only Mac computers I don't think you would be defending TiVo quite so much.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

If I was using a Mac, I wouldn't have bought a TiVo and expect it to work with the Mac, since they don't support it.


----------



## Aeolius (Oct 18, 2005)

MickeS said:


> If I was using a Mac, I wouldn't have bought a TiVo and expect it to work with the Mac, since they don't support it.


 But TiVo's Home Media option did officially support the Mac, initially. There was no reason to suspect any future releases (TiVoToGo) would not have been cross-platform, as well. Granted, since TiVo got in bed with Microsoft, for TiVoToGo, I'm not surprised that a Mac release was cancelled/delayed.

Personally, I do ask for much. I don't want a dual-tuner cable-ready TiVo OR a TiVo with full Mac support. I want a dual-tuner cable-ready TiVo AND a TiVo with full Mac support, in the same unit.


----------



## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

Aeolius said:


> But TiVo's Home Media option did officially support the Mac, initially. There was no reason to suspect any future releases (TiVoToGo) would not have been cross-platform, as well. Granted, since TiVo got in bed with Microsoft, for TiVoToGo, I'm not surprised that a Mac release was cancelled/delayed.
> 
> Personally, I do ask for much. I don't want a dual-tuner cable-ready TiVo OR a TiVo with full Mac support. I want a dual-tuner cable-ready TiVo AND a TiVo with full Mac support, in the same unit.


You shouldn't say anything bad about TiVo here many people don't like it 

If TiVo had no intention of bringing it out for quite some timeit never should have been mentioned. I have no issues with it then again I don't own a Mac but I can understand their frustration very well.


----------



## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

I use a mac... but i also use a PC for my Tivo goodness.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Kanyon71 said:


> I think it's kind of funny, if you guys where using only Mac computers I don't think you would be defending TiVo quite so much.


sure I would be upset, but I would not say they lied to me since they never gave an actual timeline.

I would be thundering on about why did they just drop Mac without saying anything (neither truth nor lie) So have fun with thundering on, I do hope mac support is fully presented this summer for Mac users.


----------



## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

Aeolius said:


> But TiVo's Home Media option did officially support the Mac, initially. There was no reason to suspect any future releases (TiVoToGo) would not have been cross-platform, as well. Granted, since TiVo got in bed with Microsoft, for TiVoToGo, I'm not surprised that a Mac release was cancelled/delayed.
> 
> Personally, I do ask for much. I don't want a dual-tuner cable-ready TiVo OR a TiVo with full Mac support. I want a dual-tuner cable-ready TiVo AND a TiVo with full Mac support, in the same unit.


 a number of my friends have macs and use the desktop still, they didn't upgrade because "it's new and improved" because that would break the functionality they expected and wanted.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Kanyon71 said:


> If TiVo had no intention of bringing it out for quite some timeit never should have been mentioned. I have no issues with it then again I don't own a Mac but I can understand their frustration very well.


I think they did have the intention of supporting Mac with the initial release of TiVoToGo , then they intended to release it soon after, then they intended to relase it soon, then .............. Kind of made it hard for them to say much other than they knew there was no date for it.

I think something or someone screwed up at TiVo(did *I* say that  ) and threw Mac support into some kind of hole it had to crawl out of. Was it technical , edit - or did they just not have the money for it, or was their no cooperation from Apple on some key point, or did some backroom sinister deal deep six it for a while. Who knows, certainly all that has been floated around and beaten into dead horses here in the forum


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Every company has priorities. Mac support has rightly not been a priorirty, beyond the basic Home Media Option functionality, because of the relatively small Mac-exclusive user base in the home environment. That base is pretty vocal though, which is why TiVo said it would be coming.

Beating a dead horse indeed. But it just won't stop twitching.


----------



## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I think they did have the intention of supporting Mac with the initial release of TiVoToGo , then they intended to release it soon after, then they intended to relase it soon, then .............. Kind of made it hard for them to say much other than they knew there was no date for it.
> 
> I think something or someone screwed up at TiVo(did *I* say that  ) and threw Mac support into some kind of hole it had to crawl out of. Was it technical , edit - or did they just not have the money for it, or was their no cooperation from Apple on some key point, or did some backroom sinister deal deep six it for a while. Who knows, certainly all that has been floated around and beaten into dead horses here in the forum


To be very honest I don't think it was anything sinister, I think maybe they underestimated how hard it was going to be to implement it with a good DRM scheme. I think they should have been a little more forth coing and just said hey we are having problems with it and we don't know when it will be done. If you keep telling people it's coming and it never takes a really long time you kind of lose some credibility.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> I think maybe they underestimated how hard it was going to be to implement it with a good DRM scheme.


Especially without cooperation from Apple.


----------



## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Especially without cooperation from Apple.


right, reverse engineering something in the DMCA years is just corporate suicide.


----------



## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I think they did have the intention of supporting Mac with the initial release of TiVoToGo , then they intended to release it soon after, then they intended to relase it soon, then .............. Kind of made it hard for them to say much other than they knew there was no date for it.
> 
> I think something or someone screwed up at TiVo(did *I* say that  ) and threw Mac support into some kind of hole it had to crawl out of. Was it technical , edit - or did they just not have the money for it, or was their no cooperation from Apple on some key point, or did some backroom sinister deal deep six it for a while. Who knows, certainly all that has been floated around and beaten into dead horses here in the forum


Ahhh Zeo, the voice of reason 

There are things that work with the Mac and things that don't. My TiVo has always picked up my music and photos quite fine, but TTG... that's a no-go. But lets face it, TTG is far from an effecient way to archive shows (at this point).

I don't think TiVo did it to purposely "screw" us -- but I agree with Zeo... something happened and the Mac support fell through the cracks. Yup, it got frustrating to wait and wait and wait some more and still not have TTG... and then you just flat-out lose faith in the "coming soon" messages about anything. Trust me... I know.

*Aeolius...*

If you're looking to burn to DVD you can't yet do that with the 8300HD either... but you CAN watch recorded programs remotely (on a laptop or any computer connected to the internet) and do remote scheduling. Take a look at the Slingbox. It's compatible with the 8300 (I myself haven't tried it yet, but my birthday is coming).

There's a lot of stuff coming down the pipe with TiVo soon, so keep your eyes out and fingers crossed. With any luck TTG support for Mac will come soon, and the Series 3 will come out sometimes this year (fingers AND toes crossed!)

And lots of other stuff is coming this year too.. maybe even that Apple DVR (I'd watch April 1st as the next big date... it's Apple's 30th anniversary).

In the meantime... deep breaths... we are probably all ahead in our wants right now compared to where technology actually is... but the masses aren't ready yet. They will be soon which means all this stuff is going to become real easy and real common, along with widely available


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TiVoPhish said:


> In the meantime... deep breaths... we are probably all ahead in our wants right now compared to where technology actually is... but the masses aren't ready yet. They will be soon which means all this stuff is going to become real easy and real common, along with widely available


I am mad TiVo has not anounced the HoloCubo with support for phase shifting between alternate realities when nothing good can be recorded in this one


----------



## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

Aeolius said:


> I have 3 TiVos. None are currently hooked up, as the SA 8300 units provided by Time-Warner are far superior in everything except the interface. .


Do me a favor. could you please do a search on your 8300 on <insert favorite actor/actress name here> and have it record anything it finds for you?

That's the one reason I sent it back to the cable company.


----------



## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I am mad TiVo has not anounced the HoloCubo with support for phase shifting between alternate realities when nothing good can be recorded in this one


When they announce it make sure to sign me up


----------



## heyitscory (Apr 6, 2004)

Every time my computer won't network properly, gets spyware, won't let a program function like it should or crashes and I post about it, some pretentious MacHead posts "shoulda bought a Mac."

Well, Mr. Developers-Don't-Have-Me-In-Mind-Because-I'm-3%-of-the-Market-Share...

SHOULDA GOT A PC!!!


----------



## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

heyitscory said:


> Every time my computer won't network properly, gets spyware, won't let a program function like it should or crashes and I post about it, some pretentious MacHead posts "shoulda bought a Mac."
> 
> Well, Mr. Developers-Don't-Have-Me-In-Mind-Because-I'm-3%-of-the-Market-Share...
> 
> SHOULDA GOT A PC!!!


okay that's a good one!


----------



## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

Y-ASK said:


> Apple still did not include a charger to charge the damn thing. Cheap bastards, I hope Steve Jobs chokes on the $40.00 bucks extra I had pay for the GD charger


Um, you do realize if you plug it into USB, it charges. No need for a charger. My first iPod came bundled with a charger - I think I have used it twice. That's why they no longer bother including them - you really don't need one.

/threadjack


----------



## llarsondc (Jan 12, 2006)

MickeS said:


> Every company has priorities. Mac support has rightly not been a priorirty, beyond the basic Home Media Option functionality, because of the relatively small Mac-exclusive user base in the home environment. That base is pretty vocal though, which is why TiVo said it would be coming.
> 
> Beating a dead horse indeed. But it just won't stop twitching.


MikeS,

Thats all I want is a truthful answer. As they say, Stop pissing on my back and tell'n me its raining!

I purchased my Tivo just before the release of Tivo2Go. I was told by Tivo reps that they would support Mac (not in caps for the freaks earlier who had a mental breakdown) and they pointed to Tivo Desktop as an example of their commitment to Mac OS.

I understand it is not a priority but to tell customers we are working on it just wait for over a year is wrong.

Just tell the 3% and I have heard the 3% make up nearly 20% of Tivo users that we don't plan on releasing anything in the near future.

That would make me happy.


----------



## Aeolius (Oct 18, 2005)

heyitscory said:


> SHOULDA GOT A PC!!!


Hush... or I'll take your iPod 

If you really want to get geeked out, see what I'm trying to do with Home Automation


----------



## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

llarsondc said:


> MikeS,
> 
> Thats all I want is a truthful answer. As they say, Stop pissing on my back and tell'n me its raining!


Did someone piss in the OP's cornflakes today?


----------



## mgmcotton (Apr 16, 2003)

I am a big fan and have two Tivos and two Macs. (Notice Mac is not captitalized.) Unfortunately, Tivo screwed up (yes I used these words) on a number of fronts. They thought that the cable companies would pay huge fees to them but instead the cable companies bought other DVR services and Tivo lost out. Tivo rightly developed TivoToGo for Windows since 95% of computers are Windows and they wanted to compete against Microsoft's Media Center. However, now Apple is gaining market share and is now going to blow everyone away with the Mac Mini as a Home Media Center. The TivoToGo for the Mac is great and I have been waiting for it -but it might be too late. Also, Tivo has to compete against SlingBox. 

Now be happy that you are using the best device for you TV. Who knows in the future their might not be Tivo. But there will be Media Computers for your house that ate their lunch and the one we are waiting for is made by Apple.


----------



## TiVoPhish (Mar 12, 2003)

mgmcotton said:


> I am a big fan and have two Tivos and two Macs. (Notice Mac is not captitalized.) Unfortunately, Tivo screwed up (yes I used these words) on a number of fronts. They thought that the cable companies would pay huge fees to them but instead the cable companies bought other DVR services and Tivo lost out. Tivo rightly developed TivoToGo for Windows since 95% of computers are Windows and they wanted to compete against Microsoft's Media Center. However, now Apple is gaining market share and is now going to blow everyone away with the Mac Mini as a Home Media Center. The TivoToGo for the Mac is great and I have been waiting for it -but it might be too late. Also, Tivo has to compete against SlingBox.
> 
> Now be happy that you are using the best device for you TV. Who knows in the future their might not be Tivo. But there will be Media Computers for your house that ate their lunch and the one we are waiting for is made by Apple.


I think llarsondc made a good point in their recent reply. While Mac may make up only 3-5% of the global market share currently, do you know what percentage are actually TiVo owners? Maybe in TiVo ownership it is lower, or maybe it's substantially higher. It could well be that of TiVo owners 3% use Mac or 25% use Mac. I don't think it would be unreasonable to think the number is higher (even if only slightly)... LOTS of video hounds have Macs in their house... and lots of video hounds like good AV equipment. Mac meet TiVo. TiVo meet Mac.

And Mgm, it's also a valid point that Mac has gained a lot of strength and expected to keep growing. I have believed for a long time that it would have just plain been good business for TiVo to get their TTG Mac support out (as promised) earlier... and not this endless wait. People wanna give the reason as CC support for lack of HD, whether I agree or not I'll give it to ya... okay... but there's no excuse to make people wait over a year for promised Mac support. Just my opinion.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

mgmcotton said:


> I am a big fan and have two Tivos and two Macs. (Notice Mac is not captitalized.) Unfortunately, Tivo screwed up (yes I used these words) on a number of fronts. They thought that the cable companies would pay huge fees to them but instead the cable companies bought other DVR services and Tivo lost out. Tivo rightly developed TivoToGo for Windows since 95% of computers are Windows and they wanted to compete against Microsoft's Media Center. However, now Apple is gaining market share and is now going to blow everyone away with the Mac Mini as a Home Media Center. The TivoToGo for the Mac is great and I have been waiting for it -but it might be too late. Also, Tivo has to compete against SlingBox.
> 
> Now be happy that you are using the best device for you TV. Who knows in the future their might not be Tivo. But there will be Media Computers for your house that ate their lunch and the one we are waiting for is made by Apple.


so many things wrong in this post.
TiVo never thought the cable companies would pay them HUGE fees, but the deals that cable was offering did not make economic sense to TiVo. the cable companies most likely thought TiVo would go the way of Replay and not be much of a presence currently. Yet the battle is still on.

How TiVoToGo helps compete against Media Center is beyond me. It is the series 3 that competes against Media center. TTG did not come out for the Mac because TiVo could not get it done. If they could have it would have come out earlier -
now many early TiVo Adopters used Macs as well. We do not know the percent but I am betting it is well above 5% - TiVo knows the number better I am sure.

How many people are recording things with a Mac mini ? Do you really think the Mac mini will get majority in market share in the DVR market ?

slingbox adds on to a DVR, cable box, output on a TV or a PC with a TV out card and will stream what is output anywhere and send remote control commands back. That is not competition to any of them but a whole new market for a whole new cool product.

mostly you start from this idea that people are wanting to put a PC in their living room and deal with it. 44% of the market do not even have a cable box because it is a hassle to deal with


----------



## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so many things wrong in this post.
> TiVo never thought the cable companies would pay them HUGE fees, but the deals that cable was offering did not make economic sense to TiVo. the cable companies most likely thought TiVo would go the way of Replay and not be much of a presence currently. Yet the battle is still on.
> 
> How TiVoToGo helps compete against Media Center is beyond me. It is the series 3 that competes against Media center. TTG did not come out for the Mac because TiVo could not get it done. If they could have it would have come out earlier -
> ...


If cable wanted to really screw companies like TiVo they would just make their product completely free, no monthly charges or anything. NOT likely to happen though as they are ALL about money.

I think the people who will have Mac mini in their living rooms are the same people who would have an MCE box or a Freevo box or any of the other computer based DVR programs floating around out there, not to mention ReplayTV once their software hits the market. I also think those people are people like many of us sitting here having these conversations and while there may seem to be many of us here I would venture to bet we make up and very small portion of the market. Heck many people cant figure out how to make DVD players work correctly or make their VCR's stop flashing 12:00 and people expect them to figure out a DVR let alone a computer with a DVR in it? I would tend to think thats not ver likely.

Honestly I think TiVo should have just said hey we have issues with our Mac TT2G software we are working on it. I know that would have created a whole flood of what type of issues and the people saying OH NO TiVo is going out of buisness because they can't get Mac to work right post's but at least then people would know whats going on.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> Apple is gaining market share and is now going to blow everyone away with the Mac Mini as a Home Media Center


I could parse that sentence and extract many questions, but I'll just start with asking when is "now?" So far most people have no idea that a Mac Mini even exists, let alone that they should have it in their living rooms...


----------



## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I could parse that sentence and extract many questions, but I'll just start with asking when is "now?" So far most people have no idea that a Mac Mini even exists, let alone that they should have it in their living rooms...


Well that statement isn't quite true a lot of people know that the Mac mini exists, but most just don't own one. Though like yourself I seriously doubt we will start seeing them in all living rooms when/if they make it to market. Though I am sure lots of people here would get one just because it's a new cool toy (me included)


----------



## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

but a Mac Mini would never really be as simple an interface as a dedicated machine like Tivo where I open the box and it's ALWAYS the same way to setup from NY to California. A Mac could be setup an infinite amount of ways and have an infinite amount of reasons why something doesn't work from OS variations to 3rd party plug in conflicts.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> Well that statement isn't quite true a lot of people know that the Mac mini exists, but most just don't own one


Sure. But what about "most people have no idea that a Mac Mini even exists" is not true?

When someone states that Apple is "now" going to "blow everyone away", I'd like to get some reasons for why someone thinks that. Other than "I have a Mac".


----------



## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

cynthetiq said:


> but a Mac Mini would never really be as simple an interface as a dedicated machine like Tivo where I open the box and it's ALWAYS the same way to setup from NY to California. A Mac could be setup an infinite amount of ways and have an infinite amount of reasons why something doesn't work from OS variations to 3rd party plug in conflicts.


Actually as long as it comes up to the DVR portion right off the bat the interface would be just as easy, actually if you think of apple in general I am sure they could teach many people a thing or two about a good UI design.


----------



## Kanyon71 (Feb 13, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Sure. But what about "most people have no idea that a Mac Mini even exists" is not true?
> 
> When someone states that Apple is "now" going to "blow everyone away", I'd like to get some reasons for why someone thinks that. Other than "I have a Mac".


The part that I believe isn't really true is that with all the marketing and popular mainstream press, many people know that the machines exists. Now if they would buy it or use it thats a whole different story.

I think the statements about blowing everyone away isn't based on anything other then what they have done with the iPod and I seriously doubt that will carry over into their other ventures.


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Kanyon71 said:


> To be very honest I don't think it was anything sinister, I think maybe they underestimated how hard it was going to be to implement it with a good DRM scheme. I think they should have been a little more forth coing and just said hey we are having problems with it and we don't know when it will be done. If you keep telling people it's coming and it never takes a really long time you kind of lose some credibility.


I think it's more likely that the current DRM scheme was a stop gap measure. Remember, we were originally all supposed to be carrying around little TiVo Logoed USB Keys for HMO to work. When they (thankfully) abandoned that idea the MS DLL route was probably the quickest solution. Apple does not have a counterpart to that. I think the fact that Mega's photos shows the apple HMO files being plain MPEG may indicate that they have a solution which will likely be implimented on both platforms, but that's just my guess.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

SullyND said:


> I think it's more likely that the current DRM scheme was a stop gap measure. Remember, we were originally all supposed to be carrying around little TiVo Logoed USB Keys for HMO to work. When they (thankfully) abandoned that idea the MS DLL route was probably the quickest solution. Apple does not have a counterpart to that.


yep, quick, dirty and out the door and no regular software can defeat it. Then the few that popped up they disalloed from getting the key so you would have to break the encryption deliberately and thus DMCA is broken and TiVo is covered.



> I think the fact that Mega's photos shows the apple HMO files being plain MPEG may indicate that they have a solution which will likely be implimented on both platforms, but that's just my guess.


my big hope is they just went to watermarking a straight mpeg file so it could be traced back and then let macrovison (or cable labs equivelent) copy protection take care of anyone opposed to that like an HBO.


----------



## FreedMegabyte (Jan 15, 2006)

TIVO lied to MAC users and continues too? Possibly you could see it that way. On the sales pages of TiVo where I first shopped it, Fri., I was lead to believe there was no problem networking Mac OS. Now I find Tiger 10.4.4 is a no go, I upgraded in November! Now I have no iTunes, the main reason I chose TiVo, on my New TiVo DRT400 and am out $$. I am pretty disappointed, this was my birthday present from my wife and she is really POed. But I will hold out before returning it all, to see if they backup what was advertised. I hope they do.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

FreedMegabyte said:


> TIVO lied to MAC users and continues too? Possibly you could see it that way. On the sales pages of TiVo where I first shopped it, Fri., I was lead to believe there was no problem networking Mac OS. Now I find Tiger 10.4.4 is a no go, I upgraded in November! Now I have no iTunes, the main reason I chose TiVo, on my New TiVo DRT400 and am out $$. I am pretty disappointed, this was my birthday present from my wife and she is really POed. But I will hold out before returning it all, to see if they backup what was advertised. I hope they do.


curious to see the link that led you to believe 10.4.4 would work. TiVo, inc should be asked to pull it down if it is there.

In case you have not come across it elsewhere - TiVo is slated to have a new version of desktop out early nmext year, hopefully with an update to make music sharing work as it should on 10.4.4 and they have committed to having TiVoToGo portion working in mid 2006 on Mac.

If those dates will be met are the subject of debate as you can see but if TiVo does give a time frame then they will get the product out, might be late, but they will get the product out.
PS - mid 2006 is the first that TiVo committed to a an actual time for an updated desktop for Mac since TiVoToGo was anounced at the end of 2004


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

TiVo Desktop works fine in 10.4.4 here.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Arcady said:


> TiVo Desktop works fine in 10.4.4 here.


yes but to be fair , you have to read up a little and deal with an install that is not typical of how installs should go on a Mac.


----------



## FreedMegabyte (Jan 15, 2006)

Arcady said:


> TiVo Desktop works fine in 10.4.4 here.


Well, there is a light at the end of this tunnel . Thanks Arcady!
@ZeoTiVo Yeah they never state 10.4.4 is compatible on the sale pages, just a general Mac OS is for Itunes and such.
And I assumed, and you know what that gets me.  
BTW the Linksys USB200M network adapter has a twin that is 2.0 not TiVo recommended 1.0, not compatible. Same model #USB200M, this is mentioned on the schematic pages but not the Accessories links for point of purchase, so buy from TiVo not R.Shk like I did. Guess I should always dig deeper. 
But I do like the service, and look forward to my Mac rockin in the TiVo world real soon. :up: :up:


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I spent a bunch of time hunting around for the "correct" USB200M's and found some, but it is just easier to use a Netgear FA120. (And the adapter is better anyway - no goofy laptop-style connector.)

BTW, to install TiVo Desktop, just run the installer until it gives the error, then force-quit it (command-option-esc) and reboot. It will work fine. I've installed it this way on a PowerMac G4, a PowerMac G5, a PowerBook G4, and an iBook G4. If it behaves weird, delete the "com.tivo.desktop.plist" file from your preferences folder.


----------



## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

DocNo said:


> Um, you do realize if you plug it into USB, it charges. No need for a charger. My first iPod came bundled with a charger - I think I have used it twice. That's why they no longer bother including them - you really don't need one.
> 
> /threadjack


Yeah I did. I tried it on four different computers that I have but the nano just would not charge. Bad battery right out of the factory I guess. I'll try to make the reason why I bought the charger short and to the point.

Bought the IPOD Nano from MacMall for my daughter for Xmas. It came with free engraving (which I should have passed on). Got my daughter's name put on it. Now MacMall will not take it back because it was engraved so basically no refund for me. I'm stuck dealing with Apple and since MacMall never Reg. the thing as being engraved they (Apple) will not repair. They will only replace. So much for the engraving for my daughter. My last ditch effort was to try the charger, no go for that either. So now instead of a nice shinny new IPOD for my daughter on Xmas. I'm probably going to get someone else's refurb with something like "Joe Blow" engraved on it 6-7 weeks later.

I have never liked Apple for many reasons over the years, but I guess I soften up a bit over these IPOD devices. Should have known better. There was a time that I actually supported (hardware repair) and used Macintosh's at work. A contributing factor as to why I left that job 10 years ago. Maybe it's just all that bad karma after all the terrible things I've said about Apple, their Macintosh computers, and all the fanatics that use them.

Y-ASK


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Apple will replace an engraved iPod under warranty. They will even re-engrave the replacement. BTW, Apple does not repair any of them anyway. You get a replacement on any broken iPod. The outer casing on any refurb iPod is always brand new. You will not get someone else's engraving or used case. This is not Dell.

Been through this process myself. Took 3 days to get the new one.

And it is iPod, not "IPOD." Why do you PC guys insist on all caps for everything made by Apple?


----------



## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

Arcady said:


> And it is iPod, not "IPOD." Why do you PC guys insist on all caps for everything made by Apple?


LOL! Yeah, you caught me! I almost went back to change it but for the sake of some humor in this thread I think I'll leave it and thanks for the other info. I sure hope you're right about the engraving and fresh look, but the Apple support person told me differently (at least about the engraving) and MacMall was absolutely no help.

Y-ASK


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Arcady said:


> And it is iPod, not "IPOD." Why do you PC guys insist on all caps for everything made by Apple?


I blame it on the inferior interface of the crappy PC clone keyboard


----------



## FreedMegabyte (Jan 15, 2006)

Arcady said:


> I spent a bunch of time hunting around for the "correct" USB200M's and found some, but it is just easier to use a Netgear FA120. (And the adapter is better anyway - no goofy laptop-style connector.)
> 
> BTW, to install TiVo Desktop, just run the installer until it gives the error, then force-quit it (command-option-esc) and reboot. It will work fine. I've installed it this way on a PowerMac G4, a PowerMac G5, a PowerBook G4, and an iBook G4. If it behaves weird, delete the "com.tivo.desktop.plist" file from your preferences folder.


Thanks Arcady! I'll do that when my new adapter arrives.


----------



## rog (Jan 12, 2005)

TiVoDesktop for Mac OS X (10.4 Tiger) is finally out:

http://www.tivo.com/4.9.4.1.asp

TiVoDesktop version 1.9.2 adds official support for Tiger and apparently includes some stability enhancements. It does *not* offer TiVoToGo functionality at this time, but it's a start.

A bit overdue, I'd say, but still great news!


----------



## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

For what its worth, I'm one of those crazy Mac users, and I just got my first TiVo a few days ago (c:

I'm really really looking forward to TiVoToGo - I'd *love* to transfer some shows to my PowerBook for when I'm out of town. 

Please please please be coming soon!!!

Do they ever release public beta versions of their computer-side apps? hehe


----------



## jimmymac (Nov 6, 2002)

rog said:


> TiVoDesktop for Mac OS X (10.4 Tiger) is finally out:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/4.9.4.1.asp
> 
> ...


Crud. It doesn't seem to work on my new iMac.


----------



## rog (Jan 12, 2005)

Yeah, I guess it only works on the PPC version of Tiger, and *not* on the Intel version.

I think that's really unfortunate, especially since I was all excited about this long overdue update. How funny that we waited a year, only to be given an update that's now, well... out of date again. The irony is almost too much. Intel Mac users will probably be waiting another year. My smile is now turned upside down.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

rog said:


> Yeah, I guess it only works on the PPC version of Tiger, and *not* on the Intel version.
> 
> I think that's really unfortunate, especially since I was all excited about this long overdue update. How funny that we waited a year, only to be given an update that's now, well... out of date again. The irony is almost too much. Intel Mac users will probably be waiting another year. My smile is now turned upside down.


Don't forget that Apple delivered Intel six months early. I'd cut TiVo some slack based on that.


----------



## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Past performance can be an indicator of future performance.

10.4 has been out a year and we're just now seeing a fix. So I guess the Intel fix is scheduled to be released in July of 2007 (that is 1 year from Apple's originally announced "ship date" for Intel based units).

So I guess we shouldn't complain anymore until after July of 2007.


----------



## rog (Jan 12, 2005)

In another thread, TiVoPony has now said Intel Mac support is in the works:



TiVoPony said:


> We're working on a spin to support the new Intel Macs as well. Best guess, 6-8 weeks for that. Maybe sooner (don't hold me to that!). It'll be out when it's ready.


----------



## jimmymac (Nov 6, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Don't forget that Apple delivered Intel six months early. I'd cut TiVo some slack based on that.


Also, since nobody has native software for the Intel based Macs yet. A number of Apple's programs haven't been reworked.

I just miss being able to play my music through the Tivo and my sound system.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Try Galleon. I believe it works on all Macs, even the Intel ones.

Dan


----------



## jimmymac (Nov 6, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Try Galleon. I believe it works on all Macs, even the Intel ones.
> 
> Dan


I have tried Galleon. Have had problems with getting it working and keeping it working. It seems to stop working after a few days. I've given up trying. It's not very user friendly for those of us who aren't very knowledgeable in Unix.


----------



## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

Can you imagine the reaction if Microsoft kept releasing versions of Windows that were all incompatible with each other?
Ma¢ owners get what they deserve. It's really as simple as that.


----------



## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Atomike said:


> Ma¢ owners get what they deserve. It's really as simple as that.


What an axxhxxx you are.


----------



## bostlaw (May 16, 2005)

Atomike said:


> Can you imagine the reaction if Microsoft kept releasing versions of Windows that were all incompatible with each other?
> Ma¢ owners get what they deserve. It's really as simple as that.


Thankfully, you are correct....We get machines that just plain work... I do log on to my office Windows machines a lot though...keeps me amused reading that blue screen that tells me that my machine has just recovered from a major friggin crash...Apparently, Windows isn't quite compatible with itself...


----------



## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

I see you haven't used Windows XP. If you want to bash Win98, go ahead. If you are saying winXP crashes alot, you discredit yourself and show you know nothing of technology. 

I built my high-end Windows machine for $400. What did you pay for your Ma¢?
I've never had a blue screen with WinXP.
I like to USE my computer, not post about what it can't do and who doesn't support it.


----------



## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

Atomike said:


> I see you haven't used Windows XP. If you want to bash Win98, go ahead. If you are saying winXP crashes alot, you discredit yourself and show you know nothing of technology.
> 
> I built my high-end Windows machine for $400. What did you pay for your Ma¢?
> I've never had a blue screen with WinXP.
> I like to USE my computer, not post about what it can't do and who doesn't support it.


If you think you built a *high-end* Windows machine for $400, *you* know nothing of technology. I use Windows all the time and have no problem with it, but 400 bucks will not get you a high end machine.

I do have problems with Windows users who bash Macs, however. And you're still an *******.


----------



## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

I've been a Mac user for about 4 years now. I grew up with Windows. I switched, and can consider myself much happier for the experience. 

Mac OS X is a lot more stable than Windows. And that includes XP. I've used both. I work with both, and I support Windows at work. I keep my systems clean and do my best to keep them stable and efficient. Windows still crashes.

As far as interface goes, OS X is a lot more user friendly. If you've used both, and are comfortable using both, you understand. 

If you've never taken a little time to explore the Mac, then you won't understand. Stop by an Apple Store or an Apple Reseller and talk to someone who knows Macs. Ask for a tour. 

Macs are priced in line with comparably equipped PCs if you factor in the hardware PCs don't always include (bluetooth, wireless, FireWire, etc) and the incredible bundle of software. Factor in the lower cost of ownership (don't have to shell out $50/year for anti-virus software, plus more reliable hardware and less downtime) and it often costs less to own a Mac. 

Plus they're pretty (c: 

If you want to use Windows, that's fine - be my guest. Just don't put down the Mac community or discriminate against us.


----------



## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

Atomike said:


> .
> 
> I built my high-end Windows machine for $400.
> .


Post what you got under the hood of your " high-end Windows machine " for 400 bucks


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

If Apple would sell OS X to run on generic x86 hardware I might use it. But as long as I have to buy over-priced systems to use it, I'll stick with Windows and Linux for my needs. For laptops I can get higher performance systems than Apple, for the same money. And for desktops I'll build my own from components, and I can get much more powerful systems for the same money that way. I run Windows on my laptop - the one I'm on right now - and I really don't have problems with it. Now that VMWare Server is out in beta, I'm thinking of running that to have Linux in a virtual machine at the same time. (I had more old laptop dual-booting.) When I bought this (an HP Pavilion ZV5000) I did consider Apple systems, but I priced out the options and capabilities, and there was no way I could justify the cost for what I'd get. I honestly don't remember what the prices where at the time, this was a high end laptop when I got it - Athlon64 3200+, 1680x1050 display, 11g, BlueTooth, card reader, etc. Just couldn't get that from Apple, and what I could get cost more.

OS X is nice, but the overall value propisition is poor, IMHO. I do have an iPod, my second one, and I was willing to pay more for that, compared to other players, because the overal value - including iTunes, accessory market, the quality UI, etc - made itr worth it. Since I'm a Director of IT Operations and I have to deal with Windows and Linux regularly I can't really avoid it anyway.


----------



## mec1991 (Nov 5, 2004)

megazone said:


> Since I'm a Director of IT Operations and I have to deal with Windows and Linux regularly I can't really avoid it anyway.


And you'd be out of a job if the world used Macs anyway, right? 

Truthfully, I see where you are coming from, but it's the user experience for me. I have a desktop PC which I use to play a few games and well, that's about it nowadays. I use XP at work and have no problems with it. But I use my PowerBook for 99% of what I do at home because I enjoy using it.

It's one of those things a person either "gets" or doesn't. In my case, I don't "get" expensive cars. To me, a vehicle is simply something to go from point a to point b. I think most people regard computers that way.

Hope this made some sense.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

I wouldn't use Macs for servers in any case. I'm looking at going to VMWare ESX Server to get more productivity out of our hardware, and Mac OS doesn't have a solid virtualization solution. Also, head to head on the same hardware, MacOS gets stomped by Linux in server performance. The OS architecture and microkernal message passing hurts it. Anandtech had a nice test write up on that last fall. To be fair, Apple really doesn't push MacOS as a server platform.

My XP laptop is basically a high powered graphics terminal most of the time. I almost always, like right now, have an SSH window open on the left and Firefox open on the right. In addition to those I'll have IM (Gaim & Google Talk) open some of the time, and iTunes, IRC, TiVo software, etc, open as needed. From time to time I play games, VPN into work, etc. For documentation work I use OpenOffice.org For what I need it works well enough, and while OS X would probably do much of the same work, I don't run into as many software issues (like TiVo Desktop). Also, I work for a company that makes a Windows-only software product. (At some point we're likely to move it to a web-based system, I'm pushing for that.)

As an IT director I would love to be able to get rid of all the Windows boxes in my machine room and go 100% UNIX/Linux. But we have some software that only runs on Windows - like a lot of the stuff the engineering team builds, since they're into C#/.Net these days. (Yes, I know about Mono, but I wouldn't use it in production.) I wish they'd gone with Java or PHP or something cross-platform... And for corporate desktops, I really can't avoid Windows - lots of little things people use. Developers want Visual Studio. Sales has GoldMine (I think that's Windows only). Outlook is unshakable. (I'd love to be rid of Exchange/Outlook...) Finance has some Windows-only software. I'm gently pushing for Firefox and OpenOffice.org instead of IE and MS-Office. The former on security issues, the latter on cost. One battle at a time - well, a handful at a time.


----------



## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

megazone - keep pushing for the open standards, they're good for everyone!!!

I, too, work for a company with Windows-only products, but in my own little way I nudge them for standards and cross-platform compatibility when I can. Granted, I'm only in support so my influence is rather limited, but it doesn't stop me from trying!

I've heard the same things about OS X as a server, and myself would likely use a Unix/Linux solution if needed. I do have OS X Server on an old box in my basement, since my own server demands are rather low, and the interface to configure all the server goodies is a lot nicer than anything I've dealt with on Linux. 

Don't be afraid to try out a Mac if you ever need another machine. Consider it an experiment, and an opportunity to learn something new. Even if you decide its not for you, you'll be more familiar with yet another platform - and that always makes you more valuable.


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

To quote from the Coffee House forum rules:


> 4. Threads/Posts on controversial topics such as religion, race, and sex are not encouraged since they usually end up with flaming.and no-one is going to change the mind of a stranger on these type of subjects.


I'm pretty sure Mac vs. PC debates are covered under "religion".


----------



## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

megazone said:


> If Apple would sell OS X to run on generic x86 hardware I might use it. But as long as I have to buy over-priced systems to use it, I'll stick with Windows and Linux for my needs.


First, there really isn't that much difference between Apple and top end PC hardware. If you are throwing together parts, sure you can beat Apple's prices - but then again you have to do much more work to integrate everything yourself - and time is money, even if it's your off-hours time. Apple's industrial design is worth something - to me and many others at least.

And even discounting the minor difference in price, if you really are a director of IT operations then you should fully understand that over the life of a computer, initial acquisition costs are less than 20% of the equation. I have PC's and Mac's at home, and I find I use the Mac's more simply because I never have to worry about the "computer" aspect of things. I pick up the tool, and it just works - because in the end, for me, the computer is a tool. Computers used to be a hobby and I used to enjoy tinkering with them for the sake of tinkering but no longer. I now have other things that I would much rather spend my time on. Fixing and maintaining computers because of inherently poor system design (hardware and software combined) is no longer appealing. Same thing for Linux. We use it for servers, where it has a very good value proposition, but for home uses - other than proving a political point, for me it's just not useful. The majority of the software I want is only available on commercial OS's. And the usability of desktop environments like KDE and GNOME are a joke. Until the *nix weenies quit holding "regular users" with contempt for their desire to not have to master tons of administrative trivia to install, configure and maintain their OS, OSS will never penetrate the desktop in significant numbers. It will remain an exercise for hard-core techno-geeks who think memorizing thousands of points of trivia and mastering hundreds of inconsistencies in design are "fun".

Apple's integrated and well thought out design is worth, to me, the minuscule price difference.

If you were buying hardware for the sake of having hardware just sit there, then your point might be somewhat valid. However, computers are systems of hardware and software - and to me, Apple has the most polished system.

Much like the reason you bought your iPod. Ironic you can see the value for an iPod, but your focus on hardware costs totally blinds you to the same benefits for computers.

And thenightfly42, discussions of platform are religious in nature - heck, this entire forum is an evangelism site for Tivo - quite possibly the only group of tech users who are as fanatical as Mac users  Probably because really good industrial design and a user interface combined with a focus on what people really want creates devoted, fanatical fan bases


----------



## hammer32 (Jul 4, 2001)

thenightfly42 said:


> I'm pretty sure Mac vs. PC debates are covered under "religion".


As an Apple/Mac user since 1986 I'd have to agree with that statement!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> Factor in the lower cost of ownership (don't have to shell out $50/year for anti-virus software, plus more reliable hardware and less downtime) and it often costs less to own a Mac.


Wow, and people say the TCF members have been drinking the Kool-Aid!

The day less downtime has to be counted as an economical advantage for a home user in order to explain a purchase is the day you know you've paid too much for your equipment.

Ande "more reliable hardware" is just more marketing yada yada. If you buy name-brand items, they are not more or less reliable on a Mac than they are on a Windows XP PC.


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

DocNo said:


> Much like the reason you bought your iPod. Ironic you can see the value for an iPod, but your focus on hardware costs totally blinds you to the same benefits for computers.


I'm not blinded to anything. The cost difference is not minor, and I very, very, very have any trouble with my Windows boxes. So there really isn't that great, if any, advanage to MacOS for me. Windows 'just works' for what I do as well. Since I do install and play games from time to time, that's a strike against using Mac OS. And since TiVo is important to me, the lack of TTG support at this time is pretty much a fatal blow against MacOS from my perspective. The things that work in favor of the iPod for me work against the Mac. iTunes is the dominant music store - so there is more 'software' for iPod. Well, there is more 'software' for Windows. iPod has more accessories - generic PC hardware has more options. Some of it is also the codec - after trying out MP3, AAC and WMA, I decided I wanted to use AAC to rip all 700+ of my CDs. Many of the other players wouldn't handle AAC - iPod does, just as Windows will run applications I want that Mac doesnt. So the iPod is more like a Windows PC than a Mac in that it is the dominant market player, has more software and hardware support, and, most importantly, it does what I want and the other platform doesn't.

And note that I'm not a big fan of Windows, not in the least, in fact I think it is a ****ty OS. But it works well enough for what I need out of my day to day desktop. Servers are a different beast.

When I bought this laptop I couldn't get comparable specs from Apple at any price. I did try some friends' Power Books and while they looked snazzy, I wasn't impressed - I especially detested the one button touch pad. (Hell, I wish I had three buttons on my windows touch pad - middle click is very useful in Firefox, I use it all the time on my trackball. (Yeah, I can hit both to simulate, but it isn't the same.)) I don't remember the numbers, but I was shocked at how expensive the top end Power Book was when compared to the this laptop, and this laptop was a better performer. The life cycle cost is practically nil for me. There is little maintenance aside from approving installaton of patches, which I have featched automatically, and keeping A/V up to date - which I would do on a Mac too.

And on desktop machines, the price gap is wider since I do enjoy building my own box, when I feel the need for a desktop. In a work environment we buy units, but for myself I'll take some components from my last box, mix with new components, and make a new box. I haven't done that for several years now, since I haven't really needed a desktop for much, but I'm getting the itch again. When I do it I usually go a bit crazy and built an uber box from components. As for industrial design - there are PC cases with access as good, or better, than Mac cases. Other than that, I don't care one bit what it looks like. I've never been into case modding, fancy looking machines, etc. I tend to use the grey or black box style cases. Functionality is all that matters. (And, honestly, I haven't liked the look of some of the Mac desktops like the old G3's with the 'handles' on the corners.)

The reason I'd consider MacOS X is that I've been using UNIX about as long as DOS/Win. I started on UNIX in '89, and DOS in maybve '87 or so. I'm a UNIX person. I read my mail in mutt, I read USENet in strn, I use procmail to sort my mail, etc. Since MaxOS X is UNIX with a pretty GUI, there is some appeal there.

I think the current Gnome is just fine (I've never really bothered with KDE) for me. I would't say it is for the average user, but I'm not the average user. If it weren't for TiVo and iTunes, I'd probably be running Linux as my primary OS. (I was a Red Hat Certified Engineer, but that lapsed and I didn't bother renewing.) With VMWare Server I'll probably end up running Windows and Linux simultaneously, which seems like the best of both worlds to me.

Macs are fine boxes, and MacOS X is a nice operating system - I'd say it is superior to Windows. But, from a practical standpoint, I can't justify buying Macs for myself - and I couldn't dream of a justification for them at work, other than testing software compatibility for the platform. I'd get farther pitching Linux to replace Windows than MacOS, on cost alone.


----------



## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

OK I'm going to file this one under "agree to disagree". Those of us who use Macs have our reasoning for doing so, and arguments to back it up. Those of us who use Windows and don't want to switch have their arguments too. 

This thread could go on for a dozen more pages, and we'd probably only wind up getting angry and causing a fight - and I don't think any of us really want that. We're here for TiVo and all its TiVoey goodness. 

So while I don't think we should lock this thread or anything, lets try to move on to happier topics instead of contiuing the Mac vs. Windows debate. 

Agreed?


----------



## Chazz (Dec 26, 2005)

Agreed!











macs rule.

sorry.


----------



## TiVo Ninja (Mar 25, 2006)

Waaaaaaaah!! TiVo lied to me!!!!!! They don't state anywhere that they don't support Series1 anymore but I can't get any version of TiVo Desktop to work with it...........not even Galleon! Waaaaaaaah!!   


Aye caramba. Does crying and whining really get Mac users what they want? So many of you have this cult-like smugness when stating how "superior" your product is, yet you make such a fuss when you don't get what you want. Apparently a "superior" product doesn't indicate a superior user. We get it.....you want TiVoToGo..........shut up already. 

Every time I see a Mac thread, it seems to be filled with this level of complaining. I'm sure I'm not the only person who rolls his eyes  and thinks "here we go again". 

/sarcasm

Seriously though, why must there be this constant white noise of continual griping over minor things? Why don't you save it up for something substantial so people would be more likely to listen? I think it would add more weight to individual complaints if you weren't complaining all the time. Otherwise the people who might actually pay attention can't see the trees for the forest.

/rant
Helluva first post. I'll now brace myself for the onslaught of heightened complaining and defensiveness.


----------



## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

really not the nicest way to join the forum, but welcome aboard


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

LMAO. Great first post in my opinion.


----------



## jfelbab (Jan 18, 2002)

Dftt.


----------



## cynthetiq (Mar 13, 2004)

Wild. And tivo released tivo stream which works only with iOS devices. Amazing right?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Whoa. Blast from the past.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

A 6 year old thread? Really?

I think Macs were still running on PowerPC chips when this thread was started. And TiVo was on Series 2. What's the point of resurrecting this thread?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Arcady said:


> A 6 year old thread? Really?
> 
> I think Macs were still running on PowerPC chips when this thread was started. And TiVo was on Series 2. What's the point of resurrecting this thread?


To point out that the new Tivo Stream works ONLY on an Apple product. Shows how much things have changed.


----------



## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

And, ironically, the newest Macs don't have DVD drives.


----------

