# TiVo lost 730,000 Net Customers Subscription in one year



## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

```
TIVO INC.
                               OTHER DATA
Subscriptions
                                    Three Months Ended  Twelve Months Ended
                                        January 31,         January 31,
                                    ------------------  ------------------
    (Subscriptions in thousands)      2010      2009      2010      2009
                                    --------  --------  --------  --------
TiVo-Owned Subscription Gross
 Additions                                46        59       148       187
Subscription Net Additions/(Losses):
TiVo-Owned                               (72)       (4)     (189)      (91)
MSOs/Broadcasters                        (59)     (121)     (541)     (520)
                                    --------  --------  --------  --------
   Total Subscription Net
    Additions/(Losses)                  (131)     (125)     [B](730)[/B]     (611)
Cumulative Subscriptions:
TiVo-Owned                             1,465     1,654     1,465     1,654
MSOs/Broadcasters                      1,140     1,681     1,140     1,681
                                    --------  --------  --------  --------
   Total Cumulative Subscriptions      2,605     3,335     2,605     3,335
&#37; of TiVo-Owned Cumulative
 Subscriptions paying recurring
 fees                                     58%       59%       58%       59%
                                    ========  ========  ========  ========
Included in the 1,465,000 TiVo-Owned subscriptions are approximately
279,000 lifetime subscriptions that have reached the end of the period TiVo
uses to recognize lifetime subscription revenue. These lifetime
subscriptions no longer generate subscription revenue.
```
TiVo only has 2,605,000 users and they lost 730,000 in one year!!!

Why the F can't TiVo's management get more customers!!!

Every year they have a NET lost of customers. Watch, TiVo will lose 600,000 user by 2011 and the total will get down to 2 million.

2011 = 2.0 million
2012 = 1.5 million
2013 = 1.0 million
2014 = 0.4 million
2015 = death


----------



## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Got any more doom and gloom charts to post tonight? You know you could just combine them into one big doom and gloom thread!


----------



## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

Considering the global economic meltdown, I'm not surprised TiVo lost customers. TiVo isn't a necessity for people in a cash crunch.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The 40815162342nd quarterly Death Watch has been engaged, Captain.


----------



## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

Global economic meltdown is true, but please people are buying from good companies. Basicly the if you have a manager who knows how to cut the deals you can win business. Mark Hurd knows how to get the deal. Micheal Dell knows how to get the deal. Steve Jobs know how to get the deal.

Hewlett-Packard Company is getting money
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=HPQ&annual

Dell is getting money
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=DELL&annual

Apple at All-Time Highest Revenue and Profit
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/01/25results.html

So what the F is Tom Rogers doing in the drivers seat!?!?! Tom Rogers looks great on paper, but where are the freaking deals!! Comcast deal was a cloak and dagger, trick on TiVo. Shame on TiVo. What about Nero TiVo, what the F was that, now it's gone.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Note that over 3/4 of those net lost subs are the ancient DirecTV standard def box subs. I frankly find it amazing that more DirecTV subs have not been lost - the remaining ones are mostly over 6 years old!

But where is your corresponding graph of profitability? Rogers was hired to find some way to make the company profitable, because it certainly couldn't continue on its path of relying on expansion in the stand-alone market. At the end of the peaks in your graph, it was spending way over $300 to get each new sub. And the subs were not increasing nearly fast enough to keep the company afloat. TiVo needs the ad revenue to be profitable long-term, and that means an order of magnitude more subs. TiVo tried spending their way to more subs, and people still were not buying free TiVos. TiVo had to return to at least close to breaking even, and that's what they've done.

So the sub growth in the future has come from the MSO's, and that's exactly what Rogers has been pursuing, and has had some success already. There's a lot more hope on the horizon now than there was. 

I would note that you, MediaLivingRoom, are one of the worst offenders in wanting TiVo to give us more, more, more without having any way to pay for it. You have no credibility in talking about the financial picture.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

appleye1 said:


> Got any more doom and gloom charts to post tonight? You know you could just combine them into one big doom and gloom thread!


it seems MediaLivingRoom has decided to go troll on us. really just makes him look silly and lose any impact he might have had in an organized single thread. Oh well - his loss.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The *4*0*815162342*nd quarterly Death Watch has been engaged, Captain.


I see what you did there. :up:


----------



## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

don't worry Tivo, I will save you!

I am about to buy my first Tivo, and I'm going all out, XL and liftetime... 


so it's kinda like they only lost 729,999 subscriptions..


----------



## AandFDakota2001 (Sep 6, 2008)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> TiVo only has 2,605,
> 2011 = 2.0 million
> 2012 = 1.5 million
> 2013 = 1.0 million
> ...


These numbers don't take into account the new revenue that TiVo will be generating from their eventual launch of the new DirecTV TiVo and continuing expansion of Comcast DVRs with TiVo software, not to mention their alliance with RCN. So why such a pessimistic outlook MediaLivingRoom? If you don't like TiVo, no one is forcing you to subscribe...

Justin


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Congrats....you just made it to my ignore list. You should be honored...


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I don't understand why people who hate a company and its products so much spend so much time posting in a forum dedicated to that company's products.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> TiVo needs the ad revenue to be profitable long-term, and that means an order of magnitude more subs.


They are going the wrong direction if ad revenue is what they are looking for. Fewer subs = less money. Frankly I think that once all the law suits shake out TiVo will have a revenue stream from licensing rather than from direct subs. That may very well be the true death of TiVo as a product even though the company could continue on as a holding company.

The bottom line for me isn't TiVo's welfare in the financial arena; I want a product that works, is affordable, and has a rich feature set.


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Uh, it is pretty clear to me when TiVo has a new DirecTV DVR available that TiVo subscriptions will go up and 2010 will be a net gain of several hundred thousand. The new Premier TiVo will help some as well and we don't even need to mention the likely settlement of the Dish Network suit this year that will provide resources to improve services and products. This is hardly an accurate portrayal of TiVo's future being provided here by the OP and I don't think could be more wrong than it is.

Chris


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Chris Gerhard said:


> Uh, it is pretty clear to me when TiVo has a new DirecTV DVR available that TiVo subscriptions will go up and 2010 will be a net gain of several hundred thousand.
> 
> Chris


I am not so sure about the DirecTV TiVo, if they charge a premium over their own DVR I think the number of people willing to pay will be small. I would love to try out the new HD TiVo on DirecTV but I am not willing to pay $5 a month more for it. The current DirecTV DVR is perfectly fine for my needs.


----------



## whynot83706 (Jul 27, 2006)

Mike-Mike said:


> don't worry Tivo, I will save you!
> 
> I am about to buy my first Tivo, and I'm going all out, XL and liftetime...
> 
> so it's kinda like they only lost 729,999 subscriptions..


Make that two  I have decided to pre-order to Tivo with Lifetime .


----------



## whynot83706 (Jul 27, 2006)

bigpuma said:


> I am not so sure about the DirecTV TiVo, if they charge a premium over their own DVR I think the number of people willing to pay will be small. I would love to try out the new HD TiVo on DirecTV but I am not willing to pay $5 a month more for it. The current DirecTV DVR is perfectly fine for my needs.


I think its in DirecTV interest to get more customers so charging more than normal DVR fee is highly unlikely.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Congrats....you just made it to my ignore list. You should be honored...


uh -oh MediaLivingRoom is losing subscribers


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

bigpuma said:


> I am not so sure about the DirecTV TiVo, if they charge a premium over their own DVR I think the number of people willing to pay will be small. I would love to try out the new HD TiVo on DirecTV but I am not willing to pay $5 a month more for it. The current DirecTV DVR is perfectly fine for my needs.


TiVo's new deal with DirecTV will net TiVo significantly higher revenue per DTV sub.

So if they lost say 500K DirecTV subs, they may just need to pick up 250K new subs to make up the revenue lost.


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Drop in DirecTV subs is expected and is in line with hard drive life expectancy. In couple of years there will be very few old DirecTivos that are still functional (and most of them will be in hands of forum members who know how to replace hard drive).
That is not the major issue. Major problem TiVo has is a loss of TiVo owned subs. Out of about 975K recurring subs (lifetimes don't count - they obviously not going to cancel) 118K users canceled subs just last quarter alone.
That is huge churn rate and with only 46K unit sold during holiday season prospects of TiVo picking up net SA subs are dim.


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

whynot83706 said:


> I think its in DirecTV interest to get more customers so charging more than normal DVR fee is highly unlikely.


Huh? I don't follow your logic. They will definitely be charging more than the standard DVR fee for the premium Tivo DVR version.

Keep in mind that every one they will try to talk into the higher priced Tivo upgrade have never had a real Tivo before.

If all they do is upgrade existing Directivo users then they haven't gained anything.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

They will also get customers back who left when there was no HD DirecTivo available when they were ready to go HD.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

samo said:


> Drop in DirecTV subs is expected and is in line with hard drive life expectancy. In couple of years there will be very few old DirecTivos that are still functional (and most of them will be in hands of forum members who know how to replace hard drive).
> That is not the major issue. Major problem TiVo has is a loss of TiVo owned subs. Out of about 975K recurring subs (lifetimes don't count - they obviously not going to cancel) 118K users canceled subs just last quarter alone.
> That is huge churn rate and with only 46K unit sold during holiday season prospects of TiVo picking up net SA subs are dim.


agreed on the older hardware dropping off but TiVo gives different guidance going forward. I assume they tie that into the (finally) smart idea of giving 'upgraders' a discount on new sub versus just forcing the user to move a sub. Also they were big on RCN happening this year to further increase MSO subs.



from earnings call said:


> Now, turning to our fourth quarter key metrics, in line with our expectation, our gross subscription additions were 46,000 as compared to 59,000 in the year-ago quarter. Churn increased to 2.6% and almost all of the increases fell into two buckets, lifetime subscribers that became fully amortized and no longer connect to our service and subscribers that had three-year commitments expire.
> 
> Virtually all of the subscribers in each of these categories had older hardware platforms that did not provide the features that are proving critical to our future marketing effort. As an example, we see very little churn in our HD base. We are improving the level of subscribers who are taking advantage of our upgrade program.


----------



## OLdDog (Dec 15, 2001)

Kablemodem said:


> I don't understand why people who hate a company and its products so much spend so much time posting in a forum dedicated to that company's products.


Well, one reason is that comments like these can drive the stock prices down and that can make shorting the stock quite profitable.

Talk of stock and profitability was banned for a long time on these forums and threads like this would be quickly deleted but now the forums are more open and talk like this is allowed so there is a place for the TiVo haters to vent.

It does look bad for TiVo from the statistics posted but remember there are Lies, Damned Lies and statistics. One of the easiest things to do is to present a company in a bad light by presenting just a small part of there financial data.

I would tend to compliantly ignore any posting that talks about the demise of a company and, if the health of the company is important to me, get info from real financial sources and act on that rather than arguing on a forum that is NOT a financial source.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

OLdDog said:


> Well, one reason is that comments like these can drive the stock prices down and that can make shorting the stock quite profitable.
> 
> Talk of stock and profitability was banned for a long time on these forums and threads like this would be quickly deleted but now the forums are more open and talk like this is allowed so there is a place for the TiVo haters to vent.
> 
> ...


Well said.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

OLdDog said:


> I would tend to compliantly ignore any posting that talks about the demise of a company and, if the health of the company is important to me, get info from real financial sources and act on that rather than arguing on a forum that is NOT a financial source.


true, but many come here just looking for info on the product and company as aprt of a buy the product decision. Not many are going to crunch earnings reports for such a decision so it is better if a larger more accurate whole picture is formed in these threads versus just letting the haters go off on whatever tangent suits their bias.


----------



## OLdDog (Dec 15, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> true, but many come here just looking for info on the product and company as aprt of a buy the product decision. Not many are going to crunch earnings reports for such a decision so it is better if a larger more accurate whole picture is formed in these threads versus just letting the haters go off on whatever tangent suits their bias.


I agree but I also think these forums were better when they were tightly moderated and threads like this one did not exist.

The info has always been available but forums like this act better when the info is limited to discussions of the use and maintenance of the product. Discussions of the financial health of the company really belong elsewhere.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

OLdDog said:


> I agree but I also think these forums were better when they were tightly moderated and threads like this one did not exist.


oh - OK - I would be fine with that.


----------



## whynot83706 (Jul 27, 2006)

HiDefGator said:


> Huh? I don't follow your logic. They will definitely be charging more than the standard DVR fee for the premium Tivo DVR version.
> 
> Keep in mind that every one they will try to talk into the higher priced Tivo upgrade have never had a real Tivo before.
> 
> If all they do is upgrade existing Directivo users then they haven't gained anything.


I think that higher DVR fee or DTV Tivo fee may be appealing to current DTV-Tivo owners since they like DirecTV/Tivo and they would like to upgrade their boxes. At the same time if you are charging more you will not get average Joe to buy since average consumer does not care if he/she is getting Tivo or something else as long as it gets DVR and pays less. So I dont think they will be trying really hard to get new costomers into Tivo because they will have to share proceeds with Tivo. I am not sure how many Tivo subscribers they have but they would definettly benefit since they would lock people in new two year agreement.


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

bigpuma said:


> I am not so sure about the DirecTV TiVo, if they charge a premium over their own DVR I think the number of people willing to pay will be small. I would love to try out the new HD TiVo on DirecTV but I am not willing to pay $5 a month more for it. The current DirecTV DVR is perfectly fine for my needs.


It may not result in millions of TiVo subscribers but of the 18 million or so DirecTV subscribers at any given time, at least several hundred thousand are going to choose TiVo. I dropped my subscription last year but I had lifetime DVR service which covered any DVR with DirecTV, TiVo or not, and I am certain there are still many accounts like mine.

Chris


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Chris Gerhard said:


> It may not result in millions of TiVo subscribers but of the 18 million or so DirecTV subscribers at any given time, at least several hundred thousand are going to choose TiVo. I dropped my subscription last year but I had lifetime DVR service which covered any DVR with DirecTV, TiVo or not, and I am certain there are still many accounts like mine.
> 
> Chris


Out of 18 million only about 1.5 million even know what a TiVo is. Most of the 1.5 million have DirecTV HD DVR already just because it is a only game in town. Most advantages that are often sited for TiVo (Netflix, Amazon, etc) will most likely be nullified by DirecTV - they don't need any competition to PPV. The Kids Zone, suggestions and other small operating differences are not enough to switch from well working mature DVR to something unknown and pay extra for it. The only way I can see TiVo making a dent with DirecTV DVR is if new DirecTV hardware with built-in DECA will be only available with TiVo software.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

samo said:


> The only way I can see TiVo making a dent with DirecTV DVR is if new DirecTV hardware with built-in DECA will be only available with TiVo software.


yeah - those DirectTiVos were such a failure last time around


----------



## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yeah - those DirectTiVos were such a failure last time around


For a while they were the only game in town on DirecTV so I don't see what this statement has to do with what he said.


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yeah - those DirectTiVos were such a failure last time around


I don't understand your sarcasm. Yes, DirecTiVo were huge success for most part because they were only game in town left after MS discontinued Ultimate TV. And if they are only game in town for DECA DVRs they will be a huge success too. I will buy one regardless of the software it comes with just to simplify my setup.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bigpuma said:


> For a while they were the only game in town on DirecTV so I don't see what this statement has to do with what he said.


even after other DVRs were available they still sold well - clearly above the %s for other MSO DVRs at the time. Those DVRs sold a lot of DirecTV subs. The only real thing making people give up the DirectTiVo was HD or failing hardware. So I do not forsee the gloom.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> ```
> TIVO INC.
> OTHER DATA
> Subscriptions
> ...


"..279,000 lifetime subscriptions that have reached the end of the period TiVo
uses to recognize lifetime subscription revenue. These lifetime
subscriptions no longer generate subscription revenue.."

How many years does a Lifetime subscription take to reach this point?


----------



## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ZeoTiVo said:


> even after other DVRs were available they still sold well - clearly above the %s for other MSO DVRs at the time. Those DVRs sold a lot of DirecTV subs. The only real thing making people give up the DirectTiVo was HD or failing hardware. So I do not forsee the gloom.


No they didn't. Dish had higher DVR sales than DirecTV with less total subscribers. After DirecTV introduced R-15 all remaining R-10s were sold for free ($100 with $100 rebate, I got two of them at that time). And after they sold out within about 6 months all new DVR subs were DirecTV own models.
It has nothing to do with gloom, contrary to popular believe on this board most people subscribe to provider based on price and availability of programming, not because of what type of DVR is offered.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> "..279,000 lifetime subscriptions that have reached the end of the period TiVo
> uses to recognize lifetime subscription revenue. These lifetime
> subscriptions no longer generate subscription revenue.."
> 
> How many years does a Lifetime subscription take to reach this point?


Further down was this:



> Effective November 1, 2008, we extended the period we use to recognize product lifetime subscription revenues from 54 months to 60 months for all product lifetime subscriptions acquired on or before October 31, 2007. We now amortize all product lifetime subscriptions over a 60 month period.


----------



## JTalbert (Jan 1, 2001)

Yes Tivo has a new deal with Direct TV, and have a deal with comcastic and RCN . I know this has probably been talked about before. What ever happened to the deal Tivo did with Cox? 

In the future, I can see Tivo not doing HW anymore and just licensing their SW to cable/sat companies. I am losing, if not have lost faith in the HW. But if Tivo did not exist anymore in any manner you would see a grown man cry. I have been a Tivo customer for almost 10 years, but the reality is, there is so much they can do with new HD.

They have one more trick up the sleeve for Series 5 Tivo. Tivo guide in 3D! The guild will pop out and slap you across the face


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

JTalbert said:


> Yes Tivo has a new deal with Direct TV, and have a deal with comcastic and RCN . I know this has probably been talked about before. What ever happened to the deal Tivo did with Cox?
> 
> In the future, I can see Tivo not doing HW anymore and just licensing their SW to cable/sat companies. I am losing, if not have lost faith in the HW. But if Tivo did not exist anymore in any manner you would see a grown man cry. I have been a Tivo customer for almost 10 years, but the reality is, there is so much they can do with new HD.
> 
> They have one more trick up the sleeve for Series 5 Tivo. Tivo guide in 3D! The guild will pop out and slap you across the face


It would be worse for me and some of the other folks who choose not to pay for cable, and are (primarily) OTA.


----------



## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

on tivo.com there is a coming soon thing about Cox:

In the works&#8230; Cox cable DVRs with TiVo service
TiVo's downloadable software will allow Cox to deliver the TiVo&#174; service in Cox subscriber homes without replacing existing DVR boxes, and without an install appointment. In this way, current Cox DVR customers who wish to enjoy the award-winning TiVo service will quickly and easily add the benefits of TiVo to their DVR subscription. Check back here for updates.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

samo said:


> Dish had higher DVR sales than DirecTV with less total subscribers.


see another TiVo design that sold well on dbs


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

JTalbert said:


> In the future, I can see Tivo not doing HW anymore and just licensing their SW to cable/sat companies.


actually TiVo is just tired of selling the HW. TiVo loves to design the HW and the software to go on it as a package.
if you read the earnings call transcript - TiVo CEO makes a big deal out of having the hardware and software ready to go for any MSO - all they need to do is tweak the flash HD to account for the content the MSO wants to aggregate on one box. TiVo just wants the MSO to deal with getting the subscriber and any HW RMA issues.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

samo said:


> That is not the major issue. Major problem TiVo has is a loss of TiVo owned subs. Out of about 975K recurring subs (lifetimes don't count - they obviously not going to cancel) 118K users canceled subs just last quarter alone.
> That is huge churn rate and with only 46K unit sold during holiday season prospects of TiVo picking up net SA subs are dim.


2.6% churn for owned subscriptions is a serious issue. TiVo has been standing pat on their current position understanding that they could not make headway against cable DVRs in the current market. That has been reflected in their owned churn. Now they're pinning their hopes for owned subscriptions on the convergence box angle with marketing funded by partners like Best Buy. We may see some impact from the new box next quarter, but we probably won't see the impact of Best Buy until the end of the year.

One correction - lifetime subscriptions do count as cancellations when the lifetime subscription revenue is fully recognized and lifetime unit does not contact TiVo for six months. From the conference call:


> Churn increased to 2.6% and almost all of the increases fell into two buckets, lifetime subscribers that became fully amortized and no longer connect to our service and subscribers that had three-year commitments expire.
> 
> Virtually all of the subscribers in each of these categories had older hardware platforms that did not provide the features that are proving critical to our future marketing effort. As an example, we see very little churn in our HD base. We are improving the level of subscribers who are taking advantage of our upgrade program.


One positive that I haven't seen mentioned here is that the 59k loss of MSO subscriptions is their lowest in three years. They attributed that to both lower DirecTV churn and some growth in their other MSO offerings. So there's some hope those losses will moderate until these new deals come online.


----------



## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

Kablemodem said:


> I don't understand why people who hate a company and its products so much spend so much time posting in a forum dedicated to that company's products.


For the exact same reason that TiVo lovers, shills, fanboys, and shareholders spend so much time here. Don't we all want potential buyers to be FULLY informed about TiVo's product? 

___


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

nrc said:


> One correction - lifetime subscriptions do count as cancellations when the lifetime subscription revenue is fully recognized and lifetime unit does not contact TiVo for six months. From the conference call:


How does TiVo account for a Lifetime TiVo that is fully recongnized* BUT *still connected ? or did you mean for the word OR not AND between recognized and lifetime unit ?


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Fixer said:


> For the exact same reason that TiVo lovers, shills, fanboys, and shareholders spend so much time here. Don't we all want potential buyers to be FULLY informed about TiVo's product?
> 
> ___


You need help.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

nrc said:


> 2.6% churn for owned subscriptions is a serious issue.
> 
> One correction - lifetime subscriptions do count as cancellations when the lifetime subscription revenue is fully recognized and lifetime unit does not contact TiVo for six months. From the conference call:


yes the quote you have from the earnings call i had posted lower- TiVo is losing subs but the churn rate all by itself is not reflective of their progess to profitablity. Also MSOs are poised for a significant uptick in 2010.

I do not think TiVo is counting on any real increase in owned subs.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Fixer said:


> For the exact same reason that TiVo lovers, shills, fanboys, and shareholders spend so much time here. Don't we all want potential buyers to be FULLY informed about TiVo's product?
> 
> ___


I wonder if the liver council has a forum - I really hate liver


----------



## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

Kablemodem said:


> You need help.


So, someone NOT obsessed with an inanimate object needs help? I wonder which psychological disorder that would be? Interesting... 



ZeoTiVo said:


> I wonder if the liver council has a forum - I really hate liver


I love liver. If you find a forum, let me know so I can go over there and make 21,000 posts on how great liver is! 

___


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Fixer said:


> I love liver. If you find a forum, let me know so I can go over there and make 21,000 posts on how great liver is!
> 
> ___


what - I have lots of posts on how I hate Haters


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Lets be honest there lots of reasons for Tivo to be losing subscribers, however many of them may have nothing to do with people actually wanting to leave Tivo or being dissatisfied with Tivo.


People with Direct Tivos that have Hardware failures
People dropping Direct TV that have direct Tivos
People with Direct Tivos Upgrading to HD
People with Series 1 & 2 TiVos using them for SAT who upgrade to HD
People with multiple Series 1 or 2 TiVos replacing them with a lesser number of TIVo HDs

All of the above could reflect a loss of subs but not indicate a dissatisfaction with Tivo. What I would find interesting is what is happening with the number of households that a Tivo is in.

I think we all know that the transition from analog to digital and SD to HD has caused issues that are beyond Tivo's control.

The question is; at what level will subscriber numbers level off and is there a way for Tivo to be profitable at what ever that level ends up being?

I have know way of knowing the answer however I believe that TiVo is working hard to try and find a solution.

I think they have a very good product, I know that many think that the price is to high but most of us on this broad can buy a new TiVo premier with lifetime for $500. Compare what we are getting now and what it costs to DVRs from TiVos growth years and I think the cost seems pretty low. Heck even when TiVo was giving away Series 2 Tivos I would have had to spend $600 for lifetime on 2 of them to get the dual tuner function I get with a TiVo premier and lifetime for $500.

Just my 2 cents


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> All of the above could reflect a loss of subs but not indicate a dissatisfaction with Tivo. What I would find interesting is what is happening with the number of households that a Tivo is in.


I think you may be focused too much on the wrong side of the equation. There are lots of reasons why people might cancel Tivo and that may not be the problem. The problem is that almost no one new is signing up for Tivo today.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

lessd said:


> How does TiVo account for a Lifetime TiVo that is fully recongnized* BUT *still connected ? or did you mean for the word OR not AND between recognized and lifetime unit ?


If the lifetime subscription is fully recognized but is still active (ie, connected in the last six months) then it still counts as a subscription. Effectively those subscribers are paying $0 per month, which would show up as lower average monthly revenue per owned subscription.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

nrc said:


> If the lifetime subscription is fully recognized but is still active (ie, connected in the last six months) then it still counts as a subscription. Effectively those subscribers are paying $0 per month, which would show up as lower average monthly revenue per owned subscription.


Yes, that's right. Before that time it counts as a subscription, but those subscribers are paying (for example) $399 / 60 months = $7.33 per month and that's what is averaged in to the ARPU.


----------



## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

This should help TiVo a bit.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/11/tivo-returning-to-the-uk-thanks-to-partnership-with-virgin-media/


----------



## Chris2519 (Mar 14, 2010)

Just joined this forum due to a problem I'm having with Tivo that I'm rather upset about, and reading through other people's complaints. I am awed (and somewhat appalled) by the number of people who cannot take criticism of their beloved little boxes and the company that makes them. Tivo makes a good product and pioneered an industry, no question. But I'm sorry, their customer service policies suck. They are borderline autistic in terms of understanding their customers needs. Their policies are ironclad with no room for interpretation or discretion on the part of their managers. It's not like Time Warner is much better, but you know what? I'm ebaying my three Series 3's and going with the freebie generic HD DVRS, because at least I won't be paying them $300+ a year for the privilege of indifferent customer service and equipment that breaks down. Instead, I'll get equally crappy and indifferent customer service for free!! Given the experience I had with them today, I am actually excited to become Lost Customer # 730,001 !


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Chris2519 said:


> Just joined this forum due to a problem I'm having with Tivo that I'm rather upset about, and reading through other people's complaints. I am awed (and somewhat appalled) by the number of people who cannot take criticism of their beloved little boxes and the company that makes them. Tivo makes a good product and pioneered an industry, no question. But I'm sorry, their customer service policies suck. They are borderline autistic in terms of understanding their customers needs. Their policies are ironclad with no room for interpretation or discretion on the part of their managers. It's not like Time Warner is much better, but you know what? I'm ebaying my three Series 3's and going with the freebie generic HD DVRS, because at least I won't be paying them $300+ a year for the privilege of indifferent customer service and equipment that breaks down. Instead, I'll get equally crappy and indifferent customer service for free!! Given the experience I had with them today, I am actually excited to become Lost Customer # 730,001 !


That's how it works. By morning there will be 5 posts telling you goodbye.  Plenty of people here can only look at it one way. Perhaps I'm guilty as well, but I do *try* to see things from other viewpoints.


----------



## Chris2519 (Mar 14, 2010)

I've trolled the forums and seen the multitude of "Good riddance" and "Buh-bye"s from all those clever peeps. Makes me wonder if they are just fetishists, or undercover TiVo customer service agents.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

You are going to pay to use a crappy DVR instead of paying a little more to use a great DVR out of spite? That sounds silly to me.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Chris2519 said:


> But I'm sorry, their customer service policies suck. They are borderline autistic in terms of understanding their customers needs. Their policies are ironclad with no room for interpretation or discretion on the part of their managers. [\QUOTE]
> 
> I actually like this about TiVo. They have a set of rules and they normally apply them consistently for everyone. I hate playing CSR roulette trying to get a good deal or hearing that someone else weaselled their way around a rule or got a better deal because they were willing to lie or be obnoxious.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Stormspace said:


> That's how it works. By morning there will be 5 posts telling you goodbye.  Plenty of people here can only look at it one way. Perhaps I'm guilty as well, but I do *try* to see things from other viewpoints.


What else is anyone supposed to say given that the poster gives no indication of exactly what his problem is. "Oh woe is us! TiVo is doomed without you!"


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Chris2519 said:


> Just joined this forum due to a problem I'm having with Tivo that I'm rather upset about, and reading through other people's complaints. I am awed (and somewhat appalled) by the number of people who cannot take criticism of their beloved little boxes and the company that makes them. Tivo makes a good product and pioneered an industry, no question. But I'm sorry, their customer service policies suck. They are borderline autistic in terms of understanding their customers needs. Their policies are ironclad with no room for interpretation or discretion on the part of their managers. It's not like Time Warner is much better, but you know what? I'm ebaying my three Series 3's and going with the freebie generic HD DVRS, because at least I won't be paying them $300+ a year for the privilege of indifferent customer service and equipment that breaks down. Instead, I'll get equally crappy and indifferent customer service for free!! Given the experience I had with them today, I am actually excited to become Lost Customer # 730,001 !


Where are you getting free DVRs from?

If the cable companies gave me free phone, TV and INternet for life, I stilll wouldn't use their DVRs. They are that bad.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Every year they have a NET lost of customers. Watch, TiVo will lose 600,000 user by 2011 and the total will get down to 2 million.
> 
> 2011 = 2.0 million
> 2012 = 1.5 million
> ...


2016 will be the worst year, that's when they have to PAY half a million people that don't even have TiVos!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Chris2519 said:


> Just joined this forum due to a problem I'm having with Tivo that I'm rather upset about, and reading through other people's complaints. I am awed (and somewhat appalled) by the number of people who cannot take criticism of their beloved little boxes and the company that makes them. Tivo makes a good product and pioneered an industry, no question. But I'm sorry, their customer service policies suck. They are borderline autistic in terms of understanding their customers needs. Their policies are ironclad with no room for interpretation or discretion on the part of their managers. It's not like Time Warner is much better, but you know what? I'm ebaying my three Series 3's and going with the freebie generic HD DVRS, because at least I won't be paying them $300+ a year for the privilege of indifferent customer service and equipment that breaks down. Instead, I'll get equally crappy and indifferent customer service for free!! Given the experience I had with them today, I am actually excited to become Lost Customer # 730,001 !


How did you manage to get free DVRs from TWC? I've never heard of anyone getting that before.


----------



## Chris2519 (Mar 14, 2010)

Actually, NRC, while I appreciate your clever "TiVo is doomed without me" jab, I'm sure TiVo will do just fine without me. Especially since they have these fanboys to defend them and get all juicy about everything they do. They, in fact, help cancel me out, which is very exciting! TiVo can do anything they want, and they'll never complain, they'll just keep throwing money to TiVo. They are PERFECT customers. I wish I could be selling them stuff! Just keep collecting money no matter what happens, have no accountability for my poorly made product, and they have no expectation that I would ever go out of my way to acknowledge their years of good business should something go awry.

Sadly, the rest of us have to live in the real world, and make choices about how we spend our hard-earned money. We don't all have the luxury of being fanboys.

I didn't go into the particulars of my problem with them here because that's not what this thread is about. I am simply giving my opinion that i think poor customer service is a factor in customer attrition.

In terms of your other post about how you like TiVo's customer service because it applies to everyone... well, I think that says it all. Just because policies apply to everyone, that doesn't mean that those policies are fair or smart, and, in many circumstances, they defy not only common sense but the most basic tenets of customer service. And my position is if TiVo were a little bit smarter in that department, and a little bit more loyal to their customers, they could expect a bit more loyalty back. I've been loyal to Apple for the past 5 years for this very reason--dependable products and very, very decent customer service. They have strict policies as well, but they consider extenuating circumstances and make exceptions when appropriate. They have managers that are smart enough to assimilate information before making decisions. And in the rare event of hardware failure or botched design, they take responsibility. TiVo does not. And that, to me, is not only morally reprehensible... it is indescribably stupid.

At the end of the day, companies that provide VALUE and SERVICE are the ones that win. TiVo, despite being innovators and having a decent product, is not in this league. And it shows in their balance sheets.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Chris2519 said:


> They have strict policies as well, but they consider extenuating circumstances and make exceptions when appropriate. They have managers that are smart enough to assimilate information before making decisions. And in the rare event of hardware failure or botched design, they take responsibility. TiVo does not. And that, to me, is not only morally reprehensible... it is indescribably stupid.


If you believe that TiVo is morally reprehensible then you're certainly doing the right thing to move on. If I believed that, I would too.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TiVo does provide excellent value and service. And like ANY company they will have issues, but overall they have been very good.

Now if people complain about having problems two days after the warranty expires and expect everthing to be covered, those are unrealistic. I don't expect any company to honor the warranty two days after it expires. There is an end date for a reason and I excpect any company to honor that


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

To be fair, a company can build good will by going beyond their obligations when a customer seems to be getting a raw deal. For example, my car's engine died months after the warranty ended due to a known manufacturing defect. They replaced my engine for free - didn't cost me a penny.


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Kablemodem said:


> To be fair, a company can build good will by going beyond their obligations when a customer seems to be getting a raw deal. For example, my car's engine died months after the warranty ended due to a known manufacturing defect. They replaced my engine for free - didn't cost me a penny.


Agreed. Honda replaced my entire transmission and it was over 5000 miles out of warranty. They said, "warranty or not it isn't expected to fail that soon."


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I've never had the engine of my TiVo fail.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> I've never had the engine of my TiVo fail.


There you go everyone. Iron clad proof TiVo doesn't have issues.


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Kablemodem said:


> To be fair, a company can build good will by going beyond their obligations when a customer seems to be getting a raw deal. For example, my car's engine died months after the warranty ended due to a known manufacturing defect. They replaced my engine for free - didn't cost me a penny.


Yes, and there's been lots of reports of TiVo going beyond their obligations here. I know they have with me in the past. But that's not something a consumer should absolutely count on.

Also remember that we hear only one side of the consumer complaint issues. As several people who have been in that business have attested to here, things often look very different from the other side when you get the full story.


----------



## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

Chris2519 said:


> I've trolled


Indeed ...


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> There you go everyone. Iron clad proof TiVo doesn't have issues.


Well considering I've owned around two dozen TiVos during the last nine years, if there were any major problems, the odds are that I would have seen something in at least one of the boxes I've owned.

But I've also always had my TiVos on a UPS. Any electronic device not on a UPS is more likely to have problems at some point, unless you have extremely stable power 24/7/365, which is unlikely from a normal power grid in the US.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

aaronwt said:


> Well considering I've owned around two dozen TiVos during the last nine years, if there were any major problems, the odds are that I would have seen something in at least one of the boxes I've owned.
> 
> But I've also always had my TiVos on a UPS. Any electronic device not on a UPS is more likely to have problems at some point, unless you have extremely stable power 24/7/365, which is unlikely from a normal power grid in the US.


True. My rule of thumb, anything with a hard drive (your TiVo is nothing more than a linux based computer designed for media recording an playback) should be on a UPS. In 20+ years of using computers in my home, I have just had my first HD failure ever. And there is nothing like hard shutdowns of a computer to push them to being 'glitchy'.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Well considering I've owned around two dozen TiVos during the last nine years, if there were any major problems, the odds are that I would have seen something in at least one of the boxes I've owned.
> 
> But I've also always had my TiVos on a UPS. Any electronic device not on a UPS is more likely to have problems at some point, unless you have extremely stable power 24/7/365, which is unlikely from a normal power grid in the US.


Every one of mine has been on a UPS since the first day home. What else ya got?


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> Every one of mine has been on a UPS since the first day home. What else ya got?


Ditto.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> Every one of mine has been on a UPS since the first day home. What else ya got?


I did the UPS thing when i first got my original Series 3 but on the first power failure the TiVo keep running but the house cable amp and street amps went out. The series 3 got locked up with the grey screen because of this and when power came back on the series 3 stayed with the grey screen, by putting the TiVo on the normal power the 5 minutes needed to reboot the TiVo after a power interruption makes sure the problem never happens as by then the cable signal is stable. My Series 3 does use two cable cards and that was the only time I got the grey screen.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> That's how it works. By morning there will be 5 posts telling you goodbye.  Plenty of people here can only look at it one way. Perhaps I'm guilty as well, but I do *try* to see things from other viewpoints.


I agree. People get really defensive about Tivo, when I point out how Moxi is superior to Tivo.

Somehow, they seem to like the ads on the main menu of the Tivo. They seem to also like their way of MRV. as well as contending that two tuners is enough


Just watch. I will get hate mail.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I agree. People get really defensive about Tivo, when I point out how Moxi is superior to Tivo.
> 
> Somehow, they seem to like the ads on the main menu of the Tivo. They seem to also like their way of MRV. as well as contending that two tuners is enough
> 
> ...


I've looked at the moxie and it seems like a great piece of hardware, but it suffers from the same thing TiVo lifetime does. It's
way too expensive. For people willing to throw a grand at it it's a bargain, but not so much for the introductory models. The most I paid for any of my boxes was 150.00 with an incremental cost a year in to upgrade the HDD.

It also appears that the tuners don't scale. Please correct me of I'm wrong, but it looks like once you exceed three tuners the mates do not easily switch between the recorders. I also didn't see a wireless solution which is a must for me. Also, can you use a PC as a moxie mate?


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> I've looked at the moxie and it seems like a great piece of hardware, but it suffers from the same thing TiVo lifetime does. It's
> way too expensive. For people willing to throw a grand at it it's a bargain, but not so much for the introductory models. The most I paid for any of my boxes was 150.00 with an incremental cost a year in to upgrade the HDD.
> 
> It also appears that the tuners don't scale. Please correct me of I'm wrong, but it looks like once you exceed three tuners the mates do not easily switch between the recorders. I also didn't see a wireless solution which is a must for me. Also, can you use a PC as a moxie mate?


Right, if you are using the three tuners for three different channels. The key is number of tuned channels, then your mate can either watch any of the three channels currently tuned or recorded shows.

They do not offer a wireless solution however many are able to connect using 802.11N bridge.

As for using PC as a Moxi Mate? That is not possible. Moxi uses DTCP-IP and can only be extended using the Moxi Mate.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

fatlard said:


> I agree. People get really defensive about Tivo, when I point out how Moxi is superior to Tivo.
> 
> Somehow, they seem to like the ads on the main menu of the Tivo. They seem to also like their way of MRV. as well as contending that two tuners is enough
> 
> ...


Saying Moxi is superior to TiVo is an opinion. Some people think PCs are superior to Macs - opinion - no matter which side of the fence you are on. I think that is why some people are taking issue with your posts. It is like a PC vs Mac thread in some respects, fanboys on both sides.

I still think there are no ads on these stand alone boxes you can purchase from Moxi, because the user base is too small to make it worthwhile to advertisers. There is nothing in Moxi literature which says ads are prohibited or will always be prohibited. (There are lots of words in some of the files, I could have missed something...).

And in tuner counting. A Moxi plus two mates is only three tuners and no OTA ability. Even just two premiers is 4 tuners, a better chipset and better growth options. So what is the cost per tuner? Though, does it really matter? Individual needs will dictate which brand is needed.

So again, only matter of opinion on which is better. Individual needs and circumstances may vary.

Of course you could count figures of DVRs in the vote of which is better for most people, but then the lowly cable DVR would win.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

fatlard said:


> Right, if you are using the three tuners for three different channels. The key is number of tuned channels, then your mate can either watch any of the three channels currently tuned or recorded shows.
> 
> They do not offer a wireless solution however many are able to connect using 802.11N bridge.
> 
> As for using PC as a Moxi Mate? That is not possible. Moxi uses DTCP-IP and can only be extended using the Moxi Mate.


Unless, of course, those tuners are being used for recording. You can easily be in a situation where live TV could only be watch in one place at a time, assuming the main unit is doing two recordings. With multiple TiVos and two tuners per TV, this is less likely.

The wireless (un?)solution is a problem for some. Can be solved, but a decent wireless bridge is certainly an added cost.

And it is very convenient being able to use any PC in my house as essentially an extender for TiVo. Maybe not live TV, but I can view recorded TiVo content on any other TiVo or computer in the house (provided I do not have copy protection flags). I am thinking the Premier box will eventually offer streaming (the chipset and software is certainly up to the task) so any flags that appear will not be an issue. You are right in pointing that issue out, it is a limitation for copy protected shows that is not going to go away on older TiVo boxes for sure.

Of course, I can also transfer nearly any video to TiVo for viewing in HD from my any computer in my home (though some I have to remux first). My understanding with Moxi is that you cannot do this either. Another point that may preclude the Moxi for some people.

Again, different homes will require or desire a different solution. A choice on which brand is better is an *opinion*. People will buy what suits them best, taking into account the costs.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

daveak said:


> . Even just two premiers is 4 tuners, a better chipset and better growth options. So what is the cost per tuner?


2 Moxi is 6 Tuners

see bfdtv's post
BCM3255 PDF

In addition to three QAM demodulators, that chip includes an embedded cable modem, so it might be possible to update the Moxi with the software necessary to support tru2way. Of course, this would require a substantial investment of resources.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18216361#post18216361


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I agree. People get really defensive about Tivo, when I point out how Moxi is superior to Tivo.
> 
> Somehow, they seem to like the ads on the main menu of the Tivo. They seem to also like their way of MRV. as well as contending that two tuners is enough
> 
> ...


The Moxi is far too expensive, and therefore not superior to TiVo. By not offering OTA support, I would be required to pay additional money to the cable company to get Moxi to work. As it is now, I do not have any digital cable TV charges with my PLS Series3. In my area, the Moxi would cost me $66.99+ more per month than my Series3 because of the additional cable costs.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

fatlard said:


> 2 Moxi is 6 Tuners
> 
> see bfdtv's post
> BCM3255 PDF
> ...


Two Moxis is 6 tuners, but now you are some where around $1500 for your set up. And Ive never been clear on how well the Mates will work tieh multiple Moxis.

Might be possible to upgrade is like saying the premier might do streaming. We do not really know, but we can hope. I am not so sure Moxi and their owner company are that willing to invest substantial resources in a niche market, unless they can get some cable and sat cos to use their box. And then they would have to compete with TiVo in this area and TiVo is a known name to the average joe.

We do know TiVo is planning some type of backdoor two way with cable provider RCN, using a broadband connection to talk back to the cable mothership. We do not know how this will work yet, but if it can provide the cable cos VOD offerings (and maybe help with switched video) then tru2way is less of an issue.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> The Moxi is far too expensive, and therefore not superior to TiVo. By not offering OTA support, I would be required to pay additional money to the cable company to get Moxi to work. As it is now, I do not have any digital cable TV charges with my PLS Series3. In my area, the Moxi would cost me $66.99+ more per month than my Series3 because of the additional cable costs.


I like your math. Here is my cost for OTA. 
Over 3 years, OTA with Tivo will cost me $84.12 more per month because I have to add an antenna on my house. The antenna is a potential hazard and require me to up my house insurance due to lightening strike. Furthermore, the antenna allows for transfer of heat from my home to the outside so I have to turn up the heat more.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I like your math. Here is my cost for OTA.
> Over 3 years, OTA with Tivo will cost me $84.12 more per month because I have to add an antenna on my house. The antenna is a potential hazard and require me to up my house insurance due to lightening strike. Furthermore, the antenna allows for transfer of heat from my home to the outside so I have to turn up the heat more.


And how exactly did you come up with that figure? 

I imagine the same heat loss is incurred from the hole in your house where the cable line comes in, so you can call that a wash.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

fatlard said:


> I like your math. Here is my cost for OTA.
> Over 3 years, OTA with Tivo will cost me $84.12 more per month because I have to add an antenna on my house. The antenna is a potential hazard and require me to up my house insurance due to lightening strike. Furthermore, the antenna allows for transfer of heat from my home to the outside so I have to turn up the heat more.


You could just accept that Moxi doesn't do OTA and having cable costs more than OTA, rather than try and be funny (and failing). I think your Moxi rants are starting to do more to hurt the Moxi brand on this forum than to help it.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I like your math. Here is my cost for OTA.
> Over 3 years, OTA with Tivo will cost me $84.12 more per month because I have to add an antenna on my house. The antenna is a potential hazard and require me to up my house insurance due to lightening strike. Furthermore, the antenna allows for transfer of heat from my home to the outside so I have to turn up the heat more.


Nope. It's confirmed. You are spreading disinformation. I spoke with my sister who is an Allstate agent, and coverage on a _satellite dish_ (and equipment) valued at $2500 increases your homeowners insurance by only $18.75 *PER YEAR*. So even if you bought the most expensive antenna found through google shopping, the resulting cost increase would be $6.44 *PER YEAR*, or ~54 cents *PER MONTH*, a difference of $83.58 in what you quoted. 

In the interest of those researching their "available options", please stop lying and spreading disinformation.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

MickeS said:


> You could just accept that Moxi doesn't do OTA and having cable costs more than OTA, rather than try and be funny (and failing). I think your Moxi rants are starting to do more to hurt the Moxi brand on this forum than to help it.


If I can influence a brand, then I have serious power. Thanks for the compliment!


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I think you need to re-read what I wrote if you think I said you have "serious power". You are pretty much the only one promoting Moxi on this forum, so what you write might have an impact on how those who read it perceive the brand. Don't let it go to your head.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I think you need to re-read what I wrote if you think I said you have "serious power". You are pretty much the only one promoting Moxi on this forum, so what you write might have an impact on how those who read it perceive the brand. Don't let it go to your head.


It is okay. You guys are a lost cause.


----------



## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

do you have a Tivo and a Moxi?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

fatlard said:


> It is okay. You guys are a lost cause.


Well, me personally is definitely a lost cause since I am OTA + online only, which makes a Moxi useless. Maybe you can find some other lost souls to save.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

fatlard said:


> It is okay. You guys are a lost cause.


So is your math concerning antennas and OTA costs.  You must have been joking, either way it was one of my better laughs of the day.

As far as OTA goes, Tivo is the best option (in my opinion). Netflix HD, Amazon HD, and uncompressed HD signal to my house. And then add the network and videos I pull off my network to my HD. Wow. Not to mention all the music and other files I can stream to my TiVo. Great way to show off my photo collections to the unsuspecting...  Unless you need a lot of sports programming (and OTA has way more I can ever watch during football season) why pay $700 - $1800 a year for cable and sat? Use the extra money to improve your HT experience and download and buy a few more movies.

I spend about $25 a month total, not including the occasional paid download. How much does that cable cost a month for an HD package?

Sometimes I even watch a Blu-ray movie and I do not even use TiVo...


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

fatlard said:


> It is okay. You guys are a lost cause.


Well, this is the *TiVo*communityforum after all.

Where is the Moxicommunityforum??? 
Oh, that's right. _There isn't one_. 
Maybe you could spread your misinformation over at AVSforums.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

Mike-Mike said:


> do you have a Tivo and a Moxi?


I had a Tivo Series1, Tivo Series 2 and most recently a TivoHD 
I sold the TivoHD for a Moxi.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

daveak said:


> So is your math concerning antennas and OTA costs.  You must have been joking, either way it was one of my better laughs of the day.
> 
> As far as OTA goes, Tivo is the best option (in my opinion). Netflix HD, Amazon HD, and uncompressed HD signal to my house. And then add the network and videos I pull off my network to my HD. Wow. Not to mention all the music and other files I can stream to my TiVo. Great way to show off my photo collections to the unsuspecting...  Unless you need a lot of sports programming (and OTA has way more I can ever watch during football season) why pay $700 - $1800 a year for cable and sat? Use the extra money to improve your HT experience and download and buy a few more movies.
> 
> ...


I pay to Comcast $55 per month and that includes internet access and all taxes.
I have Digital Starter and HBO and HD. That includes 1 cable card, 1 Comcast box and two DTAs



steve614 said:


> Well, this is the *TiVo*communityforum after all.
> 
> Where is the Moxicommunityforum???
> Oh, that's right. _There isn't one_.
> Maybe you could spread your misinformation over at AVSforums.


I like it here. I do not get the same response when I post on AVS Forums.


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I pay to Comcast $55 per month and that includes internet access and all taxes.
> I have Digital Starter and HBO and HD. That includes 1 cable card, 1 Comcast box and two DTAs


The cheapest Comcast TV + Internet here is a $79.99/month for 6 months _promotion_.



fatlard said:


> I like it here. I do not get the same response when I post on AVS Forums.


So is your only purpose here to antagonize and harass TiVo users?


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> The cheapest Comcast TV + Internet here is a $79.99/month for 6 months _promotion_.
> 
> So is your only purpose here to antagonize and harass TiVo users?


You can sign a one year contract with Comcast and you will get that price. I just provide information so I am also a source of info. Actually, it is the other way around. I get harrassed here.


----------



## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

This topic just provides the greatest laughs...

I was going to go with a Moxi myself but it would cost me an extra $0.02 a day to power that 3rd tuner so I decided against it.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I like your math. Here is my cost for OTA.
> Over 3 years, OTA with Tivo will cost me $84.12 more per month because I have to add an antenna on my house. The antenna is a potential hazard and require me to up my house insurance due to lightening strike. Furthermore, the antenna allows for transfer of heat from my home to the outside so I have to turn up the heat more.


Moxi is safer and better for the environment


----------



## JTalbert (Jan 1, 2001)

Mike-Mike said:


> on tivo.com there is a coming soon thing about Cox:
> 
> In the works Cox cable DVRs with TiVo service
> TiVo's downloadable software will allow Cox to deliver the TiVo® service in Cox subscriber homes without replacing existing DVR boxes, and without an install appointment. In this way, current Cox DVR customers who wish to enjoy the award-winning TiVo service will quickly and easily add the benefits of TiVo to their DVR subscription. Check back here for updates.


Yeah but this announcement is OLD, Aug 24, 2006, its been 3.5 years and what has come out of it? Is Tivo being slow on the development, or is Cox being slow on their part? Only time will tell. I am honestly not holding my breath that this will ever come to light. Cable companies would ilke nothing more than to see Tivo Fail IMHO. Cable companies.. "Competition, we dont need no stinkin competition, that way we can charge customers what we want and there is nothing they can do about it"


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Moxi is safer and better for the environment


So Moxi is the green DVR...


----------



## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

any news?


----------



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> any news?


On what?


----------



## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> actually TiVo is just tired of selling the HW. TiVo loves to design the HW and the software to go on it as a package.


The Comcast TiVo and new TiVo SW for DirecTV has done wonders so far  . Hopefully the new SW projects are MUCH better than the old SW projects.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

ADent said:


> The Comcast TiVo and new TiVo SW for DirecTV has done wonders so far  . Hopefully the new SW projects are MUCH better than the old SW projects.


umm - everyone knows that the Comcast *motorolla hardware* sucks eggs and their insistence on trying to download a whole new OS and app into the customers home has just killed that attempt. Thus my statement that TiVo likes to design the _hardware and_ software.

The directTV software is not even out yet and no one knows what the delay is about - do you have some info we do not on how it works?


----------

