# Game of Thrones 05/22/2011 "A Golden Crown"



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Um...WOW.

The second hint of magic (not sure if the White Walkers are magic). This time, it's clear that something magical is happening with the relationship with the dragons and their eggs.

Ned really overstepped his bounds.

Who was the guy that fought on Tyrion's behalf?

and finally: I really don't like the actress playing Ned's wife. I wonder who it was that she replaced (I understand the pilot was redone and she and the dragon queen/ Dany were replacements). She's doing very little with the character, and doing it badly, I think. The only blemish on an otherwise superb show


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## Vesper (Dec 19, 2001)

The guy who fought on Tyron's behalf is a sellsword named Bronn. He's been with the group since they arrested Tyrion at the inn, and Tyrion was chumming it up with him on the road.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

I think I can make a comment about book vs. show if it's not spoileriffic, right?

Comment: Production must have decided that Direwolves are hard to work with/too expensive, since they have scaled back their presence significantly. In this episode, the wildling encounter with Bran, Robb, and Theon sure went differently in the book. But I don't blame them for cutting the wolves.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I loved it! The "dragon" brother got his crown! And I loved the scene after the fight. "You do not fight with honor" "No, I don't. He did".


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

I do miss seeing the Wolves-but man, every scene in that episode was perfect. There are some parts that are filmed exactly as I imagined them in the book. Sucks that the season is halfway over.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

I've been wondering what the golden crown would look like. Yuck. That clunk when he hit the ground was rough. And I thought that Viserys reaction was absolutely spot-on perfect when he first hears that he'll get his wish. He was just so clueless.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

billypritchard said:


> I think I can make a comment about book vs. show if it's not spoileriffic, right?
> 
> Comment: Production must have decided that Direwolves are hard to work with/too expensive, since they have scaled back their presence significantly. In this episode, the wildling encounter with Bran, Robb, and Theon sure went differently in the book. But I don't blame them for cutting the wolves.


They're too hard to work with, which is a shame. One actor interviewed said it'd take hours to get the right take for the animal and usually that was a take where it was bad for the actor. I think Lady's death took 3 hours to film and you barely even see her.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Are "direwolves" different from regular old wolves?

Loved last night's episode. I'm on the road this week and I ended up watching it on a 20" hotel TV that is so old I'm convinced it's steam powered. Was a great episode, we're getting dangerously close to the 10th episode though. 

tk


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

pendragn said:


> Are "direwolves" different from regular old wolves?
> 
> Loved last night's episode. I'm on the road this week and I ended up watching it on a 20" hotel TV that is so old I'm convinced it's steam powered. Was a great episode, we're getting dangerously close to the 10th episode though.
> 
> tk


Yes, the third episode we saw what was essentially a full grown dog, and they were supposed to be three months old. They supposedly get to be about the size of small horse.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I liked when Tyrion's champion essentially rope-a-doped the other guy.

Viserys Targaryen wins the "Dumbest MF'er On TV" award.

The Dothraki must have some non-splatter liquid gold.

I think Ned's going to be in trouble when the King gets back from the hunt.

I hate Sansa.

I didn't read the books so I don't miss the direwolves at all. I imagine I'd feel differently if I did.

Should I assume the cut on Bran's leg will be significant?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Sansa did look very pretty and she did have the best line in the episode (I don't remember the words but it was along the lines of "I don't want tall, dark, and handsome, I want him!" 

the smile exchanged between Aryia and Ned was priceless.

and kudos to the director for framing a heart between Joffrey and Sansa just before their kiss. Very nicely done.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

It's good to know that Robert seems to know that his first loyalty is to Ned.

Were the people who attacked Bran just your standard Winterfell bad guys, or were they Wildlings or whatever from across the Wall? They did mention White Walkers in passing, didn't they? As if they had seen them? Or maybe were just expecting to see them. 

Cat's sister seemed a little more sane this time. Is the Eyrie her castle or John Ayron's, family-wise? (pardon my spelling, these names are hard enough to remember much less to spell.) Cool place, anyway. I think I'd just gather in supplies and hide there through the war and the winter both.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I WANT THE BAD MAN TO FLY!!!! That kid was creepy as hell.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Gunnyman said:


> I WANT THE BAD MAN TO FLY!!!! That kid was creepy as hell.


And yet not as creepy as he was last week.

The little sucker!


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And yet not as creepy as he was last week.
> 
> The little sucker!


indeed.


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## SurvivorFan (Mar 9, 2011)

stellie93 said:


> Cat's sister seemed a little more sane this time. Is the Eyrie her castle or John Ayron's, family-wise?


She is Cat's sister, so she's a Tully. I think the Eyrie was her husband's hold.


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## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

Great stuff. There are so many of those moments in the book, I can totally see the final scene of each episode. This one with the crown was priceless. 

From what I remember the cut in the book was mostly to say that Bran had no feeling in his legs, and in the show he even says, "It doesn't hurt". I don't think it turns into a plot point beyond that. 

Though, I do see something specific in the hunting scene that will make more sense after next weeks episode. 

This show is awesome. I have FB friends already calling it better than LOTR. (though, they do apologize for the blasphemy)


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Who exactly was the girl on the cart? I don't remember her. Next time I will


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I *think* she's that hooker that everyone seems to visits (and we also saw her last week with him). It took me a few seconds to figure it out myself; not sure I ever noticed her face before.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Ned's wife reminds me of actress Joan Allen.

And Daenerys reminds me of a young Emmanuelle Béart.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Were the people who attacked Bran ... Wildlings or whatever from across the Wall? They did mention White Walkers in passing, didn't they? As if they had seen them? Or maybe were just expecting to see them.


Yes. Note the passing mention of Mance Rayder, the "King Beyond the Wall".

(Note: following this link will undoubtedly expose you to spoilers)

A Wiki of Ice and Fire: King-Beyond-The-Wall


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Enjoying this series though i've never read the books, but wondering where it's all headed. It's sort of meandering so far. When will it all come into focus?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I hate Sansa.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I *think* she's that hooker that everyone seems to visits (and we also saw her last week with him). It took me a few seconds to figure it out myself; not sure I ever noticed her face before.


Roz?


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Tyrion confessing his crimes was quite funny. Good episode and I'm starting to "know" the characters better now.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'm actually watching the opening sequence now that I know the names and background information on the major players and where they're from.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Roz?


Yes that was who it was... you just can't place her because she has (most of her) clothes on.

The previous week she was shown with Theon (?) in the whorehouse.

I too greatly miss the wolves. I'm really surprised they are having that hard of a time showing them. Hell, just have them come in to a scene or two... Like the one that was sitting in front of the throne in Winterfall.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> Enjoying this series though i've never read the books, but wondering where it's all headed. It's sort of meandering so far. When will it all come into focus?


It's a big sweeping story told from multiple points of view. I don't think it ever comes into "focus" the way I take it you mean.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Ereth said:


> It's a big sweeping story told from multiple points of view. I don't think it ever comes into "focus" the way I take it you mean.


Well, that's disappointing.


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## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

Can someone explain to me what Ned discovered with the different hair colors listed in the book? I really struggle with keeping track of the names in this show and am not clear what he figured out. Put in spoiler tags if you want. Thanks.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> Enjoying this series though i've never read the books, but wondering where it's all headed. It's sort of meandering so far. When will it all come into focus?


I think by next week you'll see the main focus of the story happening.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Ereth said:


> It's a big sweeping story told from multiple points of view. I don't think it ever comes into "focus" the way I take it you mean.


Well, we haven't read _A Dance With Dragons_ yet ....


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

bubba1972 said:


> Can someone explain to me what Ned discovered with the different hair colors listed in the book? I really struggle with keeping track of the names in this show and am not clear what he figured out. Put in spoiler tags if you want. Thanks.


Did you see episode one?

It helps to know genetics, but the information in the book Ned was studying clearly shows that in the Baratheon family


Spoiler



black hair is dominant -- and Joffery is blonde.



Note the key data is Sansa's declaration is that Joffrey, the heir apparent, "is not the least bit like that old drunken king".


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

bubba1972 said:


> Can someone explain to me what Ned discovered with the different hair colors listed in the book? I really struggle with keeping track of the names in this show and am not clear what he figured out. Put in spoiler tags if you want. Thanks.


You should read the recaps... This was actually the first episode I wasn't confused as to who was doing what.

http://tvrecaps.ew.com/tv-show/game-of-thrones/


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

murgatroyd said:


> the key data is Sansa's declaration is that Joffrey, the heir apparent, "is not the least bit like that old drunken king".


Do we have an


Spoiler



"Uncle Daddy" situation?


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I don't quite get the queen being such a liar. It's so obvious she's lying and so far she seems to do it so frequently I would doubt every word that came out of her mouth if I were the king, and hit her in the mouth every day just assuming something she has said a lie that day.

I guess it's supposed to let the reader/viewer hate her, but it seems out of place for a person so high up in the hierarchy, why lie when it seems that they get whatever they want anyways for being royalty.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

murgatroyd said:


> Did you see episode one?
> 
> It helps to know genetics, but the information in the book Ned was studying clearly shows that in the Baratheon family
> 
> ...


Which is why it was so significant that

*Warning: the spoiler below discusses things that happen in the next episode, currently viewable on HBOGO but not yet aired. And it mentions more than just Joffrey and hair color*


Spoiler



Ned, having deduced that though Joffrey is the heir apparent he is not the rightful heir, changed up the words when Robert was dictating his last will and testament. Robert said "until such time as Joffrey comes of age" (paraphrase), but when writing it down Ned changed it to "until such time as my rightful heir..."

Having not read the books I've been struggling a bit to keep up with all the various machinations, but I'm pretty sure I understood the significance of that scene: Ned just blocked Joffrey from the throne.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> )
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


More specifically,


Spoiler



he set up a theoretical framework that would make it possible to later exclude him from the throne.


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## bubba1972 (Mar 28, 2005)

Got it now. Thanks.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Interesting that you can request a "trial by combat". So you can be a terrible criminal but if you are a good fighter (or know a good fighter willing to stand for you) you can walk free? Seems like a dumb system.

I was so shocked that the blonde guy got killed! I thought he was a major character who would be around for a long, long time. I loved the way that Dany refused to turn away. Her story is not what I expected. The fact that she refused to accept a victim posture (in more ways than one) in her marriage and instead kept her heart open to love her husband and to accept his ways is a nice change from the more standard storyline I would have expected there. I'm excited to see what will happen to the dragon eggs. And who is "The Dragon"? Is that the heir to the throne of that family? Why would it be assumed that the brother was the Dragon if it is actually something mystical that can be tested?

I liked that Ned's two daughers reacted to his news as girls their age really would--with arguing and whining.

I haven't read the books (yet) and am speculating here, although it seems fairly obvious by now, that the previous King's Hand figured out that Joffrey isn't the King's son and was out tracking down bastards to find the King's true eldest child. And I go back to my original guess that Jon Snow is going to end up being one of those bastards. Speaking of him, haven't seen him in the last couple of episodes.

Loved Sansa being snotty to the lady about her hair and upbringing.

I thought that...*what is her name?*.....Cercei? .... that the Queen looked so childish when she said "Ned Stark was drunk and came across Jamie....." Why does she have to be so mean?


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Tracy said:


> Interesting that you can request a "trial by combat". So you can be a terrible criminal but if you are a good fighter (or know a good fighter willing to stand for you) you can walk free? Seems like a dumb system.


Unfortunately, if you look at human history that was the system for many cultures for centuries. Notions like "might is right" are abundant in history, also some people believed god(s) would never let the right man lose a trial by combat.


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

robojerk said:


> Unfortunately, if you look at human history that was the system for many cultures for centuries. Notions like "might is right" are abundant in history, also some people believed god(s) would never let the right man lose a trial by combat.


Oh, wow. I never knew that.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Peter000 said:


> Enjoying this series though i've never read the books, but wondering where it's all headed. It's sort of meandering so far. When will it all come into focus?


Its a very large story. Think of it this way, George R.R. Martin created a world and he likes to play in it, there will be threads that go down dead ends, or don't come back for several books (hell, there have been some things already shown in the series that aren't revealed until much later in the books) The show has to establish a lot of pieces and the next few episodes are going to show the results. The story is far more a character study and a deconstruction of medieval life and politics. So, while it seems meandering (and it is) there are major things happening in the background of all of it, the next several episodes will probably focus a little bit, but maybe not as much as you want (hell there are seven books and we're just about to get the fifth in a few months.)



robojerk said:


> I don't quite get the queen being such a liar. It's so obvious she's lying and so far she seems to do it so frequently I would doubt every word that came out of her mouth if I were the king, and hit her in the mouth every day just assuming something she has said a lie that day.
> 
> I guess it's supposed to let the reader/viewer hate her, but it seems out of place for a person so high up in the hierarchy, why lie when it seems that they get whatever they want anyways for being royalty.


She can't do whatever she wants because she's a woman (one of the major themes in the books is the limited roles that women can maneuver in this world and the benefits and consequences to confine yourself to that role (Sansa) or buck the system (Arya). Cersei sticks to the traditional system while trying to covertly pull strings in the background. She and Robert do not have a loving relationship, so she does not get to outright defy or force Robert to do what she wants. Contrast that to Ned and Cat's loving relationship. Cat really screwed up by capturing Tyrion, but Ned not only comes to her defense, he takes the responsibility for her actions.



Tracy said:


> I loved the way that Dany refused to turn away. Her story is not what I expected. The fact that she refused to accept a victim posture (in more ways than one) in her marriage and instead kept her heart open to love her husband and to accept his ways is a nice change from the more standard storyline I would have expected there.


Yes, the way archetypes get played with and subverted is part of the reason the books are so popular, most people are far, far more complicated than they first appear.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tracy said:


> Oh, wow. I never knew that.


That was the same culture that gave us the floating witch test (throw the suspect into the water; if she floats, she's a witch; if she sinks, she's innocent, and hopefully you can fish her out before she drowns).

Trial by combat
Trial by ordeal


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was the same culture that gave us the floating witch test (throw the suspect into the water; if she floats, she's a witch; if she sinks, she's innocent, and hopefully you can fish her out before she drowns).
> 
> Trial by combat
> Trial by ordeal


SHE'S A WITCH!


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Witch!!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The scientific explanation:

Sir Bedevere: There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
Peasant 1: Are there? Oh well, tell us.
Sir Bedevere: Tell me. What do you do with witches?
Peasant 1: Burn them.
Sir Bedevere: And what do you burn, apart from witches?
Peasant 1: More witches.
Peasant 2: Wood.
Sir Bedevere: Good. Now, why do witches burn?
Peasant 3: ...because they're made of... wood?
Sir Bedevere: Good. So how do you tell whether she is made of wood?
Peasant 1: Build a bridge out of her.
Sir Bedevere: But can you not also build bridges out of stone?
Peasant 1: Oh yeah.
Sir Bedevere: Does wood sink in water?
Peasant 1: No, no, it floats!... It floats! Throw her into the pond!
Sir Bedevere: No, no. What else floats in water?
Peasant 1: Bread.
Peasant 2: Apples.
Peasant 3: Very small rocks.
Peasant 1: Cider.
Peasant 2: Gravy.
Peasant 3: Cherries.
Peasant 1: Mud.
Peasant 2: Churches.
Peasant 3: Lead! Lead!
King Arthur: A Duck.
Sir Bedevere: ...Exactly. So, logically...
Peasant 1: If she weighed the same as a duck... she's made of wood.
Sir Bedevere: And therefore...
Peasant 2: ...A witch!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I don't think my girlfriend would eat a bloody horse's heart for me.


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## BK89 (Oct 11, 2005)

Tracy said:


> Interesting that you can request a "trial by combat". So you can be a terrible criminal but if you are a good fighter (or know a good fighter willing to stand for you) you can walk free? Seems like a dumb system.


So what is Ned going to do once the King's men arrest Gregor "The Mountain" and bring him back to King's Landing? Can't Gregor just request a trial by combat as well? I don't think anyone will be jumping at the chance to take him on. What a dumb system, so someone as big as he is can pretty much do whatever he wants then?


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't think my girlfriend would eat a bloody horse's heart for me.


It wasn't for him, it was for the baby. To make it strong.

Sent from my rockin' Nexus One


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## Roommate (Apr 23, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't think my girlfriend would eat a bloody horse's heart for me.


But you're not a horse lord, are you? Surely, she would eat a cheesesteak for you...


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## Roommate (Apr 23, 2003)

BK89 said:


> So what is Ned going to do once the King's men arrest Gregor "The Mountain" and bring him back to King's Landing? Can't Gregor just request a trial by combat as well? I don't think anyone will be jumping at the chance to take him on. What a dumb system, so someone as big as he is can pretty much do whatever he wants then?


Gregor doesn't strike me as a guy who would willingly submit to arrest anyway.

(Yes, it's a very dumb system, but a historically accurate one.)


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## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The scientific explanation:
> 
> Sir Bedevere: There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
> Peasant 1: Are there? Oh well, tell us.
> ...


This always makes me laugh.


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## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

zordude said:


> Who exactly was the girl on the cart? I don't remember her. Next time I will


Yes, a prostitute. Last week we saw her with Theon. She was taunting him, goading him, making fun of his "servant" status even though he is the eldest son of a great lord.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

murgatroyd said:


> Yes. Note the passing mention of Mance Rayder, the "King Beyond the Wall".


Ok, I was thinking of beyond the wall all wrong. I expected them to be total barbarians even more so than the Dothraki and maybe a little supernatural. So they're just other tribes a little less organized without big castles? So disappointing.



ducker said:


> I too greatly miss the wolves. I'm really surprised they are having that hard of a time showing them. Hell, just have them come in to a scene or two... Like the one that was sitting in front of the throne in Winterfall.


So were those just dogs they're used so far? I would rather have them stay smaller than not be able to show them at all. These last couple eps have been great, but the one where Lady died is still my favorite. 



danterner said:


> Which is why it was so significant that (Just edited to add spoiler tags because I just realized this may be a part of the next episode -


That's what I get for reading all the spoilers. I didn't mind knowing the main point of the spoiler, but was disappointed to see the other big plot point thrown in there.  My fault.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> That's what I get for reading all the spoilers. I didn't mind knowing the main point of the spoiler, but was disappointed to see the other big plot point thrown in there.  My fault.


I'm sorry. 
I'll go back and make my spoiler more vague and also preface it better. Won't help you retroactively.


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## BK89 (Oct 11, 2005)

So we are now complaining about spoilers that have been properly prefaced with do not read unless you want spoliers and have been properly hidden with the spoiler button? Just checking.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Unfortunately, if you look at human history that was the system for many cultures for centuries. Notions like "might is right" are abundant in history, also *some people believed god(s) would never let the right man lose a trial by combat.*


I'm pretty sure the only place this is still true is on Survivor.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

BK89 said:


> So we are now complaining about spoilers that have been properly prefaced with do not read unless you want spoliers and have been properly hidden with the spoiler button? Just checking.


I said it was totally my fault for reading it. I've read all the spoilers on this thread, and this is the first time I've regretted it, so I'll probably keep on reading them.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I don't think my girlfriend would eat a bloody horse's heart for me.
> 
> 
> JETarpon said:
> ...


If you're not reading Entertainment Weekly's GoT recaps, you need to be. They educate & illuminate, and they're hilarious.

On the heart eating scene...


> Dany has a massive horse heart that she's trying to eat without vomiting, as if she's on some kind of reality show. It seems the Dothraki believe the heart of a stallion will make her son strong and fearless, but only if she can eat the whole thing. Guess she's lucky they didn't want her offspring to be a great lover instead.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

robojerk said:


> Unfortunately, if you look at human history that was the system for many cultures for centuries. Notions like "might is right" are abundant in history, also some people believed god(s) would never let the right man lose a trial by combat.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1416262/Court-refuses-trial-by-combat.html

It appears some people still subscribe to this idea.


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## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

When they poured that hot caramel on his head I thought I was going to crap my pants!


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Yep, that's a horrible way to die. And Viserys deserved every excruciating moment of it.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Mr. Merkin said:


> When they poured that hot caramel on his head I thought I was going to crap my pants!


Check out this interview with Harry Lloyd: http://omg.yahoo.com/news/game-of-thrones-postmortem-harry-lloyd-on-viserys-golden-crown/63519



> "The day before, we rehearsed the breaking of the arm and the struggling," Lloyd explains. "The gold seen poured is paint mixed with something like a plastic maybe... I can't remember. But I had a crazy smoke machine strapped to my front, and then to the back when the camera moved, so we had real smoke on-screen. The best bit was the golden kind of hat they molded to my head."


Greg


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I'd keep the hat, and wear it out in public. That would be awesome.

As much as he still deserved it, I thought he wasn't nearly as reprehensible on screen as he was on paper.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

JETarpon said:


> I'd keep the hat, and wear it out in public. That would be awesome.
> 
> As much as he still deserved it, I thought he wasn't nearly as reprehensible on screen as he was on paper.


Agreed, now that it's not a spoiler, I can say it (my friends who have read the novels and I have actually been talking about this for weeks). I wanted him to live longer, Harry Lloyd is an amazing actor.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Aniketos said:


> Agreed, now that it's not a spoiler, I can say it (my friends who have read the novels and I have actually been talking about this for weeks). I wanted him to live longer, Harry Lloyd is an amazing actor.


Wow... I thought he was way over the top with that character. In fact, most of the actors are on this show. They need to be reigned in a bit on their performances.

But it is a larger than life fantasy story. So some over the top "ACTING!" is acceptable.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

There has been no explanation as of yet for Bran's dreams, correct?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> Wow... I thought he was way over the top with that character. In fact, most of the actors are on this show. They need to be reigned in a bit on their performances.
> 
> But it is a larger than life fantasy story. So some over the top "ACTING!" is acceptable.


Funny. I don't see anybody hamming it up or overacting.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Peter000 said:


> Wow... I thought he was way over the top with that character. In fact, most of the actors are on this show. They need to be reigned in a bit on their performances.
> 
> But it is a larger than life fantasy story. So some over the top "ACTING!" is acceptable.


He played a sociopath with entitlement issues who's insanity was the product of both incest and being brought up to believe that he was the most important, unique, special person in the world and everyone else were merely objects to be used in his rise to glory. Then his whole world is shattered within a couple of months by his inferior little sister who's always been scared of him and a bunch of savages.

Worked for me.

The actors across the board are being praised by both fans and critics alike, I'm surprised you think most of them are over the top.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

dandrewk said:


> Yes, a prostitute. Last week we saw her with Theon. She was taunting him, goading him, making fun of his "servant" status even though he is the eldest son of a great lord.


I loved the Sharon Stone moment...Priceless


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Aniketos said:


> He played a sociopath with entitlement issues who's insanity was the product of both incest and being brought up to believe that he was the most important, unique, special person in the world and everyone else were merely objects to be used in his rise to glory. Then his whole world is shattered within a couple of months by his inferior little sister who's always been scared of him and a bunch of savages.
> 
> Worked for me.
> 
> The actors across the board are being praised by both fans and critics alike, I'm surprised you think most of them are over the top.


Agreed! Some of the characters are over the top, but the actors are great!


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Ok, I was thinking of beyond the wall all wrong. I expected them to be total barbarians even more so than the Dothraki and maybe a little supernatural. So they're just other tribes a little less organized without big castles? So disappointing.


The Wildlings are barbarians, but we found out through the passing comment about Mance Rayder that they are a little more organized than the people of Westeros give them credit for. There's at least some sort of leader up there.

As for the supernatural thing, keep in mind that the Wildlings and the White Walkers are two different things.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Anubys said:


> There has been no explanation as of yet for Bran's dreams, correct?


No there has not. They're more predominant in the books by this point, but I'm guessing the show wants to ease viewers into the dream sequences.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Without spoilers or knowing anything that happens, it's obvious that they are implying that Joffrey is Jaime's son and not Robert's.

Also, the white haired queen is the dragon because she wasn't hurt by fire.

I really need a compendium of actor's faces and names so I can follow along with some of these side characters!


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Peter000 said:


> Wow... I thought he was way over the top with that character. In fact, most of the actors are on this show. They need to be reigned in a bit on their performances.


Considering how much plot they're burning through this season, they had to kind of be over the top.
Viserys dies on episode 6, the actor really needed to sell the fact of how much of a tool the character was. If he toned it down a bit some viewers might have felt bad for his fate.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

crowfan said:


> The Wildlings are barbarians, but we found out through the passing comment about Mance Rayder that they are a little more organized than the people of Westeros give them credit for. There's at least some sort of leader up there.
> 
> As for the supernatural thing, keep in mind that the Wildlings and the White Walkers are two different things.


How do the Wildlings get on the south side of the Wall? If it's a major spoiler, then never mind. Otherwise, I'm curious. The Wall seems insurmountable.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

NoThru22 said:


> I really need a compendium of actor's faces and names so I can follow along with some of these side characters!


I posted one a couple weeks ago but can't seem to find it now. This one is OK - but it looks like only major characters.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-game-of-thrones-cheat-htmlstory,0,6734586.htmlstory

Edit: never mind - jackpot - http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/index.html#/game-of-thrones/cast-and-crew/index.html


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

astrohip said:


> How do the Wildlings get on the south side of the Wall? If it's a major spoiler, then never mind. Otherwise, I'm curious. The Wall seems insurmountable.


they have alluded in the show to the Wall's #s becoming weak and a shell of it's former self. slipping through the cracks doesn't seem unreasonable...


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## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> I loved the Sharon Stone moment...Priceless


"What are you gonna do? Arrest me for sitting on a turnip cart?"


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## BK89 (Oct 11, 2005)

Anubys said:


> There has been no explanation as of yet for Bran's dreams, correct?


No explaination yet that I can tell. In the last dream sequence the bird flew down a dark corridor in Winterfell. Is this the same passage that the King and Ned had their talk about Ned's sister in the first episode? I think they were in the crypt and it looked like the same place the bird was flying in this episode.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

astrohip said:


> How do the Wildlings get on the south side of the Wall? If it's a major spoiler, then never mind. Otherwise, I'm curious. The Wall seems insurmountable.


I was wondering the same thing myself. I didn't even realize they were Wildlings. Shouldn't Temporary Lord Stark have noticed something was off?


mostman said:


> never mind - jackpot - http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/index.html#/game-of-thrones/cast-and-crew/index.html


Whoa, just what I was looking for. I can see that I should called Temporary Lord Stark Robb.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> Without spoilers or knowing anything that happens, it's obvious that they are implying that Joffrey is Jaime's son and not Robert's.


We know that because we saw Jaime and the Queen (I know her name, but then there's the issue of spelling it. Too lazy to look it up) together. But is there any reason for Ned to think that the father is necessarily Jaime? It wouldn't have been my first guess, but then maybe he's the only one she's left alone with.



Aniketos said:


> He played a sociopath with entitlement issues who's insanity was the product of both incest and ...
> 
> The actors across the board are being praised by both fans and critics alike, I'm surprised you think most of them are over the top.


I think the acting is great as a non-book-reader. It's nice to see a show with no actors you recognize, yet they're all good.

Am I confused or do we know that Veserys is a product of incest? Or were we talking about Joffrey? Or is everyone likely to be a product of incest in Westeros?


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

In the books, the Targaryens were noted for their incest in an attempt to keep the dragon bloodlines pure. If I remember that right. I don't think it's been discussed in the show.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I guess it's a wonder Dany's not a raving lunatic too. But then she did eat that bloody heart.....


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

crowfan said:


> In the books, the Targaryens were noted for their incest in an attempt to keep the dragon bloodlines pure. If I remember that right. I don't think it's been discussed in the show.


the show has said that the Lannisters have been doing it going back hundreds of years... (ewwwwww)


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## BK89 (Oct 11, 2005)

Here's a question, why would Veserys think he is the dragon if it is so easy to test? Has he never taken a hot bath or been burned before in his entire life? Seems to me that would be pretty obvious, "Hey, fire burns I guess I'm not a dragon."


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

stellie93 said:


> We know that because we saw Jaime and the Queen ....... is there any reason for Ned to think that the father is necessarily Jaime? It wouldn't have been my first guess, but then maybe he's the only one she's left alone with.
> 
> Am I confused or do we know that Veserys is a product of incest? Or were we talking about Joffrey? Or is everyone likely to be a product of incest in Westeros?





crowfan said:


> In the books, the Targaryens were noted for their incest in an attempt to keep the dragon bloodlines pure. If I remember that right. I don't think it's been discussed in the show.


In Westeros, if you come from a prominent house maybe it's not uncommon to make babies with your siblings.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

BK89 said:


> Here's a question, why would Veserys think he is the dragon if it is so easy to test? Has he never taken a hot bath or been burned before in his entire life? Seems to me that would be pretty obvious, "Hey, fire burns I guess I'm not a dragon."


It seems each of these great houses have animals that symbolize them.

Starks - Direwolf
Lannisters - Lions
Baratheon - Stag
Targaryen - Three-headed dragon

I didn't read the book so I am speculating (no speculation tag):
I think his house/bloodline has the ability to ride the dragons (like the story he told the sex slave earlier) so as the head of the household he is "the dragon"

If there is something magical about their bloodline, maybe the fire didn't burn Daenerys/Dany's hand since she is more pure blooded than her brother. _If_ the dragon eggs hatch, perhaps her son will be a dragon rider.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> Also, the white haired queen is the dragon because she wasn't hurt by fire.


I thought the implication was that the unborn child was the dragon.

Z


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

robojerk said:


> If there is something magical about their bloodline, maybe the fire didn't burn Daenerys/Dany's hand since she is more pure blooded than her brother. _If_ the dragon eggs hatch, perhaps her son will be a dragon rider.


I took it that it wasn't fire in general that wouldn't burn her, but the burning dragon egg. Maybe I misunderstood. So why did she put the egg in the fire? Why are the eggs so valuable? They surely arent' going to hatch are they? He told the girl that there hadn't been any dragons around since long before he was born. I took that to mean that they were all long gone and not coming back. Maybe not?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> I took it that it wasn't fire in general that wouldn't burn her, but the burning dragon egg. Maybe I misunderstood. So why did she put the egg in the fire? Why are the eggs so valuable? They surely arent' going to hatch are they? He told the girl that there hadn't been any dragons around since long before he was born. I took that to mean that they were all long gone and not coming back. Maybe not?


Well, if they can bring back dinosaurs from DNA in mosquitoes preserved in amber (and we know they can, because we've all seen Jurassic Park), then how hard can it be to bring back dragons from a magic egg?


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## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

It looked like that hot caramel killed him.


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

stellie93 said:


> Am I confused or do we know that Veserys is a product of incest? Or were we talking about Joffrey? Or is everyone likely to be a product of incest in Westeros?


I assumed it had been mentioned on the show, but in the book, it's a very large part of Targaryen line to keep themselves pure.



pjenkins said:


> the show has said that the Lannisters have been doing it going back hundreds of years... (ewwwwww)


Not sure if you meant the Targaryens, but just to clarify. The Targaryens have married brother to sister for generations. Jamie and Cersei are the only Lannisters that have been incestuous. In the books, one of them (I think Cersei) kinda justify it to themselves because the Targaryens do it.



robojerk said:


> In Westeros, if you come from a prominent house maybe it's not uncommon to make babies with your siblings.


It actually is uncommon and frowned upon, the Targaryens got away with it because they had dominated the land.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Aniketos said:


> Not sure if you meant the Targaryens, but just to clarify. The Targaryens have married brother to sister for generations. Jamie and Cersei are the only Lannisters that have been incestuous. In the books, one of them (I think Cersei) kinda justify it to themselves because the Targaryens do it.


no, i meant the Lannisters, i thought that is what Cersei said to Ned in the courtyard... maybe i heard it wrong and she was really talking about the Targaryens...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

So far, I see zero reason for Ned to suspect Jaime. All he can deduce at this point is that Joofrey is not Robert's son. The leap to Jaime would be ridiculous at this point.

And doesn't Sansa have blond hair?!


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## Aniketos (Mar 6, 2006)

Anubys said:


> And doesn't Sansa have blond hair?!


She's a redhead, like Cat (which is a lot harder to tell the actress has very dark hair.)

Robb is supposed to be as well.


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## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

Jaime is obviously the father, that would explain his hasty and rash decision to push Bran out the window.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Mr. Merkin said:


> Jaime is obviously the father, that would explain his hasty and rash decision to push Bran out the window.


Bran was pushed out because he saw them having sex. That alone is enough, I think. But I do agree that it would have led to people wondering who Joffrey's father is.

we are pretty sure that Jaime is the father. Ned has no clue that Jaime and Cersei are having sex. At this point, he can only conclude -- given the evidence he has amassed so far -- that Robert is not the father.

And we also know that Jon Aryn was killed because he knew that Robert was not the father. We don't know if he had also figured out about the incest. Although Jaime and Cersei's conversation in episode 1 strongly hinted at that.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> we are pretty sure that Jaime is the father. Ned has no clue that Jaime and Cersei are having sex. At this point, he can only conclude -- given the evidence he has amassed so far -- that Robert is not the father.


Which, in dynastic terms, is all that matters.

The actual paternity is just a sleazy bonus feature!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Which, in dynastic terms, is all that matters.
> 
> The actual paternity is just a sleazy bonus feature!


no argument here on either point (I just wish they would show us the sleazy part again!) 

The issue I have is with people saying that Ned should have figured out about Jaime by now or that a blond kid means Jaime is the father.

I'm still curious to find out how a queen can have sex with her brother (or any man for that matter) without someone(s) knowing about it. It's impossible to do anything in a palace without maids and courtesans noticing.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I'm still curious to find out how a queen can have sex with her brother (or any man for that matter) without someone(s) knowing about it. It's impossible to do anything in a palace without maids and courtesans noticing.


But who would suspect a brother and sister getting it on? They could just be having a private dinner. As far as I know, even Tyrion doesn't suspect, does he?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> But who would suspect it? As far as I know, even Tyrion doesn't suspect, does he?


In the scene when he had breakfast with them at Winterfell (after Bran was hurt, I think), he seemed to imply that there is a secret the three of them know. It could have been anything, just him being a smart-ass.

But it's hard for a queen to take a breath without maids and others noticing it. So when her brother sneaks in, they would notice. Granted, they would just think they're consulting and conspiring, but you figure sooner or later someone would hear thumping/moaning sounds!

They sneaked to an abandoned place in Winterfell to do it, it's much harder to do that often and never get caught in a palace. Sooner or later, you get caught.


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## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

Anubys said:


> In the scene when he had breakfast with them at Winterfell (after Bran was hurt, I think), he seemed to imply that there is a secret the three of them know. It could have been anything, just him being a smart-ass.





Spoiler



The opening chapter in "A Clash of Kings", "Tyrion", has the most shockingly hilarious dialogue in the entire series. Makes me laugh out loud every time. I really hope the HBO series keeps it verbatim next year


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> I'm still curious to find out how a queen can have sex with her brother (or any man for that matter) without someone(s) knowing about it. It's impossible to do anything in a palace without maids and courtesans noticing.


That put a hilarious image into my head -- I can see Jaime complaining, "And we would have got away with it if it weren't for those meddling courtesans.".

The courtesan patrol roves the castle, and when they find illicit sex going on, they admonish "Just what do you think you are doing? That is our job!"


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## dandrewk (Mar 1, 2004)

If those two could push an 8 year old prince out of a high window in order to preserve their secret, imagine what they would do to a lowly servant that discovered the truth.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

dandrewk said:


> If those two could push an 8 year old prince out of a high window in order to preserve their secret, imagine what they would do to a lowly servant that discovered the truth.


Don't forget they killed the hand of the king too.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Don't forget they killed the hand of the king too.


Leaving Robert with just a stump.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

JETarpon said:


> Leaving Robert with just a stump.


lol


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

JETarpon said:


> Leaving Robert with just a stump.


groan.......


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

just finished the first book - no spoilers obv but we are in for quite the ride!!! going to be sooo good !!!


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> We know that because we saw Jaime and the Queen (I know her name, but then there's the issue of spelling it. Too lazy to look it up) together. But is there any reason for Ned to think that the father is necessarily Jaime? It wouldn't have been my first guess, but then maybe he's the only one she's left alone with.


I wasn't saying that Ned knows that Jaime is the father. Like others have since, all that Ned knows (or strongly suspects) is that Robert is not the father.


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## Gromit (Nov 4, 1999)

I've started reading the first book and I'm loving it so far. I kind of expected to be bored since I just watched most of the content in the TV series, but it's so well written and I'm getting much more detail.

I just hope it works the other way around when I pass the show in my reading and I'm not bored watching the show having already read it.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

With scenes like Tyrion's confession, how could you possibly be bored by the show?


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Gromit said:


> I've started reading the first book and I'm loving it so far. I kind of expected to be bored since I just watched most of the content in the TV series, but it's so well written and I'm getting much more detail.


I'm in the same boat. I started reading the book yesterday and am just loving the extra details. I think having watched the movie has helped some, as there are a lot of characters and my familiarity has kept me from getting them mixed up so far.

tk


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## Gromit (Nov 4, 1999)

JETarpon said:


> With scenes like Tyrion's confession, how could you possibly be bored by the show?


Well that's what I'm hoping for. Once I've read more than I've watched, I hope that even though I know what's coming, I'll still enjoy how it's presented.


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## Gromit (Nov 4, 1999)

pendragn said:


> I'm in the same boat. I started reading the book yesterday and am just loving the extra details. I think having watched the movie has helped some, as there are a lot of characters and my familiarity has kept me from getting them mixed up so far.
> 
> tk


I agree. It's much easier to keep up with the characters having watched the first 6 or so episodes of the series. I find myself noting a mental image of the character from the HBO series when they are referenced in the books.

It's kind of like cheating, but I'm loving watching it on TV and loving reading it so far, so I don't care.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Gromit said:


> Well that's what I'm hoping for. Once I've read more than I've watched, I hope that even though I know what's coming, I'll still enjoy how it's presented.


that's been the case for me, anyway. i'm really enjoying the HBO version of this story, they are doing a fabulous job. the only thing i kind of wish is that they were already available so i didn't have to wait weeks!!


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Well, when this season is over we have to wait until April of next year for more, so if a week is a long wait to you (and it is to me, too!) then that year is going to be miserable!


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Why does cable wait so long between seasons? I've been thinking that Walking Dead would be back this summer, but I guess I have to wait until October at least. I've already forgotten most of what happened in the first season. It seems like it would be easier to build an audience if the seasons were closer together. I'm going to start reading the GOT books, so that won't be so bad, but I can't get into reading comics.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Why does cable wait so long between seasons?


Because they have shorter seasons, and they show all the episodes at once (or they have regular-length seasons and show them in two batches months apart).

The problem is we're a nation of whiners. If they have breaks within the season to spread the episodes across the whole year, we whine about the breaks. If they show them all at once, we whine about the gaps between seasons.

Whine whine whine. That's us!


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Because they have shorter seasons, and they show all the episodes at once (or they have regular-length seasons and show them in two batches months apart).
> 
> The problem is we're a nation of whiners. If they have breaks within the season to spread the episodes across the whole year, we whine about the breaks. If they show them all at once, we whine about the gaps between seasons.
> 
> Whine whine whine. That's us!


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

BK89 said:


> Has he never taken a hot bath or been burned before in his entire life?


Ah, *now* I understand why they showed us Dany getting into the steaming hot tub in the first episode.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

crowfan said:


> In the books, the Targaryens were noted for their incest in an attempt to keep the dragon bloodlines pure. If I remember that right. I don't think it's been discussed in the show.


Which raises the question...if it was so important to keep the bloodlines pure that they resorted to incest, then why is it they believe Dany's son will be the great dragon leader or whatever, when he's only going to be a half-blood Targaryen?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I do not have an answer to this but just seeing this thread made me so happy. Cannot wait for April 1.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> I do not have an answer to this but just seeing this thread made me so happy. Cannot wait for April 1.


And on that day, they'll be a re-run of the season finale and a title card stating "tune in next week for the premier" *grin*

--Carlos V.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Unbeliever said:


> And on that day, they'll be a re-run of the season finale and a title card stating "tune in next week for the premier" *grin*


Or else they'll have a title card stating "HA!! April Fool! The show WASN'T RENEWED!!!"


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or else they'll have a title card stating "HA!! April Fool! The show WASN'T RENEWED!!!"


With all the production stills coming out, that would be playing a really dedicated long-game on that prank! *grin*

--Carlos V.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Unbeliever said:


> With all the production stills coming out, that would be playing a really dedicated long-game on that prank! *grin*


It's amazing what they can do with Photoshop these days...


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Which raises the question...if it was so important to keep the bloodlines pure that they resorted to incest, then why is it they believe Dany's son will be the great dragon leader or whatever, when he's only going to be a half-blood Targaryen?


The Targaryens didn't believe that. Viserys thought he was the Dragon and would become king. He only wanted Kal Drogos army to make it happen and he didn't care in the least what happened to Daenerys. The prophecy of the Stallion that would Mount the World was from Drogos people, not the Targaryens. It's a Dothraki prophecy.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

LordKronos said:


> Which raises the question...if it was so important to keep the bloodlines pure that they resorted to incest


Viserys think it's more important to win back the throne so he'd rather sell his sister for the Khal's army. For all we know, after winning back the throne he could have been planning to take his sister back to be his bride. He doesn't respect the dothraki much, and sees his sister as just a dumb girl and his property.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Unbeliever said:


> And on that day, they'll be a re-run of the season finale and a title card stating "tune in next week for the premier" *grin*
> 
> --Carlos V.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or else they'll have a title card stating "HA!! April Fool! The show WASN'T RENEWED!!!"


Noooooo!!! 



Ereth said:


> The Targaryens didn't believe that. Viserys thought he was the Dragon and would become king. He only wanted Kal Drogos army to make it happen and he didn't care in the least what happened to Daenerys. The prophecy of the Stallion that would Mount the World was from Drogos people, not the Targaryens. It's a Dothraki prophecy.





robojerk said:


> Viserys think it's more important to win back the throne so he'd rather sell his sister for the Khal's army. For all we know, after winning back the throne he could have been planning to take his sister back to be his bride. He doesn't respect the dothraki much, and sees his sister as just a dumb girl and his property.


Yes, both of these are correct! Now I have to do a marathon rewatch so I'm all refreshed before season 2 starts!
Oh and weird but I find myself looking most forward to John Snow's story coming up than anything. Didn't see that being the case when I finished season 1. Kinda just snuck up on me over the break. Huh.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Ereth said:


> The Targaryens didn't believe that. Viserys thought he was the Dragon and would become king. He only wanted Kal Drogos army to make it happen and he didn't care in the least what happened to Daenerys. The prophecy of the Stallion that would Mount the World was from Drogos people, not the Targaryens. It's a Dothraki prophecy.


Oops, you are right. I got those 2 mixed up. Thanks for setting me straight.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I do not have an answer to this but just seeing this thread made me so happy.


My pleasure 

I hadn't actually heard of this show before, and a couple of months ago a coworker gave me a copy of the first episode. It's been sitting on my DVR since then, and this week I finally decided to give it a try (though my expectations were sort of low). Wow, it's like a drug. I started monday with 1 episode per day, by Thursday it was 2 per day, and now today it will be 3 episodes once I watch the final episode (which will happen as soon as I click post). The only problem is, what the hell am I gonna do tomorrow?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> My pleasure
> 
> I hadn't actually heard of this show before, and a couple of months ago a coworker gave me a copy of the first episode. It's been sitting on my DVR since then, and this week I finally decided to give it a try (though my expectations were sort of low). Wow, it's like a drug. I started monday with 1 episode per day, by Thursday it was 2 per day, and now today it will be 3 episodes once I watch the final episode (which will happen as soon as I click post). The only problem is, what the hell am I gonna do tomorrow?


Complain about what happened to Ned, I suspect.


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