# Streaming coming to the Premiere - Confirmed



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

rcn-confirms-tivo-premiere-streaming

It looks like the RCN employee accidentally(?) let slip that 14.8 includes some of the necessary framework to support streaming coming to the Premiere.

I just hope it doesn't replace transfers. If TiVo is smart it will offer both options on copy freely content, and offer only streaming on copy once content. Also I wonder if this means we may see a unified My Shows list.


----------



## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

innocentfreak said:


> I just hope it doesn't replace transfers. If TiVo is smart it will offer both options on copy freely content, and offer only streaming on copy once content. Also I wonder if this means we may see a unified My Shows list.


Amen! In my network situation (and no CCI byte issues) I actually prefer copying to streaming for reasons too pedantic to delve into, so I hope copying remains an option. Hopefully Tivo realizes there's multiple cable systems out there with different CCI byte setups.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Anyone think this will allow the Amazon Prime Instant Videos?


----------



## [NG]Owner (Dec 19, 2006)

But will this streaming also be ported to any/all of the Series 3 HD boxes? That's what I want to know. Damn TWC and their CCI bytes!

[NG]Owner


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Test said:


> Anyone think this will allow the Amazon Prime Instant Videos?


No. Streaming recorded content has nothing to do with streaming Amazon Prime. There is already support for streaming on TiVos (aka Netflix and mpeg-4 podcasts). It's up to TiVo to develop the Amazon application to support streaming and I doubt that would require any type of software upgrade to the TiVo itself.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

[NG]Owner;8527874 said:


> But will this streaming also be ported to any/all of the Series 3 HD boxes? That's what I want to know. Damn TWC and their CCI bytes!
> 
> [NG]Owner


Doubt it.

From everything I have read, the Premiere is the first box with a chip powerful enough to stream HD while still performing the normal functions like recording and playback at the same time.


----------



## Tony Chick (Jun 20, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Doubt it.
> 
> From everything I have read, the Premiere is the first box with a chip powerful enough to stream HD while still performing the normal functions like recording and playback at the same time.


In fact it has an entire spare processor core it could use for the task


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

As with all previous Tivo platforms, new and useful features tend to be limited to the latest hardware. Older models don't contain the infrastructure to support streaming. From a business standpoint, it's a pretty shrewd marketing ploy by Tivo to coerce owners of older Tivos to upgrade to the Premiere. It sort of voids any claim that Tivo ever had about not wanting to be a hardware oriented company.

Still, it's a great feature and long overdue. With the new pricing structure Tivo should finally start seeing a higher profit margin (or should I say finally seeing a profit).


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> Also I wonder if this means we may see a unified My Shows list.


sweet - hope they let me exclude certain DVRs of mine from any overall now playing list though.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> sweet - hope they let me exclude certain DVRs of mine from any overall now playing list though.


Even better add user groups like they teased at the announcement in the mock-up screen. This way only shows you selected would display if you filtered the view.

I definitely agree though they really need to give as many customization options as possible.


----------



## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

It will be interesting to see what they allow streaming to. Something like a Roku is cheap enough to be added to any TV in the house and therefore leverage the recording ability of the TiVo, unfortunately the Roku doesn't support MPEG2 decoding....


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

P42 said:


> It will be interesting to see what they allow streaming to. Something like a Roku is cheap enough to be added to any TV in the house and therefore leverage the recording ability of the TiVo, unfortunately the Roku doesn't support MPEG2 decoding....


The Roku does not generate Tivo revenue (well I suppose it would with a licensing deal). I doubt allowing us to have cheap stream receivers is a high priority of Tivo.

It'll be interesting to see how subscription fees play into this. Before I went lifetime-only, streaming would have allowed me to eliminate all but one Tivo from the household. I can't imagine they would want that loss of subscription fees. Increasing the subscription fee based on the number of allowed stream receivers would not surprise me., nor would marketing a slave that required a subscription fee.


----------



## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

True, it would not generate revenue, unless there was some licensing fee or additional subscription fees. The only advantage I see would be in saving TiVo the hardware development costs of creating slave boxes, though I suspect there are several reference designs in existence, and run a "buy one TiVo, watch it from any TV in the house" marketing campaign to attract new customers.
Unlike some (many?) of the TiVo fan base I'm a single TiVo owner, and don't see the value for our household in owning multiples in the near future - so regardless we'd not be impacted. But I'd imagine there are others who would like multiple TiVos but can't or won't justify the costs, and this may be a means of TiVo attracting these customers. 
Of course existing customer who have purchased multiple TiVos will be peeved.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TheWGP said:


> In my network situation (and no CCI byte issues) I actually prefer copying to streaming for reasons too pedantic to delve into


I'm actually curious about your pedantic reasons. Are they for downloading to a computer, or do you mean even cross-Tivo you prefer copying?

I was using copying as a crude space management tool for a while between my S3 (currently dead) and TivoHD.. before I started actually downloading shows to a computer.


----------



## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

P42 said:


> True, it would not generate revenue, unless there was some licensing fee or additional subscription fees. The only advantage I see would be in saving TiVo the hardware development costs of creating slave boxes, though I suspect there are several reference designs in existence, and run a "buy one TiVo, watch it from any TV in the house" marketing campaign to attract new customers.
> Unlike some (many?) of the TiVo fan base I'm a single TiVo owner, and don't see the value for our household in owning multiples in the near future - so regardless we'd not be impacted. But I'd imagine there are others who would like multiple TiVos but can't or won't justify the costs, and this may be a means of TiVo attracting these customers.
> Of course existing customer who have purchased multiple TiVos will be peeved.


 I've bought multiple TiVo's and I would not be pissed. Youre talking about two different things. Streaming between two TiVo boxes which is much better then making a copy of the show because you can actually stream a show while it is recording which is nice. 
The second streaming is when you have one TiVo and a couple of dummy TiVo where you have one TiVo doing all the recording in the household and then you can stream those shows to dummy boxes so you can watch it on any TV in the house. That type of system you are only going to see through a MSO type setting. I'm 95% sure of that. In order for this to be affective is if you have more than two turners. I can't see recording a house full of shows with just two tuners.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

mattack said:


> I'm actually curious about your pedantic reasons. Are they for downloading to a computer, or do you mean even cross-Tivo you prefer copying?
> 
> I was using copying as a crude space management tool for a while between my S3 (currently dead) and TivoHD.. before I started actually downloading shows to a computer.


Both for downloading to a pc and also TiVo to TiVo copying at least for me.

I like to fast forward and rewind and streaming isnt good for that. There are also potential network issues that can arise and interrupt playback. It is like fast forwarding and rewinding a DVD compared to a stream. It just doesn't work as well.


----------



## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

mattack said:


> I'm actually curious about your pedantic reasons. Are they for downloading to a computer, or do you mean even cross-Tivo you prefer copying?
> 
> I was using copying as a crude space management tool for a while between my S3 (currently dead) and TivoHD.. before I started actually downloading shows to a computer.


In my case it's actually a combination of things:

The #1 reason is - oftentimes we'll transfer a show for the kids and having it in the list of shows rather than having to transfer is often handy.

Also:
- network traffic is occasionally congested (there are several other wireless-n-5-ghz devices in the same room as one of the Tivos, with automated file transfer and backups going, and if I'm

- Streaming vs. copying is really kind of irrelevant for my purposes when the file transfer goes as fast as it does now with Premier-to-Premier transfers. I can download a file from the Tivo or stream a file to the Tivo and see pretty much the same speeds - the only difference is that the streaming stops and starts as the buffer is filled up. In that situation, the only possible downside really is that the transfer gets interrupted due to some kind of network issue - and streaming spreads the transfer over a longer period of time, so statistically speaking copying has less susceptibility to network issues.

- I have an extender on one Tivo - recently I switched the extender from one Tivo to another. Copying let me save all my recordings without hassle... though that was more a side benefit than anything, admittedly.

- Occasionally ff/rewind has been an issue with streaming - it usually WORKS fine but it can be laggy and I imagine it could have issues if I used it more / used it a LOT.

Like I said... this is pedantic, nitpicky, tiny-chance-of-things-going-wrong stuff, with the exception of wanting to have a COPY for the kids upstairs that we can play locally without worrying about transferring right then. Even that is more a convenience factor - sometimes early in the morning we want to just hit "play" rather than scroll all the way down, navigate, hit transfer... etc, etc. - the convenience factor there is high.


----------



## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

I'd love to have streaming from a desktop. Streaming between Tivo units would be great, but I could live with just streaming from the desktop. When you've got a kid that really likes a given set of programs it's tedious to keep copying/deleting them all the time. I'd much rather pull them off the Tivo to a desktop machine with a lot more disk space and then stream them back as needed. No local housekeeping to deal with on the Tivo. Just let me select them with the regular Tivo UI and I'm happy.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wkearney99 said:


> I'd love to have streaming from a desktop. Streaming between Tivo units would be great, but I could live with just streaming from the desktop.


Uh, yeah, we have that already. Granted it's not perfect...


Streambaby
HME/VLC


----------



## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

Count me as one who will be severely disappointed if they go all streaming and remove the copying ability. I've only been hit with the CCI byte once and I love having the full file on the Tivo ready to FF,RW,SKIP, etc.. 
As a matter of fact, I figure I pay Tivo about $24 a month now just to avoid those streaming boxes. If Tivo goes all streaming, I'm dropping them and will just get some streamers without the monthly charge.


----------



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

Tony Chick said:


> In fact it has an entire spare processor core it could use for the task


----------



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

smbaker said:


> The Roku does not generate Tivo revenue (well I suppose it would with a licensing deal). I doubt allowing us to have cheap stream receivers is a high priority of Tivo.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how subscription fees play into this. Before I went lifetime-only, streaming would have allowed me to eliminate all but one Tivo from the household. I can't imagine they would want that loss of subscription fees. Increasing the subscription fee based on the number of allowed stream receivers would not surprise me., nor would marketing a slave that required a subscription fee.


I see a Premiere, complete with CableCard (for live TV- eliminating a cable box at least) with no HDD, only 4GB on board for buffer, etc.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Making HTPC look better each day.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bschuler2007 said:


> Count me as one who will be severely disappointed if they go all streaming and remove the copying ability. I've only been hit with the CCI byte once and I love having the full file on the Tivo ready to FF,RW,SKIP, etc..
> As a matter of fact, I figure I pay Tivo about $24 a month now just to avoid those streaming boxes. If Tivo goes all streaming, I'm dropping them and will just get some streamers without the monthly charge.


Would they actually do this and render TiVo Desktop useless for transferring TiVo content to the PC.
I hope not.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Videodrome said:


> Making HTPC look better each day.


Because TiVo is adding functionality?



aaronwt said:


> Would they actually do this and render TiVo Desktop useless for transferring TiVo content to the PC.
> I hope not.


I don't think they would to that either.

I think it is more a fear they will just replace the transfer option on the TiVos so you can only stream TiVo to TiVo and no longer transfer shows between TiVos.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

innocentfreak said:


> Because TiVo is adding functionality?
> 
> I don't think they would to that either.
> 
> I think it is more a fear they will just replace the transfer option on the TiVos so you can only stream TiVo to TiVo and no longer transfer shows between TiVos.


Well their removing full transfer, for streaming. Really Tivo hasnt improved in over 5 years. The premiere is trash. I can do internet tv from my Sony, including DLNA. Whats the point ? Tivo might copy Moxi, or HTPC ?


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Videodrome said:


> Well their removing full transfer, for streaming. Really Tivo hasnt improved in over 5 years. The premiere is trash. I can do internet tv from my Sony, including DLNA. Whats the point ? Tivo might copy Moxi, or HTPC ?


No one said that. We said we were afraid they might do that is all. No one knows anything about streaming other than that RCN mentioned it with regards to 14.8 beta users.

It could very well only offer streaming when transfers aren't an option.

Speak for yourself though, I like the new HDUI and use the integrated search constantly. I do wish they would focus on core DVR functionality, but it is still the best DVR for me.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> Because TiVo is adding functionality?


If by adding functionality it also means a Tivo extender box with required Cablecard, then yes an HTPC looks better. One Cablecard is a whole lot better than 4 or so.

Well, we can also hope that they would release a 4-tuner Tivo with an 'extender' that doesn't require a card (like the Moxi), but that truly is wishful thinking IMO.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

bschuler2007 said:


> Count me as one who will be severely disappointed if they go all streaming and remove the copying ability. I've only been hit with the CCI byte once and I love having the full file on the Tivo ready to FF,RW,SKIP, etc..
> As a matter of fact, I figure I pay Tivo about $24 a month now just to avoid those streaming boxes. If Tivo goes all streaming, I'm dropping them and will just get some streamers without the monthly charge.


You could just switch back to the Tivo HD.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I wouldn't use the streaming functionality if it doesn't allow me to fast forward through commercials. Even the current copy functionality is marginal because you have to wait at least several minutes before you start watching to be able to fast forward through commercials and not run out of content. 

Another issue is being able to adjust the aspect correction mode while streaming. Netflix streaming didn't allow me to adjust the aspect correction mode. There are still lots of programs being broadcast with black pillar bars on the side. I probably wouldn't use streaming for pillar barred programming, if I couldn't adjust the aspect correction mode.


----------



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> If by adding functionality it also means a Tivo extender box with required Cablecard, then yes an HTPC looks better. One Cablecard is a whole lot better than 4 or so.
> 
> Well, we can also hope that they would release a 4-tuner Tivo with an 'extender' that doesn't require a card (like the Moxi), but that truly is wishful thinking IMO.


Sorry, but I don't buy it. I have a friend who hates his Moxi because he doesn't have enough tuners available for the box and the two mates to share. Instead, he has to have both a Moxi Mate and a cable box at those two extra TVs.

If you had an HTPC with a 6 tuner or two four tuner cards (two cable cards), I could see that for a family of four.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

shwru980r said:


> I wouldn't use the streaming functionality if it doesn't allow me to fast forward through commercials.


Nothing with streaming stops you from either skipping or FF/REW'ing, most DVRs already do this (Replays and Media Center are two that I know of). I'm sure a Tivo implementation would work the same - it's only content that the providers don't want you to skip that's restricted when streaming.

In fact, if done right streaming would be better than transfers for this, because you can skip to any point in the file without having to wait for all of it to transfer.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

larrs said:


> If you had an HTPC with a 6 tuner or two four tuner cards (two cable cards), I could see that for a family of four.


Exactly my point, and that is doable now. Of course you have to put up with sucky extenders if going the WMC route.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

slowbiscuit said:


> Nothing with streaming stops you from either skipping or FF/REW'ing, most DVRs already do this (Replays and Media Center are two that I know of). I'm sure a Tivo implementation would work the same - it's only content that the providers don't want you to skip that's restricted when streaming.
> 
> In fact, if done right streaming would be better than transfers for this, because you can skip to any point in the file without having to wait for all of it to transfer.


It doesn't work nearly as well though is the point. I couldn't stand FF/Rewing 7MC on my 360. It wasn't as accurate to control and you can't see what you are FFing/REWing. I found the experience frustrating. This is the same reason I tend to prefer Netflix DVDs over instant streaming. Now if you don't FF or REW a lot you won't notice it, but if you are watching a show where you may only want to see one or two parts it is a pain.

My transfers don't take long enough for it to be an issue. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes to transfer a HD hour show, and I just usually queue up a bunch before I start watching anything.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> Exactly my point, and that is doable now. Of course you have to put up with sucky extenders if going the WMC route.


Not anymore. Now that Ceton has released their tuner sharing app you can use separate HTPCs at each TV and keep the tuners and recording folder on one PC. I'm not sure how it would work to share recordings between PCs, but I assume as long as they are flagged as copy freely there shouldn't be any issues. Folks lucky enough to be on FIOS (like me ) will be able to stream programming between any PC in the house. Having individual WMC PCs as opposed to one WMC HTPC and multiple extenders means that you are no longer hampered by the codec limitations of an extender.

I've already put in my pre-order with Newegg for the SiliconDust triple-tuner HDHomeRun Prime, which is due to ship at the end of June. The six tuner version is also set to start shipping around the same time. With my current setup I'll have a total of seven digital cablecard tuners and four ATSC tuners, although I have extra ATSC tuners sitting around that could be put into service at a moment's notice.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Streaming is for those that want to watch Tivo in other rooms, but don't want to shell out the $500 for another Premiere. MIght be a small market, but who knows.

Or maybe it's so you can watch the shows that can't be copied over. Or maybe it is streaming to the IPad. Argh.

Ideally the stream would start within a few seconds and the program would be cached in the background while you watch so you could more quickly skip to anywhere in the program. 

STreaming on the ATV from iTunes on a Mac works like this. It is quite responsive. 

But whether the Premiere can record 2 programs, playback a live program and stream another program is another question. Bandwidth is also a concern. I stream 2gb files from my Mac. No HD. Just DVD-quality. Hi-def shows on the Premiere take up much more space. Could they maintain responsiveness with those large files?


----------



## TheWGP (Oct 26, 2007)

innocentfreak said:


> My transfers don't take long enough for it to be an issue. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes to transfer a HD hour show, and I just usually queue up a bunch before I start watching anything.


+1 - the transfers are just so goshdarn fast now for me that I don't even think about it. It's hard for me to get over because I went from tivohd with wireless G & premiere with wireless G directly to Premiere with wireless N 5ghz & Premiere with wired... so it's been a night and day difference for me.


----------



## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

I do hope it is like some assume, stream only when copying isn't allowed. I have yet to see any streamed movie equal the quality of a copied movie. I could easily live with streaming only CCI byte shows.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

for tivo to tivo the qualtiy SHOULD be exacly the same as it SHOULD stream the native data to the second device. Its only if the stream needs to leave the local network to a non-tivo device that the quality would likely suffer due to lower bandwidth and having to transcode to a different format.

A good example is available to us now. Stream a HD movie to the tivo premiere via Streambaby and then view the same movie file by having pytivo push it. The quality will be EXACTLY the same if the bandwidth is sufficient on the local network. You are viewing the SAME data either way.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> Streaming is for those that want to watch Tivo in other rooms, but don't want to shell out the $500 for another Premiere. MIght be a small market, but who knows.
> 
> Or maybe it's so you can watch the shows that can't be copied over. Or maybe it is streaming to the IPad. Argh.
> 
> ...


That is not an issue. Even the S3/TiVoHD could do that. You could be recording two HD programs, downloading an HD program from Amazon VOD and watching a previously recorded HD program.
The Premiere can handle it with no problems.

HD shows don't use too much bandwidth(at most 19mb/s). Even my old slow 5400 rpm IDE drives from back in 2001 had no problem handling multiple HD streams from my HD recordings back then.

Now what would be an issue with the old S3/TiVoHD are it's ethernet transfer speeds. They were rather slow, only 25mbs to 35mbs while the Premiere hits 85mb/s to 95mb/s. Which is fast enough to handle multiple streams. I have no idea what kind of overhead they would nead but you would think that would be sufficient to stream to two extenders reliably.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> That is not an issue. Even the S3/TiVoHD could do that. You could be recording two HD programs, downloading an HD program from Amazon VOD and watching a previously recorded HD program.
> The Premiere can handle it with no problems.
> 
> HD shows don't use too much bandwidth(at most 19mb/s). Even my old slow 5400 rpm IDE drives from back in 2001 had no problem handling multiple HD streams from my HD recordings back then.
> ...


Yeah streaming has to be real-time while a download can take its own sweet time. So not quite the same. But yeah I'm probably just skeptical because the Premiere UI isn't very responsive. 

I was thinking about wireless networks and responsiveness of the streaming when thinking about the bandwidth of HD shows on the Premiere. Anybody with wired connections should be in great shape.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

trip1eX said:


> Yeah streaming has to be real-time while a download can take its own sweet time. So not quite the same. But yeah I'm probably just skeptical because the Premiere UI isn't very responsive.
> 
> I was thinking about wireless networks and responsiveness of the streaming when thinking about the bandwidth of HD shows on the Premiere. Anybody with wired connections should be in great shape.


adding..

Even netflix caches about 1-4 mins of video. So it most likely a stream would allow this, if it didnt it wouldnt be possible to stream.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> From everything I have read, the Premiere is the first box with a chip powerful enough to stream HD while still performing the normal functions like recording and playback at the same time.


To do so reliably, yes. It would work, but I wouldn't bet on the outcome. Wireless support in particular would be iffy at best.


----------



## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

lrhorer said:


> To do so reliably, yes. It would work, but I wouldn't bet on the outcome. Wireless support in particular would be iffy at best.


I would imagine streaming HD on a G wireless network (and even some N networks) would certainly be iffy at best. I can stream .tivo files from my raid storage to my laptop anywhere in my house 99% of the time without an issue. The only time I've experienced any stuttering was during a background process on the laptop and when I was streaming the same time I was transcoding video on the desktop connected to the raid storage. I have N wireless BTW. I wonder if people experiencing streaming issues now (like with NetFlix or other services) will also experience issues streaming from the Premiere to other devices?


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

innocentfreak said:


> It doesn't work nearly as well though is the point. I couldn't stand FF/Rewing 7MC on my 360. It wasn't as accurate to control and you can't see what you are FFing/REWing. I found the experience frustrating. This is the same reason I tend to prefer Netflix DVDs over instant streaming. Now if you don't FF or REW a lot you won't notice it, but if you are watching a show where you may only want to see one or two parts it is a pain.
> 
> My transfers don't take long enough for it to be an issue. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes to transfer a HD hour show, and I just usually queue up a bunch before I start watching anything.


I fast forward and rewind almost everything I watch to skip commercials. I would want streaming FF/REW to be as accurate as watching on the original Tivo. I wouldn't expect the Tivo implementation of streaming to be any better than what is out there now.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Good to see all the support for full copies where possible. I've felt like a voice in the wilderness amongst all the people calling for streaming. I've yet to see a streaming application on any platform that provides the same quality and experience (FF/RW/Skip) as TiVo's progressive copy method.

The best case would that when you're looking at the remote list of programs the logic would present a "Transfer" option when the item is not copy protected and there is local storage available. A "Watch Now" option would stream or copy depending on whether transfers are allowed and storage is available. 

Even if "Watch Now" would always stream as long as there's a "Transfer" option you could start a transfer and then manually play as it's transferring.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ufo4sale said:


> ... Streaming between two TiVo boxes which is much better then making a copy of the show because you can actually stream a show while it is recording which is nice.....


we dont know this. the original reason the current implementation of MRV forces you to wait for the show to finish recording before transfer is because the NFL had a cow when tivo originally announced it. Tivo made some deal with the NFL so the games would need to be over before you could copy so that you couldn't set up a tivo in one city and share with your friend in another making their cash cow sunday ticket less valuable.

Hopefully tivo grew a set big enough to tell the NFL to get over it, but the way they suck up to content owners it's not a given in my mind.


----------



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

bschuler2007 said:


> I do hope it is like some assume, stream only when copying isn't allowed. I have yet to see any streamed movie equal the quality of a copied movie. I could easily live with streaming only CCI byte shows.


Why not a menu box that says "stream this show to this DVR", or "copy this show to this DVR". If not allowed have the red ring with the slash through it beside that option.

Seems simple to me.


----------



## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

MichaelK said:


> we dont know this. the original reason the current implementation of MRV forces you to wait for the show to finish recording before transfer is because the NFL had a cow when tivo originally announced it. Tivo made some deal with the NFL so the games would need to be over before you could copy so that you couldn't set up a tivo in one city and share with your friend in another making their cash cow sunday ticket less valuable.
> 
> Hopefully tivo grew a set big enough to tell the NFL to get over it, but the way they suck up to content owners it's not a given in my mind.


I will bet cash money that that is not the case. I'm willing to give you 10 bucks if Im wrong. That's how confident I am. When they release the feature refer back to this post and come back to collect if Im wrong.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ufo4sale said:


> I will bet cash money that that is not the case. I'm willing to give you 10 bucks if Im wrong. That's how confident I am. When they release the feature refer back to this post and come back to collect if Im wrong.


I am not clear which part you side you are betting on since he gave both options. I know I have heard the same thing about the NFL issues which is why you can't transfer something currently recording.

Also like his post, I could see TiVo possibly allowing streaming a show currently recording since it would most likely be limited to the local network only. Also like his post, I could see TiVo requiring a show to be finished recording before allowing streaming, but I see it more from a technical reason. I just see them potentially deciding it is better and there are less likely to be issues with a recording if you don't try to stream it at the same time.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I just did some testing and the Premiere is now using six concurrent streams. On one box it is transferring *from* another Premiere, transferring *to* another Premiere, downloading from Amazon, recording two channels, and also playing back a previously recorded show.
Previously it would only transfer to/from one box at a time as well as downloading from amazon. All those were queued one after another


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Nice. Were the speeds the same or did they drop some as a result?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Nice. Were the speeds the same or did they drop some as a result?


I know the download speed from Amazon slowed. The transfer from another box was still at faster than realtime


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Thats cool, I am more excited about the remote deletion though since I have been asking for that for a while.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

MichaelK said:


> we dont know this. the original reason the current implementation of MRV forces you to wait for the show to finish recording before transfer is because the NFL had a cow when tivo originally announced it. Tivo made some deal with the NFL so the games would need to be over before you could copy so that you couldn't set up a tivo in one city and share with your friend in another making their cash cow sunday ticket less valuable.
> 
> Hopefully Tivo grew a set big enough to tell the NFL to get over it, but the way they suck up to content owners it's not a given in my mind.


I thought the current copy functionality required both Tivos to be registered to the same account and be on the same sub network.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

shwru980r said:


> I thought the current copy functionality required both Tivos to be registered to the same account and be on the same sub network.


It does. This was prior to the feature being released though so it wasn't known.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I'm more interested in how it will be displayed. Some type of unified My Shows would be awesome (especially if configurable). Then, the user doesn't care/need to know if it is on that box or not, they just hit play and it plays. This would allow you to setup your own cooperative scheduling setup yourself and not have to deal with copying shows back and forth to get the benefit.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> I thought the current copy functionality required both Tivos to be registered to the same account and be on the same sub network.


Yes. But you could easily set up a VPN and transfer from the TiVos over the internet.


----------



## kathpdx (May 27, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Yes. But you could easily set up a VPN ...


File THIS away in the "I need to learn how to do this" category!!! Thanks for mentioning it.


----------



## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> My transfers don't take long enough for it to be an issue. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes to transfer a HD hour show, and I just usually queue up a bunch before I start watching anything.


Sure, that works... when you want to have a copy of the program locally. But if you don't then streaming is a great alternative.

Several reasons come to mind, one being disc space. The other being content you don't want to watch again any time soon. For kids programming it's nice to be able to have a bunch of episodes stashed off on a Tivo Desktop PC and pulled back from there, instead of wasting a lot of space on the local drive. Disc space on a PC is a helluva lot cheaper and more versatile than locally in the Tivo.

The ideal situation would be for the Tivo to be able to queue up the content on the local disc in order to provide the excellent UI the native player provides. As in, not the miserable one that comes with the Netflix player.

I think the biggest downside to remote content is the separation of it in the UI. You have to go digging through different menus in order to get to it. Each time there's a delay. It'd be fantastic to be able to have the remote programming integrated right into the NPL itself.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

wkearney99 said:


> Sure, that works... when you want to have a copy of the program locally. But if you don't then streaming is a great alternative.
> 
> Several reasons come to mind, one being disc space. The other being content you don't want to watch again any time soon. For kids programming it's nice to be able to have a bunch of episodes stashed off on a Tivo Desktop PC and pulled back from there, instead of wasting a lot of space on the local drive. Disc space on a PC is a helluva lot cheaper and more versatile than locally in the Tivo.


This is pretty much how I do it though. My content is stored on my server including TiVo recordings. I just pull or push with PyTiVo the shows I want to watch and delete them from the TiVo when done. They are still left on the server if or until I decide to delete them.

Any of my older recordings are already saved to my server so space isn't an issue on my TiVos. I use KMTTG with the setting to grab recordings older than so many hours.


----------



## jseeley (Mar 29, 2011)

shwru980r said:


> Netflix streaming didn't allow me to adjust the aspect correction mode. There are still lots of programs being broadcast with black pillar bars on the side. I probably wouldn't use streaming for pillar barred programming, if I couldn't adjust the aspect correction mode.


you CAN adjust the aspect ration for Netflix, just not AS it's actually streaming in the netflix app. If you go back to live TV and set the mode you want, then go back to Netflix, it will be changed.

YES, its completely silly, but it works...


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

ufo4sale said:


> I will bet cash money that that is not the case. I'm willing to give you 10 bucks if Im wrong. That's how confident I am. When they release the feature refer back to this post and come back to collect if Im wrong.


i hope you are correct that tivo will allow real time streaming. It's my hope too. And I also agree that it's more likely than not that they will ignore the NFL stipulations.

But I think we shouldn't assume anything- its not a fact until tivo says it's a fact (or someone sees it on a box in the wild).


----------



## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> rcn-confirms-tivo-premiere-streaming
> 
> It looks like the RCN employee accidentally(?) let slip that 14.8 includes some of the necessary framework to support streaming coming to the Premiere.
> 
> I just hope it doesn't replace transfers. If TiVo is smart it will offer both options on copy freely content, and offer only streaming on copy once content. Also I wonder if this means we may see a unified My Shows list.


Did anyone notice that the original post on DSLreports has been edited to omit the streaming feature? That can't be good.


----------



## rdodolak (Dec 18, 2008)

Philmatic said:


> Did anyone notice that the original post on DSLreports has been edited to omit the streaming feature? That can't be good.


I noticed that too ... could be that RCN let the cat out of the bag before TiVo wanted that info released.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Yeah it is no different than TiVo and Hulu pulling the screens and pages that went up early.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

wkearney99 said:


> Sure, that works... when you want to have a copy of the program locally. But if you don't then streaming is a great alternative.
> 
> Several reasons come to mind, one being disc space. The other being content you don't want to watch again any time soon. For kids programming it's nice to be able to have a bunch of episodes stashed off on a Tivo Desktop PC and pulled back from there, instead of wasting a lot of space on the local drive. Disc space on a PC is a helluva lot cheaper and more versatile than locally in the Tivo.


Yeah, or copying to DVD, or to a portable device like a laptop when you travel. In addition, not only is PC disk space potentially cheaper, there is a hell of a lot more of it available. My video server is currently 18TB. Adding another 3TB is only $149 at this time. There's also the relaibility issue. If a hard drive goes out on a RAID array, it's no big deal. If a hard drive goes out on the TiVo, one probably loses all the recordings, or nearly so. What's more, one can (should) have backups of all the data on the array, so even a total array failure will not lose the videos.


----------



## macjeepster (Sep 2, 2007)

Videodrome said:


> . The premiere is trash. I can do internet tv from my Sony, including DLNA. Whats the point ? Tivo might copy Moxi, or HTPC ?


Sure, there are a few lockups, but for me they're growing far less frequent. There is no better DVR when used with the iPad app.

-mj


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> Yeah, or copying to DVD, or to a portable device like a laptop when you travel. In addition, not only is PC disk space potentially cheaper, there is a hell of a lot more of it available. My video server is currently 18TB. Adding another 3TB is only $149 at this time. There's also the relaibility issue. If a hard drive goes out on a RAID array, it's no big deal. If a hard drive goes out on the TiVo, one probably loses all the recordings, or nearly so. What's more, one can (should) have backups of all the data on the array, so even a total array failure will not lose the videos.


Hard to back up data when you get to a certain storage point. Even though I have over One Hundred Terabytes of storage available on my home network most of it is in use. I have over 60TB just in HD content. There is no way I could back up all that in addition to the local redundancy my servers, RAID5 arrays, and NAS devices have.


----------

