# Kid Nation 9/19/07



## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

After all the hype, I found this show met my high expectations. I think each kid has a very unique personality and it'll be fun to watch how it evolves over the course of the season.

I'm just waiting to see which "kid leader" is sacked first...


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

That was a cute show! I'm a bit disappointed with the Survivor style challenge but overall it was quite enjoyable. 

The teenage boys irritate the hell out of me which is probably why they're on the show. I don't think the gold star is going to be enough to make them behave. More than a couple of the kids seem to have some real leadership qualities. It'll take another episode or two before I get the names down though.

I'll definitely tune in next week. For a reality show, it's a nice change of pace.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I watched the 1st half and as soon as the kids were divided into "tribes" I got a very strong feeling to turn it off. So I did.


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## MasterOfPuppets (Jul 12, 2005)

Watched about the first 10 minutes.
Turned it over to Deal Or No Deal's NFL thing.
Picked the wrong Play At Home case.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Interesting concept. Sure there are problems, and some of it comes off like Survivor, but that keeps it interesting. 

Kids find kitchen and recipes: "Let's make ice cream!!" LOL

How long until someone gets the idea to have a "Speaking Stick" or something similar. Everyone talking at once in a meeting doesn't get much done. 

Kids win challenge, have to decide on 7 more toilets or a TV. I laughed when the one leader said "We need something to do" about the TV. Only TV is not something to do, it does pass the time, but it is not an active pursuit. Meanwhile, the town is falling down.

Oh, did anyone else notice the Vagisil and Icy Hot commercials? What the heck? The target demographic for the show has got to be 8-14 year old kids, didn't the ad sales people think before they placed those ads during Kid Nation?


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

Well, we learned that Jered can speak in tongues.


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## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

I wasnt sure what to think but this is a winner so far for me. I too thought about the speaking stick. I would have killed for an opportunity like that when i was 8-15.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Odds Bodkins said:


> Well, we learned that Jered can speak in tongues.


I think Jared is "special".

And your kid can apply for Kid Nation 2 here:

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/kid_nation/


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Pretty cool show. The only thing that griped me that it ran about 4 to 5 minutes longer. Missed the beginning of Kitchen Nightmares.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

A+ For me, At the start I did not like Mike he wasn't doing anything!!. I did not like the Teens(Greg to name one). kinda sad Jimmy went home so fast. :down:


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

I REALLY wanted to hate this show. But I couldn't. I got nervous when they divided them into teams, but it's not striking me as Survivor-like. 40 kids all together is just unmanageable for young leaders. Split into subgroups, there's actually an opportunity for leaders to grow and emerge.

For the record, I'm still of the opinion that the production of this show violates federal labor law. But I'll keep watching.


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

I didn't bother. Now you guys are making me wish I'd TiVoed it.


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

AJRitz said:


> I REALLY wanted to hate this show. But I couldn't. I got nervous when they divided them into teams, but it's not striking me as Survivor-like. 40 kids all together is just unmanageable for young leaders. Split into subgroups, there's actually an opportunity for leaders to grow and emerge.
> 
> For the record, I'm still of the opinion that the production of this show violates federal labor law. But I'll keep watching.


There are exceptions. I believe that farming rules are slightly tweaked. I can see this show falling into that category.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

OK not bad. I wasn't going to watch this, but the thread said it has possibilities. 

Looks like the kids can win some good money, $20K.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

Philly Bill said:


> I didn't bother. Now you guys are making me wish I'd TiVoed it.


I don't think you missed anything. I gave up after 15 minutes.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Well, this earned a season pass from me. 

There were several good moments. Jimmy telling the 15 year old he didn't want him to be his wingman was classic!

I was actually very surprised that the young leaders got past Sophia's criticism at the town meeting and still awarded her the star. 

There seem to be some pretty good kids on this show. I know it has been only one week and who knows how they edit it but Michael (the long haired kid who gave the speech) seemed pretty grounded and Laurel seemed like she was the rock there to help support others.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

DLL66 said:


> There are exceptions. I believe that farming rules are slightly tweaked. I can see this show falling into that category.


Yes, there are exceptions. However, I do not believe that any of the exceptions would adequately cover the show. CBS' "excuse" has been that they were simply running a "summer camp." That ceased to be a reasonable explanation the minute that CBS sold the "camp video" to advertisers.

I prosecute child labor violations for the United States Department of Labor. To be honest, I'm disappointed that the appropriate Wage & Hour field office didn't investigate. I'd have been comfortable pursuing the case if it had been investigated in my region.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

This was a really enjoyable show. Kids do say and do the funniest things, and that's fun to watch.

A few things surprised me. Right off the bat, there were kids that littered the town with graffiti. Very annoying - there's always one in every bunch that causes trouble. 

Also it was surprising to me that the kids split off into groups of similar age. I suppose it made them feel more comfortable to be around kids of their own age, but none of them really thought that it would be nicer to have a mixture of age/experience on each team.

Definite season pass for me.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

So is Al Gore's son hosting this show or what?!?!? 

I liked it a lot. I'll be watching.


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## omnibus (Sep 25, 2001)

Sophia's joy at winning the star and being able to call her mother came right through the TV screen.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I love the different accents. They sound so much thicker then the typical adult accent.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

The concept of the show always intrigued me. Did not disappoint. It is very interesting to remember how savvy some kids can be at those young ages, but also how vulnerable and naive they can be at the same time.

Definately will be interesting to see how it progresses.

If they are violating labor laws, then I want my chunk of change. I never got to "buy" candy and soda at my summer camps as a kid. And I didn't get paid for going either. If all children were as exploited as these poor tykes.

Pretty much anyone on a reality show is exploited. They payouts are always ridiculous versus the value to the networks and production companies. 

Anyways, back on track.. looking forward to the rest of this season. I wonder with 40 days if each week will be 7 days in terms of meetings and such or they will have a shorter schedule.


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## speaker city (Sep 28, 2005)

My brother and I watched this show with our jaws' on the floor. I had heard about the show but hadn't seen any previews. I thought for sure there would be massive failure along the lines of Lord of the Flies or Animal Farm. I'm amazed that OSHA didn't shut that operation down the first day. That being said, I liked the show a lot. 

I'm 24. No offspring. No young siblings, cousins, nieces or nephews. So I was pretty impressed that the kids were able to organize and accomplish tasks like cooking and serious manual labor. Some of the kids are really cool and seem to be on the ball. Others are little punks. So I enjoyed the kids themselves and look forward to getting to know them and watch them progress. Season Passed. 

Back to the labor issue, I'm having a hard time understanding how they got away with some of this stuff. One outhouse for how many kids? Children pulling mule carts and doing heavy lifting? Cooking with primitive stoves? Acts of violence that could be considered assault? Somethin's not addin up here.


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## grant33 (Jun 11, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> Oh, did anyone else notice the Vagisil and Icy Hot commercials?


What are these "commercials" of which you speak?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

grant33 said:


> What are these "commercials" of which you speak?


We are traveling this week and so were without TiVo last night for the show. While I did notice the commercial content, I also noted that the first commercial came at around minute 38 in the show. That was pretty nice.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Would this show be acceptable to watch for a 3.5-year old, with me by his side? My son saw a glimpse of it last night and wanted to see it. I haven't watched it yet.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Would this show be acceptable to watch for a 3.5-year old, with me by his side?


IMO, yes. Perfectly acceptable for kids.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

It was interesting that after the first debacle at cooking that all the kids thought the food at the other meals was great. Of course, almost anything tastes good when you are really working hard but the biscuits did look quite good. 

They apparently picked some farm kids so they knew how to take care of the animals. There were kids that knew how to milk goats (and snag them when they escaped  ) and deal with the chickens.

I'm curious how much supervision they really had. Obviously, the camera people are adults and I am sure the kids would have had a tendancy to ask them for help since they were the adults that were around. Equally sure the camera people were told to butt out unless the kids were in real danger. 

I will keep the SP for now and see how it develops.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

speaker city said:


> Back to the labor issue, I'm having a hard time understanding how they got away with some of this stuff. One outhouse for how many kids? Children pulling mule carts and doing heavy lifting? Cooking with primitive stoves? Acts of violence that could be considered assault? Somethin's not addin up here.


Well, they probably spelled all that out in the contracts and made it clear to the parents as well as the kids what they would be facing. Plus, there are adults there, just behind the camera. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a "safety" coordinator and medics waiting just in case. And what "acts of violence" did you see? I saw the kids yelling at each other, running around etc. but that was in relation to the different teams. They were getting pumped up to beat the other teams, not beating each other with pipes.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I would have to believe that they have a production crew that is at least as prepared - if not moreso - than the crew on Survivor to handle just about anything. CBS is obviously not going to be putting these kids at risk. And I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some kind of counselors on hand as well.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

It was sweet how all the kids really seemed to like Jimmy and wanted him to stay and tried to encourage him to stay.


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> I would have to believe that they have a production crew that is at least as prepared - if not moreso - than the crew on Survivor to handle just about anything. CBS is obviously not going to be putting these kids at risk. And I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some kind of counselors on hand as well.


Entertainment tonight had an interview with 5 of the kids and the host. The kids all said the critics are making much ado of nothing. They did have counselors they could talk to when needed and they were able to call home at anytime. Also the host stated the producers, camera operators, paramedics as well as pediatricians were all available 24/7 just in case.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Oh I bet the kids got some training on how to use the stove properly and how to get water. Plus there is probably medical staff really close and the camera people probably have radios they can call if the kids were doing something seriously dangerous.

Well they technically did not get around the child labor laws. The state of New Mexico is ticked because this is not what CBS told them they would be doing with the kids and did not have a state rep from child welfare watching production. Also the contracts the parents signed basically turned over the kids to CBS for 40 days that is also why some parents are pissed. 

No one knows how they will shoot a season 2 since no state will let them shoot this because of the violation of child labor laws. They will probably have to go abroad.

Now the girl who won the gold star, she is more of an adult than most adults I know. Some of these kids are just amazing and the way they speak is nothing like I could have ever dreamed at that age.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The first half had some serious pacing / editting issues. The second half was much better and might make me continue to watch. Maybe.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I liked it, but I think the age gap needs to be fixed. I felt so sorry for Jimmy and I'm glad he went home. He was REALLY too young to be there. I mean, 8-15 is a BIG gab...of course the 15 year olds are going to try to trample the 8 year olds. It should've been more like 10 to 13. 13 and up are teenagers, not "kids" so I really wasn't expecting to see 14 and 15 year olds on this show.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Wasn't the Mom of the kid who won the $20,000 the one on all the Entertainment shows backing this show, when all the bad press started? $20,000? now I know why.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

mwhip said:


> Now the girl who won the gold star, she is more of an adult than most adults I know. Some of these kids are just amazing and the way they speak is nothing like I could have ever dreamed at that age.


Funny you said that...



Spoiler



In one of the extended previews for the fall season, there was a quote from her saying something like "I am a 30 year old trapped in a 14 year olds body.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> I liked it, but I think the age gap needs to be fixed. I felt so sorry for Jimmy and I'm glad he went home. He was REALLY too young to be there. I mean, 8-15 is a BIG gab...of course the 15 year olds are going to try to trample the 8 year olds. It should've been more like 10 to 13. 13 and up are teenagers, not "kids" so I really wasn't expecting to see 14 and 15 year olds on this show.


I didn't get the age thing to be honest. From what I can tell there were several other 8 year olds. Jimmy was not the only 8 year old there. It was a little heart-breaking to see how homesick he was, and how much everyone else wanted him to stay.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I went back and watched the rest this morning. If they keep the survivor style tasks to a minimum I'll keep watching.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

marksman said:


> Funny you said that...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never saw that but it seems appropriate. It was nice to see her act like a kid as soon as she talked to her mom thought that was sweet.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

marksman said:


> I didn't get the age thing to be honest. From what I can tell there were several other 8 year olds. Jimmy was not the only 8 year old there. It was a little heart-breaking to see how homesick he was, and how much everyone else wanted him to stay.


Jimmy was the youngest. He was 8 1/2. I guess if there were other 8 yr olds, they were closer to 9.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

I thought it was funny to hear one of the two kids tell Jimmy "Don't go home. Just look at what you are doing, you get to hunt Jack rabbits with a 10 year old!

I have to wonder just how scripted this show is. I am sure the production staff heavily "suggests" things the kids need to be doing to keep organized


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## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

Oh my, this was a train wreck. I made it up until the point that they finally got the pasta "cooked". I can't believe people actually like it! 

I predict it won't be around for long.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

I decided to watch the full show, but I had real trouble making through the boring first half. The second half was better, but the Stone Phillips wannabe host kept making me feel silly for watching. I thought it was entertaining, but no SP for me. I might watch another episode or two later in the season if it makes it that far.


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## jtonra (Oct 19, 2001)

Maui said:


> I was actually very surprised that the young leaders got past Sophia's criticism at the town meeting and still awarded her the star.


I have to believe that the council made their decision prior to the meeting and told the producers. How else could they have known to have a camera crew at her house for the phone call? I suppose they could have predicted it or maybe placed a few crews at the homes of the likely winners but that seems less likely to me.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

jtonra said:


> I have to believe that the council made their decision prior to the meeting and told the producers. How else could they have known to have a camera crew at her house for the phone call?


I always wondered if these calls are Real or Recreated.

When the host said you can call your parents right now (to the girl that won the $20K) I really expected him to add, "With this new Nokia All in one Cell phone"


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

jtonra said:


> I have to believe that the council made their decision prior to the meeting and told the producers. How else could they have known to have a camera crew at her house for the phone call? I suppose they could have predicted it or maybe placed a few crews at the homes of the likely winners but that seems less likely to me.


Well, I suspect that it wasn't immediate. She leaves the meeting, after that point they could have waited 2-3 hours or more, then when they had a camera crew at her mom's house, they could have gone back and done the call. Happens all the time in "reality" shows.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Haha Kid Nation won the time slot for the 18-49 demo and the 2-11 demo. LOL.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

omnibus said:


> Sophia's joy at winning the star and being able to call her mother came right through the TV screen.


And couldn't you hear the panic in her mother's voice right at the very first of the call? Poor lady...first thing she was thinking is "what's wrong!!"

I was glad that Sophia was able to give her such good news. 

I liked the show! Will definately keep watching.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Philly Bill said:


> I didn't bother. Now you guys are making me wish I'd TiVoed it.


Same here. I was absolutely sure it would be utter crap. I guess I'll keep my eyes on these threads...


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> I liked it, but I think the age gap needs to be fixed. I felt so sorry for Jimmy and I'm glad he went home. He was REALLY too young to be there. I mean, 8-15 is a BIG gab...of course the 15 year olds are going to try to trample the 8 year olds. It should've been more like 10 to 13. 13 and up are teenagers, not "kids" so I really wasn't expecting to see 14 and 15 year olds on this show.


I agree that the 14 and 15-year olds seem very out of place compared to the 10-11 year olds. It's a very big gap in maturity and physical development.

14 year-old Sophia is so mature that she seems more like the "mom." I was very happy that the council voted to give her the gold star even after she criticized them for failing to get the cooks to wash the dishes. That showed maturity all around.

She obviously wants to take charge of the younger kids and I think she finds it frustrating that the younger council members are in charge when she knows she'd keep things under better control.

The biggest problem with having teenagers is the physical difference between those two teenage boys (bullies) and the younger kids. Those two teenage boys (Greg and Blaine?) were total jerks and I was ready to turn the show off when I saw Greg push poor little Mike (which I assume is the "assault" mentioned above). Greg had to have gotten a warning about that, because I can't imagine they would tolerate him doing that again. What a tool.

Otoh, I thought Mike handled himself well, even though he was upset and struggling not to cry in front of that bully. I was impressed that he went up to Greg later to make sure things were "cool" between them.

Overall, I don't know if I will keep a SP. I watched it out of curiosity, but I found many scenes upsetting to watch -- when Mike got pushed around by someone much older, when Taylor and Jimmy had their crying jags and wanted to go home, etc.

I don't know how their parents can stand to watch those scenes of them crying and looking so miserable. If that were my kid, I would have wanted to take them home immediately.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

To be fair, having worked at sleepaway summer camps, those homesick crying jags are common even at a "real" camp, complete with counselors and much more comforts of home. Our experience was that homesickness tends to run about a 1 1/2 week curve - rising and falling for the first week and a half (for those that it hits) and then mellowing or going away completely by the second weekend. I wouldn't be too worried about homesickness issues until they're solidly into week 3. Any kid still struggling with homesickness at that point probably just needs to go home.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I have known kids like Sophia. Usuallly they were the oldest of a bunch of siblings and because of the failures of their own parents had to be the "mother" in the family. 

I was surprized they did not know how to cook. My mother started teaching us fairly early and by the time she had to go back to work when we were 11 and 13 we could have dinner ready for her when she got home. (I never really learned how to cook but my sister did.)


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

sieglinde said:


> I was surprized they did not know how to cook. My mother started teaching us fairly early and by the time she had to go back to work when we were 11 and 13 we could have dinner ready for her when she got home. (I never really learned how to cook but my sister did.)


What? Of course they knew how to cook. "We put too much pasta in." Grabs pot and dumps it in the street. LOL


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

sieglinde said:


> I was surprized they did not know how to cook. My mother started teaching us fairly early and by the time she had to go back to work when we were 11 and 13 we could have dinner ready for her when she got home. (I never really learned how to cook but my sister did.)


Especially mac and cheese. What kind of eight year old doesn't know how to make mac and cheese?!?!?! Boil water, add noodles, wait for noodles to be soggy, drain, add cheese. And for those that know a little more, they add milk and butter as well.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> What? Of course they knew how to cook. "We put too much pasta in." Grabs pot and dumps it in the street. LOL


That was too funny too because that whole pot was like solid pasta.


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## anom (Apr 18, 2005)

The only possible appeal this show could have had would have been if the kids were truly left to create their own society (it would have been appallingly unethical, but interesting). As it was, they had adults pick their leaders, tell them what their jobs would be, and create these inane, gimmicky challenges for prizes. Just like every other reality show in the world.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

unicorngoddess said:


> Especially mac and cheese. What kind of eight year old doesn't know how to make mac and cheese?!?!?! Boil water, add noodles, wait for noodles to be soggy, drain, add cheese. And for those that know a little more, they add milk and butter as well.


Umm.. things have changed.

Get bowl
put easy mac in bowl
add 1/3 cup water
microwave on high 2 minutes
stir

That's how kids today cook.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Anyone else wonder about that TV. What would they have been allowed to watch?

Would it even work?

I was cracking up with the choice. I could just see the kids forsaking the toilets for a tv.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

marksman said:


> Anyone else wonder about that TV. What would they have been allowed to watch?
> 
> Would it even work?
> 
> I was cracking up with the choice. I could just see the kids forsaking the toilets for a tv.


My hubby said if they got the tv the twist would be that they'd have to build a power plant to be able to watch it


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

marksman said:


> Anyone else wonder about that TV. What would they have been allowed to watch?
> 
> Would it even work?
> 
> I was cracking up with the choice. I could just see the kids forsaking the toilets for a tv.


"What if there's like a tornado. Then we will now if its coming!"


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

After watching it, how is this a child labor law issue. This looks like a Summer Camp. The week long camps I went to you had to help out in the kitchen, clean the bathroom and cabins. They do have adult supervision, maybe not consolers, they are not just let loose. 

But as soon as Piggy gets killed I will agree it's a bad show.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

USAFSSO said:


> But as soon as Piggy gets killed I will agree it's a bad show.


Why? Great way to learn where meat comes from, the high school I went to, to this day, runs a class through Ag science where they butcher, prep and cut meat for sale.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

I said Piggy not a pig. I'm not the first to make the connection.

Now if you got the connection, what kinda nightmare school did you go to?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Langree said:


> Why?


Zoom?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

macquariumguy said:


> Zoom?


pretty much, I gets it now.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

USAFSSO said:


> After watching it, how is this a child labor law issue. This looks like a Summer Camp. The week long camps I went to you had to help out in the kitchen, clean the bathroom and cabins. They do have adult supervision, maybe not consolers, they are not just let loose.
> 
> But as soon as Piggy gets killed I will agree it's a bad show.


It's a child labor issue because there is a list of specific jobs that are classified as hazardous occupations and from which children under the age of 16 are explicitly prohibited. An example of one such job is baking (I've successfully prosecuted a pizza place for allowing a 15-year-old employee who was primarily a waitress to operate the pizza ovens on occasion). Dragging those wagons down the road likely also falls under a hazardous occupation order. Federal law also sets a maximum number of hours per day that can be worked by children under the age of 16. I strongly suspect that the number of hours these children were performing tasks for the benefit of the show exceed those maximum hours.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

AJRitz said:


> Federal law also sets a maximum number of hours per day that can be worked by children under the age of 16. I strongly suspect that the number of hours these children were performing tasks for the benefit of the show exceed those maximum hours.


According to several interviews with the KN kids, they generally worked about 14 hours a day, cooking the food, cleaning the dishes, hauling water, etc. I've seen several quotes of "it was the hardest I ever worked, ever," but also "it was a lot of fun and I learned a lot."

Of course, CBS has only allowed interviews with certain parents and children. The parents who have complained have not been allowed to talk to any media, and the contract requires that all interviews go through CBS. They are required to keep quiet for a period of three years after the show ends, under threat of a $5 million penalty. That's the part that bothers me most about this whole thing: if they are so sure that they are doing nothing wrong, why are they putting a muzzle on every kid and every parent for three years?

People are comparing this to summer camp, but summer camps are tightly regulated and also have to follow state and federal laws. The producers of KN didn't even allow the NM state inspectors on the "closed set" to see if they met the standards required under NM law for children's group homes. I don't think group homes are permitted to force the children to make all their own meals and haul water for several hours a day in order to be allowed to eat and drink.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

The contract and non-disclosure agreement is probably the same as Survivor, TAR, and every other reality show.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> People are comparing this to summer camp, but summer camps are tightly regulated and also have to follow state and federal laws. The producers of KN didn't even allow the NM state inspectors on the "closed set" to see if they met the standards required under NM law for children's group homes. I don't think group homes are permitted to force the children to make all their own meals and haul water for several hours a day in order to be allowed to eat and drink.


I stand corrected, I have not heard the long hours of work. And with all this news and the media (and posts), CBS still has the application for KN2 on its web site.


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## speaker city (Sep 28, 2005)

I guess we're not seeing enough behind-the-scenes stuff this early on to get a good grasp of how the whole child labor thing works out. I don't have kids so I'm in no position to comment on what today's modern child is capable of. My concern is raised after years of working construction and as a longshoreman. Safety and proper restroom facilities are serious business in any work environment. 

The other thing I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around is the prize-money. If 10-year-old Billy wins the $20,000 star for busting his butt cooking and cleaning, who pays taxes? His parents? I know there are laws in place concerning child actors, but earning money through manual labor isn't the same as reading lines on a set. The concept of a kid's building a society is cool. But when prize money gets involved, it gets dicey. 

I guess the only reason I'm bothered is because CBS Corporation is profiting off the hard work and emotional distress of these kids. Parents don't always make the right choices, that's why we have laws. I worked on an Extreme Makeover House last year (the one where the cop got shot in LA). I worked 16 hours straight through the night. It was physically hard and emotionally draining. Very similar to what the Kid Nation boys and girls went through. Disney made money off my hard work. But I'm 24. I know the score. I know who's pimpin who. 

Than again, I'm probably making too much about this and need to just enjoy the show. 
/end rant 

Go yellow district!


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

Magnolia88 said:


> They are required to keep quiet for a period of three years after the show ends, under threat of a $5 million penalty. That's the part that bothers me most about this whole thing: if they are so sure that they are doing nothing wrong, why are they putting a muzzle on every kid and every parent for three years?


Were does it say that??


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Enrique said:


> Were does it say that??


In the standard release and non-disclosure agreement all the parents had to sign.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

Neenahboy said:


> In the standard release and non-disclosure agreement all the parents had to sign.


And do you have a copy of this or a link?


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0823071kidnation1.html


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

For a while there, I thought the name of the town was going to be "Camp Greenlake."


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I enjoyed this show a lot. What a great bunch of kids. And the show is designed to make them feel good about themselves, and inspire the audience. I'll keep watching.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Heavy penalities for violating non-disclosure agreements and other elements of their contracts are standard for reality show participants. There's nothing unusual or suspicious there.

My opinion: these kids are volunteers, doing this work for fun. Equating what they are doing to some kind of child sweat shop is ridiculous. They aren't working in some pizza parlor cooking food for customers. They're cooking food and doing chores for themselves and their fellow cast members, akin to what Boy and Girl Scouts do on campouts. 

Sure they get paid something, but it's a token amount and in no way compares to an actual employer/employee situation. And a little hard work is probably a good thing for some of the Nintendo-obsessed Spongebob-addled kids we've got these days. And hey, if you didn't notice, these kids are not slaves. They can leave at any time with little pressure to stay. 

Get real people, reality kiddie labor shows are not going to start springing up all over the country to make money off the backs of our kids. And all this hand-wringing is premature anyway, considering we've seen only ONE episode of the show!


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

It would be a shame if this show got killed by child labor nonsense. This Nerfing of America has got to have some limits.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

appleye1 said:


> Heavy penalities for violating non-disclosure agreements and other elements of their contracts are standard for reality show participants. There's nothing unusual or suspicious there.
> 
> My opinion: these kids are volunteers, doing this work for fun. Equating what they are doing to some kind of child sweat shop is ridiculous. They aren't working in some pizza parlor cooking food for customers. They're cooking food and doing chores for themselves and their fellow cast members, akin to what Boy and Girl Scouts do on campouts.
> 
> ...


Whether they are getting paid or "volunteering" is irrelevant to the child labor considerations. The legal term of art is that one cannot "suffer or permit" work to be done that is in violation of the statute. Paid or unpaid, the work performed by the children accrues to the benefit of the producers of the show, and they are obligated to comply with federal labor law.


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## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

Is this show canceled yet?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I guess I don't understand the whole child labor thing. Is it illegal for a kid who lives on a farm to go out and milk cows, haul some hay and gather some chicken eggs? I don't think so. From what I can tell, CBS has not hired these kids to do a job. These kids signed up to be on a gameshow. Furthermore, none of the kids are forced to stay. Any one of them can elect to go home any time they want.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> I guess I don't understand the whole child labor thing. Is it illegal for a kid who lives on a farm to go out and milk cows, haul some hay and gather some chicken eggs? I don't think so. From what I can tell, CBS has not hired these kids to do a job. These kids signed up to be on a gameshow. Furthermore, none of the kids are forced to stay. Any one of them can elect to go home any time they want.


I've explained this quite explicitly at least twice here in this thread already.
1. The kid working on the family farm is covered by a very specific and very narrow exception that covers agricultural work on a family farm.
2. The definitions of "work", "employer", and "employee" under the Fair Labor Standards Act are VERY broad, especially with regard to the Child Labor provisions of the Act. The key issue here is that the producers of the show are deriving economic benefit from the work being performed by the children. The particular work being done, in many cases, is work that is explicitly prohibited for children under the age of 16.
3. Whether or not the children were "forced" to work or "forced" to stay is utterly irrelevant. As I've said, the legal term of art is "suffer or permit". An employer may not "suffer or permit" work to be done that is in violation of the Act. The employer must actively PREVENT violations of the Act.

As I also said before, I do this for a living. I prosecute violations of Federal child labor laws. I gave a specific example relevant to the first episode of the show. I have successfully prosecuted a pizza place for not preventing a 15-year-old waitress/hostess from going back into the kitchen and taking pizzas out of the oven when the store was busier than expected. It doesn't matter that she wasn't directed to operate the pizza oven. It doesn't matter that her primary job had nothing to do with the pizza oven. It doesn't matter that she could have walked out the door and left instead of getting the pizzas out of the oven. Operating a baking oven is an explicitly prohibited task. As such, the minute those 10-year-olds started putting biscuits in the oven for the purpose of a television broadcast, there were multiple violations of the child labor provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> I guess I don't understand the whole child labor thing.


The problem is we're talking about the law, not common sense. The law won't be done until every hard corner of the USA has a soft rubber bumper put over it.

Not offense intended to you Aaron, I know you just do your job, but parents *should* be allowed to let their children do stuff like this.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> The problem is we're talking about the law, not common sense. The law won't be done until every hard corner of the USA has a soft rubber bumper put over it.
> 
> Not offense intended to you Aaron, I know you just do your job, but parents *should* be allowed to let their children do stuff like this.


To be clear, it's not a problem for parents to send kids to camp to learn to do such things. The problem comes in when a third-party profiteers on the experience. It's the show's producers that really make this a problem, not the experience itself.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

appleye1 said:


> Sure they get paid something, but it's a token amount and in no way compares to an actual employer/employee situation.


They are each getting paid $5000 for 40 days of manual labor. If they are judged "the hardest worker" by the foremen (er, "council members"), they are entitled to a bonus of $20,000. (And possibly may even be entitled to earn that bonus more than once, although it's not clear.) I don't call that a "token amount" by any stretch.

In addition, CBS is earning a ton of money off of their hard work. Not just their manual labor, but their "performance" as tv performers. CBS has taken great pains to say they aren't "actors" to try to get around the labor laws, but they are definitely performing for the benefit of the CBS viewing audience, in addition to the manual labor they are required to perform so that they can eat and drink, and possibly earn a bonus of $20,000.

It's also very suspicious that they moved production out of CA to NM because the CBS lawyers determined that the show didn't comply with CA laws protecting child actors or "performers." From what I understand, NM is still investigating the matter, but CBS isn't being very cooperative if it barred the inspector from visiting the set.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

So then what's the rule for kids on gameshows? Or what about those supernanny shows and such? They have this Trading Spaces show with kids on it doing some hard labor. Does that break labor laws too? Because I'm pretty sure the networks profit from all that.

I just don't see CBS making a profit directly from the kids' labor. CBS makes their profit off the advertisers.

The way you make it sound is that they are profiting directly from the labor. So if a network decided to do a reality show of family life on a farm and they showed kids doing hard labor and if the network profits from showing this show, they would be breaking child labor laws.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

The issue isn't "hard" work. The issue is specific tasks that are explicitly prohibited.
CBS (actually, the show's producers) make money directly from the kids' labor in the same way that the owner of the pizza place makes money from his employee's labor. Money doesn't magically appear in his hand when the employees make the pizzas. Rather, he sells the pizzas that they've made. In this case, the producer sells the images of the work that the kids are doing. If the kids weren't doing the work, there would be no images to sell.

Family life on the farm is a bit trickier of a situation, because of the specific exemption in the the law for agricultural work. It's far to complex a situation for me to be willing to analyze it off the cuff here.

As for Trading Spaces for Kids, I've only watched it once or twice. But by my recollection, there are some pretty specific limits on what they actually allow the kids to do. Particularly with regard to the power tools. There's a reason for that (besides liability). Letting kids operate a table saw would probably be a violation of a hazardous occupations order.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Regardless, it seems like a well done show... with a positive, educational and uplifting message for kids (and their families.) Granted, I've only seen the first episode but it it got yanked over some legal mumbo jumbo, I'd be disappointed.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> The way you make it sound is that they are profiting directly from the labor. So if a network decided to do a reality show of family life on a farm and they showed kids doing hard labor and if the network profits from showing this show, they would be breaking child labor laws.


I'm not saying they are breaking child labor laws. I'm just following the ongoing articles in the NY Times and LA Times that have been investigating all the ways in which CBS may have violated child labor laws, among other laws.

I don't think the farm analogy works, because in that case, the network is not controlling or dictating the work done by the children, the parents are. (And I have no idea what the laws are wrt to farm labor by children.) In the case of _Kid Nation_, CBS and/or the production company (the employer who is paying the children) says to the kids, "your job is to haul water and your job is to clean the outhouse, etc."

After seeing the first episode, it became even more apparent how much the producers were controlling their working conditions. The kids didn't even get to volunteer for certain jobs, they were _assigned_ to their jobs based on the color of their bandana and their team's ability to fill bottles, etc. The entire environment is much more controlled by the adult producers than the promos led viewers to believe: "kids will set up their own society!" blahblah. The kids haven't decided anything on their own -- who does what job, how much they get paid for their jobs -- it's all been decided for them.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

I found the show really interesting. (Aside from the fact that practically the whole time I was thinking, what the he!! kind of a parent would agree to let their kid do this?!) 

AJ, I can see how this must be incredibly frustrating for you to watch. I am wondering what the range of possible penalties would be for the violations you have described, if someone were sucessfully prosecuted. Are they simply finanical, such that CBS could have made a rational business decision to take the risk b/c the fines would be offset by the show's profits?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I don't see anything wrong with this, and the only thing that makes it "labor" is that there are cameras running.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

You know what's going to wind up killing this for me more than the show itself?

If every thread about this program from here on out becomes a debate thread over whether child labor laws are being broken or not.

Let's have a good discussion about it here, but do you think in future weeks we can actually use the show's discussion thread to discuss the show? I'm not holding out any hope, but it sure would be nice.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JLucPicard said:


> Let's have a good discussion about it here, but do you think in future weeks we can actually use the show's discussion thread to discuss the show? I'm not holding out any hope, but it sure would be nice.


That'd be welcome by me as well.

The Sophia girl impressed me... very mature and responsible for her age. I was happy she won the $20k gold star, even after her "critique" of the town leaders.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I find the idea of watching the show to see what might and might not be illegal a lot more compelling than watching it just to watch it. Same for discussions. How much conversation can we have about weird attire and strange accents really?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I find the idea of watching the show to see what might and might not be illegal a lot more compelling than watching it just to watch it. Same for discussions. How much conversation can we have about weird attire and strange accents really?


As the show progresses? About as much as we have for Survivor, TAR, BB, AI.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

I suspect I'll talk less about the Child Labor issues as the show progresses. Given the controversy surrounding these issues, however, they seem to be an appropriate point of discussion for the premiere. As to Ruth's question about penalties, here's a summary from the Department of Labor's web page:

Penalties/Sanctions

Employers are subject to a civil money penalty of up to $11,000 per worker for each violation of the child labor provisions. 

The Act also provides for a criminal fine of up to $10,000 upon conviction for a willful violation. For a second conviction for a willful violation, the Act provides for a fine of not more than $10,000 and imprisonment for up to six months, or both. The Secretary may also bring suit to obtain injunctions to restrain persons from violating the Act.

I could see a certain amount of penalty being treated as a "cost of doing business", but I'd think that the injunctive relief might be of greater concern.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

AJRitz said:


> I suspect I'll talk less about the Child Labor issues as the show progresses. Given the controversy surrounding these issues, however, they seem to be an appropriate point of discussion for the premiere. As to Ruth's question about penalties, here's a summary from the Department of Labor's web page:
> 
> Penalties/Sanctions
> 
> ...


Injunctive relief could prevent a second season, maybe, but the first one is over already, right? I think they'd probably just eat the $440,000 (40 kids at $11,000 each) as a business risk, but that assumes just one violation per kid. How strictly does the law penalize continuing violations? If one of those kids uses the oven 3x/day for 40 days, how many violations is that?

Also, if the violation hinges on gaining commercial advantage -- are the advertisers potentially in violation too?

I know everyone isn't interested in the legal issues -- but it's pretty clearly fair game for discussion of the show. I think AJ is right and it'll die down as the show moves forward, since the child labor issues are going to be constant over the course of the show. In the meatime, I personally think it's interesting and it's nice that we're lucky enough to have a real expert to answer our questions about it. Sorry to those who are bored.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

It's a shame CBS doesn't have a lawyer or two on their side to have considered this.


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## ducker (Feb 21, 2006)

I was thinking that this was going to be a train wreck of a show, and the first half really appeared to be as such... But as the show continued it pulled together quite nicely. I'm very interested in seeing how this develops.

I'm sure that eventually the council members will be swapped voted/out.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

macquariumguy said:


> It's a shame CBS doesn't have a lawyer or two on their side to have considered this.


Of course they do and I'm sure they did. Just like they have professional show developers, artistic consultants, casting people, editors, and directors. That doesn't stop us from discussing the artistic merits, concepts, casting, editing, and direction of TV shows in these threads. This isn't any different.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> It's a shame CBS doesn't have a lawyer or two on their side to have considered this.


Just like the lawyers for Extreme Home Makeover - who manage to leave the folks whose homes they make over with huge tax bills that many of them can't afford to pay.


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

Ruth said:


> I found the show really interesting. (Aside from the fact that practically the whole time I was thinking, what the he!! kind of a parent would agree to let their kid do this?!) .......


the kind that want to dump their kid for 40 days and make $5000+. and hope too pimp them out for more future "acting" gigs.


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

so what about the "beauty pageant queen" leader? didn't she spout out she was a beauty queen and didn't do dishes?

if the yellow worker district didn't do the dishes they should have docked their 10 cent pay.

so who is gonna be the preacher, the banker? and they need a sherriff to put the big bully graffitti kids in jail . and no miss kittie to run the saloon??


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

JLucPicard said:


> You know what's going to wind up killing this for me more than the show itself?
> 
> If every thread about this program from here on out becomes a debate thread over whether child labor laws are being broken or not.


The child labor thing is outside the context of the show. This is a reality show, we are following it for the drama. We have already had several pages of talk, most of which included the child labor issue. What more can be said about it?


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

scottykempf said:


> The child labor thing is outside the context of the show. This is a reality show, we are following it for the drama. We have already had several pages of talk, most of which included the child labor issue. What more can be said about it?


I agree. I have no problem with the discussion going on in this thread as I believe it merits discussion and this is not necessarily the WRONG place for it.

What more can be said about it? I have a feeling that those with an eye for spotting this type of thing could cite incidents in each episode, which would lead to more discussion about it in each weekly thread. I would prefer to come into these threads and see/participate in discussion about the personalities and happenings in the show. I hope that's how future weeks will be - or at least the majority of the discussion is about the personalities and happenings on the show.

That being said, people are free to come in and discuss whatever interest them. I'll need to make a personal choice whether I want to partake.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> It's a shame CBS doesn't have a lawyer or two on their side to have considered this.


Yup we should start up a fund to help them up.. because to be honest the whole thing is silly. It is an attention grab by a few labor unions and the AG in New Mexico.

Those poor kids.

Of course some of them did drink bleach because they thought it was mountain dew, and that is a little funny. (since nobody got hurt.)

I agree with the sentiment of focusing on the show itself. I think it is a compelling backdrop for a reality show and for watching this kids deal with this situation. Kids are often many fold more honest and forth right than adults so you are much more likely to get MORE Reality on reality show like this. That is why I am interested and want to continue watching it.

I also do not want to carry on a 13 week debate on whether or not kids were exploited. I lack a substantial amount of information to make a determination either way... so I am not the least bit qualified to make that determination as I have not seen anywhere close to enough information for someone to make that kind of deterimation based on a few news articles. Ultimately it should have been the individual parents who made sure the situation and circumstances were right for their children to participate. They are the ones who should be looking out for their own children's interests above all else. I know this does not always happen, but it certainly should be the first metric looked at...

As for the Gold Star... I think it was a good mechanism to introduce into this world as it will instill some order and accountability. It will keep the bigger kids from running over everyone, at least until such time they believe they have no chance of actually winning one.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

JLucPicard said:


> I agree. I have no problem with the discussion going on in this thread as I believe it merits discussion and this is not necessarily the WRONG place for it.


Maybe we could have one thread for discussion of the legal issues and ramifications surrounding the show, and another (or one per each episode) to chat about the "storyline" and kid contestants?

I dunno, just throwing out the idea.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Fofer said:


> Maybe we could have one thread for discussion of the legal issues and ramifications surrounding the show, and another (or one per each episode) to chat about the "storyline" and kid contestants?
> 
> I dunno, just throwing out the idea.


I thought about that too but it brings up spoiler issues if we have one separate thread, b/c every week people may want to post things about the newest episode and it would be a real PITA to have to spoiler-tag all substantive references to the show.

And I really don't think a thread each week is going to be needed for this -- I do think it'll die down. At least the technical legal child labor laws part. The broader implications of the show may continue to provoke discussion, but that's appropriate, isn't it?


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yeah, sounds fine to me. Truth be told, I don't care too strongly either way, I can always just scroll by posts that don't interest me. 

I'm just trying to suggest a compromise to would keep everyone happy. Otherwise we might have the legal posts, then the posts complaining about the legal posts, then the posts complaining about the complaining...


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

I haven't read this thread yet, but a friend of mine's kid is on the show. 

She hasn't been allowed to say anything about his experience so far, but now that the show is airing, she can give a tidbit or two. Oddly enough, they are not TV watchers, so this might be a shock for them.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

OK lets move this back to the show.

I don't remember talking as adult as some of these 14-15 year olds. Seeing Michale rally the group back was great. And Sophia saying that she is a 30 year old in a 14 year old body is true. I had no problem with her saying the kitchen crew needed to clean the dishes.

I would like to see the teens pick it up and become more of the Camp Counselors. The young girl who walked up to Jimmy when he wandered off crying, she talked to him and almost talked him into staying.

I think this show ultimately shows kids can do more than what most adults want them to do. Looks like this kind of thing can only help and make these kids better people. 


Some of these teenage boys need an adjustment though....


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

justapixel said:


> I haven't read this thread yet, but a friend of mine's kid is on the show.
> 
> She hasn't been allowed to say anything about his experience so far, but now that the show is airing, she can give a tidbit or two. Oddly enough, they are not TV watchers, so this might be a shock for them.


Oooh, inside information! Do you have any tidbits you can share with us?


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

Ruth said:


> Oooh, inside information! Do you have any tidbits you can share with us?


I sent her an email asking if I could share stuff here. She hasn't responded yet.

Since I removed the kid's name, I will share until she tells me not to. I will remove my posts if she requests I not say anything, just so you know in advance. I don't know what she is allowed to share and what she isn't, and if she has been telling us stuff in confidence or if she is only sharing with us what she is allowed to share. If she says it's okay, I'll tell you which child it is.

Here is what she said about the bleach incident:

"Child didn't observe the bleach drinking but all this kids heard about and this is what s/he told me. They had no hot water for washing dishes so for sanitizing the dishes and cooking stuff they used bleach. The bleach was dispensed out in limited quantities by an adult.

They also used bleach to keep the soda making stuff clean in the saloon. They had to make their rootbeer using a clear liquid and other stuff. A child (actually one of the older teenagers) had left a small unmarked container of bleach out in the saloon which had been obtained 3 days earlier from the adult in the kitchen. The child making the rootbeer picked it up thinking it was the clear stuff that goes into the pop, mixed it with the brown stuff and drank some. He immediately thought it tasted funny and asked 3 other kids if they thought it tasted right. They all tasted it, thought it bad, and immediately spit it out. So only the first kid swallowed a little but it was diluted by the the rootbeer stuff and he was fine.

Only the one parent has complained publicly. All the other parents are supportive that the show was overall a good experience for the kids and we want to see it do well."

She also said that most of the kids were culled from gifted groups, and most of them were trying to break into the acting business. Her child is one of the few who had no interest in making a career out of show business.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

Where's the bleach drinking coming from? Was it in the first episode? Did I miss it?


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

mtnagel said:


> Where's the bleach drinking coming from? Was it in the first episode? Did I miss it?


No, I hadn't heard about it until my friend mentioned it. I guess a parent complained and it got in the papers - whether it is aired eventually or not, I don't know.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

FYI for those who missed the first episode CBS is re-running the first episode tonight 9/22/07 at 8pm/7pm CT.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

justapixel said:


> She also said that most of the kids were culled from gifted groups


That was obvious from the start. Most of these kids didn't seem like your run of the mill 8-15 year olds.

And I always assume anyone on any reality show is an aspiring actor. 

I watched it last night and thought it was really good and interesting. My 3-year old lost interest quickly.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I watched it last night and thought it was really good and interesting. My 3-year old lost interest quickly.


Clearly not a core member of the 2-11 demographic!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm really surprised by all the comments early in the thread saying that the show became uninteresting as soon as there was a "Survivor"-style challenge. To me, that was the most interesting part of the show, because it got them to rally together as teams, gave them something to work toward, and set up the heirarchy for the work that needed to be done.

Honestly, I don't know how you'd structure a show like this without challenges of that sort. It's exactly what I was expecting and I was glad to see it.

I'm curious what happens to the money that gets spent in the stores. Do the Merchants get to keep it, or does it just go back to the producers?

Was anyone else shocked when Sophia begged enough money to buy the bike? I was glad when she saw it and said she really wanted it. I thought they were going to show her saving her money over the course of the season while the rest of the kids blew their cash on candy, and use her as an example of frugality. However, the kids were too stupid with their money and she was able to get $3.00 in the first episode. Opportunity wasted.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm curious what happens to the money that gets spent in the stores. Do the Merchants get to keep it, or does it just go back to the producers?


I'm hoping that part of it goes back to the Merchant group, since that would create the more interesting dynamic. Since they didn't say anything about it though, my guess is that it isn't used for anything.



DevdogAZ said:


> Was anyone else shocked when Sophia begged enough money to buy the bike? I was glad when she saw it and said she really wanted it. I thought they were going to show her saving her money over the course of the season while the rest of the kids blew their cash on candy, and use her as an example of frugality. However, the kids were too stupid with their money and she was able to get $3.00 in the first episode. Opportunity wasted.


I was thinking the same as you. I don't know why the kids paid her for that, but I'm guessing maybe it was just because they could.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

MickeS said:


> And I always assume anyone on any reality show is an aspiring actor.


I'm sure there is truth to that. OTOH, I want to be on TAR, and I'd kill myself before I'd become an actor.  I think it'd be an amazing experience to go around the world like that, and do the challenges.

I used to want to go on Survivor too, because I thought it'd be an interesting psychological experiement - -but the casting has changed from early days and I don't think they'd put me on.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

Just heard from my friend. I can tell you inside stuff, as long as I don't tell you which child is hers.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I liked the show a lot!! I just now got around to watching it!! The kids are amazing actually and I'm impressed!

I also had to go looking for info on this city! Well, the city did once exist. But, doesn't any more and this Bonanza city isn't the original. It's a movie set. Same set that was used in filming Lonesome Dove. Every building has power.

http://gosw.about.com/od/newmexicotravelguide/a/bonanzacity.htm

Even knowing this, I'm still enjoying the show!!


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I watched it live tonight and I don't recall a single commercial break.

Good show - I added a season pass.


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## headroll (Jan 20, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I'm hoping that part of it goes back to the Merchant group, since that would create the more interesting dynamic. Since they didn't say anything about it though, my guess is that it isn't used for anything.


The Merchants aren't buying the items themselves to sell, they are just employees of the store and therefore only receive a salary.

I suppose they can try to arbitrarily raise prices and pocket the profit?

-Roll


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

You guys talked me into it. I was so sure this was going to be a big bag of suck that I never even setup a season pass for it. My wife and I caught the Saturday night re-air and I have to say we liked it. That little kid broke my heart and made us both shed a small tear. Especially when he said "and my Dad!". So I'm in. My wife and I will enjoy watching this together. :up:


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Kable, it wasn't for 38 mins till a commercial, makes you think no one wants to sponsor this, huh?

What is the deal with the NO ADULTS in the opening credits it says, then here is an adult leading all the challenges? Above we read an adult dispenses bleach, etc. They could have at least had a teen for that and not a forty-something, couldn't they?

We saw they had only an outhouse, and washing dishes was discussed BUT, how then are they taking baths and washing clothes? Now here is a real big one, brushing your teeth? Kids hate that, there would not only have to be some secret bathroom for all that, but also adults to make the kids do stuff like teeth, wouldn't there? 

They looked awful neat/clean after 5 days at the first meeting! Makes me think it is all a scam, living on their own that is, and THAT is the "secret" they don't want discussed???


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

I liked it when one kid said about getting the extra outhouses, "don't want my colon to bust" (paraphrased).


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

That one kid reminds me of a young Howard Stern.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

justapixel said:


> Just heard from my friend. I can tell you inside stuff, as long as I don't tell you which child is hers.


/tries to forget the name he saw before justapixel edited her post

Nope, sorry.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

visionary said:


> What is the deal with the NO ADULTS in the opening credits it says, then here is an adult leading all the challenges? Above we read an adult dispenses bleach, etc. They could have at least had a teen for that and not a forty-something, couldn't they?
> 
> We saw they had only an outhouse, and washing dishes was discussed BUT, how then are they taking baths and washing clothes? Now here is a real big one, brushing your teeth? Kids hate that, there would not only have to be some secret bathroom for all that, but also adults to make the kids do stuff like teeth, wouldn't there?
> 
> They looked awful neat/clean after 5 days at the first meeting! Makes me think it is all a scam, living on their own that is, and THAT is the "secret" they don't want discussed???


Holy cow! This is a reality TV show, not a children's prison or something. Nobody's about to drop 40 kids into the middle of a deserted town and leave them on their own. No way someone makes a "Survivor" clone for kids where they are completely and totally on their own for things.

Ya, they advertised "no adults", but that's where suspension of reality (literally) comes into play. I'm just enjoying it for what it is without getting all worked up and feeling deceived about it.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

Neenahboy said:


> /tries to forget the name he saw before justapixel edited her post
> 
> Nope, sorry.


Just don't post it, thanks.  I'll have to delete everything then! 

Here is more of what she said, as a bribe to keep my secret:



> My child did enjoy the filming which took place in April and May. They really were there (outside Santa Fe) 40 days with no contact with parents, except for the gold star winners who got a quick phone call home. (We didn't know about the gold star awards) It was hard for me not to know what was going on as we really had no idea. We (parents) did not see the set in advance nor know what they were eating or what the sleeping accommodations were or what they were doing all day long. We only knew that they were "building a town". We figured it would be a good learning experience with lots of opportunities to learn to work with others. A producer would call each parent every 3 days with only a quick "S/he is doing great"...or "S/he is working hard"....no details at all. I assumed they were literally building buildings out of materials but that was not the case as they were at a regular movie set.
> 
> There was one evening when I got a phone call saying that my child might win a phone call home as a reward the next evening, and that a film crew would come to my home, film me in my regular Sunday evening routine, and if the call came, would film me taking the call. They said they were sending several film crews out to quite a few homes that evening because they had no idea which kid would win the call. So I scrambled like mad to clean up our cluttered house, working all night. By the time the film crew got here I was exhausted. They filmed me making dinner, combing the cat, doing homework with my other child/ren. I can't tell you if we actually got the phone call or if it was all for nothing. They also filmed some things in my childs cluttered bedroom.
> 
> My impression of the show is that it is intended to be very 'feel good' and give a positive spin on what kids can accomplish. I don't think it's going to be very mean spirited and "Lord of the Fly-ish" Yes, some icky things happened and some kids did some mean things...but the worst that I've heard about all occured off camera. The kids were savvy...they knew when they were being filmed and when they weren't. So I don't believe much nasty stuff will be shown. I do believe that leaders emerged who will get most of the airtime. They tended to be the older kids. We were told to think of this as an adventure camp or summer camp and that's basically what it was to us. A cool once in the lifetime experience for him.


I edited the above only to disguise name/sex/age of child and a few details that could give away who the family might be.

It's kind of fun to know somebody involved in a TV show like this. I've always wondered what goes on behind the scenes in these types of shows, now I can find out. And, share with you. I'm glad she said I could. :up:


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I am getting a real thrill out of reading your "insider" posts!  Thank you so much for sharing!


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

visionary said:


> Kable, it wasn't for 38 mins till a commercial, makes you think no one wants to sponsor this, huh?


The episode recorded at 17 minutes in when I set up the season pass. I rewatched it and there were no commercials, at least from 17 minutes on.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Saturday's re-airing started late here because of a game or something...so it had to run all the way through with no commercials to get back on schedule.

IMO, when they say "no adults" I just took it to mean that the adults aren't helping them make any of the decisions or telling them what to do. All the decisions are made by the kids themselves.

And as for baths and brushing teeth...first of all, who says the kids have to do it. I could see my kid going the whole 40 days without brushing her teeth without me being there to tell her to do it every night. I'm sure they have a wash room where they can wash up though.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Kable, hey, that IS interesting! I looked at mine again, the commercials began at 38 just after they revealed the prize of more outhouses and before they revealed the TV, there were 4 commercials, a movie promo for Xmas santa movie (already!) icy hot, maybeliine cosmetics, etc, then it came back at 41 mins into. Now here is the kicker, the program was 1 hour and 7 mins long and was recorded correctly that way from the guide and I did not pad. This means the affiliate here SCHEDULED stopping the show and inserted commercials if all yours are an hour. 

They had no national ads at all? Wonder what the sponsors are afraid of? Here, at 48 into was another break, with "Seeker" movie ad, Vagisil ad, etc. No ads for local stores however, seems odd. Those 2 breaks did add up to 7 mins. I never knew network affiliates could delay a program to add in ads before. They then have to delay all the rest of that night's shows? Interesting...

edit: I am talking about the first premier, not sat re-run I never saw that. I think they also need to change NO ADULTS to NO PARENTS in the opening, adults do tell them what to do, all the challanges for instance, the town meetings, How to award the star and who will win what in the contests. 

Does anyone know what the kids motive was to go in to this? What were they told they would win or get, just the TV exposure, if so what was the motive to do well before the stars were revealed and not just want to look pretty and into a camera?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

visionary said:


> Kable, hey, that IS interesting! I looked at mine again, the commercials began at 38 just after they revealed the prize of more outhouses and before they revealed the TV, there were 4 commercials, a movie promo for Xmas santa movie (already!) icy hot, maybeliine cosmetics, etc, then it came back at 41 mins into. Now here is the kicker, the program was 1 hour and 7 mins long and was recorded correctly that way from the guide and I did not pad. This means the affiliate here SCHEDULED stopping the show and inserted commercials if all yours are an hour.
> 
> They had no national ads at all? Wonder what the sponsors are afraid of? Here, at 48 into was another break, with "Seeker" movie ad, Vagisil ad, etc. No ads for local stores however, seems odd. Those 2 breaks did add up to 7 mins. I never knew network affiliates could delay a program to add in ads before. They then have to delay all the rest of that night's shows? Interesting...
> 
> edit: I am talking about the first premier, not sat re-run I never saw that. I think they also need to change NO ADULTS to NO PARENTS in the opening, adults do tell them what to do, all the challanges for instance.


The version available on XBox live is 58 minutes with no commercials, so it looks like it was extended with fewer commercials is all, no grand conspiracy going on.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

But I have not seen a network taped show go over its hour to insert ads before, ever. It would have the effect of messing up rest of the night's lineup too.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I got a CBS Eye alert that night that Kid Nation was gonna run an extra 7 minutes. I'm not sure why though so I had time to pad. 

The CBS Eye alerts are pretty cool - you sign up on the CBS website and they will email you (or text message you) if anything has a change in schedule. It's especially nice on Sundays when football runs long.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Unicorn, you think if those kids came back full of teeth cavities and needing dental work or even losing teeth you would not hear about that by now, big time? I think the 3 year secret thing is just that they were not on their own as stated at all. 

I also see scriping in what they say, they talk like 50 year old women, that one accepting the award had what sounded like an Oscar acceptance speech. Kids giggle, talk nonsense and just try to get that many clean and neat together for the town meeting, on their own. They play no kids games either (hide/seek would be easy to do, hopscotch, rope jumping) never talk about kids stuff, no one ever mentions boy scouts or baseball or anything, it is just like they are reading scripts prepared by 50 year olds isn't it? There is the secret to be kept 3 years.... I bet.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

visionary said:


> Unicorn, you think if those kids came back full of teeth cavities and needing dental work or even losing teeth you would not hear about that by now, big time? I think the 3 year secret thing is just that they were not on their own as stated at all.
> 
> I also see scriping in what they say, they talk like 50 year old women, that one accepting the award had what sounded like an Oscar acceptance speech. Kids giggle, talk nonsense and just try to get that many clean and neat together for the town meeting, on their own. They play no kids games either (hide/seek would be easy to do, hopscotch, rope jumping) never talk about kids stuff, no one ever mentions boy scouts or baseball or anything, it is just like they are reading scripts prepared by 50 year olds isn't it? There is the secret to be kept 3 years.... I bet.


 

3 year NDA is standard for shows like this.

These kids were culled from gifted programs, so it fits that some may seem more adult.

Nothing says they didn't play hide and seek etc, this isn't big brother, we aren't seeing them 24/7.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

When I went to summer camp, we didn't talk about boy scouts, baseball or anything like it. We usually talked about life back home, each other and what we were going to do that day. We were also dressed and usually old enough to make sure we still looked decent.

Visionary, I'm thinking you don't have kids. Because kids can some the darnedest things. They can be pretty responsible, when given the opportunity or if it's asked of them.

I'm sure there are adults around, but I'm thinking some of this isn't so scripted. Some of these kids are very bright!


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

visionary said:


> Unicorn, you think if those kids came back full of teeth cavities and needing dental work or even losing teeth you would not hear about that by now, big time? I think the 3 year secret thing is just that they were not on their own as stated at all.


I don't think 40 days is going to be enough to make your teeth fall out. Let's at least try to be a little realistic. When kids are away from their parents, a lot of them are going to want to start doing the stuff their parents don't let them do...or not do the stuff their parents make them do.

But seriously think about this. We KNOW that there are adults there. At the very least, we know those cameras aren't operated by 8 year olds. So anyone that actually thought that this was zero-adult involvement obviously had the wrong expectation of the show.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Dancin, thanks, that means the network did the 7 min add, but now that makes a new dilema. Since many said they saw NO commercials, and it was still 67 min long then, what did they see I did not see while I saw the commercials? I looked again at my first one and it sure did not run while I was gone, it started right up where the TV was revealed. This is getting stranger and stranger...

I think if there is to be adults and even on screen, instead of appearing out of nowhere, have a "doctor" in the town, and he'd be a real doc/dentist and would lead the council and it would seem much more realistic, and if someone did scrape their knee or fall the others would take him to the doc, just as in the real old west for wound treating. He could also give washing/sanitation advice and so on.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

[preemptive thunder stealing] ...not to mention the administration of insulin... [/preemptive thunder stealing]


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

he's either ignoring my post or is lacking comprehension. You be the judge.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

It has been confirmed as a 58 min show in a 67 min time slot, and several say no commercials, so what filled all that time? For me, I know, but what for those who saw no commercials? 

Yes, the doc could deal with any issues and even walk down the street "Mary, are you brushing each day?" and stuff like that, tell the kids they are too dirty, etc. filling in the gaps in the story.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

visionary said:


> Yes, the doc could deal with any issues and even walk down the street "Mary, are you brushing each day?" and stuff like that, tell the kids they are too dirty, etc. filling in the gaps in the story.


I'm sure a Doc is there in case of injury, etc. But having someone remind them to brush their teeth or bathe is just silly.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Langree said:


> he's either ignoring my post or is lacking comprehension. You be the judge.


Both maybe!


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Yeah I think the point is that there isn't anyone there to tell the kids to do certain things. Will the kids decide it's important to bathe? Maybe one of them will tell the others that they stink after a few days and thus they will come up with their own rules about washing up......or maybe they just won't care. 

I think that's what's fascinating about the show. I don't really care that they are hiding the fact that there's adults there and the kids aren't REALLY creating a nation of their own. I'm glad that there are adults in case something happens. But they do have some control over their own rules and I like to see what they do.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

All I am saying is the adult influence could have been built in realisticly to the show with a doc character and since doc's are rich, he would have provided the star, he would promote exercises with challenges, and so on. Much better than a guy just walking on the set out of nowhere doing that. Did some network guy ever walk out on the Brady bunch kids and tell them what to do next, no, they had adults in the program as part of the plot to do it.

I think now they filmed this as a Survivor-like endurance show, since that is the way that is done there, then someone after changed the ads and promos to this kids alone city thing. Maybe that was the result of thinking about those labor laws talked about earlier, that this had to be like a camp and not like a contest, I have a hunch that is what really happened.

Since they needed only deserted land, they ought go to Mexico or somewhere and have done it, outside the labor law issues here. Since it was already taped, they changed the idea to what it is now, and that is why so many things don't fit well.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

The Brady Bunch wasn't real


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Can we go back to talking about the legalities of child labor law? 

I mean, hell, that was more intriguing then this whole "if I were the producer this is how I would have set the stage" crap.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Personally, I think the show is just fine as it is and am glad they're keeping the adult interaction down to just the one host adult.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Langree said:


> The Brady Bunch wasn't real


Well, nor is this show. 

But still, comparing "Kid Nation" to "Brady Bunch" (in terms of dramatic storytelling?) is a bit absurd.



macquariumguy said:


> Personally, I think the show is just fine as it is and am glad they're keeping the adult interaction down to just the one host adult.


+1


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Sure, but if they have a challenge that involves building a house of cards, that's when my Season Pass gets deleted.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

So no one objects too to the TV set as a prize, in the old west? You like the show as it is? You know what a good prize would have been, and what is really missing from that town? Horses! Kids would love to ride those and they could even hold races and stuff. These producers don't think at all. What if those kids had got the TV and had tuned in Fox or something? Hmmmm.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Magnolia88 said:


> According to several interviews with the KN kids, they generally worked about 14 hours a day.


Wha?!?

Great, now they're completely not ready for a job in this country where we require up to 6 hours per day of work. 

We liked the show. Even my wife who hates all things reality TV enjoyed it.

"Beauty Queens don't do dishes" :up:


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

visionary said:


> So no one objects too to the TV set as a prize, in the old west? You like the show as it is? You know what a good prize would have been, and what is really missing from that town? Horses! Kids would love to ride those and they could even hold races and stuff. These producers don't think at all. What if those kids had got the TV and had tuned in Fox or something? Hmmmm.


I think the tv as a prize was to show how the kids prioitized things and if they would think it through.

Horses would not be better unless one of these kids has been around them and can teach the others. Talk about liability.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

So when do the oldest boy and oldest girl put up their:

"If this wagon's a rockin', don't come a knockin'" bumper sticker up?



Spoiler



Kill a chicken? For 40 people? That better be one big chicken.


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## waldingrl (Jan 19, 2005)

Watched it with the 5 year old this weekend. We both liked it. He's counting the days until Wednesday for the new one. It was funny to watch his reaction to what was happening. He went from "I want to do this" to "I would NEVER do this" and back again.

As far as the older kids go - I was thinking because they are teens their behavior tends to get labeled as rebellious or bad. If adults were doing some of these things they would be labeled as "playing the game".


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

visionary said:


> These producers don't think at all.


You know what would be really really great? Zombies! I mean, just think about it. What goes better with old west ghost towns than zombies? The only real question would be if they should use the old slow shuffling zombies like in NOTLD or the fast zombies like in 28 Days Later. Personally, I'm a big fan of the fast zombies, but I think the kids might have trouble with them so the slow ones are probably the way to go.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Yah, slow zombies FTW.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

visionary said:


> Dancin, thanks, that means the network did the 7 min add, but now that makes a new dilema. Since many said they saw NO commercials, and it was still 67 min long then, what did they see I did not see while I saw the commercials? I looked again at my first one and it sure did not run while I was gone, it started right up where the TV was revealed. This is getting stranger and stranger...


I laughed at this post - not because it was comical or wrong or anything, but it's posted in a TiVo Community! I would venture to guess that even on a regular old network TV show that a majority of people would be very hard proessed to name any commercials they saw - commercials are what the FF button was made for!


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I'm wondering (since these kids are gifted) if any black market stuff will emerge.


A few of the red team could pool their money and buy all the popular candy and sell it on the side.

Or perhaps someone on the red team splits chores with one of the green team members so that when red's on the bottom they get help from a greenie.

Or perhaps a food fight.

Or perhaps someone drinks a cleaning product.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

macquariumguy said:


> You know what would be really really great? Zombies! I mean, just think about it. What goes better with old west ghost towns than zombies? The only real question would be if they should use the old slow shuffling zombies like in NOTLD or the fast zombies like in 28 Days Later. Personally, I'm a big fan of the fast zombies, but I think the kids might have trouble with them so the slow ones are probably the way to go.


Those weren't really zombies in 28 Days Later. They were infected with some virus that caused rage. It didn't reanimate the body. So the infected people in 28 Days Later were still alive, hence the reason they were fast and strong.

If you like fast and strong zombies, go see the new Resident Evil movie :up:

Seriously though, just because I'm a prankster and LOVED doing this kind of stuff at sleep overs...I'd be running around at night trying to convince the little kids that the town was haunted. Yeah, I'm mean.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

visionary said:


> It has been confirmed as a 58 min show in a 67 min time slot, and several say no commercials, so what filled all that time? For me, I know, but what for those who saw no commercials?


My recording was 60 minutes, so they simply didn't have any commercial breaks until the very end before the next program started.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

visionary said:


> So no one objects too to the TV set as a prize, in the old west? You like the show as it is? You know what a good prize would have been, and what is really missing from that town? Horses! Kids would love to ride those and they could even hold races and stuff. These producers don't think at all. What if those kids had got the TV and had tuned in Fox or something? Hmmmm.


Yah, Exactly! Because seeing how we have only seen one episode, we know everything thats going to happen the rest of the season.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

visionary said:


> I also see scriping in what they say, they talk like 50 year old women, that one accepting the award had what sounded like an Oscar acceptance speech. Kids giggle, talk nonsense and just try to get that many clean and neat together for the town meeting, on their own. They play no kids games either (hide/seek would be easy to do, hopscotch, rope jumping) never talk about kids stuff, no one ever mentions boy scouts or baseball or anything, it is just like they are reading scripts prepared by 50 year olds isn't it? There is the secret to be kept 3 years.... I bet.


You've never met my kid. He's ten, and he speaks like an adult. He's labeled highly gifted and he reads at a college level. In fact, he writes and spells much better than you do.

You just don't know gifted kids.

He would brush his teeth without being told, and he's never played a kid game and has no interest in sports and he doesn't own toys. The only kind he's ever liked are games. He'd much rather program a computer.

I'd miss him too much to let him go on this show though - even when he goes on field trips I get lonely. 

My friend's child is also considered highly gifted. They are more like inexperienced adults than they are children.

But, I like the zombie idea. I know these kids would want to take off the wrappings and see what's underneath.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Kable, wow, for that each affiliate doing ads had to tape and air the show delayed then, to put in the breaks I saw at 38 and 48 min in on the premier. Possible? I suppose, maybe that Phox guy who works in TV could say for sure. 

It does bring up a new oddity, the guide data. My recording was 67 mins, yet yours was 60. Shouldn't all the guide data be the same for same network show? What kind of a wierd plot is that? Maybe it is some secret organization trying to make US all into zombies. Those MASONS, bet they are behind this. Hmmmm... Some of us lost 7 minutes and saw no commercials.... others had regular 60 min show, sounds like a good plot for something. Maybe we are all triggered to do something when we hear some word now...

All you mentioning how your kids like watching, yet not a single AD directed at kids, in fact, Icy-hot, Vagisil and cosmetics were the ads, and no product placement either. We could have seen PILLSBURY flour bags for the hotcakes, Kraft Mac and cheese, and so on. I am right these producers don't think very well. Usually they will about income producing stuff, too!


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

justapixel said:


> But, I like the zombie idea. I know these kids would want to take off the wrappings and see what's underneath.


Those would be mummies


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

visionary said:


> All you mentioning how your kids like watching, yet not a single AD directed at kids, in fact, Icy-hot, Vagisil and cosmetics were the ads, and no product placement either. We could have seen PILLSBURY flour bags for the hotcakes, Kraft Mac and cheese, and so on. I am right these producers don't think very well. Usually they will about income producing stuff, too!


Almost every major sponsor refused to buy air time for this show. The commercials went to products that swooped in to buy the cheap ad time that nobody else wanted.

I would imagine the same thing happened wrt to product placement. Pillsbury and Kraft wanted nothing to do with this show, so they aren't going to allow their products to be mentioned. And somehow I don't see the producers working in a product placement for Icy Hot and Vagisil.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Magnolia, wow, what was their reason to dislike the show so much? Since CBS is there only to make money from ads, why was it aired at all if it produced such low income? They could always have put it on a cable channel and used the prime time for something making money I'd think. 

I saw nothing to offend, kept hoping they'd all skinny dip and bathe in a lake or something but it did not happen, great idea for the next show though... and build a stocks and pillory for those not working, the opposite of the star thing, and have a miss Kitty at the soda saloon, yep I could get lots and lots of viewers if I produced this.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

visionary said:


> Magnolia, wow, what was their reason to dislike the show so much?


They were scared of the controversy surrounding the show. The network refused to let advertisers or critics see the show before it aired, so advertisers had no basis for whether the show was truly controversial or not. Most erred on the side of caution and chose not to buy advertising.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

My hunch is the show will start to do well, and lots of big-name advertisers will come on board, (now that they see it's not some trashy "Lord of the Flies" type of experiment.)


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

visionary said:


> Kable, wow, for that each affiliate doing ads had to tape and air the show delayed then, to put in the breaks I saw at 38 and 48 min in on the premier. Possible? I suppose, maybe that Phox guy who works in TV could say for sure.


Don't forget I saw the repeat that was aired on a different night.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Kablemodem said:


> Don't forget I saw the repeat that was aired on a different night.


Aha! You must be part of the sinister conspiracy, then!

(And I'll bet you already buy Vagisil, anyway.)


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

visionary said:


> Kable, wow, for that each affiliate doing ads had to tape and air the show delayed then, to put in the breaks I saw at 38 and 48 min in on the premier. Possible? I suppose, maybe that Phox guy who works in TV could say for sure.


I can comment. On Wednesday the original premiere night CBS scheduled the show for 67 min with the only local break at the end of the episode. The rest of CBS primetime (including Letterman and the Late Late Show) was then shifted.

As for the rerun on Saturday I can not comment on.


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

visionary said:


> I saw nothing to offend, kept hoping they'd all skinny dip and bathe in a lake or something


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

visionary said:


> Kable, wow, for that each affiliate doing ads had to tape and air the show delayed then, to put in the breaks I saw at 38 and 48 min in on the premier. Possible? I suppose, maybe that Phox guy who works in TV could say for sure.
> 
> It does bring up a new oddity, the guide data. My recording was 67 mins, yet yours was 60. Shouldn't all the guide data be the same for same network show? What kind of a wierd plot is that? Maybe it is some secret organization trying to make US all into zombies. Those MASONS, bet they are behind this. Hmmmm... Some of us lost 7 minutes and saw no commercials.... others had regular 60 min show, sounds like a good plot for something. Maybe we are all triggered to do something when we hear some word now...
> 
> All you mentioning how your kids like watching, yet not a single AD directed at kids, in fact, Icy-hot, Vagisil and cosmetics were the ads, and no product placement either. We could have seen PILLSBURY flour bags for the hotcakes, Kraft Mac and cheese, and so on. I am right these producers don't think very well. Usually they will about income producing stuff, too!


I know this comment won't even register with you, but seriously, do you have even one ounce of reading comprehension? It's already been clearly established that the Wednesday night airing had two commercial breaks and the entire thing was 67 minutes. On Saturday night, it aired in the 60 minute slot with no commercials. Anyone who says they watched it on Wednesday night with no commercials is lying.

As for the reasons why the advertisers steered clear of this show, maybe you should read the first couple pages of this thread.


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

Dev, I comprehend just fine, and did not assume anyone would lie about something like commercials. You can have your opinion that this is the reason then, and I think it is something else because of the odd guide data and multiple people reporting it for one thing. 

I did read every post, and I still wonder why they did not take it over the border to film, unless someone can enlighten us about New Mexico having much different child labor laws. I also don't get why, once it was taped, they would not show first episode to sponsors? As far as critics, I would not show them anything I had on any show, let them review it once it's out.


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## shanew1289 (May 7, 2004)

$20,000 gold star. Wow.

Duration 1:07 on Date 9/19/2007


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Anyone who says they watched it on Wednesday night with no commercials is lying.


I watched it on Wednesday with no commercials. I'm not lying. My DVR automatically skips commercials, so I watched it with no commercials.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

scottykempf said:


> Oh, did anyone else notice the Vagisil and Icy Hot commercials? ?


That sounds painful.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

Clearly, Kid Nation is part of Bill Gates' grand conspiracy to deprive American children of insulin.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

AJRitz said:


> Clearly, Kid Nation is part of Bill Gates' grand conspiracy to deprive American children of insulin.


  :up:


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## Dreaday (Sep 21, 2006)

visionary said:


> I did read every post, and I still wonder why they did not take it over the border to film, unless someone can enlighten us about New Mexico having much different child labor laws.


No need to go to the border the kids aren't really doing much of anything if you ask me. Watching it makes me think of when i was a kid and I had to do chores. I mean don't most kids have to do them or is that a thing of the past. Well maybe the "work" they do is just like being at home for some while I bet many don't do anything. I think the council has the toughest job though, so many people relying on them to stir them in the right direction. For the most part I think the kids will be really appreciative for having this experience later in life. Heck I wish I was a kid so I could have the chance to win a 20, 000 dollar gold star


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