# Survivor: San Juan Del Sur "This is My Time" and "Live Reunion Show" OAD 12-18-2014



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Where is everybody?

Loved the Wicked Step Mother speech. I'm sure people will be divided on it, but I loved it.

Strange that Reed voted for Jacklyn. Stupid of them to take Nat instead of Keith. What were they thinking?!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Also loved the multiple times they showed Alec with his mouth open looking like the village idiot


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I hate to say it, since I've always disliked the "Twinnies," but I'd have voted for Natalie too. She just plain won that thing.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I looked up "Ephrata" (which was on the old man's shirt...not Keith, the other old man) and it's a town in Pennsylvania (?)...what's up with that? can't you find something better to wear on national TV?

his daughter looked like she got a boob job...


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

hefe said:


> I hate to say it, since I've always disliked the "Twinnies," but I'd have voted for Natalie too. She just plain won that thing.


Yeah, though I don't dislike her, I agree that Natalie played the best game, especially at the end. Giving the idol to Jacklyn was probably the biggest move of the game. Though she probably would have had just as good a chance against Baylor as anyone else left, aside from Keith.

Really entertaining finish.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Good finale. It was nice to see the right person win.

Dalton's recap: http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/survivor-san-juan-del-sur-finale-winner/


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## Cragmyre (Mar 8, 2004)

Anubys said:


> Where is everybody?
> 
> Loved the Wicked Step Mother speech. I'm sure people will be divided on it, but I loved it.
> 
> Strange that Reed voted for Jacklyn. Stupid of them to take Nat instead of Keith. What were they thinking?!


My guess is Reed did that to ensure that Missy was third.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

Cragmyre said:


> My guess is Reed did that to ensure that Missy was third.


Aah good point - makes total sense.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I think Missy was third no matter what. Reed was just being a drama queen (much like he was during that reward challenge when he called Baylor a 'brat' and got into a verbal bout with Missy). 

Missy gave a surprisingly good speech at final Tribal. I was impressed she made as good a case for herself as she did. 

Regarding choosing Natalie over Keith... I think they all knew they were deciding who to give the $1m to at that point and they chose Natalie. They weren't going to beat either of them so they went with someone who deserved it more (which she did by her game play even though Keith was stronger at challenges).

"village idiot" <--- spot on. 

Who won Fan Favorite? I haven't watched that far but don't care if it's spoiled.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Agree with everyone so far. I thought Natalie was sunk when Jaclyn came out of nowhere and won that last immunity challenge. I was thinking they should know Natalie is going to win if they don't vote her out so I was afraid she was gone. But maybe jradosh is right, it's the only logical explanation. When Jeff polled the jury as to how they would vote if Natalie wasn't in the final 3 Keith wins. I suppose Missy and Jaclyn might have known that and didn't want Keith to win.

Also agree about Alec. I don't think they ever got a shot of him with his mouth closed.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

jradosh said:


> I think Missy was third no matter what.


How was she third no matter what? Reed knew that both Missy and Jackie were most likely only going to receive one vote each - from their loved ones. His vote put Missy in third.

Jackie kept saying that she need the $1 million to start a family. Is there an operation to correct her condition? Was she talking about adopting? While I feel bad for her, that is not a reason to vote for someone as the winner of Survivor. And being divorced three times is even less of a reason.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Jackie kept saying that she need the $1 million to start a family. Is there an operation to correct her condition? Was she talking about adopting? While I feel bad for her, that is not a reason to vote for someone as the winner of Survivor.


I don't remember any specific mention now, but in my mind I have "adoption", though surrogacy could be one of their other options. She herself would not be able to bear the child, though.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Once again Natalie made a big move by orchestrating Baylor's removal from the game. While she probably would have won anyway, it showed how hard she played until the end.

As I said last week this was of the best Survivor performances ever. Boston Rob, the season he controlled all those young girls, also comes to mind. 

Great job by Natalie.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Family said:


> Once again Natalie made a big move by orchestrating Baylor's removal from the game. While she probably would have won anyway, it showed how hard she played until the end.
> 
> As I said last week this was of the best Survivor performances ever. Boston Rob, the season he controlled all those young girls, also comes to mind.
> 
> Great job by Natalie.


Yep, didn't like the Twinnies during TAR, but I thought Nat won this based on game play and about half way through the season, I called it. I have no problem with her winning and she wasn't half as annoying as she was on TAR (maybe, her playing alone was the reason...no partner in crime, as they say).

I was surprised there was no "America's favorite player" this season, but I'm betting they didn't have a sponsor for it. In fact, as far as I could tell there were NO sponsored challenges at all. No Sprint calls from home or food sponsor. Personally, I always hated the "Rupert award" as my son calls it for favorite player. The winner should have the complete spotlight.

Also noticed that the reunion show has really gotten much shorter. They didn't announce the winner until almost 15 minutes into the 10 o'clock block.

Not sure about the new season coming up. Seems they are really grasping at straws for a theme this time around. And once again, location doesn't matter any more. Are they back in the same location again?

Decent season, but not among my favorites.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> And once again, location doesn't matter any more. Are they back in the same location again?


Info gleaned from Dalton's blog.


Spoiler



Yes, Nicaragua again for season 30.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Maybe it's just me but I don't think Missy has been divorced 3 times because she's a hopeless romantic.

As long as there is no RI and no returning players I'm fine with however they want to classify the tribes next season.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I think Keith's advantage was too much. Considering the learning curve of that challenge, given hours to practice really guaranteed him a win. And he even struggled at the real challenge at the start, but then ended up beating all of them 3-0.
I think it would've been fairer to do something like just make him get 2 balls in instead of 3. And no practice.

So glad Natalie won. I too was on the hater bandwagon at the start based on her Amazing Race appearances, but her game play won me over.


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

VegasVic said:


> Maybe it's just me but I don't think Missy has been divorced 3 times because she's a hopeless romantic.
> 
> As long as there is no RI and no returning players I'm fine with however they want to classify the tribes next season.


A hopeless romantic who makes poor choices in men.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Shorter reunion show is fine with me. Since they no longer feel the need to talk with everyone they can get what they want from the main players in a shorter time. 

I was very happy going into the season that it was all new players with no RI. But this season didn't really do it for me. The Blood vs. Water thing was fine but no players will stood out to me as really likeable or unlikeable.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Not sure about the new season coming up. Seems they are really grasping at straws for a theme this time around. And once again, location doesn't matter any more. Are they back in the same location again?


For the past few years now they have been shooting two Survivor seasons back to back at the same location. It saves them a significant amount of money in doing so. There has even been a player or two that have competed in both seasons back to back. Also means the final 3 or 2 from the second season have to wait a long long time to see who is going to win.


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## ireland967 (Feb 27, 2003)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Jackie kept saying that she need the $1 million to start a family. Is there an operation to correct her condition? Was she talking about adopting? While I feel bad for her, that is not a reason to vote for someone as the winner of Survivor. And being divorced three times is even less of a reason.


I thought that was a really odd comment of hers, she seemed to say winning was the only way she'd be able to have a family with Jon. I don't discredit for a second the time and expense they face going either the fertilization or adoption route, but it doesn't seem like they absolutely require a million dollar prize for it to be possible, and that also isn't a great message to others with her condition.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

I was glad Natalie won, I was afraid they were going to vote her out and was surprised that she was able to convince the others to keep her. When Reed voted for Jaclyn I was afraid there might be a bitter jury (although only Jeremy seemed bitter after being voted out). I also thought he knew Natalie was going to win and threw Jacklyn the voted to get her 2nd.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I thought that Missy and Jaclyn sunk themselves in their speeches (at least to me) while Natalie won me over. I don't know that there's anything they could have done to actually win, but once Missy started talking about orchestrating votes and controlling "her people" I started wondering if I watched the same game. And I wanted to want to give Jaclyn a chance, but once she brought up her syndrome as a reason, it felt like a blatant sympathy play and that turned me off. Natalie was pretty well on point, and had real tangible examples of how she played everyone. And for a change, the jury was generally fair in their consideration and not overly emotional about getting backstabbed. They respected the game that got Natalie there.

Except Reed. WTF was his problem? I guess he just wanted the stage and wanted to make a memorable speech. I didn't understand why Missy would deserve that over anyone else that played. And to compound it, he had a chance to make it right at the reunion. Once he was told and realized how deeply and personally he had hurt her, he should have apologized. His rationalization that he was just talking about "game Missy" made him look like an ass. He made it personal for his own grandstanding. He's a performer. He knew what he was doing, and cared more about that than being a decent human being. Once they were out of the game, at the reunion, he decided to just twist the knife again. A real jerk move.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I don't buy the informal revote that Jeff called. I think Keith would have won by more had he been there at the end, even over Natalie. They did the right thing in keeping Nat and voting out Keith, even if they still knew they probably couldnt beat Nat in the end. They had a better chance.


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## CraigK (Jun 9, 2006)

jradosh said:


> Who won Fan Favorite? I haven't watched that far but don't care if it's spoiled.


There was no Fan Favorite vote. They haven't had one for the last three Survivors.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I would be ok with the right returning players in future seasons.....someone like Rob Cesternino, etc.

But, puleeeeze, if there are returning players, don't let the family name be one that starts with an H and ends with a Z.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I would like to see the number of times someone can play strictly capped at 2.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

What was Natalie's reason for saving Jaclyn and voting out Baylor? It seemed to have more risk than reward. I don't think Baylor would have received any more votes than Jaclyn did and there was a better chance of Missy and Baylor keeping Natalie around than Jaclyn and Missy doing so. It worked out for her but it still seems like it was a bigger risk.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Azlen said:


> What was Natalie's reason for saving Jaclyn and voting out Baylor? It seemed to have more risk than reward. I don't think Baylor would have received any more votes than Jaclyn did and there was a better chance of Missy and Baylor keeping Natalie around than Jaclyn and Missy doing so. It worked out for her but it still seems like it was a bigger risk.


Maybe she felt that Baylor was a bigger risk in terms of winning immunity. Or maybe she just didn't have complete trust in Baylor/Missy.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

An occassional "all-star" season is fine. But no more Russell, no more Rupert.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

VegasVic said:


> An occassional "all-star" season is fine. But no more Russell, no more Rupert.


Not until _Survivor: Del Boca Vista_.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I think Natalie kept Jaclyn for a few reasons.

To break up the last pair and avoid the possibility of them combining votes if both made it to the final three (eg - a pitch where Missy tells the jury that anyone who might vote for her should vote for her daughter instead). Also to deny them the achievement of both making it to the end.

To notch up another big game move. Blindsides count with the jury if you can do it without making enemies, and it seems Natalie consistently pulled that off pretty well. 

Similarly, Jon & Jaclyn could have been a block of 2 votes against Natalie, where Baylor was just one vote. Baylor didn't have friends on the jury to be mad because she was voted out.

So that Jaclyn would owe her in case she failed to gain immunity at the final challenge. Of course, Jaclyn could have sent her to the jury anyway, but when the time came she didn't.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

I've read that CBS is considering a weekly series where Jacklyn just walks around the beach in a bikini for the entire hour.

Ok, maybe not.

But I'd watch it if they did.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

It was a risky move, but I think Natalie did the right thing getting rid of Baylor. She was extremely tight with Baylor, but she didn't necessarily have that same relationship with Missy. Natalie was worried that if she didn't win the final immunity challenge, Missy could successfully convince Baylor to not take her to the final three. Instead, she rolled the dice and took a gamble that she would be able to convince Jacklyn to take her. She probably would have wound up in the final three either way, but she took a calculated risk, and it paid off. It was also another bold move that could impress the jury, and she knew that the only person that would be upset with her by it wouldn't be voting for her anyway.

Overall, it was a very lame season. Fortunately, Natalie stepped it up down the stretch with some very bold and entertaining gameplay. I would have been very upset if anyone else had won but her. When Jacklyn won the final immunity challenge, I turned to my wife and said "Holy crap! Keith is going to win this game!" I was absolutely certain that Natalie was toast. To her credit, she convinced Jacklyn that it was a better move to get rid of Keith. It turns out that Jacklyn would have lost either way, but she flat out admitted during the reunion show that Natalie played her.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Hcour said:


> I've read that CBS is considering a weekly series where Jacklyn just walks around the beach in a bikini for the entire hour.
> 
> Ok, maybe not.
> 
> But I'd watch it if they did.


I'll watch!! She doesn't talk right??

She looked better on the beach than on the reunion show.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> Except Reed. WTF was his problem? I guess he just wanted the stage and wanted to make a memorable speech. I didn't understand why Missy would deserve that over anyone else that played. And to compound it, he had a chance to make it right at the reunion. Once he was told and realized how deeply and personally he had hurt her, he should have apologized. His rationalization that he was just talking about "game Missy" made him look like an ass. He made it personal for his own grandstanding. He's a performer. He knew what he was doing, and cared more about that than being a decent human being. Once they were out of the game, at the reunion, he decided to just twist the knife again. A real jerk move.


This. My gut feeling, is, as a student and fan of the game, Reed just wanted his 15 minutes of fame (or however long it took). I bet he rehearsed that speech for a long time and was going to say it no matter what. At the point he said it, did it really make a difference?

I also wondered why Baylor put her mom on the spot about game play and didn't try and grill the other two hoping they would put foot firmly in mouth.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jlb said:


> I would be ok with the right returning players in future seasons.....someone like Rob Cesternino, etc.
> 
> But, puleeeeze, if there are returning players, don't let the family name be one that starts with an H and ends with a Z.


Please, no more Boston Rob, or anyone who's been on more than twice. I don't mind players coming back, every so often, but not the same ones over and over again.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> This. My gut feeling, is, as a student and fan of the game, Reed just wanted his 15 minutes of fame (or however long it took). I bet he rehearsed that speech for a long time and was going to say it no matter what.


Exactly. It was his "rat and snake" speech. It was intricate and well rehearsed.


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## hfcsyrup (Dec 12, 2012)

anyone else notice when probst went into the audience at the beginning and gave the little girl rice, the 'this seat reserved for Jaclyn family', in the middle front row? pretty obvious spoiler she made it to final 3/2 right then. i'll admit i thought she won based on that, so glad nat won instead. 
Reed's speech was the only entertaining part of the q&a. the opposite of his partner Josh's question which was identically already asked and answered.
they really need an extended reunion, just post it online if cbs doesnt want to broadcast it. did they even get to nat's sister? wouldnt that be someone you talk to? her twin? but nope. probst has to go into the audience every 3 minutes and fumble over dumb twitter handles and tell us how many calories we eat.
i'm glad they got rid of them walking around paying respects to the previous people. curious, do they still do it and it isnt aired or they scrap it altogether?


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

hfcsyrup said:


> i'm glad they got rid of them walking around paying respects to the previous people. curious, do they still do it and it isnt aired or they scrap it altogether?


Last season they filmed it and didn't show it. This season they didn't even film it.

I actually like it. I tend to forget the people that played early on and it's a nice reminder of them.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Donbadabon said:


> Last season they filmed it and didn't show it. This season they didn't even film it.
> 
> I actually like it. I tend to forget the people that played early on and it's a nice reminder of them.


I like it too, but I'm in the minority around here. To me, paying homage to those who you voted off, in the heat of battle is the perfect segue into the final TC. IRC, they haven't shown it in several seasons.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I liked it too.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Missy was all offended by Reed's evil step-mother speech because she has been a step-mother. I'd like to know what her former step children think of her.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

jradosh said:


> I think Missy was third no matter what. Reed was just being a drama queen (much like he was during that reward challenge when he called Baylor a 'brat' and got into a verbal bout with Missy). .


Missy was the one looking for drama when Reed called Baylor a brat.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> And once again, location doesn't matter any more. Are they back in the same location again? Decent season, but not among my favorites.





heySkippy said:


> Info gleaned from Dalton's blog. * SPOILER *





Azlen said:


> For the past few years now they have been shooting two Survivor seasons back to back at the same location. It saves them a significant amount of money in doing so. There has even been a player or two that have competed in both seasons back to back. Also means the final 3 or 2 from the second season have to wait a long long time to see who is going to win.


Just to elaborate further:

Seasons 19 & 20 - Samoa
Seasons 21 & 22 - Nicaragua
Seasons 23 & 24 - Samoa
Seasons 25 & 26 - Caramoan, Philippines
Seasons 27 & 28 - Cagayan, Philippines
Seasons 29 & 30 - Nicaragua

So no, the location hasn't mattered for the spring edition of the show for several years.



Azlen said:


> What was Natalie's reason for saving Jaclyn and voting out Baylor? It seemed to have more risk than reward. I don't think Baylor would have received any more votes than Jaclyn did and there was a better chance of Missy and Baylor keeping Natalie around than Jaclyn and Missy doing so. It worked out for her but it still seems like it was a bigger risk.


I thought this was a big risk as well. I figured Natalie's ideal final three would be against Baylor and Missy. Natalie might have won 8-0 in that scenario. It worked out for her anyway, but I'm not sure it was the smartest move. I wonder if she didn't realize how much the jury disliked Missy and Baylor.

Count me as one that loved the"Wicked Stepmother" speech and totally agreed with it. I'm glad Reed didn't soften its impact by apologizing for it at the finale.

I really wish Probst would spend the time in the finale talking to the contestants rather than the audience. There were so many more compelling questions that could have been asked of the cast rather than us hearing a random sentence here and there from someone in the audience. And if we're still watching at minute 55 of the reunion show, we're clearly hooked so we don't need a 5-minute sales job to bring us back for the next season.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Maybe Natalie thought that since she had single-handedly saved Jaclyn, she wouldn't dare vote her out. 

I loved Reed's rant and think Missy deserved it. Her whole, nobody can say a bad word about my daughter thing was a pain--everyone had a loved one there and nobody else did that. I liked that he blamed her for all the rice being gone, and for being bossy. :up:

I wonder if Nadia is the one who caused us all to hate the Twinnies? 

I wasn't too crazy about Jeff talking to the crowd before the reunion show. I liked it better when they spent more time with the survivors.

For some reason Jaclyn didn't look nearly as much like "Fringe girl"


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

The reunion show is horrible because it's all about Jeff. It used to feature the just finished season focusing on contestants point of views, & now it's "The Jeff Probst Survivor Finale Special."


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

JFriday said:


> She looked better on the beach than on the reunion show.


Obviously, it was nice to see Jacklyn walking around in a skimpy bikini, but I thought she looked better on the reunion show. By the end of the game she was completely emaciated.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought this was a big risk as well. I figured Natalie's ideal final three would be against Baylor and Missy. Natalie might have won 8-0 in that scenario. It worked out for her anyway, but I'm not sure it was the smartest move. I wonder if she didn't realize how much the jury disliked Missy and Baylor.





heySkippy said:


> I think Natalie kept Jaclyn for a few reasons.
> ...
> 
> To notch up another big game move. Blindsides count with the jury if you can do it without making enemies, and it seems Natalie consistently pulled that off pretty well.
> ...


I think it might have been this. By doing so, she firmly established that she was the one in control of the game and she was the one making the big moves. I think that she would have won anyway but she couldn't count on that in the position she was in.

I also believe that Natalie was the beneficiary of Keith winning immunity when he did. If the final four had been Missy, Baylor, Natalie and Jaclyn, I'm not sure if Natalie makes it into the final three if she didn't win immunity. She may have but you would have to think that Missy and Baylor may think they had a better shot against Jaclyn then they did Natalie.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Jackie kept saying that she need the $1 million to start a family. Is there an operation to correct her condition? Was she talking about adopting? While I feel bad for her, that is not a reason to vote for someone as the winner of Survivor.


They want to adopt but they don't want to have to earn the money needed for it 

I was very annoyed when she started talking about wanting to show little girls with her condition that she can achieve things (like winning). Just because you can't have children doesn't mean you're suddenly incapable of doing anything. It seemed like a gratuitous way to get sympathy from the audience.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Listened to interviews with the top 5. Natalie made a good argument that if Missy and Baylor are together at the Final Four, that's two votes that Natalie would have zero control over, whereas if one of them is gone, then the other will probably align with Natalie

Also, Baylor said that at Final Four she was planning to pull her mom aside and convince her to get rid of Natalie. Baylor wasn't sure if Missy would have gone along with it, but it's what Baylor wanted to do. But Natalie beat her to the punch. 

Missy is operating under the delusion that she had the game wrapped up until she hurt her ankle and then it just became too difficult to play a good social game after that.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Count me in the camp that:
1) Hated Twinnies on TAR but am thrilled that Natalie won
2) Loved Reed's speech
3) Was glad to see Jaclyn get 2nd and not Missy

I'm really glad this wasn't a bitter jury. Not one of the best seasons, but I was happy with how it ended.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

I always liked the twins. I have twin sisters so I always overlooked the bickering and twinnie stuff. They were a strong team in their first season of AR. 

Reed's speech seemed a bit over the top. The jury was bitter, but they gave Missy lots of credit/blame so she was the one that they were bitter with.


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## R1elvis (May 16, 2014)

Even though Julie quit... I thought by far she was the best looking female out there this year... IMO she smokes Jaclyn and Baylor....


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Another tidbit from the interviews I heard: Jaclyn didn't get the combo to win the final immunity challenge on the first try. She got up there, tried the numbers and got it wrong, so she had to go back down, look at the numbers again, and run back up the stairs. But apparently the others sucked so bad at the puzzle that it didn't matter.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Having to leave holes in the puzzle like that was a great twist and probably made the puzzle about 10x harder than it would have been otherwise. Nice!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

R1elvis said:


> Even though Julie quit... I thought by far she was the best looking female out there this year... IMO she smokes Jaclyn and Baylor....


Speaking of which, I'm surprised they didn't talk about this at the reunion.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Speaking of which, I'm surprised they didn't talk about this at the reunion.


Of all the players Jeff didn't talk to (Nadiya, Val, Drew, Dale, Kelley, Julie, Alec), Julie is the one I'm least surprised about. He usually doesn't have much love for quitters, and now that he's no longer making a point to talk to every player, I would have been more surprised if he did talk to Julie.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

realityboy said:


> I always liked the twins. I have twin sisters so I always overlooked the bickering and twinnie stuff. They were a strong team in their first season of AR.
> 
> Reed's speech seemed a bit over the top. The jury was bitter, but they gave Missy lots of credit/blame so she was the one that they were bitter with.


I guess we have different definitions of a bitter jury then. To me, a bitter jury doesn't reward the best player. This jury recognized that Natalie played the best game, was responsible for many of them getting voted out, and rewarded her for it. The didn't like Missy, but Missy was not the best player. Not a bitter jury at all IMO. YMMV.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Did I miss the Survivor auction this year or did they not do one?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

No auction this year, much to my wife's disappointment.

FWIW, I was browsing youtube yesterday and stumbled across a compilation of what appears to be all of the Survivor auctions in one 90 minute long video. I had no idea there was so much Survivor video on youtube, but there's quite a lot.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I guess we have different definitions of a bitter jury then. To me, a bitter jury doesn't reward the best player. This jury recognized that Natalie played the best game, was responsible for many of them getting voted out, and rewarded her for it. The didn't like Missy, but Missy was not the best player. Not a bitter jury at all IMO. YMMV.


Only Reed seemed bitter.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

goblue97 said:


> Did I miss the Survivor auction this year or did they not do one?


I love the auctions. People spending all their money on cookies and milk is entertaining to me.

I hated this season didn't have one. I hope next season does.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

hefe said:


> Only Reed seemed bitter.


I don't really think anyone, not even Reed, was bitter. To me, in Survivor, the word bitter means "I'm angry that you played better than me and got further than me, possibly by turning on me". I don't think that describes Reed at all. He was just upset that Missy is a terribly annoying person. She's bossy, inconsiderate, and she won't even let her own adult daughter stick up for herself when an extremely minor insult gets thrown at her (and it really wasn't even an insult...I call my own daughter a brat....it just means "you're behaving badly")


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> I don't really think anyone, not even Reed, was bitter. To me, in Survivor, the word bitter means "I'm angry that you played better than me and got further than me, possibly by turning on me". I don't think that describes Reed at all. He was just upset that Missy is a terribly annoying person. She's bossy, inconsiderate, and she won't even let her own adult daughter stick up for herself when an extremely minor insult gets thrown at her (and it really wasn't even an insult...I call my own daughter a brat....it just means "you're behaving badly")


He was the most bitter person I've seen in a while.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

LordKronos said:


> I don't really think anyone, not even Reed, was bitter. To me, in Survivor, the word bitter means "I'm angry that you played better than me and got further than me, possibly by turning on me". I don't think that describes Reed at all. He was just upset that Missy is a terribly annoying person. She's bossy, inconsiderate, and she won't even let her own adult daughter stick up for herself when an extremely minor insult gets thrown at her (and it really wasn't even an insult...I call my own daughter a brat....it just means "you're behaving badly")


I agree with all of this.



hefe said:


> He was the most bitter person I've seen in a while.


I agree with LordKronos' description of Reed and how he felt about Missy. He didn't vote for Natalie, but I think because he knew his vote would give Jaclyn 2nd place. That seems pretty smart to me, not bitter.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

My mouth was hanging open when Reed gave that speech - holy, moly!!!

The right person won.

I always think everyone looks better on the Island than at the Reunion show. Too much make-up and hair. I think most of them look better au natural...


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

hefe said:


> Only Reed seemed bitter.


Jeremy was pretty bitter at Ponderosa but the person he was aligned with was in the finals and won.


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Another tidbit from the interviews I heard: Jaclyn didn't get the combo to win the final immunity challenge on the first try. She got up there, tried the numbers and got it wrong, so she had to go back down, look at the numbers again, and run back up the stairs. But apparently the others sucked so bad at the puzzle that it didn't matter.


Wow. After her last trip down that fireman's pole, I was hoping she'd get the combo right the first time as I didn't know if she would survive another trip down that pole. She wasn't wrapping her legs around it at all, and was almost basically surviving a fall from however many feet up that was. Ouch! However, it's possible the bad fall they showed us was indeed her last trip down the pole and second try and the combination.

As for Reed, put me in what appears to be the minority camp who did not like his speech. I'm not a fan of Missy in the least, but she did not deserve that from him. It was pure showmanship done to be as dramatic as possible at her expense. And then at the reunion show for all of this talk about how much of a Christian he is, I found that to be particularly appalling.

On the other hand I was a big Josh fan during his time in the game. Kind of like Colton and Caleb (RIP).


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I agree with all of this.
> 
> I agree with LordKronos' description of Reed and how he felt about Missy. He didn't vote for Natalie, but I think because he knew his vote would give Jaclyn 2nd place. That seems pretty smart to me, not bitter.


Maybe, but his whole performance came from a bitter place.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

kettledrum said:


> Wow. After her last trip down that fireman's pole, I was hoping she'd get the combo right the first time as I didn't know if she would survive another trip down that pole. She wasn't wrapping her legs around it at all, and was almost basically surviving a fall from however many feet up that was. Ouch! However, it's possible the bad fall they showed us was indeed her last trip down the pole and second try and the combination.


She said that because the poles were wooden, you'd get splinters if you held onto them and slid down, so she was trying to hold as loosely as she could. She said when she fell that time, it knocked the wind out of her, but she wasn't about to give up or allow herself to be medevaced.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> She said that because the poles were wooden, you'd get splinters if you held onto them and slid down, so she was trying to hold as loosely as she could. She said when she fell that time, it knocked the wind out of her, but she wasn't about to give up or allow herself to be medevaced.


Medavaced for knocking the wind out of her? She's funny.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JFriday said:


> Medavaced for knocking the wind out of her? She's funny.


It was in response to the question posed to her. The questioner said that the way they presented it in the episode, he was afraid she'd been seriously hurt and might have to be pulled. So that's why she mentioned that she wasn't about to let herself be medevaced. It had nothing to do with the fact that she got the wind knocked out of her.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

LordKronos said:


> I don't really think anyone, not even Reed, was bitter. To me, in Survivor, the word bitter means "I'm angry that you played better than me and got further than me, possibly by turning on me". I don't think that describes Reed at all. He was just upset that Missy is a terribly annoying person. She's bossy, inconsiderate, and she won't even let her own adult daughter stick up for herself when an extremely minor insult gets thrown at her (and it really wasn't even an insult...I call my own daughter a brat....it just means "you're behaving badly")




hummingbird_206 said:


> I agree with all of this.




nyny523 said:


> My mouth was hanging open when Reed gave that speech - holy, moly!!!


all of the above.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> I love the auctions. People spending all their money on cookies and milk is entertaining to me.
> 
> I hated this season didn't have one. I hope next season does.


They also didn't have any family visits but considering the theme of the season it makes sense that they didn't have one.

Speaking of Survivor traditions, how long has it been since they've given away a car towards the end of the show? There was a thing going on for awhile to avoid trying to win the car because whoever won the car never won the show but that's long gone it seems.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Did anyone else think that whenever they showed Wes in the jury during the last two TCs, it looked like they were using a 4:3 camera and then stretching it to fill the 16:9 frame?

Man that kid gained his weight back in a hurry. I wonder if he went home weighing more than when he arrived.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Did anyone else think that whenever they showed Wes in the jury during the last two TCs, it looked like they were using a 4:3 camera and then stretching it to fill the 16:9 frame?


Absolutely! I wanted to grab for the remote to switch resolutions every time.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Did anyone else think that whenever they showed Wes in the jury during the last two TCs, it looked like they were using a 4:3 camera and then stretching it to fill the 16:9 frame?
> 
> Man that kid gained his weight back in a hurry. I wonder if he went home weighing more than when he arrived.


He gained over 10 pounds back the first day at Ponderosa.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JFriday said:


> He gained over 10 pounds back the first day at Ponderosa.


Right. That's what I was referring to. I wonder if by the end of his time at Ponderosa he gained more weight than he lost during his time in the game.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

hummingbird_206 said:


> That seems pretty smart to me, not bitter.


Not only was Reed bitter, he wasn't exhibiting Christian values that Probst so loudly proclaimed.


----------



## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

IMO, this was a very weak season of survivor. I didn't like Natalie, but didn't really like anyone else either. It seemed she just made moves to make moves, but since everyone else played a very poor game, it couldn't hurt her.

And I know he's stated it's part of the show, but Jeff's rhetoric just seems to get more and more annoying.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> Last season they filmed it and didn't show it. This season they didn't even film it.
> 
> I actually like it. I tend to forget the people that played early on and it's a nice reminder of them.


How do you know they didn't film it?

It was my assumption (maybe a bad one) that they make this part of the contestants' Survivor experience, but that they decided to leave it on the cutting room floor and not air it...


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

MikeekiM said:


> How do you know they didn't film it?


http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/12/17/survivor-finale-jeff-probst-san-juan-del-sur/



> Okay, biggest question of the night: Will we be treated to the Rites of Passage tribute where the final four collect the torches of the people they voted out, or is that hitting the editing room floor again?
> 
> We didn't even shoot it. We're not planning on doing that anytime in the near future-unless we come upon a season where&#8230;I don't know what it would be, but there might be some creative where we're like, okay, that makes sense.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Interesting...

So did they go through the motions, but didn't shoot it?

Or did they simply not do it at all? Do we know?


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I don't think they did it at all. It wouldn't serve the players any purpose, it was purely a TV thing.

I really liked it though, and wish they would reconsider. I know a lot of people thought it was a waste of time though.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I am not sure I loved it from a television viewing perspective...

But as a player who has spent considerable amounts of time with each of the past players, I think it "completes" their experience by honoring each of their "fallen comrades" and end it with a big *ss fire at the end (like they always do)...

I think it should absolutely be part of the player experience...


----------



## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

Azlen said:


> What was Natalie's reason for saving Jaclyn and voting out Baylor?


It's pretty simple. If Missy and Baylor are both in the final four, then they decide who gets voted out. It's not possible to vote out anybody else.

Natalie was smart to get rid of one of them, and even smarter for it to be Baylor, who likely would have received more votes in the final TC. But voting either of them out was the necessary move. It free up the final four, and provided Natalie enough flexibility to achieve what she did; convincing Jaclyn to vote out Keith instead of Natalie.

And I absolutely loved the way she did it. Natalie played an outstanding game, and she definitely deserved to win.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I love how Missy keeps telling people in interviews that she was the mastermind behind everything. The only thing that kept her from winning was the broken ankle.

I'm sure she also thinks she was the perfect wife 3 times now!


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I guess we have different definitions of a bitter jury then. To me, a bitter jury doesn't reward the best player. This jury recognized that Natalie played the best game, was responsible for many of them getting voted out, and rewarded her for it. The didn't like Missy, but Missy was not the best player. Not a bitter jury at all IMO. YMMV.


There can be a stupid jury that attributes strategic moves to the wrong person or there can be a bitter jury that is basically voting against the person they want to lose. This jury was both. They seemed to attribute a lot of the strategic play to Missy, but they were so bitter against her that they voted Natalie instead. They ended up in the right place for the wrong reason. Not all of them, but enough to make a difference.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> No auction this year, much to my wife's disappointment.


After last season where multiple people waited to bid all their money on the last item (advantage), I wonder if they've decided the auction is dead. It seems like once the players "get it" they do away with a specific type of challenge.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

InterMurph said:


> It's pretty simple. If Missy and Baylor are both in the final four, then they decide who gets voted out. It's not possible to vote out anybody else.
> 
> Natalie was smart to get rid of one of them, and even smarter for it to be Baylor, who likely would have received more votes in the final TC. But voting either of them out was the necessary move. It free up the final four, and provided Natalie enough flexibility to achieve what she did; convincing Jaclyn to vote out Keith instead of Natalie.
> 
> And I absolutely loved the way she did it. Natalie played an outstanding game, and she definitely deserved to win.


I agree with everything you said except the reason to get rid of Baylor. I think getting rid of Baylor over Missy was smart because Missy was no threat in the final challenges. I know Baylor won at least one (the moving the blocks with the feet one). Can't remember if she won others? But either way, she wasn't injured and Missy was, so keeping Missy was the better choice for that reason.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Overall, the jury (with the exception of Reed) was pretty soft...

Useless and meaningless questions...and sometimes, no question at all...just a speech...


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

realityboy said:


> There can be a stupid jury that attributes strategic moves to the wrong person or there can be a bitter jury that is basically voting against the person they want to lose. This jury was both. They seemed to attribute a lot of the strategic play to Missy, but they were so bitter against her that they voted Natalie instead. They ended up in the right place for the wrong reason. Not all of them, but enough to make a difference.


Missy was the only person I heard attribute strategic play to Missy. I don't think any of the jury gave Missy any credit nor did she deserve any. She only did what first Jon and then Natalie told her to do. I think everyone recognized that except Missy (and maybe Baylor, but Missy even did what Baylor told her in the end to get rid of Jon.)


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I love how Nat asked Jaclyn aloud "did you vote for who I told you to vote for" before playing the idol...

Big, big message to the jury that "I am in control"...

She claims she doesn't remember doing this...but I don't believe her...this was a huge strategic move...it was deliberate and planful... Loved it!


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

madscientist said:


> After last season where multiple people waited to bid all their money on the last item (advantage), I wonder if they've decided the auction is dead. It seems like once the players "get it" they do away with a specific type of challenge.


They could remedy that by putting a cover on everything and tell them at some point an advantage will be auctioned off.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I dunno. Having an auction where you never have any idea what you're bidding on doesn't seem like a good challenge, to me anyway. It's basically just a free-for-all on who gets lucky: there's no strategy or skill or anything involved. I wouldn't like it. Not that I like the auction challenges much anyway.


----------



## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> I don't think they did it at all. It wouldn't serve the players any purpose, it was purely a TV thing.
> 
> I really liked it though, and wish they would reconsider. I know a lot of people thought it was a waste of time though.


I fast forwarded through it every time.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Loved the stepmother speech because I couldn't stand Missy and I enjoy a well-delivered speech. 

As usual, everyone looked better on the island. I almost didn't recognize Jaclyn. 

I'm good with Nat winning. 

Bring on Season 30!


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I don't know, Reed looked pretty hot at the reunion... the other guy is a lucky guy.  I can't remember what his name is. 

Once Jaclyn picked the two to sit with her, I figured it would go down the way it did, although the second vote for Jaclyn did surprise me. I figured no one would vote for Missy except Baylor, and then it would be a tossup between Natalie and Jaclyn for everyone else's vote (except Jon's obviously) with Natalie taking them all because she really did play the better game.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Did anyone else think that whenever they showed Wes in the jury during the last two TCs, it looked like they were using a 4:3 camera and then stretching it to fill the 16:9 frame?
> 
> Man that kid gained his weight back in a hurry. I wonder if he went home weighing more than when he arrived.


That's too funny! I said the same thing to my wife that he looks heavier than when he got there and it was all in his face!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I agree with all of this.
> 
> I agree with LordKronos' description of Reed and how he felt about Missy. He didn't vote for Natalie, but I think because he knew his vote would give Jaclyn 2nd place. That seems pretty smart to me, not bitter.


Reed was looking for his 5 minutes of fame. As he's said, he's watched Survivor since the beginning and is a fan. No doubt he's seen the Rat and Snake speech and he wanted one of his own. Missy was low hanging fruit, so he went after her. Simple as that.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Not that he was wrong with his assessment.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

ireland967 said:


> I thought that was a really odd comment of hers, she seemed to say winning was the only way she'd be able to have a family with Jon. I don't discredit for a second the time and expense they face going either the fertilization or adoption route, but it doesn't seem like they absolutely require a million dollar prize for it to be possible, and that also isn't a great message to others with her condition.


I was just watching the "The Jury Speaks" videos on CBS, and in Josh's video he mentions that Jaclyn wants to get a surrogate. The googles tell me that her condition means she was born without a uterus, so I am guessing that they want to have at least one natural child. I am guessing that egg harvesting and fertilization and a surrogate are not cheap.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Not that he was wrong with his assessment.


Maybe maybe not. We've only seen a few hours out of 39 days, so we don't know everything about her. Not saying she wasn't who he said she was, but I'm saying we only know her "TV, edited" persona.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

And that speech matched her edited TV persona, IMO.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Seemed wrong in every respect to me. So the just treatment of a person that's annoying on Survivor is a mean spirited 5 minute public shaming on National TV? I didn't think Missy played that well, I didn't think she deserved a single vote at the end. But I also didn't think she deserved what Reed did. That was just cruel. And for what? Being annoying? Saying something when her daughter was called a brat? That was a proportional response? These people are hungry and tired and emotional while playing the game, they all get annoying sometimes. So Reed, while getting to sleep, eat and shower, comes up with an elaborate attack on another player, who was probably no worse than several other players, makes it deeply personal and performs it for his own self-aggrandizement on TV so he can have a speech that people talk about. And then, when he has the chance to be a human being and apologize, he doubles down on his ass-hattery. If Reed wants to be a role model, he's got some work to do, because he came off like a self important jerk.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I respect people who stand behind what they say....regardless if I agree with it or not.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

There's no reason to respect someone who demonstrates such utter lack of respect. Takes a bit more to earn respect than never admitting you're wrong even if you were being a petulant a-hole.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I respect people who stand behind what they say....regardless if I agree with it or not.


I can also respect when people make a mistake and admit they might have been too harsh. Obviously either Reed didn't feel that way, or it was best for his "game" to stand by it so people like us will continue to talk about it.

What I don't respect is people who come off as self important jerks who think they are better than someone else, while playing a GAME!!


----------



## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

The only thing I really can't stand at the final TC when someone from the jury gives the "at least I played with integrity" speech. I don't think we really had that here. I guess Keith's "why was the last thing you said to me a lie" line is close though, since he implies that he never lied.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

hefe said:


> Seemed wrong in every respect to me. So the just treatment of a person that's annoying on Survivor is a mean spirited 5 minute public shaming on National TV? I didn't think Missy played that well, I didn't think she deserved a single vote at the end. But I also didn't think she deserved what Reed did. That was just cruel. And for what? Being annoying? Saying something when her daughter was called a brat? That was a proportional response? These people are hungry and tired and emotional while playing the game, they all get annoying sometimes. So Reed, while getting to sleep, eat and shower, comes up with an elaborate attack on another player, who was probably no worse than several other players, makes it deeply personal and performs it for his own self-aggrandizement on TV so he can have a speech that people talk about. And then, when he has the chance to be a human being and apologize, he doubles down on his ass-hattery. If Reed wants to be a role model, he's got some work to do, because he came off like a self important jerk.


Setting aside the fact that it was rude or cruel or a public shaming, did you disagree with any of the content of his speech? Based on what we saw and what other players have said in exit interviews, I think the content of his speech was pretty spot on, although I can admit that it wasn't delivered in the most compassionate manner.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I can't set that aside. It's kind of the whole point. I don't recall each point of fact right now, so I'd have to go back and (yuck) watch the performance again. It wasn't that the speech lacked compassion, like it was just a bit off tone, it was the polar opposite in that it was the actual intention to destroy another person publicly for self-inflation. I have no doubt that had Missy not made the final 3, someone else would have been on the receiving end of Reed's one man show.


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

hefe said:


> Seemed wrong in every respect to me. So the just treatment of a person that's annoying on Survivor is a mean spirited 5 minute public shaming on National TV? I didn't think Missy played that well, I didn't think she deserved a single vote at the end. But I also didn't think she deserved what Reed did. That was just cruel. And for what? Being annoying? Saying something when her daughter was called a brat? That was a proportional response? These people are hungry and tired and emotional while playing the game, they all get annoying sometimes. So Reed, while getting to sleep, eat and shower, comes up with an elaborate attack on another player, who was probably no worse than several other players, makes it deeply personal and performs it for his own self-aggrandizement on TV so he can have a speech that people talk about. And then, when he has the chance to be a human being and apologize, he doubles down on his ass-hattery. If Reed wants to be a role model, he's got some work to do, because he came off like a self important jerk.


My sentiments exactly.

Here's the transcript from Dalton's recap.

"Missy, you cast yourself as the motherly figure. However, fans of classic literary fiction will see through very quickly to who your true character was, which isthe wicked stepmother, really, of the tribe. Its the eccentric woman who comes in and makes demands on everyone for the things to which she feels so entitled. She spoils her children by perhaps giving them more rice at dinner and the best places to sleep at night in the shelter. She takes things shes either not entitled to or didnt earn herself, which was always evidenced by the fact that you got more gimmes in this game than anyone, and performed the worst out of anyone at challenges. Lastly, you made the quintessential wicked stepmother move by abusing the help, which in this case was the minority alliances in the game. You always made sure they felt inferior. You always kept them in their place. You always made it imminently clear that they werent coming to the ball that is the Tribal Council this evening here with you. So that, to me, feels like your fatal flaw in your whole plan, because unlike life, in the game of Survivor, the outcasts are the ones who get the final say. So in a sweeping moment of poetic justice, the people to which you were so rude and terrible to before relegating them to the jury with the help of your alliance are going to decide your fate this evening. This is why I love fairy tales, because they always have a happy ending and the wicked stepmother never wins.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> Maybe maybe not. We've only seen a few hours out of 39 days, so we don't know everything about her. Not saying she wasn't who he said she was, but I'm saying we only know her "TV, edited" persona.





Steveknj said:


> I can also respect when people make a mistake and admit they might have been too harsh. Obviously either Reed didn't feel that way, or it was best for his "game" to stand by it so people like us will continue to talk about it.


another possibility, she could have been much worse than any of us know. following his refusal to retract his monologue or apologize, my suspicions drifted towards the edit, too - wondering what happened off camera was particularly offensive to reed, and if missy continually received a favorable edit to hide inflammatory behavior from prime time network viewers.

once he was given an opportunity to make his opinions known, he took it, heels dug in, measured words, no regrets. i'm wondering what really happened.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

hefe said:


> Seemed wrong in every respect to me. So the just treatment of a person that's annoying on Survivor is a mean spirited 5 minute public shaming on National TV? I didn't think Missy played that well, I didn't think she deserved a single vote at the end. But I also didn't think she deserved what Reed did. That was just cruel. And for what? Being annoying? Saying something when her daughter was called a brat? That was a proportional response? These people are hungry and tired and emotional while playing the game, they all get annoying sometimes. So Reed, while getting to sleep, eat and shower, comes up with an elaborate attack on another player, who was probably no worse than several other players, makes it deeply personal and performs it for his own self-aggrandizement on TV so he can have a speech that people talk about. And then, when he has the chance to be a human being and apologize, he doubles down on his ass-hattery. If Reed wants to be a role model, he's got some work to do, because he came off like a self important jerk.


This. :up:


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> I can't set that aside. It's kind of the whole point. I don't recall each point of fact right now, so I'd have to go back and (yuck) watch the performance again. It wasn't that the speech lacked compassion, like it was just a bit off tone, it was the polar opposite in that it was the actual intention to destroy another person publicly for self-inflation. I have no doubt that had Missy not made the final 3, someone else would have been on the receiving end of Reed's one man show.


Really it was nothing more than character assassination and had nothing to do with the game, since I doubt Missy had a chance to win no matter what. This was just a "show" put on by him. Either he was being an incredibly whiny jerk, or he was looking to make an impact so people like us would talk about him after (and perhaps make the B league talk circuit after.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

kettledrum said:


> My sentiments exactly.
> 
> Here's the transcript from Dalton's recap.
> 
> "Missy, you cast yourself as the motherly figure. However, fans of classic literary fiction will see through very quickly to who your true character was, which isthe wicked stepmother, really, of the tribe. Its the eccentric woman who comes in and makes demands on everyone for the things to which she feels so entitled. She spoils her children by perhaps giving them more rice at dinner and the best places to sleep at night in the shelter. She takes things shes either not entitled to or didnt earn herself, which was always evidenced by the fact that you got more gimmes in this game than anyone, and performed the worst out of anyone at challenges. Lastly, you made the quintessential wicked stepmother move by abusing the help, which in this case was the minority alliances in the game. You always made sure they felt inferior. You always kept them in their place. You always made it imminently clear that they werent coming to the ball that is the Tribal Council this evening here with you. So that, to me, feels like your fatal flaw in your whole plan, because unlike life, in the game of Survivor, the outcasts are the ones who get the final say. So in a sweeping moment of poetic justice, the people to which you were so rude and terrible to before relegating them to the jury with the help of your alliance are going to decide your fate this evening. This is why I love fairy tales, because they always have a happy ending and the wicked stepmother never wins.


So planned and rehearsed. I bet he was still in the game when he thought about doing that.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> another possibility, she could have been much worse than any of us know. following his refusal to retract his monologue or apologize, my suspicions drifted towards the edit, too - wondering what happened off camera was particularly offensive to reed, and if missy continually received a favorable edit to hide inflammatory behavior from prime time network viewers.
> 
> once he was given an opportunity to make his opinions known, he took it, heels dug in, measured words, no regrets. i'm wondering what really happened.


Of course, that's another possibility. And of course, he added nothing to the game by saying what he said, other to show he's as petty as she might have been. A completely childish reaction.

I still stand by my early statement that he planned to make a dramatic speech from day one if he didn't make the finals.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Interesting comment from Natalie afterwards.

"I was sitting there and me and Jaclyn were looking at each other like, this is so awkward. I&#8217;m trying to win the million bucks, so I couldn&#8217;t be my usual self and cuss him out. I thought it was unnecessary. But the things he was saying to Missy were the things him and Josh were guilty of. They&#8217;d save each other rice. I was over it."


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Maybe maybe not. We've only seen a few hours out of 39 days, so we don't know everything about her. Not saying she wasn't who he said she was, but I'm saying we only know her "TV, edited" persona.


But his assessment was made on the time he spent with her, he hadn't seen the "TV edit".


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

JFriday said:


> But his assessment was made on the time he spent with her, he hadn't seen the "TV edit".


No, but the season was edited with the knowledge of his speech. I would think that if she was that bad, they would've wanted to show it. The season needed a good villain. She was slightly unpleasant, but not to the degree that required that speech.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

realityboy said:


> No, but the season was edited with the knowledge of his speech. I would think that if she was that bad, they would've wanted to show it. The season needed a good villain. She was slightly unpleasant, but not to the degree that required that speech.


Agree, and he was at least as "bad" as she was, attitude and personality wise.

Publicity stunt was all it was.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

what i saw of missy this season was enough to merit reed's monologue, and baylor didn't fall far from the tree. reed never came across as a player that would lash out for nothing, the reason for my suspicions. it was either a game move, or petty revenge, either way his comments were on point.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> what i saw of missy this season was enough to merit reed's monologue, and baylor didn't fall far from the tree. reed never came across as a player that would lash out for nothing, the reason for my suspicions. it was either a game move, or petty revenge, either way his comments were on point.


Totally agree.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> what i saw of missy this season was enough to merit reed's monologue...


I'm still wondering what those things might be...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

hefe said:


> I'm still wondering what those things might be...


that being the case, no amount of explaining will alter your perception...


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

realityboy said:


> No, but the season was edited with the knowledge of his speech. I would think that if she was that bad, they would've wanted to show it. The season needed a good villain. She was slightly unpleasant, but not to the degree that required that speech.


So they made Missy act like a greedy pig with the food? They made her be over protective mama bear and treat everyone else like crap? I'm glad they were able to do that so she fit his speech. It's also telling that pretty much no one liked her. Even people outside of Reeds alliance said they could have good conversation with him during the game.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> that being the case, no amount of explaining will alter your perception...


My perception is that I agree that Missy could be annoying. Baylor too.

My feeling is additionally that she is/was no worse than a multitude of players that have played this game in this and other seasons, and that even if she was, the personal targeted attack was unwarranted, and came from a selfish, spotlight seeking person that doesn't care about hurting people and can easily rationalize it because it was in their own narcissistic self-interest. My amazement is that people agree with and take delight in the calculated mistreatment of another person and are improperly identifying who is the real "bad guy" in that situation. I just find it sad that people are ok with intentionally hurting someone just because they are annoying. (Even if it wasn't in an extreme situation where emotions and conflict are heightened by deprivation)


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

because missy and balor's bad behavior was no worse than previous players, this shields them from another player calling attention to them, when given an opportunity in the game? 

his comments were truthful from his perspective (and mine, others, possibly yours), it's how he decided to play the game, and his behavior was no worse than previous players, either. why would your rationale excuse missy & baylor, and not reed?

i'm still not completely convinced it had to do with narcissism, or self-interest.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

JFriday said:


> So they made Missy act like a greedy pig with the food? They made her be over protective mama bear and treat everyone else like crap? I'm glad they were able to do that so she fit his speech. It's also telling that pretty much no one liked her. Even people outside of Reeds alliance said they could have good conversation with him during the game.


Huh? I'm not saying she got a bad edit. I'm saying if she was so horrible her edit should have been worse so that it did fit the speech better. It would've made for a more entertaining season to have a bigger villain. She was just annoying and not particularly self aware.

Edit: Reed's speech was entertaining if cruel, but his vote for Jaclyn was just petty. Also since people are still talking about it, I guess he ensured his spot on s future season instead of Josh.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> i'm still not completely convinced it had to do with narcissism, or self-interest.


Oh, please. He was making the most of his spotlight. He's a performer. It was all about creating a viral moment. He's a "Survivor Superfan." He may have a deficit of human compassion, but he's not stupid. I don't know why people would be so quick to believe one person's behavior is so despicable, and applaud the other for an act of intentional meanness.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

hefe said:


> I don't know why people would be so quick to believe one person's behavior is so despicable, and applaud the other for an act of intentional meanness.


LOL. Exactly!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> My perception is that I agree that Missy could be annoying. Baylor too.
> 
> My feeling is additionally that she is/was no worse than a multitude of players that have played this game in this and other seasons, and that even if she was, the personal targeted attack was unwarranted, and came from a selfish, spotlight seeking person that doesn't care about hurting people and can easily rationalize it because it was in their own narcissistic self-interest. My amazement is that people agree with and take delight in the calculated mistreatment of another person and are improperly identifying who is the real "bad guy" in that situation. I just find it sad that people are ok with intentionally hurting someone just because they are annoying. (Even if it wasn't in an extreme situation where emotions and conflict are heightened by deprivation)


This. I also think, while he might have honestly felt that way about her, it was uncalled for and meaningless to anyone but himself. I'm sure he had some idea how the jury was going to vote by the time he made his speech and either way Missy wasn't going to win. If his intent was to make sure she loses, then it didn't matter. If his intent was to be spiteful, then he comes off as what you described. Was it necessary to call her out in front of everyone and millions at home? No. It really had little to do with the game. He wanted to do his own Rat/Snake speech. At least that was was rationalizing why Sue was going to vote for one or the other of the finalists. This was just mean and vindictive.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> because missy and balor's bad behavior was no worse than previous players, this shields them from another player calling attention to them, when given an opportunity in the game?


He had all game, until he was voted out to voice his feelings about her, and did occasionally. Why did he choose that moment? Only one reason I could think of.



> his comments were truthful from his perspective (and mine, others, possibly yours), *it's how he decided to play the game*, and his behavior was no worse than previous players, either. why would your rationale excuse missy & baylor, and not reed?
> 
> i'm still not completely convinced it had to do with narcissism, or self-interest.


His game was over at that point and the jury had probably already decided. having spent quite a bit of time at Ponderosa, I would think, by that point he'd have figured out Missy had no chance to win.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

realityboy said:


> Huh? I'm not saying she got a bad edit. I'm saying if she was so horrible her edit should have been worse so that it did fit the speech better. It would've made for a more entertaining season to have a bigger villain. She was just annoying and not particularly self aware.
> 
> Edit: Reed's speech was entertaining if cruel, but his vote for Jaclyn was just petty. *Also since people are still talking about it, I guess he ensured his spot on s future season instead of Josh*.


This, and that's an angle I hadn't even thought about. He's angling for another shot. All the more reason for what I think about his speech.


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## SlammedNiss (Sep 24, 2012)

laria said:


> I don't know, Reed looked pretty hot at the reunion... the other guy is a lucky guy.


I personally thought Jaclyn was looking pretty good in that yellow dress. Her fiance really hit a home run with her.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Jaclyn is very pretty but makeup changes her whole face. I didn't think she looked bad at the reunion... she just looked completely different.


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## Jayjoans (Jan 23, 2003)

I'm late, just watched it last night. Red pants are not Baylor's friend. That is all.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

I think it just shows that she is not rail thin as our modern society wants young women to be.


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