# My boxes are both suddenly bad, they say?



## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

Long time reader here with a question. 

The last few days I've had lousy reception in both my living room (10-250) and bedroom (old tivo dvr, no HD). By that I mean, pixelly screen and audio lags -- BIG audio lags, like unwatchable TV .
It's been kinda windy and I think something's been jarred loose, but went up to the roof today to check and it all seems ok. 

My wife got so fed up she called the d-tv folks and they said our boxes are probably bad and so they scheduled a repair appt ($80) for next week to "replace" them. Both boxes of diff formats? At the same time? Dying the same deaths? I've been mr. conspiracy theory about them trying to force folks off TiVo for awhile now (anyone else notice how CRAPPY the Sunday Ticket SD programming looked this year, wink-wink?), and this just fuels my fire.

I've been reluctant to part with TiVo but have been wavering lately. Now might be the time for me to jump, but my question to all of you is:

-- Do i play dumb to what seems to me is total bunk, pay the $80 and hope i get two new HD boxes out of this with no further hassle, maybe not even a new commitment?

-- Or is this a pipe dream? I should call and cancel this ridiculous appointment and talk to retention about getting the deal people on here are getting?

Thanks in advance for any/all help.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

gtonthebus said:


> Long time reader here with a question.
> 
> The last few days I've had lousy reception in both my living room (10-250) and bedroom (old tivo dvr, no HD). By that I mean, pixelly screen and audio lags -- BIG audio lags, like unwatchable TV .
> It's been kinda windy and I think something's been jarred loose, but went up to the roof today to check and it all seems ok.
> ...


This is CLEARLY a pipe dream. First off, yes. DirecTV is trying to sell their DVR's. Screw TiVo. DirecTV's DVR's are better. Yeah, right. NOT!!!

Next. Don't play dumb. If you haven't figured it out yet, DirecTV WILL nickel and dime you to death. Tell you things that are untrue. They lie often. If you do get their HR20/21 DVR's, whether you get one or many, you will get a commitment automatically of two years. DirecTV is in the contract business. With the TiVos on DirecTV's side, you could get out of the contracts. With the new DirecTV DVR's, you can't. They won't allow it. Ever wonder why? Because their DVR's are flawed. Bad programming. If you were to get the commitment waived and two months later you decide the DVR is a POS, you would either cancel service or reactivate the TiVo's. I tend to go with cancel here. That's why there's an automatic commitment charge. And don't tell me it's the price of getting them at a lower price or something. The same effects are true during the TiVo days. I got three out of four TiVo's WITHOUT a contract. They said "No way" for the HR20 I got and I regret that decision to this day. There are no tryout time or nothing. You activate it and it's yours for two years. Well, how about trying it BEFORE you activate it? Nope. Won't work without the card in place. Did I mention that once you remove the access card from the bag that it comes in you are saying you agree to the terms of a two year contract? Wow. This is one company that likes to screw you!


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## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

Scott - sort of a conspiracy and angry laden rant. The DVR's are not POS as they have been improved dramatically and many of us like them equally if not better than TIVO. That aside, the CSR also wants to quickly resolve a call and move on to the next; that is how they get graded. So, no one is lying here just probably misdiagnosed. I contend from the description that the issue is in the dish which is where GBUS should have the service guy focus. Probably even worth a call back and talk to a different CSR. Fred


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

gtonthebus said:


> ...I've been reluctant to part with TiVo but have been wavering lately. Now might be the time for me to jump, but my question to all of you is:
> 
> -- Do i play dumb to what seems to me is total bunk, pay the $80 and hope i get two new HD boxes out of this with no further hassle, maybe not even a new commitment?
> 
> ...


Hiding is almost never the right answer.

Use the Ordering Tips links to see exactly what is in your order. Use the number to call them if you have any quesitons.

In particular, do you really want an SD anything at this point? The HD upgrade should be cheap.

Second, there is a lot that you can do to make sure that you have a great installation. Most importantly, make sure you are there. Some of these tips are the same things to consider when any contractor is coming to your home:

Installation Guide

Here are a couple more links from the HD DVR FAQ.

_What will I be asked to sign once the installation is complete?_
→ Installation Checklist ● Agreement

_Is there an easy way to get started?_
→ 5-Minute Quick Start ● *Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks*

_What can help me transition from TiVo? How do I get Suggestions?_
→ TiVo Users Survival Guide ● Better Suggestions than TiVo!

Good Luck!

- Craig


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

fjwagner said:


> Scott - sort of a conspiracy and angry laden rant. The DVR's are not POS as they have been improved dramatically and many of us like them equally if not better than TIVO. That aside, the CSR also wants to quickly resolve a call and move on to the next; that is how they get graded. So, no one is lying here just probably misdiagnosed. I contend from the description that the issue is in the dish which is where GBUS should have the service guy focus. Probably even worth a call back and talk to a different CSR. Fred


No, not really. Just speaking my mind and warning other people to exactly what DirecTV will do to others as they have done to me. They cheated me a multitude of times.

You don't seriously expect me to give them praise, do you?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Whose fault is it if they cheated you a *number *of times ???


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> Whose fault is it if they cheated you a *number *of times ???


You just wait until they cross the line with you. Then what. As for me, I speak my own mind and there's nothing you can do or say to change it.

You go have yourself a great day with DTV!


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

WTF are they charing you $80 for? Just tell them you can switch to Dish Network for free! So if they'd like you keep you as a customer then they can cover the cost.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

STL said:


> WTF are they charing you $80 for? Just tell them you can switch to Dish Network for free! So if they'd like you keep you as a customer then they can cover the cost.


DTV won't do that. So I guess I would move on to another company that will do it for free.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

STL said:


> WTF are they charing you $80 for? Just tell them you can switch to Dish Network for free! So if they'd like you keep you as a customer then they can cover the cost.


the service call. they usually charge this when they feel the problem has something to do with the things at YOUR end, though.


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

Thanks to all.
UPDATE: After another day of crappy reception, I lost ALL reception on BOTH receivers (searcing for sat. 1 and 2), at which point I knew Dtv was wrong and it wasnt magically the boxes. I called back and played Mr. Upset and basically got them to cancel the $80 visit and set me up with an "upgrade" visit for free once they conceded that the last CSR gave me an incorrect assessment of my situation.
So they come in 10 days to hook me up with that. Bye-bye TiVo. Sniff.
In the interim, I am stuck with a rabbit ear, star trek-looking HD indoor receiver (which is terrible) and six stations (and no pause or rewind! aargh!!). 
I must say though, PBS looks great!
I'll be sure to be milking the programming credits for the inconvenience of this when the time comes!
Thanks again.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

gtonthebus said:


> Thanks to all.
> UPDATE: After another day of crappy reception, I lost ALL reception on BOTH receivers (searcing for sat. 1 and 2), at which point I knew Dtv was wrong and it wasnt magically the boxes. I called back and played Mr. Upset and basically got them to cancel the $80 visit and set me up with an "upgrade" visit for free once they conceded that the last CSR gave me an incorrect assessment of my situation.
> So they come in 10 days to hook me up with that. Bye-bye TiVo. Sniff.
> In the interim, I am stuck with a rabbit ear, star trek-looking HD indoor receiver (which is terrible) and six stations (and no pause or rewind! aargh!!).
> ...


Might want to use the "milking the programming credits" method with caution

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=115768


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

shame on all of you for not asking him to check signal strengths  ....i assume this is a legit post and he lost all signal so that's the 1st thing you always should check then go from there.

no idea why things have to go into a us vs them thing with dtv and the new boxes.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

newsposter said:


> shame on all of you for not asking him to check signal strengths  ....i assume this is a legit post and he lost all signal so that's the 1st thing you always should check then go from there.
> 
> no idea why things have to go into a us vs them thing with dtv and the new boxes.


the tone started on the first two posts which had zero comments about the Us vs them mentality


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## ChromeRider (Jan 13, 2008)

I have been with Direct TV since you could use Microsoft Ultimate TV and have not paid a home charge since the first install. I have had them to my house numerous time to align the dish after a wind storm and still have not paid. If they tell me there will be a charge I say forget the home visit and cancel my account. What do you know suddenly they can do it for no charge.

My feeling is if I am paying for a service it is the service providers obligation to make sure my service is working correctly and if they don't want to accept that part of the business, I'll switch to one who will.

Also there is no comparison between the TIVO products and the POS they are offering now. I have two HDDVR's one TIVO and one of NDS Group's POS. As a test for anyone who has used these products. Hit pause on the program you are watching and switch tuners and hit pause on it, oh wait you can't do that on the NDS Group's POS. This thing is so bad I'm considering dumping Direct TV and going back to cable after more then 7 years.


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

sjberra said:


> the tone started on the first two posts which had zero comments about the Us vs them mentality


Hmmm. You must have read a different thread than I did. The very first response had a D* bashing tone that's kind of hard to miss -- even for someone as obtuse as me. For newsposter -- Well I started to post that he ought to check signal but I thought I should read the whole thread first -- oh well, if the OP is still out there he ought to check signal. His first instinct sounded pretty good to me.


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

check signal meter was as zero as zero could be! everywhere...on all transponders, all signals, all receivers, all everything. the CSR seemed embarassed by the previous CSR's mishandling of the diagnosis.
thanks for asking!


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

and yes, i too was quite surprised that my post led to a number of "us vs. them" comments that weren't really about my problem


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

tucsonbill said:


> The very first response had a D* bashing tone that's kind of hard to miss -- even for someone as obtuse as me.


how does your weight have any bearing on this at all?


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## Hash (Apr 7, 2006)

tucsonbill said:


> The very first response had a D* bashing tone that's kind of hard to miss -- even for someone as obtuse as me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*SUCH* a grasp of the English language. Please see Number 2 for _Obtuse_...

This is in contrast to _Obese_.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

Hash said:


> *SUCH* a grasp of the English language. Please see Number 2 for _Obtuse_...
> 
> This is in contrast to _Obese_.


gee, i dunno how i ever coulda made such a mistake. thanks for catching it though.


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## Hash (Apr 7, 2006)

rickmeoff said:


> gee, i dunno how i ever coulda made such a mistake. thanks for catching it though.


I dunno, either...
Perhaps you should have found the appropriate smiley earlier.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

Hash said:


> I dunno, either...
> Perhaps you should have found the appropriate smiley earlier.


perhaps cut down on the red bull, and switch to decaf. sheesh.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

To answer the original question(s)... No, you will not get an HD DVR. You'll get an R15 -- and very likely a referbished one at that. Your problem is most likely an issue with the dish alignment. Possible causes: dish alignment, bad LNB, bad multiswitch, bad cable and/or connector(s), bad receiver. In. That. Order. The odds of the receiver "going bad" without _something else_ contributing to it are VERY low.

When they plug in the R15, it'll look like that simply fixed it. The R15 is much newer with a far more sensitive receiver. This is exactly what the lazy f***s did at my parents house. The idiot didn't bother to even _look_ for the actual problem -- a bad DTV multiswitch. Why did it fail? Because the lazy, cheap idiot who replaced the triple LNB dish I originally installed -- a 150$ setup at the time -- _*ungrounded*_ the entire installation, including the antenna ground. [replaced with a single LNB dish -- a $19 dish.] (which is a violation of National Electric Code, btw.)

Also note, checking signal *strength* requires special hardware: a signal meter. The receivers beeping screen reports signal _quality_, which is simply how many error-free frames it's seeing. You can have an exceptionally low signal but still have sufficient quality.


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## Hash (Apr 7, 2006)

cramer said:


> Also note, checking signal *strength* requires special hardware: a signal meter. The receivers beeping screen reports signal _quality_, which is simply how many error-free frames it's seeing. You can have an exceptionally low signal but still have sufficient quality.


Cramer is quite correct on this point. However, the signal strength screen is perfectly OK to check older receivers/service that are Ku only. It does not quite cut it for the newer 5 LNB dishes with the Ka band. To accurately align/check these you do need the signal strength meter. However, (un)fortunately you are not there yet.


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

typical. appointment day came and went. nobody came. i went nuts on the phone to the installers -- "halsted communications" -- and they spoke to me like robots do (one guy and then his supervisor). they insisted i could not get another appt. til FEB 5!!! i've been without TV for 2 weeks and they wnat me to wait ANOTHER 2 weeks because their guy couldn't get there in time. i called them unprofessional and threatened to call DTV, the BBB and the local councilmember to tell them all how terribly I was treated. then i hung up on them in disgust. 

I called DTV and they told me Feb 5 was the first day they saw avail too. But they promised to "wait list" me for cancellations.

After calming down a bit, i just went on the DTV website, hit 'resked" on a lark, and boom -- every day from now until Feb 5 is available. 
I don't even know what to say anymore. This time I opted for a morning appt even though I work nights and will have to wake up early for it. Godforbid someone do their job right so I can get some sleep and not stay home all day.

Anyway, just needed to vent


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## barry728 (Apr 14, 2003)

My HR10-250 went bad also while I was away for a month. When I got home the video processor that was running between the HR10-250 and my tv said there was no signal. The screen was black but I had audio. Tried skipping the video processor and the same thing. I called DTV and did the unplugging procedure but after seeing the "almost there" picture the screen went black again. I wasn't going to upgrade because I liked tivo and hated DTV's previous offers but when the HR10-250 went bad and they told me I could get a new box for free and no commitment I decided it was my best choice now. They are scheduled to come tomorrow morning. We'll see. 

Does this add to the conspiracy theory?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i personally dont see the conspiracy..2 stacked hdtivos working 'fine' since the day i got them


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

barry728 said:


> Does this add to the conspiracy theory?


If they're willing to replace an owned box with an owned box, then I see no problem with it -- other than it not being a tivo, but with no contract, if you don't like the non-tivo, you're not stuck with it.

You didn't say, but I'm guessing you're using HDMI? Sounds like your HDMI board is bad -- they do that. Have you tried the component out? What about switching to 480i and using the non-HD outputs?


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## barry728 (Apr 14, 2003)

cramer said:


> If they're willing to replace an owned box with an owned box, then I see no problem with it -- other than it not being a tivo, but with no contract, if you don't like the non-tivo, you're not stuck with it.
> 
> You didn't say, but I'm guessing you're using HDMI? Sounds like your HDMI board is bad -- they do that. Have you tried the component out? What about switching to 480i and using the non-HD outputs?


You're right, the HDMI cable went bad somehow but the HDMI board is OK. 
Everything is back to normal which is good since the installer said he could not install the new dish at my place. Thanks for your input.


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

OK, I'm about to jump off a cliff...more accurately I'm about to call DTV and tell them to stick their KaKu up their wazoo. They finally came Friday, fixed it, and then the SAME THING started happening AGAIN with the new HR21. Hours later it was "searching for sat in 1 and 2."
I make another appointment. They come today. They "fix" it again. I come home from work tonight, turn on the tube...."searching for satellite."
I've had it.
Can someone tell me what's going on? The installer dude(s) have given me excuses ranging from "your wires are too long and HD doesnt like long wiring" to "the elevated trains (on the next block) are knocking the dish/wires loose by the end of the day." I give up. These are obviously BS excuses. My DTV service has been perfect for 8 months in this apartment. And EVERY bulding around here has 37 dishes on them...I'm sure they all aren't "knocked loose" by the end of the day.
They are trying to tell me that all of a sudden everything is going wrong at once with BOTH of my receivers? ONe of which is four days old?
HELLLLLLLPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can a dish go bad? Is there anything else anyone can think of for me to ask/tell the next dimwit DTV CSR i speak to? The next Halsted installer that comes here, moves the dish a half an inch and gets me a picture for 5 minutes? Is there anyone higher up (in corporate) that I can email to get a REAL response?

Sorry, I needed to vent...AGAIN!
But my wife and I really are ready to call and cancel service.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

have you used the meter to check all your signals yourself? It's a long and tedious process but may help narrow things down. I'm not an expert but i have heard if they did not use new wires or you dont have RG6 there can be issues. The train excuse is funny...not.

were you serious about only having a pic for 5 minutes? if so, i'd keep the installer there while it goes out again. If you were just joking...then i dont know what to say except check your signals


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

yes. and when i have signal, they rock the 90s. when its giving me problems, i get zeros.
another question i have is, when i spoke to a CSR, he asked if my multiswitch on the roof near the dish was powered on (green light). one problem -- i dont have a multiswitch. do i need one? didnt think i did anymore with the 5lnb dish. i have four wires out, four in (2br, 2lr).


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

gtonthebus said:


> yes. and when i have signal, they rock the 90s. when its giving me problems, i get zeros.
> another question i have is, when i spoke to a CSR, he asked if my multiswitch on the roof near the dish was powered on (green light). one problem -- i dont have a multiswitch. do i need one? didnt think i did anymore with the 5lnb dish. i have four wires out, four in (2br, 2lr).


ok if you have zeros that is 'good' from the perspective that you know you have a problem. yes i know that sounds weird and obvious  There is a M/S in the dish and if you only need 4 wires (ie 2 dvrs) you do not need the M/S at all. The 4 wires go right to the 2 dvrs.

Now that we ruled out M/S issues, I guess it has to be the dish out of alignment, the lnbs or wiring or the dvrs. But if you checked signals on both dvrs, and they are zero, then it's very unlikely to be the units themselves. So you are left with the other 3 issues.

are the zeros on all birds when there is an issue or just some? This really sounds like an aiming problem or loose dish. I guess it's possible moisture in a connector could cause it too. But once a connection dried out, you would have a good connection until the next rain/snow/overnight etc.

I forget and didnt re read your posts but did they ever do a reaim for you?


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

Go get one of these. You'll need one of the more expensive digital meters to test 99 and 103. But the $18 meter will work just fine to tell if the dish isn't staying aligned or something is blocking it.


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

thanks for the advice. let me tell me where i am with the re-aim issue. 
the day before my last installer visit i went up to the roof and saw that the dish was not aimed according to the "position angles" listed for my zip code during the receiver set up. it asked for like 35 up.down and 62 tilt (cant check azimuth myself without a compass i guess, which i dont have). my dish was aligned at 20 u/d and 55 tilt. so i changed to to 35/62. nothing. i put back the tilt to 20 and left the 62. BAM, all of sudden i went back into the apartment and heard BEEEEEEEEEEEEP, meaning full signals on all birds. great! i watched tv all day to make sure and it was fine. i left for work. my wife came home, and called me and said, "its doing it again."
so i dont understand how im LOSING signal on both rec'rs after a few hours every time me or an installer (he did same thing next day when he came) fix the dish. that is why i think its bad. 
is that handheld signal checker avail in any stores where i can just go buy it right now? cause if i have to order it, prob not worth it.
if i tell dtv i want a new dish, do they have to give me one? at this point 3 of their people have failed to diagnose my problem, does that give me any clout?
thanks again


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

ha! i dont need to tell ME where i am on this...i meant "tell you" in that first line, obv!


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

my cabling is TFC-T10 6 series 18awg. that sound about right to anyone? or did red flags just go up?


as of right now the only sat i have ANY signal on is 25-whatever on the 119. all others are zero or N/A. and it could not be a clearer, sunnier day here in NYC...even though im sure the CSR i speak to next will tell me weather could be an issue


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## gtonthebus (Jul 3, 2007)

the specs im finding on that wire say "sweep tested up to 1ghz" ... that's low right? shouldnt it be up above 2 and usually up to 3?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i cant help with aiming issue or wiring...not when it gets this specific. I'm just a general guy  Hope someone else has a suggestion


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

gtonthebus said:


> my cabling is TFC-T10 6 series 18awg. that sound about right to anyone? or did red flags just go up?
> 
> as of right now the only sat i have ANY signal on is 25-whatever on the 119. all others are zero or N/A. and it could not be a clearer, sunnier day here in NYC...even though im sure the CSR i speak to next will tell me weather could be an issue


I have the same RG6 cable running from my 3LNB dish to my multiswitch. It is only rated at 1 Ghz which is not good enough for the 5 LNB dish which requires a solid coper wire center cable rated up to 2.5 Ghz.
I intend to have them replace the RG6 cable from the dish when they install the new 5 LNB dish in a couple of weeks.
Go to this site:

http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp
and watch part 4 for more info.


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