# Premiere 4TB DIY



## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

Can I use JMFS to Copy/Expand/Supersize my stock 2TB Premiere XL4 drive to a new larger 4TB drive (WD AV-GP WD40EURX), or *is there some sort of 3TB limit for DIY upgrades* (despite Weaknees selling their own 4TB single-drive upgrade)?

Note that Premiere XL4 is running OS 20.3.8.


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## flashedbios (Dec 7, 2012)

sophosoft said:


> Can I use JMFS to Copy/Expand/Supersize my stock 2TB Premiere XL4 drive to a new larger 4TB drive (WD AV-GP WD40EURX), or *is there some sort of 3TB limit for DIY upgrades* (despite Weaknees selling their own 4TB single-drive upgrade)?
> 
> Note that Premiere XL4 is running OS 20.3.8.


It's actually a 2.2TB Limit, and its because the TiVo Premiere units use the MBR partitioning format to boot from the drive. The new Roamio's boot from flash and the hard drive is simply an extra storage device and therefore can be a 4TB unit.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

flashedbios said:


> It's actually a 2.2TB Limit, and its because the TiVo Premiere units use the MBR partitioning format to boot from the drive. The new Roamio's boot from flash and the hard drive is simply an extra storage device and therefore can be a 4TB unit.


There has been at least one instance of a successful DIY installation of a 3TB drive in a Premiere. And weaKnees offers a 4TB _*single drive*_ upgrade.

Weaknees is also offering a 4TB single drive Roamio upgrade.

It has nothing whatever to do with the boot device. The way the Roamio is set up means that you can install a blank drive in it and it will be formatted and used. No need to prepare it. But that only works for drives up to 3TB. A 4TB drive has to be prepared and so far weaKnees is the only source.


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## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

If there has been a *successful DIY installation of a 3TB drive in a Premiere*, does anyone know *how and with what software it was achieved* (and why the same process, if it breaks the normal 2.2TB MBR barrier, could not also be done with a 4TB drive)?

Many thanks for any and all info on 3TB and 4TB drive use in Premiere DIY upgrades (I have the 4TB drive in hand now and am anxious to hear of a way to proceed).


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

It should be possible. Details on how to do this will be forthcoming. It should work for an XL4 although it has been only tried on an expanded XL image. The base concept for expanding an already expanded 2TB XL image would be the same for expanding a native 2TB XL4 image. So I can't imagine why it would not work.

If you want to look at a couple of threads about this.
2TB to 4TB expansion - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=513785 
1TB to 3Tb expansion - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=512153


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

flashedbios said:


> It's actually a 2.2TB Limit, and its because the TiVo Premiere units use the MBR partitioning format to boot from the drive. The new Roamio's boot from flash and the hard drive is simply an extra storage device and therefore can be a 4TB unit.


I thought they used the Apple Partition Map (or a modified version of it) instead of the MBR scheme?


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

unitron said:


> I thought they used the Apple Partition Map (or a modified version of it) instead of the MBR scheme?


Correct.


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## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

If I use JMFS to copy my stock 2TB Premiere XL4 drive the new larger 4TB drive (WD AV-GP WD40EURX) I bought and have on hand (unopened), what happens? *Will the process:

A) Fail to copy? OR
B) Allow me to copy, but fail to expand (leaving me at the same 2TB capacity)? OR
C) Allow me to copy and expand, but be limited to a 2.9TB capacity (as I have seen mentioned somewhere)? OR
D) Allow to copy and expand (to either a 2.9TB capacity or the full 4 TB capacity), but fail to boot or run properly? OR
E) Fail in some other way?*

In other words, *wherein lie the true limitations and/or problems* with upgrading to a 4TB drive on a Premiere XL4 (with OS 20.3.8) and *would I currently be better off with a 3TB (WD AV-GP WD30EURS) drive* to at least get my Premiere XL4 to 2.9TB (or *did I see you can only upgrade to a 3TB drive from a 1TB source drive*)?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Option B. 

The only direct route is a 1TB image that can be copied and expanded to 3TB with JMFS. Any 2TB image at this point with current tools will need a multistep procedure. 

A proficient JAVA programmer should be able to modify JMFS source so that it can physically write to sectors beyond 2TB. That is currently the rub. 

I am not a proficient JAVA programmer and the current source unaltered compiles with an error that I have not been able to correct yet. If I do finally get passed that error, I will be able to fix JMFS. Even fixed, JMFS can only add a maximum 2TB partition to expand any VIRGIN TiVo image that has a 64bit MFS. If the image has been already expanded then a multistep procedure would be required.


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## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

Does anyone have a "virgin" DvrBARS 1TB image (truncated) for download that can be used in a Premiere XL4 to upgrade it to 3TB using JMFS? I'm guessing it would have had to come from a Premiere XL.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

sophosoft said:


> Does anyone have a "virgin" DvrBARS 1TB image (truncated) for download that can be used in a Premiere XL4 to upgrade it to 3TB using JMFS? I'm guessing it would have had to come from a Premiere XL.


An image from a Premiere XL is not going to work in an XL4.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

sophosoft said:


> Does anyone have a "virgin" DvrBARS 1TB image (truncated) for download that can be used in a Premiere XL4 to upgrade it to 3TB using JMFS? I'm guessing it would have had to come from a Premiere XL.


PM for a 748 (XL) image sent.

AFAIK it should work, but take that with a grain of salt. The entire Premiere line seems to be pretty forgiving about model numbers and images as long as it's a Series 4. I'm running my XL on an XL4 image right now, and there have been several other Frankensteined transplants both uphill and downhill.

Let us know how it goes either way.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ggieseke said:


> PM for a 748 (XL) image sent.
> 
> AFAIK it should work, but take that with a grain of salt. The entire Premiere line seems to be pretty forgiving about model numbers and images as long as it's a Series 4. I'm running my XL on an XL4 image right now, and there have been several other Frankensteined transplants both uphill and downhill.
> 
> Let us know how it goes either way.


I don't understand how that is working. XL is 2-tuners (really 6 - 2 analog, 2 OTA digital, 2 digital cable, any 2 active at the same time). The XL4 is 4 digital cable tuners.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

The Linux kernel has some plug and play capability that allows some variability. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

jmbach said:


> The Linux kernel has some plug and play capability that allows some variability.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


The linux kernal really has nothing to do with the ability of s/w designed to handle one tuner configuration working on a totally different configuration. I can maybe understand why the XL4 s/w would run on an XL, particularly if the XL is set up on digital cable. It could just treat the missing tuners as unavailable. I don't see any way that it would work in the other direction, unless TiVo changed things so that they are all running the exact same s/w. If so, it is a fairly recent change since previously people reported problems just trying to run Premiere s/w on a Premiere XL, much less a 4 or XL4.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Yes and no. If the kernel does not support the hardware, the software will not work. 
I will look again at the software, it has been a year since I have looked at it more in depth. I recall that it had references to different generations of TiVos

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

lpwcomp said:


> I don't understand how that is working. XL is 2-tuners (really 6 - 2 analog, 2 OTA digital, 2 digital cable, any 2 active at the same time). The XL4 is 4 digital cable tuners.


I haven't analyzed every version since the rollout, but overall the Linux kernels (and more importantly the TiVo executables) have been the same between different models running the same version of the OS. Obviously there are some differences in the logs and config files but it doesn't seem to matter in my experience.

I think they went with a "one size fits all" approach on the S4s, other than minor stuff like leaving the THX calibration video off of non-XL models.

All I know for sure from my own experience is that my XL is happy as a clam running on a 2TB XL4 image. It's configured for OTA, which rules out any cable vs whatever tuner issues.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ggieseke said:


> I haven't analyzed every version since the rollout, but overall the Linux kernels (and more importantly the TiVo executables) have been the same between different models running the same version of the OS. Obviously there are some differences in the logs and config files but it doesn't seem to matter in my experience.
> 
> I think they went with a "one size fits all" approach on the S4s, other than minor stuff like leaving the THX calibration video off of non-XL models.
> 
> All I know for sure from my own experience is that my XL is happy as a clam running on a 2TB XL4 image. It's configured for OTA, which rules out any cable vs whatever tuner issues.


It's still possible that it is only downward compatible with s/w from the 2-tuner model not able to properly handle 4-tuners. Does sound like it is worth a shot though. Doubtful that it will result in an HCF.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Entirely possible. Newer generations certainly have references to older in the code. I don't have an XL and an XL4 image with the same OS version to do an adequate comparison. If you have an XL4 image with the current OS you can get to me, then maybe I can answer the question better.


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## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

ggieseke said:


> PM for a 748 (XL) image sent.


Questions on the 1TB Premiere XL image:

A) Would I use (1) DvrBARS to copy it to a source hard drive and then (2) JMFS to copy/expand/supersize it to the 3TB (current maximum size) target hard drive?

B) Would the source hard drive have to be exactly 1TB or could I use a 2TB drive for this temporary staging step?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

sophosoft said:


> Questions on the 1TB Premiere XL image:
> 
> A) Would I use (1) DvrBARS to copy it to a source hard drive and then (2) JMFS to copy/expand/supersize it to the 3TB (current maximum size) target hard drive?
> 
> B) Would the source hard drive have to be exactly 1TB or could I use a 2TB drive for this temporary staging step?


Depends on the OS version you get. If it is a virgin or older image, you will have to use a 1TB to 2TB drive to put the image on and update it to the latest OS and marry it to your TiVo. Since it is new image and you have no recordings to be concerned about you can use DvrBARS to back it up and restore it on your 3TB drive which would be the quickest transfer if you use a modified or truncated backup and then use JMFS to expand and supersize. You can just as easily use JMFS for the whole process.

However, if you are not in a hurry, there will be a procedure soon coming out soon to expand an XL4 image to 4TB.


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## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

jmbach said:


> However, if you are not in a hurry, there will be a procedure soon coming out soon to expand an XL4 image to 4TB.


How soon and will it be a new version of JMFS or a brand new program?


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## TiVoTJung (Jan 29, 2014)

What if you bought a 4tb drive and cloned it with jmfs. Would that work?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

You can clone the drive with JMFS. If you have an original image as the source drive (one that has not been expanded yet) that is less than 2TB in size, JMFS can use up to 2. 2TB of the 4TB drive. Unfortunately at this time, a 2TB image causes JMFS to throw an exception and quit. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

But if you are talking about cloning a 4TB drive to another. I am not sure. The dd command it uses to clone can but I am not sure at this time if the program passes any parameters that would cause it to fail. You could always drop to the command line and use dd itself to copy. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## TiVoTJung (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm gonna have to look into it. I'm a windows guy, the Linux/unix commands are foreign to me


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

TiVoTJung said:


> I'm gonna have to look into it. I'm a windows guy, the Linux/unix commands are foreign to me


You could try cloning the drive with with ddrescue as found on the Ubuntu Rescue Remix CD (similar I believe to what is used by JMFS, but possibly newer).


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## TiVoTJung (Jan 29, 2014)

L David Matheny said:


> You could try cloning the drive with with ddrescue as found on the Ubuntu Rescue Remix CD (similar I believe to what is used by JMFS, but possibly newer).


Dam im a windows guy. i guess i will have to mess around now with some linux/unix.


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## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

ddrescue might indeed work, but wouldn't you still be left with just a 1TB (if source drive was from Premiere XL) or 2 TB (if source drive was from Premiere XL4) storage setup on your 4TB disk without the ability to expand and supersize into the larger space the 4TB drive affords?


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## TiVoTJung (Jan 29, 2014)

sophosoft said:


> ddrescue might indeed work, but wouldn't you still be left with just a 1TB (if source drive was from Premiere XL) or 2 TB (if source drive was from Premiere XL4) storage setup on your 4TB disk without the ability to expand and supersize into the larger space the 4TB drive affords?


i wish i could just use a disk duplicator and be done with it.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

TiVoTJung said:


> i wish i could just use a disk duplicator and be done with it.


Gnu ddrescue is essentially a disk duplicator. I thought you meant you were going to buy a 4TB TiVo drive and duplicate it (to another 4TB drive). If you start with a smaller drive, sophosoft is right: you would need to use some program that understands the format of the drive to expand it to use all of the additional space.


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## TiVoTJung (Jan 29, 2014)

L David Matheny said:


> Gnu ddrescue is essentially a disk duplicator. I thought you meant you were going to buy a 4TB TiVo drive and duplicate it (to another 4TB drive). If you start with a smaller drive, sophosoft is right: you would need to use some program that understands the format of the drive to expand it to use all of the additional space.


actually that is what i wanted to do. 4tb to 4tb diskk copy, that would work?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Might want to look at hdd raw copy from hddguru if you want to stay in a Windows environment. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## TiVoTJung (Jan 29, 2014)

jmbach said:


> Might want to look at hdd raw copy from hddguru if you want to stay in a Windows environment.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


cool thanks man


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

sophosoft said:


> How soon and will it be a new version of JMFS or a brand new program?


Currently it is using two drives initially and an "undocumented" feature of the current JMFS. Then manually combining the two drives and editing the device list in the header. However, a new version of JMFS is in the works.

So if you want you can copy your current drive to a 4TB drive and use it until the next release of JMFS comes out or until I post the procedure and you feel up to the challenge.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

I just posted the procedure to expand a premiere drive to 4TB here DIY 4TB Premiere. It addresses both XL4 images and already expanded image to 2TB.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

What I would like to know is if weakness is selling a single drive 4tb drive for a premier unit, then what process are they using to make it work?

If weak knees is doing it, why can't we?

Tgc


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

TexasGrillChef said:


> What I would like to know is if weakness is selling a single drive 4tb drive for a premier unit, then what process are they using to make it work?
> 
> If weak knees is doing it, why can't we?
> 
> Tgc


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=513785


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

DVR_DUDE on ebay is offering a 4TB hard drive for the Premiere. Here is a link for one.
I have purchased drives from him in the past and all are still in operation today and work great.


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## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

Any news on a Premiere XL4 2TB -> 4TB upgrade path via a simple JMFS-like copy/expand/supersize program?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

It is still a work in progress.


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## sophosoft (Jan 22, 2005)

What's the latest on the Premiere XL4 2TB -> 4TB upgrade software (via a simple JMFS-like copy/expand/supersize program)?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Still waiting on Comer. However there are some scripts that marwatk made found here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10052988 that can make the manual process a little easier.


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## calvinko (Jul 19, 2015)

Have an already expanded 2TB using Ross Walked method in a TIVO Premier. Just purchased a 4TB WD40EZRX drive. Tried to use the same method, copied fine. However, cannot expand. Got message "expand did not finish successfully"

What do I need to do? 


Any help is appreciated.


Thank you


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