# Tivo HD getting black screen for live tv



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

I have two TivoHDs. Both are getting this black screen for live tv. I can watch recorded shows. I can transfer shows from another tivo. The guides and menu's work fine. The info comes up for the show. There is just no show on any channel. Even on a channel it is trying to record on. I have tried everything I can think of. Both are updated to V11.0h. I am lost on what is wrong. I did the HD test and it seems fine. Sometimes I can reboot it and it will work for several hours and sometimes for 1 minute. I am using Comcast and live in Houston. Both have been solid for about 3 years on Comcast.


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

I am having this exact same problem with Comcast in Houston. I have found so far at least two channels that cause the signal to go away, E! HD and Travel Channel HD.

The TiVo HD will be working fine, even recording other HD shows, but if I manually switch to one of those channels, or it does so automatically to record a show, the new channel will show for ~1 minute then everything goes dark.

The TiVo menus still work fine but Live TV is gone and the Signal Strength is zero.

I am now trying to see if keeping the TiVo on constantly will fix the problem (i.e. not putting it into standby mode).

I've also found that unplugging the coaxial cable or restarting the box helps as well (albeit without leaving Live TV on one of those two problem channels before restarting).

Has anyone else had this problem? Any other suggestions on a possible fix?

I want to say this is due to a software upgrade over a weekend I was out but I don't remember what version I had previously...


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

Well I can't watch any channels at all. I just have to reboot it and pray it lasts at least an hour before it goes black again.


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

You are missing even the SD channels? Try unplugging the coaxial cable from the TiVo and put it directly into the TV. You should still be receiving the SD channels I'd think.


----------



## rick123 (Dec 9, 2004)

I have comcast in Southern NH. I have had several recent incidents of this kind, always on the same channel(s). When this happens, if I change to the channel, I get the show info, but just black screen. When this first started happening about a month ago, the tivo was giving me the message "you don't receive this channel" or something like that, but now I don't get that message.

When I go to settings, channels, cable signal strength, typically the signal is around 87-88 when I first get there, then it will rise and fall between 87-93. The channels that are coming in are at 93 and above. If I stay on the "off" channel, or switch back and forth between the missing channel and a strong signal channel eventually I will get the channel to come in at the signal strength screen. I can then press clear and switch to live tv and the channel will be there.

Funny symptom, after I do this and get the channel to "lock on", if I switch to the other tuner, the channel will not be there again, while it remains on the "locked in" tuner.

Sometimes this happens on more than one channel, but it will always be on one specific channel (HD ABC). If the HD ABC channel is working, all others will be also. In my case I have never lost more than maybe a dozen channels total at once.

Also, my other HD tivo does not suffer this issue. 

In my case it seems to be a signal strength issue, although nothing has changed in my setup (same cable, only one split prior to cable into tivo...). This setup has worked without issue for over a year without this issue, that just appeared last month.

Should this issue become a more constant, I will probably first switch the split location of the cable to this tivo (my split is main to 5 way, so I'll just change the position of this cable on the 5 way). If no change then I will try a new cable. After that I'm kinda at a loss, will probably swap the tivo locations and see if it happens on the other tivo when I swap them.

Anyway, strange problem... Too bad it wasn't happening on the Home Shopping Channel!


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

I have 100 signal strength on both Tivos. One is working and one is not.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

So, it just froze. The channel I was watching froze in place. If I change it to ANY other channel it is just black. Channel info works fine. 0&#37; signal. The only way to fix this is to reboot. This just all started recently on both tivos. I can watch any recorded programs. Everything else works fine. I just can't watch any live tv.


----------



## rick123 (Dec 9, 2004)

Freezing is different. One of my tivo's started freezing when watching live tv about 2 months ago. It had a 500gb upgraded hard drive about two years old. It was freezing while recording also as some recorded shows did not record properly. Sometimes it would freeze then start again. 

Turns out it was hard drive failure. I put in a 1TB and all was well, AND WD replaced the 500 gb with a brand new one for free, just cost of me shipping the broken one back. Didn't even need a receipt, just enter the SN off the hard drive to check if still under warranty. Sweet...

So freezing might be a different problem. We have all seen digital tv freeze, but if this is happening often you might suspect HD. 

However, if your signal strength is ZERO, you have no signal to display.

If you run the cable directly to the back of the tv do you get the channels then?


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

This is definitely not a "freezing" problem as the TiVo itself works just fine. The issue is with the cable signal, tuner card, TiVo software, or some combination of the preceeding. My bet is on the latter.

I am going to re-run Guided Setup to see if this does anything. I don't think it will but it's worth a shot.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

Well only the live tv freezes. The rest of the tivo works fine. This is on both of them. The odds the drives went out at the same time is slim. The tv in the bathroom has never lost signal. Also, if I reboot the tivo it will regain signal. Comcast is coming tomorrow morning. Internet is blazing along. Just sounds like an issue with the tivo. Sucks I can't watch tv tonight. Maybe I will have to hit the bars.


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

I'm with you that it's an issue with the TiVo box vs. the cable signal. Let us know what the Comcast technician says.


----------



## bluetorch (Jul 6, 2010)

I have a six month old HD XL. Los Angeles Time Warner.

I still use the phone line to get Tivo Content, but I only connect the line about once a week.

The Tivo worked perfect until I connected Tuesday night. Not sure what software was added or changed but it has now gone screwy.

Black screens all over the place. Delays from going from live tv to Tivo List. Loss of signal. 
Tried a Restart and unplugged to force a reboot. No luck.

This is without question a Tivo software issue.


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

I completed the Guided Setup again followed by a restart and so far the problems seems to be 99% gone. I can record on each tuner at the same time and live TV hasn't froze yet. I'm still having intermittent issues on the Travel Channel HD and E! HD but that's it. Give that a shot and let us know how it goes.

On a side note, I also wonder if it has something to do with Comcast recently reconfiguring all of their cable channels. Maybe that has caused the signals to be weird the past two weeks while the changes went into effect.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

I have a new cable card in each tivo. Comcast has come out and there are no problems with the line. I have contacted tivo customer service and they have no idea what is wrong also. I tried redoing Repeating the Guided Setup. This appeared to work for two days without a freeze then this morning it has frozen twice. 

If I eject my mcard it does not recognize that it is out. If I try to get to any of the SA CableCard screens it says. 

Failed to load 'CableCARD///apps/CaApp.html'

I am just out of ideas. The only thing left to do now is to replace my tivo.


----------



## aglowlight (Nov 21, 2008)

I too have the problem with frozen picture or black screen. If I change channels on that tuner and go back to the previous channel it's fine for a little while. It happens whether or not I'm recording. It doesn't do it on the SD channels only on my HD channels. It's really frustrating! I've even gone as far as getting a new cable card and running a dedicated line to the Tivo. Prior to running the dedicated line, my signal for USAHD would be around 68, but now it's at or above 93 and the channel still freezes. I don't have this issue with the the other two Tivo HDs.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks! I'm having the exact same problems as the OP and I'm in Houston with Comcast as well.


----------



## t001z (Sep 19, 2002)

Wow, I wish I would have seen this post last night. Last night I was getting reboot loops and then just a grey screen when it did stay on long enough to make it past the "Almost There....". Today, I replaced my hard drive and broke my external connection to my WD TiVo extender. I went through the guided setup and things were working fine. TiVo asked me to confirm a couple channels to make sure I was looking at the right channel lineup and there were no problems. As soon as my TiVo did an update to get more content for the next few days, BAM! grey screens everywhere. No live TV -- tv's throught the rest of the house work fine, as do other TiVo's, just my TiVo HD is affected - of course my other TiVo's may not have tried to connect for the last few days.

Needless to say, I am not too happy that I "un-married" my eSATA drive and lost all my recordings. 

I have Comcast in Chicago and am getting 100&#37; signal strength - and yes I am sure my hard drive is ok (this time)


----------



## PeteTV (May 6, 2006)

I've been having the same blank channels problem, followed by a reboot problem. I solved the reboot problem by disconnecting my eSATA drive and of course losing all my recordings. Then I had to get new drive and update with InstantCake, which means I lost all my season passes/wish lists.... and that' even more annoying then losing the recordings.

I have Frontier FIOS (formerly Verizion) in Seattle.


----------



## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

*I ask that you please do not PM me or email the beta email address directly for grey screen issues.* These need to be troubleshot by customer support first to determine if you qualify for the open beta we are currently running. Customer Support is the first line of support and has the manpower to handle the volume that the Field Trials Team simply doesn't have.

In too1z case he is seeing grey backgrounds in the menus, which is completely different than seeing grey screens ONLY in LiveTV for analog channels. More than likely his unit is just running on a copy of older software and needs to finish upgrading. Please check System Information to see if you are running the latest version of software.

Here's what happens when a TiVo HD first calls in:

First Setup connection - gets basic data based on your zip code (providers, lineups, list of dial-up numbers)
Second Setup connection - gets one day's worth of guide data for your provider & lineup configuration, allowing you to start using the DVR sooner
Third connection - gets the rest of the two weeks worth of data. This connection is scheduled to happen shortly after the customer presses the TiVo button to exit guided setup
Fourth connection - downloads software. This connection is scheduled to happen shortly after all the guide data is processed for the third connection

When a unit is first set up (which includes installing a replacement drive), it is doing a lot of processing. Brand new units came with software version was version 9.4, which we've made many improvements to. Even after upgrading to the latest version of software, it isn't uncommon for the DVR to be a little sluggish until it finishes a lot of initial background work.


----------



## kimsmarkin (Sep 2, 2010)

Press the INFO button to see if you have the channel information and a description of the program. While he still sees a path that has a gray or black screen, press RECORD to lock the tuner to the channel. Note the channel number problem, press the TiVo button, and select Messages < Settings Accounts and Information System< Diagnostics DVR.


----------



## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

Have the same problem and more, it wasn't until the Tivo tech I just spole with 30 minutes ago, suggested the "Kickstart 54"" test on my Tivo. Erros are popping up all over...

Me thinks mine is dyin a slow death


----------



## rossman66 (Apr 30, 2005)

Thank goodness I found this thread. I thought I was going crazy! I'm having the same black screen issue. And on the same channels that mattld1 posted about, namely TOONHD, EHD and TRAVELHD (which are 622, 644 and 662 on Comcast in Houston). I actually posted about this (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=453841) a few weeks ago, but no one replied. I clearly didn't explain the problem as well as badm0j069 did.

So for me, I doubt its a hard drive issue. The exact same symptoms are happening on my Series 3 and Tivo HD (which is only a year old). So far I've had Comcast come out and replace a lot of cable, including a new cable from my the back of my house to the pole. Of course Comcast just blames tivo. One response I got from a Comcast rep was that I need a "tivo firmware upgrade". I dont even think those exist on a tivo? I also have an outstanding issue filed with Tivo customer service. They were confused about the issue and had not heard of it before. Their suggestion (supervisor) was to replace all 3 cablecards. So I did, and, of course, it did not fix the issue.

However, I've noticed over the past day or two that the issue has changed somewhat. Now when I change the channel to an affected channel (say TravelHD), it works just fine. But when I change the channel back to another non-affected channel, I get a black screen for 5-10 seconds or longer. Eventually the good channel starts working again.

As someone else mentioned, when I'm viewing an affected channel and I browse to the CableCard menu, I get the weird error message:
"Failed to load Cablecard///app/CaApp.html"

It seems like certain channels are causing the cablecard to fail or reboot or something. I am suppose to call tivo support back after I changed my cablecards to let them know the status, but I haven't had time yet.

BTW, I am running 11.0h on both tivos and I am not using any tuning adapters nor any external hard drives.

Just thought I would throw my two cents out there. I'll report back after talking to tivo support.


----------



## aglowlight (Nov 21, 2008)

aglowlight said:


> I too have the problem with frozen picture or black screen. If I change channels on that tuner and go back to the previous channel it's fine for a little while. It happens whether or not I'm recording. It doesn't do it on the SD channels only on my HD channels. It's really frustrating! I've even gone as far as getting a new cable card and running a dedicated line to the Tivo. Prior to running the dedicated line, my signal for USAHD would be around 68, but now it's at or above 93 and the channel still freezes. I don't have this issue with the the other two Tivo HDs.


Ok, So after going through all of the of the troubleshooting and reading lots of forums I figured it must be a hard drive issue. Today I decided to take apart a 1 TB tivo expander that was sitting in the closet and use it to replace my hard drive. It didn't take more than 30 minutes total to remove the old hard drive from the Tivo HD and perform the necessary tasks to prepare the 1 TB drive. I reconnected all of the connections and plugged the power back and crossed my fingers.

Since it has rebooted I have not had any problems with any screen freezing whatsoever. It may be me, but the tivo seems much more responsive too.

I've been able to record two hd channels simultaneously without any issues. I'm happy to report that I went from 20 hours of HD to 142 hours of HD. If you're out of warranty I suggest you try a hard drive upgrade. It's the easiest thing I did all day.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

rossman66 said:


> So for me, I doubt its a hard drive issue. The exact same symptoms are happening on my Series 3 and Tivo HD (which is only a year old). So far I've had Comcast come out and replace a lot of cable, including a new cable from my the back of my house to the pole. Of course Comcast just blames tivo. One response I got from a Comcast rep was that I need a "tivo firmware upgrade". I dont even think those exist on a tivo? I also have an outstanding issue filed with Tivo customer service. They were confused about the issue and had not heard of it before. Their suggestion (supervisor) was to replace all 3 cablecards. So I did, and, of course, it did not fix the issue.


I've gone through quite a few cable cards and one Tivo HD so far. Unless the replacement THD has the same problem (possible), I doubt it's a faulty hard drive. Tivo support claims that the signal levels of 100 are the problem so we're trying some attenuators now...

The beta software doesn't apply after all since the problem isn't just with analog channels.

There's a thread regarding the same symptoms in the Cox CableCard thread. The discussion on the particular issue eventually split off into its own thread. I don't have the link handy but after slogging through it, it seems like a CableCard firmware update was required to resolve the issue. Can any of you with this issue confirm the version of firmware on your CableCard? I'll check mine at lunch.


----------



## kbins (Sep 6, 2010)

We're experiencing the same issue but we have no cablecards, nor do we have Cox (we have TWC). After swapping three boxes since June (we're on #4), Tivo Support last night is now telling me that I need to add an attenuator. (they actually told us a week ago to get a booster) I am glad to have found this board and just wish I had found it sooner.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

Attenuators didn't seem to help in my case but I noticed that the signal strength appeared to be in the 90's even though I thought I had it in the 80's with the attenuators. I haven't had enough time to really experiment much with the attenuators yet to confirm as I just got them.


----------



## specter692000 (Sep 12, 2010)

I too am running into this problem of the blank screen for channels bellow 100. I would like to know how the beta team is doing on fixing this problem. i really dont want to send this unit in to be fixed. should note that mine is the Tivo HD XL just got it last week.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

Well just an update. I have rebooted 3 times tonight. Makes it hard to watch MNF. I have noticed E! and TravelHD seem to lock it up fast. 

After talking with Tivo a ton about it. They suggest attenuators might fix my issue. There is no way considering I have had 100 signal for a few years now without any problems.

I think this is an issue with tivo. They need to fix this too. It is just absurd for me to reboot my tivo every day. Sometimes several times an hour.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

badm0j069 said:


> Well just an update. I have rebooted 3 times tonight. Makes it hard to watch MNF. I have noticed E! and TravelHD seem to lock it up fast.
> 
> After talking with Tivo a ton about it. They suggest attenuators might fix my issue. There is no way considering I have had 100 signal for a few years now without any problems.
> 
> I think this is an issue with tivo. They need to fix this too. It is just absurd for me to reboot my tivo every day. Sometimes several times an hour.


I can say with 100% certainty that having your TiVo operating with the signal strength pegged at 100 (and/or your SNR 36 or above) may be too "hot", and that the TiVo CSR was absolutely correct in recommending attenuation (lowering) of the incoming signal. I keep mine at 87-93 signal strength and 34-35 SNR, which keeps grey/black screens from occurring without making any other changes. TiVo tuners are more sensitive to strong signals than almost any other device that I am aware of.

When the signal is "pegged" at 100, you have no idea just how high it really is. Also, it is common in the fall for signal strength to increase, as the resistance of all the cables used in your feed drops with lower temperatures, resulting in a stronger signal.

You can either use fixed-rating attenuators, adjustable strength cable modem attenuators (available at Radio Shack), or as a last resort, add splitters in-line to your TiVo to attenuate the signal (although this last option is really meant for testing purposes and shouldn't be left in place permanently).

Additional note: The best way to determine if attenuation is bringing your signal into a better range, is to watch and compare your RS Corrected/Uncorrected Errors from the DVR Diagnostics screen when tuned to digital channels, before and after attenuating. The totals should drop. If they don't, attenuate more until it makes things worse (while watching Live TV), then back off a step or two and compare again. If the frequency/total of RS errors won't decrease, then it's either a different type of cable signal problem, or it could be in the TiVo. But, you won't get anywhere with TiVo CS until you have tried attenuation. You can always ask the cable company to come out and analyze your signal. Once you have done both, it is then time to really lean on TiVo CS about "fixing the problem".

Attenuators and splitters are usually stocked on all CableCo trucks, and most techs have no problem giving you some for free (even if you approach them while they are working on something else down the street).


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

badm0j069 said:


> After talking with Tivo a ton about it. They suggest attenuators might fix my issue. There is no way considering I have had 100 signal for a few years now without any problems.


There certainly is a way. I can't speak specifically for the Tivo HD but equipment can certainly hold up while outside of recommended operational specs and then fail later down the road.

As for my situation: I was able to get the signal strength down via fixed attenuators but RS values were still creeping up fairly quickly. Then the Tivo HD died entirely (hits a gray screen after the very first powering up screen and never finishes starting up). It's currently being replaced. A Comcast tech is on the way to check the incoming signal.


----------



## specter692000 (Sep 12, 2010)

just ordered the attenuators from smarthome will see if that helps out any


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

Radio Shack did not have the attenuators. I bought a pair off amazon. I will post if it fixes things.


----------



## TS95118 (Sep 15, 2010)

A customer of mine has a TiVo HD, a second TiVo unit, 2 cable cards, 2 tuning adapters and a digital box from TWC. The second TiVo and the digital box work fine. The TiVo HD is missing some channels, but only after the customer shut his power off to the TiVo by shutting off the breaker while doing some electrical work. A TWC tech came out and removed an amplifier and multiple (4 or 5) splitters. The customer is now down to a DC6 to feed his modem and a 3-way splitter. As it should be. The RF levels are within specs. What I'm reading is the problem could be too much signal, too little signal, the cable company, TiVo, hard drives, software, firmware, etc, etc, etc... Does anyone really have a solution? Should my customer contact TiVo customer service or go back to the cable company?


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

badm0j069 said:


> Radio Shack did not have the attenuators. I bought a pair off amazon. I will post if it fixes things.


Too bad you couldn't have gotten an adjustable cable modem attenuator there (I did). You can use them on any analog or digital device, and if you were to use it on a cable modem, it doesn't attenuate the upstream signal. That's also important if you use it on a non-TiVo STB that has an upstream.

The fixed rating attenuators that most cable trucks have stocked are -3dB & -6dB. I have found that in some cases I have had to use both to make -9dB. The adjustable ones for cable modems can do from 0dB to -25dB.

Just putting this out there so people know that there's more than one kind, more than one rating, and an adjustable one as well.

Good Luck


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

TS95118 said:


> A customer of mine has a TiVo HD, a second TiVo unit, 2 cable cards, 2 tuning adapters and a digital box from TWC. The second TiVo and the digital box work fine. The TiVo HD is missing some channels, but only after the customer shut his power off to the TiVo by shutting off the breaker while doing some electrical work. A TWC tech came out and removed an amplifier and multiple (4 or 5) splitters. The customer is now down to a DC6 to feed his modem and a 3-way splitter. As it should be. The RF levels are within specs. What I'm reading is the problem could be too much signal, too little signal, the cable company, TiVo, hard drives, software, firmware, etc, etc, etc... Does anyone really have a solution? Should my customer contact TiVo customer service or go back to the cable company?


Hmmm, I must have read that too quickly the first time I replied... You didn't list the cable cards or tuning adapters as potential problems (or that was in the "etc, etc, etc..." part). Cable cards do fail or can get corrupted. Tuning Adapters have whole threads devoted to them. I'll leave my long reply (for others who might find it helpful), but you may as well skip the first paragraph.

(Original Reply)
Yes, all those things can cause problems. The only thing specific to TiVo (as in a CableCo DVR could have the same problems) is that having 100 for signal strength is very likely to be too high, or very close to it. You can't tell exactly how high it is if it is pegged at 100. The TiVo 0-100 scale has absolutely no direct calculable correlation to the industry standard signal measurement, which is in dB per mV. Although, if it's at 100, but the SNR (signal to noise) is reading below or at 35, it might be OK to leave it be (although strength and SNR are only two of many parameters that can be out of range on a cable signal).

Call whichever one you want to first. TiVo likes it if you contact the CableCo first (especially if they come out and analyze the signal and inspect the cabling/splitters). In the case of a CableCo that just wants to blame the TiVo but won't really do anything to prove it, call TiVo and tell them so. They'll call the CableCo on your behalf, if deemed necessary.

Just don't call TiVo and tell them "my signal has been fine for X years", when it has been X years since it was actually analyzed by the CableCo.

Also, just because the TiVo is the only device connected to cable that is having problems, doesn't automatically mean there is something wrong with the TiVo. Although, TiVo CS will ask about your other TV's etc. & it will help if you can verify that the TiVo is the only problematic device.


----------



## Portia P (Sep 16, 2010)

I've been having *exactly* the same problem as the OP, also with Houston Comcast. It is some of the HD channels that seem to be triggering it, last night it was definitely E-HD. It started about a month ago. Thought it might be my new Slingbox triggering it somehow, but no. I even bought a new Premier box when they went on upgrade sale a couple of weeks ago because I thought my other TiVo HD was going bad. Sigh. So now I have a Premier box and a new Mcard and am still having the same issue. (And the old TiVo HD is on the TV in the den.)

What the heck did Comcast Houston do to its system last month?

At least there may be some kind of answer. I'll have to try the attenuators...


----------



## t001z (Sep 19, 2002)

So it looks like what TivoJerry suggested earlier was correct with my system not being fully updated. 

So now, after replacing the hard drives last month and everything working great for the last few weeks, last night it started rebooting automatically again. I cannot rule out a problem with the powersupply but the device does not seem to be overheating or any other apparently obvious reason. Anyone have any further troubleshooting ideas? 

I just for the fun of it tested my old hard drive to see if there was a problem with it and of course there was no problem -- it passed all tests. 

I guess I am going to call TiVo Customer Support tomorrow.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

Portia P said:


> I've been having *exactly* the same problem as the OP, also with Houston Comcast. It is some of the HD channels that seem to be triggering it, last night it was definitely E-HD.


HD channels will definitely cause this problem for me (again, also in Houston). I can, other other hand, have the Tivo HD running for days without any issues if the tuners remain on SD channels.

I've attenuated until the signal strength is ~87 (and even less while troubleshooting) but still have this issue. Something that Tivo support and I noticed was that RS uncorrected/corrected constantly climb for the HD channels. SD channels have RS values of 0.

I have a truck roll this morning as attenuators don't seem to eliminate the issue. Comcast should be checking the incoming signal but they've done so in the past and claimed that the signal was "fine". I think I need to get Tivo support and Comcast to talk while they're out to make sure it's fine specifically for the Tivo HD and not just per Comcast's seemingly more lenient specifications.


----------



## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Check out the 11.0j thread.

If your problem is the one that update fixes, you may only have a while to wait.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

CuriousMark said:


> Check out the 11.0j thread.
> 
> If your problem is the one that update fixes, you may only have a while to wait.


Like the OP and some others in this thread my issue is nearly the exact opposite -- black or gray screen with digital HD channels. I don't think Comcast Houston has any analog channels. At least, I haven't run across any.



takeshi said:


> I have a truck roll this morning as attenuators don't seem to eliminate the issue. Comcast should be checking the incoming signal but they've done so in the past and claimed that the signal was "fine".


Well that was utterly pointless. Tech said "I don't think it's a signal issue". Of course, he forgot his test equipment at a prior client's house. He also apparently had no clue what an attenuator was so I'm not very confident in his knowledge. Not to mention, my cablecard had not been paired to the replacement Tivo and when the person he called said that the Host ID couldn't be updated he completely gave up on trying to get the card paired. I was able to call in and have them repair the card while he went out to get some other cablecards to try. I did get a follow-up call (and emailed corporate) on the extremely poor survey results I supplied in response to this particular call...



tcfcameron said:


> I keep mine at 87-93 signal strength and 34-35 SNR, which keeps grey/black screens from occurring without making any other changes.


That's not a panacea in my experience. I can attenuate down to 75 signal strength and 33dB SNR and I've attenuated to the range you've suggested and I still have the same problem with losing all channels. There's another variable in my case that hasn't been accounted for.



tcfcameron said:


> Too bad you couldn't have gotten an adjustable cable modem attenuator there (I did).


None of my nearby local Radio Shacks carry any sort of attenuator. I didn't think to search for an adjustable one online. IMO Tivo really needs to equip their products with built-in adjustable attenuation if their equipment is so sensitive. I mean, the Cisco RNG100 I have in the other room uses the exact same SA M card (and I'm not vouching for SA by any means) and has no problems -- nor has any of the other cable equipment I've used.


----------



## Portia P (Sep 16, 2010)

I haven't been able to picknup an attenuator here yet (Ace Electronics has them but I haven't gotten over there yet), but did put a signal splitter on it to temporarily attentuate the signal. Whether it will do any good or not i don't know, since I've been avoiding E-HD and Travel HD, channels that I now know cause the problem.

Takeshi, I guess the not very knowlegeable tech who came out or the tech support phone help didn't have anything to say about any changes they made to the Comcast system here in Houston about a month or so ago? That seems to be when the problem started.

To describe the problem, it is not a grey screen, it is a black screen. Actually, it usually freezes on the screen image and then goes black after awhile, or when I change the channel to try to fix it. The other tuner will also go black as soon as I switch back and forth between them. If it goes black on the tuner I'm not watching (like the other night when TiVo suggestions started recoding something on E-HD) the tuner I am watching will continue without a problem -- until I change the channel or change tuners, then they all go black. I can sometimes fix it if I change off of the offending HD channel and then put it on standby, or if that doesn't work by restarting.


----------



## stevepw (Dec 27, 2008)

The only time that I have gotten a black screen like you describe is when I go to youtube, watch a few videos and then try to go back to TV, then the box freaks out I get a black screen with audio only. Once I reboot, I no longer have that issue. It happens on any channel I change to, sometimes it freezes the picture, playback of recorded shows also show a black screen.


----------



## Portia P (Sep 16, 2010)

With this problem, nothing else is affected except live TV. All the other TiVo functions work fine.

Attenuators do not appear to be the solution, at least not for me. When I tested signal strength on the channels that trigger the problem, it was never higher than 88, then it froze up. Also, lowering the signal strength made me lose the signal completely on some channels were the signal is already low.

So, I've addressed the problem, at least temporarily, the easy way. I went channel by channel and identified the HD channels that trigger the freezes -- in my case Cartoon Network HD, E-HD, and Travel Channel-HD -- and deleted them from my channel list. I have the non-HD versions of those channels, so it's only a minor loss. There may be other channels that trigger the problem, but if so, I've already have them deleted from the channel list because I never watch them. It took awhile but I didn't have to go throught the endless delay of restarts. I've discovered that if I get the freeze/black screen, then change the channel away from the offending channel, then put it on standby for 30 seconds or so or try some other TiVo Central function, it usually restores the picture and regular live TV functions. If I don't change away from the channel that causes the problem, I don't get it back even with a full shut down/restart. 

I'll keep checking back here and see if someone finds a more permanent solution.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

Portia P said:


> Takeshi, I guess the not very knowlegeable tech who came out or the tech support phone help didn't have anything to say about any changes they made to the Comcast system here in Houston about a month or so ago? That seems to be when the problem started.


No, but I really couldn't deal with him any more after it was clear that he didn't know what he was doing. Please note, I'm not saying I'm an expert or anything by any means but when the tech knows less than I do that really worries me.

A supervisor is taking over. We'll see where that goes. I'll definitely share whatever turns up.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

Just an FYI: Generally speaking, when a TiVo can't get a signal, or there is some problem with processing the signal, while in LiveTV mode, the whole screen will turn to the color you have your "Borders" set to, under display settings. The default is grey, some people (like me) change it to black. So I'll get a black screen, instead of a grey screen.

I like to point this out, as sometimes TiVo CSRs still don't get this, and if you say grey screen, they may think it's the cable card screen that can pop up if there is a problem with the cable card's connection/pairing to the CableCo (which is mostly grey colored).

Of course, there are exceptions, like if your internet connection goes down while watching netflix, the screen generally goes all black and the TiVo freezes, no matter what color your borders are set to.

Another FYI: My previous posts about attenuation were never intended as a fix-all for any color screens lacking video. Some people will find that even AFTER a fix is in place, that they will need attenuation to keep RS errors down, which results in better LiveTV and recording quality. I also only recommended it for situations where the signal strength is always pegged at 100 and the SNR is over 35. Signal strength of 100 is as high as TiVo can read, it's not like as if the reading is going to turn red and/or flash if it is beyond the acceptable limits (although it would be nice if it did).


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

rossman66 said:


> Thank goodness I found this thread. I thought I was going crazy! I'm having the same black screen issue. And on the same channels that mattld1 posted about, namely TOONHD, EHD and TRAVELHD (which are 622, 644 and 662 on Comcast in Houston). I actually posted about this (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=453841) a few weeks ago, but no one replied. I clearly didn't explain the problem as well as badm0j069 did.
> 
> So for me, I doubt its a hard drive issue. The exact same symptoms are happening on my Series 3 and Tivo HD (which is only a year old). So far I've had Comcast come out and replace a lot of cable, including a new cable from my the back of my house to the pole. Of course Comcast just blames tivo. One response I got from a Comcast rep was that I need a "tivo firmware upgrade". I dont even think those exist on a tivo? I also have an outstanding issue filed with Tivo customer service. They were confused about the issue and had not heard of it before. Their suggestion (supervisor) was to replace all 3 cablecards. So I did, and, of course, it did not fix the issue.
> 
> ...


I am still having issues as well and frankly it is getting annoying. The problem can't be blamed on just Comcast or TiVo. About the same time as Comcast re-did their cable line-up TiVo released 11.0h and somehow some combination of the two are to blame.

TiVo needs to step it up and contact Comcast and work with them to figure out why specifically 2-3 channels are causing the entire unit to fail. I'm at my wits-end. My other option is to chunk my TiVo and get a Comcast box which I know will work.


----------



## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

I had a similar issue on both my Series 3 OLED and HD units. The problem ended up being related to Comcast sending the cable card signal on the wrong part of the node if that makes sense. The cable card was receiving part of the signal that wasn't specific per node, but wasn't receiving another part necessary to update the cable cards channel mapping properly. I don't know the technical details involved, but once that issue was figured out, they sent the signal to the right node and both of my units started working again. Maybe you are having a similar issue where your cable cards aren't receiving the correct channel mappings for each channel. My symptoms during this time was that depending on the channel they would reboot or lock up. Hope that helps, and maybe you can ask the question and make sure the address and destination of where your cable cards are located on their network are all correct. My issue happened after Comcast switched most of their channels from analog to digital and did a major re-organization of almost every channel it seems.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

tcfcameron said:


> Another FYI: My previous posts about attenuation were never intended as a fix-all for any color screens lacking video. Some people will find that even AFTER a fix is in place, that they will need attenuation to keep RS errors down, which results in better LiveTV and recording quality. I also only recommended it for situations where the signal strength is always pegged at 100 and the SNR is over 35. Signal strength of 100 is as high as TiVo can read, it's not like as if the reading is going to turn red and/or flash if it is beyond the acceptable limits (although it would be nice if it did).


Sorry, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. It just seemed like it might be taken that way in context.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

takeshi said:


> Sorry, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. It just seemed like it might be taken that way in context.


It's all good. Things sometimes get blurry, as to who said what, when people post a reply that quotes multiple people. Then, somebody will come along and post a reply quoting that reply, but not utilizing multi-quote, and different posts/quotes get mixed together and it truly does sometimes put words in the wrong person's mouth.

I'll admit that I posted about attenuation in a thread where the topic had mutated into "What's the actual fix?" I just didn't notice that until I had already posted.

There are people out there who have had a certain flavor of the grey/black screen issue, that eliminated it by attenuation. I would be one of those people, and it worked on four TiVos. In other cases, some people have greatly reduced the frequency of them occurring.

I'm forming the opinion, that the problems being discussed in this thread are of a different flavor than that of which I have the most experience with.

So, I'll be reverting to read-only on this thread.

Best of Luck To All


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

There are a number of different issues, all getting scrambled in this one thread. There are several of us in Houston having a very specific problem with Comcast. It started around the time they reconfigured their channel numbers. My son asked me about it (he has an HD XL). I created a thread to get some feedback for him. Turns out others had it also. Then it turned out I had it. It was on channels I rarely watch, so I never realized it.

It is E-HD and Travel Channel HD. The respective SD channels are fine. All other HD channels are fine. I'd have been screaming by now, except I don't watch those much. Someone else reported TOON-HD also has it.

It's a very specific problem, a black screen, and it often causes the next channel you tune to also have the problem. Then it clears up.

I have two S3--both have this exact problem. So we have S3s, HDs, all across Houston, all with this exact problem. It is clearly something Comcast has done, that the TiVo doesn't like.

How do we fix this? Can TiVo help us?

PS: We can start a new thread if needed. The other talk about all channels being black, etc, is just confusing the Houston Comcast issue.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

astrohip said:


> It is E-HD and Travel Channel HD. The respective SD channels are fine. All other HD channels are fine. I'd have been screaming by now, except I don't watch those much. Someone else reported TOON-HD also has it.


I had not narrowed it down to E! HD (644) and Travel HD (662) until fairly recently. Haven't tested much with Toon HD (622) but I was just able to end up with the same issue by tuning in Toon HD.

Tuning both tuners to non-affected channels (I've been using 2 and 9 just because they've worked for me) and restarting gets around this. I've also recently discovered that tuning to non-affected channels and disconnecting the cable until the Tivo indicates that it is searching for signal seems to get around the issue without a restart. Both tuners work properly once the cable is reconnected in my experience.

Haven't heard back from the Comcast supervisor or the person from corporate that I've been emailing though.



astrohip said:


> It's a very specific problem, a black screen, and it often causes the next channel you tune to also have the problem. Then it clears up.


I get a black screen for all channels when this happens to me and the cablecard menus cannot be loaded. Maybe I haven't waited long enough but it never clears itself up in my experience.

Are you receiving any channels OTA? I'm cable only.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

You do have to wait a while, but I find it eventually comes back to life. A minute or so. And sometimes you have to change channels a couple times to kick-start it.

I have both Comcast and antenna. My son has only Comcast. That doesn't seem to have any affect.


----------



## rcliff (Jun 16, 2001)

I started seeing this exact same issue with a TivoHD on Cablevision this Tuesday. All channels went black including all SD/HD cable channels _as well as OTA channels._ The Tivo appeared to work normally otherwise including playback of recorded shows. A soft boot restored live TV for a brief period of times each time this occurred. I finally did a cold boot and it seems to be stable now for >24 hours. Fingers crossed it doesn't come back.


----------



## specter692000 (Sep 12, 2010)

got the attuniators (sp) in on monday so far so good only have the 3 FAM hooked up and so far on turner 1 and 2 getting a signal strength at 93 holding steady, down from 100 and a SNR of 35 db with the OOB SNR bouncing between 20 & 21 db Should note that i have Newwave cable out of KY formally charter communications.


----------



## lethcoeb (Apr 19, 2002)

Count me in on this problem - also a Houstonian (well, West U, close enough) and although I rarely watch my TiVo HD in the bedroom, on occasion I do and I have had the gray screen come along.

I had not localized it to a specific channel, but I do recall it happening on E HD.

Also, does not seem to affect my Series 3 TiVo downstairs.

I have also gotten the funny cablecard error message "Failed to load Cablecard///app/CaApp.html" and my solution was to remove and reinstall the cablecard - seems to fix the problem.

Frustrating that we've regressed back into having issues after all of these years - first failed external WD harddrives, multiple failed drives in Series 2 boxes, etc. The stuff we go through to have our technology...


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

jaredmwright said:


> I had a similar issue on both my Series 3 OLED and HD units. The problem ended up being related to Comcast sending the cable card signal on the wrong part of the node if that makes sense. The cable card was receiving part of the signal that wasn't specific per node, but wasn't receiving another part necessary to update the cable cards channel mapping properly. I don't know the technical details involved, but once that issue was figured out, they sent the signal to the right node and both of my units started working again. Maybe you are having a similar issue where your cable cards aren't receiving the correct channel mappings for each channel. My symptoms during this time was that depending on the channel they would reboot or lock up. Hope that helps, and maybe you can ask the question and make sure the address and destination of where your cable cards are located on their network are all correct. My issue happened after Comcast switched most of their channels from analog to digital and did a major re-organization of almost every channel it seems.


How did you get your issue fixed? Did you just call Comcast and they worked it on their end?


----------



## rcliff (Jun 16, 2001)

rcliff said:


> I started seeing this exact same issue with a TivoHD on Cablevision this Tuesday. All channels went black including all SD/HD cable channels _as well as OTA channels._ The Tivo appeared to work normally otherwise including playback of recorded shows. A soft boot restored live TV for a brief period of times each time this occurred. I finally did a cold boot and it seems to be stable now for >24 hours. Fingers crossed it doesn't come back.


Happening again for me today (had to reboot 3 times to fix) and it's extremely annoying. I haven't figured out what's triggering it but the last time it happened I could tune one channel only (HBOHD) but nothing else either on cable or OTA. Looking for answers...


----------



## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

mattld1 
"How did you get your issue fixed? Did you just call Comcast and they worked it on their end?"

Yes, just had to get the right technician to notice the problem and once they sent it to the correct node, the cable card updated and the issue immediately went away. I actually had tried swapping cable cards, splitters, TiVos around and even my cable amplifier before speaking to the right person and getting the issue resolved. Be persistant and tell them that you want some credit for the issue they created in order to give them some incentive to get the problem fixed. It definitely sounds like the same issue I was having.


----------



## rcliff (Jun 16, 2001)

My TivoHD continues to have this problem and a recording was cut short as a result last night. Black screen on every channel this morning including OTA channels. Very frustrating! My Tivo is running 11.0h. I've tried soft rebooting, cold boot, pulling Cablecard, and power cycling tuning adapter. I'm assuming that this is not cable related since OTA channels are affected as well. Any suggestions?


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

rcliff said:


> My TivoHD continues to have this problem and a recording was cut short as a result last night. Black screen on every channel this morning including OTA channels. Very frustrating! My Tivo is running 11.0h. I've tried soft rebooting, cold boot, pulling Cablecard, and power cycling tuning adapter. I'm assuming that this is not cable related since OTA channels are affected as well. Any suggestions?


Two questions.

When you connect you cable to the TV directly you get channels right?

When you remove the cable card & TA (if you have one) & run the cable direct to the cable in on the TIVo do you get anything?


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

I also have a Tivo-HD, DVR extender, and Comcast service. 

Many HD-Channels will break up and go black screen. Recordings on HD channels may or may not complete. Majority of the time I get 30 seconds to 15 minutes of a program and it stops, reported as "partial" in now playing. Live TV will go black changing the channel and coming back restores reception. 

SD channels are completely unaffected.

I spent an hour or so on the phone with Tivo support and they seemed to point towards signal strength as the problem. (signals in the 82-87 range good and bad channels)

I have had Comcast out and they measured my signal levels and said they are "within specifications" so they are not going to do anything.

I replaced all the cable on my house with new (RG-6 3Ghz rated) coax, one unbroken run from the splitter (Only one splitter for cable modem right at the drop) to the Tivo.

Signal strength is now 92-100 on good and bad channels

Also all the "bad" HD channels seem to be in the 700Khz range good ones are in the 500Khz range.


----------



## aglowlight (Nov 21, 2008)

I had the same problems described here and my issue was a faulty 500 gig dvr expander. Since removing the dvr expander I have no longer had any issues.

Could this be a bad hard drive either in the tivo or the expander? Has anyone else that experienced these problems attempted to replace hard drive or remove the dvr expander?

Just to confirm that the dvr expander was bad, I also removed the hard drive from the case and installed it in a Tivo HD after using WinMFS to copy my original Tivo hard drive. The 500 gig hard drive would stutter, freeze, and black screens.


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

I have been messing around today and am convinced this is a Tivo problem.

When the HD channels start pixelating, stuttering, and ultimately go black the Tivo also becomes unresponsive. 

Pressing the Tivo button I hear the "ding" but it could take 30 seconds or more for the now showing screen to appear. 

I fear Comcast has upped the bitrate or something on the HD channels and the Tivo-HD is just not powerful enough to handle it and will soon be obsolete.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

Qwertinsky said:


> I have been messing around today and am convinced this is a Tivo problem.
> 
> When the HD channels start pixelating, stuttering, and ultimately go black the Tivo also becomes unresponsive.
> 
> ...


No, the TiVo HD is not "underpowered" when it comes to handling anything that is within the specifications/parameters set for HD channels. In some cases, CableCos apply COMPRESSION to some HD channels, which actually DECREASES the bit-rate and quality. But, that being said, the TiVo HD is perfectly capable of handing uncompressed 720P & 1080i channels, at full bit-rate.

The way you describe your TiVo acting, it sounds like the hard drive is the component that may be to blame. While it may pass all tests used to find bad sectors and SMART testing, it may no longer be able to maintain the read/write performance necessary to stream the A/V on and off the drive. This is only an opinion, based on what you have posted.

I have personally found that you can take a drive from a computer, that has been operating fine in the computer, passes all tests, install it into a TiVo HD, and the TiVo will act exactly as you describe. In my case, I had four 500GB WD Caviar SE (black) hard drives that all did this. They had been is use in the computer for 5 years. They should have had more than enough performance to work, but over time they had lost performance, while not actually resulting in any bad sectors or triggering any errors as each was tested.

The opinion portions of this are being provided for your posted problem, only, not to be mistaken for me saying this is anybody else's problem (unless their TiVo HD is behaving in exactly the same way as you described).

Best of Luck


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

tcfcameron said:


> The way you describe your TiVo acting, it sounds like the hard drive is the component that may be to blame. While it may pass all tests used to find bad sectors and SMART testing, it may no longer be able to maintain the read/write performance necessary to stream the A/V on and off the drive. This is only an opinion, based on what you have posted.


But that does not explain why HD channels in the 700Khz range are effected while HD channels in the 500Khz range are fine


----------



## rcliff (Jun 16, 2001)

Grumock said:


> Two questions.
> 
> When you connect you cable to the TV directly you get channels right?


Yes, the same feed is fine to all other TVs.


> When you remove the cable card & TA (if you have one) & run the cable direct to the cable in on the TIVo do you get anything?


Haven't tried that yet but I do have an OTA feed in the Tivo which also exhibits the same problem simultaneously so I'm thinking that rules out the cablecard and tuning adapter but if it's a bug in the Tivo software perhaps that's not the case.


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

So I just got off the phone with Tivo again and am not impressed...

When I called on Friday the person I spoke to said my signal levels in the 82-87 range was low and recommended removing any splitters and etc. to increase it. 

Now my signals are 92-100 and the problem still exists. 

The person I talked to today recommends I buy some attenuators to reduce the signal strength.

So signal strength in the 80's is too low and the 90's is too high? 

I questioned him on that point and he hmmmed and hawed and said it's not so much my signal strength as it's my S/N ratio is too high.... 

Silly me thinking a higher signal to noise ratio means more signal less noise and that would be a good thing

I am beginning to suspect a cover up in Tivo's part...


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

Qwertinsky said:


> So I just got off the phone with Tivo again and am not impressed...
> 
> When I called on Friday the person I spoke to said my signal levels in the 82-87 range was low and recommended removing any splitters and etc. to increase it.
> 
> ...


what is your SNR?


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

Grumock said:


> what is your SNR?


35db reads the same on my cable modem status page


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

Qwertinsky said:


> 35db reads the same on my cable modem status page


that's not bad at all. In fact in my experience TIVOs like it at that range better then above 37


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

Qwertinsky said:


> But that does not explain why HD channels in the 700Khz range are effected while HD channels in the 500Khz range are fine


Perhaps the 700Khz range channels somehow require more of the hard drive, in terms of performance. Unlikely, but not entirely impossible. Are the 500Khz 720P and the 700Khz 1080i (or the other way around)? That could make a difference.

Maybe they are compressing the channels in the 500Khz range, but are not compressing them in the 700Khz range.

I'd recommend recording a 1 hour program from the 500Khz range & also a 1 hour program from the 700Khz range. Then go into the extended program information and see if one or the other is substantially different in size.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

Grumock said:


> that's not bad at all. In fact in my experience TIVOs like it at that range better then above 37


Agreed, SNR of 35 is OK. SNR above 35 starts pushing it. SNR of 38+ is likely to cause problems in the majority of TiVo HD units.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

Qwertinsky said:


> So I just got off the phone with Tivo again and am not impressed...
> 
> When I called on Friday the person I spoke to said my signal levels in the 82-87 range was low and recommended removing any splitters and etc. to increase it.
> 
> ...


The CS Rep you spoke with today was probably was thinking of the ranges that work best with the TiVo Premiere. The CS Rep you spoke with before was probably thinking of the ranges that work best with the TiVo HD.

The readouts on the Premiere are skewed and read lower than if you plugged the same coax into a TiVo HD. So, if the CS Rep of the moment isn't fully schooled in both worlds, or is just scatter-brained, you may get the wrong advice on signal strength.

Adding suspicions of conspiracies to your posts will not get people to help you, and could even make some hesitant to try and help. I almost didn't.


----------



## Grumock (Dec 16, 2008)

tcfcameron said:


> The readouts on the Premiere are skewed and read lower than if you plugged the same coax into a TiVo HD.


Seriously? Do you have an idea of the DB difference between them. It's good info to know.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

Grumock said:


> Seriously? Do you have an idea of the DB difference between them. It's good info to know.


Off the top of my head, from when I owned a couple of Premieres briefly (I returned both), I needed to use 3 to 4 times the amount of attenuation to keep RS errors from rapidly and steadily up-ticking. From what I recall, I used a -3dB on my TiVo HDs, and -12dB (-6dB x2) on the Premieres.

The CSR I spoke with had me use every attenuator I had on-hand, in an attempt to stop the fast/steady uptick of RS errors. I think that the focus was on dropping the SNR to a point that the uptick would be considered "acceptable", more so than worrying about signal strength.

Some have said (speculated) that the new tuner chips in the Premiere are "more sensitive" and don't require a signal reading over 80 strength to operate properly.

I don't remember much about the SNR readings I had with Premieres, except that with the two that I had, the SNR for the cable card read 2dB, which isn't possible (the cable card couldn't even work if that were a true reading).

I hope that answers your question. I don't want to get Off-Topic too far, or for too long.


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

tcfcameron said:


> Off the top of my head, from when I owned a couple of Premieres briefly (I returned both), I needed to use 3 to 4 times the amount of attenuation to keep RS errors from rapidly and steadily up-ticking.


I forgot to add before the two RS errors are both 0 in my case.


----------



## lethcoeb (Apr 19, 2002)

lethcoeb said:


> Count me in on this problem - also a Houstonian (well, West U, close enough) and although I rarely watch my TiVo HD in the bedroom, on occasion I do and I have had the gray screen come along.
> 
> I had not localized it to a specific channel, but I do recall it happening on E HD.
> 
> ...


For what its worth, I confirmed tonight that going to E HD does force my TiVo HD to lose the cablecard, and the system goes gray.

Spend better part of two hours watching TV, including MNF on ESPN and other random channels. Was on E HD for about 30 seconds, when the screen picture locked up, going to other channels resulted in the gray screen, and going to CableCard status gave me the "Failed to load Cablecard///app/CaApp.html" message.

Someone convince me that this is not an issue with the TiVo, considering my Series 3 does not do it. I suppose that when Comcast switched the HD lineup from the 200 series channels to the 600 series channels something changed to force this, but I have a hard time believing that there is not some sort of problem with the TiVo box.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

lethcoeb said:


> Someone convince me that this is not an issue with the TiVo, considering my Series 3 does not do it.


I'm not sure that anyone's currently in a position to clearly state what the exact cause is. I didn't get my Tivo HD until the end of July but those that have had theirs prior to that indicate that they didn't have this issue until around sometime in August of this year. It seems that there were both channel lineup changes going on at Comcast Houston as well as an update for the Tivo HD's. No clearly causal relationships there either though...

FWIW my Cisco RNG100 also uses an SA cablecard (I'm guessing S but I haven't removed it to confirm) but it has no problems with these channels.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

astrohip said:


> You do have to wait a while, but I find it eventually comes back to life. A minute or so. And sometimes you have to change channels a couple times to kick-start it.
> 
> I have both Comcast and antenna. My son has only Comcast. That doesn't seem to have any affect.


I think I'm wrong. Accidentally switched to E-HD yesterday, then switched to the other tuner and started watching something else. It locked up after a couple minutes. Upon flipping around, I realized I was on E-HD. Triad all the tricks, changing channels, tuners, going from an OTA channel to cable and back, etc. Nothing worked. Not even OTA/antenna. Had to reboot.

So no coming back to life after a few minutes.



lethcoeb said:


> Someone convince me that this is not an issue with the TiVo, considering my Series 3 does not do it.


My son has a TiVo-HD, we have 2 S3s. It happens on ALL of these units. So HD or S3 makes no diff.

It is clearly something related to Comcast and the cablecard signal. Just don't know how to get TPTB to resolve this (or acknowledge it).


----------



## rcliff (Jun 16, 2001)

This problem is driving me nuts! It was fine for about 24 hours and now every couple of hours I am getting all black live TV on all channels (cable and OTA) again. I tried removing the tuning adapter thinking that it could be the culprit but it jut happened again. Extremely annoying


----------



## hankuro (Nov 7, 2009)

rcliff said:


> This problem is driving me nuts! It was fine for about 24 hours and now every couple of hours I am getting all black live TV on all channels (cable and OTA) again. I tried removing the tuning adapter thinking that it could be the culprit but it jut happened again. Extremely annoying


If you are on LI and if you're problems are coincidental with CV ALL BOX ALL THE TIME rollout then please see ALL DIGITAL CABLEVISION VS. TIVO thread.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

lethcoeb said:


> Someone convince me that this is not an issue with the TiVo, considering my Series 3 does not do it.


I'm convinced that it isn't (that's just my opinion). I'm not saying that it isn't possible for TiVo to be able to tweak something in a future software update that could help. But, that would be TiVo making a patch for somebody else's problems. The CableCard problem, as you describe it, is what screams that the problem lies within the CableCo's part of things and/or the equipment they provide you with, such as CableCards & Tuning Adapters. It could also be unrelated to the equipment, but fully caused by improper configuration at the head-end and/or their network configuration settings.

If your CableCo won't cooperate with you, or refuses to admit it could be their problem, call TiVo CS and tell them that. They will contact your CableCo, on your behalf. This has been a way that many people, with many different problems, have had to resort to, to get things done.

Before anybody pounces, and says that they removed/bypassed/replaced anything, and the problems stayed, please recall if you rebooted and repeated guided setup with EVERY change you made. If you didn't, it would not be surprising that your problems stayed afterward.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

Ok, update. I tried 6 and 12db attenuators. The 12 got me down to 93&#37;. The channels still freeze my tivo. Basically, I can't watch those 3 channels. There really is only one show I care about on those 3 channels. 

So, my only fix is to skip channels E!HD, CartoonHD, and TravelHD.


----------



## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Is that with 11.0j?


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

CuriousMark said:


> Is that with 11.0j?


For me, yes.

UPDATE: Finally got a Comcast tech that was familiar with Tivos, cablecards *and* the black screen issue caused by tuning to 622/644/662 in Houston. He had checked the outer wiring before talking to me and while I was at work. Replaced some bad connectors. That didn't resolve the issue but the Cisco RNG100 finally started receiving the MAX channels it was missing.

After running some tests and talking to someone they determined that there was significant noise on my node. They're supposedly working on that today. We'll see if that resolves the issue.

I think we probably should split off the Houston users at some point as it's a fairly specific issue. The tech yesterday confirmed that when the HD channels in the 300's were removed that they received a *TON* of calls from Tivo users with cablecards for this very same problem. The interesting thing is that he stated that it was only series 3 units. I did not prompt him in any way for any of this information -- he offered it freely and of his own initiative once I explained my symptoms.


----------



## HcRUL (Sep 28, 2010)

I am a Houston Comcast user with a Series 3 and Premiere with the cable card blank screen issue. I noticed tuning to 644 triggering the problem on both units. 

I had Comcast out on 9/2 to check the line and they said the signal was good but that it could be a cable card issue. Last weekend I replaced all three cable cards and still have the same issues. I have tried attenuators to reduce the SNR as well as bypassing any internal splitters and hooking one tivo directly up to the main cable feed but the problem persists. 

I only found this thread on Monday. It is reassuring that others are having this issue but it is also frustrating that it has been going on for a month. I will dig into the problem again over the weekend when I have some time.

My current workaround has been to cancel any season passes recording on 644 and replace them with the SD 44 channel. If the card starts showing all channels blank again I restart the tivo or bounce between the test channels, dvr diagnostics, and cable card menus until the channels start showing up.

It looks like another Houston Comcast customer posting to the Premiere forum went through 3 Premieres with what sounds like the same issue before giving up. I can't post a link yet but the thread is 8152713.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

badm0j069 said:


> Ok, update. I tried 6 and 12db attenuators. The 12 got me down to 93%. The channels still freeze my tivo. Basically, I can't watch those 3 channels. There really is only one show I care about on those 3 channels.
> 
> So, my only fix is to skip channels E!HD, CartoonHD, and TravelHD.


What is your SNR reading? Is it 35 or less now?

I'd recommend checking the signal strength and SNR on multiple channel tiers, as it can vary between channels, more so on channels in different tiers.


----------



## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

Wow, I just got hit by my first black screen a few moments ago on my S3 OLED.

I was watching American Dad (toon?) and the picture started stuttering. Pressed the live button to see how the other tuner was fairing and I got a black screen. Menus and recorded stuff still worked, but live was dead. Unit become unresponsive when I switched to the DVR diagnostics screen. Rebooted and things seem ok for now.

This has never happenned before.

Did Tivo release some bad update recently?


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

HcRUL said:


> I had Comcast out on 9/2 to check the line and they said the signal was good but that it could be a cable card issue.


If this tech shows up again I'll ask him what to check as I had 2 prior techs state that the signal was fine. Clearly they're not all checking for the same thing. Comcast Houston's general definition of "fine" doesn't jive with that of the S3 Tivos.


----------



## theguru1974 (Apr 9, 2002)

Are the folks who are getting black screens seeing any other symptoms, such as the picture/audio stuttering and breaking up before freezing, and then a black screen on live tv on that channel? That has been my experience and I wonder if the stuttering points more to a bad hard drive than tuner related issues.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

theguru1974 said:


> Are the folks who are getting black screens seeing any other symptoms, such as the picture/audio stuttering and breaking up before freezing, and then a black screen on live tv on that channel? That has been my experience and I wonder if the stuttering points more to a bad hard drive than tuner related issues.


Not always but there seem to be multiple issues discussed in this thread.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

My SNR is 35. The signal strength is between 87-93. I have no other problems at all. If I try to watch the 3 channels(E!HD, TravelHD, CartoonHD) it will lock up instantly. If I change the channel it will go freeze up and if I change the channel everything live is black. The only way to fix it is to reboot.


----------



## s44 (Sep 12, 2007)

This -- black screen on live TV -- just appeared on my series 3. Comcast in Florida (Bonita Springs).


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

Nothing much new from here. Talked to Bobby with Comcast corporate and they still suspect the issue with backfeed noise on the node. According to him, 622, 644 and 662 are on the same frequency and seem to be more susceptible to noise for some reason. They're running a sweep or something to determine the cause and to address it directly. It sounds like this node doesn't affect a large area. However, I doubt that the other Houston customers in this thread live in my neighborhood so it's not unreasonable to make a guess that there are other nodes affected in the metro area.

Out of curiosity, for those in Houston, can you indicate what part of town/neighborhood you're located in?


----------



## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Am I correct that this issue has the following symptoms for everyone?:

All LiveTV goes black, regardless of letterbox settings (no "grey")
Tuning to a "toxic" channel causes it to occur 
Previous recordings play back fine
Recordings made during this time do not have video
It can be resolved by restarting or by pulling the cable feed
It can be avoid by removing all "bad" channels from the channel list and not tuning to them
CableCARD menus are not accessible while this is happening

A few questions that I'd like to see as many responses on as possible:

Which platform are you experiencing this on? (Series3, TiVo HD, Premiere)
Does it affect analog channels? (yes, no, I don't have analog channels)
How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel?
What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? (Single or multi, Motorola, NDS, or SA/Cisco)
What channel numbers do you know to cause this?
What is your geographic location?
Who is your provider?
Do you have a tuning adapter?


----------



## LukeNM (Aug 29, 2007)

Which platform are you experiencing this on? TiVo HD - 11.0h
Does it affect analog channels? Yes (only using analog channels below 100)
How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? It just happens usually overnight, does not appear to be channel dependent!
What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? Multi SA card was just installed yesterday. Has done this from day one 12/2009), without cable card, setup as cable no box. Comcast all digital conversion slated for 11/09/2010.
What channel numbers do you know to cause this? Any, it does not appear to be related to any specific channel.
What is your geographic location? Albuquerque, New Mexico
Who is your provider? Comcast
Do you have a tuning adapter? No


----------



## LukeNM (Aug 29, 2007)

I only had 4 posts and needed to send TivoJerry a message so...


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

A few questions that I'd like to see as many responses on as possible:

Which platform are you experiencing this on? TiVo HD,
Does it affect analog channels? no
How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? 30 sec, 15 minutes, 50 minutes... no precise time
What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? Motorola "M" card
What channel numbers do you know to cause this? Any HD channel no SD channels
What is your geographic location? Seattle, WA market
Who is your provider? Comcast
Do you have a tuning adapter? No

I hope this gets straightened out soon. Even my wife has said "I was going to watch TV but with the Tivo being F'd up, why bother..." After all it is our only cable box so we can not even watch TV any more.


----------



## bobcnn (Sep 16, 2000)

The problem with mine started last week when I noticed a channel or two were missing. I have Comcast, local stations only. And then Sunday I missed several shows because there was no signal on any channel. I restarted and got the channels back, and then again each day this week, all the channels disapeared. I have missed most of the shows this week that I normally Tivo. I also notice when I check channels within the Cable Card set up menu, none of my locals even show up, if I type in their number, it still doesnt go to it). All my locals are in the 800's.

&#8226;Which platform are you experiencing this on? Series3, 
&#8226;Does it affect analog channels? yes, when I lose the digital channels, the analog ones are gone too
&#8226;How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? It doesn't seem to be one channel. 
&#8226;What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? I have both an M card and a regular card
&#8226;What channel numbers do you know to cause this? Only get locals, doesn't matter which channel I leave the tivo on.
&#8226;What is your geographic location? Atlanta, GA
&#8226;Who is your provider? Comcast
&#8226;Do you have a tuning adapter? No


----------



## lethcoeb (Apr 19, 2002)

Which platform are you experiencing this on? (Series3, TiVo HD, Premiere)
Confirmed on TiVo HD
Does it affect analog channels? (yes, no, I don't have analog channels)
Yes (as far as I know)
How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel?
Within 1 minute
What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? (Single or multi, Motorola, NDS, or SA/Cisco)
Motorola Multi
What channel numbers do you know to cause this?
622, 644 and 662 
What is your geographic location?
Houston
Who is your provider?
Comcast
Do you have a tuning adapter?
No


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

* Which platform are you experiencing this on? TiVo HD
* Does it affect analog channels? When it locks up you can't view anything
* How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? Less than a minute
* What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? SA Multi
* What channel numbers do you know to cause this? 622, 644 and 662 
* What is your geographic location? Houston (north part of montrose area)
* Who is your provider? Comcast
* Do you have a tuning adapter? No


----------



## isr (Feb 1, 2009)

Which platform are you experiencing this on? (Series3, TiVo HD, Premiere) Series 3
Does it affect analog channels? (yes, no, I don't have analog channels) Don't know
How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? Happens both after a few minutes and in the morning, when the Tv?TIVO have been off all night.
What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? (Single or multi, Motorola, NDS, or SA/Cisco) Single MCard Scientific Atlanta
What channel numbers do you know to cause this? 704 (NBC HD)
What is your geographic location? NYC
Who is your provider? Time Warner Cable, Southern Manhattan
Do you have a tuning adapter? Yes, though I don't think that any of my channels currently require it.


----------



## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

It's like as if a TiVo Technical Writer skimmed everything I've been posting about signal strength and SNR, then wrote a support article, and added screen shots (added/updated: 09/29/2010 11:09 AM):

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/150/

It's one of the better support articles, however it originated


----------



## rossman66 (Apr 30, 2005)

Am I correct that this issue has the following symptoms for everyone?:

All LiveTV goes black, regardless of letterbox settings (no "grey") *Yes*
Tuning to a "toxic" channel causes it to occur *Yes*
Previous recordings play back fine *Yes*
Recordings made during this time do not have video *Yes*
It can be resolved by restarting or by pulling the cable feed *Restarting, yes but pulling cablecard, no*
It can be avoid by removing all "bad" channels from the channel list and not tuning to them *Yes*
CableCARD menus are not accessible while this is happening *Correct - get Failed to load message*


A few questions that I'd like to see as many responses on as possible:
Which platform are you experiencing this on? *Series3 and a new TiVo HD*
Does it affect analog channels? *No*
How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? *30 secs to 2-3 mins*
What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? *3 Scientific Atlanta M-cards* (2 in series3 and 1 in hd)
What channel numbers do you know to cause this? *622 TOONHD, 644 EHD, 662 TRAVELHD*
What is your geographic location? *Houston, TX 77007*
Who is your provider? *Comcast*
Do you have a tuning adapter? *No*

Jerry I have a Tivo support request open with CS. If you want the ref. number, let me know. This issue started for me around 8/8/2010 (first time I noticed). I have swapped all 3 cards for new ones on 8/30/2010 and the same problem exists on both tivos. I would also like to add that when a cablecard in tunned to a "bad" channel and I try to view any cablecard menu, I get the "Failed to load Cablecard///app/CaApp.html" message.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

And still no fix for this. It happened out of the blue just a few months ago for me.


----------



## bobcnn (Sep 16, 2000)

I'm still having the problem. My tivo has not recorded more than half the shows I have season passes for. I keep having to restart to get the channels back. But when it comes time for them to record, the channels are missing. As much as I love my Tivo (and I have had one since they first went on sale, paid $1000 for my first one), I'm about ready to cancel my service). If I cant trust it to get the shows I want to watch, it is really of very little use. I hope they fix the problem soon.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

This isn't a solution, it's a workaround but if you're having the "toxic channel" problem then remove the affected channels and use their SD counterparts. Or don't tune to those channels with Live TV and make sure your season passes and wish lists aren't using those channels. While a restart will temporarily resolve the issue, if the tuners are left on or switch to an affected channel you'll lose your channels again.

I can't speak to other issues mentioned in this thread.


----------



## bobcnn (Sep 16, 2000)

One channel doesn't seem to trigger the problem. I only get my locals through Comcast, and only record on five of them, and it is hit and miss on when the channels are showing up, and when they aren't.


----------



## kbins (Sep 6, 2010)

Am I correct that this issue has the following symptoms for everyone?:

* All LiveTV goes black, regardless of letterbox settings (no "grey"):: _Yes but only on one of the two tuners; the other one is fine_
* Tuning to a "toxic" channel causes it to occur :: _Can't seem to consistently replicate it with a particular channel_
* Previous recordings play back fine :: _Yes I can always tune into "now playing and watch something_
* Recordings made during this time do not have video :: _Yes_
* It can be resolved by restarting or by pulling the cable feed : _Yes_
* It can be avoid by removing all "bad" channels from the channel list and not tuning to them :: _Not applicable_
* CableCARD menus are not accessible while this is happening :: _Not applicable_

A few questions that I'd like to see as many responses on as possible:

* Which platform are you experiencing this on? (Series3, TiVo HD, Premiere) _Series 3 HD XL; 11.0h-01-2-658 _
* Does it affect analog channels? (yes, no, I don't have analog channels) _yes_
* How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? _not clear since it seems to happen in some cases when I haven't had the Tivo on at all_
* What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? (Single or multi, Motorola, NDS, or SA/Cisco) _we don't use Cablecards_
* What channel numbers do you know to cause this? _have not been able to narrow it down_
* What is your geographic location? _Austin TX _
* Who is your provider?_Time Warner cable plus antenna for local channels_
* Do you have a tuning adapter?_no_

Getting frustrated having to reboot a few times a week to get access to my second tuner.


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

*bump* Let's not let this issue fall through the cracks...


----------



## bobcnn (Sep 16, 2000)

I'm about to give up on Tivo. I have to restart my machine 3 or 4 times a day, and I'm now missing about 60 percent of my season passes. I didnt buy the tivo (I have had about 6 or 7 of them over the past several years) and pay the monthly fee so I could watch the shows on the networks websites.


----------



## rossman66 (Apr 30, 2005)

I hoped that 11.0j might magically fix this Houston Comcast HD issue, but alas, it has not. I just got the software today. Restarted my Tivo Series 3 (after UT's disappointing lose to Iowa State) and the toxic channel issue still remains. I tuned to 662 (Travel HD) and the screen went black after ~30 seconds. I hope Tivo is still looking into this issue as it's quite annoying that we can't watch certain channels.


----------



## chaugner (Aug 23, 2004)

You last visited: 11-24-2004 at 06:28 PM

had to come back after all this time. Having the same exact problem. Just started happening in the last week or so.

- Tivo3 HD
- restarted, same problem
- re-installed cable cards, same problem
- it seems to happen around HGTV/FoodTV it seems, eventually the channels come back
- also had some problems with audio disappearing
- Location is Miami, Florida, Comcast of course

Went through all pages and pretty much can agree that its the same thing. Cable card menu issues, etc. Whatever has been said, I got it too.

Any idea on whats going on? comcast or tivo? seems to be funny that so many others recently starting having the same problems.


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

TiVo HD
No, analog channels seem to be working just fine
~60 seconds than the picture either locks up or the screen goes black
SA/Cisco M-Card
622, 644, 662 (all HD channels)
Houston, TX
Comcast
No

Thanks for looking into this for us. I'm out of ideas.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

This problem has been around for over two months now and no fix.


----------



## rossman66 (Apr 30, 2005)

For those in Houston with Comcast who are affected by this toxic channel issue (622, 644, 662) would you mind posting your zipcode and/or the area of Houston you live in? I might be stretching here, but I'm just trying to collect as much data as possible.

I live in 77007 near Washington and Shepherd.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

77005, Shepherd & Sunset

Also my son
77004, Almeda & Binz


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

77006 near Fairview and Waugh.


----------



## HcRUL (Sep 28, 2010)

77007 near Washington and I-10.


----------



## bobcnn (Sep 16, 2000)

Last night I had three recordings on the same network affiliate set to record back to back. Got up this morning, the first two had recorded, but the third one did not record, says channel wasnt available. When I click on any HD station, I get not available. This is getting very old.


----------



## lethcoeb (Apr 19, 2002)

77005 - Weslayan and Bellaire


----------



## cmbhou (Nov 2, 2010)

TivoJerry, I hope you are still out there listening to the Houstonians. You've got the list of our issues down. See my responses below to your questions:


Which platform are you experiencing this on? *Tivo HD*
Does it affect analog channels? *no*
How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? *Between 15 to 30 seconds - I've timed it several times and it is not consistent.*
What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? *Multi - Motorola*
What channel numbers do you know to cause this? *662 - Travel HD; 644 - E! HD; 622 - Cartoon HD*
What is your geographic location? *Houston, TX 77098 - near Shepherd and Alabama*
Who is your provider? *Comcast*
Do you have a tuning adapter? *No*



TiVoJerry said:


> Am I correct that this issue has the following symptoms for everyone?:
> 
> All LiveTV goes black, regardless of letterbox settings (no "grey")
> Tuning to a "toxic" channel causes it to occur
> ...


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

77007 - Washington near Waugh.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

bump


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

It has been 3 weeks since I've heard from Comcast so I asked for another update. They're sending out more techs again so we'll see where this goes...


----------



## Qwertinsky (Oct 24, 2006)

Still no definitive answers? It's getting to the point where I can't even watch TV anymore.


----------



## LMDA1 (Oct 7, 2008)

Yet another report here, this time in Miami. This started sometime back with random pixelation but has grown to where most HD channels are not viewable or recordable due to this. The Comcast HD-DVR box has zero problems in the same location.

Here's my feedback:

* Which platform are you experiencing this on? - TivoHD
* Does it affect analog channels? - No
* How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? - Varies but similar to other reports here
* What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? - Moto M
* What channel numbers do you know to cause this? - HD for HBO, Speed and others (400 range)
* What is your geographic location? - Miami (33178)
* Who is your provider? - Comcast
* Do you have a tuning adapter? - No


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

lmda1 sounds like you are having different issues than this thread. There are no pixelation issues. This just flat out locks up your tivo if you watch certain channels. It does not vary either.


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

Any official updates on this?


----------



## xultar (Jun 15, 2005)

OMG Guys. I'm having issues with a series 3. One Tuner works fine. The other, Grey screen.

How can I tell which is the one that isn't working? I'm a Tivo fan, but I swear tonight I'm about to dump it all and go with my Cable Provider's DVR. I am so sick of this mess I do not know what to do.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

I've been really busy the past month or so and haven't had much time to follow up on the Houston issue. I removed 622, 644 and 662 from my lineup so they can't be tuned without explicitly punching in the numbers. I also set season passes and wish lists to record on the SD counterparts and that has made things bearable.

I just talked to Mike from Comcast corporate (who called in response to a request for an update via the we_can_help email address) . Field techs were apparently working on this issue in my area the night before last but that doesn't seem to have resolved the matter. Mike stated that this issue is affecting the "inner loop area" though he did not clarify exactly what the boundaries were except that the Galleria area is a separate area and is not affected. I quickly glanced over supplied Houston zip codes/neighborhoods in this thread and those posts seem to corroborate Mike's statement. He stated that Comcast thought that this was a Tivo-specific issue but they have customers with cablecard-equipped TV's that are also experiencing this issue. They're still working on this noise issue and they do not have a definite ETA yet.


----------



## chrymsun (Dec 7, 2010)

I've been having similar issues that have been getting progressively worse. 80&#37; of season pass recordings are incomplete, usually cutting off in the first 60 secs to 15 minutes. All of the failed recordings were on HD channels. The stuttering/freezing is so bad that the HD channels are unwatchable, at least the ones I watch.

* All LiveTV goes black, regardless of letterbox settings (no "grey") - Yes
* Tuning to a "toxic" channel causes it to occur - Yes
* Previous recordings play back fine - Yes
* Recordings made during this time do not have video - Yes (Recordings are incomplete)
* It can be resolved by restarting or by pulling the cable feed - Restarting yes, not sure about pulling the cable feed. And by resolved, I mean the channel content comes back for 30 secs - 3 minutes before freezing. Again, only HD channels cause this.
* It can be avoid by removing all "bad" channels from the channel list and not tuning to them - not sure, haven't tried that
* CableCARD menus are not accessible while this is happening 


A few questions that I'd like to see as many responses on as possible:

* Which platform are you experiencing this on? TiVo HD + Extender + CableCard
* Does it affect analog channels? No
* How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? 30 secs - 3 minutes
* What type of CableCARD(s) do you have? Motorola
* What channel numbers do you know to cause this? 550 - USAHD, 551 - TNTHD
* What is your geographic location? Arlington, VA
* Who is your provider? Verizon FiOS
* Do you have a tuning adapter? No.

I've also been getting spontaneous reboots where the TiVo reboots itself. It then takes ~8 minutes to come back online. All hard drive tests via kickstart passed.


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

Looks like my issue is finally resolved. Comcast called to indicate that they did some line work over the weekend. I had no problems with 622, 644 or 662 during my lunch break yesterday. I left both tuners tuned to 2 of these stations and the Tivo HD was fine all afternoon.

If you're in the inner loop area in Houston you might want to check these channels to see if they're working properly for you.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

takeshi said:


> Looks like my issue is finally resolved. Comcast called to indicate that they did some line work over the weekend. I had no problems with 622, 644 or 662 during my lunch break yesterday. I left both tuners tuned to 2 of these stations and the Tivo HD was fine all afternoon.
> 
> If you're in the inner loop area in Houston you might want to check these channels to see if they're working properly for you.


I'll check it tonight. Thanks!


----------



## mhuffman (Oct 10, 2006)

I am having similar issues:

All LiveTV goes black, regardless of letterbox settings (no "grey") *- YES*
Tuning to a "toxic" channel causes it to occur*- YES*
Previous recordings play back fine*- YES*
Recordings made during this time do not have video*- HAVE NOT OBSERVED THIS*
It can be resolved by restarting or by pulling the cable feed*- MINE CAN BE RESOLVED BY TURNING THE TV OFF AND THEN BACK ON*
It can be avoid by removing all "bad" channels from the channel list and not tuning to them*- HAVEN'T TRIED THIS*
CableCARD menus are not accessible while this is happening*- YES*

Which platform are you experiencing this on? *Series3 w/11.0j*
Does it affect analog channels? *- ONLY SEEMS TO AFFECT CERTAIN HD CHANNELS*
How long does it take to happen once you've tuned to a "bad" channel? *- INTERMITTENT*
What type of CableCARD(s) do you have?* Multi, Motorola*
What channel numbers do you know to cause this?*- ESPN, FOX SPORTS WEST, TNT, SPIKE, MAYBE OTHERS*
What is your geographic location?*- LOS ANGELES, CA*
Who is your provider?*- TIME WARNER*
Do you have a tuning adapter?*- NO*


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

takeshi said:


> Looks like my issue is finally resolved. Comcast called to indicate that they did some line work over the weekend. I had no problems with 622, 644 or 662 during my lunch break yesterday. I left both tuners tuned to 2 of these stations and the Tivo HD was fine all afternoon.
> 
> *If you're in the inner loop area in Houston you might want to check these channels to see if they're working properly for you.*


All three work! Thanks for your perseverance on this. I tried EHD, TravelHD and ToonHD, and all three work for extended periods of time.

:up:

We can now let the other unrelated issue have this thread to itself.


----------



## cmbhou (Nov 2, 2010)

takeshi said:


> Looks like my issue is finally resolved. Comcast called to indicate that they did some line work over the weekend. I had no problems with 622, 644 or 662 during my lunch break yesterday. I left both tuners tuned to 2 of these stations and the Tivo HD was fine all afternoon.
> 
> If you're in the inner loop area in Houston you might want to check these channels to see if they're working properly for you.


This inner looper added all three channels back 2 days ago and I haven't had any trouble. Thanks takeshi for your persistance with Comcast! You have far more patience than I do!


----------



## mattld1 (Aug 17, 2010)

Everything works now for me too. Fantastic!


----------



## flqueenfan (Dec 31, 2010)

I bought my Tivo series 3 HD in February 2010 to replace my dying series 2 DT. Ever since that time, I have had "issues" with the dreaded black screen. Since roughly June, I have had my cable cards replaced 3 times (and have now switched from multistream to 2 single streams at the cable tech's suggestion), had 2 digital tuners, had my apartment rewired, and had the apartment building rewired. There is currently a 3 way split on my incoming line--one to the modem, one to the Tivo, and one to the bedroom. I don't know the numbers, but every tech swears the numbers are good. 
The longest stretch of time I've gone with no problems has been 2 weeks. The worst period was when I had to reboot every 20 minutes. In addition to the black screens on live tv (which don't correlate to a channel-it will do it on any channel, either analog (ie, below 100), digital or HD) I also get cable card errors. Brighthouse (formerly Time Warner) says it's Tivo's fault, TIvo says it's Brighthouse's fault. All I know is I shelled out a fair amount for what seems to be rather expensive paperweight at this point. 
Any tips you can give me would helpful.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Do you use a tuning adapter (for SDV channels)? There is a well known failure-to-tune problem with tuning adapters that results in a black screen but no error message. A workaround cure is to tune-up, tune-down once (or 2 or 3 times). This problem occurs only on the SDV channels. TiVo is aware of it and could fix it with software tuning retries but so far no comment from them.

If it isn't that problem, I'm afraid you're between a rock and a hard place. IMHO it's most likely a cable system problem but it's also possible that it's a TiVo problem. Your Tivo is still in warranty and I think you should be able to get a new (or refurbished) one for about $50. 

An interesting data set would be the signal strength over a number of channels spanning the cable bandwidth. You can get this in DVR diagnostics. Make a little list of Frequency and Signal Strength from a number of channels. You want to sample frequencies to span the range from about 200,000 KHz to 800,000 KHz (or 200 MHz to 800 MHz). Ideally all the signal strengths should be in the range 80 to 99. If a lot of them are below 80 that's too low. If a lot of them are 100 (the largest possble number) you could have excessive signal strength, which can cause problems too.


----------



## flqueenfan (Dec 31, 2010)

dlfl said:


> Do you use a tuning adapter (for SDV channels)? There is a well known failure-to-tune problem with tuning adapters that results in a black screen but no error message. A workaround cure is to tune-up, tune-down once (or 2 or 3 times). This problem occurs only on the SDV channels.


I'm sorry, I should have said tuning adapter rather than digital tuner. I was told I have to have this because of the switch channels. Is that what SDV means? I have tried changing channels, up and down, but that never helps. The longest it took was 30 minutes to tune a channel. I get the black screen on all channels, though, not just SDV channels.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

flqueenfan said:


> I'm sorry, I should have said tuning adapter rather than digital tuner. I was told I have to have this because of the switch channels. Is that what SDV means? I have tried changing channels, up and down, but that never helps. The longest it took was 30 minutes to tune a channel. I get the black screen on all channels, though, not just SDV channels.


Yes, SDV = Switched Digital Video

But it doesn't sound like SDV tuning failure is your problem.

Maybe the signal strength data will indicate a signal problem, which you and your cable co can work on. Otherwise, I don't know anything to suggest other than a new TiVo. Don't wait too long to go for the warranty replacement. I think the price goes up considerably after one year.


----------



## flqueenfan (Dec 31, 2010)

Ok, I tested 4 channels, 2 standards, 1 SDV, and 1 HD. 
The lowest frequency was 573 MHz, the highest (on the SDV) was 777MHz. 
The SNR was 37-38dB on each. 
Signal strength on all was right at 100. I wonder if when the cable co was "fixing" everything they made the signal so strong after the split that it's hurting my Tivo, though that wouldn't explain the issues before the rewiring. 
Seriously, I'm at the point of giving up, telling Brighthouse they win, but that they're going to give me enough credits to pay me back for the Tivo since it's their fault I can't use it.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

flqueenfan said:


> Ok, I tested 4 channels, 2 standards, 1 SDV, and 1 HD.
> The lowest frequency was 573 MHz, the highest (on the SDV) was 777MHz.
> The SNR was 37-38dB on each.
> Signal strength on all was right at 100. I wonder if when the cable co was "fixing" everything they made the signal so strong after the split that it's hurting my Tivo, though that wouldn't explain the issues before the rewiring.
> Seriously, I'm at the point of giving up, telling Brighthouse they win, but that they're going to give me enough credits to pay me back for the Tivo since it's their fault I can't use it.


You didn't really cover the low end of the cable frequencies (200-550 MHz) in your data but the ones you did cover indicate you may have too much signal. The 37-38 dB SNR's suggest this. I would try some attenuation (or see if BH will do anything about it -- probably difficult but maybe worth a try).
Two ways for you to investigate this:
1. (Best way) Insert in-line attenuators. These are inexpensive. They are about an inch long and a little fatter than your cable. I would get an assortment of 3, 6 and 10 dB. Start with the 10 dB. If that makes the signal too weak, try the 6 or 3 dB. 
http://www.smarthome.com/_/ProductResults.aspx?Ntt=coax attenuator
It has happened that cable cos would actually furnish the in-line attenuators.

2. Since the in-line attenuators may have to be ordered via internet, a more immediate method is to insert a 3:1 splitter. But this will only give 5 or 6 dB attenuation, and some of them screw up the SDV upstream communication, so they should be put only between your TA and the TiVo input. Their only advantage is they are available locally. Ideally, the unused taps should have "matched loads" put on them.

Go into Tuning Adapter diagnostics, Status Summary, Next Page and look at:
Tuner, FDC and RDC signal levels (the dBmV numbers). What are they?


----------



## flqueenfan (Dec 31, 2010)

dlfl said:


> Go into Tuning Adapter diagnostics, Status Summary, Next Page and look at:
> Tuner, FDC and RDC signal levels (the dBmV numbers). What are they?


For ABC HD (ch 1011), Tuner is 7dBmV, FDC is -2 dBmV, and RDC is 41 dBmV. 
For Military Channel (169 which is an SDV), it's 6, -2, 41.

I'll see if BH can bring a larger splitter Monday and check out Radio Shack for an attenuator.

As to the low end frequencies, where would I find those? I chose a network channel (ABC, ch. 11), USA, Military History, and ABC HD for my channel data.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

flqueenfan said:


> For ABC HD (ch 1011), Tuner is 7dBmV, FDC is -2 dBmV, and RDC is 41 dBmV.
> For Military Channel (169 which is an SDV), it's 6, -2, 41.
> 
> I'll see if BH can bring a larger splitter Monday and check out Radio Shack for an attenuator.
> ...


Your dBmV values are all within acceptable ranges. The FDC and RDC are the "forward" and "return" signals used by the TA to communicate with the cable plant. These are on fixed frequencies and it makes sense they would be identical levels for the two channels you checked. The tuner values are actually the values that translate to the signal strength readings in DVR diagnostics and they will vary somewhat with frequency (channel). 6 and 7 dBmV is on the high side (consistent with your all-100 readings) although the acceptable range is believed to be -8 to +8.

Just trying different channels is the only way I know to find frequencies below 550 MHz.

Another signal problem that can occur is excessive "tilt", which is when the strength varies too much betwen low and high frequencies. Tilt has to be minimized by the cable co over a neighborhood and it can also be introduced by a bad or unmatched-loaded splitter (or of course by a bad attenuator).

Anyway the bottom line is you need to get all your signal strengths between 80 and 99, although some channels can be slightly greater than 100 without causing a problem -- but the trick is to convince yourself they are only slightly above 100 since the "meter" pegs there. Probably 30% of my channels are pegged at 100, but I've done enough experimentation with attenuators to know they are only slightly above. I had to do this to get all my channels above 80, apparently because of the tilt at my location.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

5 months and nothing is fixed. THE IS BS!


----------



## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

badm0j069 said:


> 5 months and nothing is fixed. THE IS BS!


Have you contacted Comcast about this or are you just expecting the issue to be resolved? The inner loop issue was a Comcast issue and not a Tivo issue. What part of the city are you in?

It took quite a bit of persistence to get Comcast to even acknowledge the issue. The standard signal tests their techs perform apparently isn't sufficient. I wish I recalled what they had to do to determine the problem to relay to you. I'd suggest regularly emailing we_can_help until the matter is resolved in your area.


----------



## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

I'd get a black scrren for at least 5 minutes when attempting to biew a recorded program. or it would fail to start playback all together


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

I do live inside the loop. Not sure what issue is fixed. I will try adding the channels to see if it locks up. We got a bunch of new channels today. All the channels are black for me though.


----------



## badm0j069 (Sep 6, 2007)

Seems it is not locking up anymore.


----------

