# DirecTV - TIVO Functionality ... neutered?



## oregondean (Dec 4, 2002)

This box does not play YouTube, PPV Direct Cinema, or support DTV's Whole Home DVR service. Sounds pretty neutered to me.

FWIW, I do not use any of these services enough for it to be a bother to me, but a modern day box that cannot do these basic things implies very poor DTV integration. 

I use the eSATA port on the DTV HD box for a very large external drive and while the new TIVO box has an eSATA port I am worried it may not even allow for expansion. 

I miss my TIVO but chose to go HD. I think I'll wait until a few of you early adopters see what else is missing and perhaps what might be unexpected feature additions before I buy.

What do you think?


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## dirk1843 (Jul 7, 2003)

Even with all it's "neutered" features, in the end, they are just EXTRAS to what this box was always built to do, be the best DVR out there. Period.

Unless it does something radically wrong in that department, it will be one of the family that produces the best DVRs.

Extras are nice, and there are a couple I would miss....such as Pandora and NetFlix, but nothing could be taken off a TiVo platform that would overshadow the one huge positive, it is still the best DVR our there.

YMMV


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## mleland (Jul 30, 2002)

And you get to pay 5$ a month more for the opportunity to have that Tivo DVR without some of the features available on the DTV HD DVR.

Checking my account on DTV,com I would pay 199$ for the unit + 6$ a month lease fee(as you can't own it!) + 5$ a month tivo feature fee. 

If you are totally in love with the tivo interface then you will be happy. I guess. 

I just can't justify 5$ a month beyond everything else to get a DVR that does less than what I have now. If it at least did MRV I would probably get one. It wouldn't even have to work with the DTV flavor of MRV. 

YMMV


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## oregondean (Dec 4, 2002)

dirk1843 said:


> Even with all it's "neutered" features, in the end, they are just EXTRAS to what this box was always built to do, be the best DVR out there. Period.


Best at what? ... I've got great HD, DirectTV service, a user interface I have adjusted to, and an expanded external drive. The only thing I am missing is TIVO - and yes TIVO is awesome (perhaps even awesome enough on its own to overcome the other limitations when I make a buy/no buy decision).

My question/concern, however, is why several years after the first DTV HD boxes is basic DTV functionality not there? It's not rocket science to port code and semiconductors from one box to the next. TIVO is software, not hardware - this box apparently is not built on a DV platform. Looks like a very poor TIVI/DTV partnership to me. We've been down this path before.

This "new" box appears to have dead end expandability to integrate into a full DTV experience.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

oregondean said:


> My question/concern, however, is why several years after the first DTV HD boxes is basic DTV functionality not there? It's not rocket science to port code and semiconductors from one box to the next. TIVO is software, not hardware - this box apparently is not built on a DV platform. Looks like a very poor TIVI/DTV partnership to me. We've been down this path before.


DirecTV specified what features this box would have and what hardware it would run on. Even when DirecTV and TiVo were closer partners DirecTV always excluded features that were included in other TiVo products. DirecTV excluded most of the networking features from the original boxes in the same way.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

nrc said:


> DirecTV specified what features this box would have and what hardware it would run on.


Yes. Absolutely. However (and this may seem to contradict what I have said elsewhere), I'm not claiming that Tivo had no voice on the subject of _all_features, and I do believe they may have been negative on one or more of them. But for what I, and most, regard as the important stuff, and definitely on accessing programs from other household Tivos or DVRs and "to go," I've seen no evidence, none, zero, that Tivo is responsible for the crippling.

DirecTV says they (DirecTV) set the specs. DirecTV clearly tells key audiences that it's their (DirecTV's) box and that Tivo follows their orders.

I'm NOT arguing with you. Some people tonight seem to think I'm arguing. I'm just saying, here, that Tivo seems to have had some input, however minor, on _some_ features.


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## dirk1843 (Jul 7, 2003)

oregondean said:


> Best at what? ... I've got great HD, DirectTV service, a user interface I have adjusted to, and an expanded external drive. The only thing I am missing is TIVO - and yes TIVO is awesome (perhaps even awesome enough on its own to overcome the other limitations when I make a buy/no buy decision).
> 
> My question/concern, however, is why several years after the first DTV HD boxes is basic DTV functionality not there? It's not rocket science to port code and semiconductors from one box to the next. TIVO is software, not hardware - this box apparently is not built on a DV platform. Looks like a very poor TIVI/DTV partnership to me. We've been down this path before.
> 
> This "new" box appears to have dead end expandability to integrate into a full DTV experience.


You said it yourself.....what you are missing is TiVo.

It isn't one feature or menu. It is the basic DVR user experience that TiVo somehow managed to get pretty much 100% dead on the first time, everyone has been playing catch-up since.

However, the fact that they have the best DVR out there, dosen't mean they have a product that is 100% marketable. Boxes with cheaper or no monthly fees have flooded the market.

Are they good enough for me, no. For most people.....yes it seems.

To each his own....lots of people balk at paying a monthly fee to TiVo to "watch tv". I refuse to pay a 100+ cellphone bill to "talk on the phone".


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

dirk1843 said:


> To each his own....lots of people balk at paying a monthly fee to TiVo to "watch tv". I refuse to pay a 100+ cellphone bill to "talk on the phone".


Very well put. :up:


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

What does the new tivo do that my HDVR2 did not do? well I will give you HD. but I think I would rather have Tivo Web/ MRV than HD.


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## GKevinK (Mar 10, 2003)

Aside from the now standard TiVo features that DirecTV is afraid of letting them include (so their homebrew concoction won't look bad in comparison)... the thing that concerns me is whether the new compression format will also make other standard features (like slow motion or the 30 second jump) also unusable. Oh how I wish that they didn't have a monopoly on the NFL out-of-market broadcasts.


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

DTV has held us hostage for 3 years since the original announcement of DTV & TIVO "working together again". A joke! DTV has raped TIVO and put out a product that is missing key features of the DTV DVRs. I belive this is a deliberate attempt by DTV to make TIVO look bad so customers start praising their DVRs. Think about it, why else would DTV release the HR34 on the same day? They have no interest in providing a quality TIVO product (and at a premium price). And remember, this "new" DTV TIVO is actually a DTV DVR running TIVO software, so it will most likely be just as sluggish as the HR22. I can't imagine why TIVO is so desperate to agree to this. Only the DTV version of TIVO is missing key features. Look at other TIVO products, the Premiere, XL, and Elite. They offer most of DTV's features. The Premiere Elite is very comperable to the HR34. I am a long time DTV customer, who is probably going to finally drop DTV. I will get a Premiere Elite, and a couple of Premieres. And I will own the equipment. With that I will have most of what DTV has, including multi-room viewing, an iPad app,, and lots of online content (Netflix, Amazon Instant Video, Hulu Plus, BLOCKBUSTER On Demand), but at about a $30 a month savings over DTV. YES, unfortunately, it will be cable.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

. . . And Michale White's utter UNenthusiastic and even indirect diminishing comments regarding his coming DVR's and DirecTiVo product. Even the comparison chart on the DirecTV page that is supposed to tout the new DirecTiVo has the effect of making the new TiVo product appear easily inferior to DirecTV's DVR's. Only an attitude of sabotage could explain that inappropriate comparison chart. Please, check it out yourself and see if you don't think it isn't designed to shy you AWAY from TiVo and on to DirecTV's new Media Center or Whole Home DVR's.

If DirecTV really wanted to support the TiVo, it could have put all the TiVo deficiencies next to an asterisk at the bottom of the page in small type, like they and others, including TiVo, do. .


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

Davisadm said:


> I can't imagine why TIVO is so desperate to agree to this.


Not desperate, just incompetent. This is not your father's Tivo, Inc (and even then it had problems). Today it's lawyers and smiles and old technology that's good only because nobody's been quite able to catch up.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Davisadm said:


> DTV has held us hostage for 3 years since the original announcement of DTV & TIVO "working together again". A joke! DTV has raped TIVO and put out a product that is missing key features of the DTV DVRs. I belive this is a deliberate attempt by DTV to make TIVO look bad so customers start praising their DVRs. ....


Wow. Really???


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## Cabinwood (Mar 11, 2000)

I have been waiting a long long time for another HDTivo, but without the Whole Home DVR won't even think about it. This is such a disappointment to me :down:


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Wil said:


> Not desperate, just incompetent. This is not your father's Tivo, Inc (and even then it had problems). Today it's lawyers and smiles and old technology that's good only because nobody's been quite able to catch up.


And yet, as the other poster pointed out, TiVo's own retail products remain arguably superior to DTVs. A company with no other means of support has been able to remain the best DVR in the market for over a decade. This, in the face of competition from companies many times their size. Not bad for a bunch of incompetent lawyers.

TiVo made a deal with DirecTV in good faith because they prefer to offer a product rather than just collect license fees. Given their experience with Comcast they had the sense to put a few more guarantees in the deal. I suspect that the deadlines and guarantees that were included are the only reason we're seeing a product now.

I suspect that DirecTV has been dragging its feet every step of the way. Now having met their minimum obligations, I expect that they will offer TiVo another amendment to the deal to postpone a full national release (which will carry additional obligations for promotion) in return for a new deal. They'll ask TiVo to restart the development cycle for another product (which they'll make sure remains crippled relative to their own products) in return for postponing the national launch.

It's funny that DirecTV fans, many of whom landed with DirecTV because they hated their evil cable companies, seem to be reveling the DirecTV's bad faith dealing and disdain for offering their customers the best possible product.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

DirectTV tossed you guys a bone and you are spitting it up.

Having been a very big TiVo fan in the past I've checked in here from time to time to see what is gong on. Everyone seemed to be enraptured with interface and they had to have it regardless of the the other options. So, now it comes out and it does not do everything the "other" D box does --but it does have the prized TiVo interface, and what do I see---complaints. I recall reading many many comments about how just as longs as it had the TiVo interface everyone would be happy, well I guess not.

Sure, D could have made it compatible with it's other receivers, that would have been nice, but for what ever reason they decided not to -- it's their company, their decision. I pulled the plug on my last HR10-250 a year ago and it had been sitting there in the rack for a year and I never used it, I guess I was able to move on. Quiet honestly, I really fail to see just what is so captivating about the TiVo interface, yes it was well done, but so is the new HD guide on the D units. Sure it's a different look and feel, but everything changes, does you current TV have vertical and horizontal hold controls, fine tuning? Do you miss those?

My point? Take the olive branch D gave to the very small subset of sub's and be happy with it, but don't expect more or better, at this point it is what it is.


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## squiddog (Feb 5, 2002)

I hate the DTV interface on their standard and HD DVRs so much, I'll be happy with Tivo. I'll be happy to pay the $5 a month for their service too, as I want to REWARD a good company that pays attention to details. 

I ordered my DTV TIVO on the 8th. I found out about the release a few days before when I was ordering an HD DVR for another room in the house. 

The DTV TIVO replaces a Hughes SD-DVR40 that I've had for years.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Matt L said:


> My point? Take the olive branch D gave to the very small subset of sub's and be happy with it, but don't expect more or better, at this point it is what it is.


QED. You'll take what DirecTV gives you and be happy with it. ...or like me you could just pull the plug on cable from the sky and enjoy a full featured TiVo experience with some other programming provider.

Some DirecTV fans are reacting to this product like pod people who have discovered an intruder in their midst.


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## squiddog (Feb 5, 2002)

nrc said:


> QED. You'll take what DirecTV gives you and be happy with it. ...or like me you could just pull the plug on cable from the sky and enjoy a full featured TiVo experience with some other programming provider.
> 
> Some DirecTV fans are reacting to this product like pod people who have discovered an intruder in their midst.


So, let's say my only other programming provider is Comcast cable. And, like many other people in California, I'd been scr*wed over many times by Comcast with horrible cable service and horrible customer service.

While I know that the digital service of today is nothing like the standard analog service of years ago, I *refuse* to put any more money into Comcast's pocket. Ever. That's why I switched to DIRECTV in around 1999 and haven't looked back.

I'm glad you can get a better Tivo experience than I can. But that's no reason to p*ss in my Cheerios.


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

Hopefully down the road, D* will have the HR24 ported with the TiVo operating system.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

BOBCAT said:


> Hopefully down the road, D* will have the HR24 ported with the TiVo operating system.


Unlikely. Unless the THR22 sells like hotcakes.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

nrc said:


> TiVo's own retail products remain arguably superior to DTVs. A company with no other means of support has been able to remain the best DVR in the market for over a decade. This, in the face of competition from companies many times their size. Not bad for a bunch of incompetent lawyers.


I was about to respond, rightfully, that I never called Tivo's lawyers incompetent. But thinking over the DISH case, yeah they are. Salvaged a minor (but admittedly very significant) victory from a slam dunk annihilation of DISH because they were cowed and let Charlie control the agenda in the face of a weak judge.

Other than that, I agree 100% with everything you said in that post; a good summary.


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

I would be curious if this box supports the TiVo slide remote.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

No compatibility with TiVo remotes.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Without Whole Home DVR the new DirecTiVo is a non starter for me. I much prefer the TiVo interface and I love the TiVo guide, but those features are not enough for me to give up Whole Home DVR. I've got three HR24s and I love being able to watch my recorded programs in any room without having to set up multiple recordings. That said, I still use my lifetimed S3 for OTA.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

You could enable TIVO with all the missing features and I'm still not sold that I would like it better then my current HR20's.


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## ChristopherLee (Jun 11, 2003)

My R10 Tivo had a screen of categories to narrow a search after calling up the Search by Title. I used the "Movies" to narrow title search all the time. Now there is no such narrowing, just a search among all titles, which was the selection "All" on my R10. What happened?


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## sansom (Mar 14, 2010)

I have surrendered any ecitement for Tivo products long ago. I made my move from a Series 1 to a shiny new Sony SVR3000 with Lifetime Sub back in 2002. After that was my first DirecTivo's, and finally my Series 3 HD Tivo. 

So with just about a decade of Tivo in my home, I'm now intimately familiar with being 'teased'.

Teased with the promise of a truely digital media hub. I actually paid for the HME update, before Tivo decided to start giving it away for free.

First they brought out music and photo streaming. I was VERY into that! Then they rolled out shared video between Tivo's and between Tivo's and a computer. BUT, and that's a big but, this wasn't true streaming, but more or less transferring the video file over. Also extemely limited video codec support. Still, this was an enticing start!

The problem was, it want a start. Tivo never expanded this. Tivo never tried to become the digital HUB it could have been. DLNA comes along, and practically hands Tivo the way and means to be a hub, but does Tivo bite? Nope. Not a DLNA server, nor a client. Support for WMV, MKV, AVI? Nope. True video streaming from my PC to the Tivo? Nope. Interoperability with standards? Nope. 

Now they're showing a concept of a central Tivo, and remote client boxes, but will this be a consumer option? Nope, just cable companies. 

Tried of waiting, tired of being teased.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

I just don't get the enamor with the centralized hub setup. A unified playlist with unified scheduling is a much better option. If you only have 1 box in your house that records everything and that box fails, you're looking at nothing recording while you wait for your box to be replaced. You've also lost 100% of your recordings. Spread that all out over multiple boxes and your loss is much less.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

:up::up:

Amen, brother. With a decentralized solution, when one device - any device - fails, the loss of functionality is limited to that one component.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

Have to agree. The only thing missing on the HR2x series boxes at the moment is unified scheduling, and I bet that shows up soon. The HR2x boxes will stream pictures and music and a few other new neat tricks. If you are enamored with the TiVo interface fine, but the HR2x are marching forward with stuff the DTivo wont get anytime soon if at all.


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## oddballmkg (Dec 19, 2011)

I think what people are failing to see about the difference with the TiVo and HR receivers, is how people are using them. For me, I prefer to just use season passes, wish lists and key words over using the guide to find programs to record. I do not want to spend time reading though an extremely slow program guide full of ad&#8217;s to find what I may want to watch. Or to do a search and have to use key word filters just to get rid of all the pay per view stuff. If you use season passes, the 50 season pass limit is a pain to deal with on the HR receivers no matter how creative you get with the keywords. I want a DVR that records what I ask it too and that can tell the difference between first run and a re-run along with not recording channels that are not in my cable package including the Spanish channels, PPV or VOD . I do not care about the 3D video, YouTube or multiple room viewing. What good does it do to have a DVR with multiple room viewing, 3D viewing etc if it fails to simply record what is in your keywords list, or records the same two channels at the same time, or the records the same programs over and over? To me the HR receivers have never been fully finished DIRECTV has spent more time adding features to the receiver and not any time on improving on ability to just record programs reliably. I just started to use the Direct HD TiVo again after two years of being suck with a HR23. So far all the audio drop outs I was getting are gone. (Yes I know it&#8217;s repackaged HR20 but the TiVo software has fixed the audio problems for me) The only thing I miss over the HR23 is the commercial skip. I do not miss the slow response times, or the way the guide jump around from the top to the bottom when you delete a show, or having to reset the unit because it lock up again, or being suck with 50 season pass limits.


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## wgoose26 (May 20, 2005)

ok -- i apologize for my obtuseness but i've been reading these threads and am a little confused.

I have a D*TV HR22 on a single HD TV, still running the same old crap guide. I live in New Jersey in the Philadelphia market. Is this box to be updated with the new User Interface? Should I have been part of the Philadelphia rollout? Is there something i need to do to get it to update?

thanks to anyone who can clear up my issues. ( I want to see what i can get before ordering the new HDTivo.)


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

wgoose26 said:


> ok -- i apologize for my obtuseness but i've been reading these threads and am a little confused.
> 
> I have a D*TV HR22 on a single HD TV, still running the same old crap guide. I live in New Jersey in the Philadelphia market. Is this box to be updated with the new User Interface? Should I have been part of the Philadelphia rollout? Is there something i need to do to get it to update?
> 
> thanks to anyone who can clear up my issues. ( I want to see what i can get before ordering the new HDTivo.)


There's nothing you need to do. When it's your box's turn, it will get the new HD user interface software.


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## Matt L (Aug 13, 2000)

oddballmkg said:


> I think what people are failing to see about the difference with the TiVo and HR receivers, is how people are using them. For me, I prefer to just use season passes, wish lists and key words over using the guide to find programs to record. I do not want to spend time reading though an extremely slow program guide full of ad's to find what I may want to watch. Or to do a search and have to use key word filters just to get rid of all the pay per view stuff. If you use season passes, the 50 season pass limit is a pain to deal with on the HR receivers no matter how creative you get with the keywords. I want a DVR that records what I ask it too and that can tell the difference between first run and a re-run along with not recording channels that are not in my cable package including the Spanish channels, PPV or VOD . I do not care about the 3D video, YouTube or multiple room viewing. What good does it do to have a DVR with multiple room viewing, 3D viewing etc if it fails to simply record what is in your keywords list, or records the same two channels at the same time, or the records the same programs over and over? To me the HR receivers have never been fully finished DIRECTV has spent more time adding features to the receiver and not any time on improving on ability to just record programs reliably. I just started to use the Direct HD TiVo again after two years of being suck with a HR23. So far all the audio drop outs I was getting are gone. (Yes I know it's repackaged HR20 but the TiVo software has fixed the audio problems for me) The only thing I miss over the HR23 is the commercial skip. I do not miss the slow response times, or the way the guide jump around from the top to the bottom when you delete a show, or having to reset the unit because it lock up again, or being suck with 50 season pass limits.


Wow, my Hr2x experience is diametrically opposite of yours. My boxes only record first run, can't recall the last time it messed that up. Searches work fine to find a program, no reason to search through the guide, though it does have a very TiVo like option for searching. If you just to hit left in the guide then hit info it will display everything that will be on for the next two weeks on that channel --just like tivo. All my boxes are connected optically to DD receivers and I have not had ANY audio dropouts in quite some time.

I probably have 100 season passes and keyword search spread over 3 HR units and being networked they are all available for viewing anywhere I have a box, with the addition of "suggestions" I think the HR2s are getting more Tivo like, though they don't record the suggestions-yet.


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## Athenian (Jan 14, 2004)

Kablemodem said:


> Without Whole Home DVR the new DirecTiVo is a non starter for me.


Each household has its own priorities. We spent 14 months on AT&T and definitely appreciated the Whole Home Feature. We just came back to DirecTV last week and got one HR24 and one DirecTiVo; which means we can't get Whole Home DVR service. Nevertheless, if the DirecTiVo supported 3D, we would have gotten two because to us, ease of use far outweighs the occasional need to see a program on the other machine.

And FWIW, We all *hate* the cluncky DirecTV remotes. After using the peanut for 8 years and the ATT for another year, the Direct remote is definitely a step backwards. It's awkward for smaller hands and impossible to see in the dark. When are they going to upgrade that?


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Athenian said:


> ....
> 
> And FWIW, We all *hate* the cluncky DirecTV remotes. After using the peanut for 8 years and the ATT for another year, the Direct remote is definitely a step backwards. It's awkward for smaller hands and impossible to see in the dark. When are they going to upgrade that?


You can use the new THR22 Tivo remote with your DirecTV equipment.


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## Athenian (Jan 14, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> You can use the new THR22 Tivo remote with your DirecTV equipment.


We don't have enough THR22 remotes for the THR22, let alone extras for the DirecTV DVR and receiver. I have six old TiVo remotes and am using 3 of the 4 extra DirecTV remotes we had. I would love it iif we could get 5 THR22 remotes and get rid of all these awful DirecTV remotes but I don't think that's possible right now.


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

I was able to place an order with D* for a THR22 remote.
I made it very clear that I wanted the THR22 peanut remote. 
The CSR said that that is what she was able to order. 
Will post here and let everyone know if that is what I get.


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## ChristopherLee (Jun 11, 2003)

BOBCAT said:


> I was able to place an order with D* for a THR22 remote.
> I made it very clear that I wanted the THR22 peanut remote.
> The CSR said that that is what she was able to order.
> Will post here and let everyone know if that is what I get.


How much did they charge?


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

Sense I bought 2 THR22's, they waved the charge for the remote.


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## ChristopherLee (Jun 11, 2003)

Looks like the THR22 Tivo remote is getting up on the Directv website now. Yesterday it was not there. Today it is there without a picture, but says picture coming soon. They list it as the "TiVo RF Remote" and they are charging $25.00. I'll wait till the picture is there to be sure.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

ChristopherLee said:


> Looks like the THR22 Tivo remote is getting up on the Directv website now. Yesterday it was not there. Today it is there without a picture, but says picture coming soon. They list it as the "TiVo RF Remote" and they are charging $25.00. I'll wait till the picture is there to be sure.


Yep, that's it.


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## feldon23 (Mar 13, 2001)

We've now had years to get used to the DirecTV HR20's, and they fixed most of the performance and operational problems to where, other than the annoying interface, an HR2x is functionally similar to a TiVo, plut it has features the TiVo doesn't have. I have grown satisfied with the HR2x and don't find it to be missing anything.

The HR22 and THR22 are the same hardware, just different software. There's no reason for the TiVo not to fully support all DirecTV functionality at this point. After reading the PDF at the _other_ site which fairly but critically reviewed the THR22, basically you're paying extra for the UI and lose a lot of what the new TiVos do.


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

The one thing that I miss is the PIP when viewing the guide.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

And yet some people, including my wife, hate the picture-in-guide. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

stevel said:


> And yet some people, including my wife, hate the picture-in-guide. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.


I don't mind it in the guide, but I hate it in the Now Playing list. I don't want to hear the score of a game or the final reveal of a drama I'm recording.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

BOBCAT said:


> The one thing that I miss is the PIP when viewing the guide.


That may be the main reason I would get the THR22. I also hate the PIP or PIG or what ever its called. But until I know for sure the THR22 supports 30 second skip, I'll wait.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

dirk1843 said:


> You said it yourself.....what you are missing is TiVo.
> 
> It isn't one feature or menu. It is the basic DVR user experience that TiVo somehow managed to get pretty much 100% dead on the first time, everyone has been playing catch-up since.
> 
> ...


The D* users are missing standard TiVo features including MRV, NetFlix, Podcasts, Vidcasts, Amazon VoD, soon Amazon streaming, Pandora, a couple of other lesser online services, the full TiVo UI and more + better PQ on most services. But the logic is that since the D*-castrated TiVo doesn't do that it's TiVo's fault.

Take the red pill.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

bpratt said:


> That may be the main reason I would get the THR22. I also hate the PIP or PIG or what ever its called. But until I know for sure the THR22 supports 30 second skip, I'll wait.


That was a concern for me too, and no, it doesn't look like there is any way to enable a 30 second skip. But the FF itself works much better than the D* units, so that's a positive.

Even with no 30 second skip, I'm extremely happy.


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## patty1955 (Dec 15, 2011)

Even without the skip, I'm happy I'm back with Tivo.Unlimited season passes (rather than a 50 show limit), no lag in menus or playback, a search that keeps up with my letters, etc make it worth it to me. I still miss being able to search or program while watching a show, but I'll live.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

Trick play has always been better on Tivo than anything DirecTV ever created. I'm still using an HR10-250 for a lot of OTA shows that I watch and much prefer it to the HR2x series.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

FWIW,

I have two SD DirecTiVo boxes in our RV. We travel full time and must use satellite. I miss my Series 3 boxes. 

Now the really bad news for DirecTV HRXX boxes. They do not have MRV. They have box to box streaming. And of course the new TiVo interface does not have either. 

I have had to make a decision since one of my old SD units was failing. I was thrilled to see that the TiVo interface was finally back on DirecTV. Then came the bad news. It is a stripped down version of TiVo. Some of the sizzle but none of the taste. Lack of MRV is a stone killer. And lack of trick play is just plain dumb. 

So I started looking at the Rupert boxes as I call them the HRXX series from DirecTV. Crippled in one way or another vis a vis a real TiVo. 

So I bit the bullet and found a refurb DSR704. Transferred programs we wanted archived to the other unit (cannot do that with a Rupert box). Used TivoWeb to copy and paste all the season passes from both boxes (we had some duplicates to be sure the better unit recorded in case of pixelization on the failing unit.) There is no way to do this other than pen and paper with the Rupert boxes. 

Took the drive from the failing unit, installed it in the refurb, called up DirecTV and had it activated, waited overnight and installed all the season passes again. Good to go. 

There is just no way to do any of this with a Rupert Box. 

So now I just have to wait until the "community" finds a way to enable proper TiVo usefulness on the THR22. They have been able to do it on all other TiVo boxes so why not this one? Perhaps there is so much Rupert in the base box that even good software cannot run properly. Just like a dadgum MAC. Too proprietary.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Jerry_K said:


> FWIW,
> 
> ....
> 
> Now the really bad news for DirecTV HRXX boxes. They do not have MRV. They have box to box streaming. .....


What's the difference between multi-room viewing and "box to box streaming"?


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

litzdog911 said:


> What's the difference between multi-room viewing and "box to box streaming"?


On a real TiVo DVR you select a program from say Unit 1 which you wish to watch on Unit 2. The program is duplicated on Unit 2. You can watch it as it transfers. The transfer speed is always faster than the time it takes to view so trick play works almost immediately.

Streaming just plays the Unit one program on the Unit 2 display. The program is not on both units when you are done. You cannot move programs you want to keep from a full DVR to a less full DVR. And if as in my case yesterday a unit is puking you cannot archive the programs on the puking DVR to another DVR as I did with my DirecTiVos.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

netringer said:


> The D* users are missing standard TiVo features including MRV, NetFlix, Podcasts, Vidcasts, Amazon VoD, soon Amazon streaming, Pandora, a couple of other lesser online services, the full TiVo UI and more + better PQ on most services. But the logic is that since the D*-castrated TiVo doesn't do that it's TiVo's fault.
> 
> Take the red pill.


lets see

MRV - funny have a HR34 and 5 directtv dvrs, can watch a program that was recorded on the hr34 on any of the other 5 units
Netflix / amazon vod - have cinemadirect, light years better and more of the current movies, tried trial subscriptions of both and found both to be severly lacking in first run movies.
Amazon streaming, pandora not a big issue, my iphone does both and when docked sounds a lot better
PQ? have seen them side by side on the same tv's at the same time at a authorized installer's showroom, see no difference
Windows 3.0 interface - can definately live without that, the new HD-GUI puts everything to shame
350 series links are more then enough for my family of 5
If I want to see a HR10-250 interface will go out to the garage and turn that one on

Sorry this unit is exactly what tivo users wanted - a HR10-250 with Mpeg 4, years ago when the project was started by tivo they got the latest hardware technology platform available and it took them years to have it hit the market


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

sjberra said:


> lets see
> 
> (Yeah. That long and still partial list of features not there is correct but I don't need them, blah blah, blah...)
> 
> Sorry this unit is exactly what tivo users wanted - a HR10-250 with Mpeg 4, years ago when the project was started by tivo they got the latest hardware technology platform available and it took them years to have it hit the market


Sure. It's _TiVo_ that took years to deliver it, not DirecTV dragging it out forever. TiVo knows full well how to build the box. You can bet the time was spent getting the requirements from D* - mostly on what it couldn't do - and the brian damaged specs that D* came up with after they figured they could just steal the Rupert box from what they thought they learned from TiVo.

TiVo *is shipping* a DVR with those features and 4 live tuners *now*. All 4 tuners even work when it's raining, too. And you can buy one and set it up and cancel service the next day and not owe $450, because they're very sure their product doesn't suck.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

netringer said:


> Sure. It's _TiVo_ that took years to deliver it, not DirecTV dragging it out forever. TiVo knows full well how to build the box. You can bet the time was spent getting the requirements from D* - mostly on what it couldn't do - and the brian damaged specs that D* came up with after they figured they could just steal the Rupert box from what they thought they learned from TiVo.
> 
> TiVo *is shipping* a DVR with those features and 4 live tuners *now*. All 4 tuners even work when it's raining, too. And you can buy one and set it up and cancel service the next day and not owe $450, because they're very sure their product doesn't suck.


sorry don't bet anything, unless someome is privy to the exact issues that occurred then everything is specualtion, sounds like the comcast deal all over again. If you have access to this information, would be interested in seeing it. the brian damaged specs are what directv gave tivo, to bad it took them 3 years to get it done

Sorry "live tuners" working when it's raining since it is cable connected, lot of difference between a satillite signal in inclement weather as compared to a singal that is deliever via a cable that will only have weather interference is the cable ends are corroded or there is a break in the physical layer of teh calbe. want 100 percent perfect signal in all weather conditions - go with your local cable provider.

Set it up and cancel the next day? from TIVO's website

" WITH RESPECT TO ANY NEW TIVO SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION ACTIVATED ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER 6, 2005, YOU AGREE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE TIVO SERVICE FOR *NO LESS THAN 12 MONTHS* OR LONGER DEPENDING UPON YOUR SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION PLAN (THE "SERVICE COMMITMENT"). IF YOU FAIL TO MEET THE SERVICE COMMITMENT BY CANCELLING YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE (OR IF TIVO TERMINATES YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE DUE TO A BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT), YOU AGREE THAT TIVO MAY CHARGE YOU THE EARLY TERMINATION FEE AGREED TO BY YOU AT THE TIME YOU SUBSCRIBED TO THE TIVO SERVICE, AND YOU AGREE TO PAY ANY SUCH EARLY TERMINATION FEE."


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

sjberra said:


> sorry don't bet anything, unless someome is privy to the exact issues that occurred then everything is specualtion, sounds like the comcast deal all over again. If you have access to this information, would be interested in seeing it. the brian damaged specs are what directv gave tivo, to bad it took them 3 years to get it done
> 
> Sorry "live tuners" working when it's raining since it is cable connected, lot of difference between a satillite signal in inclement weather as compared to a singal that is deliever via a cable that will only have weather interference is the cable ends are corroded or there is a break in the physical layer of teh calbe. want 100 percent perfect signal in all weather conditions - go with your local cable provider.
> 
> ...


Feel free to be educated

http://www.tivo.com/buytivo/faqs/about_purchasing/index.html

"TiVo offers a 30-day money-back guarantee. Only applies to initial activations if canceled within 30 days and the TiVo box is returned for a full refund. If you cancel within 30 days of activation (which is typically the date your order ships), you will receive a full refund if you return the TiVo Premiere, Premiere XL or Premiere Elite box and wireless adapter, if applicable, within 15 days of cancellation."


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

SnakeEyes said:


> Feel free to be educated
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/buytivo/faqs/about_purchasing/index.html
> 
> "TiVo offers a 30-day money-back guarantee. Only applies to initial activations if canceled within 30 days and the TiVo box is returned for a full refund. If you cancel within 30 days of activation (which is typically the date your order ships), you will receive a full refund if you return the TiVo Premiere, Premiere XL or Premiere Elite box and wireless adapter, if applicable, within 15 days of cancellation."


Ahh, sorry did not see where they stated "set it up and cancel the very next day then send the unit back for a full refund" So as long as you get rid of the box back to the manufacturere you can cancel the subscription, but if you want to cancel and keep the box you are stuck with the subscripion, makes perfect sense.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

After much research I am sad to say I must leave TiVo after 11 years. The new DTV TiVo interface is not the old TiVo with the program on a hard drive. So it is highly unlikely that MRV will be implemented. I waited and waited for the DTV TiVo interface and now it is useless for my lovely wife and I. 

I really want HD so I am switching to a couple of the new DTV boxes, the HR34 and HR24. Not a TiVo and missing some TiVo functionality, but they do allow viewing among DVRs. We have been on the road now for two years watching SD on HD TVs. Pillar boxed, squished in a tiny central location, time to get the real deal.

What a pity that DTV would not allow real TiVo functionality.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The previous DTiVos didn't have MRV either. Also, I think all this talk about who "didn't allow" this or that is just guessing. We'll likely never know who specified the feature set or what the limitations were.

That said, I think you'll soon wonder why you waited.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

stevel said:


> The previous DTiVos didn't have MRV either. Also, I think all this talk about who "didn't allow" this or that is just guessing. We'll likely never know who specified the feature set or what the limitations were.
> 
> That said, I think you'll soon wonder why you waited.


Because TiVo is the best interface and feature set PERIOD.

Time will tell if my life will be pleasant or a living hades when momma gets hold of the remote.


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## mantonuc (Dec 31, 2011)

Hello all,


I am new on this forum... Perhaps 2-3 weeks ago, TIVO pushed a new firmware load out... Since that new load, I am seeing issues... It took three calls to TIVO just to get them to admit that there are issues. I was wondering if anyone else is seeing similar problems... I have a TIVO Premiere that is about 1 year old... Normally, I keep the "filtering" turned on with the primary set to HD and the subcategory not specified...

However, with the latest firmware load, when I have it filtered this way, if I hit the Guide button, I see the first column with the channel numbers, the second column with the channel names, but the 3rd column always says "To be announced". Is has been behaving like this for more than 2 weeks... When I turn off the filtering, I see all three columns with all the data in them... Has anyone else experienced this?



Matt


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

mantonuc said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am new on this forum... Perhaps 2-3 weeks ago, TIVO pushed a new firmware load out... Since that new load, I am seeing issues... It took three calls to TIVO just to get them to admit that there are issues. I was wondering if anyone else is seeing similar problems... I have a TIVO Premiere that is about 1 year old... Normally, I keep the "filtering" turned on with the primary set to HD and the subcategory not specified...
> 
> ...


You're in the wrong forum here. This is for DirecTV+Tivo DVRs.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

stevel said:


> The previous DTiVos didn't have MRV either. Also, I think all this talk about who "didn't allow" this or that is just guessing. We'll likely never know who specified the feature set or what the limitations were.


We know based on the portion of the agreement that was published in SEC filings that DirecTV had absolute final say over the feature set. It's a DirecTV product contracted from TiVo. If they wanted it to have MRV it would have MRV.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

nrc said:


> DirecTV had absolute final say over the feature set. It's a DirecTV product


The dogma here is to the contrary.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

nrc said:


> We know based on the portion of the agreement that was published in SEC filings that DirecTV had absolute final say over the feature set. It's a DirecTV product contracted from TiVo. If they wanted it to have MRV it would have MRV.


Agreed, However those docs did provide for a change request TiVo could file with DirecTV requesting changes to the feature set, so TiVo did have a formal way of making a request. We, of course, have no idea if TiVo ever availed themselves of that.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Dredging this back up. According this story DTV required TiVo to remove TTG capability.

http://www.phonenews.com/tivo-directv-tivotogo-19677/



> When pressed by PhoneNews.com, representatives for TiVo blamed DirecTV squarely for not offering the technology on their units. TiVo even went as far as to say that they had offered DirecTV a solution that would ensure copy protection requirements for DirecTV, but that the service provider still mandated that TiVo remove TiVoToGo from the new generation of DirecTV-enabled TiVo HD units.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

nrc said:


> According this story DTV required TiVo to remove TTG capability.


That is contrary to the dogma here. All the un-named sources. Can't be true.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

Wil said:


> Not desperate, just incompetent. This is not your father's Tivo, Inc (and even then it had problems). Today it's lawyers and smiles and old technology that's good only because nobody's been quite able to catch up.


Incompetent? Before you completely live up to your signature, have you ever even looked at the Tivo Elite? Who else comes close to this monster? Don't compare this watered down Tivo with what Tivo can really put out. Tivo is alive and well. This Directivo shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's been here since "the announcement" 3 years ago. Not only was this predicted back then...it was expected! This is exactly the unit Directv wanted. Something that wouldn't make their unit look inferior.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

mp11 said:


> Incompetent? Before you completely live up to your signature, have you ever even looked at the Tivo Elite? Who else comes close to this monster? Don't compare this watered down Tivo with what Tivo can really put out. Tivo is alive and well. This Directivo shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's been here since "the announcement" 3 years ago. Not only was this predicted back then...it was expected! This is exactly the unit Directv wanted. Something that wouldn't make their unit look inferior.


And now with a month under our belt with the latest and greatest DirecTV DVRs (HR34 and HR24) I can tell you without equivocation that the DTV DVRs are inferior to TiVo in almost all ways. They have all sorts of glitches and odd behaviors. The Multi Room Streaming works but do I ever miss True TiVo MRV. One of the worst things is no undelete. We have about five faults of some type or other per day. With TiVo both DirecTiVo and Series 3 TiVo we never had a fault any day.


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

Jerry_K,
You have an HR34?
I thought that the HR34 wasn't to be released until 2/9.


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## MJHoltorf (Dec 23, 2001)

BOBCAT said:


> Jerry_K,
> You have an HR34?
> I thought that the HR34 wasn't to be released until 2/9.


H34's have been available since 12/8 to all new customers, and a month or two before that to new customers in certain test markets. 2/9 is the date that existing customers can upgrade to the H34.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

BOBCAT said:


> Jerry_K,
> You have an HR34?
> I thought that the HR34 wasn't to be released until 2/9.


I am not new customer or in test market. I bought one owned outright from a dealer. No problem at all. Same with the HR24, brand new owned.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Jerry_K said:


> I am not new customer or in test market. I bought one owned outright from a dealer. No problem at all. Same with the HR24, brand new *leased*.


FYP


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

stevel said:


> FYP


They are owned by me and DirecTV agrees. Why do so many not think one can own their equipment? I have never leased any AV equipment.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

Jerry_K said:


> They are owned by me and DirecTV agrees. Why do so many not think one can own their equipment? I have never leased any AV equipment.


I guess it boils down to what you actually paid for the unit - I rememebr reading that directv will seel them for 450-500, if you paid less then that number or 199 it is pretty likely leased


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

sjberra said:


> I guess it boils down to what you actually paid for the unit - I rememebr reading that directv will seel them for 450-500, if you paid less then that number or 199 it is pretty likely leased


Paid to own.

The charge from DirecTV for a unit is not for the unit at all. It just covers shipping because you have no equity in the unit. So for a HR34 just consider the $399 to be the shipping cost.


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## bghmsh (Feb 21, 2006)

So I have been a Tivo Fan for almost 10 years and in fact worked for the company that produced the Tivo's 1st Tuner Chips I recently switched to DTV HR34 (Which is not a Tivo or even Tivo Lite) My question is : Can the New DirectTv Tivo be used in a mixed mode with other Tivo HD's I have a lot of programming on my network at Home which the Tivo HD's handle just fine. Can I still import my stored Videos for my NAS ?


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

Well....
The HR34 was released today. Called D*, They want $399 for the receiver, $199 for the whole home setup which is required and it must be installed by their installers. Can't just have them send the box for self install. Install appointments out here are about 10 days out right now.
Might as well buy one on ebay for $400, and not have to deal with D* and will get it in 3 days.
D* sure does make a big effort to not be proactive with their long time customers.
Will just buy the box off of ebay.


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## bghmsh (Feb 21, 2006)

Ok so I have owned.


4 Series 2
2 Series 3 
3 Series HD 

On my series 3 systems , after 45 days tuners died (yes and I checked it every way from Sunday) Swapped Cable cards , connectors , cables you name it.

Called Tivo and was told : Return the broke units - we will replace them for $99 , after receipt or pay us $179 now (x2) and we will send you two units , return the broken ones within 30 days : Oh and your service agreement gets reset to $19.99 a month as these are new units. Let me see $40 + 6.99 a month for Tivo + $68 a month for Comcast = $114.99 just to watch TV Nah I switched to Direct TV


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## bghmsh (Feb 21, 2006)

BOBCAT said:


> Well....
> The HR34 was released today. Called D*, They want $399 for the receiver, $199 for the whole home setup which is required and it must be installed by their installers. Can't just have them send the box for self install. Install appointments out here are about 10 days out right now.
> Might as well buy one on ebay for $400, and not have to deal with D* and will get it in 3 days.
> D* sure does make a big effort to not be proactive with their long time customers.
> Will just buy the box off of ebay.


I had mine installed last month (Oregon) and charged me $99 as a new customer - works mighty fine as well


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

Yea, D* doesn't care about their long time customers, 12years+, but gives a new customer a deal.
The CSA said that there was no discount at all on this unit.
I could see them perhaps charging an existing customer an extra $100 for the receiver over a new customer as they are trying to sign them up, but they just put the new receiver out of reach for some of us having to justify $600 to watch TV.
Nice going D*


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

BOBCAT said:


> Yea, D* doesn't care about their long time customers, 12years+, but gives a new customer a deal.
> The CSA said that there was no discount at all on this unit.
> I could see them perhaps charging an existing customer an extra $100 for the receiver over a new customer as they are trying to sign them up, but they just put the new receiver out of reach for some of us having to justify $600 to watch TV.
> Nice going D*


I called today to get the receiver and they wanted $200 so I told them I would cancel if they didn't come down on their price. They didn't and I did.

I feel so free now


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

I friend of mine called and ordered the HR34, was $200 and he ordered it. 
Told him that he should call them back, make sure that he was getting the HR34 so he did. 
Turned out that they ordered a THR-22 for him, so he canceled the order.
The box was already in the loop to ship. He has to wait until he receives it, then ship it back before he gets the refund.


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## DocSavage2001 (Jan 30, 2012)

If you don't mind leasing it instead of owning it, and commit to a 2-year plan (I have already been a DirecTv customer for 10 years), you can get it for free (actually cost of installation). I paid just $19.95 (plus $5 a month) to enjoy my new TiVo HD DVR.

I called them and did not go through the website that wanted $199 for it.

Dave


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

bghmsh said:


> My question is : Can the New DirectTv Tivo be used in a mixed mode with other Tivo HD's I have a lot of programming on my network at Home which the Tivo HD's handle just fine. Can I still import my stored Videos for my NAS ?


No and no - at least right now. It will likely never work "mixed mode", but there might be some sort of streaming or import facility added later.


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## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

So has anyone had a chance to modify the software or is the OS on a chip and not on the HD?


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

sk33t3r said:


> So has anyone had a chance to modify the software or is the OS on a chip and not on the HD?


I'm not aware of anybody that has come up with any way to modify, tweak, or enhance the THR22 software.


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## BOBCAT (Nov 28, 2002)

What do you want to modify?


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

BOBCAT said:


> What do you want to modify?


MRV and Tivo to go were hacks on Tivos and DTivos before they became features. Since they aren't features, again, on the THR22, obviously some users are hoping.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

Wil said:


> MRV and Tivo to go were hacks on Tivos and DTivos before they became features. Since they aren't features, again, on the THR22, obviously some users are hoping.


Quit hoping. The operating software is on a chip. The hard drive is nothing more than a storage device.

From what I understand even real TiVo is now a streaming not a transfer machine.

The only hope you might have is if you use the method that is on DBS talk to write the content of the drive to another drive for use in the same unit. Then start digging into each and every byte to see what is recording etc. And then get NSA to unencrypt the video for your NAS.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Jerry_K said:


> Quit hoping. The operating software is on a chip. The hard drive is nothing more than a storage device.
> 
> From what I understand even real TiVo is now a streaming not a transfer machine.


Real TiVo still transfers if the content is not marked as copy protected by the cable company.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

nrc said:


> Real TiVo still transfers if the content is not marked as copy protected by the cable company.


Latest and greatest as I understand is the Premiere Elite.

I thought the Premiere Elite only does streaming. This quote from the TiVo website. No mention of the old MRV or Transfer

"What is Multi-Room Streaming?
Watch shows instantly between two network-connected TiVo Premiere DVRs
Pause in one room and finish watching in another
Access premium content whenever you want, wherever you want

Connecting two or more TiVo Premiere DVRs for Multi-Room Streaming

If you want to stream content between two or more TiVo Premiere DVRs, those DVRs must be connected to the Internet (and to each other) by:
An Ethernet cable that plugs into the Ethernet port, or
A coax cable that plugs into the MoCA port if you already have a MoCA-enabled network (such as a Verizon FiOS household), or
A MoCA bridge that connects to your router if your DVRs are in a room other than your router"


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes, it still does MRV and TTG. You're inferring way too much from cheesy ad copy. TiVo is talking up streaming because it's a new feature, and because it doesn't have the same problems with CCI flags that MRV has.

Also, no, the OS is not on a chip. However, the boot ROM does contain code that does integrity checks on the OS partition of the hard drive, so you can't arbitrarily modify the OS just because it's on disk (unless you have TiVo's keys to sign it with).


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## Gasturbine (May 9, 2008)

mleland said:


> Checking my account on DTV,com I would pay 199$ for the unit + 6$ a month lease fee(as you can't own it!) + 5$ a month tivo feature fee.


You mean I cant buy one from like Weakees, and have them activate it??


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

You can pay Weaknees to send you one, but it will still be leased and subject to the same fees.


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