# Game of Thrones S06E02 05/01/16: "Home"



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

OK, so who else let out a "Yessss!" like their favorite hockey team scored a goal at approximately 9:55 PM?

If Melisandre had failed, it would have been such a horrible tease by the writers.

Ramsay (Bolton), if he hadn't already, has now supplanted every other character for pure evil.

Also, to continue from the prior thread, it doesn't seem like anyone really believes Tommen is a Baratheon any more.

Tyrion has come so far from how he "released the dragon" in S1.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

I said Azor Ahai!

Inside joke.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

MacThor said:


> OK, so who else let out a "Yessss!" like their favorite hockey team scored a goal at approximately 9:55 PM?
> 
> If Melisandre had failed, it would have been such a horrible tease by the writers.
> 
> ...


Ramsey Bolton*.

Tyrion had some balls. The only reason that scene had no sense of suspense for me is because I knew there was no way Tyrion would go out as a McNugget.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Ramsey is a sick SoB. Even though I knew what was going to happen a small part of me had hoped he would just let her go. Not a Ramsey though. He truly is the most evil character on the show. 

Theon deciding to return home just as his dad dies is damned convenient. 

So Sansa and gang are the only folks in all the realm who know how many starks are left .

Also, Bran's vision should not be overlooked.

2nd episode in and it feels like they are going 100mph.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Needed more glowing. Should have sacrificed bad lord commander for Jon. 

I assume the bad guy on bridge is Euron Greyjoy?


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Oh, and if you call back to the red priestess putting hexes on the three kings in Stannis' way, they are all dead now.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> Also, Bran's vision should not be overlooked.


So Bran saw his aunt Lyanna in his vision. I wonder if he'll have a vision of the tournament at Harrenhal. Or of the Tower of Joy.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> So Bran saw his aunt Lyanna in his vision. I wonder if he'll have a vision of the tournament at Harrenhal. Or of the Tower of Joy.


It looks like Bran is going to be the conduit for some Stark family back-story. Including, no doubt, the origin of Jon Stark.

(Whose return should have surprised nobody!)

The show is better than it's ever been! Perhaps in part because as a book reader it's now all new to me. I caught myself thinking "Who needs George R. R. Martin?"


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

"A girl isn't a beggar any more" 
Awesome.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I would've liked for Jon to have woken up after being set afire after Melisandre's "failed" attempt. But I'll take it.

I really like Yara and hopefully this storyline will feature a lot more of her.

I knew that baby was doomed from the start. Roose kept waving it to Ramsay's face once too often. I just assumed Ramsay would make the death "accidental" before the baby was born. He is pure evil.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Why did he wait until the baby was born?


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

It could've been a girl.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm glad they are moving Arya's story along. I was hoping they wouldn't have her beaten up for half a season. 

So Jon Snow arose from the dead on Easter Day (Orthodox - Julian calendar). 

I was literally laughing when Tyrion kept glancing back at Varys, who would not go any further than the top step.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The way zombie Mountain killed that guy made me laugh.

The way the wildling giant killed that guy made me laugh. It reminded me of Hulk vs. Floki.

The rebel night's watch guys should have been killed instead of imprisoned.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> The rebel night's watch guys should have been killed instead of imprisoned.


Don't be ridiculous. They should have a fair trial.

THEN they should be killed. 

(And of course Jon should be the judge. "You are accused of murdering...well, me. GUILTY!"


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

HIHZia said:


> It could've been a girl.


And his strong moral code wouldn't have risked killing unnecessarily?

I guess his dad's assurance that he would always be his first born didn't hold up. I suppose the baby could have challenged him as he got older.



wprager said:


> I was literally laughing when Tyrion kept glancing back at Varys, who would not go any further than the top step.


The look on Varys' face was priceless.

I thought The Mountain was going to relieve that dude of his most treasured asset. It was a great kill, though. Splat.

Loved how nervous the team of guards was about going up against Cersai with The Mountain behind her.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

As Tyrion walked back up the steps, I expected him to mention something about soiling his loincloth! 

"Next time, punch me in the face." Funny enough.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

MacThor said:


> OK, so who else let out a "Yessss!" like their favorite hockey team scored a goal at approximately 9:55 PM?
> 
> If Melisandre had failed, it would have been such a horrible tease by the writers.
> 
> ...


I was actually very disappointed to tell you the truth.

It just seemed too damned convenient. When the wildlings showed up I swore they would take his body north of the Wall and bury him where he'd become a White Walker. I don't know, but I like the idea of Jon Snow dead rather than him resurrected.

On other things, Great kill by the Mountain...that splat was great. Ramsey is a sick MF!! This was the episode of the Giants. We had the Mountain...we had Hodor, and we had the Wildling's Giant all making appearences. Tyrion always cracks me up, but awesome scene with the dragons. I loved how the second one moves so Tyrion could get to his chains. Nice to see Bran again. Boy did he get older!! I hope there's more "magic" so he could walk again. Why not? Now that we can bring people back from the dead.

One thing I was apparently right about (after being so wrong last week!), The Red Woman was having doubts, and that's why she did what she did the previous week.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Ramsay Bolton makes my skin crawl.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

Robin said:


> And his strong moral code wouldn't have risked killing unnecessarily?


No, just that a girl would have been inconsequential and he would't even think about it, whereas a boy is a direct threat.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Ramsay Bolton makes my skin crawl.


Making people's skin crawl is kinda their thing (it's their sigil after all).

Next time hear "Hodor" the proper response should be "Whatcha talkin' 'bout, Wyllis?"


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

For those of you who don't know, the Tyrion scene with the dragons has strengthen a long-running fan theory. For spoilers sake, I'll leave it at your discretion to search for the theory.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

markp99 said:


> As Tyrion walked back up the steps, I expected him to mention something about soiling his loincloth!
> 
> "Next time, punch me in the face." Funny enough.


I'd almost forgotten how funny Tyrion was! 

And Ramsey showed what an evil bastard he is, not that that's a surprise at this point.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

HIHZia said:


> No, just that a girl would have been inconsequential and he would't even think about it, whereas a boy is a direct threat.


Not sure that is true. Would a girl be in line in front of a Bastard? Remember, Ramsey (Snow) Bolton's claim to the Bolton name is based on a decree by the King (Tommelin). If the King's on lineage was ever discover and he was removed as King, his decrees would be worthless. Thus Ramsey becomes a Snow again.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

HIHZia said:


> No, just that a girl would have been inconsequential and he would't even think about it, whereas a boy is a direct threat.


Ha! He probably would be thinking about how long before he can torture and have sex with her.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

TriBruin said:


> Not sure that is true. Would a girl be in line in front of a Bastard?


A girl wouldn't be in line at all, period.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

How about Jon's tie to his wolf? He came around as soon as Ghost woke up.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Robin said:


> How about Jon's tie to his wolf? He came around as soon as Ghost woke up.


I see it more as Ghost woke up as son as Jon came back.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> I see it more as Ghost woke up as son as Jon came back.


My take as well, though the editing suggested Ghost woke up first.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

The preview for next week was just as good! We are going to see the...


Spoiler



Battle between Rhaegar Targaryen and Eddard Stark! Jon Snow is (possibly) the son of Lyana Stark. They practically gave us all the info in a 5 second clip. Bran was standing there watching it unfold. Can't wait!!!


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Back to this episode. Ramsey is demented as ever. That dog scene was just brutal. The "died by poison" was amusing. The mountain fighting is going to be something I look forward to each week. Now that Tyrion released the Dragons I am betting he will ride one of them in battle. The Red Witch is suddenly at the top of her game - yay! That should return her faith next week.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I was actually very disappointed to tell you the truth.
> 
> It just seemed too damned convenient. When the wildlings showed up I swore they would take his body north of the Wall and bury him where he'd become a White Walker. I don't know, but I like the idea of Jon Snow dead rather than him resurrected.


Well, they are starting to fall into the trope trap, with both episodes this season including a last minute rescue of the "good guys" surrounded and facing insurmountable odds.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> A girl wouldn't be in line at all, period.


Yara would beg to disagree!

If you stop and think about it, that world is getting a hell of a revolution of Girl Power...

Danny is/was in charge of a large part of the East.
A woman is now in charge of Dorne
Sansa is the heir to Winterfell
Yara could challenge for the Iron Throne

did I miss anyone?


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Anubys said:


> did I miss anyone?


I think the girl with no name might play a prominent role in the story.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Is Yara played by someone else this season?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Is Yara played by someone else this season?


Nope.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Nope.


She looked a little different to me. Perhaps she doesn't age that well.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> I see it more as Ghost woke up as son as Jon came back.


I'm in ghost woke up and it was the final touch for Jon to awake. Maybe just someone who believed in him.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

I don't think the Red Woman had anything to do with Jon being alive. I'm also not quite sure he actually is alive, although it appears that the actor has apologized on Twitter for saying he was dead. 

There's way more to this story. As we were discussing in last weeks episode thread, Jon is just way too important to the story to be dead. He is, in fact, the story. Him and Dany. That's not just fan theory. If you read the books it's pretty obvious. 

Although the story is also Tyrion. And, as someone up thread stated, that Dragon scene really cemented that.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> I'm in ghost woke up and it was the final touch for Jon to awake. Maybe just someone who believed in him.


The showrunners explained the wolf sensed Jon is back, that's why he looked up.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

mostman said:


> I'm also not quite sure he actually is alive, although it appears that the actor has apologized on Twitter for saying he was dead.


Hey man, you might want to check your tivo recording. It sounds like the last 8 seconds got cut off.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

markp99 said:


> My take as well, though the editing suggested Ghost woke up first.


Agreed. My two dogs come running into the bedroom as soon as they hear me about to wake. They always sense my movements.

As far as the Jon's oath to the Night's Watch. Is he still bound by them since he technically died?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

nickels said:


> The preview for next week was just as good! We are going to see the...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Rhaegar is not there


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> Agreed. My two dogs come running into the bedroom as soon as they hear me about to wake. They always sense my movements.


Although if Ghost is sensing Jon's movements, then it stands to reason that Jon came to life before Ghost woke up.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

markp99 said:


> "Next time, punch me in the face." Funny enough.


How many posts would this thread have had if Tyrion had added "5 or 6 times"?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> How many posts would this thread have had if Tyrion had added "5 or 6 times"?


None.

But if he had said "4 or 5 times," that would have made the TCF crowd go wild.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

I think I must have missed what happened to Arya Stark. I saw her get beat up again. And then I saw her being offered things like shelter, food, and her vision back if she would say her name and she refused all of those.

Did something else happen after that?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stalemate said:


> I think I must have missed what happened to Arya Stark. I saw her get beat up again. And then I saw her being offered things like shelter, food, and her vision back if she would say her name and she refused all of those.
> 
> Did something else happen after that?


A man, pleased with her responses, took her home.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

cherry ghost said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Rhaegar is not there


Spoiler fixer


Spoiler






> [Oops - it is the Tower of Joy battle where Eddard "rescues" his sister. The battle of Trident is where Rhaegar is defeated by Robert Baratheon. So much going on it is hard to keep this all straight.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Did we ever get any resolution to the BenJen storyline? I recall his horse coming back without him but I don't remember it ever coming back up again. I think there was even a joke made about him in episode one and he was featured in the "previously on" last week.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

Shaunnick said:


> Hey man, you might want to check your tivo recording. It sounds like the last 8 seconds got cut off.


Lol - I knew someone would bring that up. Here is what I meant. I'm not sure it's actually him. Yet. My thought is that it could be Bran warging into his dead body. Slim chance. But that's why I said what I said.

If it is him, however. I'm pretty darn sure it wasn't the Red Woman's doing.

Edit. Bran. Had something else on my mind.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

goblue97 said:


> Did we ever get any resolution to the BenJen storyline? I recall his horse coming back without him but I don't remember it ever coming back up again. I think there was even a joke made about him in episode one and he was featured in the "previously on" last week.


Nope. He rode off on a ranging mission and that's it.

He's like the Russian on the Sopranos.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

markp99 said:


> My take as well, though the editing suggested Ghost woke up first.


I wouldn't say the editing suggested that just because we saw Ghost awake first. I think it was pretty clear that we were using Ghost as the proxy to see when Jon woke up instead of focusing on him. It did 2 things, prolong/increase the suspense and further cement the bond between him and Ghost.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Anubys said:


> If you stop and think about it, that world is getting a hell of a revolution of Girl Power...
> 
> Danny is/was in charge of a large part of the East.
> A woman is now in charge of Dorne
> ...


Does Cersei still count?
Olena Tyrell is not _officially_ in charge, but...


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> I would've liked for Jon to have woken up after being set afire after Melisandre's "failed" attempt. But I'll take it.


Yeah. It would've "proven" his parentage. Now we'll probably confirm it through a Bran vision, but that won't buy him anything. Perhaps he'll


Spoiler



ride a dragon.


And there were a _lot_ of _long_ shots of dead Jon, making us wait.

Arya's story line is cool, but how will it converge with the main story?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

tlc said:


> Arya's story line is cool, but how will it converge with the main story?


My guess is she will eventually be fully trained and drinking the Kool-Aid. Then she will be called upon to kill someone (and/or NOT kill someone), and she will face a conflict of whether to do as the cult expects, or as the old Arya would have done. Of course, the person to be killed will be a central character.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

john4200 said:


> My guess is she will eventually be fully trained and drinking the Kool-Aid. Then she will be called upon to kill someone (and/or NOT kill someone), and she will face a conflict of whether to do as the cult expects, or as the old Arya would have done. Of course, the person to be killed will be a central character.


I was assuming that she wasn't going to drink the Kool-Aid. Instead I figured she'd do what ever it took to get the training and then head out on a personal vendetta that probably ended up aligning with someone else's need to get stuff done. I like to think that Bran, her, Jon, Tyrion etc. will all end up on the same super team at some point.

Alas I fear that I'm still living in s dream world that does not align with how the real world (of GRR Martin) works. Which is good because if the story does start getting all 'good guys win' then I'll be very disappointed.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> Nope. He rode off on a ranging mission and that's it.
> 
> He's like the Russian on the Sopranos.





Spoiler



There's an interesting character in the books


Spoiler



Coldhands


 who never made it into the series that I always assumed was the answer to the question of what happened to Benjen.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Martin already told his editor that Coldhands is not Benjen. Coldhands is someone much, much older. If you check the Coldhands wiki entry there are some fan theories but that's about it.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Martin already told his editor that Coldhands is not Benjen. Coldhands is someone much, much older. If you check the Coldhands wiki entry there are some fan theories but that's about it.


Yeah, I know. That's what GRRM says. But he also took that part out of the books, so who knows.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Cersei is an evil *****, but I find myself disliking the sparrow even more. My list of hated characters in order are: (So glad Joffrey is gone.)

1. The High Sparrow
2. Ramsey Bolton
3. Tommen Beratheon
4. Theon Greyjoy
5. Sansa Stark
6. Peter Balish
7. Bran Stark
8. Arya Stark <-- She's getting better.

The ones I like the best (These fluctuate with each episode)  :

1. Tyrion
2. Brienne of Tarth
3. Margery
4. John Snow
5. Melisandre
6. Daenerys
7. Jaqen H'Gar
8. Podrick
9. Hodor
10. Jaime Lannister
11. Jorah Mormont


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

How can Ramsey not be at the top of that list?


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Shaunnick said:


> How can Ramsey not be at the top of that list?


Ramsey is just evil with no pretense otherwise. The High Sparrow is a sanctimonious evil prick who cloaks his deeds in religion. I agree with his ordering of these two.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Shaunnick said:


> I see it more as Ghost woke up as son as Jon came back.


I saw it as Jon "hiding out" in Ghost until his body was healed.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I agree with your top 3 hated characters, but I don't mind the rest that much. My favorites are Tyrion, Jon Snow, and Sam. There were a lot of others that I liked better than #'s 2 and 3, but they're all gone now.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

wprager said:


> I saw it as Jon "hiding out" in Ghost until his body was healed.


Whoa--I didn't think of it that way, but now that you say it, it seems obvious. :up:


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Do you ever watch these shows and then read the threads and are amazed at the things people didn't get that are being argued over and you're just like "but of course it was this way" and then you turn and read something else that you hadn't even considered before. I love this forum. 

That said, yes I think I yelled twice. Once when the first chain dropped from the dragon and second when John "woke". I don't want to add to the argument but until I read here I just assumed Ghost sensed Jon's "life" returning, not so much his movement. Animals have that weird sixth sense like that so I just thought it was a given. Now Jon being in Ghost was something I hadn't even contemplated but that would be cool too.

I like to think I follow the story and characters really well considering I'm not a book reader but aside from the obvious of him being Balon Greyjoy's brother have we heard of him or the story they were discussing? Is he believed dead? That bit lost me. 

Ramsay, lord the minute he stabbed Roose I said "well that baby ain't making day 2". I also didn't find myself the least bit sorry for Roose but I certainly do cringe for anyone that gets in his way and I never thought I'd wish death on someone faster than Joffrey but here we are. Can someone stab him in the throat now?

Never will they go an episode without reminding me why Tyrion is my favorite.

ETA: I thought for sure the High Sparrow was there to take Jaime to the cells too and I was looking forward to seeing Jamie serve them all up right there in the holy place. Ah maybe another episode.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> Whoa--I didn't think of it that way, but now that you say it, it seems obvious. :up:


Ditto


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

How are people acting like Jon Snow's consciousness being in Ghost is a new concept? That possibility was discussed in the season finale thread from last season and in the season premier thread from this season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> I saw it as Jon "hiding out" in Ghost until his body was healed.





stellie93 said:


> Whoa--I didn't think of it that way, but now that you say it, it seems obvious. :up:


I'm not so sure...that's a pretty specialized ability that Jon has never shown a trace of.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

DevdogAZ said:


> How are people acting like Jon Snow's consciousness being in Ghost is a new concept? That possibility was discussed in the season finale thread from last season and in the season premier thread from this season.


Not a new concept at all just something that I hadn't considered while watching.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I guess I worded that badly--not obviously what happened, but just obviously a possibility that, as you say, I should have thought of but for some reason didn't.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> Cersei is an evil *****, but I find myself disliking the sparrow even more. My list of hated characters in order are: (So glad Joffrey is gone.)
> 
> 1. The High Sparrow
> 2. Ramsey Bolton
> ...


Arya is on the wrong list! Heck so is Bran. Sansa has managed to move to neutral for me.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> Can someone stab him in the throat now?


And can it please be Sansa?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Has anyone given thought that when Theon said he was going home he means Winterfell?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I have to admit, Sansa has grown on me, too. Meanwhile Daenerys has gone a little the other way. It's been a while since she's done anything noteworthy.

I'm looking forward to seeing what The Mountain might do to the High Sparrow and his followers. I like Jonathan Pryce, I really do (ever since Brazil) but I won't miss him on this show. He has done the unimaginable -- he made me feel sorry for Cercei.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

gossamer88 said:


> Has anyone given thought that when Theon said he was going home he means Winterfell?


There's nothing and no-one left in Winterfell. So I'm pretty sure he meant he's going back to the Iron Islands.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wprager said:


> There's nothing and no-one left in Winterfell. So I'm pretty sure he meant he's going back to the Iron Islands.


That's definitely what we're supposed to think, and is almost certainly what he meant. But it's not an unreasonable thought to think that for him, Winterfell is home. It's where he was raised. It's where Reek was born. Remember several seasons ago when his sister came to rescue him and he wouldn't go. So while I don't think it's likely that he goes back to Winterfell, I think the line was written intentionally to make us wonder what "home" he was talking about.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> He has done the unimaginable -- he made me feel sorry for Cercei.


Not me so much. She deserved it. He's made me feel glee that he was so monumentally stupid in choosing his enemy, and the price he will have to pay for it.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's definitely what we're supposed to think, and is almost certainly what he meant. But it's not an unreasonable thought to think that for him, Winterfell is home. It's where he was raised. It's where Reek was born. Remember several seasons ago when his sister came to rescue him and he wouldn't go. So while I don't think it's likely that he goes back to Winterfell, I think the line was written intentionally to make us wonder what "home" he was talking about.


But that was when he was "Reek". He is back to being Theon, what's left of him. Also there are no Starks left at Winterfell so that would not be home for that reason.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

wprager said:


> But that was when he was "Reek". He is back to being Theon, what's left of him. Also there are no Starks left at Winterfell so that would not be home for that reason.


Considering he didn't want to go near the wall because he was concerned about Jon Snow, i can't see him thinking of a former Stark home as home. He is going to the Iron Islands setting up a contest for the throne with his sister.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> I like to think I follow the story and characters really well considering I'm not a book reader but aside from the obvious of him being Balon Greyjoy's brother have we heard of him or the story they were discussing? Is he believed dead? That bit lost me.


Euron has not been mentioned on the show (yet, I don't think, there is a chance they dropped his name in S2 but it likely would have been a throwaway line). He is a younger brother to both Balon (Theon and Yara's father and now dead king of the Ironborn) and Aeron Greyjoy, the priest we saw this episode who told Yara there would be a Kingsmoot. Euron was/is the black sheep of the family and earned a reputation for being cruel and crazy. His mention of cutting out his crew's tongues is for real. All of his crew are mutes.

That is for background, anything more would get into real spoilerish territory (depending on what they decide to do with him in the show.)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I have to feel like it's not a coincidence that immediately after Dany's fleet is burned in Meereen, the show introduces a new character who is a seafaring pirate with access to many ships.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not so sure...that's a pretty specialized ability that Jon has never shown a trace of.


He's never been dead before 

-smak-


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> we had Hodor,





Stormspace said:


> 9. Hodor


Wyllis!

Wyyllliiiisss.



DUDE_NJX said:


> She looked a little different to me. Perhaps she doesn't age that well.


It's the Iron life.



gossamer88 said:


> Has anyone given thought that when Theon said he was going home he means Winterfell?


The thought crossed my mind as well but unless he's going to try to get vengeance on Ramsay, there's nothing there for him.

I hope they didn't pay Kit Harrington by the line in the last two episodes.


----------



## Tracy (Mar 12, 2000)

I've lost track of a character. There was a Baratheon bastard who was a blacksmith apprentice. I remember he was with Melisandre and she seduced him but then did something like take blood from him for a ritual. Is he dead?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Tracy said:


> I've lost track of a character. There was a Baratheon bastard who was a blacksmith apprentice. I remember he was with Melisandre and she seduced him but then did something like take blood from him for a ritual. Is he dead?


His name is Gendry and last we saw he was rowing in a little rowboat from Dragonstone to King's Landing. I think that was in S2 or S3. As far as we know, he is not dead, but we also have no other information about him.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

I'm thrilled that Tyrion set the dragons loose. I don't know exactly what it says about me as a person, but of all the suffering, carnage and brutality we've seen on their show over the years, the most heartbreaking thing for me was when Dany locked them up in that dungeon. I've worried about them ever since.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But let's not forget that they were locked up because they started eating children...


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I'm just gonna say it every week - I don't get how the High Sparrow and his minions have such control or power - we keep seeing the King has an army - Cersei can't move cos the King's army won't let her and then we are at the funeral with the King and the Sparrow Army shows up and the King and Jaime Lannister have NO protection, no guards??? WTF was their soldiers?

and while I am on it - Peter Dinklage has got to be the worst actor in the universe. Both scenes he was in were torturous to watch.

on the other hand, I gotta say they lucked out that the kids they cast as the Stark children are all growing up to be fine actors...



DUDE_NJX said:


> Is Yara played by someone else this season?


Funny, I thought the same thing about the actress playing Meera. I think they have just both grown up a little.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But let's not forget that they were locked up because they started eating children...


Yeah. Not so bothered by that. Hence my questioning of my own character.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Shaunnick said:


> Euron has not been mentioned on the show (yet, I don't think, there is a chance they dropped his name in S2 but it likely would have been a throwaway line). He is a younger brother to both Balon (Theon and Yara's father and now dead king of the Ironborn) and Aeron Greyjoy, the priest we saw this episode who told Yara there would be a Kingsmoot. Euron was/is the black sheep of the family and earned a reputation for being cruel and crazy. His mention of cutting out his crew's tongues is for real. All of his crew are mutes. That is for background, anything more would get into real spoilerish territory (depending on what they decide to do with him in the show.)


:up:
Thank you! That's all I needed to know. I wasn't sure if I had missed something massive along the way somehow.



Tracy said:


> I've lost track of a character. There was a Baratheon bastard who was a blacksmith apprentice. I remember he was with Melisandre and she seduced him but then did something like take blood from him for a ritual. Is he dead?





DevdogAZ said:


> His name is Gendry and last we saw he was rowing in a little rowboat from Dragonstone to King's Landing. I think that was in S2 or S3. As far as we know, he is not dead, but we also have no other information about him.


Also to note, that Davos sent him out in that boat without the knowledge or agreement of his king, hence nearly getting himself killed in doing so. The only reason he wasn't is because Melisandre saw something in the flames about his worth in the future battles.



Cainebj said:


> and while I am on it - Peter Dinklage has got to be the worst actor in the universe. Both scenes he was in were torturous to watch.



Joke? Because ..........


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> I'm just gonna say it every week - I don't get how the High Sparrow and his minions have such control or power - we keep seeing the King has an army - Cersei can't move cos the King's army won't let her and then we are at the funeral with the King and the Sparrow Army shows up and the King and Jaime Lannister have NO protection, no guards??? WTF was their soldiers?


For the same reason a country like Egypt can't get rid of the Moslem Brotherhood, for example. You can't just storm a church, kill its leader and a few followers and be done with "religion" or a fanatical movement. You just make martyrs out of them and a 100 people take their place.

They even went to great length in the previous season to explain how difficult and bloody (and costly) it was to get rid of the fanatics the last time this sort of thing happened.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

wprager said:


> I saw it as Jon "hiding out" in Ghost until his body was healed.





stellie93 said:


> Whoa--I didn't think of it that way, but now that you say it, it seems obvious. :up:


While certainly possible, I think that's highly unlikely. This is a well written and well thought-out book/show. If Jon had such an ability, they would've hinted at it earlier. Ghost acted like a normal animal throughout the entire crisis. He has a special relationship with Jon and his "waking up" was the signal that something was happening. I think it's far-fetched to extrapolate that into a warging experience.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

john4200 said:


> My guess is she will eventually be fully trained and drinking the Kool-Aid. Then she will be called upon to kill someone (and/or NOT kill someone), and she will face a conflict of whether to do as the cult expects, or as the old Arya would have done. Of course, the person to be killed will be a central character.


My memory isn't good, but I do recall that H'kar (did I get the name right?) said to her that she will never become "no one" just as he blinded her but that "maybe she can become something else". So I took that to mean that he will train her to be an assassin but not be like him/them. Which means she can still kill the people on the list. In essence, I took that to mean that Arya can get everything she wants: the training, but not the restrictions of forgetting her revenge list.



photoshopgrl said:


> ETA: I thought for sure the High Sparrow was there to take Jaime to the cells too and I was looking forward to seeing Jamie serve them all up right there in the holy place. Ah maybe another episode.


Even with his right hand, I don't think Jaime could've beaten all these people. Being a great fighter doesn't mean you can kill 20 people coming at you at once. You can only do that if you put yourself in a spot where they have to come at you one at a time. Even then, you'll eventually lose because you'll get tired!


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But let's not forget that they were locked up because they started eating children...


Wellll, in all fairness, it was not Rhaegal and Viserion eating kids, it was Drogon who did that and he is still on the loose.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Cainebj said:


> I'm just gonna say it every week - I don't get how the High Sparrow and his minions have such control or power - we keep seeing the King has an army - Cersei can't move cos the King's army won't let her and then we are at the funeral with the King and the Sparrow Army shows up and the King and Jaime Lannister have NO protection, no guards??? WTF was their soldiers?


Entertainment Weekly keeps referring to him as Bernie Sparrow. I get the sense that he has a huge following and if he and the other sparrows are attacked without cause it may lead to rebellion. I could be wrong.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Bernie is a horrible parallel. Especially as the real parallel is the Catholic Church in medieval days. They had some physical force but they had the force of religion to the point of superstition.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> and while I am on it - Peter Dinklage has got to be the worst actor in the universe. Both scenes he was in were torturous to watch.


This might be the most WTF-est statement I've ever read on TCF. Tyrion is the best thing about GoT.


----------



## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> Do you ever watch these shows and then read the threads and are amazed at the things people didn't get that are being argued over and you're just like "but of course it was this way" and then you turn and read something else that you hadn't even considered before. I love this forum.


Quite often. That's why I love this place too. I've been checking out Reddit lately since the traffic here seems to have died down recently but that place is kinda crazy.


----------



## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

I don't get all the hate for Ramsay. I get that he is evil, but he is boringly evil. The character is paper thin.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Another thing to bear in mind is that this is the state religion of Westeros, and the Sparrow is their Pope. I think it may be hard for us to imagine living in a genuine theocracy, but think Iran before the hostage crisis. Yes, there was a secular ruler as well as the Ayatollah, but there's a limit to how far the Shah could interfere with how the religion was run, and if he went too far he risked being deposed.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But let's not forget that they were locked up because they started eating children...


Eh, just the one...


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

What is the subreddit for the the tvshow?


----------



## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

https://www.reddit.com/r/GameOfThrones


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Whatever happened to Game of Thrones on Facebook? That stuff was often great!


----------



## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

I am a casual watcher of Game of Thrones - I can't remember from one week to the next what has happened, much less something 3 seasons ago... So take my take with a grain of salt that I may not know what the heck I'm talking about 

The scene on the bridge when Balon was thrown over.... He was clearly talking to someone he knew - his brother whathisname. But the scene afterward showing the person that threw him over looked to me to be Theon. Hubby thought it looked like Theon as well. But it clearly was not Theon he was talking to on the bridge.

Could it be Theon that went home and killed dear old dad while Balon was hallucinating in the storm?

I could also be full of crap.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

dthmj said:


> I am a casual watcher of Game of Thrones - I can't remember from one week to the next what has happened, much less something 3 seasons ago... So take my take with a grain of salt that I may not know what the heck I'm talking about
> 
> The scene on the bridge when Balon was thrown over.... He was clearly talking to someone he knew - his brother whathisname. But the scene afterward showing the person that threw him over looked to me to be Theon. Hubby thought it looked like Theon as well. But it clearly was not Theon he was talking to on the bridge.
> 
> ...


Funny, that my wife thought that the casting of Balon's brother was great since he looked like Theon. How she saw Theon in that mess of a rain storm I don't know?!


----------



## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

dthmj said:


> But the scene afterward showing the person that threw him over looked to me to be Theon. Hubby thought it looked like Theon as well. But it clearly was not Theon he was talking to on the bridge.
> 
> Could it be Theon that went home and killed dear old dad while Balon was hallucinating in the storm?


I thought it looked like Theon as well. I even watched the credits afterward looking for someone named Allen.


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

dthmj said:


> I am a casual watcher of Game of Thrones - I can't remember from one week to the next what has happened, much less something 3 seasons ago...


First casual watcher I've heard of. Everybody else is totally IN or totally not watching.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> and while I am on it - Peter Dinklage has got to be the worst actor in the universe. Both scenes he was in were torturous to watch.


Says the guy who is defending Fear the Walking Dead every week. Remind me never to trust your opinion of the quality of any TV show.


----------



## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

The only way I would think Peter Dinklage is a better actor is if I found out he was really 6'4"


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> My memory isn't good, but I do recall that H'kar (did I get the name right?) said to her that she will never become "no one" just as he blinded her but that "maybe she can become something else". So I took that to mean that he will train her to be an assassin but not be like him/them. Which means she can still kill the people on the list. In essence, I took that to mean that Arya can get everything she wants: the training, but not the restrictions of forgetting her revenge list.


You may be reading too much into it. Since he just tested her this episode, and she had to respond "no one" to his questions to pass the test, it hardly seems like he has given up on her becoming "no one". Sure, you could argue that they both know that she is just giving lip service to the idea, but if so, why bother to test her at all?


----------



## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

ACoolDude said:


> The only way I would think Peter Dinklage is a better actor is if I found out he was really 6'4"


 :up:


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

The guy that through Baylon off the bridge... He wasn't at the funeral scene, was he?


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

ACoolDude said:


> The only way I would think Peter Dinklage is a better actor is if I found out he was really 6'4"


Heck. Even 5'4".


----------



## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> The guy that through Baylon off the bridge... He wasn't at the funeral scene, was he?


No.


----------



## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

What am I missing with King Tommen? Surely I would think the Kings Guards and Army could take out the High Sparrow and the Faith Militant. Are Tommen and Jamie being held captive and away from the King's Guards? The guards were under orders to keep the queen locked up, so it would seem that they are communicating. I understand that Tommen himself might not have the skills to do the ordering, but surely Jamie could.

Maybe I just need to be patient for Cersei to get back and rain down a bit of thunder?


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

I think that the show isn't doing a good enough job of showing that the Faith Militant is a large, powerful group now. Well, sort of - they have the Sparrows and the backing of the peasants/people. They are showing it by their actions, such as putting the King's wife and also the queen in prison. The history of the story says it took a really powerful king to dismantle them the first time (Maegor the Cruel), not some kid that has no idea what he is doing in charge. Cersei messed up giving them power, now they have more than her.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

They are giving the idea through dialogue. The High Sparrow speech about how individually they are powerless, but combined they are the most powerful force around.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Anubys said:


> For the same reason a country like Egypt can't get rid of the Moslem Brotherhood, for example. You can't just storm a church, kill its leader and a few followers and be done with "religion" or a fanatical movement. You just make martyrs out of them and a 100 people take their place.


That I would understand - what I don't get is how the High Sparrow shows up at a funeral chamber with what looked like many soldiers/warriors and the King and Jaime have NO ONE in sight to protect them. That is what I don't get.



cheesesteak said:


> This might be the most WTF-est statement I've ever read on TCF. Tyrion is the best thing about GoT.





DevdogAZ said:


> Says the guy who is defending Fear the Walking Dead every week. Remind me never to trust your opinion of the quality of any TV show.


Oh c'mon guys - Peter Dinklage in the scene with the dragons had to have been as bad as any of the acting on FTWD. It was cringeworthy.


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

Cainebj said:


> Oh c'mon guys - Peter Dinklage in the scene with the dragons had to have been as bad as any of the acting on FTWD. It was cringeworthy.


No, no it was not.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The king and the church rule together. Neither can survive without the other. Currently, the king is weaker than usual (a kid whose legitimacy is challenged; son of a usurper), which makes the church stronger than usual. Cersei brought her disgrace upon herself by A) being immoral, and B) getting caught at it. That gave the Sparrow the opportunity to put her in her place. But she did what she had to do to get out of that situation (i.e., escape the death penalty by doing her Walk Of Shame), and now it's her turn to go after the Sparrow.

As I said before, he was pretty ***ing stupid in his choice of enemies. She may be generally clueless, and have way too high an opinion of herself. But she certainly knows how to get somebody.


Cainebj said:


> That I would understand - what I don't get is how the High Sparrow shows up at a funeral chamber with what looked like many soldiers/warriors and the King and Jaime have NO ONE in sight to protect them. That is what I don't get.


I think it's a temple, and they aren't allowed to bring weapons or soldiers in.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think it's a temple, and they aren't allowed to bring weapons or soldiers in.


Well, Jaime had at least a dagger.

All the Sparrow followers were carrying weapons of some sort, I think...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> All the Sparrow followers were carrying weapons of some sort, I think...


It's their temple.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

The problem with the whole Sparrows plot line is that it unfolded too quickly. Cersei came up with the idea to use them in order to get Margaery thrown in prison, and next thing you know they have become this unstoppable mega power. The time frame, or at least the perceived time frame from the audience's perspective, doesn't jive with this being plausible.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gweempose said:


> The problem with the whole Sparrows plot line is that it unfolded too quickly. Cersei came up with the idea to use them in order to get Margaery thrown in prison, and next thing you know they have become this unstoppable mega power. The time frame, or at least the perceived time frame from the audience's perspective, doesn't jive with this being plausible.


The point that's being missed (probably because it hasn't been depicted well on the show) is that the general population of King's Landing hates the royals. So the second it became public knowledge that the High Sparrow had put the queen and the queen mother in jail, he had the undying love and support of the people. It wouldn't take a long time for that support to grow. It would be instantaneous.


----------



## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

Peter Dinklage is the best thing about GoT. The show wouldn't be nearly as good without him. I can't imagine anyone else playing the role better.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

nirisahn said:


> Peter Dinklage is the best thing about GoT. The show wouldn't be nearly as good without him. I can't imagine anyone else playing the role better.


I agree, but I guess that one poster thought he came up short.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> The point that's being missed (probably because it hasn't been depicted well on the show) is that the general population of King's Landing hates the royals.


Yeah, I don't know how it was depicted in the books, but I don't think this point has been made clear at all in the show. In fact, this episode marked the first time I can recall them showing a commoner speaking negatively about one of the royals.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

allan said:


> I agree, but I guess that one poster thought he came up short.


I see what you did there ...


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

bantar said:


> What am I missing with King Tommen? Surely I would think the Kings Guards and Army could take out the High Sparrow and the Faith Militant. Are Tommen and Jamie being held captive and away from the King's Guards? The guards were under orders to keep the queen locked up, so it would seem that they are communicating. I understand that Tommen himself might not have the skills to do the ordering, but surely Jamie could.


Tommen himself ordered her to stay in the red keep, away from the funeral. He was worried that if she came out he couldn't protect her, like before.



gweempose said:


> Yeah, I don't know how it was depicted in the books, but I don't think this point has been made clear at all in the show. In fact, this episode marked the first time I can recall them showing a commoner speaking negatively about one of the royals.


Ceresi's walk of shame didn't look too positive.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

nirisahn said:


> Peter Dinklage is the best thing about GoT. The show wouldn't be nearly as good without him. I can't imagine anyone else playing the role better.


Not to mention GRRM had him in mind the whole time.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Yeah, I don't know how it was depicted in the books, but I don't think this point has been made clear at all in the show. In fact, this episode marked the first time I can recall them showing a commoner speaking negatively about one of the royals.


In earlier seasons we saw a few episodes showing how the commoners in Flea Bottom felt about the royals. I don't remember all the specifics, but wasn't there an episode where Joffrey's coach got stranded among a bunch of peasants? And there was the time when Tywin ordered all the Baratheon bastards to be killed. And there was the time when one of the high-born ladies (can't remember if it was Sansa or Margaery or someone else) was unsupervised in Flea Bottom and was nearly raped.


----------



## ClutchBrake (Sep 5, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> And there was the time when one of the high-born ladies (can't remember if it was Sansa or Margaery or someone else) was unsupervised in Flea Bottom and was nearly raped.


That was Sansa. The Hound saved her.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> For the same reason a country like Egypt can't get rid of the Moslem Brotherhood, for example. You can't just storm a church, kill its leader and a few followers and be done with "religion" or a fanatical movement. You just make martyrs out of them and a 100 people take their place.
> 
> They even went to great length in the previous season to explain how difficult and bloody (and costly) it was to get rid of the fanatics the last time this sort of thing happened.


The Catholic Church essentially ruled Europe for about a 1000 years. No King would do anything without the Pope's blessing. Remember this is "essentially" a middle age, feudal society. The Church is all powerful, even more powerful than royal family as we've seen.

And obviously we've seen religious fanatics run many societies today. Look at the Middle East for proof.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> That I would understand - what I don't get is how the High Sparrow shows up at a funeral chamber with what looked like many soldiers/warriors and the King and Jaime have NO ONE in sight to protect them. That is what I don't get.


Wasn't that in the High Sparrow's Church? Also, you think Jamie walks around everywhere he goes with an army?



> Oh c'mon guys - Peter Dinklage in the scene with the dragons had to have been as bad as any of the acting on FTWD. It was cringeworthy.


I don't watch FTWD, as I have no interest in it so I can't comment. That scene was classic Tyrion, brave but also scared. I think Peter pulls that off well. I'm not sure what you saw that made you think it was bad acting though. He looked pretty darn scared to me.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> The point that's being missed (probably because it hasn't been depicted well on the show) is that the general population of King's Landing hates the royals. So the second it became public knowledge that the High Sparrow had put the queen and the queen mother in jail, he had the undying love and support of the people. It wouldn't take a long time for that support to grow. It would be instantaneous.


I got that from the naked walk. Those were people itching to mock her.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> Oh c'mon guys - Peter Dinklage in the scene with the dragons had to have been as bad as any of the acting on FTWD. It was cringeworthy.


The only thing cringe worthy about that scene was how easy those pins came out of the shackles.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JFriday said:


> The only thing cringe worthy about that scene was how easy those pins came out of the shackles.


True. The dragons themselves were very well rendered. Looked real. But the simple shackle with a pin that would probably fall out on its own was pretty weak.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JFriday said:


> The only thing cringe worthy about that scene was how easy those pins came out of the shackles.


Exactly my thought! There's no way he should have been able to pull those out with one hand. It should have required a hammer and something slender to pound the pins out from the other side. But I'm sure that would be much harder to animate.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

So Jon wakes up, which is great, but he seemed to still be full of stab wounds, how's that work?


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

zordude said:


> So Jon wakes up, which is great, but he seemed to still be full of stab wounds, how's that work?


"It's just a flesh wound!"


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

zordude said:


> So Jon wakes up, which is great, but he seemed to still be full of stab wounds, how's that work?


Didn't that one guy that kept coming back from death have some nasty scars? I'd imagine he'll have some nasty scars.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

The show has not done a good job showing how many people have fled to King's Landing due to war and lack of food in other parts of Westeros. The majority of these people worship The Seven and side with the High Sparrow.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I don't watch FTWD, as I have no interest in it so I can't comment. That scene was classic Tyrion, brave but also scared. I think Peter pulls that off well. I'm not sure what you saw that made you think it was bad acting though. He looked pretty darn scared to me.


The one criticism I would have with Dinklage in this show is that his accent could be better.
And it's really a minor criticism.

He sells me on his character very well and my favorite scene of his is Tyrion's reaction to when The Mountain kills Oberyn.
He doesn't say anything but he conveys Tyrion's realization that he's utterly screwed brilliantly.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

MacThor said:


> Well, they are starting to fall into the trope trap, with both episodes this season including a last minute rescue of the "good guys" surrounded and facing insurmountable odds.


That was my overwhelming thought too.

The Castle Black and Jon Snow story was ridiculously predictable and trope. I was majorly underwhelmed. Boo.

Bolton was great stuff, and I liked that they got back to the boy in the tree and Hodor.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> Has anyone given thought that when Theon said he was going home he means Winterfell?


I immediately thought "which home is he referring to?"

And that includes delivering Sansa and then killing himself.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> True. The dragons themselves were very well rendered. Looked real. But the simple shackle with a pin that would probably fall out on its own was pretty weak.


Yes, that was horrible. There should have been a lock. Or a latch. Or a cotter pin. Something. Little Tyrion got them out with one hand. I'm stunned they didn't simply fall out when the dragons rolled over in their sleep.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

uncdrew said:


> Yes, that was horrible. There should have been a lock. Or a latch. Or a cotter pin. Something. Little Tyrion got them out with one hand. I'm stunned they didn't simply fall out when the dragons rolled over in their sleep.


Probably designed by the same blacksmith who did the gate on the Wall. That guy really got around.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

gweempose said:


> Yeah, I don't know how it was depicted in the books, but I don't think this point has been made clear at all in the show. In fact, this episode marked the first time I can recall them showing a commoner speaking negatively about one of the royals.





DevdogAZ said:


> In earlier seasons we saw a few episodes showing how the commoners in Flea Bottom felt about the royals. I don't remember all the specifics, but wasn't there an episode where Joffrey's coach got stranded among a bunch of peasants? And there was the time when Tywin ordered all the Baratheon bastards to be killed. And there was the time when one of the high-born ladies (can't remember if it was Sansa or Margaery or someone else) was unsupervised in Flea Bottom and was nearly raped.


As DevdogAZ points out, they have made it pretty clear in prior seasons that the peasants weren't big fans of the royals. What they haven't done as well in pointing out - or at least drawn the line connecting the two - is how the Sparrow came in and gave the commoner dislike of the royals a focusing point.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

john4200 said:


> Probably designed by the same blacksmith who did the gate on the Wall. That guy really got around.


He had to move around a lot. No repeat business!


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The show is better than it's ever been! Perhaps in part because as a book reader it's now all new to me. I caught myself thinking "Who needs George R. R. Martin?"


 I told my wife I was bummed because I don't know what's going to happen. She seemed happy about that actually  



Steveknj said:


> One thing I was apparently right about (after being so wrong last week!), The Red Woman was having doubts, and that's why she did what she did the previous week.


 Not sure what you mean by "did what she did"... I still don't think the changing into her "real self" had anything to do with her faith. Maybe she does that before she goes to sleep all the time. Anyway, clearly she's had her faith shaken but I didn't see the dropping of her image as being necessarily related to that.



Shaunnick said:


> I see it more as Ghost woke up as son as Jon came back.


 Yes... I thought Ghost sensed that something was happening.



Cainebj said:


> That I would understand - what I don't get is how the High Sparrow shows up at a funeral chamber with what looked like many soldiers/warriors and the King and Jaime have NO ONE in sight to protect them. That is what I don't get.


 Just to be clear what others have been saying, maybe some people think that the funeral chamber is in the castle... it's not. It's in the sept, which is where the faithful all are, etc.



uncdrew said:


> The Castle Black and Jon Snow story was ridiculously predictable and trope. I was majorly underwhelmed. Boo.


 I agree but on the other hand I don't see what else they could have done. Jon is killed in the books so they couldn't just NOT kill him. Plus I'm sure his killing is an important thing (I'm in the same camp as others here, who have said it's the thing that frees him from his vows when he took the black, without being an oathbreaker). And they had to bring him back because, well, I'm sure we'll discover he's critical to the plot.

So, yeah, it was definitely obvious. But I'm OK with it because I'm interested in what's going to happen next. I mean, I guess probably Sansa shows up, and maybe they go down and kick Ramsey's bolton *ss, which would be good... but maybe not... plus how do the Watch and the Wildlings take it... I don't know!

Here's the thing I'm wondering... two episodes in and not even a hint of Littlefinger...?!?!


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Are they no longer doing GoT as seen through Facebook?


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> Oh c'mon guys - Peter Dinklage in the scene with the dragons had to have been as bad as any of the acting on FTWD. It was cringeworthy.


Between this comment and your opinions posted in the FtWD threads, I have to say I'm incredulous.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Sorry. I love Fear The Walking Dead. I love Game of Thrones. Dinklage was not good in this episode. In my opinion. If you all think he was great - awesome. If you all think FTWD sucks - that's great too, that will not interfere with my enjoyment of the show. It's like The Emmy Awards - why is Dinklage the only one who gets singled out when most of the cast has far superior acting chops? I'd rather watch Lena Headey read the phone book. Kool-aid. Drink it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

SullyND said:


> Are they no longer doing GoT as seen through Facebook?


It appears they stopped partway through S5. The last one I can find is S5E4:

http://www.someecards.com/valarblog...lace-entirely-on-facebook-season-5-episode-4/


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I've never seen any of the Walking Dead franchise. I like GoT and Dinklage has definitely acted well in it. But I agree the dragon scene was pretty bad. Not sure I'd blame him though. Just a poorly conceived and written scene. 

I guess the dragons have a back door launch pad.


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

Finally saw the episode last night. As a book reader this episode was exciting, new and a hint of where the story will go this season to let RR Martin catch up.

But first, when Ramsey stabbed Roose, I said "The Lannisters send their regards".

Now that the Iron Islands story has been introduced, I have a feeling that we will spend a good amount of time with it.

I don't want to comment on Jon's possible warging unto Ghost, because I get the show and the books mixed up


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I guess the dragons have a back door launch pad.


Of course they do. How do you think they got in there in the first place? Heck, they showed Danye walking in through it.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> It's like The Emmy Awards - why is Dinklage the only one who gets singled out when most of the cast has far superior acting chops?


Kinda answered your own question.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Article on the Snow cover up

Game of Thrones: Unraveling the Complex Pack of Lies Behind Jon Snow's
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-lies-cover-up-kit-harington

No GoT spoilers. Maybe a walking dead spoiler,I think from last season.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Is anyone else holding out hope that eventually the sun will rise in the west and set in the east and we'll see the return of Khal Drogo?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

madscientist said:


> I agree but on the other hand I don't see what else they could have done. Jon is killed in the books so they couldn't just NOT kill him. Plus I'm sure his killing is an important thing (I'm in the same camp as others here, who have said it's the thing that frees him from his vows when he took the black, without being an oathbreaker). And they had to bring him back because, well, I'm sure we'll discover he's critical to the plot.


Fine point. I was thinking that too. We all knew it was coming. And if you had asked me three months ago I would have guessed "he'll be revived at the very end of episode 2"

I think they should have just done it early in episode 1 and been done with it.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

goblue97 said:


> Is anyone else holding out hope that eventually the sun will rise in the west and set in the east and we'll see the return of Khal Drogo?


his body was cremated. So I doubt it.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

The power that the High Sparrow has goes back to the riddle that Varys told Tyrion in Season 2...






"Power resides where men believe it resides."


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Pretty interesting read on how they kept the secret of Jon Snow's return.



> But even Martin hasnt been very precious with Jon Snows potential return. Oh, you think hes dead, do you? the author said of Snow way back in 2011 and, more recently, If theres one thing we know in A Song of Ice and Fire its that death is not necessarily permanent.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> Pretty interesting read on how they kept the secret of Jon Snow's return.


Thanks, smeek.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

This gives me hope for an eventual appearance by the character I shall dub "Headdard Stark"


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

It's good to see Jon alive. Does this mean he will lead the fight against the White Walkers, or does he simply need to serve some other purpose before dying again?

Perhaps a cripple, a mother, a bastard, and a dwarf all have a role to play in the coming war. And perhaps nobody will ultimately matter in the end.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Anubys said:


> his body was cremated. So I doubt it.


Dany had a conversation with someone in the last episode that made me think it was still possible.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Flop said:


> Ramsey is just evil with no pretense otherwise. The High Sparrow is a sanctimonious evil prick who cloaks his deeds in religion. I agree with his ordering of these two.


I don't think the High Sparrow has any hidden agenda. Everything we've seen has indicated that he is honestly following his beliefs. Ramsey, on the other hand, killed is own men simply to pretend to be Theon's ally. And now he has killed his own father, and is lying about his death.

Let's also not forget how Ramsey was born, by Roose raping a woman under the dead body of her husband whom he had hanged because they had gotten married without his consent.

And while the High Sparrow has supported imprisoning and beating people, that is nothing compared to skinning people alive.

The High Sparrow's views of torture, marriage, and probably many other things are nowhere near as extreme as that of the Boltons.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

JYoung said:


> The one criticism I would have with Dinklage in this show is that his accent could be better.
> And it's really a minor criticism.
> 
> He sells me on his character very well and my favorite scene of his is Tyrion's reaction to when The Mountain kills Oberyn.
> He doesn't say anything but he conveys Tyrion's realization that he's utterly screwed brilliantly.


Yeah, if the show was supposed to be in England, I'd agree. That the show is in Westeros, who knows what the accent is supposed to be. Is there a Kings Landing accent? Is it different than a Winterfell accent?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> I immediately thought "which home is he referring to?"
> 
> And that includes delivering Sansa and then killing himself.


He was talking to Sansa when he mentioned he was going "home". To Sansa, home is Winterfell, and since Theon grew up there, it's home too in some respects. Could we be getting some misdirection with the whole Iron Islands stuff and he's going back to Winterfell to eventually confront Ramsey?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> He was talking to Sansa when he mentioned he was going "home". To Sansa, home is Winterfell, and since Theon grew up there, it's home too in some respects. Could we be getting some misdirection with the whole Iron Islands stuff and he's going back to Winterfell to eventually confront Ramsey?


could be, but I seriously doubt it. How would he confront him? He's got a horse, and maybe a knife and a sword?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> He was talking to Sansa when he mentioned he was going "home". To Sansa, home is Winterfell, and since Theon grew up there, it's home too in some respects. Could we be getting some misdirection with the whole Iron Islands stuff and he's going back to Winterfell to eventually confront Ramsey?


He's certainly broken free of Ramsey's grip (to some degree). His life is pretty horrendous. I could see wanting to kill Ramsey or die trying being his next main objective after saving Sansa.

Perhaps he can kill Jon Snow and Ramsey at the same time at Castle Black. :up:


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

I would think that wherever Ramsey is (Winterfell) is the last place that Theon/Reek would want to go.


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Theon saying home, to me, was the Iron Throne. Not Winderfell. It didn't and doesn't occur to me that he means anything else. Especially since they have the unrest there at the moment. He's going to arrive and things will start happening there. I suspect that he and his sister will form an alliance then they will actually become a force that works with the other north folk against Bolton.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

jakerock said:


> Theon saying home, to me, was the Iron Throne. Not Winderfell. It didn't and doesn't occur to me that he means anything else. Especially since they have the unrest there at the moment. He's going to arrive and things will start happening there. I suspect that he and his sister will form an alliance then they will actually become a force that works with the other north folk against Bolton.


Yep. He just jumped off a really tall wall to escape from Winterfell. No way he goes back while the Boltons are there, if he doesn't have to.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

jakerock said:


> Theon saying home, to me, was the Iron Throne.


The Iron Throne is in King's Landing.

I guess you meant the Iron Islands.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

uncdrew said:


> Perhaps he can kill Jon Snow and Ramsey at the same time at Castle Black. :up:


Why would he kill Jon Snow?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Yeah, if the show was supposed to be in England, I'd agree. That the show is in Westeros, who knows what the accent is supposed to be. Is there a Kings Landing accent? Is it different than a Winterfell accent?


Not that I've really noticed.
I didn't notice Ned Stark's accent being much different from anyone else's.

Dinklege is trying to do an English accent but, well, it's not great.
But like I said, minor complaint.
I've seen plenty of actors trying so hard to do a different accent to the point where it compromises their performance.



uncdrew said:


> Perhaps he can kill Jon Snow and Ramsey at the same time at Castle Black. :up:


Jon Snow just came back to life and you want to kill him off again?
You meanie!


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Robin said:


> Why would he kill Jon Snow?


Apparently not a fan...


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## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

john4200 said:


> The Iron Throne is in King's Landing.
> 
> I guess you meant the Iron Islands.


Indeed it is. Indeed I did.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

JYoung said:


> Not that I've really noticed.
> I didn't notice Ned Stark's accent being much different from anyone else's.
> 
> Dinklege is trying to do an English accent but, well, it's not great.


I think it's pretty good. In fact, I think he, his siblings and father all sound posh English (I know Charles Dance actually is)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

john4200 said:


> The Iron Throne is in King's Landing.
> 
> I guess you meant the Iron Islands.


Iron Throne

Iron Islands

Iron Born

Iron Shirts

So much iron.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Raisltin Majere said:


> I think it's pretty good. In fact, I think he, his siblings and father all sound posh English (I know Charles Dance actually is)


He doesn't sound anything like the rest of his family to me. I agree that his accent is pretty poor, but his performance is so good I'm willing to forgive it.

(He actually sounds closer to Boston Brahmin than posh English...)


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Yeah, I wasn't very clear there sorry. They all sound like posh English people, they don't all have the same accent


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Iron Throne
> 
> Iron Islands
> 
> ...


Iron Bank


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Iron Throne
> Iron Islands
> Iron Born
> Iron Shirts
> So much iron.





heySkippy said:


> Iron Bank


Pay the Iron Price


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Iron Throne
> 
> Iron Islands
> 
> ...





heySkippy said:


> Iron Bank




















(And he's a Stark!)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JYoung said:


> (And he's a Stark!)


Perfect.


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

goblue97 said:


> Is anyone else holding out hope that eventually the sun will rise in the west and set in the east and we'll see the return of Khal Drogo?





TAsunder said:


> This gives me hope for an eventual appearance by the character I shall dub "Headdard Stark"





goblue97 said:


> Dany had a conversation with someone in the last episode that made me think it was still possible.


I know this is a fantasy show based on a fantasy book series, but based on the rules of the show, what can possibly make you think any of these ideas?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I'd love to see a throwdown between Ned (with no head) and Drogo (a walking pile of ashes)...


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Yeah, if the show was supposed to be in England, I'd agree. That the show is in Westeros, who knows what the accent is supposed to be. Is there a Kings Landing accent? Is it different than a Winterfell accent?


Kings Landing is in the south, and they have the posh English accent. Winterfell is in the North, and they have the common Northern peasant accent like what I do. My favorite accent belongs to Davos though. Toon Army, even though I think the actor himself is Irish!


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

JYoung said:


> (And he's a Stark!)


Obligatory


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

ozzman73 said:


> I know this is a fantasy show based on a fantasy book series, but based on the rules of the show, what can possibly make you think any of these ideas?


You quoted my answer. But, Dany had said something this episode to one of the Dothraki about doing something until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. Isn't that what the witch lady (?) told her had to happen for Drogo to be brought back to life? Also, I don't remember his death scene and can't remember him being shown as a pile of ashes. It's entirely possible that he was, but that was a long time ago and I don't recall that detail.

Now, let's be perfectly clear....I'm not expecting this to happen, I just hope that it could.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

goblue97 said:


> You quoted my answer. But, Dany had said something this episode to one of the Dothraki about doing something until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. Isn't that what the witch lady (?) told her had to happen for Drogo to be brought back to life? Also, I don't remember his death scene and can't remember him being shown as a pile of ashes. It's entirely possible that he was, but that was a long time ago and I don't recall that detail.
> 
> Now, let's be perfectly clear....I'm not expecting this to happen, I just hope that it could.


That is the Dothraki euphemism for "will never happen", IMHO.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Robin said:


> Why would he kill Jon Snow?


Because uncdrew thinks dead people should stay dead.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> You quoted my answer. But, Dany had said something this episode to one of the Dothraki about doing something until the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. Isn't that what the witch lady (?) told her had to happen for Drogo to be brought back to life?


This was referring to Danerys having another baby, not Drogo coming back to life.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> Also, I don't remember his death scene and can't remember him being shown as a pile of ashes. It's entirely possible that he was, but that was a long time ago and I don't recall that detail.


He certainly wasn't shown as a "pile of ashes" but it was a raging funeral pyre that burnt Drogo and Mirri Maz Durr, burned all Danerys' clothes and hatched her dragon eggs. Unfortunately, Kahl Drogo will not be back.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

BrettStah said:


> That is the Dothraki euphemism for "will never happen", IMHO.


Better analogy to us would be "when hell freezes over".


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> Better analogy to us would be "when hell freezes over".


Winter is coming. It probably will.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He doesn't sound anything like the rest of his family to me. I agree that his accent is pretty poor, but his performance is so good I'm willing to forgive it.
> 
> (He actually sounds closer to Boston Brahmin than posh English...)


Now that I've thought about it, I don't think that accents are really Dinklage's forte.

In Pixels, he tried to do a Southern accent that he really didn't pull off.
Fortunately for him, that was far from the worst thing about a terrible movie.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

BrettStah said:


> Better analogy to us would be "when hell freezes over".


Ok. I totally get it now. I will officially give up hope.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> Better analogy to us would be "when hell freezes over".


Or in Westeros, the saying should be "when winter comes" since it has been six years now and it still hasn't shown up.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Or in Westeros, the saying should be "when winter comes" since it has been six years now and it still hasn't shown up.


But that would mean the opposite, since in Westeros winter always comes eventually.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Or in Westeros, the saying should be "when winter comes" since it has been six years now and it still hasn't shown up.


It's been shorter than that in the storyline.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But that would mean the opposite, since in Westeros winter always comes eventually.


Yep, and it's pretty well accepted that winter can come before too.

"When pigs fly" is another way of getting the point across.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BrettStah said:


> "When pigs fly" is another way of getting the point across.


No, that doesn't work...we've seen that they have catapults in Westeros.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But that would mean the opposite, since in Westeros winter always comes eventually.


We know that why?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> We know that why?


We know there has been previous winters, and multiple people have said "winter is coming".


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> We know there has been previous winters, and multiple people have said "winter is coming".


Winter in westeros does not seem to be tied to the years. We've been through at least one. Winter is not winter as we know it. So it may never come again. We are all Jon Snow. We know nothing.

Besides, dammit, it was a JOKE.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

BrettStah said:


> We know there has been previous winters, and multiple people have said "winter is coming".


It is known.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

And in next week's episode:










--Carlos V.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> It is known.


It is known.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Mr. Soze said:


> Kings Landing is in the south, and they have the posh English accent. Winterfell is in the North, and they have the common Northern peasant accent like what I do. My favorite accent belongs to Davos though. Toon Army, even though I think the actor himself is Irish!


It's funny, but I wonder why any of these people have English accents at all? This isn't England, it's Westeros. They could all really speak Klingon!! Or English with a Canadian accent, or Aussie accent? Did GRRM say in the books that they all speak with any type of UK accent?

Yeah, I know, it's an old movie trope that any show that takes place in what is perceived to be the Middle Ages that all characters are supposed to have English accents. Even though we have no idea that Middle Age English sounds anything like Modern English (the accent, not the band  )


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ancient Rome, too.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

TampaThunder said:


> He certainly wasn't shown as a "pile of ashes" but it was a raging funeral pyre that burnt Drogo and Mirri Maz Durr, burned all Danerys' clothes and hatched her dragon eggs. Unfortunately, Kahl Drogo will not be back.


Hey, Jon Snow came back. Why not Drogo. I'd rather have Drogo back than boring Jon Snow.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> It's funny, but I wonder why any of these people have English accents at all? This isn't England, it's Westeros. They could all really speak Klingon!! Or English with a Canadian accent, or Aussie accent? Did GRRM say in the books that they all speak with any type of UK accent?
> 
> Yeah, I know, it's an old movie trope that any show that takes place in what is perceived to be the Middle Ages that all characters are supposed to have English accents. Even though we have no idea that Middle Age English sounds anything like Modern English (the accent, not the band  )


I thought this was great when I first saw it last year.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> It's funny, but I wonder why any of these people have English accents at all? This isn't England, it's Westeros. They could all really speak Klingon!! Or English with a Canadian accent, or Aussie accent? Did GRRM say in the books that they all speak with any type of UK accent? Yeah, I know, it's an old movie trope that any show that takes place in what is perceived to be the Middle Ages that all characters are supposed to have English accents. Even though we have no idea that Middle Age English sounds anything like Modern English (the accent, not the band  )


The question is what accent do they speak in when they speak dothraki?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> The question is what accent do they speak in when they speak dothraki?


Dothrakian.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Dothrakian.


Not welsh?


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