# Directv: out of tivo's



## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

Directv just advised that from now on, all equipment replacements are R15's rather than Tivos, as they have officially run completely out of stock

fyi


edit: this of course excludes HR10-250s


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## T1V0 (Jun 14, 2006)

Been waiting for that. If anyone needs any sd-tivos I've got several spares. With or without hard drives.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Not surprising...

Since they stopped making the HR10-250's over a year ago...
And I don't think R10's have been produced in a year either.


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## vector1701 (Nov 15, 2004)

Way to go Direct TV....Way to lose customers as Cable firms sign up WITH Tivo...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

vector1701 said:


> Way to go Direct TV....Way to lose customers as Cable firms sign up WITH Tivo...


Ahh... but just take a look around...
There are just as many people that had enough with Cable-Co's that they are going to SAT providers.

The TiVo's and DirecTV is hardly any "braking" news story.. it has been known for well over a year....

And I don't see DirecTV's subscribers numbers plumeting (sp?), nor Cable-Co's going through the roof..

And based on the threads in the T3 forum.... cable-co's are not too "helpfull" with regards to gettin the T3 up and running on "their" systems.

Comcast's Tivo was announced what 18 months ago? still not out.
And little is known about it (Feature wise), and if one thing the T3 release has shown... don't assume all of the "TiVo" features are there.... unless they are specifically listed.

Cox's TiVo was just announced a few weeks ago... so you are still looking at multiple months possible longer till that goes....

So yah... way to go.... It takes two to tango...


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Ahh... but just take a look around...


Earl,

I have! 

New subscriber counts at DirecTV have taken a huge historical NOSE DIVE over the last year (and have been trending down over the last five years), although the CHURN rate has dropped (aka RETENTION DEPARTMENT).

The Cable and Telco companies are offering the triple play (Voice (Phone), Video (TV), and Internet) and they are eating DirecTVs lunch, which is one of may reasons that Murdoch is planning on dumping the "TURD BIRD"; also factor in the failed "Wireless" airwaves auction last month (see last paragraph below), which goes back to Murdoch's original plan to fight back against the Telco and Cable companies wired two-way capabilities to offer true VOD, VoIP, video downloads, etc.

It appears that after Murdoch found out that he couldn't reasonably purchase enough bandwidth (wired or wireless; (and of course purchase enough two-way satellite bandwidth, which would have cost huge sums of money)) to cover the US to allow DirecTV to compete with the companies that are now eating into his growth subscriber base, DirecTV became the "TURD BIRD".

Of course, Murdoch really doesn't want any potential buyer/stock trader to fully understand the Structural Dis-functionality that the Satellite Entertainment Business aka TURD BIRD has.

I have been waving my arms for almost two years now about the lack of two-way communications capability of the satellite entertainment business and the bandwidth problem, but very few people seem to understand what that means for the long-term competitiveness of DirecTV.

IMHO, the entertainment satellite business is on a very slow long-term downward slide without additional bandwidth and two-way communications capability. Murdoch was planning on purchasing enough wireless bandwidth capability in the auction last month and entered into a partnership with Echostar Communications Corp (aka Dish Network) to help share and defray the costs. I believe and it was reported that the partnership found that the bidding outstripped their capability to compete and acquire the licenses, so they dropped out. I really believe that was the end of the TURD BIRD as far as Murdoch was concerned. IMHO, after Wireless DBS failed to acquire any licenses, Murdoch finally realized that the TURD BIRD cannot compete long-term, so it was a time to find a way out of the business.

Funny or not, Murdoch made many bad decisions and some decisions that would have worked many years ago after taking over DirecTV, in other words Murdoch was a "Day Late and a Dollar Short".

Let all us hope that whoever ends up with DirecTV (maybe Liberty Media Corporation), that they understand the business and its current competitive structural problems and limitations, and doesn't make the same bad decisions that Murdoch made that kept us on edge.

*Additional Thoughts:*

_*Murdoch and his people likely don't understand, that through their bad decisions Murdoch and his people turned DirecTV into the "TURD BIRD".*_ 

_August 17, 2006: Wireless DBS, a partnership between EchoStar Communications and DirecTV, has dropped out of the competition in the federal government's airwaves auction. Wireless DBS started the auction with 648 million bidding units, which is a measure of how many potential wireless customers the company can reach. By the end of the day Tuesday, the total had dropped to 300,000._


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## patonenow (Jul 22, 2005)

TBECKNER, I totally agree with you. And if D* ever stops the use of tivo then I am gone for good.(Back to my big satellites).
And EARL although I respect you and value most of your input I have to say lately you almost sound like you are connected with D* in some way. If you are it would be nice and upfront to at least inform us.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

patonenow said:


> TBECKNER, I totally agree with you. And if D* ever stops the use of tivo then I am gone for good.(Back to my big satellites).
> And EARL although I respect you and value most of your input I have to say lately you almost sound like you are connected with D* in some way. If you are it would be nice and upfront to at least inform us.


I have had the "same tone" about the product for a VERY long time now...
Sorry it seems to be out of a different pair of glasses.

So what part of my post was "false" ? Or "praising" DirecTV? Just because I don't think TiVo can do no wrong?

I don't work for DirecTV (nor TiVo).... I pay my 3 digit DirecTV bill every month, just like the rest of you....

Ah well...... The products, and carriers speak for themselves....
It all boils down to how you want to interpret what is out there.

I see it one way, other see it a different way, and others see yet another way, and so on....

And Me and Tbecker have been going back and forth for a long time now... I have a deep respect for his opinions, and I feel he has respect for mine.... (at least I know he won't let me get away with a "false" statement  )


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

Well frankly, I'm NOT surprised at this, either - it was bound to happen sooner or later...  
Also, D* really does NOT want to support Tivo's in ANY form, anyway, so it's another win for them.
While I realize the majority of the D-Tivo users have NO idea the D-Tivo's would eventually be gone, the ones that DID know really should have planned ahead, as I did, if they wanted to stick with a DVR they know & trust.  
I have TWO brand-new D-Tivo's (an 80hr & a 120hr) sitting in boxes on my shelf, ready to be swapped if something happens to any of the 4 I'm currently using. I got them off e-bay, right before D* went to the lease BS, as I could see the supply of new ones was rapidly drying up, AND before the prices went sky-high, as they have done. (No, there was NO requirement that I had to activate them immediately) I did take them out of the boxes & hook them up to test, as well as to get them updated to 6.2, just in case the update was NO longer available.

Bottom line - right now about the ONLY place to still get D-Tivo's is from e-bay or Weaknees & eventually THOSE will all be dwindling down to nothing...


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## T1V0 (Jun 14, 2006)

dishrich said:


> I have TWO brand-new D-Tivo's (an 80hr & a 120hr) sitting in boxes on my shelf, ready to be swapped if something happens to any of the 4 I'm currently using. I got them off e-bay, right before D* went to the lease BS, as I could see the supply of new ones was rapidly drying up, AND before the prices went sky-high, as they have done. (No, there was NO requirement that I had to activate them immediately) I did take them out of the boxes & hook them up to test, as well as to get them updated to 6.2, just in case the update was NO longer available.


Same here. I've got a stack of spare unused tivos sitting around. All bought from Ebay when the R15 came out.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> And Me and Tbeckner have been going back and forth for a long time now... I have a deep respect for his opinions, and I feel he has respect for mine.... (at least I know he won't let me get away with a "false" statement  )


Same here Earl, and I have supported some of your posts and opinions when many others didn't. In fact last month when everyone was giving you a bad time about the 6.3 upgrade, I told them to calm down and understand that 6.3 would not be released until DirecTV had released the HR20 nationwide in September and believe it or not but the 6.3 upgrade started to download on the same morning that the HR20 was announced by DirecTV to be available nationwide.

Yes, Earl I do respect your opinions and your INSIDE information. I DON'T believe you are a shill, but you do like DirecTV, but then again I like DirecTV, but just not all of the decisions that Murdoch has made, because some of those decisions good or bad can affect my relationship with the company and my enjoyment.

Actually, I find it somewhat depressing that Murdoch and his people really didn't understand what they got into, when they bought a controlling share of DirecTV. And in the long run *all of us* will pay for their lack of understanding; it is a very sad story indeed.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

I hope my DTiVos run forever. I'm not sure what I would do if one of them fails. Yuck to the R15 in its current 'one live buffer' state.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

I have 1 HR10, and an R10 activated at the moment. I'd like to get another HR10, and then I think I'll be set for awhile. I have no intention of actually upgrading to HD until probably 2007. The hard drives seem to be easy enough to replace form Weaknees, so I don't see why they shouldn't be of use for some time, unless Directv decides to kill them lol


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I'd guess almost 90% of my TV-watching comes from the broadcast networks (ignoring my catching reruns of long-past things on cable channels, at least). All I really need is a way to get TNT, FX, SCIFI and ABC Family content plus HBO and SHO original series content via broadband and I'm poised to dump DirecTV and not even go to cable. I could even go as high as $100 a month in viewing fees for broadband content and still pay less each month than I am now.

We're getting closer to that point. For $20 a month you can get about 20-30 channels now from AT&T/MobiTV. All that's missing is a way to deliver that content to a DVR rather than it being limited to watching live via Media Player.

Of course one could always temporarily utilize Bittorrent to gain access to those shows, but it would be better to have a legal way of gaining access to that programming.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

scheme I just cooked up in my bizzarre little mind:
Murdoch dumps DTV. Liberty buys em, re-instates relations with TiVo inc. Series 2 receivers begin to roll off assembly lines again.
Even more bizzare and unlikely because I imagine it's a massive undertaking: DTV adopts cablecard spec. Series 3 Tivo's work with DTV.

Murdoch very nearly screwed us all and I sincerely hope he's gone soon.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Short statement from DirecTV to their employees:

*TiVo Receiver Replacement * 
Effective immediately, all ERP orders for TiVo DVRs will be fulfilled only with the DIRECTV Plus DVR (R15). TiVo receivers are no longer in stock for receiver replacement (does not include HR10-250). In OMS, you can still select both TiVo and R15, but only R15s are being delivered for all ERP orders for DVR. Supervisors: Do not attempt to order a TiVo DVR through Logistics - they do not have any available. Within the next few days, DIRECTV.com will have a "TiVo to DIRECTV Plus" help sheet available for customers with TiVos who are receiving an R15 as their replacement.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

they should send another memo to retention instructing them to tell customers that they can find DTivos on Ebay.  This decision while not effecting new customers, will probably anger more than a handful of tivo owners when their tivo's die and need replacing.


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## redondoman (Dec 1, 2002)

DirecTv can do whatever they want. As soon as Internet Distributed TV gets the quality up and the distribution methods solid. I will be cancelling the satellite. I already get phone service over the internet and that cut my phone bill by almost $85 a month.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

TheMerk said:


> Within the next few days, DIRECTV.com will have a "TiVo to DIRECTV Plus" help sheet available for customers with TiVos who are receiving an R15 as their replacement.


Can't wait to see what that looks like


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ping said:


> Can't wait to see what that looks like


If you remember the remarks of the DirecTV spokesman when the R15 was released last year, "R15 is meant to enhanced the watching of Live TV!".

So, this guide will likely have a title of *"WATCHING LIVE TV with YOUR DIRECTV DVR PLUS"*.


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

DirecTV DOES have two way communication. It's called the Internet. They just have to decide to use it on their DVRs. 

But it's all moot, anyway. Within ten years, all prerecorded content will come to our DVRs via the Internet, anyway. We'll only need the likes of DirecTV for live stuff.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

redondoman said:


> DirecTv can do whatever they want. As soon as Internet Distributed TV gets the quality up and the distribution methods solid. I will be cancelling the satellite. I already get phone service over the internet and that cut my phone bill by almost $85 a month.


You'll be waiting a long time if you want a COMPLETE replacement.

You probably never watched the Tivo CTO's (Barton) lecture given at UC Berkeley many years ago (before Series 2s came out), but he basically said it like this: If you go w/video on demand, you have to build for the worst case. Unfortunately, the cost of the infrastructure and equipment goes to nearly infinity when you do that. It was his argument for broadcasting most of the content and using devices like PVRs.

If you think about it, it's kinda true. For instance, 90.7 million people were estimated to watch the last Superbowl (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/06/superbowl/main1288104.shtml). Can you imagine an on-demand (with trick play features [ff/rew/pause]; not multicast) stream at say even only 1 megabit/sec to that many people? Let's take a recent example but on a much smaller scale... Steve Jobs' recent keynote at WWDC was totally UNWATCHABLE due to video hiccups and server too busy messages for an ENTIRE day. It wasn't watchable until the next day. I experienced this first hand.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> I don't work for DirecTV


I'm glad to see that firmly stated. The notion that you are recieving compensation from DirecTV is something I've never believed to be true, and I'm glad the air has been cleared. You have received no consideration from DirecTV in exchange for your advocacy here, which is simply your honest preference, nothing more. Glad this isssue has been put to rest!


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## extension 721 (Sep 29, 2005)

Directv was doing much better before murdoch. It was partly the decision to go with in-house boxes developed by NDS that messed them up. Who called THAT shot? Since murdoch, Directv has been in a "milking" phase, turing cash profits instead of growth.

One thing for sure, they're much less focused on the "low rent" customers that Dish and basic (analog) cable attracts.

As an installer for a Directv contractor, I cannot tell youhow many times...maybe 1 install of 50, I'd put the dish up and right there, in PLAIN SIGHT, on the kitchen table was a notice of shutoff for nonpayment from dish or comcast...and those were the ones who left it out in the open!

Directv has worked on shunning "high risk" customers which has dramatically slowed their growth...but that IS the reason they churn out less. 

The REAL reason companies love triple-play and dvrs is that people are loath to leave with them. triple-play won't save THAT much money. My phone/dsl is maybe $60 a month, all inclusive. My friend pays $70 for cable internet, and $10 for VOIP on top of that. If I'm out of power for a week, my phone will still work. She gets better long distance rates. I can always use skype. Her internet is faster, but neither of us notice any difference except when downloading huge video files.

The reason companies love triple play is that you'd rather put up with them than have to sign up again for video, internet AND phone.

And the reason companies LOVE dvr is that no-one wants to "lose their video library" so they'd rather put up with their current situation than switch.


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

extension 721 said:


> Directv was doing much better before murdoch. It was partly the decision to go with in-house boxes developed by NDS that messed them up. Who called THAT shot? Since murdoch, Directv has been in a "milking" phase, turing cash profits instead of growth.


I'm thinking some freshly graduated MBA came in and said that if they developed their own box that they could save on the one dollar royalty per customer they need to pay to Tivo each month, and that after R&D had been recouped, that extra dollar per sub would be pure profit.

They apparently think that one DVR is just as good as any other, and that consumers will just accept whatever is given them.

It's a common mistake corporations make these days. Lure the customers in and then slowly take away the reasons why the customer was attracted in the first place. It's arrogance, it's not understanding the market, and it shows a complete disregard for competition.

If Dish Network aligns with Tivo, I'll cancel DirecTV in a second. The only reason keeping me from Dish is that their DVR is currently inferior to the Tivo boxes. It used to be Sunday Ticket keeping me at Direct, but they priced that beyond ridiculousness.

There aren't too many reasons to be attracted to DirecTV anymore.


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## DTVPro (Jun 24, 2005)

there aren't as many tivo lovers as you think as a % of DTV customers


1) a smaller % of customers for DTV even HAVE dvrs

2) most of these customers have come since DTV REALLY started pushing and giving away the R15's

3) A lot of common customers (especially older people I noticed) find the R15 better. 
Common menu's with their other DTV recievers (this was always a problem imo, old people found it confusing having everything so different, ie on D10 series and then goto tivo)


I have several tivo's and have an R15, and the longer I have the R15 the more I've come to really like it and now I pretty much do most of my tv watching and series recordings on the R15 and just use my Tivo's to record movies (since I still do have more faith in it not failing)


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