# No Disney+ App?



## jakryk (May 18, 2006)

Will TiVo be getting the Disney+ App or are they locked into NetFlix/Hulu?


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## Slumpert (Oct 18, 2019)

Yea, I too was hoping TiVo would have pulled off getting the app.

The standard status line that it’s not TiVo’s fault is likely BS. 
Would not surprise me if TiVo tried to get some sort of payout from Disney for allowing access to its users. 

Disney likely has programmers set aside just for porting the app to multiple platforms, it literally wouldn’t cost them more than their existing payroll give us the app.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Slumpert said:


> The standard status line that it's not TiVo's fault is likely BS.


It's not BS, Disney has to decide if they feel it's worth producing a Tivo specific app and it makes perfect sense for them not to for such a small niche market.


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## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

Agree, it would be nice if Disney+ did arrive on TiVo. It is actually a fairly basic app all things told. I purchased a FireTV 4K stick for $29 and couldn't be happier. Plex and all the other apps are much better and updated more often not to mention it is more powerful hardware so just plain works better. As much as I would like to use TiVo for everything, the reality that is unless TiVo integrates AndroidTV into their platform, it will always lag behind and be a niche offering with limited support. 

A good example of this is the Xfinity on demand streaming app, TiVo lost support for on demand natively on the devices and yet you can access it on LG TV or other devices like Roku via the new app which ironically isn't on TiVo...

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo uses the same HTML5 app platform that older Sunmsung TVs use. On top of that they have a very convoluted way of submitting an app to TiVo for inclusion on he system. And in addition to all that they have less than 100k users. The only new apps we're getting are from little startups that are targeting everything. We've specifically been told that we will never get the newest Hulu.

This is why the next Mini will run Android TV. It's the only way for them to stay current on the apps without having to manage it all themselves. Still not sure why they didn’t go that same route with the Edge.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

Now that Tivo+ is here I think it is less likely that Tivo will ever add any new apps to their platform. Any time you spend watching these other apps is less potential time you could spend watching Tivo+.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I've abandoned TiVo Apps completely, they're old, slow, and basically disappointing or broken; not worth bothering with at all anymore. Now I move back and forth between Roku and FireTV for them. I'm favoring Roku right now because FireTV annoys me with it making the Amazon stuff more a built-in part of the interface than all the app stuff and for lack of any real TiVo-like integration of content from multiple parties, I just want to go to the app I want and get what it offers from there and be done with it.

Heck, I don't really even want it built into my TV anymore because I'm tired of old crappy penny pinching slow CPUs in that part of the hardware and no way to upgrade that portion of the system.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Adam C. said:


> Now that Tivo+ is here I think it is less likely that Tivo will ever add any new apps to their platform. Any time you spend watching these other apps is less potential time you could spend watching Tivo+.


I spend 95%+ of my time watching apps. The 5% I watch actual TiVo is because there are still a few shows I can't get via apps without commercials


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

It's just not worth it to make many of these apps for Tivo. Not enough users. Not worth it to design and maintain and support.

It's also completely irrelevant to you as a consumer whether Disney isn't bothering (true) or some greedy Tivo exec is trying to extort money from Disney (unlikely). Either way you don't have the app and either way there's nothing you can do about it.


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## Slumpert (Oct 18, 2019)

fyodor said:


> Either way you don't have the app and either way there's nothing you can do about it.


But there is "something" I can do about it, my next hardware purchase will be supported by Disney.

I dont understand where these "low" installed base numbers are coming from, from TiVo Wiki "As of January 31, 2016, TiVo reported 6.8 million subscribers.[33]"


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

Once there is a TiVo app for the Apple TV, maybe I'll never have to use the TiVo UI again


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Right, I mean, there's nothing you can do about it in terms of your Tivo not playing it. Even for the apps that exist in some form on Tivo, I don't use any of my Tivo's streaming capabilities. It's easier for me to just switch to my Android TV or Roku and have a better app experience. And you can get a 4K ftv or Roku for 40 bucks.



Slumpert said:


> But there is "something" I can do about it, my next hardware purchase will be supported by Disney.
> 
> I dont understand where these "low" installed base numbers are coming from, from TiVo Wiki "As of January 31, 2016, TiVo reported 6.8 million subscribers.[33]"


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Very unlikely to see any new substantial apps on the linux-based Tivos. The android dongle next year may be different.

My WAG is that the ultimate goal of Tivo Plus is to pull an amazon/hulu/apple and provide subscriptions *through* Plus to circumvent the need for dedicated apps.


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## silver01 (May 31, 2009)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo uses the same HTML5 app platform that older Sunmsung TVs use. On top of that they have a very convoluted way of submitting an app to TiVo for inclusion on he system. And in addition to all that they have less than 100k users. The only new apps we're getting are from little startups that are targeting everything. We've specifically been told that we will never get the newest Hulu.
> 
> This is why the next Mini will run Android TV. It's the only way for them to stay current on the apps without having to manage it all themselves. Still not sure why they didn't go that same route with the Edge.


todays headline, "Disney+ Reaches 10 Million Subscribers" I would hope if a service has 10 million subscribers in less then a week that TiVo would find a way to include it


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

silver01 said:


> todays headline, "Disney+ Reaches 10 Million Subscribers" I would hope if a service has 10 million subscribers in less then a week that TiVo would find a way to include it


TiVo does not make the apps, the streaming services do.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

dswallow said:


> I've abandoned TiVo Apps completely, they're old, slow, and basically disappointing or broken; not worth bothering with at all anymore. Now I move back and forth between Roku and FireTV for them. I'm favoring Roku right now because FireTV annoys me with it making the Amazon stuff more a built-in part of the interface than all the app stuff and for lack of any real TiVo-like integration of content from multiple parties, I just want to go to the app I want and get what it offers from there and be done with it.
> 
> Heck, I don't really even want it built into my TV anymore because I'm tired of old crappy penny pinching slow CPUs in that part of the hardware and no way to upgrade that portion of the system.


*Can we all give Doug an AMEN for his comments!*


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Down in the weeds: Disney Says Disney Plus Has Over 10 Million Sign-Ups After Launch Day

It started the signup in August.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

Hot off the press from TiVo Support on Twitter.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

More here from Facebook.


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

The only new apps will be garbage apps like TiVo+ unless they decide to update our TiVos with an Android based platform. Major third party app developers aren't going to be bothered writing for a platform no one else uses. Consumer customers, who put TiVo on the map, have been abandoned in favor of Cable MSO's who apparantly have the android platform already. They've become a dirty company and I hope the Edge falls flat on its face as that is money they could have put into talented developers to bring a real UI and app platform to Roamios and Bolts. You can complain on Facebook or send a suggestion, but all you're going to get is Rovi corporate canned answers. A now overpriced, ad-based mediocre dvr with a horrible UI and terrible app platform, that's where we are at today.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Can someone tell me why the Prime Video app is hated on the Tivo devices? My Roamio plus handles the app just fine. Literally no different than my Samsung 4k. Except for the 4k part.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

dswallow said:


> I've abandoned TiVo Apps completely, they're old, slow, and basically disappointing or broken


I love the old netflix app on my Roamio: no auto preview! The Vudu, YouTube, and HBO apps are identical to the ones in my new (July) Samsung TV, albeit just slower. Biggest limitation, for me, of using my Roamio's apps are that the Roamio doesn't do 4K, so neither can its apps (Netflix/Vudu). I didn't mind the Tivo apps' sluggishness until I got the the new TV and then got used its nice and snappy apps. But, I do absolutely detest the auto-preview in the "latest and greatest" Netflix app that the Samsung has.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I really don't understand why the modern Netflix apps (i.e. not Tivo) don't offer an option to not auto-preview every damn thing I scroll to. VERY annoying.


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## jimbayne (Feb 17, 2016)

So Tivo's response is go ask Disney to make it... please?
What a joke... I really like Tivo but I guess for this I have to just use the app on my Samsung. No biggie but what a bunch of idiots at Tivo. 
Sad to see it slowly die...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

But you have to ask Disney. They provide the apps. TiVo doesn’t.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

jimbayne said:


> So Tivo's response is go ask Disney to make it... please?
> What a joke... I really like Tivo but I guess for this I have to just use the app on my Samsung. No biggie but what a bunch of idiots at Tivo.
> Sad to see it slowly die...


Samsung didn't create the Disney app for their TVs. Disney did. Likewise, Disney is who would need to create one for TiVos.


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

Jeeters said:


> Samsung didn't create the Disney app for their TVs. Disney did. Likewise, Disney is who would need to create one for TiVos.


I would hope that Tivo actually talks to the streaming companies and tries to persuade them into making an app.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

spiderpumpkin said:


> I would hope that Tivo actually talks to the streaming companies and tries to persuade them into making an app.


I'm sure they do. But it is still a business decision by the app provider. TiVo probably also tries to persuade them to allow searching into their data as part of the discussion.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> But you have to ask Disney. They provide the apps. TiVo doesn't.


Most of the dead end apps on the current Tivo platform were not made by the streaming vendor but by Tivo themselves or were paid for by Tivo. The streaming vendors have no financial incentive to support such a small group of users, most of which have other streaming devices they already support.

Nope, its Tivo that started it streaming ambitions and abandoned them. Its over and the existing apps will fail one by one as the service they connect to updates and makes them obsolete. Tivo is not developing new streaming apps. Was a great idea that Tivo never fulfilled.


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## TostitoBandito (Sep 18, 2006)

As others have stated, stop apologizing for Tivo when it comes to app support. It is Tivo's responsibility to provide app support for its customers. Sure it absolutely requires coordination with other companies, but stop pretending like all Tivo should have to do is sit back and wait for Disney or whoever to send them an app. 

If Tivo were serious about being a streaming platform we'd have current app support for things like CBS All Access, Disney+, Showtime, and others who have never been seen on a Tivo device. Not to mention more frequent updates of things like Hulu which have really old interfaces or Amazon/Netflix which took forever to get HDR support. If Tivo would do what it takes to forge agreements with various providers they could have this. The frustrating thing to me is that Tivo continues to market their devices as these one-stop streaming nexus things, when that's a load of garbage since the limited app support they might have when new will only be sparsely updated if at all compared to something like a $30 streaming dongle from Amazon or Roku or whatever. That's the main reason people get frustrated with Tivo app support, because they can often get a much better experience on a device which costs less than a Tivo remote control.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

spiderpumpkin said:


> I would hope that Tivo actually talks to the streaming companies and tries to persuade them into making an app.


I would hope that a pirate would bring me a chest of buried treasure so I can retire this afternoon. Good luck to both of us.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. You buy the Tivo for what it can provide you, not as a reward for their hard efforts. It doesn't matter enough if the bad apps and weak selection if because of the app providers, Tivo, or both. The effect is identical for the end consumer.



TostitoBandito said:


> As others have stated, stop apologizing for Tivo when it comes to app support. It is Tivo's responsibility to provide app support for its customers. Sure it absolutely requires coordination with other companies, but stop pretending like all Tivo should have to do is sit back and wait for Disney or whoever to send them an app.
> 
> If Tivo were serious about being a streaming platform we'd have current app support for things like CBS All Access, Disney+, Showtime, and others who have never been seen on a Tivo device. Not to mention more frequent updates of things like Hulu which have really old interfaces or Amazon/Netflix which took forever to get HDR support. If Tivo would do what it takes to forge agreements with various providers they could have this. The frustrating thing to me is that Tivo continues to market their devices as these one-stop streaming nexus things, when that's a load of garbage since the limited app support they might have when new will only be sparsely updated if at all compared to something like a $30 streaming dongle from Amazon or Roku or whatever. That's the main reason people get frustrated with Tivo app support, because they can often get a much better experience on a device which costs less than a Tivo remote control.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

Honestly, the best path to an integrated DVR/app experience would be through the Apple TV/Roku Tivo applications that they will also not release.


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## jimbayne (Feb 17, 2016)

Tivo sells the damn Bolt as a hub for all your streaming media... but if you want one you have to ask that company? Come on... that's absurd.... If that is their model then yeah they are SOL in a wee bit...


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

It's Tivo's responsibility to provide a platform that 3rd parties are interested in, like...maybe.....ANDROID. 

Tivo's app platform is dead.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Who wants to take a bet that TiVo will survive to the “end of days”. I’ll even give you odds to make it a fair wager.

with someone like me tivo is not going anywhere.


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

ufo4sale said:


> Who wants to take a bet that TiVo will survive to the "end of days". I'll even give you odds to make it a fair wager.
> 
> with someone like me tivo is not going anywhere.


Tivo is already dead. It's Rovi we're dealing with now.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Narkul said:


> Tivo is already dead. It's Rovi we're dealing with now.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> Most of the dead end apps on the current Tivo platform were not made by the streaming vendor but by Tivo themselves or were paid for by Tivo. The streaming vendors have no financial incentive to support such a small group of users, most of which have other streaming devices they already support.
> 
> Nope, its Tivo that started it streaming ambitions and abandoned them. Its over and the existing apps will fail one by one as the service they connect to updates and makes them obsolete. Tivo is not developing new streaming apps. Was a great idea that Tivo never fulfilled.


I haven't seen a single app on TiVo that wasn't on Roku and others first.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> I haven't seen a single app on TiVo that wasn't on Roku and others first.


Tivo is not a Roku and does not run Roku aps. Aps for Tivo have to be developed....FOR TIVO. Not compatible with anything else. The point was the only apps currently on Tivo are there because Tivo took the burden of getting them there. Once that development stopped and Tivo passed the burden to streaming providers, the app development and additions all but stopped. Tivo as a streaming platform is dying as one by one the apps fail and are removed.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> I haven't seen a single app on TiVo that wasn't on Roku and others first.


I have cox ondemand it's only cox hardware or tivo with cable cards not on roku or firetv


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## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

jcthorne said:


> Tivo is not a Roku and does not run Roku aps. Aps for Tivo have to be developed....FOR TIVO. Not compatible with anything else. The point was the only apps currently on Tivo are there because Tivo took the burden of getting them there. Once that development stopped and Tivo passed the burden to streaming providers, the app development and additions all but stopped. Tivo as a streaming platform is dying as one by one the apps fail and are removed.


I thought Tivo shared the same HTML5 platform as Samsung's smart televisions which Samsung has since abandoned.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Narkul said:


> I thought Tivo shared the same HTML5 platform as Samsung's smart televisions which Samsung has since abandoned.


This is true. They're built on the Samsung HTML5 spec from 2016 using the Opera browser as the base. So the apps aren't TiVo specific, but there is a whole convoluted process to get the app onto the TiVo and to release updates.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> Tivo is not a Roku and does not run Roku aps. Aps for Tivo have to be developed....FOR TIVO. Not compatible with anything else. The point was the only apps currently on Tivo are there because Tivo took the burden of getting them there. Once that development stopped and Tivo passed the burden to streaming providers, the app development and additions all but stopped. Tivo as a streaming platform is dying as one by one the apps fail and are removed.


No. The app developers develop for platforms they want to be on. Some are pretty portable so they can stick them anywhere. TiVo did NOT develop the apps.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> No. The app developers develop for platforms they want to be on. Some are pretty portable so they can stick them anywhere. TiVo did NOT develop the apps.


You still miss the whole point. There is no return on investment for streaming companies to sink money in tivo app development. None. For the tivo apps to get started, tivo PAID the streaming suppliers (amazon, netflix and hulu) to develop apps. Once that funding stopped, there was no further drive for development so it stopped. Tivo is a dead platform for streaming unless Tivo moves its application to a mainstream platform like android. The best tivo can hope for to stay relevant going forward to to publish apps for the major streaming platforms to allow tivo content on them. Tivo will never again bet the center of the home media world as apps are being removed not added. Its use as a stand alone streaming platform is dying and there is no bringing it back.


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## snoop (Oct 10, 2002)

Slumpert said:


> But there is "something" I can do about it, my next hardware purchase will be supported by Disney.
> 
> I dont understand where these "low" installed base numbers are coming from, from TiVo Wiki "As of January 31, 2016, TiVo reported 6.8 million subscribers.[33]"


Roku supported d+ with their universal search right away and playon already has support for d+. Just to point out that with some planning and apparently a little effort since playon isn't hundreds of people and worth tens of millions of dollars, it can be done.


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## jcliff (May 24, 2017)

ajwees41 said:


> I have cox ondemand it's only cox hardware or tivo with cable cards not on roku or firetv


Condolences to a fellow Cox customer. Not a great endorsement, though technically accurate.

If you include Contour whatever, that was on Android first. Does that count?


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

jcliff said:


> Condolences to a fellow Cox customer. Not a great endorsement, though technically accurate.
> 
> If you include Contour whatever, that was on Android first. Does that count?


I would say contour doesn't count


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## Sfeldman (Apr 3, 2006)

jakryk said:


> Will TiVo be getting the Disney+ App or are they locked into NetFlix/Hulu?


REMEMBER THAT TIVO IS LIQUIDATING ITS HARDWARE BUSINESS. 2-3 YEARS AGO THEY FIRED MANY OF THEIR PROGRAMMERS. TIVO IS NOT PUTTING MONIES INTO THEIR HARDWARE PRODUCT. I'VE BEEN A CUSTOMER FOR 20 YEARS, BUT THIS IS THE LAST OF THE HARDWARE I'D BUY FROM THEM. LOOK ELSEWHERE.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sfeldman said:


> REMEMBER THAT TIVO IS LIQUIDATING ITS HARDWARE BUSINESS. 2-3 YEARS AGO THEY FIRED MANY OF THEIR PROGRAMMERS. TIVO IS NOT PUTTING MONIES INTO THEIR HARDWARE PRODUCT. I'VE BEEN A CUSTOMER FOR 20 YEARS, BUT THIS IS THE LAST OF THE HARDWARE I'D BUY FROM THEM. LOOK ELSEWHERE.


They just released a new Android TV streaming device 2 days ago. They may be getting out of the DVR business, but they're still currently in the hardware business.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

TiVo isn't dead cause if they were then I wouldn't be typing this right now.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> They just released a new Android TV streaming device 2 days ago. They may be getting out of the DVR business, but they're still currently in the hardware business.


Tivo is on a death watch... Few will want to buy any new hardware from Tivo. And with so many other great seasoned streaming devices out there now, why buy one from TiVo. Next month TiVo may add ads to your device.

TiVo got into the game way too late.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

tommiet said:


> Tivo is on a death watch... Few will want to buy any new hardware from Tivo. And with so many other great seasoned streaming devices out there now, why buy one from TiVo. Next month TiVo may add ads to your device.
> 
> TiVo got into the game way too late.


Have you tried TiVo stream, it's by far light years ahead of the competition. I swear I don't know where we find these people.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Sfeldman said:


> REMEMBER THAT TIVO IS LIQUIDATING ITS HARDWARE BUSINESS. 2-3 YEARS AGO THEY FIRED MANY OF THEIR PROGRAMMERS. TIVO IS NOT PUTTING MONIES INTO THEIR HARDWARE PRODUCT. I'VE BEEN A CUSTOMER FOR 20 YEARS, BUT THIS IS THE LAST OF THE HARDWARE I'D BUY FROM THEM. LOOK ELSEWHERE.


You are confusing them contracting out the hardware with getting out of the hardware business. They've never wanted to make the hardware from the beginning (and didn't originally as Sony and Philips "made" the original TiVo hardware). They only started making TiVo-branded hardware when Sony and Philips stopped.

Scott


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Sfeldman said:


> REMEMBER THAT TIVO IS LIQUIDATING ITS HARDWARE BUSINESS. 2-3 YEARS AGO THEY FIRED MANY OF THEIR PROGRAMMERS. TIVO IS NOT PUTTING MONIES INTO THEIR HARDWARE PRODUCT. I'VE BEEN A CUSTOMER FOR 20 YEARS, BUT THIS IS THE LAST OF THE HARDWARE I'D BUY FROM THEM. LOOK ELSEWHERE.


TIVO IS NOT LIQUIDATING ITS HARDWARE BUSINESS, unless, maybe, you got a notice that I never received, lol. (But who knows what may happen next.)


tommiet said:


> Tivo is on a death watch... Few will want to buy any new hardware from Tivo. And with so many other great seasoned streaming devices out there now, why buy one from TiVo. Next month TiVo may add ads to your device.
> 
> TiVo got into the game way too late.


Lol--the death watch purveyors probably have been around for 20 years now. Yes, things are more precarious and unknown than before, especially with sales of TiVo/acquisitions/mergers, changing technologies, and changing markets. And people should consider those factors. But who knows what will happen next.

Agreed that TiVo has a handicap in entering the streamer market as late as it has, and that there is competition out there with nice devices--I have one of them. But if TiVo can build and maintain a better product, who knows what might happen. (And it may wish to consider allowing its streamer to work with its DVRs in that regard, enlarging its audience that way (although, admittedly, there are other considerations as well).)

And ads on the device? As far as I can tell, my Roku device already has 'em, at least static ads on its homepage--just sayin'.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

As I have stated, do all of you think the streamer market is officially closed? We will see no improvements, no new devices . Either you want tivo to fail so bad you are hoping an industry will die. It you are just stupid. If a new Roku came out would that be " late to the party"? If Samsung put out a streaming device is it too doomed to fail? What is wrong with some people.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

tommiet said:


> Tivo is on a death watch... Few will want to buy any new hardware from Tivo. And with so many other great seasoned streaming devices out there now, why buy one from TiVo. Next month TiVo may add ads to your device.
> 
> TiVo got into the game way too late.


I think Tivo will sell quite a few of these streamers (relatively) but if they are no better than the rest they will get thrown in a drawer somewhere in the home for lost gadgets.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Someone, who purchased this device, should call customer support and ask if this device can be reverted to TE3.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

shwru980r said:


> Someone, who purchased this device, should call customer support and ask if this device can be reverted to TE3.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

ufo4sale said:


> Have you tried TiVo stream, it's by far light years ahead of the competition. I swear I don't know where we find these people.


You must be drinking the TiVo Kool-Aid..... The TiVo streaming apps on my BOLT SUX at best. You think that TiVo's first attempt at a stand along streaming device is better than others that have been doing it for years?

Educate me... What options does a TiVo steaming device have that others do not? What makes it better than others?

Just like folks who love Apple (and stand in line for any new product,) TiVo fans may buy this device. That stimulus money need to go someplace....


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> Someone, who purchased this device, should call customer support and ask if this device can be reverted to TE3.


Can I get pre-show ads too? Cost extra?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tommiet said:


> Tivo is on a death watch... Few will want to buy any new hardware from Tivo. And with so many other great seasoned streaming devices out there now, why buy one from TiVo. Next month TiVo may add ads to your device.
> 
> TiVo got into the game way too late.


I got one today. It's not perfect, but it's got potential. We'll see where they go with it.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> I got one today. It's not perfect, but it's got potential. We'll see where they go with it.


Nice... Let us know what you think.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

From what I've read, Tivo did not integrate the Local channels portion of Sling Tv into their interface for this device. CEO Dave Shull stated that this device is targeting cord cutters. I think most cord cutters want the local channels plus some streaming alternatives. Many customers will still need an OTA DVR and the content will not be included in the Tivo interface of this device. If a customer uses the air tv device along with sling tv to get the local channels, they would have to toggle between the sling tv app and the tivo app to find all of their shows.


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## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> From what I've read, Tivo did not integrate the Local channels portion of Sling Tv into their interface for this device. CEO Dave Shull stated that this device is targeting cord cutters. I think most cord cutters want the local channels plus some streaming alternatives. Many customers will still need an OTA DVR and the content will not be included in the interface of this device.


Likely because TiVo sells an OTA DVR and it competes directly with that product is my guess, since it isn't a technical reason...

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

jaredmwright said:


> Likely because TiVo sells an OTA DVR and it competes directly with that product is my guess, since it isn't a technical reason...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


Dave Shull stated:

It's vitally important that TiVo "get over" its history as a DVR company, he said, noting, "We're only talking about streaming now."

I'm not sure why Dave Shull partnered with Sling when the OTA portion of their service is a physical DVR.

This new device is incomplete for the typical cord cutter and has to be augmented with an additional service that is not integrated into the Tivo interface.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> Dave Shull stated:
> 
> It's vitally important that TiVo "get over" its history as a DVR company, he said, noting, "We're only talking about streaming now."
> 
> ...


Maybe that's the only partner they could get so far. Also obviously they could plug this OTA-gap at a later date.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

1) Dave Shull comes from Dish/Sling
2) This device is very similar to an existing Sling product.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

SullyND said:


> 1) Dave Shull comes from Dish/Sling
> 2) This device is very similar to an existing Sling product.


Shull is also not the CEO any more after the latest merger with Xperia is completed.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

trip1eX said:


> Shull is also not the CEO any more after the latest merger with Xperia is completed.


The future CEO had no impact on how this device came to be.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

SullyND said:


> The future CEO had no impact on how this device came to be.


probably not. But given Shull came on board last year and will be probably be out the door this year, he doesn't seem very married to whatever success Tivo will or will not have. Who knows if he even got this ball rolling or not.

I mean Tivo already had an Android TV device for MSOs. I feel like that predated him. I could be wrong.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I am watching dolby promo videos for Dolby atmos and I zmgetting pcm from my receiver


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

trip1eX said:


> Maybe that's the only partner they could get so far. Also obviously they could plug this OTA-gap at a later date.


In my opinion the lack of OTA integration into the Tivo interface for this device is a significant gap. The top ten shows in the Neilson ratings are all on network tv that broadcast on the OTA channels.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

My guess is Dish is paying TiVo to add the Sling player to their streaming device. No different than Netflix doing the same. Sling started out big.. and like many others, raised prices soon after deployment and customers started dropped them too.

Its interesting that TiVo's SLING will NOT be offering local channels as all the others probably do. As SLING seems to be their main offering... Just another coffin nail for their streaming device.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

mschnebly said:


> I think Tivo will sell quite a few of these streamers (relatively) but if they are no better than the rest they will get thrown in a drawer somewhere in the home for lost gadgets.


Considering it's $20 cheaper than a Chromecast Ultra and can do more, what's the downside to it? Granted, I'm a bit salty, peeved, annoyed and so on that they can't make a Tivo Stream Mini 4k (for a lack of a better device name), but if I had to get a 4k streaming device right now, why wouldn't I drop $50 for the Stream 4k? I'm a big Chromecast fan in general, and if I have company or a date that wants control of the remote, they can have it.

I'm picking one up strictly to retire my og Chromecast. The only thing I'd love to see added is a microSD slot or USB. But if you're in the market for a new streaming device, this wouldn't be topping your list why?

And seeing as it uses USB-C, I'm guessing we might be able to add a hub and external drive to it as well. That would be slick. I'd also wonder if we could use a hub with ethernet and make the connection wired.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

jaredmwright said:


> Likely because TiVo sells an OTA DVR and it competes directly with that product is my guess, since it isn't a technical reason...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


Seems like a great reason to make a Mini with Stream 4k capabilities. Which is probably the device everyone here wants. They'd probably toss their Tivo DVR in the basement and throw the Mini Stream 4k on all their displays and call it a day. I know I would. Provided they came with true "learning" remotes. I truly despise the F'd up array of remotes they have and their various and incompatible technologies for connecting.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dbpaddler said:


> Seems like a great reason to make a Mini with Stream 4k capabilities. Which is probably the device everyone here wants. They'd probably toss their Tivo DVR in the basement and throw the Mini Stream 4k on all their displays and call it a day. I know I would. Provided they came with true "learning" remotes. I truly despise the F'd up array of remotes they have and their various and incompatible technologies for connecting.


Actually that's exactly what I want. I want a Mini that runs Android TV and has full access to the Play store. I thought we'd get essentially a version of that, just without the TiVo playback part, with the Stream 4K, but that's not how it turned out.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Actually that's exactly what I want. I want a Mini that runs Android TV and has full access to the Play store. I thought we'd get essentially a version of that, just without the TiVo playback part, with the Stream 4K, but that's not how it turned out.


Well, if they follow through on the streaming app... 

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dbpaddler said:


> Well, if they follow through on the streaming app...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


I don't have high hopes for that. I tried using the old Fire TV app for a while and it was pretty terrible. Also used the mobile app on my iPad as as bedtime TV for years. It was better, but still not great. The whole transcoding process it uses for these devices just isn't that reliable.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I don't have high hopes for that. I tried using the old Fire TV app for a while and it was pretty terrible. Also used the mobile app on my iPad as as bedtime TV for years. It was better, but still not great. The whole transcoding process it uses for these devices just isn't that reliable.


Well my confidence isn't high. My bigger issue is ever since the channels all updated, and I've done all sorts of rescan and resets, my channel quality is crap on a few channels. And I think it's the tivo tuners and my TV seems to do the same channels just fine.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dbpaddler said:


> Well my confidence isn't high. My bigger issue is ever since the channels all updated, and I've done all sorts of rescan and resets, my channel quality is crap on a few channels. And I think it's the tivo tuners and my TV seems to do the same channels just fine.


Depends on what sort of "quality" issues you're having. Are you talking about like pixelation and breakups? If so then that could be the TiVo tuners. If you're talking about like the quality of the picture, like softness, contrast, etc... then it's unlikely the TiVo tuners are causing that. TiVo just records the digital stream as-is. Now there is some post processing during output depending on the settings, and your TV could be set differently for HDMI then it is for tuner, but those should all be fixable.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

dbpaddler said:


> Considering it's $20 cheaper than a Chromecast Ultra and can do more, what's the downside to it? Granted, I'm a bit salty, peeved, annoyed and so on that they can't make a Tivo Stream Mini 4k (for a lack of a better device name), but if I had to get a 4k streaming device right now, why wouldn't I drop $50 for the Stream 4k? I'm a big Chromecast fan in general, and if I have company or a date that wants control of the remote, they can have it.
> 
> I'm picking one up strictly to retire my og Chromecast. The only thing I'd love to see added is a microSD slot or USB. But if you're in the market for a new streaming device, this wouldn't be topping your list why?
> 
> And seeing as it uses USB-C, I'm guessing we might be able to add a hub and external drive to it as well. That would be slick. I'd also wonder if we could use a hub with ethernet and make the connection wired.


There is a video around here somewhere that shows how to use the USB-C with a hub to watch external movies off a drive. It looks like it works very well.
I have to say that I'm somewhat surprised at how well this works... but I never use the Tivo app on it, I seem to just stay on the Android part. The one big irritating thing is my TVs wont pair to use power and volume even using the hack.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

dbpaddler said:


> I'm picking one up strictly to retire my og Chromecast. The only thing I'd love to see added is a microSD slot or USB. But if you're in the market for a new streaming device, this wouldn't be topping your list why?


I could buy an Amazon Fire TV 4k Stick for less than $50.00 everyday. Has been as low as $39.99. Why buy a first generation TiVo streaming device when a seasoned one is available?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tommiet said:


> I could buy an Amazon Fire TV 4k Stick for less than $50.00 everyday. Has been as low as $39.99. Why buy a first generation TiVo streaming device when a seasoned one is available?


The remote is pretty nice. It's no perfect, but you can change some of the buttons using an app called button mapper and it makes it nearly perfect. I find it much more comfortable to use then either the Fire TV or Apple TV remotes.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ufo4sale said:


> Have you tried TiVo stream, *it's by far light years ahead of the competition*. I swear I don't know where we find these people.


You've got to be kidding. The TS4K is a piece of crap. Released way too early with multiple problems including a UI that's a joke.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> You've got to be kidding. The TS4K is a piece of crap. Released way too early with multiple problems including a UI that's a joke.


The TiVo app and it's integration with Sling suck, but if you just use it like an Android TV device and ignore the TiVo part it works pretty good and the remote is nicer than the other streaming devices. (especially if you're a long time TiVo user and just know the TiVo layout by feel)


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> The remote is pretty nice. It's no perfect, but you can change some of the buttons using an app called button mapper and it makes it nearly perfect. I find it much more comfortable to use then either the Fire TV or Apple TV remotes.


If your a big Apple or TiVo fan, people wait in line and buy it no matter what. I'm not sold on a single streaming device and choice based on the specifications, options and company history.

I have a Fire TV cube, RoKu and my Samsung TV's with most apps already built in. I use my TV's apps 90% of the time. No need to change devices to get what I want. Most TV's today already have the ability to stream apps. No need to buy other toys, unless you really want too.

If it makes you happy, then the TiVo product is the best product for you... But specs and TiVo history do not back it up. Will be a hard sell when the sale price goes away. For streaming, a remote is not even on my list as my TV's remote handles my other steaming devices itself. The RoKu and Cube remotes are collecting dust in a draw.

Now if only my BOLT's remote would allow me to program other remotes into it. I could get to one remote and not two.

Be safe.....


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

tommiet said:


> You must be drinking the TiVo Kool-Aid..... The TiVo streaming apps on my BOLT SUX at best. You think that TiVo's first attempt at a stand along streaming device is better than others that have been doing it for years?
> 
> Educate me... What options does a TiVo steaming device have that others do not? What makes it better than others?
> 
> Just like folks who love Apple (and stand in line for any new product,) TiVo fans may buy this device. That stimulus money need to go someplace....


TiVo says that we can keep one list of all streamed shows on the stick, as we try to do on our TiVo DVRs, but it doesn't work
There are several things I've searched for on the TiVo stick that are on Prime and also on Google Play. I searched for them because I wanted to add them to My Shows list. (They are already on my Prime watchlist.)
Well ... the TiVo search only shows them on Google Play; it ignores that they are on Prime. Items only on Google Play don't allow you to add them to the My Shows list, so this whole system is useless to me.
From my experience with the DVRs and using wishlists, I don't expect TiVo to ever fix any of this. When it comes to fixing things they are the worst.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Furmaniac said:


> TiVo says that we can keep one list of all streamed shows on the stick, as we try to do on our TiVo DVRs, but it doesn't work
> There are several things I've searched for on the TiVo stick that are on Prime and also on Google Play. I searched for them because I wanted to add them to My Shows list. (They are already on my Prime watchlist.)
> Well ... the TiVo search only shows them on Google Play; it ignores that they are on Prime. Items only on Google Play don't allow you to add them to the My Shows list, so this whole system is useless to me.
> From my experience with the DVRs and using wishlists, I don't expect TiVo to ever fix any of this. When it comes to fixing things they are the worst.


Call it quits and return the junk...


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Depends on what sort of "quality" issues you're having. Are you talking about like pixelation and breakups? If so then that could be the TiVo tuners. If you're talking about like the quality of the picture, like softness, contrast, etc... then it's unlikely the TiVo tuners are causing that. TiVo just records the digital stream as-is. Now there is some post processing during output depending on the settings, and your TV could be set differently for HDMI then it is for tuner, but those should all be fixable.


It's audio and video freezes and pauses along with pixelization at times. Considering my TV doesn't do this, I blame the tuners. No warranty any more, and I refuse to fight the fight and even pay a discount for a new box. I might try a new antenna. Just annoyed as everything was perfect before the channels updated.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Furmaniac said:


> TiVo says that we can keep one list of all streamed shows on the stick, as we try to do on our TiVo DVRs, but it doesn't work
> There are several things I've searched for on the TiVo stick that are on Prime and also on Google Play. I searched for them because I wanted to add them to My Shows list. (They are already on my Prime watchlist.)
> Well ... the TiVo search only shows them on Google Play; it ignores that they are on Prime. Items only on Google Play don't allow you to add them to the My Shows list, so this whole system is useless to me.
> From my experience with the DVRs and using wishlists, I don't expect TiVo to ever fix any of this. When it comes to fixing things they are the worst.


So if you have no faith they'll fix it, then why continue to buy any of their products. Makes no sense to continue to buy products if you already have a belief they're not going to fix it. Even worse if you're going to buy it and then complain. You saved $20. It's a bargain for what it is. You're a beta tester at this point. Either deal with it and hope it gets fixed or just return it and stop buying their products. Brand spanking new product. Doesn't make a lot of sense for it to be perfect out of the box. Give it a few firmware updates, then make a determination. As bad as the people on the slickdeals thread.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dbpaddler said:


> It's audio and video freezes and pauses along with pixelization at times. Considering my TV doesn't do this, I blame the tuners. No warranty any more, and I refuse to fight the fight and even pay a discount for a new box. I might try a new antenna. Just annoyed as everything was perfect before the channels updated.


That could be the HDD dying


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> That could be the HDD dying


For live TV? And it happening only after the channel update/rescan? That would be some coincidence.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

dbpaddler said:


> For live TV? And it happening only after the channel update/rescan? That would be some coincidence.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Live Tv still buffers to the hard drive


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

compnurd said:


> Live Tv still buffers to the hard drive


If that's the case, wouldn't it affect all channels?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

dbpaddler said:


> If that's the case, wouldn't it affect all channels?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Yes. If it's the HDD it'll effect all channels. I thought you said it was. If not then it's likely tuners or a weak signal.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Yes. If it's the HDD it'll effect all channels. I thought you said it was. If not then it's likely tuners or a weak signal.


That's what I was thinking. Everything was perfect until the channel rescan last year. After that, a few channels were wonky. Through the TV itself, they're all fine. That led me to thinking it's the tuners. Maybe I'll try boosting the antenna first. Already had to fight for a cheap refurb for someone else on my account. So I doubt they'd do much for me this go around.

Funny, with just doing OTA, it might be simpler to go back to a roamio OTA.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Lots of reports that TiVo tuners, in all models, are weaker than those in most TVs. So it could very well just be a weak signal that your TV is better at picking up. Try boosting it, that might help.


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo uses the same HTML5 app platform that older Sunmsung TVs use.


Do you have an authoritive source saying that? I know they use TiVo Home Media Engine SDK (HME). And see Add an Application?; wmcbrine is well known as being familiar with Tivo programming. He says (as of a year ago) there is no information about anything newer than HME.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sam Ray said:


> Do you have an authoritive source saying that? I know they use TiVo Home Media Engine SDK (HME). And see Add an Application?; wmcbrine is well known as being familiar with Tivo programming. He says (as of a year ago) there is no information about anything newer than HME.


HME is old. Something they developed for the S2 units which didn't have enough processing power to actually run apps natively. So instead they were more like Remote Desktop where the app itself ran on another machine and just transmitted the UI to the TiVo.

The new HTML format apps came when they transitioned the UI to Haxe when the Roamio was released. Between HME and HTML they actually used Flash based apps on the Premiere units, which have a chipset with native Flash support. Flash got killed, and the Roamio chipset didn't have Flash support, so they transitioned to HTML apps instead.

The newer software was/is based on the Opera browser and even offers an Opera app store, which unfortunately never really took off so it's mainly just a bunch of crap. The same platform/app store was briefly offered on a few Smart TVs and BD players back in the 2012 era. But for the most part new TVs have transitioned to their own app stores or to Android TV.

I don't have a definitive link I can point you to. It's just information I've collected from years of being on this forum.


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> TiVo does not make the apps, the streaming services do.





TonyD79 said:


> But you have to ask Disney. They provide the apps. TiVo doesn't.


In addition to the application development, Tivo applications execute outside the Tivo box. In other words, support of Disney+ (in non-streaming boxes) requires that Disney provide hardware for doing that.


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> I don't have a definitive link I can point you to. It's just information I've collected from years of being on this forum.


It could easily be just rumors and I posted authoritive sources indicating it is.


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## CurtJester (Apr 1, 2021)

Sam Ray said:


> It could easily be just rumors and I posted authoritive sources indicating it is.


Your source is eleven years old, not one year old; I know time flies, but May 7, 20*1*0, when wmcbrine posted that, was 11 years ago.


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## CurtJester (Apr 1, 2021)

Fortunately, you need not take my word for it: R.I.P. HME


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sam Ray said:


> It could easily be just rumors and I posted authoritive sources indicating it is.


It's not


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

CurtJester said:


> Your source is eleven years old, not one year old; I know time flies, but May 7, 20*1*0, when wmcbrine posted that, was 11 years ago.


Sorry, yes you are correct.



CurtJester said:


> Fortunately, you need not take my word for it: R.I.P. HME


He also says there is nothing official about that from Tivo.

And I still see nothing authoritive about a replacement for HME; especially not the HTML, Opera and Samsung explanation.

Okay, I looked at the Tivo Copyrights file in the Tivo. It does say something about Opera. Can you explain how Opera is used for third-party applications? Any relevant documentation or announcement or whatever? The most important relevant documentation is anything indicating that third-party Tivo *applications execute within* the Tivo box. Opera is not an operating system; even Apache does not have such things as a file system and the necessary video processing. So what do third-party Tivo applications use for those features? There must be developer documentation for third-party applications for Tivo. Where is that for the Samsung HTML and Opera API you describe?

That copyright information is interesting. It mentions FreeBSD, not Linux; perhaps Tivo switched from Linux to FreeBSD. It also mentions Apache, Android and Chromium. It even has copyright information for Python Lex-YACC. I really doubt that there is a source-code generator of syntactical and lexical parsers in every Tivo box; the copyright information is probably there due to the existence of relevant *generated* code.


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## CurtJester (Apr 1, 2021)

Sam Ray said:


> And I still see nothing authoritive about a replacement for HME; especially not the HTML, Opera and Samsung explanation.


Opera gets their HTML5 app platform on TiVo

Opera has signed up Samsung and is already on some TiVo devices, from 2014

Vewd (formerly Opera TV, as explicitly mentioned htere) app store info, from TiVo themselves

Stumbled upon a reference to the underlying website Plex uses on the TiVo this in the kmttg source. This looks like it is indeed the app, from personal experience, and OperaTV is invoked within the page's Javascript source: https://plex.tv/web/tv/tivo
The relevant kmttg source bit which indicates there are flash and webapps by the looks of it (search on 'Netflix (html)'): kmttg / Code / [r4378] /trunk/src/com/tivo/kmttg/gui/remote/remotecontrol.java

Though, IMO, the real clue is the Tivo HME e-list, linked from the HME SDK homepage you posted; no posts since 2012: TiVo HME SDK / List tivohme-developer Archives


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Sam Ray said:


> He also says there is nothing official about that from Tivo.
> 
> And I still see nothing authoritive about a replacement for HME; especially not the HTML, Opera and Samsung explanation.


Sorry, but you've managed to spam every thread with Disney+ in the sub-forum, and you won't accept the facts that 
A: The app isn't on any Tivo
B: People have clearly stated that it's not here and not coming

Just because you don't like the answer and history is against you doesn't mean everyone else is wrong about what they've posted.
Denial and desire willing it to happen won't result in it happening.


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

CurtJester said:


> Opera gets their HTML5 app platform on TiVo


That says the application is in Tivo boxes from six cable operators, implying not in most Tivo boxes. It says nothing about what it is in inside Tivo boxes.



CurtJester said:


> Opera has signed up Samsung and is already on some TiVo devices, from 2014


Some Tivo boxes.



CurtJester said:


> Vewd (formerly Opera TV, as explicitly mentioned htere) app store info, from TiVo themselves


That is the important one. That is the first authoritive source that says something relevant. It says _your DVR accesses the apps from the Vewd server_. It is not clear what _access_ means here; it is not clear where the application executes.



CurtJester said:


> Stumbled upon a reference to the underlying website Plex uses on the TiVo this in the kmttg source. This looks like it is indeed the app, from personal experience, and OperaTV is invoked within the page's Javascript source: Plex


That is the website and the Javascript is executing in the browser, I do not understand how that is relevant to what is executing in a Tivo system.



CurtJester said:


> The relevant kmttg source bit which indicates there are flash and webapps by the looks of it (search on 'Netflix (html)'): kmttg / Code / [r4378] /trunk/src/com/tivo/kmttg/gui/remote/remotecontrol.java


As best as I can tell, OperaTV is a client there, as well as YouTube, Vudu and streambaby.



CurtJester said:


> Though, IMO, the real clue is the Tivo HME e-list, linked from the HME SDK homepage you posted; no posts since 2012: TiVo HME SDK / List tivohme-developer Archives


An absence of updates does not necessarily mean that it is no longer used. Assuming it is still used, an absence of updates indicates it is stable.


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

dianebrat said:


> Sorry, but you've managed to spam every thread with Disney+ in the sub-forum, and you won't accept the facts that
> A: The app isn't on any Tivo
> B: People have clearly stated that it's not here and not coming
> 
> ...


Thank you for the opportunity to explain my motivation. Note that I really hope I am not using intimidation or personal attacks. It is true that I posted the same reply multiple times; these forums unfortunately allow the same question to be asked multiple times and therefore the same comment (that I replied to) were posted multiple times.

If it is shown that I am mistaken then I have accomplished my purpose of determining the truth. I just want to get something authoritive and clear that is relevant to the questions. I usually provide authoritve sources for what I post but many people do not. I am just asking for something clear and authoritve such as what I would do. I am sorry, but I do not define spam as being everything I do not like.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Sam Ray said:


> Thank you for the opportunity to explain my motivation. Note that I really hope I am not using intimidation or personal attacks. It is true that I posted the same reply multiple times; these forums unfortunately allow the same question to be asked multiple times and therefore the same comment (that I replied to) were posted multiple times.
> 
> If it is shown that I am mistaken then I have accomplished my purpose of determining the truth. I just want to get something authoritive and clear that is relevant to the questions. I usually provide authoritve sources for what I post but many people do not. I am just asking for something clear and authoritve such as what I would do. I am sorry, but I do not define spam as being everything I do not like.


You're asking the same question, and arguing the same argument that you did in 2019 and you're even getting the same answers, HME is dead, Disney+ isn't coming to Tivo DVRs.

Disney+
Instead of just continuing the conversation in 1 recent thread you replied the same in five different threads, sure the forum software won't stop you, but experience should suggest that may not be the best approach. I don't consider it spam because "I don't like it" I consider it spam because there wasn't a reason to blast the same reply in five threads.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Considering Tivo's future in cable is with Android, why would anyone cling to the idea of new apps coming out for the current DVR OS?

Get a streaming stick and call it a day. 

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Sam Ray said:


> Thank you for the opportunity to explain my motivation.


You fell well short of that, as it failed to explain why you care anything at all about the ancient, deprecated HME functionality.


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

dianebrat said:


> Instead of just continuing the conversation in 1 recent thread you replied the same in five different threads


You are ignoring the fact that Dan203 posted the same information in all of them.



dbpaddler said:


> Considering Tivo's future in cable is with Android


Did Tivo say they will use Android in future cable-TV Tivo devices? And that is not relevant to all the Tivo devices that people already own.



krkaufman said:


> You fell well short of that, as it failed to explain why you care anything at all about the ancient, deprecated HME functionality.


Has Tivo officially deprecated HME functionality, including Tivo devices that people already own?

There has been much speculation in these discussions about why Tivo has not developed an application for Disney+ and I am trying to get an accurate explanation of whether it is reasonable to blame Tivo.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Sam Ray said:


> You are ignoring the fact that Dan203 posted the same information in all of them.
> 
> There has been much speculation in these discussions about* why Tivo has not developed an application for Disney+* and I am trying to get an accurate explanation of whether it is reasonable to blame Tivo.


I'm not ignoring that Dan203 answered you twice, I'm pointing out he gave you the same answer both times.
The highlighted line has you making a very incorrect assumption, Tivo does not develop any of the apps, the apps are developed by the provider and submitted to Tivo, the reason there is no Disney+ app is that the developer of the Disney+ app has not built one for Tivo, so in regards to "missing apps" the answer is that Tivo is not the party that is to blame.

But it goes back to you wanting an "authoritative answer" in a forum that is not owned nor operated by Tivo and has no Tivo representatives in it, there are people here that have been in the game for a long time and when they say "it's not going to happen" it's worth respecting them as opposed to saying you want an authoritative answer from the source of record and dismissing their answer as "not authoritative"


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

dianebrat said:


> The highlighted line has you making a very incorrect assumption, Tivo does not develop any of the apps, the apps are developed by the provider and submitted to Tivo, the reason there is no Disney+ app is that the developer of the Disney+ app has not built one for Tivo, so in regards to "missing apps" the answer is that Tivo is not the party that is to blame.


I agree that third-party applications are not developed by Tivo. I apologize for saying anything indicating otherwise. My point goes beyond that; it is my understanding that *all* third-party applications do not execute within the Tivo device. That issue is critical because if it is true then support of Disney+ in cable-TV Tivo devices require hardware outside of (our) Tivo devices. If that is true then people have not been saying that. I have not developed a Tivo application but I did research how it is done. I have installed samples of Tivo applications. I know that in the past Tivo applications executed outside the Tivo devices and no one has provided anything authoritive saying otherwise (that *any* third-party application executes within the Tivo device).



dianebrat said:


> But it goes back to you wanting an "authoritative answer" in a forum that is not owned nor operated by Tivo and has no Tivo representatives in it, there are people here that have been in the game for a long time and when they say "it's not going to happen" it's worth respecting them as opposed to saying you want an authoritative answer from the source of record and dismissing their answer as "not authoritative"


You misunderstand what I mean by authoritive (and I spell it that way because I want to). I am using the word in the manner that Wikipedia does. In other words Vewd: App Information is relevant and authoritive, it just is too vague.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sam Ray said:


> You are ignoring the fact that Dan203 posted the same information in all of them.


Responding to different people, at different times. I didn't copy and paste my response to 3 different threads simultaneously.



Sam Ray said:


> Has Tivo officially deprecated HME functionality, including Tivo devices that people already own?


Yes, many years ago. They don't run at all on the new TE4 UI which is like 3 years old now. The only way you can run them at all is on a TiVo running the old UI. You can't even downgrade an Edge or a Bolt Vox OTA to the old UI, which are the two most recent boxes from TiVo. So if that's not proof enough to you that HME is dead, I'm not sure what is.



Sam Ray said:


> There has been much speculation in these discussions about why Tivo has not developed an application for Disney+ and I am trying to get an accurate explanation of whether it is reasonable to blame Tivo.


At the time TiVo released the current apps platform it was relatively cutting edge. But TiVo didn't keep up. The app industry is constantly evolving and TiVo hasn't updated their platform in almost 10 years. The proof is in the fact that they haven't added an app from a major streaming service in several years. The Hulu app is still using a 3 year old UI. HBO never updated their HBOGo app to HBOMax. We never got CBS/Paramount+, we never got Peacock, we never got Apple TV+, and we never got Disney+. And apps like MLB, WWE and Spotify have all actually dropped their apps from the platform. On top of that TiVo now sells an Android TV based streamer to the public, and an Android TV based DVR to MSO, which specifically advertise compatibility with all of those apps in direct competition with its own DVR.

And that's not to mention the fact that TiVo itself, as a DVR platform, is dying. DVRs in general are becoming less popular because of streaming. Then there's the recent FCC decision to MSOs to stop supporting CableCARDs even though there is no established successor. This is the end of the road for the TiVo DVR. Why would any company pour resources into developing, testing and maintaining an app to run on a platform that is so obviously dying? They wouldn't.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sam Ray said:


> You misunderstand what I mean by authoritive (and I spell it that way because I want to). I am using the word in the manner that Wikipedia does. In other words Vewd: App Information is relevant and authoritive, it just is too vague.


I've been a member and moderator of this forum for 21 years. I still spend more time reading these forums on a daily basis than I care to admit. I've developed, and worked on, several of the most popular community projects. (including HME apps) I've even done actual paid development work for TiVo itself. How much more authoritative do you expect on a community forum?

You seem to dislike my answer and are looking for some "proof" that doesn't exist. TiVo is never going to come out and say "we're never releasing Disney+". All we can do is make educated guesses based on past experience and our knowledge of the platform. And my experience in that area tells me definitely, it's never going to happen.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Sam Ray said:


> Did Tivo say they will use Android in future cable-TV Tivo devices? And that is not relevant to all the Tivo devices that people already own.
> 
> There has been much speculation in these discussions about why Tivo has not developed an application for Disney+ and I am trying to get an accurate explanation of whether it is reasonable to blame Tivo.


They have been using android for cable for a bit now. Since you've been under a rock apparently...
TiVo Paves Path to Android TV Operator Tier | Light Reading

And it is relavent because you, for some God awful reason, still have some oddly misplaced belief that Tivo gives a rat's ass about their dvr ecosystem. You seem to be clinging to it like they're going to come around any day now. You are the ultimate bagholder (for a stock reference) and take an absence of confirmation as your only reason to believe otherwise.

Like that girl you're dating. Haven't gone out in weeks. She hasn't called once or returned your texts or calls. But you're still dating because she hasn't actually said she's breaking up with you.

They've moved on. The Edge is it. They even spun off Edge for Antenna to channelmaster. Nothing new and revolutionary has hit for ages. No hbo max. No Disney+. No iptv app support. No new boxes coming down the line. They brought the Mini in line and that's about it.

Android TV is their future for boxes at an Operator Tier level. They compete with X1 and the few other OS's out there for cable boxes. They then introduced the TS4k as a consumer option and to help improve and fine tune CubiTV.

It's been a year and a half and no word, sniff, hint, leak or whatever to give any remote inkling that Disney+ will come to the dvr platform. HBO Max (for reference) is going on a year with the same lack of info it'll come to the ecosystem.

So keep clinging based on nothing but a complete absence of confirmation, and keep up the contempt towards everyone who tries to get you to see the light. You must be a blast at gatherings.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## CurtJester (Apr 1, 2021)

Sam Ray said:


> Has Tivo officially deprecated HME functionality, including Tivo devices that people already own?


I'll skip pointing you at more source code, since it's clear you can't decipher that the plex page I linked checks it's running on Tivo and uses OperaTV, or notice that one of the apps the other page invoked listed HME, but not the others. So, back to tivo.com stuff.

Sadly, developer.tivo.com has been replaced entirely with stuff about the metadata they sell. But, back in the day, there was an SDK. What was the SDK in 2012?

Not a link to HME. Instead, visitors were pointed at an ActionScript-based SDK.

Then, in 2013, Opera SDK support for Roamio was announced. There were also some reactions here, including about HTML5 being better than ActionScript. Certainly the developer's corner here has been busy with HTML5 apps.

So, HME is basically done. Are you ever going to get official notice of deprecation? No, you won't. Companies see any release of information they don't have to do as a liability, and for all we know some creaky part of TE3 depends on HME internals. They did remove access to outside HME apps in Hydra (TE4), though: How is Hydra now?

(Ironic that the HME website explicitly claims no support for playing video on the homepage and in the official docs; you'd think that if they wanted folks to use it, the homepage would emphasize the fact you could use it to play video starting with Series 3 TiVos.. though it sounds like it only supports MPEG-2 these days, which is not what most streaming services use.)


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> we never got Disney+


People are blaming Tivo for that. I am trying to make the point that it is Disney's responsibility.



Dan203 said:


> And that's not to mention the fact that TiVo itself, as a DVR platform, is dying. DVRs in general are becoming less popular because of streaming. Then there's the recent FCC decision to MSOs to stop supporting CableCARDs even though there is no established successor. This is the end of the road for the TiVo DVR. Why would any company pour resources into developing, testing and maintaining an app to run on a platform that is so obviously dying? They wouldn't.


The death of the DVR platform is not relevant here for all of us that have Tivo devices that use CableCards. And here is where an authoritive source is helpful; something like Federal Communications Commission FCC 20-124 (PDF). It is very confusing. Page 8 says _We agree and further find that competitive market forces should incentivize cable operators to continue to support retail CableCARD devices_. Page 9 says _we expect that cable operators will make every effort to retain subscribers by continuing to support retail CableCARD devices, even in the absence of the CableCARD support rules_. So it is not accurate to say they will stop supporting CableCARDs.



Dan203 said:


> You seem to dislike my answer and are looking for some "proof" that doesn't exist. TiVo is never going to come out and say "we're never releasing Disney+". All we can do is make educated guesses based on past experience and our knowledge of the platform. And my experience in that area tells me definitely, it's never going to happen.


It is not a matter of what I like. I am just saying that when someone says something it really helps to provide something authoritive that people can use to ensure that what is said is accurate. Look at the discussion CableCard coming to an end FCC 20-124 | TiVoCommunity Forum. It is 11 pages and very much is speculation about what will happen when support of CableCards will end. Yet all the speculation about dropping support of CableCards is not accurate and creates rumors. I am saying that people should make more of an effort to be accurate.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sam Ray said:


> People are blaming Tivo for that. I am trying to make the point that it is Disney's responsibility.


It's TiVos fault because they haven't updated their apps platform to something more relevant that developers want to support. I looked into submitting an app to TiVo once. Even talked to their app liaison. Their process for getting an app on the TiVo platform is complex and requires a lot of direct interaction with TiVo personnel. If they had upgraded to a more relevant platform, like Android TV, or even just made it easier for developers to self submit apps/upgrades, more developers might be willing to support their platform.



Sam Ray said:


> The death of the DVR platform is not relevant here for all of us that have Tivo devices that use CableCards. And here is where an authoritive source is helpful; something like Federal Communications Commission FCC 20-124 (PDF). It is very confusing. Page 8 says _We agree and further find that competitive market forces should incentivize cable operators to continue to support retail CableCARD devices_. Page 9 says _we expect that cable operators will make every effort to retain subscribers by continuing to support retail CableCARD devices, even in the absence of the CableCARD support rules_. So it is not accurate to say they will stop supporting CableCARDs.


There are already reports of people being refused CableCARDs or even support for the ones they have when they stop working. Sure cable companies will probably keep supporting the ones in the field for the foreseeable future, because why would they alienate a paying customer, but already we're starting to see signs of them refusing to install new ones or techs that simply don't know how because they were never trained to do it.



Sam Ray said:


> It is not a matter of what I like. I am just saying that when someone says something it really helps to provide something authoritive that people can use to ensure that what is said is accurate. Look at the discussion CableCard coming to an end FCC 20-124 | TiVoCommunity Forum. It is 11 pages and very much is speculation about what will happen when support of CableCards will end. Yet all the speculation about dropping support of CableCards is not accurate and creates rumors. I am saying that people should make more of an effort to be accurate.


Sorry but I'm not going to dig through 10 years of threads to gather links to show you that HME is dead and that TiVo uses HMTL based apps now. It's all here if you want to go looking for it. But there are millions of posts on this forum and I'm not going to try and dig through them to find the relevant information for you.

Also you dug up this thread and quoted a post I made a year and a half ago. Why? Why exactly did you target me, in 3 different threads, if all you claim to want is "something authoritative"? I think the fact that I said this a year and a half ago and there is still no Disney+ app pretty much proves I was right, doesn't it?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Sam Ray said:


> Has Tivo officially deprecated HME functionality, including Tivo devices that people already own?


Yes, our older S3 OLED Tivo's lost a number of HME apps that TiVo hosted when they retired their HME infrastructure (TiVo Search went away in 2015 for example - I can't recall if the Netflix and Amazon client were HME apps but I thought they were).

Scott


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Sam Ray said:


> People are blaming Tivo for that. I am trying to make the point that it is Disney's responsibility.
> 
> The death of the DVR platform is not relevant here for all of us that have Tivo devices that use CableCards. And here is where an authoritive source is helpful; something like Federal Communications Commission FCC 20-124 (PDF). It is very confusing. Page 8 says _We agree and further find that competitive market forces should incentivize cable operators to continue to support retail CableCARD devices_. Page 9 says _we expect that cable operators will make every effort to retain subscribers by continuing to support retail CableCARD devices, even in the absence of the CableCARD support rules_. So it is not accurate to say they will stop supporting CableCARDs.
> 
> It is not a matter of what I like. I am just saying that when someone says something it really helps to provide something authoritive that people can use to ensure that what is said is accurate. Look at the discussion CableCard coming to an end FCC 20-124 | TiVoCommunity Forum. It is 11 pages and very much is speculation about what will happen when support of CableCards will end. Yet all the speculation about dropping support of CableCards is not accurate and creates rumors. I am saying that people should make more of an effort to be accurate.


One.... Disney, HBO and the like have zero incentive to make an app for an ancient platform with minimal subscribers in comparison to Android, Apple, Roku, Samsung and so on. Tivo could have updated their platform ages ago. Tivo could have done a lot of things ages ago to keep the platform relevant. How about that Android app so you wouldn't need a Mini? And so many already don't use their tivo dvr for streaming. So you don't even have a full user base that cares about streaming on their dvr. So many that won't even bother upgrading to a bolt or edge that even runs what apps it does have decently. What's the point? No Disney, HBO Max, CBS all access just to name a few.

And as Dan pointed out, the fall has begun in some areas. Cable companies don't care about you or tivo at all. They wish you would all cancel or conform so they don't have to support you in any way, shape or form. And with the new rules, some companies in some markets are already starting to pair down their support.

It seems like you don't read anything outside of what you think is relevant to supporting your opinion and are completely oblivious to what's been going on around you. No idea tivo is operator tier for Android tv on cable. No idea support is starting to dwindle for tivo cable customers. No idea the app platform is pretty much dead.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. So many threads out there of people who have seen the writing on the wall and have moved on or asking for options in moving on because they know and have accepted it. That's why I've been saying to find an alternative and sell your hardware while it still has worth. Unless youve milked every dollar of savings out of it and just don't care.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## Sam Ray (Jul 30, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> Also you dug up this thread and quoted a post I made a year and a half ago. Why? Why exactly did you target me, in 3 different threads, if all you claim to want is "something authoritative"? I think the fact that I said this a year and a half ago and there is still no Disney+ app pretty much proves I was right, doesn't it?


I found the discussions because I was doing what people should do, I was searching for previous answers to the question of whether Disney+ is supported. Don't take it personally; it was not personal.



dbpaddler said:


> And as Dan pointed out, the fall has begun in some areas. Cable companies don't care about you or tivo at all. They wish you would all cancel or conform so they don't have to support you in any way, shape or form. And with the new rules, some companies in some markets are already starting to pair down their support.


Yet there are many people asking about support of Disney+.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Sam Ray said:


> I found the discussions because I was doing what people should do, I was searching for previous answers to the question of whether Disney+ is supported. Don't take it personally; it was not personal.
> 
> Yet there are many people asking about support of Disney+.


And what is everyone else's answer.... Get a streaming device. See... Yet again, you only read what you want to hear because you want Disney+. You ignore the answers they received from those that have accepted. Not really sure what the point do continuing the thread is. Everything you've posted has been debunked. And it has been pointed out that you won't get definitive answers from tivo because it's better to leave it ambiguous and have people like you be hopeful and stick around with some misplaced blind faith or something. I honestly don't get it.

You can point out other people want it, but I haven't seen anyone in any other thread try and defend it anywhere close to the level you have. What disconnect is in your head that you feel the need to cling to the idea that it can happen when not one person agrees with you, and people smarter than me have pointed out why?

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm just genuinely confused by you're willingness not to see what's been pointed out repeatedly and to just let this thread die.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Sam Ray said:


> Yet there are many people asking about support of Disney+.


We also spent two decades asking for user profiles, the ability for multiple TiVos to do cooperative scheduling and custom folders, they still never came. Sometimes you don't get what you ask for.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> We also spent two decades asking for user profiles, the ability for multiple TiVos to do cooperative scheduling and custom folders, they still never came. Sometimes you don't get what you ask for.


We were only granted one wish per decade. And we used one of them to get a Disk Usage meter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Sam Ray said:


> You misunderstand what I mean by authoritive (and I spell it that way because I want to).


Well, you're not going to get an authoritive response, because it's not a word.


Sam Ray said:


> I am using the word in the manner that Wikipedia does.


No, you're not. It's not a word.

This reminds me of a roommate, years ago, who used to say "a mute point." When it was pointed-out that the word (and pronunciation) is "moot," he replied, "I don't care."

- - -
edit: p.s. to be fair to the roommate, he also said one of the more profound things spoken to me, on correcting an observation I'd made. I forget the exact circumstance, but I had remarked on seeing what I considered a beautiful valley, "wow, that'd be a nice place for a home." To which he quickly replied, "nice place for a valley."


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> Well, you're not going to get an authoritive response, because it's not a word.
> 
> No, you're not. It's not a word.
> 
> This reminds me of a roommate, years ago, who used to say "a mute point." When it was pointed-out that the word (and pronunciation) is "moot," he replied, "I don't care."


I would suggest you put an asteriks on those comments.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

I've only skimmed the chatter from Sam Ray and those who have given (to me) totally reasonable responses.

Sam: Why bother wasting time on this? If you care about watching Disney+ on your TV, they support a ton of devices already: Disney+ Supported Devices and Platforms | Disney+. Some are real cheap (e.g. some from Amazon, Google and Roku). Even the $30 Roku Express and Express+ (from Roku) support it. Chromecast is also $30.

Many of those platforms have an increasing user base, unlike TiVo's DVRs. So, it makes sense for Disney to support them.

Companies need to figure out how much $ and resources they should spend to support a platform, if it all. Also, it matters how much of a user base there is in each of the international markets they're in (Disney+ - Wikipedia might reasonably accurate) or planning to expand to. How many international markets is TiVo shipping DVRs in? How about compared to some of those other platforms that Disney+ supports?

What would be the return on investment? How many users would Disney+ gain or keep if they decided to support TiVo? How many would those lose by not supporting it? How much would it cost to support and maintain it on TiVos? How about for a new feature work or A/B testing - Wikipedia they might do on TiVos?

I think it's a pretty good guess that at least these are shipping in many countries outside the US: Playstations, Xboxes, Apple TVs, Chromecasts.

(FWIW, I don't subscribe to Disney+ but I could watch it here on my iPads, iPhone, Android phone, Roku 3, Chromecast, Chromecast w/remote, Roku 3 and Apple TV 4K besides my computers and Chromebook.)


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

kdmorse said:


> We were only granted one wish per decade. And we used one of them to get a Disk Usage meter.


As someone with a 3TB drive on an mpeg4 cable provider, I wish I could see tenths of a percent. 99% isn't nearly as useful as say 99.3%.

31 minute HD show is less than one gigabyte. 1% of the drive is about 30GB.

I would love to have Disney+ added. Not to use as an app, as I'll probably still resort to my Roku. But to use for searching from my TiVo even if I do hop to another device.


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## Clarity5 (Dec 31, 2015)

I found this thread because I was semi fed up with not having any updated apps on my relatively new tivo (after being a customer for a very long time). Not particularly annoyed about apple+, but hbomax and sho? Come on tivo.

the reason Im commenting though is mention about cable cards, i just went through my own thing twice with this box. First was the initial card, and then the mfg stopped support, so Altice sent a new card from a different mfg. It was ridiculous as far as the circular firing squad of customer support reading from their queue cards, having zero knowledge of what they were doing, and telling you “fixed it! It will all be good in a few hrs!”, essentially wiping their hands of the fact they didn't really tether the card.

So I went on twitter. Trust me, cable companies dont want you blasting their incompetence on social media. Find your provider on twitter or FB and post a msg under one of their posts. And watch how fast you get help. Thats when I got someone who knew what they were doing. Someone from real tech support actually called ME without prompting a call. I suppose the same method might work if your cable co is trying to take away your cable card.

HTH…


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yeah you want Tivo for being the best DVR ever, not for apps.

Thanks for the data point about cards.


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