# Battlestar Galactica: The Captains Hand 2-17-06 *Spoilers*



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I liked this episode a lot. Next week looks good too.

They will have to get pretty creative to keep Commander Adama (Not Admiral) and Peagasus if Peagasus is to disapear.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

I hated, hated, hated, HATED John Heard in this episode. His acting was just bad and I couldn't buy him even as the unwilling/unfit Commander of Pegasus.

Kinda glad he died... but taking the Wrath of Khan death route? Meh. 

Next week's looks good. And the ending with Baltar vs. Roslin was VERY riveting. 

But I realized tonight that I'm not looking forward to the show as much as I used to, though... not nearly as much as during season 1. I'm really hoping they get back to the important stuff soon. Like Cylons. I think they still have a plan.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

I thought it was very good as well. What else has billy's replacement been in? She looks so familiar yet I can't place her. I didn't get any help from IMDB, "display" on tivo, nor the credits. 

I found it annoying that the "previously on" had adama naming the commander of the Pegasus when I don't remember it and since there was a whole thread on "who is in command of the pegasus" I'm not the only one. 

Emily


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

This episode kept my attention. I still look forward watching this show!


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

emandbri said:


> I found it annoying that the "previously on" had adama naming the commander of the Pegasus when I don't remember it and since there was a whole thread on "who is in command of the pegasus" I'm not the only one.


They edited out the scene they showed in the previously on from that episode. You don't just not remember it, it was never there! I hope they touch on why they did that in the commentary.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

NoThru22 said:


> You don't just not remember it, it was never there! I hope they touch on why they did that in the commentary.


Yep knew that, I was being sarcastic, sorry it didn't come across online. This seems to be happening more lately, pretty sure they did it on desperate housewives as well when a dr (not the cute one) told Susan to get "get her insurance in order" or something like that.

Emily


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

Was it my imagination or did it appear that the oxygen looked like it was venting "into" the room where Heard was when it should've been leaking out into space?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Excellent ep...so many things I want to comment on...and finally, the story moves a long on many fronts... 

was the gemini delegate the same actress that played the priestess (that died when they were trying to use the arrow to find earth)?

p.s. sorry for starting a thread about this...just didn't see this one!


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

TiVo Bum said:


> Was it my imagination or did it appear that the oxygen looked like it was venting "into" the room where Heard was when it should've been leaking out into space?


That's what I was thinking also right up to the point that the "venting" stopped when he finished turning the last valve. I think what we first thought was the atmosphere venting out into space was the FTL drive coolant venting into the engine room.

While it's very likely that Major-for-a-week Commander Adama won't be killed, at this rate they might as well just put Pegasus commanding officers in red shirts... Was anyone else expecting this episode to be the one where the Pegasus leaves based on the preview clips that had the "The Pegasus jumped away!" line in it? I guess it might be sticking around for a while after all...


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

TiVo Bum said:


> Was it my imagination or did it appear that the oxygen looked like it was venting "into" the room where Heard was when it should've been leaking out into space?


That wasn't the oxygen, that was the coolant that was leaking. He stopped the Coolant Leak and that's why the FTL drives came back online. The Oxygen leak was somewhere else.


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

Tangent said:


> That's what I was thinking also right up to the point that the "venting" stopped when he finished turning the last valve. I think what we first thought was the atmosphere venting out into space was the FTL drive coolant venting into the engine room.





vertigo235 said:


> That wasn't the oxygen, that was the coolant that was leaking. He stopped the Coolant Leak and that's why the FTL drives came back online. The Oxygen leak was somewhere else.


Thanks much for straightening this out for me. Couldn't wrap my feeble mind around that for some reason.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Anubys said:


> was the gemini delegate the same actress that played the priestess (that died when they were trying to use the arrow to find earth)?


Patricia Idlette is the actress who played Sarah in this episode and also "Colonial Day" earlier this season. She also played "Kiffany" the waitress at Der Waffle Haus on "Dead Like Me."

Lorena Gale is the actress who played Priestess Elosha.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Four weeks in a row where the Major Crisis They've Been Facing All Along comes out of the blue...


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

WinBear said:


> Patricia Idlette is the actress who played Sarah in this episode [...] She also played "Kiffany" the waitress at Der Waffle Haus on "Dead Like Me."


Thank you. I was wondering where I knew her from.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

WinBear said:


> Patricia Idlette is the actress who played Sarah in this episode and also "Colonial Day" earlier this season. She also played "Kiffany" the waitress at Der Waffle Haus on "Dead Like Me."


...and I still think it's sad they didn't (couldn't?) hire her to play the main Ancient in the SG-1 episode that takes place in Der Waffle Haus...


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

DLL66 said:


> This episode kept my attention. I still look forward watching this show!


Ditto, best episode in weeks


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Now this was good stuff. 

Roslin outlawing abortion. This one had me & my wife yelling at each other, each with a different opinion. This is the sort of thing that makes BSG good....their needs to be some sort of friction driving the story forward.

Baltar and Zarek teaming up....this is only going to turn out bad. Doesn't it seem like Zarek just hitches his wagon to the strongest person he has access to?

What the frak was Tyrol doing going in to the storage container when the Marines were already on the way? Idiot.

Did anyone think the Adama was going to jump Galactica to help out the Pegasus?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

7thton said:


> Now this was good stuff.


Totally agree....indeed best epispode in weeks.



7thton said:


> Roslin outlawing abortion. This one had me & my wife yelling at each other, each with a different opinion. This is the sort of thing that makes BSG good....their needs to be some sort of friction driving the story forward.


Exactly...whichever side you are on in this issue, this is what makes BSG tick.



7thton said:


> Baltar and Zarek teaming up....this is only going to turn out bad. Doesn't it seem like Zarek just hitches his wagon to the strongest person he has access to?


Yes, this alliance has all sorts of possibilities...and Baltar's monologue at the end was classic!



7thton said:


> What the frak was Tyrol doing going in to the storage container when the Marines were already on the way? Idiot.


Can't agree more...I was hoping for some kind of slimy, nasty sci-fi creature!



7thton said:


> Did anyone think the Adama was going to jump Galactica to help out the Pegasus?


Actually, no I didn't. I thought the five ship recon and rescue idea was a good one.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned... a month between the time periods of the last two episodes? A lot can happen in a month. We're missing tons of backstory potentially. Is this something anybody's done well on TV before? Don't weekly episodes usually take place a little closer together in "TV time"?


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## jerobi (Sep 28, 2000)

Go figure, this episode didn't do much for me. It was transparent the whole way through, other than perhaps the Prez's final decision and the Zarek+Gaeus angle. They telegraphed most of the plot points too early on. Engine room captain who can't make good decisions will give his life to patch his own bad call, Starbuck is kicked off the ship but ends up flying, a dozen shots of the whiteboard human count, etc.

Did anyone else get the feeling that the enemy was running out of battle cruisers before this episode? To have three of them suddenly show up for a trap, perhaps that isn't the case.

Next week's episode looks interesting.


Spoiler



I guess the enemy has a few more re-gen ships out there that are now in range? Or will we be seeing a flashback?



edit: spolierized by request.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Skittles said:


> Next week's looks good. And the ending with Baltar vs. Roslin was VERY riveting.


I like charismatic bad people, makes their successes more plausible.

If you really want a population rise, outlaw contraception as well as abortion (though I imagine everyone's birth control pills are gone by now).

Edit: What about abortions for Raptor pilots who are pregnant? Viper pilots?


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## FieryRobot (Dec 14, 2005)

I certainly thought it was going to be up to Galactica in the end to jump in and save them, but OTOH, I don't think they'd necessarily want to leave the fleet stranded either. But once Apollo was in command I knew they'd probably do this one on their own.

For me the way the Command of the Pegasus died wasn't so much Wrath of Khan as it was ala Kirk in the Enterprise B, only we ain't gonna find him in the Nexus chopping wood.

I was laughing when he tells Apollo "you have the con" and he's like all deer eyed. Then finally mutters "I have the con..." Awesome. I am still very surprised he was given command of that ship after only just making Major, but OTOH, they were running out of competent officers over there.

I really hope they don't get rid of the Pegasus. It gives them a fighting chance and a way to rebuild some 'modern' equipment. Without it, it gets kind of hard to believe that they'll ever survive the way they were losing vipers. That said, I'm sure it will happen someday as with two battlestars, they are pretty powerful... they annihilated those two base stars in "Resurrection Ship"


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Next week looks to be a flashback episode.

Anyone else think Zarek might be behind the pregnant girl showing up on Galactica?


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

jerobi said:


> Go figure, this episode didn't do much for me. It was transparent the whole way through, other than perhaps the Prez's final decision and the Zarek+Gaeus angle. They telegraphed most of the plot points too early on. Engine room captain who can't make good decisions will give his life to patch his own bad call, Starbuck is kicked off the ship but ends up flying, a dozen shots of the whiteboard human count, etc.
> 
> Did anyone else get the feeling that the enemy was running out of battle cruisers before this episode? To have three of them suddenly show up for a trap, perhaps that isn't the case.
> 
> Next week's episode looks interesting. I guess the enemy has a few more re-gen ships out there that are now in range? Or will we be seeing a flashback?


You need to spoilerize the part about next week's episode!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Four weeks in a row where the Major Crisis They've Been Facing All Along comes out of the blue...


Bingo! That's annoying and reflects a lack of management discipline in the story arc, something that unfortunately has become the season 2.5 norm.

That being said the episode was an improvement over the past several because of the interesting dynamics between Admiral Adama & the Pres on the need for population increase, Baltar's manipulated insertion into the election campaign and the well developed relationship between Starbuck and Apollo, especially their last scene.

Let's get back to Boomer and the spylons!


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

Good episode.

I have a hard time believing that Adama would put an engineer with no prior combat experience, in command of the Pegasus. To hell with all the, "it had to be a member of the original Pegasus crew" nonsense. Even a drunk Col. Tigh would have made more sense.

I like the idea of Baltar running for president, but he became irredeemable in my mind after he gave Gina the nuke. That's makes him a lot less interesting, IMO.


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## chronatog7 (Aug 26, 2004)

I like the series, but I feel that is not good that everyone is getting promoted so quickly. The promotions change the dynamic among all characters. They should cherish those events a little more. Form where Commander Apollo Adama can go from here? Another Promotion or Demotion? 

Time will tell!


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

chronatog7 said:


> I like the series, but I feel that is not good that everyone is getting promoted so quickly. The promotions change the dynamic among all characters. They should cherish those events a little more. Form where Commander Apollo Adama can go from here? Another Promotion or Demotion?
> 
> Time will tell!


Well, assuming that the title of the show is not going to be changed to "Battlestars Galactica and Pegasus," Lee will have to be demoted eventually. Either that, or he'll have to be killed off


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I'm glad John Heard was a red shirt character. After he had saved the day I expected to hear him say "Ship... Out of danger?" and then go on about the needs of the many. I had caught the references to Major Adama in last week's previews. I was wondering how long it would take before he was in command of Pegasus. Maybe we'll get an episode with the Pegasus crew mumbling about nepotism. I guess he and Dee are going to have to either put things on hold or make some other arrangements since they're going to be stationed on different ships.

As for next week:



Spoiler



it looks like they're finally going to answer some questions about how the Cylons are resurrected. It looks interesting. Maybe they'll reveal yet another model. It's been a while. I think the last one we met was Xena, Warrior Cylon and it looks like she's back next week.


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## jerobi (Sep 28, 2000)

7thton said:


> You need to spoilerize the part about next week's episode!


I was tying to be vague with it. Would anyone really be in this thread talking about this week's episode that hasn't seen the promo teaser for next week that immediately followed the episode? Just curious if that's part of the protocol.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

jerobi said:


> I was tying to be vague with it. Would anyone really be in this thread talking about this week's episode that hasn't seen the promo teaser for next week that immediately followed the episode? Just curious if that's part of the protocol.


Yes. Some people feel the previews give too much away. Forum rules say that we need to spoilerize anything from the previews.


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## jerobi (Sep 28, 2000)

PJO1966 said:


> Yes. Some people feel the previews give too much away. Forum rules say that we need to spoilerize anything from the previews.


Yep, I see it in JAP's post. My bad.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

one thing they didn't discuss is do they have enough room/supplies for a population growth? that seems to be something to do once they find a place to colonize... 

someone mentioned that they wonder if Zareck is behind the pregnant girl...I thought they made it clear that there has been a steady pipeline of girls coming to the doc, it just so happens that this one got caught...so I don't think Zareck is behind it...


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I don't think this episode can be accused of not having build-up. I thought the whole thing was very realistic: there's this issue _in the civilian fleet_ that's been percolating for a long time, but the military and even the government (which means us too, since that's who we follow) have not noticed it at all. Then _bam_ all of a sudden it's a big mess right in their laps. I think that's very plausible, and I liked it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

questfortruth said:


> Even a drunk Col. Tigh would have made more sense.


Heh. As I was watching John Heard almost literally destroy the Pegasus through his mismanagement, I thought "Tigh must be delighted. He's no longer the worst commander in the galaxy!"


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## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

A better back to basics episode, although, as previously posted, somewhat (way too much, actually) predictable.

Concerning the previously on for this episode: I thought that was a cheap way out, but at least we had some sort of continuity for engaging into tonight's episode.

As to the preview scenes for each episode during the opening credits:  : I didn't get to my remote fast enough and got to see the Pegasus taking it to her midsection. Thanks, that took all the fun out of wondering if it was indeed a Cylon trick or something else, , , so that was ruined for me!

Previews for next week: I DO NOT WATCH THEM, PLEASE STOP POSTING ABOUT THEM WITHOUT SPOILERIZING THEM!!! OK, I'm not really that upset about it, but as you can see, it tends to ruin the show for me 

Glad to see the Prez. go against herself. Nice touch. And the whole Giaus interruption was terrifically played! I liked watching Six and her bittersweet expression; so he thinks I'm no more than a machine, yet I am so proud of him.

John Heard; yuck. This character sucked. Either make him power hungry, stupid, or bumbling, but combining these traits and disobeying a direct order seemed too far out of reality for me to take. The same goes for Tyrel. Hey numbnuts, its not just you we're trying to save here, its the entire human race!!!

I don't find D's and Apollo's relationship believable in the least, never have. There is no chemistry there, at least not onscreen 

I guess these Cylons don't care about dying, huh?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

From Sci-Fi's web site:



> EPISODE 217: "THE CAPTAIN'S HAND"
>  Due to technical difficulties, Ronald Moore was unable to record this episode's podcast in time for broadcast.


I hope this doesn't mean there won't be one at all this week. I enjoy listening to his comments.


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

ovr8ted said:


> I guess these Cylons don't care about dying, huh?


On the contrary, the basestar that Pegasus singled out started to retreat, as soon as she took heavy damage. I think that suggests that the Cylons are not especially eager to die.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

questfortruth said:


> On the contrary, the basestar that Pegasus singled out started to retreat, as soon as she took heavy damage. I think that suggests that the Cylons are not especially eager to die.


Not to mention they managed to draw the Pegasus away from Galactica. They knew they had a much better chance against one Battlestar than they would have against two.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

The main "out of the blue" feeling I got was from them suddenly singling out the Gemini (Geminians?) as the religious fanatics of the fleet. Previously it had always been presented as invidividual people having verying degrees of faith throughout the Colonies. Certainly when Roslyn was in her "Moses" phase, there was no sense that all the religious fervor surrounding her was coming from one particular Colony...


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## Alvis (Jan 4, 2005)

questfortruth said:


> Good episode.
> Even a drunk Col. Tigh would have made more sense.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Heh. As I was watching John Heard almost literally destroy the Pegasus through his mismanagement, I thought "Tigh must be delighted. He's no longer the worst commander in the galaxy!"


Tigh was passed over for promotion twice now and his former CAG became his superior officer. IMO Tigh isn't a type to care about rank but this has to hurt him.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> The main "out of the blue" feeling I got was from them suddenly singling out the Gemini (Geminians?) as the religious fanatics of the fleet. Previously it had always been presented as invidividual people having verying degrees of faith throughout the Colonies. Certainly when Roslyn was in her "Moses" phase, there was no sense that all the religious fervor surrounding her was coming from one particular Colony...


They've mentioned several times in past episodes that it was the Geminons who were the most religeous. When Roslyn was in the brig and the Quorum of 12 came to see her, they consulted with the same woman about the scriptures Roslyn was quoting.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Alvis said:


> Tigh was passed over for promotion twice now and his former CAG became his superior officer. IMO Tigh isn't a type to care about rank but this has to hurt him.


I don't think it's a matter of caring about rank--he's terrible at command, and he knows it. He must be living in a constant state of horror at the thought that someday, Adama might put HIM in charge of Pegasus. He remembers what happened when he was commanding Galactica, and I bet he would do almost anything to avoid a repeat.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

PJO1966 said:


> They've mentioned several times in past episodes that it was the Geminons who were the most religeous. When Roslyn was in the brig and the Quorum of 12 came to see her, they consulted with the same woman about the scriptures Roslyn was quoting.


Hmm, perhaps, but if so it wasn't clear to me. I think you're right about the Geminon delegate, but I guess I just assumed that she, personally, was the most religious of the delegates --and I don't recall them pointing out whose delegate she was, anyway?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> Hmm, perhaps, but if so it wasn't clear to me. I think you're right about the Geminon delegate, but I guess I just assumed that she, personally, was the most religious of the delegates --and I don't recall them pointing out whose delegate she was, anyway?


IIRC they said something like "you're from Gemanon, what does the scripture say?" or something like that. They've mentioned it a few times. I don't remember much but for some reason that stuck in my head.


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## FieryRobot (Dec 14, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I hope this doesn't mean there won't be one at all this week. I enjoy listening to his comments.


From RDM's blog:



> February 17, 2006
> Podcast delayed
> 
> Sorry all -- I'm travelling and couldn't get the podcast on "Captain's Hand" out in time for tonight's broadcast. I'll do it over the weekend and get it uploaded next week.
> ...


So it looks like there'll be one. Hooray!


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

7thton said:


> What the frak was Tyrol doing going in to the storage container when the Marines were already on the way? Idiot.


I'm betting he's a link in the pipeline that's been helping the girls get to the doctor. He already knew who/what would be in the container. This was just the first time that the girl was spotted before he was able to sneak her off the deck.



> Did anyone think the Adama was going to jump Galactica to help out the Pegasus?


Nope. For all they knew the fake distress signal wasn't designed to lure them into a trap, but to lure them away from the fleet leaving it defenseless.

The Cylons are definitely still being more cautious in their dealings with the fleet. The used to jump in just one basestar to fight. This time they lured one away and sent 3 basestars in to gang up on it. Not to mention that they wet straight to using nukes instead of just sending Raiders.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

7thton said:


> You need to spoilerize the part about next week's episode!


Then don't quote the spoiler, unspoilerized, in your own post.

The Geminese have always been portrayed as being the most faithful. Now who is the most blasphemous? The Capricans?


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## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

questfortruth said:


> On the contrary, the basestar that Pegasus singled out started to retreat, as soon as she took heavy damage. I think that suggests that the Cylons are not especially eager to die.


Ahh, yes. Perhaps I need to start watching this show on Saturday, as Friday 10PM leaves me a little lacking in the details department :up:


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'll also chime in...I was not surprised at all that the Gemini people are the most religious...I thought that was established before...


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## FieryRobot (Dec 14, 2005)

Anubys said:


> I'll also chime in...I was not surprised at all that the Gemini people are the most religious...I thought that was established before...


Absolutely. I even remember the scene where the guard wanted the President to pray with him. Guess where he was from?


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

You guys are too funny w/your Trek references. I saw the Wrath of Kahn parallels but the Kirk and "ship.. out of danger" parts made me LOL. 

The confrontation between Adama and the engineer seemed straight out of Crimson Tide though. Perhaps it was copied from somewhere else?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Meh. I've been tired of pegasus stories since the first episode with the pegasus. It seems like the writers are trying to externalize prejudice and incompetence to another ship rather than the more interesting stories that used to involve galactica's crew. I am hoping this is the end of pegasus as bad plots.

I enjoyed baltar's speech, because it seemed obvious to me that he couldn't give a rat's touchie one way or the other on the issue, but just was exploiting a weakness.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

7thton said:


> Roslin outlawing abortion. This one had me & my wife yelling at each other, each with a different opinion. This is the sort of thing that makes BSG good....their needs to be some sort of friction driving the story forward.





vman41 said:


> If you really want a population rise, outlaw contraception as well as abortion (though I imagine everyone's birth control pills are gone by now).


Ban abortion without banning contraception; illogical. Without evidence that the children can be raised well; crazy. Based on extrapolating a short term post disaster trends over 18 years; moronic. Taking Baltar's word on the population trend; suicidal.

Now if that has been a trick to check Baltar's answers against other scientists, then that would have been a good idea.

But Roslin moved way to fast. This is a long term problem, not a short term crisis. She had time to get better numbers and try less drastic solutions first.

Based on the little we saw in the Black Market episode, which some children being sold or taking into virtual slavery, I don't have high confidence that the fleet has a mechanism (either adhoc or planned, either private or governmental) to raise children who's parents don't want them or who have been orphaned. So making abortions illegal is likely to cause people to be raising (or abandoning) children that they didn't want. Raising the number of humans just to raise the number of humans is a bad idea; you need to raise the children, not just have more. (Or possibly worse for the long term survival of humans, people will have black market abortions; which are likely to have much higher changes of complications which could include death or sterility of the woman receiving the abortion.)

If the goal is the long term survival of human, Roslin would have been much better off working to convince people that having children was patriotic, and working to make it less difficult to raise and school the children.

Oh, when Baltar started to talk at the press conference my first thought was that he was going to try to tie the administration's decision to ban abortions to Roslin's status as a prophet. Imply that she thought that the feelings on the religious Geminese were more important than other parts of the fleet. Then having staked out a false position for the administration he could have later broken with it and further played up the scientific vs. religious theme that Zarus was laying out for Baltar to use.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I agree that she should be establishing a program for unwanted children and standards for raising children. I am somewhat surprised it wasn't something they wrote into the script. It's interesting to me that they haven't figured out RFIDs for people yet in this universe, which would solve many problems, including children getting misplaced. I guess then baltar would bemoan the loss of privacy.


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Meh. I've been tired of pegasus stories since the first episode with the pegasus. It seems like the writers are trying to externalize prejudice and incompetence to another ship rather than the more interesting stories that used to involve galactica's crew. I am hoping this is the end of pegasus as bad plots.
> 
> ...


Well the Pegasus is the new member of the fleet and is the one adapting to not only working in a fleet instead of autonomously, but also the loss of a few commanders. While Galactica and the rest of the fleet has more or less found a routine, Pegasus will still have alot of adjusting to do before it's settled in so it makes perfect sense to me that most of the action is centered on it right now...


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## DVC California (Jun 4, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think it's a matter of caring about rank--he's terrible at command, and he knows it. He must be living in a constant state of horror at the thought that someday, Adama might put HIM in charge of Pegasus. He remembers what happened when he was commanding Galactica, and I bet he would do almost anything to avoid a repeat.


I don't think it is as much that Tigh would be a terrible commander; he's had his moments when he had to make the tough decisions and they worked out (locking down one of the bays on fire during the original cyclon attack plus networking the ships computers so they could find the fleet.)

Although Tigh is admittedly more comfortable being second behind Adama, it is the fear that Ellen Tigh will influence Sol more than his own common sense. In fact, I bet that will be a good plot point for her to again manipulate Tigh by badgering him on how Bill passed him by and promoted his mutinous son in his place.

My two cents, Steve


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

This episode was by far the best in season 2.5 I just hope the show gets back on track soon. It is time to get back to the main story arc and leave some of the petty stuff behind. I really like baltar backstabbing the president it is about time someone puts her richous ass in her place. They desperatly need another strong commander type to play off of adama. I was not convinced of lee's military stratagy and poise.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Tangent said:


> Well the Pegasus is the new member of the fleet and is the one adapting to not only working in a fleet instead of autonomously, but also the loss of a few commanders. While Galactica and the rest of the fleet has more or less found a routine, Pegasus will still have alot of adjusting to do before it's settled in so it makes perfect sense to me that most of the action is centered on it right now...


I don't mind the action being centered on it. It's what they are doing while it's centered on the pegasus that is bugging me. It has consistently been the antagonist in one way or another since the first episode it appeared. How about some plots that don't make the pegasus into everything wrong with humanity? Before the pegasus, galactica itself had issues with command and prejudice. Now suddenly the writers have just offloaded all of those things and put them on pegasus. It's a cheap way to accomplish whatever plot points they want to. Blame it on the pegasus, no one likes that ship.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

DVC California said:


> I don't think it is as much that Tigh would be a terrible commander; he's had his moments when he had to make the tough decisions and they worked out (locking down one of the bays on fire during the original cyclon attack plus networking the ships computers so they could find the fleet.)
> 
> Although Tigh is admittedly more comfortable being second behind Adama, it is the fear that Ellen Tigh will influence Sol more than his own common sense. In fact, I bet that will be a good plot point for her to again manipulate Tigh by badgering him on how Bill passed him by and promoted his mutinous son in his place.
> 
> My two cents, Steve


Agreed.

Every single colossal frackup we've seen Tigh make was the result of direct influence from Ellen. When she leaves him alone, he's a competent commander, at least, perhaps even more than competent.

It also seems to be her influence that drives him to drink. She encourages him to drink directly, then when her influence causes him to make colossal mistakes, he gets drunk rather than face the reality of his mistakes.

There's an old adage that goes, "Behind every great man is a great woman." (It's an old adage, yes, it's rather sexist.)

I've noticed in real life, that often the opposite is true too: behind a lot of men not measuring up to their full potential is a manipulative shrew!

Battlestar Galactica has portrayed this effect beautifully in the Saul/Ellen dynamic.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Every single colossal frackup we've seen Tigh make was the result of direct influence from Ellen. When she leaves him alone, he's a competent commander, at least, perhaps even more than competent.


I don't think it's that simple. Yes, he's very good at making very tough decisions WHEN ADAMA IS IN COMMAND. Because he knows it's not ultimate his responsibility--Adama can always override him. But when he's in command on his own, he's indecisive, uncertain, and once he makes a bad decision, he's terrible at dealing with the consequences.

He's a great second-in-command. He's a terrible commander, even without Ellen's influence. She just makes him even worse.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

ovr8ted said:


> Glad to see the Prez. go against herself. Nice touch.


I thought it was a great twist that she allowed the girl who prompted all this to have her abortion. That was sure a surprise! As to the whole issue of abortion, isn't it quite ironic that Roslyn is banning the practice she had just directed with regard to Sharon's baby?



Jonathan_S said:


> Ban abortion without banning contraception; illogical. Without evidence that the children can be raised well; crazy. Based on extrapolating a short term post disaster trends over 18 years; moronic. Taking Baltar's word on the population trend; suicidal.
> 
> Now if that has been a trick to check Baltar's answers against other scientists, then that would have been a good idea.
> 
> ...


Great points! I kept thinking bringing unwanted babies into their society wasn't a smart thing (just like I don't believe it that for real life).



ovr8ted said:


> I don't find D's and Apollo's relationship believable in the least, never have. There is no chemistry there, at least not onscreen


I agree. Can't stand her with Apollo! She comes across as such a passive personality and boring character. I mean, in real life, opposite usually attract, so he should be with Starbuck.

I know Colonel Tighe has his issues with alcohol, but he's the highest ranking officer after Adama, so I still think he should be sent to command Pegasus. Imagine the drammatic opportunities that would produce? Apollo being sent just SO smacks of nepotism! As to all these recent "battlefield promotions," they do seem pretty unbelieveable to me. I can only assume, they wanted Apollo to continue to outrank Starbuck (and had to promote him since she recently made Captain). What really bugs me though is the incongruity of them combining Naval and Army, Air Force, or Marine ranks. Commander and Admiral are Navy; Lieutenant, Captain (as used as 0-3), Major, Colonel are all ranks of the other services. Do the producers even know the difference or is this just part of the "Sci-Fi" alternative universe? 

Cheryl


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Perhaps it is Dualla, not Billy that is the spylon, when Apollo was just a lowly CAG (compared to his new position) Dualla allied herself to Billy (who had the president's arm), but she quickly changed her tune as Apollo started to rise through the ranks.

I believe the Admiral Adama not choosing Tigh to Captain the Pegasus was due to how Tigh handled the fleet whilst he was in charge during the time at Adama was incapacitated. Adama didn't want another Kaine in charge of Pegasus.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think it's that simple. Yes, he's very good at making very tough decisions WHEN ADAMA IS IN COMMAND. Because he knows it's not ultimate his responsibility--Adama can always override him. But when he's in command on his own, he's indecisive, uncertain, and once he makes a bad decision, he's terrible at dealing with the consequences.
> 
> He's a great second-in-command. He's a terrible commander, even without Ellen's influence. She just makes him even worse.


I completely agree that with or without Ellen, he has no self confidence, and indeed, self confidence is a necessary ingredient in a commander.

However, I was agreeing with DVC California, who made the observation that we've seen Tigh make inspired command decisions that suggest that if he were to be able to overcome his own self confidence issues... and Ellen, he might make a good commander in his own right.

I think the best example of this is when he networked the computers to find the fleet that had jumped to the wrong place.

This was done when Adama was in the coma, and it was pointed out that Adama would never have taken that risk. But the risk was essentially mandatory if they were ever to find the rest of the fleet. He took the risk, and it paid off. A wrenchingly tough command decision, but when it was necessary to make it, Tigh came through in the clutch.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

speedcouch said:


> What really bugs me though is the incongruity of them combining Naval and Army, Air Force, or Marine ranks. Commander and Admiral are Navy; Lieutenant, Captain (as used as 0-3), Major, Colonel are all ranks of the other services. Do the producers even know the difference or is this just part of the "Sci-Fi" alternative universe?


Um, you do realize that Galactica is not an American ship, right?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I thought we had seen in previous episodes that Tigh did not want to be in command of anything... something about their past together and some flashbacks.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Um, you do realize that Galactica is not an American ship, right?


What? Is it French or something? I'm confused.


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> What? Is it French or something? I'm confused.


If it was French they would have surrendered in the mini-series


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

ihatecable said:


> If it was French they would have surrendered in the mini-series


Touché


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

ihatecable said:


> If it was French they would have surrendered in the mini-series


Best. Post. Of. The. Day.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Anubys said:


> I'll also chime in...I was not surprised at all that the Gemini people are the most religious...I thought that was established before...


I don't remember the Genii as being particularly religious. Colm, for example, seemed to care more about fighting the Wraith than he did about religion.

Oh, wait...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I thought we had seen in previous episodes that Tigh did not want to be in command of anything... something about their past together and some flashbacks.


Exactly. I thought that it had been well established that Tigh is deathly afraid of command and never even had the aspirations to be in the military if it hadn't been for Bill bringing him along when he (Bill) was promoted. Also, it was well established that Tigh was a drunk long before they introduced Ellen. I don't think you can blame all of Tigh's shortcomings on her.

I was a little pissed off at how quickly and unexpectedly Apollo was promoted. It would have made much more sense if we had previously seen a scene which involved Admiral Adama, Tigh, Roslin, etc. debating about who to promote to command Pegasus after the murder in "Black Market" and them discussing the lack of command-level officers in the fleet and the need to begin promoting some of the more-experienced officers. It would also have helped understand how John Heard's character came out of nowhere as the Pegasus commander.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

There are several good reasons for Apollo's promotion.

1) He already demonstrated a capacity for command while the engineer/commander went to work on the ship. He stayed calm under pressure and managed to win through to another day. He also remained in control and calm during the Admiral Caine reign of terror even though he was demoted and put upon. 

2) For what it's worth he has a mind of his own and is not a yes man, while at the same time there's a level of trust between Adama and Apollo that transcends typical military rank. It's also possible that the Admiral now agrees with Lee's stance last season in siding with the president. 

3) The President will also support Apollo as a commander of the vessel and their relationship will strengthen the fleet. This also goes back to having someone from the original survivors command the pegasus so that the while fleet is represented through the command of that asset. The previous commander had more loyalty to his crew than to the fleet, Apollo won't let that happen. 

Having been a fan of the original series I can't help but wonder how far they are going to take this pegasus storyline. Part of me keeps thinking that it'll have the same fate as the original, but with Apollo in command I wonder how that will happen, if ever. It'll certainly be interesting, but with Apollo in the command chair I don't see him being in any action scenes like before.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I totally agree that Apollo was ready for the command, I just think it would have made better sense if it had been set up by a scene such as the one I outlined. As it is, it seems more like nepotism than ability.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> I totally agree that Apollo was ready for the command, I just think it would have made better sense if it had been set up by a scene such as the one I outlined. As it is, it seems more like nepotism than ability.


I agree...had he done something great/daring/unusual/brave to save Pegasus, I would understand it more...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

devdogaz said:


> I totally agree that Apollo was ready for the command, I just think it would have made better sense if it had been set up by a scene such as the one I outlined.


But BG seems to have abandoned setting things up lately...I've just come to take it for granted that every episode, things will come out of the blue.


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## chewbaccad (Feb 16, 2005)

I'm kinda hoping that when they do "get rid of the Pegasus" it will be because the Beast jumped back to Caprica. I miss the old dual storylines that gave season one a distinct appeal.

That said, I thought this was a great episode. And some of the effects shots were beautiful.


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## FieryRobot (Dec 14, 2005)

chewbaccad said:


> And some of the effects shots were beautiful.


Tell me about it... that opening shot of the Pegasus was amazing. Too bad I can't see it in HD :-(


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> There's an old adage that goes, "Behind every great man is a great woman." (It's an old adage, yes, it's rather sexist.)
> 
> I've noticed in real life, that often the opposite is true too: behind a lot of men not measuring up to their full potential is a manipulative shrew!


I don't know about real-life, but between this show and 24, it sure rings true. 

I loved the doc throwing out the "asylum" option from the peanut gallery. "Yeah, what he said!"


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I agree...had he done something great/daring/unusual/brave to save Pegasus, I would understand it more...


OK, I'll grant you that he handled the situation well when the other commander gave him the con. However, were we to understand that he was the XO of Pegasus? I never got that from the episode and thought it was odd that he was given the con at all. Then the ending kind of came out of nowhere. Would Apollo be in line to command Galactica if Adama and Tigh weren't there? I've never gotten the sense that he was third in command, just that he has the ear of Adama because of the family relationship.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> OK, I'll grant you that he handled the situation well when the other commander gave him the con. However, were we to understand that he was the XO of Pegasus? I never got that from the episode and thought it was odd that he was given the con at all. Then the ending kind of came out of nowhere. Would Apollo be in line to command Galactica if Adama and Tigh weren't there? I've never gotten the sense that he was third in command, just that he has the ear of Adama because of the family relationship.


Well, as CAG (which I assume stands for Commander, Air Group - that's what it's called in the US Navy) for either Galactica (which he was last year) or Pegasus (which was his position during this ep), Lee was in charge of the fighter wing, and as such it would make the most sense for him to be 3rd in command (behind the CO and XO) during a combat operation, which this one was. As for non-combat times I suppose the chain of command is less clear, but I would still posit that CAG would be 3rd in command. After all, who else is left that has leadership and management experience?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Well, as CAG (which I assume stands for Commander, Air Group - that's what it's called in the US Navy) for either Galactica (which he was last year) or Pegasus (which was his position during this ep), Lee was in charge of the fighter wing, and as such it would make the most sense for him to be 3rd in command (behind the CO and XO) during a combat operation, which this one was. As for non-combat times I suppose the chain of command is less clear, but I would still posit that CAG would be 3rd in command. After all, who else is left that has leadership and management experience?


I'm sure you are right. I'm just saying that they haven't really made the chain of command clear throughout the series. I've always felt like we focused on a select few of the people on board but that there are hundreds more, probably many in various leadership capacities, that we never see. When Apollo transferred to Pegasus in this episode, I'm not sure it was ever stated what his new job was, but I didn't get the sense that he was the new XO as that would probably require the rank of Colonel and he was barely a brand-new Major. Therefore, for him to be made commander ahead of whoever was the XO seems kind of strange.

I'm not saying what the characters did was wrong or even unexpected. I'm simply saying that the writers should have put some kind of short scene into one of the recent episodes where the top brass discussed the lack of command-level officers and promoting certain qualified candidates into leadership roles.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

Is there any website where I can get a good summary of the episode? My cable box did not go to the right channel and I discovered that to late to get a repeat of the episode.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> I'm sure you are right. I'm just saying that they haven't really made the chain of command clear throughout the series. I've always felt like we focused on a select few of the people on board but that there are hundreds more, probably many in various leadership capacities, that we never see. When Apollo transferred to Pegasus in this episode, I'm not sure it was ever stated what his new job was, but I didn't get the sense that he was the new XO as that would probably require the rank of Colonel and he was barely a brand-new Major. Therefore, for him to be made commander ahead of whoever was the XO seems kind of strange.


I'm fairly certain that it was explicitly mentioned that Apollo was the new Pegasus CAG, and was taking over because Starbuck was screwing up too much.

I don't recall whether there was ever any mention of who the new Pegasus XO was. It may well be that a CO gets to appoint his own XO, and since the new Pegasus CO was only just appointed by Adama that the CO (whatever Heard's character's name was) had not yet had a chance to appoint one. As such, he had no one but Apollo to turn command over to. But, of course, I'm just speculating. 



devdogaz said:


> I'm not saying what the characters did was wrong or even unexpected. I'm simply saying that the writers should have put some kind of short scene into one of the recent episodes where the top brass discussed the lack of command-level officers and promoting certain qualified candidates into leadership roles.


Didn't they talk about it in the "previously on" (which was never actually previously shown, to my knowledge) intro where Tigh protests that Heard isn't the right man to lead Pegasus, and Adama says he's the best choice, but says it in a way that implies that there is a dearth of qualified candidates?

Otherwise, agreed.


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## jwreiner (Aug 19, 2003)

I initially thought this was a pretty good episode, I think because I like to see the battles with the cylons. But the whole thing about fixing the FTL is pretty darn silly. The ship is getting rocked with nukes, but fixing the FTL involves turning three valves. It is easy to write and film, which is why something similar has been done hundreds of times, often better. Whenever they do this on TV or in movies, I always wonder why the valves are there in the first place. If things work fine with them open or closed, why are they there? 

Oh right, so someone can close them to save the day.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I'm fairly certain that it was explicitly mentioned that Apollo was the new Pegasus CAG, and was taking over because Starbuck was screwing up too much.
> 
> I don't recall whether there was ever any mention of who the new Pegasus XO was. It may well be that a CO gets to appoint his own XO, and since the new Pegasus CO was only just appointed by Adama that the CO (whatever Heard's character's name was) had not yet had a chance to appoint one. As such, he had no one but Apollo to turn command over to. But, of course, I'm just speculating.
> 
> ...


I rewatched that "Previously On" bit. They used some creative editing when Adama and Tighe were talking about the engineer being promoted to Commander. You never actually saw either of them talk on camera. When Adama was talking there was a close-up of Tighe. When Tighe was talking there was a close-up of Adama. It was a nice save and was well done. They didn't have to reshoot the scene and the actors could be brought in to do some quick VO lines.


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## nedthelab (Oct 4, 2002)

Did any one notice when (John Heard) said God Damn it during the I'm going to fix the ship part and give up my life - they always say Gods Damn it (plural) - Gaff perhaps


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

Apollo's promotion seems perfectly plausible.

Unless there's another "one month later" leap, then the Pegasus is going to be in rough shape for awhile. She took three direct Nuke hits, was bombarded at close range by three Basestars, and used up all of her heavy ammo.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> was the gemini delegate the same actress that played the priestess (that died when they were trying to use the arrow to find earth)?


This must be the most inadvertantly racist comment I've ever seen on these boards!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jwreiner said:


> If things work fine with them open or closed, why are they there?


Reminded me of the scene in "Galaxy Quest" where Sigourney Weaver has to crawl through a space with some completely idiotic obstacles:

[Gwen and Jason encounter the chompers]
Gwen DeMarco: What is this thing? I mean, it serves no useful purpose for there to be a bunch of chompy, crushy things in the middle of a hallway. No, I mean we shouldn't have to do this, it makes no logical sense, why is it here?
Jason Nesmith: 'Cause it's on the television show.
Gwen DeMarco: Well forget it, I'm not doing it, this episode was badly written.



speedcouch said:


> I kept thinking bringing unwanted babies into their society wasn't a smart thing (just like I don't believe it that for real life).


And just like in real life, there might be persons out there who want nothing more than to adopt that unwanted baby.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jwreiner said:


> I initially thought this was a pretty good episode, I think because I like to see the battles with the cylons. But the whole thing about fixing the FTL is pretty darn silly. The ship is getting rocked with nukes, but fixing the FTL involves turning three valves. It is easy to write and film, which is why something similar has been done hundreds of times, often better. Whenever they do this on TV or in movies, I always wonder why the valves are there in the first place. If things work fine with them open or closed, why are they there?
> 
> Oh right, so someone can close them to save the day.


Well they did mention that the problem with the FTL was that the primary coolant loop had failed. So the combination of those four valves shut off the primary coolant loop from the FTL (stopping the leak) and connected the secondary coolant loop to the FTL (so it had cooling and could function).

Without those values the primary and secondary coolant loops would always be connected and a any leak in any coolant pipe would drain the whole system.

So it's not totally illogical; but its darn convenient that all the nukes did was break one pipe.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I didn't even pay attention to how the valves were connected to the FTL functionality... does it really matter? The point is they needed fixing to get the FTL working.

Who really cares about the inner workings of the technology they use? I sure don't.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

jwreiner said:


> Whenever they do this on TV or in movies, I always wonder why the valves are there in the first place. If things work fine with them open or closed, why are they there?


I imagine they are usally there so you can isolate different pieces for maintainence. PBS had a documentary on a nuclear sub and there were pipes 
and valves all over the place.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

speedcouch said:


> What really bugs me though is the incongruity of them combining Naval and Army, Air Force, or Marine ranks. Commander and Admiral are Navy; Lieutenant, Captain (as used as 0-3), Major, Colonel are all ranks of the other services. Do the producers even know the difference or is this just part of the "Sci-Fi" alternative universe?
> 
> Cheryl


Good points regarding the Pres's approach towards the population issues.

Regarding your quote, this really annoys me about BSG. It's becomming more and more apparent that the writing team is simply too LAZY to do any research to construct a detailed, coherent background. A well constructed background makes character oriented episodes better because viewers are not distracted by annoying discordant anomalies that suddenly intrude and distract from the story. We've already seen zero regard for any scientific fact on the show, not even a self-consistent alternative fantasy, but the blatant disregard of military ranks in a show so grounded in the military is just sloppy writing.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> the blatant disregard of military ranks in a show so grounded in the military is just sloppy writing


Judging by the podcasts, Moore is quite a military buff. I really doubt it's disregard. I wouldn't be surprised if they mix it up just to make it somewhat different from earth. Remember, this is not the US Navy...


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Judging by the podcasts, Moore is quite a military buff. I really doubt it's disregard. I wouldn't be surprised if they mix it up just to make it somewhat different from earth. Remember, this is not the US Navy...


Obviously if we had intersteller vehicles capable of supporting the military, all of the armed services branches would want to be represented. I think this is what we are looking at on BSG. Obviously as well they've had to reconcile certain ranks between the branches, specifically that of Captain, which in this case is translated to Commander with regard to the ranking officer in charge of a Battlestar.

I'm going on memory however but I still think smaller ships and commercial vessels on BSG still use the Captain designation for the highest ranking officer.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Obviously if we had intersteller vehicles capable of supporting the military, all of the armed services branches would want to be represented. I think this is what we are looking at on BSG. Obviously as well they've had to reconcile certain ranks between the branches, specifically that of Captain, which in this case is translated to Commander with regard to the ranking officer in charge of a Battlestar.
> 
> I'm going on memory however but I still think smaller ships and commercial vessels on BSG still use the Captain designation for the highest ranking officer.


Yes, any officer commanding a ship is usually called "Captain" even though that's not his official rank. I have no problem with that. I guess what I do have a problem with is mixing "Commander" for Adama with his next rank after being promoted as Admiral. And that his second in command is a Colonel. Just plain weird! But as I said, I'm sure it's just the "alternative universe" they're operating in for TV. Also, loved that "France" references yesterday. 

Cheryl


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## jwreiner (Aug 19, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I didn't even pay attention to how the valves were connected to the FTL functionality... does it really matter? The point is they needed fixing to get the FTL working.
> 
> Who really cares about the inner workings of the technology they use? I sure don't.


There are no inner workings of the technology. It is just a hackneyed scene. Next week they will have Apollo trying to decided whether to cut the red wire or the blue wire, he'll start to cut one, then wipe his brow, cut the other, and save the day.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I was under the impression the complaints were about how the pipes were connected. I agree that the scene was very clichéd.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jwreiner said:


> There are no inner workings of the technology. It is just a hackneyed scene. Next week they will have Apollo trying to decided whether to cut the red wire or the blue wire, he'll start to cut one, then wipe his brow, cut the other, and save the day.


everyone knows the wires on Galactica are Green and Yellow


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

They don't even use wires. Wires can be hacked into by cylons.


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## ReenieS (Sep 30, 2002)

TiVo Bum said:


> Was it my imagination or did it appear that the oxygen looked like it was venting "into" the room where Heard was when it should've been leaking out into space?


I was thinking the same thing. I'm not sure that I was following what he was trying to do, anyhow??? He was turning the valves until they changed color, but I didn't understand why he was losing oxygen???


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

ReenieS said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I'm not sure that I was following what he was trying to do, anyhow??? He was turning the valves until they changed color, but I didn't understand why he was losing oxygen???


I thought the coolant was leaking into the room.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I thought there was an oxygen leak somewhere else.


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

Hey did anyone notice the on the Pegasus there was a Colonial Logo with BSG on the bottom of it? I assumed that it stood for Battle Star Galactica


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## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

Not being a military buff, the ranks issue has never bothered me. Hell, they could promote someone to "Chief Petty Marshall Air Group Commander" and it wouldn't make any difference to me.

I never did understand how a rookie officer could boss around a seasoned enlisted (I'm kinda surprised that I actually know there are two different carreer paths )


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## chewbaccad (Feb 16, 2005)

ihatecable said:


> Hey did anyone notice the on the Pegasus there was a Colonial Logo with BSG on the bottom of it? I assumed that it stood for Battle Star Galactica


Battle Star Group maybe? Like a Carrier group?


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## RoundBoy (Feb 10, 2005)

The ranks are combined because the personel are combined.

Think back to the "space: above & beyond" series... the marines were marines, but they were also pilots.

It makes sense to combine air force (flying) with navy (large capital ships) with infantry (the fot pounders) into one generic army structure.

Oh, and also the fact that it is a _seperate galaxy of planets_ helps too.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

RoundBoy said:


> Oh, and also the fact that it is a _seperate galaxy of planets_ helps too.


A separate galaxy? Really?!? I guess the journey to Earth is going to take a long, long time...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

What exactly constitutes a "galaxy of planets," anyway? Most of the galaxies I've met are galaxies of stars...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What exactly constitutes a "galaxy of planets," anyway? Most of the galaxies I've met are galaxies of stars...


You've "met" galaxies?


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

ihatecable said:


> Hey did anyone notice the on the Pegasus there was a Colonial Logo with BSG on the bottom of it? I assumed that it stood for Battle Star Galactica





chewbaccad said:


> Battle Star Group maybe? Like a Carrier group?


I've done some searching and there seems to be a rumor floating around that the "G" in "BSG" was a typo and that it was supposed to be just "BS" which was to stand for BattleStar of course. In one thread where this theory was discussed sombody had a link which was supposed to be for an image of the Galactica itself having "BS-75" on it. Unfortunately the link was out of date and dead...


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## dylking (Jul 20, 2003)

re: BS-75...I found a link to surviving pictures...

http://www.syfyportal.com/forums/vi...ghlight=&sid=7565e07d7bf3a5dc44bd1341959cebd0


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

The Galactica itself would/could be BS-75, part of BSG-75 (the Galactica Battlestar Group).

In the real Navy, Carrier Strike Groups are formed on a more ad-hoc basis, but are identified by the name of the lead carrier (e.g. the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group). Presumably for either backstory simplicity or Colonial purposes, BSGs are more permanent.

Another interesting contrast: Unlike a modern carrier, which has limited offensive and defenseive capabilities, a Battlestar and its fighters are essentially a self-sufficient combat platform, which may reduce the need for escort ships like contemporary Aegis cruisers--so it's unclear what a BSG would normally consist of in addition to a Battlestar (perhaps a few supply ships--although Pegasus didn't seem to be using any either). The Cylons similarly don't seem to use escort ships either, at least from what we've seen so far.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

Unrelated question: The nuclear attack was on Caprica. If there were 12 tribes (and the supposed 13th to earth), does that mean there are 11 other planets? Did they get attacked too? Wouldn't the fleet go to those planets for survivors? Or did they all manage to find galactica?

The attention was focused on Caprica, so that's why I ask.

-Mike


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

All the planets were attacked. In the mini, they kept getting reports of more and more destruction on the various planets.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

That's one hell of a star system that can sustain 12 habitable planets.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> That's one hell of a star system that can sustain 12 habitable planets.


They don't necessarily have to be in the same star system...


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> They don't necessarily have to be in the same star system...


Good point. With their FTL drives even a neighboring star system would be accessible. Nothing to see here... move along...


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

marrone said:


> The attention was focused on Caprica, so that's why I ask.


I always had the impression that Caprica was the center of the government. In TOS, that's where the peace treaty was supposed to be signed. Adama took Galactica back there for that (and because his family was there). I believe at that point he rounded up all the ships that escaped from the other planets to form the fleet (I remember Lorne Green's voiceover ... "every man, woman, and child ... on any ship that can carry them.").


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but Ron Moore's podcast for this episode is finally up. The one for tonight's episode is up as well.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

I just searched this thread for the word "upside" but couldn't find it. What the hell was up with a few shots being shown upside down?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

I totally forgot about that. It looked like the Vipers were coming in and landing on the ceiling of the landing bay. At the time I figured that they were all coming in at once so some needed to use magnetic gear to land on top ... but that really makes no sense upon further reflection.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

windracer said:


> I totally forgot about that. It looked like the Vipers were coming in and landing on the ceiling of the landing bay. At the time I figured that they were all coming in at once so some needed to use magnetic gear to land on top ... but that really makes no sense upon further reflection.


Nope, not at all. I liked the one shot of Starbuck looking over her shoulder upside down. That helped to relay the sense that in space there is no "upside down." But then they continued it for (I think) 2 more shots, one of which was Starbuck's viper skidding in for a landing. Since there's gravity on the landing decks, it came off as an error.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Nope, not at all. I liked the one shot of Starbuck looking over her shoulder upside down. That helped to relay the sense that in space there is no "upside down." But then they continued it for (I think) 2 more shots, one of which was Starbuck's viper skidding in for a landing. Since there's gravity on the landing decks, it came off as an error.


But it's *artificial* gravity, which means they can have it point whichever way they please (given properly positioned generators). It's not unimaginable that they'd have gravity generators on both surfaces, both to double the effective docking space and to provide redundancy in case one side (top/bottom) of the bay is damaged...


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> But it's *artificial* gravity, which means they can have it point whichever way they please (given properly positioned generators). It's not unimaginable that they'd have gravity generators on both surfaces, both to double the effective docking space and to provide redundancy in case one side (top/bottom) of the bay is damaged...


True, but that needs to be established before throwing it at you like they did. They would need a shot of a regular landing, then tilt the camera up to show a roof landing.

I think they maybe wanted to have an artsy shot of Starbuck over her shoulder, but then forgot to turn off the inversion for a few more seconds.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I just searched this thread for the word "upside" but couldn't find it. What the hell was up with a few shots being shown upside down?





IndyJones1023 said:


> True, but that needs to be established before throwing it at you like they did. They would need a shot of a regular landing, then tilt the camera up to show a roof landing.
> 
> I think they maybe wanted to have an artsy shot of Starbuck over her shoulder, but then forgot to turn off the inversion for a few more seconds.


You're forgetting that one of the first things Apollo did when taking command was to order the Pegasus to be rotated and have Starbuck cover their dorsal (I think they said topside but dorsal is the correct term) as they had taken too much damage there.

So technically, Starbuck was flying into the landing bay upside down, relative to the camera. (Not that it makes a huge amount of difference in space.)

And for those complaining about the ranks, that's how they were in the original Battlestar Galactica series.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Dang right I forgot - that was over four years ago!!! Holy thread resurrection for a meaningless comment. Wow.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

JLucPicard said:


> Dang right I forgot - that was over four years ago!!! Holy thread resurrection for a meaningless comment. Wow.


Indy had a question that wasn't answered. 
I answered it

What's the problem?


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

Lol, I think he'd gotten over having that question not answered by now.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tangent said:


> Lol, I think he'd gotten over having that question not answered by now.


After four and a half years, he probably doesn't even remember what the question was about!


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> After four and a half years, he probably doesn't even remember what the question was about!


To be honest, I'm working my way through BSG on DVD now and I finished the Captain's Hand late last night.

I was reading this thread to see what people thought and answered the question without thinking.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> To be honest, I'm working my way through BSG on DVD now and I finished the Captain's Hand late last night.
> 
> I was reading this thread to see what people thought and answered the question without thinking.


Kinda taking time-shifting to new extremes there, buddy...


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Kinda taking time-shifting to new extremes there, buddy...


Does it still count as a spoiler if we reveal the ending?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Kinda taking time-shifting to new extremes there, buddy...





Worf said:


> Does it still count as a spoiler if we reveal the ending?


Please don't.

When BSG originally on Sci Fi, I would have had to pay Adelphia/Time Warner a lot more money to get it.

So I started buying BSG on DVD but got sidetracked by real life.
Now that I have some time, I'm watching now.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Heh, this thread resurrection is better than those new (created in 2009 or 2010) B5 threads w/OADs in the 1990s AND spoiler tags.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Worf said:


> Does it still count as a spoiler if we reveal the ending?


Personally, I consider


Spoiler



the ending itself to be a spoiler, in that it spoiled what little value the show had left by that time.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, I never watched it during its run, but I got the complete series set when it came out (the one with the Cylon). Was good until the last season or so.

At least though, I could say I ate at that restaurant on Caprica, I worked at that building, etc. (And apparently, I drop off at West Caprica City station. Funny how they didn't change the ads).


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