# TivoOpsMgr - Can we still get lifetime by 4-15 or not?



## TechDreamer

I have seen many posts stating people are being refused lifetime over the phone. I thought I would call Tivo myself and try to get lifetime on my unsubbed Series 2 and I was denied. I was told there is no way you can still get lifetime. Please give us an update on Tivo's policy.


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## jfh3

TechDreamer said:


> I have seen many posts stating people are being refused lifetime over the phone. I thought I would call Tivo myself and try to get lifetime on my unsubbed Series 2 and I was denied. I was told there is no way you can still get lifetime. Please give us an update on Tivo's policy.


How many times do you want the poor guy to post it? From the sticky:

"If you purchased your non-bundled TiVo DVR prior to 3/16/06, you'll have until 4/15/06 to call and activate Product Lifetime service on the box. This is provided there is no conflict with any other terms of your purchase (such as the requirement to activate service by 3/31 for the current 80 hour offer on tivo.com). Activating Product Lifetime Service is not available online; you must call TiVo Customer Support (1-877-367-8486) in order to activate Product Lifetime service. Boxes purchased on or after 3/16/06 will not be eligible to activate Product Lifetime service. After 4/15/06, this option is no longer available."

Pretty clear - if you bought the box before 3/16, act before 4/16. After that, only two ways to get lifetime:

1) Use a Product Lifetime Gift card on a previously unactivated box
2) Buy Humax Tivo box w/ DVD recorder and then call Tivo.


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## HDTiVo

jfh3 said:


> How many times do you want the poor guy to post it?


He's posted enough. Someone needs to fix the problem.

It would be interesting if someone called 10 times and saw how many denials they got. I'm too lazy.


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## dgh

Which is a customer supposed to believe: the web sticky saying yes, or the CSR on the phone saying no.

Will there be an additional later cutoff that only applies to people told "no" before the previous cutoff?


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## timckelley

dgh said:


> Which is a customer supposed to believe: the web sticky saying yes, or the CSR on the phone saying no.
> 
> Will there be an additional later cutoff that only applies to people told "no" before the previous cutoff?


You actually bring up a good point. People in good faith acted on this promise and called before 4-16 and were denied. Some people even persisted and escalated and were still denied. When the smoke clears and TiVo finally admits these people can upgrade, but now it's past 4-16, should these people who did call before 4-16 be further prevented from upgrading?


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## TechDreamer

Yes the sticky states you can still get lifetime, but apparently no one at Tivo knows this. I now see that TivoOpsMgr has responded in some posts that the CSR's are incorrect. He states that they were supposed to know about the 4-15 policy. So how are we supposed to get Lifetime when the CSR's will not allow it?


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## timckelley

TechDreamer said:


> Yes the sticky states you can still get lifetime, but apparently no one at Tivo knows this. I now see that TivoOpsMgr has responded in some posts that the CSR's are incorrect. He states that they were supposed to know about the 4-15 policy. So how are we supposed to get Lifetime when the CSR's will not allow it?


Actually, I've read a neat trick some have used is to ask to speak to somebody about canceling your service. It seems that these cancellation CSRs know the correct rules.


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## HDTiVo

I read in another thread that you can get your Lifetime service from Replay, but service ends on 1/1/2009.

Did I get that wrong?



JUST KIDDING


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## dtreese

Does that mean that Replay has hits out on all its customers?


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## tonyonlinux

I wish TivoOpsMgr would post a reply to this. Or give us a number so we can contact him and he do it since apparently he is the only one that works for Tivo (that I know of) that knows of the 4-15 policy. I would like to get my box upgraded before the deadline if I can. I was waiting for my rebate to come the reason I held off I was gonna use the 150 to pay for the lifetime but it seems I got the short end of the stick


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## rehlerd

I called yesterday and tried to buy lifetime for an S2 I bought used a couple of months ago, and was told no way no how can I upgrade that unit after 3/16. This unit has been subbed as monthly for just over one month. I also purchased a brand new S2 at best buy yesterday and attempted to activate it with lifetime. No problem on the brand new box, however I had to sub it as monthly for now until my waiver is approved. I was told that nobody but the main offfice can approve a waiver, so it cannot be done instantly. I needed to call back if the status does not change to lifetime in the next week or so. Both answers were from the same tech. So apparently there is an additional condition that only brand new boxes can be upgraded to lifetime after 3/16.


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## coolbreeze

rehlerd said:


> I called yesterday and tried to buy lifetime for an S2 I bought used a couple of months ago, and was told no way no how can I upgrade that unit after 3/16. This unit has been subbed as monthly for just over one month. I also purchased a brand new S2 at best buy yesterday and attempted to activate it with lifetime. No problem on the brand new box, however I had to sub it as monthly for now until my waiver is approved. I was told that nobody but the main offfice can approve a waiver, so it cannot be done instantly. I needed to call back if the status does not change to lifetime in the next week or so. Both answers were from the same tech. So apparently there is an additional condition that only brand new boxes can be upgraded to lifetime after 3/16.


Wow, if they are being that strict several days past the lifetime deadline, this makes me think they will "rethink" the gift card loophole for the S3's (despite what has been posted here by employees...corporations can change their direction on a whim).

Just saying. I'm glad I got in on the lifetime last week!


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## JoEbY

I think a lot of people here don't seem to realize that the grace period for lifetime service only applies to boxes that were bought before 3/16/06 and were NOT activated previously! You can't use this grace period to upgrade an old box you have been using or one you bought second-hand from someone else.


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## Stylin

JoEbY said:


> I think a lot of people here don't seem to realize that *the grace period for lifetime service only applies to boxes that were bought before 3/16/06 and were NOT activated previously! * You can't use this grace period to upgrade an old box you have been using or one you bought second-hand from someone else.


Exactly. If you are activating a box with no previous subscription, then you have until 4/15, otherwise you are SOL.


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## dtreese

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> If you purchased your non-bundled TiVo DVR prior to 3/16/06, you'll have until 4/15/06 to call and activate Product Lifetime service on the box. This is provided there is no conflict with any other terms of your purchase (such as the requirement to activate service by 3/31 for the current 80 hour offer on tivo.com). Activating Product Lifetime Service is not available online; you must call TiVo Customer Support (1-877-367-8486) in order to activate Product Lifetime service. Boxes purchased on or after 3/16/06 will not be eligible to activate Product Lifetime service. After 4/15/06, this option is no longer available.


I see nothing in this to indicate that you can't activate lifetime on an activated unit, given that it's non-bundled. Just my take.


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## OldTownTreadles

HDTiVo said:


> He's posted enough. Someone needs to fix the problem.
> 
> It would be interesting if someone called 10 times and saw how many denials they got. I'm too lazy.


What would be interesting is if someone called the Tivo corporate offices about this.
Corporate Contact
(not Customer Support)
Phone: (408) 519-9100
Fax: (408) 519-5330


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## TechDreamer

JoEbY said:


> I think a lot of people here don't seem to realize that the grace period for lifetime service only applies to boxes that were bought before 3/16/06 and were NOT activated previously! You can't use this grace period to upgrade an old box you have been using or one you bought second-hand from someone else.


This is NOT correct. There was no stipulation that the box had to be unsubbed or unactivated. I think Tivo's policies are changing daily and that TivoOpsMgr is afraid to tell us what is really going on. It is disgusting that the biggest price changes and policy changes in the history of Tivo are being handled in this manner. I am once again asking TivoOpsMgr to tell us what is really going on at Tivo.


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## timckelley

It sounds like we have a crisis on our hands.

I normally spend most of my TCF time at Happy Hour, but just coincidentially just happened to peep in over here about a day after the press release of the no lifetime. I'm EXTREMELY GLAD I was here when I was, because I went ahead and lifetimed my already active TiVo while I still could.

I feel like one of the Titanic survivors who actually made it to a lifeboat before the ship sank. (Or should I call it 'lifetime boat'?)


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## tonyonlinux

Has tivoOpsMgr posted an update on this? Hopefully we get an answer from him before 4/15/06.


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## steveliv

i feel the same way about your titanic reference  , i bought a tivo box the same day the new pricing structure was announced and lifetime subbed it 4 days later on 3/14... and just yesterday sold my replaytv on ebay for $300 which recouped the tivo lifetime fee...

steven


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## TiVoPony

We appreciate the feedback and apologize if some of our agents are providing inaccurate information. 

We know that there have been retail advertisements which refer to product lifetime, and there have been requests here for a longer opportunity to purchase lifetime before it's discontinued. As a result, we have decided to offer product lifetime as a subscription option through 4/15/06, even for those that have purchased since 3/15 (you do have to call to activate lifetime service though, and lifetime is not applicable for systems purchased via a bundle plan). 

Our customer service team is being updated today, so please wait until later today or tomorrow and call back once the message has been delivered to all the agents.

Cheers,
Pony


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## Toeside

TiVoPony said:


> We appreciate the feedback and apologize if some of our agents are providing inaccurate information.
> 
> We know that there have been retail advertisements which refer to product lifetime, and there have been requests here for a longer opportunity to purchase lifetime before it's discontinued. As a result, we have decided to offer product lifetime as a subscription option through 4/15/06, even for those that have purchased since 3/15 (you do have to call to activate lifetime service though, and lifetime is not applicable for systems purchased via a bundle plan).
> 
> Our customer service team is being updated today, so please wait until later today or tomorrow and call back once the message has been delivered to all the agents.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


Pony,

Does this also mean if I buy one of the Refurbs on TiVo.com I can upgrade the 1 year prepaid service to Lifetime?


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## ZeoTiVo

TiVoPony said:


> We appreciate the feedback and apologize if some of our agents are providing inaccurate information.
> 
> We know that there have been retail advertisements which refer to product lifetime, and there have been requests here for a longer opportunity to purchase lifetime before it's discontinued. As a result, we have decided to offer product lifetime as a subscription option through 4/15/06, even for those that have purchased since 3/15 (you do have to call to activate lifetime service though, and lifetime is not applicable for systems purchased via a bundle plan).
> 
> Our customer service team is being updated today, so please wait until later today or tomorrow and call back once the message has been delivered to all the agents.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


Thanks for looking into this and getting everyone on the same page. I had my Dad's to Lifetime (he hemmed and hawed a little bit  ) and was hoping the clarity would come in a few days so was holding off calling. Looks like later this week will be a good time to call :up:


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## Stylin

Hi Pony,
Thanks for the update and extension. A very large gripe that seems to continually resurface is current subscribers not being notified about the change of service. The sentiment is if a company "cares for it's customers they will notify them of such a change in service". Will you be sending a message via the Tivo screen notifying your customers of the impending change -4/15/06 cutoff?


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## Xab

Hi Pony,

Thank you so much for clarifying this. I have been trying to call and get Lifetime activated pursuant to TiVoOpsMgr's original message. I had to wait until 3/17 so that I could get my paycheck from work, and over the phone they first assured me I could get it, then today told me I could not. Hopefully later today when I try they will have the correct information.


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## rawle42

TiVoPony said:


> We appreciate the feedback and apologize if some of our agents are providing inaccurate information.
> 
> We know that there have been retail advertisements which refer to product lifetime, and there have been requests here for a longer opportunity to purchase lifetime before it's discontinued. As a result, we have decided to offer product lifetime as a subscription option through 4/15/06, even for those that have purchased since 3/15 (you do have to call to activate lifetime service though, and lifetime is not applicable for systems purchased via a bundle plan).
> 
> Our customer service team is being updated today, so please wait until later today or tomorrow and call back once the message has been delivered to all the agents.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


So this being said, will I have until 4/15/06 to upgrade both:

1) An existing S2, currently on a monthly subscription, but wanting to upgrade to lifetime?

2) An unbundled Tivo, purchased today, wanting the lifetime subscription?

Thanks,
rawle42


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## tfederov

Stylin said:


> Hi Pony,
> Thanks for the update and extension. A very large gripe that seems to continually resurface is current subscribers not being notified about the change of service. cares for your customers to notify them of such a change in service. Will you be sending a message via the Tivo screen notifying your customers of the impending change -4/15/06 cutoff?


That might be a good idea. Thanks to this board, I was able to call my Dad and have him upgrade to lifetime. He doesn't read the boards and had no idea (I told him after the year I bought for him he could get lifetime) that this was coming.


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## Stylin

IMO, That's the rub right there. I think it's unfair for a company to expect it's customers to be a part of a forum or read tech news/press releases in order to be informed of major changes. Given the extension, it would be the perfect time to send a message to everyone's TiVo.


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## dgh

Stylin said:


> IMO, That's the rub right there. I think it's unfair for a company to expect it's customers to be a part of a forum or read tech news/press releases in order to be informed of major changes. Given the extension, it would be the perfect time to send a message to everyone's TiVo.


TiVo employees frequently remind us that we're a tiny non-representative fraction of the TiVo-owning community, so I guess the question is, do they only want that tiny non-representative fraction to know. I could go either way on my assumption to the answer on that one.


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## TiVoPony

Toeside said:


> Pony,
> 
> Does this also mean if I buy one of the Refurbs on TiVo.com I can upgrade the 1 year prepaid service to Lifetime?


Yes. Any boxes except those purchased via a bundle plan.

Pony


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## garynfla

I just got off the phone with TIVO and they said they had heard nothing of any Lifetime options.. I sure would like to get this done and buy my TIVO..

Fingers crossed
Gary


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## NewYorkLaw

Does anyone really think the average (non-forum subscribing) member of the tivo community would be all that upset to learn their ability to upgrade to lifetime was lost? I suspect most people who were interested in lifetime subscriptions already have it. Some of us, becasue we got an advance warning, went out and upgraded or bought new machines and applied lifetimes in time. 

What's unfair about that? I think we were lucky to get the advance warning! Why should tivo have to send notices to anyone, much less *every* unit?

Pete


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## dgh

Why do you consider us lucky and think the non-forum subscribers don't care?

Of course, if they don't care, then TiVo looses nothing by warning them and gains good will.


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## Stylin

NewYorkLaw said:


> Does anyone really think the average (non-forum subscribing) member of the tivo community would be all that upset to learn their ability to upgrade to lifetime was lost? I suspect most people who were interested in lifetime subscriptions already have it. Some of us, becasue we got an advance, warning went out and upgraded or bought new machines and applied lifetimes in time.
> 
> What's unfair about that? I think we were lucky to get the advance warning! Why should tivo have to send notices to anyone, much less *every* unit?
> 
> Pete


Lucky?? But to consider current subscribers "lucky" to hear about a major pricing policy change is poor service. 
Whether current subscribers are interested, would be potentially upset etc. is really not the point. Customers should be informed of any major policy changes. Also, keep in mind that many 1 yr or less subscribers were told they would have the option to upgrade to lifetime.

I was "lucky" as I was not a current TiVo subscriber, and was able to make a purchase before the cutoff date.


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## timckelley

I haven't been home today. Are there any messages on anybody's TiVo's informing them of this major policy/pricing change?


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## dcler

I am totally new to TIVO, so would like to get a confirmation from you.
Could I just buy one of the TIVO box from place like Compusa, and call up TIVO customer support to get lifetime, for free? Thanks


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## jfh3

dcler said:


> I am totally new to TIVO, so would like to get a confirmation from you.
> Could I just buy one of the TIVO box from place like Compusa, and call up TIVO customer support to get lifetime, for free? Thanks


Can you get lifetime on a new box? Yes, until 4/15. 
For free? Sure, if you consider letting Tivo charge your credit card $299 "free".


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## ckelly33

Someone mentioned here buying a Lifetime gift card. Can you still do that?


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## dgh

Define "can". Stores were supposed to have pulled them off the shelves but some didn't. Most of the ones that didn't have probably been picked over pretty well by now but give it a shot! 

There are also a bunch on ebay at well over retail - but maybe still a relative bargain.


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## filburt1

ckelly33 said:


> Someone mentioned here buying a Lifetime gift card. Can you still do that?


Technically, yes, but you won't find a single Best Buy in your entire state that has them. Literally.


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## jfh3

filburt1 said:


> Technically, yes, but you won't find a single Best Buy in your entire state that has them. Literally.


And odds are that any stray cards that were at regional warehouses or in stores have been pulled from active stock this week.


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## filburt1

Well, here's hoping part of that is not correct. Wink wink.

But yes, there is a 99% chance they won't have them, especially this late in the game. Not only did they have low stock levels to begin with, but they've been instructed to pull them, or so the legends go.


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## jfh3

ckelly33 said:


> Someone mentioned here buying a Lifetime gift card. Can you still do that?


But since you can get lifetime on an existing Series 2 until 4/15, I wouldn't use a lifetime gift card on anything other than a Series 3 box ...


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## hi-nrg-joe

NewYorkLaw said:


> I suspect most people who were interested in lifetime subscriptions already have it. Some of us, becasue we got an advance, warning went out and upgraded or bought new machines and applied lifetimes in time.
> 
> What's unfair about that? I think we were lucky to get the advance warning! Why should tivo have to send notices to anyone, much less *every* unit?
> 
> Pete


Exactly....... :up:


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## infiniti310

since I got in by the March 15th scare....(Lifetime Subscriptions are going away)...will my Lifetime subscription be extended to say,....Lifetime, Plus a Month?

Is the "DEADLINE" going to be 'extended' again?

Feeling duped like Oprah here... 

When is the scambo going to end?


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## NewYorkLaw

infiniti310 said:


> since I got in by the March 15th scare....(Lifetime Subscriptions are going away)...will my Lifetime subscription be extended to say,....Lifetime, Plus a Month?...


Lifetime plus a month, but only if you were a current Tivo customer at the time of the first notice and your qualifying tivo device was in use at the time, and provided you notify tivo of your intent to utilize that month at least a month before the unit stops working. 
 
Pete


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## gulfstrum

From reading this thread I thought that I could still purchase a new box and get lifetime until 4/15?????

Called Tivo three times and spoke to a supervisor- they said only boxes purchased prior to 3/15 are eligible. 

What is the real story?


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## classicsat

Existing Lifetime subs should stay that way. Only the option to purchase Lifetime is going away, and as it seems, they extended that a month.


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## gulfstrum

classicsat said:


> Existing Lifetime subs should stay that way. Only the option to purchase Lifetime is going away, and as it seems, they extended that a month.


They confirmed that they extended it a month - however they say you must have purchased the retail box before 3/15 to get the lifetime.


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## HDTiVo

NewYorkLaw said:


> Lifetime plus a month, but only if you were a current Tivo customer at the time of the first notice and your qualifying tivo device was in use at the time, and provided you notify tivo of your intent to utilize that month at least a month before the unit stops working.
> 
> Pete


Can we get Title Insurance on our Lifetime units?


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## HDTiVo

gulfstrum said:


> They confirmed that they extended it a month - however they say you must have purchased the retail box before 3/15 to get the lifetime.


Where are the Banghead and Puke emoticons when you need 'em.


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## TiVoStephen

Hi gulfstrum, I'm sorry you're still having difficulty.

All agents should now be trained on the policy. Here is the relevant portion of the Knowledge Base article:



> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> KB code 39-10-08 (for current monthly customers who want to switch to Product Lifetime):
> 
> Product Lifetime Service is no longer available after March 17, 2006. We will allow current monthly subscribers to change their Payment Plan to Product Lifetime Service until April 15, 2006.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> KB code 39-10-05 (for new customers):
> 
> Product Lifetime Service is no longer available beginning March 17, 2006. [...]
> 
> Customers wanting to purchase Product Lifetime Service can do so before April 15, 2006. Use the procedure below to activate Product Lifetime Service.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you have any trouble, please have the agent reference these articles, or ask to speak to a supervisor.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## gulfstrum

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Hi gulfstrum, I'm sorry you're still having difficulty.
> 
> All agents should now be trained on the policy. Here is the relevant portion of the Knowledge Base article:
> 
> If you have any trouble, please have the agent reference these articles, or ask to speak to a supervisor.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stephen


So I can purchase a Series 2 Tivo today at Compusa - refer to KB article 39-10-05 and get lifetime service? I did ask to speak to a supervisor and was informed I couldn't. I will give it a try and thanks!


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## Sirshagg

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> If you have any trouble, please have the agent reference these articles, or ask to speak to a supervisor.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stephen


Cool. Hit em with their own KB article - yep, that ought to do it.


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## Luv2BeLDS97

TiVoPony said:


> We appreciate the feedback and apologize if some of our agents are providing inaccurate information.
> 
> We know that there have been retail advertisements which refer to product lifetime, and there have been requests here for a longer opportunity to purchase lifetime before it's discontinued. As a result, we have decided to offer product lifetime as a subscription option through 4/15/06, even for those that have purchased since 3/15 (you do have to call to activate lifetime service though, and lifetime is not applicable for systems purchased via a bundle plan).
> 
> Our customer service team is being updated today, so please wait until later today or tomorrow and call back once the message has been delivered to all the agents.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


PERFECT!! See this is the kind of thing that makes me stay with TiVo.. now I just need to get paid  And when the Series 3 box comes out... I will buy that and I will be set!


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## dcler

Ok. I called TIVO customer support and got the answer: you can buy a TIVO box like the series 2 from a retail store for whatever it cost there and activate TIVO life time before 4/15 for an activation fee of $299. You could get $150 rebate on the box with activation. Please reply if you got a different result.


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## gulfstrum

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Hi gulfstrum, I'm sorry you're still having difficulty.
> 
> All agents should now be trained on the policy. Here is the relevant portion of the Knowledge Base article:
> 
> If you have any trouble, please have the agent reference these articles, or ask to speak to a supervisor.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stephen


I finally have everything straight - *Thanks so much Stephen * - I called and the representative said they had all been updated and all is good.


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## timckelley

> KB code 39-10-05 (for new customers):
> 
> Product Lifetime Service is no longer available beginning March 17, 2006. [...]
> 
> Customers wanting to purchase Product Lifetime Service can do so before April 15, 2006. Use the procedure below to activate Product Lifetime Service.


This sounds sort of conflicting. On the one had it said you can't get it on or after 3-17-2006. But then it goes on to say you can get it as late as 4-14-2006. I wish it was worded more clearly.


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## tony2tru

I've always put off a second Tivo box in the bedroom. But now I'm going to pick up the 80-hour this week as my primary box in the living room (since they extended lifetime) and have the old 40 hour box in the bedroom as a second box. I've had my box for 3 years and have fears of it going bad on me!!!

I'm glad they got this all resolved!

Tony


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## FTLOSM

Ok what am I doing wrong (or maybe I don't understand), I have a series 1 with lifetime love it, Nov 04 I bought a Series 2 Humax with dvd recorder, put it on as secondary box month to month (wasn't sure if i would like the series 2 or dvd burner).

Ok ready to upgrade the series 2 unit to lifetime, called was told I can't because "That option has expired for me on this unit."

Can someone explain how this works then? When I bought that series 2 box and did monthly I didn't get any special rebates or join in on any "plan" where you pay a years worth to get a discount or anything, I just straight walked in and bought it, as for "bundles"you guys speak of here, I don't even know what that would be unless you mean tivo with dvd burner??? But when I bought it I didn't buy any other piece of equipment if that is what Bundle means...

Am I understanding this thread correctly that I should still be able to pay for lifetime on my series 2 humax dvd burner tivo if i call in before 4-15 and pay $299?

If so give me the name and number of the operator who knows what they are talking about cuz the girl I talked to was VERY snippy saying that option had expired for me.

I don't want to seem like a totaly Jerko for calling back and fighting on this, heck it could be me misunderstanding something - just looking for clarification....


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## HDTiVo

FTLOSM said:


> Am I understanding this thread correctly that I should still be able to pay for lifetime on my series 2 *humax dvd burner* tivo if i call in before 4-15 and pay $299?


If I understand the _latest _ version of the "_rules_," you will actually always be elligible to upgrade to Lifetime.


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## timckelley

sounds like your woman didn't know what she was talking about.

a) you have until 4-15
b) your humax means you have until forever.


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## JPA2825

Maybe this is discussed elsewhere, but why would I want to pay $299 for lifetime before 4.15.06 on 2 S2 140s where I already have the MSD of $6.95/mo.? 

I understand it is an economic choice, but help me work through it so I don't miss something. 

If my S2 140 craps out (lightning, HDD failure, etc.) or if I decide to upgrade to S3, I stop paying my $6.95/mo., use the S2 as a doorstop and move on. If it happens and I'm on lifetime, I get weaknees or someone else to fix it, but if I upgrade to S3, I just put it on a 4th TV or sell on eBay, right?


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## TiVoPony

HDTiVo said:


> If I understand the _latest _ version of the "_rules_," you will actually always be elligible to upgrade to Lifetime.


Not quite the case. After 4/15 only Humax DVD Recorders that have no activation history will be eligible for Product Lifetime activation. If this unit has been activated previously, the 4/15 cutoff applies.

Pony


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## TechDreamer

You have until 4-15 to get Lifetime on the Humax because it has been subbed before. You could get Lifetime on a Humax PAST 4-15 if it had never been subbed. The CSR was wrong and you should call back and get your Lifetime. The sticky post from TivoOpsMgr covers the details on the Humax variation of Lifetime.


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## dgh

JPA2825 said:


> I understand it is an economic choice, but help me work through it so I don't miss something.


I think you have it. If the future of your TiVo is to be a doorstop or exploded (quite soon), then MSD is better. if the future of your TiVo is to remain in use, or be sold, then lifetime wins. Historically lifetime works out to somewhere between negative 20 cents a month to $1.30 a month depending on the average ebay auction price at the time you sell. At worst, if my TiVo were to explode today and have absolutely zero value, lifetime would have cost me well under half of the MSD rate.


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## timckelley

dgh said:


> I think you have it. If the future of your TiVo is to be a doorstop or exploded (quite soon), then MSD is better. if the future of your TiVo is to remain in use, or be sold, then lifetime wins. Historically lifetime works out to somewhere between negative 20 cents a month to $1.30 a month depending on the average ebay auction price at the time you sell. At worst, if my TiVo were to explode today and have absolutely zero value, lifetime would have cost me well under half of the MSD rate.


Also, in my case, I know how to repair a bad HD if needed, and so I wouldn't have to farm it out to weaknees. Remember the breakeven point for lifetime, even if you have MSD is 43 months, and this assumed you'll get $0 down the road if you sell it, which is by no means an automatically accurate assumption.

Regardless, I think I stand a good chance of getting 43 months of use out of my TiVo, so I think lifetime makes sense for me.


----------



## HDTiVo

TiVoPony said:


> Not quite the case. After 4/15 only Humax DVD Recorders that have no activation history will be eligible for Product Lifetime activation. If this unit has been activated previously, the 4/15 cutoff applies.
> 
> Pony


OK, reading that section again very carefully, top to bottom, it looks like even a Humax DVDR bought from TiVo, Inc. is considered bundled and not eligible for Lifetime. So *only new, never activated, Humax DVDRs bought at retail or elsewhere can get Lifetime, and then only at initial activation*. Yes?


----------



## timckelley

Well until 4-15, I think all unbundled TiVos can be upgraded to lifetime, even if they're currently on monthly. But if, as you say, the humax DVD bought from TiVo is considered bundled, then it sounds ineligible.


----------



## spyboy

One reason I have not gotten a Tivo is because they do not have HD recording yet. I am guessing S3 will record HD. How much can I expect to pay for an HD Tivo?

Thanks


----------



## FTLOSM

In reading this entire thread I didn't understand the term bundled, I guess it means when you have more than one product within another product like my humax which is a tivo but also includes a dvd burner? I sorta thought bundled was like buying one of those buy it with this or that and or with the terms of 2 yrs service and get a special price on the tivo part inside of it ....

I don't get why I can't upgrade this to lifetime, its a tivo its not like they have to pay anything to fix it if it breaks, its out of warranty so any cost to fix that dvd burner etc would be MINE, its not like im asking for a warranty or anything just the lifetime sub on it.....

Might have wife call and ask again im too ticked about it i know ill get snippy too fast on the phone shes better at that stuff but i doubt her answer will be any different than mine was...


----------



## HDTiVo

FTLOSM said:


> In reading this entire thread I didn't understand the term bundled, I guess it means when you have more than one product within another product like my humax which is a tivo but also includes a dvd burner? I sorta thought bundled was like buying one of those buy it with this or that and or with the terms of 2 yrs service and get a special price on the tivo part inside of it ....
> 
> I don't get why I can't upgrade this to lifetime, its a tivo its not like they have to pay anything to fix it if it breaks, its out of warranty so any cost to fix that dvd burner etc would be MINE, its not like im asking for a warranty or anything just the lifetime sub on it.....
> 
> Might have wife call and ask again im too ticked about it i know ill get snippy too fast on the phone shes better at that stuff but i doubt her answer will be any different than mine was...


Looks like TiVo did an awesome job of making it all so much simpler for the folks. :down:


----------



## Troy J B

FTLOSM said:


> In reading this entire thread I didn't understand the term bundled, I guess it means when you have more than one product within another product like my humax which is a tivo but also includes a dvd burner? I sorta thought bundled was like buying one of those buy it with this or that and or with the terms of 2 yrs service and get a special price on the tivo part inside of it ....


from the sticky thread at the top of the forum titled "Summary of TiVo's new pricing announcements" http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290723

"Bundled pricing: Starting Monday March 13, if you buy a new unit from TiVo.com, you can take advantage of the new bundled pricing, which combines the TiVo service with a new 80-hr standalone Series2 DVR for a single fee."

So while a Humax may be bundled with a DVD, it is not affected by the "Bundled pricing" or the restrictions of the bundled pricing TiVo's. Bundled in this context is the combination of the hardware and TiVo service fee under one $$, versus the previous upfront hardware costs.


----------



## FTLOSM

So I should be allowed to upgrade this from monthly to lifetime, since I bought it new full price never did a deal where i pay monthly for a certain time for a reduced price or anything etc....

I will have the wife try tomorrow then... Man I am just more confused than ever on all this stuff, much less being one of the 3% who actually come here, then ontop of that calling in and being told no on a unit others here tell me IS within the terms of being able to extend to lifetime... makes me wonder why Tivo is making it so hard??

I also agree if they did extend the ability there should be a tivo message to all users saying ok there is an extension on your unit (as long as your not part of that plan where you buy tivo cheap and pay monthly fees for 2 yrs or something)....

Seems like they dont want people to do the lifetime on their units...


----------



## DClarke977

I understand the before 4/15 policy for the upgrade, but can I still trade in my rewards points to get a lifetime membership? I was banking on this and now it looks like that may not happen.


----------



## megazone

DClarke977 said:


> I understand the before 4/15 policy for the upgrade, but can I still trade in my rewards points to get a lifetime membership? I was banking on this and now it looks like that may not happen.


Lifetime was dropped as an available reward weeks ago.


----------



## Xab

I really commend TiVo for doing the right thing here in the face of some confusion following the original date. Thanks Pony & TiVoOpsMgr!


----------



## DClarke977

megazone said:


> Lifetime was dropped as an available reward weeks ago.


I understand that they dropped it from the site. I was wondering if the same applied to the purchased before 3/15, could still upgrade until 4/15 thing with the rewards points. Is this option not being allowed any more or can we call in? Please say it ain't so!


----------



## tazzftw

megazone said:


> Lifetime was dropped as an available reward weeks ago.


Well with the ability to buy it gone, they should bring it back as a reward. Think about it. We all want that lifetime option. What better reward is there for bringing in 3-6 new TiVo customer than the ability to add lifetime to a S3 TiVo?


----------



## megazone

DClarke977 said:


> I understand that they dropped it from the site. I was wondering if the same applied to the purchased before 3/15, could still upgrade until 4/15 thing with the rewards points. Is this option not being allowed any more or can we call in? Please say it ain't so!


It is no longer available as a reward, period. It was dropped well before the announcement that lifetime was going away as an option. There was a thread here about it back then too. Even when lifetime was still available for a fee it was no longer available as a reward, they were independent. (OK, I'm sure there was some relation within TiVo.)


----------



## restart88

timckelley said:


> Also, in my case, I know how to repair a bad HD if needed, and so I wouldn't have to farm it out to weaknees. Remember the breakeven point for lifetime, even if you have MSD is 43 months, and this assumed you'll get $0 down the road if you sell it, which is by no means an automatically accurate assumption.
> 
> Regardless, I think I stand a good chance of getting 43 months of use out of my TiVo, so I think lifetime makes sense for me.


OTOH, break even on a primary sub would be more like 2 years, right? The only downside I'm seeing is that new Tivos wouldn't get a MSD under certain promotional plans.


----------



## restart88

tazzftw said:


> Well with the ability to buy it gone, they should bring it back as a reward. Think about it. We all want that lifetime option. What better reward is there for bringing in 3-6 new TiVo customer than the ability to add lifetime to a S3 TiVo?


But won't Tivo make more money by not having a lifetime program?

I'm a relative newbie but looking down the road I think I see a few things. The changeover to HDTV being expensive and competition in the marketplace in a few years.

They well may need to consider some type of lifetime deal as new competitive products come out. If MS Vista works out as hoped many people will be happy enough for what comes bundled in the PC package with no monthly fees other than content.


----------



## Skypp

Hello, All...

New to the Forum, but have had a TiVo S2 since 09/05. I also bought a 2nd TiVo S2 box on March 10th. Box arrived on 03/17th and I tried to set it up with lifetime service, but I'm not getting any headway.

I've read TiVoPony's response to the lifetime service situation, but as of today (03/27/06) It seems to me that no one at Tivo Customer service is really understanding what is going on. 

I've spent a week trying to get TiVo to honor my "Grandfather'd" box, but they escalated my situation to some higher source. What's worse is that when I originally spoke to Tivo Customer Service on 03/17 they told me that my situation would be resolved before the temporary service ended on my box. Well, the temporary service HAS ended on my box, and I still don't have my permanent service activated. Today they tried to tell me that I would have to pay $6.95 to continue my service until lifetime is activated - of course, that money would be refunded once lifetime is activated. How can I trust that they will do that if I can't trust them to give me my Lifetime Service as promised?

Because of this I've started to draft a letter to everyone in my address book to warn them of the terrible customer service I've been recieving... and that MAYBE TiVo shouldn't be their only option!! GRRR!!!  I've also thought about CC'ing Tivo Corporate office the letter, but if they're anything like their Customer Service staff or supervisors I don't think it would do any good.


----------



## timckelley

Ouch!


----------



## Joeg180

TivoPony, thanks for the clarification.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Skypp, sorry that you're having trouble. Since our level one agents now no longer have the ability to activate Product Lifetime, the procedure you're being told is correct -- you activate monthly service ($6.95 in your case since you already have an existing box), and then within two to three business days, someone on a team of account specialists activates Product Lifetime and simultaneously refunds you for the first few days of service ($6.95 in your case).

I'm sorry you are having an issue, but we've applied that procedure correctly for many other cases from the forums here.

Please drop me an e-mail ([email protected]) if you need further clarification.

Best regards,
Stephen


----------



## tazzftw

restart88 said:


> But won't Tivo make more money by not having a lifetime program?
> 
> I'm a relative newbie but looking down the road I think I see a few things. The changeover to HDTV being expensive and competition in the marketplace in a few years.
> 
> They well may need to consider some type of lifetime deal as new competitive products come out. If MS Vista works out as hoped many people will be happy enough for what comes bundled in the PC package with no monthly fees other than content.


In theory\, they'll make more money without a regular lifetime service available for purchase (ignoring all the talk about customers coming and going). But I'm just saying that they should bring it back as a reward in the TiVo Rewards section. I'm sure they can handle a lifetime account here and there if this means getting a half-dozen new monthly TiVo accounts.


----------



## Joeg180

Here is what I did to activiate my account:
You can activate your service number by following these instructions:

1) Call TiVo at 1-877-FOR-TIVO. 
2) When you call, you will hear a recording asking why you are calling.
Say the word 'ACTIVATIONS.' 
3) The recording will then ask you if you purchased your DVR from TiVo
directly. Say 'NO.'
4) Then, the recording will ask if you want information about TiVo's
website. Say 'NO.'
5) The recording will ask whether your DVR was manufactured by DIRECTV,
say 'NO.'
6) You will then be transferred to a live agent, I requested a lifetime subscription, I was told that I can have a monthly for now and that it would be adjusted to Lifetime in the next 10-14 days.

It was so painless. Of course I have to see that my lifetime is actually activated. But, given the response I received on the phone I don't think it will be an issue.


:up: :up: 

I checked this afternoon and my monthly msd was changed to Lifetime.

:up: :up:


----------



## getgray

Hi guys, I'm late to the party but this seems like an urgent question. I am anxiously waiting on the Series 3. Is the Lifetime subscriptin transferable to that box? That is, if I go get a new/refurb TIVO today and in Jul-Dec I get the new S3, can I transfer my lifetime subscription to it? I really hate to miss the opportunity.

Thanks, Scott


----------



## ebf

getgray said:


> Hi guys, I'm late to the party but this seems like an urgent question. I am anxiously waiting on the Series 3. Is the Lifetime subscriptin transferable to that box? That is, if I go get a new/refurb TIVO today and in Jul-Dec I get the new S3, can I transfer my lifetime subscription to it? I really hate to miss the opportunity.
> 
> Thanks, Scott


No. Lifetime has always been tied to the box.


----------



## timckelley

getgray said:


> Hi guys, I'm late to the party but this seems like an urgent question. I am anxiously waiting on the Series 3. Is the Lifetime subscriptin transferable to that box? That is, if I go get a new/refurb TIVO today and in Jul-Dec I get the new S3, can I transfer my lifetime subscription to it? I really hate to miss the opportunity.
> 
> Thanks, Scott





ebf said:


> No. Lifetime has always been tied to the box.


That's right, and the lack of many ways to get lifetime on S3 has caused much grief here. That said, here are two ways to get lifetime on a series 3:

1) Buy a lifetime gift card now while you still can. Chances are you won't find one in Best Buy, and you may need to buy one from ebay

2) If you own a pre-January, 2000 (I think that's the date) series 1 TiVo, you can transfer lifetime from it, if you haven't already done such a transfer.


----------



## getgray

Tim:

Thanks for the excellent information. I have a pretty high end system and my sole goal is to get a HD-DVR to replace my Comcast POS HD-DVR so the normal SD unit with lifetime is of no interest to me.

I don't own a Tivo at all yet , so it dosen't look like option 2 would work for me. Is there any loophole for this option/series 1? That is, can one buy a Series 1 with lifetime (used) and then transfer that unit/subscription to themselves, then subsequently transfer that lifetime to a series 3 when it comes out? If yes, are there any details I'd need to know to watch for one on ebay, manufacture dates, lifetime signup dates, etc? 

As for the gift card, that would be my preference if I can find one. You mentioned Best Buy, were they the only place that carried the gift cards? We have them here, I can check with them. 

With the lifetime gift cards, is there no time limit on activating the card? I'd be able to wait for the S3 even if it takes until Dec for them to come out?

Finally, I couldn't find anything about the lifetime policies on the Tivo site, presumably becasue they aren't offered anymore. If the lifetime is tied to a specific box, what happens if the box dies (hit by lightning, etc?) The lifetime service dies with it?

Thanks again very much for the time to answer my noob questions.

Best, Scott


----------



## timckelley

getgray said:


> Is there any loophole for this option/series 1? That is, can one buy a Series 1 with lifetime (used) and then transfer that unit/subscription to themselves, then subsequently transfer that lifetime to a series 3 when it comes out?


I actually don't know the answer to that question. Hopefully one of the experts here will answer that one.



getgray said:


> If yes, are there any details I'd need to know to watch for one on ebay, manufacture dates, lifetime signup dates, etc?


I'd search for 'series 1 TiVo'. Right now there are only 22 of them for sale on ebay. Then read through each one to see if any have a lifetime sub on them, and if it's pre-january 2000. You might have to email the sellers to find this information out. If it were me, if I found one I thought might be eligible for the grandfather clause, I'd find out the model number and post that model number here to this forum to get confirmation as to whether this transfer will work. Of course, depending on the answer to your first question above, the answer to this question may or may not be moot.



getgray said:


> As for the gift card, that would be my preference if I can find one. You mentioned Best Buy, were they the only place that carried the gift cards? We have them here, I can check with them.


I"m actually not quite sure if Best Buy was the only place that carried them. Somebody else here will probably confirm or deny this. Best Buy has been instructed to pull them off their shelves, but people have reported finding them there anyway, especially on the wrong shelf. (Because the employees didn't know to pull them if they were on the wrong shelf.)



getgray said:


> With the lifetime gift cards, is there no time limit on activating the card? I'd be able to wait for the S3 even if it takes until Dec for them to come out?


I think the deadline to use your card is 2 years after the purchase date of the card. If you get it off of ebay, I think they go by the original purchase date that the first person purchased it on. So you'd want to confirm this purchase date from the ebay seller. Hopefully he'll have the receipt and include it with the auction.



getgray said:


> If the lifetime is tied to a specific box, what happens if the box dies (hit by lightning, etc?) The lifetime service dies with it?


If the box dies, you choices are:

1) Trash the box and lose your subscription 
2) Repair the box yourself (which is often easy to do, because the most common problem is a bad hard drive, and the hard drive is easily replaced)
3) Send the box to a dealer to have it repaired. If I'm not mistaken, if the box is so damaged that he can't repair it, then you become eligible for transfer of the lifetime to a new box. But this only works if you have an authorized dealer deal with your box.


----------



## marcush

dgh said:


> TiVo employees frequently remind us that we're a tiny non-representative fraction of the TiVo-owning community, so I guess the question is, do they only want that tiny non-representative fraction to know. I could go either way on my assumption to the answer on that one.


If that is the case then why is there any need to drop product Lifetime subscriptions. It does not cost Tivo anything to allow it if most of the revenue stream comes from monthly subscriptions and DTV license fees.


----------



## dgh

marcush said:


> If that is the case then why is there any need to drop product Lifetime subscriptions.


"we" in the text you quoted meant frequent TiVo Community forum visitors. That was stated in the context of TiVo informing "us" (on this forum) and not the other ~99.9% of TiVo customers.


----------



## gulfstrum

timckelley said:


> That's right, and the lack of many ways to get lifetime on S3 has caused much grief here. That said, here are two ways to get lifetime on a series 3:
> 
> 2) If you own a pre-January, 2000 (I think that's the date) series 1 TiVo, you can transfer lifetime from it, if you haven't already done such a transfer.


So I am new to the forum - ran out bought a series 2 and got lifetime. I have a series 1 also - that just died - I can transfer that lifetime to a new series 2 - if bought before Januaury 2000?

I am more and more confused every day - also -= how long did it take you all to show up under System Information as being a lifetime subscriber?

Thanks for all the help!


----------



## jfh3

timckelley said:


> I"m actually not quite sure if Best Buy was the only place that carried them.


Other than Tivo.com, Best Buy was the only place to buy these cards, which state that they are only valid if purchased at Best Buy. Presumably, the cards are validated at the register when purchased.


----------



## jfh3

gulfstrum said:


> So I am new to the forum - ran out bought a series 2 and got lifetime. I have a series 1 also - that just died - I can transfer that lifetime to a new series 2 - if bought before Januaury 2000?
> 
> I am more and more confused every day - also -= how long did it take you all to show up under System Information as being a lifetime subscriber?
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


If you have a Series 1 that had lifetime activated before January 2000, you can transfer it to a new Tivo box, either a Series 2 or the upcoming Series 3.

If your box is eligible for the grandfathered transfer, you may want to consider waiting until the Series 3 is released - even if you decide not to get one, a grandfathered Series 1 will almost certainly be worth more then than it is now.


----------



## rscaramelo

Can anyone point me to a link for a cheap SA that I can activate the lifetime service on? Tivo.com is obviously pushing the new program so it's nowhere to be found on tivo.com. It looks like I can go the weakknees route.

thanks,

RC


----------



## Stylin

n/m


----------



## getgray

Tim, et.al:

Thanks for clearing up my questions. I'm much more informed now. I called all the BB's in a couple hundred miles, no cards at any. 2 of them confirmed what you/other's said, that Tivo had them pull the cards and return them. So I sucked it up and bought one for an extra $100 on ebay. It's more expensive and will have a longer break-even time, but as I understand it, no one knows how the S3 pricing and subscription plans will pan out. Getting one is a calculated risk to go toward a S3. Worst case I should be able to get most of the face value of the card back if S3 dosen't work out. I hope . Best case, I'll have a S3 with lifetime and I think that will be a nice box and one that will hold some value at that.

Fingers crossed, anxiously awaiting release becasue man does my Comcast HD DVR suck...

Scott


----------



## skeedle

After confirming that the Lifetime activation window was still open for 2 more weeks, I picked up another unit & called today to activate it. Now told that they had to activate it as a Monthly Fee accoount first & "File a Case" to covert it over to Lifetime service.

I'll get the $12.95 credited back into the $299 cost, but the process will take several days -- estimate is 3 days...

Heads up to anyone trying to make a last minute Lifetime activation -- Not sure how this will work for people who call to activate closer to 4/15 deadline: Will the "Case" hit a wall once that date passes or will TiVo honor it based on date activation call / $$ was made??


----------



## Joeg180

Circuit City was advertising 40 and 80 hours boxes in todays flyer.

Best Buy and Compusa had hte 80 hour boxes advertised.


----------



## Skypp

Dear TivoOpsMgr:

I sent you an e-mail as you had requested. Did you get it? Three weeks now, and still no product lifetime. You said it should only take 3-4 bussiness days.

- Skypp


----------



## HotStuff2

I'm debating about calling and switching to product lifetime.  I currently pay $6.95/month, and I rarely watch my TiVo anymore since I have a 50" plasma HDTV - so I tend to downoad WS content and watch that instead. At $300, it would take 43 months (or almost 2 years) to recoup the cost; and since I'm really wanting a Series3 (to record HD content), the Series2 may very well be retired and no longer used before that. Then again, I could always use it in the bedroom or sell it....

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## mrjam2jab

I switched my $6.95 unit to lifetime when this whole debacle arose....just seemed like the natural thing to do to get out from under the monthly charge...now the wife "suggested" we get a third box for the kids toy room tv....$150 rebate expires this saturday....Lifetime upgrade option expires in 10 days...

Wonder if she was serious?


----------



## jfh3

skeedle said:


> After confirming that the Lifetime activation window was still open for 2 more weeks, I picked up another unit & called today to activate it. Now told that they had to activate it as a Monthly Fee accoount first & "File a Case" to covert it over to Lifetime service.
> 
> I'll get the $12.95 credited back into the $299 cost, but the process will take several days -- estimate is 3 days...
> 
> Heads up to anyone trying to make a last minute Lifetime activation -- Not sure how this will work for people who call to activate closer to 4/15 deadline: Will the "Case" hit a wall once that date passes or will TiVo honor it based on date activation call / $$ was made??


FWIW - my last lifetime activation took over a week and just got completed yesterday. With the call center no longer to process the activations, it's apparently a manual process handled by a small group, that appears to have been hammered over the last couple weeks.

As for the case hitting a wall after 4/15 - that wouldn't be right at all, if the request was in before then. Why should a customer be penalized if it takes Tivo more time to honor the request.


----------



## sdzc

Probably silly questions, but I am going to ask them anyway:

1) Lifetime is $299.99 correct?
2) If I get Lifetime on one box, the other two units I have will remain at $6.95 per month each?

Thanks for the reponse, I am contemplating Lifetime on one box as it seems, but it would take too long on the other two units to offset the cost. $299.99/$6.95 = 43 months)

Thanks in advance for the answers!


----------



## skeedle

Good news! "Lifetime" kicked in on new unit tonight, so it only took 3 days from the time I filed the case with the call center.

Cost was $299, so that is still the lifetime amount for the unit -- I think the other units will remain at $6.95, but not 100% sure about that point -- All of our units are lifetime now & it has paid out, since units are 3, 4 & 5 years old

$399 for 3 years (& then you'd still need to keep paying) vs. $299 for Lifetime of the unit...

Serious $$ outlay in the narrow window of opportunity that's left before 4/15 -- Good luck deciding!


----------



## jfh3

sdzc said:


> Probably silly questions, but I am going to ask them anyway:
> 
> 1) Lifetime is $299.99 correct?
> 2) If I get Lifetime on one box, the other two units I have will remain at $6.95 per month each?
> 
> Thanks for the reponse, I am contemplating Lifetime on one box as it seems, but it would take too long on the other two units to offset the cost. $299.99/$6.95 = 43 months)
> 
> Thanks in advance for the answers!


1) Yes.
2) Yes.

Your calculations are correct, unless you consider the possibility of selling the lifetimed box to someone for whom it would be a first Tivo.


----------



## sdzc

Just signed up for the Lifetime service on one unit. There were no problems in doing it, but they did have to "elevate" it to another group for the final approval. They did give me a case number though.


----------



## jfh3

sdzc said:


> Just signed up for the Lifetime service on one unit. There were no problems in doing it, but they did have to "elevate" it to another group for the final approval. They did give me a case number though.


Actually, it's not that they elevate the case "for approval", it's just that the CSRs no longer have the ability to activate lifetime and that's now done from a central group (accounting group at Tivo?) with a limited number of people.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Hi scs00,

Yup! Available in 3-month and 12-month denominations:

http://www.tivo.com/2.9.1.asp

Best,
Stephen


----------



## jshorr

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Hi scs00,
> 
> Yup! Available in 3-month and 12-month denominations:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/2.9.1.asp
> 
> Best,
> Stephen


Just a curiosity about 12 month certificates (the paper ones) they say on them "A monthly gift subscription may be applied towards product lifetime service." Does that mean you can call up with a 12 month card (after 4/15) and activate lifetime because the statement was on the certificate you purchased before the new pricing plans? Thank you.


----------



## timckelley

Nice loophole you found there.


----------



## jshorr

timckelley said:


> Nice loophole you found there.


Heh, I wonder if the 12 month certificates are new or if they are the same one's that say you can activate it towards lifetime. Probably a no-go though, TiVo can't really argue about using an existing lifetime code but they can probably hold you to the 12 months on your 1 year sub.


----------



## jfh3

jshorr said:


> Just a curiosity about 12 month certificates (the paper ones) they say on them "A monthly gift subscription may be applied towards product lifetime service." Does that mean you can call up with a 12 month card (after 4/15) and activate lifetime because the statement was on the certificate you purchased before the new pricing plans? Thank you.


I believe that "can be applied to product lifetime" applies ONLY if done when the unit is initially activated. I haven't seen the T&Cs on the back of one of those certificates, but they MAY fall into the same exception that the Best Buy product lifetime gift cards do.


----------



## jshorr

jfh3 said:


> I believe that "can be applied to product lifetime" applies ONLY if done when the unit is initially activated. I haven't seen the T&Cs on the back of one of those certificates, but they MAY fall into the same exception that the Best Buy product lifetime gift cards do.


Right, the question is whether you could sit on one and use it down the road.....


----------



## jfh3

jshorr said:


> Right, the question is whether you could sit on one and use it down the road.....


If the language on the back of the certificates is the same as that found on the back of the Best Buy cards, my guess would be yes. A contract is a contract.


----------



## 1283

When a lifetime GC is purchased, you have a lifetime service contract, and TiVo is honoring it. When a 3/12-month GC is purchased, you have *NOT* purchased a lifetime service contract. Lifetime is just an option that will *NOT* be available after 4/15.


----------



## jshorr

I agree for the most part, and I wouldn't try to argue it, but still the argument COULD be made, especially if somemone found a 12 month card in a store with the wording that said they could use it towards lifetime....don't you think?


----------



## 1283

No. How much additional is TiVo supposed to charge you when lifetime sub does not have a price tag associated with it?


----------



## jshorr

Ooooh, that's a good one. Maybe you just have to negotiate individually with the CSR


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## jfh3

OK, to head off a bunch of questions on Friday and Saturday:

The revised policy on lifetime says "until 4/15" - does that mean Friday (4/14) is the last day and it's not available on Saturday (4/15) or does it really mean "through 4/15" (e.g. all day Saturday)?


edit:

OK, nevermind. Even though the sticky thread says "until 4/15", TivoPony's post earlier in this thread says "through 4/15", so Saturday it is.

After the Easter Bunny comes this year, it's too late ...


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## eibgrad

sdzc said:


> Probably silly questions, but I am going to ask them anyway:
> 
> 1) Lifetime is $299.99 correct?
> 2) If I get Lifetime on one box, the other two units I have will remain at $6.95 per month each?
> 
> Thanks for the reponse, I am contemplating Lifetime on one box as it seems, but it would take too long on the other two units to offset the cost. $299.99/$6.95 = 43 months)
> 
> Thanks in advance for the answers!


Still not an easy decision.

You have to also consider whether having the lifetime sub would substantially increase the resale value. Let's say you can resell that $300 sub for $200 on eBay (being conservative), that means you're really only spending $100 from now until you resell ($100 / $6.95 = 14 months to recoup). Beyond that is gravy. And of course, the value of the hardware itself increases w/ the lifetime sub. So in reality, you may recoup much sooner, perhaps as little as 6 months.

Btw, I have a suspicion that soon after 4/15, Tivo will increase the monthly on second Tivo's! There's no reason to assume given all these recent changes that the $6.95 monthly is *safe*. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see this hit $9.95 or more in the months to come.

So I'm in the same boat, it's just not that easy a decision. I suspect I will convert my second Humax DRT-800 from $6.95 to lifetime, then sell in a about 12-18 months for an S3. I believe S2's, esp. w/ lifetime sub, will still be in high demand at that time.

JMTC


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## timckelley

One more day left!


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## TiVoStephen

Well, technically, two days -- today and tomorrow!

Note that our call center closes at 8pm Pacific on Saturday, so make sure to call before then if you want your Product Lifetime on Saturday.

After 8pm Saturday, the only ways to get Product Lifetime will be with the small remaining inventory of unredeemed gift certificates, or with a Humax DVD-R model.

(See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290723 for details.)


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## MediaLivingRoom

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Well, technically, two days -- today and tomorrow!
> 
> Note that our call center closes at 8pm Pacific on Saturday, so make sure to call before then if you want your Product Lifetime on Saturday.
> 
> After 8pm Saturday, the only ways to get Product Lifetime will be with the small remaining inventory of unredeemed gift certificates, or with a Humax DVD-R model.
> 
> (See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290723 for details.)


Any chance you'll introduce the Dual Tuner TiVo Series 2 just after 4/15?


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## 1283

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Any chance you'll introduce the Dual Tuner TiVo Series 2 just after 4/15?


That's what we'll like to know, but no TiVo representative can say anything about it until it's officially announced.


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## johnd7

I just called and got lifetime on one of my monthly units. The rep said it should be ok but has to go to a Supervisor for final approval. The most interesting thing the rep said those was that I could transfer my lifetime to a new Series 3 when they came out. When I questioned whether that was correct the rep stated that is how they have always done it in the past and I should be able to do for the Series 3. It was always my understanding the service stayed with the box. If this rep is giving out information like this incorrectly TivoOps or someone really should send me a message for the case number and rep name because that would be a big piece of mis information to most of us I would think.


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## ZeoTiVo

johnd7 said:


> I just called and got lifetime on one of my monthly units. The rep said it should be ok but has to go to a Supervisor for final approval. The most interesting thing the rep said those was that I could transfer my lifetime to a new Series 3 when they came out. When I questioned whether that was correct the rep stated that is how they have always done it in the past and I should be able to do for the Series 3. It was always my understanding the service stayed with the box. If this rep is giving out information like this incorrectly TivoOps or someone really should send me a message for the case number and rep name because that would be a big piece of mis information to most of us I would think.


the rep is speaking from the past when series 2 came out and people had paid many hundreds of dollars for a series 1. Plus lifetime is no longer an option past Saturday. After that a lucky few with gift cards may be able to get a lifetime on a series 3 but even that is not set in stone.

bottom line - the rep has no offiical idea or even a good clue about what is happening.


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## johnd7

ZeoTiVo said:


> the rep is speaking from the past when series 2 came out and people had paid many hundreds of dollars for a series 1. Plus lifetime is no longer an option past Saturday. After that a lucky few with gift cards may be able to get a lifetime on a series 3 but even that is not set in stone.
> 
> bottom line - the rep has no offiical idea or even a good clue about what is happening.


I have had series 1 and 2 and have not heard of transferring lifetime from one box to another. The rep said I could do right now from one of my Series 2 boxes to another Series 2 box if I wanted. Anyhow, when they straighten this new pricing out they need to send an email to the phone agents ASAP. Like I said, hopefully TivoOps is interested in following up with the agent. I just don't get why Tivo agents continually give out jacked up info. I have worked in multiple call centers that I am sure were bigger than Tivo and we could disseminate info in a matter of seconds. Do they not use Email? A knowledge base? Message Forum for the techs? Team meetings?
Anyone know how many customer service reps Tivo has?

Besides all that though, it was actually the best Tivo call experience I have had...I only waited about 2 minutes and the rep at least knew I could get Lifetime through tomorrow, and the rep was very nice.


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## ZeoTiVo

johnd7 said:


> The rep said I could do right now from one of my Series 2 boxes to another Series 2 box if I wanted.


Wow nice rep, maybe the rep was saying I can transfer anything to anything, offical TiVo policies or not


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## jfh3

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> After 8pm Saturday, the only ways to get Product Lifetime will be with the small remaining inventory of unredeemed gift certificates


Two questions for you Stephen:

1) How small is the remaining inventory?
2) Where is it?


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## jfh3

ZeoTiVo said:


> Wow nice rep, maybe the rep was saying I can transfer anything to anything, offical TiVo policies or not


How much you want to bet that the CSR tools won't allow a transfer, no matter what the CSR thinks/says?

Even though you can still buy lifetime for new boxes today and tomorrow, the CSRs can't do it any longer - that's why they have to open a case number for each request.


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## jfh3

ZeoTiVo said:


> After that a lucky few with gift cards may be able to get a lifetime on a series 3 but even that is not set in stone.
> 
> bottom line - the rep has no offiical idea or even a good clue about what is happening.


TivoOpsMgr (and I think TivoPony) have explicitly stated that you WILL be able to use a lifetime gift card to enable lifetime on a new Series 3.

You're absolutely correct about the clueless rep though ...


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## timckelley

johnd7 said:


> The most interesting thing the rep said those was that I could transfer my lifetime to a new Series 3 when they came out.


I would think that if the rep told you that, and if you relied on that statement when you purchased lifetime, i.e. made plans to transfer to series 3 when they came out, that they should honor what they told you. IOW, once the series 3 comes out, if they don't let you transfer the lifetime to it, you could have a legitimate complaint that had you not been misinformed, you wouldn't have ever bought the lifetime to begin with, that you only bought it because time was running out, and you were really buying it for your future series 3.

I suppose TiVo could deal with your legitimate complaint by refunding you your $299, and unlifetiming you, though.


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## DCIFRTHS

jfh3 said:


> TivoOpsMgr (and I think TivoPony) have explicitly stated that you WILL be able to use a lifetime gift card to enable lifetime on a new Series 3. ...


That's what I was going to say...


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## TiVoStephen

johnd7, that agent is misinformed (and has ignored our training and Knowledge articles). Please send me the case number so they can be retrained.

Please read the sticky thread for a summary of situations where a Product Lifetime transfer is allowed. There are not many such situations. In general, Product Lifetime can NOT be transferred, and in particular it can't be transferred from a Series2 to a Series3.

Unredeemed Product Lifetime gift subscriptions are a different matter, but very few people have those and there is no place to get one if you don't have one already.


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## unrealguy69

I just now called TIVO at 1-877-367-8486 and activated my Product Lifetime Service with no problem at all. If you're going to do it, today is the last day.


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## jfh3

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Unredeemed Product Lifetime gift subscriptions are a different matter, but very few people have those and there is no place to get one if you don't have one already.


Well, there is always eBay. 

Would be interesting to know how many lifetime gift cards there were in the Best Buy channel at the end of January.


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## 1283

jfh3 said:


> Well, there is always eBay.


The highest I have seen is $621. That's insane.


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## naiLS1

I just signed up my newest Tivo with lifetime today. From the moment I dialed until I was speaking with an actual person was maybe 90 seconds. They're on the ball today!


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## timckelley

29 minutes to go! In 30 minutes, lifetime as a option will be cut off!

Last minute holdouts - call now.


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## timckelley

One minute to go! After that, forever hold your peace.


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## timckelley

This is an historic moment. May we all observe a moment of silence as we all ponder the significance of no more TiVo lifetime.


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## jfh3

timckelley said:


> This is an historic moment. May we all observe a moment of silence as we all ponder the signicance of no more TiVo lifetime.


Congrats on getting the perfect timestamp for a post in this thread! :up:

(I was trying to do something similar in a new thread, but got distracted by a phone call and now can't delete the thread ... :down: )


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## 1283

People reported that the call center closed early today, most likely because of Easter. Therefore, lifetime "passed away" earlier than expected.


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## dumbunny

c3 said:


> People reported that the call center closed early today, most likely because of Easter. Therefore, lifetime "passed away" earlier than expected.


I made it through after 6 pm PDT, so it wasn't too much earlier.


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## timckelley

dumbunny said:


> I made it through after 6 pm PDT, so it wasn't too much earlier.


I wonder if you're the latest TCFer to do it.


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## Fraser+Dief

c3 said:


> No. How much additional is TiVo supposed to charge you when lifetime sub does not have a price tag associated with it?


I know this is a bit late, but the 12 month gift sub says right on it:

"In that case, you will pay $299 minus the value of the gift subscription".


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## timckelley

c3 said:


> People reported that the call center closed early today, most likely because of Easter. Therefore, lifetime "passed away" earlier than expected.


Now I'm waiting for somebody to post saying they tried to upgrade to lifetime at 7:45 pm PST on Saturday, but the call center was closed, and that they are therefore owed a lifetime sub. Say, if even you didn't call then, you could claim you did.


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## lajohn27

timckelley said:


> Now I'm waiting for somebody to post saying they tried to upgrade to lifetime at 7:45 pm PST on Saturday, but the call center was closed, and that they are therefore owed a lifetime sub. Say, if even you didn't call then, you could claim you did.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=296028

Ask and ye shall receive.

J


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## Netbudda

lajohn27 said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=296028
> 
> Ask and ye shall receive.
> 
> J


It should be "Read and ye shall receive"

Timckelley posted 5 hours after that thread was started.......


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## timckelley

Netbudda said:


> It should be "Read and ye shall receive"
> 
> Timckelley posted 5 hours after that thread was started.......


I honestly didn't know that thread existed until just now.


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## Stylin

lajohn27 said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=296028
> 
> Ask and ye shall receive.
> 
> J


In all honesty, his situation seems legit, as I can vouch he was posting in frustration on another message board when he couldn't get through to tivo. It was almost a 1/2 hr before they closed. The times do match. He says he also has his cell phone record.


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## nccruiser

I wonder if this will prove to be a good move for Tivo. Seems like the elimination of the lifetime & forcing new customers into an expensive monthly plan would make those cable company DVR's seem a lot more attractive. 

I suppose time will tell. I have been a huge Tivo advocate for 5 years now and have made a handful of referrals, but at this point if my series 1 ever dies I'm going to pay my 5 bucks a month and get one from my cable provider.


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## cherry ghost

nccruiser said:


> I wonder if this will prove to be a good move for Tivo. Seems like the elimination of the lifetime & forcing new customers into an expensive monthly plan would make those cable company DVR's seem a lot more attractive.
> 
> I suppose time will tell. I have been a huge Tivo advocate for 5 years now and have made a handful of referrals, but at this point if my series 1 ever dies I'm going to pay my 5 bucks a month and get one from my cable provider.


$5 a month? Who's your provider?


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## Brainiac 5

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly what I read in TiVo's annual report some time back, then about half of the subcribers had lifetime (or maybe it was half of the new subscribers they'd signed up that year). If that's true, then it does seem a bit of a gamble. It would probably be safer to just raise the price of lifetime enough to make it profitable.

I know that I personally would have rushed out and bought a Dual Tuner unit if lifetime had been available, even at a higher price (I know there were ways to get it until May 15th, but I was a bit uneasy about using them).

Oh, well, they will at least get a new subscription out of me when the Series 3 comes out.


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## classicsat

Read. Really read. 

A:Nobody is forcing the new pricing plans on anyone at this time. You still have the option of buying a retail unit and subscribing the old way with the same pricing, sans Lifetime.

B: Lifetime units cost TiVo after a time. Eliminating it will eilimante those costs from new subs.


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## Lukej

nccruiser said:


> I wonder if this will prove to be a good move for Tivo. Seems like the elimination of the lifetime & forcing new customers into an expensive monthly plan would make those cable company DVR's seem a lot more attractive.
> 
> I suppose time will tell. I have been a huge Tivo advocate for 5 years now and have made a handful of referrals, but at this point if my series 1 ever dies I'm going to pay my 5 bucks a month and get one from my cable provider.


My cable company will upgrade the regular digital cable box to a dual tuner dvr for only $2 more. The box is a scientific atlanta and the company has not turned on the "new episodes only" option, so the upgrade ends up being about $2 more expensive than it's worth.


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## DCIFRTHS

Lukej said:


> My cable company will upgrade the regular digital cable box to a dual tuner dvr for only $2 more. The box is a scientific atlanta and the company has not turned on the "new episodes only" option, so the upgrade ends up being about $2 more expensive than it's worth.


What is the cable comapny?


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## bluedakar

> What is the cable comapny?


Ask a new Series 2 DT owner!


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## DCIFRTHS

bluedakar said:


> Ask a new Series 2 DT owner!


Huh? Was that a joke?


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## Lukej

DCIFRTHS said:


> What is the cable comapny?


Citynet--it's a local city services company, though they seem to be getting their lineup and equipment from comcast (giving such a small size town two cable companies to choose from, the other being Mediacom)


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## mattack

classicsat said:


> B: Lifetime units cost TiVo after a time. Eliminating it will eilimante those costs from new subs.


But you can also argue the opposite - without lifetime, some people are less likely to get a Tivo. How big a number "some" is obviously is not absolutely known..

I was very likely to get a series 3 unit if I could get lifetime -- and even the series 2 dual tuner would be great since I'm an analog user.. I'd gladly trade in my 2 series 1s for a dual tuner series 2 with lifetime (and even maybe pay a one time fee).. but without lifetime, I'm not going to get the DT series 2, and am very much less likely (I will not say never) to get a series 3, especially at the beginning when the hardware is more expensive.

I don't think this is an ultra-geek thing either, I think it's probably even more common among "regular people".. they just don't know as much about the history of lifetime subscriptions.

(BTW, yes, I have been following the ebay sales, and am kicking myself for missing a "second chance offer" to get a lifetime card in the low $400s.)


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## Brainiac 5

mattack said:


> But you can also argue the opposite - without lifetime, some people are less likely to get a Tivo. How big a number "some" is obviously is not absolutely known..


That's why I think it's interesting if it's true that half of TiVo signups in the past have been lifetime - "some" could be anywhere from 0 to 50%. (I know it's not 0%, because I haven't bought a dual tuner unit but would have if lifetime had been available.)

I think classicsat's point is that in the long term, TiVo actually lost money on customers with lifetime, so losing customers who would only sign up for lifetime actually increases TiVo's long term profits.

What I wish they'd do is just raise the price of lifetime instead, perhaps by quite a bit, so that it becomes profitable given their latest understanding of how long a unit is likely to be in service (I think they've realized that this is longer than they originally thought). They could then keep more of the "must have lifetime" customers and actually make money off them. Those eBay prices seem to indicate that people _will_ pay ridiculous amounts for lifetime.

I'm pretty certain I'll get a Series 3, but with no lifetime I won't be buying TiVos right and left with reckless abandon the way I have in the past.


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## buddhawood

Anyone know what the cut off date is for getting lifetime service on the Humax DVD burner models?


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## ScubaCat3

I like that concept - buying tivos with "wreckless abandon". lol. 

I don't know why, but that comment just made my day 

Seriously, I was fortunate to enough get a DT with lifetime, but I do understand what you are saying. It's also weird to me to give someone a gift that'll have a service fee for the recipient attached to it -- even if it's a year out (assuming I were to include a 1-year gift subscription, for example)...


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## ScubaCat3

buddhawood said:


> Anyone know what the cut off date is for getting lifetime service on the Humax DVD burner models?


It was May 15th.


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## Einselen

ScubaCat3 said:


> It was May 15th.


Incorrect. Tivo has a deal still with Humax and are still offering lifetime on the DVD Burner models. Now if you buy the Humax DVD burner, put lifetime on it and then have to exchange it within the 30 days then you can only transfer the lifetime to another Humax DVD Burner.


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## jfh3

Einselen said:


> Incorrect. Tivo has a deal still with Humax and are still offering lifetime on the DVD Burner models. Now if you buy the Humax DVD burner, put lifetime on it and then have to exchange it within the 30 days then you can only transfer the lifetime to another Humax DVD Burner.


True, but you can now only put lifetime on a previously unactivated Humax DVD model, can't upgrade from a monthly sub any more.


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## 1283

Someone said on eBay that Humax lifetime expires on 6/06/2006. Don't know if that's true or not.


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## Fraser+Dief

classicsat said:


> B: Lifetime units cost TiVo after a time. Eliminating it will eilimante those costs from new subs.


It also eliminates new subs.

And what are those ongoing costs? A few cents in guide data? Is it even quantifiable? Pretty difficult to do so, when you've got to send out the guide data to millions anyways. This is not like an ISP situation, where you have heavy users degrading the service and causing service issues with your other customers.



mattack said:


> But you can also argue the opposite - without lifetime, some people are less likely to get a Tivo. How big a number "some" is obviously is not absolutely known..


Absolutely my situation. The only reason I purchased the tivo back in November was that I wouldn't have another monthly black hole swallowing my money. Without lifetime, I'm still using my old cable system, just as I've done for the last 15 years.

This pretty much guarantees that this is my first, and last tivo.

Lifetimers are your zealot customer base. They're the ones that convince others to sign up for tivo. Alienating them is not a great business decision.

My brother was interested in the S3, my mother the S2. Both of those potential sales are *gone*, because I've told them that lifetime is gone.


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## MikeMar

I already have a lifetime unit and a montly unit.

Already being a lifetime unit, i'm MORE likely to buy more units to get the multi discount.

The breakeven is like 3.6 years for a lifetime to be worth it. Rather just pay the montly.

So i think lifetime people are so much more likely to get more units, so i have no problem with this as it will ultimatly help tivo down the line


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## Brainiac 5

MikeMar said:


> Already being a lifetime unit, i'm MORE likely to buy more units to get the multi discount.
> 
> The breakeven is like 3.6 years for a lifetime to be worth it. Rather just pay the montly.


There are probably many people (such as myself) on this board that have kept TiVos for longer than 3.6 years. Also, this argument assumes that everyone is always rational about money; in fact, I think most people are not, at least some of the time. There are many people (and I am one of them) who would rather just pay one time and be done with it, even if paying monthly could or probably would result in a lower total cost.

I have five TiVos, all with lifetime, and at least two were purchased after the multi-service discount became available.



> So i think lifetime people are so much more likely to get more units, so i have no problem with this as it will ultimatly help tivo down the line


This seems like an argument for _not_ dropping lifetime. If people with lifetime are so much more likely to get more units and pay for them monthly because of the multi-service discount, then wouldn't TiVo like to create more of such people? Dropping lifetime means that the number of these customers can at best stay the same, and will probably slowly decrease over time as units go out of service for one reason or another.


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## OldTownTreadles

Before I ever bought myself a Tivo, I recognized that they were a good thing, and bought several as gifts for business associates. It would have been cheesy to give a business associate a gift that included a recurring subscription cost, it'd be sort of like giving them a trip to Hawaii, but not paying for the Hotel or room service. So, I'd include lifetime. Now I am out that as a gift option. Because of this, I can't give Tivos anymore. So it goes.


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## jfh3

OldTownTreadles said:


> Now I am out that as a gift option. Because of this, I can't give Tivos anymore. So it goes.


Granted, Tivo is making it more difficult, but there's always the prepay options. If you don't like that, just set up accounts for the receipeints.

With this, like most things, if you want to do it, you usually can.


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## ChuckyBox

OldTownTreadles said:


> ... Because of this, I can't give Tivos anymore. So it goes.


Feh. TiVo as a business gift? The only appropriate business gifts are hookers and booze. I thought everybody knew that.


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## OldTownTreadles

ChuckyBox said:


> Feh. TiVo as a business gift? The only appropriate business gifts are hookers and booze. I thought everybody knew that.


That's funny, but there are some people who don't want either. My business gifts have always been along the lines of something a family can enjoy. I think it depends on what kind of business you're in and who you're doing business with. If I ever happen to do business with you I'll keep your gift preferences in mind.

A nice Tivo with lifetime was always a reasonable thing to give.


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## TonyB_1996

I think Tivo doesnt want to offer a lifetime sub anymore because they already figured out that they might not be in the PVR business anymore two years from now. Why commit a lifetime if you know youll die anytime soon. Not a good sign for customers and stockholders.


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## maki

What a horrible thought!


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## 1283

TonyB_1996 said:


> I think Tivo doesnt want to offer a lifetime sub anymore because they already figured out that they might not be in the PVR business anymore two years from now. Why commit a lifetime if you know youll die anytime soon. Not a good sign for customers and stockholders.


What kind of logic is that? If TiVo plans to go out of business, they should continue to sell lifetime to collect more money than the monthly fees.


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## jlb

FYI, the "Win TiVo" promotion on the TiVo website is for DT boxes AND lifetime service. I enter on a daily basis......


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## pdhenry

jlb said:


> FYI, the "Win TiVo" promotion on the TiVo website is for DT boxes AND lifetime service. I enter on a daily basis......


Man, that page was hard to find...

However...


> One entry per person or household or e-mail address per monthly drawing will be accepted.


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## jlb

Buggers. I never saw that anywhere. Hopefully, they will see my address and just collapse them into a single entry, rather than not including them. I really don't want to have to remember to enter 1 during each monthly period.


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## megazone

jlb said:


> Buggers. I never saw that anywhere. Hopefully, they will see my address and just collapse them into a single entry, rather than not including them. I really don't want to have to remember to enter 1 during each monthly period.


Just set a note on your calendar for the 1st of each month.


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