# Potential new TiVo buyer, I have Moca questions



## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

I currently have Comcast basic service with NO Comcast boxes. I use tuners on my Macs to record and then stream to Apple TVs on our two HD TVs. Well, Comcast is going to very soon encrypt basic channels, so I have to do something. I really don't want to go satellite, and we are in a very difficult area for antenna, so I thought TiVo would be the easiest solution. I started reading all about it, and soon discovered that I needed to learn about Moca. Yikes. Looks simple, but the diagrams on the TiVo web site all show a cable modem in the mix, which I don't have, so I'm confused.

My setup would be:

Roamio Plus at the main TV, no ethernet available
Mini at second TV, also no ethernet available
Moca adapter in the equipment closet
The closet has Uverse modem, Apple Airport Extreme, and ethernet switch

What do I need to connect the Moca adapter to to establish the Moca network? I assume router and switch, but will that be sufficient? Thanks.


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

Do you have wireless available? Roamio Plus can use that for internet and then share it to create a MOCA host/bridge, which would allow you to hookup a Mini in another room using only the coaxial / MOCA.

Otherwise (or if you want wired internet):
- hookup a moca adapter in the equipment closet to wired ethernet
- hookup roamio plus and mini only with coaxial

Also realize that you will need to get a cablecard for the roamio plus so it can decode the encrypted channels.


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

I do have a wireless network. I stream wirelessly to Apple TVs at both HDTV locations. However, on TiVo web site it states that for streaming from Roamio Plus to Mini, ethernet or Moca should be used. Since I don't have ethernet at the TV locations, I want to set up Moca. I want to do what you stated under "Otherwise...". Is that going to work? I'm just confused because all of TiVo's diagrams have that cable modem in the mix.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

There isn't a specific relationship between the moca adapter and the cable modem. It's placed that way for convenience and to avoid potential issues that don't apply, since there's no cable modem in your case.


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

Do you have coaxial cable (normal cable tv wire) in the locations for the roamio plus and the mini?

additionally do you have coaxial where in the equipment closet?

If you have it only in the roamio and mini locations then you can save yourself 50 bucks and not use another moca adapter in the equipment closet. Just use the wireless to provide internet. The multi room streaming will happen over the coaxial. Just hook to coaxial to both the roamio plus and mini.

If you specifically want wired ethernet to be in the mix, then you need coaxial where you also have ethernet. And then you can hookup a moca adapter there.


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> TWhat Adam is saying is that the wifi can be used for the "internet" portion of the Tivo's connection. But since the Roamio Plus has a built-in moca bridge, it can be used to establish the home's moca network and communicate with the Mini over coax by selecting "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network" in the settings. No additional adapters would be necessary.


OK, I THINK I understand now. Let me check it with you guys: the only need for the Moca adapter attached to the router is so that the Roamio Plus can have a faster connection to the modem. But since I only have 12 Mb internet, wireless should be fine. The Moca network stuff is only needed to go between the the Roamio Plus and Mini. Do I have it right?

Thank you both very much!


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

FredT said:


> OK, I THINK I understand now. Let me check it with you guys: the only need for the Moca adapter attached to the router is so that the Roamio Plus can have a faster connection to the modem. But since I only have 12 Mb internet, wireless should be fine. The Moca network stuff is only needed to go between the the Roamio Plus and Mini. Do I have it right?
> 
> Thank you both very much!


Yes. As long as your wireless provides a good connection (as in you don't have interference / signal dropping out) then you can use wireless.

I personally prefer wired for everything. But I also wired my house so I have ethernet available at my Roamio. You don't, so why spend another 50 bucks when you don't need to.


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

AdamNJ said:


> Yes. As long as your wireless provides a good connection (as in you don't have interference / signal dropping out) then you can use wireless.
> 
> I personally prefer wired for everything. But I also wired my house so I have ethernet available at my Roamio. You don't, so why spend another 50 bucks when you don't need to.


I do have good wireless where the Roamio Plus would sit.

I thought of a potential reason to have A Moca adapter in the equipment closet, streaming to iPads. If I'm streaming with a wireless connection for the Roamio, wireless bandwidth would be used both from the Roamio to the router and then from the router to the iPad. I guess I can wait and see if that's really a problem or not.

Speaking of streaming, is there any way to stream to a Mac?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That can be an issue with that setup. However if you have a good wifi connection it shouldn't be a problem. The recoded iPad streams are only about 2.5Mbps so even if it has to send to the router and then to your iPad you'd only be using about 5Mbps total of wifi bandwidth which should be no problem for a good N connection. But you should try it out. If you have issues you can always add a MoCa adapter after the fact.

Currently streaming only works on iOS devices. Android support is coming but there have been no announced plans for other platforms.


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> That can be an issue with that setup. However if you have a good wifi connection it shouldn't be a problem. The recoded iPad streams are only about 2.5Mbps so even if it has to send to the router and then to your iPad you'd only be using about 5Mbps total of wifi bandwidth which should be no problem for a good N connection. But you should try it out. If you have issues you can always add a MoCa adapter after the fact.


Thanks for that information. I shouldn't have a problem then with that kind of load on my network.



> Currently streaming only works on iOS devices. Android support is coming but there have been no announced plans for other platforms.


OK, thanks. I've seen that there are ways of getting files from the Roamio to a Mac. How difficult is this, and what kind of files does one end up with?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Yeah the iPad/iPhone/iPod streaming is only in the neighborhood of 2.1 mbps on the "Best" quality setting. Well within any respectable wireless limits.

Edit: Beaten to it. 

I don't know a lot about moving stuff to the Mac, but I believe a Java-based program called KMTTG can do this. The resulting file is either a ".tivo" file which is proprietary, or it can be encoded to whatever profile/bitrate you choose from the list as long as the recording is not copy-protected by the broadcaster.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

FredT said:


> OK, thanks. I've seen that there are ways of getting files from the Roamio to a Mac. How difficult is this, and what kind of files does one end up with?


The official way of doing it is by buying Roxio Toast but there are community tools to do it. However these are full size MPEG-2 recordings so they will eat up a lot of your wifi bandwidth.


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## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> There isn't a specific relationship between the moca adapter and the cable modem. It's placed that way for convenience and to avoid potential issues that don't apply, since there's no cable modem in your case.
> 
> What Adam is saying is that the wifi can be used for the "internet" portion of the Tivo's connection. But since the Roamio Plus has a built-in moca bridge, it can be used to establish the home's moca network and communicate with the Mini over coax by selecting *"Use this DVR to create a MoCA network" in the settings*. No additional adapters would be necessary.
> 
> Or if you would rather be 100% wired, you can use a moca adapter. The adapter would need to be on a coax line, and close enough to the router to be able to connect to it with an ethernet cable.


Great thread with good info. I have had my Roamio for a few weeks now and I also have MoCa with some ethernet connected devices. But it just so happens my Roamio is connected to ethernet so thanks to this thread I have removed my MoCa adapter that was connected to my router and now using my Roamio as a bridge for the rest of my home  One less device to deal with....

Thanks Again


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

Well, it didn't work. It is not possible to set up a Moca network between the Roamio Plus and the Mini and at the same time have the Roamio connect to the internet using wifi. So I'll have to get a Moca adapter to go in the equipment closet. Unfortunately I can't try out the Mini until it gets here. And what's with the pricing on those things? Tivo sells them for $30 less than Amazon!


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## GBTheater (May 4, 2009)

FredT said:


> Well, it didn't work. It is not possible to set up a Moca network between the Roamio Plus and the Mini and at the same time have the Roamio connect to the internet using wifi. So I'll have to get a Moca adapter to go in the equipment closet. Unfortunately I can't try out the Mini until it gets here. And what's with the pricing on those things? Tivo sells them for $30 less than Amazon!


Is it the Moca adapter or the Mini that Tivo sells for $30 less than Amazon?

I was surprised to see that someone had told you that you could create a bridge using the wireless. That would never work. The Tivo can't dish out DHCP and can't act as a bridge. Injecting Moca at your Internet connection is the best solution. You'll now have high speed ethernet available throughout your entire house without running CAT5. You can even connect an 8-port switch behind a MOCA adapter and connect all of your other ethernet equipment to cut down on the WiFi traffic in your house. MOCA operates at better than 200Mbps, so it's plenty fast for all home networking needs.


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

GBTheater said:


> Is it the Moca adapter or the Mini that Tivo sells for $30 less than Amazon?
> 
> I was surprised to see that someone had told you that you could create a bridge using the wireless. That would never work. The Tivo can't dish out DHCP and can't act as a bridge. Injecting Moca at your Internet connection is the best solution. You'll now have high speed ethernet available throughout your entire house without running CAT5. You can even connect an 8-port switch behind a MOCA adapter and connect all of your other ethernet equipment to cut down on the WiFi traffic in your house. MOCA operates at better than 200Mbps, so it's plenty fast for all home networking needs.


The Moca adapter is $30 at TiVo. Amazon sells the Mini for about $10 less than TiVo. I bought it Best Buy at regular price because I needed it fast. Now I guess I could return and order from Amazon since I have to wait on the Moca adapter.


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## Icarus (Jun 15, 2002)

edited my post:

I just tried bridging wirelessly on my Roamio Pro and it doesn't allow it. Not sure why. After you set up and test the wireless network connection, it drops the wireless connection and complains about not having an internet connection when you try to "use this dvr to create a moca network"

You can still bridge wirelessly, you'd just need an external wireless router (ie, airport express) to act as the bridge.

Why do you need a separate Moca adaptor? Your Roamio Plus has one built in. I guess if you're not near your wired network connection you might want to set up the Moca network somewhere else?

-David


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## TivoQueensDad (Jan 24, 2005)

FredT said:


> I currently have Comcast basic service with NO Comcast boxes. I use tuners on my Macs to record and then stream to Apple TVs on our two HD TVs. Well, Comcast is going to very soon encrypt basic channels, so I have to do something. I really don't want to go satellite, and we are in a very difficult area for antenna, so I thought TiVo would be the easiest solution. I started reading all about it, and soon discovered that I needed to learn about Moca. Yikes. Looks simple, but the diagrams on the TiVo web site all show a cable modem in the mix, which I don't have, so I'm confused.
> 
> My setup would be:
> 
> ...


My old setup:
Netgear MCAB1001 MOCA adapters in my office, family room, MBR and basement so I can extend my network to those locations (office is where the cable modem is). The family room MCAB1001 connects to an 8 port switch which has ethernet ports for the TV (still in use for HBO GO), DVR, gaming system, disk array.

New setup:
Added - Tivo Roamio in my family room & Tivo Mini in my bedroom.
Removed - MCAB1001 from my MBR
Tivo Roamio - I used ethernet to hook into the switch so I didn't lose the other connections
Tivo Mini - Since I only needed the TV hooked to the internet, I used the MOCA connection on the Mini

No setup was necessary. Everything just plugged in and worked. I was amazed and pleased.


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

Icarus said:


> Why do you need a separate Moca adaptor? Your Roamio Plus has one built in. I guess if you're not near your wired network connection you might want to set up the Moca network somewhere else?
> 
> -David


The Roamio Plus is in the family room, the router is in a closet. I don't have ethernet in the family room, but I do have a coax connection in the closet. So the Moca adapter will attach to the router to connect the Moca network to the internet.


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## Bphagan (Jul 23, 2010)

My Roamio Pro is coming this week and I was expecting the built in wifi with built in MOCA to both work together.
I read here that you can only use one or the other at the same time.
Now I need to add a MOCA adapter at Cable modem or add WiFi access point to the Roamio location. 
That seems like a poor design to me.

At least I now know so I don't waste time setting up the system.

Thanks for the thread.
bdog


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

Bphagan said:


> My Roamio Pro is coming this week and I was expecting the built in wifi with built in MOCA to both work together.
> I read here that you can only use one or the other at the same time.
> Now I need to add a MOCA adapter at Cable modem or add WiFi access point to the Roamio location.
> That seems like a poor design to me.
> ...


Nevermind. Found the reference.


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

So, I can connect one Roamio (or Premiere 4 XL/Elite) to my network via Ethernet and share that connection to all other Roamios/Premiere 4 XL/Elites if they all go through the same coax feed from outside, correct?

Is there any issue if the coax splitter has an amp added to it by the cableco?


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## TivoQueensDad (Jan 24, 2005)

larrs said:


> So, I can connect one Roamio (or Premiere 4 XL/Elite) to my network via Ethernet and share that connection to all other Roamios/Premiere 4 XL/Elites if they all go through the same coax feed from outside, correct?
> 
> Is there any issue if the coax splitter has an amp added to it by the cableco?


As long as your ethernet network is connected to a Moca adapter somewhere, they should all be able to reach each other.

I'm not sure about the amp. It's not recommended (see below)

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2412

Coax Splitter

This small piece of equipment splits one coax input to two or more outputs. In most setups, you only need a splitter that provides two outputs; however, some setups might require more outputs.

In most cases, you (not your cable provider) will be responsible for providing your MoCA equipment. The TiVo store has most of the equipment you need for MoCA networking.

Will a signal amplifier interfere with my MoCA network?

We do not recommend using a signal amplifier on a MoCA network. Amplifiers can block communication between devices and cause them to disappear from the network.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

larrs said:


> So, I can connect one Roamio (or Premiere 4 XL/Elite) to my network via Ethernet and share that connection to all other Roamios/Premiere 4 XL/Elites if they all go through the same coax feed from outside, correct?
> 
> Is there any issue if the coax splitter has an amp added to it by the cableco?


My cable company, Charter, has a 8-way amplified splitter at the feed into my house, with each room in the house feeding off of that amplified splitter. Between the Charter feed and the amplifier, I have a MoCA privacy filter (https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-poe , though not this specific one) to keep the MoCA data inside of my home coax wiring.

The Premiere XL4 that I have has a two-way split at the coax feed at the wall, one to the Tivo and one to the tuning adapter. The three Premiere XL units and the one S3 unit I have have a three-way split at the coax feed, one to the MoCA adapter, one to the Tivo and one to the tuning adapter.

There's one additional MoCA adapter I have where my cable modem is located, with a three-way splitter. One feed goes to my cable modem, one goes to my VoIP modem and one goes to the MoCA adapter with the MoCA adapter connected to my router via Ethernet.

It all works great and I've not had any issues in the multiple years it's all been in operation.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

larrs said:


> Is there any issue if the coax splitter has an amp added to it by the cableco?


If the amp is correctly located at the cable's point of entry, it shouldn't be a problem.

If it's located further down one of the coax lines, ideally it should be moved, but if that's not doable it needs to be able to pass-through *at least* 1000 MHz bi-directionally.


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## gedeyenite (Oct 12, 2004)

I have a TiVo Premiere 2x Tuner that DOES NOT have the built in MoCA. It currently connects to the Internet via the TiVo WiFi adapter.

I get all my TV from HD OTA (Over The Air) so I do not have COAX TV coming into my house, therefore, no Cable Modem.

I get my Internet through a DSL connection. That Modem does not have a COAX port on it.

I have a new TiVo Mini that has access to a COAX port.

The Premiere is near a COAX port but not an Ethernet Port.

Question: Where do I (can I) add a MoCA to the mix to get the Premeire to stream to the Mini?

Thanks so much.

(Here is the schematic for my current setup): http://postimg.org/image/wb5kem04d/


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

gedeyenite said:


> Question: Where do I (can I) add a MoCA to the mix to get the Premeire to stream to the Mini?
> 
> Thanks so much.
> 
> (Here is the schematic for my current setup): http://postimg.org/image/wb5kem04d/


Nice diagram! It looks to me like you'd need to add two Moca adapters, one where the Premiere is located and the other near your router (I assume a coax outlet is available there as well, yes?). Then it's a matter of setting up a Moca network. Your Premiere would then access the Internet through Moca rather than WiFi. That's pretty much my setup, but I have a Roamio with built-in Moca, so only needed the Moca adapter at the router. There is a Moca FAQ on the TiVo site that gives step-by-step instructions for setting up the network.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

This seems like a good place to ask. 

I'm thinking of moving into an apartment. I know Comcast services the building. It's new construction and I assume there is a cable outlet in every room. Does that mean that I could just get a Roamio and a mini and hook them both up to the cable outlets and they would be connected? Or do I need a separate coax run to connect them?


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## FredT (Sep 27, 2013)

midas said:


> This seems like a good place to ask.
> 
> I'm thinking of moving into an apartment. I know Comcast services the building. It's new construction and I assume there is a cable outlet in every room. Does that mean that I could just get a Roamio and a mini and hook them both up to the cable outlets and they would be connected? Or do I need a separate coax run to connect them?


Yes, just hook them up and that's all you need. No additional coax required.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

FredT said:


> Yes, just hook them up and that's all you need. No additional coax required.


Thank you.


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## midson (Feb 26, 2005)

OK - so I have a Roamio Plus and Mini, and both COAX and CAT5 at each location. I connect the CAT5 to the Plus for internet and the COAX to both the Plus and mini, and they will communicate thru Moca on the COAX, is that correct? Will I also need to connect the CAT5 to the Mini, or will it get everything it needs thru Moca? Any benefit to connecting the Mini to CAT5? Thanks.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Correct. Connect coax and cat5 to the Plus, select "use this DVR to create a moca network" in the network settings. Connect coax to the Mini. That's all it needs.

The theoretical benefit of using cat5 with the Mini instead is that cat5 is faster than moca, but moca is more than fast enough to stream video too. Also, unless you have a POE filter installed, cat5 would be more secure. Since you have both options at the Mini's location, the choice is really all yours.


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## gedeyenite (Oct 12, 2004)

Good. I was hoping that was the case. I had been informed elsewhere that you had to have a 4x tuner, e.g., Roamio, Premiere, etc. glad to read a Premiere 2x can work.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

gedeyenite said:


> Good. I was hoping that was the case. I had been informed elsewhere that you had to have a 4x tuner, e.g., Roamio, Premiere, etc. glad to read a Premiere 2x can work.


You do need a Tivo with 4 or more tuners for the Mini to work.


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## Woodburner (Jan 4, 2014)

Hello this is my first post so sorry if a similar question has been asked. My cable modem router is upstairs in one room and my Tivo Roamio plus is downstairs in another room and the Mini is upstairs in another room. So how many Moca adapters will I need?


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## TivoQueensDad (Jan 24, 2005)

Woodburner said:


> Hello this is my first post so sorry if a similar question has been asked. My cable modem router is upstairs in one room and my Tivo Roamio plus is downstairs in another room and the Mini is upstairs in another room. So how many Moca adapters will I need?


You'll only need 1 adapter.

Cable modem - hook up to MOCA adapter
Tivo Roamio - built in MOCA adapter
Tivo Mini - built in MOCA adapter


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