# DirecTV "Upgrading" TiVo's to R-15's



## Rodney (Jan 26, 2002)

Anyone else have this issue come up?

I am moving, so I called up DirecTV to have them setup a dish at my new house, and the person on the line told me that the technician would also be bringing two new DVR's to replace my older ones. When I asked what type, she told me R-15's. I told her no way, I will stick with my TiVo's. She told me that this was a free service, but I said not unless they were HD DVR's. She said she would put a note in to tell the technician not to "upgrade" my Hughes and Phillips DVR's.
To me, this sounds like a way for DirecTV to migrate TiVo users to DirecTV's own system.
I don't like the feel of this. Will we soon be TiVo orphans?

-Rodney


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

Rodney said:


> Will we soon be TiVo orphans?


Well, if we are then DTV will become a 'more empty house' because I will go elsewhere if they try that with me. Operations at DTV should be a snap with fewer customers, no?


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## redwood (Mar 26, 2006)

> To me, this sounds like a way for DirecTV to migrate TiVo users to DirecTV's own system.


Here is what they are doing . DTV has started a lease plan . Anytime you get new equipment you get leased equipment . So that at any time you would have to return if it is turned off . They tried that with me when my Hughes went out. I wouldn't let them . Because their are things that you could do on Tivo that you just can't do on the DTV R15 . They were better off when they used Tivo . The only good thing about them is that you can leave it paused for 90 min . And it does have caller ID . But if Im not mistaken there is a way that you can get caller id on you tivo . Don't remember where that was at .


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## wakaimono (Apr 4, 2006)

We have an older DTV Tivo receiver (35 hours). We ran into difficulty tyring to get the thing to dial on a VoIP phone line. Took too long to get to the list and other features were slow. Because of that we took the upgrade to the R15. Since then I have called DTV for numerous recording issues, had the receiver replaced once and have as of tonight had our old Tivo receiver re-connected. We were given an option to purchase an R10 and DTV would reimburse up to $150 of the cost in account credits. Aggravates that the R15 is junk.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

If they try this when I move in June, I will just cancel, pay any cancellation fee, and get cable. I'm not using their R15 POS.


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## redwood (Mar 26, 2006)

You can upgrade your memory and get that thing to run over your internet instead of going through the phone system that you have . Try looking in the help section here or the undergroung I m pretty sure if you dont know how they can walk up through it there.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

redwood said:


> You can upgrade your memory and get that thing to run over your internet instead of going through the phone system that you have . Try looking in the help section here or the undergroung I m pretty sure if you dont know how they can walk up through it there.


To upgrade the memory in a DirecTiVo you have to do surface mount soldering and it does not improve performance. I'm not sure what this have to with this thread. I am also not sure what the phone line has to do with this thread.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

Arcady said:


> I they try this when I move in June, I will just cancel, pay any cancellation fee, and get cable. I'm not using their R15 POS.


What a bummer for DIRECTV. 


Have you ever tried using an R15 or is it a POS based on what others have said ?


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

redwood said:


> You can upgrade your memory and get that thing to run over your internet...


Bah. Has nothing to do with it.

You can run DTivos without a phone line connected if you are willing to put up with a once-per-day 'nag' screen, and also order your PPVs via your DirecTV web account instead of using the remote.

Some people have gone for 600+ days without the box calling in.

If you _hack_ your boxes they will never attempt to 'phone home'.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

Arcady said:


> If they try this when I move in June, I will just cancel, pay any cancellation fee, and get cable. I'm not using their R15 POS.





Stanley Rohner said:


> What a bummer for DIRECTV.
> 
> 
> Have you ever tried using an R15 or is it a POS based on what others have said ?


I can't talk for Arcady, but after spending a couple of hours on the other forum every week reviewing all of the posted problems and what appears to be a lack of constructive solutions, IMHO a good description of the state of the current OTHER DVR (aka R15) using a DirecTiVo as a frame of reference would be a POS.

Additional Edit:

And NO, I wouldn't buy one just to check it out. I'll let the other people go through the pain and report their problems on the other forum. I know that Earl has high hopes for the OTHER DVR and of course he is one of those eternal optimists (he thought that they would have all of the bugs cleaned up by the end of January, and it is now April).


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## profbobo (Sep 19, 2001)

Stanley Rohner said:


> What a bummer for DIRECTV.
> 
> 
> Have you ever tried using an R15 or is it a POS based on what others have said ?


Yes, I have. If youve ever used TiVo and like TiVo, then the R15 is a horrid machine.

I used to have a Sony T-60 and Philips DSR6000R. My wife and I used them for many years with no problems. The 35 hours started to get limited. My wife and I "upgraded" to something with more space and something with folders. I knew DirecTV cut ties with TiVo and the R15 is the direction they are going. Some of the features sounded great.

100 Hours, Picture-In-Menu, Free after rebate, Faster Navigation, Caller ID, 90 minute Buffer, Conflict managment choice.

We figured why not, lets get the R15. What a mistake.

We bought two R15 models at the end of January and sold the T-60 on eBay.

My wife and I finally gave up on the R15s over the weekend. We just got too frustrated watching TV. The R15 has to be checked every day to make sure your shows are in the To Do List.

I just tracked down two R10 models off eBay and can't wait for them arrive. WELCOME BACK TIVO, HOW I MISSED YOU!!!

Yes, there are R15 bugs that I believe will get fixed. However, here is the main reason that Im dumping the R15:

In my opinion, nearly every feature of the box is horribly implemented. Even if the bugs get fixed. I dont like the design decisions the engineers made.

Here is a partial list of things I hate about the R15.

1.	Too many confusing menus with dumb names to describe stuff. The Prioritizer. Thats stupid. Also, I find zero continuity from menu to menu.
2.	Its a crap shoot whether or not your show will record. I know thats a bug and should get fixed. But right now, I hate it.
3.	The Find By Auto Record absolutely does not work. (TiVo Auto Record Wishlist) I subscribe to NHL Center Ice and TiVo always auto recorded my games from a WishList. The R15 will look at all channels instead of the ones you receive for its Find By Auto Record. So it tried to record from the sports channels I dont get instead of NHL CI Channels.
4.	There is no way to set up a Series Link (TiVo Season Pass) for the same show title on two different channels. Seinfeld on TBS and local WB is not an option.
5.	The longer the recorded show, the worse the FF to Play responsiveness is. 30 minute shows seem to be no problem. But the FF/Play/Rewind features suck for a 2.5 hour hockey game.
6.	You lose the buffer when you watch a previously recorded show. 
7.	Only one buffer.
8.	I like the TiVo style guide better. Takes a while to view programs more than 2 or 3 hours in the future.
9.	If there is rain fade. The searching for satellite message shows up on all screens. Even if you are watching a previously recorded show.
10.	When you add a new Series Link (TiVo Season Pass), it adds it to the top of your Prioritizer List instead of the bottom.

I could go on and on and on. Hopefully you get the picture. I think if youve used TiVo and like TiVo, then youll hate this box even if the bugs get worked out. At least my wife and I hated it.

Now I just need to sell my R15s on eBay. If they sell. 

Joe


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## profbobo (Sep 19, 2001)

I will say kudos to DirecTV.
I called them with my R15 problems; how I was done with the box and going back to TiVo. 

The woman I spoke to in customer retention really helped me out and made things right in my opinion.

Joe


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Arcady said:


> If they try this when I move in June, I will just cancel, pay any cancellation fee, and get cable. I'm not using their R15 POS.


Seems drastic. Why not do what the OP did and just say no. Tell them you don't consider it an upgrade.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> Seems drastic. Why not do what the OP did and just say no. Tell them you don't consider it an upgrade.


Actually, I meant if they were to force R15's on me, I would leave. Hopefully, I will be able to keep all of my existing equipment, not have anything moved to a lease, and continue using my networked units for years to come.

If I use the mover's connection, will they try to lease the new dish to me? Or should I plan to climb up on the side of my house and pull down the dish I have now? I don't want that 5LNB monstrosity anyway - I have no plans to ever own a receiver that uses MPEG4.


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## jtb (Nov 20, 2002)

Cable is just waiting for you.Enjoy.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

jtb said:


> Cable is just waiting for you.Enjoy.


As much as we would like another choice of providers, in some areas cable is not an option.


> *Customers Complaining About Bright House Service*
> ORLANDO, Fla. -- Bright House Networks has 800,000 Central Florida customers and some are complaining about their service. Customers said they are having constant problems with their television connection.
> ...
> It doesn't seem to matter whether Bright House customers are watching Channel 9 Eyewitness News, South Park or The Sopranos. The picture pixelates. In other words, the video disintegrates into small cubes and the audio cuts out.
> ...


The joys of the sa8000 series of stb's....


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Arcady said:


> Actually, I meant if they were to force R15's on me, I would leave. Hopefully, I will be able to keep all of my existing equipment, not have anything moved to a lease, and continue using my networked units for years to come.
> 
> If I use the mover's connection, will they try to lease the new dish to me? Or should I plan to climb up on the side of my house and pull down the dish I have now? I don't want that 5LNB monstrosity anyway - I have no plans to ever own a receiver that uses MPEG4.


I'm not sure what they are doing. I bet they would try to sock you into a commitment with it. I'd grab my dish, take my receivers and forget the mover's connection. I never want those hacks touching my house anyway. The newer 5 lnb model isn't so bad and I wouldn't say never where better compression schemes might be available. We also never know for sure what PVR's will be in the marketplace down the road.

DTV won't force us out. They haven't with Ultimate TV and they won't with TiVo either. They'll look for attrition and strategic places to hasten that attrition (ie the OP's case) your current TiVo should be fine for it's life.


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## chris_h (Dec 17, 2003)

profbobo said:


> I could go on and on and on. Hopefully you get the picture. I think if youve used TiVo and like TiVo, then youll hate this box even if the bugs get worked out. At least my wife and I hated it.
> 
> Joe


Wow. Thanks for the warning. I had no plans to transition anyways, but I do field a lot of questions about D* here at work. Thanks for taking the time to relate your experiences. Yikes!


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## FlWingNut (Mar 4, 2005)

May I chime in? I have two D*Tivos and one of the "other" DVR. The other DVR does have its problems, most of which involve Series Link issues. That's why, for now, it's in the bedroom as the backup. I will say, however, the "other" DVR has many features I like better than those of the Tivo. I love the Picture-in-guide/menu feature -- had it on my UTV box and was stunned when I got a Tivo that the Tivo didn't have it. Caller ID onscreen, better, faster guide, faster search fucntions, an icon in the gudie that lets you know that a show is scheduled to record (ahead of time, not just the current time). The "other" DVR is a better box for watching live TV (yes I know, no one here watches live TV), but there's no question that RIGHT NOW the D*Tivo is the better box for reliable recording. I like both boxes, BTW, and wouldn't give up either one. Turn your nose up at the "other" box, if you like. It's your right -- but I've learned never to say never. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I happily own both. And I do think D* is working to fix those issues that concern those of us with the "other" DVR.

Plus it was free.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

Arcady said:


> - I have no plans to ever own a receiver that uses MPEG4.


So you don't think you'll ever own a high def TV for the rest of your life ?


I've seen pictures of the _5LNB monstrosity_ next to the 1 LNB dish. I don't think it looks to bad.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Stanley Rohner said:


> So you don't think you'll ever own a high def TV for the rest of your life ?


There are other sources for high definition television or digital television that do not use mpeg-4.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

OTA HD will be MPEG2 for quite some time.
Years and years, decades at least.


phox


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## redwood (Mar 26, 2006)

rminsk said:


> To upgrade the memory in a DirecTiVo you have to do surface mount soldering and it does not improve performance. I'm not sure what this have to with this thread. I am also not sure what the phone line has to do with this thread.


 The fella who started this tread ask about using voip with his dvr and they also asked about getting more memory instead of getting the dtv r15


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

redwood said:


> The fella who started this tread ask about using voip with his dvr and they also asked about getting more memory instead of getting the dtv r15


No mention of upgrading memory before your post...


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

Thanks for the report *profbobo*, I had to check twice that I wasn't reading about a Dish Network DVR!

I'll just keep my (hacked) DTivos; I'll leave the R15s to others.


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## redwood (Mar 26, 2006)

not tryin to argue but read the one after my first post . I have post a few on this tread . All i was doing is answering someones questions


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

The post after your first post does not mention memory at all. It mentions (indirectly as 35 hours) hard drive space but does not talk about memory or upgrading it.


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## redwood (Mar 26, 2006)

rminsk said:


> To upgrade the memory in a DirecTiVo you have to do surface mount soldering and it does not improve performance. I'm not sure what this have to with this thread. I am also not sure what the phone line has to do with this thread.


ok ill take that but you original argument was what does a phone line have to do with this thread .The upgrading was mostly just a suggestion to getting more memory that 35 hours like the r15


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

redwood said:


> ok ill take that but you original argument was what does a phone line have to do with this thread .The upgrading was mostly just a suggestion to getting more memory that 35 hours like the r15


To store more programs, you install a larger capacity _hard drive_, not more memory - they are two different things.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

goony said:


> To store more programs, you install a larger capacity _hard drive_, not more memory - they are two different things.


Hard drives are one kind of computer memory.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> Hard drives are one kind of computer memory.


The most common usage or the term memory is very fast storage which does not keep it's information when it's power is removed. Both memory and hard drives are a type of storage. Memory is typically considered primary storage where as a hard drive is considered secondary storage. When refering to a modern computer most people consider memory only volatile storage. No one I know of calls a hard drive the memory.


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## Hodaka (Mar 12, 2005)

rminsk said:


> The most common usage or the term memory is very fast storage which does not keep it's information when it's power is removed. Both memory and hard drives are a type of storage. Memory is typically considered primary storage where as a hard drive is considered secondary storage. When refering to a modern computer most people consider memory only volatile storage. No one I know of calls a hard drive the memory.


actually, I know plenty of people who call their hard drive memory. They're the same people that I practically make daily support visits to who call the computer case the "hard drive"... amongst other dumb things.. 

I've gotten to the point where I just don't even bother correcting them anymore..


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

Speaking of memory I forgot what this thread was originally about :-D


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## SpacemanSpiff (Jan 31, 2004)

Hodaka said:


> actually, I know plenty of people who call their hard drive memory. They're the same people that I practically make daily support visits to who call the computer case the "hard drive"... amongst other dumb things..
> 
> I've gotten to the point where I just don't even bother correcting them anymore..


Those are the same people who when you tell them to turn off their computer because it's locked up, turn off the monitor, turn it back on, and then say "it didn't do anything".


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## ScubaCat3 (May 19, 2005)

Hodaka said:


> actually, I know plenty of people who call their hard drive memory. They're the same people that I practically make daily support visits to who call the computer case the "hard drive"... amongst other dumb things..


Really? Over here they call the case the "CPU".


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## transpizzle (Nov 6, 2003)

They tried to tell me my old DirecTivo's weren't compatible with the 3LNB dish that I would have to have at my new house. I said "Funny, that's what they are on right now!" and she then said to bring my old Tivo's and all would be good. Idiot. My parent's get did get an R15 and it is HORRID! I'm having them get an R10 off of eBay.


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## tbsteph (Mar 8, 2003)

My Hughes DirecTV TIVO died about a week ago and was replaced with the R15. Must admit that the interface works somewhat differently and not always intuitive. However, I would not describe it as horrid just different. 

I'm not sure why some of you have expressed such dire threats if you were, in some way, forced to move from you TIVO box to the R15. It's just a piece of hardware that essentially does everything the TIVO box does plus a couple of things TIVO doesn't. Do I miss my dead TIVO, yes. But, what I miss is not the "enhanced" functionality because there isn't any. What I miss is my comfort with the menus, remote etc.


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## mjpyro (Apr 14, 2006)

I'm a new DirecTV customer (former cable customer with a SA Tivo box) as of last Thursday and I did get one of the R15s. I must agree with many of the following complaints on a previous post in this thread, specifically these from his list:

1. Too many confusing menus with dumb names to describe stuff. _I agree. I never had to read the manual to learn how to do anything on Tivo. With the R15, I've been over it several times to figure out how to do things._

2. Its a crap shoot whether or not your show will record. _YES! The Series Link (TiVo Season Pass) seems to be particularly bad on the R15. Even though you select to record "first run" episodes, it appears to randomly record them all no matter if you select first run, repeats, or both. As of now, I'm having to go through the Channel Guide and make sure the things I want to record have a big "R" next to them. That's a true hassle. I have zero confidence in the Series Link though. _

AND

10. When you add a new Series Link (TiVo Season Pass), it adds it to the top of your Prioritizer List instead of the bottom. _Very Annoying. If you think about it, you are naturally going to enter your favorites things first, but as you add other things, they constantly get pushed to the bottom of the priority list. As a software developer, I can tell you that this (among several other things) represents horrible software design._

It's getting easier to use the more I use it, and I'm sure they will continue to work out the bugs in the software, but my advice ... if you do happen to have an integrated DirecTV/Tivo receiver, hold on to it as long as you can.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

DTV gives us channel 1000 to learn how to use many features on the R15. 

Does anyone know what channel they dedicate to learn how to use a Tivo based IRD?

Tick

Tick

Tick

Didn't think so.

My mother who could never set a 'timer record' on a VCR had Tivo figured out in about 15 minutes.

Before I get flamed, yes I have both. Got the R15 for free. There are some nice features that Tivo does not have. Unfortunately at this point, as far as reliability, Tivo is still winning by a landslide.


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## Corran Horn (Feb 12, 2002)

I just did the Mover's whatever from DirecTV on my move from FL to IL. They didn't say a thing about my receivers at all. The only thing that came up was the installer lamenting the fact that the Tivo receivers take longer to spin up than the R15's. 

My DirecTivo is up and running with no problems at all, from me or DirecTV.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

codespy said:


> DTV gives us channel 1000 to learn how to use many features on the R15.
> 
> Does anyone know what channel they dedicate to learn how to use a Tivo based IRD?
> 
> ...


prior to the launch of the dtv dvr it was there for tivo.


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## richardmb (Oct 21, 2004)

It's such a shame, can't anyone del. a piece of equipment that really works the way you want it to. You hear about the lousy r15's the horrible E* drv's and also the cable dvr's. I had cable with an sa tivo, liked the tivo hated the cost and quality of cable. Moved to D* and got the r10 loved the duel turner, hate not having the same features as the sa However for me the r10 works fine . wish I had all the tivo features but what can you do. Wait and hope D* enable 's more features .


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## extension 721 (Sep 29, 2005)

r-15 ain't bad, but my beeeeg question is why they don't do PIP on it, like on the old Ultimate TV box....which, BTW, had HORRIBLE menus.

R15 is a bit faster b/c it uses firmware for things the TIVO uses hard drive for. Hopefully, they'll work TOGETHER to have a Combo unit that outstrips TIVO -and- directv's valliant attempt at a DVR.

Insofar as the software versions, DirecTv blames Tivo and Tivo blames DirecTv.

The real story: neither company wanted to spend money on software development for a unit that was not completely theirs, and also neither company wanted to have to get approval for every change from the other. (avoid quibbling)

D* didn't want their "superior picture", especially pay-per-views available on the internet (direct digital is better than converted digital) as a HMO-based telecast. That would anger their broadcasters.

and Tivo wanted to have something that no-one else had, and giving D* ALL the features of a tivo with 1/6 of the revenue (or less) going to Tivo, inc. would leave Tivo mostly productless and eventually probably make Tivo a D* slave.

DirecTv should just buy Tivo, and make the units better and more reliable, and lease-only...

The real good of the lease program is that D* can now afford to make more expensive, more reliable units, because they are no longer giving them away for free. Will they?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

extension 721 said:


> rR15 is a bit faster b/c it uses firmware for things the TIVO uses hard drive for.


How do you know that? What does it do in firmware?


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## Agrajag (Sep 8, 2001)

ScubaCat3 said:


> Really? Over here they call the case the "CPU".


By the way, these are the same people that posters here think will have no problem setting up TiVo's HMO. Yeah, right....



> DirecTv should just buy Tivo, and make the units better and more reliable, and lease-only...


Been wishing for that for years now. Especially given the new deal and the Echostar loss, I'd make these guys an offer they can't refuse. Why let Comcast and others possibly consider doing the same thing? If REAL TiVo features end up with someone other than DirecTV, DirecTV's PVR will always pale in comparison. As I've said before, a PVR that cannot track a program that changes nights, times or program length is an incomplete, annoying product. That one feature is worth the investment. Unless they can find a way around the patent to get it, it's going to be a painful lesson to learn.


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