# Another TiVo competitor.



## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

http://www.whitemantechnology.com/

Should be interesting to see what they have and at what price?


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Nothing much is known yet except that it will be expensive if it is ever actually available to purchase.


----------



## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Same Windows platform as Ceton... who's been doing CableCARDs with MCE for awhile and has a tight relationship with Microsoft. So I'd put my money on Echo before Delta. But who knows. (And funny how they trumped 'echo' with 'delta')


----------



## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Windows Media Center, no thank you!


----------



## awsnyde (May 11, 2007)

From the Basics page: "...we do take the DVR capability serious." But apparently not the high-school grammar lessons.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Without pricing the information on this DVR is somewhat useless.


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

lessd said:


> Without pricing the information on this DVR is somewhat useless.


We know it will be expensive and only has to be competitive with similar products to compete in whatever market exists for a high priced DVR/Media Center. A new member signed up at Google TV Forums named Ryan Whiteman and made this post in response to a question in a thread I started there about the Whiteman Technology Delta DVR.



> We do plan on pricing this "competitively" with "comparable" devices.
> 
> Browser -Of course
> 
> ...


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

http://www.whitemantechnology.com/

I'll bet it's made mostly with Asianman Technology.



(okay, asianperson)


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Looks like a great concept -- which is about all you see on the web site.

I'd be much more excited by a box that had just the functionality of my TiVo HD but was reliable, i.e., didn't have to use a Tuning Adapter, which is a major pain on TWC.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Looks like a great concept -- which is about all you see on the web site.
> 
> I'd be much more excited by a box that had just the functionality of my TiVo HD but was reliable, i.e., didn't have to use a Tuning Adapter, which is a major pain on TWC.


How would that work? You would need a box from that specific cable provider to avoid having to use a tuning adapter.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

It was unclear to me if this was a cable only, OTA only, or cable & OTA DVR did anyone see where that was defined? In any event the price is what really matters. If it ends up under $1000 it might be a better deal than a TiVo Elite with lifetime and a separate blu-ray player. I just wonder how many people either have nothing now or would be willing to replace what they have with a high end product from a new company. 

However there are still the same old problems in that it will not work with satellite and cable users will still have to deal with cable cards and tuning adapters.


----------



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> It was unclear to me if this was a cable only, OTA only, or cable & OTA DVR did anyone see where that was defined? In any event the price is what really matters. If it ends up under $1000 it might be a better deal than a TiVo Elite with lifetime and a separate blu-ray player. I just wonder how many people either have nothing now or would be willing to replace what they have with a high end product from a new company.
> 
> However there are still the same old problems in that it will not work with satellite and cable users will still have to deal with cable cards and tuning adapters.


As someone else mentioned, I would stick with Ceton. I would not put money into a startup company's product unless it was something totally new and did not require ongoing support. Even Paul Allen couldn't make a go with Moxi, I doubt an untested company will.

At least we know Ceton Corp is likely to be around a while.


----------



## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

Can you say "vaporware"?


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> How would that work? You would need a box from that specific cable provider to avoid having to use a tuning adapter.


Yep, that problem won't go away until we get a two-way standard over IP.

Hello, AllVid! <not>


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

After spending a lot of money and using a lot of different boxes to make cutting the cord work for me, this type of box is sure something I would have been interested in before I did all of that.


----------



## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Delta DVR stores 3TB using Windows Media Center

Read more: http://www.electronista.com/article...3tb.using.windows.media.center/#ixzz1sbGKXxKx


----------



## rhettf (Apr 5, 2012)

I think its not the right idea. I find it so infuriating how people get pissed Tivo has a service fee but really the reason behind it (IMO) is that TiVo knew it couldn't sell its boxes at $800 dollars a pop so instead they said If we cut the price in half and charge a fee more people can get their hands on it, and if people want to buy it flat out they can. 

This new DVR will cost around the same as a Tivo Elite with Lifetime (also what the cost of the Moxi box was). So fairly been nearly impossible to break into a market when your only version of your product retails at 800+ bucks (Ceton is making it but they are only now starting to get into the actual STB biz).

I always hear someone say I would buy a TiVo if they didn't have a service fee. TiVo might call half of your payment as a service fee but really the cost a Tivo + Service is on par with any high end DVR. I use to have a HTPC and its really not anywhare close to TiVo's ease of use. You gotta worry about god damn viruses and everything else a PC does.

I figured the Service Fee allows people to upgrade every two years. I payed for a service fee while I had a 2 tuner DVR but after the price drop on the Elite and the rollout Xfinity onDemand I decided to buy the a new box flat out. Why? My monthly bills dropped by $40! (I was paying TiVo 20 a month and Comcast 20 a month just to watch onDemand) 

I just got my new bill from comcast at it dropped from 174 to 154! In less than two years I will be saving big time. I also believe it will last much longer because we are at the pinnacle of this generation of TVs. When I get TV that has 4 or 6K in 4 years it might be time for a new TiVo (that is if cable companies can send us 4K content by then) 

Tivo allows me to actually take advantage of all the content I pay for, why buy the disc when I can save 460 hours of HD content.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

dlfl said:


> Looks like a great concept -- which is about all you see on the web site.
> 
> I'd be much more excited by a box that had just the functionality of my TiVo HD but was reliable, i.e., didn't have to use a Tuning Adapter, which is a major pain on TWC.


'Ain't gonna happen, at least not successfully. No one in their right mind is going to buy a DVR that only works with a fraction of CATV systems, or try to figure out which model they need to buy based upon their CATV provider, and anyone who does is going to be livid when they move or their provider hops vendors and their DVR no longer works.


----------



## larrs (May 2, 2005)

So we end up with a computer DVR based on Windows Embeded, which I assume means updates, apps, etc.will be handled by the company (like Tivo does) rather than by the user as one would be able to do with their own pC based DVR. So, will it have a service fee or will updates and apps cost money at the Whiteman store (or Ceton for that matter)? If not, what would make them keep the updates coming?

Also, what about all the restrictions the unit now would have to play by because it holds a Blu Ray player? That would include how it would play various video and audio codecs, DRM, etc.

This could potentially be a big mess that they don't have to deal with on a PC based card they currently distribute.


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

What I would want is a device that Hulu and various other sites blocking streaming media players recognize as a PC and Vudu recognizes as a licensed HDX streaming media player. It is probably not possible so no one box works for my needs, I can't stream Vudu HD or HDX using my PC and can't stream Hulu and quite a number of sites requiring a PC using a streaming media player. With several boxes, I have everything I want covered but it is a cluttered solution. Oh yeah, it also needs to include a DVR as good as TiVo.


----------



## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

Worth noting from Microsoft's Windows 8 communication, Windows Media Center will no longer be included. Windows Media Center will be available as an economical &#8220;media pack&#8221; add-on to Windows 8 Pro.


----------



## GoEagles (Dec 2, 2006)

The only *good* thing about Media Center PCs is that at least if another platform comes out, i.e, Windows 7 --> Windows 8, that can usually be supported. If you have a Series 3 Tivo, and the next platform comes out (i.e., Series 4), nothing really comes out new for you. If you could transfer your $499 PLS for let's say half of the price, I would buy new TiVo hardware all the time. Just my .02. I am really happy with TiVo now though.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

GoEagles said:


> The only *good* thing about Media Center PCs is that at least if another platform comes out, i.e, Windows 7 --> Windows 8, that can usually be supported. If you have a Series 3 Tivo, and the next platform comes out (i.e., Series 4), nothing really comes out new for you. If you could transfer your $499 PLS for let's say half of the price, I would buy new TiVo hardware all the time. Just my .02. I am really happy with TiVo now though.


With lifetime on the box you can buy new TiVo hardware when it comes out. You sell the old hardware to cover 80% to 100% of the cost of the new TiVo with lifetime service. A TiVo with lifetime service has an excellent resale value.
This has worked well for me. I upgrade when a new model is released. My out of pocket costs ends up being zero or very minimal.


----------



## tomm1079 (May 10, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> With lifetime on the box you can buy new TiVo hardware when it comes out. You sell the old hardware to cover 80% to 100% of the cost of the new TiVo with lifetime service. A TiVo with lifetime service has an excellent resale value.
> This has worked well for me. I upgrade when a new model is released. My out of pocket costs ends up being zero or very minimal.


i realized this with series 3 to 4 transition. I sold 2 different tivo hd's for 400 each and got 2 premiere's


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> With lifetime on the box you can buy new TiVo hardware when it comes out. You sell the old hardware to cover 80% to 100% of the cost of the new TiVo with lifetime service. A TiVo with lifetime service has an excellent resale value.
> This has worked well for me. I upgrade when a new model is released. My out of pocket costs ends up being zero or very minimal.


This has worked for years, I sold my Series 1 with Lifetime for some $320 (I paid only $199 for the Lifetime on the early Series 1s) for the Series 2 and it has been this way for each model change..so far, cost to upgrade has been low (in some cases even negative, I made mony), BUT one does have to go through the trouble of E-Bay selling, and some people don't want that hassle.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

lessd said:


> This has worked for years, I sold my Series 1 with Lifetime for some $320 (I paid only $199 for the Lifetime on the early Series 1s) for the Series 2 and it has been this way for each model change..so far, cost to upgrade has been low (in some cases even negative, I made mony), BUT one does have to go through the trouble of E-Bay selling, and some people don't want that hassle.


The only reason it works is because the new hardware usually costs less than the old, which you likely paid a much higher premium for. You're basically selling the lifetime service at a discount, based on current prices, and giving the box away for free. You may have gotten the lifetime service at a lower price but the combined total for the Tivo with lifetime was probably more than what you'd pay today, except perhaps for an Elite plus lifetime.



rifleman69 said:


> Windows Media Center, no thank you!


Works great for me (and lots of other folks, too). It's the best thing to come out of Redmond in a very long time, IMHO. Far more versatile than any Tivo and customizable to look any way you want and do everything a Tivo can do and do it better.

FYI - Here's a link to a thread over at the AVSForm started by Ryan Whiteman of Whiteman Technologies discussing his DVR:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1406244


----------

