# Does the Premiere still lag?



## benraymond (Mar 31, 2008)

So, I have a series 3 and I am happy. I am going to add another TV in my office and am wondering about the Premiere box. When I read the initial reviews of the device, I was very turned off - none of the features I wanted, and significant UI lag issues, which I know would drive me nuts. 

So, has the software updates fixed this at all? Are the boxes any faster?


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

Mine has never lagged for me. The HD Interface runs just as fast as the SDUI. Every once and awhile the discovery bar will take a extra second or two to appear but that does not slow me down or bother me.

Over all I am very happy with my premiere and have no complaints.


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## Jonathan316 (Jan 4, 2004)

Our Premiere has always created a tangible lag in menu operations, unsure why it would be different for LoREvanescence. In HD menus the lag can make menu displays and interactions take up to twice at long (it seems) at times. It does seem to have gotten better with software updates, at least the HD menus have not frozen our Premiere for many months now. Other parts of it are downright clunky, like the Netflix player on the Premiere (well covered in other threads).

But even with the lag and quirks we still like the Premiere more than my previous series 2 and 3 boxes. For us the #1 drawback to the Premiere is the cable card requirement. We know and understand the "why?" of them, just don't like anything that requires the cable company to come inside our house, and gives a single point of failure like that. If your older Tivo 2 or 3 pooped out for some reason or needed a cleaning or whatever, you could just bypass it and leave the TV on.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

I keep mine in the SDUI .My has some lag when using the HDUI and every once in awhile it reboots for no reason. In SDUI in the morning when I first turn on the tv the premiere will be at the thx screen or the dancing tivo guy. I just press any button to take me to the tivo menu. This is with the latest update.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

benraymond said:


> So, I have a series 3 and I am happy. I am going to add another TV in my office and am wondering about the Premiere box. When I read the initial reviews of the device, I was very turned off - none of the features I wanted, and significant UI lag issues, which I know would drive me nuts.
> 
> So, has the software updates fixed this at all? Are the boxes any faster?


OMG, won't anyone read through the threads first before starting new threads?

Yes, there is still lag in the HDUI. And hundreds of postings from people who complain about it (including some from me).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473174&highlight=lag
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=470318&highlight=lag
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=470392&highlight=lag
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=463791&highlight=lag
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=463854&highlight=lag
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=471855&highlight=performance
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=472934&highlight=performance
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=472091&highlight=performance
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=470916&highlight=performance
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=470463&highlight=performance


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

The HDUI lags for me. I just use the SDUI.


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## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

I guess I'm just lucky then.

The only problem I have ever experienced was in the couple weeks after 14.8 rolled out until the patch. I had the stops responding to remote bug 3 times.

But other then that, I never have had freezes, reboots, the hdui runs perfectly. I have had me premiere for like 15 months now I think. Pretty sure it was april right after the release in march that I got it.


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## steinbch (Nov 23, 2007)

benraymond said:


> So, has the software updates fixed this at all? Are the boxes any faster?


If you are concerned about the lag and speed, I suggest investing in the Slide Remote...yes, I know that you shouldn't NEED to spend extra to make the Premiere work well; however, the Slide Remote makes my Premiere MUCH, MUCH more responsive.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

Not much lag for me in HDUI for me either. It's not super snappy, but not frustratingly slow.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Well if you need a new TiVo I would recommend getting a Premiere and I would recommend paying for lifetime service. Should cost you something around $500 depending on where you buy your Premiere. 

Regarding if the HDUI "lags" or not, I guess that depends on what you are comparing it to. It is not as fast as the SDUI on the Premiere. It loads lots of graphics and other stuff from the Internet and well that just isn't ever going to be as fast as using a text based menu system. 

If you will find the HDUI unacceptably slow or not will end up being a personal thing - just like if you actually find it to be more useful than the SDUI or not.

For me I did not find the HDUI too slow, but I did find it to be pointless and prefer the SDUI which is pretty much like the UI on your Series 3 only faster. 

Good Luck,


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

steinbch said:


> If you are concerned about the lag and speed, I suggest investing in the Slide Remote...yes, I know that you shouldn't NEED to spend extra to make the Premiere work well; however, the Slide Remote makes my Premiere MUCH, MUCH more responsive.


What does the remote have to do with the UI lagging?


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## steinbch (Nov 23, 2007)

I feel that navigation is snappier when using the Slide Remote. Yes, it doesn't help at all with the screen refreshing, but there is enough of a delay decrease in misc. operations that trying to use the regular remote makes me want to pull my hair out.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

DaveWhittle said:


> Not much lag for me in HDUI for me either. It's not super snappy, but not frustratingly slow.


That all depends on the individual. Everyone has their own patience levels and expectations. Speed perception will vary also depending on which DVR's and other electronics that person has used in the past.

That said, to me, the HDUI is frustratingly slow but also irritating in design. Even the SDUI is annoyingly slow at redrawing screens, but it is usable and MUCH faster than the HDUI. The SDUI is about the same speed as my HD was. ANYTHING slower than the SDUI is a major downgrade to me.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

steinbch said:


> I feel that navigation is snappier when using the Slide Remote. Yes, it doesn't help at all with the screen refreshing, but there is enough of a delay decrease in misc. operations that trying to use the regular remote makes me want to pull my hair out.


Correct. The Slide remote shaves a small fraction of a second off the remote response time, but it is still noticeable. It does not affect or change the UI speed- which, overall, remains sub-par at best to me.


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## benraymond (Mar 31, 2008)

"OMG, won't anyone read through the threads first before starting new threads?"


Read through a fair amount of the threads - perhaps I didn't use the search as diligently as I could have. Many of the threads were very early reviews of the box; I was wondering if software updates have improved the situation.

I already have the slide remote which seems to slow down the UI in the series 3....


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

benraymond said:


> I already have the slide remote which seems to slow down the UI in the series 3....


That is strange. The Slide should not affect the UI at all- it certainly doesn't on the Premiere. What it is does is enable the TiVo Premiere to respond to a keypress a fraction of a second faster because the bluetooth signal can be decoded faster than an IR signal.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

Or, you could just get an iPad and control it with that. That should remove most of the UI rendering load from the Tivo.


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## rblum (Sep 11, 2009)

What I found out when I switched from Time Warner to FiOS is that the upgrade in Internet speed from Roadrunner Turbo to FiOS 25/25 changed the responsiveness of the HD menu by a lot. It's now about the same as SD to my senses. If local memory was used and software properly implemented, it seems to me that it shouldn't be that way, but it is.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

rblum said:


> What I found out when I switched from Time Warner to FiOS is that the upgrade in Internet speed from Roadrunner Turbo to FiOS 25/25 changed the responsiveness of the HD menu by a lot. It's now about the same as SD to my senses. If local memory was used and software properly implemented, it seems to me that it shouldn't be that way, but it is.


You seem to be suggesting that it is fetching content over the Internet, that is the only way it would be affected by the speed of that connection.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

rblum said:


> What I found out when I switched from Time Warner to FiOS is that the upgrade in Internet speed from Roadrunner Turbo to FiOS 25/25 changed the responsiveness of the HD menu by a lot. It's now about the same as SD to my senses. If local memory was used and software properly implemented, it seems to me that it shouldn't be that way, but it is.


I have a verified 35Mb/s download speed and over 12Mb/s upload speed on my extremely reliable cable modem service. The HDUI is much, much, much slower than the SDUI. FIOS 25/25 isn't going to make any difference compared to that. I question your senses


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## rblum (Sep 11, 2009)

danjw1 said:


> You seem to be suggesting that it is fetching content over the Internet, that is the only way it would be affected by the speed of that connection.


No doubt about it. All the graphics come over the net. Based upon my observations, it doesn't appear that they are cached very effectively.


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## rblum (Sep 11, 2009)

crxssi said:


> FIOS 25/25 isn't going to make any difference compared to that. I question your senses


I questioned it too  As I said in another thread, it was shocking, the difference. If not the net speed, the cable modem? Honestly, it is as similar to the SD menu as I can tell w/o timing things somehow. I did not see that coming.


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## rasmasyean (Jul 29, 2011)

I just got a TiVo from RCN and I though I had a defective product. I haven't even used this that much and I noticed that this UI kinda sucks. Sometimes when searching, it would pause for many seconds. And when scrolling through like Youtube results it would pause for many seconds as well. It doesn't even give you an hourglass so you're not sure if it crashed or something. You can "escape" by pressing the TiVo button at least if you don't want to wait, but that kind of defeats the purpose of it.


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## rasmasyean (Jul 29, 2011)

danjw1 said:


> You seem to be suggesting that it is fetching content over the Internet, that is the only way it would be affected by the speed of that connection.


I've actually noticed that it lags (often like up to a minute) when I'm just browsing On Demand movie titles. It seems unrelated to the internet connection and is just some menu performance thing. It's really bad. And I'm just using the SD menu.


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## rasmasyean (Jul 29, 2011)

danjw1 said:


> Or, you could just get an iPad and control it with that. That should remove most of the UI rendering load from the Tivo.


In THIS day and age, you should have been able to build a Core i7 computer with a "cablecard pci card" and make your own "TiVo". Except, the big corporations say they want to put locks on the hardware because of "copyrights, etc.". I mean like HELLO...if someone really wants to copy some protected crap, they'll find a way to do it regardless. They just want to continue a stanglehold on the industry and sell garbage products as long as they can. I'm sorry, but this "oh so great TiVo staple word" is pissing me off and I've only had it for 2 days. :down:


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

rasmasyean said:


> In THIS day and age, you should have been able to build a Core i7 computer with a "cablecard pci card" and make your own "TiVo". Except, the big corporations say they want to put locks on the hardware because of "copyrights, etc.". I mean like HELLO...if someone really wants to copy some protected crap, they'll find a way to do it regardless. They just want to continue a stanglehold on the industry and sell garbage products as long as they can. I'm sorry, but this "oh so great TiVo staple word" is pissing me off and I've only had it for 2 days. :down:


Actually, you can, but it would be a PCI-Express card. You can get an HD Tuner card for a PC that will take a CableCard. They do exist. If you would rather rely on Microsoft Media Center then Tivo, you shouldn't have a problem doing that. A quick web search came up with this. If that is the route you want, go for it.


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## rasmasyean (Jul 29, 2011)

danjw1 said:


> Actually, you can, but it would be a PCI-Express card. You can get an HD Tuner card for a PC that will take a CableCard. They do exist. If you would rather rely on Microsoft Media Center then Tivo, you shouldn't have a problem doing that. A quick web search came up with this. If that is the route you want, go for it.


That does look kind of appealing I guess. I remember looking into this a while back and there were a few "media center PC's" licensed to do this and they costed a fortune. And in there they did some form of "digital rights management". And on top of that, I think cablecard's didn't support On-Demand or something like that.


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## rasmasyean (Jul 29, 2011)

Just to get a comparable reference...how much "menu lag" do some of you get? 

I normally get around 25 to 50 seconds lag every 30 seconds or so of browsing. When the lag stops, the buttons I pressed apparently queue up and bombard the menu navigation. If I press "right" a couple of times, it actually goes in to play the movie in the OD menu.

Is this pretty much around the "normal behavior" of a TiVo box?


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## gtaylor (Jan 8, 2002)

rasmasyean said:


> In THIS day and age, you should have been able to build a Core i7 computer with a "cablecard pci card" and make your own "TiVo". Except, the big corporations say they want to put locks on the hardware because of "copyrights, etc.". I mean like HELLO...if someone really wants to copy some protected crap, they'll find a way to do it regardless. They just want to continue a stanglehold on the industry and sell garbage products as long as they can. I'm sorry, but this "oh so great TiVo staple word" is pissing me off and I've only had it for 2 days. :down:


Then return it.

End of story.

gary


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## rasmasyean (Jul 29, 2011)

OK, I found the source of the "menu lag". And it does seem to be network related. Smooth operation requires a very low-latency connection. i.e. it has to be able to communicate and get data from TiVo's servers instantly.

I got a hold of a long axe CAT5 cable and wired the TiVo to my router and the menu doesn't really lag anymore.

*This is the way it apparently works...*

Some of TiVo's menus are not stored on the unit. It is retrieved from TiVo's servers *on-the-fly*. And to top things off, they aren't cached. So for many menus it will lag if you have a low latency (bad wireless) connection...even if you navigate the same menu parts over and over again. It's like a web page that reloads every single time you visit it.

For my particular case, RCN's cablecard apparently does not by itself enable VOD and PPV. So I guess the RCN TiVo unit is programmed to fetch menu parts when you navigate the RCN VOD menu...over and over again on-the-fly. I found this out when I unhooked the network and the RCN VOD menu no longer was accessible.

Now I understand this type of lag when you navigate "Youtube" or some internet database but even in this circumstance, TiVo programmers should include some sort of "fetching icon" or something rather then make it look like it's hanging. Especially since so many ppl are using wireless connections or don't have super high reliability broadband. And you can even fetch things in anticipation, like a few more results past the scroll limit. But a cable company's menus should be PUSHED to all fielded units and stored in the unit's database. I mean all you need is a few "new movies", "removed movies", and "updated movies" (which is rare because that's only needed if they made a mistake) done at midnight or whenever the cable company refreshes their VOD listings. If it could be done this way on the old Motorola HDDVR units, it could be done on the TiVo. But for some strange reason, these programmers decided they want to fetch menu bits like web pages in a browser. This is very bad.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

rasmasyean said:


> OK, I found the source of the "menu lag". And it does seem to be network related. Smooth operation requires a very low-latency connection. i.e. it has to be able to communicate and get data from TiVo's servers instantly.
> I got a hold of a long axe CAT5 cable and wired the TiVo to my router and the menu doesn't really lag anymore.[...] But for some strange reason, these programmers decided they want to fetch menu bits like web pages in a browser. This is very bad.


I am glad you found the majority of your issue. Of course, we [many on the forum] already KNEW that wireless (and/or poor Internet connection) is the cause of many people's major issues with the HDUI. But even with a PERFECT connection to TiVo's servers, the HDUI performance still "lags" beyond what many of us would say is acceptable.

You are right that the Premiere depends FAR too much on a "live" connection in the HDUI, but that is not news to any of us, either


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## rasmasyean (Jul 29, 2011)

crxssi said:


> I am glad you found the majority of your issue. Of course, we [many on the forum] already KNEW that wireless (and/or poor Internet connection) is the cause of many people's major issues with the HDUI. But even with a PERFECT connection to TiVo's servers, the HDUI performance still "lags" beyond what many of us would say is acceptable.
> 
> You are right that the Premiere depends FAR too much on a "live" connection in the HDUI, but that is not news to any of us, either


Well, I kind of would understand it if it lags when you're browsing internet related content with lots of pictures and such, but for a cable's VOD menu??? That kind of shocked me I guess since it didn't seem to work that way with the older generic DVRs. I mean, programming it like this with a "live feed menu" for a normally static set of data is something perhaps only an intern would get away with. Heck, maybe they were just using "existing internet search software" with little modification for cable menus to cut some costs initially. But this apparently has been out for a while and they should have updated the firmware or whatever by now.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

rasmasyean said:


> I got a hold of a long axe CAT5 cable and wired the TiVo to my router and the menu doesn't really lag anymore.


Wired is ALWAYS better than wireless. Wireless is fine for laptops, but for any other device - especially those dealing with video, graphics, or applications like gaming (or apparently Tivo's HD menus) where latency are key, wired connections are the way to go.

This isn't unique to Tivo, either. In forums for the AppleTV where users are having issues, they are often surprised that switching to wired ethernet solves their problems.

Same for Roku, Xbox, PS3 - any place where you see people having issues with streaming of video or gaming - it's the same story over and over and over and over again.

*It's not a problem with the devices, it's a problem with wifi*. Wireless manufacturers marketing want everyone to believe that wireless and hard wired connections are the same - they aren't! Wireless may be convenient, but there is a price for that convenience and latency and throughput are two costs for the convenience of wireless.

Also with wireless, any other devices or wifi networks from your neighbors can affect your network and without some sophisticated gear there is going to be no way for you to ever detect it. The number of variables affecting your network performance go through the roof with wireless.

I'm not here to totally bash it - I'm using wifi right now on the laptop I'm typing on, after all. But it never ceases to amaze me the number of times people will (often grudgingly like it's an affront to their liberty or something) remove wireless from the equation and then are astonished when things work better. Well duh!


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