# Major update coming before July according to CNET



## GBK33

TiVo Stream 4K launched with problems, but a fix is coming
TiVo Stream 4K launched with problems, but a fix is coming

fair review and hope the update info is correct


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## cybergrimes

"The update will automatically select the HDR version as well as enable users to turn off the "always on" HDR effect."

Great


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## cwoody222

Title is a bit misleading.

They said they’d fix the HDR by the end of June.

While that’s a problem that’s affecting a lot of users, I don’t think I’d call it a “major update”. It’s a single bug fix.


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## BillyClyde

CNET said:


> The update will automatically select the HDR version as well as enable users to turn off the "always on" HDR effect.
> 
> TiVo's rep suggested that as a temporary fix users should choose HDR10 by default from the Stream's settings menu (Settings> Device Preferences>More> Screen Resolution> HDR10). TiVo also suggested users install Google's latest Android TV updates in the Play Store. We applied the HDR10 fix and found it worked on the Sony X950G, but not on the LG CX.


I said to do this over a month ago.


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## GBK33

Sorry, did not mean for it to be "fake news" title ;-) But I did take it to mean that there were multiple fixes coming. Just hope the timeline holds true


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## vurbano

good news


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## rczrider

I signed up for the beta after filling out the survey a week or two ago, but I returned my TS4K right at the 30-day mark because I didn't want to get stuck with it.

I got a beta notice through the portal (am I allowed to mention this?), but since I don't have the device, I obviously didn't accept it. I'm guessing the HDR "fix" (aka, letting users turn off the stupid thing) is part of the beta.

I'll be ordering another TS4K on or around (June 26?), toward the projected end of the current $50 promo. That'll give me another 30 days to play around with it, and TiVo 30 days to get their ducks in a row. If they can't do by mid-July, I consider it a lost cause and I'll just hold out for a Mi Stick or Google "Sabrina".


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## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> I'll be ordering another TS4K on or around (June 26?), toward the projected end of the current $50 promo. That'll give me another 30 days to play around with it, and TiVo 30 days to get their ducks in a row. If they can't do by mid-July, I consider it a lost cause and I'll just hold out for a Mi Stick or Google "Sabrina".


Good to see TiVo actively trying to squash the bugs in this product. But I don't know if they'll be able to raise the price soon, as they've said, to $70 with the new competition on the way.

It looks like the new Mi TV Stick is about to hit the market, priced at 39.95 euros in the EU. That translates into just under $45 US. It has the same specs as the TiVo Stream 4K -- same chipset, same 2 GB RAM, same 8 GB storage -- except it doesn't appear that the Mi TV Stick supports Dolby Vision. (They'd have to license that feature from Dolby and it would increase their costs.)

New Xiaomi Mi TV Stick will ship next month for under US$50; 4K HDR and Android TV dongle gains EEC certification too

And, as you mention, Google will sometime this year finally roll out their own Android TV dongle, code-named Sabrina. It looks to have almost the same chipset and specs, and will support Dolby Vision. I'm betting they won't price it any higher than $70, given that that's about the cost of the current Chromecast Ultra. But if the Mi TV Stick is only $45 or $50, they might have to price it at $60.


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## compnurd

Major update would be enabling play from tivo DVRs


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## rczrider

NashGuy said:


> It looks like the new Mi TV Stick is about to hit the market, priced at 39.95 euros in the EU. That translates into just under $45 US. It has the same specs as the TiVo Stream 4K -- same chipset, same 2 GB RAM, same 8 GB storage -- except it doesn't appear that the Mi TV Stick supports Dolby Vision. (They'd have to license that feature from Dolby and it would increase their costs.)
> 
> New Xiaomi Mi TV Stick will ship next month for under US$50; 4K HDR and Android TV dongle gains EEC certification too


I kept waiting to hear more about this, but then stopped checking. Good to hear there's an actual date in mind.

At $50, this will kill the TS4K, IMO. Literally the only advantage of the TS4K is the USB-C port (see EDIT 2) and folks are having a lot of trouble with it.

I guess some folks might care about Dolby Vision, but since virtually no TV currently available can make use of DV over what HDR10 (which is open-source) offers, it's a gimmick. And if a person happens to have a setup that _can_ make actual use of the advantages DV offers, they aren't quibbling about a $50 streaming dongle.

EDIT: Seems it's possible an FHD version with 1GB of RAM would be the $50 device, and a 4K device with 2GB would be a more expensive version. If that's the case, it's a pass for me and I'll take my chances with a TS4K at $50.

EDIT 2: the Mi Stick 4K might come with a USB-C power port and if that's the case, I would expect it to support power pass-through and more peripherals.


compnurd said:


> Major update would be enabling play from tivo DVRs


I really cannot understand why they didn't make this a key component in the first place. Timing and resources, maybe?


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## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> I kept waiting to hear more about this, but then stopped checking. Good to hear there's an actual date in mind.
> 
> At $50, this will kill the TS4K, IMO. Literally the only advantage of the TS4K is the USB-C port (see EDIT 2) and folks are having a lot of trouble with it.
> 
> I guess some folks might care about Dolby Vision, but since virtually no TV currently available can make use of DV over what HDR10 (which is open-source) offers, it's a gimmick. And if a person happens to have a setup that _can_ make actual use of the advantages DV offers, they aren't quibbling about a $50 streaming dongle.
> 
> EDIT: Seems it's possible an FHD version with 1GB of RAM would be the $50 device, and a 4K device with 2GB would be a more expensive version. If that's the case, it's a pass for me and I'll take my chances with a TS4K at $50.
> 
> EDIT 2: the Mi Stick 4K might come with a USB-C power port and if that's the case, I would expect it to support power pass-through and more peripherals.
> 
> I really cannot understand why they didn't make this a key component in the first place. Timing and resources, maybe?


Yeah, I saw the news today that you included in your first edit above. Not sure what Xiaomi is thinking by replacing their current 4K HDR Mi Box S, which sells for $50 at Walmart, with a stick that's only 1080p and also sells for $50. The Mi Box S even has 2 GB of RAM while this stick has only 1 GB. How is this inferior stick supposed to be more desirable if it's also $50? Never mind the fact that Roku and Amazon sell 4K HDR sticks for $50 (often on sale for less). If all you need is a 1080p streamer, the Fire TV Stick 1080p model is $40. I can't see anyone buying this. I mean, nothing Xiaomi comes out with is probably going to sell all that many units because they're an unknown brand, they don't really do any marketing, and they only seem to have US distribution in Walmart. And they're competing with two big boys, Roku and Amazon. If anyone is going to succeed in getting an Android TV device into a lot of homes, it's going to be Google.


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## Lend27

Is this HDR fix still coming by the end of June?


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## osu1991

Looks like integration with Tivo DVR's isn't in the works.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/hghdp6/tivo_stream_is_getting_hbo_max_integration/fw6ut9y

tivopm
1 hour ago
The TiVo Stream 4K capabilities and features were designed for the streaming player market. * The company has no plans to integrate connectivity to TiVo DVRs.*

We are working on software updates for the DVR itself. We'll likely have more news on that at some point.

In terms of the TiVo+ channels, would you want the ability to hide certain channels?


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## herbf

osu1991 said:


> Looks like integration with Tivo DVR's isn't in the works.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/hghdp6/tivo_stream_is_getting_hbo_max_integration/fw6ut9y
> 
> tivopm
> 1 hour ago
> The TiVo Stream 4K capabilities and features were designed for the streaming player market. * The company has no plans to integrate connectivity to TiVo DVRs.*
> 
> We are working on software updates for the DVR itself. We'll likely have more news on that at some point.
> 
> In terms of the TiVo+ channels, would you want the ability to hide certain channels?


Just goes to show how clueless the Mgmt or Engineering team at TiVo is these days. If they offered integration w/ TiVo DVR's I'm sure they could double the price of this stick, and some households may buy multiple sticks like they did w/ the Mini.

There is so little enhancement of the TiVo ecosystem in the past 5 years, and they are stripping off functionality that exists from older generations. Why did many of us invest in lifetime subscriptions, to loose access to things like Netflix on platforms that had it?


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## cwoody222

herbf said:


> There is so little enhancement of the TiVo ecosystem in the past 5 years


You mean, like an entire revamp of the entire UI?

Hydra came out less than 3 years ago.


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## NashGuy

herbf said:


> Just goes to show how clueless the Mgmt or Engineering team at TiVo is these days. If they offered integration w/ TiVo DVR's I'm sure they could double the price of this stick, and some households may buy multiple sticks like they did w/ the Mini.


There are relatively few households that own and use retail TiVo DVRs and would therefore be interested in using a TS4K as a Mini-type device in conjunction with their DVRs. Sure, if TiVo engineered that functionality into the TS4K, it would result in a few more sales but not enough to make the sort of difference the company needs for the TS4K to actually be successful.

I'd say they need this new device to sell way more units than the TiVo Roamio, TiVo Bolt or TiVo Edge have sold. The TS4K is dedicated to streaming, not traditional DVR functionality. It's aimed at a MUCH wider audience than TiVo's traditional product line. They didn't create it with the typical visitor to this forum in mind.


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## herbf

NashGuy said:


> It's aimed at a MUCH wider audience than TiVo's traditional product line.


2 years late and many dollars short. Chromecast, FireTV, Apple TV and Roku have owned this market for a few years already, not to mention the knockoffs coming from all over China. For Tivo to try and enter the market now, and not try to tie in its Legacy install base is foolish.



NashGuy said:


> It's aimed at a MUCH wider audience than TiVo's traditional product line.


Here again, TiVo has a name because of its Legacy user base, which they actively choose to ignore, which new to streaming user is going to consider TiVo over the many other robust offerings? Roku and Amazon are bundling a lot of content w/ their offerings, and what uniqueness is TiVo offering besides being a re-branded Chromecast / fireTV stick?!?!


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## mschnebly

NashGuy said:


> There are relatively few households that own and use retail TiVo DVRs and would therefore be interested in using a TS4K as a Mini-type device in conjunction with their DVRs. Sure, if TiVo engineered that functionality into the TS4K, it would result in a few more sales but not enough to make the sort of difference the company needs for the TS4K to actually be successful.
> 
> I'd say they need this new device to sell way more units than the TiVo Roamio, TiVo Bolt or TiVo Edge have sold. The TS4K is dedicated to streaming, not traditional DVR functionality. It's aimed at a MUCH wider audience than TiVo's traditional product line. They didn't create it with the typical visitor to this forum in mind.


I agree. There are so few using their DVR that it doesn't make sense for them to spend the time on it. I think this streamer is their fist step in dropping DVR sales. They'd rather sell a streamer to many many more folks who will buy one for every TV in the house. Upgrade them every couple of years and sell you several more.


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## mschnebly

By the way, if there is a major update coming before July they had better hurry.


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## rczrider

mschnebly said:


> I agree. There are so few using their DVR that it doesn't make sense for them to spend the time on it. I think this streamer is their fist step in dropping DVR sales. They'd rather sell a streamer to many many more folks who will buy one for every TV in the house. Upgrade them every couple of years and sell you several more.


You're not wrong, but I think what others are trying to point out is that it's too late, _especially_ if they're going to suck at it. If the Mi Stick TV 4K comes in at $50-60 - and maybe even Google Sabrina at $70-80 - the TS4K is done for. As others have noted, Amazon and Roku own the "cheap streamer" market. What differentiates the TS4K? At this point, its only value is in in being the first (major) S905Y2 on the market and for only $50. But it's plagued with bugs (which are largely self-created, IMO).

Don't get me wrong, I _want_ the TS4K to be successful. Amazon's Fire TV Sticks are "meh" at best and I hate Roku for a variety of reasons. A streamer running vanilla-ish Android TV would be perfect. But TiVo thought to itself "Hey, what if we dumb it down to the point that features are missing outright?" and managed to turn it into a disaster. They could have put in far less work and had far more success.


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## NashGuy

herbf said:


> 2 years late and many dollars short. Chromecast, FireTV, Apple TV and Roku have owned this market for a few years already, not to mention the knockoffs coming from all over China. For Tivo to try and enter the market now, and not try to tie in its Legacy install base is foolish.
> 
> Here again, TiVo has a name because of its Legacy user base, which they actively choose to ignore, which new to streaming user is going to consider TiVo over the many other robust offerings? Roku and Amazon are bundling a lot of content w/ their offerings, and what uniqueness is TiVo offering besides being a re-branded Chromecast / fireTV stick?!?!


TiVo has a name not because of their existing legacy _user base_ but because they were themselves an innovator and disruptor in TV technology back in 1999 when they introduced the original DVR. They're just trying to cash in on whatever familiarity and good will still exists among the general public for the TiVo brand with their new streamer.

Now, I didn't say that the TS4K is going to be a success for them. As you say, they're breaking into this market years too late. What I am saying is that tying the product to their legacy install base wouldn't be enough to help the product succeed if it wasn't going to any way because the legacy base is so small. And keep in mind that adding and supporting a feature like that has costs of its own. I assume TiVo did the math and decided it just doesn't make sense.


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## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> You're not wrong, but I think what others are trying to point out is that it's too late, _especially_ if they're going to suck at it. If the Mi Stick TV 4K comes in at $50-60 - and maybe even Google Sabrina at $70-80 - the TS4K is done for. As others have noted, Amazon and Roku own the "cheap streamer" market. What differentiates the TS4K? At this point, its only value is in in being the first (major) S905Y2 on the market and for only $50. But it's plagued with bugs (which are largely self-created, IMO).


What differentiates the TS4K is the TiVo Stream app that comes pre-loaded on it and is exclusive to the device. Sadly, from what I read on this forum, it doesn't sound like it does as good a job of aggregating, integrating and tracking content from various sources than the free ReelGood app for Android TV. It does include the free TiVo+ streaming channels (meh) and I suspect that the ad revenue that TiVo hopes to make from those channels, as well as the user data they collect throughout the Stream app, are the main ways TiVo aims to profit from the device. (I doubt they're making much, if any, profit on the hardware itself at $50. Maybe they get a kickback from Google for sales and subscriptions through the Google Play store that are initiated on the device? Not sure how Google handles the relationship with OEMs that license Android TV from them for retail devices.)

It sounds like TiVo is moving pretty quickly to squash their bugs on the TS4K. But they'll need to also improve the functionality of the TiVo Stream app if they want lots of folks to buy the device and regularly use the app. Frankly, I have a hard time seeing the TS4K breaking through with the public to the extent necessary for it to really take off. They need to advertise it more.


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## GBK33

They have advertised it, but have slowed down a bit. My guess is they are trying to fix the bugs first and then ramp advertising back up. They next big bug fix is supposed to be before July. Looks like they may miss that deadline. Something they have gotten good at.


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## Breadfan

mschnebly said:


> By the way, if there is a major update coming before July they had better hurry.


Considering this is the last day of June I don't think they are going to make it.


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## jaselzer

Tivo= Consistently inconsistent


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## BillyClyde

TiVo:

*T*ime
*i*s
*V*irtually
*o*bsolete


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## mschnebly

NashGuy said:


> What differentiates the TS4K is the TiVo Stream app that comes pre-loaded on it and is exclusive to the device. Sadly, from what I read on this forum, it doesn't sound like it does as good a job of aggregating, integrating and tracking content from various sources than the free ReelGood app for Android TV. It does include the free TiVo+ streaming channels (meh) and I suspect that the ad revenue that TiVo hopes to make from those channels, as well as the user data they collect throughout the Stream app, are the main ways TiVo aims to profit from the device. (I doubt they're making much, if any, profit on the hardware itself at $50. Maybe they get a kickback from Google for sales and subscriptions through the Google Play store that are initiated on the device? Not sure how Google handles the relationship with OEMs that license Android TV from them for retail devices.)
> 
> It sounds like TiVo is moving pretty quickly to squash their bugs on the TS4K. But they'll need to also improve the functionality of the TiVo Stream app if they want lots of folks to buy the device and regularly use the app. Frankly, I have a hard time seeing the TS4K breaking through with the public to the extent necessary for it to really take off. They need to advertise it more.


I have an Nvidia Shield too. I would have thought that Tivo could have put their app on android tv since it works pretty darn well and just have the Tivo part of it to have problems to work out. Why would they take away from the device so many of the settings? They could have just moved them to an advanced settings menu folder and warned folks to use at their own risk. I try these boxes and then I go back to my Apple TV 4k and appreciate how solid it is. Their TV app is getting better all the time.


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## NashGuy

mschnebly said:


> I have an Nvidia Shield too. I would have thought that Tivo could have put their app on android tv since it works pretty darn well and just have the Tivo part of it to have problems to work out. Why would they take away from the device so many of the settings? They could have just moved them to an advanced settings menu folder and warned folks to use at their own risk. I try these boxes and then I go back to my Apple TV 4k and appreciate how solid it is. Their TV app is getting better all the time.


Yeah, I've wondered too why TiVo doesn't roll out their TiVo Stream app, with TiVo+ content built-in, to other devices. Initially, I would've thought that they couldn't deep-link to content in other apps (e.g. Netflix, Hulu, etc.) unless it was on their own device. But that's apparently not true on Android TV, because ReelGood is doing it. They've released their app (which is similar to TiVo Stream but without TiVo+ or integration with Sling) on the Google Play Store and apparently any Android TV device, such as the Shield TV, can access it.

Yeah, I really like my Apple TV 4K too. Although I'm curious about trying out Google's upcoming Android TV device, assuming they really sweat the details and make it a polished product. Google has a pretty mixed track record in that regard, so we'll see...


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## vurbano

I hope HBOmax wasnt the "big" update. I have 4 of these devices and I will think that ethernet is working fine and then it will disconnect, or one wont connect at all, or when connected the Mbbs is 50-100 compared to 250 Mbps over wifi. Absolutely flakey. For now ethernet cables are disconnected until they fix their sh*t


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## reneg

Posted on Reddit by Tivopm - [Removed dead link]



> tivopm 7 points·2 hours ago
> 
> We're working hard on this and a number of other fixes we're trying to get into your hands ASAP. I'm really sorry for the delay here, but we ran into some snags. Please know we're pushing very hard and as soon as I have updates I'll let you know


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## jaselzer

Access to the web address is blocked


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## Alex_7

vurbano said:


> I hope HBOmax wasnt the "big" update. I have 4 of these devices and I will think that ethernet is working fine and then it will disconnect, or one wont connect at all, or when connected the Mbbs is 50-100 compared to 250 Mbps over wifi. Absolutely flakey. For now ethernet cables are disconnected until they fix their sh*t


I'm curious, what Ethernet adapter are you using?


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## vurbano

Alex_7 said:


> I'm curious, what Ethernet adapter are you using?


https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Ethernet-1000Mbps-Nintendo-Chromebook/dp/B00LLUEJFU


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## Alex_7

vurbano said:


> https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Ethernet-1000Mbps-Nintendo-Chromebook/dp/B00LLUEJFU


yeah I've seen people have issues with this adapter hub..troypoint on youtube mentions he does get the wired connection to work but its not reliable as it drops here and there, I think it might have to do with it having to work double by also having usb ports..or it might have to do with having AX88179+GL3520 chipset, who kinows.

I do know people are having more success with just a single ethernet adapter(no hubs)






https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MYTSN1...df6b143a119dc5ec39667&creativeASIN=B00MYTSN18


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## vurbano

Alex_7 said:


> yeah I've seen people have issues with this adapter hub..troypoint on youtube mentions he does get the wired connection to work but its not reliable as it drops here and there, I think it might have to do with it having to work double by also having usb ports..or it might have to do with having AX88179+GL3520 chipset, who kinows.
> 
> I do know people are having more success with just a single ethernet adapter(no hubs)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MYTSN1...df6b143a119dc5ec39667&creativeASIN=B00MYTSN18


I think I am at the point where its just not worth it. I dont believe anyone knows what works for sure except the sandisk cruiser glide 128Gb flash drive over usb-c. Luckily the wifi on the 4K is outstanding. really no need for the ethernet i suppose. so for now i will disconnect the ethernet until tivo fixes their sh*t


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## moyekj

Alex_7 said:


> yeah I've seen people have issues with this adapter hub..troypoint on youtube mentions he does get the wired connection to work but its not reliable as it drops here and there, I think it might have to do with it having to work double by also having usb ports..or it might have to do with having AX88179+GL3520 chipset, who kinows.
> 
> I do know people are having more success with just a single ethernet adapter(no hubs)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MYTSN1...df6b143a119dc5ec39667&creativeASIN=B00MYTSN18


I did actually buy the UGREEN one in the above link, just haven't got around to trying it out yet, partly due to I actually will be connecting it to a MoCA adapter instead of straight ethernet, but I need to setup the MoCA adapter close to that TV first.


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## Alex_7

vurbano said:


> I think I am at the point where its just not worth it. I dont believe anyone knows what works for sure except the sandisk cruiser glide 128Gb flash drive over usb-c. Luckily the wifi on the 4K is outstanding. really no need for the ethernet i suppose. so for now i will disconnect the ethernet until tivo fixes their sh*t


It is a lot of trial and error. Same here I also thought about hard wiring it(I prefer hard wiring my devices) but my WiFi is working great with this device.


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## Alex_7

moyekj said:


> I did actually buy the UGREEN one in the above link, just haven't got around to trying it out yet, partly due to I actually will be connecting it to a MoCA adapter instead of straight ethernet, but I need to setup the MoCA adapter close to that TV first.


Nice, let us know if it works out for you. Will you be wiring it through the usb-c port or micro usb power port??


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## moyekj

Alex_7 said:


> Nice, let us know if it works out for you. Will you be wiring it through the usb-c port or micro usb power port??


 usb-c port is the plan (I have a usb-c <--> usb cable).


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## vurbano

Alex_7 said:


> It is a lot of trial and error. Same here I also thought about hard wiring it(I prefer hard wiring my devices) but my WiFi is working great with this device.


yeah Im going to have a box of unused stuff. PLEASE tivo put out some kind of list of what works or what you will make fixes to make work.


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## omelet1978

Just curious, are they going to do a fix to the "My Shows" part of the Tivo Stream 4K in this update?

One reason I returned the Tivo Stream 4k is bc it was pretty buggy and randomly updated and/or was just a static list of shows that I'd watched. It did not put the latest show that it recorded like the regular Tivo did on the top of the list or anything like that.


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## BillyClyde

Sounds like we may be getting TiVo DVR integration based on what I think TiVoPM is saying here at Zatz's site:

https://zatznotfunny.com/2020-07/tivo-stream-4k-fixes-delayed/



> We're working on a number of fixes as well as giving you guys some new features. We're trying to enable both. But we are focusing on the fixes around flickering video, Bluetooth/Remote Control issues, CEC issues and some WiFi problems. *We're working on a few features which are close to this communities hearts, so as soon as I have confirmation I'll let you know! *[&#8230;] We're working hard on this and a number of other fixes we're trying to get into your hands ASAP. I'm really sorry for the delay here, but we ran into some snags. Please know we're pushing very hard and as soon as I have updates I'll let you know


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## osu1991

BillyClyde said:


> Sounds like we may be getting TiVo DVR integration based on what I think TiVoPM is saying here at Zatz's site:
> 
> https://zatznotfunny.com/2020-07/tivo-stream-4k-fixes-delayed/


tivopm said 11 days ago that TiVo has no plans to integrate connectivity to TiVo DVRs.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/hghdp6/tivo_stream_is_getting_hbo_max_integration/fw6ut9y


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## kiadontknow

I've long suspected that the Tivo Stream 4k is the replacement to the Tivo Mini, but they can't announce until they sell their backstock. An expensive tivo mini that doesn't include HBO Max or Disney Plus is a harder and harder value proposition. Heck, even charging money for the Tivo DVR App on Apple and Android (free on Stream4k) makes more sense than a new $150 Mini.


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## mdavej

kiadontknow said:


> I've long suspected that the Tivo Stream 4k is the replacement to the Tivo Mini, but they can't announce until they sell their backstock.


So they were lying when they said, 


> The company has no plans to integrate connectivity to TiVo DVRs


?


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## kiadontknow

Was Tivo lying when they said they'd release Roku\AppleTV\AndroidTV DVR apps by the end of 2019? IMO yes. 

Over 10 years ago I was a phone monkey for Jawbone Bluetooth headsets. One day we were told when asked about a new version of the Jawbone Bluetooth headset being released, to answer that Jawbone had no intention of updating their line-up. Roughly ~2 weeks later on a Friday at 4pm we instead were given a sheet with information on the new Jawbone 2 and were told to encourage our customers to upgrade. It takes way longer than two weeks to develop a new Bluetooth headset, make them, and ship them out to the states. Jawbone had me lie to customers for ~ 2 weeks.

Tivo has to realize that as time goes on, when people watch TV they're more likey to watch Netflix, HBO Max, Peacock, Hulu, Vudu, etc then channel 407 or the LOGO channel. Heck, I spend more time watching the CW app then the CW channel. Tivo's apps are being abandoned, Hulu is still using their old interface and the HBO app will never be upgraded to HBO Max. Tivo has to realize that eventually they're going to have to release an app. Whether that app is released next week or next year, it's going to have to happen.


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## mschnebly

kiadontknow said:


> Tivo's apps are being abandoned, Hulu is still using their old interface and the HBO app will never be upgraded to HBO Max. Tivo has to realize that eventually they're going to have to release an app. Whether that app is released next week or next year, it's going to have to happen.


Unless Tivo is going to abandon making any new DVRs and focus on software and streaming. Then there is no reason to update apps. They put all the DVRs that are already out there in maintenance mode until their end of life.


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## BillyClyde

osu1991 said:


> tivopm said 11 days ago that TiVo has no plans to integrate connectivity to TiVo DVRs.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/hghdp6/tivo_stream_is_getting_hbo_max_integration/fw6ut9y


TiVo says a lot of things that don't happen. Also, your link is broken.


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## rczrider

mschnebly said:


> Unless Tivo is going to abandon making any new DVRs and focus on software and streaming. Then there is no reason to update apps. They put all the DVRs that are already out there in maintenance mode until their end of life.


I have it from an inside source that the only department / division of TiVo that is even solvent is the patent and licensing group (or however they're arranged, we didn't get into the internal structure), which includes their "if you like this, you might like this" algorithm that is used by pretty much every app that isn't YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon (I'm sure there are others, but you get the idea).

From what they said to me this weekend, there is an overall internal shift to pushing more software development for the purpose of selling it to smaller players who find it cheaper to license than develop their own. They said that the TS4K was TiVo's first foray into Android for the mainstream market and they're testing the waters to see what kind and quality of data they can glean from its data collection (in general) and Stream app (in particular). The idea being that they would then move almost exclusively over to licensing and software. So TiVo would start to become less prominent as a name to consumers and more prominent as a name to manufacturers.

Take it all with a grain of salt, of course. While my source does indeed work for TiVo, we don't talk a lot and so I don't know them very well. They've been there for years and are privy to some higher-level company strategy, but not all of it. They have nothing to do with the TS4K directly.


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## jaselzer

rczrider said:


> I have it from an inside source that the only department / division of TiVo that is even solvent is the patent and licensing group (or however they're arranged, we didn't get into the internal structure), which includes their "if you like this, you might like this" algorithm that is used by pretty much every app that isn't YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon (I'm sure there are others, but you get the idea).
> 
> From what they said to me this weekend, there is an overall internal shift to pushing more software development for the purpose of selling it to smaller players who find it cheaper to license than develop their own. They said that the TS4K was TiVo's first foray into Android for the mainstream market and they're testing the waters to see what kind and quality of data they can glean from its data collection (in general) and Stream app (in particular). The idea being that they would then move almost exclusively over to licensing and software. So TiVo would start to become less prominent as a name to consumers and more prominent as a name to manufacturers.
> 
> Take it all with a grain of salt, of course. While my source does indeed work for TiVo, we don't talk a lot and so I don't know them very well. They've been there for years and are privy to some higher-level company strategy, but not all of it. They have nothing to do with the TS4K directly.


What you wrote seems to make sense from everything we know or interpret from and about TiVo. At least to me, it is clear that the TiVo hardware business and their retail business are significant money losers. There is no way that TiVo makes money in those departments. Relatively speaking, I am sure the TiVo 4K stream is significantly less costly to manufacture since it is based on an existing product. And since TiVo seems to be going in the direction of a software company, I am guessing that the development of the TiVo stream application and it's underlying data mining capability is consistent With the direction they are going in.

I would put money down on the idea that the TiVo edge was the last of the TIvo DVR's that will get manufactured. This is why I am also suspicious that, as discussed in another thread, the TiVo mini is being replaced by an upgraded version of the TiVo mini. I just do not believe that TiVo would put money into it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mattyro7878

Isnt it hardware that in the long run generates the millions per month in fees ??


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## rczrider

mattyro7878 said:


> Isnt it hardware that in the long run generates the millions per month in fees ??


Use of the hardware, sure, but it's not the _hardware_ that's generating revenue...it's the _services_ and _software.
_
It's the same premise behind subsidized cell phones: cell provider sells the phone at a loss because they lock you into a contract (even the "bill credits" model is a contract, they just know it's not cool to call it that anymore). The individual pays significantly more than it ever costs the company to provide the service (even factoring in maintenance, regulatory licensing, upgrades, marketing, etc) and when it comes down to it, the network is there whether it's used or not. So they make up the lost cost of the phone pretty quickly and everything after that is a decent profit.

TiVo hardware is a fixed cost, one that (as an admittedly non-user of TiVo DVRs) is probably sold to the consumer at a minimal loss. It's the service behind it that you pay for, and which makes TiVo money. Meanwhile, they collect your data, refine their software and algorithms, and license the functionality to other companies.


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## mattyro7878

Those $1200 Galaxies and i-phones are loss leaders? I'll stick with my A-50. Even this middle of the lineup phone does more than i need.


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## rczrider

mattyro7878 said:


> Those $1200 Galaxies and i-phones are loss leaders? I'll stick with my A-50. Even this middle of the lineup phone does more than i need.


If a person pays $1200 for their cell phone, it was probably MSRP. I specifically mentioned subsidized hardware.


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## jaselzer

Any further information on this update. I am certainly hoping that it is very delayed because the changes are extensive!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Noelmel

I really hope the hurry up with this update. I need the volume fixes or to be able to manually program a code and have it stick. Tried switching to my new tv it works there automatically but won’t connect to the internet there which is all of 20 feet away and works fine in the other room so can’t be my network smh 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gamo62

It would be nice to have that HDR fix. Having to use adbLink to turn the auto HDR off is annoying because it doesn't remember the setting.
And by the way. Take ANYTHING that CNET has to say with a big ol' grain of salt. If you haven't noticed, they take old articles, change the date and pass them off a as new. These guys have become a joke over the years. I prefer Tom's Hardware over those clowns.


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## convergent

I'm only a few days into TS4K here and seeing most of the issues that have been being reported for months - HDR, flicker, CEC, remote volume/mute, etc.. Did an update ever actually get pushed out, or did they just postpone it and everyone is still waiting for anything to be addressed?


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## rczrider

convergent said:


> I'm only a few days into TS4K here and seeing most of the issues that have been being reported for months - HDR, flicker, CEC, remote volume/mute, etc.. Did an update ever actually get pushed out, or did they just postpone it and everyone is still waiting for anything to be addressed?


By and large, the TS4K is just as buggy now as it was on day one. I believe there was a "fix" for CEC that worked for some folks / hardware, but not all.

Always-on HDR, flickering (especially using Kodi or Plex), and remote programming weirdness are all still present.

If you buy the TS4K, make sure you're happy with the way it is now, because it seems quite possible that this thing is being downright ignored by TiVo.


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## Alex_7

rczrider said:


> By and large, the TS4K is just as buggy now as it was on day one. I believe there was a "fix" for CEC that worked for some folks / hardware, but not all.
> 
> Always-on HDR, flickering (especially using Kodi or Plex), and remote programming weirdness are all still present.
> 
> If you buy the TS4K, make sure you're happy with the way it is now, because it seems quite possible that this thing is being downright ignored by TiVo.


The only way I was able to eliminate screen flickering for Kodi and other movie apks was to lower the refresh rate settings below 30hz anything above 30hz causes flickering for me.


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## jaselzer

Any updates on the 4K Stream fixes? Anything in Reddit about the status of things. I am interest to see what TiVo has been working on


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rczrider

jaselzer said:


> Any updates on the 4K Stream fixes? Anything in Reddit about the status of things. I am interest to see what TiVo has been working on


They're not working on "fixes". What we have now is the way it's going to stay, bugs and all. If you're happy with it in its current form, then great! If not, I'd suggest returning it.


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## osu1991

tivopm
3 days ago
Hi There, we're working through the final processes for rollout now. If you'd like to test please PM me directly with your email address


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/hjilvk/what_happened_to_the_hdr_fix_that_was_supposed_to/fz42nl3



Code:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/hjilvk/what_happened_to_the_hdr_fix_that_was_supposed_to/fz42nl3?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x


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## convergent

osu1991 said:


> tivopm
> 3 days ago
> Hi There, we're working through the final processes for rollout now. If you'd like to test please PM me directly with your email address
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/hjilvk/what_happened_to_the_hdr_fix_that_was_supposed_to/fz42nl3
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/hjilvk/what_happened_to_the_hdr_fix_that_was_supposed_to/fz42nl3?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x


I got the same DM from tivopm on Reddit. I responded... not gotten any reply. Will be curious to see if it amounts to anything. In the mean time I had to make a decision so moved the family to Apple TV 4K for now. Not sure if I'm going to return the TS4K or hang on to it to see where it goes. The main issue that was driving me crazy was in spite of me trying all the disabling of CEC and such, the remote would keep forgetting how to control volume on my Sony TV; and the flickering, but would have toughed it out with that if the remote wasn't playing "50 First Dates" with me.


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## rczrider

osu1991 said:


> tivopm
> 3 days ago
> Hi There, we're working through the final processes for rollout now. If you'd like to test please PM me directly with your email address


That will be fantastic if it amounts to anything. My cynicism is due to the beta testing I did for TiVo and my direct communication with them. I have zero faith that TiVo will come through with an actual fix (but will instead come through with updates to their system that further their data collection efforts).


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## NashGuy

rczrider said:


> That will be fantastic if it amounts to anything. My cynicism is due to the beta testing I did for TiVo and my direct communication with them. I have zero faith that TiVo will come through with an actual fix (but will instead come through with updates to their system that further their data collection efforts).


I don't even own a TS4K but I'll enjoy seeing another update for the device roll out soon just to prove you wrong after you've bitterly posted over and over again that TiVo has "abandoned, abandoned, abandoned" their new device.


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## dbpaddler

NashGuy said:


> I don't even own a TS4K but I'll enjoy seeing another update for the device roll out soon just to prove you wrong after you've bitterly posted over and over again that TiVo has "abandoned, abandoned, abandoned" their new device.


Same. I'm not exactly a happy camper to see how the dvr ecosystem evolved over the past so many years, but I can't picture them coming up with this with the "just suck it up" attitude. Being on here a while it just seems like people that are bitter on the dvr side just let it carry over.

And I would love to see examples of brand new tech products for a company come out and be problem free from the get go, and not take a few months to iron out kinks.

That said, I've been pretty happy with mine. I don't use it on 4k devices as my only 4k source is android tv based already. So I don't see the issues others see. With Channels DVR setup, I actually see this as a good reason to ditch some of my tivo equipment. I'm down to a Roamio Pro and three minis (2 VOX, one OG). My bedroom setup with a 3ch Dolby Digital amp is completely run from that tiny peanut remote. My only issue is the occasional tivo stream hijack of the Live button which is surprising considering I disabled the app.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## rczrider

NashGuy said:


> I don't even own a TS4K but I'll enjoy seeing another update for the device roll out soon just to prove you wrong after you've bitterly posted over and over again that TiVo has "abandoned, abandoned, abandoned" their new device.


Actually, it's a win-win for me. I'm (most likely) right that TiVo has zero interest in improving the functionality of their device and will instead focus solely on ways to improve their data mining, or I'm wrong and they fix the buggy mess that is the TS4K.

If I'm right, I get to say "I told you so" and if I'm wrong I'll buy a functional and well-performing streamer for $20-30 less than the competition. Seriously, I can't lose.


dbpaddler said:


> Same. I'm not exactly a happy camper to see how the dvr ecosystem evolved over the past so many years, but I can't picture them coming up with this with the "just suck it up" attitude. Being on here a while it just seems like people that are bitter on the dvr side just let it carry over.


As I've pointed in (this thread? another one? I lose track), I've never owned another TiVo product. I'm not bitter about anything. I just call it as I see it, and I see a company that can't even meet deadlines it sets for itself, and a complete lack of customer service and communication. I haven't heard a single good thing about the beta program (for the TS4K or any other TiVo product). There is literally nothing about TiVo that indicates that this device will be anything but a failure.



dbpaddler said:


> And I would love to see examples of brand new tech products for a company come out and be problem free from the get go, and not take a few months to iron out kinks.


I'm sorry, who said their products needed to be "problem free from the get go"? All I've said is that they released before it was tested and they aren't keeping to their own deadlines. That does not inspire confidence in their commitment to the product or their technical capability to fix what they broke.


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## dbpaddler

rczrider said:


> Actually, it's a win-win for me. I'm (most likely) right that TiVo has zero interest in improving the functionality of their device and will instead focus solely on ways to improve their data mining, or I'm wrong and they fix the buggy mess that is the TS4K.
> 
> If I'm right, I get to say "I told you so" and if I'm wrong I'll buy a functional and well-performing streamer for $20-30 less than the competition. Seriously, I can't lose.
> 
> As I've pointed in (this thread? another one? I lose track), I've never owned another TiVo product. I'm not bitter about anything. I just call it as I see it, and I see a company that can't even meet deadlines it sets for itself, and a complete lack of customer service and communication. I haven't heard a single good thing about the beta program (for the TS4K or any other TiVo product). There is literally nothing about TiVo that indicates that this device will be anything but a failure.
> 
> I'm sorry, who said their products needed to be "problem free from the get go"? All I've said is that they released before it was tested and they aren't keeping to their own deadlines. That does not inspire confidence in their commitment to the product or their technical capability to fix what they broke.


I've owned and beta tested a lot of tech over the years. I'd probably be lucky to count on one hand how many products had bug fixes within timeframes set by the respective company. It's a lose/lose proposition for the company. Set a date and miss it, and people complain. Don't set a date and people complain because they constantly whine about when things are getting fixed and the company isn't being responsive. It's a rarity to have a company rep be available and responsive on a public forum of sorts giving constant feedback.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## convergent

Well it technically still is July.


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## dbpaddler

convergent said:


> Well it technically still is July.


Wanna bet he's a millennial? 

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## rczrider

convergent said:


> Well it technically still is July.


You're not wrong. I guess TiVo technically has 3 days to _only_ be "a month behind", rather than "more than a month behind".


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## BigJimOutlaw

rczrider said:


> All I've said is that they released before it was tested and they aren't keeping to their own deadlines. That does not inspire confidence in their commitment to the product or their technical capability to fix what they broke.


Oh, they absolutely test stuff first. They just release it anyway, to the angst of the testers. Hardware deadlines trumping software readiness has been in their DNA for 20 years.


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## rczrider

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Oh, they absolutely test stuff first. They just release it anyway, to the angst of the testers. Hardware deadlines trumping software readiness has been in their DNA for 20 years.


That seemed to be the consensus when I mentioned I signed up for beta testing.

The TS4K seems to be best of both worlds: releasing buggy software _and_ missing deadlines to do it!


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## convergent

rczrider said:


> That seemed to be the consensus when I mentioned I signed up for beta testing.
> 
> The TS4K seems to be best of both worlds: releasing buggy software _and_ missing deadlines to do it!


Well as long as the feature set is good, who cares!!!!


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## Alex_7

TiVo has now added support for Pluto Tv VOD on the stream app, according to a post on reddit.


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## Dan203

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Oh, they absolutely test stuff first. They just release it anyway, to the angst of the testers. Hardware deadlines trumping software readiness has been in their DNA for 20 years.


I beta tested the original S3 for over a year before it was released to the public. That was probably the most bug free release in TiVo's history. I also tested the original S2 for about 6 months before it was released and it still had quite a few bugs at launch. And while I got the Premier invite very late in the cycle (only about 6 weeks before launch) the software problems with that took YEARS to work out so beta testers did the best they could do.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Dan203 said:


> I beta tested the original S3 for over a year before it was released to the public. That was probably the most bug free release in TiVo's history. I also tested the original S2 for about 6 months before it was released and it still had quite a few bugs at launch. And while I got the Premier invite very late in the cycle (only about 6 weeks before launch) the software problems with that took YEARS to work out so beta testers did the best they could do.


The testers do their jobs, for sure. I blame Tivo for launching on a schedule most of the time, regardless of readiness. Namely with my experience, the Premiere was nuts in many ways for a full year past launch, Premiere Elite was crashy as hell for few more months, Roamio was problematic for Fios customers for a couple months, TE4 usability was poop for the first year and a half (IMO), and some others I won't specifically point out. The testers are great in the process. The launch schedules and Tivo's historically glacial pace, not so much.


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## osu1991

No HDR fix in the coming release. 



Code:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Tivo/comments/i0xuz4/stream_4k_firmware_update_and_stream_app_updates/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

r/tivo 
u/tivopm

Stream 4K Firmware Update and Stream App Updates

Hi All,

Along with the Pluto VOD update we released yesterday we are rolling out new Stream 4K device firmware as well as Stream App updates over the next week or so. These have a number of additional features and functionality in them as well as fixes and general improvements! We've detailed some of that information below:

* Apps are now accessible from the Left Navigation Menu on the Stream App
* Remote Control pairing and TV/Audio Improvements
* Additional Dolby Atmos support
* Flashing video playback in some apps
* HDMI-CEC Improvements
* Many additional fixes

We know many of you have experienced a number of these issues and we hope these releases are well received. One item I know you're also concerned about is the HDR issues - whilst the changes in functionality missed this release please rest assured we'll have those in another release shortly.


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## dbpaddler

At least with some of those other fixes, the can focus on hdr for the next one, and hopefully it'll be more timely. 

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## compnurd

dbpaddler said:


> At least with some of those other fixes, the can focus on hdr for the next one, and hopefully it'll be more timely.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


I am really thinking the HDR issue is Android/Google related since ATT box has the same issue


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## dbpaddler

compnurd said:


> I am really thinking the HDR issue is Android/Google related since ATT box has the same issue


Wouldn't the Shield and airtv mini have it then too?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## jwort93

compnurd said:


> I am really thinking the HDR issue is Android/Google related since ATT box has the same issue


Well the Shield TV handles it properly, and I'm pretty sure a few other Android TV boxes do too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Noelmel

Can’t wait for the update! I need the fix for the remote pairing issues. See no mention of WiFi issues hopefully those are addressed also 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## compnurd

jwort93 said:


> Well the Shield TV handles it properly, and I'm pretty sure a few other Android TV boxes do too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But are they all running the same version of Android TV?

it just seems more then a coincidence that two Android TV devices are having the same issue An issue that would go beyond the interface wrapping.


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## compnurd

dbpaddler said:


> Wouldn't the Shield and airtv mini have it then too?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Could depend on the Android TV version


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## convergent

Looking guests to trying it.


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## Johnwashere

Update coming very soon! I got the update and it FINALLY fixed my remote!!! New remote setup screen yayyy 

on Tivo Reddit-

*Stream 4K Firmware Update and Stream App Updates*








Hi All,

Along with the Pluto VOD update we released yesterday we are rolling out new Stream 4K device firmware as well as Stream App updates over the next week or so. These have a number of additional features and functionality in them as well as fixes and general improvements! We've detailed some of that information below:


Apps are now accessible from the Left Navigation Menu on the Stream App

Remote Control pairing and TV/Audio Improvements

Additional Dolby Atmos support

Fixes for flashing video playback in some apps

HDMI-CEC Improvements

Many additional fixes

We know many of you have experienced a number of these issues and we hope these releases are well received. One item I know you're also concerned about is the HDR issues - whilst the changes in functionality missed this release please rest assured we'll have those in another release shortly.


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## BillyClyde

So which one of those is the special fix or feature "_that's close to this community's hearts_"?


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## TivoJD

They appear to have locked out the developer options with the new update I received this morning. I had available before update and now I get developer options are not available for this user when I try to go into the developer menu option. Clicking the build just tells you that you are already a developer.


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## Alex_7

TivoJD said:


> They appear to have locked out the developer options with the new update I received this morning. I had available before update and now I get developer options are not available for this user when I try to go into the developer menu option. Clicking the build just tells you that you are already a developer.


Will updating my tivo stream affect my apps being installed on my external drive? Since I enabled "force allow apps on external" option enabled in developer options?


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## TivoJD

Alex_7 said:


> Will updating my tivo stream affect my apps being installed on my external drive? Since I enabled "force allow apps on external" option enabled in developer options?


Honestly, I don't know, but apparently the pin add was in error, see post below

July 30th Update


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## dbpaddler

Yep. That's what I was told. They didn't mean to revoke pin access to developer mode. So that will be temporary

And they're working on the decoding issue for OTA watching. 

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## TivoJD

Just FYI, I received the new home screen with the Google staff picks at the top today and just noticed developer options are back. No changes in TiVo Stream 4K software version or build, still have v9.0-4.1.6 and build PI.4800. Not sure if it is related to this update or not, but I can go into developer options now.


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## Alex_7

Prime video app finally got the multiple profiles update


----------

