# sounds like a JET engine taking off!!!



## ilovedvrs

My BOLT is so LOUD!!!!!!! will need to make a video of it. FAN is crazy BAD...

very unacceptable.

anyone else's unit loud?


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## scottfll954

zero sound what so ever...

make sure nothing is under the fan...


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## eric102

Mine is louder than most of my other stuff, wouldn't want it in a bedroom.


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## mjcxp

ilovedvrs said:


> My BOLT is so LOUD!!!!!!! will need to make a video of it. FAN is crazy BAD...
> 
> very unacceptable.
> 
> anyone else's unit loud?


Yep, mine sounds crazy loud too. I wonder if it because I have a massive Denon receiver below that produces quite a bit heat. I never noticed the noise on my Roamio Pro.


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## Dan203

Mine is louder then any of my other TiVos. It's probably the little fans. Small fans always produce more noise as they have to spin faster to move the same amount of air.


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## sangs

All mine are noticeably louder than the Roamios and my old FiOS DVR. Not jet engine loud though. As Dan mentioned, I assume it's the fan - not the hard drive.


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## ilovedvrs

yes, it is the fan.

My tivo is on a cold piece of wood. no other heat sources around.


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## zerdian1

ilovedvrs said:


> yes, it is the fan.
> 
> My tivo is on a cold piece of wood. no other heat sources around.


I was going to buy one for the Bedroom to take advantage of the commercial skip.
That is where I have my office, TV and Ocean Beach view.
But My 12TB WeaKnees Roamio Pro is very Quiet.

I will skip the Bolt for now.


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## Dan203

zerdian1 said:


> I was going to buy one for the Bedroom to take advantage of the commercial skip.
> That is where I have my office, TV and Ocean Beach view.
> but roamio is very Quiet.
> 
> I will skip the Bolt for now.


I have mine in my office and I don't really notice the noise. My computer is louder then the Bolt.


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## MrSinatra

to design it in such a way as it is, which is stupid to begin with, is a huge problem for me. if it is also loud as a result of its stupid design, that could def be a game ender for me.

i want a bolt, but not if i can hear it. i have a 2 tuner XL and i don't ever hear it unless its restarting. can anyone compare the two while operating normally? db levels would be a plus.


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## aaronwt

I'll need to check to see how mine sounds. I have not been in a quiet room with it yet.


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## andyf

I can hear it if I get within 1' - 2' but beyond that it fades into the background noise of the house (fridge, attic fan etc.).

It does run warm though. The coax connecter is almost too hot to hold for an extended time.


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## colodane

The noise and heat that some folks are reporting are a possible concern to me in my purchase decision - the only concern, actually. Otherwise, I'm quite excited about the product.

I'd like to know more. Has anyone measured the input power to the Bolt when it was in a "standby" condition (not actively streaming or used to view live TV) ? This would be interesting to know: The input power, VA and power factor as measured by a Kill-A-Watt or similar device. Has anyone done this yet?

Thanks!


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## waynomo

I wonder if everyone is describing the same thing except some people have more sensitive ears than others. There is a huge perceived difference in noise level based on the descriptions given here. Or does someone really have a defective fan/unit?


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## Kremlar

Mine has a hum to it which certainly might be annoying to some but it's not bad in my opinion. It's in my master bedroom, but I don't mind the slight noise - especially because it replaced a HTPC that was a bit louder.

I do not have a Roamio so I cannot compare.

Mine is a bit warm on top, but certainly not hot. The coax connector is also slightly warm but not hot.

This is with a 4TB drive installed.


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## Dan203

Mine is pretty warm on top too. It surprised me how warm when I touched it. The standalone TiVo Stream has similar issues. Warm to the touch and a loud fan. Luckily that could be tucked away in another room if you wanted. With the Bolt designed to connect to your main TV you'd think they would have done a little more to try and quiet it down.


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## tomhorsley

waynomo said:


> I wonder if everyone is describing the same thing except some people have more sensitive ears than others.


Could be sensitive ears, but also there is often considerable variation in the quality of fans. Anyone know what size the fans are? If they are 40mm, you could replace them with some Noctua fans which are amazingly quiet (and priced accordingly, but worth it if you hate noise .

But unfortunately, I just found a picture of the bolt guts, and measuring the fan compared to the 2.5 inch disk drive seems to indicate the fan is a 45mm fan (which is a bit of an odd size). Noctua doesn't make a 45mm fan :-(.


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## thefisch

any data on MBT readings with stream on and off?


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## agredon

I can't hear mine at all over the background noise (HTPC) unless I get really close.


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## peroulas

Mine is super quiet. I have to be within a foot or two to hear it. Maybe something is defective? My Xbox one is waaay louder... I did replace the HD with a 4tb, but I doubt that changed anything.


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## aaronwt

thefisch said:


> any data on MBT readings with stream on and off?


I didn't see my temps rise much while streaming. It's different than the Roamio Pro/Plus. Those boxes had a separate IP address for the Stream inside. Which was also a separate chip. With the Bolt it's built in to the chipset and there is only one IP address that is used.

Where I saw my temps really increase was when I transferring content for a few hours and recording with all tuners. My temps went up to 71 when they are normally at 63.


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## Charles R

waynomo said:


> I wonder if everyone is describing the same thing except some people have more sensitive ears than others.


Some of the earlier models had different fan vendors (for the same model). I had one which was much louder than another and I ended up swapping fans. When I did I noticed they were made by different companies...


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## jonw747

The fan may be running faster to keep the unit cooler. Putting the fan on the bottom was an odd decision. Is it sucking in from the front and blowing out the bottom?


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## Andrew_S

You can always replace the fan with a "silent" fan. Not sure of the size, but here are some options.

*40mm*
Gelid Silent 4
Scythe Mini Kaze
Scythe Mini Kaze Ultra
Noctua NF-A4x10 FLX
Noctua NF-A4X10 5V

*50mm*
Gelid Silent 5
Scythe Mini Kaze 50mm

Keep in mind these may not move as much air but these companies generally use better blade design than the fans that come in mass marketed products. Even if these aren't exact size replacements, they could be made to fit with a little thought.


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## BobCamp1

With the fan on the bottom, the sound just echos off the hard surface underneath. The curved design acts like a speaker in this case and could amplify it.

Does the Tivo sound that loud out in the open? If not, then maybe put the Tivo on top of a thin layer of foam or some other sound-absorbing material.


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## zerdian1

I contacted WeaKnees and they recommended for the bedroom that we put it in a cabinet and use the RF remote.
That will muffle the noise.

In an office or in WeaKnees' case in a WareHouse the noise is not noticeable.

the TiVo Series 5 Roamio uses Desktop components and larger form factor hard drives and fans. LESS NOISY!

The TiVo Series 6 Bolt uses laptop components with smaller form factor hard drives and fans. MORE NOISY!


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## aaronwt

zerdian1 said:


> I contacted WeaKnees and they recommended for the bedroom that we put it in a cabinet and use the RF remote.
> That will muffle the noise.
> 
> In an office or in WeaKnees' case in a WareHouse the noise is not noticeable.
> 
> the TiVo Series 5 Roamio uses Desktop components and larger form factor hard drives and fans. LESS NOISY!
> 
> The TiVo Series 6 Bolt uses laptop components with smaller form factor hard drives and fans. MORE NOISY!


I recently listened to my Bolt and my Roamio Pro. They seem to emit around the same amount of noise.(although I didn't measure it) Either way I can easily hear them both from over twelve feet away in a quiet room. But I am also overly sensitive to fan noise.


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## HarperVision

aaronwt said:


> ........ But I am also overly sensitive to fan noise.


You probably shouldn't go to a Seattle Seahawks or KC Chiefs game then! 

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com...arthquake-with-world-record-crowd-roar-53285/

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/29/chiefs-break-seahawks-noise-record



I haven't heard my Bolt's fan at all yet, but I'll keep an ear out for it later. I put a 2TB drive in it.


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## Leon WIlkinson

:I wonder if you could use a cloth under a bolt to help lower the noise level.


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## Kremlar

> I contacted WeaKnees and they recommended for the bedroom that we put it in a cabinet and use the RF remote.


That would increase the temps on the Bolt. Pick your poison.


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## MrSinatra

i think there could be a market that weaknees could expolit, where they basically disembowel a bolt, and put it into a standard case (no stupid bend) using quiet fans and big desktop style hard drives.

i would buy one.


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## jonw747

With any luck TiVo will beat them to it.


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## ckib16

Yes, the fan noise is annoying. Mine is not extremely loud but has a metallic oscillating noise that is noticeable as I sit here 10-12 feet away. It's as if the fan blades or the unit is out of alignment.

The fan seems to be cheap quality. And overall, the build-quality of the Bolt seems a little sub-par from what I expected from the Tivo brand. Gaps in the seams. Plastic edges slightly warped. All nitpicky things, but they add up.

I'll be looking to replace the fan with a high-quality, silent option.

Anyone have actual measurements for the fan inside the Bolt?


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## apw2607

I have to agree with you with build quality. Its no apple product ! That side cover is a disaster. Mine doesnt line up and the front corner is all warped.

Fan noise on mine is ok though. A bit louder than the roamio basic but not bothersome.


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## mjcxp

ckib16 said:


> Yes, the fan noise is annoying. Mine is not extremely loud but has a metallic oscillating noise that is noticeable as I sit here 10-12 feet away. It's as if the fan blades or the unit is out of alignment.
> 
> The fan seems to be cheap quality. And overall, the build-quality of the Bolt seems a little sub-par from what I expected from the Tivo brand. Gaps in the seams. Plastic edges slightly warped. All nitpicky things, but they add up.
> 
> I'll be looking to replace the fan with a high-quality, silent option.
> 
> Anyone have actual measurements for the fan inside the Bolt?


I completely agree. The noise is extremely annoying in a quiet room. I am tempted to exchange it at Best Buy to see if I can get one that is less audible. For a $400 product the build quality leaves a lot to be desired too. The Roamio Pro feels like a tank compared to the BOLT.


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## markjrenna

If it was an Apple product it would have cost $1300 and the lemmings would line up and buy it.



apw2607 said:


> I have to agree with you with build quality. Its no apple product ! That side cover is a disaster. Mine doesnt line up and the front corner is all warped.
> 
> Fan noise on mine is ok though. A bit louder than the roamio basic but not bothersome.


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## aaronwt

mjcxp said:


> I completely agree. The noise is extremely annoying in a quiet room. I am tempted to exchange it at Best Buy to see if I can get one that is less audible. For a $400 product the build quality leaves a lot to be desired too. The Roamio Pro feels like a tank compared to the BOLT.


Both of the Bolt's I have sound basically the same. One with a 4TB drive and one with the stock 500GB drive. I think the fan is louder because it is directly over the hump area. Which has vents there for air flow. And unlike the Roamio Basic is is not blocked by anything.

To me it seems just as loud as my Roamio Pro fan. But the Bolt has a higher frequency to the fan noise. I can easily hear either one in a quiet room from over twelve feet away. I wouldn't want either the Bolt or a Roamio Pro in my bedroom. But in my primary or secondary viewing area I have no problem with it since those rooms aren't quiet when in use.

But I am also one who easily hears fans in devices in a quiet room.


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## tomhorsley

ckib16 said:


> Anyone have actual measurements for the fan inside the Bolt?


I found a picture of the insides of the bolt, and since we know the disk is 2.5 inches, I calculated the fan was probably a 45mm fan (which is a standard fan size, but not as common a size as some others, so I doubt there are lots of available alternatives).


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## Kremlar

It would be nice to actually measure and/or get a model # off the fan if possible. I should have done that when I had mine open, but didn't. Will definitely do that next time I have it open (but hopefully not for a long time!).


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## keenanSR

tomhorsley said:


> I found a picture of the insides of the bolt, and since we know the disk is 2.5 inches, I calculated the fan was probably a 45mm fan (which is a standard fan size, but not as common a size as some others, so I doubt there are lots of available alternatives).


I though someone has already determined it was a 40mm, which seems to be an odd size?


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## ilovedvrs

My 2nd bolt is the same sound level as the first


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## aaronwt

ilovedvrs said:


> My 2nd bolt is the same sound level as the first


Well at least they are consistent then. Both of my Bolts sounded the same too.


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## apw2607

Mine started making way more noise after. 24hrs of operation so it got moved out of ear range! Definitly worse than the Roamio. In my mind, this is disgraceful for a consumer electronics product thats designed for living and sleeping areas ... Thats essentially always on. Cheap parts or just a terrible design. Big fail for Tivo.


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## sangs

apw2607 said:


> Mine started making way more noise after. 24hrs of operation so it got moved out of ear range! Definitly worse than the Roamio. In my mind, this is disgraceful for a consumer electronics product thats designed for living and sleeping areas ... Thats essentially always on. Cheap parts or just a terrible design. Big fail for Tivo.


"Big fail for TiVo?" Overly dramatic much? Our Xbox One in the standby position makes more noise. And when the TV is on, we cannot hear either the Xbox or the Bolt. I'm OK with a mildly noisier fan for all the other upgrades the Bolt gives me. Hardly a "big fail" at all.


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## Andrew_S

sangs said:


> "Big fail for TiVo?" Overly dramatic much? Our Xbox One in the standby position makes more noise. And when the TV is on, we cannot hear either the Xbox or the Bolt. I'm OK with a mildly noisier fan for all the other upgrades the Bolt gives me. Hardly a "big fail" at all.


Seems like a failure in product design myself. If I could hear my laptop from across the room, I'd also say it was a big fail. And honestly, the Bolt is not much more than a laptop (or a fire tv, apple tv, nexus tv, etc).


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## sangs

Andrew_S said:


> Seems like a failure in product design myself. If I could hear my laptop from across the room, I'd also say it was a big fail. And honestly, the Bolt is not much more than a laptop (or a fire tv, apple tv, nexus tv, etc).


Really? Is your laptop on 24/7? Is there a spinning hard drive or fan in the FireTV, AppleTV and/or NexusTV? Every DVR I've owned, all the way back to the Ultimate TV has made noise. Some have been louder than others. (You know who you are DirecTV HR24.) The Bolt fan noise doesn't bother us at all. It's louder than the Roamio, yes, but it also does more than the Roamio, including run MUCH faster. Again, hardly a "fail."


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## Kremlar

Agree, I don't think it's that bad - even in my master bedroom on an open bureau. I guess if I sat there and focused on it I could hear it, but with other noises going on in the house at various times (AC units, dryer, refrigerator, dishwasher, etc.) it's really not annoying to me at all. 

It will be interesting to see if anyone successfully replaces the fan with something quieter and reports exact sizes, model #s, etc. I know I won't be taking mine apart unless I really need to (hard drive dies, fan dies, etc.) 

It's just not that loud to me, but everyone has different sensitivity to these things.


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## snerd

Kremlar said:


> It's just not that loud to me, but everyone has different sensitivity to these things.


Different ears have different sensitivity, and different fans have different loudness, so some Bolt fans are louder than others.


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## Kremlar

> Different ears have different sensitivity, and different fans have different loudness, so some Bolt fans are louder than others.


Since all Bolts are less than a month or so old, and assuming TiVo is using the same brand/model fan for each, unless it's a defective fan they should all be roughly the same.

I do think some of the noise is caused by vibration and not the fan itself. If I place my hand heavy on the unit on top near the fan the fan noise changes slightly.


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## aaronwt

sangs said:


> "Big fail for TiVo?" Overly dramatic much? Our Xbox One in the standby position makes more noise. And when the TV is on, we cannot hear either the Xbox or the Bolt. I'm OK with a mildly noisier fan for all the other upgrades the Bolt gives me. Hardly a "big fail" at all.


Both my XBOnes in standby make less noise than both of my Bolts.


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## Andrew_S

sangs said:


> Every DVR I've owned, all the way back to the Ultimate TV has made noise.


Since fan noise is expected it rules out poor design? There are trade offs to be made in case design and thermal management. Tivo may have chosen poorly or used inexpensive components in the Bolt. I've seen the pictures of the Bolt's fan. It's a standard, inexpensive, poorly designed fan. Fan technology has moved forward in leaps and bounds in recent years. A quieter fan could have been sourced. Probably would have been more expensive but in my opinion loud fan noise on this type of device is not acceptable. Tivo has been designing DVR's for a number of years now. Should have built up a large amount of knowledge on how to do it well yet they're still sourcing the cheapest components. They should be better at hardware design. It's not like they're spending much effort on software design or all menus would be in 1080p.


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## aspexil

We only have one Bolt upgraded to 2TB. No noticeable noise and it is in the living room where I have been working (recently moved) and with the TV off the Bolt is way quieter than my Lenovo laptop. Wonder if some bad fan parts made their way in?


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## celluloidlout

I've been using my Bolt for about three days and it's virtually silent. Granted, I don't have the greatest hearing but I nearly have to be within a foot to hear it. My Xbox One on the other hand, I can hear more than 20 feet away.


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## bwgas1

i can't hear any fan noise on mine maybe i got a good one !!!! my coax connecter is warm but no fan noise :up:


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## aaronwt

bwgas1 said:


> i can't hear any fan noise on mine maybe i got a good one !!!! my coax connecter is warm but no fan noise :up:


I've had three if them. They were all the same loudness. You need to be in a quiet room to hear them. Just like the Roamios. In a quiet room I can easily hear the Bolts or Roamios from twelve feet away.


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## tomsavell

The Bolt is definitely the loudest TiVo ever. This is my fifth - my first was a Philips-branded original TiVo, and I also have a Series 2, a Premiere, and a Roamio Pro. The Bolt is the loudest and most annoying by far. It was so loud, I assumed I had a defective one and ordered a replacement. When I plugged in the replacement, it was just as loud! So I decided not to go through the hassle of setting up another one and will just send it back. I'm very disappointed in this, since a living-room or bedroom device shouldn't be making that much noise. 

Even though I'm disappointed, I decided to keep the loud Bolt I already had set up, mainly because of the feature set and the snappiness of the processor - at least it feels snappier on initial use (not even a couple hours).

BTW, I assume the problem is that it's a cheapo fan they chose to reduce BOM cost, but it also could be poor industrial design resulting in the case amplifying the sound of the fan. I would be interested to know if anyone has tried replacing the fan with a high quality low-noise variety.


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## GoodSpike

I can hear the fan noise at times. Definitely varies. It does remind me of my old DTivo, which was also loud at times. Not terribly upset because my old HTPC was also loud at times. None of them were so loud that they were noticeable while playing most material.


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## aaronwt

tomsavell said:


> The Bolt is definitely the loudest TiVo ever. This is my fifth - my first was a Philips-branded original TiVo, and I also have a Series 2, a Premiere, and a Roamio Pro. The Bolt is the loudest and most annoying by far. It was so loud, I assumed I had a defective one and ordered a replacement. When I plugged in the replacement, it was just as loud! So I decided not to go through the hassle of setting up another one and will just send it back. I'm very disappointed in this, since a living-room or bedroom device shouldn't be making that much noise.
> 
> Even though I'm disappointed, I decided to keep the loud Bolt I already had set up, mainly because of the feature set and the snappiness of the processor - at least it feels snappier on initial use (not even a couple hours).
> 
> BTW, I assume the problem is that it's a cheapo fan they chose to reduce BOM cost, but it also could be poor industrial design resulting in the case amplifying the sound of the fan. I would be interested to know if anyone has tried replacing the fan with a high quality low-noise variety.


I've had at least four Bolts here. None of my fans are that loud. Even after upgrading to 4TB. Although, I can hear the fan in any TiVo from fifteen feet away in a quiet room. But like any TiVo with a fan, I wouldn't want one in my bedroom.

The only time I've heard the fan in a Bolt excessively loud is when it first boots up. When the fan is spinning at top speed. But that is also the case with any TiVo.


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## drooplug

I measured about 50 db *AT* the fan. I was not able to get distance readings. It sounds a lot like a dvd player. I'm unhappy with the noise. It's not somethign you really hear when watching TV, but with everything off, I find it bothersome. The room I have it in doubles as guest quarters.


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## GoodSpike

drooplug said:


> I measured about 50 db *AT* the fan. I was not able to get distance readings. It sounds a lot like a dvd player. I'm unhappy with the noise. It's not somethign you really hear when watching TV, but with everything off, I find it bothersome. The room I have it in doubles as guest quarters.


With the old DTivos where was a significant amount of discussion about alternative fans you could install. I did that on one of mine--the one in the bedroom. A bolt is a little harder to take apart than a DTivo was, but I'm surprised there isn't some discussion of that option. Maybe the Bolt is too new or maybe it's fan is quieter--or doesn't ramp up to speed as much????


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## drooplug

I think I will be waiting for the warranty to run out before I try any tweaks with it. I really expected the HDD to be the noise problem, but I don't even hear it.


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## GoodSpike

drooplug said:


> I think I will be waiting for the warranty to run out before I try any tweaks with it. I really expected the HDD to be the noise problem, but I don't even hear it.


I'm not sure any HHDs make noise anymore. Maybe I've just been lucky picking them, or maybe my hearing is going!


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## aaronwt

GoodSpike said:


> I'm not sure any HHDs make noise anymore. Maybe I've just been lucky picking them, or maybe my hearing is going!


The HDs all still make noise. Every platter 2.5" and 3.5" I've tried.


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## apw2607

Certainly hard drives make some noise but nothing in comparison to the cheap rattly fan they stuck in the bolt. The thing is a disaster. Such a shame and a missed opportunity. Surely they must know people put DVRs in bedrooms and other quiet areas.


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## TenchiZ06

I haven't noticed it when watching TV. However, when the Mini is running upstairs, and I come downstairs where the Bolt is, it's super loud. This has nothing to do with ear sensitivity. It's extremely noticeable by my wife and I.

It's way louder than the Xbox One, Alienware, or Blu-Ray player.


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## ljiminez

Does anyone know of a replacement for the "cheap rattly fan" ? I've been doing google searches, but no joy.


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## MichaelK

my bolt (disclaimer-with an upgraded drive) seems to reboot at times when pushed just a little bit- eg, 4 tuners "recording", downloaded a show to a phone (assume it's transcoding?), even a daily call (indexing?) can kill it at times.

I too would love to try a new fan- preferably that i can vampire off the HDD power or something so that i can run it at full speed all the time. FWIW i dont notice the current fan at all.


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## mrbluesky

I've read dozens of posts about the Bolt noise and I've purchased one that does the same thing. It is the only piece of equipment around and is just loud. I've determined that it is fan like everyone else. While it is loud during the day it sounds even worse at night when everything else is off. I even returned it to the vendor and received another "new" one and it is just as loud. I owned a Roamio that wasn't this loud. Mine was made in Mexico and it seems like they used a "cheap" fan. Does anyone know if TiVO is doing anything about this or if owners will have to file some sort of suite demanding they fix it?


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## loopit

Purchased a Roamio 1 TB, which is my seventh TiVo since 1999. It is by far the loudest one I've ever owned. It's in the bedroom and the noise is so bad that I need to get up and unplug the power cable ever night. It sounds like something spinning.

I thought it was the hard drive and considered replacing with an SSD drive, but after reading the above posts, it sounds like it's most likely the fan.

Does anyone know of a good replacement for the fan?


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## aaronwt

loopit said:


> Purchased a Roamio 1 TB, which is my seventh TiVo since 1999. It is by far the loudest one I've ever owned. It's in the bedroom and the noise is so bad that I need to get up and unplug the power cable ever night. It sounds like something spinning.
> 
> I thought it was the hard drive and considered replacing with an SSD drive, but after reading the above posts, it sounds like it's most likely the fan.
> 
> Does anyone know of a good replacement for the fan?


It shouldn't be loud like that. If it's still under warranty it should be replaced.


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## loopit

aaronwt said:


> It shouldn't be loud like that. If it's still under warranty it should be replaced.


Have only had it for three weeks. Was about to return it, but after reading many other posts of people having this problem, I figured the new one I got would just do the same thing.


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## compnurd

I have two new bolts (one made in Sept and one in October) and both are very quiet


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## Kremlar

loopit said:


> Have only had it for three weeks. Was about to return it, but after reading many other posts of people having this problem, I figured the new one I got would just do the same thing.


Your fan may be defective so I would try getting a replacement first.

Also, "loud" is subjective and relative - so what is a quiet fan to one person in their environment may be unacceptable to another in their environment.


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## eric102

Get a mini for your bedroom, dead silent.


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## foghorn2

I'm noticing different version of fans being used in the basic Roamios and OTA's, some lasting longer than others in terms of noise.

Stupid design on both models. Small fans spinning fast - asking for trouble.


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## aaronwt

Kremlar said:


> Your fan may be defective so I would try getting a replacement first.
> 
> Also, "loud" is subjective and relative - so what is a quiet fan to one person in their environment may be unacceptable to another in their environment.


Personally no TiVo with a fan is acceptable to me in a bedroom any more. I can still easily hear any TiVo with a fan from 15 feet away in a quiet room. I had become used to it a long time ago but once I got a Mini which is silent, I could never go back to a host TiVo in the bedroom.


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## tomhorsley

aaronwt said:


> Personally no TiVo with a fan is acceptable to me in a bedroom any more.


Especially when it decides to install an update and reboot at 2 AM. The fan goes to 100%, the green LED flashes - you wake up and think an alien invasion is in progress .


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## measel

My bolt is absolutely silent. Send it back and get another.


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## loopit

measel said:


> My bolt is absolutely silent. Send it back and get another.


Literally, just got back from dropping off the old Bolt (1 GB) and the new one (500 MBs) I had ordered had been delivered. As soon as I plugged it in, I could hear the exact same loud noise, which is due to the fan in the back left corner.

One of my Series 2 TiVos went bad, so I had purchased the bolt to replace it. The Series 2 was super quiet. It's a shame that such a nice unit has to be useless to me due to a cheap fan.

Has anybody been able to find a fan to replace it with that's actually quiet?

I may end up purchasing a Roamio instead, since it just seems to be the Bolt that's having these issues.


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## foghorn2

Basic Roamios have the same fan issues.


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## BobCamp1

loopit said:


> Literally, just got back from dropping off the old Bolt (1 GB) and the new one (500 MBs) I had ordered had been delivered. As soon as I plugged it in, I could hear the exact same loud noise, which is due to the fan in the back left corner.
> 
> One of my Series 2 TiVos went bad, so I had purchased the bolt to replace it. The Series 2 was super quiet. It's a shame that such a nice unit has to be useless to me due to a cheap fan.
> 
> Has anybody been able to find a fan to replace it with that's actually quiet?
> 
> I may end up purchasing a Roamio instead, since it just seems to be the Bolt that's having these issues.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=539933


----------



## phlegmer

BobCamp1 said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=539933


According to that thread, the fan is 50mm x 14mm. If anyone tries any of the ones that Andrew_S suggested


> Gelid Silent 5
> Scythe Mini Kaze 50mm


I'd be interested to hear the results. My Bolt isn't unbearably loud but it is much more noticeable than the Premiere and the Roamio we have. It's more of a higher pitched (maybe whinier sound) than the lower pitched and quieter sounds of the previous models mentioned.

Thanks


----------



## dnw29

So I have had a Bolt for three weeks. The fan really bothers me, I am considering taking it back because of it. The Premiere I had was much quieter, and the reason I switched to Tivo was because the Time Warner DVRs were so loud in the first place.

Placing it in glass or putting a cloth under it isn't an acceptable solution, it needs to be more quite. It's almost as loud as my PS3. It's also loud in standby mode, I've tried that.


----------



## loopit

It's such a shame that they had to sacrifice overall quality due to having to make the until so much smaller. Why shave an inch off when they could have made it a bit larger and gone with a 50mm fan that's quiet? Ugh!


----------



## aaronwt

dnw29 said:


> So I have had a Bolt for three weeks. The fan really bothers me, I am considering taking it back because of it. The Premiere I had was much quieter, and the reason I switched to Tivo was because the Time Warner DVRs were so loud in the first place.
> 
> Placing it in glass or putting a cloth under it isn't an acceptable solution, it needs to be more quite. It's almost as loud as my PS3. It's also loud in standby mode, I've tried that.


None of the five Bolts I have owned are loud like this. Even with a 4TB drive they aren't very loud. Of course any TiVo or DVR in a quiet room seems loud to me since I can easily hear them from fifteen feet away.


----------



## bradl

I'm STILL waiting on a cablecard from Frontier so I just have my bolt in a guest room doing nothing. It isn't the noise of a drive or even fan air  it's literally a rattling buzz from the fan or its housing. I can squeeze the case in various places and change the noise considerably, but never in a manner that significantly quiets it. It's a very plasticy buzz.

I bought if off Amazon. Sort of wish I'd bought it at BB to make it easier to exchange or take back.


----------



## JoeKustra

bradl said:


> I'm STILL waiting on a cablecard from Frontier so I just have my bolt in a guest room doing nothing. It isn't the noise of a drive or even fan air  it's literally a rattling buzz from the fan or its housing. I can squeeze the case in various places and change the noise considerably, but never in a manner that significantly quiets it. It's a very plasticy buzz.
> 
> I bought if off Amazon. Sort of wish I'd bought it at BB to make it easier to exchange or take back.


Amazon has a great return policy. It's quite painless.


----------



## dnw29

I placed a fairly heavy glass ornament on the top of the unit and it does eliminate some of the buzz from the casing, but the overall fan noise is still bad.


----------



## aaronwt

bradl said:


> I'm STILL waiting on a cablecard from Frontier so I just have my bolt in a guest room doing nothing. It isn't the noise of a drive or even fan air  it's literally a rattling buzz from the fan or its housing. I can squeeze the case in various places and change the noise considerably, but never in a manner that significantly quiets it. It's a very plasticy buzz.
> 
> I bought if off Amazon. Sort of wish I'd bought it at BB to make it easier to exchange or take back.


Maybe I don't have any noises like that because I have taken all my Bolts apart and put them back together several times?


----------



## bradl

If I were keeping it I'd definitely try seeing if re-assembling it might help.

I tried making a sound file but the level is very low of the recording. The nature of the noise can more or less be heard.

http://nototo.us/sounds/BoltFan.m4a

I think returning it is the plan, in hopes that an exchange will be better.


----------



## kendalltr

phlegmer said:


> According to that thread, the fan is 50mm x 14mm. If anyone tries any of the ones that Andrew_S suggested
> 
> I'd be interested to hear the results. My Bolt isn't unbearably loud but it is much more noticeable than the Premiere and the Roamio we have. It's more of a higher pitched (maybe whinier sound) than the lower pitched and quieter sounds of the previous models mentioned.
> 
> Thanks


I tried the GELID Silent5 fan. The pitch and volume of the fan noise is pretty much identical to the stock fan.


----------



## MHunter1

bradl said:


> I tried making a sound file


That torturous buzzing noise sounds just like the TiVo Stream I banished to the garage and went through the hassle of drilling a hole in the wall to run a 100' ethernet cable through the attic to reach the router upstairs. Why didnt TiVo learn from the negative feedback  we voiced about the loud fan noise from the Stream? Don't they test their hardware in a quiet room?


----------



## tomhorsley

I liked the solution someone posted in another thread - mounting a large Noctua fan on the outside of the case (presumably after either cutting out a circle or drilling lots of holes for air flow .


----------



## phlegmer

kendalltr said:


> I tried the GELID Silent5 fan. The pitch and volume of the fan noise is pretty much identical to the stock fan.


That's unfortunate. 

I was about to order the Scythe Mini Kaze and then saw this answer to a question about the sound:



> "Eventhough it has a lower noise rating, there is a slight high pitched hum. I have two of them in an open itx case and I can hear them when my tv is off. It's annoying enough that I want to replace them."


Guess that one is out as well. Anyone know of an alternative candidate?


----------



## dnw29

bradl said:


> If I were keeping it I'd definitely try seeing if re-assembling it might help.
> 
> I tried making a sound file but the level is very low of the recording. The nature of the noise can more or less be heard.
> 
> http://nototo.us/sounds/BoltFan.m4a
> 
> I think returning it is the plan, in hopes that an exchange will be better.


That is exactly what mine sounds like. Maybe not even the fan, just an annoying buzz. Definitely returning it. Bummer because I have a lot of shows recorded and these aren't the easiest things in the world to install.


----------



## seal.rock

NP: I am dealing with this now. Objectively of course it is pretty quiet, but I hone in on it and can hear it since it's by my bed. My question is - can any of you recommend a really simple looking breathable box I could put the Bolt in that would dampen the sound? I don't know anything about this kind of thing. What kind of keywords would I use to search of an enclosure for the bolt?


----------



## tomhorsley

The single most effective solution is (unfortunately) to put it somewhere else and get a mini. The mini has no fan, and so, makes no noise (though the mini does have the brightest network port lights I've ever seen, which is a different problem in the bedroom).

Then there was the post on this board somewhere showing a bolt someone hacked by replacing the small fan with a large Noctua fan on the outside (with, I guess, lots of holes drilled in the case). Noctua fans are wonderfully quiet, but they don't make an exact size replacement for the fan in the bolt.


----------



## mangochutney

Has anyone compared fan noise bolt to bolt+?
Most probably they share the same fan.


----------



## PaperPlate

ilovedvrs said:


> My BOLT is so LOUD!!!!!!! will need to make a video of it. FAN is crazy BAD...
> 
> very unacceptable.
> 
> anyone else's unit loud?


I have two roamio pros on my media center, which barely make any sound ( I had to bend and put my ear 1 foot away from it to hear anything); so when I plugged in the bolt I was shocked at how loud the fan was. It's a deal breaker for me; it was purchased for a bedroom. There's no way can have that noisy thing running when I am trying to sleep. I had to return it. It's a shame too. I purchased one of the roamios because the bolt+ wasn't available at the time. So when the bolt+ came out, I was so sure it would be my next TiVo purchase. I can't believe how badly designed and cheap the housing is. At least when you hold an iPhone 7, it doesn't feel cheap. I don't know how many times they can miss the mark and correct their mistakes before they go out of business.


----------



## hankuro

mangochutney said:


> Has anyone compared fan noise bolt to bolt+?
> Most probably they share the same fan.


Anyone know the answer to this poster's question? Would it make sense that a larger HD requires more cooling therefore more noise?


----------



## aaronwt

hankuro said:


> Anyone know the answer to this poster's question? Would it make sense that a larger HD requires more cooling therefore more noise?


Not really. My Bolts run at the same temps with a 4TB drive as they did with a 500GB drive. Of course I can only base this on what temps the TiVo reports. I have no idea where it is getting the temperature from.


----------



## RichB

I received the first of two Bolt+ upgrades. The fan is loud so I will try some out this fan:
 Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 
and this one:

Fractal Design Fractal Design FDFANSSR350WT Silent Series R3 50 mm Fan Cooling FD-FAN-SSR3-50-WT 

The hear two distinct noises, the normal clicking and drive spin but mostly a loud whine. There is not much airflow coming out from the fan section.
Where do you find the TiVo current temperature?

- Rich


----------



## aaronwt

On the Sys INfo screen. UNder the Help section.


----------



## RichB

aaronwt said:


> On the Sys INfo screen. UNder the Help section.


My Roamio Pro jas an entry MBT: 40 (Mother board temp?)

The Bolt+ has an entry ODT: 65 (O-something, D-something, Temp )

- Rich


----------



## HerronScott

RichB said:


> My Roamio Pro jas an entry MBT: 40 (Mother board temp?)
> 
> The Bolt+ has an entry ODT: 65 (O-something, D-something, Temp )
> 
> - Rich


On Die Temperature

Scott


----------



## RichB

65c is much warmer than the Roamio but it is a different measurement so I guess that is ok.

- Rich


----------



## JoeKustra

RichB said:


> 65c is much warmer than the Roamio but it is a different measurement so I guess that is ok.
> 
> - Rich


Good discussion: Bolt fan and airflow


----------



## aaronwt

I ended up putting the Bolt on an Open shelf. I already had one of them on an open shelf but never thought about putting the second one on an open shelf too. With the open shelf the temperatures are 4 to 7 degrees cooler. Depending on which shelf I have it placed on. Higher is a little warmer and lower is a little cooler.


----------



## blommer

Just got in on the Bolt deal, "upgraded" from a Series 3 HD. This fan noise is unacceptable. It's whiny and sounds like it's not even balanced properly. I can't believe it, it's such an unpleasant sound, maybe the worst of any consumer media product I've used. And my model was manufactured last month so this problem should have been fixed by now. No way can I stand using this in my living room.


----------



## Mikeguy

blommer said:


> Just got in on the Bolt deal, "upgraded" from a Series 3 HD. This fan noise is unacceptable. It's whiny and sounds like it's not even balanced properly. I can't believe it, it's such an unpleasant sound, maybe the worst of any consumer media product I've used. And my model was manufactured last month so this problem should have been fixed by now. No way can I stand using this in my living room.


Sounds like TiVo still doesn't have a uniform fix down. I'd call for a replacement.


----------



## aaronwt

blommer said:


> Just got in on the Bolt deal, "upgraded" from a Series 3 HD. This fan noise is unacceptable. It's whiny and sounds like it's not even balanced properly. I can't believe it, it's such an unpleasant sound, maybe the worst of any consumer media product I've used. And my model was manufactured last month so this problem should have been fixed by now. No way can I stand using this in my living room.


That sucks. Hopefully I will plug in my new Bolts soon to hear how they sound(still on hold after 24 minutes). But if they sound loud I will either use the Fans from my Ebay Scam Bolts that can only be used for parts. Or just buy the quiet fans, mentioned earlier in the thread, from Amazon for a replacement.


----------



## leiff

My bolt hasnt shipped yet but I wonder if I can do what I did with my Romeo basic that is keep the top lid off and fan disabled? My Romeo basic has been running fine like this for years. It also had a annoying whiny fan.


----------



## RichB

I have read that the fan blow into the case. That seems odd because the exhaust hole are few and on the other side. I wonder if reversing and removing some grates might also help the efficiency.

- Rich


----------



## Quaro

I got my Bolt today and the fan is indeed somewhat annoying. It's not super loud but it has a grinding quality rather than a pure whooshing sound. I would have glady taken a bigger box to use a larger fan.

I'm not going to keep returning the Bolts until I happen to get a slightly better one when a fan costs 15 bucks online, and I'm in no rush. Interested in hearing people's results.


----------



## RichB

RichB said:


> I received the first of two Bolt+ upgrades. The fan is loud so I will try some out this fan:
> Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2


I replaced the stock fan which is taller. A couple of plastic tabs bit the dust but it was otherwise successful. The XS-2 fan is quieter and dropped to temperature from 64 to 54 (after running for 8 hours). It's a bit of a pain to replace it. The wireless board is attached by a sticky foam pad to the fan that did not reapply. I took a piece of foam and placed it on the back between the case to secure it.

The original fan is taller and louder but I think the thinner fan has more room to draw air. There is definitely more air coming out of the bottom of the case.

In case anyone is interested here is the drive included in the Bolt+.

- Rich

P.S. The Bolt+ uses 13 watts after bootup and 12 watts in standby.


----------



## aaronwt

RichB said:


> I have read that the fan blow into the case. That seems odd because the exhaust hole are few and on the other side. I wonder if reversing and removing some grates might also help the efficiency.
> 
> - Rich


The stock fan blows air out.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## RichB

aaronwt said:


> The stock fan blows air out.


Correct. I saw that posted and found it hard to believe for good reason.

Here are some shots of the stock and replacement fans.

- Rich


----------



## slongo

RichB said:


> Correct. I saw that posted and found it hard to believe for good reason.
> 
> Here are some shots of the stock and replacement fans.
> 
> - Rich


Some have said there is a bracket attached to the fan to secure it to the Tivo chassis.
If so, did you have any trouble fitting the bracket to the new fan?


----------



## RichB

slongo said:


> Some have said there is a bracket attached to the fan to secure it to the Tivo chassis.
> If so, did you have any trouble fitting the bracket to the new fan?


There is a stick foam pad that secures a small board to the fan. It comes off easily but and may not restick. I put another small foam pad behind this board to secure it. Something to restick the pad would also work.

- Rich


----------



## aaronwt

RichB said:


> There is a stick foam pad that secures a small board to the fan. It comes off easily but and may not restick. I put another small foam pad behind this board to secure it. Something to restick the pad would also work.
> 
> - Rich


You need to remove them when the TiVo is hot. They will come right off and stick back on then. Once it cools off then you run into problems.

Otherwise you could use Command Strips. I use a piece of one for the two piece that holds the wire above the hard drive. Once I put the Command Strip on them pull it off and reattach many times without issue. As long as the TiVo is hot/warm when I do it, they come right off.


----------



## aaronwt

RichB said:


> Correct. I saw that posted and found it hard to believe for good reason.
> 
> Here are some shots of the stock and replacement fans.
> 
> - Rich


Mine are supposed to show up today. Is the airflow in the right direction to be able to stick the TiVo bracket on the fan?


----------



## RichB

aaronwt said:


> Mine are supposed to show up today. Is the airflow in the right direction to be able to stick the TiVo bracket on the fan?


The flat side of the fan goes down as shown in the attached picture. That will blow out.
I used tie-wraps to fold the extra cable and place it next to the hard drive.

I'll be doing another Bolt+ tomorrow.

Fun Fact: If you take the Bolt+ into the sun, you can look at the internals.

- Rich


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## aaronwt

Wow!! What a difference. i put my first fan in and it has made a big difference in sound and temp. My temp is 7 degrees cooler than before. I running the Bolt on a wire shelf. Before it was typically 59 or 60 during normal usage and four tuners recording. Now it's at 54 or 55. Now i just need to wait for my other Bolt to heat up before I unplug it. I just put in a cable card and it had been off all day.

The only issue I ran into was not checking the way the fan power cables are run. I initially put the clip on the fan and oriented the fan the way the stock fan was. But I needed to turn it 90 degrees for the power cable. And I could not get the clip off of the fan without destroying the clip. With the stock fan the clip comes right off. Fortunately I had two extra clips from my two Bolts that I have for spare parts(from the Ebay scam that makes them worthless now)


----------



## aaronwt

I guess I just wasn't paying enough attention to the first fan I put in. I just put in the second fan and I see the fan power cable is on the same side as the stock fan. Just on opposite ends of that side.

I do wish the power cable was shorter, like on the stock fan. I used a tie wrap on the long cable and placed it on top of the hard drive. I didn't see anywhere else I could place all that slack.


----------



## Mikeguy

Does the power, etc. connector for the fans simply easily plug in somewhere?


----------



## steinbch

Mikeguy said:


> Does the power, etc. connector for the fans simply easily plug in somewhere?


The new fan has a three hole plug, but it easily fits on top of the two hole socket. You just make sure that the colors on the wires match.


----------



## George Cifranci

For what it's worth my April 3, 2017 manufactured 500GB TiVo Bolt that arrived yesterday is very quiet. I can barely hear it from my sitting position (about 9 1/2 feet away) with the TV audio muted. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tempo

Thanks to everyone here for the great advice! Here's my semi-successful troubleshooting effort:

I recently bought a new Bolt+. It ran too loud and also pretty hot (ODT=65). I sat my iPhone on top of the case and recorded some audio for future reference. 

I ordered the BlackSilentFan XS-2 (50x50x10mm). When the fan arrived I opened up the Bolt (with plenty of help from a nylon spudger) and carefully powered up the unit with the cover off. The fan was certainly audible, but most of the noise seemed to come from an electric "buzzing" sound. As a test, I pulled fan's power plug off the mother board. The fan stopped, and so did the buzzing sound. Noted.

I powered down the unit and replaced the stock fan with the BlackSilentFan. (I was able to avoid separating the little wireless board from its stretchy adhesive layer. It stuck onto the new fan easily enough.) I powered the unit back up with the cover still off. The fan did seem quieter, but the buzzing sound was still there. 

With the cover reassembled, I hooked up the Bolt to my TV, powered it up, and let it run for about 10 minutes. ODT hovered around 56 -- much cooler! I made a new iPhone audio recording (trying my best to reproduce identical recording conditions). The new fan was definitely quieter. But the DVR was still buzzy and too loud for a quiet room.

I thought maybe the buzzing sound could be eliminated by powering the fan from an external source. I opened up the DVR again, unplugged the fan's power cable, and cut off the 3-pin connector. After removing the braided outer sleeve, I threaded the three wires through the vent on the bottom of the case. Then I connected the red and black wires to the power pins of a male USB plug. (That step required some doing.) I powered up the fan while leaving the DVR power off -- no buzzing sound. Even though the fan was now being powered by a constant 5 volts from the USB source, it seemed to be spinning fast enough. (I reluctantly admit that I own one of those adjustable strobe lights that can measure RPM.)

After reassembling the cover, I plugged the makeshift USB cable into one of the Bolt's rear USB ports. I powered up the unit and repeated the audio recording process. The noise is significantly quieter. In fact, if I unplug the USB cable to stop the fan, I can barely notice any drop in noise level (i.e. the fan noise is now insignificant compared to the other sources of noise in the DVR).

My ODT is hovering around 59, so I think the constant 5 volts from the USB port is providing sufficient RPM for cooling. 

This hack was more effort than I was looking for, but the end result is a Bolt whose noise level is comparable to my TiVo HD.


----------



## Quaro

That's interesting. So it's some kind of electrical noise? I certainly hear that in mine.


----------



## aaronwt

Listen when you power the Bolt up. For the first few minutes that noise is not there. That was when I first noticed how much quieter the new fan was.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## steinbch

If anyone else is looking to try tempo's USB powered fan hack, I'm including a picture of how I did it. You can take any old USB cable, cut the cable part and use the red and black wire found inside (the other two wires are for data transfer). 

I haven't installed the adapter yet into my TiVo, but powering the old fan using this method created a fan that was relatively quiet and not audible unless 6 inches away. Hopefully tonight I'll be able to take the cover off my Bolt+ and check to see how this impacts the volume level with each fan. I do want to see what kind of power draw I'm getting from the TiVo's motherboard since I know for sure that the USB cable only gives 5v to the fan.


----------



## Redoctobyr

tempo and steinbch, thank you for sharing what you learned, and figured out. That's interesting that some of the noise may relate to how the fan is powered. 

My Bolt hasn't arrived yet. And if I've seen it mentioned somewhere here, then I forget: is the Bolt's fan speed-controlled by the TiVo? Or does it just run at a constant speed whenever the unit is on, regardless of temperature and load? 

If the TiVo can control the speed, then using a different power source will eliminate that ability. And, if the TiVo can control the speed, it's possible that the electrical noise could have something to do with how the speed is controlled. Sometimes I believe speed is controlled via PWM, Pulse Width Modulation, where it cycles the full voltage for the fan on and off very quickly, to control the speed. Perhaps that sort of behavior could cause a weird electrical noise. 

If you wanted to use a different power source, but not slow down the fan, you could use a different 12V source, rather than the USB port. Like tapping into the output of the Bolt's 12V power brick, or using another 12V power brick, just for the fan. 

You can also get speed controllers for fans, if you wanted an RPM somewhere between what 5V and 12V provide. I've seen enough people comment that the Bolt runs hot that I'm a bit leery of slowing down the fan and reducing airflow. Running warmer could contribute to earlier hardware failures.


----------



## steinbch

Redoctobyr said:


> Sometimes I believe speed is controlled via PWM, Pulse Width Modulation, where it cycles the full voltage for the fan on and off very quickly, to control the speed. Perhaps that sort of behavior could cause a weird electrical noise.


I didn't even think of that. I assumed that the fan wasn't changing speeds since the TiVo was only using the positive and negative wires. Now that I think about it, I have heard the fan go to full blast on the Bolt+, but that only has occurred during a reboot. After a few seconds it drops down to a quieter level. This might be due to the computer not regulating the power until it does some initial boot processes. I may bite the bullet and try this out and keep an eye on the temps for awhile.


----------



## tempo

Interesting theory about the board using a PWM power signal! Maybe someone who owns an o-scope can verify.

An update on my BlackSilentFan powered with 5 volts from USB: The Bolt+ is still running nice and quiet. The temperature often climbs to ODT of 62, which is slightly cooler than the temps I got with the stock fan, but not nearly as cool as I got powering the BlackSilentFan from the board. (My DVR sits on an open shelf under my TV. Good for air flow but bad for noise.)


----------



## aaronwt

steinbch said:


> I didn't even think of that. I assumed that the fan wasn't changing speeds since the TiVo was only using the positive and negative wires. Now that I think about it, I have heard the fan go to full blast on the Bolt+, but that only has occurred during a reboot. After a few seconds it drops down to a quieter level. This might be due to the computer not regulating the power until it does some initial boot processes. I may bite the bullet and try this out and keep an eye on the temps for awhile.


And maybe that is when the noise starts? With my new fans(and stock) they crank out at full speed when the TiVo first boots. But after a few minutes the fans slow down and then you can hear the other noise. No question though that the new fans I put in are quieter than the stock fans.


----------



## cherry ghost

Is the Bolt fan two pin? You need four for PWM.


----------



## aaronwt

Yes they are two pin.


----------



## m.s

cherry ghost said:


> Is the Bolt fan two pin? You need four for PWM.


No, any fan can be controlled with PWM. But, there's a problem if you also want to know the speed (tachometer output from the fan - a 3 wire fan). With a 3 wire fan, controlling the speed with PWM also causes noise in the tachometer circuit so it becomes unreliable. 4 pin fans fix that, so you can have both PWM and a tachometer output. In the case of the TiVo fan, it's a two pin one, so there's no tachometer signal to interfere with - it can be controlled with PWM without causing other problems.


----------



## steinbch

Alright everyone...I went ahead and followed Tempo's lead and made the jump to the USB powered internal fan. The difference is night and day. I'm willing to bet that the stock fan would not even be an issue with this solution. The electrical noise disappears completely when you power the fan by USB. The USB power does ultimately cause the fan's RPMs to decrease, but it didn't seem too much different than what I was getting while the fan was powered by the pins inside the TiVo (which are giving off 12v...though I'm guessing with PWM). The temperature is hovering around 57 right now with 6 different channels recording, playing an old recording and also streaming to an iPad. I'll keep an eye on it and see if much changes.

Oh yeah...I made a recording of the fans to hear the difference. Sorry for the weird camera movement mid-way through, I wanted my phone to be close to the noisy part of the circuit board for you to hear a difference.






*View of the Fan*
0:01 - 0:07 - XS2 Fan powered by internal plug
0:20 - 0:40 - XS2 Fan powered by USB

*View of the Circuit Board*
0:45 - 0:55 - XS2 Fan powered by USB
1:05 - 1:20 - XS2 Fan powered by internal plug


----------



## Redoctobyr

Interesting video, thank you. Any chance you could reconnect the fan to the internal plug, but briefly force the fan to stop spinning by putting a finger on it, for instance? I'm curious whether the fan itself is making the noise, rather than the circuit board, perhaps due to the power being turned on and off quickly (maybe making the fan sort of click when the power comes on). 

It's a question for curiosity more than anything. Regardless of which is making the noise, I don't have a suggestion for how to magically quiet it down. 

A quieter fan, like the XS-2, can obviously help. But if there is something about the onboard fan control that's causing a noise, it's possible that you could get better airflow (vs 5V USB), still with less noise than stock, by running the fan off another power source that's somewhere between 5V and 12V. 

steinbch, it's good that yours is still pretty cool even with the Bolt doing a lot of things at once. Based on your temperature, I wonder if perhaps the Bolt normally runs the fan at speeds lower than you get with 5V from USB, except with extra noise caused by the speed control? As the environment gets warmer in summer, and as fans and grates get somewhat full of dust, the temperatures might climb further. 

I know there are some computer fans with their own temperature sensors, which adjust their speed based on what they sense. If those type are available in this size, perhaps they could offer some temperature-based control, while still being quieter. 

I've heard people mention putting a fan blowing across their Minis. You could probably do that here too, a large-diameter, slow-spinning fan blowing across the Bolt's case to help a little more with cooling, with very little added noise.


----------



## steinbch

Redoctobyr said:


> Any chance you could reconnect the fan to the internal plug, but briefly force the fan to stop spinning by putting a finger on it, for instance? I'm curious whether the fan itself is making the noise, rather than the circuit board, perhaps due to the power being turned on and off quickly (maybe making the fan sort of click when the power comes on).


I didn't have it in the video, but I did stop the fan with my finger and there was still the same sound coming from the circuit board. I'm wondering if there are two different issues that people have with the fans...1) fans that are for some reason staying on full power and 2) circuit boards that are creating the feedback. I plugged in the old Bolt fan and did not notice much of a difference in the fan noise, but the circuit board feedback was still evident and annoying.


----------



## TerryFrench

Tivo Bolt + here. Noisy fan, noisier than many past Tivos, and a pain in a bedroom. I'm the "sensitive to low volume sounds", my wife doesn't seem to notice it. 
The Tivo is new, under warranty and with lifetime, so I'm quite reluctant to change it for now, as this is the first Tivo I own I won't upgrade (HD). 
Some cheap PWM speed modulation would make sense, and like any PWM controller, can induce some audible buzz. Basically harmonics of the frequency used for the PWM (or direct frequency if it's say less than 20kHz.). Add a case made of plastic and the acoustics might be "just right". 
Very disappointing on their top of the line model.


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## slongo

TerryFrench said:


> Tivo Bolt + here. Noisy fan, noisier than many past Tivos, and a pain in a bedroom. I'm the "sensitive to low volume sounds", my wife doesn't seem to notice it.
> The Tivo is new, under warranty and with lifetime, so I'm quite reluctant to change it for now, as this is the first Tivo I own I won't upgrade (HD).
> Some cheap PWM speed modulation would make sense, and like any PWM controller, can induce some audible buzz. Basically harmonics of the frequency used for the PWM (or direct frequency if it's say less than 20kHz.). Add a case made of plastic and the acoustics might be "just right".
> Very disappointing on their top of the line model.


Right about the cheap plastic case. If a place my hand on top of the Bolt, I can quiet the noise almost entirely which suggests to me either the fan itself or fan control (PWM?) is transmitting a resonance to the case. I wonder if better isolating the component (whatever it might be) from the case or some kind of acoustic damping material would be enough to make the noise tolerable. Disappoints me we have to deal with this stuff ...


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## Redoctobyr

One test could be to run the fan with it removed from the case. Just hold the fan in your hand, and see if the noise changes, if it can't transfer vibration to the case. 

I've wondered about elevating the Bolt slightly, and putting a piece of carpet or something below it on the shelf. Something that could help absorb some of the noise, without insulating the case, causing it to run warmer. 

If the noise was less annoying when running the fan from an external 12V supply, vs the internal fan header, then you'd get less noise, and more airflow, by just running the fan at full speed on a simple 12V. TiVo won't run it any faster than giving the fan a full 12V, so you wouldn't have to worry about ever starving the Bolt for airflow. 

Laying something heavy on top of the case, maybe sandwiching a sheet of rubber for vibration damping, would also be straightforward to try.


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## steinbch

Redoctobyr said:


> One test could be to run the fan with it removed from the case. Just hold the fan in your hand, and see if the noise changes, if it can't transfer vibration to the case.


I tried that as well. The original fan is slightly noisier than the upgraded fans a bunch of us were buying, but in no way was it louder than the buzzing on the circuit board. It definitely seems like people are having two different problems with the TiVo fans. I wonder if those of us with the PWM buzzing have a slightly updated board to try and fix the fans that were running too loudly? My buzzing Tivo is a Bolt+ with a build date in August 2016.


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## aaronwt

steinbch said:


> I tried that as well. The original fan is slightly noisier than the upgraded fans a bunch of us were buying, but in no way was it louder than the buzzing on the circuit board. It definitely seems like people are having two different problems with the TiVo fans. I wonder if those of us with the PWM buzzing have a slightly updated board to try and fix the fans that were running too loudly? My buzzing Tivo is a Bolt+ with a build date in August 2016.


The buzzing from my two 2017 Bolts is louder than the buzzing from the five 2015 Bolts I owned. Something must have changed with the Bolt at some point .

I also wonder exactly what causes the buzzing. Because the buzzing is not there until several minutes into the boot up process. But this has always been the case with all seven Bolts I have owned.

But right now I am pleased with the Blacksilent fans I installed and the better cooling and it still being quieter, even with the buzzing.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Redoctobyr

If the buzzing appeared when the fan speed first slows down, that could make sense. At full speed, a PWM-controlled fan is essentially just a "normal" fan. The fan is always getting power, it's never being cycled on/off. 

I'm not an electrical engineer, and this is only a mental exercise, NOT a suggestion. But I wonder what would happen if you put a very small capacitor on the board's fan output. It would likely kind of smooth out the PWM pulses, making them less abrupt. I wonder if that could help the noise at all. 

If this was on a separate, cheap component, I'd be curious to try it. But not when it's something built into the expensive motherboard. I don't know enough about this to evaluate the risk of damaging something. 

Someone much cleverer than I could probably design a circuit to take the (assumed) PWM signal, and turn it into something like a variable-voltage output. To allow controlling the fan speed using the same input, but a different method to the fan.


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## danm628

Redoctobyr said:


> I'm not an electrical engineer, and this is only a mental exercise, NOT a suggestion. But I wonder what would happen if you put a very small capacitor on the board's fan output. It would likely kind of smooth out the PWM pulses, making them less abrupt. I wonder if that could help the noise at all.


Here is a white paper on reducing noise from a PWM fan. They suggest a capacitor but it is upstream of the transistor doing the power switching. That reduces the slew at the fan and reduces the noise.

The white paper also says the value of the capacitor is dependent on the actual fan, enclosure, etc. so it must be determined experimentally.

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00771b.pdf

Edit: A little more hunting found a suggestion to lower the PWM frequency to reduce the fan noise. It's possible TiVo made a change in the PWM frequency in the newer units.


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## BobCamp1

cherry ghost said:


> Is the Bolt fan two pin? You need four for PWM.


There's a PWM fan port on the Tivo Bolt. It's right next to 2-pin header for the fan. I can see it in the video, right next to the thumb, at the end of the video.

So why isn't Tivo using it? Did Tivo just cheap out on just the fan, or is that port inactive anyway?

There should be a +12 VDC pin on that PWM header. If you put the right resistor or a few diodes in series with it, you could knock the fan speed down manually even if that port isn't active. Or just buy a fan controller (though I don't know if there's enough room for a potentiometer-type device).

Doing that the way Tivo is with a 2 pin fan header will usually generate a little noise, even if it's just lowering the voltage. But I'm surprised it's that noisy.


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## slongo

danm628 said:


> Here is a white paper on reducing noise from a PWM fan. They suggest a capacitor but it is upstream of the transistor doing the power switching. That reduces the slew at the fan and reduces the noise.
> 
> The white paper also says the value of the capacitor is dependent on the actual fan, enclosure, etc. so it must be determined experimentally.
> 
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00771b.pdf
> 
> Edit: A little more hunting found a suggestion to lower the PWM frequency to reduce the fan noise. It's possible TiVo made a change in the PWM frequency in the newer units.


The change appears to be a combination of capacitor and resistor to be sized for best results. I'm a bit leery of tapping into the circuit upstream of the switching transistor to add the resistor as it might involve cutting a PCB trace (cringe), or lifting that leg (another cringe). Adding the capacitor is less invasive, with one side going to ground.

[Edit]
It may be a resistor is already in place as described in that document, in which case this is an exercise of sizing the capacitor appropriately to that resistor.


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## BobCamp1

danm628 said:


> Here is a white paper on reducing noise from a PWM fan. They suggest a capacitor but it is upstream of the transistor doing the power switching. That reduces the slew at the fan and reduces the noise.
> 
> The white paper also says the value of the capacitor is dependent on the actual fan, enclosure, etc. so it must be determined experimentally.
> 
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00771b.pdf
> 
> Edit: A little more hunting found a suggestion to lower the PWM frequency to reduce the fan noise. It's possible TiVo made a change in the PWM frequency in the newer units.





slongo said:


> The change appears to be a combination of capacitor and resistor to be sized for best results. I'm a bit leery of tapping into the circuit upstream of the switching transistor to add the resistor as it might involve cutting a PCB trace (cringe), or lifting that leg (another cringe). Adding the capacitor is less invasive, with one side going to ground.
> 
> [Edit]
> It may be a resistor is already in place as described in that document, in which case this is an exercise of sizing the capacitor appropriately to that resistor.


I agree that a resistor should already be there.

You should be able to put that RC circuit on the collector of the transistor, which means just putting it across the header pins. The problem is, if the noise source is the transistor itself, and it sounds like it is, that won't help.

You can solder (and I just lost everybody) that capacitor between the base and emitter pins of that transistor, if you can find it.

***BUT***, that's not the circuit that's generating the noise. If the two-pin fan header is generating noise, that's not PWM, that's just a noisy voltage regulator that doesn't like working at lower voltages. There's no quick fix for that except to not use it. The fan needs to draw power from somewhere else, like the USB port or that PWM header.


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## steinbch

For those that are comfortable with the 5v USB powering either fan, this may be a cheap alternative to needing to splice wires and solder (and only $8 on Amazon)...
USB to 3/4-Pin PWM 5V USB Sleeved Fan Power Adapter Cable

I may try and use a 10V AC adapter I have laying around if I see the temperature going up too much. By the end of the night the temperature hit 61, which is lower than some of the extreme circumstances I've seen around TCF, but much higher than the 54 I was hovering at with the new fan wired as intended.


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## danm628

BobCamp1 said:


> There's a PWM fan port on the Tivo Bolt. It's right next to 2-pin header for the fan. I can see it in the video, right next to the thumb, at the end of the video.
> 
> So why isn't Tivo using it? Did Tivo just cheap out on just the fan, or is that port inactive anyway?
> 
> There should be a +12 VDC pin on that PWM header. If you put the right resistor or a few diodes in series with it, you could knock the fan speed down manually even if that port isn't active. Or just buy a fan controller (though I don't know if there's enough room for a potentiometer-type device).
> 
> Doing that the way Tivo is with a 2 pin fan header will usually generate a little noise, even if it's just lowering the voltage. But I'm surprised it's that noisy.


The 4 pin PWM port just makes the tachometer work with separate power to it. Having the tachometer powered by the PWM fan line causes the tachometer to fail (or be inaccurate). Lots of systems use PWM but don't use the tachometer. TiVo decided to not use the tachometer in their PWM fan controller setup. That doesn't bother me at all.


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## BobCamp1

danm628 said:


> The 4 pin PWM port just makes the tachometer work with separate power to it. Having the tachometer powered by the PWM fan line causes the tachometer to fail (or be inaccurate). Lots of systems use PWM but don't use the tachometer. TiVo decided to not use the tachometer in their PWM fan controller setup. That doesn't bother me at all.


I also don't care if the tachometer is used or not. You are correct that the PWM can screw up the tachometer in 3 pin fans. To compensate, they very briefly spike to full voltage several times a second to get a proper reading. But that can cause clicking or other weird noises. I don't like that Tivo seems to be using PWM on a 2-pin fan header. Maybe they aren't, and there's just a noisy voltage regulator in there. Either way, there's something wrong with that 2-pin fan header.

PWM fans are designed for PWM and typically have filters in them (like the very basic RC circuit above) to minimize noise and clicking. 2-pin fans are not. Regulating the speed of a 2-pin fan using constant, lower DC voltage is quieter than PWM though it does have a negative effect on fan longevity.

So what happens if one uses a PWM fan on the PWM header? Is the speed controlled correctly? Does the buzzing noise go away?


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## Redoctobyr

A user here on the forum sent me a PM, saying they had checked the fan output on their Bolt with an oscilloscope, and that it *is* a PWM method of control, rather than voltage regulation. So hopefully that helps answer the question of how the speed is being controlled, despite the fan only having 2 wires.

I found some info here about PWM fans, which I thought was interesting: 
What is PWM and how does it work? - ekwb.com

I was wondering if perhaps you could use a 4-wire PWM fan, since some apparently have features to run more quietly/smoothly using a PWM signal. Unfortunately, a spec that I found here says that the PWM signal itself must be 5V, not 12V: 
http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/4_wire_pwm_spec.pdf

So you couldn't use the existing 12V wire for the fan, and connect it to the signal wire of a 4-wire PWM fan. You'd need to do something like take the existing 12V wire, and lower the voltage to 5V, to use it as the PWM signal wire for a 4-wire fan. Then you'd need to use another "normal" 12V source to actually power the new fan. This might allow using a "proper" 4-wire PWM fan, and still getting automatic speed control, but it would still be kind of a hassle.

If there's a way to make/buy an adapter that could turn the 12V PWM fan supply into a variable-voltage output, that would allow using more or less any fan. I'm curious to see how loud the XS-2 fan is when running at 12V, for instance. If it's not bad, then you could just run it at full power the whole time, or use a variable-voltage controller to reduce it to an acceptable noise level.


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## Quaro

I wonder if Tivo could increase the default fan speed curve and actually lower overall noise output, by reducing or eliminating that electrical grinding from the PWM.


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## aaronwt

They could probably do a lot of things. But considering the Bolt has been out since October 2015 and the issue has been there from the beginning, I doubt anything would happen.


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## cherry ghost

I'm guessing that 4-pin header won't power a fan and/or isn't intended to be used with a fan. There's a similar 3-pin header on S3s(opened mine yesterday) that doesn't power a fan of any kind.


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## Redoctobyr

First off, I think this has been a really interesting discussion so far, and productive. I'm hoping we can avoid it dissolving into personal attacks, or anything like that.

Second, I'm not an EE, so please forgive dumb questions.



BobCamp1 said:


> Somebody here just used an o-scope to verify it's "PWM" on the 2-pin header. Which is bad for several reasons. Mainly because that's not technically PWM. That's probably voltage modulation, which can kill the fan and be really noisy.
> ...
> Maybe that person meant to say "voltage regulation", where the amplitude is raised and lowered. But that would look like a flat line on an o-scope, not a waveform. I could take apart my wife's Bolt and use my personal o-scope to verify that (I have the "noisy" Bolt), but my wife would kill me. So I would also like more information as to what's going on with that 2-pin fan header.


Can you explain what you mean by this maybe being voltage modulation, vs PWM? Do you mean sort of a technicality, because PWM fan control is supposed be kind of the 5V *signal* for turning on and off, while a constant, separate, voltage is supplied for actual power? Rather than turning the single supply voltage on/off?

(I'd always thought PWM by itself was a somewhat generic term, regardless of voltage, switching rate, etc. In another hobby, the brushless motor speeds are controlled by PWM control of the supply voltage (whether 12V, 24V, etc), controlled by the electronic speed controller. This switching rate can occur at different frequencies, I believe, based on how the ESC is configured)

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by voltage modulation. If you meaning turning the 12V on and off for different amounts of time, then I get it. If you mean something else, then I'm afraid I'm not following.

I do have an old oscilloscope. If I can do it safely (no risk of shorting things), and without making permanent changes to the Bolt & fan (eg- I don't want to strip insulation off the stock fan, in case I had to send it in for warranty), then I'm willing to check this again, if people think there is a real risk of us misunderstanding what's actually happening.

But the user who PM'd me seemed fairly clear that it was a PWM style of control. I presume the 12V being cycled on and off for different amounts of time. I didn't get the impression that they meant that the fan is getting 4V some times, 7V other times, etc, based on the intended fan speed.



> 2. Is the 4-pin PWM header driven by a different circuit than the 2-pin header? In other words, is it a true PWM implementation on that 4-pin header? If so, that's the answer to fixing the noise. Buy a 4-pin true PWM fan.


I haven't gotten mine yet, nor looked at close-up pics of the board. But I thought the person meant that maybe there were just pins, but they didn't have an actual connector on them, so they're not quite ready to use. If I misinterpreted, and it really is a ready-to-use fan plug, then that would be interesting. A scope could help show if there is a 5V PWM signal on the proper pin.

Edit: Found a pic that appears to show a "full"-looking header near the current fan plug. So maybe it is a "complete" plug after all. That doesn't guarantee that it's electrically safe/ready to use, unfortunately. 
TiVo Bolt Teardown
https://fictiv-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/spotlights/tivo/tivo_14.jpg



> 3. Is the case making things worse? Is the noise resonating within the case causing it to be even louder? Would adding foam to the inner part of the case help with that?


It sounds like there might be an improvement available here. But you'd need to balance this with adding thermal insulation, possibly making the box run warmer.

One possible workaround to all of this could be ducting a larger fan to the existing opening in the case, on the outside. A larger fan can turn more slowly, more quietly, to move the same amount of air. If there was a good way to non-destructively add one to the outside of the case, we could maybe get more cooling, and less noise, than any internal fan can provide.


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## steinbch

BobCamp1 said:


> 3. Is the case making things worse? Is the noise resonating within the case causing it to be even louder? Would adding foam to the inner part of the case help with that?


I can tell you from my playing around with it on Wednesday that the case adds a minimal amount of noise compared to the noise coming from the circuit board.

After two days of use, I'm still hovering around 59-61 ODT with the USB powering the fan...and the Bolt+ as a whole is as quiet as any other TiVo I've used.


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## Mikeguy

m.s said:


> As well you should....since it obviously doesn't indicate any particular level of knowledge.
> 
> The rest, tl;dr.


Feels like a piling on of Howard Wolowitz.


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## HerronScott

BobCamp1 said:


> Somebody here just used an o-scope to verify it's "PWM" on the 2-pin header. Which is bad for several reasons. Mainly because that's not technically PWM. That's probably voltage modulation, which can kill the fan and be really noisy. That's the "a-ha" moment I had as to why the Tivo fan might be noisy. But as you say it's cheap to do, although it's not typically done in PCs to my knowledge. Maybe that person meant to say "voltage regulation", where the amplitude is raised and lowered. But that would look like a flat line on an o-scope, not a waveform.


2004 article discussing 2-wire fans and low frequency PWM (and other forms of fan speed control with advantages and disadvantages.) 

Why and How to Control Fan Speed for Cooling Electronic Equipment | Analog Devices

Scott


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## Redoctobyr

If we assumed that the 4-pin header could actually work for a PWM fan, does anyone know if a quiet, 4-wire PWM fan exists in the correct size? I did some quick searching earlier, and wasn't coming up with much for 50mm PWM fans.


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## Redoctobyr

My Noiseblocker XS-2 fan arrived the other day, though my Bolt still hasn't shipped yet. To get a sense of how loud the fan is, I fired it up tonight.

I used a variable-voltage power supply, so I tried feeding it a range from 5V, up to 12V. It will likely seem louder when mounted in the Bolt's case (resonance, airflow noise, etc), but I was very pleasantly surprised at how quiet it is. At 5V it was effectively silent. Even at 12V, I still had to get quite close to fan to really hear it. It certainly didn't give the impression of something that would be noticeable across the room.

So if there's a good 12V source inside the case, I might try to simply power it that way. From my brief test (not perfect, certainly), it doesn't _seem_ like it would be loud even running full-speed at a constant 12V. And it would completely avoid the electronic buzzing sound from the board, courtesy of not using the 2-pin fan header.

Worst-case, I could try to draw power from something else, even a second external 12V supply. I'd prefer to avoid making any permanent changes inside the Bolt, such as soldering to something. I can check for 12V on those 4-pin headers, but then it's a question of whether they're capable of actually powering a fan safely (I have no idea what's feeding them, and what current draw they can handle).

If I got a male and female set of the proper round plugs, I suppose I could make a "pass-through" for the stock power supply's output. Something I could put between the PS output and the Bolt, allowing me to tap into the 12V from the normal power supply. This would avoid one risk of using a 2nd supply for the fan, which is the second supply failing, shutting off the fan, while leaving the Bolt running.


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## steinbch

Redoctobyr said:


> If I got a male and female set of the proper round plugs, I suppose I could make a "pass-through" for the stock power supply's output.


If you find the right plug, please post here. The 5V USB is keeping my Bolt safe at 61, by I like your thinking. Agree with the noise of the XS2 fan. To me the hard drive gives off more noise than the fan.


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## Redoctobyr

This thread references a BenQ monitor power supply, which someone said he used for his Bolt:
Alternate power adapter for bolt

That eBay listing shows a plug size of:
"DC connecter size: internal diameter: 2.5mm, external diameter: 5.5mm"

I don't yet have a supply to measure. But assuming that's correct, this looks like it could work as a $6 female-to-male extension, which could provide a means to non-destructively tap into the stock supply's output, to draw power from it:
"5' ft DC Power Extension 2.5mm X 5.5mm Cord/Cable CCTV Extender Male to Female"
5' ft DC Power Extension 2.5mm X 5.5mm Cord/Cable CCTV Extender Male to Female

Or, on Amazon, with free shipping (over a certain order amount, and not eligible for Prime, sadly), $3: 
Amazon.com : kenable 5.5 x 2.5mm DC Power Plug to Socket CCTV Extension Lead Cable 1.5m (~5 feet) : Camera & Photo


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## idksmy

I've read all the posts and might have missed it but has someone documented all the steps to replace the fan?


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## aaronwt

idksmy said:


> I've read all the posts and might have missed it but has someone documented all the steps to replace the fan?


There really isn't much to it. Remove the two pin fan connector from the motherboard. Remove the two screws attaching the fan. Then pry the adapter off of the fan and clip it onto the new fan.

And if I remember correctly, the 3 pin XS-2 fan connector had the unused wired on the side of the fan.

And I put the extra cable from the new fan on top of the hard drive. Since the wire to the power connector is so long. Not sure what other people did with it. But that seemed like the only place I had space for it.


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## tempo

I followed the same steps as arronwt describes. The only other trick is the little wireless board stuck to the side of the fan. You have to pull it loose before you can access the screw underneath. I used a spudger (though a butter knife would suffice) to pull the stretchy adhesive away from the fan while keeping it attached to the foam block. Keep the adhesive clear of dust and debris while you replace the fan, and it should stick back onto the new fan pretty well.

One thing I forgot to do was snap some photos of everything before I started futzing with it! It's always helpful to have a record of the original configuration.


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## aaronwt

I forgot about that wireless board. It comes off very easily if the TiVo is still hot. And can also be easily put back on. If the TiVo has been off awhile and is cold, removal and replacement will be an issue.


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## opus123

I'll be moving pretty slowly, so to avoid rushing while the Tivo is hot, i'm hoping running a hair-dryer will suffice to warm/loosen the adhesive.


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## leiff

Yes my new bolt is loud. How about running this thing without a lid maybe even without the fan? My roamio basic runs without a top lid for years with fan disabled still runs great. Temps stay about the same. I had no reason to open my new bolt because I don't plan on upgrading the harddrive


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## Redoctobyr

Mine hasn't arrived yet. But I get the impression that the lid helps guide the air to flow over the areas that get hot. So removing the lid might mean that some things suddenly get less cooling. Remember that the reported temperature is just for a single location in the box, it doesn't guarantee that other areas may not be getting hotter.

I'd be concerned about removing the lid and disabling the fan.

But one "compromise" option might to remove the lid, disable the internal fan, and use an external fan to blow air across the unit. An external fan can be larger diameter, and therefore spin more slowly and quietly, while moving as much air (or more) than the stock fan.


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## steinbch

Just an update on my fan (XS-2) running from the USB power (5V instead of 12V) after nearly 2 weeks...

My TiVo temps still hover around 59-63 through various workloads. The only noise I hear coming from the TiVo is the noise of the hard drive spinning. 100% happy with the modification and wish I did it months earlier. 

I really believe that most people would be fine keeping the same TiVo fan and merely powering it externally. Requires minimal modification with just finding a way to get the fan power plug out of the case. Taking the Bolt case off permanently will not in any way help if you are experiencing the electronic buzzing that was the issue in my Bolt.


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## idksmy

Bolt on a wood shelf, the top, front, back and sides of the Bolt are open, i.e., nothing to restrict air flow, new fan, recording 4 shows and watching a recording = ODT = 62 or 63.

When the four recordings ended; 62

I thought it'd drop more, although I admit not having monitored temps prior to this.


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## tempo

If you're trying to get the processor to do some heavy lifting, recording multiple shows is probably not very heavy lift. After all, the DVR is constantly recording a 30-minute buffer on each tuner.

For what it's worth: I saw the biggest jump in my ODT when I transferred programs from another TiVo. (I was connected via Wi-Fi, though I don't know if that matters.) After about 20 minutes of continuous transfer, I saw a noticeable jump in temperature.


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## Redoctobyr

That's a good point. Transferring to a computer might be even more demanding? If transferring to a TiVo (at least if streaming to a Mini, for instance), it may only need to send the data fast enough to play it live. But if transferring to a PC, it has to encrypt the data (at least, that's the impression I get), and also has to push the data as fast as possible. 

At least with my network, wired Ethernet is faster than WiFi, so transferring that way might stress the Bolt more. 

One thought, especially as the seasons start changing: it might be useful to have a sense of the room temperature, in addition to ODT, if trying to compare. The person testing in late spring in Florida may be running in different conditions than the person testing in Wisconsin in winter.


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## Burdy

My new Bolt+ typically shows 65-66 in a 72F room. When I noticed it showed 70 I was concerned enough to see if the fan was still spinning (it was). Then noticed the system information screen showed it was processing guide data after a connection. A few minutes later when it had finished the temperature had dropped back to the levels I typically observe. Probably doing a file transfer while processing guide data would push the thermal envelope of this machine.


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## Redoctobyr

That's good info, thanks. Can you still force a guide data update, like you could with the older machines? You could start a file transfer, then also start a guide update, to see how bad things got. 

My Bolt should arrive today, I'm hoping to set it up tomorrow, then I can start exploring this a bit myself.


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## leiff

I've just mentioned this in a couple other threads but so all can see my positive results I'm going with fan disabled and lid removed my temps are 10 degrees cooler and everything is nice and silent..
I did manage to break some of the plastic safety hinges by accident. take care when lifting the smaller lid compartment off of the hard drive and fan portion of the bolt that needs to be lifted vertically to avoid snapping off and breaking the little plastic things.


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## danm628

leiff said:


> I did manage to break some of the plastic safety hinges by accident. take care when lifting the smaller lid compartment off of the hard drive and fan portion of the bolt that needs to be lifted vertically to avoid snapping off and breaking the little plastic things.


It's safer to just use a spludger to unsnap each connector all the way around the lid. Then it just lifts off cleanly.


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## aaronwt

danm628 said:


> It's safer to just use a spludger to unsnap each connector all the way around the lid. Then it just lifts off cleanly.


It comes off cleanly with out using a spludger. I just rip off the part that goes around the entire Bolt. It comes off in less than two seconds. I've done it over two dozen times, with seven Bolts, without any issues.


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## Redoctobyr

If I don't have a spludger, any suggestions? Maybe use an old credit card, something like that? I'd rather not damage the clips, if possible.


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## danm628

Redoctobyr said:


> If I don't have a spludger, any suggestions? Maybe use an old credit card, something like that? I'd rather not damage the clips, if possible.


A butter knife would work. Just be really gentle.

As aaronwt said it can be done with out popping them first. I found it easier to do with the spludger.


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## leiff

Redoctobyr said:


> If I don't have a spludger, any suggestions? Maybe use an old credit card, something like that? I'd rather not damage the clips, if possible.[/


 if you lift the smaller bolt compartment (above harddrive/fan)straight up they wont break them off like I did. I torked the lid too much to the side when removing it. That's the only part where my Clips broke is the small compartment above fan/t hard drive which comes off on a smaller section.


----------



## Redoctobyr

I set up my 500GB Bolt two days ago. In ambient temperatures of around 65F (18C), my ODT is hovering around 69-71C. This seems warm to me. 

Now, it is on top of my DVD player, which is on the receiver. And it has maybe 1" to the underside of the shelf above it. So this is not an ideal location for helping it stay cool. Once I take out my Series2, the Bolt will sit on its own shelf, with more airspace, and further from the other warm equipment. 

My fan is spinning, and it is quiet, in my opinion. I think I'd be OK with even the full-speed noise of my stock fan, the speed at the beginning of the boot-up process. I can hear some of the "buzzing" noise start once the fan slows down. In terms of ambient noise, I also have an HTPC by the TV, so there is already some fan noise in the room, and it's not in a bedroom (I'll be putting a Mini there). So my tolerance for noise may be higher than some. 

I have the Noiseblocker XS-2 fan, which I may install when I open the case to upgrade the drive.


----------



## lessd

*FYI* I just put a 1" cardboard spacer under all the Bolt legs, removed the cable card cover, and the temp went down about 7 degrees, easy. It was 71 degrees, it now 64 degrees. My Comcast cable card runs over 101 degrees F with the cover off as measured with a inferred red temp unit I own.


----------



## Redoctobyr

I just installed my Noiseblocker XS-2. I was hoping to find an easy, constant-12V power source inside the case, for running a fan (even the stock one) at full speed, for better cooling. 

Unfortunately, the empty 4-pin header is something else, none of the pins are 12V. Starting by the "C2414" mark on the board (away from the hard drive), the pins measured 5V, 4.75V, 0V, and 3.3V. 

However, the hard drive power connector does supply 12V. A short extension cable with that style plug at both ends would allow tapping into the 12V supply, without making any permanent changes to the Bolt or its components. 

Does anyone know what that 4-pin plug is? I'm going to speculate that perhaps it's a 4-pin PWM fan connector. Using an extension for a 4-pin fan cable, in-between the motherboard and the hard drive's power connector, might allow grabbing 12V power. You could modify the extension to tap into the 12V wires, while eliminating the need to make any permanent modifications to the TiVo-supplied components. Thereby making it reversible. 

Perhaps even better than an extension cable would be a splitter cable, then you might not even have to modify the cable. Maybe you could just plug the HD into one plug, and the fan into the 12V pins of the second plug.

Regardless of whether using an extension or a splitter, in theory, this would: 
- Allow using the stock fan, or a quieter replacement. 
- Run them at full-speed, for max cooling (unlike powering them via USB, which provides 5V, and locks them into a lower speed, and therefore reduced cooling). 
- Avoid the buzzing sound from the motherboard caused by it controlling the speed of the fan using the normal 2-pin connector, since you'd no longer be using that connector.


----------



## Redoctobyr

I ordered this splitter from Newegg, $3 with free shipping (from China):

Black Net Jacket Sleeved 6 inch 1 to 2 Motherboard PWM Fan 4-pin Power Splitter Hub Adapter Cable - Newegg.com
"Black Net Jacket Sleeved 6 inch 1 to 2 Motherboard PWM Fan 4-pin Power Splitter Hub Adapter Cable"

It's a 4-pin PWM fan splitter, 6" long. It's fairly-thick wires, they say 22AWG, vs 26AWG on another that I checked. Most cables are 12" long, but this one will take up less space, and will cause less electrical resistance for the hard drive's power.

These cables apparently have 4-pins for one half of the Y, and 3-pins (in a 4-pin plug) for the other half. Having 4 pins on both would create conflicting tachometer signals, so they omit the tachometer signal pin from one plug.

So the 4-pin would need to go to the hard drive, and the 3-pin would need to be used for the fan, with it connected to the red & black wires.

Hopefully once it arrives, I'll have the ability to try running the fan at 12V.


----------



## Redoctobyr

I've had the XS-2 installed for several days now. I'm impressed with the performance. With the stock 500GB drive, and stock fan, my temps typically hovered between 68-71C. Since installing the XS-2, and the 3TB Toshiba (which apparently draws about twice the power of the 500GB) they have been more like 55-58C. I think it might have 62C once when I checked. 

But the temperatures have reduced significantly. The ambient temperatures in the room have been fairly consistent, around 65F (18C), though the last few days may be a little cooler than when I had the Bolt running with the stock fan. But a few hours after upgrading the fan, the reported temps were already lower than they'd been with the stock fan.


----------



## Mikeguy

I guess I've been lucky despite having been suitably spooked by posts on the fan/noise/temp. issues here, but with the original fan in place in a new Bolt with original 500GB hard drive (April 2017 manf. date), my box temps have ranged from 58 to a rare high of 64 (the latter with continuous show transfers taking place), with an average of 58-59 during "quiet" periods (no show transfers occurring) and 62 or 63 during "busy" periods (continuous show transfers); room temperature generally has been around 72-74°F., but getting as warm as 81°F.

The Bolt is sitting on a solid surface, exposed on all sides (but the bottom) but sitting on sharkster supports at each corner.* The supports may be lowering the temp by a degree.

Sound-wise, I can just hear the box (seemingly, the fan) from 9' away in a smallish, totally quiet room (I think I'm fairly sensitive to sound); the sound is no more or a bit less than that from a Roamio (hard to compare, as the Bolt has a higher-pitched sound than the Roamio) and does not have the more mechanical sounds I hear from my Series 2. If the Bolt was in a media center enclosure open in back but with a glass door front, I would not hear it at all.

Simply as a comparison point. Originally, given posts here, I was thinking that perhaps I should consider a replacement--but then, when I actually compared the Bolt to a Roamio, I'm thinking that I'm doing well.

By the way, despite what I had thought, I'm starting to groove with the Bolt's white color. Nice as a change, and clean-looking. (Also, will be harder to see dust on it, lol!) And please don't banish me, but I'm liking the angled shape as well--again, clean-looking, and a change. The one thing I wish had been brought over from the Roamio: the indicator on the front showing multiple recordings taking place, and the number, rather than simply a single recording indicator dot.

*As suggested by forum member sharkster here: recycled water bottle bottle caps. Daily Guide Updates. Looks great--kind of like original "equipment"--and low-profile/unobtrusive (I'm using low-profile, clear/milky bottle caps from Costco Kirkland water bottles, recycled from my local park's tennis courts and public library)--recommended (and a nice enviro touch)!


----------



## opus123

I wasn't unhappy with fan noise, but after swapping in the Toshiba 3TB (which makes more noise on occasion), I felt the XS-2 was needed to ventilate any extra heat. I don't think i had 'noisy' stock fans, but I feel the extra height (over the shorter XS-2) inhibits airflow. The bundled up extra cord of XS-2 isn't great, but overall an improvement over the stock fan configuration.


----------



## richsadams

Just received a brand new Bolt+ yesterday and initially it was silent. Came in this a.m. and a high-pitched humming noise is fully audible from 15ft. across the room. Rebooted it and the fan went into high-gear as expected then settled into the same annoying high-pitched hum state as others have described.

I've read through most of the posts here and posted my issue on a similar thread here. Apologies for the semi-cross post but I'd like to resolve this before pairing the cable card.

At the moment it's sitting on a wide-open glass shelf, so plenty of ventilation. The ODT is 63.

Consensus seems to be some are noisy while some are silent? Some have returned theirs and received replacements that are silent, but some just as noisy? Crap shoot?

What would the experts here recommend? Return it for a replacement (I do NOT want a refurb)? Just replace the fan?

TIA!

EDIT: Initially I didn't think it was fan noise I was hearing. Putting my ear right over the fan, I can hear it of course, but it seems like the "humming" is coming from elsewhere. After reading a few posts about the PWM/circuit board noise possibility I'm leaning more toward just returning this unit and hoping a new one is quieter.

Build date is October 8, 2016...so it's going on a year old already.


----------



## steinbch

richsadams said:


> What would the experts here recommend? Return it for a replacement (I do NOT want a refurb)? Just replace the fan?
> 
> EDIT: Initially I didn't think it was fan noise I was hearing. Putting my ear right over the fan, I can hear it of course, but it seems like the "humming" is coming from elsewhere. After reading a few posts about the PWM/circuit board noise possibility I'm leaning more toward just returning this unit and hoping a new one is quieter.


Replacing the fan won't get rid of the noise. I had the exact same issue. Using either the regular fan (or one of the replacements mentioned), I have the fan powered by the USB port on the back of the Bolt. It's been running strong for months now (61 ODT) and the humming is non-existent.


----------



## richsadams

steinbch said:


> Replacing the fan won't get rid of the noise. I had the exact same issue. Using either the regular fan (or one of the replacements mentioned), I have the fan powered by the USB port on the back of the Bolt. It's been running strong for months now (61 ODT) and the humming is non-existent.


 That's a brilliant hack...checked it out earlier.

As you can imagine, I'm a little (a lot?) reluctant to tear into a brand new box and start messing with things. My apprehension isn't about doing it, I used to build PCs from scratch and have hacked almost every TiVo we've had since the Series1. It's the numerous posts I've read from people saying that their Bolt+ is almost silent. So it seems quiet ones exist.

Plus, although I got our new Bolt+ on the recent "upgrade" deal, it's still a chunk of change spent and I feel like I shouldn't have to put up with noise or have to hack it to make it work as it should.

In the end if I have to hack it, I probably would do it, probably in steps; replace the fan and if that doesn't do it, go for the "Full Monty" as you've suggested.

Decisions, decisions.


----------



## richsadams

So I've gotten several replies to my noise questions on the other two threads. This one seems to have hit the nail on the head. They suggested stopping the fan temporarily to see if the noise stops. I did. It did not.

Soooo...I'm off to call TiVo support to try to get a new replacement unit shipped. Wish me luck!


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## opus123

hmmm... always though the whining sound was unavoidable while the fan was powered by the circuit board. my unit certainly has it, but think most people don't notice based on the distance/configuration of their AV gear. personally i'm good with the replaced fan pushing more air, and don't hear the whine from my viewing position. What i do hear is the Toshiba 3TB drive, so wonder if that's the beginning of things to come.


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## richsadams

TiVo's sending a replacement Bolt+. I told the CSR what the problem was and he didn't seem surprised, just routine. His troubleshooting script asked that I unplug the TiVo for a moment and plug it back in, then let him know if the sound was still present. He asked if I had done that already and I told him that I had a few times but that I'd be happy to do it again. He said that wasn't necessary and that's all he needed to initiate a return. He killed me with kindness while we walked through the RMA process.

So the TiVo's on the way back to Texas and a new one to arrive one of these days.

I'll post back about my experience with the replacement. Fingers crossed it's one of the silent types.

Thanks to all for the continued great support!

Cheers,

Rich


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## opus123

Sounds like a good deal... best of luck to you on the new unit Rich.


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> Sounds like a good deal... best of luck to you on the new unit Rich.


Cheers for that. :thumbsup: We'll see how it goes!


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## richsadams

Risking a cross-post here, but wanted to follow up on my earlier "noise complaint". 

The replacement TiVo Bolt arrived yesterday. Although without placing them side-by-side I can't be sure but I'd say this one is slightly less noisy, but only slightly. It's the same hum/buzz as the first one had. So it looks like it may be "normal". I can still hear it from 15ft. but luckily it will end up in an enclosed entertainment cabinet. Guess I'm spoiled by the near silence of earlier models...although I skipped right over the Roamio. 

Set it up last night. Took the Motorola M Cable Card out of the Series3 and slipped it in the Bolt+. All of the channels were working again. Went online, the new box was already listed and I copied all of my 138 One Passes over. They appeared (w/o an additional network connection) within about 10 minutes. It started recording right away. Sweet.:thumbsup:

Just got off of the phone with Charter. I called the (855) 757-7328 number. It did sound as if it was the regular support number. The call went very smoothly. When the automated system asked why I was calling I just said "cable card". I was instantly connected with a CSR named Amanda who had no hesitation with helping me. Phew! She asked for the following in this order:

CC Serial Number
CC Host ID
CC Data ID

Once she had that it took a few minutes for her to enter the info and send a signal which caused all of the channels to go black; "not authorized".  A few minutes later they came back and all was right with the world! 

I told her that she did a great job and that I've called before and found folks that weren't nearly as helpful...some not even knowing what a cable card was. She said it was her third time to do it and I told her that she did awesome work! Kudos to Charter on this one.

So long story longer, I guess I'll live with the "noise" and hope that it doesn't affect the performance, now or ever!

Thanks to everyone here for the feedback and support! :thumbsup:


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## toddk63

Just did the fan swap with a NoiseBlocker XS2. Noticeably quieter, but no real drop in ODT


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## aaronwt

toddk63 said:


> Just did the fan swap with a NoiseBlocker XS2. Noticeably quieter, but no real drop in ODT


Wow!! Both of my Bolts had a very noticeable drop in the ODT after installing the XS2. 
And running them on an open, wire shelf the temps are in the low 50's with a 4TB drive installed in each one.


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## austinpike

Redoctobyr said:


> Black Net Jacket Sleeved 6 inch 1 to 2 Motherboard PWM Fan 4-pin Power Splitter Hub Adapter Cable - Newegg.com.... So the 4-pin would need to go to the hard drive, and the 3-pin would need to be used for the fan, with it connected to the red & black wires.... Hopefully once it arrives, I'll have the ability to try running the fan at 12V.


Did you end up installing this? Your follow-up post didn't mention it.

I have two Bolts though the upgrade program I've just gotten around to messing with fan/HD upgrades, would like to figure out a 12V power source to eliminate the PVM whine.


----------



## JoeKustra

austinpike said:


> Did you end up installing this? Your follow-up post didn't mention it.
> I have two Bolts though the upgrade program I've just gotten around to messing with fan/HD upgrades, would like to figure out a 12V power source to eliminate the PVM whine.


It's not elegant, but I use old 12V wall warts to power external fans on my Mini boxes. I have a few from older equipment, and you can find them on eBay cheap.


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## Redoctobyr

austinpike said:


> Did you end up installing this? Your follow-up post didn't mention it.
> 
> I have two Bolts though the upgrade program I've just gotten around to messing with fan/HD upgrades, would like to figure out a 12V power source to eliminate the PVM whine.


Sorry, I did not end up installing it. Listening to my XS2 fan during boot-up I realized that maybe it would be audible at the full 12V. And my unit doesn't make a whine noise that I notice, anyways. So I decided to leave it alone for now, anyways.

If the Bolt went together with screws, I'd be more willing to open/close it repeatedly. But with the plastic clips, I get a bit apprehensive of taking it apart more than needed, to reduce the risk of breaking the clips.

JoeKustra, how do you get the external wire in there? Do you cut a hole for the wire? Or the leave the case open a little bit?

If you were going to use an external power source, if you wanted, you could also wire in an externally-located potentiometer to let you control the fan's speed, if you wanted a way to adjust the noise level.


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## JoeKustra

Redoctobyr said:


> JoeKustra, how do you get the external wire in there? Do you cut a hole for the wire? Or the leave the case open a little bit?


I was only suggesting a source for 12V. I don't have a Bolt or fan problem on my Roamio. I do have my Roamio boxes on 1/2" feet and it dropped the internal temps 2C.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075KRHL36/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## austinpike

Redoctobyr said:


> Sorry, I did not end up installing it. Listening to my XS2 fan during boot-up I realized that maybe it would be audible at the full 12V...


I got a few cables from Microcenter to try out. Splitting power off the hard driver header - as you guessed, the XS2 fan at 12V is fairly loud.

So instead, thanks to your voltage info on the unused 4-pin header, I used jumper wires to power the fan off the 5V and connect the ground to the 0V pin. A nice clean install without having to run outside to USB. I also used rubber washers to raise the fan at the screw mount points and isolate it, as it seems to transmit noise where it contacts the case.

It's all super silent now, except the Toshiba 3TB HD is a little chatty - I don't have high hopes for that as it ages. I hope someone comes up with a good alternative.


----------



## dirtsy

I've been checking in on this thread regularly since taking advantage of the Bolt upgrade deal back in June...my sincerest thanks to those who did the heavy lifting of finding fans, pins voltages, etc!...thought I'd “quickly” share my experiences.

I'm on my third Bolt due to the humming issue with power running thru the fan pins (TiVo did replace, at no cost, each one after the issue appeared between 60-90 days on the first two). On each Bolt, including the current one, I replaced the stock drive with the 3TB Toshiba and replaced the stock fan with the Noiseblocker XS-2. With the XS-2 running, my ODT's ranged from 48-54, depending on load (i.e. streaming to iPad plus doing service connection, etc). Pretty good, considering the ranges of temps I’ve seen posted I think?

Now the humming started with the 3rd Bolt, so instead of going thru the RMA process again, using the knowledge gained from the posts in this thread, I purchased two jumpers from a local electronics wholesaler (I couldn’t believe they where still in business!), and connected the XS-2 to the 5V and 0V pins on the empty 4-pin header (my assumption is the 0V is ground). Now ODTs seems to be pretty stable between 50-52, and try as I might, I have not been able to get it to peak above 56. And the Bolt is dead silent.

For reference, my Bolt is mounted to the back of my TV with a HIDEIT Vesa mount with spacers, and positioned so the fan is in the "up" position so the heat inside the unit rises to the fan to be blown out. (See attached image). Also, I am an OTA only user...from my understanding Cable Cards like to produce heat.

Thanks again to those who regularly contribute to these forums with useful/helpful tips and tricks!

EDIT: for grammer.


----------



## plethera21

Thanks everyone for your tips and tricks. I thought I'd post in case there are other people out there that can't stand the buzzing sound coming from somewhere on the motherboard when the fan is plugged in.

I originally purchased a refurbished Bolt. The first a completely bad tuner out of the box, the replacement had a bad tuner on the 3rd channel and was replaced by a unit that has a buzzing noise. My 90-day warranty ran out but I called Tivo and purchased a replacement/swap unit for $50 and it was just as loud as my original with the same problem so I sent it back and fixed it myself.

For those people reading this forum wondering what sound I'm referring to, checkout this youtube video.

To fix the problem, you'll need to purchase two items on Amazon (~$30)

1-pin Jumper Wires (only 2 wires are needed, but this is the highest rated pack I found)
Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2

1. Open Tivo (lots of tutorials on youtube)
2. Remove old fan and Wifi antenna
3. Install Noiseblocker fan
4. Connect fan with jumpers to secondary hard drive 5V connector (see photo)
5. Test and put back together
6. Enjoy the silence!

I've attached a picture of the final result.


----------



## dirtsy

plethera21 said:


> Thanks everyone for your tips and tricks. I thought I'd post in case there are other people out there that can't stand the buzzing sound coming from somewhere on the motherboard when the fan is plugged in.
> 
> I originally purchased a refurbished Bolt. The first a completely bad tuner out of the box, the replacement had a bad tuner on the 3rd channel and was replaced by a unit that has a buzzing noise. My 90-day warranty ran out but I called Tivo and purchased a replacement/swap unit for $50 and it was just as loud as my original with the same problem so I sent it back and fixed it myself.
> 
> For those people reading this forum wondering what sound I'm referring to, checkout this youtube video.
> 
> To fix the problem, you'll need to purchase two items on Amazon (~$30)
> 
> 1-pin Jumper Wires (only 2 wires are needed, but this is the highest rated pack I found)
> Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2
> 
> 1. Open Tivo (lots of tutorials on youtube)
> 2. Remove old fan and Wifi antenna
> 3. Install Noiseblocker fan
> 4. Connect fan with jumpers to secondary hard drive 5V connector (see photo)
> 5. Test and put back together
> 6. Enjoy the silence!
> 
> I've attached a picture of the final result.


Glad it worked for you too!


----------



## mandms7

plethera21 said:


> Thanks everyone for your tips and tricks. I thought I'd post in case there are other people out there that can't stand the buzzing sound coming from somewhere on the motherboard when the fan is plugged in.
> 
> I originally purchased a refurbished Bolt. The first a completely bad tuner out of the box, the replacement had a bad tuner on the 3rd channel and was replaced by a unit that has a buzzing noise. My 90-day warranty ran out but I called Tivo and purchased a replacement/swap unit for $50 and it was just as loud as my original with the same problem so I sent it back and fixed it myself.
> 
> For those people reading this forum wondering what sound I'm referring to, checkout this youtube video.
> 
> To fix the problem, you'll need to purchase two items on Amazon (~$30)
> 
> 1-pin Jumper Wires (only 2 wires are needed, but this is the highest rated pack I found)
> Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2
> 
> 1. Open Tivo (lots of tutorials on youtube)
> 2. Remove old fan and Wifi antenna
> 3. Install Noiseblocker fan
> 4. Connect fan with jumpers to secondary hard drive 5V connector (see photo)
> 5. Test and put back together
> 6. Enjoy the silence!
> 
> I've attached a picture of the final result.


So is the XS-2 actually more quiet than the stock fan, or is it just the fact that it is undervolted that made it quieter? Also, did you notice any change/improvement in temps as a result of the fan swap-out?


----------



## Redoctobyr

The XS-2 is quieter than than my stock fan. I left mine connected the same way, so the Bolt controls the speed, and the new fan is quieter. It did seem like my temperatures actually improved with the XS-2, but it was difficult to really try and compare (changing ambient temperatures, etc).


----------



## mandms7

Redoctobyr said:


> The XS-2 is quieter than than my stock fan. I left mine connected the same way, so the Bolt controls the speed, and the new fan is quieter. It did seem like my temperatures actually improved with the XS-2, but it was difficult to really try and compare (changing ambient temperatures, etc).


Did you connect the XS-2 to the same fan header as the original fan? Aren't you still getting the buzzing sound - I thought you had to power it on the other header or the USB port to remove the buzzing?


----------



## plethera21

I'd say the XS-2 is a little quieter than the stock fan. For me, the quietness really came when I used the other header to remove the buzzing sound. As for the temperature, I'd say it is comparable to what it was before. I didn't really take a lot of measurements before, but my goal wasn't to cool the unit more, but to quiet it down.


----------



## hankuro

plethera21 said:


> Thanks everyone for your tips and tricks. I thought I'd post in case there are other people out there that can't stand the buzzing sound coming from somewhere on the motherboard when the fan is plugged in.
> 
> I originally purchased a refurbished Bolt. The first a completely bad tuner out of the box, the replacement had a bad tuner on the 3rd channel and was replaced by a unit that has a buzzing noise. My 90-day warranty ran out but I called Tivo and purchased a replacement/swap unit for $50 and it was just as loud as my original with the same problem so I sent it back and fixed it myself.
> 
> For those people reading this forum wondering what sound I'm referring to, checkout this youtube video.
> 
> To fix the problem, you'll need to purchase two items on Amazon (~$30)
> 
> 1-pin Jumper Wires (only 2 wires are needed, but this is the highest rated pack I found)
> Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2
> 
> 1. Open Tivo (lots of tutorials on youtube)
> 2. Remove old fan and Wifi antenna
> 3. Install Noiseblocker fan
> 4. Connect fan with jumpers to secondary hard drive 5V connector (see photo)
> 5. Test and put back together
> 6. Enjoy the silence!
> 
> I've attached a picture of the final result.


This is just brilliant. But, as clearly as you've described it, I still can't do it. So to whom can I send my Bolt+ along with $100 (+ shipping) to do this mod for me?


----------



## Redoctobyr

mandms7 said:


> Did you connect the XS-2 to the same fan header as the original fan? Aren't you still getting the buzzing sound - I thought you had to power it on the other header or the USB port to remove the buzzing?


Yes, I used the original fan header. My unit doesn't make much of a buzzing noise. At least not enough to bother me. So I opted to keep the speed-controlled aspect of the fan. That way, in warmer conditions, and/or when the Bolt is working hard, it still has the ability to run the fan faster.


----------



## dukejunkie

plethera21 said:


> Thanks everyone for your tips and tricks. I thought I'd post in case there are other people out there that can't stand the buzzing sound coming from somewhere on the motherboard when the fan is plugged in.
> 
> I originally purchased a refurbished Bolt. The first a completely bad tuner out of the box, the replacement had a bad tuner on the 3rd channel and was replaced by a unit that has a buzzing noise. My 90-day warranty ran out but I called Tivo and purchased a replacement/swap unit for $50 and it was just as loud as my original with the same problem so I sent it back and fixed it myself.
> 
> For those people reading this forum wondering what sound I'm referring to, checkout this youtube video.
> 
> To fix the problem, you'll need to purchase two items on Amazon (~$30)
> 
> 1-pin Jumper Wires (only 2 wires are needed, but this is the highest rated pack I found)
> Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2
> 
> 1. Open Tivo (lots of tutorials on youtube)
> 2. Remove old fan and Wifi antenna
> 3. Install Noiseblocker fan
> 4. Connect fan with jumpers to secondary hard drive 5V connector (see photo)
> 5. Test and put back together
> 6. Enjoy the silence!
> 
> I've attached a picture of the final result.


I am a new Tivo Bolt Vox owner and the sound is not enjoyable. I purchased the extended warranty as I know from past experience that these are not well engineered. Could I simply buy the 1-pin jumper wires and just attach the original fan to the other connector as you had mentioned? Would this significantly cut down on the noise without replacing the fan? I know changing the fan too is the best option but I want to be able to put the Tivo back to its original state easily for warranty purposes in case anything fails in the future. Thanks so much for any suggestions!


----------



## Luke M

dukejunkie said:


> I am a new Tivo Bolt Vox owner and the sound is not enjoyable. I purchased the extended warranty as I know from past experience that these are not well engineered. Could I simply just buy the 1-pin jumper wires and just attach the original fan to the other connector as you had mentioned? Would this significantly cut down on the noise without replacing the fan? I know changing the fan too is the best option but I want to be able to put the Tiv back to its original state easily for warranty purposes in case anything fails in the future. Thanks so much for any suggestions!


That's what I did with mine, but really, you should demand a non-defective unit.

It's funny, I thought the Bolt was garbage when I first saw it 3 years ago, but it's actually worse than I thought. (So why did I buy one? Well, my old Tivo died and I could transfer the lifetime from the dead Tivo for $100, so...)


----------



## dukejunkie

Luke M said:


> That's what I did with mine, but really, you should demand a non-defective unit.
> 
> It's funny, I thought the Bolt was garbage when I first saw it 3 years ago, but it's actually worse than I thought. (So why did I buy one? Well, my old Tivo died and I could transfer the lifetime from the dead Tivo for $100, so...)


It would take a lot less time for me to fix this with just connecting wire somewhere else than to set up and transfer everything over to a new one. Plus the new one would probably stink too. I also took the $99 upgrade. Funny thing is I did last year too and got 2 units that died in a week. I gave up and stuck with old HD but now I need a whole house system and this works great with minis other than the horrible noise.

BTW, they have great QC. One of my minis already died in less than a week and had to be exchanged. Shame. Hope this lasts a few years.


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## Redoctobyr

Sure, you could just change the way you're powering the fan, without actually replacing the fan.


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## opus123

at the risk of being too adjacent in topic to the is thread, I thought i'd point out an observation...
My replacement fans (XS2) run a bit quieter than the original, run louder when rebooting/power cycling... but absolutely SCREAM (to the point where i thing somethings wrong) if I power cycle from Standby mode.. Holy Hell. I even powered down for a day to hopefully avoid any damage, but it picked up where it left off... to the point where i was tapping the unit to mitigate. I think it's more vibration than anything else. It eventually dissipated to normal operating noise levels, but was kinda scary. I also experienced the same thing from my other unit when power cycling from standby mode, but never when doing so outside of standby or after a power outage.


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## ggieseke

opus123 said:


> at the risk of being too adjacent in topic to the is thread, I thought i'd point out an observation...
> My replacement fans (XS2) run a bit quieter than the original, run louder when rebooting/power cycling... but absolutely SCREAM (to the point where i thing somethings wrong) if I power cycle from Standby mode.. Holy Hell. I even powered down for a day to hopefully avoid any damage, but it picked up where it left off... to the point where i was tapping the unit to mitigate. I think it's more vibration than anything else. It eventually dissipated to normal operating noise levels, but was kinda scary. I also experienced the same thing from my other unit when power cycling from standby mode, but never when doing so outside of standby or after a power outage.


All computers do that until the OS kicks in and the fan management software starts running. It's usually less noticeable on consumer devices that only have 1 or 2 fans, but if you really want to scare the crap out of your cats or co-workers just fire up a Cisco, Dell or HP rack-mounted server.


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## opus123

it was damn unsettling, because it was 3X louder than normal power cycles. I thought something had come loose. I thought going into standby before pulling the plug would be a gentler transition for the unit, but was proven wrong i guess.


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## dukejunkie

Redoctobyr said:


> Sure, you could just change the way you're powering the fan, without actually replacing the fan.


Thanks! I may give it a try in a few weeks.


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## aaronwt

opus123 said:


> at the risk of being too adjacent in topic to the is thread, I thought i'd point out an observation...
> My replacement fans (XS2) run a bit quieter than the original, run louder when rebooting/power cycling... but absolutely SCREAM (to the point where i thing somethings wrong) if I power cycle from Standby mode.. Holy Hell. I even powered down for a day to hopefully avoid any damage, but it picked up where it left off... to the point where i was tapping the unit to mitigate. I think it's more vibration than anything else. It eventually dissipated to normal operating noise levels, but was kinda scary. I also experienced the same thing from my other unit when power cycling from standby mode, but never when doing so outside of standby or after a power outage.


One of my XS2 fans will do the same thing. If I tap the top of the Bolt it will fix it. Fortunately this only happens at a reboot. And the other XS2 fan in my other Bolt never exhibited the issue


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## ElJay

I was having a problem finding a spot where the Bolt fit on my furniture and was cool enough that it wasn't artifacting constantly. 

Both on a shelf above my receiver (granted, kind of hot) and in a HIDEIT mount behind the TV, I had similar results. At 65°C ODT, it really was not happy with some channels. I don't think the XS2 fan is any quieter than the stock fan was, but it definitely cools better. Temps are down into the mid 50s instead. 

Adding a 6db attenuator also helped with some remaining artifacting from a few channel signals that were apparently too strong(!) for the tuner. 

I don't know what TiVo was thinking with the thermal design of this thing. It clearly did not take into account that the TiVo will likely be around other heat sources.


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## TivoRocks193

plethera21 said:


> 4. Connect fan with jumpers to secondary hard drive 5V connector (see photo)


I tried this but the fan is dead. It works if I put it on the 12V fan connector, but I've tried the secondary SATA power and its not working. Is it possible Tivo disabled power to this port? I have a refurbished box (first one died under a year). I also notice the pic doesn't match plethera21 exactly, mine is turned to the side.

Can you confirm:
1) Which pins to use? Using the other SATA cable as a color guide, I'm using the red/5V for the white wire, and black/GND for the black wire. The same wires/fan work on the 12V, so it's not the equipment.
2) Does the fan start as soon as the unit is powered on?
3) Is there any way power to this might be disabled?


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## Scyth3

I followed plethera21's post, and just like TivoRocks193's post, it doesn't seem to work with most 12V fans (including the referenced XS-2). They all work with the standard 12V fan connection, but the humming comes back no matter the fan or brand. I tried 5 different fans, and none of them prevented the humming noise. I even stepped down the power to a 5V fan, and the problem persisted. So, I jumped the SATA power as did plethera21 did, and I found one of the five fans I bought did work at half power.

I have a new TiVO Bolt Vox 500GB, upgraded to 2TB if it matters.

Here's my parts breakdown:

1 Pin Jumpers
GDSTIME fan
I also had some heat shrink and some small black zip ties to clean things up. Here's my steps to add clarity for those interested in doing this mod:

Open the TiVo -- YT Video for those who haven't popped the TiVO case off yet.
Remove the wifi antenna which is adhered by a pad on the side of the fan (you can see it in some of my pics hanging out on the side). Do it when the TiVO has been running for awhile and it's hot. If you have a spudger, just slide it against the fan and the pad and it'll slowly come off. If not, use double sided tape or similar to put it back on when you're putting everything back together later.
Unscrew the two screws holding on the fan. I used a T9 bit (same as all the other screws on the box for the most part).
Remove the mount that's clipped to the bottom of the old fan, you'll reuse it.
Take the new GDSTIME fan, and I used a 5/32" drill bit to round the holes out a bit on the new fan. It was too snug to easily remove from the mount otherwise, and you never know if you'll want to replace it down the line.
Clip the new fan (air blowing downward) to the mount we took off the stock fan. NOTE: The new fan has a perfect flat edge, which is a perfect spot to mount the wifi antenna to. It's only flat like that on one side...so double check it before you screw it all together.
Screw the fan mount + fan back onto the chassis. 
Remount the wifi antenna to the flat side of the fan.
Route the fan wiring around the top to the side, like in my picture. The place where the screw goes in has a nice wedge, that you can push it into to hold it tight.
Run the pin jumpers from the SATA connector (close up view). Then connect the jumpers to the fan connector, as also seen in the pics. Red to red, black to black.
Now, optionally heat shrink, zip tie, etc to make it super pretty. I don't like cables moving around with ease, so at least zip tie the jumpers to the regular HD cabling
Make sure it works, then close it all back up the same way you took it apart 
My TiVO under heavy load is around 54*F and is nice and quiet. No more weird electrical humming or loud fan noises. Here's a video of it running before I buttoned it up:


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## hankuro

ElJay said:


> I was having a problem finding a spot where the Bolt fit on my furniture and was cool enough that it wasn't artifacting constantly.
> 
> Both on a shelf above my receiver (granted, kind of hot) and in a HIDEIT mount behind the TV, I had similar results. At 65°C ODT, it really was not happy with some channels. I don't think the XS2 fan is any quieter than the stock fan was, but it definitely cools better. Temps are down into the mid 50s instead.
> 
> Adding a 6db attenuator also helped with some remaining artifacting from a few channel signals that were apparently too strong(!) for the tuner.
> 
> I don't know what TiVo was thinking with the thermal design of this thing. It clearly did not take into account that the TiVo will likely be around other heat sources.


I'm assuming that what I call 'pixelation' and what you call 'artifacting' is the same thing. In any case I have it intermittently and on some channels more than others.

Has it been confirmed by other forum members (or Tivo) that both excessive ODT temperature and excessive signal strength are the primary contributors to this? It is very annoying and was never present in any TIVO unit prior to Bolt.


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