# Breaking Bad 9/1/13 "Rabid Dog"



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Here's the thread.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Skylar: "What's one more?" 

I heard an interview with Anna Gunn where she said that Skylar has become like Lady MacBeth...Out, out, damn spot, indeed! 

The hour went by so fast...now half of this "season" is over! 

p.s. Is Walter White the last person on Earth (besides my mom) to own a flip-phone?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Part of me laments "if ONLY that bald guy wasn't there waiting for his kid! A misunderstanding!! Walt could have tried justifying it not being a deadly poison, and we could have seen that exchange!" but then I remembered Jessie was wearing a wire.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Walt is so bad at the small lies. What a huge tell - the entire gas pump story it was almost cringe-worthy it was so bad.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Walt is so bad at the small lies. What a huge tell - the entire gas pump story it was almost cringe-worthy it was so bad.


And the kid just handed him an out, and he was too proud to take it.

It's also interesting that while he can be the scariest badass on the face of the Earth ("I'm the one who knocks"), apparently he can't do it while searching for somebody in his house with a gun in his hand.

Brilliant physical performance by Cranston!


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

On twitter they're calling them "Skisenberg"


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So what did Jesse tell Hank?

_Everything_? Including killing Gayle?


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

YES! Love the Jesse and Hank dynamic duo and Gomie is now in on it!

I'm pretty sure Jesse told them everything, even Gayle.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Zevida said:


> I'm pretty sure Jesse told them everything, even Gayle.


That seemed to go by awfully quick. But I don't think Jesse would admit to murder.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> So what did Jesse tell Hank?
> 
> _Everything_? Including killing Gayle?


Wondered that too. When Hank referred to the junkie in the other room, I don't think he said "the murderer in the other room".

Maybe gave just enough to screw over Walt.

But still, like Jesse said, it's all Jesse-said vs Walt-said stuff.

Did Hank tell Jesse about Walt's "confession video" threat? I doubt it.

If they can't get Walt, does Jesse still go down for all the stuff he admitted to? He had to admit cooking with him, carrying a ricin cigarette with the intent to kill Gus, etc.

Is Hank free from the video threat just with the new Jesse videotape alone?


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Regina said:


> Skylar: "What's one more?"


I was a bit surprised at this. I was also glad to see that Walt really didn't want to kill Jessie, until he was backed into a corner.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I guess Hank's play now is to claim that he couldn't go to the DEA because of Walt's close connections there, but since he let Gomez in on it they can't say he was hiding anything?

He'd have to fudge the timeline (and Gomie would have to go along with it), but I guess that could work, especially in TV-land...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Jstkiddn said:


> I was a bit surprised at this. I was also glad to see that Walt really didn't want to kill Jessie, until he was backed into a corner.


Ditto. Saul suggested it again, and Walt smacked him down. Skyler even suggested it, and I was still waiting for Walt to say he was family. Still holding out hope beyond hope that circumstances let Walt say that at some point.

Felt like saying "See? Told ya so!!" in the thread mid-episode.

Sad to see him make the call he made at the end. Maybe it's somehow not what we expect.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

They listened to Badger & Skinny Pete for an hour, talking about Babylon 5. 

Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Whoa.. We don't know if Hank told Gomez about Walt's "confession" video..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

gchance said:


> They listened to Badger & Skinny Pete for an hour, talking about Babylon 5.
> 
> Greg


LOL


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> I was a bit surprised at this.


I was a bit surprised by it, too. It didn't ring quite true for me.

I also felt cheated out of seeing Hank bring Gomie up to speed. That could have been a good scene for both actors.

I'm not sure how I felt about this episode, actually. Though the first scene, with Walt searching his home for Jesse, was excellent. For a moment there I thought he'd find Jesse dead, self-inflicted.

Also: was there some special significance to the CD in Saul's car? I didn't quite follow that.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Wondered that too. When Hank referred to the junkie in the other room, I don't think he said "the murderer in the other room".


Actually, he did. He said the "junkie murderer" dribbling on my guest bathroom.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

danterner said:


> Also: was there some special significance to the CD in Saul's car? I didn't quite follow that.


I briefly wondered if it was a copy of Walt's "if I die" confession DVD. Whatever it was, Jessie was using it to snort drugs.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Jstkiddn said:


> I was a bit surprised at this. I was also glad to see that Walt really didn't want to kill Jessie, until he was backed into a corner.


I was too but he ended the episode with fatal plans for my boy so I still think WW is the devil and want him to die.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> I briefly wondered if it was a copy of Walt's "if I die" confession DVD. Whatever it was, Jessie was using it to snort drugs.


Ah, I didn't pick up on that but it makes more sense now.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Beryl said:


> I was too but he ended the episode with fatal plans for my boy so I still think WW is the devil and want him to die.


Beryl, tell us how you really feel.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> I briefly wondered if it was a copy of Walt's "if I die" confession DVD. Whatever it was, Jessie was using it to snort drugs.


I thought it was just being used to reset the scene. Walt pointedly picked up it up out of Saul's car and we were meant to notice the CD. Then when Jesse pulled up to the house we were also meant to notice the CD. I thought it was just a visual reset signal so we'd know we were back in time.

I never even thought about it being the confession video.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida said:


> I never even thought about it being the confession video.


Why would it be?

I'm serious...what would Jesse be doing with it, and how would he have even gotten it?

I think it's just the music he was listening to when he pulled up.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Why would it be?
> 
> I'm serious...what would Jesse be doing with it, and how would he have even gotten it?
> 
> I think it's just the music he was listening to when he pulled up.


It was Saul's car. The one Jesse took at gunpoint.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

gchance said:


> They listened to Badger & Skinny Pete for an hour, talking about Babylon 5.
> 
> Greg


Just wait until they see the cartoon of Badger telling his Star Trek story!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I just started watching Talking Bad, and immediately noticed



Spoiler



a pile of pancakes on the coffee table.




Greg


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> I was a bit surprised at this. I was also glad to see that Walt really didn't want to kill Jessie, until he was backed into a corner.


I was not. In her eyes, Jesse is now going after the kids and her.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Zevida said:


> Actually, he did. He said the "junkie murderer" dribbling on my guest bathroom.


:up:
Yup pretty sure Jesse told them everything.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

THIS is your plan? Doing HIS PLAN??


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And then Hank, almost gleeful at the thought of Walt whacking Jesse (on camera)!

Quite a show when the character the most people have reason to root for is the junkie murderer...


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

gchance said:


> They listened to Badger & Skinny Pete for an hour, talking about Babylon 5.
> 
> Greg


You mean Beaver


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Quite a show when the character the most people have reason to root for is the junkie murderer...


Do "most people" root for Jesse? I certainly do not. I know there are some vocal people who really like Jesse despite all his moral failings and screwups that Walt had to save him from.

Maybe we need a survey to see if "most people" are rooting for Jesse? I'm rooting for bad things to happen to Jesse (and Walt, and Hank).


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Part of me laments "if ONLY that bald guy wasn't there waiting for his kid! A misunderstanding!! Walt could have tried justifying it not being a deadly poison, and we could have seen that exchange!" but then I remembered Jessie was wearing a wire.


Same thought here.

I would have liked to see Jesse get away from Hank, as he walked away from Walt.



danterner said:


> I was a bit surprised by it, too. It didn't ring quite true for me.
> 
> I also felt cheated out of seeing Hank bring Gomie up to speed. That could have been a good scene for both actors.
> 
> ...


I thought we were going to hear a gun shot and then another one and then go to a commercial break.

I did like how they switched from Walt to Jesse's point of view and storyline to explain why the house wasn't in flames.

Good episode but it did go by so quick.

Man, Jesse looks a wreck.

And I have to say the whole "old Yeller" bit had me chuckling.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Marie's therapist, Dave, looked like he was piecing together who Marie was talking about. He had some recognition when she mentioned the blackjack winnings.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

GoPackGo said:


> Marie's therapist, Dave, looked like he was piecing together who Marie was talking about. He had some recognition when she mentioned the blackjack winnings.


Is this the first we have seen him or knew that she was seeing a therapist?


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

The slow zoom out reveal of the Hello Kitty phone playing Walt's message, along with the whole surveillance scene at the end, reminded me of The Conversation.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

betts4 said:


> Is this the first we have seen him or knew that she was seeing a therapist?


First time we have seen Dave. Not the first time we have heard of her therapist. Dave has been mentioned several times in the past.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

everyone wants Jesse dead!!!




Skyler
Hank
Walt


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

I get the feeling that Skyler will be the one to kill Jesse.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

It seems the last innocent person we have left is Walter Junior. I wonder if we see him corrupted over the last 4 episodes. Corrupted...or innocent bystander that gets caught in the crossfire. Either way it cannot end well for young Flynn. At least he got to enjoy the muscle car.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

For the plaza scene I expected Walt to have the Radio Shack device that Saul showed him in the desert when Walt was checking for bugs/GPS units on his car. Walt would've known that Jesse was bugged.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

john4200 said:


> Do "most people" root for Jesse? I certainly do not. I know there are some vocal people who really like Jesse despite all his moral failings and screwups that Walt had to save him from.
> 
> Maybe we need a survey to see if "most people" are rooting for Jesse? I'm rooting for bad things to happen to Jesse (and Walt, and Hank).


I'm rooting for Jesse because he appears to be the only character to have repented of his sins. I didn't like him in the first couple of seasons but when he didn't want to take the money after the kid was killed in the desert, I officially became a fan.

I used to be a Skylar supporter but she can meet her end also.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Beryl said:


> I'm rooting for Jesse because he appears to be the only character to have repented of his sins.


In his typical, worthless manner, I suppose you could say he has. But it is more like he is feeling sorry for himself than that he has seriously repented. Jesse certainly has not taken responsibility for what he has done, or made a prolonged effort at restitution. And he continues to make bad choices. Instead of throwing the money out on the street, he could have donated it to charities of his choice, or even started his own charity and worked hard at it (for street children involved in drugs, maybe?). Jesse is still taking drugs. He would have burned Walt's house down if Hank did not stop him -- which would have been a pretty despicable thing to do, considering that it also affects Skylar and the children (not just Walt).

Jesse could have turned himself in and gone to jail for all the laws he has broken. But he has not done that. He does not seriously think he is responsible for most of the terrible things he has done. Somehow Jesse blames Walt for everything, instead of taking responsibility for the many things that Jesse himself has done.


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

No weed! Go insane. Bald guy at two o'clock! Go insane.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I would have liked to see Jesse get away from Hank, as he walked away from Walt.


Agreed!! And if he tried, he probably could have got away - they can't really call for backup!



betts4 said:


> I thought we were going to hear a gun shot and then another one and then go to a commercial break.


You mean at the beginning in the bedroom? Me too!! Then I thought maybe just one shot. We got none.



betts4 said:


> I did like how they switched from Walt to Jesse's point of view and storyline to explain why the house wasn't in flames.


Once again, agreed. That would have felt very unsatisfying not having seen it.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

GoPackGo said:


> Marie's therapist, Dave, looked like he was piecing together who Marie was talking about. He had some recognition when she mentioned the blackjack winnings.


Can we just talk about something else?

Ok, last week you were upset about the new parking rules..

LOL


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> everyone wants Jesse dead!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not me. I'm simultaneously rooting for Walt and Jesse foremost, then on the rest of the spectrum going from rooting for to rooting against, it's Skyler, then Walt Jr, Saul and Huell in there somewhere, and at the bottom is Hank and Marie, Todd, Uncle Jack & Crew. Badger and Skinny Pete go somewhere above Hank and Marie. Gomez is around Hank's level.

(That's what I let my conscious mind think. I'm trying not to plan out the ending too much because I want to be surprised by it and go along for the ride.. I'll accept any and every person dying if it makes for an insanely awesome episode that makes the whole series and has me loving it (even if sad)).

But who am I consciously rooting for? Walt and Jesse together.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I just saw your message again and realized you didn't mean that everyone HERE wants Jesse dead and Skyler too etc, but that you meant everyone on the SHOW wants him dead. 

Doh.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

By the way, at least in this episode, it seemed that everyone else (except Walt Jr) was breaking bad more than Walt.. Skyler and Saul advocate murdering Jesse. Hank sends Jesse in knowing ahead of time he could die and he's fine with that (and Gomez goes along with it).

Jesse rats Walt out, which isn't necessarily becoming more bad on the spectrum, but it's a betrayal. Marie blabs a bit too.

The nicest this episode were Walt, Walt Jr., and the cleaning guy who didn't take any more of Walt's money.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Part of me laments "if ONLY that bald guy wasn't there waiting for his kid! A misunderstanding!! Walt could have tried justifying it not being a deadly poison, and we could have seen that exchange!" but then I remembered Jessie was wearing a wire.


Is that the luck running out or was it lucky that the bald guy was there? Jesse said he is really lucky.



jkeegan said:


> Walt is so bad at the small lies. What a huge tell - the entire gas pump story it was almost cringe-worthy it was so bad.


Just can't lie to his wife.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Do "most people" root for Jesse? I certainly do not. I know there are some vocal people who really like Jesse despite all his moral failings and screwups that Walt had to save him from.
> 
> Maybe we need a survey to see if "most people" are rooting for Jesse? I'm rooting for bad things to happen to Jesse (and Walt, and Hank).


Well, that wasn't exactly what I meant...not that most people root for Jesse, but that of the people who have expressed reason to root for anybody, most have done it for Jesse. But yes, you're right, they're all bad people to varying degrees, and they're all getting worse, and I hope they all get what they deserve. Which is a kind of rooting, I suppose. 

I guess I could root for Walt Jr. if he were actually doing anything worth rooting for, but really he's just a passive innocent. Otherwise, it's just shades of despicability. Which the show makes fascinating, which is its genius.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> You mean at the beginning in the bedroom? Me too!! Then I thought maybe just one shot. We got none.


Yes, at the beginning, when Walt opens the door and then we see the long hallway shot. I really was expecting a shot or two. Walt shooting Jesse and missing, Jesse shooting at Walt and missing...who knows.

We seem to have the same mindset for a lot of how this show goes. :up:



jkeegan said:


> The nicest this episode were Walt, Walt Jr., and the cleaning guy who didn't take any more of Walt's money.


This made me laugh.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him. He has shown over the course of the show that he didn't want pretty much any of this yet he keeps allowing himself to be dragged back in. Jesse's main fault is he's weak minded. And part of that his his drug addiction. Walt has been like a father to him and we saw last week that it's something Jesse feels because he even said the words "just tell me you don&#8217;t give a **** about me" because he desperately wanted to hear the opposite. Ugh. Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that. Walt, on the other hand, is a bad person. 

Just my $.02


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him. He has shown over the course of the show that he didn't want pretty much any of this yet he keeps allowing himself to be dragged back in. Jesse's main fault is he's weak minded. And part of that his his drug addiction. Walt has been like a father to him and we saw last week that it's something Jesse feels because he even said the words "just tell me you dont give a **** about me" because he desperately wanted to hear the opposite. Ugh. Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that. Walt, on the other hand, is a bad person.
> 
> Just my $.02


I like that $.02.

And something I realized this week as Walt Jr, also was telling Dad to stop with the lies, is that Walt has betrayed both of his sons. Both Walt Jr and Jesse who I really felt he saw like a son to him (at times).


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

betts4 said:


> I like that $.02.
> 
> And something I realized this week as Walt Jr, also was telling Dad to stop with the lies, is that Walt has betrayed both of his sons. Both Walt Jr and Jesse who I really felt he saw like a son to him (at times).


Definitely. Again, I honestly think Walt cares about Jesse. He loves his son and wife too. But he will manipulate anyone and everyone if it serves him well to do so.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him. He has shown over the course of the show that he didn't want pretty much any of this yet he keeps allowing himself to be dragged back in. Jesse's main fault is he's weak minded. And part of that his his drug addiction. Walt has been like a father to him and we saw last week that it's something Jesse feels because he even said the words "just tell me you dont give a **** about me" because he desperately wanted to hear the opposite. Ugh. Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that. Walt, on the other hand, is a bad person.
> 
> Just my $.02


I'll buy that for $1.00


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

In a way I think that Walt cares about his family so much that he's willing to do just about anything to "protect" them. Now, his idea of protection and my idea of protection are two vastly different things, but in his mind he justifies everything he's done in order to keep the family together.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Jesse walking away from the plaza situation - cue the vehicle sliding around the corner and screeching to a halt next to him. And that vehicle was a minivan? Since when are they capable of that??? lol


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Lots of people say Walt "is" a bad person. I just want to point out something obvious here:

1) He is NOW. We've been watching his decent, from regular old innocent chemistry teacher to this.
2) Adding to all of the Star Wars references, there is still some good in him.
3) I think the point of the show is that this descent could happen to ANYBODY.

Some of the very qualities that made early Walt seem so "good" (caring about his family) are the very things that motivate his path towards current Walt.

And lastly, the reason we still see the good and can still (at some level) want to see him succeed/survive/be-happy is because we've watched the entire descent and we know the original Walt. We saw all of the decisions along the way. And with respect to his family, all of his intentions have been good. (Even letting Jesse'a girlfriend choke to death on her own vomit - she was blackmailing Walt and by extension his family).


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Im glad Hank finally brought Gomie into this. He shoulda done it right away.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Lots of people say Walt "is" a bad person. I just want to point out something obvious here:
> 
> 1) He is NOW. We've been watching his decent, from regular old innocent chemistry teacher to this.
> 2) Adding to all of the Star Wars references, there is still some good in him.
> 3) I think the point of the show is that this descent could happen to ANYBODY.


I somewhat disagree. They've had pretty strong hints all along that Walt has always had Heisenberg lurking within him, but never had the guts and/or the impetus to let him out. (Remember that he could have been Steve Wozniak, but his own selfishness led him to think he didn't need his partners, and he was the one who got left behind.) He had a fragile little life going, and when that began to fall apart, he began to let his demons out. But they were always there.

And letting/making terrible things happen in order to serve your own interests doesn't make you a "good" family man; it makes you a brutal sociopath.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I somewhat disagree. They've had pretty strong hints all along that Walt has always had Heisenberg lurking within him, but never had the guts and/or the impetus to let him out. (Remember that he could have been Steve Wozniak, but his own selfishness led him to think he didn't need his partners, and he was the one who got left behind.) He had a fragile little life going, and when that began to fall apart, he began to let his demons out. But they were always there.
> 
> And letting/making terrible things happen in order to serve your own interests doesn't make you a "good" family man; it makes you a brutal sociopath.


:up: Everything you said.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Was it realistic that Jesse could stand in the living room with a lit lighter and all those gasoline fumes without them igniting?

So if Jesse told Hank about the Drew Sharp killing, that means he told about the train heist. That seems like it would be fairly easy to verify. 

Man, this hour went by fast.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> So if Jesse told Hank about the Drew Sharp killing, that means he told about the train heist. That seems like it would be fairly easy to verify.


Yes, but could it be traced to Walt?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> Yes, but could it be traced to Walt?


If Jesse told them about it, then they investigated and it turned out to be true, that would make at least one part of his story verifiable. That was Gomie's problem, and it seems that's a good place to start.

And I'm sure that as soon as they start sniffing around Lydia, she'll roll over on Walt in no time if they offer her immunity.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> In a way I think that Walt cares about his family so much that he's willing to do just about anything to "protect" them. Now, his idea of protection and my idea of protection are two vastly different things, but in his mind he justifies everything he's done in order to keep the family together.


I agree...


jkeegan said:


> Lots of people say Walt "is" a bad person. I just want to point out something obvious here:
> 
> 1) He is NOW. We've been watching his decent, from regular old innocent chemistry teacher to this.
> 2) Adding to all of the Star Wars references, there is still some good in him.
> ...


yes, but...


Rob Helmerichs said:


> I somewhat disagree. They've had pretty strong hints all along that Walt has always had Heisenberg lurking within him, but never had the guts and/or the impetus to let him out. (Remember that he could have been Steve Wozniak, but his own selfishness led him to think he didn't need his partners, and he was the one who got left behind.) He had a fragile little life going, and when that began to fall apart, he began to let his demons out. But they were always there.
> 
> And letting/making terrible things happen in order to serve your own interests doesn't make you a "good" family man; it makes you a brutal sociopath.


Ding, ding, ding, ding...we have a winner! Nobody is all good or all bad. We all have a gatekeeper in our head that keeps us from saying or doing the wrong thing. The only difference is what your definition of "wrong" is and his vigilant that gatekeeper is.

We all have our weaknesses...something that takes over that gatekeeper to keep it from doing its job. It could be drugs, like Jesse. With Walt it's hubris. He has been a downtrodden and beaten little man, bested by others he thought intellectually inferior. He finally has his breakthrough, doing something he is truly the best at doing, and it happens to be illegal and controlled by thugs who are intellectually inferior to Walt. At every opportunity to beat his chest and show his superiority, he's done it to his own detriment. He cannot help it.

But now he's had a taste of power and respect and he likes it. And he cannot go back to meek and mild even if it serves his own best interest. A friend of mine likes to say that sociopaths get things done because they don't have the same worries you and I have about people and feelings. Walt's lies and manipulations can be seen as Heisenberg being the dominant personality, but I think they are also proof that Heisenberg hasn't completely taken over because he still cares about people and feelings enough to lie.

I know that seems like a BS distinction, but if the money was all he cared about, he could have disappeared by Saul's guy a while ago.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Was it realistic that Jesse could stand in the living room with a lit lighter and all those gasoline fumes without them igniting?
> 
> So if Jesse told Hank about the Drew Sharp killing, that means he told about the train heist. That seems like it would be fairly easy to verify.
> 
> Man, this hour went by fast.


When Walt was inside with his gun, I said "if he fires that he could explode the whole house!"

If Jesse told Hank about Todd and Uncle Jack+crew (and Lydia?) then he has a lot more big enemies right now.

Still hoping that Walt uses that big gun to somehow save Jessie from Uncle Jack's crew.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Regina said:


> p.s. Is Walter White the last person on Earth (besides my mom) to own a flip-phone?


Pretty common TV Show Bad Guy burner phones, Saul had a number of them in his drawer of emergency phones.
Old tech, no GPS chip, cheap enough to throw away without hesitation.

Although Walt seems to have had this phone longer than most, long enough for Jesse to have the number memorized.

Hello Kitty phone though, it has GPS capability so is a lot more traceable than the old flip phone Walt has.
Surprised this didn't come into play when Saul had his guys trying to find Jesse.

phox


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him. He has shown over the course of the show that he didn't want pretty much any of this yet he keeps allowing himself to be dragged back in. Jesse's main fault is he's weak minded. And part of that his his drug addiction. Walt has been like a father to him and we saw last week that it's something Jesse feels because he even said the words "just tell me you don't give a **** about me" because he desperately wanted to hear the opposite. Ugh. Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that. Walt, on the other hand, is a bad person.
> 
> Just my $.02


Piling on to the "like". You expressed it better than I did.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Regina said:


> p.s. Is Walter White the last person on Earth (besides my mom) to own a flip-phone?


They've done this on purpose to make the show not be tied to a specific timeframe.* The first season was filmed in 2007, when flip phones were still very common. From the pilot to the most recent episode has been about 18 months, so a flip phone would still be very common in 2009.

*Of course they kind of screwed this up by having Walt and Skyler buy new model cars, but that's kind of the point. This show isn't supposed to be set in any specific time period. It just happens.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Walt decided to start cooking meth in the pilot. He also killed a guy in the pilot. It didn't take much to cause him to break bad.


----------



## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

Heisenberg should have snapped Jessie's neck when he had the chance. No half measures, Walter.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Regina said:


> p.s. Is Walter White the last person on Earth (besides my mom) to own a flip-phone?


OMG, I feel old as one of my two cell phones is a flip-phone.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

gchance said:


> I just started watching Talking Bad, and immediately noticed
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



The host said they were eating cereal.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Zevida said:


> I thought it was just being used to reset the scene. Walt pointedly picked up it up out of Saul's car and we were meant to notice the CD. Then when Jesse pulled up to the house we were also meant to notice the CD. I thought it was just a visual reset signal so we'd know we were back in time...


We were supposed to notice _the coke powder_ on the CD.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

betts4 said:


> ...I did like how they switched from Walt to Jesse's point of view and storyline to explain why the house wasn't in flames.
> ...


I didn't see that coming, but thinking about it, otherwise how would Jesse have gotten out of there leaving Saul's caddy behind? Just stroll out on foot through Walt's burbie neighborhood?

"Jesse, put the lighter down! You don't want to do it. I don't want to shoot you."


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

danterner said:


> I also felt cheated out of seeing Hank bring Gomie up to speed. That could have been a good scene for both actors.


I initially felt that way too, but I also liked the shock at seeing him there when Jesse walked into the room. So I decided that I liked the way things played out.



photoshopgrl said:


> I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him.


The only reason Jesse murdered Gale was because Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt. And the reason Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt was because Walt killed two men that Jesse was planning on killing.

So I disagree that Walt manipulated Jesse into becoming a murderer. In fact, Walt sacrificed everything to prevent him from becoming one.

Walt could have just let Jesse kill those men, and suffer the consequences at the hands of Gus while he and Gale made their product in the safety of their lab. Instead, he killed the two men Jesse was after, hoping that Gus would be less willing to go after him than Jesse. He put his own life in danger for Jesse. That's about as opposite from manipulation as you can get.



jkeegan said:


> Still hoping that Walt uses that big gun to somehow save Jessie from Uncle Jack's crew.


That's an interesting thought. What if Walt is calling Todd's uncle not because he wants Jesse dead, but because he wants to set up a scenario where he can "save" Jesse? Perhaps his attempt at saving Jesse backfires, and ends up turning Todd and Co. against him.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Was it realistic that Jesse could stand in the living room with a lit lighter and all those gasoline fumes without them igniting?





jkeegan said:


> When Walt was inside with his gun, I said "if he fires that he could explode the whole house!"


We know by the law of The Mythbusters that the fuel/air mixture ratio has to hit a magic range to be explosive. If he had dropped a flame on the carpet the gas would burn through the wicking effect like in a kerosene lantern.



jkeegan said:


> If Jesse told Hank about Todd and Uncle Jack+crew (and Lydia?) then he has a lot more big enemies right now.
> 
> Still hoping that Walt uses that big gun to somehow save Jessie from Uncle Jack's crew.


The key question we should have at this point is what Jesse has in mind that could get "Mr. White" *worse* than the conversation on the wire. He has to have some physical evidence or set up mind.

I can't think of many at this point. There are no bodies buried with evidence that he knows of.



DevdogAZ said:


> So if Jesse told Hank about the Drew Sharp killing, that means he told about the train heist. That seems like it would be fairly easy to verify


Maybe if they find the pit next the train tracks opposite where Drew Sharp was killed...oh, wait, nobody knows where, or that he was killed. He's just missing.

Maybe set up Walter to get got by Lydia and the Uncle Jack crew and the Czechs.

How about one of the Guatemalans that worked at the laundry and saw Walter?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I think Walt's final phone call was to set up a hit on Lydia, not Jesse like they want us to think...specifically because she would turn on him on a dime.. also because when Jesse said "I'll get you at home" at the end, I think he tipped Walt off that he was talking to Hank ("at home") and the DEA, and their next move is Lydia for some real evidence or a sting. But since there doesn't seem to be any real evidence and he's "retired" I'm not sure how much damming evidence she can provide.

I still do wonder what Jesse's "there's a better way" means, if that's just going after his wife/kids, or something else. I hope it's not the former, that's just to easy and not a very "Breaking Bad" way. It has to be something we don't/can't anticipate like the "confession" video. Finally Jesse is playing Walt's game, and Walt will not expect it (I hope).


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Hank said:


> I think Walt's final phone call was to set up a hit on Lydia, not Jesse like they want us to think...specifically because she would turn on him on a dime.. also because when Jesse said "I'll get you at home" at the end, I think he tipped Walt off that he was talking to Hank ("at home") and the DEA, and their next move is Lydia for some real evidence or a sting. But since there doesn't seem to be any real evidence and he's "retired" I'm not sure how much damming evidence she can provide.
> 
> I still do wonder what Jesse's "there's a better way" means, if that's just going after his wife/kids, or something else. I hope it's not the former, that's just to easy and not a very "Breaking Bad" way. It has to be something we don't/can't anticipate like the "confession" video. Finally Jesse is playing Walt's game, and Walt will not expect it (I hope).


You made me remember that the other DEA office paid Lydia and Madrigal a visit when they put the GPS trackers on the barrels. They have some experience with Lydia.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

BitbyBlit said:


> The only reason Jesse murdered Gale was because Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt. And the reason Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt was because Walt killed two men that Jesse was planning on killing.
> 
> So I disagree that Walt manipulated Jesse into becoming a murderer. In fact, Walt sacrificed everything to prevent him from becoming one.
> 
> Walt could have just let Jesse kill those men, and suffer the consequences at the hands of Gus while he and Gale made their product in the safety of their lab. Instead, he killed the two men Jesse was after, hoping that Gus would be less willing to go after him than Jesse. He put his own life in danger for Jesse. That's about as opposite from manipulation as you can get.


Right. I was going to respond similarly, but you already explained it well.

Also, someone said that Walt betrayed Jesse, but actually, the two of them had planned on killing Gus. But then Jesse became friends with Mike and then Gus (two people who were planning to kill Jesse and Walt just a few months ago, and were still planning on killing Walt even as Jesse buddied up to them). That was Jesse betraying Walt, big time. Even after Walt had saved Jesse's life from Gus earlier.

So, there have been several betrayals, on both sides, but I think that Walt comes out slightly the better person in the betrayer game (or perhaps I should say, not quite as bad as Jesse in betrayals), since Walt saved Jesse and was betrayed first by Jesse before he began manipulating and betraying Jesse. And now, at the end, Walt has still tried to protect Jesse (from people who want Jesse dead), while Jesse has been busy betraying Walt to Hank.


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

At the beginning of the episode, when Jesse had seemingly vanished from the White home, I was half expecting Walt to discover a frayed lamp cord plugged into a Christmas light timer, the same way that Walt and Jesse had set the super lab to explode back in Season 4.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Hank said:


> I still do wonder what Jesse's "there's a better way" means, if that's just going after his wife/kids, or something else.


I thought that at first but it's too obvious and straight forward. No, he's going after the one thing Walt REALLY cares about. His legacy.

Walt has been shown to have too much ego for his own good. The scene with the notebook of instructions, for instance, where Walt had to go on and on about how it was clearly derivative. He doesn't just want to make the best meth, he wanted people to know how much better he was than they were.

The easiest first step is to out him as Heisenberg. Let it be known that the great, powerful, scary Heisenberg, is a high school teacher. Destroy his image.

The second would be to make a better product.

I don't know that Jesse could do the latter, and even if he could, I doubt Hank would let him, but the former? To destroy the image Walt has built up? That would definitely be taking Walt down where he "really lives". And would lead to the house we saw in the half-season opening, with Heisenberg spray painted on the wall.

Reveal the man behind the curtain and you destroy his power.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> I initially felt that way too, but I also liked the shock at seeing him there when Jesse walked into the room. So I decided that I liked the way things played out.
> 
> The only reason Jesse murdered Gale was because Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt. And the reason Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt was because Walt killed two men that Jesse was planning on killing.
> 
> ...


Also, don't forget that the reason they killed Gale was to protect themselves. If Gale could make Blue Sky as well as Walt, then Gus didn't need Walt or Jesse. So Jesse was killing Gale as much for his own protection as it was because of anything Walt made him do.



Hank said:


> I think Walt's final phone call was to set up a hit on Lydia, not Jesse like they want us to think...specifically because she would turn on him on a dime.. also because when Jesse said "I'll get you at home" at the end, I think he tipped Walt off that he was talking to Hank ("at home") and the DEA, and their next move is Lydia for some real evidence or a sting. But since there doesn't seem to be any real evidence and he's "retired" I'm not sure how much damming evidence she can provide.
> 
> I still do wonder what Jesse's "there's a better way" means, if that's just going after his wife/kids, or something else. I hope it's not the former, that's just to easy and not a very "Breaking Bad" way. It has to be something we don't/can't anticipate like the "confession" video. Finally Jesse is playing Walt's game, and Walt will not expect it (I hope).


Disagree. Jesse told Walt he was going after his family. That crossed a line with Walt. Up until then, Walt wanted Jesse to get away cleanly. But if Jesse is going to threaten Walt's family, Walt will not hesitate to take Jesse down.

Also, Todd and Uncle Jack are working directly with Lydia. As far as Walt knows, they're loyal to each other. So if he wants to take out Lydia, I don't think Todd and Uncle Jack would be the ones he would call.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Disagree. Jesse told Walt he was going after his family. That crossed a line with Walt. Up until then, Walt wanted Jesse to get away cleanly. But if Jesse is going to threaten Walt's family, Walt will not hesitate to take Jesse down.


No, Jesse said he was going to get Walt "at home".. whatever that meant. Could be his family, but that's too easy for the writers. It has to mean something else. Also, I think if Jesse was going after Walt's family, than Walt has the hubris to face Jesse himself, and not chicken out by calling in Todd's uncle.



DevdogAZ said:


> Also, Todd and Uncle Jack are working directly with Lydia. As far as Walt knows, they're loyal to each other. So if he wants to take out Lydia, I don't think Todd and Uncle Jack would be the ones he would call.


Well, part that is true.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

netringer said:


> * SPOILER *





Spoiler



In addition to the pancakes, there was also cereal on the table. Fruit Loops, IIRC.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I was surprised they didn't do anything with Jesse hearing Hank talk about how much Walt had been protecting him, treating him as family and a partner. That seemed to be a moment where Hank was giving Jesse numerous reasons to shut up and deny everything Hank believes about Walt.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

BitbyBlit said:


> The only reason Jesse murdered Gale was because Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt. And the reason Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt was because Walt killed two men that Jesse was planning on killing.


Wasn't Jesse planning on killing the men associated with an innocent kid being killed in the hood? I don't remember exactly how that went down but as I recall, it was tied to an innocent being killed -- not a "Walter-type" murder (a murder to protect himself).


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Beryl said:


> Wasn't Jesse planning on killing the men associated with an innocent kid being killed in the hood? I don't remember exactly how that went down but as I recall, it was tied to an innocent being killed -- not a "Walter-type" murder (a murder to protect himself).


The dealers got the kid to kill for them. Then they killed the kid. It was that one girls little brother.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

This post about the episode points out some pretty cool imagery on the third page of course...

http://www.slashfilm.com/10-things-we-learned-from-breaking-bad-s5e12-rabid-dog/3/

The WYRUP image floating around from last episode made sense this episode...









So do these images mean anything?

DEA...D?









Behind bars...


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Test said:


> This post about the episode points out some pretty cool imagery
> 
> So do these images mean anything?


No.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

So did anyone else notice that when Jesse is looking at Hank and Marie's bookshelf, one of the books on the shelf is "Deadwood"? (Anna Gunn was in the cast. Just coincidence, or a nice little prop Easter egg?)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> So did anyone else notice that when Jesse is looking at Hank and Marie's bookshelf, one of the books on the shelf is "Deadwood"? (Anna Gunn was in the cast. Just coincidence, or a nice little prop Easter egg?)


It wasn't a book, it was the DVD set...


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

They also had some Stephen King novels, but I don't think _Under the Dome_ was one of them.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> No, Jesse said he was going to get Walt "at home"..


Wrong. How could you get that so wrong? 

Jesse said, "...burning down your house was nothing. Next time I'm going to get you where you REALLY live."


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

john4200 said:


> Hank said:
> 
> 
> > No, Jesse said he was going to get Walt "at home"..
> ...


Duh...everyone knows you LIVE in a HOME...


----------



## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

I loved how Jesse called Mr White "Walter White" for the first time ever this ep!

YAY JESSE!!!


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> > No, Jesse said he was going to get Walt "at home"..
> 
> 
> Wrong. How could you get that so wrong?
> ...


Close enough, jeeze. "really live"=="at home". 

My point was actually is was *not* necessarily his actual house or "your family" but something much more metaphorical.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> Close enough, jeeze. "really live"=="at home".


Wrong again. He said "REALLY live". And everyone knows "REALLY live" does NOT equal "at home".


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Regina said:


> I loved how Jesse called Mr White "Walter White" for the first time ever this ep!
> 
> YAY JESSE!!!


I hadn't caught that. Wow!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Wrong. How could you get that so wrong?
> 
> Jesse said, "...burning down your house was nothing. Next time I'm going to get you where you REALLY live."


And we all know that Walt is in the "empire business." So my guess is that Jesse wants to do something to sabotage Walt's empire.

The next episode is called To'hajiilee, which, if you listen to the podcast, you know it is the name of the place where


Spoiler



Walt buried the money. So my guess is somehow Jesse makes a play to go after Walt where it will really hurt.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Wrong again. He said "REALLY live". And everyone knows "REALLY live" does NOT equal "at home".


I'm not wrong in thinking what I think, despite your extreme pendantics.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

john4200 said:


> Wrong again. He said "REALLY live". And everyone knows "REALLY live" does NOT equal "at home".


I agree.

Really live does not necessarily mean home.

"where you really live" I would take as a threat to his family but maybe not the physical house.

BUT it could also be that "where you really live" means Heisenberg and the reputation and EMPIRE that he has built. That is where Walt is living now. That would be something that would really hurt him.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> I'm not wrong in thinking what I think, despite your extreme pendantics.


Is that what you REALLY think?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder _*because of Walt's manipulation of him*_. He has shown over the course of the show that he didn't want pretty much any of this yet he keeps allowing himself to be dragged back in. Jesse's main fault is he's weak minded. And part of that his his drug addiction. Walt has been like a father to him and we saw last week that it's something Jesse feels because he even said the words "just tell me you dont give a **** about me" because he desperately wanted to hear the opposite. Ugh. Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that. Walt, on the other hand, is a bad person.
> 
> Just my $.02


OK....just because "someone made me do it" that makes him an OK guy? Wow...


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> OK....just because "someone made me do it" that makes him an OK guy? Wow...


It's the Flip Wilson defense.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> OK....just because "someone made me do it" that makes him an OK guy? Wow...


But that's nothing compared to the excuses Walt's defenders use..."It's OK to cheat and steal and run a drug empire and murder people, as long as you're just trying to help your family."


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Just to derail for a moment -
I watched the episode that shows Walt and Skylar looking at the house when they first bought it. Skylar pregnant with Walt Jr and Walt with hair. I had major flashback to a similar scene from Malcolm in the Middle when Hal and Lois were looking at their new house. It was kind of freaky to remember both scenes. Even funnier that in MiM they end up with 5 boys and in BB Walt is talking about how the house may not be big enough and should have 5 bedrooms.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

You know who else likes Hello Kitty?


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> OK....just because "someone made me do it" that makes him an OK guy? Wow...


No, but it does make him the most morally superior of almost everyone on the show. He's a simple minded drug addict who was manipulated into doing really bad things.And unlike virtually any other character, Jesse feels immense guilt over what he's been a part of. Between character like Gus, Mike, Walt, Saul and Jesse, yeah, Jesse gets my sympathy. He still deserves to go to jail for a long time, but since Breaking Bad isn't a courtroom or a prison drama, the showdown isn't going to be who gets the longest prison sentence, so yeah, I root for Jesse.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Zevida said:


> No, but it does make him the most morally superior of almost everyone on the show. He's a simple minded drug addict who was manipulated into doing really bad things.And unlike virtually any other character, Jesse feels immense guilt over what he's been a part of. Between character like Gus, Mike, Walt, Saul and Jesse, yeah, Jesse gets my sympathy. He still deserves to go to jail for a long time, but since Breaking Bad isn't a courtroom or a prison drama, the showdown isn't going to be who gets the longest prison sentence, so yeah, I root for Jesse.


:up:
This. You got to the thread before me so I'll just defer mostly to your response.

Does Jesse being manipulated into doing bad things make his actions okay? Of course not. I never said that.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Beryl said:


> Wasn't Jesse planning on killing the men associated with an innocent kid being killed in the hood?


Yes. But the point is that he was already willing to kill without any manipulation from Walt. And even when it came to Gale, it was only because both him and Walt were desperate. There was no manipulation on Walt's part to trick Jesse into turning on Gale. Walt truly believed that it was the only way to save both of them from Gus, and he let Jesse know his true feelings.

Walt didn't have any grand scheme to get Gale out of the picture, and manipulate Jesse into killing for him. In fact, he originally only wanted Jesse to find Gale for him. The original plan was for Walt to deal with Gale. It was only when Mike and box cutter guy had him cornered that he asked Jesse to do the deed.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Anyone notice Hank misusing the line from the movie "Silverado"?

"I don't wanna kill you, and you don't wanna be dead". Hank used a variation of that, would have been great if used it exactly.


----------



## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

Ereth said:


> I thought that at first but it's too obvious and straight forward. No, he's going after the one thing Walt REALLY cares about. His legacy.
> 
> Walt has been shown to have too much ego for his own good. The scene with the notebook of instructions, for instance, where Walt had to go on and on about how it was clearly derivative. He doesn't just want to make the best meth, he wanted people to know how much better he was than they were.
> 
> ...


Even worse? Take the credit away from him. Walt's ego would have a conniption if Jessie took credit for being Heisenberg.



Zevida said:


> No, but it does make him the most morally superior of almost everyone on the show. He's a simple minded drug addict who was manipulated into doing really bad things.And unlike virtually any other character, Jesse feels immense guilt over what he's been a part of. Between character like Gus, Mike, Walt, Saul and Jesse, yeah, Jesse gets my sympathy. He still deserves to go to jail for a long time, but since Breaking Bad isn't a courtroom or a prison drama, the showdown isn't going to be who gets the longest prison sentence, so yeah, I root for Jesse.


Why do so many people think Jessie is simple-minded? Walt's complaint about him when he was in Chemistry class was that he didn't apply himself, not that he was stupid. He's an addict, and that clouds his decision making sometimes, but he isn't stupid.


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Zevida said:


> I thought it was just being used to reset the scene. Walt pointedly picked up it up out of Saul's car and we were meant to notice the CD. Then when Jesse pulled up to the house we were also meant to notice the CD. I thought it was just a visual reset signal so we'd know we were back in time.
> 
> I never even thought about it being the confession video.


Totally agree on this. It was just a way for us to sync up the two views of the storyline.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

JoeyJoJo said:


> Even worse? Take the credit away from him. Walt's ego would have a conniption if Jessie took credit for being Heisenberg.


Oh my! I think his head would explode!



> Why do so many people think Jessie is simple-minded? Walt's complaint about him when he was in Chemistry class was that he didn't apply himself, not that he was stupid. He's an addict, and that clouds his decision making sometimes, but he isn't stupid.


I agree.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

This is what you said...


photoshopgrl said:


> "...Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that...."


I disagree (primarily because I disagree with your definition of a bad person). I think Jesse is a bad person, too....for many of the reasons you listed above that statement in that post.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this...


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Ereth said:


> I thought that at first but it's too obvious and straight forward. No, he's going after the one thing Walt REALLY cares about. His legacy.
> 
> ... The easiest first step is to out him as Heisenberg. Let it be known that the great, powerful, scary Heisenberg, is a high school teacher. Destroy his image ... That would definitely be taking Walt down where he "really lives". And would lead to the house we saw in the half-season opening, with Heisenberg spray painted on the wall.
> 
> Reveal the man behind the curtain and you destroy his power.


I think you nailed it right there. Destroy his reputation as the cancer survivor former high school chemistry teacher car wash entrepreneur decent family man and neighborhood good citizen. Take off his mask to reveal the monster to everybody, not just the DEA. Bring his criminal past to roost at his home. Air his dirty laundry ... okay, I think I've used up more than my allotted quota of metaphors.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

JoeyJoJo said:


> Even worse? Take the credit away from him. Walt's ego would have a conniption if Jessie took credit for being Heisenberg.


Ha! I love that. It's so elegant - he does really "hit Walt where he lives" (or whatever the line was) - a terrible blow to his Ego. Plus, it would help Jesse feel absolved of his guilt, maybe, by accepting more than his fair share of the blame.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

getreal said:


> I think you nailed it right there. Destroy his reputation as the cancer survivor former high school chemistry teacher car wash entrepreneur decent family man and neighborhood good citizen. Take off his mask to reveal the monster to everybody, not just the DEA. Bring his criminal past to roost at his home. Air his dirty laundry ... okay, I think I've used up more than my allotted quota of metaphors.


He'd become a legend at the school if that happened.


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

[redacted]


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Wish I hadn't clicked that. I'd highly recommend that nobody else click it if they want to be surprised.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm not gonna click it but 

(a) I wish people simply wouldn't post stuff that creates that reaction so thanks Dev
(b) I am so tempted to click it


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

GoPackGo said:


> Major spoiler image stills for S05E15:
> deleted images
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

JohnB1000 said:


> I'm not gonna click it but
> 
> (a) I wish people simply wouldn't post stuff that creates that reaction so thanks Dev
> (b) I am so tempted to click it


I TOTALLY agreee...why would you even post this in an BB ep thread when ...
#1 -- it's clearly a spoiler
and #2 -- it has nothing to do with a particular episode (if you're gonna post it, create a new thread clearly marked spoilers)

I guess you're just trying to elicit reaction from people....you must crave attention.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> and #2 -- it has nothing to do with a particular episode (if you're gonna post it, create a new thread clearly marked spoilers)


Nothing to do with BB.



Spoiler



Images came from 9-2-13 episode Under the Dome


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

...and, now I have to "skim" the thread lest I get contaminated.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Yeah, thanks Dev for taking one for the team. :up: I usually click on stuff like that, but decided against it this time, and then saw your post.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> Yeah, thanks Dev for taking one for the team. :up: I usually click on stuff like that, but decided against it this time, and then saw your post.


According to brianric's spoiler, the images posted are actually not from Breaking Bad, so that makes me feel better. But I still wish I wouldn't have seen them.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Glad I also skipped past and read DevdogAZ's warning to *AVOID THE TEMPTATION TO CLICK ON THE LINK!!!*

Can the mods just remove the post (and referenced links within the post)?



GoPackGo said:


> [redacted]


_ETA after redaction of controversial link:_ Thanks for *Br*eaking G*O*od, GoPackGo!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Looks like GoPackGo has removed the images from his post. Now brianric and bierboy need to edit their posts that quoted it.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Looks like GoPackGo has removed the images from his post. Now brianric and bierboy need to edit their posts that quoted it.


Done


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

...and done...


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

JoeyJoJo said:


> Even worse? Take the credit away from him. Walt's ego would have a conniption if Jessie took credit for being Heisenberg.
> ...


 *In today's news the agents of Albuquerque US DEA office have announced that they have found the evidence leading to the supplier of the especially potent blue meth that has plagued the community.

The DEA says it was made by a late chemistry wizard named Gale Boetticher.*


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Who is that?


----------



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

MonsterJoe said:


> Who is that?


Gale *Bedeker* is going to be pissed when he hears that he didn't get credit!


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Think about how much that would piss WW off...not only did they give the credit to someone else - they gave it to someone who doesn't even exist!


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

GoPackGo said:


> Gale *Bedeker* is going to be pissed when he hears that he didn't get credit!


And Gale Boetticher is going to be even more angry than this Bedeker fellow. 

(well, if he were still alive, he might be, if he were not such a mild-mannered guy)


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

john4200 said:


> And Gale Boetticher is going to be even more angry than this Bedeker fellow.
> 
> (well, if he were still alive, he might be, if he were not such a mild-mannered guy)


Ok, OK.  I wonder if Gail Bennett is a co-worker. My mind is going.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Jessie has done some terrible things, but he seems to show genuine remorse, which is more than anyone else has shown.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

JLucPicard said:


> Jesse walking away from the plaza situation - cue the vehicle sliding around the corner and screeching to a halt next to him. And that vehicle was a minivan? Since when are they capable of that??? lol


When a DEA agent trained in that kind of driving is behind the wheel?


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I didn't realize that Jesse did not know about the family connection. He looked stunned at the picture of Skyler and Santa.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Regina said:


> p.s. Is Walter White the last person on Earth (besides my mom) to own a flip-phone?


Burners.

You buy cheap. You throw them away.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I didn't realize that Jesse did not know about the family connection. He looked stunned at the picture of Skyler and Santa.


He knew about the family connection. I think it was just surreal for him to be seeing the Walter White version of Heisenberg.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I didn't realize that Jesse did not know about the family connection. He looked stunned at the picture of Skyler and Santa.


The family connection to what? That picture wouldn't indicate any connection to the drug trade.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> That seemed to go by awfully quick. But I don't think Jesse would admit to murder.


Exactly right.

People confessing tend to do it in stages. First round they protect themselves and only tell the stories implicating others and tend to not disclose stuff they did.

I'm sure Jesse admitted to many things, but not murder.

And Skylar has no issue at all killing Jesse. She's hated him for a long time now. And now he's actually coming after her.


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## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

uncdrew said:


> I'm sure Jesse admitted to many things, but not murder.


But Hank referred to him as a murderer when speaking to Gomez. I think we can assume that Jesse told them about Gale based on that.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

If Jesse told them about Drew Sharp, then he's already admitted to being an accomplice to murder. Based on Jesse's state of mind as we've seen it, I don't think he was holding anything back when he made his confession.

On a side note, during this week's podcast, they said that Jesse's full confession will be available on the special edition Blu-ray set.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Otherwise, it's just shades of despicability. Which the show makes fascinating, which is its genius.


Didn't The Sopranos have the same thing going on?

EDIT: I know you didn't say Breaking Bad is the only show to have ever done this, of course.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him. He has shown over the course of the show that he didn't want pretty much any of this yet he keeps allowing himself to be dragged back in. Jesse's main fault is he's weak minded. And part of that his his drug addiction. Walt has been like a father to him and we saw last week that it's something Jesse feels because he even said the words "just tell me you dont give a **** about me" because he desperately wanted to hear the opposite. Ugh. Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that. Walt, on the other hand, is a bad person.
> 
> Just my $.02


Jesse's not a bad person?

Yeowzers, that's insane. The list of bad things he's done in his life is worthy of 10 bad people.

So he gets a bit weepy because a kid he liked was poisoned. He's still a bad person. And has been for years, since we first met him.

A good person would have done things very differently than Jesse.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> If Jesse told them about Drew Sharp, then he's already admitted to being an accomplice to murder. Based on Jesse's state of mind as we've seen it, I don't think he was holding anything back when he made his confession.
> 
> On a side note, during this week's podcast, they said that Jesse's full confession will be available on the special edition Blu-ray set.


Pulling a uncdrew and quoting myself:

As long as we're talking about the podcast, something I found interesting that we haven't discussed in the previous threads for the last few episodes is that the episodes we've seen so far for this season were filmed in December and January in and around Albuquerque. They have talked about how cold it was for some of the exterior shoots, including the scene with Walt digging the hole for the money and the scene with Walt, Jesse, and Saul in the desert. Supposedly it was like 5 or 10 degrees on those days, and the actors would run to their cars and/or shove their hands in their pockets filled with hand warmers as soon as a take was over. I'm still not sure how they managed to film those scenes without being able to see everyone's breath as they talked.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Im glad Hank finally brought Gomie into this. He shoulda done it right away.


Might end Gomie's career too, unfortunately.

Gomie's gonna have to decide if and when to report this, and I don't think can hide behind "Hank told me not to."


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Might end Gomie's career too, unfortunately.
> 
> Gomie's gonna have to decide if and when to report this, and I don't think can hide behind "Hank told me not to."


That's a good point. Hank's goose is cooked either way, but Gomey basically has about 24-48 hours to report this to the DEA, so they better be hoping that whatever Jesse's plan is, Jesse is able to pull it off very fast.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Was it realistic that Jesse could stand in the living room with a lit lighter and all those gasoline fumes without them igniting?
> 
> So if Jesse told Hank about the Drew Sharp killing, that means he told about the train heist. That seems like it would be fairly easy to verify.


How long ago was the train heist? What they stole was replaced with water, creating a very slightly diluted methylamine -- might already be used and not noticed.

That crime seemed like after a time would be very hard to prove, if even noticed.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> How long ago was the train heist? What they stole was replaced with water, creating a very slightly diluted methylamine -- might already be used and not noticed.
> 
> That crime seemed like after a time would be very hard to prove, if even noticed.


You're right. I had forgotten that they only stole a small percentage of the total amount of methylamine in the tanker. I was thinking that when it got to the other end, they basically had a tanker car full of water. But you are correct. They had slightly diluted methylamine, which they probably wouldn't have even noticed if they weren't specifically looking for it, and it would probably all be distributed and used by now.

So please disregard my saying that they could verify Jesse's story through that means.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

netringer said:


> *In today's news the agents of Albuquerque US DEA office have announced that they have found the evidence leading to the supplier of the especially potent blue meth that has plagued the community.
> 
> The DEA says it was made by a late chemistry wizard named Gale Boetticher.*


I disagree with the thought that taking Heisenberg from Walt would destroy Walt. Walt is much smarter than that, and wouldn't ruin everything to prove he's Heisenberg.

He knows he was the best at it, the only people he might care know it was Walt. I really don't think he cares much if the public thinks it was him or not. In fact, if he could make the world think someone else was Heisenberg I think he would and be quite content in his genius.

It's like the Kaiser Sose quote: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

GoPackGo said:


> But Hank referred to him as a murderer when speaking to Gomez. I think we can assume that Jesse told them about Gale based on that.


True, I didn't see that until after I posted. That sure does lean towards him saying that.

Unless Hank just assumes with all the deaths surrounding Walt/Jesse that it's safe to pin some on Jesse. Truly, I don't think Jesse's character would have said that. He seemed hellbent in screwing Mr. White and I would assume his conversation was focused on that. But evidence does lead to towards Jesse telling all, including him murdering someone.

I still content Jesse is a bad person though.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I didn't realize that Jesse did not know about the family connection. He looked stunned at the picture of Skyler and Santa.





modnar said:


> He knew about the family connection. I think it was just surreal for him to be seeing the Walter White version of Heisenberg.





Bierboy said:


> The family connection to what? That picture wouldn't indicate any connection to the drug trade.


I think the photo with Skyler and Santa just made Jesse aware of the family as normal, happy people -- versus the stilted supper he shared with them at their lowest point in their relationship.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> I think the photo with Skyler and Santa just made Jesse aware of the family as normal, happy people -- versus the stilted supper he shared with them at their lowest point in their relationship.





















(Animated gifs)


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Burners.
> 
> You buy cheap. You throw them away.


 Which brings up the questions:


How izzit that Jesse has memorized whatever is the current phone number that calls the current burner that Walt is using?
How izzit that Jesse found one of the last outdoor public phones in America conveniently located at the edge of the scene?
How izzit that Jesse had change for the phone? They don't take $100s.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

erm...Root for who you want...but pretty much NOBODY in this show is a good person by most good people's standards.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

uncdrew said:


> Jesse's not a bad person?
> 
> Yeowzers, that's insane. The list of bad things he's done in his life is worthy of 10 bad people.
> 
> ...


This, so much this....Jesse is a bad person...period.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> (Animated gifs)


Wasn't it Marie that asked Jesse if he wanted lasagna? I wonder what he said to her about it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> This, so much this....Jesse is a bad person...period.


Well, not period...and I think that's the problem. He's not a mustache-twirling villain; he's a very human monster, like monsters tend to be. Nobody is pure evil (or pure good). Jesse is very much one of the bad guys, and it's not even a close call. But because, like all humans (and unlike most TV villains), he is portrayed as having some sympathetic characteristics, people who are used to mustache-twirling villains are willing to excuse the fact that he is, well, evil in oh-so-many ways.

He is a terrible (if sometimes likable) person. It's just standing next to Walt that he looks somewhat less terrible.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

netringer said:


> Which brings up the questions:
> 
> 
> How izzit that Jesse has memorized whatever is the current phone number that calls the current burner that Walt is using?
> ...


Fine points. I too was surprised by the pay phone, but I'm guessing the intrawebs quickly proved that there is one in that location.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, not period...and I think that's the problem. He's not a mustache-twirling villain; he's a very human monster, like monsters tend to be. Nobody is pure evil (or pure good). Jesse is very much one of the bad guys, and it's not even a close call. But because, like all humans (and unlike most TV villains), he is portrayed as having some sympathetic characteristics, people who are used to mustache-twirling villains are willing to excuse the fact that he is, well, evil in oh-so-many ways.
> 
> He is a terrible (if sometimes likable) person. It's just standing next to Walt that he looks somewhat less terrible.


Yep.

What's the full evil spectrum. If Walt Junior and the baby are far right, who is farther... Err... further left? Walt? Todd? Mike? Gus? Declan? Tuco? Hector? Gonzo? Kuby?

Heck, Badger, Saul, Huell all seem like angels.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> Yep.
> 
> What's the full evil spectrum. If Walt Junior and the baby are far right, who is farther... Err... further left? Walt? Todd? Mike? Gus? Declan? Tuco? Hector? Gonzo? Kuby?
> 
> Heck, Badger, Saul, Huell all seem like angels.


The fun thing about this show is that it consists mostly of two types of people: those at the far left end of the spectrum, and those that the people at the far left end of the spectrum have dragged with them to the far left end of the spectrum.

And Walt Jr. and the baby, who are just clueless and never participate in the story.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Jessie has done some terrible things, but he seems to show genuine remorse, which is more than anyone else has shown.


This reminds me of a scene from another show (not getting too specific to avoid spoilers) where a priest basically told the character that his sins were okay, as long as he "hates sin".


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Fine points. I too was surprised by the pay phone, but I'm guessing the intrawebs quickly proved that there is one in that location.


I actually just did a Google street view around that plaza and there are no pay phones, but this show is supposed to be taking place several years ago, so I can forgive them that issue.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

netringer said:


> [*]How izzit that Jesse found one of the last outdoor public phones in America conveniently located at the edge of the scene?


I had to do a double take at the local Dennys when I saw two pay stations. Even though the Dennys is at a Flying J truck stop one would think truckers would have cell phones.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

john4200 said:


> This reminds me of a scene from another show (not getting too specific to avoid spoilers) where a priest basically told the character that his sins were okay, as long as he "hates sin".


Not what I was saying at all. Jesse has done far more evil than any of the other major characters, save Walt. I was just pointing out that at least he recognizes what he has done and is haunted by it, unlike, say Walt, so that makes him more human and thus more relatable.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I am wondering since we didn't see what Jesse said on the video, and we didn't see how Gomez was pulled into this, if this is building up to all being a big play by Walt and Jesse to frame either Hank, the guys who took over the operation, Lydia, or even Saul. 

This show isn't that sloppy where we would never see what was said by Hank to Gomez or what Jesse said on the video, that wasn't included in order to redirect the viewer.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

DeDondeEs said:


> This show isn't that sloppy where we would never see what was said by Hank to Gomez or what Jesse said on the video, that wasn't included in order to redirect the viewer.


and it's certainly not sloppy enough to allow what you suggested to be the outcome after all this setup. That would basically undo everything seen in 5B to this point and make it all a big sham. There's no way that's happening.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

DeDondeEs said:


> I am wondering since we didn't see what Jesse said on the video, and we didn't see how Gomez was pulled into this, if this is building up to all being a big play by Walt and Jesse to frame either Hank, the guys who took over the operation, Lydia, or even Saul.
> 
> This show isn't that sloppy where we would never see what was said by Hank to Gomez or what Jesse said on the video, that wasn't included in order to redirect the viewer.


As intriguing as the idea might seem, there's no getting past the fact that we saw (when noone else was around) Jesse figure out the ricin had been lifted, then go beat up Saul, then go pour gasoline inside Walt's house. Walt then walked through his house (gun drawn), clearly nervous about Jesse.

There's no time for Jesse to have been with Walt to plan anything after that.

Now what _might_ happen is that Jesse may try to save Walt. I know that's a long shot, and I don't think it will happen, but there's a small chance. Hear me out. The key moment would be when Jesse was sitting in Hank's livingroom, Jesse said something about Walt not caring about him(Jesse), and then Hank said "not from what you've told us..".. Hank then proceeded to show him examples in the testimony that showed Walt's concern for Jesse.

What Hank was going for (if I remember the scene correctly) was to tell Jesse that Walt is always _pretending_ to care about him, so (fuzzy memory here) - so he could trust meeting with Walt that Walt wouldn't try to hurt him(?).

But I saw a tiny sliver of a chance there that Jesse saw someone else saying that Walt cared about him (however briefly) as a chance to reenforce what he hoped for deep down - approval from Walt. It'd have to grow, and he'd have to spend time thinking about it, and again I doubt it from what we've seen, but I did think that after giving that testimony, hearing that it wasn't obvious to everyone else that Walt would kill him gave him some pause.

So I'm labeling everything that happened during the wearing-a-wire meet with an asterisk for now, just in case Jesse had different intentions there. Was the phone call an act? Maybe a code they planned years ago for if one ever got caught? Maybe. But the bald guy waiting for the kid in the park was too clear of a tell that Jesse actually thought Walt was betraying him.

So, no, I don't think Jesse and Walt are planning anything, and I don't think that Jesse is trying to help Walt in any way. But, it's _possible_.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

MonsterJoe said:


> erm...Root for who you want...but pretty much NOBODY in this show is a good person by most good people's standards.


Heh.
My husband does not watch BB- wants to start from scratch in a binge watch after the finale.
But he walked through the room the other day as I was watching, glanced at the screen and asked "That's a bad guy, right?"

All I could do was shake my head and say "Hon, they're _all_ bad guys."


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I thought there would be a long discussion at how cold and heartless Hank was as he discussed Walt possibly killing Jesse. He and Skyler both crossed the same threshold (albeit from very different perspectives). But I was a lot more stunned by Hank's easy dismissal of Jesse's life's worth than with Skyler's.


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## jgickler (Apr 7, 2000)

One thing I am wondering about. When Jesse first entered the plaza, someone ran into him, I believe they had a blue hoodie on. When I first saw it, it looked a little like Todd. I actually rewound, and didn't see anything to indicate it was Matt Damon, so I just continued to watch the scene. But now I am wondering if maybe it was Todd and there was more to the scene then just Jesse bumping into a random guy.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Anubys said:


> I thought there would be a long discussion at how cold and heartless Hank was as he discussed Walt possibly killing Jesse. He and Skyler both crossed the same threshold (albeit from very different perspectives). But I was a lot more stunned by Hank's easy dismissal of Jesse's life's worth than with Skyler's.


I won't be sad if Hank is blown away by someone.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

betts4 said:


> I won't be sad if Hank is blown away by someone.


Nor I....

What I find interesting is that, in all the theories being floated here at TCF, almost all involve many if not nearly all of the BB principals dying. I'm feeling that many will survive in various alternative lives....


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I thought there would be a long discussion at how cold and heartless Hank was as he discussed Walt possibly killing Jesse. He and Skyler both crossed the same threshold (albeit from very different perspectives). But I was a lot more stunned by Hank's easy dismissal of Jesse's life's worth than with Skyler's.


At this point, Hank and Skyler have joined Walt (and Jesse) in the "broken bad" column (although I suppose Jesse was always there). Marie is straddling the line.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jgickler said:


> One thing I am wondering about. When Jesse first entered the plaza, someone ran into him, I believe they had a blue hoodie on. When I first saw it, it looked a little like Todd. I actually rewound, and didn't see anything to indicate it was *Meth Damon*, so I just continued to watch the scene. But now I am wondering if maybe it was Todd and there was more to the scene then just Jesse bumping into a random guy.


FYP ...


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I don't really get the hate for Hank or that he has broken bad at all. He's a bit of a blowhard and he did two things that were not permitted for a cop but were perfectly understandable: beating up Jesse after being tricked about his wife being gravely injured in a car crash and putting a tracker on Gus's car. When he realized Walt was Heisenburg, he had no proof and might have broken DEA protocol, but didn't do anything illegal or immoral.

Not minding if Jesse dies is pretty cold, but not a whole lot different than what most cops would probably think in that situation. It is also not much different than the people rejoicing that Ariel Castro died or wishing he would be raped in prison.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

I like Hank as a character on the show.

but he put Jessie in the hospital. For no reason. He stalked the kid like a predator and beat him to within inches of his life. For no reason. I don't find that very understandable...ESPECIALLY for a cop.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

For no reason? Jesse, a drug dealer he suspected of being part of the blue sky ring, was able to get Hank's personal cell phone number and made a call pretending to be a hospital indicating Marie was basically on her death bed. All to keep from getting busted. 

That's messed up. I don't condone physical violence, but I think Hank's reaction was understandable.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

But that's not what happened. Walt called Saul and Saul's secretary called Hank pretending to be the hospital. Jessie had nothing to do with it.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

MonsterJoe said:


> But that's not what happened. Walt called Saul and Saul's secretary called Hank pretending to be the hospital. Jessie had nothing to do with it.


I don't remember the specifics, but did Hank just assume that Jesse was behind the call? Makes sense, as at the time he didn't know to suspect Walt.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MonsterJoe said:


> But that's not what happened. Walt called Saul and Saul's secretary called Hank pretending to be the hospital. Jessie had nothing to do with it.


But Hank only knew Jesse was in the RV, and when he learned that the call about Marie was a hoax, and that the RV had been destroyed while he was at the hospital, he knew either that Jesse made the call, or had someone make it on his behalf. So even thought Walt actually arranged the call, it was a reasonable assumption on Hank's part that Jesse was involved. It never occurred to Hank that Heisenberg was actually in the RV with Jesse at the time.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Hank owes Jesse an apology.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida said:


> That's messed up. I don't condone physical violence, but I think Hank's reaction was understandable.


The kind of understandable reaction for which a normal person should go to prison, and for which a cop should be fired, barred for life from any job in law enforcement, and go to prison for a much longer time.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Of course he assumed it was Jessie - that's pretty much my point.

So, he had no proof, and barely even circumstantial reasons (which are also heavily flawed) to believe it was Jessie...and that is an understandable reaction to put someone in the hospital?

ehh...I don't know about you, but I'm looking for a little more level-headedness from my LEOs. 

bad cop.

[eta]

..or what Rob said.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The kind of understandable reaction for which a normal person should go to prison, and for which a cop should be fired, barred for life from any job in law enforcement, and go to prison for a much longer time.





MonsterJoe said:


> Of course he assumed it was Jessie - that's pretty much my point.
> 
> So, he had no proof, and barely even circumstantial reasons (which are also heavily flawed) to believe it was Jessie...and that is an understandable reaction to put someone in the hospital?
> 
> ...


Pretty much what they said.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Nor I....
> 
> What I find interesting is that, in all the theories being floated here at TCF, almost all involve many if not nearly all of the BB principals dying. I'm feeling that many will survive in various alternative lives....


I am 99% sure Walt lives.
I am 100% sure Skylar and Hank's wife live.
I am 90% sure Hank lives.
I am 50% sure Jesse lives.
I am 75% sure Saul lives.

I think Jesse just takes some money and drives away. Really not sure why he hasn't done it already.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> I think Jesse just takes some money and drives away. Really not sure why he hasn't done it already.


The same reason he was throwing it all out the car window. It's blood money. Jesse is having what back in the day we would have called a "nervous breakdown".


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The kind of understandable reaction for which a normal person should go to prison, and for which a cop should be fired, barred for life from any job in law enforcement, and go to prison for a much longer time.


Yeah, I think Hank has broken bad too.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> ...I think Jesse just takes some money and drives away. Really not sure why he hasn't done it already.


No matter how good a deal he makes, Jesse is gonna do some time now, and hafta dodge Uncle Jack's minions in prison.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Jstkiddn said:


> The same reason he was throwing it all out the car window. It's blood money. Jesse is having what back in the day we would have called a "nervous breakdown".


I'm not saying he drives off stage left with millions of dollars. I'm just saying he drives off with a few grand to start over. I assume the reason he hasn't is that he feels there is "unfinished business" in getting Walt busted/killed.

However, Jesse should know he's no match for Walt. Walt caring about Jesse might even the odds a bit, but it'll have to be a doozy...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> Yeah, I think Hank has broken bad too.


And I think he was always bad, in a petty-corruption way. He's just gotten more dangerously bad.

The sad thing is, he has always (and no doubt continues to) seen himself as the hero of the story.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

He's been violent with people since season 1.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

[media]http://troll.me/images/conspiracy-keanu/woah.jpg[/media]


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## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

Jessie's "Code" is reminiscent of Dexter's Code. Jessie wont harm innocents and doesn't like people who do. He seems to be ok with hurting "players" in the game.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Pralix said:


> Jessie's "Code" is reminiscent of Dexter's Code. Jessie wont harm innocents and doesn't like people who do. He seems to be ok with hurting "players" in the game.


The big difference being, Dexter thinks about The Code. And Jesse doesn't think, well, at all.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> However, Jesse should know he's no match for Walt.


Until now. Nobody knows Heisenberg as well as Jesse, and whatever it is, Jesse just figured out Walt's cryptonite, and is going to go all Lux Luther on Walt's ass.

I think when Jesse said "I'm going to get you where you really live" he meant that Walt really lives inside the alter-reality of Heisenberg's mind, and is going to do something like mentioned upthread, and really challenge his pride and hubris in order to get Walt to do something really drastic, which will lead to his ultimate downfall. I say Jesse (and Saul) are the last men standing.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Pralix said:


> Jessie's "Code" is reminiscent of Dexter's Code. Jessie wont harm innocents and doesn't like people who do. He seems to be ok with hurting "players" in the game.


Other than Brock, who it can be argued that Walt knew the harm would only be temporary, what non-innocents has Walt harmed?

I'll admit we don't know what Walt would have done about Drew Sharp had Todd not made the decision for him.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Other than Brock, who it can be argued that Walt knew the harm would only be temporary, what non-innocents has Walt harmed?
> 
> I'll admit we don't know what Walt would have done about Drew Sharp had Todd not made the decision for him.


Jane. Walt didn't harm her but he didn't save her when he could have.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Pralix said:


> Jessie's "Code" is reminiscent of Dexter's Code. Jessie wont harm innocents and doesn't like people who do. He seems to be ok with hurting "players" in the game.


I like this.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> Jane. Walt didn't harm her but he didn't save her when he could have.


But she wasn't an innocent. She was trying to extort Walt and was dragging Jesse down the drug rabbit hole after he'd worked so hard to be clean.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Other than Brock, who it can be argued that Walt knew the harm would only be temporary, what non-innocents has Walt harmed?
> 
> I'll admit we don't know what Walt would have done about Drew Sharp had Todd not made the decision for him.


What about the lawyer Mike hired to deliver money to his guys? He was one of the ones hit in prison. I guess he's a grey area innocent.

Walt has indirectly caused the death of a lot of other innocents.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Pralix said:


> Jessie's "Code" is reminiscent of Dexter's Code. Jessie wont harm innocents and doesn't like people who do. He seems to be ok with hurting "players" in the game.


It is also the same as Jax's code in SoA.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Beryl said:


> It is also the same as Jax's code in SoA.


And Omar code in The Wire.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Zevida said:


> Walt has indirectly caused the death of a lot of other innocents.


Aside from the passengers aboard the plane that collided in mid-air because Jane's father screwed up (which I have no doubt some people here will blame on Walt -- though I'd argue that these are the fault of Jane's father, not Walt, otherwise everything can just be blamed on a butterfly someplace), can you name an innocent who died directly or even indirectly because of Walt? I want to know what you define as "an innocent."


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Zevida said:


> What about the lawyer Mike hired to deliver money to his guys? He was one of the ones hit in prison. I guess he's a grey area innocent.


Someone who was hired by a criminal to pay other criminals to keep quiet? That's not a grey area at all. That's a player in the game, and therefore not an innocent.



Zevida said:


> Walt has indirectly caused the death of a lot of other innocents.


That's what I'm asking. Besides Brock, who else has Walt harmed that was not somehow a player in the game? People who partook of his blue meth? Those people aren't innocents. They were going to get meth one way or another. Family members of those who used Walt's blue meth? They would have been the family members of someone who used a different kind of meth.

I guess if you want to talk about the passengers on the 737 that crashed, then maybe an argument could be made. But that's so indirect that it's hardly surprising that Walt wouldn't feel responsible for that.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Jane. Walt didn't harm her but he didn't save her when he could have.


You could argue that Walt was just looking out for Jesse by not saving Jane. If she had lived, it was just a matter of time before she would OD'd again, and the next time Jesse might have OD'd as well.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

betts4 said:


> Jane. Walt didn't harm her but he didn't save her when he could have.


She was hardly innocent. She was blackmailing Walt.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I think this was posted after the first half of S5 finished airing, but it's always fun to look at:










According to this, Walt is only directly responsible for 11 murders, but that's obviously VERY debateable, because many of the deaths that are attributed to other killers are directly as a result of Walt, such as Gus Fring (attributed to Tio Salamanca) and all of Mike's guys in prison (attributed to "Multiple Assailants").


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's what I'm asking. Besides Brock, who else has Walt harmed that was not somehow a player in the game?


Here are a few:
Jane's father was harmed. 
Hank was harmed. 
The White children are being harmed with all of the lies and deception.
Marie is harmed. Aunts (and likely uncles) can feel her concern about her nieces and nephews remaining in the White household. I'd want to kidnap my nieces and nephews in similar conditions. 
The family of the kid that was killed after the train heist was harmed. 
People were harmed at the nursing home. The emotional harm on the staff, residents, and their families can't be discounted. Even if no one else was physically hurt, the cost of the insurance is borne by others.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Beryl said:


> Here are a few:
> Jane's father was harmed.
> Hank was harmed.
> The White children are being harmed with all of the lies and deception.
> ...


Jane wasn't an innocent.
Hank isn't an innocent.
Walt Jr. and Holly have no idea what's going on, so no harm at this point.
Marie stopped being an innocent when she tried to kidnap Holly.
Walt didn't kill Drew Sharp.

We're talking about physical harm that Walt inflicts and should feel remorse for. Are there intangible harms being done because of Walt's actions? Sure. But that's not really what we're talking about here.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DreadPirateRob said:


> You could argue that Walt was just looking out for Jesse by not saving Jane. If she had lived, it was just a matter of time before she would OD'd again, and the next time Jesse might have OD'd as well.


Actually, I think if Jane was willing to extort Walt, she's be willing to roll over on him the second she's arrested for drug use/abuse/DWI, etc. Because she was a huge risk for exposing Heisenberg, I believe that's why Walt let her die.. and only secondarily because of the harm she might have caused to Jesse.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> We're talking about physical harm that Walt inflicts and should feel remorse for.


What about those two laundry workers that Walt recruited to help clean up the superlab? They were innocent (not involved in the meth production), but the last we saw them, they were being escorted "elsewhere"... while we don't know what happened, I do believe they were harmed, even if they were (best case) deported, and (worst case) took a trip to Belize.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Hank said:


> What about those two laundry workers that Walt recruited to help clean up the superlab? They were innocent (not involved in the meth production), but the last we saw them, they were being escorted "elsewhere"... while we don't know what happened, I do believe they were harmed, even if they were (best case) deported, and (worst case) took a trip to Belize.


I don't think anyone working in that laundry wasn't aware there was something going on that they were to stay away from and not talk about.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

They're still pretty innocent on the scale. Just because they might know "something" was going on that they were told to stay away from, they're no longer innocent, when they need those jobs to feed their family?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Hank said:


> They're still pretty innocent on the scale. Just because they might know "something" was going on that they were told to stay away from, they're no longer innocent, when they need those jobs to feed their family?


Walt needs to feed his family too. That's not what makes one "innocent."


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

So nobody working in or for the laundry is innocent? That's a pretty strict interpretation.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> I am 99% sure Walt lives.
> I am 100% sure Skylar and Hank's wife live.
> I am 90% sure Hank lives.
> I am 50% sure Jesse lives.
> I am 75% sure Saul lives.


I think you are waaaay too optimistic on almost all of these.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> What about those two laundry workers that Walt recruited to help clean up the superlab? They were innocent (not involved in the meth production), but the last we saw them, they were being escorted "elsewhere"... while we don't know what happened, I do believe they were harmed, even if they were (best case) deported, and (worst case) took a trip to Belize.





Hank said:


> They're still pretty innocent on the scale. Just because they might know "something" was going on that they were told to stay away from, they're no longer innocent, when they need those jobs to feed their family?


I don't remember the specifics of this, but I do remember that I didn't get the sense these women were harmed. They were probably given some hush money and relocated.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Hank said:


> Actually, I think if Jane was willing to extort Walt, she's be willing to roll over on him the second she's arrested for drug use/abuse/DWI, etc. Because she was a huge risk for exposing Heisenberg, I believe that's why Walt let her die.. and only secondarily because of the harm she might have caused to Jesse.


Which is why I said "you could argue"...


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think this was posted after the first half of S5 finished airing, but it's always fun to look at:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> According to this, Walt is only directly responsible for 11 murders, but that's obviously VERY debateable, because many of the deaths that are attributed to other killers are directly as a result of Walt, such as Gus Fring (attributed to Tio Salamanca) and all of Mike's guys in prison (attributed to "Multiple Assailants").


Lydia needs to be on that Periodic Table, as she initially put Mike's guys on the list.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> Lydia needs to be on that Periodic Table, as she initially put Mike's guys on the list.


She'd be lumped in with the "Multiple Assailants." Uncle Jack and crew would be in there as well. And if the chart us updated to include the stuff from the final episodes, the Lydia/Todd/Uncle Jack crew will be responsible for a whole bunch more deaths.


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## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> She was hardly innocent. She was blackmailing Walt.


I would count her as an innocent to a point. She was not involved with the "business" per se.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Marco said:


> I think you are waaaay too optimistic on almost all of these.




We'll see...


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

In the Christian vade mecum Lydia is a seller of purple. It's true, look it up!

So, I'm thinking about Banjo Eyes and and Marie on a beach in Belize going through cabana boys like Gus going through gizzards. The End.

(As the credits roil over the scene Skyler is in the background participating in a bikini car wash fund raiser. She's vacuuming interiors and we wish she weren't.)


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

netringer said:


> No matter how good a deal he makes, Jesse is gonna do some time now, and hafta dodge Uncle Jack's minions in prison.


Especially since he didn't talk to a lawyer before giving all (or at least some of) the details to Hank and Gomez.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Hank said:


> Actually, I think if Jane was willing to extort Walt, she's be willing to roll over on him the second she's arrested for drug use/abuse/DWI, etc. Because she was a huge risk for exposing Heisenberg, I believe that's why Walt let her die.. and only secondarily because of the harm she might have caused to Jesse.


I think Walt letting Jane die was less of a true concern for Jesse and more of a way to get rid of the distraction that was causing issues with his budding empire.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

What does everyone think are the chances that Jesse saw the lottery ticket and either a) took it just because or b) took it realizing it was some kind of hint.

Before we knew that Hank had intercepted Jesse's arson attempt, I thought maybe Jesse had found the lottery ticket, someone figured out what it meant (okay, maybe a long-shot, especially in his state of mind), and bolted. Of course, that left a question as to why he left the car, but it turns out this wasn't it anyway.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

modnar said:


> What does everyone think are the chances that Jesse saw the lottery ticket and either a) took it just because or b) took it realizing it was some kind of hint...


Extremely slim to none...


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Of course if Jesse had burned the house down then the lottery ticket would have been useless. Thus proving.......ahh never mind.

On the podcast this week Gilligan said definitively that this is season 5B AND that Jesse has said Walter White before.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

JohnB1000 said:


> Of course if Jesse had burned the house down then the lottery ticket would have been useless. Thus proving.......ahh never mind.
> 
> On the podcast this week Gilligan said definitively that this is season 5B AND that Jesse has said Walter White before.


Yes. He has.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I know, Vince Gilligan said


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

betts4 said:


> Yes. He has.


Wow...I hadn't recalled that...I thought this was the first time. I was so impressed with his saying it!

Oh, well...I am LOVING this season anyway...can't believe only 4 more eps!!!


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

In the last 2 weeks I've watched The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad. Talk about 2 great shows.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Kamakzie said:


> In the last 2 weeks I've watched The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad. Talk about 2 great shows.


What's the other great show?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Hank said:


> What's the other great show?


That attempt at a joke really made no sense when it follows his sentence :up:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> That attempt at a joke really made no sense when it follows his sentence :up:


Sure it does. His sentence mentioned two shows, one of which is great.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> That attempt at a joke really made no sense when it follows his sentence :up:


No ... that was precisely the right way for that joke to be worded. 
Kudos, Hank!


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

getreal said:


> No ... that was precisely the right way for that joke to be worded.
> Kudos, Hank!


Oh, that makes it a fact then !!!!


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> That attempt at a joke really made no sense when it follows his sentence :up:


It was a well quipped joke, and rec'd a hearty chuckle from me.



JohnB1000 said:


> Oh, that makes it a fact then !!!!


It was a joke, not a wikipedia statement.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

It's better than the joke I was going to make.

I won't tell you what it was, but I'll say that it involved a camel, three pennies, and some applesauce.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

MonsterJoe said:


> It's better than the joke I was going to make.
> 
> I won't tell you what it was, but I'll say that it involved a camel, three pennies, and some applesauce.


That's my favorite joke.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Lol


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> That's my favorite joke.


I prefer the version with the turnips, but whatever.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

... they might * Br*eak *B*ad.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

RE: Innocents Walt has killed or caused to be killed/dead...

There are probably dozens of people that he's killed just by making the meth, from ODs and drug related death. Whether you can call meth heads innocent? On this show's scale, pretty much.

RE: Jesse being an addict...

I know lots of people will disagree with me on this.

But I just don't see Jesse as being portrayed as an addict. SURE he takes a lot of drugs. I really haven't seen him taking drugs out of a _physical_ "need," but as more to distract himself from his pain and guilt, which never worked.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Peter000 said:


> ...But I just don't see Jesse as being portrayed as an addict. SURE he takes a lot of drugs. I really haven't seen him taking drugs out of a _physical_ "need," but as more to distract himself from his pain and guilt, which never worked.


I would argue that addiction is not just a "physical" need...


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