# Pop-up ads



## PHeadland

Leaving aside how I feel about paying around $1,000 for a TiVo plus lifetime service in order to be pestered by advertising (hint - not positive)...

We are seeing a "Cryptonite free trial" ad op up above the pause bar, Pressing "down" gets rid of it OK, but the damn' thing comes back every single time we pause, which is getting really, really old, because we generally pause so we can look at the picture, and the advert covers up a big chunk of it. I did the SPS-Pause trick (which I did not want to do, because I find the bar useful) but even then the ad flashes up annoyingly for about half a second when I pause.

I don't recall our old TiVo HD behaving like this (I vaguely recollect that once you dismissed an ad it was gone for good) - is this something new, or do I just remember wrong?

More to the point, is there some way to retain the bar but stop the excessively frequent pop-up ad (I don't mind seeing it once in a while, it's the excessive repetition/flashing that is infuriating).

As to the value of the advertising; right now I would happily punch someone from Cryptonite in the face, because it is so intrusive and annoying. The chances of me every wanting to buy something from them are zero.


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## DeltaOne

PHeadland said:


> Leaving aside how I feel about paying around $1,000 for a TiVo plus lifetime service in order to be pestered by advertising (hint - not positive)...


I'm a new TiVo owner, so I wasn't sure about the history of ads. A week or so ago I remember seeing something on the TiVo Central page (I think) about CBS shows. Now the Carbonite ad.

Whether one is paying month to month or lifetime -- it seems unfair to get ads. If the TiVo service was free I wouldn't mind the ads -- but it's not free.


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## kbmb

I can't STAND the ads while pausing a show or even worse....when you go to delete a recording at the end, the Keep or Delete box shows up and then a split second later a carbonite ad shows up at the bottom.

If they really have to do ads, do it in the discovery bar.

-Kevin


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## moyekj

PHeadland said:


> I did the SPS-Pause trick (which I did not want to do, because I find the bar useful) but even then the ad flashes up annoyingly for about half a second when I pause.


 The Pause Ads were "upgraded" recently and they do take longer to appear and disappear even with my beloved SPSPS setting which is annoying. I turned off SPSPS setting just to take a longer look at the Pause Ad and it's ridiculous how big and intrusive it has become. I can tolerate ads in Discovery Bar or main page but TiVo is taking it too far these days...


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## cosmicvoid

"spsps" ??


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## ajayabb

cosmicvoid said:


> "spsps" ??


Select Play Select Pause Select (Easter Egg)


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## cosmicvoid

ajayabb said:


> Select Play Select Pause Select (Easter Egg)


From which screens is this usable?

Are there other Easter Egg commands? How do I find out about them?


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## crxssi

DeltaOne said:


> Whether one is paying month to month or lifetime -- it seems unfair to get ads. If the TiVo service was free I wouldn't mind the ads -- but it's not free.


Many of us totally agree. I find pause ads to be annoying because many times I am pausing because I want to see what is on the screen. And when you dismiss a damn pause ad, don't you think that should "stick" for at LEAST the program you are watching?

The Discovery Bar is annoying enough- robbing me of valuable space for a bunch of nonsense I do not want and its real purpose is to try and hide/blend in the ads. But inserting things in the menus and video is unacceptable, especially if they are going to keep pushing the limits as to how big it becomes.

Are you listening to us, TiVo?


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## moyekj

cosmicvoid said:


> From which screens is this usable?
> 
> Are there other Easter Egg commands? How do I find out about them?


 Normal SPS backdoors can be entered while playing back an existing recording, but this one is special requiring either a Pause Ad or Showcase video to enable it. Easiest way to enter SPSPS backdoor without having to jump through hoops is using kmttg Remote where you will also find a list of all available SPS backdoors.


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## aaronwt

PHeadland said:


> Leaving aside how I feel about paying around $1,000 for a TiVo plus lifetime service in order to be pestered by advertising (hint - not positive)...
> 
> We are seeing a "Cryptonite free trial" ad op up above the pause bar, Pressing "down" gets rid of it OK, but the damn' thing comes back every single time we pause, which is getting really, really old, because we generally pause so we can look at the picture, and the advert covers up a big chunk of it. I did the SPS-Pause trick (which I did not want to do, because I find the bar useful) but even then the ad flashes up annoyingly for about half a second when I pause.
> 
> I don't recall our old TiVo HD behaving like this (I vaguely recollect that once you dismissed an ad it was gone for good) - is this something new, or do I just remember wrong?
> 
> More to the point, is there some way to retain the bar but stop the excessively frequent pop-up ad (I don't mind seeing it once in a while, it's the excessive repetition/flashing that is infuriating).
> 
> As to the value of the advertising; right now I would happily punch someone from Cryptonite in the face, because it is so intrusive and annoying. The chances of me every wanting to buy something from them are zero.


I've been seeing ads for Carbonite lately. Is that what you mean? I had been looking at it recently anyway. The ad got me two free months of service so I'm glad it popped up. It certainly did not prevent me from doing anything with my TiVos. I thought it was very unobtrusive.


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## innocentfreak

I usually don't mind them but the pause ad for Carbonite is definitely distracting. First the box is rather large. Second it pops up repeatedly. I have always used pause and then play for resume to avoid the jump back feature. As a result I can see it many times in an episode. I have probably seen the same popup close to 30 times today while I was skipping through shows. 

It would be better if it only popped up say every 10 minutes, because at this point it doesn't make me want to do business with Carbonite. It is similar to the pop up ads they are dealing with on one of the other sites I frequent. It turns me off to the company advertising because they are so obtrusive.


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## Devx

So several have posted about the Carbonite ad reappearing during the same show. When I dismiss the ad it goes away and it doesn't reappear again during the same show. Is there a time delay before it appears again or is it consistently showing up and I missed something? I don't use SPSPS.

I do agree however it's much larger than I remember on the Premiere HDUI(which I've switched to SDUI).

Another benefit of early adoption on the newest Tivo platform is realizing how "clean" the interface can be. Remember a few weeks ago when there were almost no ads, and then a few more weeks back where there were even fewer ads?


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## a80099

Agreed... adding more and more adds/pops ups is not what I pay extra for in a service. Tivo is not exactly a cheap solution to begin with, but now I feel like its a free service where I have to put up with pop ups and more adds (exactly opposite of one of the reason I use Tivo.. SKIP THE ADDS). Ugh.. Nothing like treating paying customers like free moochers.

I had this gripe from Comcast too and pop ups on their guide. Be one thing if it stopped/could be stopped or wasn't so intrusive. But it does not. Just keeps happening and its the same add (Carbonite). I don't want it. never will. Let me make go away. It is annoying. I get the add people paid you for this.. BUT I paid you too to get this service.

SHADY TIVO, SHADY.

* Sad really, my first post here with my new Roamio service (bought early Sep) and its about this. I really like many things about it.. Love even... But the adds are... well.. frustrating.



PHeadland said:


> Leaving aside how I feel about paying around $1,000 for a TiVo plus lifetime service in order to be pestered by advertising (hint - not positive)...
> 
> We are seeing a "Cryptonite free trial" ad op up above the pause bar, Pressing "down" gets rid of it OK, but the damn' thing comes back every single time we pause, which is getting really, really old, because we generally pause so we can look at the picture, and the advert covers up a big chunk of it. I did the SPS-Pause trick (which I did not want to do, because I find the bar useful) but even then the ad flashes up annoyingly for about half a second when I pause.
> 
> I don't recall our old TiVo HD behaving like this (I vaguely recollect that once you dismissed an ad it was gone for good) - is this something new, or do I just remember wrong?
> 
> More to the point, is there some way to retain the bar but stop the excessively frequent pop-up ad (I don't mind seeing it once in a while, it's the excessive repetition/flashing that is infuriating).
> 
> As to the value of the advertising; right now I would happily punch someone from Cryptonite in the face, because it is so intrusive and annoying. The chances of me every wanting to buy something from them are zero.


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## HenryFarpolo

A giant step in the wrong direction. Like fingernails on a blackboard every time the Carbonite appears.


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## aaronwt

I see no issues. Like other services they sell ads to bring in money since what they charge people does not cover everything. People already complain about how TiVo costs too much. If they charged enough to break even it would cost even more. So I have no problems with the ads. If they were obtrusive or stopped me from using my TiVos I would have a problem with it, but so far the pop up ads have not done anything to hinder my use of my TiVos. And the ads have saved me money.


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## NJguy

aaronwt said:


> I see no issues. Like other services they sell ads to bring in money since what they charge people does not cover everything. People already complain about how TiVo costs too much. If they charged enough to break even it would cost even more. So I have no problems with the ads. If they were obtrusive or stopped me from using my TiVos I would have a problem with it, but so far the pop up ads have not done anything to hinder my use of my TiVos. And the ads have saved me money.


I understand where you are coming from but disagree. The advertising dollars they are making from Carbonite are not going to be enough to, lets say, keep the monthly cost from being a $1 more or a lifetime subscription from being $30 more or them charging $30 more per box, etc, etc. Of course, I do not know what they are getting for the Ads but knowing the business I'm fairly certain it would not make a dent.

Now I don't mind seeing an ad when I go to Tivo Central. There's a bunch of blank space to the right under the "My Shows" tab and even when you're in "My Shows" you can probably put an add or two up top (where they put Carbonite ad now) and to the right under the shows you have recorded.

I think it's wrong to put it on a pause screen and is not in good taste for all the reasons listed in other posts. I don't pay a premium for an iPad for ads. If I want ads I'll get a Kindle....and if I don't want ads on that I'll pay the $30 extra to eliminate them. Tivo is a premium device and should not include ads IMO.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Tivo has never reported ad revenue because it's never materially added to their bottom line. They're selling our annoyed eyeballs for a pittance.

I don't mind the Discover bar ads. I tolerate the ads at the bottom of Tivo Central. But the re-occurring oversized pause ad that doesn't stay gone is ridiculous.

Tivo won't do anything based on our word alone, but maybe we should start telling Carbonite (and future advertisers) that the pause ad is too obtrusive and it's hurting their brand.


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## a80099

I agree.. dont mind "some".. such as the one on Tivo central.. Why is it starred? I really dislike the pop up the is slow to pop up and changes the screen while I am trying to navigate it and read.

If I pause, NO.. Really.. I am not pausing to get the add that I have seen over and over again and ignored cause in the middle of my show is when I wanna buy a computer service.

The adds are to many places, to intrusive and since its seems to be the SAME one over and over.. useless...

"annoyed eyeballs" PERFECT.



BigJimOutlaw said:


> Tivo has never reported ad revenue because it's never materially added to their bottom line. They're selling our annoyed eyeballs for a pittance.
> 
> I don't mind the Discover bar ads. I tolerate the ads at the bottom of Tivo Central. But the re-occurring oversized pause ad that doesn't stay gone is ridiculous.
> 
> Tivo won't do anything based on our word alone, but maybe we should start telling Carbonite (and future advertisers) that the pause ad is too obtrusive and it's hurting their brand.


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## CrispyCritter

I don't like the ads either, and I agree that they are not adding much money to TiVo's bottom line.

But we're no longer the target audience for the ads. The target audience is the cable company execs looking to see how adopting TiVo for their cable company can add to their bottom line. We stand-aloners have proven that we're not willing to pay enough to keep TiVo a viable company. I imagine cable companies are quite interested in opportunities to push targeted advertising for their Pay-Per-View and other specials, for instance.


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## moyekj

CrispyCritter said:


> But we're no longer the target audience for the ads.


 If that's the case then don't target standalone units with the ads then, plain and simple.

If it gets much more intrusive than it already is then a "premium" service fee to opt out of ads may be the next step...


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## CrispyCritter

moyekj said:


> If that's the case then don't target standalone units with the ads then, plain and simple.


We're the demo market, for both capabilities and usage statistics, IMO. If we don't like it, we should find some other way for TiVo to get more money from us - TiVo has not been able to come up with one for the past 14 years.


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## HenryFarpolo

moyekj said:


> If that's the case then don't target standalone units with the ads then, plain and simple.
> 
> If it gets much more intrusive than it already is then a "premium" service fee to opt out of ads may be the next step...


We paid a "premium" service fee when we purchased our TIVO's.

I am not complaining about the price. TIVO is a good product. The addition of ads as invasive as these are is a poor decision.


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## GameJerk

Ads on top of a monthly fee irks me. It's the same reason Hulu Plus gets on my nerves sometimes, although those ads aren't too intrusive.


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## gigaguy

I haven't noticed this on my Premiere. I do see smallish ads across the bottom of the control screen which I don't like since this is a PAID service. TiVo should at least state they put ads on your screen,when they sell you their 'service' package. Other companies offer the option of free or ad supported. TiVo only offers one option, not free, with ads.

My 2 month trial with a cheap Premiere is showing me things I like and don't like about Tivo. Before I spend any real $ with TiVo I'm definitely going to see if Apple announces any rumored video/TV news on Tuesday. Apple may be pricey, but it will be done right, with timely fixes and updates, smart tech, and excellent OS and support.


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## ptr727

I agree, they are annoying.

I pay tivo for equipment and for service, do not advertise on my box.

If you want to advertise, then give me service for free, or give me hardware for free, that would be fair, right?

P.


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## SullyND

I want Comcast to give me my Cable for free! Why should I pay when they're constantly hitting me with ads.


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## hamlet00

The ads are there because enough suckers tolerate them, just like government intrusion.


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## Jeremy5

Count me as also very disappointed with the ads. I chose TiVo for a premium experience over a cable/satellite DVR. Seeing the same ad again and again is not making me very happy with this decision. I saw it once in TiVo central. Do I really need to see it again when I pause a program? Again in the discovery bar? And the worst one, once again after I finished watching a show! I'm getting asked whether I want to keep the recording, delete the recording, or try Cryptonite?!


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## DVRMike

One of my main reasons for getting a tivo is the interface. The ads take away from that interface. The ad in the discovery bar was distracting enough. The gold stars in tivo central and my shows are annoying. But I really hate the pause ad and the delayed ad on the delete dialog. Are there any other new types of ads I will be introduced to?

I don't know what tivo gets for the ads but it has to hurt their word of mouth sales. I wouldn't recommend the tivo to anyone without first warning them about the ads.

Tivo should allow us to turn the ads off for free with an option in the settings. It's got to be better to lose some ad dollars than to lose potential customers.


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## yokito

We will very likely walk if this gets any worse and we can't pay my way out of this. 

Our home has been ad-free since 2003 when we started recording everything we intend to watch. TiVo better not go down that route.


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## Devx

yokito said:


> We will very likely walk if this gets any worse and we can't pay my way out of this.
> 
> Our home has been ad-free since 2003 when we started recording everything we intend to watch. TiVo better not go down that route.


Tivo did this is the past, although not quite this large, and there was no option to pay or otherwise opt-out.

Tivo will continue to have these ads as long as they work. Companies are trying it as marketing and it must be bringing them some business if they continue to pay Tivo for the privilege. Also, since it is apparently working to at least some degree, Tivo has little reason to discontinue the practice.


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## DCIFRTHS

NJguy said:


> I understand where you are coming from but disagree. The advertising dollars they are making from Carbonite are not going to be enough to, lets say, keep the monthly cost from being a $1 more or a lifetime subscription from being $30 more or them charging $30 more per box, etc, etc. Of course, I do not know what they are getting for the Ads but knowing the business I'm fairly certain it would not make a dent.


I agree with your comments.



NJguy said:


> I don't mind seeing an ad when I go to Tivo Central. There's a bunch of blank space to the right under the "My Shows" tab and even when you're in "My Shows" you can probably put an add or two up top (where they put Carbonite ad now) and to the right under the shows you have recorded.


I am in the NO ADS camp. I don't want to see even one ad on my TiVo.



NJguy said:


> I think it's wrong to put it on a pause screen and is not in good taste for all the reasons listed in other posts. I don't pay a premium for an iPad for ads. If I want ads I'll get a Kindle....and if I don't want ads on that I'll pay the $30 extra to eliminate them. Tivo is a premium device and should not include ads IMO.


They're tacky, and really blemish an otherwise awesome UI... Okay, the UI is almost awesome - it will be awesome when all the menus are in HD.


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## bbrown9

Add me to the list of people who are annoyed by the ads. I pay a lot of money for both the hardware and the service, I shouldn't have to be subjected to the ads.


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## TrooperOrange

Has anyone tried or considered a proxy that blocks ads? No clue where the tivo ads are served from, but if it is a different location than their guide services etc... it would be trivial to block them.


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## aaronwt

TrooperOrange said:


> Has anyone tried or considered a proxy that blocks ads? No clue where the tivo ads are served from, but if it is a different location than their guide services etc... it would be trivial to block them.


Wouldn't it just download the info with it's daily checkin? Once it downloads the ad it seems to show the same one for a while.

Again I have no problem with the ads. if they were obtrusive or prevented me from using my TiVos like I normally do then I would be strongly against it. But in it's current form it has no effect on me watching my recorded content.


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## moyekj

The ads are part of recordings done late at night. If you can figure out what the "ad" channels are and remove them from your Receive list that may effectively block them. I think in the past they have been PBS type channels. Since the Mini has no recordings storage it doesn't suffer from Pause Ad and Gold Star intrusions. So if someone really despises the ads, the Mini is a good way to avoid most of them right now (you still get the Discovery Bar).


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## DCIFRTHS

moyekj said:


> The ads are part of recordings done late at night. If you can figure out what the "ad" channels are and remove them from your Receive list that may effectively block them. I think in the past they have been PBS type channels. Since the Mini has no recordings storage it doesn't suffer from Pause Ad and Gold Star intrusions. So if someone really despises the ads, the Mini is a good way to avoid most of them right now (you still get the Discovery Bar).


That's good info. Makes the mini that much more attractive. Thanks!


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## HarperVision

It's all reminds me of back in the day when you used to "pay" for the privilege of going to see a movie and you actually just got the entertainment you "paid" for, some beginning cartoons and then the feature film. Now it's just a friggin giant tv screen full of Mountain Dew hawking after I paid $16 to get in and $23 for popcorn and a soda!

I also remember when you actually "paid" for your "premium" cable service, the non-broadcast cable channels that you were "paying for" were ad free as well, since it was based on a "subscription model", like TiVo.


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## aaronwt

Yes the Premium channels like HBO and Cinemax are littered with ads for all the other content they show.

Movie theaters though have always seemed to advertise future movies. Now they just have local advertising spots too.


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## HarperVision

aaronwt said:


> Yes the Premium channels like HBO and Cinemax are littered with ads for all the other content they show.
> 
> Movie theaters though have always seemed to advertise future movies. Now they just have local advertising spots too.


I'm talking even the "cable only" channels, that weren't broadcast OTA, not just premiums like hbo.

I don't know about you, but my theater and every theater I've been to in the past 10 years+ shows way more than just local ads and future movies!


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## jmpage2

HarperVision said:


> It's all reminds me of back in the day when you used to "pay" for the privilege of going to see a movie and you actually just got the entertainment you "paid" for, some beginning cartoons and then the feature film. Now it's just a friggin giant tv screen full of Mountain Dew hawking after I paid $16 to get in and $23 for popcorn and a soda!
> 
> I also remember when you actually "paid" for your "premium" cable service, the non-broadcast cable channels that you were "paying for" were ad free as well, since it was based on a "subscription model", like TiVo.


You clearly need an Alamo Drafthouse where you live. They do movies the way God intended. Fun pre-show stuff like out-takes and embarrassing clips from the actors past or cartoons followed by 2-3 previews and then the show.

Oh, and they serve real food, have a full bar and have a no talking/texting/cell policy.

Alamo is awesome.

On topic, TiVo is really pushing things with these ads, and I will update my Amazon review accordingly if they are still there over the coming weeks.


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## LoadStar

Here's a splash of reality. Even with ads -- which, by the way, are nothing new to TiVo -- the company is barely squeaking by. Many quarters they show a loss. Clearly, the subscription fees aren't enough to keep the company in the black. If it means TiVo sticks around longer, I reluctantly say "bring on the ads."


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## jmpage2

LoadStar said:


> Here's a splash of reality. Even with ads -- which, by the way, are nothing new to TiVo -- the company is barely squeaking by. Many quarters they show a loss. Clearly, the subscription fees aren't enough to keep the company in the black. If it means TiVo sticks around longer, I reluctantly say "bring on the ads."


What line does TiVo have to cross with you before you call them out on things like this?

It's not the fault of those who paid hard earned money in good faith for the service TiVo was offering at the time they made their purchases what TiVos financial situation is.... and frankly I'm tired of people excusing it.

The box I purchased and paid lifetime for did not have pop up ads.... should we excuse Microsoft if they determine that to maintain profitability they should do pop-up ads on the next version of Windows 8 (after customers have already purchased)?

It's inexcusable. I would MUCH rather have them not modify the service I paid for.... or, offer an opt out. Worst case, if things are so tough for poor TiVo then they should be charging more instead of doing underhanded things like this.


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## tonestert

These stupid ads just makes me never want to buy anything from carbonite whatever it is.


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## LoadStar

jmpage2 said:


> What line does TiVo have to cross with you before you call them out on things like this?


Frankly: when the ads interfere or interrupt my ability to use the device for what it was intended for. An example: if I had to click through or acknowledge an ad before reaching a portion of the TiVo UI or before viewing a program.

So far, the ads TiVo has run have not interfered or interrupted my ability to use the device.


> The box I purchased and paid lifetime for did not have pop up ads....


Faulty statement. TiVo has been running ads of varying types for many years. I'm not sure when you bought your Roamio, but TiVo has certainly been running ads for the entire lifespan of the device.


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## LoadStar

For what it's worth: a search of threads in the Coffee House with "ads" in the subject line shows that TiVo has been running ads since at least 2006. (At least, that's the earliest reference in the Coffee House. There may be earlier references in the archives.)

If you weren't aware that TiVo ran ads, well... that doesn't change the fact that they do.


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## jmpage2

LoadStar said:


> For what it's worth: a search of threads in the Coffee House with "ads" in the subject line shows that TiVo has been running ads since at least 2006. (At least, that's the earliest reference in the Coffee House. There may be earlier references in the archives.)
> 
> If you weren't aware that TiVo ran ads, well... that doesn't change the fact that they do.


You are making the incorrect assumption that all ads are equally obnoxious. Pop-up ads are generally considered to be one of the more intrusive and annoying forms of advertising.

You are also assuming that TiVo is doing this out of financial necessity, when it might be nothing more than a marketing move to see what the uproar will be about these types of ads. If enough people make a stink, they very well might pull them, they've made advertising changes in the past based on customer feedback.

Or, we could be like you and say "bring on the pop up ads". :down:


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## LoadStar

jmpage2 said:


> You are making the incorrect assumption that all ads are equally obnoxious. Pop-up ads are generally considered to be one of the more intrusive and annoying forms of advertising.


... which they've been running since at least 2007, based on the same search referenced above.


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## Jeremy5

At the very least, we need to be able to open the ad, and say "No thanks!" and not have it bother us again. Seeing the same ad repeatedly is IMO obnoxious and poorly done. Especially the Keep or Delete ad that seems to generate after the initial prompt is displayed, and to me looks ugly and out of place.


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## Dan203

I was kinda hoping they'd learned their lesson in these pause ads. They use to be in the SDUI but I'd never seen them in the HDUI until now. Worse yet is they are actually bigger in the HDUI then they were in the SDUI. :down:

I don't mind the ads in the discovery bar or even the star at the bottom of the main menu, but the pause ads and the ones they put at the bottom of folders screw up the basic functionality of the DVR and I really wish they would have left those gone.


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## Grakthis

jmpage2 said:


> What line does TiVo have to cross with you before you call them out on things like this?
> 
> It's not the fault of those who paid hard earned money in good faith for the service TiVo was offering at the time they made their purchases what TiVos financial situation is.... and frankly I'm tired of people excusing it.
> 
> The box I purchased and paid lifetime for did not have pop up ads.... should we excuse Microsoft if they determine that to maintain profitability they should do pop-up ads on the next version of Windows 8 (after customers have already purchased)?
> 
> It's inexcusable. I would MUCH rather have them not modify the service I paid for.... or, offer an opt out. Worst case, if things are so tough for poor TiVo then they should be charging more instead of doing underhanded things like this.


If you don't care about the companies you do business with staying in business, then you seriously need to rethink your personal ethics, because they are broken.

Don't do business with a company if you don't want them around. If I give TiVo my money, I want them to be profitable, so I can later give them more of my money for more things that are also profitable. The exchange should benefit both of us.

It sounds like you only want the exchange to benefit you. Which is an attitude I used to hear from my 2 year old until she grew out of it. Maybe try doing that.


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## Jeremy5

Grakthis said:


> If you don't care about the companies you do business with staying in business, then you seriously need to rethink your personal ethics, because they are broken.
> 
> Don't do business with a company if you don't want them around. If I give TiVo my money, I want them to be profitable, so I can later give them more of my money for more things that are also profitable. The exchange should benefit both of us.
> 
> It sounds like you only want the exchange to benefit you. Which is an attitude I used to hear from my 2 year old until she grew out of it. Maybe try doing that.


Oh my. This is not an issue of whether anyone wants Tivo to stay in business. I think we all do, and I doubt that any of us here have insight into their revenue from these ads or even whether the Roamio product is profitable with or without them.

I would happily pay more for an ad-free option (Amazon has done this well with the Kindle). I don't want to see the same ad repeatedly, and I want a choice other than switching to a service other than Tivo.


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## dianebrat

To those new folks in the thread saying "but if I knew it had ads" or "we shouldn't have to pay for it an get ads" This comes up every time the ad platform gets tweaked, and every time folks say "it's the last straw, I'm leaving.

But like Loadstar, I have yet to see any of the ads require me to do or press anything different to get past them, that's the line they so far have not crossed. As long as they don't change my activities, I'm ok with them. There's more than a bit of discussion that the Roamio may be the last retail Tivo, I can only hope that doesn't happen.

But I also agree with the others that the retail market is their test market for features they want to shop around to the MSOs they have agreements with, they can show clear data points and say "we can deliver this type of eyeball"


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## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> I was kinda hoping they'd learned their lesson in these pause ads. They use to be in the SDUI but I'd never seen them in the HDUI until now. Worse yet is they are actually bigger in the HDUI then they were in the SDUI. :down:
> 
> I don't mind the ads in the discovery bar or even the star at the bottom of the main menu, but the pause ads and the ones they put at the bottom of folders screw up the basic functionality of the DVR and I really wish they would have left those gone.


How does it screw up the basic functionality? I'm still able to pause a show, go do something else, and when I come back unpause it. The ad being there does nothing to hinder this. And if for some reason I need to see something on the screen, I just press down on the D-pad.

If the ads hindered my use in any way, I would definitely be pissed and up in arms about it. But the advertisements on the TiVos have never hindered my use. And in more than one instance saved me money or introduced me to something that I otherwise would have never watched.


----------



## Dan203

The star ad at the bottom of a group seems to take a second to fill in, which interferes with navigation. i.e. if you press skip to end, then up a few times to get to the last show on a list, then the ad fills in and it loses where you were and you have to press up again. Sometimes if you're really fast it can result in you accidentally selecting the ad which then takes you to another screen you have to back out of.

The pause ad is huge and covers the whole screen. If I pause to see something I have to press another button to get rid of it.


----------



## kbmb

Sadly, Tivo is an ad supported company. They clearly aren't going to get rid of ads anytime soon. In fact I think their biggest problem is nobody wants to do ads with them. I mean c'mon, why do I have to look at a Carbonite ad for weeks!! If the ad platform was successful we'd see a variety of ads rotating....not just a few. 

-Kevin


----------



## mrizzo80

I dislike the ads. I guess I'm in the minority because I don't really care about the Pause ads (I rarely look at the screen after I hit pause). I hate the TiVo Central star ads and the star ads embedded in show folders. It feels like you can't escape them since they show up on so many primary screens while navigating the UI. Combined with the Discovery Bar ad we now often see 2 ads on the same screen.

Side note 1: someone mentioned TiVo is not really making enough money to get by. Those days appear to be over. Tom Rogers says the company is now (and will continue to be) cash flow positive going forward. No more quarterly losses.

Side note 2: I find it funny multiple people referred to the current ad as "Cryptonite". In addition to be annoying, these ads must not be very effective.


----------



## Dan203

mrizzo80 said:


> Side note 2: I find it funny multiple people referred to the current ad as "Cryptonite". In addition to be annoying, these ads must not be very effective.


I think that was just a typo by the OP. The ad was for a service called Carbonite, which is an online backup service.


----------



## crxssi

jmpage2 said:


> What line does TiVo have to cross with you before you call them out on things like this?.


Exactly.

It is a slippery slope... where is the line?

I have been able to tolerate the 1 line pause crap and star crap and even the Discovery Bar crap. But anything more/larger/more invasive is really starting to push my limit. Yes, there will be those who can tolerate more, or can't even tolerate what happens now. But I think most would agree that line is really starting to form. It even seems somewhat immoral that TiVo makes its living on a box where one of its main functions is DESIGNED to avoid advertising and then just insert their own.

I will say again that it is just poor design to show a pause ad over and over and over again. I got the message the first time, and interfering with my ability to see what is on the screen when I pause EVERY TIME is unacceptable... and easily fixed with a patch that stops it after it has been seen or suppresses it for that session or at least that show.

As for money- I paid a *LOT* of money for their TOP OF THE LINE model (Roamio Pro) and with lifetime service and a Slide. They lost no money on me at all on this stuff. They have to push out updates anyway to fix what is still broken after years and attract new customers. And the daily connection to get some listings is a tiny expense per unit. If they wanted more money, they should have put out a better unit with the Premiere that is more like this Roamio... they could have had many more sales.

Any additional types or severity of ads borders on bait-and-switch or breech of implied contract by changing what it is I purchased. For many of us, this is not a lease and it is not a monthly service.


----------



## Dan203

The main point is... The ads are annoying! Does TiVo really want to annoy paying customers just to make a few more bucks selling ads? If just a few customers leave or don't buy because of the ads is it still worth it?


----------



## Devx

These same ads have been around for a while now. Is it the size of the pop-up? If it were reduced in size to the SDUI popup would everyone find it as intrusive?


----------



## crxssi

Devx said:


> These same ads have been around for a while now. Is it the size of the pop-up?


Yes, that is the trigger that is causing people to be upset (and rightfully so). And the idea that if TiVo can make the ads larger it indicates it could also lead to more ads, more frequently, in more places, and with additional annoyances.


----------



## ptr727

I opened a case with support to complain about the intrusive ad.
They said they can opt me out of most ads, but not all.
Waiting to receive confirmation if opting out applies to this type of ad.


----------



## CrispyCritter

Dan203 said:


> The main point is... The ads are annoying! Does TiVo really want to annoy paying customers just to make a few more bucks selling ads? If just a few customers leave or don't buy because of the ads is it still worth it?


I think the answer is undeniably "yes", even independent of whether or not it convinces the cable companies to use TiVo.

TiVo is spending, and has spent, many millions of dollars developing targeted advertising and audience profiling and measurement. The goal from the beginning (15 years ago) was for that to contribute about a third of revenue eventually. Unfortunately, TiVo never got the necessary number of machines out there for this to ever get off the ground. Now, with the adoption of TiVo by the smaller cable companies, they're getting the numbers to put their plans into action. Both they and the cable companies are interested in this.

So even if they lose a bit in the stand-alone market with these ads, they are advancing their long-term plans. They've spent a lot more money than that on targeted advertising, so far unproductively.


----------



## steve614

What are these pause ads that everyone's griping about?  


I for one am glad TiVo gave us a backdoor code that dismisses the pause ad. They certainly didn't have to do that, and they could disable it at any time.

IOW, count your blessings?


----------



## davezatz

dianebrat said:


> To those new folks in the thread saying "but if I knew it had ads" or "we shouldn't have to pay for it an get ads" This comes up every time the ad platform gets tweaked, and every time folks say "it's the last straw, I'm leaving.


Perhaps one of the many reasons TiVo dropped below 1 million retail subscribers for the first time since 2004. Having said that, Roamio is way better than Premiere and they should get a nice subscriber bounce/resurgence. But the updated pause menu ads are disgusting.


----------



## jrtroo

Is there a picture of these new and terrible ads around? On my older boxes, I never even recognized they were there except when someone new got a box and complained. So, how are they so much worse on a Roamio?


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Dan203 said:


> ... The pause ad is huge and covers the whole screen. If I pause to see something I have to press another button to get rid of it.


Correct. It's annoying.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

ptr727 said:


> I opened a case with support to complain about the intrusive ad.
> They said they can opt me out of most ads, but not all.
> Waiting to receive confirmation if opting out applies to this type of ad.


Please post back - I'm curious to know if it works.


----------



## jmpage2

steve614 said:


> What are these pause ads that everyone's griping about?
> 
> I for one am glad TiVo gave us a backdoor code that dismisses the pause ad. They certainly didn't have to do that, and they could disable it at any time.
> 
> IOW, count your blessings?


What code are you talking about that applies to the discussion at hand?


----------



## moyekj

jmpage2 said:


> What code are you talking about that applies to the discussion at hand?


 SPSPS (NOTE: Trickier to enable compared to all other SPS codes).


----------



## kbmb

Ok so now I am seeing where these ads are affecting the user experience:

I have a folder with 2 shows in it. I go into the folder and below the 2 shows you see a line for the Carbonite ad. Now, the ad takes a second to load.

Where I can see a usability issue is:

I went into the bottom show in the list to view the detail screen. I wanted to click back and up to go back to the list and up to the top show in the list. I can do this, but right after I click up (to highlight the top show), the page refreshes to display the ad and now my highlighted show is the bottom one again.

No, it's not earth shattering......but still, I want the interface to not get in my way with ads.

-Kevin


----------



## gcondrey

Add me to the list. The ads wouldn't be so bad if you could dismiss them and they wouldn't come back for 24 hours or so. It's the every time I pause thing that gets pretty annoying.


----------



## aaronwt

kbmb said:


> Ok so now I am seeing where these ads are affecting the user experience:
> 
> I have a folder with 2 shows in it. I go into the folder and below the 2 shows you see a line for the Carbonite ad. Now, the ad takes a second to load.
> 
> Where I can see a usability issue is:
> 
> I went into the bottom show in the list to view the detail screen. I wanted to click back and up to go back to the list and up to the top show in the list. I can do this, but right after I click up (to highlight the top show), the page refreshes to display the ad and now my highlighted show is the bottom one again.
> 
> No, it's not earth shattering......but still, I want the interface to not get in my way with ads.
> 
> -Kevin


I haven't seen a delay in the ad showing up. When the list of shows populates, the ad was there at the bottom right away. At least this was the case last night. I looked just now and I don't see the ad listed in any of the folders I looked at any more.


----------



## kbmb

aaronwt said:


> I haven't seen a delay in the ad showing up. When the list of shows populates, the ad was there at the bottom right away. At least this was the case last night. I looked just now and I don't see the ad listed in any of the folders I looked at any more.


I tried multiple times after it first occurred. By going into the details and back out. I'd say at least 7 out of 10 times the ad line took a second to show up. This is similar to the delete/keep box at the end of a recording.....the ad shows up a split second after the box does.

Doesn't really matter if it always happens or only happens once....get the damn ads away from the core functionality of the box.

Can't wait for the day when Tivo starts doing:

Show name
Show name
ad
Show name
ad
Show name

-Kevin


----------



## Grakthis

Jeremy5 said:


> Oh my. This is not an issue of whether anyone wants Tivo to stay in business. I think we all do, and I doubt that any of us here have insight into their revenue from these ads or even whether the Roamio product is profitable with or without them.
> 
> I would happily pay more for an ad-free option (Amazon has done this well with the Kindle). I don't want to see the same ad repeatedly, and I want a choice other than switching to a service other than Tivo.


Well, it seems we have someone who literally said they didn't care about TiVo's profitability, they just wanted their 2 lbs of flesh that they believe they paid for. That's what I was responding to. That's unacceptable.

I don't want ads on my TV either. I don't want to watch commercials. But if I am shown that I can either have X with commercials, or not have X, I am going to take X with commercials. How much I paid for X initially is irrelevant.

For example, my kindle fire has ads on it. I paid like $120 dollars for the thing... but it has ads. I accepted that because it was either that, or pay more money to rid of the ads.

TiVo is not giving you a "pay more money to opt out" option. But presumably, there could be one, in theory, if not for the engineering time they would have to put in to that.

If TiVo were making a lot of profit, I think we'd have a valid complaint about them squeezing out every dime of ad revenues they could. But they aren't. So we don't. We can either deal with it, and it's the cost of TiVo ownership for TiVo to stay in business, or walk away. Those are your choices.


----------



## Grakthis

Dan203 said:


> The pause ad is huge and covers the whole screen. If I pause to see something I have to press another button to get rid of it.


I already have to do this, to get rid of the pause bar. It's always in the way.

Pause + clear. That's the routine. Every time.


----------



## Grakthis

Dan203 said:


> The main point is... The ads are annoying! Does TiVo really want to annoy paying customers just to make a few more bucks selling ads? If just a few customers leave or don't buy because of the ads is it still worth it?


Ah, now THAT'S a good question.

I don't find them that annoying, but how many people have to find them annoying before it stops being worth it?

Companies have been asking this questions for a really long time.

i think Amazon's "with offers!" model, for example, gives the "opt out" just so you have it. I don't know anyone who has ever taken it. Just the fact that it EXISTS makes people go "ok, so, I don't HAVE to look at the ads... but I will, because money." But when you don't offer that, it makes people go "JUUUUUUSSSSSTICEEEEEEE! FREEEDOMOMMMMMMMM!!!! I AM SO MADDDDDDD!!!!!!"

We just want options to make suboptimal choices, even if we don't make them!


----------



## jmpage2

Grakthis said:


> Ah, now THAT'S a good question.
> 
> I don't find them that annoying, but how many people have to find them annoying before it stops being worth it?
> 
> Companies have been asking this questions for a really long time.
> 
> i think Amazon's "with offers!" model, for example, gives the "opt out" just so you have it. I don't know anyone who has ever taken it. Just the fact that it EXISTS makes people go "ok, so, I don't HAVE to look at the ads... but I will, because money." But when you don't offer that, it makes people go "JUUUUUUSSSSSTICEEEEEEE! FREEEDOMOMMMMMMMM!!!! I AM SO MADDDDDDD!!!!!!"
> 
> We just want options to make suboptimal choices, even if we don't make them!


The difference in getting the non-ads version of the Kindle is $15-$20. You were actually too cheap to pay that pittance to avoid annoying ads but you'll pay hundreds for a TiVo? Wow.

The comparison with TiVo would be that someone bought a Kindle/iPad, which maybe had web advertising that the person expected, and then they added pop-up ads when you are running apps, etc.

Many many people would find this annoying and rightfully so.

TiVo should offer an option to opt-out for those of us that are annoyed by the new ads, because it did not exist when we bought the product.

I might be the person you were referring to who was 'not concerned' about TiVo profitability. It is the companies responsibility to make products that are marketable to large numbers of customers and turn a profit. It's NOT up to the consumer to wring their hands about whether a price-cut, change in marketing, etc, is going to result in their beloved company going kaput... that is for TiVo upper management and board of directors to worry about.


----------



## Jeremy5

Anyone who wanted a picture of the Carbonite ads...


----------



## crxssi

Jeremy5 said:


> Anyone who wanted a picture of the Carbonite ads...[photos]


And those of you not on the platform long- TiVo has *NEVER* had pause ads with a black background (not that I ever recall) or anywhere near that large. And with a ONE LINE text ad plus the bar, they are managing to obscure 25% of the vertical screen across 66% of the horizontal screen.

The delete ad doesn't matter much, since you very rarely need to see what is behind it, and it only happens once per program.

*STOP THIS CRAP, TiVo Inc....*


----------



## moyekj

aaronwt said:


> I haven't seen a delay in the ad showing up. When the list of shows populates, the ad was there at the bottom right away. At least this was the case last night. I looked just now and I don't see the ad listed in any of the folders I looked at any more.


 There's at least 1-2 second delay added when you get to end of a show and have to wait extra for the ad to populate before you get the keep or delete menu to appear and be functional. Initially there's no ad, then the menu text gets pushed up to make room for the ad. I noticed and was irritated by the delay immediately especially since Roamio is otherwise usually so much more responsive.
The pause ads themselves I can deal with since I always enable SPSPS 1st thing following a reboot, but even those cause a slight delay in the pausing and unpausing.


----------



## aaronwt

crxssi said:


> And those of you not on the platform long- TiVo has *NEVER* had pause ads with a black background (not that I ever recall) or anywhere near that large. And with a ONE LINE text ad plus the bar, they are managing to obscure 25% of the vertical screen across 66% of the horizontal screen.
> 
> The delete ad doesn't matter much, since you very rarely need to see what is behind it, and it only happens once per program.
> 
> *STOP THIS CRAP, TiVo Inc....*


I haven't seen any ads with a black background. They have all been dark Blue. Unless I'm just mis-remembering. When I saw the pic someone posted my first thought was that something was wrong with it because I thought the background matched everything else with the Roamio which was dark Blue.


----------



## davezatz

aaronwt said:


> I haven't seen any ads with a black background. They have all been dark Blue.


All my Roamio pause menu ads have been Carbonite on the larger black background... different than Premiere. Wonder how long Mini will remain immune. :/


----------



## jrtroo

Jeremy5 said:


> Anyone who wanted a picture of the Carbonite ads...


Thanks. The ones on the premiere and older boxes were like billboards- you knew it was there but never really saw it. This actually is different, upon first review it seems much harder to ignore, at least initially.

Is this what is intended? Or is the larger box with all of that empty space a bug to be squashed?


----------



## Grakthis

jmpage2 said:


> The difference in getting the non-ads version of the Kindle is $15-$20. You were actually too cheap to pay that pittance to avoid annoying ads but you'll pay hundreds for a TiVo? Wow.


It's not a matter of cheap. I would be paying 15-20 for NOTHING. So, no, I am not willing to burn $20 in a fire for no reason.



> The comparison with TiVo would be that someone bought a Kindle/iPad, which maybe had web advertising that the person expected, and then they added pop-up ads when you are running apps, etc.


No, pop-up ads require you to remove them. the TiVo ads do not. The Amazon ads show up on the unlock screen. Equivalent to the pause screen on the TiVo.



> Many many people would find this annoying and rightfully so.
> 
> TiVo should offer an option to opt-out for those of us that are annoyed by the new ads, because it did not exist when we bought the product.


"existed when we bought the product" is irrelevant to products that are updated. Out of the home streaming didn't exist when some people bought their Roamios. Would TiVo be justified in charging for that feature now, or would you be enraged about that?

What we are justified in being 'annoyed' about is not relevant to the conversation. I am annoyed by TV ads.



> I might be the person you were referring to who was 'not concerned' about TiVo profitability. It is the companies responsibility to make products that are marketable to large numbers of customers and turn a profit. It's NOT up to the consumer to wring their hands about whether a price-cut, change in marketing, etc, is going to result in their beloved company going kaput... that is for TiVo upper management and board of directors to worry about.


It is the companies job to sell you a product, that you buy, and then continue to make a profit off of that product.

Congrats, TiVo did that. You bought it. Now they are selling ads. Sounds like your mission parameters were accomplished. So stop being mad at them for doing exactly what you think they are supposed to do.


----------



## jmpage2

I'm not the only one mad at them. If enough of us get annoyed with them and the word gets around, it could affect their sales and outweigh whatever pittance they are getting for selling an obnoxious advertisement to Carbonite.... or people could just quietly accept every ad change until you have large full screen ads on every screen.... because that's sort of the ultimate goal in marketing, to force eye-balls to look at adds every so many minutes.


----------



## LoadStar

jmpage2 said:


> TiVo should offer an option to opt-out for those of us that are annoyed by the new ads, because it did not exist when we bought the product.


Again, TiVo has been doing ads - including pop-up ads - for years, including the entire duration of the Roamio product line that this forum is discussing. You cannot accurately state that the ads "did not exist when [you] bought the product." They may not have *yet* run an ad on the Roamio product line - but that is not the same thing as what you stated.


----------



## davezatz

jmpage2 said:


> I'm not the only one mad at them. If enough of us get annoyed with them and the word gets around, it could affect their sales and outweigh whatever pittance they are getting for selling an obnoxious advertisement to Carbonite....


Word got around - the Associated Press covered it via dozens of pubs in 2009 (and quote me in the story). TiVo obviously didn't care, despite a continued decline in retail subscribers. Several years later, customers (existing and potential) are probably more tolerant and expectant of these things and Roamio is way better than the Premiere. So I imagine they'll carry on. It is what it is. We gotta suck it up, or move on.


----------



## aaronwt

jmpage2 said:


> I'm not the only one mad at them. If enough of us get annoyed with them and the word gets around, it could affect their sales and outweigh whatever pittance they are getting for selling an obnoxious advertisement to Carbonite.... or people could just quietly accept every ad change until you have large full screen ads on every screen.... because that's sort of the ultimate goal in marketing, to force eye-balls to look at adds every so many minutes.


I think they will lose more sales by not having Android streaming support than having some ads.


----------



## SlappyMcgee

On my Tivo HD I have always had these little ads on the pause menu, and at the bottom the list when I bring up the Tivo menu. It just looks like a menu selection on the pause screen.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Grakthis said:


> I already have to do this, to get rid of the pause bar. It's always in the way.
> 
> Pause + clear. That's the routine. Every time.


I do a pause and then right arrow to advance a frame. It annoys me every time I hit pause as I am usually pausing because I want to get a better look at what's on screen as opposed to pausing and walking away.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Grakthis said:


> Ah, now THAT'S a good question.
> 
> I don't find them that annoying, but how many people have to find them annoying before it stops being worth it?
> 
> Companies have been asking this questions for a really long time.
> 
> i think Amazon's "with offers!" model, for example, gives the "opt out" just so you have it. I don't know anyone who has ever taken it. Just the fact that it EXISTS makes people go "ok, so, I don't HAVE to look at the ads... but I will, because money." But when you don't offer that, it makes people go "JUUUUUUSSSSSTICEEEEEEE! FREEEDOMOMMMMMMMM!!!! I AM SO MADDDDDDD!!!!!!"
> 
> We just want options to make suboptimal choices, even if we don't make them!


I wouldn't even consider a Kindle that has the ads. For me, it's worth the extra cash to get rid of them. Different strokes...


----------



## Dan203

DCIFRTHS said:


> I wouldn't even consider a Kindle that has the ads. For me, it's worth the extra cash to get rid of them. Different strokes...


I bought one and don't even notice it. The ad only shows on the main screen and a single swipe of your finger gets rid of it. It does not intrude on the UI anywhere else. Plus the cool thing is you can buy the ad supported one and if you decide later that you don't like the ads you can simply pay $20 and they're gone forever.

I wish TiVo would offer an option like that. I'd pay an extra $20 to opt-out of the ads.


----------



## zalusky

If they are going to do this they should offer a second tier no AD model.

Many people want the cheap and many people want the first class model.
You can do that for apps on your phone!


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Dan203 said:


> I bought one and don't even notice it. The ad only shows on the main screen and a single swipe of your finger gets rid of it. It does not intrude on the UI anywhere else. Plus the cool thing is you can buy the ad supported one and if you decide later that you don't like the ads you can simply pay $20 and they're gone forever.
> 
> I wish TiVo would offer an option like that. I'd pay an extra $20 to opt-out of the ads.


Sounds like the ads on the Kindle are much less intrusive. I have to admit that I would opt for the no ads version though 

I would also pay TiVo a fee to kill the ads. Are you listening TiVo?


----------



## aaronwt

DCIFRTHS said:


> I wouldn't even consider a Kindle that has the ads. For me, it's worth the extra cash to get rid of them. Different strokes...


The ADs on the kindle Fire have saved me more money than it would have cost to pay to remove the ads.


----------



## davezatz

DCIFRTHS said:


> I wouldn't even consider a Kindle that has the ads. For me, it's worth the extra cash to get rid of them. Different strokes...


The Kindle ads are way, way better than the dead author screensavers.


----------



## Dan203

aaronwt said:


> The ADs on the kindle Fire have saved me more money than it would have cost to pay to remove the ads.


Mine has been in Air Plane mode since the day I got it and downloaded the book I was reading, so it hasn't actually downloaded an ad yet. Just has a little banner that says please connect to wifi to download the latest offers.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

aaronwt said:


> The ADs on the kindle Fire have saved me more money than it would have cost to pay to remove the ads.


As I have mentioned before, to each his own. In my case, it's worth the cost to get rid of them.


----------



## jmpage2

Dan203 said:


> I bought one and don't even notice it. The ad only shows on the main screen and a single swipe of your finger gets rid of it. It does not intrude on the UI anywhere else. Plus the cool thing is you can buy the ad supported one and if you decide later that you don't like the ads you can simply pay $20 and they're gone forever.
> 
> I wish TiVo would offer an option like that. I'd pay an extra $20 to opt-out of the ads.


Right, but you 'opted in' to ads, you have no reason to complain if they change the advertising lineup and start introducing ads more frequently, like between book chapters.

In the case of the TiVo, I bought it knowing that it had ad types A B and C and now they've added type D and I'm not happy about that... especially considering the Cadillac pricing of TiVo.


----------



## CrispyCritter

jmpage2 said:


> Right, but you 'opted in' to ads, you have no reason to complain if they change the advertising lineup and start introducing ads more frequently, like between book chapters.
> 
> In the case of the TiVo, I bought it knowing that it had ad types A B and C and now they've added type D and I'm not happy about that... especially considering the Cadillac pricing of TiVo.


You seem to feel that TiVo broke some kind of implicit contract with you by running the pause ads. Could you state exactly what you felt that contract was (all of it) at the time you bought the TiVo?

I have no idea what your conception of the contract with TiVo was.


----------



## jmpage2

CrispyCritter said:


> You seem to feel that TiVo broke some kind of implicit contract with you by running the pause ads. Could you state exactly what you felt that contract was (all of it) at the time you bought the TiVo?
> 
> I have no idea what your conception of the contract with TiVo was.


Nope, it's not worth going into verbal contracts, terms of service and how courts have upheld consumers having reasonable expectations of service delivery for products they've bought and paid for.

Clearly there are more people who empathize with TiVo, like Carbonite ads, want TiVo to make more money because of the terror of a world without TiVo than people like me who are needled by all of these annoying changes.


----------



## CrispyCritter

jmpage2 said:


> Nope, it's not worth going into verbal contracts, terms of service and how courts have upheld consumers having reasonable expectations of service delivery for products they've bought and paid for.


That wasn't what I asked at all, and I suspect you know that. You've been arguing that TiVo broke a contract with you, but are unwilling to say what the contract was. People have been arguing with that, not that this wasn't objectionable behavior by TiVo. Lots of people are annoyed at TiVo, but you're the only one saying they broke a contract. Why?


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> . I'd pay an extra $20 to opt-out of the ads.





DCIFRTHS said:


> .....I would also pay TiVo a fee to kill the ads. Are you listening TiVo?


 I can't even believe I'm reading people saying they'd pay TiVo $$$ EVEN MORE MONEY $$$ to not have ads after already spending a high premium ($1k plus) on basically a fancy TV guide service!!!

Gullible says "what"....?


----------



## jmpage2

Now there are ads for Bounty paper towels. Aaron make sure you get a deal on those.


----------



## aaronwt

jmpage2 said:


> Now there are ads for Bounty paper towels. Aaron make sure you get a deal on those.


I did that yesterday

My GF uses Bounty so I will give the coupon to her.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

HarperVision said:


> I can't even believe I'm reading people saying they'd pay TiVo $$$ EVEN MORE MONEY $$$ to not have ads after already spending a high premium ($1k plus) on basically a fancy TV guide service!!!
> 
> Gullible says "what"....?


I don't consider myself gullible, but hey... maybe that's my problem


----------



## HarperVision

DCIFRTHS said:


> I don't consider myself gullible, but hey... maybe that's my problem


I hope you didn't take that personally, it wasn't meant to be. I apologize.

I already feel like a PT Barnum victim just buying the lifetime service, let alone if they asked me to pay them even more for one of their "features" to rectify an issue THEY created. Please excuse my cynicism.

I feel like that giant fat guy from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life where the waiter asks him to eat just "one more wafer thin mint" after he just engorged himself for hours. He said he couldn't fit one more thing inside but he let himself be talked into it, so he ate the tiny mint and then EXPLODED all over the restaurant! 

I'm at the "wafer thin mint" point with TiVo right about now.


----------



## swerver

HarperVision said:


> I already feel like a PT Barnum victim just buying the lifetime service


Why's that? If you keep it for 2 years, the service is easily offset by what you'd pay a cable co for a lesser dvr. Seems to me that paying the cable co every month for an inferior product is the sucker's bet.

I completely agree that tivo should offer an ad opt out. Whether I would pay would depend on how much they want. At this point, the ads don't bother me much so I wouldn't pay much.


----------



## jmpage2

swerver said:


> Why's that? If you keep it for 2 years, the service is easily offset by what you'd pay a cable co for a lesser dvr. Seems to me that paying the cable co every month for an inferior product is the sucker's bet.
> 
> I completely agree that tivo should offer an ad opt out. Whether I would pay would depend on how much they want. At this point, the ads don't bother me much so I wouldn't pay much.


That's not even close to an accurate representation.

A base level Roamio with Lifetime service is approximately $700 for the typical customer who does not know they can get a $100 off lifetime discount when making the purchase.

Most cable companies charge $15 or so per month for a DVR. They also provide the equivalent of a lifetime extended warranty including the ability to upgrade to a better model at zero cost to the consumer.

2 years of renting the cable company DVR is about $360, which is far shy of the $700 a TiVo runs. TiVo has great resale value today, but we don't really know what it will be in another 2-3-4 years, especially if they keep stuffing it with ads.

I like my TiVo a LOT better than the cable company DVR, but that's primarily because Comcast boxes are crap. The ones from Dish Network and DTV, which friends of mine have, while not up to TiVo quality are not "terrible" these days.


----------



## HarperVision

swerver said:


> Why's that? If you keep it for 2 years, the service is easily offset by what you'd pay a cable co for a lesser dvr. Seems to me that paying the cable co every month for an inferior product is the sucker's bet.
> 
> I completely agree that tivo should offer an ad opt out. Whether I would pay would depend on how much they want. At this point, the ads don't bother me much so I wouldn't pay much.


I'm mainly comparing it to the Windows Media Center, PC cablecard tuner, xbox360 whole home solution. The equipment costs are about the same and then there's no service fee to get guide data, etc.

......Oh Yeah, and NO ADS!!!


----------



## swerver

jmpage2 said:


> That's not even close to an accurate representation.
> 
> A base level Roamio with Lifetime service is approximately $700 for the typical customer who does not know they can get a $100 off lifetime discount when making the purchase.
> 
> Most cable companies charge $15 or so per month for a DVR. They also provide the equivalent of a lifetime extended warranty including the ability to upgrade to a better model at zero cost to the consumer.
> 
> 2 years of renting the cable company DVR is about $360, which is far shy of the $700 a TiVo runs. TiVo has great resale value today, but we don't really know what it will be in another 2-3-4 years, especially if they keep stuffing it with ads.
> 
> I like my TiVo a LOT better than the cable company DVR, but that's primarily because Comcast boxes are crap. The ones from Dish Network and DTV, which friends of mine have, while not up to TiVo quality are not "terrible" these days.


I was talking about the service only, so it's actually a quite valid comparison thanks. $15 is a little low, they are inching up every year, most are more like $18 or $20 these days. At $18 x 24 months, you are up to $432 already.

The price of the device is offset when you sell it. You won't get all your money back, but you will get a good percentage of it.


----------



## jmpage2

swerver said:


> I was talking about the service only, so it's actually a quite valid comparison thanks. $15 is a little low, they are inching up every year, most are more like $18 or $20 these days. At $18 x 24 months, you are up to $432 already.
> 
> The price of the device is offset when you sell it. You won't get all your money back, but you will get a good percentage of it.


Your comparison is still flawed. A TiVo without lifetime has very little resale value after 2-3 years... at least that has held true for the last couple of generations.

So someone can spend roughly the same amount for TiVo service or a cable rental that includes a warranty and the equivalent of free upgrades 'for life'.... and that doesn't include the initial outlay for the TiVo hardware or any additional cable-card charges they might incur if it's not the only device on their network.

The point I'm trying to make is that loading up the TiVo with additional adds dilutes it's value, at least that's my opinion.


----------



## cosmicvoid

HarperVision said:


> I'm mainly comparing it to the Windows Media Center, PC cablecard tuner, xbox360 whole home solution. The equipment costs are about the same and then there's no service fee to get guide data, etc.
> 
> ......Oh Yeah, and NO ADS!!!


Right, no ads and free guide data (for how long?)... but no more bug fixes and no new features, ever. Plus, WMC is not without its share of annoyances.


----------



## ltxi

davezatz said:


> The Kindle ads are way, way better than the dead author screensavers.


No they aren't. Culture trumps crap.


----------



## Davelnlr_

Dan203 said:


> The pause ad is huge and covers the whole screen. If I pause to see something I have to press another button to get rid of it.


Wonder if a two key press macro on a programmable remote would work?


----------



## HarperVision

cosmicvoid said:


> Right, no ads and free guide data (for how long?)... but no more bug fixes and no new features, ever. Plus, WMC is not without its share of annoyances.


Worked pretty damned well for me and any bugs I had were indeed cleared within a couple weeks by the tuner manufacturers. Much more than I can say for my TiVo equipment. It just "worked"! There are "features" provided by third party developers btw. I do like TiVo believe it or not. Been a customer since the first 14 hr Philips model. It's just they push the limits and get pretty greedy sometimes and I don't think do the best things for their customers very often. They could've been HUGE by now if they did some things differently in the past. This is all my humble opinion anyway.


----------



## aaronwt

jmpage2 said:


> That's not even close to an accurate representation.
> 
> A base level Roamio with Lifetime service is approximately $700 for the typical customer who does not know they can get a $100 off lifetime discount when making the purchase.
> 
> Most cable companies charge $15 or so per month for a DVR. They also provide the equivalent of a lifetime extended warranty including the ability to upgrade to a better model at zero cost to the consumer.
> 
> 2 years of renting the cable company DVR is about $360, which is far shy of the $700 a TiVo runs. TiVo has great resale value today, but we don't really know what it will be in another 2-3-4 years, especially if they keep stuffing it with ads.
> 
> I like my TiVo a LOT better than the cable company DVR, but that's primarily because Comcast boxes are crap. The ones from Dish Network and DTV, which friends of mine have, while not up to TiVo quality are not "terrible" these days.


You have to compare apple's to apple's. So the number of tuners need to be the same. With my Roamio Pro at $600, msd lifetime and two TiVo Minis with lifetime. The breakeven point is around 33 months when compared to what FiOS and Comcast offers in my area.. And that is before the resale value is added in since you own the TiVos.

With current pricing and getting a plus and adding your own drive, the breakeven point is even lower.


----------



## swerver

jmpage2 said:


> Your comparison is still flawed. A TiVo without lifetime has very little resale value after 2-3 years... at least that has held true for the last couple of generations.
> 
> So someone can spend roughly the same amount for TiVo service or a cable rental that includes a warranty and the equivalent of free upgrades 'for life'.... and that doesn't include the initial outlay for the TiVo hardware or any additional cable-card charges they might incur if it's not the only device on their network.
> 
> The point I'm trying to make is that loading up the TiVo with additional adds dilutes it's value, at least that's my opinion.


And I agree with that point. Sorry I wasn't clear - I was comparing lifetime service, to renting from cable Co., in which case the lifetime service bill is offset by renting a dvr for around 2 years. The $400 lifetime, not $500, since that's what I've paid for both my tivos.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

HarperVision said:


> I hope you didn't take that personally, it wasn't meant to be. I apologize.


Thanks! I appreciate you posting back to clarify your original post. I am not offended, so no worries!



HarperVision said:


> already feel like a PT Barnum victim just buying the lifetime service, let alone if they asked me to pay them even more for one of their "features" to rectify an issue THEY created. Please excuse my cynicism.


I understand what you are saying, and buyer's remorse can be a pain in the butt. BUT, the I feel that you didn't make a bad choice with your purchase - this box will have a nice resale value if you decide to sell it sometime down the road.

BTW, I would like to think that if TiVo added an option to offer a "premium" ad free experience that they would offer this as a choice to _existing_ Lifetime Subscribers as no cost option, as you have already paid for their premium subscription option.



HarperVision said:


> feel like that giant fat guy from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life where the waiter asks him to eat just "one more wafer thin mint" after he just engorged himself for hours. He said he couldn't fit one more thing inside but he let himself be talked into it, so he ate the tiny mint and then EXPLODED all over the restaurant!
> 
> I'm at the "wafer thin mint" point with TiVo right about now.


I am familiar with the scene, and it has always stuck with me. The bucket part really freaked me out... I honestly feel that you are NOT that fat guy.

I offer my opinions on your purchase as a outsider, so I don't want to diminish the way you feel. I understand you are at that "thin mint" point, and you are entitled to those feelings.


----------



## anthonymoody

I just got SPSPS to take via watching a showcase video. I guess I misunderstood what this did. I thought it would just make the ads disappear, not the entire pause/scrub bar which I actually like. 

Hmm. Have to decide whether to undo this. I use that frequently when my kids ask to finish a show before bedtime. Have to check the time remaining!


----------



## moyekj

anthonymoody said:


> I just got SPSPS to take via watching a showcase video. I guess I misunderstood what this did. I thought it would just make the ads disappear, not the entire pause/scrub bar which I actually like.
> 
> Hmm. Have to decide whether to undo this. I use that frequently when my kids ask to finish a show before bedtime. Have to check the time remaining!


 You can press "play" to briefly see the pause bar any time you want when SPSPS is enabled. Personally I find the play bar intrusive most of the time so SPSPS is on permanently for me.


----------



## anthonymoody

moyekj said:


> You can press "play" to briefly see the pause bar any time you want when SPSPS is enabled. Personally I find the play bar intrusive most of the time so SPSPS is on permanently for me.


Ah thanks. Yeah I see it appears though it also starts playback again (duh). But good to know.


----------



## Davelnlr_

anthonymoody said:


> Ah thanks. Yeah I see it appears though it also starts playback again (duh). But good to know.


Hit play while the video is playing, before hitting pause.


----------



## Joe Siegler

PHeadland said:


> Leaving aside how I feel about paying around $1,000 for a TiVo plus lifetime service in order to be pestered by advertising (hint - not positive)...
> 
> We are seeing a "Cryptonite free trial" ad op up above the pause bar, Pressing "down" gets rid of it OK, but the damn' thing comes back every single time we pause, which is getting really, really old, because we generally pause so we can look at the picture, and the advert covers up a big chunk of it. I did the SPS-Pause trick (which I did not want to do, because I find the bar useful) but even then the ad flashes up annoyingly for about half a second when I pause.
> 
> I don't recall our old TiVo HD behaving like this (I vaguely recollect that once you dismissed an ad it was gone for good) - is this something new, or do I just remember wrong?
> 
> More to the point, is there some way to retain the bar but stop the excessively frequent pop-up ad (I don't mind seeing it once in a while, it's the excessive repetition/flashing that is infuriating).
> 
> As to the value of the advertising; right now I would happily punch someone from Cryptonite in the face, because it is so intrusive and annoying. The chances of me every wanting to buy something from them are zero.


This is not new, it's been happening on TiVos going back many a year. It just doesn't happen that often.

This is also LESS obnoxious than some ad attempts they've done in the past. Look at this one I recorded off my TiVo in 2009.


----------



## prisk

They let you opt out of some but not all of the ads:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/68


----------



## anthonymoody

Davelnlr_ said:


> Hit play while the video is playing, before hitting pause.


Man the things you learn on the internet. Thanks!


----------



## miller890

My bet is TiVo doesn't know how obnoxious the new pause ads are because the executives' personal TiVo's don't receive ads. Why would they eat their own dog food?!


----------



## jmpage2

miller890 said:


> My bet is TiVo doesn't know how obnoxious the new pause ads are because the executives' personal TiVo's don't receive ads. Why would they eat their own dog food?!


I don't think it's a coincidence that these ads were introduced after the initial launch and press reviews.

They didn't want reviews to mention or comment on these new ads, so they put them in after the initial reviews went out.

Pretty sneaky TiVo.


----------



## uw69

Joe Siegler said:


> This is not new, it's been happening on TiVos going back many a year. It just doesn't happen that often.
> 
> This is also LESS obnoxious than some ad attempts they've done in the past. Look at this one I recorded off my TiVo in 2009.
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uj3miEksiI[/media]


+1 No big deal.


----------



## jmpage2

I just had an online chat with a TiVo CSR who confirmed that the pause/play ads cannot be opted out of at this time. She did offer to pass the comments along and invited me to go to http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/168 and make a suggestion to remove them.

I would say that anyone who finds them annoying should do both. Ask a CSR to pass comments along that you don't like the ads as well as use the 'request a new feature' to ask TiVo to get rid of them.


----------



## steve614

I suspect that any such request will be a futile endeavor that will only fall on deaf ears. 

Think about all the requests for features that haven't been implemented and *don't* cut into TiVos revenue...


----------



## wedgar

ptr727 said:


> I opened a case with support to complain about the intrusive ad.
> They said they can opt me out of most ads, but not all.
> Waiting to receive confirmation if opting out applies to this type of ad.


What did you do to open a case?

I just got the Roamio Pro and am considering returning it due the the ads in Tivo Central. I figured paid $500 for the unit - I shouldn't be forced to see advertising.

Thanks...


----------



## synch22

Pretty crappy and as someone jumping between tuners often as I click the back button or pause to switch tuners, I run into this ad often . I even tried to count how many pauses until it appeared again ... Its not many.
Ruining the experience but I can ditch it. $1k and we get this....annoying.


----------



## dianebrat

wedgar said:


> What did you do to open a case?
> 
> I just got the Roamio Pro and am considering returning it due the the ads in Tivo Central. I figured paid $500 for the unit - I shouldn't be forced to see advertising.


 I know this isn't what you want to hear, but they're not going away, if they bother you that much you should return the unit.


----------



## uw69

dianebrat said:


> I know this isn't what you want to hear, but they're not going away, if they bother you that much you should return the unit.


Absolutely correct!


----------



## crxssi

synch22 said:


> Pretty crappy and as someone jumping between tuners often as I click the back button or pause to switch tuners, I run into this ad often . I even tried to count how many pauses until it appeared again ... Its not many.
> Ruining the experience but I can ditch it. $1k and we get this....annoying.


I finally used the SPSPS trick pause code and it really does work. No more oversized, annoying pause ads!

Play back a program, then press Select, Play, Select, Pause, Select. If it works, no more progress bar or ads on pause. If it didn't work, try it again. Sometimes it takes several times.


----------



## jrock

They really aren't that bad. I don't even pay attention to them. Once on my premiere I clicked one by accident and went to some paper towel ad but it hasn't happened yet on the Roamio. Just tune em out and don't let em bother you.


----------



## zalusky

dianebrat said:


> I know this isn't what you want to hear, but they're not going away, if they bother you that much you should return the unit.


No the answer is I will pay an additional premium option not to see them!
I do that on apps for my phone and for premium cable to watch a movie straight through. I should be able to do that here.


----------



## Goober96

zalusky said:


> No the answer is I will pay an additional premium option not to see them! I do that on apps for my phone and for premium cable to watch a movie straight through. I should be able to do that here.


But you can't so that is not the answer.


----------



## zalusky

Goober96 said:


> But you can't so that is not the answer.


Currently!


----------



## yokito

The TiVo community could put a magnifying glass on this if you will and eventually generate enough bad press for TiVo to make them listen.

I'm contemplating attempting just that. I'm quite certain there will be plenty support here.

The fact that you can't buy your way out of this makes no sense


----------



## jmpage2

yokito said:


> The TiVo community could put a magnifying glass on this if you will and eventually generate enough bad press for TiVo to make them listen.
> 
> I'm contemplating attempting just that. I'm quite certain there will be plenty support here.
> 
> The fact that you can't buy your way out of this makes no sense


I agree. Even getting gadget blogs like Engadget or Slashdot to pick up the story that users are unhappy will give them some bad press and could force them to respond in some fashion.

Making that attempt here at TCF is a waste of time though, way too many TiVo sycophants here.


----------



## andyf

I'm pretty sure this complaint has been on going for at least 5 years now with many lengthy threads on the issue. Guess what? We still have them.


----------



## ptr727

wedgar said:


> What did you do to open a case?
> 
> I just got the Roamio Pro and am considering returning it due the the ads in Tivo Central. I figured paid $500 for the unit - I shouldn't be forced to see advertising.
> 
> Thanks...


I called support, and they opted me out of advertising. They said they cannot confirm if these ads would go away, they didn't, I still see them.

P.


----------



## jmpage2

andyf said:


> I'm pretty sure this complaint has been on going for at least 5 years now with many lengthy threads on the issue. Guess what? We still have them.


This new advertising is more obtrusive than the other stuff they have done. Even my wide complained about it and she normally could care less how many ads she gets spammed with.


----------



## Bierboy

yokito said:


> The TiVo community could put a magnifying glass on this if you will and eventually generate enough bad press for TiVo to make them listen...


Dream on....and, to zalusky, the "premium" you pay for apps not displaying ads is a pittance. What you might have to pay to TiVo should they ever offer the option would be WAY more than a pittance...



andyf said:


> I'm pretty sure this complaint has been on going for at least 5 years now with many lengthy threads on the issue. Guess what? We still have them.


Exactly....never gonna disappear.


----------



## jrock

Look at Hulu Plus, you can pay for that and still have to watch all the commercials. I assume TiVo is just trying to make some more income to keep everything running without having to increase the cost of monthly and life time service to us.

The problem is if you start letting people pay to opt out of ads all together then the companies advertising will know this and won't want the ads anymore if anyone can opt out. So it's either all or none most likely and most people don't care about the ads so they aren't going to raise the rates for everyone to get rid of ads just to make a small percentage of people happy. IMO


----------



## b_scott

yeah they made the ads on the pause bar even larger and more intrusive.


----------



## Fofer

Long ago, when smaller, less obtrusive ads appeared on TiVo, we complained and talked about the "slippery slope" -- and folks told us we were being paranoid...

Now, we have this:










Yeesh.


----------



## atmuscarella

Fofer: 

What type of TV are you watching? Is it an old 4:3 one? The adds on mine don't appear that big and I can see the whole bar. In any event the show is paused which meas I am not watching it for some reason and if I want to look at the paused picture for some reason, it is only one button click to get rid of all of it. I get it is not optimal but really what does it matter?


----------



## b_scott

they're that large with the new update. that is not a shot of the whole screen obviously - look at the 1hr getting cut off.


----------



## Fofer

atmuscarella said:


> Fofer:
> 
> What type of TV are you watching? Is it an old 4:3 one? The adds on mine don't appear that big and I can see the whole bar. In any event the show is paused which meas I am not watching it for some reason and if I want to look at the paused picture for some reason, it is only one button click to get rid of all of it. I get it is not optimal but really what does it matter?


No, my TV's are 16:9, 1080p, etc. That's just someone else's screengrab I found on the web 

The ads aren't the end of the world, but in principle they bother me. They also feel cheap and cluttered to me. I pause TV all the time and I don't like that kind of "noise" and uninteresting marketing in my face. I'll remove it whenever I can. TiVo in particular seems intent on ramming a lot of down my throat. And that's annoying, considering I already pay them for service.

I did however follow the "hack" mentioned here and now my playbar (and more importantly, the pause ads that make my eyes bleed) disappears immediately. I'll see how I like this as a workaround.


----------



## jmpage2

Bierboy said:


> Dream on....and, to zalusky, the "premium" you pay for apps not displaying ads is a pittance. What you might have to pay to TiVo should they ever offer the option would be WAY more than a pittance...
> 
> Exactly....never gonna disappear.


Why would it need to be a high amount? You are assuming they make a LOT of ad revenue and I am very skeptical of that. Maybe someone familiar with their financials can comment.

I would be willing to bet that the total ad revenue they get from a subscriber over a 5 year period of time is less than $20. I'll gladly give them $50 to get rid of all of this crap.


----------



## jrock

Just press down to hide!



Fofer said:


> Long ago, when smaller, less obtrusive ads appeared on TiVo, we complained and talked about the "slippery slope" -- and folks told us we were being paranoid...
> 
> Now, we have this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeesh.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Not only are the pause ads large and obtrusive, Tivo has no form of rate limiting. So I get Carbonite, Bounty and Fox programming shoved in my face literally a dozen times a day even in the best case scenario of manually hiding it during EACH recording. Yeah, I _love _that.

The utter spammy nature of these ads is over the top. In fact, the ads are having the opposite effect of their intent. We DISlike them to the point of disliking the advertisers. They're so obtrusive and never-ending Tivo is hurting the advertiser brands in my household. I was neutral-to-positive about Carbonite before, but now I am fed up hearing about them. The usefulness of these ads was spent 2 days after they started.

Folks who are annoyed by the ads should do what I did and contact the advertisers directly and tell them how obtrusive they are and that they're hurting their brand (if you believe they are).


----------



## Fofer

jrock said:


> Just press down to hide!


Yeah, I knew I could do that, but I prefer to not have to do *anything* to hide an ad. Pressing a button to hide it means I've acknowledged its existence, and then the terrorists win. 

I'd rather it (and the play bar too, if necessary) be hidden by default... with me having to press a button to make it appear. That fits my brain better.


----------



## monkeydust

I think they should at least make Thumbs Down while an ad is up mean "Never show me this ad again"


----------



## Bierboy

jmpage2 said:


> Why would it need to be a high amount? You are assuming they make a LOT of ad revenue and I am very skeptical of that. Maybe someone familiar with their financials can comment.
> 
> I would be willing to bet that the total ad revenue they get from a subscriber over a 5 year period of time is less than $20. I'll gladly give them $50 to get rid of all of this crap.


I said, if you would have read carefully, "what you MIGHT have to pay"....and, if you don't think $50 (in your example) is significantly more than a few dollars to pay for an ad-free app, then I don't understand your line of thinking...


----------



## tonestert

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Not only are the pause ads large and obtrusive, Tivo has no form of rate limiting. So I get Carbonite, Bounty and Fox programming shoved in my face literally a dozen times a day even in the best case scenario of manually hiding it during EACH recording. Yeah, I _love _that.
> 
> The utter spammy nature of these ads is over the top. In fact, the ads are having the opposite effect of their intent. We DISlike them to the point of disliking the advertisers. They're so obtrusive and never-ending Tivo is hurting the advertiser brands in my household. I was neutral-to-positive about Carbonite before, but now I am fed up hearing about them. The usefulness of these ads was spent 2 days after they started.
> 
> Folks who are annoyed by the ads should do what I did and contact the advertisers directly and tell them how obtrusive they are and that they're hurting their brand (if you believe they are).


I totally agree. I wouldn't use Carbonite now even if they gave it to me for free.


----------



## mr_smits

zalusky said:


> No the answer is I will pay an additional premium option not to see them!
> I do that on apps for my phone and for premium cable to watch a movie straight through. I should be able to do that here.


You should be more concerned about your viewing behavior, pauses, rewinds, etc. being sold for marketing purposes. I don't believe you can opt out of this feature. My understanding is that Tivo makes quite a bit on selling this information. However, I believe all providers do this, so unless you are moving away from TV and DVR altogether, get used to it.


----------



## zalusky

mr_smits said:


> You should be more concerned about your viewing behavior, pauses, rewinds, etc. being sold for marketing purposes. I don't believe you can opt out of this feature. My understanding is that Tivo makes quite a bit on selling this information. However, I believe all providers do this, so unless you are moving away from TV and DVR altogether, get used to it.


Actually that does not bother me. I understand the possible privacy issues but they say they do not sell it with individual identification.

What bothers me is them messing with my user experience.
I suppose I could by a smart remote that adds a down arrow to pause and other actions but I would rather give the money to Tivo and make them more profitable.

They should be able to look at the revenue per subscriber for these ads and come up with a opt-out model.

There are plenty of vehicles for them to make profit with in-app purchases if they start going there.


----------



## s10023

Would it be acceptable for BMW to start showing popup ads on their nav screens?


----------



## crxssi

jrock said:


> Look at Hulu Plus, you can pay for that and still have to watch all the commercials.


Which is incredibly stupid. I have no idea why anyone would tolerate that. Having ads in content is OK, but making them unskippable on a PAID service is not.

Not directed to your post...

Anyway, we all know ads on TiVo are not going away. The issue is that they have made them much more annoying on the pause ads by making them bigger and with a larger/dark background. The immediate answer is to use the SPSP code to skip it. But complaining about them is perfectly valid. They are no longer unobtrusive and if people don't complain, it is highly probable this is just the start of them becoming even more annoying in the future.


----------



## crxssi

s10023 said:


> Would it be acceptable for BMW to start showing popup ads on their nav screens?


My Garmin GPS on my motorcycle now has maps that are more than 2 years old and every 4th time it is powered on, they spam me with messages saying how I should PAY FOR UPDATED MAPS. There is no way to disable the message. I find it completely annoying and inappropriate. It doesn't matter that is "just one more key press", it is ANNOYING and makes me angry every time. And for that reason, I told Garmin that not only would I *NEVER* pay for updates now, I will never buy one of their products again AND I will tell everyone I know asking me about GPS products about what they did.

Same thing happened at work. We have a call accounting system and the support contract lapsed after we had been paying for 4 years. Now it has a huge red banner on all our reports saying "THIS DATA MIGHT NOT BE ACCURATE BECAUSE YOUR SUPPORT CONTACT HAS ENDED". I called them to ask them to remove it from our 100% paid software license, they said they could not. I told them not to expect us to EVER pay for support now and that we would be budgeting to replace their software at our next opportunity. I also called our distributor and told them the whole story also and posted it on a review site.

Negatively changing the functionality of something you already fully bought with nags or annoyances unless you pay for something else and without prior full disclosure is EXTORTION.


----------



## CrispyCritter

jmpage2 said:


> Why would it need to be a high amount? You are assuming they make a LOT of ad revenue and I am very skeptical of that. Maybe someone familiar with their financials can comment.
> 
> I would be willing to bet that the total ad revenue they get from a subscriber over a 5 year period of time is less than $20. I'll gladly give them $50 to get rid of all of this crap.


I agree that the current advertising revenue is negligible (not material) according to their financial reports. But they've always had great plans for targeted advertising. Over 10 years ago they were predicting 1/3 of their revenue would be ads.

As I've said before, my view is the target for these ads is not us, but cable company execs. They're showing cable companies the advertising potential they'll have if they choose TiVo as their company's DVR.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

monkeydust said:


> I think they should at least make Thumbs Down while an ad is up mean "Never show me this ad again"


Interesting idea... and one that I could live with - as long as there wasn't a constant stream of ads to replace the ones I thumbed down.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

mr_smits said:


> You should be more concerned about your viewing behavior, pauses, rewinds, etc. being sold for marketing purposes. I don't believe you can opt out of this feature. My understanding is that Tivo makes quite a bit on selling this information. However, I believe all providers do this, so unless you are moving away from TV and DVR altogether, get used to it.


As long as my viewing behavior is anonymous, I don't mid if TiVo makes money off of it. It's the stuff that gets in my way that pisses me off (annoying popups, gold stars and lost screen real estate).


----------



## DCIFRTHS

CrispyCritter said:


> I agree that the current advertising revenue is negligible (not material) according to their financial reports. But they've always had great plans for targeted advertising. Over 10 years ago they were predicting 1/3 of their revenue would be ads.
> 
> As I've said before, my view is the target for these ads is not us, but cable company execs. They're showing cable companies the advertising potential they'll have if they choose TiVo as their company's DVR.


I agree with your thought regarding TiVo "advertising" their "advertising system" to the cable companies. It's being a beta tester, by force, that bothers me.


----------



## DrWeed420

The 2x larger ad bar now shown when paused may just be a sign of worse things to come in the future. The size of the ads may just continue to grow until they reach the point of taking up the full screen, which may then include multiple banner ads, links to watch video commercials, or even worse, automatically showing video commercials while you are on pause.


----------



## MikePA1

DrWeed420 said:


> or even worse, automatically showing video commercials while you are on pause.


If I put the TiVo on Pause, it's because I have to leave the room, so I wouldn't call this 'even worse' since I won't see a TiVo video commercial.


----------



## Fofer

Many of us put the TiVo on pause because we're in the same room and we want to focus on something else. Like a conversation (in person or on the phone.)


----------



## DCIFRTHS

DrWeed420 said:


> The 2x larger ad bar now shown when paused may just be a sign of worse things to come in the future. The size of the ads may just continue to grow until they reach the point of taking up the full screen, which may then include multiple banner ads, links to watch video commercials, or even worse, automatically showing video commercials while you are on pause.


They are going to continue to grow. It's inevitable. I really hope TiVo offers us a way out... without having to leave for good.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Fofer said:


> Many of us put the TiVo on pause because we're in the same room and we want to focus on something else. Like a conversation (in person or on the phone.)


I use pause for what you described, and also to get a better look at something onscreen.


----------



## jrock

Will pressing Clear when on pause remove the ad?


----------



## Goober96

jrock said:


> Will pressing Clear when on pause remove the ad?


Yes it does which is why it's not really as big a deal as some make it out to be.


----------



## jrock

Exactly, when I hit pause to look at something I always hit clear anyways to remove the progress bar so it's no different with the ad there or not. I don't even notice them anymore.

-Joe


----------



## Goober96

jrock said:


> Exactly, when I hit pause to look at something I always hit clear anyways to remove the progress bar so it's no different with the ad there or not. I don't even notice them anymore. -Joe


Better yet if you have a Harmony program CLEAR Into pause and it's still one button press. Not a big deal at all. Some people just like to complain.


----------



## Fofer

Goober96 said:


> Better yet if you have a Harmony program CLEAR Into pause and it's still one button press. Not a big deal at all. Some people just like to complain.


Nah, if I'm gonna do that, I'd rather just use the SPSP code. That way the solution is "remote independent." I like being able to use the original TiVo remote (or the Bluetooth Slide remote, in another room) from time to time.


----------



## crxssi

Goober96 said:


> Yes it does which is why it's not really as big a deal as some make it out to be.


Quit saying that and trivializing other people's issues. Perhaps YOU don't pause very often, trying to look at things on the screen. Perhaps YOU don't find it that annoying. Perhaps YOU don't think it blocks too much of the screen. But others might, and their concerns are perfectly valid.

*JUST BECAUSE IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL TO YOU DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT A BIG DEAL FOR OTHERS.*

The solution is to use the SPSP code.


----------



## Goober96

crxssi said:


> Quit saying that and trivializing other people's issues. Perhaps YOU don't pause very often, trying to look at things on the screen. Perhaps YOU don't find it that annoying. Perhaps YOU don't think it blocks too much of the screen. But others might, and their concerns are perfectly valid. JUST BECAUSE IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL TO YOU DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT A BIG DEAL FOR OTHERS. The solution is to use the SPSP code.


So use the code and be done with it. Still not a big deal.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

crxssi said:


> Quit saying that and trivializing other people's issues. Perhaps YOU don't pause very often, trying to look at things on the screen. Perhaps YOU don't find it that annoying. Perhaps YOU don't think it blocks too much of the screen. But others might, and their concerns are perfectly valid.
> 
> *JUST BECAUSE IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL TO YOU DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT A BIG DEAL FOR OTHERS.*
> 
> ...


I agree with you.

Unfortunately, some people don't respect that others can be bothered by things that don't bother them. It's a selfish attitude. Kind of sad that people can be so self absorbed.


----------



## b_scott

I don't think it'll ever get to the point of full screen or ads during pause - because by that time everything will be IPTV on demand and we won't need Tivos anymore.


----------



## ltxi

For whatever reason, the pause pop-up ads on playback on my two new Roamios have all gone away.


----------



## crxssi

ltxi said:


> For whatever reason, the pause pop-up ads on playback on my two new Roamios have all gone away.


Expect that to be temporary...


----------



## Devx

A reminder that those discontent with the ad size and locations should sign up for the Tivo Advisors panel. There are surveys sent out that address these exact topics and allow Tivo to collect and aggregate the data better than on TCF.

http://www3.tivo.com/panel/index.do


----------



## HarperVision

Has anyone else noticed that they're implementing the pop up "thumbs up" ad in the upper right hand corner of your screen when one of their partner's commercials come on, like they used to? I saw it the other night with Bounty paper towels.


----------



## steve614

I've been seeing the Charmin one ever since they started that campaign. Haven't see the Bounty one yet, or any others for that matter.

Too bad the networks don't buy into this. I miss seeing the "press thumbs up to record" during an ad for a show.


----------



## jmpage2

steve614 said:


> I've been seeing the Charmin one ever since they started that campaign. Haven't see the Bounty one yet, or any others for that matter.
> 
> Too bad the networks don't buy into this. I miss seeing the "press thumbs up to record" during an ad for a show.


They have been showing one for "Almost Human" in my market now for a while where they want you to press thumbs up to record. I bet even if you press thumbs up it continues to spam you with the ad at every opportunity.


----------



## crxssi

HarperVision said:


> Has anyone else noticed that they're implementing the pop up "thumbs up" ad in the upper right hand corner of your screen when one of their partner's commercials come on, like they used to?


Yes. But they have been doing that for years.


----------



## dianebrat

HarperVision said:


> Has anyone else noticed that they're implementing the pop up "thumbs up" ad in the upper right hand corner of your screen when one of their partner's commercials come on, like they used to? I saw it the other night with Bounty paper towels.





crxssi said:


> Yes. But they have been doing that for years.


I miss it's old name "tivo-matic"


----------



## ltxi

crxssi said:


> Expect that to be temporary...


Why?


----------



## crxssi

ltxi said:


> Why?


Because ads are not going away. Sometimes they disappear for a while, especially when promotions are changing. Other factors seem to affect it to, although we don't know what they are.

The only thing for sure is that they always come back.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

HarperVision said:


> Has anyone else noticed that they're implementing the pop up "thumbs up" ad in the upper right hand corner of your screen when one of their partner's commercials come on, like they used to? I saw it the other night with Bounty paper towels.


Yes. This is the only TiVo ad that I don't mind at all.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

crxssi said:


> Expect that to be temporary...


Unfortunately, you are probably correct...


----------



## HarperVision

crxssi said:


> Yes. But they have been doing that for years.


I know I just haven't seen it for a LONG time. I thought maybe they discontinued that form of ads.


----------



## crxssi

HarperVision said:


> I know I just haven't seen it for a LONG time. I thought maybe they discontinued that form of ads.


I just saw it last week (commercial thumbs ads). Although I admit it had been a loooong time since I had seen it prior.


----------



## tonestert

For some reason I keep having to redo the Select Play Select Pause Select (Easter Egg) to get rid of the ads. I'll do the spsps and then the next day the ads are back.
Anyone else having this issue ? I hate the damn pause ads !


----------



## tim1724

tonestert said:


> For some reason I keep having to redo the Select Play Select Pause Select (Easter Egg) to get rid of the ads. I'll do the spsps and then the next day the ads are back.
> Anyone else having this issue ? I hate the damn pause ads !


I know that if the TiVo reboots you have to re-enter the code. (Some SPS codes persist across reboots, such as the one for old-style 30-second skip, but others like this one get reset when you reboot.)

The ads don't bother me so I never use this code. But from what I understand a reboot is the only thing that should be resetting it.


----------



## Bierboy

tim1724 said:


> I know that if the TiVo reboots you have to re-enter the code. (Some SPS codes persist across reboots, such as the one for old-style 30-second skip, but _*others like this one get reset when you reboot*_.)...


Not so....my XL4 has rebooted and this code does NOT reset. It's worked since the day I activated the code. Maybe on the Roamio it needs to be reset, but not on my Premiere...


----------



## TVjunky

Well I currently have directv thinking about getting Tivo but this add thing is ridiculous pay $1000 plus for a system then have to tweak it for hours between cable company and tivo plus a monthly or lifetime fee and you have to put up with Ads WoW.

Directv shows no ads whatsoever on any DVR playback screens


----------



## HarperVision

TVjunky said:


> Well I currently have directv thinking about getting Tivo but this add thing is ridiculous pay $1000 plus for a system then have to tweak it for hours between cable company and tivo plus a monthly or lifetime fee and you have to put up with Ads WoW.
> 
> Directv shows no ads whatsoever on any DVR playback screens


I came from directv and I have to say in the long run its worth it. What I would do is get the TiVo gear and try it out for the thirty day money back period and see if it works for you. Just suspend your directv account if you don't want to pay 2 bills.


----------



## b_scott

TVjunky said:


> Well I currently have directv thinking about getting Tivo but this add thing is ridiculous pay $1000 plus for a system then have to tweak it for hours between cable company and tivo plus a monthly or lifetime fee and you have to put up with Ads WoW.
> 
> Directv shows no ads whatsoever on any DVR playback screens


tweak it for hours? what?

As for ads on playback - just do the "Select Play Select Pause Select" trickplay and the bar/ads will instantly go away when paused.


----------



## Fofer

b_scott said:


> the bar/ads will instantly go away when paused.


(so will the timeline, FWIW)


----------



## b_scott

Fofer said:


> (so will the timeline, FWIW)


right, the bar. I said that 

you can always bring it back up if you really need it. I've always had mine off because I've never had a need to see it. You see it once you start fast forwarding.


----------



## jmpage2

Some of us like the normal timeline behavior and don't want to have to enable a special feature to hide the ads. It would be better if we could opt out of those ads as they cover a lot of screen real estate, are intrusive, are annoying, and didn't exist (for many of us) when we bought the product.


----------



## TrooperOrange

jmpage2 said:


> Some of us like the normal timeline behavior and don't want to have to enable a special feature to hide the ads. It would be better if we could opt out of those ads as they cover a lot of screen real estate, are intrusive, are annoying, and didn't exist (for many of us) when we bought the product.


This is how I feel. :up:


----------



## TrooperOrange

I understand the perspective of ads are everywhere, normal cable DVR's have them, just ignore them etc...

There is still a part of me very pissed off though. We shell out good money for their hardware (Expensive for what it is) and then pay them $15/mo on top and we still get these nasty huge ads. Annoys the piss out of me.

I understand Tivo needs to make money etc... etc... but really?

I think the reality is Tivo has no real competition, so they don't really care that much about CE. MCE and Beyond TV boxes aren't what they once were, cable company DVR's just suck all around, and there really isn't anyone else out there.


----------



## atmuscarella

TrooperOrange said:


> I understand the perspective of ads are everywhere, normal cable DVR's have them, just ignore them etc...
> 
> There is still a part of me very pissed off though. We shell out good money for their hardware (Expensive for what it is) and then pay them $15/mo on top and we still get these nasty huge ads. Annoys the piss out of me.
> 
> I understand Tivo needs to make money etc... etc... but really?
> 
> I think the reality is Tivo has no real competition, so they don't really care that much about CE. MCE and Beyond TV boxes aren't what they once were, cable company DVR's just suck all around, and there really isn't anyone else out there.


Adds are everywhere, I hardly notice the ones on my TiVos. My patients spend over $75/mo for satellite without any premium/add free channels or a DVR to help skip past them. Now that's what I call abuse.


----------



## kbmb

Are these pause ads new? They are longer and shorter than usual. Just started noticing them the other day.










-Kevin


----------



## jrtroo

Just a different shape.


----------



## b_scott

quick clear code. never see them again.


----------



## Fofer

b_scott said:


> quick clear code. never see them again.


Doesn't that also turn off the timeline bar, though?


----------



## b_scott

b_scott said:


> tweak it for hours? what?
> 
> As for ads on playback - just do the "Select Play Select Pause Select" trickplay and the bar/ads will instantly go away when paused.





Fofer said:


> (so will the timeline, FWIW)





Fofer said:


> Doesn't that also turn off the timeline bar, though?


Yeah, we've been through this..


----------



## Fofer

b_scott said:


> Yeah, we've been through this..


Well, turning the TV off will also remove the ad. Except some of us want to see what's on the screen. And some of us want to see the timeline. So it's worth mentioning that caveat when you offer up the "quick clear code" as some kind of "solution."

And if we've "been though this," why post the same suggestion again, when all someone's done to bump this thread is ask if the ads are a different shape? No one's asked recently how to get rid of them.


----------



## b_scott

Fofer said:


> Well, turning the TV off will also remove the ad. Except some of us want to see what's on the screen. And some of us want to see the timeline. So it's worth mentioning that caveat when you offer up the "quick clear code" as some kind of "solution."
> 
> And if we've "been though this," why post the same suggestion again, when all someone's done to bump this thread is ask if the ads are a different shape? No one's asked recently how to get rid of them.


posting about them at all is stating they are annoying, which in turn leads me to say how to get rid of them. I still don't understand why anyway needs a static timeline on their screen.

I could ask you the same about why you'd post the same thing again. *shrug*


----------



## Fofer

b_scott said:


> posting about them at all is stating they are annoying


not really. kbmb was just asking if the these longer, shorter shaped ads are new.



b_scott said:


> I still don't understand why anyway needs a static timeline on their screen.


Then why does the timeline exist at all?

Some folks like to see where they are in the program (how much time is left) when they pause.


----------



## nooneuknow

b_scott said:


> I still don't understand why anyway needs a static timeline on their screen.


I don't understand how anybody is OK with NOT having one. I'd use the "quick clear" code, if it didn't take that away. It's also not "static". It's "linear" and "dynamic", and goes away without action, but can be cleared with ....gasp... the "clear" button.

I also like closed-captions, which some people can't stand, if I have them on.

P.S. I'm not one who complains about the ads (haven't for a long time, anyway).


----------



## moyekj

With "quick clear" code activated you can still bring up the play bar on demand simply by pressing the Play button to get a quick glance at where you are, so it's not like enabling that code destroys the play bar completely.


----------



## nooneuknow

moyekj said:


> With "quick clear" code activated you can still bring up the play bar on demand simply by pressing the Play button to get a quick glance at where you are, so it's not like enabling that code destroys the play bar completely.


That brief flash is too quick to be of any use to me. But, you are correct that it's not entirely gone, and my wording might imply otherwise.


----------



## steve614

nooneuknow said:


> That brief flash is too quick to be of any use to me.


Yeah, with the newer Tivos, the timeline bar still only displays briefly, while on older Tivos, it stays up for 3-4 seconds.


----------



## blacknoi

I just noticed the new bar Monday.

I prefer this new wider but shorter ad bar personally (reminds me of the S3 implementation).

Of course I'd prefer no ad bar but between the taller, less wide version and the version they have going now, I'll take the current one.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select is the first thing I do after a reboot ever since Tivo started using the much bigger, hideous pause ads. It's also an easy way to discover when your box has rebooted since it has to be enabled after every boot.

The only real drawback I've seen is that you lose the timeline bar when doing a big FF/REW skip to get to (say) the end of a show, but you can always just keep hitting FF/REW to see where you are before stopping.


----------



## eboydog

It's is unfortunate that Tivo feels they must include ads in their interface, after all wasn't that the main feature of Tivo was to avoid the commercials while watching TV?


----------



## jrtroo

I hope we have another, long and drawn out discussion on this. Can we make this thread 10 pages long? HA


----------



## Fofer

eboydog said:


> It's is unfortunate that Tivo feels they must include ads in their interface, after all wasn't that the main feature of Tivo was to avoid the commercials while watching TV?


To be fair: an on-screen static text ad when you pause is preferable to many 30-second commercials, littered throughout a broadcast, with audio and video that you can't skip.



jrtroo said:


> I hope we have another, long and drawn out discussion on this. Can we make this thread 10 pages long? HA


You do know you can ignore this thread, right? Or just not click on it?


----------



## kbmb

jrtroo said:


> Just a different shape.


What an absolutely awesome reply....one of the best I've ever gotten on TCF. Thank you for confirming that it's a different shape 

I do love that in the 16 replies since my post, only 1 person actually came close to what I originally asked. Man I love the internet 

Since I posted I do see someone else started a new thread confirming my original question as to whether these are new if anyone cares:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=517299

-Kevin


----------



## jrtroo

OK. No, just a different shape. "Just" is the operating piece. There is nothing different than that. I'm glad I did not need to indicate that such shape is a rectangle. 

So you are complaining that I answered your question? Weird.


----------



## jrtroo

Fofer said:


> You do know you can ignore this thread, right? Or just not click on it?


And you know that "HA" and a "" mean joke, right?! I don't care how long this thread goes, but I don't care about ads either.


----------



## LoadStar

eboydog said:


> It's is unfortunate that Tivo feels they must include ads in their interface, after all wasn't that the main feature of Tivo was to avoid the commercials while watching TV?


No. The main feature was and still is being able to time-shift programming.


----------



## b_scott

Fofer said:


> not really. kbmb was just asking if the these longer, shorter shaped ads are new.
> 
> Then why does the timeline exist at all?
> 
> Some folks like to see where they are in the program (how much time is left) when they pause.


because if you hit the play button, it pops up for reference if you need to know how far along it is. It's not like you know where the commercials are going to be, so having it during FF/RWD is pointless. You hit play when you see the show.



nooneuknow said:


> That brief flash is too quick to be of any use to me. But, you are correct that it's not entirely gone, and my wording might imply otherwise.


what? it stays on for a good 5-10 seconds if you hit play.


----------



## b_scott

nooneuknow said:


> I don't understand how anybody is OK with NOT having one. I'd use the "quick clear" code, if it didn't take that away. It's also not "static". It's "linear" and "dynamic", and goes away without action, but can be cleared with ....gasp... the "clear" button.


I'm talking about static when you pause. It's a static image, that could possible be bad for image retention if you pause long enough since it's so solid and bright.



Fofer said:


> To be fair: an on-screen static text ad when you pause is preferable to many 30-second commercials, littered throughout a broadcast, with audio and video that you can't skip.


Even more preferable is no ads on a box you pay a premium for to own, not rent, and you have to pay monthly on top of that as well.


----------



## aaronwt

Only the cable company box you pay a premium for. The TiVo costs much less.


----------



## alleybj

Can someone point me to instructions on how to use the quick clear code? I seem to just end up triggering and selecting the ads rather than deleting them. Thanks


----------



## moyekj

alleybj said:


> Can someone point me to instructions on how to use the quick clear code? I seem to just end up triggering and selecting the ads rather than deleting them. Thanks


 Play back an existing recording on your TiVo, then while it's playing enter following remote sequence in quick succession:
Select,Play,Select,Pause,Select


----------



## alleybj

When I do that it pauses the video, the ad pulls up and then I select the ad; any thoughts?


----------



## moyekj

alleybj said:


> When I do that it pauses the video, the ad pulls up and then I select the ad; any thoughts?


 While ad is showing hide it by pressing down arrow, then resume play, press clear button, then enter the sequence above.


----------



## b_scott

aaronwt said:


> Only the cable company box you pay a premium for. The TiVo costs much less.


cable DVR costs about 14.99 a month. Tivo costs about $14.99 a month. I'm not talking about your multi multi multi discounts since you have something like 7, right? Just talking base new user cost per month.


----------



## moyekj

b_scott said:


> cable DVR costs about 14.99 a month. Tivo costs about $14.99 a month. I'm not talking about your multi multi multi discounts since you have something like 7, right? Just talking base new user cost per month.


 I think he's talking about over the long run, if you get lifetime vs perpetually paying monthly as is case with cable company, and I think he also factors in selling older units on eBay to recover some of the up front cost when upgrading to new models, etc. i.e. It CAN be cheaper over the long run, but that depends on several factors and won't apply to everyone. I always tell people that you shouldn't consider TiVo simply if your only goal is to save money, I say consider TiVo if you want a better experience than your cable company DVR can provide.


----------



## Bytez

This is lame of them to insert ads.


----------



## steve614

alleybj said:


> Can someone point me to instructions on how to use the quick clear code? I seem to just end up triggering and selecting the ads rather than deleting them. Thanks


The SPSPS code is one of the trickiest codes to enter. You need to find a program in the My Shows list that has a star ad when you pause. If the program you are trying to use doesn't have a star ad, the code will likely not take.
If you still have trouble, go into Showcases and see if there is a video ad there. If there is, play it and then enter the code. This is the most surefire way to enter the code and have it take.


----------



## steve614

b_scott said:


> what? it [the status bar] stays on for a good 5-10 seconds if you hit play.


Nope. I thought the same thing a while back and was quickly corrected.
The Roamios do not behave the same as the earlier models in this regard.


----------



## moyekj

b_scott said:


> what? it stays on for a good 5-10 seconds if you hit play.





steve614 said:


> Nope. I thought the same thing a while back and was quickly corrected.
> The Roamios do not behave the same as the earlier models in this regard.


 Just tried it right now on Roamio Pro and it stays up for about 3 seconds after selecting Play, which is still plenty of time to read it (I actually wish it would be shorter).


----------



## alleybj

steve614 said:


> The SPSPS code is one of the trickiest codes to enter. You need to find a program in the My Shows list that has a star ad when you pause. If the program you are trying to use doesn't have a star ad, the code will likely not take.
> If you still have trouble, go into Showcases and see if there is a video ad there. If there is, play it and then enter the code. This is the most surefire way to enter the code and have it take.


Got it. Thanks


----------



## javabird

These ads never really bothered me in the past, until lately. Every time I pause a show I see a popup for "Rosemary's Baby". I don't mind the ads for Bounty paper towels or Mother's Day flowers, which were innocuous, but I'm really starting to find the continual Rosemary's Baby ads offensive (and in poor taste, IMO).


----------



## b_scott

steve614 said:


> Nope. I thought the same thing a while back and was quickly corrected.
> The Roamios do not behave the same as the earlier models in this regard.


Got it. I'm still on Premieres



moyekj said:


> Just tried it right now on Roamio Pro and it stays up for about 3 seconds after selecting Play, which is still plenty of time to read it (I actually wish it would be shorter).


Thanks for checking. 3 seconds is plenty long enough to check position.


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## b_scott

moyekj said:


> I think he's talking about over the long run, if you get lifetime vs perpetually paying monthly as is case with cable company, and I think he also factors in selling older units on eBay to recover some of the up front cost when upgrading to new models, etc. i.e. It CAN be cheaper over the long run, but that depends on several factors and won't apply to everyone. I always tell people that you shouldn't consider TiVo simply if your only goal is to save money, I say consider TiVo if you want a better experience than your cable company DVR can provide.


sure, but for the average user - aka my parents who didn't want to front $700 for a DVR all at once - it's the same cost a month.


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## AdManTheLabRat

We lease our TiVo boxes from RCN and we pay RCN a premium for this service. Our RCN Premium Quad4 Tuning DVR did not show any adds. We upgrade to the TiVo service so we could play YouTube and NetFlix videos on our TV (It took several years for RCN to drop BluckBoster and provide NetFlix). Now that we got a new TV with an HDMI port we added ChromeCast. Since we already had and still have a NetFlix streaming account. We are going to vote with our Dollar$, we too are at the "Thin Mint Line". Since we have the option to downgrade back to a Quad4 Tuning DVR and after being with TiVo for 2+ years we are now seriously considering that either TiVo ditches ANY & ALL ADS or lose our revenue forever. Dropping the Premium TiVo service will save us money. Foolishly we thought we were paying a PREMIUM for NO ADS. The ball is in TiVo's court now and the clock is ticking...


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## astrohip

AdManTheLabRat said:


> Dropping the Premium TiVo service will save us money.


Life is a compromise. And every decision contains trade-offs. I'll pay more for valet parking, but not have to walk a mile to get my car. Or pay $50/bag, and not have to schlep it on the plane. Or save money by not paying for cable, Internet, TVs or anything consumer electronic related. But forgo the pleasures they bring. *Everything *is a trade-off.

So... does the benefit of having a TiVo as your DVR outweigh the cost? If it doesn't, drop it.


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## aaronwt

Any Ads on the Tivos are not going away. They have been there for many years so I see no reason why they would go away. At least they are unobtrusive. They have never been in my face or prevented me from doing anything on my TiVos. And I have also received coupons for products that my GF has used. And also if you consider the Discover Bar as advertising. Then I have found shows over the years from the Discovery bar that I would have otherwise not encountered.


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## b_scott

unless you use the QCC, the ads are right in your face every time you pause.


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## moyekj

And even with QCC (SPSPS) set which I use, the "keep or delete" prompt is affected by a second or two populating some stupid commercial as part of the dialog before it becomes functional, which I hardly consider unobtrusive.


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## aaronwt

b_scott said:


> unless you use the QCC, the ads are right in your face every time you pause.


The entire screen could be an ad and over 95% of the time it wouldn't matter in my use. Since when I pause it is because I am doing something else and not looking at the tv.


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## Fofer

aaronwt said:


> The entire screen could be an ad and over 95% of the time it wouldn't matter in my use. Since when I pause it is because I am doing something else and not looking at the tv.


I'm still looking at the screen when I pause, even for a brief moment. So yeah, the ad "matters." That's why they put it there.


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## FitzAusTex

Clearly everyone makes different use of their TVs. I pause for two main reasons. First is because I'm actively stopping my viewing for some period of time. Second is because I want to review some information on the screen more closely (sports scores, fine print, etc). I do the second tens to 100s of times per day. Sorta silly that Tivo made such a pretty thin bar at the bottom to then junk it up with the pause ads. Aesthetically the new thinner pause ads are not nearly as ugly as the old ones, but it is still jarring to so randomly have these appear.

From a premium product perspective, I find them offensive. They remind me of the free apps on my phone, and I hate ads on my phone apps, so I pay for ad-free version. Pretty sure I'd gladly pay for an ad-free version of tivo. 

I realize they are not going away, and are actually becoming more prevalent. Since they're here to stay, I at least am happier that they are advertising TV shows, because that seems more germain to a dvr than offering me $1 off Bounty and Charmin for the 10,000 time.


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## jrtroo

I don't see how they are more prevalent, how so? You are welcome to be offended, but it is what it is. Nothing new here, as described a million times in this thread.


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## b_scott

aaronwt said:


> The entire screen could be an ad and over 95% of the time it wouldn't matter in my use. Since when I pause it is because I am doing something else and not looking at the tv.


Half the time I pause, it's because I want to look at a still frame of the picture.


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## FitzAusTex

jrtroo said:


> I don't see how they are more prevalent, how so? You are welcome to be offended, but it is what it is. Nothing new here, as described a million times in this thread.


 When they displayed offering coupons or product discounts, they were showing up maybe on 5 to 10% of the programs I was watching. For the 2 week period prior to mothers day, they were on 100% of every program I tuned to. Lately since they've begun ads for tv shows, I'd say they're on 30 to 40% of the programs I watch, which I consider more prevalent than the previous 5 to 10%. (and I wonder if the networks are going to intervene when the tivo shows an ad for a Showtime show on an HBO channel. I've seen many instances of ads for competing networks this past month)


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## jrtroo

FitzAusTex said:


> When they displayed offering coupons or product discounts, they were showing up maybe on 5 to 10% of the programs I was watching. For the 2 week period prior to mothers day, they were on 100% of every program I tuned to. Lately since they've begun ads for tv shows, I'd say they're on 30 to 40% of the programs I watch, which I consider more prevalent than the previous 5 to 10%. (and I wonder if the networks are going to intervene when the tivo shows an ad for a Showtime show on an HBO channel. I've seen many instances of ads for competing networks this past month)


I see, your context is very small. The frequency over time is similar to that which I have seen on a Premiere and a THD over 3 and 5 years previously.


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## FitzAusTex

jrtroo said:


> I see, your context is very small. The frequency over time is similar to that which I have seen on a Premiere and a THD over 3 and 5 years previously.


 So tivo bounces from 5 to 10% up to 30 to 40% back to 5 to 10% and at holidays up to 100%? Guess I'll just have to deal with it as long as I keep their service.


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## aaronwt

b_scott said:


> Half the time I pause, it's because I want to look at a still frame of the picture.


Less than 5% of the time for me. And even if an ad is is the way. I just need to hit down on the D-Pad and it will be gone for the rest of the recording.


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## dbattaglia001

I much prefer a few pop-up ads here and there (that are easy to ignore / clear) than the alternative of a higher cost to the service.


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## MHunter1

moyekj said:


> the "keep or delete" prompt is affected by a second or two populating some stupid commercial before it becomes functional


To avoid the ad, I've gotten into the habit of pressing Replay a few times when the "keep or delete" dialog pops up then Pause-Left-Clear to delete the program. This has become such a routine part of my "muscle memory" that the ads don't bother me -- because I don't see them!


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## Fofer

dbattaglia001 said:


> I much prefer a few pop-up ads here and there (that are easy to ignore / clear) than the alternative of a higher cost to the service.


And I'm saddened that it's presented as an either-or choice that we essentially have no say in. TiVo *could* choose to make less money and protect the overall user experience, in order to earn a better reputation for having a superior product, which could (ostensibly) eventually increase their number of subscribers...

But obviously that ship has sailed. Seems to me like TiVo's grasping at straws and doing whatever they can to make an easy buck any way they can slice it.


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## Bytez

They should lower the fees if they decide to show ads!!


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## slowbiscuit

Gotta love a good dead horse beating, Tivo doesn't care.


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## Fofer

I doubt TiVo cares and I doubt they're even reading here. Yet we vent and commiserate because it makes us feel better. Don't like it? No ones forcing you to read it.


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## slowbiscuit

Sure, especially Tivo.  If they cared what we think they would've never started them in the first place, or they would've offered a higher-priced set of plans that were ad-free. Along with the ability to get rid of the worthless Discovery Bar, natch.


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## Fofer

Indeed. One of TiVo's biggest blunders ever was introducing a Discovery Bar that relied on an internet connection for refreshed ad content. And with a intermittent or broken internet connection, the DVR's entire UI was slow and/or non-functional. WTF were they thinking? Usually when people's internet goes down at home, the first distraction they turn to is the TV.


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## aaronwt

Fofer said:


> Indeed. One of TiVo's biggest blunders ever was introducing a Discovery Bar that relied on an internet connection for refreshed ad content. And with a intermittent or broken internet connection, the DVR's entire UI was slow and/or non-functional. WTF were they thinking? Usually when people's internet goes down at home, the first distraction they turn to is the TV.


I go for recorded content. Either from my servers or my TiVos. The TiVos had no problem with recorded content with the internet connection down.


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## Fofer

There was a time I recall that if the internet was down, I couldn't navigate the TiVo UI on my Premiere at all -- I couldn't even initiate playback of recorded content. The issue was discussed here.

I've a feeling it's been fixed by now. It'd have to be, otherwise TiVo would be an even bigger laughingstock.


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## b_scott

moyekj said:


> And even with QCC (SPSPS) set which I use, the "keep or delete" prompt is affected by a second or two populating some stupid commercial as part of the dialog before it becomes functional, which I hardly consider unobtrusive.


yes, this is the most intrusive of anything. My mother actually thought her remote was breaking before I realized what was going on.


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## moyekj

b_scott said:


> yes, this is the most intrusive of anything. My mother actually thought her remote was breaking before I realized what was going on.


 Yes I'm affected all the time by this. It used to be a quick succession of button presses to delete show after you are done watching. Now, half the time I go through the usual muscle memory sequence my button presses are ignored until the dialog becomes functional and responsive to button presses.

I should try and re-train myself to use following sequence to delete a show I just finished watching instead to avoid the above issue completely (and as a bonus skip the annoying commercial):
Pause, Left, Clear

Using Pause before Left prevents the "keep or delete" dialog from showing up at all.

Since above sequence uses Pause and I have SPSPS enabled I still get a brief instant of a Pause ad, so it's not perfect, but better.


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