# Solid Signal $99 Premiere $9.99 monthly service (No cable cards)



## kcmike (Feb 2, 2006)

I got an email from Solid Signal this morning. They have a special for a new Tivo Premiere for $99, and monthly service at 50% off for $9.99 month. Not valid with Cable Cards.

http://www.solidsignal.com/p/?p=3823&utm_campaign=email_tivobanner&utm_medium=email&utm_source=banner&location=01

Terms:
To qualify for the $9.99 a month TiVo Service you just need to purchase a TiVo Premiere, and sign up for a 1-year TiVo Service 11-15-11, using the activation code: Antenna
|
**Service Bundle Offer for Antenna Owners: Save 50% off TiVo service (regular price $19.99) when you purchase a TiVo Premiere box for $99.99 and sign up for a new 1-year monthly service subscription commitment to the service at $9.99 per month, plus tax (renews monthly after 1 year at the same rate). Discount on TiVo Service pricing available for antenna customers only. Use of a CableCARD decoder will result in your monthly service fee being raised to the standard rate of $19.99/mo plus tax. Early termination fee and terms and conditions apply. See sales associate and tivo.com for complete details. Offer valid for TiVo Service activations on TiVo Premiere boxes through 11/15/11. TiVo reserves the right to terminate this promotion at any time without notice.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

kcmike said:


> I got an email from Solid Signal this morning. They have a special for a new Tivo Premiere for $99, and monthly service at 50% off for $9.99 month. Not valid with Cable Cards.
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/p/?p=3823&utm_campaign=email_tivobanner&utm_medium=email&utm_source=banner&location=01
> 
> ...


I got that Solid Signal email too. Maybe TiVo sees the OTA-only market as growing. I certainly hope that's true. With the advent of ATSC digital broadcasting, this should be a golden age for Over-The-Air television, if we can just keep Congress from taking away any more blocks of broadcast TV frequencies to give them to special interest groups or sell them for alternative uses.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

It sounds like this is a Solid Signal promotion - but I wonder how they would know if you had a Cable Card installed?

I am not saying that the TiVo systems cannot identify if a Cable Card is or is not installed if queried, but I am highly dubious that their billing system is integrated with the configuration system in any way.

Interesting


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## stahta01 (Dec 23, 2001)

bradleys said:


> It sounds like this is a Solid Signal promotion - but I wonder how they would know if you had a Cable Card installed?
> 
> I am not saying that the TiVo systems cannot identify if a Cable Card is or is not installed if queried, but I am highly dubious that their billing system is integrated with the configuration system in any way.
> 
> Interesting


The channel lineup changes; would not be the hard to see what lineup you are using.

Tim S.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I agree that TiVo can identify if you are using a Cable Card - frankly they probably have a lot easier meathod than the channel line up. Assume everything you can see on your system page they can see as well.

My doubt is that they have that information linked to the billing system. It may seem like a simple leap - but it isn't.

More likely this would have to be a manual check / process in order to validate your order status.

If I were a betting man... After 90 days it isn't going to matter if you have a cable card installed or not. Just sayin


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

That's a hot looking deal. I wish there was a way to do it with a TivoHD. I'd like to get that $9.99 rate on a THD rather than a Premiere.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Why in the world would TiVo care one way or the other if you're using a cable card or not as long as you buy the hardware and pay them every month for the service?

Are they saving a fortune on cable card CSR calls on the Premiere owners who are strictly OTA?

Is this some backdoor way for TiVo to try to, in a very, very small way, screw the cable companies?

Do they have warehouses and warehouses full of unsold Premieres they need to move without doing it in a way that makes it public knowledge that they have warehouses and warehouses full of unsold Premieres that they need to move, or doing it in a way (deep discounts) that will enrage people who've already bought and subscription committed?

Is it not so much a matter of a hardware backlog/overstock as it is a need to get more subscribers at half price as opposed to not having them at all and therefore getting no money from them?

Is TiVo in even worse shape financially than previously thought?

What if you want to get this and use it on analog cable?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

unitron said:


> Why in the world would TiVo care one way or the other if you're using a cable card or not as long as you buy the hardware and pay them every month for the service?
> 
> Are they saving a fortune on cable card CSR calls on the Premiere owners who are strictly OTA?
> 
> Is this some backdoor way for TiVo to try to, in a very, very small way, screw the cable companies?


I'm sure it is just a promotion to raise awareness of the OTA abilities of the box. It isn't unusual for TiVo to try different plans/promotions to attract users. I highly doubt the costs involved for OTA users is much different (albeit, they probably do use less support resources) nor is this plan a way to upset cable companies.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> I got that Solid Signal email too. Maybe TiVo sees the OTA-only market as growing.


Since cable companies are losing subscribers I would guess OTA users are growing. (combined with internet streaming)


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## stahta01 (Dec 23, 2001)

unitron said:


> Why in the world would TiVo care one way or the other if you're using a cable card or not as long as you buy the hardware and pay them every month for the service?


Could be trying to see if there is a good market for only OTA TiVos before doing much pre-production work.

Tim S.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

unitron said:


> Why in the world would TiVo care one way or the other if you're using a cable card or not as long as you buy the hardware and pay them every month for the service?
> 
> Do they have warehouses and warehouses full of unsold Premieres they need to move without doing it in a way that makes it public knowledge that they have warehouses and warehouses full of unsold Premieres that they need to move, or doing it in a way (deep discounts) that will enrage people who've already bought and subscription committed?
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure that Tivo boxes are sold at a loss, with capital re-couped on the subscriptions.

That being written, the market isn't sweet for selling a Tivo box and charging $20 per month for OTA listings. So, they do this half price deal for OTA users.

Can they check? Sure. How? No idea. If it's tied to guide data, then there is your Achilles's heel.

Cheers!
-Doug


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

Interesting.

I have a premier being used as a dumb terminal at the moment (not subscribed but has a cable card in it).

For $9.99/month I'd add it to my account. The $14.99 they want for the MSD? Priced too high for me.

Oh, its on slickdeals now

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=46157&t=3235831


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

dstoffa said:


> Can they check? Sure. How? No idea. If it's tied to guide data, then there is your Achilles's heel.


Yesterday I online chatted with TiVo regarding a few issues and asked if I could take advantage of the antenna promotion and his instant response was _we could honor that promotion as I see you are using OTA_ (only).

My take is it's a what the market will bear promotion. Most people with OTA only aren't going to pop for $20 a month for service. $10 might be another story. Why isn't cable included? Well, typically a cable DVR is closer to $20 so that's what the market will bear. Why not $10 for everyone? That's simple. It wouldn't be $10 if everyone was being charged the same... they are looking to increase revenues not drop them.

If you want to look into various prices for the same service try looking at Amazon. Based on the day of week, time of day, where you are located, what type of customer you are there will often be different pricing (for the same item). In the long run they want (or need) x number of dollars and how they are obtained is largely influenced by the market itself.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Charles R said:


> My take is it's a what the market will bear promotion. Most people with OTA only aren't going to pop for $20 a month for service. $10 might be another story. Why isn't cable included? Well, typically a cable DVR is closer to $20 so that's what the market will bear. Why not $10 for everyone? That's simple. It wouldn't be $10 if everyone was being charged the same... they are looking to increase revenues not drop them.


Yes, everybody knows that cable subscribers are used to getting slammed on pricing (although they do get a lot more channels). OTA viewers tend to be more price-sensitive.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

unitron said:


> Why in the world would TiVo care one way or the other if you're using a cable card or not as long as you buy the hardware and pay them every month for the service?
> 
> Are they saving a fortune on cable card CSR calls on the Premiere owners who are strictly OTA?


I'd assume there's a fixed cost per channel to assemble and verify the guide data so an OTA customer who recieves a small number of channels could represent a saving over a cable customer who recieves 100's 


unitron said:


> What if you want to get this and use it on analog cable?


No Idea. But since all OTA is digital you would need to select a cable lineup which Tivo do have on their central servers since tivo.com can show you your current guide data.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

petew said:


> I'd assume there's a fixed cost per channel to assemble and verify the guide data so an OTA customer who recieves a small number of channels could represent a saving over a cable customer who recieves 100's


I believe TiVo's biggest cost with Guide data is the license fee it pays to Tribune. This is most likely done on a per user basis, so the size of the lineup is probably not a factor in that cost. However, I do figure they factor in support costs and OTA users are bound to use much less of TiVo's support resources than a cablecard user.

In the end, I doubt TiVo is factoring any type of savings directly to OTA users, but are more likely using this promotion to gain new users.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

rainwater said:


> In the end, I doubt TiVo is factoring any type of savings directly to OTA users, but are more likely using this promotion to gain new users.


Remember, the boxes are sold at a loss, and Tivo needs the subscriptions to make that money back. The licensing cost of delivering the guide data is less than a tenth of their monthly *service* charge.

OTA users are not likely to spend $20 per month for OTA listing. There is a reason they are using OTA in the first place.

So, by reducing the cost of the *service* to $10 / month, they make the purchase more appealing to the frugal OTA user. The only problem is, they now need that subscriber to subscribe for a longer period of time in order to recoup their front-end losses on the box itself. So, instead of a 1-2 year wait for ROI with a cable user, they need to wait 2-4 years with an OTA user. Their goal is to make money.

I am certain that they wouldn't offer the deal if they couldn't make money on it in the long run. The licensing fee anyone can pay for guide data from Schedules Direct is $20 per year. You can bet that Tivo pays WAY less that that per user for the data...

Remember, OTA only users can pick up a DTV Pal (CM something or other now) DVR now for $300 all in. If these same users had to buy a Tivo plus one year of service, they are already paying MORE for the Tivo (and would still have to pay going forward) than the DTV Pal. Why would an OTA user buy a Tivo? Right, they wouldn't, expect for the great interface. The General Population doesn't care as much as we about that.....

Cheers!
-Doug


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## Volken2000 (May 22, 2006)

bradleys said:


> It sounds like this is a Solid Signal promotion - but I wonder how they would know if you had a Cable Card installed?
> 
> I am not saying that the TiVo systems cannot identify if a Cable Card is or is not installed if queried, but I am highly dubious that their billing system is integrated with the configuration system in any way.
> 
> Interesting


When I had a CableCard installed the guided set-up was repeated and it asked weather I had analog or digital cable and I put analog with digital and it then asked if I had a cable card so I guess thats where they find out if you have a cable card. Also under the system information screen there is a entry 'CableCARD: Slot 1:MCard active' so they may get that information too.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Well Solid Signal also sells 2 other OTA only DVRs and has a strong OTA focus. The deal only shows up on the Solid Signal site, I couldn't even find it on TiVo.com. 

So while someone maybe able to buy a TiVo someplace else and get this deal it appears to be designed for Solid Signal to use it to target their user base (I am a Solid Signal customer and also got the email). Which seems to indicate that TiVo believes Solid Signal's customer base gets to people that other forms of marketing being used by TiVo does not. 

Solid Signal's site also clearly states that the rate will continue at $9.99 after the year commitment period is over on a monthly bases. This may actually be a better deal than lifetime - certainly is if someone who doesn't qualify for MSD. 

Thanks,


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## Antharpar (Aug 24, 2011)

I just switched from ota to cable. Have 2 premieres already looking to add another. This might be a cheaper way to get MRV. Buying a new premiere putting it as antenna only would save cablecard rental and 5.00 off regular msd rate. Most of my cable channels are not copy protected.

Do you guys thinks that would work?


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Has anyone activated a Premiere on this OTA only deal that was not purchased at Solid Signal? I'd like to pick one up locallay and save the time and cost of shipping. Suppose I'll just try. If it does not work, I can just return the unit.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

Antharpar said:


> I just switched from ota to cable. Have 2 premieres already looking to add another. This might be a cheaper way to get MRV. Buying a new premiere putting it as antenna only would save cablecard rental and 5.00 off regular msd rate. Most of my cable channels are not copy protected.
> 
> Do you guys thinks that would work?


Don't see why it would not work?


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

jcthorne said:


> Has anyone activated a Premiere on this OTA only deal that was not purchased at Solid Signal?


Worked like a champ when I tried it.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Charles R said:


> Worked like a champ when I tried it.


Great! Think I will pick up Tivo #2 on the way home from work this evening.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

I wish I had known this deal before I ordered a refurb from TiVo. I'm too late to cancel my order, but it would save me $10 over the course of the year.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

CrashHD said:


> That's a hot looking deal. I wish there was a way to do it with a TivoHD. I'd like to get that $9.99 rate on a THD rather than a Premiere.


TiVo does offer this deal on a TiVoHD if you have MSD. I just entered the service code for my unsubscribed TiVo and checked. It is not limited to OTA only.



> Select your TiVo service payment plan below:
> 
> Congratulations, based on your account status, you qualify for Tivo's Multi-Service Discount.
> 
> ...


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

Has anyone done this deal with an HD antenna and SD cable without a cablecard? The fine print makes it sound like this will work without issue...

_**Service Bundle Offer for Antenna Owners: Save 50% off TiVo service (regular price $19.99) when you purchase a TiVo Premiere box for $99.99 and sign up for a new 1-year monthly service subscription commitment to the service at $9.99 per month, plus tax (renews monthly after 1 year at the same rate). Discount on TiVo Service pricing available for antenna customers only. Use of a CableCARD™ decoder will result in your monthly service fee being raised to the standard rate of $19.99/mo plus tax._

I just want to make sure before I screw it up... went out and bought a box at Best Buy tonight and will refuse shipment of box ordered from TiVo (see earlier post)


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## Logan1999 (Aug 25, 2011)

I did an online chat with one of the CSRs on the tivo.com website and I asked if you could use a cable line (no CableCARD, just coaxial cable from the wall) with this deal and he said that he wasn't certain, but he believes that if the TiVo pulls the guide and it maps to cable channels instead of antenna channels, then they would start charging you the $19.99, even though there is no CableCARD in the picture :-(

Don't know if that's legit or just a scare tactic.

EDIT: Can someone that has cable and TiVo service try this out? Use your coaxial cable and put it in the antenna input rather than the cable input and see if you can still get your unencrypted channels? Or does it have to be the cable input?


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

I wish I could find the blurb I posted above on TiVo's website. Once you subscribe it says nothing about what will nullify that discount code. From Solid Signal's site it seems to make it clear that if you use a CableCard Decoder you will be out of luck, nothing about analog cable.

I get about 10 channels with my HD antenna so I'm pretty good as is. This is just a backup TiVo and a means to transfer from my XL and HD units and watch in the bedroom. However, I'd like to record SD on this TiVo since it doesn't have as much HD recording space and I tend to be a TV hoarder ;-)


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

Logan1999 said:


> EDIT: Can someone that has cable and TiVo service try this out? Use your coaxial cable and put it in the antenna input rather than the cable input and see if you can still get your unencrypted channels? Or does it have to be the cable input?


ATSC != QAM

That being written, if you were to connect your cable company's COAX to the antenna input, in theory, the Tivo would only be able to tune NTSC on channels 2-13. There are some expecptions up at the high end of the cable band (NTSC Cable Channel 65 = NTSC UHF 14; cable 66 = UHF 15; etc...), but not much.

In a nutshell, your Tivo is not going to have guide data for the programming it will receive via the Antenna input if your plug in your cable company's COAX. If you tell your Tivo you are using OTA, then it's going to look for channels where they should be (ATSC, and NOT NTSC analog cable)... not where your cable company provides them.

Can Tivos actually accept input (and get guide data) from multiple sources like the old Replays used to (still) do? The last set of Replays had three inputs, and could accept a different source for each one (OTA, Cable, Sat) all at the same time. It would also get guide data for all three....

Cheers!
-Doug


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

dstoffa said:


> ATSC != QAM
> 
> That being written, if you were to connect your cable company's COAX to the antenna input, in theory, the Tivo would only be able to tune NTSC on channels 2-13. There are some expecptions up at the high end of the cable band (NTSC Cable Channel 65 = NTSC UHF 14; cable 66 = UHF 15; etc...), but not much.
> 
> ...


All of the digital tuner(T3, THD, & TP) TiVos have two coax inputs - One for antenna and one for cable. They can record two shows at once from any combination of Digital OTA, Digital Cable and Analog Cable. You have to have a CableCARD installed to get guide data for digital cable. If you have it connected to both cable and antenna. you get guide data for both cable and OTA.

Your post was amazing. First you make a (false) statement about the capabilities of a TiVo then ask a question that reveals that you don't really know what those capabilities are.

(I had a paragraph about "ATSC and QAM but I have no personal knowledge in that area and would just be repeating information from Wiki)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

HeatherA said:


> Has anyone done this deal with an HD antenna and SD cable without a cablecard? The fine print makes it sound like this will work without issue...


You can't record "SD cable without a cablecard", unless you mean MANUAL RECORDINGS on the unencrypted channels.. Doing that is worse than a non-subscription-based recorder, IMHO.

You may mean *analog* channels, and then yes, you might be able to do that (I don't know if this would violate the deal).. What people have quoted says cablecard though.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

mattack said:


> You can't record "SD cable without a cablecard", unless you mean MANUAL RECORDINGS on the unencrypted channels.. Doing that is worse than a non-subscription-based recorder, IMHO.
> 
> You may mean *analog* channels, and then yes, you might be able to do that (I don't know if this would violate the deal).. What people have quoted says cablecard though.


Sorry for the confusion... to me SD = Standard Def = Analog.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

For what its worth, I bought a second Tivo Premiere locally and set it up. Went to Tivo.com and registered it. The $9.99/month offer was valid and they offered it. Along with $399 MSD lifetime...... I paused, thought about payback time and residual value and ended up getting another lifetime sub. Besides, I hate additional monthly bills. Especially when times get difficult.

So we now have 2 lifetime Tivo Premieres. Because of an offer that I did not take in the end.

Now if they will just get streaming between the units working....


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

lpwcomp said:


> All of the digital tuner(T3, THD, & TP) TiVos have two coax inputs - One for antenna and one for cable. They can record two shows at once from any combination of Digital OTA, Digital Cable and Analog Cable. You have to have a CableCARD installed to get guide data for digital cable. If you have it connected to both cable and antenna. you get guide data for both cable and OTA.


The Poster (Logan1999) wanted to know (see EDIT) if they could split their cable coax into two, and connect one of the legs into the CABLE input (to record analog cable), and the OTHER into the ANTENNA input, so that their Tivo could record the HD Clear QAM feeds from their cable provider w/o a Cable Card through the ANTENNA feed.

How is the Tivo supposed to know that you've installed CABLE in the ANTENNA input?

As I wrote before, ATSC (what I assume the Tivo is expecting) on the ANTENNA input, is not the same as QAM (what the Tivo is expecting on the CABLE input). The only overlap in standards is what is left behind from analog days, where NTSC CABLE 2 = NTSC VHF 2, NTSC CABLE 3 = NTSC VHF 3, ... NTSC VHF 13 = NTSC CABLE 13. And it's only analog - no digitla. That's it. The digital protocol used by both systems is similar, but OTA (ATSC) requires morel overhead (error correction, interference) for broadcast transmission as compared to cable (QAM - encrypted or not) transmission. Cable is much more polished and less prone to outside effects. So, unless the input is EXPECTING one or the other, it really has no way of knowing what's connected to it.

Every HD TV I own asks, when I set it up, if I am using Terrestrial or Cable input. It doesn't "Auto Select" the protocol....



> Your post was amazing. First you make a (false) statement about the capabilities of a TiVo then ask a question that reveals that you don't really know what those capabilities are.


What false statement? If you try to connect a CABLE feed to the ANTENNA feed, how is the Tivo supposed to know this? If they were interchangeable, they'd be labeled RF1 and RF2 or something, not ANTENNA and CABLE, and the Tivo would auto-sense the input.

Considering that if a device has an ATSC tuner, it surely will have a NTSC tuner, IN THEORY, if your Tivo had guide data for an _analog_ broadcast channel between 2 and 13, and that channel was also being provided to end users on the same _analog_ cable channel 2 through 13, then the Tivo could be fooled into thinking that it was actually receiving an OTA signal, when in fact it is receiving a CABLE signal.

Cheers!
-Doug


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> For what its worth, I bought a second Tivo Premiere locally and set it up. Went to Tivo.com and registered it. The $9.99/month offer was valid and they offered it. Along with $399 MSD lifetime...... I paused, thought about payback time and residual value and ended up getting another lifetime sub. Besides, I hate additional monthly bills. Especially when times get difficult.
> 
> So we now have 2 lifetime Tivo Premieres. Because of an offer that I did not take in the end.
> 
> Now if they will just get streaming between the units working....


I have been using TiVo since 2000 and never paid a monthly bill for TiVo service, having purchased 3 lifetime subscriptions for various boxes, 2 are still active and the third for a DirecTV DVR with TiVo might still be valid if I went back to DirecTV. I am with you, I hate monthy bills for things like this and might have avoided TiVo altogether if I had no lifetime option. I almost regret not buying lifetime for my unsubscribed TiVoHD when it was $300 but having 3 of them with such an investment wasn't something I could get comfortable with since I don't know there will be much value for a TiVoHD if the Premiere continues to improve and leaves the TiVoHD in the dust. I decided to use the third unsubscribed as it is pretty useful in that manner, better than a single tuner without a 30 minute buffer. I even have a fourth one I found at a garage sale for parts in case either of my lifetime units break.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

dstoffa said:


> The Poster (Logan1999) wanted to know (see EDIT) if they could split their cable coax into two, and connect one of the legs into the CABLE input (to record analog cable), and the OTHER into the ANTENNA input, so that their Tivo could record the HD Clear QAM feeds from their cable provider w/o a Cable Card through the ANTENNA feed.
> 
> How is the Tivo supposed to know that you've installed CABLE in the ANTENNA input?
> 
> ...


You are correct that you can't split the cable and feed one to the Antenna in and one to Cable in and get anything useful. I apologize for indicating otherwise.

Your final paragraph indicated that you didn't know that a TiVo can accept input from 2 sources. It can. For the newer TiVos, that is Digital OTA and Cable(analog and digital). I am not sure if it is capable of receiving OTA analog. In the US, that is mostly irrelevant at this point.

ATSC is a set of standards. QAM is modulation scheme used by cable for digital channels. OTA uses 8VSB modulation. While QAM (mostly 256-QAM) is not currently in ATSC (it is part of another set of standards), it will probably be added at some point.

The Antenna feed can't tune to cable channels and once you tell the TiVo that you have an Antenna, you no longer even have the option to scan the cable for clear QAM.

To get guide data for digital cable channels, you must have a CableCARD installed. There is no way to get it for clear QAM. You may be able to do a combination of digital OTA and analog cable and get guide data for both. The number of analog cable channels is dropping all of the time (in Atlanta,it is down to 22) and will sooner or later drop to 0.

Bottom line, the "deal" that is the subject of this thread is not really a viable option if you plan to use cable.


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## Logan1999 (Aug 25, 2011)

dstoffa said:


> The Poster (Logan1999) wanted to know (see EDIT) if they could split their cable coax into two, and connect one of the legs into the CABLE input (to record analog cable), and the OTHER into the ANTENNA input, so that their Tivo could record the HD Clear QAM feeds from their cable provider w/o a Cable Card through the ANTENNA feed.


Not exactly what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. I did ask about sticking the "cable" line in the Antenna input, but not splitting and putting it in both inputs. I'm a Cox internet only subscriber and if you have internet you can also pick up all of the unencrypted QAM channels. The only ones I care about are the local HD broadcasts, so I was wondering if the Antenna input could tune those local HD channels even though it was a "cable" line and you did answer that in that input cannot resolve QAM channels.

So now the question becomes if you are using the cable input, but no CableCARD, could you still use this deal? The fine print seems like you'd be fine, because it only specifically mentions CableCARD as the disqualifying factor, but I'd hate to try it out only to get burned and bumped up to $20/mo with a 1 year contract when I'm paying $0 for my "cable."



lpwcomp said:


> To get guide data for digital cable channels, you must have a CableCARD installed. There is no way to get it for clear QAM. You may be able to do a combination of digital OTA and analog cable and get guide data for both. The number of analog cable channels is dropping all of the time (in Atlanta,it is down to 22) and will sooner or later drop to 0.
> 
> Bottom line, the "deal" that is the subject of this thread is not really a viable option if you plan to use cable.


I spoke with another TiVo rep that was much more helpful in explaining and now I get what you were saying James. He confirmed the coaxial cable input could pull in the QAM channels, but it can't map it correctly so the channel placement will be random and won't match the guide. So I would still need a CableCARD to use the TiVo service, which isn't going to happen. Cox wouldn't rent me a CableCARD since technically I'm not a cable subscriber, so I would need to add at least basic cable ($20, plus the card rental of $4), plus the $20 for TiVo, I'm not going to pay ~$45 a month to record local broadcasts! Oh well, the only thing I really needed live TV for was sports anyways, so I'll use use the $59 Premiere I picked up as a dumb terminal. Would have been nice to record CBS since they don't have much of their content available streaming, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Logan1999 said:


> Not exactly what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. I did ask about sticking the "cable" line in the Antenna input, but not splitting and putting it in both inputs. I'm a Cox internet only subscriber and if you have internet you can also pick up all of the unencrypted QAM channels. The only ones I care about are the local HD broadcasts, so I was wondering if the Antenna input could tune those local HD channels even though it was a "cable" line and you did answer that in that input cannot resolve QAM channels.
> 
> So now the question becomes if you are using the cable input, but no CableCARD, could you still use this deal? The fine print seems like you'd be fine, because it only specifically mentions CableCARD as the disqualifying factor, but I'd hate to try it out only to get burned and bumped up to $20/mo with a 1 year contract when I'm paying $0 for my "cable."
> 
> I spoke with another TiVo rep that was much more helpful in explaining and now I get what you were saying James. He confirmed the coaxial cable input could pull in the QAM channels, but it can't map it correctly so the channel placement will be random and won't match the guide. So I would still need a CableCARD to use the TiVo service, which isn't going to happen. Cox wouldn't rent me a CableCARD since technically I'm not a cable subscriber, so I would need to add at least basic cable ($20, plus the card rental of $4), plus the $20 for TiVo, I'm not going to pay ~$45 a month to record local broadcasts! Oh well, the only thing I really needed live TV for was sports anyways, so I'll use use the $59 Premiere I picked up as a dumb terminal. Would have been nice to record CBS since they don't have much of their content available streaming, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it


You actually could do manual recordings, even repeating recordings, of the "clear QAM" channels, you just won't get guide data. You may have to periodically do a rescan on the TiVo if your cable provider moves them around, but the assignment isn't as random as the TiVo CSR implies.


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## arex (Oct 18, 2007)

blacknoi said:


> I have a premier being used as a dumb terminal at the moment (not subscribed but has a cable card in it).


Could you elaborate on this? Does that just allow you to view/pause live TV and nothing more?


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

arex said:


> Could you elaborate on this? Does that just allow you to view/pause live TV and nothing more?


Yes, that's all. Nothing more.

Of course, when a new(or mfr refurbished) unit is first used, there is a short(5 or 5 days, or so), free trial period and is fully functional as a dvr(no internet or networking though). Any recordings made during the trial period are always there to be viewed.

Otherwise, its just a tuner with a 30 min buffer(pause, rw, ff). *No* guide data.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

arex said:


> Could you elaborate on this? Does that just allow you to view/pause live TV and nothing more?





dwit said:


> Yes, that's all. Nothing more.


On its own that is all it is, just dual tuners and buffer without program or guide information. I have used a Logitech Revue Google TV and unsubscribed TiVo together and the Logitech Revue provides some program and guide information that makes channel surfing work a lot better. I can see the current programs on the Revue, select what I want to watch and it will change the TiVo channel to that selected channel and switch the shared HDMI input to the TiVo. The TiVo HDMI input runs through the Revue after that and it is easy to switch back to the Revue, a single button push so switching back to the Revue to select another channel based on current programming is simple.

The Revue also adds a lot of other things that make living with an unsubscribed TiVo better, web browsing, Amazon Prime Instant Video, Netflix, Crackle and I would guess hundreds of other websites with streaming video. There is a thread at Google TV Forum.org with around 70 pages of suggested sites with free streaming. The Revue gets a lot of criticism but I love it and the added value to an unsubscribed TiVo is undeniable. With TiVo/Revue along with OTA and Blu-ray/DVD, I have left cable/satellite behind for the first time in decades and getting along great. I don't know about the complications added by trying to use an unsubscribed TiVo with clear QAM channels, I can't try that since I don't have cable.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Chris Gerhard said:


> TiVo does offer this deal on a TiVoHD if you have MSD. I just entered the service code for my unsubscribed TiVo and checked. It is not limited to OTA only.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The rates for all Tivos older than the Premiere (& XL) have not changed. 
The series 4 is the only series that is being charged the ridiculously high monthly rates


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

Just an FYI... Best Buy has a package right now where you buy an Antenna for $99 get the TiVo for free... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Long-Ra...0001&skuId=9999163500050001&st=tivo&lp=7&cp=1

I went and had my TiVo switched to this package since I had just purchased it last week. The antenna is nice and good if you want to post it outside of your house. There is no stand to use it indoors without mounting it. I'm still using my old Terk because I could not get a good signal hiding it anywhere in my room and it's not a something I want on display. Might have my husband look into mounting it outside somewhere or hold on to it until we need another OTA TiVo in action.

It's a decent little deal if you are looking to use a TiVo OTA.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

HeatherA said:


> Just an FYI... Best Buy has a package right now where you buy an Antenna for $99 get the TiVo for free... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Long-Ra...0001&skuId=9999163500050001&st=tivo&lp=7&cp=1
> 
> I went and had my TiVo switched to this package since I had just purchased it last week. The antenna is nice and good if you want to post it outside of your house. There is no stand to use it indoors without mounting it. I'm still using my old Terk because I could not get a good signal hiding it anywhere in my room and it's not a something I want on display. Might have my husband look into mounting it outside somewhere or hold on to it until we need another OTA TiVo in action.
> 
> It's a decent little deal if you are looking to use a TiVo OTA.


Buried in the fine print is a one year obligation at $19.99 a month.

Although I suppose you could buy this package and never subscribe the box and just save it for parts if you already have one.

Apparently the antenna by itself is regularly overpriced at $99.99 (It's just a passive antenna, no electronics, probably cost no more than $10 to manufacture)


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

unitron said:


> Buried in the fine print is a one year obligation at $19.99 a month.
> 
> Although I suppose you could buy this package and never subscribe the box and just save it for parts if you already have one.
> 
> Apparently the antenna by itself is regularly overpriced at $99.99 (It's just a passive antenna, no electronics, probably cost no more than $10 to manufacture)


I'm willing to bet a 1-year contract at any price will work. I'll see how it plays out since I have 45 days to return both TiVo and antenna.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

It's an excellent antenna.

I use the same one (with an amplifier since I split the signal between 2 Tivos)

Mine hangs off the side of my entertainment center, pointed out the window.

I get all my locals (transmitters 15-35 miles away) plus a couple of Charlotte stations (transmitters 60 miles away)



HeatherA said:


> Just an FYI... Best Buy has a package right now where you buy an Antenna for $99 get the TiVo for free... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Long-Ra...0001&skuId=9999163500050001&st=tivo&lp=7&cp=1
> 
> I went and had my TiVo switched to this package since I had just purchased it last week. The antenna is nice and good if you want to post it outside of your house. There is no stand to use it indoors without mounting it. I'm still using my old Terk because I could not get a good signal hiding it anywhere in my room and it's not a something I want on display. Might have my husband look into mounting it outside somewhere or hold on to it until we need another OTA TiVo in action.
> 
> It's a decent little deal if you are looking to use a TiVo OTA.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

HeatherA said:


> I'm willing to bet a 1-year contract at any price will work. I'll see how it plays out since I have 45 days to return both TiVo and antenna.


You may have 45 days to return the Tivo to BB, but after 30 days of subscribing to Tivo's service, you are obligated to finish/pay for the 12 months of service you agreed to when you subscribed.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> You may have 45 days to return the Tivo to BB, but after 30 days of subscribing to Tivo's service, you are obligated to finish/pay for the 12 months of service you agreed to when you subscribed.


No worries... I'm aware of that. I don't think it will be an issue that far out.

<Edit> I just spoke to someone at TiVo on the phone, and because I wasn't completely sure he was understanding me, I spoke with someone via web chat. Both told me that as long as I did not try to use the TiVo for anything other than Antenna the $9.99 would remain in place for a year. I very specifically asked about the free antenna and I even sent the link to the Best Buy deal and he verified for me that the Antenna discount remains in effect. I asked if the $19.99 was just standard subscription fee language and his answer was "exactly". I have saved the transcript so will fight it if the price goes up. I was a bit worried because under "My Account" -> "Change This Current Plan" on TiVo's site it shows:

Your current plan:
Monthly service
1 yr commitment
Plan rate $19.99
Antenna Offer

Can anyone else that's signed up for the "Antenna" $9.99 discount check their account and see if it says the same thing?

I'd appreciate it, because I will happily return the antenna and re-buy the TiVo if I need to before the 30 days are up.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

HeatherA said:


> No worries... I'm aware of that. I don't think it will be an issue that far out.
> 
> <Edit> I just spoke to someone at TiVo on the phone, and because I wasn't completely sure he was understanding me, I spoke with someone via web chat. Both told me that as long as I did not try to use the TiVo for anything other than Antenna the $9.99 would remain in place for a year. I very specifically asked about the free antenna and I even sent the link to the Best Buy deal and he verified for me that the Antenna discount remains in effect. I asked if the $19.99 was just standard subscription fee language and his answer was "exactly". I have saved the transcript so will fight it if the price goes up. I was a bit worried because under "My Account" -> "Change This Current Plan" on TiVo's site it shows:
> 
> ...


Based upon what your settings displays, it sounds like it has to enter TiVo's system as a full $19.99, but then the system credits you the $10.00. This is a very common way billing systems work tp put you at a lower subscription and it allows the billing system to simply remove the credit--instantly becoming a standard $19.99 subscription--if you use the TiVo for anything more than OTA without the system or a human having to create a new account or do it the long way 'round in the system. It is all automated this way and more simple for the billing system. IMHO.

Should you use the TiVo for more than OTA, I would bet the settings will display the same except that "Antenna Offer" would disappear. So, as long as "Antenna Offer" displays, you should be getting the $10 credit. IMHO.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> The rates for all Tivos older than the Premiere (& XL) have not changed.
> The series 4 is the only series that is being charged the ridiculously high monthly rates


Yes, I responded to the post where he wished the TiVoHD with OTA would qualify for the $9.95/month plan. I don't consider the Premiere pricing ridiculously high since the Premiere is sold at a loss and the monthly service is intended to recover the loss and hopefully make a profit. The business model has failed because unfortunately there is no significant market willing to pay the necessary price for a DVR. Satellite and cable make the profit on the TV service and can cover the loss on providing a DVR but TiVo has no way to benefit from that on their own.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

Series3Sub said:


> Based upon what your settings displays, it sounds like it has to enter TiVo's system as a full $19.99, but then the system credits you the $10.00. This is a very common way billing systems work tp put you at a lower subscription and it allows the billing system to simply remove the credit--instantly becoming a standard $19.99 subscription--if you use the TiVo for anything more than OTA without the system or a human having to create a new account or do it the long way 'round in the system. It is all automated this way and more simple for the billing system. IMHO.
> 
> Should you use the TiVo for more than OTA, I would bet the settings will display the same except that "Antenna Offer" would disappear. So, as long as "Antenna Offer" displays, you should be getting the $10 credit. IMHO.


I think you might be right. Thanks.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

Just an FYI, my 2nd month billed today and it was $9.99


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I have been using TiVo since 2000 and never paid a monthly bill for TiVo service, having purchased 3 lifetime subscriptions for various boxes, 2 are still active .


this helps answer my question of whether i buy lifetime or not with a premiere....even at 10 a month, after the 4 years, you are out money. I initially , after reading this thread, was considering the 10 a month but then thats 'wasted' money if you really do intend to make tivo a lifetime thing. and i do. ...i'm assuming the 10 dollar thing is just for those that cant do the 500 up front. But then again,if you are going from a 'pay service' to just OTA, you really can afford it. after i stop paying 80 a month for directv, that 500 is paid pretty quickly

have your boxes ever needed repair? thats what worries me after the 3 year extended runs out

but now i also wonder, what prevents someone from doing the monthly 20 dollar fee for just a month then upgrade to lifetime for 399 as an existing customer?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

The discount is actually a multi-service discount. IOW, there has to be more than one TiVo on your account in order to qualify.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

lpwcomp said:


> The discount is actually a multi-service discount. IOW, there has to be more than one TiVo on your account in order to qualify.


I only have this one service on my account and it is not a MSD


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

compnurd said:


> I only have this one service on my account and it is not a MSD


And how much would lifetime be? That is the discount that was referred to, not the Solid Signal OTA only deal.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

scandia101 said:


> The rates for all Tivos older than the Premiere (& XL) have not changed.
> The series 4 is the only series that is being charged the ridiculously high monthly rates





Chris Gerhard said:


> Yes, I responded to the post where he wished the TiVoHD with OTA would qualify for the $9.95/month plan.


Yes, I Know what you were responding to. The issue is that you called it a deal and it's not. It's just a regular rate that has been in effect for a few years now.


> I don't consider the Premiere pricing ridiculously high


I and many others do consider it to be a *ridiculously high subscription rate*. Having a good reason for it does not make it not a *ridiculously high subscription rate*.


> since the Premiere is sold at a loss and the monthly service is intended to recover the loss and hopefully make a profit.


They charge a *ridiculously high subscription rate* because they sell them for a ridiculously low price.


> The business model has failed because unfortunately there is no significant market willing to pay the necessary price for a DVR.


Could that be because most people of reasonable intelligence consider it to be a *ridiculously high subscription rate*? and btw, nice change up switching from Tivos to dvrs in general.


> Satellite and cable make the profit on the TV service and can cover the loss on providing a DVR but TiVo has no way to benefit from that on their own.


 Thus the attempt to make money by charging a *ridiculously high subscription rate* in all Premieres new and used.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Yes, I Know what you were responding to. The issue is that you called it a deal and it's not. It's just a regular rate that has been in effect for a few years now.


Deal doesn't only mean bargain or special price, it can just mean the terms of an agreement have been met. We have a deal, doesn't mean both parties got a great bargain or anything special. I understood his request to mean he wishes he could get the $9.95 per month deal for a TiVoHD with OTA and I only responded he can get that deal, not that it hasn't been available previously or that it is anything out of the ordinary, in fact it is just an ordinary, everyday deal. Deal can also mean bargain but like many words, it has many possible meanings.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

newsposter said:


> this helps answer my question of whether i buy lifetime or not with a premiere....even at 10 a month, after the 4 years, you are out money. I initially , after reading this thread, was considering the 10 a month but then thats 'wasted' money if you really do intend to make tivo a lifetime thing. and i do. ...i'm assuming the 10 dollar thing is just for those that cant do the 500 up front. But then again,if you are going from a 'pay service' to just OTA, you really can afford it. after i stop paying 80 a month for directv, that 500 is paid pretty quickly
> 
> have your boxes ever needed repair? thats what worries me after the 3 year extended runs out
> 
> but now i also wonder, what prevents someone from doing the monthly 20 dollar fee for just a month then upgrade to lifetime for 399 as an existing customer?


I have not had to repair my TiVoHDs yet but did replace hard drives in a couple of lifetime TiVos previously.


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## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

Has anyone been able to get the $9.99 deal and then get the $99 lifetime deal on their old Series 3 afterwards? I have 2 Series 3 that are on monthly and I'd like to get them on lifetime but I dunno if TiVo will go for it.


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