# 4K weirdness



## wcaspe (Sep 17, 2004)

Equipment
TV: Sony XBR 65X930D
Tivo: Bolt + (series 6, TCD849000)
Tivo software version 21.7.2.RC11-USC-11-849
Netflix reports the speed as 28.12Mbps. Network is 250 Mb external, wired internal.
I hava Denon X4200W reciever, however, that is not wired in the loop while I troubleshoot this.
TV is direct HDMI 12' cable to the Tivo. Cable is HDMI Premium certified. Have used 3 cables so far.
TV supports HDCP 2.2 on all ports
TV HDMI port is set to either "standard" or "enhanced". issue still repros.
Tivo reports HDCP 2.2 is enabled on the sys info screen
Auto for your TV includes: 1080p 60fps
Watching cable TV at 1080p works fine. This is one of those inquires into why this isn't working completely right.

Three issues:
1) my understanding is that Tivo's Auto video setting should have a listing for 4K 60fps if everything is working well?
2) Netflix will only show UHD (4K) options if I have 4K 60fps manually selected on the Tivo Video resolution menu. If the Tivo is set to Auto, I only get HD options in Netflix. When 4K 60fps is manually selected, my TV information reports the 4K stream correctly. Basically, when I manually set 4K video on the tivo, Netflix works as expected. Shouldn't Netflix work at 4K when Auto is set as well?
3) Amazon.. only broadcasts HD, no matter what I set the Tivo to. UHD is an option. When I hit "pause", Amazon says it is in HD. This is different if I run Amazon on the Amazon streaming application on the TV. UHD shows properly display UHD on pause.

I contacted Tivo. Tivo suggested that I contact Amazon, as the issue is with the Amazon application. I contact Amazon, and did not get anywhere. Amazon shows UHD just fine using the Amazon app on my TV, as well as on my laptop.

Any ideas?


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## wcaspe (Sep 17, 2004)

Quick update, this is definitely an issue with the Tivo.
I replaced the Tivo with a 4K Apple TV. I ran the same wiring, and even put the Denon X4200W reciever back in the loop.
The Apple TV reports that the wiring is fine. It has a wiring check. Runs in 4K HDR mode, no problem. Netflix and Amazon prime applications deliver content in 4K, no problem. Same wires, same receiver, same TV. I will update the case with Tivo, is it is obviously their hardware or software.


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

I have had a Tivo Bolt connected to a Vizio P series 4k TV for over 1 1/2 years and the Tivo Bolt is in auto display mode and I get UHD, HDR10 and Dolby Vision 4k shows available on Netflix in 4k using the cable that came with the Bolt without doing anything but just selecting the show and playing it. Sounds like to me the problem is your TV is not sending the proper capability info to the Tivo.


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## wcaspe (Sep 17, 2004)

rjrsouthwest said:


> I have had a Tivo Bolt connected to a Vizio P series 4k TV for over 1 1/2 years and the Tivo Bolt is in auto display mode and I get UHD, HDR10 and Dolby Vision 4k shows available on Netflix in 4k using the cable that came with the Bolt without doing anything but just selecting the show and playing it. Sounds like to me the problem is your TV is not sending the proper capability info to the Tivo.


Great idea to use the stock cable. It is not long enough for my application.

As a consumer, I am not sure that I care where the problem actually lies, it just needs to work. I think Tivo gets this concept.

I spent $180 in cables chasing a red herring. Sony XBR TV's are common. Apple seems to have figured out how to make it work. I refuse to understand why Tivo does not. I have owned Tivo products for years and multiple generations. Big fan. However, I will not hesitate to call out that they are failing here.

During this investigation, I could not find that there are differences between HDMI requirements for cables by HDMI versions. Clearly, cables are built differently. Some work, some don't. Could be materials, twists in the wire per foot, etc. The HDMI group came up with a certification system for testing cables to operate at high speed and 4K. Any cable with the HDMI Premium Certified Cable logo sticker should work fine for this application. This is not an expensive option, you can find cables certified by HDMI at Monoprice. Regardless of this, Apple 4K TV states that my cable plant is working fine.

Tivo needs to look into this problem and fix it. If it is indeed in the TV, I am sure that Sony has a big enough engineering department to help them figure it out.


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

Longer HDMI cables are more problematic and cause weird and strange scenarios to pop up with no explanation as to why. Seems like most of the people that have problems have longer cables or route through a receiver.

Has your Sony TV had the most recent firmware update? They tend to fix the reported problems as they roll out new firmware updates.

My Vizio TV also came with a special HDMI cable to avoid the problems that tend to pop up.


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## wcaspe (Sep 17, 2004)

rjrsouthwest said:


> Longer HDMI cables are more problematic and cause weird and strange scenarios to pop up with no explanation as to why. Seems like most of the people that have problems have longer cables or route through a receiver.
> 
> Has your Sony TV had the most recent firmware update? They tend to fix the reported problems as they roll out new firmware updates.
> 
> My Vizio TV also came with a special HDMI cable to avoid the problems that tend to pop up.


I tackled the cables first thing, based on what I read in this forum. I did a direct TV to Tivo cable connection with a 12', 15', 16' and 6' cable. Cable issues with HDMI that are distance related tend to start ~25'. The only specifications I could find from HDMI talked about bandwidth on the cable, and not actual cable construction. All of the cables I used claimed that they supported "high speed HDMI", and "the latest standard". Only one of the cables actually carried the HDMI Premium logo specification. All cables that I tried showed the same conditions on the Tivo that I mentioned earlier. All cables that I tried worked as expected with the Amazon Prime and Netflix applications using my 4K Apple TV, and now, my XBOX One X as well. If the Apple TV and the XBox are working as expected at 4K, I am inclined to believe my wiring plant is in good shape. I am currently running the Apple and Xbox through my Denon X4200W with zero issues. For the purposes of this test, I did do the direct connection as well. I went back to my 15' Amazon Basics HDMI cable, as it obviously works fine.

As far as the TV goes, I have kept my firmware up to date. I am currently running the firmware drop that Sony dated on 1/18/2018.

Tivo needs to make sure their product works with streaming. In my case, it does not. I do wonder how many other folks who have reported a similar situation are actually running on fine cables, and it is some sort of protocol or handshake issue. It is not unreasonable to expect Tivo to make this work. Microsoft and Apple seemed to be able to do it.

The cable that your TV came with is highly likely one that Vizio found to work, so they ship it. It would be nice if the HDMI group made a cable specification, such that any cable made to that spec would work. Instead, they offer a test on the back end. I found that old HDMI cables that I got back in the 1.1 days are carrying the 4K signal just fine. At the end of the day, this is a digital signal, the signal needs to get from one end to the other at the right electrical levels so that the receiving device can figure out the signal.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Have you searched for Amazon and 4k on the site (that funxtion is not the best). I habe seen several posts with amazon 4k, it appears they may have pulled that functionality from their app recently.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

rjrsouthwest said:


> I have had a Tivo Bolt connected to a Vizio P series 4k TV for over 1 1/2 years and the Tivo Bolt is in auto display mode and I get UHD, HDR10 and Dolby Vision 4k shows available on Netflix in 4k using the cable that came with the Bolt without doing anything but just selecting the show and playing it. Sounds like to me the problem is your TV is not sending the proper capability info to the Tivo.


When did the Netflix app on the Bolt start supporting Dolby Vision and HDR10?


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## rjrsouthwest (Feb 19, 2016)

NashGuy said:


> When did the Netflix app on the Bolt start supporting Dolby Vision and HDR10?


I was just stating that all the shows available on Netflix that are available in UHD, HDR10 and Dolby Vision stream in 4k with my Tivo Bolt in auto display mode, the HDR10 and Dolby Vision data streams are not passed to the TV but they display in 4k when in Auto mode. If I want to send those HDR10 and Dolby Vision streams I have to use the native smartcast Netflix app on the TV or cast from my phone or tablet.


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## wcaspe (Sep 17, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> Have you searched for Amazon and 4k on the site (that funxtion is not the best). I habe seen several posts with amazon 4k, it appears they may have pulled that functionality from their app recently.


I think the root of my issue is that the Tivo is not detecting 4K as an option when in Auto mode. I have to manually set it to 4K to get Netflix to co-operate. I understand that 4K should be working on Amazon as well, with Tivo.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

wcaspe said:


> I understand that 4K should be working on Amazon as well, with Tivo.


Based on all the posts in several different threads I've seen here lately, I'm not sure that the Amazon app on the Bolt does stream in 4K right now. Maybe. But as far as Netflix goes, yeah, you should be getting it in 4K from the Bolt. Something's off there for you.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rjrsouthwest said:


> I have had a Tivo Bolt connected to a Vizio P series 4k TV for over 1 1/2 years and the Tivo Bolt is in auto display mode and I get UHD, HDR10 and Dolby Vision 4k shows available on Netflix in 4k using the cable that came with the Bolt without doing anything but just selecting the show and playing it. Sounds like to me the problem is your TV is not sending the proper capability info to the Tivo.


How are you getting HDR10 and DOlby Vision from the Bolt? HAs the Bolt finally been updated to allow HDR?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

wcaspe said:


> I think the root of my issue is that the Tivo is not detecting 4K as an option when in Auto mode. I have to manually set it to 4K to get Netflix to co-operate. I understand that 4K should be working on Amazon as well, with Tivo.


Just don't use Auto. I don't use auto and have the resolutions I want manually selected. Everything works fine with UHD content.


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## wcaspe (Sep 17, 2004)

Talking with Tivo support now.. they are telling me the issue is that I am not using gold tipped cables....

Auto mode should work. In manual mode, I get flicker as I change channels. This product should work as intended.


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## wcaspe (Sep 17, 2004)

got disconnected on the last call. Got a second resolution which suggested to use gold tipped cables.. This one went a bit better, in that the support person is escalating my issue to engineering. FINALLY! Currently at 5 case numbers... Having a support email address where I can send a well documented case, firmware versions, and repro steps would be super helpful. Apparently, support does not read what you copy and paste into the web forms.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I wonder what I'm not doing wrong? My cables aren't gold tipped and I'm able to get UHD without any issues.


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## wcaspe (Sep 17, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> I wonder what I'm not doing wrong? My cables aren't gold tipped and I'm able to get UHD without any issues.


That was my point.. The Apple TV and XBOX run 4K just fine on my older HDMI cables that I bought in the 1.2 era. You can get HDMI tested and logo'd cables that are certified to work. None of those that I have are gold tipped either. Older cables may work with the higher signal speeds, but they may not. I get asking customers to run with certified cables at higher speeds, as it is likely to work. Fortunately, there is not a big price premium for cables with the HDMI sticker. I did see plenty of cables at Fry's for > $1 a foot that did not have the sticker! I found cables on Monoprice for a lot less that were certified. Funny thing though, Tivo tech supports was not talking about certified cables. They were talking about gold tipped cables. I do have a 1.2 cable that is gold tipped...


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## razor237 (Feb 1, 2002)

wcaspe said:


> That was my point.. The Apple TV and XBOX run 4K just fine on my older HDMI cables that I bought in the 1.2 era. You can get HDMI tested and logo'd cables that are certified to work. None of those that I have are gold tipped either. Older cables may work with the higher signal speeds, but they may not. I get asking customers to run with certified cables at higher speeds, as it is likely to work. Fortunately, there is not a big price premium for cables with the HDMI sticker. I did see plenty of cables at Fry's for > $1 a foot that did not have the sticker! I found cables on Monoprice for a lot less that were certified. Funny thing though, Tivo tech supports was not talking about certified cables. They were talking about gold tipped cables. I do have a 1.2 cable that is gold tipped...


not sure if you found any solutions but I Think you might be stuck manually setting your resolution to get Netflix in 4K  ... I Have a bolt with the same issues as yours. Auto doesn't work correctly and from reading and searching for months it seem TiVo auto settings don't like Sony Tv's I have an XBR-65X850C that everything else works fine in 4k/HDR but my TiVo. Seems most TiVo owners with 4K issues have a sony TV and most have denons too lol but that's the issues since they can reproduce same results with the denon out of the mix. just thought i would throw my 2 cents in, came across this post searching for updates


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## Abbott25 (Feb 9, 2018)

I too have a Problem with "AUTO video setting" I keep setting it to "4K-60hz" and it keeps going back to "Auto" My TV is an "Sony-XBR65x900b". when it goes back to Auto, the TiVo-Bolt+ sets to 1080p, why ? Note I found out that , my system is going thru my "Yamaha AVR" and when I turn it on 1st, it seems the TiVo will stay at "4K-60hz" ,,, but then sometimes , streaming Apps, Like "AmazonPrime Video" will show , UHD Shows in TIVO Menu, and sometimes Not Why????


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## Norm Walker (Mar 24, 2018)

4K with my Vizio works well in YouTube and Netflix but has been hit or miss in Amazon.


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## Testpattern (Dec 5, 2006)

I'm attempting to use my Sony XBR-55HX929 (1080p only) running through our Yamaha RX-A2070 and cannot connect on power up through HDMI. System powers up and reports "no input". I change to another input and back and things lock in and play. Stays locked until I go through a power off with the system. Only exhibits this with the new Bolt. Never with previous Tivos or any of my other devices. Hate to return the Bolt but doesn't appear it's ready for prime time yet. If it won't play with HDMI at 1080p I hate to think what it will do when I move up to 4k.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Testpattern said:


> I'm attempting to use my Sony XBR-55HX929 (1080p only) running through our Yamaha RX-A2070 and cannot connect on power up through HDMI. System powers up and reports "no input". I change to another input and back and things lock in and play. Stays locked until I go through a power off with the system. Only exhibits this with the new Bolt. Never with previous Tivos or any of my other devices. Hate to return the Bolt but doesn't appear it's ready for prime time yet. If it won't play with HDMI at 1080p I hate to think what it will do when I move up to 4k.


Have you tried setting the output resolution on the Bolt to a fixed output resolution (1080p)?

Scott


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## Testpattern (Dec 5, 2006)

Yes I did but to no avail. However, I have solved my HDMI issue.
TiVo support had me to separate the audio and video... HDMI straight to the TV, optical to the receiver for sound. This did eliminate the HDMI handshake issues but overall was unacceptable to me. This approach eliminates being able to benefit from receiver operational messages and text input on options. I also prohibits HDMI "receiver pass through" which I had been using to drive a bedroom TV.
The ultimate solution came from this forum using a splitter inline with the original HDMI to receiver connection. HDMI now locks up cleanly 100% of the time and... I run my bedroom off of the splitter which is also a cleaner approach


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## stevepow (Sep 3, 2014)

wcaspe said:


> Three issues:
> 1) my understanding is that Tivo's Auto video setting should have a listing for 4K 60fps if everything is working well?
> 2) Netflix will only show UHD (4K) options if I have 4K 60fps manually selected on the Tivo Video resolution menu. If the Tivo is set to Auto, I only get HD options in Netflix. When 4K 60fps is manually selected, my TV information reports the 4K stream correctly. Basically, when I manually set 4K video on the tivo, Netflix works as expected. Shouldn't Netflix work at 4K when Auto is set as well?


Same issue with new Bolt Vox. I can force it to 4K and then I get 4K options in Netflix, but Auto will only do 1080p. My Apple TV doesn't have this problem nor do the apps on my Sony TV. TiVo is funky - not so crazy about the Bolt at this point; it is faster than my Roamio, and I guess it will do 4K if I force it. The CEC stuff is still terrible/unusable too (again my Apple TV and Oppo Bluray work fine). TiVo really needs to get this stuff sorted - it's starting to be fairly old and mature technology for most equipment.

Sony XBR75X940D
Marantz AV7703
The HDMI cable that came with the Bolt that TiVo claims should work.


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## lprimak (Jun 30, 2019)

Same here. The exact same issue, August 2020.
Latest Tivo software as of June 2020
Logged this issue with Tivo tech support as well


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## Andrew B (Oct 7, 2017)

FWIW, I've completely abandoned TiVo for streaming apps -- the OS is just too flaky, slow and outdated. Instead, a Roku stick works like a charm and consolidates the ones I use (like Netflix, Amazon and AppleTV). I know that defeats the purpose of having everything in one box with robust search across platforms, but TiVo made a horrible mistake in its OS decision by not adopting Android for the Bolt. Bottom line is I'm slowly migrating away from TiVo as other app-based systems surpass it in speed, quality and simplicity. My Bolt is strictly a Cable TV tuner and DVR at this point.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Andrew B said:


> FWIW, I've completely abandoned TiVo for streaming apps -- the OS is just too flaky, slow and outdated. Instead, a Roku stick works like a charm and consolidates the ones I use (like Netflix, Amazon and AppleTV). I know that defeats the purpose of having everything in one box with robust search across platforms, but TiVo made a horrible mistake in its OS decision by not adopting Android for the Bolt. Bottom line is I'm slowly migrating away from TiVo as other app-based systems surpass it in speed, quality and simplicity. My Bolt is strictly a Cable TV tuner and DVR at this point.


Yes. I've been that way for years now with the Bolt. When the Bolt first came out TiVo was ahead of just about everyone else. But then they stagnated for years. And every other streamer out there vastly surpassed them.


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## lprimak (Jun 30, 2019)

Yes, the problem is all apps are Old, i.e. Netflix app is very old compared to what's on Roku, no HBO+, Showtime, etc. etc.



Andrew B said:


> FWIW, I've completely abandoned TiVo for streaming apps -- the OS is just too flaky, slow and outdated. Instead, a Roku stick works like a charm and consolidates the ones I use (like Netflix, Amazon and AppleTV). I know that defeats the purpose of having everything in one box with robust search across platforms, but TiVo made a horrible mistake in its OS decision by not adopting Android for the Bolt. Bottom line is I'm slowly migrating away from TiVo as other app-based systems surpass it in speed, quality and simplicity. My Bolt is strictly a Cable TV tuner and DVR at this point.


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