# TiVo on Fence about New Pro Units for Retail



## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

A TiVo survey went out to a sample set of Roamio users this week, which had detailed questions about HBO Go and SkipMode (and issues with SM) for Roamios, show that this was not a recycled survey, but the very latest thinking - and not some thrown together Survey Monkey stuff.

Having been involved with the Q Design of over 1,000 research projects from over 50 Leading Research Companies, I have a pretty good sense of reading into why things are being asked.

With the new direction of TiVo (MSO, not Retail) this clearly shows IF built, the thinking is still 3TB / 6 Tuners, but this shows they are wondering what type of sell through with Roamio users it will have. Again, not a surprise, given the Retail Sub Trends of the last 3 years, with the new CEO (interim, but possession is 9/10th of the law....and they spent $12M already in the CEO transition) being the CFO.

As I stated previously in other threads before the announcement, this is what happens when a financial numbers guy looks at those trends/numbers - just as it has happened in so many Companies in the last 5+ years when CFOs move to CEO.

There were NO OTA Questions on the Survey. With that said, I suspect this was only sent to Plus/Pro users - but have no way of knowing for sure.

No question about the King of All TiVos....and an important failure, imo, no questions about 4k....which would be a key for current Roamio owners who might be interested in the newer unit, if it came to market. (By determining what percent of current Plus/Pro users have 4k TV, that would likely also play into adoption rate of new "Pro" unit.

See the question for yourself.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Despite the layoffs, it hard to imagine a Bolt Pro won't come at some point. Currently, they are having to keep manufacturing the Roamio Pro just to keep a pro line. It seems financially, it would make more sense to build one based off the current Bolt architecture. It would save money on future development costs and manufacturing costs (assuming it re-uses similar components to the current Bolt).


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

If they don't offer a Bolt Pro it's pretty much an admission they're abandoning retail. If they keep the disk at 3GB they're just being cheap for the sake of it.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

rainwater said:


> Despite the layoffs, it hard to imagine a Bolt Pro won't come at some point. Currently, they are having to keep manufacturing the Roamio Pro just to keep a pro line. It seems financially, it would make more sense to build one based off the current Bolt architecture. It would save money on future development costs and manufacturing costs (assuming it re-uses similar components to the current Bolt).


Its much cheaper to continue to use older technology of Roamio Pro/Plus than newer unbuilt technology of a New Pro unit though.

That is most likely why the MSO offerings run about 1 generation behind.

I note again, TiVo CMO specifically did not call it a BOLT Pro Unit in Q&A - and he also seemed to indicate the vERY high end unit would be on a similar new platform - but as noted in first post - no mention of that in Survey, which seems strange as well - because comparison in intent could be judged between the 2 units.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

That question has been asked in their surveys (word for word) at least a few times a year for the last couple of years, shortly before and even long after the Roamios were released. I've answered it repeatedly.

They might be taking the customer's temperature every few months, but it's an old stock question.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> That question has been asked in their surveys (word for word) at least a few times a year for the last couple of years, shortly before and even long after the Roamios were released. I've answered it repeatedly.
> 
> They might be taking the customer's temperature every few months, but it's an old stock question.


I was going to say, this didn't really look any different from some other surveys I've taken from TiVO.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> That question has been asked in their surveys (word for word) at least a few times a year for the last couple of years, shortly before and even long after the Roamios were released. I've answered it repeatedly.
> 
> They might be taking the customer's temperature every few months, but it's an old stock question.


Exactly, reading too much into their standard survey questions is not barometer of future retail and product ambitions.
With what was said with the Bolt launch last year there's no reason not to expect a Bolt Pro later this fall.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

The way I see these recent announcements isn't that they are going to abandon their niche market in stand alone DVRs but that they are going to focus on their MSO market. With the primary "at the moment" change being in marketing and likely the part of the reason a Bolt OTA has not been released. 

In my opinion this means we will still see a "Bolt Pro" but it will be focused on what is needed/wanted by the MSO market. TiVos MSO market needs a DVR that allows these small MSOs to compete with the systems being offered by Direct & Dish. The current Bolt is a non-starter as it has too few tuners to do so effectively. The Roamio Plus/Pro fits that bill today but will be 3 year old tech this summer and will need a refresh, if for nothing more than to update to MOCA 2.0, provide support for h.265, and to reduce production costs by integrating streaming via the Bolts one chip design. 

Releasing such a product to the stand alone market makes sense because of TiVos small but fairly loyal existing user base. It is easy and cheap to market such a product to us and provides TiVo with a good size test market to work issues out. While still making a profit with a low volume product. I also expect that at some point TiVo will need to release an updated Mini that also has MOCA 2.0 and supports h.265. 

After that I think we are in a zone where not much is going to happen for a few years until several things shake out, like a cable card replacement, ATSC 3.0, and where the market goes.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

atmuscarella said:


> TiVos MSO market needs a DVR that allows these small MSOs to compete with the systems being offered by Direct & Dish.


I have several friends that are impressed that my Roamio Basic has 4 tuners. I think you are trying to make your wishes what the general TV watching public wants. Along with others here that want 8-tuner or more boxes, 6 TB or larger drives. Vast overkill for most people. I think the Bolt with 4-tuners and HD does meet the needs of the majority of TV viewers that want a DVR. More apps would be nice...

If my Roamio Basic breaks, I'll buy a Roamio Pro. Several upgrades that I don't _need_ but I _want_ a TiVo DVR.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

chicagobrownblue said:


> I have several friends that are impressed that my Roamio Basic has 4 tuners. I think you are trying to make your wishes what the general TV watching public wants. Along with others here that want 8-tuner or more boxes, 6 TB or larger drives. Vast overkill for most people. I think the Bolt with 4-tuners and HD does meet the needs of the majority of TV viewers that want a DVR. More apps would be nice...
> 
> If my Roamio Basic breaks, I'll buy a Roamio Pro. Several upgrades that I don't _need_ but I _want_ a TiVo DVR.


I am OTA only and don't expect a Bolt Pro will support OTA at all so my desires have nothing to do with what I think a Bolt Pro will be and why.

I certainly don't know what the general public wants, I only know how Dish & Direct market their DVR systems, where some large MSOs DVR systems are or are heading, and what TiVo provides it's MSOs now, and in all those cases it isn't 4 tuner DVRs.


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## rick123 (Dec 9, 2004)

Yes, the question appears from the end of a monthly TiVo Advisors survey...

The thing about a TiVo box with 6 (or more) tuners that allocate only as-needed to tivo mini is that it can allow a multi-tv outlet setup using only one TiVo unit and multiple mini's. This type of setup can be a long term cash saver in today's cable tv market. We currently pay Comcast not only $7.45 per cablecard, but also a recently jacked-up $3.95 (or 3.99) for digital converters to view basic cable on seldom-used non-tivo televisions. In my case I plan to run Cat 5 to the 2 non-tivo TVs this summer, that will save me 8 bucks a month and pay for itself (pay the cost of 2 mini units) in 2.5 years.

Only having 4 tuners could be an issue depending on how many of the tuners are needed for both recording and watching at the same time. 6+ tuners would give you a better chance of not running short. 

I personally can't bring myself to save the cablecard fee and eliminate my Premiere TiVo because I don't want our entire home TV experience to go down while I have to repair/replace TiVo if/when I have a rare but not unlikely hard drive or other TiVo hardware failure...

They will have to create a new 6+ tuner unit eventually IMO to satisfy this power-user need, but for now the Roamio Pro works for this type of setup and will continue to be the unit of choice for this as long as the feature set can keep pace with what they offer on the Bolt...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> That question has been asked in their surveys (word for word) at least a few times a year for the last couple of years, shortly before and even long after the Roamios were released. I've answered it repeatedly.
> 
> They might be taking the customer's temperature every few months, but it's an old stock question.


Yeah and I never know what to say since it describes the Pro which I own so I always say yes.


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## skypros (May 19, 2015)

What I think Tivo may do is:

OTA = Areo..... with a 1 or 2 tuner and a $4.99 mo or $199 lifetime..... unit will retail for $149

Cable / OTA = Current Bolt

Cable = I think they will keep the current Roamio Pro.... They may re-do some of the insides and call it a Roamio Pro 4K

This way they will have 3 very different models..... and 3 very different price points.

I think Tivo made a big mistake with the Roamio Plus..... Because it was basically the same a s Pro with a much lower price tag.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

They should retool all new boxes with removable tuner modules.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> They should retool all new boxes with removable tuner modules.


Explain what this would do?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Tivo needs to come out with a 6 tuner, 4K capable, large HD DVR.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

waynomo said:


> Explain what this would do?


Use whatever provider you like, cable, ota, Direct, Dish


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> Use whatever provider you like, cable, ota, Direct, Dish


There is more to a satellite receiver (vs. a cable box) than just the RF tuner. With different encoding schemes, different modulation and much higher data density rates per carrier, I doubt that a replaceable "tuner" module would cost much less than a new DVR. Really, once you have a decrypted data stream of a single channel, the rest of the DVR is pretty trivial - basically just a low end Linux PC.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Should there be a Series 6 "pro" model that comes out this year, I wonder if it will be called Bolt Pro. My guess is that it will have the traditional 3.5" hard drive, not the smaller 2.5" drive in the current Bolt, and that it will come in a more conservative-looking black box rather than the bent white box Bolt design that was not at all well received among the long-time TiVo user crowd here.

But I agree that a Series 6 "pro" TiVo is only likely to come to the retail market if TiVo believes it can also be easily re-badged and sold to their MSO partners. Given the existence of the current TiVo T6 (which is the MSO version of either the Roamio Plus or Roamio Pro), I suspect that a Bolt Pro (or whatever it's called) would have a future with MSO partners.

But in case a Bolt Pro never comes to market, hey, at least you Roamio Pro folks now have SkipMode and are essentially at feature parity with the Bolt (except for 4K).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Should there be a Series 6 "pro" model that comes out this year, I wonder if it will be called Bolt Pro. My guess is that it will have the traditional 3.5" hard drive, not the smaller 2.5" drive in the current Bolt, and that it will come in a more conservative-looking black box rather than the bent white box Bolt design that was not at all well received among the long-time TiVo user crowd here.
> 
> But I agree that a Series 6 "pro" TiVo is only likely to come to the retail market if TiVo believes it can also be easily re-badged and sold to their MSO partners. Given the existence of the current TiVo T6 (which is the MSO version of either the Roamio Plus or Roamio Pro), I suspect that a Bolt Pro (or whatever it's called) would have a future with MSO partners.
> 
> But in case a Bolt Pro never comes to market, hey, at least you Roamio Pro folks now have SkipMode and are essentially at feature parity with the Bolt (except for 4K).


If you don't have a 4K HDTV the Roamio Plus/pro works without many problem that are fixed with the Bolt (except the random audio drop outs), so why upgrade, but the future is 4K HDTV, anybody purchasing a big screen HDTV today will more likely to get a 4K model than in the past as the price is coming down. At that point (some years out) I would want a 4K HDTV and a 4K TiVo with 6 tuners as the cable co.s will, at some time in the future, start broadcasting some 4K channels, plus Netflix does have 4K programing now.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

They said they are doing a Bolt Pro. They could always change their minds. But I don't think the survey pic gives us any insight into whether they have changed their minds or what will exactly be in a Bolt Pro model.

4k is a given since the Bolt has 4k. 6 or more tuners and 3+tb also a given otherwise no reason to make a Pro model.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

trip1eX said:


> They said they are doing a Bolt Pro. They could always change their minds. But I don't think the survey pic gives us any insight into whether they have changed their minds or what will exactly be in a Bolt Pro model.
> 
> 4k is a given since the Bolt has 4k. 6 or more tuners and 3+tb also a given otherwise no reason to make a Pro model.


They never said they were doing a BOLT Pro.

The CMO talked about a Pro Version, but was careful never to called it a Bolt.

Of course that was now 5 months ago - under a different CEO and a different strategy.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

They continue to develop a Roamio Pro replacement and have no intention of exiting the retail market according to Choppra.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> They never said they were doing a BOLT Pro.
> 
> The CMO talked about a Pro Version, but was careful never to called it a Bolt.
> 
> Of course that was now 5 months ago - under a different CEO and a different strategy.


YOu're fooling yourself.


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## LoveGardenia (Apr 24, 2015)

Hopefully the FCC open set top box will be law soon. How does this effect TiVo's decision to work with MSO and Retail? Will the FCC ruling make a huge difference in the software and hardware requirements? Remember this ruling applies to all tv services and yes I see TiVo will have some competition in the retail DVR market. I agree with other posters about a newer TiVo Box needed in the near future because of the price drop on 4K TV's and Mini's. I personal would like to see a TiVo box not requiring a cable card & TA just plug and play with some software added by them or our chosen cable provider to view the SDV channels.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

LoveGardenia said:


> Hopefully the FCC open set top box will be law soon.


It can take up to 7 years before implementation so that really isn't even on the radar at this point. My guess is cable as we know it won't even be the same by then so it will all be pointless anyways.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

trip1eX said:


> They said they are doing a Bolt Pro. They could always change their minds. But I don't think the survey pic gives us any insight into whether they have changed their minds or what will exactly be in a Bolt Pro model.
> 
> 4k is a given since the Bolt has 4k. 6 or more tuners and 3+tb also a given otherwise no reason to make a Pro model.





SomeRandomIdiot said:


> They never said they were doing a BOLT Pro.
> 
> The CMO talked about a Pro Version, but was careful never to called it a Bolt.
> 
> Of course that was now 5 months ago - under a different CEO and a different strategy.


What difference does it make if it's called a "BOLT Pro" or if it's just some other name? As trip1eX says, they're almost certain to introduce a model with 4k capabilities, at least 6 tuners, and at least 3 TB of storage. It won't matter what they call it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lessd said:


> If you don't have a 4K HDTV the Roamio Plus/pro works without many problem that are fixed with the Bolt (except the random audio drop outs), so why upgrade, but the future is 4K HDTV, anybody purchasing a big screen HDTV today will more likely to get a 4K model than in the past as the price is coming down. At that point (some years out) I would want a 4K HDTV and a 4K TiVo with 6 tuners as the cable co.s will, at some time in the future, start broadcasting some 4K channels, plus Netflix does have 4K programing now.


If someone should upgrade a Roamio Plus/Pro to a Bolt Pro when/if a Bolt Pro is released is really a whole different discussion.

A more pertinent question might be if you had to buy a new DVR today would you want to buy nearly 3 year old tech or would you want an updated model. I am guessing for most price would drive that decision and as long as TiVo is willing to sell Roamio Pros with lifetime for $600 most/many people will be fine with the older model. But if TiVo would actually like to get the $599 with 1 year service that they offer the Roamio Pro for on their web site, I am guessing it really needs to be an updated Bolt Pro model.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

trip1eX said:


> YOu're fooling yourself.


Please re-read the CMO Q&A and point out where I am incorrect in his careful wording.

But according to you, we will not need a DVR any longer anyway - so not sure why you care.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Please re-read the CMO Q&A and point out where I am incorrect in his careful wording.
> 
> But according to you, we will not need a DVR any longer anyway - so not sure why you care.


The name is irrelevant. No one is arguing about the name.

That's a strawman argument.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

trip1eX said:


> The name is irrelevant. No one is arguing about the name.
> 
> That's a strawman argument.


Besides stating that DVRs are dead to VOD, I've noticed you love using the word strawman.

You should really learn its meaning.

But then again, as you want to call something by a name the CMO was careful not to use, why should other words be used accordingly either?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Besides stating that DVRs are dead to VOD, I've noticed you love using the word strawman.
> 
> You should really learn its meaning.
> 
> But then again, as you want to call something by a name the CMO was careful not to use, why should other words be used accordingly either?


OK tell us your conspiracy theory behind the Tivo CMO's "careful" non-use of name "Bolt Pro" And why no one on this board should refer to the next Tivo as the "Bolt Pro." You obviously want to get it out.

Let it out.

And then give us a better name to use in the meantime.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Besides stating that DVRs are dead to VOD, I've noticed you love using the word strawman.
> 
> You should really learn its meaning.
> 
> But then again, as you want to call something by a name the CMO was careful not to use, why should other words be used accordingly either?


I think the correct expression is red herring not strawnan. The question is if tivo is going to release a new unit with a bigger hard drive, more tuners and at least the same hardware upgrades found in the Bolt. MoCa 2.0, 4k, processor etc. Bolt Pro explains what posters are looking for. We don't care what tivo decides to call it. Saying Bolt Pro is easier then describing the features people are looking for.

Some posters call the Roamio series 5. We know what they're talking about.

Why isn't tivo calling it Bolt Pro? Who cares. Maybe they'll use a later generation chipset


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

lew said:


> I think the correct expression is red herring not strawnan. The question is if tivo is going to release a new unit with a bigger hard drive, more tuners and at least the same hardware upgrades found in the Bolt. MoCa 2.0, 4k, processor etc. Bolt Pro explains what posters are looking for. We don't care what tivo decides to call it. Saying Bolt Pro is easier then describing the features people are looking for.
> 
> Some posters call the Roamio series 5. We know what they're talking about.
> 
> Why isn't tivo calling it Bolt Pro? Who cares. Maybe they'll use a later generation chipset


The name Bolt Pro comes from the Roamio Pro, we never had, say a Premiere Pro. TiVo may name the next product anything they want, but on this Forum if we give the name Bolt Pro to TiVos next product we all know what is being referred to. When and if TiVo comes out with the Bolt Pro and say names it* Big Boy*, so what.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

I have little incentive to upgrade my Basic without latest-spec hardware and a basic Bolt isn't enough of a delta. A "Bolt Pro" or whatever they want to call it is what I'm waiting for and I have no doubt I am not alone.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

lessd said:


> When and if TiVo comes out with the Bolt Pro and say names it* Big Boy*, so what.


Big Boy makes delicious burgers, might make for some product confusion


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

randian said:


> Big Boy makes delicious burgers, might make for some product confusion


For you maybe, but Cows make delicious burgers.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

randian said:


> Big Boy makes delicious burgers, might make for some product confusion


OK than let call it* Little Boy *after the first A-Bombs, no confusion about food then


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

This thread should be deleted. 

The OP is begging to be put on my ignore list. It's not his first post with bad information.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

waynomo said:


> This thread should be deleted.
> 
> The OP is begging to be put on my ignore list. It's not his first post with bad information.


At least they chose an appropriate forum name...


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

waynomo said:


> This thread should be deleted.
> 
> The OP is begging to be put on my ignore list. It's not his first post with bad information.


Yes, that's the way to handle negative info, lol


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Yes, that's the way to handle negative info, lol


It's the conclusion you came to based on your limited information. You've done it before.

It has nothing to do with negative information. It has to do with inaccurate information.


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## jkovach (Feb 17, 2000)

What is the half-life for Tivo model names?

The name for each generation seems to have a shorter lifespan than the one before it. Now to the point where Tivo is making and selling 2 at once...

I love Tivo, the product, but the name changes are starting to reek of desperation. Are they just trying to figure out what sticks? Do they really think a new name will drive sales?

Also not fond of the new logo.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jkovach said:


> What is the half-life for Tivo model names?
> 
> The name for each generation seems to have a shorter lifespan than the one before it. Now to the point where Tivo is making and selling 2 at once...
> 
> ...


The name is irrelevant, what counts is actually upgrading hardware. The hardware in the Series 5 platform (Roamios) was a significant hardware upgrade over the Series 4 platform (Premieres) and the Series 6 platform (Bolt with more models to come) is a significant hardware upgrade over the Series 5 platform (Roamios).

You seem to be advocating for not upgrading hardware and that a shorter hardware upgrade cycle is bad, seems completely backwards to me. I would think upgrading hardware is a good thing and that a shorter hardware upgrade cycle is preferable.

After all most electronics is upgraded yearly. I frankly think TiVo should be doing updates at least every 2 years waiting 3 or more seems like they are really stretching it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> The name is irrelevant, what counts is actually upgrading hardware. The hardware in the Series 5 platform (Roamios) was a significant hardware upgrade over the Series 4 platform (Premieres) and the Series 6 platform (Bolt with more models to come) is a significant hardware upgrade over the Series 5 platform (Roamios).
> 
> You seem to be advocating for not upgrading hardware and that a shorter hardware upgrade cycle is bad, seems completely backwards to me. I would think upgrading hardware is a good thing and that a shorter hardware upgrade cycle is preferable.
> 
> After all most electronics is upgraded yearly. I frankly think TiVo should be doing updates at least every 2 years waiting 3 or more seems like they are really stretching it.


I think it takes about 3 years for TiVo to make a significant change to their hardware, new and faster chips etc. Having said that TiVo is reaching close to the top of where they can go with the retail DVR, bigger hard drives (past 3Tb) are not needed by most (but not all) users, the Roamio is fast enough for most things, skip on my Roamio plus is as fast as I could want it, if new hardware will allow new features (like the Bolt with its 4K), or less cost for TiVo to make, that the only upgrades that I see in the future of TiVo. Even with the Bolt 4K it is not a 100% sure thing that when cable starts to deliver channels in 4K, the Bolt, as it is now, will be able to record and play back these 4K channels in all their full 4K glory. For most people (not all people) 4K is not that big a jump in TV viewing enjoyment (my wife still watches most programs SD on her kitchen HDTV ).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Pardon me if this point has already been raised somewhere, but I think we'll see a Bolt Pro (or whatever it's called -- I don't think it will have the funky Bolt shape, white color, or 2.5" hard drive, so maybe it gets a totally different name) *only* if TiVo's MSO partners have committed to deploy such units in their customers' homes. Look, there's no point in TiVo killing off their retail efforts so long as they make some high-margin sales off it and it remains profitable. But I don't see them sinking money into the development and marketing of new retail products (at least, CableCard DVRs) unless those DVRs have a guaranteed role to play in their MSO partner business, which TiVo is clearly shifting toward.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lessd said:


> I think it takes about 3 years for TiVo to make a significant change to their hardware, new and faster chips etc. Having said that TiVo is reaching close to the top of where they can go with the retail DVR, bigger hard drives (past 3Tb) are not needed by most (but not all) users, the Roamio is fast enough for most things, skip on my Roamio plus is as fast as I could want it, if new hardware will allow new features (like the Bolt with its 4K), or less cost for TiVo to make, that the only upgrades that I see in the future of TiVo. Even with the Bolt 4K it is not a 100% sure thing that when cable starts to deliver channels in 4K, the Bolt, as it is now, will be able to record and play back these 4K channels in all their full 4K glory. For most people (not all people) 4K is not that big a jump in TV viewing enjoyment (my wife still watches most programs SD on her kitchen HDTV ).


I would agree that 3 years seems to be what TiVo can deal with (Roamio to Bolt was 2yrs 1 month, but we still don't have a full "Bolt" line up).

I understand for people with Roamio Plus/Pro units the Bolt seems out of place and doesn't make much sense to them. I agree and so did TiVo when they said it wasn't designed to replace the Plus/Pro units.

The Bolt was/is designed to be an upgrade to the Roamio and it is a significant upgrade. The Bolt added 4k/h.265 support, added MOCA 2.0, added the built in ability to stream to android/iOS/web browser, provided a faster processor that increased UI responsiveness and noticeable increase app responsiveness with Netflix being the most significant. Plus other improvements like increasing Ethernet from 100MB to GB, increasing wireless from N to AC,. I think that is allot of hardware upgrades and I see no reason why people shouldn't be happy about TiVo doing it.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> Pardon me if this point has already been raised somewhere, but I think we'll see a Bolt Pro (or whatever it's called -- I don't think it will have the funky Bolt shape, white color, or 2.5" hard drive, so maybe it gets a totally different name) *only* if TiVo's MSO partners have committed to deploy such units in their customers' homes.


and that the cable companies have agreed on a transmission standard for 4k. The 4k piece puts Tivo between a rock and a hard place.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

chicagobrownblue said:


> and that the cable companies have agreed on a transmission standard for 4k. The 4k piece puts Tivo between a rock and a hard place.


They still aren't widely using H.264 for regular HD. Wait much longer and they might as well skip straight to H.265.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chicagobrownblue said:


> and that the cable companies have agreed on a transmission standard for 4k. The 4k piece puts Tivo between a rock and a hard place.


Oh, I honestly don't see any linear cable channels in 4K/UHD at all in the next 12 months, for a variety of reasons. However, we are seeing some on-demand UHD content from Comcast that can be streamed over IP to certain model set-top boxes. Offering a Bolt or Bolt Pro to their customers would at least help those smaller-to-midsize MSOs offer their customers a convenient way to access UHD content, although it would be from Netflix or Amazon.

As for the "rock and a hard place," yeah, I guess I can see how maybe TiVo doesn't want to develop another DVR until they know how linear UHD cable channels will be transmitted, IF there's reason to believe that will happen in the next couple years...


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

geekmedic said:


> They continue to develop a Roamio Pro replacement and have no intention of exiting the retail market according to Choppra.


So I saw the part where they don't intend to exit retail, but beyond CMO's comments in the fall, do we have any other indication a "pro" model is moving forward. Since the 4-tuner OTA model was already mostly in the bag, I can see that still coming to market and CEO suggested a non-DVR solution for late 2016 -- could that be a Roku-esque device?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I still think TiVo's best play for retail is for them to offer their own SlingTV/PSVue style service which is tied into a cloud based DVR that integrates seamlessly with an inexpensive OTA only DVR. Having actual content tied to the monthly service fee would make it much easier for consumers to swallow. And by excluding the local channels from the streaming service, and using a local DVR for recording those instead, they could keep the price down and eliminate the hassle of dealing with multiple markets. 

The trick is... can they get the deals required from the content providers? Even Apple has had trouble with that in the past, so it may be difficult for a small company like TiVo to pull it off.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> I still think TiVo's best play for retail is for them to offer their own SlingTV/PSVue style service which is tied into a cloud based DVR that integrates seamlessly with an inexpensive OTA only DVR. Having actual content tied to the monthly service fee would make it much easier for consumers to swallow. And by excluding the local channels from the streaming service, and using a local DVR for recording those instead, they could keep the price down and eliminate the hassle of dealing with multiple markets.
> 
> The trick is... can they get the deals required from the content providers? Even Apple has had trouble with that in the past, so it may be difficult for a small company like TiVo to pull it off.


USTVNOW does this already.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

shwru980r said:


> USTVNOW does this already.


And USTVNOW is technically illegal to use in the USA, something that any public company is not going to violate.


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## skypros (May 19, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> The trick is... can they get the deals required from the content providers? Even Apple has had trouble with that in the past, so it may be difficult for a small company like TiVo to pull it off.


I don't think Tivo will be able to do it.... Dish and Directv can offer streaming because they have programming in place already, So it is much easier to "deal" with the programmers in offering Streaming Channels (packages).

Apple, at some point in the very near future will probably get enough programming contracts signed... so they will be able to offer a small Streaming package.
What I find so strange is that companies like Apple don't go and buy Tivo..... Tivo is already in people's living rooms with Cable and or OTA..... and *iTivo* just sounds like it is a given.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> And USTVNOW is technically illegal to use in the USA, something that any public company is not going to violate.


They would have been shut down like Aereo, if it was illegal. USTVNOW already works on Tivo through Plex.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Keep in mind that Joe six pack either pays $30/month for something like Contour from Cox or they get thier typical dvr which is outdated, slow and has a horrible GUI. For $299 and a year of free service, I think more people just need to see the Bolt in action and they will be sold. My brother has about 40 SD shows and his hard drive is at 97% on a 1980's era Cox dvr.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mattyro7878 said:


> Keep in mind that Joe six pack either pays $30/month for something like Contour from Cox or they get thier typical dvr which is outdated, slow and has a horrible GUI. For $299 and a year of free service, I think more people just need to see the Bolt in action and they will be sold. My brother has about 40 SD shows and his hard drive is at 97% on a 1980's era Cox dvr.


*1980s DVR* !!!, the first hard drive DVRs came out in the late 90s


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The first TiVo wasn't released until 1999. The first cable company DVR didn't come out for at least another 2-3 years after that. So the oldest cable DVRs in existance are from the early 2000s.


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