# Breaking Bad S05E07 "Say My Name" OAD 08/26/12



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Wow. I never in a million years thought the writers would have the guts to off Mike. Well played.

This opens a whole can of worms. How is Walt going to dispose of the body without Jesse finding out? Can Walt really tie up all of the loose ends?

Todd helping Walt cook didn't feel right.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Walt will leave the body for the police to find, or get Todd to help out.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Wow to Mike being killed by Walt. If Jesse finds out that it was him, that would really be the final straw.

Two sides of Walt. One side, teacher to the new boy. Patient and instructive. Other side, Heisenberg - a Walt ego/pride combined with a Gus cold blooded nature to succeed. He seems to take on traits of those he kills. 

I don't like Todd as a new assistant. He is not Jesse. He may want to be, but he has some twists in his brain. I won't be surprised if he does something else very impulsively and messes things up again. Something he does that will think make Mr. White like him more. He seems to need that.

Oh Jesse, run away now. I want to see you move to Boston and have your own spin off show set there. I don't care what it is, I just don't want Mr. White to kill you too.


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## maltese (Aug 21, 2012)

Any chance Jesse will come after Walt if he finds out about Mike?

I was half expecting Skylar to be helping him with the cook.... that would have been crazy.

These 8 episodes have been one big teaser/closer/transition. I hope the last 8 will do the whole series justice.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Minor spoiler for Episode 8



Spoiler



Episode title is Gliding All Over
That's a poem by Walt Whitman

Gliding Over All

GLIDING o'er all, through all,
Through Nature, Time, and Space,
As a ship on the waters advancing,
The voyage of the soul--not life alone,
Death, many deaths I'll sing.



Can't wait for next week!


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

How are they going to explain that Walt's phone was the last to call Mike? I once was the last person who spoke to a woman (it was for a business appointment) who died mysteriously (later ruled a suicide) and was the first person the police contacted.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I'm not sure Jesse will or has to find out about Mike.

Wasn't Mike set to sail off into the sunset and never be heard from again? Jesse and Mike did their goodbyes.

Walt disposes of the body (and car) and perhaps no one ever knows...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Family said:


> How are they going to explain that Walt's phone was the last to call Mike? I once was the last person who spoke to a woman (it was for a business appointment) who died mysteriously (later ruled a suicide) and was the first person the police contacted.


I'm pretty sure all the cell phones these guys use are pay-as-you go and untraceable. Walt probably still has two cell phones, but just doesn't need to hide them anymore.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

uncdrew said:


> I'm not sure Jesse will or has to find out about Mike.
> 
> Wasn't Mike set to sail off into the sunset and never be heard from again? Jesse and Mike did their goodbyes.
> 
> Walt disposes of the body (and car) and perhaps no one ever knows...


He's going to disappear the same way he wanted to make Lydia disappear.

Speaking of Lydia, that was great when Walt realized he could have just gone to her for the list.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Hank said:


> I'm pretty sure all the cell phones these guys use are pay-as-you go and untraceable. Walt probably still has two cell phones, but just doesn't need to hide them anymore.


Heck, Saul had a drawer full of them!!

I am sure no one was surprised to see the Car Wash closed and the Meth truck pulled up in there.

I also am laughing because there is now a candy shop that is selling the blue meth rock candy they use on the show.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

How was Mike able to meet Walt but not go get his bag from the airport himself? How did he even get away from the police at the park?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

The tails had been pulled off Mike. 

My guess is he slinked away from the park (leaving his granddaughter alone) and then drove to somewhere safe. So that part makes sense.

I too don't know why he couldn't drive to the airport. Perhaps he felt the airports were being patrolled?


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> How was Mike able to meet Walt but not go get his bag from the airport himself? How did he even get away from the police at the park?


I think he just walked away and got a ride outta there somehow, cab probably.

Those cops looked like regular beat cops, they appeared to be responding to the car more than to Mike, I don't think they knew what Mike looked like.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

uncdrew said:


> I too don't know why he couldn't drive to the airport. Perhaps he felt the airports were being patrolled?


I rationalized it as Mike thinking that the airports were being watched, and anyone that has known associates with Mike would be noticed.

So that rules out Saul being able to go (which is why Saul declined the offer), and also Jesse by way of Saul.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Beginning was bad ass. "Say my name".

When Walt has a great plan, he makes a good argument.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

After the thread a few weeks ago, this is bound to cause some controversy:


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Can't believe Walt offed Mike


Did Walt think Mike would flip?


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## Tyrion The Imp (Jul 11, 2012)

Wow.
I'm in denial that Mike is dead. I really loved his character and now I hate you Walt!!

Just kidding. This show is awesome. This episode went by quick that's for sure. When it ended, I was like, "already?" 

I'm starting to wonder now what Walt is sizing up on guns and ammunition for. Is it against Jesse, cops, or that other drug cartel that Walt was negotiating with in the beginning.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I love how Hank is going to be SUPER cop once again.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Can't believe Walt offed Mike
> 
> Did Walt think Mike would flip?


No, but now that Mike was pinched, the "hazard pay" for the 9 guys would stop, and one or more of them would flip. Walt wanted those 9 names so Walt could take them out before they flip. Mike didn't comply and Walt got pissed off.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> No, but now that Mike was pinched, the "hazard pay" for the 9 guys would stop, and one or more of them would flip. Walt wanted those 9 names so Walt could take them out before they flip. Mike didn't comply and Walt got pissed off.


Yeah. While Walt does think a lot of thing through, this time he sort of freaked out. Makes sense to me.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Heck, Saul had a drawer full of them!!


I wonder how he kept them charged.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Walt keeps cooking. He still sees it as being in business for himself. But now he is working with people he doesn't know as "partners". I don't think this is gonna work out too well for him.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

brianric said:


> I wonder how he kept them charged.


I thought the same thing.

But the drawer of phones fit his personality perfectly. Man, he's a shady one.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Walt keeps cooking. He still sees it as being in business for himself. But now he is working with people he doesn't know as "partners". I don't think this is gonna work out too well for him.


Right, especially because they're collecting the money, so they can keep whatever they want and dictate their own (new) terms.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Clearly, not everyone wins.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

When I break bad I want Saul as my lawyer.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

My prediction was mostly spot on!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, I guess we know that Betsy Brandt's "spoiler" from last week's podcast was a joke. 

So where was Walt setting up that cook location? Was that in the car wash? Was it in the warehouse where they had previously stored the methylamine and where Mike had cuffed Walt to the radiator?

And how is Walt going to manage two different cook locations? Seems like the cook is pretty labor intensive. It's not like they start something and then come back a day later. It's a process that's started and finished all in the same "shift." So why was Walt setting up that additional cook location if he can only be in one place at a time. Shouldn't he just focus on maximizing the cook potential of that one location rather than trying to set up more than one?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

maltese said:


> Any chance Jesse will come after Walt if he finds out about Mike?


No way. Jesse has a conscience. Walt's has broken ... bad! Walt proclaimed himself as the man who killed Gus Fring during the awesome opening stand-off/meeting with the other drug dealers. He stood his ground like an old pro. Jesse is not enough of an alpha male to go after Walt ... unless he turns state's evidence and goes to Hank to cut a deal.



uncdrew said:


> Yeah. While Walt does think a lot of thing through, this time he sort of freaked out. Makes sense to me.


That's the problem with having access to a loaded gun. A momentary lack of impulse control leads to irreversible consequences.

With the car and Mike in such proximity to the river, I would think that Walt would dispose of both. And now he also has Mike's moola.

Todd is a dummy and a loose cannon. Aligning with him is a HUGE mistake on Walt's part.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> With the car and Mike in such proximity to the river, I would think that Walt would dispose of both. And now he also has Mike's moola.


I think Walt has two options. One: wipe his prints from the gun, put it in Mike's hand, and make it look like a suicide (might need to prop Mike up and put another bullet in his mouth to make it more realistic). Two: get rid of the body and the car. However, I don't think the river is a viable way to dispose of either. Western rivers aren't like they are in the east. They're narrow and shallow, and both car and body would quickly be found if Walt tried to put them both in there. If Walt wants to truly make Mike disappear, he's going to have to take both the body and the car and get rid of them somewhere else. Maybe he can hire their buddy with the backhoe from the train heist episode to dig a huge hole in the desert.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> So where was Walt setting up that cook location? Was that in the car wash? Was it in the warehouse where they had previously stored the methylamine and where Mike had cuffed Walt to the radiator?


I thought the car wash scene was just about transferring some methylamine in preparation for a cook at a fumigating house.

Skyler looks at the Vamonos Pest logo on the truck. Jesse looks at it, turns to Skyler and says "Vamonos". Skyler replies "I wish", then walks away. :up:

They like the cartoon logos on this show. :up:


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> Maybe he can hire their buddy with the backhoe from the train heist episode to dig a huge hole in the desert.


I think Todd would be Walter's the best choice of help to dispose of Mike and the car. The other guys work for Saul, and I think there are little secrets in that circle, and word will eventually spread to Jesse. Todd has no alliance to those guys, and has been taken under Walt's wing.

With that said I think training Todd how to cook Blue Sky is a mistake on Walt's part. Once he masters it I can see him leaving town or trying to muscle Walter out after wards. He seems to have some family connections to crime organizations so he wouldn't need Walter or the Phoenix crew.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> I thought the car wash scene was just about transferring some methylamine in preparation for a cook at a fumigating house.
> 
> Skyler looks at the Vamonos Pest logo on the truck. Jesse looks at it, turns to Skyler and says "Vamonos". Skyler replies "I wish", then walks away. :up:
> 
> They like the cartoon logos on this show. :up:


The trailer was in the car-wash bay and they were hooking up the trailer to the Vamanos Pest truck. Then in a subsequent scene, Walt was setting up a lab in a warehouse-type building, when he and Jesse had the conversation about Jesse wanting his money and Walt belittling him for wanting to walk away. Then later still, there was a lab inside the plastic tent inside a house. So my confusion is why was Walt setting up the lab in the warehouse building. Was that the warehouse he shared with Mike and Jesse? Was that at the car wash? Was he planning to cook there, or was he just inspecting the equipment?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> Jesse is not enough of an alpha male to go after Walt ... unless he turns state's evidence and goes to Hank to cut a deal.


Hank cut a deal with a murderer? What kind of deal could it be? Take death penalty off the table, just go for life in prison instead?


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Was that the warehouse he shared with Mike and Jesse? Was that at the car wash? Was he planning to cook there, or was he just inspecting the equipment?


I thought he was just cleaning the equipment and preparing it for the next cook.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> So my confusion is why was Walt setting up the lab in the warehouse building....Was he planning to cook there, or was he just inspecting the equipment?


I thought he was just using that space to clean the equipment. He mentioned something about investing in some piece of cleaning equipment.


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## BK89 (Oct 11, 2005)

getreal said:


> No way. Jesse has a conscience. Walt's has broken ... bad! Walt proclaimed himself as the man who killed Gus Fring during the awesome opening stand-off/meeting with the other drug dealers. He stood his ground like an old pro. Jesse is not enough of an alpha male to go after Walt ... unless he turns state's evidence and goes to Hank to cut a deal.


Really? I don't think it would be too far off base to think that if Jesse finds out that he would be pissed enough to go after Walt. Jesse was going to kill the two dealers expressly because of that conscience of his (the two dealers who killed the kid - Walt just got to them first). He killed Gale and nearly killed Walt last season with the gun to his head, so its not like he doesn't have it in him. I was thinking, what if Jesse finds out about how Walt killed Mike and let Jane die at the same time? Maybe that's how it all ends, Jesse finds out about Jane and Mike and finally ends Walt.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

robojerk said:


> With that said I think training Todd how to cook Blue Sky is a mistake on Walt's part. Once he masters it I can see him leaving town or trying to muscle Walter out after wards. He seems to have some family connections to crime organizations so he wouldn't need Walter or the Phoenix crew.


Todd is a nobody (as far as BB is concerned). This will never happen. The other "connections" to his relative already in jail was just a red herring.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> I thought he was just cleaning the equipment and preparing it for the next cook.





john4200 said:


> I thought he was just using that space to clean the equipment. He mentioned something about investing in some piece of cleaning equipment.


You guys are probably right. He was probably just going through the equipment and getting it ready for the next cook.

So assuming Walt removed the methylamine trailer from the car wash, where is he storing it now? It wasn't in the warehouse where he was cleaning the equipment, was it?

And Walt really showed how little he respects Jesse in this episode. He knew Mike was serious about getting out, and he figured out a way for Mike to get his $5 million and to walk away. However, when Jesse persisted in wanting his portion of the money, Walt treated Jesse like a little child and tried to guilt-trip him into changing his mind. Despite Walt telling the PHX guys that Jesse is one of the best meth cooks in the country, Walt has always seen Jesse as a little kid and is continuing to treat him that way.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Hank said:


> Todd is a nobody (as far as BB is concerned). This will never happen. The other "connections" to his relative already in jail was just a red herring.


I'm just saying Landry's Todd's criminal mentality is far beyond Walter's. He killed that kid without much hesitation, and he doesn't look too heart broken about it. He could offer the Phoenix crew to cut out Walter (or flat out offer to eliminate Walter) in exchange to be their cook. Walter is being reckless by teaching this new kid a prove, profitable recipe that only he and Jesse can cook. Once he masters the Blue Sky recipe, I think he might break out on his own.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

It's going to take a long time to master the blue meth cook. I don't think he'll ever be able to take over. The only exception being that there are only 9 episodes left, and there's not enough time for that to build up and happen.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Also, all it takes is Walt to leave out a critical step or two, and Todd can't replicate the cook on his own. I think Walt was just looking for some help with the grunt work, but not to replace Jesse, per se.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Hank said:


> It's going to take a long time to master the blue meth cook. I don't think he'll ever be able to take over. The only exception being that there are only 9 episodes left, and there's not enough time for that to build up and happen.


Except we jump forward a year in time.
It's been a year since Jesse and Walt hooked up and he mastered it. Look, it's just a theory, disagree with it all you want. My point stands regardless, he's teaching Todd how to cook the blue meth, and that knowledge is the only thing that makes Heisenberg valuable.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Those places these guys meet up seem so desolate. I think Walt could "dissolve" the body and car where they lay.

He should keep the gun. He might need it again. 


I too viewed Todd as trying hard to learn this skill for a future. He's already "bad" and learning to cook meth from the best might go far. I totally see him stealing a batch, trying to kill Walt and take over, or something. Very soon.

I think he could distribute small amounts through his "contacts".


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

Gonna miss Mike. What a ride, Only one show this season remaining, I can't believe we have to wait until 2013 for more shows. 
Mike just would not say thank you to Walt, Also Mike did not see the old way collapsing around him, Walt was fighting Gus and only one of them was going to make it out alive. Maybe Mike did not care if Gus survived and Walt died because he would have still a steady job.


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## THEROCKER (Nov 9, 2000)

betts4 said:


> I also am laughing because there is now a candy shop that is selling the blue meth rock candy they use on the show.


How about this? I apologize if this was posted already. (Fake)


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Those places these guys meet up seem so desolate. I think Walt could "dissolve" the body and car where they lay.


The spot was (supposedly) remote enough that he could just put Mike in the car and burn the evidence.

Then again, isn't this desert country, where there should be plenty of scavengers (coyotes, vultures) to take care of Mike? But the car needs to be burned or dumped, or moved far away from Mike's rotting corpse and then burned or dumped.

Once he gets the names from Lydia, there is no more need for her either.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> The spot was (supposedly) remote enough that he could just put Mike in the car and burn the evidence.
> 
> Then again, isn't this desert country, where there should be plenty of scavengers (coyotes, vultures) to take care of Mike? But the car needs to be burned or dumped, or moved far away from Mike's rotting corpse and then burned or dumped.
> 
> Once he gets the names from Lydia, there is no more need for her either.


If his burned out car or his half-eaten body are found in the desert, that's going to trigger an investigation. The idea isn't to prevent someone from being able to pin the murder on Walt. The idea is to prevent anyone from ever investigating the murder at all, because they'll all just assume Mike skipped town. In order to do that, nobody can ever find the car or the body.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I do think Jessie or Skylar or both will do in Walt. It will likely be some "last straw" thing like putting the baby at risk.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

Walt's an expert at dissolving bodies. And I bet the guy they got the magnet from can make a car disappear.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

TheMerk said:


> After the thread a few weeks ago, this is bound to cause some controversy...


Not even close....


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

betts4 said:


> ...I don't like Todd as a new assistant. He is not Jesse. He may want to be, but he has some twists in his brain. I won't be surprised if he does something else very impulsively and messes things up again....


If you are inferring that shooting the kid was impulsive, I disagree. It was made VERY clear that NO ONE could witness the train heist. Todd had plenty of time to ponder shooting anyone who happened on the scene...


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

john4200 said:


> I thought he was just using that space to clean the equipment. He mentioned something about investing in some piece of cleaning equipment.


Yeah. Exotic equipment. A power washer will set them back about $189. 
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_pressure-washers+electric-cold-water



Hank said:


> Todd is a nobody (as far as BB is concerned). This will never happen. The other "connections" to his relative already in jail was just a red herring.


It'll be a bloody red not-so herring when Todd's relatives in jail shiv Mike's 9 guys.

I agree that Todd wil be trouble. Look for Todd to have a gun showdown with Jesse.

I saw Walt shooting Mike getting coming from 10 minutes out. If only Mike had said, "Thank you, Walt." 

What doesn't add up is it looked like Mike shot himself in the gut with another gun that Walt grabbed. We never heard a second shot.

Mike's last words, "F you Walter. Let me die in peace."

Walt just put the meth tank on the car wash line and Skyler closed the place down? Mike didn't know he owned the car wash?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I've said this before, but the entire current bad situation (with the 9 "legacy" guys and the DEA hot on the trail of Mike and Gus's organization) would never have existed if Walt hadn't done the magnet truck thing which led to the DEA finding Fring's cayman island bank account info behind that photo. Sure, you could say they might have found it some other way, but that wouldn't have been Walt's direct fault.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

netringer said:


> What doesn't add up is it looked like Mike shot himself in the gut with another gun that Walt grabbed. We never heard a second shot.


I don't think so. Walt shot through the window, it went into Mike's gut, and that was the only shot that Mike took.


netringer said:


> Walt just put the meth tank on the car wash line and Skyler closed the place down? Mike didn't know he owned the car wash?


Mike never had a chance/reason to look for it. Mike came to the warehouse in the last episode, saw it was missing, drew his gun on Walt and asked where it is, and Jesse told him that Walt had a plan to keep the methylamine and still get Mike his money. That was the last scene of last episode. This episode started with Walt relaying the plan to the PHX guys. If Mike bought into the plan when Walt explained it after last episode, then he would have had no reason to look for the trailer.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> If his burned out car or his half-eaten body are found in the desert, that's going to trigger an investigation. The idea isn't to prevent someone from being able to pin the murder on Walt. The idea is to prevent anyone from ever investigating the murder at all, because they'll all just assume Mike skipped town. In order to do that, nobody can ever find the car or the body.


Well, the car could be found without triggering a murder investigation. As long as where the car is found makes it plausible that Mike met someone and left town. Also, Walt would need to clean the blood (if any) off the seat and door, and dig the bullet out if it went through Mike.

I agree that Walt's best best is to make sure the body is never found.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> I've said this before, but the entire current bad situation (with the 9 "legacy" guys and the DEA hot on the trail of Mike and Gus's organization) would never have existed if Walt hadn't done the magnet truck thing which led to the DEA finding Fring's cayman island bank account info behind that photo. Sure, you could say they might have found it some other way, but that wouldn't have been Walt's direct fault.


Of course, if you want to blame someone, then blame Gus for putting that bank account information where it could be found, instead of on an encrypted drive.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Do we think the DEA also pinched the huge safe deposit box Mike left for Cayle?

Or just the leftover cash the lawyer had been storing to distribute to the legacy 9?


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Hank said:


> I've said this before, but the entire current bad situation (with the 9 "legacy" guys and the DEA hot on the trail of Mike and Gus's organization) would never have existed if Walt hadn't done the magnet truck thing which led to the DEA finding Fring's cayman island bank account info behind that photo. Sure, you could say they might have found it some other way, but that wouldn't have been Walt's direct fault.


I said this before, too, but probably the least believeable thing I've seen in BB was the Cayman account info written on the photo. I know it had to be disclosed in some way for the storyline to develop the way it did, but knowing Gus as we all do, there's no way in hell he would have done that.

______

Re Mike's body, does Walt really need to do anything with it? It could never be found and if it is, so what? Walt needs to make sure his prints aren't on anything, but I don't think law enforcement will be shocked that somebody killed Mike when he was about to be arrested. He was a known bad guy who had connections with lots of other known bad guys (and presumably lots of other unknown bad guys). There are plenty of people who wouldn't want Mike to talk and I assume law enforcement would realize that. It may even help Walt if the body is found because then no one is looking for Mike - which could lead Hank and co. to Walt/Jesse. Now I think the DEA will focus on the guys whose names were on those safe deposit boxes, which of course could also lead them to Walt/Jesse.

But if Walt has to dispose of the body, my money is on dissolving it in acid. That's the tried and true body disposal method for Walt. Walt and Todd could be taking the car apart at this very moment and dissolving it in acid, too. And they'd be taking a lunch break to eat crust-less PBJ sandwiches.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Well, the car could be found without triggering a murder investigation. As long as where the car is found makes it plausible that Mike met someone and left town. Also, Walt would need to clean the blood (if any) off the seat and door, and dig the bullet out if it went through Mike.
> 
> I agree that Walt's best best is to make sure the body is never found.


But don't forget that the window was shattered due to the gunshot. That would be enough to make someone suspect foul play. Much better if Walt just makes sure both the car and body are never found.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Hank said:


> Do we think the DEA also pinched the huge safe deposit box Mike left for Cayle?
> 
> Or just the leftover cash the lawyer had been storing to distribute to the legacy 9?


I wondered that too. After all, the 10th box wasn't one of his usual boxes, and according to Hank, the lawyer didn't represent Mike, only the 9 guys.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> Do we think the DEA also pinched the huge safe deposit box Mike left for Cayle?
> 
> Or just the leftover cash the lawyer had been storing to distribute to the legacy 9?


The DEA definitely pinched the big box. The DEA had obviously been tipped off that this guy was coming there. The lady who the lawyer brought the treats to was clearly unhappy that her good customer was about to get busted. The bank would know which boxes he had access to and could provide those records to the DEA.

And if that weren't enough, Walt or Saul made a comment about the DEA taking his nest egg twice.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> But don't forget that the window was shattered due to the gunshot. That would be enough to make someone suspect foul play.


No, it could have happened after Mike left. Somebody broke into the car, or threw rocks at it.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I agree with tivoboyjr -- there's no real need to deal with Mike's body or car. In fact, that's a risk getting someone else (Todd?) involved to witness the crime scene. And if Mike is never found, the DEA would keep looking for him, which is more risky for Walt. Stage it so it looks like Mike was a real hit, and the DEA will stop looking for him. 

It's also going to take A TON of acid to dissolve an entire car. Walt would have to hold up another train to get that much acid.  Just take it to the junk yard where they got rid of the RV. Throw Mike in the trunk. Done.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

tivoboyjr said:


> Re Mike's body, does Walt really need to do anything with it? It could never be found and if it is, so what?


The reason I think Walt needs to make Mike's body disappear is because if the body is found, Jesse might find out. And Jesse would think, hmmm, Walt was probably the last person to see Mike alive.

As I wrote before, the car does NOT need to disappear. Just cleaned and left in a plausible meet up place.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> And if that weren't enough, Walt or Saul made a comment about the DEA taking his nest egg twice.


Yeah, but "nest egg" could mean the significant balance of the $5mill that the lawyer still had been holding to distribute to the legacy 9 for hazard pay. The lawyer filled up that big box once on a previous trip.

And that box was Cayle's nest egg, not Mike's.

I think they didn't get it, and little Cayle has a big surprise on her 18th birthday.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I'm not sure if they had a search warrant yet when they caught him with the suitcase of money. Without a search warrant, can they open his safe deposit boxes?

But they probably could get a search warrant after they arrested him with the suitcase of money. Then they would ask the bank to open all of his safe deposit boxes. And find Kaylee's money.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> But they probably could get a search warrant after they arrested him with the suitcase of money. Then they would ask the bank to open all of his safe deposit boxes. And find Kaylee's money.


But they can't attribute that money to Mike's money. It could have been there before, and maybe the lawyer was taking money _out_ of the big box? There's no audit trail or evidence for that box of cash. All they have is the cash he has in his suitcase, and whatever they found in his apartment (Mike's cash).


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

john4200 said:


> The reason I think Walt needs to make Mike's body disappear is because if the body is found, Jesse might find out. And Jesse would think, hmmm, Walt was probably the last person to see Mike alive.
> 
> As I wrote before, the car does NOT need to disappear. Just cleaned and left in a plausible meet up place.


That's a good point about Jesse. I don't see law enforcement finding the body necessarily being a problem for Walt, but I do think Jesse would kill Walt if he thought Walt killed Mike. Walt can deny it, but Jesse can figure it out. So Walt needs Jesse to believe that Mike got away and is living on an island somewhere.



Hank said:


> Yeah, but "nest egg" could mean the significant balance of the $5mill that the lawyer still had been holding to distribute to the legacy 9 for hazard pay. The lawyer filled up that big box once on a previous trip.
> 
> And that box was Cayle's nest egg, not Mike's.
> 
> I think they didn't get it, and little Cayle has a big surprise on her 18th birthday.


Even though you just agreed with me, Hank, I'm going to disagree with you. I think the DEA got all the boxes. The bank knows which boxes the lawyer was accessing (his name would have to be on the boxes for him to access them) plus the lawyer was talking to the DEA and giving up what he knew, and the one guy the DEA really wanted was Mike. Doesn't matter that the granddaughter's name was on the box - the DEA got it.



john4200 said:


> I'm not sure if they had a search warrant yet when they caught him with the suitcase of money. Without a search warrant, can they open his safe deposit boxes?
> 
> But they probably could get a search warrant after they arrested him with the suitcase of money. Then they would ask the bank to open all of his safe deposit boxes. And find Kaylee's money.


If the DEA didn't have a search warrant then, it seems safe to assume that they were able to get one and access the boxes.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> But they can't attribute that money to Mike's money. It could have been there before, and maybe the lawyer was taking money _out_ of the big box? There's no audit trail or evidence for that box of cash. All they have is the cash he has in his suitcase, and whatever they found in his apartment (Mike's cash).


Of course they can trace it to Mike. What are you talking about?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think so. Walt shot through the window, it went into Mike's gut, and that was the only shot that Mike took.
> ...


Wow. I need to get better glasses or a better TV. I even replayed it and swear that Walt grabbed the second gun that Mike was holding on his gut. I musta been really tired.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

tivoboyjr said:


> I think the DEA got all the boxes. The bank knows which boxes the lawyer was accessing (his name would have to be on the boxes for him to access them) plus the lawyer was talking to the DEA and giving up what he knew, and the one guy the DEA really wanted was Mike. Doesn't matter that the granddaughter's name was on the box - the DEA got it.


I thought this was so obvious that it did not need saying, but I was probably wrong about that, so it is good that you wrote it out.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

netringer said:


> Wow. I need to get better glasses or a better TV. I even replayed it and swear that Walt grabbed the second gun that Mike was holding on his gut. I musta been really tired.


Mike was holding a second gun. But we never heard a second gunshot.

So your glasses are fine. Maybe you need a hearing aid? 

I guess DevdogAZ's phrasing was ambiguous. The "shot that Mike took" means the bullet that hit Mike, not a bullet that Mike fired.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Not that he cares, but Jesse had been shut out of his $5mil by Walt.

And the $5mil that Mike got was an advance from the Phoenix guys, so Walt is $5mil ($10mil) in the hole.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

netringer said:


> Wow. I need to get better glasses or a better TV. I even replayed it and swear that Walt grabbed the second gun that Mike was holding on his gut. I musta been really tired.


Mike was holding a gun and Walt took it away, but there is no indication Mike shot himself with the gun.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

netringer said:


> Wow. I need to get better glasses or a better TV. I even replayed it and swear that Walt grabbed the second gun that Mike was holding on his gut. I musta been really tired.





john4200 said:


> Mike was holding a second gun. But we never heard a second gunshot.
> 
> So your glasses are fine. Maybe you need a hearing aid?
> 
> I guess DevdogAZ's phrasing was ambiguous. The "shot that Mike took" means the bullet that hit Mike, not a bullet that Mike fired.


Yes, what john said. Mike did have a second gun. Walt took it to keep Mike from shooting Walt. But there was no indication that Mike shot himself, or that that second gun was ever fired.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Priceless....Gomie is the man....


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

I LOVED Saul calling the other lawyer a "clown" - right after they showed his office, with the gigantic blow-up Lady Liberty....yep, you stay classy, Saul! 

I love Bob Odenkirk sooooooooooooooo much!!! 

Poor Mike-not only does he get killed, he has to listen to Walt babble on like an idiot-Let me die in peace, indeed....


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Of course they can trace it to Mike. What are you talking about?


I don't see how they can trace that one big box to Mike's $5 million unless the lawyer tells them about it. It's possible the lawyer cuts a deal with the DEA to tell them about the huge stash of Mike's cash he has back at his office safe and flips on Mike. There's no indication that he also told the DEA about the big box.

The lawyer could have other clients he's working for at the bank. There's no indication of what he did while he was in the safe-deposit room other than the clerk unlocked 10 boxes for him.

And as I said, that money in the box could have always been there from other sources.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

Hank said:


> I don't see how they can trace that one big box to Mike's $5 million unless the lawyer tells them about it. It's possible the lawyer cuts a deal with the DEA to tell them about the huge stash of Mike's cash he has back at his office safe and flips on Mike. There's no indication that he also told the DEA about the big box.


I just don't get how the lawyer can flip on Mike. They made it clear that he wasn't Mike's lawyer, but he seemed to be operating in that capacity - with Mike being a client. Is attorney-client privilege lost when the attorney is caught doing something illegal? Doesn't seem right.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

The DEA said that that lawyer was _representing_ the Legacy 9, but not Mike.

That doesn't mean that the lawyer wasn't employed by Mike outside of the DEA investigation. So yea, he would still be under A-C privilege. But I guess the DEA can break that? I don't know.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

That was great when Mike's lawyer was in the vault and they zoomed out or cut to the DEA agents standing there in the doorway. This is one of those shows where I am rooting for both the bad and good guys.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Despite Walt telling the PHX guys that Jesse is one of the best meth cooks in the country, Walt has always seen Jesse as a little kid and is continuing to treat him that way.


Wow, great episode. RIP, Mike.

As soon as Walt pointed out Jesse as being one of the best cooks in the country, I thought we were going to have a redux of the Gus flashback where Gus' partner got shot in the head at the poolside by the Don. "We don't need two cooks." Jesse (or Walt) was lucky to walk away from that meeting alive.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> I don't see how they can trace that one big box to Mike's $5 million unless the lawyer tells them about it. It's possible the lawyer cuts a deal with the DEA to tell them about the huge stash of Mike's cash he has back at his office safe and flips on Mike. There's no indication that he also told the DEA about the big box.
> 
> The lawyer could have other clients he's working for at the bank. There's no indication of what he did while he was in the safe-deposit room other than the clerk unlocked 10 boxes for him.
> 
> And as I said, that money in the box could have always been there from other sources.


It's pretty simple, actually. By Gomie and his buddies walking in while the lawyer was there with nine boxes unlocked, they've now got reason to believe that anyone with access to those nine boxes is receiving illegal payments. When it just so happens that those nine people are the exact same nine people that used to work for Fring and that the DEA has been squeezing, it's going to be pretty obvious what's going on. Then they'll get court order to force the bank to disclose all the boxes that lawyer has ever had access to. Once they find the money designated for Kaylee, and knowing that they previously found an account in Mike's granddaughter's name, it won't be very difficult to figure that one out either.

And when you add to it the fact that the lawyer decided to testify against Mike, it all adds up to Kaylee not getting a dime.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Regarding the DEA and accessing the safety deposit boxes:

I think it depends on how the lawyer setup the box rentals.

If he set them up in the client's names, the 9 and Cayle, then I think the DEA would have to get warrants for each box on it's merits.

The 9 guys in jail? I'm sure the DEA can demonstrate probable cause. Cayle Ehrmantraut? Not so much.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Then they'll get court order to force the bank to disclose all the boxes that lawyer has ever had access to. *Once they find the money designated for Kaylee, and knowing that they previously found an account in Mike's granddaughter's name, it won't be very difficult to figure that one out either*.


I think that's what they call "Circumstantial Evidence"


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> Do we think the DEA also pinched the huge safe deposit box Mike left for Cayle?
> 
> Or just the leftover cash the lawyer had been storing to distribute to the legacy 9?


I was wondering that too, as you'd like the little girl to get the money.

But as the DEA cleans up that aspect, they'll certainly discover all the boxes that the attorney opened, and one will be the girl's.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

Gomez said the lawyer was going to flip on Mike. There's no reason to believe that doesn't include telling them about the big box, including who it was for and where he got the money.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

nataylor said:


> Gomez said the lawyer was going to flip on Mike. There's no reason to believe that doesn't include telling them about the big box, including who it was for and where he got the money.


But there's also no reason to believe that he does include telling them about the big box. It works both ways.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> But there's also no reason to believe that he does include telling them about the big box. It works both ways.


Not that I know, but when you flip you pretty much babble about everything. The more you tell, the more useful you were. And the more (you hope) your sentence goes down.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

Hank said:


> But there's also no reason to believe that he does include telling them about the big box. It works both ways.


The more he tells them, the more value he has and the less his chance of being prosecuted for anything. So I'd say its certainly more likely than not he will tell them.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> I think that's what they call "Circumstantial Evidence"


Not when combined with the lawyer's testimony.


Hank said:


> But there's also no reason to believe that he does include telling them about the big box. It works both ways.


Except that Saul stated later in the episode that the money had been confiscated by the DEA.

Just like the "spoiler" in last week's podcast, I don't understand why we're even talking about this.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

nataylor said:


> The more he tells them, the more value he has and the less his chance of being prosecuted for anything. So I'd say its certainly more likely than not he will tell them.


Right, but there's plenty to tell about the Legacy 9 _and_ Mike without talking about Cayle's box. The DEA was hot for nailing Mike (and the 9 crew), which is exactly what they got. If I were the lawyer, I would only tell them what they wanted to know. He is a lawyer, after all and knows the system. He's the same guy that went around with Mike to the Legacy 9 in jail and covered his ears during Mike's conversations. So he's no dummy when it comes to plausible deniability.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Except that Saul stated later in the episode that the money had been confiscated by the DEA.


But that was a very vague comment. I believe he was talking about the balance of the $5million still left to distribute that the attorney was storing/distributing. Not including Cayle's box of cash.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> But that was a very vague comment. I believe he was talking about the balance of the $5million still left to distribute that the attorney was storing/distributing. Not including Cayle's box of cash.


Except that Saul said that Mike's "nest egg" had been taken twice. The first time, they took his nest egg by confiscating the money that was in the account designated for Kaylee. This time, the money that the lawyer was holding wasn't for Mike. It was already designated for the Legacy 9. So for the DEA to take Mike's "nest egg" a second time, it had to be Kaylee's money again.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Don't think so. The hazard pay was just a portion of the $5 million. Cayle's share was another portion. Mike's portion was the net of those two, which I assume, along with the hazard pay, the lawyer was holding for Mike so it wouldn't turn up in any search warrants on Mike's assets or property.

Mike's "nest egg" wouldn't be Cayle's box of cash.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

It does not matter whether the lawyer volunteered information about Kaylee's box. When the DEA presents the search warrant to the bank, the bank would open all of the boxes that the lawyer has access to. That includes Kaylee's box. With the note, the DEA people would obviously recognize Kaylee as Mike's granddaughter and things would proceed from there. It could be traced to Mike even if the lawyer did not give up the information once the DEA found the box and asked him about it (which he almost surely would have).

I cannot believe I actually have to type this out, I would have thought it was obvious.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I'm still not so sure it's so obvious. There's no physical audit trail of the boxes the clerk opened for the lawyer. In fact, she only remembered 8 out of the 9 of them correctly, but messed up on the last box. The lawyer had to remind her of the correct 9th box number. Then he threw in the tenth box "I've got a new one for you" (Cayle's box). It's quite possible that she might not remember them all when the DEA comes in with a warrant, especially under pressure.


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## thebigmo (Feb 12, 2005)

All the DEA needs is the key ring the lawyer had with all the keys to all the boxes. They don't need the bank lady to remember all of them.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> I'm still not so sure it's so obvious. There's no physical audit trail of the boxes the clerk opened for the lawyer. In fact, she only remembered 8 out of the 9 of them correctly, but messed up on the last box. The lawyer had to remind her of the correct 9th box number. Then he threw in the tenth box "I've got a new one for you" (Cayle's box). It's quite possible that she might not remember them all when the DEA comes in with a warrant, especially under pressure.


Do you really think the entirety of the bank's institutional knowledge about which boxes the lawyer had access to was contained in that teller's brain? Of course not. The bank keeps records, and when the DEA presents a search warrant or a court order, the bank will provide the records showing which boxes the lawyer had keys to. There's absolutely no way that Kaylee's money was left untouched after the lawyer got busted by Gomie.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

The first time we saw the lawyer go into the box vault, the clerk opened all of the "9" boxes, then the lawyer said he had one more for her to open, so she opened Caylee's.

The lawyer then filled the box to the top, and made a point of telling Mike that Caylee would need a new box if he wanted to give anymore money to her.

I'm thinking they'll only look into the boxes he had opened at the time they found him.

Since Caylee's box wasn't in the batch that was opened when the DEA showed up, there isn't a reason for them to even suspect there is a huge box with millions in it and a birthday card for Caylee.


phox


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Regina said:


> I LOVED Saul calling the other lawyer a "clown" - right after they showed his office, with the gigantic blow-up Lady Liberty....yep, you stay classy, Saul!
> 
> I love Bob Odenkirk sooooooooooooooo much!!!
> 
> Poor Mike-not only does he get killed, he has to listen to Walt babble on like an idiot-Let me die in peace, indeed....


Whiteboard failure alert! AKA How they changed the story as the series went along.

We first saw Mike E. as Saul's fixer. He cleaned up Jane's house. He later(?) worked for Mr. Big as he bugged Walt's house.

And remember when Saul told Walt "This is the guy so careful, so below the radar, he never gets caught?" That was Gus.

Now we have Mike saying to Saul, "I want you to handle it, because I pay _you_."

We had Mike as Saul's fixer, now Saul works for Mike.

Mike was Gus's main guy, too, "Head of Corporate Security."

It can all be valid at the same time, but I think there's a bit of "another week, another story" with the writers. Jonathan Banks said as far as he knew he was only doing that first bit (bugging Walt's house?) but they liked him.

I still can't believe how different he looks from his old self with hair and fewer wrinkles.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Do you really think the entirety of the bank's institutional knowledge about which boxes the lawyer had access to was contained in that teller's brain? Of course not. The bank keeps records, and when the DEA presents a search warrant or a court order, the bank will provide the records showing which boxes the lawyer had keys to. There's absolutely no way that Kaylee's money was left untouched after the lawyer got busted by Gomie.


I think Hank is messing with us at this point.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

netringer said:


> Now we have Mike saying to Saul, "I want you to handle it, because I pay _you_."
> 
> We had Mike as Saul's fixer, now Saul works for Mike.


Professional courtesy/payment in kind. Mike worked for Gus and Saul. Saul took care of any legal issues Mike might have, like laundering money or taking care of Cayle's bank account (these are just _examples_)



uncdrew said:


> I think Hank is messing with us at this point.


Nope. I think the DEA had no real reason to suspect anything other than the Legacy 9, and nine safe deposit boxes matches up real nice. Sure, the DEA got the balance of Mike's $5mill ("Mike's second 'nest egg'"), but not Cayle's. But I'm not going to argue it anymore beyond what I already said.

Most of you all thought I was wrong about the Phoenix crew using a P2P cook and wanting the methylmine to cook with _and_ get it out of Heisenberg's hands (off the market). But I got that right.

Most of you also thought I was wrong when I said that Walt was going to just cook for the Phoenix crew and let them handle distribution and sales. Most of you said that Walt would never work (cook) for anyone else again and that's not his idea of an "empire." But that's exactly what he's doing now. And I got that right, too.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

netringer said:


> It can all be valid at the same time, but I think there's a bit of "another week, another story" with the writers. Jonathan Banks said as far as he knew he was only doing that first bit (bugging Walt's house?) but they liked him.


According to Banks, he was only hired on because Bob Odenkirk wasn't available at one point. It was supposed to be Saul who went over to clean up after Jane died. The Mike character evolved from there.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

How long is it going to take Todd to realize that he can make more money from stealing the 40-50 pounds that one cook generates than from getting paid for multiple cooks?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> Nope. I think the DEA had no real reason to suspect anything other than the Legacy 9, and nine safe deposit boxes matches up real nice. Sure, the DEA got the balance of Mike's $5mill ("Mike's second 'nest egg'"), but not Cayle's.


I don't understand why you insist on ignoring the obvious. Of course the bank told the DEA about Kaylee's box (which you persist in misspelling). The DEA already confiscated the money Mike put under Kaylee's name once. There is no doubt that they would do it again. Zero. You are defending the indefensible.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

ferrumpneuma said:


> Did they show Mike expire?


He keeled over. They did not show Walt taking his pulse to confirm.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

ferrumpneuma said:


> Did they show Mike expire?


They showed him flop over. Technically in the next episode Walt could do something to revive him. But stuff like that never seems to happen on this show. So I am assuming that he is dead.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Hank said:


> Most of you all thought I was wrong about the Phoenix crew using a P2P cook and wanting the methylmine to cook with _and_ get it out of Heisenberg's hands (off the market). But I got that right.
> 
> Most of you also thought I was wrong when I said that Walt was going to just cook for the Phoenix crew and let them handle distribution and sales. Most of you said that Walt would never work (cook) for anyone else again and that's not his idea of an "empire." But that's exactly what he's doing now. And I got that right, too.


you are right about all of this. Except for I don't think Walt is cooking for the Phoenix crew any more than he was cooking for Mike. The Phoneix crew just replaced Mike as his partner.

At least, that's the way the plan was laid out. We'll see how it really turns out.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

nataylor said:


> According to Banks, he was only hired on because Bob Odenkirk wasn't available at one point. It was supposed to be Saul who went over to clean up after Jane died. The Mike character evolved from there.


It works better with Mike doing it. I can't see Saul being that kind of "clean up guy". He would, as he does, have hired guys to do that.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> I don't understand why you insist on ignoring the obvious. Of course the bank told the DEA about Kaylee's box (which you persist in misspelling). The DEA already confiscated the money Mike put under Kaylee's name once. There is no doubt that they would do it again. Zero. You are defending the indefensible.


First of all, I'm not ignoring the obvious. NOTHING is "obvious" unless you were actually in the writer's room and/or Vince Gilligan himself.

Second, you can't say it's "zero" equally as much as I can't say it's 100%. NOBODY actually knows for sure. You don't know one way or the other just as much as I don't know. It's not indefensible. I've already laid out the reasons how and why they DEA might not pick up on that one box, I'm not going to repeat it, therefore, it's not "indefensible". And I'm not the only one, a few other people in this thread have agreed with me.

There are dozens of examples of things in this show which are highly unlikely to happen (usually in Walt's favor/luck) but they still happen. Why is this one any different than all those other ones?



john4200 said:


> The DEA already confiscated the money Mike put under Kaylee's name once. There is no doubt that they would do it again.


And I'm not saying the DEA wouldn't seize the assets _if found_.. I'm saying there's a good chance they won't find it to begin with. Of course, if they find it, they would take it. That's NOT what I'm arguing.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> you are right about all of this. Except for I don't think Walt is cooking for the Phoenix crew any more than he was cooking for Mike. The Phoneix crew just replaced Mike as his partner.
> 
> At least, that's the way the plan was laid out. We'll see how it really turns out.


It's different because Walt is letting the Phoenix crew distribute the meth and collect the cash. Mike was ostensibly on Walt's "team" so he wasn't going to screw over Walt and Jesse. At the same time. Walt had a much tighter control of Mike and Jesse. Remember, _Mike controls the business, and Walt controls Mike_.

As I said above, the Phoenix crew holds all the cards (except the methylamine), so they can easily dictate new terms to Walt, and Walt can't do much except take his ball and go home, and then all he has is Todd.

So yeah, in the end, Walt is just cooking for the Phoenix crew. He has very little ways of controlling them, their distribution methods, the cost on the street, the moles, the "middlemen", etc.

Walt would have done much better by settings an absolute fixed cost per pound of delivered meth, and let the Phoenix crew just buy it wholesale. But by setting a percentage that he wants (65%), he's leaving himself open to be royally screwed by the Phoenix crew.

In fact, if Walt set a fixed price per pound, I'd agree that he's not working for the Phoenix crew and he's just an independent contractor, but with a percentage, he most certainly at their mercy.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> And I'm not saying the DEA wouldn't seize the assets _if found_.. I'm saying there's a good chance they won't find it to begin with.


And you are obviously wrong. Of course the DEA would find Kaylee's box. There is no doubt. Zero. You are defending the indefensible. You are obviously completely wrong. Why do you persist with your nonsense?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

john4200 said:


> And you are obviously wrong. Of course the DEA would find Kaylee's box. There is no doubt. Zero. You are defending the indefensible. You are obviously completely wrong. Why do you persist with your nonsense?


why is it so important to you?


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

Why do these threads always turn into 2 or 3 people arguing the same, completely irrelevant point?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> And you are obviously wrong. Of course the DEA would find Kaylee's box. There is no doubt. Zero. You are defending the indefensible. You are obviously completely wrong. Why do you persist with your nonsense?


How can you say that with absolute certainty? How can you say I'm "completely wrong"?

Talk about indefensible. Sheesh.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dimented said:


> Why do these threads always turn into 2 or 3 people arguing the same, completely irrelevant point?





Anubys said:


> why is it so important to you?


I wonder this about him and Hank all the time. They just have to be right...

Of course, that's why they're on my I.L.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> why is it so important to you?


why do you care?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> How can you say that with absolute certainty? How can you say I'm "completely wrong"?


Because you obviously are. The obvious has already been explained to you twice. Here's a third time. When the DEA presents the search warrant (or court order or whatever) to the bank, the bank will check their records and find all the safe deposit boxes which the lawyer has access to, including Kaylee's, and then open them and show them to the DEA. Then the DEA would take the cash, including Kaylee's, since it could easily be linked to Mike.

I'm wondering if you don't understand how things work. The DEA would be in a lot of trouble if they just used the lawyer's keys to open safe deposit boxes without a warrant or court order -- any evidence they obtained that way would not hold up in court. Assuming they did not have a warrant when they first showed up, all they could do was confiscate what was already in plain sight (the suitcase full of money, the one open box). But the DEA would obviously get a judge to issue a warrant, then they would come back and get the bank to give them all the other safe deposit boxes.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> Of course, that's why they're on my I.L.


This must be at least his tenth post about people on his ignore list. Has to be the most publicized ignore list in history...


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## EscapeGoat (Oct 12, 2008)

dimented said:


> Why do these threads always turn into 2 or 3 people arguing the same, completely irrelevant point?


Maybe next season we can have separate 'Nitpicking' and 'Non-nitpicking' threads.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

john4200 said:


> why do you care?


It's a research into how big an idiot some people are.


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## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

Chekovs Safety Deposit Box


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Even Sepinwall agrees:



> From the Comments Section:
> 
> Alan, you say "and for the second time this season, got their hands on money he had intended for his granddaughter Kaylee". Isn't there a chance that Kaylee's money is safe? The lawyer put it in a different safe deposit box than the ones he used for the regular payments - I think there's a chance that the DEA doesn't know about that box. Or am I forgetting something?
> AUGUST 28, 2012 AT 11:12AM EST
> ...


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Anubys said:


> It's a research into how big an idiot some people are.


:up::up::up:


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

mwhip said:


> Even Sepinwall agrees:


Then it must be obvious!


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Because you obviously are. The obvious has already been explained to you twice. Here's a third time. When the DEA presents the search warrant (or court order or whatever) to the bank, the bank will check their records and find all the safe deposit boxes which the lawyer has access to, including Kaylee's, and then open them and show them to the DEA. Then the DEA would take the cash, including Kaylee's, since it could easily be linked to Mike.
> 
> I'm wondering if you don't understand how things work. The DEA would be in a lot of trouble if they just used the lawyer's keys to open safe deposit boxes without a warrant or court order -- any evidence they obtained that way would not hold up in court. Assuming they did not have a warrant when they first showed up, all they could do was confiscate what was already in plain sight (the suitcase full of money, the one open box). But the DEA would obviously get a judge to issue a warrant, then they would come back and get the bank to give them all the other safe deposit boxes.


You keep saying that "it's obvious." I don't think that word means what you think it means.

But I'll tell you again, that's all just YOUR OPINION. Like ass*oles, everybody has one.

And I understand "how things work". I also understand that people and organizations make mistakes and overlook things.

You can NOT say, with 100% certainty that it will happen that way. I can say with some degree of certainty that *it's possible* it could happen a different way. That's all I'm saying, it's possible. And it is. You're saying it's 100% not possible. THAT IS INDEFENSIBLE. It seems like you're the one that doesn't understand "how things work".


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mwhip said:


> Even Sepinwall agrees:


I agree with Alan, except he got one detail wrong. He said that the lawyer was accessing Kaylee's box on the day he got busted. This isn't true. He accessed that box the one time, and presumably the plan was for it not to be opened again for 10+ years. However, that doesn't really matter. The lawyer had access to it, the bank would know that, and the bank would cooperate with the DEA. The bank would have nothing to gain (and much to lose) by not disclosing that final box to the DEA.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

It should have gone like this:

"Say my name."

---"Say your name?"

"SAY MY NAME!"

-- "I'll say your name.."

NSFW: "Look at me."
--"LOOK AT YOU?"


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> You can NOT say, with 100% certainty that it will happen that way. I can say with some degree of certainty that *it's possible* it could happen a different way. That's all I'm saying, it's possible.


Finally you are beginning to understand! You went from your initial ridiculous claim that it is likely, to now just grasping at technicalities and saying it is possible. Sure, it is possible. It is also possible that aliens may have come down and taken Kaylee's money away before the DEA could get it. Or that, by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, all of Kaylee's money tunneled quantum-mechanically into a neighboring box and the DEA never found it. It is good of you to point out these things.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Finally you are beginning to understand! You went from your initial ridiculous claim that it is likely, to now just grasping at technicalities and saying it is possible.


I'm not grasping at technicalities. It is fully within the realm of realistic possibilities that the DEA doesn't get a hold of the big box. That's all I'm saying. I also never said it was likely. By the way, I never called your OPINION "ridiculous."

I'll be laughing all the way to the bank when they reveal during the series finale (next year) that Kaylee got her big birthday box.

Oh good god, I'm done here.


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## bobino (Jul 24, 2002)

Does the DEA have access to all boxes touched by the attorney at the bank just because he is busted accessing a certain box? (in this case, a certain 9 other boxes)

I don't think so, even if he accesses other boxes on the same day as he accessed a box connected with known criminal activity. The lawyer still has ACP for other clients. The DEA won't get search warrants to access other boxes at the bank.

When I have had a safe deposit box at a bank, every access is signed on a little card every time I made access to the box. The bank notes the time and date. When I shared a box with my wife, we both were named as owners of the box and our names and signatures were what gave us access (along with a photo ID). Just having a key does not get you access to a safe deposit box. The entire box access scene was not particularly realistic.

Nonetheless, how is Kaylee going to access this box when she turns 18?

The busted lawyer is not Mike's attorney. He is most likely Kaylee's attorney. The arrested attorney would have granted her access when she turns 18. Since he is very unlikely to still be practicing law, the busted attorney will transfer his other clients to another attorney. That new lawyer will grant access to the box for Kaylee. Hence, the money is safe for Kaylee. 

-Bob


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> I'm not grasping at technicalities. It is fully within the realm of realistic possibilities that the DEA doesn't get a hold of the big box. That's all I'm saying. I also never said it was likely.


Oh, drat, now you are backsliding. It is definitely NOT "in the realm of realistic possibilities" that the DEA will fail to find Kaylee's money.



Hank said:


> I'm saying there's a good chance they won't find it to begin with.


You need to work on your word choice. A "good chance" equates with "likely" to many people. If you meant there was a small chance, then you should have written "small chance". Or more accurately, "infinitesimal chance".

As for laughing if the Breaking Bad writers write something ridiculous in the future, I'd say you have a good chance of getting to laugh at them. The writers do write some ridiculous things.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

netringer said:


> It should have gone like this:


Or this... [Possibly NSFW?]



Spoiler


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

bobino said:


> Does the DEA have access to all boxes touched by the attorney at the bank just because he is busted accessing a certain box? (in this case, a certain 9 other boxes)
> 
> I don't think so, even if he accesses other boxes on the same day as he accessed a box connected with known criminal activity. The lawyer still has ACP for other clients. The DEA won't get search warrants to access other boxes at the bank.


That is very unlikely. In cases where people are caught with large amounts of dirty cash, the judges and law enforcement are usually quite liberal in confiscating it. The DEA would have no trouble getting a judge to agree to let them open all the boxes the lawyer had access to. Especially if one of the boxes was in the name of Mike's granddaughter, who was just recently found to have an account into which Mike had been storing dirty money (although I doubt Mike would have let them put the box in her name, it is probably just in the lawyer's name and maybe some fictitious name or trust).


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> Oh, drat, now you are backsliding. It is definitely NOT "in the realm of realistic possibilities" that the DEA will fail to find Kaylee's money.


Once again, still only your OPINION. Not fact. I don't think you can understand the difference.



john4200 said:


> You need to work on your word choice. A "good chance" equates with "likely" to many people. If you meant there was a small chance, then you should have written "small chance". Or more accurately, "infinitesimal chance".


Now who's the one "grasping at technicalities"?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> As for laughing if the Breaking Bad writers write something ridiculous in the future, I'd say you have a good chance of getting to laugh at them. The writers do write some ridiculous things.


Now who's backsliding? Now you're saying if it is possible, it's the writer's fault.

Nice.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Somebody mentioned that Mike's $5million was an advance from the Phx crew...I don't believe that to be the case. Walt specifically said to think of it as a finder's fee. I don't believe that Walt is in debt to them for $5million.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Be quiet you two.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Somebody mentioned that Mike's $5million was an advance from the Phx crew...I don't believe that to be the case. Walt specifically said to think of it as a finder's fee. I don't believe that Walt is in debt to them for $5million.


Assuming Walt actually cooks for them. If not, I would imagine they'd want their money back.

PS - Thanks for changing the subject. I was about to ask what Todd should feed the tarantula.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> Once again, still only your OPINION. Not fact. I don't think you can understand the difference.


I understand that I am explaining facts about how law enforcement works, and you are making nonsense claims. And that you are claiming you did not write things that you did write just a few posts ago.

Now, if it is your OPINION that I don't know that the Breaking Bad writers have a tendency to write some ridiculous things, then your opinion is incorrect. I never claimed to be able to predict what the writers will write in the future. I was consistently writing about what would actually happen in such a situation. There is little point in speculating what the writers will write in the future, since they often deviate quite far from reality.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

I'd like to think Mike was smart enough and worked it out so his granddaughter has a nice chunk of change coming to her when she turns 18. Unless they explicitly show otherwise (which I don't think they have) that's what I'll think.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> Now you're saying if it is possible, it's the writer's fault.


No, I never said that. Realistically, it is not possible that the DEA would fail to find Kaylee's box. I have consistently written that. I never made a claim either way about what the writers would write in the future *about Kaylee's box*.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

tivoboyjr said:


> I was about to ask what Todd should feed the tarantula.


Blue meth. It would be interesting to see a spider on speed.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Test said:


> I'd like to think Mike was smart enough and worked it out so his granddaughter has a nice chunk of change coming to her when she turns 18. Unless they explicitly show otherwise (which I don't think they have) that's what I'll think.


Me too.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

john4200 said:


> As for laughing if the Breaking Bad writers write something ridiculous in the future, I'd say you have a good chance of getting to laugh at them. The writers do write some ridiculous things.





john4200 said:


> . I never made a claim either way about what the writers would write in the future.


Does not compute.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Can we get back to talking about Todd for a bit? I have only just caught up to the point where I'm watching them weekly, and I don't remember seeing a lot of things that would make Todd look like a loose cannon or an idiot. Someone fill me in? When he shot the kid, I thought it made sense and would have expected that from someone who regularly robbed houses and the like.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Test said:


> I'd like to think Mike was smart enough and worked it out so his granddaughter has a nice chunk of change coming to her when she turns 18. *Unless they explicitly show otherwise* (which I don't think they have) that's what I'll think.


Does Saul stating explicitly in the episode count?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hank said:


> Does not compute.


I was talking about what the writers would write about Kaylee's box. I thought that would be obvious, but since you are involved, I went back and edited my post to make it explicit.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

EscapeGoat said:


> Maybe next season we can have separate 'Nitpicking' and 'Non-nitpicking' threads.


Huh....that's WAY beyond nitpicking....


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

TAsunder said:


> When he shot the kid, I thought it made sense and would have expected that from someone who regularly robbed houses and the like.


Wow, really? I would never expect anyone to casually shoot a kid, unless I already knew that they were a ruthless SOB.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Can we get back to talking about Todd for a bit? I have only just caught up to the point where I'm watching them weekly, and I don't remember seeing a lot of things that would make Todd look like a loose cannon or an idiot. Someone fill me in? When he shot the kid, I thought it made sense and would have expected that from someone who regularly robbed houses and the like.


I agree. While it was completely cold-hearted to shoot the kid like he did, it fit perfectly with the needs of the plot and the character. He then explained himself well when they were back at the warehouse. I think the only things he's done that are questionable are mentioning that he has relatives in jail, and then taking the tarantula (presumably as some kind of trophy).


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Wow, really? I would never expect anyone to casually shoot a kid, unless I already knew that they were a ruthless SOB.


Seriously? After it was drilled into Todd (and the viewers) earlier in the episode that there are heists that work, and heists that leave witnesses. And that absolutely nobody else can ever know about this? Given those parameters set out earlier in the episode, what options were realistically available to them when they turned off the generator and saw the kid sitting there?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I agree. While it was completely cold-hearted to shoot the kid like he did, it fit perfectly with the needs of the plot and the character. He then explained himself well when they were back at the warehouse. I think the only things he's done that are questionable are mentioning that he has relatives in jail, and then taking the tarantula (presumably as some kind of trophy).


Right. And he seems a lot brighter than Jesse when it comes to learning the cook method and wanting to do a good job. I don't doubt that there could be a fun plot twist with Todd, I just don't get why people think so poorly of him currently.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> Most of you all thought I was wrong about the Phoenix crew using a P2P cook and wanting the methylmine to cook with _and_ get it out of Heisenberg's hands (off the market). But I got that right.


No. Only one person didn't agree on that one. Seemed obvious they were buying the supply to both use it and cripple the competition.

The cops find little girls' money. Way too many very easy reasons this will happen. The only way it doesn't happen is a rare set of events.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Does Saul stating explicitly in the episode count?


I don't get the confusion over this, either, but I've moved on.



TAsunder said:


> Can we get back to talking about Todd for a bit? I have only just caught up to the point where I'm watching them weekly, and I don't remember seeing a lot of things that would make Todd look like a loose cannon or an idiot. Someone fill me in? When he shot the kid, I thought it made sense and would have expected that from someone who regularly robbed houses and the like.


I think Todd is both a loose cannon and an idiot. It wasn't his decision or his "place," as Mike would say, to shoot the kid, and Walt/Mike/Jesse didn't even know Todd had a gun. It's Todd's place to shoot the kid if one of his bosses tell him to shoot the kid. He did it on his own. That makes him a loose cannon.

As for being an idiot, I think Todd is much dumber than Jesse. Jesse is uneducated, immature, impulsive, an addict and so on, but he's also shown on more than one occasion that he is capable of critical thinking. And while Jesse was able to learn the meth recipe, I don't think Todd would ever be able to learn it (based on what I've seen of him so far).

Now Todd is much more of a "thug" than Jesse and could come in handy, but he could also be a liability - due to being a loose cannon and an idiot.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Test said:


> I'd like to think Mike was smart enough and worked it out so his granddaughter has a nice chunk of change coming to her when she turns 18. Unless they explicitly show otherwise (which I don't think they have) that's what I'll think.


He did. He assumed that an attorney dealing with no other part of his criminal activities wouldn't be followed.

He was wrong.

So actually, it wasn't a very good plan. It was better than doing it himself. But he should not have used the attorney of 9 people conducting criminal activities. He should have used a different attorney just for the Kaylee stuff.

But this attorney got pinched. Pinched by Hank who has an enormous bug up his butt to solve this. So everything this attorney ever touched will get investigated. Kaylee gets nothing.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Does Saul stating explicitly in the episode count?


I guess I missed that part. Are you sure he explicitly said that?



tivoboyjr said:


> I don't get the confusion over this, either, but I've moved on.


No confusion.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Todd will either bring down Walt, or create a new set of headaches for him.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Test said:


> I guess I missed that part. Are you sure he explicitly said that?


Saul said that the DEA got Mike's nest egg. It remains unclear if that includes Kaylee's next egg.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> The cops find little girls' money. Way too many very easy reasons this will happen. _*The only way it doesn't happen is a rare set of events*_.


You mean like every other major scene in the show?


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Hank said:


> Saul said that the DEA got Mike's nest egg. It remains unclear if that includes Kaylee's nest egg.


Right, that's what I thought he said.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Sometimes these threads can really suck the fun/life out of this show.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> Seriously? After it was drilled into Todd (and the viewers) earlier in the episode that there are heists that work, and heists that leave witnesses. And that absolutely nobody else can ever know about this?


I agree that there was a logical reason to kill the boy. But the vast majority of human beings I know well have a strong aversion to harming children. Most people would not just shoot a kid even if there was a highly logical reason to do so. I don't know many home robbers, but I would tend to give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume that most home robbers are psychopaths. So, yes, seriously.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Sometimes these threads can really suck the fun/life out of this show.


It's moving from sometimes to oftentimes.


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

My guess:



Spoiler



Todd will get hired by the dealers after learning the cook and Walt will die.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

New topic:

Did Walt go to meet Mike with the intent of harming Mike?

Did Walt return back to Mike's car (when he shot him) with the intention of harming Mike?

I interpreted that scene as Walt having no intention to harm Mike, either initially or when he went back to the car, but that he was simply trying to play the part of Heisenberg and act like a badass. However, when he got to Mike's window, he was startled, the gun went off, and Mike was shot. I don't think Walt had any intention of that happening.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> New topic:
> 
> Did Walt go to meet Mike with the intent of harming Mike?
> 
> ...


That's hard to say: Did he take the gun to protect himself incase Mike wanted to kill him, or did he take the gun to force Mike to give him those names?

I agree with the poster who said that is the problem with having a loaded gun in your posession....it might lead you to do somethign you wouldn't normally do.

Walt seemed genuinely upset so I'm leaning towards not intending to shoot Mike but things getting out of control when Mike wouldn't give up the names.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I personally don't think there is any chance that Todd learns how to do the cook. He had the same look on his face going over his notes as I do when I look at electrical diagrams....


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

pmyers said:


> I personally don't think there is any chance that Todd learns how to do the cook. He had the same look on his face going over his notes as I do when I look at electrical diagrams....


That might have been after the first cook. However since Walter wants to do two a week, I think you could get the gist of what needs to be done in about 2 months. You might not understand 100% the why of each step, but know what to do in each step.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> New topic:
> 
> Did Walt go to meet Mike with the intent of harming Mike?
> 
> ...


Well, Walt took the gun out of Mike's bag. Not absolutely an indication that Walt intended to harm Mike, but a maybe.

Then when Walt went up to Mike's window, I think, yes, Walt intended to shoot and intended to harm Mike. Walt was peeved and was acting out. He was shaken after pulling the trigger but I believe he intended to pull the trigger.

It's also possible that Walt intended to kill Mike during the meet up, then he got cold feet but after the argument he was angry enough that he went ahead and shot Mike. Walt knows that if Mike gets caught, Walt is screwed, so it would make sense that he would want to take out Mike - apart from acting on emotion.

I didn't get how Walt didn't see Mike get out of the car, as the driver's door seemed to be in Walt's line of sight, but I didn't bother rewinding to look again as it didn't seem to matter given the way things worked out.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

The "52 Ways to Organize" page (as per the link in the Happy Hour thread) has a link to this, which is mildly amusing:

35 Reasons Why Aaron Paul Should Be Your Favorite Actor On Television


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## BK89 (Oct 11, 2005)

The way I saw it, Walt had no intention of killing Mike. The only reason he shot him was because of his ego - Mike should have kept his mouth shut. Walt did give Mike his bag of money after all, minus the gun of course. If Walt had planned to kill him, why hand him the bag at all? Just walk up and shoot him. Or better yet, why even risk going to the airport at all? Walt put himself at a pretty big risk had DEA or police been watching the car at the airport.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

BK89 said:


> The way I saw it, Walt had no intention of killing Mike. The only reason he shot him was because of his ego - Mike should have kept his mouth shut. Walt did give Mike his bag of money after all, minus the gun of course. If Walt had planned to kill him, why hand him the bag at all? Just walk up and shoot him. Or better yet, why even risk going to the airport at all? Walt put himself at a pretty big risk had DEA or police been watching the car at the airport.


But if Walt doesn't get out of his car with the bag, Mike is then suspicious and on the defensive, and Mike is likely to have a gun on him and not simply be relying on the gun being in the bag. Even if Walt planned to kill Mike all along, it seems to me that Walt would have taken this step to ensure that Mike didn't shoot him first.

One could also ask why Mike agreed to let Walt bring him the bag. Seems to me that the Mike we know would not have done that. Walt's the last person he'd want to do that. (I would have had Huell do it.) But that final confrontation needed to happen, and that's how we got there.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Why was the shady lawyer taking goodies to the bank lady? I kept thinking she was doing something illegal for him, but then you'd probably need more than a few cookies to make you break the law. So he's just a nice guy?


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Why was the shady lawyer taking goodies to the bank lady? I kept thinking she was doing something illegal for him, but then you'd probably need more than a few cookies to make you break the law. So he's just a nice guy?


She wasn't doing anything illegal and I don't believe she knew he was doing anything illegal. What he was doing was at least a little suspicious - most people don't bring in big cases and access several safe deposit boxes on a regular basis. My take on the goodies was simply that he wanted to be on her good side. If he's her favorite customer, she's more at ease and less likely to think he's up to something.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

stellie93 said:


> Why was the shady lawyer taking goodies to the bank lady? I kept thinking she was doing something illegal for him, but then you'd probably need more than a few cookies to make you break the law. So he's just a nice guy?


I guess more likely he is just trying to make sure that the people he sees frequently like him. That is probably a good idea when doing what he does. But he didn't take advantage of it in this case -- it should have been obvious something was wrong when she gave him the cold shoulder. He should have turned around and gone out the door.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Why was the shady lawyer taking goodies to the bank lady? I kept thinking she was doing something illegal for him, but then you'd probably need more than a few cookies to make you break the law. So he's just a nice guy?


Exactly. I think he's just a genuinely nice guy. I also think he knows that the teller knows that when he shows up with a suitcase and wants her to open nine different boxes at once, there's a high likelihood that what he's doing is illegal. So he's probably bringing her the treats to just keep her on his good side and keep her from asking questions or getting suspicious.


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## Bars & Tone (Aug 28, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> ...One could also ask why Mike agreed to let Walt bring him the bag. Seems to me that the Mike we know would not have done that...


I was also surprised that Mike didn't check the contents of the bag as soon as he took it from Walt.
Although that would certainly fit with Mike's character, it wouldn't fit with the way the story was heading.


----------



## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

I'm also confused as to why, having another gun is his possession, Mike didn't just smoke the a**hole. I mean, was he really just resigned at that point? I think the intent was to never ever show Mike acting without purpose and out of emotion. But still, Mike, do us a solid and end him.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mostman said:


> I'm also confused as to why, having another gun is his possession, Mike didn't just smoke the a**hole. I mean, was he really just resigned at that point? I think the intent was to never ever show Mike acting without purpose and out of emotion. But still, Mike, do us a solid and end him.


I think from the moment that Mike had to leave Kaylee at the park, he was totally off his game. You could see it in his face as he looked at Kaylee swinging that it was tearing him up inside because he knew it was likely the last time he'd ever see her and he wasn't even getting a chance to say goodbye. After that, he didn't seem to care much what happened to him, and I think most of his decisions after that showed his lack of focus.

Incidentally, I listened to the podcast and they said that when they were filming the park scene, Jonathan Banks said, "I'll act in whatever scenes the writers put Mike in, but I just want it known for the record that Mike Ehrmantraut would never leave his granddaughter alone at the park like this to save himself."


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Exactly. I think he's just a genuinely nice guy. I also think he knows that the teller knows that when he shows up with a suitcase and wants her to open nine different boxes at once, there's a high likelihood that what he's doing is illegal. So he's probably bringing her the treats to just keep her on his good side and keep her from asking questions or getting suspicious.


I would agree with all that, but also add that it's possible that by getting on her good side and bringing her treats each time, she got to know his specific needs and box numbers very well, and just might skip some of the formal bank procedural routines. Also, it makes sure she's the only one helping him with the boxes, and the fewer people who know about it and the fewer people he interacts with, the lower the chance his activities will raise red flags.


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> New topic:
> 
> Did Walt go to meet Mike with the intent of harming Mike?
> 
> ...


I don't think Walt went to the meeting intending to hurt Mike (although I think he knew that would be a possibility, so that's why he took the gun). But there's no doubt for me he meant to shoot Mike when he returned to the car. He briskly walked up, pointed the gun and shot. No hesitation, no words. He wasn't startled into pulling the trigger. He was surprised the car suddenly took off, but that was about it.


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

mostman said:


> I'm also confused as to why, having another gun is his possession, Mike didn't just smoke the a**hole. I mean, was he really just resigned at that point? I think the intent was to never ever show Mike acting without purpose and out of emotion. But still, Mike, do us a solid and end him.


I don't think he had the strength to raise the gun, let alone aim and pull the trigger. He was fading fast.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

nataylor said:


> I don't think he had the strength to raise the gun, let alone aim and pull the trigger. He was fading fast.


This...he couldn't lift the gun...then just keeled over.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Incidentally, I listened to the podcast and they said that when they were filming the park scene, Jonathan Banks said, "I'll act in whatever scenes the writers put Mike in, but I just want it known for the record that Mike Ehrmantraut would never leave his granddaughter alone at the park like this to save himself."


I think a case could be made that Mike would have done anything necessary to keep her out of harm's way. He would have left her behind if he thought taking her with him would potentially put her in more danger than leaving her behind (or so I rationalize, because I think what the actor says does ring true).


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

danterner said:


> I think a case could be made that Mike would have done anything necessary to keep her out of harm's way. He would have left her behind if he thought taking her with him would potentially put her in more danger than leaving her behind (or so I rationalize, because I think what the actor says does ring true).


That's why I bought it. Going back to talk to her and especially taking her with him would have been selfish and not in her best interest.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I'm bored.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

gchance said:


> I'm bored.


Think about poor Kaylee who will have to grow up like the rest of us without a stack of money in the bank waiting for her.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

gchance said:


> I'm bored.


Ok, how about this? I'm closing on a re-fi on Thursday, and my lawyer's last name is Sahl. Next time he calls me, I'm going to answer: "Better call Sahl!".

Like he hasn't heard that before. I'm still going to do it.


----------



## EscapeGoat (Oct 12, 2008)

Hank said:


> Ok, how about this? I'm closing on a re-fi on Thursday, and my lawyer's last name is Sahl. Next time he calls me, I'm going to answer: "Better call Sahl!".
> 
> Like he hasn't heard that before. I'm still going to do it.


If he does a good job for you, you could buy him a giant inflatable Statue of Liberty as a thank you gift.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

bobino said:


> When I have had a safe deposit box at a bank, every access is signed on a little card every time I made access to the box. The bank notes the time and date. When I shared a box with my wife, we both were named as owners of the box and our names and signatures were what gave us access (along with a photo ID). Just having a key does not get you access to a safe deposit box. The entire box access scene was not particularly realistic.


Normally that would be the case. But I have to wonder why Mike decided to put Kaylee's safe deposit box in the same bank as The Nine. The only reason that would make sense would be if the risk of it being connected with the others was less than the benefit of storing the money in that bank.

So my guess is that the lawyer's relationship with the banker gave him special access to the boxes. I don't think the lawyer picked a random bank, and started buttering up a banker. It was likely someone he already had a relationship with, and thus could convince to help him out.

So if the safe deposit box access was done off-record, the banker didn't remember the extra box she opened the one time, Mike didn't put Kaylee's box in her name, and the lawyer didn't mention it, it's possible the DEA didn't get to Kaylee's money.

The lawyer might have left Kaylee's box out of what he told the DEA hoping that he could use that to convince Mike not to harm him for his other testimony. The lawyer could not testify as to where Mike got the money, so his only usefulness to the DEA was in linking Mike to The Nine. Telling the DEA about Kaylee's box would not have gained him enough more "points" with them to outweigh being able to tell Mike, "As long as no harm comes to me, Kaylee gets her money."

Given the previous account in Kaylee's name that was found, Mike hopefully would have been smart enough to do something different with money for Kaylee this time.

The banker was shown to have forgotten one of the nine boxes that she regularly opened, so it would not be surprising if she had forgotten a box she only opened once.

And finally, Saul's comment about Mike's "nest egg" is only as good as his knowledge of Mike and the DEA's operations. Did he find out that the DEA had gotten all $5 million? Or was he just assuming the DEA had gotten everything? Did he even know about the box for Kaylee?

I think Saul's comment was more of a general "The DEA got your money again" rather than an accounting of how much actual money the DEA had gotten from him. At the very least, Mike had some of that money in his go-bag, so the DEA didn't get absolutely all of it. But I don't think Saul was trying to be completely literal with his statement.

I think it's more likely than not that Kaylee's money was found by the DEA, but I don't think it would be unreasonable if things went the other direction. Maybe the last scene of Breaking Bad, after all the main characters are dead, will be Kaylee celebrating her 18th birthday.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

BitbyBlit said:


> ...The lawyer might have left Kaylee's box out of what he told the DEA hoping that he could use that to convince Mike not to harm him for his other testimony. The lawyer could not testify as to where Mike got the money, so his only usefulness to the DEA was in linking Mike to The Nine. Telling the DEA about Kaylee's box would not have gained him enough more "points" with them to outweigh being able to tell Mike, "As long as no harm comes to me, Kaylee gets her money."...


I could buy this.



BitbyBlit said:


> ...The banker was shown to have forgotten one of the nine boxes that she regularly opened, so it would not be surprising if she had forgotten a box she only opened once....


This I can't buy. It was a MUCH larger box and there were FAR fewer of them, so it's much easier to remember the big one.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> This I can't buy. It was a MUCH larger box and there were FAR fewer of them, so it's much easier to remember the big one.


If she remembered that she had opened the extra box, then I agree that with some thought she could remember which one. That's one of the reasons I think it's more likely than not that Kaylee's money was found. I think she probably did remember.

But it's also possible that opening the extra box that one time didn't seem out of place enough to her for it to stick out in her memory, and it slipped her mind that she had done so.

As viewers, we knew that the first drop-off we saw was a special delivery because Mike had just gotten his $5 million. But to the banker, that was just another delivery. If she didn't care to pay too close of attention to what the lawyer was doing, she might not have put much thought into the fact that he asked her to open an extra box.

Since the DEA was already there when the lawyer was caught, I'm assuming that was at least two drop-offs after the first one we saw. The DEA found out about the bank by following the lawyer during a previous drop-off, and then waited for him during the subsequent one.

So unlike for us, where we saw both drop-offs within a single hour, and we knew that they both must be important because the writers decided to include them in the story, the drop-off with Kaylee's money was one of many spread out over a long period of time to the banker.

And if the lawyer made other regular drop-offs than just the ones for The Nine, that would have added to further cloud the banker's memory of having opened Kaylee's box.

The DEA would have had no reason to suspect that Mike had just gotten a windfall, and thus would not have thought to ask the banker if anything unusual had happened recently. In fact, given that Mike had been keeping The Nine quiet for an extended period of time, they probably figured just the opposite: that he already had plenty of money beyond the Cayman account that he was funneling to them.

Without that line of questioning, I can see the banker who was probably nervous about losing her job for not following procedure and potentially being in trouble with the law not remembering about a single delivery that happened to involve an extra box.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Wow, I wouldn't be suprised or disappointed if the boxes were never mentioned in the show again. 

I would be surprised, but not disappointed, if they were never mentioned in this thread again. 

On a topic not about Kaylee's Box: I liked the camera work in this episode. Kaylee on the swing and the view from inside the (oh no) boxes. 

And speaking of remote locations, these meetups in the desert can be seen from 100 miles away. Hell, they're using drones now. And they go these meetings with meth, methlamine, guns and millions in cash.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Was Mike's car (the one he was shot in) even linkable to him? I don't remember if it was the same car he was driving Jesse around in. I would think he has easy access to a stolen or unregistered car for a getaway. That would be one less thing Walt has to deal with in the cleanup if he does not opt for the "Mike had many enemies and one of them finally got him" angle.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I'm pretty sure Mike left his car at the park with Kaylee. The beat cops were sniffing around it before he left. The last car was like you say, a stolen or otherwise unregistered/traceable car.

<dexter>But there was blood spatter in the car, and they could do a DNA match to DNA they can probably find in Mike's apartment. But why/how would they link the two scenes?</dexter>


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Man, I've got to get to this show quicker. These threads really explode!

First, I can't see the title without hearing it in the Empress's voice in The Neverending Story. "Bastion! Say! My! Name!"

Possibly not what Walt was going for. 

I'm certain the banker remembered opening the tenth box for the lawyer. She was all proud of herself for remembering the numbers on 8 out of 9, meaning it's always 9. She will remember that this time it was 10, and that it was a big one.

Also, I bet he normally comes with a briefcase, not a suitcase. There were only two packs of money in each of the 9 boxes, 18 packs is relatively small and bringing in a briefcase will attract much less attention.

I do think the lawyer is both buttering her up and a genuinely nice guy. If it were just the former he could bring her a box of expensive chocolates each time, no effort required. He was bringing her handmade treats.

Walt didn't intend to shoot Mike, but he did do it on purpose in the heat of the moment and then instantly regretted it. Big character move for someone who's normally so methodical. Dude's comin' undone.

Banks' acting over leaving his granddaughter was sublime.



brianric said:


> I wonder how he kept them charged.














dimented said:


> Why do these threads always turn into 2 or 3 people arguing the same, completely irrelevant point?


A desperate attempt to drive the rest of us out? Fill killfiles?



Hank said:


> Oh good god, I'm done here.


You say that, and yet...


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Robin said:


> ...You say that, and yet...


I know...promises, promises....


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Robin said:


> Hank said:
> 
> 
> > Oh good god, I'm done here.
> ...


Yes, and yet people continued to be totally ignorant about the difference between their own personal OPINION and portraying that opinion as FACT.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

FACT
You guys have blown up the "did they take Kaylee's money" thing a little too far, and have kind of killed the thread because of it.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

robojerk said:


> FACT
> You guys have blown up the "did they take Kaylee's money" thing a little too far, and have kind of killed the thread because of it.


If you have something else you want to discuss, feel free to bring it up. Nobody who is discussing whether or not the DEA took Kaylee's money is saying other Breaking Bad topics are not allowed.

Debates over which Breaking Bad topics are "valid" in a thread do more to distract from discussion of the show than any of the actual points of discussion people have brought up.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

BitbyBlit said:


> Debates over which Breaking Bad topics are "valid" in a thread do more to distract from discussion of the show than any of the actual points of discussion people have brought up.


Uh, no. The endless debate over the SD boxes was as close to a thread killer as I've seen.

It's one thing to discuss it. Even give & take a few times. It's another to beat it to death, over and over, endlessly, post after post, same point again and again, neither side letting up, hash and rehash, like this sentence that never stops.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Can the DEA just "tail" the lawyer for no reason and without some type of warrant or something?


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

robojerk said:


> FACT
> You guys have blown up the "did they take Kaylee's money" thing a little too far, and have kind of killed the thread because of it.


Therefore they are loose cannons and idiots because they did not wait for explicit permission from Heisenberg to kill it.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

It seems odd to me that Mike hid his getaway emergency bag in a place he can't access in an emergency (pardon me if that has been mentioned already).


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Robin said:


> First, I can't see the title without hearing it in the Empress's voice in The Neverending Story. "Bastion! Say! My! Name!"


That has to be better than what I hear in my head when I see the title.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> It seems odd to me that Mike hid his getaway emergency bag in a place he can't access in an emergency (pardon me if that has been mentioned already).


I think it depended on the type of emergency. If Mike had to bug out because of a threat from the Cartel or other drug dealers, going to the airport should not be a problem. If he has to bug out because law enforcement is after him and have him under surveillance, there's probably nowhere safe to hide the bag. So the airport is probably as good a place as any.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Can the DEA just "tail" the lawyer for no reason and without some type of warrant or something?


I think it depends on how extensive their efforts are. As long as the lawyer is in public, he has no expectation of privacy and the DEA can watch him all they want. If that's all they do, it's probably OK (except for the fact that Hank's boss told him there was no further budget for surveillance for this case).


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

astrohip said:


> It's one thing to discuss it. Even give & take a few times. It's another to beat it to death, over and over, endlessly, post after post, same point again and again, neither side letting up, hash and rehash, like this sentence that never stops.


Were people repeating themselves or further elaborating on why they felt a certain way? From my reading of the thread, I see much more of the latter than the former.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it depended on the type of emergency. If Mike had to bug out because of a threat from the Cartel or other drug dealers, going to the airport should not be a problem. If he has to bug out because law enforcement is after him and have him under surveillance, there's probably nowhere safe to hide the bag. So the airport is probably as good a place as any.


And I think part of it was also to keep the money/gun/fake IDs away from himself while the DEA was watching him. He likes to be prepared, so he set it up so that it could be used in an emergency. But given that there was no immediate threat, I think the primary purpose of the car at the airport was as a hiding spot.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it depended on the type of emergency. If Mike had to bug out because of a threat from the Cartel or other drug dealers, going to the airport should not be a problem. If he has to bug out because law enforcement is after him and have him under surveillance, there's probably nowhere safe to hide the bag. So the airport is probably as good a place as any.


I think we've seen (from the money drop pickup episode with Jesse) that there are a million places to hide things. At the time he hid the bag, the most pressing threat was the DEA. It just seemed odd to me. Another one of those "that's not how this person would behave but was needed for the story".


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)




----------



## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it depends on how extensive their efforts are. As long as the lawyer is in public, he has no expectation of privacy and the DEA can watch him all they want. If that's all they do, it's probably OK (except for the fact that Hank's boss told him there was no further budget for surveillance for this case).


Now in Hank's defense (Hank on the show, not Hank in this thread) he was told that there was no further budget for surveillance of Ehrmantraut (sp?) and Hank took that literally as his way around the directive.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I can't wait to see Hank's face when he finally realizes Heisenberg's identity. I'm practically giddy with anticipation.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TampaThunder said:


> Now in Hank's defense (Hank on the show, not Hank in this thread) he was told that there was no further budget for surveillance of Ehrmantraut (sp?) and Hank took that literally as his way around the directive.


Oh, I realize what Hank was doing. But I think we all know what his boss meant.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Jstkiddn said:


> I can't wait to see Hank's face when he finally realizes Heisenberg's identity. I'm practically giddy with anticipation.


Exactly. I hope he figures it out just from all the clues*, as opposed to catching Walt red-handed or on a stake-out, bug, or some such.

*Like realizing back to S01 when all that meth-making equipment was stolen from Walt's high-school lab.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

"Words mean things."


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> And I think part of it was also to keep the money/gun/fake IDs away from himself while the DEA was watching him. He likes to be prepared, so he set it up so that it could be used in an emergency. But given that there was no immediate threat, I think the primary purpose of the car at the airport was as a hiding spot.


Yet he has hiding spots all over the city and desert that only he seems to know about. I'm not sure why he didn't use any of them.

EDIT: I said dessert, not desert. I don't think Mike's hiding things in banana splits -- but I could be wrong.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> Exactly. I hope he figures it out just from all the clues*, as opposed to catching Walt red-handed or on a stake-out, bug, or some such.
> 
> *Like realizing back to S01 when all that meth-making equipment was stolen from Walt's high-school lab.


Agreed.

They could do a very cool scene where he remembers certain tidbits that mean next-to-nothing on their own but add up to the answer he's been searching for.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Agreed.
> 
> They could do a very cool scene where he remembers certain tidbits that mean next-to-nothing on their own but add up to the answer he's been searching for.


Though it seems like if he was going to piece it together, he would have already done it by now. He may have to catch Walt in the act of cooking meth and killing a couple of guys or he'll never figure it out.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

True.

Or just more clues?

I'm a little embarrassed for Hank. I figured out he was cooking meth way back in season 2.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it depends on how extensive their efforts are. As long as the lawyer is in public, he has no expectation of privacy and the DEA can watch him all they want. If that's all they do, it's probably OK (except for the fact that Hank's boss told him there was no further budget for surveillance for this case).


That's a pretty wide net, that's anytime he goes outside.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

When Hank was looking at the one picture of Mike and got interrupted during the meeting were we supposed to notice something in the picture?


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

A long time ago, SNL did a parody of Twin Peaks where the obvious bad guy kept confessing and Agent Cooper (Hank's equivalent in that show) kept investigating other people. The bad guy was doing things like showing photos and video of him killing someone and Agent Cooper kept on going in other directions.

BB isn't there yet, but could be pretty soon.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

fmowry said:


> When Hank was looking at the one picture of Mike and got interrupted during the meeting were we supposed to notice something in the picture?


I think it was just to show Hank's complete obsession with the case, since he totally tuned out during the meeting. This obsession is what might just keep him from realizing that Heisenberg is Walter White.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> A long time ago, SNL did a parody of Twin Peaks where the obvious bad guy kept confessing and Agent Cooper (Hank's equivalent in that show) kept investigating other people. The bad guy was doing things like showing photos and video of him killing someone and Agent Cooper kept on going in other directions.
> 
> BB isn't there yet, but could be pretty soon.


Do you really think it should be so obvious to Hank just yet? I'm not sure.

Plus, right or wrong, we all tend to categorize people into a certain "box". Hank may have to be hit smack over the head with this before he's able to take Walt out of the "nerdy, smart teacher brother-in-law" box and put him into the "meth kingpin Heisenberg" box. That has to be a huge mental leap to make. Almost inconceivable, from his point of view.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> Agreed.
> 
> They could do a very cool scene where he remembers certain tidbits that mean next-to-nothing on their own but add up to the answer he's been searching for.


There are so many other little things... like when Walt and Hank were looking through Gale's notebook, and Hank noticed the initials "W.W." -- Hank was _already_ a little suspicious of Walt, but then Walt deflected it to Walt Whitman.

If I were Hank (he he), I'd be really suspicious why Walt doesn't spend *any* time at or running the car wash. I mean, what else (according to Hank) does Walt have to do? I think we saw that Marie is helping Skyler at the car wash. Wouldn't Marie wonder why Walt is never there?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Jstkiddn said:


> Do you really think it should be so obvious to Hank just yet? I'm not sure...


I don't think it is obvious at all.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

No, not obvious at all.

It's a family member. A milquetoast, boring, humdrum dude. Never done anything wrong. It would be like me thinking my mom is running a meth lab.


MOM?!?

Oh, she's not. Right. 

Anyway, Walt has cancer, is in remission. His life is now crazy and it's hard to know how someone reacts to that. The cancer might even help hide Walt more.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brianric said:


> That's a pretty wide net, that's anytime he goes outside.


Yes. I don't see any problem with that. Do you?


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

What ever became of the drawing of Heisenberg? That still floating around?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Shouldn't there be a goatee on that artwork of Heisenberg?

ETA:
Apparently not!










BTW, that drawing was in Mexico.


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Two bold predictions (which probably won't come true)



Spoiler



Saul ends up the last man standing, and makes off with a bunch of money


and


Spoiler



Hank only realizes Walt is Heisenberg as Walt stands over him to put a bullet in his head


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I really don't think Walt/Heisenberg would ever kill Hank. 

Walt thinks he's too smart to ever get caught. If he does get caught, he'll either take what's due to him (jail), or he'll kill himself first.


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Hank said:


> I really don't think Walt/Heisenberg would ever kill Hank.
> 
> Walt thinks he's too smart to ever get caught. If he does get caught, he'll either take what's due to him (jail), or he'll kill himself first.


old Hank yes. new Hank, no.


----------



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

I think Walt would kill Hank without batting an eye. 
Nothing to do with Hank but,



Spoiler



I think Walt's 'breaking bad' will be 100% complete this Sunday.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> Two bold predictions (which probably won't come true)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I too think that second one comes to pass.

The first one would be awesome. For some reason I really root for that sleezebag.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> I really don't think Walt/Heisenberg would ever kill Hank.
> 
> Walt thinks he's too smart to ever get caught. If he does get caught, he'll either take what's due to him (jail), or he'll kill himself first.


You're factually wrong. Again.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

fmowry said:


> When Hank was looking at the one picture of Mike and got interrupted during the meeting were we supposed to notice something in the picture?


I thought he would see Mike with his laptop or something like that. Something that was not at the house when they searched it.

I'm with you, I thought there was more to that scene than Hank just tuning out because of his obsession.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> Do you really think it should be so obvious to Hank just yet? I'm not sure.
> 
> Plus, right or wrong, we all tend to categorize people into a certain "box". Hank may have to be hit smack over the head with this before he's able to take Walt out of the "nerdy, smart teacher brother-in-law" box and put him into the "meth kingpin Heisenberg" box. That has to be a huge mental leap to make. Almost inconceivable, from his point of view.


I was only about half serious, but I do think we're at the point where it's straining credibility. On the one hand, Hank is this dogged, sharp detective who's obsessed with this case. On the other hand, his brother-in-law is the guy he's looking for and Walt's throwing up red flags right and left and Hank seems blind to them.

The built-in justification in the show, as you stated, is that it's so out of character for how Hank views Walt that he'd never suspect him, and that's fine and it's gotten us to where we are now. But the Hank we've gotten to know is too smart not to be adding things up and Walt clearly isn't the guy Hank once thought he was (based on what Hank actually knows about Walt and putting all the other stuff aside).

If Hank made one of those giant corkboards filled with all of the clues he's gotten about/from Walt (like they did in The Wire and Homeland), little Holly could have figured it out by now.

So something has to change in the Walt/Hank dynamic, and maybe that's what we'll see on Sunday. At some point it's going to be Walt vs. Hank; it's just a matter of when that happens.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> I was only about half serious, but I do think we're at the point where it's straining credibility. On the one hand, Hank is this dogged, sharp detective who's obsessed with this case. On the other hand, his brother-in-law is the guy he's looking for and Walt's throwing up red flags right and left and Hank seems blind to them.
> 
> The built-in justification in the show, as you stated, is that it's so out of character for how Hank views Walt that he'd never suspect him, and that's fine and it's gotten us to where we are now. But the Hank we've gotten to know is too smart not to be adding things up and Walt clearly isn't the guy Hank once thought he was (based on what Hank actually knows about Walt and putting all the other stuff aside).
> 
> ...


But why would Hank ever ever begin to make a corkboard of clues he's received from/about Walt? Hank has no frame of reference to even begin to suspect Walt at this point.

Now if you said he should put together a corkboard about Fring and Heisenberg, and all the various clues and evidence he has about that case, you would think that looking at all those things together he'd start being suspicious of Walt.

But as viewers, we're seeing everything, so we know how all this stuff is happening right under Hank's nose. But if you look at it realistically from Hank's standpoint, there isn't that much he actually knows that would point to Walt. He know's Walt disappeared for a few days and claimed to be in a "fugue state." He knows that Walt came into a bunch of money and claimed he won it playing blackjack. He knows Walt no longer works at the high school. He knows that Walt and Skylar are having marital problems and that Skylar cheated on Walt with Ted Beneke. He knows that Walt and Skylar bought the car wash and that Skylar works there every day, but that Walt is rarely there. He knows that Walt recently "leased" himself and Junior new cars, and that Walt recently bought himself a new watch.

It would be quite a leap for Hank to suspect Walt based solely on that info. As far as Hank is concerned, there is an explanation for Walt having a bunch of money, so him being flashy with that money is not a red flag. The only real clue is that Walt is a brilliant chemist and doesn't seem to have a real job right now.* I think there would have to be more before Hank suspect's Walt.

*Has Walt provided a cover story for Hank and Marie for what he does all day every day?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

BradJW said:


> I think Walt would kill Hank without batting an eye....


I agree....look how he's been using him what with the crocodile tears in his office to plant the bugs and all...he doesn't care about his bro-in-law at all any more...


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> *Has Walt provided a cover story for Hank and Marie for what he does all day every day?


Of course Hank has no reason to start the clue corkboard, but if he did, the clues would start to add up.

The gambling thing alone should really shake Hank's confidence in who he thinks Walt is. That's almost as out of character for the guy Walt is supposed to be as being a meth cooker/dealer/murderer. Plus, there have been some big lies told to Hank/Marie before the truth is eventually told (meaning Hank knows both Walt and Skyler are liars and both have been acting pretty strange for a long time). Walt had the 2nd cell phone. Walt has engaged in some bizarre behavior around Hank, like crashing his car intentionally. Walt knows Jesse. Walt knew Gus. Walt doesn't seem to have anything to do with the car wash, which is supposedly their primary source of income. Walt is a frustrated genius chemist who seemingly has a lot of time on his hands, and the blue meth apparently has to be made by a brilliant chemist. How many of those are in ABQ? Why did Skylar insist on having the kids live with Hank and Marie? Did they get a good reason for that? The cars, the watch, and I'm sure many other things I've left out. I'm not talking about the stuff that we know and Hank doesn't. Just saying it would be quite a list of the stuff Hank does know and put together it would add up to something. Not necessarily Walt being a meth dealer but Hank, better than most people, should know when something strange is going on.

I don't think Hank is a fool not to know at this point, but we have to be getting close to the point where the light goes on.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

All they (meaning the DEA) has to do is link Mike or the Legacy 9 to Jesse somehow, and then Hank will make the leap to Walt. I don't know how they'll link Mike to Jesse... Maybe through the extermination biz? 

BTW, I read on a BrBa wiki that Mike, Walt, and Jesse bought outright the exterm biz from Ira(?). I'm not sure that's the case. I thought they bought a percentage of the biz fro Ira, but not the whole thing.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

BradJW said:


> I think Walt would kill Hank without batting an eye.
> Nothing to do with Hank but,
> 
> 
> ...


"this Sunday?" The series is done until 2013.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

netringer said:


> "this Sunday?" The series is done until 2013.


Wrong....this season (2012) finale IS this Sunday...check your TDL...

You must be snortin' meth or sumthin....


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> I agree....look how he's been using him what with the crocodile tears in his office to plant the bugs and all...he doesn't care about his bro-in-law at all any more...


I get the sense Walt has not really liked Hank all that much for decades now.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

uncdrew said:


> Yet he has hiding spots all over the city and desert that only he seems to know about. I'm not sure why he didn't use any of them.


Other than the place where he disposed of his laptop, I don't recall any other location that would have been a good place to stash stuff that wasn't part of a drug drop-off route. And the place where he disposed of his laptop might have been too far out of the way for him to run to and make a clean getaway.

Some of the places might have been good meeting spots because people could come and go, but perhaps not good for leaving stuff there on its own for a longer period of time.

I think Mike wanted a place that nobody else knew about, not anyone involved in any drug distribution or anyone who had ever met with him at any of the meeting spots. The car served as a way to create a brand new storage location that only he knew about. And it could be moved around every so often to keep it from being found.

He didn't anticipate the DEA catching on to the lawyer, and thus probably figured he would have had enough heads up to get to his stuff and run before major travel locations were being watched. So the benefit of not having to run out into the middle of nowhere outweighed the risk of the airport being difficult to get to.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> Walt knew Gus.


Hank only knows that Walt thanked Gus one time for bringing free chicken when Hank was shot. So while that meant that Walt technically knew of Gus, as far as Hank knows, the DEA had a stronger relationship with Gus than Walt did.

While I think the clues given so far such as the "W.W." initials are fun nods to the audience of, "See how close we can get to Hank almost figuring things out", I don't think any of them really add up to anything that any reasonable detective ought to be connecting together. Hank saw things about Gus that the others in the DEA didn't, but I don't think even he can be expected to connect what he has seen of Walt together.

Even if Hank didn't know Walt personally, I don't think he would have had any reason to suspect him. Most of the clues had explanations that would not point to any particular individual. For example, Gale included a poem by Walt Whitman in his notebook. Now, we know that Walter White was Gale's "Walt Whitman", but from the notebook alone there wasn't any reason for Hank to start looking into all people with "W.W." initials. He had no idea whether Gale knew someone with the initials "W.W.", considered someone who didn't have the initials "W.W." to be his Walt Whitman, or just really liked Walt Whitman a lot.

And since Hank does know pre-Heisenburg Walt, he would not even begin to suspect that Walt could have undergone such a significant transformation without some serious evidence. Walt not only has a reputation with Hank, but so does Heisenburg. While Hank might consider that there was a remote possibility that Walt could have become early Season One Walt, what he knows of Heisenburg would put him way out of what he considers to be Walt's league.

Heck, even as a viewer I expected Walt to say much closer to Season One Walt than he did. I came into the show not knowing that the plan was to make him go completely from one end of the spectrum to the other, so my impression of the show was that it would turn into a "cook-of-the-week" show, with Walt finding different low-budget ways of making his product each episode. I was pleasantly surprised that the show ended up evolving far more than that, but I can totally see how even the thought of Walt being Heisenburg would be completely absurd to Hank.

Add to that the fact that Walt is the one who put him back on Heisenburg's trail, and there is absolutely no reason to suspect him at this point.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I emailed my mortgage re-fi attorney whose last name is Sahl with this as the subject: "Better call Sahl!".

He didn't get it! Apparently he's not only never seen BrBa, but in the years it's been on the air, nobody else has ever mentioned it to him. 

He said it sounds like a plumber. I sent him a link to Saul's website: http://www.bettercallsaul.com/


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

john4200 said:


> No, it could have happened after Mike left. Somebody broke into the car, or threw rocks at it.


You would have to believe someone was throwing rocks from the inside of the car to break the passenger side window from the inside.



uncdrew said:


> Todd will either bring down Walt, or create a new set of headaches for him.


All those notes he was taking will end up being evidence.



Hank said:


> I think it was just to show Hank's complete obsession with the case, since he totally tuned out during the meeting. This obsession is what might just keep him from realizing that Heisenberg is Walter White.


No, when Hank was looking at all the photos of Mike, something was tickling his subconscious. What that something was will eventually come to the surface and Hank and the viewers will see it.

Does anyone have screen grabs of the photos? Perhaps we could figure out what clue they give.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

tiams said:


> All those notes he was taking will end up being evidence...


I totally agree with this. I think that was the whole point of the writers bringing Todd into the cook. Not that he is going to take over, but he'll get pinched and lead the DEA closer to Hank.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

btw...What is Walt's plans once he gets the 9 names? It's pretty difficult to kill 9 people while they are in prison.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

pmyers said:


> btw...What is Hank's plans once he gets the 9 names? It's pretty difficult to kill 9 people while they are in prison.


Walt.

But I agree. I don't think Walt was planning to kill them though, was he? He could have Saul visit them and make new hush money arrangements.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

pmyers said:


> I totally agree with this. I think that was the whole point of the writers bringing Todd into the cook. Not that he is going to take over, but he'll get pinched and lead the DEA closer to Hank.


+1.

Imagine if Todd gets pinched for petty theft or burglary and he flips his relatively minor charge for "I can give you Heisenberg". Wow, that would suck.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

TheMerk said:


> But I agree. I don't think Walt was planning to kill them though, was he? He could have Saul visit them and make new hush money arrangements.


Walt didn't seem too thrilled about paying them. I don't see him continuing Mike's plan. Especially when it was the execution of that plan that led the feds to Mike.



Hank said:


> +1.
> 
> Imagine if Todd gets pinched for petty theft or burglary and he flips his relatively minor charge for "I can give you Heisenberg". Wow, that would suck.


Some scribbles of chemistry notes in Todd's handwriting doesn't seem like great evidence against Walt. If Todd gets arrested and starts talking, he could certainly say a lot that would lead to Walt's arrest, but his notes would just be a minor bit of evidence that indirectly (at best) points to Walt.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> ...Some scribbles of chemistry notes in Todd's handwriting doesn't seem like great evidence against Walt. If Todd gets arrested and starts talking, he could certainly say a lot that would lead to Walt's arrest, but his notes would just be a minor bit of evidence that indirectly (at best) points to Walt.


Maybe not to Walt but it could lead closer to Heisenberg...


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Maybe not to Walt but it could lead closer to Heisenberg...


FYI: Walt and Heisenberg are the same guy.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

pmyers said:


> btw...What is Walt's plans once he gets the 9 names? It's pretty difficult to kill 9 people while they are in prison.


Not if you are in prison too. And we know Todd has relatives in prison.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

The way I see it, Walt will use Todd as the replacement for Mike. He will task Todd with killing the 9.

I thought for sure we were going to get a flashback later showing us Walt talking to Lydia (back when they were going to kill her) and getting the names of the 9. It's inconceivable to me that Walt never thought of that until just now.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> FYI: Walt and Heisenberg are the same guy.


MIND BLOWN.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> Some scribbles of chemistry notes in Todd's handwriting doesn't seem like great evidence against Walt. If Todd gets arrested and starts talking, he could certainly say a lot that would lead to Walt's arrest, but his notes would just be a minor bit of evidence that indirectly (at best) points to Walt.


Gale's notebook led them to Madrigal (because of a piece of industrial equipment) which led them to Gus. And also, Hank saw the initials W.W. there. So Todd's notes will surely have something that will tangentially lead to Walt. Because this is T.V.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

tiams said:


> You would have to believe someone was throwing rocks from the inside of the car to break the passenger side window from the inside.


What are you talking about? The passenger window was not broken. There was some blood spatter on it.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

tiams said:


> And also, Hank saw the initials W.W. there.


I don't have time to find the clip, but when Hank found the "W.W." in Gale's notebook and asked Walt about it, I could swear that Hank was asking Walt in a very tentative but still incredulous way "...and who has the initials 'WW'??" and looking right at Walt. Now maybe Hank was only joking/teasing Walt, but it really seemed to be more than that. It was a tense moment until Walt thumbed through the notebook to find the Walt Whitman quote. I'm sure that Hank has already linked the WW in the notebook to Walter White, but instantly dismissed it because of who he thinks Walt is (or isn't). I think this will be one of the major clues that Hank hits on right as he finally figures out Walt is Heisenberg.

btw, Hank found the Madrigal info on a LPH napkin in Gale's apartment, not in Gale's notebook.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I predict that Walt's undoing, however it happens, will be due to something directly related to his ego and hubris. It won't be due to good investigative work on Hank's part, or because another person (Jesse, Todd, Saul, whomever) gets caught, flips, or screws up. Walt will screw Walt.

Arguably this event already happened back at the dinner table two seasons ago when Walt convinced Hank that Gale couldn't have been Heisenberg and that Heisenberg must still be out there. Hank had been ready to move on. But I think another hubris-related event is yet to come. (We might have just seen it last episode in his killing of Mike, which was definitely ego-related, IMHO). Could be that Mike's murder leads to Walt's outing. In that case, I'd expect the next episode (the final of the mini-season) to be Hank's realization (making a great season-ending cliff hanger) and next season to be all cat-and-mouse and fallout, with the flash-forward from the beginning of this season falling into place at about the 5th episode next season and the final few episodes devoted to his destruction.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

tiams said:


> Not if you are in prison too. And we know Todd has relatives in prison.


I'd imagine getting 9 people in prison offed when you are white and not named Gotti is pretty tough. It ain't like Landry is an Italian white guy anyway.


----------



## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Hank said:


> I emailed my mortgage re-fi attorney whose last name is Sahl with this as the subject: "Better call Sahl!".
> 
> He didn't get it! Apparently he's not only never seen BrBa, but in the years it's been on the air, nobody else has ever mentioned it to him.
> 
> He said it sounds like a plumber. I sent him a link to Saul's website: http://www.bettercallsaul.com/


omg that site is lol funny - especially the saul commercial on the home page. :up:

how can i do it? because i care...


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

fmowry said:


> I'd imagine getting 9 people in prison offed when you are white and not named Gotti is pretty tough. It ain't like Landry is an Italian white guy anyway.


that's what I was thinking. Besides who says they are all in the same place? These guys haven't even been tried yet, right?


----------



## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> Walt didn't seem too thrilled about paying them. I don't see him continuing Mike's plan. Especially when it was the execution of that plan that led the feds to Mike.
> 
> Some scribbles of chemistry notes in Todd's handwriting doesn't seem like great evidence against Walt. If Todd gets arrested and starts talking, he could certainly say a lot that would lead to Walt's arrest, but his notes would just be a minor bit of evidence that indirectly (at best) points to Walt.


I was thinking that the notes and Walt's techniques would end up in the hands of the group in Phoenix trying to buy the methylmene.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hank said:


> BTW, I read on a BrBa wiki that Mike, Walt, and Jesse bought outright the exterm biz from Ira(?). I'm not sure that's the case. I thought they bought a percentage of the biz fro Ira, but not the whole thing.


I don't think so. At least that's not how I interpreted the money-splitting scene. I understood it to mean that the Vamanos Pest owner got a big chunk up front and a small amount from every cook in perpetuity. Remember that the pest company does 4-5 houses a week, and only a handful of the houses are suitable for the cook, so Vamanos Pest has to still be operating its legitimate extermination business and since neither Mike nor Walter are running it, I don't see any evidence that they bought the business outright.


tiams said:


> You would have to believe someone was throwing rocks from the inside of the car to break the passenger side window from the inside.


A) It wasn't the passenger window, it was the driver's window; and B) the window wasn't broken from the inside. It was shot by Walt from the outside in, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.


tivoboyjr said:


> Some scribbles of chemistry notes in Todd's handwriting doesn't seem like great evidence against Walt. If Todd gets arrested and starts talking, he could certainly say a lot that would lead to Walt's arrest, but his notes would just be a minor bit of evidence that indirectly (at best) points to Walt.


It could be that Landry took notes about a certain formula or process and Hank will see those notes and they'll remind him of something similar or identical in Gale's notebook and that's how he'll put the two together.


danterner said:


> I predict that Walt's undoing, however it happens, will be due to something directly related to his ego and hubris. It won't be due to good investigative work on Hank's part, or because another person (Jesse, Todd, Saul, whomever) gets caught, flips, or screws up. Walt will screw Walt.


Ultimately, I agree with this. It just makes the most sense from a literary standpoint. Nobody else but Walt is going to be responsible for Walt's downfall.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think so. At least that's not how I interpreted the money-splitting scene. I understood it to mean that the Vamanos Pest owner got a big chunk up front and a small amount from every cook in perpetuity. Remember that the pest company does 4-5 houses a week, and only a handful of the houses are suitable for the cook, so Vamanos Pest has to still be operating its legitimate extermination business and since neither Mike nor Walter are running it, I don't see any evidence that they bought the business outright.


You mean something I read on the internet is WRONG??!?!?

 (BTW, I agree that the biz was not sold outright).

cite: http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Vamonos_Pest_Control

Also, sold in 2009? Really? WTF?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Hank said:


> You mean something I read on the internet is WRONG??!?!?
> 
> (BTW, I agree that the biz was not sold outright).
> 
> ...


The series started in 2008. Not sure when it is set, but 2008 would be a reasonable guess. One year has passed so far in the show's timeline, so although it is now 2012 for us, it's only 2009 for the characters.

Out of curiosity, anyone know the model year of the new cars Walt recently bought? Are they current models?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I totally agree with this. I think that was the whole point of the writers bringing Todd into the cook. Not that he is going to take over, but he'll get pinched and lead the DEA closer to Hank.


Walt.



DevdogAZ said:


> A) It wasn't the passenger window, it was the driver's window; and B) the window wasn't broken from the inside. It was shot by Walt from the outside in, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.


tiams was clearly suggesting that the bullet was fired through and through, entering from the driver's window and exiting through the passenger window. You really could not understand that?



DevdogAZ said:


> It could be that Landry took notes about a certain formula or process and Hank will see those notes and they'll remind him of something similar or identical in Gale's notebook and that's how he'll put the two together.


Gale was a chemistry genius, but Todd will have similar notes (and he's no rocket scientist!), so that will be extremely suspicious. They might just nab Todd while he tries to arrange for his convict relatives to silence Mike's 9 guys.

I don't see Walt ever trying to kill Hank. If the jig is up, he has cancer, so he might give himself a severe case of "lead poisoning" (or take the ricin). But I also don't think Walt has the guts to kill himself, unless it was quick and painless. The season premiere suggests he will go out in a "blaze of glory", but that might be while taking down his new business partners.

Walt's legacy might be as the hero, as he took down Heisenberg's gang.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

I could be wrong, but I thought they were just paying the Vamanos guy(s) and didn't think they were actually taking ownership of all or part of the business. Not sure why they would even want to do that.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Also from that Wiki, has Walt's blue meth on the show _ever_ been called by name as Blue Sky? I don't think I've ever heard it called that in the show. If that's the case, where did this name come from? Fanfic?


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Hank said:


> Also from that Wiki, has Walt's blue meth on the show _ever_ been called by name as Blue Sky? I don't think I've ever heard it called that in the show. If that's the case, where did this name come from? Fanfic?


I recall Hank calling it that at one point, but can't remember the scene to look it up.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

getreal said:


> I don't see Walt ever trying to kill Hank. If the jig is up, he has cancer, so he might give himself a severe case of "lead poisoning" (or take the ricin). But I also don't think Walt has the guts to kill himself, unless it was quick and painless.


His ego is too big, and getting bigger. He wants fame and glory for the hard work he's done. I think the fact that Walter is asking for the names of the 9 guys in jail/prison to silence them is proof enough he'll kill if threatened. I think _under the right circumstances_ he'd kill Hank, Skylar, Jesse, or Marie without much thought.


getreal said:


> Walt's legacy might be as the hero, as he took down Heisenberg's gang.


Walter White from season 1 or 2 maybe, Heizenberg today, no way.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

TheMerk said:


> I recall Hank calling it that at one point, but can't remember the scene to look it up.


I concur.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> tiams was clearly suggesting that the bullet was fired through and through, entering from the driver's window and exiting through the passenger window.


But that is not what happened. The angle of the shot clearly went down into the car. And the passenger window was clearly visible after the shot, still intact, with blood spatter on it.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Found it. S02E13. Gomez calls it Blue Sky during Hank's briefing about Combo's death:



> Hank: So why am I talking about him?
> 
> Hank: Anyone? Anyone?
> 
> ...


It could be called that later on in the series, I didn't keep looking. But that was definitely the first time that it is called Blue Sky. I checked the subtitle files starting with S01E01 until I hit on a match 

Big Blue and Blue Magic also came up as I was searching.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> tiams was clearly suggesting that the bullet was fired through and through, entering from the driver's window and exiting through the passenger window. You really could not understand that?


No, I really could not understand that, because that doesn't make sense at all with what happened in the show. As jcondon said just above this post, the bullet went downward through the driver's window and into Mike's body. I don't understand why the passenger window (which remained intact) or it being broken from the inside were mentioned by tiams at all. I still don't, even after your wildly condescending post.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

I also saw the shot as going down into Mike's gut and possibly leg, and not exiting the passenger window ... but tiams was (I thought) pretty clearly suggesting that the passenger window got shot out during that scene. Maybe she thought that Mike accidentally shot out the passenger window with the gun he was later seen holding to his gut? It's moot now. RIP Mike.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

The Breaking Bad magic bullet theory?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I still don't, even after your wildly condescending post.


 I was not being condescending. At least that was not my intention. I enjoy your contributions to the discussions. We ALL need to try to NOT take things said around here personally, yo!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> The Breaking Bad magic bullet theory?


Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> I was not being condescending. At least that was not my intention.


OK, I'll take your word for it. But re-reading that post, I don't see any other way to read the phrase, "You really could not understand that?"


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> OK, I'll take your word for it. But re-reading that post, I don't see any other way to read the phrase, "You really could not understand that?"


Y'know, we ALL love this show, and sometimes it is hard to see through someone else's eyes. tiams described the shooting scene in a way that neither you nor I saw it (blowing out the passenger window). I understood what she was saying, even though I disagreed with it. I was just trying to clarify her apparent theory.

The tendency (on all forums) is for people to defend their interpretation, and not to allow others to suggest something else. Then threads devolve into overanalyzing the minutiae and misinterpreting other's words. A number of us try to convince others that WE are right and OTHERS are wrong, and it goes on and on.

We know this stuff already. It could be a forum about playing guitar, to sharing tips about business, to watching TV. But it happens everywhere, all the time.

So, really, nothing personal. No judgments from me. We all have our moments.

Pals? :up:


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> Y'know, we ALL love this show, and sometimes it is hard to see through someone else's eyes. tiams described the shooting scene in a way that neither you nor I saw it (blowing out the passenger window). I understood what she was saying, even though I disagreed with it. I was just trying to clarify her apparent theory.
> 
> The tendency (on all forums) is for people to defend their interpretation, and not to allow others to suggest something else. Then threads devolve into overanalyzing the minutiae and misinterpreting other's words. A number of us try to convince others that WE are right and OTHERS are wrong, and it goes on and on.
> 
> ...


Sure. Pals it is. I just still don't see how tiams' (a guy, by the way) original post said anything about a bullet blowing out the passenger window.


----------



## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> tiams' (a guy, by the way)


Are you sure?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Sure. Pals it is. I just still don't see how tiams' (a guy, by the way) original post said anything about a bullet blowing out the passenger window.


From the BB502 ("Madrigal") thread, replying to you, BTW:



tiams said:


> If she is doing it because she is afraid of him it's not voluntary, therefore very rapey. Maybe you have to be a woman to get it.


I thought (s)he came right out a said (s)he was a (fe)male in one post and I made a mental note of it. Then I re-read this particular post, and maybe I (miss*)interpreted it that way. 

So, tiams, what say you? 

_* pun intended_


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mike_k said:


> Are you sure?


No, I guess I'm not sure.


getreal said:


> From the BB502 ("Madrigal") thread, replying to you, BTW:
> 
> I thought (s)he came right out a said (s)he was a (fe)male in one post and I made a mental note of it. Then I re-read this particular post, and maybe I (miss*)interpreted it that way.
> 
> ...


I was thinking there had been confusion with tiams' gender in the past and s/he had corrected people that s/he was a guy. I may have gotten it backwards, or I may have confused him/her with someone else. If so, I'm sorry.


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

tiams said:


> You would have to believe someone was throwing rocks from the inside of the car to break the passenger side window from the inside.
> 
> All those notes he was taking will end up being evidence.
> 
> ...


I disagree. I also think they were just illustrating how distracted he was by the case. He was lost in thought while his boss was asking him a question and he was totally oblivious.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

getreal said:


> So, tiams, what say you?


She's a she. I remember her correcting someone many, many posts ago.


----------



## GTuck (May 23, 2004)

danterner said:


> The series started in 2008. Not sure when it is set, but 2008 would be a reasonable guess. One year has passed so far in the show's timeline, so although it is now 2012 for us, it's only 2009 for the characters.
> 
> Out of curiosity, anyone know the model year of the new cars Walt recently bought? Are they current models?


They are current models, at least Walt's Chrysler 300 SRT8 is a 2012, Walt Jr's could have been a 2009, but I'm betting it was also a 2012. It was pretty much a Chrysler commercial for about 30 seconds while they were revving their engines in the driveway.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

She is a she.


----------



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Is she hot?

(what? Someone was gonna ask.)


----------



## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

Hank said:


> > Then they'll get court order to force the bank to disclose all the boxes that lawyer has ever had access to. Once they find the money designated for Kaylee, and knowing that they previously found an account in Mike's granddaughter's name, it won't be very difficult to figure that one out either.
> 
> 
> I think that's what they call "Circumstantial Evidence"


Circumstantial evidence is as valid as direct evidence. Let's say that Todd didn't shoot the kid at the train robbery. The kid rides home and tells someone that he saw three men with a pump after the train pulled away. The cops investigate and discover that the methylmine has been diluted. They discover the tank buried in the ground near the tracks. The kid's testimony that these three guys were near the train with a pump is circumstantial because he didn't see them actually pumping out the methylmine. The fact that the methylmine is diluted is circumstantial (it would be direct evidence except that you can't prove that it wasn't diluted at some other point in the train's journey). The fact that there is a tank large enough to hold the missing methylmine right where the kid said he saw the men is circumstantial. All of your evidence is circumstantial but when you put it together you will easily convict those three men of robbing the methylmine (assuming that the kid IDs them).

Circumstantial evidence got a bad reputation from lawyer shows on TV, but it makes up the majority of evidence in many successful convictions. You won't hear "Objection! Circumstantial" in any courtroom except for on TV.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> She is a she.


This deserves its own thread...


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## Elmo Blatch (Aug 31, 2012)

DevdogAZ said:


> As far as Hank is concerned, there is an explanation for Walt having a bunch of money, so him being flashy with that money is not a red flag. The only real clue is that Walt is a brilliant chemist and doesn't seem to have a real job right now.* I think there would have to be more before Hank suspect's Walt.
> 
> *Has Walt provided a cover story for Hank and Marie for what he does all day every day?


Does Hank necessarily believe the cover story about blackjack? I'm not so sure.

Hank does know that a gas mask and some lab equipment were stolen from Walt's high school and used to cook meth out in the desert, and Walt was the only person (or one of the only persons) with a key to that room.

And Hank knows Walt has a connection to Jesse, who Hank knows is somehow involved in the meth business.

I'm just saying that Hank is consumed with finding out who Heisenberg is. Absolutely consumed. That's all he thinks about, even when he's not supposed to care. And Hank has been damn near right about everything so far. So it wouldn't surprise me if Hank has been putting the pieces together and figured out that Walt could be a candidate to be Heisenberg.

Gilligan isn't exactly going to show the process or the "aha" moment. But there was the scene when Merkert told Hank and Gomez that he was being pushed out, and Merkert was talking about how he didn't know that the guy they were looking for (Fring) was right under Merkert's nose. The camera flashed to Hank, and he had this look on his face, like he knew exactly what Merkert was talking about.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

We all seem to mostly agree that when Hank catches Heisenberg, Hank's DEA career is over.

What if Hank realizes this, and agrees to not pursue Walt in exchange for (a) keeping his job, and (2) getting a cut of the meth business? 

And if other DEA agents do catch Walt, it would still be the end of Hank's career, but Hank would at least have some level of plausible deniability since his boss has already told him to move off the Fring case.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> We all seem to mostly agree that when Hank catches Heisenberg, Hank's DEA career is over.
> 
> What if Hank realizes this, and agrees to not pursue Walt in exchange for (a) keeping his job, and (2) getting a cut of the meth business?
> 
> And if other DEA agents do catch Walt, it would still be the end of Hank's career, but Hank would at least have some level of plausible deniability since his boss has already told him to move off the Fring case.


While (our TCF) Hank is wrong about everything, I like this one.

Does Hank the DEA agent break bad? I like it.

Is DEA agent redundant?


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

BradJW said:


> Is she hot?
> 
> (what? Someone was gonna ask.)


Very!


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Hank said:


> We all seem to mostly agree that when Hank catches Heisenberg, Hank's DEA career is over.


Can someone explain why Hank would lose his job when he catches Heisenberg?


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

brianric said:


> Can someone explain why Hank would lose his job when he catches Heisenberg?


The same reason that the previous ASAC lost his job when it was discovered that Gus Fring was a druglord right under his nose.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

TheMerk said:


> The same reason that the previous ASAC lost his job when it was discovered that Gus Fring was a druglord right under his nose.


That's true if someone else finds out who Heisenberg is. I doubt Hank would lose his job if he's the one who finds out who Heisenberg is. Strictly my opinion.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Elmo Blatch said:


> Does Hank necessarily believe the cover story about blackjack? I'm not so sure.


I don't think he has questioned it at all. He has probably known Walter and Skylar for decades, and from my impression of them from early season 1 is that the Whites are very honest, truthful people. Why would Hank question anything Walter or Skylar (from early and pre season 1) told him.
However I think the cracks of who he thinks Walter and Skylar are definitely starting to showing, and he will (maybe with Marie's help) eventually start to realize something is not kosher in the the White household.


Elmo Blatch said:


> Hank does know that a gas mask and some lab equipment were stolen from Walt's high school and used to cook meth out in the desert, and Walt was the only person (or one of the only persons) with a key to that room.


Once again, I think he unquestioningly believes the White's are honest, truthful people.


Elmo Blatch said:


> And Hank knows Walt has a connection to Jesse, who Hank knows is somehow involved in the meth business.


I do not think Hank knows Jesse and Walter have a connection. If he did I assume it's just that Jesse was a student of Walter's, but that means nothing to push Hank to the idea that Walter = Heisenberg.


Elmo Blatch said:


> I'm just saying that Hank is consumed with finding out who Heisenberg is. Absolutely consumed. That's all he thinks about, even when he's not supposed to care. And Hank has been damn near right about everything so far. So it wouldn't surprise me if Hank has been putting the pieces together and figured out that Walt could be a candidate to be Heisenberg.
> 
> Gilligan isn't exactly going to show the process or the "aha" moment. But there was the scene when Merkert told Hank and Gomez that he was being pushed out, and Merkert was talking about how he didn't know that the guy they were looking for (Fring) was right under Merkert's nose. The camera flashed to Hank, and he had this look on his face, like he knew exactly what Merkert was talking about.


I still think Hank doesn't suspect a thing, if he did he'd be tailing Walter and/or Skylar, or asking them more questions.

Considering all that Hank has been through (shoot out with Tuco, the tortoise explosion, the shootout with the twins, the lock down with Fring) I would think Hank would lose his **** and beat the crap out of Walter. I completely disagree with him shuffling it under the carpet and taking a cut. He's been through more hardships at the indirect hand of Walter White than anyone else.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

TheMerk said:


> The same reason that the previous ASAC lost his job when it was discovered that Gus Fring was a druglord right under his nose.





brianric said:


> That's true if someone else finds out who Heisenberg is. I doubt Hank would lose his job if he's the one who finds out who Heisenberg is. Strictly my opinion.


Well, even if Hank catches Heisenberg himself, he's still his brother-in-law. That's really going to go over like a lead balloon with his bosses. He's going to have to take the fall in the end anyway.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

uncdrew said:


> Is DEA agent redundant?


Not really.

An Agent in the Drug Enforcement Agency.

Just like CIA Agent isn't redundant.

phox


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I say you're all right, and I think the season bridging cliffhanger will be that Hank finally wakes up and gets the scent on Walt. Maybe Lydia will make a call to save her skin from Walt and prison (by "turning states evidence.")

We know that Walt is going to go full bad. That prolly means that Hank isn't going to be able to let him slide without anyone ever knowing who Heisenberg was.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't think there's any way Hank "breaks bad" to save Walt or save his job. We've got to remember that this show isn't real life. This show is a work of literature filmed for TV. The writers are not likely to craft the story so that the protagonist and the antagonist end up on the same side at the end.

If Hank had even an inkling about Walt, there's no way he would let Walt into his office, let alone leave him alone in there with the blinds closed.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

I agree. Hank isn't breaking bad. A real world, practical solution for if/when Hank catches on to Walt would be for Walt to agree stop cooking (in return for staying out of prison) and Hank to conclude that Heisenberg is dead (and thereby keep his job since the news that Heisenberg is Walt would presumably not be revealed - certainly not by Hank). But that isn't dramatic or interesting enough and won't happen on this show. There will be a showdown at some point, and I wouldn't be shocked if Hank is the last man standing.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> If Hank had even an inkling about Walt, there's no way he would let Walt into his office, let alone leave him alone in there with the blinds closed.


Unless Hank has his office under surveillance and is recording everything Walt does. Of course, this is highly unlikely.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

tivoboyjr said:


> I wouldn't be shocked if Hank is the last man standing.


I like the sound of that!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> I agree. Hank isn't breaking bad. A real world, practical solution for if/when Hank catches on to Walt would be for Walt to agree stop cooking (in return for staying out of prison) and Hank to conclude that Heisenberg is dead (and thereby keep his job since the news that Heisenberg is Walt would presumably not be revealed - certainly not by Hank).


That's what I'm saying....



tivoboyjr said:


> But that isn't dramatic or interesting enough and won't happen on this show. There will be a showdown at some point, and I wouldn't be shocked if Hank is the last man standing.


...then you'd have the inevitable as "indestructible" Heisenberg who can't stand to have Hank know or shut down his "Empire," so he takes on Hank.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

uncdrew said:


> While (our TCF) Hank is wrong about everything, I like this one...


Nope....he's wrong about this too. Never gonna happen. Hank's a straight arrow when it comes to his career...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

phox_mulder said:


> Not really.
> 
> An Agent in the Drug Enforcement _*Agency*_.
> 
> ...


It's the Drug Enforcement *ADMINISTRATION*...not agency.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> Nope....he's wrong about this too. Never gonna happen. Hank's a straight arrow when it comes to his career...


Come on people, I didn't say it was going to happen.. I was just throwing it out there as a "what if..." as one of an infinite number of potential outcomes.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Dammit Hank. I finally agreed with you and you're wrong again.


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

Hank said:


> Unless Hank has his office under surveillance and is recording everything Walt does. Of course, this is highly unlikely.


If that were true, Hank would have known that Walt bugged his office and wouldn't have said the things that let Walt know that Lydia hadn't placed the GPS and that the cops were going after Mike.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> It's the Drug Enforcement *ADMINISTRATION*...not agency.


That makes it even less redundant.

phox


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

phox_mulder said:


> That makes it even less redundant.
> 
> phox


Exactly...


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

My son went to the mall today, and came back... with THIS.










Greg


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

netringer said:


> I say you're all right, and I think the season bridging cliffhanger will be that Hank finally wakes up and gets the scent on Walt. ......





Spoiler



:up::up::up:

I win!!! 

​


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## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

Robin said:


> First, I can't see the title without hearing it in the Empress's voice in The Neverending Story. "Bastion! Say! My! Name!"


And I hear the "flute girl" from American Pie screaming "Say my name, *****!" 

Brad


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