# So still not possible to hook up to a Directv box correct?



## omelet1978 (Mar 7, 2006)

I have a 5 year old Series 2 that I have hooked to a SD Directv box. I would have done the same with the premiere but it wasn't compatible. I take it that nothing has changed with the Romio?


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## SoBayJake (Feb 6, 2002)

Correct, and it likely never will.

They would need to add HDMI capture or analog capture to record from component.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

omelet1978 said:


> I have a 5 year old Series 2 that I have hooked to a SD Directv box. I would have done the same with the premiere but it wasn't compatible. I take it that nothing has changed with the Romio?


The only things compatible with DirecTV are those that DirecTV wants to be compatible. Currently that is the DirecTV provided THR-22 DVR with TiVo service. That device is neither a Premiere, Roamio, or Genie, but it does give you a nice Series 2 to 3 TiVo interface. Somehow I don't see DirecTV commissioning TiVo to provide Roamio like box for them that would not be compatible with the Genie product line. Nothing TiVo can do will change this. Satellite companies are completely free to legally keep everyone else's hardware off their networks. The cable card rules do not apply to them.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

SoBayJake said:


> Correct, and it likely never will.
> 
> They would need to add HDMI capture or analog capture to record from component.


Or, if something like AllVid became reality.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

The THR-22 is a complete joke. DirecTV doesn't want TiVo, which sucks. However, I can see why they would want top to bottom control over releasing updates and the like... And even if DirecTV gave them access to their satellite system, the hardware would be big bucks to build for a relatively small market. Satellite stuff is more complicated than cable, even with CableCard.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> Or, if something like AllVid became reality.


I wish. Unfortunately I think they've successfully lobbied that idea out of existence.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Bigg said:


> The THR-22 is a complete joke.


I don't agree. The THR22 provides HR10 functionality with a (very) few extras. It works just fine for that. If you were expecting parity with 2012 TiVos, then I could understand your disappointment, but that was never promised.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

stevel said:


> Bigg said:
> 
> 
> > The THR-22 is a complete joke.
> ...


The problem is, the market has evolved a LOT from the time of the HR10-250. You just can't ignore the Genie and it's thin clients and whole-home functionality when looking at the THR-22. The THR-22 is utterly useless, as you may as well just get the Genie and clients, which do everything the THR-22 does and WAY more. The THR-22 is a complete joke, and DirecTV knows it. No one in their right mind would actually get that POS when they could have a Genie.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

My wife would disagree with you. The THR22 does everything she wants. Not everyone cares about multiple TVs, On Demand and apps.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

stevel said:


> My wife would disagree with you. The THR22 does everything she wants. Not everyone cares about multiple TVs, On Demand and apps.


Even if you only have one TV (highly unusual situation), the Genie is still a far better box in every way. Why have two tuners when you can have 5? Simply said, the THR-22 is an absolute piece of garbage, and anyone who gets one is nuts. It has no use case. DirecTV has made the path forward clear. If you don't like it, switch to cable or OTA.


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## TC25D (Aug 21, 2013)

stevel's wife is happy with the THR. Why do you think it is your job to convince her otherwise using insults?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

TC25D said:


> stevel's wife is happy with the THR. Why do you think it is your job to convince her otherwise using insults?


I'm just saying it like it is. A POS product is a POS product, no matter how you look at it.


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## TC25D (Aug 21, 2013)

Bigg said:


> I'm just saying it like it is. A POS product is a POS product, no matter how you look at it.


Sorry, I forgot it is OK to express your personal opinions as crude insults.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

TC25D said:


> Sorry, I forgot it is OK to express your personal opinions as crude insults.


No matter how you rack up the comparison, the THR-22 is going to LOSE and LOSE BIG to either the DirecTV Genie or the 4- and 6-tuner CableCard TiVos, and their respective client boxes. Time has passed that limited set of functionality by. That's not my opinion, that's what the facts say. There is no benefit to the THR-22. The Genie does everything it does, plus tons more. Like, oh, working in a household with more than one TV, like most American households. Or having 5 tuners. Which could be useful even if you only have one TV. And having DirecTV On Demand.


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## SoBayJake (Feb 6, 2002)

Bigg said:


> No matter how you rack up the comparison, the THR-22 is going to LOSE and LOSE BIG to either the DirecTV Genie or the 4- and 6-tuner CableCard TiVos, and their respective client boxes. Time has passed that limited set of functionality by. That's not my opinion, that's what the facts say. There is no benefit to the THR-22. The Genie does everything it does, plus tons more. Like, oh, working in a household with more than one TV, like most American households. Or having 5 tuners. Which could be useful even if you only have one TV. And having DirecTV On Demand.


Who cares? If someone is happy, they can be happy. It has zero impact on you or anyone else.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

From what I've seen the THR-22 is basically like a S3 for DirecTV. I still know a LOT of people who are happily using S3 units. Not everyone needs all the whizbang whole house streaming features of the more modern DVRs.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> From what I've seen the THR-22 is basically like a S3 for DirecTV. I still know a LOT of people who are happily using S3 units. Not everyone needs all the whizbang whole house streaming features of the more modern DVRs.


The S3's have multi-room capability (excepting HBO or just about anything on TWC). Also, it's one thing if you already own an S3 that's a few years old, it's lifetimed, and you keep it. It's a whole different thing to pay top dollar for an outdated, crippled piece of sh*t when you can get the far superior DirecTV DVR for the same price.

EDIT: Don't they even charge more for the crippled DirecTiVo?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I wonder how much of that is TiVo's fault and how much is DirecTVs? That DirecTiVo was in development for like 2-3 years before it was finally released. I wonder if DirecTV drug their feet while TiVo's technology passed them by?

If we ever see anything like AllVid come to pass then TiVo will be able to release consumer DVRs for all providers just like they have for cable now.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> From what I've seen the THR-22 is basically like a S3 for DirecTV. I still know a LOT of people who are happily using S3 units. Not everyone needs all the whizbang whole house streaming features of the more modern DVRs.


People were happily using S3 units because the S4 was that bad. However, Roamio Plus and Pro would be the peer to Genie.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

AllVid is never coming to pass. It's amazing how quickly the steam was knocked out of that idea.

However, I agree totally with the criticisms of the THR-22. It is a diminished S3 product introduced AFTER the S4 hit the shelves, and the THR-22 is further diminished because it lacks many of the GREAT features including MRV found in retail S3's and OTT options just to name a few. Let's not not become jingoistic just because we may be TiVo fanboys. The THR-22 is only appealing to the most ardent TiVo enthusiasts who simply must have the little TiVo critter and nothing else, and I think the harsh criticism from some is that TiVo enthusiasts deserved better from DirecTV.

Which brings us to the point that it was all DirecTV's doing, NOT TiVo's. The agreement between TiVo and DirecTV was at a time when TiVo was most desperate and exceedingly desperate to get TiVo as part of MSO offerings (TiVo was not in the great financial shape it is today and it seemed the ship was sinking, hence the lawsuits), and TiVo had just filed suit against Echostar (Since split into Dish Corp and Echostar Corp) the company providing the then branded Dish Network service who at the time had by far the most DVR's in homes (that was the REAL reason Echostar was the first in a long line of MVPD's to be sued. Further Tom Rogers stated clearly that any MVPD who was not interested in developing a TiVo product was going to be sued for patent infringment. BTW, Ergen and Rogers are still freinds).

TiVo approached DirecTV, as they did EVERYONE else, but DirecTV would only agree to a TiVo product if TiVo put in the contract that TiVo would NOT sue DirecTV for patent infringement. TiVo agreed and that was the beginning of DirecTV jerking TiVo around for a very long time. Mike White even poo-pooed the then coming DircTiVo product in the quarterly conference calls saying the current DirecTV boxes do the same things and coming products would do more than the TiVo and have greater value and . . . This is how one talks about their partner?

DirecTV slowed it all down for as long as they could without causing TiVo to sue for breach of contract, but TiVo wouldn't DARE sue for breach of contract (it had already agreed NOT to sue for patent infringements) because DirecTV was the ONLY MVPD at that time who was co-developing a TiVo product. TiVo had already invested, one could say emotionally, in the THR-22 and couldn't bear to just give up and sue DirecTV for breach (an expensive and lengthy process with no return for years, and TiVo needed money even more as the huge cost of suing Echostar was draining their cash and caused losses instead of profits for some quarters) when TiVo could see the light at the end of the DirecTV tunnel for years and repeated delays of launch, as if Mike White were dangling it in front of Tom Rogers.

Nope, DirecTV is done with TiVo, and TiVo can't sue DirecTV for patent infringement, so it's over. We're saying that it would have been sweet and a far more compelling product if the THR-22 had been based on the S4 (which it could have been) as the DircTiVo swan song.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I don't agree it was all DirecTV's fault. The contract was to deliver a feature set that at the time was reasonable, and the stated timeframe was short. More than two years late it finally showed up. It does what was promised at the time.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Series3Sub said:


> People were happily using S3 units because the S4 was that bad.


It wasn't. Those people were objectively wrong. Their issue was with the HDUI, which could simply be turned off -- leaving them with a unit functionally equivalent to an S3, but much faster.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

wmcbrine said:


> It wasn't. Those people were objectively wrong. Their issue was with the HDUI, which could simply be turned off -- leaving them with a unit functionally equivalent to an S3, but much faster.


I agree. The biggest problems with the Premiere were releasing it with the HDUI and the way TiVo marketed it.

What should have happened is they should have released the Premiere with the SDUI only in the summer of 2009 and marketed as an speed and recording size update to the TiVo HD.

Then worked on the HDUI and a hardware update that could actually run it correctly. The summer of 2011 release would then have been a hardware update introducing 4 tuner units and the HDUI.

The people who release the Premiere in the winter of 2010 with the HDUI the way it was should have been fired along with the idiots who tried to market it as the "One Box".


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't know if they realized how bad the hardware was until it was too late. This was all sort of a new undertaking for them at the time and they may not have known the UI was going to be such a dog until it was too late. At that point some manager probably said "it's good enough, ship it" and that was that. They seemed to have learned from their mistakes this time around.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Series3Sub said:


> AllVid is never coming to pass. It's amazing how quickly the steam was knocked out of that idea.
> 
> However, I agree totally with the criticisms of the THR-22. It is a diminished S3 product introduced AFTER the S4 hit the shelves, and the THR-22 is further diminished because it lacks many of the GREAT features including MRV found in retail S3's and OTT options just to name a few. Let's not not become jingoistic just because we may be TiVo fanboys. The THR-22 is only appealing to the most ardent TiVo enthusiasts who simply must have the little TiVo critter and nothing else, and I think the harsh criticism from some is that TiVo enthusiasts deserved better from DirecTV.
> 
> ...


Quite true. I wish D* would just release a 6-tuner Ethernet-based tuner and give TiVo the API for it (i.e. AllVid but not a true standard). But there obviously isn't enough of a market to capture there for DirecTV to develop a product like that, especially given how good the Genie is. Even if DirecTV wanted to develop a true DirecTiVo (i.e. something that's fully cross-compatible with the HR-series but using the TiVo interface), it probably wouldn't be worth the effort for the relatively few subs who leave to cable/ don't come to DirecTV in the first place because of TiVo. The HR10-250 crowd has long since moved to DirecTV DVRs or cable.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That would be cool if someone like DirecTV took the initiative on an AllVid style external tuner, but I doubt they ever would because they have a chicken and egg type situation. Without something for it to connect to how do they even test it? I guess they could do it for the HTPC market, but that's pretty niche and with MS stopping development on MCE it's only going to get more niche going forward.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> That would be cool if someone like DirecTV took the initiative on an AllVid style external tuner, but I doubt they ever would because they have a chicken and egg type situation. Without something for it to connect to how do they even test it? I guess they could do it for the HTPC market, but that's pretty niche and with MS stopping development on MCE it's only going to get more niche going forward.


They could make their own stuff for testing. The problem is that there isn't really a market for it, it would be a support nightmare, and they know both of those things.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

wmcbrine said:


> It wasn't. Those people were objectively wrong. Their issue was with the HDUI, which could simply be turned off -- leaving them with a unit functionally equivalent to an S3, but much faster.


I think there issues (plural) were with the SLOW Premier response, it frequently freezing or hanging--in short the Premiere was terribly under powered. The user experience with the S3's fast response and greater stability is why legions didn't even invest in the entire S4 line. Sorry, but my two S4's are still painfully SLOW, sometimes HANG for full minuted before it resolves whatever--it is a frustrating experience and time consuming just to move through the menus to select a recording and play it or even delete it at the end whilst I WAIT and WAIT for it to wake from its long slumber. I've hd to hard re-boot my Premiers countless times over the years I've had them. Meanwhile my trusty S3's required hard-reboot only a few times, are so much faster and respond to my commands with NO DELAY and they just don't HANG in a coma like the S4's.

I just think some people love being contrary just to have fun, not that they are a deluded fanboy with beer goggle love for anything TiVo.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

stevel said:


> I don't agree it was all DirecTV's fault. The contract was to deliver a feature set that at the time was reasonable, and the stated timeframe was short. More than two years late it finally showed up. It does what was promised at the time.


Thanks for confirming that DirecTV dictated the capabilities of TiVo product: an inferior box to all comparable DirecTV STB's at that time and in the works, with NONE of the compelling TiVo features of EVEN A SERIES 3 that would NOT pose a threat to DircTV's revenue (no OTT was a reasonable exclusion), but TiVo took it up the @#$ because they were desperate and needed to CROW about a new agreement with the huge #2 DirecTV, once again, to provide momentum for the MSO partnership plans and appease Wall Street. And DirecTV CHANGED what they wanted all along the way. It sure slowed things down and caused launch date to change and change and delay and delay. Gee, I'm sure DirecTV wanted this TiVo product out as soon as possible, and with its feeble features and capabilities compared to the retail versions of S3, should have been a quickie. And the COST to a subscriber for this special product is just as low as a DirecTV STB; very competitive, right? Of course, the THR-22 makes good economic sense and provides comparable if not SUPERIOR features and capabilities for the DircTV subscriber compared to what DirecTV offered at the time of the agreement and the time of its launch. I just don't think so. No TiVo "Love" at DirecTV.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Series3Sub said:


> in short the Premiere was terribly under powered.


And I'm telling you, it isn't. As compared to the S3, it is much, much faster. That's a fact. Only the HDUI (and really, only early versions of the HDUI) could make it seem slow.



> _Sorry, but my two S4's are still painfully SLOW_


Set them to SDUI mode, then.

Edit: Do you even understand what I mean by "HDUI" and "SDUI", or are you just glossing over that part?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> And I'm telling you, it isn't. As compared to the S3, it is much, much faster. That's a fact. Only the HDUI (and really, only early versions of the HDUI) could make it seem slow.


Gospel.

I have an Elite running SDUI, it is as quick as I can press the buttons. Reordering SPs can take a few minutes, but I have 100+ SPs. Displaying all WL takes 1/2 the time of my S3.

It's fast, if you don't need the HDUI.


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