# UPS options



## JeffKusnitz (Apr 9, 2008)

We had a brief power outage the other day. When my roamio pro restarted it had no network connection (normally wired). I unplugged it, waited a minute then plugged it in and it still didn't work. I tried wireless as well and that also didn't work (my home network was fine). Eventually I left the roamio unplugged for 20 minutes and when it came back up the wired connection was working.

But it left me with two questions - is the roamio pro network hardware on a user-replaceable board of some sort? Is the moca network hardware the same component?

And, what UPS models do people use with their AV/TiVo equipment?

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

TiVo's (and most electronic devices) are not fussy about the AC power they receive. The least expensive UPS'es are fine, e.g, APC and the other popular brand that I can't remember right now. The only factor that matters much in selecting one is the overall capacity which depends on the total load and how long you want the backup power to last.

And be prepared to replace the UPS battery every 2 to 3 years -- unfortunately costing a major fraction of the original UPS cost.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

The network adapter is integrated on the motherboard. I don't know if the MoCA components are part of the same circuitry as the network adapter, but it is part of the motherboard and also not replaceable as a component. 

For my TiVo I use a bottom of the line (rated 325) UPS. I shop based on price. All I care about is it lasting 5 or 10 minutes in the case of brief outages if it's longer, I can manage. Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that TiVos on a UPS tend to have fewer problems than those that are not. 

Also, I've started opening my UPSes and removing the alarm speaker. Thank you, but I know when the power is out. I don't need an annoying beep to tell me. 

(I read about doing that here! Thank you to whomever suggested it.)


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Cyberpower. Cheaper than APC. I use a few. It's a budget and space factor. As for increasing the service life, I miss buying new stuff all the time.


----------



## olsen623 (Apr 29, 2016)

JoeKustra said:


> Cyberpower. Cheaper than APC. I use a few. It's a budget and space factor. As for increasing the service life, I miss buying new stuff all the time.


Another vote for Cyberpower. Check the efficiency ratings -- some crap UPS units have ridiculous standby/idle power consumption, even with a charged battery and nothing plugged in.


----------



## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

I currently have 2 Belkin AV UPSs, but if I were buying now I'd likely go with the Cyberpower OR2200PFCRT2U.


----------



## thefisch (Jul 25, 2015)

Usually the wholesale club stores have a deal from time to time. I picked up a couple cyberpower 625 models for about $40 each. Moved cable modem and router to share one of them so that wifi stays on too. I can get about 30 minutes powering a roamio plus, tuning adapter, modem, router and switch. Only twice has that not been enough time due to nearby road construction. Been rolling along since.


----------



## waterchange (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm using a cheap Cyberpower Ecologic 550VA unit I got on sale at Staples for $31 back in 2014 (after $29 in stacking coupons).


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

JoeKustra said:


> Cyberpower. Cheaper than APC. I use a few. It's a budget and space factor. As for increasing the service life, I miss buying new stuff all the time.


I also prefer Cyberpower UPS's. I've got a total of six UPS's currently in operation and the four newest ones are all Cyberpower units.

As for replacement batteries, there's no need to pay top dollar for the brand-name batteries. Depending on your UPS model, you can often find batteries from reliable sellers on eBay (or Amazon) for about one-third the price you would otherwise pay. In fact, when purchasing a new UPS I always verify first that non-OEM batteries are available.


----------



## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

chiguy50 said:


> As for replacement batteries, there's no need to pay top dollar for the brand-name batteries. Depending on your UPS model, you can often find batteries from reliable sellers on eBay (or Amazon) for about one-third the price you would otherwise pay. In fact, when purchasing a new UPS I always verify first that non-OEM batteries are available.


This is what I've done with the Belkin Units. I've had good experiences with www.arizonabattery.com even though they are across the US from me. Fast, low cost shipping (batteries aren't light, either) and economical.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

NJ Webel said:


> This is what I've done with the Belkin Units. I've had good experiences with www.arizonabattery.com even though they are across the US from me. Fast, low cost shipping (batteries aren't light, either) and economical.


Too bad they don't currently have a web site...


----------



## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Too bad they don't currently have a web site...


I know, right? lol  Horrible timing for me to be plugging them.


----------



## Dixon Butz (Mar 28, 2003)

NewEgg has a great deal today .
1000VA CyberPower 600W Pure Sinewave UPS $105 + Free Shipping


----------



## JBDragon (Jan 4, 2004)

chiguy50 said:


> I also prefer Cyberpower UPS's. I've got a total of six UPS's currently in operation and the four newest ones are all Cyberpower units.
> 
> As for replacement batteries, there's no need to pay top dollar for the brand-name batteries. Depending on your UPS model, you can often find batteries from reliable sellers on eBay (or Amazon) for about one-third the price you would otherwise pay. In fact, when purchasing a new UPS I always verify first that non-OEM batteries are available.


Seems like I'm always replacing battery's. In fact I have one on order now for my APC UPS-Pro 500 Unit that's in my Closet that handles my Networking equipment including my new ReadyNAS 516. The UPS seems to be failing the self test and it's beeping for a bit every once in a while. Kind of annoying and it seems like it hasn't been all that long. I'll look and see how long the battery has been installed when I pull it. I label my battery's with a installed date.

In time I have a collection of battery's I take to the Garbage recyclers to dispose of. Make sure when buying new battery's to at least match the Amp hours. You may see that cheap price but it's only 7 Ah, while the more expensive, longer lasting one is 9 Ah.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Dixon Butz said:


> NewEgg has a great deal today .
> 1000VA CyberPower 600W Pure Sinewave UPS $105 + Free Shipping


The description of this UPS says:


> Computers and other devices using high-efficiency Active Power Factor Correction (APFC) power supplies require pure sine wave AC power (as supplied by utilities) for trouble-free operation. This PFC Sinewave battery backup ensures equipment using APFC power supplies will not unexpectedly shutdown or experience harmful stress when switching from AC power to battery power.


and:


> Pure Sine Wave Output  Provides power protection to ENERGY STAR 5.0 devices with Active PFC power supplies and non-APFC power supplies.


I'm wondering how important pure sine wave output is for most of the electronic devices we use. I assume it adds to the cost of the UPS and I know it hasn't been important for my computers or TiVo's, in the past at least. What are examples of commonly owned electronics that have these APFC supplies? Or do some states like CA.and OR require this now?


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

dlfl said:


> The description of this UPS says:
> 
> and:
> 
> I'm wondering how important pure sine wave output is for most of the electronic devices we use. I assume it adds to the cost of the UPS and I know it hasn't been important for my computers or TiVo's, in the past at least. What are examples of commonly owned electronics that have these APFC supplies? Or do some states like CA.and OR require this now?


That (EnergyStar 5.0) would be most PC's sold in the last few years, definitely Macs, recent HDTV's and AVR's, and some more. However, I am NOT aware of ANY DVR today that meets EnergyStar 5.0, certainly not any TiVo's. So this is not an issue with DVR's today.

However, if you have an EnergyStar 5.0 (or greater by now?) device hooked to a UPS not designed for APFC in mind (like a lot of the Standby APC's still sold today), a Mac or PC may just shut down as if no UPS and you lose your data, and in a few cases damage to the power supply of the device if it manages to run off the UPS. HP has a list of their PC's that use APFC and require UPS with APFC in mind after several failures of standard standby UPS's not preventing immediate shut down experienced by customers, and Apple is aware of this, as well. So, those folks spent for a UPS for nothing.

As for HDTV's and AVR's etc. I suppose it depends upon how often and how long the device is powered by a UPS without APFC in mind, so there is a chance of no damage if one experiences a wee loss for a few seconds once or twice a year or even for a few minutes. However, in other cases of longer periods running on UPS, people have reported loud humming and crackling from their HDTV's and AVR's, and a few I came across had total failure and device killed by non-APFC UPS.

Today, CyberPower "APFC" or "Pure Sine Wave" UPS's are virtually identical in price to comparable APC Stepped (meaning not for PFC) Sine Wave UPS's that have been around for years, so I say if one is looking at such a UPS, then just get the CyberPower for APFC's and you will always be covered and can use them with any device with confidence.

I have both the Stepped from APC for my older than or non EnergyStar 5.0 devices and I have the CyberPower for APFC's that I purchased later for my first EnergyStar 5.0 compliant devices.

Again, no DVR's today meet EnergyStar 5.0, meaning they are not using power supplies with APFC, so it's up to you.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

@Series3Sub,

Thanks, however what do you mean by "stepped" APC's? Do you just mean the typical lowest-cost APC waveform that's more like a square wave than a sine wave? I looked on the APC web site and didn't find "stepped" mentioned.

It looks like you have to go to the APC "Smart-UPS" models to get sine wave and it appears they are **very** pricey compared to similar CyberPower models. (e.g., APC SMC 1000 is $241 at Amazon).

My PC is old enough not to have an APFC PSU. I have a 2015-model TV that is Energy Star but I don't put it on a UPS.

So you're saying that when I upgrade to a new PC, I'm going to have to upgrade the UPS to a sine wave model too?


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I used non sine wave APC UPS's for years, on both my desktop computers, and my DVR's of various flavors (including my TiVo's) with never a problem during power fluctuations.

Had a power bump a few years ago and found my new computer at the time didn't like being powered by just the APC UPS.
For some reason it didn't mind whatever the APC was putting out when there was power, but running off batteries it didn't like.

Upgraded that one to sine a sine wave Cyberpower, and all has been well.

As the rest of my APC's gradually died, I replaced them all with Cyberpower Sine Wave UPS's as well, figured better safe than sorry. 

I've since upgraded the computer that wasn't happy, no idea if the new one needs sine wave or not.


phox


----------



## JBDragon (Jan 4, 2004)

dlfl said:


> The description of this UPS says:
> 
> and:
> 
> I'm wondering how important pure sine wave output is for most of the electronic devices we use. I assume it adds to the cost of the UPS and I know it hasn't been important for my computers or TiVo's, in the past at least. What are examples of commonly owned electronics that have these APFC supplies? Or do some states like CA.and OR require this now?


Pure Sine UPS's are more costly and SOME devices may have issues with Stepped. I've had no issues so far. I think if it was really a big deal, people would be complaining left and right all over the place and sales of them would tank and people would then only buy Pure Sine Wave units. Here's a same picture. Pure Sine would be the smooth lines that goes up and down in a curve. That's how AC voltage works, 0 volts is the middle and it goes up +120 volts and down -120 volts, but really fast both ways. With the cheaper UPS's they step the the Up and Down. That's the yellow part of this image.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JIWonIdLaI0/TgrMrZoEtfI/AAAAAAAAAOU/KX4T33lOK44/s320/image136.jpg

I just replaced my old APC unit with a newer CyberPower 1500 not long ago and it's stepped and it works just fine. I got my Dad a smaller unit for is Mac Mini and it works fine. I have a APC UPS-Pro 500 I believe is Pure Sine in my Closet with my Networking stuff. It's just a unit I had free at the time. I have a power conditioner for my TV surround setup in the family room, no UPS.


----------



## jpolster2016 (May 11, 2016)

I use a 1500 VA UPS, and the only reason I have it is because I ordered one for my company and newegg sent me two by mistake and only billed me for one. I have to say that while its nice to have my cable modem, router, tivo and TV on a UPS, what really eases my mind is that my tivo wont get borked by a power outage during a system update. not missing a recording of judge judy is just a bonus


----------



## michael1248 (Feb 14, 2002)

Any suggestions for a "component" style UPS that would sit on a shelf with my TiVo, DVD, receiver, etc?


----------



## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

http://www.amazon.com/Panamax-MX510...F8&qid=1463057761&sr=8-2&keywords=panamax+ups


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

DigitalDawn said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Panamax-MX510...F8&qid=1463057761&sr=8-2&keywords=panamax+ups


Jeez! Over $400 with shipping! It better do the dishes and wash the windows too!


----------



## JBDragon (Jan 4, 2004)

jpolster2016 said:


> I use a 1500 VA UPS, and the only reason I have it is because I ordered one for my company and newegg sent me two by mistake and only billed me for one. I have to say that while its nice to have my cable modem, router, tivo and TV on a UPS, what really eases my mind is that my tivo wont get borked by a power outage during a system update. not missing a recording of judge judy is just a bonus


That's another good reason to have a UPS on your TIVO. Just make sure when the power goes off, you turn off the TV. That's a huge power hog, save the battery on the UPS for the TIVO to continue to record!!!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JBDragon said:


> That's another good reason to have a UPS on your TIVO. Just make sure when the power goes off, you turn off the TV. That's a huge power hog, save the battery on the UPS for the TIVO to continue to record!!!


My UPS died recently and I haven't replaced it yet (the power in this building and neighborhood has been extremely reliable), but when I had it the only things on the UPS were the TiVo, a network switch, and a clock. Everything else was on a surge protector. I figure I can do without watching TV while the power is off, but I don't want to lose any recordings.

Likewise, my dual monitors aren't on my computer's UPS, which is configured to shut down the computer when the battery gets to 10%. That way there's a better chance the computer will still be on when the power comes back.


----------



## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

There is one other consideration that people have not mentioned when looking for a UPS and that is generator compatibility. I have one of the cheap APC models and while it works fine with my Roamio, router and cable modem, it DOES NOT like my conventional rotary generator. 

When the power goes out, I have a non-inverter generator that can power my fridge, sump pump, furnace and entertainment system. If the generator is powering the input to the UPS, the UPS constantly switches in and out of backup mode. Aside from being annoying, this means that the UPS battery is still powering the load for the part of the time that it has switched out of backup mode and will drain the battery if the power is off long enough even if the generator is running and powering the UPS. 

This is because all inexpensive UPS systems switch between mains and backup power. To do this seamlessly, they try to lock onto the power line frequency (and possibly the incoming voltage) so that when they switch to backup, there is a minimal interruption. This is fine if the mains power is stable like it is when running on utility power. But if the incoming AC is provided by a conventional generator, the frequency and possibly the voltage are unstable enough to trick the UPS into periodically thinking the power has failed and it switches in and out of backup mode. 

There are two possible solutions if you use a generator during longer power outages....

1. Use an "offline" UPS. An offline UPS always powers the load from the backup source. While mains power is available, it charges the battery faster than it is drained by the load. Since it does not care as much about the stability of the incoming power, offline UPSs tend to be more generator friendly. Trouble is that offline UPS systems tend to be larger and more expensive, consume power power in standby and also some can make noise (fan, power supply, etc) even in standby. 

OR

2. Use an "inverter" generator. Inverter generators actually generate DC and convert it to stable AC electronically. They have several advantages.... the output power is clean and stable and should not be a problem to your UPS. Inverter generators also can throttle down during light loads and use far less fuel. 

Or just ignore the fact that your UPS does not remain in mains mode 100% when powered by a generator and accept that the battery run time (and the relay lifetime for that matter) will be shortened  

Hope this helps,
Paul


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

pgoelz said:


> There is one other consideration that people have not mentioned when looking for a UPS and that is generator compatibility. I have one of the cheap APC models and while it works fine with my Roamio, router and cable modem, it DOES NOT like my conventional rotary generator.
> 
> When the power goes out, I have a non-inverter generator that can power my fridge, sump pump, furnace and entertainment system. If the generator is powering the input to the UPS, the UPS constantly switches in and out of backup mode. Aside from being annoying, this means that the UPS battery is still powering the load for the part of the time that it has switched out of backup mode and will drain the battery if the power is off long enough even if the generator is running and powering the UPS.
> 
> ...


I have a 30KW generator that ran for a week back in 2011 when much of the east cost was without power, never saw any problem with my CyperPower 850 AVR that my computer is connected to. Small portable generators may give you some of the problems you were talking about.


----------



## jerrykur (Jun 23, 2009)

lessd said:


> I have a 30KW generator that ran for a week back in 2011 when much of the east cost was without power, never saw any problem with my CyperPower 850 AVR that my computer is connected to. Small portable generators may give you some of the problems you were talking about.


Power out for a week. I would be freaking out.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jerrykur said:


> Power out for a week. I would be freaking out.


Most of my town in CT was out from 5 days to 10 days (because of trees down in a early 2011 freak snow storm when the leaves were still on the trees), I was out 7 days, with my Kohler 30KW I had few problems, cost me $300 in natural gas for the week, got $100 back from the electric co.


----------

