# Cannot "Thumbs Up or Down" Suggestions?



## glen4cindy (Jul 18, 2003)

My Roamio has been upgraded to the "New" TiVo Experience and so far I suppose I like it OK.

One thing I am noticing that seems very different is there seems to be no ability to Thumbs Down some of the Suggestions it is recording.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember being able to do that using the original software load. I like the idea of having it record suggestions but if I can't thumbs up or down, how is it supposed to "learn" what I like and what I don't?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Well, I don't know about thumbs, but I do know the new suggestions are reported to not work nearly as well as the old ones.


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## glen4cindy (Jul 18, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> Well, I don't know about thumbs, but I do know the new suggestions are reported to not work nearly as well as the old ones.


I'm finding they must be either on or off. Deleting without watching is not working because it keeps recording the same show again and again and I keep deleting it again and again.

Under the old interface, I was able to press green thumbs up to like suggestions and red thumbs down to dislike them. It was x, xx, xxx, just like for other recordings and it would taylor suggestions to those choices.


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## 53richart (Feb 26, 2019)

I can play any recording and while it is playing give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down.


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## sharriso (May 7, 2004)

With this latest update, we lost thumbs up / down capabilities on all 3 of our TiVo's. We never use Suggestions, but did use it to keep track of what we'd already watched! It's now supposed to remember what you watch to choose suggestions. I turned them on and it started recording kids shows (which we don't watch), and reruns of shows got which I have a One Pass set not to record reruns. We hate this update!


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## Dean Johnson (Nov 4, 2017)

sharriso said:


> With this latest update, we lost thumbs up / down capabilities on all 3 of our TiVo's. We never use Suggestions, but did use it to keep track of what we'd already watched! It's now supposed to remember what you watch to choose suggestions. I turned them on and it started recording kids shows (which we don't watch), and reruns of shows got which I have a One Pass set not to record reruns. We hate this update!


Did you know in settings you cat turn on auto-skip so I like that from this update. But I agree I have also lost thumbs up and thumbs down. Can't imagine they intended to remove that feature. I am hoping we will see a fix soon. Someone from Tivo please respond.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I am also missing thumbs on my bolt, it is recording tons of shows that I dislike but are popular.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> ... my bolt, it is recording tons of shows that I dislike but are popular.


But is that a change just with the recent update, 21.9.1, or since you upgraded to Hydra/TE4?


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> But is that a change just with the recent update, 21.9.1, or since you upgraded to Hydra/TE4?


I have 21.9.1 but I don't know when it installed, I found this thread when I noticed the thumbs didn't work.

Looks like it was intentional No Thumbs on Hydra??


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> I have 21.9.1 but I don't know when it installed, I found this thread when I noticed the thumbs didn't work.
> 
> Looks like it was intentional No Thumbs on Hydra??


Right ... the Thumbs rating mechanism was yanked from the UI with the Spring Update ... but, puzzlingly, TE4/Hydra hasn't been using the Thumbs ratings for Suggestions for quite some time (since its release, I believe). So I'd have thought you would have been displeased with recorded Suggestions prior to the Spring Update.


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I think I noticed because it is rerun season and the live tuner was now often recording suggestions. After looking through what it has been recording I'm going to bump the power save setting to not record them.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

This and other removals are EXACTLY bwhy I stay on TE3.
Thumbs work just fine on it. To actually remove a key feature of their system, complete with the remote real estate is ridiculous. Whomever thought removing thumbs and thumbs for suggestion should be fired.

Thet remove reatures and HIDE the removals from their own CSRs!!!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

It would be fine, and even great, if there was a good substitute in place. But 'tis not the case, and was not the case a year+ ago when TiVo unleashed Suggestions 2.0 into the wild, apparently having no idea how badly it would function or not really caring at least in the short-term. (Personally, I think that my manual input of my preferences through thumbs is one of the best tells.)


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

That is why i stay on TE3

Barely any upgrades to break stuff
My tivo is still a tivo
Thumbs and suggestions work just fine
If i want media apps i use my roku ultra


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## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

Wow, I turn on suggestions to get some programs recorded I may like. It started recording daytime soap operas. I tried to thrumbs down to let the system know I HATE those shows. Surprise! I can't get thumbs to work. I then noticed I can't thumbs any show now. 

Doesn't this make the suggestions feature useless? Why turn it on if it's going to fill my tivo with soap operas and I can't even tell it I hate shows like that. Who thought this was a good idea? Suggestions was a great TiVo feature. 

OH, and now the remote has two useless and very colorful buttons.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

hairyblue said:


> OH, and now the remote has two useless and very colorful buttons.


They are white and smaller on a VOX remote and they still are used for restarts, resets.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Chant TE3 TE3 Te3


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> They are white and smaller on a VOX remote and they still are used for restarts, resets.


... and flagging Favorites channels from the Guide (on a DVR).


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

hairyblue said:


> Wow, I turn on suggestions to get some programs recorded I may like. It started recording daytime soap operas. I tried to thrumbs down to let the system know I HATE those shows. Surprise! I can't get thumbs to work. I then noticed I can't thumbs any show now.
> 
> Doesn't this make the suggestions feature useless? Why turn it on if it's going to fill my tivo with soap operas and I can't even tell it I hate shows like that. Who thought this was a good idea? Suggestions was a great TiVo feature.
> 
> OH, and now the remote has two useless and very colorful buttons.


They are still used for WishLists ... optionals vs. negatives.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Furmaniac said:


> They are still used for WishLists ... optionals vs. negatives.


Examples:


krkaufman said:


> How so? ... edit: Nevermind. Keyword prioritization.
> 
> View attachment 41656
> 
> ...



Also used for tagging Favorite apps.








(... none of which takes away from the fact that TiVo seemingly dumped a Suggestions mechanism that worked well for many.)


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## hairyblue (Feb 25, 2002)

You guys are not convincing me about the value of the thumb keys without using them on programs I like and dislike. 

TiVo removed a big part of Tivo that made it very useful. I still value my tivo, but it has become a little less useful to me. During the summer months I use to check the suggestions for stuff to watch. Now its full of daytime soaps.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

So does that mean all the wishlist regex stuff that added or exclude keywords is now gone??

Also thumbs is now only used for an optional wierd feature of wishlists and reboot?
Who makes these decisions? Take a 20 year old interface and rip it apart like they did. WHY?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

hairyblue said:


> You guys are not convincing me about the value of the thumb keys without using them on programs I like and dislike.


Understood...


krkaufman said:


> (... none of which takes away from the fact that TiVo seemingly dumped a Suggestions mechanism that worked well for many.)


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## whoknows (May 10, 2010)

Count me in too: I truly hate having the same soap operas recorded over and over as "suggestions" since there's no way to say "thumbs down" anymore!!!!


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## glen4cindy (Jul 18, 2003)

I like having suggestions on but hate having to erase the same shows again and again. 

Previously, even on a suggestion I could thumbs down it and it wouldn’t record that again because it “knew” not to suggest it again. 

Hate to see this go. Even watching a suggestion for a minute to give it 3 thumbs down doesn’t stop it from being recorded as a suggestion again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Getting almost as bad: with TiVo not infrequently not having specific Guide info. for a show episode, the TiVo box records them all, and then I have to go thru the first few minutes of the shows to determine if thy are new or duplicates--an issue especially with my PBS stations, which repeat show episodes.


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

Their website for the latest release still indicates that there are thumbs-up and thumbs-down suggestions. Maybe it was a bug that they were left out and they will be returned in the next update.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Furmaniac said:


> Their website for the latest release still indicates that there are thumbs-up and thumbs-down suggestions. Maybe it was a bug that they were left out and they will be returned in the next update.


Do you have a link for the web page?

edit: TiVo's help page on Suggestions differentiates between TE3 and TE4 behavior:

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/How-to-Use-TiVo-Suggestions

As you watch shows and other content on TiVo Experience 4, your TiVo device uses the information to automatically record shows that may be of interest to you.

With TiVo Experience 3, any time you watch live TV or recorded programs, or browse programs with the Guide, you can rate each show by pressing the *Thumbs Up* and *Thumbs Down* button while the show is selected. You can give a program up to three thumbs up or down.

At first, TiVo may suggest a seemingly random set of shows. Over time, the more shows you rate with your *THUMBS *buttons, the better TiVo Suggestions will be at finding programs you like. ​The page also now leads with this...

The latest software update removes the *Thumbs Up/ Down Decoration *for content personalization from the UI. It was removed to minimize confusion about its role and/or association with the Thumbs button on the remote control.​


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> The page also now leads with this...
> 
> The latest software update removes the *Thumbs Up/ Down Decoration *for content personalization from the UI. It was removed to minimize confusion about its role and/or association with the Thumbs button on the remote control.​


How does removing the Thumbs Decoration minimize confusion about role/association of the Thumbs button? This statement confuses me.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Lurker1 said:


> How does removing the Thumbs Decoration minimize confusion about role/association of the Thumbs button? This statement confuses me.


If the TE4 UI still visually tagged shows with Thumbs Up or Down (up to 3 of either), then users will likely operate under the delusion that the thumbing of shows matters. What's confusing is why Thumbs ratings weren't eliminated on the release of TE4/Hydra, since TE4 Suggestions haven't been using them from the start.


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## Gerhard (Sep 29, 2002)

I’m starting to feel like it’s time to look for another solution even though I’ve been a TiVo owner for 20 years


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> If the TE4 UI still visually tagged shows with Thumbs Up or Down (up to 3 of either), then users will likely operate under the delusion that the thumbing of shows matters. What's confusing is why Thumbs ratings weren't eliminated on the release of TE4/Hydra, since TE4 Suggestions haven't been using them from the start.


What's confusing is why TiVo made the decision to stop using thumbs, a core TiVo feature from the very beginning. Does anyone know anything beyond speculation?
Suggestions without thumbs seems useless, except as a promotional/marketing revenue source. Do broadcasters pay TiVo to have their programs recorded as suggestions?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Lurker1 said:


> What's confusing is why TiVo made the decision to stop using thumbs, a core TiVo feature from the very beginning. Does anyone know anything beyond speculation?
> Suggestions without thumbs seems useless, except as a promotional/marketing revenue source. Do broadcasters pay TiVo to have their programs recorded as suggestions?


I believe they bought some company that specialized in predicting/suggesting viewing content.

Possibly Digitalsmiths: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digitalsmiths


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> I believe they bought some company that specialized in predicting/suggesting viewing content.
> 
> Possibly Digitalsmiths: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digitalsmiths


Interesting.


> Digitalsmiths Seamless Insight™ delivers the reporting and analytics necessary to optimize
> content discovery, deliver targeted content promotions, monitor and improve customer engagement, and increase ARPU. The company is guided by the belief that consumers should not have to work
> to find relevant content-the content should find them.


So, Digitalsmiths is unable to take viewer feedback (thumbs) into account at all, but instead believes fishing shows and other unwanted garbage should find the viewer.


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## stevewjackson (Nov 2, 2007)

Lurker1 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So, Digitalsmiths is unable to take viewer feedback (thumbs) into account at all, but instead believes fishing shows and other unwanted garbage should find the viewer.


This entire idea is anathema to how I use my TiVo and Suggestions. I've discovered several true gems in my years as a TiVo owner and like the idea of discovery, but I've also recorded things I later disliked (thus unhappy with automatic thumbs up when scheduling) and ended up putting thumbs down on suggestions and/or things I chose to record. So to me, losing the ability to watch something without being able to say I do or do not like it, only to have the act of recording/watching taken as a cue to get still more of such drivel isn't smart!!


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## Gerhard (Sep 29, 2002)

I’m downgrading to TE3 to see if the thumbs up and down return on our Bolt.

Otherwise.... its gonna be time to go with other options. 

I alway knew there would be a day when the Tivos had to go in the trash, I just really hoped there would be a clear successor.

The Bolt is recording all sorts of crap I don't want, and it doesn't appear to learn. Its crap like this that alienates people off of brands.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Gerhard said:


> *I'm downgrading to TE3 to see if the thumbs up and down return on our Bolt.*
> 
> Otherwise.... its gonna be time to go with other options.
> 
> ...


I assume--and am hoping--they will. Am on TE3 on a Bolt box here (never having moved to TE4), and thumbs/Suggestions work swimmingly.


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## Milalwi (Jan 9, 2009)

I had "upgraded" to TE4 because of the reported upcoming automatic recording extensions for overtime sporting events, but this is very much making me regret that move.

In my case it's continuing to record reality TV shows, which I hate, and have never recorded. When I complained to TiVo, the response (straight from the knowledge base article) was "As you watch shows and other content on TiVo Experience 4, your TiVo device uses the information to automatically record shows that may be of interest to you." We never, and have never, watched things like "Love Island". I deleted them from the suggestions without watching and if I catch the TiVo recording one of these shows, I "Stop and Delete" the recording.

It's still recording them.

It looks like I'm going to go to the company cable box when my Roamio dies. This is how companies die.

Signed: A 18-year TiVo subscriber.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Milalwi said:


> We never, and have never, watched things like "Love Island".


Yeah, you keep saying that. Your TiVo box_ knows_.

Suggestions just don't work on TE4. Have you considered sidegrading back to TE3?


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Milalwi said:


> We never, and have never, watched things like "Love Island".


Maybe your TiVo is revealing what your teenager watches when you are not home.


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## Milalwi (Jan 9, 2009)

No teenagers, and my wife hates "Reality TV" as much as I do. And frankly, nearly all of our TV watching is together.

If I didn't have 3TB+ of recordings, I might consider going back to TE3. There's too many recordings that I don't want to lose.

Suggestions, and the Thumbs Up/Down system was something I loved. This *feels *like an attempt to push certain (paid) content.

I had noticed that the quality of the Suggestions had declined significantly when TiVo moved to the Rovi guide data. I used to get useful suggestions and I suddenly started getting large numbers of recordings of the same show (different airings) over and over again. The suggestions individually weren't bad, but getting two dozen of them was bad. I liked the variety of the prior suggestions system, it might have recorded two, or maybe three of a particular show, but not 25! It used to grab movies that I might like, it never seems to do that now.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Milalwi said:


> No teenagers, and my wife hates "Reality TV" as much as I do. And frankly, nearly all of our TV watching is together.
> 
> If I didn't have 3TB+ of recordings, I might consider going back to TE3. There's too many recordings that I don't want to lose.
> 
> ...


There is a reason that I'm still on TE3--I'm of your ilk.

I may be naïve, but I really don't think that it has to do with promoting paid content--I think that TiVo was trying something new and super-gee-whiz. Which just didn't work out. But it's now been 16+ months without a fix--and why did TiVo bring the new system out, which users saw, right away, was broken? And why hasn't TiVo switched back to the earlier, working system in the meanwhile, rather than leaving the broken system in place (or would that involve too great a programming effort, to have/get the "old" Suggestions system on TE4)?


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## Randy Spencer (Aug 5, 2019)

I got into a Support Chat just now, sadly, it won't let me copy and paste, but the upshot was them saying they no longer support ratings and instead go off what you watch. I asked what happens when a show is recorded and then the tuner sits on that channel all day while I am away? Told her that I get tons of show suggestions for MSNBC, Fox, and CNN, yet only one show from those is one I record and watch. Seems wrong.

She sent me a link to a page to add my feedback, I asked them to stop paying attention to shows that the TiVo sees if I haven't touched the remote. It should stop tracking until I do it again. Otherwise, it's just playing to perhaps a TV that's off or has no one in the room.


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## ken8631 (Jan 18, 2007)

Please put this feature back on!!!


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## mtoy (Mar 17, 2008)

We watch 1 major network show (Days of Our Lives, lol), the rest is a mix of PBS and channels like Movies, This, etc. We don't watch any major network prime time. Oh, and we're OTA, no cable. I just turned my Tivo suggestions off because it was filled with major network prime time shows. Lots of sitcoms, reality tv, network news. There is no way that it's based on what we watch.


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## TTUGaryGregory (Jan 15, 2012)

Sorry for rehashing the same subject but I wanted to ask if anyone from TiVo has given an official response why this feature was removed. My new DVR is quickly filling up with shows I have absolutely no interest in watching. Also, it seems I’ve spent an inordinate amount of deleting these unwanted shows just to find shows I want a bit easier. 

Thanks.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TTUGaryGregory said:


> Sorry for rehashing the same subject but I wanted to ask if anyone from TiVo has given an official response why this feature was removed. My new DVR is quickly filling up with shows I have absolutely no interest in watching. Also, it seems I've spent an inordinate amount of deleting these unwanted shows just to find shows I want a bit easier.
> 
> Thanks.


TiVo_Ted (TiVo's VP of consumer products/services) got into the "new Suggestions" here in a May 2018 post:


> We are in a transition period where we are combining our new, look-ahead predictive logic with the implicit/explicit thumbs data and we clearly don't have it right yet. It is completely wrong to assume that "we know better than you, your opinions don't matter any more, just trust social media." We have a high profile bug on this issue and are working on it diligently. I setup a new box to test things out and it recorded over 400 programs in just over 5 days. Nobody thinks that is the desired and/or expected behavior.
> 
> The old suggestions algorithm was very basic and relied heavily on collaborative filtering (i.e. people who liked this show also liked this other show). It also only updated ratings once per day because it is highly compute intensive and ran on the TiVo box. This means that you could thumbs-down a bunch of shows and we would keep recording them and suggesting them until the process ran again over night. The new mechanism is a web service which will be able to respond much more quickly to input from active thumbs users. It will also allow us to "tune" the algorithm quickly without needing to update the software on the box.


May 1 update records more junk suggestions

Likewise discussing thumbs, when issues first were being discussed, in the same timeframe:


> I'm looking into this now, but I can confirm that something is not quite right with thumbs up/down in the latest update. It could be a UI issue as Gary suggests, or it could be some underlying issue between the recommendation engine and the scheduling engine as Joe suggests. Or, it could be both. Maybe we should resurrect an old suggestions thread to continue this conversation?


PSA: TiVo Changes - May 2018 User Agreement & Privacy Policy Update - May 2018


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## radway (Jan 15, 2003)

I have owned a half a dozen TiVos, including they very first model, and I want my thumbs up and thumbs down back! They are what made TIVO suggestions work. The current version doesn’t work at all and almost seems to record programs at random, the vast majority of which I would never have an interest in watching.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

radway said:


> I have owned a half a dozen TiVos, including they very first model, and I want my thumbs up and thumbs down back! They are what made TIVO suggestions work. The current version doesn't work at all and almost seems to record programs at random, the vast majority of which I would never have an interest in watching.
> 
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


You always can sidegrade back to TE3 (on everything but the specifically-denominated "Bolt OTA" box), where Suggestions (and thumbs) still work.


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## Brillian1080p (Apr 10, 2006)

I spent more time deleting shows last night than watching a show. I thought it was a glitch at first. It has become much worse lately. After reading this, I'm starting to regret buying a lifetime subscription! Idiotic.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

*Note: *The features and functionalities listed below were introduced with software version 21.9.1 and maintained with the software release:

• Other UI Updates: Removal of Thumbs Up/Down icon for content personalization from the UI;


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## rgarito (Feb 23, 2007)

I have a feeling what we are seeing here is corporate executives performing an acquisition (it was mentioned earlier in the thread) and that acquisition went very badly. They purchased garbage and the principles at the former company are now sitting on an island in the Caribbean laughing while enjoying the aroma of the money they made. Meanwhile, the executives are saving face by ramming the new "feature" down the customer's throats and presenting internal reports showing a "successful adoption rate" (and collecting their bonuses). Meanwhile tech support gets screamed at on a daily basis by customers about this "feature...."

As a software developer for a very large company, I've seen this many times before...

Next up: layoffs when reality sets in and the stock price drops, while the executives get golden parachutes.


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## TTUGaryGregory (Jan 15, 2012)

philhu said:


> So does that mean all the wishlist regex stuff that added or exclude keywords is now gone??
> 
> Also thumbs is now only used for an optional wierd feature of wishlists and reboot?
> Who makes these decisions? Take a 20 year old interface and rip it apart like they did. WHY?


I totally agree. I had mine so tuned that it would record suggestion I really enjoyed. Now, for some reason, it records all of the Fox animated adult shows which I never have liked or recorded.


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## TTUGaryGregory (Jan 15, 2012)

rgarito said:


> I have a feeling what we are seeing here is corporate executives performing an acquisition (it was mentioned earlier in the thread) and that acquisition went very badly. They purchased garbage and the principles at the former company are now sitting on an island in the Caribbean laughing while enjoying the aroma of the money they made. Meanwhile, the executives are saving face by ramming the new "feature" down the customer's throats and presenting internal reports showing a "successful adoption rate" (and collecting their bonuses). Meanwhile tech support gets screamed at on a daily basis by customers about this "feature...."
> 
> As a software developer for a very large company, I've seen this many times before...
> 
> Next up: layoffs when reality sets in and the stock price drops, while the executives get golden parachutes.


I've been writing mainframe software for internal and licensed applications for 30 years and if I pulled a feature like TiVo did (especially without any notice) The outcry would be huge and the feature reinstalled.


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## TTUGaryGregory (Jan 15, 2012)

radway said:


> I have owned a half a dozen TiVos, including they very first model, and I want my thumbs up and thumbs down back! They are what made TIVO suggestions work. The current version doesn't work at all and almost seems to record programs at random, the vast majority of which I would never have an interest in watching.
> 
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


I totally agree! My first TiVo was a Series 1 and have owned a version of the newer version systems ever since.

In August, over a period of several weeks, I lost three TiVo Roamio (hard drive crashes) and TiVo replaced each (for $50) with the Series 6. I immediately disliked the new user interface and now I find out I've lost the thumbs option - the best feature of TiVo.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TTUGaryGregory said:


> In August, over a period of several weeks, I lost three TiVo Roamio (hard drive crashes) and TiVo replaced each (for $50) with the Series 6. I immediately disliked the new user interface and now I find out I've lost the thumbs option - the best feature of TiVo.


The feature is right where it's always been...

How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


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## KCC (May 1, 2016)

IMO Tivo is now just another run of the mill DVR. Suggestions had worked well for me for almost a decade, and I’ve used a TIVO for even longer than that. I changed to leasing my TIVO from my internet provider a few years ago, and then added an external drive for additional capacity. I recently disabled suggestions because my TIVO no longer suggests anything that I’m interested in (single and no kids BTW) and just records a bunch of junk. Overall, the new interface is poorly designed as well It now takes me about three presses to delete a show and I can no longer pull up a listing of the current recorders, just to name a couple of many issues.

Since TIVO no longer works well I’m considering dumping my overpriced cable TV subscription in favor of just subscribing to a couple streaming services.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

KCC said:


> IMO Tivo is now just another run of the mill DVR. Suggestions had worked well for me for almost a decade, and I've used a TIVO for even longer than that. I changed to leasing my TIVO from my internet provider a few years ago, and then added an external drive for additional capacity. I recently disabled suggestions because my TIVO no longer suggests anything that I'm interested in (single and no kids BTW) and just records a bunch of junk. Overall, the new interface is poorly designed as well It now takes me about three presses to delete a show and I can no longer pull up a listing of the current recorders, just to name a couple of many issues.
> 
> Since TIVO no longer works well I'm considering dumping my overpriced cable TV subscription in favor of just subscribing to a couple streaming services.


How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


Usually not an option for leased boxes...


KCC said:


> I changed to leasing my TIVO from my internet provider a few years ago,


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## bbc30 (Jul 27, 2005)

I had to turn Suggestions off after months of frustrations. With Thumbs Up, suggestions was like an automatic season pass for shows I liked. The new system only recorded shows I would never watch. It gives no priority to the old Thumbs Uped shows. I gives to priority to the type of shows, 35, that I have season passes for. It was a complete waste. The good news is that when I delete a show, it stays in the deleted folder for weeks instead of a day or two because there are no suggestions to take up the space.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Congratulation on upgrading to te4

welcome to all the missing and frustration features

phil
A TE3 user who loves thumbs up and down!


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

As Patrick Henry once said, "Give me TE3 or give me death!" (or something like that).


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## f4phantomii (Jan 14, 2004)

I foolishly updated to TE4 Hydra and I now deeply regret it.

I also had a Series 1 as my first box, and like others, have been a customer for 18 years.

The Tivo Suggestions and ability to rank content was *THE* reason I bought one after a friend demo'd the feature.

If that fundamental core feature is now gone...I'm gone. There's no reason for me to continue paying a subscription when there are literally a half dozen other competitors that do everything else, without the extra subscription.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

f4phantomii said:


> I foolishly updated to TE4 Hydra and I now deeply regret it.
> 
> I also had a Series 1 as my first box, and like others, have been a customer for 18 years.
> 
> ...


Do note that you can sidegrade back to the earlier TE3 UI, where Suggestions_ does_ work, and pretty well.

(Recordings will be lost in the process, but you can transfer non-copy-protected shows you want to save to your PC first, and then back after; pyTivo Desktop works well for this. Likewise, settings will be lost, but many can be saved to your PC via the kmttg software.)


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

TiVo should clearly communicate what you will lose if you update to TE4. A typical customer would never expect that an "upgrade" would remove features that have been core to the TiVo experience from day one.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Just because I was curious, I looked at some TiVo box listings for the Edge and Bolt platforms at TiVo.com and Amazon.com, and didn't see any reference to Suggestions.

That is incredibly sad, where the feature works on TE3 and presumably would work on TE4 had TiVo not decided to replace it with an on-its-face defective algorithm and then not replaced that with the original, still-working system. I mean, this was a major TiVo selling point and feature earlier, and could still be today. I just don't get it.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> That is incredibly sad, where the feature works on TE3 and presumably would work on TE4 had TiVo not decided to replace it with an on-its-face defective algorithm and then not replaced that with the original, still-working system. I mean, this was a major TiVo selling point and feature earlier, and could still be today. I just don't get it.


The only way it makes any sense is if the new suggestion algorithm is another new revenue source, just like everything else added to TE4. It's as if TE4 was designed by/for greedy cable barons, who don't care what their viewers want.


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## gusam (Aug 16, 2002)

i have had multiple tivos over the last 20 years. this is one of the main features that i liked. they need to bring it back. their new suggestion engine is crap. i am tired of spending all my time deleting shows that i would never watch.


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