# Minis say all tuners in use, but all tuners aren't in use



## trip1eX

I can't watch Live TV on either of my Minis. The error message says all tuners in use even though the Roamio Plus is only recording 5 shows.

However I can watch live tv on the Roamio Plus.

To make sure the Roamio isn't using the last tuner, I switch to a recorded show on the Roamio and press pause. But I still can't watch live tv on either Mini.

I go into the guide on a Mini and select a program to record and it starts recording! What happened to all tuners being used? 

Suggestions? Thoughts? I figure the solution is a reboot/reset of the Minis and then Roamio if needed. I say reboot Minis first because I am recording stuff right now. 

I did notice my Roamio rebooted unexpectly yesterday. First time it did that since I bought it last July. My 8 yr old was involved so it remains a bit suspicious.  It seemed to happen at the same time he turned off the tv.


----------



## tarheelblue32

You have to change the live TV channel on the Roamio to one of the 5 channels being recorded for it to release the unused 6th tuner to the Mini. Just playing one of the recordings on the Roamio won't do it.


----------



## trip1eX

tarheelblue32 said:


> You have to change the live TV channel on the Roamio to one of the 5 channels being recorded for it to release the unused 6th tuner to the Mini. Just playing one of the recordings on the Roamio won't do it.


Do you always have to do that?

My kid was watching Netflix on the Roamio when the Mini said all tuners were in use.


----------



## lessd

trip1eX said:


> Do you always have to do that?
> 
> My kid was watching Netflix on the Roamio when the Mini said all tuners were in use.


When the Roamio is on a channel trick play is running, so that channel can't be used for anything else, if you start watching a recording the trick play is still working for that last channel you were watching. Nothing will free up that channel inc Netflix unless you change to one of the 5 channels you are recording or put the Roamio into standby. The Roamio has priority over the attached Mini, normally not a problem with 6 channels to work with.


----------



## tarheelblue32

lessd said:


> ...or put the Roamio into standby...


I never thought about putting the host DVR into standby mode to release tuners. I wonder if a Roamio Plus in standby mode would release all 6 tuners to 6 different Minis at the same time? Unfortunately I don't have 6 Minis to be able to test that, but it would be interesting if someone who does would try it and report back.


----------



## joewom

tarheelblue32 said:


> I never thought about putting the host DVR into standby mode to release tuners. I wonder if a Roamio Plus in standby mode would release all 6 tuners to 6 different Minis at the same time? Unfortunately I don't have 6 Minis to be able to test that, but it would be interesting if someone who does would try it and report back.


Short answer is yes. Well at least what I remember when I tried this as I floated the idea of the roamio not attached to a TV in the beginning. But obviously went a different route now with 3 TIVO DVR and 6 minis.


----------



## trip1eX

lessd said:


> When the Roamio is on a channel trick play is running, so that channel can't be used for anything else, if you start watching a recording the trick play is still working for that last channel you were watching. Nothing will free up that channel inc Netflix unless you change to one of the 5 channels you are recording or put the Roamio into standby. The Roamio has priority over the attached Mini, normally not a problem with 6 channels to work with.


Really? I can't believe it just doesn't release the tuner when not in use especially 1 1/2 years after its debut. 

This is up there when I discovered that the Mini had the old-style remote and not the new one. I'm a little shocked. This seems like a no-brainer thing.

But anyway. What about the following remote work around....

From the Mini, record same show as 1 of the other 5 tuners then stop the recording. That will switch the tuner without me having to go down to the Roamio and interrupt the viewing experience of another family member right?


----------



## lessd

trip1eX said:


> Really? I can't believe it just doesn't release the tuner when not in use especially 1 1/2 years after its debut.
> 
> This is up there when I discovered that the Mini had the old-style remote and not the new one. I'm a little shocked. This seems like a no-brainer thing.
> 
> But anyway. What about the following remote work around....
> 
> From the Mini, record same show as 1 of the other 5 tuners then stop the recording. That will switch the tuner without me having to go down to the Roamio and interrupt the viewing experience of another family member right?


How would the Roamio know when a tuner is not in use, some people leave the TV on all day without using the remote.

When the Mini came out there was no RF TiVos, the new Mini that I expect to be out soon I sure will have a built in RF and come with the RF remote. (I hope it also lets you bridge the MoCa)

If the downstairs Roamio is recording 5 programs, and the last tuner is on some channel I guess you could try to start a record with the remaining ch but I don't know if the Roamio will let you do this, you will have to try.


----------



## Arcady

When I look at the tuner list on a Roamio running 20.4.6, it shows me if a tuner is in use by a Mini. Instead of a channel/show name, it will say something like "Tuner in use by Kitchen box."


----------



## trip1eX

lessd said:


> How would the Roamio know when a tuner is not in use, some people leave the TV on all day without using the remote.


IF you're watching Netflix on the Roamio or don't have the tv on or are watching a recorded show it should let you use the last tuner automatically.



lessd said:


> If the downstairs Roamio is recording 5 programs, and the last tuner is on some channel I guess you could try to start a record with the remaining ch but I don't know if the Roamio will let you do this, you will have to try.


I was able to start a recording on the 6th tuner from my Mini upstairs.

and so the Mini couldn't tune Live TV but it could start a recording on that 6th tuner.

This also goes to your first. If you're going to say how would the Roamio know a tuner is not in use then how come it will let me record on the last tuner from the another device even though that device can't use the tuner to watch live tv.

That doesn't make much sense to me. I'd guess it's just a dealio where its about legacy code etc. I almost have to use the Mini like the Ipad and just start a recording on the channel I want then watch that.


----------



## lessd

trip1eX said:


> IF you're watching Netflix on the Roamio or don't have the tv on or are watching a recorded show it should let you use the last tuner automatically.
> 
> I was able to start a recording on the 6th tuner from my Mini upstairs.
> 
> and so the Mini couldn't tune Live TV but it could start a recording on that 6th tuner.
> 
> This also goes to your first. If you're going to say how would the Roamio know a tuner is not in use then how come it will let me record on the last tuner from the another device even though that device can't use the tuner to watch live tv.
> 
> That doesn't make much sense to me. I'd guess it's just a dealio where its about legacy code etc. I almost have to use the Mini like the Ipad and just start a recording on the channel I want then watch that.


TiVo thinks recording is more important than Live TV, I don't know what a person looking at the Roamio in the other room would see when you start recording on the only Live TV channel left that they were watching, they may get a question to stop you from recording, I just don't know.


----------



## trip1eX

lessd said:


> TiVo thinks recording is more important than Live TV, I don't know what a person looking at the Roamio in the other room would see when you start recording on the only Live TV channel left that they were watching, they may get a question to stop you from recording, I just don't know.


I'ts just shocking. The person on the Roamio is watching NEtflix, but the person on a Mini can't use the extra tuner but can start a recording?

Tivo really has been resting on its laurels or milking its tech for way too long. IT needs refinement for little things like this.


----------



## skypros

Sorry to bring up an old post.
This happened to me last night..... Turned off the Roamio Plus TV (Living room TV) as I was going to bed.... Turned on the bedroom TV (Mini) and it said all tuners were being used...... This is really piss poor design, as the living room tv was off and thus nobody was using the "roamio's" tuner!!
There really should be a option that you can set in the menu, that when you press the TV PWR (on-off) it should release-capture the roamios tuner!!!!


----------



## dianebrat

skypros said:


> Sorry to bring up an old post.
> This happened to me last night..... Turned off the Roamio Plus TV (Living room TV) as I was going to bed.... Turned on the bedroom TV (Mini) and it said all tuners were being used...... This is really piss poor design, as the living room tv was off and thus nobody was using the "roamio's" tuner!!
> *There really should be a option that you can set in the menu, that when you press the TV PWR (on-off) it should release-capture the roamios tuner!!!!*


That really is an out there suggestion, but feel free to make it in the suggestions forum. Tivo has never directly queried the TV for its status nor IMNSHO should it, I have 3 Tivos in my rack (don't ask) and only 1 is ever actually being watched on the TV, I would never say stop buffering those other 10 tuners.

What you didn't say was why your Roamio had no tuners, were they all occupied with suggestions/recordings?


----------



## JoeKustra

dianebrat said:


> What you didn't say was why your Roamio had no tuners, were they all occupied with suggestions/recordings?


I was going to ask the OP if he would check the tuner's status if there was a tool to do that, but it sounded as if was just easier to complain. And I would disable any CEC/HDMI control in a second. It's just evil.


----------



## skypros

dianebrat said:


> That really is an out there suggestion, but feel free to make it in the suggestions forum. Tivo has never directly queried the TV for its status nor IMNSHO should it, I have 3 Tivos in my rack (don't ask) and only 1 is ever actually being watched on the TV, I would never say stop buffering those other 10 tuners.
> 
> What you didn't say was why your Roamio had no tuners, were they all occupied with suggestions/recordings?


Yes, 5 tuners were being used for recording....and the 1 that the Roamio is holding thinking someone is using it



JoeKustra said:


> I was going to ask the OP if he would check the tuner's status if there was a tool to do that, but it sounded as if was just easier to complain. And I would disable any CEC/HDMI control in a second. It's just evil.


Sorry if I was ranting.... It just really makes me mad. 
But can't there be a "option" for CEC/HDMI control.... so you can disable it.... yet I could enable it if I wished?


----------



## JoeKustra

skypros said:


> Yes, 5 tuners were being used for recording....and the 1 that the Roamio is holding thinking someone is using it
> 
> Sorry if I was ranting.... It just really makes me mad.
> But can't there be a "option" for CEC/HDMI control.... so you can disable it.... yet I could enable it if I wished?


I'm surprised that it doesn't already have it. If enabled it could at least put the TiVo into Standby. A lot of people would like that. Send them an enhancement request.


----------



## krkaufman

skypros said:


> There really should be a option that you can set in the menu, that when you press the TV PWR (on-off) it should release-capture the roamios tuner!!!!


There is an option in the UI that releases the tuners when you're not using the Roamio DVR. Look under:
*Settings & Messages => Standby*​


----------



## skypros

krkaufman said:


> There is an option in the UI that releases the tuners when you're not using the Roamio DVR. Look under:
> *Settings & Messages => Standby*​


Thanks krkaufman...... You know that works, though the only problem with that is it's simplicity..... I would have to go the to menu / standby then power down the TV..... Lots of key presses....

Now if standby could be implanted into the Tv Pwr button so it will: turn TV off and put the Tivo in standby..... then when I want to watch TV... Pressing the TV Pwr button will turn the TV on and take the tivo out of standby.... This would be a awesome feature.


----------



## dianebrat

skypros said:


> Thanks krkaufman...... You know that works, though the only problem with that is it's simplicity..... I would have to go the to menu / standby then power down the TV..... Lots of key presses....
> 
> Now if standby could be implanted into the Tv Pwr button so it will: turn TV off and put the Tivo in standby..... then when I want to watch TV... Pressing the TV Pwr button will turn the TV on and take the tivo out of standby.... This would be a awesome feature.


Or like many users that use a universal remote you could use the Standby button on that, those Harmony folks swear by their remotes..

Tivo has never implemented HDMI-CEC and judging from the flawed implementation I've seen of it on almost every device I've had it on at one time or another I think they made the right call, I can't imagine turning my TV off and having ALL THREE Tivos stop recoding suggestions because the TV was turned off.

[rant] for those of us that have been with Tivo from the beginning and through the bad years it's always interesting to see new users that just think it's easy to build a DVR and change features mid-stream since the MSOs do it apparently every year on some platforms, but they don't see how Tivo's lack of jumping on every new trend has actually helped them be a far more stable OS for their DVRs. [/rant]


----------



## krkaufman

skypros said:


> Thanks krkaufman...... You know that works, though the only problem with that is it's simplicity..... I would have to go the to menu / standby then power down the TV..... Lots of key presses....
> 
> Now if standby could be implanted into the Tv Pwr button so it will: turn TV off and put the Tivo in standby..... then when I want to watch TV... Pressing the TV Pwr button will turn the TV on and take the tivo out of standby.... This would be a awesome feature.


Putting a Roamio or Mini (especially a Roamio) into standby is far harder than I'd prefer -- but bringing either OUT of standby, along w/ the TV, is far easier... just a quick press of the TV Pwr button followed by the TiVo button.


----------



## skypros

JoeKustra said:


> I'm surprised that it doesn't already have it. If enabled it could at least put the TiVo into Standby. A lot of people would like that. Send them an enhancement request.


Done, Thank You for the suggestion to contact Tivo and request the feature.


----------



## trip1eX

My old thread. Funny I could care less about this now. 

I just don't watch much live tv. And so can't recall this issue creeping up again the past 6 months. 

Plus you can record your live show and watch that as a work around. 

It doesn't solve channel surfing though for those that channel surf.


----------



## dougdingle

For those who occasionally get "All tuners in use" when in fact they are not (not even close), prime suspect is the Tuning Adapter.

I had mine go stupid a couple of nights ago (not unsync from Mom, just lose its little mind), and none of the Minis would work for more than a minute before throwing up that message, not even when tuned to channels that didn't need the TA to work.

Rebooting the TA fixed the issue, although it did take the thing more than an hour and several reboots before it synced. I hate Tuning Adapters.


----------



## merccat

I'm a new Tivo owner having set mine up almost exactly a month ago now.

Having come over from Dish's Hopper dvr i was not too supprised to see this as i would encounter the same thing on their version of the Mini (Joey). Their solution was to simply allow the mini to manage the master dvr's tuners. Without having to go to the other room you could see what each tuner was being used for and stop a recording, disconnect another Joey or join a tuner. Im really pretty supprised this feature is missing in the Tivo but not a deal breaker.

For my setup My roamio is in a dedicated media room connected to a projector so I rarely watch the roamio directly, i'm almost always watching on the mini's so it woukd be really nice to manage tuners from the mini's. Also, i think the mini should be able to continue to play the programming while in tivo central. This is anoter feature that my older generation 1 hopper and its joeys had and im again supprised is missing from the Tivo.

Other than those things which are just annoyances more than anything there is a lot to love with the system.


----------



## trip1eX

dougdingle said:


> For those who occasionally get "All tuners in use" when in fact they are not (not even close), prime suspect is the Tuning Adapter.
> 
> I had mine go stupid a couple of nights ago (not unsync from Mom, just lose its little mind), and none of the Minis would work for more than a minute before throwing up that message, not even when tuned to channels that didn't need the TA to work.
> 
> Rebooting the TA fixed the issue, although it did take the thing more than an hour and several reboots before it synced. I hate Tuning Adapters.


You don't need a tuning adapter to have this problem.


----------



## dougdingle

trip1eX said:


> You don't need a tuning adapter to have this problem.


Maybe not, but in the two months I've had the system the only time this happened was when the TA went stupid. The TA has quite an intimate relationship with the tuners.


----------



## HarperVision

trip1eX said:


> You don't need a tuning adapter to have this problem.





dougdingle said:


> Maybe not, but in the two months I've had the system the only time this happened was when the TA went stupid. The TA has quite an intimate relationship with the tuners.


Maybe its an issue with the channel mapping then, since the TA takes it over from the cablecard when it's installed?


----------



## trip1eX

dougdingle said:


> Maybe not, but in the two months I've had the system the only time this happened was when the TA went stupid. The TA has quite an intimate relationship with the tuners.


Well I started this thread and never had a TA. The issue I posted is not a bug. It is how the Roamio is designed.

You might be talking about a different issue that gives a similar "error."


----------



## imt

From my understanding with a DVR/Mini Setup, 2 of the Tuners are never shared with Mini's. So a 4 Tuner model will only have, at most, 2 avail tuners to share w/ mini's and a 6 Channel DVR will have 4. 

The DVR keeps 1 tuner for itself and there is another reserved for recording purposes.


----------



## tarheelblue32

imt said:


> From my understanding with a DVR/Mini Setup, 2 of the Tuners are never shared with Mini's. So a 4 Tuner model will only have, at most, 2 avail tuners to share w/ mini's and a 6 Channel DVR will have 4.
> 
> The DVR keeps 1 tuner for itself and there is another reserved for recording purposes.


Your understanding is incorrect. The DVR always keeps 1 tuner for itself. With a 4-tuner TiVo, up to 3 tuners can be used for live TV by 3 different Minis. With a 6-tuner TiVo, up to 5 can be used for live TV by Minis.


----------



## krkaufman

dougdingle said:


> For those who occasionally get "All tuners in use" when in fact they are not (not even close), prime suspect is the Tuning Adapter.
> 
> I had mine go stupid a couple of nights ago (not unsync from Mom, just lose its little mind), and none of the Minis would work for more than a minute before throwing up that message, not even when tuned to channels that didn't need the TA to work.
> 
> Rebooting the TA fixed the issue, although it did take the thing more than an hour and several reboots before it synced. I hate Tuning Adapters.





trip1eX said:


> You don't need a tuning adapter to have this problem.


Agreed, Doug's issue isn't related to the OP symptoms; Doug's issue seems more in-line with the problem described in this thread...
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=526239

Error message on the Mini:
_"Live TV is temporarily unavailable because the Living Room DVR is using a setting that requires all tuners."_​
... which one user resolved by replacing their tuning adapter. (Though it's unclear whether the problem remained resolved.)

And the same issue is currently being experienced by another TCF poster, here:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10706716#post10706716​
.


----------



## dougdingle

I have not had the problem reappear since that one time it happened, and rebooting the TA fixed it once it got sync.

My system is all hard wired cat6 (no MOCA), and the Roamio and minis are coming off the same network switch, for whatever that's worth.

Looking at the other thread you referenced, removing the TA consists of unplugging the USB cable and bypassing the coax connectors, connecting the cable feed directly to the TiVo. You should get an 'error screen' saying the TA has been disconnected, which needs to be acknowledged before moving on. No need to redo guided setup or anything else. Same with reconnecting it - on screen message that a TA has just been added, acknowledge, move on.


----------



## krkaufman

dougdingle said:


> I have not had the problem reappear ...


Thanks for all that feedback.

Your comments make it evident that rebooting the DVR might restore tuner access post-reboot, but it's the tuning adapter that needs to be rebooted. When you fixed this issue, did it only require reboot of the tuning adapter (i.e. and not the DVR, as well)?

Also, it now seems obvious that that critical message on the DVR acknowledging that the tuning adapter has been removed will only occur when the USB cable has been removed. Excellent info.

p.s. And if someone has split the coax going to the tuning adapter and DVR, as recommended for MoCA setups, they would really only need to disconnect the USB cable. The tuning adapter could stay connected via coax off its separate splitter output. Right?


----------



## snerd

krkaufman said:


> p.s. And if someone has split the coax going to the tuning adapter and DVR, as recommended for MoCA setups, they would really only need to disconnect the USB cable. The tuning adapter could stay connected via coax off its separate splitter output. Right?


I think that would work, as long as the TA is left powered up. Powering down the TA _might_ prevent it from acting as a proper 75-ohm load.


----------



## dougdingle

krkaufman said:


> Thanks for all that feedback.
> 
> Your comments make it evident that rebooting the DVR might restore tuner access post-reboot, but it's the tuning adapter that needs to be rebooted. When you fixed this issue, did it only require reboot of the tuning adapter (i.e. and not the DVR, as well)?
> 
> Also, it now seems obvious that that critical message on the DVR acknowledging that the tuning adapter has been removed will only occur when the USB cable has been removed. Excellent info.
> 
> p.s. And if someone has split the coax going to the tuning adapter and DVR, as recommended for MoCA setups, they would really only need to disconnect the USB cable. The tuning adapter could stay connected via coax off its separate splitter output. Right?


The Roamio was not rebooted, only the TA, if I remember correctly (it was a while ago). I suspected the TA was the issue because despite the green sync light being lit, the Roamio was having problems accessing channels that could only be tuned with a working TA. I've had the TA become un-synced before (I've had TAs for a lot of years), but there has never before been an issue where the TA appeared synced but the channels it gave access to were not available. I normally avoid rebooting the TA, but this seemed like it was necessary.

Rebooting the TA is taking a chance - I've had them sync back up in mere moments, in an hour or two, or requiring many hits from Time Warner's cablecard/TA support center (who, by the way, always seem really knowledgeable and helpful with cable card or TA issues).

I believe you are correct that if you feed the TA and TiVo split cable signals, not looping through the TA, that only the USB cable needs to be disconnect to bypass the TA's chatter to the cable card and tuners.


----------



## JBDragon

trip1eX said:


> I can't watch Live TV on either of my Minis. The error message says all tuners in use even though the Roamio Plus is only recording 5 shows.
> 
> However I can watch live tv on the Roamio Plus.
> 
> To make sure the Roamio isn't using the last tuner, I switch to a recorded show on the Roamio and press pause. But I still can't watch live tv on either Mini.
> 
> I go into the guide on a Mini and select a program to record and it starts recording! What happened to all tuners being used?
> 
> Suggestions? Thoughts? I figure the solution is a reboot/reset of the Minis and then Roamio if needed. I say reboot Minis first because I am recording stuff right now.
> 
> I did notice my Roamio rebooted unexpectly yesterday. First time it did that since I bought it last July. My 8 yr old was involved so it remains a bit suspicious.  It seemed to happen at the same time he turned off the tv.


I thought the whole point of TIVO is NOT to watch live TV!!! I can't recall the last time I did such a thing. I record anything and everything for the simple fact of wanting to skip commercials. That includes such things as Football games. Wait a hour and then start watching and skipping. If you're going to watch LIVE TV, why have a Tivo?


----------



## krkaufman

JBDragon said:


> I thought the whole point of TIVO is NOT to watch live TV!!! * I can't recall the last time I did such a thing. * I record anything and everything for the simple fact of wanting to skip commercials. That includes such things as Football games. Wait a hour and then start watching and skipping. If you're going to watch LIVE TV, why have a Tivo?


Yeah, you *or* the OP:


trip1eX said:


> My old thread. Funny I could care less about this now.
> 
> *I just don't watch much live tv. And so can't recall this issue creeping up again the past 6 months.*


----------

