# Where can I get a generic no-subscrption DVR?



## Ben321 (Aug 8, 2011)

I keep hearing about TIVO being so great. In fact TIVO has so much become synonymous with DVR I'm not even sure if there are other brands that still exist (lost customers to TIVO maybe?). So I picked up this used TIVO Series-2 down at Goodwill for only $13, BUT I find it's got a problem. The problem is while TIVO does have features that aren't part of what I would think of a normal DVR as being capable of (TV guide, recommended shows, etc) it doesn't even provide BASIC DVR service when operating under free mode! I would think paying unlocked the "extra" features, though while operating in "free" mode it would still have the normal DVR features (basically behaving as an ordinary VCR, except it's digital recording to a HDD instead of analog recording to a tape). However this is NOT the case! ALL DVR FEATURES ARE DISABLED when operating in free mode. This is worst business practice EVER. Best way to turn off customers. I certainly will NOT be paying money to such a greedy company.

Even worse, I don't even know if there ARE any "generic DVR" brands that simply behave as digital VCRs for recording what you want whenever you want with no restrictions or subscriptions. I used to hear about DVRs, but then TIVO came along and I just hear about TIVO and not about DVRs. So I'm guessing everyone went with the TIVO "fad", and the other DVR companies went bankrupt.

So I'm stuck trying to figure out how to find a "generic DVR", or how to hack a my used TIVO Series-2 box to give me generic DVR functionality!

THIS SUCKS!


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## wizbang_fl (Jan 2, 2012)

Sorry, but the Tivo Service is how you get the program information. Tivo updates load program information and operating software. Always has been this way. I had a generic DVR for my Computer a few years ago and after 1 year it also had a subscription requirement to get additional updates. 

I think some people have adjusted their Tivo's to allow for customization, but don't know how useful it made the box without the service. Personally, when I obtained my Tivo 4 years ago I got a lifetime subscription with it.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

You're not going to get any help here. What you want to do by hacking it to run as a dumb VCR is theft of service, which is a forbidden topic.

TiVo has always sold the boxes at a loss. What you pay for by subscribing(in addition to guide data) is the right to use their software at all. That's their business model and no amount of complaining will change it.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

If you're running Windows 7 on your PC then all you need is a tuner card to have a "generic" DVR with no fees attached. Windows Media Center comes with every version of Windows 7 except Home Basic. It includes DVR software that allows you to record shows just like a Tivo. Install a tuner card and drivers and then run through Media Center setup. It will download the program guide based on your zip code and the type of service you're using (i.e., OTA or digital cable). 

With a cablecard tuner you can even record encrypted cable channels from digital cable or FIOS. The channel's you can record depend on what you're subscribed to, of course. If you just want to record OTA channels then all you need is an antenna. I've got a WMC PC that I use with twelve tuners (eight cablecard and four ATSC). My S3 Tivo with lifetime has been retired for use strictly as a digital tuner for a 42" LCD monitor.

Did I mention that a WMC PC has virtually all the same capabilities as a Tivo and then some? I use it for 1080p Blu-Ray playback with full HD audio and it works great.


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## jpcamaro70 (Nov 23, 2011)

"The worst business pratice ever"

Not by a long shot. As a cable customer, before i bought the tivo, I was paying 10.95 per month for the box and 6.95 for dvr service.

As a Directv customer i am paying 6.00 per box per month plus a 7.00 per month dvr service.

As a tivo customer, I own the box and pay 20.00 per month. not cheap, but not outrageous. They aren't doing anything wrong, when you have a good product you are allowed to charge more for it.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

There were a few TiVo models that came with "free" TiVo basic service. These could have three days of guide data but no season passes or other features. You can usually find them on ebay or craigslist. They were made by Pioneer or Toshiba. See the forum labeled DVD TiVo for more.

You may also find some VCR's out there somewhere. I have one, but the newspaper doesn't publish VCR+ data any more. I have it to play some old movies that have not yet made it to DVD, or to convert old home movies for the family to digital.

A brand new TiVo Premiere with lifetime service is $500 if you don't own any TiVos with service. That gets away from the monthly charges, unless you need a cablecard, and competes with the low end of HTPCs on cost.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Ben321 said:


> So I picked up this used TIVO Series-2 down at Goodwill for only $13


Expecting to pay $13 for a fully functional DVR is unrealistic. The power supply and hard drive are worth more than $13 if sold individually.

You can find a used series 2 with lifetime service on line for around $100 and keep the goodwill tivo for spare parts.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

The Sony DHG-HDD250 and HDD500 are the product you're looking for, but they weren't very good, but they meet 100% of your needs and take a CableCARD.

A Tivo is not what you want since as others have said, it is the SERVICE that makes it work, not the hardware. It's like buying a cellphone and then being surprised that you need to buy service to make calls.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

The problem is, DVRs are sort of like cell phones. If they had to charge enough money to make a profit on the hardware (without a subscription), nobody would buy them. So TiVo takes a loss on the hardware with the intention of making it up on monthly subscriptions.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

Never even thought about it since I have two Tivos and if Tivo goes away, I can get one for a monthly fee from my cable company but I have never seen a DVR for sale at Wal-Mart like they sell DVD players etc.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

If you just want VCR-like functionality, there are a couple of options from Channel Master, assuming you just want OTA recording.

http://www.channelmastertv.com/

-Ted


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

ggieseke said:


> You're not going to get any help here. What you want to do by hacking it to run as a dumb VCR is theft of service, which is a forbidden topic.
> 
> TiVo has always sold the boxes at a loss. What you pay for by subscribing(in addition to guide data) is the right to use their software at all. That's their business model and no amount of complaining will change it.


IMO, using it as a VCR with timed recordings (no program data) shouldn't be considered theft of service. But really, who wants to manually program all their shows in based on the air time?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Anyway, to answer the OP-
http://www.moxi.com/us/moxi_dvr.html

About $500.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Another option:
http://www.myvulkano.com/products.html

It is not as accurate, reliable, and full-featured as a Tivo but it may work for you. It records shows and also by-passes some copyright restrictions. It also provides placeshifting (like a Slingplayer).

A 32GB SD card holds a surprisingly large number of recordings (SD only) in my Platinum (discontinued model) Vulkano.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

dianebrat said:


> It's like buying a cellphone and then being surprised that you need to buy service to make calls.


well said!
Course, that is easy for us to say that have lifetime Tivos that we don't have to pay any fees. 
Hmmm... that gives me an idea. What about a lifetime cell phone?


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## steve771 (Dec 30, 2011)

Do yourself a favor and stay away from the Channel Master 7400. I had a 7000 and it worked well for what it was. It was basically a timer based DVR that got program guide info for 7 days from TVGOS. Since I was happy with the 7000 (they don't make it anymore), I thought the 7400 would be a nice step up... WRONG! It is the most buggy piece of junk I've seen. Just look up the reviews on Amazon. I sent mine back to Amazon and got a Tivo, which I'm enjoying very much so far.

You could go the HTPC route. I did for about 6 months and realized I didn't want to maintain another computer. It does a lot of stuff well, but it's something you have to monitor more so than a Tivo. I realized I just wanted to watch/record HD TV and I was willing to pay a bit more for that.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Adam1115 said:


> Anyway, to answer the OP-
> http://www.moxi.com/us/moxi_dvr.html
> 
> About $500.


The Retail Moxi is a dead platform and are no longer available new. I would stay away from the Moxi, it is only a matter of time before support and guide data are discontinued - IMO.

The OP never said if he wanted or needed an HD-DVR w/ CableCARD, so if by chance an SD-DVR (DVD-R w/HDD) would work this is a very popular model.

*Magnavox MDR513H/F7 HDD and DVD Recorder with Digital Tuner*
http://www.amazon.com/MAGNAVOX-MDR513H-F7-Recorder-Digital/dp/B003DPKOKK/

*Magnavox MDR515H 500GB HDD and DVD-R with Digital Tuner*
http://www.amazon.com/Magnavox-MDR515H-500GB-DVD-R-Digital/dp/B004PYDE1E/

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12244086#post12244086

I happen to also own a *Panasonic DMR-EH50S* SD-DVR (DVD-R w/HDD) and it is a fantastic recorder if your cable co transmits the TVGOS service in Analog through a digital set top box. You can check to see if your cable provider does here: http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx?link_id=rightPromo
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PANASONIC-DVD-RECORDER-DMR-EH50-NEW-BOX-UNOPENED-MINT-/220923189752


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

replaytv said:


> well said!
> Course, that is easy for us to say that have lifetime Tivos that we don't have to pay any fees.
> Hmmm... that gives me an idea. What about a lifetime cell phone?


Never happen. There is too much money in data transmission that the telco's would never go for it.

Now, one could buy a 4000 or 5000 series ReplayTV replaytv, since the 'cat' is out of the bag. No fees required (except MAYBE a subscription to schedulesdirect).

Cheers!
-Doug


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Ben321 said:


> Even worse, I don't even know if there ARE any "generic DVR" brands that simply behave as digital VCRs for recording what you want whenever you want with no restrictions or subscriptions.


You haven't actually explained what you want/need:
ANALOG cable (useful IMHO, though becoming increasingly obsolete)
DIGITAL cable
DIGITAL cable WITH cablecard (anything beyond "basic cable")
OTA (== ATSC)

BTW, even though I use Tivos, I too think a 'generic DVR' would be useful.. especially if it had more tuners than a Tivo.

Also, while it wasn't intended to be used that way, a series *1* Tivo can be used subscriptionless... But IMHO, it's FAR worse of an experience than an actual DVR intended to be used that way.

(I use a Toshiba XS32 daily along with my Tivos. Since I get far fewer analog channels, I only natively record a few things on it, and they're usually "backup" recordings in case of digital glitches... but I record MANY things from my Tivos ONTO it, especially to watch faster than realtime.)


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Moxi still manufactures MSO set-top-boxes, so support for the retail Moxi is likely to be there for a long time.

Meanwhile, Sezmi bit the dust with absolutely NO support. So those Sezmi's are now brick/boat anchors. Sad to lose competition.

To the OP: TiVo has no choice but to charge a monthly fee (all the MVPD's charge a monthly fee, as well) as it has NO other form of revenue FROM THE SUBSCRIBER (the revenue from ads and aggregated data from all the TiVo's just won't cut it). The MVPD's can give away their DVR's with no upfront money because they get their money back with your subscription to TV packages; TiVo has no such form of revenue. Keep in mind that now the new fee is $19.99 per month for Premieres, so TiVo needs to get its money back some way, then start making money on the sale of the SUBSIDIZED box past the break even point, but that is still a challenge without TV packages and services to add to your bill like the MVPD's.

The TiVo model is well known and reasonable considering they have only 3 modest forms of revenue. TiVo is not the Cable Pig.


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## mdm08033 (Apr 23, 2007)

Maybe we should start an Occupy TiVo protest. I want everyone llese to pay for stuff so I can get it for free. Yeah, that's the ticket. Please don't feed the pigeons.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The OP expected a basic DVR for $13 from goodwill. The OP might find a Series 1 with an early date of manufacture on Craig's list in that price range. The Series 1 with an early date of manufacture will have basic DVR functionality without a subscription.


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## Ben321 (Aug 8, 2011)

slydog75 said:


> IMO, using it as a VCR with timed recordings (no program data) shouldn't be considered theft of service. But really, who wants to manually program all their shows in based on the air time?


I don't even want timed recording, I want press rec to record and stop to stop, FULLY MANUAL recording.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

There are series 2 TiVo DVD combo units with TiVo Basic for free on them, aren't there?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Adam1115 said:


> There are series 2 TiVo DVD combo units with TiVo Basic for free on them, aren't there?


Yes, but they usually sell in the $100 range. The OP wants one for $13.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Series3Sub said:


> To the OP: TiVo has no choice but to charge a monthly fee (all the MVPD's charge a monthly fee, as well)


To be ultra-nitpicky, you can pay lifetime too. (That was taken away for a while a few years ago, but has been true for most of Tivo's existence.)

The lifetime is even more expensive nowadays than it used to be, but one can amortize the price vs $19.99/month to see if it's worth it to them to "gamble". (I had 2 S1s where the gamble was definitely worth it.. a TivoHD still going -- though I do have one drive that got into a reboot loop -- and I have one S3 where the gamble *may* have not paid off.. it's currently dead and I haven't yet tried getting a power supply to see if that would revive it.. But I *still* would go lifetime on a new one.)


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

dstoffa said:


> Never happen. There is too much money in data transmission that the telco's would never go for it.
> 
> Now, one could buy a 4000 or 5000 series ReplayTV replaytv, since the 'cat' is out of the bag. No fees required (except MAYBE a subscription to schedulesdirect).
> 
> ...


Hey Doug!

The ReplayTV 3000 I bought 11 years ago finally went, it's no longer getting guide data or even allow manually scheduled recurring recordings. Wonder if schedule-redirect would work for that as well.

BTW, that was the best $600-700 I've ever spent.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

yunlin12 said:


> Hey Doug!
> 
> The ReplayTV 3000 I bought 11 years ago finally went, it's no longer getting guide data or even allow manually scheduled recurring recordings. Wonder if schedule-redirect would work for that as well.
> 
> BTW, that was the best $600-700 I've ever spent.


Yun,

Good to hear from you, too! Happy New Year!

You have three options with a modem based RTV.

1. Setup FreeSCO on a PC with a modem to intercept your RTV's nightly calls. The RTV requests will be intercepted by WiRNS. WiRNS 3.0 has all the plug-ins needed to authenticate Replays, set clocks, etc, just like the DNNA mothership used to do. The RTV Programmers released the cypher when DNNA initially planned to kill the service back in July. WiRNS gets guide data from schedulesdirect. The cost for the guide data is $20 / year. You could also configure WiRNS to scrape the internets for listings. In the end, if you don't have an old serial modem lying around, this becomes more of a fun project than a cheap solution to get the 3000 working again.

http://www.planetreplay.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14654&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

2. Change the phone number your 3000 dials to get its data. DNNA has since rescinded their decision to end guide data, but they are not maintaining the dial-up network. They leased access through earthlink or something, and more and more numbers just stop working.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1357940

3. You can use the replacement service, percdata:

http://www.percdata.com/

This is a subscription service and is similar to paying Tivo / DNNA a monthly fee.

That being written, if you got 11 years out of a DVR w/o even having to replace a hard disk, you sir certainly spent your money wisely...

I currently use WiRNS with schedulesdirect to set the clocks / feed guide data to my RTV's.

Good luck!
-Doug


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

Ben321 said:


> I keep hearing about TIVO being so great. In fact TIVO has so much become synonymous with DVR I'm not even sure if there are other brands that still exist (lost customers to TIVO maybe?). So I picked up this used TIVO Series-2 down at Goodwill for only $13, BUT I find it's got a problem. The problem is while TIVO does have features that aren't part of what I would think of a normal DVR as being capable of (TV guide, recommended shows, etc) it doesn't even provide BASIC DVR service when operating under free mode! I would think paying unlocked the "extra" features, though while operating in "free" mode it would still have the normal DVR features (basically behaving as an ordinary VCR, except it's digital recording to a HDD instead of analog recording to a tape). However this is NOT the case! ALL DVR FEATURES ARE DISABLED when operating in free mode. This is worst business practice EVER. Best way to turn off customers. I certainly will NOT be paying money to such a greedy company.
> 
> Even worse, I don't even know if there ARE any "generic DVR" brands that simply behave as digital VCRs for recording what you want whenever you want with no restrictions or subscriptions. I used to hear about DVRs, but then TIVO came along and I just hear about TIVO and not about DVRs. So I'm guessing everyone went with the TIVO "fad", and the other DVR companies went bankrupt.
> 
> ...


In case no one else has mentioned it here, aside from some of the DVD/DVR combo S2 Tivos that had limited service, the only one I know of that provides "free" DVR functions is the S1. I can't speak for the S1 Sony but the S1 Philips allows manual (set time and channel) recording like a VCR.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Ben321 said:


> I don't even want timed recording, I want press rec to record and stop to stop, FULLY MANUAL recording.


TiVos don't really work that way, subscribed or not.

If you press record it will record the show that's currently on, including the previous 30 minutes of it if the channel hasn't been changed since before that, and it will stop recording when that show ends.

For example, if your TiVo is already on the channel of one of your local broadcast stations and the 6:00 news is underway, you can press record and it will take what's already in it's 30 minute cache, beginning at the 6:00 mark, and store it as that show and add the rest of it as it comes in, but at 6:30, when the network news starts, it won't record that unless you've told it to. It won't start recording when you press record and just keep on truckin' 'til you hit stop or it fills up the hard drive.

That's just not the way they designed it.

Sometimes it's frustrating that it isn't, like when it's just turned 6:00 and you want to record as much as possible of the show that ran from 5:30 to 6:00, but things are the way they are.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Here's some "no subscription" DVRs you can consider.

TiVo with Lifetime. Once you have lifetime, service is free on the box.

Windows Media Center - just get a PC and a TV tuner. WMC includes free guide service. The tuner card probably also comes with DVR-like software.

Cablebox DVR - provided by your cable company - you can either buy it outright or rent it.

DVD recorder with hard drive.

PC + MythTV, if you're handy with Linux.

There's tons of options.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

This one has a subscription, but it is relatively cheap:

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-33376_1-57...r-for-the-cord-cutting-crowd/?tag=epicStories


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## Millionaire2K (Jun 16, 2008)

You can get a NON sub TIVO by buying lifetime.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

The OP has been given a ton of great options, but there's no way they will ever get their $13 thrift store Tivo sans-subscription to do what they want.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> The OP has been given a ton of great options, but there's no way they will ever get their $13 thrift store Tivo sans-subscription to do what they want.


Judging by this

"I don't even want timed recording, I want press rec to record and stop to stop, FULLY MANUAL recording."

it wouldn't do what he wanted if it had PLS.

Of course if it did, he'd quickly find out what he was missing and come on over to the dark side.


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## rasmasyean (Jul 29, 2011)

I just got an HD Home Run Prime.

I think it works pretty good. I just got rid of my "Subscription TiVo". The only thing I would miss is the On Demand, which isn't available with a cablecard. But it's easily solved if you know what you would like to watch and just record a bunch of stuff. You can always upgrade a hard drive/get external ones, etc. too.

I like the WMC descriptions. I think they pull it from the internet somewhere and it's pretty detailed.

Theoretically, you can have a "portable DVR" by just buying a laptop that doubles as an actual computer. And if you want to watch Hulu and Youtube and web videos, you can't beat using a Windows computer vs. TiVoware or DVRware. Not to mention Gaming On Demand like OnLive and whatever is in the future.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

You might want to keep your eye on this new product announcement. Based on price-point of other Ceton devices I'm guessing around $599 for the 6-Tuner DVR.

Ceton previews multi-room DVR and Echo extender (hands-on)
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/10/ceton-announces-multi-room-dvr-and-echo-extender-hands-on/

The naming seems a bit odd though
TiVo is already using the name Q?
Dish is already using the name Echo, so is Rovi Passport Echo?


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

dstoffa said:


> Yun,
> 
> Good to hear from you, too! Happy New Year!
> 
> ...


Thanks Doug! Wow that's a lot of hoops to jump through, I think my parents will be perfectly happy with the new Tivo I got them. If that last 1/2 as long as the RTV I would pat myself on buying that Tivo. I haven't been in the hacking mode for a while. I realize cutting cable packages down saves a tons more $ than trying to keep an old DVR running. Buy not paying Comcast for digital package I can buy a new lifetime Tivo a year, with money left over to pay Netflix.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> The Retail Moxi is a dead platform and are no longer available new. I would stay away from the Moxi, it is only a matter of time before support and guide data are discontinued - IMO.
> 
> ..............


They have a final date now. Program guide and technical support for the Moxi HD DVR ends on December 31st, 2013.

http://www.moxi.com/us/


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I wonder if the Moxi fanclub will come back to TiVo and visit the TiVo Community once again. 

Competition is good, but it just goes to show how tough a market the home DVR market it.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

Ben321 said:


> Even worse, I don't even know if there ARE any "generic DVR" brands that simply behave as digital VCRs for recording what you want whenever you want with no restrictions or subscriptions. I used to hear about DVRs, but then TIVO came along and I just hear about TIVO and not about DVRs. So I'm guessing everyone went with the TIVO "fad", and the other DVR companies went bankrupt.
> THIS SUCKS!


You have that backwards. Tivo didn't come along after the generics. Tivo was first. There was never really a generics market. There was Tivo and Replay and then came DirecTV, Cable, Dish, Windows, Moxi, Channel Master, Homebrew, and others I am leaving out. They all came AFTER Tivo.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

seattlewendell said:


> You have that backwards. Tivo didn't come along after the generics. Tivo was first. There was never really a generics market. There was Tivo and Replay and then came DirecTV, Cable, Dish, Windows, Moxi, Channel Master, Homebrew, and others I am leaving out. They all came AFTER Tivo.


Well, TiVo and Replay were first and then everybody else, especially cable companies with the power to screw things up for third party hardware, and satellite companies who could have had a nice symbiotic relationship with TiVo, noticed that there was a bandwagon on which to climb aboard.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

you can use windows media center on your computer and a cable card adptor.



Ben321 said:


> I keep hearing about TIVO being so great. In fact TIVO has so much become synonymous with DVR I'm not even sure if there are other brands that still exist (lost customers to TIVO maybe?). So I picked up this used TIVO Series-2 down at Goodwill for only $13, BUT I find it's got a problem. The problem is while TIVO does have features that aren't part of what I would think of a normal DVR as being capable of (TV guide, recommended shows, etc) it doesn't even provide BASIC DVR service when operating under free mode! I would think paying unlocked the "extra" features, though while operating in "free" mode it would still have the normal DVR features (basically behaving as an ordinary VCR, except it's digital recording to a HDD instead of analog recording to a tape). However this is NOT the case! ALL DVR FEATURES ARE DISABLED when operating in free mode. This is worst business practice EVER. Best way to turn off customers. I certainly will NOT be paying money to such a greedy company.
> 
> Even worse, I don't even know if there ARE any "generic DVR" brands that simply behave as digital VCRs for recording what you want whenever you want with no restrictions or subscriptions. I used to hear about DVRs, but then TIVO came along and I just hear about TIVO and not about DVRs. So I'm guessing everyone went with the TIVO "fad", and the other DVR companies went bankrupt.
> 
> ...


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