# Alcatraz - OAD 1/16/12 - Lost 2.0?



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Hmmmm, a clanging cell door (Lost's airplane noise?) between time-shifted scenes?

Is it me, or are they trying to recreate the mysticism of Lost?

I'm trying to stop doing this or there will be disappointment.

I wasn't surprised at the ending of the second part at all. However, there's enough intrigue to keep me watching.


Thoughts?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, definitely Lost-Lite (or Lost for Dummies). A newspaper critic said basically that it wants to be like Lost, but without taking any chances...which kinda misses the point. The phrase "sparkless blah" came up in reference to both Alcatraz and Terra Nova, which seems apt...two shows that want to be cutting edge but don't have the guts.

And why _would_ you be surprised at the ending to the second part, which was an almost-exact rerun of the ending of the first part?

My favorite WtF moment was when they missed finding the sniper...because he set up _inside _the range they thought he had.

There was a fair amount of cool stuff, however, and I can hope that over time the cool stuff will win out and the stupid (and the sparkless blah) will fade away.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Undecided so I'll keep watching.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

The number 47 certainly got mentioned prominently and repeatedly.

I like the show, I think. I'll definitely give it a chance.

Question: When Jack was shot in the cemetery, where was he hit? Because in all of his subsequent scenes he seemed uninjured.


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## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

I liked it. Can't wait to see how the cop's grandfather storyline plays out. And that bartender uncle knows more than he's letting on too.


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## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

I liked it as well, definitely more interesting than Terra Nova.

The plus for us was having just been to SF and Alcatraz a year and a half ago.

-murray


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

How is this for a "Lost-ish" clue...

The boat to Alcatraz at the beginning was named "Warden Kelvin" - and at about 41 minutes in the second hour, during the sniper shooting scene "Kelvin Fish Cannery" (or something like that) was painted on the side of a building.

The Warden's character name was Edwin James, so if "Warden Kelvin" was a person, we haven't met them.

Overall, I will look forward to the next episode.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Satchel said:


> And that bartender uncle knows more than he's letting on too.


I agree about the uncle.

I liked it so far. Keeping the SP.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

I'm liking it so far, but I'm nervous about it being on FOX. They have a history of meddling with shows, plus cutting and running early.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

sonnik said:


> The boat to Alcatraz at the beginning was named "Warden Kelvin" - and at about 41 minutes in the second hour, during the sniper shooting scene "Kelvin Fish Cannery" (or something like that) was painted on the side of a building.
> 
> The Warden's character name was Edwin James, so if "Warden Kelvin" was a person, we haven't met them.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, definitely Lost-Lite (or Lost for Dummies). A newspaper critic said basically that it wants to be like Lost, but without taking any chances...which kinda misses the point. The phrase "sparkless blah" came up in reference to both Alcatraz and Terra Nova, which seems apt...two shows that want to be cutting edge but don't have the guts.
> 
> And why _would_ you be surprised at the ending to the second part, which was an almost-exact rerun of the ending of the first part?


Huh?
The ending of the second episode was the revelation that Lucy looked exactly the same in 1963 as she did in 2012.

This isn't Lost and people who came into this show expecting Lost need to adjust their expectations.

That said, I'm finding the show interesting and the cast is solid enough that I'm willing to ride this out for a while.

Although I do have to wonder about Sam Neil's Hauser.
Assuming that he was 18 years old in 1963, he'd have to be 68-69 now.
A little long in the tooth to be a Federal Bad ass, I think.



sonnik said:


> The boat to Alcatraz at the beginning was named "Warden Kelvin" - and at about 41 minutes in the second hour, during the sniper shooting scene "Kelvin Fish Cannery" (or something like that) was painted on the side of a building.
> 
> The Warden's character name was Edwin James, so if "Warden Kelvin" was a person, we haven't met them.


This may be of interest.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I like it a lot! And I thought Hurley....er.....Jorge was great!

And similarities to Lost are fine by me. Key #......8

Prisoner 2002..... Adds to 4

Prisoner 2024..... Adds to 8


What surprised me was that Greg Grunberg hasn't made a cameo yet. This is a JJ show after all.......


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

The first new network series in a long time that I've liked right out of the gate... sure there are some connections and parallels to Lost but not in a way I found annoying, plus you can find connections in a lot of shows of similar genre. Definitely didn't think it was blah, unlike Terra Nova which I stopped watching after just a few episodes.

I've been on an Alias kick lately and rewatching that series, so I appreciated the number 47 showing up as a callback to that show. Perhaps a Rambaldi device is behind the possible time travel going on here .


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Didn't really care for the leap at the end of ep 2 where they "knew" the sniper would be on one of two buildings. He could have been anywhere that was elevated - just as he was on a hilltop for the first shootings at the fair. And they knew WHEN to look for him as well (the time of day). But okay, enough to get me to watch one or two more and see where it goes.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Huh?
> The ending of the second episode was the revelation that Lucy looked exactly the same in 1963 as she did in 2012.


Oops, sorry. I was talking about the overall ending, which was the captured inmate being brought to Neo-Alcatraz and Sam Neil showing that he's a badass that knows more about what's going on than he's letting on.


JYoung said:


> This isn't Lost and people who came into this show expecting Lost need to adjust their expectations.


Then they really need to stop presenting it as Neo-Lost! 

I'm still interested. Just nowhere near as interested as I wanted to be.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

If you want people to think you are just not another lost re-tread then you need to remove yourself from all things lost. It was nice to hear the same music/sounds used in lost but after a while I just kept thinking this is just not as good as lost.


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

I thought Lost was idiotic, especially the way it ended. Glad to see this isn't trying to be a clone.

Not sure if I'm into it though.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Maybe Lost just left a bad taste with that poor ending, but I'd be thrilled if Alcatraz was easier for the casual viewer to follow. Most of what made Lost great had no relevance at its conclusion. Great ride (though difficult to entirely follow if one had a life), but I'd be happy if Alcatraz has a simplier arc with interesting episodes. 

So I have no issue so far and will continue watching.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

I like it.

There's an old quote from Roger Ebert called the Walsh/Stanton rule: "No movie featuring either Harry Dean Stanton or M. Emmet Walsh in a supporting role can be altogether bad."

I'm coining a new one: "No TV series staring Jorge Garcia can be altogether bad."

Lucy being revealed to be one of those who disappeared in 1963, but had already come back (perhaps the first to come back?) was sort of predictable, but still cool. I was thinking, up to that point, "How did they know to set up that command center under Alcatraz? How did they know the prisoners would be coming back?" Unless, someone who was not a criminal, someone friendly to law enforcement, came back _already_. That someone, was apparently Lucy.



danterner said:


> Question: When Jack was shot in the cemetery, where was he hit? Because in all of his subsequent scenes he seemed uninjured.


Looked to me like the leg, based on his reaction to the shot. Flesh wound in the leg might heal sufficiently for him to appear uninjured pretty quickly. They'd always go for a non-life threatening injury since they definitely want them alive.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

didn't like it (but the wife did). Sam Neil was just a little too stereotypical as the fed guy who keeps secrets. And the female cop just figures things out a little too easily for me - finding the hill, the spot, and then the bullet casing was just too stupid..

I don't know why, but it makes me miss Terriers..


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

The thing that is annoying me is they appear to be setting this up as:

Hurley and partner = good
FBI guy and coma girl = supposed to be good, probably bad
Alcatraz prisoners = supposed to be bad, probably 99% bad with one good guy.
Alcatraz guards = supposed to be good, probably 99% bad with one good guy.

I'm interested at this point, SP stays.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

SeanC said:


> Alcatraz guards = supposed to be good, probably 99% bad with one good guy.


I was thinking as I watched that I was looking forward to the first episode that featured a guard coming back. I'll bet they make most of the guards to be as bad (and as dangerous to society) as the criminals.

There's also plenty of foreshadowing that Jack Sylvane, while a badass who's already killed several people, will be invaluable to the "good guys" in a number of ways.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

This show is actually better than I thought it would be - so far, it has just the right touch of TV detective show and flashback to the past. I'll even forgive a few inconsistencies with the past - for example, in 1960, the Bay Bridge's cables did not have lights (that's a relatively new thing; it appeared that they remembered to remove the Transamerica Pyramid).



ADG said:


> Didn't really care for the leap at the end of ep 2 where they "knew" the sniper would be on one of two buildings. He could have been anywhere that was elevated - just as he was on a hilltop for the first shootings at the fair. And they knew WHEN to look for him as well (the time of day). But okay, enough to get me to watch one or two more and see where it goes.


Also, for some reason, he chose the buildings for his third hit, instead of either of his first two.



danterner said:


> The number 47 certainly got mentioned prominently and repeatedly.


Was it in both episodes, or just the second one ("47 slats in the picket fence" - they never did reveal what that meant, either)?



sonnik said:


> The Warden's character name was Edwin James, so if "Warden Kelvin" was a person, we haven't met them.


I assume it's somebody who died years before 1960, and they just honored him by naming one of the boats after him (and throwing in a nod and a wink to _Lost_ fans while they were at it).


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

sonnik said:


> How is this for a "Lost-ish" clue...
> 
> The boat to Alcatraz at the beginning was named "Warden Kelvin" - and at about 41 minutes in the second hour, during the sniper shooting scene "Kelvin Fish Cannery" (or something like that) was painted on the side of a building.





JYoung said:


> This may be of interest.


Good catch. I also remembered that in _Lost_, Desmond was waiting for Kelvin to arrive - then I started wondering if it was a J.J. Abrams thing; I had forgotten about the ST reference.

Regardless if they're trying to draw upon Lost likability or not, it's still a decent show on its own.

I wouldn't say the production team is trying to cram "Lost" down anyone's throat.

Not everything from "Bad Robot" must be like Lost, but I think that that _style_ of show, with these mysterious storytelling devices, is handled best by this team - so I think it's fair to expect a little of those comparisons.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I didn't think of Lost at all while watching this. Even while Hurly was onscreen. To me this has a totally different feel and pacing than Lost. 

That said I barely liked it well enough to avoid deleting my SP.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

I DVRed it and will watch it later.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> This show is actually better than I thought it would be - so far, it has just the right touch of TV detective show and flashback to the past. I'll even forgive a few inconsistencies with the past - for example, in 1960, the Bay Bridge's cables did not have lights (that's a relatively new thing; it appeared that they remembered to remove the Transamerica Pyramid).


The gun that Jack Sylvane retrieved from a locker was in a molded plastic case of a type that didn't exist before circa 1980. That could be an accidental anachronism or it could be a clue. He had a key to the locker as well.

I'm confused by this scene. Was the stuff in that locker supposed to have been there since 1963 or was it left there more recently than that by whatever intelligence is bringing the people back?

Was this clearly indicated or are we supposed to not know yet?


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## Cragmyre (Mar 8, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> The gun that Jack Sylvane retrieved from a locker was in a molded plastic case of a type that didn't exist before circa 1980. That could be an accidental anachronism or it could be a clue. He had a key to the locker as well.
> 
> I'm confused by this scene. Was the stuff in that locker supposed to have been there since 1963 or was it left there more recently than that by whatever intelligence is bringing the people back?
> 
> Was this clearly indicated or are we supposed to not know yet?


He also had a ticket to the ferry. Seems like stuff was somehow planted on him so he could do as he needed/requested.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> The gun that Jack Sylvane retrieved from a locker was in a molded plastic case of a type that didn't exist before circa 1980. That could be an accidental anachronism or it could be a clue. He had a key to the locker as well.
> 
> I'm confused by this scene. Was the stuff in that locker supposed to have been there since 1963 or was it left there more recently than that by whatever intelligence is bringing the people back?
> 
> Was this clearly indicated or are we supposed to not know yet?


The guy he killed with that gun was not one of the 'revenge' killings. It was stated that there was no connection between the two, so I concluded that he was brought back for a 'hit' and the revenge killings were a bonus. Therefore, the gun would have been a modern one placed there by whomever is responsible for bringing these people back.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Cragmyre said:


> He also had a ticket to the ferry. Seems like stuff was somehow planted on him so he could do as he needed/requested.


When I saw that he had the ticket (and what appeared to be "modern" money), I was a little confused. I just assumed he had picked somebody's pocket (he had bumped into somebody just before that point).


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

It was better than I expected, though the actual detective work part of it was awful.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> When I saw that he had the ticket (and what appeared to be "modern" money), I was a little confused. I just assumed he had picked somebody's pocket (he had bumped into somebody just before that point).


See my comment about the gun above. Explains a lot, I think, and also accounts for the sniper guy's pre-paid debit card used to buy the rifle.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Cragmyre said:


> He also had a ticket to the ferry. Seems like stuff was somehow planted on him so he could do as he needed/requested.


This. When he reached into his pocked and found the ferry ticket (and money and locker key), he had a brief look of surprise on his face. I assumed that it was all planted on him. He didn't know the gun was in the locker until he opened it. The gun looked like a very modern sidearm; I'm assuming that was an intentional decision by the show's creators to make it obvious that it wasn't a 1963 gun that had been in there the whole time.

A couple things I didn't understand. I think they they fully explained it, or I missed it...

That house he went into where he had the guy open the safe then took the key then shot the guy... who was that guy? And he was "told" he had kill? How was he told? Was it just a note along with the other stuff in his pocket?

I was also bugged by how cold blooded he was about the killings. We were told that he was sent to prison for robbing a grocery store. The only reason he was convicted on a federal felony was because the store was also classified as a post office since it sold stamps. I interpreted that to mean he wasn't necessarily a violent criminal; just probably some guy who made a bad decision in holding up a store one night. But now he's running around killing *everbody* in cold blood? Didn't jive, imo.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Speaking of blood, that is one thing I do really enjoy about the show, accurately portrayed violence.

I was very surprised that they had the blood level and depicted actual deaths for a show that started at 8pm.

Not that I'm a crazed bloodthirsty TV viewer, I just hate A-Team style action sequences. Bravo for boldly mowing people down.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> The guy he killed with that gun was not one of the 'revenge' killings. It was stated that there was no connection between the two, so I concluded that he was brought back for a 'hit' and the revenge killings were a bonus. Therefore, the gun would have been a modern one placed there by whomever is responsible for bringing these people back.


I agree that the money and the ticket were placed in his pocket by design by whoever is behind all this.

So, yeah-you-rite, it logically follows that they also placed the key to that locker in his pocket (along with the ticket and money) as well as placed the gun and clothes in the locker and communicated to him in some way what to do with the locker key, who to kill with the gun, and what to take from him (another key).

Come to think of it, the locker contained clothes. Those clothes were not obviously either 1963 or present day in their style (they, style wise, could have been from either era), but had they not been placed there fairly recently, they'd be moldy and rotten (meaning, they definitely hadn't been in the locker since 1963).

This means, of course, that Jack knows more than he's telling.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> I was also bugged by how cold blooded he was about the killings. We were told that he was sent to prison for robbing a grocery store. The only reason he was convicted on a federal felony was because the store was also classified as a post office since it sold stamps. I interpreted that to mean he wasn't necessarily a violent criminal; just probably some guy who made a bad decision in holding up a store one night. But now he's running around killing *everbody* in cold blood? Didn't jive, imo.


I agree. He was not a violent criminal. They said he was moved from Leavenworth to Alcatraz because he killed a fellow inmate in Leavenworth. However, there was clear inference that the killing in Leavenworth was self defense. Furthermore, the flashbacks of him in 1960 suggest that his nature is not particularly violent. Like you said, not a violent sociopath, but a guy who made a bad mistake, with some really nasty coincidences attached.

He also seemed unwilling to kill Rebecca. Instead, he begged her to kill *him.*

That last thing, him begging Rebecca to kill him, suggests also, that he knows at least something about what's going on, and he knows it will be unpleasant enough for him that he prefers to die instead.

His killing of the sadistic guard might be understandable even in the context of a non-violent nature. The guy did torture him mercilessly, apparently out of pure sadism, and not for any legitimate reason.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I'm not sure he does know more than he's telling. My theory is that the people responsible for keeping them alive (and ageless) for nearly 50 years have also brainwashed them to perform the tasks set for them, so they may not actually know any more than that apart from their own thoughts from 1963.

Cobb would not have known about pre-paid debit cards in '63, but was able to use one to buy the rifle with no apparent problems.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> I'm not sure he does know more than he's telling. My theory is that the people responsible for keeping them alive (and ageless) for nearly 50 years have also brainwashed them to perform the tasks set for them, so they may not actually know any more than that apart from their own thoughts from 1963.
> 
> Cobb would not have known about pre-paid debit cards in '63, but was able to use one to buy the rifle with no apparent problems.


So, you're suggesting that rather than giving the prisoners who come back "instructions" (be they verbal, written, or whatever), the people behind all this are simply, in effect "programming their brains" to instinctively/compulsively carry out their wishes?

That's an interesting idea... Makes me go "hmmm".

I had also thought about the debit card, but teaching him what it was and how to use it could have been handled by either written or verbal instructions, or by the brainwashing you suggest.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I thought brainwashing of sorts from the get go. Jack just seemed to "Drone" like and didn't really know what he was doing half the time.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Peter000 said:


> I didn't think of Lost at all while watching this. Even while Hurly was onscreen. To me this has a totally different feel and pacing than Lost.


I felt the same way. The only thing I felt was similar was the fact that it had flashbacks. But even the feel of the flashbacks was different to me.



Jeeters said:


> I was also bugged by how cold blooded he was about the killings. We were told that he was sent to prison for robbing a grocery store. The only reason he was convicted on a federal felony was because the store was also classified as a post office since it sold stamps. I interpreted that to mean he wasn't necessarily a violent criminal; just probably some guy who made a bad decision in holding up a store one night. But now he's running around killing *everbody* in cold blood? Didn't jive, imo.


When I thought he was just going to be a single-episode character, I wrote this off as everything that happened to him in prison (his treatment by the guards, his wife leaving him, etc.) pushed him over the edge.

But since he's still in the show, I'm hoping they will eventually flesh out more of the events that took place between his waking up and killing the second guy as they find out more about what's going on.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My favorite WtF moment was when they missed finding the sniper...because he set up _inside _the range they thought he had.


I don't think they missed the sniper's spot; they were still looking. It's just that limiting the range narrowed down the list of possible spots to one small area, so Rebecca and Diego got there first.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Just from a for fun lost-like activity I put Warden Kelvin into an anagram server. Two interesting results that likely mean absolutely nothing are (my capitalization and punctuation added for effect):

New Rank: Devil
RE: Van Winkled


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Crap! Missed it


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> Was it in both episodes, or just the second one ("47 slats in the picket fence" - they never did reveal what that meant, either)?


I only noticed it in the 2nd episode.

I'll be looking forward to this show each week. :up:


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

That's true ... she also made sure to mention the address of the house contained "47".


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Maui said:


> Crap! Missed it


When I was setting up the recording, my guide data showed the airing of the pilot was going to be repeated on Saturday @ 11PM.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Where is the Greg Grunberg cameo. There HAS to be one..........


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

JYoung said:


> Although I do have to wonder about Sam Neil's Hauser.
> Assuming that he was 18 years old in 1963, he'd have to be 68-69 now.
> A little long in the tooth to be a Federal Bad ass, I think.


Occam's Razor: he's not a Federal badass, that's a front. He's an ordinary human working for another faction of time travelers, headed by Lucy.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Cobb would not have known about pre-paid debit cards in '63, but was able to use one to buy the rifle with no apparent problems.


Cobb would also not have known how to recognize modern video cameras so as to conspicuously show off his room key.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> When I was setting up the recording, my guide data showed the airing of the pilot was going to be repeated on Saturday @ 11PM.


I hope my loval affiliate does the same. I will program it as sson as I get home


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

tivogurl said:


> Occam's Razor: he's not a Federal badass, that's a front. He's an ordinary human working for another faction of time travelers, headed by Lucy.


I have no doubt that he's a Federal employee. "Badass" is a matter of opinion. 

They made clear that he _was_ the young, rookie guard, who along with his more senior partner, first discovered Alcatraz mysteriously empty.

Obviously, there's a group of Federal government types who have always known the "truth" about the disappearance. It stands to reason they would have a secret group, who were "in the know" to various degrees, investigating the mystery. It would make sense for one of the people who first discovered the mystery to be part of that investigatory group.

So, he's 70ish. Lots of people are still quite vital and active at that age.

I do, however, think he is well aware of Lucy's time traveling nature. And I don't think his extreme concern that she might die is only because of his affection for her or closeness to her (although, that's part of it). She's clearly vitally important (since she's obviously traveled through time, like the inmates), and losing her would surely be an incalculable setback.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I'm not sure that it's time travel yet. One of my theories involves suspended animation of some kind, hence the drawing of so much blood and the memory lapses. That would be a possible explanation of the lack of aging.

There didn't, however, appear to be a reason for Cobb's reappearance. He continued to kill people in the same manor as he did back before he was imprisoned. Unless, of course, it turns out later that one of his victims was, in fact, associated with the whole bigger picture and this was a way to cover it up.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

Jeeters said:


> When I was setting up the recording, my guide data showed the airing of the pilot was going to be repeated on Saturday @ 11PM.


I missed it too  and was hoping to find re-air info here. Thanks!


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

tivogurl said:


> Occam's Razor: he's not a Federal badass, that's a front. He's an ordinary human working for another faction of time travelers, headed by Lucy.


If that's Occam's Razor then it must be one of those quadruple-bladed razors with an aloe strip... Maybe he just looks young for his age.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> I'm not sure that it's time travel yet. One of my theories involves suspended animation of some kind, hence the drawing of so much blood and the memory lapses. That would be a possible explanation of the lack of aging.
> 
> There didn't, however, appear to be a reason for Cobb's reappearance. He continued to kill people in the same manor as he did back before he was imprisoned. Unless, of course, it turns out later that one of his victims was, in fact, associated with the whole bigger picture and this was a way to cover it up.


I was thinking suspended animation also.

Re: Cobb... Obviously his "assignment" from the powers-that-be was to shoot Lucy, she being from his era and important to the good guys.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Couple of things I was curious about. Why build build a 21st century nerve center under a crumbling, 80 year old prison, with iffy power, hundreds of tourists trampling overhead all day and you have to take a boat to work? (Unless you live on the island).

And then build NuAlcatraz deep in the woods (of Vancouver, BC?) So Dr. Beckett can make a guest appearance?


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I am liking this show. This show seems to have more promise than Lost in the aspect that it hopefully won't just meander around with the plot for a few years. There are a finite number of guards and prisoners, and there is someone with some sort of agenda sending these prisoners back out.

I am guessing that it is some sort of time travel thing. Where the prisoners have to go out and tie up unfinished business to bring parallel time lines together or something.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Guess I need to change my pin. Its the same# as the one to open the secret jail.lol


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Sam Neill is 64 so it's not that far off. We will have to question it if they have him swim from alcatraz for the mainland or something.


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## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

Instead of time travel or suspended animation, what about clones? They all had lots of blood taken (DNA) and at least Jack had a death certificate and a funeral, suggesting there was an old version of him at some point.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Jagman_sl said:


> Instead of time travel or suspended animation, what about clones? They all had lots of blood taken (DNA) and at least Jack had a death certificate and a funeral, suggesting there was an old version of him at some point.


What happened to everyone at the rock to start with though?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

But clones wouldn't necessarily have the same criminal mentality that seems to be a reason these folks were 'chosen' ?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> What happened to everyone at the rock to start with though?


Purgatory?


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## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> What happened to everyone at the rock to start with though?


Taken to the lab? And as for the criminal mentality, it's clear someone is manipulating them, could they have been programmed from the beginning? There was a scene of Jack being interrogated where he claimed to not know any answers about the things he did, and the tech confirmed that he was telling the truth.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Jagman_sl said:


> Instead of time travel or suspended animation, what about clones? They all had lots of blood taken (DNA) and at least Jack had a death certificate and a funeral, suggesting there was an old version of him at some point.


It was stated categorically that that never happened.


----------



## IDSmoker (Apr 11, 2004)

They made a point of having a scene where the Doc & the Cop discuss the fact that Alcatraz had a residential section where the families of the guards lived (and took a boat to school each day... much cooler than a bus!  ).

Then in the command center they showed a room with pics of all the missing inmates on one side and pics of all the missing guards on another.

So what about the families of the missing guards? 

Are those family members missing as well, or did they ever mention that the families had stopped living on the island prior to the disappearance? And in the latter case, what do those families think happened to their loved ones? It's harder to disappear a prison guard than it is to disappear a prisoner... even in the 60s!


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

IDSmoker said:


> They made a point of having a scene where the Doc & the Cop discuss the fact that Alcatraz had a residential section where the families of the guards lived (and took a boat to school each day... much cooler than a bus!  ).
> 
> Then in the command center they showed a room with pics of all the missing inmates on one side and pics of all the missing guards on another.
> 
> ...


It would be easier to keep the whole thing secret if the families disappeared too. (Fewer questions being asked _by family members_.)

However, that brings up a major plot problem (regardless what the answer is). What about *extended* families. If all those prisoners and guards (with or without their immediate families) disappeared, and the government wanted the official story to be that they were simply transferred, seems like you'd have an awful lot of grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousin's etc. wondering why they had completely lost touch with them.


----------



## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> I thought brainwashing of sorts from the get go. Jack just seemed to "Drone" like and didn't really know what he was doing half the time.


I disagree. If he was simply brainwashed, he would not have sought out the warden for killing and his brother for marrying his wife. He would have only killed the guy with the safe.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> I have no doubt that he's a Federal employee. "Badass" is a matter of opinion.
> 
> They made clear that he _was_ the young, rookie guard, who along with his more senior partner, first discovered Alcatraz mysteriously empty.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's TV but at 70ish, I don't think he's going to be charging up to building roofs and engaging in gun battles.
In the scheme of things, it's not a big thing to me but I automatically did the age calculation when it was revealed that he was the second guard in 1963.



RGM1138 said:


> Couple of things I was curious about. Why build build a 21st century nerve center under a crumbling, 80 year old prison, with iffy power, hundreds of tourists trampling overhead all day and you have to take a boat to work? (Unless you live on the island).
> 
> And then build NuAlcatraz deep in the woods (of Vancouver, BC?) So Dr. Beckett can make a guest appearance?


To have access to the prisoner's cells of course.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure the new "prison" is in British Columbia and not Endor.

The pilot was obviously shot in San Francisco but it does look like production was moved to Vancouver for cost reasons.

Alcatraz scored a 3.3 in 18-49 last night so it's probably going to be around for a bit.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I didn't get the feeling they were brainwashed. Blackmailed perhaps, or otherwise compelled to act, but not as mindless drones.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> Yes, it's TV but at 70ish, I don't think he's going to be charging up to building roofs and engaging in gun battles.


Better be careful, or Clint Eastwood will beat the crap out of you.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Better be careful, or Clint Eastwood will beat the crap out of you.


That's exactly who I was thinking of.

My dad is 75, I'm 50, and he can probably still beat me in a foot race. He always could. He's just genetically a very fast runner. Genetics that I obviously didn't manage to inherit.

So, some 70 somethings are still pretty spry. I don't have issues with the character being 70ish and still being a badass.

However, from what we've seen so far, he's not so much a physical badass. We haven't seen him run down a younger person or beat anybody up. He's more a psychological badass. Tenacious and determined. Age has nothing to do with that.


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Ok, took me awhile, but I just finished it. I never got into lost, and would be happy if that word is never uttered again in this thread, but I guess comparisons will abound.

So many questions, like others have had, about the family members etc... I guess in time they will be answered. 

Jorge is really playing this part well. I feel like he doesn't belong, and he does too, but that makes his character work.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Better be careful, or Clint Eastwood will beat the crap out of you.


Yeah, but he's Clint Eastwood.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Chuck Norris is 71. Stupid internet memes notwithstanding, I wouldn't want to scuffle with him.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I didn't think it was Lost quality. More like Prison Break quality. I also thought Detective Madsen was way to young to have her level of experience and knowledge. I know they explained it by saying she helped her father solve cases when she was a toddler or something like that but still... I love looking at her though. 

The FOX site lists Sons Of Anarchy as one of Sarah Jones' previous credits. Who was she on SOA? Wikipedia is on strike today so I can't look it up there.

Never mind. I looked her up using the rest of the internet and found out that she played Polly Zobelle on SOA. I liked looking at her in that role too.


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I looked her up using the rest of the internet and found out that she played Polly Zobelle on SOA. I liked looking at her in that role too.


Yes indeed. I knew I'd seen her before, and couldn't place where.

I never watched Lost. Don't care about Lost. We enjoyed this show, and I am trying to enjoy thinking about it without over-thinking it. Maybe I should avoid these threads.


----------



## RandomTask (Jun 30, 2011)

goMO said:


> didn't like it (but the wife did). Sam Neil was just a little too stereotypical as the fed guy who keeps secrets. And the female cop just figures things out a little too easily for me - finding the hill, the spot, and then* the bullet casing was just too stupid.*.
> 
> I don't know why, but it makes me miss Terriers..


Smart cop who picks up evidence with her bare hands, then gives it to Doc so they can completely mess up any residue evidence or fingerprints...... Come on, let pay attention to the details people.

Liked the reveal in part two.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Satchel said:


> I disagree. If he was simply brainwashed, he would not have sought out the warden for killing and his brother for marrying his wife. He would have only killed the guy with the safe.


Cover, just like the sniper guy killing 3 w/ 1 being the real target.


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## RandomTask (Jun 30, 2011)

Cragmyre said:


> He also had a ticket to the ferry. Seems like stuff was somehow planted on him so he could do as he needed/requested.


Why does anyone need a ticket to leave the Island?...... FWIW, I have been there recently and no one cares if you have a ticket to leave. You have to have a ticket to get there in the first place.


----------



## RandomTask (Jun 30, 2011)

danterner said:


> If that's Occam's Razor then it must be one of those quadruple-bladed razors with an aloe strip... Maybe he just looks young for his age.


He will be 65 this year IRL.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

sonnik said:


> How is this for a "Lost-ish" clue...
> 
> The boat to Alcatraz at the beginning was named "Warden Kelvin"


That and the 47s aren't Lostish, they're J.J. Abramsish. He slips those things into almost everything he does. The Kelvin bit is a reference to his... grandfather, I want to say? Some relative.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

RandomTask said:


> Why does anyone need a ticket to leave the Island?...... FWIW, I have been there recently and no one cares if you have a ticket to leave. You have to have a ticket to get there in the first place.


I've been on a number of tours that were on islands and the like. You get a ticket with two stubs: one stub they tear off when you go there, another they tear off when you return.

IIRC it's like this when you visit the Statue of Liberty.

I've always thought this was weird. What are they going to do if you don't have your return stub? Strand you on the island?

It's strange but a lot of tour management companies do this.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

What was the deal with shooting the ravens?


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> I've been on a number of tours that were on islands and the like. You get a ticket with two stubs: one stub they tear off when you go there, another they tear off when you return.
> 
> IIRC it's like this when you visit the Statue of Liberty.
> 
> ...


I wonder if they get in trouble if they have less tickets coming back than going there


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> What was the deal with shooting the ravens?


That's how he learned to shoot, shooting ravens or crows off of the 47 pickets of the fence


----------



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> I wonder if they get in trouble if they have less tickets coming back than going there


It's probably how they make sure that no-one is left on the island at the end of the day. The few who return without a ticket can be counted on top of the number of tickets handed in.

When you go ashore on a cruise, they swipe your card as you leave and again when you return. At the end of the stay, they know exactly who has not come back in time.


----------



## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

Hunter Green said:


> That and the 47s aren't Lostish, they're J.J. Abramsish. He slips those things into almost everything he does. The Kelvin bit is a reference to his... grandfather, I want to say? Some relative.


I had forgotten about "47" but just happened to read this last week from Cloverfield trivia:



> J.J. Abrams has used the number 47 extensively on past projects. In Alias it played great importance as a page on Rambaldi's manuscript, and as a recurring pointer to important motifs. It should come as no surprise that "Cloverfield" is the designation to the case of the images found on Area US-447. Also, in the scenes where they're taking the stairs up to the top of the skyscrapers to save Beth, one of the floor numbers filmed is the 47th.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I'm not sure how I feel about this show quite yet. I was attracted to it because of LOST and JJ Abrams. I love a good mystery. On the one hand, it's a compelling storyline to unravel the mystery of why all this is happening. On the other hand, I'm getting the impression that each week we'll see a different inmate being rounded up and thrown in the new cell block. Until...what? The entire cell block is refilled with former convicts who haven't aged. And then...? I guess it's endgame by that time.

It seems like the formula might get old after a while. My biggest fear was/is, they'll adopt the LOST writing policy that the main characters never ask each other the obvious, important questions that will reveal too much to the viewer. However, it was refreshing to hear Jorge's character actually ask outright something to the effect of where these people have been, and why they haven't aged...and tongue in cheek saying he had his own "wormhole theory" (a nod to all the LOST theories, perhaps?). He didn't get an answer. But at least he asked.

Anyway, I'm giving it a chance and I'll stick with it. I was caught off guard by the reveal at the end of hour two. In hindsight, I should have seen that coming.

And now I have a new celebrity crush on Sarah Jones. Man is she cute. Must find more information...


----------



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

"Is anyone else's head exploding round about now?"


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I kind of think the lead is way too young to play this role. She looks like she could be a new Glee cast character instead of a detective.


----------



## moetown (Jan 25, 2006)

I will be sticking with it for now. Did any one notice there was a QR code on Jack's jail cell at the end of ep2? I was trying to see if I could get a read on it but couldn't. Need a high def screen capture to see what if anything it says.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Watched it last night. Liked it a lot.


----------



## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

In addition to the obvious Lost vibe, this show reminds me a little of "The 4400." Maybe the prisoners were taken by the future and are being sent back.


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> What was the deal with shooting the ravens?


He must have been a Steelers fan.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I also thought Detective Madsen was way to young to have her level of experience and knowledge. I know they explained it by saying she helped her father solve cases when she was a toddler or something like that but still... I love looking at her though.





robojerk said:


> I kind of think the lead is way too young to play this role. She looks like she could be a new Glee cast character instead of a detective.


Waaaay too young. Yeah, she's nice eye candy, but I think she's miscast. She's so young that I have trouble taking her seriously. No one that still has baby fat is handling problems like she is. They either need someone older, or someone not quite so "cutish". For example, the blonde who plays Emma on Once Upon a Time, she has that slightly older, little more street-tough look.

Still like the show though.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I'm also wondering if the answer isn't "cloning"...seeing them drawing Sylvane's blood, that's immediately entered my mind. But I'm not sure how that reconciles with memories. Their memories of how they arrived in the present day seem to be missing, as do perhaps some or all of their motives for doing what they are doing. Cloning might at least be a little less far fetched than time travel. Besides, we've done time travel. Based on what we've seen so far, especially at the end of the pilot...I'm assuming that Lucy and Emerson already have the answer(s) to HOW this is happening?


----------



## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Waaaay too young. Yeah, she's nice eye candy, but I think she's miscast. She's so young that I have trouble taking her seriously. No one that still has baby fat is handling problems like she is. They either need someone older, or someone not quite so "cutish". For example, the blonde who plays Emma on Once Upon a Time, she has that slightly older, little more street-tough look.
> 
> Still like the show though.


They should have gotten someone who looks a bit like Jennifer Morrison's older sister rather than her younger sister.


----------



## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Yeah, I've been thinking that the person playing the lead is way too wispy to be a SFPD detective. She may have mad skills and be a genius, but if she comes up against some 200lb. crazed killer, he will put her through the sidewalk. Gun or no. 

Might as well put Pee Wee Herman in charge.


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> I didn't think of Lost at all while watching this. Even while Hurly was onscreen. To me this has a totally different feel and pacing than Lost.
> 
> That said I barely liked it well enough to avoid deleting my SP.


Didn't think of _Lost_ at least a little?


----------



## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> ...I'm getting the impression that each week we'll see a different inmate being rounded up and thrown in the new cell block. Until...what? The entire cell block is refilled with former convicts who haven't aged. And then...? I guess it's endgame by that time.
> 
> It seems like the formula might get old after a while...


At least the guy from hour 2 saw the guy from hour 1, and acknowledged him. If it gets to be too populated, we will be in a situation where people start to wonder ... "Whatever happened to...?"

I'd imagine most of these first episodes (probably most of episode 1) - will be introducing us to new characters.

We'll probably meet "talksalot" soon so he can come back and drive the Sniper crazy.

I predict it's more like an X-files formula. Most episodes are one-off stories, but every now and then we'll learn more about the overall mystery of the "how did they disappear" question.


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> I didn't think it was Lost quality. More like Prison Break quality. I also thought Detective Madsen was way to young to have her level of experience and knowledge. I know they explained it by saying she helped her father solve cases when she was a toddler or something like that but still... I love looking at her though.


I have to agree... I was not blown away by this. I thought for three writers, the resulting pilot was borderline terrible. Then the second hour repeated the same exact formula with a new character. I'll keep it for now since Sam Neill and Sarah Jones are interesting to watch, but I really hope it expands from a "mystery San Francisco murderer of the week" sort of show.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Yes it looks like it is going to be "crook of the week" show.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Waldorf said:


> I had forgotten about "47" but just happened to read this last week from Cloverfield trivia:


There was one in Super 8 but I can't remember what it is right now.

With the inevitable _Lost_ comparisons I felt bad that one of Jorge's first lines including him saying something like "when I was on the island".


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I liked it. So far it's a fun mystery. But really, outside of the mysterious music which ws similar, and the one scene where they showed the outside of "new" Alcatraz looking eerily like the "cave" at the end of Lost where the mystical powers came from, I really didn't get much of a Lost vibe. It's not even the same writers, and the last two Abrams shows had NO Lost vibe at all. I think this is Fox's way of getting us Losties to watch. Is Abrams even involved in much of the day to day stuff? I know Jack Bender is involved...he had director credits here and on many Lost episodes, so maybe that's where the Lost vibe might come from. But I didn't feel it here. Oh, I should add, Jorge Gracia appears to be playing Hurley 2.0

Having been to Alcatraz in 2010, it was cool to have recognized many of the places they went. Sarah Jones IS fun to look at, I must say. I didn't really recognize Lucy, but the actress' name in the credits looked familiar until I realized it was Neela from ER (and from Bend it Like Beckham). She really got old looking.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

kettledrum said:


> He must have been a Steelers fan.


well played


----------



## IDSmoker (Apr 11, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Waaaay too young. Yeah, she's nice eye candy, but I think she's miscast. She's so young that I have trouble taking her seriously. No one that still has baby fat is handling problems like she is. They either need someone older, or someone not quite so "cutish". For example, the blonde who plays Emma on Once Upon a Time, she has that slightly older, little more street-tough look.


While I realize you were probably referring to the way character comes across, which I agree with... the 'baby fat' comment got me wondering how old the actress is. Turns out that Sarah Jones will turn *29 *this July! 

My only explanation is that the older I get, the harder it seems to get to determine the age of others, cause I would have sworn that the actress was 22 or 23 at the most! I even came across some photos of Ms. Jones from her prior work and thought that her being jail-bait for most of it explained why she seems to have never done a nude scene. Guess this means that she'll have to go onto my "Raquel Welch" list (of great looking ladies who refuse to get naked on-screen, at least while they are young).


----------



## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

Hunter Green said:


> There was one in Super 8 but I can't remember what it is right now.


In case it's bugging you, in the zombie movie-within-a-movie that Super 8s young filmmakers are working on, there is a reference to the mysterious Building 47.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

IDSmoker said:


> My only explanation is that the older I get, the harder it seems to get to determine the age of others, cause I would have sworn that the actress was 22 or 23 at the most!


I'm only 30, and I would have sworn the same thing. My lil sister is 23, the lead looks like she could be one of her school chumps.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I didn't think it was Lost quality. More like Prison Break quality. I also thought Detective Madsen was way to young to have her level of experience and knowledge. I know they explained it by saying she helped her father solve cases when she was a toddler or something like that but still... I love looking at her though.
> 
> *The FOX site lists Sons Of Anarchy as one of Sarah Jones' previous credits. Who was she on SOA? Wikipedia is on strike today so I can't look it up there.
> *
> Never mind. I looked her up using the rest of the internet and found out that she played Polly Zobelle on SOA. I liked looking at her in that role too.


Zobelle's daughter


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

So many things wrong with this show. Bad casting - the eye candy detective isn't credible, even by low TV standards. Plenty of hotties a few years older available. Worse yet is the really weak police procedurals. The one driving me bats was picking up evidence bare handed. If the show is about "detectives' tracking folks down as an integral part, don't be lazy and write that portion poorly. Contrast this hackarama with the Justified writing where they don't insult the viewer.

If this ends where everyone realizes they're really not here but in some alternative transitional afterlife, I'm giving up TV. Except of course for Patriots football.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Yeah, there are a number of things wrong with this show but as long as Det. Madsen keeps running down the street with her jacket open, I'll deal with it.


----------



## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> I realized it was Neela from ER (and from Bend it Like Beckham). She really got old looking.


She's not fat, but she has gained weight, very noticeably in her face. A common post-pregnancy affliction.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> ... but as long as Det. Madsen keeps running down the street with her jacket open, I'll deal with it.


My wife "She got some *huge jugs!*"


----------



## pudding7 (May 13, 2002)

jlb said:


> I like it a lot! And I thought Hurley....er.....Jorge was great!
> 
> And similarities to Lost are fine by me. Key #......8
> 
> ...


The only problem I have with all the hints and clues and number games and subtle references is that on Lost, none of it ever mattered. Nothing ever came of any of it.

What I mean is, (and I don't mean this to be snarky, just don't know how else to word it...) ok, so "Prisoner 2002..... Adds to 4" and "Prisoner 2024..... Adds to 8". But so what? What does it matter?


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

pudding7 said:


> The only problem I have with all the hints and clues and number games and subtle references is that on Lost, none of it ever mattered. Nothing ever came of any of it.
> 
> What I mean is, (and I don't mean this to be snarky, just don't know how else to word it...) ok, so "Prisoner 2002..... Adds to 4" and "Prisoner 2024..... Adds to 8". But so what? What does it matter?


I can't say I disagree. Remember all the Colverfield clues?
The scene when the three enter the motel, while still in the hallway, I remember seeing a number scribbled in black (looked to be same as the window) on the wall behind them.. It looked pretty obvious and wondered if it was supposed to be some more crazy clues.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Most of his shows have a significant ARG (alternate reality game) external component. You don't have to participate to follow the show, but participating adds an additional level of complexity. If you're seeing things in one of his shows that seems extraneous, it could be that it's tied to an ARG. He did it with LOST, Alias, Fringe, and I'll bet his other shows as well. The numbers in LOST, for example, were heavily explored and explained in the ARG.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

danterner said:


> The numbers in LOST, for example, were heavily explored and explained in the ARG.


I didn't follow the ARG. Can you summarize what they were about? Or point to somewhere where it's explained?

TIA


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

verdugan said:


> I didn't follow the ARG. Can you summarize what they were about? Or point to somewhere where it's explained?
> 
> TIA


I don't think people will be happy if we were to take this thread down the "LOST numbers rabbit hole" (or any rabbit hole other than the Alcatraz rabbit hole, which I hope we'll discover exists), but here's a link for you: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Numbers

You can also google for "Valenzetti Equation" and/or "The LOST Experience"


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Waldorf said:


> In case it's bugging you, in the zombie movie-within-a-movie that Super 8s young filmmakers are working on, there is a reference to the mysterious Building 47.


I remembered that one, it's the Kelvin one I can't recall off the top of my head.


----------



## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

astrohip said:


> Waaaay too young. Yeah, she's nice eye candy, but I think she's miscast. She's so young that I have trouble taking her seriously. No one that still has baby fat is handling problems like she is. They either need someone older, or someone not quite so "cutish". For example, the blonde who plays Emma on Once Upon a Time, she has that slightly older, little more street-tough look.
> 
> Still like the show though.





Waldorf said:


> They should have gotten someone who looks a bit like Jennifer Morrison's older sister rather than her younger sister.





RGM1138 said:


> Yeah, I've been thinking that the person playing the lead is way too wispy to be a SFPD detective. She may have mad skills and be a genius, but if she comes up against some 200lb. crazed killer, he will put her through the sidewalk. Gun or no.
> 
> Might as well put Pee Wee Herman in charge.


I just finished the second episode last night. Liked the show and if they keep coming up with new elements such as the Lucy reveal it will keep it from becoming a con of the week show.

They should have gotten Elizabeth Mitchell for the detective part.


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I thought the show was good enough to keep watching. We will see if I'm still watching in a month or two though.


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Hunter Green said:


> I remembered that one, it's the Kelvin one I can't recall off the top of my head.


Just watched Super 8 for the first time last night. Kelvin is the name of the gas station.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

ronsch said:


> They should have gotten Elizabeth Mitchell for the detective part.


+1 :up:


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

danterner said:


> I don't think people will be happy if we were to take this thread down the "LOST numbers rabbit hole" (or any rabbit hole other than the Alcatraz rabbit hole, which I hope we'll discover exists), but here's a link for you: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Numbers
> 
> You can also google for "Valenzetti Equation" and/or "The LOST Experience"


Thanks for the link.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

kettledrum said:


> Just watched Super 8 for the first time last night. Kelvin is the name of the gas station.


Kelvin Inman. Duh.

Greg


----------



## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

She is nice to look at but needs longer hair, and keep up the running. ;-)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DouglasPHill said:


> She is nice to look at but needs longer hair, and *keep up the running*. ;-)


Actually, she had that Hollywood syndrome of unathletic women playing athletic characters, and looking a little silly doing it.

Certainly made me appreciate Emmy Rossum in Shameless, who looked like a track star when she ran in the show recently. Not that she was hard to appreciate before...

Then again, you may not have been referring to her athleticism..?


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

DouglasPHill said:


> Yes it looks like it is going to be "crook of the week" show.


Agreed. And I like that.

I liked this a lot (just saw it last night) and it definitely felt like LOST to me in a lot of ways.

However...

1. Yeah, she's too young for the role
2. I can't quite tell if I think she's hot or just the nice bouncing boobs.
3. I can't quite tell if they're big boobs, or just bouncy boobs.
4. Picking up the shell casing with her hands was so, so, bad. C'mon writers, sheesh. You know they'll need to fingerprint that.
5. I like boobs
6. I'm puzzled how well these crooks seem to function in a society 50 years after what they're used to. I mean when the one bad guy started tweeting his facebook posts from his iPhone I was like "really?".


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I didn't get the impression that Hauser is particularly concerned with due process. And now that the detective lady is working for him, she isn't, either. Since they knew who the sniper was it was just a matter of catching him - they weren't concerned about preserving evidence/dusting for prints/etc -- it's not like there's going to be a trial.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

> I'm puzzled how well these crooks seem to function in a society 50 years after what they're used to. I mean when the one bad guy started tweeting his facebook posts from his iPhone I was like "really?".


Tweeting his Facebook posts?

Greg


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

gchance said:


> Tweeting his Facebook posts?
> 
> Greg


Whatever it is the kids do.


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## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

Took me a while then it finally clicked that Jack was "Charlie Jade".

Certainly looking like a '63-of-the-week format so far, but they are keeping the returnees handy at New-Alcatraz.

Definite Lost-like elements...displaced people, the good/bad natures being questionable, prior knowledge of the overall mystery and the lack of revealing it just to name a few.

The music screams out Lost...blatting horns or glissiing strings indicating a point to be made of a commercial break especially.

It's worth a watch for now, but rounding up hundreds of prisoners and guards one at a time? Someone is planning on a LONG run at that pace.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

RandomTask said:


> Smart cop who picks up evidence with her bare hands, then gives it to Doc so they can completely mess up any residue evidence or fingerprints...... Come on, let pay attention to the details people.
> 
> Liked the reveal in part two.


They KNOW who the shooter was. They do not intend to PROSECUTE him, as any investigation would indicate a) he's supposed to be 70ish, and likely dead.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The guy who played the sniper looked like he could have been Giovanni Ribisi's twin brother.


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## Gary McCoy (Jun 4, 2003)

*Lost* is not the series this most resembles. So far, I'm getting vibes of *The 4400* (USA Network, 2004-2007). That one did manage to limp along for 3 seasons because IMHO they did not focus on time travel as the basic plot device. (or the mystery plot device as it was in *Lost*.)

Relatively quickly, I want an explanation of how a former, seemingly unintelligent Alcatraz prison guard became the leader of a secret 'black" faction of the FBI that gets to ignore the Constitution and due process.

I'm really glad that Terry O'Quinn found employment on *Hawaii Five O*. I don't suppose there is any hope he won't be showing up as one of the "Sixty-Threes", however.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Gary McCoy said:


> *Lost* is not the series this most resembles. So far, I'm getting vibes of *The 4400* (USA Network, 2004-2007). That one did manage to limp along for 3 seasons because IMHO they did not focus on time travel as the basic plot device. (or the mystery plot device as it was in *Lost*.)
> 
> Relatively quickly, I want an explanation of how a former, seemingly unintelligent Alcatraz prison guard became the leader of a secret 'black" faction of the FBI that gets to ignore the Constitution and due process.


Didn't you see Men in Black? Where a once geeky farm boy gave flowers to an alien visitor and then became the top agent.

That's how it happens.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Anyone remember the short lived show on Fox a few years ago called "The Wedding Bells"? Same actress.


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## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

Gary McCoy said:


> *Lost* is not the series this most resembles. So far, I'm getting vibes of *The 4400* (USA Network, 2004-2007).


You've got that right...returned unaged people with some mission. MUCH more a 4400 plot point.

That said, I'll stand hard by my music gripes


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I can see it being a new prisoner and/or guard until the new Alcatraz is full. That will be tedious.

How about leaving all the personal effects and records behind one door just off the tourist area? Then the super sekrit guy has to gas them because they found it? THEN he reveals the whole secret to these random civilians and asks if they want to help. 

He needs the historian? He can't read the guy's book or do the same research in 50 years? 

Sam Neil's standard MO body language has him walking and looking sideways with his tilted and leading. It's getting on my nerves.

Don' cha think that the SFPD is going to have to answer to the press and public about how they're doing in tracking down the murderer and the sniper? "Ho hum. He stopped killing," isn't gonna cut it.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Alca----huh??

Apparently, our local affiliate lost the signal (really, guys? Fox Studios is Right. Down. The. Street.) right at the beginning, so after some frantic station promos we cut to a guy who seems to be extremely confused to be in Alcatraz Nat'l Park in the modern day who seems to be afraid he's going to be "caught" escaping the prison. 

Um....can someone summarize the opening?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Gary McCoy said:


> *Lost* is not the series this most resembles. So far, I'm getting vibes of *The 4400* (USA Network, 2004-2007).


Hey, that's what I said!


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Polcamilla said:


> Um....can someone summarize the opening?


It starts on a rainy night in 1963.  A boat arrives at Alcatraz carrying two police officers (one, we find out later, is a young Emerson Hauser). They find the island deserted, everyone gone.

Cut to present day Alcatraz, with tours going in and out. A little girl wanders into a "staff only" area and finds a man (Jack) in one of the cells. The tour guide tells him "no sleeping in here" and he stumbles out, clearly disorientated.

That was about it.


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## rondotcom (Feb 13, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> Purgatory?


For the las time it's NOT purgatory. It's just a place they constructed so they could wait until all of them could ... oops... sorry wrong show.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Jagman_sl said:


> Instead of time travel or suspended animation, what about clones? They all had lots of blood taken (DNA) and at least Jack had a death certificate and a funeral, suggesting there was an old version of him at some point.


A clone's fingerprints wouldn't be the same. They form in utero and are shaped by the movement of the amniotic fluid.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Polcamilla said:


> A clone's fingerprints wouldn't be the same. They form in utero and are shaped by the movement of the amniotic fluid.


Cool. I learned something today!


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Polcamilla said:


> A clone's fingerprints wouldn't be the same. They form in utero and are shaped by the movement of the amniotic fluid.


This can be seen in real life. Identical twins don't have identical fingerprints. They are very similar in the general patterns, but are distinguishable.

...so if you plan to murder someone and blame it on your identical twin, you don't need to worry about DNA evidence, but make sure you wear gloves.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I had managed not to record this the first night it was on. Ended up downloading it from Amazon because Faux screwed up the repeat broadcast massively. They showed a video of music from Big Bang Theory and some other mysterious crap. The episode started on the ferrry. 
I enjoyed the show, the sucker I am, and will follow it until the crappy ending like 4400 and Lost.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

justen_m said:


> ...so if you plan to murder someone and blame it on your identical twin, you don't need to worry about DNA evidence, but make sure you wear gloves.


Unless you are a Chimera. At least according to an old CSI.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Do you guys remember Geronimo Jack's Beard, the podcast that Jorge Garcia and his girlfriend, Bethany Shady had during Lost's final season?

They're back... this time, with Diego's Soul Patch. 










Greg


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Nice - I was just thinking about GJB the other day and wondering whether he'd be back with a new podcast.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

windracer said:


> It starts on a rainy night in 1963.  A boat arrives at Alcatraz carrying two police officers (one, we find out later, is a young Emerson Hauser). They find the island deserted, everyone gone.
> 
> Cut to present day Alcatraz, with tours going in and out. A little girl wanders into a "staff only" area and finds a man (Jack) in one of the cells. The tour guide tells him "no sleeping in here" and he stumbles out, clearly disorientated.
> 
> That was about it.


Thank you!

Since we picked this up with our "Pilot" wishlist, we apparently also missed the second hour. I was pretty underwhelmed by the first hour, though....by the end, the only one I found sympathetic was Hurley.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

rondotcom said:


> For the las time it's NOT purgatory. It's just a place they constructed so they could wait until all of them could ... oops... sorry wrong show.


Is that how LOST ended? So what did the first ones do while they waited? Did they have an Xbox or something?


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

I liked it, but the only thought in my head the whole two hours was "Jodie Foster". Just like watching Kate Mulgrew on Star Trek Voyager, all I could think was "Katharine Hepburn".

I never watched Lost (except the last episode), but I heard enough about it over the run of the show. I definitely felt a Lost "vibe" to Alcatraz, and I really didn't mind it. Plus I enjoy the extra tidbits and recurring themes. I hope they aren't all Lost-based, since I'm sure there are lots of viewers new to JJ Abrams who won't get them.

I visited Alcatraz before the last Death March, and it was fun to see some real locations on TV. Before the shooter went to meet the warden, they opened a really narrow door and I thought "That's the annoying super-narrow door leading down to the rec area." and sure enough it was.

I don't like Neill's character at all... condescending ******bag. Why didn't the sniper get HIM so I could have him in a coma for a few eps? 

They got me on the reveal at the end of Ep 2... I figured it out at the last second before the reveal (like I did with Sixth Sense when you find out Rosebud is the sled), but I wasn't even considering it before that. That's when MY head exploded.


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## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

Polcamilla said:


> A clone's fingerprints wouldn't be the same. They form in utero and are shaped by the movement of the amniotic fluid.


Sure. _Real_ clones. I'm thinking of _Hollywood_ clones here!


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

RandomTask said:


> Come on, let pay attention to the details people.


Yes, let's.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> I'm coining a new one: "No TV series staring Jorge Garcia can be altogether bad."


I agree with you... However, the season of "Becker" with Jorge Garcia WAS bad. The seasons BEFORE him were great, though.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread yet. I watched the first 3 episodes over the weekend. (Even though I didn't think it was "great", it got me to keep watching..)

Where is this actually filmed? It sure doesn't seem like SF.. I'm a South Bay person, but:

* It seemed like they had a big "suburbia style" grocery store with a big parking lot in SF in one of the episodes. I know there's one Safeway in SF, but even it doesn't have as big or expansive a parking lot as they do in suburbia.

* Some kind of weird fishing lake near Walnut Creek surrounded by forest with huge trees?!?!? [They could have just gone fishing in the ocean and plotwise had the same effect.]

Both of those seem totally out of place for Northern CA.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

The series is shot in Vancouver.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

No thread for last night's episode? Is interest in this show waning that fast?


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Didn't get to watch last night. Have it on the list for tonight's viewing, but I'm surprised no-one else started one.


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## jacobp (Oct 8, 2001)

After last night's episode, I deleted my SP. Too bad, I was really looking forward to liking this show. But the characters are wholly unbelievable, unlikeable and the plot is ridiculous: so a bunch of the most vile criminals known to mankind disappeared but not they start to reappear, and the US Government has one middle age guy in a suit and a lab assistant as the only law enforcement on the case??? And now they get lucky and add a single cop and an obese comic book fan. Laughable.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

It could happen.


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