# Make picture window overscan friendly



## KingsFan6 (Jan 1, 2016)

So here's the thing. I use overscan on my Samsung TV. I could use "screen fit", or one-to-one pixel mapping, but I'm turned off by the unclean edges on many of the HD channels. So the problem is that TiVo puts the picture window in TiVo Central and the Guide in the extreme top right corner, so when I have overscan on, portions of the top and right ends of the window are cropped. It would be better to have the window offset somewhat from the extreme corner so that TVs with overscan on can get the entire window to be visible.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

KingsFan6 said:


> So here's the thing. I use overscan on my Samsung TV. I could use "screen fit", or one-to-one pixel mapping, but I'm turned off by the unclean edges on many of the HD channels. So the problem is that TiVo puts the picture window in TiVo Central and the Guide in the extreme top right corner, so when I have overscan on, portions of the top and right ends of the window are cropped. It would be better to have the window offset somewhat from the extreme corner so that TVs with overscan on can get the entire window to be visible.


By not using 1:1 pixel mapping you are reducing your picture quality....and one of the very few who wants to degrade their picture quality.

Imo, do not see TiVo adjusting something for less than 1% of their users when screen space is at a premium in those screens.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Imo, do not see TiVo adjusting something for less than 1% of their users when screen space is at a premium in those screens.


The thing is, the other elements of the menu _are_ designed to be overscan-safe. You can see this by the large margins that appear on a non-overscanning display.

In this case, though, TiVo might prefer the look of the window filling up to the corner (even on a non-overscanning display) over having it completely viewable. It's not that watchable anyway.


----------



## KingsFan6 (Jan 1, 2016)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> By not using 1:1 pixel mapping you are reducing your picture quality....and one of the very few who wants to degrade their picture quality.
> 
> Imo, do not see TiVo adjusting something for less than 1% of their users when screen space is at a premium in those screens.


Yes, I understand that I am reducing quality, but I'm guessing that most users won't notice the difference, especially if you have a quality TV. We should also keep in mind that many broadcasters still expect the majority of their viewers to use overscan. Case in point: ESPN and other sports channels that have humongous black space under their scrolling score bar. Visually, it's a very bad look, but yes sure, the overall picture would be slightly clearer with 1:1 mapping if it's even really noticeable. And if you really pay attention, many channels (not just a small percentage, it's really a lot of channels), have very bad edges or pixels even turned off, as if they're assuming/expect that overscan will be on. Basically, the way I see it, argument can be made that the intended picture from broadcasters' POV is a cropped one!

And I think to say less than 1% of TiVo users have overscan on has got be an exagerration, especially for plasma TV owners.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

KingsFan6 said:


> Yes, I understand that I am reducing quality, but I'm guessing that most users won't notice the difference, especially if you have a quality TV. We should also keep in mind that many broadcasters still expect the majority of their viewers to use overscan. Case in point: ESPN and other sports channels that have humongous black space under their scrolling score bar. Visually, it's a very bad look, but yes sure, the overall picture would be slightly clearer with 1:1 mapping if it's even really noticeable. And if you really pay attention, many channels (not just a small percentage, it's really a lot of channels), have very bad edges or pixels even turned off, as if they're assuming/expect that overscan will be on. Basically, the way I see it, argument can be made that the intended picture from broadcasters' POV is a cropped one!
> 
> And I think to say less than 1% of TiVo users have overscan on has got be an exagerration, especially for plasma TV owners.


Huh? People with Quality TV would be first to notice!

Hardly anyone has overscan turned on. Because most have no idea how to find it in the menus


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Two of our flatscreen TVs have overscan, with no way to turn it off. A third came with it on by default, IIRC. These date from 2004 on; I do think manufacturers are moving away from it. But it's a long way from dead.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2016)

wmcbrine said:


> Two of our flatscreen TVs have overscan, with no way to turn it off. A third came with it on by default, IIRC. These date from 2004 on; I do think manufacturers are moving away from it. But it's a long way from dead.


For the most part, LCD/LED eliminated overscan and use 1:1 (not that there might be old holdovers from 2004 - hell, HDMI wasn't even in TVs until 2005.


----------



## KingsFan6 (Jan 1, 2016)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Huh? People with Quality TV would be first to notice!
> 
> Hardly anyone has overscan turned on. Because most have no idea how to find it in the menus


To my knowledge, based on an article I read not too long ago, most TVs have overscan on by default. Sure, TiVo users are more savvy and more likely to consider turning it off compared to the average person.

And a quality TV would inherently have a better scaler, so with a better TV, one would be less likely to notice a difference in picture quality between 1:1 and overscan.

Even if LCD/LED TVs have largely eliminated overscan by default (which you claim), I think there's still a fair share of plasma owners/videophiles who have to consider the possibility (imagined or not) of image retention and/or screen burn, which is another reason to use overscan instead of 1:1 mapping. My Samsung plasma has a pixel orbiter that works only with overscan on.


----------

