# America's Next Great Restaurant -- SPOLERS



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Who is watching this show? It premiers tonight on NBC. My TiVo is set.

Hosted by Bobby Flay, the show will award a winner a three 'fast casual' restaurant chain (Los Angeles, New York City, and Minneapolis)

http://www.nbc.com/a...eat-restaurant/

Will be interesting to see what concepts people have and if any of them are truly original or unique.

I figure a whole season thread is better for a show like this that probably won't draw a lot of comments. But if people want to break it up into a different thread each week, fine by me.

I just started watching.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

In case you missed it, CNBC will air it on Friday the 11th. I'm assuming it will be the case every Friday.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

It's gonna take another episode for me to really recall/remember all of the different concepts that made it to the final 10.

I know this isn't "Top Chef" or something like that and they are looking for a full concept that can work in multiple locations. But are they really gonna expect these contestants to cook for one thousand people by themselves?


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

I'm not sure about it yet. It reminds me of that invention show from a few years ago. I ended up bailing on that one because there wasn't enough competition between the players, therefore not enough drama to keep my attention.

We'll see. I feel like they could have just started the show with the 10 picks and skipped this episode. So maybe next week it will start to get interesting.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

I'm afraid to read the thread because of the SPOLERS. ;-)


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

This is another one of those British shows (Last Restaurant Standing) that is being migrated to the US. I don't know if Bobby Flay can compare to Raymond Blanc. I haven't watched last night's ep yet.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

What I want to know is, exactly what does the winner get? How much, if any, of a stake in the three restaurants do they get, and can the investors buy them out at any time? (For that matter, what stops the investors from opening up restaurant chains using the losers' ideas - or, for that matter, the winner's idea - without having to give them anything?)

-- Don


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> What I want to know is, exactly what does the winner get? How much, if any, of a stake in the three restaurants do they get, and can the investors buy them out at any time? (For that matter, what stops the investors from opening up restaurant chains using the losers' ideas - or, for that matter, the winner's idea - without having to give them anything?)
> 
> -- Don


They get an ownership stake in the restaurant along with "the investors". The fine print at the very end of the show doesn't say what percentage or any other detail. It's also not clear of the hosts/judges (Bobby Flay, the Chipotle guy, Curtis Stone, and that lady from Miami) are the actual investors or if it's someone else.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I DVR'd the show, but have not watched it. I figured I got a free burrito out of them, I might as well watch the show. Chipotle is about my favorite place to eat. I figure the first episode of the show I'll especially enjoy as I'm assuming it shows some background info on it starting.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

we watched it last night and set a season pass. looks promising. i also like they are not currently dragging it out into 2 hours like Apprentice and Biggest Loser.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm watching. I'm interested for now.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Just watched. Thought it was pretty good. I immediately liked the Indian restaurant idea. I can't even think of one. Also liked the Healthy Wraps idea from the WNBA star.

I'm assuming the Minnesota location is probably in Mall of America.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

It was decent although I thought some of the choices made by the judges were a bit random.

The Asian girl is cute.  According to http://www.nbc.com/americas-next-great-restaurant/bios/stephenie-park/, "She achieved a JD from Harvard Law and a BS in economics from the University of Pennsylvania..." Wow!


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Just finished watching. I liked the show. I don't like reality shows. So, there's a good chance I won't make it until the end. One thing that might get me there is one of the three locations they are opening a restaurant in is Minnesota. So, I'll be able to eat at the winning restaurant.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Hosted by Bobby Flay, the show will award a winner a three 'fast casual' restaurant chain (Los Angeles, New York City, and Minneapolis)


So... same category as Qdoba, Noodles and Co., Chipotle, etc.?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> So... same category as Qdoba, Noodles and Co., Chipotle, etc.?


I guess so. The web page doesn't make any mention of it. But during the show, they booted two guys who started off their pitch by talking about waiters.

This makes me think some of the comments about prep time of some of the food concepts are a bit off.

A grilled cheese doesn't take more time than a burger. And Pei Wei does plenty of stir fry with the same service model.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

appleye1 said:


> I'm not sure about it yet. It reminds me of that invention show from a few years ago.


The one on ABC?

This show seems like a combination of various other reality shows.. Shark Tank plus "that invention show" plus a cooking show.

Egads, info from the Shark Tank wikipedia page:
On August 10, 2010, ABC announced Jeff Foxworthy would be joining the panel alongside the other five Sharks for three of eight episodes for the second season.[3] On September 20, 2010, ABC announced Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban would also be joining the panel of sharks also for three episodes.[4] The second season begins Friday, March 25, 2011 at 8pm ET/PT on ABC and will air over nine weeks every Friday.

Anyhow, I really enjoyed this "..Great Restaurant" show.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Hoffer said:


> I DVR'd the show, but have not watched it. I figured I got a free burrito out of them, I might as well watch the show. Chipotle is about my favorite place to eat. I figure the first episode of the show I'll especially enjoy as I'm assuming it shows some background info on it starting.


argh, is that deal still around? I forgot to do it.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I love the way they are trying to re-brand fast food joints as "fast casual" - NOT.

I'll probably continue to watch for a while but I find all 4 judges idiots. They are the investors? Really? I doubt it.:down:


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

JoBeth66 said:


> This is another one of those British shows (Last Restaurant Standing) that is being migrated to the US. I don't know if Bobby Flay can compare to Raymond Blanc. I haven't watched last night's ep yet.


Bobby Flay: Not a fan. Raymond Blanc: Fan.

RB is doing a 2nd series of another concept, Kitchen Secrets, where he's doing the cooking in his restaurant kitchen on the BBC currently. Good stuff. *cough* torrents *cough*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/chefs/raymond_blanc


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

Mr. Soze said:


> Bobby Flay: Not a fan. Raymond Blanc: Fan.
> 
> RB is doing a 2nd series of another concept, Kitchen Secrets, where he's doing the cooking in his restaurant kitchen on the BBC currently. Good stuff. *cough* torrents *cough*
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/chefs/raymond_blanc


Coooool. Thanks for the heads-up!!

I like Raymond Blanc much better than Bobby Flay as well - hubby's big problem is that he can't understand a word Blanc is saying, and if they have him talking without subtitling it, he's lost.


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

Cainebj said:


> I love the way they are trying to re-brand fast food joints as "fast casual" - NOT.
> 
> I'll probably continue to watch for a while but I find all 4 judges idiots. They are the investors? Really? I doubt it.:down:


The Fast Food industry has been moving to the "Fast Casual" label for several years now. I suppose it's an attempt to distance themselves from the negative connotations of "Fast Food".

As for the judges I have no problem believing they are also investing in the selected concept. And I have seen Curtis Stone in other shows and wouldn't by any stretch call him an idiot. Why would you continue to watch this show "for a while" if you have such negative feelings about it?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

BrandonRe said:


> The Fast Food industry has been moving to the "Fast Casual" label for several years now. I suppose it's an attempt to distance themselves from the negative connotations of "Fast Food".


right. It's to counter the pejorative use of the phrase "fast food".



> As for the judges I have no problem believing they are also investing in the selected concept.?


I'm somewhat skeptical that they are really putting their own money on the line. Maybe they get an ownership stake as part of their payment for being on the show?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BrandonRe said:


> The Fast Food industry has been moving to the "Fast Casual" label for several years now. I suppose it's an attempt to distance themselves from the negative connotations of "Fast Food".


Also, it seems to me whenever I've heard that term used (which has been around a while), it's one step above McDonald's. That is, it seems to me to be between McD's and Chili's.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

fast casual is a market segment above fast food but below table service restaurants.

examples would be Chipotle,Smashburger, etc. The average check is higher than that of fast food, and the restaurant is more geared towards adults and more upscale in appearance.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

SPOLER ALERT! 

At first I was glad the racist guy got sent home, but then I realized it would have made for some fun controversy later had he stuck around.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

Are we doing one thread for the whole series?

Spoiler for week 2:



Spoiler



I enjoyed this episode and am fine with Sports Wrap going home. It was one of the weakest concepts. While I think s lot of the concepts fall flat, that was the easiest for any existing sandwich shop to integrate and wasn't special.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I think so.. That is what I asked for in the first post. HEck, I even said this thread would have SPOLERS.


So, SPOLE away!!


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Could've sworn Hick's (terrible name and logo) were goners.

I like the Indian food 'cause I think that's the one kind of 'fast casual' restaurant that does not exist.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> I like the Indian food 'cause I think that's the one kind of 'fast casual' restaurant that does not exist.


I can't think of one on a national scale. Only on a local/regional one.

Really, if there is one major world cuisine underserved on a large, mass market scale, it's Indian. And really, you would think people would really like it given the huge popularity of "Pan-Asian" restaurants.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I think the stir-fry chick is too late to the game. Aren't Genghis Grills almost everywhere now? If not, they soon will be. So while her concept is good, it's already done.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

MNoelH said:


> I think the stir-fry chick is too late to the game. Aren't Genghis Grills almost everywhere now? If not, they soon will be. So while her concept is good, it's already done.


they are.. But those aren't done in a wok!

But a better comparison here I think is to PeiWei. But PeiWei isn't a "design your own dish" type of place.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

LOL

I personally don't care if it's in a wok or on a grill. It's the same concept to me and I wouldn't pick one place over the other for that.

I also like that I get to choose how much of everything goes into my bowl. Not like Subway or some place that has a predetermined measurements.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> I can't think of one on a national scale. Only on a local/regional one.
> 
> Really, if there is one major world cuisine underserved on a large, mass market scale, it's Indian. And really, you would think people would really like it given the huge popularity of "Pan-Asian" restaurants.


Agreed, and it's something that is already wildly popular across England and the rest of Europe, as I understand.

My opinions of the concepts:
- Limbo: too NON-specific a concept. Virtually anything can be made into a "good for you"/"bad for you" version. 
- Saucy Balls: too specific a concept, too much of a novelty name. I would not go to someplace if it sounded like all they had was meatballs.
- Sports Wrap: Subway with a sports theme.
- Tiffin Box: see my thoughts above
- Compleat: The concern I'd have here is that those who are interested in this concept already do something like Weight Watchers, where they can order just about anywhere as long as they can look up the equivalent "points" value.
- Meltworks: Interesting concept, but somehow this just sounds similar to Quiznos, in that both serve fresh grilled sandwiches.
- Hard and Soft: how different is this from Chipotle/Qdoba, really?
- Hicks: A really good concept, actually... there really isn't a national decent fast casual American barbeque concept. They've just got to work on the food, and come up with a different name.
- W3: Too limited a concept, and the name is too confusing (until you realize that the "Woods" in the expanded version of the name is not an actual food item they are serving, but the guy's name)
- Wok: decent concept (we've got this exact concept in our dining room on campus, actually) but not differentiated enough from any of your other East Asian (particularly Chinese) restaurants.

I would say, based on just the concepts, Hicks and Tiffin Box are the only two I could see working as a nationwide franchised fast casual restaurant.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Limited isn't always bad. Look at In-n-Out. VERY limited. But very, very successful. In fact, it's key to their cult success. 

Chipotle is fairly limited too when it comes to choices. The "hard and soft" concept aims to offer FAR more choices. Of course, I think this is an example of too much choice being a negative.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

Speaking of limited. Reminds me of Raising Cane's concept that everyone said wouldn't work. Let's see... you can have chicken fingers, or chicken fingers, or perhaps you would prefer chicken fingers.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

I think they should rename Hick's SPOLER'S.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

scooterboy said:


> I think they should rename Hick's SPOLER'S.


lol


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> - Compleat: The concern I'd have here is that those who are interested in this concept already do something like Weight Watchers, where they can order just about anywhere as long as they can look up the equivalent "points" value.


This is the one that had _just_ calorie controlled ones, right?

There's the other one that had high calorie and lower calorie versions of basically the same thing, right? I don't think I'm mixing up two of them.

Anyway, if I am remembering and those are two separate concepts, at least based upon the prices, I think they could be good.

Basically, I eat total junk food, but if there is a lower calorie _close to_ equivalent, I would try that instead... Especially with the one that had good/bad choices, being able to mix up the good/bad (e.g. good main course, bad calorie wise fries, etc..), that would be a cool way to do it.

I think I said this before in another thread, but even though I keep reading studies about the calorie postings not making a difference for most people, they are making a VERY SLIGHT difference for me.. at least sometimes when choosing between my favorites anyway.

So if a place could do "fast food" that's actually lower calorie, great.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

mattack said:


> This is the one that had _just_ calorie controlled ones, right?


Yes, the concept of Compleat, as I understand, are complete meals that are calorie controlled.



> There's the other one that had high calorie and lower calorie versions of basically the same thing, right? I don't think I'm mixing up two of them.


Correct. The one you are referring to here is "Limbo."



> Anyway, if I am remembering and those are two separate concepts, at least based upon the prices, I think they could be good.
> 
> Basically, I eat total junk food, but if there is a lower calorie _close to_ equivalent, I would try that instead... Especially with the one that had good/bad choices, being able to mix up the good/bad (e.g. good main course, bad calorie wise fries, etc..), that would be a cool way to do it.
> 
> ...


Well, my response would be that these are supposed to be "fast casual" concepts, not fast food. While the idea of a light calorie fast food chain isn't a bad idea at all, it's really not what this show is looking for. The kind of food a fast casual restaurant should be serving is something that you wouldn't expect to be served in a box or paper wrapper.

I think my criteria for a good fast casual concept from this show would have to instantly tell you what type of food you can expect when you go there... yet still have enough variety that you can go there repeatedly. I think Noodles and Company is the perfect example of what I'm thinking of. You know right from that that they offer noodle dishes. Yet, even within that, you know that you can get all sorts of different noodle dishes from different kinds of cuisine.

I don't think either Limbo or Compleat meet that criteria. If I heard someone in the office say "Hey, we're going to Limbo for lunch" I would have no idea what kind of food they're serving. Even if they explained the concept, I still would have no clue what actually is on the menu, because even within the concept they could do ANYTHING, literally.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

MNoelH said:


> I think the stir-fry chick is too late to the game. Aren't Genghis Grills almost everywhere now? If not, they soon will be. So while her concept is good, it's already done.


I've never heard of Genghis Grill, and a quick google shows them only in 19 states (with a total of 16 existing locations and 28 'coming soons') - so not quite everywhere.  I LIKE that concept.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

meltwork has already been done (at least in the cleveland area) and featured in Diners, Drive ins, and Dives with Guy. I'm sure there are other similar places around too.

http://www.meltbarandgrilled.com/

haven't been there yet, but lines/waits are ridiculously long.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I watched this last night and, while not blown away, thought it was interesting. It had a familiar 'feel' to it and I found myself thinking of Top Chef (in production style, not content). Sure enough, I saw the Magical Elves logo at the end and that confirmed that it's the same production company!

As for the contestants...

Seems to me that Compleat would work much better as a supermarket offering than a restaurant. Competition to Healthy Choice or Lean Cuisine.

Tiffin Box is a great idea if you can convince the average American to try something new. I agree that it needs a better name, though. I know what a Tiffin Box is, but most Yanks won't.

Isn't Wok another varient on the Mongolian Grill idea? I have eaten at one and you fill your bowl with raw ingredients from a buffet-style line and take them to a grill to be cooked. This is also available in a lot of Chinese restaurants. So, IMO, not original enough.

Shane's Rib Shack is a chain of BBQ restaurants, serving pulled pork, ribs and other BBQ faves, so that doesn't bode well for Hick's.

Hard & Soft has been done - think Taco Mac and others (even Chipotle!) - and the guy is not too open to suggestions although he has an opinion about everything!

Saucy Balls has nowhere to go. Bad name and limited idea.

W3 - too confusing a name and too basic a food type.

Limbo - just bad, IMHO


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

JoBeth66 said:


> I've never heard of Genghis Grill, and a quick google shows them only in 19 states (with a total of 16 existing locations and 28 'coming soons') - so not quite everywhere.  I LIKE that concept.


I've never heard of it by that name, but in northern California, there's something similar: Great Khan's Mongolian.



LoadStar said:


> My opinions of the concepts:
> - Hicks: A really good concept, actually... there really isn't a national decent fast casual American barbeque concept. They've just got to work on the food, and come up with a different name.


Ever hear of Blues? (I think it's currently limited to Ohio.) Also, RUB tried expanding (into Vegas), but apparently it didn't work out very well. The best takeout BBQ places I've been to are in vans. It's hard to do "fast casual BBQ" at a chain level, as "proper" barbecue doesn't lend itself to "fast" food very well. (Besides, if there was a serious market for it, I can almost guarantee there would be "JR's BBQ" restaurants throughout the USA by now, backed by the WWE.)

-- Don


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

markymark_ctown said:


> meltwork has already been done (at least in the cleveland area) and featured in Diners, Drive ins, and Dives with Guy. I'm sure there are other similar places around too.
> 
> http://www.meltbarandgrilled.com/
> 
> haven't been there yet, but lines/waits are ridiculously long.


I think you guys are confusing concepts...

The show is about a fast food restaurant, not a casual dining concept. 
Even a restaurant like Tijuana Flats, which is similar to Chipotle, but with a few more options and does have bussers / people that deliver your food/refill drinks might not fit into this category.

Almost every type, theme of restaurant has been done. But not in a smaller, quicker, venue.

In order to succeed, the food has to be fairly simple, you're not going to have chefs, or even line cooks making the food. You will have high school students, and minimum wage workforce. You can't have overly complicated items, and you can't have too many ingredients.

I really wanted to like this show, I really enjoyed the food truck race, but I amazed at how little knowledge any of these people have.

-Wok:I don't get it at all, any Pei Wei, Panda Express, corner chinese restaurant will make anything you want. If you tell them you want this sauce, and this vegetable, they'll do it for you. Chinese is fast, and they deliver. I can't see this taking off.

-Meltworks: He seems to have the best idea of what he wants, and seems to have the best tasting food. It's not original, and it's not something you can't do on your own at home, but there's nothing like it in fast food nationally.

If they made super high quality grilled cheese, and i could drive thru, i'd definitely visit. Do a few soups, which are easy. This is a win. 
We have a place called the Pop Shop here, who Bobby Flay lost a grilled cheese battle to, that makes incredible grilled cheese sandwiches. I go way out of my way for them. IT would make a great franchise, but it's a diner style soda shop, not fast food. 
http://www.thepopshopusa.com/home.html

- Limbo : I don't get it. If you want to squeeze the fat out of your " angel" dish, and make it tasteless, and bland, who would order it?

- Saucy Balls: They haven't even really talked about pasta. I think I saw it, but is it his plan to serve it? Or will they be meatball sandwiches? I think this guy just has a slightly offensive name, and one item. I wouldn't have let him in the top 10.

- Tiffin Box: I don't see middle America, or even a lot of my friends even trying this place. I can see it doing well in metropolitan areas, but not in the heartland.

- Compleat : This I can see working. Offer five choices of entrees, five sides, and five tea type beverages. Make them all add up to a set calorie ( say 750) and a set price.
Let the person mix and match. Stick to locally grown, and healthy, and I think people might come.

- Hard and Soft: Terrible idea. Same as the wrap place. Unless you have signature items, it's a big huge fail. 
"I can put any type of food into a tortilla". No kidding, cultures have been doing it for thousands of years. But who wants veal parm in a taco shell?

- Hicks: could work, but they need to have things like pulled pork sliders, with the slaw on top served in a cornbread. If they could get their menu in order, and work on the logo and name, it's a contender.

- W3: I don't even think this guy know what he wants to serve. And who cares what your name is. You're not wendy, and you don't have pigtails.

Hicks, Compleat, both in the running. Meltworks FTW.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

Every mongolian grill i've ever been to, has been a sit down " fancier than Mcdonalds" restaurant. Like Bd's, or Fire and Ice. is this Gheghis fast food?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> I think you guys are confusing concepts...
> 
> The show is about a fast food restaurant, not a casual dining concept.


No, it's not a fast food NOR a casual dining concept. It's "fast casual." Chipotle, Noodles, Qdoba, Genghis Grill, and Panera Bread are all examples of fast casual.


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## ireland967 (Feb 27, 2003)

I'm surprised Sports Wrap made it to this round, not a unique idea in any way. Personally, while it seems freeing I don't like the idea of coming up with the entire meal yourself - I like having set combinations to choose from, particularly for a fast lunch I'm not always in a mood to think.

I don't see Saucy Balls making it far. There is a mobile food truck group in Chicago called Meaty Balls that does well, he should look at that arena and not a nationwide chain.

I'd be pissed too if I saw a sign for chicken and waffles and was handed gumbo, no matter how good it was.

I don't get the concept Limbo is trying to sell.

I love the idea of putting heavy emphasis on nutrional content and would like to see Compleat do well, and I agree with Swirl on pushing local, in-season ingredients.

I like Hicks' concept, I hope they get their heads in the game.

I saw Meltworks running away with this particular competition. Seems like a great idea, and he's proven he can work in a fast-paced environment. I wonder how big his margin of victory was.

I'd love to see Tiffin Box do well, time will tell on how they perform. I agree that it may be a hard sell for much of America, but there's a lot to be said for this type of restaurant starting in a major metro, building a reputation and then expanding their reach.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I must be the only one that doesn't get the "Hick's" concept. Really, I don't even think the people that want to operate that concept reallly have a clear idea what their concept is.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I was amazed at how sucky some of those logos were. Even Compleat's logo was not good, and I _wanted_ to like it.

Sports Wrap woman was obnoxious and I'm willing to bet that's 90% of why she was cut. Taco guy needs to go soon too for that very same reason.

I doubt that middle America is ready for "fast casual" Indian food. But then again, the three starter restaurants aren't in middle America, are they?


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> Every mongolian grill i've ever been to, has been a sit down " fancier than Mcdonalds" restaurant. Like Bd's, or Fire and Ice. is this Gheghis fast food?


I don't think it's classified as fast food. Like other have described with the Mongolian stir fry concept, you walk in, get a table and at the same time are given a silver bowl. You wait to place your drink order with your server. You go to a buffet area and fill your silver bowl with raw meats and veggies and spices. You then come up to the area with about 12 sauces available. There are little bowls that you put your flavor in. You place your bowl on top of your sauce bowl at the cook counter and tell them which starch you want: fried rice, steamed rice, noodles, or pita bread. They give you a number and you go back to your table where your drink has arrived. A few minutes later you are presented with your bowl of cooked food.

Edit to add: I've never been to a Chipotle or a Freebirds, so I have no idea if they have servers at all and if the concept of Genghis Grill is more advanced than what they're going for in this show.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

jradosh said:


> II doubt that middle America is ready for "fast casual" Indian food. But then again, the three starter restaurants aren't in middle America, are they?


Minneapolis is pretty "middle America"

It's not like Americans don't like new and different. If that were the case, there wouldn't be anything other than burger places. Before Chipotle came, were people in middle america eating Mission Style burritos? What about the growth of "pan-asian"? Not *just* Chinnese but Korean and Thai and what not. You see that in chain places like PeWei. That wasn't common not too long ago.

Honetly, the more I think about it, the more I become baffled about Indian not quite catching on here yet. It fits nicely into the "Pan-Asian" concept. If you like all that stuff, you'll like Indian.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> No, it's not a fast food NOR a casual dining concept. It's "fast casual." Chipotle, Noodles, Qdoba, Genghis Grill, and Panera Bread are all examples of fast casual.


Point taken, my mistake. 
I still think, in order to survive these concepts need to keep a low inventory ( fewer variables), have less skilled cooks. The food has to be simple. 
You can't have it all. 
It's hard to be fast, have high quality ingredients, offer a reasonable price, and still easily make a profit.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

MNoelH said:


> Edit to add: I've never been to a Chipotle or a Freebirds, so I have no idea if they have servers at all and if the concept of Genghis Grill is more advanced than what they're going for in this show.


They do not.

At Chipotle, they assemble your burrito or bowl or tacos right in front of you. You pay. Then walk away with your food. No order numbers. No bringing it to the table. Really, it's actually a lot more like McDonalds, except that you see them prepare the food DIRECTLY infront of you. It's not "hidden" in a back kitchen.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Honetly, the more I think about it, the more I become baffled about Indian not quite catching on here yet. It fits nicely into the "Pan-Asian" concept. If you like all that stuff, you'll like Indian.


You may be right, if someone was to sample Indian cuisine, it would make more sense for them to do it on a less formally, on a smaller budget before they went to a real Indian restaurant .


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

It's a burrito subway.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> They do not.
> 
> At Chipotle, they assemble your burrito or bowl or tacos right in front of you. You pay. Then walk away with your food. No order numbers. No bringing it to the table. Really, it's actually a lot more like McDonalds, except that you see them prepare the food DIRECTLY infront of you. It's not "hidden" in a back kitchen.


So it's like Subway?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

MNoelH said:


> So it's like Subway?


exactly!!

Except the food is of much higher quality.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

Jeff -

Speaking of new restaurants, I don't think there's one in Dallas yet, but have you heard of The Counter? We tried it out recently and it was pretty darned good. It's a sit down and be served place, so it wouldn't qualify for what this place is doing, but it's just barely over the line. You place your order by checking boxes on the menu which you hand to your server. It's on the expensive side, but we had a buy one burger get another burger free and were pleasantly surprised.

Here's the link. http://www.thecounterburger.com/


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

Would Which Wich qualify as fast casual or is that just fast food? I'm really having a problem figuring out exactly what qualifies.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

MNoelH said:


> Jeff -
> 
> Speaking of new restaurants, I don't think there's one in Dallas yet, but have you heard of The Counter? We tried it out recently and it was pretty darned good. It's a sit down and be served place, so it wouldn't qualify for what this place is doing, but it's just barely over the line. You place your order by checking boxes on the menu which you hand to your server. It's on the expensive side, but we had a buy one burger get another burger free and were pleasantly surprised.
> 
> Here's the link. http://www.thecounterburger.com/


yes. Heard of it. first heard of it out in the Bay Area. But I never went.

Just what Dallas needs. Yet another burger chain.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

I think Chipotle is exactly the definition of fast casual. A little more upscale, higher quality, made to order. Could have a food runner to bring food or refill beverages.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

MNoelH said:


> Would Which Wich qualify as fast casual or is that just fast food? I'm really having a problem figuring out exactly what qualifies.


Honestly, I have a hard time disntinquishing between the two myself.

It's like Subway and Quiznos. They make your sammich to order. Except that unlike Subway, I beliece you DO wait until they call your name or number. If THAT makes a diffrence, that's a different.

But honsetly, it's all mostly the same to me. But yes, I would say Which Which would fall into the type of restaurant they are going for with this show. Really, they want a restaurant without waiters/servers. Whatever label you decide to attach to that, that is what it is. If you want to call it "fast casual" because think "Fast Food" conjurs up a negative image, fine.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> Honetly, the more I think about it, the more I become baffled about Indian not quite catching on here yet. It fits nicely into the "Pan-Asian" concept. If you like all that stuff, you'll like Indian.


People aren't afraid of Chinese food. Yet many are afraid of Indian, or Thai, thinking it must be too spicy hot. This might take a bit skilled marketing to overcome.

Indian is perfect for this type of restaurant, and I too find it hard to believe it hasn't happened. Look at Panda Express for Chinese. Much Indian food can be made in advance of the order and just dished out or can be cooked very quickly.

However, Tiffin Box absolutely needs a new name. I eat Indian all the time, and I didn't even know what one was until now.

I was disappointed in many of the logos. I thought Hard & Soft tacos had the best logo, if not a very original concept. I think the judges/investors need to realize that suit-wearing millionaires aren't necessarily the target market for these places.

Compleat needs a new name too. Or at least a better logo.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

justen_m said:


> People aren't afraid of Chinese food. Yet many are afraid of Indian, or Thai, thinking it must be too spicy hot. This might take a bit skilled marketing to overcome.
> 
> .


The people at PeiWei figured it out. It would seem that integrating Indian into this would be not so difficult.

Maybe it's because people think Indian is all vegetarian?


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

It's really a fine line.
Take a place like Outback, which I'm picking just because I think most will have been there. It's obviously not fast food, but have you looked at their decor? It's paneling, and an acoustic ceiling, and benches you'd find in any diner. They succeed, or did, because they cut corners, and still offered a good product for the money. They were consistent, and put their efforts into the food. They could easily build out a strip store location for $400,ooo. In their heyday , they were extremely profitable.
Then you have PeiWei, which is upscale, for the food they are serving. The delivering food to the table, the quality of their serving utensils, and containers, that all adds up.
In the end, these places have to make a profit. They can't have linens, or expensive flourishes, unless they want to charge a premium. And I think, until this latest rash of nine dollar burger places, it has to fall into the seven dollar per customer zone.
I don't know if compleat can do that.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> It's really a fine line.
> Take a place like Outback, which I'm picking just because I think most will have been there. It's obviously not fast food, but have you looked at their decor? It's paneling, and an acoustic ceiling, and benches you'd find in any diner. They succeed, or did, because they cut corners, and still offered a good product for the money. They were consistent, and put their efforts into the food. They could easily build out a strip store location for $400,ooo. In their heyday , they were extremely profitable.
> Then you have PeiWei, which is upscale, for the food they are serving. The delivering food to the table, the quality of their serving utensils, and containers, that all adds up.
> In the end, these places have to make a profit. They can't have linens, or expensive flourishes, unless they want to charge a premium. And I think, until this latest rash of nine dollar burger places, it has to fall into the seven dollar per customer zone.
> I don't know if compleat can do that.


Outback is clearly not anywhere close to fast food or fast casual. It's a full service, sit down restauant. It's a bit on the casual side, but it's not as casual as say a local diner or an IHOP or Denny's.

PeiWei is fast casual. Not full service sit down. It's within the type of restaurant this show want's to create.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

I understand that. I was saying, Outback, while not fast food, did things right when it came to the economics of running a restaurant. 
PeiWei, has taken a pretty brash approach, and it will be interesting to see if it can survive. 
I like PeiWei, for what it is, but I think it's pressing the envelope. 

I was merely saying, that some of these concepts might have difficulty staying within the area in which people are willing to pay for a fast casual lunch. 
I guess I didn't make myself clear. 
I'm thinking more along the lines of one of these becoming a national chain, not three storefronts that fail in six months. 

To be honest, my local Chick Fil-A is nicer, better maintained, and has a better staff than either of these for me. But I think that has something to do with the management style.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> I understand that. I was saying, Outback, while not fast food, did things right when it came to the economics of running a restaurant.
> PeiWei, has taken a pretty brash approach, and it will be interesting to see if it can survive.
> I like PeiWei, for what it is, but I think it's pressing the envelope.
> 
> ...


Ther is nothing brash about PeiWei. It's not pushing any envelope. It survises and thrives in white-bread, round-eyed middle American. It's making very Americanized/Westernized versions of multiple Asian cusines.

Just look at where they are

http://www.peiwei.com/Locations/


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

I'm beginning to see why they call it smeeking. 

I don't mean brash in where they are located, but that some concepts might not be able to pull off the silverware, foodrunner, free fortune cookie, upscale type of setting. 

I think people go to PeiWei, because it's essentially the same food as P.F's but for lesser money. People see it as a value, as it is still nice, and could almost be considered as nice of setting as a typical casual concept like Olive Garden, or Chili's.
People have a set amount they want to pay for a quick lunch, or informal dinner. 
I think we all know that you are a foodie, and don't place those same restrictions on your choices. For much of America, it's a six dollar lunch, and an eight dollar dinner when it comes to a fast casual. 

This is getting all muddled together as I brought too many factors into week two of a tv show. 

I like meltworks, cool logo, decent name, could be very good food. Economical, and easy to reproduce.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> I'm beginning to see why they call it smeeking.
> 
> I don't mean brash in where they are located, but that some concepts might not be able to pull off the silverware, foodrunner, free fortune cookie, upscale type of setting.
> 
> .


Hmm... silverware is brash? Foodrunners? They are pretty common in "fast casual" places.Fortune cookie? Not really brash, either. But I don't think the chicken and waffles place is gonna give a free fortune cookie.  You would be right about that.

I don't really think of PeiWei as being all that upscale. Sure, it's nicer than a McDonalds or a Subway. But really, is it any fancier than a lot of fast casual places? I don't think so. I think a lot of these concepts could be similairly styled, ESPECIALLY if you want to cater to a dine in crowd vs a to-go/drive through crowd.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Hmm... silverware is brash? Foodrunners? They are pretty common in "fast casual" places.Fortune cookie? Not really brash, either. But I don't think the chicken and waffles place is gonna give a free fortune cookie.  You would be right about that.
> 
> I don't really think of PeiWei as being all that upscale. Sure, it's nicer than a McDonalds or a Subway. But really, is it any fancier than a lot of fast casual places? I don't think so. I think a lot of these concepts could be similairly styled, ESPECIALLY if you want to cater to a dine in crowd vs a to-go/drive through crowd.


Well, I don't really think there are a lot of fast casual places. But you're right, more of a dine in crowd. 
I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just a fairly gray area. 
I picked PeiWei, because it IS different. If you go in, and you look at their lighting, their staging, a lot of thought and style, and substance goes into all of it. I said brash, because I think it is bucking trends when it comes to the norm, in a good way, but I'm not sure that all styles of cuisine, or themes could do this effectively. I've run a few Restaurants, I'm not totally talking out my rear.

The Tiffin Box, or Compleat could fit into this style the best, and would have to as their food costs would require a higher ticket.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

jradosh said:


> I was amazed at how sucky some of those logos were. Even Compleat's logo was not good, and I _wanted_ to like it.
> 
> Sports Wrap woman was obnoxious and I'm willing to bet that's 90% of why she was cut. Taco guy needs to go soon too for that very same reason.
> *
> I doubt that middle America is ready for "fast casual" Indian food. But then again, the three starter restaurants aren't in middle America, are they*?


I'd be all over that. I still want the local place to make chicken tikka pizza.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> Well, I don't really think there are a lot of fast casual places. But you're right, more of a dine in crowd.
> I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just a fairly gray area.
> I picked PeiWei, because it IS different. If you go in, and you look at their lighting, their staging, a lot of thought and style, and substance goes into all of it. I said brash, because I think it is bucking trends when it comes to the norm, in a good way, but I'm not sure that all styles of cuisine, or themes could do this effectively. I've run a few Restaurants, I'm not totally talking out my rear.
> 
> The Tiffin Box, or Compleat could fit into this style the best, and would have to as their food costs would require a higher ticket.


Pei Wei certaily is designed nicely for a fast casual place. I still struggle with this concept of tapas style food for fast casual. It doesn't seem to make sense to me. But really, if any concept needs to appeal to the dine in crowd, it's Hicks.

But as you said earlier, there is a lot of variablity allowed. I only mentioned PeiWei not for the desgin or because they have free fortune cookies, but because the Americanized Pan-Asian food they serve seems to suggest, just maybe, that America could go for an Americanized Indian food place.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

I agree with the similarities to tiffin box, and perphaps America could get on board. I can honestly say I've only been for Indian once, and thai just a few times. There are just so many options out there, and when I do get food out, I tend to pick what I know I like. I hate to spend even ten dollars, and be let down by a meal.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> I hate to spend even ten dollars, and be let down by a meal.


Meh... $10 is a cheap lesson. 

It's much worse when you drop well over $100 for one and it's a let down.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

I've been there a few times, but I really try to avoid it. 
Thankfully, Chowhound , Urban Spoon, and Yelp! help avoid costly mistakes.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I actually think Saucy Balls could be very successful. It could be like the Italian equivalent of Chipotle or Salad Works. They could have standard dishes that you can customize or create your own. Pick your pasta (spaghetti, ravioli, fettucine, etc.), sauce (marinara, fra diavlo alfredo, etc.), toppings (primavera, meatballs, sausage, etc.). Assembled and quickly tossed in a saute pan and served. As for the name, I don't think it's any worse than say Hooters or The Road Kill Cafe.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> I think Chipotle is exactly the definition of fast casual. A little more upscale, higher quality, made to order. Could have a food runner to bring food or refill beverages.


Speaking of which, more than a few times lately a Chipotles worker has come to the table and asked if we wanted a chips refill or a soda refill. So far I haven't taken them up on it, and I don't even know if the chips offer was on the house or if we'd have to pay for them. I could see the soda refill being on the house since the filling station is out in the dining room, and the common wisdom is that means refills are free. But chips?


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

MNoelH said:


> I think the stir-fry chick is too late to the game. Aren't Genghis Grills almost everywhere now? If not, they soon will be. So while her concept is good, it's already done.





JoBeth66 said:


> I've never heard of Genghis Grill, and a quick google shows them only in 19 states (with a total of 16 existing locations and 28 'coming soons') - so not quite everywhere.  I LIKE that concept.


I'd never heard of them either, probably because I've lived only in WA and CA.


That Don Guy said:


> I've never heard of it by that name, but in northern California, there's something similar: Great Khan's Mongolian.


Yep, I've been to a bunch of Great Khan's. They have lots of locations, mostly in CA per http://www.greatkhans.com/locations.htm. I've been to other Mongolian grills all around CA, OR (I believe) and WA too, but some are out of business now.


Swirl_Junkie said:


> Every mongolian grill i've ever been to, has been a sit down " fancier than Mcdonalds" restaurant. Like Bd's, or Fire and Ice. is this Gheghis fast food?


Great Khan's Mongolian that I've been to were in food courts of shopping malls. There's no dedicated sit down area for them at all, just the shared food court.

I used to go to Mongol's (http://maps.google.com/maps/place?o...hnear=Los+Angeles,+CA&cid=6402872715195944322) when I was in LA and it was sit down, w/a little bit of waiter service. I've been to other Mongolian BBQs (some defunct) that were restaurants w/waiters too.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Shane's Rib Shack is a chain of BBQ restaurants, serving pulled pork, ribs and other BBQ faves, so that doesn't bode well for Hick's.


and Armadillo Willy's.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I know that I could go google it, but is the "Indian food" that Tiffin Box is making the same or different from what people (at least I) already know as Indian food? Basically various curries. It sounded to me his was a different region than what people commonly think of.

I think it's interesting because I love Chinese food, some Thai food is ok, but don't like Indian food, even though I like the various ingredients -- as a very big generalization -- rice & meat & vegetables with a sauce on it. I've always thought that there probably would eventually be some sort of variety of Indian food I'd really like.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I actually think Saucy Balls could be very successful. It could be like the Italian equivalent of Chipotle or Salad Works. They could have standard dishes that you can customize or create your own. Pick your pasta (spaghetti, ravioli, fettucine, etc.), sauce (marinara, fra diavlo alfredo, etc.), toppings (primavera, meatballs, sausage, etc.). Assembled and quickly tossed in a saute pan and served. As for the name, I don't think it's any worse than say Hooters or The Road Kill Cafe.


I used to go to a pasta bar in the Wyndham Hotel one day a week. It is very fast and is done while standing in the line, It was always very popular too. I never even considered that until you brought it up and presented it that way, but it's a very good and doable idea; however, I think the name would have to change.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mattack said:


> I know that I could go google it, but is the "Indian food" that Tiffin Box is making the same or different from what people (at least I) already know as Indian food? Basically various curries. It sounded to me his was a different region than what people commonly think of.
> 
> I think it's interesting because I love Chinese food, some Thai food is ok, but don't like Indian food, even though I like the various ingredients -- as a very big generalization -- rice & meat & vegetables with a sauce on it. I've always thought that there probably would eventually be some sort of variety of Indian food I'd really like.


India is a big place and has plenty of diversity. The cuisine varies from region to region. It's like China. You already know not all Chinese food is the same. You enjoy all the variety there, right? It's the same with Indian. Or Mexican. Or Italian. Or French. Or American.

His ultimate concept for "Tiffin Box" would probably need to evolve and not be so centric on one cuisine. He's already admitted it shouldn't be all vegetarian.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> India is a big place and has plenty of diversity. The cuisine varies from region to region. It's like China. You already know not all Chinese food is the same. You enjoy all the variety there, right? It's the same with Indian. Or Mexican. Or Italian. Or French. Or American.
> 
> His ultimate concept for "Tiffin Box" would probably need to evolve and not be so centric on one cuisine. He's already admitted it shouldn't be all vegetarian.


they had to PULL that out of him (10-15%) - it was clear he did /not/ want to do meat, and he wasn't happy with the idea. I also think it sucks that they didn't have a chef for him to use that had any experience with the cuisine. That put him at a distinct disadvantage over the others. I'm one of those who doesn't care for Indian food, and I've had all kinds. I've just never found anything I like.

I still like Wok, and I like Meltworks, too. I think upscale grilled cheese is just as doable as burgers. Who doesn't love a good grilled cheese? (As was mentioned up-thread, we have a place called The Pop Shop here that does awesome grilled cheese - my son's apartment is around the corner from them. This is a concept I already enjoy and I can completely get behind.)

And the place is generally mobbed when we're there.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> India is a big place and has plenty of diversity. The cuisine varies from region to region. It's like China. You already know not all Chinese food is the same. You enjoy all the variety there, right? It's the same with Indian. Or Mexican. Or Italian. Or French. Or American.


yadda yadda yadda..

Mexican = tacos, tostadas, enchiladas..
italian = pasta + sauce...

that kind of thing.. that's what I mean.. is his region or whatever of Indian food different from what we THINK OF when we think of Indian food.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> India is a big place and has plenty of diversity. The cuisine varies from region to region. It's like China. You already know not all Chinese food is the same. You enjoy all the variety there, right? It's the same with Indian. Or Mexican. Or Italian. Or French. Or American.


True, but my guess (based on my own experience) is that a vast majority of Indian restaurants in the US all serve roughly the same style of food. Until a few years ago that was, basically, Americanized north-Indian food almost exclusively (except for dosas). Of late, we are starting to see more and more south-Indian food creep in uniformly.

I believe that most Americans are not ready for a chain fast casual place unless it focuses either on stuff like samosas and dosas (such places do already exist, not in large scale chains though) or the well-known north indian fare (such as koorma) and faux-indian fare (such as chicken tikka masala).


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

" Hey, what's this?" I proclaimed as I passed one of their locations yesterday. They are rolling out food trucks too.
http://www.tiffin.com


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

I think you should spoilerize that since it hasn't aired yet.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Is that in any way related to the guy on the show? Or just a coincidence? The've already aired the fact that they have to run a food truck. That isn't a spoiler.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I think it's just an unfortunate coincidence for the guy on the show, since it probably means he'll have to change his name at the very least to avoid confusion.

Edit: it looks like that is North Indian food. The restaurant on the show said he wanted to do South Indian food, right?


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> Is that in any way related to the guy on the show? Or just a coincidence? The've already aired the fact that they have to run a food truck. That isn't a spoiler.


Nevermind, I didn't check the site before posting but it looks like this is something completely different since it opened in 2007 in PA only. I thought he was giving away the winner.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Nevermind, I didn't check the site before posting but it looks like this is something completely different since it opened in 2007 in PA only. I thought he was giving away the winner.


There is no way they would have launched the website for the winner this far out in advance.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make it look like it was a spoiler. 
It's just a similar thing, I didn't eat there, I was just driving by. 
I didn't know they existed, or I would have mentioned it earlier.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I don't think the winning restaurant is really even open yet, even if the show has been totally completed. The show has a countdown that suggests the winning restaurant opens at the finale of the show.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

I think you're right Jeff, and I think it happens at the very end of the show.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

The show is kinda fun, but so far I've found all of the contestants annoying. They are kinda begging the investors to be into their concepts. 

And the background music. All these reality shows have such overwhelming music. Tone it down a bit.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

The whole thing at the Chipotle restaurant was comical, but not entirely unexpected. They'd never worked there before. It was pretty funny how the founder ended up stepping in. I thought how it was funny that Jamawn (?) was the loud one there. 

Was Alex always the annoying and cocky player in the previous eps? I thought it was him but never watched him that closely.


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

Dang, I think I forgot to record it.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

cwerdna said:


> The whole thing at the Chipotle restaurant was comical, but not entirely unexpected. They'd never worked there before. It was pretty funny how the founder ended up stepping in.


I was wondering this. How could they be expected to run a restuarant that they had just stepped into 1/2 hour before? It is insane to think it would work. Would have been better if the founder had been there to start them off and show them for the first 15 minutes with customers, not just as a training thing and then left them on their own. Some of them did okay with their duties, but I think the line had too many people working it. Usually there are only 3 servers and a cashier and certainly not one guy in the back with his loud voice urging them on. I think I would have kicked him at some point.

The Hick's or Grill Billies or whatever should have gone home. They seemed very disjointed and confused by what they were doing.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> Dang, I think I forgot to record it.


You can watch it online at NBC. http://www.nbc.com/americas-next-great-restaurant/video/


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

betts4 said:


> The Hick's or Grill Billies or whatever should have gone home. They seemed very disjointed and confused by what they were doing.


Seriously. If you called Pulled Pork "grilled" you don't understand the difference between BBQ and Grilling, and you should not be running a restaurant about it.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

betts4 said:


> I was wondering this. How could they be expected to run a restuarant that they had just stepped into 1/2 hour before? It is insane to think it would work. Would have been better if the founder had been there to start them off and show them for the first 15 minutes with customers, not just as a training thing and then left them on their own.


I think they had more than 30 minutes to prep but yeah, I still think the situation was unfair and the producers knew that it wasn't likely going to work out too well.

Of course Stephenie (the cute Korean girl) was able to smile because she had an easy job greeting the customers. If she was under the gun doing all the things afterward, I don't think she'd be smiling.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Hick's/Grill Billies have NO CLUE what they want. BBQ? no.. we'll grill now! And we'll have pulled pork. I come in there and want to know what I can get. Oh, cole slaw!

<sigh>

I think I am liking "Chicken and Waffles" guy even more now that he changed his name to Soul Daddy's to reflect the place being a soul food place. And very nice name change for the Indian place. It's great. Has a good direct connection to his life in India.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Swirl_Junkie said:


> Dang, I think I forgot to record it.


They also rerun it IIRC on CNBC.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Frylock said:


> Seriously. If you called Pulled Pork "grilled" you don't understand the difference between BBQ and Grilling, and you should not be running a restaurant about it.


Although I agree with you, I keep going back to Chipotle. Other than being Mexican, the name has little to do with the actual food. There are no chipotle peppers anywhere on the menu. That aside, this team has no idea what they really want their restaurant to be serving and they should be gone.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

I don't think "Grillbillies" is any better than HICK'S. They should really give SPOLER'S a shot for next week!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

we can't change the thread title now. All the jokes would stip being teh funny.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Although I agree with you, I keep going back to Chipotle. Other than being Mexican, the name has little to do with the actual food. There are no chipotle peppers anywhere on the menu...


Chipotles are never served whole. They are jalapenos smoked and dried over a fire. They're available either as a dried pepper or reconstituted in adobo sauce. Their smoky and hot goodness is always used as an ingredient for seasoning.

from the Chipotle Mexican Grill Ingredients:


> Naturally raised chicken, marinated overnight in our smoky, spicy chipotle pepper adobo, then grilled. The char marks impart a subtle caramelized flavor.





> Lean steak marinated for hours in our smoky, spicy chipotle pepper adobo, then grilled to a juicy, medium-rare.





> Spicy, shredded beef, slowly braised for hours in a blend of chipotle pepper adobo, cumin, cloves, garlic and oregano until tender and moist.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I was glad to see taco-guy gone (whatwashisname?) He was so negative towards the other contestants, and his notion of him being 'hip' really rubbed me the wrong way. 

I'm glad Stephanie turned her concept around. Go girl!!! 

Amazing the Grill Billies pulled it out. I didn't think they could.

Grill Cheese guy has been planning this for three years?!?!  Wow, he's much further entrenched in his concept than I thought. No wonder he was so unwilling to take the suggestions the 'investors' were offering.

I wonder how many of the voting crowd got to eat at each restaurant?

And, yeah, I'm tired of "Saucy Balls" already. I think they're right... once you've had them once what is going to keep you coming back? Certainly not garlic-breath. If he turns it into more of a pasta-bar kind of place... maybe.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'm glad to see Taco guy go, too.

Hillbilly hicks? They are annoying me, still. Starting to be like Taco guy with their snarky comments. 

"Compleat", which is no longer "Compleat" and now something different? I dunno. Still seems like she doesn't have a lot of focus or direction or passion for it.

I still like the "Saucy Balls" guy. He seems to have real, genuine passion for is idea/concept. So does grilled cheese guy. But I am glad someone finally pointed out his sandwiches had too much stuff that wasn't cheese in them. Really, a lot of what we have seen so far are grilled sandwiches that had some cheeese in them.

Happy that Spice Coast got the most votes. Though I think given the crowd of supposed "food people", it probably doesn't reflect broader American tastes.

More interesting, but not really surprising, is the judges/"investors" talking about things like making sure your food can be eaten on the run. Or can be eaten before going to a long meeting at work.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> the judges/"investors" talking about things


These four judges/"investors" are the 4 biggest gasbags on television.

(With the exception of perhaps Donald Trump and the women on The View.)


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> I'm glad to see Taco guy go, too.
> ...
> "Compleat", which is no longer "Compleat" and now something different? I dunno. Still seems like she doesn't have a lot of focus or direction or passion for it.
> 
> I still like the "Saucy Balls" guy. He seems to have real, genuine passion for is idea/concept.


Ditto about the taco guy. IIRC, he kept ripping on the other contestants in the kitchen and was rather cocky.

Yeah, that's weird about the Asian girl and yet the investors are totally ok w/her change of direction. I like the fact that she's still on. 

Agreed about the "Saucy Balls" guy. I don't think I'd visit a place w/that name and I don't think I could eat that type of food all that often.

The investors seem to make some really arbitrary decisions in almost every ep.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

Really glad to see taco guy go. Sinners/Saints lady is not going to last a whole lot longer, either, I think - I'm not sure on the concept, and she seems to be middle of the pack every time. 

Saucy Balls? No way he makes it too much longer. One note, and I just don't see him having mass appeal.


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## grant33 (Jun 11, 2003)

justen_m said:


> People aren't afraid of Chinese food. Yet many are afraid of Indian, or Thai, thinking it must be too spicy hot. This might take a bit skilled marketing to overcome.


I'm always amazed at how many people I talk to who don't like "ethnic" food. I put it in quotes because that's what I hear people say. I'll talk to someone about an Indian or Thai restaurant I like and they'll say "I don't like ethnic food". I ask if they like Mexican, Chinese, Italian, etc. and they say they do. Those aren't "ethnic" food? It's weird what has gone mainstream in the U.S. and what hasn't. I know that a lot of what we eat is Americanized versions, but there aren't even Americanized versions of Indian or Thai that are mainstream. The other thing I hear when I mention things like Thai or Indian is "I don't like spicy food". I always answer with "then don't order something spicy". For some reason people understand perfectly well that Chinese and Mexican food has spicy and non-spicy choices, but think Indian and Thai is all super-spicy. It seems like some marketing company could make a huge hit out of those food types.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

I think we can safely say that America's Next Great Restaurant will not be found in this group.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I think there can be a big difference between eastern "ethnic" foods, and western/european ones. People generally don't think of European as being all that ethnic or foreign.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Based on these concepts, I'd hate to see the losing concepts!

I still think the leaders are Soul Daddy and Spice Coast. It fits the model well, and is something that can be "Americanized" so that it has mass appeal.

I also noticed that they said that the restaurants are not necessarily going to open when the countdown clock ends. I assume it it just counting down to the first one, which will open in the season finale.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Frylock said:


> Based on these concepts, I'd hate to see the losing concepts!
> 
> I still think the leaders are Soul Daddy and Spice Coast. It fits the model well, and is something that can be "Americanized" so that it has mass appeal.


I think Soul Daddy is already "Americanized"


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I keep thinking about Sinners and Saints and like the idea of it. I usually lunch with health conscious people. I am not a health conscious eater. This is the ideal place that would serve our purposes perfectly. I'll sometimes go to a health food place with them and have trouble finding something I like (buffalo burger? blech). They don't like going to a burger joint with me unless there are fresh salads available. This concept seems like a nice alternative for us, but nothing she's done so far as really blown me away.

I suppose people eat meatball subs more than occasionally, so I think Saucy Balls has a chance simply based on that. I'm not a fan, but it seems that if it's a good meatball, people would go at least once every week or two.

Harvest Sol doesn't appeal to me at all. Even with the change up, it is probably way too healthy for me.

Grilled cheese boy would probably have me running to his shop if the cheese was uber goopy and melting out of the sandwich. I haven't seen that happen. I've never been to Chipotle, but did they say that his rendering was set up exactly like Chipotles? Maybe he's trying to hard to copy something instead of creating his own thing? I'm also not too sure that I care about the dipping sauces that the judges are pressing on him.

Soul Food is something a few places down here have done. No, they're not chains. They're more like a mini cafeteria style place. Every day features two meats, five or so vegetables, and two desserts. I think this could go somewhere if his food is good.

The Grill people are just kind of annoying to me. I'm not sure I care.

As far as the Indian food guy, I'm one of the people that grant33 is talking about above. I have no idea if I like Indian food or not. I don't like spicy (yeah, I know I'm gonna get kicked out of Texas), saffron doesn't do much for me, so I have no idea how I would find something I might like. If it's going to cost me to trial and error it, I probably won't bother.

I think that covers them all.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

I agree with you on the grilled cheese thing, Monica - I love the concept, but it needs to be /grilled cheese/. I also have NO interest in 'dipping sauces'. It's not a freaking french dip. You don't 'dip' grilled cheese. I'm not sure why Bobby is so hot & heavy on that idea, and so down on the guy for not doing it. Let's have him make a decent grilled cheese and see where that goes.

And Spice Coast is never going to work for me, but that's just me - I've never had Indian food I liked, and I've tried a bunch of different things. Spicy, not spicy, whatever - none of it does anything for me.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JoBeth66 said:


> I agree with you on the grilled cheese thing, Monica - I love the concept, but it needs to be /grilled cheese/. I also have NO interest in 'dipping sauces'. It's not a freaking french dip. You don't 'dip' grilled cheese. I'm not sure why Bobby is so hot & heavy on that idea, and so down on the guy for not doing it. Let's have him make a decent grilled cheese and see where that goes.


Outside of tomato soup for a regular grilled cheese, I've got nothing.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

JoBeth66 said:


> I also have NO interest in 'dipping sauces'. It's not a freaking french dip. You don't 'dip' grilled cheese. I'm not sure why Bobby is so hot & heavy on that idea, and so down on the guy for not doing it. Let's have him make a decent grilled cheese and see where that goes.





jsmeeker said:


> Outside of tomato soup for a regular grilled cheese, I've got nothing.


I thought his point was to do something (dipping sauces) that the average customer could not do at home. Otherwise the Melt Works idea was just a grilled cheese sandwich which _anyone_ could easily make for themselves.

At least that's what I took away from Bobby's comments.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

jradosh said:


> I thought his point was to do something (dipping sauces) that the average customer could not do at home. Otherwise the Melt Works idea was just a grilled cheese sandwich which _anyone_ could easily make for themselves.
> 
> At least that's what I took away from Bobby's comments.


As did I, mostly because he said exactly that. 

I'm glad taco boy went home. He was arrogant and obnoxious.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

The other thing that kind of ticked me off was the way the judges are offering ideas to the contestants. Bobby and Chipotle dude tell Indian cuisine guy that this would work great as a taco - I think they were suggesting that he put the salad on top of the meat, but I'm not sure. Then Curtis and Miami chick come over and complain about the soggy bread and when he explains what Bobby wanted, they say that's a horrible idea.

These guys are trying like mad to impress the "investors" and the investors are all over the map. I understand that all four of them can't bombard the contestants at those tiny stations; perhaps they could refrain from commenting about bug changes to the concept until they can all voice their opinions at once. So Curtis can tell Bobby, in front of the contestant, why he thinks the idea is stupid.

It just seems like a miserable catch 22 to me.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I wish the investors had gone in different groups of 2 to different stations. That might have just gotten different kinds of comments. (Showing all 4 going to each one of them would have been too much.)


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I think I am bizarro JoBeth. I absolutely find the grilled cheese thing a losing proposition. I can make any grilled cheese at home. Easy. On the other hand, I love Indian food and would pay money for it, and all of its incarnations. I make it at home, too, but it is a bit more work than slapping some cheese on some bread and sliding it between the cheeks of my GF grill.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

justen_m said:


> I think I am bizarro JoBeth. I absolutely find the grilled cheese thing a losing proposition. I can make any grilled cheese at home. Easy. On the other hand, I love Indian food and would pay money for it, and all of its incarnations. I make it at home, too, but it is a bit more work than slapping some cheese on some bread and sliding it between the cheeks of my GF grill.


I can make a burger & fries at home, too, very easy. Heck, my butcher will even grind up choice meat for me and make the patties so all I have to do is throw them on the grill! You can even buy the pre-made patties at the grocery store, fresh or frozen. MUCH better than what I can get at Burger King, McDonald's, Wendy's, or even Bobby Flay's. Yet millions and millions of people pay for them at fast food joints, every single day.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

The thing that stands out about the grilled thing at home versus going to his place is that he's going to have a variety of breads and cheeses to choose from that I'm not likely to have at home. It's like when I go to a bread bakery and have a fresh sandwich made... it's special. Sure, I can buy a loaf of four cheese bread and have them slice it, but I can't see myself wanting a dozen grilled cheese sandwiches before the bread goes bad.

Man, I miss our local Eatzi's.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I thought they made the right decision getting rid of Eric. His grill cheese is too one-note. But his inflexibility was his downfall.

I'm probably in the minority, but I like Joey's gangster look. If only the shirt and tie was imprinted on a t-shirt.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I'm not seeing Joey lasting too much longer in the competition. I think he'll be the next to go.

I'm still sticking with what is now Spice Coast as the winner. It's a marketable concept that isn't really found in the fast casual space.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Looks like they all got a bit of sun in that cook-off.


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## henry111 (Apr 4, 2011)

Would have been better if the founder had been there to start them off and show them for the first 15 minutes with customers, not just as a training thing and then left them on their own. Some of them did okay with their duties, but I think the line had too many people working it. Usually there are only 3 servers and a cashier and certainly not one guy in the back with his loud voice urging them on.
toxin foot pads


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

They all got sunburnt, and there's no budget for makeup for these folks? Geez.

I wasn't surprised to see Eric go, but I'm still not getting the hard-on for 'dipping sauces'. You don't DIP grilled cheese - and hey, how are you walking down the street eating your grilled cheese sandwich and dipping it at the same time?

I think it came down to him & Joey last night, and the wrong person went home. But I do believe Joey will be done soon. 

And what was with all the negative comments on the soda marinade for the Grill folks? My goodness, have these people never eaten BBQ? Lots of people use coke or some variant thereof for their marinades.

Eh. There isn't a concept left that I think is going to make it in the long run, but I think they're going to end up putting their money behind Spice Coast. It doesn't appeal to me in the least, but I'm sure it does to some people.

I'm just wondering if it's going to be like the UK's version of Last Restaurant Standing, where they choose a winner and then completely change up the concept in the restaurant they actually award. In other words - they'll back Spice Coast, but then his menu will be decided by them, they'll tone it down to American tastes, and make it 75-80% meat dishes with very little vegetarian only stuff.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

JoBeth66 said:


> I wasn't surprised to see Eric go, but I'm still not getting the hard-on for 'dipping sauces'. You don't DIP grilled cheese - and hey, how are you walking down the street eating your grilled cheese sandwich and dipping it at the same time?


I didn't have any issue with the dipping sauce suggestion and Eric was a fool not to have tried it immediately.

But you highlight a really important problem with this show and the 'investors'... _they are so frickin' inconsistent!!!_ 

They come across as self-important pompous windbags... not professional experts. Of course I suppose IRL investors are often self-important pompous windbags with wildly inconsistent suggestions. But I'd like more from my reality TV hosts please.


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## Gene S (Feb 11, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> I thought they made the right decision getting rid of Eric. His grill cheese is too one-note. But his inflexibility was his downfall.
> 
> I'm probably in the minority, but I like Joey's gangster look. If only the shirt and tie was imprinted on a t-shirt.


These judges are all over the place. They say Joeys concept needs more than meatballs, and Eric needs to only have basic grilled cheese. They told Eric to only make a simple grilled cheese, and the customers hated the simplicity of it.

The beginning of the show, the judges announce what a great opportunity this contest is, because they get a chance to get feedback from customers before a lot of money is put into a business. Then during judging, they ignore that and proclaim, that because they are the investors, he only needs to impress them.

What a bunch of wind bags!

And I'm upset that Curtis Stone is judging the next Top Chef Masters. I lost all sorts of respect of him during this restaurant show. "I don't care what the market research shows, I don't like you because you don't want to listen to me. Waaaa!"

His food was good. That's the bottom line in a restaurant. You can have the best concept, logo, menu choice, dipping sauces, etc.. It doesn't matter if the food tastes like crap.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I didn't have any issue with the dipping sauce suggestion and Eric was a fool not to have tried it immediately.
> 
> But you highlight a really important problem with this show and the 'investors'... _they are so frickin' inconsistent!!!_


That's ticking me off more than anything. Sol chick needs to make a sandwich so people can eat it while they're walking, because they're not going to sit down somewhere or wait until they're back to their offices to eat - but we need to have dipping sauces for the grilled cheese, which can't be used while you're walking, you'd have to sit down and eat it. Which the investors insist people aren't going to be doing.

Yeah, the inconsistency is ridiculous.

And instead of giving these people professional help designing their logos and uniforms and how to do the photos, we're just giving them someone who is going to make what they ask for, they're not giving them constructive criticism of the concepts.



> They come across as self-important pompous windbags... not professional experts. Of course I suppose IRL investors are often self-important pompous windbags with wildly inconsistent suggestions. But I'd like more from my reality TV hosts please.


Totally with you.



Spoiler



I'm actually NOT looking forward to next week's show - the idea of forcing them to do their concepts on food trucks when some of the concepts /really/ don't lend themselves to food trucks sort of has disaster written all over it for some folks.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

uh oh... call the spoiler police on Amy Jo 



I agree about the lack of help with the logos, designs, uniforms, etc. In the real world restaurant owners would hire experts to handle things like that. The ability to design a logo has _nothing_ to do with the ability to conceptualize and run a food chain.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

jradosh said:


> uh oh... call the spoiler police on Amy Jo


Oopsie. Fixed. 



> I agree about the lack of help with the logos, designs, uniforms, etc. In the real world restaurant owners would hire experts to handle things like that. The ability to design a logo has _nothing_ to do with the ability to conceptualize and run a food chain.


Exactly. They understand that these folks may not be able to be their own chefs and brought in professional chefs to help them with that - but we're going to leave them to their own devices on /marketing/??

Yikes.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JoBeth66 said:


> I wasn't surprised to see Eric go, but I'm still not getting the hard-on for 'dipping sauces'. You don't DIP grilled cheese - and hey, how are you walking down the street eating your grilled cheese sandwich and dipping it at the same time?
> 
> I think it came down to him & Joey last night, and the wrong person went home. But I do believe Joey will be done soon.
> 
> And what was with all the negative comments on the soda marinade for the Grill folks? My goodness, have these people never eaten BBQ? Lots of people use coke or some variant thereof for their marinades.


I don't get Bobby's thing for dipping sauces, either. I really don't. But I think he had a valid point about the menu not having a sandwich that wsa just cheese and didn't have meat and other stuff in it.

I won't go on a tangent about BBQ and sauce here since they were doing pulled pork, but the sight of them dumping DIET Coke in there really bothered me. Plus, it seems like they GRILLED the meat, so, IMHO, NOT BBQ. .


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I am going to rank every week based on where I would want to eat at. Here is the list for this week:

Soul Daddy
Spice Coast
Grill Billy's
Harvest Sol
Sinners and Saints
Saucy Balls


I love soul food and I think that market is something that is ready to go mainstream big time. I eat Indian food about once a week, love it and wish there was a "Chipotle" type place I could get Indian food at.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

mwhip said:


> I am going to rank every week based on where I would want to eat at. Here is the list for this week:
> 
> Soul Daddy
> Spice Coast
> ...


You must _really_ like Harvest Sol


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I guess I'm seeing a bit of a different way of looking at this.

I realize the investors sound contradictory, but perhaps they just want at least one option for eating something "on the go" instead of an entire menu of sit down foods. I honestly don't think that's too much to ask. Harvest Sol needed a variable for her salads - she could theoretically put almost any salad in a pita and it would serve this purpose. Much like having dipping sauces could be a "sit down" variable for Meltworks.

I did like that Steve and Curtis were a "team" this go round and were able to duke it out between each other at Spice Coast's booth (re: the handheld versus plate concept).

I honestly don't think they're being unreasonable in their requests. I don't hate them near as much as some of you do (although the chick judge is obnoxious to watch with that eyes wide open look she gets sometimes).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JoBeth66 said:


> I wasn't surprised to see Eric go, but I'm still not getting the hard-on for 'dipping sauces'. You don't DIP grilled cheese - and hey, how are you walking down the street eating your grilled cheese sandwich and dipping it at the same time?
> ...
> And what was with all the negative comments on the soda marinade for the Grill folks? My goodness, have these people never eaten BBQ? Lots of people use coke or some variant thereof for their marinades.


I don't really eat anything while I'm walking around.. French fries while driving is probably the most..

I've heard of soda used like this before, but the weird thing was that they were pouring *diet* cherry coke (with a piece of tape over the coke part) in. I thought that the sugar in regular soda would be one of the major reasons to use it.. (i.e. marinades often have a lot of sugar, I think..)


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

mattack said:


> I don't really eat anything while I'm walking around.. French fries while driving is probably the most..
> 
> I've heard of soda used like this before, but the weird thing was that they were pouring *diet* cherry coke (with a piece of tape over the coke part) in. I thought that the sugar in regular soda would be one of the major reasons to use it.. (i.e. marinades often have a lot of sugar, I think..)


Wasn't Diet Cherry Coke.

It was just plain Diet Coke. They even said later that they didn't use Cherry Cola, but instead added cherry and cherry extracts to the mix.


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## DVC California (Jun 4, 2004)

JoBeth66 said:


> They all got sunburnt, and there's no budget for makeup for these folks? Geez.


They used up the makeup budget on lipstick for the judges. 

I can't believe how red Bobby, Steve (and sometimes Curtis') lips are...they look like they just finished a cherry popsicle.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Squeak said:


> Wasn't Diet Cherry Coke.
> 
> It was just plain Diet Coke. They even said later that they didn't use Cherry Cola, but instead added cherry and cherry extracts to the mix.


Still.. It's a diet cola. WTF?


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

mattack said:


> I don't really eat anything while I'm walking around.. French fries while driving is probably the most..
> 
> I've heard of soda used like this before, but the weird thing was that they were pouring *diet* cherry coke (with a piece of tape over the coke part) in. I thought that the sugar in regular soda would be one of the major reasons to use it.. (i.e. marinades often have a lot of sugar, I think..)


When I was a Scout leader, we used to make a dish called Pepsi Chicken. You put a cut up chicken in a dutch oven, added a can of Pepsi and a bottle of bbq sauce, and cook over the camp fire until the chicken is done. Yummy and easy enough for even young Scouts to do on their own.

I would never use diet soda for cooking, most artificial sweeteners break down when heated, often causing an off flavor.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Squeak said:


> Wasn't Diet Cherry Coke.
> 
> It was just plain Diet Coke. They even said later that they didn't use Cherry Cola, but instead added cherry and cherry extracts to the mix.


OK, I had heard that they added cherries, but I had thought that was in addition to diet cherry coke.. guess not... (enough of the can was covered up, and since I don't drink cherry coke, wasn't sure..)


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

d-dub said:


> When I was a Scout leader, we used to make a dish called Pepsi Chicken. You put a cut up chicken in a dutch oven, added a can of Pepsi and a bottle of bbq sauce, and cook over the camp fire until the chicken is done. Yummy and easy enough for even young Scouts to do on their own.
> 
> I would never use diet soda for cooking, most artificial sweeteners break down when heated, often causing an off flavor.


I don't normally watch the show but caught this one. We cook a decent amount of stuff and substitute splenda for sugar in the recipes and it comes out fine. I think the requirement of coke is the acid breaking down the meat and making it more tender. But hey, I'm not a cook and barely play one at home. I do sort of want to taste their BBQ and the tasters commented how surprised they were at how good it was, so I guess the diet Coke worked out. Maybe they added sugar?


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I wonder why they split the food trucks into two different locations?  Seems to me that it would have been more fair if they were all together.

Those meatballs must be _really, really_ good for that buffoon to still be around. 

I'm getting tired of this show. I doubt it'll be picked up for another season. It was an interesting idea, but in reality it's not panning out. Agree?


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

jradosh said:


> I wonder why they split the food trucks into two different locations?  Seems to me that it would have been more fair if they were all together.
> 
> Those meatballs must be _really, really_ good for that buffoon to still be around.
> 
> I'm getting tired of this show. I doubt it'll be picked up for another season. It was an interesting idea, but in reality it's not panning out. Agree?


he's got great balls.

contrary to you, i'm enjoying this show. my guess is that NBC picks it up, expands it to 2 hours, and makes it unwatchable


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

markymark_ctown said:


> contrary to you, i'm enjoying this show. my guess is that NBC picks it up, expands it to 2 hours, and makes it unwatchable


I also like the show, and fear they will screw with it. If it goes 2 hours, it will be an hour of the current show, and then another hour of Bobby talking about how great Bobby is.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

markymark_ctown said:


> my guess is that NBC picks it up, expands it to 2 hours, and makes it unwatchable


It might depend on how successful the first winner's restaurants are.

Remember, somebody thought "Hulk Hogan's Pastamania!" (a restaurant in the food court of the Great Mall of America that, from what I have heard (apparently, it was open only for a year or so), served pretty much overcharged versions of stuff (e.g. Spaghetti-Os) you can buy in cans) was a good idea at one time, too.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

Jami keeps getting mad at me for yelling at the TV 

So much of the premise of this show is just too silly for words.

Investor: "You didn't do a very good job of managing money."

Me: Yeesh! You gave them $300 to run a business they've never had any experience in (a food truck), and let them run it *for one day*!!! It's not too hard to figure out where the problem is 

They pretty much tell one contestant "dump your chef or you're outta here" in the middle of the competition. I have no idea where she found another chef, but then she was criticized for not controlling the chef after working with him for one day.

I know they're trying to make the show interesting by doing different things, but they keep stressing "you have to be true to yourself and your vision" and then forcing the contestants, in every episode, to do things they'd never do if they were actually running a business.

This show is like a head on collision between Food Network Challenge and Shark Tank. I'm rather disappointed that Bobby Flay has any connection to this show.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

d-dub said:


> Me: Yeesh! You gave them $300 to run a business they've never had any experience in (a food truck), and let them run it *for one day*!!! It's not too hard to figure out where the problem is


And on the slowest day of the week (Sunday). Yeah, wonder why they didn't break even!


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I think it was also unfair because I'm sure they had to invest in staples like spices and such that they won't use all of but will have leftovers for future meals.

I'm still enjoying the show, but I have to continually remind myself that it's a game of sorts and some obstacles are there for the entertainment value and not for someone doing the actual work involved in getting a restaurant up and running.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

A day? I thought they only had 3 hours. I also don't get the point of letting them wrap the truck in awful wraps, AND THEN reviewing them. Why not just review it on the screen and make changes? The show definitely is more concerned with creating "drama" and "exciting tv" than creating a chain that would succeed. Which seems like a bad move IMHO.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Sinners and Saints lady finally gone. One of the judges said they never had any good food from her. A salad topped with brisket is a "saint" dish? WTF? I like Joey. Seriously. Put his truck design was a mess. Good thing the prize isn't running a food truck.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Pretty surprised Grill Billies is gone. They were doing so well. I'm not that familiar with Chipotle. Do they have a kids menu? 'Cause in my opinion Indian cuisine, fast casual or not, should have been eliminated if that's a requisite.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> Pretty surprised Grill Billies is gone. They were doing so well. I'm not that familiar with Chipotle. Do they have a kids menu? 'Cause in my opinion Indian cuisine, fast casual or not, should have been eliminated if that's a requisite.


I'm surprised they got the boot, too. They really turned it around. At the start, they seemed totally clueless.

I don't think Chipotle has a specific kids menu. But maybe it isn't on the menu board? I dunno. In any case, even if they don't, it's not hard to put together a kid friendly meal from what they have there.

I think you may be right about Spice Coast. It's pretty clear that "the investors" want a restaurant that appeals to every single demographic in America.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

I just don't get why Grill Billies went when Spice Coast was /so/ bad. There's just no way to make that mass-market appeal to everyone with his business model. It's clear he doesn't want to do meat, but they're really pushing him - and I think that Bobby wanted to dump him last night, but he got outvoted. Unless he makes an amazing turn-around or someone else screws up royally, I can't see how he lasts past the next week.

And how is what Joey made NOT a hamburger?


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> I don't think Chipotle has a specific kids menu. But maybe it isn't on the menu board? I dunno. In any case, even if they don't, it's not hard to put together a kid friendly meal from what they have there.


I was surprised to hear Steve's comments about Spice Coats not catering to kids as I've never thought Chipotle had anything for kids. This is why we don't eat there as a family. The chicken is too spicy for kids IMO. Unless they can make a cheese quesadilla, they have nothing to offer kids.

*EDIT*
I just looked at the site and they do have a kids menu now. I don't know how long they've had one.


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

They've had the kid's menu for a few years. It's usually just a card near the beginning of the line.

My kids started out on cheese quesadillas, but have now moved to carnitas (pork) tacos because it is the least spicy of the meats Chipolte has.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I'm curious to know what kind of contract the contestants had to sign. If eliminated and they still start a restaurant do the investors still have first right to invest? Share of profit no matter what? Just curious what they had to sign away.

Also heard Chipotle is opening an Asian concept this summer...how does that affect what happens on this show for Steven Ells?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/12/chipotle-idUSN1217925420110412


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

d-dub said:


> Jami keeps getting mad at me for yelling at the TV
> 
> So much of the premise of this show is just too silly for words.
> 
> ...


This. All of this.

I was surprised Grill billies went but they started off rough, got better it seemed and now this.

The thing that really bugs me about this show is that these contestenants have an idea, but not all the experience they need. Did Mr. Chipolte man really know all this stuff before he started? (gosh he bugs me...I have given up eating at his place). Does he or has he run a food truck somewhere? How would his food do in one? I have seen other mexican food trucks, but none that allow the choices his stores do.

I guess I am still interested to see who wins, but it hurts to watch.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

I didn't really get the criticism for Soul Daddy's food not being healthy. It's soul food! Like the guy said, the target audience probably isn't one going to be training for a marathon any time soon. I don't see the meatball company being healthy either regardless of if they use turkey breast based balls or not. At the end of the day, you're slapping cheese, sauce, etc on it and throwing it on a bun. Sort of like a salad with a bucket of ranch.


To me, Flay's daughter seemed a bit full of herself. Either way, I wouldn't really consider her your average kid.


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Did Mr. Chipolte man really know all this stuff before he started? (gosh he bugs me...I have given up eating at his place). Does he or has he run a food truck somewhere? How would his food do in one?


I'm not sure if it was creative editing or not but it looked like Curtis was getting fed up with Steve's constant comparisons to Chipotle.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

I agree that Flay's kid does NOT represent your standard kid. Plus, she's 14. She's not likely to eat off a kid's menu like a 6 year old would. 

I think they dumped Grill Billies not for the concept, but because they were morons. No one had any clue who was in charge. And that didn't seem like it was going to change. I think they just wanted to avoid having to deal with them. 

I think Soul Daddy has to be the frontrunner at this point.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Frylock said:


> I think they dumped Grill Billies not for the concept, but because they were morons. No one had any clue who was in charge. And that didn't seem like it was going to change. I think they just wanted to avoid having to deal with them.


And they contradicted themselves every time they spoke. They are just horrible at communication not wonder their relationship never worked.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

mwhip said:


> Also heard Chipotle is opening an Asian concept this summer...how does that affect what happens on this show for Steven Ells?
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/12/chipotle-idUSN1217925420110412


Hey, it's debuting in DC. I'll definitely check it out.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JoBeth66 said:


> And how is what Joey made NOT a hamburger?


Very slight rationalization.. I think it had marinara sauce ("Grandma's sauce" or whatever
he keeps calling it).

If you can call a 'meatball sub' that, and not a "long hamburger with marinara sauce", he gets a tiny bit of slack.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I couldn't believe that the Grill billies chef was so vocal about not doing this and not doing that and picking the meal. I agree with Tony (the meatball guy?) who said that kabobs are just not what you serve a kid. I was thinking that from the moment the chef suggested it. Sharp sticks. Oh yeah that will go over well. Not. I am surprised it wasn't mentioned to them when the judges were walking around talking to them about their choices and tasting stuff. I also liked that the woman from Grill billies suggested chicken and the chef said no, beef, and then later one of the judges said chicken. I was waiting for her to say "told you so".


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Am I the only one here who is not impressed enough to make the trip to try ANY of the concepts?

Harvest Sol, I still think, would probably be better next to the Lean Cuisine and Healthy Choice options in the grocery store freezer.

Soul Daddy is too much like the BBQ places like Smokey Bones and others (this would apply to Grill Billies too).

Meatballs - Meh

Spice Coast - I grew up with Indian restaurants on every corner (in the UK), but I don't see the great American public going for it.

I love the production values of this show (Same company that produces Top Chef), but I'd be very surprised if any of the ideas become really successful.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Spice Coast - I grew up with Indian restaurants on every corner (in the UK), but I don't see the great American public going for it.


Indian Food? Not likely. But perhaps whatever they turn it into could work out well. After all, they got their wish to turn it into an Indian taco 2 weeks ago. And this week he tried to make a burger and fries. I think that if they did launch this concept, they would launch it as this "Americanized" Indian food, which I don't think will be good.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Soul Daddy is too much like the BBQ places like Smokey Bones and others (this would apply to Grill Billies too).


You have never had good soul food if you are comparing it to Smokey Bones. Soul Food is not just BBQ but also; greens, mac and cheese, pork chops, beef tips, fried chicken, chicken and waffles. And much more. Hit yelp.com and try to find a good place in your area.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mwhip said:


> You have never had good soul food if you are comparing it to Smokey Bones. Soul Food is not just BBQ but also; greens, mac and cheese, pork chops, beef tips, fried chicken, chicken and waffles. And much more. Hit yelp.com and try to find a good place in your area.


Yeah.. Soul food is NOT a synonym for barbecue. So far, I haven't seen anything that Soul Daddy has made that would be BBQ.

For me, I think, Sould Daddy is one concept I would be most interested in. That, and Spice Coast. But I don't have kids, so I really don't know how that plays out. How "kid friendly" a place is is something that really never enters my mind when I eat out.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Yeah.. Soul food is NOT a synonym for barbecue. So far, I haven't seen anything that Soul Daddy has made that would be BBQ.
> 
> For me, I think, Sould Daddy is one concept I would be most interested in. That, and Spice Coast. But I don't have kids, so I really don't know how that plays out. How "kid friendly" a place is is something that really never enters my mind when I eat out.


How many kids won't be there definitely plays into my mind.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I did like what soul daddy did with the waffles and chicken and then even better when they took the advice and cut it in half to put the food in it rather than as a hard to handle sandwich. I am thinking there are others things they could do. I mean, geesh, most places have chicken fingers and fries, mac and cheese and a burger or hot dog on their kid's menus.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mwhip said:


> How many kids won't be there definitely plays into my mind.


apparently, you can't have a large nationwide chain that doesn't appeal to kids.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

The Grill Billies chef was a dick. He turned down grilled chicken fingers and something else because they would dry out. Fast forward to the judges saying the meat was too dry. Not to mention him dropping the food and then acting like a 2 year old and then saying he didn't care when the judges didn't like the food.

Steve Ells annoys the crap out of me. He compares everything to Chipotle, has to make sure everyone knows he founded Chipotle, and many of his comments contradict themselves.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Steve Ells annoys the crap out of me. He compares everything to Chipotle, has to make sure everyone knows he founded Chipotle, and many of his comments contradict themselves.


Maybe that was part of the agreement between him and the producers to get him to do the show. CONSTANTLY remind people he founded Chipotle.

He certainly contradicts himself. he seems to get annoyed when any concept is setup to look anything like Chipotle, then is miffed when someone makes food that isn't something that can be held in the hand.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I assumed the constant use of the phrase "Steve Ells, _founder of Chipotle_" was because otherwise people would be saying "Who the $&#! is that annoying guy?".


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I assumed the constant use of the phrase "Steve Ells, _founder of Chipotle_" was because otherwise people would be saying "Who the $&#! is that annoying guy?".


He's much too emaciated looking for anyone to believe he actually eats, let alone founded a restaurant! He should wear the Chipotle uniform on the show.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

jradosh said:


> I assumed the constant use of the phrase "Steve Ells, _founder of Chipotle_" was because otherwise people would be saying "Who the $&#! is that annoying guy?".


and the chick from miami...still don't know her name. who is she? 

Still can't believe Saucy Balls is in the running. In fact, I think the only reason he's still there is so they can have soundbites like "those are some big balls"


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## CatScratchFever (Apr 14, 2011)

Did the phrase saucy balls get used this last show?


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

My wife and I surmised last night that the "investors" is Chipotle. The constant reference to Chipotle is contractual. The 3 restaurants (all in mall food courts) will be Chipotle's when the winner (soul daddy?) inevitably goes under. I'm still watching, but I hate the hosts. I've never been a fan of Bobby Flay as a tv personality, so it's a sad statement when he's the least annoying of the group. When Lorena acts passionate, her crazy eye's scare me. Curtis is the "hunk" chef of the moment. Since I'm not female or gay, he doesn't offer me anything of value. All of the judges seem to contradict themselves at a prodigious rate. Of the 3 contestants left, I'm rooting for Jamawn. Sundhir (I've been to Vegas many times and been in suites like this) doesn't need it and could probably bankroll his restaurant himself. Mr. Saucy Balls (Joseph) is an annoying jerk who will loose interest in the operation about a week after opening. For Jamawn, this would be a life altering event and from what I've seen, he might fail but he'll go down swinging.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

CatScratchFever said:


> Did the phrase saucy balls get used this last show?


no, just "big balls"

he will always be saucy balls to me...


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## CatScratchFever (Apr 14, 2011)

I like big balls and I don't know . . . .


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Harvest Sol girl finally got the boot. She really didn't know much about what she was doing.


When all of the "investors" were up on the balcony at Ceasars Palace, Steve Ells was the only person who introduced himself using more than JUST his name. "I'm Steve Ells, founder of Chipotle." LOL.. I mean, it's gotta be more than people not knowing the name "Steve Ells". I mean, did that crowd of people know who the woman "investor" was? Maybe they know the name Curtis Stone. They probably know "Bobby Flay". I mean, at least that guy has a place in that building.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

markymark_ctown said:


> no, just "big balls"
> 
> he will always be saucy balls to me...


I thought the quote was something like "that's a lotta balls


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

Sadly, I'm not going to be sorry to see this show done with. Whoever wins isn't going to be around long, IMO, and I don't think any of them really has a viable product. <shrug>


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JoBeth66 said:


> Sadly, I'm not going to be sorry to see this show done with. *Whoever wins isn't going to be around long, IMO,* and I don't think any of them really has a viable product. <shrug>


I bet you are right. I bet that none of these would ever expand beyond the initial three loactions. Are any of them viable on a SMALL scale? Maybe. On a LARGE nationwide 1,000 + location scale? Unlikely.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Harvest Sol girl finally got the boot. She really didn't know much about what she was doing.
> 
> When all of the "investors" were up on the balcony at Ceasars Palace, Steve Ells was the only person who introduced himself using more than JUST his name. "I'm Steve Ells, founder of Chipotle." LOL.. I mean, it's gotta be more than people not knowing the name "Steve Ells". I mean, did that crowd of people know who the woman "investor" was? Maybe they know the name Curtis Stone. They probably know "Bobby Flay". I mean, at least that guy has a place in that building.


Bobby Flay is EVERYWHERE, so I get that he is known. Same with Curtis. He's been on multiple shows and tv ads. But the other 2, no one has any clue who they are.

I wonder if Steve actually introduces himself as 'Steve Ells, Founder of Chipotle" to people on the street. I think he really is pushing for Spice Coast. It seems to fit his model of restaurant, and I think could be successful with the right backing.

Also, did anyone notice that they commented that the meatball wasn't bringing anything new to America? And that Soul Daddy only has gotten better because he has healthy options? When did the show become about serving healthy food, and not about making a successful chain?


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

Frylock said:


> Also, did anyone notice that they commented that the meatball wasn't bringing anything new to America? And that Soul Daddy only has gotten better because he has healthy options? When did the show become about serving healthy food, and not about making a successful chain?


I think (cynical, I know) that they have the plan already for what they want the chain to be, and they're looking for a style/face to put with it - not that they're going to use that person's food, ideas, whatever - they're going to pick a "type" of food, and give it a face, and that's what's going to win.

Joey doesn't fit their mold - there's not much you can do with meatballs besides, well, meatballs.

Spice Coast & Soul Daddy they can completely re-do menus and tweak it to make it fit their pre-conceived notion.

They do this by having Spice Coast tone down the spices & introduce more meat, and by having Soul Daddy make more healthy dishes.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Frylock said:


> Also, did anyone notice that they commented that the meatball wasn't bringing anything new to America? And that Soul Daddy only has gotten better because he has healthy options?* When did the show become about serving healthy food, and not about making a successful chain?*


That's a really good question. They seem to be really obsessed about it. Sometimes, it seems above and beyond everything else when it comes to the actual food. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting healthy food, but is the show "America's Next Great Health Food Restaurant"?


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> That's a really good question. They seem to be really obsessed about it. Sometimes, it seems above and beyond everything else when it comes to the actual food. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting healthy food, but is the show "America's Next Great Health Food Restaurant"?


maybe the "health" aspect is on the of the requirements of the investor syndicate. plus, there is a lot of emphasis on nutrition in fast/casual food now so i believe they are being proactive on this front.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

This show is PURE CRAP where the judges change their views/opinions each episode. If I was a contestant I would tell the judges all to go F off.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I really enjoy the show. Yeah, it's fluff, yeah the Chipotle guy can be annoying.. boo, the girl just got voted off... but it's still entertaining.


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## pops_porter (Sep 27, 2005)

JoBeth66 said:


> I think (cynical, I know) that they have the plan already for what they want the chain to be, and they're looking for a style/face to put with it - not that they're going to use that person's food, ideas, whatever - they're going to pick a "type" of food, and give it a face, and that's what's going to win.


I was thinking the same thing. Flay is also a host of Next Food Network Star, and even though that winner has come up with a 30 min show title, concept etc., when the show first airs the name has changed and other aspects of the food they prepare has changed as well. I could see that happening here.

Whoever wins I'm sure I'll make the two hour drive the Twin Cities in a few weeks for a work meeting and will stop by the MOA to try out the winner's food.


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## Gene S (Feb 11, 2003)

Investor: "So, you have no actual experience running a restaurant, and this little made for tv show doesn't really count, what do you think your greatest weakness will be?"

Entrepreneur: "Umm... I don't really know... because I haven't done this before... so, I have no experience or knowledge of things I might not be prepared for. Isn't that why you are here, to you know.. guide me?"

Investor to other Investors: "I don't like him, I think it's a weakness not to know your weakness!"


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

In other words...

"I have no weakness"

"That's a weakness.. not knowing your weakness"

"OK, that's my weakness... that I don't know my weakness"

"That's a real strength, that you know your weakness"

"Oh... then I have no weakness"

(rinse. lather. repeat.)


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

I think based on the edit, Soul Daddy will probably be the winner. Compare and contrast:

Spice Coast: I've been in suites like this before

Investors: Tell us how this will change your life.
Soul Daddy: It will allow me to support my family


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

pops_porter said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Flay is also a host of Next Food Network Star, and even though that winner has come up with a 30 min show title, concept etc., when the show first airs the name has changed and other aspects of the food they prepare has changed as well. I could see that happening here.
> 
> Whoever wins I'm sure I'll make the two hour drive the Twin Cities in a few weeks for a work meeting and will stop by the MOA to try out the winner's food.


Remember that at the end they say that the countdown clock is not necessarily when the restaurant will open. I imagine they will only open 1 close to the end of the show.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

markymark_ctown said:


> maybe the "health" aspect is on the of the requirements of the investor syndicate. plus, there is a lot of emphasis on nutrition in fast/casual food now so i believe they are being proactive on this front.


That would be fine. But then make that known. That's never been presented as a requirement. They just sort of believe it, but don't voice the need for it. That's what bothered me about it. They liked Soul Daddy for a while, but then decided they didn't because it wasn't healthy. But they never had previously expressed the need for it to be healthy.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Frylock said:


> That would be fine. But then make that known. That's never been presented as a requirement. They just sort of believe it, but don't voice the need for it. That's what bothered me about it. They liked Soul Daddy for a while, but then decided they didn't because it wasn't healthy. But they never had previously expressed the need for it to be healthy.


I totally agree. The "healthy" aspect seemed to come in after a few episodes. I mean, they really liked the idea of the all natural food, but then gave her grief and talked about how it didn't seem like it would work. Then they turn to the others and tell them their food needs to be healthier. I am sorry, I don't go to soul food to be healthy! I go because it tastes good.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

betts4 said:


> I totally agree. The "healthy" aspect seemed to come in after a few episodes. I mean, they really liked the idea of the all natural food, but then gave her grief and talked about how it didn't seem like it would work. Then they turn to the others and tell them their food needs to be healthier. I am sorry, I don't go to soul food to be healthy! I go because it tastes good.


I agree... the sudden shift to a "should be healthy" theme is unexpected and unstated.

However I must say, I'm 100% more likely to go out for soul food if there's a healthy option. So in that way I like Soul Daddy's latest meal choices (the salmon looked really good!).


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I don't think they really EVER stated any specific requirements, other than it is a "fast casual" place.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

JoBeth66 said:


> Sadly, I'm not going to be sorry to see this show done with. Whoever wins isn't going to be around long, IMO, and I don't think any of them really has a viable product. <shrug>


As difficult as it is to open *one* new restaurant and make it successful (which can take years, and even having a big name in the business doesn't guarantee success), the entire premise of taking a person with zero restaurant experience, and having the person open three new restaurants in three different extremely far apart locations with extremely different demographics is just absurd.

If they are serious at all, I can't believe that this "contest" is anything more than trolling for a new concept that an experienced restaurant marketer (Steve Ells/Chipotle) will basically own. The "winner" will be a figurehead at best, and either cash out or get pushed out pretty quickly.

It's a lot like the shark tank model... they have no intention of "investing in an entrepreneur", they just want to buy a business idea, and do that by never agreeing to invest for less than 50% of the business.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> That's a really good question. They seem to be really obsessed about it. Sometimes, it seems above and beyond everything else when it comes to the actual food. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting healthy food, but is the show "America's Next Great Health Food Restaurant"?


I love how they alternate between telling Soul Daddy that the food needs to be more authentic, and that it needs to be healthier. It's no wonder the poor guy is so confused!

Same with Spice Coast... "you have to serve this with the bread like a taco shell, so people can eat it on the run!" "Why are you becoming the Indian Taco Stand? Stay true to your concept!"

Sheesh!


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## stlarenas (Sep 17, 2005)

jradosh said:


> I agree... the sudden shift to a "should be healthy" theme is unexpected and unstated.


Not just healthy. At one point Bobby said something about probably being able to find a "more responsible meatball concept".

What the heck does that mean? And has the theme always had to comply with whatever it is they consider responsible?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

stlarenas said:


> Not just healthy. At one point Bobby said something about probably being able to find a "more responsible meatball concept".
> 
> What the heck does that mean? And has the theme always had to comply with whatever it is they consider responsible?


lol.. a "responsible meatball concept" I think I missed that. Is that his way of saying "no veal in the meatball?"

No.. There were never any stated rules that the concept had to involve better farming/ranching practices. OF course, with the involvement of Steve Ells, founder of Chipotle, it's not *too* surprising he may want to see it. And really, there is nothing wrong with that. But to just sort of spring it on people out of no where one day unfair.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

d-dub said:


> If they are serious at all, I can't believe that this "contest" is anything more than trolling for a new concept that an experienced restaurant marketer (Steve Ells/Chipotle) will basically own. The "winner" will be a figurehead at best, and either cash out or get pushed out pretty quickly.
> 
> It's a lot like the shark tank model... they have no intention of "investing in an entrepreneur", they just want to buy a business idea, and do that by never agreeing to invest for less than 50% of the business.


Do you think the same of "Hell's Kitchen"?

Do you have citations that Shark Tank(*) never goes for less than 50%?

(*) I love Shark Tank. It's just so enjoyable. I wish they'd air a new episode every night!


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## pops_porter (Sep 27, 2005)

Frylock said:


> Remember that at the end they say that the countdown clock is not necessarily when the restaurant will open. I imagine they will only open 1 close to the end of the show.


True, you would think they would open up soon after the show though otherwise people viewing the show will forget about it.

The Minnesota papers are saying there was a job fair last week looking for people to work at this restaurant, no one knows who the winner is, not even the manager.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Frylock said:


> Bobby Flay is EVERYWHERE, so I get that he is known. Same with Curtis. He's been on multiple shows and tv ads. But the other 2, no one has any clue who they are.
> 
> I wonder if Steve actually introduces himself as 'Steve Ells, Founder of Chipotle" to people on the street. I think he really is pushing for Spice Coast. It seems to fit his model of restaurant, and I think could be successful with the right backing.
> ...
> And that Soul Daddy only has gotten better because he has healthy options? When did the show become about serving healthy food, and not about making a successful chain?


Hahaha about Steve Ells. Yeah, he said "founder of Chipotle" right on cue on again.

As for the other folks, I had no idea who they were before this show. I guess I don't watch other food/cooking shows other than Bizarre Foods and Anthony Bourdain. 


jsmeeker said:


> Harvest Sol girl finally got the boot. She really didn't know much about what she was doing.


Agreed about the sudden health food fixation. That was the Korean girl's original concept. Yeah, she totally bombed in this ep, so I was pretty sure she was getting boot. Too bad. She was nice to look at. 


NatasNJ said:


> This show is PURE CRAP where the judges change their views/opinions each episode. If I was a contestant I would tell the judges all to go F off.


Agreed.

I'm rooting for the Indian guy and Soul Daddy.


----------



## pops_porter (Sep 27, 2005)

Wasn't really sure who I wanted to win, but I'm excited to try some new foods whenever I visit Soul Daddy!

For the midwest, it looks like it will open tomorrow at 11AM in the Mall of America on the third floor by Tony Romas.


----------



## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

I was surprised to see that they seem to intend to open all 3 tomorrow. I am interested to see what people have to say about it.

His meat and 3 approach during the soft launch is definitely popular all over the south, so I think it could do well there. Ofcourse, they are not launching it there!


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I liked the Soul Daddy concept. Will be interesting to see how this actually plays out once it opens. Will it succeed and expand?


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Ok, I know who the winner is now from this thread, but right now, the Pacific broadcast has been preempted by Bin Laden coverage. No idea if the ep will be rerun and when.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I wish he would have kept the fried chicken.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

betts4 said:


> I wish he would have kept the fried chicken.


So did Bobby Flay. He got some conflicting information/advice from he investors.

Poor Sudhir He starts with Indian food. They tell him Americans won't know what it is. Make it a taco. He makes tacos and quesadillas and carnitas. Then they investors say he took it too far.


----------



## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> So did Bobby Flay. He got some conflicting information/advice from he investors.
> 
> Poor Sudhir He starts with Indian food. They tell him Americans won't know what it is. Make it a taco. He makes tacos and quesadillas and carnitas. Then they investors say he took it too far.


Ehhh, I think Sudhir lost because he didn't have the passion the Soul Daddy guy did. They just saw him as starting it up, and wanting to walk away. I think the taco approach was a good idea. But I agree with the judges that he took it too far, and made Indian-Mexican dishes, instead of just tweaking the design (i.e. using naan, but laying the food out like a taco).

I tried to get a look at the Soul Daddy menu, but they didn't seem to cover it all. Didn't have a lot of items it seemed. The design wasn't bad. I did notice they dropped the purple, but kept it on the ****s.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Frylock said:


> I did notice they dropped the purple, but kept it on the ****s.


I think they need to see a doctor about that.


----------



## dimented (May 21, 2003)

So this was the last episode right? It would be nice if the did a follow up in a few months to let us know how Soul Daddy's is doing.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I love how the finish product looked NOTHING like the Soul Daddy's vision.  I predict one of the places close by years end.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

dimented said:


> So this was the last episode right? It would be nice if the did a follow up in a few months to let us know how Soul Daddy's is doing.


Yup. that was the final episode.

Can they do ANOTHER season of this?


----------



## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Yup. that was the final episode.
> 
> Can they do ANOTHER season of this?


I could see them doing another season. But ONLY if Soul Daddy survives. Considering they filmed this 10+ months ago (since they said there was 10 months between the end of the show and the opening) it would seem to be a while before another season could air. They would wait, what, 6 months to see how it does. Assuming it was doing well, then film the season, and then wait another 10 months? So 16-24 months from now, they could air a second season? I don't see that happening...


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

This is Soul Daddy's NYC location. Why not Harlem? Those not familiar with this location, it's not too far from ground zero.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> This is Soul Daddy's NYC location. Why not Harlem? Those not familiar with this location, it's not too far from ground zero.


I think they want it in an area that caters to lots of tourists to get a wider corss section of "middle america" The other locations are at the Holylwood and Highland complex in Los Angeles and at the Mall of America in Minneapolis.

The specific locations were almost certainly set/fixed prior to selecting a winner. The cities certainly were.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Why was he not able to see the new restaurant until right before it opens?

Is he not a major owner? Didn't he not already know he won? 

Seems like he should have been working his tail off for the last 10 months making sure the opening was a success, and not just brought in at the last moment.

Unless, of course, he is just a public figurehead and not really running the stores.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Squeak said:


> Why was he not able to see the new restaurant until right before it opens?
> 
> Is he not a major owner? Didn't he not already know he won?
> 
> ...


Looking around on the internet, it seems they shot the whole show 10 months ago. he didn't find out he won until last weekend.

http://www.freep.com/article/201105...erer-wins-America-s-Next-Great-Restaurant-NBC


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

NatasNJ said:


> I love how the finish product looked NOTHING like the Soul Daddy's vision.


That bugged me a bit actually.

I would love to find out that Brooklyn Meatballs went back to the city and opened their own smaller restaurant. I liked the end logo for that. He just had a bad idea about cooking the meatballs fresh and also needed to get a better system for delivery - maybe computer printed instead of hand written. I bet anyone's handwriting could get bad after so many receipts.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Website seems to be up now.

http://www.souldaddyrestaurant.com/

(though google still not returning it when you search for "sould daddy restaurant" )


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Looking around on the internet, it seems they shot the whole show 10 months ago. he didn't find out he won until last weekend.
> 
> http://www.freep.com/article/201105...erer-wins-America-s-Next-Great-Restaurant-NBC


Ok, that makes sense, but still bugs me.

They didn't do the "10 Months Later" slate until *after* they announced the winner. It made it look like they found out right after (or very soon after) the soft opening contest, and not 10 months later.


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

betts4 said:


> That bugged me a bit actually.
> 
> I would love to find out that Brooklyn Meatballs went back to the city and opened their own smaller restaurant. I liked the end logo for that. He just had a bad idea about cooking the meatballs fresh and also needed to get a better system for delivery - maybe computer printed instead of hand written. I bet anyone's handwriting could get bad after so many receipts.


Would be very interesting to see how much of what was created through this process is owned by the guys, and how much is owned by NBC/Investors.

That logo for BMC for instance -- my guess is that he can't use that (or possibly even the name) since it was envisioned during the process of the show.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Squeak said:


> Ok, that makes sense, but still bugs me.
> 
> They didn't do the "10 Months Later" slate until *after* they announced the winner. It made it look like they found out right after (or very soon after) the soft opening contest, and not 10 months later.


YEah.. that was weird how they shot it. Maybe they brought all three finalists back after 10 months to shoot the scene where they announced the winner?


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

More background on the involvement of Chipolte in this whole thing

http://www.footnoted.com/my-big-fat-deal/expanding-the-chipotle-empire/


----------



## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

mattack said:


> Do you think the same of "Hell's Kitchen"?
> 
> Do you have citations that Shark Tank(*) never goes for less than 50%?
> 
> (*) I love Shark Tank. It's just so enjoyable. I wish they'd air a new episode every night!


Hell's Kitchen is a joke. The show is all about creating fake drama for the camera. Many of the contestants have no business being in a kitchen. The prize is mostly fake, there's no way they're going to make someone who has some experience as a line cook but has never run a kitchen be the executive chef of a multi-million dollar fine dining restaurant.

It would have been more accurate to say that the majority of the offers on Shark Tank include a 50%+ share for the investors. It's rare that they are willing to take less than 50%.


----------



## pops_porter (Sep 27, 2005)

jsmeeker said:


> YEah.. that was weird how they shot it. Maybe they brought all three finalists back after 10 months to shoot the scene where they announced the winner?


I had read on a blog that they had filmed three different endings, so no one know the winner until yesterday.

Also an interesting note, on Sudhir's twitter account he said he got the most silver tokens for the final challenge.


----------



## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I'm really glad Soul Daddy won. It's the only concept that I would really want to try. Not sure if it's because he kept talking about gumbo or not, but good gumbo is sometimes hard to find. I still try it almost everywhere, but I only return to those that have the good stuff. His looked pretty darn good. I've had gumbo on my mind since he first served it and made two failed attempts to find a good one. I might have to break down and make my own here soon.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

I really lost interest in this when they stopped letting the contestants manage their own concepts. None of them was fulfilling their vision of a restaurant - they had compromised it to what the judges wanted to see, and then the judges decided which one was most likely to appeal to the middle-Americans that are the target of Chipotle. For weeks and weeks they were all pushed to be more like Chipotle, then when Sudhir finally gave up on his dream altogether and turned his concept into a vaguely Indian/Chipotle combination, (including dropping most of his vegetarian options to concentrate on meat) he got bashed for 'taking it too far'. 

I don't know that I'd watch this again, especially not if Steve Ells (founder of Chipotle) is involved.

And I really wish that Soul Daddy had left his fried chicken on the menu. WTF was the sudden demand that they all be 'healthy'?


----------



## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

I am curious what people think of the place. The menu is small, and it seems it should allow them to easily move a lot of customers through. 

It definitely seems to have a healthier vibe to it. Not sure I would want to eat there though.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

MNoelH said:


> I'm really glad Soul Daddy won. It's the only concept that I would really want to try. Not sure if it's because he kept talking about gumbo or not, but good gumbo is sometimes hard to find. I still try it almost everywhere, but I only return to those that have the good stuff. His looked pretty darn good. I've had gumbo on my mind since he first served it and made two failed attempts to find a good one. I might have to break down and make my own here soon.


Too bad there is no gumbo (or fried chicken) on the menu. Early reviews on Yelp aren't too great. Cold, dry, bland meat, small portions, overpriced. NY, LA, MN.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

JoBeth66 said:


> I really lost interest in this when they stopped letting the contestants manage their own concepts. None of them was fulfilling their vision of a restaurant - they had compromised it to what the judges wanted to see, and then the judges decided which one was most likely to appeal to the middle-Americans that are the target of Chipotle. For weeks and weeks they were all pushed to be more like Chipotle, then when Sudhir finally gave up on his dream altogether and turned his concept into a vaguely Indian/Chipotle combination, (including dropping most of his vegetarian options to concentrate on meat) he got bashed for 'taking it too far'.
> 
> I don't know that I'd watch this again, especially not if Steve Ells (founder of Chipotle) is involved.
> 
> And I really wish that Soul Daddy had left his fried chicken on the menu. WTF was the sudden demand that they all be 'healthy'?


I think the one guy that stayed closest to his concept was Joey "Meatballs". Certainly, from a food aspect. Name changed, for the better. And it looked more professional.. But I don't think he compromised too much.


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

d-dub said:


> Hell's Kitchen is a joke. The show is all about creating fake drama for the camera. Many of the contestants have no business being in a kitchen. The prize is mostly fake, there's no way they're going to make someone who has some experience as a line cook but has never run a kitchen be the executive chef of a multi-million dollar fine dining restaurant.


They don't. They are "titled" something like "head chef", but, from what I have read, the job is pretty much just a glorified sous chef/"marketing face" combination.

(Also, did you know that the Season 7 winner never did get the promised job of being "executive chef" at the London Savoy? Apparently, Britain's recently revised visa laws didn't include her job as an exception to the "you really need to hire from within the UK for this position" rule.)


----------



## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Too bad there is no gumbo (or fried chicken) on the menu. Early reviews on Yelp aren't too great. Cold, dry, bland meat, small portions, overpriced. NY, LA, MN.


Reading the reviews, I think its funny how the redeeming point to most of the bland menu was the sauce. Apparently Bobby Flay and his love of sauces makes sense (and I really wonder if they don't end up adding fried chicken to the menu)


----------



## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

That Don Guy said:


> They don't. They are "titled" something like "head chef", but, from what I have read, the job is pretty much just a glorified sous chef/"marketing face" combination.
> 
> (Also, did you know that the Season 7 winner never did get the promised job of being "executive chef" at the London Savoy? Apparently, Britain's recently revised visa laws didn't include her job as an exception to the "you really need to hire from within the UK for this position" rule.)


The show claims that "the winner will run the new <whatever> restaurant at the prestigious <wherever>". It was pretty clear from the first episode of season one that that was exaggerated.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Apparently, we won't see another season given the news at http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news/...v-no-ordinary-family-off-the-map-726311/9269/.

The poster of http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=469559 also put it on the canceled list.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

makes sense. Can they really attempt to open "the next huge chain" every year?


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

cwerdna said:


> Ok, I know who the winner is now from this thread, but right now, the Pacific broadcast has been preempted by Bin Laden coverage. No idea if the ep will be rerun and when.


It's kind of moot now, but it did air the following Friday on CNBC (just as previous episodes had). (I had thought someone said it would re-air on NBC.. but it never did, at least it didn't show up in the guide data for me.)

Has anybody gone?


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

I just hope no one uses yelp reviews to judge this or any restaurant. Their super secret filtering and questionable ad sales policies have left yelp a totally un trusted shell of what it used to be. If you have been writing reviews for them, you might also want to check if you're being filtered. Having a large percentage of your reviews filtered out with no warning, notification and purposely done in a manner that makes it unnoticeable to the casual writer is not unheard of.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I skimmed the last 20 or so posts of this thread. Is this show over yet? Has the winner been decided? I was excited about this show, but never got past the first episode. I remember the Twin Cities was one of the 3 locations for the new restaurant. So, even though I didn't watch the show, I'd still like to check out the restaurant.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Hoffer said:


> I skimmed the last 20 or so posts of this thread. Is this show over yet? Has the winner been decided? I was excited about this show, but never got past the first episode. I remember the Twin Cities was one of the 3 locations for the new restaurant. So, even though I didn't watch the show, I'd still like to check out the restaurant.


Go check out Soul Daddy at the Mall of America and let us know what you think.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

http://ny.eater.com/archives/2011/06/restaurant_reality_show_winner_soul_daddy_already_closed.php

NY location CLOSED after 1 month!


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Two down, one to go.

Soul Daddy LA Closed.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

From teh LA article 


> Jamawn Woods, the winner of the show, was promised the "prize" of a three-unit restaurant chain. See the intro below in which it's clearly stated that the winner receives "an extraordinary prize" of "three restaurants in three cities":


I guess he got the prize but maybe it didn't stipulate that they would only be open a month.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Makes sense to keep the store open in the heart of soulfood in America!


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

fmowry said:


> Makes sense to keep the store open in the heart of soulfood in America!


Just as much sense as opening the NY store at the Seaport which already has a BBQ/Soulfood type restaurant. Granted, Heartland Brewery is a more expensive, sit down restaurant. But still, they serve essentially the same things, ribs, pulled pork, chicken, collard greens, cornbread, etc. and it's of a much higher quality.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

This wasn't difficult to predict. It made no sense to me from the very beginning to take a person with an idea but zero experience running a restaurant, and get him/her started by opening three locations as far apart as possible in the continental US. It was a recipe for failure (no pun intended!).


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

If the Mall of America one is still open this weekend, maybe I'll finally go check it out.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

One restaurant, in the Great Mall of America?

Boy, that's worked well in the past...


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Do people actually call it the "Great" Mall of America?


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I call it the Pretty Good Mall of America.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Hoffer said:


> If the Mall of America one is still open this weekend, maybe I'll finally go check it out.


Better go soon.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

that's sad that they closed..


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

mattack said:


> that's sad that they closed..


not for me. It validates my opinion that they made the wrong choice in choosing Soul Daddy as the winner.

I wonder who actually has the final say in business operations here. Is it the 'investors', does NBC have a stake, does Jamawn have any real voice? Basically, who was it that decided to kill two businesses within a month of their opening?


----------



## 4inziksych (Mar 1, 2003)

When it became clear early that the investors were basically taking control, then when I saw in the end how totally different the restaurant was from even what the winner had said at the end, I figured that all along this was set up as nothing more than a generic rest that they hoped would become a cash cow from the publicity of the show. Maybe they thought the show would be a huge hit and it would keep people coming in. Was very heavily promoted here in NYC. Kind of sad Flay would be involved in something like that.


----------



## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

WhiskeyTango said:


> not for me. It validates my opinion that they made the wrong choice in choosing Soul Daddy as the winner.
> 
> I wonder who actually has the final say in business operations here. Is it the 'investors', does NBC have a stake, does Jamawn have any real voice? Basically, who was it that decided to kill two businesses within a month of their opening?


I don't think it mattered who won, there's no way a restaurant is going to launch simultaneously in LA, Minneapolis and New York and be successful. The three cities have have vastly different pallets, and are so far apart geographically that there is no way one chef could possibly give each one the attention it would need to be a successful startup.


----------



## CatScratchFever (Apr 14, 2011)

I for one will not waste any of my time watching this should they become delirious and attempt to have another season. The whole thing was a crock.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

CatScratchFever said:


> I for one will not waste any of my time watching this should they become delirious and attempt to have another season. The whole thing was a crock.


+100000


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I think I'm going to go to the mall for lunch today and check out Soul Daddy.


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## pops_porter (Sep 27, 2005)

Hopefully everone that wanted to, made it to MOA to check out Soul Daddy.

Link



> *Soul Daddy closes its final location at MOA*
> The doors at Soul Daddy at the Mall of America closed permanently Tuesday night, bringing to a quick end the "prize" offered as part of the NBC reality show "America's Next Great Restaurant." The MOA location was one of three that was part of the TV competition won by Jamawn Woods of Detroit, a formerly unemployed auto worker who had been catering wings and waffles from his home when he heard about the competition.
> 
> The two other locations (Hollywood and New York City) were closed about two weeks ago,
> ...


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Meanwhile, according to their facebook pages, Joey is working on opening a restaurant and Sudhir suggests something to come next year.


----------



## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

That's too bad.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

was coming to this thread to post the news. I was too late.


----------



## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I feel doubly sad that Jamawn had just put an offer a new house. Did he receive any monetary prize from this show?

Hopefully the offer can be rescinded or there wasn't too much <whatever they call the amount of money paid with an offer which is usually non-refundable - I can't remember if that happens with the initial offer or when the offer is accepted>.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Doh! Oh well. That really is too bad. 

It would've been nice if he succeeded.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I hope they at least give him a pile of money.


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

The whole "We're going to focus on one store" thing was clearly just PR nonsense. I really feel bad for Jamawn, because he really seems like he got jerked around, enough to put an offer on a house in Minnesota JUST so he could focus on that one store, only to have it closed a week later.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Now I _really_ never want to see this show again. What a crock...


----------



## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

I can't say I'm surprised. The plan was flawed from the start.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I never made it to the place at the Mall of America. I just couldn't get motivated to do it.

Too bad to read that the guy was moving to Minnesota and now it's dead. I hope someone at least gives the guy a good amount of cash to make up for it.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

d-dub said:


> I can't say I'm surprised. The plan was flawed from the start.


It's not like they just threw him to the wolves. He wasn't running anything, ANGR Holdings was the company managing the three locations. He didn't even find out about the closings until he got an email after the fact.

Jamawn was to receive one year of management training and then manage one location of his choice. He chose the MoA location. The food just wasn't good enough.

Would you pay $15.02 for this meal? I sure wouldn't.









photo by LuigiNovi


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

you and your fancy, premium, bottled soda complaining about the price?


----------



## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

WhiskeyTango said:


> It's not like they just threw him to the wolves. He wasn't running anything, ANGR Holdings was the company managing the three locations. He didn't even find out about the closings until he got an email after the fact.
> 
> Jamawn was to receive one year of management training and then manage one location of his choice. He chose the MoA location. The food just wasn't good enough.
> 
> ...


That meal was $15? WTF!!!!


----------



## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

What is the yellow stuff? Some kind of corn something or other?


----------



## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

I think it's people.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

WhiskeyTango said:


> It's not like they just threw him to the wolves. He wasn't running anything, ANGR Holdings was the company managing the three locations. He didn't even find out about the closings until he got an email after the fact.
> 
> Jamawn was to receive one year of management training and then manage one location of his choice. He chose the MoA location. The food just wasn't good enough.
> 
> Would you pay $15.02 for this meal? I sure wouldn't.


The issue was opening three restaurants with a totally new concept in three different locations with different regional pallets. Unless they had a complete management team in each location that had the flexibility to make changes to meet the demands of their demographic, it was doomed to failure. It's tough enough to open *one* new restaurant and have a shot at success.

And no, I doubt I would pay $15 for a fast food meal like the one pictured, at least not a second time. That's a pretty meager meal!

I hope Jamawn at least gets the management training at some other restaurant, or at least the cash equivalent. There are probably plenty of KFCs wherever he ends up!


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

jsmeeker said:


> you and your fancy, premium, bottled soda complaining about the price?


I never ate there. That pic is from another customer, it's on SD's wiki page.



Hoffer said:


> What is the yellow stuff? Some kind of corn something or other?


Cheesy Grits.


----------



## 4inziksych (Mar 1, 2003)

mmilton80 said:


> I think it's people.


SOYLENT YELLOW!


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

d-dub said:


> The issue was opening three restaurants with a totally new concept in three different locations with different regional pallets. Unless they had a complete management team in each location that had the flexibility to make changes to meet the demands of their demographic, it was doomed to failure. It's tough enough to open *one* new restaurant and have a shot at success.


Well, I don't necessarily buy into this argument. I can't think of another franchised QSR concept that has varied menus for their region... your Chipotles, Noodles and Company, etc. all have standardized menus across the country, and that's the type of restaurant they were wanting to create.



> And no, I doubt I would pay $15 for a fast food meal like the one pictured, at least not a second time. That's a pretty meager meal!


I agree with this. Either they should have been prepared to sell at a loss to get market penetration, or they should have chosen menu items that could be more easily sold at a higher margin.



> I hope Jamawn at least gets the management training at some other restaurant, or at least the cash equivalent. There are probably plenty of KFCs wherever he ends up!


Since ANGR Holdings is a subsidiary of Chipotle, one would hope he would be offered the chance go through their management training. A goodwill gesture would be to place him in product development at Chipotle, giving him a chance to work with whatever next new restaurant concept they come up with.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jradosh said:


> Now I _really_ never want to see this show again. What a crock...


I think your smiley implies this, but the show wasn't renewed.



d-dub said:


> The issue was opening three restaurants with a totally new concept in three different locations with different regional pallets.


What does a wooden platform have to do with anything?

(ok, joking.. it actually took me a bit to figure out the real spelling of the word you meant -- palate.)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Well, I don't necessarily buy into this argument. I can't think of another franchised QSR concept that has varied menus for their region... your Chipotles, Noodles and Company, etc. all have standardized menus across the country, and that's the type of restaurant they were wanting to create.


Though heck, even McDonalds has varied items around the country. (As I've learned from game shows, spam somethingeruther in Hawaii, and a lobster sandwich or something in the northeast.)


----------



## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

mattack said:


> Though heck, even McDonalds has varied items around the country. (As I've learned from game shows, spam somethingeruther in Hawaii, and a lobster sandwich or something in the northeast.)


True, although those are just the rare addition to the menu... the rest of the menu remains the same.


----------



## DVC California (Jun 4, 2004)

mattack said:


> Though heck, even McDonalds has varied items around the country. (As I've learned from game shows, spam somethingeruther in Hawaii, and a lobster sandwich or something in the northeast.)


Someones been watching *101 Ways to Leave a Game Show*! :up:


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

mattack said:


> I think your smiley implies this, but the show wasn't renewed.


I did not know that. Not surprising though.


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

Well maybe they can take those 3 locations and finally put in SPOLER'S!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

DVC California said:


> Someones been watching *101 Ways to Leave a Game Show*! :up:


Yeah, I guess I saw it there recently, but had read/heard about it earlier (many many years ago -- heck, maybe it was from others on Usenet) too.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

scooterboy said:


> Well maybe they can take those 3 locations and finally put in SPOLER'S!


Put in spoiler's what?


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

d-dub said:


> Put in spoiler's what?


SPOLER'S restaurant, of course. You know, like Chili's, or Applebee's?

And it's not "spoiler's", it's SPOLER'S. Read the thread title , for Pete's sake!'


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I loves me some spolers.


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