# Survivor Finale + Reunion Show (12/14/08)



## zync (Feb 22, 2003)

And here we go!

No surprise on #5, and a great final challenge (house of cards).... anyone else watching this?


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## Rickvz (Sep 5, 2000)

Unbelievable. I thought Bob sealed his fate by refusing to talk with Susie. They didn't show anything to tip off anything.


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## HoosierFan (May 8, 2001)

Wow! A fire starting challenge for a million dollars. Whoever wins will likely win the game.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Sugar needs to work on controlling the water works. Hard to read some members of the jury. Not sure if there is a clear cut favorite among them. If Susie wins, their credibility is shot. Susie did nothing to deserve to be in the final three, imo - and that includes winning those two immunity challenges.


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## zync (Feb 22, 2003)

HoosierFan said:


> Wow! A fire starting challenge for a million dollars. Whoever wins will likely win the game.


Sugar couldn't decide, so she let them challenge each other. But yeah, Bob just won the game with that challenge. OK - we'll see in a little bit.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

I am so glad that the final challenge wasn't another endurance challenge. I think the "card" stacking challenge was a nice change from what we've seen before for final immunity challenges.

I'm also glad that they had a tie going into the final vote. I wonder whether the remaining players decided in advance to do it that way to leave the choice between Bob and Matty as a challenge between the two of them.


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## zync (Feb 22, 2003)

Yay Bob!


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

w00t!


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Yahooo!! Bob! That jury had me worried there for a second.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

How in the hell did Susie get three votes? That is one F'd up Jury. 

Understand this you losers. Every single one of the people in the final three kicked you asses. How do you think they're bad cause they could do it to you before you did it to them.

Second best winner so far.

BTW, Sugar is fine as hell.


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## ireland967 (Feb 27, 2003)

Very exciting ending, one of the best finales I can remember. I'm suprised it was so close.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Well, that is a decent result. Bob winning is fine. But I think once he made it to the F3, he was a cinch for the win.

I think Sugar could have earned herself some votes with a much better Final TC. She was horrible. Matty was basically asking her to apologize and she didn't! She lost Matty's vote right there. 

But, IMHO, it is a travesty that Susie got three votes and Sugar got none. Sugar played the game harder than anyone else out there. She deserved to in the F3, and should have gotten some votes.

It seems the producers like casting the "hot-headed" people like Randy, Ace, and Corrine. But in the process they are getting self-rightous people that vote out of spite and not on gamesmanship. In the end we either get the "nice" guy or the "hanger-on"


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

oh, and Randy is a borderline lunatic. He last words in the voting box confirmed that. There is nothing to be gained from continuing in the "I'm crazy" character. Unless it isn't a character.

As for Mr. Video Game. He really needs to think about that deal he made with Bob. I would have done exactly what Bob did if I had been in his shoes. Make the deal with the understanding that if I win you get the necklace. Before that happens, find out when I give you the necklace, you're gonna vote for me and he has the nerve to say that's what he expected. He should stick to being Pong Champion.

Of course, Sugar only has Sugar to blame for Bob winning. If she had just written his name down in that next to last vote, it might have been a toss up between Sugar and Matty.


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

Yay Bob!

I'm very happy with this result. 

deb


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

And Corinne is the new Sue Hawks. Love Sugar, hate sugar. What she said was uncalled for and makes her look like a complete jackass. I think she may be more of loon than Randy and that takes some work.


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

Susie got her votes because Kenny and company didn't want to vote for Bob and wouldn't vote for Sugar.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> And Corinne is the new Sue Hawks. Love Sugar, hate sugar. What she said was uncalled for and makes her look like a complete jackass. I think she may be more of loon than Randy and that takes some work.


God help whoever ends up with her...She says that being nice is not a personality trait? Yeah right....Good for Sugar for flipping her the bird when she made that totally uncalled for comment about Sugar's father. Sugar answered all the final TC questions the way I wish they all would, you guys are are there and I am here because I am better than you.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I'm so glad that Bob won....though I would have accepted Sugar. I can't imagine that anyone wanted to give it to Susie...

EDIT: I love Randy's scowls at the reunion...

...oh, and Susie mentioned at tribal that she knew that Crystal was an Olympic champion?!?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Corrine's heart is three shades of black


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

When Professor Awesome was practicing firemaking I almost fell off my couch laughing.


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## magaggie (Apr 9, 2002)

Demandred and I, whenever the subject of Corinne come up, just say over and over, "God, what a *****." "Yeah, seriously, what a *****." "I know, right, what a *****."

Really nothing else to say.

And I feel disappointed for Sugar. She really didn't have a chance against either of them, simply because she played the game harder and was consequently disliked for it. She was definitely my favorite.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> When Professor Awesome was practicing firemaking I almost fell off my couch laughing.


What was so funny about that?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i think it was obvious that sugar pretty much just wanted bob to have the money. Her heart wasnt into it at all this ep. She even admitted she would be surprised for a few people to vote for her. I like the directness esp. the finger at corrine. 

we need a separate poll because id love to know who really likes her and how she acted. Of course, when i watch this game it really puts your own life in perspective and you are thankfully you arent like these idiots on tv. Even if i WAS like randy or her, i would know to keep it inside during the game and reunion. But somehow they get off on letting people know otherwise.

i liken corrine to a girl in high school who plans the entire year for 'getting back at' the girl who snipped her hair during the pep rally. Just lets things fester all year to say her 'piece' and us unswaying from it even though she has to know it would make her look like an idiot to anyone. I can maaaybe see all she said during the gameplay as being emotion but when you have time to think and can say anything in the world about someone and spew that at final council, you are just an attention whore. Plain and simple. 

Randy belongs on something like celebrity fit club or the one where all the washed up stars live in a house together for a few weeks. Would make great tv

2 pts to sugar for enabling dad to get the final. That sure made her look good all the way until the end. Except that horrible make up! Geez they look so much better during the game than pasty face tonight

Did they allow cleanup before final tribal? The girls looked 'better' and that's a relative term. Just looked more made up and even shampooed. Ick blue eyeshadow. 

Nice job getting everyone in on the reunion show even though some were rather forced. Love the popeye's comment! 2pts for honesty..poor boy was starving. But they didnt mention him 'quitting' and i guess they didnt wanna draw attention to it.

Matty always has a certain 'dress' like he belongs in logans run movies or something. 

I wonder what kind of math problem the prof will make out of building a tower


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

YAY BOB!!!!!!!!

Best quote - Jeff at the maze challenge -

"There is Sugar squeezing that booty through"

and how many people said to Sugar "Is that all you got" at a million dollar challenge? It seemed like she sunk herself by not responding better.

Maybe she didn't care because she was still going to get a good chunk of money anyway. She did do a good job of playing people off of each other to swing votes.



IJustLikeTivo said:


> And Corinne is the new Sue Hawks.


That is immediately what I thought of. Well, I couldn't remember the name, I just remember the Snake comment.
(was it a snake? something like that?)



Rob Helmerichs said:


> When Professor Awesome was practicing firemaking I almost fell off my couch laughing.


I loved it! That was a really really smart move on his part. I loved Jeff's comment to the audience (and us) "Go to REI and get some flint and practice"

Did it seem like there were more mental and less physical challenges in this last half of the game? More throw the ball and complete the puzzle the first and such like that?


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

The winner should not get the fan vote prize, it should go to who did not win.

Poor Surgar, everyone was where there were because of Surgar's good heart as strategic moves. She controlled the game and made sure the best people made it to the end, rather then who she thought she could beat. She knew she knew she had no chance so made sure Bob and Mannie duked it out mano-o-mano in the tie breaker. A great compromise. 

Jeff said it, if you get picked for survivor, go to REI and get a flint and learn how to make fire. I'd also hire a personal survivalist and survivor psychologist to develop a strategy - plus pork out as much as I could before day one. I'd also wear survival garments and about 10 pairs of underwear to to the first day I am leaving for survivor. (unless they just pull them out of there work place with no notice.

I think surgar will go far in life. She can blog for me anyday as an inspirational poster. I could make her a million as I am sure someone will. Corrine, thinks being evil is good, if feel for the poor guy that ends up with her one day. ugh. Randy is nuts but corrine is just pure evil.

Floaters deserve no vote. Suzie just got the anti surgar vote since she out played them all then was too honest in the TC.

Bob, just came out and said it, "I deserve to win".

Sorry for the brain dump and typos


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

Why did you quote me if you weren't addressing my question?


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

I didn't understand Charlies question to Bob on cuddling. Was he asking Bob if he was comfortable with gays?

Sugar definitely got the benefit of editing IMHO. She played a good social game but got no votes. That tells me she so horrible to be around camp that the jury couldn't see past it.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Ment said:


> [Sugar] played a good social game but got no votes. That tells me she so horrible to be around camp that the jury couldn't see past it.


Some probably didn't like her from camp (Randy, Corinne), but others probably felt betrayed...


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

KyleLC said:


> Why did you quote me if you weren't addressing my question?


wrong button


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Johnny Dancing said:


> [Sugar] knew she knew she had no chance so made sure Bob and Mannie duked it out mano-o-mano in the tie breaker. A great compromise.


Yeah, I think that was a great way to settle it, but also indicative of how she's played the entire season. She has changed her mind all the time, completely unable to have a mind of her own - it was only fitting that in the end she managed to choose not to choose.



crazywater said:


> Sugar answered all the final TC questions the way I wish they all would, you guys are are there and I am here because I am better than you.


That's not the way to win, but yeah, that's the truth. And I am SO TIRED of jury members who keep harping about being deceived. Newsflash: you CAN NOT win this game without deceiving some people. It's not a flaw, it's a strength. That's why YOU sit on the jury, and THEY are about to win a million bucks. And besides, all of you did the exact same thing to get ahead.



Sirius Black said:


> oh, and Randy is a borderline lunatic. He last words in the voting box confirmed that. There is nothing to be gained from continuing in the "I'm crazy" character. Unless it isn't a character.


I think you can cross out "borderline", seriously. He is not completely right in the head, based on what they've shown, and based on his appearance in the reunion.

Corrine is just depressingly immature. I'm sure she'll live a decent life as a trophy wife to someone who can't stand her.

I think the reason Charlie is friends with them is that it makes him look better in comparison.


Ment said:


> I didn't understand Charlies question to Bob on cuddling. Was he asking Bob if he was comfortable with gays?


I guess so. I wonder if Marcus is? 



Ment said:


> Sugar definitely got the benefit of editing IMHO. She played a good social game but got no votes. That tells me she so horrible to be around camp that the jury couldn't see past it.


Yeah, I can't think of any other reason either. I was a bit surprised that nobody brought up her TEN days in Exile Island as a negative for her - based on that alone, I feel less inclined to give her the money, even though it was through no fault of her own.

But of course, as she herself pointed out, she pretty much had a hand in booting every person on the jury. That does not build a solid foundation for votes in the final TC.

I'm VERY happy with the winner, have hoped for a long time he would win, but I wanted Matty and Kenny in the final with him. Apparently though, if Matty had been there he would have won, so I guess for me it was better that the jury was like it was.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Did anyone else hear Randy say "they can kiss my ass" after the final vote was read and people were scrambling around the stage? The audio blanked out for a second after that.

I can't believe what an ass that guy is. The idiot look on his face when Jeff said the idol was fake was the best moment of the season. The only thing that would have topped it is if Corrine would have graced us with that look at some point. I can't believe she thinks being mean is a positive trait.


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## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

WTG Bob 

i was suprised he didn't do a little better at the house of cards challenge.

boy was susie frowning when Sugar tied the vote up and gave bob a chance to get into the final 3.

So Brazil is next coming up in Feb 2009. I hope they go back to having 2 finalist.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

I was rooting for Bob or Sugar (although I knew she had no shot).

I agree with the comment that the 100K fan prize should not go to the winner of the show, and it was kind of a dick move on Probst's part the way he made it sound like Sugar had won and then announced it was Bob.

I also was kind of expecting that Bob might offer for the fan prize to go to Sugar - since he only made the final 3 because of her.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I'm VERY happy with the winner, have hoped for a long time he would win, but I wanted Matty and Kenny in the final with him. Apparently though, if Matty had been there he would have won, so I guess for me it was better that the jury was like it was.


Maybe I'm wrong, but are you basing that theory on the poll that Jeff took on the reunion show? I got the impression that Jeff was asking them if, instead of Bob winning the tiebreaker, Matty won it, who would have voted for Matty. In other words only one of them would have been in the final three and in that case everybody said they would prefer Matty over Susie or Sugar.

I think if both Matty and Bob were in the final three Bob would have still won.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

danielhart said:


> I also was kind of expecting that Bob might offer for the fan prize to go to Sugar - since he only made the final 3 because of her.


It would be cool for him to do something for Sugar since she pretty much handed him the victory, but I don't think it would have been wise for him to say so at the reunion. It's probably against the "no sharing the prize" rule anyway.


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## DeludedBuzz (Dec 6, 2001)

I'm surprised people think Sugar play'd a good game. She didn't really play a game other than be pulled around by her heart strings. I'd reckon her to be more like an unpredictable force of nature than a player of the game. That said if it Matty had won the challenge, she would have deserved to win the million dollars over Matty and Susie. 

Speaking of Susie, why are people surprised she got votes? She won two immunity challenges. How many did Matty win? Matty had no effect in the scheming of the game as well. Although I liked Matty, I think its worse to go into the game with an advantage and come up so short, at least Susie had an excuse.

Corrine, wow you might say its editing, but wow, she has to be the worst and evil-ist person ever on survivor.

Marcus at the tribal council. Wow, you form your little clique, expect Susie to kowtow along and accept her place on the bottom of the totem pole and then question her character for voting you out? The hubris of some people.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Poor Surgar, everyone was where there were because of Surgar's good heart as strategic moves. She controlled the game and made sure the best people made it to the end, rather then who she thought she could beat. She knew she knew she had no chance so made sure Bob and Mannie duked it out mano-o-mano in the tie breaker. A great compromise.
> 
> Jeff said it, if you get picked for survivor, go to REI and get a flint and learn how to make fire. I'd also hire a personal survivalist and survivor psychologist to develop a strategy - plus pork out as much as I could before day one. I'd also wear survival garments and about 10 pairs of underwear to to the first day I am leaving for survivor. (unless they just pull them out of there work place with no notice.
> 
> I think surgar will go far in life. She can blog for me anyday as an inspirational poster. I could make her a million as I am sure someone will. Corrine, thinks being evil is good, if feel for the poor guy that ends up with her one day. ugh. Randy is nuts but corrine is just pure evil.


Sugar's standing went way up IMO.


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

I am glad Bob won, but I thought he did a poor job of answering questions at TC. He should have called Kenny out more for Kenny's lying when Kenny got Crystal to vote for Corrine when they thought she had the HII. Bob also should have mentioned how he made the second fake HII when questioned how he made strategic moves. That move alone broke up Kenny's alliance.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

brianric said:


> Sugar's standing went way up IMO.


And she looked damn fine!


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## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

Sugar is hotter than hell! I think she looks even better without makeup though. 

I told my wife that if Susie won, I'd never watch Survivor again. It almost happened.

My thoughts on Randy and Corrine...they are characters. This show (and other reality shows) have been on long enough that it's well know you have a good chance at fame and future work in "Hollywood" if you are the evil character.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

KyleLC said:


> What was so funny about that?


Because A) it was SO Professor Awesome, and B) the fact they were making such a big deal out of it made me think he was going to win...which made me very happy, since there should have been no way.

Looking back, I don't think Sugar's problem is that she is an idiot; I think it's that she's just a nice person who was trying to play the game but was really lousy at it.

OK, looking back, she's also kind of an idiot. When Matty was practically telling her how to win his vote, it sailed right over her head. But she's a sweet idiot.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

So is sugar the only person never to have their name written down the whole season then not win? 

I do hope bob helps her out since she's 100&#37; responsible for getting him to the final. At that moment i knew she wanted him to win over her.

I'm glad jeff spent so much time calling corrine out except it gave her what she wanted..more attention.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I'm still shaking my head that Bob was so horrible at the 'house of cards' challenge. When they first described the challenge I thought it was another one custom-built for Bob to win. 


IMO, the best line of the night was early on in the episode. Kenny says to Bob something like "if you win the II this time can I have it" to which Bob replies "Why don't you get your own idol" 

Best visual of the night (besides Sugar) was Bob in his tribal war get-up. OMG 


Yay Bob :up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jradosh said:


> Best visual of the night (besides Sugar) was Bob in his tribal war get-up. OMG


"You look like one of the Village People!"


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

I'm surprised they made no mention of Sugar's wedding at the reunion show.

http://www.survivor.com/17/gabon/20...-gabon-contestant-jessica-kipers-wedding.html


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

When the house of cards challenge came up instead of an endurance type challenge, that Bob had it locked up. Susie came up big and deserved to get some votes in the final tribal.

By the way, Kelly in season 1 did not get a single vote against her all season and lost to Hatch in another final tribal with a shrew spewing venom.

I did not like Sugar this season. At first she seemed like a well meaning ditz that was in over her head. Then she seemed to understand a little better but gets manipulated... a lot. Then she seemed to get it to the point of being cocky and thinking she was in some sort of control. In the end she back-stabbed anyone that helped her except Bob. She didn't deserve a vote.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

newsposter said:


> So is sugar the only person never to have their name written down the whole season then not win?
> 
> I do hope bob helps her out since she's 100% responsible for getting him to the final. At that moment i knew she wanted him to win over her.
> 
> I'm glad jeff spent so much time calling corrine out except it gave her what she wanted..more attention.


Thinking about it, is Sugar the only person on Survivor to NEVER have their name written down period? I can't remember anyone getting to the finals, and not winning, that did not at least get some votes during the season. That is a very unique result.


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## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

It seems like every year there is a contestant who lies to people and goes back on his/her word, then when it happens to them, they b*tch about "integrity" and hold a grudge at the final TC. This year's hypocrite was Kenny.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TheDewAddict said:


> It seems like every year there is a contestant who lies to people and goes back on his/her word, then when it happens to them, they b*tch about "integrity" and hold a grudge at the final TC. This year's hypocrite was Kenny.


Yes, I can not believe he kept going on about how Bob broke his promise about the Immunity Idol. Kenny was about to stab him in the back, why would Bob keep his promise when it meant he would surely be betrayed? Sometimes the thinking of the contestants is pretty warped...


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

danielhart said:


> I agree with the comment that the 100K fan prize should not go to the winner of the show, and it was kind of a dick move on Probst's part the way he made it sound like Sugar had won and then announced it was Bob.


The group I was watching with thought that Jeff was very mean for the way he did that. I also agree that the winner shouldn't be eligible to get the popularity prize.



jradosh said:


> I'm still shaking my head that Bob was so horrible at the 'house of cards' challenge. When they first described the challenge I thought it was another one custom-built for Bob to win.


I also figured Bob would excel at this challenge. Make a nice big base and reduce the size every 5 levels or so. Of course they were under pressure to get it done ...



TheDewAddict said:


> It seems like every year there is a contestant who lies to people and goes back on his/her word, then when it happens to them, they b*tch about "integrity" and hold a grudge at the final TC. This year's hypocrite was Kenny.


I was amazed when Kenny actually said that Bob sould have 'sacrificed' himself to keep the bargain. Geez what an idiot.

I thought Bob should have said something about winning * 5, count 'em 5* immunity challenges in a row when asked why he deserved to be there. And the fake idols were definitley good answers to the strategic moves questions.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

loubob57 said:


> The group I was watching with thought that Jeff was very mean for the way he did that. I also agree that the winner shouldn't be eligible to get the popularity prize.
> 
> I also figured Bob would excel at this challenge. Make a nice big base and reduce the size every 5 levels or so. Of course they were under pressure to get it done ...


With the number of tiles they had, they could have just made stacks of tiles and been close to 10 feet.

BTW, I was stunned at how badly Bob did at that.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

I fully understand the hate they had for Sugar. Imagine having to spend every waking moment with a woman that is constantly crying. It is already a tough situation. Sure you have sympathy for her, but JC on a stick. It would grate on your nerves. Yes Corrine was over the top, but even Marcus has something to say about it.

She was an emotional basket case. 

Sure you father is dad, sorry. At some point you just gotta suck it up.

Go Bob!!! I was very happy for him on both awards.


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## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> With the number of tiles they had, they could have just made stacks of tiles and been close to 10 feet.
> 
> BTW, I was stunned at how badly Bob did at that.


Nah, they had all the tiles stacked on the side for the contestants, and based on the small stacks, I'd say putting them all into 1 stack would only reach 4 or 5 feet.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I'm still trying to figure out Randy. Is he really that bitter of a person or just trying to be funny? He said he was not trying to be funny and that he is just like that but the whole thing felt like a joke. 

The whole best friend is a dog bit was actually kinda creepy. Not that he has and loves his dog, but that it seems like that's his only friend. And that he brought a bunch of people to the reunion who didn't even know him. Although kinda cool that he brought fans of the show who really wanted to see it.

I just don't know what to think about the guy.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

TheDewAddict said:


> Nah, they had all the tiles stacked on the side for the contestants, and based on the small stacks, I'd say putting them all into 1 stack would only reach 4 or 5 feet.


Plus which I'm sure there were rules against that. I'm amazed at how skinny those towers of cards were that Sugar was building. We kept yelling at Suzie when she was thinking of adding tiles at the end.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Did Randy really expect us to beleive he actually had friends in HS and college?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

how many times did Suzie say she was shocked that she won the last immunity? 100 times? 200?

then she was shocked when Bob told her to shut it 

it never ceases to amaze me how many votes some people (Suzie) gets in the end...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

loubob57 said:


> We kept yelling at Suzie when she was thinking of adding tiles at the end.


Oh me too! She kept almost doing it and I was like no no, just wait! I would rather she had won then Sugar. It seemed like it was an awful long last minute!

I did love Bob's face when Sugar said "we make it a tie" and he then promptly went out and practiced firemaking. He had done his homework! :up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> it never ceases to amaze me how many votes some people (Suzie) gets in the end...


Yeah, I suspect Bob must have pissed people off in ways we never saw.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

betts4 said:


> I would rather [Susie] had won then Sugar.


How can you say that?


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

montag said:


> I told my wife that if Susie won, I'd never watch Survivor again. It almost happened.


We had the same exact conversation. As Jeff was reading the votes I kept thinking they are complete idiots. I was shocked how bitter people can be over losing a game. As most have said, they were better than you at playing the game. They thought of a way to get rid of you before you could get rid of them. Don't be bitter, just say good game and vote for who played it the best.



montag said:


> My thoughts on Randy and Corrine...they are characters. This show (and other reality shows) have been on long enough that it's well know you have a good chance at fame and future work in "Hollywood" if you are the evil character.


Randy has some serious issues, but I think Corrine was trying to make a name for herself and make herself famous. Glad to see Jeff cut her off and not go back to her when she started talking about "her edit". I hope the Omarosa train has run it course and no one wants to see her on TV again.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

TheDewAddict said:


> Nah, they had all the tiles stacked on the side for the contestants, and based on the small stacks, I'd say putting them all into 1 stack would only reach 4 or 5 feet.


The stacks were at least 1-1.5 feet high and there were at least 4 stacks.

Beside 4 -5 feet would have been close to the winner if susie had failed. Matty was 6 feet give or take. Alternately, stack most to 4-5 feet then build with the remainder could also work.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I was hoping after randy's ass comment they kicked him off the reunion show but that was too good to be true. Knew that they had fodder coming from him during the show. 

So no one else noticed the girls "made up" at final tribal? Maybe i need new eyes


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Johnny Dancing said:


> Jeff said it, if you get picked for survivor, go to REI and get a flint and learn how to make fire. I'd also hire a personal survivalist and survivor psychologist to develop a strategy - plus pork out as much as I could before day one. I'd also wear survival garments and about 10 pairs of underwear to to the first day I am leaving for survivor. (unless they just pull them out of there work place with no notice.


Everyone says what they would do if they were chosen to be on the show. In reality, you only have a couple of days notice, so there isn't time to do much. In addition, the players don't get to choose the clothes they are wearing when the game starts, and they can't have extra layers of clothes underneath, etc. The production staff chooses what they will be wearing to create the best "look." Anyone who thinks people are stupid for wearing their suit, or not taking the right gear need to read a little more about the game.


MegaHertz67 said:


> When the house of cards challenge came up instead of an endurance type challenge, that Bob had it locked up. Susie came up big and deserved to get some votes in the final tribal.
> 
> I did not like Sugar this season. At first she seemed like a well meaning ditz that was in over her head. Then she seemed to understand a little better but gets manipulated... a lot. Then she seemed to get it to the point of being cocky and thinking she was in some sort of control. In the end she back-stabbed anyone that helped her except Bob. She didn't deserve a vote.


I agree about Bob. Thought he would crush the others at the house of cards challenge. But it looked to me like he was overthinking it, trying to get a strong base. That's what you'd do if you were an engineer and had months to plan a solid tower. But when you only have thirty minutes, you simply go up and hope for the best.

I also agree about Sugar. Didn't really like her much at all. Was pleased that she turned on Kenny/Crystal last week and was even more pleased that she allowed Bob to get into the finals. I suspect that she knew either Bob or Matty would win with the jury and decided she wanted Bob to have a chance.

Can't figure out the people who thought Sugar looked hot at the reunion. I thought she looked horrible. But then again, I never found her to be very attractive during the rest of the season.

And I must be one of the few that really liked Randy and Corinne. I thought they were very entertaining.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Can't figure out the people who thought Sugar looked hot at the reunion. I thought she looked horrible.


I thought she looked good at the reunion, but looked better at the final tribal. It seemed like she gained some weight back...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> I thought she looked good at the reunion, but looked better at the final tribal. It seemed like she gained some weight back...


It wasn't the weight for me. It was the make up and the ridiculous hairdo. But like I said, I never found her to be very attractive. IMO she was probably 5th or 6th hottest of the girls on this season.


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

Hooray for Bob! I would have been just as happy had it been Sugar though. I really didn't have anything against Susie, either but when Bob won and I flew out of my chair, I realized he was my favorite after all. I got a bit tired of Susie's line about wanting to prove to her son and students that they had to "try". Seemed like a ploy for votes for the sake of the children. She really should have come up with something better.

Corinne, yeah, well, ummmm . . . 

Kenny, It's hard to believe that he really thinks anybody would be stupid enough to give him the II so he could vote them out. His own arrogance did him in.

Sugar did the best thing she could have under the circumstances. And she knew she didn't stand a chance at winning so she just threw honesty at them. I don't know why she didn't tell Matty she voted as she did so he and Bob could each have a shot at it, as I think that's what she was doing.

Randy, oh, Randy. What to think. I wouldn't want him as a neighbor, or co-worker or even in my town but I feel a bit sorry for him. I think his bitterness is genuine but he ramped it up a bit and at the finale he smirked from time to time, almost turnng it into a comic routine. Maybe started to think he could turn his nastiness into a plus. Unfortunately, he's no Don Rickles. Perhaps nice of him to bring fans but I truly wonder if he HAS six friends to invite. 

I loved how Bob scavenged bits and pieces all along and then snagged some beads as he was sent off to - what's it called? Isolation Island? They didn't show that but maybe they didn't catch it on film.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> And I must be one of the few that really liked Randy and Corinne. I thought they were very entertaining.


I think that only you, Randy and Corinne share that opinion.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> It wasn't the weight for me. It was the make up and the ridiculous hairdo. But like I said, I never found her to be very attractive. IMO she was probably 5th or 6th hottest of the girls on this season.


I thought she looked sensational in a 40s movie starlet way. Not somebody I'd want to hang out with, but great on a red carpet.


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

newsposter said:


> So no one else noticed the girls "made up" at final tribal? Maybe i need new eyes


I don't understand why this surprised you. They were back in "civilization", had a chance to fix their hair, wear makeup, dress nicely. Why wouldn't they? Did you think they would show up exactly as we left them?


----------



## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> And I must be one of the few that really liked Randy and Corinne. I thought they were very entertaining.


I thought they were entertaining, but I sure don't 'like' them. At least Kenny admitted that his downfall was being arrogant and didn't blame it on Bob at the reunion show. At final TC he was still hung up on that deal that didn't go his way, but I guess he reflected on it since then.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> With the number of tiles they had, they could have just made stacks of tiles and been close to 10 feet.
> 
> BTW, I was stunned at how badly Bob did at that.





IJustLikeTivo said:


> The stacks were at least 1-1.5 feet high and there were at least 4 stacks.
> 
> Beside 4 -5 feet would have been close to the winner if susie had failed. Matty was 6 feet give or take. Alternately, stack most to 4-5 feet then build with the remainder could also work.


Maybe it was editing, but it seemed like nobody...nobody....looked at the various shaped sample towers that we placed around the challenge area. Some of them looked liked they would have been very sturdy......


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wendiness1 said:


> I don't understand why this surprised you. They were back in "civilization", had a chance to fix their hair, wear makeup, dress nicely. Why wouldn't they? Did you think they would show up exactly as we left them?


I think he was referring to the fact that there is a lot less discussion of their "new looks" this time than in past seasons...


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> It wasn't the weight for me. It was the make up and the ridiculous hairdo. But like I said, I never found her to be very attractive. IMO she was probably 5th or 6th hottest of the girls on this season.


I thought she looked good on the reunion with the make-up.

Watching the reunion I had no clue who all those hot women were. Man you really forget the people voted off early.


----------



## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

jlb said:


> Maybe it was editing, but it seemed like nobody...nobody....looked at the various shaped sample towers that we placed around the challenge area. Some of them looked liked they would have been very sturdy......


I wondered about that. That's the first thing I would have done - check the sample. (Do you work on the show?)


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## MauriAnne (Sep 21, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think he was referring to the fact that there is a lot less discussion of their "new looks" this time than in past seasons...


It did strike me as odd that Susie wore glasses at the reunion, but didn't during the 39 days.

Bob seemed a bit overwhelmed by the whole thing -- I like him and think it would be really cool to be in his physics class.


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

So what did Susie teach? She kept referring to teaching kids.

I thought her profession was something like hairdresser or homemaker. I couldn't remember


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Magister said:


> So what did Susie teach? She kept referring to teaching kids.
> 
> I thought her profession was something like hairdresser or homemaker. I couldn't remember


She teaches TRYING.


----------



## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

jlb said:


> Maybe it was editing, but it seemed like nobody...nobody....looked at the various shaped sample towers that we placed around the challenge area.


Who, may I ask, is "we"? Do you work on the show?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

wendiness1 said:


> I wondered about that. That's the first thing I would have done - check the sample. (Do you work on the show?)


Maybe the sample tower was built with glue and deemed useless as a model.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

JFriday said:


> She teaches TRYING.


Yoda, she is not.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Sirius Black said:


> Who, may I ask, is "we"? Do you work on the show?


I think "we" is just the first two letters of "were". But I can only guess.


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## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

I was happy as hell to see Bob win. And I think Sugar knew that she was giving it to him. But she didn't what to make the choice between Matty and Bob so forcing the tie breaker to let them fight it out was the best way to go... to be fair. 

About Corine and Randy. There is a lot of pain and agony in each of their worlds. They live in a different place than most of us. It's a place where you are so unhappy that you dislike anyone else who actually is happy. Their pain is so great (or they are so poor at dealing with it) that they feel compelled to share it with others, hoping for some "misery loves company" companionship. I don't know if it's a sexist thing or not but many accept it in Randy because the cranky old fart is somehow more comical than the *****ing young woman. It's a good thing for Corine that she's hot cause otherwise no one would ever talk to her. I find it interesting the way that she's managed to satisfy her ego by creating this theory that it's a personality of playing the "bad girl" to carefully develop the justification of her severe lack of personality. Just simply amazing, and proof that you can rationalize just about anything if you try hard enough. 

Bob couldn't really give the 100k to anybody else cause the audience voted it to him and it would have been a slap in the face to his new fan club. Not a good idea at all, as some of them might really dislike Sugar and that would just be tacky. But I also wanted to see her get it.

Kenny didn't really believe that he had a rightful claim to Bob's immunity idol. He was just playing the game initially and then sticking with the argument in an attempt to make himself look less dirty later. It was amusing to see the shock on his face when he heard Bob telling that he knew the plan. I'd still like to know who told Bob it happened that way. Maybe I just missed it.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

retrodog said:


> I'd still like to know who told Bob it happened that way. Maybe I just missed it.


Sugar told him what was happening and then went back to the others and told them Bob was blissfully unaware so they wouldn't change their plans.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

DancnDude said:


> I'm still trying to figure out Randy. Is he really that bitter of a person or just trying to be funny? He said he was not trying to be funny and that he is just like that but the whole thing felt like a joke.
> 
> The whole best friend is a dog bit was actually kinda creepy. Not that he has and loves his dog, but that it seems like that's his only friend. And that he brought a bunch of people to the reunion who didn't even know him. Although kinda cool that he brought fans of the show who really wanted to see it.
> 
> I just don't know what to think about the guy.


I personally think Randy has some emotional issues and I feel sorry for him (like Susie does). I really do hope the best for him as he seems to be suffering. Also didn't his dog die like 5 years ago? Was the dog 15 when he died or does he still count his dog as his best friend even after death? There is something that happened to Randy 15 years ago (give or take 5 years depending on where the dog death factors in best friend number wise) that has probably changed him.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

retrodog said:


> I was happy as hell to see Bob win. And I think Sugar knew that she was giving it to him. But she didn't what to make the choice between Matty and Bob so forcing the tie breaker to let them fight it out was the best way to go... to be fair.


Which would have been a good way to spin it. But she didn't--as usual, she seemed utterly clueless that her actions might affect others.

That, to me, is her worst quality--a casual but deep-rooted self-centeredness. Not the arrogant kind, but the thoughtless kind. Her conversation with Matty at the final Tribal was a perfect example...she was thinking about herself in the answer, when he was practically begging her to think about him. And if she'd picked up on that (which was about as subtle as a sledgehammer), at least she would have gotten one vote.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

I also hope the University of Florida takes away Corrine's degree. I mean there is a difference in being mean and then just down right insensitive. When Corrine looses a loves one I hope someone goes up to her and tells her to stop being upset and get over it (that is if Corrine can feel upset over losing a loved one)


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

TriBruin said:


> Well, that is a decent result. Bob winning is fine. But I think once he made it to the F3, he was a cinch for the win.
> 
> I think Sugar could have earned herself some votes with a much better Final TC. She was horrible. Matty was basically asking her to apologize and she didn't! She lost Matty's vote right there.





newsposter said:


> i think it was obvious that sugar pretty much just wanted bob to have the money. Her heart wasnt into it at all this ep. She even admitted she would be surprised for a few people to vote for her. I like the directness esp. the finger at corrine.


i think it's not that she wanted him to have the money... she felt she had no shot at the money, so she said, f it.. i'll say whatever i want.



newsposter said:


> i liken corrine to a girl in high school who plans the entire year for 'getting back at' the girl who snipped her hair during the pep rally. Just lets things fester all year to say her 'piece' and us unswaying from it even though she has to know it would make her look like an idiot to anyone. I can maaaybe see all she said during the gameplay as being emotion but when you have time to think and can say anything in the world about someone and spew that at final council, you are just an attention whore. Plain and simple.


corrine is pretty good looking. she's cool to whoever she wants to be. she could pick up a guy, and be cool to the guy.. but be a ***** to everyone else, and complain to the guy how stupid his friends or her enemies are... and the guy would be oblivious to how much everyone hates her cuz he's on her side.... and she's doing him.


MickeS said:


> Corrine is just depressingly immature. I'm sure she'll live a decent life as a trophy wife to someone who can't stand her.


this too.


Ment said:


> Sugar definitely got the benefit of editing IMHO. She played a good social game but got no votes. That tells me she so horrible to be around camp that the jury couldn't see past it.


it seemed like, from marcus and corrine's answers on the show... she cried alot more than they showed on tv... and even marcus was thinking the crying was disingenous and annoying.



jradosh said:


> I think that only you, Randy and Corinne share that opinion.


i loved them on the show... the more dysfunctional a person is on a reality show, the more fun it is to watch. randy, corrine, krystal, and sugar... they should have forced them to go on a reward together. tv gold.

overall... a decent season. not the best. not the worst. if susie would've won, it would've ruined the whole season. sugar playing the HII has to be a top 5 moment in survivor history. bob's fake HII's were awesome. the challenges were new and interesting. looking forward to the next one.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Einselen said:


> I also hope the University of Florida takes away Corrine's degree. I mean there is a difference in being mean and then just down right insensitive. When Corrine looses a loves one I hope someone goes up to her and tells her to stop being upset and get over it (that is if Corrine can feel upset over losing a loved one)


Why would her college take away her degree? That's crazy.

Corinne most certainly did *not* tell Sugar to get over losing her dad. She said that if Sugar cries about every little thing, then it's hard to know when she's really sad, like over her father dying. Made sense to me...


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Why would her college take away her degree? That's crazy.
> 
> Corinne most certainly did *not* tell Sugar to get over losing her dad. She said that if Sugar cries about every little thing, then it's hard to know when she's really sad, like over her father dying. Made sense to me...


makes sense to me too... especially considering marcus corraborates the excessive crying.

she just made it super mean with the antidepressants and the jab at her intelligence, and all...


----------



## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

Einselen said:


> I personally think Randy has some emotional issues and I feel sorry for him (like Susie does). I really do hope the best for him as he seems to be suffering. Also didn't his dog die like 5 years ago? Was the dog 15 when he died or does he still count his dog as his best friend even after death? There is something that happened to Randy 15 years ago (give or take 5 years depending on where the dog death factors in best friend number wise) that has probably changed him.


Sounds like he had a wife or girlfiend that cheated on him and hurt him deeply. When Jeff asked him why he loved his dog so much he replied, "Well, he never cheated on me".


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> I thought she looked good at the reunion, but looked better at the final tribal. It seemed like she gained some weight back...


who could see weight under that paste 



wendiness1 said:


> I don't understand why this surprised you. They were back in "civilization", had a chance to fix their hair, wear makeup, dress nicely. Why wouldn't they? Did you think they would show up exactly as we left them?


GET OUT .. you mean all these years i thought the speeches and venom was back on the island while they were all dirty and thats not true? I could swear they were still on the island when they voted. And sugar had blue eye shadow and her and sue looked like they had washed hair..so that would explain why they looked so cleaned up, if they werent on the island.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

retrodog said:


> I find it interesting the way that [Corinne]'s managed to satisfy her ego by creating this theory that it's a personality of playing the "bad girl" to carefully develop the justification of her severe lack of personality. Just simply amazing, and proof that you can rationalize just about anything if you try hard enough.


I thought that was an amazing thing. She basically said that there is nothing interesting about her, except that she's a *****. Very odd thing to say. Sounds like she has real self-esteem issues.


----------



## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

I think Randy was more liked by the audience because in addition to making fun of others, he was very self-deprecating, which takes the sting off just a bit. Corrine never really made fun of herself, just others. Plus, I think a great deal of the hatred of her came from what she said to Sugar at the final TC. Sugar was very popular (2nd place in the fan favorites contest), so I'm sure a lot of the boos were from Sugar fans.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

LifeIsABeach said:


> Sounds like he had a wife or girlfiend that cheated on him and hurt him deeply. When Jeff asked him why he loved his dog so much he replied, "Well, he never cheated on me".


He said he had girlfriends before. I would go along your lines and say he had a serious live in girlfriend that did cheat on him and break his heart. Once that happened I think he never got back to being his old self and put up this huge barrier. If the cheating this is the correct assumption I wonder how/if he does videography for weddings.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

oh and good job on the morning show blurring the check on the close up but when that host was holding it, you could see ALL of it...i guess he will have paparazzi on his step anyway though.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Why would her college take away her degree? That's crazy.
> 
> Corinne most certainly did *not* tell Sugar to get over losing her dad. She said that if Sugar cries about every little thing, then it's hard to know when she's really sad, like over her father dying. Made sense to me...


Not saying they would but I would not mind if they did.

As far as Corrine's comments and all there are some times and things in our lives that will be so traumatic that it throws off the whole balance of one's self. This is where people run into alcohol problems, drug problems, sleeping around, taking risky behaviors, random marriages that are annulled, etc. They are trying to find themselves or reestablish themselves. Clearly Sugar was very emotional throughout the entire game, she is/was probably clinically depressed and may or may not have been on medicines to balance it out. Going on Survivor probably helped Sugar get back on the right track but Corrine did not have to go on her rant and purposefully "go for the jugular". Corrine even said that. Jeff commented on there is a difference between being rude and just be down right mean (he said it better during the reunion show), clearly Corrine has not personally or knows someone who has gone through just life like Sugar has and I hope she does not have to, but someday she might and then I think she will realize how much as a ***** she was. Sometimes we all need to step back and realize not everyone has it as good as us and I think Corrine needs to get a big humble pie in the face.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Sugar is giving it right back to Corrine http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20081215/en_top_eo/73276 "You know what? Her family really needs to take out a really good life-insurance policy, because the way her karma is going to be, somebody in her family is going to kick it soon. And nobody's going to cry."


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Einselen said:


> Not saying they would but I would not mind if they did.


WTF? Do you think she should lose her driver's license as well? How about her library card? Talk about a weird thing to focus on...

I didn't mind Corrine or Randy at all. I'll bet they're both a hoot to be around when the pressure is off.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Einselen said:


> Not saying they would but I would not mind if they did.


Well, much as I despise her, I'd mind a lot. Unless her degree is in human kindness, what does being a ***** have to do with it?


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Her degree is from my University and I don't think she belongs as a part of the Gator Nation. That is why I brought up the degree.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I thought you said to take away her degree because when Jeff asked her how she got it she said she cheated.


----------



## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

Einselen said:


> Clearly Sugar was very emotional throughout the entire game, she is/was probably clinically depressed and may or may not have been on medicines to balance it out.


I would think they would do a psychological review of all contestants and possibly even eliminate anybody who relies on prescription meds for any reason.


----------



## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

newsposter said:


> GET OUT .. you mean all these years i thought the speeches and venom was back on the island while they were all dirty and thats not true? I could swear they were still on the island when they voted.


Of course they were still on the island, silly! 

Seriously, though, why do you think they wouldn't want to be all cleaned up and shiny for the finale?


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

DancnDude said:


> I thought you said to take away her degree because when Jeff asked her how she got it she said she cheated.


I thought Randy said he cheated.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

DancnDude said:


> I thought you said to take away her degree because when Jeff asked her how she got it she said she cheated.


That was Randy and that was funny, especially since he says he says he is not trying to be funny.



wendiness1 said:


> I would think they would do a psychological review of all contestants and possibly even eliminate anybody who relies on prescription meds for any reason.


If they do a screening I think they failed as she seemed to be a little overemotional (not that is a problem). Maybe she was on meds and went off them to be on the show as she may have not been able to have them. If done improperly (instead of weened off just go cold turkey) that could have added a lot more to it as then her body is also adjusting to no longer getting the meds to help function normally.


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

JFriday said:


> She teaches TRYING.


Funniest thing I have read all day. Thank you.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

DancnDude said:


> I thought you said to take away her degree because when Jeff asked her how she got it she said she cheated.


Randy said he got an engineering degree from Vanderbilt by cheating. I don't think he was serious.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

wendiness1 said:


> Of course they were still on the island, silly!
> 
> Seriously, though, why do you think they wouldn't want to be all cleaned up and shiny for the finale?


i didnt know they had the 'ability' to clean up on the island. Certainly not makeup of any kind nor shampoo

but maybe these things are allowed and i just am unaware


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

newsposter said:


> i didnt know they had the 'ability' to clean up on the island. Certainly not makeup of any kind nor shampoo
> 
> but maybe these things are allowed and i just am unaware


I think they do have access to femine hygene products, contact lense solution and medication. I swear I saw it somewhere.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

As someone else said, Randy can make fun of himself... Corrine is pretty serious about herself...

Randy didn't make an inappropriate remark about Sugar's dead father... Corrine did...

I believe these differences were important to the audience which is why one gets cheers...the other boos...


----------



## Steve_Martin (Jul 18, 2004)

I wonder how that million dollar cookie tasted.


----------



## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

Einselen said:


> Not saying they would but I would not mind if they did.
> 
> As far as Corrine's comments and all there are some times and things in our lives that will be so traumatic that it throws off the whole balance of one's self. This is where people run into alcohol problems, drug problems, sleeping around, taking risky behaviors, random marriages that are annulled, etc. They are trying to find themselves or reestablish themselves. Clearly Sugar was very emotional throughout the entire game, she is/was probably clinically depressed and may or may not have been on medicines to balance it out. Going on Survivor probably helped Sugar get back on the right track but Corrine did not have to go on her rant and purposefully "go for the jugular". Corrine even said that. Jeff commented on there is a difference between being rude and just be down right mean (he said it better during the reunion show), clearly Corrine has not personally or knows someone who has gone through just life like Sugar has and I hope she does not have to, but someday she might and then I think she will realize how much as a ***** she was. Sometimes we all need to step back and realize not everyone has it as good as us and I think Corrine needs to get a big humble pie in the face.


If I had been Jeff, right after Corrine's explanation on the reunion show, I would have said the following directly at Corinne.

"I think you need to realize that nearly *everybody* has experienced a great loss in their life at one point or another, and then subsequently had trouble dealing with it. Most of them have cried several times during their attempts to come to terms with it. Out of this vast majority of people, you have just made all of them collectively look at you and say the word *****. And not in a good or admirable way. While Randy has sort of created a character who hates everybody, Dirty Harry-like, you insisted on choosing who appeared to be the weakest person and then attacking them like a hyena after a baby gazelle. I wouldn't count on that fan club growing quite as fast as you thought it would."


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I was always under the impression that the vetting process would likely eliminate anyone who had to rely on meds to maintain when they would not be allowed those meds in the game. I mean waivers aside, there has to be a huge liability in taking someone who is psychotic when not on meds and putting them in that kind of situation!

There have been instances (the bug-eyed "fan" who had a breakdown and the one woman who opted out right as they were starting the "voyage" to seclusion) where the game got to people. I can't remember how long before the game started that Sugar lost her dad, but it seemed it was just a few months. I mean look at how goofy the deprivation and mental aspect of the game made Matty act when his girlfriend showed up! The game takes a toll and I don't think I could jump to the conclusion that Sugar was "imbalanced" and off her meds! Geez - seems like quite a jump to me. And if she was close with her dad (which it seemed) and you're stuck in Africa with a bunch of people you don't even know - I might cry a little more sometimes myself.

Wow - I have no foundation in the psychological arena, but it seems a bit off for people to be diagnosing based on what is shown on a reality show.

As for the "looking better at final tribal, I've thought for a while now that it seems they at least get to clean their clothes, shower, wash their hair, even put on a little make up before final tribal. At that point some of that isn't necessarily so much of a luxury anymore. I always thought it was a bit of a way to "bridge" between the daily grunge of the living conditions there and the glam that has become the winner announcement/live reunion show. They've always looked cleaned up to me at Final Tribal.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I'm not a necklace wearing person at all, but I do like the 45 adapter necklace Sugar wore throughout the season...

They sell it here if anyone is interested...


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

bruinfan said:


> corrine is pretty good looking. she's cool to whoever she wants to be. she could pick up a guy, and be cool to the guy.. but be a ***** to everyone else, and complain to the guy how stupid his friends or her enemies are... and the guy would be oblivious to how much everyone hates her cuz he's on her side.... and she's doing him.


Consider what could happen if this stupid guy ever caught on and decided to dump her. I can see her giving Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attaction a run for her money. And think about what she could say about somebody she "hated" on the internet!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

JLucPicard said:


> The game takes a toll and I don't think I could jump to the conclusion that Sugar was "imbalanced" and off her meds! Geez - seems like quite a jump to me. And if she was close with her dad (which it seemed) and you're stuck in Africa with a bunch of people you don't even know - I might cry a little more sometimes myself.
> 
> Wow - I have no foundation in the psychological arena, but it seems a bit off for people to be diagnosing based on what is shown on a reality show.


I think the core values of people stay pretty much the same though (save for editing of the show, of course), but yes, it has been mentioned in numerous articles that most if not all reality shows (including those that have nothing to do with living in the wild or in any discomfort) intentionally deprive contestants of sleep and food, because it gets people to be much more on edge and is likely to create conflicts.

A few months ago we did a sort of "Survivor"-like game here on the forum, and that little itty-bitty taste of it which was probably at the very most like 0.1% of the actual Survivor experience, gave me a newfound respect for the players that manage to come out of the show not completely crazy.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Really happy for Bob. I have to disagree with those who argue that Sugar didn't want to make the choice between Bob and Matty, though; I think she absolutely made her choice with that vote. It was virtually assured that the tiebreaker challenge would be fire making (as Bob quite rightly assumed), and she had to know that it was another challenge tailored directly to Bob's strengths. She probably also knew that she had no chance against either of them in the final tribal, so it was really a matter of who she wanted to see win it most.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Going to REI, buying a flint and practicing at home aside, if you're on Survivor for 39 days, I think it would be a good idea for you to at least make the fire a few times to get to know your way around it a little bit. Sure, it's better if you can do it going in, but after 39 days, there shouldn't be any excuse for not even getting a spark going!


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

If you are even thinking about going on the show (someone mentioned that you don't get that much advance notice), start learning now to build a fire for heaven's sake...

I know a lot of people that couldn't get a good fire going if they were given tinder, wood scraps, firewood and a box of matches!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JLucPicard said:


> Going to REI, buying a flint and practicing at home aside, if you're on Survivor for 39 days, I think it would be a good idea for you to at least make the fire a few times to get to know your way around it a little bit. Sure, it's better if you can do it going in, but after 39 days, there shouldn't be any excuse for not even getting a spark going!


Ironically, when Bob went off after talking to Sugar he just practiced getting the kindling lit, not building an actual fire...and that was almost his downfall. But I doubt many will learn from his experience...


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Ironically, when Bob went off after talking to Sugar he just practiced getting the kindling lit, not building an actual fire...and that was almost his downfall. But I doubt many will learn from his experience...


Yea...I was thinking that as I watched Bob as well... He basically practiced how to get flame...but not how to maintain it...

As I have said in my previous post, I know a lot of people who can't get a fire going with kindling, firewood and a match... They can get a flame (heaven help us if that weren't the case!)... but the hard part is maintaining the flame and getting a fire going...


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> I was always under the impression that the vetting process would likely eliminate anyone who had to rely on meds to maintain when they would not be allowed those meds in the game. I mean waivers aside, there has to be a huge liability in taking someone who is psychotic when not on meds and putting them in that kind of situation!


I am sure they ask for a medical history but I doubt they get a medical record and even then if you go to a psychiatrist that is different then your local M.D. or General Practitioner so you give your health history where they see you have gone in for check ups. One can lie and say they are not on meds, simple as that.



JLucPicard said:


> The game takes a toll and I don't think I could jump to the conclusion that Sugar was "imbalanced" and off her meds! Geez - seems like quite a jump to me. And if she was close with her dad (which it seemed) and you're stuck in Africa with a bunch of people you don't even know - I might cry a little more sometimes myself.
> 
> Wow - I have no foundation in the psychological arena, but it seems a bit off for people to be diagnosing based on what is shown on a reality show.


When one is overall more emotional on most everything that is a sign, I am not saying she is/was imbalanced but she sure did show signs. Understandable if something reminds her of her father or talking about or even Bob as a "father" figure but voting off nice people and feeling so sad about it and crying are some signs. Yes the game is tough emotionally and physically, any game with strategies, people making deals, backstabbing, etc. will mess with you. When you have seen someone, or even yourself, show signs of depression maybe her actions will make you won't think that jump is quite as large (and maybe you have experienced that) but to me I don't think it is a huge jump. Also someone be "imbalanced" or suffering from a mental disease should not be afraid to admit it and get help as it is a disease just like all the other diseases in the world people suffer from.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

newsposter said:


> i didnt know they had the 'ability' to clean up on the island. Certainly not makeup of any kind nor shampoo





JLucPicard said:


> As for the "looking better at final tribal, I've thought for a while now that it seems they at least get to clean their clothes, shower, wash their hair, even put on a little make up before final tribal. At that point some of that isn't necessarily so much of a luxury anymore. I always thought it was a bit of a way to "bridge" between the daily grunge of the living conditions there and the glam that has become the winner announcement/live reunion show. They've always looked cleaned up to me at Final Tribal.


I agree with this. I think the producers don't want the stark contrast between Final TC and Reunion to be so stark, so they add in another gradual step by letting the final survivors clean up a little more than usual right before that Final TC.


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## USAFSSO (Aug 24, 2005)

So, what would happen if the final vote came down to a tie? Which is a problem with having 3 in the end.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

USAFSSO said:


> So, what would happen if the final vote came down to a tie? Which is a problem with having 3 in the end.


Fire making challenge!

It is unsure. It may be possible the producers have the one lone vote revote before leaving. If it is some revote of sorts then it would have to be done before leaving as the reunion show the contestants have watched all the season (sans last 2 hours). Maybe it is pick a rock, wrong rock and you blow up (wait they don't do Fleegleboxes on survivor), and certain color would be it. Who knows maybe it would be a text in who you want to win type deal and america chooses.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

Einselen said:


> I am sure they ask for a medical history but I doubt they get a medical record and even then if you go to a psychiatrist that is different then your local M.D. or General Practitioner so you give your health history where they see you have gone in for check ups. One can lie and say they are not on meds, simple as that.
> 
> When one is overall more emotional on most everything that is a sign, I am not saying she is/was imbalanced but she sure did show signs. Understandable if something reminds her of her father or talking about or even Bob as a "father" figure but voting off nice people and feeling so sad about it and crying are some signs. Yes the game is tough emotionally and physically, any game with strategies, people making deals, backstabbing, etc. will mess with you. When you have seen someone, or even yourself, show signs of depression maybe her actions will make you won't think that jump is quite as large (and maybe you have experienced that) but to me I don't think it is a huge jump. Also someone be "imbalanced" or suffering from a mental disease should not be afraid to admit it and get help as it is a disease just like all the other diseases in the world people suffer from.


I would guarantee one has to provide all personal info including all medical info. There is no way they are going to let those contestants go into remote locations if they have serious mental or physical health issues. The risks of law suits are huge if they didn't.

People who cry easily are not necessarily imbalanced. Same with those who don't cry much or at all. It doesn't mean someone has mental issues. We are too quick these days to suggest some mental illness and throw meds at it, but we have been brain trained my excellent marketing to think we are all a bit off kilter and need meds.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

Choices choices. I would wager a lot that most of what "happened" to Randy happened due to choices he made in his life. Positive choices: Finding a good woman who isn't out to hurt you or screw you over, and learn about her family dynamic. If you don't, walk away no matter how much you think you love her. Surround yourself with good people with good self esteem and avoid the needy manipulators. A few of the right choices and within reason no one has to end up like Randy. And think about it. Does Randy have it do bad? He was on the show wasn't he?

Sugar made it more than clear she was trying to do the good and equitable thing in regards to Bob and Matt and that is really what her agenda was the whole game. This is also the reason she didn't have much to respond to at the final tribal to pick the winner. She basically has/had no agenda and no manipulation to offer so her only response to the questions of why she should win were honest answers that didn't have any real self serving agenda other than to see others happy. Seriously the woman was that good hearted and good natured as she is a true co-dependent.

As far as the game goes, her good nature doesn't serve the survival of the fittest evil intent of the game and therefore those who are ruthless lack respect of Sugar due to simple envy.

Corrine loathes herself. It is so obvious, and stating that explains EVERYTHING about her in terms of why she acts like she does, her personality etc. Most of how she acts is her family dynamic as the way she acts is learned behavior and her family should be ashamed. Look at her mom and spend some time with her and I bet you find the origins of satanic corrine.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

hughmcjr said:


> I would guarantee one has to provide all personal info including all medical info. There is no way they are going to let those contestants go into remote locations if they have serious mental or physical health issues. The risks of law suits are huge if they didn't.


Thing is they request it but if I don't say I go to so and so Dr. and I give them my general practitioner's medical records (assuming they don't know about any other Dr's I go to, which they don't unless I mention it) and say that is all then they will let me on the show. Now if I go crazy and a lawsuit comes from it they will blame me as I withheld information. There is no way CBS would be able to dig for more information in this regard unless I made a blog and mentioned it there or some sort of thing like that.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

USAFSSO said:


> So, what would happen if the final vote came down to a tie?  Which is a problem with having 3 in the end.


My guess is they would have a re-vote on the spot with the 2 tied players.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

Einselen said:


> Thing is they request it but if I don't say I go to so and so Dr. and I give them my general practitioner's medical records (assuming they don't know about any other Dr's I go to, which they don't unless I mention it) and say that is all then they will let me on the show. Now if I go crazy and a lawsuit comes from it they will blame me as I withheld information. There is no way CBS would be able to dig for more information in this regard unless I made a blog and mentioned it there or some sort of thing like that.


If you go to any other doctor that your GP recommends those doctors/specialists forward the medical info to your GP. And it if any of it is ran through health insurance, that is where the show will go to get info. Really though you are taking it to an extreme. How many of those applying are going to have more than one Doctor and or have medical records not released or hidden. I mean really I understand your point, but your playing devil's advocate with a not so common possibility. It is very unlikely what you are saying is going to happen and therefore really just a hypothetical.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

flyers088 said:


> My guess is they would have a re-vote on the spot with the 2 tied players.


Or just have the one person revote. I doubt the others would change their votes.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

hughmcjr said:


> If you go to any other doctor that your GP recommends those doctors/specialists forward the medical info to your GP. And it if any of it is ran through health insurance, that is where the show will go to get info. Really though you are taking it to an extreme. How many of those applying are going to have more than one Doctor and or have medical records not released or hidden. I mean really I understand your point, but your playing devil's advocate with a not so common possibility. It is very unlikely what you are saying is going to happen and therefore really just a hypothetical.


Not common yet people say we are trained by drug companies and their marketing to misdiagnose and sell drugs so I think it is a lot more common. Also if I use my GP I still have to allow the specialist to pass on information, if it was a psychologist I would not pass that back to my GP as that is not something that is relevant for them to know. I might tell my GP what I was prescribed if I were to have other meds prescribed to me to avoid interactions, but if I am healthy in all other aspects then no other meds would be required and therefore my GP doesn't need to really know.

As for insurance I am not sure CBS would go that far to request those records, even so there are a good number of insurance plans that may not cover the mental illness aspect, drugs maybe co-pay, again though I really don't think CBS would go so far to request insurance records (but I don't know as I have not been on Survivor yet)


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

Einselen said:


> Not common yet people say we are trained by drug companies and their marketing to misdiagnose and sell drugs so I think it is a lot more common. Also if I use my GP I still have to allow the specialist to pass on information, if it was a psychologist I would not pass that back to my GP as that is not something that is relevant for them to know. I might tell my GP what I was prescribed if I were to have other meds prescribed to me to avoid interactions, but if I am healthy in all other aspects then no other meds would be required and therefore my GP doesn't need to really know.
> 
> As for insurance I am not sure CBS would go that far to request those records, even so there are a good number of insurance plans that may not cover the mental illness aspect, drugs maybe co-pay, again though I really don't think CBS would go so far to request insurance records (but I don't know as I have not been on Survivor yet)


A good GP and psychologist work with each other these days and forward info back and forth. It is actually foolish for your GP not to know everything about you and every med you are on or may have gotten from a psych doctor, so it absolutely is relevant for your GP to know what is going on with your mental state.

I would never keep info from one doctor or another. It wouldn't be in one's best interest.

As far as meds most people get their meds paid partly by insurance and therefore again those records would be available.

And with your SS# and signing off on contracts and documents again I would bet you must reveal all. There is no way CBS and their lawyers aren't going to cover themselves. Hence, 15 years later and have we really had any issues or things we haven't found out that weren't already known by CBS or those behind the scenes?


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

YAY BOB!

I was soooo worried, because hubby had the winner spoiled for him and he told me "You will be very surprised at who wins." So when Susie won the final immunity I was sure she was the winner - and I almost didn't want to keep watching. But I did - and when the winner was announced, hubby just smiled and said "I had to throw you off track!"



DevdogAZ said:


> It wasn't the weight for me. It was the make up and the ridiculous hairdo. But like I said, I never found her to be very attractive. IMO she was probably 5th or 6th hottest of the girls on this season.


The ridiculous hairdo? For someone who is a "50s pinup model"? 



wendiness1 said:


> Kenny, It's hard to believe that he really thinks anybody would be stupid enough to give him the II so he could vote them out. His own arrogance did him in.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I loved how Bob scavenged bits and pieces all along and then snagged some beads as he was sent off to - what's it called? Isolation Island? They didn't show that but maybe they didn't catch it on film.


Kenny was on my last nerve towards the end, so I was at least glad that he admitted on the Reunion show that his cockiness did him in.

I loooooved Jeff asking "How did you get the string? Where did you get the beads?"


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Jeff was just as amazed as we were and he saw it in person.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

TheDewAddict said:


> I think Randy was more liked by the audience because in addition to making fun of others, he was very self-deprecating, which takes the sting off just a bit. Corrine never really made fun of herself, just others. Plus, I think a great deal of the hatred of her came from what she said to Sugar at the final TC. Sugar was very popular (2nd place in the fan favorites contest), so I'm sure a lot of the boos were from Sugar fans.


I thought Randy was disarming at the reunion. He was actually charming. Like everybody else here, I'd thought he was a sad mean nutjob, but he didn't come across that way to me at the reunion show. He was making fun of himself, telling jokes and had a twinkle in his eyes. Jeff said he had the second highest IQ there and he went on to make some funny jokes, like cheating to get through college and being a commecial airline pilot. (I was.) Some here interpreted that as a smirk, but I think he was just playing a joke on people with this horrible character that he created. I'm thinking Randy might not be so bad in real life after all.

Corrinne, on the other hand. Oh my. No doubt that she's proud of being a ***** and hasn't matured past the mean girl middle school stage, and never will.

I'm glad Bob won, like everybody else, I was rooting for him. I'm stunned that Sugar didn't get any votes and the Susie did. But, I got the impression she really didn't care. She didn't fight for it at all. She was on that show for other reasons than a million dollars and decided to give it to Bob.

And, I do think she decided. I think she played the game, did a lot of manipulation and was a LOT smarter than people give her credit for.

And, yes, I think she's hot too.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Oh, and Jeff sums up my feelings PERFECTLY on all the bitter jury finalists: (Jeff's blog is great, BTW.)



> If this were a "fair" game, which it often is not - Sugar would have received a few votes and Susie would have none. To future Survivor contestants. If you make it to the jury, try to just let the anger and envy go and see the big picture. You got your ass kicked - no way around it - now quit being a baby and reward the person who kicked your ass by giving them your vote.


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## rrrobinsonjr (Nov 26, 2004)

Randy is awesome. He is made for reality TV.

Kenny is a turd. He sat there with a straight face and STILL called Bob out for not honoring the stupid deal after he got busted for trying to screw him.

To the two-faced jury members...*especially* Kenny and Crystal (but not Corine because she wasn't trying to have it both way)......

There is another word we call members of the Survivor jury....it's called LOSERS!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

rrrobinsonjr said:


> Kenny is a turd. He sat there with a straight face and STILL called Bob out for not honoring the stupid deal after he got busted for trying to screw him.


On the other hand, his exit interview was surprisingly gracious and accepting. I was expecting something a little more...whiney.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

I expected the same from Kenny... I was pleasantly surprised at his exit interview...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On the other hand, his exit interview was surprisingly gracious and accepting. I was expecting something a little more...whiney.


I expected exactly what he said - I think he treated this whole thing mostly as a game. I would have been very surprised if he had done anything else than say pretty much what he did.


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## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

Damn. I wasn't home last Sunday and finally watch it last night. My TiVo didn't taped the last 30 minutes of the reunion.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

jtlytle said:


> Damn. I wasn't home last Sunday and finally watch it last night. My TiVo didn't taped the last 30 minutes of the reunion.


Sunday + Football Season + Stupid CBS executives = 1 hour of padding!


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

It's probably available at cbs.com.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

As I think Montag said, Randy and Corinne were playing it up for the show. I think Corinne went for the Omorosa angle, and Randy just has that sense of humor. He was easily the most interesting part of the snow, and the funniest part of the reunion show. 

Corinne was a baiaiatch at the final vote, but even according to Marcus, Sugar must have been more annoying/whiney/crying than even Susie's constant babbling for everyone to not give her a vote.

Frank


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## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

macquariumguy said:


> It's probably available at cbs.com.


I know, but I am deaf and any video that was download, are never include a closed captions.


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## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> The stacks were at least 1-1.5 feet high and there were at least 4 stacks.
> 
> Beside 4 -5 feet would have been close to the winner if susie had failed. Matty was 6 feet give or take. Alternately, stack most to 4-5 feet then build with the remainder could also work.


I was thinking Matty should have taken some of the stacks and stacked them on top of his tower near the end when it was clear he'd lose - he had the most solid tower so I don't think it would've toppled.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

justapixel said:


> I thought Randy was disarming at the reunion. He was actually charming. Like everybody else here, I'd thought he was a sad mean nutjob, but he didn't come across that way to me at the reunion show. He was making fun of himself, telling jokes and had a twinkle in his eyes. Jeff said he had the second highest IQ there and he went on to make some funny jokes, like cheating to get through college and being a commecial airline pilot. (I was.) Some here interpreted that as a smirk, but I think he was just playing a joke on people with this horrible character that he created. I'm thinking Randy might not be so bad in real life after all.


I agree. I hated Randy all season long, but I liked the Randy that showed up at the reunion. He was funny in a dry sorta way. He did make for some good TV throughout the season though!

I am glad Bob won. He definitely deserved it!

I think I read somewhere earlier this year that Sugar was definitely getting a "good edit" and that what we saw and a lot of us liked was not the same Sugar that was actually on the island. That being said, she was my favorite this season! I would loved to have had her win, but am happy with Bob winning. I also think she is one of the cutest girls to have been on Survivor. Almost like a girl-next-door that one might actually know. Not the *****y hot girls that are aspiring actresses.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I've seen Randy working hard to suppress a smile and/or laugh many many times over the season and especially at the reunion show. He can say he's not joking, but I don't believe him. I think it's a deliberate persona.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

Einselen said:


> Or just have the one person revote. I doubt the others would change their votes.


You never know how people may feel after watching the show for the season.


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## Topher5000 (Jan 2, 2006)

My 2 fav lines:
Corinne: "Anybody can be nice. It takes a special person to be a *****." (To paraphrase).
Crystal: "It's hard to be a champion athlete & then lose (and lose, and lose, and lose, etc.)" (I added the end. It just seems to fit.)


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Chrystal came right out and said what I already knew. Yes, she was an Olympic caliber runner, but only when she was running around a hard surfaced circular track. Those long legs surely made her extremely fast for the distance she had to run but she was a very specialized athlete.

Her biggest problem on Survivor was a lack of endurance in all those sustained physical challenges.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

flyers088 said:


> You never know how people may feel after watching the show for the season.


I would think they would do the revote right away after the original TC, not wait until the re-union show.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

MickeS said:


> I would think they would do the revote right away after the original TC, not wait until the re-union show.


what are you talking about? these votes are sealed until the reunion show!


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

sushikitten said:


> I was soooo worried, because hubby had the winner spoiled for him and he told me "You will be very surprised at who wins."


I _hate_ when this happens. This is a spoiler! It makes it impossible for you to enjoy the show on its own terms; you find yourself evaluating everything through the spoiler's eyes.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

macquariumguy said:


> Chrystal came right out and said what I already knew. Yes, she was an Olympic caliber runner, but only when she was running around a hard surfaced circular track. Those long legs surely made her extremely fast for the distance she had to run but she was a very specialized athlete.
> 
> Her biggest problem on Survivor was a lack of endurance in all those sustained physical challenges.


she's just put of shape - if this were 2004, she would have done much better.
Wait till she gets to our age and then she how weak she is


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I think being a fast runner does not mean you are a good athlete...the really fastest runners in my school could not play soccer or tennis any sport other than running...


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

I think Bob was the best survivor, but Sugar played the best game.
I understand everyone was sick of her crying about her father dieing and thats probably why they sent her to exile island so many times. But she still guided the game for herself to win. MAN she was homeless living in her car when she started the show. and still made it to the final 3. I think she should have won the game but that was the worst bunch of jurors I have ever seen on survivor.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> thats probably why they sent her to exile island so many times.


I don't think so. I think she was originally sent there because she was perceived as weak and helpless. Afterwards, she kept getting sent in order to minimize the number of people who could have found the immunity idol.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

markz said:


> I also think she is one of the cutest girls to have been on Survivor. Almost like a girl-next-door that one might actually know. Not the *****y hot girls that are *aspiring actresses.*


Funny you should say that, because I think she's got the biggest list of credits on IMDb of anyone this season (AFAIK).

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0455993/


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I think being a fast runner does not mean you are a good athlete...the really fastest runners in my school could not play soccer or tennis any sport other than running...


Sure it means you're a good athlete...in her case, a world champion athlete. It just doesn't mean you're a very versatile athlete.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Maybe Survivor needs something like the BCS to select a winner: a combination of the jury vote, fan votes, media votes and computer rankings based on various criteria. 

I thought Bob employed more strategy than he was given credit for. He knew when to stay under the radar and when to step up in the competitions. Making the fake idols and using them as he did involved a lot of strategy. And you can say Sugar helped him a lot, which she certainly did, but Bob was smart enough to use her for information and do to some of his dirty work in getting other people voted off. Bob also was smart enough to anticipate the tie and to practice making fire. Matty had no clue.

I do think Sugar was the 2nd most deserving. No matter what her mental or psychological shortcomings may be, she had a huge role in getting most of the big players voted out. No one else in the game can say that. Kenny/Crystal made a couple of good moves, but in the end Sugar was a step ahead of them. Sugar did look good in the finale. I had it in my head that Jacqui was the best looking woman on this season, but after further review, it is definitely Sugar. But she's no Danni Boatright, of course.

Sugar was an underrated player (even with the crying) and Matty was an overrated player. For a supposed physical "threat" the guy did nothing.

As for Crystal's lack of prowess in the challenges, as stated by others above her glory days as a sprinter are 4+ years ago and being a great sprinter doesn't mean you're a great athlete. If that were true, guys like Carl Lewis and Usain Bolt would have played in the NFL, NBA or MLB for big bucks. Plus, Crystal has mentioned that she's a mother and doesn't train anymore. I've made fun of her as much as anyone, but I don't think it is so hard to believe that she would struggle with some of these challenges. 

I'm looking forward to next season.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> Maybe Survivor needs something like the BCS to select a winner


LOL! Yeah, that'd make everyone happy.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Sure it means you're a good athlete...in her case, a world champion athlete. It just doesn't mean you're a very versatile athlete.


yes...that's what I mean...I would have used "all around" but you trump me again with your big words and stuff 

but seriously, I just don't think of someone who runs fast as an athlete (yes, I know I'm going to start a riot)...to me, the word means someone who can play any game you throw him/her in...I know that's my own definition...I understand that...


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Anubys said:


> yes...that's what I mean...I would have used "all around" but you trump me again with your big words and stuff
> 
> but seriously, I just don't think of someone who runs fast as an athlete (yes, I know I'm going to start a riot)...to me, the word means someone who can play any game you throw him/her in...I know that's my own definition...I understand that...


I agree 100% - but also because you can run like the wind does not mean you are not an athlete. The are plenty of fast and plenty of slow athletes and vice versa.


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## DeludedBuzz (Dec 6, 2001)

I guess you can compare Crystal to an F1 race car, trying to run in a World Rally Championship. Its the most advanced car in the world, but its gonna break down real quick on anything other than the track it was made for.

As I said of the final five, I'd break it down:

1 Bob
2 Sugar
3 Kenny
4 Susie
5 Matty

Seriously, what did Matty do?


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Re the definition of "athlete"

In sports terminology, being called an athlete is basically short-hand for "versatile athlete."

I hear that all the time. Technically all NBA players are athletes because they play basketball for a living, but Kobe Bryant is an athlete while Big Baby Davis is a basketball player. Crystal is a (former) sprinter but not an athlete.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

danielhart said:


> I was rooting for Bob or Sugar (although I knew she had no shot).
> 
> I agree with the comment that the 100K fan prize should not go to the winner of the show, and it was kind of a dick move on Probst's part the way he made it sound like Sugar had won and then announced it was Bob.
> 
> I also was kind of expecting that Bob might offer for the fan prize to go to Sugar - since he only made the final 3 because of her.


agreed, and I also hoped that Bob might throw the fan prize her way. and who knows, he may have after the show...


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

MegaHertz67 said:


> When the house of cards challenge came up instead of an endurance type challenge, that Bob had it locked up. Susie came up big and deserved to get some votes in the final tribal.
> 
> By the way, Kelly in season 1 did not get a single vote against her all season and lost to Hatch in another final tribal with a shrew spewing venom.
> 
> I did not like Sugar this season. At first she seemed like a well meaning ditz that was in over her head. Then she seemed to understand a little better but gets manipulated... a lot. Then she seemed to get it to the point of being cocky and thinking she was in some sort of control. In the end she back-stabbed anyone that helped her except Bob. She didn't deserve a vote.


couldn't disagree more. Sugar played the game very well. She played the ditz as needed, and was pulling most of the strings. IMO she deserved the win MORE than Bob based on game strategy. Bob won immunity more often, and that alone kept him around until the end. But Bob didn't play the GAME as well as Sugar.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Magister said:


> I fully understand the hate they had for Sugar. Imagine having to spend every waking moment with a woman that is constantly crying. It is already a tough situation. Sure you have sympathy for her, but JC on a stick. It would grate on your nerves. Yes Corrine was over the top, but even Marcus has something to say about it.
> 
> She was an emotional basket case.
> 
> ...


IIRC Sugar's dad died just a week or two before filming began. Imagine having your father die and then get whisked off into a stressful situation around complete strangers and see how well you hold up emotionally.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tivoboyjr said:


> In sports terminology, being called an athlete is basically short-hand for "versatile athlete."


Which means being called a versatile athlete is shorthand for "versatile versatile athlete?"

In human terminology, athlete is shorthand for "athlete." Sometimes, it's even limited to track & field---that is, Crystal's sport.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> IIRC Sugar's dad died just a week or two before filming began. Imagine having your father die and then get whisked off into a stressful situation around complete strangers and see how well you hold up emotionally.


I'm pretty sure she said it was five months before she came on the show.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

I knew Bob would win. But we wanted to see Matty....

Damn padding, I was out of town so I didn't pad for football, and I missed the second half of the reunion show.

Stupid CBS


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Which means being called a versatile athlete is shorthand for "versatile versatile athlete?"
> 
> In human terminology, athlete is shorthand for "athlete." Sometimes, it's even limited to track & field---that is, Crystal's sport.


If you follow the definition that anyone who participates in a sport is an athlete, then the word doesn't mean anything. Crystal is a (former) sprinter, but not an athlete. Tom the Firefighter was an athlete.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> IIRC Sugar's dad died just a week or two before filming began. Imagine having your father die and then get whisked off into a stressful situation around complete strangers and see how well you hold up emotionally.


As Devdogaz said, it was MONTHS before. Now this is one person Sugar crying about her dad... She was annoying ALL the other people with the constant crying. Yes daddy died. Yes daddy died knowing you did soft core porn. He was disappointed by his non-fatty daughter. Don't make everyone in the game suffer like you make him suffer.

She was annoying. Even when you have an excuse you can toss up, just gotta stop crying. She was so self absorbed, she couldn't see how it was grating on the others.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Magister said:


> As Devdogaz said, it was MONTHS before. Now this is one person Sugar crying about her dad... She was annoying ALL the other people with the constant crying. Yes daddy died. Yes daddy died knowing you did soft core porn. He was disappointed by his non-fatty daughter. Don't make everyone in the game suffer like you make him suffer.
> 
> She was annoying. Even when you have an excuse you can toss up, just gotta stop crying. She was so self absorbed, she couldn't see how it was grating on the others.


Corrine?


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Einselen said:


> Corrine?


I was thinking the same thing.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> If you follow the definition that anyone who participates in a sport is an athlete, then the word doesn't mean anything.


Well, then it means "someone who participates in sports"...?  Kinda like we say "sports" instead of "activities people do for exercise, sometimes using props". 



tivoboyjr said:


> Re the definition of "athlete"
> 
> In sports terminology, being called an athlete is basically short-hand for "versatile athlete."
> 
> I hear that all the time. Technically all NBA players are athletes because they play basketball for a living, but Kobe Bryant is an athlete while Big Baby Davis is a basketball player. Crystal is a (former) sprinter but not an athlete.


I have never heard someone use the word "athlete" to mean anything other than "someone who competes in elite sporting events".

I think you might be thinking of the adjective "athletic".


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

With that yellow shirt he was wearing, and the black shirt underneath creating a black neck line, Kenny had a bit of a Sulu thing going.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> but Sugar played the best game.
> I understand everyone was sick of her crying about her father dieing and thats probably why they sent her to exile island so many times. But she still guided the game for herself to win. *MAN she was homeless living in her car when she started the show.* and still made it to the final 3. I think she should have won the game but that was the worst bunch of jurors I have ever seen on survivor.


That just means she was so annoying, she couldn't find some sucker guy to move in with. So think how annoying she must have been off camera on the show!

Frank


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

scottjf8 said:


> I knew Bob would win. But we wanted to see Matty....
> 
> Damn padding, I was out of town so I didn't pad for football, and I missed the second half of the reunion show.
> 
> Stupid CBS


even if out of town, you can initiate/adjust recordings if you have online access where you are...I set up recordings from work all the time just from the directv web site...


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Magister said:


> As Devdogaz said, it was MONTHS before. Now this is one person Sugar crying about her dad... She was annoying ALL the other people with the constant crying. Yes daddy died. Yes daddy died knowing you did soft core porn. He was disappointed by his non-fatty daughter. Don't make everyone in the game suffer like you make him suffer.
> 
> She was annoying. Even when you have an excuse you can toss up, just gotta stop crying. She was so self absorbed, she couldn't see how it was grating on the others.


Wow, could you be any less sympathetic? Damn, that's just nasty.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> Wow, could you be any less sympathetic? Damn, that's just nasty.


I am just saying all of you guys are forgetting there are other people out there besides Sugar. She was draining all of them emotionally for her bit of sorrow. Yes she had a loss, yes she should have time to mourn that loss. But she was killing them all. They had to spend more then a month listening to her cry. That would drain any of us.

She was an emotional basketcase. As Corriene said, she was crying about a lot of different things. Yes, Corriene is a horrible person, but Sugar isn't without fault in this case.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And yet they voted Corinne off, not Sugar. That says something...


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Magister said:


> That would drain any of us.


I don't think it would have bothered me much at all. I can be empathetic without it becoming an emotional liability to myself. It's really not difficult at all.

But your post was far nastier than anything Corrine or Randy ever said on the show. Completely unwarranted IMO.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Anubys said:


> even if out of town, you can initiate/adjust recordings if you have online access where you are...I set up recordings from work all the time just from the directv web site...


But I didn't think about it running over. Especially since Sunday late afternoon i was playing poker at the Mirage


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

scottjf8 said:


> But I didn't think about it running over. /QUOTE]
> 
> so why blame CBS?
> 
> It's hard to keep track - I ended up leaving my padding on all year long because I don't trust myself to remember.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

scottjf8 said:


> Damn padding, I was out of town so I didn't pad for football, and I missed the second half of the reunion show.
> 
> Stupid CBS


I did pad for football, but I turned the tv on at 11:30 to start watching from the beginning, only to hear before I could hit the tivo button, "Bob will be on the Early Show tomorrow morning to pick up his check..." DOH! Talk about the exact wrong time to turn on the tv.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

laria said:


> I did pad for football, but I turned the tv on at 11:30 to start watching from the beginning, only to hear before I could hit the tivo button, "Bob will be on the Early Show tomorrow morning to pick up his check..." DOH! Talk about the exact wrong time to turn on the tv.


whenever I'm joining a game late, I turn on the TV while yelling "la la la", press list and then play without looking at the screen...once something -- anything -- recorded is playing, then I can watch and listen...


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Anubys said:


> whenever I'm joining a game late, I turn on the TV while yelling "la la la", press list and then play without looking at the screen...once something -- anything -- recorded is playing, then I can watch and listen...


I just hit the pause button first


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I just hit the pause button first


Or just hit the tivo button twice to bring up the now playing list then turn on the TV. So many better option that the power button.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I just hit the pause button first


I just hit the TiVo button before turning on the TV.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pause button won't work cause you can usually still see the scores (they can be on the top or the bottom)...now playing also doesn't work because with the new DVRs from DirecTV, the game is still playing in the PiP window...


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> Or just hit the tivo button twice to bring up the now playing list then turn on the TV. So many better option that the power button.





MickeS said:


> I just hit the TiVo button before turning on the TV.


I have the DTV DVR and it still plays the show in a smaller screen in the right top corner.

So I hit pause and I don't pay any attention to the paused video screen just in case there is something I don't want to see.

Whatever works is good.


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## scottjf8 (Nov 11, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


> so why blame CBS?
> 
> It's hard to keep track - I ended up leaving my padding on all year long because I don't trust myself to remember.


Because if CBS properly set enough time in the guide for football, 60 minutes and other shows wouldn't run over.

And there's no reason to set a normal pad for Survivor, since it never goes over on a Thursday evening.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And yet they voted Corinne off, not Sugar. That says something...


Yes, it says that Sugar was in an alliance that had more numbers than the alliance Corinne was in. It also says that everyone knew Sugar had the HII and therefore weren't willing to try and blindside her when there were more pressing people to vote out (Marcus, Charlie, Randy, Corinne).


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

scottjf8 said:


> But I didn't think about it running over. Especially since Sunday late afternoon i was playing poker at the Mirage


Move west. It's not a problem if you aren't in the Eastern or Central time zones.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> I don't think it would have bothered me much at all. I can be empathetic without it becoming an emotional liability to myself. It's really not difficult at all.
> 
> But your post was far nastier than anything Corrine or Randy ever said on the show. Completely unwarranted IMO.


Lets vote off Joe, then eat him.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Well, then it means "someone who participates in sports"...?  Kinda like we say "sports" instead of "activities people do for exercise, sometimes using props".
> 
> I have never heard someone use the word "athlete" to mean anything other than "someone who competes in elite sporting events".
> 
> I think you might be thinking of the adjective "athletic".


No, I'm not. Not everyone who participates in sports or exercise is an athlete. An example: someone I know calls herself an "athlete" because she works out twice a week. She's not an athlete. She's someone who uses a tredmill.

Now I'll let this go.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

FWIW, Crystal received her gold medal for being on the winning team, and participating in the heats. She was not one of the four women who actually ran for the gold..


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, it says that Sugar was in an alliance that had more numbers than the alliance Corinne was in. It also says that everyone knew Sugar had the HII and therefore weren't willing to try and blindside her when there were more pressing people to vote out (Marcus, Charlie, Randy, Corinne).


But there have been times in the past when people have been so obnoxious, they got voted off regardless of political affiliations. Clearly, Sugar was not in that league of obnoxiousness.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

For all the remote suggestions... it was really that if I'd turned on the tv during anything but that 5 second window it would have been fine.  I would have hit the Tivo button and not heard a thing that was a spoiler. 

We have a Harmony One, and it's extra work to get to the Tivo button for a particular Tivo without picking an activity, and picking the activity turns on the tv, switches it to the input on the tv and receiver, etc. Yeah, I could have gone in and gotten the button for that device without picking the activity, but really I was not expecting to tune in at the perfectly exact wrong 5 second window, 30 minutes after the show was supposed to have ended.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

scottjf8 said:


> Because if CBS properly set enough time in the guide for football, 60 minutes and other shows wouldn't run over.


not going to happen unfortunately



scottjf8 said:


> And there's no reason to set a normal pad for Survivor, since it never goes over on a Thursday evening.


Good point - I forgot about that. Not that I think about it I did a manual pad on Sunday.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> couldn't disagree more. Sugar played the game very well. She played the ditz as needed, and was pulling most of the strings. IMO she deserved the win MORE than Bob based on game strategy. Bob won immunity more often, and that alone kept him around until the end. But Bob didn't play the GAME as well as Sugar.


I'm sorry, I thought that winning challenges was part of the "game." Sugar didn't win a single individual challenge the entire game. She was handed immunity by Marcus when he won individual immunity the week that both tribes went to tribal council. Bob kicked butt in challenges, and even Susie won two immunities after the merge.

The only strategy I will give Sugar credit for was saving Matty with the HII. But then she screws him over by throwing Bob a tie as a lifeline. She was as big a liar and a hypocrite as Kenny, just with much less thought behind her moves. Sugar ended up as the swing vote a few times because she was not valued enough to be part of anyone's alliance. Something made perfectly clear when she was picked last and sent to exile when they shuffled the teams. As the swing vote she got to plead her case on who she thought should go, that was the only "strings" she pulled. And how many times did she want Randy gone before he finally went?

Sugar was just a leaf in the wind as a player, being blown from decision to decision with little or no control. She was the weakest player to make the final tribal since Lil made it in the Pearl Islands and she didn't deserve a vote.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But there have been times in the past when people have been so obnoxious, they got voted off regardless of political affiliations. Clearly, Sugar was not in that league of obnoxiousness.


All it means is that those in her alliance did not feel the need to get rid of her more than they needed to get rid of others. While I was rooting for the group that got kicked off, I did find it refreshing that the group in power stuck to their plan (for the most part) rather than succumbing to infighting. Seems like most seasons you think you know who will be the final 4 when it gets to the final 7, but it rarely works out that way because people get impatient and start jumping ship. Other than Kenny, that didn't happen this season.


laria said:


> For all the remote suggestions... it was really that if I'd turned on the tv during anything but that 5 second window it would have been fine.  I would have hit the Tivo button and not heard a thing that was a spoiler.
> 
> We have a Harmony One, and it's extra work to get to the Tivo button for a particular Tivo without picking an activity, and picking the activity turns on the tv, switches it to the input on the tv and receiver, etc. Yeah, I could have gone in and gotten the button for that device without picking the activity, but really I was not expecting to tune in at the perfectly exact wrong 5 second window, 30 minutes after the show was supposed to have ended.


Sounds like you need to reprogram the sequence of commands in your Harmony One to hit the TiVo button first thing before the TV or receiver are turned on.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But there have been times in the past when people have been so obnoxious, they got voted off regardless of political affiliations. Clearly, Sugar was not in that league of obnoxiousness.


Very true, but she also had the HII. Without it, maybe they would have given her the boot. That also could have added to the resentment some people had for her.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

Magister said:


> I am just saying all of you guys are forgetting there are other people out there besides Sugar. She was draining all of them emotionally for her bit of sorrow. Yes she had a loss, yes she should have time to mourn that loss. But she was killing them all. They had to spend more then a month listening to her cry. That would drain any of us.
> 
> She was an emotional basketcase. As Corriene said, she was crying about a lot of different things. Yes, Corriene is a horrible person, but Sugar isn't without fault in this case.


Ah BS. Spend a month alone on an island with Corinne and a month alone with Sugar and come back and tell us who you would rather be with. With the threat of death who would you rather hear, someone crying about your fate or someone yelling at you and blaming you for failure. Corinne has no defense, excuse or justification for her attitude. While one could say sugar has no justification for acting that way she did, there is certainly an explanation as to why. And Marcus' complaint about her was simply because he was "buddies" with idiot Corrine. Matty too was an idiot the way he talked to Sugar at the last tribal. She wasn't blind siding Matty she was trying to make it equitable for the Bob and him and gave both a chance.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

so were they smart or stupid to send sugar to exile all those times?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> No, I'm not. Not everyone who participates in sports or exercise is an athlete. An example: someone I know calls herself an "athlete" because she works out twice a week. She's not an athlete. She's someone who uses a tredmill.
> 
> Now I'll let this go.


I'm sorry, but it just doesn't mean what you think it means. It means "a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina" (Websters).

You're right that someone who works out twice a week is not an athlete (any bozo can do that). You're wrong that someone who competes in the Olympics is not an athlete (not any bozo can do that).

OK, now I will let this go too.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Liked the final challenge. I also couldn't believe how terrible Bob was. He had no clue. I'm in the camp that would have been happy if Sugar had won (although Bob winning was fine too). I thought she played a pretty good game. Suzie getting 3 votes was a travesty IMO. I did think it amazing that Sugar never had her name written down even one time through the entire show including the final. I can't remember that ever happening before.

I didn't watch the reunion show (just the winner announce). Maybe I should go back and watch it based on some of the comments here 

I always switch to Now Playing before turning on the TV... because I never know whether the last thing recorded left the channel on HBO or Showtime or something, and if my wife had KidZone disabled for some reason, and my kids would get an eyeful of who-knows-what carnage etc. I don't mind so much except then they have nightmares and come sleep in our bed and push me out onto the floor


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## bleen (Aug 9, 2008)

So the big question for next season is:

After the merge, will the the members name their new tribe "Snitnacot"?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Corinne's *****iness for some reason turns me on. She's not bad looking, so that helps. Obviously, she falls into the P&D category, which could turn disastrous at the end...


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Corinne's *****iness for some reason turns me on. She's not bad looking, so that helps. Obviously, she falls into the P&D category, which could turn disastrous at the end...


What is P&D? Anyway, I could imagine her as someone that gets into very self-destructive relationships. She finds guys that humilate her. She acts horrible in public, maybe even yells at the dude, but in private she cries if he didn't like her cooking.

She might have even been a fatty in her past life and she is still dealing with that. But yes, she is hot.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Magister said:


> What is P&D? Anyway, I could imagine her as someone that gets into very self-destructive relationships. She finds guys that humilate her. She acts horrible in public, maybe even yells at the dude, but in private she cries if he didn't like her cooking.
> 
> She might have even been a fatty in her past life and she is still dealing with that. But yes, she is hot.


pump and dump


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