# Obscure characters in TV shows



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

In the Eureka thread someone mentioned a character from Star Trek Enterprise who they compared a character in Eureka to. As I am not a fan of STE, I didn't catch the reference, and I after a few other posts about the character I felt I was missing the inside joke.

So let me ask....does anyone think it would be cool if you mentioned a character from another show in a show or episode thread, that you just say something like "John Doe from Show X' so the rest of us get it (or at least have an idea where the character is from). 

I find this a lot in some of the shows with SciFi themes (The Big Bang Theory, Eurkea, Warehouse 13, The Event, etc.). Seems everyone in the SciFi community watches these same shows


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> In the Eureka thread someone mentioned a character from Star Trek Enterprise who they compared a character in Eureka to. As I am not a fan of STE, I didn't catch the reference, and I after a few other posts about the character I felt I was missing the inside joke.
> 
> So let me ask....does anyone think it would be cool if you mentioned a character from another show in a show or episode thread, that you just say something like "John Doe from Show X' so the rest of us get it (or at least have an idea where the character is from).
> 
> I find this a lot in some of the shows with SciFi themes (The Big Bang Theory, Eurkea, Warehouse 13, The Event, etc.). Seems everyone in the SciFi community watches these same shows


It was The Next Generation, not Enterprise. Two completely different shows. 

In the post you refer to, I made a comment: "If [character] saves the day one more time, he'll enter Wesley Crusher territory." Even if I had said "Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG" that wouldn't have helped, would it? In any case, it wasn't an important part of my post... those who were familiar with the character of Wesley Crusher understood the point I was making.

Those who didn't... well, I just sort of expected them to make a sort of mental shrug and move on... either that, or you know, Google it. 

(Maybe it's just my innate curiosity, but any time there's something I don't know about or don't know ENOUGH about, I'll google it, or Wikipedia it. I'm CONSTANTLY looking stuff up. I would say I sit with an extra tab open to a Google search or Wikipedia window 90% of the time.)


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Oh, and.... Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> In the Eureka thread someone mentioned a character from Star Trek Enterprise who they compared a character in Eureka to. As I am not a fan of STE, I didn't catch the reference, and I after a few other posts about the character I felt I was missing the inside joke.
> 
> So let me ask....does anyone think it would be cool if you mentioned a character from another show in a show or episode thread, that you just say something like "John Doe from Show X' so the rest of us get it (or at least have an idea where the character is from).
> 
> I find this a lot in some of the shows with SciFi themes (The Big Bang Theory, Eurkea, Warehouse 13, The Event, etc.). Seems everyone in the SciFi community watches these same shows


Shaka, when the walls fell.



LoadStar said:


> Oh, and.... Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.


Picard and Dathon... at El-Adrel.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Oh, and.... Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.


Shaka, when the walls fell.

D'oh! That'll teach me not to look stuff up to make sure I got it right.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

LOL, I am handing in my geek creds and going to bed.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

I always preferred _Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam
_


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> In the Eureka thread someone mentioned a character from Star Trek Enterprise who they compared a character in Eureka to. As I am not a fan of STE, I didn't catch the reference, and I after a few other posts about the character I felt I was missing the inside joke.
> 
> So let me ask....does anyone think it would be cool if you mentioned a character from another show in a show or episode thread, that you just say something like "John Doe from Show X' so the rest of us get it (or at least have an idea where the character is from).
> 
> I find this a lot in some of the shows with SciFi themes (The Big Bang Theory, Eurkea, Warehouse 13, The Event, etc.). Seems everyone in the SciFi community watches these same shows


Isn't that the point of an Inside Joke? It should have to explain it, you either get it or you don't.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I pretty consistently populate my comments here and elsewhere on the internet with obscure references to other things, often with no attribution. I figure that if people get the reference, they get it. If they don't, they can either look it up or just go on thinking I said something inexplicably weird. I figure most of the people I'm friends with share a common pool of cultural references we draw from. The closer the friend, the more similar the knowledge base. The less close, the less likely they are to get the references, but also the less likely I am to care that they don't get it. I'd rather not annotate my comments, personally.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Come on, guys! Steveknj made a perfectly reasonable suggestion which reflects the thoughts of many more people on these threads. He asked for a minimal bit of info to put things in context for those who are not necessarily "in" on the reference.
I also waste a lot of time looking up stuff just to realize that if I had that extra bit of info I would just move on.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

I come across things on a web page everyday that I don't understand/recognize. It takes about 2 seconds to highlight the name/word and do a search. I then have the context and move along. This happens especially if someone refers to a sports figure or country music singer as those are big holes in my knowledge base.

At no time have I ever considered that the person who wrote what I was reading had messed up by not supplying supplemental information. Ignorance of a topic is my problem to deal with or to remedy.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Shaunnick said:


> I always preferred _Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam
> _


I had no idea what that meant. Right clicked and the first Google result was:

Everyday Klingon Phrases
www.kli.org/tlh/phrases.html
Today is a good day to die.​
Easy as could be.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

getreal said:


> Come on, guys! Steveknj made a perfectly reasonable suggestion which reflects the thoughts of many more people on these threads. He asked for a minimal bit of info to put things in context for those who are not necessarily "in" on the reference.
> I also waste a lot of time looking up stuff just to realize that if I had that extra bit of info I would just move on.


You're right. I take it back. My bad.1

1 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/socia...sconsin-national-guard_n_822225_77315672.html


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

loubob57 said:


> Shaka, when the walls fell.
> 
> D'oh! That'll teach me not to look stuff up to make sure I got it right.


Smeak, his eyes covered.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> Smeak, his eyes covered.


But it's not a smeek if it wasn't there before I posted. I swear! 

If you're really interested here's all the Tamarian phrases.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

LoadStar said:


> Oh, and.... Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.





Fish Man said:


> Shaka, when the walls fell.
> 
> Picard and Dathon... at El-Adrel.





Shaunnick said:


> I always preferred _Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam
> _


You guys are just totally cracking me up!!!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Oh, and.... Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.


Shaka, when the walls fell. 

EDIT: smeek, when the posts duplicated


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> Smeak, his eyes covered.





busyba said:


> Shaka, when the walls fell.
> 
> EDIT: smeek, when the posts duplicated


Ohh - the rare double/meta smeek!


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

"Darmok and Jalad on the ocean." 

That's a Star Trek: TNG ep. reference.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

busyba said:


> smeek, when the posts duplicated


Now _that_ made me laugh out loud!

Very, very good.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Oh, and.... Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.


That's hilarious.

Ka-pla! (yeah, unrelated reference)


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

lol, I've been rewatching the STTNG episodes while I sit on the computer surfing. Fun times.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

Shaunnick said:


> I always preferred _Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam
> _


batlh bIHeghjaj


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

getreal said:


> Come on, guys! Steveknj made a perfectly reasonable suggestion which reflects the thoughts of many more people on these threads. He asked for a minimal bit of info to put things in context for those who are not necessarily "in" on the reference.
> I also waste a lot of time looking up stuff just to realize that if I had that extra bit of info I would just move on.


Exactly. It's really not too difficult to put the show name in next to the character. I'm not talking about real pop culture people that most people know (I didn't watch the original Star Trek for instance, but I know who Spock and Kirk were, but some character from season 2 episode 1? Not a chance).

I guess you all know this is a pet peeve of mine. I hate being on the outside of some joke. You know I kill the show Community for doing the same thing. If you think it's unreasonable to ask just to reference the show, then I guess just move on.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Idearat said:


> I had no idea what that meant. Right clicked and the first Google result was:
> 
> Everyday Klingon Phrases
> www.kli.org/tlh/phrases.html
> ...


And one of two things happen, I get information and it's interesting, or I wasted 5 minutes of my life. Putting the show title in the reference saves me those 5 minutes.

Sometimes I read these threads while multitasking.....don't always have time to look up things. But hey, I guess it's unreasonable to type in an extra 2 or 3 words.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Tobashadow said:


> batlh bIHeghjaj


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Exactly. It's really not too difficult to put the show name in next to the character. I'm not talking about real pop culture people that most people know (I didn't watch the original Star Trek for instance, but I know who Spock and Kirk were, but some character from season 2 episode 1? Not a chance).
> 
> I guess you all know this is a pet peeve of mine. I hate being on the outside of some joke. You know I kill the show Community for doing the same thing. If you think it's unreasonable to ask just to reference the show, then I guess just move on.


In many cases I'd agree about an inside joke being, well, inside.. but Wesley Crusher has gone so much further that it really has gained life on it's own, especially with Wil Wheaton being such a good sport and active in show business the past few years.


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## MikeCC (Jun 19, 2004)

I think the need for the extra information is usually a matter of context.

Both Eureka and ST:TNG are in the sci-fi genre, although Eureka tilts a little more toward fantasy... Given that, it would not be unreasonable for LoadStar, who made the Wesley Crusher reference, to assume that a fair portion of the TV audience overlapped, and was familiar with both. Since Wesley was a fixture on ST:TNG over many seasons, he is not exactly an obscure character to those ST fans.

Admittedly, not everyone who watches a particular sci-fi show is familiar with all others. I haven't caught more than an ep or two of any of the Stargate series. Or of the Babylon series. So I'd be at a loss with those character references. But were some made that I didn't understand, as is often the case, I'd either look it up or move on, knowing it likely had a sci-fi commonality.

Now, if LoadStar made a reference in the Eureka thread to a character from, say, a Bruce Lee movie, or a James Patterson book, then he'd be wise to give the extra info you crave.

To me, it's the context of the reference, however obscure.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Exactly. It's really not too difficult to put the show name in next to the character. I'm not talking about real pop culture people that most people know (I didn't watch the original Star Trek for instance, but I know who Spock and Kirk were, but some character from season 2 episode 1? Not a chance).


There're a lot of Star Trek fans who wish Wesley Crushers was just "some character from season 2 episode 1". Sadly for them he was all too frequently a guest star.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Jonathan_S said:


> Sadly for them he was all too frequently a guest star.


He wasn't a guest star. He was a top-line actor on the show during seasons 1-4 - he was in the title credits and everything. He was a recurring guest star after that point.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> And one of two things happen, I get information and it's interesting, or I wasted 5 minutes of my life. Putting the show title in the reference saves me those 5 minutes.
> 
> Sometimes I read these threads while multitasking.....don't always have time to look up things. But hey, I guess it's unreasonable to type in an extra 2 or 3 words.


So because you don't want to "waste" 5 minutes of your life, everyone else on the internet should spend an extra 1-2 to make your life easier???


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

People should do what ESPN did for Dennis Miller when he was on Monday Night Football.
(The comedian Dennis Miller was known for using obscure references when he was a commentator on Monday Night Football) They put together a website that explained each reference which you can see here: http://espn.go.com/abcsports/mnf/s/annotatedmiller/archive.html

Or people could just look the stuff up if understanding the reference is that important to them.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Apparently making a polite and simple request for a little "common courtesy" is so objectionable to some people here that it is UNcommon to them. :down: Perpetuating the stereotype of the "arrogant, ugly American".

Moving on ...


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

getreal said:


> Apparently making a polite and simple request for a little "common courtesy" is so objectionable to some people here that it is UNcommon to them. :down: Perpetuating the stereotype of the "arrogant, ugly American".
> 
> Moving on ...


 Just because some people may disagree means we're "arrogant ugly Americans"? Whatever. Get off your high horse.


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## MikeCC (Jun 19, 2004)

Sheesh... part of the fun of an inside joke, is that it _*is *_inside! People in the know get it, others don't. No biggie.

For example, on Franklin and Bash last ep (if I may take this topic just a little afield) the grey bearded stern judge was not looking favorably on a defendent who was caught with a lot of marijuana. What made this scene an inside joke was the judge was played by Tommy Chong. But nothing was hinted or referenced in the episode.

Very funny.

Inside jokes, and the reluctance to have to explain them to the unfamiliar, is no more a characteristic of the "ugly American" than is an overly meek, too politcically correct attitude a characteristic of a Canadian... eh?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MikeCC said:


> Sheesh... part of the fun of an inside joke, is that it _*is *_inside! People in the know get it, others don't. No biggie.
> 
> For example, on Franklin and Bash last ep (if I may take this topic just a little afield) the grey bearded stern judge was not looking favorably on a defendent who was caught with a lot of marijuana. What made this scene an inside joke was the judge was played by Tommy Chong *(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Chong)*. But nothing was hinted or referenced in the episode.
> 
> ...


FYP.


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> (Maybe it's just my innate curiosity, but any time there's something I don't know about or don't know ENOUGH about, I'll google it, or Wikipedia it. I'm CONSTANTLY looking stuff up. I would say I sit with an extra tab open to a Google search or Wikipedia window 90% of the time.)


OT, but you might appreciate the hyperwords Firefox extension. It pulls up a context menu anytime you highlight something and gives you options on what you want to do with it. For reference you can pull up the Wikipedia article on something in a popup instead of opening it in another tab. Also lets you do cool things like convert numbers or translate text without opening any web page at all...anyway, no affiliation with them or anything, but think it is a pretty cool extension.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> Oh, and.... Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.


I'm going through TNG right now on Netflix Streaming. I'm on this episode right now. Season 5 episode 2 if anyone wants to know.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Frylock said:


> So because you don't want to "waste" 5 minutes of your life, everyone else on the internet should spend an extra 1-2 to make your life easier???


hmmmm...u must type slow if it takes 1-2 minutes to type about 15 characters


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Azlen said:


> People should do what ESPN did for Dennis Miller when he was on Monday Night Football.
> (The comedian Dennis Miller was known for using obscure references when he was a commentator on Monday Night Football) They put together a website that explained each reference which you can see here: http://espn.go.com/abcsports/mnf/s/annotatedmiller/archive.html
> 
> Or people could just look the stuff up if understanding the reference is that important to them.


And Dennis Miller lasted about 1 season on MNF precisely for that reason. Most of what he said went over the head of the majority of his audience.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

MikeCC said:


> Sheesh... part of the fun of an inside joke, is that it _*is *_inside! People in the know get it, others don't. No biggie.
> 
> For example, on Franklin and Bash last ep (if I may take this topic just a little afield) the grey bearded stern judge was not looking favorably on a defendent who was caught with a lot of marijuana. What made this scene an inside joke was the judge was played by Tommy Chong. But nothing was hinted or referenced in the episode.
> 
> ...


Really, is typing Wesley Crusher from ST (whatever), kills the inside joke?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Really, is typing Wesley Crusher from ST (whatever), kills the inside joke?


Ok, it wasn't an "inside joke" because it wasn't really a joke, per se.

Even if I had said "Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG," I would have still had to spend time explaining who Wesley Crusher was as a character for the reference to make sense. Even after all that explaining, if you didn't watch TNG, your reaction almost certainly would be to mentally shrug and move on, because while you then would have understood *why* I referenced the character in the way I did, it still wouldn't mean much to you because you didn't watch TNG and didn't know or care who Wesley was until I made the reference.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

getreal said:


> Apparently making a polite and simple request for a little "common courtesy" is so objectionable to some people here that it is UNcommon to them. :down: Perpetuating the stereotype of the "arrogant, ugly American".
> 
> Moving on ...


Great, I hadn't even posted in this thread, and now I have been lumped in as an arrogant, ugly American! Thanks a lot! Generalize much?

What am I supposed to do to redeem myself? Go through and post links to all the references other people are making?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Ok, it wasn't an "inside joke" because it wasn't really a joke, per se.
> 
> Even if I had said "Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG," I would have still had to spend time explaining who Wesley Crusher was as a character for the reference to make sense. Even after all that explaining, if you didn't watch TNG, your reaction almost certainly would be to mentally shrug and move on, because while you then would have understood *why* I referenced the character in the way I did, it still wouldn't mean much to you because you didn't watch TNG and didn't know or care who Wesley was until I made the reference.


I think you're missing the point. If you had put Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG, then at least I would have know it was a Star Trek reference, not cared and moved on. Now if it had been a reference about something I really cared about, then, either I'd have known about it, or, I would have googled it.

I guess it's not a big deal, only I see this all the time, and sometimes it goes on for pages and pages. I feel like I'm supposed to know this and it's an obvious comparison. I think sometimes we are such fans of a topic that it gets lost that others aren't.

So, is it a big deal to just reference the character with the show (s)he's in?


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I think you're missing the point. If you had put Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG, then at least I would have know it was a Star Trek reference, not cared and moved on.


How is that different from not knowing who the reference is about, not caring and moving on?

Really - if you have to explain it, it's not funny. It's not always a character from a show. Asking everybody to put in references to anything they mention that it outside of the strict topic being discussed is ridiculous.

References like the one mentioned in the OP are what pop culture is all about. If you don't understand it, look it up or ask. If you don't care, move on.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I was watching Eureka last night, and someone there made a reference to another sci-fi show. They didn't mention what show, but just referenced the character. Then I realized just how much that happens. They don't tell you what they are referencing.

Then there are phrases we will have to change:

"No sh*t, (Arthur Conan Doyle's fictional detective) Sherlock (Holmes)!"
"Nice move (famous theoretical physicist, Albert) Einstein!"

The list goes on and on. Where do we draw the line?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I think you're missing the point. If you had put Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG, then at least I would have know it was a Star Trek reference, not cared and moved on. Now if it had been a reference about something I really cared about, then, either I'd have known about it, or, I would have googled it.


That's a bit confusing... if someone makes a reference and you don't know what they're talking about, just google it - I do that pretty often. I select, right-click, and click "Search Google".


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

What about when people refer to a character in a show by the name of a previous character the same actor played in a different show?

I know I've done this---for example, in the _Torchwood_ thread, something bad happened to the character Agent Peterfield (played by actress Dichen Lachman). I said "Poor Sierra!", referring to a character that Lachman played on _Dollhouse_...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> That's a bit confusing... if someone makes a reference and you don't know what they're talking about, just google it - I do that pretty often. I select, right-click, and click "Search Google".


Takes time to search Google, takes VERY LITTLE time to type in 10-15 characters with the show the character is from. I still don't get how putting the name of the show next to the character kills the joke?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

markz said:


> I was watching Eureka last night, and someone there made a reference to another sci-fi show. They didn't mention what show, but just referenced the character. Then I realized just how much that happens. They don't tell you what they are referencing.
> 
> Then there are phrases we will have to change:
> 
> ...


This isn't a TV show, this is friendly discussion. And, I was not asking to do this with characters everyone knows. In your example above, I wouldn't expect to have to do this for Sherlock Holmes or Albert Einstein. Those are pop culture or historical characters we all know. Notice the thread, OBSCURE characters. I wouldn't expect you to put the show name in for Captain Kirk, or Ross and Rachel or Jerry Seinfeld and George Costanza. But from those same shows, I'd expect it for a character from Star Trek that appears in an episode or two that Trekkies would know but non Trekkies wouldn't. Or for Friends, explain that the Hanukah Armadillo was described in Friends, or, what show The Drake was from. Then let the post reader decide if it's worth his time to look up something from a show he never watches, instead of feeling that he's "missing" something.

I guess I'm outvoted on this....typing a few extra characters so that some posters will have a better understanding of what you are trying to say is just too much to ask for I guess.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Takes time to search Google, takes VERY LITTLE time to type in 10-15 characters with the show the character is from. I still don't get how putting the name of the show next to the character kills the joke?


OK, so if they mention the show and you don't recognize the show, then what? Should they list details about the show as well?

"Wesley Crusher (character on _Star Trek: The Next Generation_, a sci-fi show set in the same fictional universe as the original _Star Trek_ TV show (and subsequent movies), both created by Gene Roddenberry. On _Star Trek: The Next Generation_, Wesley Crusher would oftentimes...)"


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> This isn't a TV show, this is friendly discussion. And, I was not asking to do this with characters everyone knows. In your example above, I wouldn't expect to have to do this for Sherlock Holmes or Albert Einstein. Those are pop culture or historical characters we all know. Notice the thread, OBSCURE characters. I wouldn't expect you to put the show name in for Captain Kirk, or Ross and Rachel or Jerry Seinfeld and George Costanza. But from those same shows, I'd expect it for a character from Star Trek that appears in an episode or two that Trekkies would know but non Trekkies wouldn't. Or for Friends, explain that the Hanukah Armadillo was described in Friends, or, what show The Drake was from. Then let the post reader decide if it's worth his time to look up something from a show he never watches, instead of feeling that he's "missing" something.
> 
> I guess I'm outvoted on this....typing a few extra characters so that some posters will have a better understanding of what you are trying to say is just too much to ask for I guess.


For me, Wesley Crusher isn't an obscure character. Star Trek: TNG was hugely popular for many years, spawning multiple movies, and Wesley was on the show for multiple seasons (and in one or more of the movies).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> OK, so if they mention the show and you don't recognize the show, then what? Should they list details about the show as well?
> 
> "Wesley Crusher (character on _Star Trek: The Next Generation_, a sci-fi show set in the same fictional universe as the original _Star Trek_ TV show (and subsequent movies), both created by Gene Roddenberry. On _Star Trek: The Next Generation_, Wesley Crusher would oftentimes...)"


No, a simple Wesely Crusher on Star Trek: TNG is sufficient. Since I don't watch the show, I can decide, do I want to spend time Googling the reference or not? By just typing Wesley Crusher, my first thought was...am I missing some character on the show I'm watching? Am I missing something I'm not privvy to? At least knowing what show the reference comes from, gives me some idea what the poster is talking about. It really gets old after awhile having to Google a lot of obscure references.

The Dennis Miller example mentioned was perfect. After awhile, he turned off so many viewers with his obscure references that viewers tuned HIM out.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> For me, Wesley Crusher isn't an obscure character. Star Trek: TNG was hugely popular for many years, spawning multiple movies, and Wesley was on the show for multiple seasons (and in one or more of the movies).


Here's the test to me anyway....if you ask 10 people who don't watch the show who the character is, and less than half can tell you, then it's obscure. Bet you ask 10 non-Trekkies who Capt. Kirk is and 9 can tell you.

But at this point, I'm just smashing my head against the wall.

Carry on.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> No, a simple Wesely Crusher on Star Trek: TNG is sufficient. Since I don't watch the show, I can decide, do I want to spend time Googling the reference or not? By just typing Wesley Crusher, my first thought was...am I missing some character on the show I'm watching? Am I missing something I'm not privvy to? At least knowing what show the reference comes from, gives me some idea what the poster is talking about. It really gets old after awhile having to Google a lot of obscure references.
> 
> The Dennis Miller example mentioned was perfect. After awhile, he turned off so many viewers with his obscure references that viewers tuned HIM out.


That sort of makes sense... the key would be to know when that's needed. Based on what you've said, it would unnecessary to say "Star Trek's Captain Kirk" or "Star Trek's Mr. Spock", but what about "Star Trek:TNG's Captain Picard", or "Star Trek:TNG's Mr. Worf"?


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Here's the test to me anyway....if you ask 10 people who don't watch the show who the character is, and less than half can tell you, then it's obscure. Bet you ask 10 non-Trekkies who Capt. Kirk is and 9 can tell you.
> 
> But at this point, I'm just smashing my head against the wall.
> 
> Carry on.


What about if you asked 10 people who are participating in the current thread (not this thread, but the Eureka thread)?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I always laughed when Tim Stack was on "My Name Is Earl" and was credited and referred to as "TV's Tim Stack".


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

BrettStah said:


> What about if you asked 10 people who are participating in the current thread (not this thread, but the Eureka thread)?


There ya go- it speaks to knowing your audience and phrasing to suit. One would expect the Eureka crowd to know- a quilting club not so much.

I freaking google everything.
It there was a contest as to who googled the most I am certain this household would win.
It is the single greatest improvement in quality of life that I have seen during my lifetime and IMO anyone who isn't in the *habit* of using it freely is missing out.
*Habit.*

Annotations and links attached to every sentence would be ridiculous and render snide comments and inside jokes extinct and we can't have that.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Cearbhaill said:


> It is the single greatest improvement in quality of life that I have seen during my lifetime and IMO anyone who isn't in the *habit* of using it freely is missing out.
> *Habit.*


I had to google that, and I'm not sure I get the reference. What do small furry-footed humanoids that live in a shire have to do with this?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> There ya go- it speaks to knowing your audience and phrasing to suit. One would expect the Eureka crowd to know- a quilting club not so much.
> 
> I freaking google everything.
> It there was a contest as to who googled the most I am certain this household would win.
> ...


Who said EVERY sentence? Who said links or annotations. I think you're blowing this completely out of proportion. Man, I expected blowback, but some of this is a little crazy. You'd think I asked you to put in a paragraph about each character!!!

Maybe in a thread about Eureka, it's not a stretch to think most people would know a character from another SciFi show, but I've seen the same type of thing in shows that have nothing in common with the character referenced. So, again, you think mentioning the show's name kills the inside joke? Does it do that anymore than if someone in the thread asks what you are talking about and someone else types in the WHOLE reference and what it means? We've all seen that too.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


> I freaking google everything.
> It there was a contest as to who googled the most I am certain this household would win.
> It is the single greatest improvement in quality of life that I have seen during my lifetime[/B]


My wife and I would be right there with you. We google everything too! And the second most used website we reference a lot is IMDB (Internet Movie DataBase).

We can't get through a night without whipping out a phone to look something up on one or the other!


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> Who said EVERY sentence? Who said links or annotations. I think you're blowing this completely out of proportion. Man, I expected blowback, but some of this is a little crazy. You'd think I asked you to put in a paragraph about each character!!!


You're very excitable today


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Cearbhaill said:


> You're very excitable today


Warren Zevon reference - Excitable Boy


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

But the better reply would have been _"I'm just an excitable boy."_

See the difference?
*The right people will get it.*


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Takes time to search Google, takes VERY LITTLE time to type in 10-15 characters with the show the character is from. I still don't get how putting the name of the show next to the character kills the joke?


I highlight the name, right click, and select "Search Google For".
Doesn't seem that difficult to me.



Steveknj said:


> The Dennis Miller example mentioned was perfect. After awhile, he turned off so many viewers with his obscure references that viewers tuned HIM out.


That's actually a bad example because you're talking about two different audiences.

As pointed out by others, when it's a nominally Science Fiction show on what was formerly the Sci Fi channel, it's really a pretty safe assumption that the majority of your audience would know who Wesley Crusher is.

It's not like they made a reference to "My Dinner with Andre" in a Wrestling thread.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Here's the test to me anyway....if you ask 10 people who don't watch the show who the character is, and less than half can tell you, then it's obscure. Bet you ask 10 non-Trekkies who Capt. Kirk is and 9 can tell you.


So for each reference we want to make in a post, we need to separately poll 10 people to find out if enough people get the reference so that we don't need to include a cite?


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

You know what, if people don't get a reference I throw out (obscure or not), that is really not my problem.

I have been throwing out obscure references my entire life - long before the internet or google or any of this stuff.

You get it or you don't, and you move on. I get zoomed on occasion myself - if I am interested enough, I will make the effort to do some research. If I'm not, I don't.

It should be the referencer's "responsibility" to explain something. If you want to know, take on the responsibility and do the research yourself. It's not my job to educate anyone!

Yeesh.


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

Ah Zathras was... quiet one.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

markz said:


> I always laughed when Tim Stack was on "My Name Is Earl" and was credited and referred to as "TV's Tim Stack".


You mean Notch Johnson?


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

BrettStah said:


> For me, Wesley Crusher isn't an obscure character. Star Trek: TNG was hugely popular for many years, spawning multiple movies, and Wesley was on the show for multiple seasons (and in one or more of the movies).


I haven't bothered to count but I'm pretty sure Wesley Crusher has a higher episode count (and quite possibly higher total screen time) that Captain Kirk.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

BrettStah said:


> For me, Wesley Crusher isn't an obscure character. Star Trek: TNG was hugely popular for many years, spawning multiple movies, and Wesley was on the show for multiple seasons (and in one or more of the movies).


Officially, none of the movies. He filmed a cameo appearance in the wedding reception scene in "Nemesis," and was scheduled to have a much more substantial appearance in a scene with Patrick Stewart, but neither made final cut. (Actually, I think if you pause the screen in just the right point, you can still see him very briefly.)


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

ihatecable said:


> Ah Zathras was... quiet one.


No, not Zathras.... you're thinking of Zathras.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

busyba said:


> No, not Zathras.... you're thinking of Zathras.


Who?

Oh, got it thanks to Google. Never watched much of that show. I should go back and watch it sometime.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> I haven't bothered to count but I'm pretty sure Wesley Crusher has a higher episode count (and quite possibly higher total screen time) that Captain Kirk.


Episodes, ok. Wesley has 85 episodes to Kirk's 79 according to IMDB.

But screen time? No way. And absolutely no way if you include movies.

btw... Kirk has 79 TOS episodes while Spock has 80. I wonder which episode Kirk wasn't in... 

EDIT: Oh, I just realized that it's probably the pilot episode.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

LoadStar said:


> Officially, none of the movies. He filmed a cameo appearance in the wedding reception scene in "Nemesis," and was scheduled to have a much more substantial appearance in a scene with Patrick Stewart, but neither made final cut. (Actually, I think if you pause the screen in just the right point, you can still see him very briefly.)


Thanks... couldn't recall but was sure he was in at least one of them. IMDB mentions him being in "Nemesis", FWIW: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0253754/fullcredits#cast


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

BrettStah said:


> Thanks... couldn't recall but was sure he was in at least one of them. IMDB mentions him being in "Nemesis", FWIW: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0253754/fullcredits#cast


I don't think he was in the official credits, but I'd have to go back and look. He ended up with no lines, and could only be seen *very* briefly sitting next to Beverly Crusher at the reception table.

The scene he filmed that was ultimately cut:




It's actually a good thing it was cut, IMO, because it really reverts him back to the annoying Wesley Crusher from very early seasons, and not the somewhat more mature Wesley as an ensign and cadet. It also had no point, except as a token way of bringing Wil Wheaton back into the TNG fold before the end.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

BrettStah said:


> That sort of makes sense... the key would be to know when that's needed. Based on what you've said, it would unnecessary to say "Star Trek's Captain Kirk" or "Star Trek's Mr. Spock", but what about "Star Trek:TNG's Captain Picard", or "Star Trek:TNG's Mr. Worf"?


You can't just say TNG without an explanation of what it is.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Cultural references lose their value if you have to explain the reference while you're making it. It makes the writing less witty, and pointless.

It's not like making a reference to ehopper's tamales. 

These aren't "inside jokes." And it's not obscure either.

I'm literally (meaning figuratively) baffled by this request.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

An inside reference explained is no longer an inside reference. How many times do people here mention "4 or 5 times". I can't remember the last time someone explained what that means.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

BeanMeScot said:


> An inside reference explained is no longer an inside reference. How many times do people here mention "4 or 5 times". I can't remember the last time someone explained what that means.


That reference was just made today!


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I think you're missing the point. If you had put Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG, then at least I would have know it was a Star Trek reference, not cared and moved on. Now if it had been a reference about something I really cared about, then, either I'd have known about it, or, I would have googled it.


Isn't it kind of arrogant to assume that other people don't know something, and you have to explain it to them, otherwise they won't get it?


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

One upon a time, I visited CalTech, where a friend was going to school, and he invited us down into the (fairly famous) steam tunnels.

Scrawled on a pipe down in the bowels of the campus was the phrase "CE'NEDRA S--KS C--KS!" 

It would've been MUCH less funny if the graffiti was "CE'NEDRA* S--KS C--KS!"

"*http://www.amazon.com/Belgariad-Vol...6327/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311843556&sr=8-1"

The thing about cultural literacy is that it's NOT uniform, and it's the similarities and differences that define us to each other. Even in preschool, I see kids start the year, some of whom watch TV and movies and others who don't and they spend months talking about what each other has seen and read and likes and doesn't like. They influence each other as they try to find a common ground they can interact from. My 4 yr. old, who plays NO computer games, drew a picture of "Angry Birds" that looks exactly like the game and no one in our home/family owned a copy of Angry Birds at the time. But she's at the age where one forms ones identity by comparing and contrasting yourself to your peers. Eventually, you move on past that stage and accept that different people have had different experiences (and some common ones with you).

And then, after years of this stuff, you climb down into a steam tunnel and see a message scrawled on a pipe with no explanation and the fact that you "get" it sends you a much stronger message----that there's a person out there that you've never met who has never met you but who is like you and understands you and appreciates what you appreciate. 17 letters and you've formed a bond with a complete stranger and instantly know what to expect from that person. There's an instant level of trust formed on commonality.

Dogs sniff each others' rears. Humans exchange small, dense, coded packets of information. The result is the same. It allows you to make a much quicker judgement about whether you can trust the stranger and, for pack animals (which both dogs and humans are) the ability to trust another individual can be a life-or-death difference in some situations. Yeah, as modern humans we don't use it that way so much, certainly not in the case of sci-fi in-jokes, but it happens because it's something we're biologically hard-wired to do as pack animals.

(Spouse and I make so many unexplained references, not in-jokes per se because we're not trying to be funny, that people who are with us sometimes can't follow the conversation at all. Of course, we don't talk TO the people who are with us that way (that would be rude), but when we fall into this kind of talk, we're trying to communicate with each other very quickly and it's just more efficient and it's not really important that the other random person with us understand it, because we're not talking to them.)


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

markz said:


> That reference was just made today!


That's pretty gaunt...


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> That's pretty gaunt...


I think you mean goth.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

murgatroyd said:


> Isn't it kind of arrogant to assume that other people don't know something, and you have to explain it to them, otherwise they won't get it?


It seems like the definition of _obscure_ is "something I don't know."

The fact that it is in response to a major character from a long running TV show on an internet forum full of nerds and dedicated to TV is even more bizzarre.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> In the Eureka thread someone mentioned a character from Star Trek Enterprise who they compared a character in Eureka to. As I am not a fan of STE, I didn't catch the reference, and I after a few other posts about the character I felt I was missing the inside joke.
> 
> So let me ask....does anyone think it would be cool if you mentioned a character from another show in a show or episode thread, that you just say something like "John Doe from Show X' so the rest of us get it (or at least have an idea where the character is from).
> 
> I find this a lot in some of the shows with SciFi themes (The Big Bang Theory, Eurkea, Warehouse 13, The Event, etc.). Seems everyone in the SciFi community watches these same shows


Your problem is that only you know what your level of ignorance of popular, or by your words, obscure, culture is. Whatever you know is OK to discuss, but if someone knows something or someone you don't, you expect them to cite a reference, as if they would know your level of ignorance. It's a ridiculously arbitrary and unfair request.

I get probably get more than 95% of the references on MST3000 (and yes, I abbreviated that on purpose). But most of my friends don't, so I need to pause it a lot to explain the joke, as I'm laughing and they're not. (I get a similar amount of the references in Dennis Miller's jokes, but he stopped being funny after 9/11. But I still get the references.) The trouble with explaining the references is, although someone may now get the context, it's almost never funny to them. The joke part has passed.

I have a friend that I enjoy going to the movies with, as we both get the same jokes. There were many parts in many movies where we were the only ones laughing, as no one else was getting the references. What, we're not supposed to laugh?

It's different on the internet, as many others have already pointed out, because if you don't get it, it's ridiculously simple to look it up, and maybe even educate yourself a little. Oh, the horror of expanding your horizons.

I cite obscure references all the time in my posts. If only one person in 200 gets it, I'm OK with that, as I know I made a stranger smile, or even once in a while laugh, when they were least expecting it.

BTW, John Doe was Dominic Purcell.


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> George Costanza.


Who?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

JYoung said:


> I highlight the name, right click, and select "Search Google For".
> Doesn't seem that difficult to me.
> 
> That's actually a bad example because you're talking about two different audiences.
> ...


But you're taking this as if it's JUST about Sci Fi. I'm talking in general. Notice the title? It's not about Wesley Crusher and SciFi shows in general. This was Wesley Crusher guy is just the example I'm using. I get your point, that in a thread about a SciFi show, it's ok to talk about OTHER SciFi characters (although if I wanted to be a stickler about it, I could say...I never saw the show, it's an untagged spoiler.)

I find it funny how it seems that this has become a personal affront to all the SciFi geek's street cred.

I guess I'm not a SciFi geek, but enjoy the odd SciFi show


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> But you're taking this as if it's JUST about Sci Fi. I'm talking in general. Notice the title? It's not about Wesley Crusher and SciFi shows in general. This was Wesley Crusher guy is just the example I'm using. I get your point, that in a thread about a SciFi show, it's ok to talk about OTHER SciFi characters (although if I wanted to be a stickler about it, I could say...I never saw the show, it's an untagged spoiler.)
> 
> I find it funny how it seems that this has become a personal affront to all the SciFi geek's street cred.
> 
> I guess I'm not a SciFi geek, but enjoy the odd SciFi show


(1) But how do we know what references _you_get and which ones we don't?

(2) Explaining allusions ruins writing.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

BeanMeScot said:


> An inside reference explained is no longer an inside reference. How many times do people here mention "4 or 5 times". I can't remember the last time someone explained what that means.


Again, I'm not asking you to EXPLAIN anything, just put in the show he's from. How is that EXPLAINING anything?


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Vendikarr said:


> Who?


Art Vandelay


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> It seems like the definition of _obscure_ is "something I don't know."
> 
> The fact that it is in response to a major character from a long running TV show on an internet forum full of nerds and dedicated to TV is even more bizzarre.


I guess I'm wrong about Wesley Crusher as I didn't realize he was a major character....my bad.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> (1) But how do we know what references _you_get and which ones we don't?
> 
> (2) Explaining allusions ruins writing.


You assume they don't get it and go from there.

Whatever, i guess I've been beat up enough on this. I guess typing a show title next to an obscure character (not named Wesely Crusher), is just a bad idea.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I think part of the problem is that how do you determine how obscure a character is? Wesley certainly wouldn't qualify in my book--he was a major recurring character on _ST:TNG_. If you watched _ST:TNG_, you would know who he was. And if you didn't...well, then all the characters might seem equally obscure.

In my mind, if a character is really obscure, then the author will know to put a reference or else no one will understand...for example, there's a big difference between saying something like "Wesley saves the day again!" and "That ought to be one of Lefler's Laws"... If we weren't already talking about _ST:TNG_, I wouldn't expect anyone to get the second reference...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> I think part of the problem is that how do you determine how obscure a character is? Wesley certainly wouldn't qualify in my book--he was a major recurring character on _ST:TNG_. If you watched _ST:TNG_, you would know who he was. And if you didn't...well, then all the characters might seem equally obscure.
> 
> In my mind, if a character is really obscure, then the author will know to put a reference or else no one will understand...for example, there's a big difference between saying something like "Wesley saves the day again!" and "That ought to be one of Lefler's Laws"... If we weren't already talking about _ST:TNG_, I wouldn't expect anyone to get the second reference...


I get that, and I tend to forget, since I'm NOT one, that the majority of folks here are SciFi geeks. Eureka or Warehouse 13 or Falling Skies is about as deep into SciFi as I care to ever get. So yeah, a mention of a character in a Eureka thread from another show seems obscure to me, just as if you aren't a baseball history buff like I am, mentioning Cap Anson in a general thread about baseball will also have the masses running to google to find out who he is (He was a player for the late 19th Century Cubs...he's in the Hall of Fame). But in a thread about BASEBALL HISTORY, most people would know who he is. So lets say I'm in a general baseball thread, and I say so and so hits like Cap Anson did. I could clarify with a few words like I did here, and save those uninterested the time it takes to Google, or I could leave it at that, and leave many of the posters scratching their head, and letting them google it on their time. I'm just trying to be nice by the little few word reference.

I guess for a show like Eureka, the majority of viewers are Sci Fi fans? I'm not sure about that, but apparently here that is the case. That's fine. I mistook my audience. I figured maybe it would just be nice to save some time for your fellow TCFers. I'll go back to posting "who's so and so" again and I won't ask this anymore.


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> You assume they don't get it and go from there.
> 
> Whatever, i guess I've been beat up enough on this. I guess typing a show title next to an obscure character (not named Wesely Crusher), is just a bad idea.


But again, to people who watch a particular show, Person X may not BE an obscure character - and to someone who's never watched ANY episodes of even a highly popular show, /every/ character on that show is 'obscure'. How do we know where any person participating fits?

IE - I know who Wesley Crusher is. But when references to 'Samantha's men' started popping up, I had NO clue what it was about - because I have never, ever watched a single episode of 'Sex in the City'. It was really easy to look up and move on. So - if you were writing a comment in a thread about someone who was like a character in a show that was immensely popular, on for years, and you enjoyed - would you think you had to explain it? IE - would you expect someone to put a reference to 'SITC' next to 'Samantha' in the above context?

You did the same thing with 'George Costanza' earlier - you didn't explain the reference, because you assumed we all know who that is - why did you assume that? I know people who have never watched an episode of Seinfeld. Same with Ross & Rachel - plenty of people never watched Friends, and would have no clue.

I hated Buffy. I watched a few seasons of it 2 years ago because someone got it for me for Christmas, but it was awful. I hated The Wire. Never watched an episode of CSI in any iteration. Or House. Or Gray's Anatomy. Or Lost. Or Bachelor/Bachelorette. Or Survivor anything. Or The Amazing Race. Or ER. Those are all /incredibly/ popular shows. The fact that I'm not interested in them doesn't mean that anyone should assume that if they are going to make a reference to them in a thread for another show, I should expect that it is their responsibility to clue me in.

It's much easier for people to look things up if they need an explanation than for the person who is writing a post to try to explain everything in the post.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I'll go back to posting "who's so and so" again and I won't ask this anymore.


Or you could just highlight, right click, select "Search with Google," read the search results, and go "oh, that show."


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## Lori (Feb 20, 2000)

It ruins the flow. It sounds dorky.

Can you not see how "Don't make me go all Terminator on your ass" and "Don't make me go all Terminator (a super-violent cyborg assassin from a series of sci-fi films) on your ass" sound different?


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Lori said:


> It ruins the flow. It sounds dorky.
> 
> Can you not see how "Don't make me go all Terminator on your ass" and "Don't make me go all Terminator (a super-violent cyborg assassin from a series of sci-fi films) on your ass" sound different?


You've gotta explain cyborg, too.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Or you could just highlight, right click, select "Search with Google," read the search results, and go "oh, that show."


Nah, I'm probably not going to do that....takes too long. Easier to write "who's that?" and let you guys explain


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Lori said:


> It ruins the flow. It sounds dorky.
> 
> Can you not see how "Don't make me go all Terminator on your ass" and "Don't make me go all Terminator (a super-violent cyborg assassin from a series of sci-fi films) on your ass" sound different?


But, you keep missing what I'm saying....if you said go all Terminator...yada yada, then I know where it's from....from Terminator...no further explanation necessary. I never ASKED for an explanation of the reference (I've said that numerous times in this thread), just the SHOW/MOVIE/BOOK the reference is from. I don't want or need (a super-violent...whatever).


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> But, you keep missing what I'm saying....if you said go all Terminator...yada yada, then I know where it's from....from Terminator...no further explanation necessary. I never ASKED for an explanation of the reference (I've said that numerous times in this thread), just the SHOW/MOVIE/BOOK the reference is from. I don't want or need (a super-violent...whatever).


Wait, there's a movie called Terminator?


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## JoBeth66 (Feb 15, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> But, you keep missing what I'm saying....if you said go all Terminator...yada yada, then I know where it's from....from Terminator...no further explanation necessary. I never ASKED for an explanation of the reference (I've said that numerous times in this thread), just the SHOW/MOVIE/BOOK the reference is from. I don't want or need (a super-violent...whatever).


Seriously - do you do that for /every/ reference you make, on the off-chance that someone doesn't know what you're talking about?

That's what you're asking people to do - and you seem surprised that we think it's not a reasonable request. I can't 'know' whether everyone gets every reference, so I should assume that someone reading my post won't, and put an explanation next to it?

And why only for people? If someone says 'Inconceivable!', should they put <Princess Bride reference> next to it? If not, why not? Is it any different?


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Y'all are acting like a bunch of Sheldons.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> But, you keep missing what I'm saying....if you said go all Terminator...yada yada, then I know where it's from....from Terminator...no further explanation necessary. I never ASKED for an explanation of the reference (I've said that numerous times in this thread), just the SHOW/MOVIE/BOOK the reference is from. I don't want or need (a super-violent...whatever).


That response is as unreasonable as something Darth Vader would say.

Do you think that above statement should say "Darth Vader from Star Wars" or is it ok how it is?


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## Vendikarr (Feb 24, 2004)

LoadStar said:


> Or you could just highlight, right click, select "Search with Google," read the search results, and go "oh, that show."


That works just fine. I had no idea who George Costanza was, and now i know. I saw one episode of Seinfeld and hated it.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> But, you keep missing what I'm saying....if you said go all Terminator...yada yada, then I know where it's from....from Terminator...no further explanation necessary. I never ASKED for an explanation of the reference (I've said that numerous times in this thread), just the SHOW/MOVIE/BOOK the reference is from. I don't want or need (a super-violent...whatever).


How do you know that Terminator is a movie if somebody doesn't tell you?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

David Platt said:


> Y'all are acting like a bunch of Sheldons.


:up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

If I have a choice between insulting people who know what I'm talking about by spelling out a reference therefore implying they're ignorant, or annoying the genuinely ignorant by not spelling it out, I think I'll just continue to annoy the genuinely ignorant. 

(Of whom, in many contexts, I am one. Then again, select text, right-click, "Search Google For" isn't a hardship for me.)


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I give.....gonna go clean my bloody nose...carry on.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I give.....gonna go clean my bloody nose...carry on.


I have a feeling you are gonna have it pointed out every time you make a reference to something without telling us what it's from.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I give.....gonna go clean my bloody nose...carry on.


What movie is that from?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

markz said:


> I have a feeling you are gonna have it pointed out every time you make a reference to something without telling us what it's from.


No. That wouldn't be fair to people who haven't seen this thread and wouldn't get the reference.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

We could make a thread with pointers to all the references we make (like a wiki), then put a link to that thread in all our signatures and then just can post away!


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

markz said:


> We could make a thread with pointers to all the references we make (like a wiki), then put a link to that thread in all our signatures and then just can post away!


And now the references need references?
That seems like an awful lot of trouble just to pacify some random outlier weirdo nitpicker .


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

David Platt said:


> Y'all are acting like a bunch of Sheldons.


Herbert Herbert Herbert


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Lori said:


> It ruins the flow. It sounds dorky.
> 
> Can you not see how "Don't make me go all Terminator on your ass" and "Don't make me go all Terminator (a super-violent cyborg assassin from a series of sci-fi films) on your ass" sound different?


I thought we were just suppose to put the title? 
So "Don't make me go all Terminator (Terminator) on your ass"


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

markz said:


> We could make a thread with pointers to all the references we make (like a wiki), then put a link to that thread in all our signatures and then just can post away!


Or, how about a link to google?


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

ihatecable said:


> Herbert Herbert Herbert


Ref: Spock: "Herbert was a minor official - notorious for his rigid and limited patterns of thought. "

Star Trek: TOS 'The Way to Eden.'


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

RGM1138 said:


> Ref: Spock: "Herbert was a minor official - notorious for his rigid and limited patterns of thought. "
> 
> Star Trek: TOS 'The Way to Eden.'


Star Trek: *The Original Series*, otherwise simply known as Star Trek. "The Way to Eden," episode #76 / season 3 episode 20. Original air date, 21 February, 1969.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Church AV Guy said:


> Star Trek: *The Original Series*, otherwise simply known as Star Trek. "The Way to Eden," episode #76 / season 3 episode 20. Original air date, 21 February, 1969.


Well played.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

David Platt said:


> Y'all are acting like a bunch of Sheldons.


fixed my own post:



David Platt said:


> Y'all are acting like a bunch of Sheldons, referring to the second male lead on 'The Big Bang Theory,' Sheldon Cooper, played by Emmy-nominated actor Jim Parsons. Cooper routinely displays an absolutely inflexible approach to social interactions and a lack of awareness of how he comes across that many believe him to have Asperger Syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. 'The Big Bang Theory' is a popular CBS sitcom executive produced by Chuck Lorre, a producer of such popular American sitcoms as 'Two and Half Men' and 'Mike & Molly,' who became embroiled in the Charlie Sheen (nee Carlos Estevez) implosion when Sheen took great pride in 'outing' his semetic alter-ego Chaim Levine.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

balboa dave said:


> BTW, John Doe was Dominic Purcell.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Again, I'm not asking you to EXPLAIN anything, just put in the show he's from. How is that EXPLAINING anything?


What about all the references that aren't from tv shows?

I remember a Frasier episode where he tells his brother that "the best revenge is living well" and his brother, bitter at the trite saying being thrown in his face, rattles off a list of a dozen opera characters who felt there was a better revenge to be had than "living well". Niles does not cite which operas they were and there are so many and they fly by so fast, you'd have to be very well-versed in opera to catch the names well enough to go back to the source for each.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Church AV Guy said:


> Star Trek: *The Original Series*, otherwise simply known as Star Trek. "The Way to Eden," episode #76 / season 3 episode 20. Original air date, 21 February, 1969.


On NBC 10PM E/P ( Channel # varied with your area )
It was a Friday.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Idearat said:


> On NBC 10PM E/P ( Channel # varied with your area )
> It was a Friday.


What channel was it on in Minneapolis?


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What channel was it on in Minneapolis?


Just a WAG, but maybe channel 5, KSTP. Not sure if being in the Central time zone put it on at 9PM though.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I repeat:



murgatroyd said:


> Isn't it kind of arrogant to assume that other people don't know something, and you have to explain it to them, otherwise they won't get it?


Especially since you're also assuming that they are too incompetent to look it up as well!



David Platt said:


> Y'all are acting like a bunch of Sheldons.


No, but if we did as the OP has requested, we _would_ be.

I'm not going to give the source of this quote (because I don't have the book at hand, and the quote won't be exact, it is only a paraphrase), but this whole discussion reminds me of a character who once said:

"If they are going to fly with me, they must stretch their wings a little."


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I couldn't resist.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473555


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> I couldn't resist.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473555


Yeah, but you don't count. You're a lawyer. You're _used _to having to cite your sources.


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