# Pip?



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't suppose the Roamios with their faster chips and greater processing power and gazillions of tuners have added a picture-in-picture features, have they? I suspect I would have seen the whooping with joy threads if they had, but I just thought I'd ask .


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## HenryFarpolo (Dec 1, 2008)

My receiver has a limited PIP function. I use the TIVO video out jack to get PIP. No PIP from the Roamio itself.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

Would be a great feature to show video from all 4/6 tuners at the same time on-screen.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

SugarBowl said:


> Would be a great feature to show video from all 4/6 tuners at the same time on-screen.


That's actually a pretty neat idea. Have a button that brings up all six tuners on one screen, and then allows you to quickly pick one to flip to.

Additionally, allow you to put any combination of them on the screen at once, so you could watch 2,3,4 up to 6 screens at once. Think how powerful a sell that would be to sports viewers.

Whether it actually would work well may be up for debate, it would be a hell of a SALES feature.

I'm a one at a time tuner watcher, so no bonus points from me, but if I was a marketing guy, I would think this has potential.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

It would have tremendous marketing value for sports fans. 4/6 tuners all displayed simultaneously, so you can watch numerous games in real-time. Only one tuner would be playing audio, but you could quickly glance around at scores. Switch between screens by number or arrow keys. The tuner with audio would react to trick play functions. Perfect for College/NFL football, March Madness, etc.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't think it has enough decoders to display a live feed of all 6 tuners at once. Although taking a quick snap shot of each tuner and putting it on screen should be possible. Not sure how useful that would be though.


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

Marty McFly Jr. action:


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I like how the TV is 16:9 but all the channels are still 4:3. They had enough foresight to know we'd be using widescreen TVs but not enough to know the channels would also be adapted to fit those TVs?


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## Surrealone (Dec 8, 2006)

SugarBowl said:


> Would be a great feature to show video from all 4/6 tuners at the same time on-screen.


Sounds like a great Tivo S6 idea lets hope it happens


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think it has enough decoders to display a live feed of all 6 tuners at once. Although taking a quick snap shot of each tuner and putting it on screen should be possible. Not sure how useful that would be though.


What decoders are you referring to you? Let's say someone has a Roamio and someone in the house is watching live TV on tuner 1. And 3 kids are each concurrently streaming live TV to their own iPad via tuners 2-4. Wouldn't that be similar to the Roamio just showing a matrix of several tuners at once?

Or do iPads and iPhones actually decode the incoming stream instead of just feeding it to the iOS AV player?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Tuners are different then decoders. These are digital channels which means to display them you need a special decoder which can convert the digital information into an uncompressed picture. When you stream to a Mini it has it's own internal decoder that does this. And in the case of watching on an iPad the Stream hardware actually has a transcoder which does decode but then immediately reencodes to H.264 before sending it over to the iPad which then decodes the H.264 stream internally.

I believe the Broadcom chip they use in the TiVo can decode 2 channels at once, so they could do PIP. However it would need 6 decoders to do a live display of all 6 tuners simultaneously. Now they could use a single decoder to take a snapshot of each tuner and put that in a grid. They could even cycle through the tuners and update them like a slide show. But they could not do a live grid of all 6 tuners.


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

SugarBowl said:


> Would be a great feature to show video from all 4/6 tuners at the same time on-screen.


This would be their single greatest innovation ever, hands down.

Can you please post this up in the TiVo Suggestions thread so we may plug away at it!?

Can TiVo make us Marty McFly?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

As I said the current hardware does not make that possible. Maybe in the Series6?


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## HenryFarpolo (Dec 1, 2008)

Great idea TIVO...Make it happen!!


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## pdxrunr (Dec 17, 2004)

Or...how about a 65" in the middle with a Roamio surrounded by five 27" screens each with a Tivo Mini? All controlled with a tablet. Hmmmm, might have to set this up!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

pdxrunr said:


> Or...how about a 65" in the middle with a Roamio surrounded by five 27" screens each with a Tivo Mini? All controlled with a tablet. Hmmmm, might have to set this up!


Don't think that would work either. Not 100% sure about the Roamio, but on the Premiere there was a limit of 3 outgoing streams at a time. So the most you could ever do is the video from the main TiVo and 3 Minis concurrently. (although they may have increased that limit with the Roamio, not sure)


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## pdxrunr (Dec 17, 2004)

Up to eight TiVo Minis can be supported by one TiVo network containing either TiVo Roamio or Premiere DVRs. One tuner is used each time a TiVo Mini is being used on the network. Therefore, depending on the number of DVRs and tuners you have available, you may not be able to have all eight operating simultaneously.
TiVo Roamio DVRs allow for dynamic tuner allocation, so the tuner is only used when the Mini needs it and is released back to the DVR for use when the TiVo Mini isnt in use. TiVo Premiere DVRs do NOT support dynamic tuner allocation, so any Mini connected to a Premiere is allocated a constantly dedicated tuner and therefore reduces the tuners available for the Premiere DVR.


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## pdxrunr (Dec 17, 2004)

Sorry, forgot the source.

Faq here:

https://tivo.com/shop/mini


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

pdxrunr said:


> Up to eight TiVo Minis can be supported by one TiVo network containing either TiVo Roamio or Premiere DVRs. One tuner is used each time a TiVo Mini is being used on the network. Therefore, depending on the number of DVRs and tuners you have available, you may not be able to have all eight operating simultaneously.
> TiVo Roamio DVRs allow for dynamic tuner allocation, so the tuner is only used when the Mini needs it and is released back to the DVR for use when the TiVo Mini isnt in use. TiVo Premiere DVRs do NOT support dynamic tuner allocation, so any Mini connected to a Premiere is allocated a constantly dedicated tuner and therefore reduces the tuners available for the Premiere DVR.


This is only for Live TV, right? If you use the Mini for streaming only and never Live TV it doesn't ever need a tuner on a Roamio or Premiere, correct?


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

NotNowChief said:


> Can TiVo make us Marty McFly?


By my account, they have 2 years and a little under 2 months to make this a reality!

Someone needs to get on the hoverboards too.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

pdxrunr said:


> Up to eight TiVo Minis can be supported by one TiVo network containing either TiVo Roamio or Premiere DVRs. One tuner is used each time a TiVo Mini is being used on the network. Therefore, depending on the number of DVRs and tuners you have available, you may not be able to have all eight operating simultaneously.
> TiVo Roamio DVRs allow for dynamic tuner allocation, so the tuner is only used when the Mini needs it and is released back to the DVR for use when the TiVo Mini isn't in use. TiVo Premiere DVRs do NOT support dynamic tuner allocation, so any Mini connected to a Premiere is allocated a constantly dedicated tuner and therefore reduces the tuners available for the Premiere DVR.


Hmm... I wonder why they say 8? I know for a fact that the maximum number of devices allowed on an account is 10, so you should be able to have 9 Minis and 1 TiVo. I wonder if the Stream counts as a seperate device even when it's built into the Plus/Pro? If so then that would explain why they said 8.

But in any case that doesn't apply to what I was saying. A single TiVo can only support 3 outgoing streams at a time. Or at least that's how many the Premieres support. It's possible the Roamio supports more, but given the limits of the hard drive being used I don't think it would be 8. The HDD they use supports 12 streams. There are always 6 recording, plus one playing on the TiVo itself. They also leave room for one incoming and one outgoing transfer. So that leaves 3 available for streaming. Now they may have changed the transfer thing to count as an outgoing stream, so it might do 4, but someone would have to test to verify.

I have two iOS devices, a Mini and another TiVo. So when I get mine I'll try it out and see if I can max it out. If I can't all enlist my wife's two iOS devices and see if we can get 6 going all at once.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Dish (for about 10 years on all 2 tuner boxes in Single Mode, even at 2nd TV) and DircTV offer PIP (For Hopper and Genie PIP only at main unit, not at clients). I don't know why PIP would NOT have made it in this fine, well-received generation of TiVo. Maybe a software update to Romios? Let's hope so. PIP seemed a no-brainer, especially since certain other DVR's offer them. One would have expected TiVo to offer PIP as it really is a PREMIUM product.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I still don't get the appeal of PIP. When you have 6 tuners that can all record why would you ever want to watch two at once? Just record one and watch the other. PIP seems like a useless technology in this day and age.


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## HenryFarpolo (Dec 1, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> I still don't get the appeal of PIP. When you have 6 tuners that can all record why would you ever want to watch two at once? Just record one and watch the other. PIP seems like a useless technology in this day and age.


On Sundays, I watch my local team (Patriots) and watch NFL Red Zone in the PIP. Gives me the opportunity to keep up with both in real time. Did the same with night football with the Red Sox in PIP.

PIP is only useless if you have it and don't use it!!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I still don't get the appeal of PIP. When you have 6 tuners that can all record why would you ever want to watch two at once? Just record one and watch the other. PIP seems like a useless technology in this day and age.


I thought it was also useless over twenty years ago. My 32" tube TV I got in 1991 had PiP. I tried it a handful of times and thought it was worthless for me.

SInce then I can't say I've used it. If I'm going to have something else on I will just play it on one of my tablets now. For me it works out better that way. I do know people that have used PiP in the past and still use it today. So they do get use out of it. But for me, PiP never worked out.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I still don't get the appeal of PIP. When you have 6 tuners that can all record why would you ever want to watch two at once? Just record one and watch the other. PIP seems like a useless technology in this day and age.


I've had TVs with PIP since the 90's and I've never used it for anything.

It's just not useful to have a tiny screen up. If I am watching two things (like sports), I use a combo of pausing, toggling back and forth and fast forwarding.

I mean... i'd need a 100'' TV to watch 4 things at once with any amount of satisfaction. It takes a 60'' TV for me to be happy watching one thing!


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

HenryFarpolo said:


> On Sundays, I watch my local team (Patriots) and watch NFL Red Zone in the PIP. Gives me the opportunity to keep up with both in real time. Did the same with night football with the Red Sox in PIP.
> 
> PIP is only useless if you have it and don't use it!!


You know that tablets and phones and computers exist, right? Aren't they better in basically every way for keeping up with a second sport?


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

I liked PIP for watching two games live. The one I actually wanted to watch, and the one that is better than watching commercials in the first game . I could see when the commercials were over in the small PIP window and switch back to it. Basically I only turned on PIP during commercials.

I could do the same thing with streaming to my tablet, if only TiVo would finally add streaming support for android...


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> I still don't get the appeal of PIP. When you have 6 tuners that can all record why would you ever want to watch two at once? Just record one and watch the other. PIP seems like a useless technology in this day and age.


Besides the other situations mentioned, I sometimes wish I had an easier way to see when a program that's supposed to record actually starts after a game that ran long or a Presidential address or whatever. Unless I fix it, the season pass will record only whatever is on during the originally scheduled time slot. If I buy a 4-tuner Roamio I suppose I could just extend the program by an hour, but right now I'm using a 2-tuner Premiere.


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## HenryFarpolo (Dec 1, 2008)

Grakthis said:


> You know that tablets and phones and computers exist, right? Aren't they better in basically every way for keeping up with a second sport?


Gee, thanks for the information.

I happen to like PIP for the use I described.... To each their own.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

So it seems most people use it for sports. I'm not a sports fan, so that's probably why I don't get the appeal. A few years back I did get into watching football but I had no problem recording the games. It never made any sense to me why people cared if they were watching "live" or not. I actually preferred recording the games because it allowed me to skip the commercials. I've since stopped watching football for the most part. 

Another problem I have with PIP is I'm easily distracted. I'm not a multi-tasker at all. I can only really focus on one thing at a time anyway. My wife can attest to this every time she tries to talk to me while I'm watching TV or surfing on my iPad and I don't hear a word she says.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Dan I have to agree with you...

I do not watch sports at all and have never understood that attraction to PIP. I guess that is the most likely use case...

Since you and I are probably the minority - it may be something TiVo should consider.

I just know, I never used it when I had it and would'nt use it if they gave it to me!


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## mylifeiissports (Mar 9, 2014)

how did you do this?


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## mylifeiissports (Mar 9, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> Tuners are different then decoders. These are digital channels which means to display them you need a special decoder which can convert the digital information into an uncompressed picture. When you stream to a Mini it has it's own internal decoder that does this. And in the case of watching on an iPad the Stream hardware actually has a transcoder which does decode but then immediately reencodes to H.264 before sending it over to the iPad which then decodes the H.264 stream internally.
> 
> I believe the Broadcom chip they use in the TiVo can decode 2 channels at once, so they could do PIP. However it would need 6 decoders to do a live display of all 6 tuners simultaneously. Now they could use a single decoder to take a snapshot of each tuner and put that in a grid. They could even cycle through the tuners and update them like a slide show. But they could not do a live grid of all 6 tuners.


so basically what you are saying is that the new Roamio DVRs do have a picture in picture capability, similar to what Directv's Genie boxes do?


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## lgnad (Feb 14, 2013)

back when PIP and POP were on more sets, and big-screen tvs were still evolving, I remember ones that would show a grid of a lot of channels, with the tuners cycling between the different images, updating each like once per second or two, as a sort of visual channel guide.

Like this, but with even more... (left side o'course)










People pay for things like NHL gamecenter, mlb tv etc with like four simultaneous game feeds, so there is definitely a market for this kind of thing.


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