# New to the Hughes HR10-250 and have a question



## WebStuck (Dec 7, 2006)

We are upgrading for the first time to HDTV and have a few questions. Based on the horrible reviews of the DirecTV made DVR's, we purchased a Hughes HR10-250 off eBay to replace our standard definition DirecTV tivo machine. Once hooked up, we purchased the new access card and a DirecTV tech came out to replace our dish. Since then, we now receive a few channels in HD (namely the channels in the 70's). For some reason, we can not receive any of the channels in HD where the HD and SD channel are the same number (for example, channel 202). Also, some channels just don't work at all (for instance, 604 is just a plain black screen with a blue box that says 'Regular Schedule' - no picture, no error messages, no nothing). After reading bit, it seems that this could possibly be because the Hughes receiver is mpeg-2 rather than mpeg-4. When I called DirecTV back (after scheduling yet another service tech to come out) and asked about the receiver, the customer service rep said that wasn't the problem (though honestly she sounded like she had no idea what I was talking about). So, I wanted to find out from you experienced users, should I be receiving these channels on my HR10-250?

Also, when I go to the guide, should there be an HD logo next to everything that I receive in HD? Right now, in the 70's numbered channels, I see the small HD square next to the programs, but it does not appear anywhere on the other HD channels that DirecTV says I should be receiving.

Thanks so much!


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## say-what (Oct 24, 2006)

You won't get much HD programming with the 10-250. The 10-250 is an mpeg-2 machine and is being phased out. All the new HD is mpeg-4 what remains in mpeg-2 will eventually be transitioned to mpeg-4, leaving the 10-250 as an SD receiver with HD-OTA.

All you can receive in HD via the SATs are those channels in the 70 - 90 range that are included in your package, for how much longer, who knows.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

Most of the HD channels now broadcast by DirecTV are in MPEG 4 format. The channels in the 70s are MPEG 2. The HR10-250 can not receive MPEG 4 signals. I had D* send me two HR21-250s last February so I could receive the new MPEG 4 HD channels. I have had no problems with them although I do still prefer the TiVo interface.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

The HR10-250 is only capable of receiving MPEG2 signals and the few HD channels you receive are legacy MPEG2. The new HD channels are MPEG4 and can only be received by the Hughes HRxx series.

At some point in the future it is expected the legacy MPEG2 HD channels will go away. Your HR10-250 will still record HD over the air but satellite HD will be unavailable to you.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

The HR10-250 was replaced over 2 years ago with the DirecTV DVRs (HR20 or HR21). It can't do MPEG4 which is what 95&#37; of the HD is in now. The 7 or so HD channels left in MPEG2 will be converted to MPEG4 soon which will leave the HR10 as only being able to do HD from OTA antenna or SD from satellite. Hope you didn't pay a whole lot for the HR10 unless that's what you want.

If you want HD from DirecTV you don't have a choice, you need the DirecTV DVR.


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## jDotScott (Mar 19, 2008)

The HR10-250 will get all of your OTA (broadcast) channels in HD (including PBS and sub-channels). Since a lot of what I watch comes from OTA, I use my HR10 more often than my HR20. Also the HR10 has never missed a recording; the HR20 often records unwatchable 'partial' recordings or flat out doesn't record a scheduled show. Any HD recording I schedule for the HR20 (SciFi etc) I also record in SD on my R10 so I don't completely miss the show)


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

jDotScott said:


> The HR10-250 will get all of your OTA (broadcast) channels in HD (including PBS and sub-channels). ...


Slight clarification. Sub-channels on OTA won't be in HD, just the main channel.


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## jDotScott (Mar 19, 2008)

Thanks Jim, what I really should have said is:



> "The HR10-250 will get all of your OTA (broadcast) channels (including PBS); it will also get the sub-channels that DirecTV doesn't carry. NOTE: the subchannels are not broadcast in HD"


Thanks again for clarifying.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

No problem. 

We just need to be careful not to imply functionality that isn't there.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

JimSpence said:


> No problem.
> 
> We just need to be careful not to imply functionality that isn't there.


Like someone saying D* will give you locals in HD from the satellite - without saying just a few? What a clever thought - being accurate


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

jDotScott said:


> The HR10-250 will get all of your OTA (broadcast) channels in HD (including PBS and sub-channels). Since a lot of what I watch comes from OTA, I use my HR10 more often than my HR20. Also the HR10 has never missed a recording; the HR20 often records unwatchable 'partial' recordings or flat out doesn't record a scheduled show. Any HD recording I schedule for the HR20 (SciFi etc) I also record in SD on my R10 so I don't completely miss the show)





JimSpence said:


> Slight clarification. Sub-channels on OTA won't be in HD, just the main channel.





jDotScott said:


> Thanks Jim, what I really should have said is:
> 
> Thanks again for clarifying.


huh? If the local (example only here) PBS station is broadcasting HD on a sub-channel the HR10-250 doesn't receive it in HD? Really?

Is the HR10-250 really that restricted that it absolutely won't receive HD except on the primary channel?

What a p.o.s. if that is really the case....


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

bdowell said:


> huh? If the local (example only here) PBS station is broadcasting HD on a sub-channel the HR10-250 doesn't receive it in HD? Really?
> 
> Is the HR10-250 really that restricted that it absolutely won't receive HD except on the primary channel?
> 
> What a p.o.s. if that is really the case....


PBS in my area is on channel 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3.

7.1 is somtimes broadcast in HD but mostly SD, 7.2 is always HD and 7.3 is always SD. The HR10-250 will record any of those channels. I have even recorded both 7.1 and 7.2 when they were both HD at the same time on a single HR10-250. There is no such restriction on the HR10-250.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

This is not a function of the HR10, it's because only the primary channel is carried by DirecTV.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

JimSpence said:


> This is not a function of the HR10, it's because only the primary channel is carried by DirecTV.


Then you are just making things more confusing than it should be.

By memory, DirecTV does not carry the PBS stations in high def over satellite in any MPEG2 offering which means the HR10 could only receive PBS via over-the-air antenna. If that is the case, then when you receive subchannels you'll get them in whatever format they are broadcast in. What you might not have right is guide data for those channels, but it wouldn't stop those subchannels from being received and/or recorded in HD if it was broadcast that way.

On an HR20 box you can receive the subchannels only if there is guide data (even if wrong) to be used. You don't scan for channels in your area you pick from a list of expected to be received channels and hopefully the subchannels are in that list. Again, guide data for same might be wrong, but you'd still get the channels as broadcast, either in HD or SD, whatever was sent by the broadcaster.

HR21 boxes need the add-on adapter/tuner box to receive over-the-air broadcasts but then would face the same limitation as the HR20 would

Nothing would stop any of these DVRs (provided they were paired with a tuner if necessary) from receiving, recording, and playing back high def programming except for those restrictions, no???


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

DirecTV will be carrying local PBS stations in HD via satellite - an agreement has been reached. Of course, if you have an antenna, the HR10, HR20 or HR21+AM21 can get your local PBS station OTA, if available, including subchannels.


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

bdowell said:


> huh? If the local (example only here) PBS station is broadcasting HD on a sub-channel the HR10-250 doesn't receive it in HD? Really?


 Uh, no. If it's OTA HD it will be received -- I think they may be talking about the fact the D* doesn't carry it -- at all in my area, never mind HD.


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

stevel said:


> DirecTV will be carrying local PBS stations in HD via satellite - an agreement has been reached. Of course, if you have an antenna, the HR10, HR20 or HR21+AM21 can get your local PBS station OTA, if available, including subchannels.


Good deal. Will they carry the sub channels? (I doubt) they don't carry the sub channels that are currently broadcast by my local CBS and NBC affiliates. (I don't particularly blame them.) but they don't currently carry any PBS here. OTA there are 4 SD subchannels and one HD channel. I doubt they will carry them all.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

bdowell said:


> ...when you receive subchannels you'll get them in whatever format they are broadcast in...


True, but "sub channels" typically refers to the x.2, x.3, x.4 (etc.) channels, and those will really never be in anything other than 480i. Occasionally you might get them as 16:9, tho.

There is technically the ability to carry two HD channels if they are both 720p, but no one does that because it is impractical, in that if you divide the 19.38 mb/s stream in half, there would be the potential for unacceptable levels of motion artifacting.

480p is an option, but is rarely if ever used because content is rarely if ever available in 480p for broadcast, and there are compatibility issues with some early legacy HD sets, offsetting any tiny advantage over simpy using 480i.

My recommendation to the OP: If there is content on the MPEG-4 channels that you need, go ahead and get a HR2x as well. The HR10/HR2x combo is a pretty good setup. They complement each other pretty well.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

Sometimes the HD channel is not the x.1 sub channel.

Our PBS station broadcasts 4 sub channels: 
9.1 = SD simulcast of analog PBS ch 9, 
9.2 = SD Spanish language PBS (forgot actual name of channel), 
9.3 is the PBS "Create" channel in SD, and 
9.5 is their 720p HD channel. 

9.4 was dropped some time ago.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

stevel said:


> DirecTV will be carrying local PBS stations in HD via satellite - an agreement has been reached. Of course, if you have an antenna, the HR10, HR20 or HR21+AM21 can get your local PBS station OTA, if available, including subchannels.


But there are still the independents that D* is not carrying. I don't recall reading that D* is carrying all of the HD channels anywhere. In fact I believe they asked the FCC for another 4 years before they'll be carrying all of the HD local channels. So, unlike my cable company which does carry all of the local HD stations, D* customers can be mislead into thinking they will be getting everything, and that won't happen unless they have an HR21 that has all the stations pre-programmed.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Budget_HT said:


> Sometimes the HD channel is not the x.1 sub channel.
> 
> Our PBS station broadcasts 4 sub channels:
> 9.1 = SD simulcast of analog PBS ch 9,
> ...


Which is exactly why I used the term "typically". Of course there is the odd station that arbitrarily assigns a different number, and I think we all probably knew and accepted that there might be exceptions. They still only have one HD channel, which was the point you failed to grasp, and I'm sure that will be considered (if not already) their "main" product. But thanks for splitting hairs and providing us with information that really doesn't do much except validate that every rule has an exception, which is not really much of a revelation.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> But there are still the independents that D* is not carrying. I don't recall reading that D* is carrying all of the HD channels anywhere. In fact I believe they asked the FCC for another 4 years before they'll be carrying all of the HD local channels. So, unlike my cable company which does carry all of the local HD stations, D* customers can be mislead into thinking they will be getting everything, and that won't happen unless they have an HR21 that has all the stations pre-programmed.


Wouldn't that be ironic if you had to actually get one to get the programming you want. Why, then you'd be like almost everybody else. Almost.

DTV started out saying they would start with just the "big 4", but they regularly carry most independents and CW in larger markets, which should trickle down once the new sat goes on line.

Not only that, but what is important is carrying what people want, not everything under the sun. They are positioning themselves to not be forced to carry digital stations in HD that actually have no programming whatsoever in HD, such as religious, ethnic, etc. I find that a reasonable argument that helps keep prices from rising.

In the market I live in, DTV immediately carried the major independent channel from the beginning, even though they had about 2 hours of HD content a week at the time. They quickly added the CW and later the MyTV affiliates. About all they don't carry in HD are channels that have no HD content, and they carry SD versions of those. The local cable company reluctantly added MyTV only after they began carrying NBA games in HD, even though they had a full HD prime-time slate from their first day as a network. The "HD score" here currently is DTV-close to 100 (channels), Cox Cable TV- closer to 20.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Tyrone, it's RS4's latest rant now, that somehow people are being misled that DirecTV doesn't carry all locals. Well DUH. Neither Dish or DirecTV have carried all locals since they started doing so in 1999. Where was RS4 complaining about this 5 years ago? Oh that's right, they had Tivo then so all was ok that they didn't carry all the locals. Now that D* no longer has Tivo it's now a conspiracy against all humanity. 

It's just the way satellite is, always has been, and probably always will be. And both Dish and DirecTV have very easy ways to find out exactly what locals they do carry on their web sites, should you need an exhaustive list.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> Which is exactly why I used the term "typically". Of course there is the odd station that arbitrarily assigns a different number, and I think we all probably knew and accepted that there might be exceptions. They still only have one HD channel, which was the point you failed to grasp, and I'm sure that will be considered (if not already) their "main" product. But thanks for splitting hairs and providing us with information that really doesn't do much except validate that every rule has an exception, which is not really much of a revelation.


You should calm down!

I was not challenging you or anything you said. Typically, there are folks reading here that are far less familiar with things you may consider obvious.

There is nothing wrong with posting items that further clarify.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> True, but "sub channels" typically refers to the x.2, x.3, x.4 (etc.) channels, and those will really never be in anything other than 480i. Occasionally you might get them as 16:9, tho.
> 
> There is technically the ability to carry two HD channels if they are both 720p, but no one does that because it is impractical, in that if you divide the 19.38 mb/s stream in half, there would be the potential for unacceptable levels of motion artifacting.
> 
> ...


I guess there is an exception to every rule. I have an ATSC OTA tuner in my TV that will show how a show is being broadcast and have seen the local OTA PBS station broadcast 1080i on 7.1, 1080i on 7.2 and 480i on 7.3. They seldom broadcast 1080i on 7.1, always broadcast 1080i on 7.2, but occasionally they will broadcast two different 1080i shows and one 480i at the same time.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

The "good news?" You get to pay DirecTV the same ~30 bucks extra a month for those few HD channels as the subs with the new equipment pay to get 100. The last insult was when they added an extra $5 charge for the previously included "basic" HD channels in order to serve you better.

That's why my HR10-250 and DirecTV are history for me.

Oh, you now have a 2 year service commitment for activating your owned equipment. You'll notice they "accidentally" are charging you a $5/month lease fee for the HR10-250 you own. When you call to correct that in a year D* will sign you up for another 2 year commitment.

Did you enjoy having the riot act read to you when you PAID them for the new access card? Are you properly chastened?


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

netringer said:


> The "good news?" You get to pay DirecTV the same ~30 bucks extra a month for those few HD channels as the subs with the new equipment pay to get 100. The last insult was when they added an extra $5 charge for the previously included "basic" HD channels in order to serve you better.
> 
> That's why my HR10-250 and DirecTV are history for me.
> 
> ...


If you "choose" to use older equipment that cannot see the new signals, how in the world is that DirecTv's fault?? This isnt a case where the OP had the stuff and it went away, he chose to go with an HR10. And nowhere did he say that he has a commitment, however he should, you think the dish and install is free? Whether he pays a 4.99/month lease fee or a 4.99/month mirror fee, is irrelevant. He will be paying one or the other. Finally who said he was chastised for ordering a new card. The two times I ordered them, they gladly took my money and mailed them out, no problem at all.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

netringer said:


> The "good news?" You get to pay DirecTV the same ~30 bucks extra a month for those few HD channels as the subs with the new equipment pay to get 100. The last insult was when they added an extra $5 charge for the previously included "basic" HD channels in order to serve you better.


Huh? It's only $10 for HD access which gets you every HD channel that's in whatever package you have. If you refuse to get a receiver that can get all the channels that's your choice. $5 for the HD extra pack, don't get it if you feel it's not worth it.



> Oh, you now have a 2 year service commitment for activating your owned equipment. You'll notice they "accidentally" are charging you a $5/month lease fee for the HR10-250 you own. When you call to correct that in a year D* will sign you up for another 2 year commitment.


Ummmm, first, you pay $5 a month "program mirror" fee no matter if a receiver is owned or leased. Owned = Additional receiver fee. Leased = Lease fee. Same $5 a month no matter what. Been that way for 14 years. Your first receiver is free, no monthly charge, no matter if owned or leased. Again, no difference at all with monthly fees between an owned or leased receiver.

We get it, you hate DirecTV. But at least get some of these facts straight so you don't mislead others.

Good luck!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

jimb726 said:


> If you "choose" to use older equipment that cannot see the new signals, how in the world is that DirecTv's fault?? This isnt a case where the OP had the stuff and it went away, he chose to go with an HR10. And nowhere did he say that he has a commitment, however he should, you think the dish and install is free? Whether he pays a 4.99/month lease fee or a 4.99/month mirror fee, is irrelevant. He will be paying one or the other. Finally who said he was chastised for ordering a new card. The two times I ordered them, they gladly took my money and mailed them out, no problem at all.


The OP *didn't* knwo he wouldn't get more than 7 HD channels from D*. When I signed up I had 12 or so HD channels but they disappeared one by one. Of course HD charge only went up.

YOU HAVE 10 DAYS TO ACTIVATE THE NEW ACCESS CARD. IF YOU DO NOT ACTIVATE THE CARD IT WILL BE CANCELED. THE $20 ACCESS CARD FEE WILL NOT BE REFUNDED. YOU MUST RETURN THE OLD CARD IN THE ENVELOPE PROVIDED. IF THE OLD CARD IS NOT RECEIVED IN nn DAYS YOU GET THE BOX...

Gee, I'm a customer who called to sign up to give you my business and send you money but I guess you think I'm a thief.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

netringer said:


> The OP *didn't* knwo he wouldn't get more than 7 HD channels from D*.


Unfortunate but he didn't do any research and bought something on eBay. Buyer beware. DirecTV will happily activate any receiver you want.



> Of course HD charge only went up.


HD Access fee has always been $10. In fact it was $11 at first and it went down a buck a few years ago. Only addition is the $5 HD extra pack. So if you want those channels you can say it went up from $10 to $15 and they added about 80 channels for that money. Again, your choice if you didn't get a receiver to get those channels. Heck, back 7 or so years ago I had to swap out all my receivers and dish to get my local channels because they were on this new fangled 119 satellite. All my old receivers wouldn't get those local channels.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

shibby191 said:


> Ummmm, first, you pay $5 a month "program mirror" fee no matter if a receiver is owned or leased. Owned = Additional receiver fee. Leased = Lease fee. Same $5 a month no matter what. Been that way for 14 years. Your first receiver is free, no monthly charge, no matter if owned or leased. Again, no difference at all with monthly fees between an owned or leased receiver.
> 
> We get it, you hate DirecTV. But at least get some of these facts straight so you don't mislead others.
> 
> Good luck!


The HD fee is $14.99 for a premium (for a single HD channel) + 10 (HD) + 5.99 (basic HD) + $5 DVR if you don't have Total Choice. That adds to to over $30 where I live. OK, only $15.99 otherwise for HD or $2 per HD channel.

I would have been understanding if somewhere along the line D* had said, "Dear customer we're moving HD channels to MPEG4 so we'll lower your HD fee to $5 a month for those that are left." It's way too easy for D* and others to laugh into their sleeves about the rubes that will pay ever higher bills for ever less and less service. Frog in the boiling water. I jumped out.

In my case when I called immediately to ask why the charge was for a lease I was indeed told by the nice old lady not to worry, you pay $5 for the DVR anyway. it only says lease becauser that's how our billign system works. Then over a year later I called and hapepend to ask about the "Lease fee" again and was told I had a leased receiver. Ohh.....I see it isn't. Wait we have to redo your account. Now it won't say it's leased on your bill (but I snuck in a 2 year commitment to add to my quota without telling you..)


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

netringer said:


> The HD fee is $14.99 for a premium (for a single HD channel) + 10 (HD) + 5.99 (basic HD) + $5 DVR if you don't have Total Choice. That adds to to over $30 where I live. OK, only $15.99 otherwise for HD or $2 per HD channel.


What in the world are you talking about? You pay a $10 HD access fee. Period. If you also subscribe to a premium channel like Showtime then you get those HD channels included. You always pay for premiums, period. So your math is way off. $10. You get HD versions of whatever SD channels you get at whatever package level you are. It's really that simple. And it's $5 for the HD Extra package which are channels that are HD only and don't have SD counterparts.

Again, at most you'll pay $15 for HD from DirecTV and you'll get all the HD only channels plus HD versions of whatever SD packages you have.



> I would have been understanding if somewhere along the line D* had said, "Dear customer we're moving HD channels to MPEG4 so we'll lower your HD fee to $5 a month for those that are left." It's way too easy for D* and others to laugh into their sleeves about the rubes that will pay ever higher bills for ever less and less service. Frog in the boiling water. I jumped out.


This transition has been going on for a couple years now. It's your choice you didn't upgrade to a receiver that can actually get the new HD. And now that we are near the end of the transition anyone with an HR10 can get a free HR21 and no commitment. I guess if you want to blame DirecTV for that by all means, but it's your choice you didn't upgrade.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

netringer said:


> The OP *didn't* knwo he wouldn't get more than 7 HD channels from D*. When I signed up I had 12 or so HD channels but they disappeared one by one. Of course HD charge only went up.
> 
> YOU HAVE 10 DAYS TO ACTIVATE THE NEW ACCESS CARD. IF YOU DO NOT ACTIVATE THE CARD IT WILL BE CANCELED. THE $20 ACCESS CARD FEE WILL NOT BE REFUNDED. YOU MUST RETURN THE OLD CARD IN THE ENVELOPE PROVIDED. IF THE OLD CARD IS NOT RECEIVED IN nn DAYS YOU GET THE BOX...
> 
> Gee, I'm a customer who called to sign up to give you my business and send you money but I guess you think I'm a thief.


How in the world is that DirecTv's fault. The OP admittedly bought used equipment that had not been sold as new in 2 years. I understand the desire to have a TiVo and thats cool, but to slam DirecTv because of that is crazy. Your gripe is completely different as you had channels that have been taken away. Completely different issue than the OP. And as far as the access card is concerned, they are entitled to get that card back, the less of them in field, the less likely they are to be used to steal service. I dont see how that is calling you a thief.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> What in the world are you talking about? You pay a $10 HD access fee. Period. If you also subscribe to a premium channel like Showtime then you get those HD channels included. You always pay for premiums, period. So your math is way off. $10. You get HD versions of whatever SD channels you get at whatever package level you are. It's really that simple. And it's $5 for the HD Extra package which are channels that are HD only and don't have SD counterparts.
> 
> Again, at most you'll pay $15 for HD from DirecTV and you'll get all the HD only channels plus HD versions of whatever SD packages you have.
> 
> This transition has been going on for a couple years now. It's your choice you didn't upgrade to a receiver that can actually get the new HD. And now that we are near the end of the transition anyone with an HR10 can get a free HR21 and no commitment. I guess if you want to blame DirecTV for that by all means, but it's your choice you didn't upgrade.





> Again, at most you'll pay $15 for HD from DirecTV and you'll get all the HD only channels plus HD versions of whatever SD packages you have.


Ahh - the half truths again As I recall D* charges $99 for the NFLST HD pkg. Yes, there are folks that getting it for free if they call D* and give the secret password, but the normal client is billed $99.

My suggestion is that if you refer to accuracy in a previous post, you might want to make sure your own posts are accurate.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> Ahh - the half truths again As I recall D* charges $99 for the NFLST HD pkg. Yes, there are folks that getting it for free if they call D* and give the secret password, but the normal client is billed $99.
> 
> My suggestion is that if you refer to accuracy in a previous post, you might want to make sure your own posts are accurate.


Dude, what has crawled up your ???? What half truths. $10 is the HD Access fee and $5 for the HD extra pack. Sports packages are always extra, duh! Good lord you're getting desperate now....


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

netringer said:


> The OP *didn't* knwo he wouldn't get more than 7 HD channels from D*. When I signed up I had 12 or so HD channels but they disappeared one by one. Of course HD charge only went up.
> 
> YOU HAVE 10 DAYS TO ACTIVATE THE NEW ACCESS CARD. IF YOU DO NOT ACTIVATE THE CARD IT WILL BE CANCELED. THE $20 ACCESS CARD FEE WILL NOT BE REFUNDED. YOU MUST RETURN THE OLD CARD IN THE ENVELOPE PROVIDED. IF THE OLD CARD IS NOT RECEIVED IN nn DAYS YOU GET THE BOX...
> 
> Gee, I'm a customer who called to sign up to give you my business and send you money but I guess you think I'm a thief.


Guess you never saw any checks that have the text "void if not cashed within XX numbers of days"


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Dude, what has crawled up your ???? What half truths. $10 is the HD Access fee and $5 for the HD extra pack. Sports packages are always extra, duh! Good lord you're getting desperate now....





> But at least get some of these facts straight so you don't mislead others.


I think you ought to follow your own advice. You are the one saying that in the post that someone gets the HD video for free when they subscribe to a premium package. That just simply isn't true in all cases, Dude. By not qualifying your statements, you give the impression that this is true in all cases, which is simply wrong.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> I think you ought to follow your own advice. You are the one saying that in the post that someone gets the HD video for free when they subscribe to a premium package. That just simply isn't true in all cases, Dude. By not qualifying your statements, you give the impression that this is true in all cases, which is simply wrong.


hmm, if you subscribe to a premium channel and have the HD pack you automagicly get the HD version of the channel if availabel, always been that way even when the blessed HR10 was a viable option. Again, not a very nuetral comment


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

sjberra said:


> hmm, if you subscribe to a premium channel and have the HD pack you automagicly get the HD version of the channel if availabel, always been that way even when the blessed HR10 was a viable option. Again, not a very nuetral comment


Not sure what the definition for premium channel is, but in my book, it's anything you pay extra for - in this case NFLST + Superfan will be $398 after July 31st according to the D* web site. That's $299 + 99 for the HD, so the statement is incorrect.

It seems the dictionary supports my thoughts


> 'a sum in advance of or in addition to the nominal value of something'


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

sjberra said:


> ...automagicly...


Not sure if this is a typo or not, but "automagicly" has instantly become my favorite new word. All my friends and family will now probably want to smother me in my sleep from using it all the time 

The "G" is kind of close to the "T" on the keyboard, I guess. Still, I predict this word will be adopted into the dictionaries in under 3 years.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> ...It seems the dictionary supports my thoughts


It seems wikipedia doesn't:


> a marketing term for a bundled good or service


Not to mention that there is nothing at all incorrect about the statement you quoted which you pronounced as being incorrect, which actually makes YOUR statement completely incorrect.

Not only that, but the NFL tier is not technically considered a "premium channel" or "premium tier" in the cable and DBS world. "HBO" is a premium tier. NFL is a "niche" package. The difference is in how they apply. Premiums are considered channels that appeal to a broad demographic, while niche channels appeal to a narrow demo. What is in "your book" is also, very predictably, wrong.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> It seems wikipedia doesn't:Not to mention that there is nothing at all incorrect about the statement you quoted which you pronounced as being incorrect, which actually makes YOUR statement completely incorrect.
> 
> Not only that, but the NFL tier is not technically considered a "premium channel" or "premium tier" in the cable and DBS world. "HBO" is a premium tier. NFL is a "niche" package. The difference is in how they apply. Premiums are considered channels that appeal to a broad demographic, while niche channels appeal to a narrow demo. What is in "your book" is also, very predictably, wrong.


Hmm, let's see here - D* is packaging a group of stations together and charging a fee beyond the base price - guess what, that fits both services - or in other terms:



> a marketing term for a bundled good or service


Got any more brilliant conclusions?


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> Hmm, let's see here - D* is packaging a group of stations together and charging a fee beyond the base price - guess what, that fits both services - or in other terms:
> 
> Got any more brilliant conclusions?


Whether that was brilliant or not, two things stick out:

1) My definition fits the definition the industry uses while NFL/Superpack/whatever does not, and instead fits the industry definition of "niche" tier.

2) You are so brilliant that you missed that completely, as expected.

You are not unlike the snake-worshipping bible-thumpers that take any half-passage out of the bible out of context whenever it fits their warped agenda. And you've established almost that much credibility on this forum.

It might be time to refill the prescription.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

TyroneShoes said:


> Not sure if this is a typo or not, but "automagicly" has instantly become my favorite new word. All my friends and family will now probably want to smother me in my sleep from using it all the time
> 
> The "G" is kind of close to the "T" on the keyboard, I guess. Still, I predict this word will be adopted into the dictionaries in under 3 years.


Not a typo - slang back when I worked for Big Blue in the iron mainframe age on the AFIS project, ranks right up there with it being done with "blue smoke and mirrors" and for IBM support you called 1-800-Dial-A-Prayer.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

RS4 said:


> Not sure what the definition for premium channel is, but in my book, it's anything you pay extra for - in this case NFLST + Superfan will be $398 after July 31st according to the D* web site. That's $299 + 99 for the HD, so the statement is incorrect.
> 
> It seems the dictionary supports my thoughts


Difference in opinion - Premiium to me is HBO/Showtime/etc. NFLST ranks as a waste of money. Just a difference in definition


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

sjberra said:


> Difference in opinion - Premiium to me is HBO/Showtime/etc. NFLST ranks as a waste of money. Just a difference in definition


While I don't think Sunday Ticket is a total waste of money (well, overpriced anyway) a "Premium" is the common term for HBO/Showtime/Starz as you say. Sunday Ticket, Extra Innings and so forth are not premium channels. They are sports packages and always have had their own pricing. Besides, the question wasn't about the sports packages anyway. RS4 has to harp on something and this is the new thing. I wonder when he posts about cable if he's gong to qualify that my cable company only gives me the big 4 plus PBS in HD and doesn't carry any subchannels at all. Or that there is a nice big fat HD fee for less then a quarter of the HD channels DirecTV or Dish has. Or that to get a decent price on Tivo service you need a *3* year commitment and to get a good price with cable you need to commit to 12-18 months of triple play. Nah, we wouldn't want to be that "accurate" now would we.

I guess we now have to post with tons of qualifications (like you hear at the end of car ads on the radio) instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't stupid and can actually do a little research themselves like punching in a zip code to get the exact list of locals they get. Anyone that counts on everything being posted on anonymous Internet forums as gospel frankly have more problems in life then TV and RS4 isn't going to save them.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

shibby191 said:


> While I don't think Sunday Ticket is a total waste of money (well, overpriced anyway) a "Premium" is the common term for HBO/Showtime/Starz as you say. Sunday Ticket, Extra Innings and so forth are not premium channels. They are sports packages and always have had their own pricing. Besides, the question wasn't about the sports packages anyway. RS4 has to harp on something and this is the new thing. I wonder when he posts about cable if he's gong to qualify that my cable company only gives me the big 4 plus PBS in HD and doesn't carry any subchannels at all. Or that there is a nice big fat HD fee for less then a quarter of the HD channels DirecTV or Dish has. Or that to get a decent price on Tivo service you need a *3* year commitment and to get a good price with cable you need to commit to 12-18 months of triple play. Nah, we wouldn't want to be that "accurate" now would we.
> 
> I guess we now have to post with tons of qualifications (like you hear at the end of car ads on the radio) instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't stupid and can actually do a little research themselves like punching in a zip code to get the exact list of locals they get. Anyone that counts on everything being posted on anonymous Internet forums as gospel frankly have more problems in life then TV and RS4 isn't going to save them.


We agree on it, other then the fact that I personally designate the offers as a waste of money because I detest all sports outside of rugby, GPZ motorcyce racing, aircraft racing and hydrofoil racing


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> While I don't think Sunday Ticket is a total waste of money (well, overpriced anyway) a "Premium" is the common term for HBO/Showtime/Starz as you say. Sunday Ticket, Extra Innings and so forth are not premium channels. They are sports packages and always have had their own pricing. Besides, the question wasn't about the sports packages anyway. RS4 has to harp on something and this is the new thing. I wonder when he posts about cable if he's gong to qualify that my cable company only gives me the big 4 plus PBS in HD and doesn't carry any subchannels at all. Or that there is a nice big fat HD fee for less then a quarter of the HD channels DirecTV or Dish has. Or that to get a decent price on Tivo service you need a *3* year commitment and to get a good price with cable you need to commit to 12-18 months of triple play. Nah, we wouldn't want to be that "accurate" now would we.
> 
> I guess we now have to post with tons of qualifications (like you hear at the end of car ads on the radio) instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't stupid and can actually do a little research themselves like punching in a zip code to get the exact list of locals they get. Anyone that counts on everything being posted on anonymous Internet forums as gospel frankly have more problems in life then TV and RS4 isn't going to save them.


If you refer to the D* web site, you'll find that premium refers to more than just movie networks.

Yes, I do believe that if you are replying to an item, you ought to be as accurate as possible. There is absolutely nothing wrong with clarifying your statements.

My opinion is that you throw statements around as if they were fact, when much of the time, there are conditions that need to be applied. Your statements can be misleading. Why not read them or have someone else edit them before you send them in? Maybe you'll learn a bit about editing


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

RS4 said:


> If you refer to the D* web site, you'll find that premium refers to more than just movie networks.
> 
> Yes, I do believe that if you are replying to an item, you ought to be as accurate as possible. There is absolutely nothing wrong with clarifying your statements.
> 
> My opinion is that you throw statements around as if they were fact, when much of the time, there are conditions that need to be applied. Your statements can be misleading. Why not read them or have someone else edit them before you send them in? Maybe you'll learn a bit about editing


Says the king of misleading statements... or at least the king of mis-using polls and the like.


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