# SPECIAL THREAD: Discussion of listing/channel problems



## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Please use this thread to discuss any items which you feel should be discussed following a report in one of the 'non-discussion' Special Threads. Errors should be reported in the appropriate errors thread.

Feel free to add a link to here from your error report - but no not enter into discussion in the non-discussion threads.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

ozsat, I'm probably missing the point, but in your  SPECIAL THREAD: Programme description errors you ask us to 
"Please use this thread to report problems with a specific programme (right title but wrong programme, incorrect OADs, wrong genre, etc.)"

It seems to me that an incorrect OAD is less a programme description error, and more a reason why a programme might not be recorded and therefore belongs in your other SPECIAL THREAD: Programme/Listing Errors.

In other words, if I understand correctly, programme description errors are not show-stoppers, whereas programme/listing errors must definitely are.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

There are dealt with differently - so OADs are treated the same as cast changes etc.

If wrong programmes are listed that it is more likely an automation/editing issue.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Oh. So my two posts in the SPECIAL THREAD: Programme/Listing Errors were actually in the wrong thread, as were every other post in that thread apart from yours! 

To clarify for myself, if a programme is in the correct timeslot, but is not being picked up by a Season Pass/Wishlist, that error should be posted in the SPECIAL THREAD: Programme description errors.

If a programme is missing from a timeslot, that error should be posted in the SPECIAL THREAD: Programme/Listing Errors.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Yes - if the programme is right but details are incorrect then its a description error.

missing listings or wrong listings are listings errors.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

In reponse to this post:



Smid said:


> I don't visit here regularly to know what FROSP and OADs stand for... So who won't fix what?


*OAD = Original Air Date*
This is the date used by Tivo to decide whether or not to record a given airing of a given show.

*FROSP = First-Run Only Season Pass*
As opposed to a SP that is set to "First Run & Repeats". If the OAD is correct, then a FROSP will only record _new_ episodes of a given show where a channel might be showing and re-run of an older season as well as the latest one.

Examples in the current schedule are both CSIs and ER as reported.

TMS (the people who do the data for our Tivos) won't change the OAD from it's current date to the UK air-date in order for our FROSPs to work correctly by ignoring any eps that are not from the current season.

Hope that clears things up for you


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

... for those who don't yet know, although there surely can't be many 

"Neighbours" moves from BBC1 to five on February 11th so you'll need a new SP. There will be narrative repeats on both five and five life while there will also be an omnibus edition on the latter.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/a86627/neighbours-takes-five-news-slot.html

(I know it's not a "problem" per se, but I didn't think it was worth it's own thread )


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## digital_S (May 15, 2002)

Cheers Carl... For some reason, I've been TiVoing each episode during the week, then watching either at weekends or after work the following week.
Even though there's now going to be an omnibus edition, might just keep recording as I have been (during the week).


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## Smid (Jan 5, 2004)

cwaring said:


> In reponse to this post:
> 
> *OAD = Original Air Date*
> This is the date used by Tivo to decide whether or not to record a given airing of a given show.
> ...


Hmmmn, its always been a concern of mines that the "lifetime subscription" would be very prone to being very finite once the flow of cash stops with tivo... Which was a while ago I'm guessing.

It strikes me as if this is the type of consequence... Of course the price is that we can always just put repeats back on and delete them, but I'd like to know the justification they have for providing a mish mash of Uk and US data. Seems weird.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

cwaring said:


> ... for those who don't yet know, although there surely can't be many
> 
> "Neighbours" moves from BBC1 to five on February 11th so you'll need a new SP. There will be narrative repeats on both five and five life while there will also be an omnibus edition on the latter.
> 
> ...


*Addendum:*
Full details here: http://www.perfectblend.net/news/
Apparently, the early-morning 5:10am showing won't have any ads. Manual repeat recording it is, then 

Although, of course, we Tivo owners don't really need to worry about ads, do we


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Originally posted in the Errors Thread but copied here for discussion.



Andy Leitch said:


> Yet again, more evidence of the rubbish quality of guide data supplied by Tribune.


Whilst not diminishing the problem - any error is annoying, not matter how small it may be - I do have to say that if the data was _so_ bad, wouldn't there be more posts in the Errors Thread? Or perhaps you're of the opinion that there are simply too many to bother posting (or officially reporting, for that matter) at all?

I think I can safely say that all of my SPs work perfectly _most_ of the time; and they're mostly the 'big' shows.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

As members of this forum often seem to have cause to complain about the quality of Tribune's listings on Tivo UK I feel that I should redress the balance a little here when they seem to have gone above and beyond the call of duty to produce some truly outstanding listings against all likely expectations.

Specifically the Travel Channel (261) and Travel Channel+1 (262) (on the Sky Digital platform/EPG) are currently showing the "Peking to Paris" rally series daily and despite this program's many different episodes over many days Tribune have provide full episode based listings with program descriptions and titles meaning that I can set a Season Pass for the program without also catching the repeat showing of each daily episode in the evening.

This is in total contrast to the quite disgraceful situation over the only 9 episode long "In Search of Timbuktu and the Dakar" series on Men & Motors (Sky Ch 184) where only generic data is being provided despite this being an ITV owned channel!

So in conclusion hats off to Tribune over the wonderful episode based data for the long Peking to Paris series on a relatively minor FTA satellite channel but can Tribune please get their finger out and provide episode specific data for "In Search of Timbuktu and the Dakar" which MM keeps on showing every 2 or 3 months.

Is there any chance ozsat can explain why The Travel Channel has proper episode related data while ITV owned MM on the whole does not?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> As members of this forum often seem to have cause to complain about the quality of Tribune's listings on Tivo UK I feel that I should redress the balance a little here when they seem to have gone above and beyond the call of duty to produce some truly outstanding listings against all likely expectations.
> 
> Specifically the Travel Channel (261) and Travel Channel+1 (262) (on the Sky Digital platform/EPG) are currently showing the "Peking to Paris" rally series daily and despite this program's many different episodes over many days Tribune have provide full episode based listings with program descriptions and titles meaning that I can set a Season Pass for the program without also catching the repeat showing of each daily episode in the evening.
> 
> ...


I get listing from ITV for Men & Motors and most series have repeating data and no episode details.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> I get listing from ITV for Men & Motors and most series have repeating data and no episode details.


OK thanks for the response. So the only solution is a complaint to the Controller/Station Manager of Men & Motors at ITV then if I can track one down? Its my Wishlist for "Dakar" that keeps on picking up the program. Time to deploy the Global Blocklist module I suppose.........


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

M&M listings have never been very good since Granada stopped providing them - got full episode details then.

My personal thought is that the channel is holding valuable space which ITV may need later for a new service - and they could loose if they closed the channel down.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Question. Should we not have programme-specific data for _next_ week by now? (ie w/c 16th June)

I ask only because, as of today, my Tivo is set to record just about every showing of both "Neighbours" and "Home & Away" on five next week because there is only a generic programme synopsis available on all showings.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

From the ERRORS thread:


daveh said:


> Channel: MILHI
> Channel number: 531
> Provider: Sky
> 
> This channel went live on 28th July but still no programme information. Just 4 hour slots labelled Miltary History.


So? Tivo do not automatically provide data for every channel that starts up! For a start, do they provide TMS with programme data?


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## daveh (Sep 3, 2001)

cwaring said:


> From the ERRORS thread:
> 
> So? Tivo do not automatically provide data for every channel that starts up! For a start, do they provide TMS with programme data?


How would I know that? As it is from the History Channel I don't see why not. Besides, the fact that it is not being provided is why I am raising it as a problem, if that's OK with you.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Tivo do not automatically provide data for every channel that starts up! For a start, do they provide TMS with programme data?


They tend to have data for nearly all the channels for which Sky charges a sub. I believe this may be because Sky provides the EPG data for all of these channels to Tribune.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

daveh said:


> How would I know that?


Well you seemed to from the tone of your post. ie You didn't _question_ why there was not listings; rather you just stated that there wasn't like there should have been.



daveh said:


> As it is from the History Channel I don't see why not.


Not saying you're wrong.



daveh said:


> Besides, the fact that it is not being provided is why I am raising it as a problem....


Again, that's fair enough, but there was still an implied assumtion that Tivo should automatically provide listings for every channel that launches on Satellite.

Apologies if I read too much into your post though


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## daveh (Sep 3, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Well you seemed to from the tone of your post. ie You didn't _question_ why there was not listings; rather you just stated that there wasn't like there should have been.
> 
> Not saying you're wrong.
> 
> ...


Well shouldn't they provide listings for new channels that launch on satellite? I thought that was the whole point of Tivo so was hopefully bringing it to their attention.

Or was your rather aggressive response just sour grapes because it is only another new 'satellite' channel?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

daveh said:


> Well shouldn't they provide listings for new channels that launch on satellite? I thought that was the whole point of Tivo so was hopefully bringing it to their attention.


It is not up to Tivo to go and search out listings for every new channel that launches. This would be illegal anyway as listings are usually (c) of the channel they are for. It is up to the channel or it's owners to provide listings to Tivo if they want them included.


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## daveh (Sep 3, 2001)

cwaring said:


> It is not up to Tivo to go and search out listings for every new channel that launches. This would be illegal anyway as listings are usually (c) of the channel they are for. It is up to the channel or it's owners to provide listings to Tivo if they want them included.


So you are assuming they haven't while I am assuming they have and Tivo just hasn't got around to implementing them yet. 
So if you have nothing further useful to add to this topic.....


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

So what did you post achieve, exactly, other than pointing out the obvious? 

Have you contacted Tivo directly about this? That is the only _official_ way to get such problems sorted out.

(See. Useful advice )


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## daveh (Sep 3, 2001)

cwaring said:


> So what did you post achieve, exactly, other than pointing out the obvious?
> 
> Have you contacted Tivo directly about this? That is the only _official_ way to get such problems sorted out.
> 
> (See. Useful advice )


So what did your post achieve apart from confirming that you are a rather irritating anorak who's copious advice is frequently wrong and who always likes to get the last word? Perhaps you could do us both a favour and not bother responding to my obviously pointless posts in future.

Bearing in mind that this channel's programme data appears in Digiguide and even my local paper, in my naivity I assumed that Tivo would also have been informed. Clearly you know better.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well, I would hope that my daily attendance on these forums for the last six years, and the accumulated knowledge gained that time has indeed given me quite a reasonably grounding in how the system work, etc.

Obviously I don't know as much as certain forum members who repair and upgrade Tivos or have regular contact with the company themselves, but I like to think I know more than the average person.

So yes, one could actually say that I am quite well-informed and would indeed know better than someone who has made very fleeting appearances on the forums and therefore may not know quite as much as I do.

This is going nowhere, so feel free to have the last word if you _really_ feel like you should


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## daveh (Sep 3, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Well, I would hope that my daily attendance on these forums for the last six years, and the accumulated knowledge gained that time has indeed given me quite a reasonably grounding in how the system work, etc.
> 
> Obviously I don't know as much as certain forum members who repair and upgrade Tivos or have regular contact with the company themselves, but I like to think I know more than the average person.
> 
> ...


In my experience a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. As you can see from my joining date I have been browsing this forum for longer than you have been a member so I have also probably picked up a little knowledge along the way although, unlike yourself, I don't think I know it all. Also unlike yourself, I don't take it upon myself to make pronouncements on almost every post, whether I know the answer or not. But hey, everyone to their own.
And that, you will no doubt be pleased to hear, is my absolute last word on this topic. Feel free to claim your prize.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I apologise. This was a completely stupid and irrelevant argument. Not sure why I even started it  Must have been a 'senior moment'


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> Not sure why I even started it


Carl have a look at my post #6 on this thread
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=401210 
That may be the reason


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yeah, that was more rhetorical than serious. Anyway, like I said before top insult  (and I'm nothing like him. Which you'd know if you frequented this forum more )


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> and I'm nothing like him


That I agree with and I was only jesting.



> if you frequented this forum more


That I do daily but not as frequent a poster, in actual fact this forum opens as one of my home page tabs.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

cwaring said:


> and I'm nothing like him


Well, you never used to be


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

RichardJH said:


> That I agree with and I was only jesting.


Okay. Hard to tell without judicious use of smileys 



Raisltin Majere said:


> Well, you never used to be


Oy! That's enough out of you


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

A rather interesting new FTA movie channel called World Movies has been launched and is now on Sky EPG channel number 331. Apparently it was originally in the 800s part of the Sky EPG (for foreign language channels) but was moved to the 300s movies section in a recent Sky EPG channel realignment. See the thread discussing this at www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=811934

This channel is only on air between 7pm and 3am each day, but broadcasts a very interesting selection of high class offbeat "world" movies. Quite a number of these are French or other foreign language movies subtitled in to English but there are also quite a few English speaking movies appealing to what I would call those with rather more sophisticated viewing tastes. The only snag seems to be that they have a relatively limited number of films that they have bought rights to and show them rather a lot of times (may be 10 or more) in a short period before then moving on to showing new movies.

I have already found myself watching a large number of movies on this channel live (shock/horror) in the last week or so having spotted it in the Sky EPG but of course this leads to me noticing that the channel is not supported by Tribune in Tivo's EPG for listings, even though Sky has full listings for the next 7 days.

I am well aware of the longstanding difficulties in persuading Sky/Tribune/Tivo that they are actually under any obligation to list any new FTA channels in the SKY EPG not from established major broadcasters. However the channel does seem to carry a very interesting film line up and Mike Chopra, marketing manager of the channel is also posting regularly in the DigitalSpy thread.

In the circumstances I will therefore be posting on DigitalSpy to ask Mike if he can attempt to liaise with Tribune to provide the data for this new channel as I note that the same request was already previously made and has apparently now been fulfilled for Digiguide.

I don't know how many of the rest of you are aware of this new channel but if you are any kind of film lover at all and your tastes run to foreign or french language moves then I suggest this channel is more than worth a look.


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## collywobbles (Aug 19, 2002)

Hi - what's the process for getting new channels listed on Tivo? My wife and daughter are horse fans and Sky now have Horse and Country channel on Sky 280. I am happy to contact the channel but I'm not sure what to ask them to do to get their listings to Tivo.

Thanks
Russell


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well that's basically it. You need to contact the channel and suggest to them that their Tivo-owning viewers (like yourself ) might appreciate having their listings available on their favourite DVR. TMS provide the listings and back-end meta-data for the Tivo service.

You might also suggest that they do the same with DigiGuide


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Well that's basically it. You need to contact the channel and suggest to them that their Tivo-owning viewers (like yourself ) might appreciate having their listings available on their favourite DVR. TMS provide the listings and back-end meta-data for the Tivo service.
> 
> You might also suggest that they do the same with DigiGuide


You also have to suggest to the channel that if they are in favour of being listed on Tivo they need to lean rather hard on Tribune Media Services to persuade them that their channel should be included in their listings service because TMS Europe have an established covert policy of trying to avoid adding listings for FTA channels from non mainstream broadcasters with low viewer numbers (because it means more work for them for no more pay from Tivo).

As Tivo UK doesn't have that many customers its worth mentioning to the channel you want to lobby that TMS Europe also supply Microsoft with the EPG for their Windows Media Centre Edition tv recording capable operating system. So being added to the TMS Europe EPG being also being recordable by Windows MCE users.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> ...an established covert policy of ..


Can't be _that_ covert if a member of the public knows about it


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Can't be _that_ covert if a member of the public knows about it


Yes it is covert because the official Sky Tivo customer services position is that none of these channels have data on Tivo because the channel concerned will not provide the required EPG information to Tribune. Yet when investigated it turns out that at least 50% of the time the channel has no problem at all provding its EPG data but Tribune does have a problem adding EPG data for another minor FTA channel with only a small number of viewers to its listings service.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

cwaring said:


> Callsign (or full channel name): *BBC1*
> Programme Name (as shown on TiVo): *MEDIUM*
> Date/Time: *WEDNESDAY 24TH SEPTEMBER, 22:45*
> Nature of Problem: *Not being picked up by new SP*
> ...





Pete77 said:


> But your program source is Virgin Media and not Sky Freesat................





ColinYounger said:


> Exactly - (potentially) different data set.


Well, one would assume that the same series has the same SeriesID, etc. regardless of the platform.



AMc said:


> FYI Medium scheduled as normal by a season pass on Freeview...
> Wed	24th Sep	22:45	BBC1EAST	Medium	Do You Hear What I Hear?


You mean DTT? Anyone else on Satellite got this problem?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

cwaring said:


> one would assume that the same series has the same SeriesID, etc.


One would wouldn't one?

What I suspect is that the data comes in different 'packages' of channels downloaded to your TiVo, which could offer scope for error.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Well, one would assume that the same series has the same SeriesID, etc. regardless of the platform.


One might very well have done before the recent massive problems with scrambled Season Passes linking to episodes of other series but these days almost anything seems possible - sadly.

The latest comments by TivoPony only seem to rather go confirm that Tivo and/or Tribune may now have rearranged their databases in a manner that is not really at all friendly to our elderly Tivo S1 units. Of course I don't know what is happening to users of the US Tivo S1 units viz a viz season pass reliability though?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> One might very well have done before the recent massive problems with...


Depends on your defenition of 'massive' I suppose. It only affected one SP that I, potentially, might have set. None of my 50 or so regular SPs were affected.

Yes, I know that small numbers multiplied by large numbers give even larger numbers, but I'm not convinced it was a "massive" problem.



> Of course I don't know what is happening ...


Yet you're quite happy to negatively speculate on here


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

Follow up on: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6800990#post6800990 ...



ozsat said:


> The 'Sarah Jane' problem was an incorrect OAD for part 1 - it will be fixed in tomorrow evening's update.


Only just noticed it also missed the previous part 1 of a 2 parter also. I'm still catching up on these 

No repeats now for that though, and on top of that I had reception problems on part 2 (sky + heavy rain = no picture ).

So, turning to BBC iPlayer now . Sadly it won't let me do a high quality download on previous episodes but they do hold the whole series now to watch live. Tried out the beta "high quality" feed, fed full screen to my 40" LCD, and actually it's not all that bad. Quality is about the same as TiVo in High Quality, pushing best, except for some artefacts (tearing by the look of it, but maybe that's my laptop's video adapter). Broadband streaming coped well.

Makes me think that given 5 years or so, we could indeed be in the position for on-demand broadband TV of decent quality, perhaps even HD.

Now if only we had TiVo with a BBC iPlayer plugin . If ever TiVo thought of launching some kind of UK service again, it may be wise to add some kind of Internet TV functionality to boost the capability (which to be honest is likely going to be limited to Freeview, given the lack of any chance of a deal with Sky or VM).


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## nickf (Oct 12, 2001)

DeadKenny said:


> If ever TiVo thought of launching some kind of UK service again, it may be wise to add some kind of Internet TV functionality to boost the capability (which to be honest is likely going to be limited to Freeview, given the lack of any chance of a deal with Sky or VM).


Or freesat - now an HD Freesat+Freeview TiVo would be an awesome box...


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## AENG (Dec 20, 2000)

nickf said:


> an HD Freesat+Freeview TiVo would be an awesome box...


Suffering as I do from S** phobia, It would certainly be at the top of my wish list!


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

nickf said:


> Or freesat - now an HD Freesat+Freeview TiVo would be an awesome box...


I'd certainly buy it:up:. Although Freesat lacks a number of channels it should have (especially BBC HD!), and lacks stuff that it will never have that Sky carry and I do like. But if there's promise of more channels I could probably sacrifice the channels I get on Sky for Freesat HD with TiVo 

But, I get the impression that Freesat is a branded platform much like Sky and even Freeview, that TiVo wouldn't be able to fit into without it looking nothing like TiVo. I doubt they'd get a licence to sell a TiVo branded Freesat box. Depends how open the Freesat platform is though.


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## AENG (Dec 20, 2000)

DeadKenny said:


> Freesat lacks a number of channels it should have (especially BBC HD.


Freesat does carry BBC HD.


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## nickf (Oct 12, 2001)

DeadKenny said:


> Depends how open the Freesat platform is though.


Actually Freesat is really just an EPG - the programmes are all FTA and so available on any generic receiver - but only with now+next schedule data. Of course a TiVo would have its own EPG data so this wouldn't matter...

(Only exception is ITV-HD which is only available on Freesat hardware due to it being implemented as a data stream, so only available via the red button from ITV1.)


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

nickf said:


> Actually Freesat is really just an EPG - the programmes are all FTA and so available on any generic receiver - but only with now+next schedule data. Of course a TiVo would have its own EPG data so this wouldn't matter...


Well Sky is technically only an EPG too. Yes they have encryption, but as I understand it some of the "free" channels Freesat receives are encrypted (especially given they're the same feed as Sky uses).

The problem will be in licencing. Whilst I'm sure home hackers can get hold of a DVB-S card on their PC and mess about with dubious legalities of certain CAM products, it could be more difficult for the likes of TiVo to launch a commercial product branded as Freesat without being forced to carry the Freesat EPG.

Certainly in the case of Sky it's no-go, even with "Freesat from Sky".

Even in the case of Freeview, whilst you can get a DVB-T card for a PC and roll your own thing, commercial boxes all carry the Freeview EPG.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Okay, I should probably be mad a the BBC 'cause it was them that changed the schedule at the last minute, but I missed the second of the two-parter "Medium" that was on last night  I wouldn't mind so much but it's the one show they _don't_ repeat 

Oh well. Guess I'll have to wait to see it on the SFG channel; DOGged and in a tiny picture surrounded by large areas of black 

*ETA1: *Well that's just GREAT! It recorded it at the - supposedly - correct time of 00:00, which explains why I only the last 15 mins as it was re-scheduled to 23:30.

I just scrolled back in the EPG to last night and, lo and behold, it _now_ says 23:30 in the listings. Huh?  So the schedule change through, just a day late?!!! 

*ETA2:* Luckily, VM carries the other national BBC regions and it's on BBC1NI on Tuesday morning


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## nickf (Oct 12, 2001)

DeadKenny said:


> Well Sky is technically only an EPG too. Yes they have encryption, but as I understand it some of the "free" channels Freesat receives are encrypted (especially given they're the same feed as Sky uses).


Not sure this is right - Freesat boxes don't have card slots, and only receive FTA channels (they can't even decrypt FTV ones).

What I meant was that with a generic box, you can receive all the channels that Freesat offers (plus more in fact than are on the Freesat EPG). To receive eg Sky Sports, you need a Sky box and a subscription.

So you could offer a TiVO with a built-in generic satellite receiver.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> ETA2: Luckily, VM carries the other national BBC regions and it's on BBC1NI on Tuesday morning


Carl

I am on VM and neither my Tivo (using Pace box) or my V+ box got it right so I am interested in what you say about other regions carried.
I can't seem to find them is there something I need to set up to get them.

My normal BBC1 is London region and I am on ex Telewest (old Cable Corporation)


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Hmmm. Interesting. Where did you look? Ch 851-855 are the 'audio described' versions of the standard five channels. Above these, I have...

861 BBC1 England
862 BBC1 Scotland
863 BBC1 NI
864 BBC1 Wales

Maybe it's just in xNTL at the moment, though I know they are working towards unifying the channel line-up. I'll see what I can find out and report back for you


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

RE: Medium. We found that out last night too. Looked like a very eventful episode rather than some of the more 'Scoobydoo' storylines we had last series. I'm obviously even more miffed as I'm on Freeview and it's not on iPlayer. So that's gone for me


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## JudyB (Jan 25, 2006)

AMc said:


> RE: Medium. We found that out last night too. Looked like a very eventful episode rather than some of the more 'Scoobydoo' storylines we had last series. I'm obviously even more miffed as I'm on Freeview and it's not on iPlayer. So that's gone for me


I take it that you don't have a Season Pass for Film 2008? We had at least a partial recording of Medium since we hadn't bothered to cancel the recording of Film 2008 even though we knew it wasn't on (which was the cause of your problem).
What I find odd is that the BBC cancelled Film 2008 a week ago, but they didn't bother to update the listings to remove it. I checked on Wednesday afternoon and the Sky EPG had the change, but clearly they hadn't told Tribune (at least not in time).


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

RichardJH said:


> I am on VM and ... on ex Telewest (old Cable Corporation)





cwaring said:


> Maybe it's just in xNTL at the moment...


Yeah. I was right on the money  Sorry


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Thanks for trying Carl.

BTW I just looked at last Sundays Sharpe's Peril only to find that ITV were running what seems like 15 minutes late so have lost the end.


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## nickf (Oct 12, 2001)

RichardJH said:


> BTW I just looked at last Sundays Sharpe's Peril only to find that ITV were running what seems like 15 minutes late so have lost the end.


That will have been the Grand Prix overrunning.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> That will have been the Grand Prix overrunning


.

Luckily I have found that episode elsewhere


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## sjp (Oct 22, 2001)

got it on my nasty sky+ box if anybody needs it (at least I've got the start of it, didn't want to watch too much of it) - happy to burn a few copies and send them out to anybody willing to send them on to others.

disclaimer... this will be the first time I'll have dumped something off my dodgy Sky+HD box to DVD so who knows what'll happen when I try.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

nickf said:


> Not sure this is right - Freesat boxes don't have card slots, and only receive FTA channels (they can't even decrypt FTV ones).


I think you're right. Hadn't caught up on the latest events, but early on it was uncertain about the encryption issue given that a lot of "free" channels on Astra were at the time encrypted, requiring a card. Seems that's changed.

However there are quite a few "free" channels that Freeview gets but Freesat can't get until they become unencrypted.



> What I meant was that with a generic box, you can receive all the channels that Freesat offers (plus more in fact than are on the Freesat EPG). To receive eg Sky Sports, you need a Sky box and a subscription.
> 
> So you could offer a TiVO with a built-in generic satellite receiver.


This has always been possible with FTA channels on Astra though. TiVo could do a generic box as such but they wouldn't be able to market it as Freesat. That would likely limit their audience as the majority of people will be unaware of what it is and your regular Currys muppet will just look for the Freesat logo as something they understand to flog to the consumer. Without the potential customer base I doubt TiVo will invest.

Still, things have moved on then if a lot of the previously encrypted free channels are now truly FTA, as that provides more choice should TiVo want to do such a thing (but I don't for a minute hold out any hope that they are remotely interested in the UK market at present).

Another issue TiVo will have is access (or lack of) to interactive services that form part of the Freesat platform (or Freeview for that matter).


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Just a heads up for anyone with a Season Pass for Skins on Channel 4 that the latest series (Thursday night on E4 and then numerous repeats during the week) is being shown on E4 and not C4 (where it was previously shown for earlier series) and so your existing C4 Season Pass will not pick up the programs to record. 

This is even though the Season Pass I have for Skins on C4 still shows the E4 programs via View Upcoming Episodes (a longstanding Season Pass anomaly).

Its pretty unusual for a series to change channels for First Run showings but its not without precedent by a long way. I could set a Wishlist instead but don't want to do so as the programs is also being shown on E4+1 and I'm also concerned whether a Wishlist would handle not recording the numerous repeat showings of each episode during the week correctly. The many repeat showings also revealed an apparent logic fault in Tivo's SP conflict handling when setting the new Season Pass as it decided to show me that it would not be able to record all of the repeat showings too due to conflict with a higher priority Season Pass (and asked me if I still wanted to get those episodes of the series) even though it was in fact not going to record those showings due to the 28 day rule.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> Just a heads up for anyone with a Season Pass for Skins on Channel 4 that the latest series (Thursday night on E4 and then numerous repeats during the week) is being shown on E4 and not C4 (where it was previously shown for earlier series) and so your existing C4 Season Pass will not pick up the programs to record.


Sorry Pete, but your memory is very faulty here. Skins has been debuted first on E4 before. Series 1 definitely was E4 first, a good few months before it appeared on C4. It's been used as a draw into E4.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> Sorry Pete, but your memory is very faulty here. Skins has been debuted first on E4 before. Series 1 definitely was E4 first, a good few months before it appeared on C4. It's been used as a draw into E4.


Well I don't know which run of Series 1 I watched but during that run I think it was shown first on E4 a week ahead of its showing on C4 (you could always catch the next episode on E4 just after viewing the previous one one on C4 I think).

Either way at that time E4 was not FTA on Sky, even though it was FTA on Freeview, so hence I had to wait for the C4 showing. That was why my Season Pass was set to pick up the showings on C4.

Fortunately E4 is now FTA on Sky/BBC Freesat. This is just as well as C4 now seems to have no intention of showing the program at all on C4, unless it is not going to be for quite a few more weeks or months?

It still doesn't invalidate my observation about the oddity of the Tivo Season Pass engine complaining that multiple repeat showings of the program on E4 during the week clash with other programs when it is not actually going to record those showings under the 28 day rule in any case.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Thought I'd post this in here first as it might only be a localised problem (ie 'user is an idiot' or something )

As the Monday showing of "24" will clash with new "Heroes" from next week, I thought I'd set up a WL to get the next-available showing instead. (Yeah, I could have used two SPs but that never worked right )

However, I have come across a small problem.

Whilst the Tuesday Sky2 showing for next week _is_ listed in TivoWeb (left), it does not appear on the Tivo itself (right).

 

Last Call: Sunday 7:55am
Indexing/GC: Monday 2:40am


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

TiVo will only show the first occurence of each unique episode - it will not show repeats where the id matches - unless you use "view upcoming episodes".


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

See! Told you, "User is an idiot".  I should have known that! Thanks.


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## daveh (Sep 3, 2001)

Actually, the various repeats of 24 on Sky 2 seem to have the incorrect descriptions of the series and episodes, or rather, no descriptions at all. Perhaps this is why they are not being picked up


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Nah. It was my error. They're all being picked up; including all the generic ones you mention. Hopefully, these will change into _actual_ listings in the next week or so or I will have to manually delete them.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

*Sky Digital - Channel 149 - CBS Drama - No EPG Listings on Tivo*

What possible excuse does anyone think Tribune can muster for supplying full EPG listings for CBS Reality (ch 146), CBS Reality+1 (ch 147) and CBS Action (ch 148) but no listings at all for CBS Drama on Channel 149?

So far as I can see this amounts to pure inertia by Tribune due to the fact that the other three channels are the original Reality Tv channel numbers whilst Ch149 was I think the newer Zone Romantica or possibly Zone Thriller channel before it was rebranded?

There seems to be no predictable pattern at all to which FTA channels in the 100s showing normal tv programs (rather than shopping dating or tv which I don't expect them to bother with) Tribune will and won't find EPG listings for as even Information Tv (channel 166 on Sky) now has EPG listings despite mainly only showing dross (eg The Caravan Channel featuring a real live Anorak Man) but punctuated by the odd gem such as the Scalaria Air Challenge that my Suggestions amazingly picked up (given that I have never previously recorded anything on Information tv but I have massively thumbsed up all aircraft related programs on other channels, especially National Geographic). CBS also still provide EPG listings for Zone Horror (which they now own despite not having changed the channel name to their own brand).

I have sent CBS a message at www.cbsdrama.co.uk/contact.php asking why Tivo does not show EPG listings for CBS Drama on the EPG of UK Tivos via Tribune and perhaps anyone else who wants Tribune to carry these listings and sort out with CBS why only one channel in the CBS range should be missing these listings then I would be very happy for them to do so.

The Contact form for CBS Drama to send a message can be found at www.cbsdrama.co.uk/contact.php


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## mindwhip (May 17, 2002)

Anyone else feel that something must have happened to the staff that used to update UK listings and they replaced them with an infinite amount of trained monkeys?

In addition to the rash of deleted then re-added or randomly moved channels a while back there have been more and more errors slipping in (such as TP's Going Postal first being flagged as a documentary on the sad events that coined the phrase, then being renamed but with a capital S in Terry Pratchett'S and it still doesn't seem to have correct episode data, and the complete lack of detail or accuracy on syfy (and other channels) listings, channels not being added and other stuff that slips my mind for now)

I'm hoping its not something like them outsourcing the data updates to some processing center in a country that doesn't get the programmes or for that matter have English as its first language as that is the road to listings hell...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> What possible excuse does anyone think *Tribune* can muster...


I assume you meant CBS there. Tribune doesn't supply EPG data for _any_ channel on it's own.



> I have sent CBS a message at www.cbsdrama.co.uk/contact.php...


A better bet.

@mindwhip: How did you get that extract of SyFy's data out Tivo? (Probably obvious but I can't think how!)


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## mindwhip (May 17, 2002)

> @mindwhip: How did you get that extract of SyFy's data out Tivo? (Probably obvious but I can't think how!)


It was copy/paste (paste special/unformatted text) from tivoWebPlus 2.0.0 (I really should update...) listings page (starting at channel list select the channel then 'view upcoming listings') into a spreadsheet (Org Calc but excel would work as well) for a quick reformat and selection of data I needed (formula =left(A3;34)&"..." to shorten the episode descriptions since they were all the generic unknown episode ones) then copypase into a code block here.

simplez.

theres probably an easer way using telnet tho...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I only have TW v1.9.4. It has a 'channel grid' but I can't tell if that does the same thing as it's broken and therefore won't work 



mindwhip said:


> simplez.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

The two phrases I hate! That and "Luvely Jubley" or however it's spelt.


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## mindwhip (May 17, 2002)

cwaring said:


> I only have TW v1.9.4. It has a 'channel grid' but I can't tell if that does the same thing as it's broken and therefore won't work


Nope, channel grid is different....

in 1.9.4 you go...

User Interface -> 
Channel Guide -> 
Watch (or all if you want a channel you don't have set up) ->
Select the channel by the callsign (so SYFYUNI in this case) ->
View Upcoming Listings ->
Pick a date ->
<Ctrl>A <ctrl>C (select all/copy all) ->
fire up your favorite spreadsheet ->
paste special / unformatted text

and 1.9.4 copies a lot cleaner than 2.0.0 but I don't think it will show the full episode description, just its name., just not quite sure why we need second accuracy with the start times 

WIN!


```
(from 1.9.4)
135 SYFYUNI - Tue 1st Jun		
Time	Series	Episode
01:00:00	Angel	Dad
02:00:00	Angel	Birthday
03:00:00	Mysterious Ways	A Man of God
04:00:00	Angel	Provider
05:00:00	Angel	Waiting in the Wings
06:00:00	Angel	UNKNOWN
07:00:00	Angel	UNKNOWN
...
```
now I need to go reboot my tivo with 236 days uptime to get back to running TWP 2.0.0


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

mindwhip said:


> now I need to go reboot my tivo with 236 days uptime to get back to running TWP 2.0.0


Can't you just go into TW, choose "restart" then "quit" then just fire-up TWP?


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

mindwhip said:


> Nope, channel grid is different....
> now I need to go reboot my tivo with 236 days uptime to get back to running TWP 2.0.0


Not if you installed the hackman module to both versions of TivoWeb the you can swap between the two without a reboot needed.

http://www.tivohackman.com/


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## mindwhip (May 17, 2002)

Theres something broken in my 1.9.4 that even when you exit it cleanly the Tivo reboots as it does if a vital process hangs.

After several attempts to fix (including deleting TW and all config files then reinstalling) I gave up as I hardly ever need 1.9.4.

PS: SYFY listings are good now. Thanks.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Having got my old Tivo going again (last powered up in 2008), I see this problem still exists and I guess will never get fixed?

Automan.


Pete77 said:


> *Sky Digital - Channel 149 - CBS Drama - No EPG Listings on Tivo*
> 
> What possible excuse does anyone think Tribune can muster for supplying full EPG listings for CBS Reality (ch 146), CBS Reality+1 (ch 147) and CBS Action (ch 148) but no listings at all for CBS Drama on Channel 149?
> 
> ...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> Having got my old Tivo going again (last powered up in 2008), I see this problem still exists and I guess will never get fixed


I think it might well get fixed if either you or I (or preferably both of us given that we both seem to be keen CBS channel viewers) went to the trouble of tracking down the CBS/Cellomedia person/people responsible for the listings and wrote to them also copying in the relevant listings people at Tivo Inc in Aviso and at Tribune. For whatever reason I haven't found the motivation to get round to this even though it did appear to be my email correspondence that ended up restoring listings for TrueMovies and providing them for the first time for various Zone channels a couple of years ago. To be honest I would feel more like making the effort if the listings for CBS Action were missing as I am hoovering up numerous Star Trek The Original series episodes that I have never seen from there as CBS Action does have the requisite listings (including individual episode data rather than generic data).

Also can anyone tell me if either CBS Drama or CBS Action are actually in VirginMedia's channel lineup as if they were then there would surely be more hope that this part of the EPG might also need sorting out for the new Virgin Tivo product launch. Or do we think that Virgin will use a different source from Tribune for their new Tivo's EPG data?


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

I see even the Sky EPG is wrong for CBS Drama!

At 08:00 every weekday is Dynasty, the EPG says Teleshopping.

It is however correct in the Freesat EPG.

Automan.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Automan said:


> I see even the Sky EPG is wrong for CBS Drama!
> 
> At 08:00 every weekday is Dynasty, the EPG says Teleshopping.
> 
> It is however correct in the Freesat EPG.


One would be somewhat tempted to assume that the average number of hours of viewing per box in use for the CBS Drama channel is much higher for a BBC/ITV Freesat box than for the average Sky box and hence that Freesat may also therefore receive far more high profile complaints about listings errors for this channel than Sky does. Or looking at it in reverse those who prepare the Freesat EPG may care about it more than their Sky counterparts do since to a Freesat customer this is quite a worthwhile channel even though to paying Sky customers it is probably of little interest.

However as Freesat has accurate listings for CBS Drama that suggests that their non presence on Tivo/Tribune is probably just due to Tribune being lazy and wanting to do the minimum they can on the old Tivo S1 EPG and not due to a real shortage of data from CBS/Cellomedia. I would therefore strongly suggest that an appropriate email to the various powers that be at CBS/Cellomedia, Tribune and Tivo would  be likely to have the desired results. CBS do after all seem quite committed to their new channels and I am sure their CEO would therefore be most distressed to hear they were not present on a UK Tivo's EPG, especially if that CEO is an American who realises just what an important product a Tivo is.

Automan since you are clearly one of this channel's most devout followers in the UK can I suggest that using the specific contact form for CBS Drama at www.cbsdrama.co.uk/contact.php to raise this issue with them would be a good starting point. If that doesn't work then I'm sure a quick email to Chello Zone's Chief Executive, Dermot Shortt, and to their Chief Programming Officer, Chris Sharp, Chief Operating Officer, Niall Curran and their Chief Business Development & New Media Officer, Tanya Gugenheim might be likely to have the desired outcome.

See www.chellozone.com/corporate.php?section=management and I would tend to hazard a guess that [email protected] will be the email address format for all of them, although failing that my own experiences in this field show that firstnamelastname or firstname_lastname may very well be worth trying instead.


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