# HME Apps For You Today



## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Yes, we're working on some really cool HME apps for you guys. We showed a little bit of what we're doing at the Digital Life show this weekend.

In the meantime you might want to check out some third party applications. You can use those today. Head on over to the apps.tv website. That site is a directory of applications currently being hosted on the web.

All you need to do is add their ip address to your Music, Photos and More screen and you're on your way. You'll see a little submarine (sub-scribe to apps, get it?) appear in Music, Photos and More. The site has all the details. Very easy to do, and doesn't cost a thing.

And if you're a developer, you can let apps.tv know where you're running your code and they'll add it to the directory. 

Note that the apps.tv site is not owned or operated by TiVo...but it's so simple to use that I thought it worth a mention. It's pretty cool - have fun!

Cheers,
Pony


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Sweet, I was wondering what that was all about! and w00t, user #2 on apps.tv forums


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Buck Buck # 3

My kids will like seeing Skull and Bones on the TiVo  

and Pony Poker without having to ask Dad to bring the app up.


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## TBoyd (Apr 9, 2000)

Thanks, Pony.

Signed on and played a couple of Pony Poker hands before work. 

Keep it COMING!!

Tim


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## goman (Dec 16, 2004)

A weather app would be cool... Like the one on Galleon.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Nice to see Pony Poker is available.


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## mfrns0123 (Mar 25, 2005)

Thanks Pony, very easy to setup and use!


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

I like the management style of "subscribing". The apps themselves are kinda first gen though. 

I'm still waiting for someone to package rocketboom for playback on tivo. I've requested them for it.


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## Popasmurf (Jun 10, 2002)

Bah, I'm #12


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## JoeBarbs (Dec 1, 2003)

lucky #13


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

So I guess the fact that this is not officially by Tivo, but by a Tivo employee, does it mean that Tivo has already allowed third party apps to host services that have access to the Tivo?

Seems like a grey area and I can't imagine Pony rockin the boat.

What other cool works are in the works?


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## azitnay (Jan 20, 2003)

I don't believe apps.tv is run by Pony... I think it's run by Carl Haynes, the moderator of the forum.

Regardless, I see no reason why TiVo wouldn't want third parties running HME apps... Since you have to explicitly enter the remote IP address, there's really no inadvertent security risk.

Drew


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

azitnay said:


> I don't believe apps.tv is run by Pony... I think it's run by Carl Haynes, the moderator of the forum.
> 
> Regardless, I see no reason why TiVo wouldn't want third parties running HME apps... Since you have to explicitly enter the remote IP address, there's really no inadvertent security risk.
> 
> Drew


FYI Carl Haynes is also a TiVo employee. 

Honestly, though, who better to pull this service off? By doing it on their own they probably don't have the same mess (approval by legal, approval by marketing, is the site Bobby compliant, etc) yet they are the most skilled/knowledgable to provide the functionality.

I think it's a good thing and will help people use HME and help developers get their apps out to us from a central repository. I also appreciate not having to mess with installing and running things on my PC.


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## azitnay (Jan 20, 2003)

Ahh, I stand corrected.

Drew


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## wgary (Nov 22, 2003)

Any thoughts on apps.tv in comparison to Galleon? The samples on apps.tv are quite limited, but couldn't this replace at least some aspects of Galleon? What are the pro's and con's?


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

wgary said:


> Any thoughts on apps.tv in comparison to Galleon? The samples on apps.tv are quite limited, but couldn't this replace at least some aspects of Galleon? What are the pro's and con's?


A lot of Galleon's apps stream stuff directly from your own computer like pictures and music. Plus, others require a user-specific setting, like your zip code for weather or movies, so I would think there's a lot of Galleon apps that this wouldn't cover. But, I'm just guessing here, guys like azitnay and gonzotec will probably be able to give you the gory technical details! (or tell you I'm totally wrong!)


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## azitnay (Jan 20, 2003)

Yeah, I can't imagine Galleon functionality like ToGo, Music, and Photos will ever be implemented in an apps.tv style (though Music and Photos could come close, if they were all available over the internet). Certainly not ToGo.

I'm sure apps like weather and movies could certainly be configured to store users' ZIP codes in a database on the server side, though, so that functionality could probably be replicated in an apps.tv-style app.

Drew


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## JPA2825 (May 15, 2000)

Now that I've done the very easy www.apps.tv explained by Pony, I'm interested in exploring Galleon. Is there a "Galleon For Dummies" thread out there somewhere? I'm always interested in showing how superior TiVo is.


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

JPA2825 said:


> Now that I've done the very easy www.apps.tv explained by Pony, I'm interested in exploring Galleon. Is there a "Galleon For Dummies" thread out there somewhere? I'm always interested in showing how superior TiVo is.


Lotsa threads on it, but most of them relate to users' specific issues with it. But, Leon has really good animated tutorials for it at:
http://galleon.sourceforge.net/html/tutorials.html

There's also this web page:
http://www.hippie.net/misc/galleon/
Although it relates to 7.1x, not 7.2, but I think most of it would still apply.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> Note that the apps.tv site is not owned or operated by TiVo...


I'm going to embellish on this a bit, as the apps.tv site has been represented by some of the blogs as either an official TiVo site or a site that 'TiVo launched'...

The site apps.tv is not owned or operated by TiVo.

Not much of an embellishment really. 

It's true that Carl works for TiVo. As do I. It would be wrong though to assume that everything that we do in our off hours is part of the TiVo Master Plan (tm). We both like to code, and have been using the HME open source toolkit to create stuff we're interested in (and no cracks about Hot or Not!).

There are guys that like to drag race that work at General Motors. And restaurant chefs who have backyard barbeques. This is like that. While it's true that we work at TiVo, the applications you'll find at apps.tv (and the site itself) are just a bit of fun that Carl, I, and others put together in our spare time (the subscription manager is all Carl...brilliant idea, eh?).

And if you're a developer...get your app up on your server and register it on apps.tv! There are lots of people out there looking for new things to try out. 

Cheers,
Pony


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Sounds good ... I'll have to check this out.

What on earth is Skull & Bones? A first person shooter like Doom, or sumfin?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

ashu said:


> Sounds good ... I'll have to check this out.
> 
> What on earth is Skull & Bones? A first person shooter like Doom, or sumfin?


It's a generic version of Connect Four. I believe the name "Connect Four" is trademarked hence the name "Skull & Bones". Also instead of red and black, one of the tokens has a skull on it and the other a bone.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Ooohh - goody, I haven't played Connect Four since I was a kid. Is it two-player capable? Or do you play against the server? (or the TiVo)?


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## azitnay (Jan 20, 2003)

You may choose 0, 1, or 2 (human) players.

I personally prefer 0 .

Drew


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## jkovach (Feb 17, 2000)

There's a new app available:

Name: !Yahoo Weather RSS feed 
Description: Simple weather screen from !Yahoo Weather RSS feed. 
Author: Alan Nickerson 
Email: [email protected] 
Subscribers: 68 of 1711


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Yahoo weather is Not letting me put in a zip code


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

I had a bit of trouble with it last night... At first it froze up trying to enter the zip, then I was stuck with a three digit zip (wouldn't take the last digits), and finally instead of hitting Select on that bottom bar, I hit left and it went in. Then the weather came up but on my TV with my settings it was pretty hard to read.

Did that multiplayer game ever make it back? Any mention of their forum over there?


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## Weaselboy (May 1, 2005)

peteypete said:


> Yahoo weather is Not letting me put in a zip code


Having the same problem here. I enter the five digit zip them back out from the bottom bar, and apparently it is not saved.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I somehow got it to accept a 6-digit zip (accidentally entered the 5th number twice) and now I can't add another nor edit the 6-digit one and get it to take.

Also frustrating that you can't cursor-left back to the Music. Photos and More screen.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TiVoPony said:


> like to code, and have been using the HME open source toolkit to create stuff we're interested in (and no cracks about Hot or Not!).
> Cheers,
> Pony


Geez Pony, with all your weight loss I was expecting to find your picture on Hot or Not. What gives?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> Also frustrating that you can't cursor-left back to the Music. Photos and More screen.


I'm also frustrated with a few HME apps I've played with (on this site and elsewhere) that there isn't an obvious way to exit other than hitting the TiVo or Live TV buttons. Granted I do most of my TiVo stuff on the Toshiba SD-H400 which has a non-standard remote and my living room remote is a Harmony - maybe I'm missing some sort of exit button?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

davezatz said:


> I'm also frustrated with a few HME apps I've played with (on this site and elsewhere) that there isn't an obvious way to exit other than hitting the TiVo or Live TV buttons. Granted I do most of my TiVo stuff on the Toshiba SD-H400 which has a non-standard remote and my living room remote is a Harmony - maybe I'm missing some sort of exit button?


not missing - their is a clean exit function that does not take you the whole way back - but the programmer has to dedicate a button to it adn then program in to watch for the button push. On PonyPoker it is the windows button - so that is the problem with your remotes. on some other apps (skull and Bones I think) the exit button is the pause button. Others have no exit button programmed at all - poor planning by the developer.

the TiVo button can not be programmed for in an app as that is the fail safe button and will do the same behavior from an HME app as anywhere else on the TiVo menu system.


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## john123 (Nov 18, 2002)

Whatever happened to that other word game that apeared on apps.tv for a day or so?

Was it just too unstable or something (I didn't notice any problems) ?


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## apps-tv (Sep 8, 2005)

Yeah, I had some threading issues with it where after awhile it would deadlock and stop updating, which kind of takes the fun out of the game. I just haven't had a chance to really look at it. 

I'm still hopeful that I can fix it in the near future and get it back up.


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## john123 (Nov 18, 2002)

Thanks for the reply. Are all the apps done by you and Pony, or have people contributed some?

Just wondering if you're hosting apps for other people. I suspect not as it might start getting expensive since you're paying for it out of your own pocket...

I guess you could always add some ads to try to cover costs - maybe even with a little yellow star !


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## apps-tv (Sep 8, 2005)

The idea behind apps.tv is that it is really an open directory of apps which can be running on servers anywhere in the world but to which can be subscribed from a central point. 

When developers host the apps themselves that means they can easily change and update the apps whenver they feel like it rather than relying on me. Plus, as you said, since this is all coming out of my own pocket, I'm trying to keep my expenses as small as possible.

I'm still hopeful that more third party apps will come on board. We're up to over 1700 subscibers all of whom are eagerly awaiting new apps.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Keep up the good work :up: family had a skull and bones tourney last weekend  Though the kids asked where is the cool skull and bones with all the backgrounds and stuff


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

davezatz said:


> I'm also frustrated with a few HME apps I've played with (on this site and elsewhere) that there isn't an obvious way to exit other than hitting the TiVo or Live TV buttons. Granted I do most of my TiVo stuff on the Toshiba SD-H400 which has a non-standard remote and my living room remote is a Harmony - maybe I'm missing some sort of exit button?


Most of the apps I've seen either have an Exit selection on the main menu, or return you to the calling menu when you cursor left from the main screen. The Yahoo weather app is unusual in my experience to require you to jump out of the app like that.


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## saramj (Feb 3, 2005)

Weaselboy said:


> Having the same problem here. I enter the five digit zip them back out from the bottom bar, and apparently it is not saved.


 Have the same problem lets me put in a zip code but never saves it. There are no directions showing exactly how you should configure or run the application. I was going to e-mail the developer with this but...... I have a feeling he already has a slew of e-mails.

LOVE apps.tv! I think this is exactly what TIVO meant when the developed the HME.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> Most of the apps I've seen either have an Exit selection on the main menu, or return you to the calling menu when you cursor left from the main screen. The Yahoo weather app is unusual in my experience to require you to jump out of the app like that.


I can't figure out how to leave the Connect Four game and PonyPoker uses the Window button to exit which isn't on the SD-H400 Toshiba TiVo remote. I played Hot or Not once, but can't remember what I did there.

The Yahoo weather app was totally quirky, but last night ~9PM EST there was an updated app which works better. The Select/Enter button doesn't' work consistantly, but the left/right works better now and you can edit or delete zip codes. The developer also points to a web page: http://iversoft.com/weather/ I wonder how long it can save my zip - does apps.tv somehow give my box a unique identifier so we can keep semi-persistent options?


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

davezatz said:


> I can't figure out how to leave the Connect Four game and PonyPoker uses the Window button to exit which isn't on the SD-H400 Toshiba TiVo remote. I played Hot or Not once, but can't remember what I did there.


Re: connect four (SkullBones) - I'm playing a version from "a different source" that exits the app when you press Pause ( || ). I now see that it doesn't work on the apps.tv version.


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## Weaselboy (May 1, 2005)

How are you guys able to get the weather app to save a zip code from the entry screen? I can't seem to figure it out.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

I never got the weather to work either.

Did have fun playing skullBones with the kids though


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## MasterOfPuppets (Jul 12, 2005)

Pushing Pause will exit you out of the Yahoo Weather App (wish it didn't have that ! in front of it)...
To enter the zip code I think I just hit > on the options bar on the upper right, punched in my zip with the number buttons and either hit Enter or just went back, it was easy and I don't remember it all that well...


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

Weaselboy said:


> How are you guys able to get the weather app to save a zip code from the entry screen? I can't seem to figure it out.


Mine just randomly saved it after trying it a bunch of times. No idea why or how.


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

TiVoPony said:


> stuff we're interested in (and no cracks about Hot or Not!).
> Cheers,
> Pony


Pony, I love your apps, even hot or not!

Keep up the good work. I think I sold about ten TGiVos just by demo of ur apps.

This is addicting, when will we expect more?


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

apps.tv I liked the word game alot. Please look at it and fix!!


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

What is really needed is some set of standards for the apps. Like *STOP* to exit for all apps. Of course to get standards going can open a can of worms, but exiting an app is almost universally needed. Some of old timers remember all PC Programs were command line driven, no menus, then some standards crept in like F1 for HELP, I think F3 to EXIT.

To keep things simple, how about adopting *STOP* for exiting apps?

Please no flames.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Weaselboy said:


> How are you guys able to get the weather app to save a zip code from the entry screen? I can't seem to figure it out.


Not sure - I think sometimes when I go down to the "return" selection at the bottom of the screen and accidentally try to cursor right or down instead of "select" or left it seems to take the number then.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

The.Mayor said:


> To keep things simple, how about adopting *STOP* for exiting apps?
> 
> Please no flames.


im guessing you have a dvd tivo? i have a dvd and a reg s2, my dvd has the stop button, but s2 doesnt...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

The.Mayor said:


> What is really needed is some set of standards for the apps. Like *STOP* to exit for all apps. Of course to get standards going can open a can of worms, but exiting an app is almost universally needed. Some of old timers remember all PC Programs were command line driven, no menus, then some standards crept in like F1 for HELP, I think F3 to EXIT.
> 
> To keep things simple, how about adopting *STOP* for exiting apps?
> 
> Please no flames.


no flame , but not all TiVo remotes are the same. And there is not listener for the STOP button the TiVo pause button seems to be gaining some traction as the unofficial standard for a clean exit. Of course that only works until some apps come around that have need of a pause function.

The problem really boils down to a plain jane SA TiVo enver needed an exit function on the DVR menus and just used left arrow to go back out. That is why some apps like the weather one - make use of the left arrow to go back and finally exit clean, but then something like Skull and Bones makes use of the left arrow for game play and thus can not use it for exiting.

a standard for clean exiting just does not exist on the remote buttons common to all TiVo DVRs


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think any app that can adhere to the normal TiVo convention of exiting left should, and all others should have a clear "Exit" button in the interface that the user can select.

Dan


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

Test said:


> im guessing you have a dvd tivo? i have a dvd and a reg s2, my dvd has the stop button, but s2 doesnt...


Interesting. I know this will be a problem in developing a universal *EXIT* from a program. I thought that on a PC the *ESCAPE* key would be the way to exit an app, but look at what happened. How many programs even use the ESCAPE key to quit?

Is there any key that may be universal way to EXIT an app on TiVo?


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> ...all others should have a clear "Exit" button in the interface that the user can select.
> 
> Dan


Dan,

Being a TiVo newbie and certainly not being a programmer, I wonder how hard it would be to have a EXIT on the interface?

I ask that because so few apps even have an EXIT button.

I sure like that idea.

John


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ... the TiVo pause button seems to be gaining some traction as the unofficial standard for a clean exit. Of course that only works until some apps come around that have need of a pause function.


Of course if the PAUSE button becomes the standard, then the developer would not use PAUSE as an integral part of his/her app?

Thanks so much for your insight as you can see I am a real newbie and certainly not a programmer.

Many thanks

John


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

The.Mayor said:


> Dan,
> 
> Being a TiVo newbie and certainly not being a programmer, I wonder how hard it would be to have a EXIT on the interface?
> 
> ...


as I said above, you need a button on the remote to get a clean exit and no button was needed on a TiVo remote for exit since you always stayed in the TiVo app. Also the interface is not mouse like in that you can click on some part of the screen.

so Dan is suggesting, and I agree with him, that any app that can use the standard of left arrow on the remote to "back out" of the app.
An HME app like Skull and Bones should show on the screen that the pause button on the remote will exit the app and put you back at the HME screen.

still it is a button on the remote that needs to be pushed to make the exit happen


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Its pretty simple I think. If you have to hit a certain button to exit the app, then it should clearly state on the screen somewhere what that button is unless its obvious its the left button. I'm not sure its about standardizing, but more about having clear instructions on the screen.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rainwater said:


> Its pretty simple I think. If you have to hit a certain button to exit the app, then it should clearly state on the screen somewhere what that button is unless its obvious its the left button. I'm not sure its about standardizing, but more about having clear instructions on the screen.


 :up: :up: :up:


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

BTW, last night I discovered on the Yahoo weather app, that pressing pause from the main screen returns you to the Music, Photos and More TiVo screen.

Once developers converge on a standard (like "pause" to exit or go back) it will all be easier. Kind of like <CTRL>-X, <CTRL>-C, <CTRL>-V, and the rest.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

The.Mayor said:


> Interesting. I know this will be a problem in developing a universal *EXIT* from a program. I thought that on a PC the *ESCAPE* key would be the way to exit an app, but look at what happened. How many programs even use the ESCAPE key to quit?
> 
> Is there any key that may be universal way to EXIT an app on TiVo?


TiVo, Live TV, Guide, Exit, List, DVD. 
*Note not all of these keys are available on every remote. 
For a list of all keys available to HME devs, and the ones reserved for TiVo use, and the keys that do not appear on all remotes, see http://tivohme.sourceforge.net/docs/hmesdk/02_KeyConcepts.html#wp1032414

Note also that pressing any of the reserved keys will take you directly to the normal TiVo function of that key (e.g. Live TV will put you into the live buffer). None will drop back to Music, Photos, and More. My personal opinion on clean exiting is that TiVo should modify the behaviour of the "TiVo" button for HME apps to drop to the Music, Photos, and More screen, rather than to TiVo Central. A second press would still take the user to TC, and a third to NP.

About "pause to exit", that would not work for slideshows, music playback, and similar apps that require a natural pause function in their routines.


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## zoma4 (Jul 20, 2004)

pdhenry said:



> Once developers converge on a standard (like "pause" to exit or go back) it will all be easier. Kind of like <CTRL>-X, <CTRL>-C, <CTRL>-V, and the rest.


You use Ctrl-V to paste?? Ridiculous! I prefer Shift-Insert.


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

gonzotek said:


> TiVo, Live TV, Guide, Exit, List, DVD.
> *Note not all of these keys are available on every remote.
> For a list of all keys available to HME devs, and the ones reserved for TiVo use, and the keys that do not appear on all remotes, see http://tivohme.sourceforge.net/docs/hmesdk/02_KeyConcepts.html#wp1032414
> 
> ...


Wow!

I think you posted a very informative msg. 
Especially http://tivohme.sourceforge.net/docs/hmesdk/02_KeyConcepts.html#wp1032414
.
I am going to digest what you have provided. Thank you so much. :up: :up:

I know there has been discussion that each app SHOULD clearly indicate what the EXIT key should be. The only problem is that they don't do that. It is a "shudda, cudda, wudda" situation.

It is a PITA to use the TiVo Button to exit an app. Your point about rethinking the behavior of the TiVo key is well taken.

73

John


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## wgary (Nov 22, 2003)

Weaselboy said:


> How are you guys able to get the weather app to save a zip code from the entry screen? I can't seem to figure it out.


I finally figured this out last night; I had random success in the past. After entering the number, left-arrow out! Don't go down to the bottom to exit. It's pretty cool how you can select which zip you want from within the screen. But the interface overall is a little funky. Agree with the need for some UI guidelines.


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## apps-tv (Sep 8, 2005)

peteypete said:


> apps.tv I liked the word game alot. Please look at it and fix!!


OK, I think I've finally figured out the problems the app was having. It's up again, please give it a shot.

For those who haven't tried it, its a multi-player word game similar to Boggle.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

jubrand said:


> Mine just randomly saved it after trying it a bunch of times. No idea why or how.


I finally figured it out. After you type in your zip code, you have to left arrow from the numbers/alphabet section of the screen, *not* from "Return to Main Menu" bar at the bottom.

Oh, it will store multiple zip codes and you can switch between them at will on the options screen - pretty cool.....


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

apps-tv said:


> OK, I think I've finally figured out the problems the app was having. It's up again, please give it a shot.
> 
> For those who haven't tried it, its a multi-player word game similar to Boggle.


Is there going to be a limit on the amount of active players? If not, maybe you should shorten the time of each round? I just played a couple of times with about 10 players and it seem like the words ran out pretty quick.

Also once you get the high score section up it could be a bit misleading since higher scores comes with fewer player - maybe it should be number of first place finishes, though I guess playing in off hours would skew that as well.

I think is a kickass game on numerous levels, especially the ability to play other networked users live! Interacting with others brings HME to a whole new level.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

I'd really like to see an RSS feed that updates when there are new items to check out on Apps.tv.


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## Weaselboy (May 1, 2005)

DocNo said:


> I finally figured it out. After you type in your zip code, you have to left arrow from the numbers/alphabet section of the screen, *not* from "Return to Main Menu" bar at the bottom.
> 
> Oh, it will store multiple zip codes and you can switch between them at will on the options screen - pretty cool.....


Whew... thanks!! That worked for me also. I musta been in that screen twenty times trying to figure this out.


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## john123 (Nov 18, 2002)

apps-tv said:


> OK, I think I've finally figured out the problems the app was having. It's up again, please give it a shot.
> 
> For those who haven't tried it, its a multi-player word game similar to Boggle.


Looking good - had a few games last night - even managed to get the top score when there were seven people playing (conveniently forgetting the other games...)

As davezatz says, playing against other network users adds a lot to the game - good job!


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## apps-tv (Sep 8, 2005)

davezatz said:


> Is there going to be a limit on the amount of active players? If not, maybe you should shorten the time of each round? I just played a couple of times with about 10 players and it seem like the words ran out pretty quick.
> 
> Also once you get the high score section up it could be a bit misleading since higher scores comes with fewer player - maybe it should be number of first place finishes, though I guess playing in off hours would skew that as well.
> 
> I think is a kickass game on numerous levels, especially the ability to play other networked users live! Interacting with others brings HME to a whole new level.


Yeah, one of the reasons why I haven't implemented the high scores is exactly that reason, I haven't come up with a fair way of ranking. Its possible that I may just remove that screen. another possibility is to remove the "race" aspect to is so that everyone gets three minutes to find as many words as you can so it doesn't matter if there is 1 person or twenty. However I think the racing to find words first is fun so I'm hesitant to remove that aspect of the game.

One other option is to change it to a 5x5 grid so that there are a lot more words to find.

I'll have to think about it a bit more. My main concern at this point is that it is still freezing up occaisionally and I haven't figured out why.

Thanks for the suggestions.


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## apps-tv (Sep 8, 2005)

megazone said:


> I'd really like to see an RSS feed that updates when there are new items to check out on Apps.tv.


I like that idea. Any good suggestions for me to read how to set up an rss feed, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to all the RSS stuff.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Wow I just played the word game and it's excellent! A really well-made HME app. I'm impressed :up: 

One suggestion would be the ability to use channel-up-down for looking at the words between rounds. Again, great work on this


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

apps-tv said:


> I like that idea. Any good suggestions for me to read how to set up an rss feed, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to all the RSS stuff.


All RSS is, is a properly formatted XML document with the data. Since Apps.tv doesn't update constantly, you could even manually update the file whenever you add a new app.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Really_Simple_Syndication
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss


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## peteypete (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks for fixing the wordgame. I like having the wordlist show up at the end of the game. my only request is that the dimmed out board be show a little brighter so that you can see all the tiles so you can figure out the words found. Right now you can't read it behind the "top 5"

P


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## schalliol (Feb 13, 2003)

Just a note of thanks for the TiVo employees to set off and do this on their off-time. Also, a thanks to TiVo for not restricting its employees from doing such things (many companies do).


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

DancnDude said:


> One suggestion would be the ability to use channel-up-down for looking at the words between rounds. Again, great work on this


Carl got it in there, works nice - you can see your words (and count) plus all others and can use the channel up/down for quicker navigation. He dropped the font down to show the top 8 players - my bedroom TV has pretty crappy PQ and the small font isn't great for me, but whatever. 

By the way, it's much easier to play with my SD-H400 remote (bedroom) over the TiVO peanut (living room). My Harmony remote is generallt too slow for the fast pace of the game. I never considered Boggle when choosing remotes. 

By the way, have I mentioned this game kicks ass? As more and more people start using it, I wonder if it's going to be less satisfying. I think we need several "rooms" to spread out into so we'll never competed against more than say 8 or 10 people simultaniously. Or perhaps on the fly the game can resize to 5 blocks when 10 or more players are present.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

davezatz said:


> Carl got it in there, works nice - you can see your words (and count) plus all others and can use the channel up/down for quicker navigation.


Yeah cool! I noticed that last night and it works great  Thanks! This game is one of those can't-put-it-down games. You play a few rounds and keep saying "just one more" until you've spent more time than you planned.


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## jkovach (Feb 17, 2000)

apps-tv said:


> Yeah, one of the reasons why I haven't implemented the high scores is exactly that reason, I haven't come up with a fair way of ranking. Its possible that I may just remove that screen. another possibility is to remove the "race" aspect to is so that everyone gets three minutes to find as many words as you can so it doesn't matter if there is 1 person or twenty. However I think the racing to find words first is fun so I'm hesitant to remove that aspect of the game.
> 
> One other option is to change it to a 5x5 grid so that there are a lot more words to find.
> 
> ...


I really enjoy your game, thanks for providing it!

Regarding the high scores - I don't think the current scores should be directly involved with the overall player ranking. The way I envision it, the current score system would still be needed in order to rank the players in each round, and their position relative to the other players would contribute to their overall score. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to fairly rank everyone, and here's what I've come up with...

Players would accumulate rank points based on the number of players they've beaten (using current scoring system), minus the number of players who've beaten them. For example, if you place 1st (no tie) in an 8 player game, you would get 7 rank points since you beat 7 other players. If you placed 2nd (no tie), you would get 5 rank points (6 rank points for beating 6 others, but -1 for getting beat by 1 player). If you tied for 3rd place (2 people with same score), you would get 2 rank points (4 for the players you beat and -2 for the 2 players who beat you). If more than half the players beat you, you would actually get negative rank points towards your total. If you played alone in the middle of the night, you'd get 0 rank points.

Maybe reset the scores each week, and add a screen to show current and prior week's top 10 or more.

It might be tempting to calculate the average rank points (using above point system) per game played, and rank players that way - but it would cause your better players to not want to play when there are only a few players, as the relatively low score for winning the game could lower their average.

One problem I see happening is dealing with players who exit the game before it is complete. Or players who join late in the game. I propose the following:

A player isn't counted unless he submits at least 1 word, and if a player who submitted at least 1 word exits a game before completion, they will still be included in the point calculations. I guess this would also prevent the potential problem of players who fall asleep while playing, so rounds they don't participate in aren't counted against them...

Another potential problem is handles. Do you have any way to prevent someone from changing their handle to someone else's, thereby messing with someone's score? Can the game support multiple (but not simultaneous) players from the same TiVo by changing handles? Can a player use more than 1 TiVo in the same household (not at the same time) and use the same handle on each one?

I like the idea of a bigger grid, especially if the game is made stable with larger numbers of players. However, another idea might be to allow letters to be reused after they are 3 or 4 letters old. In other words, only grey out the prior 3 or 4 letters selected, after that they can be reused. This would create new words in mind-bending ways.

Finally, how about some kind of sorting on the world list that is displayed at the end of the round, and maybe indicate the player # who got the word in the points column?

Again, thanks for the great game!

Jeff


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## mgrossman (Nov 24, 2005)

I just got into writing HME apps, and my first shows the whole family pop accounts
and lets you read just headers or the complete emails.

I'm writing my second app to show a constantly changing jpg file......
I have a remote web cam that takes a pic and ftps to a computer.
It has the capability of changing the filename or replacing 1 file.

I wrote an HME app that wakes up every 5 seconds to display the current
ftp file BUT even after the file is updated it still show the first one that was
present when the HME app started. It seams like either the java HME app
(or the tivo) is cashing the jpg file. How can I disable the cashing so the
current (most recent) jpg is always seen?

PS I have 2 BViews and alternate (with a fade) between the two.
PPS I even tried doing a Img.flush() call after each call to setresource()


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

> need help writing a HME app


You might want to try asking your question in the HME developers section of the forum. I believe a number of developers frequent that section who do not normally check out the Coffee House. You might have better luck there. 

-Dylan


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## azitnay (Jan 20, 2003)

mgrossman said:


> I wrote an HME app that wakes up every 5 seconds to display the current
> ftp file BUT even after the file is updated it still show the first one that was
> present when the HME app started. It seams like either the java HME app
> (or the tivo) is cashing the jpg file. How can I disable the cashing so the
> current (most recent) jpg is always seen?


If you were using HTTP instead of FTP, as a quick-and-dirty solution I'd recommend simply appending a GET parameter (such as donotcache) with a unique value (such as a timestamp) to the URL. For example, if the URL were:

http://www.zitnay.com/image.jpg

You could request:

http://www.zitnay.com/image.jpg?donotcache=1234567890

where 1234567890 is a timestamp that changes with each request.

Obviously, FTP won't allow this, but perhaps you could run a webserver on the same computer and give it the same document root, so you could access the same file via HTTP.

Drew


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## apps-tv (Sep 8, 2005)

megazone said:


> I'd really like to see an RSS feed that updates when there are new items to check out on Apps.tv.


here you go!

http://www.apps.tv/appstv.rss

This gets generated on demand so it should always be up to date.


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## TiVoCanada (Sep 18, 2005)

how about some apps for gmail,yahoo mail, hotmail etc? TiVo Mail app


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

TiVoCanada said:


> how about some apps for gmail,yahoo mail, hotmail etc? TiVo Mail app


I don't think I would recommend that. You'd have to trust your password with the 3rd party that is hosting the application. And that's NOT something anyone should do.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

apps-tv said:


> here you go!


Cool - I syndicated it at LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/appstv/


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

megazone said:


> Cool - I syndicated it at LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/appstv/


I want to thank you for providing a vast list of Tivo resources on your signature line! I added it to my bookmark list.

John


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## Hew (Apr 18, 2004)

Whats going to happen when TiVo launches its official HME app? Are you going to be able to put your apps on their servers or are you going to keep it seperate. Will TiVo allow anyone to come up with an app and post it on their server or will there be an official server and a server for all the programers out there like apps.tv is.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Hew said:


> Whats going to happen when TiVo launches its official HME app? Are you going to be able to put your apps on their servers or are you going to keep it seperate. Will TiVo allow anyone to come up with an app and post it on their server or will there be an official server and a server for all the programers out there like apps.tv is.


TiVo HME and Apps.TV can coexist happily. No need for an official TiVo approval or hosting of the apps.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Hew said:


> Whats going to happen when TiVo launches its official HME app? Are you going to be able to put your apps on their servers or are you going to keep it seperate. Will TiVo allow anyone to come up with an app and post it on their server or will there be an official server and a server for all the programers out there like apps.tv is.


As I understand it, anyone can put up their own HME server and communicate its name to the public however they want, and then people can just point their TiVo to it. TiVo warns you that they have no control over what happens if you give personal info to HME apps.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

Here's a prolly a dumb question.
How do I remove the apps.tv Subscription manager from my Tivo? I don't see a remove option?
Maybe this is a more general HME question.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Stu_Bee said:


> Here's a prolly a dumb question.
> How do I remove the apps.tv Subscription manager from my Tivo? I don't see a remove option?
> Maybe this is a more general HME question.


Highlight the apps.tv Subscription Manager in Music, Photos, & More and press Clear.


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

Stu_Bee said:


> Here's a prolly a dumb question.
> How do I remove the apps.tv Subscription manager from my Tivo? I don't see a remove option?
> Maybe this is a more general HME question.


Just going from a rather rusty memory, I think you go to Music, photos, more then disable Home Network Applications. Should do it.

John


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

There's a new app up on www.apps.tv for your enjoyment.

It's LateGuide - a guide to all of the guests appearing on each late night talkshow. Written by yours truly.

Some of you have seen this one before, but this is an improved version. It allows you to see two weeks of info now. 

Cheers,
Pony


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Oh, and apps.tv currently has 2,980 subscribers. Who'll be number 3,000? 

Pony


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TiVoPony said:


> Oh, and apps.tv currently has 2,980 subscribers. Who'll be number 3,000?
> 
> Pony


I was number 3, nice to see the exponential growth over top of that 

and I had just subbed the late night app during lunch. thanks for including it.

on a related note
the Skull and Bones from Yahoo does not seem to allow 2 players  
the skull and bones on apps.tv gives you the option screen for 1 or 2 or demo on the way in. Glad that one is there, my fmaily likes to do skull and bones tournies every now and then :up:


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## apps-tv (Sep 8, 2005)

TiVoPony said:


> Oh, and apps.tv currently has 2,980 subscribers. Who'll be number 3,000?
> 
> Pony


We made it to 3000 today despite the server being down for a while this afternoon.

on to 4000!


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

You know how you have to hit 3 thumbs up and ENTER to active subscription manager....
The Sony Tivo Remote calls their Select button Select/Enter. So my Mom was doing the 3 thumbsup Enter, quite a few times, till she gave up and called me. I told her to look for the 'other' enter button.

Just an FYI: in case you decide to make it easier and that hitting select can also mean that the person understand why they just hit 3 thumbs up for 

thanks.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> There's a new app up on www.apps.tv for your enjoyment.
> 
> It's LateGuide - a guide to all of the guests appearing on each late night talkshow. Written by yours truly.
> 
> ...


I've updated it again...now it includes listings for The Colbert Report.

Bears! 

Pony


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

For those of you looking for more online apps to play with on your TiVo DVR's...

There have been some new apps added recently to apps.tv. You'll find:

*A Flickr image browser
*A frontend for the Last.fm internet radio site
*A demo of all of the new features built into Galleon

None of this is official TiVo stuff, but it's cool to see what developers are coming up with on their own. 

Give it a spin!

Cheers,
Pony


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> For those of you looking for more online apps to play with on your TiVo DVR's...
> 
> There have been some new apps added recently to apps.tv. You'll find:
> 
> ...


Highly recommend taking a look at the Galleon screens if you haven't tried it already. It's really a great program in action! :up: :up: :up:


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## saramj (Feb 3, 2005)

TiVoPony said:


> For those of you looking for more online apps to play with on your TiVo DVR's...
> 
> There have been some new apps added recently to apps.tv. You'll find:
> 
> ...


 What do I need to do to get the last.fm app. to work??? Where do I get the user name and password?


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## Madhatter27 (Dec 5, 2005)

saramj said:


> What do I need to do to get the last.fm app. to work??? Where do I get the user name and password?


go here http://www.last.fm/


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## ACraigL (Feb 12, 2003)

'Hot or Not' seems to work, but never displays the photos... something I need to do?


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## apps-tv (Sep 8, 2005)

I just checked my box and the pictures are coming through. 

There shouldn't be anything you need to do. The images get loaded through port 80 so there shouldn't be a firewall issue.

Not sure what could be going on.


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## ACraigL (Feb 12, 2003)

apps-tv,

That's what I figured as well. My wife was so excited to play this, and excitement quickly turned to disappointment 

If there's logs, or anything I can use to troubleshoot, please let me know! Thanks.


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## The.Mayor (Oct 25, 2005)

jubrand said:


> There's also this web page:
> http://www.hippie.net/misc/galleon/
> Although it relates to 7.1x, not 7.2, but I think most of it would still apply.


Checked this url 2day, it appears to be down.

Ohhh well


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Does the last.fm player work?

I signed up and can log in, but once I get to the screen with the "start" button nothing happens. The time always lists 00:00/00:00 and trying to select "start" gives a bong sound.

This occurs for any tag I choose.


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## MerlinMacuser (Jan 4, 2004)

Sorry but I find this to be another underwhealming announcement from Tivo. 

To date I'm not finding this to be any use whatsoever. The Yahoo Weather page doesn't save my zip code and besides it's a lot easier to just look out the window or bring up the weather channel than to callup the apps server which has been offline 50% of the time I've tried to use it. Galleon demos won't load, HON is stupid, and if I want to play games on TV I can buy an Xbox.

I did try the Best Buys new music app and that was interesting except much the "new" music was old. The U2 selections were from 2004! I would love to see this expanded to a library of a few hundred songs with dynamic links to my local Best Buys' inventory database. I'd love to be able to order the cds of the songs I like from my couch or know whether they have it at my local store. I'd even like a streaming feed of the BestBuy "station" of the promotional muzak they play in their stores (except for the PA announcements, of course).

My cable company's music channels have all kinds of great information execpt the songs are loaded by a virtual dj...that could work for Tivo/Best Buy too but they need to make better use of the video screen too. This is probably a bandwidth issue but some of use have broadband but few applications for that huge pipeline.

This HME stuff has great potential but it is yet very far from the coolness standard that will make it a driving force for Tivo.

A better investment, in my opinion would be to work with Apple to solve whatever probems that would allow an iTunes library to play through Tivo instead of just the MP3s (that I'm not supposed to have anyway). I have over 6 days of music that I own on cd and have transfered to my computer. I have about only 15-20 minutes of MP3s that I only hang onto for nostalgia purposes....

Obviously there is a market for devices that allow folks to connect their iPod or iTunes library to their sound systems. If Belkin, Bose and Logitech can do it, why not Tivo? I'm almost certain there are more iPod owners than Tivo owners.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

MerlinMacuser said:


> ... A better investment, in my opinion would be to work with Apple to solve whatever probems that would allow an iTunes library to play through Tivo instead of just the MP3s (that I'm not supposed to have anyway). I have over 6 days of music that I own on cd and have transfered to my computer. I have about only 15-20 minutes of MP3s that I only hang onto for nostalgia purposes....
> 
> Obviously there is a market for devices that allow folks to connect their iPod or iTunes library to their sound systems. If Belkin, Bose and Logitech can do it, why not Tivo? I'm almost certain there are more iPod owners than Tivo owners.


I think that it would be more accurate to make a statement along the lines of - Apple should work with all the other companies that want to license their DRM. The ball is in Apple's court, and they won't throw it back....TiVo's not the only outcast on the block.

As far as i know, all of the companies that you mention make devices for the iPod that play back the audio stream *after* its been decoded in the iPod (or iTunes).


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

DCIFRTHS said:


> As far as i know, all of the companies that you mention make devices for the iPod that play back the audio stream *after* its been decoded in the iPod (or iTunes).


There are devices that play unprotected AAC files such as Sony's Walkman phone and various media extenders. In the past I've used Roku's SoundBridge with good results. (Roku did require iTunes to be running, so perhaps it does stream after decoding... but I see no reason why TiVo couldn't implement something similar.)

EDIT: A year or so ago TiVoBill implied the reason they didn't add support for unprotected AAC music was they felt consumers might be confused when iTunes-purchased songs wouldn't play.


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