# HDMI FAILURE Poll - EVERYONE please respond



## unixadm

Ok...

I know a lot of people have been bitten by the failed or deteriorated picture on the HDMI output.

I just got hit with it this morning (less than 2 weeks after getting it)

I am curious to see how many people had problems.

Since we probably represent a very good majority of the people who have purchased these over the past couple of months, I think the poll will be pretty accurate as far as percentage of failures (assuming that everyone answers)

Please post where yours was made and what date.

Mine:

Mexico 
June 9th 2004

PLEASE DO NOT ANSWER IF YOU HAVE HAD YOUR HD TIVO FOR LESS THAN 2 WEEKS AND DON'T SEE A PROBLEM. WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE HAD IT IN SERVICE FOR MORE THAN 2 WEEKS!


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## sotapoppy

Born 4-24-04 in USA

Bought from CC on 5/7/04.

HDMI port worked flawlessly until it died on 6/17/04.

D* is sending new unit.

FWIW my pic using the component connection is noticeably inferior to the pic using the HDMI to DVI connection on my TV.

BTW I'm the only one that has had an HDMI port failure. D* CSR told me so!


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## bbwebb

> BTW I'm the only one that has had an HDMI port failure. D* CSR told me so!


Funny...DTV CSR told me the exact same thing


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## falstaffpac

I've had mine for 2 weeks, but I'm reserving my vote for now. I've read in another thread that just before someone's HDMI went out, they temporarily saw a picture with "snow" on their television. I've seen this occurence twice now and it makes me shudder. It really makes me uncomfortable to read stories of people having no problems at all, then all of a sudden the HDMI goes out.

Does DirecTV offer any component protection plans with their monthly service? I've looked around their website, but didn't really see anything. I almost never purchase an "extended warrenty" option. But, given the reported failures and the price of this box, I think I would like one.


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## tarmack

I own two HR10-250's.....I have had a total of 4 delivered so far....2 have been returned....one due to a total hard drive failure.

Of the two now in service....1 has had a HDMI failure and is being held for replacement, voluntarily by me, until there is some sort of a physical hardware or software fix applied and known by DirecTV.

The other unit now in service is working like a champ...but that is only 1 out of 4.

All were born and bred in the USA....the only one that is working perfectly is a replacement from DirecTV and has a birth date of April 1. Go figger.

Tarmack


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## Todd

I've had mine for over 2 months now and so far it works flawlessly, aside from a few minor bugs in the software. Knocking on wood right now.....


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## ChrisW6ATV

Hi-

Since you want 'everyone' to respond, can you please add an item for "do not use/have not tested HDMI"? I have no compatible display, nor do I have any plans to buy one soon.


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## jdpack

Mine had a deteriorated picture on the HDMI output right out of the box. I was searching around for some HDMI compatibility setting on my TV. I have a Mitsubishi WS-65313. I was using the DVI input from a Samsung receiver up until I installed the TiVo. On one hand I am glad to hear this is a known problem, on the other hand what is it going to take to get it fixed.


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## jakepratt

This thread jinxed me. I posted that I had no trouble so far and yesterday...my HDMI connection died.


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## Reaver3

My first posting here, hope it works ok:

Had mine for 2 weeks tomorrow, works flawlessly, no problems at all. Seems very fast compared to my other SD directv/tivo units.

Doug


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## NJChris

I'd also like to know how many people that had failures were the DVI-->HDMI cable or the HDMI-->HDMI cable. I use the HDMI to HDMI cable and it's still working great.


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## brahamt

I'll try to connect it tonight and try.


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## CHAS ZOSS

Mine came yesterday, no problems with HDMI to Panny dlp.


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## nuke

Over 2 months. Works perfectly with my panasonic plasma.


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## RMSko

I got my unit about 8 days ago and it worked fine until yesterday, when all of a sudden the picture went pink. I was running HDMI to DVI and I switched to HDMI to HDMI and, although not pink, the picture was still all messed up. I then went to component, which is fine, although obviously not as good a picture as DVI. 

For those of you swapping out units, are you getting new units with cables, etc., or are they sending refurbished units?


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## Bill Broderick

My first unit was made in the USA, I don't remember the date. I returned it due to a tuner problem, not HDMI. I had it for about a 1.5 months, and used the HDMI port for 2-3 weeks after getting a new TV. I had no HDMI problems.

I just received the replacement receiver, made in Mexico on May 27. So far there is not HDMI problem, but I've only been using it for 2 days so far.


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## waxking

Just hooked mine up today. I get flickering every 5 seconds on any channel through the HDMI/DVI connection. The flickering happens on over the air channels also. Component output works fine. My build was in June 2004.


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## 483

June 2004 in Mexico goes down after one week and one day.

That is aggressively below average!


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## ROBERTA

HDMI FAILURE OUT OF THE BOX. NO VIDEO, BUT ALL OTHER OUTPUTS WORK. UNIT WAS ASSEMBLED IN MEXICO. I HAVE A SERVICE AGREEMENT WITH PEGASUS. I HOPE FOR A QUICK EXCHANGE.


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## DonCo

No picture at all with HDMI to HDMI connection and no picture at all with HDMI to DVI connection from the day I took it out of the box.

Made in USA April 27, 04.

Since I am using component output's which have no problem, I am holding off asking for a replacement from DirecTV (I have their service plan) until they have this fixed once and for all, as I don't want to get another defective unit as a replacement.

Still love the HD TiVo in spite of the HDMI problem though.

Don


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## silversurfer

Made in Mexico
5 June 04

Died 9 Jul 04

Replacement on its way...


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## turls

Mexico, June 9

HDMI to Sammy DLP DVI

Great picture so far, knock on wood


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## gimp

My HDMI failed today. I got one of the first ones. How long is the warranty? Do I call D* or Value Electronics? Will they send me a new one or do I need to return the existing one first? Think I will sign up for the D* equipment service plan


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## unixadm

If it is over 30 days old (which is sounds like it is), then most retailers will defer you over to the manufacturer to go through warranty service. Check in your manual. I believe that the warranty is 1 year. If you are going through manufacturer's warranty, you will have to send it out and they will repair it, or send you a refurbished one (or if you are lucky, a new one).

Mine died less than 30 days from getting it from Circuit City, so I just returned it and got my money back. They don't have any in stock, and don't know when they will have them.....but I've decided (mainly because of the number of failures) that I don't want a replacement until we hear definititively what the issue with the HDMI output is and that it is permanantly fixed. 

Based off of this poll, there is a 27.8% failure rate not including those that have not tested their HDMI port. My guess is that about 1/4 of those are bad as well (or will go bad if put in use). This is just WAY too much. 

I'll take the money and take my family to Disney World next month 

Guess it is standard Definition TiVo for me for a while.


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## gimp

Fortunately I got it from Value Electronics. Called them today and a new one is on the way. Value Electronics is G R E A T!


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## Korkle

One more to the growing number. My HDMI went "south" over the weekend. I had all the same visual experiences as everyone else. I switched over to Component. I got my unit from Value Electronics in the first wave 4/30/04). It worked fine up until the failure. I called VE and they said they would take care of it. I agree with gimp, VE has been great.


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## ajlevine

My HDMI went out at about 6 weeks. It was working perfectly, but now has a green cast to it. Component looks great.

I'm not going to get it replaced until there is a clear resolution to the problem. I don't want to go through the replacement hassle until I'm sure the problem is solved.

-Andy


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## FlyingAvanti

Got mine last night!

HDMI was "still born"!

Totally "PINK" picture.......

Component output works great. 

DirecTV stated that an engineer will call me within 24 hours! My plan is to email him this thread, if he doubts my word........


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## allenn

Purchased CC 6/30
Arrived 7/2
Assembled 6/19/2004 in Mexico
Software 3.1.5-01-2-357
Dolby Digital 5.1 Day 1
Logos Day 1
Showcase Day 3
DVI Connection to Samsung 50" DLP


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## Joe Jensen

Unit installed 7/8, HDMI worked great. Used it for 4 days, worked great. Just returned from a 5 day vacation and now the HDMI has no blue, and little green. Component is great...joe


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## drewcaplan

Here are my symptoms, wonder if I have a bad HDMI port. Supposedly, according to the manual, if you plug in the HDMI cable then component is disabled. Component never disables for me. I get NO SIGNAL at all from HDMI most of the time. The exception is if I reboot, I get the "few more seconds" screens and the like, but then the picture goes away to pure blue (blank). I am using a DVDO HD scaler, connected with the DVI to HDMI cable to the Tivo. The scaler is then hooked component to my Sony XBR.

Thoughts?


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## Dogen

> _Originally posted by sotapoppy _
> *
> 
> BTW I'm the only one that has had an HDMI port failure. D* CSR told me so!  *


I thought I was the only one. Why would they lie to me like that? 

They also tried to tell me if the same thing happened again they wouldn't replace it and it would show that there was a problem with the tv, not the tivo. Right.


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## Dan Herrmann II

I was on the phone with D* for an hour yesterday. They told me the problem is with the way the hdmi card was not properly attached to the rest of the TiVo.

It took an hour, but they're sending me a new one.... (They were all very nice, but very busy). 

They told me that this problem was affecting many, many HD TiVos.


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## mfleming

Just tried to use my new one. HDMI connection never worked at all. Component works. Made in Mexico.


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## OmarG

Still no sense of a permanent fix from D*? I've had a snowy-HDMI port (cuts out to a static/snow screen after a few minutes of DVI) since I got it and have been hoping a fix/hardware update would be announced before I give up my unit for another (potentially identical-problem-plagued) box. 

I'm still waiting.


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## mfleming

Is there a way to know when this problem is fixed in new units? I'm thinking about waiting until they are all fixed first.


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## pdoyle

I received my unit 3 weeks ago from CC. HDMI has been great. Yeaterday it failed. :-(

Pat


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## Korkle

I just received my replacement box from Direct TV. One call to VE and the problem was taken care of. They (VE) contacted Direct TV and had the new one shipped out. I even got a prepaid FedEx label to ship the old one back.


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## mfleming

Who is VE?


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## Moral Kiosk

HDMI and ALL outputs failed (but I still get sound, oddly enough). Called Directv and they're shipping me a new one ASAP. 

Love the box, but would prefer it didn't go bust after 3 months of use. Bizarro. 

I have to give Directv some credit, they immediately offered to send out a new box. Despite this, I continue to be a happy Directv customer.


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## litzdog911

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> *Who is VE? *


Value Electronics, one of the HR10-250 dealers well known here.


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## snork

I've waited my requisite 2 weeks. No problems on HDMI>HDMI to a Panasonic Plasma.

No problems, yet.


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## sherlocc

My unit was order number 111 from VE which dates me back to 4/22/2004. I have had no problems at all with the HDMI to DVI connection from the HD-210 to my Sony plasma. For those of you counting, that is more than 3 months without failure. I hope I don't have to retract this statement in the future.


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## Dr_Death

My original unit went back with a bad hard drive, replacement arrived with HDMI/DVI failing out of the box. Mfg. USA 4-30-04.


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## Joe Jensen

Hookd it back up today after a week and it is now working. I'm confused...joe


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## paul01463

I use the HR10-250 HDMI to connect directly to the HDMI input of my Panasonic plasma screen. The cable is a straight run with no HDMI-to-DVI conversions or any other modification. On start-up (from standby) the HR10-250 video has a pink hue, and the picture detail itself is very faint. Toggling the HR10-250 from 1080i to 480p and back to 1080i, either using the remote control or the HR10-250 front-panel controls, resolves the issue. The start-up sequence, plasma screen then HR10-250, HR10-250 then plasma screen, does not affect the problem. The problem does not occur when any other HDMI source is connected to the screen.

My first theory is that the problem my be related to how the HR10-250 copy protection views the HDMI. I seem to recall that HDMI forces the source and sink devices to validate copy-protection and establish a valid "session". Thus, turning the plasma screen off then on, corrupts the session, but the session is not terminated by the HR10-250 because it keeps the HDMI up while it is in standby. Toggling between 1080i and 480p forces the copy protection to renegotiate the session. 

My second theory is my HR10-250 is simply buggered up.


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## Toeside

My HDMI port failed. Been in service since early May. I'm using component for now. What's the concensus; get it replaced now, or wait for a possible REAL fix?

I do want it replaced before the fall season starts. 

Craig


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## Mark Lopez

For those who have their HDMI fail have you tried this? I ask because I thought I lost my HDMI too when I accidentally up buttoned to 480i and lost the picture (since 480i is not supported on my TV via HDMI) Subsequent up button presses no longer worked and thus the port apeared dead. After doing the following sequence all was well again. It was as if once the the TV reported that it was not a supported mode, Tivo locked it out totally. This was on HDMI to HDMI but might be worth a try.

1. Select 480i and connect to TV via s-video.
2. Connect HDMI to DVI cable to Tivo and TV
3. While still on s-video, go into menu and select 720p (or 1080i). You should loose the picture on s-video.
4 Switch TV to DVI (or HMDI) input and see if picture is back. If so, you should get prompted to press thumbs up 3 times.


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## MichaelK

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *For those who have their HDMI fail have you tried this? I ask because I thought I lost my HDMI too when I accidentally up buttoned to 480i and lost the picture (since 480i is not supported on my TV via HDMI) Subsequent up button presses no longer worked and thus the port apeared dead. After doing the following sequence all was well again. It was as if once the the TV reported that it was not a supported mode, Tivo locked it out totally. This was on HDMI to HDMI but might be worth a try.
> 
> 1. Select 480i and connect to TV via s-video.
> 2. Connect HDMI to DVI cable to Tivo and TV
> 3. While still on s-video, go into menu and select 720p (or 1080i). You should loose the picture on s-video.
> 4 Switch TV to DVI (or HMDI) input and see if picture is back. If so, you should get prompted to press thumbs up 3 times. *


interesting.

havent been around in a while (work got crazy busy...) so i just started reading here again yesterday after like a month. Saw this thread and was surprised. First explanation about bad daughter board connection made sense (I seem to recall someone very early one had an issue and opened the unit and jiggled the daughter board and fixed it?) And the snowy picture sure sounds like a poor contact. But then I say that a bunch of people have had multiple failures. Made me wonder if there isnt some interaction between particular tv's and the tivos that is causing this. Maybe there are a bunch of different issues...

MArk's post along with drewcaplan's here ->



> Here are my symptoms, wonder if I have a bad HDMI port. Supposedly, according to the manual, if you plug in the HDMI cable then component is disabled. Component never disables for me. I get NO SIGNAL at all from HDMI most of the time. The exception is if I reboot, I get the "few more seconds" screens and the like, but then the picture goes away to pure blue (blank). I am using a DVDO HD scaler, connected with the DVI to HDMI cable to the Tivo. The scaler is then hooked component to my Sony XBR.


makes me wonder if some how the boxes dont get stuck on only allowing 480i or something else funny. Mark's box definately was stuck on that. I seem to recall that the first boot (few more seconds...) is 480i- so seems drewcaplan's box can do 480i but nothing else over HDMI?

and paul01463's box has an issue where he needs to toggle to 480p to force a synch. Maybe he is onto something about the copy protection? Is it possible that if the boxes dont think they have a secure connection that they revert to 480 (i or p)?

Very strange.

Luckily I have no issues so far - knock on wood. Had mine for a month or 2- fairly early from VE.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by MichaelK _
> * I seem to recall that the first boot (few more seconds...) is 480i- *


I have to wonder about this. If I try to select 480i going from HDMI to HDMI on my Sammy DLP, the TV says 'unsupported mode' and I loose the picture as mentioned above. However, I do get a display the whole time I'm powering up, so I don't know whats going on. I guess I can do a reboot and (using the TV's info button) see what the Tivo is actually outputting on the HDMI during boot up. If it is 480i, then why does the TV give 'unsupported mode' if I select it later? Hmmm....


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## paul01463

I am convinced at this point that the problems seen with my installation are rooted in the copy protection issue. It would be worthwhile to find out from HNS how the unit'scopy-protection session is initiated and reset when the unit is brought out of standby. I will try to track someone down to explain this, but I suspect it's going to be a long road fraught with dead ends and frustration before I get a reasonable answer.


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## mfleming

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *I have to wonder about this. If I try to select 480i going from HDMI to HDMI on my Sammy DLP, the TV says 'unsupported mode' and I loose the picture as mentioned above. However, I do get a display the whole time I'm powering up, so I don't know whats going on. I guess I can do a reboot and (using the TV's info button) see what the Tivo is actually outputting on the HDMI during boot up. If it is 480i, then why does the TV give 'unsupported mode' if I select it later? Hmmm.... *


I too have a Sammy DLP (5063). My unit also did not work with the HDMI output, yet did with component video. For what it's worth I just wanted to throw out that when connected via HDMI, the HR10-250 lit up the 720p light as the connection. So it seemed like it had done some sort of handshake and understood that the TV was set to 720p (it's native resolution).


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> *I too have a Sammy DLP (5063). My unit also did not work with the HDMI output, yet did with component video. For what it's worth I just wanted to throw out that when connected via HDMI, the HR10-250 lit up the 720p light as the connection. So it seemed like it had done some sort of handshake and understood that the TV was set to 720p (it's native resolution). *


Thats the set I have too. What I'm wondering is, if somehow the 'handshaking' gets screwed up as it did when I tried to go to 480i, does the Tivo then somehow then lock out the HDMI port totally. Do you still have the same Tivo? If so, can you try the steps I listed above?


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## mfleming

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *Thats the set I have too. What I'm wondering is, if somehow the 'handshaking' gets screwed up as it did when I tried to go to 480i, does the Tivo then somehow then lock out the HDMI port totally. Do you still have the same Tivo? If so, can you try the steps I listed above? *


I sent it back. I spent three hours on it--tried all the different resolutions, hdmi-hdmi-dvi, _tried_ to get someone at Samsun (hopeless) to help, tried both Pegasus and DTV (both pointed fingers at the other). I finally had to give up and once I read this thread I figured it was just a bad HR10 unit.

I'm really anxious to buy another, but I'm afraid to go through it all again until I know it's fixed. With the reports of how HDMI connections once worked for some, and then just went bad on their own with no changes by the user, it sounds more like faulty parts/production than some sort of configuration error.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> * With the reports of how HDMI connections once worked for some, and then just went bad on their own with no changes by the user, it sounds more like faulty parts/production than some sort of configuration error. *


It may very well be that there are faulty parts for some/most people. I just want people to be aware that it aparently is possible to 'kill' the port under some circumstances but yet be able to get it back.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *I have to wonder about this. If I try to select 480i going from HDMI to HDMI on my Sammy DLP, the TV says 'unsupported mode' and I loose the picture as mentioned above. However, I do get a display the whole time I'm powering up, so I don't know whats going on. I guess I can do a reboot and (using the TV's info button) see what the Tivo is actually outputting on the HDMI during boot up. If it is 480i, then why does the TV give 'unsupported mode' if I select it later? Hmmm.... *


Well, I did a test. I rebooted and the Tivo powered up in *480p* mode until it was done acquiring the sat. Then it switched to 720p that I normally have it set for.

Next I tried setting the up button to go to 480i again which is not supported on my set over HDMI. When I switched, of course I lost the picture, but this time I was able to switch back with the up button. Last time it got 'stuck' at 480i and I was not able to switch back until connecting via s-video and manually changing it in the menu.

What does this prove? Nothing.  Well, it does prove that during the handshaking at boot up, the Tivo knows my set does not support 480i over HDMI so it goes to 480p. I am speculating that for whatever reason (glitch or bug) when I switched to 480i the other day, the Tivo decided to lock out the other modes. Perhaps it got confused because of the unsuported mode (i.e. didn't get the proper responce form the TV) and thought there was nothing connected to the HDMI port and turned it off.

Anyway, I done playing before I do break it.


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## zamboni_dog

Uh oh. I've had my HR10-250 just over two weeks. I appear to have a HDMI failure. I haven't read many descriptions of failures like mine though. I still get an image put it is "posterized" or "solarized" where there are only a few different colors that make up the whole image. Anyone else have this? My component video is alive and kicking though.

Rather than going through CC, I was thinking of calling D*. I want them to know the kind of failure rates here are unacceptable. (I also have audio popping that is very annoying. Anyone have that go away when they got a replacement unit?)


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## grafals

I bought a replacement cable just to check. It ain't the cable! 

Mine was dead right out of the box. I guess I'm calling DirecTV!


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## grafals

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *For those who have their HDMI fail have you tried this? I ask because I thought I lost my HDMI too when I accidentally up buttoned to 480i and lost the picture (since 480i is not supported on my TV via HDMI) Subsequent up button presses no longer worked and thus the port apeared dead. After doing the following sequence all was well again. It was as if once the the TV reported that it was not a supported mode, Tivo locked it out totally. This was on HDMI to HDMI but might be worth a try.
> 
> 1. Select 480i and connect to TV via s-video.
> 2. Connect HDMI to DVI cable to Tivo and TV
> 3. While still on s-video, go into menu and select 720p (or 1080i). You should loose the picture on s-video.
> 4 Switch TV to DVI (or HMDI) input and see if picture is back. If so, you should get prompted to press thumbs up 3 times. *


I tried. It didn't work.


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## unixadm

> _Originally posted by zamboni_dog _
> *Uh oh. I've had my HR10-250 just over two weeks. I appear to have a HDMI failure. I haven't read many descriptions of failures like mine though. I still get an image put it is "posterized" or "solarized" where there are only a few different colors that make up the whole image. Anyone else have this? My component video is alive and kicking though.
> 
> Rather than going through CC, I was thinking of calling D*. I want them to know the kind of failure rates here are unacceptable. (I also have audio popping that is very annoying. Anyone have that go away when they got a replacement unit?) *


That is the exact symptoms of mine at failure. Colors looked funny and looked almost like a negative. I went into menus and they were "solarized"....looked like when I put my digital video camera on one of the special effects modes.

I rebooted, and it never came back......NOTHING on the screen even during beginning boot stages. All other outputs worked fine, but nothing on HDMI no matter what I did.

Definitely a hardware issue, not a configuration issue, from what I saw on mine.


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## buzzword

Can I change my vote???

I originally voted no problems, and have had the machine since late April 26 (I was #207 on the VE list).

It's been working fine, until last week when my HDMI port died, just went blank.

I received a replacement machine, but the new one exhibits a different problem right out of the box. On the new one (mfg date June 26) the HDMI port outputs a picture, but displays 3 distinct bands of green tint across the screen <sigh>

It's back to the component video outputs while waitnig for another replacement.


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## mfleming

Man, this is so frustrating! Got my new Samsung DLP and cannot even watch HD TV! But, I'm still going to wait until the HR10 problem is fixed.


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## cliff1371

hdmi was DOA yesterday, what a JOKE! $1000 bucks and these clowns can't fix this problem. I am outraged!


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## MrCoolDu4

You can count me in too. HDMI worked for just over a month and now the picture is washed out pink. Being as its over a month, CC won't replace it and DTV is telling me to test it with another cable. I guess I'm supposed to buy one and if thats not it then take it back and get a refund. Although I did purchase with a AMEX card and I am wondering if they have purchase protection that I could use. Anyway, thats my story. Argh %#^@*&


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## grafals

With TIVO's stock down to about $5 per share and their new portable technology hung up in copyright protection red tape, I think this albatross is pretty important to them. This is shaping up to be really sad. They are struggling and this box sells like hotcakes for $1,000 per. Yet, there is no one else making or selling a competing unit, and the only one you can buy is inextricably intertwined with DTV and works perfectly . . . 75% of the time.

Is it any wonder TIVO's future is in doubt?


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## cnr1089

How do you tell where/when your tivo was made?


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## t.b.

Got mine 07/27/04 - I do not use HDMI, my PioneerE 610 only has component, but I took the box to a friend who has testing equipment and the HDMI AND Component Outputs are both sending Zero signal strength.

BTW- D* is out of replacement boxes at the moment. 7-10 days before they get their new shipment.


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## davelogie

Voted last night that I was having NO problems. Went upstairs and my wife was watching HDNet convention coverage from Mon. Suddenly I was getting flashes of black every few minutes. Seemed to go away but then I saw it once while watching another recorded show (SD). I've had the thing a few months.

Maybe I'm paranoid but is this a precursor to full failure? Never saw it before. Sat reception behavior is different.

I didn't get the DTV hardware plan but I have a one yr warranty, right? Figured I'd buy an extended warranty sometime before my yr was up. *IF* I do have a failure, do I contact DTV or CC?

Maybe this thread *is* a jinx. 

Dave


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## heathramos

I got my hd tivo yesterday.

HDMI to DMI connection didn't work right out of the box.

D* is going to give me a replacement but they are backordered.

Will have to use component in the meantime.


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## mfleming

Has even one person here heard anything from any company that sells this disasterous unit as to what Hughes is doing about it?


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## coreymcl

Just received my HD DVR from Value Electronics today and both HD outputs are not working. Very disappointing considering I order this unit on 3/6/04.


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## robnalex

What are the common symptoms? I've had my HR10-250 for about 2.5 months, but my TV only had component in, so I couldn't test my HDMI. Today my new Panny Plasma arrived, and I get a total garbage from hell picture through HDMI- green bands, wild changing colors from hell. Sound familiar? 

I have a 4-year warranty from CC, so like others, I may just wait until this issue has been corrected.

Component out PQ is stunning on the new Panny.


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## wmforbm

I just purchased the 10-250...I was using the HDMI-DVI cable...but I noticed the pic was interior...went to component and it seems ok.


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## Dan Herrmann II

*My replacement from D* was also defective! Again - another friggin hour on the phone with clueless CSRs, and more anger at this product and DirecTV and TiVo. UGHHHHHHH!!!! *

SHAME ON DIRECTV
SHAME ON TIVO

     

robandalex - Congratulations - you have yet another defective HDMI output. Time to get a new one - but wait - the "fixed" ones are crap too.


----------



## llogan

No problems, four different units tested and still in use.


----------



## mfleming

> _Originally posted by llogan _
> *No problems, four different units tested and still in use. *


In this environment, you can probably sell those problem-free units for $2,000! LOL!


----------



## BarneyGoogle

How about adding don't know where it was made?

Sent mine back before I checked -- I ONLY want to use


----------



## cnr1089

Ok, just got off the phone with Direct TV, they are sending me a replacement for my DVI problem. By the time I get my replacement unit, my Tivo will be about 2.5 weeks old. Would it be stupid of me to put the hard drive from my current Tivo into my replacement Tivo? Is it hard to do without making it obvious?


----------



## Wild Wild West

A few days ago when I turned on my TV, which uses a HDMI TO DVI cable to my TiVo, all I got was a blank screen. After some experimenting the only way I could get something on my screen was by pulling the power plug on the TiVo, waiting 30 seconds then plugging the power back in. At this time there was also no sound. 

As the Tivo came up the TV screen showed the "Welcome, powering up" message for 2 to 3 minutes, again with no sound, then went blank again.

After several calls to D, all to no avail, they came up with the hard drive must have failed, you need to return it to your dealer (since it was less than 30 days in my hands).

I then tried something else. I pulled the HDMI cable and installed component cables and switched the TV to the component inputs, and guess what? It worked.

So on a hunch I went to the restart or reset screen and selected the top choice "restart the recorder". I then powered down the TV and the TiVo and changed back to the HDMI cable and selected the appropriate input on the TV and the HDMI has worked ever since. 

I would be very interested in knowing if this same method helps any of you too, especially since most of you don't completely lose picture and sound, just experience a bad picture. Please respond with your results.


----------



## cnr1089

Oh, those with HDMI problems. Has anyone actually tried opening the box and "re-seating" the connection? According to DirectTV it is an unseated HDMI connected, is this something I can do? Or does it need more then that?


----------



## cnr1089

Ok, so I opened the box and "re-seated" the HDMI card, no go. I think there are faulty parts and they are trying to blame it on a moving part to blame the shipping rather then the actual box.

I guess I have to wait for my replacement:-(


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by Wild Wild West _
> *I then tried something else. I pulled the HDMI cable and installed component cables and switched the TV to the component inputs, and guess what? It worked.
> 
> So on a hunch I went to the restart or reset screen and selected the top choice "restart the recorder". I then powered down the TV and the TiVo and changed back to the HDMI cable and selected the appropriate input on the TV and the HDMI has worked ever since.
> 
> I would be very interested in knowing if this same method helps any of you too, especially since most of you don't completely lose picture and sound, just experience a bad picture. Please respond with your results. *


I tried that (resetting/restarting, changing cables, unplugging, etc.). None of that worked. I think I'm in agreement with those who have suggested a hardware failure or mfg. defect.

I haven't opened the case to poke at the connectors. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has, since many keep suggesting its nothing more than a loose connection. But, I'm skeptical. Afterall, what are the chances that hundreds of boxes are put together with the same loose cable. Maybe we should be looking to see if all the defective ones were put together at 4:59pm on Friday, or immediately prior to someone's break!

My bet is it's a more severe design flaw or defect.

As for what to do, with boxes still selling on eBay for upwards of $1500, I wonder if I could sell this one for what I paid (or maybe even an extra hundred bucks or two) if I sold it as is and disclosed that the HDMI doesn't work. For those out there who don't use HDMI or DVI, it would work perfectly.

So, maybe I can make some lemonade out of this lemon? Any takers?


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by davelogie _
> *Voted last night that I was having NO problems. Went upstairs and my wife was watching HDNet convention coverage from Mon. Suddenly I was getting flashes of black every few minutes. *


That's not the TIVO, it's your choice of program! (JUST KIDDING!, Don't get mad!)


----------



## grafals

Based on what I read here, I called DTV to tell them I had the problem and see if they'd just send me a replacement when they had one available (I'm using component vid w/no problems in the meantime). 

As noted in some prior posts, I am the first person the supervisor has spoken with who has experienced the problem. I told him there are literally dozens of others reporting the problem and an actual poll shows about 20% to 25% failure rate. He dismissed it as unscientific and said that I should return it to the retailer. He was rather certain that the next unit wouldn't have the same problem.

At least I can take comfort in knowing that I'm the only one who has experienced this problem!


----------



## bandomir_m

I'm a first time poster so please be gentle.

I also have just acquired the new HD TIVO, and am having DVI/HDMI issues. I'm experiencing the same issues as unixadm and zamboni_dog.
Have either of you resolved the problem ???

My component HD works fine, but the HDMI to DVI gives the posterized/negative looking pink image.

I'm feeding the DVI signal into a Dtronics DVI switch (which is HDCP compliant) and then to a Sceptre 30" LCD TV (also HDCP compliant).

I know that the LCD TV, and the DVI switch are HDCP compliant, and they function properly, because I'm also using a Samsung STB (SIR-T165) with the DVI output (set at 720P/1080i both resolutions work, but 720P is native).

I'd like to know the best way to resolve this as my 30 day window to return the unit to CC is going quick.


Thanks, Martin


----------



## evdb

After calling Tweeter to complain, they told me my HDMI to DVI problem was isolated. Hard to believe after seeing this forum.

I got my HD DriecTivo unit in June, the HDMI to DVI connection failed in early July, and I am still waiting for a replacement from Tweeter. DirecTV said I had to go through the retailer for warranty. Many posts dispute that.

BTW, I am now using the Component connection and it simply doesn't compare to DVI. I would never consider a set without DVI. 

Is there a future for this box?


----------



## unixadm

> _Originally posted by bandomir_m _
> *I'm a first time poster so please be gentle.
> 
> I also have just acquired the new HD TIVO, and am having DVI/HDMI issues. I'm experiencing the same issues as unixadm and zamboni_dog.
> 
> I'd like to know the best way to resolve this as my 30 day window to return the unit to CC is going quick.
> 
> Thanks, Martin *


My resolution was to return it to CC and get a refund. I figure I will wait until I hear that there is a definite resolution to the problem before getting a replacement.


----------



## Moral Kiosk

> _Originally posted by unixadm _
> *My resolution was to return it to CC and get a refund. I figure I will wait until I hear that there is a definite resolution to the problem before getting a replacement. *


I called Directv instead of CC and they fedexed me a replacement box within two days. I figure I'll ride Directv for new boxes each time they fail, until they get it right. I don't trust Circuit City.


----------



## Toeside

> _Originally posted by grafals _
> *I tried that (resetting/restarting, changing cables, unplugging, etc.). None of that worked. I think I'm in agreement with those who have suggested a hardware failure or mfg. defect.
> 
> I haven't opened the case to poke at the connectors. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has, since many keep suggesting its nothing more than a loose connection. But, I'm skeptical. Afterall, what are the chances that hundreds of boxes are put together with the same loose cable. Maybe we should be looking to see if all the defective ones were put together at 4:59pm on Friday, or immediately prior to someone's break!
> 
> My bet is it's a more severe design flaw or defect.
> 
> As for what to do, with boxes still selling on eBay for upwards of $1500, I wonder if I could sell this one for what I paid (or maybe even an extra hundred bucks or two) if I sold it as is and disclosed that the HDMI doesn't work. For those out there who don't use HDMI or DVI, it would work perfectly.
> 
> So, maybe I can make some lemonade out of this lemon? Any takers? *


I don't understand. You can get it replaced under warranty, so why would you want to try to sell something not 100% functional and deal with the headaches that would go along with it?

If you just want to sell it, get it replaced, then sell it.

Craig


----------



## Watchguy

I received mine on 8/3 Hdmi/dvi dead on installation. Blank screen on TV, Mitsubishi 65". Component output works fine. I have been using Sony Hi def receiver conecting through dvi with no problems. DTV tried to tell me that it could be a bad cable. I asked them to send a new cable along with my new tivo and they agreed. They would not admit there was any defect. When I told them that there were at least 200 failures reported the CSR said he could not comment. New one is on the way


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by Toeside _
> *I don't understand. You can get it replaced under warranty, so why would you want to try to sell something not 100% functional and deal with the headaches that would go along with it?
> 
> If you just want to sell it, get it replaced, then sell it.
> 
> Craig *


I was actually just kidding. But, since you ask, the concept is that if I can buy a box for $999, and yet there are people on eBay paying upwards of $1,400 for one, then I could (theoretically) offer to sell my defective box, I paid $999 for to one of those poor suckers (I mean discerning chaps), who is willing to pay a premium just to have one. My HDMI doesn't work, but if someone on eBay wanted to use component video and didn't care about HDMI, then he could buy my box for as little as $1,100 or $1,200 instead of the $1,400 or more some people are paying. Then he'd be saving himself a couple of hundred off of what some are paying, and I'd profit $100 or $200 by selling a defective box. Then I could buy a replacement later.

Get it?

(Just checked . . . I see them for $1,439 on eBay)

I wouldn't really do that, unless someone really wanted it and knew it was defective. I was really just kidding. But, I can never understand why people would pay that kind of premium rather than just wait a few months. I guess if you've got it, spend it.


----------



## mfleming

Man, if those poor suckers on eBay knew what they were getting for $1429!


----------



## pbolya

I just found this thread so let me summarize what happened to me. My HDMI was always acting up I just thought it was normal. When I woke it up most of the time it just displayed a gray screen until I changed channels or went to a menu. Lot of time just displayed snow for a couple of seconds etc. However 24 hours after I upgraded it it to 63 hours it went blank. I took it apart and finally fixed it with inserting a plastic separator between a metal pin and the HDMI card. See the full story with posted pictures here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2113154#post2113154


----------



## unixadm

Great to hear pbolya....now if SOMEONE at DirecTV, Hughes or TiVo would admit that they are aware of such an issue and know that all new boxes have this resolved, then I will spend my money on buying a replacement!


----------



## tropicaldreamer

I have had three Mexican built unit failures out of three tries. I also returned all to CC. Waiting for a new Sammy to come out then try another unit. I do miss it already though.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by tropicaldreamer _
> *I have had three Mexican built unit failures out of three tries. I also returned all to CC. Waiting for a new Sammy to come out then try another unit. I do miss it already though. *


 That is exactly my problem. There is blood dripping down my unit. It is worries me that I had to do this fix and theoretically it could go blind again for no reason. I am missing the the Logos which is a really big deal in my family but I can not imagine living without this box anymore. The alternative to go back to SD is unacceptable. So I just keep my H688 in my right hand and the duck tape in my left while I keep watching HD TiVo.

Warning: This note contains violent images. Parental guidance is advised.


----------



## wizman44

I'm having the same problems with HDMI as everyone. It worked for 2 days and pooped out. I thought I was going nuts because no one I talked to had ever heard of it before, blah, blah, blah! I bought mine at Ultimate Electronics about 3 weeks ago. I decided to call their corporate offices to see if they had heard any news. I got the standard response of " no we don't have any reports or knowledge of a problem, but we'll keep record of your complaint." The other thing I can't figure out is, is the picture quality really better with HDMI as opposed to Component? All my electronics buddies and 1 guru say it doesn't matter. This seems illogical because then why would they put a HDMI jack on in the first place?
By the way, I bought a Mitsubishi 82" LcOS TV and am (was) using the HDMI-DVI cable to connect my awesome, huge, Mits.


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by wizman44 _
> *The other thing I can't figure out is, is the picture quality really better with HDMI as opposed to Component? All my electronics buddies and 1 guru say it doesn't matter. This seems illogical because then why would they put a HDMI jack on in the first place?
> *


I'm not a guru so I will yield to anyone who contradicts me claiming to be one. But, here is my UNDERSTANDING based on what I have read. The key to quality for digital transmission is that it stay digital without any conversion as long as possible. If it is converted to analog and then re-converted to digital, there is probably data degredation. Or if it is converted to analog then transmitted by wire to a long distance away, there is probably signal degredation and noise.

The Component video out is the decoded digital signal coming from the box's digital to analog converter and going straight into the output of the TV (this is also why copy protect signals don't transmit via component or composite video). So, the transmission via the component video run opens the possibility of signal degredation and noise into the display. It is perhaps minimal, but ultimately not QUITE as good as if the conversion took place at the display source. Note also that a poor component cable can cause a poor picture, whereas even the cheapest of HDMI or DVI cable will still transmit a perfect picture, if it transmits at all. (i.e. don't buy Monstor DVI cables, they don't help).

On the other hand, the HDMI or DVI channel is a pure digital signal. It is faster in transmission, and the conversion takes place closer to the output, using the TV's digital to analog converter so interference is less of a factor.

Even so, what could potentially be a factor is if the converter in your TV is inferior to the converter in your receiver. In that case, you might actually get a better picture from the receiver.

Thus, I have expended all I know (or purport to know) on the subject. Don't take it to the bank (I'm not an electrical engineer). But, it is what I have read and been told. Anyone want to expand or contradict?


----------



## MrCoolDu4

I bought my first HDTivo at CC in June. HDMI out worked perfectly for 35 days and then saturated pink. CC only replaces up to 30 days so they told me to contact DirecTV. I did that and after jumping thru a few hoops, they sent me a new unit and......guess what ? No picture on the HDMI out......blank screen. I've been on the phone with them much longer than I wish to be and talked to many DirecTV employees who are semi-retarded. Lets see, one put me on hold for a second and 20 minutes later was still not back. Oh and then theres the transfer me to an extension that is busy.....I love that one. What recourse do we have ??? I didn't pay $1000 to end up with something I cannot use as I intended to because of someone elses error.


----------



## robnalex

> _Originally posted by MrCoolDu4 _
> *I bought my first HDTivo at CC in June. HDMI out worked perfectly for 35 days and then saturated pink. CC only replaces up to 30 days so they told me to contact DirecTV. I did that and after jumping thru a few hoops, they sent me a new unit and......guess what ? No picture on the HDMI out......blank screen. I've been on the phone with them much longer than I wish to be and talked to many DirecTV employees who are semi-retarded. Lets see, one put me on hold for a second and 20 minutes later was still not back. Oh and then theres the transfer me to an extension that is busy.....I love that one. What recourse do we have ??? I didn't pay $1000 to end up with something I cannot use as I intended to because of someone elses error. *


 The next time you call DirecTV ask to be connected to the DVR Specialty Group.


----------



## falstaffpac

I wanted to share with you what I did to correct this problem. My results were based on pbolya's success discussed earlier in this thread. My HDMI stopped working after the addition of the TwinBreeze last week, I've since been using component. I decided to try a few things tonight. First I removed the screws anchoring the HDMI card and unseated the card from the circuit board. I then re-seated and tried applying pressure to different points on the card, none of which resulted in a picture.

I then straightened the anchoring pin and applied forward pressure on the card with a small screwdriver. When pressure was applied about 7/8 down the back of the card, the picture came on. I then took a small peice of metal and wedged it between the anchoring pin and the HDMI card. Presto, picture. My picture has been very stable since. I've unplugged the HDMI cable several times and always get a picture when I re-insert the cable.

I'm not trying to advocate that any of you do this, but for those of you who have already voided your warranty, I give you the solution which worked for me. Be very careful tinkering inside your Tivo if you have power going to it. I got a jolt when sliding the lid back on. I did take a picture so you can see what I did, but I can't get it posted. I will forward it to anyone who wants to see it.

Now, about those darn logos....

Cheers,
Falstaffpac


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by falstaffpac _
> *My HDMI stopped working after the addition of the TwinBreeze last week, *


Not that I'm not thrilled to hear this, but what about anyone whose HDMI died of "natural causes" and not due to an upgrade? I would like to hear from someone who fixed a failure from the factory in this manner. Is the rash of failures due to the same problem? Or is this fix only for those who accidentally jostle their board while performing an upgrade?

BTW, how long is the factory warranty anyway?


----------



## pfdv

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by wizman44 
The other thing I can't figure out is, is the picture quality really better with HDMI as opposed to Component? All my electronics buddies and 1 guru say it doesn't matter. This seems illogical because then why would they put a HDMI jack on in the first place?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Also, for digital displays like DLPs, the analog signal from the component video is converted back to digital to work the mirrors in the DLP chip. So you have an unnecessary conversion to analog and then back to digital. With DVI and a DLP TV it's digital all the way to...your eyeballs?

Francois


----------



## falstaffpac

> Not that I'm not thrilled to hear this, but what about anyone whose HDMI died of "natural causes" and not due to an upgrade?


I feel I should clarify my statement. I do not wish to implicate the TwinBreeze as the cause of my HDMI failure, although I think it contributed to it. As you know, others have had their HDMI fail without upgrading. When placing the TwinBreeze into the Tivo, I bumped the HDMI card and I believe this is all that was necessary for it to stop working.

I'm happy with my TwinBreeze. I have used Weaknees products in the past and expect to in the future.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by falstaffpac _
> *....
> I did take a picture so you can see what I did, but I can't get it posted. I will forward it to anyone who wants to see it.
> 
> Now, about those darn logos....
> 
> Cheers,
> Falstaffpac *


 Falstaffpac,
If you PM me your picture I will post it for others to see. Also does everyone who has this issue are missing logos ? I am thinking that they where maybe playing with our TiVo's trying to fix some HDMI issue in the factory and than they reset it with clear and delete (which removes logos) before they sent it to the retailers. Now that fix is acting up. That is my conspiracy theory anyway.

Regards,
Peter


----------



## pbolya

Here is Falstaffpac's picture


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## jeshaffer

I have a 250 with what I believe is bad HDMI out of the box. The "support" person told me to try to find another cable and test it and call back if that does not work. Pic quality appears to be downrezzed like a high def background in 16 colors on a PC CRT. Do you believe this is indicative of a HDMI failure?


----------



## Aiman

jeshaffer, I have the same problem. Brand new unit just fired up last night.

The DirecTV CSR said that I had to get it replaced by the vendor, not D*. Sigh...

--Mark


----------



## jeshaffer

Thats interesting airman, D* csr told me to try a different HDMI cable and if that did not work they would ship me a replacement unit. I am sure I will be calling back this afternoon. I would call back again if you want a cross ship.


----------



## jeshaffer

Update for Aiman. I called back after the $130 cable did not work and they said I needed to exchange the HD Tivo with Circuit City. I said "This is ludicrous, I think I will just return it and then look at all of my options". Was placed on hold for a couple minutes and they said they would ship me a new unit instead. 

I double checked to ensure that it was new and not a refurb. They ensured me it would be new. I will check the build date etc when I receive it. Also these are the things they offered me. 

Mulitswitch
$150 credit
6 mos free HBO
3 mos free Showtime (3 more at $2 mo on a second call)
6 mos free HD package(had to mention reading about the HD activation on this one. 
$5 off Total Choice plus locals for 6 months

I still have not activated this unit. 

I am surprised that they did not offer anything else when I was so aggrevated about the HDMI problem. I will ask again when I call back to activate the new unit.


----------



## robnalex

Received my replacement from DirecTV today, built 7/6 Mexico, has logos. After going through the welcome screen the screen went black and my display indicated "no signal". My heart sank, as I was sure I'd gotten another one with bad HDMI. But I connected via component so I could see the menus, set up the up-resolution change buttons, plugged the HDMI cable back in, changed resolution from 480i where is was at startup and VIOLA! It works! The problem was that my display does not accept 480i through DVI. So when you get your replacement be sure to set up the outputs before you pronounce the HDMI out as dead. (Long thread- I'm sure this has been covered before.)


----------



## videoholic

> _Originally posted by jeshaffer _
> *I have a 250 with what I believe is bad HDMI out of the box. The "support" person told me to try to find another cable and test it and call back if that does not work. Pic quality appears to be downrezzed like a high def background in 16 colors on a PC CRT. Do you believe this is indicative of a HDMI failure? *


Same problem here as well.

Sent my info to Robert at VE and I should be getting a replacement from Direct TV. He took care of it for me.

You guys were saying you hope you get a new one and not a refurb. Wouldn't you rather have a refurb? At least it was looked at and fixed by a human.


----------



## ericlhyman

My unit was built on July 5. Where does it say whether it was built in US or Mexico? HDMI to DVI did not work right out of the box.


----------



## ericlhyman

Will signals actually be down-rezzed if the component out connection is used?


----------



## Slardybardfast

Just installed the HR10250 today. No picture from HDMI, nada, nothing. I do have a picture with component outputs. I have not activated service so all I am looking at is the startup screen. Manufacture date July 14 by manufacturer #400. No country of manufacture shown on the unit.

I am returning to local CC store.

Just wondering, do I need to activate the system to see something out of the hmdi output?


----------



## Dan Herrmann II

Well - I'm now on #3, and it too has a dead HDMI. Should I order #4 now, or wait till they figure out how to fix it (assuming it CAN be fixed).

Methinks it's time for DirecTV to recall these puppies and fix them.

You know what really stinks - when you call DirecTV they claim that you're the first AND ONLY person that has ever had the problem. After an hour on the phone, they finally 'capitulate' and send me another. (I have the D* protection plan). This has got to cost D* a lot of money to FedEx $1000 receivers across the country and back again.

Come on, DirecTV - fix the problem!!!


(By the way, HDMI, when it works, has a GREAT picture! Defintely better than composite - that's why we care so much)


----------



## robnalex

> _Originally posted by ericlhyman _
> *My unit was built on July 5. Where does it say whether it was built in US or Mexico? *


 On the box.


----------



## robnalex

> _Originally posted by ericlhyman _
> *My unit was built on July 5. Where does it say whether it was built in US or Mexico? HDMI to DVI did not work right out of the box. *


 Did you try it with different output resolutions? Mine was initially set at 480i, which my TV does not accept. At first I thought it was dead until I switched to component and changed the resolution out.


----------



## Larry Chanin

I've had my HD TiVo for all of 2-1/2 days, and all during that time the HDMI connection worked flawlessly. 

Now, just a few hours ago the unit absolutely refuses to boot up. A number of others with both standard and HD TiVo have had this problem. Those with experience in this sort of thing speculate that we're dealing with a hard drive quality issue (as well as this HDMI quality problem).

The ironic thing about this is that throughout this hard drive failure I get a very nice video image via HDMI displaying a message saying "Almost there. A few more seconds please...", but then of course nothing happens.  

Larry


----------



## mjstonez

I have had mine for 2 days. HDMI seems to work here and there but not constant....now I get a screen of snow then green, then snow....then green! Very dissapointed! I will hook up component for a few weeks and give DTV some time to maybe fix this......


----------



## Chris Gerhard

Have only had mine a few days but HDMI to DVI input on my XBR910 is working fine so I am going to keep it connected.

Chris


----------



## dknightx

I've got a slightly different problem than most:

If I take the supplied HDMI->DVI cable and use it to hook up to my JVC HX-1U projector, the Tivo will immediately reboot (as soon as the cable is plugged into my projector). It will go through the restart process and reboot as soon as it hits the "acquiring satellites" screen. This will repeat indefinitely.

If I unplug the cable from my projector, the problem goes away and bootup completes successfully (confirmed via component video cable).

By the way, my Tivo was working just fine for the past several weeks via the same cable to my projector. This is a recent problem (just last two days).

Is my HDMI output busted? Anybody else with similar issues?


-Dave


----------



## lawnmowerdeth

Two Questions:

1. I will be in the market for the HD TiVo next month. Is this DVI/HDCP output problem still prevalent? I bought my TV 6 months ago, along with the Samsung DVD-HD931 player with the built in 1080i upscaler, and have had no HDCP problems with it at all, so they can't blame the problem on the TV or cable.

2. My TV has only one HDCP input, does anyone have experience with the switchboxes I've seen available on the net, or any recommendations?


----------



## vonzoog

Got my new unit last Thursday and then this morning (Tuesday: just 5 days of use) all I had was "snow" on my HMDI connection. Still had sound. Started reading through this thread and decided to try a few things. The first thing that I tried worked. I unplugged the power to the TiVo and waited a few minute and powered (rebooted) back up. Everything is working fine again, for now.

I believe, by reading everything here, that the loose connection theory is most likely the issue. Causing total lost of DVI connection and/or loose enough that connection is lost and has to be reconnected by menu settings or rebooting the TiVo unit. Either way, this is not acceptable.

I have not voted yet since I have only had the unit for 5 days. I guess I will wait and see if the problem keeps reoccurring before I seek an exchange from D*. I don't want to open the box and take a chance of loosing my warranty.

Is it worth getting an exchange now and hoping that I get one of the "good" (3 out 4) units???

Any thoughts?


----------



## sushifishman

vonzoog,
Do you have a sony TV?


----------



## lonestar2

First HD DVR HDMI to DVI didn't work. Replaced by Directv and the connection works great except for the very bottom row on my Sammy 61" DLP not filling in. It instead has numerous rectangular boxes reflecting the picture. It's almost like a computer monitor that needs shifting down, but there is no shifting capability per Samsung rep. Any suggestions? Component fills entire screen perfectly, and even looks better than the DVI in some cases.


----------



## vonzoog

shshifishman,

No Sony. I have a Samsung HLN567W with the lipsync update making it a W1 model.


----------



## Slardybardfast

See my first post above.

I went through DirecTV troubleshooting over the phone with a second level tech. His conclusion was that the HDMI output was bad. 

I returned the HR10-250 and the 5-year service policy yesterday to my local CC story. They lose ~$1200 and I lost 8 hours of my time with that crappy piece of s**t.

I hope Hughes suffers hugely from this debacle.

I asked the tech if they were offering an upgrade from the standard HD receiver to a TIVO unit (I purchased mine directly from CC). He responded that they are not offering such an upgrade at this time since Hughes is the only one making such a unit and that the unit is not reliable enough. He said that maybe around Christmas, the price will come down and the reliability would improve, then DirecTV would offer such an upgrade.

I am hoping that a standalone TIVO or SonicBlue ReplayTV with HD capability will hit the market in the next 6 months or so. In the meantime, I will be satisfied with my current ReplayTV 5000 series with an upgraded (larger) HD. Actually, when the ReplayTV is fed the component output from my current Hughes HD receiver (non-Tivo), the final product is very good: a little soft, but very good.

I will miss the capability of adding an external HD TV antenna, as the HR10-250 had 2 ASTC tuners for OTA HD reception.


----------



## robnalex

With respect, I really don't understand the "all or nothing" philosophy. Sure, it would be nice if so many of these units did not have the HDMI trouble, but what's the big deal? My HDMI was bad and D* exchanged it for one that works. If this one goes bad I can exchange it again or just wait, since I seem to get slightly better PQ with component anyway. Why would I want to give up the fabulous ability to record HD over a minor inconvenience?


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *With respect, I really don't understand the "all or nothing" philosophy. Sure, it would be nice if so many of these units did not have the HDMI trouble, but what's the big deal? My HDMI was bad and D* exchanged it for one that works. If this one goes bad I can exchange it again or just wait, since I seem to get slightly better PQ with component anyway. Why would I want to give up the fabulous ability to record HD over a minor inconvenience? *


 I agree. It does not cost a thing to replace it. I know it is a lot of hassle but this thing is a beauty when it works and if you payed $1000 for this unit you must want it bad so why give up?

I could not return it because I already upgraded the unit. I waited 45 days with the upgrade to see if it has any problems and on the 46 days one day after the upgrade I had the HDMI blackout (which I fixed myself). Actually I probably could have restored to the original disc and pretend I never opened it but I had so much set up/upgrade done.

EDIT: Also if you trust the poll above only 2% has multiple boxes failed. By the way if you have a bad unit do not wait for the 2 weeks to report it in the poll. That waiting period is only to state your unit is good.


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *With respect, I really don't understand the "all or nothing" philosophy. Sure, it would be nice if so many of these units did not have the HDMI trouble, but what's the big deal? My HDMI was bad and D* exchanged it for one that works. If this one goes bad I can exchange it again or just wait, since I seem to get slightly better PQ with component anyway. Why would I want to give up the fabulous ability to record HD over a minor inconvenience? *


While I think like you, I do UNDERSTAND the mindset. If this were a $50 item and had some glitches in it, people could live with it. But, the fact is that if you took a poll, I bet a lot of people on this thread spent as much or more on this than they did on their HT Receiver! This is a big chunk for most people to spend on an electronic component, much less on one that works as promised about 75% of the time! Just ask our wives!

But, the flip side I ask myself is this . . . if this first iteration of the HD TIVO box had been released WITHOUT HDMI, would I have bought it? My answer was yes. But, that didn't stop me from returning the broken one for a fully functioning one.

By the way, I got the replacment yesterday, HDMI works and yes, there is an improvement in picture quality on HDMI over Component. I can only guess that those reporting equal or better video on Component have TV's which do a worse job of converting the digital signal than the integrated TIVO converter. The SONY GrandWEGA comes to LIFE with the HDMI/DVI plugged in! Man, this was what made it worth $1,000 and all the aggrevation!!! Yes Virginia, DVI IS better!

Now, excuse me while I resume my chanting . . .

"My TIVO will not break," "My TIVO will not break," "My TIVO will not break," "My TIVO . . . . . . . . . .

Oh yes, I should mention that I think I found the solution. I bought the xtended wty on the replacment. CIrcuit City charged $89 for 5 years, thus the total cost of the new now indestructible unit is $1,088. Not that bad considering that they replace in home guaranteed in 7 days and you don't return the old til the new arrives!

Now, back to my chanting . . .


----------



## Slardybardfast

_____________________________________________________
With respect, I really don't understand the "all or nothing" philosophy. Sure, it would be nice if so many of these units did not have the HDMI trouble, but what's the big deal? My HDMI was bad and D* exchanged it for one that works. If this one goes bad I can exchange it again or just wait, since I seem to get slightly better PQ with component anyway. Why would I want to give up the fabulous ability to record HD over a minor inconvenience?
_________________________________________________________

What can one think of a complex, multi-functional Hughes product with such a poor reliability record? I know what I am thinking. What is going to go bad next? When I had the HR10-250 for a 2-day period, not only did the HDMI not work out-of-the-box, but I had a connector failure also. When I removed one of the composite RCA cables, the entire cylindrical metal ground conductor pulled out of the chassis. I was able to push it back in place, but this is not the quality that I expect of an item costing a grand +. 

If you want to pay DirecTV a monthly fee to backup the reliability, then go ahead. Every time you get a replacement for a defective unit, you lose the use for 1 to 2 weeks. You lose your Tivo saved programs, all settings, etc. If you think this is fun, then get a Hughes HR10-250 quick, so the fun can begin.


----------



## robnalex

> _Originally posted by Slardybardfast _
> *
> What can one think of a complex, multi-functional Hughes product with such a poor reliability record? I know what I am thinking. What is going to go bad next? When I had the HR10-250 for a 2-day period, not only did the HDMI not work out-of-the-box, but I had a connector failure also. When I removed one of the composite RCA cables, the entire cylindrical metal ground conductor pulled out of the chassis. I was able to push it back in place, but this is not the quality that I expect of an item costing a grand +.
> 
> If you want to pay DirecTV a monthly fee to backup the reliability, then go ahead. Every time you get a replacement for a defective unit, you lose the use for 1 to 2 weeks. You lose your Tivo saved programs, all settings, etc. If you think this is fun, then get a Hughes HR10-250 quick, so the fun can begin. *


 No question- I wish the thing were better built (I too had one of the connectors come out), but where else am I going to get a HD DirecTiVo receiver right now?

As for replacement, I have the 5-year CC plan also, and can replace it as often as necessary at no cost to me. The question is: Do I want to sit and pout about the quality of the unit and do without until something better is available? No way! With the exception of the HDMI failure (which is of little consequence, since I can use component), both units have performed to my complete satisfaction and I am delighted to have one. It is by far and away my most treasured electronic toy!


----------



## Larry Chanin

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *With respect, I really don't understand the "all or nothing" philosophy. Sure, it would be nice if so many of these units did not have the HDMI trouble, but what's the big deal? My HDMI was bad and D* exchanged it for one that works. If this one goes bad I can exchange it again or just wait, since I seem to get slightly better PQ with component anyway. Why would I want to give up the fabulous ability to record HD over a minor inconvenience? *


Hi Rob,

Many of us are early adopters and are used to a degree of early bugs. However, your comments seem to assume that the problems with the HD TiVo are confined strictly to the HDMI problem. From what I can tell from my own experience and from reading the experiences of the on-line TiVo community, is that the Hughes devices suffer from fundamental hardware quality issues throughout.

I had my first TiVo, an HD TiVo, for two days. I was greatly impressed with the picture quality on the HDMI/DVI connection. I was quickly becoming addicted to the "TiVo Experience", then after two days it died. No, not just the HDMI connection, everything. It won't boot up, and I'm not alone.

In stark contrast to the Hughes TiVo, as an early adopter, I purchased RCA's first HD satellite/OTA receiver. This receiver had it's expected early bugs, but they were all firmware related. In addition RCA was responsive in listening to the on-line community and not only quickly corrected the problems with automatic download updates, but incorporated some very helpful useability improvements as well.

The early consumer voting is coming in on this and other on-line forums and by all accounts Hughes doesn't seem to be coming anywhere near RCA in aggressively addressing very serious overall quality problems with their device.

Larry


----------



## mole

> _Originally posted by lonestar2 _
> *First HD DVR HDMI to DVI didn't work. Replaced by Directv and the connection works great except for the very bottom row on my Sammy 61" DLP not filling in. It instead has numerous rectangular boxes reflecting the picture. It's almost like a computer monitor that needs shifting down, but there is no shifting capability per Samsung rep. Any suggestions? Component fills entire screen perfectly, and even looks better than the DVI in some cases. *


I have the Sammy 56" DLP and had the same problem at the top of the screen with one of my OTA channels. I recorded the test pattern from HDNet and sure enough, the picture wasn't centered. Local Sammy authorized repair was able to center the picture just fine and it was covered under the original warranty. I would guess the 61" should have the same capability.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by grafals _
> *While I think like you, I do UNDERSTAND the mindset. If this were a $50 item and had some glitches in it, people could live with it. But, the fact is that if you took a poll, I bet a lot of people on this thread spent as much or more on this than they did on their HT Receiver! This is a big chunk for most people to spend on an electronic component, much less on one that works as promised about 75% of the time! Just ask our wives!
> 
> But, the flip side I ask myself is this . . . if this first iteration of the HD TIVO box had been released WITHOUT HDMI, would I have bought it? My answer was yes. But, that didn't stop me from returning the broken one for a fully functioning one.
> 
> By the way, I got the replacment yesterday, HDMI works and yes, there is an improvement in picture quality on HDMI over Component. I can only guess that those reporting equal or better video on Component have TV's which do a worse job of converting the digital signal than the integrated TIVO converter. The SONY GrandWEGA comes to LIFE with the HDMI/DVI plugged in! Man, this was what made it worth $1,000 and all the aggrevation!!! Yes Virginia, DVI IS better!
> 
> Now, excuse me while I resume my chanting . . .
> 
> "My TIVO will not break," "My TIVO will not break," "My TIVO will not break," "My TIVO . . . . . . . . . .
> 
> Oh yes, I should mention that I think I found the solution. I bought the xtended wty on the replacment. CIrcuit City charged $89 for 5 years, thus the total cost of the new now indestructible unit is $1,088. Not that bad considering that they replace in home guaranteed in 7 days and you don't return the old til the new arrives!
> 
> Now, back to my chanting . . . *


 That's not what I ment. I agree that this is a very expensive machine and people rightfully so expect that it works all the time (let's put the early adapter argument aside). It is a tremendes hassle to set all the config up again and losing recordings are unexpectable. What I ment is that $1,000 is a lot of money for 95% of the people to buy this unit. Therefore they must want this unit really badly. In fact most of us where waiting for years for this to come out. In that respect why would you give up your dream machine (we all agree that there is nothing quite like it in todays market) just because there is a small chance that you need to repeat the CSR ordial and the re-setup (lose recordings) one (or more times). If you are afreaid that it will go wrong after the 90 days just by the warranty from D* and you are covered for life. I am pissed of at all this ordeal and I am definitely angree that I payed $1,000 for a piece of equipment that I need to patch up but I would not give it up even if I would need to return 10 units and set it up 10 times (I would start to record everything on my SD box too though). On the conrary I can't wait for the price to dropp to $600 so I can afford another 63 hours unit.

I have a Sony KE42XBR910 Plasma (I wish Sony would have made the HD TiVo as I am sure none of us would have these issues) and I like the output of the DVI much better than the Component but I do agree with your assesment and I would have bought the TiVo even if it would only have Component outs. Besides the small quality difference what really bugs me with my component output is that it is way darker than the DVI. I know I could change the settings on the TV but than all others (like SD TiVo) would be too bright.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by Larry Chanin _
> *Hi Rob,
> 
> Many of us are early adopters and are used to a degree of early bugs. However, your comments seem to assume that the problems with the HD TiVo are confined strictly to the HDMI problem. From what I can tell from my own experience and from reading the experiences of the on-line TiVo community, is that the Hughes devices suffer from fundamental hardware quality issues throughout.
> 
> I had my first TiVo, an HD TiVo, for two days. I was greatly impressed with the picture quality on the HDMI/DVI connection. I was quickly becoming addicted to the "TiVo Experience", then after two days it died. No, not just the HDMI connection, everything. It won't boot up, and I'm not alone.
> 
> In stark contrast to the Hughes TiVo, as an early adopter, I purchased RCA's first HD satellite/OTA receiver. This receiver had it's expected early bugs, but they were all firmware related. In addition RCA was responsive in listening to the on-line community and not only quickly corrected the problems with automatic download updates, but incorporated some very helpful useability improvements as well.
> 
> The early consumer voting is coming in on this and other on-line forums and by all accounts Hughes doesn't seem to be coming anywhere near RCA in aggressively addressing very serious overall quality problems with their device.
> 
> Larry *


 Larry,
you are right about that. There are way too many problems and D* is horrible in recognizing or even admitting them (good in replacing the units though once you pass the CSR's ). Every time another member calls in with the same problem it is always an issue they never heared about. D* customer support went downhill ever since they took over the support from TiVo years ago. Why are they so slow on putting out upgrades is beyond me. The Standalone TiVo's never go wrong because by the time you notice it a quarterly upgrade already fixed it. Why can't D* release 4.0 or at least acknowledge and communicate the root of the common problems we have?


----------



## robnalex

I repeat, with the exception of the hdmi failure, both units I've used performed beautifully and met all my expectations. The box does exactly and reliably what I want it to do. I'm delighted to have one. Someday, when a better unit is available I will buy one.


----------



## Larry Chanin

> _Originally posted by pbolya _
> *Larry,
> you are right about that. There are way too many problems and D* is horrible in recognizing or even admitting them (good in replacing the units though once you pass the CSR's ). Every time another member calls in with the same problem it is always an issue they never heared about. D* customer support went downhill ever since they took over the support from TiVo years ago. Why are they so slow on putting out upgrades is beyond me. The Standalone TiVo's never go wrong because by the time you notice it a quarterly upgrade already fixed it. Why can't D* release 4.0 or at least acknowledge and communicate the root of the common problems we have? *


Hi pbolya,

I got a little taste of DIRECTV " technical service" and decided to try my retailer for a quick replacement. They responded quickly, said they were out but should get some this week. I can only hope.

As I was saying there's a big difference between software problems and hardware problems. So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Hughes to fix things as quickly as RCA did.

You are absolutely right that DIRECTV should take a much more active role in communicating with their customers. It would save them money in the long run.

Larry


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## grafals

Maybe the problem is obvious. Everyone agrees that if Sony built this unit, it would be virtually problem free. Just who are these Hughes people?! What products do they make that we depend on? Satellites you say? Well, I say, so what? Look at all the Satellites that blow up on the launch pad! Satellites work in the cold, quite vacuum of space. Has a 2 year old ever tried to stuff a peanut butter sandwich in a Satellite? I think not! What business do these clowns have trying to make a serious piece of consumer electronics for use in consumer homes?! Give me a Sony, or Toshiba, or Onkyo. Are we buying a $1,000 electronic component equivalent of the Packard? Is this the greates scam in history for an electronics manufacturer? If KLH sold a set of speakers for $1,000 would you buy them? Have the people who brought us Packard Bell computers, secretly opened up shop under a new name making aerospace technology and DVR's? These are the great mysteries that haunt this this thread! 

On the more serious side, I'm not totally convinced that it's not a software or firmware glitch. I read the threads about brackets touching. But still nobody has said that they fixed the DOA anomaly by adjusting the card have they? 

Is there something that makes us believe this won't be fixed with a patch in the not so distant future?

My solution remains to buy the warranty and let Circuit City fight my battle for me. When they get burned enough on these units, THEY will take up the charge with Hughes.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by grafals _
> *Maybe the problem is obvious. Everyone agrees that if Sony built this unit, it would be virtually problem free. Just who are these Hughes people?! What products do they make that we depend on? Satellites you say? Well, I say, so what? Look at all the Satellites that blow up on the launch pad! Satellites work in the cold, quite vacuum of space. Has a 2 year old ever tried to stuff a peanut butter sandwich in a Satellite? I think not! What business do these clowns have trying to make a serious piece of consumer electronics for use in consumer homes?! Give me a Sony, or Toshiba, or Onkyo. Are we buying a $1,000 electronic component equivalent of the Packard? Is this the greates scam in history for an electronics manufacturer? If KLH sold a set of speakers for $1,000 would you buy them? Have the people who brought us Packard Bell computers, secretly opened up shop under a new name making aerospace technology and DVR's? These are the great mysteries that haunt this this thread!
> 
> On the more serious side, I'm not totally convinced that it's not a software or firmware glitch. I read the threads about brackets touching. But still nobody has said that they fixed the DOA anomaly by adjusting the card have they?
> 
> Is there something that makes us believe this won't be fixed with a patch in the not so distant future?
> 
> My solution remains to buy the warranty and let Circuit City fight my battle for me. When they get burned enough on these units, THEY will take up the charge with Hughes. *


 It is a hardware issue. I bet if you stick a plastic piece between the pin and the HDMI card most of those would be fixed. I know mine and at least 5 other people who have followed my ways and gambled with $1,000 has fixed there units. It is not clear at this point weather it is a separation of the pin and card or the actual fact that the plastic piece pushes the HDMI card ever so slightly toward the back but it definitely fixes the issue. By the way the negative kind of discoloration happens when the card is pushed downward. It is definitely a hardware issue. Maybe they didn't factor in the 10G or the presence of air (or smog in most cases). I just wish my HD TiVo would be Sony just like My DirectTiVo and my Standalone TiVo.


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## vonzoog

pbolya,

I have a Sony SAT-T60 that I did a hard drive replacement on. I got the hard drive from Weeknees. The replacement was simple to do. The SAT-T60 had a "warranty" seal on the back of the unit that voided the unit if broken. This was of no issue to me since the unit was over 3 years old at the time.

My question to you is this. I don't seem to have a "warranty" seal on the HD10-250 unit. If I open this unit is there some kind of hidden seal? In other words, can they tell that the unit has been open, thus voiding the warranty? Is this a simple repair? I saw your pictures and someone else's pictures that were put on this thread.

My "snow" picture returned again this morning and was fixed by doing a "power unplugged" reboot again. This is happening every 24 hours now. D* has been notified and I am up to level 3 tech support and waiting on a return phone call from them.

Should I get them to replace the unit and hope that the replacement unit is "ok", which I have a bad feeling will be the same way? Or should I try my own repair? Are you that convince you have totally solved the HDMI problem.

Just like to hear any honest opinion.

Thanks,

vonzoog


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## mfleming

> _Originally posted by vonzoog _
> *pbolya,
> 
> I have a Sony SAT-T60 that I did a hard drive replacement on. I got the hard drive from Weeknees. The replacement was simple to do. The SAT-T60 had a "warranty" seal on the back of the unit that voided the unit if broken. This was of no issue to me since the unit was over 3 years old at the time.
> 
> My question to you is this. I don't seem to have a "warranty" seal on the HD10-250 unit. If I open this unit is there some kind of hidden seal? In other words, can they tell that the unit has been open, thus voiding the warranty? Is this a simple repair? I saw your pictures and someone else's pictures that were put on this thread.
> 
> My "snow" picture returned again this morning and was fixed by doing a "power unplugged" reboot again. This is happening every 24 hours now. D* has been notified and I am up to level 3 tech support and waiting on a return phone call from them.
> 
> Should I get them to replace the unit and hope that the replacement unit is "ok", which I have a bad feeling will be the same way? Or should I try my own repair? Are you that convince you have totally solved the HDMI problem.
> 
> Just like to hear any honest opinion.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> vonzoog *


Relatedly, do the Weaknees HR-10 products have the HDMI problem? Since they open them up to upgrade the hard drive, are they also fixing this problem as suggested in this thread (if it really works)?


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## Slardybardfast

I opened my HR 10-250 before returning it to CC. I searched for seals and could not find any. I thought it unusual that there were none.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by vonzoog _
> *pbolya,
> 
> I have a Sony SAT-T60 that I did a hard drive replacement on. I got the hard drive from Weeknees. The replacement was simple to do. The SAT-T60 had a "warranty" seal on the back of the unit that voided the unit if broken. This was of no issue to me since the unit was over 3 years old at the time.
> 
> My question to you is this. I don't seem to have a "warranty" seal on the HD10-250 unit. If I open this unit is there some kind of hidden seal? In other words, can they tell that the unit has been open, thus voiding the warranty? Is this a simple repair? I saw your pictures and someone else's pictures that were put on this thread.
> 
> My "snow" picture returned again this morning and was fixed by doing a "power unplugged" reboot again. This is happening every 24 hours now. D* has been notified and I am up to level 3 tech support and waiting on a return phone call from them.
> 
> Should I get them to replace the unit and hope that the replacement unit is "ok", which I have a bad feeling will be the same way? Or should I try my own repair? Are you that convince you have totally solved the HDMI problem.
> 
> Just like to hear any honest opinion.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> vonzoog *


 Vonzoog,
honestly if you already at level 3 and you do not mind setting it up again and losing the recordings I would have them replace it. Contrary to popular belief not every one of them has this problem (yet). There is no guaranty that my "dirty" fix will work with every box and there is no way of telling if it will stop working after a while (not o mention the chance to electrocute yourself or cause more damage to your TiVo. Now that I am done with the disclaimer sort of things I have to tell you that there is no seal that will be broken if you open your TiVo and as far as I can see the only way for them to tell if you scrape the screws holding the cover of the TiVo (unless if you hit the inside repeatedly with a hammer). I used the proper tools and took the cover off 4 times already (who's counting) and I can not see a difference on the screws. On the other hand if you are the adventures type and you try to fix it (maybe still return it regardless of the outcome) we can see if this works for all TiVo's even the ones that has never been open before the problem. Right now the only people did this fix is the ones already opened the case due to an upgrade and for all we know the fix worked for us because the problem was resulting from hitting something while installing the bracket. I doubt it dough as I had signs of HDMI acting up before I did the upgrade (I thought it was normal to display gray screen when it wakes up until I change the channel or 2 seconds snow when I start to play a recordings). Even though every now and than I still get the 2 seconds snow before it starts playing a recording from the now playing list (which does not bother me much) knock on wood I had no problem with the HDMI picture ever since I installed the plastic piece.

Regards,
Peter


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> *Relatedly, do the Weaknees HR-10 products have the HDMI problem? Since they open them up to upgrade the hard drive, are they also fixing this problem as suggested in this thread (if it really works)? *


 I love to hear from Weaknees and PTV Upgrade or people using the TiVo's they upgraded if they experienced this problem but I doubt that they would ever do this sort of fix. They are more professional than that. This fix is a"poor mens" solution. They are not even upgrading a unit that has issues and doubt that they even using HDMI.


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## vonzoog

Thanks pbolya,

My wife has already told me that no matter what happens, we paid $1K for it and it better d***well work. I am going to push for the replacement. Mean while I may take a look under the hood to see if your modification works.

Thanks again for all of your information and pictures. You seem to be actually on to a real solution for a fix (the HMDI board being out of position or loose). All of the other theories may be correct, however, at this time no one can say that any of them are right. 

Later,

vonzoog


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## bxs122

> _Originally posted by jdpack _
> *Mine had a deteriorated picture on the HDMI output right out of the box. I was searching around for some HDMI compatibility setting on my TV. I have a Mitsubishi WS-65313. I was using the DVI input from a Samsung receiver up until I installed the TiVo. On one hand I am glad to hear this is a known problem, on the other hand what is it going to take to get it fixed. *


Mine has been on for less than an hour and HDMI worked for five minutes before going out. I am very upset by this, particularly after waiting 6 weeks and spending 1000++.


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## bresslerz

I finally got my HR10-250 after 5 weeks of waiting and the HDMI output did not work out of the box. 

I plugged it into to my brand new 53 inch HDTV and the screen was very dark, with some barely noticeable colors.

I switched to component and it works fine.

Would DirecTV send me a new one and then I can send this one back or do they force me to be without a receiver for a while?


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## lonestar2

They sent me a replacement very promptly and you put the old one in the shipping box. The new one worked for the HDMI to DVI connection


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## robnalex

I'm noticing faint horizontal lines and pixel "blotches" (for lack of a better term) on black backgrounds when using hdmi/dvi. When I switch to component these issues are gone.


----------



## bxs122

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *I'm noticing faint horizontal lines and pixel "blotches" (for lack of a better term) on black backgrounds when using hdmi/dvi. When I switch to component these issues are gone. *


Are you seeing this only on std broadcast and the tivo menus? Or are you also seeing this on HD content as well?


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## robnalex

HD content.


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by bresslerz _
> *I finally got my HR10-250 after 5 weeks of waiting and the HDMI output did not work out of the box.
> 
> I plugged it into to my brand new 53 inch HDTV and the screen was very dark, with some barely noticeable colors.
> 
> I switched to component and it works fine.
> 
> Would DirecTV send me a new one and then I can send this one back or do they force me to be without a receiver for a while? *


 bresslerz, 
D* would send a replacement first and let you return the bad one afterwords but only if it brakes after 30 days. Since yours where bad out of the box you have to return it to the retailer you are bought it from for a replacement. Wether they require you to be without the box for a while (most likely) or not is up to them. Unless of course you wait a month and tell D* that it is just broke after the 30 days.


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## Chris Gerhard

The HDMI failure rate is certainly a big problem. As of this date 2/7s of the people using HDMI are reporting a failure within a few weeks. I have no idea how many of the failures are not related to a bad TiVo but are a result of bad cables, bad DVI or HDMI input on the monitor, or incorrect test of the connection. I also can't guess how many of the 5/7s that don't have a problem will develop one soon. I am in the 5/7s without problems and there is no sign at this early stage anything is wrong with mine but with 29% reported failure rate this soon, I would not be surprised if a problem shows up in the future. I would guess the chances are if no problem is evident in a few weeks, no problem will ever occur but only time will tell.

Chris


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## robnalex

There is probably also a small percentage of users who are wrongly assuming that their unit is DOA because the unit is initially set to an output resolution such as 480i that their display will not accept. In this case, one has to switch to component (or s-video or composite), complete the setup (don't have to activate) and then test the hdmi/dvi with different resolution outputs from the HR10-250 before pronouncing the unit DOA.


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by Chris Gerhard _
> *The HDMI failure rate is certainly a big problem. As of this date 2/7s of the people using HDMI are reporting a failure within a few weeks. I have no idea how many of the failures are not related to a bad TiVo but are a result of bad cables, bad DVI or HDMI input on the monitor, or incorrect test of the connection. I also can't guess how many of the 5/7s that don't have a problem will develop one soon. I am in the 5/7s without problems and there is no sign at this early stage anything is wrong with mine but with 29% reported failure rate this soon, I would not be surprised if a problem shows up in the future. I would guess the chances are if no problem is evident in a few weeks, no problem will ever occur but only time will tell.
> 
> Chris *


 Chris,
not quite true. Mine went dead about 45 days into it. Of course I have to mention that I did an upgrade 24h before it died so it might have been nocked out of place a little bit during the upgrade. However I was able to fix it with inserting a plastic piece between the HDMI card and a pin. I guess it pushes the card back in line. Other people reported that there's went numb after 30 days without ever opening the case. I do not want to cause a panic though. it is definately a problem but I guess we all have 90 days before the warranty runs out and if you think it is a problem you can always buy the warranty from D* for an excellent service for only a couple of bucks a month. They may not know how to build a working unit but they sure got the replacement procedure perfected.


----------



## Chris Gerhard

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *There is probably also a small percentage of users who are wrongly assuming that their unit is DOA because the unit is initially set to an output resolution such as 480i that their display will not accept. In this case, one has to switch to component (or s-video or composite), complete the setup (don't have to activate) and then test the hdmi/dvi with different resolution outputs from the HR10-250 before pronouncing the unit DOA. *


Yes, that is exactly what I meant by an incorrect test.

Chris


----------



## mfleming

I had returned mine to CC a month ago. I swore I'd wait until I know they are all fixed, but I'm getting ansy! Got my new HD TV and want to utilize it!!! So, if I were to go and purchase another one now, considering I've got a good chance I'll have to return it, where would everyone suggest I buy it? Someone who will continue to replace them without a hassle, and someone who will send me the new one before I have to send the old one back. DTV?

Thanks.


----------



## Rcam10

Yes, back in April I posted that by putting pressure on that card, in just the right way, I was able to keep it on. I had read where a few people claim putting hard pressure on top of the unit brought it back on for a second or two, so that certainly sounded like a connection problem. 

So, as someone that works on electronics, of course I had no problem going into the unit, and found out in mine the HDMI board was extremely sensitive to any motion. I even removed the main board that it plugs into, and soldered a few points just for the heck of it. 

I also twisted the HDMI board in all kinds of ways, driving my PJ crazy because the signal went from off, on, green, negative, snow ect. constantly, as I moved it around. 

Yeah, found a perfect spot after awhile, and was able to use it until I got CC got more in stock. But its my opinion that you will be lucky if it doesn't return. I played with that area over about a week, and thats a really sensitive connection problem. 

Also, thats the type of thing that rarely stays fixed, by doing such stuff. Another thing is that most likely if it gets jarred much at all, it will probably start back up, and the next time pressure in the same spot won't keep it on. Well, thats what I've found to be true anyway. Its going to vary from unit to unit also of course. 

It seems to me, having that type of plug in socket is just asking for trouble.


----------



## ChromeAce

I just voted in the poll this morning that I have had NO PROBLEMS with my unit, which was bought on Ebay for $1200 and upgraded with a PTV kit with a 2nd hard drive (250GB) giving me about 70 total hours of HD recording capacity. I enjoyed TWO MONTHS of defect-free HD TiVO use on this unit. I view HDMI out on my Sony VPL-HS20 which has HDMI in. However I had NOT REBOOTED IT this entire time and NOT MOVED IT. I think this is a key clue to what is going wrong.

After I voted in the poll this morning, I decided to re-arrange my system a little and while keeping the HR10-250 on, moved it carefully off the stack, added a DVD player to the stack, and moved the HR10-250 back on top of the stack.

The **** hit the fan.

First, I had no audio coming out of the digital audio port. I could get my usual picture on HDMI. To fix the audio, I decided to reboot.

When I rebooted, I got the startup screen "almost there" over HDMI. Then I got the skittles balls, but there was a slight green tint to the text, as if the skittles had been sitting on the shelf awhile...

Then all of a sudden I get a frame full of static, then black, then static... repeating forever.

I unplug and reboot again, and this time no HDMI at all. I go into the menus using the s-video output and try turning on HDMI but get nothing. I reconnect the HDMI cable and nothing.

Simply by MOVING IT or REBOOTING IT or BOTH... I have screwed up my HDMI. 

Apparently, it is a very sensitive little card. Motion can mess it up. Heat probably messes it up, which would explain why it goes bad for some people over time.

My PTV upgrade kit did not come with a fan, but it was running fine with 2 hard drives for 2 months. Didn't seem hot really.

So now I guess I will open it up and wedge some metal against the card to see if I can stabilize its connection to the motherboard.

If I can't, I'll try to get DTV to replace my unit. I hope the fact that I bought it on Ebay has no bearing. And I assume I can't transplant my modded drives into a replacement unit as the content is tied to the motherboard isn't it? How do I transplant the upgrade?

What a nightmare...


----------



## Todd76

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *There is probably also a small percentage of users who are wrongly assuming that their unit is DOA because the unit is initially set to an output resolution such as 480i that their display will not accept. *


I would think that any TV with a DVI or HDMI input would accept all four resolutions.


----------



## paul01463

> _Originally posted by Todd76 _
> *I would think that any TV with a DVI or HDMI input would accept all four resolutions. *


My Panasonic plasma only accepts 480i and 1080i on its HDMI interface


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by paul01463 _
> *My Panasonic plasma only accepts 480i and 1080i on its HDMI interface *


 Lots of HD TV displays do not accept 480i over HDMI and some TV's oly accept 720p or 1080i but not both. My Sony plasma accepts all 4 resulutions.


----------



## jlas75

HDMI video is NOT working on my DirecTV HR10-250 DirecTV with TiVo...Sysytem information says it's "not connected"...

Component video works. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Or, do I have to return it for a new one? Please advise....


----------



## erehm

I received an HD Tivo from Circuit City (CC) a couple of months ago. It's connected as follows:

CONFIGURATION...

[HD Tivo HDMI Output]-->[Scaler DVI-HDCP I/O]-->[PIONEER Plasma PDA-5002 DVI (no HDCP) input]

Almost immediately, the HDMI output would cut out every 1-3 days. The channel that I left the receiver on was somewhat random, e.g., HDNET, HDNET Movies, HBOH, HBO (SD), SciFi, etc. I never watched a PPV event. (It's my understanding that only DirecTV PPV events invoke HDCP....am I wrong?)

SYMPTOMS...

 The HDMI output would cut out, i.e., either a black or snow picture. 
 Usually the digital audio would still be active. 
 Commands via the remote control would work for 10-20 key presses and then be non-functional. 
 The Format button on the front panel was non-functional.
[/list=1]
TEMPORARY FIX...

I would power cycle the box (either by yanking the power cord or cycling the master switch on my power conditioner). It always came back...

*..until one day it didn't, i.e., the HDMI output was no longer functional. I looked at the Status screen and it said "HDMI Status: HDCP Disabled".*

REPLACEMENT HAS SAME SYMPTOMS...

I called DirecTV and got a replacement. Less than 3 hours later, same problem. The screen had turned to snow. Power cycle again fixed the problem.

DIAGNOSIS?

*So do I have the HDMI failure problem? Or is this the expected behavior of a system where the DVI display is not HDCP capable?* I.e., after so many HDCP "transgressions", the HDMI port turns itself off?


----------



## ChromeAce

My running theory is that all the HDMI cards, manufactured by Hughes, are defective and should be recalled immediately and replaced.

From the accounts so far and my own experience, I believe the defects can remain dormant indefinitely until the card is slightly disturbed by:

1. motion
2. heat
3. vibration
4. changes in HDCP status in program content
5. changing display output resolution
6. solar activity
7. moon phases
8. butterfly sneezes

Obviously it is completely unacceptable. I think we deserve to hear from DirecTV on whether or not

1. they admit to the problem
2. they have found the cause
3. they have a solution
4. how they plan on implementing the solution

I wouldn't even know where to start a campaign for this kind of thing but since most HR10-250 users are here, this may be a good place to organize a demand for action.


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by SonyPlanet _
> *Obviously it is completely unacceptable. I think we deserve to hear from DirecTV on whether or not
> 
> 1. they admit to the problem
> 2. they have found the cause
> 3. they have a solution
> 4. how they plan on implementing the solution
> 
> I wouldn't even know where to start a campaign for this kind of thing but since most HR10-250 users are here, this may be a good place to organize a demand for action. *


I have to think that DTV is extremely sensitive to the problem at some level since every unit that goes back to CC or some other retailer and every unit that they replace directly is money out of their pockets. If someone hasn't gone into their returns whse and noticed a large stack of returned $1,000 units, I'd be mightily surprised. And, I suspect that as the problem becomes more known w/out a resolution, the probability grows that a Samsung, or RCA unit will come out and clean their clock soon. Of course, no matter who produces it, Hughes will get revenue from the licensing. But be that as it may, they can't help but be getting notice in the only place that gets their attention, their wallet.

I doubt you will EVER get an admission or acknowledgment of the problem. To do so would put them on the hook to repair/replace EVERY unit, defective or not. You will probably see a quiet fading of the problem as new units come out that don't continue to report the problem. That way, the people not using HDMI and those not experiencing the problem won't have claims against them, until enough time passes that the claim is cut off by the warranty expiration.

I doubt that most HR10-250 users are here. Despite short supply, there are many thousands in the market place now. I would bet that for every 3 or 4 posts to this thread reporting a problem and a return to DTV, there is at least one person with the problem who is content to switch to Component and live with it, not knowing that this thread or the problem exists on a regular basis. Based on what I'm reading, I can't imagine that failure rates could be less than 50%. The problem is too consistent. If there is a mfg or design defect, and the mfg process is the least bit controlled, then one would expect every unit shipped to have a similar problem at one stage or another.

The fix for DTV is going to be VERY costly. If you want to make trouble for them, don't call DTV, call the rating agencies that track Hughes stock/debt and point out that Hughes is apt to take it in the shorts for this. Especially if they miss production goals for the upcomming Christmas season, which I'm sure they plan to gear up for.


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> *So, if I were to go and purchase another one now, considering I've got a good chance I'll have to return it, where would everyone suggest I buy it? Someone who will continue to replace them without a hassle, and someone who will send me the new one before I have to send the old one back. DTV? *


I bought the 5 year gty from Circuit City for $89. THey claim that they will ship the replacement in 5 to 7 days, and you don't return the old one until the new one arrives. THey also claim that you can either return to local store or they will pay shipping. Lastly, they point out that if they have to repair/replace 5 times in 12 months, you will get a full replacement with the latest equipment, even if the new equipment is a newer or updated model. Thus, you have kind of a "most current technology" guaranty. I actually "cashed in" on that gty when I bought my 1st big screen about 10 years ago. It was a ProScan floor model I got for 1/2 MSRP. It broke 5 times in about 6 months. So, I got a brand new one that was vastly better than the one I bought. I paid about $2,000 for a brand new $5,000 TV. I had a friend who managed a CC store. His advice, "always buy the wty if it's expensive or new technology. Those usually pay off." He was right in my case. And, this unit is both expensive AND new technology.

If I understand right, the DTV xtended warranty is a monthly payment of a few dollars. It continues as long as you pay, and ends when you quit. So, if its $2/mo, then in 60 months, you would have paid $120. But then again, it would, I believe, cover ALL of your equipment, including the dish and LNB and your other receivers right? On the other hand, if its $3, then the extra $90 would just about pay for a new SD DVR or LNB. Maybe somebody w/ the DTV xtended wty could chime in and provide the specifics for us all in terms of costs, benefits and quality of service. In fact, it might be a useful thread to start for everyone to give xtended wty info from various retailers and DTV.


----------



## grafals

The forum moderator should consider revising the poll to include a category to recant a vote for no failure. So, if I vote no failure after 2 weeks, then it fails in 4, I can let everyone know. Then, you could subtract those votes from the no failure votes for a more accurate count. I'm becomming suspicious that the actual failure rates MUST be much higher than what the poll indicates. Thanks to standardized parts and assembly lines, if 100 have the defect, then it seems logical that 1,000,000 would have the same problem. Otherwise, you'd have to conclude that the mfg process is inconsistent enough that it wouldn't be logical that so many people would experience such similarities in the first place. (Isn't that chaos theory?)

I'd also drop the don't know column because it makes it appear that the failure rate is lower than it is. Since your only testing the HDMI, if the HDMI isn't used or the participant doesn't know, then that column is irrelevant. You only want to know the "works" versus the "don't works", not the I don't knows, right?


----------



## nash0r

Purchase: 08-14 at Ultimate Electronics
Manuf Date: 07-28 in Mexico

HDMI port dead out of the box. Decided to return for money back and wait for an official fix or a different model from other manufacturer. Not worth the crapshoot at this time 

Was using the HDMI->DVI cable with a Samsung DLP TV.


----------



## Slardybardfast

After being very upset with the DOA performance of the Hughes HR10-250, I returned it to CC for a refund; promising myself that I would not purchase another unit until the problem was fixed. 

I could not keep my word. I ordered another unit from CC online and I just installed it. Guess what? No HDMI output. Again, tech support could not help me. 

Varying the resolution does not matter. No output at any resolution.

This really sucks.

OK, I see some posts regarding reseating the daughter card or wedging a piece of plastic some where. I have not seen any details of this or pics. Could someone please give me details on how to remove the card and reseat it.

Thanks


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by Slardybardfast _
> *After being very upset with the DOA performance of the Hughes HR10-250, I returned it to CC for a refund; promising myself that I would not purchase another unit until the problem was fixed.
> 
> I could not keep my word. I ordered another unit from CC online and I just installed it. Guess what? No HDMI output. Again, tech support could not help me.
> 
> Varying the resolution does not matter. No output at any resolution.
> 
> This really sucks.
> 
> OK, I see some posts regarding reseating the daughter card or wedging a piece of plastic some where. I have not seen any details of this or pics. Could someone please give me details on how to remove the card and reseat it.
> 
> Thanks *


 Do not remove the card in fact do not even touch it. There is a metal pin right next to the card. make sure that it does not touch the card by wedging a separator in between them. Do not make it too tight. You do not wan tot break that pin. Also make sure you are calm and grounded (do not do it right after you talked to a CSR). If it works give us your picture (both before and after). This is my original story with pictures (almost a month now and still works):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2113154#post2113154

Of course it might have been that I bumped the card during the upgrade to 63 hours and that is why it went dead and your "virgin" TiVo(s) have another problem altogether but it is worth a try (just make sure you open it with the proper tools so they can not tell from the screws that you opened it).

I hope it helps.

Regards,
Peter


----------



## TriscuiT

Just bought a JVC HD52Z575 and an HR10-250. The JVC looks beautiful. Hooked up the DTV box via HDMI and things were fine. Set the peanut remote to work the TV volume and power then shut the TV off via the remote to test it. After waiting for the lamp to cool down I turned the TV back on and got SNOW then GREEN then SNOW then GREEN.... You get the idea. HR10-250 made in Mexico with a June build date. Nothing like spending $4500US and not being able to make the pieces work the way they should.


----------



## ChromeAce

I would like to know if ANYONE has duplicated the results of the plastic spacer fix. I suspect it's a freak occurrence that may or may not be related to the inserted spacer at all.

As for DirecTV, I don't know, but I would guess they don't make any money on the boxes. They just use them to sell more subscriptions, their cash cow. The incoming bad boxes won't cost them anywhere near $1000 each. Most likely they will refurbish all of them with new HDMI cards and get them out to selected customers for free in exchange for an HD package upgrade and a 2-year contract commitment.

Clearly they were under the gun to release this new product, which had already been delayed. Now we know why.

Can we get G4/TechTV to interview a PR rep and pressure him with possible negative publicity? Isn't that how these things get fixed quickly? Dateline does it all the time.


----------



## falstaffpac

I have duplicated pbolya's results. I believe pbolya said he knows of 4 others who have had success with this. I wedged a small silver peice between the pin and the daughter card with the pressure point about 7/8 down the length of the card. I've not had a single problem since.


----------



## jlas75

I am now on my second HR10-250....same HDMI problem (No picture!!!). So, I am watching through component video until it is fixed. 

Quick question....Does anyone have Comcast Cable HD and DirecTV HD? If so, which pictures looks better? I found that High Definition in Comcast looks a lot better than HD in DirecTV. Any reason why? Both are hooked up with the same component cables (monster) and set to 1080i. I did a test with the baseball game last night on ESPN...Comcast's picture was noticably better!


----------



## Toeside

I just called in for a replacement. He said it should be here in 2-5 days, but they could be backordered. 

We'll see.

Craig


----------



## erehm

> _Originally posted by erehm _
> SYMPTOMS...
> 
> The HDMI output would cut out, i.e., either a black or snow picture.
> Usually the digital audio would still be active.
> Commands via the remote control would work for 10-20 key presses and then be non-functional.
> The Format button on the front panel was non-functional.
> [/list=1]
> TEMPORARY FIX...
> 
> I would power cycle the box (either by yanking the power cord or cycling the master switch on my power conditioner). It always came back...
> 
> *..until one day it didn't, i.e., the HDMI output was no longer functional. I looked at the Status screen and it said "HDMI Status: HDCP Disabled".*
> 
> [/B]





Sorry to be pushy, but does anyone else have any symptoms like this, i.e., HDMI output stops working periodically but a power-cycle clears it up (at least for a while)?

/eric


----------



## ChromeAce

> _Originally posted by jlas75 _
> *
> Quick question....Does anyone have Comcast Cable HD and DirecTV HD? If so, which pictures looks better? I found that High Definition in Comcast looks a lot better than HD in DirecTV. Any reason why? Both are hooked up with the same component cables (monster) and set to 1080i. I did a test with the baseball game last night on ESPN...Comcast's picture was noticably better! *


No such thing as a "quick question", especially an off-topic one... but I'll reply anyway...

Good obervation. When comparing the over-the-air NBC HD feed of the Olympics with DirecTV's HD feed, over-the-air is also much better. That's DirecTV compression for ya. I think it varies based on what kind of bandwidth is needed on the other channels at the time.


----------



## ctauber

I just hooked up my new HR10-250 to my new Toshiba 52HM84 last night. It is my first use of the HDMI connection for either piece, although I have used the DVR for 3 weeks without incident. Every time I turn off the tv and turn it back on the picture loses all color except for green & a pinkish purple. Rebooting the DTV/Tivo unit restores the color. This does not happen when using component video cables, only the HDMI. Is this considered a HDMI failure? Has anyone else experienced this?

The Toshiba manual has the following recommendation in reference to HDMI or DVI connections:

1. When turning on your electronic components, turn on the TV first, and then the HDMI or DVI device.
2. When turning off your electronic components, turn off the HDMI or DVI device first, and then the TV.

Is this the source of my problem?
Since the HD DVR doesn't turn off I cannot comply with their recommendation. I just won't reboot every time that I turn on the tv but would like to have HDMI capabilities. Any suggestions?


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by ctauber _
> *I just hooked up my new HR10-250 to my new Toshiba 52HM84 last night. It is my first use of the HDMI connection for either piece, although I have used the DVR for 3 weeks without incident. Every time I turn off the tv and turn it back on the picture loses all color except for green & a pinkish purple. Rebooting the DTV/Tivo unit restores the color. This does not happen when using component video cables, only the HDMI. Is this considered a HDMI failure? Has anyone else experienced this?
> 
> The Toshiba manual has the following recommendation in reference to HDMI or DVI connections:
> 
> 1. When turning on your electronic components, turn on the TV first, and then the HDMI or DVI device.
> 2. When turning off your electronic components, turn off the HDMI or DVI device first, and then the TV.
> 
> Is this the source of my problem?
> Since the HD DVR doesn't turn off I cannot comply with their recommendation. I just won't reboot every time that I turn on the tv but would like to have HDMI capabilities. Any suggestions? *


 Sure it does (turn off). If you have a harmony or MX remote you can have a dedicated button to turn it off (like I do-no macro just streight IR code) or if you use the original peanut use TiVO+Page down to get to Standby and than press select. To turn on you can use either TiVo or Live Tv (some others will also turn it on).


----------



## ctauber

> _Originally posted by pbolya _
> *Sure it does (turn off). If you have a harmony or MX remote you can have a dedicated button to turn it off (like I do-no macro just streight IR code) or if you use the original peanut use TiVO+Page down to get to Standby and than press select. To turn on you can use either TiVo or Live Tv (some others will also turn it on). *


Thanks for the tip. I am a recent convert from Ultimate TV and misunderstood what standby was for. Unfortunately using it did not solve the problem. The picture still comes on green and pink upon restart of the tv. Any ideas?


----------



## Slardybardfast

> _Originally posted by pbolya _
> *Do not remove the card in fact do not even touch it. There is a metal pin right next to the card. make sure that it does not touch the card by wedging a separator in between them. Do not make it too tight. You do not wan tot break that pin. Also make sure you are calm and grounded (do not do it right after you talked to a CSR). If it works give us your picture (both before and after). This is my original story with pictures (almost a month now and still works):
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2113154#post2113154
> 
> Of course it might have been that I bumped the card during the upgrade to 63 hours and that is why it went dead and your "virgin" TiVo(s) have another problem altogether but it is worth a try (just make sure you open it with the proper tools so they can not tell from the screws that you opened it).
> 
> ********************************
> 
> Well, I insulated the copper/brass-spring card-tensioner to no avail. While I was at it, I removed the daughter card and reseated it to no avail.
> 
> So there it is. The second 10-250 DAO.*


----------



## Slardybardfast

> _Originally posted by jlas75 _
> *HDMI video is NOT working on my DirecTV HR10-250 DirecTV with TiVo...Sysytem information says it's "not connected"...
> 
> Component video works. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Or, do I have to return it for a new one? Please advise.... *


******************************************
See my post above. I am on my second 10-250 receiver with a DOA HDMI output .

I could find no mention of any connection status in my system information window. Could you please confirm that you have a report of the 10-250 output status available in one of your menus and which menu location is it?

Thanks


----------



## Toeside

> _Originally posted by Slardybardfast _
> *******************************************
> See my post above. I am on my second 10-250 receiver with a DOA HDMI output .
> 
> I could find no mention of any connection status in my system information window. Could you please confirm that you have a report of the 10-250 output status available in one of your menus and which menu location is it?
> 
> Thanks *


It's in System Information. Same screen that shows Software version, IR code, internal Temp, etc.


----------



## jordanz

Made in Mexico - HDMI produces what looks like only 256 colors or something. Box keeps rebooting too. Component works fine. New box is on its way from DirecTV.


----------



## jbrychka

My HDMI output just died as well. Purchased June 28th.


----------



## cocoon

I received my HR10-250 last night and connected it with the hdmi cable to my Toshiba 46H84. The HR10-250 was made in Mexico July 2004. I'm not sure if my problem is the HDMI failure that this thread is for. I'm not even sure if this post belongs here or AVSforum...


Ok so heres my problem

When switching between Svideo and the HDMI inputs on the TV the HDMI input comes out with the colors wrong blue becomes green and most everything has a purple tint. I can correct the problem by temporality changing the output resolution of the HR10-250. 

Putting the HR10-250 in standy mode does not correct the color problem when i turn on the TV. It just seems like a real pain to have to mess with the resolution mode every time I wach tv. 

So my question is something wrong the Toshiba 46H84 or the HR10-250 or is this as good as it gets with this equipment?

thanks


----------



## jlas75

i don't think it's your tv...i think the hdmi port on the tivo unit is defected. directv / hughes needs to correct this...


----------



## ctauber

> _Originally posted by cocoon _
> *I received my HR10-250 last night and connected it with the hdmi cable to my Toshiba 46H84. The HR10-250 was made in Mexico July 2004. I'm not sure if my problem is the HDMI failure that this thread is for. I'm not even sure if this post belongs here or AVSforum...
> 
> Ok so heres my problem
> 
> When switching between Svideo and the HDMI inputs on the TV the HDMI input comes out with the colors wrong blue becomes green and most everything has a purple tint. I can correct the problem by temporality changing the output resolution of the HR10-250.
> 
> Putting the HR10-250 in standy mode does not correct the color problem when i turn on the TV. It just seems like a real pain to have to mess with the resolution mode every time I wach tv.
> 
> So my question is something wrong the Toshiba 46H84 or the HR10-250 or is this as good as it gets with this equipment?
> 
> thanks *


I have the exact same problem (see post above). Today I received another unit and the HDMI connection did not work at all! I'm starting to feel that I aam lucky to be able to color correct with the res mode.


----------



## mjstonez

Yep, Just got my replacemt receiver and DOA HDMI! I'll wait a few months and then call D* for a replacement under the 1 year/parts waranty. I can live with component! JVC Dila only has one HDMI anyway. I would rather get the DVD to that anyway.....ho hum.

MJ


----------



## ChromeAce

Don't hesitate in returning your defective units! The more DirecTV gets back, the more likely they are to pay attention and stop sending us defective units by solving the HDMI problem.


----------



## cocoon

woohoo! ~maybe~

Called rapid satellite which after being on hold for about 15 minutes transfered me to DirecTV hold time about 30 minutes got transfered to technical support 
spoke to someone named Mike he said the HDMI port was a known issue and they are tracking customers with this issue. He offered me 2 choices get it replaced immediately or be flagged as one of the customers with this issue and they would contact me when they find a solution to this problem. Being impatient and wondering what have i got to lose at this point I opted for them sending a replacement I mean all of the HR10-250 cant be defective can they?

Either this seems like a big improvement on DirecTV's part from saying problem was as an isolated case to now being a "known issue".


----------



## jlas75

that's interesting b/c everytime i call driectv, tech support usually has no idea about the HDMI problem. in general, i think directv phone support / customer service is very weak...

any idea why directv doesn't offer the lifetime TiVo service anymore? i think is cost about $300. i'd rather pay the one time fee than have to pay an extra $5 every month for the TiVo service.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by jlas75 _
> *that's interesting b/c everytime i call driectv, tech support usually has no idea about the HDMI problem. in general, i think directv phone support / customer service is very weak...
> 
> any idea why directv doesn't offer the lifetime TiVo service anymore? i think is cost about $300. i'd rather pay the one time fee than have to pay an extra $5 every month for the TiVo service. *


 When they made the 1st D* boxes TiVo was running the customer service on all boxes and it was great. I bought a lifetime TiVo service then on my SAT-T60. Later D* took over customer support and the support is getting worth every day. They have no idea about anything. I wish I could call TiVo more with my Standalone TiVo as I love TiVo's customer service but this thing never breaks  Now D* is telling me that my lifetime service which I paid $250 is not honored anymore and if I ever lower my subscription from the ~$80 premium package they will charge me the monthly fee  Since I reshuffled a couple of channels in my lineup (and increased the monthly by $2 I might add) they did not want to wave the monthly fee when I activated my HD TiVo. I called 4 times before I got a CSR that accepted the fact that even though I do not have the exact premium package my monthly is actually higher than the premium package. I found that since they are so incogsistent it is much better not to argue but hang up instead and call again untill you get a CSR that is willing to help you..

Long story short they want you to be a high paying customer forever. If they give you a lifetime and you go back to a $40 package or lower they lose a lot of money. This way at least they give you an incentive to stay at a premium package level as you can save up to $20 a month on DVR fees if you have multiple TiVo's. It is much likely that you will pay an extra $20-$30 for all the premium channels than an extra $40. For them it doesn't cost any more for you to have all the channels vs. having just the basic so the higher your monthly bill the better regardless what you are getting in return. If they would give you a lifetime for $300 they might lose $40 a month on some customers which would put them in the red in 8 short month. If you lower your package anyway they still break even in 2 and a 1/2 years.

This is also the reason why they give you free stuff (like subscriptions to HBO/SHOW or even credit to your account) when you buy the HD TiVo. If you are willing to stay at $80/month a $200 credit is only 2 and a 1/2 month subscription. If you can pay $1000 for a new TiVo it is very likely that you can and more importantly willing to pay above $80/month. Not to mention that you might subscribe to the very week HD package for $10.


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## vonzoog

I just got off the phone with D* "Advance Service Department". They seem to be the ones that handle the HD problems. Last week I reported that my HDMI connection was giving me a white snowy screen and could be fixed with a reboot of the system. They told me then that someone would call me back as a follow up. Today I call them to report the same problem and that I have not been called back.

Here is the NEW D* response to this issue. They told me that this issue has been recognized and that a "fix" is in the works at this time. I was told that the fix was going to be handle with a firmware update coming out "soon". They also say (again) that someone would be calling me back to explain what is happening. I told them I will give them a few more days for some sort of response and then I will be calling them back looking for replacement unit. They acted as if this was no problem.

FYI: Interesting that they claim they are aware of the problem and are currently working on a solution. Also that it will be handle by a satellite firmware download. I am sure that I am like the rest of you and don't know what to believe at this point. Just want to get this resolved and move on. Other than this issue, the HR10-250 is excellent in every respect.


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## PRMan

As some of you saw on another thread, I got my HD TiVo and the HDMI port was DOA. It was one of the last 3 at Costa Mesa and the incredibly weak box was 10% smashed (the other two were completely destroyed). 

Knowing I could not get another one quickly and that I was travelling for the week, I just pressed down on the top of the unit (over the HDMI card) and it came on. I have had to do this a couple times now. 

I now realize that when it goes to snow I can just change resolutions and it comes back. Costa Mesa has 30 right now if anyone else needs a replacement.

I am trying to decide if I should just wait past the 30 days for D*'s $7.99 warranty to kick in or whether I should just return it at Costa Mesa. If D* cross-ships it, I could swap the HDD, saving me a lot of time and saving my recordings that I missed while I was gone.


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## ChromeAce

> _Originally posted by PRMan _
> * If D* cross-ships it, I could swap the HDD, saving me a lot of time and saving my recordings that I missed while I was gone. *


Won't work. You cannot transplant hard drives from one DirecTiVo to another without losing all recordings. The recordings are encrypted to only play on the motherboard that created them.

When you transplant your drive, you will be able to run a "clear and delete everything" to setup the drive for use in the new unit.


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## Registered

My original vote was one USA unit with HDMI failure. I've since gone through two more USA units with HDMI failures. Mfr'd June 24, 25 and 28 (Thursday, Friday and Monday). Two were DOA, one gave me a few minutes of 16 color or less images before giving up.

The second one was really bad: the HD Tivo box was warped about a half inch -- would not lay flat on a level surface. Besides no HDMI, there were several bad image lines horizontally at the top of the picture.

When I called D*, I spent an hour on the phone with a CSR (my mistake, should have called Customer Retention Rep). Their thought was a bad cable and told me to buy a cable retail and try that. I balked, as the only cables I'd seen were M* $120 ripoffs. I insisted that D* guarantee to reimburse me the cost and they changed their solution to a service call, saying that the tech will have the HDMI-DVI cables.

I took off work for the morning service window and just before noon, the dispatcher called to say the tech was late. He showed up at 1, with an 8-12 window. He had no HDMI cables, saying D* doesn't provide the techs with those. The tech knew less than me about HDMI and the connections. He spent a lot of time asking me about them and finally concluded that the two HDMI/DVI cables I had were operational. I lost 6-1/2 hours of work for that.

Before I returned my first unit, I tried the fix that pbloya (sp?) offered, to no avail. The reboot route doesn't work either.

I'm going to hold onto the one I have and notify D* Customer Retention of the problem and that I have heard it is a 'known issue' with them and have them send me one when they fix it. Or, if it is indeed a firmware fix downloadable, I'll ask to be told about that. After my experiences with D*, I don't expect at all that they will follow through, so I will watch this thread for news and take care of it from my side.

Thanks to you all for the information.


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## pbolya

From what I seen so far there is two separate issues with the HDMI. One is dead out of the box and nothing you do will change that (firmware issue ??? hard to imagine). The other is that the card is not seated properly or will not seat properly. My method might fix this issue. If you push the top of the unit and the picture goes in and out that is a good sign that you have the formal and you have a chance to fix it. There is of course no guarantee that it will stay fixed but beats the horror of returning several boxes. By the way the only problem I saw ever since I did my fix is that yesterday while I was watching the Olympics suddenly the picture went black for 1 second and the unit rebooted. It really freaked me out but after 5-10 minutes I was back watching from the same point without any problems. Of course I missed 2x10 minutes as both tuner was recording when this happened. This might be there firmware issue they where talking about as a CARD seating issue should not reboot the TiVo (as it did not a moth ago for the entire time I was looking for a solution with the cover off).


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## erehm

> _Originally posted by pbolya _
> *From what I seen so far there is two separate issues with the HDMI. One is dead out of the box and nothing you do will change that (firmware issue ??? hard to imagine). The other is that the card is not seated properly or will not seat properly. *


I believe there is a *third* failure mode with HDMI that has nothing to do with DOA or card seating, namely, the HDMI "fails" periodically (on the order of once per day) and a power-cycle fixes the "failure". I am quoting "fails" and "failure" because the symptoms of this failure mode include a snowy screen (not black), _possible_ audio output and _possible_ (if temporary) remote control.

In my case, this periodic "failure" ended with complete failure.

Please post a reply if you have had this kind of failure. I want to know if I'm alone.

/eric


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## videoholic

My problem now is the screen is all red. Looks horrible. It's been broken since the day I received it on 8/4. Although the symptoms are different now. On day one it looked like I only had 256 colors. Robert from VE was supposed to be working on getting me a new one, but when I called Direct TV today they didn't know anything and told me to call where I got it from, but the first thing they would try is to send me new cables. So I'm stuck until Robert gets back with me.

Is it worth it for me to open the box and check the seating on the card or does that only work if the output completely fails?


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## aenea

> _Originally posted by erehm _
> *I believe there is a third failure mode with HDMI that has nothing to do with DOA or card seating, namely, the HDMI "fails" periodically (on the order of once per day) and a power-cycle fixes the "failure". I am quoting "fails" and "failure" because the symptoms of this failure mode include a snowy screen (not black), possible audio output and possible (if temporary) remote control.
> 
> In my case, this periodic "failure" ended with complete failure.
> 
> Please post a reply if you have had this kind of failure. I want to know if I'm alone.
> 
> /eric *


I've got the snowy picutre/fixed with a reboot thing going on right now. It started a couple of days ago. I'm pretty much resigned to it failing completley soon.


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## videoholic

Looks like Robert is going to check on it for me tomorrow. More power to him. THose tech guys are pretty tough to talk to. The dude kept asking me if I had a message on the screen. I don't know how many times I told him the machine was running fine it was just the output. UGH!!!


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## Rcam10

> _Originally posted by pbolya _
> *From what I seen so far there is two separate issues with the HDMI. One is dead out of the box and nothing you do will change that (firmware issue ??? hard to imagine). The other is that the card is not seated properly or will not seat properly. My method might fix this issue. If you push the top of the unit and the picture goes in and out that is a good sign that you have the formal and you have a chance to fix it. There is of course no guarantee that it will stay fixed but beats the horror of returning several boxes. By the way the only problem I saw ever since I did my fix is that yesterday while I was watching the Olympics suddenly the picture went black for 1 second and the unit rebooted. It really freaked me out but after 5-10 minutes I was back watching from the same point without any problems. Of course I missed 2x10 minutes as both tuner was recording when this happened. This might be there firmware issue they where talking about as a CARD seating issue should not reboot the TiVo (as it did not a moth ago for the entire time I was looking for a solution with the cover off). *


That was not my experience. My unit was DOA, and going inside, barely touching the copper clip on the back of the card, instantly brought the video back.

When you have a product with this many showing up with pretty much the exact problem, its almost aways the same defect causing it. There are always other problems that appear almost the same that isn't related.

I've personally saw two DOA HDMI units in April, and each one reacted the same way. I could keep it on, but I wanted one that (maybe) wouldn't go out one day, and refuse to come back by using the same type pressure on the card.

Pressing down on the top won't always bring it on either, because the second unit, which wasn't mine, wouldn't come back on doing that. I also saw another one last week, DOA, and yes, putting some pressure on the card bought that one on, but its acting up some, not wanting to really stay on.


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## Toeside

I called DirecTV 2 days ago, my replaced arrived today. That's GREAT turnaround for a replacement, I think.

THe new one works, and it has channel logos. 

FYI, I looked at the system informaton screen and the GC and Indexing dates were March 3, 2004 at 3:31pm. Looks like these are old hard drive images, and even with a 3/3/2004 date of GC and index, they still have logos! The build date of the box is July 6, 2004, exactly 3 months after my original USA model.

Craig


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## videoholic

What did you have to tell them to get a new one? THe dude told me he wanted to send me cables.


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## TonyM

> _Originally posted by erehm _
> *I believe there is a third failure mode with HDMI that has nothing to do with DOA or card seating, namely, the HDMI "fails" periodically (on the order of once per day) and a power-cycle fixes the "failure". I am quoting "fails" and "failure" because the symptoms of this failure mode include a snowy screen (not black), possible audio output and possible (if temporary) remote control.
> 
> In my case, this periodic "failure" ended with complete failure.
> 
> Please post a reply if you have had this kind of failure. I want to know if I'm alone.
> 
> /eric *


Same here.

Also, it seems to only happen if I turn off the TV. I have a new JVC D-ILA 61" set and if I leave it on all day, the worst that will happen is the shading effects, like compression artifacts. However, if I turn the TV off, or change the input for more than a couple hours, chances are great that I will have audio, but Snow for picture.

My replacement unit should be here soon. The Directv rep was quite funny, he just about insisted that this website and this thread/poll did not exist. He insisted there was no widespread problem, and that the internet was full of lies from the cable companies...  LOL.

I gave him the link to this thread, and the site. I hope he reads this, he needs an education. After a lengthy rant from me about how he was underinformed, he resigned from his post on the soapbox and ordered me a new unit.


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## Dead President

Initially they offered me a $100 credit to buy component cables. I agreed as I thought that t hey needed a software fix which I would receive in time. After reading this forum, I called and demanded a replacement. They agreed without a fuss and I received it within a few days. Interestingly the manufature date was the same as for my failed unit, but I might have got a refurb, who knows, it looks new and flawless. I have two HR10-250 units and the other one is fine . . . . for now.


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## ericlhyman

I received my replacement unit directly from DirecTV. It was manufactured on July 8 -- 3 days after my original one that had the HDMI/DVI problem. The replacement had a working HDMI/DVI; however, it also would not record anything, unlike the first one. The CSR-recommended fix of reformatting the hard drive did not help. They have now agreed to replace the replacement. 

Another odd thing about the replacement unit -- the receiver ID number on the backplate did not work. It was not the one that showed up on the tv screen and that had to be used to get the DirecTV service operating. Also, under Settings, the Tivo service number that came up was 
N/A 00000000000.


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## videoholic

Well mine is now completely dead. Still waiting on Robert from VE to help me. I've had this issue since 8/4 and I am no where closer to getting a new one than day one. I've been on hold now for 10 minutes with Direct TV. I've called them twice and they keep saying I have to go through who I bought it from. Well, I'm trying to do that, but it's been over two weeks and no one even has record of a problem with my unit.



EDIT:

Well I just got off the phone. over one hour eighteen minutes. spoke to 4 different people. Getting a new machine. Fingers crossed.


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## Toeside

I can't believe some of these calls are taking so long. I called from work, spoke with the Advanced tech group, call took 10 minutes. I told him that HDMI no longer works, but component, composite and S-video do. He said, OK, we'll send you one, but it could be back ordered.

Two days later, my replacement arrived.

Craig


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## bskesq

Just got my HD TIVO from Bestbuy.com. Pink screen with HDMI\DVI Cable. Component fine. Is this a dud that needs to go back? PAin in the ass for $1000. DOes anything work right out of the box anymore???


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## ChromeAce

Got my replacement HR10-250 from DirecTV. Works great. Before even powering it up, I transplanted the drives from my HR10-550. Connected ONLY the HDMI cable, turned my Sony VPL-HS20 on HDMI, and powered up the TiVo. Got a "Welcome" right away over HDMI. Switched to 1080i no problem. Powered down, rode the unit in a Hyundai Accent's front seat down the street to my brother's house, used his phone line for the initial call-in setup (I have Vonage VOIP only) and brought it back. Redid my Season Passes and after a few days all is well.

Either I lucked out and got a good unit or they found a fix.

The box looked a little beat up as usual, and they sent all the cables and remote and documentation since the unit was packed as a new unit for sale. The return instructions say "don't return the remote" so I guess I can keep the extra cables and remote? I don't wanna piss off DirecTV and obviously I don't want to be charged anything but will anyone in their receiving department really care if the cables aren't there? It's a defective unit! Plus, I deserve compensation for the inconvenience of replacement!


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## Chris Gerhard

> _Originally posted by SonyPlanet _
> *Either I lucked out and got a good unit or they found a fix.
> 
> The box looked a little beat up as usual, and they sent all the cables and remote and documentation since the unit was packed as a new unit for sale. The return instructions say "don't return the remote" so I guess I can keep the extra cables and remote? I don't wanna piss off DirecTV and obviously I don't want to be charged anything but will anyone in their receiving department really care if the cables aren't there? It's a defective unit! Plus, I deserve compensation for the inconvenience of replacement! *


According to this poll, about 5/7 work after 2 weeks so I agree with you, we are lucky to be in the 5. The cables are supposed to be returned as the HD TiVo will be refurbished and repackaged using the same cables. Apparently the remote is replaced rather than used. If you decide to steal the cables, will DirecTV do anything about it? I don't know.

Chris


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## TonyM

Unit # 2 is dead after 1 day of use.

Directv shipped it in the Tivo Box, and it was beat up pretty bad. This receiver doesn't even sit level on it's feet, I think the chassis is bent.

I had directv turn my old unit back on, and I am returning the bent replacement. I'll live with component for now, until they can fix this issue... 

I am still debating cancelling my re-sub option and getting my money back for the receiver, but since I bought the receiver from a retailer, and I am out of their return policy, I wonder if I can get Directv to refund me for it and take this POS back, heck, the SD quality isn't nearly as good as my old Sony HD receiver that I was about to put on ebay.

:down:


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## AbMagFab

I've had mine since mid-April (first shipment), and the HDMI just went yesterday (solarization, pink, then black - pushing the top cover can sometimes bring it back to normal for a few minutes). I previously voted it was fine, but no more.

The only thing I did was move it a couple times, which involved plugging/unplugging the HDMI cable. I think these things are fragile, and the more you "fiddle" with them, the more likely they are to go.

Living with component until D* replaces it.


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## mfleming

Is there any other company with a similar type unit on the horizon?


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## mfenster

I ordered my unit from Circuit City on-line. Received it on Aug 4. HDMI was dead out of the box. Talked today to a local CC store. They ordered a replacement for an exchange. No hassle (if within 30 days of purchase).


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## cocoon

Well I got replacement unit today. Would of had it Friday but DirecTV sent it to the wrong state (city same name) so of course the box had some damage. This unit also made in Mexico July 6 this time instead of July 21 for my first unit. The return label was also missing one more thing to complain about

Same exact problem so I called DirecTV after being on hold for some time I spoke to "Jason" he claimed this was the first he had heard of the HDMI problem sigh... so he puts me on hold to find more information. 

When he gets back he says they have no record of me calling about the defective unit in the first place. I eventualy commented on speculation about the HDMI card coming loose and he said had heard of that one so off to hold land I go...

Ok he said they dont refer to it has "HDMI failure" they talk about it as "HDMI card failure". I guess this is important for anyone else that will be calling DirecTV with this problem in the future...

They are sending me another unit this is getting old fast

All this makes me want to switch to Voom but they dont have equivalent of Tivo or as many channels for that matter.


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## jordanz

I got my replacement box today and the HDMI works (yeah!). A few things:

* This one seems to have new software or something. It auto switches between 480/720 when going between HD/SD TV. My old one didn't do that (unless I had something mis-configured).

* The image quality of SD seems a lot better on this unit.

* I have a DVI switcher and it doesn't seem to work with an HDMI to DVI cable. Damn!


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by jordanz _
> *I got my replacement box today and the HDMI works (yeah!). A few things:
> 
> * This one seems to have new software or something. It auto switches between 480/720 when going between HD/SD TV. My old one didn't do that (unless I had something mis-configured).
> 
> * The image quality of SD seems a lot better on this unit.
> 
> * I have a DVI switcher and it doesn't seem to work with an HDMI to DVI cable. Damn! *


 What is your software version (you can find it in the system information screen) ?


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## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by jordanz _
> *I got my replacement box today and the HDMI works (yeah!). A few things:
> 
> * This one seems to have new software or something. It auto switches between 480/720 when going between HD/SD TV. My old one didn't do that (unless I had something mis-configured).
> 
> * The image quality of SD seems a lot better on this unit.
> 
> * I have a DVI switcher and it doesn't seem to work with an HDMI to DVI cable. Damn! *


Can you confirm your software version on your HD Tivo, as well as describe how you know it's auto-switching between 720p and 480i/p? I think you might be getting confused with either the auto-pillaring setting on the Tivo or the HD OTA SD-in-a-box broadcasts.


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## chris_h

> _Originally posted by jordanz _
> *
> * This one seems to have new software or something. It auto switches between 480/720 when going between HD/SD TV. My old one didn't do that (unless I had something mis-configured).
> 
> *


Hey, that got my attention! This sounds like you may have some sort of beta or prototype software running on the unit, with a native resolution mode enabled. Can you tell us some more details?

How can you tell it is autoswitching between 480 and 720? 
What does the software version read in the system information screen?
What is the manufacture date of the unit?


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## jordanz

This all could be my own misunderstandings of how the HD DirecTivo box works.

Software version: 3.1.5-01-2-357
Man date: July 6, 2004
Box came directly from DirecTV

A big difference may also be that on the new box I'm connected via HDMI. The other box was connected by component because, obviously, HDMI didn't work.

On the old box, when I switched to OTA HD or Satellite HD, the picture would stay boxed in a 480 display unless I pressed the UP button to switch to 720. On the new box, SD channels display with letterbox panels but switching to OTA or Satellite HD switches into 720. Going to an SD channel switches back to 480 with panels.


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## chris_h

I think this may have to do with the ratio setting (to full/panel). It may also have to do with the source material containg panels or letterboxing. When playing the material, hitting up-arrow once will tell you what output format is currently being used. It is either 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Can you confirm that the actual output format setting is changing, as opposed to just the letterboxing or side panels?

I have the same software version as you, and I notice if ratio is set to "panel" then I get sidepanels on SD material, and HD material takes up the whole 16x9 screen. I suspect that this is what you are seeing also.
Please confirm.


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## jking1024

I just got my HD unit. Got it all configured, plugged in the HDMI-DVI cable, and had no problems. Until today. I was re-arranging the inputs on my tv (a Mitsu WS-65613) and suddenly the video is all blotchy, like the color resolution dropped to 8-bit, or something. There was some noise streaking in from the left side of the screen, too. *sigh* 

I have software 3.1.5-01-2-357, also. The unit was made in Mexico, but I don't see a manufacture date anywhere. I bought it from Ultimate Electronics. They still have a couple units un-sold (miracle of miracles!), so they can swap me out.

Back to the store I go!


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## jordanz

OK - it was my misunderstanding. I have the new box in "panel" mode. I didn't know about this before.


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## BTDT

> _Originally posted by erehm _
> *I believe there is a third failure mode with HDMI that has nothing to do with DOA or card seating, namely, the HDMI "fails" periodically (on the order of once per day) and a power-cycle fixes the "failure". I am quoting "fails" and "failure" because the symptoms of this failure mode include a snowy screen (not black), possible audio output and possible (if temporary) remote control.
> 
> In my case, this periodic "failure" ended with complete failure.
> 
> Please post a reply if you have had this kind of failure. I want to know if I'm alone.
> 
> /eric *


Yes, I have this kind of problem. It started happening this weekend (about 2 weeks into use) where the screen went all white/pink (actually white with tiny speckles). Cycling through the input resolutions fixed the problem. A couple of nights ago the screen went white for a moment and then was fine for the rest of the evening with no intervention. Last night it went black then white/pink then black then everything was okay again.

My thought is that this symptom is a HDMI synchronization issue of some sort. It smells like something that *might* be fixable in a firmware or software update, much like the DD cutout problem was on the original D-TiVo units.

This thread in general seems to be covering a number of problems which I theorize are distinct problems rather than all being the same. I could be wrong and the "pink screen" is merely a precursor to a larger breakdown, but I can always hope that this is a software rather than hardware thing in my case.


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## pbolya

This is slightly off topic but nevertheless the right audience: 

Today it was the 4th time that an HD show when I selected it from the now showing list it went straight to the do you want to delete page and when I said no it told me that nothing is recorded due to the fact that there was no signal. After trying several times with the same result when I start watching other shows and come back to this one later it plays it with no problem! Does anybody have the same issue? 

My 63h upgraded unit was relatively problem free up to this point it only rebooted unexpectedly once and the plastic spacer fixed the HDMI issue (of course there are no logos). It is strange what is considered a relatively problem free unit these days. I also have to mention that it is recording and playing almost 300 hours a week in the last 4 weeks or so (stress testing the upgrade first and 40h/day Olympics in the last week and the half).


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## AbMagFab

Notice of delete/no recording right away - I've only seen this on very long HD recordings (e.g. 8-hour olympics). Seems to be a memory thing. If you have other modifications to your unit, try disabling them?

HDMI/Snow - That's just another part of the symptoms. When the HDMI fails briefly, and then comes back, it renogotiates with the TV. Some TV's display this as what I like to call HD-snow. This is part of the same series of events that eventually leads to failure. Try lightly banging the top of the HD Tivo. If this causes any sort of failure conditions (pink, HD-snow, solarization), then your card will be dying soon enough.

The HDMI card goes bad. Symptoms are:
- Solarization
- Pink
- HD snow
- Blinking out and then coming back, usually associated with one or more of the above

They are all related, and seem to be either about the HDMI daughter card seating, or the HDMI connection itself. In any case, if you see the above symptoms, I'd suggest you call for a replacement.


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Notice of delete/no recording right away - I've only seen this on very long HD recordings (e.g. 8-hour olympics). Seems to be a memory thing. If you have other modifications to your unit, try disabling them?
> 
> HDMI/Snow - That's just another part of the symptoms. When the HDMI fails briefly, and then comes back, it renogotiates with the TV. Some TV's display this as what I like to call HD-snow. This is part of the same series of events that eventually leads to failure. Try lightly banging the top of the HD Tivo. If this causes any sort of failure conditions (pink, HD-snow, solarization), then your card will be dying soon enough.
> 
> The HDMI card goes bad. Symptoms are:
> - Solarization
> - Pink
> - HD snow
> - Blinking out and then coming back, usually associated with one or more of the above
> 
> They are all related, and seem to be either about the HDMI daughter card seating, or the HDMI connection itself. In any case, if you see the above symptoms, I'd suggest you call for a replacement. *


 Yesterday's "delete screen right away" issue was of course an HD Olympics recordings (as I record 40h + 10 SAT-T60 hours every day) but it was a manual 4 hours recording. Previous errors where prior to the Olympics so it must have been less then 3 hours.

I do have snow and gray screen for a second every now and then when I turn on the receiver from standby or when I start a recording. Ones I am playing the show there is no HDMI related issue (with the exception of 1 time when the machine rebooted in the middle of a playback missing 5-10 minutes of Olympics recording on both channels). These symptoms where there from day one (2 month and running) and I was thinking that they are "normal HD side affects". Until of course I had the blackout 1 day after I upgraded it which I fixed by the spacer.

I have no doubt that with or without the spacer it will die eventually but since I already upgraded I do not want to go through the hassle of putting everything back and loosing all my recordings. Besides as I am hearing from this forum the replacement unit can be even worst.


----------



## TriscuiT

Every day I have to reboot my HR10-250 to get the HDMI to "talk" to my JVC HD52Z575. It works fine following the reboot (which occurs when I get home from work). Once I shut the TV off at night it clearly loses the connection at some point during the next 20 hours. Additionally, I have the component video connected as well but that never works once the HDMI has failed. I suspect the TiVo disregards the component outputs when it thinks it should be using the HDMI. Of course it could be something with the TV as well but considering the number of problems reported here I don't consider it to be very likely.


----------



## Vizcaya

I got my Hd Tivo on Monday, 2 hours after setting it up, I was using the HDMI cable , and was working fine. Turned off TV, came back 2 hours later, Picture was Pinkish, I reset everything, and still the terrrible picture. I hooked up the Components, and everything is fine.

I waited 2 days before I called DTV, They are sending a replacement. I didn't get any problems with the CSR, they did say there has been a issue with some units. 

I will update when I get it.

Vizcaya


----------



## AbMagFab

HDMI pink = definite HDMI failure coming
HDMI solarization = definite HDMI failure coming
HDMI off/on = likely HDMI failure coming, or possibly TV/Tivo/switch communication issue
HD-Snow = possible HDMI failure coming, or possible TV/Tivo DVI communication issue, or possible DVI switch issue (if you're using one)

The HD-snow is a side effect of the digital HD resolution negotiation. Some TV's are better/worse at this. By itself, it's not an indication of HDMI failure. However when the HDMI starts failing, it will turn off and on, and will usually cause HD-snow in the process.


----------



## panic 66

> _Originally posted by TriscuiT _
> *Every day I have to reboot my HR10-250 to get the HDMI to "talk" to my JVC HD52Z575. It works fine following the reboot (which occurs when I get home from work). Once I shut the TV off at night it clearly loses the connection at some point during the next 20 hours. Additionally, I have the component video connected as well but that never works once the HDMI has failed. I suspect the TiVo disregards the component outputs when it thinks it should be using the HDMI. Of course it could be something with the TV as well but considering the number of problems reported here I don't consider it to be very likely. *


I also own an HD52Z575 and have the same problem. I had a Samsung HLP for about 2 months before exchanging it for the JVC. I did not start having the HDMI issue until I purchased the JVC. D* sent me a new receiver and it also has the HDMI problem. I figured I would try 1 more unit before resorting to using the component out until they figure out the problem. I hope it is just a coincidence and not an issue with the HDMI input on the JVC. My second replacement receiver is on the way.


----------



## MrCoolDu4

I just got off the phone with DirecTV and I have a new HD Tivo coming to replace my second defective unit. Both of them had HDMI problems. I hope they get it figured out, I mean it really doesn't do any good to send out units with the same problems. If it should happen again I am going to live with it if I can get a large credit. The purpose of this post though, is how easy it was to get a replacement this time versus when I called two weeks ago. I must have talked to four different people and not one would issue a replacement. They offered me a no cost service call which I took because I was getting nowhere on a second replacement unit. The charge showed up as $70 plus a -$70 resulting in $0 cost to me. I explained my problem to the serviceman and he was out the door in 15 minutes. Whats rather odd though, is when I just called, the DTV rep asked ME what happened with the service call. You would think they would have known.


----------



## gr8reb8

> _Originally posted by pbolya _
> *This is slightly off topic but nevertheless the right audience:
> 
> Today it was the 4th time that an HD show when I selected it from the now showing list it went straight to the do you want to delete page and when I said no it told me that nothing is recorded due to the fact that there was no signal. After trying several times with the same result when I start watching other shows and come back to this one later it plays it with no problem! Does anybody have the same issue?
> *


I am getting this as well. This is how I can re-create it.

I manually record a long, eight hours (Olympics segment) from channel 84. I start the manual recording at 4:00am and it ends at noon. Begin watching it the next day and get about half way through. Exit out from the program at about 4 hours in to it. Now schedule a recording of the next days program with the same times. Now, on the morning of the third day while it is still recording the next program (it started at 4:00am), when I attempt to continue watching the program that I was watching the day before and that I was about half way through, the Tivo will NOT let me see it and gives me the option to delete it. If I wait until the next recording that is in progress completes (at 12 noon), I can then watch the previous program with no problems.....


----------



## ja1

I too just had everything go psychadelic on me (solarization?) via HDMI. Had to remove the card when I contacted DirecTv on a billing issue and when I put it back in everything went goofy.

They are sending me a replacement. This has to be costing someone a fortune.

Question: I bought an extended warranty at Tweeter. If I call them when my new unit arrives and give them the new serial number, will they transfer over the extended warranty?

Thanks!


----------



## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by ja1 _
> *I too just had everything go psychadelic on me (solarization?) via HDMI. Had to remove the card when I contacted DirecTv on a billing issue and when I put it back in everything went goofy.
> 
> They are sending me a replacement. This has to be costing someone a fortune.
> 
> Question: I bought an extended warranty at Tweeter. If I call them when my new unit arrives and give them the new serial number, will they transfer over the extended warranty?
> 
> Thanks! *


Why didn't you call Tweeter for the replacement? I doubt they'll transfer it now...


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by gr8reb8 _
> *I am getting this as well. This is how I can re-create it.
> 
> I manually record a long, eight hours (Olympics segment) from channel 84. I start the manual recording at 4:00am and it ends at noon. Begin watching it the next day and get about half way through. Exit out from the program at about 4 hours in to it. Now schedule a recording of the next days program with the same times. Now, on the morning of the third day while it is still recording the next program (it started at 4:00am), when I attempt to continue watching the program that I was watching the day before and that I was about half way through, the TiVo will NOT let me see it and gives me the option to delete it. If I wait until the next recording that is in progress completes (at 12 noon), I can then watch the previous program with no problems..... *


 Every time I had this problem it happened before I watched the recording at all (maybe the pointer got messed up ?). The last time it happened it was like this: I set up a recurring manual recording from 1 am-5am on NBC HD(which is 4am-8am for you) and another one for 5am-9am (which is 9am-12pm for you). I created 2 recordings so I will not end up with an 8h HD recording. By the way the schedule is all messed up/missing for the Olympics HD. For 5 days (and for the last two days) it worked like a charm. But 2 days ago when I turned the TiVo on and both of those programs where already done recording (like 9:05 or so) I wanted to start to watch the 1am-5am one (for the first time) and it gave me that message. I than checked if the 2nd one has the same problem but it did not. So I started to record the HD feed again and set to record between 9am - 1pm (replay of 1am-5am) and started to record. Even though it was already 9:20am it was on the right channel so it had the last 20 minutes in the buffer. But at that point I went back to try again to play the 1am-5am recording and surprise surprise it started from the beginning and not have a problem with that or any other program (including the last two days 1am-5am programs) ever again. I am sure that this is a new software bug that had been introduced with the 3.1.5 release and we will hear a lot about it in the next few months.


----------



## jb007

I received a brand new HD TiVo from D* today that was built 6/04 (no USA or Mexico marking), to replace my first unit that had a bad hard drive.

When I connected the new unit with HDMI I got the polarization, mostly shifting red and green. I was able to run setup, but after a reset of the TiVo I received no video thru HDMI whatsoever. I did receive sound and was able to get a normal picture thru component cables.

Now, here's the twist: I still have my original HD TiVo with the bad hard drive, to be returned to D* and the HDMI works fine on that unit. So, I just remove the 3 screws in the back and swap out the HDMI card with the one in the replacement unit. But no picture!

My point is, that at least in my case, it's not the HDMI card itself, but the connection slot or something in the motherboard.

Ah, the mystery goes on . . .


----------



## AbMagFab

Nope, it's the HDMI card. They are very fragile. By swapping the cards, you probably busted the working one.

Second, that was a dumb move. If you were comfortable opening up the unit, you should have swapped the HD back into the original unit and then returned the new one.


----------



## Flee

I've had my HR10-250 for about two weeks now. I'm starting to see the deadful signs of impending doom. While watching a high def version of Silence of the Lambs that had been Tivo'd the screen flashed pink for about half a second. It's interesting to note that I had been pushing my Tivo pretty hard just prior to watching the movie.


----------



## cocoon

Got my 2nd replacement HD Tivo yesterday same old problem or annoyance. Ive given up maybe their is some incompatibility with these machines and Toshiba 46H84. Compared to the other problems seen on this forum mine is more of annoyance. I find the stretch mode for 480I/P better then the 720p or 1080i when watching SD sourced programs so I end up cycling through the resolutions anyway. Still having to cycle through resolutions or 4:3 16:9 mode every time I turn on the TV is damn weird and annoying. sigh...


----------



## grafals

> _Originally posted by Flee _
> *I've had my HR10-250 for about two weeks now. I'm starting to see the deadful signs of impending doom. While watching a high def version of Silence of the Lambs that had been Tivo'd the screen flashed pink for about half a second. It's interesting to note that I had been pushing my Tivo pretty hard just prior to watching the movie. *


"Clarice, do you hear that sound? It's the sound of the HDMI card screaming! Do you hear it Clarice?!"


----------



## KalaPela

I got my HR-250 last week and the HDMI worked for about 30 seconds. Whenever i plugged it up everything was red and black, after i wiggled the cable everything came in clear for a second then went black. 

I just received my replacement Tivo about 2 hours ago, the HDMI was dead out of the box. 

2 dead units so far, with my luck this may take a few months


----------



## Vizcaya

I returned my first unit, and have the replacement. Everything was fine while using the HDMI port until I changed the input source to the TV. Once I went back to see the HDMI video from my DTVHDTivo , the video was Pink, and seemed like the video was in 8 bit color. I was upset.

But, all is not lost. I ended up cycling through all the Video formats on the front of the Tivo, and the Video came back to normal. I went ahead and tried it a few times, and I was able to get the HDMI to display the video correctly everytime.

I have a 52H84 , Toshiba 52 DLP . Hopefully this helps some other users.

You can set-up the Tivo Remote to cycle through the formats, if you do not want to press the format button in the front of the Tivo.

Vizcaya


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## beaster

OK, mine case is a little odd. Had the unit for about 3-4 weeks, using HDMI -> DVI from the very start with no probs until this morning. Turn on the TV and the picture is all squiggly - looks like scrambled cable TV or something. I figured, OK, here we go, HDMI failure. Switched over to component and everything was kosher, so yep, same as everyone else.

But after a while the HDMI came back. Then it failed again. This time, instead of switching back to component, I cycled through to 720p and 1080i - they were fine! It's only 480i that's goofed up (so far at least). Anyone had theirs fail this way?

-Sean


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## AbMagFab

Sounds like a TV resolution synch problem, not a HDMI failure. What kind of TV?


----------



## beaster

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Sounds like a TV resolution synch problem, not a HDMI failure. What kind of TV? *


It's a Sony GWIII (which accepts all resolutions - 480i/p, 720p, 1080i). Would seem odd if this was a problem with the TV - as I said everything worked just fine over DVI for 3-4 weeks, now it's sporadically having trouble with 480i over the DVI. Component is fine at all resolutions.

-Sean


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## PRMan

Just as a followup, it's been 10 days with no problems since I pressed hard with both palms. I really think I have seated the card properly. Remember, this was on a unit with a DOA HDMI. I won't be taking it back unless I can't fix it myself, because I have logos.


----------



## pbolya

Yesterday when I turned the HD TiVo on there was only snow on the picture so I thought here we go after about a month with the spacer the damn thing gave up on me but when I cycled through the resolutions it came back. Maybe there is a software problem after all.


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## AbMagFab

Again, just the snow is normal DVI resolution coordination stuff. You'll see this more with a DVI switch.

Only when this is coupled with solarization, pink, and blanking out, is it an HDMI failure.

Snow alone is sort of normal with HDCP/DVI/HDMI.


----------



## beaster

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Again, just the snow is normal DVI resolution coordination stuff. You'll see this more with a DVI switch.
> 
> Only when this is coupled with solarization, pink, and blanking out, is it an HDMI failure.
> 
> Snow alone is sort of normal with HDCP/DVI/HDMI. *


OK, sorry, I didn't mean to imply there was snow. I'm not seeing any snow. I'm seeing a distorted, squiggly picture, similar to a scrambled cable signal (which in my experience doesn't look snowy, just wiggly). It's as if all the lines of resolution are bent in long s-curves - like I'm looking at it via a funhouse mirror. Often times it blanks out completely. But always with 480i only - as soon as I switch to 720p/1080i everything is cool.

-Sean


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## AbMagFab

Sorry - I was referring to the other post there...

Squiggly lines on DVI on the GWIII? Very odd. Squiggly lines like you describe are typically only over analog, so you'd see them over component. Basically the equivalent of the snow on DVI (that is, trouble synch'ing resolutions).

Never seen what you describe on DVI. Does it go away if you cycle resolutions?


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## cocoon

Earlier today I got the "squiglly lines" and blanking out like a computer monitor when fed an invalid resolution. I was watching recorded HD resolution material so I was switching from 480P to 1080i. It froze for a while took a minute to cycle through resolutions which didn't quite fix it. When I got the direcTV menu it was the pink/purple again so cycle through the modes again had to do that a couple times before it finally stabilized. This is HDMI to HDMI connections on my Toshiba 46H84.


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## AbMagFab

The pink/purple part is scary, and usually means an HDMI failure is coming. Assuming you mean a regular picture that looks like it's rendered with old CGA colors.


----------



## beaster

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Sorry - I was referring to the other post there...
> 
> Squiggly lines on DVI on the GWIII? Very odd. Squiggly lines like you describe are typically only over analog, so you'd see them over component. Basically the equivalent of the snow on DVI (that is, trouble synch'ing resolutions).
> 
> Never seen what you describe on DVI. Does it go away if you cycle resolutions? *


Oops, my bad, I missed the post from pbolya so I assumed you were talking to me.  Anyway, no, unfortunately it doesn't go away when I cycle through the resolutions. 

-Sean


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## jeffreyh

With the HDMI to DVI cable in use I see a picture that mostly look great. The problem I have is that I seem to have a couple of rows of pixels at the top of the screen that are all messed up. When using the composite outputs everything looks fine. 

Has anyone else had a problem like this one? Would a new unit maybe fix it?


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## cocoon

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *The pink/purple part is scary, and usually means an HDMI failure is coming. Assuming you mean a regular picture that looks like it's rendered with old CGA colors. *


Yeah that would be my guess as well. I only posted that problem because it was the first time that I had difficulty cycling through the resolutions to fix the problem. Every other time its been near instant in fixing the problem.

Call to get unit 3 replaced I guess.


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Again, just the snow is normal DVI resolution coordination stuff. You'll see this more with a DVI switch.
> 
> Only when this is coupled with solarization, pink, and blanking out, is it an HDMI failure.
> 
> Snow alone is sort of normal with HDCP/DVI/HDMI. *


 That is what I am hoping for and the reason why I sad there maybe a software fix after all. However I have the unit for 3 month now and the HDMI went out after 2 month of use. I fixed it with the spacer a month ago but I never had a problem where the snow did not disappear automatically after 1 seconds. I tried everything even putting the unit back to standby but nothing worked until I changed the resolution to 480i when it was magically fixed and no problem ever since. I just have the constant feeling that the HDMI will eventually go dead and even a hammer will not fix it anymore.


----------



## Rcam10

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Again, just the snow is normal DVI resolution coordination stuff. You'll see this more with a DVI switch.
> 
> Only when this is coupled with solarization, pink, and blanking out, is it an HDMI failure.
> 
> Snow alone is sort of normal with HDCP/DVI/HDMI. *


 Yes, but what happens when the connection is going off/on very quickly on that HDMI card, that causes a confused communcation problem, and it can end up causing show. I've see snow quite a lot when the ones I've messed with were acting up.

I also don't think anyone has actually proven its just the card itself. I've heard one case where the card was changed from a good unit an it worked, in this thread someone said it didn't. Its unlikely someone would damage a card just by unplugging it and switching. Too me, it still acts like a problem where the two connects, along with maybe a frequency type problem in tha area also.

I mean it can be really really sensitive to motion and then again it takes hard force to bring it back on.

The most amusing part is they aren't addressing the problem yet at all, I'm sure one of the reasons probably is the fact so many don't use HDMI yet, so I know that is causing less to come back for repair.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by Rcam10 _
> *Yes, but what happens when the connection is going off/on very quickly on that HDMI card, that causes a confused communcation problem, and it can end up causing show. I've see snow quite a lot when the ones I've messed with were acting up.
> 
> I also don't think anyone has actually proven its just the card itself. I've heard one case where the card was changed from a good unit an it worked, in this thread someone said it didn't. Its unlikely someone would damage a card just by unplugging it and switching. Too me, it still acts like a problem where the two connects, along with maybe a frequency type problem in tha area also.
> 
> I mean it can be really really sensitive to motion and then again it takes hard force to bring it back on.
> 
> The most amusing part is they aren't addressing the problem yet at all, I'm sure one of the reasons probably is the fact so many don't use HDMI yet, so I know that is causing less to come back for repair. *


 I doubt that the problem is with the card itself. I think the problem is with the mother board and how the card is attached to the mother board. It could very well be a frequency issue or in my case seams to do something with the metal pin wich is as I learned has nothing to do with securing the card to the mother board. But than what is it used for? In my tests when the pin touched the card's circuit board the picture went out.


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## cocoon

I called DirecTV earlier today. I am just tired of testing their product for them. Its obvious to me that this product shouldn't of been on the market til they got the bugs out. Does a $1000 product bring better odds of it functioning correctly apparently not if your DirecTV. I told them I wanted my money back so they are sending a "recovery kit" they said should arrive in 2 weeks so I can send back the defective units. Maybe when they get the bugs out of these HD Tivos I will look into but this whole incident has really soured me on DirecTV.


----------



## jlas75

I hear you. I actually considered cancelling DirecTV and going with Comcast. Frankly, you get a lot more bang for you buck in HD programming with cable (Comcast) in my area (Philadelphia) than you do with DirecTV. And, I'm sure Comcast will have an HD DVR that works soon.


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## ericlhyman

The third unit I received as a replacement was manufactured in Mexico on July 7, 2004 and has no problems with HDMI or the hard drive.


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## videoholic

I just received my replacement Tivo and it was DOA.

2 questions.

DO I get to keep the remote?

Does anyone have a good phone number to call to fast track to the second layer of tech support? I waited for 1:20 last time.


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## MrCoolDu4

I told them I wanted my money back so they are sending a "recovery kit"


What is a recovery kit ???


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## cocoon

I guess "recovery kit" is just their terminlogy for RMA for customers who want refund.


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## AbMagFab

Now that's jumping to conclusions...

Perhaps he misunderstood, and it's a "Discovery kit", from the Discovery channel? That could be neat.

Or maybe he thought you had fertility issues, and it's an "Overy kit".

Instead maybe he was attracted to you, and it's a "Loverly kit".

It might be because you talked quickly, and it's a "Deliverly kit".

It couldn't be because he thought you were bright, and it's a "Cleverly kit", could it?


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## videoholic

Does no one have a good phone number for advanced tech support?


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## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by videoholic _
> *Does no one have a good phone number for advanced tech support? *


Based on your other e-mail, why do you want this number? It takes like 15 minutes to get a replacement if it died.


----------



## jcmartz

Thought I'd add a few observations to the HDMI failure thread; please excuse me if this has been posted before in this thread.

My first HR10-250 didn't support HDMI out of the box (USA box, April 04). I thought this was a problem with the DVI input on my Samsung (specifically, HDCP support). 

I just hooked up my second HR10-250 to support an older plasma display without HDMI/DVI input (Aug 04 USA box). On a hunch, I plugged this box into my Sammy DVI input, and it works great! (greatly improved picture, as well). I opened both boxes, and noticed that the HDMI cards were different in each. Specifically, the newer card has "2004" printed on the trailing edge, as well as some other nomenclature differences. To avoid swapping hard drives (I've upgraded my first box), I just swapped the HDMI cards in both boxes. The original unit with the newer HDMI card now works great.

I would conclude that the problem is most certainly with the HDMI card and that swapping a new card into the older unit works fine. I also noted that my other box works fine without any card installed. If we could convince Hughes to ship replacement cards, that seems a simpler solution than sending your whole unit back. The card-replacement is plug-n-play if you have the right torx screwdriver.

Hope this helps,

Joe Martz


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## milo2

First HR10-250: Mexico, July 10, 2004. Solarization appeared after about four days of use. Gradually worsened. Next day screen was blank, and machine refused to boot if HDMI cable was inserted.

Replacement HR10-250: Mexico, July 18, 2004. Solarization right out of the box. DirecTV sez their entire computer system fell over tonight, so no resolution until tomorrow at least. [Er - pun not intended.]

Crossing my fingers about jcmartz's comment above. There's pretty clearly a mechanical issue with the connector on the older cards; here's hoping they've fixed it!


----------



## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by jcmartz _
> *Thought I'd add a few observations to the HDMI failure thread; please excuse me if this has been posted before in this thread.
> 
> My first HR10-250 didn't support HDMI out of the box (USA box, April 04). I thought this was a problem with the DVI input on my Samsung (specifically, HDCP support).
> 
> I just hooked up my second HR10-250 to support an older plasma display without HDMI/DVI input (Aug 04 USA box). On a hunch, I plugged this box into my Sammy DVI input, and it works great! (greatly improved picture, as well). I opened both boxes, and noticed that the HDMI cards were different in each. Specifically, the newer card has "2004" printed on the trailing edge, as well as some other nomenclature differences. To avoid swapping hard drives (I've upgraded my first box), I just swapped the HDMI cards in both boxes. The original unit with the newer HDMI card now works great.
> 
> I would conclude that the problem is most certainly with the HDMI card and that swapping a new card into the older unit works fine. I also noted that my other box works fine without any card installed. If we could convince Hughes to ship replacement cards, that seems a simpler solution than sending your whole unit back. The card-replacement is plug-n-play if you have the right torx screwdriver.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Joe Martz *


I believe that's what Hughes is doing when they get the machines back. Most consumers can't replace a card, and opening the box voids the warrantee.

So, ship the box back, they replace the HDMI card, then they reship it to someone else.


----------



## John_D

I can't respond to the poll because I don't know where the 2 units that I returned were manufactured.

Both were manufactured in July 04 and in the same shipment to my local Best Buy. The first one worked out of the box and then developed the pink and blue screen after 2 days. The 2nd one had no video at all so I got my money back. Other than the failed HDMI port the units were great and I miss it already. I'm thinking about trying to find it from another retailer in my area.

I had mine hooked up to a Sony Grand Wega III 42" LCD. The SD output over the HDMI port acutally looked very good. I'm not sure how to word this correctly but it seemed that the 480i output was a closer match to my display's native resolution. There was very little "stair-stepping" on curves that can be caused by line-doubling. The component output was definitely not as good on SD but was very close on HD.


----------



## gbohn

> _Originally posted by TonyM _
> *Same here.
> 
> Also, it seems to only happen if I turn off the TV. I have a new JVC D-ILA 61" set and if I leave it on all day, the worst that will happen is the shading effects, like compression artifacts. However, if I turn the TV off, or change the input for more than a couple hours, chances are great that I will have audio, but Snow for picture.
> 
> *


I have had the Directv HD Tivo since the first units were shipped out back in mid April, and mine has been working perfectly (with two different Mitsubishi TVs... one old one and a new DLP) until i got the new JVC D-ILA 61" TV about a week ago.

After about a week of working fine, now for two consecutive days, when I turned on the TV fot the first time that day, I was getting "no signal" from my TV via the HDMI output. If I unplug and replug my box, it works fine again. Today, when I turned on the TV, I see snow, alternating with a full green screen. And now, a reboot does not fix the problem.

Could this be a compatibilty issue with the JVC? Or is it a coincidence that my problems have started since I got this new TV?


----------



## gbohn

wow, i called DirecTV, and within just a few minutes, they said they would send me a new receiver... they first tried to send me a new HDMI cable, but I told them the problem is not in the cable, it's in the receiver.... we will see if the new one works better.

For all of those others having HDMI problems, does a reboot or power on-off solve the problem temporarily?


----------



## gbohn

oh, by they way, my failure was on a unit made in USA April 28 2004


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## videoholic

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Based on your other e-mail, why do you want this number? It takes like 15 minutes to get a replacement if it died. *


Well the other message was from when I finally found the number.

My original time was 1:20... I called 3 times before that over a half an hour each time but had to drop.

So again, thanks to the member who posted the number in the other thread.


----------



## odys

My first HR10-250 died last week after about a month and a half. They shipped out a replacement, which I received yesterday and the HDMI didn't work at all right out of the box. The way the box looked after arriving from Fedex, I'm not surprised it didn't work. 

I called the second tier service number to activate and got a totally clueless CSR. When I told her my HDMI connection wasn't working, she asked me if I was using the red, green and blue cables. Aaaaarrrgh! I knew I was in for a long, painful ride. Little did I know what was to come.

As clueless as she was, she knew enough to pass me on to someone else. The next guy at least put in an order for another replacement right away. How much did he know about HDTV? Only slightly more than the other CSR. When he had me plug in the component connections to see if the box worked at all, I had to tell him that the HDMI connection had to be removed before the component would kick in. "Oh, yeah, that's right" he said, trying to cover his lack of knowledge. 

Now comes the best part. He asks if I have a picture. I say yes. I hear him start typing. Then nothing but background noise. I figure he's working on the order for the replacement, so I settle in front of the PC and start playing poker while I'm waiting. Still nothing but background noise. How long can this possibly take? After 15-20 minutes (no kidding) I ask how much longer this is going to take. 

"Oh, you're done," he replies.

"What? You've got to be kidding me! When were planning on speaking to me?"

No confirmation number for my replacement and he didn't even activate the new box so I could at least watch it through the component connection until the next replacement arrived. He insisted I was activated, which I wasn't. He hadn't asked for my card number, serial number or any other activation info. Time to speak to the supervisor. After several minutes on hold, I'm disconnected. I call back, get a supervisor who knows wtf he's talking about and get everything done. He researches the history of my previous call and it turns out the first CSR was logged into the wrong computer profile and wasn't qualified to answer a tier two service call and neither was the idiot she transferred me to. 

I did get the supervisor to admit that they were having extensive HDMI problems with these units (really!?!) and that their people were working feverishly to correct the problem. He also said that there should be no problem with the new unit. So the HDMI problem will be solved by the time my unit ships tomorrow, I think to myself, but don't say anything. We'll see what happens with the new unit.


----------



## mfleming

I know this is slightly off-topic, but it is related to DTV support. I'm a former Pegasus customer that they begged to switch to them for better service. HaHaHa! Service was great with Pegasus. Now, Pegasus customers can only order PPV movies over the phone. Ive used it three times. First time, they said the order was done, but the movie never started; when I called back the office was closed! Second time, okay, after 20 mintue hold. Third time, 40 minutes hold, which casued me to miss the movie!

CSRs are understanding and say DTV isn't very concerned about getting Pegasus records integrated into their PPV ordering system soon. Guess they are too busy replacing HR10's! 

An, oh, my HR10 HDMI never worked either. Not buying a new one until I hear they have fixed the problem, or until a competitor comes out with one.


----------



## AbMagFab

Can't you order with your remote?


----------



## milo2

> _Originally posted by odys _
> *I did get the supervisor to admit that they were having extensive HDMI problems with these units (really!?!) and that their people were working feverishly to correct the problem. He also said that there should be no problem with the new unit. *


Huh. The 2nd-tier CSR last night wasn't as optimistic, but he admitted he hadn't been briefed on the latest happenings. There are apparently customers who've gone through 4 or 5 of these boxes and still don't have a functional HDMI port.


----------



## MrCoolDu4

I have contacted DTV for dead HDMI's, and both of the replacement units they've sent are dead right out of the box. I dont know what to make of this, I haven't even called to activate the one that showed up yesterday. I see no point to replace a bad unit with another with the same problem. So as for me i'll be going on number four. Sheesh.


----------



## panic 66

> _Originally posted by gbohn _
> 
> Could this be a compatibility issue with the JVC? Or is it a coincidence that my problems have started since I got this new TV? [/B]


gbohn,

Same problem here. I had an HLP5063 for a couple of months that I returned for 52" D-ILA. Within a days of hooking up the JVC my Tivo's HDMI started acting up. I thought it was just coincidence since so many were having the HDMI issues. Had a replacement sent out and it reacted the same way. Had a second replacement sent out and it definitely had an HDMI issue since I was getting the solarized picture and it would react to pushing on top of the box and wiggling the cable. Sent that box back and kept the second one hooked up via component. At first I still thought it had to be the Tivo since the box seemed to be locked up when it lost the HDMI connection and would not respond to the remote or buttons on the front panel. I called JVC about another concern with my D-ILA (greenish glow in lower corner). I also mentioned the Tivo HDMI problem that seemed to coincide with the D-ILA purchase. Believe it or not JVC flew an Engineer from San Diego to Denver to look at my set. The Engineer said that the HDMI issue is being looked at and they have an HD TIVO in Japan that they are testing as we speak. They are replacing my set this week. I plan on keeping the Tivo hooked up via component and using the HDMI for a Denon 1910 but I would also like to know if I need to get a new Tivo once the HDMI issue is corrected. At this point I guess we still do not know for sure if it is related to the set but it seems like a strong possibility. Sorry for the long post!


----------



## grafals

I know I'm gonna regret doing this, but . . . my replacement HR10-250, made in Mexico, has been going strong now for 30 days. The first one was DOA. I sure hope I'm not ginxing myself! (Knock on wood, pinch of salt, rabbit's foot, crossed fingers, is there anything I'm leaving out?)


----------



## gbohn

> _Originally posted by panic 66 _
> *gbohn,
> 
> I also mentioned the Tivo HDMI problem that seemed to coincide with the D-ILA purchase. *


The JVC website has a FAQ under Service and Support... here is what they say for the DILA TVs:
Q. My television shows snow, lines and sometimes no picture when I connect the TV to my set top box via HDMI.
A. There might be a compatibility issue when using certain HDMI equipped sources. To remedy this situation, a relatively simple update to the HDILA TV set is available. As the update requires installation of a component, it is highly recommended that the update be performed only by a qualified professional from a JVC authorized service center. To obtain the name of your nearest JVC HDILA authorized service center, please call (800) 252-5722 or click on the Service Center Locator tab.

I am going to try this


----------



## paul01463

I received a replacement HR10-250 from DirecTv yesterday (shipped by second day air, not overnight as committed to in their support agreement, but anyway). Within 2 hours of installation, video from the HDMI port started to pixelate and then display the dreaded pink-hughed picture. Toggling resolution did not help. Further, the unit started to emanate a high-frequency whine - drove the dog out of the TV room, which is a first. The whine sounds to me like a hard-disk about to crash. 

I brought the unit out of standby this morning only to find the HDMI port completely dead and the whine even louder. 

So, I called the good folk at DirecTv, and they wanted to step through the whole trouble-shooting procedure. Finally, they agreed that I might have a defective unit, but insisted that they could not send more then one replacement unit within a ninety-day period. So, we went through the support agreement and they finally agreed that no such limitations exist - and set up a shipment for a second replacement unit (holding breath). And so it goes.

I started this process at 0600 this morning and finally hung up the phone at 0930 - what a way to run a railroad.


----------



## gbohn

i have no idea if the problem is in the TiVo or in my JVC TV... it is clear the problem is only with HDMI output. There are the arguments for the problem being with both units:

DirecTV HD TIVO arguments:
- the problem is corrected with a simple unplug/reboot
- when the problem is occuring, if i switch to component cables and try to press some buttons, the TiVo box freezes up

JVC DILA TV arguments:
- the problem only occurs when turning on the TV for the first time... it never just goes out on me while I am watching programing

Is anybody more technical than me that could possibly explain this? If there is a compatibility problem between the two units, could it cause both units to behave strangly like this??


----------



## lawnmowerdeth

Well, I've saved up enough to get the new receiver, but after this thread, I'm not sure I really want to deal with it. But I really really want my HD NFL!


----------



## gbohn

I just talked to a guy at JVC. He said the problem is likely a compatibility issue with the TV set, NOT a problem with my DirecTV HD TiVo box. JVC posts right on their website that there are known compatibility issues with HDMI devices .. .and this is one box that they are having a lot of problems with. A simple hardware fix on one of the boards on the TV set will likely remedy the problem.

I think the reason people are having multiple problems with multiple HD TiVos is because it is NOT THE BOX THAT IS THE PROBLEM... many TVs probably are the source of the issue. And since 90% of people buying these new HDMI TVs are using the HD TiVo box, it tends to get blamed on the receiver. Instead of looking to see who is having problems with boxes produced in Mexico or US, or the dates... we should post a poll asking what model of TV people are using that are having problems.


----------



## paul01463

[snip] I think the reason people are having multiple problems with multiple HD TiVos is because it is NOT THE BOX THAT IS THE PROBLEM... [/B][/QUOTE]

Your observation maybe correct in some instances, but with my installation, the display's HDMI interface and cable work perfectly with three other manufacturers' products connected to it, but does not work with either of the two HR10-250 units I have tried to date. This would tend to indicate that display's HDMI interface is functioning correctly. Further, the problem grows worse over time and can be corrected for a short period of time by replacing the HR10-250, which again would indicate that the HR10-250 is the culprit


----------



## grizzlyt

I just got mine and hooked it up to my new Sony KF-60WE610. First day the HDMI picture looke like what your computer looks like in safe mode. Basic colors. Now I get no picture. Works fine with component outputs.

I purchased online from Circuit City. They told me to call Direct TV. I talked to Direct TV for 1 1/2 hours today. Got to the second service level and they first said they never heard of this problem. After telling them I know they have had issues I was placed on hold for about 10 minutes. They came back and said there is an issue with the chip on the board coming loose during shipping. Said I had to go to Circuit City. I'll go there tomorrow and see what I kind of help I can get. 

Does anyone else have my model TV to confirm if the HDMI should work?


----------



## beaster

> _Originally posted by grizzlyt _
> *I just got mine and hooked it up to my new Sony KF-60WE610.
> 
> ...
> 
> Does anyone else have my model TV to confirm if the HDMI should work? *


I have a Sony KF-42WE610 (same thing, only 42" instead of 60"). My HDMI worked great for the first 3-4 weeks then died, so yes, it should work fine w/your TV if the HDTivo is functioning properly.

-Sean


----------



## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by grizzlyt _
> *I just got mine and hooked it up to my new Sony KF-60WE610. First day the HDMI picture looke like what your computer looks like in safe mode. Basic colors. Now I get no picture. Works fine with component outputs.
> 
> I purchased online from Circuit City. They told me to call Direct TV. I talked to Direct TV for 1 1/2 hours today. Got to the second service level and they first said they never heard of this problem. After telling them I know they have had issues I was placed on hold for about 10 minutes. They came back and said there is an issue with the chip on the board coming loose during shipping. Said I had to go to Circuit City. I'll go there tomorrow and see what I kind of help I can get.
> 
> Does anyone else have my model TV to confirm if the HDMI should work? *


I've got the 50" version, and it works fine.

Again, symptoms of an HDMI failure are:
a) Solarization
b) Pink saturation w/ solarization
c) Blanking/snow with (a) and/or (b)

Just blanking/snow does not indicate an HDMI failure. It might be one, but the actual failures show symptoms of (a) and (b) first. If you don't see this, it's possibly a cable problem, or something similar to the JVC TV compatibility problem noted above.


----------



## grizzlyt

Well, went to Curcuit City today. Explained my bad HDMI. Because it is within 30 days they said sure bring it in and get a new one. Of course they don't have the box in the store so it has to be shipped. I'll let you know how the second box works.

Glad to hear there are other people with my tv model that the box works on.


----------



## Dead President

After reading this forum, I insisted on a replacement from DirecTV and they FedEx-ed a refurbed unit, twice. I have two HR10-250s and so far I've had 2 DOA HDMI on arrival and 1 dead (wouldn't power up) after a month. I still need to send my last one back for the bad HDMI, but that makes 5 HD Tivos to get 2 good ones. I have a Mitsubishi 52" DLP and a 50" Pioneer Elite HD-1110 Plasma. If I didn't have multiple HDMI capable TVs and two DVRs, I don't know how I would have ever isolated this. I can't believe after all this that they are still shipping replacement units with bad HDMI outputs.


----------



## breevesdc

I am an owner of two ReplayTV units. Love it. But can't hold out for their (seemingly non-existent) plans to provide an HD solution. I'm ready to make the switch, but I'm spooked by the HDMI problems reported here. Hope it gets resolved before the Super Bowl. I'll keep checking here. Thanks for all of the info and updates.

Brian


----------



## mfleming

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Can't you order with your remote? *


No. Previous Pegasus custmoers cannot order with the remote and there is no ETA when we can. It's phone only with up to a 40 minute wait to order.

Between this and the HR10, I'm getting ready to go to Dish Network and learn to live with their DVR instead of TIVO.


----------



## mfleming

John Dvorak had a column in the 9/21 issue of PCMag about the Dish Network HD receiver/recorder. He loved it. I just emailed him about all the problems with DTV's unit and their support for previous Pegasus customers. If others email him ([email protected]) he might make a stink in his column and force DTV to do something. Here is what I wrote:

--

I read your 9/21 column today in PC Magazine about Dish Network. Relatedly, I knew would be interested in a HUGE problem that DirecTV is not admitting to.

They have a new Hughes box (HR10-250) that is a HD receiver/Tivo unit. It sells for $1,000. The problem is that the HDMI output does not work on a significant percentage of the units, forcing people to go to component video for an inferior signal. People are returning these en masse and getting bad ones again in return. People are pissed. DTV will not comment on the problem and the CSR's will not acknowledge there is a problem.

There is a very active discussion on this problem that you have to read to believe. It is found at:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183203&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

on the Tivo Community forum.

My case is like many. I purchased a $4,000 HD TV and then excitedly ordered the $1,000 HR10-250 and hooked it up. I spent hours trying to get it to work and then discovered the forum I linked to above to see that it was a faulty box. Now, I cannot utilize HD on my new TV! And, I won''t reorder a new box since it's such a hassle and I'm waiting for them to admit there was a problem and they have fixed it.

As all TIVO users, I cannot bear the thought of moving to a "ordinary" DVR without TIVO. It just doesn't have all the features like Season Pass and others.

To make matters worse, get a load of this! I am one of the former Pegasus customers that DTV sweet-talked into switching to them for better service. Now, I find that all former Pegasus customers cannot order a PPV movie through the remote or over the computer like regular DTV customers! I can only call to order and the hold time is often nearly an hour. There is no ETA on when this will be fixed and the CSR supervisor told me that corporate is in no hurry to fix this--they are too busy stealing Pegasus customers.

I hope you can use this in your column.


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## mfleming

Dvorak just responded to me with a "very interesting..."


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## f2k

Given the failure rate, it sounds to me like I shouldn't even consider upgrading the hard drive or modding the software on a HD unit for fear of invalidating the warranty. No HD HMO for me, I guess.


----------



## cocoon

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> *
> To make matters worse, get a load of this! I am one of the former Pegasus customers. There is no ETA on when this will be fixed and the CSR supervisor told me that corporate is in no hurry to fix this--they are too busy stealing Pegasus customers.
> 
> *


Good letter to him other then the Pegasus part I would of just left that part out. I was former Pegasus customer. I have never been with more rude "customer service". They actually yelled at me on the phone and then when I asked for supervisor they just pulled the nasal trick to alter their voice.

I'm not praising DirecTV they are totaly incompetent in my view. I had ordered DirecTV from their 800# in June 2004. I was sure I wouldn't have to deal with Pegasus. On day of install after everything is setup the last step remaining is to get the machines activated they say its in Pegasus area. After an hour on the phone they just cancel the order and tell the installers to leave the equipment. The installers where angry of course because they don't get paid. It was extremely frustrating but at least I got free triple LNB dish and samsung DirecTiVo and no locked in contract. From all of that one would of been led to believe it was DirecTV going bankrupt not Pegasus.

All that said DirecTV is not "stealing" Pegasus customers. On August 27 DirecTV completed the purchase of Pegasus assets.

Would I like to switch to Dish or Voom absolutely if they had Tivo I would do that immediately!

--
3 defective HD DirecTivo and counting


----------



## wh0re

Had my second in less then a week fail last night. Yay for Hughes and DirecTV!!! Yay!!!

****S ME RUNNIN


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## Fangarr

I received my HD TiVo on Friday, hooked it up via HDMI and all seemed good, I thought I got lucky.

Saturday AM I turn on the TV and I have snow. Pressed Standby and got it all cleared up.

Saturday PM turn on TV and picture is black, Standby button/Remote/Front Panel do nothing. Pull plug on TiVo, and all comes back up fine.

Sunday AM, black picture again, pull plug again, and I start experimenting with the order that devices turn on to see it is maybe a sync problem.

Monday AM black picture, pull plug to get a picture.

Monday PM, green tinted picture.

Monday PM - returned to store. They offered me a replacment unit and I declined. I refuse to spend money on this box until this problem is fixed. DirecTV also said to me that had not heard of the problem, which is obviously BS.

Fangarr


----------



## mfleming

Tivo and Netflix have a new agrement to deliver on demand movies to Tivo boxes. Does anyone know if the HR10-250 will work with this or will we have to wait for yet another box?


----------



## f2k

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> *Tivo and Netflix have a new agrement to deliver on demand movies to Tivo boxes. Does anyone know if the HR10-250 will work with this or will we have to wait for yet another box? *


Your HR10-250 is a DirecTV box, not a Tivo box. The HMO and TivoOS 4.0 strategies of Tivo and and DirecTV have been very different. It's highly unlikely this feature will make it to DirecTivos.

Of course, the nice thing for DirecTV would be relying on spare, off-peak satellite bandwidth to download your movie to you, rather than relying on a broadband internet connection.


----------



## Larry Chanin

Hi,

I'm new to DIRECTV TiVo, but yesterday as I was browsing through the various options I noticed that DIRECTV was advertising a Starz on Demand option. I believe it was listed under their showcase screen menu. It appears to be just standard definition programming.

Larry


----------



## milo2

Darn it. HDTivo #3 (Mexico, July 17), which appears to be a refurb unit from the condition of the TiVo and the remote's packaging, arrived with HDMI in early failure. I don't have time to arrange yet another swap with DirecTV, and at least this one generates a clean signal if just the right pressure is put on the jack.

Stay tuned for more adventures.


----------



## VicF

Just bought my unit, Mexico, on Monday from BestBuy. Use component connection and am very happy with the unit. This after my 3.8 year old Toshiba DST-3000 lost several transponders worth of signal.

But can you believe the one thing my wife says is, where's the Caller ID ?


----------



## Slardybardfast

Well, my 3rd hr10-250 just arrived and it is hooked up and running fine on the HDMI output. My first 2 units were DOA on the HDMI. IMHO, the HDMI problem is not due to TV imcompatibility.

I tried to switch the hard drives but I get error message #51 and instructions to call DirecTV, which I will not do. Has anyone had success transplanting the HD from one unit to another?

FYI, my TV is the Sony KP57WV700 57 inch purchased 2 years ago....beautiful performer. HDTV is awesome. 

I can no longer watch TV without TIVO or ReplayTV. The amount of time that commercials consume is unbelieveable. I begin to watch a Football game 45 minutes after it's start and usually finish watching live, i.e. I saved 45 minutes of my valuable time.


----------



## odys

Just received my third unit and it looks like it's working fine through HDMI, unlike my second one which was DOA. It looks like a new unit, like the supervisor on the phone promised me. We'll see how long it lasts. First one lasted about a month and a half. All three from Mexico.


----------



## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by Slardybardfast _
> *I tried to switch the hard drives but I get error message #51 and instructions to call DirecTV, which I will not do. Has anyone had success transplanting the HD from one unit to another?*


You can't. You need to do a clear and delete everything if you restore from one Tivo to another (which is effectively what you've done with swapping hard drives). The HD is soft-coded to the receiver S/N.

Now, if you modified the box, decrypted and extracted the content, you could have put it back on the new box. But it's too late now.


----------



## lemondjeff

I purchased my HD-TiVo from Circuit City's online store. I already had a DVI cable running from my Panasonic TH-50PHD6 50" plasma through my built-in custom cabinet. It would have been a real hassle to run the TiVo's HDMI to DVI cable, so I ordered a DVI female-to-female gender changer. When it arrived, I hooked up the TiVo's cable to my existing DVI cable, and got no picture.

My local CC said I would need to return my existing unit to them and order a new one off their web site. I didn't want to be without a TiVo in the meantime, so I ordered another unit and had it FedExed to make sure I still had a chance to return the old one within 30 days.

It arrived today. I just unpacked the new unit and its power cord, and used the old TiVo's HDMI to DVI cable. I plugged it in, and got a picture right away. So, it's definitely not a cable issue.

The TiVo went through its boot sequence, then the picture disappeared. It booted up out of the box in 480i, so I switched the resolution using the button on the front panel. I got a picture again at 480p, 780p, and 1080i (it was at the setup screen). Also, the picture wasn't very clean, especially at 780p, I see a lot of pink snow.

I guess I'll return my first unit to CC, but I'm still pretty worried. Since this isn't really an exchange (since I had to buy a new unit first), I'm hoping my 30 day return window is reset. CC does say in their return policy that they reserve the right to limit the number of returns. What a hassle...


----------



## Jupiterhead

Just opened mine and the HDMI is DOA. I don't see where it indicates the country of manufacture. It was made 8/4/4

My TV is a Sony KV34XBR800 - my Samsung DVD has been using the DVI input on the TV with no problems......... now I am trying to decide if I should wait before I get it replaced - (by wait, I mean more than the 45 mins I waited on hold last night to DTV!!!)


----------



## mfleming

Is there not even one official word from DTV or Hughes yet on this fiasco?

I hope Dvorak uses my tip and publicly rips them a new one.


----------



## chip13

Can someone make an educated guess at the failure rate of these things? I would like to know that before I buy one.


----------



## vonzoog

chip13,

Take a look at the poll at the top of this page. Of course this is only people that read this forum, however, it can't be any less accurate than the polls used to tell us who to vote for.


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## odys

As other people have mentioned earlier, the poll results are not perfect. I voted initially that I had No Failure. Well, I did eventually fail after the 2 weeks stated and I've had HDMI failure with a replacement too. So if I could change my vote, I'd be at Had Failure on More Than One Unit Made in Mexico.


----------



## chip13

I have the impression from reading everything on this site that there are massive problems with the HD Tivo. Am I mistaken?

I have a T60 and an HD receiver both hooked up to my high def tv, so as it stands now I can watch high definition and record SD. I'd rather not dump this system for an HD tivo if it is just going to break.


----------



## BarneyGoogle

as of this post there have been 711 votes, 200 people don't know if their HDMI works, of the 511 that do know there is greater than 30% failure rate

I didn't vote because no choice for "failed, don't know where it's made"


----------



## odys

> _Originally posted by chip13 _
> *I have the impression from reading everything on this site that there are massive problems with the HD Tivo. Am I mistaken?
> 
> I have a T60 and an HD receiver both hooked up to my high def tv, so as it stands now I can watch high definition and record SD. I'd rather not dump this system for an HD tivo if it is just going to break. *


I wouldn't say "massive problems." The problems on this thread, and the only problems I've had, have been specifically with the HDMI port failing. The unit still worked fine with the component cables, and actually looked fine too. I would just prefer to use the HDMI connection rather than the component connection.


----------



## gmfbts

I ordered mine online from CC less than a week ago. HDMI dead since day one. Component works fine. Unit assembled in Mexico. Tried most of the fixes in this thread, never seen anything on the HDMI to DVI cable except a black screen. Called Direct TV, was told to call CC for a replacement. Called CC and was told to take it back to the store for a replacement. When I told the rep that this unit is only available online I was told that I had to send it back and they would either repair or replace unit. 

When I asked about sending me a new unit first and then I would send back the bad unit, I was told that CC would not do this. 

I am going to the local CC this weekend to see if they can get me a replacement without having to first send mine back. I may send the unit back for credit.

Component connection looks great in HD, does HDMI look much better? I have nothing to compare to.


----------



## AbMagFab

Depends on your TV. On my LCD RP (Sony GWIII 50"), the DVI looks a little sharper, but it's barely noticable. I could only confirm it on the HDnet test pattern.


----------



## Robert L

> _Originally posted by gmfbts _
> *I ordered mine online from CC less than a week ago. HDMI dead since day one. Component works fine. Unit assembled in Mexico. Tried most of the fixes in this thread, never seen anything on the HDMI to DVI cable except a black screen. Called Direct TV, was told to call CC for a replacement. Called CC and was told to take it back to the store for a replacement. When I told the rep that this unit is only available online I was told that I had to send it back and they would either repair or replace unit.
> 
> When I asked about sending me a new unit first and then I would send back the bad unit, I was told that CC would not do this.
> 
> I am going to the local CC this weekend to see if they can get me a replacement without having to first send mine back. I may send the unit back for credit.
> 
> Component connection looks great in HD, does HDMI look much better? I have nothing to compare to. *


Well, you can take it back to the store for a refund, instead of sending it back, but you probably know that. Some CC stores do actually have them, but I guess most don't.

I received two DOA, HDMI outputs units from CC. I just returned both to my local store then reordered. No, it wasn't fun but thats the way it goes sometimes.

Mine is hooked to a Infocus PJ, and the HDMI is some better than component.


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## BarneyGoogle

definitely return the unit to CC -- not for exchange

When you purchase a new unit from them -- be sure to get the extended protection plan -- it's a minor investment for an item known to fail after 30 days of use

with the plan if the unit fails you don't send yours back until you receive a new one


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Depends on your TV. On my LCD RP (Sony GWIII 50"), the DVI looks a little sharper, but it's barely noticable. I could only confirm it on the HDnet test pattern. *


 Looks like it is not that big of the deal if you have a good TV. I have a Sony 42 inch plasma and the quality difference is minuscule. However the picture is noticeably darker. I tried to up the brightness and it looks pretty good. But than my SAT-T60 looks too bright. So I guess if it comes down to not having HD TV or using the component I will definitely choose ........... drum roll ........ the component. For now it is 6 weeks since my fix and don't see any signs of failing knocking on wood (I repeat "no signs of failing" 100 times before I go to bad every night so one day I will believe it too).


----------



## robnalex

> _Originally posted by chip13 _
> *I have the impression from reading everything on this site that there are massive problems with the HD Tivo. Am I mistaken?
> 
> *


 Yes, you are mistaken.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *Yes, you are mistaken. *


 The HDMI failure rate is very high and a lot of us do not have logos. The rest is minuscule. It is a small price to pay for being an early adopter. Most of the other problems related to problems with outdated TV's and Amplifiers. My friend for instance had all kinds of audio dropout problems but after he got a replacement with the same problem he brought his TiVo over and it run on my Sony 7.1 receiver just fine. Long story short he struck a great deal at CC and bought a Sony 6.1 receiver for $250 and never had audio dropouts ever since.


----------



## Slardybardfast

On my third try, I got a working HMDI HR10-250. I ordered a new one (#3) from CC-online and only then did I take the old one (#2) back to the local CC store. No wait, no doing without. As of now (3 days) my HDMI output is working fine. There is a definite improvement in picture with the digital output to my Sony KP57WV700, over the component outputs. Don't let anyone tell you that the component is as good. Use the HDMI TV input, if you have one.

HDTV is awesome!


----------



## Slardybardfast

> _Originally posted by chip13 _
> *I have the impression from reading everything on this site that there are massive problems with the HD Tivo. Am I mistaken?
> 
> I have a T60 and an HD receiver both hooked up to my high def tv, so as it stands now I can watch high definition and record SD. I'd rather not dump this system for an HD tivo if it is just going to break. *


IMHO, 20 to 30% failure rate is MASSIVE! I have a background in manufacturing and this failure rate will kill a company's profits in no time. Typical electronic product failure rates are below 1% by one or 2 orders of magnitude.

You may still wish to get involved, as I did, because of the CC return policy. The only thing it will cost you to get replacements is:

1. about 2 hours of your time, each time, to set up the unit ( installation, setup with DirecTV, Sat. channels, OTA channels, favorites, etc.) This is a nuisance.
2. shipping costs, if you get faster than normal shipping. The first 2 units I ordered with 2 day delivery. The third unit I ordered with free shipping.
3. whatever time it takes you to return to a local CC store. Hopefully, you will have one nearby. Otherwise, you will have to wait between your shipment and the return shipment. As far a I know, they are not sending out replacements before they receive the defective unit.

Of course, you could utilize the component output (lose some resolution) and wait out the issue. I recommend the CC 5 year service plan for $89.95.
If you do not have a digital input to your TV, then by all means, buy now.

I can no longer bear to watch TV any more without a DVR which allows me to skip commercials. That is why I decided to get the only HDTV TIVO type Satellite receiver available in the US today.


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## whitman

Got my 10-250 two days ago shipped from Best Buy. HDMI never worked. Gave a bizzare pixelated appearence to all images displayed. Composite worked great. Displayed all OTA HD local Philly Channels except FOX.

Tech was out Saturday to set up the new dish. Box could not receive the HD channels (failed on setup) despite the reporting of strong signals at 101, 110 and 119. This box can only display the SD channels unless it is an OTA HD channel. 

So, new box assembled in Mexico that failed in two ways right out of the box- the HDMI port was bad and with the internal processing of all the satellite HD channels was broken.


----------



## mfleming

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *Yes, you are mistaken. *


No, he is not mistaken.


----------



## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> *No, he is not mistaken. *


Yes he is. To infinity! *covers ears* I can't hear you!


----------



## wh0re

Well, I'm now on my 4th receiver. It seems to be fine so far, I'm crossing my fingers


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## davidwfx

My first HDTivo worked fine for a few months until the hard drive died, got them to ship me a new unit and... surprise! No HDMI. Spent around 2-3 hours on hold combined tonight to talk to the service reps and they couldn't find anything. Had me hang up with them to do a daily call and was never able to get through again. 

Also had the error #51 and had to do the clear everything trick (running now, not sure if it will fix it). Maybe they took a unit that was returned with a bad HDMI port, stuck a new hard drive in it, and shipped it to me? 

I have been very unimpressed with the quality of the customer service and the boxes, especially considering the absurdly high cost.

-David


----------



## Starrbuck

My first HR10-250's HDMI port was noticeably less crisp than its component output. My replacement arrived Friday, and after installing, its HDMI seems as clear as the component, so we are happy. It has been running for about 24 hours now and seems to be stable. As an added bonus, I now have logos where I didn't before.


----------



## Starrbuck

> _Originally posted by Slardybardfast _
> *There is a definite improvement in picture with the digital output to my Sony KP57WV700, over the component outputs. Don't let anyone tell you that the component is as good. Use the HDMI TV input, if you have one.*


 In reality, it depends on the TV. Some may have better pictures on the component than the HDMI or DVI. In general, RPTVs will look better using component and plasma or DLPs should look better using HDMI or DVI. You should always try to use the HDMI output of the HR10-250 if you have a DLP or plasma, and should worry less about it if you only have a RPTV.


----------



## davidwfx

yep, finally got through to a tech who agreed that my replacement Tivo is DOA... The error #51 didn't go away after clearing everything and the HDMI is still busted. Said he would send me a "new" unit. Only 25 minutes on hold this morning, too.


----------



## Slardybardfast

> _Originally posted by Starrbuck _
> *My first HR10-250's HDMI port was noticeably less crisp than its component output. My replacement arrived Friday, and after installing, its HDMI seems as clear as the component, so we are happy. It has been running for about 24 hours now and seems to be stable. As an added bonus, I now have logos where I didn't before. *


What are the "logos' that are mentioned throughout this forum?


----------



## AbMagFab

Channel logos - they show up on the right side of the Now Playing list, and on the top banner when watching a program.

For some odd reason, HD Tivo's don't get logos once they disappear. Most regular D-Tivo's get logos shortly after a clear and delete.


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## Boddington's

Ok Rapid came through,
But with a bad HDMI 
Mine was kind of color negative 
Great CSR knew all about the problem and sent a replacement out as we spoke.
Arrived in two days and........................................
Bad HDMI this time pink screen and will work if jiglle the cable but will always revert back to pink if I power off my tv. (panny edtv 37")
Think I'll keep this one with CC's for 6 months then try again.


----------



## TriscuiT

I have one of the new JVC D-ILA TVs (52"). The HDMI on my HR10-250 works fine once I reboot it. As others with the JVC have reported, once the JVC has been off for a period of time (over night) when you next turn on the TV you get either no picture, snow/green/pink alternating background, or some combination of the two. Additionally, in this state I am unable to change the format of the output of the HDTiVo with the remote or even when pressing the button on the front of the unit. The HDTiVo is completely non-responsive. Once I unplug/re-plug it and it boots I have gloriously beautiful HDTV. Can others with a JVC TV comment on this? Are you unable to change the output format using the front button or remote? Has anyone gotten this "repair" that was alluded to in an earlier post?


----------



## aenea

I have the same problem with my JVC. My local service center is tracking down the part for me. Someone in this thread reports getting the fix, and someone else is supposed to get it today (9/13).

I gave up on HDMI until I get the fix because of the frequent reboots required and switched to using component.


----------



## mfleming

Incredibly, on another topic in this forum I started to ask if there is any official word from DTV on this problem, and where I mentioned this poll, they are all calling us a bunch of whiners because there is no big problem!


----------



## STR3T

Bought an "open box" HD TIVO this weekend at 10% off...

HDMI to DVI would not work...only got Component output to work one time.

On the phone w/ DTV tech support for about 1.5 hours cycling through connections. Only one that worked consistently was S-Video 480i.

Ultimate will take it back and replace w/ a new unit at the same price, which is cool.

This w/ 56" Tantus DLP.

Just found this thread but did not get Born on Date/Place prior to boxing it back up for return...did not cast vote per this reason and "open box" nature. Will vote on replacement unit.


----------



## jdc

Thanks guys for this forum. I bought my first HR10-250 from Best Buy on 9/6. When I got home I was very discouraged to find that I could only get component out to work. I returned the unit to Best Buy and received another unit. Same thing. I decided to do a little Internet searching and discovered this forum. I called D* technical support and mentioned "HDMI card failure". Rep asked me a few questioned and said he would send me a replacement unit 2-day FedEx. Received the new unit last night. It works!!

Now Ive got to see if I can get Best Buy to change the serial number on the 4-year extended service contract that I got from them.

So far  so good.

PS

I am truly surprised by the lack to good quality control on the production of these high $$$$ units.


----------



## videoholic

It took me three tries as well, but I now have HDMI running smoothly on my system. Fingers crossed it stays that way.


----------



## BryanCPA

My HD tivo freezes whenever I change the output resolution. I have the tivo connected using HDMI to a Sanyo Z2 via DVI. I have to reboot to restore the tivo to normal. I don't have this problem via component, only via HDMI. All other aspects of the HD tivo work fine. I'm not sure if this is a bad HDMI port due to the fact that the picture itself is fine, it's just a lock up issue on the resolution change. Possibly this is a handshake issue with the Z2? Anyone else having any problems with connection to a Z2 or have determined that this symptom is a bad HDMI port?


----------



## pbolya

After only 4 month my HR10-250's original WD 250 hard drive started to fail! After some consideration I decided that I am not going to start the replace game and even though I have no logos, HDMI failure and now a bad hard drive I will take matters into my own hand. 

- I bought 2 more maxtor 250GB for $129 a piece at Fry's (there where WD250's for 109!!! but with $55 rebate and only 1 per family).

- After a long long weekend I am now back with a perfect unit with a lot of extra functionality.

- Since I needed to see the logs and I wanted to back up my season passes and other info I set up telnet access to the box with TiVoWebPlus(since the drive had failures the normal backup would not work and a DD resulted in an unbootable image). I used the Backup tivoweb module (thanks boygenious) to save my season passes and wish lists. I had to change the code a little bit as it died trying to process ota local channel numbers (my first ever TCL script change but surly will not be the last). 

- After restoring my backup 2 month ago (before I upgraded to 63 hours) I got telnet/tivowebplus working again and I restored the settings backed up previously. It restored 41 of the 43 season passes that I backed up. Since I do not know TCL yet I was just happy that I could make it work this much and I added the last 2 season pass in 30 seconds.

- Now for the kicker: I poked around a little bit and I found a script called dbload30 (I do not know who created it) and a slice file called logo-67.slice (logo image file). Even though it was not made for the HD Tivo the script worked and I NOW HAVE LOGOS !!!! It is an older version of the logos but it associated about 95% of the logos to the right channels. The missing ones where some of the HD D* channels like Bravo and Showtime, and some others like VH1 and a couple of others I do not use. I used tiwoveb to associate these couple of channels to the correct logo and now I have logos for all channels I use.

- And now the reason for telling this story in this thread: When I put the TiVo back together played with the HDMI card a little bit more as now I started to see discoloration (which according to previous notes a sure sign of the card failing). After investigating a little bit this is what I found: The reason why my method of wedging a piece of plastic between the pin and the card was working because it pushed the card slightly toward the back and prevented it from pushing it down a little bit. When the plastic separator was not there the pin actually hooks on the card and pushes is downward (I assume so it is tight with the mother board). Unfortunately the connector to the mother board does not like that. So I reseated the plastic piece so that the presurepoint on the connector side of the card is as high as possible but at least in the middle. The higher the pressure point the better the result. This will prevent the card from being pushed down so easily (by just touching the top of the TiVo for instance or pressure caused by the card's own weight). I tried pushing the top of the tivo or wiggle the HDMI cable a little bit and no problem! 

Now I have a working Tivo with the following:
- 64h recording capacity.
- logos (and more like tivowebplus etc)
- much less noise than the stock tivo (thanks to maxtors supper quiet drive - 2 of them makes less noise than 1 WD) 
- cooler temperature inside the box (thanks to weeknees superb bracket with extra fan).
- a working HDMI card (for the moment - although there is no guarantee that your working card does not go out faster than my fixed one unfortunately).

Regards,
Peter


----------



## grizzlyt

Got my replacement box today. So far everything works great. HDMI conection works perfect. Thanks to all those who posted earlier.


----------



## STR3T

Got a new unit tonight, Hecho en Mexico...HDMI to DVI working nicely so far. Will hold off adding to the vote for a couple weeks of use. Yeah, I'm grinning big :up:


----------



## cocoon

> _Originally posted by STR3T _
> *Got a new unit tonight, Hecho en Mexico...HDMI to DVI working nicely so far. Will hold off adding to the vote for a couple weeks of use. Yeah, I'm grinning big :up: *


Cool that you got a working one. Could you tell us the manufacture date on the unit?


----------



## STR3T

Ahh yes B.O.D: 07/24/04


----------



## sraike

New HR10-250 had HDMI port DOA. It was built 10 July 04 in Mexico.

DirecTV was nice enough about sending a new replacment but looooong wait on the phone.

HDMI port works on the replacment which was built 04 July 04 in Mexico.

This is my first TiVo unit and I'm very impressed. Plus having the digital over-the-air tuner means one less box for my HD tunerless Hi-def TV.


----------



## Rik

I am just starting to see flashes of pink. At this point it's just a few seconds at a time and not bad. Should I expect this to get worse? And if so, what can I do? I've had the unit a few months now. With the doubling of the warranty payment with a credit card gives me I should still be under warranty but I have 40 hours of programming I don't want to give up.


----------



## randallman

Received my HR10-250 this week and connected to Panasonic TH42PX25 plasma using an HDMI cable. During second day of operation screen image turned a pink contrast. After unplugging and replugging HDMI cable into the TV, the picture returned to normal. Now the problem is intermittent, but I still see pink occasionally while switching between channels.

Does changing out HR10-250 units solve the problem, or is this idiosyncrasy I will have to work around if I want to continue using HDMI interface?


----------



## unixadm

> _Originally posted by pbolya _
> *After only 4 month my HR10-250's original WD 250 hard drive started to fail! After some consideration I decided that I am not going to start the replace game and even though I have no logos, HDMI failure and now a bad hard drive I will take matters into my own hand.
> 
> - I bought 2 more maxtor 250GB for $129 a piece at Fry's (there where WD250's for 109!!! but with $55 rebate and only 1 per family).
> 
> - After a long long weekend I am now back with a perfect unit with a lot of extra functionality.
> 
> - Since I needed to see the logs and I wanted to back up my season passes and other info I set up telnet access to the box with TiVoWebPlus(since the drive had failures the normal backup would not work and a DD resulted in an unbootable image). I used the Backup tivoweb module (thanks boygenious) to save my season passes and wish lists. I had to change the code a little bit as it died trying to process ota local channel numbers (my first ever TCL script change but surly will not be the last).
> 
> - After restoring my backup 2 month ago (before I upgraded to 63 hours) I got telnet/tivowebplus working again and I restored the settings backed up previously. It restored 41 of the 43 season passes that I backed up. Since I do not know TCL yet I was just happy that I could make it work this much and I added the last 2 season pass in 30 seconds.
> 
> - Now for the kicker: I poked around a little bit and I found a script called dbload30 (I do not know who created it) and a slice file called logo-67.slice (logo image file). Even though it was not made for the HD Tivo the script worked and I NOW HAVE LOGOS !!!! It is an older version of the logos but it associated about 95% of the logos to the right channels. The missing ones where some of the HD D* channels like Bravo and Showtime, and some others like VH1 and a couple of others I do not use. I used tiwoveb to associate these couple of channels to the correct logo and now I have logos for all channels I use.
> 
> - And now the reason for telling this story in this thread: When I put the TiVo back together played with the HDMI card a little bit more as now I started to see discoloration (which according to previous notes a sure sign of the card failing). After investigating a little bit this is what I found: The reason why my method of wedging a piece of plastic between the pin and the card was working because it pushed the card slightly toward the back and prevented it from pushing it down a little bit. When the plastic separator was not there the pin actually hooks on the card and pushes is downward (I assume so it is tight with the mother board). Unfortunately the connector to the mother board does not like that. So I reseated the plastic piece so that the presurepoint on the connector side of the card is as high as possible but at least in the middle. The higher the pressure point the better the result. This will prevent the card from being pushed down so easily (by just touching the top of the TiVo for instance or pressure caused by the card's own weight). I tried pushing the top of the tivo or wiggle the HDMI cable a little bit and no problem!
> 
> Now I have a working Tivo with the following:
> - 64h recording capacity.
> - logos (and more like tivowebplus etc)
> - much less noise than the stock tivo (thanks to maxtors supper quiet drive - 2 of them makes less noise than 1 WD)
> - cooler temperature inside the box (thanks to weeknees superb bracket with extra fan).
> - a working HDMI card (for the moment - although there is no guarantee that your working card does not go out faster than my fixed one unfortunately).
> 
> Regards,
> Peter *


Peter,

Thanks for the great info.

You took the bull by the horns and resolved your problems....I commend you on that.

I, on the other hand, felt that I shouldn't be beta testing a $1000 dollar piece of equipment on my dollar. I considered opening it up when the HDMI failed, but felt it just wasn't worth it. I took mine back, got my money back and haven't purchased another yet. I will wait until there is some sort of official admission to the problem and solution to the problem before I get another. I do miss having TiVo functionality on HD content, but I can't justify the cost for something that has obvious issues.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by unixadm _
> *Peter,
> 
> Thanks for the great info.
> 
> You took the bull by the horns and resolved your problems....I commend you on that.
> 
> I, on the other hand, felt that I shouldn't be beta testing a $1000 dollar piece of equipment on my dollar. I considered opening it up when the HDMI failed, but felt it just wasn't worth it. I took mine back, got my money back and haven't purchased another yet. I will wait until there is some sort of official admission to the problem and solution to the problem before I get another. I do miss having TiVo functionality on HD content, but I can't justify the cost for something that has obvious issues. *


 unixadm,
I understand your point and everybody has to decide for themselves what works for them. Here are my reasons for doing what i did:

- I can not give up HD TiVo. I was desperately waiting for this box for 3 years and I did not even by an HD TV until they started taking pre-orders. Since we never watch TV without the TiVo buffer (hack we hardly ever watch LiveTv either we just watch from Now Playing List) it would have been a waste of money.

- After I had no problems (besides missing logos) for 2 month I upgraded the unit to 64 hours. Even though I do not condemn anybody who sends there box back after opening it unless they obviously cased the problem I felt like that if I can fix the issue I should do it myself (even if it costs me another $129 on top of the $1,000). By the way during the restore from the backup I made 2 month ago (before I initially upgraded the unit) I looked into the kernel logs and I found signs of the hard drive failing even then.

- The fall season has started and this is the busiest time for us as we evaluate every new show (watch at least the first two episodes) and decide weather we want to add it to our lineup or drop it forever. I wanted the problem to be solved within a couple of days and I need a way to record a lot of shows. Waiting for a replacement would have been risky as the failing hard drive could have stopped working all together preventing me from recording the 6-10 hour/day losing about 30-50h/week.

- As most of us in this forum I had recordings that I did not want to loose.

- I like to mess with anything electronic especially the software part and I learned a lot about both hardware and software from this exercise (I am a programmer by the way).

- I do not want to play the return game. From the posts in this forum it is obvious that there is no guaranty that the unit you are getting is working and not massed up more than the unit you are replacing (although that would be a real challenge with my unit). Even if I get a new working unit right away I would need to open it up right away to upgrade it. 30 hours do not last a week in my family.

- I usually prefer to work on something for a week instead of having to endure an hour conversation with a tier 1 customer support person that is half way to another galaxy and never even heard about NTSC yet alone HDMI.

Having sad that I realize that I am in a situation that I can help myself in this matter and I am an incredibly huge risk taker (I am no longer allowed to even mention the words stock market at home for instance). Although if it is keep going like this my wife will blacklist the word TiVo too (even if she loves it to death).

I do not think you should give up though. Sooner or later you will have a working unit and it will be much sooner if you keep returning it until you catch a good one then if you try to leave without it and wait (although you might save some money that way as by the time they fix this problem the price of the unit will definitally go down). In my opinion if you need it badly than keep returning it until you get a good one. If you don't than you probably shouldn't spent $1,000 on something you do not need (look who's talking - I buy every cool gadget that comes out).

I seriously think that they should have let other manufacturers especially Sony in on this deal. You could not break my series 1 Sony SAT-T60 D* Tivo or my Sony series 2 standalone SVR-3000 even if you try but you better not exhale in front of the huges unit.


----------



## miketech97

My HR10-250 has logos dated 21-Aug-04 Mexico and HDMI is working.
The Logos came up immediately after DirecTV verbal phone activation and before a call-in by the HR10-250 to a TIVO phone number.

My Previous HR10-250 box dated 25-Jul-04 Mexico had no logos and a working HDMI for only one week before failing (pink ghost video).


----------



## bluedog68

I finally have a working HD10-250. I first experienced an HDMI failure on my first unit 28 days after activation but 32 days after I ordered it from CC. My second unit arrived with a dead port. Now Im on my third one and Im keeping my fingers crossed.

My question is whether or not it is better to purchase the CC protection plan or the DirecTV service plan.


----------



## Alex Campbell

bought it 28 days ago at Good Guys and was using the HDMI with no problem. today, I hooked up the video out to go to a VCR and movied it slightly...no more HDMI out. Component works fine...strangely enough, I can't get the video out to work at all. And the HDMI isn't coming back. I have reset it three times today. On Monday, I will call DirecTV and hopefuly get a new one sent.

I don't see how this can be a software problem.

AC


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by Alex Campbell _
> *bought it 28 days ago at Good Guys and was using the HDMI with no problem. today, I hooked up the video out to go to a VCR and movied it slightly...no more HDMI out. Component works fine...strangely enough, I can't get the video out to work at all. And the HDMI isn't coming back. I have reset it three times today. On Monday, I will call DirecTV and hopefuly get a new one sent.
> 
> I don't see how this can be a software problem.
> 
> AC *


 It is not. A lot of the receivers has a connection problem to the mother board (mine certainly fels into that category). However if I am interpretting this right there may also be a software issue where it might not send the right HDMI data all the time causing the TV to drop the connection (Blank or snow - DOA units) . There are certainly a lot of TV's that have HDMI "software" issues and I am sure that a lot of outdated TV firmware out there which the TiVo get's blamed for.


----------



## hipreck

Bought my unit from Best Buy last night. Hooked it up via DVI to my Sammy DLP. When it came up, the initial screen was real hard to read, a snowy greenish look.

I restarted the unit and now the DVI port shows nothing, zilch. The component output works fine.

You folks are way too kind about this. For $1K these things should do the basic stuff like producing a picture! D* and Tivo should be ashamed of themselves. Very expensive doorstops.


----------



## vonzoog

"It is not. A lot of the receivers has a connection problem to the mother board (mine certainly fels into that category). However if I am interpretting this right there may also be a software issue where it might not send the right HDMI data all the time causing the TV to drop the connection (Blank or snow - DOA units) . There are certainly a lot of TV's that have HDMI "software" issues and I am sure that a lot of outdated TV firmware out there which the TiVo get's blamed for."

I have to say that I am starting to believe this statement.

I received a replacement unit yesterday from D*. The old unit would have to be rebooted everyday because of the "snowy" screen syndrome. When the new unit was started, it was DOA with HDMI connection. I thought what do I have to lose and I preformed the "pbolya" fix by opening the new unit and by pushing down and back on the HDMI card. The new unit was now operating perfectly over the HDMI connection. However, after 12 hours the "snowy" screen was back while turning on the TV. If I leave the TV on continuously, this never happens. It only happens when the TV is turned of and then back on, sometimes, but not always.

After reading where Panny owners have been informed that their problem is with the TV and a "fix" is underway by Panasonic, I now believe that there is a "handshake" breakdown between the DVR and TV's. I have a Samsung and have heard nothing about the problem being related to the Sammy TV. I still feel that the two units are not communicating with each other.

Yes there is a definite hardware problem where the HDMI card "comes loose" and has to be reseated. However, I now feel that there has to be a software issue also. Now is it my TV or DVR, or both, that is to blame? I am not sure. 

D* informed me that they are aware and are working on the problem. They are now asking people to use the component connections until a fix is found. I will keep rebooting my unit because I prefer the HDMI connection over the component. I plan to contact Samsung and to see if maybe there is a firmware issue with the TV. It seems that Panasonic is believing this to be true.


----------



## paul01463

Snip of quote [After reading where Panny owners have been informed that their problem is with the TV and a "fix" is underway by Panasonic] end snip

I missed any reference to Panasonic "fessing-up" to an issue with their displays and HDMI ports. Could you please elaborate? I'm on my third HR10-250, and each has demonstrated the pink-hued HDMI problem. I called Panasonic, and they are sending someone out to take a look at the problem on the 30th. and would like to have any pertinent information on hand.


----------



## vonzoog

paul01463,


Sorry, my bad. Maybe it was JVC or I read something over on the AVS Forum somewhere. I did find the following several pages back in this thread:

"The JVC website has a FAQ under Service and Support... here is what they say for the DILA TVs:
Q. My television shows snow, lines and sometimes no picture when I connect the TV to my set top box via HDMI.
A. There might be a compatibility issue when using certain HDMI equipped sources. To remedy this situation, a relatively simple update to the HDILA TV set is available. As the update requires installation of a component, it is highly recommended that the update be performed only by a qualified professional from a JVC authorized service center. To obtain the name of your nearest JVC HDILA authorized service center, please call (800) 252-5722 or click on the Service Center Locator tab."

My point being, I still believe that the "real" problem could very will be a software issue.

I would like to hear more thoughts on this. Should we be waiting for a D* fix or keep asking for replacement units????


----------



## hipreck

I tried the reseat the card trick todfay on the unit I bought last night. No dice. Reseating the card didn't help at all. I will say the way the card is mounted is not good, no wonder they are having all these problems.

My unit is being returned and I'll be trying another one. If that one fails I'll probably just keep it for a while and wait for D* to get a permanent fix.

Regardless, it's just pathetic that this is a problem for a $1K box. D* should be doing something for the early adopters that are hassling with this.


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by vonzoog _
> *I thought what do I have to lose and I preformed the "pbolya" fix by opening the new unit and by pushing down and back on the HDMI card. The new unit was now operating perfectly over the HDMI connection. However, after 12 hours the "snowy" screen was back while turning on the TV. *


 vonzoog, If you pushed the top of the left side of the card slightly toward the back of the TiVo and you got picture it means that it is an issue with the connection to the mother board. It is highly unlikely that this may be fixed with a software upgrade (but than who knows). My method however is to carefully wedge a plastic piece between the pin and the card. This will constantly apply light pressure to the card toward the back of the TiVo and will not let it slip back to the "dead" position. I personally used a plastic container in which the 50cent toy machine rings/toys come in that you can find in almost any shops. If you are a parent you most certainly know what I am talking about. My son conveniently stepped on one of them and it is broken in half. It is a perfect size and it curves around the pin preventing it from falling out. You can use almost anything as long as it stays in there and can take some heat without melting. It is working for me for 2 mont now. Give it a try. I have pictures of it on the HD TiVo upgrade thread (see my first post in this forum for the link).

I agree that this is ridicules. For $900 more, working years on the prototype and delivering 6 month late you would accept the the only one difference the HDMI card would work. But after I had my tantrum (several in a row I might add) I realized that it is still the best HD TiVo out there and HDMI problem or not, no new functionality or not (not even folders) it is still a very sweet machine. Just ask yourself which picture is better the component or the s-video? In fact most of us would have bought it even if they would have included just component video.


----------



## vonzoog

pbolya,

Thanks for the info.

vonzoog


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## Rik

Pbolya ... does this fix of yours also work on the occasional pink screen HDMI issue or is that something completely different?


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## kimsan

> _Originally posted by unixadm _
> *Peter,
> 
> Thanks for the great info.
> 
> You took the bull by the horns and resolved your problems....I commend you on that.
> 
> I, on the other hand, felt that I shouldn't be beta testing a $1000 dollar piece of equipment on my dollar. I considered opening it up when the HDMI failed, but felt it just wasn't worth it. I took mine back, got my money back and haven't purchased another yet. I will wait until there is some sort of official admission to the problem and solution to the problem before I get another. I do miss having TiVo functionality on HD content, but I can't justify the cost for something that has obvious issues. *


I sympathize and fully understand your position.

I just got my HD set last week, immediately discovered than HMDI/DVI was "posterized and went to component out for the evening. No telling if the failure was recent or it was HMDI DOA back in July.

Rather than start the repair/replacement wheels turning, I opted to take the pbolya approach. I opened the case, removed the screws holding the jack to the back of the case, eased tension on the springclip, and pulled the daughterboard. What a teeny little connector. I put a piece of tape on the card side of the clip, reseated the daughterboard (without closing the case), and returned the unit to the rack for testing.

Perfect HDMI output! Pulled the unit, sealed up the case, and back to the rack it went. Still perfect! It's now 4 days later and HDMI out is still fine. If it does fail again, I'll see about rigging something to generate a little downward pressure on the connector.

I suspect the card "loosening up" from the connector may be caused by the case back not being perpendicular to the motherboard. Tightening the screws to the back may be causing the daughterboard to tip *if* the back leans outward at the top.

Time will tell.


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## drjeckl

HDMI failure after 3 weeks of usage on a HR10-250 hatched in Mexico on 03-Jul-04. Moved the unit slightly and pop, it went. After reading all the good info on this thread, I popped the cover, reseated the card, put it back together and it was back!

The clip holding the card in is at a decent angle and appears to be holding the card in fairly strongly so I didnt have to rig something like pboyla or kimsan. However, soon after, the video stayed but the sound died. Did the surgical procedure again this afternoon but didnt screw in the card or the cover. By jiggling the card while the unit was on, the sound would break up and sometimes the video would go green and yellow. My set is a new Sammy HLP5063W and I connect on the HDMI port on the TV.

I have partially screwed in the card and just placed the cover on top; no screws. I need to move it around a little more when my replacement stand arrives tomorrow (first one scratched in shipping.) Maybe after its in its final place, I will batten down the hatch. It was fine for 3 weeks and then I moved it. What was I thinking??!!?? I may leave it this way until D* comes up with a permanent fix. To my eye, the difference between HDMI and component is too large to sacrifice and I dont have the time nor patience for the replacement endless loop.


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by Rik _
> *Pbolya ... does this fix of yours also work on the occasional pink screen HDMI issue or is that something completely different? *


 Rik,
When I first did the fix 2 month ago it was either a picture or not (and simetimes snow). Now when I needed to open it again to replace the hard drive and tested the card when I put it together I seen purple and green discoloration instead the snow/no picture. So in short yes it could fix that too (weather it is only temporary or maybe long term we do not know).

I also have to mention that I never took the card off from the mother board and I never messed with that connection. I simply trying to apply the presure towards where the card works.

Kimsan,
The whole problem with my card is downward preasure. When I push the card downward at the top it causes discoloration (probably one of the pin carying data for one of the 3 colors loses contact causing the other 2 to dominate) and if I push the card down at the top left it loses picture (maybe two pins are touching or some control data signal gets lost - I do not know). That is why I put a separator between the card and the pin. It prevents the pin hooking into the whole in the card an pushing it downwards. Equally important that by pushing the card slightly towards the back at a point that is higher then the middle of the card is helping me to lift the card slightly at the connector end. Also I tried pushing the card to get to best alignment and have stady picture but that demn gravity made it out of alignment again after a while. Since I added the spacer it works great.

Also every card could be different depending on whats wrong with it or how it is seated at the moment and some cards could be really DOA too. I am not kidding myself that this will work forever. If it goes wrong again I will take it appart and examine it more but also it is possible that a lot of this is just bad laborship and when they put these together day did not pay good attantion to seat the card properly and there is nothing wrong with some of these units.


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## hipreck

My second unit from Best Buy works like a charm (so far).

I see cards come loose in PCs and servers quite a bit from shipping. Those cards are installed much better (with larger connectors) than the Tivo uses. I'm really amazed that made it through engineering. They need a much better method for connecting the card to the motherboard.


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## zubinh

Ya know for some reason I thought I got one of the good ones.

Well after a month of reliable service all I wanted to do was replace the cable with a monster cable. Now I get nothing thru HDMI at all with any cable.

Spent an hour on the phone with Directv (who of course refused to believe it was a hardware issue) and they are sending me a replacement.

For those of you who have been thru this, can you tell me if I have to inform Circuit City to be protected under the extended warranty?

Thanks!


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## Rcam10

Well, like I've said before, ( an others also) the way that HDMI board is designed connecting to the main board, is a problem waiting to happen. 

Maybe some with never give a problem, who knows, but it certainly can, with that type of connector they used. I still think that was added later, toward the end after the unit had been already designed, probably because they didn't know exactly what that HDMI output would need. Thats why they made it so it could be added, which is why it plugs in. 

I mean, that actually cost more to do it that way, along with causing this connection type problem, which can happen with plug in boards. Also there are lots of connections on that plug, and they are very close together. 

I've actually seen more units lately that has this problem, some will go back to work just touching or pulling that copper strip back away from the card, while others takes much more force, like my first one in April. Also some will never act right, they always either go back blank, or do the flashing color thing, ect. 

I think it might actually take a redesign of that connection between the card and main board, to really make the problem go away. I mean there so so many small connections there, very close together, that it has to pretty much sit perfect to work right. Plus thats a extremely sensitive area around that HDMI board, and it don't take much to cause frequency problem, with pins not connecting correctly.


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by Rcam10 _
> *Well, like I've said before, ( an others also) the way that HDMI board is designed connecting to the main board, is a problem waiting to happen.
> 
> Maybe some with never give a problem, who knows, but it certainly can, with that type of connector they used. I still think that was added later, toward the end after the unit had been already designed, probably because they didn't know exactly what that HDMI output would need. Thats why they made it so it could be added, which is why it plugs in.
> 
> I mean, that actually cost more to do it that way, along with causing this connection type problem, which can happen with plug in boards. Also there are lots of connections on that plug, and they are very close together.
> 
> I've actually seen more units lately that has this problem, some will go back to work just touching or pulling that copper strip back away from the card, while others takes much more force, like my first one in April. Also some will never act right, they always either go back blank, or do the flashing color thing, ect.
> 
> I think it might actually take a redesign of that connection between the card and main board, to really make the problem go away. I mean there so so many small connections there, very close together, that it has to pretty much sit perfect to work right. Plus thats a extremely sensitive area around that HDMI board, and it don't take much to cause frequency problem, with pins not connecting correctly. *


 Exactly,
the connector is so sensitive to movement that just by moving the unit (and probably pushing the top down while holding it) may cause some pins to not touch or short each other. I think they are fixing these units and sending them out again but they do not stand a chance against shipping even if they are properly packed. Probably that is why people get 3-5 units before one works or they give up. I think once the HDMI is DOA it is pron to connection issues even if they fix it. That explains the extremely high rate of failures in replacement units. After a while I believe it will get better as these units get into those peoples hands who do not use HDMI (e.g. as a replacement unit for a dead hard drive) or people will start to fix it themselves (dangerous and not recommended but doable).

What they should do is get certified repairman to come out and fix it on the spot (take it apart and put it together) or better yet manufacture new units in the buyer's living room. Or they could just redesign the motherboard with the card built into it (although that probably will not happen as it would make it harder to upgrade or replace the card in the case of true DOA).


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## TriscuiT

I am happy to report that I need to change my Vote from "Had Failure on 1 unit - Made in Mexico" to "No failure - In service for over 2 weeks and going strong" without changing units. What I thought was bad HDMI was in fact a problem with the HR10-250 talking to my JVC HDTV. The technician came out on Monday and replaced a resistor on the TV's HDMI circuit board. Now everything is functioning the way it should be. Of course, after he made the change and put the TV back together again we were not getting ANY picture. He had to open it up again and re-seat some ribbon cables and then everything started working. I hope the rest of you find some path to a happy ending.


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## Rik

Is there anyone out there fixing this? I called Weaknees and no dice there. I'd pay to be able to overnight my unit to have it fixed and overnighted back to me. I have about 40 hours worth of recordings that I don't want to give up.
If DirecTV does provide a replacement - how long do they give you to return the old unit?


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## Starrbuck

> _Originally posted by Rik _
> *If DirecTV does provide a replacement - how long to the give you to return the old unit? *


 I was told 7 days, but it's been almost two weeks, I am still waiting on my return mailing label that they forgot to send me, and they haven't billed me for the new receiver yet.


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## Starrbuck

> _Originally posted by TriscuiT _
> *What I thought was bad HDMI was in fact a problem with the HR10-250 talking to my JVC HDTV.*


 I imagine this problem is more widespread than many people will want to admit. They'd rather blame the HR10-250.


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## iwantmyhdmitv

To pbolya and everyone else who has gone/suffered through the "initial production phase" of the HD10-250:

First of all, my user experience has been great. This is my first HD receiver, and my 5th Tivo box. HD is very addicting!

I am a chip designer, and an former electronic tech with many thousands of hours of troubleshooting experience with industrial and consumer electronics.

Here's a synopsis of my observations to this point:

1) Hooked up the box. Everything worked fine for a few weeks.

2) The HDMI output went into a failure mode which resembled the ones most often posted on this forum (flashing, color shifts, etc).

3) Once I saw the post that mentioned there was no warranty seal, I decided to go in and do my thing.

4) Re-seated the HDMI daughter card. Ran the system w/out the cover, and tapped/pressed on the card while watching the monitor. Got all the symptoms of a poor connector to the MOBO.

4) Pulled the HDMI daughter card off the MOBO. 
HELLO! Has anyone seen the red goop on the two fasteners on each side of the card ?

Has anyone seen the re-work soldering between the connector and the daughter card ?

This is pretty clear proof that the HDMI card has been re-worked, since no manufacturer wants to do extra production steps like that.

Which is perfectly fine, IF the re-work fixes the root cause. In this case, it apparently didn't. Hughes released this product to the market, and didn't have the requisite 4-6 weeks to burn-in their hardware patch.

If any of this sounds caustic, I'm sorry. Again, I really love this product, I just wanted to share my experience, and I hope that Hughes/Directv fixes the root cause within our 12 month warranty period 

Rick


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## vestaviaScott

Add another to the list. Just received my unit today (Sept 24, 2004) and my HDMI is jacked. I get green tinted posterized video. If I press on the HDMI connector the picture improves somewhat but nothing close to component.

I'll try to pull the case and reseat the card.


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## ashtangakasha

Purchased HD DirecTiVo from local vendor. HDMI had a flakey connector right out of the box. Could only get picture by pressing on plug into TiVo in a very special, magical way. Dealer replaced unit a couple days later; he had done about 30 installs, and this was first HDMI failure. Didn't record origin of first unit; current unit HDMI connector "feels" very much more solid, almost a detent on firmly inserting plug, and has worked fine since day 1 (now about 2 weeks).


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## Alex Campbell

good news..it only took three days to get my replacement HR 10-250....looked like a refurbish as the box had been opened once and the top of the box looked scuffed.

bad news...HDMI port still didn't work on the replacement

called second level customer service and got a nice woman in Alabama...didn't have to explain much...she knew about the problem and said she would send a replacement. However, she said they just keep sending out replacement after replacement and they keep coming back. I told her that if DTV would give me a credit of $700 I would keep the box and use the component out. She said that they couldn't do that and that there were certain supervisors who were refusing to send out replacements and telling people to just use the component out. She was very sympathetic and is sending out a new replacement. She told me that she wished that DTV/Tivo would get their act together because they are getting sick of dealing with this problem.

I joked around about switching to VOOM and she told me that they are sending up a new satellite in summer of 2005 for more lHD ocals and sending up two more new satellites in 2007 for even more HD programming. 

In any case, I'm getting a new box and I have a feeling the HDMI won't work on it. The CS lady said that they will keep sending me new boxes but...

I honestly can't tell the difference between component and HDMI but I would like the extra flexibility that HDMI gives me because I can plug my Xbox in to the second component in on my TV (Sony KF50WE610). And it irritates me that a very expensive product doesn't work correctly.

I am a long time DirectTV/Tivo user and I am generally very positive about their product but this sitiuation is not acceptable.

AC


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## vestaviaScott

I unscrewed the star screws and removed the top. Then unscrewed the star screws holding the HDMI jack in place. However, I could not budge the card, even with the clip removed from the card it would not unseat. There are 2 red spots of glue or something near the base of the card where it connects to the motherboard. It appears that these may be holding it tight.

Anyway, I applied some gentle pressure to the card to try to seat it better to the Motherboard. But when I powered the unit back on, the HDMI output is not even registering a signal on the TV.

Please help.


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## jlas75

I purchased my HR10-250 from Tweeter July 04. The HDMI port did not work from the minute I took it out of the box...Component works fine. I never saw what HDMI looks like so I can't even compare it to component. I have a Pioneer Elite PRO-530 HDI. 

I immediately called tweeter and ordered a replacement. Well, finally my replacement is here (3 months later) and I am picking it up today. The biggest pain in the ass is that I lose everything I recorded in HD and have to reset all my season passes (possibly for nothing!). 

From what I'm reading on this board, it sounds like nothing has been done by Hughes / TiVo / DirecTV to fix this problem...And that's not acceptable! Did either of these company's make a statement or release that they acknowledge this HDMI problem and will have it fixed?

If the HDMI it is not working correctly this time, I am going to ask for my money back and just wait till this problem is resolved or another model comes out that's better. In the meantime, I'll just have to enjoy TiVo from my Sony SAT-T60 and forget about this unit for a while. It's a shame b/c component looks great but knowing that it was sold with HDMI, and my TV is compatible with HDMI, I just can't settle for the component.


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## vestaviaScott

Can someone point me to a URL where there is an explanation (with pics preferably) of how to reseat the HDMI card???


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## rbfowler

I'm glad I read through this forum. I am a new customer for HD and Tivo, although I've had D* for years. When I got my new home theater and HR10-250, I thought it must be my HDMI cable that was bad. Now I think it must be the box. Or maybe the TV. Or maybe it really is the cable... OK, is there a quick test I can run to determine where the problem actually is? I'm getting so picture at all when I hook up the HDMI, but everything is fine through the component cables.


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## kimsan

> _Originally posted by rbfowler _
> *I'm glad I read through this forum. I am a new customer for HD and Tivo, although I've had D* for years. When I got my new home theater and HR10-250, I thought it must be my HDMI cable that was bad. Now I think it must be the box. Or maybe the TV. Or maybe it really is the cable... OK, is there a quick test I can run to determine where the problem actually is? I'm getting so picture at all when I hook up the HDMI, but everything is fine through the component cables. *


If you have component out available with the HDMI cable plugged in, that means the TiVo is not even sensing the cable. Try the HDMI-DVI cable as well. Same results (component available with HDMI cable in place) would point immediately back to the TiVo. It's spelled out plainly in the manual (once I read it  ) that HDMI cable connected disables component out. If that aspect is behaving normally and the TV has a DVI input, try that as well using the HDMI-DVI cable included with the TiVo. If that fails as well it would mean:
a. two bad cables (not bloody likely)
b. two bad inputs on the TV (almost equally unlikely)
c. bad HDMI output from the TiVo (I'd place my money on this bet)

If c is the answer, it's your call as to whether you want to peek in the case and *maybe* resolve it in a moment, or call for a replacement. Good luck either way!


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## zubinh

For those who can afford this expensive test, go out and get a DVD player with DVI output and hook it into the same input you had the HR10-250.

If you see a picture, then it definitely is the Tivo and not your cable or TV.


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## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by zubinh _
> *For those who can afford this expensive test, go out and get a DVD player with DVI output and hook it into the same input you had the HR10-250.
> 
> If you see a picture, then it definitely is the Tivo and not your cable or TV. *


Wrong. There are multiple HDMI chipsets out there, and the interaction between them and your TV can vary. Additionally, the HDCP can add another layer of complexity. Additionally, HDMI <> DVI.

Nice idea, but hardly a valid test.


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## Starrbuck

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Nice idea, but hardly a valid test. *


 It can at least prove that the port on the TV is working with other devices.


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## jimmysny

Mine was DOA. Exchanging it at the store today. I'm not optimistic.

Jim


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## AbMagFab

> _Originally posted by Starrbuck _
> *It can at least prove that the port on the TV is working with other devices. *


Which is meaningless. Take the JVC TV examples. The DVI port has a resistor problem with the chip set. It works fine with some DVI devices, but JVC has acknowledged it's broken, and won't work with other devices. They come out and add a resistor.

Just because it works with one device, and not another, doesn't mean it's the device or the TV. So all you've done is waste some of your time (and money).


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## Starrbuck

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Which is meaningless. Take the JVC TV examples. The DVI port has a resistor problem with the chip set. It works fine with some DVI devices, but JVC has acknowledged it's broken, and won't work with other devices. They come out and add a resistor.
> 
> Just because it works with one device, and not another, doesn't mean it's the device or the TV. So all you've done is waste some of your time (and money). *


 If the port didn't work with any devices, you'd eventually know it. If it did work with your first test device, you'd know a little bit more about what your compatibility problem might be.

Besides, some of us are independently wealthy and don't care about wasted time or money. But, enough about me.


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## grizzlyt

I've had my replacement box for two weeks now and everything is working perfect. I encourage people with the bad HDMI port to keep switching units until you get one that works. It's a pain but there are replacement units being sent that work.


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## jlas75

I had a good feeling my replacement HR10-250 would not work based on the posts I've read on this board. So, this time around, I decided to buy a five year warranty ($100 ) from tweeter. Well, wouldn't you know, just as suspected the HDMI port did not work on my new replacement.

The only difference this time is that I have 5 years to enjoy my "defected" HR10-250 through component video, not the 30-90 day warranty most manufacturers offer. So, I'm thinking sometime within the next year or two or three, I'll return it for a new, better box and not have to deal with this mess for now. Besides, I think component looks GREAT!

Definitely worth the $100


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## drjeckl

> _Originally posted by grizzlyt _
> *I've had my replacement box for two weeks now and everything is working perfect. I encourage people with the bad HDMI port to keep switching units until you get one that works. It's a pain but there are replacement units being sent that work. *


I really dont want to be a PITA but, how do you know the replacement units are working? Insider knowledge? Have you inspected the card/motherboard connection on your bad unit and the replacement box and noticed a difference? If there is, then maybe all of us with the bad first batch should send ours back. If not, we're still waiting for the official fix.

I'm amazed that D* has not notified the early buyers that there is a problem and it will be addressed. Sending out faulty replacement units without even testing the HDMI ports is beyond belief!. If it passed the internal QC check, then what is it? Too much bumping during the shipping? Well fix that process! My unit from BB online came via UPS in the original box, not packed in another box with packing material. What do they expect? A smooth ride?

So grizzlyt, let us know. I'll jump on the replacement loop if they truly have the problem fixed.


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## muoldaar

I guess I need to change my response to the poll now. 

I've had my HR10-250 since the beginning of May, and after 4 1/2 months, I thought I was in the clear. But my HDMI output died over the weekend.  It's probably just a coincidence, but one day after receiving the new software update, my HDMI port began failing. The first time this happenned, I wiggled the cable and got the picture back. (Of course, now I realize by wiggling the cable, I was probably affecting how the HDMI card was making contact with the motherboard.) Then a few days after that, I lost my HDMI output for good. 

It looks like I'll have to join you guys in playing HDMI replacement roulette. But I'm still concerned that even if I get a replacement unit with working HDMI, that it's just a failure waiting to happen in X # of weeks/months.


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## grizzlyt

> _Originally posted by drjeckl _
> *I really dont want to be a PITA but, how do you know the replacement units are working? Insider knowledge?
> 
> So grizzlyt, let us know. I'll jump on the replacement loop if they truly have the problem fixed. *


Sorry drjeckl, no insider information. My point was only that some replacements work, mine did as has been for two weeks. Sure, maybe it will fail a few in another week or two.

As long as the your are able to get a replacement sent without too much hassle, I would keep trying until I got one that worked like it should. The more units that get sent back with the HDMI problem, hopefully, the harder they will work to fix it. They loose money on shipping and handling on every defective unit.

If you can't easily return it and are happy with using component, that is up to you, but D* will think that they have another happy customer and the rest of us reporting the HDMI problem are in the minority.


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## drjeckl

> _Originally posted by grizzlyt _
> *
> 
> If you can't easily return it and are happy with using component, that is up to you, but D* will think that they have another happy customer and the rest of us reporting the HDMI problem are in the minority. *


This is a good point.

I have the problem of the loose connection. I have reseated the card and not secured it to the back panel. With this, the HDMI connection works. (I was not happy with component.)

But this is a temporary fix. If D* doesn't come up with a permanent fix within the 12 month warranty period, I'm sending it back and start the replacement process.

But you are right. If I don't send it back, they think I'm a happy customer. How do we remedy this? Something to think about.


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## TwinCityHDGuy

I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the same symptoms that I have. I am on my third HR10-250. The second one had no HDMI out of the box, but the first and third have had a similar subtle problem. Those two units have an oscillating, vertical, soft-edged, bar on only the 1080i outputs of both the HDMI and component outputs.

The first unit was consistently left-to-right about once a second. I thought that, perhaps, it was a shielding problem from the power supply since it seemed to be 60 cycle. But my third unit had a slightly quicker cycle, also left to right, which has now shifted (three days later) to right to left and slowed down. It also seems to have developed a slightly pinkish hue.

This symptom is very subtle and is only readily observed on a solid color subdued background. It can easily be seen when you put the unit in standby or when you try and view a channel you don't have and see the grey screen. It looks like a slight contrast, or brightness, shift that travels along the screen. It is not visible on the 720p output. It is visible on both HD and SD sources, in real-time or pause, and also on pre-recorded material.

Is it possible that it is my monitor? I have a Sony KV-34HS510 crt. Everything else looks great on it. I've had it for about a year and the Hughes is the first HD source I've been able to view.

I purchased the unit via the Internet from TVAuthority (not a great experience) and DirecTV has been replacing the unit.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.


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## sotapoppy

> _Originally posted by muoldaar _
> *I guess I need to change my response to the poll now.
> 
> I've had my HR10-250 since the beginning of May, and after 4 1/2 months, I thought I was in the clear. But my HDMI output died over the weekend.  It's probably just a coincidence, but one day after receiving the new software update, my HDMI port began failing. The first time this happenned, I wiggled the cable and got the picture back. (Of course, now I realize by wiggling the cable, I was probably affecting how the HDMI card was making contact with the motherboard.) Then a few days after that, I lost my HDMI output for good.
> 
> It looks like I'll have to join you guys in playing HDMI replacement roulette. But I'm still concerned that even if I get a replacement unit with working HDMI, that it's just a failure waiting to happen in X # of weeks/months. *


I'm not so sure it is a coincidence. My HDMI started failing the day after receiving the update also. This is my second unit. The first unit worked great for ~2 months then the HDMI port died. My second unit worked great for ~ 3 months. Then the colors began to turn red the day after the update. I was able to correct by unplugging and replugging the cable. This worked for 4 nights in a row. Each night it only occurred 1 time. Today the pic stays red so I assume the card is no longer making good contact. I will be calling for a 2nd replacement tomorrow. In my case, DVI is noticeably better than component. So I'll call every time I have a HDMI failure.


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## VicF

Had my unit for about 3 weeks; finally able to test HDMI/DVI on a sony rear projection unit. Worked right off the bat not a problem to be found


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## billsfan1

I bought my first HR10-250 last week from CC online and the HDMI port produced a color distorted image right from the start. When I first got the unit it was obvious that it was used even though I paid for a new unit. The box was a little tattered and the unit had hand prints all over it. (I suspect that the seller may be recycling failed HDMI units and maybe this is why this problem seems larger than it really is) I could not exchange the unit at a local CC store since they do not carry it in stock, so I had to work with the webstore representatives for the exchange. Initially I was told that they would replace the unit as soon as I had a UPS tracking number for the return unit. However, after mailing the unit back they then told me I had to wait a week or so for them to receive and inspect the unit before they would send me a replacement. I was not able to speed this up even after several calls to their support center. Since this unit seems to have a failure history I decided I would be better off dealing with a more responsive seller, and I asked for a refund. I then found that the local Sound Advice stores carry this unit in stock, so I picked up and installed the unit last night. It works great and I am very happy with it. The HDMI output looks much better that I was seeing from the component output. My only recommendation to anyone buying this unit is to try to find a local store that carries this in stock. That way if you do ever have any problems you can exchange it right away and deal with someone face to face instead of talking to a technical support person somewhere in India.


----------



## sotapoppy

> _Originally posted by billsfan1 _
> *...... My only recommendation to anyone buying this unit is to try to find a local store that carries this in stock. That way if you do ever have any problems you can exchange it right away and deal with someone face to face instead of talking to a technical support person somewhere in India. *


So true! I'm on hold with India right now.


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## BryanCPA

Is a Tivo lock up when changing resolutions a symptom of a bad HDMI port or a display incompatability?


----------



## AbMagFab

How do you know it's locking up?


----------



## BryanCPA

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *How do you know it's locking up? *


After I use the up arrow to change the resolution, the on-screen setting indicator (1080i, 720p ...) stays on the screen and the tivo is non responsive to any commands. I have to reboot to return the tivo to normal. I am not having any picture quality problems, just the freeze on changing the resolution. This issue does not occur when I use the component outputs.


----------



## AbMagFab

Odd. How long did you give it before giving up? What kind of TV? Might be a DHCP negotiation issue? Does it only happen when going to 720p/1080i, or to 480i/p also?


----------



## bfdhe

Add one more to the death toll. DTV sending a replacement. Only took 2 hours on the phone, 2 disconnects and 5 CSRs. The last one said" yes, we know this is a problem and are working on a permanent fix, until then, if it happens again just have us replace it"


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## BryanCPA

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *Odd. How long did you give it before giving up? What kind of TV? Might be a DHCP negotiation issue? Does it only happen when going to 720p/1080i, or to 480i/p also? *


I gave it a good 2 or 3 minutes before pulling the plug. The tivo is connencted to a Sanyo Z2 projector (it is DHCP compliant) and the lock up happens no matter which resoultion I go to or from.


----------



## MrCoolDu4

This is ridiculous. DirecTV has replaced my receiver three times with units that do not work right out of the box. I am of course talking about the dead HDMI's Its simply that this box is as expensive as it is in part to the HDMI. Without the HDMI I believe its a minimum of $250 less. I am tired of the long hold times on the phone talking to those morons. Oh that is unless they transfer me to the extension that rings and rings and rings and auto disconnects. I love that one. So now I am emailing my displeasure with this POS and I actually did receive a reply. Someone will contact me within the next two days. I can hardly wait.


----------



## bfdhe

Who did you email? I will email them too. Send me the address and please post whatever reply you get here.


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## mike_k7

I just received my second HR10-250. The first was fine for about a week, and then it looked like it was only displaying 16 colors. Got a similar story from DTV about the HDMI card not being seated correctly. Second unit didn't work at all using HDMI, works with component (as did the first one). I got mine from BestBuy, and they are only available from their Web site. So of course now I have to buy and pay for a third unit, take the first one back, wait for the new one and then take the second one back. At least the units I'm getting from BB are not used. 

FWIW - Date stamp on the first unit was Aug 7, 2004 and Aug 25, 2004 on the second. 

MrCool - if you post that email address I will gladly fire off an email as well.


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## drjeckl

yeah, MrCool, we'll bury them with emails.


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## mtolson

This is interesting. I am on my third HD tivo receiver. When I hooked this one up the HDMI-to-DVI produced what appears to be inversed or 16bit video. Upon calling DTV, I was told that it was a software issue that they were aware of and were working on. The rep told me to switch to component and to check back in a couple of weeks. Mine is dated 8/31/04.

So far, I am now on my third unit:

Unit 1 - Made April 2004. Hard drive clicked upon boot and never got to Welcome message.

Unit 2 - Made May 25, 2004. Rebooted and could never get past "Just a few more seconds" message.

Unit 3 - Made Aug. 31, 2004. HDMI/DVI show 16bit graphics right out box. Software version 3.1.5-01-2-357. 

Is DTV blowing smoke and do I now have yet another defective unit.

Marc


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## mike_k7

Marc,

My 1st unit had the 16 color problem (I don't think it was 16 bit color - it seemed to actually be only 16 colors) - it did it for the first few minutes during initial setup, then snapped to full color, and then after about a week it went back to the 16 colors. It *could* be a software issue, but it doesn't seem like it would go back and forth if it was.

When I called DTV the CSR had not heard of this problem before. It would be nice to find someone at DTV who had actual firsthand knowledge of the problem and the solution.


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## unixadm

If you look a few pages back (17, 18, 19), there are some posts that indicate that this is a hardware problem with the way the HDMI card sits in the slot of the motherboard.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2234485#post2234485

DirectTV's only solution at this time has been to swap the entire unit out with a replacement, which then may also have the same problem.

A page or 2 back, someone posted that DirectTV told them they are aware of the problem and ARE NOT swapping out any more until they resolve the issue.


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## jbs01

I've had my HR10-250 for 5 months with no problems. Today, I noticed the picture on my TV had gone to the "16 color" mode. I lightly jiggled the HDMI plug on the back of the TIVO and the picture on the TV would change to okay, to 16 color to 2 color. I unplugged and replugged the HDMI only to have the TV then report "no input" on the DVI port. Oh boy. A reboot of the Tivo and still no joy. Guess you can add me to the "failed HDMI" list.


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by unixadm _
> *If you look a few pages back (17, 18, 19), there are some posts that indicate that this is a hardware problem with the way the HDMI card sits in the slot of the motherboard.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2234485#post2234485
> 
> DirectTV's only solution at this time has been to swap the entire unit out with a replacement, which then may also have the same problem.
> 
> A page or 2 back, someone posted that DirectTV told them they are aware of the problem and ARE NOT swapping out any more until they resolve the issue. *


 Hay that's me! I am famous.

Any way I am sure that this post of my will add fuel to the fire. But here it is:

I have had it with this piece of equipment. I always knew and said it many times that most likely this fix of mine will eventually stop working. Well that time has come. The HDMI is totally dead and I am not about to take it out and investigate it further more. I am done trying to fix everything that is not working. When I run the self test half of the time it returns errors on one or more SAT or OTA tuners. This is happening from day one but ignored it as it seams to be recording fine (most of the time).

So I put the original bad hard rive in which doesn't even boot anymore and called D*. I got to level 1 pretty quick. 5 minutes later I was at level 2 explaining the same thing and 5 minutes later he forwarded me to level 3 which I was waiting for about 20 minutes. 5 minutes later I was told that a new box is on the way (35 minutes is what I was expecting anyway). When I asked the guy said he does not know about a wide spread HDMI issue. I am only the second customer he did this for. Nothing about software issue (which it is clearly not) but than again I have a bad hard drive as well so it doesn't even matter.


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## jlas75

In an attempt to try and fix the HDMI problem, I reset my HR10-250 and am now missing the "Showcases" option within the TiVo menu. 

Is anyone else experiencing this with new receivers? Does anyone know how to get it back?


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## mtolson

> _Originally posted by mtolson _
> *This is interesting. I am on my third HD tivo receiver. When I hooked this one up the HDMI-to-DVI produced what appears to be inversed or 16bit video. Upon calling DTV, I was told that it was a software issue that they were aware of and were working on. The rep told me to switch to component and to check back in a couple of weeks. Mine is dated 8/31/04.
> 
> So far, I am now on my third unit:
> 
> Unit 1 - Made April 2004. Hard drive clicked upon boot and never got to Welcome message.
> 
> Unit 2 - Made May 25, 2004. Rebooted and could never get past "Just a few more seconds" message.
> 
> Unit 3 - Made Aug. 31, 2004. HDMI/DVI show 16bit graphics right out box. Software version 3.1.5-01-2-357.
> 
> Is DTV blowing smoke and do I now have yet another defective unit.
> 
> Marc *


I took the HDMI card out of Unit 2 (which DTV never sent a return mailer, in fact I still have unit 1 as well) and placed it in Unit 3 and now Unit 3 appears for working fine on my 65" Mitsu. I would have to say they are still having hardware issues with the cards being that Unit 3 was built in late August.


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## Rcam10

Personally, ever since the first unit I received the first of April, which had a dead output, and I proceeded to "attempt" to get the output back working, its been my opinion its a messy type of problem. 

Like I posted in some thread thats long gone, I did remove the card, the main board, resoldered certain areas, look at it under magnification, ect. and that basically did nothing. They got a problem there with the connection between that card & the main board. Maybe its mostly the card, maybe its not. The signal is extremely sensitive, not to mention all that copy protection mess built in, so if it breaks connection, it goes crazy. 

Most can be made to output video if held in the perfect position, but that isn't a fix, and most times that can't even be done, because its a impossible way hold that card. 

When they decide to stop playing around an change the production line to correct the problem, then and only then will it go away.


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## zubinh

Just got my first replacement today. I was soooooo optomistic until I hooked up everything and now all I see are garbled colors and people that look like the negatives of a roll of film.

I going to call directv tomw but I dont think theyre going to help much. I think I'll send them this one back and keep my previous one hooked up with component. Luckily I did buy the Circuit City Warranty so when they get some in stock, I'll swap it thru them.

As many have complained they did not double box it nor did they include any kind of return shipping instructions or label.

I took the top off of my previous receiver but the HDMI card looks pretty tightly held to the board. If there are any last words of advice, I'd sure love to hear em.


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## MrCoolDu4

I have discovered the emails to DirecTV are pointless. Someone contacts you who's job it is to apologize for all the problems you've been experiencing. Then they transfer you to the same support extension we've been calling all along. I have kept my return slips from FedEx and the replacements are coming from Memphis, Tennessee. I am thinking that I should try calling that number ? ( Jabil Global 901-795-5300. )


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by pbolya _
> *So I put the original bad hard rive in which doesn't even boot anymore and called D*. I got to level 1 pretty quick. 5 minutes later I was at level 2 explaining the same thing and 5 minutes later he forwarded me to level 3 which I was waiting for about 20 minutes. 5 minutes later I was told that a new box is on the way (35 minutes is what I was expecting anyway). When I asked the guy said he does not know about a wide spread HDMI issue. I am only the second customer he did this for. Nothing about software issue (which it is clearly not) but than again I have a bad hard drive as well so it doesn't even matter. *


 Wow I got my replacement in 3 days. It is unbelievable how they pack this thing. They just throw it in an already worn down box with no outside packaging or foam. However I am happy to report that my replacement is working (for now at least). It is dated August 31. I will report if that changes but it is definitely worth trying to replace it if you have a bad unit.

By the way since I am returning the failed unit I took the card out and put it back removed the plastic spacer and locked the pin to the card so it secures it to the mother board and now it works again (who knows how long though).


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## Nalez

Thanks for the idea of proping the clip out.

Today I had my HR10-250 do a pink color thing on DVI. Used some cardboard to prop the clip out from the board, and HDMI works as it sould again.

Guess I will leave it that way until DTV comes up with a perminant fix.


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## Rik

There is a business opportunity here for anyone that can come up with a premium solution fix. Weaknees or any of the other folks who offer upgrade solutions. I know that I, for one, would pay to have one of these companies fix or replace my HDMI card with a premium card and return the unit to me fedex. I have about 40 hours worth of programming that I'd rather not part with in order to get on the unit swap merry-go-round.


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## kimsan

Bummer here.

Pulled my unit out of use Saturday morning and did a copy/expand to a pair of Maxtor 250gb drives. Remounted using the Twinbreeze kit from Weaknees (excellent design, all the necessary parts, a set of Torx drivers, and clear illustrated instruction!). -Tao expand took ~32 hours but came off without a hitch. Plugged the unit back in and was greeted by *NO* HDMI output. Didn't see the card or cable, so component was enabled.

Mucked around with the card and clip at lunch today and never got a stable good output. Plenty of variations on posterized and pink and static and no output and no card, but no success.

Buttoned the pup back up and reprogrammed the MX-500 macros to use component rather than DVI. Still beats the crap out of s-video or composite.

I'll join the ranks of those who wait for a *real* fix from DTV before I go for a warranty exchange. Just too much on the drives to let go on a chancy new box for now.


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## mark757

> _Originally posted by TriscuiT _
> *I am happy to report that I need to change my Vote from "Had Failure on 1 unit - Made in Mexico" to "No failure - In service for over 2 weeks and going strong" without changing units. What I thought was bad HDMI was in fact a problem with the HR10-250 talking to my JVC HDTV. The technician came out on Monday and replaced a resistor on the TV's HDMI circuit board. Now everything is functioning the way it should be. Of course, after he made the change and put the TV back together again we were not getting ANY picture. He had to open it up again and re-seat some ribbon cables and then everything started working. I hope the rest of you find some path to a happy ending. *


Techs came out and allegedly did the same fix to my JVC today (first time they performed the job). Now when I power up the DVR it starts booting but after about 60 seconds shuts down with the high operating temperature warning (blue screen). If I leave the HDMI unplugged and use the component cables everything works fine.

Anyone experience this? DVR issue or fouled up JVC fix?


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## AbMagFab

I would love to see a poll that correlated HDMI failures with people who modify their boxes on their own. Since people won't be honest, it's pointless, but I have to believe a large percentage of the HDMI failures come from people who added a drive on their own, and either knowlingly or unintentionally banged/touched the HDMI card.

Yes it's an indication it's too fragile, but maybe not as fragile if you don't modify the box at all.


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## kimsan

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *I would love to see a poll that correlated HDMI failures with people who modify their boxes on their own.  Since people won't be honest, it's pointless, but I have to believe a large percentage of the HDMI failures come from people who added a drive on their own, and either knowlingly or unintentionally banged/touched the HDMI card.
> 
> Yes it's an indication it's too fragile, but maybe not as fragile if you don't modify the box at all. *


Got my unit in July. No HDTV so no way to know if anything better than S-Video worked. Unit was unit was unopened and un mod-ed. Can't blame that on anything I did.

HL-P6063W arrived in mid September and HDMI was "posterized". Opened the case and seated the board and HDMI was fine. Unit still un mod-ed.

Added the TwinBreeze bracket and new drive this weekend. Never came near the HDMI daughterboard. No HDMI out when reinstalled and cable wasn't recognized, so Component was on.

Mucked with the card a bit yesterday. The slightest variation in pressure and position causes a wide range of failure modes. Primarily fuchsia screen with picture, limey screen with picture, a range of posterization, static, no output, and finally no cable recognized.

It's just a badly designed connector/mount. Electronic connections should be clean and precise and stable. This one seems based on the phase of the moon, sacrificing a virgin and swinging a headless chicken over your head 

Just my 2¢.


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## AbMagFab

I wonder how many people have problems with the HDMI with the new red junk on it?


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## unixadm

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *I would love to see a poll that correlated HDMI failures with people who modify their boxes on their own. Since people won't be honest, it's pointless, but I have to believe a large percentage of the HDMI failures come from people who added a drive on their own, and either knowlingly or unintentionally banged/touched the HDMI card.
> 
> Yes it's an indication it's too fragile, but maybe not as fragile if you don't modify the box at all. *


I never even opened the case......neither did most people here when I started this thread. These failures were happening pretty early in the process....before most people even thought about opening up the case. Many are coming out of the box either dead or not working properly. I am sure there are a few due to a case being open, but that wouldn't explain failures out of the box.

I know many people noticed a failure or the start of failure if they unplugged and plugged in the HDMI cable for some reason (move it in the cabinet, re-route the cable, etc. I think it is just so fragile of a connection that the pressure of pushing in on plugging the cable in or a little rough handling in shipping is enough to cause it to lose connection.


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## kimsan

> _Originally posted by unixadm _
> *I know many people noticed a failure or the start of failure if they unplugged and plugged in the HDMI cable for some reason (move it in the cabinet, re-route the cable, etc. I think it is just so fragile of a connection that the pressure of pushing in on plugging the cable in or a little rough handling in shipping is enough to cause it to lose connection. *


Yup. The 3 mounting screws support the cable connector very well in relation to the case back. Unfortunately the spring clip has a fairly wide "window" where it holds the card notch down. Down is vague and perpendicular to the main board even more so. But the real culprit is the board connector itself IMO. Those pins should mate solidly even with a slight variation in angle or depth of seating. They do not.

This cries out for a recall/retrofit with a connector that mates at least as solidly and reliably as the cable connector. And when they come out with such a fix, I'll be all over it!

Meanwhile, I'll "suffer" with component out and 90%+ HD material on *my* schedule. 

Maybe Monday (my holiday, not so for the missus) I muck with the connector one last time. Always a tinkerer


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## zubinh

Yeah well I tried tinkering with the HDMI card with the unit on and yes the picture did come back, but I was not successfully in keeping it that way. 

Anyway, while moving the card, I got a small electric shock which caused my hand jump back and I scratched my arm along side the top edge of the casing. Now I've got a 4 inch scar near my wrist.

I will not attempt it again (even with rubber gloves). I'll keep calling for a replacement until I get a working one.

Thanks Directv, you've scarred me for life.


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## silyman1

I got mine very early in the release and one died on me. Fortunately i bought it at best buy, and got their Service plan, so they just swapped it out for free, i didn't have to pay to ship it back to hughes or anything like that.


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## pbolya

> _Originally posted by silyman1 _
> *I got mine very early in the release and one died on me. Fortunately i bought it at best buy, and got their Service plan, so they just swapped it out for free, i didn't have to pay to ship it back to hughes or anything like that. *


 DirecTv pays for the shipping both ways and they send out a replacement in 3 days. On the top of it I got 6 month of HD package free (not a big value as this package sucks but still). First replacement worked (so far).


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## beardad

I had an HDMI failure shortly after my wife dropped the remote, buttons down. For some reason it went to the 480p format and I lost the picture. After unplugging the unit it defaulted back to one of the 480 modes. After it booted up and all the advisory messages went away so did the picture. I used the button on the unit to return it to the 1080i format and all is right with the world. This has happened twice. 

I still get jumps in the picture at irregular intervals as though the hard drive is changing speed, signal loss or some other interruption. 

Do I need to pack it up and get a replacement? It happens on the DirecTv HD channels and OTA HD channels. Is this a common problem?


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## ikitai

I just set-up my HR10-250 with a 30" LCD using the HDMI to DVI cable. With the box set at 720p (native) the HD content looks amazing but SD has a small ~10 pixels~ bar of noise across the top of the picture that doesn't extend into the sidebars. I tried a number of full and panel view combinations but it remains. 

Two things solve this problem
1. Using component...
2. Using Zoom on the SD channels.

Is this a sign of impending HDMI failure or am I missing some other more obvious problem/solution. I'd like to stick with the DVI if it can work. My next step is to go back to BB and try another unit, but it is a long drive and I don't want to bother if there is another solution.

Thanks


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## Frank Buitre

I just received mine today and the HDMI port worked for like 10 minutes, then died.

They are sending a replacement unit this week.

It was Made in Mexico August 2004.


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## Rik

> _Originally posted by ikitai _
> *I just set-up my HR10-250 with a 30" LCD using the HDMI to DVI cable. With the box set at 720p (native) the HD content looks amazing but SD has a small ~10 pixels~ bar of noise across the top of the picture that doesn't extend into the sidebars. I tried a number of full and panel view combinations but it remains.
> 
> Two things solve this problem
> 1. Using component...
> 2. Using Zoom on the SD channels.
> 
> Is this a sign of impending HDMI failure or am I missing some other more obvious problem/solution. I'd like to stick with the DVI if it can work. My next step is to go back to BB and try another unit, but it is a long drive and I don't want to bother if there is another solution.
> 
> Thanks *


I actually experience a similar issue but on 720p only. My small bar of noise appears as a sort of bend in the picture across the top of the screen. Someone in one of my forums suggested that it might be an overscan issue with my set on 720p.


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## tkentish2001

If I do NOT have HDMI on my Toshiba 65" -- is this the unit for me? 

Seriously, I just read all of the pages in this thread - took me 1.5 hours during lunch, but I 'm thinking this unit as a whole may just be a lemon until they work out more details and supply better hardware.

What would everyone do in my case -- as I have NO HDMI input.

Thanks in advance...

TOm


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by tkentish2001 _
> *If I do NOT have HDMI on my Toshiba 65" -- is this the unit for me?
> 
> Seriously, I just read all of the pages in this thread - took me 1.5 hours during lunch, but I 'm thinking this unit as a whole may just be a lemon until they work out more details and supply better hardware.
> 
> What would everyone do in my case -- as I have NO HDMI input.
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> TOm *


 As you noticed in here the HDMI is the main problem here. If you do not need to use it than do not even think about it twice. This is the unit for you (provided your TV is HD ready). The picture through component still looks amazing and most of all problem free.


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## sotapoppy

> _Originally posted by tkentish2001 _
> *If I do NOT have HDMI on my Toshiba 65" -- is this the unit for me?
> 
> Seriously, I just read all of the pages in this thread - took me 1.5 hours during lunch, but I 'm thinking this unit as a whole may just be a lemon until they work out more details and supply better hardware.
> 
> What would everyone do in my case -- as I have NO HDMI input.
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> TOm *


IMHO component hookup renders an excellent picture on my setup. HDMI to DVI is even noticeably better on my set. If you have no DVI input on your tv then this thread is not too meaningful to you unless you plan to replace your tv. However, you said your tv has no HDMI input. Did you mean to say it has no DVI input?

I'm on my 3rd unit. The HDMI port failed in the first two units. Aside from that, I had no problems with any of the units. I would not consider it a lemon aside from the HDMI card.


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## tkentish2001

I believe I only have component input, no DVI or HDMI. Hope I'm explaining that correctly. You guys are out of my league technically.


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## thejdj

No output right out of the box. I was able to get a little bit of scrambled picture by pushing on the HDMI module. Since I've also been dealing with the searching for sat... problem, I requested a replacement. I'll try it again in 2-5 days.


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## Alex Campbell

Recieved my third box yesterday...born in Mexico in July 2004. 

HDMI is working fine. for how long is the question. 

one thing I have noticed is that, in my opinion, SD channels looked better when I was hooked up thru component. too bad you can't output both.

AC

ps. the biggest pain in the ass is setting up all my season passes, wish lists, etc. not to mention all the content I lost when I had to return my last box. I don't think I will be switching boxes again, regardless of what happens with the HDMi port


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## MikeGst

HDMI dead straight from the box, but VE is replacing. A pretty discouraging experience for a $1K box


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## cocoon

I don't want to jinx myself but I think I finally got a working HDTivo. Unlike all the previous units it pauses slightly while it syncs HDMI output. None of the previous units did that. I must say though it did fail to do that a couple times before the "3.1.5.d" software update but since the update been working 100%. This one was made in Mexico September 3 2004.

This was was my 5th or 6th unit I might have lost one of the fedex slips heh. I had given up hope quite frankly as the last 2 units they sent me were less then pleasing. One arrived with satellite input 2 dented which means someone had to have dropped it hard or worse and the other one arrived with grease marks all over it. 

To answer a general question I have never opened up any of the HDTivo as I wanted to make sure I got a working one first and I am unsure of my skills to perform surgery on these machines.

To recap my equipment I have been using these machines with a Toshiba 46H84 TV.

--
hoping I finally got a working HD Tivo...


----------



## breevesdc

> I don't want to jinx myself but I think I finally got a working HDTivo. Unlike all the previous units it pauses slightly while it syncs HDMI output. None of the previous units did that. I must say though it did fail to do that a couple times before the "3.1.5.d" software update but since the update been working 100%. This one was made in Mexico September 3 2004.


Hello. This may be a dumb question but...

I'm a ReplayTV user. I've been planning to make the switch ever since the HD Tivo came out. But I've resisted given the HDMI problem. Now that the HDMI problem *may* be solved, I'm curious... What's the best way to buy an HD Tivo to assure that it comes from the most recently built models. I don't want one that has been sitting on a Best Buy shelf for 30 days. I want one hot off the assembly line so that it has (what may be) the HDMI permanent fix. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Brian


----------



## tkentish2001

I will echo the same question Brian asked.


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## kimsan

> _Originally posted by breevesdc _
> *Hello. This may be a dumb question but...
> 
> I'm a ReplayTV user. I've been planning to make the switch ever since the HD Tivo came out. But I've resisted given the HDMI problem. Now that the HDMI problem *may* be solved, I'm curious... What's the best way to buy an HD Tivo to assure that it comes from the most recently built models. I don't want one that has been sitting on a Best Buy shelf for 30 days. I want one hot off the assembly line so that it has (what may be) the HDMI permanent fix. Any thoughts? Thanks.
> 
> Brian *


You might want to consider Value Electronics. They are a sponsor of the forum and aside from the pre-order/backorder fiasco which had them scrambling just to try and keep up with demand, they've been very highly respected by many in the forum for price and service.

TVAuthority would be another place to try. They're a sponsor over in the AVSforum.

Whoever you choose, talk to someone *live* and make certain their defect return program will get you a replacement *if* there's a failure. Maybe they can even check the date ofr you prior to shipping.


----------



## mayall

I've had two out-of-the-box HDMI failures. Both units were new upgraded units from WeaKnees.

The WeaKnees folks have been great! They swapped the units within 3 days no questions asked.

The third unit has working HDMI but I'm very disappointed with the quality compared to component. The picture is washed out. It has poor contrast and there's lots of black noise. If I pause a picture that has black bars on the top and bottom, the bars are full of splotches.

I'm using a new Panasonic 50" plasma monitor. The Panasonic's quality is stunning.

I'm very puzzled how the quality of the HDMI can be so poor. I had hooked a PC to the plasma's DVI and the picture looked perfect.


----------



## AJ500

Well, I need to change my vote from a couple of months ago. Today, I got the pink screen and no amount of power cycling, format change, or ratio button fixes it.

Unit installed since June and made in Mexico.

I note that it has the 3.1.5d software, but don't know when that update was installed.

Looks like I'll be switching over to component or going through the replacement lottery. I'd sure like to have a sure-fire fix before swapping the unit out.


----------



## TSpoonEars

Mine died tonight too after 6 weeks. Pink screen and horrible colour banding. Strangely component video is dead too - I get the odd video line on the screen and that's it. S-video still works.

Looks like I'm off to Best Buy tomorrow to take advantage of the Extended Warranty I bought.

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## AJ500

UPDATE: Today, I got to the back of the equipment rack and jiggled the HDMI cable at its connector on the back of the HR10-250.

The picture changed as the cable was jiggled (pink stripes and splotches). I was able to find a sweet spot where the picture was normal. But, I doubt that I can keep it there since it seems to be very sensitive.

So, just one more opinion that there's a design problem with the connector/card/board interface. Why is it taking so long for the manufacturer to resolve this problem?


----------



## Rik

> _Originally posted by AJ500 _
> *
> So, just one more opinion that there's a design problem with the connector/card/board interface. Why is it taking so long for the manufacturer to resolve this problem? *


So far - DirecTV tech support has been reluctant to answer this question / issue and in some cases don't even recognize it as an issue. 
I think we need to start a letter writing and telephone calling campaign to the top executives within DirecTV. In my prior experiences (with DirecTV and others) phone calls to the top are usually addressed - not necessarily by the top but usually by someone nearby or someone in customer relations. I work for a business information company and would be happy to get some names if I can get some volunteers of folks that will pursue this avenue. We need a good effort if we are to get some action - or at least an explanation and a status report.


----------



## MrBigglesworth

I just got a replacement because my first one died with the 3.1.5.d update but its HDMI was perfect.

The replacement unit was pretty much DOA, I had a few seconds of purple, digital posterization artifacts then nothing. Can't get anything out of it now.

Unit was made on Sept 5, 04.


----------



## robnalex

Not long ago someone posted here that D* told him they were not replacing any more HR10-250s with bad HDMI until the issue was fixed. Is that still the policy, or are they still replacing them?


----------



## robnalex

> _Originally posted by mayall _
> *I've had two out-of-the-box HDMI failures. Both units were new upgraded units from WeaKnees.
> 
> The WeaKnees folks have been great! They swapped the units within 3 days no questions asked.
> 
> The third unit has working HDMI but I'm very disappointed with the quality compared to component. The picture is washed out. It has poor contrast and there's lots of black noise. If I pause a picture that has black bars on the top and bottom, the bars are full of splotches.
> 
> I'm using a new Panasonic 50" plasma monitor. The Panasonic's quality is stunning.
> 
> I'm very puzzled how the quality of the HDMI can be so poor. I had hooked a PC to the plasma's DVI and the picture looked perfect. *


 My 50" Panny Plasma behaves similarly with HDMI. Much better PQ with component.


----------



## dmyers

HDMI failed right out of the box and component hookups had inferior picture.
Made in Mexico on Sept. 3, 2004
Took back to store for refund and got back a Samsung HD sir-ts360 without TVO. Bought it on October 9, 2004 and returned it on October 10, 2004. This was the DirectV HD DVR Model HR10-250. At a $1,000 not a good value. Could not settle for the inferior picture.:down:


----------



## pbolya

> _Originally posted by robnalex _
> *Not long ago someone posted here that D* told him they were not replacing any more HR10-250s with bad HDMI until the issue was fixed. Is that still the policy, or are they still replacing them? *


 They replaced mine.


----------



## Registered

For Rik and others interested in trying to get D* brass' attention on the HDMI problem -- here's some contact info:

Mitch Stern, President & CEO
DIRECTV, Inc.
2230 E. Imperial Highway
El Segundo, CA 90245

Main phone: (310) 957-0000
Main fax: (310) 964-5000

Chase Carey, President & CEO, The DIRECTV Group, is Mitch's boss and can be written/phoned at the above, too.

From the D* website:


> For Information on: General DIRECTV Information, Marketing, Advanced Products and Commercial Business:
> Jade Valine, Specialist, Public Relations, Phone: (310) 964-3429, Department Fax: (310) 535-5225


There's also their Investor Relations Department's email:
[email protected]

I'd be glad to assist with phone calls, letters, faxes and emails.


----------



## mike_k7

Got my third unit from BB - made Aug. 25, 2004 - Made in Mexico. Same as my second unit, and same F'ing problem with HDMI. Was fine for a few days, then it went south.

There have been several posts here describing problems with the way the card interfaces with the motherboard - I'm wondering if the problem could be in the way the HDMI cable interfaces with the card. Jiggling the cable seems to affect the picture. I'm wondering if those folks that messed around with the card and how it connects with the motherboard were really seeing differences because they were messing with the cable connecting with the card as well. Just a thought.

Now I'm just waiting for the 3.1.5d update to screw me over like it did on my last one.

Now that we have some names and an address and phone number, I'd say it's time to let them hear from us. They need to understand that these problems are affecting their most loyal and dedicated customers (who else would drop $1,000 on one of these units) - and all of that loyalty and dedication is starting to wear thin. All I know is that they are lucky that the cable service in my area sucks.


----------



## Rik

Agreed. I'm in on the calling campaign. It's time to rattle some cages.


----------



## Coastal Country

I have a Samsung HLP5063W DLP set. I just purchased the new Directv HD TIVO reciever (HR10-250). The problem I have is that when I hook up the receiver to the tv with HDMI or DVI, I get a No Signal message, yet it does work with S-Video. It seems pretty straight forward to plug in the connection and change the setting on the tv to the correct format, HDMI, DVI, etc. Yet I get no signal at all with the DVI/HDMI connection.
Is this considered a problem or am I doing something wrong? Should I exchange the receiver?
Thanks!


----------



## kimsan

> _Originally posted by Coastal Country _
> *I have a Samsung HLP5063W DLP set. I just purchased the new Directv HD TIVO reciever (HR10-250). The problem I have is that when I hook up the receiver to the tv with HDMI or DVI, I get a No Signal message, yet it does work with S-Video. It seems pretty straight forward to plug in the connection and change the setting on the tv to the correct format, HDMI, DVI, etc. Yet I get no signal at all with the DVI/HDMI connection.
> Is this considered a problem or am I doing something wrong? Should I exchange the receiver?
> Thanks! *


Two things to remember. 1 - Samsung HLP sets do not accept 480i via DVI or HDMI. 2 - The HR10-250 S-Video and composite are only enabled for 480i.

Try using the up arrow or front panel button to change the HDTiVo output to 480p/720p/1080i. You'll see the front panel indicator cycle through the resolutions. On screen you'll see 480i displayed on the first up arrow press, then the screen will show no input. Now switch the TV to DVI or HDMI.

If you still have no picture or any of the variations of colors and posterization, the HDTiVo likely has a bad or badly seated HDMI card. Time for an exchange.

If you've got a great picture, smile and be happy.

Until you exchange, you can unplug the HDMI cable and use Component video.

I've got the HL-P4663W.  Nice sets, aren't they?


----------



## mfleming

> _Originally posted by TSpoonEars _
> *Mine died tonight too after 6 weeks. Pink screen and horrible colour banding. Strangely component video is dead too - I get the odd video line on the screen and that's it. S-video still works.
> 
> Looks like I'm off to Best Buy tomorrow to take advantage of the Extended Warranty I bought.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andy *


I was thinking about getting one from BestBuy since I have a 10% off coupon for this weekend. But, they told me that the Extended Warranty did not allow for them to let me keep the bad unit until a replacement is given. I have to give it to them first, then they try to fix it, and if unfixable, they give me a new one. Said it could take a week. As you all know, a week without Tivo is impossible!

Is the the way you understand the BB warranty to work?

_I've been holding back buying one (again), waiting for DTV to address the problem. It looks like they may NEVER address it. This is the most unbelievable case of poor business I think I've ever seen._


----------



## Coastal Country

> _Originally posted by kimsan _
> *Two things to remember. 1 - Samsung HLP sets do not accept 480i via DVI or HDMI. 2 - The HR10-250 S-Video and composite are only enabled for 480i.
> 
> Try using the up arrow or front panel button to change the HDTiVo output to 480p/720p/1080i. You'll see the front panel indicator cycle through the resolutions. On screen you'll see 480i displayed on the first up arrow press, then the screen will show no input. Now switch the TV to DVI or HDMI.
> 
> If you still have no picture or any of the variations of colors and posterization, the HDTiVo likely has a bad or badly seated HDMI card. Time for an exchange.
> 
> If you've got a great picture, smile and be happy.
> 
> Until you exchange, you can unplug the HDMI cable and use Component video.
> 
> I've got the HL-P4663W.  Nice sets, aren't they? *


I understand what you are saying. I only get picture/signal with S-Video or Component at 480i. When I switch to the DVI or HDMI cables and swith the source on the tv correctly and change the receiver to 720p or 1080i, I get No Signal. I'm thinking I have to switch out the reciever and try a new one...has to be a bad HDMI on it. Going to Circuit City tonight to get another one to try...if still same....I want my $1000. back for this piece of junk.
As for my HLP5063W...LOVE IT! Just haven't seen HD on it yet! Great picture without it, so I can only imagine with HD! Maybe someday....


----------



## kimsan

> _Originally posted by Coastal Country _
> *I understand what you are saying. I only get picture/signal with S-Video or Component at 480i. When I switch to the DVI or HDMI cables and swith the source on the tv correctly and change the receiver to 720p or 1080i, I get No Signal. I'm thinking I have to switch out the reciever and try a new one...has to be a bad HDMI on it. Going to Circuit City tonight to get another one to try...if still same....I want my $1000. back for this piece of junk.*


That's a shame. Had it only been a setup misunderstanding, you'd be in HD nirvana by now.



> *As for my HLP5063W...LOVE IT! Just haven't seen HD on it yet! Great picture without it, so I can only imagine with HD! Maybe someday.... *


Pull the HDMI plug from the HDTiVo and plug in the Component (GreenBlueRed) cable. You can have HD right now. Just not HD via and all digital path.

But definitely exchange the unit ASAP. Good luck on the next one!


----------



## Coastal Country

Hi Kim,
Thanks for the input. I can go that route with component, only thing is that I use the component connections on the back of my Sammy TV to connect to my A/V receiver. I really need the HDMI for hookup between the HD/Tivo receiver and the TV. Hopefully I'll get a unit that works later tonight when I try to exchange this one. 
Cheers,
--Richard


----------



## MrBigglesworth

I just ran some quick numbers above, and based on failures, this has affected well over $200,000 worth of equipment. That is insane. I wonder if when I write I should include the poll sampling up there.


----------



## dmwierz

> _Originally posted by mfleming _
> *I was thinking about getting one from BestBuy since I have a 10% off coupon for this weekend. But, they told me that the Extended Warranty did not allow for them to let me keep the bad unit until a replacement is given. I have to give it to them first, then they try to fix it, and if unfixable, they give me a new one. Said it could take a week. As you all know, a week without Tivo is impossible!
> 
> Is the the way you understand the BB warranty to work?
> 
> I've been holding back buying one (again), waiting for DTV to address the problem. It looks like they may NEVER address it. This is the most unbelievable case of poor business I think I've ever seen. *


Holy Moley no! The value of the extended warranty as sold to me is, if the thing breaks, you get a new one. Not after they try to fix it! As one who bought a POS RCA DVD recorder last November and who has had it in the shop for 9 of the 10 months I have owned it, all without RCA agreeing it needs to be replaced (they still inisist on trying to fix it), I would NEVER accept paying for a warranty only to have them try to fix it before giving you a new one. As I have found out, trying to fix it could take months!


----------



## hyperdoc

HDMI seems to be working for me. Have had it for 4-5 days.

I do have one issue which I am not sure is matching up to others I have read on this forum.

When I turn TV on (Have MIT DLP 52725) I get "channel not available". I flip the format button to toggle 720, 1080... The screen flashes and I get a picture. Sometimes it seems I have to change channels. All seems fine from there. Anybody experiencing this? What is it?

Is this signs of a pending disaster? 

I did not buy extended warranty because my normal original Tivo has been so good to me. Should I go back and get the warranty?


----------



## Rik

Are you sure your set can handle all formats? Some large screens cannot handle an inbound 720p for example and so you would get a blank screen when feeding 720p to such a set. My previous Toshiba 65" was one such set. It's one of the reasons I sold it and purchased a Pioneer Elite. Didn't want to miss out on the 720p X-Box games.


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## hyperdoc

Can handle all formats and converts them to 720p. So that not it but thanks for the thought.


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## Coastal Country

> _Originally posted by kimsan _
> *That's a shame. Had it only been a setup misunderstanding, you'd be in HD nirvana by now.
> 
> Pull the HDMI plug from the HDTiVo and plug in the Component (GreenBlueRed) cable. You can have HD right now. Just not HD via and all digital path.
> 
> But definitely exchange the unit ASAP. Good luck on the next one! *


Just wanted to give an update. Swapped out my unit for another at Circuit City last night, came home installed in minutes, and WORKS! Just as I suspected...bad HDMI port on the last one. Hopefully this one won't go bad like I've read happening to some people. In any event...I've arrived...HDTV heaven! It's a beautiful thing! Thanks for your support with this.


----------



## kimsan

> _Originally posted by Coastal Country _
> *Just wanted to give an update. Swapped out my unit for another at Circuit City last night, came home installed in minutes, and WORKS! Just as I suspected...bad HDMI port on the last one. Hopefully this one won't go bad like I've read happening to some people. In any event...I've arrived...HDTV heaven! It's a beautiful thing! Thanks for your support with this. *


:up: Congratulations!

Since you've got a good'un, care to share the build date? As soon as it sounds like there's a significant success rate I (and quite a few others) will be ready to play the warranty roulette game and get back to digital all the way.


----------



## wspo

Local CC received a couple units so I thought I would try one while the unit I purchased via the Web was still inside 30 days. Original unit was manufactured in Mexico Aug 04. HDMI DOA. New unit manufactured in Mexico Sep 04 HDMI DOA. Played with the card a little and got a pink picture for a second. After that only flashes of a signal. Return to CC for refund. I guess I will keep the original unit until a fix is in place. If anyone wants to take a chance they have one unit left (Huntsville, AL).


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## swspjcd

I've read through this thread and several others and from what I can tell, the HDMI problems that everyone are having are hardware related, correct? The reason I ask is that there were a few people that, after receiving the 3.1.5D update, hard their HDMI working correctly. 
I just bought a new Sony KD-34XBR960 tv with a HDMI interface and just received the HR10-250 today. I ran all the cables and installed the new satellite (took almost all day for cables mostly!) and hooked up the new HD Tivo. The picture on my HDMI interface is crappy at best. There is a picture but it appears to look like artifacting and the color is all screwed up also. The component video picture looks fine. I am in the process of getting the 3.15D update now in hopes of it fixing the picture problems. I even tried doing the fix others said would work, by pushing the up arrow to change the output type. A few people said that would fix the picture problems. It didn't. I'm going to retry all the supposed fixes once 3.1.5d gets installed but I'm pretty disappointed, as I'm sure most of you are, that my new unit doesn't work and now I'm going to have to send it back and get another one and try again. I'm sure none of this is new to any of you so I guess I'm just venting at this point. What I'm not sure of though is if the HDMI problem I'm having is the same as others or could it be with HDCP and the tv or something since I actually do have a picture, although it's far from what it's supposed to be. 

Suggestions?

John


----------



## dmwierz

FWIW, after having frequent pink screens from the first day of installing my HD TiVo on the HDMI connection over the labor day weekend, I received the softare update a couple weeks ago and have not had a single problem since then with my HDMI. YMMV.


----------



## swspjcd

> _Originally posted by dmwierz _
> *FWIW, after having frequent pink screens from the first day of installing my HD TiVo on the HDMI connection over the labor day weekend, I received the softare update a couple weeks ago and have not had a single problem since then with my HDMI. YMMV. *


I managed to finally get my new unit to upgrade to 3.1.5d and it still has a terrible picture using the HDMI interface so back it goes! How ridiculous that we have to keep sending units back until we get one that actually works correctly. It's just absurd. 
<Sigh>
John


----------



## bimmerbe

Now that I have had mine running for 3 weeks I entered my results in the poll: No problems at all. I run into the DVI input of my Samsung HLN467W and the picture is near perfect. My build is Mexico, Aug 21. I had one instance of stuttering after the 5d update, but other than that just nirvana. I feel very fortunate considering the number of others with problems. When I picked the unit out at BB I actually went through all of the boxes on the floor and tried to pick the one that I thought had the latest build date. A rather nerdy activity, but maybe it paid off.


----------



## tivoboy

did you open the boxes.

I couldn't find a build date on the outside, and the SS# could go either way.

eliminating the first set of numbers that were all the same, the last four digits and numbers were differant.

But, it was hard to tell what the protocol was. D934, could be before or AFTER AA23 for example. Maybe, they started with TWO LETTER, maybe they started with Double digit letter and ran out?

I THOUGHT about opening every box, but didn't


----------



## bimmerbe

I didn't open every box. There seemed to be a batch code, if I remember correctly, that was generally increasing as I moved down the shelf which made sense that they might stock from one end. Probably nothing more than an educated guess, but the build date was within 3 weeks of when I bought it so it seemed like I got a fairly recent item.


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## Rik

> _Originally posted by dmwierz _
> *FWIW, after having frequent pink screens from the first day of installing my HD TiVo on the HDMI connection over the labor day weekend, I received the softare update a couple weeks ago and have not had a single problem since then with my HDMI. YMMV. *


I too am no longer experiencing the pink screen issue. I didin't notice exactly when I received the software update but it may be the reason. Previously I could not get through a half hour without frequent pink screen flicker. Now ... not a one for a week.


----------



## tfoley49

I purchased the unit in April. Worked great for 2 months with HDMI-DVI. Then started locking up and pink screen. DirecTV said I was crazy so Tweeter replaced after 3 week wait. That unit the port didn't work at all. I called DirecTV and now they acknowledge that there is a problem and sent me out a new one. That one also did not work. They are sending me out another one. I have my fingers crossed!!!


----------



## AJ500

Is anyone getting their replacement HR10-250 from DirecTV shipped in double boxing?

My replacement was shipped in its regular packaging. It had no HDMI out of the box. With the HDMI card interface with the motherboard so tenuous, it's a wonder any of these replacements from DirecTV work.


----------



## stace

I just got mine from Weaknees. Out of the box, the HDMI picture is horrible, while component looks spiffy.

Should I deal with DirecTV or Weaknees on getting a replacement?

Is this definitely a hardware problem? Frankly, I don't want to return it. And I especially don't want to if a new one isn't going to perform any better.

Any advice?


----------



## bfdhe

Couple weeks ago... HDMI died. (Had been running fine for months)

Received replacement from DirecTV. Worked OK for a few days. Then the HDMI quit working... Decided I could live with component for now.... Then the next day.... CLACK,CLACK,CLACK... goes the hard drive and stuck on "Powering up"... Dead Hard drive.

Now it has been almost two weeks and I still have not received my replacement. Called DTV again and they said it was backordered. 

Good thing I still had an old 7000 series, so at least I can get TiVo features without the HD.


----------



## sotapoppy

> _Originally posted by bfdhe _
> *
> .......Now it has been almost two weeks and I still have not received my replacement. Called DTV again and they said it was backordered......
> 
> *


This is silly!! They are the "manufacturer". Why do they have to backorder from "themselves"? If they can't deliver, they should let you buy one from BB or CC and then credit your account for the $999. The point is if these are readily available at stores, why are they not available at the "manufacturer"?


----------



## dgimple

First unit was purchased from Best Buy online.....HDMI didn't work out of the box. Called DTV and they Fed ex'd a new unit which I got 3 days later. (Actually was pretty good as there was a weekend in there). Hooked it up, no problems up until two nights ago. Bright green screen w/ no picture. Unplug, reboot, working fine. Over the past day I have gotten the green screen 2 more times. Just got off the phone w/ DTV and they are Fed ex'ing another unit out today.......so this will be unit #3....I hope there doesn't need to be a unit #4....

Funny thing is the guy I spoke with said he hasn't had anyone who had multiple HDMI problems....I told him to check this site....


----------



## camcollect

Please change my vote from <NO FAILURE> to <Had Failure on more than 1 unit - Made in USA>

Purchased mine in April, HDMI looked awesome. Unit failed (HDMI Port that is) wednesday night (after 6 mos. of heavy use) 
I just received a new unit from D* but have not tried it yet.


----------



## wankel8

I have had my HR10-250 for a few weeks without any problems. I have skimmed briefly the posts on the HDMI issue...

Has anyone considered replacing the very cheap looking HDMI cable that comes with the unit? I use the HDMI to DVI cable, the DVI connector has 25 pins. I assume that means that there is 25 wires in that very small diameter cable! I bought a new cable which is larger in diameter. I know it is a long shot, but I wonder if the cable itself is causing some of the HDMI problems. If nothing else, the new cable makes me feel better. FWIW.


----------



## tsgoodyear

HDMI dead after 2 days. Worked perfectly at first, now using component video while waiting for replacement.


----------



## Dean Martin

Well it looks as though my HDMI-DVI has gone out just like everyone elses.
The picture started to look like a paint by numbers pinkish image and so I have switched to component. let the phone calls begin...

I got my unit from the first rounds when Circuit city started listing them on their website.


----------



## sdchrgrboy

> _Originally posted by Dean Martin _
> *Well it looks as though my HDMI-DVI has gone out just like everyone elses.
> The picture started to look like a paint by numbers pinkish image and so I have switched to component. let the phone calls begin...
> 
> I got my unit from the first rounds when Circuit city started listing them on their website. *


Ditto here. Exactly the same symptoms here, down to the paint by numbers look. Purchased at cc online end of May. Is there a special number to call?


----------



## sotapoppy

> _Originally posted by sdchrgrboy _
> *Ditto here. Exactly the same symptoms here, down to the paint by numbers look. Purchased at cc online end of May. Is there a special number to call? *


Directv advanced technical support 800-695-9251. You will probably get passed around a few times and then wind up back at advanced tech support. They are the one's that process the replacement. If you have the Directv protection plan you should point out that this is not a protection plan issue. Otherwise they will probably try to get you a refurbished unit. Make sure you tell them you want a new unit and that your's is under the manufacturer's warranty and that they are the manufacturer. I've done this twice now. Good luck!


----------



## zubinh

I cant understand why people want a New unit. I had the HDMI problem and I specifically asked for a refurbished unit. Why? Because at least the refurb has been looked over at least twice before it gets sent out. We already know that quality control on the new ones is lacking so why ask for more trouble?

My refurb replacement has a working HDMI and has been trouble free for three weeks (even with the new update) ...knock wood


----------



## sdchrgrboy

> _Originally posted by sotapoppy _
> *Directv advanced technical support 800-695-9251. You will probably get passed around a few times and then wind up back at advanced tech support. They are the one's that process the replacement. If you have the Directv protection plan you should point out that this is not a protection plan issue. Otherwise they will probably try to get you a refurbished unit. Make sure you tell them you want a new unit and that your's is under the manufacturer's warranty and that they are the manufacturer. I've done this twice now. Good luck! *


Thanks for all the information.


----------



## knoxbh

Really have had problems with the HD10-250. Bought original from Value Electronics - it had the usual audio/freeze problem with the HDMI connection (and the component connections also). Have since received 3 more Tivos and all have the same problem. Going to send back the 4th one next week. All 3 replacements have been refurbished and obviously none have had the problem fixed - could tell refurbished by seal on box being broken and greasy fingerprints on the box. By the way, have been a Directv sub for at least 6 years, have 3 2nd Generation Tivos, and 2 regular receivers all working perfectly. At this point, should I demand a NEW HD10-250 and if they can't do that, request my money be refunded?

Howard Knox


----------



## dgimple

Just got my third HD10-250 from Direct TV today...of course I haven't had the green screen problem in a week since I called them. With my luck I will set up the new unit and send my current one back only to have a problem with this new unit. Why do I feel like I am playing a very expensive game of russian roulette??


----------



## mike_k7

> _Originally posted by AbMagFab _
> *I would love to see a poll that correlated HDMI failures with people who modify their boxes on their own. Since people won't be honest, it's pointless, but I have to believe a large percentage of the HDMI failures come from people who added a drive on their own, and either knowlingly or unintentionally banged/touched the HDMI card.
> 
> Yes it's an indication it's too fragile, but maybe not as fragile if you don't modify the box at all. *


I'm on my third unit - all three have had HDMI failures - none of the cases have been opened. I will say that all were shipped from BB in only the HD10-250 box - no additional packing. I don't understand why you wouldn't pack a $1,000 unit better than that, especially since it has a hard drive in it, but that might account for some of the problems as well.


----------



## mike_k7

I picked up my fourth unit from CC tonight. I saw that they had them in stock so I thought I would try that route instead of having it shipped. I got it home and looked at the box and it had already been opened. Thinking that it must have been returned and put back into inventory, I took it back to exchange it for a new one. The only other one they had looked like it had already been opened as well. I spoke with someone who appeared to be a manager - he said they never put returns back into inventory and that there was no way this unit was a return. Both units had born-on dates of July, 2004, which made me leery as well. Having nothing to lose, I took the second unit home. Upon closer inspection, which should have been done in the store - stupid me, there are several scratches on the case and smudges on the front and bottom of the unit. 

So either the guy at CC is not being truthful, or, my other thought, is that maybe DTV is fixing the units that are returned to them and sending them back out as new. Could this be? It makes sense that DTV would want to somehow reuse the units that were returned, I just can't imagine them selling them as new. Anyone heard of this?

I've not tried to see if the HDMI works yet. My guess is still that it was a return so I don't think I will mess with checking it and just take it back.


----------



## bfdhe

Received my replacement from DTV yesterday (After 2 weeks).

Born on date: sept 07 2004. Do not have it hooked up yet, but hope it all works.


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## FJ Merlin

Went to CC today. Told the guy I had a problem with HDMI, he said "We dont" as he pointed to an LCD monitor hooked up to the 10-250 working like a champ. He pulled the box out and checked the born-on date....dated 18 - aug - 04. I asked him if I could bring mine in and swap it out for a newer one and he said sure. I asked him if the newer one still doesnt work could I bring it back in and hook it up to the LCD screen that was working with the other box, he said sure... needless to say I feel a little better about this. Hopefully this new dated box works, I wont know till Friday so I will let you guys know then.


----------



## no1home

Well, I guess I jinxed myself by voting that my HDMI port was working. It was working fine, but the next day I got the Blue Screen of Death saying the unit was shutting down because the internal temp was too high. Of course the unit was cold to the touch. Tried unplugging it and plugging it back in serveral times but never got past the "Almost there.." screen, after which the BSOD would reappear. 

So I unplugged the HDMI cable, plugged in a component cable, and fired it up. Guess what, it worked. So add me to the list of failed HDMI ports. This sucks, right during the World Series too.


----------



## FJ Merlin

> _Originally posted by FJ Merlin _
> *Went to CC today. Told the guy I had a problem with HDMI, he said "We dont" as he pointed to an LCD monitor hooked up to the 10-250 working like a champ. He pulled the box out and checked the born-on date....dated 18 - aug - 04. *


Well, I checked my box and it had the same build date as the working one at CC. What does that tell me?? I have no idea...

Now I dont want to go through the hastle of bringing it in for a box with the same date... what to do, what to do???


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## Sc0rp10n

dead out of the box. i have 1 HR10-250 using HDMI->DVI in my living room that has been working for about a month. my new HR10-250 for my home theater was dead out of the box. picture was mostly black with some blue. switched to component and picture was fine.

i bought this unit from weaknees and the directv seal was broken on the box. this is not an upgraded unit so there is no reason that the seal should have been broken. the contents in the box reaked of "restock". i was afraid this was going to happen.


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## sjmaye

I am at the seriously ready to purchased stage on a HD DirecTivo. I have been watching this HDMI failure for a while now. I had hoped Directv would have had a fix by now. Guess not?

I am putting together a ~90" front projection home theater. I am not really familiar with how big an improvement HDMI provides in picture quality over component video connections. 

Is there really a noticeable difference?


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## alfried3

Mexicao Agust 2004. HDMI shot out of the box. First picture was green, then dark blue, now nothing, Using components. Has anyone had problems with DTV Customer service dealing with repplacements. If replaced, what is the process. Thanks.


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## mrmits

on second unit. everything fine so far. i really dont see much of a difference between hdmi and component. 

bought 1st unit online, hdmi had paint by numbers look to it. got it replaced from Directv advanced technical support 800-695-9251 and they fedexed me a new one.


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## Mark.patton

I have the Hughes HD10-250 it's been running fine for almost two months. I must be over the hump.


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## bfdhe

I had mine for 3 months before the HDMI died. Over the hump? I doubt it.


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## djjefft

Have had my HR10-250 since July and today, during footbal the HDMI goes out. I fiddled with it a little, then pulled it out in favor of component cables and it worked fine.

It just started flickering, then finally went out.

I called advanced tech support and they asked if I had tried a new cable. I said no, the unit is under warranty, so why would I go out and pay for a new cable to test it out and then lose the money.

She told me that the cable was not under warranty (is this true) and to go buy one and if it did not work, they would credit me the amount of the cable an send me out a new unit.

Kinda late in the day, so I guess I will get the new cable tomorrow, but my gut tells me that it is not the problem.

Should I demand a new unit or do I not have a choice?

Thanks

Jeff


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## tivoboy

Wow!! Could it be the cables? Could it be that all this time we are looking at the wrong thing? I always wondered how they could put 100$ worth of cables in the box, maybe they are just really cheap cables and they burn out.

Anyone try another cable on a dead HDMI box?


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## ccmdphd

I just got my second HDTV recorder and can't get the HDMI to work. I see muddy colors with a picture for a few seconds and then it's gone. I can get the component to work, and can also get HDTV to work with Comcast. If anyone has any ideas; let me know; otherwise I am returning the unit and waiting until they have something that works. The component picture is so inferior that I am not willing to pay 1000+ for it.

BTW, I did try a differnit DVI-HDMI cable. It didn't help.

Any ideas?


Carl C
Ann Arbor, Mi


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## hipreck

ccmdphd, My first unit did the same thing. Return it for another. My second unit has been flawless.


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## Weyoun9

:down: I activated an HD10-150 DirecTV TIVO two days ago and the HDMI port was dead on arrival. After spending well over an hour on the phone with DirecTV, they said talk to the vendor.

I talked to the vendor who said that they were not allowed to replace a registered HD10-250. They said taqlk to DirecTV.

S here I am with a brand new malfunctioning HD10-250 and no one will help. DirecTV has been totally unresponsive to this problem.


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## cocoon

> _Originally posted by Weyoun9 _
> *:down: I activated an HD10-150 DirecTV TIVO two days ago and the HDMI port was dead on arrival. After spending well over an hour on the phone with DirecTV, they said talk to the vendor. *


It may take several phone calls to get someone sympathetic and failing that threaten to cancel directv over the lousy service (you may even get a sizable service credit over the matter). Still even if you get the replacement from directv no guarantee that you will get one with a working HDMI port.

It took me over 5 replacements and a hell of a lot of frustration to get a working unit.


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## BiminiRoad

I've been lurking in here for a while now and thought I'd weigh in on my experiences. I bought my HDTivo on 10/1 and the HDMI promptly failed 3 weeks later. I switched to component outs and have not had any issues since. 

I received software update 3.1.5d about a week and had no issues. It would seem that my failure occured soon after the 3.1.5e update. I'm not so sure this had anything to do with my HDMI failure, which came in the form of reduction in color depth. Perhaps 16 colors.

I could have exchanged the unit @ BB, but I decided against it. I fully expected another unit w/ same traits. (...and would lose all my recorded shows)

So, I plan to utilize my one year warranty. Barring any further failures, I will get a warranty replacement once it seems there is a working fix.

On a side note, I did remove my HDMI card and reinstalled it just to be sure it was properly seated. It seems to be seated, but the pins are extremely small. During this exercise, I took some photos of the HDMI card and will share them if there is any interest.


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## bfdhe

Now on my 4th HDTiVo.... HDMI works!!! (Not holding my breath) It has successfully upgraded to 3.1.5e, added 2-300B drives, Ethernet and TiVoWeb.

So far so good.


----------



## Loren Kruse

Outsider looking in...

So in the past we have seen -

HDMI fails but pushing down on HDMI will restore service so long as pressure is held down

HDMI fails after a software upgrade, perhaps Replay is adjusting the signal strength on the HDMI through software

HDMI not working on a newly opened unit, surely it was tested at the factory?

Outside cable tension on the connection causing problems?

Seems like by now this problem would have been solved...

Here is a good website to look at - http://www.hdmi.org/

Here is the SPEC's on HDMI - http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturers/retrieve_hdmi_spec.asp


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## adamsfbay

More info:

My HD TiVo arrived three weeks ago from WeakKnees. It's a late September manufacturer date.

HDMI worked out of the box with my 55" Fujitsu. I have a DVI HD Receiver and an HDMI DVD player running through a DVI switch.

I babied the TiVo, installing it carefully into my rack, and inserting a Monster HDMI to DVI cable one time, gently. Since then it has remained, untouched, in my media room. Literally nothing has touched the box or the cable connection since. I received both the "d" and "e" software updates in the interim, the last about 1.5 weeks ago.

Last night I watched a show or two perfectly at 1080i. This AM, after three weeks of perfect functioning, I turn on the TV to see that everything looks as if it's rendered using 4,000 colors - obvious banding. Changed the DVI switch mode, changed the output resolution mode, restarted the TiVo - nothing. Unplugged the HDMI and reinserted it a couple of times. Nothing.

So - warning to others. The HD TiVo HDMI from a September build might work for almost a month - and die like a dog for no obvious reason.

This one's going back to WeaKKnees - their service has been EXTRAORDINARY, and I'm very glad I purchased it through them.

-Adam


----------



## rockytopps

...hooked first one up yesterday and HDMI port is dead right out of the box. HD tivo had a born on date of Aug. 12 made in Mexico. I took it back today to Tweeter here in Nashville and they said they had some new units in. They went to the stockroom and brought out their last unit. I opened up the box to find out it had the exact same born on date, so needless to say I wasn't very confident. Got home and hooked unit up to my new projectors Hdmi input and to my amazement....IT WORKED!!!! For approximately 15 minutes that is It went haywire showing pink and green lines all over my screen. Man I am so ticked. I spent $175 for a 40ft. Hdmi to Hdmi cable and can't even use it. Before anyone says it, yes I tried two different Hdmi cables, so it isn't the cables. Component works but the longest comp. cable I have is about 6ft. I guess I am going to have to order a 40 ft. component cable which runs another $140 if I want to be able to use my BRAND SPANKIN' NEW projector that I just bought. The most frustrating and baffling thing of all is why these HDMI ports aren't checked before the boxes are shipped. Whatever happened to quality control?


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## abbas

I had bought my HD TIVO in July and finally got my Sharp 45 inch LCD LC45GX6U installed. The Sharp's HDMI failed to recognize the HDMI on the Diretv. So last week, I went and exchanged the TIVO unit. Now, everything works fine except I get this pink hue every so often on the screen. The problem that happens is that on HD channels, the Sharp unit gives a temporary error of no digital sound output. The pink hue goes away when I go into the Sharp's HDMI settings and reset them. The Sharp has 4 HDMI setttings, Auto, RGB, YCbCr4:4:4, and YCbCr4:2:2. First, I had it set to Auto and got the pink hue. Then I went thru all the options and found the YCbCr4:4:4 to be the correct setting and again at a later time I got the pink hue. One I reset everything again, I realized that the RGB setting creates that hue under normal circumstances. So I am wondering, if the Directv is at fault or my own TV.... 

As of yesterday, I changed to the HDMI to DVI cable and so far no problems and obviously no audio error. Will see in the next few days if the DVI input on the Sharp will handle the Directv better. BTW, I do have the latest software, the 3.1.5e.

The ouput on the Directv is always set on 1080i. Since the Sharp does 1080p, it will be upscaled no matter what.

Abbas


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## chuckbr

Abbas,
You are not alone -- I have an LC45GX6U with same "pink screen" syndrome, but others with displays made by other companies have the exact same difficulty. It clearly seems to be a problem with HR10-250 output. I'm just going to use another interface until units with a solid fix are available (hopefully before the 1 yr warranty is up!!).
Chuck



> _Originally posted by abbas _
> *I had bought my HD TIVO in July and finally got my Sharp 45 inch LCD LC45GX6U installed. The Sharp's HDMI failed to recognize the HDMI on the Diretv. So last week, I went and exchanged the TIVO unit. Now, everything works fine except I get this pink hue every so often on the screen. The problem that happens is that on HD channels, the Sharp unit gives a temporary error of no digital sound output. The pink hue goes away when I go into the Sharp's HDMI settings and reset them. The Sharp has 4 HDMI setttings, Auto, RGB, YCbCr4:4:4, and YCbCr4:2:2. First, I had it set to Auto and got the pink hue. Then I went thru all the options and found the YCbCr4:4:4 to be the correct setting and again at a later time I got the pink hue. One I reset everything again, I realized that the RGB setting creates that hue under normal circumstances. So I am wondering, if the Directv is at fault or my own TV....
> 
> As of yesterday, I changed to the HDMI to DVI cable and so far no problems and obviously no audio error. Will see in the next few days if the DVI input on the Sharp will handle the Directv better. BTW, I do have the latest software, the 3.1.5e.
> 
> The ouput on the Directv is always set on 1080i. Since the Sharp does 1080p, it will be upscaled no matter what.
> 
> Abbas *


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## ctsshack

I haven't post here before (but have on another "unamed" board). I've had a SAT-T60 for many years and it's been a great box. So I decided to add a HR10-250 to my collection. I received a unit (Build date Sep '04, Mexico) and sure enough my HDMI was dead. In the System info screen the HDMI status was none. This was bizare I thought since it seemed as though it was not even there. As a person with many years of PC and minor electronics experience, I decided to explore further. I decided to explore this further.

I opened the cover and the HDMI card appeared to be seated properly but it was not. A little pressure in one the card towards the front confirmed my suspicion. It seated in there but a few seconds later popped back out. I removed the card (removing the 3 screws in the back), made sure there was no dust or anything and reseated the card. I noticed that there is quite bit of play on the holes when the 3 screws are not tightened. I seated the card with best contact as possible and held it in that position while tightening the middle, then bottom then top screw and the board seemed to stay seated firmly. Replaced cover, hooked everything back up and HDMI fired right up and looks beautiful 

Probably during shipping the card worked loose. (My old Yamaha surround sound receiver this something similar loosing the display and front buttons every time it traveled.)

So if you are technical enough and your HDMI goes on the fritz. Try reseating the card and see if that works.


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## abbas

When I took my first TIVO unit back for the exchange, the salesman was asking me if I manually turned the HDMI on? He said with their unit, he had to open it up and manually turn it on... I dont know what that meant but maybe he was referring to reseaing the card. He was too busy to show me that day so he just replaced my unit.

chuckbr - So far no pink screen with the DVI input on the Sharp. If the DVI works out, I have no problem staying with it rather than going for HDMI. I dont use the audio of the HDMI and the video should be the same. But it is nice to know the problem is with the TIVO unit, it would be kinda hard to replace the sharp.


abbas


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## ctsshack

Ive got a Sony Wega KF-50WE610 hooked to my HR10-250. Your correct in that using HDMI and DVI should be exactly the same in terms of video. Comparing DVI/HDMI to component is another story. HD broadcasts look slightly better on DVI/HMDI than component. What blew me away was how much better the SD (Standard definition) channels looked on DVI/HDMI. The component showed pixilation and the DVI/HDMI signal smoothed out better. Of course its not as sharp as HD, but its certainly a big improvement. The problem with component is you going from a digital source, to analog and back to digital on an LCD projection TV like mine. Even my parents CRT Mitsibishi HD set converts everything to digital to display to an analog tube. So you mileage may very for those with CRT HD sets.

So now Im very happy with my HR10-250 (just need to make sure ver E of the software doesnt load since Im reading all the horror stories about it.) Now I can truly enjoy true HD and PVR in one nice package


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## adamsfbay

Don't count your chickens - my HDMI worked perfectly for one month before it suddenly stopped working (posterizing)

I've come to the conclusion that the HD TiVo simply has major quality-control issues with HDMI that won't get fixed for some time. My vendor has agreed to swap my unit for a new one a few months into 2005 when I suspect a real fix might make its way to market.

Regarding HDMI vs. Component - I had never hooked up component until I had to out of necessity, and I politely disagree with your statements.

First of all, I have a 55" Fujitsu plasma. I know good digital signal, as I have an SDI-modified DVD player going pure digital to an iScan HD, and from there DVI to the Fujitsu. The iScan HD is 1:1 pixel mapped withe Fujitsu screen so no scaling whatsoever is being done by the plasma. On good DVDs I get a picture that looks and feels like good HD.

I find the HD Tivo Component picture to my plasma actually more appealing than the HDMI version I experienced for one month. It's smoother, without any loss in detail - and it has substantially less noise than HDMI did, even with the noise reduction feature on the Fujitsu set to off. I was shocked. Of course, this shouldn't be - and I believe that it indicates that the HDMI soluton on the HD TiVo is basically crap, even when it DOES work. SD pictures over component from D* look as crappy as they do over HDMI - and they are really crap (just look at SD over digital cable or even OTA and it's much better, less compressed). The HDMI SD definitely doesn't look a single bit better than the component.

I'm not the only one who thinks so. Ultimate AV Guide also found that they preferred the HD component output over HDMI. I'd have to agree with them, at least on my set.

So, even with HDMI shot, I'm surprisingly happy. Component is definitely slightly better on this box. I'll still go for the trade in early 2005 - but mostly to get new hard drives with less wear, and on the hope they have increased the video fidelity of their HDMI solution. We'll see.

Don't assume HDMI is "better" just because it's digital. In this case, it's not.


----------



## abbas

chuckbr - do you know anyway to stop the sharp from scaling everthing to 1080p? I like to see how the HD Tivo unit will perform.

abbas


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## ctsshack

Adamsfbay  I usually have the disclaimer of you mileage may vary and I should have on such a subjective items such as picture quality. It may be true that on your plasma set, the component is better looking. Im strictly going by what I see on me Sony LCD rear projection. You are correct in saying that digital does not mean better. (Cell phones come to mind!) The issue I have with component on my set is over pixilation. The fact remains that whenever you go from digital to analog and back to digital, your going to introduce additional pixilation not mater what. Before the HD TiVo I had a Samsung SIR-TS160 and on this unit the component was better than the DVI output as the DVI was too dark. (This was a Samsung issue instead of a Sony Issue.) As mentioned earlier in this thread, there appears to be a change in the HDMI cards from the earlier HD TiVos to the later ones. Perhaps I have the rev B card and you have the rev A card and that might explain the discrepancies.


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## unixadm

> _Originally posted by rockytopps _
> *Man I am so ticked. I spent $175 for a 40ft. Hdmi to Hdmi cable and can't even use it. Before anyone says it, yes I tried two different Hdmi cables, so it isn't the cables. Component works but the longest comp. cable I have is about 6ft. I guess I am going to have to order a 40 ft. component cable which runs another $140 if I want to be able to use my BRAND SPANKIN' NEW projector that I just bought. *


$140 for 40 foot Component???

Try Pacific Cable:

$56 for 50 feet
$69 for 75 Feet
$85 for 100 Feet

http://www.pacificcable.com/VideoAndAudio.htm#Python_Component_Cables

10 Meter HDMI to HDMI for $85
15 Meter HDMI to HDMI for $110
http://www.pacificcable.com/HDMI_Cables.html

I picked up a 5 Meter HDMI to DVI cable there for $42


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## abbas

Well, guess what... my HD TIVO kept powering down for no reason so I had to take it in for an exchange for the second time in 4 days. It kept saying it had overheated when the entire was very cool to the touch. The is new one seems to be quirky in its own way but has not justified a return yet. Will see how it will work out in the next few days.

abbas


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## Chadwickus

I hooked up my new HR10-250 the other day to my Panny 26" LCD using HDMI to HDMI. No picture. I thought for sure I was hitting the same problem as some are reporting here. But, I read the manual for the TV and realized is defaulted to Component connections. Went into the menu on the Panny and changed the input it was looking at to HDMI and voila! it was off and running. No problems yet after about three weeks. So, if you get no picture at all this might be something worth checking at least. Some are obviously dead if it doesn't list working HDMI in the System Information screen and this certainly doesn't apply to folks with garbled colors or low res, but thought it worth mentioning.

Chad


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## webpowered

My HD TiVo HDMI output gave no picture at all when I got it in September. It says Mexico 14 Aug 04. I've been using component outputs instead, but read just yesterday (when I joined this forum) that this is a common problem.

Today I tried HDMI again and got nothing. I looked at system information and without the HDMI connected it says "HDMI not connected", but when I connect the HDMI cable, and change the output to 480i so I can look at the monitor in my bedroom, the system info says : "HDCP not enabled".

I'm using a Sharp Aquos LC32G4U.

Should I assume my HDMI card is defective, and replace the unit from DirecTV (even if I wait a while so I'm sure I won't keep getting HDMI defective TiVo's)?

If the TiVo system info says "HDCP not enabled" it must know that the TV is connected via HDMI, so I don't understand how the HDMI card in the TiVo is not connected? Or are they just defective period?

There are no settings on the Sharp to "enable HDCP". I read emails in this thread from people with similar Sharp Aquos LCD's that can get theirs to work, albeit with pink screens and snow.

I notice when I go to the HDMI setup menu on the Sharp Aquos the two choices "Signal Type" and "Auto View" are greyed out and don't let me choose them. Is this because no HDMI info is coming from the TiVo?

Thanks for any replies, Don


----------



## Chadwickus

> _Originally posted by webpowered _
> *I'm using a Sharp Aquos LC32G4U.
> 
> Thanks for any replies, Don *


Don,
I noticed that the Sharp Aquos LC32G4U has both HDMI and DVI inputs. The HR10-250 comes with both HDMI-HDMI and HDMI-DVI cables. Have you tried both possibilites? Make sure you disconnect one while you try the other. And make sure the Components aren't connected up. I can't imagine that the choices in your Sharp menus are grayed out because it isn't receiving a signal from the receiver. Maybe, but sounds odd. Also, HDCP not enabled might happen at 480i because that resolution doesn't supprt HDCP.

If I understand you correctly, using just the HDMI-HDMI cable at 480i you are getting a picture? Is this correct?

Chad


----------



## abbas

Well, I think I have to back for the 3rd time and fourth unit tommorow. This new unit keeps locking up. I think the lockup are due to the HDMI connection but not sure. I get the blue screen of death that say the unit has overheated but it is cool to the touch. I wish somebody else made a different brand.

Off the subject, does anyone know if there any discrete IR codes for the format/resolution change?


----------



## webpowered

Thanks for reply, Chadwickus,

No I've never seen any picture at all using HDMI on the Sharp Aquos.

I wanted only to see if the system info on the HDTV TiVo showed any change when the HDMI was connected from TiVo to Sharp LCD. The only way to do this was look on another monitor, so I had to set it to 480i for conventional monitor to show the TiVo menu.

I had tried the HDMI to DVI cable too and saw no picture.

The Sharp LCD actually has different inputs for different equipment, so I could have a computer with DVI out connected to the DVI in on the Sharp and also have HDMI connected from the TiVo and switch back and forth between them.

I'm still curious if for sure my HDMI out from the TiVo is defective.

I've been reading other replies at the forum from the last few months and other issues such as restarting etc. are proposed, but primarily the faulty HDMI seems to be the culprit.

I just want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong before I get a replacement and then find out the replacement doesn't work too!

Any more feedback welcome from anyone!

Don


----------



## sabadon

I found this forum trying to track down what's wrong with the HR10-250 which was installed 11/10/04 to a Samsung 5063W HDTV.

Component output works but HDMI to HDMI and HDMI to DVI do not work.

After playing with HR10-250 and the TV for about 12 hours on Wednesday and Thursday, called Direct TV Friday and told them I thought I had a bad HDMI output jack. The tech rep surprised me (and made me suspicious) when she said very early in the conversation they would send me out a new one as a replacement. Received it about noon today.

Will report back on what happens when I install it.

Hooked up new unit. Made in Mexico Sept. 3, 2004. HDMI was DOA.

The good news is that since I have never seen HDMI output working, I don't know what I am missing, if anything.

Spent several hours tonight reading this whole thread. I suspect it was actually all written by Stephen King and is not really happening.

Will be contacting DirectTV tomorrow to see about unit number 3.


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## E3ACJA

I just returned my HD/Tivo receiver made to Circuit City. The HDMI failed twice. The picture was great but I did not get any sound. Hopefully this third receiver will work the way it is suppose too. Considering the problems I have had I purchased their extended service plan for five years. Tha last thing that I want to happen is have a problem with this unit after the manufacture's warranty expires. This a very expensive piece of equipment. I hope this helps.


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## abbas

On mine, every time I connect the HDMI cable, the unit locks up. I have to reach behind and unplug it and then use the component output. I still need to go replace it.


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## jlmza2350

I am now on my 4th HD-TIVO. I purchased them at CC and have had major problems.

1st unit- Hard drive dead out of box. 

2nd unit- HDMI dead (no picture) after 2 days.

3rd unit- HDMI shows BSOD(Internal temp to high) after a few minutes. 

4th unit- Same as the 3rd. I still have this unit.

Internal temp is fine after restarts. Units 2-4 worked fine with component outputs. No problem with temp.

I have a Sanyo Z2 with a 7.5 meter Lindy DVI cable and a Monster adapter.

I had a HTL-HD that worked fine with the DVI cable.

I have 10 days before the 30 day return is up at CC. 

I do not have another HD TV to experiment.

My questions is could the problems with the HDMI be related to my projector?

After 3 have failed about the same way I wonder if it's a problem with my system.


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## rockytopps

From jlmza2350:


> My questions is could the problems with the HDMI be related to my projector?


No!! It is NOT your projector. I have a projector as well (Panasonic AE700) and I am having the same problems with the HDMI output as anyone else. I have a 40 ft. HDMI-HDMI cable running from my SECOND HDTIVO to my PJ and it doesn't work. Component does. On my Pj's menu the HDMI options are greyed out when trying to use the HDMI. Directv fully knows about these issues and are supposedly trying to iron them out. They told me to hold off for a while and use the component output until they fixed the problems. So, for now that is what I am going to do. For now, I will use my HDMI cable on my newly ordered DVD player (Sony DVPNS975V).


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## abbas

jlmza2350 - I have had the exact same problems you have had but with my LCD. I picked up the fourth one today. The sales person was an ass to me saying they have never anyone return so many unit. I come home and hook it up and the HDMI is dead out of the box. I think I am going to wait a few months before retuning this one.


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## E3ACJA

Does anyone know if a HDMI failure on the HD/tivo unit can cause a failure on the HDMI connector on my tv. I just purchased a 34 in. widescreen sony (model # 34XBR960). I just returned for a third time my directv HD/Tivo box and the last thing that I want is for the HDMI on my tv to get messed up because the HDMI on my Tivo box fails. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## E3ACJA

abbas,

where did you buy your unit that you can return it to the place you bought it at after a few months. Sounds like probably purchase an extended warranty. I still like to know where you bought your unit. I purchased mine at Circuit City in California.


----------



## rockytopps

> _Originally posted by E3ACJA _
> *abbas,
> 
> where did you buy your unit that you can return it to the place you bought it at after a few months. Sounds like probably purchase an extended warranty. I still like to know where you bought your unit. I purchased mine at Circuit City in California. *


There is a one year warranty that comes with the receiver. I also bought a two year extension.


----------



## jlmza2350

rockytopps and abbas,

Thanks for your feedback.

I think I will try one more time. If it fails again then I will just return it and go back to my HTL-HD and wait till I hear they have the problem fixed.


----------



## abbas

I bought the unit at Magnolia's Hifi. But get this, I exchanched the unit yesterday again. The salesman in my opinion was kinda rude in taking it back. This is my fourth unit and the HDMI is dead out of the box and the component is acting kinds funny, it gets out of sync when change the inputs on my tv. I have to change the resolution on the Tivo unit to re-sync it. I called the manager and said I am sick of this whole thing. He said that there is no way the problem is with 4 directv unit and the problem is my TV. I told him if he could get the HDMI to work, I would take the unit back and keep mouth shut. So today, I am suppose to take my unit into the store so that he can personally check it to their TVs.

I would have been happy with the component this time if it wasnt acting wacky because I am really sick of this HDMI thing but the component is not right on this unit either. 

I have been trying HDMI connection over and over today to both the HDMI and DVI of my TV with no result. This time, I am going to have them open up the new unit in the store and attach to the TV before I leave.

Will let you know the outcome....

Abbas


----------



## abbas

To Rokytopps - the unit came from Magnolia Hifi in the Northern California. I bought it with a 4 year warranty and at the time of the sale, the salesman told me that I could return it for any reason at all in the four year time. Since I had lost my previous HD within 2 years, I thought it was a great idea. I am sure they never thought I would be bringing the unit back so many times. I have thought about going back to a regular HD unit but I dont think they are willing to give me my money back.


----------



## jbs01

To all those who haven't had a HDMI failure, hold your breath. I received my unit back in May when CC first started shipping. Last week, I got the 16 color screen which then went blank and my Samsung DLP said "DVI - No Signal." Aaarrgghh! While my component output does work, I swear the HDMI -> DVI signal looks much better on my DLP. What follows are my dealings with Directv.

Day 1: Call to the 888-713-7772 number got me quickly passed off to a "higher" level technician who after several periods on hold with his "supervisor" reported that Directv is aware of the problem and a software update is upcoming to fix the HDMI failure. Wouldn't send out a new unit because it's a software, not a hardware problem. As long as my component output was working, I'd just have to live with it until the software repair came out. I hung up and called back getting another tech who passed me off again this time to someone who had me do a total "clear and delete everything" followed by a restart. As he put it, that's the last step before they replace the unit. He couldn't promise that'd fix it, couldn't even say it'd ever fixed another unit, but that was the step he knew to do. I told him I probably had a better chance of fixing the unit by just whacking it on the side with a baseball bat!

Day 2: Called back and reported HDMI was still dead after the clear and restart. This technician was surprised as to why the previous one had me do the clear. The technician did however, get a new unit on the way to me.

Day 3: New unit arrived.

Day 4: Hooked up new unit, allowed it to do all of its setup and downloading of version e. operating system, all with the same results, no HDMI output. Called the 800-695-9251 (2nd level DVR technicians) and got a guy who didn't have a clue what I was even talking about. When I mentioned no signal from my HDMI port, all he could liken it to was "searching for satellites." Fortunately, he did pass me on to a nice sounding female who was totally sympathetic. She put me on hold and walked over to their unit in the office and "couldn't get her HDMI output to die." I asked if she'd just package that unit up and send it to me, but no luck. She didn't want to get "called on the carpet" by sending out another unit, so she has set up a technician to come by the house next Monday with the thought that he might "find something wrong." Yeah, he'll find something wrong... the HDMI output is dead. At least she did say they'd overnight out another unit if the technician couldn't fix it.

Too much fun, eh?


----------



## Weyoun7

> _Originally posted by adamsfbay _
> *More info:
> 
> My HD TiVo arrived three weeks ago from WeakKnees. It's a late September manufacturer date.
> 
> HDMI worked out of the box with my 55" Fujitsu. I have a DVI HD Receiver and an HDMI DVD player running through a DVI switch.
> 
> I babied the TiVo, installing it carefully into my rack, and inserting a Monster HDMI to DVI cable one time, gently. Since then it has remained, untouched, in my media room. Literally nothing has touched the box or the cable connection since. I received both the "d" and "e" software updates in the interim, the last about 1.5 weeks ago.
> 
> Last night I watched a show or two perfectly at 1080i. This AM, after three weeks of perfect functioning, I turn on the TV to see that everything looks as if it's rendered using 4,000 colors - obvious banding. Changed the DVI switch mode, changed the output resolution mode, restarted the TiVo - nothing. Unplugged the HDMI and reinserted it a couple of times. Nothing.
> 
> So - warning to others. The HD TiVo HDMI from a September build might work for almost a month - and die like a dog for no obvious reason.
> 
> This one's going back to WeaKKnees - their service has been EXTRAORDINARY, and I'm very glad I purchased it through them.
> 
> -Adam *


Hi,
I had my DiurecTV HD-TIVO HDMI dead upon arrival. When I contacted the vendor (Solid Signal) I was told that they could not replace a registered (with DirecTV) HD-TIVO and that I should go to DirecTV.

DirecTV only offered no help and failed to replace the unit afte three phone calls and two email messages. A complaint to the Better Business Bereau has also failed to get any reply from DirecTV. To date, DirecTV has failed to honor its warrantee.

Was your unit registered with DirecTV? Is WeakKnees being more cooperative than Solid Signal in replacing a defective HD-TIVO?
Thanks.


----------



## hogfanatico

I purchased my HR10-250 from a local dealer 2 weeks ago. The local dealer was not a nationwide chain but rather a local electronics/home theater specialized store. The HDMI was DOA. The production date on the back of this unit was August 2004. I contacted the dealer and was told they were out of stock and were waiting on new order to arrive and they said they would gladly exchange a new unit for my defective unit. Stock arrived at dealer yesterday and I returned my defective unit for a new one. Asked dealer to test HDMI port to a DVI port on one of the dealer's display TVs to see if all was well before I left store. HDMI to DVI worked fine. Unit has a manufacture date of October 2004. Took unit home and hooked it up to my TV. HDMI to DVI is presently working. I guess it's wait and see at this point.


----------



## mfury88

I've had a second failure on mine after it was working for awhile. But IMO, the HDMI port on those things are SOOO fragile. It seems if you pull that cable the wrong way JUST SLIGHTLY it hoses it. That seems to be my experience. I don't think they'll ever fix the problem. I am sad because I clearly notice a difference on my Panasonic Viera Plasma with the HDMI and the Component. HDMI is much better. Even my wife noticed it. I was hoping she told me it was just my imagination because I am TIRED of returning these damn tivos. What a hassle. Are there any other options for DirecTV? Like can you get a stand alone tivo and a standalone hd receiver? Or do they not make tivo's to record HD yet?


----------



## mfury88

Also, has anyone considered building their own DVR via PC? I think the amount of money I spent on the HDTIVO I could probably build a whopping PC with a nice HDTV video card, etc. Then I'd just need the tuner from DTV.


----------



## abbas

So I took my fourth unit back last week. The manager was not in the store but there was salesguy who had been informed of my problem. So he took my unit out and hooked to a TV with their own HDMI cable. This kid was destined to prove me wrong that the HDMI did not work. He kept saying that there is manual switch to turn it on with but he could not locate one. Then he went thru all the menu options to see if there was toggle there and he could not find one. Since they did not have any more units, he sent me to another store. At this other store, people were much friendlier and nicer. They brought out a new unit for me and connected to a TV. The HDMI seemed to be working so I brought a home. So far it has been 5 days and all seems well... Hopefully this 5th unit will do the trick.


----------



## abbas

With this new (fifth) unit, my OTA reception has been considerably better too. I am getting channels that I was not getting before with the exact same setup. What gives...


----------



## tem

gah .... my HDMI seems to be dead after 2 months. I had disconnected it from my Samsung HLP4663W to test out the Sony LCD projection set that I won in a poker tournament. it initially had massive color problems but seemed to fix itself after warming up a bit. But, when I plugged it back into my Sammy, I get no signal

   

I guess I'll try calling DTV. I may also try and open up the box (there doesn't seem to be a warranty void sticker like on my SAT-T60) and see if I can reseat the connector.


----------



## jinferno

my tivo hd-dvr went bust ( the hdmi quit working) about 3 days ago. after 45 minutes of holds and transfers with D*, my new unit is being shipped tomorrow.

hope this isn't a recurring theme!!!


----------



## BobP007

I've had the HD Tivo for about a month. I recorded a two hour movie and experienced the issues regarding missed portions of the recording. It seems to get digital noise during the scene and then skips to another scene. Out of the two hour movie it looks like we missed over a half hour of the movie....according to the time monitor.

Interestingly, we had another recording set to start immediately after this initial recording and it did not miss anything at all.

Question: is this problem related to the unit being "cold" and diminishes after the unit has been on for a while and had time to warm up? The miss pieces seem to be at the beginning and did seem to diminish as the show progressed.

I keep the unit in standby when not watching it.

Is this a reason to take it back for replacement. We have the four year warranty from BB.

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## tem

got my replacement today ... no dice. Very loose HDMI port that would cut out/solarize with the slightest touch. Another 90 mins on the phone w/ D*.

Unit #3 is on the way.


----------



## tem

> _Originally posted by BobP007 _
> *I've had the HD Tivo for about a month. I recorded a two hour movie and experienced the issues regarding missed portions of the recording. It seems to get digital noise during the scene and then skips to another scene. Out of the two hour movie it looks like we missed over a half hour of the movie....according to the time monitor.
> 
> Interestingly, we had another recording set to start immediately after this initial recording and it did not miss anything at all.
> 
> Question: is this problem related to the unit being "cold" and diminishes after the unit has been on for a while and had time to warm up? The miss pieces seem to be at the beginning and did seem to diminish as the show progressed.
> 
> I keep the unit in standby when not watching it.
> 
> Is this a reason to take it back for replacement. We have the four year warranty from BB.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob *


Were you recording off the satellite or OTA ? What kind of signal strength were you getting ? Was it poor weather ? It could just be rain fade on that particular channel and not the 2nd one.


----------



## mfleming

Ever since I bought and returned my first and only unit many months ago, I've been watching this thread with interest, waiting for the day that DTV acknowledged the problem and announced a fix. I'm incredulous that they have not yet done so, given the expense to their company handling all the returns, and the problems caused to DTV's best customers.

I'm extremely disappointed. I'm not going to order another one until I hear that it is fixed, and given the lack of any progress, it looks like I may never be able to order one.

In light of this, is there ANY other solution on the horizon? The box can't be the only one for the near future, can it?

Is there another manufacturer that will have a similar box in the next few months?

Is there a standalone TIVO (now or in the near future) that I can connect to a DTV (non-Tivo) HD receiver?


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## flinflon

MY HDMI connection just degraded ( I guess some call it solarize). I have signed onto 3 forums and this problem is discussed in all 3 at length. Is there any one reading this from Directv or Tivo who knows what the root cause is? What do they do with the 100's or 1000's or returned boxes to "fix" them? And is there a fix pending? I will call DIRECTV tomorrow when I have more stamina to try to get a new unit sent out.


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## kltazman

I bought the HDTV Unit in September and in November the HDMI output started to fail and Directv sent me a new unit with an HDMI that also does not work. The second tech person at DirecTV told me that they were aware of the problem and that I would be getting a program update when Tivo dials in. My question is, has anyone else heard of this update?


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## flapbreaker

For those of you that are getting replacements from D* do you have their warranty service or are they just doing this out of the kindness of their heart? I've had my HDTivo since may but just now got a tv that had DVI. Hooked it up and nada. So now I don't know who is responsible for this thing.


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## kltazman

It was unclear as to who is owns the warranty at first. I thought it might be another company like RCA. When I first called Directv after my 30 day return policy was up with Best Buy, they said no problem and sent me a new unit, which I thought was very thoughtful. When the unit did not work, they told me that they were the maker of the unit and thus tried to sell me an extended warranty and told me the fix would be uploaded soon. So I guess they are responsible for the year warrenty. With that said I was also told to always check to see if there was a letter E in the updated Operating System update after tivo calls in. I also sent an e-mail to Directv to double check what the Tech person told me. I am crossing my fingers.


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## bewarh

I am experiencing the same problem that several other JVC owners have expressed. My HDMI works upon initial boot but will hang the receiver if I turn off the tv or switch inputs for an extended period of time. After I turn the TV back on I have snow on the screen and the unit is basically hung. None of the buttons on the front or the remote do anything. I will be calling JVC technical folks to see if I can get the HDMI mod and report back.


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## Weyoun7

> _Originally posted by flapbreaker _
> *For those of you that are getting replacements from D* do you have their warranty service or are they just doing this out of the kindness of their heart? I've had my HDTivo since may but just now got a tv that had DVI. Hooked it up and nada. So now I don't know who is responsible for this thing. *


DirecTV is the manufacturer and is responsible for the manufacturer's warranty. They gave me a hard time in getting any response from them when my original HD10-250 HDMI was DOA. I went to the BBB and they sent a letter ti DirecTV. After that I have received good service from DirecTV. I received my 3rd HD10-250 last Friday and it appears to have a functional HDMI output so far. I haven't regisstered it yet with DirecTV as its been doing a burn in over the weekend.


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## cyrusjj

LMAO!!!!!!!!!! I am on my 6th !!!!!!!! and only bought 3 months ago!!!!!
Tivo or phillips or whoever finally said "just keep using the component output and call us every week until they get the issue fixed! BASTIDS. LOL
They were all HDMI dead out of the box.
Why dont all connecters work like BNC or some other aircraft/military fitting?


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## mfury88

I am on my third now and so far there is no PICTURE problem but I am getting an issue with dropping audio. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't HDMI supposed to carry VIDEO AND AUDIO? My TV doesn't seem to get any digital sound when the channels are digital. I am confused. I have to use my optical audio AND HDMI. That seems to be defeating the purpose if you ask me. The dropping audio is REALLY annoying.


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## flinflon

Yes HDMI is supposed to carry video (the equivalent of and compatible with DVI) and audio. I am using an HDMI to DYI converter to connect to my front DLP projector so am not using audio through HDMI. THis is the first HDMI connection I have used and am NOT impressed. I have just contacted Directv to have them replace my HR10-250 because of failed HDMI. They said the recent "e" version of the software was to supposed to "fix" HDMI problems.


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## flinflon

> _Originally posted by kltazman _
> *I bought the HDTV Unit in September and in November the HDMI output started to fail and Directv sent me a new unit with an HDMI that also does not work. The second tech person at DirecTV told me that they were aware of the problem and that I would be getting a program update when Tivo dials in. My question is, has anyone else heard of this update? *


I just spoke to Directv to get a new box due to HDMI failure. They said the recent download of the "e" version of the software was supposed to fix the problem. Apparently it DID NOT.


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## kltazman

I just did a download last night and I did not get the new e softwhere. It sounds like a firmware upgrade, although the tech did not know what firmware was all about. I guess everytime my unit calls in to directv, I have to check to see if it down loaded the new e software.


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## abbas

I have had the 'e' software in my last 5 units and it has not solved anything. 

As for the HDMI carried audio, my Sharp 45 inch kept giving me incompatible audio error on my HD channels. So now I use the HDMI to DVI cable for my video and the optical cable for my audio. The HDMI input on the Sharp from the TIVO unit was also giving a pink hue every so often, that has been eliminated with using the DVI input. 

The quality control on the TIVO units are aweful. I think DirectTV jumped the gun on the release of the unit and was/is hoping that most people just use the component out. 

Anyone know if there is any discrete codes for the resolution change?

Abbas


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## kltazman

I just talked to DirecTV on another issue and I asked the tech person just to conform the new software and he told me that on some of the units they are turning off the HDMI output until they figure out another problem they were having. That is some HDMI connections to DVI were causing the hard drive to burn out. Last, he said the software was not out yet and that it would be a few weeks. I wonder why DirecTV has not made a statement regarding this issue, specially when they claim to be on the cutting edge of technology. They should of expected most people or a good portion of people who spent $1,000 to use this unit will be wanting to use the HDMI output to stay on the cutting edge. Hopefully we will here something from DirecTV in a statement, but I will not hold my breath.


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## flapbreaker

> _Originally posted by kltazman _
> *I just talked to DirecTV on another issue and I asked the tech person just to conform the new software and he told me that on some of the units they are turning off the HDMI output until they figure out another problem they were having. That is some HDMI connections to DVI were causing the hard drive to burn out. Last, he said the software was not out yet and that it would be a few weeks. I wonder why DirecTV has not made a statement regarding this issue, specially when they claim to be on the cutting edge of technology. They should of expected most people or a good portion of people who spent $1,000 to use this unit will be wanting to use the HDMI output to stay on the cutting edge. Hopefully we will here something from DirecTV in a statement, but I will not hold my breath. *


I find it hard to believe that this "tech" knows what he's talking about. Seems like they would notify everyone with an HDTivo before they pull the plug. They would have a slew of calls at to why they lost a video signal. Seems strange to me.


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## kltazman

Just downloaded the new e software and guess what. No Picture I guess another call into DirecTV. I have to aggree, No one knows what is going on over there. If it was not for Sunday Ticket, I would probably get another system altogether. It would be nice if they would just send a notice out to people who own this system as to what to expect instead of all of us trying to figure it out own our own.


----------



## mfury88

> I just talked to DirecTV on another issue and I asked the tech person just to conform the new software and he told me that on some of the units they are turning off the HDMI output until they figure out another problem they were having. That is some HDMI connections to DVI were causing the hard drive to burn out. Last, he said the software was not out yet and that it would be a few weeks. I wonder why DirecTV has not made a statement regarding this issue, specially when they claim to be on the cutting edge of technology. They should of expected most people or a good portion of people who spent $1,000 to use this unit will be wanting to use the HDMI output to stay on the cutting edge. Hopefully we will here something from DirecTV in a statement, but I will not hold my breath.


ROFL!!!! I talked to a tech yesterday and when I called to tell her I had issues she said there was NO KNOWN problems with the HR10-250 that she knew about! WTF! I am working on my 3rd receiver and this time its the audio. Let me ask a question:

Does the optical audio output AND the HDMI work at the same time? Cause I can't very well use optical audio with HDMI and my receiver. I would think the HDMI is ONLY for your TV, correct? I tried taking the optical out from the TV and put it to my receiver but I Was not getting sound at all. I would think thats the proper setup.

Also, the "more advanced" tech I talked to (its clear most of us know MORE than the techs there, sad.) said they were sending out a technician this Saturday. I've never heard of anyone coming out to the house to diagnose this type of problem. Plus he said they would have the HD Tivo if it needs replacing. Thats another thing that I though was not true.

-Matt


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## mfleming

> Also, the "more advanced" tech I talked to (its clear most of us know MORE than the techs there, sad.) said they were sending out a technician this Saturday. I've never heard of anyone coming out to the house to diagnose this type of problem. Plus he said they would have the HD Tivo if it needs replacing. Thats another thing that I though was not true.
> 
> -Matt [/B]


You should print out this entire thread, put it in a binder, and give it to him. Tell him to send it to someone higher up in the company.


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## mfury88

> You should print out this entire thread, put it in a binder, and give it to him. Tell him to send it to someone higher up in the company.


Honestly, thats not a bad idea. Maybe we'll get some straight answers.


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## mfleming

> _Originally posted by mfury88 _
> *Honestly, thats not a bad idea. Maybe we'll get some straight answers. *


This might sound crazy, but what if we ALL printed out the thread, and each and every one of us overnighted it to the President (or some other important person at DTV) on the SAME day. Can you imagine the president getting a couple hundred FedEx packages on the same day! We could come up with a cover letter that we'd all send with it.

I'm serious about this idea.


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## mfury88

> This might sound crazy, but what if we ALL printed out the thread, and each and every one of us overnighted it to the President (or some other important person at DTV) on the SAME day. Can you imagine the president getting a couple hundred FedEx packages on the same day! We could come up with a cover letter that we'd all send with it.
> 
> I'm serious about this idea.


That stuff works. Sometimes the only way to get answers is to send letters because its a physical piece of paper. Today's world of phone calls and emails doesn't get it done sometimes.


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## tivoboy

you know, I am thinking that might be a good idea.
let's print it out and send it certified mail. Doesn't require overnighting, but send it to the president and COO of Directv. I think that might gain some interest.

Anyone care to draft a cover letter, nicely worded of course with the nature of the problem, our extensive efforts to correct it, our understanding that sometimes products don't come out of the womb perfect but reference our concern at having spent 1,000.00$ on a machine that is lacking a large part of the expected and promised functionality? We are certainly willing to work with Directv THROUGH the problem, but are concerned that there needs to be a commitment of either resolution or restitution.

Anyone?


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## mfury88

> ...our understanding that sometimes products don't come out of the womb perfect but reference our concern at having spent 1,000.00$ on a machine that is lacking a large part of the expected and promised functionality? We are certainly willing to work with Directv THROUGH the problem, but are concerned that there needs to be a commitment of either resolution or restitution.


You hit the nail on the head. I think we need to express that we're upset but we are willing to work on it if they are and that we need some answers. That will probably get best results.

Maybe we should start a new topic with a poll on who wants to join in.


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## mfury88

Ok, I've moved this issue to another thread. Hopefully we'll get some responses.


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## abbas

mfury88 - The HDMI cable will work along side the optical. I had to do that for a while as my TV was giving me errors from the HDMI audio.

I think the HD burning out due to HDMI to DVI is load of crap. Why wouldnt it burn out with HDMI to HDMI since the conversion is in the cable? 

Also, to all of you waiting for the 'e' software to fix your problems, it wont. I have gone thru 6 units so far. The HDMI seems to either work or not and does not seem to be based on software. I believe it is a purely hardware issue. I think if it is not working for you now, it may never work. The HDMI input on the back of the TIVO is very touchy and seems to be cheap quality. I know they were having problems with the cables too for a while so you may want to try it with a better quality cable.


----------



## kltazman

I just talked to DirecTV for a 5th time and the woman on the line told me that they are aware that the new e upgrade did not work and they are still working on fixing the problem. She told me to look for a new version which will be greater then 3.1.5e. - maybe an f or g. She also mention to keep the unit in a well ventilated place. Lastly, she mention that they have been getting many calls on this unit. I will most likely buy the extra insurance close to the end of the 1 year warrenty, just in case, or change to another servive if they have high def and Sunday Ticket. .


----------



## mfury88

> She also mention to keep the unit in a well ventilated place


That was another thing I had thought about for my audio dropout problems. I noticed, according to the settings, that the unit temp was 51C (which is normal apparently) but it is in a shelving unit with a DVD player underneath it and the above shelf only and inch or two above it.


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## kltazman

Abbas. Have any of the six units you had worked at all? My old one worked for almost two months, then the color went crazy to the point of the Bizarro world. 

As for the optical, I only used the HDMI to DVI for Video and I use the Optical for sound through my amv 30 processor. With that said, I could not tell if my new box delivered sound through the optical when I was in HDMI mode, but it does work under comp. mode for sure.

I guess the only question is, what does one do if they can't fix the HDMI problem. To think, I loaned out my HD Zenith with a DVI that does work.


----------



## kimsan

I decided to get off the fence and try my hand at the game. Component video is okay, but a weak (loses lock) OTA tuner 1 has gotten to be very problematic. Most programs are showing reruns, so it's a fine time to enter the fray.

Since it came from CC and has their extended warranty, I called their CityAdvantage number. Very courteous CSR and while obviously from (or still on) the Indian sub-continent, we had no communications issues. Told to expect a refurbished unit/return shipping authorization in 3-5 working days. Okay by me.

Today I got home to a phone message from CC. To paraphrase, bring the unit and accessories to CC and they will handle the exchange. It's a nuisance, but I should be able to get it done tomorrow.

I'd prefer testing a fresh unit at home and deciding whether or not to accept it, but I think we'll be doing an in-store test of HDMI outputs before I leave.

Details (born date, sw version, etc) to follow.


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## abbas

kltazman - the first unit I had was DOA with the HDMI. The second unit HDMI worked after a couple of days it kept telling me the unit had overheated (blue screen with instruction to unplug....). The unit was cool to the touch. I followed the directions but the screen kept coming back. The third unit had the same overheating screen problem. The fourth unit, HDMI switched in and out randomly. Fifth unit, HDMI DOA. Presently on 6th unit, no problems with anything so far.

Abbas


----------



## Guest

This is really funny! Can you imagine if these were toasters? Burnt toast here and toast that would not pop out and untoasted toast ect....
GE would have a world wide recall. 
At some point you would think that Direct TV would admit that they have a ******** on their hands. This is bad for business. Very bad for Tivo.
If you were to talk to Tivo and mention the problems with the 10-250 they would be very quick to inform you that this is not their box. 
Even Dish network dropped production of their 921 HD PVR. They even slashed the price by 50%! 
I went through three units in three weeks. Different problems every time.
I returned the last unit to my store and I felt that they had forms already filled out for the returns because of all the units they have been getting back.
My sales guy said that the 10-250 was the most returned electronic item that they had. They have decided not to push this receiver any more. This coming from a nationwide retailer. 
I would like to be a fly on the wall at the next board meeting. He He...


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## flapbreaker

Called directv about my lack of video out the HDMI and was told to try buying a new cable first. If that didn't work then they would send a new one. Since it's direcTv's PVR shouldn't they send me a new cable? Oh well I guess I'll humor them. Has this actually worked for anyone?


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## TomRaz

There have been previous posts where they suggested buy a new cable and they were reimburse you for the cost of the cable if it did not fix the problem. 

Correct me unless I am wrong, but didn't the hdmi cable come with the HD Tivo to start with ?

Why wouldn't they send you a cable ?


----------



## flapbreaker

> _Originally posted by TomRaz _
> *There have been previous posts where they suggested buy a new cable and they were reimburse you for the cost of the cable if it did not fix the problem.
> 
> Correct me unless I am wrong, but didn't the hdmi cable come with the HD Tivo to start with ?
> 
> Why wouldn't they send you a cable ? *


That's my point. The cable came with the unit. They do say that they will re-imberse me for the cable (I'm assuming with a credit to my directv account). I think they should send a cable out to me.


----------



## kltazman

The fun just never ends. When the Fed-X guy came to my office to pick up my broken Tivo, he told me that he picks up at least three on his route a week. With all the routes together in his office, they are flooded with these Tivo boxes. It is funny when you have your Fed-X man telling you to just return it and get your money back. What a waste. I am going to ask for another unit when they receive the first bad unit.


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## jmorgis

My HDMI is deal also, first it was pink, and now no video at all. 

Is there any idea from DTV on when a verified fix is coming?

John Morgis


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## kltazman

It is hard to say. Eveytime I call D-TV I get a slightly different answer. Some of us have had to try up to 6 units before they get one that that has an HDMI that works. My first one worked for about 2 months then the HDMI died. To be positive, with the comp. video and the Toslink in my stereo it is still a pretty good experience. If the issue is not fixed, that is what we are left with. The choice I have is go back to no TiVo with a Zenith HD Receiver with a DVI that has worked with no problems and is noticeably better than the comp video or use the comp video on the defective box with TiVo. 

Has anyone receive any commpensation from DirectV?


----------



## kimsan

Reinstalled the original single HD and trotted off to the "local" (40 miles away) CC to exchange my unit.

No quibble about exchange and no problem with me doing an in-store HDMI to Samsung Hl-P4663W demo. First unit had "posterized" output. Showed the sales drone that component would look fine.

Second unit was *almost* sold, but the buyer decided to opt for caution and test it. Sales drone strongly agreed, much to his credit. Different Samsung as the monitor, but more "posterized" results.

Just to prove it was a HR10-250 issue and not incompatibility with Samsung, he tried a different make/model monitor with HDMI. Same results.

While I may not have cured my on problem, I managed to take two failing units out of circulation prior to ownership.

Plugged back in the dual drives and my unit is back in operation at home. Sill component, but better than no HDTiVo for now.

Oh yeah, the 02 Sep 04 born date means these have been in the warehouse or on shalves for a couple months already. Maybe the next shipment will be newer and fixed.


----------



## flapbreaker

> _Originally posted by kimsan _
> *Reinstalled the original single HD and trotted off to the "local" (40 miles away) CC to exchange my unit.
> 
> No quibble about exchange and no problem with me doing an in-store HDMI to Samsung Hl-P4663W demo. First unit had "posterized" output. Showed the sales drone that component would look fine.
> 
> Second unit was *almost* sold, but the buyer decided to opt for caution and test it. Sales drone strongly agreed, much to his credit. Different Samsung as the monitor, but more "posterized" results.
> 
> Just to prove it was a HR10-250 issue and not incompatibility with Samsung, he tried a different make/model monitor with HDMI. Same results.
> 
> While I may not have cured my on problem, I managed to take two failing units out of circulation prior to ownership.
> 
> Plugged back in the dual drives and my unit is back in operation at home. Sill component, but better than no HDTiVo for now.
> 
> Oh yeah, the 02 Sep 04 born date means these have been in the warehouse or on shalves for a couple months already. Maybe the next shipment will be newer and fixed. *


kimsan,

If I understand you correctly you had an upgraded HDTivo with a bad HDMI. you put the original back in and when you got the replacement you were able to just put the two "married" drives in the new unit no problem? Did you have to do anything special to the new unit in order for it to work? I've been told from people on this forum that I would need to do a "clear and delete" function once I put the two drives in which of course would delete any programs. Also did you activate the tivo through D* before adding the two drives? Thanks.


----------



## kimsan

> _Originally posted by flapbreaker _
> *kimsan,
> 
> If I understand you correctly you had an upgraded HDTivo with a bad HDMI. you put the original back in and when you got the replacement you were able to just put the two "married" drives in the new unit no problem? Did you have to do anything special to the new unit in order for it to work? *


Maybe I came across wrongly. Since the units in the store had "posterized" HDMI, I chose to bring my *original* HDTiVo back home.



> *I've been told from people on this forum that I would need to do a "clear and delete" function once I put the two drives in which of course would delete any programs.*


That's my understanding as well. To keep the programming leftovers I had to keep the original unit.



> *Also did you activate the tivo through D* before adding the two drives? Thanks. *


With the original unit? Yes. Had I found a working new unit, I *would* have activated it with its single drive, run it a couple days to make sure s/w was current, and set up Season Passes and Wish Lists. Then I would have pulled the drive, burnt a backup image, and expanded it onto the twin drives.

Hope that clears things up.


----------



## rchilelli

> _Originally posted by flapbreaker _
> *That's my point. The cable came with the unit. They do say that they will re-imberse me for the cable (I'm assuming with a credit to my directv account). I think they should send a cable out to me. *


Just got of the phone with D* and was advised they recognize the problem. No ETA but gave me a $150 credit for my cable and noted my account that I would receive a new unit when BOTH the hardware and software problems have be resolved. Also gave me some Senior Support # which I may give a call. Using components now...without any problems.


----------



## Curt

I just got off the phone with one of D*'s "HD technicians". They're aware of the problem and the attitude that I got was that it was pretty much my problem. Didn't want to send a new unit or credit - "it still shows your programming so there's really nothing wrong with it". Told him I was done talking to him and wanted a supervisor - 8 minutes later he comes back and says they'll send a new receiver.

I am definately going to go look at Voom when they release their new HD PVR.


----------



## jinferno

just got my replacement hd-dvr. so far, so good!
will keep my fingers crossed


----------



## knoxbh

Just received my 6th (SIXTH) HR10-250. Unbelievable - this is since my first one obtained on 7 Sep from Value Electronics. Each one has been made in Mexico and last 4 were made in Sept. The first 5 had the picture/sound freeze problem on HD programs. The 6th one arrived yesterday and hooked up today. Guess what - when using the HDMI to DVI cable the color goes to bright yellow on colors that should be white! When using component cables, the color is correct. I called DirecTV and got boosted up to tech area and tried several things to correct the problem (like the usual unplug, shut off everything, etc) but nothing changed the problem. Was told they knew of problems like this and MIGHT be corrected with future downloads. Told the lady (who was very nice) that I already knew that the problem was hardware, not software. She said to keep it and keep checking to see if it had been corrected. Of course, I know it won' be and will never know if the picture/sound freeze is still bad on this one as can't use the HDMI cable anyway. And since it was made in Sept, I am sure the problem will continue. Has anyone else had the color problem?


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## flinflon

Yes, I did.The colors seemed to have incorrect rendering. I could see the figures fine and computer graphics used on business and sports programs were very legible. I had several discussions with D*. I concluded the most likely cause was that the HDMI board became improperly seated ( this was a problem that developed several days after I got the unit working). D* apparently recognizes this problem. However it is also clear they also have problems that they are working on software to fix. It apparently will be in a version higher than "E" which in itself was supposed to fix HDMI problems. I have had my new unit working for 3 days. The HDMI output will not display a picture on 480i resolution but the picture is fine on other resolutions. I have not contacted D* on the 480i problem yet. I am waiting until I get the "E" version of the software to see if that fixes it and may wait for the next version since I prefer to use 1080i anyway. But if no fix is coming I will ask for anther exchange. I think the timing will be important to get a box that has the physical shortcomings eliminated which will take a month or so to get into the manufacturng process and get through the distribution supply chain. So a box made in Dec. might qualify. My first box was Oct and the latest one is Sept. so I have regressed.


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## feldon23

Dunno if it's already been posted, but someone should post a list of serial numbers with 4 of the middle digits fuzzed out for each HDMI-affected unit. Then when people get one of these units, they can point DirecTV to the website.


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## Minge

I can now join the group of HDMI victims! I have the "color" issue with my whites being pink. I have a new one on the way. I have a new one on the way. I only have HDMI wired to my new projector but hooked up the receiver to my old rear projection using the component and S-video with no problems. Why me!!


----------



## Superbone

Hi, just got my Hughes HD DVR-250 at the end of November. Hooked it up to my Sony 60" LCD Rear-Projection via the HDMI port and had a fantastic picture.

The next day, I notice sometimes I turn the TV on and the whole picture is tinted purple. I flip through the video inputs and the picture color is corrected.

A week later, I move some of my components around unhook and rehook them up. I turn on my TV and the picture looks like an impressionism painting! What happened? I start troubleshooting and my picture gets worse and worse until finally the screen goes black.

Very disappointing. I hook up my component cables and the picture is fine albeit not as nice as it was originally through HDMI.

Anyway, that's where my HDMI journey started. I call DirecTV and I finally get to the point where they're going to send me another unit... Then, somehow I get put on hold. Forever... I finally hang up and call back and talk to somebody else and he tells me they know about the problem and that they're working on a software solution.

Is this true? Can software fix the HDMI port?

I finally log onto this site tonight and see that this is a big issue out there. Where can I go to get details about the issue? Is there a FAQ? Please enlighten me. Thanks in advance.


----------



## chrism131

My HD Tivo only 5 days old has begun to show me the pink screen of death whenever I try to change the aspect ratio or change from full to letter box. 

It is not the HDMI cord. I spent $150 on a brand new one when I purchased the unit. Other outputs work fine. I did get the warranty from BB, so I guess, I won't have to wait for a new one. 

Still sucks!!!


----------



## Minge

This is rediculaous. I just wired my basement and a new projector and I wanted to fish just one HDMI wire to the projector and work everything through a HDMI video switch. Now because of this mess I am going to be spending my weekend fishing coponent wires to it...

This is BS!


----------



## kltazman

I just talked to D* and finally a person did tell me that the HDMI problem was not a software related. What she did tell me was that units assembled before November had HDMI ports that were becoming "unseated" and the problem was taken care of in the new shipments dated November. Hopefully, my next box will from November and hopefully it will work.

Has anyone had HDMI failures on November boxes?


----------



## rlichts

I talked to D* and they also told me they would be corrected in late November, but I should order a replacement in December, to fix the "unseated HDMI" problem.


----------



## rlichts

It seems everyone is having the same problem on HDMI - they told me it is NOT a software issue and is in the HDMI port becoming unseated.


----------



## Superbone

Hmm... I opened up my unit this morning and unseated and reseated the HDMI port with no luck. I think I'll try one more time tonight and if I don't have any luck, demand a new unit from D*.


----------



## Budget_HT

Next question is, can the older units be repaired/refurbished to solve this problem? In another thread the problem was reported as a cold (or bad) solder joint on the HDMI board, IIRC.


----------



## mfleming

> _Originally posted by rlichts _
> *I talked to D* and they also told me they would be corrected in late November, but I should order a replacement in December, to fix the "unseated HDMI" problem. *


Right. 

DirecTV is nothing but a pack of liars. I was sold by their promises of better customer service if I switched from Pegasus to DTV this summer. Ever since then, I and all other former Pegasus customers have not been able to order PPV movies from the remote or from the web site (see multipe threads on this forum about this). We can only call to order, which usually results in 30 - 60 minutes of being transferred around or hung up on because the reps can't figure out our account. Every month they tell us it will be fixed the very next month. Every next month, they tell us the same thing plus 30 days. They lie. No, the CSR don't lie because they don't know anything. But those higher up lie to them.

I would not believe their promise of a fix for this for a second. I am only hoping for some other manufacturer to come out with a similar product at some future date.


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## abbas

It is very unlikely that the problem is due to software. It seems to be entirely a hardware issue. I dont buy it that it was due to the unseating of the HDMI card. If your machine is working why would it suddenly stop working if you have not moved. How can something unseat itself?!?! I could understand that being the problem if you had a DOA unit.


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## kltazman

All I can do is wait and see if I get a November unit and give it a try and pray that it works. If it does not work, I am not going to hold my breathe until the HDMI it dies of a heart attach.


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## Superbone

For me, I can kind of buy the "unseated" explanation. Because it was working for me until I unhooked the HDMI, moved my unit, and then rehooked the HDMI. I then immediately had the 16 color dithering and then the picture went away as I messed with the connection.

It could be an unseating or the HDMI port could become easily shorted.

However, I did re-seat my port with no luck. I ran out of time but I'm going to try the "wedge a piece of plastic" solution in there when I've got a chance.


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## Watchguy

My first unit arrived early August from VE Hdmi dead on arrival. DTV replaced that unit 2nd day shipping. 2nd unit HDMI also DOA. DTV still not admitting any problems sent another replacement. Third unit was the charm wow it worked. No problems with HDMI I got a noticably better picture on my Mitsubishi 65" than with the componant output. This last Monday Sat 1 tuner failed. DTV overnigthed me a new unit. guess what HDMI DOA. I called DTV and the CSR told me that they were aware of a software issue which would be fixed soon. I told the CSR that he should not feel guilty about lying to me about the HDMI hardware issue because I knew he was just following orders. " Long Pause" Then he stated they were working on the problem. I'm going to wait until after the first of the year to try my 5 th unit


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## unixadm

From THIS THREAD:



> _Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer _
> *HR10-250s manufactured after November 22, 2004 should not have any HDMI problems.
> 
> Engineering found a weak solder joint on the HDMI board. The problem is solved on all new production HR10-250!!!
> 
> -Robert *


----------



## dsinder

I'll share my HD Tivo story. I special ordered one through my local circuit city on 9/15. Having read about all the problems I wanted to be able to return the thing to real store if there were problems. For good measure I purchased the CC extended warrenty plan. It worked ok. Or as well as these things work anyway. The user interface is intolerably slow. Two weeks ago the HDMI output died. So I hauled it back to the store where I got it. They told me I'd have to call CC service to get it replaced. When I called I think I got someone in India judging from the "hold music" and the fact that I had a real hard time understanding what he was saying. After about 50 minutes he decided he had to transfer me to someone else to finish things up. They disconnected me in the process. By this point in time they had everything they needed except my credit card number. So I went back to CC and asked them to make the arrangments through the store. They finally reluctantly agreed. So I stood there for about 45 minutes while the sales manager tried to deal with it on the phone. They transfered him too. He was then told that the computers in one place were not talking to the computers in another place and there was nothing they could do right now. They agreed to take my cell phone number and call me back when they could do something.

I got the return call later that day while I was driving in heavy traffic. I told them I was in traffic and could not safely talk then and the please call me back in one hour when I would be at home. No call came. The next moring I called them again. I got a very nice helpfull lady who tried to help me but again discovered the computers were not talking to one another. She took my number and said she would keep working on the problem and call me back. She called back less that an hour later and started by telling me that my replacement had now been cancelled. I started to object but she stopped me short and explained that they did not have any replacment units but that she had just spoken with the manager at my CC store and had arranged for a new unit to be shipped there. About 15 minutes later the CC store manager called and confirmed.

On Sunday I got a call that my replacement was in. I picked it up and took it home. When I plugged it in I found that the Tivo start up displays looked like hell. Posterized, yellow where there should have been white... I shut it down and made sure the connections were tight. But it looked the same when I restarted it. So I hauled it back to the CC store. I asked for my old unit back since it had stuff recorded that I could still watch via component out. But they told me that for some reason they had been shipped TWO units not just one. So they exchanged for the second replacment unit.

When I got the second replacment home it was exactly like the first except that there was magenta where the yellow had been with the first replacment. I decided to go ahead and have this one activated on the chance that this was an encryption issue that activation would take care. Of course it did not.

So I called DirecTV. They first told me to purchase a new cable. After my dismissing that they forwarded me to a higher grade of tech suppport. They admitted that there was a "software issue". They said they were working on it. I asked when they estimated it would be ready. They had no answer. They told me that the problem started appearing first about a month ago and they it weas not affecting all HR10-250s and it did not matter what version of software wsa involved. I responded that that did not sound like a software problem at all but rather a hardware problem. They denied this.

Finally I said, "Here is what I see. I have a $1000 piece of hardware that is not performing according to its published specs. There is either a hardware defect or you have broken it by remote control with software. In either case, I expect you to fix it or refund my purchase price." Long pause. He then indicated that I should just take it back to CC for a refund there. I explained that I had had the box since mid september and that we are well past the 30 day CC return policy. I did not want to have to go to CC and have a long drawn out process with them. I asked that DirecTV contact CC and prepare the way for the return. The Tech told me there was no way to do that. I told them I'd try to return it to CC but if they would not do it they would be hearing from me again.

So on Monday I went to CC. As you can imagine they just said it's past 30 days, we don't do refunds after thirty days. I finally got them to listen to some reason and they agreed to talk to DirecTV and verify what I was telling them and get back to me within 2 days. They did not get back to me in 2 days so I had to call them. They told me I could continue to use the component out. Problem is that my DVI is has been professionally calibrated, the component has not. In the two days since I've also discovered that the three other devices I can connect via DVI all now produce markedly poorer images that before I connected these defective HR10-250 Tivos. I'm wondering about burned CRTs.

Anyway, last night CC finally agreed to accept a return of my original purchase and refund my money. I hauled the thing into the store at 12:30. I soon found them in mass confusion. Their computer indicated I still owed them $1000 and when they did the return it just set the balance to 0. It took over an hour for them to straighten it out. Everyone there agreed they owed me $1000 but it took them an hour figure out how to do it. Finally, I asked the store manager to hold on to the two other defective units while I deteriming whether or not they had damaged my RPTV.

So today I read that DirecTV has found and fixed (as of 11/22/04) a production hardware defect that was at the heart of this (or so we think today). In the mean time DirecTV seems to have been lying to us - continuing advertise, sell, and ship defective products.


----------



## Minge

Does anyone know how many of these "potentially" defective units are out there?


----------



## sotapoppy

> _Originally posted by Minge _
> *Does anyone know how many of these "potentially" defective units are out there? *


ummm "potentially" I'd say at least everyone with a born on date before 11/22/04.


----------



## drjeckl

From THIS THREAD:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer 
HR10-250s manufactured after November 22, 2004 should not have any HDMI problems.

Engineering found a weak solder joint on the HDMI board. The problem is solved on all new production HR10-250!!!

-Robert 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Robert, This is great news! What do you know about what will happen next? Acknowledgment by D*? If it's just the card, I don't see the need for a recall; just a site visit by a tech should do it. When do you think we will know what D*'s game plan will be announced? And when are the CSRs gonna take the "software patch will fix the problem" out of circulation? That comeback has got to go down in the annuls of tech history as the biggest crock of s**t to be handed out by a service company as large as D*.

Had mine since August, with a July born date. Croaked when I moved the unit. Tore the cover off and reseated the card and got it working again. Moved it again last week and can't resurrect it. reverted to component. Waiting for the official fix which looks like its on the way. YoooHooo. Connected to my Sammy HLP5063W, component is not nearly as good as HDMI. So hopefully there's a light at the end of the tunnel for the New Year!!!! Yeah baby.

.jce


----------



## Lone Wolf

I have 4 HDTiVo's

Bear with me as I explain this...

I have been reading all the horror stories here about the failed HDMI ports. I've been doing some experimenting to try and figure out what the problem is from a simple perspective. That means what I can do without opening the lids and using instruments to get reading of things.

I have a Gefen 4x1 DVI switch and a Crystalio (a video processor/scaler) that the HDTiVo's go through via the HDMI to DVI cable before getting to my projector. The Gefen is great because it turns the HDMI port off of the ones not selected. (Example: If I select Input 1, then I can watch the component outputs of 2 through 4. Component is distributed to the whole house.)

I would leave the Gefen on Input 1 and turn the Crystalio off. All of the component outs would then become active because the Crystalio shuts off the remaining HDMI port.

Here's where I am going with this...

I would normally watch HDTiVo #1, then turn my Crystalio and projector off. Everything would be fine when I came back later. This has been this way for 4 months, then suddenly one day, HDTiVo #1 had a blank screen and nothing was working from it. It seemed like it had gone to sleep, no response, no picture, nothing. I had to unplug the machine. It was running but didn't record what it was scheduled to. The other 3 still worked great. After the reboot, everything has been great.

But, I have been on pins and needles waiting for one of them to fail.

My buddy has one and he was hit with the same sleeping problem I have, when the HDMI is selected, but the TV is off. When the HDMI cable is disconnected, and he hooks it up via component, it works fine.

So, I have been following this forum regularly and decided I would do some experimenting. 

First thing I did was have my buddy disconnect his phone line and see if the sleeping problem went away and if the HDMI continued to work. Problem solved. No more sleeping. Conclusion, something strange with the phone line is wreaking some havoc with the HDMI port.

I decided to be the brave one selecting one of my HDTiVo's, #4, as a guinea pig to do the experimenting on. I would hook the phone line up to it and every night make sure I selected HDTiVo #4 on the GEFEN DVI switch before I turned the projector and Crystalio off. This morning the HDMI finally went out on it, no picture, after just a few days of trying this. 

The other three work fine. I don't have a conclusion yet, but my early hypothesis is that something has to be going on between the phone line and the HDMI port. 

While I acknowledge the news about the unseated HDMI card, I am trying to get to the bottom as to why they would fail when you don't touch the machine and I have 3 that work fine.

Chris


----------



## Superbone

So, once we finally get a working unit, can we just swap hard drives to keep existing recordings and settings?

I messed with my machine to no avail last night. HDMI port says it's not connected.


----------



## rdtex

Well I finally bought my HD Tivo yesterday and connected it via HDMI-DVI cable on a NEC VP4 plasma and I get the screen "powering up" and then the screen goes blank and I get "Illegal Signal" displayed briefly on the screen. Could this be causethis display not being HDCP compliant??

I connected the HD Tivo to my Dell widecreen LCD TV W1700 with the same connection setup,it works fine, but not on 1080i setting. On 720p it looks great. I'll call NEC tech support Mon. to see if HDCP is the problem. I thought HDCP involved random broadcasts signals sent to prevent copying, right? 

I'm using it with component for now and it still looks great. My build date is 10/19/04. I'm probably going to mention to the manager at Best Buy about the fix that supposedly implemented on units built after Nov. 22 and ask him if I can swap it out after about 30 days with the hopes of getting one with HDMI modification applied. I've been using the MIT HD120 Hi Def pci tuner card in my HTPC and it works well for the most part but the software can be a bit buggy as it misses timer recordings often.

If anyone has any ideas about this "illegal signal", please post.

Thanks in advance, Rod


----------



## molitor4

After months of holding off, I purchased a new HD Tivo with a WEGA yesterday afternoon. Come home and plug HDMI to HDMI and fire up and the screen is blank. I have the proper input selected on the TV, but nothing displays on the screen at all. 

Decided to try the component hook-ups and everything worked perfectly. Went back to HDMI and it is still blank. Called D* and found someone who, after placing me on hold, said that the problem was a "software" problem and that there would be a fix around the beginning of the new year. He mentioned that I look at the Tivo website for an update which directed me to this fantastic site. 

My dilemma : Should I take my HD Tivo back to the store where I purchased it tomorrow and see if I get a lucky model ? Run with component until the beginning of the year and hope the fix works ? After reading on this forum, D* seems to be decent enough at sending out a box, but it seems like taking it to the local store might be worth a spin (maybe to just get another and purchase the extended warranty).

Any opinion on this ?


----------



## T_Bro

> _Originally posted by sotapoppy _
> *ummm "potentially" I'd say at least everyone with a born on date before 11/22/04. *


Where on the HR10-250 do you find the full date of production. The date on mine near the plug on back only says Oct 04 Mexico.


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## flapbreaker

> _Originally posted by molitor4 _
> *After months of holding off, I purchased a new HD Tivo with a WEGA yesterday afternoon. Come home and plug HDMI to HDMI and fire up and the screen is blank. I have the proper input selected on the TV, but nothing displays on the screen at all.
> 
> Decided to try the component hook-ups and everything worked perfectly. Went back to HDMI and it is still blank. Called D* and found someone who, after placing me on hold, said that the problem was a "software" problem and that there would be a fix around the beginning of the new year. He mentioned that I look at the Tivo website for an update which directed me to this fantastic site.
> 
> My dilemma : Should I take my HD Tivo back to the store where I purchased it tomorrow and see if I get a lucky model ? Run with component until the beginning of the year and hope the fix works ? After reading on this forum, D* seems to be decent enough at sending out a box, but it seems like taking it to the local store might be worth a spin (maybe to just get another and purchase the extended warranty).
> 
> Any opinion on this ? *


The problem with getting a new one with an HDMI port that works is that many people have had it "go out" too. So there's no gaurantee that even if you get one that works that it will keep working. I too get a blank screen with mine. D* is responsible for this unit for 1 year so I am waiting to see if they fix it otherwise when I get near the one year mark I'm going to make them send a new one and then I'll keep doing that until they replace it with something that works. I can't believe that D* hasn't sent letters out to all HD TIvo owners letting them know that they are aware of the problem and letting us know how they plan on fixing it. I believe a class action lawsuit on behalf of all HD Tivo owners is in order. I cannot think of any other electronic product at this price range that has had a known defect and having nothing done by the manufacturer to correct the problem.


----------



## gradpa

I would like to see the pic.. I am having the same probelm with mine.
[email protected]
thanks



> _Originally posted by falstaffpac _
> *I wanted to share with you what I did to correct this problem. My results were based on pbolya's success discussed earlier in this thread. My HDMI stopped working after the addition of the TwinBreeze last week, I've since been using component. I decided to try a few things tonight. First I removed the screws anchoring the HDMI card and unseated the card from the circuit board. I then re-seated and tried applying pressure to different points on the card, none of which resulted in a picture.
> 
> I then straightened the anchoring pin and applied forward pressure on the card with a small screwdriver. When pressure was applied about 7/8 down the back of the card, the picture came on. I then took a small peice of metal and wedged it between the anchoring pin and the HDMI card. Presto, picture. My picture has been very stable since. I've unplugged the HDMI cable several times and always get a picture when I re-insert the cable.
> 
> I'm not trying to advocate that any of you do this, but for those of you who have already voided your warranty, I give you the solution which worked for me. Be very careful tinkering inside your Tivo if you have power going to it. I got a jolt when sliding the lid back on. I did take a picture so you can see what I did, but I can't get it posted. I will forward it to anyone who wants to see it.
> 
> Now, about those darn logos....
> 
> Cheers,
> Falstaffpac *


----------



## Jim Reardon

A brand new HR10-250, right out of the box (born: 10/4/04 in Mexico), has horrible HDMI output (crawling color speckles upon misplaced color). Of course, component output works perfectly.

But then a little informed investigation... First, eliminate the TV (Sharp Aquos 26). Hooked up a DVI-compatible computer FPD and found the same horrible output. Since this test required that I use the other cable (thanks for including it), this test also eliminated the cable as a potential source of the problem.

So off with the top of the DVR and examine the HDMI interface circuitry... A small circuit card mounted virtually at the back of the DVR motherboard contains the HDMI interface. No surprises here, a Silicon Image HDMI chip... basically a copy of SIMG reference design for the part. Mine says, "Made in Thailand."

I start up the DVR with the top off (not recommended). It comes up as usual with bad HDMI output. Then I gently "manipulated" the card and whoops... it works! Perfect picture. But when not is being man-handled, the picture is bad. So I completely remove the card, inspect the connector and socket, clean both very carefully, reassemble, and no change. Then I detached the mounting bracket from the HDMI card (to better free the card from the surrounding chassis), and retried test. Unfortunately, the same result. When the card is being held bent to the right (disk) side of the box, the HDMI output is picture-perfect. However, there is no practical or safe way to keep it in that position.

Now for the fun part:

I put it all back together and called Directv to get a replacement. First contact says, "I know nothing about HD." Refers me to "second level". Transfers call (thankfully, quick hand-off). Second-level person admits straight-away that there is a problem with HDMI. She informs me that I'll have to wait for a _software upgrade_ before they will replace the unit! I gently explained that no software would rectify the observed behavior, but she was not to be deflected from policy.

Could Directv be using this software story as a ruse to hold-off customers while they struggle for a fix? Are they starting to be flooded with returns as new HDMI-compatible displays start to hit the street?

The type of thing I observed in this unit certainly shouldn't take them long to correct in manufacturing. But looking at posts on this site, it appears that units build from April through October of 2004 all have the problem! How can this be? Even the customer service person says they have been dealing with the problem since Summer!

Finally, after a few more minutes of friendly discussion, it is decided that I'll use the component output "for now" and call back in March or April 2005 for service, since they are unable to advise on when the "software upgrade" is going to be available. I assured them that I would not let my 1 year warranty lapse without seeing this problem resolved.

This is an utterly ridiculous position for a business to take. Assuming they have had eight months to investigate and correct this issue, and yet it remains uncorrected, one has to assume they are not planning to fix it!

Is it possible that they are betting that a small percentage of users actually require HDMI; most HD TV equipment still offers component input as well? That may have been a useful strategy last April, but I bet it blows up in their face in 2005. HDMI is appearing all over the place this Christmas.

As in my case, there is a workaround. But there is no question that the picture quality provided over HDMI or DVI (when it works) is visibly superior the picture provided via the component interface. No question about it.

Asking that a customer settle for an inferior workaround on a $1000 consumer product is on par with lying to your customers about the root cause of technical problems. So much for that JD Power satisfaction award... And so much for my satisfaction with my Christmas present  .

Jim


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## Larry Chanin

Hi Jim,

Sorry to hear that your getting the run-around from the company that's supposed to have won the JD Power Customer Satisfaction award three years in a row.

As long as some HD TiVo's HDMI connections work, I don't see how DIRECTV can legally take the position of not offering an immediate replacement on a device that doesn't work as advertised.

Perhaps you need to go higher in the DIRECTV hierarchy.

Good luck.

Larry


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## kltazman

I would call back and talk to someone else for a new unit. Here is the number of the 2nd level tech. (800) 695-9251 Department who orders the units. I talked to two people there and they told me that is was not a sotfware issue and ordered me another unit, which I am still waiting for. I only hope it is a Nov 22 unit. Don't wait, have a HDMI Holiday.


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## T_Bro

> _Originally posted by Jim Reardon _
> *
> 
> Is it possible that they are betting that a small percentage of users actually require HDMI; most HD TV equipment still offers component input as well? That may have been a useful strategy last April, but I bet it blows up in their face in 2005. HDMI is appearing all over the place this Christmas.
> 
> Jim *


Direct is betting wrong in not quickly resolving this issue. The s*** will hit the fan for them in January when Christmas purchase complaints start to come in. Retail stores are all pushing HD, digital, and HDMI for Christmas. 2005 will be the year most average consumers will make the switch to HD. One of the reasons I see this happening is I was in Wal-Mart yesterday. Wal-Mart now has a large section of their electronics department displaying HDTV technology. WM will push prices of HDTV sets lower and allow consumers at lower income levels to switch to HDTV. This will also increase the demand for more HD content (broadcast, cable, DBS and DVD), and accessory devices like HD Tivo and DVD players.


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## kltazman

What I found interesting is that I bought my HD TiVo at Best Buy and I ask if they have seen many returns and they said non at all. I didn't believe it, but I ask several people on several different occasions and the man working at the return desk told me he did see other TiVo returns, just not the HD TiVo. I wonder if some of the people just went straight to D* with their problems like me and bypassed the store. The Best Buy in this case is in Pleasant Hill, CA.

Who knows? Anyway, still waiting for my next unit. It has been over a week ans still waiting.


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## Superbone

I'm going to wait a little while before I order the replacement. I want to make sure I've got one of the Nov. 22 units or newer. I don't want to have to go through this more than once.

It's a real shame the way they are handling this though. Shame on you D*.


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## tanasi

I turned on my TV tonight and the HDMI output was hosed. The display had turned a pinkish hue. Pushing on the side of the HDMI connector on the box cleared up the problem but as soon as I let go the pink came back.

I called (800) 695-9251 and spoke to a person straight away with no waiting and in five minutes I have a new unit on the way. This will be the second replacement. My first unit HDMI was dead out of the box. I have already voted in the poll so I can't add another failure to the totals.

Now it is back to the inferior component output until the replacement arrives. Thank goodness for this forum. With my first replacement unit I got the run around for two hours, one person even hanging up on me, until I got a replacement authorized.


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## dsinder

My advice is to take the HDTivo back to the place of purchase and demand your money back. Then wait for positive proof from monitoring this forum that DirecTV has fixed the problem. Then and only then buy another if you wish.



> _Originally posted by molitor4 _
> *...
> My dilemma : Should I take my HD Tivo back to the store where I purchased it tomorrow and see if I get a lucky model ? Run with component until the beginning of the year and hope the fix works ? After reading on this forum, D* seems to be decent enough at sending out a box, but it seems like taking it to the local store might be worth a spin (maybe to just get another and purchase the extended warranty).
> 
> Any opinion on this ? *


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## Kbert5

<<What I found interesting is that I bought my HD TiVo at Best Buy and I ask if they have seen many returns and they said non at all. I >>

The salesman at UE gave me the same line a week ago.


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## jeffmcc

> _Originally posted by tanasi _
> 
> I called (800) 695-9251 and spoke to a person straight away with no waiting and in five minutes I have a new unit on the way. This will be the second replacement. My first unit HDMI was dead out of the box. I have already voted in the poll so I can't add another failure to the totals.


I hope you have better luck than I did. HDMI failed on Monday (first time I've disconnected/reconnected the box since I bought it in May) -- one disconnect/reconnect did the trick. Called and no sooner had I uttered the acronym HDMI than the CSR ordered a new one. The next day I had a message on my home answering machine to call back about "getting the replacement." I called and the CSR I spoke to said they weren't replacing boxes that had the HDMI issue (we've heard that before), instead, he said, "we have to work on alternate cabling." I declined and told him to pull the plug (cancel D*). He said he couldn't do that and connected me to "retention." A very nice and seemingly competent CSR finally had us on a 3-way conf call with shipping I guess. The upshot was that an order was placed for a new unit. I was given a number to call back the next day to get the FedEx tracking number. I called back the next day and the CSR said something to the effect "that's strange it hasn't shipped." Nonetheless she gave a tracking number (I don't know how that works). I've checked FedEx several times and the only activity shown is 12/15 @3:56 PM "In Transit, Memphis, TN." Estimated delivery date is Monday, 20th and since this is Friday afternoon I'm beginning to wonder if I'm ever going to see that box.

ps - Retention did give me a $150.00 credit "for my inconvenience" and this is reflected in my on-line account.


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## tanasi

> _Originally posted by jeffmcc _
> *I hope you have better luck than I did. HDMI failed on Monday (first time I've disconnected/reconnected the box since I bought it in May) -- one disconnect/reconnect did the trick. Called and no sooner had I uttered the acronym HDMI than the CSR ordered a new one. The next day I had a message on my home answering machine to call back about "getting the replacement." *


I am keeping my fingers crossed. I haven't received a phone call today regarding the replacement box. The CSR said to expect delivery in two to three work days.

I have a computer printer which resides on the shelf beneath my HDTIVO. I had to jostle the cables around a bit while changing a printer cartridge and that was all it took, just a small disturbance to hose the HDMI output on the box.


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## kltazman

Costumer Service is really going down the tubes with D* They were sending me another unit after number two died on arrival. They ordered it for me the same day they admitted the HDMI had a "problem becoming unseated" and I would get the new unit in two days. Called a week later and they said it was ordered and I should be patient. Well my patients in wearing out and I called again. This time they admitted it was never ordered. Maybe the positive outcome is that the manufacturer's date will be after 11/22 and the HDMI will work.

I can't believe they are still getting a star rating at JD Powers.


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## GW350

Hello All, I have been reading up here for a while now and learning a lot...
I have a Samsung HLP5063, an ota hd box and a D* tivo. Finally splurged for the hr10-250 yesterday, got it hooked up and activated today. I guess I also have a dead HDMI port, no signal with it or the HDMI to DVI cable... At work tonite, tomorrow I guess I'll see build date and start checking on a replacement. Component looks great, probably because I haven't had the opportunity to see it better... 

GW


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## leres

I've had my HR10-250 for three months (Mexico: 08-Aug-04). Last night was the first time I had any trouble with the HDMI (I started getting color glitches). I called DTV, was booted to a 2nd level csr who immediately ordered a replacement receiver. I expressed concerns that this problem hasn't been solved yet but he said a new unit had a good chance of working ok for me.


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## GW350

Found my date is Sept 9, 04... I guess either D* or BestBuy will be replacing it when the supposedly foolproof models are in good supply.

GW


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## looknow12

Just picked up a new HD Tivo (my other one has worked fine for since day one (about 4 months ago) and it is failing on the HDMI signal. The new TV I got with it, only supports HDMI (not DVI) so you can imagine how unhappy I am with it.


----------



## kingtut(So.Cal)

Well a little over three months and last night I got the pink pixalation. Three calls later to D*TV and I should have a new one on wednesday.


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## philipgood

I got my HD10-250 from weaknees.com with an extra sized drive. The HDMI went pink, I rebooted the TIVO and the pink was gone but the picture is a mess, missing color and resolution. Emailed weaknees and within 10 minutes got a return authoriazation.

Bummer about the problem but good respoonse from weaknees on the problem.


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## flapbreaker

> _Originally posted by philipgood _
> *I got my HD10-250 from weaknees.com with an extra sized drive. The HDMI went pink, I rebooted the TIVO and the pink was gone but the picture is a mess, missing color and resolution. Emailed weaknees and within 10 minutes got a return authoriazation.
> 
> Bummer about the problem but good respoonse from weaknees on the problem. *


What's a real bummer is that D* is leaving the retailers out to dry on these units. There is no garuantee that the replacement unit will work for very long. D* knows there is a serious problem but has yet to notify anyone if they plan on fixing it or not. Can't remember any other consumer electronic device that was flawed but had nothing done about it. I seriously think that it's going to take a class action lawsuit to get D* to do anything about it.


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## looknow12

> _Originally posted by looknow12 _
> *Just picked up a new HD Tivo (my other one has worked fine for since day one (about 4 months ago) and it is failing on the HDMI signal. The new TV I got with it, only supports HDMI (not DVI) so you can imagine how unhappy I am with it. *


I spoke to Dtv and they first asked me if I really prefer that port vs rgb and I said yes, absolutely. They then said OK, we will fedex you one out with a return tag. I should have the replacement in 3-5 days.


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## abracadabra

Hi. I'm new to this forum. I've had my HR10-250 (9/26/04 manufacture date)now for about 3 weeks. The installers used component rather than HDMI. I didn't know enough to question it at the time. I was going to switch to HDMI until I stumbled onto this thread. Is *anyone* using HDMI without any problems? Should I give it a shot or is it a hopeless cause? This is very discouraging after dropping 1K on this thing. Is it true that post 11/22/04 units are trouble free? I'm inclined to give it a go but would like some informed opinions first. Thanks. Excellent forum by the way.


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## vonzoog

Most people feel that the digital hookup (HDMI/DVI) connection is "better" than the component (analog) connection. I also think that it is a better picture.

Either way, you bought the unit and you should get what you paid for. Go ahead and hookup the HDMI. I think you will love it. If it doesn't work, get a replacement. If the rumors are true, the "fix' has been made and these newer units with the fix will be getting into the hands of everyone that have had the problems.

Go for it and enjoy. You have already paid for it.


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## tanasi

My replacement (manufactured 26 Oct 04) arrived today. I placed the call for a replacement the night of 16 Dec 04. HDMI looks great out of the box. It replaced one made 21 Jul 04. The replaced one replaced one made 24 Aug 04. Fingers crossed that the third one is charmed.


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## Nick Satullo

I've got 3 HD TiVo units, but the one in my main projection room is the oldest (I think I was 40-something on the VE list). I have yet to try it with the HDMI, because, up until recently, the projector I was using didn't have an HDMI input. Now it does.

Since this particular HD TiVo unit is almost assuredly from the earliest batch shipped, I'll report back on whether it has any HDMI problems.

Nick


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## breevesdc

Is there any way to tell the manufacture date without opening the box? I might be interested in purchasing if Tivo does not announce a CableCard compatible box at CES next month. But I definitely want one built December or later due to the HDMI issue. Thanks.

Brian


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## tgav8rs

I just recvd a Plasma which has a DVI connector. I hooked the HDMI-DVI cable and the HR10-250 went into thermal protection mode. I had to connect via component cables to get the unit to work.


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## mikeny

First off. This seems like a great site and I appreciate all the info available here.

I got my unit last night and there was absolutely no signal on the HDMI port. No problems on component. 

Level 1 at D* didn't know what to do because "You didn't buy it from us". Level 2, said "Oh yeah, the HDMI. Why don't you use component and there will be a software fix in the next week or two." I asked for another one to try and he said no problem but that there is no guarantee that it won't break down in the future. I said I would like to take my chances with a 2nd unit. It should be delivered in 3-5 days FEDEX.


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## T_Bro

> _Originally posted by breevesdc _
> *Is there any way to tell the manufacture date without opening the box? I might be interested in purchasing if Tivo does not announce a CableCard compatible box at CES next month. But I definitely want one built December or later due to the HDMI issue. Thanks.
> 
> Brian *


I don't think so. That's why I have seen so many HR10-250 boxes opened at BB.


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## Nick Satullo

> _Originally posted by Nick Satullo _
> *I've got 3 HD TiVo units, but the one in my main projection room is the oldest (I think I was 40-something on the VE list). I have yet to try it with the HDMI, because, up until recently, the projector I was using didn't have an HDMI input. Now it does.
> 
> Since this particular HD TiVo unit is almost assuredly from the earliest batch shipped, I'll report back on whether it has any HDMI problems.
> 
> Nick  *


Well, I tried it. One of the earliest ones released, and . . .

Picture looks outstanding. But there's a strange (and pleasant) anomaly that I'll report in another thread. Look at it here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212881

Nick


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## KalaPela

Well guys and gals, It looks like i'll be working on my 4th tivo!!!

I had a friend over to calibrate my tv today, the first time i've removed the HDMI to DVI connection from the back of the TV, as soon as he put it back in i noticed something wasn't right. There was this slight fuzzyness, and progressively the picture has gotten worse day by day, it becoming quite obvious in the DTV menu. 

My first 2 Tivo's HDMI lasted about 2 days, this one at least lasted 3 months. Oh well, time to get a new one.


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## jlib

> _Originally posted by flapbreaker _
> *...There is no guarantee that the replacement unit will work for very long. D* knows there is a serious problem but has yet to notify anyone if they plan on fixing it or not... *


It has been fixed for a month (as reported in this thread and others). There have been no reports yet of failures on the fixed units.


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## TomRaz

I don't recall anyone having actually received any of the fixed units with the 11/22/04 or greater dates.

So from most peoples perspective the problem is still real and until the replacements start to flow the frustations will continue


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## jlib

DTV TiVo Dealer has said he is selling December manufactured units. So far there have been no reports of problems and we are only interested in negative reports, right? So, all evidence so far points to the problem being fixed. If not then there should be a continuing 10% or so failure rate.


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## tanasi

I just received a unit from DTV manufactured 26 Oct 04. If the fix has been in place since 22 Nov 04, why are they still sending out TROUBLE? Gross mismanagement or stupidity. Why defend them? Let's see how long this one lasts.


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## db505

So far so good. No failures seen in a few days of operation.

HR10-250 has a "freshness" date of Dec 4 2004.

<<Should have posted this info in another thread. Sorry!>>>


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## Weyoun7

I assume that JBL is reworking returned units. If the problem really involves solder on the HDMI board, they may be reworking the boards or replacing them. This is probably why "old" units are being reissued to customers. I have no factual information on their operations. I am basing these assumptions on my previous experience in the electronics industry.


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## cjc3cjc3

With the DTV Tivo units, is there a way to use 1 unit and get PIO?


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## tanasi

It is possible that they are reworking the units. That is my hope, but not my expectation, based on passed experience with DTV and other companies with overly compartmentalized management. A couple of months should tell the tale.


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## leakypuppy

My HDMI just started to go...I've had the unit about three weeks...it was manufactured in Oct 2004. I just called DirecTV and was told a software upgrade will be released soon to fix this. I insisted on a replacement unit which they're sending and I should have in a few days. They said as this is a known problem there is no guarantee the replacement box will work. I told them I'm willing to take my chances if it buys me a few more weeks of HDMI until the software fix comes out.


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## TomRaz

Leakpuppy the problem is not going to be resolved with software since it is a hardware issue with a solder problem. Any new units made after 11/22/04 are suppose to have the fix in them.


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## leakypuppy

I know but thanks. I was just reporting what there were telling people. Hopefully my new unit will be a newer one.


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## TIVOhead #2

I've been watching these posts. I ordered a Dell W2600 LCD monitor (they were willing to sell it for a " price of 1399" and I didn't bite that day, so had to pay a "base price of 1472, free shipping, plus sales tax" the next day) a few weeks ago. And I ordered a HD10-250. The HDMI->DVI connection gave me a "reverse image" color picture, smeared - the component, etc. were fine in comparison.
Dell sent a replacement unit, no problem. Side-by-side, both monitors had the same picture problem. The original went back. But not before DirecTV sent (via valueelectronics) a replacement box. The new box, HDMI->DVI was fine. The first box was manufactured 10/04, the replacement 09/04. What have I learned? First, I had not been keeping up on these posts, so I let my guard down. I realize now that an uninformed consumer is a stupid consumer (caveat emptor) and I'm talking here about me, not you. After all, it's pretty clear that this forum and its threads contain about all the information a consumer needs to make an informed choice and to be able to get proper service for an obviously defective product. Second, I've learned never to buy new technology (new to market, that is) without the solid gold warranty valueelectronics.com (and maybe others?? No!) provide the savvy consumer. Third, DirecTV customer service (and many of the other "secret" or hard-to-obtain numbers) are useless unless the rep has a personal WORKING knowledge of the technology. Rupert Murdoch and his troop could do worse than to give all reps a HD-TIVO so as to eliminate all the verbiage on threads like this and build customer loyalty, and most importantly, in a capitalist society, the DirecTV customer base. Why is customer service a dead art, as I see it?! An uninformed customer rep is worse than plain vanilla customer service as read from a monitor in a boiler room somewhere. Finally, if you think your HD10-250 will be fine and you HAVEN'T checked the HDMI->DVI output, I'd strongly suggest you take your box with the cable to your favorite AV store and try it out with a plasma, LCD or other HD monitor. Try the HDMI->HDMI cable too. The W2600 currently only supports HMDI->DVI. Do it now, so you can deal right away with the HDMI solder/card/whatever/post Nov 2? 2004 manufacturing date issue. As a bonus, you'll be bringing the salesperson up to speed. This might send DirecTV a strong message, as I see it. Again, Mr Murdoch, why can't DirecTV come clean on this and let everyone know that a fault, now well identified, will be expeditiously corrected, by contacting all us consumers. Hint: you know who we are because we have DirecTV HD Tivo service.... I'm getting tired of reading posts from annoyed consumers (read customers), and, obviously, I never imagined I'd be one of those folks myself. My sidebar says just a few posts, but we've been Tivo subscribers for over three years. Last but not least, fellow consumers, keep reading these posts!


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## looknow12

> _Originally posted by abracadabra _
> *Hi. I'm new to this forum. I've had my HR10-250 (9/26/04 manufacture date)now for about 3 weeks. The installers used component rather than HDMI. I didn't know enough to question it at the time. I was going to switch to HDMI until I stumbled onto this thread. Is anyone using HDMI without any problems? Should I give it a shot or is it a hopeless cause? This is very discouraging after dropping 1K on this thing. Is it true that post 11/22/04 units are trouble free? I'm inclined to give it a go but would like some informed opinions first. Thanks. Excellent forum by the way. *


My bad unit was Nov 1st, 2004. The new unit is Nov 9th, 2004 (Can't help but  over that).

It is definitely much better than before. The 11/1 unit looked like it was only 16 colors and the image overlapped itself. The new unit looks much better but actually not as good (if not close) to the RGB connection.

The HDMI cable should be much better right?


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## toxic

uh oh...

have had mine for less than 24 hours...working fine...then *pop*...the screen gets the dreaded pink tint. I unplugged the HDMI cable and plugged it back in and its fine - for now. Thinking if it goes I will swap it out once or twice to try to get a good one...mine was an Oct 14 build date...I think from Mexico but not sure..it has ME in a code by the date...thats how I am guessing...

tick tock...lets see what happens...


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## jsmoovey2004

Ok.  Im new to the group, but felt compelled to give you my story. 

I originally bought the Hr10-250 from rapidsatellite. After many promise dates of delivery, I finally received it 4 months after ordering (Arrived Jun 10th 2004). Things were great except they didnt send me an HD Dish as promised. To Make a long story short, the model they sent worked GREAT!!! (Including HDMI output) In fact, I never had a problem with the unit for two months, except for the paint job. It was extremely poor. However, I shipped it back due to dissatisfaction with the company and filed a complaint with my credit card company. I waited so long and was charged more than it should have been. I decided to wait until now (Dec 11, 2004). I found the HD Tivo on Best Buys web site. $1,000.00 + $65.00 for dish. However, I paid far less! I opened a new charge account and received two offers which I combined to get my Hr10-250 with Dish for only $895 (including tax). No Joke! It was tricky, but the sales rep finagled some numbers to work in my favor. Anyway, My Tivo worked great with NO problems for 6 days. And then.Nothing! No DMI output. I thought it was my Tivo unit because I wiggled the dmi cable from the tivo and the colors seemed to be oscillating on the screen. Finally, it permanently went dead. I went through the whole procedure at best buy again (Even exchange). 1 Week later it arrived. That would be today (Dec 28th 2004). I got it home and I didnt get the DMI output signal from out of the box. I was extremely frustrated and thought it might be my television. So I scheduled a TV repair man to work on my HDTV for next week Wed. However, I read your complaints in this forum and realized its probably not my T.V. 

Im just glad others are having the same problems and that its just not me. 

BTW  I called Direct TV and they say know one has ever called in with such complaints. I was only trying to see if the problem was in my TIVO unit or my Television. They wouldnt help and suggested I spend money on technician to come out and fix the problem. 

I guess Ill just have to return the HD TIVO back to Best Buy and do another even exchange until I get one that works.

Also  Both units from Best Buy were dated NOVEMBER 2004.

Thanks for the support!!!


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## abracadabra

OK. I am giving it a shot. Switched over to HDMI from component tonight. Picture looks great as of right now. My unit is dated 9/26/04. Any chance I'll never see a problem? I'll report back at some point. Fingers crossed.


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## T_Bro

> _Originally posted by abracadabra _
> *OK. I am giving it a shot. Switched over to HDMI from component tonight. Picture looks great as of right now. My unit is dated 9/26/04. Any chance I'll never see a problem? I'll report back at some point. Fingers crossed. *


My October built units HDMI has been in operation 4 weeks now. I've even unplugged and replugged in the HDMI once, in the middle of week 2. So far, so good.


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## ljcvideo

I just opened a brand new hd tivo & after setting it up, it would continuosly
go to powering up procedures.Another words You go thru all the set up procedure,type of dish,zip code,how many lnbs,etc.
The final step is where it test yor sat. signal.
then it would go thru powering up again & all the info. that was entered
is in there that you confirmed previously.I did a reset a few times & still go thru the powering up deal.

Any way the store I purchased it from would not take it back or exchange it,they would have a tech come out to repair it or wait to see what is thw problem. 
I spoke to Directv "Tier 2 Tech support" went over the situation & they said it sounds like a bad Hard drive.
Directv is send out a new unit & will take care of back & forth shipping .

Hopefully I won't have a Hard drive problem or a hDMI problem.

Did anybody experience this similar problem with the powering up looping?


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## kltazman

After one month of false promises of getting a new TiVo in 2 to 5 days, when my second unit had an HDMI failure, it finally came today at my office and it is a 12/01 production date from Mexico. More later after I get home and set it up.


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## mikeny

I got my replacement today which was manufactured 10/6/04 in Mexico.

The one I'm returning was 9/11/04 Mexico.

So far so good on the HDMI input.

I was not happy with the way the Fedex deliveryman stood the box vertically, let it fall at my door, and I told D* such. It was also repackaged and one of the styrofoam sides was broken.

Time will tell, right.

Now, that I set up ok, should I get those questionable d and e updates?


----------



## vonzoog

klatzman,

Take that baby home and drop it a couple of times and then roll it down the stairs. Let the kids yank on the HDMI cable. Hook it up and let us all know how it works. You know that there are many of us out here waiting to see if a December built date really does work.

Please keep us posted. If it works I will be replacing mine soon.


----------



## kltazman

As for the Dec Unit, I pulled the HDMI cable out several time and even toggled between component and HDMI and we still have lift off. As for my 10 month old son playing with the system, he has all his life to destroy our very expensive home entertainment center. I guess Dec is a good month for HDMI -- So Far


----------



## leakypuppy

Just got my replacement unit from DirecTV today and it has a born on date of 11/2004. All is good so far.


----------



## dmwierz

What, if any, physical differences have been noted in the more recent build-dates? Are the HDMI cards held in place differently? Are the connections improved? What is there to give higher confidence that D* has fixed the problem?


----------



## Pwrplayer

I found this thread via GOOGLE (shows how popular this topic is!) when I received not one, but two (2) HR10-250 units with defective HDMI ports (out of the box! Dec 23 & 27)! (Sep & Oct build dates) I had a service call that resulted in the tech agreeing that the unit needed to be replaced. I just spent over 4 hrs on the phone with DTV. They were telling me they couldn't replace them because they don't sell that model or that it is a known issue and a software update will solve it later and they were not authorizing a replacement for that problem! That finally set me off and I bluntly demanded "CUSTOMER RETENTION". I'm on the phone with they CR lady for about 45 mins and her supervisor is having an advanced replacement unit shipped to me via 2 day FedEx. She read the replacement policy and couldn't understand why "Tier 2 Tech Support" didn't replace it. That's a hell of a long way from "we can't replace it". At first she pushed back until I clarified that DTV manufactures these units. I read the warranty procedure on pg 149 of the users manual. I seemed to have to argue the fact that DTV produces these units, thus the manufactures warranty is honored by them and not the distributors. Hopefully my new unit works!
Now, regarding the real problem... (I'm a Computer Engineer)
I investigated the cause of the faulty HDMI connector. The HDMI connector is on a card (similar to a video card in a PCI slot in a computer). When I wiggled the connector, the card moved inside the unit and thus in the main board connector. This wiggle momentarily provided a clear picture. The damn slot on the motherboard must have bad solder (cold solder) joints or the slot itself is defective. Either one is the result of crappy manufacturing. 
-1- First, DTV as the manufacturer is to blame. 
-2- Second, DTV is to blame for propogating the myth that this can be solved by software updates! (BS!) 
-3- Third, DTV is to blame for not recalling these defective units and voluntarily replacing them. A simple database query will list all customers who currently have service with this unit.
I have had a similar problem with my Treo 600 & 650 PDA phone, but atleast PalmOne did something to correct the problem. 
These are the facts and when I believe I'm right then I tend to hold my ground! 
I urge everyone to demand replacements until they have a fully functional unit. We pay to much to beta test a production unit! We must make our voice heard, otherwise this issue still persists. (No stinking component outputs. I didn't buy a $3000 plasma to use components!) 
I'm usually very calm, but this 35+ pg thread is to much evidence of serious problem. My apologies for the rant. I hope this helps others handle their situation.


----------



## TomRaz

Welcome to the madness pwr. We have a great group rate on some meds if you need to calm down  

Yeah it is really sad that D* has not owned up to this issue and come clean and promised to recall all the units that could be affected. I am not suprised that someone has not started a class action lawsuit similar to what is usually done in the auto industry that ends up with a forced recall. 

I have been sitting on the sidelines waiting for D* to fix this problem and lower the price before I jump on this bandwagon. 

I do not understand how D* wins the JD Power customer satisfaction award each year. Perhaps the competition really sucks worse than D* customer service. 

Many posts ago someone had the idea of everyone printing out this thread and have everyone mail their printouts at the sametime to the CEO or president of D*

I still think this sounds like a great idea


----------



## Pwrplayer

I like the idea of sending a transcript of the thread. I vote for acquiring as many fax numbers as possible and bogging their fax machines down. 
I recently had a credit mistake and it took 5 months to correct. Ended up faxing information repeatedly (per their request). I guess the right guy finally got the fax and updated the account. 
This is the method credit collections use. Call every morning at 8 AM and multiple times a day. Ultimately, they appologized for the mistake.
Feel free to compile a list of DTV fax numbers. 

Email may be another one. The DTV Retention lady suggested I compose a brief summary and send an email. We could all compose an email and include a link to this thread. Fillup their email box. It's not spam, it's customer feedback. "Please Fix the HDMI Problem (HR10-250)" could be the topic. We don't want to use the same txt, because they'll write a script to delete the like messages. I would. lol.


----------



## TIVOhead #2

OK folks! My earlier post, #685, has been confirmed by post #698. People can decide what to do about D* and the individual response may be based, perhaps inevitably, on whether you think D* is simply incompetent, the CSR end, or that they are just plain lying.

If you are reading these posts, and whether or not you have a HD10-250 that (still)works or that doesn't, you may not know you have a piece of crap attached to your HD monitor ....yet.

If you are considering buying or replacing a unit, do what I did when purchasing your fix:

Ask for the $250 equipment credit against your D* bill. And go straight to "Customer Retention" - don't waste time with any old CSR. These units are outrageously expensive and cost very little to manufacture (perhaps that's why they are shipped in the same flimsy shelf box you see at BB or CC). Unless you get one from valueelectronics, who believe in, whoa, double boxing. What a quaint concept. Arrives in one piece too, incredible huh?!

Ask for 6 months free HD package, your intro to D* HD programming
Ask for 6 months free HB0
Ask for 6 months $5 per month credit on your Total Choice package
Ask for 6 months free Showtime

Maybe I missed something. I saved almost $475, was polite, and got everything I asked for. I also asked, in a seperate phone call, for an installation upgrade (you need to get the special phone number from your retailer). A new phase three dish, placement of the new unit, hundreds of feet of new quad shield cable, and a 4x8 multiswitch all for $49, added to the D* bill.

Yeah, but I still want a HD10-250 that won't crap out. I'm on my second box in two weeks, remember. 

Good luck, Amigos!


----------



## mfleming

> _Originally posted by TomRaz _
> Many posts ago someone had the idea of everyone printing out this thread and have everyone mail their printouts at the sametime to the CEO or president of D*
> 
> I still think this sounds like a great idea


Yeah, that was my idea and I was surprised no one jumped on it. But, if someone can provide a good contact/address to send it too, I proise I will do it tomorrow overnight! Who would be good?


----------



## mfleming

> _Originally posted by Pwrplayer _
> *I like the idea of sending a transcript of the thread. I vote for acquiring as many fax numbers as possible and bogging their fax machines down.
> I recently had a credit mistake and it took 5 months to correct. Ended up faxing information repeatedly (per their request). I guess the right guy finally got the fax and updated the account.
> This is the method credit collections use. Call every morning at 8 AM and multiple times a day. Ultimately, they appologized for the mistake.
> Feel free to compile a list of DTV fax numbers.
> 
> Email may be another one. The DTV Retention lady suggested I compose a brief summary and send an email. We could all compose an email and include a link to this thread. Fillup their email box. It's not spam, it's customer feedback. "Please Fix the HDMI Problem (HR10-250)" could be the topic. We don't want to use the same txt, because they'll write a script to delete the like messages. I would. lol. *


Yes, faxing would be a great way to do it!


----------



## angusdavis

Thought I would briefly share my recent experience with the HR10-250. I purchased my unit, and when it arrived the HDMI output was dead -- just black screen. I had read this thread in advance of my purchase so I had a hunch this was going to happen. I called DirecTV and at various points in my 30-minute conversation they said:

1. It is a software problem. You need to wait for a software upgrade.
2. It is a cable problem, not a problem with the receiver.
3. It is a "known incompatibility problem," and they won't replace the unit because the replacement unit "more than likely will have the same problem."
4. The fix is to "use the component cables."

I got some variations on all these answers from the Level 1, and the Level 2 tech gave me all of them except the software excuse. Finally I demanded that they ship me a replacement unit after I told her quite bluntly that she was just plain wrong in claiming this was a cable problem. I explained that I have another source with HDMI output and the cable worked fine with that source. I further explained that the problem is very well documented on the Internet, and that it is a known manufacturing defect due to bad soldering, and that many have said that units manufactured after Nov 22 are supposed to be fixed. 

Finally she put me on hold, relented, and FedExed me a replacement. Upon receiving the replacement unit, I am supposed to send back my defective unit within 7 days to avoid a $1000 charge. She tried to claim that they would not ship an additional unit if this one is defective, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

I was struck by the total incompetence, rudeness, and general ineptitude of the DirecTV service reps. The Level 1 spoke in Eubonics and I had a serious difficulty understanding her speech -- just basic communication was nearly impossible. The Level 2 at least spoke English but she was equally incompetent in her failed understanding of the problem.


----------



## ljcvideo

I bought a brand new unit & I had a hard drive problem & Directv send a new one within 2 days. The Manufacturer date was Nov 21,04 (new one)

I had a continuous powering up cycle after entering all my set up info.

Did anyone experince this cyclying problem?

I paid only $810.00 for it at the store (Sixth ave.)

I also recieved a $250.00 credit from Directv for being a long time customer & for investing all this money for a new box.

Retention dept is a good dept to deal with for these discount issues.

So far the HDMI is fine.


----------



## gilster23

I been reading about the HDMI failure. Is this the only problem with the HD TIVO.

I have a Sony WEGA KV-34HS510. 

On the back it says DVI-HDMI connection and has audio inputs. from my reading on other site, HDMI connection control video and audion connection.

My question is " do I have a HDMI connection, is this the same thing. No info in the TV manual.


----------



## Pwrplayer

I'm pretty sure the previous HDMI technical question (#706) would be answered better in another thread. This thread really deals with HDMI failures.
Heck, once the output works we could discuss all types of compatibility issues. But that requires the HDMI output to work! lol.

I'm not trying to be rude, just want you to get the best answer.:up:


----------



## gilster23

No Problem. I do not take it as being rude. the reason why I posted here was 2 fold. If the only problem with the unit is the HDMI failure and if my TV set do not have that hookup, then I answered my own question. I am doing some techo searches now.

Thanks


----------



## lady400

I guess I should have posting to this thread to begin with, but since my problem was seemingly different, I posted here instead:

New HDMI issue with Sharp LCD? 
My issue has essentially been with changing inputs on my Sharp LCD via HDMI. Since posting, I have now experienced the "pink screen" issue for the first time (while testing my input change problem with 1080i instead of 720p).

I am now pretty convinced it's the Tivo causing the input change issue somehow, since other reported issues are now rearing their ugly head on my unit. I guess I will wait a bit for more of the new production units to be in the pipeline before asking for a replacement.


----------



## jsmoovey2004

O.K.  After listening to some of your new stories, I decided to try calling D*. Sure enough, I told them to direct me to the level 2 customer support team and I was. I laid down my foot and did not get any backtalk. The customer support guy told me that my new unit would arrive in 1 to 2 buisness days via Fedex. I will let you know how it goes from there!!!!

Thanks again.


----------



## Watchguy

Well I couldn't resist My 4th replacement arrived without preaddressed label to return the unit with a bad sat one tuner. So when I called to ask for return instructions, I could not resist and told them " along with the return label send me a new tivo to replace the last replacement which has a doa hdmi port. The tech type person agreed. In a couple of days i got my replacement but to my dismay was not a tivo but a Samsung hd receiver. Another 30 min on hold and I was able to convince them of the error of their ways and had a replacement on it's way through the Christmas rush. My replacement arrived yesterday Build date July BUMMER!! HDMI actually worked great. Wow! Today sat one tuner 0% sat 2 90% Bummer!! 45Min on hold techy type guy suggested he send next unit with a service tech to install. I suggested that I probably had more experience installing these infernal contraptions than any of his service techs. He then stated that I was probably right. new tivo is on it's way At this point I've lost track on the number of tivos I've had but It sure is an adventure For my trouble D has only given me $60.00 credit Bummer !!!!!


----------



## CCieurzo

HD Tivo purchased 10/30 from CC with a 28 Aug 04 build date. Unit moved to new house 2 Dec and HDMI died 2 days later. Of note, the HDMI cable was not unplugged for the move. D* insists it is a software problem and will be fixed by an as yet unscheduled software update.


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## lance_weaver

HDMI port failed after 2 days use (manufacture date 10-20-04) - pink screen and now blank. Pink screen comes and goes when wiggling the HDMI connector. Called D* and immediately asked for level 2 support. Sat on hold for 10 minutes.

Called the 800 number for level 2 previously listed --- got a level 1 guy. He forwarded me to level 2. Held for 10 more minutes. Finally rang through. Described problem and said I wanted a replacement. No issues - verified address and gave me an order number. 2-3 days to receive replacement.

I asked level 2 tech if this one would have a manufacturing date post 11/22/2004. Tech didn't know what I was talking about.....I said, "Never mind. Ship the replacement."

I'll be looking for the date when I get the new one. Anything less than 11/22 and I'll be wiggling the hell out of that connector.

Great thread here!


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## Rubber Ducky

I plugged in my new 250 yesterday. Blank screen out of the box. Using HDMI to DVI cable. Level two Tech support at [email protected]# insists that software update is the only fix for this problem. Will not send out replacement. I"m pretty pissed off.
Been a steady customer with four receivers for seven or eight years.
I even talked to their customer retention department. I got zip. This is again typical for them. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do now?
I wonder how long I have to wait for Comcast to come out with their DVR in our area?


----------



## obi1

Been running HD Tivo, made in Mexico for 3 weeks now. Have found when running HDMI that if TV Monitor(mitz DLP) is turned off for a few hours and then turned on again, that no picture on the input(HDMI) that is used on the Mitz to support the Tivo. All other inputs are fine(am running two other non HD Tivos on this monitor). I can clear by either removing and reinserting HDMI cable(this works sometimes) or pulling the plug on the Tivo box and let the machine reboot itself and go thru all the startup process. I am now running in component mode. I will probably return box to Goodguys for exchange for another bad one. I did buy the 5 year warranty for whatever this is worth. Probably will get screwed(will I?) out of when I want to upgrade box with another hard drive for more capacity as I have done on my other Tivo's. Also when running in HDMI mode, I cannot get Hi Def channels to give me audio in the monitor, but I can get ok in my Parasound C1 Pre-amp. Non HD channels I get audio everywhere. If in component mode I get audio both thru internal tv speakers as well as C1 controller/preamp. Tivo is set up for digital output.


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## abbas

Lady 400 - you have to use the DVI input on the Sharp. Used the HDMI to DVI cable from the HD-TIVO. I have experienced the same problem with the Sharp 45" and Sharp 32". This has been documented before also with Panasonic Plasmas. The 'e' software seems to have fixed the problem for Panasonic but I think Sharp people have to wait longer.


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## vonzoog

> _Originally posted by Watchguy _
> *Well I couldn't resist My 4th replacement arrived without preaddressed label to return the unit with a bad sat one tuner. So when I called to ask for return instructions, I could not resist and told them " along with the return label send me a new tivo to replace the last replacement which has a doa hdmi port. The tech type person agreed. In a couple of days i got my replacement but to my dismay was not a tivo but a Samsung hd receiver. Another 30 min on hold and I was able to convince them of the error of their ways and had a replacement on it's way through the Christmas rush. My replacement arrived yesterday Build date July BUMMER!! HDMI actually worked great. Wow! Today sat one tuner 0% sat 2 90% Bummer!! 45Min on hold techy type guy suggested he send next unit with a service tech to install. I suggested that I probably had more experience installing these infernal contraptions than any of his service techs. He then stated that I was probably right. new tivo is on it's way At this point I've lost track on the number of tivos I've had but It sure is an adventure For my trouble D has only given me $60.00 credit Bummer !!!!! *


You should try reversing your Sat cables. Move tuner one to tuner two, and two to one (did that make sense). I had the same problem a few months back. I have been a member since 95 and it turn out my calbes were bad, NOT the receiver. Replaced the cables and everything was like new again. Also have a much stronger signal reading.

Hope this helps.


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## mikeny

> _Originally posted by Rubber Ducky _
> *I plugged in my new 250 yesterday. Blank screen out of the box. Using HDMI to DVI cable. Level two Tech support at [email protected]# insists that software update is the only fix for this problem. Will not send out replacement. I"m pretty pissed off.
> Been a steady customer with four receivers for seven or eight years.
> I even talked to their customer retention department. I got zip. This is again typical for them. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do now?
> I wonder how long I have to wait for Comcast to come out with their DVR in our area?  *


Call again and talk to someone else. You ran into a stubborn CSR.


----------



## gilster23

Just wanted to send out an update: I am in Charlotte, NC. Just left Best Buy. The answer to the problem is going to be this.

The new boxes DO NOT have a HDMI plug. Only component connection. I will be getting one on Saturday.


----------



## jsmoovey2004

MikeNy - Definitely try again. I couldn't believe how easy it was the first time for me. You probably talk to someone that didn't have any authority. Remember - Never accept "NO" from a person who doesn't have the authority to say "Yes". 
Even then, reach higher!


----------



## mikeny

> _Originally posted by gilster23 _
> *Just wanted to send out an update: I am in Charlotte, NC. Just left Best Buy. The answer to the problem is going to be this.
> 
> The new boxes DO NOT have a HDMI plug. Only component connection. I will be getting one on Saturday. *


Is this for real? Are you saying they're not going to include the cable or they have removed the port altogether?

If this is true they should be giving it a new model number and either way it's NO FIX and NOT ACCEPTABLE.



> _Originally posted by jsmoovey2004 _
> *MikeNy - Definitely try again. I couldn't believe how easy it was the first time for me. You probably talk to someone that didn't have any authority. Remember - Never accept "NO" from a person who doesn't have the authority to say "Yes".
> Even then, reach higher! *


jsmoovey2004, You meant to directing your good advice to Rubber Ducky

So far my replacement is working on HDMI at Day 3.

It's amazing how my return took 1 day to get to Memphis, TN FedEx but my replacement took 9 days.

Everyone, make sure when you disconnect your bad HR10-250 that D* properly removes it from your account. When I logged in yesterday, I still had the original AND replacement stated to be in my living room. I only wish I had 2. It took a call and an accidental transfer to get it straightened out.


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## gilster23

Just stating what I saw today. I looked at the back of the unit and I asked the guy. This shipment had just came in. Maybe I should have checked the model number. I will Saturday, but I do know it was the HD-DVR Hughes for 999.


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## vonzoog

Something is wrong here. Hughes does not make the HD-Tivo model anymore. It is now branded "DiredTV".

You must be looking at the wrong model sitting by an incorrect price label.

Plus, when do you ever believe what a BB clerk says.


----------



## dmwierz

> _Originally posted by gilster23 _
> *Just wanted to send out an update: I am in Charlotte, NC. Just left Best Buy. The answer to the problem is going to be this.
> 
> The new boxes DO NOT have a HDMI plug. Only component connection. I will be getting one on Saturday. *


Says who? This would make no sense whatsoever! My guess is you were looking at the wrong product.

Can anyone else confirm this?


----------



## jlib

Since it didn't say HR10-250 on it, it is the wrong model.


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## chieftain

I think abbas made an important observation a few posts back. I, too, have a Sharp LCD (LC-26GA4U), and I'm on my third HR10-250 with malfunctioning HDMI-HDMI (pink-tinged picture or no picture at all, after each receiver worked for a couple of days). Based on his suggestion, I tried using the HDMI-DVI hookup with my Sharp. Voila -- video! To get it, though, I had to first instruct the TV that it was receiving a digital instead of analog video signal (or a PC signal of either type) at the DVI input. The audio input corresponding to the DVI video input on the Sharp requires a stereo minijack, so I used a stereo RCA - minijack cable for this.

Anyway, since I now have video while using the sole HDMI output of the HR10-250, this implies the problem (at least for me) is not in the receiver but, rather, in the TV. A bad solder or other HDMI card problem in the HR10-250 would not be expected to give video with EITHER HDMI or DVI at the TV end... would it? I also tried 2 or 3 different HDMI-HDMI cables with the same results, so I also doubt it's a cable issue.

Thanks to abbas for this, and this might be something for others having HDMI problems to try (if they have the option to do so with their TV's). Of course, now I have to call Sharp instead of DirecTV. :-(


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## webpowered

I've had an Aug 14 Mexico HD-TIVO since September and from first day the screen has been black for HDMI and HDMI-DVI. Recently I took off the cover and tried reseating the card and got nothing. After reading the results the previous person had getting HDMI-DVI to work, I tried it again, unscrewing the card and reseating it and changing all the options on the LCD. Still nothing.

The TIVO knows when HDMI is connected, since I can look at it on the output to a VCR at 480i, and info says "HDCP not enabled". Also the component outputs stop working when HDMI is connected, but I nevertheless get no picture.

I don't think the previous entry's luck with DVI is anything conclusive for all HD-TIVO and Sharp users, since my HDMI card is non--functional period!

I'm waiting a while to get my first replacement in hopes I'll get a working replacement. DirecTV has on record that they owe me a replacement.

I also stopped my automatic billing recently in case I get mistakenly charged for the replacement.

Don


----------



## Rubber Ducky

Well, today I called D and complained about being treated like a second class customer. This time I at least got them to ship out to new receivers for two old A3's in the kids rooms, a new triple LNB dish., HD package, HBO and Showtime all for $6.00. I could not convince them I deserved an equipment credit. At least this time they tried to make me happy. Oh yes they told me that since my reciever had the software update on it now and the HDMI to DVI was still not working they would ship out a replacement.


----------



## chickenscratch

After a few months, the HD in my HDTiVo ate it. So I got a replacement. The HDMI port didn't work on the replacement from day one. I got another replacement and that one worked fine and still works fine.

I have not had an HDMI port fail after initially working.


----------



## abbas

chieftain - the HDMI problem is not with Sharp but with the HD-TIVO. This problem was also seen with Panasonic TV's. Once the upgrade 'e' software was released for the HD-TIVO, the problems went away on the Panasonics. Unfortunetly, it still exists with Sharp. Also, unless you are using a PC, you should set the Sharp settings with a DIGITAL AV.

I wish Directv would have a software patch that would allow for native output of the HDTV or discrete remote commands for resolutions.

Anyone know if there will be an updated model at CES, maybe the HR10-500?!?!?


----------



## molitor4

I took the HD Tivo that I bought around the beginning of December back to BestBuy today. Swapped it out (within 30 days) for a new model. A little dismayed when I opened the box and saw the "born on date" of mid October. Decided to hook it up and the HDMI worked like a charm. Wow, really nice picture. Was glad I did the swap as I did not get anything with the last box. 

Unfortunately, this morning I started to get the infamous pink screen. Component still works fine. Any opinion whether I should call D* and try and get one of the new boxes, or just wait ~25 days and try my luck with BestBuy again ? It is a bit annoying to keep setting up new boxes.

--brett


----------



## vonzoog

molitor4,

Try moving you HDMI cable connection around. Now don't get crazy. This will work sometimes.

I am on my second TiVo unit and when it arrived the HDMI did not work at all. After removing the cover and "resetting" the HDMI board everything worked fine (about 3 months) until today. I "wiggled" the HDMI cable connection this morning and the picture came back again. I was having the pink and green screen effect also.

I am waiting as long as I can in the hopes of bettering my chances of receiving a unit with a DECEMBER built date. These are reported to be the "fixed" units. If BB will let you open the boxes and you can find a December built date, then more power to you. Otherwise I feel you will be right back where you started from in the near future.

Just my .02 cents worth.


----------



## unixadm

I picked up an HR10-250 on Thursday. Manufacturer date Nov 2, 2004.

HDMI port worked out of the box, but failed yesterday (Sunday)

I guess I will be waiting until CC gets new ones in with dates later than Nov 22nd.


----------



## tbenning

Out of the box, my HDMI picture was pink and fuzzy. The next time I restarted the unit, HDMI was dead. 

DirecTV is shipping my replacement today. 

I have also replaced my UltimateTV with a TiVo unit. Anyone want to buy my old UltimateTV? (SOLD)

As requested, here is the build info:
- built on 8/24/04
- built in Mexico

Tim


----------



## vonzoog

tbenning,

What is the "built" date on the back of your TiVo?

We need to know this so that all can keep track of any newer dates having this problem. Supposedly any manufactured after November 22 have been "fixed". It will help if all people posting on this thread, please note your built date.

Thank you,


----------



## kltazman

It has been almost a week with the December date and the HDMI picture is great. I am hoping that third time is the charm. With that said, I wish I was able to get waivers to enjoy more programming such as Fox, NBC and I just noticed ABC on the menu last night.


----------



## vonzoog

Thanks for the update.

Hang in there. LIL on HD are in the near future for most and the rest will come later.


----------



## Rych6896

I have to go to circuit city tonight to get a warranty replacement. Is the born on date on the box? If so where is it located. Thanks. BTW I was on the phone with DTV last night for over an hour...they feel I have a hdmi failure, but I think it's just because they've seem so many of these. I think my real problem is a dying Hard Drive.


----------



## vonzoog

Sorry, it is not on the box.

You will have to beg them to open the box to see the date which is on the back of the unit.

Good Luck


----------



## vonzoog

It is most likely an HDMI failure. This is the most common failure with the TiVo-HD units. D* is hoping you will return it to CC under the 30 day return policy. That way it is CC's problem for now. After the 30 days they would have to exchange it for you. 

Try your luck with CC and see if they will open the boxes for you.


----------



## obi1

My Goodguys store has those with a date of Oct 10th 2004. I told them that I will wait for a late Nov. build date. Correct that build date is on unit itself but serial number is on packing box. Any information on a later "then" serial number for a safe unit? My unit will work for awhile, I then turn off my Mitz DLP Tv, come back a few hours later, turn on tv, and no picture. I can unplug HDMI cable, and all will be ok for awhile after I reinsert it(and the next tv powerdown will cause the problem--strange I know), or I can cycle the unit up and down by pulling power plug and all will be well until the next long tv powerdown(say 6 hours or more). Almost sounds like a possible TV problem on their HDMI circuit. Currently running with component cable and all is well. Two other non-HD Tivos on same TV function just fine.


----------



## Rych6896

> _Originally posted by vonzoog _
> *It is most likely an HDMI failure. This is the most common failure with the TiVo-HD units. D* is hoping you will return it to CC under the 30 day return policy. That way it is CC's problem for now. After the 30 days they would have to exchange it for you.
> 
> Try your luck with CC and see if they will open the boxes for you. *


I've had it since May. Directv instructed me to return it to Circuit City. Why do I get the feeling that I'm about to get porked?


----------



## nuke

My HDMI port has been working perfectly since I got the tivo in April 04 with a Panasonic D6UY plasma with DVI port.

Hard disk crapped out, but I fixed that myself, since I didn't want to take a chance on getting a dud unit in exchange.


----------



## spellow

Born on 6 November in Mexico

Dead on Arrival...I have the funky solarized picture

HDMI to DVI

Component works fine.

Luckly I got it at VE, I'll call and get another sent out to me.


----------



## jsmoovey2004

As Promised, I have good news. I received my new hr10-250 from D* today and the hdmi port works great!!! They delivered as promised. It is a Dec 2004 Model. Lets just hope it stays working. 

I do have a smaller problem though... My local sub channel (cbs 58) doesn't match the guide content. I've seen other posts for fixes but need newbie help in telnet / How to set up for HD tivo. Can someone please point me in the right direction? Thanks, I'll keep you posted with the working nature of the hdmi port.


----------



## Pwrplayer

Well GOOD NEWS since post #698.
I received a replacement unit from DTV with a DEC 4 manufacture date. "THE HDMI WORKS!" This unit doesn't appear to have any issues and seems to be solid.
It may very well be time for everyone to cash in and request a replacement.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.


----------



## Nalez

Well,
Anyone with a post-Nov 22nd unit have the guts to crack the sucker open and see if they can find out what they might have changed about the HDMI card?


----------



## wje

Guess I win the HDMI lottery, too. My HDMI output went 'solarized' exactly 2 weeks after turnon. 6-Nov build date. Got the runaround from D* for a bit, they said they weren't replacing units until there was a software fix. I read them the warranty, said maybe I should switch to Comcast, and now a new one is on the way. Of course, now it looks like none of the new HD channels that use MPEG-4 compression will be available to us. I've been a D* customer since '99, but I'm starting to wonder why.....


----------



## pixlpush

Nalez, I just recieved my 3'rd unit manufactured NOV 30'th 2004. I had added a second drive to the previous units with the weaknees kit so I had to crack it open to return the old unit anyway. the HDMI card in the new unit looks identical. As best I can tell the only difference mechanically was that the middle fastener on the HDMI card on the back of the unit was a Phillips head screw, not a torx screw, with a slightly more substantial washer on its base. By more substantial I mean that it doesn't have the tiny little fingers at the center of washer, instead it's got a solild center piece. Still a lock washer but in therory a little less flexable. Other than that I could see absolutely no difference. Same whimpy looking spring that holds the back of the card internally. Exactly the same conector to the mother board. Only the one washer was different, you can actually see this without having to take the cover off. I'm not sure if this was an intended design change or perhaps they just used a different fastener. Seems like if it were a design change they'd have swaped all three fasteners not just one? Anyway not wanting to loose all my content again I swaped the new HDMI card into the old box and it works fine (swaped the mounting hardware too).

We'll see how it goes I've just about had it with this thing. Now that D* is dumping Tivo and going towards the MPEG 4 broadcast standard even if this thing manages to keep working for another 2 years it will essentially be a boat anchor at that point anyway.


----------



## Superbone

pixlpush, that's good news about being able to swap the HDMI cards so as not to lose content. Thanks.


----------



## robnalex

Dec 2 Build - Bad HDMI


----------



## jlib

So, that is 2 failures so far on the new units. Oh, well...


----------



## TIVOhead #2

Folks - I've just been reading the posts since my last post, #798, etc.
PLEASE read the related thread on "HD TIVo CREDITs" to find out how to get D* to give you a $250 equipment credit on your HD10-250, a new phase III dish, programming credits, etc. Also, the phone numbers for "customer retention" etc.

It's now well established that:

1. D* has a serious hardware failure rate with the HDMI and if you aren't using HDMI you owe it to yourself to check it on your unit, even if you're not presently using it. It may yet fail you when you buy a HD monitor down the road and you want to hook it up to your box via the DVI or HDMI input. That will really annoy you if you don't have a 5 year warranty like VE includes in its $899 price.

2. The methods for getting satisfaction from D* are well established. If you get the runaround from CC, BB or anyone else, return your HD10 and buy new from VE - they'll take care of you.

3. Accept no excuses - D* has apparently sold over 20,000 units, so they know who we are. Stick to your guns and demand the best. That's what D* say they want to give us - so find out how to ask for it on these two, parallel threads.

Good luck, amigos!


----------



## looknow12

I've been using my HDMI port (to DVI) for months now and never noticed a problem... But then again, I always assumed standard non HD channels would look poor on a Plasma. The HD side of things looked great.

My other TV I purchased a new HR10 and out of the box it was horrible viwing anything, even the Tivo menus. It looked as if it was only showing 16 colors, very distorted. Dtv replaced it and after review, it works much better, but I actually prefer the Component setting for HD channels over the HDMI port.

Here's my question. Of all the HDMI symptoms out there, are these two issues part of the group?


Great HDTV viewing but poor with standard broadcasts. Looks worse than a standard TV with Standard broadcasts.
Component viewing of HD looks better than HDMI.
[/list=1]

Thanks


----------



## vonzoog

I could agree with that. Remember, by owning a "better" TV combine with a large screen, all of the imperfections of a low quality broadcast are now amplified.

The HDMI vs Component is still a matter of personal taste.


----------



## alandail

> _Originally posted by vonzoog _
> *I could agree with that. Remember, by owning a "better" TV combine with a large screen, all of the imperfections of a low quality broadcast are now amplified.
> 
> The HDMI vs Component is still a matter of personal taste. *


It's more than that - if a program is broadcast with the copy protection bit turned on, doesn't it get downrezed on if viewed via component instead of and HDCP compliant set.

I just got my HD Tivo this weekend and when I hooked it up, I get a blank screen on my DVI/HDCP capable Sony HS-10 projector. The info screen says something like "HDCP unavailable". As far as I know the HS-10 supports HDCP. Is this a result of the HDMI problem, or is something else going on?


----------



## Superbone

> *
> I just got my HD Tivo this weekend and when I hooked it up, I get a blank screen on my DVI/HDCP capable Sony HS-10 projector. The info screen says something like "HDCP unavailable". As far as I know the HS-10 supports HDCP. Is this a result of the HDMI problem, or is something else going on? *


It's the HDMI problem. Mine worked for 5 days. Now, it says the same as what you're seeing.


----------



## lakerholic

New user to the forum, but I've been reading for ages... just set up my High-Def TiVo yesterday (HDMI direct to my HDMI enabled Pioneer PDP-5045) and it was DOA, blank screen, nothing. Component works fine.

I called D* (is there a reason why we don't write the whole name?) and the tech support person I spoke with said that it's a software issue, they are working on it, and it will be fixed when my software version is "greater than 3.1.5E"... WTF?

I need help on a couple of fronts:

1) How do I get D* to replace my unit? Is it like the $250 credit where I need to call Customer Retention? I bought it from an independent installer and they won't replace it -- says that DirecTV should honor the warranty. I told the Tech support person I was aware of HDMI issues with some HD-TiVos and she responded with the "software issue" response above, which is BS.

2) Can someone PM me the Customer Retention number -- or the name of someone I should speak with to get this done -- I had it on a post-it and it's gone... worked great to get me the credit when I got the unit.

Thanks in advance,

-Eddie


----------



## Rych6896

I just got my replacement. hdmi DOA. It was born 11/30/04. Mexico.


----------



## Rych6896

Just called Directv. The CSR told me to use component and "deal with it."

I'll deal with it...when tivo comes out with their cable hdtv converter, good bye Directv.


----------



## mfleming

> _Originally posted by Rych6896 _
> *Just called Directv. The CSR told me to use component and "deal with it."
> 
> I'll deal with it...when tivo comes out with their cable hdtv converter, good bye Directv. *


I was going to say Unbelievable! until I realize that, unfortunately, it is entirely believable.


----------



## looknow12

> _Originally posted by Rych6896 _
> *Just called Directv. The CSR told me to use component and "deal with it."
> 
> I'll deal with it...when tivo comes out with their cable hdtv converter, good bye Directv. *


Call them back. Hundreds of users have received replacements. I am sure you'll do fine if you call back.

Incidentally, the rep did try to ask me if I preferred HDMI over component and I said ABSOLUTELY.

He then immediately processed the RMA.


----------



## jlib

There are now 3 reported "post-fix" HDMI failures (11/30/04, 12/2/04, and 12/2/04) so far which seems to be about the same rate of failure as before. Claims that it is fixed are less and less credible. Careful about the KoolAid...


----------



## lakerholic

> _Originally posted by looknow12 _
> *Call them back. Hundreds of users have received replacements. I am sure you'll do fine if you call back.
> 
> Incidentally, the rep did try to ask me if I preferred HDMI over component and I said ABSOLUTELY.
> 
> He then immediately processed the RMA. *


Ok, just called the Customer Retention Number posted on first page of the the $250 Credit thread and it took 30 minutes but they are sending me a new unit.

Said 3-5 business days, is this true... if so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a new unit by Friday!


----------



## spellow

Okay, Just got my replacement HR10-250, this is my second one and I'm happy to say it has a born on date of December 13th and the HDMI is working perfectly.

It did only take about 3 business days to get the replacement.

However, I cannot say things went without incident so here goes my latest D* saga story.

I backed up my drive, hooked up the new unit, went through all the install stuff and was ready to call to activate. 

The first CSR was actually pretty good, he activated the new unit just fine, everything was working like a champ, only thing left to do was de-activate the defective unit...here is where things turn bad.

The first CSR said that the systems were not working and he could not disco the defective unit so he transferred me to teir 2 who could supposedly disco the defective unit.

So, I got to teir 2 after 15 minutes on hold, I explained the situation all over again on how I need the defective unit disco'd. He said ok, let me take a look. I explained that I have 2 other Tivo's in my living room and they are currently recording so be sure not to interrup service to the other 2 Tivo's.

Well you can imagine where this is going.....He was unable to disco the defective HR10-250, but he sucessfully disco'd my New HR10-250 and 1 of my other SD Tivo's that was recording...once I noticed this I was like, dude, your killing me, get this thing turned on ASAP.

He mumbled some stuff then cold transferred me to another department without any explanation....so now I'm missing recordings...and super pissed.

So I wait on hold for another 15 minutes, and ofcourse I'm stewing, getting more pissed by the minute knowing I have to stay calm to get things done properly with these folks.

So teir 3 picks up the phone, luckily she was very nice, I exlained what was going on, she was amazed at the last CSR's actions as was I.

She re-activated my new HR10-250, but was unable to re-activate my other SD tivo, she said the system was locked down, and my access card had to be replaced because of what the second CSR had done.

So now I'm like, this is crazy, I called to get 1 unit activated and another disco'd and now I have a Tivo I can't use for 24 hours...I'm gonna miss 6 show recordings...

she sent me the access card overnight, I should have it by the time I get home from work today, then I have to call again to get my SD Tivo that had nothing to do with the original call activated...what a hassle.

they still have not disco'd my defective HR10-250...they will have to do that today as well.

I ended up being ok, I only missed 2 shows, I managed to get my New HR10-250 up and running in time to record the shows that my SD tivo was unable to since they trashed my system.

I ended up with a 20 dollar credit....and a new dis-respect for D*

oh well **** happens, silver lining is I got 20 more bucks off my HR10-250 which brings my overall price out of pocket for the HR10-250 to $248.00....not too shabby. I can't wait for the price to drop a bit more, I'm picking up a second one for sure.


----------



## NickIN

Got one with 12/14/04 build date today. HDMI works so far. Was wondering, how picky is D* about returning it with cables and such? Do I need to make sure I get everything that came with it in the box?


----------



## vonzoog

No.

My first return unit the rep told me to only return the unit. So I keep all of the cables and the remote (he told me to keep that also). It was nice to be able to keep the HDMI cable. They are not cheap to replace.

So far I have not heard anything back about this and have never been charged anything to my account.


----------



## keh

Bought my unit from BB using an initial purchase 10% off for their Rewards program. Hooked the unit up to my Samsung DLP and while waiting on hold to activate, started to see shimmering and color problems on screen. Picture went away shortly afterward. Had to hook up via component cables. That was a Friday. Fought with myself about whether I could be happy with using the components and of course, decided to get a fix. DirecTV instructed me to take the unit back, so on Sunday, I did just that. Oh, the first unit was made in Mexico. BB replaced the unit without a hassle.

Second unit is also Mexican-made. Hooked up HDMI cable and got a picture right away with no issues. That was second week of Nov 2004. Since then, the unit has performed without any HDMI problems.

I have had a few odd instances of not being able to pause a live TV program for longer than a few seconds and one instance of viewing one program while watching another, something that is not normally possible with my hookup (1 Sat In + 1 Ant In). Still wondering about these.

Hope the unit holds.


----------



## falz

> _Originally posted by keh _
> *Bought my unit from BB using an initial purchase 10% off for their Rewards program. Hooked the unit up to my Samsung DLP and while waiting on hold to activate, started to see shimmering and color problems on screen. Picture went away shortly afterward. Had to hook up via component cables. That was a Friday. Fought with myself about whether I could be happy with using the components and of course, decided to get a fix. DirecTV instructed me to take the unit back, so on Sunday, I did just that. Oh, the first unit was made in Mexico. BB replaced the unit without a hassle.
> 
> Second unit is also Mexican-made. Hooked up HDMI cable and got a picture right away with no issues. That was second week of Nov 2004. Since then, the unit has performed without any HDMI problems.
> 
> I have had a few odd instances of not being able to pause a live TV program for longer than a few seconds and one instance of viewing one program while watching another, something that is not normally possible with my hookup (1 Sat In + 1 Ant In). Still wondering about these.
> 
> Hope the unit holds. *


I'm in the same situation as you- Brand new unit from Best Buy, HDMI doesn't work out of the box. August date, I beleive. However, I'm skeptical that this truly is new, as before I had DirecTV subscribed, and before even hooking i up to a phone line, it had the last successfull call date of Dec 28th, 2004. Theoretically, it should have been sitting in the package on this date. So perhaps this was a reboxed known bad hdmi unit.

Anyhow- how does DirecTV handle the swapping of the units? I have extended warranty at Best Buy, so I would assume they will swap it out no problem (in box, full of all cables). Do you then just call DirecTV and they swap out receiver/card ID's that are subscribed, with no problems?

Thanks,
-falz


----------



## MarcusInMD

How does one go about finding the manufacture date? I looked on my brand new unit shipped from circuit city and I can't find a manufacture date.


----------



## starbucksfreak

> _Originally posted by falz _
> *I'm in the same situation as you- Brand new unit from Best Buy, HDMI doesn't work out of the box. August date, I beleive. However, I'm skeptical that this truly is new, as before I had DirecTV subscribed, and before even hooking i up to a phone line, it had the last successfull call date of Dec 28th, 2004. Theoretically, it should have been sitting in the package on this date. So perhaps this was a reboxed known bad hdmi unit.
> 
> Anyhow- how does DirecTV handle the swapping of the units? I have extended warranty at Best Buy, so I would assume they will swap it out no problem (in box, full of all cables). Do you then just call DirecTV and they swap out receiver/card ID's that are subscribed, with no problems?
> 
> Thanks,
> -falz *


From my experience (08/04 Mexico unit in service 11/04 with failure 01/05), there does not seem to be a very consistent approach to this issue from DirecTV.

The first rep I spoke with on the phone diagnosed the problem as a failure of the HDMI cable, not the port, and advised I return to the retailer from which I originally purchased the unit for assistance--or to see if I could persuade them to just replace the cable since it was such an expensive part. That was not a very satisfactory response. The second rep I spoke with the following morning took an entirely different approach--very apologetic and quick offer to FedEx out a replacement unit (which arrived today).

I then emailed DirecTV to express concern that the HDMI failure issue seemed to be fairly widespread and to seek assurances that a fix was indeed in place and thus the replacement unit would not suffer the same sudden failure. This is the response-->

___________________________________________________________

Subject: Failure of HR10-250 [Incident: 050110-004066]

01/12/2005 02:57 PM

Dear xxxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for writing. I apologize for any inconvenience that this issue may
have caused you. The DIRECTV HR10-250 is covered under a year waranty. This
eill allow us to replace any units that fail or have any problems wihtin
that year.

Though the situation that you have is very disturbing, i have been unable to
find any documentation as to whether the HDMI ports on these recievers do,
in fact, have flaws. I apologize if the representatives that you spoke with
made this issue seem wide spread, This is the first occurence that i have
researched.

Thanks again for writing and please stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for all of the
latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

Jonathan
DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## jsmoovey2004

Dear lord..... So, 1 day after I received my new unit from D* I had problems with the Access card (Of all things). Anywho, They couldn't activate it until today due to some computer glitches on their end. Today, the matter was resolved. However, I now have a NEW problem. The HDMI output still works (From previous posts), but there seems to be a video glitch that shifts the graphics and video halfway off the screen. The glitch happen all the time when I change resolutions. Funny, it's perfect in 1080 mode. 

After being on the phone for a total of 30+ hours with tech support(s) in the past months, they are shipping me yet another unit. 

CAN'T ANYONE MANUFACTURE THESE CORRECTLY?

Ugggggh (Ripping my hair out!)


----------



## jsmoovey2004

Oh, by the way. D* told me to take it up with Best Buy and that they should handle it. I told them that it was past 30 days and now it's your problem.... Deal with it. So, they did. I really must say, the people who work at D* really don't have a clue. I swear, If they send me another unit that doesn't work, there's going to be hell to pay! They've already credited my account, but their going to have to buy mine back if it don't work agin. 

(Crossing my fingers the everything including Hdmi works).


----------



## MarcusInMD

No one knows how to tell what the manufacture date is on these units? I looked again and could not find anything that looked like a date.


----------



## jsmoovey2004

I've never seen a unit without one. They are on the tivo itself -in the back of the unit (left side) on a sticker by the power cord.


----------



## obi1

Date on mine is located on tag on the back. Has serial number and a date stamped/embossed on bottom of tag. Too bad for me that it is a Oct 2004 date, and I am running with component cables as HDMI works for a while and then machine goes dead. Power down and power up sequence gets it working again. Sometimes unplugging HDMI cable and plugging it again also gets things going. On componet all seems ok. I am waiting for Goodguys to get a shipment in of later then mid Dec. Too bad that they must open the boxes to find build date. Has anyone any info on using serial number as a marker for good units?


----------



## falz

> _Originally posted by MarcusInMD _
> *No one knows how to tell what the manufacture date is on these units? I looked again and could not find anything that looked like a date. *


The sticker is on the left/back of the TiVo, the date is on the bottom of the sticker.


----------



## vonzoog

Somewhere in this thread or some other thread in this forum it has been stated that units manufacture in January 2005 do NOT have a date on the back. I believe it was stated that the date will be back again on units manufactured in February.

So, to my understanding, if you have no date on the back of your unit, be happy. This would mean the you (supposedly) have a "fixed" unit.


----------



## vonzoog

Check out the following thread whick is in the HDTV TiVo Powered PVRs section.

"Who has the latest Mfg date...and is it working?"


----------



## MarcusInMD

Interesting. I will look again, but I didnt see a date. I though perhaps it was coded or something in the serial number. My unit did say made in Mexico. Is the Date in a format like: "December 10th 2004" or "12/22/04"?


----------



## vonzoog

If it is there, you will see it. It is very obvious. This is why I think that you must have a January 2005 built Date.


----------



## MarcusInMD

That must be it. There is no date on the back of this unit. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that my new TV set gets here soon so I can try out the HDMI port and report back here.


----------



## vonzoog

Keep us informed. I am using component now because the HDMI gave out on me two weeks ago and that is my second receiver. I decided to just wait until I fell confident that I will receiver a post November date and that the majority of people are reporting success with the "newer" built dates.


----------



## obi1

I have not made much progress on the question regarding determining the build date by looking at the serial number. Perhaps if I rephrase.

Would someone who has a unit built after the magic date(say Dec 15,2004) , post the serial number of this machine on this thread?

With this knowledge, one should be able to determine a good unit without the requirement to open shipping box. The serial numbers are posted on the box, so any number that is higher then the one that gets posted should be a build date after Dec 15.

Obi
Silicon Valley, Ca


----------



## mwinn

Unit 1 sept 04 built in Mexico HDMI failed. Returned to Directv and got a Dec 14th Mexico unit. So far HDMI is working.


----------



## obi1

> _Originally posted by mwinn _
> *Unit 1 sept 04 built in Mexico HDMI failed. Returned to Directv and got a Dec 14th Mexico unit. So far HDMI is working. *


What's the serial number?


----------



## keh

Hi falz,



> _Originally posted by falz _
> 
> Anyhow- how does DirecTV handle the swapping of the units? I have extended warranty at Best Buy, so I would assume they will swap it out no problem (in box, full of all cables). Do you then just call DirecTV and they swap out receiver/card ID's that are subscribed, with no problems?
> 
> Thanks,
> -falz [/B]


Just to answer you directly, DirectTV directed me toward BestBuy. They said that since the unit was new (went bad on Day 1) I needed to take it back to them for replacement. That's what I did. I returned the activated access card with the first unit and received a new card with the replacement unit. The old card was deactivated.


----------



## jsmoovey2004

Wow, My experience with best buy was much different. Best Buy doesn't stock these units. So, I had to buy another one in store, have them deliver it to the store, go back to the stoe a week later, and then I had to have them buy it back. Then they were able to do an exchange.... After 30 days, I told direct tv that I didn't have to go to Best Buy because it's not there problem anymore. They then fedex me a new unit overnight. I had different problems with the new unit (Video displacement). So they tried to get me to take it back to best buy. I said no, fedex me units until I get one that work. They did..... 

It's just much easier having Dtv ship a new one.....even though they gave me hell.


----------



## Doug Hayashi

Crap. My HDMI card worked fine for 3 months on my Samsung 5063, then started going pink after the HDMI cable was unplugged and re-plugged in. I tried the "shimming the card 7/8ths of the way down", but couldn't get it to lock in a clear picture, but it is clearly a card seating issue.

Build Date Aug 02, 2004

-Doug

_ Add me to the List of Broken HDMI Interfaces _


----------



## Rott

When powering on and off my panasonic plasma with the HDMI connect, the pinkish hue appears. It is resolved when changing resolutions or when toggleing the aspect ratio. This problem does not exist with component video connects. So, is this an issue with the plasma tv or is this all related to the tivo box? 

Also, has anyone ever seen this: If the tivo is left on a local channel and the television is powered off, the next time the television is powered on, the tivo has changed the channel to a local I do not receive. This is out of the box, now recording settings have been selected. Its strange b/c this does not happen when on channels other than locals.


----------



## falz

> _Originally posted by keh _
> *Just to answer you directly, DirectTV directed me toward BestBuy. They said that since the unit was new (went bad on Day 1) I needed to take it back to them for replacement. That's what I did. I returned the activated access card with the first unit and received a new card with the replacement unit. The old card was deactivated. *


Thanks for the reply. I did go to best buy and got it swapped out no problem. The new one I picked was Mid Nov, but HDMI works thus far (two days). DirecTV had no problem changing service from one to the other. (except the fact that their comptuers were down for 5 hours the night that I got it, and I couldn't activate it forever).

--falz


----------



## falz

> _Originally posted by Rott _
> *Also, has anyone ever seen this: If the tivo is left on a local channel and the television is powered off, the next time the television is powered on, the tivo has changed the channel to a local I do not receive. This is out of the box, now recording settings have been selected. Its strange b/c this does not happen when on channels other than locals. *


Is the TiVo set to record its suggestions? Be sure that you set the channel data to only the channels you receive, and change the guide to change to only what you receive.

--falz


----------



## Rott

So........replacement box. HDMI into Panasonic Plasma, no issues. Then, power off and upon power on, washed out pink. Resolved when either changing aspect of changing resolution. Anyone with a Panansonic, is this a TV issue or the manner in which the Tivo receiver interacts with the television. Don't want to keep getting replacement receiver's if this is a known issue with the television that can be resolved. Please advise.


----------



## jlib

There are now 5 reported "post-fix" HDMI failures (11/30/04, 12/2/04, 12/2/04, 12/2/04, and 12/4/04 ) so far.


----------



## slacker9876

I have to change my vote to "My HDMI works" Just got a Mitsu 55515 and it is a thing a beauty. The only thing I am missing is an integrated DVR!!! My MFG date is 7/22/04


----------



## cooley25

Model HR10-250 HDMI failures:

1) Out of the box no HDMI to my new Sony KF42WE610. Unknown place and date of manufacture. Immediate replacement by CC.

2) HDMI worked for three weeks. Screen went red and then black. Unknown place and date of manufacture. Immediate replacement by CC.

3) HDMI was dead out of the box. Made in Mexico in Jan 05. Immediate replacement by CC.

4) HDMI was beautiful for 6 hours. Screen went red and then black. Made in Mexico in Jan 05. I haven't deceided if I want a replacement or if I will return for credit and wait for reliable equipment.

Each of the above units worked fine with composite or component output. When the HDMI worked it was beautiful.


----------



## mfleming

Why is everyone still putting themselves throught this torture. I had one bad one, read this forum, and decided I'm not going through with it until I know for sure it's fixed. 

Don't give them the business. Screw them.


----------



## Kbert5

<<Why is everyone still putting themselves throught this torture.>>

I've been wondering that too. Been lurking since last spring. I love my SD TIVO but I have a low tolerance for frustration. If the HR10-250s come down to maybe $400 I'd spring for one to use the component connection.


----------



## falz

> _Originally posted by mfleming_
> *Why is everyone still putting themselves throught this torture. I had one bad one, read this forum, and decided I'm not going through with it until I know for sure it's fixed.
> 
> Don't give them the business. Screw them.*


I know why I am- because I've had a TiVo for 4+ years and am quite fond of the interface. My movement into the world of HD was based strongly on there being and HD TiVo available- not an HD PVR, an HD TiVo. I would not have made the move without it.



> _Originally posted by Kbert5 _
> *I've been wondering that too. Been lurking since last spring. I love my SD TIVO but I have a low tolerance for frustration. If the HR10-250s come down to maybe $400 I'd spring for one to use the component connection. *


$400? If you think about it, the TiVo is a decent "deal". How much does an OTA tuner cost? Multiply that times two. Let's say you wish to use it as a tuner only (no DirecTV). You get dual tuners with HDMI output, and a 30 minute rewind buffer. I'm sure you could increase this buffer a lot if you wished to hack up the TiVo as well.

I just froogled "atsc tuner" and it looks like the starting point is $250. "atsc tuner hdmi" returned nothing.

Just my thoughts.

--falz


----------



## Rcam10

> _Originally posted by jlib _
> *There are now 5 reported "post-fix" HDMI failures (11/30/04, 12/2/04, 12/2/04, 12/2/04, and 12/4/04 ) so far. *


 Well, there is that post saying two with 01/05/05 were bad... and I thought someone said all Jan units didn't have a date on them? Its obvious that the 11/22 date is totally untrue. Also, I'm sure the cards are made at a different day than the actual box anyway.

So that would mean, IF the problem is totally on the card, it just depends on when all the old cards are used up.. because they aren't going to stop sending them just because they got OLD cards,,,, naa, they wouldn't do that..


----------



## tookie

A question with regard to the pink/green hue observed when the TV is switched off and then on (HDMI only), and which is cured by cycling through the Tivo output resolutions - has anyone found a cause or a cure for this specific fault? DTV are still claiming they haven't heard of this problem, that it must be the cable/television/anything but the unit, but still agreed to replace it.


----------



## Kbert5

<<$400? If you think about it, the TiVo is a decent "deal". >>

Perhaps if you're a football fan. I have zero interest in team sports but never miss televised golf and tennis. CBS covered a couple golf majors but they wont give me a waiver. ESPN will get around to covering my sports eventually.


----------



## dpriddy

> _Originally posted by jlib _
> *There are now 5 reported "post-fix" HDMI failures (11/30/04, 12/2/04, 12/2/04, 12/2/04, and 12/4/04 ) so far. *


I just swapped my Jun 04 unit with an Oct 28, 2004 build (Mexico), and the HDMI worked perfect out of the box. The only question I have is that there is a flicker about every 30 sec when on the TiVo menus, but goes away when watching a channel. I wonder if it could be my projector searching for a continuous signal, or just a warning of things to come...

Some good news from D*. The CSR gave me 6 mo free Showtime and 3 mo free HBO/Cinemax for my troubles - even though the unit came from CC. Not a bad tradeoff for my phone time.


----------



## jsmoovey2004

I'm back,

Just got my 5th replacement and it looks like it will be the last. Everything looks good (Jan 2005). I looked inside and found that the hdmi card has a different connection to the motherboard. Looks like they are soddering it right to the board (Different component).

Everthing is good, but the image is offset to the right in 480i mode and to the left in 480p. Had the same problem with the last unit. Does anyone else get this?


----------



## leres

> _Originally posted by jsmoovey2004 _
> *Just got my 5th replacement and it looks like it will be the last. Everything looks good (Jan 2005). I looked inside and found that the hdmi card has a different connection to the motherboard. Looks like they are soddering it right to the board (Different component). *


 How about some pictures?


----------



## jlib

> _Originally posted by jsmoovey2004 _
> *...I looked inside and found that the hdmi card has a different connection to the motherboard. Looks like they are soldering it right to the board (Different component).*


 So, to get the new soldered-in HDMI component we need a Jan mfg date? Too bad they are not specifying the actual date anymore. It looks like there really was a fix, then, except that the 11/22/04 fix date was not correct. Yes, pictures please!


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## BuffaloDenny

Well, I had to go get a TV with an HDMI input, so now I am part of this nightmare. I've had my HR10 for about a month via component with an 11/06 build date from Mexico. Get my new TV hooked up last Friday, and tried HDMI to no avail. Went out and spent too much $ on HDMI cables also to no avail. Then I was told by CSR that HDMI port was not activated on my unit and a software update at some point in the future would rectify this. I called BS and got a replacement shipped to me, which I haven't recieved yet. I feel like it's a crap shoot as to whether this one will work with HDMI or not, or if some other issues will be introduced.

My question is, is there a way to tell if the HDMI is working on the replacement unit BEFORE I have to call and activate with D*? If it's not working out of the box, I'd just as soon keep my existing unit because other than HDMI it has been flawless thus far. I don't want to go through the hassle of activating a new card and then trying to switch back, etc. if it can be avoided.


----------



## vonzoog

You are going to have to hook it up to know. However, it would be very doubtful/rare that you will have any problems running the replacement unit on component. You will be just back to were you started if the HDMI fails on the second unit.

Go for it. You may be lucky and really injoy it.

Good luck.


----------



## vonzoog

Sorry, just thought about this. Try stations 100 & 200. It will not be HD, however, you will be able to tell if the HDMI connection is working.


----------



## BuffaloDenny

Thanks Vonzoog! In keeping with the theme of this thread, I will post an update once I receive the unit. I'm hoping to have my home theater settled by end of week and be able to kick back and enjoy it just the way I wanted it, and this is the only outstanding issue right now.

I'm told HDMI is a superior connection to component, which I am currently enjoying. Is there any noticeable differences with HDMI? I ask because if not, then if the replacement doesn't work maybe I should just let it go and use component. We shall see.


----------



## Rcam10

> _Originally posted by jsmoovey2004 _
> *I'm back,
> 
> Just got my 5th replacement and it looks like it will be the last. Everything looks good (Jan 2005). I looked inside and found that the hdmi card has a different connection to the motherboard. Looks like they are soddering it right to the board (Different component).
> 
> Everthing is good, but the image is offset to the right in 480i mode and to the left in 480p. Had the same problem with the last unit. Does anyone else get this? *


Yeah, I'd like to see pictures also, if its possible. That kind of does away with the bad solder joint theory, if they've soldered the entire board onto the main one. Sounds more like the connector between the two, but then again lots have said a good card always repair it also, lol.

I assume since some claim Jan units that were still bad, and I saw one also, it was just some point in time in Jan they finally changed it. I'll look inside one made Dec 15th later, but I'm sure its the same plug in type.

That would be a somewhat involved redesign, because there wasn't just a few connections on that socket, there were lots.. Course, it never should have been a plug in of that type anyway, anyone that looked at it knew it was a problem waiting to happen.


----------



## garyk211

Received my January unit three days ago so far everything working ok.
We should have a poll on how many January units are ok.


----------



## obi1

> _Originally posted by garyk211 _
> *Received my January unit three days ago so far everything working ok.
> We should have a poll on how many January units are ok. *


 Be wonderful if someone would also post the serial number of units that are working well. Otherwise a person must dig into the packing box to find the date of manufacturer to determine if the unit may be a good one. This is my third request for this info. I assume that anyone who has a good unit, loses interest in this thread. What was it that some wag one said "I am in the boat, pull up the rope"?????


----------



## garyk211

January build
ser# 53b846ca


----------



## garyk211

correction on ser#
ka567e511k12u2


----------



## Rcam10

I just opened up one with that Dec 15th date I was talking about, its the same like from the beginning, except for one screw is different, on the back of the card. 

In other words, its not a "fixed" unit if some now have cards that don't plug in.


----------



## obi1

> _Originally posted by garyk211 _
> *correction on ser#
> ka567e511k12u2 *


 Thank you. Now if we can decode, it will be possible to determine a build date of Jan or later without the need to open the packaging container. My seller at Goodguys would not wish to open a whole lot of boxes to look for build dates on the units themselves.


----------



## katwell

My unit was purchased from BB and was assembled in Mexico. It does not work at all when connected using the HDMI port. D* tech support told me there was a problem with the HDMI cable. When I suggested getting another one, the tech support told me it would not fix the problem and that their technical team was working on a fix. It sounds more like a programming problem to me. Should I keep this unit and wait on D* to send a fix, or should I try returning the unit for a replacement from BB?


----------



## lakerholic

> _Originally posted by garyk211 _
> *Received my January unit three days ago so far everything working ok.
> We should have a poll on how many January units are ok. *


I just got my replacement 12/14/04 Mexico build yesterday, HDMI works! Fingers crossed....


----------



## TIVOhead #2

Sorry you're all still having so much trouble with the HDMI, whatever the manufacture date or manufacturing location. In an earlier post, I left out two phone munbers:

1. The $49 hardware upgrade (phase III dish, new wiring, 4X8 multiplexer) etc., all worth hundreds of dollars, is:

1-800-531-4388 and give the "special promotion code HDCK1144" and you'll get an appointment date for a D* subcontractor to do the work. Call anyway, whether or not you think you need it (what condition is your dish really in?) - so find out what the MOST is that they'll do for you for the $49 charge.

2. The D* Customer retention direct line is 1.800.600.8977

Remember, you are the customer, and service is their job. Be persistent!

And, Rupert, how about a blanket apology to all HD D* customers? I'm writing to you separately to ask you to to step up to the plate on that one. You know who we are - we're all HD w/TIVO customers. I would like you to warrant the HD10-250s as long as they are owned by the original owner, to be free of defects, period. Thanks!


----------



## Loquitur

Hi!

I got my first H10-250 yesterday and HDMI is DOA though component works fine. Info for the receiver is:

Made in Mexico
No Date
Serial number KA587 E522K 13FV

My projector read No HDMI signal except for a couple of occasions when it would momentarily flash a grey blank screen or a pink screen. 

Has anybody tried tightening the card? One of the guys on AVS says the HDMI cards come loose during shipping. If its a simple thing, I'd rather try it than go thru the hassle of replacing it.


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## Joe Jensen

My HDMI has worked for the most part. Three times the picture on HDMI will become all snow. If I unplug the cable from the TV and reconnect, the picture returns . Seems like some handshaking problem between the TV and the Tivo...joe


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## Robert Spalding

> My HDMI has worked for the most part. Three times the picture on HDMI will become all snow. If I unplug the cable from the TV and reconnect, the picture returns . Seems like some handshaking problem between the TV and the Tivo...joe


that's exactly what mine looks like! it looks like colored snow!
I am using the component until the new HDTIVo gets here.


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## Brian_InVA

I bought an HR10-250 on eBay. If I have an HDMI problem and need to return to DirecTv, I am wondering what kind of purchase documentation (if any) that they request. The manual says only that they need a receipt showing the date of purchase, and I have an eBay receipt which hopefully would suffice, but wanted to know what they ask for and if anyone has been given a hassle from buying through eBay or elsewhere.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## onejake

After my first HDMI was kaput out of the box, I promptly returned to BB to exchange. The second unit works fine. 

Both are 10/9/04 build dates.

Regarding the PQ. My gf noticed immediately without any knowledge I had switched inputs! Myself, since I'm so damn critical, I now see flaws in special effects. (see League of Extraordinary Gentlemen for example) 

Hooked to a Panny 42" HD (not ED) plasma.


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## mikeny

> _Originally posted by Brian_InVA _
> *I bought an HR10-250 on eBay. If I have an HDMI problem and need to return to DirecTv, I am wondering what kind of purchase documentation (if any) that they request. The manual says only that they need a receipt showing the date of purchase, and I have an eBay receipt which hopefully would suffice, but wanted to know what they ask for and if anyone has been given a hassle from buying through eBay or elsewhere.
> 
> Thanks for your help! *


It shouldn't be a problem. They'll just ask you for all of the serial numbers, e.g., for the unit and access card. Level 1 tried to send me to a local service center. Make sure you get to Level 2. Don't let them sell you the "Software fix is coming" speech. I never had to show any other docs.

Remember to ask for the order # for your replacement and then call back within the next couple of days to 'Equipment and Orders' for the tracking # It might take another few days after that for that tracking # to show in the FedEx system which could be a little unnerving. However, I was pleasantly surprised to get the replacement 1 day earlier than the "scheduled delivery date", as per the FedEx system.

HDMI is still working. It's been a whopping 24 days! It's an ME October 2004 manufacture date.

I've been told that it was a refurb. According to D*, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was internally adjusted. They said that often customers forfeit their equipment in lieu of paying for breaking their contracts. I'm just glad it's working.

Good luck.


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## jsmoovey2004

Brian,

Your unit is covered for 1 year- Regaurdless of where you purchased it from. As long as you have direct tv service, You should have NO problem (Well, with purchase information anyway) These units just came out in 2004, Soyou'llbeok


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## falz

On 3rd TiVo in about two weeks. If anyone's curious, here's what the "solarized" death looks like:










Since no one has taken any pictures of the HDMI card before and after the "fix", I'll take some pix of my pre-fixed one in a bit. While this one currently works, I'm sure it will die as well. When it does, I will take pix of a fixed one, assuming I get one.

More pix here:

http://falz.net/gallery/hdtv/

--falz


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## jeff125va

I had no HDMI problems with my first unit - #117 from V.E. last April, but with my replacement after the stuttering audio & video with the software upgrade this fall, my HDMI was DOA. DirecTV insisted it was a software problem which would be corrected "within a few months, hopefully" so I decided to use component and wait it out. The PQ is fine, but I can't use PiP with my DVD player, plus simply on principle for $1,000 I'd like one that works like it's supposed to.

So is there still a chance that there's ever actually going to be a software fix for this problem? I really don't feel like going through the hassle of getting another unit, losing all my recordings and having to re-do the second hard drive upgrade.


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## GeorgeL

The HDMI port on my HR10-250 died this morning after 35 days of service. I called D* and they (at first) tried to sell me on the software update fixing the HDMI issue. I told them that I was in a bind as my TV only has one set of component inputs and I will be unable to watch DVDs if the HDMI output on my D* box isn't functioning. The rep offered to ship me a "new" receiver FedEx 2nd day. I questioned his definition of "new". He said the replacement will be a brand new sealed unit, not a refurb. We'll see.

BTW, my unit was a Mexico built October 2004 manufacture date


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## Kbert5

falz:

Great pics!

<<I'm sure it will die as well. When it does, I will take pix of a fixed one, assuming I get one.>>

Thanks a meg.


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## mike2859

I have a different type of DVI failure. I connect to the DVI input on a plasma. All is well great picture. I turn off TV. Turn TV on and I get a pinkish noise type screen and HD Tivo is locked up i.e. frozen. I reboot Tivo and all is well. If I leave plasma on and switch to another input mode than turn TV off sometimes it will come back on ok other times it is locked up and I need to re boot. 
Perplexed in Miami
Mike


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## Robert Spalding

> I have a different type of DVI failure. I connect to the DVI input on a plasma. All is well great picture. I turn off TV. Turn TV on and I get a pinkish noise type screen and HD Tivo is locked up i.e. frozen. I reboot Tivo and all is well. If I leave plasma on and switch to another input mode than turn TV off sometimes it will come back on ok other times it is locked up and I need to re boot.


i have the exact same thing and directv has said they are aware and are working on a fix


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## funinsun50

Just thought I'd post a brief note on my DVI failure experience on a recently purchased HR10-250. I purchased my first unit on 12/28 and the DVI was DOA. I used the component video in the interim while I discussed the problem with D*. They gave me the SW line. The unit was born on 10/10 and was assembled in Mexico. No thanks to D* and thanks to the info in this forum, I returned the unit yesterday to Circuit City, 2 days before the 30 day deadline. They replaced the unit with only a few questions about the reason for the return.

The new unit was produced on 12/10 in Mexico. The DVI worked fine out of the box connected to a new HP 42" HD Plasma TV. I was back up and running in a matter of minutes. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## gobabygo

Another dead HDMI port here.

Born on 6/27/04, made in Mexico, and I've been running component out up until about a month ago. Finally got around to getting an hdmi/dvi adapter around the new year and everything was running fine until it died last week. I was setting up a HTPC so I was messing with cables and that's when the picture just went out.

I just called DirecTV and asked for the DVR Specialty Group (I think they might also be called the Advanced Products group) and the 1st rep transfered me right away. Talked to the person and told her my problem and she said she'd send out a replacement. Total time of call: 17 minutes.

She did ask if I had reformatted the hard drive (Clear & Delete everything) and I said that I hadn't, but she didn't hold that against me and is sending me a replacement anyway.

Hope I have better luck on the next one.


----------



## MarcusInMD

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have a Jan 05 unit that I bought three weeks ago and I was FINALLY able to check out the HDMI port on it with the new television. Everything appears as it should be. No problems so far. Knock on wood.  TV is a Sony CRT 34XS955.


----------



## dshedrick

Well, I'm on my second unit. 

First:
Made in Mexico
Date: 10/4/04
Purchased from BB on 1/17

My first unit died after 2 days of use. I could not get any picture using my HDMI connection. I returned it to BB and received another unit. Needless to say, I'm now getting red and green blocks blinking in and out. Unit worked fine for about 4 days prior to this problem.

2nd unit:
Made in Mexico
Date: 10/9/04
Purchased from BB

Thinking about calling D* to have them send me a replacement. I'm thinking if I make another exchange at BB I'll get a Mexico unit manufactured in 10/04.


----------



## HEHDaddy

My HDMI died a violent screen flashing, garbled pixel death. Thank heavens for Rapid Satellite. They replaced it ASAP via FedEx and paid for the old one to come back.


----------



## GW350

Exchanged my Sept 9 box the other day at Best Buy, waited till day 30 to hopefully get a newer build. They only had one in stock, it's a Sept 29 but HDMI so far is working and looks great... I kept my remote since it was programmed already, it was very sluggish and had to be pointed directly at the eye to work. Finally remembered to clear the remote address and reset it, works fine now. Hopefully this will hold me until all the mpeg4 stuff gets online and boxes start getting replaced...

GW


----------



## BuffaloDenny

Got my replacement yesterday and hooked it up - all is well so far on HDMI! Keeping my fingers crossed. It didn't have a man date on there, so I'm assuming it's one of the January builds. It replaces an 11/6 build date where HDMI was dead out of the box. Added bonus was I retuned my Monster HDMI cable I got as part of the troubleshooting process. The cables that came with are working just fine. Also, for some reason they sent me 2 HDMI cables with the replacement, but no DVI. So now I've got some extras. 

If you pass the 2 week period does that mean you should be OK?


----------



## lucymccrac

Now on my 2nd HR10-250 unit, both made in Mexico. Both connected to a Samsung 63" plasma HD tv. First unit worked off and on (after substantial tinkering) for just over 3 weeks before dying. Returned to BB for new unit which is working better than it did initially after I replaced the Hughes-supplied HDMI to DVI converter with a more substantial one from Gefen. The new cord is almost twice the circumference with heavier duty connectors. I continue to have the handshaking problem mentioned by an earlier poster.


----------



## dshedrick

OK, returned my 2nd unit to BB today. Spoke with a few people about the HDMI problem (which they haven't about). All of the ones they had in stock came in the same batch as my original. So, I ended up with another born on date of 10/9/04. I figure this is my last unit I'll get from Best Buy. If this one fails, I'll request D* to send me another one. As it appears they are the only dist. with a fresh build.

Wish me luck!!


----------



## stace

Got my replacement from DirecTV. Both my first one and the replacement were Mexican-made. The HDMI on the first one was screwy out of the box (posterized output). This one seems fine and dandy. I waited a few months (got my first one in October) to make sure people were getting good units out of DTV. This one had some DTV tape on the box, which makes me thing they tested it, at the very least, if it's not indeed a refurb.


----------



## dshedrick

Craig, was there a born on date on the your new system?


----------



## dshedrick

My third unit's HDMI interface stopped working this morning. I called D* and they are sending me a unit via FedEx.


----------



## rogue5

Chalk another victim to shotty engineering...

Can't remember what the born on date was or where it was made but I think it was Mexico and sometime in june of 04. Mine lasted almost the whole football season, I got it at the end of Aug and it started to act up on the sunday of the AFC/NFC championship games (16 Jan 05 ). I think I have a record on the length of time to destruction, I called D* when it started and it took them til this Sat to get a tech rep out to "verify" the problem. I am going to call them tonight to get a new one shipped out, has anyone swapped thier HDD in the Tivos before sending them back, I have some stuff that I would rather not lose on the drive. Anyone think D* would take offense to swapping out the HDD's? I have the Tivo service (insurance) plan so I am not worried about the replacement I just want to have the Super Bowl in glorious HD goodness!!!


----------



## kltazman

Just and update on my receiver Manufactures date Dec. It seem to be working fine still. Although, after I bought into D* HD and TIVO this article I read really puts things in perspective. I think it is good D* is looking into the future, but I hope they help us with the cost of the new machines and satellites fr the MPEG 4, specially after most of us have spend lots of money on what we thought is the future. That is before I joined this thread and learned otherwise.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvhdtv013105.html


----------



## jmjerome

Just got my Dell W4200HD after 3 days using hdmi it went out. D* said they would replace it or I could wait for the SW update which is suppose to fix the problem according the the Tech dude at D* who was reading from a memo that he received on 1/25/05. I decided to wait for awhile. I don't want to swap it out cuz I've recorded a bunch of stuff I wanted to keep. So we will wait and see. 

Has anyone received this SW update and if so did it fix the HDMI problem?


----------



## rogue5

From what I have seen on the board, and for myself, it is a hardware design flaw. They used a cheap glue instead of something better to hold the card to the main board, the glue at some point begins to not stick and away goes your connection. I managed to exstend the life of my port by losening the screws that hold it in place but I have a new one on the way. I am hoping to swap drives between the old one and the new one inorder to save my stuff. We'll see!


----------



## AVMann

It is now February 2005 and the HDMI outputs still don't work. In the last 1-2 months every unit was bad. (approx 10) At CES I talked to DirecTV and they didn't have a clue and didn't have a desire to find out why.


----------



## allans

I'm on my second unit. Both made in Mexico. First one with born date Nov, 04. The second one does not have a date. It is hooked up to Sharp LC32GD6U. Both had the same issue. At turn on, the screen is purple via HDMI. Even the side panels on 4:3 source were purple. The only way to fix it is to cycle through the resolution settings (480P, 720P, 1080i). Tried HDMI-DVI cable as the Sharp has a DVI input as well. No picture from both unit. Everything is fine through component out. I love it otherwise. I may return it and wait little.


----------



## obi1

I am so disgusted with D* and their inablity to resolve this problem. I have been sitting here with my original 250 that has the problem just watch all the crapola that many are going thru. If Comcast and their crummy service and DVR were any better, I would switch in a second. Maybe it is time to cancel a couple hundred dollars worth of services(D* and comcast cable modem) and just run off my antenna. This plus a 20 bucks a month to a video rental business sounds pretty good at this time.  A 12 year D* and 4 year Tivo subcriber. Looks like D* will be dumping Tivo down the road anyway so all the screwing around for these SNAFU HD Tivo's are for wont anyway.


----------



## ClaudioJ

When you guys state failure, does it include not seeing a picture?? I just recently installed my hr10-250 with the high defenition Sony Wega when I am viewing it with the HDMI connection everything works fine, but when I turn to any HD Channel I see the picture but no sound. Then when I connect it with composite I get audio. Any suggestions, D** CSR are no help at all.

CF


----------



## ClaudioJ

To add to above thread, I disconnected the HDMI Cable which the previous message it stated that cable was not connected now I am getting HDCP but still no sound.

:-(


----------



## ksoares

I am on my second HD unit. The first had some sort of catastrophic problem and stopped booting at all. 

The second arrived and ... voila ... no HDMI. So I call for (another) replacement and they eventually tell me that no replacement will be sent because it is a *software* issue. 

I had been assuming that was true until I hopped on this discussion today.

Now I want to get back to D* and get a replacement, except I want to be sure that I get a new, good one.

Is there any consensus on which version work properly? i.e. 'born" dates to check for, etc.?

Thanks
K.


----------



## rogue5

Not that I have seen ksoares. The only reason I am getting a new one is because I have the D* insurance plan for my Tivos. I don't thinkg they would have been as helpful if I didn't have it, when I called the first time they made me wait til they could send someone out to my house to "Verify" the problem. After the tech came out and "verified" (jiggled the HDMI cable and port) I called back and still had to talk to 3 people before I got someone to send me a new machine. It wasn't that big a deal but I did find it a bit time consuming to have to talk to 3 different peeps just to get a new machine even though I already have the insurance. Oh well I have the new machine in hand but I didn't get a return form or anything so I am not sending my old one back till they ask for it. I figure I didn't buy it from them and I paid full price for it so I should keep it. We'll see what happens, knowing my luck the one I got won't even work! Will check back once I hook it up and see whar is going on.


----------



## dsinder

After taking a look at the performance of D* on this, the shabby treatment I've gotten over the last ten years as a customer, my $100+ per month bill, and the fact that more often than not I can not find anything I feel is worth watching via D* I'm no longer a customer. They professed to be interested in keeping me as a customer but had only a little money to offer as incentive. I told them I was not interested in money but rather a reform in the way they did business. They offered a little more money. They really could not seem to get by the fact that money was not the issue.


----------



## dshedrick

Stop the presses. I received my forth unit yesterday, from D* and HDMI did not work out of the box. I wiggled the cable and a picture came up but was blinking pink and green boxes. This unit has no born on date, thus I'm assuming it's fairly new. I'm starting to believe it's a software problem. When the units is pwr'n up, the gray screen appears with no flaws. Only after it's finished loading the OS do I get the flawed picture. Just MHO....

I am very upset about all of this as I wanted to use my HDMI for the superbowl.. now I have to stick w/ my component video. so so sad. :-(


----------



## rogue5

Maybe there are two actual problems floating out there. Some of these issue are comming from a card problem (like jiggling the port and a clear picture comming up), but some of these issues are different (like colored blocks and other stuff). Maybe this is why there have been so many problems, and it could be hindering the whole troubleshooting process. hhhmmm


----------



## BuffaloDenny

> _Originally posted by dshedrick _
> *Stop the presses. I received my forth unit yesterday, from D* and HDMI did not work out of the box. I wiggled the cable and a picture came up but was blinking pink and green boxes. This unit has no born on date, thus I'm assuming it's fairly new. I'm starting to believe it's a software problem. When the units is pwr'n up, the gray screen appears with no flaws. Only after it's finished loading the OS do I get the flawed picture. Just MHO....
> 
> I am very upset about all of this as I wanted to use my HDMI for the superbowl.. now I have to stick w/ my component video. so so sad. :-( *


Don't fret. I too wanted the "best" connection available to me, and I've jumped through the hoops like many others to get HDMI up and running, and to be honest with you don't really notice a difference in PQ. I think with a good set of components you're just as well off.


----------



## bertschb

I didn't notice much difference in PQ with the DVI vs. component cable on my Sony GWIII either. But, I really need the HDMI-DVI to work so I can free up another HD input on my TV (mine only has 2 component and 1 DVI).


----------



## dshedrick

Well, one thing to remember is the cost of the device includes the HDMI feature.


----------



## bertschb

My third unit is on it's way. I sure hope it works. I've only got a couple more months of warranty left.


----------



## ChrisW6ATV

I made post #7 in this topic. Now, I just bought an HDCP-capable display, and my HDMI connector does not work! (Made in Mexico.) A replacement is on its way...


----------



## Loquitur

I hooked up my replacement 10-250 this morning and had the same HDMI problem as the first one - grey snowy screen , flashes of a pink screen and then a message from my projector HDMI Not Supported. This sequence would cycle periodically in 420p, 720p and 1080i outputs. I use a Gefen 4x1 HDTV DVI Switcher in my system and did not suspect a problem with it because I have been successfully using it with my Momitsu and my DISH 921, both with DVI outputs, for the last six months. I decided, as a last resort, to attach the HDMI DVI adapter to the cable running directly to the projector bypassing the HDTV switcher and lo and behold, the HDMI port had output. So I hooked up my first 10-250 and sure enough, the HDMI port was fine on that receiver as well so long as I avoided the Gefen DVI switch. Should I expect the Gefen HDTV 4x1 DVI switch to work with the HDMI output of the 10-250 with an adapter? Needless to say, I'm very happy that I don't have to return my first 10-250 because its all set up.


----------



## mikeaco

...I could change my vote! I had originally voted (after 3 weeks of no problems) that I have had no problems since my purchase on 12/22 from Circuit City. My unit was built on October 26th in Mexico.

The HDMI started to go out yesterday (I had the 'sloar' or 'polarized' picture look) and finally went out today...one day be fore the Superbowl! Stupid piece of HDMI piece of...

Anyway, I'm on components now and will probably wait to call D* until I get another HDD for 'backup' and future "upgrade" of the new replacement unit.


----------



## bertschb

Frustrating isn't it?

Hey, does anybody have THE difinitive date after which the HDMI issue has been resolved? I've heard a bunch of build dates but is there any official word on when the manufacturing actually changed and the HDMI card was fixed?

I've got unit #3 on the way and I'd like to know what to expect.


----------



## TiVonian

The information from the members of this forum has been very useful and I would like to add my experience with the HD-TiVo HDMI issues. 

My original HR10-250 was purchased last summer (Mex 06/2004 date) and later found to have the HDMI problems when I connected it to my new HDTV last fall. Most of the member described problems were present, pink and/or purple tint, shimmering pixilated picture, etc.

Based on the information in this forum, I waited until the end of January to contact D* about the problem. As I expected, the D* rep disavowed any knowledge of a problem, so I immediately and firmly requested escalation to a "Tier 2" rep. T2 agreed that a problem existed, had been identified and fixed, and offered to FedEx a replacement unit. I asked T2 if they were shipping new or refurbished units and I stated that if it was a refurb not to bother - just register my complaint and I would wait until a true "fix" was established. 

T2 stated that the unit to be shipped was "Brand New", and without the HDMI problem. The replacement was indeed a Brand New Mexican built unit. (NO mfg date could be found on nor inside the unit!) My original plan was to switch the HDMI daughter cards between the 2 units hoping for a quick and painless fix (Two 300G drives in the old unit) but this was not possible. The new unit has a completely redesigned HDMI card attachment to the motherboard. The card is still removable, but 100x more solid and secure than the old plastic socket method.

The NEW unit still has some issues though. The HDMI connection works well most of the time, but occasionally when the TV is turned on - the PINK picture is back. A couple of resolution changes seems to resolve the problem - for now at least. The second problem may, or may not, be HDTV related since I have seen other posts here describing essentially the same issue with other HDTVs and AV units. My HDTV (Sharp 45" LCD) goes silent and reports an "incompatible audio source" if the TiVo is set to output DD audio, otherwise, 2 CH "Standard" audio works OK over the HDMI interface. 

A new forum member-


----------



## Larry Chanin

> _Originally posted by TiVonian _
> *
> The second problem may, or may not, be HDTV related since I have seen other posts here describing essentially the same issue with other HDTVs and AV units. My HDTV (Sharp 45" LCD) goes silent and reports an "incompatible audio source" if the TiVo is set to output DD audio, otherwise, 2 CH "Standard" audio works OK over the HDMI interface.
> *


Hi TiVoian,

Just to clarify, are you saying that your Sharp display has HDMI inputs, and that there is a problem transmitting Dolby Digital audio via the HDMI connection?

Thanks.

Larry


----------



## falz

> _Originally posted by Larry Chanin _
> *Hi TiVoian,
> 
> Just to clarify, are you saying that your Sharp display has HDMI inputs, and that there is a problem transmitting Dolby Digital audio via the HDMI connection?*


DD cannot be passed over HDMI with any device, TiVo included. It's not in the spec (very lame that it's not).

--falz


----------



## ChrisW6ATV

So, HDMI lacks Dolby Digital support? What genius came up with that idea, I wonder? The HDMI Web site only mentions 'multi-channel surround sound'.


----------



## Rcam10

> _Originally posted by TiVonian _
> *
> The new unit has a completely redesigned HDMI card attachment to the motherboard. The card is still removable, but 100x more solid and secure than the old plastic socket method.
> 
> A new forum member- *


Can or has anyone took a picture of this change, and posted it somewhere? I haven't seen it but I woud like too.


----------



## bertschb

Can the new design be identified without opening the box?


----------



## jimmycash

Hi All,

I lost my HDMI port on my 10250 (Mexico, Aug 04) the other day. It's been working fine for 5 months into a Sony KD34XBR, then on Saturday morning it was a solarized - blue screen. Tried cables, resets, yadda, yadda, yadda but nothing brought it back. Went inside the IRD and found that by pushing down on the HDMI board right where the connector goes into the mother board, I was able to get it working but not with any consistency and now, from all the wiggling of the board, it's totally dead.

Called D* tech support just now and he told me it was a software issue that they're working on and that he will send me a replacement but it might develop the same problem. I told him I was able to temporarily get it working by wiggling the connector so I didn't think it was a software issue and he said "Oh yeah, sometimes it's a hardware problem". At any rate he was totally helpful and the replacement should be here in a few days.

Has anybody tried removing the HDMI interface board and ohming out it's connectors? Does it just plug into the mother board? I can't tell just by looking at it.
What's the glue on the 2 pins for?

Thanks.


----------



## leesweet

The HDMI board is screwed to the bracket that is then screwed to the back of the chassis. The 'glue' is only how the plug is attached to the HDMI board. If you remove the three screws on the back of the chassis, and bend the 'hold down clip' slightly, the HDMI board comes right out. My theory is that the connectors are too weak to control the plug/cable, and things get loose over time. (I had a dead HDMI after 6 months just from unplugging it twice.)

All indications are that if the card doesn't work, it's blown. Measuring anything at the plug at the bottom of the card won't help.

The problem you have is nothing to do with the runored 'software fix'. That's for incompatibility with some brands of displays, and with them, it never works correctly. Not the case for months of service and then it blows.

Tell them that you want a new box because it worked fine for 5 months; it's not software. If they balk, go to customer retention. The number is here in certain threads, or you can just call and put the buttom for 'cancel service'. It doesn't actually cancel anything but it transfers you to retention where they try to make you happy.

Tell them the story and that you want a new one under the 1 year warranty. They will probably send you a refurb, but it might have a good HDMI card and you can use the new machine, or, if you are brave, move the new HDMI card to your old box.


----------



## AztecRol

Before I make a vote, I wanted to know if anyone on here has the same setup that my cleint does. Client has a Samsung HLM437W DLP rear projection TV. The TV was hooked to a Samsung TS-160 HD DirecTv receiver. It was hooked up using the DVI - DVI cable, and worked fine. I installed a HR10-250 today and used the HDMI - DVI cable and the TV gave me "No signal detected". I know the input on the TV works because of the previous receiver. Does anyone have this TV/TiVo combo working????

I need to know if I need to send this unit back, or if its a compatability issue!

FYI, I am currently using the component input to watch the TiVo.

TIA for all your replies!!


----------



## bertschb

Unit #3 arrived today. HDMI works fine so far. I'm not sure what the build date is but the HDD inside had a Dec 30, 2004 manufacture date.


----------



## kimsan

Rejoining the HDMI failure club.

04 Nov 2004 unit was fine until Sunday. Then small solarized areas started showing up. Slight pressure on the cable cleared up the picture for a time. Last night was full screen full time solarization. Back to component for now.

Original unit was a total failure until HDMI card was reseated internally. It eventually died completely. This one seems to have an external connector problem. Different depths and angles of connection yield different to no level of solarization but I doubt the subtle motion is bending or warping the internal card. 

I do believe there may be a software issue at play in the incompatible sets, but these are hardware problems I'm seeing.

No need to worry about a trade-in just yet. Component is lovely and both OTA tuners are solid. I'll play wait and see until rerun season


----------



## UTV2TiVo

I was feeling lucky that I didn't have to join this thread. I'm on HR10-250 unit #2 but the first failed because of drive failure.
Yesterday (at least it didn't fail one day earlier during the super bowl!) the video signal went dead, I plugged in component cables and it works fine.
Unlike most people on this thread I had no warning. It went from working fine to dead, all at once. No polarization, color changes, etc.

The component cables are working fine so I am going to hold off a little while for a replacement. I hate the week+ I have to go without my TiVo while waiting for the replacement to arrive.

I'm fairly tolarant of failures of leading edge technology products but for a $1000 box, this is rediculous.


----------



## TiVonian

Larry Chanin said:


> Hi TiVoian,
> 
> Just to clarify, are you saying that your Sharp display has HDMI inputs, and that there is a problem transmitting Dolby Digital audio via the HDMI connection?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Larry


Re: Clarification

My Sharp HDTV is the new 45" direct view LCD model LC-45GX6U (1920x1080p)
The LCD display panel is separated, by some proprietary cables, from an "AV" box that contains the majority of the HDTV electronics. The "AV" box has (1) HDMI, (1) DVI-I, and multiple component and composite inputs. The DVI-I input can accept digital PC (DVI), Digital AV (DVI-HDCP), analog PC, or analog AV (Y-Pb-Pr),

When the HR10-250 is set to output DD audio, the Sharp displays a message stating that the audio stream is "incompatible", and goes silent. When the HR10-250 is set to output "standard" 2ch audio, everything is OK using HDMI as the only connection between the two units.

If the connection from the TiVo to the TV is HDMI->DVI with a separate audio path, everything is OK. (My current connection of choice.) The problem is only present when attempting to use the HDMI for its stated purpose of delivering a pure digital video and multi-channel audio connection through a single cable.

I don't currently have any other 5.1/HDMI output devices to enable me to ascertain if the problem lies with the TiVo or the Sharp. It could be as simple as Sharp either forgot or chose not to include an audio down mixer behind their HDMI interface.

I hope this is answers your question-


----------



## TiVonian

jimmycash said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Has anybody tried removing the HDMI interface board and ohming out it's connectors? Does it just plug into the mother board? I can't tell just by looking at it.
> What's the glue on the 2 pins for?
> 
> Thanks.


Jimmy-

Don't bother.

The old style connector that you described is the biggest piece of crap that I have ever seen for connecting two electronic circuit assemblies together---And that's 37 years in the IT repair business speaking.

When you get your new unit - and only if you are comfortable removing the cabinet to do it - please take a hi-res photo of the new style connector and post it for those wishing to see it. If not, I can dig my 10-250 back out of the AV stack and photograph it for all to see.

Thanks-


----------



## TiVonian

AztecRol said:


> Does anyone have this TV/TiVo combo working????
> 
> I need to know if I need to send this unit back, or if its a compatability issue!
> 
> FYI, I am currently using the component input to watch the TiVo.
> 
> TIA for all your replies!!


The DVI spec allows for either analog or digital signals to be passed. Check the DVI setup on your TV to see if it has the capability to be switched between analog and digital.

I don't have the same TV as you, but I did have to reconfigure my TV's DVI port from analog to digital input to connect the HR10-250.

Hope this helps..


----------



## jimmycash

TiVonian, will do, I'm hoping to get it today. No problem taking it apart I'm a techie too. I've already taken the bad one apart and removed the HDMI card to see what I can see and I didn't notice anything obviously wrong with it. I also took a high powered magnifyer and looked at all the pins on the connector hoping to find a broken one or a bad solder joint. No luck, it all looked nominal.


----------



## TiVonian

Jimmy-

I know that I'm stating the obvious... but since you will have both style units in your possession at the same time, please photograph both for comparison by the members of this forum.

Thanks, TiVonian-


----------



## jimmycash

Hi All,

Got my replacement HR10250 set up yesterday, so far all is well. It's a Mexico unit and I can't find a date on it anywhere.

Per TiVonian's request here's some (fuzzy) pics of the HDMI connectors from the old and new units. FYI, I had to do some major editing on these to get them down to >100kb and 640x640.


----------



## rogue5

Ok all,

I got my new hr10-250 from D*, now if only I could swap the HDD between the two I would be all set!! Does anyone out there know if that is possible, if so what do I need to do?

Thanks
josh


----------



## cocoon

The HD Tivo I received in September 2004 just had HDMI failure. For months of good HDMI. I called Directv they said they don't send replacements anymore. I was able to talk them into doing anyway but then the guy noticed that I had too many replacements. I was not able to talk them into making an exception for that one. They also claimed a software fix was in the works yeah right...

I think it was my 5th HD Tivo failure and one SD Tivo problem (suddenly it would only display black & white). 

From reading the posts since October I guess most have give up on DirecTV having a solution to this problem. I guess they have no incentive to fix them now that they are coming out "home media center" later this year.

Last year I was able to get them give a credit on my DirecTV bill has anyone been able to get a credit more then once over this issue?


----------



## jmorgis

Well, here we go again, my second replacement from DTV (Dec 2, 2004 Build date), the HDMI went 'solar' last night! I tried the cable wiggle, and reseating the card. Nothing I can do will fix this.

I am starting to believe that the Nov22 "fix" date is BS. I will be calling DTV again for a replacement. This sucks, as I will again lose my recordings, and all season passes. 

I was extremely carful with this unit, once installed I did not move it, reseat the HDMI. So im wondering why it would just die.

You would think that DTV, would fix this problem, as everytime one of these die, it costs them $$$ in shipping, customer service people time, and most of all customer satisfaction

 

JMorgis

-UPDATE- I just called DTV, #3's on its way  . Guy said to copy my saved recordings to VCR to prevent loosing them.! I cannot belive it! My VCR wont record 1080i !!!!!


----------



## ckelly33

I'm on TiVo #3 as well. My first one (lost video) was manufatured December/Mexico. My second didn't even have a date on it but was manufactured in Mexico. The second one came yesterday and failed yesterday (pink). They are shipping my third. 

I asked D* about the November thing. He denied that there has been any fix. He also calimed it is a software issue (which I doubt). 

What is the longest anyone has reported having one of these without it going bad? Mine is stacked on top of my amp but has plenty of room to breathe on top (nothing stacked there). I wonder if it would make any difference whatsoever if I stacked it all by itself. Has this been covered at all in the nearly 900 posts here?

One other question which I know is buried in here somewhere: what is the $250 D* service credit all about??

Thanks.


----------



## psyclonejack

I too just got my second HR10-250 and I had the pink screen through HDMI immediatley (11/19/04 Born On Date). I am asking the store for a newer one to see if it fixes the problem, though I doubt it will.

This is getting old, I am going to return everything if they cant get it to work soon.


----------



## Rcam10

Well, at least there has been some change, about time! Those pictures that were finally posted prove that. The Nov 22th date is way off, over a month apparently, but it could be the new type of connection from the HDMI card to the main board might be a fix. 

Time will tell..


----------



## starbucksfreak

TiVonian said:


> Re: Clarification
> 
> My Sharp HDTV is the new 45" direct view LCD model LC-45GX6U (1980x1080p)
> The LCD display panel is separated, by some proprietary cables, from an "AV" box that contains the majority of the HDTV electronics. The "AV" box has (1) HDMI, (1) DVI-I, and multiple component and composite inputs. The DVI-I input can accept digital PC (DVI), Digital AV (DVI-HDCP), analog PC, or analog AV (Y-Pb-Pr),
> 
> If the HD10-250 is set to output DD audio, the Sharp displays a message stating that the audio stream is "incompatible", and goes silent. When the HD10-250 is set to output "standard" 2ch audio, everything is OK using HDMI as the only connection between the two units.
> 
> If the connection from the TiVo to the TV is HDMI->DVI with a separate audio path, everything is OK. (My current connection of choice.) The problem is only present when attempting to use the HDMI for its stated purpose of delivering a pure digital video and multi-channel audio connection through a single cable.
> 
> I don't currently have any other 5.1/HDMI output devices to enable me to ascertain if the problem lies with the TiVo or the Sharp. It could be as simple as Sharp either forgot or chose not to include an audio down mixer behind their HDMI interface.
> 
> I hope this is answers your question-


TiVonian,

I have a similar Sharp unit (LC-45GD4U), except the tuner is not in a separate box. My initial connection to the HR10-250 was via the HDMI-->HDMI with a digital audio cable going directly to my Yamaha receiver. The same "incompatible audio" signal message would appear whenever I moved to an OTA digital audio or SAT HD channel via the TiVo (TiVo #2, I might add--the first being replaced by DirecTV following an HDMI failure). It took several calls to Sharp to determine that the issue apparently is as you say--a surprising oversight in an otherwise excellent LCD HD flat panel.

I had my Samsung DVD going direct to the Sharp via the DVI input, but changed that to accommodate the connection for the TiVo going to the DVI instead of the HDMI. That was two days ago, and it solved the problem of the nuisance error message appearing for several seconds on the Sharp. But then disaster struck tonight with TiVo #2--regrettably five minutes before the start of the Grammy awards.

The HR10-250 suddenly displayed a blue screen with the internal heat/shut down warning. I unplugged the unit and then attempted to reboot without success. The unit would get only so far and then halt, for some reason stuck on 480i. The Sharp then displayed a new error message about an incompatible video signal. The TiVo remote would not do anything, and attempts to control the TiVo via the front panel were useless.

A DirecTV Tier 2 rep immediately identified the problem as "an HDMI to DVI known issue" and instructed me to try connecting with component cable and then call back. That, of course, solved the problem. But when I called back and spoke with who I was told was a Tier 2 rep, there was considerable resistance to doing anything for me this time. The rep said the issue is widely known and that they are working on a downloadable fix. They would not send me a replacement unit, because--according to this rep--all of the current units produced either will fail right out of the box or within a short time. He had no idea when the "fix" would come and told me that DirecTV is now telling customers to use component connections as an interim solution.

When I told him that I originally paid for a unit that would have this state-of-the art HDMI connection, he became even more defensive and unhelpful--said that DirecTV does not make or sell directly this unit and that I should have paid more attention to internet discussions like those on this forum as a caveat before I bought the thing in the first place. At that point, I realized this guy just did not care about helping me, so I will call back in the morning. Don't know if this represents a new position by DirecTV or if I just got someone who hates working the night shift in Peoria, IL.

This is the second HR10-250 for me. It was sent to me by DirecTV in early January and has a mfc date of 12-13-04.


----------



## ckelly33

Is there any correlation between failure and output setting? (1080i vs. 720p, etc.)?


----------



## Travisimo

I ordered a HR10-250 from Value Electronics and received it today via UPS. I'm a new D* subscriber and this is my first HD DVR, so I've been following this thread closely. I have an RCA 50" DLP with HDMI input, so that's what I will be using as both of my component inputs are being used (one for XBOX and one for DVD).

My question is this: what device would I need to be able to have a switch between two component devices? For example, I wouldn't mind putting both my DVR player and my XBOX on a switch that goes to one of my TV's component inputs if that would work??? Is that possible? Would it degrade video quality?

I don't want to play the return game if a new unit is going to have the same problems, so I'll probably use the HDMI connection until it fails (if it even works out of the box, hehee). I'm getting hooked up tomorrow (hopefully), so I'll report back, but my unit was MANF. in December as well, so I'm sure it is prone to the HDMI failure.

I'll also try both connections to see which gives me the best vid quality on my TV.


----------



## UTV2TiVo

Travisimo said:


> My question is this: what device would I need to be able to have a switch between two component devices? .


Check out this thread for component video switching: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=223940


----------



## starbucksfreak

I spoke with another DirecTV specialist yesterday morning who was considerably more customer-focused. They are sending a replacement unit. He did say that the company is aware of the HDMI issue and was about to issue a software patch that they believe will rectify the problem. He said to look for a software version download with a designation of 3.15e. (He speculated that most units were now on version c.)

However, I strung component cables to the current bad unit and was able to boot it back into a normal operating mode. When I checked for the current version on that unit, it was 3.15e-01-2-357  downloaded via a call that occurred at 2:14 that morning. Thinking that perhaps the solution had arrived shortly after the second failed DVI incident, I reconnected the HDMI-to-DVI cable and powered up the TiVo. The screen immediately went into the overheat warning mode and the unit froze. So, I am not sure what to believe re a software fix and will await the replacement unit.


----------



## AbMagFab

3.1.5e has been out for months. Many people had 3.1.5d for a month or so before that. It's unlikely you just got the 3.1.5e version (you probably just noticed the call time, but the version has likely been 3.1.5e for a while).

Again, the CSR knows nothing. Even the nice ones know nothing. It's safest to never believe them.

It's also most likely there is a hardware and software HDMI issue. DirecTV just wants to put the ball in Tivo's court for a while, so they're claiming it's a software issue.

The bulk of the HDMI issues are clearly hardware based (wiggling the card causes a change; sudden pink/green solarization for no reason). The only possible software issue is the incompatibility with some TV's (i.e. the JVC issue).


----------



## bttop

HDMI port is failing after 12 weeks of use.
made in Mexico

Hard to describe the picture.....seems to have lost the red tones with associated
"shadowing" of "ghosting" of images. "Going solar" is exactly what it looks like.

Hope this helps.

bttop in Costa Mesa, CA


----------



## zoro

Brand new, HDMI non functional..


----------



## telenova

Per DirecTV technical support, contacted this morning, a software fix is expected within a week (i.e. by 2-22). The tech support rep said they have had "numerous" reports of the problem, are "well aware" of the need for a fix, and that their tech people are working on it. He said they are no longer authorized to send out replacement units, since they think the problem is not in the hardware. According to the rep I talked to, the "fix" will likely be reported as a message on the TiVo screen. In the meantime he says they are counselling users to watch HD through the (lower resolution) component connections.


----------



## telenova

Per DirecTV technical support, contacted this morning, a software fix is expected within a week (i.e. by 2-22). The tech support rep said they have had "numerous" reports of the problem, are "well aware" of the need for a fix, and that their tech people are working on it. He said they are no longer authorized to send out replacement units, since they think the problem is not in the hardware.


----------



## Budget_HT

telenova said:


> Per DirecTV technical support, ... In the meantime he says they are counselling users to watch HD through the (lower resolution) component connections.


What makes you think that the component outputs are lower resolution than the HDMI output? They are the same resolution.


----------



## Travisimo

As I reported in my thread asking for help on my new installation, my HDMI is dead-on-arrival with a unit made in Mexico on Dec 12.

Wouldn't it be surprising if the problem is software related since all of the units use the same firmware (obviously upgraded at different times)? Or is it that something in the software causes the HDMI to fail - would that be reversible via another software update? I would think that once the HDMI fails, it would not be fixable via software unless the problem was universal with all units.

So what am I to do? I'll call D* tomorrow, but is it true that they are no longer authorizing replacement units? If true and they don't get the ports working with the upcoming update, then wouldn't we have cause for a class-action complaint?

After paying $800 on this unit, I expect the HDMI to work out of the box and I find it hard to believe that it was DOA - but I tried everything I can think of to get it to work. Here are a few scenarios that seem possible to me:

1) They issue a software update that somehow "magically" turns on ports that are dead and somehow "magically" fixes ports that are causing picture problems, and somehow "magically" protects units that are operating normally from failing. My guess is that this is unlikely, but it would obviously be the best solution... doesn't require an exchange and fixes all of our problems.

2) They fix the hardware issue and continue replacing units that are defective. Obviously, they aren't going to want to continue replacing units, but a significant chuck of users probably aren't using the HDMI anyway and wont' even know if it doesn't work. For those of us who DO need the ports, they should have a no-hassle replacement.

3) They refuse to replace units with bad HDMI ports and a software update does not fix the problem (meaning, it IS hardware related). In this case, those of us with bad parts would certainly seem to have a case for a class-action complaint. A high-ticket unit like this should work as advertised. However, there's also the possibility that D* might stall on the issue until they have a MPEG4 unit available that is similar to the HR10-250 and offer IT as a replacement. 

All that said, I have a few followup questions:

A) I bought my unit from Value Electronics with the 5 yr warranty. Do I assume correctly that I need to call D* directly within the 1st year for warranty issues and then the VE warranty company after that? Or how does that work?

B) What is the verdict on picture quality differences between HDMI and component? Does it just depend on the TV or is one inherently better than the other? Right now, the PQ via component outputs looks pretty good to me, but then again, I haven't seen it via HDMI so I can't compare! All I know is that I have to come up with a viable solution in order to hook up my DVD player and XBOX too...

C) For those that have gotten replacement units, how does it work? Do they send you a replacement first and then you send the bad one back, or do you have to send the bad one back first? And then when you hook up the new one, I assume you have to call D* again to activate it, right?

Thanks.


----------



## starbucksfreak

Travisimo said:


> As I reported in my thread asking for help on my new installation, my HDMI is dead-on-arrival with a unit made in Mexico on Dec 12.
> 
> Wouldn't it be surprising if the problem is software related since all of the units use the same firmware (obviously upgraded at different times)? Or is it that something in the software causes the HDMI to fail - would that be reversible via another software update? I would think that once the HDMI fails, it would not be fixable via software unless the problem was universal with all units.
> 
> So what am I to do? I'll call D* tomorrow, but is it true that they are no longer authorizing replacement units? If true and they don't get the ports working with the upcoming update, then wouldn't we have cause for a class-action complaint?
> 
> After paying $800 on this unit, I expect the HDMI to work out of the box and I find it hard to believe that it was DOA - but I tried everything I can think of to get it to work. Here are a few scenarios that seem possible to me:
> 
> 1) They issue a software update that somehow "magically" turns on ports that are dead and somehow "magically" fixes ports that are causing picture problems, and somehow "magically" protects units that are operating normally from failing. My guess is that this is unlikely, but it would obviously be the best solution... doesn't require an exchange and fixes all of our problems.
> 
> 2) They fix the hardware issue and continue replacing units that are defective. Obviously, they aren't going to want to continue replacing units, but a significant chuck of users probably aren't using the HDMI anyway and wont' even know if it doesn't work. For those of us who DO need the ports, they should have a no-hassle replacement.
> 
> 3) They refuse to replace units with bad HDMI ports and a software update does not fix the problem (meaning, it IS hardware related). In this case, those of us with bad parts would certainly seem to have a case for a class-action complaint. A high-ticket unit like this should work as advertised. However, there's also the possibility that D* might stall on the issue until they have a MPEG4 unit available that is similar to the HR10-250 and offer IT as a replacement.
> 
> All that said, I have a few followup questions:
> 
> A) I bought my unit from Value Electronics with the 5 yr warranty. Do I assume correctly that I need to call D* directly within the 1st year for warranty issues and then the VE warranty company after that? Or how does that work?
> 
> B) What is the verdict on picture quality differences between HDMI and component? Does it just depend on the TV or is one inherently better than the other? Right now, the PQ via component outputs looks pretty good to me, but then again, I haven't seen it via HDMI so I can't compare! All I know is that I have to come up with a viable solution in order to hook up my DVD player and XBOX too...
> 
> C) For those that have gotten replacement units, how does it work? Do they send you a replacement first and then you send the bad one back, or do you have to send the bad one back first? And then when you hook up the new one, I assume you have to call D* again to activate it, right?
> 
> Thanks.


Re the replacement procedure on defective units, it's been my experience that D* will ship out the unit via FedEx (ground--not overnight) with specific return instructions and a pre-paid FedEx label for the bad unit. No need to return cables, remote--They just want the main unit. Put the old one in the same box that the new one came in and call FedEx for pick-up. I've read in other posts that D* protects themselves against fraud by posting a $1,000 charge to your account if they do not receive the old unit in a reasonable period of time. I did not experience that.

I do think that D* has issued new word tracks to their CSRs that are aimed at curtailing the level of replacement units they are apparently sending out--based upon my experience this past weekend (First rep immediately acknowledged problem but then gave the software fix imminent speech--Told me to try compnent cables and call back to report results. On callback, anoher rep flat out said they were no longer replacing units because they are all bad until the magic software patch is installed. Absolute refusal. Next morning, a new CSR again confirmed the software fix coming very soon story, but also said they would be happy to replace my unit for a second time rather than have me have to use component cable or wait for the software.

I tend to agree with the other poster who questioned the software story. The bad unit I have actually has the software version that they said was the one coming very soon with the fix. Today when I questioned D* on this, the CSR of the day said that since I had the 3.1.5 version, the one with the HDMI fix would be "higher" than the one I currently have. . .Certainly enough to give anyone doubts about whether they have any clue at all.

Re using the component cables, I guess I have convinced myself that they could not possibly deliver PQ like the HDMI, probably because every thing I read says it is the "ultimate" HD hook-up. But after stringing the component cables on my bad unit while waiting for the new replacement, I must say the picture is outstanding in HD--to my eye at least comparable to HDMI, and I could swear even better on the OTA digital channels--although I have no idea what basis if any there would be for that. I also like the snug connection a lot more than the HDMI--which always feels sort of like a loose tooth to me.


----------



## turls

If you run into any trouble with D* B.S., in warranty or not, you might want to consider this route.



DTV TiVo Dealer said:


> Here's a deal for all TCF members If you have a HR10-250 with a defective HDMI output just send me a email and I will have your HD DVR replaced at no charge with a new HR10-250 and have a prepaid Fed Ex self addressed return shipping label sent to pick up your defective HR10-250. As I said, "NO one should have a HR10-250 with a defective HDMI output."
> 
> Send your emails to [email protected] for an immediate advance replacement HR10-250, because NO one should have a defective HDMI output. Include you name, address, DIRECTV service phone number on record and the access card number.


----------



## jmorgis

Just got my 3rd replacement in today. Unit came in Nov 27 Build. I opened it up, and its has the "old" style card. Same as my Dec 2 build. I just moved the new HDMI into my HDtivo, and bing bang, Im back in business. (At least for now). Fix took less then 5 minutes. And I keep all my saved programming!

JM


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## zoro

Would value electronics replace unit purchased from them or any authorized dealers?


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## tivon00bie

I am also having the problem. Unit went bad after about 3 months. The picture now looks like everyone spent a little too much time in the sun. Everyone looks severely burned. Literally. 

We're going to return the unti to Best Buy since we have a protection plan. If we get another faulty one, we'll probably just downgrade to a regular Tivo until the problem is fixed.


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## turls

zoro said:


> Would value electronics replace unit purchased from them or any authorized dealers?


That's sure the way I interpret it. I don't even think you had to have purchased it from an authorized dealer. If its got a truly manufacture-defective HDMI what difference does it really make? D* isn't being fair about it so maybe somebody else will.


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## zoro

I got a pm from Robert at VE. I am extremely grateful for his kindness..thnx


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## ckelly33

All right I'm pretty unclear about a couple of things:

jmorgis: How did you "...keep all my saved programming!"? Everytime I exchange, I lose everything that's on my old one. 

turls: So Value Electronics are replacing units that weren't bought from them??

Sorry if I'm missing something here, but I appreciate your answers!

Chris


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## mintakaX

If it weren't so pathetic, this "software fix" issue would be funny. How could software fix something that jiggling a cable can cause ??? Who are they trying to fool ? I just went to component connections for now. I'll return my bad dvi unit to Weaknees when I believe that they have truly fixed the "hardware" problem. How will we know when this happens ? Will we have to wait several months after each new "built on date" to see if new units fail ?


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## jmorgis

To keep your programming, just move the HDMI card from the new replacement to your box. You can only do this if DTV sends you the old style HDMI card. They changed the connector in the new ones. (Make sure you pull your power cord first). 

Piece of cake!

JM


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## ckelly33

I see....


----------



## turls

I just quoted him. I don't know if he has done this already, how long he plans on doing it, or what the specifics are. If the new HDMI cards aren't compatible with the old, I'm still going to lose recordings and setup when/if mine flakes out. But at least its something, if he comes through.



ckelly33 said:


> turls: So Value Electronics are replacing units that weren't bought from them??


----------



## f0gax

Where does one find the "born on date"?
I just got my first HR10 today and couldn't find any kind of date on the outside of the unit.


----------



## mfleming

I've asked this before and didn't get any replies, so I'll try again now that it's a few months later.

Is there ANY other alternative to this POS box coming to market in the near future?


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## psyclonejack

The date is on the back panel on the left plate on where the service number etc. is. Look towards the bottom and you should see a date


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## vonzoog

If there is no date stated, then you have a January 2005 manufacture date. That is good. Be happy!


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## bertschb

My third unit has no visible build date. The HDD was dated 12/30/2004 so I suspect mine was manufactured in January. I've had it for 10 days now and it works OK so far.


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## bertschb

Great! Mine is a January build. Got it 2/7/2005. Just got the dreaded "overheat" message. HDMI is dead. So, unit #3 lasted 11 days.

Un-be-lie-va-ble!

DirecTV needs to replace all these units for free when they get the fix - even after the warranty expires. This is rediculous.


----------



## starbucksfreak

bertschb said:


> Great! Mine is a January build. Got it 2/7/2005. Just got the dreaded "overheat" message. HDMI is dead. So, unit #3 lasted 11 days.
> 
> Un-be-lie-va-ble!
> 
> DirecTV needs to replace all these units for free when they get the fix - even after the warranty expires. This is rediculous.


I agree. My first HR10-250 was an Oct04 build. Failed within a month of use. Replaced by DirecTV with a unit with a Dec 13, 04 build. That failed within 3 weeks. Received replacement unit #3 yesterday from DirecTV, but it is actually older than the last one, showing a build date of Nov 27, 04 (Saturday??). I'm not sure I'm even going to use it.

The company still is sticking with the software fix is coming soon word track. I don't think that is the answer, but I also do not believe there has been any effective production/hardware change. Your experience validates that.


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## sotapoppy

I just got my 4th HR10-250 (new unit with a Nov 27, 04 date) on Friday. The 1st three all had HDMI ports that failed, each working fine for ~ 3 months. It took over an hour arguing with D* advanced tech CSR on Monday to get them to send a new unit. I talked to five different people during the course of one call. Each CSR had different but _equally idiotic _ things to say. 

I completed the setup on Friday. I set up my season passes yesterday, once the guide info was updated. All was well, until today. My new HR10-250's HDMI port died today.

I also noticed this HR10-250 actually is a slightly different color than the first three. Believe it or not, when comparing it side by side with unit #3, the face plate on unit #4 actually seems to have a pinkish hue to it.


----------



## Beckzilla

After reading all the posts the last few weeks about HDMI failures since I am in the same boat as everybody else and am on my fifth unit ( first 3 from CC,all with DOA HDMI out of the box and 2 from BB, first had bad HDD and my current one lost HDMI yesterday, it perplexes me that anyone would deal with D* for any DVR problems. D* is just another example of a large company that knows not what one hand is doing as opposed to the other. To treat customers that have spent ALOT of money on these units the way they do is an atrocity and should not be tolerated. The only reason I decided to spend the extra cash on this unit was all its extra features and am very disappointed on its overall performance. Besides the HDMI problems, the modem is ridiculously slow, the channel guide is slow, the OTA tuner sucks as many have reported ( I have OTA problems too ) not picking up all the local HD channels and many having to try using attentuators to help the problem. Funny, but my Sony's OTA tuner picks up ALL the channels perfectly! Whats up with that D*? To read all the posts of D* CSR's telling customers ( not just people, real CUSTOMERS ) that the HDMI problem is totally software oriented is a travesty as when mine went bad yesterday I took the cover off and booted up and put my finger on the HDMI card and could make the picture change from bad to good simply by pushing the card side-to-side. Software issue??? Horsehockey!! As I was rocking the card back and forth I thought of the quote from Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now " The horror....The horror." Oh, did I just say all that out loud?


----------



## bertschb

The reason we put up with it is because DirecTv and their HDTivo is really the only game in town. Dish has HD content but they make the worlds worst hardware. Just about every DVR they have ever released is FULL of bugs. After two years of beta testing with the units in customers hands their boxes start working - for the most part. Trouble is, even when they start working they are pretty feeble. Most don't even have dual tuners. No name based recording. The list goes on and on.

This isn't really a DISH bashing post, I'm just telling you why we stick with DirecTv. For me, there is no other option. I wouldn't use DISH equipment if it was free. Other than the HDMI port, the DirecTv HDTivo works GREAT. We just have to use component cables. On my Sony GWII, it looks just as good as HDMI.

If DISH ever makes a fully functional, bug free DVR with a "normal" feature set that didn't require me to have two or three satellite dishes on my roof I'd switch so fast it would make your head spin.


----------



## sotapoppy

bertschb said:


> Other than the HDMI port, the DirecTv HDTivo works GREAT. We just have to use component cables. On my Sony GWII, it looks just as good as HDMI.


How would you feel if the picture was significantly better via HDMI (as is the case for me)? I agree the picture is very good on component. But it is noticably better via HDMI and I paid for that feature.


----------



## clayb

My HDMI port failed about 3 weeks ago with a solarization type error. I have spoken to the CSR at D* today, and got the usual bs answer: coming out with a firmware fix to solve the problem. Given the repeated failure rate, I suspect that their intention is to hold everyone off until they come out with their MPEG4 unit this summer. Thoughts?


----------



## bertschb

Yeah, that would make me even more upset if the HDMI looked better. The biggest problem with the failed HDMI port for me is I really need that extra connection on my TV. When the HDMI port works I can use the DVI port on my Sony for the Tivo. When HDMI fails I have to unplug the DVD player from the TV and use that port for the Tivo. I refuse to spend my money on a switch for the component connections.

It's a bad situation for all of us that paid for (and need) the HDMI connection on the HDTivo.


----------



## leesweet

In case it wasn't mentioned recently..  Be sure to not take the 'software fix for HDMI is coming' story unless you have one of the few displays that has HDMI sync issues with the HR10. The other things that we have all suffered from are hardware issues and no software fix can repair the HDMI daughterboard.

And, also, the issue with refurbs isn't that they are dead, it's that D* has never (AFAICT) tested one returned unit for HDMI hardware failure before sending it out again as a refurb.

I can't see why they don't. Even if they think most people don't use HDMI (true), if someone returns one with 'HDMI blown' on it, that means *they* need a one where HDMI has been tested!


----------



## mikeaco

Well, I had posted a couple of weeks ago that I had lost the HDMI output on my 10/22 - Mexico build unit (it was a couple of days before the Superbowl). I had to call FOUR times between then and now for me to receive a replacement. The funny thing is that they still don't know where my order is (i.e. they can't track it or give me any information regarding the replacement unit), yet I received a replacement today - FedEx overnight. It's a November build unit. I did a quick power on and the HDMI works (for now). Something tells me it's a "refurb". The problem is that there is no return info or pre-paid return label. So, I'm going to have to call them again to get that straightened out. Sheesh!

Question: When others have orderd replacements, is your D* online account updated with the fact that they sent the replacement out? Is there information on the order section? How/when will they update the account to charge the $1000 for the receiver if the bad one it isn't returned on time? I imagine that it will take a week or two to get the pre-paid return label thing straightened out...


----------



## DAW

My HDMI port went out last night. I could wiggle the connection and the picture would come and go and then it was out for good. I called DirecTV and, after being on hold for over an hour and talking to four different people, I finally got someone that set up a replacement unit. This is my second failure; my first unit was delivered with a DOA HDMI port in May of last year. The second unit worked fine until last night. The first one was made in the USA. I have no clue where the second was made.

I wish the first choice on the DirecTV phone menus was "Touch one if you are the typical idiot that calls with dead remote batteries or some other stupid question so we can tell you to reset your unit. Touch two if you know what the &%#@ you are doing." 

At least they are replacing my unit. I hope the new one works.


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## bertschb

I hope your new box works too but I'm 95% sure it won't. My last one was built in January and lasted just a few days. It has a different HDMI card than my first three but it didn't matter. Still failed. From what I can tell there is no fix (even though some said it was redesigned and fixed late last year). Redesigned? Maybe. Fixed? No.


----------



## Travisimo

Travisimo said:


> As I reported in my thread asking for help on my new installation, my HDMI is dead-on-arrival with a unit made in Mexico on Dec 12.


UPDATE:

Here is an update to my HDMI failure. Signed up for D* about a week ago and the HDMI port was dead on arrival. Since I bought the unit from Value Electronics, I called them and Graham said he would take care of it for me. My replacement unit came today and I am happy to report the HDMI works fine and has *slightly* better picture quality on my RCA 50" DLP. There is no manfacture date, so I assume it's a newer unit, though I'm sure the port will still fail over time since others with newer units have reported failures too.

I say definitely INSIST on replacement of any units with defective HDMI ports as many times as it takes. The more returns they get, the quicker (you'd think) they will respond to the problem. It costs them money to replace units, so one would think they would try a bit harder to get the ports working finally.

Personally, I don't *have* to use the HDMI port... the component connection still looks great, but that's not the point. I would have to get a splitter in order to use the component connection and I shouldn't have to do that. However, if the HDMI port goes out again, I might wait a while to get the exchange until we hear something concrete about a fix - there's no point in getting multiple exchanges when we know they will keep failing (not to mention it's a pain in the butt if you're forced to reactivate each one and lose all of your recordings).


----------



## mikeaco

mikeaco said:


> ...I had to call FOUR times between then and now for me to receive a replacement. The funny thing is that they still don't know where my order is (i.e. they can't track it or give me any information regarding the replacement unit), yet I received a replacement today - FedEx overnight....The problem is that there is no return info or pre-paid return label. So, I'm going to have to call them again to get that straightened out. Sheesh!


The saga continues...after about 1 hour on the phone and being transferred to 5 different people, they still don't know how a replacement was sent to me. And, they don't know how to send out a pre-paid return label for a replacement receiver that doesn't exist in their system! I wonder if there is *any* record of that receiver being sent to me. Well, it'll take a week for them to "escalate" it to figure out what is going on. Meanwhile, the person that I spoke to yesterday *before* the FedEx guy showed up was going to try and order me another replacement unit. I don't really understand how their systems could be so screwed up. I wonder if this has happened to anyone else before...probably not...


----------



## avNeophyte

How do I change my vote in this poll? I previously voted 'No HDMI Failure' but that is no longer true.

My original, made-in-the-USA unit died with the stuttering lock-up problem in the fall. The replacement worked well until this weekend. As of Sunday, all output on the HDMI port has the pink 'posterized' look. Component outputs are fine.

I'll be calling for my 3rd box tonight.


----------



## leesweet

AFAIK, you can't change the vote. Polls aren't made to be a tracking mechanism over time, but a snapshot. 

I've got two of the same problems. I would change my vote, since one of mine failed after being unplugged/replugged in twice (the HDMI, I mean), and I also didn't get a FedEx label, they tried to send it twice, no luck, and now *that's* being escalated and could take 1-2 *weeks* to get me the label.

Meanwhile, I get the calls from the place that says 'send it back or else!' and they aren't open after 9-5, and have no way to look at the account to see *why* you've not returned the old one.


----------



## idrinkmolson

Hi,
1st post here.

I've had my HD Ti-Vo for about 3 weeks. The HDMI was solarized (blue) out of the box.

What do you suggest is my best plan?
Exchange at Best Buy (where I bought it)
Or contact D* and see about a replacement.

The other option is, I bought the service plan from BB. But, I really don't want to give up my receiver for weeks. Copmonent cables do work.
I didn't return right away, because I wanted it for the Super Bowl and Daytona 500.

Thanks, I appreciate your input.

PS I misspelled: copmonent, because I kept getting this:
Your Post contains one or more URLs or image calls, please remove them before submitting your message again. To prevent the abuse of spam, we have set this restriction in place until after you make 5 posts.


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## love2tivo

I'm in the same situation. I just purchased a 42" Sony LCD TV so it's the first time to use the HDMI port, and it's dead...no picture at all. I purchased the extended warranty at Best Buy, but I have a feeling if I replace the unit through DTV that it will void the BB warranty due to the different serial number. Please let me know if you find out anything different.

Thanks,
Brian


----------



## mikeaco

leesweet said:


> ...and I also didn't get a FedEx label, they tried to send it twice, no luck, and now *that's* being escalated and could take 1-2 *weeks* to get me the label.
> 
> Meanwhile, I get the calls from the place that says 'send it back or else!' and they aren't open after 9-5, and have no way to look at the account to see *why* you've not returned the old one.


Great...that's what I figured...someone would know that they sent me one and would be wondering when the defective unit would come back to them. Is there anything in your D* account under "order status" or "activity since last bill" that says they sent out a replacement to you? Also, when you say that they told you to 'send it back or else', are they referring to the one they sent you (the replacement) or your defective one?

I'm very curious as to how this will turn out. But, I know I'm not sending back the defective one until I get that return label sent to me...


----------



## Travisimo

For those with dead or defective HDMI ports:

As you may have read, I exchanged my DOA unit (bad HDMI port) with a new one and so far, it is working fine. However, after everything I've read on here, I'm fully expecting it to malfunction at some point in the near future (seems to be within a few months at most).

MY ADVICE: The units come with a 1 year warranty. And so far, there is no indication that D* has fixed the hardware problem. With that said, I think it would be silly to keep exchanging units with replacements that will probably have the same problem. It might be better to wait a few months and see what D* comes up with in terms of a fix or replacement (unless, of course, your warranty is ending soon). If my HDMI port goes bad on this one, that's what I'll be doing: waiting until there is a definite fix. For me, it would be less of an inconvenience to just use the component cables for a while instead of taking the time to return another unit, reactivate a replacement, reset all of my timers, etc. Obviously, for some, the HDMI is the only way they can go though...


----------



## falz

love2tivo said:


> I'm in the same situation. I just purchased a 42" Sony LCD TV so it's the first time to use the HDMI port, and it's dead...no picture at all. I purchased the extended warranty at Best Buy, but I have a feeling if I replace the unit through DTV that it will void the BB warranty due to the different serial number. Please let me know if you find out anything different.


You're probably right. Just be careful that you do the exchange while the unit is still under the manufacturer's warranty. Extended warranties such as Best Buy are considered "fulfilled" once the unit is swapped out for a new one.

--falz


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## love2tivo

Thanks for the message. Yes, it's still under the manufacturer warranty right now, so I'll call DTV when I get home to see what the best course of action is. My main concern is voiding the the Best Buy warranty before it ever goes into effect.

Thanks again,
Brian


----------



## austinsho

Quick question here...having no proper monitor on which to check the HDMI port on my brand new 250 (made in OCTOBER) can someone please tell me if using the included cable to hook it up to a DVI port on a computer monitor will properly test it.


----------



## rogue5

Well, my HDMI port went **** up just after the Superbowl but I already had the new one from D* in hand (it started to slowly die in mid Jan). I have yet to install and activate the new one, I have too much crap on the old one. I don't plan on sending the old one back because they didn't ask for it back. I paid for the Tivo insurance (7.99 a month) so I feel I don't owe them squat. I have gotten swapped out recievers from D* before and they always sent a return slip if they wanted it back. This time I got a brand new unopened unit without a return slip and when I spoke to the rep they didn't say anything about returning the old one so they aren't getting it.
I think I will combine the HDD once I do get a round to swapping them out, maybe around football season...


----------



## vonzoog

rogue5,

Keep checking your monthly statement. Don't be surprise if a little $1k charge appears one day. If they never bill you for the replacement, then it looks like you have a second "free" unit.


----------



## MikeCC

rogue5 said:


> ... I already had the new one from D* in hand (it started to slowly die in mid Jan). I have yet to install and activate the new one, I have too much crap on the old one. I don't plan on sending the old one back because they didn't ask for it back. I paid for the Tivo insurance (7.99 a month) so I feel I don't owe them squat. I have gotten swapped out recievers from D* before and they always sent a return slip if they wanted it back. This time I got a brand new unopened unit without a return slip and when I spoke to the rep they didn't say anything about returning the old one so they aren't getting it.
> I think I will combine the HDD once I do get a round to swapping them out, maybe around football season...


Yeah, those bastards.

Greedy corporate 'ho's.

They brazenly fulfilled their part of the protection plan contract (several times, according to your "I have gotten swapped out receivers from D* before..." comment) so if they expect you to ship back that malfunctioning unit, and deprive you of a second HR10-250, that is the ultimate in corporate greed. 

Of course, if they fulfilled their part of the protection contract, I suspect that you should, too.

Give 'em a call for a shipping label, and send the original back.


----------



## Robert Spalding

rogue5 said:


> Well, my HDMI port went **** up just after the Superbowl but I already had the new one from D* in hand (it started to slowly die in mid Jan). I have yet to install and activate the new one, I have too much crap on the old one. I don't plan on sending the old one back because they didn't ask for it back. I paid for the Tivo insurance (7.99 a month) so I feel I don't owe them squat. I have gotten swapped out recievers from D* before and they always sent a return slip if they wanted it back. This time I got a brand new unopened unit without a return slip and when I spoke to the rep they didn't say anything about returning the old one so they aren't getting it.
> I think I will combine the HDD once I do get a round to swapping them out, maybe around football season...


I love this guys response. Yeah Dude you'll be getting a 1k bill very soon.


----------



## rogue5

Ok just to make this clear, the other times I had to return a reciever I didn't have an insurance plan and I had to pay a reduced price for a "refurbished" reciever. Also like I posted previously I got a packing slip and I was told to return the old reciever (neither of those were HD recievers). I also didn't get my HD Tivo from D* to begin with, they weren't even selling them when I got mine so why in blazes would I give it to them? If this was a car covered by insurance would the ins company ask for my totaled car??


----------



## bahopkins

rogue5 said:


> If this was a car covered by insurance would the ins company ask for my totaled car??


Yes, as a matter of fact they would (and do). The whole purpose of insurance is to make you whole...not better than whole. If you total your car, the insurance company will keep it, pay you the value of the car, and then most likely sell the totaled car to recoup a bit of their payment to you.


----------



## MikeCC

rogue5 said:


> ... If this was a car covered by insurance would the ins company ask for my totaled car??


Of course they would. I worked in claims for an insurance company for over a decade, and when an insurance company gives you cash for the value of your totalled car, you then sign over title to the wreckage. The insurance company then in turn sells the salvage, usually to an auto auction yard.

Bahopkins is correct in noting the purpose of insurance is to make you whole: that is, return you to the condition you were in before the loss.

In this case, the protection plan gives you a working unit, and you in turn send them the old one. D* will likely refurbish this unit and have it available to send to me when my HR10-250 goes out.

Think about it another way. D* also needs to make sure that subscribers aren't making fraudulent claims of failure, in the hopes of getting multiple HD TiVos.

Trust us on this, when we advise you to expect a $1000 charge on your DirecTV bill if you don't make arrangements to return your old HR10250.


----------



## Beckzilla

rogue5 said:


> If this was a car covered by insurance would the ins company ask for my totaled car??


 Which part of " yes they will keep your totaled car" is confusing you? DUH!


----------



## sotapoppy

MikeCC said:


> In this case, the protection plan gives you a working unit, and you in turn send them the old one. D* will likely refurbish this unit and have it available to send to me when my HR10-250 goes out.


LOL

Maybe we can avoid the frustration of dealing with D* and start sending our HR10-250's to each other.


----------



## rogue5

Well, 

They already verified that the unit was broken, they sent a rep to verifiy before they sent me a new one. The way I see it they aren't "refubishing" any of these units cause technically they aren't theirs, they are Tivo units, plus the fact that they don't even admit to the problem makes me wonder why they would want it back? I'll keep ya'll posted if I am wrong and they ask for it back but I doubt I will see it, hell they are probably more worried about the changeover in the summer anyway. Vee shall see, and quit hatin if I do get away with it haha. I doubt any of you guys would give your unit back if you weren't forced to after having spent so much and not sure if your not going to have the same problem with the new unit.


----------



## turls

100% wrong. They are technically DirecTV units with TiVo service built in.



rogue5 said:


> The way I see it they aren't "refubishing" any of these units cause technically they aren't theirs, they are Tivo units


----------



## herdfan

rogue5 said:


> Well,
> 
> They already verified that the unit was broken, they sent a rep to verifiy before they sent me a new one.


Your kidding right????


----------



## starbucksfreak

rogue5 said:


> Well,
> 
> They already verified that the unit was broken, they sent a rep to verifiy before they sent me a new one. The way I see it they aren't "refubishing" any of these units cause technically they aren't theirs, they are Tivo units, plus the fact that they don't even admit to the problem makes me wonder why they would want it back? I'll keep ya'll posted if I am wrong and they ask for it back but I doubt I will see it, hell they are probably more worried about the changeover in the summer anyway. Vee shall see, and quit hatin if I do get away with it haha. I doubt any of you guys would give your unit back if you weren't forced to after having spent so much and not sure if your not going to have the same problem with the new unit.


Sorry to end your party, but you will be billed for $1,000 at some point once DirecTV is unable to link a return tracking number to you. In fact, not having been given a return shipping label is worse for you. DirecTV uses a third-party company to handle the shipment and tracking of equipment. (That's why if you call the DirecTV CSRs to ask when you will receive your replacement unit, they cannot honestly tell; A horrible system, but that's the way it works.)

You may get a call from DirecTV Customer Care. That's not DirecTV--That's the company that knows whether or not you received the replacement unit and whether or not you sent one back. If they call you, demand that you be sent a return shipping label immediately. Right now you are . . .well, you're frankly just screwed. On the bright side, you will have a second unit--at the somewhat inflated price of $1K.


----------



## rogue5

So I am just curious, why so much up roar over this? I mean really are you guys just trying to save me so kind of grand situation or is is something more? I would believe the first due to the great people I have met on these boards and the help I have gotten on various issues but the last few post just seem malicous or even dare I say it bitter for some reason. Just seems odd that on this board where everyone is complaining about how crappy the the whole defective hardware issue is being handled by all parties involved I wasn't expecting this kind of response. Oh well maybe it is just the ill feeling perpetuated from this whole issue not being resolved properly with a design fix instead of musical units and playing russian HDMI port. To each his/her own. If/when they bill me I will send my old unit back, but I will wait til they ask for it,

N.A.V.Y


----------



## Robert Spalding

rogue5 said:


> So I am just curious, why so much up roar over this? I mean really are you guys just trying to save me so kind of grand situation or is is something more? I would believe the first due to the great people I have met on these boards and the help I have gotten on various issues but the last few post just seem malicous or even dare I say it bitter for some reason. Just seems odd that on this board where everyone is complaining about how crappy the the whole defective hardware issue is being handled by all parties involved I wasn't expecting this kind of response. Oh well maybe it is just the ill feeling perpetuated from this whole issue not being resolved properly with a design fix instead of musical units and playing russian HDMI port. To each his/her own. If/when they bill me I will send my old unit back, but I will wait til they ask for it,
> 
> N.A.V.Y


Because of few of us have gotten a bill for 1k for not sending it back in a timely manner. Just trying to help, but you arrogance doesn't lend itself much to us being nice in the future. Good luck!


----------



## zeddtivo

OK OK I give up!! After several trips to BB and what I thought was the final solution  ordering a unit from Value Electronics I am giving up on the HR10-250. I was very disappointed (after hearing good things on this thread) to receive a unit from VE that was made in Mexico, November build date, obviously used (scratches in front and discoloration on top from some companys ID tag) that had the purple tint out of the box. I am sending it back and demanding my money back. Does anyone have a suggestion for a unit to hold me over for six months till this is finally really fixed? I cant live without HD after spending $7K on a Sharp HD LCD and $6K on the new Denon 5805 that switches HDMI. The super bowl was too fun to watch in HD.


----------



## psyclonejack

I am on my *3rd* HR10-250, same issue every time: purple/pink tint when switching the TV on or between 720/1080. I too am beyond pissed. I think I am going to return it and the TV and go back to what I had before.......regular TV. Its unbeleivable that they can not get this to work.......


----------



## bebe lapin

I just had my second HDMI failure on a HR10-250. Same as the last one. Lots of polarization then poof ... no signal. D-TV was nice enought to send me a replacement the first time (Nov. 04) with no problems. 
My second unit, manufactured 11/7/04 had probs from the begining. Coax cable input 1 never wanted to make a connection. Something must have been in the connector or somethin'. Got that figgered out and the box worked better than the first. No sound sync problems like i was havng with the first box. And after testing it, showed the HDMI connection was better than the componet video for sure.
Friday night the HDMI went out. I unhooked my DVD player so i could hook up via componet video to my Samsung DLP . Reset the D-Tivo and got a lot of static noise and no picture . A call to D-TV got me passed between techs then cut off. This happened 3 times. After having a spirted (hahha) conversation with the floor manger at the "Call In"( they are not alllowed to call back if you get cut off) Tech Center. They are sending out a service tech to see what the problem is . Some sort of stalling tatic on there part. They would not even acknowledge the prob. I got the box working via S-Video for now . Picture looks like dirt at 480, but what can ya do ?
My 1 year warrenty will be up in Sept 05. I am fearing the date. 
Will they fix this problem by then?
If so will they send me a updated box?
Will I be part of a class action suit?
So many questions, no "Direct" answers.


----------



## GW350

I swapped out #2 for #3 at Best Buy the other night, the HDMI was still working on #2 but it had a terrible remote problem. #3 so far is good, made in Mexico but no date so I guess that means recently manufactured... HDMI looks good, remote works like it should, hopefully this will be the last one...

GW


----------



## bertschb

I hope this box works for you too but I'm guessing it will fail by March 15th.


----------



## abracadabra

Go figure. I've been using the HDMI port now for 2+ month's with no problems. I've been waiting for the day when the s*** hits the fan. This weekend I noticed I haven't had a successful dial in for 21 days. I called tech support and got transferred to level 2. They think the internal modem went bad and are now sending me a new unit. Here I thought the HDMI issue would do me in. Oh well, hopefully I get a newer build date and thus avoid the whole HDMI issue altogether


----------



## abbas

Humax will be making the new Directv HDTV receivers when they goto MPEG4. I wonder if they will have DVR version too.

Here is the clip
"Humax to Supply DirecTV MPEG-4 HDTV Set-top Box
As reported earlier, So. Koreas Humax will ship an MPEG-4 set-top box in the latter part of this year, as silicon becomes available.

The third STB model to be launched by Humax for the top U.S. satellite company will decode both standard-definition MPEG-2 and high-definition MPEG-4 signals. DirecTV plans to begin transmitting local broadcast channels in MPEG-4 in 12 major markets later in the year. "

abbas


----------



## sabadon

I have not posted to this thread since Nov. 2004. Have tried 2 units with both having HDMI DOA. Decided not to try and get a 3rd replacement unless, and until, the problems are fixed.

Since then I have read all the posts on this thread and seriously wonder if D* will ever do anything to fix the HR10-250. Where is their incentive?

If they are dumping TIVO and not planning a replacement HD PVR, I have to believe we (current HR10-250 owners) are out of luck. How else do you explain the half a** way they have handled the problem and failed to really address the issue.

I sent an email twice to customer service saying in effect why don't you do the right thing and address this problem honestly. They never acknowledged receiving the email much less respond.

It seems to me that those of us having the problem with the HR10-250 are too small a part of their business to worry about. If the HR10-250 is in fact a dead end product, what financial incentive does D* have to take care of us?

Hope I am wrong but D* has done nothing to date that indicates to me they will come up with a real fix. How hard can it be for them to fix a couple of hardware problems?


----------



## mintakaX

I am honestly starting to think that there will never be a fix to the faulty HDMI issue or for that matter to any of the other chronic problems that seem to be associated with the HR10-250. So basically is it time to start accepting the fact that we got ripped off ? I mean mine still works with component, so I guess that its not exactly a total ripoff. There really is not much that can be done about it is there ? Or, is this kind of thinking premature ?


----------



## mfleming

mintakaX said:


> I am honestly starting to think that there will never be a fix to the faulty HDMI issue or for that matter to any of the other chronic problems that seem to be associated with the HR10-250. So basically is it time to start accepting the fact that we got ripped off ? I mean mine still works with component, so I guess that its not exactly a total ripoff. There really is not much that can be done about it is there ? Or, is this kind of thinking premature ?


Yes, definitely ripped off. They've had, what, 8 months or so to get this right? They either don't care or are completely incompetent. I gave up after my first problem after reading all the problems n this thread.

I'm just waiting for some other manufacturer to come out with another model. I'm surprised no one has yet.


----------



## AbMagFab

What chronic problems? There is a hardware HDMI problem, possibly a software HDMI problem, possibly a TV HDMI issue (e.g. JVC), with maybe 20% of the units (which is unacceptably high, but not 100%).

Most of us are thrilled and happy with our HR10-250, and hardly feel ripped off. What other chronic problems are you referring to?


----------



## mintakaX

AbMagFab said:


> What chronic problems? There is a hardware HDMI problem, possibly a software HDMI problem, possibly a TV HDMI issue (e.g. JVC), with maybe 20% of the units (which is unacceptably high, but not 100%).
> 
> Most of us are thrilled and happy with our HR10-250, and hardly feel ripped off. What other chronic problems are you referring to?


You're kidding right ? In case you're not kidding, how are you coming up with "most of us" ?. Is the bad hdmi only present on 20% of the units ??? That is very hard to believe given that so many people are on their 3 or fourth units and still having problems. If it were only 20% I'd take the chance of sending mine back for a replacement. What about the stuttering video problems ?

It seems to me that the HR10-250 overall has a pretty high failure rate. Am I happy with mine ? Not really, I think a $1000 unit should work or at least one should be able to get a working unit without too much trouble. Are you using hdmi ? If so, I hope yours doesnt fail, but I think the odds are against it.


----------



## zeddtivo

I could use some help deciding whether to keep my 4th 10-250. I have had it two days and once the remote wouldn't work until I was very close (1 inch) to the sensor then if worked OK. The other issue is I got a green shaded screen twice when not touching the cables but swithing the source through my Denon 5805 which switches HDMI. I am not sure if the remote problem is anything other than a rare minor nusiance. I am also (and much more concerned) not sure if the green shading is an indicator of future failure. The picture came back after running through the resolutions. Is it just a switching problem or the 10-250? My prior units had purple screens. This week will be my only chance to get my money back. From then on I will be swapping units for the foreseeable future. Any advice?? Made in Mexico with no date.


----------



## AbMagFab

On the poll above, 30% said they have problems. A poll like this is going to be extremely skewed towards the folks with problems. 20% is generous, it's more likely 5-10% at most (which is still unacceptably high for a consumer electronics device).

Most of the repeat problem folks likely have some other issue - like a TV incompatibility, or power issues, or they keep hacking and screwing it up, etc.

And 80%+ is most of us who are happy, yes.


----------



## mintakaX

AbMagFab said:


> On the poll above, 30% said they have problems. A poll like this is going to be extremely skewed towards the folks with problems. 20% is generous, it's more likely 5-10% at most (which is still unacceptably high for a consumer electronics device).
> 
> Most of the repeat problem folks likely have some other issue - like a TV incompatibility, or power issues, or they keep hacking and screwing it up, etc.
> 
> And 80%+ is most of us who are happy, yes.


Sorry, I dont buy it. The hdmi on my unit failed and it was purely mechanical, at the source. It had nothing whatsoever to do with anything downstream. I take it that you are not using the hdmi output ? As for the poll, how many people answered that they didnt have problems and later had a problem ? I was one of those people.


----------



## AbMagFab

Yup, I'm using HDMI, as are apparently around 75% of people with an HD Tivo.

It's kind of ego-centric to assume, that since you had a problem, "most people" must also have had the problem, even though the poll in this thread says exactly the opposite. And to say there are additional chronic problems, when there aren't, kind of takes away some credibility.

But each to his own. Excuse me while I go and watch and enjoy beautiful time-shifted HD via HDMI.


----------



## bertschb

How long has the HDMI output been working on your unit?


----------



## Beckzilla

AbMagFab said:


> What chronic problems? There is a hardware HDMI problem, possibly a software HDMI problem, possibly a TV HDMI issue (e.g. JVC), with maybe 20% of the units (which is unacceptably high, but not 100%).
> 
> Most of us are thrilled and happy with our HR10-250, and hardly feel ripped off. What other chronic problems are you referring to?


 Please tell me what the color of the sky is on your planet. To make an arrogant statement like that is beyond belief. I just received my 7th unit in the last 6 weeks and ALL are because of HDMI output going out and also bad hard drives. Also have seen stuttering problems on all of them and for a unit that costs this much a slow processor as this one has is inexcusable as the guide loads ridiculously slow and the channels change slow. Also all the OTA problems that this unit has is totally problematic as all of mine will not pick up 6 of my local HD channels but my Sony Wega picks them all up with no problem hooked to the same antenna input. If these arent chronic then you should go to Websters and look up the definition. (Oh, did I just say that all out loud?)


----------



## starbucksfreak

There are probably some people who are happy with their HR10-250s , because they are using it with a television that does not have some type of a compatibility issue with the HDMI. Apparently there are HD TVs where this box actually performs as it should. But there are several models, including mine, that present some type of HDMI compatibility problem when connected to the HR10-250. This often manifests itself with the false overheat protection freeze-up, which means failure of normal data transmission via HDMI. This is the issue that the company is apparently hoping to address via a software patch. And, it is not a hardware issue. I have no idea what TV brands are actually problem-free with the unit, but there are several major ones that evidently are guaranteed to have an eventual failure when mated to the HR10-250 via the HDMI.


----------



## mintakaX

starbucksfreak said:


> There are probably some people who are happy with their HR10-250s , because they are using it with a television that does not have some type of a compatibility issue with the HDMI. Apparently there are HD TVs where this box actually performs as it should. But there are several models, including mine, that present some type of HDMI compatibility problem when connected to the HR10-250. This often manifests itself with the false overheat protection freeze-up, which means failure of normal data transmission via HDMI. This is the issue that the company is apparently hoping to address via a software patch. And, it is not a hardware issue. I have no idea what TV brands are actually problem-free with the unit, but there are several major ones that evidently are guaranteed to have an eventual failure when mated to the HR10-250 via the HDMI.


Again, I'm having a hard time accepting that the hdmi problems that are so often mentioned are the result of an icompatibility. When mine started to fail, I could jiggle the connection a bit and the problem would clear up. Eventually it completely failed. Could this really be caused by an incompatibilty ? I had it hooked up to a DVDO ISCAN HD+.


----------



## mintakaX

AbMagFab said:


> Yup, I'm using HDMI, as are apparently around 75% of people with an HD Tivo.
> 
> It's kind of ego-centric to assume, that since you had a problem, "most people" must also have had the problem, even though the poll in this thread says exactly the opposite. And to say there are additional chronic problems, when there aren't, kind of takes away some credibility.
> 
> But each to his own. Excuse me while I go and watch and enjoy beautiful time-shifted HD via HDMI.


Wow, I didnt realize that you were taking this discussion so personally, even to the point of a personality judgement ("ego-centric"). This is just a video machine machine we are talking about isnt it ? I thought that we were just having a discussion, I didnt intend to make you feel so defensive about your tivo. Sounds like you really like it ! I'm happy for you .


----------



## Beckzilla

mintakaX said:


> Again, I'm having a hard time accepting that the hdmi problems that are so often mentioned are the result of an icompatibility. When mine started to fail, I could jiggle the connection a bit and the problem would clear up. Eventually it completely failed. Could this really be caused by an incompatibilty ? I had it hooked up to a DVDO ISCAN HD+.


 I agree 100%. My first 5 units were dead with the HDMI input right out of the box. When the next one went bad I took the cover off and could lightly move the HDMI card back and forth and make the picture go from bad to not bad. This is not a compatibility issue as I have a unit now that the HDMI is working perfectly (with fingers crossed). All with the same TV. I feel that the incompatibility issues are very minimal and with just a few sets, not many.


----------



## AbMagFab

bertschb said:


> How long has the HDMI output been working on your unit?


Pushing a year (I got the first batch, so that was April or May I think?).

In spite of the evidence to the contrary, it seems people want to believe that everyone is having problems. Fine, not gonna change your mind.

However, I would think that if I had repeated problems (like some posting here they have 5+ "out of the box" bad cards), maybe it's something I'm doing, or some TV incompatibility, or a power issue. Just getting another box isn't going to fix it.

Most people have no problems with their HR10-250. The evidence is very clear. Those that do have problems seem to have repeated problems. I would love to see the data from DirecTV since they seem to be doing nothing about trying to solve whatever the minority issue is.


----------



## bertschb

You are the only person I know of (who has posted here) that has had the HDMI output working for more than a couple months. It's possible that 99% of the HDMI outputs are working fine. But, it's sure weird that 99% of the folks who frequent these forums say they are on unit XX and HDMI never works (unless they jiggle the connector). 

I love my HDTivo. My picture isn't any better with HDMI so it's not a huge loss. But, I really need that extra HD connection on my TV so it's a hassle. If there was another HDTivo-like box available with working HDMI I'd buy it in 2 seconds. DirecTv doesn't fix the problem because there isn't any competition (please don't mention the 921 here).


----------



## Larry Chanin

bertschb said:


> You are the only person I know of (who has posted here) that has had the HDMI output working for more than a couple months. It's possible that 99% of the HDMI outputs are working fine. But, it's sure weird that 99% of the folks who frequent these forums say they are on unit XX and HDMI never works (unless they jiggle the connector).


Hi Bert,

While I don't really expect you to reread each and every posting on this thread, the fact is there are others, such as myself, who indeed have reported no problems with their HDMI connection. However, on a thread specifically established to document HDMI problems, you shouldn't be astonished that there aren't many folks telling you that their HDMI connection is working.

To me arguing with other HD TiVo enthusiasts that 99 to 100% of the HDMI connections are faulty is a waste of energy. To me a failure rate of 10% for all failure modes is excessive.

Regardless of whether this poll can be considered "scientific", it is clear that it documents a serious problem. However, investigation of other threads will demonstrate that there are other quality control problems that are equally troublesome, i.e., hard drive failures and stuttering.

I think most of us attracted to this thread can agree on one thing, that is DIRECTV does not seem to be motivated to promptly correct problems on this device.

By the way, here's my previous comment:



> Quote:
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Originally posted by robnalex
> With respect, I really don't understand the "all or nothing" philosophy. Sure, it would be nice if so many of these units did not have the HDMI trouble, but what's the big deal? My HDMI was bad and D* exchanged it for one that works. If this one goes bad I can exchange it again or just wait, since I seem to get slightly better PQ with component anyway. Why would I want to give up the fabulous ability to record HD over a minor inconvenience?
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> Many of us are early adopters and are used to a degree of early bugs. However, your comments seem to assume that the problems with the HD TiVo are confined strictly to the HDMI problem. From what I can tell from my own experience and from reading the experiences of the on-line TiVo community, is that the Hughes devices suffer from fundamental hardware quality issues throughout.
> 
> I had my first TiVo, an HD TiVo, for two days. I was greatly impressed with the picture quality on the HDMI/DVI connection. I was quickly becoming addicted to the "TiVo Experience", then after two days it died. No, not just the HDMI connection, everything. It won't boot up, and I'm not alone.
> 
> In stark contrast to the Hughes TiVo, as an early adopter, I purchased RCA's first HD satellite/OTA receiver. This receiver had it's expected early bugs, but they were all firmware related. In addition RCA was responsive in listening to the on-line community and not only quickly corrected the problems with automatic download updates, but incorporated some very helpful useability improvements as well.
> 
> The early consumer voting is coming in on this and other on-line forums and by all accounts Hughes doesn't seem to be coming anywhere near RCA in aggressively addressing very serious overall quality problems with their device.
> 
> Larry


As a follow on to my comments above, my replacement HD TiVo performed flawlessly for six months. Then it too failed. No not the HDMI connection, the hard drive again.

I am now on my third replacement. After three months it is working flawlessly. Having made this announcement I no doubt have jinxed myself and I expect in a couple of weeks I'll be reporting yet an other failure. 

Larry


----------



## starbucksfreak

Beckzilla said:


> I agree 100%. My first 5 units were dead with the HDMI input right out of the box. When the next one went bad I took the cover off and could lightly move the HDMI card back and forth and make the picture go from bad to not bad. This is not a compatibility issue as I have a unit now that the HDMI is working perfectly (with fingers crossed). All with the same TV. I feel that the incompatibility issues are very minimal and with just a few sets, not many.


What I have heard is that there were multiple HDMI issues. One was hardware-related, the earlier problems that supposedly were corrected with an HDMI hardware fix. The HDMI failure that generates the false overheat shutdown is the one that is apparently going to be solved (when???) with a software fix, once a patch is developed that will correct the various compatibility anomalies with different equipment. I find that amazing, myself, but I remain hopeful.


----------



## G4Mac

With out a doubt it is a noticeable difference


----------



## tomtomato

When using my 10-250 through HDMI (via a HDMI-DVI cable to Panasonic plasma), I occasionally get the "posterized/solarized" picture when changing from 480p to 1080i. This happens maybe 5% of the time I switch to 1080i. Everytime, if I simply cycle through 480p back to 1080i, the problem clears up. It has been this way for about a month.

Here's my dilemma. I recently purchased a Panasonic S97 upconverting DVD player (awesome results btw!). That player is now using my plasma's DVI terminal, and my 10-250 is back on component. I am evaluating whether it is worth buying an extra DVI terminal board for the plasma, so I can connect my 10-250 again through HDMI (for me, the 10-250 looks a bit better on HDMI than component). 

However - if the symptoms I described above are indicative of an imminent failure in my 10-250's HDMI port, I'll stick with component. Any advice?


----------



## kimsan

tomtomato said:


> When using my 10-250 through HDMI (via a HDMI-DVI cable to Panasonic plasma), I occasionally get the "posterized/solarized" picture when changing from 480p to 1080i. This happens maybe 5% of the time I switch to 1080i. Everytime, if I simply cycle through 480p back to 1080i, the problem clears up. It has been this way for about a month.
> 
> Here's my dilemma. I recently purchased a Panasonic S97 upconverting DVD player (awesome results btw!). That player is now using my plasma's DVI terminal, and my 10-250 is back on component. I am evaluating whether it is worth buying an extra DVI terminal board for the plasma, so I can connect my 10-250 again through HDMI (for me, the 10-250 looks a bit better on HDMI than component).
> 
> However - if the symptoms I described above are indicative of an imminent failure in my 10-250's HDMI port, I'll stick with component. Any advice?


Check your "born on" date for something this year. It sounds as if the hardware prob has been fixed in jan (no date) models and later.

I've got a solid dead "posterized" HDMI right now (Nov 9 04) that will only change with physical manipulation of the HDMI card. I *have* seen a "posterized" component out once while changing output resolution. A second cycle cleaned it up.

My best guess is that the res conversion circuits can get confused and a cycle through clears it. Likely a hardware glitch, but not a hard failure.


----------



## vonzoog

TomTomto,

I have the same set up as you. I finally got tired of rebooting to have the HDMI working. When it fianally failed (second unit) I just hooked up my TV with component. It has been flauless hooked up this way. Leaving the HDTiVo hooked to the TV by component and the DVD thru HDMI has worked out to be a happy solution. 

Paying the high price for a HDMI switcher and having to put up with all of the 250's connection problems with the HDMI just did not make sense to me. Also, with the new mpeg4 coming in the future at D*, I figure I will just wait.

By the way, the Panny S97 is unbelievable thru HDMI with a DLP TV. :up:


----------



## shaown

Hi all,
Well, after a long time with my unit (whats its been for me 5-6 months?) My HDMI/DVI Ouput went pink. Best part, I predicted the failure to the second 
How you ask? Well I had seen reports of failures when plugging / unplugging moving the unit, and I realized that mine had not been physcially touched the whole time since I set it up. Last weekend I moved to a new apt. I was so careful, unscrewed the DVI end of the cable from the TV, didn't touch the HDMI side. Carried the unit in my hands the whole way. Plugged it in at my new apt, bam, pink discoloration. So .. are replacements actually working? Should I call D* now? or wait a couple more weeks, I'm running on component meanwhile, but my DVD player is offline (or my XBOX) till I can switch this thing back to DVI..
Thx,
-Shaowb


----------



## dvoge

Purchased my HD DVR 250 last August from CC. Worked great until last week. Directv is now at least admitting there is a problem but would not switch out the box(still under warranty and I have the $7.99 monthly insurance) because the problem is with the HDMI connection in the back. Therefore all boxes have this issue. In their words"only a matter of time until it happens again." Their engineers are working on a fix but no timetable. I am not holding my breath.

This begs the question, how can they knowingly sell a defective product for such an exorbitant price and not have any repercussions. I generally do not advocate law suits but this seems like a slam dunk class action.

FYI I whined enough that they gave me a $250 credit but that is not sufficient compensation for a $1000 box. I certainly hope they will switch us out whenever the new generation box comes out.


----------



## spangbr

just went through this same problem and its very annoying. had 2 defective units with defective hdmi. got my 3rd one and it works fine on the hd channels and about half of the non-hd channels. for the other channels it had black and white flicks on the top few pixels of the screen. grrrrrr. oh and one of my first two units also had a defective s-video. i must say im very disappointed in direct tv and tivo with this low quality of a product especially at the price of these things.


----------



## tjburrows

I wonder if they are going to keep stalling until they have their replacement units in a year or two, and they figure it is not worth the expense to correct the problem on these units.


----------



## cocoon

got a replacement HD Tivo yesterday. This one doesn't say when it was manufactured but it was made in mexico. HDMI worked out of the box came the 3.1.5E software. I remember others worked for a few days then HDMI quit though. I had a hell of time getting it replaced. I eventually got it replaced because the hard drive was failing and then they gave me a hard time...

one last thing like people mentioned in other threads they did not send a return call tag. I have called them twice this time they said to wait 2 weeks if it doesn't arive then call them again...


----------



## cocoon

tjburrows said:


> I wonder if they are going to keep stalling until they have their replacement units in a year or two, and they figure it is not worth the expense to correct the problem on these units.


I really don't think they have any intention of fixing these units since they plan to switch to what they call "home media centers" late this year / early next. I mean they still haven't fixed the random black & white issue with the series 2 standard definition directivos.


----------



## jwwahly

hooked mine up today 50 inch hitatchi plasma hdmi to dvi no picture not sure where it was assembeled


----------



## gboneill

This won't solve your loss of the DVI input... but it can maybe give you an extra component input say for the XBox.... My Optoma RD50's have BNC component inputs available. I didn't have any devices that use BNC inputs... but I got the idea that Radio Shack might have a converter from BNC to regular Component Video inputs... Yes they did!


----------



## pbolya

cocoon said:


> got a replacement HD Tivo yesterday. This one doesn't say when it was manufactured but it was made in mexico. HDMI worked out of the box came the 3.1.5E software. I remember others worked for a few days then HDMI quit though. I had a hell of time getting it replaced. I eventually got it replaced because the hard drive was failing and then they gave me a hard time...
> 
> one last thing like people mentioned in other threads they did not send a return call tag. I have called them twice this time they said to wait 2 weeks if it doesn't arive then call them again...


cocoon,
Be careful. I did not receive a tag either. I called them about it but did not worry to much. It's there fault I said. I just return it whenever they send me a tag. One month later the tag still has not arrived but they charged $1,000 to my credit card !!! After another set of phone calls they promissed they will refund me when they have my defective unit. 2 weeks later I got the tag and sent the unit back. Once I received delivery confirmation I called them up again and they promissed me that they will put the $1,000 back to my credit card but instead they gave me a $1,000 credit on my account. So basically they gave me a defective unit and in return they made me pay my monthly invoice for more than a year advance. Not a particulary attractive deal. I wish they would have let Sony manifacture some of these HD units. My 2 other Sony TiVo's never had any problems (4 years and 2 years old).

Make sure they send you the tag and you return your unit within 30 days.

Regards,
Peter


----------



## CJLinst

Just purchased an HR10-250, Assy in Mexico, dated 27-Oct-04. (Circuit City - 28 return days left).

I'm using supplied HDMI-DVI cable to a Samsung HLN437W. What I get is about two seconds of picture, then a second of black. The best way to describe it is it looks like it's "losing sync."

If I change the output mode, I get a "solarized" picture.

3.1.5d and 3.1.5e (it updated when I forced a call yesterday) exhibit the same behavior.

Works fine using component.

I have no trouble with two upconverting DVD players. The Dish 921 this unit replaced (tired of waiting for O&O HD from Charlie, dontcha know) also never glitched using DVI.


----------



## georgemoe

Just hooked my 1 month old HR10-250 to a Tosh 34HFX84 via HDMI. No problem so far. Hopefully another 2 weeks and I can vote. Positive I hope. Build on this unit was 26-Nov-04.


----------



## cocoon

pbolya said:


> cocoon,
> Be careful. I did not receive a tag either. I called them about it but did not worry to much. It's there fault I said. I just return it whenever they send me a tag. One month later the tag still has not arrived but they charged $1,000 to my credit card !!!
> Make sure they send you the tag and you return your unit within 30 days.
> 
> Regards,
> Peter


Thanks for the warning. If they dont send me a return tag by end of the week I think I just will bite the bullet and send it back to them. Hopefully they would credit the account like one of the CSRs said. If not its the whole threaten to cancel deal all over again.


----------



## bebe lapin

As a follow up to my posting on 2 /26. 
The service tech came to my home looked at the box said yes it was bad. He has seen the HDMI connectors go bad right in front of his eyes.
A call to Direct TV was made and they are going to send me a new unit via Fed Ex. Well this was almost 2 weeks ago. When I spoke to the customer service rep on the phone she said her computer would not accept the order but "she wrote it down" and as soon as her problem with the computer was fixed she would place the order. 
As i see it, this is just another stall by D-TV.
I am going to call tomorrow. 
My next step is to contact The local TV stations in my area ( the consumer help division). They love to find problems and put them on the 5-oclock news.
Hopefully the possibility of bad publicity in a very competitive market will push someone at D-TV
to give me an answer.
If this doesnt work i guess the next step is to find a lawyer who would like to make some money .
I suggest anyone who calls D-TV to document the call. Get the Reps ID number along with their first name, time you called and what was said. If you record the call you must tell them so for legal reasons.
Ill keep posting until i get a solution.


----------



## videoholic

AbMagFab said:


> On the poll above, 30% said they have problems. A poll like this is going to be extremely skewed towards the folks with problems. 20% is generous, it's more likely 5-10% at most (which is still unacceptably high for a consumer electronics device).
> 
> Most of the repeat problem folks likely have some other issue - like a TV incompatibility, or power issues, or they keep hacking and screwing it up, etc.
> 
> And 80%+ is most of us who are happy, yes.


This poll is incredibly whacked, because I'm sure there are quite a few people like me who have had problems since I inputted in the poll.

I am now on my 3rd box and it is broken. Been broken since September. Not really interested in getting a new one until they fix the problem.


----------



## Pangloss

Called D* this morning about this, and they asked me to upgrade to the F software by making a daily call.


----------



## Pangloss

Update: My HDMI port started working again after another reset (still no F download), but it's flakey as heck, producing white, snowy flashes on the screen. After playing around with the cable a bit more, I noticed that the port is really loose inside the box. It holds the cable firmly around the collar right at the opening, but inside it's totally loose. I think what's happening is that it's making a good connection with the cable, but the card itself is loose inside the box. 

I called D* back, and they're sending a replacement unit.


----------



## leesweet

Pangloss, how old is/was your broken unit? The three of mine that I've looked into had the card so screwed down it would take a hammer to loosen it my itself. Some folks have said that the mounting changed since the beginning somewhere, but the ones I've seen had three screws to the back cabinet wall, and the clip to secure it in the motherboard jack if all else fails.

(I still don't have 'f' on either of mine; I suspect that all the CSRs don't have the current info on when it's 'totally rolled out' to everyone.)


----------



## Pangloss

I just got it less than a week ago, on Thursday the 10th.


----------



## CharlieS

Falstaffpac

Thanks for the tip. Placed the spacer between the card and pin after the weakness upgrade and the HDMI works. It is a noticable better picture with the sony LCD rear projection TV. Don't know if it worked before the upgrade because I got a HDMI TV after the upgrade. I was using an older generation HDTV that only had component inputs.


----------



## MrCoolDu4

I got my HD DirecTivo in July of 04 and after 3 unsuccessful attempts to return if for a replacement due to a bad HDMI output, (each one they sent me had the same problem right out of the box) I finally gave up in October. I was hoping they had fixed this problem by now and I'd try again, but it looks like the same old story here. If the warrantee is for a year and they still don't have the problem fixed, what do we do then? What a mess.


----------



## muoldaar

Back in September, I reported that my HDMI output died just a few days after receiving the 3.1.5d update. So I was hopeful that my HDMI failure was software-related and that next software update would resurrect my HDMI output. I finally got 3.1.5f today, but nope I don't have any good news to report. HDMI is still dead.


----------



## plenzmd1

Okay, I have had my unit since June of last year with no, and I mean, no issue. HDMI went bad last night. Called D* TV this morning and they are saying they can do nothing until I get the F version. Problem is I only have the TV hooked up via the HDMI/DVI, and it is completely built in to a custom cabinet, and it is a ***** for mr to get back there and hoook up another set of wires. Word to the wise for people like me with setups where the TV is hard to get to, set up with componat cables as well as DVI from the get go. 

Did a quick search on the F version, has anyone had this help? Have read some where we people are getting an overheated message, but mine has just gone all pink and solar.

Horray for that great D* customer service. And I spend 7.99 a month for this treatment!


----------



## ClaudioJ

Has anyone been able to hook up with HDMI, see picture and audio on regular channels but when It comes to viewing HD Channels you could see the picture but no audio. Does that mean that I have a bad box also?


----------



## starbucksfreak

ClaudioJ said:


> Has anyone been able to hook up with HDMI, see picture and audio on regular channels but when It comes to viewing HD Channels you could see the picture but no audio. Does that mean that I have a bad box also?


If you are connecting directly to a Sharp Aquos TV with the only audio output being your Sharp TV speakers, you will not get sound on HD or Dolby Digital broadcasts. You need to output your sound through a receiver or turn off the DD setting in the HR10-250. Beyond that, I do not know.


----------



## plenzmd1

quick update, new unit on the way. It did take two calls after the initial call to report the problem. 2nd tech said no replacements being shipped, this was a known defect. Then stated the "f" update would take of the issue, and as I was not able to download, could not send new one. Finally was told my protection plan with D* did not cover advanced receivers, only basic, and certainly not known defects. Also, she said I should contact the manufacturer directly. Thought that was interesting. When I made her wait as I pulled up the protection plan from the website and then informed that I was not an idiot and that I knew I was still under warranty, that D* was the manufacturer, and that the protection has no exclusions for "known defects" and could I please speak with someone knowledgeable" I was hung up on. 

Called back, next tech read notes briefly, said something to the effect of how could people think this was a software issue, and instantly proceeded to process the shipment of a new unit.


----------



## avNeophyte

Have posterization on HDMI interface. Waited for 'f' patch so I wouldn't be told to wait for it. Got it yesterday and it didn't do anything (of course). Called tonight and received a bunch of BS about the problem being my TV (Fujitsu P50). Told no replacements. Blah, blah, blah.

Pressed the issue until I got escalated to the right level. New unit on the way.

This is my second HD-Tivofailure. I'm really angry with D* about their handling of these failures.


----------



## Moral Kiosk

Long ago, six months back, HDMI busted on the 250. Called up, immediately got a replacement order.. They sent the new one, and I fedexed the old one back.. New one worked like a charm and has yet to break. 

But it gets better. In November, I got a bill on my CC for $1,000 bucks. Clearly, it was because the clowns at D* thought they didn't get the fedexed old box. I called and they immediately found that they had received the box. They said they would give me a credit. I was happy. 

But then I find that they didn't credit me the 1 large to my CC.. I called and *****ed, and they said they credited the 1 large to my ACCOUNT. Unbelievable. I said "you guys are clowns, give it back to my credit card." They said sure. I got happy again. 

Next month, no credit to my card. I call up again and call them clowns.. And after threatening to call the better business bureau and get the charge taken off my card via Schwab, they said they'd send the CC credit. 

I'm overall happy with D*, but it's stuff like this that makes me contemplate cable.


----------



## pbolya

Moral Kiosk said:


> Long ago, six months back, HDMI busted on the 250. Called up, immediately got a replacement order.. They sent the new one, and I fedexed the old one back.. New one worked like a charm and has yet to break.
> 
> But it gets better. In November, I got a bill on my CC for $1,000 bucks. Clearly, it was because the clowns at D* thought they didn't get the fedexed old box. I called and they immediately found that they had received the box. They said they would give me a credit. I was happy.
> 
> But then I find that they didn't credit me the 1 large to my CC.. I called and *****ed, and they said they credited the 1 large to my ACCOUNT. Unbelievable. I said "you guys are clowns, give it back to my credit card." They said sure. I got happy again.
> 
> Next month, no credit to my card. I call up again and call them clowns.. And after threatening to call the better business bureau and get the charge taken off my card via Schwab, they said they'd send the CC credit.
> 
> I'm overall happy with D*, but it's stuff like this that makes me contemplate cable.


They did the exact same thing to me too. The only difference I was late sending the replacement back because they never sent me a return label. I specifically ask them to return the money back to my credit card instead of my account and they promissed but instead put it on my account. So now I basicaly paid over a year of my subscription in advance! Did they ever credit your card ?


----------



## imurray

New member to HD Tivo - HDMI was DOA when I got the box. Waiting for a call back form the retailer about a replacement. Directv did not want to have anything to do with fixing the faulty equipment.

I am surprised at the number of people with problems on this, and the unwillingness of the manufacturer to help ?


----------



## guptasa1

Just got HD Tivo last week. HDMI port works perfectly so far, but it's only been a little less than a week. I'll update if the status changes.


----------



## Klankster

Hmmm. I went to watch a HD program this afternoon, and HDMI is totally dead. No picture (black) and no audio. Is this typical, or do you usually have audio and no picture?

I wound up watching the show on component output, but I'm worried that my HR10-250 is broken. I'm not amused.

I saw a note about a reset possibly bringing it back, will try this shortly.


----------



## bertschb

I just noticed a $1,000 charge for unreturned equipment on my bill. Luckily, I kept the FedEx receipt that shows they received my defective unit (#3) on Feb 11th. They said they'll credit my account in 3-5 days. I doubt it. I'll check back at the end of the week but I expect they will have screwed it up worse by then.


----------



## Moral Kiosk

pbolya said:


> They did the exact same thing to me too. The only difference I was late sending the replacement back because they never sent me a return label. I specifically ask them to return the money back to my credit card instead of my account and they promissed but instead put it on my account. So now I basicaly paid over a year of my subscription in advance! Did they ever credit your card ?


Yeah, they did. But the geniuses also started taking money out of the Directv credit before I got my money back to the CC.. Which meant that they billed me, like, $180 for two months after I got the 1k back.


----------



## mintakaX

It is baffling that D* can get away with selling a product that has so many chronic problems as well as treating their customers so inconsiderately. They used to be a good company.


----------



## Pangloss

Received my replacement HD Tivo today. As expected, they forgot to include the return packaging/address stuff. I called and they said it they would send it, and it'll be here in 2-5 days. But of course they'll be charging me $1000 for the replacement unit if they haven't received it within seven days from today. 

Morons.


----------



## brickcasa

I purchased my original unit at the end of January from BB. HDMI was dead out of the box. Returned it to BB for an exchange the same day. That unit worked fine until today, the HDMI died. 
I called D*, & after finally getting transferred to the "HD Support Department" I was told it was a software issue & I would just have to live with component output until a software update was release sometime in the future. He told me the software was causing overheating, & that was killing the HDMI. 
I asked to talk to a supervisor. After arguing with him for several minutes he finally agreed to send me a replacement unit, but he warned me that I would have the same problem with the new unit until this software update was released. 

Not a great experience. 
Not very happy.


----------



## leesweet

Don't expect the return label quickly if it's missing. I waited over a month and they 'shipped it' three times. I never got it. Then they charged me the $1000 *twice* on the D* account. Luckily I saw it and yelled loud enough to get it taken off before it hit my credit card.

Search this forum for 'Dock 6' and you'll find my post with the address and FedEx account number to use to return the old HR10-250 to. Be sure to put down that the value is $1000 or you'll be SOL if they lose it totally! (And, yeah, keep the FedEx airbill copy forever, since you'll never know when they might charge you for it!)


----------



## brickcasa

Thanks for the info & advice Lee. I'll keep my fingers crossed.


----------



## Mark Lopez

I've had my 2 HD Tivos for about 9 months now and never had a problem, including opening them up a few times to upgrade/replace drives. However while in the process of packing for our move this weekend, I moved one just a few inches and out went the HDMI. If I fuss with it I can get a green posterized picture on 1080i, but nothing on the other modes. Then I decided to check the other unit and I could only get a picture on 1080i on it. I unplugged and plugged the cable in on that one and all the modes came back (for now). I'll probably just use the component on the other one since I really don't see any difference in picture quality.


----------



## Bodie

Didn't have HDMI to test the first unit (replaced due to stuttering). Just got the 32" Aquos and when I first connected HDMI I got what looked like reversed colors. Turned the TV off and back on and got Magenta. Power-cycled again and had reverse colors back. Wiggled the HDMI plug in the Tivo and poof, gone (although it still connected enough to shut off the component out). Looks like its time for unit 3...


----------



## Afergy

Purchased my 2nd HD Tivo August 2004. No problems until last week when the HDMI port died. Does anyone know definitively if this is truly a software issue? Or is this hardware related?

On a side note: Are these units going to be useless when D* launches the new satellites? I read that the compression ratio is changing which will make these obsolete. Please no opinions just facts. Thanks!


----------



## georgemoe

Mine has been running now without HDMI incident for 2 weeks. Version "f".


----------



## acampo

HDMI DEAD
there goes my hdmi...
The only change i made was to hookup svideo and analog audio out to a dvd recorder.
now its dead........ flashes of red blue then dead again.


----------



## Larry Chanin

Afergy said:


> On a side note: Are these units going to be useless when D* launches the new satellites? I read that the compression ratio is changing which will make these obsolete. Please no opinions just facts. Thanks!


Hi,

As I understand it for a relatively short time DIRECTV will be broadcast in both MPEG2 and MPEG4 after the launch of the new satellites.

When they turn off the MPEG2 broadcast ALL EXISTING RECEIVERS, both standard and high definition, will no longer work.

There is speculation that the upgrades to the new technology will be at little or no cost, but DIRECTV, as is their practice, has not made a firm public commitment on the subject.

Larry


----------



## starbucksfreak

Bodie said:


> Didn't have HDMI to test the first unit (replaced due to stuttering). Just got the 32" Aquos and when I first connected HDMI I got what looked like reversed colors. Turned the TV off and back on and got Magenta. Power-cycled again and had reverse colors back. Wiggled the HDMI plug in the Tivo and poof, gone (although it still connected enough to shut off the component out). Looks like its time for unit 3...


For Bodie, is your Aquos connected HDMI-to-HDMI or are you using the DVI input on your display?


----------



## ArcticGabe

3 months now and HDMI is still going strong.

Good thing I have a wood desk; I don't have to reach too far to knock on it.


----------



## Pangloss

My replacement's HDMI channel is also broken. I'm sending it back and just going with component cables.


----------



## uofmtiger

I had a hard drive failure on my first HDTivo box and bever tested HDMI. 

Recently, I noticed that my picture would "spike" if I had a flash or very bright scene on the program I was watching via the component inputs (1080i, 720P, 480p, but no problem in 480i) on my newest HDTivo box. I tried to switch to the HDMI to DVI connector and I did not get a picture at all on my TV. I also have a HD PVR cable box and it also has the bright scene problem. I decided to test the HDMI to DVI cord on it and it worked flawlessly. It actually fixed the "spike" problem, too. 

I guess I need another replacement for my HDTivo (not to mention a DVI switcher)!


----------



## bertschb

I heard rumors that the "F" version of the software would fix some HDMI problems so I went back to my HDMI output and my overheating message is gone. I'm on box #3 and it worked originally for 11 days before the overheating message showed up. I've been on component cables ever since.

We'll see how long it works this time. Since this unit has the newer HDMI card design (built in 2005) which is supposed to be more secure, perhaps all I needed was the F software to correct the overheating error message.

Time will tell...


----------



## sdgator

I have an HR10-250 I purchased in Dec 2004, and as of a couple days ago (just over 3 months in service) the HDMI port decided to quit working properly. I still see a picture, but everything looks like it has gone through photoshop. The faces look like they are painted with watercolors. I spent about an hour on the phone with customer service and to no avail, the unit never worked properly. My curiosity about other possible failures out there in the world brought me to this site, where I was incredibly surprised to see so many complaints regarding the exact same issue I was having. Talk about an eye opener....and an eyebrow rasier....geez. The "technicians" on the phone were questioning all the components of my setup, from the television, to the cable, to the fit of the HDMI connector, etc. Each item they questioned was quickly and immediately verified as a quality product, and he began to run out of things to question. His actual words were, "man, you've spent a lot of money on your setup. I guess we had better look more to the TIVO unit itself as the problem". The exact details of my setup are listed below. Judge for yourself. I believe that everything I used is top quality. Or maybe it's only middle of the road, and I'm just a noob...lol. Anyway, they are going to send out a technician to "verify" and "run additional tests" on my unit to see what is exactly wrong. So now I am forced to comply with the 4 hour time slot that is required for an appointment with D*. Time off work, just to prove to the D* guys that I'm not full of crap, and the unit they built has some serious issues. I sure hope that I don't have to write another post here explaining that my 3rd and 4th HDMI failure has just occurred. I love my TIVO. I cannot live without it. I am considering returning the unit for 3 regular HD units without TIVO since I still have 2 other standard 40 hour TIVO units to record all the non-HD programming that covers about 90% of D* broadcasts. Why can't they incorporate HD locals in with the HD TIVO unit?? I guess you can never be 100% happy with anything that is made of microchips. I think the "F" in the software version stands for something else, cause that's what I am after spending 1K on a 3 month HR10-250. F'ed!!!!


1 HR10-250
1 Hitachi Ultravision 50HS810 LCD Rear Projection TV
1 Samsung HD-841 DVD Player
1 Harmon Kardon AVR-635 Receiver
1 Mirage Nanosat 5.1 speaker system
1 Velodyne DLS-3750R 10" Sub
1 Monitor Silver Series 10 Center Speaker
All Top end Monster cables for all connections (DVI-HDMI, HDMI, Optical sound, etc.)


----------



## whsbuss

brickcasa said:


> I purchased my original unit at the end of January from BB. HDMI was dead out of the box. Returned it to BB for an exchange the same day. That unit worked fine until today, the HDMI died.
> I called D*, & after finally getting transferred to the "HD Support Department" I was told it was a software issue & I would just have to live with component output until a software update was release sometime in the future. He told me the software was causing overheating, & that was killing the HDMI.
> I asked to talk to a supervisor. After arguing with him for several minutes he finally agreed to send me a replacement unit, but he warned me that I would have the same problem with the new unit until this software update was released.
> 
> Not a great experience.
> Not very happy.


Well my HDMI->DVI connection just died. Happened after I power cycled the Tivo. Got the "f" update a week ago and things seemed fine. 2nd level support told me them same thing - wait for the next update.

My temp is at 41c - which is normal so I don't think its a temp problem. When I connect via s-video and look at the system info screen, the HMDI Status shows HDCP not enabled. When I unplug/plug the HMDI cable, it changes from not connect to HDCP not enabled.

I'm calling DTV again to demand a new unit again, then unplug the phone connection until they get this resolved. I cannot believe each update creates more and more problems. What a poor engineered unit!


----------



## pbolya

sdgator said:


> I believe that everything I used is top quality...


I think most of us has top quality equipments. If we wouldn't spend the money on a great TV/Receiver/soundsystem we would not spend 1k on a failing TiVo unit. That is why it is so iritating how bad these units are built. But the fact is we do not have a choice. The functionality of TiVo is just so great that I myself are willing to put up with all this crap to have it in HD. I hold of with the HD upgrade for 3 year until finally D* came out with an HD TiVo unit. TV is just unwatchable without TiVo. I myself have a 42" Sony Plasma TV and a 7.1 Sony receiver with top quality speakers (among other gadgets including 3 other TiVo's - 2 of them Sony).


sdgator said:


> Why can't they incorporate HD locals in with the HD TIVO unit??


Since Local channels require to brodcast local versions of this channels D* has to carry all 6 of these in 100's of TV markets. That means over a 1,000 HD channels. That is quite a bandwith to handle. Last year they shut up a new spot beam satelite (spot beam sends different programming to different markets on the same bandwith - like a flashlight it only covers a small part of the country). So now they started to provide local channels through that satellite to the 12 top markets like NY, SF, Tampa etc. they say 30% of there customers live in these 12 markets. They are sending 3 more birds up and they probably have all the markets covered by the end of next year (no additional programming cost if you have SD locals). It is not sure though that our current HD receiver/Satellite will be able to get these channels or just the new D* DVR. 


sdgator said:


> I guess you can never be 100% happy with anything that is made of microchips.


 Not true I never had any problem with my Sony equipment including 2 of the best built TiVo's the Sony SAT-t60 D* series 1 and the Sony SVR-3000 Series 2 Standalone. If D* wouldn't monopolize the HD TiVo market and would let Sony (and others like Phillips etc) build some of the HD TiVo's these thread would have one reply only: By Sony TiVo instead.


sdgator said:


> I think the "F" in the software version stands for something else, cause that's what I am after spending 1K on a 3 month HR10-250. F'ed!!!!


I am gonna quess you meant Failed by F'ed 

Regards,
Peter


----------



## jshaffer85

sdgator said:


> I still see a picture, but everything looks like it has gone through photoshop. The faces look like they are painted with watercolors.


Mine just started doing this last night after a power failure. The only difference is mine is mostly green artifacts/shading. The problem seemed to correct itself when I restarted but it would return again in a minute or two after the picture corrected.

Anyone know if it could be DVI port failure on the TV (I have a Samsung DLP 50" HLN)? All the other component inputs work fine but I don't have any other DVI equipment to test if the TV is the problem.

I have also had the multiple overlaid images problem as well. Good thing I have the Circuit City 4 year service plan.


----------



## whsbuss

whsbuss said:


> Well my HDMI->DVI connection just died. Happened after I power cycled the Tivo. Got the "f" update a week ago and things seemed fine. 2nd level support told me them same thing - wait for the next update.
> 
> My temp is at 41c - which is normal so I don't think its a temp problem. When I connect via s-video and look at the system info screen, the HMDI Status shows HDCP not enabled. When I unplug/plug the HMDI cable, it changes from not connect to HDCP not enabled.
> 
> I'm calling DTV again to demand a new unit again, then unplug the phone connection until they get this resolved. I cannot believe each update creates more and more problems. What a poor engineered unit!


Talked extensively with DTV 2nd level support...... they do not know why HMDI ports are dying since the "f" update. But they do know they have a major problem with some HD sets via HDMI.

They told me they ARE NOT replacing any HD Tivo units. However, the tech filled out an escalation form to see if I can get a new/replacement unit. Have to wait up to 48 hours for them to contact me.

SO if they deny this request, my next call is to customer retention. I think DTV is now at a cross road for HD Tivo support. We shall see what happens.


----------



## Bodie

starbucksfreak said:


> For Bodie, is your Aquos connected HDMI-to-HDMI or are you using the DVI input on your display?


I went HDMI-HDMI first, didn't get a chance to test the DVI since the HDMI output had already gone out. (lightbulb on) or are you thinking it could be the set's HDMI port?

I'm hooking up via component anyways (for multi-set compatibility, our XBR in the living room only has component, not HDMI/DVI), so the HDMI test was just that (for now).


----------



## Fish Man

Larry Chanin said:


> When they turn off the MPEG2 broadcast ALL EXISTING RECEIVERS, both standard and high definition, will no longer work.


This is not correct.

Eventually all HD channels will be going to MPEG4. All SD channels will remain MPEG2 forever.

Several DirecTV press releases have been quite specific about this.

The economics of this are obvious:

Currently, DirecTV has about 1 million HD receivers in operation. Fewer than 100,000 of those are HD-DTiVos. It is economically feasible for them to replace all of those at their expense.

They have about *25 million* SD receivers in operation! (About 12.5 million customers with an average of 2 receivers each). It would be totally _impossible_ economically to replace all of those.

The schedule of changeover is something like this:


Starting mid 2005 D* will begin rolling out HD locals, all of which will be in MPEG4 and on KA band. 
Over the next 2 - 2.5 years, they will be rolling out HD locals steadily, all in MPEG4. 
During that same time period, they will likely be adding some more national HD channels, which will probably also be in MPEG4. 
After the bulk of the rollout of local HD channels is done, the current HD national channels will be converted to MPEG4. All of us _will have to replace our receivers *before* that happens_ in order to not loose those channels. This changeover _will not happen_ sooner than spring 2007, and probably later than that. 

You are correct about them being quite vague about how the changeover of equipment will be handled.

It's a pretty safe assumption that _some sort of HD DVR_ will be offered to us owners of HD-DTiVos, for "free" or a very small charge, before the current national channels go to MPEG4.

What is completely ambiguous is _what_ sort of PVR will be offered.


Will it be TiVo based, NDS based, Ucentric based, other? 
Will it have dual satellite tuners? Will it have any ATSC tuners (a favorite feature of the HD-DTiVo for me), either single or dual? 

And what if DirecTV adds your locals or other national HD channels that you are interested in and you own an HR10-250? Do you get a free or greatly discounted offer on a replacement DVR then?

These are the sort of questions that are currently unanswered.


----------



## Larry Chanin

Hi Fish,

Thanks for the correction and elaboration. 

Larry


----------



## biffstertim

I received my new Sept-built HR10 last week. HDMI was dead (no signal) out of the box. D* said I have to wait until as late as late April for a software fix. That's all.

Really? Is that what others are currently being told?


----------



## Don7070

Hello everyone. I am on my third HD Tivo. Of course, the component works fine, but on all of them, I am having the same HDMI issue. When I first set it up it works fine, but then after a few hours, or overnight, it goes out, and I get a screen that flashes between green & snow. I have not seen it go out while the tv is on. I don't know if that matters. This doesn't seem like the same problem everyone else is having. Any help would be appreciated.

Also, I get no audio through my tv with the HDMI cable, I have to use the optical connector through my home theater system. I know that is better sound quality, but shouldn't I have the choice of using the audio on the tv? Tv is a JVC DILA purchased in January. Thanks a lot!


----------



## starbucksfreak

Bodie said:


> I went HDMI-HDMI first, didn't get a chance to test the DVI since the HDMI output had already gone out. (lightbulb on) or are you thinking it could be the set's HDMI port?
> 
> I'm hooking up via component anyways (for multi-set compatibility, our XBR in the living room only has component, not HDMI/DVI), so the HDMI test was just that (for now).


The pinkish cast to the picture would happen for me when I did go HDMI to HDMI. But it was sporadic--and not actually a failure of the HR10-250 port. I moved to the DVI on the Sharp only because of the audio error message problem with the Sharp--and never had the pinkish cast issue again. But then I eventually had the overheat shut down, which was a complete failure of the HDMI interface. That has been remedied by the F software patch.

The only issue I have now with the HR10-250 is the occassional drop out of audio on HD shows. That is yet another compatitbility issue apparently, and I am told a lot of folks have experienced it. It was particularly distracting on an HBO movie broadcast last night.


----------



## nuke

still working after about a year now.

Hard disk died. Replaced the disk. Other than that, nothing else.


----------



## TRGump

Reason for stating the title four times is because I have had 4 HR10-250s, all with bad HDMI to DVI port.

D* sent out tech yesterday and he said, "your HDMI port doesn't work", he then called tech spt and they said "your HDMI port doesn't work", so, they're sending me a new one.

I have 4 D* Tivos, only 1 HR10-250, never have had a problem with the other 3 non-HD receivers (Hughes, Philips and RCA).

I have a Mitsubishi WS55513 HD, so the HD connection from the HR10-250 is an HDMI to DVI input through the Monitor Link; component, S-Vid and composite work, but no HDMI. I also just purchased an Insignia, 23 in. HD from BestBuy this past Sat. Had to take the first one back, no picture, but the second one works pretty good, although not connected to an HD rcvr, will cure that as soon as I can get the HDMI to work on the HR10-250. This came in handy because I was also able to show the tech rep that the HDMI-DVI does not work with the Insignia. I also have tried 3 different HDMI to DVI cables, one was the monster $120.00 cable so I ruled out a bad cable early. 

I'm using the "f" version of the software, so hopefully this next HR10-250 will work, if not, I'm either gonna take the unit back to BestBuy or have to live with component only connection which isn't a bad picture.

Anyway, will share the results once the replacement has been received which will be tomorrow.

I hope no one else ever has this or similar bad experiences with the HR10-250, Sat., HD and Tivo should provide a lustful viewing experience, I'm eagerly awaiting to experience this myself, hopefully after tomorrow.

Cheers to all ...

Gump


----------



## obi1

starbucksfreak said:


> The only issue I have now with the HR10-250 is the occassional drop out of audio on HD shows. That is yet another compatitbility issue apparently, and I am told a lot of folks have experienced it. It was particularly distracting on an HBO movie broadcast last night.


I also have the dropouts on HD channels and have posted several times on this. D* of course says they have never heard of this problem. Problem only occurs on D* supplied programming, never occurs on OTA of same program. I can be watching Boston Legal on D* and is very annoying, I also will be recording Boston Legal OTA on 2nd receiver and it is fine. Also reception from D* when using my old Sony HD 100 sat receiver, no audio problems. Also no problems on my other 3 non HD Tivo's. So if looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it probably is......;.............. Don't you hate it when a vendor who has charging you over 100 bucks per month for 10 years just lies to you? My only recourse is that for the past 2 years in my frustration with D* is that I never recommend their service or Tivo to anyone anymore.. In the past I know that I was responsible for a large number of new users, but now nada, nada. Of course they are probably so dense that they do not care. They would rather spend a few million more on advedrtising then to please their customers who can recommend and bring them more. OH yes my HDMI has not worked from day one and reading all the horror stories I will just continue to run component until it is fixed. I purchased a 5 years warranty(yea I know, stupid!) on my 250 so I will wait.


----------



## H2O

sotapoppy said:


> Born 4-24-04 in USA
> 
> Bought from CC on 5/7/04.
> 
> HDMI port worked flawlessly until it died on 6/17/04.
> 
> D* is sending new unit.
> 
> FWIW my pic using the component connection is noticeably inferior to the pic using the HDMI to DVI connection on my TV.
> 
> BTW I'm the only one that has had an HDMI port failure. D* CSR told me so!


 I had the same response from them when I had a HDMI problem. They suggested going to component connections. They said that I nobody could notice the difference. If HDMI doesn't work on their units, they shouldn't sell the feature. I'm on my 2nd HR 10-250 unit now, waiting for them to deliver the third. All within a month.

By the way, their software upgrade messed up this one. I now see only bright blues where shades of black should be.


----------



## H2O

jshaffer85 said:


> Mine just started doing this last night after a power failure. The only difference is mine is mostly green artifacts/shading. The problem seemed to correct itself when I restarted but it would return again in a minute or two after the picture corrected.
> 
> Anyone know if it could be DVI port failure on the TV (I have a Samsung DLP 50" HLN)? All the other component inputs work fine but I don't have any other DVI equipment to test if the TV is the problem.
> 
> I have also had the multiple overlaid images problem as well. Good thing I have the Circuit City 4 year service plan.


 After a software upgrade, mine did the same with blues instead of greens. I'm waiting for a new unit from them, my 3rd in a month.


----------



## starbucksfreak

obi1 said:


> I also have the dropouts on HD channels and have posted several times on this. D* of course says they have never heard of this problem. Problem only occurs on D* supplied programming, never occurs on OTA of same program. I can be watching Boston Legal on D* and is very annoying, I also will be recording Boston Legal OTA on 2nd receiver and it is fine. Also reception from D* when using my old Sony HD 100 sat receiver, no audio problems. Also no problems on my other 3 non HD Tivo's. So if looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it probably is......;.............. Don't you hate it when a vendor who has charging you over 100 bucks per month for 10 years just lies to you? My only recourse is that for the past 2 years in my frustration with D* is that I never recommend their service or Tivo to anyone anymore.. In the past I know that I was responsible for a large number of new users, but now nada, nada. Of course they are probably so dense that they do not care. They would rather spend a few million more on advedrtising then to please their customers who can recommend and bring them more. OH yes my HDMI has not worked from day one and reading all the horror stories I will just continue to run component until it is fixed. I purchased a 5 years warranty(yea I know, stupid!) on my 250 so I will wait.


They actually do know about this audio dropout problem that only occurs on certain HD broadcasts. I just don't think their CSReps have been clued in. Seems like it would be better to be straightforward with the customers via the frontline contact centers, but then we have seen where factual info is not often being communicated from there. In any case, the audio errors apparently have to do with D*'s fix on the synchronization problems. That's corrected--but another problem then occurs with the dropout.


----------



## AZJimbo

New service and Tivo HD unit was installed on Saturday. The HDMI port was DOA, it won't recognize the OTA signal, the audio drop out is the pits and the DSI tech was not knowledgeable and a pain.

When I called the problem in, I had to escalate to a supervisor. They said I should call the place I bought it from and after haggling a while they said they would ship a replacement.

So it's Thursday and no unit yet. I called back and talked to 4 different people who finally told me the order was not in the system and retook the information and reassured me it was in the system now. 2-5 days to receive.

I have read all the forum stuff and I still buy the damn HD DVR, go figure. I just can't watch TV anymore, I have to watch Tivo.

Azjimbo


----------



## MichaelK

I think we need to start the poll over. I voted no problems months ago but now my unit is screwing up.

I have an American made unit from like June of last year. Worked via HDMI->DVI since day one, but now its doing the thing were it does shading and gets blocky. Seems just the connector is bad- if I jiggle the cable I can get it to work (might be the board is loose and jiggling the connector moves the board). But clearly my unit has a mechanical connection issue someplace.

I think Ill just move to component for now. I dont know that its worth the effort to bother fighting with them over it when this time next year it will have been swapped out anyhow. To me I mostly was worried about HDMI to make sure I was OK if anyone ever bothered with copy protection but it doesnt sound like I need to sweat that before D* swaps me to MPEG4. Of course if I connect the component cables and it looks like crap I may change my mind- but from what Ive read here, there couldnt be a significant difference- some eve say component is better.


----------



## Bodie

starbucksfreak said:


> The pinkish cast to the picture would happen for me when I did go HDMI to HDMI. But it was sporadic--and not actually a failure of the HR10-250 port. I moved to the DVI on the Sharp only because of the audio error message problem with the Sharp--and never had the pinkish cast issue again. But then I eventually had the overheat shut down, which was a complete failure of the HDMI interface. That has been remedied by the F software patch.
> 
> The only issue I have now with the HR10-250 is the occassional drop out of audio on HD shows. That is yet another compatitbility issue apparently, and I am told a lot of folks have experienced it. It was particularly distracting on an HBO movie broadcast last night.


If I feel ambitious enough, maybe I'll carry the sharp back downstairs to the Tivo and try HDMI-DVI just for thoroughness-sake. Intuitively, it shouldn't work since the last output from the HDMI was a blank screen (now I can't remember if there was audio or not) and a lockout on the component output.


----------



## JJChandler

Well I just requested my 3rd Tivo unit. I added a DVD recorder to my stack of equipment and when I went to plug it in to the RCA audio jacks I found that the metal jacket was missing from the RCA video jack. It seems the metal jackets on all the RCA jacks aren't soldered to anything??? They just pull out from the box when you pull off the cables. D* agreed to send me a new unit in a couple of days.

Could we bring any type of class action suit against D* for this $1000 defective unit? I've read that many people have returned units many more times than myself. I spoke to a 2nd level CSR then her manager about having D* extend the warranty for another year. They won't do it. I don't think I should have to pay $8 to cover a defective product.

This is infuriating me and I want to do something about it. I could spend $30 bucks on a dvd player and the RCA jacks would be attached!


----------



## Craig540

falstaffpac said:


> I I've read in another thread that just before someone's HDMI went out, they temporarily saw a picture with "snow" on their television. I've seen this occurence twice now and it makes me shudder. .


That is how my second unit just went out days after the F update. I saw the snow screen a few times when changing back to DVI from another input and now the screen just flickers every 5 seconds.It was fine for about 5 months with a component hookup and now with my new LCD going on 3 weeks DVI this happens. This is my second unit the first going out for HD failure the next day after the E update. I called retention tonight and have another one on the way.


----------



## Craig540

I just swicthed from component back to DVI to check and now its ok. Is this the over heating problem ? It will probably come back right ?
Also when it was flickering it said HDCP not enabled in the system info now its enabled and working fine. Man I hate to loose saved programs I have, Guess i'll let the other one come and make a discission to keep it or not. The new one may have bad HD or HDMI.


----------



## kenkirk

Well, my first HDDTV tivo worked great until the HD failed. DTV sent out a replacement 2 months ago. It was a brand new unit. The HDMI failed last night. A complete failure. It was working perfectly. I have never moved the plug once it was installed the first time.

Should I send it back at this point. The component outs work fine with my Sony XBR 34 monitor.

Ken


----------



## bobpenn

Just got my HD Tivo. No output from HDMI, only from Component. So I refused it. They brought another one to me the same day, and time time, HDMI worked fine! Got lucky, I suppose. I learned the hard way, as did the tech, that you can't have a plug in HDMI and Component at the same time, so for awhile it looked like nothing was outputting on the first unit. It was this board which solved that problem, not the tech, who was nice but inexperienced (his second HD install, he told me).

Anyway, all is well. The OTA in Los Angeles looks fantastic and the HD channels looks great. Only downside: the first digital show I managed to tune in was Jerry Springer.


----------



## drjeckl

MichaelK said:


> I think we need to start the poll over. I voted no problems months ago but now my unit is screwing up.
> 
> I have an American made unit from like June of last year. Worked via HDMI->DVI since day one, but now its doing the thing were it does shading and gets blocky. Seems just the connector is bad- if I jiggle the cable I can get it to work (might be the board is loose and jiggling the connector moves the board). But clearly my unit has a mechanical connection issue someplace.
> 
> I think Ill just move to component for now. I dont know that its worth the effort to bother fighting with them over it when this time next year it will have been swapped out anyhow. To me I mostly was worried about HDMI to make sure I was OK if anyone ever bothered with copy protection but it doesnt sound like I need to sweat that before D* swaps me to MPEG4. Of course if I connect the component cables and it looks like crap I may change my mind- but from what Ive read here, there couldnt be a significant difference- some eve say component is better.


Not sure another poll is going to reveal anything or cause D* to do something else. If a new poll is created, add a choice for " temporarily rigged HDMI card to seat correctly into MB and waiting for the permanent fix." That's how I would vote.

Really, anyone who would go out on a limb and spend $1K on a box like this should know basic PC repair and that's all thats need to get around this problem without having to drop down to component. If jiggling the connector brings it back for a second or 2, you're a candidate for redemption. Pop the top, loosen all the screws to the card, make your TV and sat connections in a test environment. Press on the card til you get a clean picture. See if you can tighten down the board while maintaining the picture.

Once you figure out how it works, put the gear in its final spot and re-test. I have my HDMI card totally not screwed to chassis or MB. I'm sitting here, viewing an HDMI picture, waiting for the final fix. Rev f just fixed those sets that weren't compatible.

A software patch doesnt fix a hardware problem. ..jce


----------



## Craig540

bobpenn said:


> I learned the hard way, as did the tech, that you can't have a plug in HDMI and Component at the same time


 Is there a thread on this ?


----------



## Roadmaster

Bought my first HR 10-250 in Oct 04 and the HDMI didn't work right out of the box. Returned it to Best Buy and they replaced it with another new unit which has worked flawlessly until last week (Mar 25, 05) when the HDMI went out on the replacement unit. Best Buy won't touch it now as it's past 30 days, but D* is supposedly sending a replacement. I've 'very' concerned that I've had 2 units go down with the same problem. Overall, I've loved the receiver and the picture quality. Hopefully they get this issue fixed!


----------



## MichaelK

drjeckl said:


> Not sure another poll is going to reveal anything or cause D* to do something else. If a new poll is created, add a choice for " temporarily rigged HDMI card to seat correctly into MB and waiting for the permanent fix." That's how I would vote....
> 
> ..jce


I just figure the current numbers above are even worse because people who previously voted that everything is ok might have had problems later on.

Thanks for the advice on reseating it- but honestly it looks just as good component to me so and Im in one of the first 12 MPEG4 markets so I figure its good enough till they have an MPEG4 dvr to switch me too come the end of this year or beginning of next.

Isnt worth the effort (to me)


----------



## Klankster

bobpenn said:


> I learned the hard way, as did the tech, that you can't have a plug in HDMI and Component at the same time


Can someone explain this? When I set up my box, I connected the component outputs to my TV's component/HD input and connected the HDMI output to the TV's HDMI input. Both worked fine for both SD and HD. I could watch on either of these.

One day a couple of weeks ago, the HDMI output simply stopped working. No audio or video in either SD or HD. Component works, though.

Maybe I should try disconnecting the component outputs and see if HDMI works...


----------



## gfb107

If the HD-TiVO detects that something is actively connected to the HDMI port, it will turn off the other outputs (except in 480i mode).

Some device with HDMI inputs will disable the HDMI input when other inputs are active, and the HDTiVo will recognize this and turn the other outputs back on. Sounds like your TV does this.


----------



## AZJimbo

MichaelK said:


> I just figure the current numbers above are even worse because people who previously voted that everything is ok might have had problems later on.
> 
> Thanks for the advice on reseating it- but honestly it looks just as good component to me so and Im in one of the first 12 MPEG4 markets so I figure its good enough till they have an MPEG4 dvr to switch me too come the end of this year or beginning of next.
> 
> Isnt worth the effort (to me)


Where can I get a list of the first 12 meg4 markets?

Thanks


----------



## mintakaX

drjeckl said:


> Really, anyone who would go out on a limb and spend $1K on a box like this should know basic PC repair and that's all thats need to get around this problem without having to drop down to component.
> 
> .jce


That is the biggest bunch of crap I have read :down: Thats like saying you shouldnt buy an expensive car unless you are a mechanic--total BS.


----------



## MichaelK

AZJimbo said:


> Where can I get a list of the first 12 meg4 markets?
> 
> Thanks


Avs HD forums have all the information.

There are several threads about it. If you cant find the threads go to the locals HD forum and look at the list from Doug of the thread index. Its listed by order of DMA. The top 11 and number 13 DMAs are first to get MPEG4.


----------



## bertschb

Update # ....... Uh, I lost track.

I'm on unit #3 (2005 build). The last two have given me the overheat error while using HDMI. The current unit lasted 9 days before I got the overheat error message. Ten days ago I heard about software version "F" fixing this problem for some folks so I tried my HDMI connection again and it worked! WhooHoo! Today I got the overheat message again. Time to climb back behind the stereo cabinet and switch back to component. 

I can't wait till this is resolved. Why in the world would HDMI stop working after 9 days then start working again after the "F" update then stop again 10 days later??? Ug!


----------



## MichaelK

what TV are you connected to?

The overheat probelm can be caused by Sharp LCD TV's


----------



## bertschb

Sony 60" GWII (LCD). 

I think I may just use component for a couple days then go back to HDMI. Based on the last two tries with this one box that should work for about 10 days.


----------



## MichaelK

hmmm, interesting. Read the sharp aquos thread, I believe there is a number in there to call if you get the overheat message and the f upgrade didnt fix it. They apparently need your TV model number to figure it out (assuming its a software issue)


----------



## Larry Chanin

Bert,

What temperature did the System Information display say you were running at during these overheat error messages? Where is your TiVo located in relation to other heat producing components?

Larry


----------



## bertschb

You can't check the temperature when (or after ) you get the overheat message. All you can do is unplug the power and reboot. It's not overheating. It's on a shelf all by itself with 6" of space above and nothing blocking the back of the unit. It's not even warm to the touch. When I have checked the temperature it's 42 degrees (if I remember correctly).

Unit #2 worked great for the first 10 days or so and then gave me the overheat message. I sent that one back and got this unit (#3). It worked great for about 10 days then gave me the overheat message. I switched to component until I got software "F" at which time I tried HDMI again. It worked great for another 10 days or so and then gave me the overheat message again.

I'm no engineer but I'm pretty dang sure it wouldn't work for 10 days and then "overheat". It wouldn't take 10 days to get hot. Something else is going on.


----------



## MichaelK

the sharp agous bug caused similar behavior.


----------



## Kbert5

<<Still love the HD TiVo in spite of the HDMI problem though.>>

Greetings Don,

Are you still using the component connections? Are you still satisfied?

I'm a charter TIVO subscriber and was very interested in the Hughes box at first. I've had a hi-def setup for nearly two years but watch mostly time-shifted content with an old Series I Philips. After lurking in this forum for nearly a year, I can only admire the patience (masochism?) of the folks who keep sending their units back for replacement. As much as I hate to spend $1K on a product with an apparent fundamental defect, there seems not to be an alternative. I want to use my expensive hi-def system at times of my choosing.

Is there really much difference between component and HDMI PQ?

Thanks and I hereby solicit comments from other participants.


----------



## bertschb

I have a Sony GWII LCD and I don't notice any difference in PQ between component and HDMI/DVI. But, the big hassle for me is losing that extra connection on my TV. I have three devices but only two HD connections when I can't use the DVI input on my TV. I'm constantly having to unplug cables.

And you are correct, the reason we stick with the HD Tivo is because there isn't anything else.


----------



## Budget_HT

Kbert5,

I have had an HD TiVo since April, 2004. After resolution of a few intial problems (like audio dropouts on HDNet, long since fixed), my unit has performed flawlessly. But, I do not use (or have any means to use) the HDMI output.

One time I thought I had an audio dropout problem with the HD TiVo, but it turned out to be a loose optical connector on the cable between the HD TiVo and my A/V system.

Having owned two SD DirecTiVo's for over 3 years, I was frustrated having to watch HD programs in real time. I have now returned to my normal "watch it when I want to" mode for HDTV viewing.

When you read the posts in this forum (and others) you hear mostly about problems and folks looking for and hoping to find solutions. Typically the folks who have had no problems do not post that fact.

I consider my HD TiVo the best home theater investment that I have made. I paid $900 initially and then DirecTV gave me credits that totaled nearly $300, so the end cost was more like $600 plus sales tax on $900.

If you purchase from Value Electronics (and I think also from Solid Signal) online, you get a free 5-year extended warranty.

Have I convinced you yet?

Be advised that the upcoming migration of DirecTV HD programming from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 will take place over several years. At the point in time where it becomes desirable or necessary to make the change, everyone expects DirecTV to offer a no- or low-cost upgrade path that will likely be coupled to another year of committed service. DirecTV has done similar conversions in the past, and they have hinted to doing so again, although there are no details nor promises.

I would not let the MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 migration stop me from buying an HD TiVo if I did not already have one.


----------



## Kbert5

Thanks for the reassurance Dave. I'll probably bite the bullet and contact VE. 

The HDTIVO will not enhance our viewing experience as much as most because my spouse and I have no interest in team sports, sitcoms and the kind of material the networks dish up at night. Golf and tennis are our main interests and there's precious little coverage of those sports. We did enjoy watching the rained-out Masters this afternoon on UHD.

Thanks again.

Bert


----------



## Kbert5

bertschb,

<<I have a Sony GWII LCD and I don't notice any difference in PQ between component and HDMI/DVI>>

Well that's encouraging. I have a Sharp AQUOS & SAT-250.

Bert


----------



## Cabinwood

I can finally respond to this -- just got a new Samsung DLP. Plugged in the HDMI and it works great! I have one of the first HD Tivo's shipped, so maybe I'm lucky. So far so good!!!


----------



## TiVonian

Kbert5 said:


> Thanks and I hereby solicit comments from other participants.


Kbert5, since you asked...

One of my setups is a 45" Sharp AQUOS (LC45-GX6U) driven by a HR10-250. The original HR10-250 HDMI was bad since day one in 05/2004, (old flimsy style HDMI to MB connector) and was replaced in 02/2005 with the new style HR10-250 (much more solid HDMI to MB connector).

Since the HDTV is a Sharp AQUOS, I immediately encountered the two AQUOS bugs that prevent a Dolby Digital signal from being decoded over the HDMI interface and the intermittant PINK Screen problem. (This basically removed the HDMI interface from my choices - unless it truly gave a noticably superior PQ)

My particular situation REQUIRES that the TV be capable of simple, non AV amp, operation by the TiVo "peanut". This is a NON-NEGOTIABLE spouse thing. So please everyone, spare us all a slew of "my favorite remote will work in your situation" postings, because they WON'T. You just have to trust me on this.

Consequently, I have tried every conceivable HD cable combination that can exist between the HD-TiVo and the AQUOS, finally re-choosing the "Component" connection once again. A friend of mine is a ISF calibration tech and even he said that he couldn't discern any real difference between the HDMI, DVI, and Component connections when viewing the HD-NET test parttern. (Line 10 under "If You Can Read This...is perfectly legible regardless of the connection used)

The HDMI hardware interface is definitely problematic on the pre-2005 HR10-250's, and NO amount of software patching is going to fix that POS motherboard connector that caused my original unit swapout. Unfortunately, once the HDMI port was operational, it then revealed my two AQUOS specific problems. (No DD over HDMI and intermittant Pink Screen on powerup of the TV)

Other posters here have described a false "overheat" problem when using an AQUOS. I never experienced that particular problem during the 3 weeks that I used the HDMI connection during my testing.

I took the opportunity when I added a second drive and again when D* exchanged my original unit to scrub the drives with SpinRite. I have never experienced the video "stuttering" that many posters have described.

With 37 years in the IT business, I have been on the "bleeding edge" of hardware platform rollouts many times. My experience with the HR10-250 has been quite benign compared to other rollouts of new systems that I have been involved with. Overall, I'm still very pleased with the HR10-250 despite it's shortcomings that I have experienced.

TiVonian-


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## Kbert5

Many thanks TiVonian for that contribution. I have not yet bought either the HR10-250 or 45" AQUOS. I've been using an LC-37HV4U for two years and have been so pleased that I was almost ready to spring for the 45. Besides, the 45" AQUOS at 43" wide will just fit the aperture in my entertainment center. The 37 incher is in another room.

<<two AQUOS bugs that prevent a Dolby Digital signal from being decoded over the HDMI interface and the intermittent PINK Screen >>

If you had it to do over would you still choose the SHARP in light of the bugs? As an IT pro, do you think these anomalies can be fixed?

I'm going to order the Hughes box to-day. We'll see how it performs with my 37" AQUOS and SAT520. I could go the DLP route but whatever HD set I wind up with will be integrated into my LAN. I have to be able to use it as a computer monitor.

Thanks again.


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## tanasi

Its gone again. Number three just bit the dust. I went upstairs to do something during a break in the Masters and came back down to the dreaded green screen. Fiddling with the connection and rebooting didn't help and soon there was no picture at all. This one lasted from 18 December 2004 until today and was manufactured 20 October 2004.

I called the advanced number and he transferred me to the protection plan tech support since I had that. I talked to him for a minute and was transfered to the protection plan customer service who ordered me a replacement receiver. The replacement is supposed to be here in two business days.

Everytime I call them it is a different procedure. Maybe this one will last a while.


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## Craig540

I am on the 3rd HR10-250. The first one was purchased 9 days after the first one hit the streets with a preorder from GG. It went out with the E update with HD failure. Second one was working great until days after the F update.

I should note that I was using component up until 2 weeks before the F update. 
I changed from a TV that did not have DVI (Mitz 46809} now I have an LCD from Syntaz LT32HV 32". 

I saw the snow screen a few times when changing back to DVI from another input and now the screen just flickers every 5 seconds.It was fine for about 5 months with a component hookup and now with my new LCD going on 3 weeks DVI this happens. I went back to component for a day then swicthed from component back to DVI to check and it was ok. That worked for 4 days and then I got the overheat error, unplugged it over night and it started up next morning on DVI ok. Well now I have received a new one and its on the 3rd day with DVI and no error so far. I did get the static screen when going from VGA to DVI so I am worried it will die soon. My 2nd unit was made on 10-6-2004 the new unit does not say when it was made only made in Mexico. 

This is getting close to my DTV year so I hope I can get a good one soon.

If I where to exchange the drive in the 2nd unit before I send it back would there be a problem when they receive it.
This is the 2nd time I am loosing programs I like to save for showing of the HD to family and friends.


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## TiVonian

Kbert5 said:


> If you had it to do over would you still choose the SHARP in light of the bugs? As an IT pro, do you think these anomalies can be fixed?


Kbert5-

I apologize in advance for answering your "What time is it?" questions with instructions on how to build a clock - but it's one of my "anomalies".

_*(1) If you had it to do over would you still choose the SHARP in light of the bugs?*_
The answer to this question is a resounding YES.

The AQUOS PQ is absolutely stunning to say the least and from a reliability standpoint its LCD technology has several distinct advantages over the competing technologies. (Unfortunately price isn't one of them.) It isn't as susceptable to picture "burn in" as plasmas are, nor does it rely on the mechanical parts used in a DLP system. The Texas Instrument DLP chip, or Digital Micromirror Device, is itself an electromechanical device containing nearly 1 million moving mirrors at the current 1280x720 resolution and over 2 million moving parts when 1920x1080 resolution becomes available later this year. The backlight in my AQUOS has a design life of 60K hr, and is changeable. Plasma design life is usually around 20K hrs and nothing is replaceable. The light sources in DLP based units are usually 5K->8K hr design life. I don't have any reliability information on the DLP "color wheel" life expectancy but it is, after all, a mechanical device spinning at 8K->12K rpm. (Think 10,000 rpm disk drive)

I originally chose the Sharp based on space constraints. My new entertainment center was built to house a Pioneer Elite 1150HD 50" plasma which I never purchased, due to its scarcity and cost at the time, and the announcements by Samsung and Sharp at CES2004 for their 1920x1080p 45" LCDs. Even though the Samsung was available first, it's built-in and non-detachable side mounted speakers made it too wide to fit in the cabinet, so I waited for the Sharp offering - and its never given me any reason to look back.

Sharp announced a 65" AQUOS at CES2005 and I'll probably upgrade when it becomes available in the US.

_*(2) As an IT pro, do you think these anomalies can be fixed?*_
The answer to this question isn't quite as simple as the first.
Can these anomalies be fixed? - YES. Will the units that I currently own be fixed? - I DOUBT IT. Both units were built to comply with HDMI v1.0, the most current at the time they were designed. Both of the problems under discussion here are HDMI related. The DD audio problem is in the AQUOS. Can I prove it? - YES. Is Sharp going to swap out my TV with an updated model to fix it? - NO. The PINK Screen problem lies within the HR10-250. Can I prove it? - YES. It's a failure of the HDMI handshake protocol whereby the two units are supposed to exchange information about their settings and capabilities when powered up. Is D* going to fix my HR10-250? If it can be done in the software - MAYBE. If it requires any kind of hardware - NO. These are just some of the hidden costs that I willingly accept to be an early adopter, a.k.a. the first kid on the block with the newest toys.

In the big scheme of things, the HDMI specification is still in its infancy, but evolving rapidly. The HDMI designers undoubtedly tried to cover all the bases in their original specification design - but the real testing doesn't begin until the work is finalized and "released into the WILD". The CE vendors engineers may have "interpreted" the spec differently than the design engineers had intended. I can also guarantee that we consumers possess the uncanny ability to come up with a multitude of imaginative ways to break the spec that the engineers could NEVER have envisioned nor anticipated. Vendor interoperability using a newly designed interface has never been without problems, and HDMI will be no different. HDMI v1.1 is now current and the next revision will include more fixes and possibly some type of latching mechanism for the HDMI cables. The HDMI.org was accepting engineering suggestions for this improvement up until the middle of last month. (03/15/05)

Some historical examples:

When IDE disk drives first appeared, very few brands could successfully be teamed as master and slave on the same controller, and sometimes even different model drives from the same manufacturer wouldn't work together!

When the USB v1.0 interface appeared - vendor interoperability was an urgent problem addressed by v1.1 and continued in v2.0 (in addition to increased speed) My favorite example was Bill Gates at his nationally televised (LIVE) release of Windows95. He demonstrated plugging in a USB device and it crashed his PC! (The look on his face and verbal stammering was priceless.)

The same can be said about 10/100/1000BaseT, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc. and on and on. Version 1.0, the design engineers' best guess, is quickly followed by v1.1,v1.2, etc. New "standards" always move from the drawing boards to the market place where the real testing can begin. Ethernet over twisted pair still has link "auto-negotiation" problems between some products even today.

I'm not thrilled that I spent $6K on a HDTV and $1K on a TiVo to become a Beta tester, but then again I wasn't expecting perfection either. Both the HDTV and the HD-TiVo were already being released to production while HDMI v1.0 was still being finalized.

On a different subject, since you mentioned that you use your AQUOS as a computer monitor, have you experimented with any of the WMV-HD stuff? It's true HD material, mastered from IMAX, and available on DVD. The downside is that its only playable on Windows PCs with MediaPlayer 9.0 or higher installed. Since the 37" AQUOS is native 720p, the PC hardware requirements aren't as high as for 1080p. If your PC has a DVI video card and a 2.4Ghz processor, it should work OK. The following web site explains it all and has some sample clips and trailers for download. If you haven't seen this stuff before, I think you'll be impressed by what your AQUOS is actually capable of.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

TiVonian-


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## Kbert5

TiVonian,

<Is D* going to fix my HR10-250? If it can be done in the software - MAYBE. If it requires any kind of hardware - NO.>

I guess I'll see how the HR10-250 performs on my 2 yr old SHARP LCD. As I mentioned, the current offerings on HD aren't all that appealing to me and my bride anyway. By the time programs have become more attractive and less repetitive, perhaps the present problems will have been solved.

<On a different subject, since you mentioned that you use your AQUOS as a computer monitor, have you experimented with any of the WMV-HD stuff? It's true HD material, mastered from IMAX, and available on DVD. The downside is that its only playable on Windows PCs with MediaPlayer 9.0 or higher installed. Since the 37" AQUOS is native 720p, the PC hardware requirements aren't as high as for 1080p. If your PC has a DVI video card and a 2.4Ghz processor, it should work OK. The following web site explains it all and has some sample clips and trailers for download. If you haven't seen this stuff before, I think you'll be impressed by what your AQUOS is actually capable of.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/wi...ntShowcase.aspx>

I'll certainly look at the WMV-HD material. We watch 90% of our TV on the SHARP in my office during dinner. There are two PCs also in that room. I probably use the AQUOS as a computer monitor as much as a television receiver. We occasionally download a show from MovieLink and watch that at meal time. One of the PCs (WIN XP) uses a 3.0 GHz CPU and an ATI AIW Radeon 8500 video card. It really needs a Klipsch 5.1 set instead of our Cambridge Microworks speakers but the wife has a thing about wires.

This has been a most rewarding interchange. I am very grateful to you and the forum sysops. Thanks again.

Bert


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## Joe Jensen

I've had an HD Tivo since the summer of 2004. I've had the HDMI fail several times, (my Sony KDF-60XBR950 would just show snow). Rebooting fixed each time. I've discovered that if I cycle through the output resolutions on the HD Tivo, the picture will come back. Must be some synchronization problem. Is this different from the problems others have been experiencing?


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## MichaelK

TiVonian said:


> ...
> _*(2) As an IT pro, do you think these anomalies can be fixed?*_
> The answer to this question isn't quite as simple as the first.
> Can these anomalies be fixed? - YES. Will the units that I currently own be fixed? - I DOUBT IT. Both units were built to comply with HDMI v1.0, the most current at the time they were designed. Both of the problems under discussion here are HDMI related. The DD audio problem is in the AQUOS. Can I prove it? - YES. Is Sharp going to swap out my TV with an updated model to fix it? - NO. ...
> TiVonian-


Ive got last years model of the aqous (37 inch- funny too- I bought it mostly because of space- a 37 will fit on the wall where I need it an 42 wont- not many 37s to pick from in life).

Anyhow- Ive got the separate box for the connections. It has an I/O slot- I think PC card of the top of my head- Im not one to watch photos on the tv.

My Panasonic LCP RP downstairs also has an io slot- both SD and PC Card.

Ive been thinking, besides the ability to look at JPEGs- maybe these slots are set up to allow firmware updates?

The audio issues on the aquos sound to me like they could possible be fixed in firmware.

Its not a big deal to me- both the control box and the DVR are in a nearby closet, so I dont mind the need for the extra wire for audio. But it would be cool if they could address it by mailing out an SD card or something.


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## tanasi

My third replacement HD Tivo arrived this afternoon. The HDMI works at present. The unit was made in Mexico, no manufacturing date and has the 'e' version of the software. The first unit HDMI was DOA in Sep; the replacement unit sent in Sep HDMI lasted until Dec; the replacement unit sent in Dec HDMI lasted until Saturday during the Masters. I'm not happy with the quality of the component output as it is displayed on my Samsung DLP. My other HD Directv receiver, a Samsung, has much better component quality on this TV.

I had the colour wheel replaced on my DLP and jiggled the HDMI cable in the process. The connection for the ribbon cable from the colour wheel had fused and the tech had to order another part. He said it looked like the effects from heating, not overheating, just the normal heat associated with these units. All the fans were functional and I have the unit plugged into a UPS so it has never powered down without completing the fan cycle. The alignment is not quite right even after working with the tech for two hours, another warranty call coming. 

I have really enjoyed HDTV and the HD Tivo but I'm starting to lose my sense of humour.


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## rmklaw

Well---This one lasted three days. Last night went to use the H10-250 and got dark (no signal) screen. Dead HD DVR HDMI but sound OK. Makes you wonder


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## LarryInAz

I received my 3rd HR10-250 replacement today. By the time I got it installed and called Directv to register the new unit and disable the defective unit it was 11pm Az time. The CSR said the system was down for "scheduled maintenance" for several hours.
I went to the Directv.com web sight and looked for a link to register a receiver online and could find none. There is a link labeled "Add or Replace Receiver" which sounds like it would let me do what I need to do. However when clicking on that link it only gives you the option to order new equipment online not enable a receiver already on hand.

Am I missing something? Is there a way to register a unit online?
I know I probably will have to call D* later to disable the defective receiver but I was hoping to get this one up and working tonite so I can setup my SP's, etc.


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## MichaelK

Used to. Apparently not anymore- they insist you call in. They think it will help thwart pirates.


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## twaller

HR10-250 HDMI failed right out of the box. Got my unit on 10-24-04. Using component connections with no problems.

HDMI connection is only green screen.
Is it worth trying to get a replacement from Direct TV.
Will I have to give up my unit while I wait.


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## obi1

I am no longer receiving email's notifying me of this thread's activity. This post is an attempt to re-establish.


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## HDMImaniac

My first hughes didn't work out of the box. my installer found it was the hdmi cable. I bought the unit from the good guys and immediately returned it. the salesman knew about the problem and told me that 1 out every 5 doesn't work. he replaced with new HD-tivo box and has worked perfectly now with HDMI for almost 2 months..... fingers crossed


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## HDMImaniac

btw-Tivonian: I purchased the Sharp Aquos 45" also and had similar problems with the HDMI. I returned it and got the Pioneer Elite Pro-1120HD 50". I am now running my Arcam DVD and HD-Tivo both from HDMI (Pioneer has 2 HDMI ports) and so far, everything has been perfect.


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## Chris Gerhard

twaller said:


> HR10-250 HDMI failed right out of the box. Got my unit on 10-24-04. Using component connections with no problems.
> 
> HDMI connection is only green screen.
> Is it worth trying to get a replacement from Direct TV.
> Will I have to give up my unit while I wait.


If you are certain the HDMI port is bad and you would like to use HDMI, I think it is worth contacting DirecTV to get the replacement. I don't know the current policy regarding replacement or if your HR10-250 HDMI problem would still be covered by warranty 6 months later but contacting DirecTV is free. I have used mine connected by HDMI>DVI and believe the picture quality is very slightly better than component with my Sony XBR910.

Chris


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## sixpak

My system worked perfectly for months. I have it connected to a SIM2 HT300+ projector. I am getting the bogus temp alarm shutdown when I connect the HDMI.

Everything works perfectly if I disconnect the HDMI and use component.The 3.1.5f software has been downloaded.

Is it possible that the new software killed the HDMI for my system?

Will a replacement unit work the sameway if indeed it is a 3.5.1.f problem?

Alan


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## dstott

New HR10-250 arrived this week for connection to my 50"Samsung DLP (DOA, but Samsung replaced entire light engine, so it's great!) HDMI DOA. Pixelization of menus and everything on Tuner 1. Seems to be Video 1's video processor as it affects both Satellite feed and OTA channels. D* gave me no grief and immediately processed a replacement. They issued me a transaction number and assured me the recovery kit would accompany the new unit. We shall see...


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## drjeckl

mintakaX said:


> That is the biggest bunch of crap I have read :down: Thats like saying you shouldnt buy an expensive car unless you are a mechanic--total BS.


It has been well documented in the first few pages of this thread (July-04) what the likely problem has been and the temporary remedy in order to avoid the replacement shuffle.

This box is simpler than a PC. It has one expansion slot, the HDMI slot. The card doesn't seat correctly. That's it! Do the workaround that was discovered by the guys on this thread or keep whining about D*.

I'm just as pissed off at D* as eveyone else is on this QA issue.

But really, man, chill. As you said, quoting AbMagFab "


mintakaX said:


> Wow, I didnt realize that you were taking this discussion so personally, even to the point of a personality judgement ("ego-centric"). This is just a video machine machine we are talking about isnt it ? I thought that we were just having a discussion, I didnt intend to make you feel so defensive about your tivo. Sounds like you really like it ! I'm happy for you .





AbMagFab said:


> Originally Posted by AbMagFab
> Yup, I'm using HDMI, as are apparently around 75% of people with an HD Tivo.
> 
> It's kind of ego-centric to assume, that since you had a problem, "most people" must also have had the problem, even though the poll in this thread says exactly the opposite. And to say there are additional chronic problems, when there aren't, kind of takes away some credibility.
> 
> But each to his own. Excuse me while I go and watch and enjoy beautiful time-shifted HD via HDMI.


I personally agree; HDMI is superior to component. Live with it or do something about it; D* ain't.

.jce


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## bertschb

Reseating the card doesn't fix the false overheat message. I've got that message on box#2 (older design) as well as box #3 (new design with properly seated card).

Other than that your advice is good.


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## MichaelK

bertschb said:


> Reseating the card doesn't fix the false overheat message. I've got that message on box#2 (older design) as well as box #3 (new design with properly seated card).
> 
> Other than that your advice is good.


curious -

is there an obvious physical differnce in the "new design" boxes?

I wasnt aware.


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## rmklaw

I am on my third one. The first two lost HDMI Video. The new one lasted 7 days and I just lost HDMI sound.


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## scrummie2

Just bought my unit - made in Mexico July 04 (I live in a smaller town and they haven't sold the first lot out yet). HDMI DOA. I'll exchange it eventually (bought the extended warranty)


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## obi1

Just installed replacement unit. HDMI hookup to my Mitz DLP tv functions ok except no audio when on HD programming either from D* or OTA. Have 250 set to dolby digital. Change to no dolby digital and I have audio on all programming. All works well when I direct audio thru my C1 Parasound Preamp, but of course this is receiving audio signal from 250 via optical cable. I guess someone(tivo or mitz) assume that if you have a HD TV and wish a HDMI connection, that you will be watching your HD programming with no audio or if you wish audio, that you will disable dolby digital in your 250. So for now I will be switching back to component(all is well everywhere with this) until I get a solution from the miscreants responsible for this fiasco. No, hooking up analog rca cables from my 250 to the HDMI composite audio inputs on Mitz tv does not give me sound on the tv when dolby digital is selected and am tuned to a HD channel.


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## rmklaw

For the first week with this unit (3rd one) both audio and Video HDMI worked perfect with HD channels. All of the sudden the sound quit through HDMI. Works through optical. Bad HDMI interface card I guess.

Anyone knows if there is a compatible HDMI interface replacement card?


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## bertschb

MichaelK said:


> curious -
> 
> is there an obvious physical differnce in the "new design" boxes?
> 
> I wasnt aware.


Yes, they changed the way the HDMI card connects to the MB around the first of the year. I removed the cover on unit #2 and unit #3 (made Jan 2005) and they are different. I think somebody posted pictures here a few dozen posts ago.

It didn't matter for me. I still get the false overheat message after about 10 days of use.


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## MrCoolDu4

I feel your pain. I went thru this crap myself and finally gave up in September of last year after 3 dead replacement units from DirecTV. I used to check this forum everyday but it became so time consuming I finally had to move on. And I too have mistakenly gotten charged the $1000 by DTV for a unit I returned. Save your FedEx receipts!!! I became so frustrated that I gave up and have been living with my component output ever since. Well now my warranty is about to expire and I am ready to try and get some satisfaction. 
Is it at all possible that these updates have restored my HDMI ? I've always thought that was simply an excuse on DTV's part to avoid having to replace all these dead units and buy more time. I suppose I'll have to plug it back in before I make the call.
As I said my warranty is about to expire and thats what has motivated me to pursue this again. Another option for me is that I originally purchased this unit from CC and the other day I got extended warranty papers in the mail. Im thinking $79 for another years coverage would be worth it if I could take it there and dump it on them. And Id switch to Comcast if it werent for the fact that I have a lifetime Tivo subscription with DTV.


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## obi1

obi1 said:


> Just installed replacement unit. HDMI hookup to my Mitz DLP tv functions ok except no audio when on HD programming either from D* or OTA. Have 250 set to dolby digital. Change to no dolby digital and I have audio on all programming. All works well when I direct audio thru my C1 Parasound Preamp, but of course this is receiving audio signal from 250 via optical cable. I guess someone(tivo or mitz) assume that if you have a HD TV and wish a HDMI connection, that you will be watching your HD programming with no audio or if you wish audio, that you will disable dolby digital in your 250. So for now I will be switching back to component(all is well everywhere with this) until I get a solution from the miscreants responsible for this fiasco. No, hooking up analog rca cables from my 250 to the HDMI composite audio inputs on Mitz tv does not give me sound on the tv when dolby digital is selected and am tuned to a HD channel.


Upon further experimenting swapping cables around, it appears that my piece of %^$%^ Mitz(not the first time I have had problems with Mitz and their poorly engineered stuff) is the guilty party in my inability to play an HDMI audio signal thru the Mitz internal speakers when the 250 is set to dolby digital. I can go thru my C 1 Pre-amp using the optical cable from the 250 to the C 1, but an HDMI cable to the Mitz does not allow sound when the 250 is set to a HD channel. I can get sound when the 250 is set to non dolby digital(but do not understand why the 250 does not have a "both" option specified in their selection menu--yes I do know you get both when you select dolby digital but not down the HDMI cable-- like any half way clever engineer would have designed, but that is another story). I dislike Mitz TV's intensely, especially wastes of my time like this, their crummy pic in pic support(compared to Sony), their sloooooooooooooooooooooow tuner and poor customer support.


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## rmklaw

And.... to add salt to the wound, a replacement unit showed up at my door from D to replace the week old new unit from a dealer, but the shipment had an old refurbished unit inside, open box and beated up box. No wonder the units don't work on arrival. Needless to say, I did not want to touch it.


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## dstott

New TIVO arrived from D* today. So far, the HDMI is working and everything looks good. It was brand new in a perfect sealed box, made in Mexico and no date at all. When booted, it had the "E" software. The HDMI connection made my SD image quality much better. I hope the "F" upgrade doesn't kill it! Nobody at D* gave me any crap , at all, during the replacement process.


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## whsbuss

dstott said:


> New TIVO arrived from D* today. So far, the HDMI is working and everything looks good. It was brand new in a perfect sealed box, made in Mexico and no date at all. When booted, it had the "E" software. The HDMI connection made my SD image quality much better. I hope the "F" upgrade doesn't kill it! Nobody at D* gave me any crap , at all, during the replacement process.


My recent replacement unit also had no manf. date and made in Mexico. I left my phone line disconnected to avoid the "f" update.


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## obi1

Three days now waiting for Mitz techs to call me back. The several trainee techs that I spoke to at Mitz do not have any idea as the problem as I outline it is not in their canned scripts. Really annoying each time you call that you have to go thru who you are, what your address is, then your phone number(all this and you just went thru the same thing yesterday when you called and they already have all this personal info on their database) and then you must again relate the whole problem, wait for the trainee to talk to someone, get back to you and tell you that you are being "escalated". I was promised a call back from a development tech within 24 hours. Still waiting. Again, why I suggested that Mitz has among the worst support of home theatre vendors. Oh sorry some would say that D* has with their 250. Lost my head again.


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## KenW

Well, I just joined the club. My HDMI failed this week. I tried all the easy fixes, and then called. They are shipping a new unit on Monday. 

What a pain!


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## falz

obi1 said:


> Upon further experimenting swapping cables around, it appears that my piece of %^$%^ Mitz(not the first time I have had problems with Mitz and their poorly engineered stuff) is the guilty party in my inability to play an HDMI audio signal thru the Mitz internal speakers when the 250 is set to dolby digital.
> 
> I can go thru my C 1 Pre-amp using the optical cable from the 250 to the C 1, but an HDMI cable to the Mitz does not allow sound when the 250 is set to a HD channel. I can get sound when the 250 is set to non dolby digital(but do not understand why the 250 does not have a "both" option specified in their selection menu--yes I do know you get both when you select dolby digital but not down the HDMI cable-- like any half way clever engineer would have designed, but that is another story).


The HR10-250 does not put an audio signal over HDMI when it's set to DD + when the channel you are watching is DD- regardless of TV/receiver. You have to use the optical cable for this, no way around it. I tested this every way possible, and that's just the way the TiVo was made. Apparently the HDMI spec doesn't (didnt?) support DD 5.1 at the time. Rumors are that an HDMI spec supports it now, but I'm not certain of this.

--falz


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## obi1

falz said:


> The HR10-250 does not put an audio signal over HDMI when it's set to DD + when the channel you are watching is DD- regardless of TV/receiver. You have to use the optical cable for this, no way around it. I tested this every way possible, and that's just the way the TiVo was made. Apparently the HDMI spec doesn't (didnt?) support DD 5.1 at the time. Rumors are that an HDMI spec supports it now, but I'm not certain of this.
> 
> --falz


What surprises me(not the fact that the 250 designers play with less then a full deck) is that this has not turned into a bigger scandel. Seems that most 250 owners have not complained about it. Some have said that HDMI digital worked on certain model TV's. Friday afternoon at 3 pm I did receive a voice mail from Mitz(of course 3 days late and I had said to call me in the morning). The tech in his voice mail asked me to provide the make and model of my HD sat receiver that I was attempting to interface via HDMI. Perhaps he will be telling me that the 250 is indeed the culprit. I will post what I hear.


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## No Clue

Anyone with a JVC tv or projector that doesn't have a problem with the HDMI connection?
I have an HX-1 and have only had the HD tivo for a week. The first afternoon I had it, I watched about an hour of tv on it and played around with it. I turned the projector off and came back about 3 hours later and I had the high temp shutdown screen. I moved it to a different location in the rack that had some headroom and rebooted it. I then started to record a HD show and turned off the projector again. This time, it must have frozen up just after I turned off the projector as nothing recorded. It was completely unresponsive although I did not have the high temp screen this time. After another reboot, I checked the list of recorded shows and my show was listed but it said there was a recording failure. I unplugged the HDMI and started using component and haven't had a problem since. 
After coming here to read this forum, it is obvious that it is a compatibility problem. I haven't checked the software version yet. 
I bought it from Value electronics but I haven't called them yet and I'm not sure what my options are but this is disappointing to say the least. Certainly not worth the money.


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## jnangano

Yes, I just got a JVC 70G886 last Wednesday and needed to hook it up to an HR10-250 that I purchased in April 2004. I was a bit worried about my HDMI port since it was untested. Hooked it up and it works without a hiccup. The picture is fantastic and quite a difference from my old Mitsubishi RP (First Gen 1080i).

Have you gotten the "f" software update yet?



No Clue said:


> Anyone with a JVC tv or projector that doesn't have a problem with the HDMI connection?
> I have an HX-1 and have only had the HD tivo for a week. The first afternoon I had it, I watched about an hour of tv on it and played around with it. I turned the projector off and came back about 3 hours later and I had the high temp shutdown screen. I moved it to a different location in the rack that had some headroom and rebooted it. I then started to record a HD show and turned off the projector again. This time, it must have frozen up just after I turned off the projector as nothing recorded. It was completely unresponsive although I did not have the high temp screen this time. After another reboot, I checked the list of recorded shows and my show was listed but it said there was a recording failure. I unplugged the HDMI and started using component and haven't had a problem since.
> After coming here to read this forum, it is obvious that it is a compatibility problem. I haven't checked the software version yet.
> I bought it from Value electronics but I haven't called them yet and I'm not sure what my options are but this is disappointing to say the least. Certainly not worth the money.


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## rmklaw

I spoke with a supervisor from Level Two. They admitted that they had a memo on the subject of sound. The HDMI will not pass sound for HD channels when the H10-250 audio is set to DD. If the setting is changed to analog, it works.

The alternative is to leave the audio setting as DD and change the setting on the TV to analog. I did this in my Pioneer Elite and now I have digital sound through the Optical interface and HDMI sound in all channels to the TV set (in case the sound receiver is not turned on).


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## No Clue

jnangano

I haven't had a chance to check the software version yet. My unit will pass HDMI fine when I hook it up. The problem comes when I shut down the projector. for some reason, it causes the tivo unit to freeze up and it ignores all commands and does not pass anything at that point. I hope the f version fixes this. I will check it this evening.

thanks


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## No Clue

I had the old software version and forced a download of the new software. I had some recordings pending so I am too chicken to hook up the HDMI cable. I will at least try it over the weekend though and report back.

Steve


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## bob20544

*Have brand new 70" Sony Qualia 006, which worked on HDMI input for 4 weeks most of the time until yesterday, when it completely quit, and I had to switch to Component Inputs. HDMI is just plain dead on my HD TIVO.
Contacting Directv was a blast-spent over an hour and they hung up. I called back to a supervisor, and he said they needed to have their engineers research my problem on my set, and they might have an answer in 48 hours. They were not willing to send out a new TIVO unit until the engineers said to. I told him what I thought about their customer service, after 4 years of donating to their coffers.*


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## rmklaw

Don't settle for that. Call Level Two 1-800-695-9251 and ask for a supervisor. I had two replaced for the same problem with no hassle.


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## bob20544

Thanks for the response. I called back this morning and I have a new(I hope) TIVO on the way. They were much more accomodating than last night. DTV Graveyard shift sucks. They acknowledged a systemic problem they don't have an answer for, but are working on it.


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## biffstertim

"DTV Graveyard shift sucks. They acknowledged a systemic problem they don't have an answer for, but are working on it."

No kidding, but at least they admitted a problem when you called.

The braindead tech I was on hold with for 45 minutes tonight said it must be a problem with my TV, since "all units being shipped lately work." 

Riiiiight, lady. Should've come here first, since I didn't go to Level 2. Sheesh

And, BTW, I know about the component cables needing to be unplugged (which the tech never asked if I had done so) and I had two HDMI blades in my Panasonic plasma, and two cables, in the mix. My TV my a**!

Finally got someone to ship me a new one. Will try again for round two.


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## finaldiet

Connected HDMI to DVI on my Sony XBR to week old HR10-250. No problems. Son-in-law said I should hook by component because that was better, so we debated that. He also said Monster cables were best. I said a good set of cables would work just as well. Another debate! I figure everything is working great and to leave well enough alone!


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## MichaelK

Sounds like your daughter married a winner

bummer...


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## CCSrepair

CCS Corporation is now offering repair of the HDMI module. It ain't easy, but when it is fixed it is fixed.


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## jlib

CCSrepair said:


> CCS Corporation is now offering repair of the HDMI module. It ain't easy, but when it is fixed it is fixed.


Wow! I actually would rather pay a hundred bucks and send in just the HDMI module for a fix (assuming it really is permanent) than play warranty roulette with DirecTV. How did you discover the exact nature of the problem? Will it run in the interim without the card?


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## CCSrepair

Yes, they run fine without the board installed. We don't really see the forum as a means of advertising, but yes, when we fix them they should stay fixed. The nature of the problem was very illusive and the fix is all but impossible for the average Joe to pull off. Specialized equipment is needed to achieve the repair. Hence, $100


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## Ted101

I have a post Jan 2005 HR10-250 connected to a Sony Qualia 006. The HDMI output became "posterized" after the "f" download. After the usual Direc TV dance, I got a new Hr10-250 last week and disconnected the phone line after setup to avoid the "f" activation. So far, so good. Does your HDMI card "fix" address this problem? How does it do so?


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## CCSrepair

So far, we do not agree that the "f" update is any kind of a problem. We see the Hard drives as having "issues". The HDMI card would also not be affected by revision of the software in the Tivo. The card is a standalone entity. It contains no field programmable code. Sorry if we are vague in our descriptions of our repairs actions, but you must understand that we are a privately held company. We work for ourselves and our clients. We do not tell manufacturers what they do wrong, nor do they offer to help us develop solutions. We have been doing this for 28 years. We are sure that over time, a few people will try our fix and then let the forum know the results. We post only because we see so many people with the problem.


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## bob20544

"I have a post Jan 2005 HR10-250 connected to a Sony Qualia 006. The HDMI output became "posterized" after the "f" download. After the usual Direc TV dance, I got a new Hr10-250 last week and disconnected the phone line after setup to avoid the "f" activation. So far, so good. Does your HDMI card "fix" address this problem? How does it do so?"

I also have a Qualia 006, and experienced the HDMI inop problem while my phone line was disconnected for three weeks. After the problem occurred, I updated the software thinkng it might be a solution, but didn't help. DTV is sending a new TIVO. 
Hard to believe that DTV can't find the solution, and an outside vendor can. It has to be costing them(DTV) a big bundle. They aren't dummies.


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## CCSrepair

At times, when the solution to a problem is to add individual care and experienced skill, the "automatic assembly" world we live in falls short. The economics of fixing things the way we do just do not work on a scale of tens of thousands of units. 

The sad reality is that it is likely cheaper for them to swap units till people give up on HDMI and quietly hook up their component cables. Look at number of units sold vs number of complaints. Poll results indicate a lot of people do not know whether there works or not. They do not use it.

Maybe the sadder reality is that a lot of very talented people have worked on the HDMI project and done an excellent job on their piece of the project and now are getting a "bad rap" on the product in the field. 

We suspect the next release of a HD PVR unit will not have the problem. Of Course, it might also not have the personality of a TiVo.


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## obi1

obi1 said:


> Three days now waiting for Mitz techs to call me back. The several trainee techs that I spoke to at Mitz do not have any idea as the problem as I outline it is not in their canned scripts. Really annoying each time you call that you have to go thru who you are, what your address is, then your phone number(all this and you just went thru the same thing yesterday when you called and they already have all this personal info on their database) and then you must again relate the whole problem, wait for the trainee to talk to someone, get back to you and tell you that you are being "escalated". I was promised a call back from a development tech within 24 hours. Still waiting. Again, why I suggested that Mitz has among the worst support of home theatre vendors. Oh sorry some would say that D* has with their 250. Lost my head again.


 I have called Mitz 3 times since my last post on this topic. I am always assured that a "real" tech will call me back(not the telephone answering minions that you get when you call in). So far no call back. Did get a new release of the Mitz software that I was assured 100 percent would fix my problem. No effect, except now when I turn on the TV it now goes to the cable tv input, instead of whatever input is was set to when it was turned off. I do not watch cable TV so is one more pain in the arse of this junk TV. Again the problem is that with HDMI cable hooked up, the Mitz will not play audio thru its internal speakers when my source material is either Hi Def or Dolby Digital. This is if I have my 250 set to Dolby Digital output. If I set it to non digital output, the Mitz will play audio on all selected sources, but then my Parasound C1 Preamp only receives a PCM signal and therefore when on C1 I get no Dolby Digital. Mitz support is among the worst I have ever experienced in electronics, whether home theatre or computers.


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## bob20544

Well, I got my new replacement HD TIVO to replace my HDMI dead one, and DTV couldn't activate it. After 2 hours and 3 techs., they decided I must have a bad H card and are sending a new one. They then reactivated my original one, and I'm back on air on Component Outputs. They claim the HDMI problem is an intermittent internal HDMI connection, and it was fixed in Nov. 2004. 
Interesting, my new Mex. unit does not have a manu. date like my old Mex.one has. Wonder why-could be recycled units are being remanufactured without a date? DTV has to be doing something with the HDMI problem units.


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## bluedog68

First unit: HDMI failure after 1 month.
Second unit: HDMI failure upon arrival.
Third unit: HDMI failure after 6 months.
Fourth unit: Dead on arrival.
Fifth unit: Pending arrival.


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## pooster

Got my HR10-250 about a month and a half ago with no problems although I only had it hooked up through component cable and not HDMI. Had my new TV delivered from CC today and there is absolutly no video through the HDMI output to my sony KDF-55WF655. Component works fine but no video through the HDMI. Thought it was my tv at first and then I read in the instructions that if the HDMI cable is plugged in there is no output on the component. Well there is still video out on the component even with the HDMI plugged in so my guess is that my HR10-250 isn't even recognizing that the cable is plugged in. Called DTV customer service and the the level two tech told me that they have been having lots of problems with the HDMI outputs on these units (at least their not trying to hide it or give you the run around anymore). They are sending me out a new unit and I should get it soon. I wish I could just bring it back to BB and exchange it but it has been over thirty days. So to the best of my knowledge it is the reciever and not my tv. The only reason I'm a little unsure is because the tv is brand new and I don't have any other device with and HDMI or DVI output to test the HDMI input on my tv but since so many people have been having problems with theres and the instructions say there should be no video output on component if HDMI is plugged in then I think its the reciever. Can anyone verify for me that there is no video output on component when HDMI is plugged in. Just trying to verify that its the reciever and not the TV. Let me know what you guys think the problem is with, the reciever or the TV. Thanks. Just to let you know there is absolutly no output to the screen at all through HDMI, blank screen.


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## kimsan

pooster said:


> Can anyone verify for me that there is no video output on component when HDMI is plugged in.


When outputting 480p or higher, there will be no component, svideo, or composite if and HDMI/DVI connection is recognized.

At 480i, everything BUT HDMI/DVI will be enabled.

At 480p/720p/1080i, you'll get HDMI/DVI (if recognized) OR component.


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## ArtGuy

I have had four DirecTV HR10-250 units (with TiVo) since last August, all failures related to HDMI. I might have had more units fail but I used the component cables while I was waiting for a software upgrade which had been promised but I now think that"fix" was for something else. (I do have the latest software upgrade.)

Yesterday I spoke to a DirecTV "HD" tech person. She suggested I return the unit to Best Buy and to purchase something else. In other words, they had no fix. I am using a Sony 51" HD TV. I assume this unit MUST work with something else they would have pulled it off the market by now. 

ArtGuy


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## ArtGuy

Pooster, Best Buy will take back or exchange a HR10-250 t that doesn't work well after 30 days. I know, I've taken back three units so far that had the same problem you're having. Tomorrow I take back my 4th unit.


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## ArtGuy

My failures were the DVI-HDMI connections.


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## pooster

I also have reaon to think its my tv. One of the reasons I thinks its the tv is because after more testing I realized that the composite sound inputs (the red and white rca's) didn't work for the HDMI input on my sony tv either. They have optional sound inputs for the HDMI input in case you are using a dvi to hdmi cable. With no hdmi cable plugged in the sound didn't work either. The sound worked on the other six inputs for my tv but not the seventh which is my hdmi input. I called circuit city and they are bringing me a replacement tv today. If its not the hdmi input on the tv the sound inputs should still work so that is why I'm getting the tv replaced. I would take the reciever back to best buy but I have already called dtv and they have already shipped me a new reciever that I should get monday. It just sucks that you spend all this money for products that don't even seem to work as they should. I wish I had another HDMI device to try on my tv but oh well. The guys at circuit city should have made sure it worked before they left but all they had to say about the hdmi input not working is there must be some setting I need to change. After going through both manuals there is no setting to change, it simply didn't work. I will let you know if it is my tv because they are supposed to be bringing me a new one in two to three hours from now.


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## pooster

It wasn't the tv its the reciever.


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## jpretguy

No picture on my Toshiba 32" LCD HD flat panel. I used the HDMI/DVI

cable supplied with the HD10-250. Component connection works fine.

Purchased in Dec. 2004.


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## AZJimbo

Finally had a chance to pull everything out of my entertainment center and hook up to HDMI. It worked, however I did not find the picture to be as bright and detailed as it was when it was hooked up via component. Hummmmmm.

Naturally I went right back to component and I love the picture.

Makes me wonder if the cable supplied with the HD Tivo is poor quality, or the Sony XBR 800 has a poor interface, or HDMI is over hyped.


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## SleepsWithRemote

No Clue said:


> I had the old software version and forced a download of the new software. I had some recordings pending so I am too chicken to hook up the HDMI cable. I will at least try it over the weekend though and report back.
> 
> Steve


I am waiting for your report on how your HDMI setup is working. I am running a JVC DLA-HX1U D-ILA Home Theater Projector and I am on my seventh HR10-250 from DTV since I purchased it from them on Feb. 2005. I have been having the same problems that you are experiencing.

I am now trying another approach to solving the problem. I will let you know what I find out.


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## biffstertim

Got my second HR10 from D* yesterday, and now the HDMI port is alive. 

BUT: the TosLink output won't pass a lockable signal reliably when the HR10 is set to pass Dolby Digital through!

Number 3 is now supposedly on the way. 

Geeze, this is fun. When do I get my free swap-out for an MPEG-4 box, again?


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## pooster

I got my replacement reciever from dtv yesterday and the hdmi output is working fine for now. Of course it has only been hooked up for one day so I will have to wait and see if it stays alive or not. I will post back to let people know if it goes out or not. 

Biffstertim, your problem sounds unique. My reciever passes the dolby digital through the HDMI and the toslink at the same time. Did your last reciever pass dolby digital through the toslink? That really sucks that you got a new reciever and the hdmi output works but not the toslink.

I was also looking at best buy's website and the hr10-250 has dropped in price down to $699.99. Of course this happens about forty five days after I bought it for $999.99 but what are you going to do. It also makes me wonder if hughes or somebody else is going to come out with the second generation HD DVR. I was kinda waiting for the second one but it took so long (I know this one has been out well over a year) that I decided to go ahead and get it. I'm betting the second generation one will fix this wide spread hdmi output problem and also address other problems as well. If a new generation does come out and my HDMI output goes out I am definantly going to try to get them to swap out the new one for the old. Who knows if they will let you but its worth a try. If anyone has any info on wether or not there coming out with a second generation HD DVR please post it here.


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## biffstertim

pooster said:


> Biffstertim, your problem sounds unique. My reciever passes the dolby digital through the HDMI and the toslink at the same time. Did your last reciever pass dolby digital through the toslink? That really sucks that you got a new reciever and the hdmi output works but not the toslink.


Third time was a charm (knock on wood).

The third unit arrived via FedEx, and the HDMI works and the TOSLink optical out isn't muting any more. Hurray for QC.

I still must think about calibrating the HDMI input on my monitor, but so far, I see some subtle difference versus component. Initially, I feel there's a more 3-D feel to HD material, and MPEG artifacts are more apparent in SD D* programming. But that's just an initial guess.

One interesting tidbit: On my Panasonic plasma, if I switch to a HD channel while in 480p mode on the HR10, I can see that the colorspace might be a bit different. Things seem a bit bluer -- this is easily seen in the grey "blank" screen the TiVo has while briefly setting up the channel and buffering.

480p looks fine on SD material. I usually switch to 480p on the HR10 while watching SD programming, so that I can watch using the "Just" mode on my plasma (which isn't available in 720p on up)


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## Garyh243

I purchased my HR-10-250 in mid april 2005. I've had it for about five weeks. It worked fine until yesterday May 26. I get what I call a posterized image thru the HDMI connection. I guess you could call it a negative image. Works fine with the component connection. 

I called D*, talked to three different techs and one supervisor. They finally offered to replace my unit with a refurbished unit. They refuse to send a new one. I paid $900 for this unit in April from Solid Signal (yea, I know) and they say the first years warranty is by the manufacture; their 5 year warranty does not kick in until after the first year. 

I bought a new unit 5 weeks ago and it will be replaced by used or refurbished unit. This is unacceptable on a high end piece of equipment like this and D* should be ashamed and I am pissed.


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## nmarrion

Well I joined the club of HD Tivo owners who have experienced a HDMI failure. Unit works fine on the component outputs.

To DirecTV's credit I was immediately transfered to Tier 2 support who after they confirmed I have the latest software have arranged for a replacement unit to be Fed-Ex's to me.

Now let's hope the next one is better. My unit was manufactured in Nov 2004 in Mexico.


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## TomRaz

Okay I finally couldn't resist the urge to get D* and go with a HD Tivo. So I went down to my local BB today and purchased a HD Tivo. 

There were 3 HD Tivo units on the shelf and I looked at the service numbers etc on the bar codes and picked the one that appeared to have the newest or highest numbers.

There were no dates on the outside of the box. I got home opened it up and my unit was made November 16th 2004  

I know the ones produced after November 21st are suppose to contain the fix. I went ahead and hooked up the unit to my OTA using the hdmi port and so far so good. 

So should I take this unit back to BB and attempt to get one that was made in Jan 05 or greater ?

Or should I sit tight and wait ?


I would appreciate your opinions 

The other thought I had was perhaps my local BB just has a bunch of older stock and doesn't have any newer units.

Please let me know.


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## obi1

TomRaz said:


> Okay I finally couldn't resist the urge to get D* and go with a HD Tivo. So I went down to my local BB today and purchased a HD Tivo.
> 
> There were 3 HD Tivo units on the shelf and I looked at the service numbers etc on the bar codes and picked the one that appeared to have the newest or highest numbers.
> 
> There were no dates on the outside of the box. I got home opened it up and my unit was made November 16th 2004
> 
> I know the ones produced after November 21st are suppose to contain the fix. I went ahead and hooked up the unit to my OTA using the hdmi port and so far so good.
> 
> So should I take this unit back to BB and attempt to get one that was made in Jan 05 or greater ?
> 
> Or should I sit tight and wait ?
> 
> I would appreciate your opinions
> 
> The other thought I had was perhaps my local BB just has a bunch of older stock and doesn't have any newer units.
> 
> Please let me know.


It is somewhat like playing Russian Roulette with 5 bullets in the gun instead of only 1. How lucky do you feel, as Mr. Eastwood would say. Worst case, you will still be happy with component connection if HDMI does not function properly.


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## Jim Golden

My second TIVO started having problems yesterday. The first TIVO's hard drive crashed. My second TIVO appears to be having HDMI problems (all blue picture).

The first DirecTV consultant I talked to last night said "that it was a known software problem, and I should just use the component inputs until the "glitch" was fixed." I asked "if they would replace the unit since it was less than 6 months old." He said "they wouldn't replace a unit merely because of software problems." I said that the stated position doesn't seem to agree with the warranty listed in the manual." He disagreed, so I said I would review my warranty and call back if I didn't find the language he was refering to.

So, I reviewed my warranty, and didn't see the qualifiers for unit replacement that the CSR mentioned. I called again and this time, got my replacement I.D. without hassel.

All in all this was a very frustrating experience. I feel as though DirecTV deliberately tried to talk me out of a legitimate product replacement request.

Jim


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## BaronKen

TomRaz said:


> Okay I finally couldn't resist the urge to get D* and go with a HD Tivo. So I went down to my local BB today and purchased a HD Tivo.
> 
> There were 3 HD Tivo units on the shelf and I looked at the service numbers etc on the bar codes and picked the one that appeared to have the newest or highest numbers.
> 
> There were no dates on the outside of the box. I got home opened it up and my unit was made November 16th 2004
> 
> I know the ones produced after November 21st are suppose to contain the fix. I went ahead and hooked up the unit to my OTA using the hdmi port and so far so good.
> 
> So should I take this unit back to BB and attempt to get one that was made in Jan 05 or greater ?
> 
> Or should I sit tight and wait ?


I just bought mine from BB less than 2 weeks ago. Mfg date 30-Sep-04.
I bought the 4 year service plan for $100. I feel that for a device that some people have had to replace up to 4 or 5 times, the service plan is well justified. If something breaks, just take it to BB and get a new one, no hassles. Plus, if it does manage to get replaced by D* when the Mpeg4 transition occurs, I can cancel the service plan and get a prorated portion back.


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## scab

The HDMI output failed on my HR10-250 after only 3 days! The HDMI connection was working fine until the off-air antenna installed. When the tech installed the off-air antenna - POOF! Until I read the posts on this site, I would have sworn the tech damaged the unit. Now I'm not sure. I could get the component video to work, but there is no way I can pay that much $$$ and not have it work properly with HDMI.

Have other tried to get the component video to work after the HDMI option has failed??

I did read in the manual that there is an internal "switch" that prevents both component video and HDMI output from working simultaneously. Conceivable, there could be something wrong with this feature.

I am returning my unit to Circuit City for replacement today!


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## wje

The HDMI port on my first unit failed a week after I got it (Christmas). After a lot of arguing, I got DTV to replace it. Lasted almost 5 whole months this time. Turned it on today, the screen went green, then technicolor, then dead... classic HDMI problems. This time DTV didn't give me any argument, and claim a new one will arrive Tuesday or Wednesday. We'll see.


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## acampo

Is it really that much better than component? mine failed and i have been happy with component. its not like digital sound is coming through at this point......


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## wje

For me, it's very slightly better. Usually it isn't noticeable. It really depends upon how your set handles HDMI vs component. I use HDMI for two reasons: 1) one small cable instead of three big coaxes, and 2) I paid a lot of money for the 250, and it should work. The fact that the box has a design flaw (supposedly since corrected) shouldn't mean that I should have to just ignore it.

A secondary issue with me is the very poor way DTV treated me (and many others) that had this problem early on. If you're not familiar with some of the history, there's plenty in this and other threads. If they're going to be jerks, I'm certainly not going to cut them any slack. My attitude wasn't improved by DTV announcing that my $1000 recorder wasn't going to be able to handle any of the new HD channels from the new satellites. So, I get to record endless reruns of the same junk on HDNet?

Probably more than you wanted to know.


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## Jim Golden

> Is it really that much better than component? mine failed and i have been happy with component. its not like digital sound is coming through at this point......


Funny, I feel the same way.... I think I like component picture better. It's not as sharp, but it also doesn't have the digital "noise" on SD channels that the HDMI had (at least not on my DLP TV).

Still, I paid for a unit with a working HDMI and as the previous poster said "I want a working unit." If nothing else, just in case I decide to sell the box in the future.

I called in for my replacement last week and still haven't received it.

Jim


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## RichsSat

Out of the 20 or so I attempted to install using the HDMI output, about 15 of them had some kind of issue (no image, serious red push, strobing image). Just yesterday I gave the HDMI a shot on a Runco projector and after about 2 minutes the HDCP kicked in and would shut the image off every 30 seconds or so.

I have given up, I just hook them up via component video now.

D* REALLY needs to address this issue. People are paying a pretty good chunk of change for these units and I think it is just insane to see this high of a failure rate.


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## nmarrion

Well it is now 8 days since I DirecTV were supposed to have sent me a replacement box...and it's still not here!

I have made numerous calls, that I will not bore everyone with the details of, but it looks as though it will be a few days yet before I get the replacement box.

I am a strong advocate of DirecTV, but this experience is seriously changing that.


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## Nalez

Has anyone done the HDMI board repair for $100 mentoned several pages back? How are the results?


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## Jim Golden

> Well it is now 8 days since I DirecTV were supposed to have sent me a replacement box...and it's still not here!


I had/ have the same problem. After talking to three different CSR's I was told that they will "overnight" a replacement to me tomorrow. I wonder if they're out of stock?

Jim


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## No Clue

SleepsWithRemote said:


> I am waiting for your report on how your HDMI setup is working. I am running a JVC DLA-HX1U D-ILA Home Theater Projector and I am on my seventh HR10-250 from DTV since I purchased it from them on Feb. 2005. I have been having the same problems that you are experiencing.
> 
> I am now trying another approach to solving the problem. I will let you know what I find out.


Sorry it took me so long to get back but I am still having the same problems with the HDMI connection. As long as I only use the component connection, everything is fine. If I use the HDMI connection, it will lock up almost as fast as I turn off my projector. Definitely some sort of conflict issue between the JVC and the HR10-250. I haven't tried to replace it because I have no reason to think the next unit would work.


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## nmarrion

My replacement HR10-250 showed up today and the good news is that HDMI works on this one.

The replacement looks to be brand new. No manufacturing date on this one. Does anyone know when they stopped printing that on the label on the back of the unit?

It came with "e" software, but updated to "f" when I made a daily call.


----------



## JackR

Have had my HR10-250 (#1 unit) with DirecTV since 9/22/04 with no problems. 
However, yesterday 6/11/05 the HMDI hookup stopped working. The picture looked like modern picture graphics. Switched over to the Green,Blue,Red wire hookup (composite I think) and the picture is almost as good the HMDI hookup. Called DirecTV and they are shipping a replacement unit tomorrow. Can't remember if the unit had a (Mfg date) but will look when I change with the new unit.


----------



## Jim Golden

Let us know if you get your unit. I've been waiting on mine since 5/29/05.

Jim


----------



## jfischer

ArtGuy said:


> Pooster, Best Buy will take back or exchange a HR10-250 t that doesn't work well after 30 days. I know, I've taken back three units so far that had the same problem you're having.


Wow. You've either got an unusal Best Buy there, or they're under orders from DirecTV to do this on the HR10-250. BB usually sticks quite hard and fast to their 30 day return policy on everything. 31+ days and you're generally SOL at Best Buy...


----------



## jeff125va

Just checking in on this thread for the first time in a while... Sounds like there's still no improvement in the HDMI situation? My first unit had no HDMI problem, but got the stuttering video problem after about 9 months, and my replacement failed out of the box. The component works ok but I'm planning on getting a DVD recorder and will run out of component inputs (DVD changer, XBOX and HD-TiVo).

Just wondering whether it's worth the hassle to try to get a replacement from DirecTV, swap out my additional HD upgrade which means losing all my shows and SPs, etc. Any recommendations?


----------



## Afergy

I also have a bad HDMI unit and was wondering is there a way to transfer all the shows I have saved if I get a swap out unit? This question might have been proposed already but forgive me I didn't want to read 1100 plus posts.


----------



## Cruzan

My new HDMI works great. 

Are people using cheap cables? Stay away from Monster!


----------



## JackR

JackR said:


> Have had my HR10-250 (#1 unit) with DirecTV since 9/22/04 with no problems.
> However, yesterday 6/11/05 the HMDI hookup stopped working. The picture looked like modern picture graphics. Switched over to the Green,Blue,Red wire hookup (composite I think) and the picture is almost as good the HMDI hookup. Called DirecTV and they are shipping a replacement unit tomorrow. Can't remember if the unit had a (Mfg date) but will look when I change with the new unit.


New unit did not show up today as promised. Call to CSR said that unit was never shipped because it IS on back order. CSR could not tell me how long await it would be.


----------



## Jim Golden

> New unit did not show up today as promised. Call to CSR said that unit was never shipped because it IS on back order. CSR could not tell me how long await it would be.


I've been waiting since May 29 th. My unit hasn't shown up either!

Jim


----------



## gadgetgrrll

My HDMI failed on a receiver I've had since August. This is the 2nd receiver they've sent to fix the HDMI issue. However, upon calling DirecTV, the first CSR told me that they could only send a refurbished unit. I escalated that up and spoke to a supervisor who said that new unit requests have to go through a separate ordering system so he couldn't give me a confirmation number but that he'd put a note that I'm requesting a new system. 

What I'm wondering now is whether they'll send a refurbished unit anyway. Does anyone know how I can tell whether it's factory new or not?

Thanks.


----------



## DonQijote

yesterday I installed my HR10-250 via HDMI to a Marantz VP12S3 DLP projector (110" screen)

After everything I had read here, I was concerned about using HDMI. Especially since I was going to use a 40Ft DVI cable with an HDMI adaptor. The units signal was immediately recognized by the projector. The Picture quality is simply AMAZING. Even SD signals seem to have improved. The Marantz PJ has a great video scaler!


----------



## JEFatCLT

OK...ran a search of the thread but wasn't able to find the info. Maybe someone can confirm for me.

Last night the signal from the HDMI output is causing intermittent (about 1 every 5 sec.) flashing with an accompanying horizontal bar (which contains video information) of varying widths in my display.

Are these typical symptoms of the HDMI failing?

Thanks for any input.


----------



## CorrysD

Kiss of death.

Yesterday, I viewed this thread, checking the latest posts and viewing the POLL results. Wham-Bam, my HDMI died last night after being flawless since I bought it at the end of January. It is a mid Dec build. I am tempted to keep the unit and switch to component, since there is no guarantee that this will not happen with a new unit. I hate the thought of losing my recordings. 

Has anyone out there kept their unit after an HDMI failure???


----------



## JackR

CorrysD said:


> Kiss of death.
> 
> Yesterday, I viewed this thread, checking the latest posts and viewing the POLL results. Wham-Bam, my HDMI died last night after being flawless since I bought it at the end of January. It is a mid Dec build. I am tempted to keep the unit and switch to component, since there is no guarantee that this will not happen with a new unit. I hate the thought of losing my recordings.
> 
> Has anyone out there kept their unit after an HDMI failure???


The above message started me thinking. I have 2 HR10-250 units. Number 1 unit has the HDMI failing and all the good recordings. Number 2 unit is working just fine. Is it possible just to inter-change the hard drives and save my recording on unit #1? 
If this question is in the wrong forum, I am sorry. 
Thanks 
JackR


----------



## obi1

Do not think you can simply do this. Perhaps a post in another area where the Guru's and God hang out will find you a solution. I believe hard drives are key'd to the machine. Of course you could burn DVD's of your recordings.


----------



## JEFatCLT

Well...talked with 2 techs and a supervisor who finally agreed that it was probably a faulty HDMI port. New unit shipping out Monday for replacement.

The only downside - the whole last season of Deadwood that I'm going to loose.

Crap....the unit has worked fine since last July when I got it and only started to fail a couple days ago.


----------



## wje

JackR said:


> The above message started me thinking. I have 2 HR10-250 units. Number 1 unit has the HDMI failing and all the good recordings. Number 2 unit is working just fine. Is it possible just to inter-change the hard drives and save my recording on unit #1?
> If this question is in the wrong forum, I am sorry.
> Thanks
> JackR


If your replacement unit has the same style HDMI card, just swap the cards. I've done that successfully, but only because D* keeps sending me replacement units with the same, flakey, old-style HDMI card. The problem seems to be on the card itself, not the main unit, and really behaves like either a trace failure on the board or a pad bonding problem, so if you do the swap, wiggle the board around a little bit to be sure it isn't ready to bite the dust, too.


----------



## Buckeyes69

Right out of the box my picture looks like its painted in 16 colors? Looks good with the components...I called DirecTV and she said it was probably a cable issue, that the cables were very "touchy". Now I'm beginning to believe it is something else.


----------



## JackR

JackR said:


> New unit did not show up today as promised. Call to CSR said that unit was never shipped because it IS on back order. CSR could not tell me how long await it would be.


Unit received today (6/21/05). First thing I noticed was it was stamped "Remanufactured" . However set it up and call D* to activate. Unit kept locking up when trying to change channels. Re-booted twice and still same thing. CSR said he thought unit was defective (Da). Transferred call to HD tech department. CSR in this department said I should have received a "NEW HR10-250" only since my unit was still under warranty. CSR warned me to return the original unit that was defective and sit on the new unit that is defective until a NEW unit is shipped to me. Make sure Directv receives defective unit back within 7 days or my account will be charged $1000 (again). All ready happened once and took about 3 months to correct account. 
CSR could not tell me if NEW HR10-250's were in stock or on back order. Will have to drag my bedroom unit into the living room for awhile.


----------



## JackR

JackR said:


> Unit received today (6/21/05). First thing I noticed was it was stamped "Remanufactured" . However set it up and call D* to activate. Unit kept locking up when trying to change channels. Re-booted twice and still same thing. CSR said he thought unit was defective (Da). Transferred call to HD tech department. CSR in this department said I should have received a "NEW HR10-250" only since my unit was still under warranty. CSR warned me to return the original unit that was defective and sit on the new unit that is defective until a NEW unit is shipped to me. Make sure Directv receives defective unit back within 7 days or my account will be charged $1000 (again). All ready happened once and took about 3 months to correct account.
> CSR could not tell me if NEW HR10-250's were in stock or on back order. Will have to drag my bedroom unit into the living room for awhile.


Another unit received today(6/28/05). This unit is also "Refurbished". Second time this has happened. CSR today said they will ship a NEW unit right away. Meantime, I activated refurbished unit and will use until NEW unit arrives. Any guesses on how long I'll have to wait?


----------



## rogue5

Hey JackR,

Did you ever get my email about the HDMI cards?? I never heard back from you.


----------



## JackR

rogue5 said:


> Hey JackR,
> 
> Did you ever get my email about the HDMI cards?? I never heard back from you.


Yes I did, and thank you for the information. However the units that they sent me were refurbished and had much older mfg date (May,2004). The other was Sept.2004. my unit was Jan.2005, which I sent back right away.


----------



## rogue5

Sorry I couldn't help. I know how I felt when my card started acting up just before the Superbowl (and I am a big Pats fan!!), I was ready to fling the thing out the window. Hope you get a new working unit soon!


----------



## CCSrepair

The newest version of the unit (that we have seen) has a rectangle connector at the junction of the motherboard to HDMI board. The old connector was a "d" shape. The HDMI boards are marked as: "HUGHES HDMI CARD 1034054" or "HUGHES HDMI CARD 1035849". The xx849 is the newer board. We get better at fixing the older boards every day. Thanks to those of you who have given us the opportunity! By the way, the boards (old/new) are not interchangeable due to this connector change. To date we have not seen failure of the newer board. Nick @ ccscorporation.net


----------



## JackR

CCSrepair said:


> The newest version of the unit (that we have seen) has a rectangle connector at the junction of the motherboard to HDMI board. The old connector was a "d" shape. The HDMI boards are marked as: "HUGHES HDMI CARD 1034054" or "HUGHES HDMI CARD 1035849". The xx849 is the newer board. We get better at fixing the older boards every day. Thanks to those of you who have given us the opportunity! By the way, the boards (old/new) are not interchangeable due to this connector change. To date we have not seen failure of the newer board. Nick @ ccscorporation.net


Thanks for this information. I've made a copy for my file so that when (Or IF) I ever receive a NEW HR10-250 I can check that it has this modification.


----------



## JackR

JackR said:


> Another unit received today(6/28/05). This unit is also "Refurbished". Second time this has happened. CSR today said they will ship a NEW unit right away. Meantime, I activated refurbished unit and will use until NEW unit arrives. Any guesses on how long I'll have to wait?


7/1/05 NEW HR10-250 received today. Took cover off and checked for new HDMI connector. This unit still has the older HDMI connector. Activated this afternoon and everything seems to be working alright. Second refurbished unit will be returned as soon as Box and shipping papers are received. For your information, I had to asked to speak with a supervisor in advance tech unit. That was yesterday. He promised to send a NEW UNIT and NOT a refurbished, overnight FEDEX. Which he did. So - my problem of 6/12/05 seems to have been taken care of. I dread the thought of return credits for the 3 HR10-250 units not showing up on my account. Will worry about that tomorrow. Good luck to all.


----------



## Jim Golden

I received my 4th TIVO yesterday...I believe it's a refurbished one...how can you tell?

Also, thanks to Robert at Value Electronics for helping with my replacement unit. I never expected a company to come to the aid of an online customer seven months after they've made a purchase.

Jim


----------



## JackR

Jim Golden said:


> I received my 4th TIVO yesterday...I believe it's a refurbished one...how can you tell?
> 
> Also, thanks to Robert at Value Electronics for helping with my replacement unit. I never expected a company to come to the aid of an online customer seven months after they've made a purchase.
> 
> Jim


It should have a refurbished sticker on the back of the unit. Also on the shipping box. 
I also noticed that the refurbished units where shipped in a plain brown box. The new units are shipped in the original OEM box.


----------



## wje

JackR said:


> It should have a refurbished sticker on the back of the unit. Also on the shipping box.
> I also noticed that the refurbished units where shipped in a plain brown box. The new units are shipped in the original OEM box.


Is this always the case? My latest replacement came in a 'new' box, no refurb sticker. But, although the unit was in excellent condition, it had fingerprints in a number of places on the case. I've not seen this before with truly new units. And of course, keeping up D*'s excellent  customer service, the unit has the old-style HDMI board. You'd think after 3 failures they'd send one that will actually work.


----------



## JackR

wje said:


> Is this always the case? My latest replacement came in a 'new' box, no refurb sticker. But, although the unit was in excellent condition, it had fingerprints in a number of places on the case. I've not seen this before with truly new units. And of course, keeping up D*'s excellent  customer service, the unit has the old-style HDMI board. You'd think after 3 failures they'd send one that will actually work.


"7/1/05 NEW HR10-250 received today. Took cover off and checked for new HDMI connector. This unit still has the older HDMI connector. Activated this afternoon and everything seems to be working alright."

Hi Bill 
Just to confirm what you said about new unit and HDMI connector appears to be correct. 
Jack


----------



## Jim Golden

> Is this always the case? My latest replacement came in a 'new' box, no refurb sticker. But, although the unit was in excellent condition, it had fingerprints in a number of places on the case. I've not seen this before with truly new units.


The same is true for the box I received last week.

Jim


----------



## eswanborg

Just adding to the DOA list - picked one up on Friday (BB 50% off deal) only to get home and find the HDMI dead - component works fine and moving the HDMI connector caused it to flicker, but no solid picture - ever. Dead in the box. Now to try to get BB to exchange it without a fuss about the price they gave me.


----------



## TwinCityTVHound

Talked BB into the "coupon deal." Got it home, and HDMI output was DOA.

I was able to get a new unit that worked out of the box (knock on pixels) with only a raised eyebrow from the return-desk cookie.

So far, so good...


----------



## Brewster

Am waiting on my 4th unit in 2.5 weeks. All worked fine out of the box.
wake up every mourning to a meesage that the system over heated and had to shut down. Had to do a full system reset on this last one to get it to come up again. All other outputs on system work fine.


----------



## Brewster

Downloaded the lastest software patch for unit. stayed on all night as long as i leave my TV on. Don't want to do that every night.


----------



## elbodude

Mine was OK until last night. Bought unit in Jan '05. Add me to the club of dead HDMI. :down:


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## dvansoye

HMDI just failed 2 weeks ago. As with the others, component works. I narrowed down the problem by trying another cable as well as a 2nd DVI source. So, I knew it was the receiver. I just finished with a long call with DirecTV technical service. BTW, there phone number is 1-800-695-9251. After speaking with two agents, I ended up with "advanced technical support" and ordered a replacement. (The first agent told me specifically that they would not replace the unit for this problem. So, don't give up - just keep asking questions and you will be transferred to the next level of support.) It is suppose to arive in 2-5 days.


----------



## cigars71

Wish I had found this site before purchase.
Bought mine last night at BB along with a new Toshiba widescreen 26HF84A. 
Hooked everything up using the HDMI cable. Guess what. Nothing. Not even sound on the HDMI input. 
Went through a flurry of connection checking, powering down, powering up, tv settings checks. Still nothing. 
Didn't know, at this point, whether it was the tv or the hd tivo.
Went back behind there and hooked up the good ol' RCA cables to video 1.
Well, the hr10-250 is not totally dead. It works on RCA.
A quick call to tier 2 tech support had me believing the boxed hdmi cable was probably bad and I should take it to be tested at BB before proceeding further.
I was feeling inquisitive and not ready to give up on seeing some hd on my new set.
I then hooked the hdmi-dvi cable to my Samsung 47" dlp (sorry don't know the model number right off hand) to verify no hdmi signal. None.
I then hooked my Hughes HD receiver to my new Toshiba via the dvi-hdmi cable. Wow, what a nice hd picture on that little Toshiba!
Ok (I'm getting tired just recalling all this) then I thought I should try the component cables. There was no video signal there either. I unplugged the hd tivo and let it restart.
Eureka, hallehluja! Component connection is working during start-up.
Then...gone! Component video signal failed about 3 minutes into startup.
Called tier two again. Matt, I think. Put me on hold alot to confer with collegues. Told me they are waiting for a software upgrade, but, he has no idea when it might come out. Finally concluded it was doa.
Has anyone else had trouble with the component video output?


----------



## Lije Baley

If the HDMI blade was still plugged in the HR 10-250 will not output a component signal. Did you unplug the HDMI connection from the Tivo before checking for your component signal? (I know you saw it briefly on startup, but don't know if the HDMI connection also kills that view.)


----------



## robkap

Picture keeps going pink on new machine plugged through HDMI to Sharp Aquos. But here is question: when I switched resolution from 1080i to 720p, the picture fixed itself. 

If I go back to 1080i, everything turns pink. But 720p works fine. 

Has anyone seen this before? 

Should I just keep this unit and stay at 720p? 

Any input MUCH appreciated.


----------



## Shiba

Is everyone having this problem with the stock cables or does the problem exist with upgrading cables as well? Just a thought... mine was DOA as well so I switched to comp. cables and it works fine.


----------



## Hrunting

I bought an HR10-250 back in October of last year. A month ago, the HDMI went out going to my Toshiba DLP. I ordered the replacement through DTV (via the $8.00/mo fee). After some hooing and hawing, the managed to figure it had never been sent and ordered it from "some other department". The old one had the old HDMI connector. The replacement did as well. It's HDMI was DOA. I ordered another replacement and specifically asked for a new HDMI connector. The replacement took a week, but it has the new-style HDMI connector. I connected it up and HDMI works. The access card of the new one began with 0015.

From everything I've read, the new-style HDMI connectors fix the problem. Does anyone have any experiences to the contrary?


----------



## CoreyMD

I've had mine since May '04. HDMI just went goofy last week. It now recasts the image in irridescent colors when in use. 

I've switched to component and reprogrammed my remote, but the image is much softer and the colors less rich (IMO). I don't have an extended warranty or DirecTV protection so I'm just going to do without until the HR10-250's are swapped out for MPG4 boxes.

-Corey

EDIT: I had previously voted "No HDMI problems" in this thread some time ago since I thought my box was immune...


----------



## dem

CoreyMD said:


> I've had mine since May '04. HDMI just went goofy last week. It now recasts the image in irridescent colors when in use.
> 
> I've switched to component and reprogrammed my remote, but the image is much softer and the colors less rich (IMO). I don't have an extended warranty or DirecTV protection so I'm just going to do without until the HR10-250's are swapped out for MPG4 boxes.
> 
> -Corey
> 
> EDIT: I had previously voted "No HDMI problems" in this thread some time ago since I thought my box was immune...


Same story for me, except mine has gone flakey just this morning.


----------



## jeffro2

I have had my HD DVR for about 5 months with no problems... until yesterday. I am hooked up to a Benq DLP projector using the DVR HDMI output. Yesterday evening, when I went to switch from my normal TV to view HDTV via my screen/projector, the output was TERRIBLE! Brown, Green, pixellated splotches bleeding all across the screen. I tried all HD modes, 480P all the way up to 1080i, with no success. Rebooted the DVR, projector, no success. This morning, I unhooked the DVR from the HDMI to DVI input on my projector and hooked up my PC (using DVI-A) to test the projector. No problems, crystal clear, so I knew the problem was the HR10-250 HD DVR. All other DVR outputs are fine, video, S-Video even component; its just the HDMI output port that is screwed up. I just called Directv and they advised they would send me another unit in 2-5 business days, as my current unit was still under warranty. I guess that by now they are well aware of the problem. We will see if the new unit works, and if so, for how long. Good to see that Directv was willing to immediately replace the unit, but I do not look forward to re-programming all of my Tivo settings, and also trying to save all of the programming that I have build up in my list of recorded programs.


----------



## stumacdo

Add me to the list of HDMI Failure. Right out of the box, the HR10-250 that I bought on Friday's HDMI was not working, while component was ok. Returned to BB and after being hassled a little about the 50% off original receipt, was able to swap for a brand new one. Knock on wood, so far so good.


----------



## String

Ok. So it not just me. I just got the HDTIvo Unit as well as a Toshiba 34hf85. I had the exact same experiance. Down to the Tech telling me to have BB test my cable. erie.
Any way, Exact some thing. I get component signal during boot up, and then nothing. Not HDMI and not Component. 
My dad has the exact unit, and I know his works with his Sammy DLP on both HDMI and Component. I am going to take his and test it, and I'll let you know what happens.

One other thing that I got that you did not mention though it, I get and DTV box on my screen with the S-Video cable plugged in that states: Dont have the exact wording but something to the effect of "the HDMI input is restricted, please try another TV input". That just got me going.
Anyway, if you find something, let me know.



cigars71 said:


> Wish I had found this site before purchase.
> Bought mine last night at BB along with a new Toshiba widescreen 26HF84A.
> Hooked everything up using the HDMI cable. Guess what. Nothing. Not even sound on the HDMI input.
> Went through a flurry of connection checking, powering down, powering up, tv settings checks. Still nothing.
> Didn't know, at this point, whether it was the tv or the hd tivo.
> Went back behind there and hooked up the good ol' RCA cables to video 1.
> Well, the hr10-250 is not totally dead. It works on RCA.
> A quick call to tier 2 tech support had me believing the boxed hdmi cable was probably bad and I should take it to be tested at BB before proceeding further.
> I was feeling inquisitive and not ready to give up on seeing some hd on my new set.
> I then hooked the hdmi-dvi cable to my Samsung 47" dlp (sorry don't know the model number right off hand) to verify no hdmi signal. None.
> I then hooked my Hughes HD receiver to my new Toshiba via the dvi-hdmi cable. Wow, what a nice hd picture on that little Toshiba!
> Ok (I'm getting tired just recalling all this) then I thought I should try the component cables. There was no video signal there either. I unplugged the hd tivo and let it restart.
> Eureka, hallehluja! Component connection is working during start-up.
> Then...gone! Component video signal failed about 3 minutes into startup.
> Called tier two again. Matt, I think. Put me on hold alot to confer with collegues. Told me they are waiting for a software upgrade, but, he has no idea when it might come out. Finally concluded it was doa.
> Has anyone else had trouble with the component video output?


----------



## jon777

No problems so far. Installed 3 weeks ago.


----------



## tem

So I got the replacement today from this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=252118

And guess what ??? .... Bad HDMI !!

I of course called and got a support drone who tried to tell me that they "don't replace units due to HDMI problems". He basically put me on perma-hold so I hung up and called back. CSR roulette got me someone who agreed to send a new one.

The fact they D* is generally refusing to replace a defective product that is within warranty is despicable.

F***ing scumbags.

My chronology is as follows:

9/04 -- purchased
11/04 -- HDMI fails
11/04 -- unit #2 HDMI is DOA
11/04 -- unit #3 is OK
7/30/05 -- unit #3 hard drive fails
8/2/05 -- unit #4 HDMI is DOA
8/4-5/05 -- receive unit #5.


----------



## Kendog

I have installed about 25 HR 10-250s, and replaced all but three. I will rely on the component connection until DTV has a known fix. This "Russian roulette" replacement has cost me a lot of money and I'm no longer willing to take part in it!
DTV has failed miserably with this one!


----------



## rjseh

I just bought an HR10-250 from BB 2 weekends ago and I haven't had any problems with the HDMI port so far. I am now wondering if I should take it back to BB and purchase through D* so I can have more than the 30 days that BB is offering. Any advice on this one from any of you out there?

I went with BB because overall it was cheaper to go through them.

Please advise.

Thanks


----------



## tem

the warranty is 1 year regardless of where you purchased it.


----------



## hokey_days

My warranty on the HD tivo is ending this month.
In light of the major problems, I wonder if I should call and ask for a replacement? 
or just take my chances it never fails?

I guess my question would be, if it has worked fine for 11 months, am I good to go, or do I still run a high risk of an HDMI failure?

I am not interested in the "use component" instead.

Also, in light of Directv's announcement they are not promoting TIVO anymore, as well as Directv's decision to use MPEG-4 (HD TIVO uses mpeg 2), I am looking out for myself (Sad to say..I think Directv has ROYALLY f'd the early adopter crowd. We spent $1000 bucks for Christ sake!).

any advice appreciated.
thx.


----------



## Bill Milford

I got HD TiVo in April/May 2004. Just got set with HDMI -- guess what?

HDMI failure. If i flex the board it will work.

15 month old 3 months out of warranty. I guess I will just use component until they swap it out for something with MPEG4...


----------



## webpowered

My HDMI never worked. I thought of getting a replacement, but waited to see if people really got new ones that worked. I asked someone at DirecTV about it recently, and this particular support tech said they would only send a refurbished unit after 6 months of the warranty, not a new one. I suppose I could ***** and get a new one somehow, but the same tech said the big markets like New York and Philadelphia and others could be replaced with MPEG4 DVR's and compatible dishes as soon as December O5, so I don't mind watching the HDTV TiVo using component for a few more months. 

I wonder if the MPEG4 box will let people watch off-air locals the way the HDTV TiVo does? The tech didn't know.

I asked if the MPEG4 box would have the TiVo interface, and he said he heard it will.

He said all the locals in each market will be available on satellite in HD, and eventually most satellite channels (MAX, STRZ, TBS, etc) will be available HD too.

Still seems a waste to have paid $1000 for the HDTV TiVo that will be replaced in less than 2 years. I did get a $200 credit from calling the retention department last winter though.

Anybody have any comments about MPEG4 boxes and available channels, etc?

D


----------



## HoosierDaddy2000

I've had my HR10 for 2 days and HDMI is shot--totally pink picture that keeps coming back again and again. I'll call DTV tonight and see if they give me the run around.


----------



## tswon

My unit worked well since last December. I turned on the TV yesterday and got some strange blotchy colors (sort of like looking at a photo negative). While I was on hold with Directv, I hooked up the Component cables instead and it fixed the situation. The CSR said their engineer will try to address my HDMI issue in the future. They are not replacing the unit.


----------



## paulj

I bought one of the first 250s and the HDMI has been flawless until this morning, it is now pixelized, it looks like there are only 256 colors available, this is especially evident on flesh tones. Sometimes there's no picture at all. I took the DVI board out, the soldering looked reasonable except that few of the vias were filled. I tried filling the vias around the outside connector and reinstalled the board. This didn't seem to change much. By wiggling the board around I was able to change the video between totally gone, mildly pixelized, wildly pixelized and snowy. Even without moving anything sometimes the signal would change between these. I'm using the component cable now and contemplating my next step. I'm temped to give it to one of the girls at work and have her resolder it. Maybe I'll give DirecTV a call but I'm not excited about get a refurbished unit. Any other suggestions?

paul


----------



## hokey_days

hokey_days said:


> My warranty on the HD tivo is ending this month.
> In light of the major problems, I wonder if I should call and ask for a replacement?
> or just take my chances it never fails?
> 
> I guess my question would be, if it has worked fine for 11 months, am I good to go, or do I still run a high risk of an HDMI failure?
> 
> I am not interested in the "use component" instead.
> 
> Also, in light of Directv's announcement they are not promoting TIVO anymore, as well as Directv's decision to use MPEG-4 (HD TIVO uses mpeg 2), I am looking out for myself (Sad to say..I think Directv has ROYALLY f'd the early adopter crowd. We spent $1000 bucks for Christ sake!).
> 
> any advice appreciated.
> thx.


Just to follow-on to my post, I called Directv last Friday and advised them of my actual HDMI problem. The guy claimed I had a bad cable, so I told him to ship a new one. He said he had no way to just ship a cable, so I told him to ship a new unit, he said he could not do that, he then transferred me to a supervisor at my request. During the transfer, I was hung up on.
I went to Radio shack and purchased a new cable, and problem still exists (looks like I am only getting 256 colors, kinda like on Windows when it is not set at 16bit, but only 256 colors).
I will call again as my warranty ends in less than a week.


----------



## hammer32

Just got an HDTivo installed today. I have the HDMI cable hooked up to my Sony HDTV with HDMI in. When the TiVo starts up I don't see anything over HDMI until the screen that says "Amost there (just a few more minutes, or something like that)." When that screen goes off I get any further signals from the TiVo over HDMI (System Info reports none connected). Another TV hooked up to composite then shows the DirecTV logo'd screen detecting satellites.

If I restart the TiVo the same thing happens, HDMI works fine for the first screen, then stops working. It doesn't appear to be dead, just no longer detected after some part of the boot process. Unplugging and replugging the cable and wiggling it don't seem to have any effect.

If it was just dead I'd be happy with component, but since it works briefly after every reboot I'm in a troubleshooting mood  Anyone else have a part-time HDMI port?


----------



## hammer32

Downloaded 3.1.5f and restarted, same indications on the HDMI. Three hours later we're watching our first recorded progam (Garfield on HBOHD, in case you care  ) component goes out, switch video inputs to the HDMI and there's a nice crisp picture now...


----------



## Brewster

I have found that if i unhook the hdmi cable from the back of my receiver before i turn my tv off , it works fine. have 
not had a failure (over heating message on screen) in 6 weeks. DTV told me to buy a $250 cable to fix.


Hope this helps someone


----------



## hokey_days

Directv told me to buy a new cable too, I resisted at first but then went ahead and bought a $60 cable from the Shack. Of course this did not solve the problem.
I eventually got them to send a new one in warranty, after threatening legal action.


----------



## elshagon

The HDMI is DOA on mine as well. The installer will be back tomorrow or Monday to try another unit. Perhaps we'll try the firmware upgrade as well. Anyone who's had HDMI problems ever find a solution instead of constantly switching out for new units. I'll have to read thru the entire thread, but guess I'll contact directv just so they know I have the problem so when it happens again there's already a note on it. It stinks that such an expensive piece of hardware can't get their HD connections working properly. No wonder they're clearing these things out. Unfortunately I found this thread as I was going thru the install today or I may of had second thoughts.


----------



## henryld

Self installed my new unit last weekend with HDMI to DVI out to my Toshiba 42H83. Terrible PQ with red/pink cast and a photo negative like appearance. Switched to component out and all was fine. Unit upgraded to "f" soft/firmware during the week so I tried the HDMI out again today with the same result except the cast is now blue. What gives?


----------



## flamedog

Wow...I don't keep current on these threads all that much...thought I was the only one still tinkering with the HDMI to DVI issues. Just wanted to add my info.

I finally figured things must be fixed decided to get my HR10-250 that had the HDMI card get fried back in March of '05 swapped out.

I was hoping to be able to keep my programming by simply taking the good HDMI card out of the replacement receiver and swapping it into my existing receiver--as I had heard others here do successfully. Unfortunately somewhere in the last year the HR10-250's have switched over to a new motherboard with a different HDMI interface socket. So the cards could not be swapped. I don't know what the names of the different socket styles are but they are completely different.

So then I tried swapping the hard drives only to get the Error #51 so in the end I just sent back my unit with the bad HDMI card and my hard drives...figure the new drives might be better anyway???

So everything has been working just fine--watching mostly SD sources running mostly 480p to my NEC 42XM3. Also got retention to give me the 3 months of free Showtime including SHOHD and also the discounted HD package for 6 months (for my hassles).

Only problem...not sure what happened...starting this morning my Aspect ratio and output image sizes are all whacked out. The onscreen Tivo menus are chopped off on the right hand side and appear to have extra large "margins" on the right hand side. Then if you adjust the TV's screen size to fix the menus...the programming is all messed up...offcenter or uneven bars...all kinds of craziness.

Anyone else see this issue or know of a thread already started on it. Maybe I'll post a separate topic.

Anyway...wanted to put the info about the different hardware platform out here in case that hasn't been covered.


----------



## zzzzdoc

Just had my second unit fail. After working just fine for a number of months. 

DirecTV well aware of the problem. Asked if I wanted another unit sent without me asking first. Same 2-5 day answer as the others.

Wish I could change my vote on the poll.


----------



## MarkBarbieri

Unit installed 8/17. No problems.


----------



## vfzaman

Bought my first HR10-250 in Jan 05 (build date 9-12-04) at CC, worked fine until today when the picture went to a pink or green image that looks like a photo negative. Wiggling the cable connection to the HDMI port flickers with the corrected colors, but goes right back to the green or pink image when the wiggling ends. 

Bought my second HR10-250 in Mar 05 (build date 9-29-04) from Amazon seller, HDMI board/port was DOA. I called D* and was told my HDTV wasn't compatible yet and if I would wait a few months for the software upgrade it will work fine. Used component connection and assumed D* was correct about SW issue. Tested this HR10-250 HDMI port today on all 3 of my HDTVs, and found it was not functioning on any of them. Shame on me for believing D* on this!!

Called D* today and service rep, Damien, tried for approx 20 minutes to tell me how a software upgrade would correct both HDMI problems. I was patient but persistent, and finally when I explained how I work on building computers, installing operating systems and performing hardware and software upgrades, etc., he listened. I explained how I had carefully ruled out software issues by testing both units with a number of HDMI-HDMI and HDMI-DVI cables, connecting other HDMI devices to insure cables and HDTV HDMI ports were functioning properly, and connecting both HR10-250s to 3 different HDTVs, and he finally agreed to replace both HR10-250s. I will lose my precious HD content on both units, but hopefully I will get replacements with the newer HUGHES HDMI 1035849 CARDS with the rectangular connector at the junction of the motherboard, and will avoid further HDMI problems!!

I also bought a Hughes HTL-HD DirecTV Reciever in Sep of 04 (using the HDMI connector) which has worked flawlessly.


----------



## Jon65

I purchased my HD-TiVo back in March. I tried out the HDMI port when I first got it. Worked fine with my Sony 34XBR800. I then used component to take advantage of switching through my AVR. In June I got my tv calibrated, and decided to try out the DVI port to see how good it looked. Of course my HDMI output was "solarized" by that time. Instead of going through the motions with D* (arguing on the phone, getting charged $1000, arguing some more, losing my recorded shows, getting a new receiver that would then fail again, etc.) I decided to spend the $100 and go the CCS Corp. option. I sent my card out, got an e-mail when they received it, and in a couple days had it back again. Put it in my HD-TiVo and it has been working ever since. It was worth the money for me because I hate the hassle and frustration I would have encountered.


----------



## hammer32

Jon65 said:


> ...I decided to spend the $100 and go the CCS Corp. option. I sent my card out, got an e-mail when they received it, and in a couple days had it back again. Put it in my HD-TiVo and it has been working ever since. It was worth the money for me because I hate the hassle and frustration I would have encountered.


Jon65,

I haen't heard of CCS Corp before. Do you have a link for them?

Thanks!

-Sean


----------



## JackR

http://www.ccscorporation.net/


----------



## hammer32

Thanks!!


----------



## tkoenig

gotta make a post so I am above 5 to reply... Disregard.


----------



## tkoenig

One more, disregard...


----------



## tkoenig

JackR said:


> http://www.ccscorporation.net/


Does the service from CCSCorporation void the manufacturer/dtv 1 year warranty on these units?


----------



## ray man

I received my first HD Tivo exactly one week ago and the HDMI port did not work out of the box. The screen was pink and resolution looked like windows in safe mode. I've been running the unit through component with no problems.

They promptly sent a replacement unit in 2 days. This unit would not even power up! The next replacement will arrive tomorrow....what are my odds now?


----------



## dvr_guy

Has anyone used CCS Corporation for the HDMI port repair? Any success stories or validations to their claims?


----------



## elshagon

Third time try for install and once again the intermittent signal via HDMI. The installer said he'd just have to leave the unit and now I have to deal with directv over the issue. After talking to a tech I will try the firmware update, but doubt that does it. All units manufactured in Mexico. The tech says they can't/won't test the replacement they send to me, so guess it's receiver roulette for me. It's frustrating to get a directv install and be left with a defective unit and now it's my problem.


----------



## hammer32

dvr_guy said:


> Has anyone used CCS Corporation for the HDMI port repair? Any success stories or validations to their claims?


Not yet, but I may soon. I contacted them today for their instructions on taking the unit apart to remove the HDMI card. I've got a really long HDMI run (from the basement media room to an upstairs HDTV) and have an HDMI switch/repeater coming in tomorrow, if that doesn't help the HDMI signal then I'll probably send the card in. It's $100, but after the rebate and credit for an installer wasting a day of leave and showing up without a workorder or equipment I haven't spent anything on the unit yet anyway...


----------



## raaj

How the hell did this HD-DVR make it past the QC stage, with such widespread HDMI failure rates?? Considering the small but a very valid sample of D* customers that this community represents of the HR10-250 user base, I would consider that an unacceptable number of the HD-DVRs have problems with the HDMI port. Has anyone submitted a formal complaint to D* and Hughes ??


----------



## elshagon

The tech dept's giving me the runaround about a replacement for my newly installed receiver with the HDMI problem. They say "9 times out of 10 it's a compatibility issue with your tv" so that's the problem. I said "how can you say it's a compatibility issue with my tv without ever asking what kind of tv I have?" It's obvious from reading this forum that it's a hardware issue, what's it going to take to make directv realize this so I can get a new receiver? I'm tempted to try the receiver on other tv's with HDMI and report back to them and demand a replacement or ask to be refunded what I paid, and of course get out of the commitment I had to make with them when I bought it. Great price and all, it still isn't worth it if they can't give me one which functions properly out of the box.


----------



## jeffdoo

I have the same question, has anyone used CCS? Can you still use the unit without the HDMI card?

My replacement unit has been working fine for over a year (guess I got lucky) but just yesterday it started acting weird. A quick unplug/plug of the unit to reboot (first time in a year, it's on a UPS) resulted in the HDMI output being screwed up as everyone here describes. I could, for a little while, wiggle the cable and the picture returned to normal until this morning. Now I can't get the picture back to normal.

I assume DTV would charge me to replace the unit, any ideas on cost? The replacement unit just turned one year old on 8/26  ....

Thanks!


----------



## hammer32

I got a Gefen HD w/ Digital Audio switcher, with this in between my HDTV and HDTiVo the HDMI has worked for 24 hours, so it was probably just my cable length that was the problem (although this doesn't explain why the HDMI worked on boot during the "Almost there" screen and quit after that screen, unless HDCP doesn't start getting checked until then...). If I didn't need the switch it would have been much cheaper to go the repair route!



hammer32 said:


> Not yet, but I may soon. I contacted them today for their instructions on taking the unit apart to remove the HDMI card. I've got a really long HDMI run (from the basement media room to an upstairs HDTV) and have an HDMI switch/repeater coming in tomorrow, if that doesn't help the HDMI signal then I'll probably send the card in. It's $100, but after the rebate and credit for an installer wasting a day of leave and showing up without a workorder or equipment I haven't spent anything on the unit yet anyway...


-Sean


----------



## mikeny

jeffdoo said:


> I have the same question, has anyone used CCS? Can you still use the unit without the HDMI card?
> 
> My replacement unit has been working fine for over a year (guess I got lucky) but just yesterday it started acting weird. A quick unplug/plug of the unit to reboot (first time in a year, it's on a UPS) resulted in the HDMI output being screwed up as everyone here describes. I could, for a little while, wiggle the cable and the picture returned to normal until this morning. Now I can't get the picture back to normal.
> 
> I assume DTV would charge me to replace the unit, any ideas on cost? The replacement unit just turned one year old on 8/26  ....
> 
> Thanks!


You may get lucky and get a CSR who is willing to process the replacement less the shipping and handling $14.95. They were processing it in this way for me thinking that my unit was out of warranty until I explained that it was still under warranty, when she waived the s&h charge.


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## paulj

For those of you that are being told to wait for the software update, there is different H10 HD Digital Satellite Receiver (no TiVo) that has an HDMI problem that is fixed by a software update, there is a bulletin on this at DirecTV and they're confusing this with the HR10-250.

For those of you that are out of warranty, don't have an extended warranty and have still had your HD TiVo replaced can you tell me who your CSR was? I haven't found one who will do this even after checking with their supervisor.

paul


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## mikeny

Tiffany was going to process mine for s&h only because she thought I was out of warranty. It was for different issue.

I cant' believe they're giving you such a hard time over 5 days. That's harsh.


----------



## elshagon

They're giving me a hard time about sending me a new unit even though the installer verified it was DOA when he installed it on Monday. Directv said it's probably cable, tv compatibility, software etc...anything but the hardware. I told them I've switched out cables and tried it on other tv's, plus know people who have my tv and it works. I'll be back on the phone with them today. I'm trying to be patient, but when directv sends an installer who dumps off a receiver which doesn't work and tells you it's now between you and directv to get it resolved, then directv gives you the runaround it' a bit frustrating.


----------



## jeffdoo

DirecTV will ONLY replace my out of warrenty unit for $199 + $15s/h and an additional 2yr commitment.

To say I'm not happy is an understatement, but CCS has won my business and will hopefully be able to correct the problem DirecTV can't....

- Jeff


----------



## K_bueno

For those that are out of warranty: Are you talking to Customer Retention? The first level customer support is a crap shoot as far as getting what you want. I'm on my 3rd box and they never asked about warranty when replacing. It seems that when you get a unit replaced, you get another 12 month warranty??


----------



## jeffdoo

I thought about going doing the Retention Dept but I just don't have the time to waste with DirecTV, so they win and I'll take my repair business else where. I followed the instructions from CCS and just returned from the post office. Hopefully next week for $100 + $7 shipping/insurance (plus $1.65 in gas, about 1/2 gallon) I'll have a functional HDMI card.

I'm happy that Charlotte, NC isn't one of the top markets getting mpeg4 DVRs, I feel sorry for what those people are possibily going to experience. 

Now the decision is wether or not to buy another HD10-250 for the home office and its future flat screen (Xmas present). As of this incident I doubt I will buy another unit and instead move the Zenith 1080 between rooms. It's too bad DirecTV isn't handling this situation as nicely as they did the Zenith when they pushed a software "fix" that screwed up everyone's boxes.

And finally, I still don't think their protection plan is worth the cost. I'd have spent over $768 to date (8+ yr customer) if I signed up for that plan and gotten nothing back until today. Instead I'm spening about 1/7th of that possible cost and getting it fixed right (I hope).

I'll post back here when the card returns.

Thanks for reading the slight rant.....


----------



## jeffdoo

Well I spoke with Customer Retention today anyway, I have nothing to loose....

He immediately gave me a credit of $20 for the next six months which covers the cost of the 3rd party repair. Then I told him about wanting to purchase another for our home office and he immediately offered me the HD Tivo $299 deal w/$100 rebate (so it's $199 + $15 s/h .... and free install which I don't want...)

As K_bueno has suggested, just call customer retention directly....

- Jeff


----------



## prcannaley

Got my HR10-250 last Thursday with the "d" version of the software, and no working HDMI. Not being aware of this forum,I took D*'s word that the software upgrade would fix the issue.

After fighting the unit with my Vonage service for 4 days( a whole other epic battle) to upload the new software to allow the HDMI to work, it still didn't. D* promised to send out a tech this coming Tuesday to look at the HDMI problem. 

This morning the color is gone! All I have is blue and yellow. Made my 10th call to D* and they told me it would be better to have the retailer get me a new unit vs. the refurbished unit I'd get through the "protection plan". He wasn't aware of all the posts to this forum. My life has suddenly become a lot more complicated then easier with this great new unit. I'm likely to go back to cable and cut my losses.

My HR10-250 was made in Mexico in 11/2004.


----------



## tem

a unit from 11/04 is way old. new units don't even list the date/manufacture date. just take it back to the retailer and maybe buy their plan instead of D*. It's a whole lot easier that way.

(on my 5th unit)


----------



## Ein

Just got a new unit 2 days ago with the "e" firmware, the HDMI connector works. It was made in Mexico, but no manufacturing date.


----------



## mdryja

I've been a happy HD DirecTV Tivo owner for about a year, after our first unit was replaced with a second unit. We have been connecting via component video, but I finally purchased a HDCP DVI card for our Panasonic plasma. Hooked it up to the HDMI output of the unit, and:

1) Good news was that I did get a picture -- the HDCP "negotiation" worked.

2) Bad news is that the PQ is messed up. Besides the pink tint, the best way I can describe it is that it's like viewing a digital camera picture on your computer, and setting your computer to only 16 or 256 colors . . . somewhat cartoonish in nature.

Anyway, I first tried switching the HDMI card from our old unit into the new unit, but it didn't even give a picture.

I don't want to play the DirecTV game (calling them, asking for a replacement, etc.), so I just dropped off a package in the mail to CCS Corporation, for their $100 repair. If it works, I'll be a very happy camper! Supposedly, I should have my card back within a week from receipt by them. I sent it Express Mail, so it'll go out Tues, and CCS will have it on Wed.


----------



## kbohip

My HDMI works perfect so far after 2 weeks of heavy use . My HR10-250 was made in Mexico, but had no date on it. It came with the "e" firmware but later downloaded and installed the "f" firmware. I couldn't tell any difference between the two.

BTW, It took me 6 hours to download that firmware via Vonage.


----------



## cmassa

I received a replacement (refurbished) unit today for an HDMI failure. The HDMI on the replacement was DOA. It came with no cables except for power cord and a universal remote. I called and they are sending another one (another refurbished unit). The CSR said that if this one doesn't work he wants me to go buy another HDMI cable. Those things aren't cheap and I think it should be replaced by D* since it came with the original unit. We'll see what happens. My original unit has a manufacture date of August 2004 and the replacement was September 2004. Don't they test these things before shipping them out as fixed? I've reversed the HDMI cable and used different HDMI ports on my TV. It is loose at the HR10-250. Wiggling the cable in the back will sometimes bring back the picture. I can't seem to convince them to send a NEW unit. The CSR also told me that the replacements will only ship with the universal remotes, not the peanuts and that I can't get the peanut remote. My unit is 6 months old.

Chris


----------



## prcannaley

The "repair" guy showed up Tuesday and I explained the problem with the HDMI not working. He had no idea why D* had bothered to send him since there wasn't anything he could do about it! He also recommended I return it to the retailer for a "new" replacement. I will post a reply once I get the new unit and let everyone know if it works. Based on the problems I've had with the first unit, and the whole Tivo / Vonage issue I will probably cut my losses and sell the new unit on Ebay. VCR is a lot less trouble even if it doesn't record HD.


----------



## golfmade

Yikes, i'm really getting worried now. Have been using HDMI since last week and so far things are fine, but with all these posts I'm just wondering when it will fail now...


----------



## brick33308

If HDMI goes bad on the HR10, can you simply reconnect using the component connection - or once HDMI goes bad, is the whole unit FUBAR?

Also, does anyone know how the picture quality of the component connection from the HR10 is on a Panny 42 EDTV unit, versus the HDMI?


----------



## cmassa

Yes, you can just switch to component. On my Sony 55XS955 I can't tell the difference in picture quality. I'm one that bought my unit for $999 and its the issue of something non-functional on an expensive piece of technology that makes me want to exchange it. I expect something this expensive to work as designed.

Chris


----------



## prcannaley

The HDMI picture on my Samsung Directv HD receiver with my Sony TV is better than the component video, so I would expect the Hr10-250 to be better as well. Like cmassa said, paying that much for something and then have it not work is just wrong. Paying for the "protection plan" and having them send you a "refurb" unit is also wrong. I'm going to cancel that service as well. Once my units die I will likely just go to cable. The picture and sound quality isn't quite as good, but I had a lot less invested and they always came out and fixed what was wrong. Never thought I'd be thinking about going back to cable....


----------



## Bilbrey

OK, this is a huge thread, so please don't yell if this has been posted before...

I was able to 'fix' my HDMI output. My problem was the fine pitch connector that is on the HDMI board that connects to the main MLB. If you look carefully, you may see what I did - some broken wires. It seems that flexing the HDMI connector/board puts a strain on the connector to the MLB. At least in my case.

What I experienced was at first it seemed like a bad satellite signal. Seeing some decoder block failures every now and then (sort of like when it rains...). Then the video simply went out. I turned the unit off for a while (and it cooled down) and when I turned it on again, it worked... for a while. Then no video again. The other ports still worked (Composite, S-video), but I had to switch into 480i mode to be able to see video on those ports.

Anyway, I figured (correctly) that it was the HDMI board that was having the problem. If it were the decoder, then the other video outputs would be dead too. So I removed the HDMI board and looked at it under a 50x microscope and saw that some of the fine pitch wires to the MLB connector were simply disconnected.

So, under the microscope, and with some fine pitch soldering tools, I soldered the wires to the connector. And... success, the HDMI port worked again.

I don't know how many others may be experiencing this problem, but for those willing to take a peek, you may find this is the problem you are having too. If so, then you may have a shot at fixing your unit (if you have a steady soldering hand).


----------



## SR Milwaukee

I got the $299 TIVO HD from DirectTV. Tech installed it yesterday with HDMI cable. After turning off the TV (and back on again-a JCV 26" LCD575) I had the green/pink screen problem.....only way to clear is unplug and reboot. 

Called DirectTV.....after 45 minutes of back and forth with phone rep and customer service person, they said that Direct has given up trying to solve the HDMI problem.....said they wouldn't replace the unit but send out tech with component cables to use. 

I told them to just give me a $100 credit and I would buy component cables myself.......I can't take time from work to be home for another tech to just bring cables.....she did so quickly and gave me the credit.....she said this wouldn't prejudice me against future claims. 

I suppose I could have fought more for a new unit, but after reading this thread, its clear the HDMI situation is a mess.....I'm not sure I want to have my HD tivo set to record a week of shows when I am out of town and have the unit go bad again....I'd rather just try the component cables and see what happens.....


----------



## SR Milwaukee

Follow-up to my post above....got the component cables....picture looks great on CBS and OTA stations....not so great on HDN.....

But, I used regular audio cables, and I get no sound....none.....tried different RCA audio cables...again no sound....

Seems that I could buy a "digital" audio cable, but not sure how much those cost or if it solves my problem. Anyone had this issue?


----------



## cmassa

No audio is sent using component. It is video only. You will need to use either an optical digital connection or stereo connections for the audio. Some TV's (like my Sony 55XS955) won't play Dolby Digital and only pass it through so I connect direct to the amp for Dolby Digital and use stereo connections when just watching regular TV.

Chris


----------



## SR Milwaukee

Chris, thanks for the reply....yes, I understand that no audio goes through component.....my problem is that also I attached L-R audio cables to the audio out on the HD250 and into the correct L-R audio on my TV, and I still get no sound....

It's almost appears that the standard RCA jack audio outs don't work on my HD250 either.

Also, many of you refer to manufactured dates on your units?
Where is this data, I am not able to find it printed anywhere on the unit.


----------



## cmassa

I think the newer units have no manufacture date on them. I think that indicates it is newer than November 2004 and may be less susceptible to the HDMI failures. I just received a replacement unit of this type and hope the HDMI works. I'll get it hooked up tomorrow.

I don't no why there is no sound. Maybe there is a setting on your TV which ignores the analog when the HDMI is plugged in. On the Sony, if the HDMI is used, the analog stereo input is automatically deactivated. In that case I have to tell the HR10-250 to not use Dolby Digital. If I use component, the stereo inputs work, even when Dolby Digital is activated on the HR10-250. 

Chris


----------



## Bilbrey

Just curious, has anyone else fixed their HDMI port, or is everyone swapping units for new ones?


----------



## jeffdoo

The HDMI card I sent to CCS came back this past Friday and has been fully functional since that evening without any problems. I can't see what they fixed on the card, it could well be exactly what Bilbrey described above. But, I have neither the tools or experience to perform the kind of repair he's suggesting could fix the problem. DirecTV gave me a programming credit which covered the cost of the repair so I'm happy and using HDMI -> DVI (w/HDCP) .... component for me wasn't an option, no connectors....

Should be interesting to see what I receive when the install tech comes out on the 21st with my $199 unit....

- Jeff

ps: Total repair time was slightly more than a week, but Monday last week was a holiday so figure a week turn around time.


----------



## paulj

Bilbrey said:


> I was able to 'fix' my HDMI output. My problem was the fine pitch connector that is on the HDMI board that connects to the main MLB. If you look carefully, you may see what I did - some broken wires. It seems that flexing the HDMI connector/board puts a strain on the connector to the MLB. At least in my case.


 Brett, many thanks for the post! I had one of our girls at work touch up my HDMI board hoping that it was a bad solder joint or a via that wasn't plated through but it didn't help. I don't know if she poked around this connector or not. I wanted to see if I could get more details from you. I'm not sure what an MLB is, is this just the motherboard? Also, can you describe in more detail exactly where you touched up the connector?

paul


----------



## Bilbrey

paulj said:


> Brett, many thanks for the post! I had one of our girls at work touch up my HDMI board hoping that it was a bad solder joint or a via that wasn't plated through but it didn't help. I don't know if she poked around this connector or not. I wanted to see if I could get more details from you. I'm not sure what an MLB is, is this just the motherboard? Also, can you describe in more detail exactly where you touched up the connector?
> 
> paul


MLB = Main Logic Board (a.k.a. Motherboard)

The connector from the HDMI board to the MLB has some fine wires on the HDMI board side. It seems that any movement of the HDMI board (pressure from the HDMI connector, normal heating and cooling of the unit, etc.) can cause these fine wires in the connector to break.

So where I 'touched up' the wires was from the connector to the HDMI board.

The only reason that I needed a microscope is that as I get older, my ability to see 'near' seems to be moving farther away... sigh.

I would take my unit apart to take a picture for you, but I don't want to stress that connection any further... (It's working and I'm not touching it any more...)


----------



## elshagon

Just got my replacement unit delivered to me. Built in Mexico, no build date. The HDMI is working on the new unit! Third time's a charm. I hope I didn't just jinx myself  . Thanks for all the help on this board for alerting me to the problem so I could combat the BS directv was feeding me on possible problem (cables, tv incompatibility, software, etc).


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## mdryja

I'll second CCS. We got the HDMI card back in the mail today -- they fixed it the same day they got it, and shipped it out the next day. I have no clue what they did. I couldn't see any evident sign of repair. 

But it works. I'm having HDCP pass-through probs, but that appears to be related to a video processor that is not passing through HDCP.

If you want to avoid hassles, and have an extra $100, I highly recommend $100.


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## webpowered

What is CCS? 

I bought my HD-TIVO a year ago from American Satellite. Can I just take out my HDMI card that never worked and send it to CCS for repair? I'm in Philadelphia area and was told I'd get my MPG-4 TiVo replacement by end of year, but now that it's delayed maybe it's worth sending in my HDMI card for repair. I tried taking it out and reseating once, but never got any result, just black screen on my Sharp Aquos, so have been using component connection instead.

Thanks, Don


----------



## mdryja

CCS is: http://www.ccscorporation.net/

I and at least one other person have had their HDMI cards fixed by them. They are fast, and I don't know what they're doing to the cards, but the fixed worked. You just send them the HDMI card -- which is nice, because you can still use your box (analog outputs obviously) while the card is being fixed.

They got my card on a Thurs, shipped it out on Fri, and I got it back in time for MNF on Mon!


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## cmassa

Well, I just sent the second replacement unit back. The HDMI was DOA, no picture at all. I tried a new cable as well. They tried to go with port failure on the TV again but my original unit produces a picture, just a bad one so I can't believe it is the TV. Both ports on the TV do the same. The CSR was understanding and pleasant. She stated that the newer versions have a horizontally oriented HDMI port instead of vertical which she admitted has had lots of problems. Has anyone seen this to confirm? They keep sending refurbished units which have the same problem. I just wish they would send a brand new one. The next one should be here in a few days. We'll see.

Chris


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## elshagon

My new one looked no different then the first two which were DOA. All three made in Mexico with no date. Guess I got lucky though because the third one is working. I checked with other members here who have the same model tv as me to confirm it's not a compatibility issue, maybe you can do the same. I have seen some posts, and pictures somewhere which confirmed they are using a new HDMI set-up. I don't know if that made the dfference for me, but I don't think I'm going to push my luck by poking around inside now that I have one that's working. Good luck, I know it's frustrating. One thing I can say about directv though, dealing with customer service is much better than Dell or others I've dealt with in the past.


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## dvr_guy

Ein said:


> Just got a new unit 2 days ago with the "e" firmware, the HDMI connector works. It was made in Mexico, but no manufacturing date.


My unit was installed on 9/10 also with the "e" software. Manufactured in Mexico but with no date.
Is there anyway to tell which HDMI CARD is in the unit without cracking the case open?


----------



## toneman

Just recently bought a Panny 50" plasma so I was finally able to see if the HDMI on my unit (also made in Mexico w/ no manufacturing date--I assume it would be somewhere on the same nameplate that has the "Made In Mexico" on it, no?) works; so far, so good...


----------



## bruinscott

my story isnt much different from anyone else's, but thought I would share:

my HDMI was DOA out of the box, so I bought a Monster cable, still didnt work. I called Customer Retention, they sent me to Advanced Tech Support. The guy was very helpful, he put me on hold for a while and came back and said that they used to tell people it was a software problem, but they now know it isnt. He said they have had this problem with many people, and they now know the issue is that the pins are way too sensitive and break when you put in the cable. He offered to send me a new one, but admitted that I would have to be very careful with the cable, and even then it was a crapshoot. He told me that my best bet was to just use Component until they upgrade me at the end of the year with the new dish and box (I live in LA, we are slated for end of 2005 for the free conversion). 

I decided not to hassle with the new box, this is my first HD TV, so Component looks good to me. I can live with it for 4 months until the upgrade.

If I decide that I want to get it fixed, is this the problem CCS seems to be fixing for everyone? Not sure its worth $100 for something that will be fixed in 4 months, but then again, who knows if the upgrade will happen when they say it will


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## webpowered

I recently read on other threads of this forum that the original "end of 2005" replacement in cities like LA and Philadelphia etc is postponed. There is no definite date that a replacement HD DVR will come out. 

So I just took out my HDMI card and sent it to CSS, after talking to the man there. I've been using component connection for a year and have never seen what HDMI looks like, but am hopeful it will work, especially since the MPEG-4 won't be out for a while.


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## cmassa

I got one that worked on the third try. It has no manufacture date, made in Mexico. We'll see how long it lasts. I spent an hour last night putting all my settings in. I'm waiting for the guides to fill so I can put my season passes in. 

Chris


----------



## tem

> He said they have had this problem with many people, and they now know the issue is that the pins are way too sensitive and break when you put in the cable. He offered to send me a new one, but admitted that I would have to be very careful with the cable, and even then it was a crapshoot


Another way of them telling you it's your fault and not theirs, which it clearly is. I've had 4 with bad HDMI and I am VERY careful w/ the cables, as I would assume the vast majority of people who've posted in this thread. That excuse is total BS.


----------



## kbohip

Hmmm, while watching Top Gear last night my screen went all black for a couple of seconds. I skipped back to see if it was the recording and it didn't do it again. So far my HDMI has worked perfectly. I'm probably worrying about nothing but these dead HDMI threads are freaking me out!


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## prcannaley

My 2nd unit just arrvied. Made in Mexico 11/2004. It does work. But the story gets even better....

BEWARE: When I went to activate it the D* rep said I was automatically COMMITTING to 2 years of service!!! I said I was not, and based on the history of this machine it wouldn't last that long anyway!! Apparently now everyone who activates ANY HD SERVICE has to sign on for 2 more years. Even Customer Retention wouldn't back down on this, so I cancelled ALL services and will switch to cable. Selling all my D* stuff on EBAY I guess. Painful, expensive lesson. Good luck everyone!!


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## webpowered

They've been making customers sign for 2 years for a while. About 2 years ago my regular TiVo got fried from lightning and they sold me a refurbished Series 2 TiVo which I still use upstairs. They charged me $50 and made me commit to a long term.

I have basic cable and cable internet when I gave up Direcway satellite, but wouldn't want Comcast digital cable in my area even with their HD-DVR!! 

I just hope the upcoming HD-Mpeg-4 DVR from DirecTV is comparable to the current HD-TIVO. Does anyone know if the new box will still get digital UHF antenna channels like the current one???


----------



## JEDeG

Sent my HDMI card to CCS on 9/16 (Friday) by Priority Mail. CCS fixed it and sent it out 9/19 (Monday). It would have arrived 9/21 but USPS misrouted it, so it arrived 9/22. After being DOA when I bought the HR10, HDMI now works fine. ALSO, when I called DirecTV about reimbursement for the $100 repair cost, the CSR gave me a $60 HBO programming credit. I didn't try to get more - a $40 net cost was OK with me and sure beats trying to get a new unit that may or may not work. Thanks to all on this forum for the CCS link - they are fantastic.

BTW, HDMI PQ looks slightly better on HD stuff (32" Sony LCD), but I thought SD looked a bit softer/more artifacts. Too subjective to really make a call w/o side by side testing.


----------



## webpowered

I just got my HDMI card that never worked back from CCS and agree with everything JEDeG just wrote. I'm on a 30 inch Sharp Aquos LCD. HD stuff looks subtely better but SD doesn't look that great because you notice the flaws.

You're too kind about your $60 credit. I'm going to call and ask for a lot more than reimbursement for my $100 I spent at CCS. I've had my HDMI non functional for a year, and how come CSS knows how to fix the card and send it back same day, and DirecTV techs don't!!?!!

I never bothered getting a replacement unit because so many people got bad HDMI cards in their replacements.

I just hope this HD-TiVo lasts for the unspecified time required until the mpg-4 DVR comes out. Months?? Years? 

I'm already getting periodic spontaneous restarts on this TiVo!


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## liquid4012

I received my HR10-250 two weeks ago. Right out of the box the HDMI output didn't work. The picture was extremely grainy and low-quality, and there was a purple or green tint over the screen.

It's unbelieavble how incompetent and badly trained some of the CSRs are at Directv. One woman told me "well if your component cables are working, what's the problem?" Well, I paid a lot of money for this unit, I'd like it to function correctly if that's ok with you. She then went on to say that "the reason it's not working is because you can't have an HDMI cable go into a DVI input, there ain't no such thing". Well, I have a cable specifically for that and they're backwards-compatible. She refused to let me swap the unit because I bought it from an authorized retailer, and I'd have to get it from them.

The next time I call, I get a woman who tells me "we don't support the HDMI output until at least the end of the year. We can't guarantee it's going to work." So I said "well, can I speak to the HD-specific Customer Support department?" She then says "they just going to tell you the same thing!" with a lot of attitude.

So she transfers me and I speak to a very knowledgeable CSR named Janice who is swapping my system with no problem. I just hope this one works, if not, I'll stick with the component cables. Oh the humanity.


----------



## Bilbrey

You want to WATCH the picture?!? 

_(Sorry, I just wanted to use the "eek" smilie.)_


----------



## pshkbb

I apologize in advance if this question may have been discussed in previous posts to this thread - but I can't afford to scan through 44 pages of posts on this topic. I just got my new HR10-250 and hooked up 1 week ago. Using the HDMI-to-HDMI connection (on Sony 55XS955 RP LCD). I'm already noticing on recorded programs pixelation issues. 

Is this another symptom of the bad HDMI connection or could it be other issue? I am an upgraded SAT-T60 user and I never experienced this kind of pixelation issue before (except during intense rain storms).


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## bollwerk

I've had my HD Tivo for almost a month (using HDMI to DVI/HDCP connection). I've had almost no problems with picture quality. The only issue I ever had was with one Weeds episode (in HD) that had a couple minutes of no picture and spradic sound, but I think that may have been on D*'s end. Not sure. I just re-recorded the episode again and it was fine.

One thing I wish I could fix is the couple lines of white/black blinking "data" on SD channels that shows up at the top. My HDTV (Syntax Olevia 27") doesn't have a way to adjust overscan, so I'm out of luck. =/


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## Budget_HT

bollwerk,

On your Syntax HDTV, can you adjust the vertical position upward slightly (e.g., computer monitor-style) to hide those lines of black/white blinking data? That's what I did on my little 15" Polaroid HD-ready TV/monitor. I would rather have a small black band at the bottm than the distracting flashing data at the top.

I cannot change vertical size, I can only adjust vertical position.


----------



## tase2

I have now had mine connected HDMI-HDMI with no problems at all. I have had the unit for 10 months but just got a TV with HDMI almost a month ago. I didn't read anything about being careful with the cable before hand and unraveled it and hooked it up as I would with any cable, again worked fine right out of the box.

I have noticed a few fractions of a second blackouts, but I think that use to happen with the Sat anyway. So I guess I was lucky-at least so far

/keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## STi_Rocky

> Per DirecTV technical support, contacted this morning, a software fix is expected within a week (i.e. by 2-22). The tech support rep said they have had "numerous" reports of the problem, are "well aware" of the need for a fix, and that their tech people are working on it. He said they are no longer authorized to send out replacement units, since they think the problem is not in the hardware. According to the rep I talked to, the "fix" will likely be reported as a message on the TiVo screen. In the meantime he says they are counselling users to watch HD through the (lower resolution) component connections.


 I too just got off the phone with DTV, and pretty much got the same answer - no more replacements, there is no fix at this time, and something is being worked on. But it took a number of persons to finally get this answer! I told this supervisor that DTV should get on here and give us an official answer for ALL to see. Holding my breath


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## Bilbrey

STi_Rocky said:


> I too just got off the phone with DTV, and pretty much got the same answer - no more replacements, there is no fix at this time, and something is being worked on. But it took a number of persons to finally get this answer! I told this supervisor that DTV should get on here and give us an official answer for ALL to see. Holding my breath


Interesting. Well a software fix would not have worked for my problem, and that was broke wires... Sounds like they have more than one problem to deal with...


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## mdryja

Guys, if you got $!00 to spare, save yourself a lot of grief, and send the HDMI card to CCS for repair.


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## liquid4012

Got my new HR10-250 as promised from Directv. HDMI output works like a charm now. Great picture, but SD looks a bit blurrier now. I've heard the same from others. Oh well, the HD looks even crisper now, so it's a trade off.


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## STi_Rocky

Well, got this in the mail today from an E-Mail I sent to DTV:


> Dear Mr. XXXXX,
> 
> Thanks for writing. I'm sorry to hear that you are still having technical difficulty with using an HDMI cable. Since it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.
> 
> Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly.
> 
> Sincerely,


 Yeah yeah yeah! Its been a YEAR that mine has not worked, and I keep hearing all sorts of run arounds! As I stated above, the supervisor I talked to, after having me on hold for some time, told me that DTV is no longer sending out replacements. But now I see Liquid got a new one????? I was also told that the HDMI output was NEVER GUARANTEED TO WORK in the first place????? WHAT??????? And that this is not only their unit having this problem, but other sat companies as well? Funny, as my HDMI Pioneer DVD player works fine right out of the box.

As for the CCS fix - I was told that DTV would not reimburse for the cost of the repair, and that it would VOID my warranty? WHAT WARRANTY if my unit is not working as it should, and they won't fix or replace it anyway????

Has anyone talked to a lawyer or the BBB about this yet? I think it is time they pay their dues and get their sh*t straight for once!!!!!!!


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## K_bueno

Rocky:

That's insanity! The crap that comes out of CSR's mouths is incredible. The HDMI was never guaranteed to work???? That's a new one. I would play CSR roulette and keep at it until you get what you want. MY unit was replaced because of a bad HDMI just 2 months ago! Good luck.


----------



## tem

K_bueno said:


> Rocky:
> 
> That's insanity! The crap that comes out of CSR's mouths is incredible. The HDMI was never guaranteed to work???? That's a new one. I would play CSR roulette and keep at it until you get what you want. MY unit was replaced because of a bad HDMI just 2 months ago! Good luck.


They tried to say the same thing to me. I mean, it's ONLY PRINTED ON THE BOX LIKE 4 TIMES. That's like Denon saying "Sorry, even though your receiver SAYS it has an optical output, we never GUARANTEED that it would work". Well, yeah, you did by PRINTING A F'ING GUARANTEE IN THE MANUAL. There's no asterix, there's no footnotes, there's nothing saying that it excludes the HDMI output.

CSR roulette usually works, but someone really needs to sue their ass for fraud the 1st time they can't get a new one under warranty.


----------



## Andy in NYC

My HDMI has been working fine for the last 2 weeks. Today, for some reason, it isn't. The component works, the TV works just fine on all other inputs, but HDTivo to HDMI TV input gives me a "no picture" picture.

Talked with the customer support, explained the problem. He at first said, "use the component". I explained the digital to analog to digital conversions going on and he understood the problem. If that didn't work, I was going to offer to sell him a new 4 door car where only the back passenger door opened (hey, if you climb over, you can drive just fine!); it didn't get that far.

They are FedEx'ing a new unit today - I might get it tomorrow.

Sometimes, support is great (pity I needed it though).

Andrew


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## Finlennium

My 250's HDMI finally failed last week after 16 1/2 months. Guess I'll wait for the mpeg-4 dvr and just use component for now.


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## memnoch

Perfect for two weeks now.


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## liquid4012

STi_Rocky said:


> Well, got this in the mail today from an E-Mail I sent to DTV: Yeah yeah yeah! Its been a YEAR that mine has not worked, and I keep hearing all sorts of run arounds! As I stated above, the supervisor I talked to, after having me on hold for some time, told me that DTV is no longer sending out replacements.


Rocky, I got the same exact e-mail from a representative before I called and finally got a competent rep who sent it out without questions. Most of the CSRs there are either completely ignorant, poorly trained or told to discourage sending out replacements. If you make enough of a stink, they'll give you what you deserve. Purchasing anything should work the way it's supposed to. If you bought a car and, for example, the glove compartment light didn't work, it would be fixed with no questions asked. I don't understand why they seem to think this is any different.


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## tem

liquid4012 said:


> I don't understand why they seem to think this is any different.


because some bean counter told them they were sending out too many replacements for free and he's figured out that enough people with just go along w/ the "tough sh**" reason instead of demanding what is rightfully theirs. It's the same logic that leads companies to issue recalls or not.


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## chengka

HDTivo installed yesterday with a defective HDMI port. Rep I spoke to at the time of the install tried to tell me it was a firmware issue. Wait 24 hours to get the latest, even after we confirmed that 3.15f on the machine was already the latest. Called back this evening and 2nd level tech support issued a replacement without having to ask for it. More CSR roulette. I will go this route until I get one that works, or until the calls get too stressful. Heck, I end up with a CCS repair anyway in a few months. 

Good luck to all.


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## audvid

I too had hdmi (no output) problem with the 1034054 hdmi card. I wanted to simply swap the cards (based on another post - who did it successfully). Unfortunately, directv wised up - probably felt that CCS was going too good of a service. Now the hdmi card is hard glued onto the mother board. It cannot be removed. Is it possible that this gluing was done to prevent the failures and is unrelated to users pulling the card out to send for repairs?

The new unit had "over heat" problem right away. I am sending it back and sending my card to CCS for repairs. Did anyone have the "over heat problem" appear after CCS fixed it?

The replacement unit gets reset with a power off/on and starts working again, even after "over heat" message. But my original unit no longer works with the HDMI card. I am wondering if I would have similar "over heat" message even with CCS repair and that I might have to power it off and on.


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## notmestl

Well here I am... 
I have had my Hd Tivo for almost a full year now. Using the hdmi port with no issues at all. Last night I sat down to watch some recordings and guess what?The picture was _green_ with a nice hint of blue and really squiggly... ewwww. So, I got up and wiggled the hdmi cable in the back and hmm the picture corrected for a 1/2 second. ARG!!!! 
At least I am under a year I suppose. Hooked up the component for now. I have until the 23rd to call Directv and get a replacement sent out and believe you me I will. I will keep everyone up to date on the progress....


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## audvid

notmestl

If misery loves company, well... we have a lot of company. 

My unit was working fine - I was using a HDMI to VGA converter and all was well. 

Recently, I got a new DVI input card for my CRT and as soon as I connected it.. within minutes.. poof.. hdmi trouble. The maker of the card says his card had nothing to do with it - his card works fine with other HDMI devices.

Anyway, if $100 is not too much for your budget, you might be better off getting CCS to fix it. I got a replacement receiver from directv. While it did work - it would go into the"too hot..." mode overnight. In addition, the card was actually glued in hard to the mother board. I am not sure why they did that. I guess they figured out CCS was doing a better job of fixing? 

Anyway, I sent the directv unit back and sent my card in to CCS for repair. 

I was another post who said..."just send the card to CCS and save yourself a lot of hassle...". He was absolutely correct. I will confirm after I receive the card back from CCS but I think its a better way to go. 

You mentioned the 23rd. You should seriously consider getting directv protection plan prior to your anniversary and while your unit is still under warranty.


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## audvid

To those who have their cards repaired by CCS: Does the "over heat..." problem or a different failure re-appear after CCS has fixed your card?


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## chengka

Replacement unit arrived. Defective HMDI. POS used equiptment. Filthy. D* says I should have received a new unit(original less than 1 week old). Maybe the 3rd time is the charm.


----------



## paulcoats

I purchased my HD Tivo from CircuitCity through the mail a year or so ago. The first one had a terrible HDMI picture. Unwatchable. You could see something, but not much. Had to purchase a new one and I was going to send the old one back with shipping paid by CC for full refund once I get the new one. Got the new one ...HDMI port did not work at all. Bought another....still no picture on the HDMI port. 

I finally talked to someone at Hughes who seemed to be failry competent. He said this is common, that some of the earlier Tivo's connection on the HDMI port is very sensitive and is easily damaged by movement. Known problem. Send it back to us and we will send you one without this issue. I asked CC about this and they said I could do this but my extended warranty would not work because it would only be valid on the original TIVO. 

I stuck with the component output because I was wary of going through a 4th Tivo and sent 2 Tivos back for full refunds, kept one. 


CC did say I could take the Tivo to a store anytime during my extended warranty and replace it at the store. They actually called the store and gave me the managers name to talk to. I never exchanged it because I was lazy had shows on it I wanted to watch. I may eventually do the exchange if I can get CC to actually hookup the new Tivo to check the HDMI before swapping it out, and I finish all my shows....


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## mcatgt

No problems yet...4 months and counting.


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## audvid

CCS corp people gave excellent service. 

When my unit failed, directv sent a replacement. While its hdmi outoupt did work it would occasionally go into "... temp too high.." mode. it had the hdmi unit glued on to the mother board - i did not know why...

I returned that unit to direct and sent my own board to ccs. They repaired it and returned it very promptly (1 week roundtrip). Absolutely no problem now.

If $100 is not too much for you, I would strongly encourage using CCS and saving yourselves a lot of head ache. 

PS: I am in no way connected to CCS. If you search, you will find that others also have posted similar glowing experiences. its nice to be able to promote excellence.


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## webpowered

I discovered CCS from this forum a month ago. My HDMI never worked since I bought the unit in September 04. I used component only, and hesitated getting a replacement after reading stories here of people returning one after another and still bad HDMI.

CCS repaired my card and for the first time I see the subtlety of my HDMI connection. It's been working fine now for a few weeks.

What annoys me most, if CCS knows how to repair the cards, how come DirecTV doesn't?

I plan on calling DirecTV soon and requesting some sort of credit for the $100 I just spent repairing what they should have repaired! (On this forum, I see differing results on asking for credit from DirecTV. Some get something, some don't.)


----------



## Bilbrey

webpowered said:


> What annoys me most, if CCS knows how to repair the cards, how come DirecTV doesn't?
> 
> I plan on calling DirecTV soon and requesting some sort of credit for the $100 I just spent repairing what they should have repaired! (On this forum, I see differing results on asking for credit from DirecTV. Some get something, some don't.)


You ask an excellent question, and I believe that DirecTV does know what the problem is and how to fix it, but is trying to avoid admitting/acknowledging the issue because of liability. CCS is getting $100 to repair the boards, and that is a profit center for them. DirecTV repairing the board would be a cost liability and they will only do it for the customers that 'squeak' ("If it's not broke, don't fix it" mentality). What DirecTV is afraid of is if/when a recall is announced, not only will the customers with known bad units return them, but customers that may have a bad HDMI port, but are just using component video now, will try their HDMI port and find it is bad and want it fixed even though they probably will continue to only use component video (they want what they paid for to be working).

This is a huge loss potential for DirecTV, and the last thing DirecTV wants, is someone contacting a lawyer and getting a class action suit started. A class action suit would be a 'no brainer'. In fact, DirecTV even knows where all the HR10-250 customers are. Its not like when someone buys a product and the company only knows where the product is if the customer submits the warranty card. DirecTV has a data base of customers with this product. DirecTV would have to 'make remedy' for all customers that have bad HR10-250 units. I'm not sure how DirecTV would handle customers that repaired HR10-250 units on their own, perhaps by having to offer credit on monthly service when presented with a receipt that the customer repaired the unit.

I'm sure that DirecTV is reading this now and is very worried. DirecTVs lawyers should be worried. This is a power keg that has a fuse, and it takes just customer to contact a lawyer to initiate a class action suit that will light that fuse.


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## webpowered

Well, who knows a lawyer that can start a suit? Without us having to pay lots up front?

It's been mentioned here before, but no one really did anything about it, that I know.

Also, I'm concerned about the changeover to Mpeg4 equipment. No one has answered if we can still use off-air antenna too? And if the TiVo will be the same familiar interface, and WHEN WILL IT HAPPEN? I'm in Philadelphia area, and didn't get my HD TiVo replaced because I was told this changeover could happen as soon as Dec 2005 and now it's said to be postponed with no firm date for DVR.

HDMI is not the only thing wrong with the HD-TiVo. The interface gets really slow, and I've noticed some peculiarities if it's recording two HD programs at same time. I think it's too much for the processing power. Sometimes it takes a long time to change channels and part of the recording is missing. I've started leaving my tuners on the channels that will be recorded so the TiVo doesn't have to change.

Just hope this one lasts for the months (years???) until the Mpeg4 DVR comes out.

If mine dies, guess I could just buy a replacement, since they're less than a third of the $1000 I spent a year ago!!! (sarcasm)

*****, *****, *****! But the HD-TiVo and DirecTV are so much better than what Comcast offers, or I would have changed ages ago!



Don


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## Bilbrey

webpowered said:


> I'm concerned about the changeover to Mpeg4 equipment.
> 
> HDMI is not the only thing wrong with the HD-TiVo. The interface gets really slow, and I've noticed some peculiarities if it's recording two HD programs at same time. I think it's too much for the processing power. Sometimes it takes a long time to change channels and part of the recording is missing. I've started leaving my tuners on the channels that will be recorded so the TiVo doesn't have to change.


Your right, I'm sure that DirecTV will have to handle the transistion to MPEG4 carefully so that they don't open themselves up to further liability. But if they continue to provide the existing service to current users for a few years, I would expect they will be OK. (but I'm not a lawyer...)

As to the 'other' things wrong with HD-Tivo, those are not liabilities. Units may be slow, but they work as advertised.


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## Budget_HT

I just had my 2nd HD TiVo installed yesterday ($299 -100 special). We are using HDMI with it because both component inputs on the HDTV are already in use. After adjusting the settings on the TV (32" flat screen LCD) the picture looks fantastic, but then so does the analog input E-86 picture. A 32" screen is not really big enough to see the potential differences.

The new HD TiVo says made in Mexico and shows no date, so hopefully it is new enough to have the newer HDMI capability. Now we start the clock to see how long everything looks good. My older HD TiVo (one of the first that Good Guys pre-sold and delivered in Seattle) has worked perfectly so far, but I have not tried the HDMI output ever, since my older 48" RP CRT HDTV does not have HDMI or DVI.


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## paulj

Add myself to the list of happy CCS customers. I got tired of dealing with the brain dead zombies at DirecTV.

paul


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## audvid

Budget_HT said:


> I just had my 2nd HD TiVo installed yesterday ($299 -100 special). .


You are an existing customer and you are able to add 2nd hdtivo for $299-100= $199?


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## Sir_winealot

Usually, if 6 months have passed you can participate in another "D* deal."


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## free-1

Sir_whinealot said:


> Usually, if 6 months have passed you can participate in another "D* deal."


So where can I get the upgrade (CCS) here in Philly. I'm on my third hr10-250 and all have had hdmi to dvi problems. Any suggestions


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## audvid

http://www.ccscorporation.net/


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## free-1

Much much thanks


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## Budget_HT

audvid said:


> You are an existing customer and you are able to add 2nd hdtivo for $299-100= $199?


I purchased this deal just before they shut it off recently. I simply asked for it (called into retention group directly) and it was a no-hassle transaction.

My only prior "deal" with DirecTV was $270 worth of discounts when I purchased my original HR10-250 the first month they came out. Otherwise I have been paying full fare since 2000.

There are many folks out there subscribing for far fewer years and getting far more deals than I.


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## rs808

Well my new 60" Sony SXRD arrived today replacing my 4yr old Mits WS-55819. My HD Tivo has worked flawlessly for over a year using the component outputs. The mits didnt have digital inputs so this was my first attempt at using the HDMI output. Guess what? It's dead. I get no picture what so ever when I switch to the HDMI input. The HD tivo plays out the component output even though the HDMI cable is plugged in. (As others have reported in this thread.)

I was like #915 on VE list when some friendly person started a thread on this site stating they were available on Best Buys website. I was fortunate and got one. Luckily after the purchase I went to my local store to buy the 4yr extended warranty. I plan on taking it back on Monday after a full weekend of HD Football on my new SXRD. I'll report back on how Best Buy handles the warranties they desperately pitch so much.


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## Bilbrey

I thought it might be interesting to see what I ran into with my card.

First, this is what the HDMI card inside the HR10-250 unit looks like:










Now here is a close up on the connector that mates to the MLB. What you are looking at is the connector to PCB junction, and what you can see is the 'cracks' in the solder joints that hold the connector to the card.










It is not simple to get under the connector and resolder the SMT leads that have broken away from the card. I suggest using a hot air soldering unit, the type used for SMT reworks. That worked for me.

I can understand that for many people, sending their unit away for $100 to get it repaired is a simpler task...


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## notmestl

After all this CCS talk I am considering taking that track. Has anyone sent in their whole unit to them, instead of just the card? Just wondering what kind of improvements that has made or none at all?
thanks...


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## darthrsg

if you click the poll your hdmi will die


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## johnchart

My HR10-250 installed one week ago. Plenty of "poor picture" problems. Some of the HD is fine. Much of the SD is not. Also has blank screen for 1 or 2 seconds on occasion.


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## xxrando

Bilbrey said:


> It is not simple to get under the connector and resolder the SMT leads that have broken away from the card. I suggest using a hot air soldering unit, the type used for SMT reworks. That worked for me.
> 
> I can understand that for many people, sending their unit away for $100 to get it repaired is a simpler task...


Excellent post, thanks! My first HR10-250 should arrive tomorrow and it looks like I should give it a once over with my SMT rework station right off the bat.


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## Rcam10

I can understand that for many people, sending their unit away for $100 to get it repaired is a simpler task... [/QUOTE]

That is a interesting picture. Its been over a year now since I looked at that old type connector, so I cannot really remember exactly what all I resoldered on the DOA one I got.

I did focus in tha area since that appeared to the problem, but also at that time it could have been on the mother board also. They had just came out and it wasn't a fact it was just the card. I resoldered a lot of places, not sure how I could have missed what you show, but maybe I did. Well, what I soldered didn't repair it, course I was going to get it replaced anyway so maybe I didn't look long enough. If thats always the problem area on of the old type connector.


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## Bilbrey

If you note in the picture of the card, there is red 'potting material' around the connector to the MLB. I'm guessing that they are having problems with flexing problems with the connector to the MLB. That flexing is ripping the SMT mounting leads of the connector away from the daughter card PCB. This flexing could be heating and cooling cycles (this does not mean having to turn the unit off, but simply the different of max day temp vs. min night temp.).

I had a simular sort of problem with my Toshiba DST-3000 DirecTV HD receiver. Sigh.


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## tucsontiger

My HDMI died right out of the box. It worked for about 30 seconds and that was it. I called DirecTv and the second level CSR told me that the problem was with the "voltage" She claimed that a software patch was just around the corner and they would download it to me. After reading all these posts, I think the woman was just lying to me. Does anyone have anything new to report on this issue? I bought a new TV to take advantage of the HDMI connection so this is very annoying. Thanks.


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## wje

Bilbrey said:


> I thought it might be interesting to see what I ran into with my card...


That's a great photo! About time someone showed us what the actual problem was. Anyone know how it was fixed? From what I can see in my (4th) unit, the card mounting has been modified a bit, which would support the connector-flexing theory.

If it dies again, at least I know what to look for. I don't have an SMT station, but I have done SMT the _real_ way - a tiny tip, tweezers, and a magnifying glass. And lots of patience and extra chips.


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## Bilbrey

wje said:


> That's a great photo! About time someone showed us what the actual problem was. Anyone know how it was fixed? From what I can see in my (4th) unit, the card mounting has been modified a bit, which would support the connector-flexing theory.


Considering that I have have found two units now that have the same connector failure, I don't see how DirecTV can say there is a Software fix. Unless there is a second problem on top of the connector issue.

Who knows, there may be more than one problem here...


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## wje

Apparently, there WAS a software issue that affected a few makes of TVs. That was fixed with the 'f' update. However, there was (is) also a hardware problem, which seems to be much more common. For a long time, D* claimed all failures were software, even when it was completely obvious that the facts were otherwise. 

Somtime around this time last year, the HDMI card/connector/mounting was redesigned, supposedly solving the problem. I haven't heard of any confirmed failures with the new card.


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## tucsontiger

Here is the latest in my battle. I called Advanced Techinical support. First, they tried to convince me that using component cables was just as good. Uh, no. Then they told me it was the cable because they have fixed the problem. That was a good one, given the posts here. Then the guy said he would send me a new one. I took him up on that. So, in the next few days I will have my new unit and I will try it. Something tells me that it, too, will die. Maybe not right away, but soon. Argghhhh.


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## Bilbrey

Given the previous post, I have the following observation and question:

Observation - After soldering my connection properly, my unit has continued to work flawlessly.

Question - Has anyone that has had a hardware repair of the HDMI card, had any reoccuring problems?

What I am trying to find out is, once 'really' repaired, has anyone had any further problems?


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## hoffa

This is a very long post to read the whole. I just want to make sure I have it right.

I just got my 250 and hooked it up with hdmi to dvi and it worked great for 2 weeks then nothing. They told me it was because of my hdmi to dvi hook up. and I had to use components because hdmi to dvi does not work. Is this right or is it really the hdmi hookup it self and I should get another one.


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## webpowered

I use hdmi to dvi now. When I bought my HD-TiVo over a year ago, hdmi never worked. 

Only recently I discovered on this forum the place to send the card for microscopic repair for $100. The hdmi to dvi has been working fine ever since.

Keep calling DirecTV and ask for a top tier support person. That is if you want a replacement.


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## hoffa

Mine did fail after 2 weeks and was made in Mexico, but did not have a date. They are sending me another one via FED-EX. Should be here in 2 or 3 days.


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## tucsontiger

When I called Tuesday for a replacement, the CSR assured me I would have my new unit in one or two business days. I called today (Friday) and learned that D* has not even sent the unit out for shipment. She had no idea when that might happen. She did not know anything at all. I guess this some sort of passive-aggressive approach to supplying replacement units. My guess: I wait forever for the unit and it dies right out of the box. I hope I am wrong.


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## kento1

Sigh....add my name to the growing list of HDMI failures. Worked fine for 10 months (although I had to make sure the source-- Tivo or DVD or other component-- was turned on before the TV for the "handshake" to take), but now HDMI is acting up. Unit was made in Mexico, build date not available at the moment. Purchased at Good Guys back in February, and now that they've filed for Chapter 11, the store where I purchased it is no more. I see that most everyone here has gone to DirecTV for resolving the problem, or taking out the card and sending it a repair facility.

The problem I'm also encountering is that my DVD player HDMI connection has also failed at the same time. 

The HR10-250 drops signal output after 20-30 minutes of run time, but my DVD player (Denon DVD-2910) drops out almost immediately. Screen on my Panasonic TH50PHD-7UY goes blank with a "no signal" message. Also noticed that if I have the HR10-250 and DVD player on at the same time, signal drops almost immediately. 

Any thoughts as to why my Denon DVD player's HDMI output has suffered the same problem as the HD Tivo? Thanx in advance for any help.


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## tucsontiger

And so it goes. Today I called D* and learned that my replaced HD DVR has still not shipped. CSR sent me around to four or five bored reps. Finally, one of them canceled my old order and sent me back to CSR to order another one. Then she hung up on me. I called back and made a whole new order. There goes a week down the drain. Mind you, the replacement was supposed to be delivered to me in 1-2 days. So, here we go again. Tomorrow I get to call back and find out this new order has not shipped, either. I just now when it arrives it will not work. I just now it. I used to really like D* until this. Now . . .


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## esteser

I have had D* for the past year and HD for the past 10 months. My HDMI just went out and I hope to have a replacement rcvr in 2 business days... Blah.. Blah... Blah.. We shalll see.


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## pabuwal

My fifth unit was ordered on 11/26/05. I called 2 days later and found out the replacement had not shipped. They told me they were on backorder and the expected time would be 3-5 days before they shipped. You can check their website for status when you login.

The big joke is I have been paying $8/month for the protection plan after paying $1000 for this unit. And now they can't even ship me a replacement because they have been dumping this unit in retail stores for $100 or so.


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## Sir_winealot

pabuwal said:


> My fifth unit was ordered on 11/26/05. I called 2 days later and found out the replacement had not shipped. They told me they were on backorder and the expected time would be 3-5 days before they shipped. You can check their website for status when you login.
> 
> The big joke is I have been paying $8/month for the protection plan after paying $1000 for this unit. And now they can't even ship me a replacement because they have been dumping this unit in retail stores for $100 or so.


Where exactly have you seen this unit for "$100 or so?" Which retail stores?


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## tucsontiger

My second order also never shipped. So, I asked to speak to a supervisor. She said she had a double-secret way of placing my order and that she would do it herself. She was going to email me a confirmation that my third order had shipped. No word yet. I suspected this was a back order situation, but no one would confirm that. I am starting to think that my first (of many) replacements is never going to arrive. This is such an awful blunder for D*. Imagine the backlash when they roll out the MPEG4 receivers and one-third of them don't work.


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## tucsontiger

BTW, here is the direct line to the HD CSR Dept: 800 695 9251. As soon as you get through, demand to speak to a supervisor.


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## nlayton

Okay, this is fun. (Not really)

I had a new HR10-250 installed friday at about 3pm. The HDMI connection was working fine. Went to sleep at about 10pm. By eleven o'clock that same night. It was dead. It actually locked up my whole system and gave a error on the screen that said. "Severe temperature warning, the unit has been shut down to protect etc, etc" The only way to restart is was to unplug the unit and unplug the HDMI cable. With the HDMI cable plugged in. It would not boot up! 

So now I am running off of component video after less than 8 hours!

The reason I know it locked up before 11pm is that I had a show sheduled to record at 11 that it didn't record. Plus a few free showtime movies at 2am and 4am were not recorded.

I will keep my fingeres crossed for the next 24 hours


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## STi_Rocky

I FINALLY got my new (refurbished???!!!!) HR10-250 from DTV. Took a YEAR of b*tching at them to get one. I looked inside, and the card and connector is totally different now (so can't just swap cards). I did test it, and the HDMI works. But now, I need to find a way to transfer my movies that I have recorded from the old hard drive to the new one. Can't just swap drives, it gives ERROR 51 - which means the hard drive is not mating to the new motherboard. Anyone have an idea on how to just swap the movies over? Cause you can't just "ghost" the image over, would still get the ERROR 51. I looked at Hinsdale's website, but there was way too much to try and sort through.


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## xxrando

xxrando said:


> Excellent post, thanks! My first HR10-250 should arrive tomorrow and it looks like I should give it a once over with my SMT rework station right off the bat.


I guess I'll be cracking open my 5 week old HR10-250 now.

The HDMI port had been working fine (a few 1s drop outs here and there excluded) but decided to go nuts last night as I was using the up arrow to adjust the output resolution. I've done this a 100 times before but after I did it last night, the picture just flickers on for about a half second and then goes green, blue, jumbled and then black for about 5-10s and then repeats. I cycled the power and the HDMI output was fine during the initial power up screen but then reverted back to the cycle above once it got to the retrieving info from satellite screen. Of course I tried a different HDMI input on my TV as well as a different cable -- both to no avail. This is odd and really doesn't seem like a hardware issue.

Fortunately, component video still works ok -- albeit not quite as clear.


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## hoffa

Well my replacement finally showed up today. Ordered on 11/23 and after 3 phone calls of them telling me it was sent then it never showing up. Well first off it was a refurbished unit. Mine was less then a month old so they said I was going to be getting a new one. Anyway, I hooked it up and guess what HDMI did not even work. So back in the package off to DTV it goes. Try for #3.


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## esteser

SO I got my replacement DVR ------ THE series 2 SD -40 . I think NOT. Last time I checked this unit never had the HDMI. So how could this replace my old one. I can't believe these people. So I am on hold... AGAIN for 30 + minutes trying to find out what happened to my order. So here goes round #2 ..... ding... ding...

So I just got off the phone. They state that I must now wait to get approval before they send out the correct part number to verify that this sd-dvr40 is not a "comparable" substitue for my hd Tivo. I am regretting spending the money on this product - and I can't believe the customer service for their error. I should have stuck with Cable.


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## tucsontiger

After waiting two weeks for D* to ship me a replacement, they shipped me two. Honestly. I got one at work and one at home the same day. The one I got at work was clearly a refurb. The box was so beat to hell that it sagged. I'll bet this thing has been shipped and returned ten times. The one at home looked brand new. I plugged that into the HDMI and it worked perfectly. The picture quality is outstanding. I can't be sure, but I think this is a slightly newer model. The background on the TIVO is blue, instead of green. Of course, the HDMI could die at any time. But, for one night, at least, I have a working HDMI connection.


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## BobbyK

My HDMI just went out. Got the unit on 11/2/05. D* says I will have a new box within two days. This will be my 2nd replacement. The first one was sent back due to excessive Audio/video drop outs. I bought the orignal in July and never had an HDMI problem with it.
I didn't realize how many HDMI issues there are with this box. D* said she had never heard of one.


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## hoffa

Boy do I feel stupid. OK, received my 3rd box today. only took 2 days, :up: . Unit was refurbished, was supposed to be new, :down: . hooked up, did not work. No new cables to see if it was a cable problem. So went and bought $130 cable. Still nothing. So I thought maybe it was my TV (LG RU-44SZ61D). Went to the store I bought my TV from (Modern TV - little local store here in San Jose). The owner told me to try this setting on my TV. So I went home and tried the setting and well it worked. Great picture. The input is a RGB PC/DTV. I needed to change it from PC to DTV. Stupid me. The reason I did not think it was a setting was because when I first hooked up my box (about month ago), it worked just fine for 2 weeks, then just went black one day. So I figured the settings were not the problem. Little did I know I guess. So after all that I am going to send D* back their refurbished unit #3 and keep my original brand new unit #1 and hope nothing goes wrong with it. D* had told me the first time that they think they had fixed the problem and all the new boxes should have no problems. So I guess I will keep my fingers crossed.

I wonder how many other people have made the same mistake and it wasn't really D*'s fault? Just curious


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## AbMagFab

hoffa said:


> Boy do I feel stupid. OK, received my 3rd box today. only took 2 days, :up: . Unit was refurbished, was supposed to be new, :down: . hooked up, did not work. No new cables to see if it was a cable problem. So went and bought $130 cable. Still nothing. So I thought maybe it was my TV (LG RU-44SZ61D). Went to the store I bought my TV from (Modern TV - little local store here in San Jose). The owner told me to try this setting on my TV. So I went home and tried the setting and well it worked. Great picture. The input is a RGB PC/DTV. I needed to change it from PC to DTV. Stupid me. The reason I did not think it was a setting was because when I first hooked up my box (about month ago), it worked just fine for 2 weeks, then just went black one day. So I figured the settings were not the problem. Little did I know I guess. So after all that I am going to send D* back their refurbished unit #3 and keep my original brand new unit #1 and hope nothing goes wrong with it. D* had told me the first time that they think they had fixed the problem and all the new boxes should have no problems. So I guess I will keep my fingers crossed.
> 
> I wonder how many other people have made the same mistake and it wasn't really D*'s fault? Just curious


Thank you for posting this! I'm pretty sure most of the multiple-failure people have a problem like this (i.e. TV setting, TV issue, cable issue, etc.). Unfortunately, too many people can't diagnose properly, and just keep blaming the "new thing".

There are some real problems out there, but there are also many problems like yours.


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## STi_Rocky

> Thank you for posting this! I'm pretty sure most of the multiple-failure people have a problem like this (i.e. TV setting, TV issue, cable issue, etc.). Unfortunately, too many people can't diagnose properly, and just keep blaming the "new thing".


 For some, that may be fine. But if you have an HDMI DVD player, and that works, then the 250 should also work.


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## hoffa

STi_Rocky said:


> For some, that may be fine. But if you have an HDMI DVD player, and that works, then the 250 should also work.


By no means am I saying that everyone is as dumb as me.


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## BobbyK

I have an LG 50in plasma but have no such setting. My new HD receiver arrived from D* today. I'll hook it up and see what happens.


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## BobbyK

Received 2 refurbished HD units. Neither one had a working HDMI port. I have checked my system completely. Hooked up a DVD Player with HDMI and it worked fine. Also, while returning the last one, ran into a gentleman at fedex returning HD unit for the SAME reason. They are obviously not checking these ports out before shipping them out.


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## mfleming

Wow! I purchased my unit two summers ago. HDMI Didn't work and I returned it (not for a replacement since I then found this forum and didn't want the hassle). I stayed current with the forum for around six months, reading about the continuing troubles and the apparent lack of desire of DTV to fix the box. So, I gave up.

I saw the unit at BestBuy yesterday for $399 (with rebate) so I thought I'd come back to the forum to see if the problems are now resolved. Best Buy guys said they have had ZERO problems. I started reading the forum....Unbelievable!!!!! It's been nearly a year and a half and it sounds like it's exactly the way I left it. DTV still playing games, people looking for techie fixes....

And I thought there might be an alternative box by now, but apparently this is not to be. I understand DTV's HD DVR will not be out until, when, mid next year? 

And to think I purchased that $3500 TV two years just so I could have a HD TV for my new 250 coming my way!

DTV should be sued for this. Talk about mental anguish.


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## cmeinck

I thought I was one of the lucky ones. I own two HD Tivos and they were just humming along until a few nights ago. I experienced bigtime choppiness and green static while watching a recorded program. Two days later, I'm getting no signal from either HDMI or component. I just got off the phone with DirecTV and they were "unaware" of any known issues with the box. I find that hard to believe given the amount of posts here at Tivocommunity. I mentioned the "hundreds" of posts regarding the issue. They are Fedexing a unit to be here by Tuesday. 

This is a reminder to myself to purchase the D* protection plan before my warranty is up on these units.


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## Bilbrey

cmeinck said:


> This is a reminder to myself to purchase the D* protection plan before my warranty is up on these units.


I don't know how useful that will be...

[rant]
I purchased the DirecTV protection plan, but when I had a problem with my Toshiba DST-3000 receiver, DirecTV failed to honor repairing it. I was pissed. Long story that I won't go into here.
[/rant]


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## tucsontiger

You'll love this. D* has not shipped me three 10-250's. I get one about every other day. I really wonder how many are yet to come. The first one is still working, though I am less than two weeks out. Last night while watching a recorded program, I heard some buzzing noise and I suspect this could be the clarion call of death. That would make sense since I just fedexed the last two back to D*. Let's hope I am wrong.


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## cmeinck

As per my previous post, I was getting "no signal" from my HDMI cable on my HDTivo. The prior evening, a recorded show was unwatchable, freezing and green lines appearing. I was able to get the Tivo working using S-Video. I figured this way I could watch the remaining shows before shipping back to D*. Yesterday, I got a new TV, so decided to plug in the HDMI from the Tivo. Well, for whatever reason, it worked. My first thought was there had to be a problem with my other TV. I plugged in the HDMI to the other set and it worked. Now, I have already called D* and they shipped a new/refurbed HDTIVO. I'm guessing that the old one, while working properly, is about to fail. Should I still do the swap?

Looking forward to feedback here at Tivocommunity as to my next step.


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## Bilbrey

cmeinck said:


> As per my previous post, I was getting "no signal" from my HDMI cable on my HDTivo. The prior evening, a recorded show was unwatchable, freezing and green lines appearing. I was able to get the Tivo working using S-Video. I figured this way I could watch the remaining shows before shipping back to D*. Yesterday, I got a new TV, so decided to plug in the HDMI from the Tivo. Well, for whatever reason, it worked. My first thought was there had to be a problem with my other TV. I plugged in the HDMI to the other set and it worked. Now, I have already called D* and they shipped a new/refurbed HDTIVO. I'm guessing that the old one, while working properly, is about to fail. Should I still do the swap?
> 
> Looking forward to feedback here at Tivocommunity as to my next step.


Yes, you should still do the swap.

When my unit failed, it went out for about an hour (I turned the unit off and let it cool down). When I booted it back up, it ran fine... for about 2 days and then failed forever. _actually until I fixed it myself..._

Watch any programs you can and sent the unit back.


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## JimL

I just realized I posted this question on the wrong thread:

With my HR10-250 my previous set did not have HDMI so it was not an issue connecting. Recently we purchased a new SXRD and I initially connected it with the same component cables - perfect picture. I then remembered I had the HDMI cables that came with the unit and plugged it into the TV - changed inputs - and the picture was this varying shades of blue - negative image sort of picture with no sound - totally unwatchable. I thought about buying new HDMI cables to try till I read some of the posts here which changed my mind. Has this occurred to anyone else or does anyone know what I should try next? I am also reading conflicting posts here as to whether the HDMI issue has or has not been fixed. Thanks


----------



## tem

It's dead, Jim.


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## JimL

Ok, I'm not being a smart a** here - but do you mean the HDMI issue is dead (because it has been fixed) or my HDMI port is dead (so no use trying any other cables)? Thanks


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## tem

The HDMI port is hosed. Classic symptoms. Call and try to get a replacement. They should NOT tie you down to another 2 yr commitment if its still under the 1yr warranty.


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## joetoronto

does anybody really notice a difference between HDMI and componet?


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## Bilbrey

joetoronto said:


> does anybody really notice a difference between HDMI and componet?


I believe this depends on the quality of the display and how that display samples the data.

I personally tend to see a little more noise in the component signals. This could be because of the analog sampling nature of the component signal.

HDMI with a solid TMDS transmitter will look great, but if you have a bad transmitter or on some displays a bad receiver, then you can see 'speckling'. But when HDMI (or DVI) is working, the display is great.


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## AbMagFab

joetoronto said:


> does anybody really notice a difference between HDMI and componet?


I definitely do on both my TV's:

Sony 50" LCD RP (768p)
Sony 60" SXRD RP (1080p)


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## joetoronto

i asked because i've never even tried the HDMI due to the potential troubles i read about here before buying mine.

i didn't, and don't, want to take the risk of my tivo going dead.


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## power3960

I just purchased a new TV with HDMI connectivity. I've owned the HR10-250 since it was released and HDMI connection worked perfectly. I'm not sure if I see much of a picture difference from it vs. component cables. 

Just my 2 cents...


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## AbMagFab

power3960 said:


> I just purchased a new TV with HDMI connectivity. I've owned the HR10-250 since it was released and HDMI connection worked perfectly. I'm not sure if I see much of a picture difference from it vs. component cables.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...


Unless you specify the TV, this is a meaningless opinion. If you have an EDTV, you won't see any difference. If you have a CRT, you might not see anything. If you have a 720p/768p digital TV with no extraneous DACs, you'll see some difference. If you have a good 1080p TV with no extra DACs, you'll see a noticable difference.


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## KungFuCow

My 4th unit in enroute.. my last one had the HDMI port go out on it.


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## Klankster

My HDMI port died a couple of months after I got my HR10-250. I notified the dealer so he'd know that it happened under warranty, but the hassle of reprogramming all my stuff into a new unit wasn't worth doing a swap, not to mention that, from the postings here, I could have gotten a much worse unit.

I've been using the component output and it works just fine.

THE BIG QUESTION: While researching this topic yesterday, I noticed that WeaKnees sells a replacement HDMI card for the -250. Has anyone here bought one? Just wondering if it really works (more than a couple of months, ha ha).


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## beaster

AbMagFab said:


> Unless you specify the TV, this is a meaningless opinion. If you have an EDTV, you won't see any difference. If you have a CRT, you might not see anything. If you have a 720p/768p digital TV with no extraneous DACs, you'll see some difference. If you have a good 1080p TV with no extra DACs, you'll see a noticable difference.


We also need to factor in the source. The D* HD feeds are so poor these days (esp. when Sunday Ticket was consuming all available transponder bandwidth), that I'm not sure the digital out is going to make a noticeable difference on even good, digital HD displays. Sure, generally speaking the fewer digital -> analog or analog -> digital conversions in the data stream, the better. Personally, I've looked at both HDMI and component on three relatively high quality displays (720p LCD projector, 720p flat panel LCD, 720p LCD RPTV), and don't see much of a difference on the D* feeds.

OTA is maybe a little better over HDMI - maybe. But I'm suspcious of my own eye and biases - without a double-blind test (or heck, even a single-blind), I wonder if I'm not reading something into the difference that isn't there.

-Sean


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## AbMagFab

beaster said:


> We also need to factor in the source. The D* HD feeds are so poor these days (esp. when Sunday Ticket was consuming all available transponder bandwidth), that I'm not sure the digital out is going to make a noticeable difference on even good, digital HD displays. Sure, generally speaking the fewer digital -> analog or analog -> digital conversions in the data stream, the better. Personally, I've looked at both HDMI and component on three relatively high quality displays (720p LCD projector, 720p flat panel LCD, 720p LCD RPTV), and don't see much of a difference on the D* feeds.
> 
> OTA is maybe a little better over HDMI - maybe. But I'm suspcious of my own eye and biases - without a double-blind test (or heck, even a single-blind), I wonder if I'm not reading something into the difference that isn't there.
> 
> -Sean


Don't need double-blind. Connect HDMI and Component to the TV, and try each one.

On my 1080p Digital TV (SXRD 60"), I can tell you OTA is noticably better via HDMI. I think TV type, quality, resolution, and size all matter. But there is a very visible difference.


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## vertigo235

Getting one tomorrow, so if I get a unit without a date on it, I *shouldn't* have this problem? Can I find out what the HDMI card # is that CCS is talking about without opening the box?


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## Markyt

In the last year and a half I have had four of these failures. I'll bring it back to Circuit City and exchange it under the extended warranty plan. The only good thing when I do this is that they refund me the amount of money that the sell price has fallen on these guys each time I bring one in and the two year warranty gets reset to day one again.

I just wish that DTV had the new MPEG4 machines out so that I could exchange it for one of those.


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## joetoronto

Markyt said:


> In the last year and a half I have had four of these failures. I'll bring it back to Circuit City and exchange it under the extended warranty plan. The only good thing when I do this is that they refund me the amount of money that the sell price has fallen on these guys each time I bring one in and the two year warranty gets reset to day one again.
> 
> I just wish that DTV had the new MPEG4 machines out so that I could exchange it for one of those.


i'm wondering if you've ever thought about NOT using the HDMI, Markyt?


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## teasip

The card number is printed on the card itself. You would have to remove the cover to see it. I haven't made the effort to look at the replacement card that Weaknees sells but the issue on the HDMI appears to be one of a bad solder. CCS repairs this. Once I broke down and decided to take the chance on the repair it was painless. Kudos to CCS.


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## joetoronto

AbMagFab said:


> Unless you specify the TV, this is a meaningless opinion. If you have an EDTV, you won't see any difference. If you have a CRT, you might not see anything. If you have a 720p/768p digital TV with no extraneous DACs, you'll see some difference. If you have a good 1080p TV with no extra DACs, you'll see a noticable difference.


so then i should expect a _big_ difference on a good new 50" plasma, AbMagFab?


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## Markyt

joetoronto said:


> i'm wondering if you've ever thought about NOT using the HDMI, Markyt?


I am until I have time to bring it in. The HDMI is broke and it's under warranty. That is reason enough to bring it in, plus CC will refund to me that amount of the reduced price to me. I originally paid $1000 for it, they have refunded $250 since and it should be another $150 now (depending how it goes with the new DTV leasing thing). I also have mutliple component output devices and have used up all the component inputs on the tv.

Mark


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## joetoronto

Markyt said:


> I am until I have time to bring it in. The HDMI is broke and it's under warranty. That is reason enough to bring it in, plus CC will refund to me that amount of the reduced price to me. I originally paid $1000 for it, they have refunded $250 since and it should be another $150 now (depending how it goes with the new DTV leasing thing). I also have mutliple component output devices and have used up all the component inputs on the tv.
> 
> Mark


you should think about getting one of these , Markyt.

i have one and the thing is amazing, it controls up to 4 component/optical sources with a built in sensor, digitally.

it did the trick for me and it beats running video through an audio receiver, like i was doing before.

it makes for a cleaner picture.


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## Markyt

you should think about getting one of these , Markyt.

i have one and the thing is amazing, it controls up to 4 component/optical sources with a built in sensor, digitally.

it did the trick for me and it beats running video through an audio receiver, like i was doing before.

it makes for a cleaner picture. 

Thanks for you advice but I'll opt for the free brand new replacement HR10-250 that CC will give me. Or maybe wait for a MPEG4 DVR to hit the store and replace it with that.


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## alexandrepsf

Hi,

I recently bought a TV with an HDMI input and wanted to test my HD DTivo box HDMI output on the TV, no luck.

I wanted to know how can I figure out if the HDMI card in my box is one of the deffective cards or not? 

I bought the HDTivo box on May 2005, I know it was a refurbished box so not sure when it was built.

Thanks for your help.
Alex


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## newsposter

people here have said that if there is no build date on the back of the machine, that it has the newer card. Somewhere here (unless i'm confusing my forums) are the serial numbers on the boards i believe. Hopefully either a search or another member will enlighten you more.


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## alexandrepsf

Thanks for the reply.

I looked and could not find my Serial Number in this thread, there is no creation date on the box though.

I tried with a new HDMI box and it did not work either.

Called D*. The person suggested me to try the box on another TV with HDMI to make sure it is not my new TV's problem. i mentioned that I pay $8 a month for service on this box and the only service that they provided me is that I need to find a neighbor to see if the box is working or not. When i mentioned that I heard about some of the builds of this box having problem with HDMI output after that she talked to her manager she said that it is the process to make sure that they will not send out a technician if the problem is with the TV.

I am so pissed. i will call them later, but right now I could just eat the early terminasion fee and drop D*.


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## teasip

Go to the CCS website (company that does the HDMI card repairs) and read about the faulty cards. As I recall they give you the faulty serial number to look for (printed on the HDMI card inside the unit which is easily removable). Mine was one of those, took it out, shipped it off, back in one week, working great since. Yes, it costs $100 but a good investment in my opinion, especially if you got your HR10-250 discounted.


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## alexandrepsf

I am paying a monthly fee for their service plan, why should I pay $100 for the repair? They are in fault in here. 

I paid for the box, it did not come to me for free.


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## Seminole

I just got a new tv and tried hooking up the HDMI which did not work and was not surprised at all as I know this was a issue when I bought the box 18 months ago but my old tv did not have a HDMI input.

I guess I will have to start fighthing the battle with D* to get another box but I will not sign up for2 more years as I have just about had it with D* and once FIOS is available in my area I am leaving D*


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## Seminole

I just got a new one being sent out with no comitment because I have the protection plan I was told. They were very nice about the whole situation had me try a few things and agreed to send a new one.


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## kenyjr

I got mine 3/12 went out 3/14 got a new one and it went out but now im have a hard time with d they say they will replace it in tell the new ones come out in june i've tired three times so far.


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## Brillian1080p

Please pardon me for asking, how can I tell where it was made?

There is nothing about it on the back of the unit.

Mine was manufactured August of 2004. I just now was able to try the HDMI and I get nothing. It does knock out the component signal, so something is happening.


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## Seminole

Brillian1080p said:


> Please pardon me for asking, how can I tell where it was made?
> 
> There is nothing about it on the back of the unit.
> 
> Mine was manufactured August of 2004. I just now was able to try the HDMI and I get nothing. It does knock out the component signal, so something is happening.


That is what mine is doing as well I hope my new refurb box works ok.


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## newsposter

Brillian1080p said:


> Please pardon me for asking, how can I tell where it was made?
> 
> There is nothing about it on the back of the unit.
> 
> Mine was manufactured August of 2004. I just now was able to try the HDMI and I get nothing. It does knock out the component signal, so something is happening.


There's a thread somewhere with the specifics, i forget them. But it was something like if it has no date, it's 2005? or after and has the new hdmi card.


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## yngdiego

Mine died today on me...unit was about 18 months old, and was a replacement for my first unit where the HD died on me. Spent 2.5 hours on the phone to get a out of warranty replacement with the 2year service contract waived. Had to make several calls, talk/yell at several managers, etc. Not at all a pleasant experience.


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## symneter

I have had this unit for 11.5 months and tried the HDMI for the first time since buying a new Samsung front projector. HDMI worked for 30 second, then pow! I have a replacement coming. The strange thing is this. When I went back to using the component input, the reds are now smeared or blotchy. Is there a connection to the HDMI failure? Just wondered if anyone had ever experienced this. I scanned most of this thread, but if it has been covered, sorry.

Symneter


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## Bilbrey

symneter said:


> I have had this unit for 11.5 months and tried the HDMI for the first time since buying a new Samsung front projector. HDMI worked for 30 second, then pow! I have a replacement coming. The strange thing is this. When I went back to using the component input, the reds are now smeared or blotchy. Is there a connection to the HDMI failure? Just wondered if anyone had ever experienced this. I scanned most of this thread, but if it has been covered, sorry.
> 
> Symneter


I've not had that experience. There 'should be no connection', but _obviously_ I can't tell from here what happened...


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## MoInSTL

symneter said:


> I have had this unit for 11.5 months and tried the HDMI for the first time since buying a new Samsung front projector. HDMI worked for 30 second, then pow! I have a replacement coming. The strange thing is this. When I went back to using the component input, the reds are now smeared or blotchy. Is there a connection to the HDMI failure? Just wondered if anyone had ever experienced this. I scanned most of this thread, but if it has been covered, sorry.
> 
> Symneter


Searching the thread, your's is the first description that is similar to my problem. I switched HDMI cable first, then to component and it looks like 256 colors on a PC and faces in particular look bad. Very red and almost mask-like. Reminds me of a color negative. They are sending a new box, but I am wondering is you recall if yours looked like 256 colors on a PC as well.


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## looter

Mine failed a few months ago. Can I change my answer? I purchased it earlier this year. Hecho en Mexíco.


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## ebr

My HDTivo is an original. Got it in June of 2003. Didn't use the HDMI connection until about six weeks ago and it worked fine until yesterday when I upgraded the unit with a second hard drive so that I could record more HD movies to watch with my new fabulous HDMI connection. When I hooked it back up after the upgrade - no video or audio via HDMI but it does cut off the component output.

Is there any hope for me?


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## teasip

CSS, $100, turnaround time approximately one week. Do a search for specifics.


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## Bilbrey

ebr said:


> Is there any hope for me?


I fixed my own by resoldering the connector. (See pictures earlier in this thread)


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## optimusprime44

This wasn't about the HDMI cables. The whole thing will not work after just one day of being installed.


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## Bilbrey

optimusprime44 said:


> This wasn't about the HDMI cables. The whole thing will not work after just one day of being installed.


Sorry, skimming too quick.

Well, that sucks.


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## snooplives

Last week my Panasonic 50" RPLCD got back from service. I plugged in the HDTivo to my dvi input. The picture looked flourescent. I thought it was the tv. Tried the component input and the pic was fine. Called D*, and they said I have to have a service call, which is today. Why can't they just send me a new one?

I told them the HDMI is a known issue, but of course the CSR didn't know what I was talking about.


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## mgoddard1

Too bad you can change change your original response to the poll because mine failed 2 weeks ago. I bought mine in May of 2004 so it was one of the original ones and since I had 'enhanced' my hdtivo with a larger drive and some other unamed software modifications I had no desire to send it back to directv. Instead I sent my HDMI card to these guys:
http://www.ccscorporation.net/PVR_T.htm
and I had it back within a week and it works perfect. They did a nice job of reworking the main board connector and even reinforced some of the pins with solder to prevent it from happening again.


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## cwest02

my didnt work as soon as i got it, the installer said it was my tv, i check with an tv and it was the box, everything was green, called they are sending me one overnight for free


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## Avenger

Yeah, mine quit suddenly after 14 months of service. The TV will not establish an electronic connection to the HDMI card at all. Now using Component and I'm not happy about it. Maybe I'll have to ship the card off to CSS to get fixed.


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## Bilbrey

OK, earlier in this thread I posted some pictures which I hosted on my own web page (a year ago...).

Had some time off, cleaned up a few things, cleared out old images from the website.

A few days later I got an e-mail asking me for the pictures... So I put them back as they seem to be still helpful.


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## BlankMan

Well after using my HR10-250 for 2-1/2 years via the component connections I finally purchased a HDTV that has HDMI connections so I figured why not use them. Well as I now find out, because my HDMI card is bad, that's why not.

Read this whole thread earlier today to get an understanding of the problem, 90% *****ing about the problem and about DTV, 10% actual constructive troubleshooting and problem/solution analysis.

Looks like Brett nailed it, by the way I have to move and hold the board to get it to work matches with the rotation of the board then putting pressure on the connections under the connector making any bad connections. Let's CCS's super secret cat out of the bag.

But hey, CCS is right, that's a difficult fix and without the proper equipment impossible for the average Joe to do so it's worth the hundred bucks. I have two buddies that might be able to do it, one owns his own board house, the other runs the SMT production for a Fortune 50 company. Either would probably be able to do it, but both are unknowns, so I'll be going with the known and send mine out to CCS.

Then I'll hit DTV up for having to send money to fix a known problem they chose to never address.

And thanks for those pics Brett.


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## Bilbrey

BlankMan said:


> But hey, CCS is right, that's a difficult fix and without the proper equipment impossible for the average Joe to do so it's worth the hundred bucks. I have two buddies that might be able to do it, one owns his own board house, the other runs the SMT production for a Fortune 50 company. Either would probably be able to do it, but both are unknowns, so I'll be going with the known and send mine out to CCS.


With the 'right' gear, it is pretty easy. But the trick is having the right gear. 



BlankMan said:


> Then I'll hit DTV up for having to send money to fix a known problem they chose to never address.


I'm thinking this qualifies for Class Action Lawsuit...



BlankMan said:


> And thanks for those pics Brett.


Your welcome, and I will leave them up for others since they are proving helpful.


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## BlankMan

Got my HDMI card back today from CCS. It appears they completely removed the connector and re-installed it. I say that because the red lump of glue that was under the mounting studs on both ends of the connector are gone. And I can see lumps of solder on each of the pins on the back side of the connector. Looks like hand soldering.

But the jury's still out for a bit. When I first installed it and powered up the box there was no picture via the HDMI port until the unit got to the "Almost there" screen. I'm not too alarmed at that, could be that the unit had to once again discover the card. Because I then powered it down to put the cover on and afterwards on power up I got the "Welcome" screen right away.

But, in switching between inputs on the TV, from using the TV's internal HD tuner to the HDMI port connected to the HR10-250 I got a green screen. Completely green, sound was there though. So I switched the TV to a different input and then back to that HDMI input and the picture was there.

I don't like unexplained anomalies, thus I'm hoping this problem is really, completely, fixed and is not going to rear its ugly head again in the future.


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## webpowered

My first HD TiVo never worked with HDMI. I got the card repaired from CCS, and it worked for about 6 weeks then started giving me a blue screen saying TiVo overheating and shutting itself down. Even after restart my TiVo wouldn't last more than a few minutes before going to that blue screen warning. Switched to 3-color component connection and it worked fine. I even sent the card back to CCS who tested it and said it's fine, but it still didn't work in the unit.

That same TiVo finally died, when Hard Drive died. DirecTV replaced it with refurbished model that worked great. Then a few months later the tuners burned out on it, and DirecTV replaced with a third TiVo I'm using now. HDMI worked for about 6 weeks, then I got the same blue screen overheating message, so switched to 3-color component. The Hard Drive is going on this one too. I get spontaneous restarts almost every day, sometimes more than once a day.

I use a Sharp Acquos LCD. Some people on this forum have reported some sync problems with HDMI on some Sharp TVs and other brands too. It seems strange to me though that it will work fine for about 6 weeks.

I don't really want the Mpg4 DVR, so am trying to keep using these HD TiVo's as long as possible, but comcast using series3 HD TiVo and cable card is tempting! They have Stz-HD and Cinemax-HD which would be nice!!

When will DirecTV have more HD satellite channels? (Not just the locals in separate markets)_


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## mfleming

Hello,

After giving up years ago on this unit due to hdmi failure and periodically coming back to see no fix is yet done, I'm back again after a year or so absence. Is it the same old thing still? Or can I safely buy one? Or is there somewhere I can buy one where they fix them before selling them?

I've got a DTV Plus HD DVR in a box I bought a few weeks ago from Costco, but I've been waiting for my HD network station waivers to come in before opening it up. But, I still have much trepidation using that box since I have a non-HD similar DVR on another tv and it just does not compare to Tivo.

I want my (HD) Tivo!!!!


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## Sparky

After a long few years of service my HDMI card gave up the ghost. It had been acting flakey for some time and I did the open the box and reseat thing. This last time it did not come back  

After investigating I see I can get a replacement for $250. With that in mind I called D* and said I was having picture freezes and audio drop outs, not mentioning the HDMI thing. They told me to do the big reset which wipes out everything, which I proceeded to do. 

While on the wire I decided to upgrade and will be hit with $299 and 3 or 4 months of free HD service. Just about even as far as the bucks are concerned. So in a couple of weeks I'll get a new dish & DVR. 

The past few days the picture has quit freezing and the audio seems fine but I have not checked the OTA Fox station which is where I noticed the most audio problems.


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