# Soft Picture Quality even with video passthrough enabled



## jwort93 (Dec 18, 2015)

So I have been running some picture quality tests on my Bolt and I've found that the picture quality is significantly softer on both my 2016 Vizio P-series TV, and my LG B6 Oled via the TiVos, than it is if I copy the recording directly off of the TiVo and play it back through my Nvidia Shield TV via Plex or Kodi.

I have tried using both video passthrough, i.e. enabling all of the separate output resolutions on the TiVo (720p, 1080i, etc.), and allowing the TV to perform the scaling, as well as using the internal TiVo scaler to do the scaling to 4k.

I have found that while the TV scaler is better than the internal TiVo scaler, the picture quality still looks nowhere near as good as playing the file on the shield TV, which does the scaling to 4k itself. I have tried messing with the various sharpness and picture settings on the TV when playing back through the TiVos, but all it seems to do is introduce artificial sharpness, which results in annoying ringing on the picture. The shield produces a much sharper picture without the ringing.

Is this simply a case of the Shield TV having much better scaling capabilities than the TiVo? I thought that was the case, so I bought a DVDO iScan Mini 4k video scaler, and while it seems to do a better upscaling job than the TV, or the TiVo, it still doesn't look as nearly as sharp as playing the recording file via the Shield TV.

Has anyone else noticed this? Does anyone have any suggestions to get better picture quality direct from the TiVo, even if it means buying additional video processors?

I am thinking about buying a Darbee DVP-5000S video processor when they restock soon and putting it in line before the DVDO scaler, because I have heard great things about it, but I am not sure if it is the next logical step to take in improving the TiVo picture quality.

As you can probably tell, I am kind of willing to do anything to get the best picture quality possible from my cable TV haha. I would be satisfied with copying all of my recordings off of the TiVo with kttmg and just playing them back through the shield TV, but I have Charter Spectrum in a previously Time Warner area, and all channels but my local channels are unfortunately not marked copy freely, so that is not feasible.

Any insight would be appreciated!

Thanks!


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## cybergrimes (Jun 15, 2015)

I've been in the same boat since I upgraded to a 2016 Vizio P series also. Previously I didn't have much comparison but ever since I switched to the new set back in November I've really found the TiVo's picture to be quite soft. For example the 720p OTA signal from my local PBS affiliate actually looks softer than casting the same program at 480p from the PBS app on my phone.

I think @aaronwt uses the Darblet units, he might be able to give you some advice


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I don't use the Darblets with my UHD set and Bolts. I tried it before and did not like the results.


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## jwort93 (Dec 18, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> I don't use the Darblets with my UHD set and Bolts. I tried it before and did not like the results.


Just curious, what didn't you like with the Darblets and the bolt? Do you have any suggestions for getting better picture quality with my UHD sets?


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

It could just be the source or the TV. Vizios are well known for being horrible at upscaling 720p content


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jwort93 said:


> Just curious, what didn't you like with the Darblets and the bolt? Do you have any suggestions for getting better picture quality with my UHD sets?


It wasn't specific to the Bolts. Just using the Darblet with 720P, 1080i, 1080P and then having my Sony UHD TV upscale to 2160P. I did not like the way it looked. If they ever come out with a 4K Darblet that handles HDR I would pick that up. Since I really like how the Darblet works with my 1080P TVs.


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## blobly (Aug 5, 2009)

I noticed some softness also - especially on Amazon videos compared to streaming off of a fire TV.
In the resolutions - I unchecked auto and checked 720 and 1080 and it seems better.
Possibly just have to live with a softer picture


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## tivoboy (Jan 14, 2002)

Is it better to send a 1080p signal to the 4K tv's and let the TV do the upscaling? I just put in an LG OLED B6, I'd like to think the scaler in that tv is better than the bolts, but how to force it to do the work rather than send the 2160 rez that the tivo bolt is syncing?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tivoboy said:


> Is it better to send a 1080p signal to the 4K tv's and let the TV do the upscaling? I just put in an LG OLED B6, I'd like to think the scaler in that tv is better than the bolts, but how to force it to do the work rather than send the 2160 rez that the tivo bolt is syncing?


Just make sure 2160P60 and 2160P24 is unchecked in the TiVo Output. Then the TV will do all the scaling to 2160P.


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## blobly (Aug 5, 2009)

aaronwt said:


> Just make sure 2160P60 and 2160P24 is unchecked in the TiVo Output. Then the TV will do all the scaling to 2160P.


That's not the way to go, IMO.
If you uncheck 4k resolution, then Bolt is going to downgrade any 4k resolution to 1080p and send 1080p to your TV which will then have to upconvert it to 4k.
If you keep 1080i /p and 4k checked then tivo will only convert resolutions under 1080, otherwise it will send unconverted HD and 4k to Tv


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

blobly said:


> That's not the way to go, IMO.
> If you uncheck 4k resolution, then Bolt is going to downgrade any 4k resolution to 1080p and send 1080p to your TV which will then have to upconvert it to 4k.
> If you keep 1080i /p and 4k checked then tivo will only convert resolutions under 1080, otherwise it will send unconverted HD and 4k to Tv


Agree. I prefer my Sony 930D scaling, so I keep all resolutions checked, including 480i/p and 720. I wish there was a top-level 'pass through' option, so as not to have to visit the resolutions page at all.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

blobly said:


> That's not the way to go, IMO.
> If you uncheck 4k resolution, then Bolt is going to downgrade any 4k resolution to 1080p and send 1080p to your TV which will then have to upconvert it to 4k.
> If you keep 1080i /p and 4k checked then tivo will only convert resolutions under 1080, otherwise it will send unconverted HD and 4k to Tv


There are only two 4K apps on the Bolt. And the Bolt doesn't do HDR. So I don't even bother using those apps from the Bolt. Since if I watch Youtube or Netflix, I want the capability to have HDR as well as 4K. I gave up on the video apps from the Bolt. Many other devices have far surpassed what the Bolt does with apps.

Although you can check 2160P24 and not 2160P60 and that still won't scale the TV content to 2160P. But will still allow access to Netflix at 2160P24 for the content with a 24P framerate.


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## blobly (Aug 5, 2009)

Interesting, hadn't thought of HDR.
I am not really happy with the Video quality of the Bolt, but can deal with it for everything else it offers.


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## tivoboy (Jan 14, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Just make sure 2160P60 and 2160P24 is unchecked in the TiVo Output. Then the TV will do all the scaling to 2160P.


Does one choose automatic, but uncheck those resolutions?


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## brandenwan (Nov 6, 2015)

@jwort93 and others... The TiVo's picture quality pertaining to video is visually lower than any other source I have connected to my 3 4k TVs. This isn't an opinion. It is a quantifiable fact. If you compare 4k or 1080p through Netflix or Amazon on TiVo to the same on an AFTV 4K streamer/TV, Roku/ RokuTV, Nvidia Shield or a computer outputting the aforementioned resolutions, you will see that the picture quality is lower on the TiVo. On the flip side, all the menus, text and other visual elements are flawless on the TiVo which really infuriates me. It must have something do with how the TiVo manages digital video. Whatever poses as a graphics card in their box either needs a software update or a replacement. It is frustrating to know that I have this amazing box that does it all, but can't seem to get its video quite right. So... I end up using one of those other sources I mentioned to watch my favorite shows that stream like _Stranger Things_ or _The Man in The High Castle_. It almost feels like everything is being pushed through Citrix on a thin client. There is always that lingering hint of a Gaussian-like blur effect overlaying the video at all times. TiVo's issue is a GIANT PINK ELEPHANT in the room that thinks it's being well-hidden by a spruce sapling. They never own up to it. It will NEVER be a talking point. Instead, they will tell you adjust this, change that, check this, reset that....They may never admit it, but I can't wait to see them try to talk their way out of the issue (that they will say is not an issue) when they attempt to implement HDR. Oh and apparently someone got tired waiting for Amazon 4K to come to TiVo because it has been showing up in the app. I watched the Amazing Mrs. Maisel on it and it said UHD. *VERIFIED. *Thanks TiVo for the heads-up (not) LOL.
I still luv u TiVo... I'm just not 'in-love' with you anymore. That's all.


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## brandenwan (Nov 6, 2015)

brandenwan said:


> @jwort93 and others... The TiVo's picture quality pertaining to video is visually lower than any other source I have connected to my 3 4k TVs. This isn't an opinion. It is a quantifiable fact. If you compare 4k or 1080p through Netflix or Amazon on TiVo to the same on an AFTV 4K streamer/TV, Roku/ RokuTV, Nvidia Shield or a computer outputting the aforementioned resolutions, you will see that the picture quality is lower on the TiVo. On the flip side, all the menus, text and other visual elements are flawless on the TiVo which really infuriates me. It must have something do with how the TiVo manages digital video. Whatever poses as a graphics card in their box either needs a software update or a replacement. It is frustrating to know that I have this amazing box that does it all, but can't seem to get its video quite right. So... I end up using one of those other sources I mentioned to watch my favorite shows that stream like _Stranger Things_ or _The Man in The High Castle_. It almost feels like everything is being pushed through Citrix on a thin client. There is always that lingering hint of a Gaussian-like blur effect overlaying the video at all times. TiVo's issue is a GIANT PINK ELEPHANT in the room that thinks it's being well-hidden by a spruce sapling. They never own up to it. It will NEVER be a talking point. Instead, they will tell you adjust this, change that, check this, reset that....They may never admit it, but I can't wait to see them try to talk their way out of the issue (that they will say is not an issue) when they attempt to implement HDR. Oh and apparently someone got tired waiting for Amazon 4K to come to TiVo because it has been showing up in the app. I watched the Amazing Mrs. Maisel on it and it said UHD. *VERIFIED. *Thanks TiVo for the heads-up (not) LOL.
> I still luv u TiVo... I'm just not 'in-love' with you anymore. That's all.


Just wanted to add... in all fairness, if most of these apps on TiVo are indeed web-based, then it was never really up to TiVo in the first place to 'launch' UHD for Amazon. If that is the case, then hooray for Amazon, it is finally here!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

brandenwan said:


> @jwort93 and others... The TiVo's picture quality pertaining to video is visually lower than any other source I have connected to my 3 4k TVs. This isn't an opinion. It is a quantifiable fact. If you compare 4k or 1080p through Netflix or Amazon on TiVo to the same on an AFTV 4K streamer/TV, Roku/ RokuTV, Nvidia Shield or a computer outputting the aforementioned resolutions, you will see that the picture quality is lower on the TiVo. On the flip side, all the menus, text and other visual elements are flawless on the TiVo which really infuriates me. It must have something do with how the TiVo manages digital video. Whatever poses as a graphics card in their box either needs a software update or a replacement. It is frustrating to know that I have this amazing box that does it all, but can't seem to get its video quite right. So... I end up using one of those other sources I mentioned to watch my favorite shows that stream like _Stranger Things_ or _The Man in The High Castle_. It almost feels like everything is being pushed through Citrix on a thin client. There is always that lingering hint of a Gaussian-like blur effect overlaying the video at all times. TiVo's issue is a GIANT PINK ELEPHANT in the room that thinks it's being well-hidden by a spruce sapling. They never own up to it. It will NEVER be a talking point. Instead, they will tell you adjust this, change that, check this, reset that....They may never admit it, but I can't wait to see them try to talk their way out of the issue (that they will say is not an issue) when they attempt to implement HDR. Oh and apparently someone got tired waiting for Amazon 4K to come to TiVo because it has been showing up in the app. I watched the Amazing Mrs. Maisel on it and it said UHD. *VERIFIED. *Thanks TiVo for the heads-up (not) LOL.
> I still luv u TiVo... I'm just not 'in-love' with you anymore. That's all.


The Amazon app on the Bolt has been UHD capable for a few months now. But without HDR it's useless. I would never watch Man in the High Castle on a device that doesn't have HDR. WHich the TiVos don't.

As far as picture quality, I've only compared Netflix with the Netflix UHD test pattern. And the Bolt and Mini Vox resolved the full 3840x2160 resolution like my other UHD devices do, when playing back that UHD Netflix test pattern.


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