# Cancellations 5/12/16



## camyahoo (Jan 5, 2012)

Agent Carter
Galavant
The Muppets
CSI Cyber

Also saw that Super Girl is moving to the CW, from CBS.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

camyahoo said:


> Agent Carter
> The Muppets


I'll miss both of these.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

'Castle'

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/12/castle-canceled-abc


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Nashville


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## AnnaBanana (Oct 23, 2006)

The Grinder (not happy about this at all)

Grandfathered


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

camyahoo said:


> Also saw that Super Girl is moving to the CW, from CBS.


It always felt like a CW show anyway.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


> Nashville


bummer :down:


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

AnnaBanana said:


> The Grinder (not happy about this at all)


Screw you Fox!!! I really enjoyed that show.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Hoffer said:


> Screw you Fox!!! I really enjoyed that show.


BIH, Fox

FIFY.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

#GrinderRests


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Wow! There's not one show y'all mentioned that I watch.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Going to miss Nashville and Castle. I enjoyed The Muppets, but won't really miss it all that much.

The only show I have left that I watch on ABC is SHIELD.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Shield and Last Man Standing (hopefully it gets Renewed) are all that's left on ABC for me. Going to miss Agent Carter


Sent from my iPhone


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

osu1991 said:


> Shield and Last Man Standing (hopefully it gets Renewed) are all that's left on ABC for me. Going to miss Agent Carter


Isn't there going to be another SHIELD spinoff with Bobbi & Hunter that I have heard is supposed to air in Agent Carter's place next season?

Also, Fox cancelled Cooper Barrett's Guide to Surviving Life (not surprising, as its last three episodes were replaced by Simpsons repeats, and even its 11:30 PM Saturday night slot was replaced by The Grinder) and Bordertown (another non-surprise, given that its renewal would have to have been announced already in order to get it ready for next season).

One Fox show not mentioned on the cancellation list that surprises me a little: Sleepy Hollow (although the official word will come on Monday when the schedule is announced).


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

That Don Guy said:


> Isn't there going to be another SHIELD spinoff with Bobbi & Hunter that I have heard is supposed to air in Agent Carter's place next season?


It was titled "Marvel's Most Wanted." It had a pilot ordered, but it was passed on by ABC today and will not proceed to series.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

I'll miss Castle and Nashville. My only ABC shows now are SHIELD and Grey's Anatomy.


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Will miss Castle, so much! I'll also miss Agent Carter - and will never understand why it didn't get better ratings. 

I'm one of the few here who will also miss Glavant. I thought it was a really fun show!


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BrettStah said:


> #GrinderRests


Maybe I already said this in one of the other threads about the show, but I was thinking recently that it would have been cool to do at least one episode as a 'full' Grinder episode (or maybe somehow a "highlights" episode since The Grinder would obviously be an hour long drama).

Unfortunately this wording wouldn't work, but even doing a phony preemption notice something like this would've been cool:

Tonight's episode of The Grinder (sitcom) has been preempted. Please watch this encore episode of "The Grinder" (drama) instead.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Sucks that 4 of the shows I watched and liked were cancelled.  Galavant was my favorite, though I knew there'd be no way it was surprise renewed again. I'll miss the muppets and Nashville.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

AnnaBanana said:


> The Grinder (not happy about this at all)


But what if it wasn't?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The Muppets! Noooooooooooooooooooo


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Not surprised about Cyber. They pretty much wrapped it all up anyway, and Ted Danson was headed to a new show, I heard.

Sad to see The Muppets go, but I imagine it was a grind doing weekly shows.

I thought Nashville was doing well, but I guess not.

I wanted to stick with Carter, but about midway through the first season, I lost interest.


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

while watching the grinder last tuesday it felt like the dialogue was written with the possibility of being cancelled in mind 

it was kind of funny and clever actually


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Agent Carter? Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.

At least Supergirl is moving to the CW where it can get low ratings for a decade.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> BIH, Fox
> 
> FIFY.


Oh man, BIH Fox goes waaaaay back. Yeah, you guys totally screwed with Firefly!



LoadStar said:


> Going to miss Nashville and Castle......


Yeah, two shows my wife and I really liked to watch!


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Castle had run its course. I lovingly refer to Nashville as my sin show, will miss it.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I never understood why The Grinder's ratings were so horrible. Fox really had no choice.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Family said:


> I never understood why The Grinder's ratings were so horrible. Fox really had no choice.


Me and my boss are the only 2 people I know that watched it. I loved it, probably my favorite comedy since AD, even above Community. Nobody knew it existed and I kept trying to get them to watch. I'm really upset about the ratings and I cannot figure out why they were so low. Was the promo for this show that bad because I can't believe people that gave it a chance thought it was bad.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> Nashville





Cainebj said:


> bummer :down:


Double bummer.:down::down:

I really love this show. PLUS I doubt we get any real closure on the storylines.

Big bag of suck


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

nyny523 said:


> PLUS I doubt we get any real closure on the storylines.


Yes I was thinking the same thing - I heard the last episode in May 25th - so, 2 more? It really is a shame when cancellations happen like this that more shows don't get the opportunity to do a closure episode or finale 2-hour movie.
At the least I hope Cash and her Dad get what's coming to them


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> Agent Carter? Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.


Hayley has signed to do a different ABC show this fall, so she'll still be on your TV, at least. (Although I think she'll be playing American... rats.)


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

AnnaBanana said:


> The Grinder (not happy about this at all)
> 
> Grandfathered





Hoffer said:


> Screw you Fox!!! I really enjoyed that show.





TonyD79 said:


> BIH, Fox
> 
> FIFY.


So far, only show I care that has been cancelled. Loved The Grinder. I watch Muppets, but won't really miss it. Not sure if I'll continue to watch Supergirl, even though it was saved on CW.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

SoBelle0 said:


> Will miss Castle, so much! I'll also miss Agent Carter - and will never understand why it didn't get better ratings.
> 
> I'm one of the few here who will also miss Glavant. I thought it was a really fun show!


Oh forgot about Galavant. Fun show, but I guess I never expected it to be renewed.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mattack said:


> Maybe I already said this in one of the other threads about the show, but I was thinking recently that it would have been cool to do at least one episode as a 'full' Grinder episode (or maybe somehow a "highlights" episode since The Grinder would obviously be an hour long drama).
> 
> Unfortunately this wording wouldn't work, but even doing a phony preemption notice something like this would've been cool:
> 
> Tonight's episode of The Grinder (sitcom) has been preempted. Please watch this encore episode of "The Grinder" (drama) instead.


I said to my wife after watching the final episode that it felt like it could work as a season or series finale. So there's that.

Could this be one of those shows that could be saved with a movement, like AD was? What could we send the Fox execs to save the show?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm very bummed about The Grinder. That show was really fun and very inventive. I'll definitely miss it. 

I'm also bummed about Agent Carter and Galavant, although not surprised at all. They were kind of pet favorites of ABC president Paul Lee, and when he got fired, they were doomed. 

I enjoyed Cooper Barrett, but that's not a big loss. Same with Muppets and Grandfathered.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I still watch quite a few ABC shows after losing Castle and Agent Carter... Grey's, Quantico, Scandal, SHIELD, How To Get Away With Murder, Modern Family, and Secrets and Lies (yes it's coming back for a season 2 ).

BIH FOX goes way further back than Firefly for me, although that's the one that stings the most. RIP Millenium (1999) and The Lone Gunmen (2001).


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

laria said:


> I still watch quite a few ABC shows after losing Castle and Agent Carter... Grey's, Quantico, Scandal, SHIELD, How To Get Away With Murder, Modern Family, and Secrets and Lies (yes it's coming back for a season 2 ).
> 
> BIH FOX goes way further back than Firefly for me, although that's the one that stings the most. RIP Millenium (1999) and The Lone Gunmen (2001).


I watch ABC's Wednesday Comedy block, and Fresh Off the Boat, but other than that, nothing else. Their dramas don't appeal to me at all.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Here's a rundown of the shows that got axed and the news ones that will replace them:

http://fiostrending.verizon.com/new...pergirl_moving_from_cbs_to_cw_for_season_2-ap


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> Yes I was thinking the same thing - I heard the last episode in May 25th - so, 2 more? It really is a shame when cancellations happen like this that more shows don't get the opportunity to do a closure episode or finale 2-hour movie.
> At the least I hope Cash and her Dad get what's coming to them


If they had paid attention to the ratings, they should've at least assumed it was a possibility and planned appropriately.


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

I used to watch Nashville but stopped after a couple of seasons. The others I've never watched. Maybe I don't watch too much tv.  I have all episodes of Agent Carter on my TiVo, just haven't gotten around to watching them.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Supergirl moving to CW is an effective cancellation for me since I make it a point to avoid CW dramas. That's OK because I planned to drop it anyway and now won't be tempted to glance at it as if it were on CBS.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> Here's a rundown of the shows that got axed and the news ones that will replace them:
> 
> http://fiostrending.verizon.com/new...pergirl_moving_from_cbs_to_cw_for_season_2-ap


Sheesh, looked at the list of upcoming shows and only one even mildly interests me from the description, and that's Time After Time...and only because I really liked the movie. They sure waited a long time to make a series based on that movie. The rest of the shows sound HORRIBLE.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I guess I won't miss Agent Carter. I remember liking the first season. I have like 2 episodes left in season 2. I've been struggling watching the show. Just not into it this second season.

I also watch The Muppets, but won't really miss it. I think I watched it due to nostalgia. I remember loving the Muppet Show as a kid.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Castle has been awful most of the current season. I won't miss it. It's already been replaced in our lineup by The Catch.

Definitely will miss Agent Carter, but given how she only had two short seasons it's not like it was on our watching schedule for long. She's been cast on another show, hasn't she?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Add me to the chorus of people mad about the cancellation of The Grinder. 

I was also just getting into The Family on ABC, which was also canceled yesterday. I'm not sure I'll keep watching it now that I know it's done after the season. I watched the first 3 and liked them. 

Haven't told my kids about the Muppets yet. I don't think they'll be that upset. They'd have been more upset if Supergirl got canceled.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Bummed about Nashville but it had kind of run its course..

BIH Fox-I LOVED The Grinder! 
Maybe it will get picked up by Hulu or Netflix!


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Regina said:


> Bummed about Nashville but it had kind of run its course..
> 
> BIH Fox-I LOVED The Grinder!
> Maybe it will get picked up by Hulu or Netflix!


You never know. There are a lot more providers now that need content.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

laria said:


> BIH FOX goes way further back than Firefly for me, although that's the one that stings the most. RIP Millenium (1999) and The Lone Gunmen (2001).


My first BIH Fox goes back to Alien Nation (1990). Then continues with most of the other ones already mentioned.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

The Grinder is a surprise, given how many people seem to love it and want more of it. I think had Fox given it another season it could have developed a strong following. But what am I saying? Fox never gives shows a chance these days!


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Frylock said:


> But what am I saying? Fox never gives shows a chance these days!


But what if they did?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> But what if they did?


:up:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Frylock said:


> The Grinder is a surprise, given how many people seem to love it and want more of it. I think had Fox given it another season it could have developed a strong following. But what am I saying? Fox never gives shows a chance these days!


It was getting horrible ratings. I think it was averaging about a 0.6 or 0.7 in the 18-49 demo. I'll bet if it had been renewed, it would have been the lowest-rated show ever renewed by on of the big 4 broadcast networks.

Without other strong comedies to put around it, there's no reason to believe it would have fared any better in a second season. Even New Girl was only getting about a 1.0 so FOX really didn't have any way to provide a better time slot or more of a lead in.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Gonna miss Nashville. As mentioned, un-resolved story lines. Was hoping to see Juliette redeem herself

Bummed about The Muppets too. No story lines here to resolve, but the show was just fun for me.

Happy Supergirl doesn't go away.. But I just wonder how it will be on CW.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Sorry to see Nashville go. Castle, though I'm up to date on it, I think it was time to go, especially without Katic. The others I never watched or didn't really care about anyway.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Frylock said:


> But what am I saying? Fox never gives shows a chance these days!


Actually that hasn't been true for many years, Fox has been very good about giving bubble shows more leeway, the best example is Fringe, they stuck with it for a long time when others (or previous Fox management) would have killed it.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

AnnaBanana said:


> The Grinder (not happy about this at all)


WTF?



Steveknj said:


> So far, only show I care that has been cancelled. Loved The Grinder.


Ditto. Probably my favorite comedy on TV right now, and one of the few shows I watch the same night it airs.

All the others mentioned I stopped watching long ago.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

Gonna miss Castle, although with the horrid writing over the last couple season, it was time to go. Had they stayed the course instead of pitting them against each other, there may have been hope.

On a side note, with CSI Cyber being cancelled, this now puts an end to the "CSI" era. No more CSI shows of any kind left(finally).


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Sad to see the Grinder go.

I didn't even realize it was on Fox but they can BIH anyway.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> Actually that hasn't been true for many years, Fox has been very good about giving bubble shows more leeway, the best example is Fringe, they stuck with it for a long time when others (or previous Fox management) would have killed it.


I've gotten so tired of saying it that I don't even bother anymore, but absolutely.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I've gotten so tired of saying it that I don't even bother anymore, but absolutely.


Don't let "facts" get in the way of some good ol' hatin' on Fox


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

Regina said:


> Bummed about Nashville but it had kind of run its course..


I agree with this but would at least like to see it properly end so that the stories could be resolved.



Steveknj said:


> Sheesh, looked at the list of upcoming shows and only one even mildly interests me from the description, and that's Time After Time...and only because I really liked the movie. They sure waited a long time to make a series based on that movie. The rest of the shows sound HORRIBLE.


I kind of agree with this as well. And while I really like the movie Frequency, I don't see it as a series. The one with the dog's perspective could have potential.....to be funny or really dumb  Even if it starts funny I could see the concept getting old quickly.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Aw crap! Not The Grinder.  I didn't see that coming at all.

PS: Loving the riffs, though! 

You suck, Fox!


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## type_g (Sep 9, 2002)

No, No, Please, Grinder No rest, No rest Grinder NOOOOOOOOOOOO. BIH BIH BIH FOX!!!!!


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## type_g (Sep 9, 2002)

Also here is a link to a summery by network of was renewed and what was canceled so far, in case someone needs it all in one site/page like i do haha

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...lations-every-shows-status-one-spot/84320248/


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I never even heard of the Grinder. Now I feel bad for all you people who liked it.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

To hear local leaders tell it the cancellation of Nashville will turn the city into a ghost town.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I'll miss Nashville, Agent Carter, and most of all, Telenovela (which I just read was cancelled.)


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Second Chance won't be getting a 2nd season.

Not the best show, but being on Fox I thought maybe....


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I'll miss Nashville, Agent Carter, and most of all, Telenovela (which I just read was cancelled.)


After seeing the cancellations last night, I went through my DVR and deleted season passes. I deleted Telenovela, because I had only heard it would probably get cancelled, and now I see it was. I did not love that show, but I liked it.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Second Chance won't be getting a 2nd season.
> 
> Not the best show, but being on Fox I thought maybe....


They changed the name so many times before it aired, I didn't even remember I watched season 1 until I just googled it.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

kettledrum said:


> Sad to see the Grinder go.
> 
> I didn't even realize it was on Fox but they can BIH anyway.





cheesesteak said:


> I never even heard of the Grinder. Now I feel bad for all you people who liked it.


And I think this is the crux of the problem. One person watches it and has no idea it's on Fox and the other just never heard of it. Imagine if you were a network exec and heard this?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Only one show on NBCs list of cancelled that I watch and that was Crowded, but it's another show that I won't miss and a couple of years from now won't even remember it.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> And I think this is the crux of the problem. *One person watches it and has no idea it's on Fox* and the other just never heard of it. Imagine if you were a network exec and heard this?


Eh, I think that's more common these days among TiVo people... I would be hard pressed to tell you what network some of my shows were on without double checking.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Yeah, that's probably pretty true. I didn't realize until I just thought about it that none of the programs that I currently watch are on FOX.


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## EWiser (Oct 2, 2008)

Now with everyone's season passes clearing out. The networks better bring it this coming fall. Or they will be losing viewers to streaming and never get them back. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

The cast is probably too expensive, but The Grinder could be a good pickup for Netflix or Amazon.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

laria said:


> Eh, I think that's more common these days among TiVo people... I would be hard pressed to tell you what network some of my shows were on without double checking.


Not only do I rarely know what network most of my shows air on, I don't know what night either.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I see Undateable was cancelled. Not surprising. I did like that show though.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Maybe Carrie Preston from "Crowded" can join the CBS Streaming redo of "The Good Wife" 
If that does comes about. Would love Lisbeth back on that.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

EWiser said:


> Now with everyone's season passes clearing out. The networks better bring it this coming fall. Or they will be losing viewers to streaming and never get them back.


They've been losing viewers for years and there's no reason to think that trend will stop anytime soon.



Hoffer said:


> I see Undateable was cancelled. Not surprising. I did like that show though.


I'm bummed about that one. That was a really fun show, especially since they went to the live format this past season.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I'm sad to see The Grinder go, but I think we were lucky to get a full season of it given how terrible the ratings have been since day one.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm sad about Agent Carter, but not horribly so. It was as tightly tied to the rest of the Marvel Universe, so you only lose backstory (in terms of plot). I wish the Bobbi/Hunter spin off had been picked up, but oh well.

I was initially sad about Castle, but I also hadn't heard the lead actress was leaving. Knowing that I'm fine with them ending Castle. It wouldn't be the same without both of them.

Glad to see Supergirl moved to CW rather than being canceled. Maybe it can be the CW's JAG. Successful and then spins of another successful series that spins of some other OK series.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Hoffer said:


> I see Undateable was cancelled. Not surprising. I did like that show though.


Well, you can't spoil a major movie plot and expect to live.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Grinder was awesome. By far my favorite new sitcom this year. Glad to see black'ish get another season. Castle has been much, much better the last month or so, when they give up on the ridiculous loksat arc, which makes me a little sad it's going but it's pretty much time.


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## thewebgal (Aug 10, 2007)

jsmeeker said:


> Happy Supergirl doesn't go away.. But I just wonder how it will be on CW.


But now they have the possibility of doing larger crossovers between Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl ... Now if they could just bring back Constantine!

And I haven't heard any Cancellation notice about Limitless - they did some really fun and wacky stuff last season ...

Apparently Expanse isn't. I read that a 13-episode second season is to air in early 2017. A 2 year delay between seasons is absurd! I just deleted my OnePass of Season 1 - I'd been meaning to watch it but haven't had time ... why bother with a 2 year delay in the story-telling?

Who do they think they are, Doctor Who??


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

It looks like the last episode of season one of The Expanse aired on February 2nd of 2016. Early 2017 would seem to be much closer to one year between season 1 and 2.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

BrettStah said:


> It looks like the last episode of season one of The Expanse aired on February 2nd of 2016. Early 2017 would seem to be much closer to one year between season 1 and 2.


Season 1 started in 2015 December, and season 2 is scheduled for 2017 January. So 13 months between season beginnings.


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## 702 (Feb 9, 2003)

Every time Fox cancels a show I like I think of this


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> Only one show on NBCs list of cancelled that I watch and that was Crowded, but it's another show that I won't miss and a couple of years from now won't even remember it.


This one, too.  It's not like the best show ever, but I really like Patrick Warburton and found the show to be entertaining. I'll miss it.

Lately it seems like a lot of us just aren't in their demographic and everybody just wants to do reality stuff. Don't get me wrong, I do watch _some_ reality but every freaking show on tv doesn't need to be reality. Some of it is pretty dreadful.

Some of the sitcoms and dramas that they dump are pretty good but you can't just dump everything after 6 or 10 episodes. Well, or I guess you can. :down:


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

thewebgal said:


> Apparently Expanse isn't. I read that a 13-episode second season is to air in early 2017. A 2 year delay between seasons is absurd! I just deleted my OnePass of Season 1 - I'd been meaning to watch it but haven't had time ... why bother with a 2 year delay in the story-telling?


 Er... this is 2016, right? Which means early 2017 is next January, which is one year between seasons...?  

Expanse is actually quite good. Highly recommend. I don't get SyFy anymore so I had to pay for it on Amazon; one of the few shows I've done that with.

Only downside is that the first season ended about 75% of the way through the first book, which isn't bad necessarily but just ... different. At least if you've read the books.


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## AnnaBanana (Oct 23, 2006)

NBC has canceled Mysteries Of Laura


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## 59er (Mar 27, 2008)

My BIH Fox moment was for WONDERFALLS.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

59er said:


> My BIH Fox moment was for WONDERFALLS.


There have been a lot of moments for me... and yes that was one of them, too.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I've gotten to where I try not to get too attached to any network shows because they usually get canceled when I do. I tend to like shows that aren't mainstream. Unfortunately, they are the ones that usually end up on the chopping block in favor of mindless crap like "reality" shows. They're about half a peg up from professional wrestling as far as being realistic. While I'm not happy about some of the shows being canceled, at least now I don't have to waste my time watching the remaining episodes of shows that were. I've already deleted any recorded episodes of Castle as well as the season pass.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I've stuck with Castle this long, so I'm going to go ahead and hang on for the finale.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Howie said:


> I've stuck with Castle this long, so I'm going to go ahead and hang on for the finale.


Same here. My wife and I are also going to miss Agent Carter and my son and I are going to miss Galavant and the Muppets.

Scott


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> I've gotten to where I try not to get too attached to any network shows because they usually get canceled when I do. I tend to like shows that aren't mainstream. Unfortunately, they are the ones that usually end up on the chopping block in favor of mindless crap like "reality" shows. They're about half a peg up from professional wrestling as far as being realistic. While I'm not happy about some of the shows being canceled, at least now I don't have to waste my time watching the remaining episodes of shows that were. I've already deleted any recorded episodes of Castle as well as the season pass.


Castle has been on for 8 seasons - it's not like they chopped it down in it's prime.

8 seasons is a very good run, IMHO. It was probably time.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Family said:


> The cast is probably too expensive, but The Grinder could be a good pickup for Netflix or Amazon.


Please please please.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

nyny523 said:


> Castle has been on for 8 seasons - it's not like they chopped it down in it's prime.
> 
> 8 seasons is a very good run, IMHO. It was probably time.


I liked Castle and it was one of the few shows I could get my wife to watch. This past season was less than satisfactory, probably due to the squabbles between the co-stars that had the writers scrambling to keep them off-screen from each other as much as possible. I agree that it had a very good run. Many shows don't last near as long and still maintain the same quality. They kinda jumped the shark during this past season so maybe it was time to go.

Maybe they'll develop a spinoff with just Castle and his daughter. Perhaps we can finally get the Firefly reunion we've been hoping for, but it's unlikely we'll get Gina Torres or Morena Baccarin back in the cast. I don't think any of the other cast members are tied up at the moment with any major commitments, but I can't say for sure.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> This past season was less than satisfactory, probably due to the squabbles between the co-stars that had the writers scrambling to keep them off-screen from each other as much as possible.


I thought I had read that the early season stuff was not about the squabbling, but because she was filming a movie.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

mr.unnatural said:


> Maybe they'll develop a spinoff with just Castle and his daughter. Perhaps we can finally get the Firefly reunion we've been hoping for, but it's unlikely we'll get Gina Torres or Morena Baccarin back in the cast. I don't think any of the other cast members are tied up at the moment with any major commitments, but I can't say for sure.


I'll bet he shows up on the new Seth McFarlane scifi project in some capacity, even if it's just one episode.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

series5orpremier said:


> I'll bet he shows up on the new Seth McFarlane scifi project in some capacity, even if it's just one episode.


I'm sure we haven't heard the last of Nathan Fillion or Stana Katic.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Family said:


> The cast is probably too expensive, but The Grinder could be a good pickup for Netflix or Amazon.


Is it more expensive than the cast of Community? I just wonder if there's enough of even a core viewership to warrant that. Community was never that highly rated but was a hit compared to The Grinder.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> I've gotten to where I try not to get too attached to any network shows because they usually get canceled when I do. I tend to like shows that aren't mainstream. Unfortunately, they are the ones that usually end up on the chopping block in favor of mindless crap like "reality" shows. They're about half a peg up from professional wrestling as far as being realistic. While I'm not happy about some of the shows being canceled, at least now I don't have to waste my time watching the remaining episodes of shows that were. I've already deleted any recorded episodes of Castle as well as the season pass.


My feeling is, if I've watched a show and I liked it, and I have saved up episodes, why not finish them? Even if the show has been cancelled, I still like it, why let it spoil my enjoyment? Now if the show is borderline for me, I might delete them.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> My feeling is, if I've watched a show and I liked it, and I have saved up episodes, why not finish them?


Cause many shows have a cliffhanger for the finale (aka John Doe) and I hate that. If they wrapped everything up, fine, but to finish watching after it's been cancelled, in most cases is like reading half of a book.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Is it more expensive than the cast of Community? I just wonder if there's enough of even a core viewership to warrant that. Community was never that highly rated but was a hit compared to The Grinder.


I'm guessing Community was more expensive at that point in its run than The Grinder after only one season. Also, Community was a much bigger hit than The Grinder and Yahoo famously lost lots of money on that deal. Maybe it could work with a more established streaming service, but I still think it's a very long shot.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> Cause many shows have a cliffhanger for the finale (aka John Doe) and I hate that. If they wrapped everything up, fine, but to finish watching after it's been cancelled, in most cases is like reading half of a book.


So in the case of Castle, you'd watch the show for 8 years and not see it through? Seems crazy to me.

If I know a show is being cancelled, and I enjoy it, even if there's a cliffhanger, it wouldn't bother me, because...ummm...I know it's being cancelled. But that's just me. It would bother me worse if there was a cliffhanger and then the show just disappeared.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

spartanstew said:


> Cause many shows have a cliffhanger for the finale (aka John Doe) and I hate that. If they wrapped everything up, fine, but to finish watching after it's been cancelled, in most cases is like reading half of a book.


Why not just wait until after the series finale airs tonight? We'll let you know if they wrap things up, and then you can watch the backlogged episodes.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

AnnaBanana said:


> NBC has canceled Mysteries Of Laura


No! Oh crap. I thought it would have at least one more season. I know it's not that popular here, but I really enjoyed it.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> So in the case of Castle, you'd watch the show for 8 years and not see it through? Seems crazy to me.
> 
> If I know a show is being cancelled, and I enjoy it, even if there's a cliffhanger, it wouldn't bother me, because...ummm...I know it's being cancelled. But that's just me. It would bother me worse if there was a cliffhanger and then the show just disappeared.


I think it's the cliffhanger part. As an example, we watched Unforgettable through every cancellation, but we deleted the last three episodes because, as I understand it, the show ended in a cliffhanger. So we stopped watching before they could start the cliff hanger story arc.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Fortunately, the creators of Castle filmed two endings, one a series conclusion in the event of a cancellation, and the other a cliffhanger in the event of a renewal. (That's partially why I was actually hoping for a cancellation; I wanted the show to conclude.)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

aindik said:


> I was also just getting into The Family on ABC, which was also canceled yesterday.


Is there a spoiler thread somewhere? I watched a couple of episodes, and the basic premise was interesting, but it seemed to go way too slowly..


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

sharkster said:


> No! Oh crap. I thought it would have at least one more season. I know it's not that popular here, but I really enjoyed it.


yeah, as I said on another article.. I'm not the demo for this show, but thought it was an entertaining "light" cop show. (I never regularly watched her previous show(s) BTW, so it's not her specifically that got me into the show.. Though I did like the actor playing the ex-husband's old show "The Firm" even better than this one.)


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Looks like CBS will be limiting Limitless to one season. Though rumors are saying they are shopping it around to other networks.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I can't believe Sleepy Hollow got renewed. Not sure if I'll stick with it or not.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Craigbob said:


> Looks like CBS will be limiting Limitless to one season. Though rumors are saying they are shopping it around to other networks.


Admit it. You posted this just to say "limiting Limitless."


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> Looks like CBS will be limiting Limitless to one season. Though rumors are saying they are shopping it around to other networks.


I don't get CBS. They put quite a bit into this series and the ratings weren't that bad. Ya think they would give them another season at least.

I think with the CSI franchise dead and NCIS losing a major cast member, they are in a bit of a panic and looking for instant hits. Unfortunately, they have a history of getting rid of some good shows because they weren't instant hits.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

pkscout said:


> I think it's the cliffhanger part. As an example, we watched Unforgettable through every cancellation, but we deleted the last three episodes because, as I understand it, the show ended in a cliffhanger. So we stopped watching before they could start the cliff hanger story arc.


This is what really annoys me. I fully understand that networks need to cancel shows that aren't pulling in revenue, no matter how much some of us enjoy them. But if the season is going to end in a cliffhanger (The Family, John Doe, MANY others), at least contract for one more "wrap up" episode to air at the start of the next season (or over the summer or whenever). There are just too many of these episodic dramas that pull us in and leave us hanging when they are cancelled. The networks could show their loyal viewers a LITTLE respect.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

What my wife and I have started doing is to save up most or even all episodes of new shows that are interesting to us. We wait to see if they do well in the ratings, if they appear to be well liked by viewers and critics, etc. Then we don't get invested into a show that winds up getting canceled mid-season, or being canceled without a proper conclusion. 

This is only for new shows - we will stick with shows we like to the end usually, even if it loses focus or takes some turns we aren't crazy about.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> My feeling is, if I've watched a show and I liked it, and I have saved up episodes, why not finish them? Even if the show has been cancelled, I still like it, why let it spoil my enjoyment? Now if the show is borderline for me, I might delete them.


The last season of Castle was clearly the least enjoyable of the series and the plot was all over the map. If my recording schedule hadn't become so bloated and I had more free time I'd probably have stuck it out to the end, but right now I don't need much of an excuse to drop a show from my lineup. I think I tend to watch most shows out of force of habit. There are actually just a handful of shows that I can honestly say that I look forward to watching and some of them aren't coming back. Based on the new shows that have been announced for the fall and the current shows that have been canceled, I won't be as entrenched in as many shows come the new season.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> What my wife and I have started doing is to save up most or even all episodes of new shows that are interesting to us. We wait to see if they do well in the ratings, if they appear to be well liked by viewers and critics, etc. Then we don't get invested into a show that winds up getting canceled mid-season, or being canceled without a proper conclusion.
> 
> This is only for new shows - we will stick with shows we like to the end usually, even if it loses focus or takes some turns we aren't crazy about.


I've said this before, but isn't that a self fulfilling prophecy? If everyone did like you did, the show would get no ratings and be cancelled. So, even though you might have found that this is a show you like, you have now forced this to be cancelled, but not watching it to begin with.

I suspect a lot of this is what is happening now, causing shows that seem to get some buzz into getting cancelled for low ratings. Do the networks even take into account shows that have been watched for months, but are eventually binged? I don't see how they can and be able to judge the popularity of a show.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> The last season of Castle was clearly the least enjoyable of the series and the plot was all over the map. If my recording schedule hadn't become so bloated and I had more free time I'd probably have stuck it out to the end, but right now I don't need much of an excuse to drop a show from my lineup. I think I tend to watch most shows out of force of habit. There are actually just a handful of shows that I can honestly say that I look forward to watching and some of them aren't coming back. Based on the new shows that have been announced for the fall and the current shows that have been canceled, I won't be as entrenched in as many shows come the new season.


This I get, and I'm the same way. If you no longer enjoy the show, might as well cut it loose.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

loubob57 said:


> I can't believe Sleepy Hollow got renewed. Not sure if I'll stick with it or not.


I quit watching half way through this last season. I just wasn't into the show anymore. I'm surprised it got renewed as well, but then I have no idea what kind of ratings it gets.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I cut Sleepy Hollow loose last spring after the entire second season built up on my TiVo and I also knew that I'd lost an episode mid-season to preemption (I forget for what, something local I think). 

I enjoyed the first season, but for whatever reason, I was never compelled to start watching it again by the time fall rolled around, and knowing there was an episode in the middle that I would need to try and acquire (it wasn't available in XOD) just made me say "mehhhh, dump it."


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I've said this before, but isn't that a self fulfilling prophecy? If everyone did like you did, the show would get no ratings and be cancelled. So, even though you might have found that this is a show you like, you have now forced this to be cancelled, but not watching it to begin with.
> 
> I suspect a lot of this is what is happening now, causing shows that seem to get some buzz into getting cancelled for low ratings. Do the networks even take into account shows that have been watched for months, but are eventually binged? I don't see how they can and be able to judge the popularity of a show.


Well, I've said this before too - we aren't a ratings household with Nielsen or any other company. We've opted out of the anonymized data gathering on our DVRs too. So as far as I'm aware, we don't count towards the ratings system at all. Only the folks who are part of the ratings system affect the ratings, as far as I can tell.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

I don't think Supergirl's move to CW is as earthshaking as its other move - to Vancouver. At least one cast member is leaving the show because of it.

And while I watched every episode of The Grinder, could somebody explain how that final episode makes it such a problem that they've cancelled the show?


Spoiler



If I remember correctly, it's:
(a) Fred Savage character gets suspended from practice for six months;
(b) William Devane character admits his malpractice on the stand;
(c) Savage character is rewinding a microcassette tape (does anybody even use those any more?) pretty much only because his wife can't remember what she said on it, and he just happens to listen to someone introduce himself;
(d) "Aha! That's a different person!" without anyone bothering to ask why someone would masquerade as his own brother in the first place (and I should have seen something like that coming when they had one of the Lucas Brothers cast as the plaintiff)
(e) Rob Lowe character makes some closing speech that sounds like it's being made to the show's fans saying that The Grinder isn't going anywhere - er, uh,...


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

That Don Guy said:


> And while I watched every episode of The Grinder, could somebody explain how that final episode makes it such a problem that they've cancelled the show?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Maybe I didn't quite understand what you're getting at, but the ones saying it's too bad that The Grinder got canceled weren't saying so because it ended on a cliffhanger that now won't be resolved. We're saying it's too bad the show isn't coming back because we enjoyed it. (Acknowledge there are varying levels of bummedness about it getting canceled.)


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## NickTheGreat (Aug 31, 2015)

We have half of Castle S7 and all of S8 to go. We're going to see it through, but it's nice to know there'll be some finality


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## brettatk (Oct 11, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> I don't think Supergirl's move to CW is as earthshaking as its other move - to Vancouver. At least one cast member is leaving the show because of it.


Which cast member is leaving because of the move? I haven't been able to find anything saying one was definitely leaving. I think MB and CF are the only two they have to have and they've already confirmed to be coming back. Although I'd also like to see Jon and the sister come back as well. Anyone else imo can be replaced.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Craigbob said:


> Looks like CBS will be limiting Limitless to one season. Though rumors are saying they are shopping it around to other networks.


This makes me very sad.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I suspect a lot of this is what is happening now, causing shows that seem to get some buzz into getting cancelled for low ratings. Do the networks even take into account shows that have been watched for months, but are eventually binged? I don't see how they can and be able to judge the popularity of a show.


Network programming is paid by advertising. Thursday nights are important, commercials promote movies opening and weekend sales. Viewers who store months of episodes, binge watch and skip commercials have no value to advertisers. Their value is minimal, even if they watch stale commercials.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

lew said:


> Network programming is paid by advertising. Thursday nights are important, commercials promote movies opening and weekend sales. Viewers who store months of episodes, binge watch and skip commercials have no value to advertisers. Their value is minimal, even if they watch stale commercials.


A binge watcher of a first season might be converted to a regular weekly watcher of a second season.

But that regular weekly watcher will probably still skip commercials.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

lew said:


> Network programming is paid by advertising. Thursday nights are important, commercials promote movies opening and weekend sales. Viewers who store months of episodes, binge watch and skip commercials have no value to advertisers. Their value is minimal, even if they watch stale commercials.


And that's my point. Binging is the second worst thing you can do for a network show if it turns out you like it. I get that for non-Neilson families it doesn't matter (I don't know, maybe it does? Are they monitoring our boxes yet?). But to me, if you don't watch within the +3 or whatever it is they use for ratings, then you are hurting yourself if it turns out it's a show you like.



aindik said:


> A binge watcher of a first season might be converted to a regular weekly watcher of a second season.
> 
> But that regular weekly watcher will probably still skip commercials.


This is true, but not always, and even if so, they might binge the second season as well. I thought though that I read that most people with DVRs don't skip commercials? Is this still true? Obviously people here, who are probably more in-tuned to what DVRs can and cannot do, skip commercials, but we are only a very small percentage of people who have one.

Obviously, if this type of viewing habits become more common, and we know they are, then the Neilson system of ratings is flawed, and with it, advertising on TV as we know it.

You have to wonder, in ten years, if Network TV as it's presented to us, may be dead. Could NBC or the other networks simply present TV to us On-Demand only, where commercials cannot be skipped? No more designated nights for shows, everything On Demand? And perhaps the whole season can be available at once to binge (with commercials)?


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> And that's my point. Binging is the second worst thing you can do for a network show if it turns out you like it. I get that for non-Neilson families it doesn't matter (I don't know, maybe it does? Are they monitoring our boxes yet?). But to me, if you don't watch within the +3 or whatever it is they use for ratings, then you are hurting yourself if it turns out it's a show you like.


The reality for me at least is that I'm so far behind on things that it's not that I'm not watching it because I'm waiting to see if it survives, it's more that I don't have time to watch it, and if it happens to get killed off, well, that saved me a bunch of watching time. I'll finish out shows that I've been watching (like Castle, although we haven't even started the season yet), but if something is a one and done, even if it's something that maybe I might have liked, I probably won't get around to it and will just dump it. (Unless I thought it looked *really* interesting to me, enough to offset that it's toast.)

It's totally wrong of me, but there were actually a couple of shows that I was kinda hoping would get canceled that didn't, just simply because it means I wouldn't have had to take the time to decide whether I wanted to watch them or not .


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

Yeah, I've got so many shows on my DVR, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, HBO Now, etc... I barely flinch when shows get cancelled, because I've got so much other crap I could be watching.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I watched Sleepy Hollow the 1st season. I tried to watch season 2 but after an ep or two, just could not get into it. His partner is pretty hot but that wasn't enough to bring me back.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Of course Limitless is on the chopping block. We just started watching/catching up a month ago and love it.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> You have to wonder, in ten years, if Network TV as it's presented to us, may be dead. Could NBC or the other networks simply present TV to us On-Demand only, where commercials cannot be skipped? No more designated nights for shows, everything On Demand? And perhaps the whole season can be available at once to binge (with commercials)?


That will be the day I cut the plug permanently.


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## JTAnderson (Jun 6, 2000)

brianric said:


> That will be the day I cut the plug permanently.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

LoadStar said:


> Admit it. You posted this just to say "limiting Limitless."


I posted it as a valid entry to the topic. I admit that I worded it the way I did for the word play value.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'll bet if it had been renewed, it would have been the lowest-rated show ever renewed by on of the big 4 broadcast networks.


That actually answers one of the questions I was thinking about.. What have been other very low rated shows that were renewed? Though I don't know for sure, "'Til Death" is one I suspect (kept getting renewed on Fox despite low ratings, apparently had some kind of very good deal from Fox's end). It's also my example of "this isn't very good, but for some reason I can't stop watching".

The example of the other side -- high rated shows that were cancelled, is the original "Battlestar Galactica". AFAIK, it had great ratings, but was very expensive from ABC's perspective (even with obviously re-used special effects shots).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> You have to wonder, in ten years, if Network TV as it's presented to us, may be dead. Could NBC or the other networks simply present TV to us On-Demand only, where commercials cannot be skipped? No more designated nights for shows, everything On Demand? And perhaps the whole season can be available at once to binge (with commercials)?


I agree with the other person.. That'd be when I cut or severely sever the cord.. and I'm actually one who, even though I hate commercials, DO sometimes watch On Demand versions of shows with forced commercials.. Partially that was for HD versions of a few shows I was still recording in SD.. (finally I have changed virtually all of my scripted shows to HD recordings.. still news, gameshow, etc., kind of stuff is SD.. and I sometimes have "backup" SD recordings on the other Tivo.)

But even though I do that, I do that willingly.. Having to watch the ads in EVERYTHING? No way. I've said it a million times before, but I was an ad skipper LONG before Tivo. I had two VCRs, mostly to avoid ads (record on one, watch on another..)


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> Wow! There's not one show y'all mentioned that I watch.


Me either.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mattack said:


> I agree with the other person.. That'd be when I cut or severely sever the cord.. and I'm actually one who, even though I hate commercials, DO sometimes watch On Demand versions of shows with forced commercials.. Partially that was for HD versions of a few shows I was still recording in SD.. (finally I have changed virtually all of my scripted shows to HD recordings.. still news, gameshow, etc., kind of stuff is SD.. and I sometimes have "backup" SD recordings on the other Tivo.)
> 
> But even though I do that, I do that willingly.. Having to watch the ads in EVERYTHING? No way. I've said it a million times before, but I was an ad skipper LONG before Tivo. I had two VCRs, mostly to avoid ads (record on one, watch on another..)


I did the same thing with my VCRs  I guess cutting the cord is still much harder for sports fans like me, but with more and more sports starting to stream, it might be a viable option down the road. I guess for most of us, it depends on what cutting the cord will get us. If the ONLY way to watch these shows On Demand, would be through SOME cord, then we will probably keep it (I doubt that will happen). I do wonder how that would work as the networks like NBC, et al, are free OTA, so maybe they would be forced to provide a fee option, or still have an OTA signal available? This is still so new to the Networks that it's pretty obvious to me they have yet to figure it out. TV in the last 15 years has changed MUCH more dramatically than it has in the previous 40.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

mlsnyc said:


> Maybe I didn't quite understand what you're getting at, but the ones saying it's too bad that The Grinder got canceled weren't saying so because it ended on a cliffhanger that now won't be resolved. We're saying it's too bad the show isn't coming back because we enjoyed it. (Acknowledge there are varying levels of bummedness about it getting canceled.)


There was no cliffhanger; the latest storyline was wrapped up. I was just saying that the writing quality of that episode didn't come across as one that would have a lot of people complaining about the show being cancelled.

Besides, if somebody does pick up the show for Season 2, it will probably do some desperate ratings grabbing attempt shift, and turn into the "Just get Dean and Claire together in bed already" season.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> You have to wonder, in ten years, if Network TV as it's presented to us, may be dead. Could NBC or the other networks simply present TV to us On-Demand only, where commercials cannot be skipped? No more designated nights for shows, everything On Demand? And perhaps the whole season can be available at once to binge (with commercials)?


My difficulty with the idea of being forced into TV ads is that they usually have little relevance to me. I'm not, nor will I ever be, in the market to buy a Toyota. I don't use beauty products. I don't need that drug. Even online with stuff like YouTube, many of the ads are at least gender appropriate (I seem to see lots of video game ads) but often they are still rather irrelevant.

One of my big problems with cable is its "one size fits all" package. You either get the broadcast channels or you get everything (yes, this is an over-simplification, but it's basically a choice of $10/mo or $70+/mo.) This might have made sense back in the analog days where it was more technically challenging to filter individual channels to subscribers, but now it's this way because Disney, et al bundle crap together in their licensing deals to the cable companies. I don't want to see the online video world become something similar where Netflix costs $60/mo and is full of these expensive content libraries of crap I don't ever watch.

I really like what Amazon is doing where I can buy into the Starz or Showtime library for $9/mo. It's easy to sign up and it works great on the FireTV. If I could do that with a few broadcast channels for $5/mo each, I'd cut the cord tomorrow.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

ADG said:


> This is what really annoys me. I fully understand that networks need to cancel shows that aren't pulling in revenue, no matter how much some of us enjoy them. But if the season is going to end in a cliffhanger (The Family, John Doe, MANY others), at least contract for one more "wrap up" episode to air at the start of the next season (or over the summer or whenever). There are just too many of these episodic dramas that pull us in and leave us hanging when they are cancelled. The networks could show their loyal viewers a LITTLE respect.


I blame the show more than I blame the networks for that. They should be able to tell if they are on the bubble for renewal and write their final shows around that. There's always a way to wrap up a story and leave an opening for next year if they get renewed but to end on a total cliffhanger when they know there is a good chance they will be canceled is ridiculous.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Azlen said:


> I blame the show more than I blame the networks for that. They should be able to tell if they are on the bubble for renewal and write their final shows around that. There's always a way to wrap up a story and leave an opening for next year if they get renewed but to end on a total cliffhanger when they know there is a good chance they will be canceled is ridiculous.


I disagree with whom to blame, but when all is said and done that's not really important. Either way, the network could still commission one additional "wrap-up" episode after cancellation.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

ElJay said:


> My difficulty with the idea of being forced into TV ads is that they usually have little relevance to me. I'm not, nor will I ever be, in the market to buy a Toyota. I don't use beauty products. I don't need that drug. Even online with stuff like YouTube, many of the ads are at least gender appropriate (I seem to see lots of video game ads) but often they are still rather irrelevant.
> 
> One of my big problems with cable is its "one size fits all" package. You either get the broadcast channels or you get everything (yes, this is an over-simplification, but it's basically a choice of $10/mo or $70+/mo.) This might have made sense back in the analog days where it was more technically challenging to filter individual channels to subscribers, but now it's this way because Disney, et al bundle crap together in their licensing deals to the cable companies. I don't want to see the online video world become something similar where Netflix costs $60/mo and is full of these expensive content libraries of crap I don't ever watch.
> 
> I really like what Amazon is doing where I can buy into the Starz or Showtime library for $9/mo. It's easy to sign up and it works great on the FireTV. If I could do that with a few broadcast channels for $5/mo each, I'd cut the cord tomorrow.


Bundling makes sense, both for the networks and the consumers. We've discussed this before. If you could by networks a la carte, and you buy the 10 channels you want, it would cost you about the same as the bundle because, with fewer eyeballs watching the networks, the rates for each one would go up. So, I'd rather have a bundle of 40 channels, 10 of which I like than just the 10. There's always that chance that there will be a show or two on those networks that I didn't buy, that I might like. I do get though that sports drives up the prices and if your not a sports fan, you might not want to pay that price. I could see them eventually tiering the sports networks.

As far as ads, the networks DO try and sell ads targeted to viewers. So you're not going to see a Chanel commercial during an NFL game, and you're going to see a lot of pharmaceuticals advertised during news shows that trend to older folks. Besides, the idea is to try and sell you things that you don't already have  Maybe Toyota will advertise a car that you see in a commercial that will change your mind. You never know.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

The problem with a la carte is it shifts channels from a subscription model to an eyeball model, which means diehard fans of shows often get shafted because you have to introduce elements to get more eyeballs. Such elements include things like faked drama in shows that don't have it, gratuitous use of effects (explosions, etc) inappropriately (i.e., the answer is more "why not" than for any real related reason to the show) or, face it, eye candy.

Pawn Stars is an example - all the fake drama that was inserted, you know it's to attract eyeballs. We've only been talking about forcing unbundling for years now so the programming has adapted for the inevitable.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Worf said:


> The problem with a la carte is it shifts channels from a subscription model to an eyeball model, which means diehard fans of shows often get shafted because you have to introduce elements to get more eyeballs. Such elements include things like faked drama in shows that don't have it, gratuitous use of effects (explosions, etc) inappropriately (i.e., the answer is more "why not" than for any real related reason to the show) or, face it, eye candy.


A lot of the best shows I have ever seen have been on HBO or Showtime, so that theory does not agree with the evidence.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

ADG said:


> I disagree with whom to blame, but when all is said and done that's not really important. Either way, the network could still commission one additional "wrap-up" episode after cancellation.


CBS did that with the original CSI. A few shows were given abbreviated final seasons to wrap things up. Bones, White Collar, Person of Interest...

A network isn't always willing to pay for even one extra episode of a low rated show. One series vended with a cliff hanger, network said they told production company not to plan on a renewal but the producers rolled the dice and lost.

A few shows were able to adjust the final episode to serve as a series finale. I'm thinking of Castle and JAG. I'm sure there are others.course the door is left open. If you're a writer and having to write because the actor wishes to pursue other opportunities, you don't do a fatal sendoff because the character might come back (e.g., perhaps the other opportunities weren't as green as they thought, or it worked for a little while, then completely fizzled out, or it was a complete flop and they wanted to return to more steady work), the character might be forced back (e.g., the audie


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

lew said:


> CBS did that with the original CSI. A few shows were given abbreviated final seasons to wrap things up. Bones, White Collar, Person of Interest...


They kind of did the same thing for Jericho after they caught hell(and a lot of peanuts) for cancelling it after 1 season, especially on such a cliffhanger ending.

They renegged on the cancel and did a shortened 2nd season stating that if the ratings were high, they would bring it back for a 3rd season. Of course they took an 8pm show and quietly started the 2nd season(not much advertising about it) at 10pm, making it difficult to attain good ratings. They did the ole shoot 2 endings and then decide late on whether to bring it back(they didn't). You can see the alternate ending on the 2nd season DVD.

I'm still annoyed they aren't bringing back Limitless, especially after seeing the list of new/rehashed shows for the Fall.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> So in the case of Castle, you'd watch the show for 8 years and not see it through? Seems crazy to me.
> 
> If I know a show is being cancelled, and I enjoy it, even if there's a cliffhanger, it wouldn't bother me, because...ummm...I know it's being cancelled. But that's just me. It would bother me worse if there was a cliffhanger and then the show just disappeared.


I've never watched Castle (don't care for Fillon), but I was referring more to first season shows (hence, the John Doe reference).


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

john4200 said:


> A lot of the best shows I have ever seen have been on HBO or Showtime, so that theory does not agree with the evidence.


HBO is a subscription channel, so its not dependent on eyeballs. It, like Netflix, is dependent on PAYING eyeballs (aka subscribers) and not eyeballs in general as they don't depend on ad revenue. Thus they generally produce content that their subscribers will like. Both conduct extensive surveys on their membership and who they want in their membership, and produce programming to match.

While we're on the topic, the last business model for a TV station (besides ad-based like network and cable, subscription like HBO and Netflix) is publicly funded - either partially or fully state funded (like BBC, CBC), or a mix between public funding and private funding (PBS). Sure a lot of this can be used for propaganda, but it also can be used for programming which cannot be made by the other two models - consumer reports style shows who may anger advertisers are a perfect match for this model as they are not dependent on ad revenue and can spend time and money investigating without worrying about advertiser imposed censorship. Or in-depth specialty programming like you find with PBS where you don't care how many eyeballs you attract (hence why you find more educational type programming - you don't care if the public changes the channel).


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Worf said:


> HBO is a subscription channel, so its not dependent on eyeballs. It, like Netflix, is dependent on PAYING eyeballs (aka subscribers) and not eyeballs in general as they don't depend on ad revenue. Thus they generally produce content that their subscribers will like. Both conduct extensive surveys on their membership and who they want in their membership, and produce programming to match.


So if a la carte caused traditional cable networks to also begin relying primarily on subscriber fees rather than advertising, why wouldn't those networks start operating more like HBO and Netflix rather than the way you described (inserting unnecessary drama elements)?


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

sushikitten said:


> Of course Limitless is on the chopping block. We just started watching/catching up a month ago and love it.


Oh, so it's YOUR fault!

Thanks for nuthin'!!


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## thewebgal (Aug 10, 2007)

Second Chance -


BrettStah said:


> They changed the name so many times before it aired, I didn't even remember I watched season 1 until I just googled it.


It did have a charm to it, and I'm really happy they let them wrap the storylines as it ended. That was classy, for Fox!



Craigbob said:


> Looks like CBS will be limiting Limitless to one season. Though rumors are saying they are shopping it around to other networks.


I suppose that was not unexpected, figuring the lead character got a super-secret, never to be repeated permanent protection shot - not having to worry about side effects any more takes a lot of the tension out of the show and would make it harder to go forward ...

And a lot of the networks are trying to scam everyone with the endless "Reality" shows, or the weirdo Singing/Dancing with the Stars of for the Championship - dreck! They do that junk because its SO cheap - but I have no interested in the false drama of all their contrived junk ...

God, even the current election cycle is like a badly scripted "Reality Show" ...


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

thewebgal said:


> I suppose that was not unexpected, figuring [spoiler removed]...


I don't watch the show, but that sounds like a pretty major spoiler, even if it doesn't end up mattering because the show's gone. You might want to edit your post.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I did the same thing with my VCRs  I guess cutting the cord is still much harder for sports fans like me, but with more and more sports starting to stream, it might be a viable option down the road.


If they want to stream sports, they had better get things working better than when I was trying to watch the Preakness today via the NBCSports Live Extra app on my smartphone.

I pulled up the coverage block for the prep races and hit the button to catch the stream up to Live. Watched one segment, got the "your NBC Sports coverage will resume shortly" banner, then it went back to the start of the segment I had just watched.

I don't care what kind of sport you like. That sort of glitchy stream isn't going to cut it with anybody.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

murgatroyd said:


> If they want to stream sports, they had better get things working better than when I was trying to watch the Preakness today via the NBCSports Live Extra app on my smartphone.
> 
> I pulled up the coverage block for the prep races and hit the button to catch the stream up to Live. Watched one segment, got the "your NBC Sports coverage will resume shortly" banner, then it went back to the start of the segment I had just watched.
> 
> I don't care what kind of sport you like. That sort of glitchy stream isn't going to cut it with anybody.


I think it depends. I watch mlb.tv and they do a really good job of streaming. Is there an occasional glitch? Sure, but more often than not it's related to local ISP than to MLB.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I think it depends. I watch mlb.tv and they do a really good job of streaming. Is there an occasional glitch? Sure, but more often than not it's related to local ISP than to MLB.


MLB's streaming platform and people are, literally, among the very best in the world.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

cmontyburns said:


> MLB's streaming platform and people are, literally, among the very best in the world.


Their blackout rules on the other hand...


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## NickTheGreat (Aug 31, 2015)

Flop said:


> Their blackout rules on the other hand...


Try living in Iowa. We are blacked out from the Cubs, White Sox, Brewers, Twins, Cards and Royals.

And people ask why I'm not a baseball fan anymore


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

NickTheGreat said:


> Try living in Iowa. We are blacked out from the Cubs, White Sox, Brewers, Twins, Cards and Royals.
> 
> And people ask why I'm not a baseball fan anymore


That sucks, and it shouldn't be that way.

BUT, there is an upside. If you're a DirecTV subscriber, you can see the Cubs and White Sox as part of your regular package. No MLB.tv or Extra Innings purchase required. For an additional $12 a month for the Sports Pack, you can also see the Brewers, Twins, Royals and Cardinals.

That goes for the NHL and NBA teams in those markets, too.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aindik said:


> That sucks, and it shouldn't be that way.
> 
> BUT, there is an upside. If you're a DirecTV subscriber, you can see the Cubs and White Sox as part of your regular package. No MLB.tv or Extra Innings purchase required. For an additional $12 a month for the Sports Pack, you can also see the Brewers, Twins, Royals and Cardinals.
> 
> That goes for the NHL and NBA teams in those markets, too.


Believe it or not, there are places where you have to buy MLB package even though you are in the market. The outer rings.

But it is absurd that you cannot watch a local TV on streaming (portable) media. It makes zero sense, really.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> But it is absurd that you cannot watch a local TV on streaming (portable) media. It makes zero sense, really.


Agreed that it's ridiculous. Obviously they're trying to protect the rights fees that are paid by the local RSNs to have broadcast rights for those teams. But you'd think they could figure out a way that if you are a subscriber to a cable package that includes that RSN, you can log in to the MLB app with that info and it should remove the blackout for you.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Believe it or not, there are places where you have to buy MLB package even though you are in the market. The outer rings.


This is not correct.

If you are in the market, you *can't* buy the MLB package. Games will be blacked out on the MLB package. That's what being in the local market means.

If you are in the market, you can only watch the games via the local team's RSN. If your cable company doesn't offer that RSN, you can probably get it on DirecTV. But you cannot watch that team's games on any MLB package.



TonyD79 said:


> But it is absurd that you cannot watch a local TV on streaming (portable) media. It makes zero sense, really.


They have authenticated local streaming for 15 of the 30 teams now. If you subscribe to an RSN in your local area that's owned by Fox, you can watch MLB games on a portable device without the MLB package. New this year. Streams are available via Fox Sports Go (website on computers, app on mobile devices).


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Agreed that it's ridiculous. Obviously they're trying to protect the rights fees that are paid by the local RSNs to have broadcast rights for those teams. But you'd think they could figure out a way that if you are a subscriber to a cable package that includes that RSN, you can log in to the MLB app with that info and it should remove the blackout for you.


They have figured that out with Fox. Haven't figured it out for the other RSN owners yet. So, as of now, local in-market streaming works for 15 of the 30 teams.

But it's not via MLB's app. It's via Fox's app.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

NickTheGreat said:


> Try living in Iowa. We are blacked out from the Cubs, White Sox, Brewers, Twins, Cards and Royals.
> 
> And people ask why I'm not a baseball fan anymore


You might live in Iowa, but you can watch from elsewhere.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

cmontyburns said:


> MLB's streaming platform and people are, literally, among the very best in the world.


MLB streaming is indeed very good. All my problems have been app related, not the service. The TiVo app blows, but on mobile and Roku and Amazon Fire, it's great.

Funny thing is that MLBAM, or whatever it's called, also runs the NHL streaming service, and it was not nearly as good. I had tons of issues.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I think HBO Now uses the MLB streaming service as well.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

hefe said:


> MLB streaming is indeed very good. All my problems have been app related, not the service. The TiVo app blows, but on mobile and Roku and Amazon Fire, it's great.
> 
> Funny thing is that MLBAM, or whatever it's called, also runs the NHL streaming service, and it was not nearly as good. I had tons of issues.


I'm so torn on this. The TiVo app sucks. But that 60 fps picture quality is so, so good, and I don't have it on my AppleTV 3.

So, I watch on Tivo when I'm live, or I'm watching a game that's over. I watch on AppleTV when the game is still going on but I'm behind.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Hoffer said:


> I think HBO Now uses the MLB streaming service as well.


Whoever HBO used, it works well. And the interface matches the one used by Starz Play and Encore Play as well as Epix. They must be using the source.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

NickTheGreat said:


> Try living in Iowa. We are blacked out from the Cubs, White Sox, Brewers, Twins, Cards and Royals.
> 
> And people ask why I'm not a baseball fan anymore


Rangers, Astros, Royals, Cardinals. The crazy thing is, I have never seen a "local" broadcast on a network or Fox on my cable, or my parents' (DTV) or brother's (Dish) satellite services for Astros, Royals or Cards, so why does MLB consider me in those local markets? Hell, Houston is an 8 hour drive. Local?!?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

hefe said:


> MLB streaming is indeed very good. All my problems have been app related, not the service. The TiVo app blows, but on mobile and Roku and Amazon Fire, it's great.
> 
> Funny thing is that MLBAM, or whatever it's called, also runs the NHL streaming service, and it was not nearly as good. I had tons of issues.


I'm betting during the off season they overhaul the NHL streaming. IRC, MLBAM took this over midseason and probably didn't want to totally mess up what was there (even though they kinda did).


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Flop said:


> Rangers, Astros, Royals, Cardinals. The crazy thing is, I have never seen a "local" broadcast on a network or Fox on my cable, or my parents' (DTV) or brother's (Dish) satellite services for Astros, Royals or Cards, so why does MLB consider me in those local markets? Hell, Houston is an 8 hour drive. Local?!?


MLB has divided up the country among the 30 clubs. There is no part of the country that isn't in the territory of some team, no matter how far away the teams are.

This probably should change, but I don't know who would be motivated to change it. Maybe the league steps in and says look, Dodgers, you're not making any money having Hawaii in your territory (IOW cable companies aren't going to carry your channel on lineups in Hawaii), so give it back to the league so we can sell more MLB.tv packages to Dodgers fans in Hawaii.

You would see a local broadcast for those teams if you subscribed to the Sports Pack on DirecTV. I think Dish has a similar package. Cable companies don't.

EDIT: According to DirecTV, people in Oklahoma City would see the Astros (ROOT Sports Southwest) and Rangers (Fox Sports Southwest) as part of their regular Choice package. You could also see the Royals and Cardinals with the Sports Pack. I assume the entire state of Oklahoma would be treated the same for NHL and MLB territories (different for NBA because there's a team in Oklahoma City), but I'm not sure and I obviously don't know your ZIP code. You can look it up here:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/functionalPageIF.jsp?assetId=cms_sports_lookup

The Sports Pack is, like the other premium packages (HBO, Showtime, etc.), included in DirecTV's Premier package.


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## NickTheGreat (Aug 31, 2015)

hefe said:


> You might live in Iowa, but you can watch from elsewhere.


Or I can just drink beer and forget about MLB. I quit caring after the strike, honestly


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

And Limitless is done


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Nooooooo!!!!


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

sushikitten said:


> Nooooooo!!!!


I know. I'm very sad about this.


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## jdfs (Oct 21, 2002)

ADG said:


> I disagree with whom to blame, but when all is said and done that's not really important. Either way, the network could still commission one additional "wrap-up" episode after cancellation.


All the network decisions are financially based, so paying extra for an already canceled show makes no sense. It would be the lowest rated show of an already low rated series. Ad prices would be less than other options they have. It could be worse, they could decide to not even show the remaining episodes and throw on some repeats of their higher rated shows.


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## agentpaul (Feb 28, 2002)

If the networks are just going to keep canceling shows without giving them any chance then it is going to make it easier for me to cut the cords. I have been holding out but catching up on single season shows on Netflix are starting to sound more appealing than paying $60 to DTV each month.

Renewing Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders but Person of Interest, Limitless Agent Carter, Grinder, etc get canceled. Very frustrating.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

agentpaul said:


> If the networks are just going to keep canceling shows without giving them any chance then it is going to make it easier for me to cut the cords. I have been holding out but catching up on single season shows on Netflix are starting to sound more appealing than paying $60 to DTV each month.
> 
> Renewing Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders but Person of Interest, Limitless Agent Carter, Grinder, etc get canceled. Very frustrating.


Odd that the three shows you cite all _were _given a chance (from one full season to _five _seasons!)...


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Odd that the three shows you cite all _were _given a chance (from one full season to _five _seasons!)...


+1
Police Squad (6 episodes) is a show people didn't think was given a chance. Person of interest was given a, presumably final, shorten season to wind things up.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm surprised that people here didn't seem to like Telenovela; which I thought was great. Also surprised at all the Grinder love; it was kind of funny but became repetitive real quick.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Also surprised at all the Grinder love; it was kind of funny but became repetitive real quick.


But what if it hadn't?


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

Will The Real Oneal's be back next season?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

cannonz said:


> Will The Real Oneal's be back next season?


Yes.

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/the-real-oneals-renewed-by-abc-for-season-2-1201773238/


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## agentpaul (Feb 28, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Odd that the three shows you cite all _were _given a chance (from one full season to _five _seasons!)...


True. However, one season is just not enough but that is just me.

I threw PoI in there first because of CM:BB. Why is CM:BB renewed while PoI ended? Yes I know, it is not a CBS owned show. It's more venting in my case.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

cannonz said:


> Will The Real Oneal's be back next season?


I gave up on that after two episodes.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I had the impression that both Grinder and Grandfathered were doing well. Maybe just because everyone here watched them but no one else did!


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Zevida said:


> I had the impression that both Grinder and Grandfathered were doing well. Maybe just because everyone here watched them but no one else did!


They were very questionable shows from a rating POV. Many thought Fox would keep them, possibly as a critic's choice type of decision. But from pure ratings, they were very on-the-bubble (or worse).

I gave up on Grandfathered about midway thru the season. I quit Grinder about 3-4 episodes from the end. Neither became the show I thought they should have been. Loved the characters (and actors playing them), but the writing ended up disappointing me.

This is the first TV season ever, where not a single show I watched was cancelled. But it was also the first year where I would give up on a show towards the end of a season. In the past, if I had made it 2/3 of the way or so into a season, I would typically stick it out and see how it ended. But after years of being burned by terrible writing and lackluster endings, I came to the conclusion that if I was waiting for a season to end to stop watching, I may as well stop now. Shows I watched the majority of episodes, but then killed the SP before the end include: Second Chance, Grinder, Crowded, Limitless, Supergirl and many more.

And the few new shows I liked were all renewed. Good year for me.

Just realized there was one I liked that got canned: Angel from Hell. Cute show, but not surprised it was cancelled. Would have made a good SHO 30 minute dramedy, with less censoring and more colorful scenes.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

astrohip said:


> They were very questionable shows from a rating POV. Many thought Fox would keep them, possibly as a critic's choice type of decision. But from pure ratings, they were very on-the-bubble (or worse).


I don't think they were anywhere close to the bubble from a ratings perspective. Grandfathered had been mostly getting a 0.8 with the benefit of the New Girl lead in, and The Grinder had mostly been getting a 0.6. Those ratings are horrible.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I have personally cancelled (aka, removed my SP) for Dance Moms....er....I mean...So You Think You Can Dance.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Hulu original "Deadbeat" has been cancelled.
http://deadline.com/2016/06/deadbeat-canceled-hulu-3-seasons-1201767549/


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

robojerk said:


> Hulu original "Deadbeat" has been cancelled.
> http://deadline.com/2016/06/deadbeat-canceled-hulu-3-seasons-1201767549/


I just noticed there was a third season of this show the other day. I watched the first season when it first came out. Maybe one day I'll get around to the other seasons.


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

Hoffer said:


> I gave up on that after two episodes.


You should watch the last 2 Rules and Prom before giving up on it.


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