# Cable is it really worth it?



## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I have been using OTA exclusively since 2006 when I dumped Directv but thought I might take a look at the costs associated with cable. The only cable company available in my area is Charter and I'm just not seeing the value at $59.99 (especially when these are not even the good channels). It does not make sense to go back to premium TV when so many local channels come in clear as a bell in HD already.



> You have been connected to Ashley.
> Ashley: Thanks for giving me the opportunity to help you today! My name is Ashley and I'll be taking care of you. How can I help?
> customer: hi, where is the option for basic analog cable?
> Ashley: I would need to set you up with that.
> ...


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## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

To each their own I guess. While I will agree that Cable has lost some value, mostly because of services like Netflix, I still find it WELL worth the price. When I think about what I COULD be doing with that money and how far it would get me, it becomes very valuable very quickly. A movie these days costs $10 for about 100 minutes of entertainment. Going to a bar for one night costs $40+. I could go on and on listing entertainment choices. But, for $60 per month you could have movies, TV shows, documentaries, live sports, live news, etc.

But again, it comes down to priorities. Some people spend $3-5 per day on coffee, a price twice that of a day of cable tv, yet complain about high cable bills. And some people "cut the cord" for services like Netflix and Hulu+ (I have Netflix, personally). At some point, the cost of cable could cause me to do this, but I still see the value in cable TV. Entertainment isn't, and shouldn't, be completely free, as people do need to make money in producing it (ad rates alone no longer cut it).


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

it is for me


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

Only you can decide if it's worth it to you. For many, OTA is good enough. 
Me, I like CNBC and have the level of cable to get it. So I pay about $60/mo for only CNBC an get 100 or so chanels for free.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

For me, it's worth it. But I'm a sports fan, so I need the ESPN and Fox Sports networks, as well as Big Ten Network. My family and I also like the Discovery networks, A&E and HGTV/DIY networks. Lastly, although I don't regularly watch cable news, I like having access to CNN and Fox News during breaking news events like the Boston and West, TX events last week. 

Each person's wants/needs are different. Honestly, if I could get all the sports I wanted OTA, I would probably give serious consideration to cutting the cord. But I can't, so I won't.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Even though the vast majority of what I watch is network shows, I still think Cable is reasonable.. and I even got a Premiere 4 which requires cable.. If it had 4 tuners and did OTA too, I would have paid a bit more money for that as &#8220;backup&#8221;.

But I originally even got cable to get better reception of the network channels, since some stations needed the antenna pointed in different directions to get a good signal.

Plus, I didn&#8217;t read that whole thing, but $59.99 is often a bundle of internet + TV.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

mattack said:


> Plus, I didnt read that whole thing, but $59.99 is often a bundle of internet + TV.


If internet came with it... then I'd say that it was a good deal too... but they don't have internet in my area.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

so you're looking for an attaboy for not getting cable tv are you?


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Your cable company does not have internet.

Move.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

So my must see shows are:

Shameless
Nurse Jackie
Mad Men
Walking Dead
Dallas
Amazing Race
Boardwalk Empire
The Newsroom
Bill Maher
Bates Motel
Daily Show
Greys
San Jose Sharks

That's 2 of 12 that are broadcast

Yes I can wait a year for the DVDs and I have but that doesn't count me as a viewer and I behind on sharing the buzz.

OTA provides no value to me. Now when the day comes that I can stream the shows directly and reliably. I will walk away.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

If cable (or any pay TV service) is "worth it" or not, is subjective and personal. 

Basically everyones opinion is correct, for me at this time is it not worth it to pay for cable/satellite, however my opinion is irrelevant to anyone else.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

My feeling is paying for any kind of TV is paying to die a little earlier, as sitting on your butt is bad for your health and you should try and do it as little as possible.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Now if the questions were what would I consider when deciding if cable/satellite was "worth it" or not then I think I have some relevant answers.


How many people are in the household? The more people the more likely pay TV is a good dollar value.
If the household has pay TV now how many man hours is it watched per week? Don't count any channels/shows you can watch via OTA at your location.
Does your household have any money problems? If yes pay TV may not be a good idea even if it is a good value.
Even if you do not have money problems what are you giving up to pay for cable/satellite? 
Is the cost of Internet access tied to getting cable TV? 
Just some things to look at.


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## farmermac (Jan 31, 2012)

replaytv said:


> My feeling is paying for any kind of TV is paying to die a little earlier, as sitting on your butt is bad for your health and you should try and do it as little as possible.


Says the active member of a TiVo forum

I think the dying a little earlier applies to watching commercials.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

If it were not for the wife and kids.. I would cancel cable in a heartbeat. 95% of the TV i watch is OTA and I could use sports subscriptions (MLB/NHL/Sunday Ticket..) to supplement my sports seasons. actually more the wife.. could care less what the kids want to watch lol


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## farmermac (Jan 31, 2012)

atmuscarella said:


> [*]Is the cost of Internet access tied to getting cable TV?
> [/LIST]Just some things to look at.


Great point.

My Internet would run me $45 without cable. By bundling (and some negotiating) I'm paying $68 combined. So really, cable is about $23. No brainer, not going to go without the Internet.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

compnurd said:


> If it were not for the wife and kids.. I would cancel cable in a heartbeat. 95% of the TV i watch is OTA and I could use sports subscriptions (MLB/NHL/Sunday Ticket..) to supplement my sports seasons. actually more the wife.. could care less what the kids want to watch lol


I would like to cut the cord someday. I have recently figured out "alternative" free methods through the internet to obtain all my live sports programming (NHL, MLB, NBA, NFL, etc.) and just about ANY show (cable, OTA, or premium networks).

The quality of shows is HD and looks great, but the live sports programming quality over the internet is not quite there or in HD yet so I'll stick with cable for now. The internet methods are still good enough to watch for those occasional out-of-market games/teams I want to watch once in a while. But its probably getting to a point where this quality gap between cable and internet methods for sports programming is decreasing more and more with each passing day. Maybe someday.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

replaytv said:


> My feeling is paying for any kind of TV is paying to die a little earlier, as sitting on your butt is bad for your health and you should try and do it as little as possible.


You need a treadmill in front of one of your TV's.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Just FYI, magnus,
Your statement that most cable cos don't charge for the first CableCARD is highly questionable. I know TWC charges $2.50/mo per card and they are the second largest operator.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I believe only Comcast gives you the first cablecard for free. Most others charge for each one. Verizon charges me $3.99 apiece and they recently bumped that up to $5.99 per card. Fortunately, I'm still grandfathered in under the old rate. They used to charge only $2.99 apiece for S-cards, but I needed two of them for my S3 Tivo.

My monthly Verizon FIOS bill runs me $50.99 for the XtremeHD package plus roughly another $24 in equipment rental fees (3 cablecards + 1 HD STB) with a few piddly BS charges for who knows what. 

I don't subscribe to any premium channels or sports packages and probably 50-60% of what I watch is via OTA. In reality, I only watch a handful of cable channels, but the wife watches different ones than I do and we have a few kids channels for the grandkid when we sit for him (No. 2's on the way). I get every channel that I want in HD and many more that I don't watch.

What's funny is that a Comcast rep came to my door yesterday trying to get me to switch. I told him I had FIOS and was a happy customer and then closed the door while he was still in the middle of his spiel. I used to have Comcast for TV and internet and then switched to DirecTV. I kept the internet with Comcast, but they raped me for the privilege. I could have actually gotten basic cable and internet for less than I paid for internet only. When FIOS came to my neighborhood I jumped at the chance to dump Comcast completely.

If necessary, I could drop my FIOS TV subscription and just get my shows from the internet (and I'm not talking about sub-par streaming content with commercials ). I prefer to keep it as legal as possible so I subscribe to the TV service. Besides, if the wife didn't have access to certain channels I'd catch all the grief. That alone makes paying for cable/FIOS worthwhile.


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## farmermac (Jan 31, 2012)

dlfl said:


> Just FYI, magnus,
> Your statement that most cable cos don't charge for the first CableCARD is highly questionable. I know TWC charges $2.50/mo per card and they are the second largest operator.


Mediacom in the Midwest gives you the first cable card. More cards available for $1.99 a month


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

replaytv said:


> My feeling is paying for any kind of TV is paying to die a little earlier, as sitting on your butt is bad for your health and you should try and do it as little as possible.


sooo since i dont pay for any tv i'm doing good for my health 

i dont miss directv one bit. i'm happy for the savings. plus now i have to be choosy about what i watch, not just recording everything willy nilly


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## takeshi (Jul 22, 2010)

magnus said:


> Cable is it really worth it?


Not sure what the intent of this thread is. It's a subjective matter -- just as any question of worth is on any topic. It is for me but it helps that our association dues cover the basic package and we pay extra for the added options that we want.



magnus said:


> It does not make sense to go back to premium TV when so many local channels come in clear as a bell in HD already.


I almost never watch the locals. I do watch a lot of cable and premium networks.



mr.unnatural said:


> Besides, if the wife didn't have access to certain channels I'd catch all the grief. That alone makes paying for cable/FIOS worthwhile.


There's also that.


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## Richard Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

zalusky said:


> You need a treadmill in front of one of your TV's.


And his computer.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

zalusky said:


> You need a treadmill in front of one of your TV's.


Yeah I got one in the basement in front of one of my tvs.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Oh god, another cord cutting thread.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Bigg said:


> Oh god, another cord cutting thread.


Oh the horror of it all... just find another thread that interests you then.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

takeshi said:


> Not sure what the intent of this thread is. It's a subjective matter -- just as any question of worth is on any topic. It is for me but it helps that our association dues cover the basic package and we pay extra for the added options that we want.


My intent was to get folks thinking... is it really worth it to me? I'm getting 150 channels of stuff but do I really watch all of them?

If I had some of the options that others had with internet and TV combinations then it might be worth it for me too. However, internet costs about $45 for me and TV would be another $59 on top of that (and that's just for basic channels)... so it's not worth it to ME.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Just FYI, magnus,
> Your statement that most cable cos don't charge for the first CableCARD is highly questionable. I know TWC charges $2.50/mo per card and they are the second largest operator.


Yep, I realized that even when I said it but they always exaggerate when it comes to the true costs and the services you are given. So, I figured it would be okay for me to exaggerate too. 

Also, the original $7 charge was way out there to begin with.

I'd like to know why it's okay to charge for a cable card for Tivo when they don't charge for the first cable card box typically (when it's theirs).


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

> customer: do i need a cable card for that?
> Ashley: Yes, you would.
> Ashley: The cable card is $7 then $2 for every added TV, if you have more than one.
> customer: wait, i would have to pay for a cable card?
> ...


That's an FCC violation.

The suggestion that there isn't a cable card inside the set-top box is factually incorrect. The FCC requires all new set-top boxes to have an internal cable card. 
With a TiVo you're renting less equipment from the cable Company (i.e., a cable card rather than a box containing a cable card) so the FCC requires a TiVo user to get a reduced fee (aka Customer Owned Equipment discount).


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

If they charge $5 or $10 or $15 or whatever for a cable box/dvr and they charge $2 for a CableCard, then they ARE charging you less. It doesn't matter if their box has a CableCard in it. They are usually held in place by a security screw so you can't remove them, and no front-line CSR is going to be aware that their own boxes have CableCards in them. There's no reason they should.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Arcady said:


> If they charge $5 or $10 or $15 or whatever for a cable box/dvr and they charge $2 for a CableCard, then they ARE charging you less. It doesn't matter if their box has a CableCard in it. They are usually held in place by a security screw so you can't remove them, and no front-line CSR is going to be aware that their own boxes have CableCards in them. There's no reason they should.


But don't they typically not charge for that first box when they give you one of theirs? So, doesn't that mean they are going to charge more if they charge me anything?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

If customer reps giving incorrect info is an FCC violation, then there are thousands of violations happening every day.  Somehow the FCC doesn't catch up with all those violators. Maybe we need to increase Federal spending --- even more.  Oh wait, we just added a new consumer protection bureaucracy just last year. I'm sure they'll be right on it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

zalusky said:


> You need a treadmill in front of one of your TV's.


Yup, which is what I do. Usually 6 days a week, I walk at least an hour (usually 1 hour show without commercials + Jeopardy) while vegging watching TV. Sure, I watch more TV after that, heh.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

mattack said:


> Yup, which is what I do. Usually 6 days a week, I walk at least an hour (usually 1 hour show without commercials + Jeopardy) while vegging watching TV. Sure, I watch more TV after that, heh.


Same here... only mine is hooked up to a Roku. I was hoping for a Mini but Tivo overpriced them and made sure that they wouldn't work with my Premiere's even though it's technically possible for them to do so.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

dlfl said:


> If customer reps giving incorrect info is an FCC violation, then there are thousands of violations happening every day.


What the CSR described would be a violation if it were correct. Incorrect CSR info is free and to be expected.

The cable companies are allowed to charge a set-top box fee and then the cable card fee should be less - per the FCC there are two components to the set-top box fee, the fee for the box and the fee for the card inside the box. If the first box is bundled into the rate the customer needs to get a discount off the regular rate for leasing just the cable card instead of the the box plus the cable card.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

pdhenry said:


> That's an FCC violation.
> 
> The suggestion that there isn't a cable card inside the set-top box is factually incorrect. The FCC requires all new set-top boxes to have an internal cable card.
> With a TiVo you're renting less equipment from the cable Company (i.e., a cable card rather than a box containing a cable card) so the FCC requires a TiVo user to get a reduced fee (aka Customer Owned Equipment discount).


More likely it's just plain ignorance on the part of the CSR. These folks aren't technically inclined and only read you what's given to them on a script. If you ask them something that's outside their realm of expertise then they'll probably just guess at the answer. Chances are they have no clue what's inside the box or what the FCC regulations are that apply to it.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I should have said: "The CSR is probably mistaken; What you were told would be an FCC violation if it were true." 

Better?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

magnus said:


> Oh the horror of it all... just find another thread that interests you then.


you must be naive if you think people have the mental ability to skip past threads that dont interest them. they just dont. we have to accept that and move on


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

magnus said:


> But don't they typically not charge for that first box when they give you one of theirs? So, doesn't that mean they are going to charge more if they charge me anything?


Perhaps in areas that have converted to all digital they give you the first box free. In markets like mine where they still use analog they charge for every box. Probably because you don't need a box to get basic cable - only to get encrypted digital channels.

EDIT: By "they" in my case I'm referring to Cox.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

mattack said:


> Yup, which is what I do. Usually 6 days a week, I walk at least an hour (usually 1 hour show without commercials + Jeopardy) while vegging watching TV. Sure, I watch more TV after that, heh.


I work out over 25% of my TV watching time.

Cable is still worth it for me because of bundling and the fact that I have placeshifting devices on two of my main TV which provide live access to several of my cord-cutting family members. (One of which chipped in to pay me 25% of my yearly cable cost.)

When a service comes out to allow me to stream live more cable stations on demand, I'm there.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

pdhenry said:


> I should have said: "The CSR is probably mistaken; What you were told would be an FCC violation if it were true."
> 
> Better?


Much.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

I am OTA only. I cut for cord for cost reasons, not content reasons. I do miss my sports.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

newsposter said:


> you must be naive if you think people have the mental ability to skip past threads that dont interest them. they just dont. we have to accept that and move on


I absolutely think people should be able to talk about whatever they want in a forum, even if they are flogging the dead horse.


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

So if I drop cable, phone, and internet I will live forever?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

newsposter said:


> you must be naive if you think people have the mental ability to skip past threads that dont interest them. they just dont. we have to accept that and move on


I skip past your threads constantly, w/o the aid of ignore thread or user, or any special script. Just my mental ability to block out the deluge of inane crap.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Bigg said:


> I absolutely think people should be able to talk about whatever they want in a forum, even if they are flogging the dead horse.


*Yes*, but they deserve an good answer to their question. The value of cable to different people is too personal to have a pat answer, it like asking if a Mercedes Benz S550 sedan is worth the money (over $100K), to some it is, to most it is not. To some people OTA is not a good option, other have a slow internet so IPTV (like Hulu) is not a good option, to others food on the table is more important than having cable, others want satellite, better sports I think. I think the more choice one has, the better things are. When I was a kid there was no cable and I lived, so life does not end having no cable, but for some cable is a much better option than OTA.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

While I generally agree with above post it is interesting to notice bell curve in what people are subscribing to! The world is definitely morphing.

Anybody have the latest stats of market share of OTA versus Cable/Satellite versus IPTV versus nothing?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Langree said:


> I skip past your threads constantly, w/o the aid of ignore thread or user, or any special script. Just my mental ability to block out the deluge of inane crap.


if you could teach that ability to the lesser people on here it would be appreciated, they dont all have your superior skills

either that or they do and just cant resist me


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

pdhenry said:


> That's an FCC violation.
> 
> The suggestion that there isn't a cable card inside the set-top box is factually incorrect. The FCC requires all new set-top boxes to have an internal cable card.
> With a TiVo you're renting less equipment from the cable Company (i.e., a cable card rather than a box containing a cable card) so the FCC requires a TiVo user to get a reduced fee (aka Customer Owned Equipment discount).


Any boxes without cable cards that were in use before that cable card rule went into effect could still be used. So only boxes put into circulation after that rule need to have cable cards in them.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Any boxes without cable cards that were in use before that cable card rule went into effect could still be used. So only boxes put into circulation after that rule need to have cable cards in them.


Your factually correct but the reason for the FCC rule was to make sure MSOs would become more familiar with the use of cable cards, that is happing as the last few cable card pairing was simple, just call the special Comcast number and someone answers no button pushing, two minutes later the card was fully operational. The volume of cable cards is now much greater, the older cable boxes without cable cards don't matter much. I don't know about other MSOs and cable cards.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

Bigg said:


> I absolutely think people should be able to talk about whatever they want in a forum, even if they are flogging the dead horse.


Says the guy who's been flogging a dead horse in the patent thread for weeks...

I actually agree for the most part though - but just as people should have a right to flog dead horses, others should be free to criticize such flogging.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Loach said:


> Says the guy who's been flogging a dead horse in the patent thread for weeks...
> 
> I actually agree for the most part though - but just as people should have a right to flog dead horses, others should be free to criticize such flogging.


Yup. And criticize I will, since it's already been covered 100 times over. But they should still have the right to flog if they want to.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Any boxes without cable cards that were in use before that cable card rule went into effect could still be used. So only boxes put into circulation after that rule need to have cable cards in them.


Hence my use of the word "new."


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

magnus said:


> I have been using OTA exclusively since 2006 when I dumped Directv but thought I might take a look at the costs associated with cable. The only cable company available in my area is Charter and I'm just not seeing the value at $59.99 (especially when these are not even the good channels). It does not make sense to go back to premium TV when so many local channels come in clear as a bell in HD already.


Why do you ask a question when you already know YOUR answer? Which can be, and is, different from someone else's answer? Why not just make your statement and be done with it?



magnus said:


> My intent was to get folks thinking... is it really worth it to me?* I'm getting 150 channels of stuff but do I really watch all of them? *


Ridiculous statement. Since cable doesn't have an a la carte system, if you want "X" channel, you may have to subscribe to a certain package to get it. The fact I get 150 channels means nada; the fact I get "HBO" (or whatever I really want) is all that matters TO ME.

I watch a lot of cable shows, too many to bore you with by listing. So I subscribe to the _everything I can_ package. It's my money, and I spend it how I choose.

Your intent wasn't to get people thinking. It was to make your point, and then try to show how everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. But this is the Internet, where opinions are like...


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Why do you ask a question when you already know YOUR answer? Which can be, and is, different from someone else's answer? Why not just make your statement and be done with it?
> 
> Ridiculous statement. Since cable doesn't have an a la carte system, if you want "X" channel, you may have to subscribe to a certain package to get it. The fact I get 150 channels means nada; the fact I get "HBO" (or whatever I really want) is all that matters TO ME.
> 
> ...


Whatever you say buddy. You know everything about me apparently.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Why do I keep forgetting the original question and the answer that was given on this Thread ???


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## Trekboy (Mar 9, 2007)

Finding cable less and less worth it these days. Go Hulu & Netflix!


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Why do you ask a question when you already know YOUR answer? Which can be, and is, different from someone else's answer? Why not just make your statement and be done with it?
> 
> Your intent wasn't to get people thinking. It was to make your point, and then try to show how everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. But this is the Internet, where opinions are like...





magnus said:


> Whatever you say buddy. You know everything about me apparently.


I'm sorry but I'm with astrohip, what I take away from this thread is that the intention was simply to stir the pot and create discourse with those you disagree with.

In other words my take is that this thread was created solely for you to argue in, not that there was ever any interest in answers.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

dianebrat said:


> I'm sorry but I'm with astrohip, what I take away from this thread is that the intention was simply to stir the pot and create discourse with those you disagree with.
> 
> In other words my take is that this thread was created solely for you to argue in, not that there was ever any interest in answers.


Well, I guess you guys all know me too well. Much better than I know myself apparently.

I wonder how many people I have argued with in this thread. I'm sure you can also point me to the places where I did that. It's so nice that we can have discussions and everyone seems to know exactly what's on other people's minds and what their intentions are. Anyway, since you guys both know me so well.... What's for dinner? I'm sure you will know before i do.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

Trekboy said:


> Finding cable less and less worth it these days. Go Hulu & Netflix!


amen


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## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

I would agree if I didnt like watching sports.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

magnus said:


> Well, I guess you guys all know me too well. Much better than I know myself apparently.
> 
> I wonder how many people I have argued with in this thread. I'm sure you can also point me to the places where I did that. It's so nice that we can have discussions and everyone seems to know exactly what's on other people's minds and what their intentions are. Anyway, since you guys both know me so well.... What's for dinner? I'm sure you will know before i do.


I'm just calling it like I saw it, and astrohip got the same impression that I did from this thread, that's all.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

dianebrat said:


> I'm just calling it like I saw it, and astrohip got the same impression that I did from this thread, that's all.


Btw, I had Fish and Chips @ Red Robin. It was pretty good. Then I went to see Oblivion. Also. was pretty good.

And since you're calling how you see it.... Where was it that I was arguing with folks in this thread? Since that had to be my obvious point that you are so certain of.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

When I first watched cable at a friends' house 20 or 30 years ago, I thought 'You are paying all this money for TV that still has commercials?' For some reason I thought the whole point of paying for cable was so you didn't have to watch commercials! And of course you don't have to watch commercials with HBO, Skinamax', and other premium channels, but to me cable is just not worth it except for those premium channels, and it cost too much with those premium channels. I watch all the HBO series by checking them out at the library. I guess that in some markets you can get a little antenna on your roof and get just HBO and other channels for less than having to pay for all the crud on cable and add HBO on. That is what I would do, if I had to have HBO.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

What is there to watch on OTA these days? Virtually all the good drama is on Cable channels!


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

zalusky said:


> What is there to watch on OTA these days? Virtually all the good drama is on Cable channels!


Good Wife, Elementary, Criminal Minds, The Mentalist, & CSI with current shows, and I like Numb3rs, Cold Case in syndication among others. 
I have my TiVos set up to record all movies and I find a lot of ones I enjoy. I do just delete a lot of them.

I buy a lot of used TiVos and I have always been surprised that most of the shows recorded on the TiVos are OTA shows rather than cable only shows.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

In some respects I'm finding cable more worth it and in some respects I'm finding cable less worth it. Like every time FiOS adds another Sports channel, I find cable less worth it. 

But overall I'm watching more and more programs on a wider variety of cable channels. And I'm paying less for cable now on FiOS than I did when I first got FiOS in 2007. And much, much less than when I had DirecTV between 2001 and 2006. And I'm getting more channels than I did back then as well so it's a much better value than it used to be.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

zalusky said:


> What is there to watch on OTA these days? Virtually all the good drama is on Cable channels!


Hmmmm.

The Good Wife and Scandal are the only OTA shows I watch regularly. I do watch local news occasionally. Most of what I watch is on cable channels.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

zalusky said:


> What is there to watch on OTA these days? Virtually all the good drama is on Cable channels!


I'd agree with that for the most part, but there are still a few good shows on network TV. Hannibal has quickly gotten my attention with outstanding scripts and acting, although it tends to get a bit gruesome.

Hulu+ - anything with commercials I have to pay for that I can get for free with an antenna takes it out of all contention. Not worthy of consideration IMHO. I don't believe they offer all network programs, but I could be mistaken. If that's true then it's a no-brainer.

Netflix - available movies and TV shows are old and chances are I've already seen anything of interest long before they make it available.

Streaming shows are compressed to save bandwidth. Both audio and video suffer as a result. MP4 format is somewhat acceptable except for the aforementioned caveats.

Cable and OTA provide everything I want to watch on TV and Netflix sends me Blu-Rays of current movie releases. Netflix gives me better selections and choices than premium channels with the highest quality available. I get what I pay for with the ability to skip commercials. That alone is worth the premium price for being able to record my shows to watch.

Skipping commercials saves me approximately 15 minutes for every 1-hour program I watch. I watch at least four 1-hour programs a day so I save at least one hour a day to do other things than vegitate in front of the TV.

People like streamed content because it's convenient. I like cable because it's higher quality and saves me time in the long run. You decide what's the smarter choice.



replaytv said:


> Good Wife, Elementary, Criminal Minds, The Mentalist, & CSI with current shows, and I like Numb3rs, Cold Case in syndication among others.


+1 for The Good Wife, Elementary, and Criminal Minds. I dropped The Mentalist because the plots were getting tiresome and repetitive. Same thing goes for Numb3rs. I dropped Cold Case because of CBS' scheduling tactics on Sunday nights. I think that was back when I had to use VCRs to record TV and couldn't pad my recordings as much. I stopped watching CSI (all versions) because it was simply stupid and implausible. The original CSI was good up to a point, as long as you discounted the complete lack of reality in their processes. They lost me after making too many roster changes. CSI New York and Miami were absolutely ridiculous. Lab rats don't leave the lab to chase bad guys with guns, ever.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Just went over to my sisters house and she had Directv. I must say that their system has gotten a lot better. You have one integrated playing list and you don't have to know which box a show is on. Also, the on demand is pretty nice too. It seems to download the show and put it into the playing list with an expiration date of about a month. I'm not sure how much it all costs her for 3 boxes but I do know she does not watch them much. 


I wonder why Tivo can't get an integrated NPL. It seems that Directv can do it. 


Apparently her MoCa was out and I needed to come over to troubleshoot it for her but that's what brothers are for.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

zalusky said:


> What is there to watch on OTA these days? Virtually all the good drama is on Cable channels!


My OTA season passes bring me: The Mentalist, Revenge, Once Upon a Time, Hawaii 5-0, Revolution, The Following, NCIS, NCIS LA, Golden Boy, Nashville, Person of Interest, Elementary, Grimm, Vegas, Blue Bloods, Smash and any of the PBS Masterpiece series.

For the USA network shows, I rely on Hulu to fill me in on White Collar, Royal Pains, Burn Notice, Suits, Fairly Legal, and Covert Affairs. The rest of the cable drama I can live and do live without.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

poppagene said:


> My OTA season passes bring me: The Mentalist, Revenge, Once Upon a Time, Hawaii 5-0, Revolution, The Following, NCIS, NCIS LA, Golden Boy, Nashville, Person of Interest, Elementary, Grimm, Vegas, Blue Bloods, Smash and any of the PBS Masterpiece series.
> 
> For the USA network shows, I rely on Hulu to fill me in on White Collar, Royal Pains, Burn Notice, Suits, Fairly Legal, and Covert Affairs. The rest of the cable drama I can live and do live without.


You really need to check out Shameless and some of the other premium channel specials via Netflix. This past season was awesome!


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

poppagene said:


> My OTA season passes bring me: The Mentalist, Revenge, Once Upon a Time, Hawaii 5-0, Revolution, The Following, NCIS, NCIS LA, Golden Boy, Nashville, Person of Interest, Elementary, Grimm, Vegas, Blue Bloods, Smash and any of the PBS Masterpiece series.


Before each new season I read up on all of the new shows being offered and then pick and choose which ones have the most promise to hold my interest. I watched at least one new episode of most of the shows listed above and pared the list down to about half of them. I won't go into my rationale since everyone has their own tastes in TV shows and will have their own pros and cons about each show that will likely differ from mine.

I record a lot of TV shows and only have so much time available to watch them. As a result, I tend to scratch shows from my lineup early in the new season. It's also the main reason why providers like Hulu+ will never get my business. I just don't have time to waste watching commercials. I do, however, have the ability to watch more shows in the same time frame.

A new show has to show me something special in the first one or two episodes and make me want to stick around for the rest of the season. For various reasons, the shows I dropped simply didn't offer anything new. Cop shows are a dime a dozen and rarely break new ground and are usually the first to get the axe. Spinoffs are rarely as good as the original, with but very few exceptions. Shows that have been around for a long time sometimes don't know when to quit while they're ahead.

The most frustrating part of finding a good show is that when I get attached to it the networks decide to cancel it due to poor ratings. A lot of quality network shows have gone the way of the dinosaur because some programming exec put it up against some popular reality show on another network and didn't get the ratings it deserved. Rather than move it to a time slot on a different night where it would fare better they simply delete it from the schedule and replace it with a reality show of their own.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

I usually don't watch TV shows until they go into syndication and/or are available at the libray or till friends tell me about a great show, so OTA and borrowing from the library work great.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

replaytv said:


> I usually don't watch TV shows until they go into syndication and/or are available at the libray or till friends tell me about a great show, so OTA and borrowing from the library work great.


I download books (e-ink and audio) from my library. Does your library offer video download?


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

replaytv said:


> I usually don't watch TV shows until they go into syndication and/or are available at the libray or till friends tell me about a great show, so OTA and borrowing from the library work great.


Most shows don't go into syndication until they reach 100 episodes or get canceled. You may end up waiting a very long time before you get the chance to see certain shows, if ever.

Most libraries have DVDs and videotapes available to borrow. Some shows never get released in either format so, once again, you potentially lose out on some good programming.

I like to watch shows that are current, mainly because a lot of the subject matter may relate to what's happening in real time. The exception to that rule is if it's a show based on a different period, like Mad Men.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

Beryl said:


> I download books (e-ink and audio) from my library. Does your library offer video download?


I don't know. Will have to look into it. 
I know that I miss a lot not having cable or dish, but I watch too much TV already, so better to miss something and spend more time playing volleyball, taking a walk with friends, ridding my bicycle, or walking the cat. Every minute you spend sitting on your butt your killing yourself, be it at work on the computer, watching TV, or reading a book.

I think I will start checking out book using MP3 players instead of CDs, then I won't have to bother with the CD changing. I will have to buy the batteries though. Too bad they don't come on a flash drive.

I do like to discuss BBT with my significant other, so it nice it is on antenna TV.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

replaytv said:


> I guess that in some markets you can get a little antenna on your roof and get just HBO and other channels for less than having to pay for all the crud on cable and add HBO on.


WHAT on earth are you talking about? Pretty sure nothing like that exists.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Bigg said:


> WHAT on earth are you talking about? Pretty sure nothing like that exists.


I totally missed that remark. I don't think it's possible to get HBO or any other premium channel without having some other programming package. I'm not even sure you can get it if you only have a basic cable package, but you'd have to check with your provider on that.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> I totally missed that remark. I don't think it's possible to get HBO or any other premium channel without having some other programming package. I'm not even sure you can get it if you only have a basic cable package, but you'd have to check with your provider on that.


They used to have a microwave transmitter in some markets where you could install a small dish aiming at a tower and did not have to go through Cable/Satellite.

I don't know if those providers still exist anywhere now though.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Bigg said:


> WHAT on earth are you talking about? Pretty sure nothing like that exists.


I don't know if any of these companies are still around, but they surely used to be. They provided the subscriber with a little line-of-site microwave dish and down converter and squirted one or two channels to them from a nearby tower.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I haven't seen anything like that for decades. I remember some of my fellow Engineers buying descrambler kits for these about 30 years ago from the back of electronics magazines. The providers disappeared within a year or two after they surfaced and cable moved into the area. I'd be surprised if any of them still exist today.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> I don't know if any of these companies are still around, but they surely used to be. They provided the subscriber with a little line-of-site microwave dish and down converter and squirted one or two channels to them from a nearby tower.


prism and i believe select tv maybe were 2 of them..or maybe just 1. too long ago


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Ok, there we go. That must have been a long time ago then. Nothing relevant to today. I don't think any providers will allow it with basic cable, I don't know about the "economy" package on Comcast or DISH.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

If they offered me this price, I would take it too.

I currently pay $45 for internet. I have called several times and have been told that even with "bundling" I would pay $50 additional for TV service and boxes and/or cable cards would cost additional amounts.

Dawn



farmermac said:


> Great point.
> 
> My Internet would run me $45 without cable. By bundling (and some negotiating) I'm paying $68 combined. So really, cable is about $23. No brainer, not going to go without the Internet.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

OP,

we got rid of satellite about 2.5 years ago now and really 90% of what we watched was on network TV, HOWEVER, what I found I missed more than anything, was the ability to record live TV or pause if I received a phone call or if the kids needed something.

And I really DO NOT miss the $1,200 per year I was spending for TV by the time I cut the cord.

Dawn


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

cable tv sucks today. almost every tv show is a reality tv show. the history channel is not worth having anymore.



magnus said:


> I have been using OTA exclusively since 2006 when I dumped Directv but thought I might take a look at the costs associated with cable. The only cable company available in my area is Charter and I'm just not seeing the value at $59.99 (especially when these are not even the good channels). It does not make sense to go back to premium TV when so many local channels come in clear as a bell in HD already.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tootal2 said:


> cable tv sucks today. almost every tv show is a reality tv show. the history channel is not worth having anymore.


Opinions about the value of cable are like a** holes, everybody has one. I don't understand what anybody is learning on this thread, you would think the mafia was making people take cable, if you don't like cable TV don't take it, if you don't like satellite don't get it, don't like Hulu don't get it, because someone thinks cable is a rip-off does not mean that person has to try to convince others that cable is a rip-off, we all have choices for our entertainment, from no TV in the home, to many other options. Some people have much more choice of TV or other entertainment service than others, as in living in NYC one may not need cable TV at all, to the middle of Kentucky.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

tootal2 said:


> cable tv sucks today. almost every tv show is a reality tv show. the history channel is not worth having anymore.


Completely and utterly false, this is by some estimates the golden age of TV because of the excellent cable shows in the past few years.

Just ignore the junk, there's plenty of good stuff on.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

tootal2 said:


> cable tv sucks today. almost every tv show is a reality tv show. the history channel is not worth having anymore.


So I'm guessing you're another one that's cutting the cord? Don't like cable? Don't watch it. We don't care one way or the other.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

But if it's a scripted show, odds are you'll save money by dumping the monthly cable bill, going OTA, and buying whatever 'cable' shows you want a la carte, commercial-free, from Amazon Video (you can even 'subscribe' and have them automatically pushed down to your Tivo)

That's what I do.



slowbiscuit said:


> Completely and utterly false, this is by some estimates the golden age of TV because of the excellent cable shows in the past few years.
> 
> Just ignore the junk, there's plenty of good stuff on.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ncbill said:


> But if it's a scripted show, odds are you'll save money by dumping the monthly cable bill, going OTA, and buying whatever 'cable' shows you want a la carte, commercial-free, from Amazon Video (you can even 'subscribe' and have them automatically pushed down to your Tivo)
> 
> That's what I do.


You still lose sports and news, and if you add up more than a couple shows, you end up back at a cable subscription. Especially since, at least with Comcast, the internet goes up $15/mo without TV.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ncbill said:


> But if it's a scripted show, odds are you'll save money by dumping the monthly cable bill, going OTA, and buying whatever 'cable' shows you want a la carte, commercial-free, from Amazon Video (you can even 'subscribe' and have them automatically pushed down to your Tivo)
> 
> That's what I do.


I watch too much sports on cable, no go for me.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

ncbill said:


> But if it's a scripted show, odds are you'll save money by dumping the monthly cable bill, going OTA, and buying whatever 'cable' shows you want a la carte, commercial-free, from Amazon Video (you can even 'subscribe' and have them automatically pushed down to your Tivo)
> 
> That's what I do.


Way too much trouble for the average (read: 99%) of cable subscribers/watchers. I don't want to go thru all these shenanigans. I subscribe to every channel known to man. I set my TiVo, and I watch them. Boom! Done! Money well spent.

And oddly, I don't watch any sports, cable or OTA.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

I'm skeptical given the full-freight price of digital cable here is $100/month, add $20/month for each cableco DVR.

At $3 per commercial-free HD episode (-15% for any subscriptions) I can buy hundreds of cable episodes annually for far less than paying monthly for digital cable (remember, any OTA shows are free).

Bundling helps, but here on TWC it still costs around $120/month (after taxes & fees) for a triple-play.



Bigg said:


> You still lose sports and news, and if you add up more than a couple shows, you end up back at a cable subscription.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That's about what I pay for the TV portion of my bill. However I've found that I mostly watch cable shows these days. Most of the network stuff is crap. Also with the a-la-carte model it's harder to get into new shows because you have to pay for the episodes to decide if you even like the show. With cable I can watch a few episodes of a show and if it sucks I can dump it, no harm, no foul. When paying $3/episode I'd be more selective and might miss out on something I would have liked or end up buying something I hate.

Although for me the amount I pay for cable is relatively insignificant. For the amount of time we spend watching TV it's pretty cheap entertainment.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

My FiOS bill is $106 a month which includes 75/35 internet and ultimate TV along with 5 CableCARDs at $3.99 a pop. 

At $25-$30 a month cable is definitely worth the price here especially based off how much I watch.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

My Triple Freedom package (TV, landline phone with unlimited long distance and 20/5 internet) is about $168 monthly. That includes Xtreme HD, but no premiums, three cablecards and one HD STB plus about $20 for the piddly BS charges nobody knows anything about (WTF is a Federal Universal Service Fee?).


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ncbill said:


> I'm skeptical given the full-freight price of digital cable here is $100/month, add $20/month for each cableco DVR.
> 
> At $3 per commercial-free HD episode (-15% for any subscriptions) I can buy hundreds of cable episodes annually for far less than paying monthly for digital cable (remember, any OTA shows are free).
> 
> Bundling helps, but here on TWC it still costs around $120/month (after taxes & fees) for a triple-play.


I added it up once, and as soon as you start watching a couple a week, cable ends up being a good chunk of the price, and you still don't get news and sports. You multiply that over a whole family, and cable is a LOT cheaper. I have a pretty good deal on Comcast too, I'm paying $90/mo for Blast! and all the digital cable channels plus HBO. When my two-year deal is up, maybe the other cable company will not suck, and I'll switch, or I can at least use the other company to threaten Comcast into giving me something good.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

tootal2 said:


> cable tv sucks today. almost every tv show is a reality tv show. the history channel is not worth having anymore.


you are watching the wrong stuff.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Bigg said:


> I added it up once, and as soon as you start watching a couple a week, cable ends up being a good chunk of the price, and you still don't get news and sports.


This absolutely. I pay $70/month for Comcast cable. Here are just some of the cable shows I watch and what it would cost ($3/episode).

Vikings - $30
Mad Men - $39
Justified - $39
Sons of Anarchy - $39
Walking Dead - $48
American Horror Story - $30
Top Chef - $51
Breaking Bad - $48

That's $324 for 8 cable shows. I have SP's for over 50 shows on cable. Assuming an average of 13 episodes per show, it would cost nearly $2,000 to watch all of the cable shows I get for $840 with Comcast.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I personally have a hard enough time keeping up with all the season passes that I have set up for OTA. I usually keep some shows on my Tivo until the summer to watch and then just do a marathon. I imagine by the time I might watch them then they might even be on Netflix or Hulu. That still would be cheaper than paying $3 per episode. Anyway, still am of the opinion that if I could bundle service then I might have a different take on the whole thing.


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## Eddie501 (Jun 4, 2004)

The thing that's wearing me down about cable programming is the constant on-screen junk. I've almost learned to live with the station ID bug in the lower left. But the new trend seems to be the constant wall of text on the bottom right promoting some other show. And the animated promos that occasionally parade across the screen.

Ad into this the commercials & it's almost worth paying $3 for a clean, commercial free experience where I don't have to peek through the junk for a glimpse of the program.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Eddie501 said:


> The thing that's wearing me down about cable programming is the constant on-screen junk. I've almost learned to live with the station ID bug in the lower left. But the new trend seems to be the constant wall of text on the bottom right promoting some other show. And the animated promos that occasionally parade across the screen.
> 
> Ad into this the commercials & it's almost worth paying $3 for a clean, commercial free experience where I don't have to peek through the junk for a glimpse of the program.


+1 for the animated crap at the bottom of the screen. Do we really need to be reminded about other shows constantly? The part about commercials is one of the major reasons I switched from Tivo to a HTPC. I use an app that maps the commercials in every recording and allows me to skip past them automatically or manually by pressing a button on the remote. It's not 100% foolproof (no commercial skipping app is) so I opt for the manual approach. There are times when I have to skip by fast forwarding, but for the most part it works pretty well.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Eddie501 said:


> The thing that's wearing me down about cable programming is the constant on-screen junk. I've almost learned to live with the station ID bug in the lower left. But the new trend seems to be the constant wall of text on the bottom right promoting some other show. And the animated promos that occasionally parade across the screen.
> 
> Ad into this the commercials & it's almost worth paying $3 for a clean, commercial free experience where I don't have to peek through the junk for a glimpse of the program.


The animated bottom screen junk is annoying. I don't mind commercials I am interested in. I usually watch movie trailers and TV show commercials well at least until I have seen them a few times.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> The animated bottom screen junk is annoying. I don't mind commercials I am interested in. I usually watch movie trailers and TV show commercials well at least until I have seen them a few times.


Same here. That's why I choose to skip commercials manually. If I see something that catches my eye, like a movie trailer, I'll stick around and watch it. Otherwise, I skip ahead to the show.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Eddie501 said:


> Ad into this the commercials


I see what you did there.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Bigg said:


> Especially since, at least with Comcast, the internet goes up $15/mo without TV.


For me this meant that it didn't make sense to drop below limited basic - I get more local stations than I can receive OTA with no dropouts and it costs about the same as dropping cable TV altogether.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Way too much trouble for the average (read: 99%) of cable subscribers/watchers. I don't want to go thru all these shenanigans. I subscribe to every channel known to man. I set my TiVo, and I watch them. Boom! Done! Money well spent.
> 
> And oddly, I don't watch any sports, cable or OTA.


I wouldn't say Amazon is "too much trouble". It's incredibly easy to use and more and more people are using it. Young people don't want anything to do with the high cost of cable when Amazon is so cheap and easy.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> I wouldn't say Amazon is "too much trouble". It's incredibly easy to use and more and more people are using it. Young people don't want anything to do with the high cost of cable when Amazon is so cheap and easy.


Yep, seems like it would be easy enough to setup a season pass to download automatically to your Tivo with Amazon.


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