# Is it permitted...



## technomutt (Jun 14, 2004)

...to discuss the location of the Tivo service number for any of the series?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Why would one need to discuss it?

It is on the back label, and on the System Info screen. That is all you need to know. 
Where on/in the TiVo hardware it is is not important to this forum.


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## technomutt (Jun 14, 2004)

I was going to leave this alone until your reply. Why is it OK to swap out hard drives or hack the software yet "sacred" to locate the unit's ESN (electronic serial number)? Keeping a Lifetime unit alive, no matter what, can involve soldering. For example, a lightning strike on the phone line can toast half the motherboard... but the ESN chip survives. Get another identical unit on Ebay, warm up the soldering iron, and you're good to go.

I have learned what I need to know to revive Series 1 and older Series 2. Beyond that, with Tivo's new pricing scheme, it really doesn't matter. Even if you have a lifetime unit, the Multiple Service Discount is now also subject to a 3-year commitment if you want the $6.95/month pricing. 

Frankly, I think Tivo is pricing itself into extinction. It's a shame.


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## jporter12 (Mar 10, 2006)

Or, if they would have you send in the old, defective TiVo, and send you back a new one with the lifetime transferred to it? Just thinking aloud.


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## chris22 (Aug 31, 2006)

It costs $200 to transfer lifetime. No Exceptions unless you really bug the CSR... then you have a chance..


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

technomutt said:


> I was going to leave this alone until your reply. Why is it OK to swap out hard drives or hack the software yet "sacred" to locate the unit's ESN (electronic serial number)? Keeping a Lifetime unit alive, no matter what, can involve soldering. For example, a lightning strike on the phone line can toast half the motherboard... but the ESN chip survives. Get another identical unit on Ebay, warm up the soldering iron, and you're good to go.
> 
> I have learned what I need to know to revive Series 1 and older Series 2. Beyond that, with Tivo's new pricing scheme, it really doesn't matter. Even if you have a lifetime unit, the Multiple Service Discount is now also subject to a 3-year commitment if you want the $6.95/month pricing.
> 
> Frankly, I think Tivo is pricing itself into extinction. It's a shame.


The answer to why is as simple as razor blades. Thats right razor blades. Gillette and Schick will give away their handles and make all of the money selling razor blades. Tivo does or is trying to do the same thing, Sell the boxes at a loss and try to make it up in the service. The reason the the ESN chip is sacred is because it is what they use to indentify the lifetime units and they now make all their money selling the service that the lifetime units are getting for free (well you paid for the lifetime thing but that is another discussion). The lifetime that they are talking about is the lifetime of the tivo not you. Tivo dies one less lifetime unit they are not getting monthly money from more money for tivo.

For discussions sake, what is a fair amount to pay monthly to tivo as a service fee? Has Tivo actually started turning a profit yet? Its been a while but the last I checked they were still losing money. That might be something to also consider, is that if they are actually making money they haven't been for many years. I think back in 2004, 2003(?) they actually had their first profitable quarter. Have they paid off all the startup debt yet?


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## technomutt (Jun 14, 2004)

I get the distinct impression I've opened a rather large and smelly can of worms...  

I guess the real question is: when is a Tivo truly dead? From the perspective of the "Lifetime" service, I would say death occurs when the ESN can no longer be read. Any other defect can be repaired... and indeed there are numerous threads here discussing such repairs. 

I'll wager there are subroutines in the PROM of Series "2.5" and up that can detect if the ESN chip has been transplanted, just as if the software has been hacked. The Series 1 units have no such detection. I suspect the older Series 2 units also have no such protections, and would need a simple "clear and delete everything" to recover.

However, if discussion of the ESN chip is deemed to be sacred, I will obey the Tivo gods and drop the subject.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

Personally I couldn't care less. You posed a question and I answered it. You also stated you thought that pricing was too high, I asked what do YOU consider a fair price for services (given we were talking a monthly fee I assume no lifetime service). The deal about moving the ESN chip is purely an ethical issue between you and, well you. I have no idea if the talk around the esn chip is off limits or not. I just like seeing how far people are willing to twist the meaning of words to get a result they like. Or if they have no ethical conflicts whatsoever. I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that the *intent* of the lifetime of the unit really isn't as long as you can desolder a chip from a board and move it to a new board. Using that logic you could replace every part in the tivo except that and then you could say a brand new lifetime subscription unit.

On a tangent but related topic did you know that by law Florida Orange Juice has to use 10% Florida oranges? So I guess you aren't the only one.


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