# Lost 11/01 ***SPOILERS***



## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

Wow


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

Another Taili.


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

Stuff happened. I'm happy.

The main character newly departed wasn't a surprise. Juliet becoming more un-trusting than Ben is.


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## MamaKAS (Jul 28, 2004)

Bummer, my favorite character gone.


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## JadeWolf07 (Jan 1, 2004)

Can't believe I hadn't thought of this earlier, but from this episode it pretty much seems that the smoke monster is morphing into human form (i.e. Eko's brother, among others), and leading the survivors around the island, which I guess makes sense for all the 'hallucinations'.

Oh, and if you get cited for a traffic violation in Hawaii, you will be killed.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Awesome!!!


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I figured they would kill off one of those red shirts!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

A new hottie,
Smoke monster stuff.
My man Eko gone, bummah!
And what's with the Others babe and the mindgames she's playing with Jack?


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## thudtrain (Sep 29, 2005)

JadeWolf07 said:


> Oh, and if you get cited for a traffic violation in Hawaii, you will be killed.


  :up:


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## Ave (Aug 31, 2006)

Wow. Very cool episode, Eko was awesome and it's sad that he's gone. How many tail 'losties' do we have left now?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Absolutely loved this episode.. Sorry to see Eko go (or, happy to see him move on, if they ever pull a 180 and say this is anything _like_ purgatory..  )

The videotape thing w/Jack was one of those kick-to-the-chest too-cool scenes that make you jump up and down in your seat.

Don't know who to side with (and I _love_ that they have us not knowing who to side with) - Ben or Juliette.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ave said:


> Wow. Very cool episode, Eko was awesome and it's sad that he's gone. How many tail 'losties' do we have left now?


The flight attendant went missing, Bernard is still alive.. Are those the only two? Can't remember - too overwhelmed by the episode.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Awesome!!!


Hey did you read the whole thread 

I kind of figured that the smoke monster was a shape shifter. The important question is why is it playing with all of them like this?

Another important question is why Ecko? He was cool. Why not that usless bag of flesh Charlie. Or Evangeline "I can't act my way out of a bag" Lilly? They have figured out ways to get new hot chicks on, she is expendable.

Is next week the final episode of this batch? Damn it was so much easier to power through this on DVD.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> The videotape thing w/Jack was one of those kick-to-the-chest too-cool scenes that make you jump up and down in your seat.
> 
> Don't know who to side with (and I _love_ that they have us not knowing who to side with) - Ben or Juliette.


Maybe its me, but someone asking you to murder someone makes me just a wee bit wary, even if she is hot.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Particularly liked hearing Locke reveal that he saw a beautiful bright light.. Time to look up that eye chart again - I assume that Eko and Locke started with different eyes?


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

JadeWolf07 said:


> Oh, and if you get cited for a traffic violation in Hawaii, you will be killed.


Eko got a ticket as well?


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

So was the smoke monster Eko's judge, jury, and executioner?

And when Locke saw it the first time, did he see it as light?

And WTF is with the mechanical sounds, that riddle alone is driving me up the wall.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Figaro said:


> Why not that usless bag of flesh Charlie. Or Evangeline "I can't act my way out of a bag" Lilly? ... she is expendable.


Y'know, right up until I read this I always thought I was for free speech...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Awesome!!!





Figaro said:


> Hey did you read the whole thread


LOL. That's exactly why I posted such a short first post!  Even if someone else had said it was awesome while I clicked Submit, it ain't smeeking to agree with that.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Mike Farrington said:


> And WTF is with the mechanical sounds, that riddle alone is driving me up the wall.


Sounds a bit like a dot-matrix printer.. (like the one in the pearl hatch)


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Yes...Bernard is all we have left. The rest died or vanished. 

Very disappointed to see Eko go, as I thought him and Locke made an interesting pair. I guess his only real purpose was in redeeming Locke.

So who else could the smoke monster have pretended to be? Hurley's insane friend that tried to get him to jump off the cliff. Jack's dad. Anyone else?

What's odd is that the smoke monster would appear that it needs people alone to kill them. It initially left Eko when Locke and the others showed up. It seems to have lured Eko away from the hatch before killing him. Any opinions on why?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Smokie killed the pilot who was not alone


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## alltimesaresoon (Jul 28, 2006)

uh what did EKO SAY?

what i said . . .

sounded like i saw her dirt, or i saw her church


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Yes...Bernard is all we have left. The rest died or vanished.


But is Bernard a true tailie? He was seated with Rose, but got up to use the bathroom.


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## thudtrain (Sep 29, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> So who else could the smoke monster have pretended to be? Hurley's insane friend that tried to get him to jump off the cliff. Jack's dad. Anyone else?


I can't remember, but was there weird smoke-monstery sounds when Shannon saw Walt before she ran after him and AL shot her?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Mike Farrington said:


> But is Bernard a true tailie? He was seated with Rose, but got up to use the bathroom.


Good point.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> Smokie killed the pilot who was not alone


I think it was some sort of monster that killed the pilot, but I'm not sure.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> So who else could the smoke monster have pretended to be? Hurley's insane friend that tried to get him to jump off the cliff. Jack's dad. Anyone else?


Kate's horse! Maybe Sawyer's boar? I don't think it was the tree frog. 
Maybe Walt?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

alltimesaresoon said:


> uh what did EKO SAY?


According to Locke, he said that they (Locke and the others) are next. Presumably, that means next to be killed/judged/whatever it was that happened to Eko.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Anyone get a good look at the guy in the hatch? with the patch? Familiar face


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## JadeWolf07 (Jan 1, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> So who else could the smoke monster have pretended to be? Hurley's insane friend that tried to get him to jump off the cliff. Jack's dad. Anyone else?


Maybe the horse that Kate and Sawyer both saw?

But I don't know why, that one seemed kinda pointless.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh yeah, two things:

1) When he said "What did he say?" I ALMOST said out loud to my wife "You're next!" but decided not to say it. Wish I had!

2) When we heard the smoke monster, we not only heard the mechanical sound, but we also heard the roar-ish low-whine sound that we heard in the pilot - which implied to me that _this_ was the monster that we saw knocking down trees.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

thudtrain said:


> I can't remember, but was there weird smoke-monstery sounds when Shannon saw Walt before she ran after him and AL shot her?


None of the sounds that we've come to associate with the monster. There was one very subtle sound just before the gunshot, but it doesn't sound like anything particular. Almost sounded like it was just part of the "music" or mood soundtrack.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Mmmmkay. So Eko dies, but we get Tweedle Dee ("The toilet still works") and Tweedle Dum. 
Tweedle Dum: "He said station-*s*. So maybe we can use these other monitors. " 
Locke: (in the voice of those animated Guiness guys)"BRILLIANT!!!"


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

This was a really good episode. But I think a lot of people will agree with my husband who said, "They killed of one of the only characters I still care about."

What about the guy with the eye patch?

I think the way Eko met his end makes it look more like a purgatory-esque situation. He died after he resolved himself to how he had lived his life. (Same was kind of true of Shannon and Boone too; they came to terms with their "issues.") Of course, it looks like maybe Eko didn't resolve it the way he should have.

The Others. They had this grand plan to beat Jack down and brainwash him into thinking they were not the enemy, so he would operate on Ben? Why didn't it occur to them to act like decent people and ask for his help instead? Didn't their mamas ever say "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Episode blew. Went nowhere. Solved so little. I liked the Juliet/Ben twist but otherwise it is BORING. I am just starting to not care. They better get off their high horse and get back to the basics if they want to stop hemoraging viewers. 

Only good thing is they got back with the island/mythical stuff a little tonight which is what I like the most about the show. But surely they will screw that up next week.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Hey, how about Toilet Guy??? "toilet still works" I was ready for him to go. Flush him!!!


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Did anyone else think that maybe Juliette's little message to Jack is just another trick? Maybe Jack seeing the X-rays, and Ben "coming clean" to Jack are just another part of their plan.

From the preview for next week, "the best episode of the year" (pretty clever ABC, it's the last episode of the year):


Spoiler



Looks like Kate and Sawyer get a little skin-on-skin action!! HOMINA HOMINA!!!


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Mike Farrington said:


> I think it was some sort of monster that killed the pilot, but I'm not sure.


*Sigh* It's the same thing. They've showed us various times it's the same thing.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> Did anyone else think that maybe Juliette's little message to Jack is just another trick? Maybe Jack seeing the X-rays, and Ben "coming clean" to Jack are just another part of their plan.


Yes, I was wondering about the whole thing and who is playing Jack more - Ben or Juliet?

And Bens speech about his 'spinal surgeon falling out of the sky" that made me wince. Jack, its a guilt trip!! Don't fall for it!!!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> The Others. They had this grand plan to beat Jack down and brainwash him into thinking they were not the enemy, so he would operate on Ben? Why didn't it occur to them to act like decent people and ask for his help instead? Didn't their mamas ever say "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?


People tend to deal with other people as if other people were like them...


betts4 said:


> Hey, how about Toilet Guy??? "toilet still works" I was ready for him to go. Flush him!!!


Do you have any friends on the Hawaiian Highway Patrol?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

As Mqpickles said.....what about the guy with the Eyepatch? Just who is Eyepatch guy? Is HE Hanso? And how did he notice that they were watching him so quickly? Because he is watching them????


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> People tend to deal with other people as if other people were like them...


 So, their mamas didn't teach them that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Yes, I was wondering about the whole thing and who is playing Jack more - Ben or Juliet?


Or might they be working together after all? Good cop, bad cop.

Oh, and I liked that Ben said "Didn't you notice how much Juliet looks like your ex-wife?" I couldnt' help saying, "A lot of other people noticed."


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

betts4 said:


> As Mqpickles said.....what about the guy with the Eyepatch? Just who is Eyepatch guy? Is HE Hanso? And how did he notice that they were watching him so quickly? Because he is watching them????


It was spooky how it seemed like he was seeing them from inside the tv screen. (Not saying he did see them from inside the tv, just that it kind of looked that way.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> So, their mamas didn't teach them that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.


No, their mamas taught them that. They just didn't trust their mamas.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

betts4 said:


> And how did he notice that they were watching him so quickly? Because he is watching them????


Some cameras have a red light when they are recording. Thats a possibility, but I don't think that's it.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

The sound the monster makes is that of a NYC cab printer. They have said that is what the sound is.

Things that the smoke monster has been? 

Possibly:
Jacks Dad
Kate's horse
Sawyer's Bore
wet walt
voices
polar bear
vincent
Dave
Hurley Bird
Others circle of torches


Any other possibilities?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Boone


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Figaro said:


> The sound the monster makes is that of a NYC cab printer. They have said that is what the sound is.
> 
> Things that the smoke monster has been?
> 
> ...


ekos brother?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Test said:


> ekos brother?


I left that out due to it being pretty much explained this episode.

Boone? That could have just been from some good Locke made drugs.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Charlie's worthless, off key singing ass still gets to stalk Claire while Eko gets killed off? 5-0 don't mess around!

Only three interesting characters left: Locke, Sayid & Hurley.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> The flight attendant went missing, Bernard is still alive.. Are those the only two? Can't remember - too overwhelmed by the episode.


Let's just hope that she took a taxi home -- that way she still has a chance, since we never saw her getting killed.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Mike Farrington said:


> And WTF is with the mechanical sounds, that riddle alone is driving me up the wall.


It's that same roller coaster chain sound that we heard when Locke was being dragged toward the hole in the ground at the end of season 1.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

So this should put to rest those wondering how the smoke monster could have gotten the pilot way up in the tree. And, assuming that the smoke "morphed" into Yemi this explains all of the hallucinations we've seen.

Now, anyone else think that Eko was killed because he didn't repent? I'm not saying he was wrong in what he said, but it really looked like his "brother" was very upset with him for saying that he wasn't sorry.

The "you're next" comment must have been about the judgement part, not the getting killed part.

I know it's only been a couple of weeks, but I'm starting to really get annoyed with the new characters. Other than filling out a pre-approved budget, is there really any need for them?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

<bobby brady> Mom always said, don't drink and drive in Hawaii! </bobby brady>


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> Mmmmkay. So Eko dies, but we get Tweedle Dee ("The toilet still works") and Tweedle Dum.
> Tweedle Dum: "He said station-*s*. So maybe we can use these other monitors. "
> Locke: (in the voice of those animated Guiness guys)"BRILLIANT!!!"


I like how they're trying to give them some back story: "You're always whining about not being included, now here's your chance!" Yup. That'll convince me you've been there for two seasons of Lost ...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> The Others. They had this grand plan to beat Jack down and brainwash him into thinking they were not the enemy, so he would operate on Ben? Why didn't it occur to them to act like decent people and ask for his help instead? Didn't their mamas ever say "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?


If this grand plan was true, it would explain why The Others made Michael bring Jack back, but we still don't know why they wanted Kate and Sawyer.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Figaro said:


> The sound the monster makes is that of a NYC cab printer. They have said that is what the sound is.
> 
> Things that the smoke monster has been?
> 
> ...


Wet Walt? Sounds like a Porn movie. Hurleys bird sounds like a sequel. Oh wait, we got Sawyers Boar in there too. No, I don't think we should match the smoke monster up with the hallaucinations they have had. And we know where the Polar Bear and the Horse came from.....the Zoo hatch.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Why did Ben invite Jack to Colleen's funeral? To show they are civilized and respect their dead? I see they took back Jack's clean loaner shirt, so they're not THAT civilized ...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

scottykempf said:


> Did anyone else think that maybe Juliette's little message to Jack is just another trick? Maybe Jack seeing the X-rays, and Ben "coming clean" to Jack are just another part of their plan.


...except we saw Ben whisper to Juliette "Why'd you show him my x-rays?", presumably out of Jack's earshot.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

drew2k said:


> <bobby brady> Mom always said, don't drink and drive in Hawaii! </bobby brady>





drew2k said:


> I like how they're trying to give them some back story: "You're always whining about not being included, now here's your chance!" Yup. That'll convince me you've been there for two seasons of Lost ...


See, I'd combine those two.. the brady bunch part and the brand new characters we're supposed to accept part..

..Cousin Oliver!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

betts4 said:


> No, I don't think we should match the smoke monster up with the hallaucinations they have had. And we know where the Polar Bear and the Horse came from.....the Zoo hatch.


No we don't know that for sure.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Now, this was a real Lost episode! Mixing up the stories, instead of focusing only on one group at a time. And dear Lord, could it be?

Honestly?

Losties actually ... TALKING to each other? As I live and breathe!

Topics shared were Eko's brother, the small plane crash, the Pearl hatch, the computers in the hatch, what happened to the Swan station. Even had Locke telling Desmond to tell Sayid what he knew. 

I agree with what several others have already said - I believe the smoke monster is responsible for many if not all of the hallucinations. Yemi's response to Eko after his confession gave it away. "You speak to me like I am your brother."

Ben used a funny term I had never heard before, when "confessing" to Jack about trying to break him. He said his plan had been "shot to sunshine". Okay. Who else thinks that Ben's confession is simply part of the breaking down of Jack?

And bad news folks - Bernard may as well be dead. 5 episodes in and not one peep so far. I think we're plumb out of tailies.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

I was genuinely moved by the way they handled Eko's death. The shot of his younger self and his brother walking away together....whew...some tears flowed. I am sad to see this character go because I always thought he was pretty cool.

The two new people...toliet guy and smart lady figuring out the tv's...every time I see them I think "oh wow, these people won some kind of 'Lost' contest and this is their walk-on role prize." In other words, no screen presence.


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## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

JadeWolf07 said:


> Can't believe I hadn't thought of this earlier, but from this episode it pretty much seems that the smoke monster is morphing into human form (i.e. Eko's brother, among others), and leading the survivors around the island, which I guess makes sense for all the 'hallucinations'.
> 
> Oh, and if you get cited for a traffic violation in Hawaii, you will be killed.


I called this one almost 2 months ago 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=314773


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Some things (some of which I saw a partial rewatch):

* They briefly foreshadowed Eko's death, by having Hurley tell sleeping Eko "Stay alive dude.. okay?"

* The hut Eko was in _burned_.. something caused that fire.. so that rules Yemmi(sp) out as a hallucination.. and if he was the smoke monster, the smoke monster is able to operate a lighter (or form a lighter AND cause fire).

* There were a few reused scenes in Eko's flashbacks that made me sing the Simpsons song "sorry for the clip show......". Felt a bit tacked on to handle any new audience members.

* Loved the acting on Ben's actor's part reacting to Jack's statements

* I think I noticed about 19 others at the funeral (20 if you count the dead chick).. (not significant, just for reference)

* Ok, so Desmond tells Locke that he thinks he's pretty sure the computer wasn't just for pressing the button, but that you could communicate with them too.. Locke acted like this was new info (he told Desmond to tell Sayid "what you just told me").. But Locke and Eko spliced in a segment of the orientation video that specifically said not to try to use the computer to try to communicate, as that could lead to another "incident".. Locke shouldn't have been surprised, and/or he shouldn't have considered this new info.

* "Don't mistake coincidence for fate." 

* Never heard someone say something got "shot to sunshine".. Shot to hell, sure, but sunshine? Has anyone else heard this phrase (maybe it's regional?). Just seemed weird.. (especially in an episode where Locke said he saw a bright light).. (The line, btw, is when Ben says that their plan got shot to sunshine when Jack saw the x-ray). Probably nothing - just never heard the phrase.

* I wonder if he did find out about his spinal problem 2 days before the crash, or if that was just a line for Jack? I'm inclined to think the former.. Yet another interesting coincide- er, fate.

* I liked that when Locke had a knife to his throat, he didn't say "Why are you so mad?", but instead said "What are you so afraid of, Eko?". Thought we'd see a bit more about that though.

1/2 way through rewatch - might as well end the post here to catch up on posts that happened while typing this, lest I - well - you know.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Delta13 said:


> Ben used a funny term I had never heard before, when "confessing" to Jack about trying to break him. He said his plan had been "shot to sunshine".


Agh! That was posted while I typed my reply, after being completely caught up.. No way that counts as smeeking. 

Glad I'm not the only one that thought it was weird.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Gotcha, Jeff!


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

*Oh My God! They Killed Eko!!!!
You Bastards!
*



wprager said:


> Now, anyone else think that Eko was killed because he didn't repent? I'm not saying he was wrong in what he said, but it really looked like his "brother" was very upset with him for saying that he wasn't sorry.


Yes, I'm pretty sure that had he repented or asked for forgiveness, Rover (the black smoke) would not have attacked.

Now is this part of the reason why Number 1 (Ben) and company are concerned with who's good and who's not?

Hope this isn't the last we see of Eko.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ok, some more:

* Smoke monster or not, why is Yemmi's body gone?

* Called the repeat of the line "You don't know who I am". 
(except, of course, no contractions.. Just like Data.)

* Who else, when they heard Juliette say "I'm sorry for bringing you here" wondered for a second which she meant by that - across the island - or to the island? (Just for a second)

* Man.. Go back and pause it on the "Ignore everything I'm saying" posterboard.. Just looking at that still alone just gave me shivers.. Such a good scene.

* I _really_ like the fact that at the end of her tape, she gets a bit of automatic control over Jack.. She says "Now tell me to turn the movie off", and he does it.. (He really has no choice - he has to say that).. Almost like pushing the button for the first time, he's now started "playing her game" - he went along with part of what she told him to say.. And it's a bit of a barometer for her to guage where he's at.. (I suppose he did have some choice - he could have screamed up to the camera "BEN! SHE'S TRYING TO KILL YOU! TAKE ME TO THAT RED SOX GAME!").. Very cool.. The whole scene with the video tape is my favorite part of this episode by far - probably my favorite thing in the past 3-4 episodes..

* "You owe Yemmi a church" - good reason for why he was building one w/Charlie.. Glad they wrapped that up.

* When I saw the area that Eko walked out onto before saying he didn't ask for forgiveness, I said out loud how beautiful that place was.. The hills behind it look like ones on Kauai, but I'm pretty sure I heard it was all filmed on another island (Oahu?).

* Eko's whole speech - about how he asks for no forgiveness, and that he didn't ask for the life that he was given - but it was given nonetheless - and that with it he did his best.. Some of my favorite Eko dialog of the entire series.

It's gonna be a long week.. (and then a longer 2-3 months, I'm sure..)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

By the way, here's the part of Kauai that I thought looks like the Eko-does-not-want-redemption scene tonight:


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Eh, just went back and saw at the end of the credits:

Filmed entirely on location on Oahu, Hawaii

Didn't spend much/any time on Oahu.. (one week on Kauai, one on the big island, and one on Maui). I'll bet Oahu's even more popular now because of the show..


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

This entire episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know AAA was a big pain in the ass on set and asked to be let go of his contract, but I didn't like the way he was hastily written out of the show. This was the first episode this season that he was active-if you don't count his polar bear rescue 2 weeks ago. If they were going to let him go, why not have him killed off in the season finale in the hatch, and have us wait all summer to see if he lived, if only to have him killed not soon after. There is only 1 episode left in the "mini-season" and I feel as if this has been completely sqaundered. I'm sure the cliffhanger next week is going to be great-but we'll wait 4 months for the next episode and I'm sure it won't even be addressed when it comes back.

The scene with Juliette and the cue cards on the other hand-was great.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

LOST IS BACK, BABY!

(Note to cast members: obey all traffic laws while in Hawaii.  )


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

spikedavis said:


> This entire episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know AAA was a big pain in the ass on set and asked to be let go of his contract, but I didn't like the way he was hastily written out of the show. This was the first episode this season that he was active-if you don't count his polar bear rescue 2 weeks ago. If they were going to let him go, why not have him killed off in the season finale in the hatch, and have us wait all summer to see if he lived, if only to have him killed not soon after. There is only 1 episode left in the "mini-season" and I feel as if this has been completely sqaundered. I'm sure the cliffhanger next week is going to be great-but we'll wait 4 months for the next episode and I'm sure it won't even be addressed when it comes back.
> 
> The scene with Juliette and the cue cards on the other hand-was great.


Ditto. I thought last week's episode was good, but I was disappointed in this one. Didn't know he had asked to be let go, though. Where'd that info come from?

Did we really learn anything new this episode? Next week's better be good. This one just seemed like pure filler.

Dying words that we don't get to hear? How original.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

atrac said:


> I was genuinely moved by the way they handled Eko's death. The shot of his younger self and his brother walking away together....whew...some tears flowed.


My fiancee and I realized that Eko died very differently than anyone else on the island has. The producers have clearly made his death stand out from the others with this scene. A moment as if he is "moving on" if you want to buy into the purgatory stuff thats been discounted.

Every other death on the island, the people simply died. Dead. Boone, Shannon, AL, Libby. They all just died.

But they were all shot by other people or were accidents, Eko is the first person killed *by the island*. There is a significance here. Maybe the pilot was reunited with his pet goldfish or something and we just didn't see it, but Eko is the only one of our characters that was killed by the island itself. It means something and its a different kind of death. Something else happened in that moment.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

And Ben dying has to look like an accident *to who?* Just the other Others that support him? Or somebody else or something more?

And is it just me or is this new guy Paolo surprisingly distant and bored with the goings on.

"Why do you want to go on an expedition?" 
"Sweet, a bathroom."
"There's your computers. Yawn."

And he doesn't even seem particularly surprised when Pirate Col. Tigh shows up on the Parrot hatch monitor.


----------



## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

From another writer:

Who is the one-eyed man? Did we find his eye in the Arrow hatch inside a bible with the missing Orientation film clip? 

- I completely forgot about that.

But Bernard is the only one left who's been to the Arrow hatch that could tell them about the One eyed man in the Parrot hatch.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

scottykempf said:


> Mmmmkay. So Eko dies, but we get Tweedle Dee ("The toilet still works") and Tweedle Dum.
> Tweedle Dum: "He said station-*s*. So maybe we can use these other monitors. "
> Locke: (in the voice of those animated Guiness guys)"BRILLIANT!!!"


This was the *weakest* part of the show - and I mean from the day the Pilot aired. Pathetic scene...and acting. Now we have Boobs, and her stupid sidekick to look forward to.

What a waste killing off Eko.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> This was a really good episode. But I think a lot of people will agree with my husband who said, "They killed of one of the only characters I still care about."


While I do like other characters on the show, Eko was one of the best. I really think they goofed by deciding to off him. I will admit that they did an awesome job of offing him though.



> I think the way Eko met his end makes it look more like a purgatory-esque situation. He died after he resolved himself to how he had lived his life. (Same was kind of true of Shannon and Boone too; they came to terms with their "issues.") Of course, it looks like maybe Eko didn't resolve it the way he should have.


I agree, and although it's not the most creative ending to the whole _LOST_ story, I wouldn't have a problem with it because the ride is fun


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

wprager said:


> Now, anyone else think that Eko was killed because he didn't repent? I'm not saying he was wrong in what he said, but it really looked like his "brother" was very upset with him for saying that he wasn't sorry.


Yes. I do.



> The "you're next" comment must have been about the judgement part, not the getting killed part.


I thought / think the same thing.



> I know it's only been a couple of weeks, but I'm starting to really get annoyed with the new characters. Other than filling out a pre-approved budget, is there really any need for them?


The new guy has annoyed me from first sight. He belongs on an episode of _Friends_, not on _LOST_. I think Boobs is there as a weak attempt to replace the next female they kill off (Kate or Claire?).


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

atrac said:


> ... The two new people...toliet guy and smart lady figuring out the tv's...every time I see them I think "oh wow, these people won some kind of 'Lost' contest and this is their walk-on role prize."


Now that was funny


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Vito the TiVo said:


> My fiancee and I realized that Eko died very differently than anyone else on the island has. The producers have clearly made his death stand out from the others with this scene. A moment as if he is "moving on" if you want to buy into the purgatory stuff thats been discounted.
> 
> Every other death on the island, the people simply died. Dead. Boone, Shannon, AL, Libby. They all just died.
> 
> But they were all shot by other people or were accidents, Eko is the first person killed *by the island*. There is a significance here. Maybe the pilot was reunited with his pet goldfish or something and we just didn't see it, but Eko is the only one of our characters that was killed by the island itself. It means something and its a different kind of death. Something else happened in that moment.


Got to disagree. We watched the pilot being ripped from the cockpit by what we now have seen as the shape shifting smoke monster, exactly like Eko. I don't know if the SSSM *is* the island, whatever that really means, but they died the same way.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

> Originally Posted by spikedavis
> 
> This entire episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know AAA was a big pain in the ass on set and asked to be let go of his contract, but I didn't like the way he was hastily written out of the show.


I didn't know that he wanted out of the show. Do you know why he wanted out? Knowing that makes me feel better because I think killing him was a mistake, but at least it let's the writers/producers off the hook- kind of...

As for the way the did it, I thought it was really well done.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> Got to disagree. We watched the pilot being ripped from the cockpit by what we now have seen as the shape shifting smoke monster, exactly like Eko. I don't know if the SSSM *is* the island, whatever that really means, but they died the same way.


You can disagree with the island/meaning something part. But it is fact that the editing in of a flashback with sentimental music was a different portrayal of death than we have seen with any other character to date.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Some cameras have a red light when they are recording. Thats a possibility, but I don't think that's it.


The camera was panning to its right to capture the room. He probably noticed it suddenly moving.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Mike Farrington said:


> I think it was some sort of monster that killed the pilot, but I'm not sure.


It was the same thing. Last night we saw the monster's modus operandi that it used to kill the pilot.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Test said:


> Anyone get a good look at the guy in the hatch? with the patch? Familiar face


Until we get a name, I think we should call him "Tigh".


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> ...except we saw Ben whisper to Juliette "Why'd you show him my x-rays?", presumably out of Jack's earshot.


The key word being _presumably_. I really got the feeling the whole thing was and is a setup.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Vito the TiVo said:


> You can disagree with the island/meaning something part. But it is fact that the editing in of a flashback with sentimental music was a different portrayal of death than we have seen with any other character to date.


I was disagreeing with


Vito the TiVo said:


> Eko is the first person killed *by the island*... but Eko is the only one of our characters that was killed by the island itself..


That simply isn't true. I do agree that the psychology of this death may have been different, but I can't help but be reminded of the Bridgekeeper in Monty Python's Holy Grail. "What ... is your favorite color?" "Blue, no yel...."


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

The fact that they showed the scene of Ben talking to Juliette shows that there IS a rift between them. I don't think the whole Juliette video is something that Ben is in on. What we will find out now is WHO is the "bad guy". Is Juliette the noble one? Or is Ben really a "good guy"? 

My theory is that Juliette will turn out to be the "bad guy". She set Ben up by showing Jack the x-rays. But the biggest clue of all is something Sawyer said to Kate after he started the fight. "She would have killed you." He obviously saw something in her that was different from the other Others.

What her motives are, I HAVE NO CLUE. 

My biggest confusion now is: What is the relationship between the Others and the Smoke Monster? Are these two separate story lines that exist on the same island coincidentally? Or do the Others know or control this monster?


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Test said:


> Anyone get a good look at the guy in the hatch? with the patch? Familiar face


My first impression was that it was Ron Perlman, but upon re-watching, I'm not all that sure. Definitely Perlman-esque.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

This whole thing reminds me of Michael Crichton's book Prey. There was a swarm of nanobots (think hive mind) that could organize into shapes...or people.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

I think Juliete is the big schemer here. I just can't buy what she is saying. I think there is a rift between her and Ben and she wants the power.

Maybe I missed something but it seemed like the return of Sayid was pretty sudden with no mention of Sun or Jin and no questions like "Hey Sayid, where is that nice sailboat you left with?"

I think "boobs" is kinda hot...not a terrible addition but her friend is an idiot.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Great episode. I was really sorry to see Eko go - I felt his character had the potential for a lot of growth. Story-wise, I wonder about JYoung's point....had he asked for redemption, would he have been spared?

Although clearly this is the best look we've gotten of the smoke monster, and the sounds clearly implicate it in the pilot's death, I'm not so positive it's taking human/animal form the way others have assumed. We've never seen the smoke "coalesce" into something else. We also always hear the machine noises when the smoke is around - and have not heard those noises when the other-people-who-shouldn't-be-there are around (like Eko's brother, Jack's dad, wet walt, etc).

It's quite possible the smoke monster and whatever is imitating other people are one in the same. It's also possible they're separate entities - although from tonight's episode they're working together.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Eh, just went back and saw at the end of the credits:
> 
> Filmed entirely on location on Oahu, Hawaii
> 
> Didn't spend much/any time on Oahu.. (one week on Kauai, one on the big island, and one on Maui). I'll bet Oahu's even more popular now because of the show..


No, that part was in the Kaaawa Valley on the Eastern side of Oahu, here:


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

:down: New characters. Sore thumbs.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

I missed about five minutes because the power flickered and my receiver took a little bit to reboot. It went off as Juliette was coming in to see Jack carrying a covered dish, like something you would get from room service at a fancy hotel. I came back to see Eko, Locke, et al tromping through the forest toward the plane. The next time I saw Jack, he was asking Juliette whats wrong, you dont trust me anymore?



What did I miss?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Eyepatch:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=486


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

This tree was cool:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=574


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## TiMo Tim (Jul 20, 2001)

drew2k said:


> If this grand plan was true, it would explain why The Others made Michael bring Jack back, but we still don't know why they wanted Kate and Sawyer.


Maybe as leverage to keep Jack in line? (Due to history of the whole Kate/Jack thing) And ditto for Sawyer-- to keep Kate in line?


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## TiMo Tim (Jul 20, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> See, I'd combine those two.. the brady bunch part and the brand new characters we're supposed to accept part..
> 
> ..Cousin Oliver!


I've heard they're gonna have a new Darren next week.

(oops-- should I have spoilerized that?)


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Jack will not kill Ben, he's too much of a boyscout when it comes to the whole surgery thing.

I mean he took an Oath you know.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> Jack will not kill Ben, he's too much of a boyscout when it comes to the whole surgery thing.
> 
> I mean he took an Oath you know.


I agree. Unless they really show Jack something to convince him that killing Ben will not only improve his, but also his friends and the other castaways situation I can't see him doing it. Jack would need a VERY good reason to kill someone, especially under the guise of helping them.

Taking the word of someone you don't really trust to kill someone else you don't trust doesn't cut it for Jack.


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## bqmeister (May 13, 2006)

In a way, I'll be happy when this mini season is over.
Cause when lost comes back in February, my HDTV will be setup!


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

TiMo Tim said:


> Maybe as leverage to keep Jack in line?


If that was the case, then they would have let Jack see Kate locked in the cage...


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> This tree was cool:


Yes, it definitely was. I was POSITIVE it was the smoke monster, and that it was going to reach down and grab him.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

The Others have pagan funerals, apparently. Cheesy neo-pagan funerals. Their funeral rites don't support the theory that they are descended from the four-toed statue culture--unless they were converted by Dharma hippies.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I thought at least the raft and fire seemed pretty much like a Viking funeral to me.


I also keep thinking that the whole thing with Ben and Juliet is a long con. I am not sure how it will end, but they have spent too much time introducing us to the parts fo a long con through Sawyer and much of the show has dealt with how various characters' perception of reality clouds things and can allow them to be manipulated. It just seems like too much for the whole thing not to turn out to be some form of manipulation of Jack.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I think the whole Juliet/Ben is a test for Jack. Juliet is trying to get Jack to agree to kill Ben. If he does they won't let him perform the surgery. So they can be covering their bases now to see if he would be willing to "make" a mistake. Why wouldn't they be working together?


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> Why wouldn't they be working together?


Power.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

AstroDad said:


> I missed about five minutes because the power flickered and my receiver took a little bit to reboot. It went off as Juliette was coming in to see Jack carrying a covered dish, like something you would get from room service at a fancy hotel. I came back to see Eko, Locke, et al tromping through the forest toward the plane. The next time I saw Jack, he was asking Juliette whats wrong, you dont trust me anymore?
> 
> What did I miss?


She gave jack a cheeseburger with all the fixins. They were chatting then Benry came in and asked he to leave. He then tells jack that his ultimate plan was botched when Jack figured out that he had a spinal tumor.

..asked jack if he believed in God, jack asks "do you?"....he replies along the lines of "2 days after I found out I had a spinal tumor a spinal surgeon drops out of the sky."


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

There is no way Jack will botch the surgery on purpose. If so, it is a radical departure from his character. I could see him refusing to do it altogether but even that is unlikely.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> I missed about five minutes....It went off as Juliette was coming in to see Jack carrying a covered dish...I came back to see Eko, Locke, et al tromping through the forest toward the plane.


Juliette brought Jack a hamburger. He said "you people have hamburgers?" and she said something about killing the cow, baking the bun, etc by herself. Jack jokingly said "what, no ketchup?". It was pretty clear she was getting really buddy-buddy with jack. He was really starting to take to her, and they were really comfortable together.

Ben came in and said he wanted to speak to jack. Juliette said "ok" and just sat there. Ben said "alone". Jack said something like "no, she can stay". Ben said something about doctor patient confidentiality and Juliette left.

Ben said their plan to break Jack was ruined when he saw the xrays. The plan was to get him convinced they WERE the good guys, and to get him "invested" in the group to where he'd want to help. Then he'd WANT to do the surgery on Ben. He said something about didn't he notice that Juliette had a striking resemblence to his ex-wife...thats why she was chosen to be the one to break him.

The next time Juliette came in (when you saw) she was on the other side of the glass, whereas like I had mentioned, she had gotten buddy buddy with him and was comfortable coming into the room with him. Since she was on the other side, she must not trust him now...thinking Jack might hurt her now that he knows she was part of breaking him. Thats the reason for jacks comment whats wrong, you dont trust me anymore?

As for Eko and Locke, I don't think you missed anything there.

Edit: danplaysbass...thanks, I forgot about the part with the belief in god and spinal surgeon dropping out of the sky.

P.S. About your power loss....thats why I have my TiVo and cable box on a battery backup. If the power goes out, they can record for hours. My cable modem and VOIP adapter are also on battery backup so I can maintain phone service. They aren't expensive...You can find them under $50 on sale, especially with day-after-thanksgiving sales coming up in a few weeks.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Roadblock said:


> Did we really learn anything new this episode?


  I don't even know how to begin to address that.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

NatasNJ said:


> I think the whole Juliet/Ben is a test for Jack. Juliet is trying to get Jack to agree to kill Ben. If he does they won't let him perform the surgery. So they can be covering their bases now to see if he would be willing to "make" a mistake. Why wouldn't they be working together?


We know that there is tension between Juliet and Ben. We know that Juliet resents his overbearing rule. I think she really does want to kill him, but she doesn't have the power for an outright coup (or she doesn't want to splinter the group). However, if Ben were to conveniently die, she would take power as next in the line of succession.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Patch dude looks like John Malkovich in the above pics....


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

NatasNJ said:


> I think the whole Juliet/Ben is a test for Jack. Juliet is trying to get Jack to agree to kill Ben. If he does they won't let him perform the surgery. So they can be covering their bases now to see if he would be willing to "make" a mistake. Why wouldn't they be working together?


Have to agree. Everything with the Others seems to involve some type of psychological test to see how the subject, in this case Jack, reacts. I refer back to my oh so briliant  hypothesis from a few episodes back: Ben Lyons = Been Lyin', Us.

I don't even think it was a coincidence that the x-ray was left up for Jack to see. I'm also not convinced that the x-ray is even for real. Surprised nobody's mentioned this, but haven't we already learned that the Island cures illnesses such as cancer? Rose anyone? Locke? Unless Ben is immune to the effects of the island having lived there his entire life, it seems to me that even if he did get cancer, he needn't fear it for very long. As the only doctor amongst the others is a fertility doctor, it stands to reason that they haven't had to deal with too much disease, which would support the argument that the Others do benefit from the Island's apparent healing powers.

If I'm wrong, and Ben does have cancer, can we surmise that this is the news that caused Julia to cry at the begining of the season premier? He had only learned about it two days earlier.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

danplaysbass said:


> She gave jack a cheeseburger with all the fixins. They were chatting then Benry came in and asked he to leave. He then tells jack that his ultimate plan was botched when Jack figured out that he had a spinal tumor.
> 
> ..asked jack if he believed in God, jack asks "do you?"....he replies along the lines of "2 days after I found out I had a spinal tumor a spinal surgeon drops out of the sky."


Thanks!


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## mikieminnow (Mar 16, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Eyepatch:
> http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=486


John Malkovich?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> I don't even know how to begin to address that.


Yeah, by this point I've decided that the people who keep complaining about not learning anything have a radically different idea of what "anything" means, at least in the context of a television show.

But that's cool. Different strokes for different folks. If every show appealed to everybody, they'd be so bland and boring they wouldn't appeal to anybody.


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## mikieminnow (Mar 16, 2004)

Alfer2003 said:


> Patch dude looks like John Malkovich in the above pics....


Sorry for the smeek...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

3D said:


> If I'm wrong, and Ben does have cancer, can we surmise that this is the news that caused Julia to cry at the begining of the season premier? He had only learned about it two days earlier.


And that seems to be why Ben stopped going to book club, only the others didn't seem to know why. Maybe only Juliet knew the real reason, hence her tears?

Could it be that Juliet is actually in love with Ben, and as others posited, she is just testing Jack to ensure he will not kill Ben on the OR table?


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

I'm starting to think Juliette is the real leader around there. I mean, I think Ben actually reports to her, not the other way around.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Lee L said:


> I also keep thinking that the whole thing with Ben and Juliet is a long con. I am not sure how it will end, but they have spent too much time introducing us to the parts fo a long con through Sawyer and much of the show has dealt with how various characters' perception of reality clouds things and can allow them to be manipulated. It just seems like too much for the whole thing not to turn out to be some form of manipulation of Jack.


I agree with this. I now think Juliet is testing Jack, and by playing usurper and feeding him a cheeseburger, she has already gotten him to follow simple instruction (end the video now), which is a step or two away from fully trusting her. Ben said that was the plan all along - to get Jack to trust him - so what difference is it if Jack instead trusts Juliet, who tells Jack what to do based on outside discussions with Ben?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> * The hut Eko was in _burned_.. something caused that fire.. so that rules Yemmi(sp) out as a hallucination.. and if he was the smoke monster, the smoke monster is able to operate a lighter (or form a lighter AND cause fire).


Or the smoke monster just directly ignited the hut ... no reason for an all powerful smoke monster to actually form a cigarette lighter first!


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> We know that there is tension between Juliet and Ben. We know that Juliet resents his overbearing rule. I think she really does want to kill him, but she doesn't have the power for an outright coup (or she doesn't want to splinter the group). However, if Ben were to conveniently die, she would take power as next in the line of succession.


WE know? Ummm. Not really. There power struggle can and PROBABLY is just part of their con on Jack. They act like their is this power struggle and how she wants to overthrow Ben, then Ben comes in and gives Jack an ego boost by saying we had this plan to break you but time is running short, then Juliet comes and asks the question if he will make a mistake. All part of the con if you ask me.

Could their be internal descent in the Others? sure. But NOTHING I have seen yet suggests that everything they have done isn't planned and well thought out.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Lost action figures? Yup.
http://www.spawn.com/toys/series.aspx?series=318

The coolest:
http://spawn.com/news/sdcc06_lost_photo_06_dp.html (Slide show.)


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

The guy with the patch looks like Captain Feathersword. They did fly from Austrailia right.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

The Kate doll looks nothing like her, but the rest are pretty good.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

NatasNJ said:


> Could their be internal descent in the Others? sure. But NOTHING I have seen yet suggests that everything they have done isn't planned and well thought out.


Not even the scene when Ben questions Juliette about the x-rays? Remember, there were now Losties involved in that conversation, so we can assume it is a legit question to her. Ben SURELY didn't think that showing the x-rays was part of the plan.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

Barmat said:


> The guy with the patch looks like Captain Feathersword. They did fly from Austrailia right.


Oh crap, and Hurley offered someone fruit salad last week! The others are the Wiggles!!!


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> Oh crap, and Hurley offered someone fruit salad last week! The others are the Wiggles!!!


Isn't it rumored that Greg Wiggle has cancer too? The leader with cancer? Coincidence...I think not.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> Not even the scene when Ben questions Juliette about the x-rays? Remember, there were now Losties involved in that conversation, so we can assume it is a legit question to her. Ben SURELY didn't think that showing the x-rays was part of the plan.


Also, in the Season Opener Juliette was touchy about Ben. She seemed angry with him then, not distraught over recently finding out he had the big C


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

AstroDad said:


> Also, in the Season Opener Juliette was touchy about Ben. She seemed angry with him then, not distraught over recently finding out he had the big C


We don't know that Juliette knew about Ben's cancer at that time. He told Jack he'd found out just a few days before the crash.

Edited to add: She was upset in the intro, and we don't know why. Maybe she did know.

I think there's been a few hints that Juliette and Ben are not best buddies. I don't think that's a con. However, I wouldn't put it past Ben to use Juliette to test Jack's intentions.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

AstroDad said:


> Also, in the Season Opener Juliette was touchy about Ben. She seemed angry with him then, not distraught over recently finding out he had the big C


But the two are not mutually exclusive. She could have conflicting emotions. The people we are most "touchy" about are often the ones we love. Of course, I only threw that out there as an alternate suggestion, as I still think that he doesn't even have cancer.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

drew2k said:


> Or the smoke monster just directly ignited the hut ... no reason for an all powerful smoke monster to actually form a cigarette lighter first!


Well, where there's smoke, there's fire.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

BTW, just a little pet peeve here.

Its' J-u-l-i-e-t.

Like in Romeo and...


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

AstroDad said:


> Also, in the Season Opener Juliette was touchy about Ben. She seemed angry with him then, not distraught over recently finding out he had the big C


I agree.

Scenes we've seen of the others interacting with each other (not "played to" any losties for their benefit) give us strong clues that Juliet and Ben have great animosity for one another. Also, the way I see it, Juliet hates Ben more than Ben hates Juliet.

So, I'm inclined to think that Juliet's video was not a mind-***k or a "test", but was genuine. She wants Jack to deliberately botch the surgery on Ben.

The question regarding Ben and Juliet now is, who's "good" and who's "evil".

Ooops... I've said in these threads that within Lost, there's no "good" or "evil", just different motives, agendas, and perspectives.

So, to put that question another way: Which would be in the better interest of our Losties, to off Ben or to save him?

Finally: :down: :down: :down: for killing off Eko! 

The real world "coincidences" surrounding lost are becoming as unbelievable as those within the script of the show! I'm referring to: "Get a traffic ticket and your character dies on the show."

I can't believe the producers are so crass to have that as a "rule."

Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> I can't believe the producers are so crass to have that as a "rule."


They don't.


Fish Man said:


> Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?


No, not at all.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> No, not at all.


*Outrageous* real-world coincidence then!


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

sorry if this is a smeek (I'm at the end of page 1), but I knew Ecko was going to get killed because in his flashbacks, he was clean shaven. Jack and Sawyer always have grubby faces in the flashbacks, but Ecko looked like he just washed off the shaving cream!


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

It's a spinal tumor, not cancer.

I don't think they meant Jack to know the X-rays were Ben, and I believe Ben when he says they are abondoning their initial plan. Whether what's happening now is a new plan or not, I'm not convinced.


----------



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

hefe said:


> BTW, just a little pet peeve here.
> 
> Its' J-u-l-i-e-t.
> 
> Like in Romeo and...


Have we seen her name written down and I missed it? I have seen that name spelled both ways


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

AstroDad said:


> Have we seen her name written down and I missed it? I have seen that name spelled both ways


It's on the character guide on the ABC website.


----------



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

hefe said:


> It's on the character guide on the ABC website.


I stand corrected then and will start spelling it correctly. Thanks heefee!


----------



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> *Outrageous* real-world coincidence then!


Eko's ticket (can't remeber or spell the actor's name) was a minor violation that was dropped. Not a DUI, like the other two. Also, the actors who play Sawyer, Charlie, and I think one other have gotten speeding tickets and haven't been killed off.


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

its a pet peeve because you read the character guide on abc?

it peeves you b/c we didn't read the character guide?!!!

just kidding, I hope its really not a big deal to you!


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

and... the new chick is kinda hot, but I really don't need her to talk.. she can just walk around in the background. (not really a sexist remark, I just mean I don't want to invest in her 'character' at all..)

its not like we didn't get enough new characters this season.

and the guy- come one. he's gotta be next!!


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

AstroDad said:


> Oh crap, and Hurley offered someone fruit salad last week! The others are the Wiggles!!!


For the second week in a row we're talking about The Wiggles in a Lost thread. I'm starting to wonder if we need a rule forbidding discussion of The Wiggles in non-Wiggles threads...


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

goMO said:


> its a pet peeve because you read the character guide on abc?
> 
> it peeves you b/c we didn't read the character guide?!!!
> 
> just kidding, I hope its really not a big deal to you!


It's not a huge deal, but when I see it written at least 3 different ways, it makes me wonder, which is correct, so I check. If I can play a small part in setting it right, then so be it.


----------



## Roommate (Apr 23, 2003)

I don't think Juliet asking Jack to kill Ben is a "test" - at least, not in any way that Ben is in on it. Mostly because it seems the only way to know whether Jack will go through with it is for him to actually go through with it. Kind of like drowning someone to find out if they're a witch.

They obviously can't talk about it out loud, and I don't see Juliet getting confirmation one way or the other from Jack until Ben is on the operating table. So count me in the "strife amongst the Others" camp.

(woohoo! my first post!)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ScottE22 said:


> For the second week in a row we're talking about The Wiggles in a Lost thread. I'm starting to wonder if we need a rule forbidding discussion of The Wiggles in non-Wiggles threads...


It would probably be best if we just had a rule barring discussion of any show other than the one the thread is about. That would eliminate any possible confusion over what is allowed.


----------



## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?


I don't think this would hold up...not for a second. Traffic violations are a matter of public record and both fans and journalists would be all over it. If they tried to fool us like that they would be caught red handed.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

hefe said:


> Well, where there's smoke, there's fire.


Not in the Lost universe. In the Lost universe, where there's smoke, there's mirrors. And when the smoke clears and you break the mirror, there's more mirrors and smoke behind it.

This episode was decent, but did not redeem the season for me as it apparently did for others.

I think the pearl hatch was a cheat. Last time we saw it, there was one monitor working and the rest were static, indicating to me that other cameras were not working. Now apparently we see SOME of the stations work but all the tvs monitor the one camera? What?


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

atrac said:


> The two new people...toliet guy and smart lady figuring out the tv's...every time I see them I think "oh wow, these people won some kind of 'Lost' contest and this is their walk-on role prize." In other words, no screen presence.


This probably the best description of something on the show ever!


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

About the "How did eyepatch guy know they were watching him question". When Locke and Eko first found the Pearl hatch Eko notices a camera in the hatch aimed at them. They didn't point it out this time, but maybe he was watching them?


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Vito the TiVo said:


> From another writer:
> 
> Who is the one-eyed man? Did we find his eye in the Arrow hatch inside a bible with the missing Orientation film clip?
> 
> ...


I thought that they found a glass eye when they were getting the dynamite from the Black Rock?


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It would probably be best if we just had a rule barring discussion of any show other than the one the thread is about. That would eliminate any possible confusion over what is allowed.


Indeed it would. :up: You know I was making a joke, right? As a dad I just thought it was funny how many other dads and moms think the same way...

OT - I, too, was sad to see Eko go. I had heard spoilers that "someone" major was going to die but had tried to avoid finding out who it was. He was a very intriguing and sympathetic character who I thought was played very well by AAA.

RE: Juliet and Ben conning Jack together... That would be a pretty elaborate and fortuitous setup -- _knowing_ Jack would plan to escape and inadvertently flood the hatch, _knowing_ that Juliet and Jack would drain the hatch in time, _quickly_ (and in the midst of trying to save one of their own) putting Ben's x-rays conveniently in Jack's sight... Plus, their relationship out of Jack's sight has seemed a little tense.

I'm not saying it's not possible as the Others are a slick bunch, I'm just saying it wasn't my first reaction.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I think the pearl hatch was a cheat. Last time we saw it, there was one monitor working and the rest were static, indicating to me that other cameras were not working. Now apparently we see SOME of the stations work but all the tvs monitor the one camera? What?


But Sayid wasn't there. And we all know if Sayid is around, then anything with wires suddenly works!


----------



## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

The eyepatch guy looks like the Col. from the early seasons of Malcolm in the Middle.

What did AAA do on the set that made him hard to work with? Why did he want off the show? He was going to be one of the major losties.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Figaro said:


> I thought that they found a glass eye when they were getting the dynamite from the Black Rock?


Oh, yeah, wasn't that in the other hatch...an Arrow hatch or something?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Not in the Lost universe. In the Lost universe, where there's smoke, there's mirrors. And when the smoke clears and you break the mirror, there's more mirrors and smoke behind it.


Heh...Well played.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> Jack will not kill Ben, he's too much of a boyscout when it comes to the whole surgery thing.
> 
> I mean he took an Oath you know.


This might be a smeek since I'm only halfway through the thread but, I think part of the reason they had Jack operate on "Trixie" was to see if he's actually try and save her or if he would half heartedly attempt to save her. What I think they saw was that DID try and save her. In some flashbacks they've showed how dedicated a doctor he is (saving his wife early on in S1 showed that). So I think that he WILL try and save Ben if he actually does the surgery (and I think he will).


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Ok I have been mulling it for hours now. I am still really pissed about Eko getting powned. There was still a lot of mileage left in that character. It was just too damn fast. There are so many others (no pun intended) who are ready to die. 

It should have been Kate. She was cool in the beginning but ever since the first meeting at the "line" when she was grabbed by the others she has been nothing but a useless chippie. Her death could have have been a huge motivation for Jack and Sawyer. But no instead we have to have the soap opera love interest angle with her instead. Ugh! 

Kate and Charlie are still at the top of my death list, but the new Losties are in hot pursuit. Bearing down on our smack addict and chippie like the replacement Duke's in the General Lee.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Magister said:


> What did AAA do on the set that made him hard to work with?


From watching the bonus DVD of Season 2, he just seemed like a general PITA. Like changing up the character and the storyline from the way it was first written, and other things like that.

I think things like the book club scene and the scene with Juliet and Ben talking out of earshot of Jack are supposed to show us that whatever they say and do in those situations is real. So, count me in the camp of "those really are Ben's X-Rays" and "Juliet really does want Jack to kill Ben."

As for "shot to sunshine," I haven't heard it. But I have heard "shot to" something else starting with an "s." That could be what they were going for.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Figaro, you've got some serious psychological issues with women characters on TV shows... I really hope that future threads of Lost won't consist of 30 posts from you about various ways you wish they'd killed kate.

And if you care about yourself, stay far away from nip/tuck.


----------



## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

spikedavis said:


> This entire episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know AAA was a big pain in the ass on set and asked to be let go of his contract, but I didn't like the way he was hastily written out of the show.


According to TV Guide, Carlton Cuse said: 
_"When Adewale came on the show, he didnt want to make a long-term commitment to a series. We love him and so we agreed that he would come on the show and then we would find a time in which his arc would come to an end."_
Full story
http://community.tvguide.com/forum.jspa?forumID=700000049


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

goMO said:


> sorry if this is a smeek (I'm at the end of page 1), but I knew Ecko was going to get killed because in his flashbacks, he was clean shaven.


      Oh CRAP!!!!!!! I just shaved this morning!!!!!!! Are you saying I'm going to die???????? Or just that if later in my life I have a flashback where I remember being clean shaven today, that I'll die then????

(ps. I'm not sure I really get what you were trying to say)


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Figaro, you've got some serious psychological issues with women characters on TV shows... I really hope that future threads of Lost won't consist of 30 posts from you about various ways you wish they'd killed kate.
> 
> And if you care about yourself, stay far away from nip/tuck.


I have issues with two female characters on all of the shows that I watch. Both characters are portrayed by actresses who cannot act a lick. If I wish to post dreams of their demises I most certainly shall do so.

Now go back to your Lana shrine!


----------



## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?


It crossed my mind last night, but as others have mentioned I think there'd be legal problems with that.



goMO said:


> and the guy- come one. he's gotta be next!!


At least they're not introducing him for the first time on the episode he dies on then. I hated that they did that with Arntz (sp?), it always bugs me when a show introduces a character on a particular episode just to kill them off or have them be "the villain" (if it's CSI or something) at the end. If they're introducing new-guy for a couple-of-episode arc and then he dies, I'm fine with that.

Although, to be fair, I think I would have done the same as him re: the bathroom if I were in his situation


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

Im still wondering where they are holding Jack. Hes been taken out of holding a couple times now. Was the funeral the first time he was taken out without a bag over his head (apparently)? Wasnt there some thought that they were holding him in a submarine?

-murray


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Figaro said:


> Kate and Charlie are still at the top of my death list, but the new Losties are in hot pursuit. Bearing down on our smack addict and chippie like the replacement Duke's in the General Lee.


I don't know...I could stand to see more of them...


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

"shot to sunshine" returns no google results and "shot to sun" only returns a couple results (most of which can easily be determined to mean something entirely different).

Also, for anyone with an extra couple bucks in your pocket, www.shottosunshine.com is available


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

danplaysbass said:


> Maybe I missed something but it seemed like the return of Sayid was pretty sudden with no mention of Sun or Jin and no questions like "Hey Sayid, where is that nice sailboat you left with?"


We didn't see everything that occured since Sayid and others returned, so it seems likely this occured outside of what was shown. Why waste time showing Sayid explaining to the rest of the Losties what the television audience already knows?


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

mask2343 said:


> Not even the scene when Ben questions Juliette about the x-rays? Remember, there were now Losties involved in that conversation, so we can assume it is a legit question to her. Ben SURELY didn't think that showing the x-rays was part of the plan.


I'm not saying I'm convinced by either theory yet, but maybe showing Jack allowing Jack to see the x-rays was Juliet's improvisation to her and Ben's combined plan - possibly explaining Ben's comment about it at the funeral.


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

hefe said:


> I don't know...I could stand to see more of them...


...and by "them" I assume you're referring to the pair of new Losties, right?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> goMO said:
> 
> 
> > sorry if this is a smeek (I'm at the end of page 1), but I knew Ecko was going to get killed because in his flashbacks, he was clean shaven.
> ...


If the actor shaved for the flashback scenes, it would be difficult for him to go on unshaven...


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

ScottE22 said:


> ...and by "them" I assume you're referring to the pair of new Losties, right?


Pair of *what*?


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> My biggest confusion now is: What is the relationship between the Others and the Smoke Monster? Are these two separate story lines that exist on the same island coincidentally? Or do the Others know or control this monster?


I think the Others know about Smokie which fuels their obsession on who's "Good" and who's "Bad".



LordKronos said:


> The next time Juliette came in (when you saw) she was on the other side of the glass, whereas like I had mentioned, she had gotten buddy buddy with him and was comfortable coming into the room with him. Since she was on the other side, she must not trust him now...thinking Jack might hurt her now that he knows she was part of breaking him. Thats the reason for jacks comment whats wrong, you dont trust me anymore?


Well I do think it would have been difficult to operate the VCR from Jack's side of the glass.

I'm still think that the real reason they are holding Kate and Ford is because they are the known murderers.
I'm guessing that they didn't know about Eko or perhaps he was left out because he expressed regret to Ben/Henry in the hatch.

Or... if they control Smokie, they sicced it on Eko because he's a multiple murderer he also was the most dangerous to them (killing two of them in the first couple of days).

And I had thought that the new two Losties were there mostly for exposition but maybe not...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> Pair of *what*?


Yeah, that must be new slang.

Oh, those kids and their new slang.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> ...I think "boobs" is kinda hot...not a terrible addition but her friend is an idiot.


I was really glad when I saw that Kiele Sanchez ("Boobs" as she is known here) was joining the cast. I have liked her since "Married to the Kellys" and again on "Related".

However, other than being great to look at, she has added NOTHING to "Lost". Her character & Tidy Bowl Man feel like they are totally out of place on this show. The did a lousy job of adding these two characters to the Losties. As someone else said, it's as though they won a walk-on part.

By the way, there are some great pictures of her on the Internet. They should be relatively safe for work (bathing suits, not nude).


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I liked the episode. I was sad to see Eko get killed off as I liked his character, but I liked that finally things seem to be happening.

I'm very surprised that nobody's mentioned Locke's speech back on the beach which was basically for our (the critical viewer's) benefit. Hurley was surprised that Locke was asking people to go on the expedition and mentioned that Jack never asked and never told anyone anything. Locke said, "Well I'm not Jack." :up: :up:


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

markz said:


> By the way, there are some great pictures of her on the Internet. They should be relatively safe for work (bathing suits, not nude).


It's a shame, really.

I too am bothered by the two new Losties, but I understand what they're doing. They're trying to fit in their character development so they can be "regular cast members" after these first 6. Entirely speculation on my part, but I would expect flashbacks from them sometime after the break.

The one irritating thing about being a nice guy and not smeeking is everything you think of while watching has already been posted by the time you read the thread, so you're stuck with a "me too". Just an observation.

Oh, and one other thing... bathroom boy's immortal. He sounds like he's from the Clan Macleod.

Greg


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Pair of *what*?


Yes.

I chose my words carefully.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> I liked the episode. I was sad to see Eko get killed off as I liked his character, but I liked that finally things seem to be happening.
> 
> I'm very surprised that nobody's mentioned Locke's speech back on the beach which was basically for our (the critical viewer's) benefit. Hurley was surprised that Locke was asking people to go on the expedition and mentioned that Jack never asked and never told anyone anything. Locke said, "Well I'm not Jack." :up: :up:


Locke has certainly gone on his share of "I'm not telling anyone where I'm going or what I'm doing" adventures.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Lost action figures? Yup.
> http://www.spawn.com/toys/series.aspx?series=318
> 
> The coolest:
> http://spawn.com/news/sdcc06_lost_photo_06_dp.html (Slide show.)


I'll take a Shannon please.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

hapdrastic said:


> At least they're not introducing him for the first time on the episode he dies on then. I hated that they did that with Arntz (sp?), it always bugs me when a show introduces a character on a particular episode just to kill them off or have them be "the villain" (if it's CSI or something) at the end. If they're introducing new-guy for a couple-of-episode arc and then he dies, I'm fine with that.
> 
> Although, to be fair, I think I would have done the same as him re: the bathroom if I were in his situation


Arzt appeared in 3 episodes before he was killed. He first appeared in Born To Run and then the following week he was a featured character in Exodus part 1 and then a week after that he was killed in Exodus part 2.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

gchance said:


> ...Oh, and one other thing... bathroom boy's immortal. He sounds like he's from the Clan Macleod.
> 
> Greg


There can be only one!


----------



## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> Arzt appeared in 3 episodes before he was killed. He first appeared in Born To Run and then the following week he was a featured character in Exodus part 1 and then a week after that he was killed in Exodus part 2.


I guess I don't remember him in Born To Run, and in my own little world 2-parters are just one long episode. Good to know they had some forethought though.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> * The hut Eko was in _burned_.. something caused that fire.. so that rules Yemmi(sp) out as a hallucination.. and if he was the smoke monster, the smoke monster is able to operate a lighter (or form a lighter AND cause fire).


The subliminal message: Smoking kills.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

gchance said:


> Oh, and one other thing... bathroom boy's immortal. He sounds like he's from the Clan Macleod.
> 
> Greg


Just an FYI, bathroom boy and Desmond are two different characters. Desmond is the guy from the hatch who is Scottish and sounds like that. Paolo is the new character who was hitting golf balls in the last episode and was using the bathroom in this episode.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big_Daddy said:


> We don't know that Juliette knew about Ben's cancer at that time. He told Jack he'd found out just a few days before the crash.


Isn't she their only doctor? Seems almost certain she was the one to tell him. (Assuming it's true.)


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

3D said:


> Surprised nobody's mentioned this, but haven't we already learned that the Island cures illnesses such as cancer? Rose anyone? Locke? Unless Ben is immune to the effects of the island having lived there his entire life, it seems to me that even if he did get cancer, he needn't fear it for very long. As the only doctor amongst the others is a fertility doctor, it stands to reason that they haven't had to deal with too much disease, which would support the argument that the Others do benefit from the Island's apparent healing powers.


This is exactly what I thought when Jack first mentioned the tumor. I thought, well the tumor is definitely gone by now if it's someone one the island. This is just another one of those moments that tells me the writers have no idea where they're going with this.

The tailies were tacked on at the very end of season one, after they knew it was a hit and they had to write more seasons. Now they've killed every one of them off. Ecko was not a major character, he was filler. He was my second favorite character after Hurley, but he was still just filler. So when they said they would kill off a major character, they lied.

I have yet to see anything this season that proves to me that they have any idea how this ends. I am certain that the finale will be a letdown. And I really, really loved the first season. If this show were cancelled today, I wouldn't care, and that saddens me.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> My first impression was that it was Ron Perlman, but upon re-watching, I'm not all that sure. Definitely Perlman-esque.


I was thinking it might be jkeegan wearing the patch in the hatch. 

Other comments as I continue reading through the posts ...

Evangeline Lilly is a terrific actress, IMHO. She doesn't have a long resumé, but I have thought from the pilot episode that she really plays terrified and upset especially believably. And I hope they never kill off her character.

As we ponder the good or evil intentions of Juliette, I recalled the first episode of this season where she was hosting a book club and baking/burning muffins. What was up with that? She was upset by the burnt muffins and sitting on the kitchen floor with her head in her hands. Now she is like the second banana -- just one step down from Ben -- and clearly plotting his overthrow.

Jack has issues with authority figures and tends to defy authority and NOT do as he is told. But I expect they will threaten Kate's life as a means to control Jack, and threaten Sawyer to control Kate, and threaten Kate to control Sawyer. Oh, those Others are just kooky control freaks.

Oh well ... I just needed to say those things. Now I'll get back to getting caught up on the threads ...


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

So those of you who think the rift between Juliet and Ben is a ruse -- part of a long con on Jack -- think they started this con *before* the plane crash? Juliet's whole "free will" tirade during the book club meeting made it pretty clear she was tiring of Ben's regime. There have been several more indications of the rift out of sight and earshot of the Losties.

Maybe "Shot to Sunshine" was a euphemism for "Shot by Sun."

I was pretty sure Eko was going to die in this episode, but it sure seems to make "Further Instructions" rather pointless. The whole Boone hallucination telling Locke he needs to save Eko, only so the island/SM can kill him off two days later?

It's nice that the huge electromagnetic anomaly hasn't affected their ability to play and record on VHS tapes.

Finally, is anyone else noticing a pattern?
-- Michael and Waaaaaaaaaaaaalt, come sail away
-- Haven't had a Rose sighting, but have spotted some hibiscus....
-- Where's Mrs. Clue? Haven't a clue....
-- Goodbye, Eko, eko, eko.....


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

MacThor said:


> So those of you who think the rift between Juliet and Ben is a ruse -- part of a long con on Jack -- think they started this con *before* the plane crash? Juliet's whole "free will" tirade during the book club meeting made it pretty clear she was tiring of Ben's regime. There have been several more indications of the rift out of sight and earshot of the Losties.


Excellent point. I might have to reconsider. I'm sure they will let us know next week.


----------



## Ramblnman (Nov 27, 2002)

1. I believe that eye-patch guy is really Number 2 - he had just arrived on the island to install laser beams on the frickin' sharks' heads.

2. I bet Juliet knew there was no chance of helping Colleen, but brought Jack over to 'accidently' see the x-ray.

3. Was anyone watching the closed captioning when Eko was fighting the militia guys in the church? When Eko swung the machete at the main man's head for the final time, the caption read 'Squish'.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

3D said:


> but haven't we already learned that the Island cures illnesses such as cancer? Rose anyone? Locke? Unless Ben is immune to the effects of the island having lived there his entire life, it seems to me that even if he did get cancer, he needn't fear it for very long.


Additional point, we know the island the losties are on cures them, but if we believe what we saw with Sawyer, the Others are on a different island, the "healing effect" may not work there.

The "healing effect" may also have other side effects we don't know about yet, which may explain why the Others are on island #2.

Island 2 may also be devoid of smoke monsters  that could be a big deal if some of the others are "bad" (or certainly in questionable territory..)

Diane


----------



## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

I don't think we know for sure there is a healing effect on the island. There may be scientific explanations for the healing we've seen....


----------



## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

johnperkins21 said:


> The tailies were tacked on at the very end of season one, after they knew it was a hit and they had to write more seasons. Now they've killed every one of them off. Ecko was not a major character, he was filler. He was my second favorite character after Hurley, but he was still just filler. So when they said they would kill off a major character, they lied.


This is just not true!! The plane wreck, heroin, and "priest" were discovered when Locke and Boone first found the plane in season 1. This was long before Eko was introduced. So you're saying that this is a coincidence? I hardly think so.

I don't see how you can say Eko was filler when so much of the story was based around a plane that he was on...almost.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> Just an FYI, bathroom boy and Desmond are two different characters. Desmond is the guy from the hatch who is Scottish and sounds like that. Paolo is the new character who was hitting golf balls in the last episode and was using the bathroom in this episode.


Desmond doesn't sound anything like Connor Macleod. Connor speaks with this strange "not identifiable" accent that they came up with to show he'd been from "lots of different places". He sounds like Ren Hoek. So does newbie lostaway.

Sorry I wasn't specific enough.

Greg


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> I'll take a Shannon please.


She isn't life sized or inflatable


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

MacThor said:


> I was pretty sure Eko was going to die in this episode, but it sure seems to make "Further Instructions" rather pointless. The whole Boone hallucination telling Locke he needs to save Eko, only so the island/SM can kill him off two days later?


It makes perfect sense. He didn't need to save Eko to save Eko's life, he needed to save Eko to save Locke's life... to reclaim his role as hunter and become (at least to himself) the leader he was becoming before the hatch made him lose his way.

Greg


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

aindik said:


> Locke has certainly gone on his share of "I'm not telling anyone where I'm going or what I'm doing" adventures.


I was struck by that too. Despite what Hurley says, Jack is the one who almost always takes someone along, and usually more than one. Locke is the loner, the one constantly making unilateral decisions that affect the whole group. The only reason he ever took Boone along with him to the hatch was because Boone was with him, looking for Clair, when he found it.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

modnar said:


> I don't think we know for sure there is a healing effect on the island. There may be scientific explanations for the healing we've seen....


If the island did have a healing effect, it may now be gone.

It may have been related to the electromagnetic effect in the Swan hatch that's now been shut down.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

MacThor said:


> So those of you who think the rift between Juliet and Ben is a ruse -- part of a long con on Jack -- think they started this con *before* the plane crash? Juliet's whole "free will" tirade during the book club meeting made it pretty clear she was tiring of Ben's regime. There have been several more indications of the rift out of sight and earshot of the Losties.


I don't. I think both could be true. 1) There is truly some discord between them that goes back to before the plane crash and 2) They are currently playing Jack, as they might have done numerous times in the past with any number of outsiders. One thing that is clear is that the Others have dealt with outsiders many times before. There's a big difference between the two of them not seeing eye to eye (pun intended) on everything and her wanting him dead. Thus, I don't think it's fair to say that just because Ben and Julia didn't get along before the plane crash they are incapable of working towards a common goal regarding Jack just because said goal also involves giving the appearance of a rift.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Big difference between having a rift or even a tirade and murdering someone.



MacThor said:


> So those of you who think the rift between Juliet and Ben is a ruse -- part of a long con on Jack -- think they started this con *before* the plane crash? Juliet's whole "free will" tirade during the book club meeting made it pretty clear she was tiring of Ben's regime. There have been several more indications of the rift out of sight and earshot of the Losties.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> If the island did have a healing effect, it may now be gone.
> 
> It may have been related to the electromagnetic effect in the Swan hatch that's now been shut down.


True, but Ben found out about his tumor *before* the plane crash, so he at least had as much time as Rose to heal.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Kiele Sanchez in Maxim this month:









Hi-rez picture here.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

GDG76 said:


> There is no way Jack will botch the surgery on purpose. If so, it is a radical departure from his character. I could see him refusing to do it altogether but even that is unlikely.


If Jack operates on Ben, Ben will die. That's Jack's history. He doesn't need to botch it on purpose. Remember "Body Heat," where Kathleen Turner's character found an incompetent lawyer to handle her husband's will so he would screw up and it would be invalidated? Same deal here. Juliet brought Jack to the island so he could screw up Ben's surgery. The little show she put on with the video was just to motivate him (Mr. Defiant) to try to save Ben, which of course he will try to do, but Ben will die. It would be a nice touch, though, if Juliet would put a clock in the operating room so Jack could get the time of death right.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Sawyer needs a sword


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

dtle said:


> Kiele Sanchez in Maxim this month:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shiny!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> If Jack operates on Ben, Ben will die. That's Jack's history. He doesn't need to botch it on purpose. Remember "Body Heat," where Kathleen Turner's character found an incompetent lawyer to handle her husband's will so he would screw up and it would be invalidated? Same deal here. Juliet brought Jack to the island so he could screw up Ben's surgery. The little show she put on with the video was just to motivate him (Mr. Defiant) to try to save Ben, which of course he will try to do, but Ben will die. It would be a nice touch, though, if Juliet would put a clock in the operating room so Jack could get the time of death right.


Only one of the patients that he operated on in his past has died. What are you talking about?


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Figaro said:


> Shiny!


No leering!


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

The Island has healed Locke and Rose. Maybe it only heals people who deserve to be healed.

There's also Jin, who may or may not deserve it, but we're not sure if he was actually healed or if his wife is carrying someone else's baby.

The island heals people, but it also (according to Rousseau) causes people to get sick.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> No leering!


Me leer? Never!


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## Frank_M (Sep 9, 2001)

I'm not sure why it wasn't obvious to people who the "eyepatch guy" is.

Think about all the clues:

1. They live on a beach.

Hmmm. Ok, that's the only relevant clue.

But still, here he is -

Hasselhoff!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Frank_M said:


> Hasselhoff!


I'm serious, man.

Don't hassel the hoff.

Greg


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Well I do think it would have been difficult to operate the VCR from Jack's side of the glass.


Uhh...what I said was not speculation on my part...it was simply a recap of what happened in the episode, and at that point in the episode (when jack made that statement) he did not yet know Juliet (there hefe...you happy  ) was going to show him a video.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> If the actor shaved for the flashback scenes, it would be difficult for him to go on unshaven...


Aha...now I see what you are saying (although they can do fake beards as part of their makeup).


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

aindik said:


> The Island has healed Locke and Rose. Maybe it only heals people who deserve to be healed.
> 
> There's also Jin, who may or may not deserve it, but we're not sure if he was actually healed or if his wife is carrying someone else's baby.
> 
> The island heals people, but it also (according to Rousseau) causes people to get sick.


I could be remembering this wrong, but wasn't it implied last year that Sawyer healed more quickly from his gunshot wound than normal. Anna, Libby, Boone, Shannon, and Eko could not survive the trauma inflicted upon them, but Sawyer, after being able to hang on in the early stages, had an accelerated recovery. Did that not happen? I really can't remember. If it did, I doubt it had much to do with his being deserving.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Figaro said:


> Only one of the patients that he operated on in his past has died. What are you talking about?


The only patient of Jack's who hasn't died that I can think of is his ex-wife.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

danplaysbass said:


> This is just not true!! The plane wreck, heroin, and "priest" were discovered when Locke and Boone first found the plane in season 1. This was long before Eko was introduced. So you're saying that this is a coincidence? I hardly think so.
> 
> I don't see how you can say Eko was filler when so much of the story was based around a plane that he was on...almost.


I did forget about that. Ok, so maybe I was wrong.  Wouldn't be the first time.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> The only patient of Jack's who hasn't died that I can think of is his ex-wife.


Who died? Sorry the marshal and Boone don't count, they were mortally wounded. Not to mention that Jack was mislead by Locke as to how Boone's wounds occourd.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

MacThor said:


> It's nice that the huge electromagnetic anomaly hasn't affected their ability to play and record on VHS tapes.


Notice the Swan station had film but the other stations have VHS.

I also thought of something. People think that Jack was shown the x-rays on purpose or as part of the plan, but part of the plan wasn't having that girl getting shot. They didn't have time to hide them when they brought him to operate on her.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Figaro said:


> Who died? Sorry the marshal and Boone don't count, they were mortally wounded. Not to mention that Jack was mislead by Locke as to how Boone's wounds occourd.


There was the guy whose daughter kissed Jack in the hospital parking lot.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

aindik said:


> There was the guy whose daughter kissed Jack in the hospital parking lot.


Yeah that is the one guy who died.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Figaro said:


> Who died? Sorry the marshal and Boone don't count, they were mortally wounded. Not to mention that Jack was mislead by Locke as to how Boone's wounds occourd.


I'm counting the people on the island. They were his patients and they died. There was also the guy in the flashback whose daughter kissed Jack after her father died - _after Dr. Jack had operated on him_. Just saying, the guy doesn't have a great track record in terms of saving people.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> I'm counting the people on the island. They were his patients and they died. There was also the guy in the flashback whose daughter kissed Jack after her father died - _after Dr. Jack had operated on him_. Just saying, the guy doesn't have a great track record in terms of saving people.


Charlie, Sawyer, and Ben would probably argue that with you.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

OK, my brother who is lurk-reading this thread thinks that the guy with the patch is Nathan Fillion.

He had up a pic of him and then comparing it to the caps from Lost. His nose, upper lip, and chin appear to be the same.

What do you think?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

rkester said:


> OK, my brother who is lurk-reading this thread thinks that the guy with the patch is Nathan Fillion.
> 
> He had up a pic of him and then comparing it to the caps from Lost. His nose, upper lip, and chin appear to be the same.
> 
> What do you think?


Hard to tell, in black and white a brown coat is not recognizable.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Aha...now I see what you are saying (although they can do fake beards as part of their makeup).


In fact, I think it was EW that had a bit about the flocking technique where they spray stubble onto the actors. The best example I can think of is Hurley, who was clearly clean cut in all his flashbacks.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> Additional point, we know the island the losties are on cures them, but if we believe what we saw with Sawyer, the Others are on a different island, the "healing effect" may not work there.
> 
> The "healing effect" may also have other side effects we don't know about yet, which may explain why the Others are on island #2.
> 
> Island 2 may also be devoid of smoke monsters  that could be a big deal if some of the others are "bad" (or certainly in questionable territory..)


This one photo I uploaded is sure getting a lot of use....









You can clearly see the village where they stayed before the plane crash was on the same island as the Losties. Of course, thats not to say they weren't using island 2 before the plane crash, but I think it's reasonable assumption that most of them spent the majority of their time in the village area.


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## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

NoThru22 said:


> I also thought of something. People think that Jack was shown the x-rays on purpose or as part of the plan, but part of the plan wasn't having that girl getting shot. They didn't have time to hide them when they brought him to operate on her.


I just think that they have certain objectives and are very good at improvising to turn unforseen events to their advantage. Did they know the girl would get shot? Of course not. But it allowed them to naturally put Jack in position to come across the x-rays. Just like with Sawyer. They couldn't have known that he would have come up with his plan to escape by standing in a puddle of water and shocking one of his captors. But when they saw him explain the plan to Kate, they set in motion a scheme to make Sawyer think that he essentially had a timebomb implanted in him. The only thing I know for certain is that the Others are very smart and are very good at thinking on their feet.

For those 100% convinced that Juliet's attempt to persuade Jack was for real, must we presume that the television was placed out of view of any of Ben's surveilance cameras?


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

Its not Fillion because:



Spoiler



Fillion is supposed to be on, I believe next week, in a Kate flashback as...



Double spoiler:



Spoiler



... her fiacee/husband! And from Ask Ausiello, another Lostie will show up at the wedding.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Hmmm... maybe so. But still, this is Lost, Anything can happen!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

speaking of spoilers. Next week we see the continuation of


Spoiler



the guy from the others having a real boner to kill Sawyer. Why is this guy so obsessed with killing him. Sawyer didn't kill his wife. He wan't to kill him over a broken nose? That is a bit much.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

I also believe that the preview for next week is a misdirect. For it to be the huge episode that leads up into a hiatus until March, there has to be another "mysterious" storyline that they are not showing us any of.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

ScottE22 said:


> ...and by "them" I assume you're referring to the pair of new Losties, right?


Yeah, and the guy too


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

hapdrastic said:


> Although, to be fair, I think I would have done the same as him re: the bathroom if I were in his situation


When he came out he should have said, "Don't go in there!".


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

aindik said:


> The Island has healed Locke and Rose. Maybe it only heals people who deserve to be healed.
> 
> There's also Jin, who may or may not deserve it, but we're not sure if he was actually healed or if his wife is carrying someone else's baby.
> 
> The island heals people, but it also (according to Rousseau) causes people to get sick.


It also sped up the healing process re: Sawyer's gunshot wound.


3D said:


> I could be remembering this wrong, but wasn't it implied last year that Sawyer healed more quickly from his gunshot wound than normal. Anna, Libby, Boone, Shannon, and Eko could not survive the trauma inflicted upon them, but Sawyer, after being able to hang on in the early stages, had an accelerated recovery. Did that not happen? I really can't remember. If it did, I doubt it had much to do with his being deserving.


Oops! I smeeked -- but just a leetle beet.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

As far as knowing who was going to get killed off...first I'd like to thank my mom. When It comes to LOST I try to not spoil myself. So she asked me this morning if I had seen it yet, I told her no. She immediately replies, "Oh, so you don't know who got killed off."

Thanks Mom.

So with that piece of knowledge, I immediately figured out who was being killed off and almost didn't want to watch the show. For anyone that hasn't figured it out yet, if you know someone is gonna get killed in an episode you know it will be the person featured in flashbacks. I can't rememeber if it was that way with Boone, but Shannon and Ana Lucia for sure.

In regards to Ben and Juliet, I can't tell for sure if she really wants him dead but it does seem quite clear that they weren't getting along...even before the crash.

That picture of the island...I think it could very easily be two different island. And as for why the island can't heal Ben. Maybe, assuming Ben has been on the island his whole life as he claims, he's immune to it. Or, what if the island can only heal one thing. What if he was brought to the island as a child to cure something else and now the island can't cure this tumor.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

NatasNJ said:


> Episode blew. Went nowhere. Solved so little. I liked the Juliet/Ben twist but otherwise it is BORING. I am just starting to not care. They better get off their high horse and get back to the basics if they want to stop hemoraging viewers.


What pissed me off most is that they re-ran some of the tedious back story with Eko... As if watching it once wasn't boring enough. Did they really need 30 minutes of setup to kill him? "Here you go, idiot viewers, invest more time into watching about this guy... oh oops, f--k you, he's dead." So in this episode they killed a character that evidently didn't mean much of anything to the overall story, yet they still had to add more mystery about Juliet/Ben. Plus now we also have the eyepatch guy and the deadly "Prey" swarm back again. Next week had better be really good because my patience with endless new mysteries of the week that have no resolution has just about reached its limit.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> That picture of the island...I think it could very easily be two different island.


Uhhh.....no, I don't think so. By the very definition of island, "two islands" would imply there was no land route from one island to the other island. Using this modified photo, please point out the break in land along the path of the red line (and river's don't count).









It's clear the village and the tailies are on the same island, and we know the tailies and the main losties (what was the term we had for them?) were on the same island.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Well, I see a pretty high mountanious peak there that would seem to fit with what they showed Sawyer...that there are two islands side by side seperated by a small amount of ocean.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

IT is also one heck of a lot bigger than 2x Alcatrax.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Mike Farrington said:


> But is Bernard a true tailie? He was seated with Rose, but got up to use the bathroom.


tailie refers to how they crashed.


jkeegan said:


> Eh, just went back and saw at the end of the credits:
> 
> Filmed entirely on location on Oahu, Hawaii
> 
> Didn't spend much/any time on Oahu.. (one week on Kauai, one on the big island, and one on Maui). I'll bet Oahu's even more popular now because of the show..


More popular?? nah. it's the same. people don't go to oahu cuz of lost. alot of people, like yourself, don't realize lost is even filmed there. Besides, at least 50% of hawaiian tourism is from japan (specifically oahu), and who knows if they even air the show there, much less make a cult show out of it. and it's so out of the way where they are filming...
there is a ranch on oahu where alot of filming is done for movies and TV, and i think it's where they film Lost. Kualoa Ranch. it's a recreational site where you can ride atv's and hike. They did Jurassic Park there. There is a golf course on that part of the island where it's in the middle of jurassic park, so beautiful. Ko'olau.
http://www.hawaiiweb.com/html/kualoa_ranch.html


Vito the Tivo said:


> Every other death on the island, the people simply died. Dead. Boone, Shannon, AL, Libby. They all just died.


One could argue that boone and shannon were killed cuz the island caused it. Boone was drawn to the plane and it fell, shannon was drawn to the analucia group by walt and the whispers. 


Fish Man said:


> If the island did have a healing effect, it may now be gone.
> 
> It may have been related to the electromagnetic effect in the Swan hatch that's now been shut down.


Well, there is evidence that the healing isn't permanent. Locke has had transient relapse of his paralysis, and it has been argued the island is controlling that. So if the healing effects are gone, then Locke should be paralyzed again.

this "open link in new window" trick is pretty nifty.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:



> Well, I see a pretty high mountanious peak there that would seem to fit with what they showed Sawyer...that there are two islands side by side seperated by a small amount of ocean.


A) *IF* that mountain was a separate island, it's irrelevant to my post, because I was saying that the photo clearly shows the village was on the main island.

B) I don't believe even that one mountain is separate either. To be as visible as it is from that far across the island and as huge as any of those mountains are, it would have to be both very tall, and a lot bigger than twice the size of alcatraz (neither of which I believe is true of the second island, based both on what Ben said and on what we saw in the episode).

C) Based on where the main losties landed, it would appear likely (though not certain) that they would be able to see the second island, either from the beach or not far from their camp.

If I had to guess, I'd say the second island is directly behind the camera in that photo.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

When we saw the eye-patch guy, he almost looked a bit like a shaved toilet-guy. But that could be because I don't know or care about that face enough to recognize it well yet.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> We know that there is tension between Juliet and Ben. We know that Juliet resents his overbearing rule.





NatasNJ said:


> WE know? Ummm. Not really. There power struggle can and PROBABLY is just part of their con on Jack.


I'd say we know that just from the book club scene and what came after it, and enough other scenes where Jack isn't even present.. It seems pretty well established that _something_ is going on between the two, whether it be a power struggle, some relationship, or something else - and whatever it is isn't just show for Jack.

(I've read the entire friggin post.. couldn't go home because of it. Other have said something similar - their opinions are relevant, and I appreciated them. I am not more important, nor are my thoughts, but I posted my similar thoughts here as well.. after 45 minutes of catching up)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?


Absolutely, I thought that very thing when I heard in this thread that Eko's actor had had a traffic incident too (albeit jokingly). I wonder if there's any legal problem with having a police department "play along" if no one complains..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

getreal said:


> I was thinking it might be jkeegan wearing the patch in the hatch.


Arrrrrrrrrr, matey!

My wife's birthday (Sept 19th) is Talk Like a Pirate day.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I wasn't saying the mountain was a seperate island. I was saying that the hight of the mountains obstructs our view so we can't see if the ocean stops and curves around "both" islands (making them one island) or if there is channel seperating the two bodies of land making them two seperate islands. In other words, you can't tell from thepicture either way because there's a mountain blocking the view.

BUT from the looks of that picture we could probably assume that the high peak in the picture is the same one they took Sawyer on a hike to. And from there he saw a channel of water seperating the two bodies of land making them two seperate islands.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> I wasn't saying the mountain was a seperate island. I was saying that the hight of the mountains obstructs our view so we can't see if the ocean stops and curves around "both" islands (making them one island) or if there is channel seperating the two bodies of land making them two seperate islands. In other words, you can't tell from thepicture either way because there's a mountain blocking the view.
> 
> BUT from the looks of that picture we could probably assume that the high peak in the picture is the same one they took Sawyer on a hike to. And from there he saw a channel of water seperating the two bodies of land making them two seperate islands.


If that is the case, how did Ethan "run" to the crash site as Benry suggested? Wouldn't he have had to swim? And he was dry when the worst actress ever saw him. Nope. One island in that photo.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> BUT from the looks of that picture we could probably assume that the high peak in the picture is the same one they took Sawyer on a hike to. And from there he saw a channel of water seperating the two bodies of land making them two seperate islands.


Maybe you could, but I doubt you'd be right. Every mountain you see in that photo is quite large. Go back and watch the end of episode 4 (if you haven't deleted it).

a) Sawyer doesn't seem to be standing that high above the water. Maybe 300-400 feet at best.

b) from where sawyer was standing at the end of that episode, it was pretty clear that he was *well* below the elevation of the mountains he was staring at across the water. If the second island were behind the mountains shown in my picture, it certainly wouldn't be visible in that picture.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

So are we supposed to believe Ben would go to all this trouble to get a surgeon who he may not even be able to trust, when he has a submarine and a sailboat and seems to be in communication with the real world? Why not just make a quick trip to the nearest populated island and fly from there to Austrailia, have the surgery, and come home? Plus he will really have trouble convincing Jack he can take him back to Boston, if he won't or can't leave the island to save his own life.

This "pirate" whose glass eye may have been in the arrow hatch--did he come from the Black Rock? Wasn't it supposed to be a pirate ship 500 years ago or something? So are we getting into questions of time travel again? The Others seem to be living in the '60's and this guy is still hundreds of years before that? OK, he's looking into a TV camera, so maybe not.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> So are we supposed to believe Ben would go to all this trouble to get a surgeon who he may not even be able to trust, when he has a submarine and a sailboat and seems to be in communication with the real world? Why not just make a quick trip to the nearest populated island and fly from there to Austrailia, have the surgery, and come home? Plus he will really have trouble convincing Jack he can take him back to Boston, if he won't or can't leave the island to save his own life.


That is bothering me, too. If Ben has communication/access to the outside world like they have claimed (they even claim to have sent Michael and Walt on a path to rescue), why not have the surgery done in "civilization"?


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

Figaro said:


> Shiny!


MMMMMMMMM a nice new shiny set.


----------



## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

AstroDad said:


> Eko's ticket (can't remeber or spell the actor's name) was a minor violation that was dropped. Not a DUI, like the other two. Also, the actors who play Sawyer, Charlie, and I think one other have gotten speeding tickets and haven't been killed off.


Oh no... they are going to die?!! please spoilerize!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Didn't Sawyer die briefly, and then Jack brought him back?


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Figaro said:


> speaking of spoilers. Next week we see the continuation of
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Spoilerizing response ...


Spoiler



This was one of my MAJOR problems with the previous episode. If you'll pardon, the attack on Sawyer was heavy-handed, made no sense, and the whole "Do you love him" bit sent me way off to eye-rolling land.

Sawyer doesn't need to be beat up to be antagonistic. I will not look forward to have this theme revisited!


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> The Others have pagan funerals, apparently. Cheesy neo-pagan funerals. Their funeral rites don't support the theory that they are descended from the four-toed statue culture--unless they were converted by Dharma hippies.


??? How do we know the four-toed statue culture doesn't have pagan viking funerals?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

3D said:


> I don't. I think both could be true. 1) There is truly some discord between them that goes back to before the plane crash and 2) They are currently playing Jack, as they might have done numerous times in the past with any number of outsiders. One thing that is clear is that the Others have dealt with outsiders many times before. There's a big difference between the two of them not seeing eye to eye (pun intended) on everything and her wanting him dead. Thus, I don't think it's fair to say that just because Ben and Julia didn't get along before the plane crash they are incapable of working towards a common goal regarding Jack just because said goal also involves giving the appearance of a rift.


I agree completely (and with your subsequent similar post).

Just because Juliet and Benry are conspiring together doesn't mean EVERYTHING they do has to be part of the consipiracy. They could (probably do) genuinely dislike each other; they could be having a power struggle of some kind; they obviously are simply taking advantage of situations that appear: they're not concocting some elaborate plot as they cackle together every night over hot toddies.

Getting from a power struggle and some kind of relationship issue to Juliet trying to convince Jack to off Benry on the operating table is a _big_ leap for me. I feel it's more likely they're working together on this.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Someone else has healed quickly from injury on the island. And it's none other than Ben himself! He had an arrow shot clean through him, but he seemed to do pretty well, pretty quickly. And shows no issues from it at all. (not to mention getting the c-r-a-p kicked out him by Sayid)

So ironically, Jack has already done surgery on him. A bit minor compared to spinal surgery, but hey. Most things are.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

madscientist said:


> ??? How do we know the four-toed statue culture doesn't have pagan viking funerals?


C'mon, everyone knows that pagan viking rituals use *6*-toed statues and figurines. It was on the Discovery Channel just this morning.   

Actually, a very good question. But I think the viking stuff comes the Hanso Danish side of the house, and not whoever built the statue(s) once upon a time ago. Hanso doesn't strike me a statue builder.


----------



## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

Since they were yanked out of the sky by a big magnetic pulse caused by the scottish bloke (I think I have that right) couldn't the healing be caused by the magnetism's effect on their bodies? Hmmm. Maybe those magnetic belts and rings and stuff work after all!

Since Eko was a thug and a thief back home, shouldn't this episode's title be "Smokey and the Bandit"? And could that be a clue that eyepatch man is Burt Reynolds?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Delta13 said:


> C'mon, everyone knows that pagan viking rituals use *6*-toed statues and figurines. It was on the Discovery Channel just this morning.
> 
> Actually, a very good question. But I think the viking stuff comes the Hanso Danish side of the house, and not whoever built the statue(s) once upon a time ago. Hanso doesn't strike me a statue builder.


I thought the funeral was more along Indian themes (setting the body on fire in a boat floating -- except it was an ocean and the Ganges river. Too bad the didn't throw Dennis on there in the sati tradition 

An Indian theme goes well with Dharma and the whole "Namaste" thing.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Regarding "Benry" ... I really wish everyone would stop using that name to refer to "present-day" Ben. If you want to use "Benry" to refer to the time when Ben assumed the identity of Hernry Gale and was captured by the Losties, that's fine. 

However, Benry has left the hatch and Ben is here. Get used to it!


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> Regarding "Benry" ... I really wish everyone would stop using that name to refer to "present-day" Ben. If you want to use "Benry" to refer to the time when Ben assumed the identity of Hernry Gale and was captured by the Losties, that's fine.
> 
> However, Benry has left the hatch and Ben is here. Get used to it!


Well said, Drew2006.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Too bad. I like Benry. Benry, Benry, Benry, Benry! Get used to _that_!
Neener neener!


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> Well said, Drew2006.


 :up:


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> Well said, Drew2006.


Oh, is that like a ... promotion or something?!


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

madscientist said:


> ??? How do we know the four-toed statue culture doesn't have pagan viking funerals?


I guess we don't, but, it would be very unlikely that an ancient polynesian culture would have a specific european element. ***

It was an assumption I had that the four-toed statue culture would be polynesian in origin. Although the funeral boat looked like a polynesian craft, the tunics they wore looked Indian to me.

My first thought was that they were imitating a viking funeral and it was that "viking" western element, mixed with the Dharmic (as in Indian) elements, that gave me the impression that it was some neopagan hodgepodge religion. But, someone above said that Indians also do this. So, now I think it was almost wholly Dharmic.

Anyway, I don't think that this really much to the debate (was there a debate?) on wether they are remnants of the Dharma Initiative or descendants of the island culture that have taken over the Dharma Initiative since there is other stronger evidence that are of recent American origin: they speak American English, their village imitates an American town, they have western physical characteristics... You know, the obvious stuff.

What it may show, though, is that they have not abandoned their own culture for another one. The Dharma Initiative may be dead, but I don't think they've been corrupted by the island. If they had been, I think we would have seen a different sort of funeral.

This is all just an impression really, and not very well thought out I'm afraid...

------------------------------------------

***  The Waponi prove that this is not impossible.


----------



## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

johnperkins21 said:


> > Originally Posted by 3D
> > Surprised nobody's mentioned this, but haven't we already learned that the Island cures illnesses such as cancer? Rose anyone? Locke? Unless Ben is immune to the effects of the island having lived there his entire life, it seems to me that even if he did get cancer, he needn't fear it for very long. As the only doctor amongst the others is a fertility doctor, it stands to reason that they haven't had to deal with too much disease, which would support the argument that the Others do benefit from the Island's apparent healing powers.
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I thought when Jack first mentioned the tumor. I thought, well the tumor is definitely gone by now if it's someone one the island. This is just another one of those moments that tells me the writers have no idea where they're going with this.





aindik said:


> The Island has healed Locke and Rose. Maybe it only heals people who deserve to be healed.
> 
> There's also Jin, who may or may not deserve it, but we're not sure if he was actually healed or if his wife is carrying someone else's baby.
> 
> The island heals people, but it also (according to Rousseau) causes people to get sick.


Kind of along the lines of what aindik said - UNLESS the island only cures GOOD people. Rose and Locke could be good guys, while Ben is bad, and thus not getting healed??


----------



## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> (I've read the entire friggin post.. couldn't go home because of it. Other have said something similar - their opinions are relevant, and I appreciated them. I am not more important, nor are my thoughts, but I posted my similar thoughts here as well.. after 45 minutes of catching up)


  
just use that as your sig from now


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Eyepatch:
> http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=486


OMG, it's Commandant Edwin Spangler!


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

modnar said:


> That is bothering me, too. If Ben has communication/access to the outside world like they have claimed (they even claim to have sent Michael and Walt on a path to rescue), why not have the surgery done in "civilization"?


Maybe DHARMA doesn't have the best insurance policy so he can't afford it...next best thing, kidnap a spinal surgeon that just so happened to fall in your lap and get him on your side and make him want to do the surgery out of the kindness of his heart. Then later there won't be a big hospital bill to pay 

Can I list my own pet peeve now? It's DHARMA not Dharma.



Spoiler



I'll spoilerize it since this came from the lost experience over the summer: DEPARTMENT of HEURISTICS AND RESEARCH on MATERIAL APPLICATIONS.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> Someone else has healed quickly from injury on the island. And it's none other than Ben himself! He had an arrow shot clean through him, but he seemed to do pretty well, pretty quickly. And shows no issues from it at all. (not to mention getting the c-r-a-p kicked out him by Sayid)


I dunno, arrow wounds heal pretty quickly. Just ask Oliver Queen.

Greg


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> Can I list my own pet peeve now? It's DHARMA not Dharma.


Oh. One of THOSE people. Just don't tell people it's the PERL hatch.

Greg


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> Can I list my own pet peeve now? It's DHARMA not Dharma.


Actually, that would make it D.H.A.R.M.A.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

What would Jenna Elfman have to say about all this?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Actually, that would make it D.H.A.R.M.A.


I've seen it both ways, but it is an acronym so it still wouldn't be Dharma.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Martin Tupper said:


> OMG, it's Commandant Edwin Spangler!


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4540698&#post4540698


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Eyepatch:
> http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=486


He reminds me of Everett McGill.

The eyepatch fits so well with his part in Silver Bullet.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> I've seen it both ways, but it is an acronym so it still wouldn't be Dharma.


I'm just sayin', an acronym wouldn't be either Dharma or DHARMA. So if you're going to be wrong, what does it matter which way you're wrong? You can be wrong the way everybody else is, or you can be wrong your own way!

(OK, I'm being pedantic. But hey, as SparkleMotion can attest--I have a Ph.D.! I've got to use it for SOMETHING! Or should I say, S.O.M.E.T.H.I.N.G.?)


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> I'm just sayin', an acronym wouldn't be either Dharma or DHARMA.


not true. it's common usage to omit periods in acronyms.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Well, you could be wrong the Hollywood way. We have CSI: Miami and such...not C.S.I.: Miami.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

johnperkins21 said:


> And he was dry when the worst actress ever saw him.


Now, how in the world would you know when Kathy Griffin or Roseanne Barr or Jessica Simpson saw the Ethan character (Tom Cruise's actor cousin Mr. Mapother)?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm just sayin', an acronym wouldn't be either Dharma or DHARMA. So if you're going to be wrong, what does it matter which way you're wrong? You can be wrong the way everybody else is, or you can be wrong your own way!
> 
> (OK, I'm being pedantic. But hey, as SparkleMotion can attest--I have a Ph.D.! I've got to use it for SOMETHING! Or should I say, S.O.M.E.T.H.I.N.G.?)


How about SCUBA? Have you ever seen it written S.C.U.B.A.?


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Figaro said:


> What would Jenna Elfman have to say about all this?


"No, YOU shut up!"


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> How about SCUBA? Have you ever seen it written S.C.U.B.A.?


NATO and NASA are two others that don't use periods.


----------



## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

markz said:


> NATO and NASA are two others that don't use periods.


And NASCAR, NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, etc., etc., ad nauseum.


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

markz said:


> NATO and NASA are two others that don't use periods.


And the BBC spells those as "Nato" and "Nasa", IIRC.


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> Martin Tupper said:
> 
> 
> > OMG, it's Commandant Edwin Spangler!
> ...


Does it still count as a smeek if the OP doesn't name the character, the actor, or even the correct rank?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Martin Tupper said:


> Does it still count as a smeek if the OP doesn't name the character, the actor, or even the correct rank?


Good point. You are forgiven.


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

BrettStah said:


> And the BBC spells those as "Nato" and "Nasa", IIRC.


Shouldn't that be the "Bbc"?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm just sayin', an acronym wouldn't be either Dharma or DHARMA. So if you're going to be wrong, what does it matter which way you're wrong? You can be wrong the way everybody else is, or you can be wrong your own way!
> 
> (OK, I'm being pedantic. But hey, as SparkleMotion can attest--I have a Ph.D.! I've got to use it for SOMETHING! Or should I say, S.O.M.E.T.H.I.N.G.?)


Isn't English wonderful? It's evolving constantly, unlike that pesky Latin that never changes.

An acronym is defined as pronouncable, but in today's usage, other terms are considered "acronyms" as well. To be truly technical, CSI is not an acronym, just an abbreviation (it's "cee ess eye"), while SCUBA *is*.

Oh yeah, who writes SCUBA anymore? Everyone writes Scuba. So there.



Spoiler



(S)elf (C)ontained (U)nderwater (B)reathing (A)pparatus



Greg


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

gchance said:


> Oh. One of THOSE people. Just don't tell people it's the PERL hatch.


OK! OK! I get it...I screwed up. How many weeks ago was that, and I'm still being dragged through the mud for it?


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

IBM.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Lee L said:


> IBM.


Irritable Bowel Movement?


----------



## catcard (Mar 2, 2001)

johnperkins21 said:


> If that is the case, how did Ethan "run" to the crash site as Benry suggested? Wouldn't he have had to swim? And he was dry when the worst actress ever saw him. Nope. One island in that photo.


I believe from last week's episode there was mention of a submarine so the Others (Ethan and the other guy) could have taken the sub over to the other island when the plane crashed. I am not convinced that it is one island in that photo.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

catcard said:


> I believe from last week's episode there was mention of a submarine so the Others (Ethan and the other guy) could have taken the sub over to the other island when the plane crashed. I am not convinced that it is one island in that photo.


Ben told Sawyer they were on a prison island. It's possible the others "village" is on the main island.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Figaro said:


> Irritable Bowel Movement?


We have now reached the weekly IDOL: Inevitable Derailment Of Lost-thread.

[Yeah, Lost-thread should be two words. It was the best I could come up with quickly. I have a job to get back to; cut me some slack.]


----------



## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> (I've read the entire friggin post.. couldn't go home because of it. Other have said something similar - their opinions are relevant, and I appreciated them. I am not more important, nor are my thoughts, but I posted my similar thoughts here as well.. after 45 minutes of catching up)


seventy five syllables
they explain it all


----------



## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

LordKronos said:


> gchance said:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by gchance
> ...


That's ok as long as you tell people in which hatch the interpreter is located.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Martin Tupper said:


> Shouldn't that be the "Bbc"?


Or B.B.C.?


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

catcard said:


> I believe from last week's episode there was mention of a submarine so the Others (Ethan and the other guy) could have taken the sub over to the other island when the plane crashed. I am not convinced that it is one island in that photo.


They better have 2 subs then, because they ran in different directions.

Also didn't Ben say to one of them "If you run, you can be there in an hour" or something? If he runs on water I'd like to see it.

Z


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

lew said:


> It's possible the others "village" is on the main island.


Possible???  POSSIBLE?????  AARRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I suppose it's also possible that Jack breathes to survive.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Possible???  POSSIBLE?????  AARRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I suppose it's also possible that Jack breathes to survive.


Oh great! Now I know that Jack breathes! Spoiler tags please!!!!


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Figaro said:


> Oh great! Now I know that Jack breathes! Spoiler tags please!!!!


Does he use S.c.U.b.A. gear?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

markz said:


> Does he use S.c.U.b.A. gear?


No, but maybe he used the scuba.


----------



## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

I think this forum now has more mysteries than the show!


----------



## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Eyepatch:
> http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=486


I'm surprised that Col. Tigh noticed the camera, what will all that drinking......

"Toaster lovers!!"


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

getreal said:


> Now, how in the world would you know when Kathy Griffin or Roseanne Barr or Jessica Simpson saw the Ethan character (Tom Cruise's actor cousin Mr. Mapother)?


It was Goodwin they were discussing, not Ethan.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I've been thinking about this for a few days, and I must say, I don't really see a huge resemblence between Juliet and Jack's wife. They are both blonde and pretty. Is that the full gist of the resemblence?

They should have tripped us up big time and had the same actress who played Jack's wife play Juliet. Or Dennis Haysbert.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> It was Goodwin they were discussing, not Ethan.





johnperkins21 said:


> If that is the case, how did Ethan "run" to the crash site as Benry suggested? Wouldn't he have had to swim? And he was dry when the worst actress ever saw him. Nope. One island in that photo.





getreal said:


> Now, how in the world would you know when Kathy Griffin or Roseanne Barr or Jessica Simpson saw the Ethan character (Tom Cruise's actor cousin Mr. Mapother)?


Nope. You stand corrected.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> I've been thinking about this for a few days, and I must say, I don't really see a huge resemblence between Juliet and Jack's wife. They are both blonde and pretty. Is that the full gist of the resemblence?
> 
> They should have tripped us up big time and had the same actress who played Jack's wife play Juliet. Or Dennis Haysbert.


When I first saw Juliet I thought she was Desmond's girl.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I've been thinking about this for a few days, and I must say, I don't really see a huge resemblence between Juliet and Jack's wife. They are both blonde and pretty. Is that the full gist of the resemblence?


I don't really get what Ben was after by saying that. They don't look that much alike and it's not like Ben chose Juliet out of thousands of "other" women because she looked the most like Jack's ex. Juliet is much more attractive than Jack's ex - maybe that's how Ben should have said it.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> I don't really get what Ben was after by saying that. They don't look that much alike and it's not like Ben chose Juliet out of thousands of "other" women because she looked the most like Jack's ex. Juliet is much more attractive than Jack's ex - maybe that's how Ben should have said it.


I thought the implication was, Jack would be unnerved or somehow attached to her more because she looks "so much" like Jack's ex that it would help break him. I kept thinking of the Vladimir Nabokov book where a guy is convinced someone looks just like him and plots a murder with his "twin" as the scapegoat, then it turns out they look nothing alike.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

When Juliet came in with her "movie" what was she going to do if Jack said,"Great, I love To Kill a Mockingbird." She didn't have the audio of the movie over her flashcards did she? Imagine what Ben would do if he caught her--assuming the whole thing is on the level.

When the fog said, " you talk to me like I was your brother" or whatever, it seemed to not understand why he was doing that. Like it had not purposely taken that shape, but maybe Echo projected his brother on it himself. Does each person see whatever is in their mind in the fog?


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

gchance said:


> IOh yeah, who writes SCUBA anymore? Everyone writes Scuba. So there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh _MAN_! I can't believe you posted that, spoiler tags or not! Dang this whole thing is ruined for me now. Argh!!


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

> When the fog said, " you talk to me like I was your brother" or whatever, it seemed to not understand why he was doing that. Like it had not purposely taken that shape, but maybe Echo projected his brother on it himself. Does each person see whatever is in their mind in the fog?


Thats one possibility. Another is that the smoke monster assumed Eko realized what it was. After all, he had repeatedly encountered the smoke monster earlier in the day. At one point, the monster was following him, and then right after that he had the vision of the young alter boy telling him to confess.

Now the smoke monster's like "oh, wow.....I thought you knew.....this.....this is awkward"


----------



## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

tivoboyjr said:


> I don't really get what Ben was after by saying that. They don't look that much alike and it's not like Ben chose Juliet out of thousands of "other" women because she looked the most like Jack's ex. Juliet is much more attractive than Jack's ex - maybe that's how Ben should have said it.


There have been a bunch of posts where people thought the two characters looked alike, but whether they look alike or not, I don't think that was the important point of this scene. It was that Ben *knows* who Jack's wife is. How could he know unless they were studying the lostaways for some time? Perhaps even before they came to the island.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> There have been a bunch of posts where people thought the two characters looked alike, but whether they look alike or not, I don't think that was the important point of this scene. It was that Ben *knows* who Jack's wife is. How could he know unless they were studying the lostaways for some time? Perhaps even before they came to the island.


That wasn't exactly news, though. Juliet not only knows who Jack's ex-wife is, she knows that his ex is "happy."


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

ElJay said:


> What pissed me off most is that they re-ran some of the tedious back story with Eko... As if watching it once wasn't boring enough.


It was an entire 50 seconds or recap.



> Did they really need 30 minutes of setup to kill him? "Here you go, idiot viewers, invest more time into watching about this guy... oh oops, f--k you, he's dead." So in this episode they killed a character that evidently didn't mean much of anything to the overall story. Next week had better be really good because my patience with endless new mysteries of the week that have no resolution has just about reached its limit.


OK, we needed all this for a few reasons. If they are going to kill off Eko, they need to wrap up the loose end of why did he start building the church. Yeah, we know...for his brother, but I always thought that was just "I got him killed...this is how I can honor his memory".

Second, Eko's whole purpose in dying was to give us a better understanding of the smoke monster. We now have some idea of what it's up to. The problem is, if they didn't give us some more backstory, and Eko had said "I'm not sorry" I'd have been thinking "what a prick...sure he saved his brother from having to kill, but other than that, he led of life of crime, used his brother and made a mockery of his religion, got his brother killed over drugs, and he's not sorry for any of it....yes he deserves to die, and I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL" 

But now we see more of what happened. Eko realized they could really use a lot more than the 20% of the vaccine they were permitted to keep. Now this is open to interpretation, but I interpreted it as he went and made it known he was going to sell the vaccine to draw that gang to come to him so he could fix the problem.

We also had the clip of the young Eko stealing food for his brother, showing that his belief of "I won't be sorry for trying to help someone else" goes way back.

So now we understand not just that you need to be sorry for your sins, but that you need to be pure enough of heart that you even feel bad for wronging those who wronged you first. Kind of a "mark of a true saint" thing.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> * Smoke monster or not, why is Yemmi's body gone?


Haven't seen anyone address this. Can't say I can figure it out either. The only thing I could think is that it was never his body to begin with, and it was the smoke monster all along. But then what about the other drug dealer "priest" and the plane with all the drugs too....were those all made up by the smoke monster/island too? If not, it doesn't make sense....where the Yemmi's real body? If so, now we are really looking at "does anything on the island even exist" and were kind of back to a purgatory-like theme. I'm not happy with either of those, because one way feels like a giant plot hole, and the other way feels like a cop out and is not where I hope the series is going (it's all a magical afterlife where nothing needs to make sense).

So where are the bones? It doesn't look like the fire burned hot enough to incinerate them. Eko and Locke had to remove the rocks before they could even get into the plane, so I don't buy the "some animal got in there and took the bones" idea.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> That wasn't exactly news, though. Juliet not only knows who Jack's ex-wife is, she knows that his ex is "happy."


Yeah, but anybody could have just made that up. Knowing what she looks like, assuming there were no pictures of her on the plane that the others found means that they actually do have some info on his ex-wife.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Haven't seen anyone address this. Can't say I can figure it out either. The only thing I could think is that it was never his body to begin with, and it was the smoke monster all along. But then what about the other drug dealer "priest" and the plane with all the drugs too....were those all made up by the smoke monster/island too? If not, it doesn't make sense....where the Yemmi's real body? If so, now we are really looking at "does anything on the island even exist" and were kind of back to a purgatory-like theme. I'm not happy with either of those, because one way feels like a giant plot hole, and the other way feels like a cop out and is not where I hope the series is going (it's all a magical afterlife where nothing needs to make sense).
> 
> So where are the bones? It doesn't look like the fire burned hot enough to incinerate them. Eko and Locke had to remove the rocks before they could even get into the plane, so I don't buy the "some animal got in there and took the bones" idea.


Other people saw Yemmi's body. It was "real." The cross the found around his neck was "real" too. Locke found it in the jungle.

Where is it? Who knows. Eko did set the plane on fire last time we saw it.


----------



## PotentiallyCoherent (Jul 25, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> Or might they be working together after all? Good cop, bad cop.
> 
> Oh, and I liked that Ben said "Didn't you notice how much Juliet looks like your ex-wife?" I couldnt' help saying, "A lot of other people noticed."


Didn't you also think, wow, what a coincidence that a long time resident of the island looks like Jacks wife and can be used in this plot?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

BarryBarlow said:


> Didn't you also think, wow, what a coincidence that a long time resident of the island looks like Jacks wife and can be used in this plot?


Don't mistake coincidence for fate.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

getreal said:


> Originally Posted by johnperkins21
> If that is the case, how did Ethan "run" to the crash site as Benry suggested? Wouldn't he have had to swim? And he was dry when the worst actress ever saw him. Nope. One island in that photo.
> 
> Originally Posted by getreal
> ...


Nope, I still don't stand corrected. Just because johnp mistakenly said Ethan in the first post, he mentioned the worst actress in the world noticing he was dry. That is Ana-Lucia that noticed Goodwin was dry in the Other 48 Days. Bow down!


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

gchance said:


> I dunno, arrow wounds heal pretty quickly. Just ask Oliver Queen.
> 
> Greg


Hey now, don't be bringing the Hero into the Lost thread!!! 



> I don't really get what Ben was after by saying that. They don't look that much alike and it's not like Ben chose Juliet out of thousands of "other" women because she looked the most like Jack's ex. Juliet is much more attractive than Jack's ex - maybe that's how Ben should have said it.


How about Ben is just a little jealous? No one's hit on that reason yet.



aindik said:


> Other people saw Yemmi's body. It was "real." The cross the found around his neck was "real" too. Locke found it in the jungle.
> 
> Where is it? Who knows. Eko did set the plane on fire last time we saw it.


Makes you wonder what happened to the body of Jack's father now, doesn't it?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

BarryBarlow said:


> Didn't you also think, wow, what a coincidence that a long time resident of the island looks like Jacks wife and can be used in this plot?


No, because other than being blonde and pretty, they look nothing alike. Holy cow, isn't anyone else thinking, wow, ben and desmond look alike?!


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> No, because other than being blonde and pretty, they look nothing alike.



















Maybe I'm unusual, but I can see some things in common between them (jawlines/cheeks are similar, for example).


> Holy cow, isn't anyone else thinking, wow, ben and desmond look alike?!


I think Julie Bowen and Elizabeth Mitchell look a lot more alike than do the actors who play Ben and Desmond.


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## MamaKAS (Jul 28, 2004)

DCIFRTHS said:


> I didn't know that he wanted out of the show. Do you know why he wanted out? Knowing that makes me feel better because I think killing him was a mistake, but at least it let's the writers/producers off the hook- kind of...
> 
> As for the way the did it, I thought it was really well done.


Didn't see this alluded to yet as to why he wanted off:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2006-11-01-eko-lost_x.htm

As for the guy with the patch, he looks exactly like Michael Ironside:


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> Maybe I'm unusual, but I can see some things in common between them (jawlines/cheeks are similar, for example).
> 
> I think Julie Bowen and Elizabeth Mitchell look a lot more alike than do the actors who play Ben and Desmond.


While I do see that resemblance, on the first episode of this season, I saw a much stronger resemblance between Elizabeth Mithcell and Sonya Walger Who played "Penny", wealthy heiress and Desmond's former girlfriend, who we learn in the Season 2 finale is using sophisticated magnetic anomaly detection technology to locate him.

In fact, briefly during the first episode, I thought it *WAS* Penny!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

MamaKAS said:


> As for the guy with the patch, he looks exactly like Michael Ironside:


Good call - I think we have a winner!

(My brother thinks EyePatch is Kevin Tighe, who played Locke's father, but that's a major stretch, even for THIS mysterious island...)


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> In fact, briefly during the first episode, I thought it *WAS* Penny!


I'm glad I'm not alone in this. The minute or two of the opening, I wondered if we were seeing Penny.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> While I do see that resemblance, on the first episode of this season, I saw a much stronger resemblance between Elizabeth Mithcell and Sonya Walger Who played "Penny", wealthy heiress and Desmond's former girlfriend, who we learn in the Season 2 finale is using sophisticated magnetic anomaly detection technology to locate him.
> 
> In fact, briefly during the first episode, I thought it *WAS* Penny!


Yep, I had that same confusion too, now that I think about it!


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

markz said:


> NATO and NASA are two others that don't use periods.


What about the LPGA??


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> ... young alter boy ...


An "alter boy" would be a pre-op transsexual, but an "altar boy" is the tempting jailbait which so many priests can't resist.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> Nope, I still don't stand corrected. Just because johnp mistakenly said Ethan in the first post, he mentioned the worst actress in the world noticing he was dry. That is Ana-Lucia that noticed Goodwin was dry in the Other 48 Days. Bow down!


You make too many mistaken ASSumptions.
"Ethan" was specifically referred to, so that is not in question.
And in my response I jokingly filled in the blank about the identity of the un-named "worst actress".
End of discussion.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

5thcrewman said:


> What about the LPGA??


this bit of wit was worth quoting and seeing again. i hope other people got the joke! BRAVO!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

getreal said:


> An "alter boy" would be a pre-op transsexual, but an "altar boy" is the tempting jailbait which so many priests can't resist.


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## zobetron (Apr 17, 2001)




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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I think Juliet looks JUST like the wife from the Santa Clause. Who's with me?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think she looks exactly like Miss Sally Danforth of Omaha, Nebraska.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

johnperkins21 said:


> This is exactly what I thought when Jack first mentioned the tumor. I thought, well the tumor is definitely gone by now if it's someone one the island. This is just another one of those moments that tells me the writers have no idea where they're going with this.


When Rose went to the "healer" he told her that though there are places in the world where healing takes place, those places won't heal all people. He told her his spot would not cure her but the Island did. So the island won't cure Benry. There could be another spot that would. (Sorry if this is a Smeek, I haven't finished the thread).


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

*There is no BENRY! There is only BEN*


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

scheckeNYK said:


> this bit of wit was worth quoting and seeing again. i hope other people got the joke! BRAVO!


Ah, I get it now that you made me think about it!


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I kept thinking of the Vladimir Nabokov book where a guy is convinced someone looks just like him and plots a murder with his "twin" as the scapegoat, then it turns out they look nothing alike.


Spoiler tags please.

Scratch another book off the To-Do list...


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

scottykempf said:


> Did anyone else think that maybe Juliette's little message to Jack is just another trick? Maybe Jack seeing the X-rays, and Ben "coming clean" to Jack are just another part of their plan.


+1....My thoughts exactly......

One thought I have been tossing around too, and my apologies if it is a smeek, but I sort of think that maybe Juliet is the true leader of the Others. They just portray Ben as the leader for whatever reasons they deem necessary....


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

zobetron said:


>


Do NOT insult Juliet that way.. 

Meredith needs a few (dozen) more cheeseburgers before she'll look that good...


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> In fact, briefly during the first episode, I thought it *WAS* Penny!


Good. I was beginning to think I was the only one that thought that.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Hey, if we're going to compare, might as well compare them all!

Jack's ex (Julie Bowen), Jack's jailer (Elizabeth Mitchell), Penelope (Sonya Walger), and the Gray's chick (Ellen Pompeo - who does look a bit like Sonya Walger):


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Aside from similarly colored hair they really don't look alike. You folks need to pay more attention to hot chicks.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I think Ellen Pompeo and Elizabeth Mitchell look a lot alike. Especially in these pictures.

The others... not so much.

However, Ellen Pompeo's voice is so distinctive that I don't see how you could ever mistake the two.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

madscientist said:


> I think Ellen Pompeo and Elizabeth Mitchell look a lot alike. Especially in these pictures.
> 
> The others... not so much.
> 
> However, Ellen Pompeo's voice is so distinctive that I don't see how you could ever mistake the two.


I agree. They have similar smirks, similar eyes, etc.


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## mark1278 (Nov 6, 2006)

Is it possible that the smoke monster is a mechanical device (like a crane) surrounded by a swarm of something magnetic being controlled by a person? 

Also, what happened to Rose?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mark1278 said:


> Is it possible that the smoke monster is a mechanical device (like a crane) surrounded by a swarm of something magnetic being controlled by a person?
> 
> Also, what happened to Rose?


No

and

Nothing.


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## mark1278 (Nov 6, 2006)

I think it is possible.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mark1278 said:


> Is it possible that the smoke monster is a mechanical device (like a crane) surrounded by a swarm of something magnetic being controlled by a person?


This is LOST. Anything is possible! 


> Also, what happened to Rose?


I think Rose and Bernard like the island so much that they became healthier and trimmer, and instead of tanning, the mysterious Island forces bleached Rose's skin, but did allow Bernard's skin to darken slightly. Rose and Bernard now go by the names of Nikki and Paulo.

Nah, I kid. 

I'm sure Rose is around, just in the background. You know, like Paulo and Nikki have been since the crash!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mark1278 said:


> I think it is possible.


How does a crane assume the form of a person? As well as move through the jungle at pretty high speeds?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

We don't _know_ that the smoke thing is the one taking on those shapes - just that it followed Eko while he was also seeing shapes..

(Insert some joke about the smoke monster being part of the journey here)

(  )

We went through the smoke itself - there's "else" in it - but that smoke is able to project images (scenes from Eko's flashbacks), move around, physically grab things (e.g. picking Eko up), and possibly even read thoughts (although something else could be feeding it the images).

I'm gonna go out on a limb and agree - there's no crane.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

So one of the thoughts I keep thinking back to is the comic book.. In the comic book,

well, I guess this should be spoilerized just in case, but I don't think so (please, no conversations about whether it's spoiler-worthy or not):



Spoiler



So in the book, two heroes captured an alien intelligent lifeform, which didn't actually have bad intentions.. They kept him against his will in a military-controlled bunker (this is all based on my memories - I could be off)..

I wonder if somewhere trapped on the island is some intelligence (maybe the island itself, maybe a being living somewhere, whatever), and the black smoke nanotech/whatever is an extension of it.. It's how it can see what's going on on the island, while the creature itself is held captive. The humans (Others) around it would be almost irrelevant - there for their own reasons - but the real interesting mystery could revolve around this captured thing and its interest in everything on the island.

Bottom line, the smoke thing and how it's judging Eko seems very different from the intentions and actions of the "Other" people on the island.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb and agree - there's no crane.


But maybe there's a flamingo.

Not a pink flamingo, but a psychic flamingo.

Flamingo as theoretical construct.

Strange as it may seem, when I started that thought, I could have sworn it was going somewhere...


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

You don't think they're going "Star Trek V" with this do you?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Hey.. What if we're being misled here..

The way they just set up this episode, it seems obvious that the smoke monster and Yemmi's appearances are closely related, right? But what if they aren't?

Perhaps the smoke monster was gonna be there anyway, and it's simple - it just kills people after they've crossed some line and went to some forbidden place or something..

Then, what if Yemmi's appearance and comments about "time to confess" were just because it knows Eko's about to go there to die...

In other words, maybe we were led to believe that the smoke monster and Yemmi's appearance were hand-in-hand (a collaboration, or the same thing), but in some _later_ episode we find out the hallucinations are just extra, layered on top of real-world events..

(Walt appearing before Shannon before she's shot comes to mind, except that it seemed in that case like his appearance accidentally _caused_ her to get shot)


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> (Walt appearing before Shannon before she's shot comes to mind, except that it seemed in that case like his appearance accidentally _caused_ her to get shot)


But by your theory, how do we know Yemi didn't _cause_ Eko to be killed by bringing him over the imaginary line in the sand? Interesting...

Is it Wednesday yet?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Just be forewarned. After Wednesday night we'll be split into two groups:

Group A: "WOW! This episode was great! HOLY CRAP! Can you believe that happened?!?! Oh my gosh, now we know X but we now want to know Y!" Group A, two weeks after Wednesday night: "Hey, are any of you guys watching Daybreak? It's not Lost, but it's pretty good and fills the slot. When's Lost starting back up anyway?" Group B, when Lost returns: "WOW! Can you believe the reason Taye Diggs was stuck in the time loop was he couldn't deal with not being able to watch Lost? I can't wait for tonight!"

Group B: That's it, I'm deleting my SP! We still don't know why Locke lost his ability to walk! We don't know ANYTHING! What was up with Penny in the S2 season finale? We still don't know! I hate this show!" Group B, two weeks after Wednesday night: "WTF??? Where's Lost? I'm about ready to delete my SP, I can never tell if Lost is on or not! With all these weeks without Lost, I'm starting to lose interest!" Group B, when Lost returns: "It better answer some questions, dammit, or I'm deleting my SP! Hey, does 24 start back up next week?"

You just watch.

Greg


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Greg - lol.

I am still loving the show but MAN can they at least give us SOMETHING in answer form and stop throwing questions at us? 

Get an answer for one thing, get 2930340928232113230984328 new questions. very frustrating.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

gchance said:


> Just be forewarned. After Wednesday night we'll be split into two groups:
> 
> Group A: "WOW! This episode was great! HOLY CRAP! Can you believe that happened?!?! Oh my gosh, now we know X but we now want to know Y!" Group A, two weeks after Wednesday night: "Hey, are any of you guys watching Daybreak? It's not Lost, but it's pretty good and fills the slot. When's Lost starting back up anyway?" Group B, when Lost returns: "WOW! Can you believe the reason Taye Diggs was stuck in the time loop was he couldn't deal with not being able to watch Lost? I can't wait for tonight!"
> 
> ...


I'm so sick of people bringing up _Daybreak _in Lost threads.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

rkester said:


> Get an answer for one thing, get 2930340928232113230984328 new questions. very frustrating.


Don't you mean 4,815,162,342 questions?

Greg


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hefe said:


> I'm so sick of people bringing up _Daybreak _in Lost threads.


Ironic.

Considering Daybreak is the new...

...oh, never mind.


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## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

The LA Times ruined the surprise of the episode for me. I don't watch Lost until Saturday night. I opened the Friday Calendar section to a photo of AAA with a BIG BOLD caption below about Mr. Eko being killed. Still...I enjoyed the show.....

Note to LA Times Editor -- SPOILERIZE PLEASE!


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

gchance said:


> Don't you mean 4,815,162,342 questions?
> 
> Greg


That was in Season 1.

#2 and 3 have really piled on the "wtf?" moments and questions fosho.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

CarynFromHermosa said:


> The LA Times ruined the surprise of the episode for me. I don't watch Lost until Saturday night. I opened the Friday Calendar section to a photo of AAA with a BIG BOLD caption below about Mr. Eko being killed. Still...I enjoyed the show.....
> 
> Note to LA Times Editor -- SPOILERIZE PLEASE!


considering that most people actually watch the show when it is on, I think the LA Times is ok. If you don't watch shows on time then avoid news publications that cover entertainment. It already happened so for them it's news.


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

I watched about half of S2 and then avoided all spoilers for hte rest until the box set. I managed to not find out about anything on the show that whole time. Pretty difficult too when it makes front page on newsites!

There should be a spoiler for the biggies like deaths until you click thru to the article. IMHO just for those who time ****f their programming to watch later. I sometimes don't get to Lost until the weekend, I'd hate to have it ruined because of a news article.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

rkester said:


> I watched about half of S2 and then avoided all spoilers for hte rest until the box set. I managed to not find out about anything on the show that whole time. Pretty difficult too when it makes front page on newsites!
> 
> There should be a spoiler for the biggies like deaths until you click thru to the article. IMHO just for those who time ****f their programming to watch later. I sometimes don't get to Lost until the weekend, I'd hate to have it ruined because of a news article.


How do you put spoiler tags on a newpaper?

Stop playing video games and watch your shows in a timely manner


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Well, I don't mean actual spoiler tags, just don't put the big spoils in the headlines. 

Make it so you have to goto the article to get the big news.

In the world of sports, you expect the score in the headline. IN the world of Lost and other mysterious shows, you should expect the score not in the headline. itms


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

When shows become news (like Lost), I make it a point to watch it as soon as possible after air-time. Otherwise, I have only myself to blame for what I might learn from the TiVo-less general public.


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

CarynFromHermosa said:


> The LA Times ruined the surprise of the episode for me. I don't watch Lost until Saturday night. I opened the Friday Calendar section to a photo of AAA with a BIG BOLD caption below about Mr. Eko being killed. Still...I enjoyed the show.....
> 
> Note to LA Times Editor -- SPOILERIZE PLEASE!


I did the same thing to my buddy here at work. On Friday at lunch, I asked him if he was still interested after they killed off Ecko (his favorite character). He was pissed. I had just assumed that he watched it since he almost always does on Wednesdays. One of the few times I didn't start out with asking if he'd watch, I just jumped right in with the spoiler.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

rkester said:


> In the world of sports, you expect the score in the headline. IN the world of Lost and other mysterious shows, you should expect the score not in the headline.


What happens if you TiVo the game?

Face it. For shows that get popular, you have to expect to watch them as soon as possible, and actively make an effort to avoid anywhere that you might hear spoilers (radio, discussions at work, etc).


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

johnperkins21 said:


> I had just assumed that he watched it since he almost always does on Wednesdays. One of the few times I didn't start out with asking if he'd watch, I just jumped right in with the spoiler.


And you use Tivo...shame on you


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## johnperkins21 (Aug 29, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> And you use Tivo...shame on you


And he's the one who turned me on to Tivo, so double shame.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Figaro said:


> How do you put spoiler tags on a newpaper?


I've seen some movement on this front, but usually it's for FUTURE spoilers, not for spoilers on episodes that have already aired. Some entertainment magazines and web sites will actually embed spoiler warnings at appropriate places in their articles, warning the reader a spoiler is coming and telling them to skip X paragraphs if they don't want to know. (Entertainment Weekly has done this.)


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Spoiler, schmoiler. You guys that get pissed about spoilers are wimps. Yup. You know it. 

I dont like them, don't read them if I get warned, but I sure don't have a hissy fit if someone tells me. 

Geez. Lost is my favorite of all shows. If I missed watching an episode on Wednesday night, I would be all over my buddy at work that watches it to have him tell me what happened. I couldn't stand to NOT know. I wouldn't wait for him to tell me......not till friday. I would have to know. Then I would go home and watch it as soon as possible.


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## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Spoiler, schmoiler. You guys that get pissed about spoilers are wimps. Yup. You know it.
> 
> I dont like them, don't read them if I get warned, but I sure don't have a hissy fit if someone tells me.
> 
> Geez. Lost is my favorite of all shows. If I missed watching an episode on Wednesday night, I would be all over my buddy at work that watches it to have him tell me what happened. I couldn't stand to NOT know. I wouldn't wait for him to tell me......not till friday. I would have to know. Then I would go home and watch it as soon as possible.


...I bet you've started searching for Xmas presents around the house already, too


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

CarynFromHermosa said:


> The LA Times ruined the surprise of the episode for me. I don't watch Lost until Saturday night. I opened the Friday Calendar section to a photo of AAA with a BIG BOLD caption below about Mr. Eko being killed. Still...I enjoyed the show.....
> 
> Note to LA Times Editor -- SPOILERIZE PLEASE!


Entertainment Weekly just had a big article about AAA and his death. Glad I watched the episode. 

However, even though I have Tivo, there are certain shows that I watch live (or same day at worst) just because I don't want to be accidently spoiled while reading a newspaper or watching the next morning's news shows.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

rkester said:


> just don't put the big spoils in the headlines.


I think that's a reasonable request

OTOH, who reads newspapers anymore? 


Drew2006 said:


> I've seen some movement on this front, but usually it's for FUTURE spoilers, not for spoilers on episodes that have already aired. Some entertainment magazines and web sites will actually embed spoiler warnings at appropriate places in their articles, warning the reader a spoiler is coming and telling them to skip X paragraphs if they don't want to know. (Entertainment Weekly has done this.)


I think that's great. It is considerate of the readers. The first time I ever saw something like this was years ago in a Tme or Newsweek article about Fatal Attraction.

My favorite spoiler gripe was about 10 years ago. Someone wrote a letter to the editor complaining that the local newspaper's TV section's cover photo gave away the ending to A&E's Pride and Prejudice miniseries. Get real. The book is nearly 200 years old. At some point the statute of limitations has run on spoilers. Personally, I think that point is well short of 100 years.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> [...]
> 
> 
> Drew2006 said:
> ...


Hey!  Quit it! 2k is a classic, while 2006 hasn't proven itself yet.

I'm not ready to trade up!


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

I've watched this ep a couple of times, and after reading the stories about how difficult AAA was and how he wanted to leave the show, the producers wanted him to leave the show, etc., etc., the final, exaggerated beat-down he gets by smokey makes me think of when Chef left SP due to the falling out between the creators of SP and Isaac Hayes. At the end of the ep, Chef gets shot, impaled, mutilated by wild animals, etc.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> Hey!  Quit it! 2k is a classic, while 2006 hasn't proven itself yet.
> 
> I'm not ready to trade up!


  Okay, I couldn't resist one more time, but I'm done now.


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## spelcheker (Nov 5, 2002)

I'm always the last to the party.

1. Nobody mentioned how much the monster looks like the smoke signal?

2. Eyeballs + patches have me thinking that the island sometimes punishes by plucking out eyeballs, like the kung fu teacher in Kill Bill 2. I bet we see someone lose one soon.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> At the end of the ep, Chef gets shot, impaled, mutilated by wild animals, etc.


Maybe he's not dead. They say the last thing you do before you die is crap your...


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Maybe he's not dead. They say the last thing you do before you die is crap your...


He did. Why do you think Locke said: "oh..Ecko!!"


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

spelcheker said:


> I'm always the last to the party.
> 
> 1. Nobody mentioned how much the monster looks like the smoke signal?


That's because it doesn't. The smoke signal Sayid made, however, looks just like the smoke signal that Rousseau said is the signal that Others are coming.

Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Maybe the smoke monster was waaaay over at the other side of the island but wanted to see the launching of Michael's boat, so it went waaaay up in the air to see better.


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## spelcheker (Nov 5, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Maybe the smoke monster was waaaay over at the other side of the island but wanted to see the launching of Michael's boat, so it went waaaay up in the air to see better.


EXACTLY!

Hey, when I take a stupid stance on something, I like it to be so stupid I can claim sole ownership!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

By all means, it's yours!

4 and a half more hours! Before then I'm gonna be opening Gears of War though I hope.. So conflicted.

(yeah, right)


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## spelcheker (Nov 5, 2002)

O.K., but when we find out that one of the times we thought we were looking at the smoke signal we were looking at the monster, I'm gonna run around in circles naked with a rubber band tied around my fanny screaming "I'm an Airrrrrplaaane baby, make me take off!!!"

(10 brownie points to anyone who knows what that's from)


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## rkester (Jan 10, 2005)

Actually, I have no problem believing that the smoky creature could pass itself off as smoke from a fire and could have been something we saw in an episode prevous and thought was just smoke. Afterall, this IS the world of Lost and nothing is out of the realm of possibility.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Somehow, and I can't figure out how, on top of all the other fantastic and impossible things going on on the island, Desmond being "unstuck in time" seems an order of magnitude more impossible, and somehow a strain for me. I hope that thread gets resolved in an "oh, it wasn't what I thought" kind of way.


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

gchance said:


> Just be forewarned. After Wednesday night we'll be split into two groups:
> 
> Group A: "WOW! This episode was great! HOLY CRAP! Can you believe that happened?!?! Oh my gosh, now we know X but we now want to know Y!" Group A, two weeks after Wednesday night: "Hey, are any of you guys watching Daybreak? It's not Lost, but it's pretty good and fills the slot. When's Lost starting back up anyway?" Group B, when Lost returns: "WOW! Can you believe the reason Taye Diggs was stuck in the time loop was he couldn't deal with not being able to watch Lost? I can't wait for tonight!"
> 
> ...


Have to say this wasn't too far off of a prediction...

KD


----------

