# internet keeps going out



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

I just got my MoCA adapters and hooked them up as instructed in the thread with the pictures.

All is working well, as in, internet comes on, Tivo minis are connected.

There is just one SMALL problem.

The internet has disconnected about 7 times in 3 hours. It just keeps going out and rebooting and then coming back on.

This is not going to work long term at all.

What might be the issue?

Thanks,

Dawn


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

If you could be a little more specific about your setup it would help. I assume you have cable internet. What kind of modem do you have? The MoCA signals might be causing issues for your cable modem. Newer modems seem to deal with MoCA signals better than older modems. You might need to get an extra MoCA "POE" filter and place it in front of the cable modem.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

I have a Motorola SB6141 modem and an Apple Airport router.

I had the POE filter at the modem, but I still had issues. I moved the POE filter to the MoCA, since that is where the cable line is connected to first. I wasn't exactly sure where to put the POE since it said, "point of entry" and it enters at the MoCA connection first.

At both connections (router or MoCA), we are getting glitches and the internet will go out for a bit.

Since my husband sometimes works from home and my teen boys play online games with their friends, we can't have this issue on a regular basis.

After I posted, it went out again 2-3 times. 

Now, where the cable line comes in to this room (office), it does have a splitter. The room on the other side of the wall is a den, and they just put in a splitter so that one room could get cable TV and the the office could get cable internet.

Should the POE go where the splitter is instead?


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

The POE filter should go between the street and your house. If you put it in a random room, it will probably break the MoCA connections. If you don't know where the cable enters the building, leave the filter off completely and see what happens.


----------



## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Which Roamio do you have? Are you using any MoCA adapters? Are you referring generally to the other big MoCA thread, or have you posted and gotten advice in that thread? I don't follow that thread very much and couldn't find any posts by you when I quickly checked. If you do have others posts regarding your setup on this forum, could you link to them here?

Seems like perhaps you've inadvertently created a loop in networking and the chaos of that loop in intermittently overwhelming the router and killing internet access.


----------



## pwlcheng (Dec 6, 2007)

DawnW said:


> I wasn't exactly sure where to put the POE since it said, "point of entry"


Point of Entry means "The Point" where the coax cable "Enter" your house, before any equipment(s) connect to it, no matter it is the modem or MOCA. So the POE filter should be placed before your Modem AND MOCA.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

pwlcheng said:


> Point of Entry means "The Point" where the coax cable "Enter" your house, before any equipment(s) connect to it, no matter it is the modem or MOCA. So the POE filter should be placed before your Modem AND MOCA.


So I need three of them?

One in the basement where the cable enters the house, one in front of the MoCA and one in front of the Modem?

Dawn


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Arcady said:


> The POE filter should go between the street and your house. If you put it in a random room, it will probably break the MoCA connections. If you don't know where the cable enters the building, leave the filter off completely and see what happens.


The filter WAS off and it the internet was cutting out every 15 min. or so. We have tried the POE now only at the modem and then at the MoCA.

I have no idea where it is on the street. We live on over 2 acres and our house is very far back from the road.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

You just said the cable enters the house in the basement. Put one there. That is all you probably need. I don't get what you mean when you say you are putting one on the MoCA.

Do you know what the POE filter is for? (It blocks MoCA.)

We need to know how your network is set up to tell you the exact problem.


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> So I need three of them?
> 
> One in the basement where the cable enters the house...and one in front of the Modem?


Yes, you need to put one somewhere between where the cable enters the home and before the first splitter. This blocks the MoCA signals from leaving your home. And you may also need one in front of the modem to block the MoCA signals from causing issues for your modem.



DawnW said:


> one in front of the MoCA


No, don't put one in front of the MoCA adapter. If you have a filter anywhere between your MoCA adapter and the Minis, it will block the MoCA signals between the adapter and the Minis thus rendering them incapable of sending any data between each another, assuming the filter is working as it is designed to work.

If you have a tuning adapter, you may need a 3rd one to block the MoCA signals from causing problems for your tuning adapter. Like some cable modems, tuning adapters can also sometimes be sensitive to MoCA signals.


----------



## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

DawnW said:


> I had the POE filter at the modem, but I still had issues.


Don't install a POE filter until you've got everything working normally.

Installing the POE filter can be the last step. If something goes wrong...you'll know it right away.

I don't use moca, but have read the above advice more than a few times here on the forums.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

DeltaOne said:


> Don't install a POE filter until you've got everything working normally.
> 
> Installing the POE filter can be the last step. If something goes wrong...you'll know it right away.
> 
> I don't use moca, but have read the above advice more than a few times here on the forums.


That is what I did first. No POE, but it was going out every 15 min. That is when I started playing around with it.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Yes, you need to put one somewhere between where the cable enters the home and before the first splitter. This blocks the MoCA signals from leaving your home. And you may also need one in front of the modem to block the MoCA signals from causing issues for your modem.
> 
> No, don't put one in front of the MoCA adapter. If you have a filter anywhere between your MoCA adapter and the Minis, it will block the MoCA signals between the adapter and the Minis thus rendering them incapable of sending any data between each another, assuming the filter is working as it is designed to work.
> 
> If you have a tuning adapter, you may need a 3rd one to block the MoCA signals from causing problems for your tuning adapter. Like some cable modems, tuning adapters can also sometimes be sensitive to MoCA signals.


Thank you.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

So far this am we haven't had any interruptions. I removed the POE last night. 

I have no idea why it kept going out before without the POE, but we will see how it performs for the weekend.


----------



## SNJpage1 (May 25, 2006)

Just had comcast tech at my house and they replaced the grounding bar with one that has the filter built into it. He said that the new X-1 boxes work off of moca and the signals going out onto the street can cause problems with the communication between the boxes in the house. So you might be having the same type of problem.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

SNJpage1 said:


> Just had comcast tech at my house and they replaced the grounding bar with one that has the filter built into it. He said that the new X-1 boxes work off of moca and the signals going out onto the street can cause problems with the communication between the boxes in the house. So you might be having the same type of problem.


It will be a huge job. We are up a hill and live about 1,000 yards from the street.

Dawn


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

DawnW said:


> It will be a huge job. We are up a hill and live about 1,000 yards from the street.


So the installer will have to walk 1000 yards from his truck to your house to replace the grounding bar?

Anyway, if there is 1000 yards of coax from your house to the street, then a MoCA filter is really not going to do anything. There's no way MoCA will travel 3000 feet.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Arcady said:


> So the installer will have to walk 1000 yards from his truck to your house to replace the grounding bar?
> 
> Anyway, if there is 1000 yards of coax from your house to the street, then a MoCA filter is really not going to do anything. There's no way MoCA will travel 3000 feet.


Oh, oops, that should read 100 yards......


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

We are still having issues.

We can't even get one of the Tivo Minis to work and we just unplugged the MoCA completely for the evening so that my teen can play an online game without getting bumped off.

This is very frustrating.

Tito says it is a TWC problem and TWC says that if I get their boxes, I won't have this issue and says it is a Tivo issue.

I am fed up with all of it.

It hasn't worked properly yet.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

You need to explain how everything is hooked up so we can try to help.


----------



## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Arcady said:


> You need to explain how everything is hooked up so we can try to help.





tatergator1 said:


> Which Roamio do you have? Are you using any MoCA adapters? Are you referring generally to the other big MoCA thread, or have you posted and gotten advice in that thread? I don't follow that thread very much and couldn't find any posts by you when I quickly checked. If you do have others posts regarding your setup on this forum, could you link to them here?
> 
> Seems like perhaps you've inadvertently created a loop in networking and the chaos of that loop in intermittently overwhelming the router and killing internet access.


I guess my previous post a few days ago was overlooked. We need to have answers to these questions to have a chance at helping you.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tatergator1 said:


> I guess my previous post a few days ago was overlooked. We need to have answers to these questions to have a chance at helping you.


I hooked them up exactly as was explained on this forum in the photos

Cable in to MoCA, then cable line connected to modem, modem connected to router via ethernet cord.

I have a Roamio basic.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Ok, I am not sure it is the MoCA at all.

I unplugged the MoCA last night because my teen wanted to play an online game and the interruptions were an issue.

We still had multiple interruptions. We even unplugged everything......computers, iPads, anything that used wifi and rebooted, several times.

This did all start around the same time. We got the new modem at that time as well.

It is quite possible that I received a faulty modem. I think today I will call TWC and reconnect my old modem and see how that works for a couple of days. It can't handle the faster speeds, but should be ok to handle what we have.

If outages don't happen with the old modem, I will exchange this new one I got from Amazon.


----------



## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

DawnW said:


> Ok, I am not sure it is the MoCA at all.
> 
> I unplugged the MoCA last night because my teen wanted to play an online game and the interruptions were an issue.
> 
> ...


Post back with the model #'s of all of the equipment you're attempting to use. Include the modem, the router and the MoCA equipment that you're attempting to use. Maybe before exchanging the modem have TWC re-provision the modem.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

WVZR1 said:


> Post back with the model #'s of all of the equipment you're attempting to use. Include the modem, the router and the MoCA equipment that you're attempting to use. Maybe before exchanging the modem have TWC re-provision the modem.


Ok, let's see.

Modem: Motorola SB6141
Router: Apple Airport Extreme
MoCA ordered directly from Tivo.com and is an Actiontec ECB2500C

I just watched a YouTube of the problem of internet going in and out with higher internet speeds and came up with a possibility of needing one of these????

http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Sign...UTF8&qid=1423073880&sr=8-2&keywords=bda-K1-ra

If it comes to that I have no clue how to hook that and the MoCA up.

However, it looks like this is a somewhat common problem according to this guy:


----------



## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

I don't use an Apple Airport but I believe that with other routers, disconnect issues are usually removed if the wireless is turned on for G & N only UNLESS you had an older B device. Do you have issues with the "wired" equipment from the router or just the wireless devices? If a wired device is connected directly to the modem are there still issues? 

You can certainly check the values in the modem properties and if you believe there are issues talk to TWC. I'd certainly start with likely having them re-provision the SB6141 and start fresh. It's certainly a nuisance but it's no doubt the starting point.

What is the model # of your old modem? 

I would NOT rush to buy the AMP that you've mentioned. A last resort I'd think. Depending on the number of outlets you actually have TWC might have a quality piece that they'll offer up to rectify signal issues if there are any.

Unfortunately there's a good but to check.

Good luck!


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I use a Motorola SB6183 (slightly updated version of your 6141) with an Apple AirPort Extreme. I know this setup can work.

Here's how I would connect things in most cases:

Coax cable comes out of wall -> Three way splitter connected to:
1. Cable modem
2. MoCA adapter
3. TiVo Roamio

Ethernet cable connected from cable modem to Airport WAN port.
Ethernet cable connected from MoCA adapter to AirPort LAN port.
Ethernet cable connected from TiVo Roamio to AirPort LAN port.

TiVo Minis in other rooms connected to coax.


Leave the MoCA POE filter off the system and see if this setup works. (BTW, your cable modem has a MoCA filter built-in, so do not put any filters on that run.)


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

WVZR1 said:


> I don't use an Apple Airport but I believe that with other routers, disconnect issues are usually removed if the wireless is turned on for G & N only UNLESS you had an older B device. Do you have issues with the "wired" equipment from the router or just the wireless devices? If a wired device is connected directly to the modem are there still issues?
> 
> You can certainly check the values in the modem properties and if you believe there are issues talk to TWC. I'd certainly start with likely having them re-provision the SB6141 and start fresh. It's certainly a nuisance but it's no doubt the starting point.
> 
> ...


Old modem is Motorola SB5101

I DO have issues with the wired devices as well, since the entire internet goes out, including the modem and router. It just keeps cycling off and then back on.

I called Tivo today. They said that the splitter coming in where the modem is attached may be my issue. It is a 5-1000mhz splitter (one line for the modem and one line for the TV) They told me I need to buy a 2ghz splitter as that may be why the Tivo minis aren't working (although one of them already did work previously so I have no idea what is going on with that.) and may be why the internet keeps going out.

Since those are less than $15, I will see if I can pick one up tomorrow.

I will try just about anything at the moment.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

You don't need 2ghz splitters. Ignore anything TiVo says.


----------



## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

DawnW said:


> Old modem is Motorola SB5101
> 
> I DO have issues with the wired devices as well, since the entire internet goes out, including the modem and router. It just keeps cycling off and then back on.
> 
> ...


Doesn't cost anything to connect the SB5101 and that might be the best "first effort". I'd check all of the connections from the outside to the inside and confirm there are none loose etc. You can check the quality of the signal with both modems and if there are issues I'd think you'd have similar issues. I'd think maybe a cable issue or a bad F connector, swap out the splitter with another of any type that you might have in the system elsewhere. Maybe a bad Ethernet cable from the WAN port to the modem?

How many total splitters do you have in the entire wiring scheme? I'd contact TWC and I believe they'd accommodate you with the splitters.

Have you asked TWC to re-provision the SB6141? They should be able to see the modem from their end and maybe advise if there are issues. Does the SB6141 show as the connected modem in your TWC account? Your modem came from Amazon, did TWC have any problem provisioning it the first time you connected it?

I didn't see "Arcady's" post but I'd have to agree. You don't need a 2GHz splitter but the quality of the splitters can certainly help/hinder the MoCA when you get to that point. How many total coax runs do you have to different rooms? How is that distribution done by TWC?


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

CRAP!

TWC says it is Apple's problem. It needs to be "bridged" to this modem?

On hold with Apple. 

UPDATE: Apple was very nice. TWC was NOT! 

I have "bridged" through TWC and Apple and hopefully this will help.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

I am cautiously optimistic.

It is running.
It is MUCH higher speed than it was before.
One Tivo Mini is now working. :up:

Can't deal with the other one until tomorrow night.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Well, just had an outage again.

ARGH!


----------



## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

DawnW said:


> I am cautiously optimistic.
> 
> It is running.
> It is MUCH higher speed than it was before.
> ...


I don't understand the "bridging" that you mention if the Apple device was the "ONLY" router. I'm looking forward to you explaining that. Damn - meant to respond to your "bridging post" but I believe you'll understand.

I believe you've got bad connections, connectors or bad cables OR very poor signal quality from the street. Put your SB5101 in the mix OR did you ask TWC to re-provision your SB6141. What signal levels do you have with the SB6141? The video you referenced earlier showed you how to check all of that.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

WVZR1 said:


> I don't understand the "bridging" that you mention if the Apple device was the "ONLY" router. I'm looking forward to you explaining that.


I don't understand ANY of this!

TWC told me that the Apple was the problem (the router) and that it needed to be "bridged." I have no stinkin' clue what that means, but I wrote it down so that I could use the correct terminology with Apple. Apple seemed to know what I was saying? Although they said the modem is what needed to be bridged and not the router, so I have no idea!

If I could explain it, I would. That is just the terminology I was given by TWC.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

The modem you have is a bridged device. You don't want to put the AirPort in bridged mode or you won't have a router.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Arcady said:


> The modem you have is a bridged device. You don't want to put the AirPort in bridged mode or you won't have a router.


Thank you. I have no idea what that means, but will spend some time looking it up later.

Whatever they guided me through on the Apple didn't discontinue our service, so I assume he knew what he was doing.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Internet went out 3 times late last night and has gone out twice this am.

It just goes out, recycles and then comes back on.

However, anything we need to do online (including streaming) is affected.

TWC's solution? "Oh, you need to just plug your computer directly in to the modem and disconnect your router."

Um, yeah, I want to pay your crazy high prices so that I can have only ONE device with the ability to connect to the internet.

I will call again this evening when I get home.


----------



## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

DawnW said:


> Internet went out 3 times late last night and has gone out twice this am.
> 
> It just goes out, recycles and then comes back on.
> 
> ...


The SB5101 that you have, if it functioned well in your environment should be all of the diagnostics that you need. Put it back into service and check your Internet connections for a day. You could also and likely should check your modem logs for the errors, check the reported power levels etc.

Every issue you mention hints a problem with the modem configuration file and the provisioning from TWC. I do believe when I was shopping for a DOCSIS 3 modem there were some really mixed reviews of the SB6141 and there were older "BLACK" versions that had many issues. I believe older firmware that ISP's either wouldn't or couldn't update. I was shopping nearly 2 years ago but I recall it. I would think TWC could confirm the firmware and confirm it's the issue. Is yours black or white?


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

WVZR1 said:


> The SB5101 that you have, if it functioned well in your environment should be all of the diagnostics that you need. Put it back into service and check your Internet connections for a day. You could also and likely should check your modem logs for the errors, check the reported power levels etc.
> 
> Every issue you mention hints a problem with the modem configuration file and the provisioning from TWC. I do believe when I was shopping for a DOCSIS 3 modem there were some really mixed reviews of the SB6141 and there were older "BLACK" versions that had many issues. I believe older firmware that ISP's either wouldn't or couldn't update. I was shopping nearly 2 years ago but I recall it. I would think TWC could confirm the firmware and confirm it's the issue. Is yours black or white?


THank you. I still haven't tested the old modem out and can do that tomorrow.

I bought the white one as I read the black ones are refurbished and the white ones are new.

I have no idea how to check modem logs but can google and see what I can find on how to do that.

Dawn


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

DawnW said:


> THank you. I still haven't tested the old modem out and can do that tomorrow.
> 
> I bought the white one as I read the black ones are refurbished and the white ones are new.
> 
> ...


It might be the same as the other Moto/Arris modems. Put 192.168.100.1 into the browser address field and hit enter.


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> It might be the same as the other Moto/Arris modems. Put 192.168.100.1 into the browser address field and hit enter.


On my SB6183 the modem address is 192.168.100.1, just like every Motorola/Arris modem I have ever used.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Thank you! I found the modem logs. I just have no idea what they mean. 

There are 20 log entries just from today! 7 of them say "Lost" on them.

Most of the codes say T202.0 and then:

Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=94:62:69:f1:29:89;CMTS-MAC=00:01:5c:40:4a:49;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;


----------



## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

DawnW said:


> Most of the codes say T202.0 and then:
> 
> Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=94:62:69:f1:29:89;CMTS-MAC=00:01:5c:40:4a:49;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;


I suspect a bad cable or low signal coming into your house. You need to have the cable company come out and test the signal levels.


----------



## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

In this post of yours at about 3:30 there's the Motorola modem properties:

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10395616#post10395616

You need to maybe post your location in NC and ask for confirmation of what you see in the CONFIGURATION TAB. Post a screenshot maybe.

The firmware should be displayed there.

Also in that video you should check your signal values and post them back here. Screen shots maybe. You've never mentioned TWC checking the modem configuration/provisioning. You can compare your signals to the video but disregard all references to the AMP.

Your modem is either incorrectly provisioned, you've got bad cables or maybe actually a bad modem. You own the modem so you may get charged if you request a service call.

I believe the most important thing is post the signal levels, the FIRMWARE version and your location. I would think there are many in your vicinity with the SB6141 and the confirmation of the FIRMWARE should be easy. There will likely be maybe many thoughts on the signal levels but maybe that's what you need.

SCREENSHOTS of configuration, signal tabs

You had no issues until you connected the DOCSIS 3 modem. How close are your neighbors? A problem at the street? Maybe. Do neighbors have issues? If one of them have a Motorola DOCSIS 3 modem of any model - compare your signal level and FIRMWARE.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

WVZR1 said:


> In this post of yours at about 3:30 there's the Motorola modem properties:
> 
> www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10395616#post10395616
> 
> ...


Thanks. I will have to deal with this tomorrow at the earliest, we won't be home much over the next couple of days.

We live quite a ways from our neighbors. We all have acreage.


----------



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Ok, I have NO earthly idea what I did, but I haven't had it go out in 2 days.

I will post again if it starts up again.

I checked the logs and the last time it went out or had an issue was yesterday morning. This is a huge improvement so far, and we will see what happens.


----------

