# Tivo - Lack of Innovation



## stedmakr (Dec 26, 2003)

Where is the innovation? Tivo hasn't done any thing new on the hardware or software front in such a long time. It's as if the corporation has decided to rest on its existing patents. The UI hasn't changed, access to alternate media (youtube, amazon, etc) hasn't changed in several months/years, the capabilities of the machine haven't changed, and of course there isn't any new hardware.

Tivo was perfectly postured to be at the forefront of the current push to integrate internet media, in various forms into the living room.

Are we really in sort of a death spiral? If so, is it the result of bad management, bad engineers, or something else?

I've owned Tivo(s) since 2002 and have brand loyalty but it looks like they just gave up


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

Agreed! Not to mention what they have implemented over the last few years (short of more ads) has been, IMHO, cobbled together. I am sure we'll hear plenty from the "TiVo Defender" crowd going on about how NetFlix, YouTube, and ordering pizza from Dominos is real progress&#8230; but I have seen no real progress for years.

OTA is not an option for me, so when my subscriptions are up I may be migrating to Moxi.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

It's still kind of funny that nobody's really produced a better unit yet, either.

I would think the latest chipsets that make most of this possible cold be used to offer some "neato special effects" or even utilizing HD resolution in the user interface, but beyond that, what really is it you think it should do that it doesn't?

If the UI changed every couple of years, people would complain about it. Just look at Facebook.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

dswallow said:


> HD resolution in the user interface, but beyond that, what really is it you think it should do that it doesn't?


Well, an HD user interface capable of offering more info than 4 inch tall letters allow on an "hd" TiVo would be a start. But what about:

1.) Cooperative scheduling across multiple TiVo's. ReplayTV had this 5 years ago.

2.) How about some predictive text entry mechanism that would cut down on the 20 or 30 key presses it takes to enter a string in find and wishlists. Other devices have had this for over a decade.

3.) Streaming from one TiVo to another; as opposed to having to "copy" the program (which more and more cable providers are disallowing via the CCI byte).

4.) Show us what is going to record in the guide. Even Cable/Sat DVR's do this!

Hell&#8230; I'd be happy if they just fix the bugs that have been in there for years.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

From the stickied FAQ:


> *[aname=changes]What[/aname] changes has TiVo made to the software since release in 2007?*
> 
> Changes to the TivoHD since release include:
> 
> ...


All we've seen in the last year was a maintenance update. We've seen no new software "features" from TiVo since December, 2008, unless you count Blockbuster.

The current TiVo HD offers comparable CPU performance PII 233MHz, so there are limits to what they can do with it. It isn't fast enough to render a graphics-intensive interface in HD with acceptable responsiveness. Nor is it fast enough to support Adobe Flash applications or a web browser, as necessary to access much of the Internet content available.

TiVo is working on something, as they haven't cut their R&D spending. They've averaged $60 million/year in R&D over the past few years, and last quarter, they announced a further increase in R&D spending for 2010.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Indeed. Can't really imagine where that $60 mil a year is going. Moxi's budget is a fraction of that, and the result is a halfway decent, increasingly competitive product.

Tivo's really going to look antiquated if the Premiere is old tech and doesn't keep up with the other DVR and cablecard hardware of 2010.


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## mshurpik (Oct 18, 2005)

They've implemented a lot of new stuff like Netflix and HD, but they've stubbornly refused to change the interface. Some simple things like:

* Screensaver instead of reverting to Live TV.
* Specify exactly how many shows to keep on a season pass. (I see they've added options for 1-5 though.)
* A more granular option than "repeats and first run." How about specifying a particular season you may not have seen? 
* Likewise, when I had MSNBC, this thing would record the same episode of Hardball 3 times per day. Unusable.

* More than eight lines of menu text on an HD screen (how about fifty?)

* Some kind of awareness about what is going on in the world. Super Bowl? Academy Awards? Presidential address? Tivo is not going to remind you, and that's a stunning fail. 

* And finally, the 30-minute live loop should record ALL channels you may have visited in that time. There's no excuse after ten years of Tivo.


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## jcaldwe (Jan 31, 2008)

I agree also. Cover art would be nice with streaming music and the now playing list. Think boxee/apple tv but with a DVR also. Additionally, where are categories for the now playing list. I would love to have a kids category where all the kid programs are located and not filling up the now playing list. Just my 2cents.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

jcaldwe said:


> I would love to have a kids category where all the kid programs are located and not filling up the now playing list.


Isn't this already implemented by using the Kidzone feature?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Indeed. Can't really imagine where that $60 mil a year is going. Moxi's budget is a fraction of that, and the result is a halfway decent, increasingly competitive product.


really? Netflix streams HD directly to the TiVo while MOxi uses play on in only Netflix SD. Moxi has an HD interface but it gets dinged for the menu not being as intuitive as it could be.

so Moxi has sort of copied TiVo features and then enabled streaming and HD menu due to the fact it could make use of the newer chip sets since it was made after the TiVo HD.

All that aside, even with a lower price and ability to use low cost receivers in other rooms - Moxi did not sell even close to well enough to keep the company Digeo from being sold off. TiVo should emulate this?

A bunch of cool new features will sell to some of us on this forum but it is long proven that 800$ just for the hardware is not going to turn a profit for TiVo and even 299$ RETAIL price is not going to sell significnat new market share.

TiVo is in business to make a profit, not make your dream DVR. That is just the harsh reality.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo is in business to make a profit, not make your dream DVR. That is just the harsh reality.


Unfortunately, a harsher reality is that you can't just go stagnant for 2 years and expect existing customers to follow, and new ones to be attracted. Most people I know that use the word "TiVo" have never seen a TiVo. When I point that out to them their response is usually "same thing".

Fact is, unless we're talking geek, TiVo has little to compel the cable box user to come over to their side. It is still a low def interface on a hi def box, and indications of what a new interface may look like is ghastly. White text on a light blue background what were they thinking?!

TiVo used to be the Apple of DVR's in the sense that user interface and usability were king, and they clearly stood above the competition. Not so much anymore. Yes you can clearly put up a bunch of talking points about what TiVo does better, but they're mostly just that, talking points. And if you don't have a lot of time to delineate them, you will still get the response "same thing".

TiVo has no wow factor anymore, just a bunch of subtle differences and in fact, some major annoyances that the cable boxes are without.

My "gut" feeling is that decisions at TiVo are no longer being made by creative talent with love for the product, but instead by suits and bean counters put in place to go after that "profit" you mention. While this is sometimes necessary, it usually only delays the inevitable as it almost always comes with the loss of innovation and understanding of what made TiVo so great to begin with.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Yeah, I find it a bit funny that people think TiVo should be more like ReplayTV and Moxi... say what you want about them, business-wise they are bigger failures than TiVo. And TiVo needs to look at the bottom line.

I agree with complaints about the UI, and that the next model NEEDS to have a snazzy HD interface. Also, if they are serious about competing for the media player market, their music and video player interfaces HAVE to be better (shouldn't be hard, since they are virtually non-existent now).

Beyond that, I don't think any features they add will sell more units.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Moxi has an HD interface but it gets dinged for the menu not being as intuitive as it could be.


I find Moxi HD interface to be quite user friendly after you get use to it. I will take the ability to watch live tv while scheduling recordings, changing options and looking my EPG over Tivo intuitive interface anytime.

Oh speaking of innovation.. Did Tivo get a percentage of harddrive used figure yet?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

fatlard said:


> I find Moxi HD interface to be quite user friendly after you get use to it. I will take the ability to watch live tv while scheduling recordings, changing options and looking my EPG over Tivo intuitive interface anytime.
> 
> Oh speaking of innovation.. Did Tivo get a percentage of harddrive used figure yet?


I hear those two particular "suggestions" a lot, and truly just always can't help but laugh that someone might actually believe those would be really important or necessary for any reason.

The free space indicator is totally useless, and has little or no real meaning. The whole TiVo concept is not to present the user with a gruesome and manually managed environment for recording. Yes, one can abuse it to make it like one, but if you do that, you're simply missing the point. Go buy a VCR.

The innovation here is there's no need for a free space indicator at all. And that innovation has been around for quite some time.


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

dswallow said:


> I hear those two particular "suggestions" a lot, and truly just always can't help but laugh that someone might actually believe those would be really important or necessary for any reason.
> 
> The free space indicator is totally useless, and has little or no real meaning. The whole TiVo concept is not to present the user with a gruesome and manually managed environment for recording. Yes, one can abuse it to make it like one, but if you do that, you're simply missing the point. Go buy a VCR.
> 
> The innovation here is there's no need for a free space indicator at all. And that innovation has been around for quite some time.


A free space indicator is creates a gruesome and manually managed environment?

Live TV viewing is not a nice feature to have?

I guess objectivity is out the window when you blindly believe Tivo is the best.

You guys are starting to sound like Apple Fanboys.

It is kinda like this.. Someone asks.. are there Ads on Tivo.. then a fanboy stays.. yes there are ads..but I don't see them.. it does not bother me... Tivo Rocks! even with ads.

stop fooling yourself.


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## reubanks (Feb 19, 2006)

What I don't (personally) understand is why the fuss over the UI being SD.

Yes it would look nicer on a big screen, but I'm happy watching Serenity in 61" HighDef. I really don't care all that much if the "Now Playing" list is a little fuzzy. (and maybe they'll get around to it with either an update or on the Premier...)

Randy


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

MickeS said:


> Yeah, I find it a bit funny that people think TiVo should be more like ReplayTV and Moxi... say what you want about them, business-wise they are bigger failures than TiVo. And TiVo needs to look at the bottom line.


It should be pointed out that the majority of red ink in RePlayTV's bottom line was litigation and not the product or business model. Yes, they made the product decisions that invited the law suits, but the product was sound and had a large and profitably following. It just wasn't big enough to pay the lawyers as well.



> Beyond that, I don't think any features they add will sell more units.


If that's the case they are truly done then. But if they are creative enough I don't think that has to be the case.

They need to embrace their issues. The hard drive is definitely one of them. Sell expansion drives that work and are not tied to a single vendor with a product that has a dreadful reputation. Make upgrading easy plug n' play. Hell, screw the internal hard drive TiVo SERVER; all available tuners can cooperatively schedule to it!

Many folks don't have OTA, and just want their clearQAM channels without having to pay the additional outlet and cableCard fees. Map them.

Clean up the software and address the usability issues. People will embrace TiVo's features provided they don't have to wear out the batteries in their remote to use them. Allow season passes and wishlists to be set up and backed on the computer. In fact, multiple sets of them, to be loaded at any time. Similarly to setting up a harmony remote, provide a computer interface to quickly and easily make all settings, and return all results, then click one button to upload it to the TiVo.

Address the stupid "its all locked up in the box" problem. It is the 21st century. We have DRM, HDMI, HDCP, and other methods of content protection. Let technology be our friend and end the draconian way TiVo handles things. Hell TiVo could easily rule the whole house TV/Content market with compatible servers and clients (low end and high end), expand their lineup of products while leveraging their technology, and maybe even build a business model supporting VARs. But first they need to get rid of the paranoid "locked up" model that is no longer necessary (if it ever was).

There is so much that can be done here that would really push the "Wow! That's COOL" button. And that is what sells.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

reubanks said:


> What I don't (personally) understand is why the fuss over the UI being SD.
> 
> Yes it would look nicer on a big screen, but I'm happy watching Serenity in 61" HighDef. I really don't care all that much if the "Now Playing" list is a little fuzzy.


Its not about pretty, it is about usability. A wish List can't even show you the entire title of a movie; making for continuous button pushing to see what each entry is. Higher def interfaces will simply present more info like episode info within the list interface so that you don't have to repetitively drill down into more screens.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Doug,
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Those features are not necessary at all.

Still, like cup holders in a sports car that either get in the way or never get used in a car, they need to be there to take away an excuse that can prevent a sale. TiVo should include them as an option just to fill in the check box. You and I can ignore or turn them off and be happy and people who have to see them to be happy will be satisfied too. They won't use them once they get familiar with the DVR, but at least they will not have had a reason (no matter how silly that reason is) to not try the DVR in the first place.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I think TiVo just needs to offer hardware a step above the cable companies to draw those cable dvr users in.

It all starts with the basics. For the average user who is content with their cable dvr there are things they still aren't satisfied with for the most part. Most of them complain about lack of recording space. The Tivo HD offers the same amount of recording space as the original Series 1 did, but it is for HD instead of SD. The cable companies offer the same amount as the Tivo HD so one basic selling point could be to offer their basic unit with more hard drive space. 

It is too bad that the cable companies like Comcast don't just offer the Tivo HD as a cable box rental. If Fios offered the Tivo HD as a STB or I could buy retail, I probably would have been tempted to rent it from Fios versus buying it even more so if I paid full retail for it.


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## mmilton80 (Jul 28, 2005)

TiVo has also developed a partnership with Comcast. This may be the way to go for them (particularly since Comcast is going to become wickedly powerful with the potential NBC Universal merger).


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

solutionsetc said:


> There is so much that can be done here that would really push the "Wow! That's COOL" button. And that is what sells.


No, it doesn't. That's NOT what sells at all to the people that currently use cable DVRs.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

reubanks said:


> What I don't (personally) understand is why the fuss over the UI being SD.


Right now, there is waaay too much wasted space in the TiVo UI. Look at the TiVo Search interface and see how much more pleasant and efficient that is. That's what they could get if they used a HD UI.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

As much as I like the UI of Tivo, I must say the UI of Media Center is really growing on me and I am still using both on an SD set. I do like the cover art/screencaps for shows versus just a list of titles especially when it comes to movies. I also find I like browsing the Media Center recordings and video files better.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> As much as I like the UI of Tivo, I must say the UI of Media Center is really growing on me and I am still using both on an SD set. I do like the cover art/screencaps for shows versus just a list of titles especially when it comes to movies. I also find I like browsing the Media Center recordings and video files better.


I like Media Center UI too. A lot. I'd like it a tad better if the fonts were larger (or I was 30 years younger or my recliner was closer to the TV). Hmm, maybe I just need new glasses.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I don't know if you can change the font, but I thought there were custom skins out there you could use. They just won't work through extenders, but maybe I am thinking of something else entirely.

Looks like you just have the three options of standard, high contrast white, or high contrast black.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> really?


Yep, really. "halfway decent and increasingly competitive" isn't a glowing endorsement. But it is fair.



ZeoTiVo said:


> so Moxi has sort of copied TiVo features


VOD is a cost of entry at this point (cable, satellite, itunes, TVs, blu-ray players, etc). Is everybody now copying Tivo? Meh.



ZeoTiVo said:


> All that aside, even with a lower price and ability to use low cost receivers in other rooms - Moxi did not sell even close to well enough to keep the company Digeo from being sold off. TiVo should emulate this?


Err... emulate poor product sales and the company being sold off? No, but they're not showing any significant fruits of their annual R&D budgets, and that was my point. I'd blame Moxi's (lack of a) marketing budget sooner than I'd blame their R&D budget for sales problems.



ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo is in business to make a profit,


That would be nice. One can only hope someday.



ZeoTiVo said:


> not make your dream DVR. That is just the harsh reality.


Darn Tivo for not meeting my dreams! (shaking fist!)  This whole seemingly kneejerk reaction of a response seems more "harsh" than my actual post, oddly enough. It was a rather obvious statement about not seeing substantial results from their investments the last few years, and that a lesser company made fair progress with a much smaller budget. Except for the new data mining business, of course. A good chunk of the R&D was obviously thrown at that, and they're happy to pitch it.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

MickeS said:


> No, it doesn't. That's NOT what sells at all to the people that currently use cable DVRs.


So what's your point? TiVo needs to sell their DVR to people who already have one and see it as being provided for free with lifetime warranty from their cable co.? Sorry, that ship has sailed. TiVo is clearly for upscale/discerning customers which makes it all the more inexplicable why they no longer seem to be developing anything for that market.


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

I am sick of people complaining about TiVo being lackluster about technology. It set the precedent that no other firm can match or exceed in terms of "season pass" in the interface. Keep in mind something very important: TiVo doesn't want to reinvent the wheel every year. That angers people who just purchased hardware and are locked into a three year program subscription or even a lifetime subscription on that "antiquated" last year machine. In other words: perhaps a new device every 3-5 years would be in order - maybe - if important technological changes are available. Take for instance high def television receivers: first plasma, then lcd, was 60 hz, then 120, then 240, now with downloads from Netflix and such and then LED sets came out, and next: 3-D sets. If you just spent $3000 on a t.v. and you see 3-D is coming this Summer, wouldn't you be angered that you didn't wait? No, because you got your money's worth with what was available at the time. Quit brow beating TiVo and recommend it everywhere you go if you want TiVo to stay in business. It needs to sell as many machines and subscriptions now to fund future developments. Case closed.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fatlard said:


> I guess objectivity is out the window when you blindly believe Tivo is the best.
> 
> You guys are starting to sound like Apple Fanboys.


really that is all you have as a counter


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> It was a rather obvious statement about not seeing substantial results from their investments the last few years, and that a lesser company made fair progress with a much smaller budget. Except for the new data mining business, of course. A good chunk of the R&D was obviously thrown at that, and they're happy to pitch it.


and now you know how the R&D budget was allocated at TiVo? Well if that is truly the case then I would be happy to listen.
I think though that you do not and will throw out whatever to make your argument sound better. tru2way likely costs a good bit and is not something TiVo can just show results of on its own. This lull happened before when TiVo was dealing with cable cards and while doing R&D on them still had to wait for everyone to be ready before they could put it out there.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Right now, there is waaay too much wasted space in the TiVo UI. Look at the TiVo Search interface and see how much more pleasant and efficient that is. That's what they could get if they used a HD UI.


TiVo does need an HD UI but the TiVo HD chip set is not really ready to support such. Streaming is in the same boat. It looks like a new box with a newer chip set is what Tivo needs to get out right now.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo does need an HD UI but the TiVo HD chip set is not really ready to support such. Streaming is in the same boat. It looks like a new box with a newer chip set is what Tivo needs to get out right now.


This.

Even if the Premiere units only have a new chip set, HD UI, and supports flash, I'd say WoW. Imagine the speed of the box compared to now... I would think all the tools are available and that we will see it soon, if not this box release then certainly the next one.


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

^^^Agree. I would love to see a faster processor. However, having said that, TIVO does exactly what I bought it for. It records TV. I couldn't care less about the UI. The next thing will be skins or themes or ...


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mchief said:


> ^^^Agree. I would love to see a faster processor. However, having said that, TIVO does exactly what I bought it for. It records TV. I couldn't care less about the UI. The next thing will be skins or themes or ...


:up:


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo does need an HD UI but the TiVo HD chip set is not really ready to support such. Streaming is in the same boat. It looks like a new box with a newer chip set is what Tivo needs to get out right now.


Oh, I agree. I have no illusions about a new UI being pushed out to older TiVos. In fact, I hope they don't.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I definitely agree. I don't have a problem with Tivo designing a new UI and I would be curious to see what the final product looks like. Personally though a new UI wouldn't make me buy additional TiVos when I sell 2 of mine here in the next month or so. It might bring in people who have complained or skipped TiVo due to the UI which I would think aren't that many.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

steve614 said:


> Isn't this already implemented by using the Kidzone feature?


No. While the Kidzone play list only includes allowed content, the normal play list has all the programming, including the programming allowed on the Kidzone list. What is in question is an "AdultZone" as it were, which excludes Kidzone content.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mshurpik said:


> * Specify exactly how many shows to keep on a season pass. (I see they've added options for 1-5 though.)...
> * And finally, the 30-minute live loop should record ALL channels you may have visited in that time. There's no excuse after ten years of Tivo.


Huh what? The # of shows to keep is in the series 1.. (i.e. it's effectively ALWAYS been there, but I always change mine to 'all episodes', and in fact missed some of a series last year since I forgot to change it..)

It would be SO CONFUSING to the vast majority of users for the buffer to persist across channel changes.

Heck, it's confused some people *here* when they have been rewound in the live buffer, and the tuner(s) are recording.. (i.e. they have *insisted* there were 3 tuners in the Tivo..)


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

dswallow said:


> The free space indicator is totally useless, and has little or no real meaning. The whole TiVo concept is not to present the user with a gruesome and manually managed environment for recording. Yes, one can abuse it to make it like one, but if you do that, you're simply missing the point. Go buy a VCR.
> 
> The innovation here is there's no need for a free space indicator at all. And that innovation has been around for quite some time.


That is absolutely false.

I want to record shows. I want to know how much space there is. I want the Tivo to record independent of time-slot.

There's no reason that those couldn't all be true.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mchief said:


> ^^^Agree. I would love to see a faster processor. However, having said that, TIVO does exactly what I bought it for. It records TV. I couldn't care less about the UI.


Umm, you *do* care about the UI. The UI is what allows you to "record TV" and watch that recorded TV.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

mattack said:


> Umm, you *do* care about the UI. The UI is what allows you to "record TV" and watch that recorded TV.


I think what he is saying is the current ui is functional as is and works.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

classicsat said:


> No. While the Kidzone play list only includes allowed content, the normal play list has all the programming, including the programming allowed on the Kidzone list. What is in question is an "AdultZone" as it were, which excludes Kidzone content.


Ah, good to know. For some reason, I thought the content was kept separate between the playlists.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> and now you know how the R&D budget was allocated at TiVo? Well if that is truly the case then I would be happy to listen.
> I think though that you do not and will throw out whatever to make your argument sound better.


Now that just sounds like arguing for argument's sake. Yes, I do believe "a good chunk" of R&D went into their stats business. It's certainly not something that would be funded on a bake sale budget and thrown together over a weekend. One doesn't need special insight to get this.

As for "whatever makes my argument sound better", I'm not saying anything particularly objectionable, you just seem to be reacting to what you see as slights at Tivo. Relax and count to 10.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

mattack said:


> That is absolutely false.
> 
> I want to record shows. I want to know how much space there is. I want the Tivo to record independent of time-slot.
> 
> There's no reason that those couldn't all be true.


There is always zero free space. That's the beauty of it. No wasted space, every bit of space is a recording. If you delete a recording it disappears from the list, but is still there on the hard drive and will be erased a few minutes before it gets overwritten by a new recording. In this setup you get to record shows, space will be taken from things you don't care about as needed, and it is independent of time slot.

Still TiVo needs to give people like you a pretty chart. They should not have to explain why it is meaningless, they should just provide it. Those of us who are willing to let it manage space automatically can ignore the chart.

For users who are totally unwilling to allow the DVR to manage itself, and wish to micromanage every aspect of what it does themselves, there will be value in a chart. So TiVo should provide it for you.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> Still TiVo needs to give people like you a pretty chart. They should not have to explain why it is meaningless, they should just provide it. Those of us who are willing to let it manage space automatically can ignore the chart.
> 
> For users who are totally unwilling to allow the DVR to manage itself, and wish to micromanage every aspect of what it does themselves, there will be value in a chart. So TiVo should provide it for you.


+1

A free space indicator is a feature that some demand regardless of its merit. Many simply refuse to buy a DVR without that feature. Even if TiVo feels the feature is worthless (as many TiVo users do), they should include it for *marketing reasons*.

One button press on the NPL could display a bar or pie graph that breaks down the capacity by user recordings, Suggestions, Recently Deleted, and free space (if any). There should be some indication of "Space for new user recordings" that totals the capacity of Suggestions, Recently Deleted, and free space (if any).


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## urwathrtz (Jan 18, 2008)

innocentfreak said:


> I definitely agree. I don't have a problem with Tivo designing a new UI and I would be curious to see what the final product looks like. Personally though a new UI wouldn't make me buy additional TiVos when I sell 2 of mine here in the next month or so. It might bring in people who have complained or skipped TiVo due to the UI which I would think aren't that many.


A new UI would be great, been looking at the same one since 2002. I just don't want to have to buy a new box to get it. Convinced the wife to let me buy the HD a couple of years ago. I should start wearing her down now, so that when the new box comes out she'll say "OK, just buy the damn thing and shut up about it already."


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

bkdtv said:


> +1
> 
> A free space indicator is a feature that some demand regardless of its merit. Many simply refuse to buy a DVR without that feature. Even if TiVo feels the feature is worthless (as many TiVo users do), they should include it for *marketing reasons*.
> 
> One button press on the NPL could display a bar or pie graph that breaks down the capacity by user recordings, Suggestions, Recently Deleted, and free space (if any). There should be some indication of "Space for new user recordings" that totals the capacity of Suggestions, Recently Deleted, and free space (if any).


Well said.


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## oosik77 (Nov 22, 1999)

CuriousMark said:


> Well said.


Ditto! Personally just seeing how many items are in "recently deleted" and "suggestions" tells me what I need to know so I don't care if they add it BUT if the lack of such a feature keeps people from buying then by all means add it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Now that just sounds like arguing for argument's sake. Yes, I do believe "a good chunk" of R&D went into their stats business. It's certainly not something that would be funded on a bake sale budget and thrown together over a weekend. One doesn't need special insight to get this.
> 
> As for "whatever makes my argument sound better", I'm not saying anything particularly objectionable, you just seem to be reacting to what you see as slights at Tivo. Relax and count to 10.


I am not reacting to any slights
I am reacting to you acting like you know how the R&D budget looks. I do not know how it pans out and niether do you. 
So yes saying a good chunk is just kind of meaningless. Heck I could say it likely supports itself anyway since TiVo makes money off the data. But again, I have no idea if that is true either.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I am not reacting to any slights
> I am reacting to you acting like you know how the R&D budget looks. I do not know how it pans out and niether do you.
> So yes saying a good chunk is just kind of meaningless. Heck I could say it likely supports itself anyway since TiVo makes money off the data. But again, I have no idea if that is true either.


  I don't have to see balance sheets to know they've spent R&D on their data mining business anymore than you need to see them regarding tru2way. They're both "duh, obvious" statements. Stop overreacting and move on.


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## jimerb (Apr 17, 2005)

I agree. Whatever happened to quarterly updates?

While I think it's still the best box on the market it sure does seem to be resting on it's laurels.

The search by time or search by channel list is a joke. The text is cut off and you can't even read it.

Sometimes I think they could make a project for a freshman programmer class in a university and could come up with more streamlined screens than they have for free.

How come I can't search for new shows that are on my favorite channels tonight? Isn't that the most common need out there when trying to figure out what to record? 

Some things seem like such a simple implementation are missing.

I'm actually holding off buying a second tivo because I'm waiting for a series 4 to come out.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Heck I could say it likely supports itself anyway since TiVo makes money off the data. But again, I have no idea if that is true either.


If you did rudimentary research you would find out that your statement is not true. If TiVo made any material amount from the data or advertisement, it would appear as separate entry on their SEC reports. It does not.
I don't have dog in this fight, but TiVo UI is not the reason people don't buy HD Tivo. I don't know first hand how bad cable companies DVRs are, but apparently they are not that bad considering that practically nobody buys TiVo or Moxi. Just imagine yourself as a new cable subscriber. You have a choice of having cable guy come to your house, bring cable co DVR, connect everything and you are ready to go or buy Tivo, commit to at least a year of Tivo service, order TA adapter and cable cards and wait for another truck roll. If you do a little research ahead of time, then you will be worrying that things will not work at your location, you will worry how intrusive the ads are and you will know that VOD is not supported. If you are not previous TiVo user - it is no brainer - you will go with Cable Co DVR (and numbers of installed cable co DVRs vs Tivo support my assumption).
Even if you are previous TiVo user, you will think hard before you buy TiVo.
For example in my case sometimes this year there will be new DirecTivo. Will I buy one? Depends if TiVo puts the WOW factor in it or not. I already have all the DVRs I need and they work great for me. Unless TiVo brings some innovations into the new design besides the cosmetic UI changes, I'm not interested in spending money for the access to Amazon downloads or Netflix (besides I can have similar capability with play-on if I wanted them too bad)


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

samo said:


> Unless TiVo brings some innovations into the new design besides the cosmetic UI changes, I'm not interested in spending money for the access to Amazon downloads or Netflix (besides I can have similar capability with play-on if I wanted them too bad)


Your whole post is very good; I just quoted the end so I can follow up on the "innovations" aspect.

TiVo expects people to *buy* their product and then continue to pay a *monthly fee* for it. Given that the alternatives don't have an up-front cost, TiVo must continually and visibly innovate in order to compete. WTF am I paying monthly for? Surely it's not for the guide data which costs TiVo pennies per month per subscriber.

Unfortunately, IMO TiVo is very sadly lacking in the "innovations" department.


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## treaty (Mar 1, 2006)

So... back to the OP here: "If so, is it the result of bad management"...

I don't know if the management is bad or not, but in my opinion there is a lack of vision there. The opportunity that was available to TiVO was for them to rule the living room from an entertainment aspect, something they clearly have not capitalized on.

I think they should have spent their money early on acquiring companies and IP that they could "plug in" to flesh out their offering. They should have bought Sling Media in it's infancy and developed that technology into the TiVo. They should have bought Sonos Inc. and developed a multi-room audio delivery system into the TiVo platform, etc.

Imagine the TiVo as being the central media hub for your whole house. If you want, it simply records TV for you. If you're looking for something more, you can purchase hardware expansions that allow for not only the current TiVo feature set, but also multi-room/multi location viewing and streaming music, etc. to every room in your house - heck it could even control your lights and and heating/cooling system... Home automation, all with the simplicity and ease that TiVo currently provides to Television viewing. i.e. Like Apple - "it just works".

That was the opportunity for TiVo... that was just never realized. In truth, no one has managed to claim the king of the living room throne yet...so maybe there's still hope for TiVo after all.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Even in it's best day, TiVo has not proven to be viable business in it's original business plan. So, you can add a lot of bells & whistles, and the TiVo will still be of interest to a limited base. In fact, the added features will likely drive it's price out of the reach of much of it's current base.

No, TiVo to survive will have to reinvent itself and that does not mean making a consumer electronics device that will do everything under the sun that everyone wants. They are probably best off making some gradual small improvements that will keep cost from skyrocketing but still keep it's base customers, and then trying to cater to advertising information needs and cable/satellite software needs until they can come up with a better idea.


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## treaty (Mar 1, 2006)

janry said:


> They are probably best off making some gradual small improvements that will keep cost from skyrocketing but still keep it's base customers, and then trying to cater to advertising information needs and cable/satellite software needs until they can come up with a better idea.


That sounds exactly like their current business model... hows that working out for them?


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

treaty said:


> That sounds exactly like their current business model... hows that working out for them?


Like I said:



janry said:


> ....until they can come up with a better idea.


This keeps them in business for now and until they come up with the better idea.


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## treaty (Mar 1, 2006)

janry said:


> Like I said:
> 
> This keeps them in business for now and until they come up with the better idea.


Like I said: lack of vision.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

treaty said:


> Like I said: lack of vision.


So, what vision do you have. A central media hub? Wouldn't be that difficult, but there isn't enough of a market for it. They've already proven enough people don't want to spend the money for such video devices and really, a known consumer electronics manufacturer would be the likely supplier for such but there is a reason they aren't getting into it.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I would say some of the companies are getting into it though. Look at the RVU alliance for example, where you can pretty much set up a central hub and any device in the alliance will be able to access that content.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Isn't RVU Alliance led by a content provider (DirectTV)? TiVo is somewhat handcuffed by the content providers since they can set the copy protect flags. 

I have built my own limited video distribution system with a TiVo HD but with the movies locked by Comcast makes the content more limited than I'd like.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I don't have to see balance sheets to know they've spent R&D on their data mining business anymore than you need to see them regarding tru2way. They're both "duh, obvious" statements. Stop overreacting and move on.


the original statement was "significant chunk" - since we are talking tens of millions of dollars I though such a statement should be challanged. So anyone can backpedal to "they spent some money" and of course they did. But lets not forget the original opinion that the R&D on rating ads was taking significantly from other R&D which is completely unknown.



samo said:


> If you did rudimentary research you would find out that your statement is not true. If TiVo made any material amount from the data or advertisement, it would appear as separate entry on their SEC reports. It does not.


yes Samo we know that, as you have pointed it out before. What is unknown is how much of the R&D budget is on the ad rating that TiVo does. is that also a small part of the R&D budget and thus covered by the small amount of revenue or is it a "significant chunk" of the R&D budget. That is the unknown data in this.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

treaty said:


> So... back to the OP here: "If so, is it the result of bad management"...
> 
> I think they should have spent their money early on acquiring companies and IP that they could "plug in" to flesh out their offering. They should have bought Sling Media in it's infancy and developed that technology into the TiVo. They should have bought Sonos Inc. and developed a multi-room audio delivery system into the TiVo platform, etc.
> 
> That was the opportunity for TiVo... that was just never realized. In truth, no one has managed to claim the king of the living room throne yet...so maybe there's still hope for TiVo after all.





janry said:


> Even in it's best day, TiVo has not proven to be viable business in it's original business plan. So, you can add a lot of bells & whistles, and the TiVo will still be of interest to a limited base. In fact, the added features will likely drive it's price out of the reach of much of it's current base.
> 
> No, TiVo to survive will have to reinvent itself and that does not mean making a consumer electronics device that will do everything under the sun that everyone wants. They are probably best off making some gradual small improvements that will keep cost from skyrocketing but still keep it's base customers, and then trying to cater to advertising information needs and cable/satellite software needs until they can come up with a better idea.


this is the double edge sword TiVo faces. the broad market is not looking to spend a lot of money for a whole media system. The concept above could be and is done with HTPC but avaerage person finds that too complicated. Sadly many average consumers find the TiVo too complicated to hook up to broadband and install software on the PC etc.. TiVo also faces the chip problem - to keep costs down it can not get custom or early runs of chips from Broadcom. It designs to the limit of the chip and a cheap CPU and memory. 
The early radical thing TiVo did was to innovate the technique for recording *analog* signals to the hard drive with cheap off the shelf hardware. Digital did that advantage in as now you can lay the digital stream right on the hard drive with cheap off the shelf hardware and no patent needed. That was the big idea in the Moxi - lets make a purely digital play and make the design of the DVR way easier.
TiVo has had a very hard time growing up past its early great idea for analog recording. The mainstream cheaper chipsets from broadcom are just starting to get functionality like flash that will allow TiVo to step up the features and look and feel. It will not be a monumental leap though as cost is still a distinct factor reigning in any maker of 3rd party DVRs. So TiVo failed to innovate early enough in digital recording and ended up at the hard end of the FCC and cable cards that are not 2 way. It now goes through the same pain with tru2way. Streaming and better whole house delivery of media both visual and audio would have given them a route to go while the digital untangled itself but at what cost. I would pay more for such features but I am not the average DVR consumer who hassles over hooking up the network to my DVR.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

treaty said:


> That sounds exactly like their current business model... hows that working out for them?


better than replay and Digeo worked out


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> Nor is it fast enough to support Adobe Flash applications


That last thing Tivo needs is that steaming pile of crap tacked on.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ..I would pay more for such features but I am not the average DVR consumer who hassles over hooking up the network to my DVR.


Yep, we are a select group. We are biased towards technology. But, we are not typical. I am over 50 as are most of the people I socialize with. Most of us have plenty of disposable income, but very few of the people of this age group want or understand this technology. Younger people may want and understand it (but still I bet a minority of their age group), but they don't as often have the disposable financial resources.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

mshurpik said:


> * Some kind of awareness about what is going on in the world. Super Bowl? Academy Awards? Presidential address? Tivo is not going to remind you, and that's a stunning fail.


They used to do this several years ago with the "Showcase" feature... It would inform you of new and returning series premieres, special TV events, listings of series premieres at the beginning of every TV season, etc. They slowly phased it out and the "TiVo Showcase" is now just advertising space.


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

Tivo is almost dead IMHO and is probably just resting on it's patents. The Xbox360/PS3 media features are sooo much better. In an age when a 12 year old can hook an Xbox 360 up to a home network in 1 afternoon and stream all formats of movies and music from his PC.. a $250 box with a monthly subscription that is full of annoying ads seems to me to be a huge FAIL.

Don't get me wrong, Tivo currently has some neat features, and recording live TV it is still the best at.. but it cannot compete hardware wise with an Xbox 360. Plus it's considered legacy hardware or even unknown by the next generation of kids who cannot even understand it's use. I mean, why not just download your show or show's season without commercials and restrictions or just watch it online? And without the next generation.. it will quickly die.

I think that is why Tivo is focusing more on becoming the cable companies DVR. It will allow Tivo to live awhile longer till it becomes increasingly obvious that it is as old school as a VCR is now, but just more annoying with ads.


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## Mgalin (Jan 7, 2002)

I've owned several Tivo's over the years, all the way back to 1999.. I'm a geek and a tivo fanboy for years.. I'll continue to happily pay a premium for it.. For now, because generally, the experience and the UI are stupid proof.. Especially for OTHERS in my family. . But i'll tell you what changes the game in my mind.. 

1 DVR for the house.. 1 Media hub, multiple view only devices.. Sorry, two tuners isn't going to cut it anymore. This was OK in 2002, but they gotta step up the offering to compete with U-Verse.. I have weekly fights with my wife on stuff that is missed.. that forces me down the Hulu route. And don't you dare tell me to get another tivo, pay for subscription, cable cards and the lack of collaborative scheduling. 

Conflict management SUCKS. We need visual representation of conflicts, on the guide. Like every cable other DVR. 

Streaming - I'm a big PyTivo user... If bluray players can stream content off UPNP, DLNA, Bonjour shares why can't Tivo.. Streambaby, Sorta.. the framework is there.. Poor execution.. 

I really don't give a crap about Youtube, Podcasts and Weather.. I have a Pc for that, it's a better experience there. Everyone who's got a Tivo probably has a laptop in their lap anyway. 

Slingbox - Echostar is building slingboxes into their DVR's.. Crap... Cmon Tivo! You got the smart people working there to learn how to placeshift! Hulu wont' be free forever. 

Many of us have gotten really pissed off having to pay a couple hundred bucks to MOVE our lifetime subscription to upgrade hardware.. I did it for the S2 and the HD.. If you want people to pay for it and become profitable, you HAVE to differentiate from Cable. DVD/BluRay will be around for the concieveable future.. So why leave it up to those boxes to do this netflix/amazon thing! tivo making enough money on it? I'd assume probably not! 

I know all of you are going to flame me and say, get off the Tivo island and get a Media Center box... well.. Still, Tivo is still the easiest to use and is stupid proof! And i really don't want to patch my Tivo on a monthly basis and reboot it weekly.. so...

Let the flames begin!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Mgalin said:


> I have weekly fights with my wife on stuff that is missed.. that forces me down the Hulu route. And don't you dare tell me to get another tivo, pay for subscription, cable cards and the lack of collaborative scheduling.


 so two tuners is not enough but the only solution you will take is a 4 tuner in one box TiVo? Do you think they will do that for the same price as a two tuner? Is sticking to just one DVR of any sort really worth the fights? heck stick a tuner card in the PC you watch Hulu on and record some shows with media center. Keep it simple and it will work just fine. 


> Conflict management SUCKS. We need visual representation of conflicts, on the guide. Like every cable other DVR.


 I have written TiVo on this one - this is likely the single biggest improvement they could make on a TiVo


> Streaming - I'm a big PyTivo user... If bluray players can stream content off UPNP, DLNA, Bonjour shares why can't Tivo.. Streambaby, Sorta.. the framework is there.. Poor execution..


 second biggest improvement would be streaming of any show to or form a TiVo DVR.


> Many of us have gotten really pissed off having to pay a couple hundred bucks to MOVE our lifetime subscription to upgrade hardware..


 you have been around long enough to know TiVo makes no money on the hardware.


> DVD/BluRay will be around for the concieveable future.. So why leave it up to those boxes to do this netflix/amazon thing! tivo making enough money on it? I'd assume probably not!
> 
> I know all of you are going to flame me and say, get off the Tivo island and get a Media Center box... well.. Still, Tivo is still the easiest to use and is stupid proof! And i really don't want to patch my Tivo on a monthly basis and reboot it weekly.. so...
> 
> Let the flames begin!


well not sure about the netflix amazon thing - Tivo does do that - do you wnat them to stop it?

and actually the newly configured Moxi with 3 room vieiwng and ability to record 3 things sounds like it is a perfect fit for you. the Moxi can also use play-on add in to display Hulu on your TV screen


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I agree with the above posters about the lack of recording/conflict info in the guide. I don't really use the guide much, but when I do it would be great to have that. It's an odd omission by TiVo, IMO. Though I would refuse to call it "innovation" to put it in there, it's something that should have been added years ago.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> the original statement was "significant chunk" - since we are talking tens of millions of dollars I though such a statement should be challanged. So anyone can backpedal to "they spent some money" and of course they did. But lets not forget the original opinion that the R&D on rating ads was taking significantly from other R&D which is completely unknown.


a) I said a "good chunk". b) I didn't say the data mining was taking away from other R&D. Trying to parse words into a silly argument over what a "good chunk" means is bad enough. You don't need to argue things I didn't say to boot. Like I said, relax and move on.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so two tuners is not enough but the only solution you will take is a 4 tuner in one box TiVo? Do you think they will do that for the same price as a two tuner? Is sticking to just one DVR of any sort really worth the fights? heck stick a tuner card in the PC you watch Hulu on and record some shows with media center. Keep it simple and it will work just fine.


I think if the price was reasonable say 499 like they marked the XL down to, it would be perfect. I would pay 499 for a 4 tuner TiVo with 1TB or 1.5TB drive. This would be about 80% or so of the cost of buying two Tivo HDs at least it was back when they were $300.

The question after that would be would I get a 2 tuner TiVo for the second room or a second 4 tuner. Most likely I would go with the 4 tuner. Either way at this point I am dropping one TiVo so they wouldn't lose a sale from me.


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## Mgalin (Jan 7, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so two tuners is not enough but the only solution you will take is a 4 tuner in one box TiVo? Do you think they will do that for the same price as a two tuner? Is sticking to just one DVR of any sort really worth the fights? heck stick a tuner card in the PC you watch Hulu on and record some shows with media center. Keep it simple and it will work just fine.
> I have written TiVo on this one - this is likely the single biggest improvement they could make on a TiVo
> second biggest improvement would be streaming of any show to or form a TiVo DVR.
> you have been around long enough to know TiVo makes no money on the hardware.
> ...


I'm just suggesting that while the integration with Amazon or Netflix is cute, i don't think it's really a necessary part of their business model..

If the Tivo streamed well, i'd set up a 4 tuner Media center box.. hell. If i could get a second tivoHD and not pay subscription and for 2 more cable cards , and collaborative scheduling. i'd throw down 300-400$ in a heartbeat. Guess that's asking alot..

My workaround now, is PyTivo and Usenet/NZBs.. Ya know for legally downloadable content. *grin*..


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

CuriousMark said:


> For users who are totally unwilling to allow the DVR to manage itself


Ah, but see Tivo can't manage itself. There is a program type between "save until I delete" and suggestions - guaranteed suggestions, or season passes to be deleted first that would be very useful for lower priority shows I want to ensure are recorded *if* I have free space, but they should also be deleted first, before other season passes I may have.

In leu of that, give me a @^$#% free space indicator - make it a backdoor like the 30 second skip but for the love of god just throw the damn free space indicator in there already 

and people complain about Apple trying to "boss you around"....


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DocNo said:


> In leu of that, give me a @^$#% free space indicator


My TiVo has a free space indicator. It's that number next to the Suggestions folder.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

...or Recently Deleted, if you don't use Suggestions.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Or you can also fire up something like KMTTG where it will give you an estimate of how much space is used.


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> Agreed! Not to mention what they have
> OTA is not an option for me, so when my subscriptions are up I may be migrating to Moxi.


Moxi is crap its just like the series3 it does not have video inputs so it only works with cable/ant No satellite.:down:


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## RayChuang88 (Sep 5, 2002)

In my humble opinion, don't expect radical changes with the interface on the new TiVo, except maybe some usability enhancements and possibly a full HD display if you've connected the TiVo to an HDTV set. TiVo does *NOT* want to confuse users to no end with an all-new interface, which results in no end of complaints from _current_ TiVo users (especially the enthusiast crowd here!).

I fervently hope that the current mCard-type CableCARDs provided by cable operators _will_ work with the new TiVo box, though. I don't want to wait for the cable operators to create a new mCard CableCARD that works specifically with the new TiVo box--a change that could take _months_ to implement.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> My TiVo has a free space indicator. It's that number next to the Suggestions folder.


 That's not a free space indicator. But hey, if you are fine with a half-assed solution, knock yourself out.

I sure hope March has something significant or I'm moving on


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

This an old video Engadget HD has up of a potential new UI for the Tivo. Potential new TiVo UI Shown


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

solutionsetc said:


> Well, an HD user interface capable of offering more info than 4 inch tall letters allow on an "hd" TiVo would be a start. But what about:
> 
> 1.) Cooperative scheduling across multiple TiVo's. ReplayTV had this 5 years ago.
> ...snip...


IIRC, Replay owns the patent on this one...


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## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> This an old video Engadget HD has up of a potential new UI for the Tivo. Potential new TiVo UI Shown


Awesome! Advertisement free new HD interfaces!


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## bywi (May 26, 2004)

I agree with much of the sentiment expressed in this thread.

TiVo over the years has been a mostly enjoyable experience. Thank you TiVo.

More than any previous generation we are in a consumer age. We pay for devices that allow us to consume content, with some of that being pay content while most of it is advertising. We consume media like we consume raw natural resources, eager and without enough caution. Today's mass media has a small set of owners and dictators, so far as programming is concerned.

And there are devices like Tivo which are built and sold to consumers in this consumer market. Sure you can fast forward through your advertising, but oh, hey, yeah we see that. How about an ad on top of the advertising you're fast forwarding through. After all we're bringing you this great program description and a Tivo-0 animation that will totally make all your friends smile if you build a time machine and take them back five years.

Sarcasm aside, I grew impatient with cable and Tivo. They each have their own problems but they will always be married to each other, even if cable got the house, the car, the golf clubs AND the vacation house in Italy.

To the fans: Most TV shows nowadays are posted to the internet within 24 hours of being broadcast. If you can't live without your 2am airings of <insert old show name here> then perhaps you should move to Tijuana with a dvd collection and live out your days in pure bliss. If you're not living in a city with HD OTA programming and rely on cable to bring you local news then you deserve the epically slow funeral Tivo will descramble for you. But don't expect to be able to burn it to dvd.

Returning to the search engines a month ago I found that really nothing had changed with Tivo's developer API. You still couldn't stream video or otherwise make use of your machine's full capabilities. As another poster pointed out, indeed yes there still isn't a disk space meter--wow! I remember that being talked about like three years ago!

So, seeing how it's been almost a year since I had cable, and in the mean time was only transferring videos to Tivo and using Netflix, I realized it was time for this retail alien to leave my living room. The last of my tivo mohicans is now on ebay and any price it fetches will be better than the price it fetches 6 months from now.

DO this:
search for boxee
install boxee
connect your computer via hdmi/dvi to your tv. if via dvi, run audio cable from your miniplug stereo out (dvi doesn't carry audio)
- or -
buy the boxee box when it is released (shortly)
THEN
enjoy netflix
enjoy a beautiful but modern user interface, rich with social media features
enjoy hundreds if not thousands of other "channels" (apps) people like you have created for music, videos and really interesting stuff you might never have found otherwise.
enjoy custom rss feeds of videos
enjoy adult content "youtubes"
enjoy a minimum of advertising
enjoy watching your own videos, listening to your own music, seeing artwork for both gathered and displayed intelligently
AND
be happy you got rid of your tivo while someone still wanted it.

Farewell, and good luck gentlemen.


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