# Replacing the hard drive on a Premiere XL4.



## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

If/when the hard drive fails on the Premiere XL4, can I just replace the hard drive, and will it be as good as new? The recordings will be gone, but if I just install the replacement hard drive, can I just turn on the Tivo and it will start up?

Also, can I watch live TV after the hard drive fails?

I read through this thread:

Hard Drive Recommendation

One recommendation was a Western Digital Red:

https://www.amazon.com/Red-3TB-Hard...5733&sr=8-1&keywords=western+digital+red&th=1

But someone else said WD Purple.

But then someone else said don't do Purple, do Red.

Thoughts?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

You cannot just swap out the internal drive with a blank one on a Premiere. It does not have the ability to format it. You would need to have an image placed on it beforehand.

The recommended drive is a WD Red (not Pro Red, or 7200+ RPM)... Up to 8 TB can be used fully. There has been a few who had success with a purple, but mostly its favorable to a red.

The programs to use are DVRBars (Windows program) and MFSTools 3.2 (bootable CD, you burn it yourself from the ISO file).

If the drive has gone bad, errors, etc. You cannot even use it to do anything, until its replaced. If it has not yet gone bad, you can back it up and put it on a new drive, not used because Tivo is pretty picky. If it has gone bad and cannot retrieve an image, you can get it from @ggieseke.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ThAbtO said:


> You cannot just swap out the internal drive with a blank one on a Premiere. It does not have the ability to format it. You would need to have an image placed on it beforehand.
> 
> The recommended drive is a WD Red (not Pro Red, or 7200+ RPM)... Up to 8 TB can be used fully. There has been a few who had success with a purple, but mostly its favorable to a red.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all of the responses.

Once I have the hard drive, how do I burn the image to it?

Do I have to install the new WD Red into the 2nd bay of my desktop, then place the ISO file on it?

How do I create the ISO file?

Also, if I back up my current recordings on the new WD Red, then won't it become "used"?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

The ISO file is of MFSTools 3.2, that you burn to a CD and boot from it with only the Tivo and/or Red blank drive attached.

MFSTools can backup/restore everything even shows, but you want to store them on a separate PC/Mac drive after its been downloaded from the Tivo, then transfer back after the new drive is working in the Tivo, Tivo does not use the same file system as a PC or Mac. 

The image file of a Tivo is not a .ISO. What happens is, you do need to connect the drives to a computer. However, your computer would think the drive is blank and will attempt/ask to format it, DO Not. IT WILL ERASE The Tivo drive. The programs (DVRBars, MFSTools 3.2) will be able to recognize the Tivo drive and can put the image (either you backed it up or from someone's image file) to the new drive (which does not require format or preparing).


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ThAbtO said:


> MFSTools can backup/restore everything even shows, but you want to store them on a separate PC/Mac drive after its been downloaded from the Tivo, then transfer back after the new drive is working in the Tivo, Tivo does not use the same file system as a PC or Mac.


How do I transfer the shows to the new drive, after it is working in the Tivo?

Would I have to remove the drive from the Tivo, connect it to the PC, and use MFSTools to transfer shows onto it?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Shows can be transferred back and forth from Tivo to PC with programs like KMTTG and PyTivo. The Tivo drive stays connected to the Tivo and network, transfers are done over the network as regular files would. Unless the shows are copy-protected which cannot be transferred.
PyTivo (or PyTivo Desktop) has a server function which allows transfers back. 

I use this to transfer to PC, edit out commercials and store or send back to Tivo. 

MFSTools does things differently. Backups the whole drive and can restore to another. There basically is no real files on Tivo, but its encoded in its own way, and transfers decode it to real files for transfers.(so to speak)


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## comdoc8 (Nov 15, 2018)

My Premiere HD has begun making noises. Presumably needs to be replaced. Found the 1 TB Red for $59.93 here: Welcome to NextWarehouse.com


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

1TB is the smallest you can put into the XL4.


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## comdoc8 (Nov 15, 2018)

Thanks ThAbtO. This is what I'll use due to budget constraints. These were helpful:

Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions - with all-in-one jmfs Live CD


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks for the video. This will be helpful.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ThAbtO said:


> Shows can be transferred back and forth from Tivo to PC with programs like KMTTG and PyTivo. The Tivo drive stays connected to the Tivo and network, transfers are done over the network as regular files would. Unless the shows are copy-protected which cannot be transferred.
> PyTivo (or PyTivo Desktop) has a server function which allows transfers back.
> 
> I use this to transfer to PC, edit out commercials and store or send back to Tivo.
> ...


Can I use PyTivo to extract shows from my current drive, and transfer them to the new hard drive?

Or does PyTivo only work in transferring them back to the current hard drive?

Also, do either PyTivo or MFSTools remove copy-protection? I once used EaseFab to remove it on a SuperBowl recording.

But I'm hoping that if PyTivo or MFSTools can also do it, I can use the same software to extract the shows (or back up the hard drive, in the case of MFSTool) first.

Will MFStools tell me the image size size, before creating the backup of my hard drive?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

PyTivo is used to download shows through your network from the Tivo (with drive running) to your PC. It does not extract.

MFSTools is a program used to backup and restore Tivo drives, which need to be connected to the PC.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ThAbtO said:


> PyTivo is used to download shows through your network from the Tivo (with drive running) to your PC. It does not extract.
> 
> MFSTools is a program used to backup and restore Tivo drives, which need to be connected to the PC.


Sorry, I meant download, and not transfer. But I can use PyTivo to download it from one drive, and restore it on the new drive (once it's in the Tivo), correct?

So I can download some shows from the current drive using PyTivo; replace the physical drive with the new one; and transfer them onto the new one using PyTivo?

I'm just asking in case I don't want to back up the entire drive using MFSTools.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Bump.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

IF your existing drive still boots in the XL4, you can use pyTivo to copy individual recordings that aren't marked as copy-protected by your provider to a computer. After building a new drive from scratch with an image you could transfer them back to the TiVo. I used "IF" in all caps deliberately because it's rare that anyone would replace a working drive, and if it doesn't boot & run normally your recordings are already toast.

Copying the whole drive with MFSTools assumes that you have a working drive. It can't help you on an individual recording basis - it works on the whole drive or nothing.

We need to know if your existing drive is healthy, what software version it's running, if it has a valid subscription, and why you want to replace it. Details matter.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ggieseke said:


> IF your existing drive still boots in the XL4, you can use pyTivo to copy individual recordings that aren't marked as copy-protected by your provider to a computer. After building a new drive from scratch with an image you could transfer them back to the TiVo. I used "IF" in all caps deliberately because it's rare that anyone would replace a working drive, and if it doesn't boot & run normally your recordings are already toast.
> 
> Copying the whole drive with MFSTools assumes that you have a working drive. It can't help you on an individual recording basis - it works on the whole drive or nothing.
> 
> We need to know if your existing drive is healthy, what software version it's running, if it has a valid subscription, and why you want to replace it. Details matter.


I am using TE3. My existing drive is healthy. I have a valid subscription.

I want to back up some shows before my drive goes bad. If I have to back up the whole drive using MFSTools, I will. But I would prefer trying to back up only a few things.

Or, maybe I want to replace the drive BEFORE it goes bad.

So, could I copy some existing shows using pyTivo to an external hard drive; put the new drive in the Tivo; and copy the shows from the external hard drive, to the new drive, using pyTivo?


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

nuraman00 said:


> So, could I copy some existing shows using pyTivo to an external hard drive; put the new drive in the Tivo; and copy the shows from the external hard drive, to the new drive, using pyTivo?


Yes.


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## z1habanero (Dec 4, 2018)

I hate to jump onto someone elses problem but two days ago my XL4 Model TCD78250 died.

I have confirmed that it was the hard drive. The read/write heads were all bent up and one of the platters in the drive was all scratched up. I ordered a new drive and was going to see if I could swap out platters in the hard drive, but Western Digital changed the design from 3 platters to 2 platters. It was fun to try but there is nothing I can do at this point but install a new hdd in my Tivo.

I have a spare Windows 8? PC that I can set up for the new Tivo hdd. I am looking at the 8TB Western Digital WD80EFAX drive from Amazon. Will that hhd work well?
What else will I need?

After I replace the drive I plan on cloning the hard drive every year or so. I will customize my spare PC for that purpose.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

z1habanero said:


> I hate to jump onto someone elses problem but two days ago my XL4 Model TCD78250 died.
> 
> I have confirmed that it was the hard drive. The read/write heads were all bent up and one of the platters in the drive was all scratched up. I ordered a new drive and was going to see if I could swap out platters in the hard drive, but Western Digital changed the design from 3 platters to 2 platters. It was fun to try but there is nothing I can do at this point but install a new hdd in my Tivo.
> 
> ...


Pushing a Premiere beyond the 2TB limit that it was designed for is a complicated multi-stage project. The first barrier is that any OS prior to 20.3.8 won't even boot on a drive over 2TB. I can help you out there with a 758 DvrBARS image that's already running 20.4.1, but after that you would still have to follow jmbach's 8TB Premiere thread in the Upgrade forum to expand the image from 2TB to 8TB.

8TB Premiere

If you opened up the case on the new WD80EFAX to count the platters it's already ruined unless you have a clean room and specialized tools designed for drive recovery operations. Even then, most of the 8TB Reds were filled with helium and sealed at the factory. Remove even one screw and it's scrap metal.


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## z1habanero (Dec 4, 2018)

jmbach's 8TB Premiere thread is impressive! Sounds like one of the first steps is to pick up MFS Tools 3.2. It may be a bit more involved than I thought, but I will give it a shot.

I have had a few Tivos over the years and I figure it is about time to get a little more involved in the drives.

Before I opened the drive I could hear it wasn't working correctly when powered up. With the power off I could hear the heads flopping around if I tilted it. It was a 2TB WD20EURS. It was worth the $40 dollars I spent on a new drive, in the off chance I could get some of the programming off it and onto another drive.

From the sound of your post it gets involved once you go over the 2TB limit.

I included a photo of platter for whoever may be interested.


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## AndWhi (Dec 7, 2018)

ggieseke said:


> Pushing a Premiere beyond the 2TB limit that it was designed for is a complicated multi-stage project. The first barrier is that any OS prior to 20.3.8 won't even boot on a drive over 2TB. I can help you out there with a 758 DvrBARS image that's already running 20.4.1, but after that you would still have to follow jmbach's 8TB Premiere thread in the Upgrade forum to expand the image from 2TB to 8TB.


Okay, I think I could use some help. I have a Tivo Premiere TCD746320 (Lifetime) that has a bad hard drive. Since I saw a bunch of black friday deals, I picked up a 2TB WD Purple WD20PURZ as I thought it was better suited for DVR applications. However, I have yet to see anyone on the forum use a WD 'Purple' instead of a 'Red'. Now, I've found a copy of WINMFS but i'm finding out it's not compatible with Tivo Premiere's? I have already lost everything on the old drive, so i'm just looking for a clean install on my new 2TB drive. Who can point me in the right direction? WinMFS or do i need to download a copy of DvrBARS? Sorry to hijack this thread, but I figured it was related.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Restore the image with DvrBARS, then expand it into the full 2TB with jmfs 1.04 or MFSTools 3.2.

I don't have any personal experience with them, but several people have used Purple drives successfully.


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## bbauman99 (Nov 7, 2009)

ggieseke said:


> Pushing a Premiere beyond the 2TB limit that it was designed for is a complicated multi-stage project. The first barrier is that any OS prior to 20.3.8 won't even boot on a drive over 2TB. I can help you out there with a 758 DvrBARS image that's already running 20.4.1, but after that you would still have to follow jmbach's 8TB Premiere thread in the Upgrade forum to expand the image from 2TB to 8TB.
> 
> 8TB Premiere
> 
> If you opened up the case on the new WD80EFAX to count the platters it's already ruined unless you have a clean room and specialized tools designed for drive recovery operations. Even then, most of the 8TB Reds were filled with helium and sealed at the factory. Remove even one screw and it's scrap metal.


I want to expand to a 3 TB (WD red) drive. Could you supply the aforementioned 758 DvBARS image?

Also, to I still need to follow jmbach's 8TB procedure even though my disk is only 3TB?

Thanks.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

bbauman99 said:


> I want to expand to a 3 TB (WD red) drive. Could you supply the aforementioned 758 DvBARS image?
> 
> Also, to I still need to follow jmbach's 8TB procedure even though my disk is only 3TB?
> 
> Thanks.


Image sent.

For a 2TB to 3TB expansion, I would use the mfscopy command in MFS Tools. The rest of the steps in the 8TB thread wouldn't be necessary because the mfscopy command takes care of everything in one step (up to 4TB).


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ggieseke said:


> Pushing a Premiere beyond the 2TB limit that it was designed for is a complicated multi-stage project. The first barrier is that any OS prior to 20.3.8 won't even boot on a drive over 2TB. I can help you out there with a 758 DvrBARS image that's already running 20.4.1, but after that you would still have to follow jmbach's 8TB Premiere thread in the Upgrade forum to expand the image from 2TB to 8TB.
> 
> 8TB Premiere
> 
> If you opened up the case on the new WD80EFAX to count the platters it's already ruined unless you have a clean room and specialized tools designed for drive recovery operations. Even then, most of the 8TB Reds were filled with helium and sealed at the factory. Remove even one screw and it's scrap metal.


I started this thread last year.

I got side tracked and focused more on building a new PC, then other issues came up.

I'm re-visiting this topic of replacing my hard drive. I first need to try PyTivo though and back up a few shows that I want backed up.

If I were to get a new hard drive, I think a 3 TB one should be sufficient.

What exactly is this 758 DvrBARS image, and why do I need it? Do I need it if I were to use any size replacement hard drive?

Actually, what would you think is easier, copying my existing drive with MFSTools, and putting it on the new drive?

Or copying individual shows with PyTivo, and then copying them onto the new drive?

Or, are they about the same amount of work?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

nuraman00 said:


> What exactly is this 758 DvrBARS image, and why do I need it? Do I need it if I were to use any size replacement hard drive?


You would need to have an model matching image on a drive for the Premiere to work. You cannot just put in a blank drive and expect it to work with it. You can copy the existing drive provided it has no problems currently and you just want to expand the space, use MFSTools 3.x since DVRBars does not expand and you would need MFSTools anyway to expand (should you use a DVRBars image.)


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## Wigohwt (Jun 9, 2019)

nuraman00 said:


> If I were to get a new hard drive, I think a 3 TB one should be sufficient.


It's more practical to buy a 4TB WD Red HDD than a 3TB since you are using a 3.5" anyway, but your choice of course.
If your current HDD is healthy, you don't need a new image, just use the two commands below to copy and expand from your current HDD. See MFS Tools thread for Premiere.

Identify your sdX and sdY
*lsblk -o name,size,vendor*

Make copy up to 4TB (includes expand) for Premiere
Where sdX is the source (old) drive and sdY is the target (new) drive.
*mfscopy -ai /dev/sdX /dev/sdY*

Your TiVo system information now should show a recording capacity over 600 HD hours.

If your current HDD has failed or is failing, then there is another procedure.


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## bbauman99 (Nov 7, 2009)

ggieseke said:


> Image sent.
> 
> For a 2TB to 3TB expansion, I would use the mfscopy command in MFS Tools. The rest of the steps in the 8TB thread wouldn't be necessary because the mfscopy command takes care of everything in one step (up to 4TB).


Will this align partitions such that there aren't unnecessary read/write/seeks? Or do I need to do some magic to avoid this?

Do I need to disable the idle timer? (3TB WD red)?

Thanks for all of your help.

-- Bruce


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

bbauman99 said:


> Will this align partitions such that there aren't unnecessary read/write/seeks? Or do I need to do some magic to avoid this?
> 
> Do I need to disable the idle timer? (3TB WD red)?


MFS Tools aligns the partitions during the mfscopy command. Red drives don't have IntelliPark, so you don't need to disable anything.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

Wigohwt said:


> It's more practical to buy a 4TB WD Red HDD than a 3TB since you are using a 3.5" anyway, but your choice of course.
> If your current HDD is healthy, you don't need a new image, just use the two commands below to copy and expand from your current HDD. See MFS Tools thread for Premiere.
> 
> Identify your sdX and sdY
> ...


Thanks.

How do I connect the old drive and new drive at the same time?

The old one is in my Tivo.

Am I going to have to install the new one in my PC? I can do that because I have a desktop, but what do people without a desktop do?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

On a desktop, you use 2 available SATA ports. On laptop, it would be through a USB-to-SATA adapter and would need 2 -or- a 2 port SATA USB dock.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ThAbtO said:


> On a desktop, you use 2 available SATA ports. On laptop, it would be through a USB-to-SATA adapter and would need 2 -or- a 2 port SATA USB dock.


I think I'll go with the dock approach regardless.

The cable management in my tower isn't great, and I'd rather avoid installing more hard drives, especially for something that will only be connected temporarily.

The dock approach seems cleaner and less invasive.

Something like this is what you were referring to, correct?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XYL599...RvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1#customerReviews

And that means I have to remove the hard drive from my current Tivo, so I can have both connected to the dock at the same time?

I can't leave it connected in the Tivo, and transfer the data through the network?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

nuraman00 said:


> Something like this is what you were referring to, correct?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XYL599...RvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1#customerReviews


If your computer has a USB 3 port, but if you were to use it to clone drives, and the new one is larger, it will only make it the same size.

(Some of those with transparent cases looked interesting. )



nuraman00 said:


> I have to remove the hard drive from my current Tivo,


Yes.


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## bbauman99 (Nov 7, 2009)

ggieseke said:


> MFS Tools aligns the partitions during the mfscopy command. Red drives don't have IntelliPark, so you don't need to disable anything.


Which tools should I use? JMSTools or MFS Live CD (or do I need both)?

Thanks.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Just MFSTools 3.x.

MFS Live CD is too old.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ThAbtO said:


> If your computer has a USB 3 port, but if you were to use it to clone drives, and the new one is larger, it will only make it the same size.
> 
> (Some of those with transparent cases looked interesting. )
> 
> Yes.


I have a transparent case.  I like it, I like being able to see the LED lights on both my CPU, and GPU.

Just so I understand, cloning a drive is one option.

But can I also copy from my existing drive, to a new 4 TB drive, as posted in #27 by @Wigohwt, and have the ~ 4 TB available?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

As said before, When you clone the drive, its an exact copy. If the target is larger than the original, there would be some space that need to be recovered, expanded and you would need to use MFSTools 3.x to do it.

Using just MFSTools 3.x, it will do the copy and expanding in 1 operation (session, etc.) No need to clone.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

comdoc8 said:


> Thanks ThAbtO. This is what I'll use due to budget constraints. These were helpful:
> 
> Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions - with all-in-one jmfs Live CD


I'm watching this video now.

Does the Premiere XL4 also use a Torx T10?

I looked on the back of my unit, it kind of looks like it, but am not sure.

If so, I have to get the bits.

Do Torx bits fit in normal power screwdriver heads? Or do I need a special Torx screwdriver too?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Torx 10 and 15 on the drive bracket.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I'll make sure to try out my USB 3.1 Gen 2 port for this. I only have 1 of those, not sure if I've used it before.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

ThAbtO said:


> Torx 10 and 15 on the drive bracket.


Thanks. Do I need a special Torx screwdriver, or can those bits fit into my Black & Decker power screwdriver?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I've read bits and pieces of the 74 page *MFS Tools 3.2* thread.

I downloaded MFS Tools from here:

MFS Tools

How do I run it on a Windows 10 PC? I see different recommendations in different posts, so not sure what to do.

Is there an ISO I can burn to a CD? It appears that was one option, in different places in the thread.

Should I copy the program to a SD card using Etcher?


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I ordered:

* Torx bit set

* Inateck USB 3.0 to SATA I/II/III Dual Bay External Hard Drive Docking Station

* 6 feet USB 3.0 Type A to Type B cable. The one that comes with the docking station seemed a little short.

* WD Red 4 TB hard drive.


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## nuraman00 (Dec 28, 2012)

I finished. I'll post the steps that I did later this weekend.


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## AZSEWERMAN (12 mo ago)

ThAbtO said:


> The ISO file is of MFSTools 3.2, that you burn to a CD and boot from it with only the Tivo and/or Red blank drive attached.
> 
> MFSTools can backup/restore everything even shows, but you want to store them on a separate PC/Mac drive after its been downloaded from the Tivo, then transfer back after the new drive is working in the Tivo, Tivo does not use the same file system as a PC or Mac.
> 
> The image file of a Tivo is not a .ISO. What happens is, you do need to connect the drives to a computer. However, your computer would think the drive is blank and will attempt/ask to format it, DO Not. IT WILL ERASE The Tivo drive. The programs (DVRBars, MFSTools 3.2) will be able to recognize the Tivo drive and can put the image (either you backed it up or from someone's image file) to the new drive (which does not require format or preparing).


Am I correct in reading that this MFStool3.2 is NOT the Tivo program, but merely a crutch to allow putting the Tivo image onto a hard drive when I can get one? If this is correct is there anyplace online I can get the Tivo image for premier 4? [email protected]


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

AZSEWERMAN said:


> Am I correct in reading that this MFStool3.2 is NOT the Tivo program, but merely a crutch to allow putting the Tivo image onto a hard drive when I can get one? If this is correct is there anyplace online I can get the Tivo image for premier 4? [email protected]


Image sent. Use DvrBARS to restore it.


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## AZSEWERMAN (12 mo ago)

Finally got back to Tivo. I unzipped the image you sent to a USB flash drive. Says it is 2.5 G or so. When I try to use dvrBARS to put it on a 1 TB drive I get an error saying the new drive is too small for the image. What am I doing wrong?


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

AZSEWERMAN said:


> Finally got back to Tivo. I unzipped the image you sent to a USB flash drive. Says it is 2.5 G or so. When I try to use dvrBARS to put it on a 1 TB drive I get an error saying the new drive is too small for the image. What am I doing wrong?


The image I sent you is for a a TCD758250, known a a Premiere Elite or XL4. The smallest drive for that model is 2TB, which is what it came with from the factory.

If you have a different model let me know.


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