# Roamio Wi-Fi



## jacbec (May 15, 2012)

Why in the world didn&#8217;t TiVo use 802.11ac wi-fi in Roamio? I am updating all of my Apple toys to the new standard. I asked TiVo chat and they were ho-hum, 802.11n works fine. So does my 1964 Pontiac.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

The CPU probably doesn't have that much transfer bandwidth (just as the Premiere is limited to roughly 80mbps), so it wouldn't get used to its full potential. But it will be interesting to see what kind of speed we can get out of a Roamio.


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## c-collins (Sep 27, 2003)

most likely because 802.11ac is not a finalized standard yet.


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## mr_smits (Dec 17, 2009)

jacbec said:


> I am updating all of my Apple toys to the new standard


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## wilhelmp (Jan 27, 2005)

These responses are pretty weak, guys. Lack of CPU power and draft spec status? Broadcom announced its 802.11ac chips in Jan 2012, so there was plenty of time to plan for supporting it, including any CPU, RAM or other architectural needs. While the standard hasn't been completely finalized, it's at the final stages and isn't expected to change much at this point, which is why there are many routers and devices already on the market that support it.


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

What does 802.11ac provide that you think a TiVo needs?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo hardware has never really been accused of being cutting edge. 802.11ac is just barely starting to hit the market, very, very few people are using it. It's still very much bleeding edge technology and only companies that make bleeding edge hardware are using it.

That being said if you really want to use 802.11ac you can always use an Ethernet bridge.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

So is 802.11n fast enough to stream shows Tivo to Tivo?

I'd like to get the base Roamio for upstairs, adding a big (8-bay) antenna in the attic, and use it as my everyday OTA recorder.

Then stream shows to my (original model) Premiere downstairs (already connected via ethernet to the wireless router), possibly adding digital cable later.

I'd rather stream than copy because ATSC MPEG-2 generates huge files.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It should be able to handle 1 stream OK as long as you don't have a bunch of other traffic on your wifi network and you have a good signal.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Thanks, ordered it & got a free Stream via code:GROUPER.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

802.11n is plenty fast for anything TiVo needs to do, including room to room streaming. The problem with Wireless in general (And why TiVo doesn't allow MRS over WiFi) is that 2.4GHz is an extremely congested band. Moving to 802.11n over 5GHz would alleviate that issue somewhat and the way 802.11ac alleviates that issue further is by restricting it to ONLY work on 5GHz and increasing the number of channels that are bonded together to make it work.

There is no discovery that led to the design of 802.11ac, they switched modulations, required MORE spectrum and restricted it to 5GHz only. Not exactly rocket science.

The upshot is that the new Roamio line supports *802.11 a/b/g/n on BOTH the 2.4GHz AND 5GHz bands*.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

ncbill said:


> Thanks, ordered it & got a free Stream via code:GROUPER.


I used that code and they gave me $50 off. Maybe because I already had a stream in my account.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ncbill said:


> So is 802.11n fast enough to stream shows Tivo to Tivo?
> 
> I'd like to get the base Roamio for upstairs, adding a big (8-bay) antenna in the attic, and use it as my everyday OTA recorder.
> 
> ...


802.11n is more than fast enough. You just need to have a properly setup network. Unfortunately most people don't. A properly setup Wi-Fi network has multipls APs and the APs will also not be saturated and will not using congested channels. The vast majority of home networks were not setup to meet that criteria and that is typically why they have issues.

When I tested my TiVo Premieres and Minis with wireless Bridges, From a user perspective, the experience was identical to when they were connected to Ethernet or MoCA.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Philmatic said:


> The upshot is that the new Roamio line supports *802.11 a/b/g/b on BOTH the 2.4GHz AND 5GHz bands*.


I think you meant that last "b" to be an "n".


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

SugarBowl said:


> I used that code and they gave me $50 off. Maybe because I already had a stream in my account.


It gives you $50 off the Stream and another $80 off the TiVo, so the Stream is essentially free.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

jrm01 said:


> I think you meant that last "b" to be an "n".


Yes, sorry. Corrected in the original post.


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## brianm729 (Jul 11, 2013)

I thought in order to use stream or mini the TiVo needed a wired Ethernet connection. Am I mistaken?


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## Tico (Dec 10, 2002)

wilhelmp said:


> These responses are pretty weak, guys. Lack of CPU power and draft spec status? Broadcom announced its 802.11ac chips in Jan 2012, so there was plenty of time to plan for supporting it, including any CPU, RAM or other architectural needs. While the standard hasn't been completely finalized, it's at the final stages and isn't expected to change much at this point, which is why there are many routers and devices already on the market that support it.


And why didn't they give us Quad Core processors, gigs of Ram. 20 tuners Keyboards.... etc....

Because of cost and at this point adoption is likely less than .5% and noone needs it....


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

brianm729 said:


> I thought in order to use stream or mini the TiVo needed a wired Ethernet connection. Am I mistaken?


It's not "supported" meaning they won't support you if you call them, but it works.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

brianm729 said:


> I thought in order to use stream or mini the TiVo needed a wired Ethernet connection. Am I mistaken?


They want the connection between the TiVo DVR and the mini or stream to be hardwired. The reason is that the MPEG2 show travels over that connection and needs both high bandwidth and a clean connection. The connection to the iPad or streaming client can be less robust because the show is transcoded to AVC which requires much less bandwidth.

On the Roamio Plus or pro the connection between the disk and transcoding chip is all inside the same box, so it just isn't an issue anymore.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

CuriousMark said:


> On the Roamio Plus or pro the connection between the disk and transcoding chip is all inside the same box, so it just isn't an issue anymore.


The Roamio Plus/Pro can still Stream shows form other Premieres so the network still matters in that case.


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## jacbec (May 15, 2012)

Any guesses when the ghostware will be available to WATCH RECORDED SHOWS ON THE GO?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Tom Rodgers said "Fall"


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

CuriousMark said:


> They want the connection between the TiVo DVR and the mini or stream to be hardwired. The reason is that the MPEG2 show travels over that connection and needs both high bandwidth and a clean connection. The connection to the iPad or streaming client can be less robust because the show is transcoded to AVC which requires much less bandwidth.
> 
> On the Roamio Plus or pro the connection between the disk and transcoding chip is all inside the same box, so it just isn't an issue anymore.


MPEG2 is low bandwidth. OTA is at most only 19Mb/s. That is not alot of bandwidth.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> MPEG2 is low bandwidth. OTA is at most only 19Mb/s. That is not alot of bandwidth.


For sustained throughput on a packet based network it can be. The actual real world throughput of G is only about 20Mbps. N is only about 40-50Mbps. So if you try to use a TiVo to it's full potential over wifi by streaming to multiple Minis at once and you could easily run into the limit. By contrast MoCa is about 120-150Mbps.

This is why I'm really, really, surprised the low end Roamio doesn't have MoCa. I thought all TiVos would have MoCa from here on out. Maybe it's some sort of conflict between MoCa and the ATSC tuners?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Tom Rodgers said "Fall"


Given Tivo's track record, that could be "Fall 2014".

At least he didn't say "imminent" - that's Rodgers-speak for "probably never".


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

He actually said "that lights up this fall", so it was pretty clear their intent is to have it in a couple months. Although you never really know. We've seen Fall features slip to Spring before.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> For sustained throughput on a packet based network it can be. The actual real world throughput of G is only about 20Mbps. N is only about 40-50Mbps. So if you try to use a TiVo to it's full potential over wifi by streaming to multiple Minis at once and you could easily run into the limit. By contrast MoCa is about 120-150Mbps.
> 
> This is why I'm really, really, surprised the low end Roamio doesn't have MoCa. I thought all TiVos would have MoCa from here on out. Maybe it's some sort of conflict between MoCa and the ATSC tuners?


Does anyone know how many receive/transmit channels the Roamio has? The more it has the higher the bandwidth it can utilize over wireless.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> MPEG2 is low bandwidth. OTA is at most only 19Mb/s. That is not alot of bandwidth.


I could have said high bandwidth when compared with AVC. But yes, in comparison with uncompressed video it is very low bandwidth. Of course uncompressed video is not travelling over anyone's Ethernet, MoCA, or Wireless out of any TiVo provided box currently so I didn't think I needed to mention that.

I still believe TiVo wants to keep MPEG2 streams on a wire and is less concerned with AVC streams. I also know that a well set-up wireless network can be made to work well with both. TiVo just doesn't seem to want to deal with getting people's wireless set up well.


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## duerrs (Dec 7, 2011)

ncbill said:


> So is 802.11n fast enough to stream shows Tivo to Tivo?
> 
> I'd like to get the base Roamio for upstairs, adding a big (8-bay) antenna in the attic, and use it as my everyday OTA recorder.
> 
> ...


it is plenty fast enough.....i have been doing it for a long time.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Fast enough? Sure, but not reliable enough for all cases, such as living in an apartment/townhouse/condo complex with congested 2.4Ghz channels. The Roamio's ability to use 5Ghz should help.


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## bucm4sko24wle2mi (Aug 17, 2009)

c-collins said:


> most likely because 802.11ac is not a finalized standard yet.


. Nope. More likely a future funding source AKA upgrade "Roamio AC"


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## c-collins (Sep 27, 2003)

Also to be fair to Tivo they probably spec'ed out the Roamio design about a year ago so wireless AC chips would have been much more scarce back then. Most smaller companies are forced go with what you know will be available. If your a Sony or an Apple you can go with what you want to be available because you have the leverage to make the supply chain comply.


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## hamlet00 (Apr 9, 2007)

802.11ac should have been included in the Roamio, no question about it.
The whole idea of Roamio was to make a big splash with cutting edge features.
"Good enough" doesn't cut it when I am an early adopter and spending $400 or $500 for a box that is missing the newest spec. "Use a bridge" doesn't cut it, unless I am using a box I bought years ago and want to save the upgrade cost.


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## a80099 (Oct 13, 2013)

I found the wi-fi is all but useless in my Roamio. It connects, but will not stay that way or run with any reliability. I only need it to connect to get the guide and scheduling services. Im not streaming or anything else. I can go across the street to my neighbors with my iPad with no issues for signal strength... So if I have it 15FT away.. not good. The WIFI is like an after thought on this system and the lack of support/functionality is a bummer.


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## GameJerk (Jul 8, 2007)

I'm quite enjoying the Roamio so far. It has a lot of quirks to work out but its by far the best Tivo experience I've had.


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

a80099 said:


> I found the wi-fi is all but useless in my Roamio. It connects, but will not stay that way or run with any reliability.


That is not the case for me. Both of mine work fine, although one of them I later replaced with a hardwired connection. Never experienced anything like that.


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