# Opera TV Store Now Available



## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

Earlier today I had that dreaded C133 error signaling an outage. Since this was at 2 AM I figured TiVo was doing some scheduled maintenance. Apparently I was correct. I turned my TiVo on at around 6:30 and the Opera TV store is now available along with MovieFone and (only one) TechCrunch. I haven't had a chance to explore the TV Store yet, but there's quite a lot of apps.


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## tdeegan (Oct 1, 2003)

Where do you see the Opera TV store? I don't see it in any of the Tivo Central menus


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

tdeegan said:


> Where do you see the Opera TV store? I don't see it in any of the Tivo Central menus


Reset the HDUI and it appears.



> If you don't see Opera TV Store in "Apps & Games" then make a connection to the TiVo Service, and after it is complete go to TiVo Central and press THUMBS DOWN - THUMBS UP - PLAY - PLAY. (This will restart the UI, and they will appear. Otherwise it will appear the next time the box reboots.


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## takeagabu (Oct 7, 2007)

Now all it needs is a single app that's worth your time.


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

Amazon Prime would be a good one.


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## takeagabu (Oct 7, 2007)

Well, there seems to be an redesigned amazon app on the way (though I doubt it has anything to do with the Opera store). Let's hope it includes prime:

" a TiVo spokesperson stated (to someone other than me) that an updated Amazon experience is coming. And we did see an Amazon icon accidentally published to the Mini a few months back, which may or may not be related. But where theres smoke (and intel from TiVo Marketing), theres fire."

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-12/tivo-roamio-opera-apps/


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## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

Nah, we'll probably just get a redesigned Amazon icon.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

It seems to work pretty good. The selection is really poor but maybe having such a store on the TiVo platform will push more developers to using it. As for now, Vimeo is probably the only useful app that I have seen.


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## tdeegan (Oct 1, 2003)

3 days into my new Roamio Pro. At least an app store is an improvement over the Premiere series.


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## tdeegan (Oct 1, 2003)

sbiller said:


> Reset the HDUI and it appears.


Tried resetting the HDUI and restarting the Tivo. Opera TV Store didn't show up in the "apps and games" menu. Oddly, my C501 error while accessing "what to what now" cleared up mysteriously cleared up.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Try forcing a call.


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## tdeegan (Oct 1, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Try forcing a call.


Tried forcing and a call and resetting the HDUI a 3-4x, still nothing. At least I fixed my problem from last night.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

When you add an app to Favorites it should put an icon directly to that app in the main TiVo apps list. That would be cool.


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## takeagabu (Oct 7, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> When you add an app to Favorites it should put an icon directly to that app in the main TiVo apps list. That would be cool.


100% Agree...also we need apps that we would want to adds to favorites.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Some of the games are mildly amusing. I don't expect anything major to be released directly to the store. Apps like Amazon, VUDU, HBOGo, etc... will likely be directly integrated into the TiVo like Netflix and Hulu.


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## HenryFarpolo (Dec 1, 2008)

I see these additions as a step in the right direction. Certainly better than no step at all.

I found some things on Opera that I liked.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

FYI: This is also available on the TiVo Mini.

The only app worth anything is Vimeo, and we already had a somewhat similar Vimeo "app" as part of the Web Video Hotlist/Flingo for months now. All this does is allow TiVo to claim "Hundreds of apps are now available on the TiVo platform."

Additionally, when digging into codec support for the Opera TV App store, it appears that only H.264 video in an mp4 container is supported, along with MPEG1/MPEG2/AAC audio. So any hope for robust local video playback is greatly diminished. There IS support for HLS though, so something like Plex could work provided you installed their server software to provide transcoding capabilities.

Sources:
Codec Support: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/html5-audio-video-support-in-opera-tv-store-applications/
HLS Support: http://media.opera.com/media/b2b/tv/201201/Opera_Media_Streaming.pdf


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

A local video server could transcode to H.264 on the fly. The biggest disappointment is the lack of AC3 audio support, so no surround sound.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> A local video server could transcode to H.264 on the fly. The biggest disappointment is the lack of AC3 audio support, so no surround sound.


Yeah, that's why I mentioned Plex. It is hardly a good thing though since it doesn't add any capabilities over what we have now using something like Streambaby. TiVo already has hardware and license support for MPEG1/MPEG2/H.264 and VC-1, along with AC3 on the audio side. It would have been a huge benefit to expose those codec to the Opera TV Store, but it doesn't seem to allow for that.

I was hoping for something along the lines of WDTV/XBMC local playback support, not Plex/PlayOn like transcoding.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Yes this was my main beef with TiVo Opera browser based videos when I tried a while back - very limited codec support, especially audio. I did make a very simple sample html5 based player just for proof of concept, but didn't go far because of the codec issue. However, there MUST be a way to handle launching video outside of browser framework itself to get AC3 audio since Netflix & YouTube html Apps are doing it...

EDIT: BTW, the sample player did work on the Mini as expected, so was the 1st time I got true custom video streaming working for the Mini.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I still think TiVo is going to give the bigger companies access to their actual SDK to develop their apps. The opera store is just a gateway to the smaller developers TiVo would never give access to.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Seems pretty week...

I am guessing that the opera SDK might be the limiting factor in breaking out of these limitations. Kind of disappointing.

I was really hoping for a better media library solution then what we have today (hasn't changed since the Series 2 days)


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## razor237 (Feb 1, 2002)

I would love to see Plex on there ... I wouldnt have to use my google tv to access all my movies


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## StevesWeb (Dec 26, 2008)

From a marketing perspective this seems like a response to the Roku and other set top streamers. Now they can point to live TV, DVR TV, and a wider variety of streaming options. 

The Opera app store is a bit light on the compelling content right now, but I saw a few interesting items.

I give it a B and one


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

moyekj said:


> However, there MUST be a way to handle launching video outside of browser framework itself to get AC3 audio since Netflix & YouTube html Apps are doing it...


Is all the data on a Premier/Roamio drive encrypted? If not I wonder if someone could take the drive out of their machine and see if they can grab the code for the Netflix or YouTube apps and see how they work. The good thing about HTML5/Javascript is it's not compiled so it's easy to look at what others are doing.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Is all the data on a Premier/Roamio drive encrypted? If not I wonder if someone could take the drive out of their machine and see if they can grab the code for the Netflix or YouTube apps and see how they work. The good thing about HTML5/Javascript is it's not compiled so it's easy to look at what others are doing.


YouTube app is just a URL reference isn't it? Not sure if Netflix is the same...

https://www.youtube.com/tv#/browse

Let's see if this works - should show you the source code...

Source Code


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## siratfus (Oct 3, 2008)

Well, this is already a big hit with me. I like the Asian Crush and MYXTV apps. Especially myxtv since it has some classic Kung Fu english dubbed movies. This is too cool if you happen to like this kinda stuff. Watching "Kung-Fu of 8 Drunkards" right now. LOL!


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bradleys said:


> YouTube app is just a URL reference isn't it? Not sure if Netflix is the same...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/tv#/browse
> 
> ...


 The "Source Code" link shows nothing for me (and the generated htm has an error). But most often the useful javascript code that does all the work is loaded from separate files that are not available to download. The top page that uses the code then simply makes references to functions that were loaded from those files. So most often all the good stuff is hidden/protected.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Is all the data on a Premier/Roamio drive encrypted? If not I wonder if someone could take the drive out of their machine and see if they can grab the code for the Netflix or YouTube apps and see how they work. The good thing about HTML5/Javascript is it's not compiled so it's easy to look at what others are doing.


 As was mentioned above we know the YouTube entry point page already and it's not local to the TiVo. The Netflix one is a mystery as the uri of the launch point is a special one: x-tivo:netflix:netflix


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bradleys said:


> YouTube app is just a URL reference isn't it? Not sure if Netflix is the same...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/tv#/browse


At some level that is what is loaded. However, for DIAL to be supported, I believe there is some type of layer on top of it.


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## jgametest (Oct 31, 2013)

In order for you to have control you need to access the section of youtube app that says settings you need to BIND the device to your account and it can be done on multiple devices.

You will need to access a browser to www.youtube.com/activate
there will be a pin you have to type in or scan the barcode from your tv.

If you have the QR barcode reader you could just snap the photo and your stock browser will automatically load you to the activation page on Youtube and choose ALLOW. If you don't have the free reader hit the IOS store and search for QR Barcode same in Google PLAY.

Once that is completed you can browse on that device and Cast videos to it directly. Make sure you hit the cast button and choose whatever you named your tv/TiVo. I named my cast device "vizio".

Casting Perk
* Able to play an entire playlist or Subscription
* Can fwrd/rew live

If you don't wont to play a video now there is an option that allow you to sent to TV Que for playback later.

** CAUTION ** Sometimes the casting / Dial function will hang between loading videos. It was a known issue with certain videos causing the app to crash or time out for incompatibility or misbehavior. This was an issue in the previous Youtube app, to resolve this Google installed a timer/pause delay so the next video would load smoother. Sadly with this new update, many videos will not be shown on your screen due to playback unsupported.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

rainwater said:


> At some level that is what is loaded. However, for DIAL to be supported, I believe there is some type of layer on top of it.


Ultimately at lower level what TiVo is doing to launch to specific video for both YouTube & Netflix is just adding extra parameters to the uri. So for example for YouTube:

```
x-tivo:web:https://www.youtube.com/tv?v=fOQ_XBDv1XU
```
For Netflix:

```
x-tivo:netflix:netflix?partnerOfferId=programs/0000/70196252
```
When you perform a search on TiVo that includes Netflix and/or YouTube results there is a "parternOfferId" parameter that contains the specific video id to use in the above URIs. So the DIAL implementation ultimately passes along the video id needed and then at lower level TiVo launches using above methods.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Attached is a text file with the source code from a video page, as I pulled from my ipad... In case it mattered, I wanted to take it from a mobile browser...

I actually find this snippet pretty interesting:

```
<script>
      window[\'swfConfig\'] = {"min_version": "8.0.0", "url_v9as2": "https:\/\/s.ytimg.com\/yts\/swfbin\/player-vfltMPh2H\/cps.swf", "sts": 16051, "attrs": {"id": "movie_player"}, "params": {"allowfullscreen": "true", "allowscriptaccess": "always", "bgcolor": "#000000"}, "args": {"cr": "", "sendtmp": "1", "cosver": "7_0", "cos": "iPad", "cbr": "Safari Mobile", "cver": "4", "idpj": "-7", "enablejsapi": 1, "cbrver": "7.0.11A465", "fexp": "919122,927845,930102,915117,916626,942422,909717,932295,936912,936910,923305,936913,907231,907240,921090", "c": "TVHTML5", "ssl": "1", "hl": "", "ldpj": "-25"}, "url_v8": "https:\/\/s.ytimg.com\/yts\/swfbin\/player-vfltMPh2H\/cps.swf", "url": "https:\/\/s.ytimg.com\/yts\/swfbin\/player-vfltMPh2H\/watch_as3.swf", "assets": {"html": "\/html5_player_template", "js": "\/\/s.ytimg.com\/yts\/jsbin\/html5player-vflCt6YZX.js", "css": "\/\/s.ytimg.com\/yts\/cssbin\/www-player-vflx9ce4G.css"}, "html5": false};
      window[\'environment\'] = {"browser": "Safari Mobile", "network_retry": true, "country": "US", "xbox_experiments": "935302,935300,935301,939400,939401,935303,935303,935304,935304,935304,935304,935304,939407,939407,939407,939407,939402,939403,939404,939405,939406,939402,939402,939402,939402", "os": "iPad", "experiments": [919122, 927845, 930102, 915117, 916626, 942422, 927303, 909717, 927611, 929150, 925728, 906945, 927704, 920605, 912715, 937003, 919811, 935704, 931943, 921409, 920607, 936702, 911427, 922804, 931207, 929505, 901812, 932276, 932295, 919389, 934003, 934004, 938614, 938617, 938626, 936912, 936910, 923305, 936913, 936914, 939201, 941241, 934507, 907231, 907240, 939918, 921090, 906001], "exceptions_sw": 100, "voice_gesture_sw": 1, "xbox_launches": "", "xbox_drm_enabled": true, "dash_enabled": true, "backend_error_sw": 25, "activity_sw": 100, "browser_version": "7.0.11A465", "h5_exceptions_sw": 100, "player_url": "https:\/\/s.ytimg.com\/yts\/jsbin\/tv-player-vflQFBHgY.js", "xbox_purchases_enabled": true, "start_time": 1387465200, "os_version": "7_0", "language": "en-us", "post_play_sw": 100};
      window[\'loader\'] = "live";
      window[\'devjs\'] = false;
      window[\'appRoot\'] = "\/s\/tv\/html5\/";
    </script>
    <script src="/s/tv/html5/loader/live.js"></script><script src="/s/tv/html5/dd58a3e2/app-prod.js"></script><script src="https://s.ytimg.com/yts/jsbin/tv-player-vflQFBHgY.js"></script><script>checkBrokenLabel()</script><script>removeAngularCss()</script><script>initializeOrRedirect(\'/s/tv/html5/dd58a3e2\');</script>
```


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bradleys said:


> Attached is a text file with the source code from a video page, as I pulled from my ipad... In case it mattered, I wanted to take it from a mobile browser...
> 
> I actually find this snippet pretty interesting:
> 
> ...


That is interesting, but doesn't give us the TiVo specific code. Code for each browser will likely look different. May be interesting to try using Opera browser on a PC.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Moyekj

I pull source codes on the iPad using this process and little javascript code snippet from this guy. Is there a way you could modify this to view the source code on the TiVo using your tools?

http://ole.michelsen.dk/blog/view-source-on-the-ipad-and-iphone/


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

bradleys said:


> Moyekj
> 
> I pull source codes on the iPad using this process and little code snippet from this guy. Is there a way you could modify this to view the source code on the TiVo using your tools?
> 
> www.hongkiat.com/blog/view-source-codes-in-ipad-iphone/


1st using kmttg Web tab I executed this to test YouTube video launches correctly on my TiVo:

```
https://www.youtube.com/tv#/watch?v=GeaSlcMpPTQ
```
Worked as expected.

Next I executed this:

```
http://ole.michelsen.dk/viewsource/?uri=https://www.youtube.com/tv#/watch?v=GeaSlcMpPTQ
```
Just gave me a black screen on the TiVo.

Executing the above in Firefox and Internet Explorer also just gave me empty screen.

If you can come up with a URL that works for an ordinary browser then there's a chance we can get something from TiVo browser as well.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I will look...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

moyekj said:


> As was mentioned above we know the YouTube entry point page already and it's not local to the TiVo. The Netflix one is a mystery as the uri of the launch point is a special one: x-tivo:netflix:netflix


YouTube is all H.264 with AAC audio so it probably just uses the tag. Netflix likely uses an internal "app" with lower level access to the hardware for better codec support and surround sound. (don't they use VC-1 for video?)


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

I thought I could perhaps find the Netflix URL by launching Netflix and then shortly after using http://opera:history opera:history which used to work to list recent history. Sadly, looks like starting with 20.3.8 software the opera:history and opera:cache special URLs which used to work are now blocked. opera:about still works.

Unfortunately my series 4 units both have 20.3.8 on them already...
If someone has series 4 units with 20.3.7 perhaps they can check? 1st check under kmttg Remote->Web that opera:history still works. Then using latest kmttg launch Netflix (html) from Remote->Remote and then check opera:history again.

(It could be 20.3.7 blocked those special URLs as well as I don't recall if I checked if they still worked then or not).


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> YouTube is all H.264 with AAC audio so it probably just uses the tag. Netflix likely uses an internal "app" with lower level access to the hardware for better codec support and surround sound. (don't they use VC-1 for video?)


 Wasn't sure about YouTube. So there's no 6 channel AC3 audio for YouTube even for so-called HD videos? (I use TV speakers for audio so wouldn't know). I think it was determined a while back that 6 channel AAC doesn't work properly on TiVos, properly meaning you do hear audio but it's not 6 channels.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

moyekj said:


> Wasn't sure about YouTube. So there's no 6 channel AC3 audio for YouTube even for so-called HD videos? (I use TV speakers for audio so wouldn't know). I think it was determined a while back that 6 channel AAC doesn't work properly on TiVos, properly meaning you do hear audio but it's not 6 channels.


Nope, YouTube is 2ch AAC only. I also looked at the source for the YouTube HTML5 app an it uses the standard tag, so I'm 99% sure it's just using the standard HTML5 tag with H.264 video and AAC audio for the app.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

moyekj said:


> I thought I could perhaps find the Netflix URL by launching Netflix and then shortly after using http://opera:history which used to work to list recent history. Sadly, looks like starting with 20.3.8 software the opera:history and opera:cache special URLs which used to work are now blocked. opera:about still works.
> 
> Unfortunately my series 4 units both have 20.3.8 on them already...
> If someone has series 4 units with 20.3.7 perhaps they can check? 1st check under kmttg Remote->Web that opera:history still works. Then using latest kmttg launch Netflix (html) from Remote->Remote and then check opera:history again.
> ...


My Wife's XL4 still has 20.3.7, but when I launch that http://opera:history url I get a generic search page where it's looking for "http opera history"


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> My Wife's XL4 still has 20.3.7, but when I launch that http://opera:history url I get a generic search page where it's looking for "http opera history"


 Sorry, try simply opera:history without the http:// part.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That worked but how do I launch netflix? I tried using x-tivo:netflix:netflix but then I get an error that says "the address you typed is unknown"


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> That worked but how do I launch netflix? I tried using x-tivo:netflix:netflix but then I get an error that says "the address you typed is unknown"


 You need very latest version of kmttg v1p0k (use Help->Update kmttg menu). Then after re-starting kmttg from Remote tab, Remote sub-tab click on "HME Jump" button with "Netflix (html)" selected. (Also be sure to set the TiVo selection to correct entry before launching).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

OK found it. But I launched Netflix, wen through the setup, played around in it a bit and then relaunched the history. Netflix was not listed. The only thing listed was my failed attempt at http://opera:history and the search page my ISP automatically redirected to.

So apparently Netflix is not actually using the Opera browser. That Netflix thread says that they are using a custom rendering engine, and not HTML5, so it's possible TiVo has a direct hook into the Netflix app that has nothing to do with Opera.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> OK found it. But I launched Netflix, wen through the setup, played around in it a bit and then relaunched the history. Netflix was not listed. The only thing listed was my failed attempt at http://opera:history and the search page my ISP automatically redirected to.
> 
> So apparently Netflix is not actually using the Opera browser. That Netflix thread says that they are using a custom rendering engine, and not HTML5, so it's possible TiVo has a direct hook into the Netflix app that has nothing to do with Opera.


 Darn. Thanks for trying. Given the special url to launch netflix that is not the normal x-tivo:web prefix that could be very likely.

Is YouTube on that TiVo the html version? If it is may be worth checking history after YouTube launch from TiVo itself to see if that shows up in opera:history.
(NOTE: Don't use kmttg to launch YouTube as that is the old Flash version that it launches that I've changed to html for next kmttg release).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yes YouTube is listed. Twice in fact. Not sure why twice, but it is listed. Although it just says "YouTube TV" it doesn't show the URL and I don't seem to have a way to "click" the link.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Yes YouTube is listed. Twice in fact. Not sure why twice, but it is listed. Although it just says "YouTube TV" it doesn't show the URL and I don't seem to have a way to "click" the link.


 OK, that seems to confirm then that Netflix is not launched via opera browser and must be using some lower level mechanisms. I have a feeling that if/when TiVo does launch their SDK it will only be using the opera browser and with videos limited to using tags that it supports, so we won't be any better off than what we can do now... Sure would be nice to get access to the TiVo SDK Netflix is using.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Well with the way Netflix can cause the entire machine to reboot I can see why TiVo would want to keep everything contained to the browser.

Although nothing is preventing them from working with Opera to extend the codecs supported. The codecs supported now are specifically what's allowed by the HTML5 spec, but it's not unheard of for browsers to add additional capabilities.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Although nothing is preventing them from working with Opera to extend the codecs supported. The codecs supported now are specifically what's allowed by the HTML5 spec, but it's not unheard of for browsers to add additional capabilities.


 At least if transport stream container was supported then transcoding would be a viable option. As it is with just mp4 container it's pretty useless for anything along those lines.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

moyekj said:


> At least if transport stream container was supported then transcoding would be a viable option. As it is with just mp4 container it's pretty useless for anything along those lines.


You can transcode the container on the fly as well. Plex currently does this for MKV files to support devices that only supports MP4 containers.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Philmatic said:


> You can transcode the container on the fly as well. Plex currently does this for MKV files to support devices that only supports MP4 containers.


 Well historically TiVo has wanted MOOV atom at the head of the file which I don't think is possible to create correctly for incomplete/transcoding mp4 file. Perhaps via Opera browser playback that is not a requirement, but I think it still is for mp4 files transferred natively to a TiVo. I guess it's easy enough to test...

EDIT: I was able to play mp4 file without MOOV atom at front via Opera browser which makes it a little more interesting.

While testing that I noticed many of the keycodes for TiVo remote have changed since implementing my html5 test player for the TiVo, but it looks like buttons that weren't recognized before like the "Info" button now do get recognized. Skip forwards button still not recognized for some odd reason.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They support HLS, which is basically just TS broken up into little chunks. Theoretically it's possible to create an experience identical to the Stream where you transcode to HLS on the fly. Like the Stream you'd be limited to skipping, no FF/RW, and there would always be a lag while you started the transcode for the new segment, but it would be doable.

For MP4 you still need to read the MOOV atom before you can play the file and you can't create the MOOV atom until the entire file has been encoded, so it's not possible to do a realtime transcode to MP4.

Edit: for the HLS thing you really couldn't do it with a CLI encoder like FFmpeg. You'd have to have something much lower level that would allow you to dynamically seek in the source file and flush the buffers in the encoder when you did. FFmpeg is actually built on a set of dlls which you can use directly (we do it in VRD) but it's not well documented so it can be difficult. In fact if you're going to do this I would recommend using the x264 encoder directly instead. The x264 API is much more straight forward. But you could use the FFmpeg API to do all the decoding. I've written a generic reader/decoder for the next major release of VRD and it works pretty good. The only real issue is that each container handles timecodes a little differently, and some do so very poorly, so that can be a challenge to deal with.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> For MP4 you still need to read the MOOV atom before you can play the file and you can't create the MOOV atom until the entire file has been encoded, so it's not possible to do a realtime transcode to MP4.


 I thought so too which was why I was confused by comment above about Plex transcoding on fly to mp4?

For HLS I've tried m3u8 samples before with built in browser and could not get them to work, so I don't think internal browser even supports HLS. i.e. Using video tag for TiVo browser is almost useless outside of mp4 with H.264 + AAC.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

You're right HLS doesn't seem to load when launched via kmttg. But the SDK specifically mentions that it's supported. So I wonder if TiVo displayed it for some reason, or if maybe the browser has to specifically be launched as an app fir it to work?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> You're right HLS doesn't seem to load when launched via kmttg. But the SDK specifically mentions that it's supported. So I wonder if TiVo displayed it for some reason, or if maybe the browser has to specifically be launched as an app fir it to work?


 Note that you can't launch to a video file directly using the internal browser. You have to make an html5 file with a tag for it to work. Using that method works for mp4 with H.264 + AAC but nothing else I've tried.


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## AdamNJ (Aug 22, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> When you add an app to Favorites it should put an icon directly to that app in the main TiVo apps list. That would be cool.


I too expected that when I selected an 'app' and 'installed' it, that i would get a direct link from tivo central. That doesn't appear to be the case though, it looks like you have to launch opera again and then choose 'my apps'. It would be much better if it setup a direct link.

With that in mind, if we ever get an hbogo or amazon prime app, it def won't be through opera, it needs to be standalone. :down:


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

It is kind of frustrating, at the moment...

Instead of building an ecosystem that would make TiVo competitive with Roku or Apple TV services, they partner with a service that is installed in cheap TV's and Blueray players - and that no one uses! 

I sure hope the functionality expands and we start seeing some real Streaming Services implemented.

They should have purchased Boxee when it went up for sale...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Installing the Opera store was likely part of their agreement. They needed a browser to support HTML5 apps. Just look at YouTube. It uses the Opera browser but it's not in the Opera store. So by having a browser on the device they open it up to apps from all sorts of developers, even those that are not interested in the Opera store.

The alternative would be to create their own SDK. They tried that with old Flash based infrastructure and no one signed up. That's because no one wants to have to create and maintain a unique app for a platform with less then a million subscribers. The HTML5 approach allows them to make it easy for services to deploy apps on the system without having to develop/maintain a special version, which should in turn entice more services to support the platform.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> The alternative would be to create their own SDK. They tried that with old Flash based infrastructure and no one signed up.


Actually they never quite fully launched before the sole developer relations point of contact at TiVo left for another job. There was an SDK, but it was as bare-bones as it was possible to be, and once the developer relations guy left, no one else could get their box authorized for development work. There was supposed to be a bunch of additional apis made available in stages, but nothing else ever happened after Nov. 2012.



sbiller said:


> I noticed yesterday that Jay Patel is no longer at TiVo as of November 2012. I'm not sure what this means from a "Developer Program" perspective. I suspect we should see an update from the company sometime soon.
> 
> Jay Patel - LinkedIn
> 
> Jay Patel - Twitter


And if you look earlier in that thread, the launch of developer.tivo.com was Oct. 11, 2012. So people only had access for a month, give or take a couple weeks, before the program died with the loss of Jay Patel.

All that said, I don't disagree with you about Flash being a crummy choice for app development on TiVo for a lot of reasons. It's quite possible (and likely) that few devs/companies would have taken advantage of the program if they'd kept it rolling anyway.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Their developer terms were terrible too. It was basically... Submit your app and we will decide if it's good enough to include. If it is we own it and you get nothing for it.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bradleys said:


> It is kind of frustrating, at the moment...
> 
> Instead of building an ecosystem that would make TiVo competitive with Roku or Apple TV services, they partner with a service that is installed in cheap TV's and Blueray players - and that no one uses!
> 
> ...


As some have mentioned in quite a few threads, some do use other devices for Netflix, simply because those "cheap alternatives" don't give you anxiety over your TiVo possibly rebooting, while it is recording, or about to record, your recordings, and you feel like watching Netflix.

Every time I feel it is "safe" to get rid of my Rokus or some of my WD TV Live products, TiVo proves I still need them.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I have never actually had my Roamio reboot using Netflix and I personally don't use any other streaming boxes.

I am sure it happens, just hasn't ever happened to me.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I agree that not happening can sometimes happen. It's also impossible sometimes to be possible, and impossible to be possible. YMMV.


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## djdanska (Sep 30, 2004)

bradleys said:


> I have never actually had my Roamio reboot using Netflix and I personally don't use any other streaming boxes.
> 
> I am sure it happens, just hasn't ever happened to me.


My roamio kept rebooting with netflix but once I changed my Ethernet wire, it stopped. This TiVo is much more temperamental to network issues.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah it seems to be network related. Maybe it's a problem with the scaler or the decoder choking on the resolution changes.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Network issues cause the TiVo to reboot when streaming Netflix is a bug that's been around since Netflix was introduced. I believe it was finally fixed on Series 3 boxes, but somehow got reintroduced on the Premiere and Roamio boxes.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

nooneuknow said:


> I agree that not happening can sometimes happen. It's also impossible sometimes to be possible, and impossible to be possible.


Exactly

But given enough time, even the seemingly impossible can become probable.

As far as the Opera store, to me it just seems like something that came as "baggage" with the Opera agreement and is likely to go nowhere. TiVo Inc could throw it on there with little effort and point to it in marketing drivel. Hopefully I am wrong and it will develop into something useful.


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## ustavio (Oct 19, 2013)

djdanska said:


> My roamio kept rebooting with netflix but once I changed my Ethernet wire, it stopped. This TiVo is much more temperamental to network issues.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


I have read elsewhere that network fluctuations can cause Netflix reboots. Could I get some clarification and or expansion on this? You fixed your issue by changing your Ethernet wire. Is this Ethernet from the wall or a router or....? How are you set up? Are you using MoCA? Are you running Ethernet from the ONT or Coax? Do you mean network issues from your ISP/Cable provider or network issues from Netflix servers.

I've had multiple episodes of Netflix related reboots (and a few not related) since buying this Roamio. I have a Fios 35/35 setup with latest Gigabyte Actontec MoCA router. I have Coax from the wall, through a 5-2400 powerpass splitter with one leg to a Fios STB and the other to my TiVo Roamio Pro.

I've never seen MoCA Phy rates drop below 230 (never above 250 either) on 5 nodes (with the Roamio as the primary MAC and the Actiontec as the co-ordinating MAC). I get the random bad packet or packet error but nothing significant.

I used to get SuperHD on Netflix but lately, it only pops up sporadically. If I use my BluRay wireless (with old Netflix UI -but still with profiles), it's a little slower to load but always has 10-12 mbps throughput. The Roamio is faster but only gets 8-10 mbps throughput.

Frankly, I only know a smattering of what any of this really means as it is all new to me. But I am more convinced than ever that the Roamio doesn't handle network fluctuations well. I just don't know WHICH network. I also switched out the HDMI but there are many "different" ones out there (though I suspect it doesn't really matter anyway).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The best way to trouble shoot your home network is to buy a 100' Cat6/5e patch cable and run it directly from the TiVo to the router and bypass the MoCa network. If you still see the reboots then the fluctuation is happening on the internet side or the router itself. If you don't then you know it's the MoCa network.

Another thing you could try is enabling QoS on the router for the TiVo. QoS ensures that the packets for a specific IP take priority over packets for other IPs. So basically if you have two devices competing for bandwidth the one with QoS will always win.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

I still use my PS3 for streaming services, not only because it never reboots, but because it offers a better experience (nflx profiles) as well as Amazon streaming and Vudu.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

Is there some trick necessary to get the Opera store to show up on my Roamio? I understand it's not all that interesting, but it's disconcerting that my Roamio Pro doesn't seem to have it yet.

I am running 20.3.8 and I've rebooted recently, but still no Opera store shows up for me.


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## AAinCal (Dec 21, 2013)

Marc said:


> Is there some trick necessary to get the Opera store to show up on my Roamio? I understand it's not all that interesting, but it's disconcerting that my Roamio Pro doesn't seem to have it yet.
> 
> I am running 20.3.8 and I've rebooted recently, but still no Opera store shows up for me.


I'm in the same situation. I asked about this yesterday at the end of an online chat with TiVo support on a different matter. The guy said it's rolling out over the holidays but couldn't give me a date for when I should expect anything on my specific Roamio. I suppose we'll get it sooner or later.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> Another thing you could try is enabling QoS on the router for the TiVo. QoS ensures that the packets for a specific IP take priority over packets for other IPs. So basically if you have two devices competing for bandwidth the one with QoS will always win.


I thought so too. As it turns out, unless any/all switches involved honor the QoS tagging, it can be useless. The switches seem to need to specify "Honors IEEE 802.1p priority tags"

I learned this real fast when I hooked up two basictalk VoIP adapters. The QoS stops working at the first non-compliant switch. I have two adapters, on two accounts and two phone numbers. No amount of tweaking the QoS at the Netgear router would work, unless the VoIP adapters were plugged directly into the router.

Newegg has a Netgear A/V series switch solution for this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122363

This would eliminate the VoIP issue. Perhaps the QoS can "sneak through" somehow, when dealing with other devices. I honestly don't know, and am considering getting two of these prioritizing switches to free up router ports, and increase my network's potential.

Bullet points:

Split a single wired Internet connection and connect up to 4 Internet-ready devices
3DHDHigh range and reliability, capable of streaming 3DHD
Full HD 1080pOptimized for streaming full 1080p video from the Internet


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## JeffKusnitz (Apr 9, 2008)

sbiller said:


> Reset the HDUI and it appears.


I don't see the Opera store; I've reset the HDUI, forced connections, and I'm pretty sure rebooted once or twice; am I missing something?

Edit: I guess I'm in the same boat as others, eventually it will get here and I will be initially unimpressed.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

I'm going by what was said upthread a bit.



AAinCal said:


> I'm in the same situation. I asked about this yesterday at the end of an online chat with TiVo support on a different matter. The guy said it's rolling out over the holidays but couldn't give me a date for when I should expect anything on my specific Roamio. I suppose we'll get it sooner or later.


I guess we just have to wait to see it.


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## AAinCal (Dec 21, 2013)

Marc said:


> I'm going by what was said upthread a bit.
> 
> I guess we just have to wait to see it.


Success! I just forced a network connect and rebooted. The Opera Store is now listed in Apps & Games in all its underwhelming glory.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

nooneuknow said:


> I thought so too. As it turns out, unless any/all switches involved honor the QoS tagging, it can be useless. The switches seem to need to specify "Honors IEEE 802.1p priority tags"
> 
> I learned this real fast when I hooked up two basictalk VoIP adapters. The QoS stops working at the first non-compliant switch. I have two adapters, on two accounts and two phone numbers. No amount of tweaking the QoS at the Netgear router would work, unless the VoIP adapters were plugged directly into the router.


Hmmm... did not know that. That could explain why the QoS doesn't seem to have much effect on my Ooma. The Ooma box is down stairs and going through at least 3 switches before it hits the router.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> Hmmm... did not know that. That could explain why the QoS doesn't seem to have much effect on my Ooma. The Ooma box is down stairs and going through at least 3 switches before it hits the router.


I just got (received) two of the AV series prioritizing, and priority flag honoring, switches. I'll be trying them out very soon.

It was my basictalk VoIP adapters that made it clear the QoS router settings were being stopped at the first switch, and I tried every switch of the MANY I have. I had to stick with using two ports on the router, only for each of the two VoIP units (which I hope is going to change now). If I had never bought basictalk VoIP adapters, I'd still be assuming all QoS prioritizing could work with (through) any old/new switch.

I'll let everybody know how they work out for me, and try many configurations, especially with my TiVos. It's rare to see a product on Newegg that has all-egg status. While the number of total reviews are low, they are VERY promising...

More to come, later...


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

nooneuknow said:


> I just got (received) two of the AV series prioritizing, and priority flag honoring, switches. I'll be trying them out very soon.
> 
> It was my basictalk VoIP adapters that made it clear the QoS router settings were being stopped at the first switch, and I tried every switch of the MANY I have. I had to stick with using two ports on the router, only for each of the two VoIP units (which I hope is going to change now). If I had never bought basictalk VoIP adapters, I'd still be assuming all QoS prioritizing could work with (through) any old/new switch.
> 
> ...


Here's the "more":

These things rock! QoS actually works, VoIP, TiVo, Hulu Plus, Netflix all working much better through these "AV series" switches!

I had doubts, but one area that I see a lot of dramatic improvement is during all the scaling transitions when Hulu Plus is switching between commercials and programming (especially when watching SD, and the commercials are HD).

No Netflix reboots so far either. I've swapped in multiple brands of regular computer-grade switches green and not-green, only to see Hulu hang up on scaling transitions, and Netflix reboot the TiVo if the video stream rescales.

It's too early for me to say "buy these switches and Netflix will stop rebooting your TiVo", but I'm hoping to be able to say that's my advice in the future...


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

*More video publishers are a minute away from their own TV apps*

The Opera TV Snap technology is expanding today to even more online video platforms, as Opera Software becomes first in the industry to launch a portal that takes content owners from TV app creation to deployment - for free. Now, even more publishers of online video content can join in the fastest way to reach new audiences on millions of Smart TV devices.

The Opera TV Store has been selected by 11 major television and set-top-box manufacturers including Sony, TiVo and Samsung, as well as pay-TV operators.

Read more: http://www.operasoftware.com/press/releases/devices/2014-03-18-2


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Ooooh, HLS support!


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Philmatic said:


> Ooooh, HLS support!


Is that good?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The current SDK says it supported HLS but when we tried to use it for TiVo it didn't work. When we asked over on the forum they said that TiVo didn't support it only other devices.

HLS, or MPEG Dash, is needed to do a PC based streaming app. It's the only way to do a realtime recode to a format they support.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> The current SDK says it supported HLS but when we tried to use it for TiVo it didn't work. When we asked over on the forum they said that TiVo didn't support it only other devices.
> 
> HLS, or MPEG Dash, is needed to do a PC based streaming app. It's the only way to do a realtime recode to a format they support.


So... path to TiVo Desktop replacement?!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I guess. But we were looking at porting Plex which is basically a DLNA client that allows you to stream any video on your computer, not just .tivo files.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I am trying to figure out what this TiVo Snap is. Is it an updated SDK or just a publishing mechanism.

Seeing HLS as a supported video format is definitely good news...

Some members have played around with the built in Opera TiVo browser, however it seems to have significant limitations when accessed directly. 

I am wondering of that is a deliberate hobbling to prevent user bypassing the store.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I am trying to figure out what this TiVo Snap is. Is it an updated SDK or just a publishing mechanism.
> 
> Seeing HLS as a supported video format is definitely good news...
> 
> ...


I viewed it as a new publishing mechanism that makes it extremely easy and low-cost for publishers to push their content.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

sbiller said:


> I viewed it as a new publishing mechanism that makes it extremely easy and low-cost for publishers to push their content.


 That's what it is. It also, by its very nature, doesn't allow for much flexibility or customization. For large video providers like Hulu or Amazon, this isn't an attractive solution. But if, for instance, you're a video blogger just looking to reach more eyeballs (and get them on a large screen), it's a minimal-effort, zero-cost, low-risk option.

Seems like this is as good a time as any to mention my most recent hobby-project. 
I've been playing around with the TiVo Opera browser for a few months now. It's actually quite nice to work with, at least for non-video content. Its video format support on TiVo is depressing, but it supports quite a lot of modern web technologies. I've got a fairly decent music player mostly finished that uses pyTivo as its server. It's nothing ground-breaking for long time TiVo fanatics that will remember the original TiVo HMO music player, or Galleon, or Harmonium, but I wanted to see what could be done in this new playground . What's really nice about doing the player in html/js/css is that it's not limited to TiVo as a client. While I targeted TiVo first, it turns out that with a little more code, you can access the player under Chrome, Firefox, and Safari on the desktop, as well as iOS Safari. I don't have a Android device to test with, but I'd assume it'll work (or mostly work) on them too. I'm hoping to make it available for pyTivo users to start playing with over the next couple weeks..I'm still working out exactly how the UI should operate on different device screen sizes, but things are shaping up nicely. Work-In-Progress screenshot attached, please ignore the lousy positioning of a lot of the UI widgets, I'm in the middle of rearranging things.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I think that looks great... I am wondering if you considered taking some navigation queues from Pandora? (Without getting into trouble)

I really like the simplicity of that design.

But yes, I would definitely use this.

Rhapsody has a pretty good design as well


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## elmeng (Mar 7, 2009)

How can I clear opera store apps and start with a clean slate.

Been using URL Loader, every mistake is keep, I would like to clear all my entries and put in the ones which work. But there's no support


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## elmeng (Mar 7, 2009)

elmeng said:


> How can I clear opera store apps and start with a clean slate.
> 
> Been using URL Loader, every mistake is keep, I would like to clear all my entries and put in the ones which work. But there's no support


Heard back from [email protected], they said

"The URL Loader app does not allow clearing the list of loaded URLs.
You can achieve this by reverting your TiVo box to factory settings, but this may interfere with otehr functions of the device that you are using."

Anyone know of a better way?


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

elmeng said:


> Heard back from [email protected], they said
> 
> "The URL Loader app does not allow clearing the list of loaded URLs.
> You can achieve this by reverting your TiVo box to factory settings, but this may interfere with otehr functions of the device that you are using."
> ...


I think the only thing you can do is keep adding more 'correct' entries, and the old ones will roll off the list eventually. Tedious.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

elmeng said:


> How can I clear opera store apps and start with a clean slate.
> 
> Been using URL Loader, every mistake is keep, I would like to clear all my entries and put in the ones which work. But there's no support


Have you tried using the Clear button when on the app? Also try Thumbs Down.


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## elmeng (Mar 7, 2009)

JoeKustra said:


> Have you tried using the Clear button when on the app? Also try Thumbs Down.


No, nothing there.

Thanks


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## elmeng (Mar 7, 2009)

gonzotek said:


> I think the only thing you can do is keep adding more 'correct' entries, and the old ones will roll off the list eventually. Tedious.


Fill her up.

TiVo said they could do nothing on their end. Just have to hope the author can update the app to clear old entries.

Thanks


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