# Changes in the TiVo Premiere 20.2.2 update



## TiVoMargret

Hi Community,

This morning we began rolling out the 20.2.2 update for TiVo Premiere (including XL, 4, XL4, and Elite). Many boxes will be authorized for the update today, with more added each day from the priority list. (http://tivo.com/priority).

Note: Only boxes purchased directly from TiVo or through a retailer will be updated at this time. TiVo Premiere boxes provided by a cable company will be updated at a later date.

(To all our customers on the East Coast - stay safe and dry. May you be cozy at home with power and your TiVo!)

Here is a list of changes:

Season Pass Manager
-------------------
The Season Pass Manager screen is now in HD.
* Season Passes that dont have any episodes scheduled to record appear in gray
* Season Passes that have episodes that won't record due to conflicts display "(conflicts)" in the list
* When a Season Pass is highlighted, information on the right side of the screen tells you:
- If there are conflicts that will prevent some episodes from recording
- How many episodes will and wont record
- The current Season Pass settings (New only, Keep at Most, Keep Until, and Start & Stop time)
* Season Passes can be re-ordered by entering numbers using the buttons on the remote control
* When you re-order your Season Pass list, it will automatically update to show if there are any conflicts
* SELECT on a Season Pass in the list will take you to a new Season Pass screen that lets you modify recording options and see "Upcoming" and "Conflicts" lists

To Do List
----------
The HD To Do List has four different views (which can be seen by pressing the red C button on the remote)
* will record & conflicts  includes all shows that will record in the next two weeks AND any shows that wont record because all of the tuners are busy recording other shows at that time (indicated by a red X)
* conflicts - all shows that cant be recorded because all of the tuners are busy at that time
* will record  only includes shows that will record
* all  all individual recordings, WishList matches, and Season Pass shows; including those that wont record because they are duplicates, not new, or have reached your keep at most setting

History
-------
There are three different views of the History screen (which can be seen by pressing the red C button on the remote)
* all  all shows that werent recorded or were deleted
* conflicts  only shows that werent recorded because all of the tuners were busy at that time
* deleted  only shows that were deleted from the DVR
Reason that a show appears in History include:
- "Deleted" (which may appear as "Can Recover" if it is still in the Recently Deleted folder)
- "Canceled" - user canceled the Season Pass or WishList
- "Duplicate" - it has already been recorded
- "Not New" - the Season Pass was set to only record new episodes
- "Limit Reached" - Keep at most limit has been reached, so the oldest episode was deleted
- "Conflict" - couldn't record because all of the tuners were busy

My Shows for Multi-Room Streaming
---------------------------------
The "Remote" My Shows screen is now in HD if you are looking at another TiVo Premiere on your home network.
- Press PLAY on a show in the list to immediately start streaming
- Modify the recording options on the remote DVR from the episode screen
- Set up new recordings on the remote DVR using "Explore this show" from the episode screen.

KidZone removed
---------------
The "KidZone" feature of SD Menus has been removed. It had very low usage (since it only worked in SD Menus) and it was going to be a lot of work to make it compatible with the database technology change we made in this release. We recommend using Parental Controls instead. They work in both SD and HD Menus.

Other changes
-------------
* Grid Guide
- Press LEFT to highlight the channel cell, and then press SELECT for options like "Add to favorites" and "Remove from Channel List"
- Press LEFT from the channel cell to go back in time. The channel cells will move to the right to indicate you are looking at shows that have already aired.

* Mini Guide
- pressing SELECT to bring up the Mini Guide now only works in Live TV (disabled in Recordings)

* Discovery Bar
- Press RECORD on an item to instantly set up a Season Pass
- Press PLAY on an "In My Shows" item to immediately start playing
- THUMBS UP and THUMBS DOWN can be used to rate shows in the Discovery Bar
- The Discovery Bar no longer dims when you transition to another screen. Instead it waits for a period of time to pass before requesting an update.

* Settings
- "Name this DVR" in Settings > Remote, CableCARD, & Devices (yes, "Man Cave" and "Princess Suite" are a couple of the choices. You can still type in a custom name.)
- "Allow Live TV on Other Devices" is to support TiVo Mini

* Other HD screens
- "Set Up a Manual Recording" is now in HD
- "Help" has been updated and is now in HD

* New Games available in "Showcases & Apps"
- Kaboom - find and destroy enemy mines
- Rockswap - line up rocks of the same type
- Quizzmaster - see who has the best general knowledge

* Plus
- The "Categories" item was removed from the bottom of the list on the left side in "Browse TV & Movies"
- A new "One Moment" screen appears when launching an App (previously you saw a black screen)
- "Browse by Time" has been renamed "Find by Time" (in 'Manage Recordings & Downloads')
- "Browse by Channel" has been renamed "Find by Channel" (in 'Manage Recordings & Downloads')
- Stability and performance improvements

We hope you enjoy the latest installment in our series of TiVo Premiere updates. If you have feedback about your TiVo experience please email me at [email protected].


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## mr_smits

Excited for the update. Thanks and keep up the improvements to the Premiere!


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## S3-2501

Thanks for the detailed official list TiVoMargret! I continue to keep my fingers crossed that eventually an update will be released to address the Premiere's inferior handling of OTA signals in environments with lots of dynamic multipath reflections, but it looks like that's not the case with this update. Thanks again though -- it's always best to hear the official word rather being forced to rely on internet speculation!


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## jrtroo

Great stuff. Thanks for the notes, much appreciated.

Love the option to quickly remove a channel. I have lots of clean up to do, and this will save a bunch of time.


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## compnurd

woohoo cant wait!


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## BlackBetty

Just forced a connection. No love for me yet. I signed up my TSN's within an hour once the priority page went live.


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## compnurd

BlackBetty said:


> Just forced a connection. No love for me yet. I signed up my TSN's within an hour once the priority page went live.


I have been forcing also and signed up early too. nothing yet either


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## sbiller

Hi Margret,

Great list! Thank you. 

Can you update us on any performance improvements included with the update?


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## clark_kent

Can I please get some more info on how this works:

"Allow Live TV on Other Devices" is to support TiVo Mini"

Thank you,


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## Drewster

Thanks for the notes!

With this update, is there a way to disable the Discovery Bar?


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## BlackBetty

Pending restart.


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## Kerwin51580

BlackBetty said:


> Pending restart.


Lucky Duck!


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## cherry ghost

BlackBetty said:


> Pending restart.


same


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## compnurd

downloading now


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## xander777

BlackBetty said:


> Pending restart.


Same here. 2 TiVos getting updated. Hope it's faster.


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## andyf

Downloading now on my XL4.


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## tazzmission

Sad no DLNA


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## Balzer

sbiller said:


> Hi Margret,
> 
> Can you update us on any performance improvements included with the update?


They increased the speed of the SDUI.


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## tazzmission

Balzer said:


> They increased the speed of the SDUI.


Really, WTH?


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## BlackBetty

tazzmission said:


> Really, WTH?


I think that's sarcasm.


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## Kerwin51580

I just restarted one and the other is pending restart.


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## cherry ghost

1:15:00 from restart to animation


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## MeInDallas

cherry ghost said:


> 1:15:00 from restart to animation


I was gonna say, this must be a really huge update. My first one has been installing now for about 45 minutes and still going


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## bd177

pending restart


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## Tivogre

My Elite just finished the install and reboot. Took about 1:20.


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## compnurd

40 min on both of mine to download and update


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## tmozer

I just ordered my second Premiere directly from Tivo. Can I expect it to arrive with the update?


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## CoxInPHX

tmozer said:


> I just ordered my second Premiere directly from Tivo. Can I expect it to arrive with the update?


No it will not, It may even be several updates behind.


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## CoxInPHX

45 Min to download the update
1:15 from reboot to animation

Both Elite and Premiere w/ 2TB Upgrade


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## HeatherA

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi Community,
> 
> We hope you enjoy the latest installment in our series of TiVo Premiere updates. If you have feedback about your TiVo experience please email me at [email protected].


Thanks Margret!!! One box being restarted as I type.


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## dughx007

unfortunately, tivo chose to push out this update in the middle of a hurricane on the east coast affecting approx 60 million people, including myself.

both my premieres have reset several times as the power fluctuates, one of those resets initiated the update, which has since been interrupted ... will both of my tivos turn into bricks as a result?

and with the premieres serving as cable boxes, i'm now in the position of having both electric and cable service but no capability to use them to monitor the weather broadcasts, as both boxes are busy installing an hour plus long update that i really don't need or want right now ... i'm also not able to watch pre-recorded shows for entertainment, again because of the update.

it would have been very helpful if there were a customer selectable option to delay or schedule an update, instead of having it happen automatically at such an inopportune time.


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## wmcbrine

I just want to note that the new games, although pushed out in conjunction with the update, are not dependent on it. I'm sitting at Pending Restart, but the games already appear, and are working for me. No icons though.


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## crxssi

dughx007 said:


> unfortunately, tivo chose to push out this update in the middle of a hurricane on the east coast affecting approx 60 million people, including myself.
> 
> both my premieres have reset several times as the power fluctuates, one of those resets initiated the update, which has since been interrupted ... will both of my tivos turn into bricks as a result?


I suggest you purchase a UPS. Mine is on one (a medium sized), along with my computer, cable modem, router, TV, and even stereo. A small one for just the TiVo would run less than $50 and the battery should be good for 3 to 4 years.


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## Teeps

dughx007 said:


> both my premieres have reset several times as the power fluctuates, one of those resets initiated the update, which has since been interrupted ... will both of my tivos turn into bricks as a result?


I doubt the power interruptions will cause your TiVos to fail.

Power interruptions are why all of my sensitive electronics are connected to UPS's.


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## CoxInPHX

Season Pass Manager can now update in the background, YEA :up:


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## hairyblue

My Tivo is now installing the update. I love that Tivo is making their product better. I get excited for new features. Thanks Margret.


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## overFEDEXed

Margret,

On my updated Premiere and Elite, I don't see my 'Now Playing" list from my computer any more. Should I just reboot or did I miss something?

Thanks


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## Gary-B

Wish I wouldn't have put my name on the list for first release. Even though I have groups on, The folder "To Tivo" which I use Tivo Desktop to transfer, won't "group" the shows. Lists every show as To Tivo, you have to look on the right hand side to see what the show is.


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## bradleys

My Shows for Multi-Room Streaming is probably the biggest update for multi TiVo homes - I suppose it is time to update one of my TiVo HDs...

I do wish we had been able to get pytivo to mimic a premier box (streaming and my shows)! That would have been a huge upgrade, for me anyway!


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## innocentfreak

overFEDEXed said:


> Margret,
> 
> On my updated Premiere and Elite, I don't see my 'Now Playing" list from my computer any more. Should I just reboot or did I miss something?
> 
> Thanks


Sometimes you just need to restart TiVo Desktop/PyTiVo. I have seen it when I rebooted a TiVo that it no longer knew Now Playing was available. Sometimes even just rebooting the switch or router will fix it.


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## bradleys

Gary-B said:


> Wish I wouldn't have put my name on the list for first release. Even though I have groups on, The folder "To Tivo" which I use Tivo Desktop to transfer, won't "group" the shows. Lists every show as To Tivo, you have to look on the right hand side to see what the show is.


These are shows you have transferred to you TiVo using TiVo Desktop?


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## Gary-B

Yes, Using Tivo Desktop. It seems any shows transfered won't group. I had 3 groups listed and after the update, I have 59 "To Tivos" and the other groups now list the folder name 8 or 9 times.
Going to be a pain to figure out which one to watch is next.


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## CoxInPHX

Gary-B said:


> Wish I wouldn't have put my name on the list for first release. Even though I have groups on, The folder "To Tivo" which I use Tivo Desktop to transfer, won't "group" the shows. Lists every show as To Tivo, you have to look on the right hand side to see what the show is.


All my "Pushes" got un-grouped too.

All my "Pulls" stayed grouped. All done via pyTivo


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## overFEDEXed

Gary-B said:


> Wish I wouldn't have put my name on the list for first release. Even though I have groups on, The folder "To Tivo" which I use Tivo Desktop to transfer, won't "group" the shows. Lists every show as To Tivo, you have to look on the right hand side to see what the show is.


Gary,

I noticed the same thing and posted in the other thread.

I'm going to create another Auto transfer folder, send two movies over and then post my results.


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## cherry ghost

CoxInPHX said:


> All my "Pushes" got un-grouped too.
> 
> All my "Pulls" stayed grouped. All done via pyTivo


same

I'm going to push something already on there and see what happens


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## overFEDEXed

CoxInPHX said:


> All my "Pushes" got un-grouped too.
> 
> All my "Pulls" stayed grouped. All done via pyTivo


Mine were done just with Tivo Desktop.


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## overFEDEXed

bradleys said:


> These are shows you have transferred to you TiVo using TiVo Desktop?


Mine were done with Tivo Desktop.


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## aaronwt

dughx007 said:


> unfortunately, tivo chose to push out this update in the middle of a hurricane on the east coast affecting approx 60 million people, including myself.
> 
> both my premieres have reset several times as the power fluctuates, one of those resets initiated the update, which has since been interrupted ... will both of my tivos turn into bricks as a result?
> 
> and with the premieres serving as cable boxes, i'm now in the position of having both electric and cable service but no capability to use them to monitor the weather broadcasts, as both boxes are busy installing an hour plus long update that i really don't need or want right now ... i'm also not able to watch pre-recorded shows for entertainment, again because of the update.
> 
> it would have been very helpful if there were a customer selectable option to delay or schedule an update, instead of having it happen automatically at such an inopportune time.


It updated automatically in the middle of the day? Typically restarts occur at 2AM. All of my boxes had pending restarts but I had to manually initiate them since it wasn't 2AM yet. Al mine are on UPSs too. I would never update ANY electronic device without it being connected to a UPS first.

Edit: I misread this. I see the power fluctuation reset the box which started the install. More reason why a TiVo should always be connected to a UPS. All my electronic devices are connected to a UPS. in the eleven years I've used TiVos, I've always had them connected to a UPS. Even when I used VCRs I had them connected to a UPS. Well at least since the mid 90's.


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## overFEDEXed

innocentfreak said:


> Sometimes you just need to restart TiVo Desktop/PyTiVo. I have seen it when I rebooted a TiVo that it no longer knew Now Playing was available. Sometimes even just rebooting the switch or router will fix it.


Thanks. I will try that in a few. Right now I'm "Pushing" two movies over to a new folder, that I just created. I want to see if they "Group"


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## overFEDEXed

cherry ghost said:


> same
> 
> I'm going to push something already on there and see what happens


My new pushes grouped. The names are correct also. I just created the new folder and dropped two, old movies in there.

I have 60 or so movies that WERE in folders. I guess that I will have to move some of them over again to another folder.


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## Gary-B

Ok, made a new folder on my computer and have Tivo Desktop push a few shows. It now groups ok on the New fold, still left with a mess from the old folders. Guess I need to take a week off and catch up on my shows


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## aaronwt

I really like these new menus. I'm still waiting for my two other boxes to finish updating so I can check out the new screens when viewing the box remotely.


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## bd177

Gary-B said:


> Wish I wouldn't have put my name on the list for first release. Even though I have groups on, The folder "To Tivo" which I use Tivo Desktop to transfer, won't "group" the shows. Lists every show as To Tivo, you have to look on the right hand side to see what the show is.


I noticed the same thing. As a test I created another folder and put 2 mpg files in it. They then showed up as a single folder with 2 titles in it like it used to.


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## Rob Helmerichs

So far, so pretty.

It will be nice being able to do more stuff while still watching the shows.


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## scandia101

Some people are saying 45 minutes to download. Mine was downloaded in about 2 minutes. I did a restart and 20 minutes later it was ready to go.


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## overFEDEXed

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So far, so pretty.
> 
> It will be nice being able to do more stuff while still watching the shows.


I even went to my Premiere, from my Elite and jumped on Netflix. It worked perfect.

I'm guessing that's how it will work with the Mini also. Mini to Elite of course.


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## Ed_Hunt

This is really going to be a pain. I spent all day Saturday transferring a whole lot of series to the Tivo. It grouped them perfectly and then the update killed the folders. Everything transferred with Tivo desk top is now in a big long list. What makes it worse is I just today deleted everything from my computer. Im hoping but not holding out hope, that something will happen once everything settles in.


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## Rob Helmerichs

I had some weirdness in my Season Pass Manager (first none of them had any information, then some of them had as their title something like "Corrupt; delete"). Fortunately, I suspected weirdness was afoot instead of actual corrupt SPs, and sure enough an hour later everything was fine.

So there seems to be at least some processing that takes place after the update is up and running.


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## crxssi

scandia101 said:


> Some people are saying 45 minutes to download. Mine was downloaded in about 2 minutes. I did a restart and 20 minutes later it was ready to go.


Mine took around 5 min to load and then 45 minutes to post-process the download (you know, sit on 99% forever.) By the time that was done, it started recording something and then pushed me into a time I could not reboot (plus I am afraid the reboot/upgrade would take a long, long time).


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## [email protected]

1 hr 30 min from reboot to animation for me. Usually if it takes longer than 20 - 30 minutes its is re indexing. This must have been a massive re-index of pretty much everything having to do with the season pass list, the todo, and the program info.

The season pass list is quicker to get in to and out of. And changes are done in the background. Used to take 15 min or more for a minor re-prioritization.


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## Rob Helmerichs

Here's an odd little bug...the To Do list doesn't reflect the time switch when DST ends. The individual listings are correct, but from 11/4 on, the list itself is an hour off. I.e., a show that starts at 6:00 will be in the To Do list as 7:00, but when you highlight it the information says 6:00.


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## Balzer

tazzmission said:


> Really, WTH?


Yea... it was a bad joke. Sorry.


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## wmcbrine

TiVoMargret said:


> The "Remote" My Shows screen is now in HD if you are looking at another TiVo Premiere on your home network.


I guess this only works if both ends are upgraded?



Balzer said:


> They increased the speed of the SDUI.


It actually does seem faster. I haven't really measured it though.


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## MeInDallas

I noticed this too, especially when deleting shows, they disappear super fast. The icons in the suggestions folder are different as well.


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## nrc

[email protected] said:


> The season pass list is quicker to get in to and out of. And changes are done in the background. Used to take 15 min or more for a minor re-prioritization.


That's a big deal and a long awaited change. :up:


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## overFEDEXed

Ed_Hunt said:


> This is really going to be a pain. I spent all day Saturday transferring a whole lot of series to the Tivo. It grouped them perfectly and then the update killed the folders. Everything transferred with Tivo desk top is now in a big long list. What makes it worse is I just today deleted everything from my computer. Im hoping but not holding out hope, that something will happen once everything settles in.


Before I went to sleep last night, I set 22 Movies up to transfer back over to my Elite. This morning, not six hours later, everything was back. It was just 81 Gigs.
I was lucky that I kept a copy of all my stuff. I did see where one guy here had just erased all of his video.

Also, I do like seeing the "Allow live tv from other devices" setting. Do you all think that the Mini is just around the corner?


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## slowbiscuit

TiVoMargret said:


> We hope you enjoy the latest installment in our series of TiVo Premiere updates. If you have feedback about your TiVo experience please email me at [email protected].


Sure would be nice to get a list of bugfixes (or at least ones you think are fixed) in addition to the list of new stuff. Specifically, was the 'HDUI losing pause/resume points in ongoing recordings' bug fixed? And what about the Elite tuner issues with channels? What about the random page up/down SDUI lockups?

Thanks for providing any update at all, however. This is a refreshing change from the past couple of years before the 20.x software where little info came out about the changes.


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## timbest

BRING BACK THE KIDZONE! How do I get it back? My kids use it every day!


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## compnurd

timbest said:


> BRING BACK THE KIDZONE! How do I get it back? My kids use it every day!


it was removed with this update


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## aaronwt

scandia101 said:


> Some people are saying 45 minutes to download. Mine was downloaded in about 2 minutes. I did a restart and 20 minutes later it was ready to go.


All my boxes took around 45 minutes from me initiating a restart to the update finishing and the THX/TiVo animation coming up.


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## mr_smits

Here's a note for people with multiple Premiere boxes: the new multi-room view screens are only available if the remote box (and maybe both boxes?) have been updated. I updated one Premiere and expected to see the new screens but did not until I updated the remote box I was attempting to stream from.

Possible bug or just a setting reset due to the update: the beeps and boops sounds seem to have returned on the Premiere that I have in my bedroom. The setting had been turned off.


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## Leon WIlkinson

Well You can go into a remote premiere and change season passes cool, on our way to a cooperative season passes/recording between premieres.?.?


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## innocentfreak

Leon WIlkinson said:


> Well You can go into a remote premiere and change season passes cool, on our way to a cooperative season passes/recording between premieres.?.?


Hopefully, but I would say more in preparation of the Mini where you would need to be able to do these things remotely.


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## lessd

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Here's an odd little bug...the To Do list doesn't reflect the time switch when DST ends. The individual listings are correct, but from 11/4 on, the list itself is an hour off. I.e., a show that starts at 6:00 will be in the To Do list as 7:00, but when you highlight it the information says 6:00.


I saw that bug last night but gave it time to correct itself, it got worse, now the start times are correct up to Saturday November 3rd than the start times go form the end time to 1/2 hour after the end time, on the right of the screen the info about the program is correct giving you the correct start and stop times.
The HDUI is still to slow for me, and the new HDUI stuff I don't need, I mean it is cool to see the deleted items and set up recordings on a remote TiVo (and to name your TiVo without having to go to your TiVo account on the Web, how many time does one do that, once?) but my use of the new HD functions would be so little that I don't want to put up with the slow HDUI menus and the time it takes to change HDUI menus so I am back to the snappy SDUI. After all 95% of my TiVo time is watching what i recorded, not play with the menus.
I just hope that TiVo keeps the SDUI, if a Series 5 came out the HDUI menus would have to be at least 6X or more faster for me to upgrade because i will assume that the SDUI will be gone from any Series 5 and newer models of TiVo.


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## overFEDEXed

innocentfreak said:


> Hopefully, but I would say more in preparation of the Mini where you would need to be able to do these things remotely.


Since it now gives you the ability to allocate tuners, how long do you all think it will be before we see the mini?


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## innocentfreak

overFEDEXed said:


> Since it now gives you the ability to allocate tuners, how long do you all think it will be before we see the mini?


Oh I have no idea. I still think it won't be until February 2013 or so. We are just too close to the holidays to roll it out especially since the initial priority roll out just started. It usually takes a couple weeks for the roll out to complete. Then you have CES in January so it would make sense if it was after that.


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## button1066

innocentfreak said:


> Oh I have no idea. I still think it won't be until February 2013 or so. We are just too close to the holidays to roll it out especially since the initial priority roll out just started. It usually takes a couple weeks for the roll out to complete. Then you have CES in January so it would make sense if it was after that.


I don't know. Sounds like it might be coming soon. The stream release took me by surprise and maybe the mini release will too.

I was going to try to resist the temptation of buying a mini but now the evidence of its actual implementation is starting to appear I can feel my resolve slipping.


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## overFEDEXed

innocentfreak said:


> Oh I have no idea. I still think it won't be until February 2013 or so. We are just too close to the holidays to roll it out especially since the initial priority roll out just started. It usually takes a couple weeks for the roll out to complete. Then you have CES in January so it would make sense if it was after that.


Thanks, wishful thinking I guess. I also think it's cool how you can remote into another Premiere and jump on Netflix.
Not that it does anything for us.


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## jtmal0723

I found what could be a bug.... When you utilize the thumbs rating, the length/date/time underneath the show title moves with the show title above it... I have attached an image of the demonstration...


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## sbiller

overFEDEXed said:


> Thanks, wishful thinking I guess. I also think it's cool how you can remote into another Premiere and jump on Netflix.
> Not that it does anything for us.


The capability to jump on Netflix via a remote is probably in place to support Previews & Mini's as well. Full Mini functionality will require dynamic tuner hijacking which is clearly not present in this build.


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## jtmal0723

I found what could be a bug.... When you utilize the thumbs rating, the length/date/time underneath the show title moves with the show title above it... I have attached an image of the demonstration...


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## morac

For future reference, please don't push out an update when there is potential for wide-spread power outages in a large region of the country. Maybe the TiVo hardware can handle a power outage during an install, but that just seems like asking for trouble.

Other than that the update is much appreciated, especially the conflict indicators. Speaking of which,



TiVoMargret said:


> Reason that a show appears in History include:
> - "Deleted" (which may appear as "Can Recover" if it is still in the Recently Deleted folder)
> - "Canceled" - user canceled the Season Pass or WishList
> - "Duplicate" - it has already been recorded
> - "Not New" - the Season Pass was set to only record new episodes
> - "Limit Reached" - Keep at most limit has been reached, so the oldest episode was deleted
> - "Conflict" - couldn't record because all of the tuners were busy


This is very nice, but from what I can tell the default for the above appears to be "Conflict" as there are a large number of entries in my History list that give a reason of "conflict", but when I press info on them the true reason is that the program was no longer in the guide data (i.e. schedule change).


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## mr_smits

morac said:


> For future reference, please don't push out an update when there is potential for wide-spread power outages in a large region of the country. Maybe the TiVo hardware can handle a power outage during an install, but that just seems like asking for trouble.


It's pretty funny how East Coasters think they are the center of the universe (Tivo related and not).


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## sharkster

Drewster said:


> Thanks for the notes!
> 
> With this update, is there a way to disable the Discovery Bar?


That is my number one wish!!


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## morac

mr_smits said:


> It's pretty funny how East Coasters think they are the center of the universe (Tivo related and not).


It's not simply that. It's simply the huge number of people affected (millions up and down the coast lost power). Plus the fact that a large number of data centers were shut down (many hosted in NYC). People not on the East Coast, don't realize how bad this storm actually was.

If there was a huge earthquake in California the same thing would apply (am I'm willing to bet TiVo wouldn't have pushed out the update in that case).


----------



## mr_smits

I'm sure the storm is bad or even worse than what I imagine. The fact is this storm will have power out for many for days, weeks, or longer. Tivo delaying a rollout due to that would just be a bad business decision. Life goes on even if a hurricane hit a portion of this country. 


If there was a large earthquake that impacted Tivo HQ and their ability to provide business services, then I bet they would delay a rollout. Most companies that need 100% up time have redundant systems in place in case of natural disasters.


----------



## jtag48

Really like the new To Do List and Season Pass Manager!


----------



## morac

mr_smits said:


> I'm sure the storm is bad or even worse than what I imagine. The fact is this storm will have power out for many for days, weeks, or longer. Tivo delaying a rollout due to that would just be a bad business decision. Life goes on even if a hurricane hit a portion of this country.
> 
> If there was a large earthquake that impacted Tivo HQ and their ability to provide business services, then I bet they would delay a rollout. Most companies that need 100% up time have redundant systems in place in case of natural disasters.


I didn't say delay it days or weeks, just don't push it out the day of the storm. If TiVo pushed it out today, after people lost power, it wouldn't be a big deal, since those without power simply wouldn't get it. Pushing it out _as_ people were losing power such that the install kicked off because of an outage or worse power failed during the install (potentially bricking a lot of devices) demonstrates a lack of insight. People are already being negatively affected by the storm. If the update bricks someone's TiVo that just adds insult to injury, for no good reason. I don't see how putting off the update by a day would cause TiVo any harm.

That's all I have to say about this since it's off-topic and was just a suggestion.


----------



## Jonathan_S

clark_kent said:


> Can I please get some more info on how this works:
> 
> "Allow Live TV on Other Devices" is to support TiVo Mini"
> 
> Thank you,


I suspect this setting controls whether a TiVo Mini can permanently grab a tuner for streaming liveTV.

(Initial TiVo Mini software reportedly can only stream live TV if it's allowed to permanently grab a tuner; leaving the Premiere 4/4XL/Elite with only three for it's own use)

If you set this new setting to 'no' on the main TiVo then I assume it overrides any configuration from the TiVo Mini. So if you don't grant permission from the main TiVo (by setting this new option to 'yes') no Mini can 'steal' a tuner.


----------



## tivoknucklehead

I love the HD season pass manager page, and really love being able to reorder by number rather than the old drag method


----------



## scandia101

morac said:


> Maybe the TiVo hardware can handle a power outage during an install, but *that just seems like asking for trouble*.


As does using electronics such as a Tivo during times of predictably unreliable electricity. Unplug it and read a book.


----------



## sharkster

Both of mine were on 'waiting for restart' so I punched them through. Oops, forgot about the 'this may take up to an hour, etc' thing...I could have timed that out better. But I'm looking forward to the updates. Last I recall, it never took anywhere near an hour anyway.


----------



## Rebate_King

sharkster said:


> Both of mine were on 'waiting for restart' so I punched them through. Oops, forgot about the 'this may take up to an hour, etc' thing...I could have timed that out better. But I'm looking forward to the updates. Last I recall, it never took anywhere near an hour anyway.


It takes about 45 minutes.


----------



## jtag48

Just under an hour for this update.


----------



## Rebate_King

I love the new feature of being able to ignore a channel from the grid guide. I sorted the grid guide on channel name, and then went through it and when ever I had an HD channel that also had non HD version, I quickly was able to ignore/remove those non HD channels. :up::up:


----------



## sharkster

Well, that took just shy of a half hour so that was good. 

The only things that have already jumped out at me that I'm not loving are 1) That damnable discovery bar thing cannot be opted out of; and 2) One show I had scheduled to record (and fit just fine in the schedule with other shows) now says it will NOT record because of conflicts (of which there are none). So I just found another airing and it's fine but I cannot delete the one that says it's no longer good. kind of odd...

The Discovery Bar thing makes no sense to me because I went in when I first got the Premieres and UNchecked all the choices, figuring that would make them go away but it didn't and it still doesn't. It's not the worst thing in the world, but I just find it annoying and cluttery.


----------



## DBLClick

By for this is the best update to the Premiere so far. The way you integrated the streaming to be seamless in operation between multiple Premiere's is fabulous. 

Keep up the good work.


----------



## jrtroo

sharkster said:


> The Discovery Bar thing makes no sense to me because I went in when I first got the Premieres and UNchecked all the choices, figuring that would make them go away but it didn't and it still doesn't. It's not the worst thing in the world, but I just find it annoying and cluttery.


It generates revenue- my guess is that expecting it to go away is an exercise in futility.

Personally, I like it on appropriate screens and now that it does not seem to hiccup when drawing each page.


----------



## innocentfreak

sharkster said:


> Well, that took just shy of a half hour so that was good.
> 
> The only things that have already jumped out at me that I'm not loving are 1) That damnable discovery bar thing cannot be opted out of; and 2) One show I had scheduled to record (and fit just fine in the schedule with other shows) now says it will NOT record because of conflicts (of which there are none). So I just found another airing and it's fine but I cannot delete the one that says it's no longer good. kind of odd...
> 
> The Discovery Bar thing makes no sense to me because I went in when I first got the Premieres and UNchecked all the choices, figuring that would make them go away but it didn't and it still doesn't. It's not the worst thing in the world, but I just find it annoying and cluttery.


Unfortunately I don't see them ever removing the Discovery Bar.

Is it possible the show had a schedule change or one of the other shows is now running a little later causing a conflict? What happens if you try to force it to record the original timeslot?


----------



## Gene S

Was surprised this morning when I woke up, and all 4 of my tuners were on Channel 2, so I knew I got the update and restart. 

The new HD menus are nice. But still surprised that not ALL of them are HD yet. How many years has it been?

I noticed I no longer have the channel icons in the guide in the upper right corner. (ABC, NBC, etc.) I've recently moved and have been relying on those icons to know what channel is what lol.


----------



## crxssi

Rebate_King said:


> I love the new feature of being able to ignore a channel from the grid guide. I sorted the grid guide on channel name, and then went through it and when ever I had an HD channel that also had non HD version, I quickly was able to ignore/remove those non HD channels. :up::up:


Yes, this is pretty fantastic. Probably one of the best things in the update. I hated having to use the old channel controls because I don't know what the channel is based on only a stupid 4 character ID. Now I know not only the full channel name, but samples of what is on it too.

I verified when you "remove it from listing" on the grid, it does uncheck the channel in the real channel listing in settings. It is too bad this is not somehow available in the non-grid guide also.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

I see a good reason not to get rid of the discovery bar. If you go and play remote show and hit livetv then use the guide and setup a recording or season pass it will be recorded on the remote premier

Edit: a single recording goes to the box you are on.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

You have to go into TiVo central. Someway to get away from recording season pass on the remote TiVo.


----------



## moyekj

For those with more than 1 series 4 unit this is truly a great update. Some examples of things you can now do while browsing a remote Series 4 unit:
* Play shortcut now works (no need select show and choose play from menu)
* Recently Deleted folder of remote unit is visible and you can recover shows from it
* You can now schedule season passes on the remote unit and you can also change existing season pass options or remove season passes

No doubt a lot of this more co-operative unit functionality is in preparation for the Mini.

(Even though the Mini is not released it would be interesting if a Premiere could hijack a tuner from an Elite/XL4 since it looks like there is a menu option on Elite/XL4 to give up a tuner for another device).


----------



## moyekj

Leon WIlkinson said:


> I see a good reason not to get rid of the discovery bar. If you go and play remote show and hit livetv then use the guide and setup a recording or season pass it will be recorded on the remote premier
> 
> Edit: a single recording goes to the box you are on.


You can still make a single recording happen on the remote box as well. Just choose "Season Pass & other options" instead of "Record this episode". i.e. Record this episode will record on local box, but anything you setup under "Season Pass & other options" will record on remote box.


----------



## crxssi

Leon WIlkinson said:


> I see a good reason not to get rid of the discovery bar. If you go and play remote show and hit livetv then use the guide and setup a recording or season pass it will be recorded on the remote premier.


Nobody has asked to get rid of the discovery bar. But what many have all asked for is the ability, the right, the choice to turn it off. I, for one, completely understand why some people would want it on. But hopefully, those people can also completely understand why some other people would want it off. An option setting would make everyone happy.

Choice is good.


----------



## PedjaR

TiVoMargret said:


> ...
> * Mini Guide
> - pressing SELECT to bring up the Mini Guide now only works in Live TV (disabled in Recordings)
> ...


So SelectPlaySelect codes can now work normally in HDUI? I could not get them to work in HDUI, even with extra Select to start with.


----------



## moyekj

PedjaR said:


> So SelectPlaySelect codes can now work normally in HDUI? I could not get them to work in HDUI, even with extra Select to start with.


 Yes. (But I could get it working previously with extra select). Of course the one annoying exception is SPSPS (quick clear of play bar) which still requires either a Pause Ad or has to be entered from a showcase video in order to work. Nothing has changed for that annoyance with this release.


----------



## PedjaR

moyekj said:


> Yes. (But I could get it working previously with extra select). Of course the one annoying exception is SPSPS (quick clear of play bar) which still requires either a Pause Ad or has to be entered from a showcase video in order to work. Nothing has changed for that annoyance with this release.


That's the one (SPSPS) I was talking about. I had to go to SDUI to make it work. Glad to hear it is fixed.


----------



## wmcbrine

mr_smits said:


> It's pretty funny how East Coasters think they are the center of the universe (Tivo related and not).


It's got about 37% of the U.S. population.


----------



## HookdOnTivonics

The new version seems to have a much faster UI. Yea!

Unfortunately, one annoyance has replaced another while deleting suggestions. I'm using SDUI. The old annoyance of "no shows found" or whatever the message was when deleting shows quickly seems to have been eliminated. 

The new annoyance is that pressing clear deletes the show and then the cursor jumps an extra show.
For example:
highlight show #1
press clear
show #1 is deleted
show #2 becomes #1
show #3 becomes #2 and has focus

IMO, the new show #2 should have focus, otherwise you have to press clear, up, clear, up, clear, up.... to delete several consecutive shows.


----------



## MichaelK

HookdOnTivonics said:


> The new version seems to have a much faster UI. Yea!
> 
> Unfortunately, one annoyance has replaced another while deleting suggestions. I'm using SDUI. The old annoyance of "no shows found" or whatever the message was when deleting shows quickly seems to have been eliminated.
> 
> The new annoyance is that pressing clear deletes the show and then the cursor jumps an extra show.
> For example:
> highlight show #1
> press clear
> show #1 is deleted
> show #2 becomes #1
> show #3 becomes #2 and has focus
> 
> IMO, the new show #2 should have focus, otherwise you have to press clear, up, clear, up, clear, up.... to delete several consecutive shows.


honestly- and not to be argumentative- i dont think they care one bit about anyone with SDUI preference. They nuked kidzone. Never mind not add new stuff but now they are actively killing stuff off (because it's in the way)- i wouldn't be surprised if eventually with a software update that it isn't even an option.


----------



## astrohip

[email protected] said:


> The season pass list is quicker to get in to and out of. And changes are done in the background.


Strangely, in the SDUI, SP changes still process real-time, locking up the TiVo until it's done. While I understand only HD menus are getting new features, it's surprising that processing chores are handled differently based on UI.



lessd said:


> The HDUI is still to slow for me, and the new HDUI stuff I don't need, I mean it is cool to see the deleted items and set up recordings on a remote TiVo (and to name your TiVo without having to go to your TiVo account on the Web, how many time does one do that, once?) but my use of the new HD functions would be so little that I don't want to put up with the slow HDUI menus and the time it takes to change HDUI menus so I am back to the snappy SDUI.* After all 95% of my TiVo time is watching what i recorded, not play with the menus.*


This, a 1000 times this. I tried the HDUI today after the update, and really love some of the new features. The To-Do list with conflict display is very cool, and much needed. Sadly, it is still slow compared to the SDUI, and menu speed is all that matters to me.


----------



## dtyree

applying the update now


----------



## brentil

TiVoMargret said:


> KidZone removed
> ---------------
> The "KidZone" feature of SD Menus has been removed. It had very low usage (since it only worked in SD Menus) and it was going to be a lot of work to make it *compatible with the database technology change we made in this release*. We recommend using Parental Controls instead. They work in both SD and HD Menus.


This comment makes me very curious if this was related to major schema changes or if they really did change the underlying database engine technology...


----------



## porges

In My Shows, with Groups on, my Suggestions aren't there - there's no group or anything. In Groups-off view they are all there as individual items.


----------



## lessd

astrohip said:


> Strangely, in the SDUI, SP changes still process real-time, locking up the TiVo until it's done. While I understand only HD menus are getting new features, it's surprising that processing chores are handled differently based on UI.
> 
> This, a 1000 times this. I tried the HDUI today after the update, and really love some of the new features. The To-Do list with conflict display is very cool, and much needed. Sadly, it is still slow compared to the SDUI, and menu speed is all that matters to me.


I think that when TiVo goes to a Series 5 they will speed the system about a factor of about 10X, that will make the HDUI as fast as the SDUI, and i would guess that the Series 5 will not have any SDUI option. For example it takes about 4-5 seconds to go from *my shows *to the list of shows on my TiVo in the HDUI, and less than 1 second in the SDUI.


----------



## HookdOnTivonics

MichaelK said:


> honestly- and not to be argumentative- i dont think they care one bit about anyone with SDUI preference. They nuked kidzone. Never mind not add new stuff but now they are actively killing stuff off (because it's in the way)- i wouldn't be surprised if eventually with a software update that it isn't even an option.


This seems like a silly off by one error that got introduced when they fixed the "no shows" problem.
This is our 7th (1 S1, 2 S2, 1 S3, 1 HD, and now 2 elites) TiVo in 12+ years. Maybe I'm just an old geezer, but I like the SDUI. I don't need to see live TV or other shows I might like while I'm looking for something in Now Playing, and the overlay guide is just fine by me.


----------



## Arcady

The HDUI finally has an acceptable WAF here. Yay!


----------



## lrhorer

morac said:


> I didn't say delay it days or weeks, just don't push it out the day of the storm. If TiVo pushed it out today, after people lost power, it wouldn't be a big deal, since those without power simply wouldn't get it. Pushing it out _as_ people were losing power such that the install kicked off because of an outage or worse power failed during the install (potentially bricking a lot of devices) demonstrates a lack of insight.


The design of the TiVo should ordinarily prevent such a thing. The loss of power at any stage of an upgrade should not cause the TiVo to fail.

Note first of all, *getting* the update is entirely non service affecting. Indeed, the entire download does not have to happen all at once. Multiple slices are transferred to the TiVo, and the validity of each slice is verified before the TiVo begins the upgrade process, usually several hours after the last download. When the upgrade process is performed nothing on the active OS partitions is modified. The TiVo stores its kernel in partitions 3 and 6. If 3 contains the current kernel, then the new kernel is written to 6, and vice versa. The current kernel remains unchanged. Only after the new kernel and the new root are verified is the first sector of the hard drive written to switch the active kernel and root partitions to the alternate. By the same token, the TiVo stores its root data in partitions 4 and 7. If 4 is active, the new binaries, scripts, and configuration files are written to 7, and vice versa, and none of the active files are touched. The new files are verified, and only then, after both the kernel and the applications are deemed good is the boot page written to switch the active partitions from the old pair to the new. After that, clean-up is instituted and the TiVo is rebooted. The boot page operation takes only a fraction of a microsecond from the time the first bit is overwritten until the 4096th bit is written, and only if the power fails just at the right moment prior to the start of the write will the boot page be borked. The window is less than 40 nanoseconds. Any failure prior or subsequent to that window will not result in a bricked TiVo. It is a literal billion-to-one shot. Many, many people have had their upgrades hang or had the TiVo's power cut during an upgrade. I've had my TiVos hang during an upgrade quite a few times. I don't recall ever seeing anyone whose TiVo was bricked by an interrupted upgrade.

Its also easy to fix a borked bootpage.


----------



## lrhorer

morac said:


> For future reference, please don't push out an update when there is potential for wide-spread power outages in a large region of the country. Maybe the TiVo hardware can handle a power outage during an install


It's not the hardware. The hardware isn't much different from any other consumer grade system. It's the software. It's almost completely impervious to power failures, even during an upgrade.



morac said:


> but that just seems like asking for trouble.


One in a billion times or so. See my last post. There is certainly no reason to delay the roll-out.


----------



## lrhorer

scandia101 said:


> As does using electronics such as a Tivo during times of predictably unreliable electricity. Unplug it and read a book.


In the dark?


----------



## eddieb187

Thanks for posting the changes Margret.
Never would have found all those.
Would be missing out.
Some really nice additions!!!!


----------



## nrc

jtmal0723 said:


> I found what could be a bug.... When you utilize the thumbs rating, the length/date/time underneath the show title moves with the show title above it... I have attached an image of the demonstration...


This may be a deliberate choice to maintain readability.


----------



## jcthorne

astrohip said:


> Strangely, in the SDUI, SP changes still process real-time, locking up the TiVo until it's done. While I understand only HD menus are getting new features, it's surprising that processing chores are handled differently based on UI.
> 
> This, a 1000 times this. I tried the HDUI today after the update, and really love some of the new features. The To-Do list with conflict display is very cool, and much needed. Sadly, it is still slow compared to the SDUI, and menu speed is all that matters to me.


The HDUI will never be as fast as the SDUI on the same box. With the latests updates, for the most part, the HDUI is now as fast or faster than the SDUI on a TivoHD. IE they have made it just as usable as the old SDUI was when abandoned. Expect the SDUI to go away at some point. They have stopped development and are removing any parts of it that interfere with new programming.


----------



## mrschimpf

Love it so far, though I have noticed a bug; downloaded podcasts and web video no longer are grouped in folders, so now they all show up individually in My Shows no matter what sort type is used. Probably something to be fixed quickly. Also really not a fan of sounds during 'channel up/down' changes.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

jcthorne said:


> Expect the SDUI to go away at some point. They have stopped development and are removing any parts of it that interfere with new programming.


This here, is why I gave my Aunt (slight, but progressive Dementia) my old TiVoHD who lived with me which went to a home.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Looks like the losing pause/resume place issue with ongoing recordings in HDUI is fixed.

EDIT: I've also noticed that 30-sec skip is pretty snappy on my Elite now. Looks like they got rid of that slight lag and it's almost instant, both forward and back.


----------



## chiguy50

It may be just a coincidence, but I have noticed a very significant improvement in the Reed-Solomon error count in both my Premiere and Premiere Elite since getting the update yesterday.

Ever since I had some individual channel signal outages or pixelation issues several months ago, I have been checking the RS corrected/uncorrected values periodically on both my TiVo's. While I have not experienced any noticeable video anomalies in the intervening months, I have seen the RS error counts occasionally reach the 100K's and even the millions. Typically, however, the numbers stayed below the six figures but seldom under 1K. (S/N ratio is a steady 37/38dB and signal strength usually ranges between 92 and 96.) I was concerned enough that I removed my splitters and replaced all my coaxial cables with high-quality new ones in order to eliminate those possible sources of the signal problem.

Since the update my RS uncorrected counts on all six tuners are typically 0 or 1. I have NEVER seen this before and have to believe that something in the update has positively affected the tuner efficiency.

Can anyone else shed some light on this or corroborate my findings?


----------



## drebbe

I've noticed something similar. I often had counts in the low thousands of corrected RS errors and < 100 uncorrected RS errors. After the 20.2.2 update the counts have been 0 for both corrected and uncorrected.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Regardless of the counts reported, the hope here is that the Elite tuner issues have been fixed (Tivo reporting problems with signal on channel, can't tune channels, etc. when there is no signal level issue). The workaround before was to either reboot or remove/replace the Cablecard.


----------



## tre74

Received update this morning. Big woop. Now it's two thirds finished. Oh, break out the champagne.


----------



## jrtroo

Ok Scrooge. 

This is a big deal. Many important bug fixes, an improvement to season pass speed, overall menu speed increases, and more. Many of the remaining SD screens are ho-hum events that are not used nearly as often as these are. Tivo could have just moved these to HD fonts, but instead made them HD and more useful.


----------



## 241705

Received the update yesterday. I like the updates to the ToDo list and Season Pass Manager. Thanks, TiVo.


----------



## morac

lrhorer said:


> The design of the TiVo should ordinarily prevent such a thing. The loss of power at any stage of an upgrade should not cause the TiVo to fail.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Its also easy to fix a borked bootpage.


I was more worried about corrupting the TiVo databases. This update significantly changed the database format (enough that it was easier to remove Kid Zone rather than update it) which is why there is a "preparing update" stage after the install completes. I don't know what would happen if the power fails while the databases are being re-written (the this may take up to an hour or more screen). If the database gets corrupted weird things can occur, especially now with the hybrid server/local HD UI data (there's been examples of this in the past with corrupted My Show lists in the HD UI). Maybe nothing would happen or if something goes wrong it could be corrected by a green screen, but why take that chance?


----------



## txporter

No word about DLNA support/inclusion? Looks like I saw a comment in this thread from another user saying it isn't there. Has anyone heard from Tivo when the ACCESS support is expected to hit boxes? Thought I heard Q4...but maybe I was dreaming.


----------



## Jonathan_S

Jonathan_S said:


> clark_kent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I please get some more info on how this works:
> 
> "Allow Live TV on Other Devices" is to support TiVo Mini"
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect this setting controls whether a TiVo Mini can permanently grab a tuner for streaming liveTV.
> 
> (Initial TiVo Mini software reportedly can only stream live TV if it's allowed to permanently grab a tuner; leaving the Premiere 4/4XL/Elite with only three for it's own use)
> 
> If you set this new setting to 'no' on the main TiVo then I assume it overrides any configuration from the TiVo Mini. So if you don't grant permission from the main TiVo (by setting this new option to 'yes') no Mini can 'steal' a tuner.
Click to expand...

I got the software update last night and yes, that's what this setting appears to control.

You get the option of (paraphrasing since I don't have the screen in front of me)
* Do not allow any tuners to be used for LiveTV on other devices
* Allow 1 tuner to be used for LiveTV on other devices
* Allow 2 tuners to be used for LiveTV on other devices

(with the first being the default selection)


----------



## cherry ghost

Jonathan_S said:


> I got the software update last night and yes, that's what this setting appears to control.
> 
> You get the option of (paraphrasing since I don't have the screen in front of me)
> * Do not allow any tuners to be used for LiveTV on other devices
> * Allow 1 tuner to be used for LiveTV on other devices
> * Allow 2 tuners to be used for LiveTV on other devices
> 
> (with the first being the default selection)


where is this setting?


----------



## moyekj

cherry ghost said:


> where is this setting?


 Note that it only shows up on 4 tuner units currently (at least that is the case for me since my Elite has it but my 2 tuner Premiere does not).


----------



## MeInDallas

slowbiscuit said:


> Regardless of the counts reported, the hope here is that the Elite tuner issues have been fixed (Tivo reporting problems with signal on channel, can't tune channels, etc. when there is no signal level issue). The workaround before was to either reboot or remove/replace the Cablecard.


Yea this is what I'm wondering. Was there a fix for it this time around. I keep looking for someone to come post and be extremely happy. I'd love to try out another XL4 or Premiere 4.


----------



## drebbe

txporter said:


> No word about DLNA support/inclusion? Looks like I saw a comment in this thread from another user saying it isn't there. Has anyone heard from Tivo when the ACCESS support is expected to hit boxes? Thought I heard Q4...but maybe I was dreaming.


No you weren't dreaming. See last paragraph in http://advanced-television.com/2012/09/10/access-netfront-living-connect-for-tivo/.

I guess the DLNA support could be provided as an app? The AOL On app is also supposed to be coming. The AOL On app was in beta testing in August and supposed to appear in the coming weeks, but oh well we have a new Minesweeper-like app to keep us happy in the meantime...


----------



## lrhorer

morac said:


> I was more worried about corrupting the TiVo databases.


That won't brick the TiVo.



morac said:


> This update significantly changed the database format (enough that it was easier to remove Kid Zone rather than update it) which is why there is a "preparing update" stage after the install completes.


There has always been a "preparing update" stage.



morac said:


> I don't know what would happen if the power fails while the databases are being re-written (the this may take up to an hour or more screen).


The databases are constantly being re-written. Any time power fails on the TiVo, there is a chance some of the database will be munched. The more static areas of the database, however, are not in great jeopardy.



morac said:


> If the database gets corrupted weird things can occur, especially now with the hybrid server/local HD UI data (there's been examples of this in the past with corrupted My Show lists in the HD UI).


No doubt, but it is no more likely to happen during a software upgrade than on any Sunday afternoon during a thunderstorm. In any case, there is a big difference between having to C&D the TiVo and having it bricked.



morac said:


> Maybe nothing would happen or if something goes wrong it could be corrected by a green screen, but why take that chance?


Because there is no good reason not to take it, but a number of reasonable financial reasons to stick to the schedule.

If you are really concerned about it, do what I do (for completely different reasons) and put all of your TiVos on UPSs. Indeed, everyone should. If power goes out and the TiVo is upgrading, the UPS, if properly sized, should allow the TiVo to complete its upgrade. If the TiVo is not yet upgrading, shut it off.


----------



## lrhorer

jrtroo said:


> Ok Scrooge.
> 
> This is a big deal.


To whom? From what I have read, certainly not to me. Most of the things I have seen concerning the update are of no interest at all to me. The very few that are of any interest at all are only mildly so. I would be far, far more impressed if the important features that were broken / abandoned in the move to the S4 were fixed. Barring that, my Premiere will remain nearly unused, while my S3s get a major workout.



jrtroo said:


> Many important bug fixes


Such as? Emphasis on the key word "important".



jrtroo said:


> an improvement to season pass speed


You mean the Season Pass menu? Who cares? I go to it maybe once every year or two. If it is faster, that's nice, but it doesn't come within miles of "important".



jrtroo said:


> overall menu speed increases


What menus, specifically? I very rarely use any of them. Most of them could be lightning fast or slower than a sloth, and it would make zero difference to my TiVo experience.



jrtroo said:


> and more. Many of the remaining SD screens are ho-hum events that are not used nearly as often as these are.


Please be specific. I use the NPL. Every two weeks or so I go to the Search by Title menu (but not on the Premiere, because they broke it to the point of being completely useless) to see what the TiVo may have missed scheduling. Every once in a great while - perhaps 4 or 5 times a year - I may go to the To Do list to see why a show was not recorded or to resolve a conflict.  When a new movie shows up in theaters I would like to see, I create a wishlist for it - maybe 10 times a year or so.



jrtroo said:


> Tivo could have just moved these to HD fonts, but instead made them HD and more useful.


More useful in what way? If they do not produce more shows of a higher quality to record with less time and effort on my part and more time watching shows, then they are not useful. Somehow inducing me to spend more time in the menus is the opposite of useful.


----------



## news4me2

mrschimpf said:


> Love it so far, though I have noticed a bug; downloaded podcasts and web video no longer are grouped in folders, so now they all show up individually in My Shows no matter what sort type is used. Probably something to be fixed quickly. Also really not a fan of sounds during 'channel up/down' changes.


I don't hear any sounds during channel up/down and Group Folders is working fine for my web downloads after the update.

I will assume you have already tried using the Red 'C' button to turn groups on or off, so I can only suggest forcing a new connection to TiVo for the latest update and then rebooting the box...


----------



## Philmatic

chiguy50 said:


> It may be just a coincidence, but I have noticed a very significant improvement in the Reed-Solomon error count in both my Premiere and Premiere Elite since getting the update yesterday.
> 
> Ever since I had some individual channel signal outages or pixelation issues several months ago, I have been checking the RS corrected/uncorrected values periodically on both my TiVo's. While I have not experienced any noticeable video anomalies in the intervening months, I have seen the RS error counts occasionally reach the 100K's and even the millions. Typically, however, the numbers stayed below the six figures but seldom under 1K. (S/N ratio is a steady 37/38dB and signal strength usually ranges between 92 and 96.) I was concerned enough that I removed my splitters and replaced all my coaxial cables with high-quality new ones in order to eliminate those possible sources of the signal problem.
> 
> Since the update my RS uncorrected counts on all six tuners are typically 0 or 1. I have NEVER seen this before and have to believe that something in the update has positively affected the tuner efficiency.
> 
> Can anyone else shed some light on this or corroborate my findings?


I'm not sure about the count you are talking about, but I did notice that channel switches are noticeably faster now. Has anyone noticed that as well?


----------



## aaronwt

slowbiscuit said:


> Looks like the losing pause/resume place issue with ongoing recordings in HDUI is fixed.
> 
> EDIT: I've also noticed that 30-sec skip is pretty snappy on my Elite now. Looks like they got rid of that slight lag and it's almost instant, both forward and back.


I still never saw it with the old software and haven't seen it with the new one. I was recroding four news programs for many, many hours during the Sandy coverage and was switching between all of them. When I came back to each channel I was always at the location I had paused it previously


----------



## astrohip

One weird thing I've noticed: Any recording in an ARWL group is also listed individually. For example, I have an ARWL called "Movies", that has about 15 movies in it. It's still there, and has a "(15)" next to the WL name. But those 15 movies are also listed individually throughout the Now Playing screens, wherever they fall chronologically. Yes, I have Groups ON. I will try a reboot later and see what that does.



jcthorne said:


> The HDUI will never be as fast as the SDUI on the same box. With the latests updates, for the most part, the HDUI is now as fast or faster than the SDUI on a TivoHD. IE they have made it just as usable as the old SDUI was when abandoned. Expect the SDUI to go away at some point. They have stopped development and are removing any parts of it that interfere with new programming.


The SDUI is about the same speed on my Elite as my S3. For the most part, instantaneous. The HDUI has delays ranging from a second or so (not bad) to 3-5 seconds, depending on the screen. As I've mentioned many times, since I don't have any pressing need for the HDUI, I live with the SDUI. Contrary to your findings, the HDUI on my Elite is still slower than my S3 SDUI.

However, I don't begrudge the HDUI in the least, and totally understand that 100% of their effort will be towards the HDUI. That's life in the electronics biz.

It's just not for me. And get off my yard!


----------



## lrhorer

chiguy50 said:


> It may be just a coincidence, but I have noticed a very significant improvement in the Reed-Solomon error count in both my Premiere and Premiere Elite since getting the update yesterday.
> 
> Ever since I had some individual channel signal outages or pixelation issues several months ago, I have been checking the RS corrected/uncorrected values periodically on both my TiVo's. While I have not experienced any noticeable video anomalies in the intervening months, I have seen the RS error counts occasionally reach the 100K's and even the millions. Typically, however, the numbers stayed below the six figures but seldom under 1K.


Admittedly, those numbers are awfully high. I'm still on 20.2.1, and one of the tuners is at 0/0, the other at 256/58. It's been several hours since a channel change has occurred on either tuner.



chiguy50 said:


> Can anyone else shed some light on this or corroborate my findings?


No, but I certainly cannot refute them, either.


----------



## lrhorer

astrohip said:


> However, I don't begrudge the HDUI in the least,


Neither do I, unless efforts in that direction break something else.

I also feel compelled to speak up when trivial changes are touted as revolutionary.



astrohip said:


> and totally understand that 100% of their effort will be towards the HDUI. That's life in the electronics biz.


There I disagree. A very significant fraction of their efforts should be in features and functionality, rather than the UI, whatever its flavor.



astrohip said:


> It's just not for me. And get off my yard!


Agreed. I don't use either UI very much, at all. I bought my TiVos so I can watch a goodly amount of high quality programming, not play with their interfaces. I'm not dismissing the importance of a great UI, either, but neither the SDUI nor the HDUI qualify.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Gene S said:


> I noticed I no longer have the channel icons in the guide in the upper right corner. (ABC, NBC, etc.) I've recently moved and have been relying on those icons to know what channel is what lol.


I am surprised no one else has mentioned the missing channel logos in the HDUI guides.


----------



## Jonathan_S

astrohip said:


> One weird thing I've noticed: Any recording in an ARWL group is also listed individually. For example, I have an ARWL called "Movies", that has about 15 movies in it. It's still there, and has a "(15)" next to the WL name. But those 15 movies are also listed individually throughout the Now Playing screens, wherever they fall chronologically. Yes, I have Groups ON. I will try a reboot later and see what that does.


I'd actually noticed a slightly different odditly (or at least slightly different aspect of this oddily) with ARWL. (In the standard def menus. I didn't take the time this morning when I found the TiVo had updated to switch over to the HD menus and check if it carried over)

I have an ARWL for "Pilot" to pick up new shows. A couple of shows I haven't gotten around to actually checking out, but I've been recording the additional episodes in case I want to catch up.

Prior to the update the two shows in the "pilot" ARWL folder also showed up as the oldest episode in their respective series folder. After the update they do not; in one case the folder begins with the 2nd episode, the the other there were only two episode so no folder exists.

Odd, but hardly the end of the world 

Unrelated I also saw a couple other minor items. 
1) I had a bunch of transfered shows ungroup; they'd been transfered from my previous TiVo (a TiVo HD) to my current one. 
2) I had The Walking Dead "regroup". For whatever reason, pre-upgrade it was split into two folders; one of last season's episodes transfered over from the previous TiVo and one for this season's eps. It's now a single consolidated folder (like you'd expect)
3) A couple of season passes show up with blank names at the bottom of the todo list (no uncoming episodes). But if I click on then I do see the show the SP is set for.


----------



## crxssi

jrtroo said:


> overall menu speed increases


I have noticed absolutely no difference in HDUI performance. That doesn't mean there isn't any, just that I have not noticed any. And I am usually pretty dern impatient with the HDUI, so I would be the type of person who would notice such things.


----------



## astrohip

astrohip said:


> One weird thing I've noticed: Any recording in an ARWL group is also listed individually. For example, I have an ARWL called "Movies", that has about 15 movies in it. It's still there, and has a "(15)" next to the WL name. But those 15 movies are also listed individually throughout the Now Playing screens, wherever they fall chronologically. Yes, I have Groups ON. I will try a reboot later and see what that does.


Ok, I've played with this quite a bit. Under both HDUI & SDUI. Rebooted more than once. Turned groups off & on, etc.

Some, but not all, of the shows in my various ARWL are also listed individually. One ARWL has three episodes, one also shows by itself. One has 15; 13 list too.

*VERY very disconcerting.* My nice & neat Now Playing List is mangled with dozens of duplicate listings.

To be clear: these are not pushed or pulled in any manner whatsoever. They are simply ARWL shows.

I guess what I'd like to find out... are others seeing this?


----------



## brentil

morac said:


> I was more worried about corrupting the TiVo databases.


When doing an update TiVo actually has 2 system partitions. It keeps one as the current running version and the one it's updating. If it fails it can flip back to the other so if something like a database corruption occurs it can recover. The boot recovery screen codes talk about some of the details of these recovery options, like letting you manually swap boot partitions.


----------



## brentil

crxssi said:


> I have noticed absolutely no difference in HDUI performance. That doesn't mean there isn't any, just that I have not noticed any. And I am usually pretty dern impatient with the HDUI, so I would be the type of person who would notice such things.


I'll probably do my benchmarks next week. I'm very interested to see if the DB changes mentioned fix some of the items I know are being heavily slowed by Db access like Season Pass re-arranging.


----------



## morac

brentil said:


> When doing an update TiVo actually has 2 system partitions. It keeps one as the current running version and the one it's updating. If it fails it can flip back to the other so if something like a database corruption occurs it can recover. The boot recovery screen codes talk about some of the details of these recovery options, like letting you manually swap boot partitions.


That's the installed software. I'm pretty sure there isn't a backup of the databases (recording indexes, meta data, etc). When this gets updating all current guide data needs to be converted to the new format (for example adding a new field to a SQL file). I suppose if the software makes a copy of the data before converting an only deletes the old data if the conversion is successful that would mitigate any problems. I can only hope that's what the TiVo software does.


----------



## crxssi

brentil said:


> I'll probably do my benchmarks next week. I'm very interested to see if the DB changes mentioned fix some of the items I know are being heavily slowed by Db access like Season Pass re-arranging.


Haven't tried SP. In fact, I am guessing like many people, 98% of my interaction is tied up with the My Shows list- viewing, deleting, stopping. The majority of the remaining 2% mostly being in the guide, then there is everything else. Have only one TiVo. Don't use Netflix. Don't use Amazon. Don't play games. Don't use it for photos or music. Don't use Youtube on it. Don't ever watch live TV. Don't use Showcases. Etc. For me, it is a smart DVR AND a front end to PyTiVo.

Any change to the few features I use that constitute the 99% of my usage pattern would be EXTREMELY noticeable to me (and very important).


----------



## mrschimpf

news4me2 said:


> I don't hear any sounds during channel up/down and Group Folders is working fine for my web downloads after the update.
> 
> I will assume you have already tried using the Red 'C' button to turn groups on or off, so I can only suggest forcing a new connection to TiVo for the latest update and then rebooting the box...


Tried everything three times, and I'm still getting the blooping channels and non-grouped web videos. Thank you for the suggestion; I guess I'll be waiting for 20.2.3 to get that all fixed.


----------



## morac

mrschimpf said:


> Tried everything three times, and I'm still getting the blooping channels and non-grouped web videos. Thank you for the suggestion; I guess I'll be waiting for 20.2.3 to get that all fixed.


Sound effects are tied to the audio setting and the channel audio type. If the audio setting is set to Dolby Digital and the channel has 5.1 audio, there won't be any sound effects at all while full screen.


----------



## mrschimpf

morac said:


> Sound effects are tied to the audio setting and the channel audio type. If the audio setting is set to Dolby Digital and the channel has 5.1 audio, there won't be any sound effects at all while full screen.


They're still going even in that setting (I have it set up with PCM since I directly connect it to my older 5.1 HT system via RCA cables). Also my new web downloads (always between 5-45 minutes) have a very inaccurate timeline saying that they're 36 hours long, so there's another bug to add to the list.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Jonathan_S said:


> 1) I had a bunch of transfered shows ungroup; they'd been transfered from my previous TiVo (a TiVo HD) to my current one.


That's odd, I had the entire first season of Grimm transferred from my old HD to the Elite and they stayed in the same group after this update. Must be a reason for it, but the ungrouping is not universal for previously transferred shows. Perhaps it's because I also had the current season recordings in the same group (which were done by the Elite).


----------



## aaronwt

morac said:


> Sound effects are tied to the audio setting and the channel audio type. If the audio setting is set to Dolby Digital and the channel has 5.1 audio, there won't be any sound effects at all while full screen.


Any DD audio. On FiOS every channel has DD audio. The SD channels are in DD 2.0. And some of the HD channels are also in DD 2.0 audio.


----------



## jrtroo

slowbiscuit said:


> That's odd, I had the entire first season of Grimm transferred from my old HD to the Elite and they stayed in the same group after this update. Must be a reason for it, but the ungrouping is not universal for previously transferred shows. Perhaps it's because I also had the current season recordings in the same group (which were done by the Elite).


I bet you are correct- this happens when I record a single episode of something (or transfer a show) and I just happen to have another episode in suggestions. They will all appear in the folder, but once I delete the one I recorded (or transferred), the folder disappears.


----------



## DinoBambino

I'm experiencing lip sync/audio issues on one channel (yes, just one channel) since the update on my Tivo Elite. I'm on Fios and it is the ABC affiliate in Pittsburgh - WTAE. And it only affects the HD version of the station - SD is fine. 

I checked my Tivo HD and the channel is fine on that on that Tivo.

Anyone else experiencing a similar issue? Makes watching Modern Family very annnoying. 

Thanks.

Edit: The local news also has the issue so it an overall problem with the station.


----------



## compnurd

on WTAE for me not having any issues. I have armstrong though not Verizon


----------



## soxthecat

The "Suggestions Folder" is gone. The show are still there when you ungroup, but no group folder at the bottom anymore!!!!


----------



## DinoBambino

compnurd said:


> on WTAE for me not having any issues. I have armstrong though not Verizon


Thanks compnurd. I'll give it a few days and see if it clears up on its own. If not, I'll call Verizon.


----------



## wmcbrine

soxthecat said:


> The "Suggestions Folder" is gone. The show are still there when you ungroup, but no group folder at the bottom anymore!!!!


Still there for me.


----------



## Jonathan_S

slowbiscuit said:


> That's odd, I had the entire first season of Grimm transferred from my old HD to the Elite and they stayed in the same group after this update. Must be a reason for it, but the ungrouping is not universal for previously transferred shows. Perhaps it's because I also had the current season recordings in the same group (which were done by the Elite).


Looking at it last night I noticed 5 sets of shows that had transfered episodes with somewhat differing behaviors (yes, I'm way behind on some shows).

Walking Dead (grouped; in fact it fixed a weird split grouping): some episodes from the old TiVo, some from the new, some from this brand new season.
Firefly (un-grouped) 3 transfered episodes (show wasn't in guide data when upgraded)
Alice (un-grouped) 2 transfered episodes (show wasn't in guide data when upgraded)
Merlin (grouped) all transfered episodes (show in guide data when upgraded)
Torchwood: Miracle Day (un-grouped) all season's transfered episodes (show in guide data when upgraded)

So in one case with current recordings (and a current SP) I got grouping; but in one case (out of 4) without current recordings I got grouping. And in one case (out of 2) with current guide data I got grouping.

<shrug> No clear pattern I can see.


----------



## cherry ghost

Jonathan_S said:


> Looking at it last night I noticed 5 sets of shows that had transfered episodes with somewhat differing behaviors (yes, I'm way behind on some shows).
> 
> Walking Dead (grouped; in fact it fixed a weird split grouping): some episodes from the old TiVo, some from the new, some from this brand new season.
> Firefly (un-grouped) 3 transfered episodes (show wasn't in guide data when upgraded)
> Alice (un-grouped) 2 transfered episodes (show wasn't in guide data when upgraded)
> Merlin (grouped) all transfered episodes (show in guide data when upgraded)
> Torchwood: Miracle Day (un-grouped) all season's transfered episodes (show in guide data when upgraded)
> 
> So in one case with current recordings (and a current SP) I got grouping; but in one case (out of 4) without current recordings I got grouping. And in one case (out of 2) with current guide data I got grouping.
> 
> <shrug> No clear pattern I can see.


could it have anything to do with when they were recorded or transferred. Before vs. after the last software update?


----------



## leiff

after fall update the following bug occurs for me: If I cue a folder to play from my show menu which in sequence plays entire folder contents, if during playback of one of the shows in said folder I Decide to delete entire folder -delete will refuse to proceed. It will show grey x like usual but grey x will stay frozen and refuse to delete. in order to delete folder I have to first stop playing video within that folder by either going to live tv or playing something elsce. This didn't use to be. Does TiVo monitor this thread, since I would like bug fixed.


----------



## CoxInPHX

leiff said:


> after fall update the following bug occurs for me: If I cue a folder to play from my show menu which in sequence plays entire folder contents, if during playback of one of the shows in said folder I Decide to delete entire folder -delete will refuse to proceed. It will show grey x like usual but grey x will stay frozen and refuse to delete. in order to delete folder I have to first stop playing video within that folder by either going to live tv or playing something elsce. This didn't use to be. Does TiVo monitor this thread, since I would like bug fixed.


I noticed this too. I was only playing one Episode in a Group, went back to My Shows and hit clear to Delete the Group, The playback continued and the Group was not deleted. There was no prompt either.


----------



## mattack

lrhorer said:


> Every two weeks or so I go to the Search by Title menu (but not on the Premiere, because they broke it to the point of being completely useless)


Can you explain what broke here? Do you mean HD UI or SD UI? I use SD UI (currently)..

The difference in the way find by title works on Premiere (I have a Premiere 4) got to me at first.. i.e. how it colors the letters you have typed.. But now I actually kind of like it. I think the ONE issue is that it now restricts the list to things that match, so you can't type one letter and then go back and forth through the WHOLE list.

(I definitely care about things like speed of menus and such, which you don't care about.)


----------



## mattack

astrohip said:


> Ok, I've played with this quite a bit. Under both HDUI & SDUI. Rebooted more than once. Turned groups off & on, etc.
> 
> Some, but not all, of the shows in my various ARWL are also listed individually. One ARWL has three episodes, one also shows by itself. One has 15; 13 list too.


Why don't you email margret?


----------



## Lars_J

The update is working great for me so far, but strangely (or not) the only place where I am seeing significant issues is the *Netflix* player.

Two major issues:
1. When pausing a video stream, the timeline indicator is stuck at 0:00 - even though unpausing will resume at the right spot.
2. When picking a title in the home screen, all options on the first menu are blacked out. Some, like the "play now" button is highlighted and shows text - but all the other options (like add to instant queue) do not show any text - so there is no indication what that option will do.


----------



## cherry ghost

in the HDUI, when you go to the To Do List and change a Season Pass recording to a later airing, the new recording no longer defaults to the SP settings, e.g. start one minute early, stop one minute late


----------



## cherry ghost

slowbiscuit said:


> Looks like the losing pause/resume place issue with ongoing recordings in HDUI is fixed.


Unfortunately, it happened to me tonight.


----------



## lrhorer

mattack said:


> Can you explain what broke here? Do you mean HD UI or SD UI? I use SD UI (currently)..


Both. The so-called Search by Title utility was one of the 3 most powerful features of the TiVo. It was not really a title search, and I virtually never use it as such. It was a context driven index with user-specified filters applied. With exceedingly rare exceptions, the way I almost universally use this is Search => Title => HD => Movies => No sub-category => 0. This brings up the list of all movies scheduled within the next two weeks starting at the very top. I never used it as such, but of course one could substitute Sports, Soap Operas, etc, for Movies, and leave off the HD filter, if one prefers.



mattack said:


> The difference in the way find by title works on Premiere (I have a Premiere 4) got to me at first.. i.e. how it colors the letters you have typed.. But now I actually kind of like it. I think the ONE issue is that it now restricts the list to things that match, so you can't type one letter and then go back and forth through the WHOLE list.


It's not filtered, either, the lack of either of which reduces the usefulness by far more than half, each. The lack of both makes it almost totally useless. One can half-way emulate the filter function using a wishlist, but then one cannot jump to specific parts of the list, limiting that functionality, as well.

It boggles my mind that any engineer would expect the user should be required to know for what they are searching. It's catch-22. With the Premier, one must go find for what one is looking so one can go looking for it. With literally hundreds of thousands of shows out there, why should one be expected to know what is going to be on so one can go searching for it? Seeking something that may not be in the guide is the proper purvey for the Wishlist utility, not a guide search.

[/quote](I definitely care about things like speed of menus and such, which you don't care about.)[/QUOTE]
Almost not at all. An ideal DVR would be one which has no controls, menus, or user inputs whatsoever. It would record everything in which the user might be interested and nothing in which the user is not interested without the user ever having to set up anything or to provide any direction at all. The only controls would be , <Jump %>, <Play>, <FF>, and <RW>.
Of course, this is not a practical possibility, but it is the ideal. The TiVo can come remarkably close, though. I haven't gone into any menu other than the NPL, the Title search (S3, not Premiere), and diagnostics in at least two months.

I feel it necessary to add you (and others) are not "wrong" and I am not "right" for wanting or not wanting a DVR with highly focused recording features, but the reverse is not true, either. What is "important" is a matter of personal desire. The blanket statement, "This is important" does not take a wide view of the situation.


----------



## lrhorer

brentil said:


> When doing an update TiVo actually has 2 system partitions.


Actually, it has 8. Two are not used in current TiVos. Two contain the kernels. Two contain the root partitions. One contains /var. One is swap space. The kernel partitions are not formatted, and are never written except during an upgrade, when only the inactive kernel partition is written. The root partitions are formatted with the ext2 file system, and are mounted as read-only. Again, only the inactive root partition is written.



brentil said:


> It keeps one as the current running version and the one it's updating. If it fails it can flip back to the other so if something like a database corruption occurs it can recover. The boot recovery screen codes talk about some of the details of these recovery options, like letting you manually swap boot partitions.


Database corruption is another matter. No database is kept in the OS partitions.


----------



## lrhorer

morac said:


> That's the installed software. I'm pretty sure there isn't a backup of the databases (recording indexes, meta data, etc).


It might be mirrored, or parts of it might. There is plenty of room, but nonetheless, I doubt it, at least for most of the databases.



morac said:


> When this gets updating all current guide data needs to be converted to the new format (for example adding a new field to a SQL file). I suppose if the software makes a copy of the data before converting an only deletes the old data if the conversion is successful that would mitigate any problems. I can only hope that's what the TiVo software does.


There are more effective means than that. My guess would be the writes are journalled and any conversions probably have journalled pointers. After a dirty reboot, I would expect the journals are written, just like with other journalled file systems like ext3, XFS, etc. Restore the pointer to the last correctly converted database record, and start converting again, from there.

I've looked at a few of the MFS structures, and they are pretty straightforward. I don't know exactly how they are formatted on the disk, but taking care to preserve those structures which cannot be easily rebuilt is a well understood task for file system developers.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Lars_J said:


> The update is working great for me so far, but strangely (or not) the only place where I am seeing significant issues is the *Netflix* player.
> 
> Two major issues:
> 1. When pausing a video stream, the timeline indicator is stuck at 0:00 - even though unpausing will resume at the right spot.
> 2. When picking a title in the home screen, all options on the first menu are blacked out. Some, like the "play now" button is highlighted and shows text - but all the other options (like add to instant queue) do not show any text - so there is no indication what that option will do.


I am not seeing either of these issues.


----------



## morac

lrhorer said:


> Both. The so-called Search by Title utility was one of the 3 most powerful features of the TiVo. It was not really a title search, and I virtually never use it as such. It was a context driven index with user-specified filters applied. With exceedingly rare exceptions, the way I almost universally use this is Search => Title => HD => Movies => No sub-category => 0. This brings up the list of all movies scheduled within the next two weeks starting at the very top. I never used it as such, but of course one could substitute Sports, Soap Operas, etc, for Movies, and leave off the HD filter, if one prefers.


That was kind of replaced by the Browse TV & Movies section. The way of searching for movie changed, but it can still be done.


----------



## wmcbrine

There's a new bug in an old game: In Wordsmith, only the top line of letters is shown, except for brief flashes when transitioning to other screens. This pretty much ruins the game. Wordsmith still works correctly on my S3, and on the Premiere that hasn't upgraded. Fully repeatable. It looks like another transparency-related bug in the HME engine. (Fortunately my Reversi is still working correctly, unlike with previous Premiere HME transparency bugs.)


----------



## astrohip

mattack said:


> Why don't you email margret?


How do I do that? I hate to bug her, as I appreciate her participating in this forum, and if she starts getting bombarded with nitpicks, I'm afraid she'll tune out. OTOH, ungrouping of ARWL recordings is a significant bug.



cherry ghost said:


> in the HDUI, when you go to the To Do List and change a Season Pass recording to a later airing, the new recording no longer defaults to the SP settings, e.g. start one minute early, stop one minute late


Yikes. I do this ALL the time, and since I have an Elite, many of my SPs are padded. I'll check this tonight and see if I can reproduce it. Thanks for the report.


----------



## Jonathan_S

cherry ghost said:


> could it have anything to do with when they were recorded or transferred. Before vs. after the last software update?


Hmm. All transfered episodes were transfered before this week's software update.

I can't swear there wasn't an update between some of the transfers, but I tend to doubt it becuase they were all part of transitioning to a new TiVo. So after setting it up (and grabbing the latest SW) I started transferring everything left on the TiVo HD; so they were all moved within a couple of days of each other.

In fact the only group that had anything recorded by the Elite in it was The Walking Dead; so that doesn't seem to explain the differences in outcome between all the others.


----------



## Test

moyekj said:


> For those with more than 1 series 4 unit this is truly a great update. Some examples of things you can now do while browsing a remote Series 4 unit:
> * Play shortcut now works (no need select show and choose play from menu)
> * Recently Deleted folder of remote unit is visible and you can recover shows from it
> * You can now schedule season passes on the remote unit and you can also change existing season pass options or remove season passes
> 
> No doubt a lot of this more co-operative unit functionality is in preparation for the Mini.
> 
> (Even though the Mini is not released it would be interesting if a Premiere could hijack a tuner from an Elite/XL4 since it looks like there is a menu option on Elite/XL4 to give up a tuner for another device).


How do you get this working? All my s4 TiVos have the updates, but still have the old screens when trying MRV


----------



## lpwcomp

Test said:


> How do you get this working? All my s4 TiVos have the updates, but still have the old screens when trying MRV


And you're using the HDUI?


----------



## Test

lpwcomp said:


> And you're using the HDUI?


Yep.

I guess I'll reboot them all?


----------



## lpwcomp

wmcbrine said:


> There's a new bug in an old game: In Wordsmith, only the top line of letters is shown, except for brief flashes when transitioning to other screens. This pretty much ruins the game. Wordsmith still works correctly on my S3, and on the Premiere that hasn't upgraded. Fully repeatable. It looks like another transparency-related bug in the HME engine. (Fortunately my Reversi is still working correctly, unlike with previous Premiere HME transparency bugs.)


There's somthing very odd at work here. I'd never actually played Wordsmith before but I decided to try to see if I could verify the problem. And initially, I couldn't. It worked fine. Then I exited and came back in and voila!, it was broken. Rebooted the TiVo and it worked the first time but was broken on subsequent attempts.

Started up a game of Kaboom, exited, started Wordsmith again and it is working properly and I cannot get it to break.


----------



## lpwcomp

Test said:


> Yep.
> 
> I guess I'll reboot them all?


Couldn't hurt.


----------



## Test

No good. I see one other person as the same problem on the TiVo twitter account


----------



## astrohip

cherry ghost said:


> in the HDUI, when you go to the To Do List and change a Season Pass recording to a later airing, the new recording no longer defaults to the SP settings, e.g. start one minute early, stop one minute late


Did not do it for me. However, I am using the SDUI.


----------



## cherry ghost

astrohip said:


> Did not do it for me. However, I am using the SDUI.


It worked for me before the update because the old To Do was still SD.


----------



## bigguy126

DinoBambino said:


> I'm experiencing lip sync/audio issues on one channel (yes, just one channel) since the update on my Tivo Elite. I'm on Fios and it is the ABC affiliate in Pittsburgh - WTAE. And it only affects the HD version of the station - SD is fine.
> 
> I checked my Tivo HD and the channel is fine on that on that Tivo.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing a similar issue? Makes watching Modern Family very annnoying.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Edit: The local news also has the issue so it an overall problem with the station.


From Pgh too. Am having exact same problem. Sent you a pm. Seems to be tivo software.


----------



## mattack

lrhorer said:


> It boggles my mind that any engineer would expect the user should be required to know for what they are searching. It's catch-22. With the Premier, one must go find for what one is looking so one can go looking for it. With literally hundreds of thousands of shows out there, why should one be expected to know what is going to be on so one can go searching for it? Seeking something that may not be in the guide is the proper purvey for the Wishlist utility, not a guide search.


I think you're then looking to "browse" rather than "search".

Since it is called "search by title", it seems pretty clear to me that that's exactly what it's going to do.

Again, the changes got to me at first, and ARE limiting since it DOES narrow down your search (you said it didn't).. so that's another way it's now a search and not a 'browse' utility which is how you used to use it.

I'm not saying you're wrong.. I just think that now, it more closely fits its name.


----------



## lpwcomp

I think the basic problem with any of the HDUi search options is that they are a net search and do not fall back to a local search if the net is unavailable.


----------



## crxssi

I think I found another new change... the channel lineup message/notification looks VERY different now. It is split into two panes and much more readable. Big improvement, especially when there are lots of channels changed.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

I notice this morning that, as expected/hoped, now that the time change has happened the To Do List off-by-one-hour-after-the-time-change error has corrected itself.


----------



## moyekj

HDUI schedule single day manual recording is broken in 20.2.2. 1st click in the "Day" field does not advance the day of the week, but subsequent clicks do. As a result if you want to try and schedule a manual recording beyond the current day it schedules recording 24 hours later than expected. Of course you can workaround the issue once you know about it, but still a pretty ugly bug to get released the way it is.
(SDUI manual recording still works fine).


----------



## mmf01

bigguy126 said:


> From Pgh too. Am having exact same problem. Sent you a pm. Seems to be tivo software.


I'm noticing the same audio sync issue on BBC America.


----------



## MichaelK

crxssi said:


> I think I found another new change... the channel lineup message/notification looks VERY different now. It is split into two panes and much more readable. Big improvement, especially when there are lots of channels changed.


I'm not 100% certain but think that's been that way for a while now. My comcast seems to change lineup every other week and I've seen that message a bit.

agreed it is much better!


----------



## MichaelK

is it me or are the "conflicts" messages sort of worthless?

It seems to me that at least some (if not all) instances of these messages are 'not intelligent' in that they just complain if there is an initial conflict but dont at all account if the episode is picked up later. 

I couldn't care less if the initial is missed but it's picked up later. I just want to know if an episode will be missed entirely and i have to do something to get it.


----------



## moyekj

MichaelK said:


> is it me or are the "conflicts" messages sort of worthless?
> 
> It seems to me that at least some (if not all) instances of these messages are 'not intelligent' in that they just complain if there is an initial conflict but dont at all account if the episode is picked up later.
> 
> I couldn't care less if the initial is missed but it's picked up later. I just want to know if an episode will be missed entirely and i have to do something to get it.


 Funny. I'm having opposite problem of conflicts NOT being listed for ARWL recordings when they should be (see my post further up).


----------



## MichaelK

moyekj said:


> Funny. I'm having opposite problem of conflicts NOT being listed for ARWL recordings when they should be (see my post further up).


I'm even having the worthless messages for ARWL- i grabbed the tivo 'guru guide' or whatever they call them now a days- for James Bond movies. It complains that some wont record but then when i dig into the specific movies it's getting a later airing.

I haven't checked lately- but that was what i found the first day and the second day i had the update. Maybe the database has to finish indexing or something and it will be better. Fingers crossed....


----------



## lrhorer

morac said:


> That was kind of replaced by the Browse TV & Movies section. The way of searching for movie changed, but it can still be done.


Oh, you have got to be kidding me. First of all, I will admit the interface is superior to the old list in one respect: 12 entries on-screen are superior to 8 or now 9 in the SDUI. That is where any semblence of acceptability, let alone superiority, ends. All the useless crap at the top of the screen is just that: useless crap. If there were no way to get rid of the uber-annoying PinP nonsense in the upper right hand corner, I would chunk the box in the dumpster. (Well, OK, I don't own it, so I can't do that, but it sure as heck would not get used.) Fortunately, one can turn it off, but then there is still a bunch of useless crap at the top of the screen. Another 4 or even 8 titles on-screen would be far better. Much more to the point, here, however, is the Browse TV & Movies section has enforced, non-exclusive filters in place. It would take an eternity to slog through all 49 categories, and many films will be duplicated in 3, 4 or even more of the categories. Keeping track of what one has or has not done requires keeping a pen and pad handy. Worst of all, the lists include friggin online content. That's utterly worthless. I'm not there (in the browser) to watch a movie, and I certainly don't want to pay for one or even download it free from somewhere. I want to see what the TiVo may have missed selecting to record for me. As it is, with all the upcoming movies, that takes an awfully long time, even if it is every two weeks.

Utterly, utterly worthless.


----------



## morac

lrhorer said:


> Oh, you have got to be kidding me. First of all, I will admit the interface is superior to the old list in one respect: 12 entries on-screen are superior to 8 or now 9 in the SDUI. That is where any semblence of acceptability, let alone superiority, ends. All the useless crap at the top of the screen is just that: useless crap. If there were no way to get rid of the uber-annoying PinP nonsense in the upper right hand corner, I would chunk the box in the dumpster. (Well, OK, I don't own it, so I can't do that, but it sure as heck would not get used.) Fortunately, one can turn it off, but then there is still a bunch of useless crap at the top of the screen. Another 4 or even 8 titles on-screen would be far better. Much more to the point, here, however, is the Browse TV & Movies section has enforced, non-exclusive filters in place. It would take an eternity to slog through all 49 categories, and many films will be duplicated in 3, 4 or even more of the categories. Keeping track of what one has or has not done requires keeping a pen and pad handy. Worst of all, the lists include friggin online content. That's utterly worthless. I'm not there (in the browser) to watch a movie, and I certainly don't want to pay for one or even download it free from somewhere. I want to see what the TiVo may have missed selecting to record for me. As it is, with all the upcoming movies, that takes an awfully long time, even if it is every two weeks.
> 
> Utterly, utterly worthless.


Well then simply create a movies wish list.

BTW you can filter out downloads in the Browse ... section.


----------



## lrhorer

crxssi said:


> I think I found another new change... the channel lineup message/notification looks VERY different now. It is split into two panes and much more readable. Big improvement, especially when there are lots of channels changed.


That's been a poor spot for the TiVo for ages. First of all, does the new notification tell the user WHAT the new channel is? Sometimes the content is obvious, but often it is completely unclear. It doesn't help to give the user the option to include or exclude the channel when he has no Earthly idea what it is. More importantly, can the user jump directly to the channel to see what it is all about and then jump right back to the selection? Having to remember the channel number so one can jump to "Live TV" and change the channel, perhaps bringing up the guide (the only time I ever do), jumping back to the channel selection and again having to remember the channel number is a pain.


----------



## crxssi

lrhorer said:


> That's been a poor spot for the TiVo for ages. First of all, does the new notification tell the user WHAT the new channel is? Sometimes the content is obvious, but often it is completely unclear. It doesn't help to give the user the option to include or exclude the channel when he has no Earthly idea what it is. More importantly, can the user jump directly to the channel to see what it is all about and then jump right back to the selection? Having to remember the channel number so one can jump to "Live TV" and change the channel, perhaps bringing up the guide (the only time I ever do), jumping back to the channel selection and again having to remember the channel number is a pain.


The answer to your questions are "no" and "no".


----------



## lrhorer

morac said:


> Well then simply create a movies wish list.


I already pointed out that does not result in an indexed list. It's not even alphabetized. Worst of all, there are tons of duplications. Wishlists are terrific, but that one is all but useless for the purpose of browsing upcoming movies. So is the Browse Movies utility in the HDUI.



morac said:


> BTW you can filter out downloads in the Browse ... section.


I looked for something like that before I ever posted in the first place, but did not see it. Is that a feature of the new UI? It would help quite a bit, but not nearly enough. There would still be 49 non-unique collections to browse.

I really find it hard to believe how badly TiVo screwed the pooch on this one. The Search by Title utility was exceedingly powerful and extremely flexible. There just was absolutely no reason to eliminate it. Change its name to Index Search or some such and add the new Search by Title? OK. Make it HD and increase the number of titles on the screen, excellent. Get rid of it? It ripped about 1/3 of the guts out of the TiVo, or more.


----------



## lrhorer

crxssi said:


> The answer to your questions are "no" and "no".


<Sigh> Oh, well. It's not all that important a feature, but it really would not be difficult to implement. I really don't understand why it has not been implemented long ago. A simple "Jump to Channel" button could be placed in the channel list (with a warning if all tuners are busy recording), and the TiVo could easily keep track of which window the user was in when he left the channel lineup utility. Getting channel descriptions would require some coordination with Tribune Media, but asking each channel to supply a short synopsis of what they do is not an unreasonable request, nor would it require even a tiny fraction of the effort on Tribune's part that they undertake each and every day.


----------



## bigguy126

DinoBambino said:


> I'm experiencing lip sync/audio issues on one channel (yes, just one channel) since the update on my Tivo Elite. I'm on Fios and it is the ABC affiliate in Pittsburgh - WTAE. And it only affects the HD version of the station - SD is fine.
> 
> I checked my Tivo HD and the channel is fine on that on that Tivo.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing a similar issue? Makes watching Modern Family very annnoying.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Edit: The local news also has the issue so it an overall problem with the station.





mmf01 said:


> I'm noticing the same audio sync issue on BBC America.


In my case, WTAE is coming in with the alternate audio of spanish. Although the spoken words are english, it causes a lag. My tivohd is showing a selection for english dolby and spanish dolby. The elite is only showing a selection for spanish stereo for same channel. Started since downloading the fall update. Press info and scroll down to see what audio tracks are available. I've contacted tivo support and the escalation team is supposed to contact me.


----------



## ilkevinli

My memory is slipping so excuse this question 

Before this update were there channel icons in the grid guide ? If not, I'm curious why they don't include it. Thanks


----------



## morac

ilkevinli said:


> My memory is slipping so excuse this question
> 
> Before this update were there channel icons in the grid guide ? If not, I'm curious why they don't include it. Thanks


Yes there were. There was a channel icon displayed up next to video window for the currently selected channel. There wasn't any displayed down the left side where the channel numbers are.


----------



## Jonathan_S

morac said:


> Well then simply create a movies wish list.


FWIW the Premieres made that less useful as well. 

On my old TiVoHD a wishlist would only show a movie title twice if there was differing guide data between the two showing (pretty rare and you could figure out why it was duplicated easily).

On the Premiere you can get the same movie listed 5-10 times within a single wishlist result. (an example from mine: HD, Movies, 2010, <minus a long list of titles of movies I don't want to see>). All those dupes makes it more annoying to look through the results.

(Overall I still prefer my Elite to my TiVO HD, but there are certainly changes between them that I'd prefer to undo)


----------



## rjonas1

it would be nice as well if we could choose the channel(s) we want in the wishlist... I have HBO and Showtime and would like the season pass only to look at those channels but Lifetime has movies, SciFi has movies, etc....


----------



## TerpBE

There's another thread on this, but manual recordings now think shows have already ended unless they're 2+ hours in the future. It won't let you manually record something now - or in an hour from now.

I think this started Sunday, which leads me to believe that a TiVo programmer thought it was "fall forward, spring back".


----------



## lujan

TiVoMargret said:


> This morning we began rolling out the 20.2.2 update for TiVo Premiere (including XL, 4, XL4, and Elite). Many boxes will be authorized for the update today, with more added each day from the priority list. (http://tivo.com/priority)...


Well, when I signed up at this site that TiVoMargret suggested, it told me my TiVo would be updated within 3 days and after 3 days, it still has not been updated. What's going on?


----------



## lessd

lujan said:


> Well, when I signed up at this site that TiVoMargret suggested, it told me my TiVo would be updated within 3 days and after 3 days, it still has not been updated. What's going on?


I though the list was closed about 2 days or so before the update first came out, you can sign up but it will do you no good now. I don't know this for sure but nobody on this form (except maybe a TiVo person) will have a real answer.


----------



## Test

I don't get it. I still don't have HD screens on MRV/MRS S4 shares. 

Time to contact technical support.


----------



## compnurd

Test said:


> I don't get it. I still don't have HD screens on MRV/MRS S4 shares.
> 
> Time to contact technical support.


have all units updated


----------



## Test

compnurd said:


> have all units updated


Yep, no help from support. Went down the usual troubleshooting list and they haven't encountered this issue before.

Maybe I'm expecting something that is wrong?

3 S4s, when I go to a shared S4 "my shows" it should now look like "my shows" on the tivo I'm on...with the video screen still playing video and everything...right?

Can someone post a picture of that?


----------



## morac

Test said:


> Yep, no help from support. Went down the usual troubleshooting list and they haven't encountered this issue before.
> 
> Maybe I'm expecting something that is wrong?
> 
> 3 S4s, when I go to a shared S4 "my shows" it should now look like "my shows" on the tivo I'm on...with the video screen still playing video and everything...right?
> 
> Can someone post a picture of that?


See http://blog.tivo.com/2012/10/fall-update-for-tivo-premiere-dvrs/

Have you tried restarting?


----------



## Test

morac said:


> See http://blog.tivo.com/2012/10/fall-update-for-tivo-premiere-dvrs/
> 
> Have you tried restarting?


Thanks...I thought this is what it should look like.










I've rebooted a bunch of times and it still looks like the old SD screen

Software Version: 20.2.2-01-2-746
I have the new local HD screens (to do, season pass)
I have the new games
I have grouping on, sorted by date
I have a pyTiVoX share (turned it off and tried)
I have an SD TiVo (turned it off and tried)


----------



## morac

Test said:


> Thanks...I thought this is what it should look like.
> 
> I've rebooted a bunch of times and it still looks like the old SD screen


Is the host box also a Premiere? If the host is a Series 3 or not running the last update, it will display the old SD screen.

If it's a Premiere and running the new update, you'll need to contact TiVo.


----------



## Test

morac said:


> Is the host box also a Premiere? If the host is a Series 3 or not running the last update, it will display the old SD screen.
> 
> If it's a Premiere and running the new update, you'll need to contact TiVo.


1 Elite and 2 original Premieres. Already talked to someone there, not much help. I sent an email to margaret @ tivo.com on the 2nd, haven't heard back yet.


----------



## Aero 1

Test said:


> 1 Elite and 2 original Premieres. Already talked to someone there, not much help. I sent an email to margaret @ tivo.com on the 2nd, haven't heard back yet.


i have the same issue. my remote premiere browsing is still in HD. please post as to what she says.


----------



## Test

Ugh, figured I would try something different. They have a "chat with an agent" feature from their site. I try it and get nothing...



> Status: Connected
> Janee: Thank you for contacting TiVo! My name is Janee. So that I may better assist you, are you an existing customer?
> me: yes
> Janee: Great! I would like to go ahead and pull up your account so I can better answer your questions and record our conversation for you. Could you please provide me your primary phone number and the home address on your TiVo account?
> me: number
> me: address
> Janee: Thank you. How can I help you today?
> me: I have 3 premieres and got the fall update last week
> me: When I go to use MRS from one tivo to another I'm not seeing an HD screen on the other tivo
> me: on any of them
> me: I've done multiple connections and reboots, but still nothing
> me: is there another setting I need to enable?
> Janee: I'm not sure what the issue is, I apologize. What do you mean by "I'm not seeing an HD screen on the other tivo"
> me: you know when you have more than one tivo
> Janee: Yes.
> me: you can connect to another tivo to transfer a show
> Janee: Yes.
> Janee: Do you mean the TiVo boxes do not see each other?
> me: in this new update that screen is supposed to be HD, have the recently deleted folder and the picture window
> me: I'm only seeing the old SD screen
> me: http://blog.tivo.com/2012/10/fall-update-for-tivo-premiere-dvrs/
> me: If you scroll down to "my shows for multi-room streaming" you'll see the screenshot
> Janee: Hello?
> me: hi
> me: ?
> me: It says we're still connected
> me: Janee
> me: I'll wait until you get back
> me: So you don't know what I'm talking about and are waiting for me to disconnect?
> me: you can just say that
> me: you seem busy Janee, I'll leave you alone
> me: I saw you responding
> Janee: It seems as if you are busy. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to start a new chat conversation with us. If you would like to speak to someone on our Support Team, please call 1-877-367-8486.
> 
> Hours of operation
> Monday - Friday, 7AM Pacific Time to 7 PM Pacific Time
> Saturday - Sunday, 8AM Pacific Time to 6 PM Pacific Time
> 
> Thank you for using TiVo Chat today and have a great day!
> Janee has disconnected.


Above the chat it shows her name and if she is "Listening" or "Responding"...just saw her responding, but guess she didn't hit send.


----------



## lpwcomp

Test said:


> I don't get it. I still don't have HD screens on MRV/MRS S4 shares.
> 
> Time to contact technical support.


Have you tried switching momentarily to SD menus and switching back?


----------



## Aero 1

lpwcomp said:


> Have you tried switching momentarily to SD menus and switching back?


yes, that doesn't work either.


----------



## lpwcomp

Aero 1 said:


> yes, that doesn't work either.


When you are in the local Premiere's NPL and highlight the entry for the remote Premiere, what do you see on the right side of the screen?


----------



## Aero 1

lpwcomp said:


> When you are in the local Premiere's NPL and highlight the entry for the remote Premiere, what do you see on the right side of the screen?


i see a picture a cartoon picture of a tivo premiere, underneath that it shows the name of the premiere (bedroom) and underneath that it says "Tivo Premiere" and underneath that it shows the remote premiere's service number (TSN).


----------



## moyekj

Aero 1 said:


> i see a picture a cartoon picture of a tivo premiere, underneath that it shows the name of the premiere (bedroom) and underneath that it says "Tivo Premiere" and underneath that it shows the remote premiere's service number (TSN).


 Out of curiosity, do you have "Allow network remote" (don't remember the exact name) enabled in your settings for series 4 units on both sides? That's the setting that allows control of your TiVo by telnet or by iOS/Android applications. I have that setting enabled on both my Elite & Premiere. I don't know if that is a requirement to get the HDUI MRS but I think TiVo may be using RPC functionality so could be enabling network remote is required.


----------



## Aero 1

moyekj said:


> Out of curiosity, do you have "Allow network remote" (don't remember the exact name) enabled in your settings for series 4 units on both sides? That's the setting that allows control of your TiVo by telnet or by iOS/Android applications. I have that setting enabled on both my Elite & Premiere. I don't know if that is a requirement to get the HDUI MRS but I think TiVo may be using RPC functionality so could be enabling network remote is required.


yes, thats always been enabled.


----------



## Test

[email protected] got back to me, asked me a couple questions about my set up and told me its a pretty rare issue...suggested I reboot one at a time and retest. It didn't work. 

Aero 1 what kind of modem/router are you using? ISP? I'm using Verizon fios with an actiontec router with a mix of wifi/wired/moca. 

Settings/help/multiple tivo boxes/streaming between tivo boxes/multi-room advanced setup

Do your TiVos show up there? What's listed on the right? Connection status? Can anyone with this working post theirs?


----------



## moyekj

Test said:


> Do your TiVos show up there? What's listed on the right? Connection status? Can anyone with this working post theirs?


 Running this on my Premiere I see my other 2 TiVos (whose names explain what model they are):
Elite:
Streams: Sends & receives
Transfers: Sends & receives

S3:
Streams: No
Transfers: Sends & receives


----------



## mrizzo80

Test said:


> [email protected] got back to me, asked me a couple questions about my set up and told me its a pretty rare issue...suggested I reboot one at a time and retest. It didn't work.
> 
> Aero 1 what kind of modem/router are you using? ISP? I'm using Verizon fios with an actiontec router with a mix of wifi/wired/moca.
> 
> Settings/help/multiple tivo boxes/streaming between tivo boxes/multi-room advanced setup
> 
> Do your TiVos show up there? What's listed on the right? Connection status? Can anyone with this working post theirs?


If you go into System Information, there should be 2 build numbers at the very end of that list. Maybe somehow the software that get pushed to your boxes was a build that doesn't contain HD Remote Browsing?

Everything is working OK for me. I have:
FPV: 20-2-2-2mr/2012.10.02-1005
HDMSV: b-iris-2-2-mr/2012.10.10-0900


----------



## Test

moyekj said:


> Running this on my Premiere I see my other 2 TiVos (whose names explain what model they are):
> Elite:
> Streams: Sends & receives
> Transfers: Sends & receives
> 
> S3:
> Streams: No
> Transfers: Sends & receives


That's what I have too...

How about "Connection status:"? Mine says "Host info unavailable" and has the other boxes ip.



mrizzo80 said:


> If you go into System Information, there should be 2 build numbers at the very end of that list. Maybe somehow the software that get pushed to your boxes was a build that doesn't contain HD Remote Browsing?
> 
> Everything is working OK for me. I have:
> FPV: 20-2-2-2mr/2012.10.02-1005
> HDMSV: b-iris-2-2-mr/2012.10.10-0900


Same...
20-2-2-mr/2012.10.02-1005
b-iris-2-2-mr/2012.10.10-0900


----------



## moyekj

Test said:


> That's what I have too...
> How about "Connection status:"? Mine says "Host info unavailable" and has the other boxes ip.


Elite:
Connection status:
Connected (MoCA)
192.168.10.185

S3:
Connection status:
Host info unavailable
192.168.10.194


----------



## lpwcomp

Test said:


> How about "Connection status:"? Mine says "Host info unavailable" and has the other boxes ip.


I have two Premieres a THD and a TiVo 2. When I navigate to this screen on one of the Premieres, for the THD and the TiVo 2 it shows "Host info unavailable". For the other Premiere, it shows "Connected(Ethernet)". All 3 also have the IP address.

Are you using fixed IP or DHCP?


----------



## Test

lpwcomp said:


> I have two Premieres a THD and a TiVo 2. When I navigate to this screen on one of the Premieres, for the THD and the TiVo 2 it shows "Host info unavailable". For the other Premiere, it shows "Connected(Ethernet)". All 3 also have the IP address.
> 
> Are you using fixed IP or DHCP?


DHCP


----------



## lpwcomp

Test said:


> DHCP


Try assigning fixed IP addresses to all of the TiVos, or at least to the two Premieres.


----------



## canadiengineer

Hi all! I'm a new member to the site - just got my first TiVo Premiere 4 yesterday  I was wondering... now that the update has been officially released, is there any way for me to force update my TiVo to get 20.2.2? I'm really hoping to try out the HD menus since I'm setting up a lot of season passes right now, and jumping back and forth between the HD and SD menus in 20.2.1 is really frustrating. Thanks!


----------



## MeInDallas

Go into the settings, and force the connect, and let it connect and it should download the latest update. If it doesnt, then connect a few more times until it does. I just got a new XL4 and it took me 2 days to finally get it downloaded, so dont give up.


----------



## sehale

MeInDallas said:


> Go into the settings, and force the connect, and let it connect and it should download the latest update. If it doesnt, then connect a few more times until it does. I just got a new XL4 and it took me 2 days to finally get it downloaded, so dont give up.


In addition to regularly scheduled daily connections, I will force an update a few times a day. Still no update. Ethernet connection, no errors, the guide is updated.


----------



## vectorcatch

sehale said:


> In addition to regularly scheduled daily connections, I will force an update a few times a day. Still no update. Ethernet connection, no errors, the guide is updated.


The update has only been released for people who signed up for it prior to a particular date. Consider it a large scale beta. It will be rolled out to all premieres at a later/undisclosed date based on feedback.


----------



## canadiengineer

I put my tivo number into the "early request" form yesterday as well... is there a tivo rep or contact that can be reached to see if it's still possible to join this early beta?


----------



## Richard in Marin

I really appreciate having this forum available when a problem or question comes up, but I haven't been here for quite a few months. However my Tivo has been acting very slowly for the last 10+/- days (both HD and SUI). Now I see why, I think. 

I tried to force the update by unplugging for 5 min., but that didn't work. Just now I tried to get it done by going to the 'update site' that was in the original post. It said, "within three days". We'll see.


----------



## jrtroo

canadiengineer said:


> I put my tivo number into the "early request" form yesterday as well... is there a tivo rep or contact that can be reached to see if it's still possible to join this early beta?


This is not a beta, it is a request for early release of the software. By this time, there is a likelihood that they closed the requests, but you can check with tivo Margret to make a request.

If you want to sign up for tivo beta program, you can sign up at the tivo website.


----------



## joseph_liu

How can I get this update?

I've rebooted multiple times, repeated the guides setup, and manually connected. I'm in the Chicago market and have an XL4 box purchased directly from TIVo. 

Multiple support calls to TIVO have been no help at all. 

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Joe


----------



## MeInDallas

Did you sign up on the Tivo Software Priority Request page?

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/software-priority-request/index.html?WT.z_links=priority_vanity


----------



## joseph_liu

I did a few days ago - maybe it'll just take a little longer.


----------



## MeInDallas

I signed up my new XL4 and it took a couple of days to get it as well. Just keep trying to connect every few hours and it might download. I'm not sure about this, but it might not do any good on the weekend. I dont think anyone is there on the weekends.


----------



## Richard in Marin

joseph_liu said:


> How can I get this update?
> 
> I've rebooted multiple times, repeated the guides setup, and manually connected. I'm in the Chicago market and have an XL4 box purchased directly from TIVo.
> 
> Multiple support calls to TIVO have been no help at all.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks!
> Joe


Am I to understand that the vast majority of Tivo owners have not gotten this update? And probably aren't even aware of it?


----------



## CoxInPHX

Richard in Marin said:


> Am I to understand that the vast majority of Tivo owners have not gotten this update? And probably aren't even aware of it?


Due to the lack of general discussion about this update as compared to the last two updates, I think it is fair to assume this update has not rolled out very wide yet. Or folks just aren't as excited about this update.


----------



## jasew

CoxInPHX said:


> Due to the lack of general discussion about this update as compared to the last two updates, I think it is fair to assume this update has not rolled out very wide yet. Or folks just aren't as excited about this update.


It must be fully public - otherwise they wouldn't have announced it:

TiVo Service Updates (October 2012)
http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/service-updates/index.html

Blog: Fall Update for TiVo® Premiere DVRs
http://blog.tivo.com/2012/10/fall-update-for-tivo-premiere-dvrs/


----------



## jrtroo

It is public knowledge, but that does not mean it has been released to the tivo masses.


----------



## L David Matheny

CoxInPHX said:


> Due to the lack of general discussion about this update as compared to the last two updates, I think it is fair to assume this update has not rolled out very wide yet. Or folks just aren't as excited about this update.


I am aware of this update from reading here, but as of yesterday afternoon it hasn't been offered to my Premiere. I assume that TiVo is trying to clean up the problems reported so far before distributing it to the rest of us who didn't sign up for early release.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

L David Matheny said:


> I am aware of this update from reading here, but as of yesterday afternoon it hasn't been offered to my Premiere. I assume that TiVo is trying to clean up the problems reported so far before distributing it to the rest of us who didn't sign up for early release.


I doubt it. We didn't sign up for "early release"; we signed up for the priority list, which meant that we would be in the first batch to get the update when it was released.

My understanding is that once it was released, the priority list stopped doing anything. I don't know about now, but I know that in the past the roll-out took several weeks, so it is not at all unusual that somebody who was not on the priority list before the roll-out started hasn't gotten it yet. At this point, I think all you can do is wait.


----------



## innocentfreak

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I doubt it. We didn't sign up for "early release"; we signed up for the priority list, which meant that we would be in the first batch to get the update when it was released.


Priority is early release and part of the initial soak to see if any major issues pop up that didn't show up for beta testers.

If you miss the priority sign-up window, you have to wait until they flip the switch for everyone to get the update.


----------



## mrizzo80

With next week being Thanksgiving week I would bet the mass-rollout will start this week.


----------



## HeatherA

I signed up for the priority list with my 2 Premieres and got them as soon as the update started rolling out. I then bought a new Premiere 4 and when I brought it home and went through setup it downloaded the new software ASAP. So I'm guessing it's less per TSN and more per account this time around. 

Hopefully everyone will have it soon. It's a very nice update.


----------



## b_scott

FYI I haven't kept current on news - neither of my Premiere boxes (XL and regular) have the update yet. I have not signed up for priority.


----------



## sehale

sehale said:


> In addition to regularly scheduled daily connections, I will force an update a few times a day. Still no update. Ethernet connection, no errors, the guide is updated.


Got the update overnight last night. All good now.


----------



## heberman

I'm glad I found this thread. I couldn't figure out why my new Premier wasn't updating to the latest version. I just signed up for the Priority List. Now I guess I just need to be patient rather than worry about why it isn't updating.


----------



## b_scott

got a "pending restart" after putting in my code a day or two ago. Currently installing.


----------



## dugbug

I give up trying to dl it. Is it officially released? TiVomargaret's post was several weeks ago


----------



## muerte33

I still don't have it either. Still at buggy 20.2.1.2-01-2-758
I went ahead and signed up on the priority list to hopefully force it.


----------



## morac

dugbug said:


> I give up trying to dl it. Is it officially released? TiVomargaret's post was several weeks ago


If not everyone has it, then I think it's safe to say it hasn't been mass released. If I'm recalling correctly, last time with 20.2.1, by the time they mass released the software to everyone, it was the bug fix release 20.2.1.1. Maybe they plan to do the same thing for 20.2.2.


----------



## sehale

muerte33 said:


> I still don't have it either. Still at buggy 20.2.1.2-01-2-758
> I went ahead and signed up on the priority list to hopefully force it.


I was way behind others in this group for getting the update so I signed up on the priority list and I think I got it within 3 days. That was about 2 weeks ago.


----------



## jccfin

I noticed a few people having problems with their transferred shows after updating to this new firmware. I was wondering if there's a fix as I'm having the same issue? Specifically, I downloaded shows from my series 3 before the update to my Premiere and now some of those shows don't seem to want to play. Some also seem to not want to group into a folder even though they have the same name. When I retransfer some of those shows, a few won't have the show names but will instead show what date and time it was recorded as the name. There seems to be some data corruption? At least that's what these errors remind me of in the PC world. I've restarted the Premiere. Anyone else having problems with transferred shows?


----------



## johnccronk

I'm dying to get the 20.2.2 update. I signed up last week on the website to receive the update, done numerous manual connections but still dont have it. I even tried re-entering my service number but I receive a notification that its already in their database.


----------



## jccfin

johnccronk said:


> I'm dying to get the 20.2.2 update. I signed up last week on the website to receive the update, done numerous manual connections but still dont have it. I even tried re-entering my service number but I receive a notification that its already in their database.


Be glad that they haven't pushed it out to you yet. There are still bugs that need to be worked out. Especially if you intend to transfer programs from another Tivo.


----------



## jrtroo

No transferring problems here.

Its probably too late to get on the list- it was meant for the first round of the release. In the recent past once the general rollout started everyone needed to just wait their turn.


----------



## Teeps

jccfin said:


> Be glad that they haven't pushed it out to you yet. There are still bugs that need to be worked out. Especially if you intend to transfer programs from another Tivo.


What is the bug related to transferring programs?
What is the symptom?


----------



## compnurd

Teeps said:


> What is the bug related to transferring programs?
> What is the symptom?


yeh no issues here


----------



## mrizzo80

Anybody ever get audio dropouts (usually lasting 2-3 seconds) during MRS? I think it started before 20.2.2 though.

Usually happens once for every 30 minute program I stream (Elite --> 2 tuner Premiere). Not really a big deal but curious if anyone else gets this.


----------



## johnccronk

I sent Margret an email today. Got a quick response asking to try it again. Low and behold I'm now on 20.2.2!! Really dig it!


----------



## Bulldawg9908

I can probably confirm that this update has not been released to everyone. I just learned about it yesterday, and neither of my Premieres have the update yet. I put in the request for the priority list last night.

I am very disappointed about the removal of the KidZone as my son used that all the time. It may be true that not many people used it, but those who did probably considered it a critical feature. I hope TiVo considered the fact that they're disappointing each and every one of those "very few" people who used it. Parental controls just aren't the same solution, or as good a solution for me. Oh well, it's done now, and I can finally try the HD menus again since KidZone was about the only thing keeping me on SD.


----------



## Bierboy

Bulldawg9908 said:


> ... I can finally try the HD menus again since KidZone was about the only thing keeping me on SD.


Well, that and the general slowdown of your system using HD menus (compared to SD). I'd use SD just to keep my system speedy...


----------



## slowbiscuit

...and lose a lot of nice features added to HD.


----------



## MichaelK

Bulldawg9908 said:


> I can probably confirm that this update has not been released to everyone. I just learned about it yesterday, and neither of my Premieres have the update yet. I put in the request for the priority list last night.
> 
> I am very disappointed about the removal of the KidZone as my son used that all the time. It may be true that not many people used it, but those who did probably considered it a critical feature. I hope TiVo considered the fact that they're disappointing each and every one of those "very few" people who used it. Parental controls just aren't the same solution, or as good a solution for me. Oh well, it's done now, and I can finally try the HD menus again since KidZone was about the only thing keeping me on SD.


I'm a little peeved myself that kidzone (or something like it like profiles or something) was not moved to HD also. But we moved to the HD version after the last upgrade when they put parental controls into the HD side of things. My older kids(now middle schoolers) grew up also with kidzone. My youngest (just starting school) used to use kidzone too- but with the graphics/pictures of the HDUI she's learned to navigate without it.

hopefully you can find it bearable too. I wish you luck.


----------



## hoopsbwc34

Bulldawg9908 said:


> I can probably confirm that this update has not been released to everyone. I just learned about it yesterday, and neither of my Premieres have the update yet. I put in the request for the priority list last night.
> 
> I am very disappointed about the removal of the KidZone as my son used that all the time. It may be true that not many people used it, but those who did probably considered it a critical feature. I hope TiVo considered the fact that they're disappointing each and every one of those "very few" people who used it. Parental controls just aren't the same solution, or as good a solution for me. Oh well, it's done now, and I can finally try the HD menus again since KidZone was about the only thing keeping me on SD.


Count me in this group as well. I was using SDMenus just for Kidzone.

One major concern I have is the parental controls default to unlock for four hours, not just for the current show. So if I unlock a show for my kids at the end it goes back to live TV and no longer filters content. I'd be ok if at a minimum you could choose to unlock for 4 hours through the menu and the default behavior was to unlock the single show.


----------



## bsmith1051

Agreed, Parental Controls is really primitive.


----------



## MichaelK

hoopsbwc34 said:


> Count me in this group as well. I was using SDMenus just for Kidzone.
> 
> One major concern I have is the parental controls default to unlock for four hours, not just for the current show. So if I unlock a show for my kids at the end it goes back to live TV and no longer filters content. I'd be ok if at a minimum you could choose to unlock for 4 hours through the menu and the default behavior was to unlock the single show.


+1

time based is a poor choice. It should be per show or per trip into the menus (that also prompts for code) with perhaps an option for 4 hrs.

At least there should be an easy way to turn the lock back on (personally we haven't found it- so if it is there it's not obvious). Maybe easiest would be that if you return to the main menu or the my shows list it should turn the lock back on?


----------



## morac

MichaelK said:


> At least there should be an easy way to turn the lock back on (personally we haven't found it- so if it is there it's not obvious). Maybe easiest would be that if you return to the main menu or the my shows list it should turn the lock back on?


I believe putting the box in Standby turns the lock back on.

It's kind of a shame about Kidzone since such a big deal was made about it when it was introduced, but it doesn't really surprise me that it didn't get much use.


----------



## MichaelK

morac said:


> I believe putting the box in Standby turns the lock back on.
> 
> It's kind of a shame about Kidzone since such a big deal was made about it when it was introduced, but it doesn't really surprise me that it didn't get much use.


I meant- easy as in not 30 button presses. (LOL I know I'm exaggerating but there's these pretty colored buttons why not use them...)


----------



## morac

MichaelK said:


> I meant- easy as in not 30 button presses. (LOL I know I'm exaggerating but there's these pretty colored buttons why not use them...)


If you have a 3rd party remote, Standby can be activated with one button, though only if you have an old remote/code to program from.

Even without it, it's still only 5 button presses: TiVo, page down, select, page down, select


----------



## MichaelK

morac said:


> If you have a 3rd party remote, Standby can be activated with one button, though only if you have an old remote/code to program from.
> 
> Even without it, it's still only 5 button presses: TiVo, page down, select, page down, select


Yep- I used to have harmony 890's but they got crazy expensive to replace after a time so lately i've been buying the slide remotes to get the RF that i need with my setup.

So no joy in muddville for me.

But those pretty colored buttons are sitting there waiting for a use....


----------



## zeylan

Hey TiVo... Removing "Kidzone" from TiVo devices in the latest update was a really lousy move on your part. Half the reason we bought our TiVos in the first place was because of Kidzone. Your "Parental Controls" functionality is weak and extremely unfriendly. BRING BACK KIDZONE!


----------



## rcraig

I agree. We used Kidzone. It was easy to turn back on - right at the top of your My Shows list - Parental Control requires you to go through several menus to turn it back on. Kidzone showed my son only his shows - Parental Controls shows all programs to everyone. Also, many older programs which we allowed in Kidzone don't have ratings - such as I love Lucy. Parental Controls don't let you say certain programs are OK while Kidzone did.

If TiVo would add these three features to Parental Controls, many would be much happier about Parental Controls. I think it was a mistake to remove something that was easy to use and just worked and replace it with a hard to use "feature" that doesn't work anywhere near as well. This is TiVo - not Microsoft!!! We consider Kidzone a critical feature.



Bulldawg9908 said:


> ...I am very disappointed about the removal of the KidZone as my son used that all the time. It may be true that not many people used it, but those who did probably considered it a critical feature. I hope TiVo considered the fact that they're disappointing each and every one of those "very few" people who used it. Parental controls just aren't the same solution, or as good a solution for me...


----------



## labryadae

I can't hide the Live TV window while I'm in the Guide.
It works from Tivo Central, My SHows, To Do, etc - but not while in the Guide?

Anyone else?


----------



## Bierboy

zeylan said:


> ...Half the reason we bought our TiVos in the first place was because of Kidzone....


Who is *"we"*? You're certainly not speaking for the majority of TiVo users...


----------



## CoxInPHX

Bierboy said:


> Who is *"we"*? You're certainly not speaking for the majority of TiVo users...


Simmer Down Now....We is probably his household.


----------



## CoxInPHX

labryadae said:


> I can't hide the Live TV window while I'm in the Guide.
> It works from Tivo Central, My SHows, To Do, etc - but not while in the Guide?
> 
> Anyone else?


Hiding the LiveTV window in the guide has never been an option. Unless you remove it in settings. Guess it does not work there either.


----------



## moyekj

labryadae said:


> I can't hide the Live TV window while I'm in the Guide.
> It works from Tivo Central, My SHows, To Do, etc - but not while in the Guide?
> 
> Anyone else?


 That's always been the case with the HDUI guide even if you have the PIP window permanently disabled in settings. i.e. There is no way to hide it when using guide.


----------



## Bierboy

CoxInPHX said:


> Simmer Down Now....We is probably his household.


I misunderstood when he/she used plural...


----------



## chewy2314

Bulldawg9908 said:


> I can probably confirm that this update has not been released to everyone. I just learned about it yesterday, and neither of my Premieres have the update yet. I put in the request for the priority list last night.
> 
> I am very disappointed about the removal of the KidZone as my son used that all the time. It may be true that not many people used it, but those who did probably considered it a critical feature. I hope TiVo considered the fact that they're disappointing each and every one of those "very few" people who used it. Parental controls just aren't the same solution, or as good a solution for me. Oh well, it's done now, and I can finally try the HD menus again since KidZone was about the only thing keeping me on SD.


Count me in too. My kids were used to Kidzone and wife is not happy it's not there. We'll just have to make do with Parental Controls. TiVo, please add a shortcut to enable it!

edit: SD menu is still way more responsive.


----------



## chewy2314

rcraig said:


> <snip> Also, many older programs which we allowed in Kidzone don't have ratings - such as I love Lucy. Parental Controls don't let you say certain programs are OK while Kidzone did.


Try locking out all the channels except channels with programs you record for the kids. That way, for example, if you unlock TV-Y, it will be locked for programs recorded from a locked channel.


----------



## ntarvin

Crap! This update came out 2 months ago and I just got the 20.2.2.1 update this morning!!!! (No, I'm not on cable) 

Maybe by next Christmas my Tivo will catch up to the rest of the world.


----------



## lpwcomp

ntarvin said:


> Crap! This update came out 2 months ago and I just got the 20.2.2.1 update this morning!!!! (No, I'm not on cable)
> 
> Maybe by next Christmas my Tivo will catch up to the rest of the world.


20.2.2 has been out for two months. 20.2.2.1 only about 2 weeks.

What has being on cable got to do with it?


----------



## lpwcomp

Couple of thins I've noticed:

1. More of the metadata coming over on a TiVo-Tivo transfer.

2.Transfers sometimes get *Separator* as the Categories. Looks like it is when the programId is not in whatever database the Premiere queries for metadata because there is also no Season or Episode #.


----------



## MHunter1

ntarvin said:


> I just got the 20.2.2.1 update this morning


My two Premiere Elite/XL4s were also just updated from 20.2.1 to 20.2.2 yesterday, and I'm very upset that many usability bugs were not eliminated before TiVo forced the new version upon me.

The most annoying bugs in v20.2.2 are when navigating the My Shows list:

When pressing Clear to delete a show from the list, the second show down is highlighted instead of the next one, requiring Clear-Up to be pressed repeatedly to delete a batch of programs.

When toggling the list between chronological and alphabetical order the code is faulty -- TiVo stays on the same row but displays the alternate sort view; this feature is now useless.

I've encountered other inexplicable performance issues, such as the TiVo occasionally jumping up one program after I return to the current program's summary screen.

Now that TiVo seems to be rolling out 20.2.2 to the masses, these new bugs should have been fixed based on the input of users who got the update in October.

I'm using the SDUI sorted chronologically with groups off. Is this behavior not occurring in the HDUI?


----------



## Arcady

I don't expect TiVo to really care about the SDUI from this point forward. It would be nice if they just shut it off, but that would leave out all the people that hook the box up to an old TV.


----------



## aalbersmead

Bulldawg9908 said:


> I am very disappointed about the removal of the KidZone as my son used that all the time. It may be true that not many people used it, but those who did probably considered it a critical feature. I hope TiVo considered the fact that they're disappointing each and every one of those "very few" people who used it. Parental controls just aren't the same solution, or as good a solution for me.


I second this!! I am really upset that KidZone has been removed. The "parental controls" are all or nothing, can't pick and choose individual shows. And, the kids can now delete any shows, change any recording options, and access On Demand with no restrictions. So I can set restrictions to G rating, but unfiltered Netflix is accessible. WTH??

We've been Tivo users from Tivo's birth, but KidZone was a huge factor in staying with Tivo when we recently upgraded. It was the only system that we found that allowed us to pick and choose content according to our judgement, i.e., some PG is fine, but not all.

So disappointed!!


----------



## Arcady

Stop using TiVo as a babysitter?


----------



## astrohip

Arcady said:


> I don't expect TiVo to really care about the SDUI from this point forward.* It would be nice if they just shut it off, *but that would leave out all the people that hook the box up to an old TV.


Why?

I've been a big advocate of the SDUI, due to the speed and lack of any killer benefits from switching. However, for reasons I won't bore you with, I decided to give the HDUI a true trial. I've been on it 3-4 days, and intend to use it for at least a week or so. That way I can truly judge it on its merits, and not poo-poo it due to the "change & strangeness" factor.

But again, why would it be _nice _if TiVo killed it?



Arcady said:


> that would leave out all the people that hook the box up to an old TV.


Yep, that's me. I have my Elite hooked up to an old Samsung 55" LED bought sometime way last... summer.


----------



## MichaelK

Arcady said:


> Stop using TiVo as a babysitter?


no kids?


----------



## I_am_not_randy

not sure if anyway said this or not, but now when displaying wishlist results you can quickly more to the next result with channel down. A long time ago, response was quick (less than half a second), then it got very sluggish (way over a second), now its quick agian. For me, this was important when looking at a wishlist result for talk shows, and I was going through all of them to find the ones with guests I was interested in.


----------



## Arcady

MichaelK said:


> no kids?


Did they have KidZone wen you were a kid? Did you die? no? Did your parents pay attention to you or dump you in a room? Did you watch pornos when nobody was watching? Did Darth Vader chop off Luke's hand and it scarred you for life? no? I can;t believe the nanny state we live in now.


----------



## sea7kenp

The reason I like SDUI is that I can watch "My Shows" without an Internet connection (which can be flaky at times). Also, when I was "trying out" HDUI, it crashed a number of times. (Of course, now might be a good time to try it again, since there have been a number of fixes for it).

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


----------



## b_scott

why is "HD Recordings" still here? All my channels are HD, and even if they weren't, the majority in 2012 are. It's redundant.


----------



## morac

sea7kenp said:


> The reason I like SDUI is that I can watch "My Shows" without an Internet connection (which can be flaky at times). Also, when I was "trying out" HDUI, it crashed a number of times. (Of course, now might be a good time to try it again, since there have been a number of fixes for it).


The HDUI "My Shows" has worked without an Internet connection for awhile now. You lose some extra functionality like exploring shows, and some images and the like, but selecting and playing programs works just fine.


----------



## chrispitude

Arcady said:


> Stop using TiVo as a babysitter?


Judgmental much?


----------



## jasew

Arcady said:


> Did they have KidZone wen you were a kid? Did you die? no? Did your parents pay attention to you or dump you in a room? Did you watch pornos when nobody was watching? Did Darth Vader chop off Luke's hand and it scarred you for life? no? I can;t believe the nanny state we live in now.


That argument excludes the use of any modern tool while taking an active role in raising your children. It's true that many parents have "outsourced" their parenting responsibilities to technology and schools. But that doesn't exclude parents from using technology AND being an engaged parent. Responsible parents will take advantage of tools to raise their kids in a conscientious manner.

aalbersmead liked KidZone because it allowed them to choose what programs to put in there. They weren't putting their trust in TV ratings. They made their own decisions about what is appropriate viewing. That sounds like active parenting to me.

People complain that parents should be more involved if they don't like what their kids are seeing. While certainly the most important part is for parents to be involved, another part of that is using tools available to create boundaries until such time the kids are mature enough to make discerning decisions. Parental controls and active parenting are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## ort

Ugh on the babysitter comments. Some people are just jerks.

Anyway, I switched back over to the HD menus to try them out and WOW, do they still suck. No thank you. They feel about half as responsive as the SD menus. Like you are navigating through mud. Just terrible.

Anyway, I haven't had time to read this whole thread, so I don't know if this has been brought up or not... but I find it pretty annoying that suggestions in the SD menus now have yellow icons when they are a day from being deleted or whatever. It makes it really hard to see what is and is not a suggestion. In the past they ALWAYS had the black suggection icon, now 90% of my suggestions have a yellow icon, making them indistinguishable from my normal shows. It's a pretty bad "bug" or "feature" or whatever the heck it is.

Boo.


----------



## lpwcomp

Thanks for reminding me. There is one other thing I have noticed. When looking at the the NPL of a non-Premiere TiVo from he Premiere, all entries are flagged with the "!" in yellow circle icon even if it is KUID.


----------



## chrispitude

For those frustrated by slow live-TV channel change updates introduced by 20.2.2, please see this thread:

TiVo Premiere XL Update Software today - horribly slow channel change


----------



## Arcady

The funny part is that after using the HD menus for a month, when I am suddenly jerked into the SDUI for areas of the menus like settings, it seems like going back in time. There's no way I could go back to using that antiquated 90's interface.

Also, if you just go in the HDUI, use it for 10 minutes and decide it is too slow, you're not seeing a true example. It takes a while for the interface to download all the bits and pieces, and after a few hours speeds up and stays sped up.


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## b_scott

HDUI has been great for awhile. When first released it was slow as molasses - but now it's very functional and I have no issues with it.

My issue is that some are still in SDUI after this long. It's been almost two years and yet many menus still aren't integrated into the HDUI. What is this the case?


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## KillTheGrimace

aalbersmead said:


> I second this!! I am really upset that KidZone has been removed. The "parental controls" are all or nothing, can't pick and choose individual shows. And, the kids can now delete any shows, change any recording options, and access On Demand with no restrictions. So I can set restrictions to G rating, but unfiltered Netflix is accessible. WTH??
> 
> We've been Tivo users from Tivo's birth, but KidZone was a huge factor in staying with Tivo when we recently upgraded. It was the only system that we found that allowed us to pick and choose content according to our judgement, i.e., some PG is fine, but not all.
> 
> So disappointed!!


Seconded. It was a true differentiating factor for TiVo. It gave parents the power to control which shows the kids could watch without relying on the arbitrary TV ratings we're stuck with now.

And it was a set-it-and-forget it kind of thing. Now the wife and I have to enter the password every time the kids want to watch half the shows that had previously been on our KidZone whitelist.

While I realize this is a first-world problem and all, if you had asked me, "Why do you still use TiVo when there are so many alternatives?" KidZone would have been at the top of our list. I don't have that argument anymore.


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## MHunter1

ort said:


> suggestions in the SD menus now have yellow icons when they are a day from being deleted


I noticed this too. The suggestion icon is still permanent when viewing the program's summary page, but not the My Shows list. It must be a bug because the icons should be consistent on both the My Shows list and Program Summary screen, and we already know Suggestions will be first to get deleted when recording space is needed.

It's especially annoying when viewing the My Shows list with Groups turned off because there is no longer any "separator" between where suggestions end and regular recordings begin.


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## ort

Arcady said:


> The funny part is that after using the HD menus for a month, when I am suddenly jerked into the SDUI for areas of the menus like settings, it seems like going back in time. There's no way I could go back to using that antiquated 90's interface.
> 
> Also, if you just go in the HDUI, use it for 10 minutes and decide it is too slow, you're not seeing a true example. It takes a while for the interface to download all the bits and pieces, and after a few hours speeds up and stays sped up.


Maybe I'll force myself to use them for a while and see how it goes. They do look a million times better.


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## sea7kenp

b_scott said:


> My issue is that some are still in SDUI after this long. It's been almost two years and yet many menus still aren't integrated into the HDUI. What is this the case?


Hello Scott. For me, it's because the TiVo is normally just a "utility" to let me watch live TV (including pausing it, when needed), recording shows, and watching them later. SDUI works fine for that, and even works if I "get bored" and look for a YouTube video or something.

When I first got my Premiere (with 2 tuners), I explored HDUI, but it crashed frequently and required working Internet for many of its functions. (In fact, at that time, it refused to let me watch "My Shows", UNLESS Internet was working. Unfortunately, I suffer from "flakey broadband" at times).

Now that I'm told a lot of HDUI bugs have been fixed, I'll revisit it, next time I'm "bored".

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


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## mattack

morac said:


> The HDUI "My Shows" has worked without an Internet connection for awhile now. You lose some extra functionality like exploring shows, and some images and the like, but selecting and playing programs works just fine.


"Just fine" is a vast overstatement. (Disclaimer: I guess my WiFi *bridge* is a lot flakier than I used to think. I've been using it for daily calls for quite a while now, even with an S1 with an Ethernet adapter.. It *seemed* really non flaky.. But now that I have a Premiere 4, it really does go flaky fairly often.)

You get the big blue spinny circle if you try to hit Tivo when it's in live TV if the connection isn't up.. You get a shorter spinny trying to enter a show folder IIRC.. Basically, you get a bunch of waits, and you can eventually get to a show..

But "just fine" it is not.

Heck, the fact that you can't even do a TITLE SEARCH without the Internet is pretty sad.. It even seems to get confused if you try to do a manual recording sometimes, when the internet isn't there. (I sometimes do manual recordings for the Viggle bonus point shows to get just 15 mins or half hour of it to check into.)

Then again, I still haven't switched back to SD UI yet, even though things bug me -- like the channel up/down missing basically everywhere except for generic page up/down (someone ELSE mentioned this at a friend's house too).. The free space indicator is useful to me (I'm a space micromanager), and some more info that you get WITHOUT going more screens deep (e.g. episode #) are useful too and of course I'm putting up with the sluggishness (even when it has a reliable internet connection) compared to SD UI.


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## sea7kenp

mattack said:


> "Just fine" is a vast overstatement. <snip>
> Then again, I still haven't switched back to SD UI yet, even though things bug me -- like the channel up/down missing basically everywhere except for generic page up/down (someone ELSE mentioned this at a friend's house too).. The free space indicator is useful to me (I'm a space micromanager), and some more info that you get WITHOUT going more screens deep (e.g. episode #) are useful too and of course I'm putting up with the sluggishness (even when it has a reliable internet connection) compared to SD UI.


My approach is to use SDUI most of the time, when it's just routine stuff. But I switch to HDUI when I want to check things out, which I intend to do soon.

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


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## Bulldawg9908

KidZone rules, parental controls drool. 

Why do parental controls do nothing to block YouTube? My son loves YouTube because I show him videos on it from time to time. Now, with the HDUI, YouTube is right there at the bottom of my shows. With parental controls enabled, I can watch anything I want on YouTube. There is a whole lot of stuff on YouTube that I would rather not let my 8 year old son see. He's a good kid, so we've told him no YouTube without us present, but what the hell, TiVo?

I saw a previous comment that Netflix was also unrestricted with parental controls. There's a good bit of soft core porn on Netflix streaming, not to mention ultra-violent movies. I don't have a Netflix account anymore, so I can't confirm this, but it would seem TiVo doesn't think YouTube or Netflix are worth blocking with parental controls.

I also don't see a way to disable or delete the YouTube app. Can we have that option, or at least an option to block all apps with parental controls?

As time goes on, I miss Kid Zone more and more. It's almost like no one at TiVo has kids.


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## morac

Bulldawg9908 said:


> I also don't see a way to disable or delete the YouTube app. Can we have that option, or at least an option to block all apps with parental controls?


You can unselect YouTube in the Settings->Channels->Video Channels and it won't show up anywhere, but I agree parental controls should extend to apps.


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## Bulldawg9908

morac said:


> You can unselect YouTube in the Settings->Channels->Video Channels and it won't show up anywhere, but I agree parental controls should extend to apps.


Thanks. I'll do that.

What a non-obvious way to disable YouTube, IMO.


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## chrispitude

Just had our first spontaneous crash/reboot while watching live TV. It happened right at 7pm, so I imagine it was getting ready to record something else. I'm not sure if it was caused by the new software, but I can't remember this ever happening before.

Edit: yes, after reboot, confirmed it was scheduled to record something on the other tuner.


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## smeehrrr

Bad, bad call on removing KidZone. It was an excellent differentiator for Tivo versus generic cable-company DVRs, and it was extremely well implemented.

I think this is the first time I've been genuinely disappointed with Tivo as a company.


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## compnurd

smeehrrr said:


> Bad, bad call on removing KidZone. It was an excellent differentiator for Tivo versus generic cable-company DVRs, and it was extremely well implemented.
> 
> I think this is the first time I've been genuinely disappointed with Tivo as a company.


Now though it hardly differs from say Direct TV Parental controls and is more that most cable controls... I have never used it. Kids are instructed on what they can watch and if they are caught with anything beyond that they get my foot


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## b_scott

sea7kenp said:


> Hello Scott. For me, it's because the TiVo is normally just a "utility" to let me watch live TV (including pausing it, when needed), recording shows, and watching them later. SDUI works fine for that, and even works if I "get bored" and look for a YouTube video or something.
> 
> When I first got my Premiere (with 2 tuners), I explored HDUI, but it crashed frequently and required working Internet for many of its functions. (In fact, at that time, it refused to let me watch "My Shows", UNLESS Internet was working. Unfortunately, I suffer from "flakey broadband" at times).
> 
> Now that I'm told a lot of HDUI bugs have been fixed, I'll revisit it, next time I'm "bored".
> 
> Thank you and best regards,
> 
> Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


Ken,

Thanks for the reply, but I wasn't talking about people still using the SDUI. I was talking about the fact that some menus are STILL not in HD. I can't believe it's gone this long without making it all HD.


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## b_scott

Bulldawg9908 said:


> Thanks. I'll do that.
> 
> What a non-obvious way to disable YouTube, IMO.


it's always been this way. For Netflix and other apps too.


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## sea7kenp

b_scott said:


> Ken,
> 
> Thanks for the reply, but I wasn't talking about people still using the SDUI. I was talking about the fact that some menus are STILL not in HD. I can't believe it's gone this long without making it all HD.


Sorry for the misunderstanding. (I was afraid, for a moment, that TiVo might be getting ready to force everybody to only use their product on an [often overpriced] HD Television!)

The types of menus that I might "expect" a company to keep only one copy of would be some "mainly setup only" menus, that people don't visit often.

What menus are you discussing that you wish were in HD?

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


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## Arcady

How is an HDTV overpriced? You can buy a 32 inch LCD for like $199. I paid over $500 for a 27 inch Sony CRT back in the 90's.


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## sea7kenp

Arcady said:


> How is an HDTV overpriced? You can buy a 32 inch LCD for like $199. I paid over $500 for a 27 inch Sony CRT back in the 90's.


I said "often overpriced". Though I haven't been keeping track of the decreasing prices for the last few years, and so am surprised about the 32 inch price you quoted.

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


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## cjgadd3

Arcady said:


> How is an HDTV overpriced? You can buy a 32 inch LCD for like $199. I paid over $500 for a 27 inch Sony CRT back in the 90's.


I bought a 36" CRT back around '97 and paid about $750. Man, that was a heavy TV!


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## teavaux

compnurd said:


> Now though it hardly differs from say Direct TV Parental controls and is more that most cable controls... I have never used it. Kids are instructed on what they can watch and if they are caught with anything beyond that they get my foot





smeehrrr said:


> Bad, bad call on removing KidZone. It was an excellent differentiator for Tivo versus generic cable-company DVRs, and it was extremely well implemented.
> 
> I think this is the first time I've been genuinely disappointed with Tivo as a company.


I agree with smeehrrr.

KidZone is a *huge* loss - there was nothing like it. I really relied on it when my kids were younger -- now they are all teenagers and above.

With KidZone you could be confident that:
- your kids - (or other adults during parties or babysitting) - could not mess with your recording or season pass settings

- the TV would be reduced to watching the shows you wanted your kids to have recorded or watched - that's it. No accessing YouTube, cable channels you didn't want them to see, or anything else

- the interface would be clean, simple, and effective.

With the current parental controls, kids can change recording settings, delete shows you haven't seen yet, and watch shows on channels you don't want them to see just because they happen to be rated below a certain level.


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## MichaelK

Arcady said:


> Did they have KidZone wen you were a kid? Did you die? no? Did your parents pay attention to you or dump you in a room? Did you watch pornos when nobody was watching? Did Darth Vader chop off Luke's hand and it scarred you for life? no? I can;t believe the nanny state we live in now.


No and i didn't die, but whats wrong with wanting to use technology to make my life and my kids life better and safer?

(also to be clear there wasn't 200 cable channels- there were like 7 broadcast channels and when i was a kid and turned on the tv at 7am or 2pm there was no chance of me getting a menu with the shows my mom or dad recorded from 10pm the night before either)

a nanny state would be someone censoring what my kids watch. there's nothing wrong with ME deciding what i want my kids to watch.

some people are so absolute and judgmental it's more annoying than a nanny state.


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## Joykins

Arcady said:


> Did they have KidZone wen you were a kid? Did you die? no? Did your parents pay attention to you or dump you in a room? Did you watch pornos when nobody was watching? Did Darth Vader chop off Luke's hand and it scarred you for life? no? I can;t believe the nanny state we live in now.


Well, the things we DID have a kid werent taken away by random software updates for unrelated technology. So that was a win for watching Laverne and Shirley in black and white in mom's bedroom.


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