# Mutli-Room Streaming (MRS) will require hardwired ethernet or MoCA



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I totally glossed over this the first time I read it but it appears RCN has confirmed that 14.9 MRS will only be supported for *hardwired *Premiere's and Previews. I'm guessing that TiVo will disable MRS support if a Premiere is networked via a WiFi adapter. It sort of makes sense that TiVo is doing this since it will cut way down on support calls due to WiFi network issues.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26403794-TiVo-RCN-TIVo-Whole-Home-DVR-solution-is-almost-here.










My current Premiere and Premiere Elite are streaming right now via hardwired ethernet.

~Sam


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## premiereman (Aug 18, 2011)

sbiller said:


> I totally glossed over this the first time I read it but it appears RCN has confirmed that 14.9 MRS will only be supported for *hardwired *Premiere's and Previews. I'm guessing that TiVo will disable MRS support if a Premiere is networked via a WiFi adapter. It sort of makes sense that TiVo is doing this since it will cut way down on support calls due to WiFi network issues.
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26403794-TiVo-RCN-TIVo-Whole-Home-DVR-solution-is-almost-here.
> 
> ...


I hope this isn't the case when it's officially released. It seems like they just mention the Q will have to be hardwired, nothing about regular Premiere-to-Premiere MRV streaming. That would really tick many people off including myself who don't have the option to go the hardwired route.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

This very well could be a RCN restriction from a support standpoint especially since it sounds like they will be supplying MoCa adapters.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> This very well could be a RCN restriction from a support standpoint especially since it sounds like they will be supplying MoCa adapters.


You could be right but I wouldn't be surprised at all if TiVo decided to implement this restriction. Perhaps they'll allow a sophisticated user to turn on MRS via a backdoor but I think they are more interested in the quality of the MRS experience versus the uncertainties that accompany MRS over 802.11g/n networks.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I thought I read somewhere that TiVo isn't going to require Premieres to be hard wired for MRS, but they do strongly suggest that you not use wireless or you may suffer from pauses in playback, etc.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

The TiVO would not know if you were using a wireless bridge, correct? I thought it would look like a hardwire connection since it would use the ethernet port. It seem to be an issue only if attempting to use the old usb G dongle.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

So basically, it would only not work for TiVo's using the wireless-G adapter. If that is the case, I doubt it will affect many users. The N-adapter uses the wired connection of the TiVo, so it would work just fine.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

steve614 said:


> I thought I read somewhere that TiVo isn't going to require Premieres to be hard wired for MRS, but they do strongly suggest that you not use wireless or you may suffer from pauses in playback, etc.


Steve, you probably read this statement from Jason in the same thread on DSLReports.










TiVo will be able to tell if a user is using one of their G or N adapters since the setup of the SSID, encryption key, etc. is handled by the software. Of course they won't be able to tell if someone is using an ethernet wifi bridge since that setup is outside the TiVo box and presents the connection to the TiVo as a typical ethernet connection.

The other option that I surmise TiVo could consider would be something similar to what the Xbox and Vudu and other OTT boxes do which is a first time test to determine network quality before deciding on the Quality of Service (QoS) parameters for the connection thus allowing various levels of quality for the connection.

I think its probably a wise decision on TiVo's part (my hypothesis again) to disable all but hardwired connections for MRS.

~Sam


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

sbiller said:


> TiVo will be able to tell if a user is using one of their G or N adapters since the setup of the SSID, encryption key, etc. is handled by the software.


This is not true for the N adapter. It is a wireless bridge that uses the ethernet port of the TiVo. TiVo does not control any of the settings in the software.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> This is not true for the N adapter. It is a wireless bridge that uses the ethernet port of the TiVo. TiVo does not control any of the settings in the software.


How do you set the key and SSID on the TiVO N Adapter?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

sbiller said:


> How do you set the key and SSID on the TiVO N Adapter?


You can either use the WPS button or connect it to your computer and use the web based setup. There's no method for setting it up on the TiVo itself.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

sbiller said:


> How do you set the key and SSID on the TiVO N Adapter?


Wow... you're right! :up: Had no idea that the N adapter works this way. Very cool.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1590/session/L3NpZC9QQk5xRnVHaw%3D%3D


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

sbiller said:


> Steve, you probably read this statement from Jason in the same thread on DSLReports.


Nah he probably read the networking statement on TiVo.com/elite



> Typically a wireless or wired Ethernet connection to your home router is sufficient for items 1-3. However if you have, or plan to have, another TiVo Premiere DVR in your home, and you want to stream programs between them, we recommend a WIRED network connection.
> 
> With a TiVo Premiere Elite, you now have two choices for a wired network connection in your home: Wired Ethernet (plugged directly into your router or into an Ethernet port somewhere else in your home), or MoCA (using the same coaxial cable that distributes television signals in your home).
> 
> MoCA stands for Multimedia over Coaxial Alliance. Like Ethernet, MoCA transfers digital content and information, but uses coaxial cable to do so. So if you cannot access an Ethernet port near your DVR, you can use the same coaxial cable that brings the cable signal to your DVR to connect to your home network.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> Nah he probably read the networking statement on TiVo.com/elite


Thanks for pointing that out!

I'm puzzled why TiVo hasn't petitioned the FCC for a waiver on the Preview. I want one today and waiting 90 days or more is making me very unhappy.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Is the Preview offered by any of the cable companies yet?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> Is the Preview offered by any of the cable companies yet?


No it is supposed to be in November from RCN.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Is the Preview offered by any of the cable companies yet?


They will be released with the Elite most likely as a package deal (whole home DVR). RCN will be the first cable company to do this afaik.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

sbiller said:


> I'm puzzled why TiVo hasn't petitioned the FCC for a waiver on the Preview. I want one today and waiting 90 days or more is making me very unhappy.


+1 :up:

(actually, more like +3, as that is the number of Previews I would like to buy right now)


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> The TiVO would not know if you were using a wireless bridge, correct?


Correct. The official TiVo N adapter is actually a bridge. I have a tiny, USB-powered ASUS bridge (802.11g) that I use with all sorts of gear that hasn't included wireless capabilities. My network is sufficient to stream HD wireless, ever over G, so I ignore the marketing stuff.



jfh3 said:


> (actually, more like +3, as that is the number of Previews I would like to buy right now)


If the Preview is released to retail, I wonder how much it'd go for and if it'd feature some sort of reduced monthly fee (reduced lower than the current MSD of $15).


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

davezatz said:


> If the Preview is released to retail, I wonder how much it'd go for and if it'd feature some sort of reduced monthly fee (reduced lower than the current MSD of $15).


If the price of the box is any higher than $99, it's probably DOA.

As for monthly fee, I don't think there should be one if you already have a Premiere. For those using it as a replacement cable box, between $5 and $10 (if that).


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> If the price of the box is any higher than $99, it's probably DOA.
> 
> As for monthly fee, I don't think there should be one if you already have a Premiere. For those using it as a replacement cable box, between $5 and $10 (if that).


I agree. There is no extra cost to Tivo for the additional boxes. As long as they can turn a profit on the hardware, I don't see why they would charge an extra monthly fee.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

sbiller said:


> I'm puzzled why TiVo hasn't petitioned the FCC for a waiver on the Preview.


It's possible that it doesn't need one. Especially if it's essentially a Premier without a hard drive.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> I agree. There is no extra cost to Tivo for the additional boxes. As long as they can turn a profit on the hardware, I don't see why they would charge an extra monthly fee.


Is that really true? Don't they need to pay a guide data license and some other small 3rd party software licenses on every TiVo box?

I'm guessing we are looking at hardware cost around $99 with monthly cost in the $6 - $10 range with a lifetime option for $149 - $199.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I think that would only be necessary if the unit was a tuner in it's own right. If the Preview is just an extender for recorded content - then no need for a service fee at all... 

I can only see that posibility coming into play if it were designed to stream live TV from the parent, AND the device managed it's own directory listing.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

bradleys said:


> I think that would only be necessary if the unit was a tuner in it's own right. If the Preview is just an extender for recorded content - then no need for a service fee at all...
> 
> I can only see that posibility coming into play if it were designed to stream live TV from the parent, AND the device managed it's own directory listing.


You know it has it's own cable card slot, right?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

generaltso said:


> You know it has it's own cable card slot, right?


I think people tend to put their heads in the sand when it comes to stuff they don't want to hear.

The "Preview" is not a mystery product. It is a non-DVR HD cable STB and a companion product to the upcoming Premiere Q. Both the Preview and Premiere Q are currently designed for cable companies not retail.

Of course we know there is a retail version of the Premiere Q as the Premiere Elite is already here. What we don't know is if there will be a retail version of the Preview. Given that TiVo has said nothing about a retail version of the Preview, I wouldn't expect one.

Thanks,


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I know Tivo jacked the monthly fee for the premiere hardware when they lowered the up front cost and probably it's to offset that. But I wonder if part of making it 19.99 (that is what it is right?)- is to sort of bundle the price of 1 DVR plus 1 preview- sort of like RCN says they will be doing in that post above. 

just a WAG- who knows for sure unless they were to ever mention on an quarterly call...


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

generaltso said:


> You know it has it's own cable card slot, right?


I did not - I have not seen any pictures or specs for the Preview at all. If and when a TiVo extender is produced for the retail market I suppose we will see how it is designed.

But if that extender has a cablecard and acts as a stand alone tuner, I personally see no option but for TiVo to pass the costs for guide data along to the customer - somebody has to pay for it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

bradleys said:


> I did not - I have not seen any pictures or specs for the Preview at all. If and when a TiVo extender is produced for the retail market I suppose we will see how it is designed.
> 
> But if that extender has a cablecard and acts as a stand alone tuner, I personally see no option but for TiVo to pass the costs for guide data along to the customer - somebody has to pay for it.


Check out this from TiVo directly:

http://blog.tivo.com/2011/06/tivo%C2%AE-premiere-q-and-tivo-preview-the-perfect-family-of-set-top-boxes-for-cable-operators%E2%80%99-whole-home-video-solutions/​Pictures here: 
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/13/tivo-premiere-q-and-preview-boxes-are-official-along-with-an-upd/​


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I did not - I have not seen any pictures or specs for the Preview at all.


Preview spec sheet here (PDF):
http://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/business/Generic_SS-2011_Preview.pdf


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> Check out this from TiVo directly:
> 
> http://blog.tivo.com/2011/06/tivo%C2%AE-premiere-q-and-tivo-preview-the-perfect-family-of-set-top-boxes-for-cable-operators%E2%80%99-whole-home-video-solutions/​Pictures here:
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/13/tivo-premiere-q-and-preview-boxes-are-official-along-with-an-upd/​


In that article it says


> Update: @BrennokBob points out a post on DSLReports revealing the Premiere Q will ship (at least for RCN) with a 500GB hard drive, up from 320GB on the standard Premiere but less than the 1TB of the XL model or Virgin's TiVo in the UK.


Is that true? Only a 500GB drive for RCN people who get a Premiere Q?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> In that article it says
> 
> Is that true? Only a 500GB drive for RCN people who get a Premiere Q?


Yeah it is true. This is why originally we weren't sure what size drive the Elite would have.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Very Interesting... For this to be viable in the retail market, the price differential would need to be appreciably less than a standard premier.

As a total package, I can see how this makes a lot of sense as a cable company offering... I suppose as a package deal for a new retail customer it might makes sense as well... (Elite +2 Previews)

I was actually just hoping for a ROKU / Apple TV style box - with a similar price point. ~$100.

This is quite a bit more.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

What size hard drives are in cable company DVRs? Do any of them have 500GB drives?
I think being a cable company offering, the Q is fine with a 500GB hard drive.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

steve614 said:


> What size hard drives are in cable company DVRs? Do any of them have 500GB drives?
> I think being a cable company offering, the Q is fine with a 500GB hard drive.


Fios is just now updating their DVR's from 160GB to 500GB, so this in in line with the best current offerings.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> Nah he probably read the networking statement on TiVo.com/elite


Yes, that is what I saw.

I figured TiVo has no reason to disable a feature just because you're using wireless.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

generaltso said:


> You know it has it's own cable card slot, right?


Why does it need a cable card? Does it have it's own tuner? Why can't you just stream from one of the four tuners on the Elite?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> Why does it need a cable card? Does it have it's own tuner? Why can't you just stream from one of the four tuners on the Elite?


Yes, it has it's own tuner. The box was designed for cable companies and including a tuner was probably a requirement. This way you do not have to deal with issues of streaming live tv from the Q/Elite when a tuner isn't available on the channel you are trying to tune on the Preview.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

"Extender" should be removed from people's minds. This creates too many false impressions about what it is. The Preview's not an extender. It is a non-DVR Tivo STB. It just happens to stream from other Tivos... but all S4 Tivos will stream from each other once they get 14.9, evidently.

In theory, it's possible we could just not install a cablecard and thus use it purely as a streamer. But as it stands, it's an STB that can exist on its own.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> Why does it need a cable card? Does it have it's own tuner? Why can't you just stream from one of the four tuners on the Elite?


Because it was designed for cable companies to be a cable company STB and to be part of a cable company whole home DVR solution with the Premiere Q being the DVR part.

People need to stop talking (and thinking) like a retail version of the Preview exists. It does not and TiVo has not said anything that would lead anyone to believe there is going to be one.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> Because it was designed for cable companies to be a cable company STB and to be part of a cable company whole home DVR solution with the Premiere Q being the DVR part.
> 
> People need to stop talking (and thinking) like a retail version of the Preview exists. It does not and TiVo has not said anything that would lead anyone to believe there is going to be one.


Why wouldn't they bring the Preview to retail? A very high percentage of TiVo retail users are on CableCARD networks. My speculation is that they are waiting for RCN to roll-out the Preview first to work out some of the bugs before bringing it to retail. The other possibility that I've been contemplating is the software isn't quite ready on the Preview to support OTT networks like Amazon Instant, Netflix, Blockbuster, etc. which aren't required for the RCN deployment. I would be extremely surprised if we don't have a Preview at retail sometime in the first quarter of 2012.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

sbiller said:


> Why wouldn't they bring the Preview to retail?


I have no idea if TiVo will or will not provide a retail version of the Preview. But if they do TiVo has to believe it will be profitable for them.

TiVo saw an opportunity with the Premiere Q, they THX certified it, added a glow remote, installed a bigger hard drive and are selling it for a premium in retail as the Premiere Elite.

At what price point would the Preview have to be sold at retail to be profitable? A Premiere with MSD lifetime is under $500 so how much would someone be willing to pay for STB with no DVR? Would it be enough to be profitable?

I see lots of down side for TiVo in providing this at retail and little up side. If they build a tuner-less Roku type box people will ***** they don't have live TV because the DVR will end up not having enough tuners and if they build a full on STB it is going to cost to much. Either way TiVo loses because they make someone unhappy.

Only time will tell but for now the Preview does not exist in retail and TiVo has not indicated it will ever exist in retail.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

sbiller said:


> Why wouldn't they bring the Preview to retail? A very high percentage of TiVo retail users are on CableCARD networks. My speculation is that they are waiting for RCN to roll-out the Preview first to work out some of the bugs before bringing it to retail. The other possibility that I've been contemplating is the software isn't quite ready on the Preview to support OTT networks like Amazon Instant, Netflix, Blockbuster, etc. which aren't required for the RCN deployment. I would be extremely surprised if we don't have a Preview at retail sometime in the first quarter of 2012.


Perhaps the Preview will have the rumored upgraded versions of those OTT aps and, as you speculate, they aren't ready yet. The real question is do we know what the final h/w configuration is and even if the need an FCC waiver.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> The real question is do we know what the final h/w configuration is and even if the need an FCC waiver.


I don't think there are any questions about the Preview that haven't been answered. We have specs, pictures of the box, it is ready to go to cable companies with the Premiere Q and it is scheduled for a November release by RCN how much more final does it need to be?

What is not know is if TiVo plans on releasing anything similar to the Preview to the retail market or not. There has been nothing from TiVo, not even a rumor.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> I don't think there are any questions about the Preview that haven't been answered.


There hasn't been any information released on how the Preview works. What does the interface look like, does it work with multiple Elites, etc. Does it work with video providers (Netflix, etc).


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

atmuscarella said:


> At what price point would the Preview have to be sold at retail to be profitable? A Premiere with MSD lifetime is under $500 so how much would someone be willing to pay for STB with no DVR? Would it be enough to be profitable?


This is what I keep trying to tell people. Right now there's no opportunity for TiVo to make money on a retail Preview. There's zero established market for a retail non-DVR cable box - even the new TiVo interfaced Insignia TVs don't bother offering cableCARD capability. The retail market for a cable box to complement the Elite depends on how that product sells.

How the Elite sells will determine whether it's worth offering the Preview at retail and what kind of pricing they can afford to offer. Who knows, maybe if they can justify the product based on Elite sales then they could establish a foothold into the cable box market.

One way that TiVo might keep the retail price affordable and not cannibalize their subscriptions too much would be to offer it for $99 with no subscription (presumably with no guide or a Basic level guide) but charge $5 per month per account to enable streaming to non-subscription devices.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

rainwater said:


> There hasn't been any information released on how the Preview works. What does the interface look like, does it work with multiple Elites, etc. Does it work with video providers (Netflix, etc).


It is posts like this that I don't understand.

The Preview is only available for rent from select cable operators and at the beginning only available as a package with the Premiere Q also only available from the same select cable operators. It will have the same restrictions as the Premieres and Premiere Qs rented by cable companies (No Netflix). There is a spec sheet (link in this thread) that lists the general features (including that it uses TiVo's HDUI) and how it works, again with Premieres and Premiere Qs rented from your cable company.

It is not intended to work with stand alone Premieres or Premiere Elites. I am not saying it will not, but I find it unlikely that someone is going to Rent a Premiere Q/Preview package from their cable company and then go out and buy stand alone Elites.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> It is posts like this that I don't understand.
> 
> The Preview is only available for rent from select cable operators and at the beginning only available as a package with the Premiere Q also only available from the same select cable operators. It will have the same restrictions as the Premieres and Premiere Qs rented by cable companies (No Netflix). There is a spec sheet (link in this thread) that lists the general features (including that it uses TiVo's HDUI) and how it works, again with Premieres and Premiere Qs rented from your cable company.
> 
> It is not intended to work with stand alone Premieres or Premiere Elites. I am not saying it will not, but I find it unlikely that someone is going to Rent a Premiere Q/Preview package from their cable company and then go out and buy stand alone Elites.


Agree that we understand the hardware specs and interfaces of the Preview yet nobody has reported on seeing one in action. We won't have long to wait since RCN is launching the Preview next month.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

nrc said:


> This is what I keep trying to tell people. Right now there's no opportunity for TiVo to make money on a retail Preview. There's zero established market for a retail non-DVR cable box - even the new TiVo interfaced Insignia TVs don't bother offering cableCARD capability. The retail market for a cable box to complement the Elite depends on how that product sells.


The Preview will work equally well with a standard Premiere and Premiere XL once they are upgraded to 14.9. It also makes the TiVo platform more compelling for a user on Comcast and Cox who will be getting the retail Premiere platform integrated with their VOD services.



nrc said:


> How the Elite sells will determine whether it's worth offering the Preview at retail and what kind of pricing they can afford to offer. Who knows, maybe if they can justify the product based on Elite sales then they could establish a foothold into the cable box market.


I agree that the Elite's 4-tuners helps justify a Preview box but I think there are subscribers who would be interested in a lower cost Preview for a 2nd or 3rd television where 2 or 4 tuners are sufficient in their household to capture the majority of linear programming.



nrc said:


> One way that TiVo might keep the retail price affordable and not cannibalize their subscriptions too much would be to offer it for $99 with no subscription (presumably with no guide or a Basic level guide) but charge $5 per month per account to enable streaming to non-subscription devices.


Certainly an option. A Premiere with Lifetime is approximately $450 so I personally can justify buying a Preview for my 3rd television for a price that doesn't exceed $300. If TiVo sells it for $149 with $149 lifetime or $6.95/month I think it will sell pretty well at retail and establishes a logical price point below the price point of a Premiere. I'm guessing the hardware in a Preview costs TiVo somewhere around $200 with the Elite rolling in around $350 for TiVo at the Product Cost Line (PCL).


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

sbiller said:


> Agree that we understand the hardware specs and interfaces of the Preview yet nobody has reported on seeing one in action. We won't have long to wait since RCN is launching the Preview next month.


Well, then I missed something, because I don't know the specs. For example, does it have all the tuner types so an FCC waiver would not be required? How many of each are there?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

nrc said:


> This is what I keep trying to tell people. Right now there's no opportunity for TiVo to make money on a retail Preview. There's zero established market for a retail non-DVR cable box.


Strongly disagree. There have been no devices in that market. Many people would be interested in a better set top than most of the rentals provided by the cable companies, just like those folks that figured out that renting a cable modem didn't make financial sense.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> Strongly disagree. There have been no devices in that market. Many people would be interested in a better set top than most of the rentals provided by the cable companies, just like those folks that figured out that renting a cable modem didn't make financial sense.


There are no stand alone cable STBs because of cable cards and tuning adapters. Why would someone want to buy a cable STB that still required them to rent a cable card and deal with all the associated problems and then still not be able to use their cable companies VOD.

The Preview units that people will be able to rent from cable companies will be able to access that cable companies VOD and will include the necessary cable card and because you are renting it from the cable company the cable company will have a vested interest in making work right.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> Well, then I missed something, because I don't know the specs. For example, does it have all the tuner types so an FCC waiver would not be required? How many of each are there?


Do cable companies actually need to get their own STBs FCC approved? Did the FCC have to approve all of the digital only FIOS STBs and DVRs?

Anyway the Preview is set to be operational next month with the Premiere Q, I would have to believe any FCC approves both needed would be being obtained at the same time.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> Do cable companies actually need to get their own STBs FCC approved?


Nope. That's why there is no approval for the Q, but there is for the Elite.



> Anyway the Preview is set to be operational next month with the Premiere Q, I would have to believe any FCC approves both needed would be being obtained at the same time.


The Q doesn't need an FCC waiver, nor does the Preview if it is provided by the cable company and not made available directly to the consumer.

Depending on what hardware is actually in the Preview (e.g. tuners), it may not need a waiver, even if it is offered at retail.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> There are no stand alone cable STBs because of cable cards and tuning adapters. Why would someone want to buy a cable STB that still required them to rent a cable card?


You rent a CableCARD either way. With the new FCC rules, price to the consumer has to be the same, whether it is in a rented or owned box, and, if a STB box is included in the package, the customer is entitled to a bring your own box discount.

I agree VOD is an issue now, but won't be for all that long. Tuning adapter - again, doesn't really matter - if you need one, you will have one, but no benefit in owning it.

Again, this no different than the "own your cable modem, rather then rent it" option.
[/QUOTE]


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

A retail version of the Preview will need to obtain the same "Digital Cable Ready" waiver that TiVo obtained from the FCC for the Elite. The Preview data sheet available from TiVo's web site clearly excludes Analog Cable and thus a waiver is required. It wouldn't make sense for TiVo to bring a retail Preview to market that included OTA tuners and Analog cable tuners. Both would add significant cost and power to the STB.



> Federal Communications Commission's ("Commission") requirements mandate that electronics equipment marketed as "digital cable ready" include tuners that are *capable of tuning over-the-air broadcast channels* and *analog cable channels*.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> You rent a CableCARD either way. With the new FCC rules, price to the consumer has to be the same, whether it is in a rented or owned box, and, if a STB box is included in the package, the customer is entitled to a bring your own box discount.
> 
> I agree VOD is an issue now, but won't be for all that long. Tuning adapter - again, doesn't really matter - if you need one, you will have one, but no benefit in owning it.
> 
> Again, this no different than the "own your cable modem, rather then rent it" option.


Are you saying that cable provided STBs/DVRs have all the same issues as a stand alone TiVo when it comes to cable cards and tuning adapters?

I know that new cable STBs/DVRs had to use cable cards but my understanding was they actually worked and were prepared before being sent out to the field and didn't require tuning adapters because of the 2 way communication they have that a stand alone TiVo doesn't have.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

I would have to speculate that a consumer version of the Preview would likely sell for $199.95, and include functions of a Cablecard tuner, and a streamer for Series 4 DVRs.

Subscribing it to the TiVo service would add guide data, access to OTT services, and perhaps plug in DVR (if it has an eSATA connection).


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

$200 + a required sub? I don't think so, this is a dead price point. Not when you can buy a Premiere for less than $100.

They've already crossed the bridge to cheap hardware with subscriptions subsidizing the box price, don't see that changing with the Preview (if it ever sees the light of day at retail).

I could see $50 with a mandatory $5-10 monthly sub, and maybe $200-300 w/lifetime. Would suck, but they want their money.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

classicsat said:


> I would have to speculate that a consumer version of the Preview would likely sell for $199.95, and include functions of a Cablecard tuner, and a streamer for Series 4 DVRs.
> 
> Subscribing it to the TiVo service would add guide data, access to OTT services, and perhaps plug in DVR (if it has an eSATA connection).


I think if a preview actually hits the retail market - it will have to be significantly cheeper then that... You are in the Total cost premier territory with that estimate, at that price, what's the point?

I think you are going to see your best deals in a packaged product - say two previews with an elite. As for pricing - I think the unit would be $99. - As for a sub, I think the trick is going to be tieing it to a parent box at a rate 1/2 of a standard sub - if you try to use a preview standalone - it will cost you the higher rate.

The trick is to convince TiVo that this is a model that will increase their market share... If the total number of full service units sold goes down because people are not buying several units for a home - this will be a loosing scenario for TiVo. If this becomes an attractive option for a larger population then it can be a big winner for TiVo.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

atmuscarella said:


> Are you saying that cable provided STBs/DVRs have all the same issues as a stand alone TiVo when it comes to cable cards and tuning adapters?


Of course not. But the recent FCC rules make the playing field more level.

If cable STB's came without the CableCARD pre-installed/paired, you'd see pretty much the same problems, but the MSOs stacked the deck in their favor.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I think if a preview actually hits the retail market - it will have to be significantly cheeper then that... You are in the Total cost premier territory with that estimate, at that price, what's the point?
> 
> I think you are going to see your best deals in a packaged product - say two previews with an elite. As for pricing - I think the unit would be $99. - As for a sub, I think the trick is going to be tieing it to a parent box at a rate 1/2 of a standard sub - if you try to use a preview standalone - it will cost you the higher rate.
> 
> The trick is to convince TiVo that this is a model that will increase their market share... If the total number of full service units sold goes down because people are not buying several units for a home - this will be a loosing scenario for TiVo. If this becomes an attractive option for a larger population then it can be a big winner for TiVo.


If they do offer one for retail I could see $99 and then a $4 or $5 subscription fee. I would not have a problem paying that for a Preview. I would then get another Elite and get the Preview and then sell my four Lifetime Premieres, keeping my one premiere with $6.95 a month service.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

jfh3 said:


> Of course not. But the recent FCC rules make the playing field more level.


Maybe in time if enough people complain, but for now posts in this forum show that CableCARDs still aren't hassle free and few people seem to actually bother to complain about it.

I'd be happy if it turned out that you're right about the market for a non-DVR box. I just don't see it. TiVo has a hard enough time convincing consumers that it's worthwhile to go through a cableCARD installation for their DVR.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Runs SDUI and HDUI
NO Hard Drive , No Buffer, Thus no Pausing ability on LIVE TV
MOCA Built In
NO YOUTUBE at this point, thats coming later.
Pandora and most of the other apps are on the box
Music / Pictures , works with TiVo Desktop
No Fan
1 LED
You can turn off the LED
VOD

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26439933-










~Sam


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

If Tivo releases a retail Preview I will definitely buy 2 or 3 of them and an Elite. I jumped ship to Moxi a few years ago and I wouldn't mind jumping back - the Elite looks pretty good to me.

There are things I don't like about Moxi but multi-room is something they absolutely got right and the main reason I went that route. For those that aren't familiar, they have the main DVR box (3 tuner) and diskless, fanless streaming-only clients (Mates). The Mates sell for $300 (no sub), when you buy the DVR you can buy 1 or 2 of them as a "bundle" for $200/ea. The Mates have no built-in tuner but they can stream live TV (with pause, etc) from the main box. It works really well overall.

I'd be happy if the Preview was $300 (including lifetime), very happy if it was $200.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I noted this in the main Elite forum, but @tivodesign tweeted today that MRS is not currently supported Elite to Elite.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> I noted this in the main Elite forum, but @tivodesign tweeted today that MRS is not currently supported Elite to Elite.


I thought a couple of people who had two or more Elites were using MRS between them?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

No I think we have only seen elite to premiere and someone else is currently able to stream premiere to premiere.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> I noted this in the main Elite forum, but @tivodesign tweeted today that MRS is not currently supported Elite to Elite.


I doubt many people have 2 Elites at this point but it is strange that they wouldn't enable it yet. I'm sure it will come pretty soon though. Is streaming from a Premiere to an Elite enabled by default yet?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I doubt many people have 2 Elites at this point but it is strange that they wouldn't enable it yet. I'm sure it will come pretty soon though. Is streaming from a Premiere to an Elite enabled by default yet?


Not on any of mine.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Not on any of mine.


So basically streaming just isn't enabled on any Premiere combinations? Makes sense that Elite to Elite isn't enabled then.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

No clue as to why some have shown that they can use MRS. I have two Elites and don't have MRS. 

But if @tivodesign says it's not supported, I'm not going to worry about it now. I read "not supported" as "not supported yet"


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