# Game of Thrones 5/10/15 "Kill the Boy"



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

"Fewer."

I'd just said the same thing, so I laughed.

What do we know about how greyscale works? How was the princesses arrested? I take it there's possible treatment for Mormont so he doesn't turn into a stone man?

That's quite a marriage Dany has arranged for herself.

Jon's logic regarding the wildlings is sound. Frustrating so few seem to recognize that. 

Poor Sansa. As if things couldn't get any worse now if she needs help she needs to visit the tower where her brother was injured.

I wonder if Reek still knows those weren't Sansa's brothers he killed or if he lost that knowledge? If he does remember did he realize he shouldn't let his brother know? Might he eventually tell Sansa they're alive?


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

His brother? Do you mean Roose Bolton? Theon Greyjoy only has a sister, right?


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

zordude said:


> His brother? Do you mean Roose Bolton? Theon Greyjoy only has a sister, right?


Correct, Ramsey is not his brother, far from it 

Great episode, going to have to re-watch at least another time or two to pick up all the nuances...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I got the sense that Reek/Theon knew it would be a bad idea to divulge the fact that he didn't kill Bran and Rickon in front of Ramsay. I suspect he'll find a more appropriate time to tell Sansa in private. 

So glad that Jorah untied Tyrion and that they'll now be traveling more or less as equals. The Tyrion parts are my favorite and he's much better when he's allowed to speak freely. I sure hope Jorah is careful not to touch Tyrion and infect him. 

I like that Stannis recognizes the fact that whatever Sam did to kill the White Walker, that's information that everyone will need. 

Not a single scene in Kings Landing. That's pretty rare. We also didn't get any continuation of the Jaime/Bronn /Sand Snakes story in Dorne. Can't wait for next week.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Robin said:


> "Fewer."
> 
> I'd just said the same thing, so I laughed.


My response was a very audible guffaw.



Robin said:


> What do we know about how greyscale works?


It's the Westeros Herpes.

--Carlos "also said the word 'fewer' out loud" V.


----------



## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

It should be interesting when Brienne finds out that Stannis has come to Winterfell.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Unbeliever said:


> My response was a very audible guffaw.


Why am I not surprised Stannis is a grammar nazi?

(I hasten to add, I was thinking it as he was saying it...)


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm sure everyone knows this but I'll state it for people who forget: Ramsey and his dad already know that Reek did not kill Bran and Rickon. They sent Loche to Castle Black to kill them both (and Jon Snow). So the only person Reek was lying to was Sansa.

Fewer. OMG. I could not believe it and had to turn CC on to make sure that's what he said. We should add King of TCF to Stannis' title.

What a contrast between the heartwarming exchange betwee Stannis and his daughter in the last episode and the one between the 2 Boltons in this one.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

I must have totally missed the "fewer" thing, because I have no idea what any of you are talking about.

I'm assuming that was Drogon we saw flying over Valyria, but I admit I can't really identify him that easily. Am I mistaken, and there are actually more dragons than Dany's three? I assume that's not the case, because surely SOMEONE in the world would have learned about it? Assuming it was him, interesting that he seems drawn back to Valyria, which was the origin of the dragons, if I recall correctly.

About the gray scale
1) Is that the same thing as the "Doom of Valyria" that's been referenced?
2) Are the stone men sane or not? Is it like a zombie thing, where they lose their mind? Or is it just that they've become sort of savage-like because they've been abandoned there by everyone?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

If it wasn't Drogon, they went to great length to make this dragon look like him. I'm assuming it's Drogon.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> I must have totally missed the "fewer" thing, because I have no idea what any of you are talking about.


During the debate at Castle Black. Someone said there would be less Wildlings. Stannis said to himself "fewer". The Onion Knight asked him "what was that?" and Stannis said something along the lines of "don't worry about it".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> I must have totally missed the "fewer" thing, because I have no idea what any of you are talking about.


Night's Watch goon: "Less enemies for us." 
Stannis: "Fewer." 
Davos: "What?" 
Stannis: "Nothing."


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Jon: Less enemies for us.
> Stannis: Fewer.
> Davos: What?
> Stannis: Nothing.


I don't think it was Jon that said the "less enemied for us". How dare you attribute this mistake to him?!


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Ha! I was faster and documented your mistake!


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

LordKronos said:


> 2) Are the stone men sane or not? Is it like a zombie thing, where they lose their mind? Or is it just that they've become sort of savage-like because they've been abandoned there by everyone?


Sam's girlfriend said two of her sisters had it and that they were "animals". I'm thinking it's what happens when there is too much of it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I don't think it was Jon that said the "less enemied for us". How dare you attribute this mistake to him?!





Anubys said:


> Ha! I was faster and documented your mistake!


To be fair, it wasn't my mistake...I cut-n-pasted it from a review, then corrected it.

And at least I (and the person who wrote the review) can spell "enemies!" [/Stannis]


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> To be fair, it wasn't my mistake...I cut-n-pasted it from a review, then corrected it.
> 
> And at least I (and the person who wrote the review) can spell "enemies!" [/Stannis]


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> To be fair, it wasn't my mistake...I cut-n-pasted it from a review, then corrected it.
> 
> And at least I (and the person who wrote the review) can spell "enemies!" [/Stannis]


To be fair, I cannot spell.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Unbeliever said:


> It's the Westeros Herpes.
> 
> --Carlos "also said the word 'fewer' out loud" V.


I thought the "Pox" was Westeros herpes. Greyscale is something different.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> If it wasn't Drogon, they went to great length to make this dragon look like him. I'm assuming it's Drogon.


It was.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Definitely Drogon. And Greyscale, well better to just quote the Wiki 



> Greyscale is a dreaded and usually fatal disease that can leave flesh stiff and dead, and the skin cracked and flaking, and stone-like to the touch. Those that manage to survive a bout with the illness will be immune from ever contracting it again, but the flesh damaged by the ravages of the disease will never heal, and they will be scarred for life.
> 
> Princess Shireen Baratheon caught greyscale as an infant and survived, but the ordeal left half of her face disfigured by the disease.[1]
> 
> People afflicted by the disease are often called "Stone Men", due to how it makes their skin hard and dead.[2] Stone Men are often pushed out from society, living in colonies established in ruins at the fringes of civilization, such as the ruins of Old Valyria.[3]


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Night's Watch goon: "Less enemies for us." Stannis: "Fewer." Davos: "What?" Stannis: "Nothing."


I ran that scene back about 3 times and could never make out what he said. Since I was too lazy to turn on the cc, thanks for posting that.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Jstkiddn said:


> I ran that scene back about 3 times and could never make out what he said. Since I was too lazy to turn on the cc, thanks for posting that.


I find it really interesting that they put such a line into the show - I had to rewind to catch what he said and how it would affect the story, only to hear "fewer" and say um, huh?


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Predictiction: That kid, Ollie (?) is going to be trouble. As a matter of fact, when I saw the title "Kill the Boy", I thought that's who it was referring to.


----------



## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

dwatt said:


> I thought the "Pox" was Westeros herpes. Greyscale is something different.


Greyscale could be the Westeros leprosy. Lepra means "scaly" in Latin.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Robin said:


> That's quite a marriage Dany has arranged for herself.


I'm beginning to think that Dany is going to get so bogged down managing things on that side of the Sea, that she never even makes it to Westeros.


----------



## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

tlc said:


> I'm beginning to think that Dany is going to get so bogged down managing things on that side of the Sea, that she never even makes it to Westeros.


Assuming Tyrion ever makes it to her, and further assuming she will hear what he has to say, I would think he could be a pretty darned valuable adviser.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Notice the little talk and the timing of what happened next:

(paraphrasing)
"Daenerys is alone in the world, all of her family was killed, she has nobody..." 
-Jon Snow enters the room. 

Gives a lot of foreshadowing to the fact that she could be his step-sister. I didn't spoiler this because I didn't read the books, and I have no idea if this is the case. It is just speculation based on the new stuff we keep hearing about Rhaegar Targaryen and his "relationship" with Lyanna Stark.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

nickels said:


> Gives a lot of foreshadowing to the fact that she could be his step-sister aunt.


Under that theory, her brother is Jon's father.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

pjenkins said:


> I find it really interesting that they put such a line into the show - I had to rewind to catch what he said and how it would affect the story, only to hear "fewer" and say um, huh?


It was a little present for the grammar Nazis.

Those of us who'd just cringed and said "fewer" after hearing "less" got it instantly.



nickels said:


> Notice the little talk and the timing of what happened next:
> 
> (paraphrasing)
> "Daenerys is alone in the world, all of her family was killed, she has nobody..."
> ...


I haven't read the books either and I agree that this looks like where we're headed.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

nickels said:


> Notice the little talk and the timing of what happened next: (paraphrasing) "Daenerys is alone in the world, all of her family was killed, she has nobody..." -Jon Snow enters the room. Gives a lot of foreshadowing to the fact that she could be his step-sister. I didn't spoiler this because I didn't read the books, and I have no idea if this is the case. It is just speculation based on the new stuff we keep hearing about Rhaegar Targaryen and his "relationship" with Lyanna Stark.


 Yes! I did notice that.

I was trying to remember last night.....have they ever had any scenes showing Jon with fire, or more to the point, showing him being burned/ not burned?


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> I got the sense that Reek/Theon knew it would be a bad idea to divulge the fact that he didn't kill Bran and Rickon in front of Ramsay. I suspect he'll find a more appropriate time to tell Sansa in private.


Reek/Theon already told Ramsay and Roose Bolton that Bran and Rickon are still alive. Remember the guy Locke that joined the nights watch because the Boltons believed that Jon Snow maybe sheltering them? Hodor/Bran killed him at Craster's Keep, then Bran and company saw Jon, but decided it was better (for some reason) that Jon shouldn't know about them being alive and continued their journey.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> Yes! I did notice that.
> 
> I was trying to remember last night.....have they ever had any scenes showing Jon with fire, or more to the point, showing him being burned/ not burned?


Not that I recall. But note that Jon has black hair. So he is probably more Stark than Targaryan.

I really liked how Stannis went to talk to Sam personally to find out about the White Walkers. We were all not happy with Sam for dropping one of the precious knives (dragonglass?) but Stannis did tell us that they have a ton of them at Dragonstone (?). I think that is the castle that got burned down by dragons; which explains the abundance of the dragonglass there.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> I was trying to remember last night.....have they ever had any scenes showing Jon with fire, or more to the point, showing him being burned/ not burned?


Wasn't he burned in the dead zombie attack against the previous Lord Commander, Mormont?



Anubys said:


> I really liked how Stannis went to talk to Sam personally to find out about the White Walkers. We were all not happy with Sam for dropping one of the precious knives (dragonglass?) but Stannis did tell us that they have a ton of them at Dragonstone (?). I think that is the castle that got burned down by dragons; which explains the abundance of the dragonglass there.


No, Dragonstone was where the Targaryens moved when they left Valeria, a couple centuries before the Doom destroyed it (and most of the other Valerians). They took their dragons with them. This may be why there is dragonglass there. Dragonstone is still in good shape, and is where all the Stannis scenes were set before he left on his journey.

Harrenhall is the castle that was destroyed by dragons.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

So how come Dany didn't try to ride her dragons?

Is it safe to assume that the "Doom" was a volcanic eruption?


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Wasn't he burned in the dead zombie attack against the previous Lord Commander, Mormont?


Good memory! Right near the end, at about the 2 minute mark. He grabs the lantern and throws it at the wight. It makes a sizzling sound and he screams a bit, like it hurts. Does your memory recall seeing him with the hand wrapped up like it was injured? edit to add: Ugh...disabled to play here. You will have to click through to YouTube.






We had quite a bit of foreshadowing with Dany. Remember in one of the very first episodes, when we first meet her, she's effortlessly getting into the very hot bath water as her maid calls out "No, it's too hot!".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> So how come Dany didn't try to ride her dragons?


They weren't of a rideable size before she started being mean to them, were they?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They weren't of a rideable size before she started being mean to them, were they?


Sure. Drogon was huge before he started going away for a long time. She only recently chained the other 2.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Huh, I thought at that time they weren't much bigger than she was...


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Huh, I thought at that time they weren't much bigger than she was...


I remember them being pretty big when she chained them up.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Speaking of that, how did she even get the dragons into that dungeon? How are they going to get out? I doubt there is a big roll-up garage door on the other side of the room.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Under that theory, her brother is Jon's father.


Correct - what was I smok... I mean thinking? Jon could be Dany's nephew not step-bro.

I am not sure why everyone is so afraid of the white walkers? They seem pretty "easy" to beat. Burn them or cut them with dragonglass (which isn't rare apparently there is lots of it available). Dany also has a dragon, so she seems all set with the best weapon to defeat that army.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

nickels said:


> I am not sure why everyone is so afraid of the white walkers? They seem pretty "easy" to beat. Burn them or cut them with dragonglass (which isn't rare apparently there is lots of it available). Dany also has a dragon, so she seems all set with the best weapon to defeat that army.


Except at this point there are only about three people who know about the dragonglass; they don't exactly have flamethrowers; and hardly anybody knows (or believes) that Dany has dragons, and even if they knew, they'd probably also know that she and they haven't been speaking lately.

The thought of a horde of almost unkillable zombies marching on your lands, and turning everybody they meet into more of them, has got to freak people out a little...at least those that believe they exist, which I don't think are very many yet.

Remember, the only thing anybody (except Sam) knows about the White Walkers is that every time they've met them, humans have been slaughtered. Even when Sam killed the one, he killed the one...and the one's buddies killed fifty Night's Watchers.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

nickels said:


> I am not sure why everyone is so afraid of the white walkers? They seem pretty "easy" to beat. Burn them or cut them with dragonglass (which isn't rare apparently there is lots of it available). Dany also has a dragon, so she seems all set with the best weapon to defeat that army.


All they need is Rick and Daryl.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Robin said:


> It was a little present for the grammar Nazis.
> 
> Those of us who'd just cringed and said "fewer" after hearing "less" got it instantly.


What makes that more funny is that until the late 18th century "less" would have been grammatically correct to use.

Considering Game of Thrones isn't taking place in our historical past, it's possible that wasn't the case for them.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> 1) Is that the same thing as the "Doom of Valyria" that's been referenced?





Anubys said:


> Is it safe to assume that the "Doom" was a volcanic eruption?


The Doom of Valyria is only referred to in passing in the books, since it took place more than 400 years before the events that we're dealing with now. It was a cataclysmic event that involved multiple volcanic eruptions - there were/are 14 volcanoes in/around Valyria that all erupted around the same time - and the resultant tsunamis. The cause of the Doom, and whether it was entirely natural, is unknown.

Before the Doom, Valyria was on a large peninsula on the southern coast of Essos, just east of Slaver's Bay. The Doom caused the Valyrian portion of the peninsula to literally break off from the rest of the continent, and created the Smoking Sea between Essos and the newly-created islands where the ruins of Valyria are situated.










To save time, Jorah decided to sail through the Smoking Sea to get to Mereen from Volantis.

After the Doom, the only Valyrians left were the Targaryens, who had recently settled on Dragonstone, which is an island off of the coast of Westeros, in the entrance to Blackwater Bay. The Doom spurred the Targaryens to make plans that eventually led to them conquering Westeros.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They weren't of a rideable size before she started being mean to them, were they?


 Mean as in not letting them kill farmers' boys and eat them for lunch? 



DreadPirateRob said:


> To save time, Jorah decided to sail through the Smoking Sea to get to Mereen from Volantis.


And also because there weren't any pirates there. I guess the pirates knew what they were doing.

Is there some connection between Dragons and White Walkers? Is dragonglass connected to dragons--like it comes off their scales or something? Or is it just called that because they can't melt it?

Stannis is starting to look like a pretty smart guy. But then the Red Lady hasn't given him any orders lately. I wonder if she can lead them to Winterfel by melting a path through the snow?

How would the Wildlings turn into Walkers? Is it just that everyone who dies anywhere around them turns, or just people they kill? They don't bite or anything, do they?

When a year or so of winter comes along, I wonder if the Narrow Sea freezes?


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Is there some connection between Dragons and White Walkers? Is dragon stone connected to dragons--like it comes off their scales or something? Or is it just called that because they can't melt it?


There is no "known" connection between Dragons and White Walkers, but I've always assumed (as have most book readers I'm sure) that, since the whole saga is known as A Song Of Ice And Fire, the denouement will involve a clash between White Walkers (Ice) and Dragons (Fire).

Dragon_glass_ - I assume that's what you meant, since Dragon_stone_ is an island fortress discussed above - is obsidian, or volcanic glass. Formed when molten lava (i.e. liquid fire) is rapidly cooled molten lava. I presume that's the reason it can kill white walkers when no other blade can.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> How would the Wildlings turn into Walkers? Is it just that everyone who dies anywhere around them turns, or just people they kill? They don't bite or anything, do they?


There are White Walkers, and there are wights. Wights are men who are killed by White Walkers, who will then reanimate by (after?) nightfall unless their bodies are burned first. They can be killed by fire. Jon Snow killed a wight who had come after Lord Commander Mormont by throwing a lantern at him back in the first season.

The only time we've seen someone turn into (we think) a White Walker was in S4 when one of Craster's newborn sons was left outside for a White Walker, who took it to some sort of group of WWs, one of whom touched the baby and turned his eyes blue.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Mean as in not letting them kill farmers' boys and eat them for lunch?


Dragons will be dragons. That's like punishing you for posting on a message board!


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Jstkiddn said:


> As a matter of fact, when I saw the title "Kill the Boy", I thought that's who it was referring to.


When I saw the title, I thought they were referring to King Tommen and I thought this was going to be a VERY different episode.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> When I saw the title, I thought they were referring to King Tommen and I thought this was going to be a VERY different episode.


Surely they were messing with us, having a title like that on a show like this and it turning out to be metaphorical...


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> Good memory! Right near the end, at about the 2 minute mark. He grabs the lantern and throws it at the wight. It makes a sizzling sound and he screams a bit, like it hurts. Does your memory recall seeing him with the hand wrapped up like it was injured?
> 
> We had quite a bit of foreshadowing with Dany. Remember in one of the very first episodes, when we first meet her, she's effortlessly getting into the very hot bath water as her maid calls out "No, it's too hot!".


Yes, he burnt himself. Wore a bandage for a couple episodes, and was obviously hurt.

The scene with Dany was in the very first episode. Might have been her first scene. At the time, it didn't seem like a significant foreshadowment.

We knew nothing...


----------



## markbox (May 3, 2004)

At first I thought Stanis was correcting grammar when he said "fewer". Then it occurred to me that perhaps he was referring to the reduction of the numbers opposed to John's plan. As in "fewer" people seem to be opposed to the plan than when it was first voiced.

I find it fascinating to think that when Jon is speaking to Maester Aemon that he may well be speaking to his great-great-uncle. And that perhaps Maester Aemon knows the true lineage of Jon Snow and is manipulating events to benefit Jon and the family name.

Also, for some reason I completely missed that Sansa had returned to Winterfell. I thought she was at Moat Cailin (or did they never go to Moat Cailin?). I had hoped they would have made a much bigger deal out of her return to Winterfell. I love how dense the storyline is but it's a bit easy to get lost.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Where are Brienne and Pod? 
She was talking to a northerner about the Starks and who is in the castle, so they must have been outside of Winterfell?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> Where are Brienne and Pod?
> She was talking to a northerner about the Starks and who is in the castle, so they must have been outside of Winterfell?


I think she was in an inn overlooking Winterfell.

speaking of links between things, I think there is a link between Dragons and Greyscale.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markbox said:


> Also, for some reason I completely missed that Sansa had returned to Winterfell. I thought she was at Moat Cailin (or did they never go to Moat Cailin?). I had hoped they would have made a much bigger deal out of her return to Winterfell. I love how dense the storyline is but it's a bit easy to get lost.


She entered Moat Cailin, then when we next saw her she was in Winterfell. Since they seem to use the same set for both places, it was maybe a little confusing...


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

From someone who's not paying much attention: what happened to Bran and Hodor? I remember some lake, ice creatures erupting, then they go in a tree to see a shaman or something?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> From someone who's not paying much attention: what happened to Bran and Hodor? I remember some lake, ice creatures erupting, then they go in a tree to see a shaman or something?


We don't know. They haven't been in this season.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

markbox said:


> Also, for some reason I completely missed that Sansa had returned to Winterfell. I thought she was at Moat Cailin (or did they never go to Moat Cailin?). I had hoped they would have made a much bigger deal out of her return to Winterfell.


Apparently you also missed the big discussion about that here in the thread from 2 week ago


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> We don't know. They haven't been in this season.





Spoiler



I'm pretty sure it's been widely commented on by the show runners that they will be absent this season


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dianebrat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's been widely commented on by the show runners that they will be absent this season


Yep.


----------



## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Honora said:


> Greyscale could be the Westeros leprosy. Lepra means "scaly" in Latin.


Yeah, but Greyscale was presented as a skin-to-skin contact transmission disease, while Leprosy/Hansen's Disease is a bodily fluid transmission disease.

--Carlos "who's got the Abreva?" V.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Robin said:


> It was a little present for the grammar Nazis.
> 
> Those of us who'd just cringed and said "fewer" after hearing "less" got it instantly.


As a person who can't stand when grammar Nazis need to constantly correct bad grammar, I heard it too and cringed and thought it mildly amusing but really silly.


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> There is no "known" connection between Dragons and White Walkers, but I've always assumed (as have most book readers I'm sure) that, since the whole saga is known as A Song Of Ice And Fire, the denouement will involve a clash between White Walkers (Ice) and Dragons (Fire).


I've always thought the Ice and Fire bit would come down to families, with the Targaryens being the Fire part and likely Jon Snow being the Ice part.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> As a person who can't stand when grammar Nazis need to constantly correct bad grammar, I heard it too and cringed and thought it mildly amusing but really silly.


But I think that was the point... Stannis is THAT kind.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> We don't know. They haven't been in this season.


And I don't think they are going to be in the rest of the episodes this season either. I am pretty sure that story-line is on hold for now.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

nickels said:


> And I don't think they are going to be in the rest of the episodes this season either. I am pretty sure that story-line is on hold for now.


That's what the show runners have said, yes.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

And that's still a spoiler.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Robin said:


> And that's still a spoiler.


No it isn't. There is nothing being spoiled when a storyline isn't being furthered or discussed as to what will happen in the show.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

dianebrat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's been widely commented on by the show runners that they will be absent this season


This is not aimed at you, but I think it is ridiculous that some would call this a spoiler.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Robin said:


> And that's still a spoiler.


Ding!


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Shaunnick said:


> Ding!


I'm confused. You think it's ridiculous that some consider it a spoiler but you agree that it is?

I read that spoiler on Entertainment Weekly's GoT issue.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

I consider it a spoiler. It doesn't bother me to know that, but it's still a spoiler.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

^ this.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

gossamer88 said:


> I'm confused. You think it's ridiculous that some consider it a spoiler but you agree that it is?
> 
> I read that spoiler on Entertainment Weekly's GoT issue.


The ding was because after I posted that, I read a post by someone calling it a spoiler. It was just timely with my reading/posting order of the thread.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Shaunnick said:


> This is not aimed at you, but I think it is ridiculous that some would call this a spoiler.


I agree, and yet by the rules of the board, it most assuredly is.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> I'm confused. You think it's ridiculous that some consider it a spoiler but you agree that it is?
> 
> I read that spoiler on Entertainment Weekly's GoT issue.


What's your point? Are you trying to claim EW never has spoilers?


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> This is not aimed at you, but I think it is ridiculous that some would call this a spoiler.


It's an item that has come from a source that is not seen by viewing of the show, 3rd-party items are best treated as spoilers to be polite to other forum members.

From the sub-forum rules


> Any spoiler information from other sources, such as articles, websites, webisodes, personal friendships with producers, etc., must also be tagged. Spoilers from other shows are to also be tagged


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

> Any spoiler information from other sources, such as articles, websites, webisodes, personal friendships with producers, etc., must also be tagged. Spoilers from other shows are to also be tagged


That doesn't really say what is or isn't a spoiler. For some people the title of the next episode could be considered a spoiler, for others it would not be.

If any information about the show that doesn't come directly from the show is considered a spoiler, then technically saying the next episode airs next Sunday could be considered a spoiler, as ridiculous as that would be. On the flip side, talking about thinks in the "next episode preview" would be considered "okay" since it aired immediately after the show. Normally previews are considered spoilers.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

"Spoiler" is simply shorthand for information gleaned from any source other than the actual show.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

I was unaware people were sitting on the edge of their couch waiting for Bran's story to show up this season.

Alright I'll stop being a dick now. 

The new Tapper Crapper from my giant Note 4


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> "Spoiler" is simply shorthand for information gleaned from any source other than the actual show.


Like I said, based on that definition, the date/time the next episode airs could be considered a spoiler.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Shaunnick said:


> I was unaware people were sitting on the edge of their couch waiting for Bran's story to show up this season.
> 
> Alright I'll stop being a dick now.
> 
> The new Tapper Crapper from my giant Note 4


i was just asking because I didn't remember where we left off. Tree Shaman?


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

morac said:


> Like I said, based on that definition, the date/time the next episode airs could be considered a spoiler.


Why didn't you put


Spoiler



tags around that!


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

morac said:


> On the flip side, talking about thinks in the "next episode preview" would be considered "okay" since it aired immediately after the show. Normally previews are considered spoilers.


 And they are because, in the sentence immediately preceding the one by dianebrat, it says explicitly "Anything shown on the previews of next week is considered a spoiler on this forum, and must be tagged as such, using spoiler tags."


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Robin said:


> What's your point? Are you trying to claim EW never has spoilers?


Was just pointing out that it's been mentioned elsewhere.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

It's been mentioned in threads here, too, and called out as a spoiler then as well.


----------



## markbox (May 3, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> Apparently you also missed the big discussion about that here in the thread from 2 week ago


Indeed I missed that thread (will go visit that thread now).

I went back and rewatched the Sansa portions of the episode from 2+ weeks ago. Littlefinger and Sansa walk up a rise and are looking down on Moat Cailin. Then Sansa's group are shown riding towards Moat Cailin and a wide shot shows Brienne and Pod watching them. Brienne says "I know where they are going". The next scene with Sansa shows gates opening. I assumed those were the gates of Moat Cailin. The added confusion is that the last time I recall seeing the Boltons I thought they were at Moat Cailin.

On first viewing I did not pick up on the various clues that it was in fact Winterfell (Reek being disturbed by the flayed bodies being raised into position where the childrens burned bodies were raised previously, the "welcome home" comment from Roos Bolton to Sansa, and the welcome home from the chamber maid). What was missing for me was a wide shot of Winterfell before the gates were opened to complete Sansa's journey home.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I guess I always assumed the Boltons were in Winterfell; I don't remember exactly why but it seemed clear to me that, in the scene discussing getting lords to pay their taxes, Roose was visiting Ramsay in Winterfell. I don't know why the Boltons would be at Moat Cailin?

So it seemed clear to me, especially considering the previous conversation where she figures out where they're going and Littlefinger convinces her to go along with the marriage, that when Sansa rode into the castle and Reek sees her, it was Winterfell castle.

But I agree an establishing shot would have been nice.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

madscientist said:


> I guess I always assumed the Boltons were in Winterfell; I don't remember exactly why but it seemed clear to me that, in the scene discussing getting lords to pay their taxes, Roose was visiting Ramsay in Winterfell. I don't know why the Boltons would be at Moat Cailin?
> 
> So it seemed clear to me, especially considering the previous conversation where she figures out where they're going and Littlefinger convinces her to go along with the marriage, that when Sansa rode into the castle and Reek sees her, it was Winterfell castle.
> 
> But I agree an establishing shot would have been nice.


I had the same issue the first time I watched it, then re-watched it and it's really clear and I felt kinda stupid for missing it  Helped to have people here point it out of course, but re-watching it and you can clearly tell where they are going and where they are in the scenes at WF.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

madscientist said:


> But I agree an establishing shot would have been nice.


Especially since they DID have an establishing shot for Moat Cailin, and then magically they were at Winterfell.


----------



## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

shaunnick said:


> i was unaware people were sitting on the edge of their couch waiting for bran's story to show up this season.


Hodor!


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

'Game of Thrones' Season 5, Episode 5 recapped almost entirely in f words.

Let's state the obvious... NSFW!

http://valarbloghulis.someecards.co...e-5-recapped-almost-entirely-using-the-fword/


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I thought it was interesting that with Ser Barrister gone and Grey worm injured, Dany's guards became Second Sons, not Unsullied.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

astrohip said:


> 'Game of Thrones' Season 5, Episode 5 recapped almost entirely in f words.
> 
> Let's state the obvious... NSFW!
> 
> http://valarbloghulis.someecards.co...e-5-recapped-almost-entirely-using-the-fword/


they missed a great chance to show Hodor saying Hodor!


----------



## markbox (May 3, 2004)

madscientist said:


> I guess I always assumed the Boltons were in Winterfell; I don't remember exactly why but it seemed clear to me that, in the scene discussing getting lords to pay their taxes, Roose was visiting Ramsay in Winterfell. I don't know why the Boltons would be at Moat Cailin?


In a prior episode Roose sent Ramsey to take Moat Cailin. There was a scene filmed in the hills near Moat Cailin (I think) where Roose informed Ramsey that he was now a Bolton (and heir to the Bolton name) as a reward for taking Moat Cailin. I have not gone back to confirm all this but it is why I thought the Bolton's were at Moat Cailin.



madscientist said:


> So it seemed clear to me, especially considering the previous conversation where she figures out where they're going and Littlefinger convinces her to go along with the marriage, that when Sansa rode into the castle and Reek sees her, it was Winterfell castle.
> 
> But I agree an establishing shot would have been nice.


It would have also helped to either show the Bolton's arriving at Winterfell after taking Moat Cailin or them discussing that they were now going to Winterfell. The scene in the courtyard when Sansa arrived did not look to me like the Winterfell I remember from Season 1. The courtyard seemed much bigger in Season 1. Then again, Winterfell did burn so I suppose that could explain it. The scene with Sansa replacing the candles in the crypt and showing the statue of Lady Lyanna caused me to think to myself, "why would Lady Lyanna be buried in the crypt at Moat Cailin?". That's the moment I realized they must actually be at Winterfell.

Now, back to this weeks episode...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I think in the scene in question, Bolton mentions that they are going home to Winterfell...I could be wrong.

I've been meaning to mention that the actor playing Ollie is really terrible. Totally ruined a could-have-been powerful scene between him and Lord Commander Snow.

Also, loved Tyrion's comment (don't have the words exactly) "long, sullen, silence followed by an occasional punch in the face...the Mormont way!"


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

IMO a spoiler should actually spoil something like the name implies. Letting you know that a story line is on hold doesn't give away anything about where it is going when it returns. It has been mentioned in many mainstream articles about the show to where I felt it was almost common knowledge. It feels like another one of those topics that you have to go out of your way to find a problem with it, but I am not surprised it is now an issue.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

nickels said:


> IMO a spoiler should actually spoil something like the name implies. Letting you know that a story line is on hold doesn't give away anything about where it is going when it returns. It has been mentioned in many mainstream articles about the show to where I felt it was almost common knowledge. It feels like another one of those topics that you have to go out of your way to find a problem with it, but I am not surprised it is now an issue.


It's not an issue.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

nickels said:


> IMO a spoiler should actually spoil something like the name implies. Letting you know that a story line is on hold doesn't give away anything about where it is going when it returns. It has been mentioned in many mainstream articles about the show to where I felt it was almost common knowledge. It feels like another one of those topics that you have to go out of your way to find a problem with it, but I am not surprised it is now an issue.


Awesome that you think I'm a liar.

I would not have known were it not for our being mentioned in two threads here, against the forum rules.

I don't read articles about the show because I try to avoid spoilers.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

We did see Winterfell burned even in the opening. It's now merely a flesh wound.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

MikeAndrews said:


> We did see Winterfell burned even in the opening. It's now merely a flesh wound.


I remember after WF burned that they changed the opening sequence to show that - always thought the GoT opening sequence was one of the cooler / innovative things it is doing.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Robin said:


> Awesome that you think I'm a liar. I would not have known were it not for our being mentioned in two threads here, against the forum rules. I don't read articles about the show because I try to avoid spoilers.


Sorry. But I'm tired of this.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> We did see Winterfell burned even in the opening. It's now merely a flesh wound.


Well, we have seen people working to rebuild Winterfell in the last couple of episodes.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Sorry. But I'm tired of this.


You're tired of someone pointing out that they were spoiled because someone else didn't follow the appropriate spoiler rules of this forum? I don't see the issue there, Robin is in the right on this.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

pjenkins said:


> I remember after WF burned that they changed the opening sequence to show that - always thought the GoT opening sequence was one of the cooler / innovative things it is doing.


Then you really REALLY *REALLY *need to read this article:

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wa...s-map-always-match-up-with-where-the-story-is


> Among the many delights of the "Game of Thrones" viewing experience is seeing which locations appear on the opening credits map in any given week. But sometimes, I wind up wondering what the logic is for certain decisions about the map, like some weeks we see locations that don't actually appear in that episode, while locales where several characters are present (and that have appeared on the map before) aren't featured.
> 
> For instance, tonight's episode, "Sons of the Harpy" (I reviewed it here) featured our first new map location of season 5, the southern Westeros kingdom of Dorne, even though Dorne had first appeared on the show two episodes early. And the Eyrie appeared in the credits of several early episodes, even though no characters have been there this season, while it didn't appear at all late last year when Sansa and Littlefinger were living there.
> 
> Earlier this week, I got on the phone with "GoT" producer Greg Spence to talk about the various logistical and creative reasons for why some locations appear in some weeks, and some don't. Here's what you need to know:


Read the rest at the link...


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

astrohip said:


> Then you really REALLY *REALLY *need to read this article:
> .


that was great, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

dianebrat said:


> You're tired of someone pointing out that they were spoiled because someone else didn't follow the appropriate spoiler rules of this forum? I don't see the issue there, Robin is in the right on this.


Life would be so easy if people would just say "sorry", edit their post to put spoiler tags, and move on.

So it's 2 weeks from Castle Black to Winterfell. Stannis started his march. Jon and the big redhead guy (sorry, don't remember his name... Tormond?) are 9 days away from where the Wildlings are gathered. They will take the ships back (why not take the ships there?); which will save some time but will put them down on the shore about a week away from Castle Black (looked at a map).

So Jon's reinforcement is at best a month away and probably closer to 6 weeks away from helping Stannis.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

markbox said:


> It would have also helped to either show the Bolton's arriving at Winterfell





















Perhaps one might not recognize that as Winterfell, but it is most clearly NOT Moat Cailin

You are welcome 

Edit: and just for comparison, here's Moat Cailin


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Jon Snow did get burned, but (if the theory holds true) he is half-Stark. Daenerys and her siblings are "pure-bred" products of Targaryen incest, so that might give them the fire immunity. Although Viserys was killed by his crown of gold, so who knows...

I noticed in the opening credits that Lena H and Nicolas C-W were not even shown, although Kings Landing was. It's the first time I'd noticed lead actors being left out of the credits, even if they didn't have a scene in the episode.

Did not see that move coming from Dany. Will she keep Daario as a lover too?

The Grey Worm-Missendei romance falls really flat. In fact, the Unsullied have been a real let-down this season. Are the writers trying to say that the Unsullied are much better fighters as property, and have fallen into disarray as freed men...er, eunuchs?


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

Robin said:


> Awesome that you think I'm a liar.
> 
> I would not have known were it not for our being mentioned in two threads here, against the forum rules.
> 
> I don't read articles about the show because I try to avoid spoilers.


I never called you a liar. I said that saying a storyline is on hold for a season isn't a spoiler IMO. Sorry if I ruined anything, although I can't for the life of me figure out what that is...


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

MacThor said:


> In fact, the Unsullied have been a real let-down this season. Are the writers trying to say that the Unsullied are much better fighters as property, and have fallen into disarray as freed men...er, eunuchs?


they've always been eunuchs, but just recently freed men.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pjenkins said:


> they've always been eunuchs, but just recently freed men.


Apparently, to him "man" is defined a little differently than for you...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Apparently, to him "man" is defined a little differently than for you...


/Ramsey

well..."person" anyway

/end Ramsey


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

nickels said:


> Sorry if I ruined anything, although I can't for the life of me figure out what that is...


Example: we know Jon is heading north. One could have wondered if he might bump into Bran in the process. However, if you know that Bran won't be showing up this season, and most likely Jon's trip won't outlast this season, you can now conclude that won't happen.

Knowing it doesn't tell you what happened, but it tells you some things that won't happen. Someone could have built an elaborate theory in their head, and it now just came crashing down. That can ruin some of the suspense.

It's most considerate to not talk about anything that hasn't actually happened yet, unless you are merely posting uninformed speculation.

Last weeks thread got sort of iffy too, with a lot of unspoilered backstory discussion, some of which I felt might possibly be based partially on info we don't yet have in the tv show (I don't know that for a fact...just speculating). The discussion seemed to be walking a fine line, and I almost called it out, out of respect for other.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

pjenkins said:


> they've always been eunuchs, but just recently freed men.


I don't think they are eunuchs. I think they've just had the wrong equipment removed so they still desire women, they just can't do anything about it.


----------



## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

So, about the unsullied... are they missing both the pork and beans or just the beans?


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Pork? You mean frank? Just the frank, I believe.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

nickels said:


> I never called you a liar. I said that saying a storyline is on hold for a season isn't a spoiler IMO. Sorry if I ruined anything, although I can't for the life of me figure out what that is...


Ok, thanks, sorry. I thought you were saying I was calling it a spoiler just to be difficult, but that I didn't really feel something had been "spoiled" for me. I do. I would have preferred not to know that piece of information (not including it again in case it eventually ends up in spoiler tags). It's not keeping me up at night, and it's not like learning Rosebud


Spoiler



is the sled


 when sitting down to watch Citizen Kane (and yes, that happened to me too!) but I spend a lot of time pondering what's going to happen and I like to keep my options open.



LordKronos said:


> Example: we know Jon is heading north. One could have wondered if he might bump into Bran in the process. However, if you know that Bran won't be showing up this season, and most likely Jon's trip won't outlast this season, you can now conclude that won't happen.
> 
> Knowing it doesn't tell you what happened, but it tells you some things that won't happen. Someone could have built an elaborate theory in their head, and it now just came crashing down. That can ruin some of the suspense.


Exactly.



TonyD79 said:


> Sorry. But I'm tired of this.


No one more so than I.



astrohip said:


> Then you really REALLY *REALLY *need to read this article:
> 
> http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wa...s-map-always-match-up-with-where-the-story-is
> 
> Read the rest at the link...


That is a terrific article.

Crazy to think it could have been a different opening. Logically of course it could, but emotionally there's no way it could be anything else.

Also just reading the article has given me an earworm of the theme song.

I marvel every week at the money that must have gone into that intro and how it compares to other shows, past and present.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

pjenkins said:


> Definitely Drogon. And Greyscale, well better to just quote the Wiki


Should that be spoilered? After all we don't all know what Greyscale does.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Pork? You mean frank? Just the frank, I believe.


This. Otherwise maintaining those physiques and aggression would be near impossible.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Pork? You mean frank? Just the frank, I believe.


No, they are pruned both berries and twig.


----------



## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Stormspace said:


> Should that be spoilered? After all we don't all know what Greyscale does.


Sure we do, Stannis even said so


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

pjenkins said:


> Sure we do, Stannis even said so


I thought he said "Fewer".


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> I don't think they are eunuchs. I think they've just had the wrong equipment removed so they still desire women, they just can't do anything about it.


They're suggesting that the unsullied can like to lie and cuddle ever if they don't have the plumbing to go further.

"What could he find a brothel?"
Grey Worm: "I do not know."


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> They're suggesting that the unsullied can like to lie and cuddle ever if they don't have the plumbing to go further.
> 
> "What could he find a brothel?"
> Grey Worm: "I do not know."


Didn't we see one of the Unsullied having a woman wash his hair and sing to him like his mother?


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

JYoung said:


> I thought he said "Fewer".


He said "gaunt".


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

MikeAndrews said:


> They're suggesting that the unsullied can like to lie and cuddle ever if they don't have the plumbing to go further.
> 
> "What could he find a brothel?"
> Grey Worm: "I do not know."


While it is a FANTASY show, a man without all his equipment can't maintain the muscle tone these guys have. They put on weight and look soft even if they are not. See Varys.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> While it is a FANTASY show, a man without all his equipment can't maintain the muscle tone these guys have. They put on weight and look soft even if they are not. See Varys.


even if what is cut off is just the frank, not the beans?

Isn't it essentially then a matter of making a man have a significantly smaller frank? the frank doesn't produce anything...


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Anubys said:


> even if what is cut off is just the frank, not the beans?


That's not how it's done. The reverse, yes. Both, yes, but not that way.

And the unsullied are not muscle-bound pit fighters. Their strength is discipline, fearlessness, and numbers. Individually they are nothing special.


----------



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Legs crossed.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> That's not how it's done. The reverse, yes. Both, yes, but not that way.
> 
> And the unsullied are not muscle-bound pit fighters. Their strength is discipline, fearlessness, and numbers. Individually they are nothing special.


Well, we don't really know. Dany and Messandei wondered about it; hopefully, Messandei will provide an answer for us soon.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> While it is a FANTASY show, a man without all his equipment can't maintain the muscle tone these guys have. They put on weight and look soft even if they are not. See Varys.


Huh? What exactly do you base that on? Are you saying female bodybuilders actually have "his" equipment? Because they have a HELL of a lot of muscle tone, and look NOTHING like Varys.


----------



## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

LordKronos said:


> Huh? What exactly do you base that on? Are you saying female bodybuilders actually have "his" equipment? Because they have a HELL of a lot of muscle tone, and look NOTHING like Varys.


...and tons of anabolic steroids


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> Huh? What exactly do you base that on? Are you saying female bodybuilders actually have "his" equipment? Because they have a HELL of a lot of muscle tone, and look NOTHING like Varys.


Google Castration and see what the medical implications are. We aren't talking about a women with all her parts, but a man without all of his.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> That's not how it's done. The reverse, yes. Both, yes, but not that way.
> 
> And the unsullied are not muscle-bound pit fighters. Their strength is discipline, fearlessness, and numbers. Individually they are nothing special.


They also aren't castrated based on their physiques. Penectomy I think it's called. Of course none of this rules out some Fantasy herb or process that neuters them without all the side effects of an actual castration.


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Anubys said:


> Well, we don't really know. Dany and Messandei wondered about it; hopefully, Messandei will provide an answer for us soon.


Sources external to the show say this:



Spoiler



Both testicles and penis are removed from The Unsullied.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

pendragn said:


> Sources external to the show say this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



If that's the case then the show isn't accurately showing the unsullied. I can only attribute it to the author not actually knowing the effects of doing that to a man really are.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> While it is a FANTASY show, a man without all his equipment can't maintain the muscle tone these guys have. They put on weight and look soft even if they are not. See Varys.


A boy who has his beans removed never gets a deep voice.


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I assume you are aware that they didn't actually castrate the actors so they could perform these roles, right? You are just going to have to live with that reality.


----------



## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

Does rosebud have some significance in Citizen Kane? I've never seen it before.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Ereth said:


> I assume you are aware that they didn't actually castrate the actors so they could perform these roles, right? You are just going to have to live with that reality.





Spoiler



It's a simple matter to change the frequency of the voice. Again, I think it's just ignorance on the part of the author. He got Varys right, but the unsullied are completely wrong.

Another interesting fact. Castrated males don't get male pattern baldness. They can't grow back lost hair, but they don't loose any more if they are done up before acquiring that trait.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

goblue97 said:


> Does rosebud have some significance in Citizen Kane? I've never seen it before.


I've never seen the movie, but I read a plot summary and it sounds like trying to track down rosebud is the entire premise of the movie. Knowing it would probably ruin it quite a bit.


----------



## bobino (Jul 24, 2002)

pjenkins said:


> that was great, thanks for sharing!


Yes, it's interesting. It didn't answer a question of mine.

Why does the animation show "Dorne" instead of "Sunspear"?

Dorne is the region, Sunspear is the capital. All other locations are identified with the name of the city. Dorne is the only one identified by the name of the region.

-Bob


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

bobino said:


> Yes, it's interesting. It didn't answer a question of mine.
> 
> Why does the animation show "Dorne" instead of "Sunspear"?
> 
> ...


If I had to guess, it's because they refer to the city as Dorne...Heck, I don't even recall hearing the name Sunspear, but I certainly heard of Dorn.

If you go to Egypt, no Egyptian calls Cairo "Cairo", they call the city Egypt! so it's not without precendent in my world.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> If I had to guess, it's because they refer to the city as Dorne...Heck, I don't even recall hearing the name Sunspear, but I certainly heard of Dorn.


I'm not sure if the name came up last season with Oberyn or not. I definitely knew the name, but I might just have picked it up form looking at the map. But this season it definitely came up in episode 1, when Loras and his lover were talking about the birthmark that was shaped like Dorne.

Edit: just did a closed caption search of the whole series

S4 E1 - When oberyn first arrives: "The prince's health forces him to remain at Sunspear."
S4 E5 - Whey oberyn is talking to cercei about getting that ship to myrcella: "I will have it sailed down to Sunspear for her."


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

bobino said:


> Yes, it's interesting. It didn't answer a question of mine.
> 
> Why does the animation show "Dorne" instead of "Sunspear"?
> 
> ...


They aren't in Sunspear, they're in Water Garden.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Anubys said:


> If I had to guess, it's because they refer to the city as Dorne...Heck, I don't even recall hearing the name Sunspear, but I certainly heard of Dorn.
> 
> If you go to Egypt, no Egyptian calls Cairo "Cairo", they call the city Egypt! so it's not without precendent in my world.


I never knew that. Interesting!


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> A boy who has his beans removed never gets a deep voice.


And yet there are dragons and white walkers and blackish ghosty things. So, science and biology must be the same, right?


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> And yet there are dragons and white walkers and blackish ghosty things. So, science and biology must be the same, right?


Hey. Yo. If we can't discuss the lack of reality in fantasy and comic books then what?


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> If that's the case then the show isn't accurately showing the unsullied. I can only attribute it to the author not actually knowing the effects of doing that to a man really are.


This is in the category of "Get over it". The cost to deal with whatever effects you (and only you) care about are costs the show doesn't need to bear. I'd rather they spent that money on dragons than worrying about the vocal tones of the Unsullied.

I'm curious, though, how did you become the worlds foremost expert on this practice?


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Ereth said:


> This is in the category of "Get over it". The cost to deal with whatever effects you (and only you) care about are costs the show doesn't need to bear. I'd rather they spent that money on dragons than worrying about the vocal tones of the Unsullied.
> 
> I'm curious, though, how did you become the worlds foremost expert on this practice?


Not an expert. I know how to google, don't you? I can't be an expert on everything like you, I have to look things up.


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

Ereth said:


> This is in the category of "Get over it". The cost to deal with whatever effects you (and only you) care about are costs the show doesn't need to bear. I'd rather they spent that money on dragons than worrying about the vocal tones of the Unsullied.


I agree. Heck the show is obviously very cost conscious. Sometimes they'll have entire scenes where they didn't even bother to buy clothes for half the cast! 

Wait now that I think about it, maybe they should spend more money on Unsullied voices if they'd have to cut the costume money even more...


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> Hey. Yo. If we can't discuss the lack of reality in fantasy and cmic books then what?




Not sure anymore.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Edit: just did a closed caption search of the whole series
> 
> S4 E1 - When oberyn first arrives: "The prince's health forces him to remain at Sunspear."
> S4 E5 - Whey oberyn is talking to cercei about getting that ship to myrcella: "I will have it sailed down to Sunspear for her."


I'd been wondering how you find episode references so fast.


----------

