# 20.2.2.1 now available



## TiVoMargret

Hi Community,

We have made a few bug fixes to our 20.2.2 update, and are now making 20.2.2.1 available via the Priority List. (http://tivo.com/priority)

Here are some of the issues that have been resolved:

* Customers in Pittsburg were hearing Spanish instead of English on their ABC channel (WTAE). This issue also affected a limited number of other networks and shows and resulted in customers hearing "Audio Description" audio. It should now be resolved for all.

* Channel Logos have been restored in the Guide

* Some customers were hearing sound effects when pressing CHAN UP/DOWN in live TV. These actions should now be silent.

--Margret


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## slowbiscuit

Thanks for providing some of the bugfixes in the change log, this should be done routinely for every update. We shouldn't have to guess what was fixed and what might still be an issue.

How long does priority list reg last? I.e., if you do it for fall update 20.2.2, do you have to reg again for this one?


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## TiVoMargret

Yes, you need to re-register on the priority list to get 20.2.2.1.


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## compnurd

Any idea of how long it will be ready after registering? would like to get this before modern family tonight


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## Kingpcgeek

How about making the forms on tivo.com cut and paste friendly? Why can one not simply copy their TSN from the My account page and paste it into the priority page? Instead we have 4 different boxes to which we have to manually type the number.

The same goes problem when your are checking to see if you are eligible for a special offer, the TSN form field assumes there are no dashes in the TSN so it strips off the last three digits when pasted in the form field.

Come on TiVo, that number is what everything revolves around, use it consistently.


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## jrtroo

It's not that hard to type in 4 fields. Plus it is only used 1-2x per yer. I would much rather they work on other things.


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## compnurd

Yeh really we are talking 4 fields here


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## Drewster

Registered!

Is it here yet?


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## Kingpcgeek

jrtroo said:


> It's not that hard to type in 4 fields. Plus it is only used 1-2x per yer. I would much rather they work on other things.


Sorry part of my job responsibility is working on web usability and things like that really bother me. I also appreciate when people that use my web sites point out issues that I did not find. The end user is the ultimate tester.

Besides if you think think their web programmers are the same people as the people improving the TiVo interface then you are greatly mistaken. Fixing one does not mean a delay in another.


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## reneg

jrtroo said:


> It's not that hard to type in 4 fields. Plus it is only used 1-2x per yer. I would much rather they work on other things.


Getting consistency and simplicity for users across it's web presence is not asking a lot.


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## mrizzo80

I think the easiest way to handle signing up for the Priority List would be for them to just add a button to the grid on the My Account page on TiVo.com next to each individual registered TiVo. No need for a separate web page -- just click a button for each Premiere you want to get the early release software.

Or maybe they like keeping the signup "hidden" so only the enthusiasts know it exists?


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## crxssi

mrizzo80 said:


> Or maybe they like keeping the signup "hidden" so only the enthusiasts know it exists?


I suspect they want to keep this limited mostly to enthusiasts.


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## PedjaR

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi Community,
> 
> We have made a few bug fixes to our 20.2.2 update, and are now making 20.2.2.1 available via the Priority List. (http://tivo.com/priority)
> ...


I am still on 20.2.1. Do I first have to get 20.2.2, or can I jump straight to 20.2.2.1?


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## bdspilot

When will 20.2.2.1 be out for everyone without being on priority list.


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## TiVoMargret

PedjaR said:


> I am still on 20.2.1. Do I first have to get 20.2.2, or can I jump straight to 20.2.2.1?


You can jump directly from 20.2.1.2 to 20.2.2.1.


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## TiVoMargret

bdspilot said:


> When will 20.2.2.1 be out for everyone without being on priority list.


Most likely by the end of next week.


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## mattack

Lots of other web pages (and software registration dialogs) do copy/paste properly for things like serial #s.. tivo should too.

BTW, problems in the previous update (maybe I'll email them too):
1) you can't use channel up/down to move between items (e.g. program details when in a folder, or browsing the guide, or to do list), like you can in SD UI. This is pretty much enough to make me move back to SD UI.
2) when you choose another recording from View Upcoming, IT DOES NOT APPLY YOUR SEASON PASS SETTINGS (e.g. padding), so you MISS PART OF THE RECORDING. This works fine in SD UI.


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## cherry ghost

mattack said:


> 2) when you choose another recording from View Upcoming, IT DOES NOT APPLY YOUR SEASON PASS SETTINGS (e.g. padding), so you MISS PART OF THE RECORDING. This works fine in SD UI.


This is one I'd like to see fixed.


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## moyekj

mattack said:


> BTW, problems in the previous update (maybe I'll email them too):
> 1) you can't use channel up/down to move between items (e.g. program details when in a folder, or browsing the guide, or to do list), like you can in SD UI. This is pretty much enough to make me move back to SD UI.


 This has been a problem from day 1 with the HDUI and I don't understand why it has not been a priority to fix.


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## todd_j_derr

TiVoMargret said:


> Customers in Pittsburg were hearing Spanish instead of English on their ABC channel (WTAE). This issue also affected a limited number of other networks and shows and resulted in customers hearing "Audio Description" audio. It should now be resolved for all.


Wow - was this really only in Pittsburg*h*? I'm extremely happy this is being fixed, although I had a really bad support experience trying to report the problem (cases 121127-015207 and 121107-015853.) I'm glad that despite what the reps did that it apparently percolated up to someone who recognized it was an actual problem and fixed it.

See also this thread. (edit: some reports on that thread appear to be outside of Pittsburgh, so it appears to be a wider-spread problem).


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## unitron

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi Community,
> 
> We have made a few bug fixes to our 20.2.2 update, and are now making 20.2.2.1 available via the Priority List. (http://tivo.com/priority)
> 
> Here are some of the issues that have been resolved:
> 
> * Customers in Pittsburg were hearing Spanish instead of English on their ABC channel (WTAE). This issue also affected a limited number of other networks and shows and resulted in customers hearing "Audio Description" audio. It should now be resolved for all.
> 
> * Channel Logos have been restored in the Guide
> 
> * Some customers were hearing sound effects when pressing CHAN UP/DOWN in live TV. These actions should now be silent.
> 
> --Margret


If it was just the one affiliate in the one market, what was WTAE doing wrong, and did it affect anything other than TiVos, and which model TiVos did it affect?


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## unitron

Kingpcgeek said:


> Sorry part of my job responsibility is working on web usability and things like that really bother me. I also appreciate when people that use my web sites point out issues that I did not find. The end user is the ultimate tester.


Part of my existance is using the web and things like that really bother me, especially if I'm ultimately the one paying for it.



Kingpcgeek said:


> Besides if you think think their web programmers are the same people as the people improving the TiVo interface then you are greatly mistaken. Fixing one does not mean a delay in another.


Let's hope the same small group of people don't have to handle both chores.


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## compnurd

Ok.. It does not appear to be out yet. Registered yesterday after seeing this and no download yet


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## jcthorne

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi Community,
> 
> We have made a few bug fixes to our 20.2.2 update, and are now making 20.2.2.1 available via the Priority List. (http://tivo.com/priority)
> 
> Here are some of the issues that have been resolved:
> 
> * Customers in Pittsburg were hearing Spanish instead of English on their ABC channel (WTAE). This issue also affected a limited number of other networks and shows and resulted in customers hearing "Audio Description" audio. It should now be resolved for all.
> 
> * Channel Logos have been restored in the Guide
> 
> * Some customers were hearing sound effects when pressing CHAN UP/DOWN in live TV. These actions should now be silent.
> 
> --Margret


Thanks for the information and the update! Really appreciate your letting us know. Signed up both of my units.


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## johnccronk

Will this be a quick patch install or another hour long install as 20.2.2 was?


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## compnurd

johnccronk said:


> Will this be a quick patch install or another hour long install as 20.2.2 was?


Since no one has it yet.. we dont know


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## muzzymate

TiVoMargret said:


> * Customers in Pittsburg were hearing Spanish instead of English on their ABC channel (WTAE). This issue also affected a limited number of other networks and shows and resulted in customers hearing "Audio Description" audio. It should now be resolved for all.





unitron said:


> If it was just the one affiliate in the one market, what was WTAE doing wrong, and did it affect anything other than TiVos, and which model TiVos did it affect?


I can report this was happening occasionally on Fox broadcasts (WJW) for the show Bones in Cleveland (hearing the "Audio Description" audio) OTA on my Premiere. Just thought it was a problem with WJW mixing up their audio sources. My wife thought she was going crazy at first! Didn't associate it with the software update. Looking forward to getting back to normal audio all the time!


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## TZR916

mattack said:


> 1) you can't use channel up/down to move between items (e.g. program details when in a folder, or browsing the guide, or to do list), like you can in SD UI. This is pretty much enough to make me move back to SD UI.


Never been a problem on my Elite HDUI. Works as page up/down.


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## CoxInPHX

TZR916 said:


> Never been a problem on my Elite HDUI. Works as page up/down.


I wondered about this too, as it works for Pageup/Pagedown.

But switch to the SDUI
Go to a My Shows folder with more than one show (the more the better)
Select the first show
Then use the Pageup/Pagedown and you will see it moves from on show to another within that one folder.


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## mr_smits

Kingpcgeek said:


> How about making the forms on tivo.com cut and paste friendly?


Yes, please.


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## abqdan

As a web designer, it bugs me too. Similarly, the instance on a particular format for a number (like when you see a box that says "do not enter dashes or spaces". A decent programmer would deal with the most obvious formats for a number - forcing the use of separate boxes is lazy programming. Tivo controls the number format, so it's reasonable for them to make it consistent across the website. Doesn't matter if you have to do it once or a hundred times. I've had this problem at various points on the Tivo site - their web design needs some review on consistency.


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## TiVoMargret

johnccronk said:


> Will this be a quick patch install or another hour long install as 20.2.2 was?


If you are still running 20.2.1.2, then going to 20.2.2.1 will be an hour or so.

If you are running 20.2.2 already, then going to 20.2.2.1 should be less than a half hour.

(You actually already have 20.2.2.1. You were on the priority list when we switched over to the new version.)

One of these days we'll have a release with a number other than 0, 1, or 2 in it!

--Margret


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## zubinh

Thank you Margret for improving the TiVo experience. I'm loving my XL4 and Tivo Stream. Now just get me a faster HDUI and a TiVo Mini and I'll never complain again!


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## aaronwt

this is weird. I entered one Elite TSN and it took it. But my other Elite and my Preimere it says those TSNs were alread entered.


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## compnurd

TiVoMargret said:


> If you are still running 20.2.1.2, then going to 20.2.2.1 will be an hour or so.
> 
> If you are running 20.2.2 already, then going to 20.2.2.1 should be less than a half hour.
> 
> (You actually already have 20.2.2.1. You were on the priority list when we switched over to the new version.)
> 
> One of these days we'll have a release with a number other than 0, 1, or 2 in it!
> 
> --Margret


Any idea when this is going to roll out? Re-registered on the list yesterday


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## Balzer

I registered both my Premieres yesterday afternoon. The "Alpha" said "Pending Restart" when I arrived home from work last night. I rebooted it to install the update, but stepped away so don't know how long the update took to install. It now has 20.2.2.1.
The "Bravo" has not received the update as of last night, even after a couple of manual connections. Will check it again tonight.
I had 20.2.2 already installed on both machines.


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## berkshires

MRV between Premiere XL and TiVo HD

I received notice of the update yesterday and it is 20.2.2.1

From the XL, looking at recordings on my TiVo HDs, the keep until icons are all wrong. Also looking from an HD to the XL the KUID icon doesn't show up - which is something that existed before the update.

What can you tell me about these problems?

Thank you.


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## compnurd

just for the update WOOHOO WTAE now says English!


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## lessd

aaronwt said:


> this is weird. I entered one Elite TSN and it took it. But my other Elite and my Preimere it says those TSNs were alread entered.


I once told TiVo that they should update all TiVos on a single account at the same time, this may be the start of TiVo doing that as I had the same issue you did, the first TP went in, the rest said they were already entered.


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## Test

Margret, will this fix the problem I've been having trying to get HD screens for MRS on premieres?


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## mattack

TZR916 said:


> Never been a problem on my Elite HDUI. Works as page up/down.


Page up/down is DIFFERENT. That is in a list, and works fine.

I am talking about e.g.:
1) To do list
2) "enter" a show
3) hit channel down
-> in SD UI, you GO TO THE DETAILS OF THE NEXT SHOW IN THE TO DO LIST.
It basically saves a lot of "left out, then down, then right in" steps.

In HD UI on Premiere 4 at least, it does not work.

(The same analogous thing works in the program details in an item in a specific folder in Now Playing, in View Upcoming, etc.. None of them work in HD UI on Premiere 4 at least. They all work [in SD UI] on my Tivo HD, and I'm almost positive, in SD UI on Premiere 4.)


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## TiVoMargret

Test said:


> Margret, will this fix the problem I've been having trying to get HD screens for MRS on premieres?


Sorry, no. I expect our first release in 2013 to fix this issue for the small number of customers that are experiencing it.

--Margret


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## mrschimpf

Will this also fix the lack of vidcast folder grouping and 36-hour broadband video timeline problems I had on the last update?


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## beejay

Kingpcgeek said:


> How about making the forms on tivo.com cut and paste friendly? Why can one not simply copy their TSN from the My account page and paste it into the priority page? Instead we have 4 different boxes to which we have to manually type the number.
> 
> The same goes problem when your are checking to see if you are eligible for a special offer, the TSN form field assumes there are no dashes in the TSN so it strips off the last three digits when pasted in the form field.
> 
> Come on TiVo, that number is what everything revolves around, use it consistently.


Yeah, only 4 fields...but why not make it easier to enter.

I support this request.


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## sharkster

My bdrm Tivo was in 'pending restart' when I went to bed last night and it updated during the night.

Living Rm Tivo still hasn't gone into 'pending' status but I'm sure it will today. They are never more than a day apart on updates.

I don't yet know what, applicable to me, has changed - but Thanks Margret!


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## Test

TiVoMargret said:


> Sorry, no. I expect our first release in 2013 to fix this issue for the small number of customers that are experiencing it.
> 
> --Margret


I saw a post about beta testers needed. Is that what's being tested? Can I still sign up?


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## TiVoMargret

mrschimpf said:


> Will this also fix the lack of vidcast folder grouping and 36-hour broadband video timeline problems I had on the last update?


There have been some improvements in the way we handle groups in My Shows for certain kinds of content. (Some of the improvements may only apply to those upgrading directly from 20.2.1.2 to 20.2.2.1.)

I'm not sure what you mean by "36-hour broadband video timeline problems".

--Margret


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## beejay

TiVoMargret said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "36-hour broadband video timeline problems".
> 
> --Margret


Let me guess since I've noticed an error that fits that description.

I subscribe to a weather channel download that is normally less than a minute long. The displayed length of the bar at the bottom is 36 hours long in that case. (New behavior.)


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## BHyde

Tried to use the priority request, but it said my device was already registered. I thought you said we needed to sign up again.


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## sharkster

BHyde said:


> Tried to use the priority request, but it said my device was already registered. I thought you said we needed to sign up again.


Sometimes that happens to me, with one of my Tivos, but I always end up getting the updates quickly, so it should be ok. Must be some kind of glitch. I'll go to register mine and one will go through, and the other one will say already registered. But they will both get the updates quickly.

I'm surprised that the big update took an hour for some people. On both of my Tivos it took just shy of half an hour. On this smaller update it took less than 15 minutes.


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## TZR916

mattack said:


> ...I am talking about e.g.:
> 1) To do list
> 2) "enter" a show
> 3) hit channel down
> -> in SD UI, you GO TO THE DETAILS OF THE NEXT SHOW IN THE TO DO LIST.
> It basically saves a lot of "left out, then down, then right in" steps.
> 
> In HD UI on Premiere 4 at least, it does not work.
> 
> (The same analogous thing works in the program details in an item in a specific folder in Now Playing, in View Upcoming, etc..


To Do List- something I would never think of using.

Show's Details > More Options > View Upcoming > Upcoming Episodes list > page up/down works fine.


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## berkshires

I'm finding another bug with this update. Attempting to transfer a recording from the paused point from a Premiere to a TiVoHD fails plus the TiVoHD continues to have the blue light on and queue any other transfer attempts while not transferring anything. One or both of the DVRs must be restarted to clear the problem.

BTW - where is the Restart DVR in the HDUI menus?


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## Arcady

berkshires said:


> BTW - where is the Restart DVR in the HDUI menus?


Settings & Messages -> Help -> Restart or Reset

This brings you to the old SDUI restart/reset page


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## saeba

I received the new update on both my Premieres (XL and XL4) last night so I was curious if it fixed my issue with multi-room streaming (getting V87 errors randomly stopping playback). Unfortunately, these still continue. 

Both TiVos are using static IP addresses and I have a high-speed wireless-AC bridge between them, so network bandwidth should not be an issue.

And by the way.... Tivo.com has not detail on what the V87 error code means or what action to take.


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## mrizzo80

Add me to the list of people getting v87 errors; got my first one yesterday.


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## moyekj

As soon as wireless is in the picture all bets are off when it comes to video streaming. Yes for some people it can work fine, but 1st step in debugging networking issues is take wireless out of the picture completely. I don't think TiVo supports MRS with wireless setup and I don't blame them if that is indeed the case. MRS uses virtually no video buffer at all so even instantaneous glitches common to wireless networking will cause problems.


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## andyf

I use MRS wirelessly with no problem. In fact since my cablecard got de-authorized when I changed the HD, I've been recording all my premium channels on a system whose cablecard is authorized and stream the shows to my main TiVo.

I do understand moyekj's point though, I doubt TiVo would provide any support for a wireless connection.


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## dreezer

Does this fix the audio sync issue I'm experiencing since doing the 20.2.2 update? Info about my issue, regular premier box (std def. no cable cards), whenever I switch to a new channel, play a recording, use ff or rewind, after a few minutes the sound will be out of sync with the video feed. Someone suggested to switch rom Dolby to PCM, but no change. If this patch doesn't fix it, is this at least a known issue being looked at?


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## saeba

andyf said:


> I use MRS wirelessly with no problem. In fact since my cablecard got de-authorized when I changed the HD, I've been recording all my premium channels on a system whose cablecard is authorized and stream the shows to my main TiVo.
> 
> I do understand moyekj's point though, I doubt TiVo would provide any support for a wireless connection.


If you contact TiVo support, they do say they only support MRS with TiVo's wired directly to a router. Though they have no idea what the V87 error means and even if it points to a network problem. At least, that's the response I got when I asked them about it today.

As to the wireless bridge (Linksys EA6500/WUMC710).... it performs at wireless speeds of up to 1300 Mbps, so I don't see that as being the issue. I use that link for other purposes (streaming from a PC to a Sony Google TV unit) and have had no issues with it. And I received my second Premiere just prior to the Fall update and had no V87 errors in my limited testing. After the Fall update, I get one or more V87 error per show.


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## moyekj

No wireless here and I had this V87 error tonight as well. What was more annoying is following the error when I returned to MRS the show it lost the pause point and play back started all the way from the start. Note that by the prefix error "V" it implies the error is a Video (decoder?) error of some sort since network errors traditionally have "C" or "N" prefix.


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## gteague

the first thing i noticed was that three (of four) of my wishlists that use category as the criteria sat in 'updating' mode in spm for many hours. i finally deleted these and re-created them and this seemed to work fine. no idea why just one of them had no problems. as a consequence (i suspect) a folder i had containing 73 shows spewed half of them out into the general index and i despair of ever cleaning that up.

but here's the problem i'd like someone to confirm. create a wishlist by category (science/nature) and make sure view upcoming shows many candidates for recording. note one of these (for example: 'how its made') then go into keyword or keyword title and enter 'how its made' and then go back in and put the '-' flag by it to keep it from recording. now show upcoming again and in my case there are absolutely no shows to record. i've tried this over and over and the very act of putting a '-' flagged keyword or title keyword seems to suppress everything in that wishlist. if you leave off the flag, it works as you'd expect and only picks up the 'how its made' shows and nothing else.

/guy


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## seattlewendell

moyekj said:


> I don't think TiVo supports MRS with wireless setup and I don't blame them if that is indeed the case.


Then please stop thinking....as you are clearly wrong.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Catty.

It's supported insofar as "it can happen" if your wireless network is robust enough. But Tivo's not going to offer _customer service support_ because they say explicitly of MRS, "All DVRs must connect to broadband Internet with a wired or MoCA connection."

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1986

Tivo's not in business to troubleshoot the infinite number of things that could be wrong with an infinite number of wireless routers and networks. So they removed it from the equation. It's done at your own risk.


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## beejay

gteague said:


> but here's the problem i'd like someone to confirm. create a wishlist by category (science/nature) and make sure view upcoming shows many candidates for recording. note one of these (for example: 'how its made') then go into keyword or keyword title and enter 'how its made' and then go back in and put the '-' flag by it to keep it from recording. now show upcoming again and in my case there are absolutely no shows to record.
> /guy


I can duplicate that in 20.2.2 (it's not new in 20.2.2.1). Now to worry about my current wishlists....


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## innocentfreak

seattlewendell said:


> Then please stop thinking....as you are clearly wrong.


Just because something works doesn't mean it is officially supported.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1986



> Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) allows you to enjoy your programming from more locations faster than ever. With MRS you can to stream video over your high- speed home network within seconds and get back to enjoying your favorite shows from any room you have a TiVo Premiere series DVR.
> 
> Requirements:
> 
> Two or more Premiere series DVRs on the same TiVo account.
> All Premiere series DVRs must be running software version 20.2 or later. For instructions on how to check your current software version, click here.
>  *All DVRs must connect to broadband Internet with a wired or MoCA connection.*


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## compnurd

innocentfreak said:


> Just because something works doesn't mean it is officially supported.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1986


+1


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## saeba

innocentfreak said:


> Just because something works doesn't mean it is officially supported.
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1986


You're missing the point here.

(1) Since there's no documentation on the V87 error, we don't know if it is network related or not. Network may not have anything to do with it.

(2) Folks have reported receiving the V87 error who are not using a wireless connection.

(3) I didn't see the issue prior to the Fall update and I did have my wireless bridge then.

I asked TiVo support via support chat to document the V87 error so that I have some idea of what to look into to resolve it.


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## stevewjackson

I signed up last week when I heard about this update and received it on Saturday. I was really looking forward to the options that are now available on the HDUI's To Do List. I decided I liked the setting to show all programs that will record, won't due to conflicts, and won't due to other reasons. But the trouble I've found is that the setting doesn't stick. When I come back to the To To List later, it's back to the apparent default setting of showing what will record and conflicts.


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## moyekj

gteague said:


> t
> 
> but here's the problem i'd like someone to confirm. create a wishlist by category (science/nature) and make sure view upcoming shows many candidates for recording. note one of these (for example: 'how its made') then go into keyword or keyword title and enter 'how its made' and then go back in and put the '-' flag by it to keep it from recording. now show upcoming again and in my case there are absolutely no shows to record. i've tried this over and over and the very act of putting a '-' flagged keyword or title keyword seems to suppress everything in that wishlist. if you leave off the flag, it works as you'd expect and only picks up the 'how its made' shows and nothing else.
> 
> /guy


 I think it was mentioned somewhere with this software update that there needs to be at least one OPTIONAL or REQUIRED entry in the title before a NEGATIVE is added or it doesn't work properly. i.e. If 1st title entry starts with a - then it won't work.


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## gteague

moyekj said:


> I think it was mentioned somewhere with this software update that there needs to be at least one OPTIONAL or REQUIRED entry in the title before a NEGATIVE is added or it doesn't work properly. i.e. If 1st title entry starts with a - then it won't work.


thanks! i'm grasping at straws here for a workaround to this and hopefully this will solve the issue. i'm still reeling from having to re-do 3 wishlists which had long lists of things not to record which will have to be re-created as shows record which i don't want.

i'll try this workaround this evening and let you know ...

/guy


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## gteague

moyekj said:


> I think it was mentioned somewhere with this software update that there needs to be at least one OPTIONAL or REQUIRED entry in the title before a NEGATIVE is added or it doesn't work properly. i.e. If 1st title entry starts with a - then it won't work.


... unfortunately, if you put anything into /keyword/ or /title keyword/ and don't preface it with the '-' or enclose it in parentheses, it will only record that one title.

and, as far as i can tell, if you enclose it in parentheses, which ought to make it optional, it works the same way, you will only record the item in parentheses.

so there seems no way to exclude items if you have to have a required or optional item in the list. as far as i know, this has always worked this way and if you put one 'optional' item in then you had to list every item you wanted recorded as optional because once you put a single item in, it would only record that single item and not the items from the category your were recording.

i've never understood this behavior, quite frankly, but worked around it by only listing the items from the overall category i _didn't_ want to record. but now this has quit working and it has quit working only on wishlists created after the update.

wishlists i had previously which contain only 'don't record' items are working fine. the reason i had to create new wishlists was because after the update they just continually said 'updating' in the spm, even after nearly 24hrs.

but creating new ones has caused me all sorts of problems in that the items in the existing folders spewed out into the general index as single items and there is no way for me to clean up the 'my shows' index until i've watched all the old items or recorded them over again into the new folder. it's a right mess, it tell you!

anyway, thanks for the suggestion even if it didn't work. i'd be happy to try anything else you or others might suggest. if my procedure seems to be wrong, pls let me know.

/guy


----------



## moyekj

gteague, yes I think it's a pretty serious bug and warrants getting TiVo's attention before general release. I don't "Tweet", but Twitter seems good way to get Margret's attention. Else you can try PM'ing her.


----------



## gteague

moyekj said:


> gteague, yes I think it's a pretty serious bug and warrants getting TiVo's attention before general release. I don't "Tweet", but Twitter seems good way to get Margret's attention. Else you can try PM'ing her.


will do.

tks, /guy


----------



## mattack

TZR916 said:


> To Do List- something I would never think of using.
> 
> Show's Details > More Options > View Upcoming > Upcoming Episodes list > page up/down works fine.


I use to do list ALL the time.

You did not ENTER a specific show. go RIGHT one more time.. then try page up/down.. does not work.


----------



## seattlewendell

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Catty.
> 
> It's supported insofar as "it can happen" if your wireless network is robust enough. But Tivo's not going to offer _customer service support_ because they say explicitly of MRS, "All DVRs must connect to broadband Internet with a wired or MoCA connection."
> 
> http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1986
> 
> Tivo's not in business to troubleshoot the infinite number of things that could be wrong with an infinite number of wireless routers and networks. So they removed it from the equation. It's done at your own risk.


Since numerous people with Moca and other hard wired connections are also experience this issue, it's not a wireless issue. Also there are an infinate number of routers that you can hardware a TiVo to and they are in the business of troubleshooting that. The issue seems to be that not enough people have having the issue for TiVo to give an damn until 2013. Their date not mine.


----------



## gteague

moyekj said:


> gteague, yes I think it's a pretty serious bug and warrants getting TiVo's attention before general release. I don't "Tweet", but Twitter seems good way to get Margret's attention. Else you can try PM'ing her.


margret says they are aware of the wishlist 'exclude' issue and it should be fixed in the first 2013 release.

guess i'll just have to keep enough space on my drive and exercise my delete button finger daily until they get that fixed. otherwise the only other solution i see is to create a blank wishlist and only put the shows you want to record in there. but then you won't get new shows in the category you want to watch.

/guy


----------



## seattlewendell

compnurd said:


> +1


Minus one. For the 900th time. It's not a wireless issue. Thanks for paying attention.


----------



## compnurd

seattlewendell said:


> Minus one. For the 900th time. It's not a wireless issue. Thanks for paying attention.


It is a wireless issue smart ass. Use the search feature on the website and you will see it was a bug with wireless connections that was revealed in the spring update. A minor update after fixed the issue. It has come back with the fall update. I used to get the error when I had the issue with one premiere on wireless. I moved that one to moca and have never seen it again. We believed it is not a bandwidth issue but possible latency bug with wireless

If you want data counts, instead of "numerous" people. Start a thread with a poll to see who with a wired or moca connection get the issue. Once you get that data, email it to Margert letting her know about the problem


----------



## moyekj

gteague said:


> margret says they are aware of the wishlist 'exclude' issue and it should be fixed in the first 2013 release.
> 
> guess i'll just have to keep enough space on my drive and exercise my delete button finger daily until they get that fixed. otherwise the only other solution i see is to create a blank wishlist and only put the shows you want to record in there. but then you won't get new shows in the category you want to watch.
> 
> /guy


 The alternative for now is don't make it ARWL and about once a week look at upcoming and pick and choose the ones you want to record. A little more work than removing extra unwanted recordings but saves space. I do that quite a bit with NFL games and the like, but then usually there's only a few I actually want to record, not a lot of shows as is likely in your case.


----------



## gteague

making it even tougher to figure out what is going wrong with things in this new release is that the tivo services have been terribly slow and unavailable over the last 10 hours. for the last 2-3 hours i cannot even pull up a guide, live or list.

anyway, i have another possible bug i'd like if someone else could confirm. i've already sent it to margret and here's the text of my email:

... recording a show from a category wishlist results in the show being placed inside the wishlist category folder in the 'my shows' index listing, but also throws it outside the folder as an individual item. thus i can't delete the single item listing because it will also delete it from the folder.

in other words, recordings started from a category wishlist show up both inside and outside the wishlist folder in 'my shows'. hope this makes sense but since tivo provides absolutely no way for anal retentive types to organize the 'my shows' listing (hint, hint) other than groups-on/groups-off name/date it drives me bonkers to have stuff just scattered everywhere. i am having to resort to a 3rd-party program kmttg that lets me sort in more helpful ways and doesn't show the duplicate items.

/guy


----------



## moyekj

gteague said:


> ... recording a show from a category wishlist results in the show being placed inside the wishlist category folder in the 'my shows' index listing, but also throws it outside the folder as an individual item. thus i can't delete the single item listing because it will also delete it from the folder.


 I think that has been mentioned before in these forums as well with this new software and the deal there is if you have a ARWL but then you manually schedule a one time recording of the show that would record via the ARWL then it will show up twice. I think I've also seen it happen if I change recording options (extend time for example) on an individual show that is part of ARWL.


----------



## gteague

_arwl_ being 'auto recording wish list'? a wish list that is in the spm to be recorded?

i've had to lean heavily on wishlists over the last couple of years because the spm was just too slow for words. but that kmttg app you put me onto saved the day. it's even easier to keep it running that to grab my iphone or ipad to avoid the delay that way. this new release is a great improvement in that it doesn't lock you up, but if you do a lot of re-arranging in the spm you'll see the clock spinning in other places--such as if you do an 'upcoming' in a wish list. tivo is sneaky--they've moved the spm processing to the background, but it still has to be done somehow.

/guy


----------



## chiguy50

compnurd said:


> It is a wireless issue smart ass. Use the search feature on the website and you will see it was a bug with wireless connections that was revealed in the spring update. A minor update after fixed the issue. It has come back with the fall update. I used to get the error when I had the issue with one premiere on wireless. I moved that one to moca and have never seen it again. We believed it is not a bandwidth issue but possible latency bug with wireless
> 
> If you want data counts, instead of "numerous" people. Start a thread with a poll to see who with a wired or moca connection get the issue. Once you get that data, email it to Margert letting her know about the problem


I just got the V87 error yesterday PM while MRS'ing from my Premiere to my Premiere Elite. I was able to immediately resume streaming and finished watching the 1hr recording without further errors.

For the record, my connections are all hard-wired via cat6 to my D-Link DIR-655 router. Both TiVo's are running 20.2.2.1, and I cannot recall the last time I had any issues with MRS before this latest FW update.


----------



## compnurd

chiguy50 said:


> I just got the V87 error yesterday PM while MRS'ing from my Premiere to my Premiere Elite. I was able to immediately resume streaming and finished watching the 1hr recording without further errors.
> 
> For the record, my connections are all hard-wired via cat6 to my D-Link DIR-655 router. Both TiVo's are running 20.2.2.1, and I cannot recall the last time I had any issues with MRS before this latest FW update.


Then like I told him, gather some data to send to Tivo.. Instead of being a smart ass and disputing all of the data that was gathered after the last update(not you)

jumping in every 5 threads telling people they are wrong is not going to fix the issue


----------



## saeba

chiguy50 said:


> I just got the V87 error yesterday PM while MRS'ing from my Premiere to my Premiere Elite. I was able to immediately resume streaming and finished watching the 1hr recording without further errors.
> 
> For the record, my connections are all hard-wired via cat6 to my D-Link DIR-655 router. Both TiVo's are running 20.2.2.1, and I cannot recall the last time I had any issues with MRS before this latest FW update.


Thanks for this info! This confirms that I'd be wasting my time trying to run a cable to my downstairs TiVo.


----------



## chiguy50

compnurd said:


> Then like I told him, gather some data to send to Tivo.. Instead of being a smart ass and disputing all of the data that was gathered after the last update(not you)
> 
> jumping in every 5 threads telling people they are wrong is not going to fix the issue


Defensive much?

I'm not complaining or disputing; just providing more input. Use or ignore it as you wish, but your contentious tone makes it harder to take your comments at face value.


----------



## chiguy50

saeba said:


> Thanks for this info! This confirms that I'd be wasting my time trying to run a cable to my downstairs TiVo.


It may or may not definitively resolve your current MRS issues, but hard-wiring your networked components is hardly a waste of time in most cases. If it's feasible and practical, I would strongly recommend doing it. I used to have my TiVo's connected via wireless G adapters and the connection speed and reliability is now vastly improved; I am very, very happy I did it.

For the record, I did the work myself with no prior experience, including drilling through a wall, and you would never know anything had been touched! Very satisfying!


----------



## saeba

chiguy50 said:


> It may or may not definitively resolve your current MRS issues, but hard-wiring your networked components is hardly a waste of time in most cases. If it's feasible and practical, I would strongly recommend doing it. I used to have my TiVo's connected via wireless G adapters and the connection speed and reliability is now vastly improved; I am very, very happy I did it.


I thought about it.... but upgraded from wireless-G to one of the new wireless-AC AP/Bridge combos instead. Absolutely no walls damaged in the installation ;-)! They rate the connection at 1300Mbps which I suspect is marketing hype, but the reality is that it's more than enough for my uses (Sony Google TV, TiVo Premiere XL4). As it's on 5ghz, there's no interference from the neighbors.


----------



## NiteCourt

saeba said:


> I thought about it.... but upgraded from wireless-G to one of the new wireless-AC AP/Bridge combos instead. Absolutely no walls damaged in the installation ;-)! They rate the connection at 1300Mbps which I suspect is marketing hype, but the reality is that it's more than enough for my uses (Sony Google TV, TiVo Premiere XL4). As it's on 5ghz, there's no interference from the neighbors.


For the past year I had been using a 5Ghz Wireless N bridge with one Premiere, another Premiere wired, and never had a problem using MRS between the two until the fall update. I now can not watch a show without a V87 error.


----------



## steve614

The reason TiVo has never heard of the V87 error is because it stands for 
Violation 8.7 - customer is trying to use wireless for features that require a wired connection.


----------



## astrohip

gteague said:


> anyway, i have another possible bug i'd like if someone else could confirm. i've already sent it to margret and here's the text of my email:
> 
> ... recording a show from a category wishlist results in the show being placed inside the wishlist category folder in the 'my shows' index listing, but also throws it outside the folder as an individual item. thus i can't delete the single item listing because it will also delete it from the folder.
> 
> in other words, recordings started from a category wishlist show up both inside and outside the wishlist folder in 'my shows'. hope this makes sense but since tivo provides absolutely no way for anal retentive types to organize the 'my shows' listing (hint, hint) other than groups-on/groups-off name/date it drives me bonkers to have stuff just scattered everywhere. i am having to resort to a 3rd-party program kmttg that lets me sort in more helpful ways and doesn't show the duplicate items.
> 
> /guy


See this thread here, and specifically my results here.

What you are saying makes absolute sense, it drove me crazy enough to create a thread about it.


----------



## NiteCourt

Well we know that can't be true since there have been people wired and Moca reporting the error also.


----------



## gteague

astrohip said:


> See this thread here, and specifically my results here.
> 
> What you are saying makes absolute sense, it drove me crazy enough to create a thread about it.


yes, i manipulate wishlists exactly as you do, using 'upcoming' to cancel or add recordings. i suspected it was these manually manipulated items that were causing the behavior, but i appreciate you confirming it. this behavior only started two or three updates ago i believe.

but this update has made re-creating my wishlists impossible because i had lists of show titles not to record (-) and you can no longer use these because it blocks all recordings. and even adding an optional () item causes the wishlist to _only_ record those items and not the other items for the category you've selected. at least tivo (margret) has acknowledged this bug and said it would be fixed early in 2013.

add all this to the inability for the user to manage the /my shows/ folder by creating and renaming folders and moving items and it's a frickin' mess. as you said, i now have hundreds of items to scroll through instead of dozens. chaos rules the day.

/guy


----------



## TiVoMargret

We have begun the full rollout of 20.2.2.1. (Note: there are limited zip codes that will stay at 20.2.2 for another month or so.)

--Margret


----------



## sea7kenp

Hello. I'm part of the "full rollout" of 20.2.2.1. A basic premise of the original TiVo "philosophy" is now broken, because of this software shift. Yes, I'm talking about "least common denominator" people possibly getting bad feelings about TiVo, because of what you take away from the TV Viewing experience.

This is a very specific issue: Pre 20.2.2.1, if I'm watching program A at 4pm, planning to record program B at 5pm, TiVo handled this extremely well. The 30 minute buffer was there to help with, say, restroom breaks or minor home emergencies. As long as you're within the 30 minute window, you could pretty much count on TiVo to give you continuity on your TV. And if you know the ropes, you can see what's going on, based on the details in the bar line. (And some of this is even documented in the manuals that come with the Premiere hardware).

After this shift to 20.2.2.1, !!BUG!! When the time comes where the new program is to start recording, you are JERKED right to the beginning of that show, losing that last 10 minutes of the prior show. See, I don't record all of what I watch. That would be silly! But the 30 minute buffer was supposed to cushion the transitions between live TV and a live TV show you are choosing to record. Just because I want to see a movie in the next hour, I don't want to miss the end of the prior show. (i.e. "Now, I'll NEVER know who shot the sheriff!").

[Added through Edit]: Note: I'm using the SD menus. The HD menus expect me to have Broadband up all the time, and don't let me view recorded programs if my Internet connection is down.

This is a "basic VCR" issue, which worked, all the way back to the old Sony Series 1 machine. Please consider it a bug and fix it.

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


----------



## gteague

move kookiness with wishlists since the update. an item showed up in a wishlist folder which i deleted last week. yes, that's right. a folder came back from the dead having survived at least two power resets. something is seriously corrupted in the wishlist arena. as i noted earlier, i had to re-create nearly all of my wishlists because they were just stuck at 'updating', but re-creating them caused other problems.

if my experience is typical, expect a bunch of support calls after a full rollout if other users use wishlists as i do.

/guy


----------



## chiguy50

gteague said:


> move kookiness with wishlists since the update. an item showed up in a wishlist folder which i deleted last week. yes, that's right. a folder came back from the dead having survived at least two power resets. something is seriously corrupted in the wishlist arena. as i noted earlier, i had to re-create nearly all of my wishlists because they were just stuck at 'updating', but re-creating them caused other problems.
> 
> if my experience is typical, expect a bunch of support calls after a full rollout if other users use wishlists as i do.
> 
> /guy


This is not a bug. It's part of a larger promo for AMC's hit zombie series "The Walking Dead"


----------



## sea7kenp

Guy, at least your issue is recording something you don't want. My issue (losing the end of a program, due to loss of "buffer time") is actually losing something that might (if live and not repeated) never be broadcast again.

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


----------



## johnfarmer55

sea7kenp said:


> ... (i.e. "Now, I'll NEVER know who shot the sheriff!").
> 
> This is a "basic VCR" issue, which worked, all the way back to the old Sony Series 1 machine. Please consider it a bug and fix it.
> 
> Thank you and best regards,
> 
> Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


This happened to me this morning! I should say to my daughter. Do you know what kind of a tantrum a 4 year old throws when Sesame Street suddenly changes to another program when there's still a good 15 minutes left in the show?! It was not pretty....


----------



## CoxInPHX

Is anyone else seeing that the Season# and Episode# is missing from most all shows in the HDUI?

I have an Elite with 20.2.2.1, my Premiere is fine.


----------



## mrizzo80

CoxInPHX said:


> Is anyone else seeing that the Season# and Episode# is missing from most all shows in the HDUI?
> 
> I have an Elite with 20.2.2.1, my Premiere is fine.


What screen? I just scanned some of my Elite recordings and the Sea/Ep data appears to be there on the right-hand sidebar in folder list views (like when browsing a folder for a specific show).


----------



## CoxInPHX

mrizzo80 said:


> What screen? I just scanned some of my Elite recordings and the Sea/Ep data appears to be there on the right-hand sidebar in folder list views (like when browsing a folder for a specific show).


Mine are missing on all menus, Both Guides, Info Banners, To Do List, My Shows, Show details, Upcoming Episodes.


----------



## slice1900

sea7kenp said:


> Hello. I'm part of the "full rollout" of 20.2.2.1. A basic premise of the original TiVo "philosophy" is now broken, because of this software shift. Yes, I'm talking about "least common denominator" people possibly getting bad feelings about TiVo, because of what you take away from the TV Viewing experience.
> 
> This is a very specific issue: Pre 20.2.2.1, if I'm watching program A at 4pm, planning to record program B at 5pm, TiVo handled this extremely well. The 30 minute buffer was there to help with, say, restroom breaks or minor home emergencies. As long as you're within the 30 minute window, you could pretty much count on TiVo to give you continuity on your TV. And if you know the ropes, you can see what's going on, based on the details in the bar line. (And some of this is even documented in the manuals that come with the Premiere hardware).
> 
> After this shift to 20.2.2.1, !!BUG!! When the time comes where the new program is to start recording, you are JERKED right to the beginning of that show, losing that last 10 minutes of the prior show. See, I don't record all of what I watch. That would be silly! But the 30 minute buffer was supposed to cushion the transitions between live TV and a live TV show you are choosing to record. Just because I want to see a movie in the next hour, I don't want to miss the end of the prior show. (i.e. "Now, I'll NEVER know who shot the sheriff!").
> 
> [Added through Edit]: Note: I'm using the SD menus. The HD menus expect me to have Broadband up all the time, and don't let me view recorded programs if my Internet connection is down.
> 
> This is a "basic VCR" issue, which worked, all the way back to the old Sony Series 1 machine. Please consider it a bug and fix it.
> 
> Thank you and best regards,
> 
> Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


This isn't new with 20.2.2.1, I started seeing this a month or two back after I got 20.2.2. Every update Tivo does the past couple years seems to be two steps forward, two steps back. There was never any problem with this functionality before, now there is - I did see one time where it worked that I was able to watch the live buffer for the channel I was on even when both tuners were recording other channels, but I have no idea why it worked that one time but failed every other time.

They are constantly introducing and fixing bugs that relate to the "pointer" to where you are in the current buffer (whether live or recorded) when doing certain things on the HD menus. For instance, now in the HD menus if you are watching a recorded program and go into the guide to check things out and set a recording, it works fine as it did before. Unless you select the options menu to extend the recording a bit, in which case as you back out of it the pointer to where you are resets to the place you were when you FIRST ENTERED THE GUIDE. That made the bug worse from pre 20.2.2 where it used to go back to where it was to when you first selected record on that program. I don't mind a bug that makes me rewatch the past 15-30 seconds, but the new bug often sends me back to the beginning of the program! So now I have to pay attention to where I am in the program before I record something in case I want to adjust the end time and need to find my place again after it decides to send me back to the beginning (or wherever I was when I entered the guide) Honestly, how hard is it to keep track of where I am in the stupid program????

On the other hand, they made it so the guide has "memory", so if you hit >> a couple times to go forward two days in the guide, then exit the guide for a bit (for instance, to check exactly where you are in the buffer so you'll know where to go back to after your stupid Tivo decides to send back way back in the buffer due to the above bug) when you go back into the guide it goes back to the exact spot you were - same time forward, same channel, exactly where you were. This is a nice a improvement - though given the way Tivo works I expect this was either an accident or it will go away in the next update and something else will be improved...can't allow any overall progress! There's never any progress overall, except a few more HD screens and talk of various improvements to non-core functionality like the Netflix menus. Fix this stuff that makes a Tivo a Tivo before worrying about Netflix, PLEASE!

I really wish on Tivo would call a moratorium on adding new features (especially non-core functionality like Netflix) and just FIX THE EXISTING BUGS with basic stuff like dealing with the pointer to where you are in what you are watching. They have STILL not fixed the bug where if you are fast forwarding through commercials and hit "play", sometimes it randomly jumps you forward in the show. Sometimes a minute or two, occasionally more like 10 minutes. It is really annoying to be skipping through commercials and doing a good job of timing when to hit "play" to start watching the program, and have my Tivo stupidly jump me forward five minutes for no good reason other than that the programmers are wasting time creating a new interface for Netflix, or making things HD screens that should have been from the release of the HD code if they hadn't been rushing it. It has been doing this the entire time I've owned my Premiere, and I cannot comprehend why. Keeping track of where you are in the program seems like such basic functionality, it is like having a car that while you've driving the steering wheel randomly decides to jerk to the left or right without warning leaving it up to the driver to correct it.

I'm on Tivo's monthly survey list, but do they ever ask about bugs or things in basic functionality you want to see fixed? Of course not, they ask me stupid stuff like what movies in theatres I've seen, what kind of car I'm considering buying and whether they should improve Netflix functionality or MRS functionality first? How about asking for a top five list of the most annoying bugs or shortcomings of the DVR functionality? Or are the people writing these surveys so blind that they think everything works perfectly so there's no need to ask such a question?


----------



## mattack

Is there a way, in the HD UI, to see the list of suggestions?


----------



## innocentfreak

mattack said:


> Is there a way, in the HD UI, to see the list of suggestions?


Browse TV & Movies
TV

Second box should be Suggestions


----------



## gteague

chiguy50 said:


> This is not a bug. It's part of a larger promo for AMC's hit zombie series "The Walking Dead"


+1lol!


----------



## David Knowles

This may have been mentioned earlier, but the bug that was introduced with the last update that your transferred (from a PC) would not show in folders has been fixed


----------



## severe

TiVoMargret said:


> * Channel Logos have been restored in the Guide


I woke up this morning to this latest update and oddly enough, while checking out the new features, I'd noticed I no longer have channel logos/call signs in my guide.

This had never been a problem for me. So it's particularly interesting that this update was supposed to have fixed the issue.


----------



## tomhorsley

Swell. Just got the wunnerful new fall update. The web interface now refuses to show me what is in the Tivo Suggestions and HD Recording directory when I goto the TiVo with my browser on my desktop. Channel surfing is much slower. The whole interface, in fact, is much slower. If they improve it any more, the old Comcast Scientific Atlanta DVR I had may seem desirable again (and it was what drove me to TiVo in the first place).


----------



## haplo888

The newest update causes a loss of station information on recordings from a previous lineup.

One of my XL4/Elite boxes that came with the Fall Update already installed has received a 2nd fall update. The other still has the original fall update.

My XL4 has 20.2.2
My Elite now has 20.2.2.1

The one with the newer 20.2.2.1 update has lost all of the station data for existing recordings from a previous lineup.

Through 20.2.2 TIVO was really smart on how to handle recordings from a previous lineup. It recognized the station, for instance H2 (ch341), found where H2 is on your current lineup, and assigned the new channel (ch127) and H2 to your existing recording.

With 20.2.2.1 TIVO instead loses the station identification, and assigns what whatever station is currently associated with the channel (ch341) STARS to the recording even though it was originally recorded on H2. This also sometimes causes a failure when you attempt Explore This Show. It finds nothing and returns you to the episode screen.

In addition to the Explore This Show failures, this is frustrating because the station that a show was recorded on tells me a lot about the type of show it is.


----------



## ntarvin

A little bit of weirdness - my Stream,Baby,Stream is still in the Showcases and Apps, but now it reads "Stream,/032Baby,/032Stream". Still works, but just looks strange. Also, the folder for Tivo Desktop Plus is gone from the end of the My Shows list.

On another note - is there any way at all to get rid of the games that are loaded in with Showcases and Apps???

(Just got the first update this morning - 20.2.2.1 - when will the second one come in???)


----------



## davemac

I'm using the SD menus. I searched the forum but haven't found any note about the channel banner display having changed from full to medium. Even worse, the display will no longer honor my preference if I change it using the right arrow button. Anyone else seeing this? I have it on both Premieres.


----------



## wmcbrine

tomhorsley said:


> The web interface now refuses to show me what is in the Tivo Suggestions and HD Recording directory


Confirmed.



> _Channel surfing is much slower. The whole interface, in fact, is much slower._


I'm not seeing this.


----------



## wmcbrine

ntarvin said:


> A little bit of weirdness - my Stream,Baby,Stream is still in the Showcases and Apps, but now it reads "Stream,/032Baby,/032Stream".


See here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=497441



> _On another note - is there any way at all to get rid of the games that are loaded in with Showcases and Apps???_


No. You can only remove them if you'd previously added them yourself, via the "Add an App" function. TiVo doesn't let you remove the ones they provide. Why do you want to?


----------



## tomhorsley

tomhorsley said:


> Channel surfing is much slower. The whole interface, in fact, is much slower.


Well, after a power cycle of the TiVo, the speed seems about the same (still too slow, but it doesn't feel slower than it was before the update). Power cycle didn't help the web interface though. I wonder if it is now impossible to download shows from those folders?


----------



## Arcady

Click the "classic" link at the bottom of the list and it will turn off folders, allowing you to see (and download) the suggestions mixed in with everything else.


----------



## mrsean

tomhorsley said:


> Well, after a power cycle of the TiVo, the speed seems about the same (*still too slow*, but it doesn't feel slower than it was before the update).


ITA. The verizon fios dvr runs circles around the Premiere when it comes to channel surfing, but it's the opposite for everything else.


----------



## sea7kenp

Two updates on my prior post on loss of the end of Program A (say 4pm), when recording Program B (at 5pm): When behind in program A (i.e. 10-15 minutes), you lose the end of it, EVEN IF YOU ARE RECORDING BOTH PROGRAMS. (Obviously, you can go back to the recording of A to view the end of it if you recorded it. But I wanted to note that this is more basic than I thought).

Before posting on this forum, I'd brought this up with TiVo Technical Service, and have an Issue Number of 121204015104 for it. Also, I got one piece of data from the technician on the phone: My old Software Version was 20.2.1.2, so I jumped two releases. (This to respond to the person who stated the same behavior on 20.2.2).

I still consider this a !!BUG!!.

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


----------



## compnurd

mrsean said:


> ITA. The verizon fios dvr runs circles around the Premiere when it comes to channel surfing, but it's the opposite for everything else.


Yes and my POS Pace box from my cable company is also faster at channel surfing. But the box and interface suck... IMO there are too many channels these days to channel surf


----------



## JandS

Ken, is there any difference whether the two programs are on the same channel vs. different channels?

Bonus (me=idiot) question, you have a Premiere so is that a 2 tuner or 4 tuner?

And, finally, when Program B starts to record, do you get the momentary blackout of audio and video on Program A (we get both audio and video blackout).



sea7kenp said:


> Two updates on my prior post on loss of the end of Program A (say 4pm), when recording Program B (at 5pm): When behind in program A (i.e. 10-15 minutes), you lose the end of it, EVEN IF YOU ARE RECORDING BOTH PROGRAMS.


----------



## L David Matheny

sea7kenp said:


> Two updates on my prior post on loss of the end of Program A (say 4pm), when recording Program B (at 5pm): When behind in program A (i.e. 10-15 minutes), you lose the end of it, EVEN IF YOU ARE RECORDING BOTH PROGRAMS. (Obviously, you can go back to the recording of A to view the end of it if you recorded it. But I wanted to note that this is more basic than I thought).


That is interesting. Obviously the data stream being sent out by the TiVo is not being discarded in the case of a recording, so maybe the bug is just that somebody decided to force a jump to the new channel whenever a channel change occurs. That makes no sense since a channel change affects what is being written to disk, not what is being read from disk. The output routine shouldn't care what channel the tuner is on. The previous behavior of continuing the now-orphaned data stream until its end is more logical and much more desirable. Maybe some programmer thought he had a better way to do something, but he hadn't thought it through sufficiently.


----------



## sea7kenp

JandS said:


> Ken, is there any difference whether the two programs are on the same channel vs. different channels?


The difference with different channels is that the recording normally starts on the other Tuner, where I don't notice this problem.



> Bonus (me=idiot) question, you have a Premiere so is that a 2 tuner or 4 tuner?


2 tuner. So far, that's plenty enough for me.



> And, finally, when Program B starts to record, do you get the momentary blackout of audio and video on Program A (we get both audio and video blackout).


I'd noticed something like that way before this update. If I start a recording say, 10 minutes before the start of a program, and am watching, I'll lose several words (up to a couple or so sentences) between "live TV" and "live, recorded TV". Same thing happens if I end the show with the first 5 minutes of the next show. I never let THAT bother me. But losing the climax of a murder mystery or Science Fiction show? OUCH!!!

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


----------



## sea7kenp

L David Matheny said:


> That is interesting. Obviously the data stream being sent out by the TiVo is not being discarded in the case of a recording, so maybe the bug is just that somebody decided to force a jump to the new channel whenever a channel change occurs. That makes no sense since a channel change affects what is being written to disk, not what is being read from disk. The output routine shouldn't care what channel the tuner is on. The previous behavior of continuing the now-orphaned data stream until its end is more logical and much more desirable. Maybe some programmer thought he had a better way to do something, but he hadn't thought it through sufficiently.


Thank you, David. TiVo probably doesn't think it's "discarding data" at all. In fact, it's the time shifting that's lost. In fact, thanks for giving me a way to describe this problem: "continuing the now-orphaned data stream until its end". I consider anything OTHER than that to be a Bug.

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


----------



## chrispitude

It looks like we caught lots of things during the early rollout, but not early enough to fix them before general rollout. To me, this seems to defeat the purpose of having the early rollout.

(I work for a large software company where we have internal alpha and customer beta test periods every six months.)


----------



## gteague

just sent the following email to tivo:

hi margret: sorry to be writing yet again on basically the same subject, but the latest update has literally destroyed previous wishlist behavior (such as the (-) flag keeping anything from recording) and how the shows in /my shows/ are presented. basically it is impossible to maintain files in folders anymore, they just pop out into the general index seemingly at random.

for example, i flagged a show inside a wishlist folder as a keeper and the system promptly kicked that program out of the folder into the general index area. this means it is impossible for me to put it back into the folder or delete it because it will disappear from within the folder as well. there is more behavior of this sort where i haven't even been able to put the action together with the reaction.

the root of the problem seems simple. back in the original tivo days there wasn't enough storage to even worry about this sort of thing. but with 3-4 tb of storage someone like me can have literally 100s of shows recorded at only 50% usage. there has to be a better way of organizing the main way you index your recorded shows.

for an example, when the iphone came out all you had was pages and pages of single apps and no real way to search for them. i had hundreds of apps and there were many i forgot i had because i just couldn't get to them. but apple recognized the problem and first implemented a folder system where you could make your own folders and add apps to them. then they implemented a search, and then later even a voice search with siri. tivo doesn't need to go that far (siri's an inconsistent assistant at best and i rarely use it except for an app search), but i would hope that you're hard at work at some solution to this problem as i write this so we'll have something within the next year.

meanwhile, i'm at a complete loss at how to manage my shows with this update blowing up my wishlists and the new wishlists i've had to create to replace them exhibiting such random and destructive (destructive to my sense of order, that is) behavior.

thanks!

/guy


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## MHunter1

sea7kenp said:


> When the time comes where the new program is to start recording, you are JERKED to the beginning of that show


Here's more strange behavior related to channel changing:

If the TiVo is idle on a Program Summary screen or the My Shows list for less than 15 minutes and a scheduled recording begins (such as the clock turning to a new hour or half-hour), the screen jerks Left one level on its own and the highlight moves up by the number of tuners that just began recording.

For example, in the following screen capture video, notice I park the TiVo on "Book TV"'s program summary screen then go to Live TV to show the clock says 6:29pm. I press Left to go back to the program summary screen and, at 6:30pm, the screen moves left ON ITS OWN to the My Shows list as one new program begins recording and the highlight jumps one row ABOVE the one I was just parked on.


----------



## sea7kenp

This is the one where "orphaned data streams" are discarded prematurely, with TiVo "jerking" you to the start of the new program, now recording. I've been experimenting with this since it started, noting that, if there's only a short time remaining in the "orphaned data stream" (meaning previous show, with the time intact that you'd hit pause), everything's ok. 

My suspicion is that this has to do with if "local commercials" were in the time-span between where you are, in your viewing, and the start of the new recording. In other words, Comcast might have placed their OWN "important announcements" inside this time span. And, if that's the case, TiVo loses your place.

Thanks to every one of you who have contributed to my understanding of this issue! I'm a "big picture" person, who delves into details when I need to. Otherwise, my TiVo is a "Utility" to help me watch TV! (And I strongly suspect that a HUGE majority of TiVo users fit into this category). This is one reason I SINCERELY hope that TiVo never drops SDUI menus. (Yes, I believe MANY have purchased Premiere line TiVos, who do NOT have HD TV sets. Forcing them to navigating HD Menus, when their TV doesn't support it would be a disaster!)

Best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


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## Arcady

I haven't seen this issue. Could it be related to a tuning adapter? I don't use them.


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## CoxInPHX

I am also seeing this and am not happy about it.

Does anyone remember if it was possible in a prior SW version to record the remainder of the Buffer after the next shows time-slot has started. I could have sworn I used to be able to do this?

Example rewind into the prior show and Hit Record, did that last portion of the show record. There currently is not an option to record.

Is this possible on a Series 3?


----------



## proudx

mattack said:


> Page up/down is DIFFERENT. That is in a list, and works fine.
> 
> I am talking about e.g.:
> 1) To do list
> 2) "enter" a show
> 3) hit channel down
> -> in SD UI, you GO TO THE DETAILS OF THE NEXT SHOW IN THE TO DO LIST.
> It basically saves a lot of "left out, then down, then right in" steps.
> 
> In HD UI on Premiere 4 at least, it does not work.
> 
> (The same analogous thing works in the program details in an item in a specific folder in Now Playing, in View Upcoming, etc.. None of them work in HD UI on Premiere 4 at least. They all work [in SD UI] on my Tivo HD, and I'm almost positive, in SD UI on Premiere 4.)


Margret,

Being able to use channel up and down while in a folder to go through the shows/episodes in that folder was a feature we always had on the TIVO and SDUI. Can you please make sure this gets fixed in the next update? It has never worked in the HDUI.'

Thanks!


----------



## sea7kenp

CoxInPHX said:


> Does anyone remember if it was possible in a prior SW version to record the remainder of the Buffer after the next shows time-slot has started. I could have sworn I used to be able to do this?
> 
> Example rewind into the prior show and Hit Record, did that last portion of the show record. There currently is not an option to record.
> 
> Is this possible on a Series 3?


In the past, if I got to a program in progress, plus the end of the prior program, when I hit record, it would include some of the prior program. Now, it immediately starts the recording at the beginning, discarding the end of the prior show.

Don't know about Series 3. Besides my Premiere, my other TiVo is a Series 1 Sony, running Software level 3.001-1-010!

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


----------



## mattack

CoxInPHX said:


> Does anyone remember if it was possible in a prior SW version to record the remainder of the Buffer after the next shows time-slot has started. I could have sworn I used to be able to do this?
> 
> Example rewind into the prior show and Hit Record, did that last portion of the show record. There currently is not an option to record.
> 
> Is this possible on a Series 3?


If you mean it's, lets say, 8:15, and you rewind to 7:50 and try to record the remainder of the 7:00-8:00 show, then NO, this did not work (Even though as far I remember, I think the display told you it would record that show.)

But if you mean you record and you get 8-9pm show PLUS some of the buffer, then yes. (Though the pause point starts at where 8pm effectively is.)

I've thought this was annoying too.


----------



## CoxInPHX

mattack said:


> If you mean it's, lets say, 8:15, and you rewind to 7:50 and try to record the remainder of the 7:00-8:00 show, then NO, this did not work (Even though as far I remember, I think the display told you it would record that show.)


Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I know my Cable Co DVR can do that. Perhaps I am confusing the two DVRs.

I wish TiVo could do that, I often find myself swapping tuners and seeing a guest at the end of Leno, or Letterman and wishing that buffer could be recorded. But there is always YouTube


----------



## unitron

CoxInPHX said:


> Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I know my Cable Co DVR can do that. Perhaps I am confusing the two DVRs.
> 
> I wish TiVo could do that, I often find myself swapping tuners and seeing a guest at the end of Leno, or Letterman and wishing that buffer could be recorded. But there is always YouTube


As long as Leno or Letterman are not yet over in real time, you can record the buffer, because telling it to record will be telling it to record that show.

It's only when the time at which the next show is scheduled to start has already passed that a record command flushes the buffer.

TiVos don't really record according to time, or, for that matter, channel, they record according to shows, and just do so between the start and stop times they have listed for that show and on the channel they have listed for that show.


----------



## CoxInPHX

unitron said:


> As long as Leno or Letterman are not yet over in real time,


In my case the show is usually already over, and I am seeing the end of the show on the buffer, but it had a music guest I would have liked to record. I know I could record every episode, but that's not the point.


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## mattack

CoxInPHX said:


> In my case the show is usually already over, and I am seeing the end of the show on the buffer, but it had a music guest I would have liked to record. I know I could record every episode, but that's not the point.


Doesn't solve your problem, but that's why I record all of the late night talk shows -- musical guests. kmttg now even allows transfer from pause point, so it's even easier to just save the musical guest.


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## sea7kenp

sea7kenp said:


> This is the one where "orphaned data streams" are discarded prematurely, with TiVo "jerking" you to the start of the new program, now recording.


I'm surprised to have experienced the OPPOSITE behavior last night. This "new" behavior occurred when I recorded a program, and then continued watching the program after it. The recorded "data stream", between 5pm and 6pm finished, and the new program at 6pm was on. I was about 5 minutes (or so) before the end of the program, and there were commercials between the two shows (which doesn't always happen, by the way). So I try to fast forward to the new show, and TiVo WOULDN'T LET ME! It went to the end of the show, continuing the commercials, and, if I hit the Fast Forward button (right of the yellow Pause button), TiVo would do the low frequency "boop", and do nothing. I could rewind, and forward, same thing. I could hit "next" (under fast forward), which would toggle between start of recorded program and end of recorded program, but keep me "imprisoned" there.

What finally allowed me to proceed was toggling between my two tuners (via the "live TV" button on the top right of the remote).

So there is misbehavior on "orphaned data streams", whether recorded or not. And I'm still convinced these are symptoms of the same !!BUG!!.

Thank you and best regards,

Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


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## proudx

Since the fall update channel changing using up and down channel buttons is very sluggish and slow.

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=11050449

talk about it in this forum as well. I placed a ticket file ticket # 121217-007992. If you experience this problem you are encouraged to place a ticket with support.


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## slowbiscuit

I have never seen slow channel changes (up, down, or directly) on my Elite no matter what update it has. Using HDUI or SDUI, it's not slow here on Comcast with no TA.


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## Einselen

If you are surfing channels you are using your TiVo wrong, just my humble opinion.


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## compnurd

Einselen said:


> If you are surfing channels you are using your TiVo wrong, just my humble opinion.


I agree especially with the change of channels changing resolution..


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## Arcady

That's what the 1080i fixed mode is for. I don't understand why anyone would use any other setting on a TV that can do 1080i.


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## compnurd

Arcady said:


> That's what the 1080i fixed mode is for. I don't understand why anyone would use any other setting on a TV that can do 1080i.


I do Native. Always have and Always will If the Channel is 720P, I want my TV set to that


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## [email protected]

Arcady said:


> That's what the 1080i fixed mode is for. I don't understand why anyone would use any other setting on a TV that can do 1080i.


The reason to use native is fast action, sport events in particular, are better in 720p than 1080i. Fast action is smoother with a progressive scan.


----------



## I WANT MORE

compnurd said:


> I do Native. Always have and Always will If the Channel is 720P, I want my TV set to that


Here Here. +1 :up:


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## atmuscarella

compnurd said:


> I do Native. Always have and Always will If the Channel is 720P, I want my TV set to that


Your TV always converts all video to the TV's Native resolution. So if it is a 1080p set everything (480i, 480p, 720p & 1080i) is up-converted to 1080p, if it is a 720p set everything is up or down converted to 720p. Having your TV convert 720p directly to 1080p without a TiVo converting it to 1080i in the middle may provide in a better picture but I am guessing most peoples actually setups make so they really can not tell the differance.



[email protected] said:


> The reason to use native is fast action, sport events in particular, are better in 720p than 1080i. Fast action is smoother with a progressive scan.


Mostly any issues with fast action sports are issues with the particular TV not if the broadcast is 1080i or 720p. Some LCDs have more problems than others with fast action and a 720p broadcast is easier for them to deal with but any good LCD TV and all plasma TVs should handle it just fine. My 4 yr old plasma has no visible issues on the 1080i or 720p stations with fast action sports. There is also no visible difference between using the TVs tuner (I am OTA) or watching through my TiVos which are all set to output fixed 1080i.


----------



## compnurd

atmuscarella said:


> Your TV always converts all video to the TV's Native resolution. So if it is a 1080p set everything (480i, 480p, 720p & 1080i) is up-converted to 1080p, if it is a 720p set everything is up or down converted to 720p. Having your TV convert 720p directly to 1080p without a TiVo converting it to 1080i in the middle may provide in a better picture but I am guessing most peoples actually setups make so they really can not tell the differance.
> 
> Mostly any issues with fast action sports are issues with the particular TV not if the broadcast is 1080i or 720p. Some LCDs have more problems than others with fast action and a 720p broadcast is easier for them to deal with but any good LCD TV and all plasma TVs should handle it just fine. My 4 yr old plasma has no visible issues on the 1080i or 720p stations with fast action sports. There is also no visible difference between using the TVs tuner or watching through my TiVos which are all set to output fixed 1080i.


My TV does not convert the resolution to anything. If the source is 720P, then the TV displays a 720P resolution. Same if it is 1080i or P when using my PS3. I select all resolutions on my Tivo so it does not convert the resolution to anything other than what the source is


----------



## atmuscarella

compnurd said:


> My TV does not convert the resolution to anything. If the source is 720P, then the TV displays a 720P resolution. Same if it is 1080i or P when using my PS3. I select all resolutions on my Tivo so it does not convert the resolution to anything other than what the source is


Your TV always converts everything to it's native resolution that is the way TVs work.


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## compnurd

atmuscarella said:


> Your TV always converts everything to it's native resolution that is the way TVs work.


We can agree to disagree. I know this also from using the PC Input on my TV... it displays the resolution I send to it


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## atmuscarella

compnurd said:


> We can agree to disagree. I know this also from using the PC Input on my TV... it displays the resolution I send to it


All TVs have a fixed output resolution you are talking about input resolution. When your TV gets a signal it converts it to the TVs fixed output resolution (the TVs native resolution). When they say a TV is a 1080p TV that is what they are telling you - the resolution of the screen and thus what your TV has to convert all signals to. That is why some people on this forum use external high quality resolution converters, how well your particular TV converts the input signal to the fixed output resolution of your screen in part determines how your picture looks. If you send your TV an input signal with a input resolution that it was not designed to handle it will still convert it but you will end up with a partial blank screen.


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## atmuscarella

compnurd said:


> We can agree to disagree. I know this also from using the PC Input on my TV... it displays the resolution I send to it


To put it another way if you have a 1080p TV and sent it a 720p signal if the TV did not convert it to 1080p the picture would only take up part of the screen, because a 720p signal has significantly less pixels they what are available on a 1080p screen.


----------



## Bierboy

berkshires said:


> MRV between Premiere XL and TiVo HD
> 
> I received notice of the update yesterday and it is 20.2.2.1
> 
> From the XL, looking at recordings on my TiVo HDs, the keep until icons are all wrong. Also looking from an HD to the XL the KUID icon doesn't show up - which is something that existed before the update...


I just noticed this, too, after firing up my XL4 for the first time Monday evening. Checked my wife's HD in the bedroom and looked at my XL4 NPL ("My Shows") and saw that a couple recordings I KNOW were KUID were not marked as such....


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## moyekj

compnurd said:


> We can agree to disagree. I know this also from using the PC Input on my TV... it displays the resolution I send to it


 It displays the resolution it receives as an input, but it still has to scale to the native display resolution of the TV itself. So the only consideration is if the TV or receiver does a better job at scaling than the TiVo. For many but not all TVs the difference is imperceptible. High end TVs and receivers will do a better job in which case using Native output on the TiVo makes sense, but the price you pay is resolution switching will cause the picture and sound to wig out for a little while the TV adjusts to the new input resolution.


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## tomhorsley

Another new irritant I've noticed on this new update:

I'm (for example) watching live TV on ESPN HD. I have a recording set to start on the same ESPN HD channel in a few minutes. When the time for the recording to start comes around, the TV goes completely silent and the screen goes black for about 5 or 10 seconds as the recording starts. Before the update I would get a much shorter glitch that only affected the sound, now both sound and picture are screwed up for a longer period of time.


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## PedjaR

moyekj said:


> It displays the resolution it receives as an input, but it still has to scale to the native display resolution of the TV itself. So the only consideration is if the TV or receiver does a better job at scaling than the TiVo. For many but not all TVs the difference is imperceptible. High end TVs and receivers will do a better job in which case using Native output on the TiVo makes sense, but the price you pay is resolution switching will cause the picture and sound to wig out for a little while the TV adjusts to the new input resolution.


Whether TV or receiver does a better job at scaling than the TiVo is only a part of it. If you set Tivo's output resolution to fixed 1080i, and incoming signal is 720p, you'll have 2 conversions: 720p->1080i by Tivo and 1080i->1080p by TV/receiver. Theoretically, at least, that is worse than 720p->1080p directly, as the first conversion (forced interlacing) is losing some info, and the second is doing some guessing to make up for it, while direct conversion probably only does interpolation. Of course, your mileage may vary, depending on quality and size of you TV, how far you sit from it, etc.


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## Arcady

1080i and 1080p have the same number of pixels. There is no conversion other than showing both fields of each frame at the same time, instead of one after the other, which your 1080p TV has to do anyway to display anything.


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## slowbiscuit

I might not be that picky, but I've never seen a diff with 720p channels on my 46" 1080p Panny S1 plasma with Tivo set to either native or 1080i. There's just nothing that I can see that would justify having the lag to switch res for native. And I watch a lot of sports on the ESPN 720p channels.

With the crappy quality we get on a lot of HD broadcasts now, there's not a lot any TV can do to make it better. And I'm not talking about Comcast etc., it's strictly due to crappy feeds from the sources.


----------



## DubVBenz

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi Community,
> 
> We have made a few bug fixes to our 20.2.2 update, and are now making 20.2.2.1 available via the Priority List. (http://tivo.com/priority)
> 
> Here are some of the issues that have been resolved:
> 
> * Customers in Pittsburg were hearing Spanish instead of English on their ABC channel (WTAE). This issue also affected a limited number of other networks and shows and resulted in customers hearing "Audio Description" audio. It should now be resolved for all.
> 
> * Channel Logos have been restored in the Guide
> 
> * Some customers were hearing sound effects when pressing CHAN UP/DOWN in live TV. These actions should now be silent.
> 
> --Margret


Is this no longer active? Link says there is nothing available.


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## morac

DubVBenz said:


> Is this no longer active? Link says there is nothing available.


That's because the software has been released to everyone.


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## PedjaR

Arcady said:


> 1080i and 1080p have the same number of pixels. There is no conversion other than showing both fields of each frame at the same time, instead of one after the other, which your 1080p TV has to do anyway to display anything.


That is not nearly as simple as you think. You may want to read up a bit on deinterlacing. Just a couple of quotes from the easiest source to find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing

_Deinterlacing has been researched for decades and employs complex processing algorithms; however, consistent results have been very hard to achieve.

Yves Faroudja, the founder of Faroudja Labs and Emmy Award winner for his achievements in deinterlacing technology, has stated that "interlace to progressive does not work"._


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## Arcady

Whether de-interlacing is hard to achieve or not, an LCD screen must do this in order to display an interlaced source. In other words, when you feed your TV 1080i, it must de-interlace in order to display that signal on your 1080p panel.

So the only question is whether your TV or your TiVo convert from other resolutions to 1080p better. In the three setups I currently have running on different models of TV that are all 1080p, I can see no visual improvement by running native and letting the TV convert the signal on its own vs. setting the TiVo to 1080i and letting the TV de-interlace that to 1080p. On other equipment this may not be the case. But if you can't tell the difference, then why go through the pain of having the screen constantly blank out when it switches resolutions?


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## compnurd

My TV switches resolutions rather quickly


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## rainwater

compnurd said:


> My TV switches resolutions rather quickly


That is because over the years, resolution switching has improved in each generation of hdtvs. My latest LG switches really fast as well but my old Samsung takes ages.


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## PedjaR

Arcady said:


> Whether de-interlacing is hard to achieve or not, an LCD screen must do this in order to display an interlaced source. In other words, when you feed your TV 1080i, it must de-interlace in order to display that signal on your 1080p panel.
> 
> So the only question is whether your TV or your TiVo convert from other resolutions to 1080p better. In the three setups I currently have running on different models of TV that are all 1080p, I can see no visual improvement by running native and letting the TV convert the signal on its own vs. setting the TiVo to 1080i and letting the TV de-interlace that to 1080p. On other equipment this may not be the case. But if you can't tell the difference, then why go through the pain of having the screen constantly blank out when it switches resolutions?


Of course when cable signal is 1080i, then fixed 1080i is the same as native, and TV must do deinterlacing. My point was that if the cable signal was 720p, and Tivo just pass it on (which happens when you run native) then your TV does not need to do the deinterlacing, but if you make Tivo convert 720p to 1080i, it does, and needlessly so.
Now if you can not see the difference, of course it makes sense to run fixed 1080i. But some of us can see the difference.


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## Arcady

When the cable signal is 720p and you run native, your TV needs to upconvert to 1080p. There's always going to be conversion of the signal somewhere, unless you have 1080p content.


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## PedjaR

Arcady said:


> When the cable signal is 720p and you run native, your TV needs to upconvert to 1080p. There's always going to be conversion of the signal somewhere, unless you have 1080p content.


Yes, but 
1) Native: 720p -> 1080p is one upconvert.
2) Fixed 1080i: 720p ->1080i -> 1080p is upconvert + interlacing + deinterlacing.

2) is much more work (and probably more complex work) than 1), and is noticeable for some people/video setups. That's all I'm saying.


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## Marc

morac said:


> That's because the software has been released to everyone.


I hope I'll see it on my Premiere XL soon. Getting descriptive audio on the local ABC channel is disappointing.


----------



## chrispitude

proudx said:


> Since the fall update channel changing using up and down channel buttons is very sluggish and slow.
> 
> http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=11050449
> 
> talk about it in this forum as well. I placed a ticket file ticket # 121217-007992. If you experience this problem you are encouraged to place a ticket with support.


I have the same problem. I also opened a ticket with support.


----------



## CharlesH

atmuscarella said:


> All TVs have a fixed output resolution you are talking about input resolution. When your TV gets a signal it converts it to the TVs fixed output resolution (the TVs native resolution)


CRTs (remember them?) could actually output various resolutions and frame rates. Just aim that electron beam at the screen let it go. But flat screens (LCD, Plasma) have a fixed layout of physical pixel elements that are scanned at a hardware-determined rate. So if you have content coming in at a particular resolution and frame rate, then the conversion to the physical requirements of the display will be done _somewhere_. This can be your TiVo, an A/V box, or the TV itself.


----------



## Bierboy

TiVoMargret said:


> * Channel Logos have been restored in the Guide....


Is this the channel logo at the top of the guide (for the channel that is tuned)? Or are there supposed to be channel logos to the left of each channel number on the grid guide? (I don't use the TiVo guide)...

I just got a Premiere, so I don't know what it "used" to look like...


----------



## wmcbrine

CharlesH said:


> CRTs (remember them?) could actually output various resolutions and frame rates. Just aim that electron beam at the screen let it go. But flat screens (LCD, Plasma) have a fixed layout of physical pixel elements that are scanned at a hardware-determined rate.


Yes. Except, it's even more complicated than that... because, if you look closely at a color CRT screen, it's still made up of pixels -- tiny clusters of red, green and blue dots. It's just that, rather than addressing those dots individually in a digital fashion, the TV lights them up using its electron gun, analog-style.

Only with a monochrome CRT do you truly get a pixel-less experience.

(BTW, "pixel" = picture element, so "pixel element" is redundant.)


----------



## Arcady

wmcbrine said:


> if you look closely at a color CRT screen, it's still made up of pixels -- tiny clusters of red, green and blue dots.


Unless you bought a good TV like a Sony Trinitron that used red green and blue bars laid out side by side, rather than the crummy dot clusters on some POS like a Zenith.


----------



## wmcbrine

Arcady said:


> Unless you bought a good TV like a Sony Trinitron that used red green and blue bars laid out side by side, rather than the crummy dot clusters on some POS like a Zenith.


Trinitrons still have a fixed horizontal resolution (just not a vertical one).


----------



## Arcady

I didn't say otherwise.


----------



## unitron

Arcady said:


> Unless you bought a good TV like a Sony Trinitron that used red green and blue bars laid out side by side, rather than the crummy dot clusters on some POS like a Zenith.


Those are just rectangular dots.


----------



## sakaike

morac said:


> That's because the software has been released to everyone.


Not quite everyone. I still don't have it, even after a forced connection this morning. And before anyone asks, no pending restart either...


----------



## JandS

Our XL2 (which at this point is only connected to network every 10 days to get updates) got the update several days ago, while the XL4 which is constantly connected has not gotten the update in spite of at least 10 soft resets from the Help menu and 3x power pulling sessions.


----------



## ItsRounder

Is the bug where if I'm watching a live show and decide to hit record that it will skip to the start of the buffer as soon as the current live recording stops known by TiVo or should I contact them about this? Is this the same problem listed as number 121204015104 by sea7kenp?


----------



## TVCricket

Ever since the update, my Season Pass for Seinfeld hasn't been recording all of the episodes. I have it set to All and Reruns. Under Conflicts, it lists none. The episodes haven't been recorded the last 30 days. So why doesn't the Premiere record them? Really stinks having to go through the Guide and manually setting recordings. Don't want to set the Season Pass to Record Everything because I don't want duplicates. Is there a reason this is happening?


----------



## innocentfreak

TVCricket said:


> Ever since the update, my Season Pass for Seinfeld hasn't been recording all of the episodes. I have it set to All and Reruns. Under Conflicts, it lists none. The episodes haven't been recorded the last 30 days. So why doesn't the Premiere record them? Really stinks having to go through the Guide and manually setting recordings. Don't want to set the Season Pass to Record Everything because I don't want duplicates. Is there a reason this is happening?


What does history say?


----------



## TVCricket

What do you mean? All that lists is episodes that were deleted or are duplicates of episodes. None of the episodes I want the Season Pass to record have aired in the last 30 days.


----------



## innocentfreak

TVCricket said:


> Ever since the update, my Season Pass for Seinfeld hasn't been recording all of the episodes. I have it set to All and Reruns. Under Conflicts, it lists none. The episodes haven't been recorded the last 30 days. So why doesn't the Premiere record them? Really stinks having to go through the Guide and manually setting recordings. Don't want to set the Season Pass to Record Everything because I don't want duplicates. Is there a reason this is happening?





TVCricket said:


> What do you mean? All that lists is episodes that were deleted or are duplicates of episodes. None of the episodes I want the Season Pass to record have aired in the last 30 days.


So which is it? In your first post, you say the episodes haven't been recorded in the last 30 days and you are having to manually set them. In your followup post, you say none of the episodes have aired in the last 30 days that you want to record.


----------



## TVCricket

No, what I'm saying is that the Premiere seems to think that these episodes have aired in the last 30 days when they haven't. This problem goes back 2-3 months. If I set the Season Pass to New & Reruns, it only records Seinfeld episodes that air at 6pm on weekdays. There are 3 other times that they air 11pm on weekdays and 7/7:30pm on Saturdays. If I set it to record Everything, then it records those 3 other times.

The reason that I know is because I manually set every episode for the last month to test it out. Based on the Tivo's 28 day air rule, shouldn't all episodes begin recording again? There are episodes coming up that I know I haven't seen since maybe September, yet it refuses to Auto-record them. I'm on OTA only. Didn't have this problem before the HD-UI update was finished.


----------



## innocentfreak

And if you go into To Do List, why does it say those episodes won't be recorded?


----------



## TVCricket

"Currently there are no shows scheduled to record that conflict with other shows that are also scheduled to record."

The specific episode after I just turned the Season Pass back to New & Reruns doesn't even show up on the ToDo List when I keep pressing C until it shows ALL.


----------



## innocentfreak

If you just updated the season pass it can take a bit before it rebuilds the to do list with new episodes.


----------



## cherry ghost

All the airings are on the same channel?

I'd delete the Season Pass and recreate it.


----------



## ItsRounder

sea7kenp said:


> This is the one where "orphaned data streams" are discarded prematurely, with TiVo "jerking" you to the start of the new program, now recording. I've been experimenting with this since it started, noting that, if there's only a short time remaining in the "orphaned data stream" (meaning previous show, with the time intact that you'd hit pause), everything's ok.
> 
> My suspicion is that this has to do with if "local commercials" were in the time-span between where you are, in your viewing, and the start of the new recording. In other words, Comcast might have placed their OWN "important announcements" inside this time span. And, if that's the case, TiVo loses your place.


I've had this issue a number of times but I'm still not clear on how to reproduce it. I'm not sure what you mean by local commercials causing the problem either. What exactly is required for the TiVo to skip the current finished recording and jump to the start of the next show?


----------



## TVCricket

cherry ghost said:


> All the airings are on the same channel?
> 
> I'd delete the Season Pass and recreate it.


Yes, they are all on the same channel. Tried removing the Season Pass, then adding it again, but it still does the same thing. I even put it at #1 in the Priority List, but only schedules to record the 6pm episodes.


----------



## morac

Here's a weird one. I was watching a recording in progress live. When it ended, the buffer showed that it went back into the recording, i.e. the recording ended at 12:02 PM, but the buffer went back to 11:32 PM. I couldn't rewind back into the buffer though, I could only rewind as far back as to when the recording stopped.


----------



## L David Matheny

TVCricket said:


> Yes, they are all on the same channel. Tried removing the Season Pass, then adding it again, but it still does the same thing. I even put it at #1 in the Priority List, but only schedules to record the 6pm episodes.


If you "set the Season Pass to New & Reruns" (as you said), the TiVo will not record the same episode more than once within the 28-day guide window, and of course it will not record it again if it's already in My Shows. If you want all showings to record, you have to set it that way in the season pass. Am I missing something? Are you saying that the episode numbers are different, yet it is only choosing to record one episode?


----------



## chrispitude

morac said:


> Here's a weird one. I was watching a recording in progress live. When it ended, the buffer showed that it went back into the recording, i.e. the recording ended at 12:02 PM, but the buffer went back to 11:32 PM. I couldn't rewind back into the buffer though, I could only rewind as far back as to when the recording stopped.


If it showed a buffer bar at the bottom but it was inaccessible for you to rewind into, to my thinking that is a bug. If it's inaccessible for any reason, it shouldn't be shown as a buffer.


----------



## chrispitude

sea7kenp said:


> Thank you, David. TiVo probably doesn't think it's "discarding data" at all. In fact, it's the time shifting that's lost. In fact, thanks for giving me a way to describe this problem: "continuing the now-orphaned data stream until its end". I consider anything OTHER than that to be a Bug.
> 
> Thank you and best regards,
> 
> Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


This just bit us too. My wife and I were watching a live TV show that was on from 3pm to 4pm. It wasn't being explicitly recorded, we simply came across it live and found it interesting. We fell behind a bit because we had to pause to tend to our toddler. At 4pm, both tuners had to record something else, but we were still "behind" in our program (around 3:50pm). However, the TiVo discarded what we were watching and pushed us into one of the new live TV streams. We missed the ending of the show - very frustrating.

The new Netflix and Youtube apps were bad enough. But now, between this and the slow channel changes, the updates are breaking very basic functionality that has worked for many years.


----------



## ItsRounder

chrispitude said:


> This just bit us too. My wife and I were watching a live TV show that was on from 3pm to 4pm. It wasn't being explicitly recorded, we simply came across it live and found it interesting. We fell behind a bit because we had to pause to tend to our toddler. At 4pm, both tuners had to record something else, but we were still "behind" in our program (around 3:50pm). However, the TiVo discarded what we were watching and pushed us into one of the new live TV streams. We missed the ending of the show - very frustrating.


I've seen this happen a few times but I'm unable to make it happen intentionally. I contacted TiVo support and they seem completely unaware of this particular bug and I can't tell them what makes the bug show up. When I get the chance I'll try to set up both tuners to be recording shows immediately following a show that I'll start a recording manually and then let it fall behind by 45 minutes to see if that triggers the bug.


----------



## chrispitude

ItsRounder said:


> I've seen this happen a few times but I'm unable to make it happen intentionally. I contacted TiVo support and they seem completely unaware of this particular bug and I can't tell them what makes the bug show up. When I get the chance I'll try to set up both tuners to be recording shows immediately following a show that I'll start a recording manually and then let it fall behind by 45 minutes to see if that triggers the bug.


I was able to reproduce it. I scheduled two shows to record at 3:30pm, then watched a live TV show at 3pm that I paused for 10 minutes to build up a buffer. At 3:30pm, it yanked me away from what I was watching to show me one of the recorded shows.

Looks like I'm opening another support ticket... (Edit: opened ticket 121227-007248).


----------



## TVCricket

L David Matheny said:


> If you "set the Season Pass to New & Reruns" (as you said), the TiVo will not record the same episode more than once within the 28-day guide window, and of course it will not record it again if it's already in My Shows. If you want all showings to record, you have to set it that way in the season pass. Am I missing something? Are you saying that the episode numbers are different, yet it is only choosing to record one episode?


If you go back to my previous posts, I state that none of the episodes are already recorded or have aired in the last 28 days. I know this because for the last month, I manually added every airing that it would not record. After 31 days, technically it should start recording everything again since the 28 day rule is over. Even the episodes I deleted (I delete them after watching them) are not ones that aren't being recorded now. Last month the majority of episodes were from seasons 1-3, this month they're pretty much all from seasons 6-8. Something's obviously wrong.


----------



## L David Matheny

TVCricket said:


> No, what I'm saying is that the Premiere seems to think that these episodes have aired in the last 30 days when they haven't. This problem goes back 2-3 months. If I set the Season Pass to New & Reruns, it only records Seinfeld episodes that air at 6pm on weekdays. There are 3 other times that they air 11pm on weekdays and 7/7:30pm on Saturdays. If I set it to record Everything, then it records those 3 other times.
> 
> The reason that I know is because I manually set every episode for the last month to test it out. Based on the Tivo's 28 day air rule, shouldn't all episodes begin recording again? There are episodes coming up that I know I haven't seen since maybe September, yet it refuses to Auto-record them. I'm on OTA only. Didn't have this problem before the HD-UI update was finished.


I'm seeing something similar. (I'm OTA-only, SDUI, got fall update at time of full release.) I noticed that Saturday Night Live wasn't scheduled to record, so I checked Recording History, and it showed the "same episode appears" message for both channels that carry the show, but SNL doesn't appear in To Do or My Shows (except Recently Deleted, and those are different episodes). The episodes that should record were first aired more than a month ago. The season passes (one for each channel) specify "New & Reruns". The SNL shows are listed in the guide (via the Guide button) and in Upcoming Episodes, but interestingly "Saturday Night Live" doesn't appear in a Search by Title. GC, indexing, etc, all appear to be timely. I recorded last Saturday's show from the guide, but next Saturday's apparently will be missed also unless I do the same for it.

UPDATE: Since receiving more guide data over the last couple of days, my Premiere now has SNL scheduled for Jan 12, but for Jan 5 it still lists the "same episode appears" error for both channels (incorrectly it seems). And interestingly "Saturday Night Live" still doesn't appear in a Search by Title on the Premiere, but it does on my TiVo HD.


----------



## TTUGaryGregory

I am having the same problem when watching a "live" show not being recorded and it ending unexpectedly. I was watching the 10:00 pm new last night with about a 15 minute delay and at 10:30 I had a season pass recording start and the TiVo jumped to the show being recorded even if it's on a different tuner. And for the last couple of days my TiVo Premier is rebooting itself at least once a day. 

I doubt that the hard drive is the problem since it's less than a year old -- was wondering if this could be related to 2.2.2.1?

Thanks.


----------



## proudx

New bug from fall update. The zoom key that I use to exit menus and quickly close onscreen menus now triggers the channel banner with each push. Press zoom to clear banner and it disappears and comes right back.


----------



## compnurd

proudx said:


> New bug from fall update. The zoom key that I use to exit menus and quickly close onscreen menus now triggers the channel banner with each push. Press zoom to clear banner and it disappears and comes right back.


That is not a bug... That is how it is supposed to function


----------



## proudx

compnurd said:


> That is not a bug... That is how it is supposed to function


So before the fall update when I pushes the zoom button (exit key on remote) it would clear the channel banner. Now after the fall update Zoom
Will not clear channel banner? So what is the bug? The way it functioned before the fall update or after? I'd say zoom should clear channel banner just like zoom clears any other onscreen menu so it's a bug.


----------



## proudx

proudx said:


> So before the fall update when I pushes the zoom button (exit key on remote) it would clear the channel banner. Now after the fall update Zoom
> Will not clear channel banner? So what is the bug? The way it functioned before the fall update or after? I'd say zoom should clear channel banner just like zoom clears any other onscreen menu so it's a bug.


It's actually listed as the exit key on my ir codes


----------



## wmcbrine

"Zoom" does not, and has never, cleared the onscreen menus. That's what "Clear" is for. "Zoom" does two things:

1. Its original function: Switch between the different zoom modes, "Zoom", "Full", and "Panel". This is what it does when the video is full-sized.

2. When the video is in a small window, "Zoom" brings it back to full size -- zooming into it, in other words. (Exception: If you disable the preview window, "Zoom" still goes to live video. This makes for consistent behavior in one sense, but in another sense it breaks the metaphor.)


----------



## Arcady

The Zoom button on remotes used to be called Window. That almost makes sense on a modern TiVo, but who wants to use a Series 2 remote? And the button still does nothing on a Series 2.


----------



## proudx

wmcbrine said:


> "Zoom" does not, and has never, cleared the onscreen menus. That's what "Clear" is for. "Zoom" does two things:
> 
> 1. Its original function: Switch between the different zoom modes, "Zoom", "Full", and "Panel". This is what it does when the video is full-sized.
> 
> 2. When the video is in a small window, "Zoom" brings it back to full size -- zooming into it, in other words. (Exception: If you disable the preview window, "Zoom" still goes to live video. This makes for consistent behavior in one sense, but in another sense it breaks the metaphor.)


I have a window ir code too and that's different. This appear to be a discrete ir exit code


----------



## proudx

The exit key will close onscreen menus, including the guide, tivo menu, etc. However when pressing exit when the onscreen channel banner is up just brings it up again. Before the fall update the exit key would also close out the channel banner.

while the exit key is not found on the tivo remotes, there is a discrete IR code for it that has worked for years on my universal mx-800 remote. It has tradionally functioned to bring you out of recordings, onscreen, menus, etc. AFter the fall update the key no longer clears the channel banner.

placed ticket for this new bug now: 130107-008419


----------



## MichaelK

I vaguely recall the "exit" button was on an early remote- perhaps the original directivo remote? (of course could be my mind playing tricks on me...)

edit: yep olf directivo remotes had an exit button. http://www.amazon.com/Authentic-DirecTV-Series-Replacement-Remote/dp/B001ANZTX4


----------



## Bierboy

Exit command is still there with the S3 device...which is what I'm using with all my XL4 activities on my Harmony One....


----------



## leiff

I've mentioned the following bug a couple of times here:
"Can not erase entire folder while viewing contents of said folder. "
Maybe I'm one of the few people who this negatively effects but I find this extremely annoying. I sent email to Margaret from tivo but has anyone "opened a ticket" for this? I admittedly don't know what that phrase means but anything I can do do fix bug I'd like to do if any one wants to tell me how to do this.


----------



## innocentfreak

leiff said:


> I've mentioned the following bug a couple of times here:
> "Can not erase entire folder while viewing contents of said folder. "
> Maybe I'm one of the few people who this negatively effects but I find this extremely annoying. I sent email to Margaret from tivo but has anyone "opened a ticket" for this? I admittedly don't know what that phrase means but anything I can do do fix bug I'd like to do if any one wants to tell me how to do this.


It doesn't sound like a bug to me unless it is happening when no one is watching a program in the folder. It seems like a good design decision to stop people from deleting a folder with contents you are currently watching.


----------



## morac

innocentfreak said:


> It doesn't sound like a bug to me unless it is happening when no one is watching a program in the folder. It seems like a good design decision to stop people from deleting a folder with contents you are currently watching.


The problem is that when you play an entire group and finish, it doesn't exit playing the last video in the group. It simply pauses at the end. As such if you watch all the programs in a group and then go to delete the group, the delete will get "stuck" (gray x over the group, but nothing happens). You have to go to live TV first and then you can delete the group.


----------



## leiff

This is the way I use my Tivo. Watching a folder of shows at once and then deleting. This extra step of having to go to live TV all the time is bugging me if someone would like to open a ticket.


----------



## innocentfreak

morac said:


> The problem is that when you play an entire group and finish, it doesn't exit playing the last video in the group. It simply pauses at the end. As such if you watch all the programs in a group and then go to delete the group, the delete will get "stuck" (gray x over the group, but nothing happens). You have to go to live TV first and then you can delete the group.


gotcha. I never use watch all.

It sounded like he was trying to delete a group while a show was still playing from the group.


----------



## innocentfreak

leiff said:


> This is the way I use my Tivo. Watching a folder of shows at once and then deleting. This extra step of having to go to live TV all the time is bugging me if someone would like to open a ticket.


To open a ticket, you just need to call TiVo or file a support issue to TiVo through their website.


----------



## morac

innocentfreak said:


> gotcha. I never use watch all.
> 
> It sounded like he was trying to delete a group while a show was still playing from the group.


Technically it is still playing. Groups not "ending" has been a bug (or design flaw) since the HDUI was introduced. Previously you could delete groups with shows playing so the group not ending wasn't a big deal. Now you can't.

The real fix would be for playing groups to behave the same way as playing single recordings, but there is no "Delete group" prompt at the end of a group, like there is with individual recordings, so it really needs to be redesigned.

Another pet peeve of mine is how going into the HD menus while playing a group, breaks group playback and causes it to revert to single recording playback mode.


----------



## leiff

morac said:


> Another pet peeve of mine is how going into the HD menus while playing a group, breaks group playback and causes it to revert to single recording playback mode.


Yep that bothers me too. I finally noticed you can look at the live tv guide and it wont effect this but as soon as you go to menu's, you loose your auto folder playback


----------



## EntropyFox

I've experienced unusual behavior ever since the update and I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread (but it may be that I just don't know all the proper terms or acronyms)

It has to do with deleting shows. Let's say I want to go and clean up all the programs in the Suggestions folder. The folder may look like this:

> Show 1
Show 2
Show 3
Show 4

In the past if I wanted to do this I'd press the clear button and Show 1 would disappear and the cursor would then be pointing at Show 2. I'd hit the clear button again and Show 2 would disappear and the cursor would point to show 3, etc. However, over the past month or so if I delete Show 1, that gets deleted but at the same time the cursor jumps over to show 3

After Delete (Pre-Update):

> Show 2
Show 3
Show 4

After Delete (Post-Update):

Show 2
> Show 3
Show 4

It seems like a small thing but it makes for more keystrokes when deleting multiple programs. If I want to delete 5 programs in a row I used to be able to hit clear-clear-clear-clear-clear, but now have to hit clear-up-clear-up-clear-up-clear-up-clear

Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## unitron

EntropyFox said:


> I've experienced unusual behavior ever since the update and I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread (but it may be that I just don't know all the proper terms or acronyms)
> 
> It has to do with deleting shows. Let's say I want to go and clean up all the programs in the Suggestions folder. The folder may look like this:
> 
> > Show 1
> Show 2
> Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> In the past if I wanted to do this I'd press the clear button and Show 1 would disappear and the cursor would then be pointing at Show 2. I'd hit the clear button again and Show 2 would disappear and the cursor would point to show 3, etc. However, over the past month or so if I delete Show 1, that gets deleted but at the same time the cursor jumps over to show 3
> 
> After Delete (Pre-Update):
> 
> > Show 2
> Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> After Delete (Post-Update):
> 
> Show 2
> > Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> It seems like a small thing but it makes for more keystrokes when deleting multiple programs. If I want to delete 5 programs in a row I used to be able to hit clear-clear-clear-clear-clear, but now have to hit clear-up-clear-up-clear-up-clear-up-clear
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this?


Have you tried deleting 4 or 5 at a time starting at the bottom instead of the top to see how it acts?


----------



## Rodney

sea7kenp said:


> Thank you, David. TiVo probably doesn't think it's "discarding data" at all. In fact, it's the time shifting that's lost. In fact, thanks for giving me a way to describe this problem: "continuing the now-orphaned data stream until its end". I consider anything OTHER than that to be a Bug.
> 
> Thank you and best regards,
> 
> Ken Parker, Seattle, WA


I had this happen to me, and it is extremely frustrating. I should not have to hit record when I just want to watch what is in the buffer. Why they flush the buffer now when you have two recordings start makes no sense. Why did they change the behavior of the buffer?

I really hope this gets fixed, and soon.


----------



## slowbiscuit

*shrug* Or better yet, don't rely on live TV for anything you want to keep or watch later.


----------



## CoxInPHX

slowbiscuit said:


> *shrug* Or better yet, don't rely on live TV for anything you want to keep or watch later.


No it is a serious issue "bug" 
Even if you record a program but are watching it in the buffer at the end of the program it dumps you to Live TV even when nothing else is recording. to finish you must go to My Shows and fast forward to where you left off. annoying.

And if you are trying to watching two recordings back to back, but in the buffer you can't, the buffer will not transition to the next show on the same tuner.


----------



## Bierboy

CoxInPHX said:


> No it is a serious issue "bug"
> Even if you record a program but are watching it in the buffer at the end of the program it dumps you to Live TV even when nothing else is recording. to finish you must go to My Shows and fast forward to where you left off. annoying...


I agree. This happened to me for the first time yesterday. I got my XL4 about a month ago. Very annoying...


----------



## EntropyFox

unitron said:


> Have you tried deleting 4 or 5 at a time starting at the bottom instead of the top to see how it acts?


I tried various spots but it doesn't seem to matter if I'm at the top or middle or near the bottom: if I delete a program it both scrolls the remaining programs up *and* moves the cursor down resulting in a leapfrog of a program.

I tried switching my XL4 from SD menus to HD and back again but it didn't change anything.

It's a minor annoyance and not a serious problem. Early on I deleted a few programs I intended on keeping but I was able to retrieve them and eventually got used to the new quirk.


----------



## slowbiscuit

CoxInPHX said:


> No it is a serious issue "bug"
> Even if you record a program but are watching it in the buffer at the end of the program it dumps you to Live TV even when nothing else is recording. to finish you must go to My Shows and fast forward to where you left off. annoying.
> 
> And if you are trying to watching two recordings back to back, but in the buffer you can't, the buffer will not transition to the next show on the same tuner.


It's not a serious issue "bug" if you don't rely on the live buffer for anything important, either watching or recording. You can always watch the in-progress recording instead of the live buffer being recorded and have no issues. Use live TV for live TV and don't watch the buffer behind live for anything you want to keep, in other words. That's the point.


----------



## morac

slowbiscuit said:


> It's not a serious issue "bug" if you don't rely on the live buffer for anything important, either watching or recording. You can always watch the in-progress recording instead of the live buffer being recorded and have no issues. That's the point.


It breaks one of the basic functionalities (time delayed watching of live shows) of the TiVo box, so I'd call it a serious bug. Some people watch things "live" and now you can't pause shows since if you do the buffer might get dumped. I'd say 99% of what I watch is recordings, but even with that 1%, I've been bit by this.

Just because you don't use a feature, doesn't lesson the seriousness of a bug with that feature.


----------



## tomhorsley

OK, I'm sitting there watching the Patriots beating the Texans with about 4 minutes left in the game, and suddenly the TiVo reboots itself. I don't think the last update actually improved anything .


----------



## haplo888

I'm still having the problem where all my older recordings have lost their stored channel information with 20.2.2.1.

20.2.2 worked fine, but with 20.2.2.1 the recordings are using the current lineup info instead the stored channel information from when they were recorded.


----------



## haplo888

Is there any way to go back to 20.2.2?


----------



## atmuscarella

haplo888 said:


> Is there any way to go back to 20.2.2?


No


----------



## TVCricket

So I finally decided to re transfer all my old videos over after the new update broke grouping. I've been using a Metadata Generator app from the pytivo forum. In the metadata file that it creates, everything is correct (Show Title/Episode #/Episode Name), but the episode titles are the show titles when they are transferred over to the Premiere. What could be causing this?

http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/metagenerator-version-3-t1786.html


----------



## TVCricket

Figured it out. I deleted something in the settings and now it puts the file name in default as the episode title.


----------



## renee312

L David Matheny said:


> That is interesting. Obviously the data stream being sent out by the TiVo is not being discarded in the case of a recording, so maybe the bug is just that somebody decided to force a jump to the new channel whenever a channel change occurs. That makes no sense since a channel change affects what is being written to disk, not what is being read from disk. The output routine shouldn't care what channel the tuner is on. The previous behavior of continuing the now-orphaned data stream until its end is more logical and much more desirable. Maybe some programmer thought he had a better way to do something, but he hadn't thought it through sufficiently.


I would really like Tivo to address this, other than asking me to restart.


----------



## adam3914

morac said:


> It breaks one of the basic functionalities (time delayed watching of live shows) of the TiVo box, so I'd call it a serious bug. Some people watch things "live" and now you can't pause shows since if you do the buffer might get dumped. I'd say 99% of what I watch is recordings, but even with that 1%, I've been bit by this.
> 
> Just because you don't use a feature, doesn't lesson the seriousness of a bug with that feature.


I agree this is a serious bug, that ruins the basic functionality.


----------



## chrispitude

Rodney said:


> I really hope this gets fixed, and soon.


Please take the time to open a ticket. It won't get fixed unless enough people voice their displeasure.


----------



## slowbiscuit

adam3914 said:


> I agree this is a serious bug, that ruins the basic functionality.


If you count a live TV buffer getting dumped as 'ruining' the experience, sure. Boggles the mind why this would be so - it's called *live TV* for a reason.


----------



## CoxInPHX

CoxInPHX said:


> No it is a serious issue "bug"
> Even if you record a program but are watching it in the buffer at the end of the program it dumps you to Live TV even when nothing else is recording. to finish you must go to My Shows and fast forward to where you left off. annoying.
> 
> And if you are trying to watching two recordings back to back, but in the buffer you can't, the buffer will not transition to the next show on the same tuner.





chrispitude said:


> Please take the time to open a ticket. It won't get fixed unless enough people voice their displeasure.



Open a Support Ticket
Email margret at tivo.com
Email editor at tivo.com


----------



## Devx

morac said:


> Technically it is still playing. Groups not "ending" has been a bug (or design flaw) since the HDUI was introduced. Previously you could delete groups with shows playing so the group not ending wasn't a big deal. Now you can't.
> 
> The real fix would be for playing groups to behave the same way as playing single recordings, but there is no "Delete group" prompt at the end of a group, like there is with individual recordings, so it really needs to be redesigned...


I agree, it would be nice if instead of Tivo displaying 'all done' it provided an option to delete the group.

There are other workarounds to using live TV though to get group delete back. As you put it, the show is still playing which for some reason is tripping up the group delete. Selecting the specific show that is still playing and deleting that will allow deleting of the group. Or, and this is simpler, hiding the viewer window (by pressing slow) will allow deleting of the group. I suppose those 2 workarounds only work because they force Tivo to stop playing the recording.


----------



## leiff

Thanks for slow button hide preview window button tip, I'll give it a try


----------



## scoombs

TiVoMargret said:


> We have begun the full rollout of 20.2.2.1. (Note: there are limited zip codes that will stay at 20.2.2 for another month or so.)
> 
> --Margret


It has certainly been a month, but I am not sure if it has also been "or so" as well. As of last night I am still on 20.2.2 and am wondering if something is wrong, or if suburban DC/Maryland is even one of the magical zip codes affected?

On at least two occasions my Elite has done lengthy downloads/processing where I thought it might be updating, but it is still on the same version. Is anyone else not updated yet?


----------



## TVCricket

In my previous 2 posts, I asked about why my transferred shows weren't labeled correctly. I tried to finish off the last 2 series, but they aren't grouping. I checked the Metadata files and everything is labeled correctly, but each episode is created as its own show. Can anyone shed light as to why this is happening?


----------



## 241705

scoombs said:


> It has certainly been a month, but I am not sure if it has also been "or so" as well. As of last night I am still on 20.2.2 and am wondering if something is wrong, or if suburban DC/Maryland is even one of the magical zip codes affected?


The 20.2.2.1 update just downloaded for me this morning.


----------



## chrispitude

blackngold75 said:


> The 20.2.2.1 update just downloaded for me this morning.


I'm sorry to hear that.


----------



## lessd

blackngold75 said:


> The 20.2.2.1 update just downloaded for me this morning.


I have a non sub TP and I just turned it on (it had 20.2.2) and it updated to 20.2.2.1 so I think the big switch was turned on when TiVo is updating sub and non sub TiVos.


----------



## TZR916

My Tivo version says 20.2.2-01-2-758

Do I have 20.2.2.1 ?


----------



## shamilian

TZR916 said:


> My Tivo version says 20.2.2-01-2-758
> 
> Do I have 20.2.2.1 ?


no.

you have 20.2.2

version should be 20.2.2.1-01-2.758


----------



## PeteB

EntropyFox said:


> I've experienced unusual behavior ever since the update and I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread (but it may be that I just don't know all the proper terms or acronyms)
> 
> It has to do with deleting shows. Let's say I want to go and clean up all the programs in the Suggestions folder. The folder may look like this:
> 
> > Show 1
> Show 2
> Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> In the past if I wanted to do this I'd press the clear button and Show 1 would disappear and the cursor would then be pointing at Show 2. I'd hit the clear button again and Show 2 would disappear and the cursor would point to show 3, etc. However, over the past month or so if I delete Show 1, that gets deleted but at the same time the cursor jumps over to show 3
> 
> After Delete (Pre-Update):
> 
> > Show 2
> Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> After Delete (Post-Update):
> 
> Show 2
> > Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> It seems like a small thing but it makes for more keystrokes when deleting multiple programs. If I want to delete 5 programs in a row I used to be able to hit clear-clear-clear-clear-clear, but now have to hit clear-up-clear-up-clear-up-clear-up-clear
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this?


I have the same issue. It affects me when I try to clear out the deleted folder. I think it only happends with the SD menus, but not sure.


----------



## PeteB

CoxInPHX said:


> No it is a serious issue "bug"
> Even if you record a program but are watching it in the buffer at the end of the program it dumps you to Live TV even when nothing else is recording. to finish you must go to My Shows and fast forward to where you left off. annoying.
> 
> And if you are trying to watching two recordings back to back, but in the buffer you can't, the buffer will not transition to the next show on the same tuner.


This bug is extremely frustrating (along with the many others). TIVO, hire some real programmers!


----------



## morac

PeteB said:


> This bug is extremely frustrating (along with the many others). TIVO, hire some real programmers!


I've found the live buffer in general to be buggy in this release when programs are recording. For example, I saw the following the other day.

I record the Daily Show and Colbert Report which air back to back on the same channel. I tend to watch live, albeit delayed. When I'm watching The Daily Show and it switches over to starting to record The Colbert Report, the channel banner pops up, which isn't terrible. That happens all the time. In this instance I later held down the advance button to jump to the end and ended up in minute 40 of the 30 minute buffer. Yes, I was watching the Colbert Report, but the buffer and info banner said I was watching the end of The Daily Show. Swapping tuners back and forth fixed this.


----------



## oregonman

EntropyFox said:


> I've experienced unusual behavior ever since the update and I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread (but it may be that I just don't know all the proper terms or acronyms)
> 
> It has to do with deleting shows. Let's say I want to go and clean up all the programs in the Suggestions folder. The folder may look like this:
> 
> > Show 1
> Show 2
> Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> In the past if I wanted to do this I'd press the clear button and Show 1 would disappear and the cursor would then be pointing at Show 2. I'd hit the clear button again and Show 2 would disappear and the cursor would point to show 3, etc. However, over the past month or so if I delete Show 1, that gets deleted but at the same time the cursor jumps over to show 3
> 
> After Delete (Pre-Update):
> 
> > Show 2
> Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> After Delete (Post-Update):
> 
> Show 2
> > Show 3
> Show 4
> 
> It seems like a small thing but it makes for more keystrokes when deleting multiple programs. If I want to delete 5 programs in a row I used to be able to hit clear-clear-clear-clear-clear, but now have to hit clear-up-clear-up-clear-up-clear-up-clear
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this?


Same thing for me. I use SD menus. This new behavior is really annoying. It might seem like a minor thing, but it doubled the key presses needed to do a simple, common task. And it changed the behavior from intuitive ( Want to delete two things in a row: hit clear twice. ) to counter intuitive (hit clear, up arrow, clear). I do this daily to delete stuff from the suggestions folder.


----------



## morac

oregonman said:


> Same thing for me. I use SD menus. This new behavior is really annoying. It might seem like a minor thing, but it doubled the key presses needed to do a simple, common task. And it changed the behavior from intuitive ( Want to delete two things in a row: hit clear twice. ) to counter intuitive (hit clear, up arrow, clear). I do this daily to delete stuff from the suggestions folder.


Why are you deleting things from the Suggestions Folder? They will automatically get deleted to make room for your shows.


----------



## mattack

That's moot, since some of these weird behaviors (I'm pretty sure this one too) happen when deleting anything, not just a suggestion.


----------



## oregonman

morac said:


> Why are you deleting things from the Suggestions Folder? They will automatically get deleted to make room for your shows.


I know. If I'm in there looking to see if there is anything I might want to watch, I delete stuff that there is no chance I'll watch. That slows the exiration of older shows in suggestions that I probably wont watch, but who knows (If I think I want to watch it later, I move it out of suggestions). I also delete partial recordings. Heck, I'm already there and its only one key press per show. Oh wait - now it takes two key presses.

That brings up another thing I think has changed with the latest update. If a suggestion is recording and I stop it because I want to use the tuner to watch something else, the partial program stays in the suggestion folder. I'm almost positive that it used to be deleted from the suggestions folder. I like the old behavior better. If I stopped the suggestion recording, I don't want it saved.

Oh and I've mentioned this one before, but I used to be able to move something out of suggestions by going into the keep until menu and just selecting the default keep until date. Now I have to actually change the keep until date or it stays in suggestions. Another extra key press.

That makes three small changes that combine to make it harder to manage the suggestions folder the way I want. And I don't see any benefit from any of the changes. Please Tivo, change them back!


----------



## steve614

oregonman said:


> I delete stuff that there is no chance I'll watch.


If you are not doing it already, you should be giving these shows at least one thumbs down before you delete them.
It will improve your suggestions.


----------



## aridon

I cancelled about a year or so ago. Maybe a tad more. My premier was slow and borderline awful especially using the HD menus and half the UI was HD while the other half SD. 

Have things changed significantly since? Performance wise etc.? 

Thinking of coming back to cable and still have my tivo premier.


----------



## Arcady

Get the Premiere with the E on the end and it will work better.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

aridon said:


> I cancelled about a year or so ago. Maybe a tad more. My premier was slow and borderline awful especially using the HD menus and half the UI was HD while the other half SD.
> 
> Have things changed significantly since? Performance wise etc.?
> 
> Thinking of coming back to cable and still have my tivo premier.


All of the "regularly used" menus are HD now. To-Do List, Season Passes, Program Guide, etc. The only real laggard left is the Settings area, which isn't too big a deal.

Last January's update provided a decent performance boost. It's nothing to write home about, but it was enough to finally convince me to use the HD menus instead.


----------



## chrispitude

PeteB said:


> This bug is extremely frustrating (along with the many others). TIVO, hire some real programmers!


There are so many little things that have worked for many years but are now broken in this release. I have little hope that they will be fixed; take a look at the complete lack of progress or understanding for this obvious bug:

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=11050449

It's bad enough that TiVo has not been making the forward progress I wish they would, but it's even worse that they're taking so many small steps backwards while they're at it.

- Chris


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE

Arcady said:


> Get the Premiere with the E on the end and it will work better.


that made me chuckle


----------



## slowbiscuit

BigJimOutlaw said:


> All of the "regularly used" menus are HD now. To-Do List, Season Passes, Program Guide, etc. The only real laggard left is the Settings area, which isn't too big a deal.


And Wishlists, which is arguably more important if not more used.


----------



## chiguy50

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> that made me chuckle


+1:up:


----------



## unitron

Arcady said:


> Get the Premiere with the E on the end and it will work better.


It's like the TiVo guy on the front of the S2 540s, it keeps falling off.


----------



## aridon

BigJimOutlaw said:


> All of the "regularly used" menus are HD now. To-Do List, Season Passes, Program Guide, etc. The only real laggard left is the Settings area, which isn't too big a deal.
> 
> Last January's update provided a decent performance boost. It's nothing to write home about, but it was enough to finally convince me to use the HD menus instead.


Thank you for the info.


----------



## morac

Here's a big bug. I'm recording the Superbowl. I originally set it up to record an extra 30 minutes, but changed it to 60 minutes (from the My Shows screen) after the black out. Despite the buffer showing the additional 60 minutes (4:30 minute buffer), the recording stopped at 10:30 PM EST instead of 10:55 PM (for a total of 4 hours and 5 minutes).

That doesn't even make sense since it actually recorded an extra 35 minutes (instead of 60 or even 30).


----------



## CoxInPHX

morac said:


> Here's a big bug. I'm recording the Superbowl. I originally set it up to record an extra 30 minutes, but changed it to 60 minutes (from the My Shows screen) after the black out. Despite the buffer showing the additional 60 minutes (4:30 minute buffer), the recording stopped at 10:30 PM EST instead of 10:55 PM (for a total of 4 hours and 5 minutes).
> 
> That doesn't even make sense since it actually recorded an extra 35 minutes (instead of 60 or even 30).


I have had that happen a couple of times, I now only edit to extend the recording from the To Do List.


----------



## unitron

morac said:


> Here's a big bug. I'm recording the Superbowl. I originally set it up to record an extra 30 minutes, but changed it to 60 minutes (from the My Shows screen) after the black out. Despite the buffer showing the additional 60 minutes (4:30 minute buffer), the recording stopped at 10:30 PM EST instead of 10:55 PM (for a total of 4 hours and 5 minutes).
> 
> That doesn't even make sense since it actually recorded an extra 35 minutes (instead of 60 or even 30).


If it stopped at 10:30 PM EST, then it recorded an extra 30 minutes, not an extra 35, as the show was scheduled to end at 10:00 PM because Elementary was scheduled to start at 10:00 PM.

Sounds like it obeyed the original "add an extra 30 minutes" part and ignored the change to 60 instead.


----------



## cityboy72

Hello Margaret.

We own a Elite Series 4, and have had great use of it. Up to a few weeks ago an unexplained bug has creeped up, baffling tech support which has guided us through numerous troubleshooting steps to no avail.

The problem is at exactly 10:26 AM for 20 minutes our XL4 stops displaying recorded or live tv. However during this, we can view netflix video, view menus and settings etc, but no audio or video from live tv or recorded tv. Another strange thing if we press the record button it willl record the show so after the 20 minute time we can watch the show where we left off.

Any help you can provide us would be great.

Thank you for your help.

Mario
Philadelphia, PA



TiVoMargret said:


> Hi Community,
> 
> We have made a few bug fixes to our 20.2.2 update, and are now making 20.2.2.1
> 
> Here are some of the issues that have been resolved:
> 
> * Customers in Pittsburg were hearing Spanish instead of English on their ABC channel (WTAE). This issue also affected a limited number of other networks and shows and resulted in customers hearing "Audio Description" audio. It should now be resolved for all.
> 
> * Channel Logos have been restored in the Guide
> 
> * Some customers were hearing sound effects when pressing CHAN UP/DOWN in live TV. These actions should now be silent.
> 
> --Margret


----------



## gamo62

Arcady said:


> Get the Premiere with the E on the end and it will work better.


If that makes you warm and fuzzy at night, you keep telling yourself that...


----------



## compnurd

cityboy72 said:


> Hello Margaret.
> 
> We own a Elite Series 4, and have had great use of it. Up to a few weeks ago an unexplained bug has creeped up, baffling tech support which has guided us through numerous troubleshooting steps to no avail.
> 
> The problem is at exactly 10:26 AM for 20 minutes our XL4 stops displaying recorded or live tv. However during this, we can view netflix video, view menus and settings etc, but no audio or video from live tv or recorded tv. Another strange thing if we press the record button it willl record the show so after the 20 minute time we can watch the show where we left off.
> 
> Any help you can provide us would be great.
> 
> Thank you for your help.
> 
> Mario
> Philadelphia, PA


Mario,

You either need to email her or tweet her. Tivo does not monitor these forums


----------



## sldavis1952

Got the 20.2.2.1 update this morning.


----------



## tomsavell

CoxInPHX said:


> I am also seeing this and am not happy about it.
> 
> Does anyone remember if it was possible in a prior SW version to record the remainder of the Buffer after the next shows time-slot has started. I could have sworn I used to be able to do this?
> 
> Example rewind into the prior show and Hit Record, did that last portion of the show record. There currently is not an option to record.
> 
> Is this possible on a Series 3?


Yes, it was possible on previous versions. It changed recently when (apparently) the new software update was pushed to my Premiere

This boils down to intuitive behavior. When you press <Record> on Live TV, it should record what you are watching! It shouldn't produce a menu allowing you to explore season passes and other options, which is the new behavior if real time is already past the end of the show you're watching.

Even the previous behavior was a little non-intuitive, in that it would lump together two shows into one recording - the one you were watching that was in the 30-minute pause buffer would be in the same recording as the show that came after it. But at least it let you record it. Now it's worse, of course, but what it should have always done is record only the show you were actually watching according to the play position in the buffer.

And the sudden jump to the next show when the current recording ends is absolutely horrible. It's completely confusing to the person watching the show, and even if you do figure out what happened, it's a royal pain to get back to where you were. You have to go to My Shows and start playing back the show that was just recorded, then fast forward through the whole program to get to the place you were at.

Interestingly, I had a different issue that caused me to call TiVo phone support, and during the call I mentioned this problem. The tech support rep said he was unaware of it and also couldn't find anything about it after searching. So he told me he entered it as a new issue.


----------



## compnurd

tomsavell said:


> Yes, it was possible on previous versions. It changed recently when (apparently) the new software update was pushed to my Premiere
> 
> This boils down to intuitive behavior. When you press <Record> on Live TV, it should record what you are watching! It shouldn't produce a menu allowing you to explore season passes and other options, which is the new behavior if real time is already past the end of the show you're watching.
> 
> Even the previous behavior was a little non-intuitive, in that it would lump together two shows into one recording - the one you were watching that was in the 30-minute pause buffer would be in the same recording as the show that came after it. But at least it let you record it. Now it's worse, of course, but what it should have always done is record only the show you were actually watching according to the play position in the buffer.
> 
> And the sudden jump to the next show when the current recording ends is absolutely horrible. It's completely confusing to the person watching the show, and even if you do figure out what happened, it's a royal pain to get back to where you were. You have to go to My Shows and start playing back the show that was just recorded, then fast forward through the whole program to get to the place you were at.
> 
> Interestingly, I had a different issue that caused me to call TiVo phone support, and during the call I mentioned this problem. The tech support rep said he was unaware of it and also couldn't find anything about it after searching. So he told me he entered it as a new issue.


I do agree with. When you press record it should record, not pop up giving you options


----------



## mlippert

steve614 said:


> If you are not doing it already, you should be giving these shows at least one thumbs down before you delete them.
> It will improve your suggestions.


Actually, not necessarily. This has always been one of the things I wish could be improved. Whether I'd like a particular show recorded as a suggestion is completely unrelated to whether and how much I like that particular show.

For example BtVS gets 3 thumbs up from me, but I've seen them all, I own all of the seasons on DVD, and so I really don't want any episodes recorded as a suggestion. However, I would still like Tivo to recognize that I really like that show and therefore other similar shows are good candidates for suggestions.

Also just because I'm not interested in a suggestion right now doesn't mean I won't ever want to watch it in the future. I don't like to give a show a thumbs down unless I know it's really something I don't like.

In that same category I wish there was a low priority keep until (ie delete this before any other shows other than suggestions)


----------



## chrispitude

Can we come up with a list of all the bugs introduced by the 20.2.2.1 release? Here's what I know of:

1. The channel banner now updates very slowly when changing channels in live TV viewing.

2. Pressing 'clear' to delete a show in a list moves the current select down one entry too far after the deleted item is removed.

3. When you bring up the guide, you must press 'clear' twice instead of once to clear it.

4. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer and something starts recording on that tuner, you are forcibly pulled away from watching the remainder of the buffer. If that buffer was not explicitly being recorded, it is lost.

5. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer, the tuner has since moved on to a new program, and you press record to save the delayed currently playing program, the Record menu presents you with options to record the live unseen program instead of the delayed program.

Any others?


----------



## compnurd

chrispitude said:


> Can we come up with a list of all the bugs introduced by the 20.2.2.1 release? Here's what I know of:
> 
> 1. The channel banner now updates very slowly when changing channels in live TV viewing.
> 
> 2. Pressing 'clear' to delete a show in a list moves the current select down one entry too far after the deleted item is removed.
> 
> 3. When you bring up the guide, you must press 'clear' twice instead of once to clear it.
> 
> 4. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer and something starts recording on that tuner, you are forcibly pulled away from watching the remainder of the buffer. If that buffer was not explicitly being recorded, it is lost.
> 
> 5. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer, the tuner has since moved on to a new program, and you press record to save the delayed currently playing program, the Record menu presents you with options to record the live unseen program instead of the delayed program.
> 
> Any others?


On Number 3, maybe you need batteries in the remote. one clear clears my guide


----------



## chrispitude

compnurd said:


> On Number 3, maybe you need batteries in the remote. one clear clears my guide


Definitely two here, and definitely started the morning after the 20.2.2.1 remote:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAEfH2Naq6c&feature=youtu.be[/media]

When the guide is displayed, first Clear press reverts to channel banner, second press clears the banner. Remote batteries were replaced two weeks ago.


----------



## compnurd

Ah SDUI, dont use that... and the HDUI I believe has always done that. First clear takes out the guide, then the little banner shows up for 4 sec....

If that is not the way it is supposed to work i never noticed as when i had Direct TV prior it always did that


----------



## tomhorsley

chrispitude said:


> 3. When you bring up the guide, you must press 'clear' twice instead of once to clear it.


I find that pressing Guide again makes it go away.

Then, probably related to the blowing away of the buffer: If you are watching live TV on a channel that is about to start recording (i.e. watching the very end of the buffer in real time), there is now a huge black screen/no audio pause just as the recording starts.


----------



## sldavis1952

Just noticed that my series 2 doesn't show up in My Shows on my Premiere.
Checked my Series 2 and the Premiere doesn't show up in the NPL. I'm that 2 days ago the series 2 appeared in My Shows.


sldavis1952 said:


> Got the 20.2.2.1 update this morning.


----------



## chrispitude

tomhorsley said:


> I find that pressing Guide again makes it go away.


Tom, are you using the SD or HD interface? If SD, are you saying your Premiere behaves differently than the behavior mine shows in the video?


----------



## tomhorsley

chrispitude said:


> Tom, are you using the SD or HD interface? If SD, are you saying your Premiere behaves differently than the behavior mine shows in the video?


I'm using HD.


----------



## pspens

shamilian said:


> no.
> 
> you have 20.2.2
> 
> version should be 20.2.2.1-01-2.758


My Tivo Premier 4 shows 20.2.2.1-01-2.750. What's up with that?


----------



## wmcbrine

pspens said:


> My Tivo Premier 4 shows 20.2.2.1-01-2.750. What's up with that?


Those last three digits are just the model number (same as the first three digits of your TSN).


----------



## Mike-Wolf

Hello, I have a question regarding the channel logo issue. I've noticed for the longest time over the past three years that either the channel logos are incorrect or simply missing all together. I've filed a number of complaints addressing this problem with technical support which simply tell me it will be looked into and when I call back months and years later that it gets bounced to tribune media which I am told is the guide data provider, and they reply that there isn't a problem or that it's Comcast's problem and the ticket is closed. Comcast says it has nothing to do with them because all the channels are physically correct and the guide data is correct, and that it's just the logo graphic that is the problem. I truly want to get this problem resolved because messes with the aesthetics of the TiVo Premiere and frankly if the logos are going to be wrong (such as The Hub still using the Discovery Kids channel logo three years after network rebranding) I'd rather there not be any at all. I was hoping the new software update would fix this but it did not. 
I'm also having a problem with the season pass manager list. I seem to have three items in the list that are blank with two checkmarks next to the numbers but there is no program name, no channel number, and I can't cancel it/delete it with the clear button on the remote. I've already restarted the TiVo via the menu, repeated the guided setup, cleared the thumb ratings & suggestions, and cleared program information & to do list. All without any success. Is this a known bug?


----------



## Mike-Wolf

beejay said:


> Let me guess since I've noticed an error that fits that description.
> 
> I subscribe to a weather channel download that is normally less than a minute long. The displayed length of the bar at the bottom is 36 hours long in that case. (New behavior.)


I'm on 20.2.2.1-0-3-746 and I noticed this problem with some of the videos I download. When I go to play it, the time in the scrub bar says 36 hours if a video is under 59 seconds long. Also notice that if a downloaded video is under 59 seconds long it is listed as "partial" ie 56 sec (partial). Also noticed that the scrub bar doesn't advance when it is saying "36 hours" although I'm able to fast forward and rewind.


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## Mike-Wolf

compnurd said:


> I do Native. Always have and Always will If the Channel is 720P, I want my TV set to that


The problem with that is the video "blankout" that occurs on the television when it itself is switching between the resolutions, this length of time being different depending on the television. If watching a lot of programming with different resolutions, it starts to become annoying fast.


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## compnurd

Mike-Wolf said:


> The problem with that is the video "blankout" that occurs on the television when it itself is switching between the resolutions, this length of time being different depending on the television. If watching a lot of programming with different resolutions, it starts to become annoying fast.


Yes it does on my LG which is older and takes longer but my newer sharp is very quick so it does not bother me


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## Mike-Wolf

compnurd said:


> Yes it does on my LG which is older and takes longer but my newer sharp is very quick so it does not bother me


cool. Just wanted to put it out there why others who may not have as fast of a refresh time as your newer television does may be given little other choice but to use a fixed resolution that's all


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## tomhorsley

My Samsung gets worse and worse the longer it has been plugged in. When it starts taking more than a minute to turn on the screen when I switch inputs to my PC, I usually find that pulling the plug for a few seconds makes it much more responsive (till the next time it starts getting slow).


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## johnhefley

Thanks!


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## mattack

Mike-Wolf said:


> To: TiVoMargret or any TiVo Executive


THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY A WAY TO CONTACT ANYBODY AT TIVO.

Call up Tivo, and/or email or tweet Margret personally (who AFAIK volunteers her time here).

Posting here WILL NOT GET ANYBODY'S ATTENTION.


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## Mike-Wolf

Thanks :up:


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## Bierboy

mattack said:


> THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY A WAY TO CONTACT ANYBODY AT TIVO.
> 
> Call up Tivo, and/or email or tweet Margret personally (who AFAIK volunteers her time here).
> 
> Posting here WILL NOT GET ANYBODY'S ATTENTION.


No need to YELL....


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## buff23

I still have not received the 20.2.2.1 update.

I'm currently on 20.2.2-01-2-xxx.

Is this still being rolled out to boxes? I have tried force connecting to the Tivo Servers, but still have not received anything.

Any help or information regarding this would be appreciated.


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## yawitz

chrispitude said:


> Can we come up with a list of all the bugs introduced by the 20.2.2.1 release? Here's what I know of:
> 
> 1. The channel banner now updates very slowly when changing channels in live TV viewing.
> 
> 2. Pressing 'clear' to delete a show in a list moves the current select down one entry too far after the deleted item is removed.
> 
> 3. When you bring up the guide, you must press 'clear' twice instead of once to clear it.
> 
> 4. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer and something starts recording on that tuner, you are forcibly pulled away from watching the remainder of the buffer. If that buffer was not explicitly being recorded, it is lost.
> 
> 5. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer, the tuner has since moved on to a new program, and you press record to save the delayed currently playing program, the Record menu presents you with options to record the live unseen program instead of the delayed program.
> 
> Any others?


As I reported in a separate thread earlier today: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=501845

In the old SD To Do list (which was also shown in SD in the previous HDUI version), when an upcoming recording overlaps another one by a few minutes, they will both record, but there was a clear indication that one or the other will be clipped. In the new HD To Do list, that indication is not shown.


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## Mikeyis4dcats

trying to determine if a change I noted today is from the update or a cable card issue.

Cox moved a channel last night, and our cable card didn't pick up the new channel programming. I called Cox before work to re-pair, and he had problems getting the hit to go through. I had to hang up and go to work before it was fixed. Came home, and while the programming is now all visible, it seems as though channel changes are slow - 5 seconds before image appears, although the banner appears almost instantly.

Anyone else notice anything like this related to the update or a cable card pairing issue?


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## proudx

chrispitude said:


> Can we come up with a list of all the bugs introduced by the 20.2.2.1 release? Here's what I know of:
> 
> 1. The channel banner now updates very slowly when changing channels in live TV viewing.
> 
> 2. Pressing 'clear' to delete a show in a list moves the current select down one entry too far after the deleted item is removed.
> 
> 3. When you bring up the guide, you must press 'clear' twice instead of once to clear it.
> 
> 4. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer and something starts recording on that tuner, you are forcibly pulled away from watching the remainder of the buffer. If that buffer was not explicitly being recorded, it is lost.
> 
> 5. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer, the tuner has since moved on to a new program, and you press record to save the delayed currently playing program, the Record menu presents you with options to record the live unseen program instead of the delayed program.
> 
> Any others?


The exit key no longer clears channel banner but rather keeps popping it up with every press in of it. The exit key is a discrete it key not found on the TiVo remote and is different than the clear key. I use if I exit from guide and menus.

Changing channels is very slow with current release.

I believe the performance of The Hd GUI has not improved and in my opinion is slower since the last update. None the less TiVo should consider the performance of The hd GUI an open issue

Thanks for making a bug list


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## slowbiscuit

Changing channels is not slow on my Elite, it's no worse than any of the HDs I had before it. The HD UI is way better than it used to be and a lot of good functionality was added last year.


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## compnurd

slowbiscuit said:


> Changing channels is not slow on my Elite, it's no worse than any of the HDs I had before it. The HD UI is way better than it used to be and a lot of good functionality was added last year.


+10


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## Mike-Wolf

Is anyone having trouble with the audio and video cutting out when going through menus, and even worse with longer audio dropout when Dolby Digital is turned on?


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## certainkaos

Mike-Wolf said:


> Is anyone having trouble with the audio and video cutting out when going through menus, and even worse with longer audio dropout when Dolby Digital is turned on?


Yes... having these exact problems. came here in a troubleshooting session to see if anyone else was having the same problem.


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## Mike-Wolf

certainkaos said:


> Yes... having these exact problems. came here in a troubleshooting session to see if anyone else was having the same problem.


Personally I found that if you change the audio output to PCM the audio dropout is more brief and sometimes less noticeable. I don't know if this is something new brought on by the new software version or a long term thing. I hadn't had my TiVo hooked up since September of 2011 so I missed the various software updates when they first came out. When I got around to setting it up again, it was in February and was hit with the most recent update (this one) right off the bat.


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## chrispitude

proudx said:


> The exit key no longer clears channel banner but rather keeps popping it up with every press in of it. The exit key is a discrete it key not found on the TiVo remote and is different than the clear key. I use if I exit from guide and menus.


Thanks proudx. What device has this exit key? Is this something on the slider remote?



slowbiscuit said:


> Changing channels is not slow on my Elite, it's no worse than any of the HDs I had before it. The HD UI is way better than it used to be and a lot of good functionality was added last year.


This problem is more accurately described as slow update of the on-screen channel banner. For a better description (and many confirmations) of this problem, see:

Dec 6 software updated - now very slow channel changing (TiVo Premiere XL)


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## chrispitude

Adding #6:

1. The channel banner now updates very slowly when changing channels in live TV viewing. (link)

2. Pressing 'clear' to delete a show in a list moves the current select down one entry too far after the deleted item is removed.

3. When you bring up the guide, you must press 'clear' twice instead of once to clear it.

4. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer and something starts recording on that tuner, you are forcibly pulled away from watching the remainder of the buffer. If that buffer was not explicitly being recorded, it is lost.

5. If you are watching a delayed live TV buffer, the tuner has since moved on to a new program, and you press record to save the delayed currently playing program, the Record menu presents you with options to record the live unseen program instead of the delayed program.

6. While fast-forwarding, the TiVo sometimes incorrectly skips forward several minutes or skips to end. (link)


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## Mike-Wolf

chrispitude said:


> Adding #6:
> 1. The channel banner now updates very slowly when changing channels in live TV viewing. (link)


I'm not seeing any delay with changing channels via the up and down channel buttons, so maybe its a cablecard or service provider issue some people are experiencing?


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## chrispitude

Mike-Wolf said:


> chrispitude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adding #6:
> 
> 1. The channel banner now updates very slowly when changing channels in live TV viewing. (link)
> QUOTE]
> 
> I'm not seeing any delay with changing channels via the up and down channel buttons, so maybe its a cablecard or service provider issue some people are experiencing?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> It's not a delay in channel-changing itself; it's a delay in updating the channel banner when pressing channel up/down repeatedly. The link contains a more complete description.
Click to expand...


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## slowbiscuit

chrispitude said:


> This problem is more accurately described as slow update of the on-screen channel banner. For a better description (and many confirmations) of this problem, see:
> 
> Dec 6 software updated - now very slow channel changing (TiVo Premiere XL)


Yeah and I don't see this on my Elite with Comcast - maybe it's a TA problem? Channel changes fast enough and banner clears quickly when I have that set in the menus.


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## slowbiscuit

chrispitude said:


> 3. When you bring up the guide, you must press 'clear' twice instead of once to clear it.
> 
> 6. While fast-forwarding, the TiVo sometimes incorrectly skips forward several minutes or skips to end. (link)


For 3, press guide again to dismiss it not clear. Always works.

For 6, enable 30-sec skip and don't use ff.


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## Bierboy

slowbiscuit said:


> For 3, press guide again to dismiss it not clear. Always works....


I never use clear/exit...I ALWAYS just hit guide a second time. I've used that action forever...



slowbiscuit said:


> ...For 6, enable 30-sec skip and don't use ff.


I know someone's gonna chime in here and say "But, I need my FF to see blah blah blah..." I probably use FF once or twice a WEEK since enabling 30SS several years ago...


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## weaver

I'll chime in and say I usually use FF because I prefer it. And, programmers are always screwing with the number of commercials in a break, so adjustment may be necessary with 30skip.

Maybe TiVo could just fix the problem.


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## certainkaos

Mike-Wolf said:


> Personally I found that if you change the audio output to PCM the audio dropout is more brief and sometimes less noticeable. I don't know if this is something new brought on by the new software version or a long term thing. I hadn't had my TiVo hooked up since September of 2011 so I missed the various software updates when they first came out. When I got around to setting it up again, it was in February and was hit with the most recent update (this one) right off the bat.


I am going with newly introduced. It was never an issue at my house and now we can hardly watch TV its so bad. Changing to PCM helps fix or hide the issue, but then I lose the sound I am looking for.


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## Mike-Wolf

chrispitude said:


> Mike-Wolf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> It's not a delay in channel-changing itself; it's a delay in updating the channel banner when pressing channel up/down repeatedly. The link contains a more complete description.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing that at all, it's literally instantaneous. Maybe it's a resolution setting? Weirder things have happened. My resolution is fixed at 1080i and 1080p.
Click to expand...


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## Mike-Wolf

Bierboy said:


> I never use clear/exit...I ALWAYS just hit guide a second time. I've used that action forever...


I also always just hit guide again to make it go away and for the life of me don't think I've used the clear button once this year.


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## Mike-Wolf

weaver said:


> I'll chime in and say I usually use FF because I prefer it. And, programmers are always screwing with the number of commercials in a break, so adjustment may be necessary with 30skip.
> 
> Maybe TiVo could just fix the problem.


I agree that I prefer using the FF feature as opposed to the 30 second skip for the same reason as you pointed out, that sometimes the commercials are of different lengths and either undershoots or overshoots. I'm not sure how TiVo could fix this issue since they don't control commercials. I do wonder why the automatic commercial advance feature found in VCR's aren't available in DVR's now. How it would work was it would record a program and earmark the black transition at the beginning and end of commercial breaks. Then when the recording is played back it would automatically fast forward at the first transition when entering the commercial break and play at the end of the second transition when exiting the commercial break and into the show.


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## weaver

Mike-Wolf said:


> I agree that I prefer using the FF feature as opposed to the 30 second skip for the same reason as you pointed out, that sometimes the commercials are of different lengths and either undershoots or overshoots. I'm not sure how TiVo could fix this issue since they don't control commercials. I do wonder why the automatic commercial advance feature found in VCR's aren't available in DVR's now. How it would work was it would record a program and earmark the black transition at the beginning and end of commercial breaks. Then when the recording is played back it would automatically fast forward at the first transition when entering the commercial break and play at the end of the second transition when exiting the commercial break and into the show.


The problem TiVo can fix is with FF sometimes skipping forward several minutes (to the next tick mark?) or to the end of the show. I haven't seen this problem, but it is what started this discussion.


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## Mike-Wolf

weaver said:


> The problem TiVo can fix is with FF sometimes skipping forward several minutes (to the next tick mark?) or to the end of the show. I haven't seen this problem, but it is what started this discussion.


I always thought each tick was at every 15 minute mark and if the button is held down it would go to the end of the program.


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## Bierboy

Mike-Wolf said:


> I always thought each tick was at every 15 minute mark and if the button is held down it would go to the end of the program.


That IS the way it's designed. But, apparently, a few people are having a problem with it skipping to the end *without *holding the button down....


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## Mike-Wolf

Bierboy said:


> That IS the way it's designed. But, apparently, a few people are having a problem with it skipping to the end *without *holding the button down....


yikes  well that is unacceptable.


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## MHunter1

Mike-Wolf said:


> automatic commercial advance feature found in VCR's aren't available in DVR's


Nowadays DVR providers get too much backlash from TV corporations who don't like viewers being able to fast-forward their commercials at all. So for now we'll have to use third-party programs like VideoReDo to manually remove the commercials ourselves at the end-user level.


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## Bierboy

Mike-Wolf said:


> yikes  well that is unacceptable.


I guess it is to the few people it's affecting. Perfectly acceptable to me because I haven't been affected....


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## Mike-Wolf

Bierboy said:


> I guess it is to the few people it's affecting. Perfectly acceptable to me because I haven't been affected....


Haven't experienced the issue either which is why I was so surprised that it existed for others.


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## drcos

The Premiere constantly outputs DD5.1 on the optical output, even for channels that aren't putting out 5.1...is this the Premiere or the software update?

And I get the sound dropout thing also, most pronounced when the video 'moves' from fullscreen to window or back.
The FF/REW all the way to the front or back of the buffer happens mostly on the MusicChoice channels.

Of course, these things happen to me. YMMV.


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## leiff

this bothers me too. While listening to music, if I zoom in or out of fullscreen I loose the song I was listening to. Playback usually jumps forward a couple tracks. Hopefully TiVo is aware and will fix.


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## pspens

Mike-Wolf said:


> Haven't experienced the issue either which is why I was so surprised that it existed for others.


I noticed you said the interface worked quickly for you; are you using SD menus? HD menus are a lot slower.


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## Mike-Wolf

pspens said:


> I noticed you said the interface worked quickly for you; are you using SD menus? HD menus are a lot slower.


HD menu. I've been a user of the Premiere since September of 2010 so I'm well aware of the speed differences between the SD and HD but I've always stuck with the HD. The HD menus are noticeably faster with the recent updates compared to how it was before in 2010. I do notice the issues that drcos and leiff have mentioned. drcos I'm seeing the same constant DD 5.1 signal on the HDMI as well so it's not just you.


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