# TB Brighthouse is at it again



## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

So for years I had a series 2 connected to a set top box in my bedroom and brighthouse DVR's in living room and kids bedrooms, at 20 bucks a pop. after too much wasted time doing that, I upgraded and bought 3 premieres and only had one set top box from BH and then got even smarter, bought my Roamio and two minis and returned the set top box.
As a result of getting the minis, took the cable cards and tuning adapters back to BH and was advised that as of May 6th 2014, they are moving 52 channels to SDV (switched digital video) and will need a box of theirs or one of their tuning adapters. I got rid of all the BH equipment on purpose and the only thing I have is their cable modem because it has 2 phone jacks. Now it seems as they are holding me hostage in the sense that if i want to view channels that I am paying for, i have to have their equipment in my house OR pay for useless service I cant receive. 
The worst of it being my only other option is satelite or OTA programming.

I think its time for a class action lawsuit here

Roamio Plus (Master)
3 x Premiers (2 retired, 1 sons room)
2 Minis (living room and daughters room
Tivo series 3 HD (retired)
Tivo series 2 with PLS (retired)
MoCA
CC: Cisco PK802
TA: Cisco STA1520
T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

truman861 said:


> So for years I had a series 2 connected to a set top box in my bedroom and brighthouse DVR's in living room and kids bedrooms, at 20 bucks a pop. after too much wasted time doing that, I upgraded and bought 3 premieres and only had one set top box from BH and then got even smarter, bought my Roamio and two minis and returned the set top box.
> As a result of getting the minis, took the cable cards and tuning adapters back to BH and was advised that as of May 6th 2014, they are moving 52 channels to SDV (switched digital video) and will need a box of theirs or one of their tuning adapters. I got rid of all the BH equipment on purpose and the only thing I have is their cable modem because it has 2 phone jacks. Now it seems as they are holding me hostage in the sense that if i want to view channels that I am paying for, i have to have their equipment in my house OR pay for useless service I cant receive.
> The worst of it being my only other option is satelite or OTA programming.
> 
> ...


You lost me. Why are we, BHN customer, filing a suit? To BHN's credit, they are the first to proactively work with Cisco to fix their tuning adapter problems. With that said I'm still frustrated by the restricted copy flags that severely limit my out-of-home downloading and streaming on BHN.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

And how much extra do they charge for a tuning adapter?


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> And how much extra do they charge for a tuning adapter?


Tuning Adapters are free.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

Yes, the whole copyright thing drives me nuts. I cant even download the programs onto my laptop anymore through the tivo software even though it is encrypted with my media access key. 
They dont charge any extra for a tuning adapter but thats not the point. What is the point is that I dont want Brighthouse equipment in my home and i feel thats my right and I shouldnt be told that I have to pay for service which i cant receive unless i have their equipment.
I know what your thinking, well you dont have to be a brighthouse customer and its true, but because some idiot from Cablelink (BH Contractor) decided the verizon fios wire was in his way so he cut it out from the pole to the house, Verizon wants to charge me 250.00 to set things back up which i refuse to pay and cant get BH to pay so its either BH, Satelite (not over my dead body) or OTA


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

sbiller said:


> Tuning Adapters are free.


Then there would be no basis for a lawsuit since there are no damages.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

so the fact that Im paying for service that they are refusing to provide all because i dont want their equipment isnt cause ?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

truman861 said:


> so the fact that Im paying for service that they are refusing to provide all because i dont want their equipment isnt cause ?


Look, I feel your pain. I'm on Time Warner Cable, and they have tons of channels on SDV. I don't like having to use a tuning adapter any more than you do, but they aren't shifting channels to SDV in order to punish you. There is a legitimate reason for using SDV (to free up bandwidth), and providing a free tuning adapter to you so that your TiVo will still be able to access SDV channels is a reasonable accommodation.

If it makes you feel any better, TiVo and the cable companies finally seem to be working the kinks out of the tuning adapters.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

truman861 said:


> Yes, the whole copyright thing drives me nuts. I cant even download the programs onto my laptop anymore through the tivo software even though it is encrypted with my media access key.


The encryption doesn't matter. The flag designates the show as "copy once". Which means once it's recorded to your TiVo it can never be copied again. (that initial recording counts as a copy) So regardless of encryption they cannot make another copy of the show. One potential loophole is they could allow you to move the show rather then copy it. However they'd have to lock the original while it transferred to prevent it from ever existing in two places at once. They'd also have to come up with a new encryption scheme on the PC. The one the use for TiVoToGo is not secure at all and would never be approved by CableLabs. They'd need a more locked down, end to end, system like the iOS app, where the downloader and player are all one piece of software. Even then they might get challenged by CableLabs since moving a file like that is sort of a loophole and has no precedent. Streaming to another TV/device is a similar loophole but the cable companies started doing it in their own equipment first so TiVo had precedent on that one.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

truman861 said:


> so the fact that Im paying for service that they are refusing to provide all because i dont want their equipment isnt cause ?


It doesn't matter what you "feel is your right", BHN can require you to have a tuning adapter. If they can make all of their linear channels work with your TiVo, with a tuning adapter, they are in compliance with FCC regulations.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

I held out on the tuning adapter for a long time on the same basic principle, but finally gave in (and now have two). Yes, they're a hassle to set up and it's another piece of equipment in the stack, but they're free, you can pick them up at a local BHN office without requiring a truck roll, and they allow you to watch those SDV channels.

I am curious, though, as to which new channels are moving to SDV in May. I haven't seen any letter or notice of this yet.


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

Once Comcast DTAs were free too. Now Comcast gets $2 a device. 
Also Comcast has introduced yet another cost this year: "Broadcast Recovery Fee" 
o'boy. They are very inventive and able to take away with one hand what
they give you gratis with the other hand.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

Tuning adapters would be great if they didn't periodically fail without warning, requiring power-off reboot, plus taking 20+ minutes to resync after power-on.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

randian said:


> Tuning adapters would be great if they didn't periodically fail without warning, requiring power-off reboot, plus taking 20+ minutes to resync after power-on.


These issues are largely due to how cheaply made they are. I'm not really sure that there is anything that can be done about that.


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## BHNtechXpert (Nov 8, 2011)

truman861 said:


> So for years I had a series 2 connected to a set top box in my bedroom and brighthouse DVR's in living room and kids bedrooms, at 20 bucks a pop. after too much wasted time doing that, I upgraded and bought 3 premieres and only had one set top box from BH and then got even smarter, bought my Roamio and two minis and returned the set top box.
> As a result of getting the minis, took the cable cards and tuning adapters back to BH and was advised that as of May 6th 2014, they are moving 52 channels to SDV (switched digital video) and will need a box of theirs or one of their tuning adapters. I got rid of all the BH equipment on purpose and the only thing I have is their cable modem because it has 2 phone jacks. Now it seems as they are holding me hostage in the sense that if i want to view channels that I am paying for, i have to have their equipment in my house OR pay for useless service I cant receive.
> The worst of it being my only other option is satelite or OTA programming.
> 
> ...


John,

We talked at length yesterday and I thought you understood your options here. The fact that you were able to move recordings previously had nothing to do with us. Your software was not adhering to industry standards and ignore the CCI bit (apparently). Nothing has changed on this end to cause your issues it is and has been the same configuration for quite some time.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

S2 TiVos are SD and record via analog inputs, so they do not know or care about CCI.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

truman861 said:


> They dont charge any extra for a tuning adapter but thats not the point. What is the point is that I dont want Brighthouse equipment in my home and i feel thats my right and I shouldnt be told that I have to pay for service which i cant receive unless i have their equipment.
> OTA


Because the CableCard in the Roamio isn't Brighthouse equipment too?

You'll find plenty of sympathy here regarding TA's and their track record of poor reliability and tuning failures. It seems the .1901 Cisco firmware that many MSO's are starting to push out may finally get the tuning reliability that TA's should have had from the beginning. What you won't find is much sympathy for the argument you're making.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

tatergator1 said:


> It seems the .1901 Cisco firmware that many MSO's are starting to push out may finally get the tuning reliability that TA's should have had from the beginning.


Does this new firmware fix the total TA failure problem? About 1/month or so my Cisco TA will silently fail and lose all tuning ability. This cannot be fixed by tuning new channels. The only recourse is to power off and reboot it.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

randian said:


> Does this new firmware fix the total TA failure problem? About 1/month or so my Cisco TA will silently fail and lose all tuning ability. This cannot be fixed by tuning new channels. The only recourse is to power off and reboot it.


I personally haven't had a total lock-up recently, but I've only been on .1901 for about a month. Probably not enough user data to give you an answer to that issue yet.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

windracer said:


> I held out on the tuning adapter for a long time on the same basic principle, but finally gave in (and now have two). Yes, they're a hassle to set up and it's another piece of equipment in the stack, but they're free, you can pick them up at a local BHN office without requiring a truck roll, and they allow you to watch those SDV channels.
> 
> I am curious, though, as to which new channels are moving to SDV in May. I haven't seen any letter or notice of this yet.


The announcement just came out yesterday to BH employees. I was returning two cards due to buying minis and was told about it then. They did say customers will be getting a letter about it.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

I understand from BHN expert (i guess thats the guy who called me yesterday) that BH is protecting the programing and doing what they are supposed to where as the other companys are not - xfinity, knology, verizon. I dont know. I really dont want to have a TA in my house and really dont feel I should have to but I guess theres nothing that makes me "special" So i will just have to bite the bullet and get one. Once again big conglomirate wins. 
Seriously thinking about paying the fee to VZ and moving to them. Do they use TA's with their cards ? Anyone know ?


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

truman861 said:


> I understand from BHN expert (i guess thats the guy who called me yesterday) that BH is protecting the programing and doing what they are supposed to where as the other companys are not - xfinity, knology, verizon. I dont know. I really dont want to have a TA in my house and really dont feel I should have to but I guess theres nothing that makes me "special" So i will just have to bite the bullet and get one. Once again big conglomirate wins.
> Seriously thinking about paying the fee to VZ and moving to them. Do they use TA's with their cards ? Anyone know ?


Verizon does not use SDV, so no TA's required. It is my understanding that the only channels they lock down from a CCI bit perspective are the premiums (e.g., HBO, etc. ).

Regarding BHN's use of the copy control flags, it is my understanding that the flags are negotiated separately by each MSO. It is possible that the transmission agreement that TWC/BHN have currently, does not permit copy freely flags on non-broadcast channels. The exact agreements are confidential.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

tatergator1 said:


> It seems the .1901 Cisco firmware that many MSO's are starting to push out may finally get the tuning reliability that TA's should have had from the beginning. What you won't find is much sympathy for the argument you're making.





randian said:


> Does this new firmware fix the total TA failure problem? About 1/month or so my Cisco TA will silently fail and lose all tuning ability. This cannot be fixed by tuning new channels. The only recourse is to power off and reboot it.


My 3 Cisco TAs are all still on F.1601 and I do not have any issues with the TAs. (Cox Arizona has 276 SDV Channels)

I regularly reboot my Tuning Adapters, (and TiVos), every 3 - 4 weeks and that seems to work for me. If I do go much beyond 30 days without a reboot, the Cisco TAs seems to lose their sync with the TiVo and/or headend.

The last TiVo SW Update, 20.3.8, dramatically improved the reliability of SDV tuning requests.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

sbiller said:


> Verizon does not use SDV, so no TA's required. It is my understanding that the only channels they lock down from a CCI bit perspective are the premiums (e.g., HBO, etc. ).
> 
> Regarding BHN's use of the copy control flags, it is my understanding that the flags are negotiated separately by each MSO. It is possible that the transmission agreement that TWC/BHN have currently, does not permit copy freely flags on non-broadcast channels. The exact agreements are confidential.


thanks


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

CoxInPHX said:


> I regularly reboot my Tuning Adapters, (and TiVos), every 3 - 4 weeks and that seems to work for me. If I do go much beyond 30 days without a reboot, the Cisco TAs seems to lose their sync with the TiVo and/or headend.


Exactly my point. I wouldn't call that "no problems". If you have to do manual reboots to prevent problems, you have problems.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

truman861 said:


> So for years I had a series 2 connected to a set top box in my bedroom and brighthouse DVR's in living room and kids bedrooms, at 20 bucks a pop. after too much wasted time doing that, I upgraded and bought 3 premieres and only had one set top box from BH and then got even smarter, bought my Roamio and two minis and returned the set top box.
> As a result of getting the minis, took the cable cards and tuning adapters back to BH and was advised that as of May 6th 2014, they are moving 52 channels to SDV (switched digital video) and will need a box of theirs or one of their tuning adapters. I got rid of all the BH equipment on purpose and the only thing I have is their cable modem because it has 2 phone jacks. Now it seems as they are holding me hostage in the sense that if i want to view channels that I am paying for, i have to have their equipment in my house OR pay for useless service I cant receive.
> The worst of it being my only other option is satelite or OTA programming.
> 
> ...


They are going to SDV so you can have more channels. You have only some many channel on the system. That depends on if it a 700 or 870 system. Once the system if filled they can not add any more. By going to SDV they can add the channels. What would you do if they did not go to SDV but their was a channel that you would want BH to add Without SDV it would be impossible to add With SDV I can be added. 
TWC has been using TA adapters for a long time.


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## BHNtechXpert (Nov 8, 2011)

truman861 said:


> The announcement just came out yesterday to BH employees. I was returning two cards due to buying minis and was told about it then. They did say customers will be getting a letter about it.


The letter to which you refer only applies to those customers in the Tampa market that have a cable card and no tuning adapter and only communicates that several channels are being moved to SDV and to continue receiving them you would need a TA, that is all. As channels move in and out of the SDV realm we send these to those who MIGHT be impacted. It is nothing new.

The vast majority of Tivo, Ceton and Silicon Dust units have tuning adapters and will not be impacted. The rest have legacy cable card televisions that won't interface with a TA anyway.


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## BHNtechXpert (Nov 8, 2011)

randian said:


> Exactly my point. I wouldn't call that "no problems". If you have to do manual reboots to prevent problems, you have problems.


I haven't rebooted my Tivo or TA in months....darn near a year to be honest and the only reason that happened was we had a power glitch that locked things up good...wasn't sure if it was the Tivo or the TA so rebooted both.


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## BHNtechXpert (Nov 8, 2011)

truman861 said:


> I understand from BHN expert (i guess thats the guy who called me yesterday) that BH is protecting the programing and doing what they are supposed to where as the other companys are not - xfinity, knology, verizon. I dont know. I really dont want to have a TA in my house and really dont feel I should have to but I guess theres nothing that makes me "special" So i will just have to bite the bullet and get one. Once again big conglomirate wins.
> Seriously thinking about paying the fee to VZ and moving to them. Do they use TA's with their cards ? Anyone know ?


You understood and yet created this thread? I find it puzzling that despite what appeared to be decent conversation about the facts as they are, have been a very long time and also that no changes on our part had caused you the problem you were having with moving content you still felt compelled to create a thread with the title and content you did.


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## BHNtechXpert (Nov 8, 2011)

sbiller said:


> Verizon does not use SDV, so no TA's required. It is my understanding that the only channels they lock down from a CCI bit perspective are the premiums (e.g., HBO, etc. ).
> 
> Regarding BHN's use of the copy control flags, it is my understanding that the flags are negotiated separately by each MSO. It is possible that the transmission agreement that TWC/BHN have currently, does not permit copy freely flags on non-broadcast channels. The exact agreements are confidential.


Correct Sam and thank you. This was discussed at length with John....


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

What we discussed was the CCI Byte. We didnt really discuss anything other than that as I had to get off the phone. 
That being said, I had a BH service appointment scheduled for this past Monday between 10 and 12 for poor signal quality, no suprise that not only did 10-12 come and go but so did the whole day. I never heard anything whatsoever, no one came to the door, no one called, just nothing. So as a result, after asking my opinions about Verizon, I have them scheduled for April 17th from 10-12am. I will be getting more channels, faster internet and phone, will just be using my one roamio plus and my 3 minis and saving approx 20.00 a month based on what I'm paying now. 
Best of all I dont have to pay the 250.00 hookup fee thanks to the idiot from Cablelink who cut out the verizon wires from the pole to the house as Verizon has to put in new wires for the fios. Lucked out on that. 

Returned one of my 2 cable cards and TA today and am down to just 1 card and 1 TA and my modem which I will deal with for 2 more weeks. 

Looking forward to the new changes I will have.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

and I understand the whole "We are doing the right thing by blocking copywriting with the cci byte" from Brighthouse, and I understand that the other providers are not "doing the right thing", but the way I look at it, If someone robbed a bank, dropped an open bag of money which started flying all around, Im not going to "Do the right thing" stand there and look, Im going to catch one of the twenties flying in the air. 
Bottom line, I see it as follows. I pay (in my opinion way too much) for my TV service. I bought the show, or the movie or whatever else came over. If I want to save it and put it on my Ipad or Galaxy Note so that I can enjoy later what I bought, - then I should be able to do it.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

You're not buying the shows, you are buying access to those shows. Big difference.
How the provider lets you access those shows is up to them. 
The only option is to find a provider that let's you access the shows how you want. Unfortunately, most folks don't have that option due to the virtual monopoly that the providers control.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

BHN/TWC have been doing CCI for a very long time. It's been vaguely blamed on programming agreements, but TWC/BHN (which for programming agreements are one company) is the only MSO that flags their entire lineup in bulk everywhere. Maybe they are getting preferential pricing for doing it, I don't know. Seems like a minor thing to get any discount for since it's so trivial to record HD digital content if someone is intent on pirating it.

It's a legacy left over from when BHN and TWC really were one company, and I seriously suspect it's left over from when Time Warner owned TWC, since Time Warner owned such a wide swath of content. And, what better way to deflect commentary over TW blocking their content on their own system than by setting the CCI Byte on every channel. And what better way to deny it than to say it's because of confidential programming agreements.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

I couldnt agree better Joseph, they dont take ownership - they just blame the other guy instead and inconvenience the ch. Its okay though, Counting down till April 17th. I know Verizon doesnt block programing like TWC and BHN


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## Jono0055 (Apr 10, 2014)

BHNtechXpert, maybe you can help. I have a brand new Roamio with the cable card installed & the Cisco TA attached, both married to the TiVo box appropriately according to Brighthouse in the Tampa area, but still can not get all SDV channels to tune. The techs can not figure out why. When they first connected it, HBO ch 1403 only worked. After troubleshooting, now only HBO ch 1401 & 1402 but NOT 1403 work. And none of Cinemax works or any other regular SDV channels. We have been at this for a week now. All of the channels work on my HD box from Brighthouse just fine, so it is not a signal issue. Any suggestions on how to get what I pay for through Brighthouse? This is getting so frustrating since no one seems to know what is wrong or how to go about fixing the issue. Thank you for anything you can offer.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

I could tell you whats wrong but BHNtechXpert wouldnt like my answer lol.

-----------------------------------------------------

Roamio Plus (Master)
3 Tivo Mini's (living room and kids rooms)
3 x Premiers (retired)
Tivo series 3 HD (retired)
Tivo series 2 with PLS (retired)
MoCA
CC: Cisco PK802
TA: Cisco STA1520
T.W. Brighthouse Tampabay - Moving to Verizon Fios


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## BHNtechXpert (Nov 8, 2011)

Jono0055 said:


> BHNtechXpert, maybe you can help. I have a brand new Roamio with the cable card installed & the Cisco TA attached, both married to the TiVo box appropriately according to Brighthouse in the Tampa area, but still can not get all SDV channels to tune. The techs can not figure out why. When they first connected it, HBO ch 1403 only worked. After troubleshooting, now only HBO ch 1401 & 1402 but NOT 1403 work. And none of Cinemax works or any other regular SDV channels. We have been at this for a week now. All of the channels work on my HD box from Brighthouse just fine, so it is not a signal issue. Any suggestions on how to get what I pay for through Brighthouse? This is getting so frustrating since no one seems to know what is wrong or how to go about fixing the issue. Thank you for anything you can offer.


Email me the following information to: [email protected]

Cable Card ID
Cable Card MAC
Modem MAC (so I can pull acct info)
Host ID
Tuning Adapter STB MAC (directly from the sticker)
TSN (Tivo Service Number) as I may need to contact Tivo on your behalf.

Once I get this I'll be in touch.


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## ahwman (Jan 24, 2013)

BHNtechXpert said:


> I haven't rebooted my Tivo or TA in months....darn near a year to be honest and the only reason that happened was we had a power glitch that locked things up good...wasn't sure if it was the Tivo or the TA so rebooted both.


I wish for the day when I don't have to power-cycle my TA every 3 days or so. I'm with BHN in SE Michigan and have been working with a BHN headend engineer and TiVo for months now, each blaming the other.

I've now replaced every single piece of equipment in the chain - TiVo, tuning adapter (Motorola - latest firmware), CableCard (Motorola - latest firmware) and all cabling. Signals checked from pole to the TiVo - all within spec. Every 3 days or so, all SDV channels will throw a V53 error message until I power-cycle the TA and the cycle repeats...

Very discouraging with no end in site...


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

ahwman said:


> I wish for the day when I don't have to power-cycle my TA every 3 days or so. I'm with BHN in SE Michigan and have been working with a BHN headend engineer and TiVo for months now, each blaming the other.
> 
> I've now replaced every single piece of equipment in the chain - TiVo, tuning adapter (Motorola - latest firmware), CableCard (Motorola - latest firmware) and all cabling. Signals checked from pole to the TiVo - all within spec. Every 3 days or so, all SDV channels will throw a V53 error message until I power-cycle the TA and the cycle repeats...
> 
> Very discouraging with no end in site...


Unfortunately you are not the only person who has had that problem and BHN isn't the only cable company that it happens on. Some people have resorted to putting some kind of a timer on the TA so that it reboots nightly at a time that no recordings are likely taking place, like 2am. It sucks, but it works for some.


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## ahwman (Jan 24, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Unfortunately you are not the only person who has had that problem and BHN isn't the only cable company that it happens on. Some people have resorted to putting some kind of a timer on the TA so that it reboots nightly at a time that no recordings are likely taking place, like 2am. It sucks, but it works for some.


I've already tried this, however it creates a new problem. About 30-40% of the time the tuning adapter gets stuck in hunt mode after a power-cycle and never syncs (blinking yellow light). When this happens, it requires a second and sometimes even a third power-cycle. I'm just absolutely stunned that we as consumers have to out up with this - all the while still paying both TiVo as well as the cable companies...


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

A data point of one... 

I'm on BHN in Tampa with my Cisco TA running PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1101 and my Roamio on 20.4.1. I haven't had a failed tune or a need to do anything with my TA for as long as I can remember.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

^^^ Correction to above

Cisco CableCARD Firmware
OS Ver: PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1101 is the latest Cisco CableCARD Firmware
OS Ver: PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601 works fine for me also.

Cisco Tuning Adapter Firmware
FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1901 is the latest Cisco Tuning Adapter Firmware
FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1601 is what I am running and works OK since TiVo SW Vers: 20.3.8


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

sbiller said:


> Verizon does not use SDV, so no TA's required. It is my understanding that the only channels they lock down from a CCI bit perspective are the premiums (e.g., HBO, etc. ).
> 
> Regarding BHN's use of the copy control flags, it is my understanding that the flags are negotiated separately by each MSO. It is possible that the transmission agreement that TWC/BHN have currently, does not permit copy freely flags on non-broadcast channels. The exact agreements are confidential.


So out of all the cablecos in the USA, only TWC/BHN have the flags embedded on every cable channel. I can't believe that networks have been negotiating this because if networks really wanted them, most, if not all cablecos would be this way. I seriously doubt that this is anything but TWC/BHN's way of screwing over people who use non-TWC/BHN dvr's.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

truman861 said:


> Seriously thinking about paying the fee to VZ and moving to them. Do they use TA's with their cards ? Anyone know ?


Verizon's a better home than Brighthouse for TiVo owners for sure. CCI flag is only set on HBO and there is no SDV tuning adapter mess.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

davezatz said:


> Verizon's a better home than Brighthouse for TiVo owners for sure. CCI flag is only set on HBO and there is no SDV tuning adapter mess.


Too bad FIOS isn't available in my area and I doubt it ever will at this point.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Verizon's a better home than Brighthouse for TiVo owners for sure. CCI flag is only set on HBO and there is no SDV tuning adapter mess.


Unfortunately, not an option for me in my current location either.

I've been lobbying our BHN representative to help get this issue resolved. I think I may give him a call to discuss some more. Perhaps a letter writing campaign to BHN management might help...

SDV at this point is a don't care because it seems to be 100% reliable for me with the latest Roamio update combined with the latest Cisco firmware. I have my Roamio and SDV TA tucked away in an AV closet so I don't really see (or hear) the extra equipment.


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

sbiller said:


> Unfortunately, not an option for me in my current location either.
> 
> I've been lobbying our BHN representative to help get this issue resolved. I think I may give him a call to discuss some more. Perhaps a letter writing campaign to BHN management might help...
> 
> SDV at this point is a don't care because it seems to be 100% reliable for me with the latest Roamio update combined with the latest Cisco firmware. I have my Roamio and SDV TA tucked away in an AV closet so I don't really see (or hear) the extra equipment.


I realize it may have been trivial for me to have an issue with an extra peice of equipment sitting on my entertainment center but my whole thing was the fact they are taking channels not currently SDV and making them SDV further requiring the neccessity to have that device on top of my roamio.

FIOS is avail in most of tampa, hope your able to get it very soon Sam, looking forward to it myself tomorrow.

Truman861


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

truman861 said:


> FIOS is avail in most of tampa, hope your able to get it very soon Sam


Unfortunately, Verizon stopped its FIOS rollout a while ago and has no plans to resume, so if you can't get it now, you most likely will never get it.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

sbiller said:


> Verizon does not use SDV, so no TA's required. It is my understanding that the only channels they lock down from a CCI bit perspective are the premiums (e.g., HBO, etc. ).


HBO and Cinemax only -- i.e. _not_ Showtime, Starz, etc.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

22 channels moving to SDV and 6 moving off. I watch quite a bit of 2 of the channels moving off of SDV.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/218859057/Bright-House-Networks-Tampa-SDV-Letter-April-15-2014


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

sbiller said:


> 22 channels moving to SDV and 6 moving off. I watch quite a bit of 2 of the channels moving off of SDV.
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/218859057/Bright-House-Networks-Tampa-SDV-Letter-April-15-2014


Other than Science HD, the rest look like SD flavors. It only hurts when there is only a SD flavor (I notice a few that way). I get the bandwidth differences, but in general I'm in favor of the SD variants being move to SDV to allow more HD to move into that space.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

jwbelcher said:


> Other than Science HD, the rest look like SD flavors. It only hurts when there is only a SD flavor (I notice a few that way). I get the bandwidth differences, but in general I'm in favor of the SD variants being move to SDV to allow more HD to move into that space.


The trick is, though, that the small little DTAs that they use for the all digital transition aren't compatible with SDV, they're like a CableCard TV without a tuning adapter. So, for all the analog-only customers, the channels in those tiers have to be non-SDV, meaning the SD, low tier channels will always be broadcast instead of switched.


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

JosephB said:


> The trick is, though, that the small little DTAs that they use for the all digital transition aren't compatible with SDV, they're like a CableCard TV without a tuning adapter. So, for all the analog-only customers, the channels in those tiers have to be non-SDV, meaning the SD, low tier channels will always be broadcast instead of switched.


Those little guys pump out HD channels just fine. They also push out 480i coax for those with old TVs. So how long does SD need simulcast?


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## truman861 (Jul 14, 2012)

sbiller said:


> Unfortunately, not an option for me in my current location either.
> 
> I've been lobbying our BHN representative to help get this issue resolved. I think I may give him a call to discuss some more. Perhaps a letter writing campaign to BHN management might help...
> 
> SDV at this point is a don't care because it seems to be 100% reliable for me with the latest Roamio update combined with the latest Cisco firmware. I have my Roamio and SDV TA tucked away in an AV closet so I don't really see (or hear) the extra equipment.


So here is an update, Had fios installed yesterday, (so nice not having the TA sitting on top anymore) and turns out I had a real tech savy installer, he's up to speed on DLNA and cvp4 IP etc (sorry if i butchered that), 
What he advised is that yes, they are no longer extending the fios viewing area so if its not avail, then its not going to be made avail going forward for right now. Basically explained how their new ceo is from wireless and doesnt want to dump more money in the system which is no longer going to be the latest and greatest.
He did advise that Verizon is getting ready to come out with their new dvr that also does 6 channels and works off moca 2.0 but they are in process of developing a new IP based system which in turn will be avail to everyone once its avail. Did say its going to take a little while and may not be by the end of the year, probably sometime early next year but at least it is coming.

Of course he didnt have any info on VOD being made avail but I guess some info is better than none and was really nice having a tech who keeps up to speed with developments and knows about the technology verses just someone who screws something into the wall and plugs in the wires - thats always been my BHN experience except for BHNtechXpert above who I spoke with in person.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

jwbelcher said:


> Those little guys pump out HD channels just fine. They also push out 480i coax for those with old TVs. So how long does SD need simulcast?


At least for expanded basic, a long time. But other stuff could eventually be moved to MPEG-4 or eliminated altogether in favor of just scaling the HD.



BHNtechXpert said:


> John,
> 
> We talked at length yesterday and I thought you understood your options here. The fact that you were able to move recordings previously had nothing to do with us. Your software was not adhering to industry standards and ignore the CCI bit (apparently). Nothing has changed on this end to cause your issues it is and has been the same configuration for quite some time.


BHN and TWC have their copy flags set *incorrectly*. Surprisingly for being widely hated, Comcast actually does their *correctly*, as does Verizon. Everything except HBO can be transferred over to the PC or another TiVo, and that's only because HBO strong-arms the providers into throwing the flags on their content (because you totally can't torrent it anyways LOL).



truman861 said:


> and I understand the whole "We are doing the right thing by blocking copywriting with the cci byte" from Brighthouse


WRONG. Only HBO and possible other premium channels are supposed to be copy once. Putting copy once on regular cable channels is an incorrect implementation of the copy flag.

Of course the whole CCI flag system is idiotic, and probably costs a bunch of money to implement just for HBO and a couple of other channels, whose stuff is all over bittorrent anyways. Maybe once Comcast buys up TWC, they will lay down the law with the content providers, and just move everything to copy freely. It sure would be a heck of a lot easier and cheaper for them to not have to support a few oddball channels.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Bigg,

You may be completely correct about the CCI flags, but do you have information that substantiates your claim? To date, I've been unable to prove anything one way or the other. I do suspect that BHN is penalizing CableCARD users and doesn't want them to have a feature that isn't available to their leased-box users. 

Thanks,
S


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

TWC and BHN purposefully have their CCI flags set the way they are. It is not "incorrect" from their point of view. I doubt it is to "penalize" cablecard subs or to restrict specific TiVo functionality (the CCI flags have been set that way long before Roamios or Streams existed, and they have Whole Home DVRs themselves).

It's very likely that it is a leftover legacy of TWC's former ownership by Time Warner, Inc. which owns a lot of content and would like to see DRM on everything. BHN's use of it is due to their legacy of being former TWC systems and the fact that TWC still oversees their engineering and programming contracts.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

sbiller said:


> Bigg,
> 
> You may be completely correct about the CCI flags, but do you have information that substantiates your claim? To date, I've been unable to prove anything one way or the other. I do suspect that BHN is penalizing CableCARD users and doesn't want them to have a feature that isn't available to their leased-box users.
> 
> ...


Comcast, Verizon and others don't flag them. Hence, they don't need to be flagged. I don't know why TWC is flagging them. I think BHN flags them because they use TWC technology, and that probably came with the rest of the package.



JosephB said:


> TWC and BHN purposefully have their CCI flags set the way they are. It is not "incorrect" from their point of view. I doubt it is to "penalize" cablecard subs or to restrict specific TiVo functionality (the CCI flags have been set that way long before Roamios or Streams existed, and they have Whole Home DVRs themselves).
> 
> It's very likely that it is a leftover legacy of TWC's former ownership by Time Warner, Inc. which owns a lot of content and would like to see DRM on everything. BHN's use of it is due to their legacy of being former TWC systems and the fact that TWC still oversees their engineering and programming contracts.


It's possible that some moronic executive who doesn't know what a megabyte is mandated it. However, it makes no logical sense, as other providers don't flag channels other than the premiums.

They are purposefully incorrectly flagging the channels. I agree that it's malfeasance, not nonfeasance.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Bigg said:


> Comcast, Verizon and others don't flag them. Hence, they don't need to be flagged. I don't know why TWC is flagging them. I think BHN flags them because they use TWC technology, and that probably came with the rest of the package.
> 
> It's possible that some moronic executive who doesn't know what a megabyte is mandated it. However, it makes no logical sense, as other providers don't flag channels other than the premiums.
> 
> They are purposefully incorrectly flagging the channels. I agree that it's malfeasance, not nonfeasance.


"Incorrectly" assumes that there is a right or wrong answer to the question. The BHN rep regularly cites programming agreements. As much complaining that has happened if it was someone not knowing what they were talking about they would have fixed it by now. They know what they're doing, and they did it on purpose. If it was someone being moronic and not understanding, it would be hit or miss across their systems.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Bigg said:


> I don't know why TWC is flagging them.


The answer is pretty simple. It's *because they can*.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

JosephB said:


> "Incorrectly" assumes that there is a right or wrong answer to the question. The BHN rep regularly cites programming agreements. As much complaining that has happened if it was someone not knowing what they were talking about they would have fixed it by now. They know what they're doing, and they did it on purpose. If it was someone being moronic and not understanding, it would be hit or miss across their systems.


There is a right and a wrong answer. The flags go on the channels that require them. Non-premium cable channels don't require them, so they don't get flags. Comcast, Verizon and others run their systems this way.

That's a complete BS response, as the agreements obviously don't require flags, since not one of the several families of channels affected have them on Comcast or Verizon or others.

It is an actively wrong decision by someone at TWC/BHN. I.e. malfeasance, not nonfeasance.


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## JosephB (Nov 19, 2010)

Bigg said:


> There is a right and a wrong answer. The flags go on the channels that require them. Non-premium cable channels don't require them, so they don't get flags. Comcast, Verizon and others run their systems this way.
> 
> That's a complete BS response, as the agreements obviously don't require flags, since not one of the several families of channels affected have them on Comcast or Verizon or others.
> 
> It is an actively wrong decision by someone at TWC/BHN. I.e. malfeasance, not nonfeasance.


Actually, neither of us knows the contents of the programming agreements signed between Time Warner Cable and all of the content companies. They may have agreed to do it to get a lower rate. And the only "rule" for CCI flags is that 1. broadcast channels cannot be flagged and 2. cable companies have to abide by any contractual agreements they enter into. If they flag everything else, that is their prerogative.

I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm fully on-board with the opinion that they're screwing their customers. If their agreements don't require it, then they're being openly hostile to their customers. If their agreements DO require it then they have very poor programming buyers since no other MSO has that requirement.


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## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Which/what type of channels are copy freely or no flags, on BHN/TWC?

eg. Broadcast? CSPAN? QVC?


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

telemark said:


> Which/what type of channels are copy freely or no flags, on BHN/TWC?
> 
> eg. Broadcast? CSPAN? QVC?


Broadcast only.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I had some SDV/TA troubles this morning that required a reboot of by Cisco TA and a reboot of my Roamio.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29193104-Tampa-TiVo-Tuning-Adaptor-Issues-this-Morning


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

JosephB said:


> Actually, neither of us knows the contents of the programming agreements signed between Time Warner Cable and all of the content companies. They may have agreed to do it to get a lower rate. And the only "rule" for CCI flags is that 1. broadcast channels cannot be flagged and 2. cable companies have to abide by any contractual agreements they enter into. If they flag everything else, that is their prerogative.
> 
> I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm fully on-board with the opinion that they're screwing their customers. If their agreements don't require it, then they're being openly hostile to their customers. If their agreements DO require it then they have very poor programming buyers since no other MSO has that requirement.


It's not the broadcast agreements though. If they could somehow get a cheaper rate (which makes no sense), Comcast and Verizon and the others would be doing it too. They are just deciding to actively screw their customers for no good reason.


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## flashedbios (Dec 7, 2012)

Wait until you rack up $250 in charges from brighthouse, skip on the bill and switch fios. there. they paid for your switch


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