# Will HDTiVo Have Any Resale Value After 3/1/2006



## 483 (Feb 10, 2000)

Just curious what your thoughts are on the value of the HR10-250 after DirecTV moves to the leasing model they have discussed. 

What will this due to the eBay resale value of our units? 

Any thoughts.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Probably they will be $399 or lower, maybe some will go for $500 for a while.
The price will shift a good amount once the HR20 is release though..

And then take another kick in the pants when T3 (Tivo Series 3) is released.


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## thepackfan (May 21, 2003)

Or will the value be zero, same monthly cost to lease and no upfront cost.
The value will probably be high until I decide to get rid of mine


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

I think they will hold some value given that D* will only offer the NDS box for an HD DVR. The H10-250 is Tivo based, offers 30 sec skip hack and is HD upgradable. None of these will be availble on the NDS DVR. 

I would think that we may even see a slight demand for these boxes on ebay given the dislike for the D* NDS offereing.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Even if the NDS box is better and that's a BIG if, there will always be a good market for it to the Fanboys here that have their head in the sand.

Given that it is more likely to not be superior right away, that fanboy market should be even stronger.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> Even if the NDS box is better and that's a BIG if, there will always be a good market for it to the Fanboys here that have their head in the sand.
> 
> Given that it is more likely to not be superior right away, that fanboy market should be even stronger.


Wow. Angry guy.

S1 DirecTivo's held their value for quite a while, since they had flash-PROMS. Before the S2's were easily hacked, the S1's were highly desireable.

Now, the S2's (pre-R10) are highly desireable, while the R10 isn't. And the R15 has almost no value.

I'd expect the HR10's to be more valuable once they stop making them, and until the Series 3 Tivo's come out.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Oh, I'm not angry, I meant it half seriously and half tongue in cheek. I just expect that "Brand Loyalty" to keep the value high. Don't get me wrong Abmagfab. I'm not angry at all


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## InertiaGirl (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm actually one of those people who really wants to keep TiVo, but I won't get an HDTV for at least a few months. I'm starting to panic now and wonder if I should get one of the current boxes now, even before I have the TV for it. So, depending on my ability to do that, I may end up being one of those people in the market for an older model even after the DirecTV non-TiVo box comes out.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

InertiaGirl said:


> I'm actually one of those people who really wants to keep TiVo, but I won't get an HDTV for at least a few months. I'm starting to panic now and wonder if I should get one of the current boxes now, even before I have the TV for it. So, depending on my ability to do that, I may end up being one of those people in the market for an older model even after the DirecTV non-TiVo box comes out.


Considering that current Directv customers can call retention and get an HD Tivo for $100-$200 I'd go a head and get one now. I actually got a second one just so I'd have a spare. I activated the new one and took my old one off my account. Most of what I watch comes in from my TV antenna. I'll be using HD Tivo for years to come.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> Oh, I'm not angry, I meant it half seriously and half tongue in cheek. I just expect that "Brand Loyalty" to keep the value high. Don't get me wrong Abmagfab. I'm not angry at all


It seems like "brand loyalty" might be a bad thing in your opinion. If so, I have a different opinion. Tivo has proven since 1999 to be the only reliable PVR interface that has a feature set that contains the most desirable features. Loyalty to Tivo based on that makes perfect sense, and is based solely on NOT having one's head in the sand.

But, let's assume the NDS box comes out and either fairly replicates Tivo's interface and stability, or just plain kicks it's ass. The king is dead, long live the king. Loyalty then to Tivo would indeed be misplaced. That might even make one a "fan boy". But then I'm willing to wait at least until that point before calling anyone by that name.

And that is the criteria that will make HR10's pricey or not. Sure, there is a little cachet to the name "Tivo", but "Westinghouse" also used to have cachet back in the day, and now is primarily a mercenary badge found on bad Korean flat panel displays that have bad service records. How many Westinghouse fan boys are sucked in by the name? A few, I guess. But things change.

Tivo's legacy could live long, or die quickly. It depends on the contenders themselves. Fan boys won't have much influence, IMHO.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I think my use of the term fanboy has caused my posts to be misunderstood. I wasn't saying that it's good or that it's bad. Just that it is and therefore I think that resale of the box will remain high because there are a large group who will not consider anything else regardless of it's performance.

Hell, I'm a fanboy myself since 1999 when I got my first 14 hour. I only meant that because there is a rabid fan base, resale will likely remain high. Two posters in this thread have said as much. They are now looking for a backup just in case.

Anyway, I didn't intend offense, I was just trying to support my opinion that resale would remain high.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I would think the HR10-250 should hold decent value (few hundred $) for a while, until they completely switch to Mpeg 4 for evreything. Even then, you would still use it for OTA as long as there was guide data in the stream.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> I think my use of the term fanboy has caused my posts to be misunderstood. I wasn't saying that it's good or that it's bad. Just that it is and therefore I think that resale of the box will remain high because there are a large group who will not consider anything else regardless of it's performance...I only meant that because there is a rabid fan base, resale will likely remain high. Two posters in this thread have said as much. They are now looking for a backup just in case.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't intend offense, I was just trying to support my opinion that resale would remain high.


Maybe I just don't have the same definition of "fanboy", but I think it means people who vigorously (if not blindly) follow their allegiance to celebrity or technology, regardless of blatant evidence being available as to why they should probably not. It's a bit similar to Stockholm syndrome, something I have regularly accused many DISH PVR owners of being under the influence of (and probably unfairly). Or maybe we agree on that one.

I'm glad you are sensitive to the issues, and I, for one, am not at all offended by your contributions. You have to admit that some of your posts are a little flip, but then I have to admit the same. It's the internet, ferchrissake, and manners are a little wild here, kind of like a biker bar in Australia. Most of us have developed a thick skin, in any case. And when in Rome...

There are posters that I wish would just please go away, and then there are posters that post "interestingly", and I find them quite entertaining. Please keep posting, as I consider you among that latter group.

I just don't happen to share your opinion that the fanboy factor is strong enough to make a diff. While most of the posters here are not fanboys, pretty much all of the fanboys are posters here, and that's a very tiny percentage of owners. The forums skew heavily toward fanboy behavior, comparitive to the owner base, as I'm sure you are aware. I'm surprised we don't see more here, actually.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Thanks Tyrone.

I will say that my posting tone has changed over the last several months and it could be gleaned from those months alone that I'm anti TiVo or something like that. I'm not, not at all. I couldn't wait to get my first 14 hour TiVo back in 99 and I've enjoyed TiVo in one variety or another everyday of my life since.

It seems lately though that my role here, the one I've chosen anyway, is one to temper the "TiVo is the greatest and always will be" mantra. I have a lot of really positive things to say about the company and of course the product, but there are so many others that fill that role here, so I don't duplicate it. Thus I'm finding myself offering the counterpoint much more regularly.

Anyway, I've enjoyed this place for years (since 99 under another username) and I think that will continue.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> Thanks Tyrone.
> 
> I will say that my posting tone has changed over the last several months and it could be gleaned from those months alone that I'm anti TiVo or something like that. I'm not, not at all. I couldn't wait to get my first 14 hour TiVo back in 99 and I've enjoyed TiVo in one variety or another everyday of my life since.
> 
> ...


I have noticed the change in your tone and had assumed you had gone negative (or maybe to the dark side). Interesting to hear you apparently haven't.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Runch Machine said:


> Considering that current Directv customers can call retention and get an HD Tivo for $100-$200 I'd go a head and get one now. I actually got a second one just so I'd have a spare. I activated the new one and took my old one off my account. Most of what I watch comes in from my TV antenna. I'll be using HD Tivo for years to come.


People throw this around like its actually easy to do. I called D* several times. The best price I was every offered was $399 plus a few programming concessions. I moved to Comcast.


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## vdubuclet (Jul 20, 2003)

Lee L said:


> Even then, you would still use it for OTA as long as there was guide data in the stream.


Is there even a remote possibility that the guide data would be taken out of the stream? That would render the HR10-250 useless and IMHO D* taking that step when they are signing people up for two year contracts could be grounds for a lawsuit.


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## InertiaGirl (Jan 21, 2006)

Runch Machine said:


> Considering that current Directv customers can call retention and get an HD Tivo for $100-$200 I'd go a head and get one now. I actually got a second one just so I'd have a spare. I activated the new one and took my old one off my account. Most of what I watch comes in from my TV antenna. I'll be using HD Tivo for years to come.


I started this process already with an email and they just told me about the $200 rebate and 6 months of free HD. I'm not getting the TV for another month so I'll take it easy for a while before I really try negotiating. I may be in a tough spot since we don't get Comcast here, just Cox cable, and I don't think they're offering anything as attractive as the Comcast deals. But this is wandering off topic.

Good to hear that you can make the HD TiVo work with the over the air local channels. I'd say that's about half of what I watch and record. I have a little bitty crawlspace where I hope I can fit the antenna.


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## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

The writings on the wall folks.

I am really, really dreading the day, my next purchased DVR from DirecTV that won't be "tivo powered".

I recently resurrected a dead DSR6000. I just couldn't take having a R15 in the house. Sure, it was only $39.99 after $55 MIR (mail in rebate) for a 120GB drive, $20 for the ptvupgrade.com CD and another $19.99 for a new fan. But I did have my TIVO back in service.

I could have picked up an R15 for free. I opted for my new bionic tivo. (aka new fan, new hard drive). We can rebuild him... Stronger... faster... You know, nah, nah nah... No, like Steve Austin said -- na, na, na... na..

See my tag for Tivo descriptions. Ugh, R15, I can hardly wait or some other non-TIVO powered DVR.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Why would someone want to sell a wonderful HDtivo?  Unless you hate the box that much of course

1. it will definitely work for DTV channels until mpeg2 is turned off so why would you even think of selling it before then? It will literally be an antique 
2. in theory, anyone buying the thing would hopefully know that eventually mpeg2 will be turned off and thus I'd think the value would decrease
3. even the people who like to open these boxes up will only have OTA to play with eventually and I dont think someone will pay hundreds just for an OTA tivo, no matter how bad the new dvr is. 

So my guess is the resale eventually will settle down to 99 bucks or so. A happy mix for the person that spent 1K vs the person who only wants OTA abilities.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

vdubuclet said:


> Is there even a remote possibility that the guide data would be taken out of the stream? That would render the HR10-250 useless and IMHO D* taking that step when they are signing people up for two year contracts could be grounds for a lawsuit.


I would say definitely not in the next couple of years and probably unlikely they would ever do it as I would guess they use the same guide data for all their boxes. Isolating the HR10-250 would be difficult, but never say never.


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## TheBigDogs (Oct 14, 2004)

Assuming that you can get the guide data, the HR10-250 is a direct competitor with the Sony DHG-HDD250. Even if DTV pulls the plug (which won't happen until all the SD TiVo boxes have been retired) the opportunity to hack the HR10 to run independently is always a possibility. 

For those reasons, I don't see the value of the HR10 dropping for a long time going forward. 

Note: I'm referring to those HR10s that were purchased in the last five months with the (sometimes elusive) MIR. Anyone who spent the $1k price earlier has already taken a hit.


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## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

Lee L said:


> I would say definitely not in the next couple of years and probably unlikely they would ever do it as I would guess they use the same guide data for all their boxes. Isolating the HR10-250 would be difficult, but never say never.


You'd think that DTV would get alot of rebuff from the TIVO community. When I talked to a CSR about it, he said, some people really like the new unit (R15). Then again, if they've NEVER had a tivo powered unit, they wouldn't know the difference.

Since I've had Tivo service at least 5 years, you get used to having something that works and something that's relatively easy to use. Change comes along, and whammo.

As mentioned, it'll be a sad day when the non-TIVO powered DTV receivers rule the earth.


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## Mark W (Dec 6, 2001)

I think many people have been assuming that the new HD DVR would be based off of the R15. Does anyone know if that is truely the case? Has anyone heard of any definite differences between the two outside the handling of HD?


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Works fine as an OTA ATSC receiver, just no guide data.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Mark W said:


> I think many people have been assuming that the new HD DVR would be based off of the R15. Does anyone know if that is truely the case? Has anyone heard of any definite differences between the two outside the handling of HD?


I thought it was being dsigned by a different company (than NDS), but that may be the new whole house DVR system.


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## HogarthNH (Dec 28, 2001)

Mark W said:


> I think many people have been assuming that the new HD DVR would be based off of the R15. Does anyone know if that is truely the case? Has anyone heard of any definite differences between the two outside the handling of HD?


It is, and there aren't any.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=799955&highlight=



> It brings together the new DIRECTV Plus DVR and DIRECTV HD Receiver.


The DirecTV Plus DVR is the R15.

H


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Well, after switching to Comcast, I just sold my two HR10-250s for $350 each this week, so that's the official resale value for me.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

As long as there's MPEG-2 broadcasts on DirecTV, there'll be a market for the HR10-250. The likelihood of it becoming a paperweight this decade is pretty small.

It can record SD and DirecTV has not given any indication they plan to move SD channels to MPEG-4 ever.

As long as it's on your account with DirecTV it also will always be able to record ATSC broadcasts over the air.


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## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

inaka said:


> Well, after switching to Comcast, I just sold my two HR10-250s for $350 each this week, so that's the official resale value for me.


I have known a few people that have gone from DirecTV back to cable. Only to realize they never should have left.

Did you put in a "buy-back" clause into your sale?


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## HogarthNH (Dec 28, 2001)

IOTP said:


> I have known a few people that have gone from DirecTV back to cable. Only to realize they never should have left.


Quoted for truth.

The number of people I have heard jump ship and regret it outweigh the number who jumped ship and are happy by an order of magnitude.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

dswallow said:


> .....As long as it's on your account with DirecTV it also will always be able to record ATSC broadcasts over the air.


I'm sure DTV will be VERY happy to provide guide data in exchange for the monthly mirror fee.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> As long as there's MPEG-2 broadcasts on DirecTV, there'll be a market for the HR10-250. The likelihood of it becoming a paperweight this decade is pretty small.
> 
> It can record SD and DirecTV has not given any indication they plan to move SD channels to MPEG-4 ever.
> 
> As long as it's on your account with DirecTV it also will always be able to record ATSC broadcasts over the air.


hold on, you mean they aren't going to further compress the SD stuff in mpeg 4? I wont cry over it but doesnt that makes sense from their point of view to shove more down the pipe?

And if the shoved the SD on mpeg 4 couldn't they get even more SD stuff or free up bandwidth for even HD?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Where can I find more information about the HD-DVR Leasing option that DirecTV is going to offer?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

newsposter said:


> hold on, you mean they aren't going to further compress the SD stuff in mpeg 4? I wont cry over it but doesnt that makes sense from their point of view to shove more down the pipe?
> 
> And if the shoved the SD on mpeg 4 couldn't they get even more SD stuff or free up bandwidth for even HD?


They certainly could, but it would come at the price of having to replace some 30 million receivers. It's just not economical for them to do that; they don't need the bandwidth -- they'll eventually free up a lot of it that's currently used for MPEG2 HD and while there certainly are some SD channels around DirecTV doesn't carry, it's not that there's a huge number that could only be carried by using MPEG4 on existing SD channels to make sufficient room.

Now it certainly would be a good thing for them to include the capability of decoding MPEG4 and demodulating 8PSK and the new Ka-band signal distribution scheme in any new SD receiver -- then at some unknown time in the distant future they could swap any remaining receivers out and make the change... or even just begin rolling out a new, higher, tier of service with some extra channels in SD that are MPEG4 only -- thus only dealing with a subset of subscribers to exchange equipment.

And the (not yet announced) R20 supposedly is just that -- an MPEG-4 capable SD DVR. The R15 isn't -- it's MPEG2 only.


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## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

dswallow said:


> They certainly could, but it would come at the price of having to replace some 30 million receivers. It's just not economical for them to do that; they don't need the bandwidth -- they'll eventually free up a lot of it that's currently used for MPEG2 HD and while there certainly are some SD channels around DirecTV doesn't carry, it's not that there's a huge number that could only be carried by using MPEG4 on existing SD channels to make sufficient room.
> 
> Now it certainly would be a good thing for them to include the capability of decoding MPEG4 and demodulating 8PSK and the new Ka-band signal distribution scheme in any new SD receiver -- then at some unknown time in the distant future they could swap any remaining receivers out and make the change... or even just begin rolling out a new, higher, tier of service with some extra channels in SD that are MPEG4 only -- thus only dealing with a subset of subscribers to exchange equipment.
> 
> And the (not yet announced) R20 supposedly is just that -- an MPEG-4 capable SD DVR. The R15 isn't -- it's MPEG2 only.


Did ANYONE at that went to CES see anyone from Directv and get their "official" repsonse from going away from TIVO based DVRs?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dswallow said:


> They certainly could, but it would come at the price of having to replace some 30 million receivers. It's just not economical for them to do that; they don't need the bandwidth -- they'll eventually free up a lot of it that's currently used for MPEG2 HD and while there certainly are some SD channels around DirecTV doesn't carry, it's not that there's a huge number that could only be carried by using MPEG4 on existing SD channels to make sufficient room.
> .


Welp then I hope the people that want one, get a hdtivo now while they can  Seems like it will be a life long purchase.

I have questions about the bandwidth being saved but will enumerate them tomorrow.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I may call "retention" tomorrow and see if I can get a good deal.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

IOTP said:


> I have known a few people that have gone from DirecTV back to cable. Only to realize they never should have left.
> 
> Did you put in a "buy-back" clause into your sale?


I have a feeling those people that you knew made the switch a while back and not recently. Honestly, I can't see why I'd ever want to go back to DTV. For my personal situation, I moved to a house where I didn't get OTA HD reception, so that was the dealbreaker. However, there were lots of other reasons why I was getting less and less thrilled about DTV. The new MPEG-4 dish, the lack of of a HD DVR for MPEG-4 (insane!), the numerous lines of coax required to each box, the phone line connection (sometimes) required, the upfront fees, the two-year contract, comcast having an actual Tivo in the near future, no future tivo for DTV, comcast doesn't have a long term contract, no upfront fees for comcast, the list goes on...


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## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> I may call "retention" tomorrow and see if I can get a good deal.


Last time I called, I got the HD-Deal. The 3-way SAT dish, and OTA installed for $250 w/RCA HD receiver. I sold the HD non-tivo I think the D10, and purchased the HR10-250 for $899. I then called DTV and got 6 mos $2/mo HBO, free HD, free SHO and free HD pkg for 6 mos. That was Nov 2004. I'll wait and see what happens when the new line of HD DVRs come out and go from there.


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## IOTP (Aug 7, 2001)

inaka said:


> I have a feeling those people that you knew made the switch a while back and not recently. Honestly, I can't see why I'd ever want to go back to DTV. For my personal situation, I moved to a house where I didn't get OTA HD reception, so that was the dealbreaker. However, there were lots of other reasons why I was getting less and less thrilled about DTV. The new MPEG-4 dish, the lack of of a HD DVR for MPEG-4 (insane!), the numerous lines of coax required to each box, the phone line connection (sometimes) required, the upfront fees, the two-year contract, comcast having an actual Tivo in the near future, no future tivo for DTV, comcast doesn't have a long term contract, no upfront fees for comcast, the list goes on...


Looks like the new R15 has got some new features. Built in stacker for one, my personal favorite is caller-id, some find CID a pain, I actually would like it.

Dual tuners now use a splitter off one LNB right into the back of the receiver. That will help alot of people "achieve" dual tuner functionality. With only one cable ran to the TV. 2 story homes will definately like that.

I noticed that when my brother-in-law got his R15. He has an 18" round and 2x4 multiswitch. 4 TVs in the house, now five tuners.

For me, the BIGGEST feature is DUAL tuner for SAME time slot programming (eg Leno .vs. Letterman).

Now I *NEVER* miss a show.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Can I do this...

Tripple Sat Dish with the 4 switchable outputs -> 2x4 multiswitch -> Two SD DirecTiVos(set up as single dish only so they only lock into the 2 LNB's on the main sat)

Then run the remaining 2 outputs from the TripleSat directly to a HDTiVo (which can take advantage of all LNBs) ?


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## DTV TiVo Dealer (Nov 13, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> Can I do this...
> 
> Tripple Sat Dish with the 4 switchable outputs -> 2x4 multiswitch -> Two SD DirecTiVos(set up as single dish only so they only lock into the 2 LNB's on the main sat)
> 
> Then run the remaining 2 outputs from the TripleSat directly to a HDTiVo (which can take advantage of all LNBs) ?


Yes, but don't forget to ground all of the coaxes.

-Robert


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

That's probably a good idea, unfortunetly I don't have them grounded right now


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

TheBigDogs said:


> ...the HR10-250 is a direct competitor with the Sony DHG-HDD250...


Has anyone tried one of these? A little pricey at $800 for 25 hours, but $1000 for 50 hours (HDD500) isn't too bad, even though a HR10 upgraded to 83 hours would be about $700.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> Has anyone tried one of these? A little pricey at $800 for 25 hours, but $1000 for 50 hours (HDD500) isn't too bad, even though a HR10 upgraded to 83 hours would be about $700.


Yup, I have one of the Sony's. Now that they are discontinued, you should be able to get them for <$500. (I got mine at Best Buy for $469).

Nice picture, uses TVGOS for guide data, slightly better interface than the cable DVRs, but still no Tivo.

Since Sony licensed some of the Tivo functions, the autocorrect after FF is there and very well done (user adjustable delays too).


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## Bigfire (Aug 11, 2003)

I moved on from the HDTivo and DirecTV to Comcast and a Windows Media Center. It records HD (and SD) through the firewire port, and is amazingly stable. Admittedly, by "amazing" I mean for a PC. I've missed less shows with it than I've missed with the HDTivo (not it's fault, my switch got screwed up), and it does a tremendous amount more than the HDTivo.

If DirecTV were keeping the Tivo line active, I'd probably have stayed with them. I find it amazing that I've gone to a monopoly in order to keep choice in my PVRs. And the PQ on the digital channels rather sucks. It's like they turned a sharpness control all the way down. Very irritating, and I'm hoping they fix it. Plus, they're more expensive by default than DirecTV, though I plan on calling them tomorrow and fixing that issue.


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## 483 (Feb 10, 2000)

Bigfire said:


> I moved on from the HDTivo and DirecTV to Comcast and a Windows Media Center.


I would be interested in hearing more details about your setup. Are you using an xbox as an extender? You can "TiVo" sd cable channels? If not using an xbox how do you connect to your tv?


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

DTV TiVo Dealer said:


> Yes, but don't forget to ground all of the coaxes.
> 
> -Robert


sorry for my ignorance, Robert, but how do you ground the coaxes?


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

There is actually coax made with a ground wire running alongside it in the insulation. Also, you can use ground blocks that allow you to ground the shield of the cable to a ground wire..


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

Lee L said:


> There is actually coax made with a ground wire running alongside it in the insulation. Also, you can use ground blocks that allow you to ground the shield of the cable to a ground wire..


ah, thanks, Lee.

the R6 cable i use has ground wire in it, is that enough?

i hope so, i really don't want to get into "ground blocks".


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

ground blocks only cost 3 bucks and as long as you are near your outside faucet (metal pipes of course), are a breeze to ground


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

newsposter said:


> ground blocks only cost 3 bucks and as long as you are near your outside faucet (metal pipes of course), are a breeze to ground


thanks, newsposter.

update: i have a cable going directly from the antenna to the receiver and here are my results......

the signal on City-HD is now 89-90.

CFTO 79-80.

CBLT is jumping all over the place, sometimes it stays at 71.

14, 32, 38 and 39 from Buffalo are all very weak.

i haven't used the multi-switch yet.

i'm gonna move it a bit west and see what happens.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

joetoronto said:


> thanks, newsposter.
> 
> update: i have a cable going directly from the antenna to the receiver and here are my results......
> 
> ...


very smart move first perfecting it with a direct line. That's what i did to rule out other troubles later. Then you can always buy amps or whatever once your KNOW your signal is good yet have to run other wires etc.

Also, remember things like a steady 70 is always better than a multipath ridden signal jumping all over the place (like 55-75 etc). But of course perfection is not always attainable and you are left trying to get a high enough signal so that when it drops, it stays above 60ish. I had to do this with ch67. I have a good 85 reading most of the time but it does drop to 70 sometimes. If I had left it where the installer did it, around 73ish, then I'd be dead in the water when it dropped below 60. It's literally a balancing act.

With HD tivo I've found steady 60s can produce results just fine. My previously most troublesome signal, now that i'm on the roof, comes in at a firm 71 all the time in the evenings (80s in the mornings because of atmosphere i guess?)


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

i connected the multi-switch and now there's no signal on some channels, aye carumba. 

i don't understand what i did wrong, it seemed so simple.

do i have to have *4* cable lines going into the multi-switch for it to operate properly?

i have 3 cables coming down from the dish but only 2 of those go into the multi-switch, the other one goes to the family room upstairs.

meanwhile, i only have 3 cables coming *out* of the multi-switch.

could this be the problem?

thanks, joe.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

If you have a 3-LNB dish you need 4 cables from the dish to the multiswitch; If you only have two cables to the multiswitch, any receiver connected to the multiswitch will only receive channels from the satellite at 101-degrees.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

dswallow said:


> If you have a 3-LNB dish you need 4 cables from the dish to the multiswitch; If you only have two cables to the multiswitch, any receiver connected to the multiswitch will only receive channels from the satellite at 101-degrees.


oh boy. 

all i really wanted to do was to end up with 3 runs in the theatre room instead of 2.

hmmm..... i guess i'll disconnect the multi-switch for now then.

thanks, dswallow


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

can you locate the m/s 'before' you get to the point you need to break off into 3 runs? attic /basement etc?

but there is no true need for it if you need less than 4 runs as previously stated or planned on diplexing into the m/s. I dont think you told us if you needed to do that.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

newsposter said:


> can you locate the m/s 'before' you get to the point you need to break off into 3 runs? attic /basement etc?
> 
> but there is no true need for it if you need less than 4 runs as previously stated or planned on diplexing into the m/s. I dont think you told us if you needed to do that.


i think you're asking me if i can put the muti-switch outside where the cables come down from the dish, newsposter.

if so, yes i can but then i would not only have to run another cable from the dish to the switch (to come up with the requried 4), but i would also have to run more cables downstairs to the theatre room and that pretty much impossible.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

i need 3 cables coming into the theatre room, one for my sammy TS-160 and 2 for the HR10-250 tivo.

the sammy's OTA tuner is works way better than the tivo's OTA tuner, by the way, but that's not really why i want one of the cables for it.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Bigfire said:


> I moved on from the HDTivo and DirecTV to Comcast and a Windows Media Center. It records HD (and SD) through the firewire port, and is amazingly stable. Admittedly, by "amazing" I mean for a PC. I've missed less shows with it than I've missed with the HDTivo (not it's fault, my switch got screwed up), and it does a tremendous amount more than the HDTivo.
> 
> If DirecTV were keeping the Tivo line active, I'd probably have stayed with them. I find it amazing that I've gone to a monopoly in order to keep choice in my PVRs. And the PQ on the digital channels rather sucks. It's like they turned a sharpness control all the way down. Very irritating, and I'm hoping they fix it. Plus, they're more expensive by default than DirecTV, though I plan on calling them tomorrow and fixing that issue.


#1 - What MCE card lets you record HD over firewire? Last update I have, it only supports a small handful of ATSC tuner cards for HD recording. No cable card, no HD cable.

#2 - You can't view HD on a TV (unless you plug your PC into the TV directly, which is lame, IMO). The 360 is supposed to support HD streaming from MCE at some point, but I don't believe it does yet (and it has horrible media format support anyway).

Are you BS'ing us?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

well not "outside" per se but 'before' but as you say now, doesn't matter really since you can't run the extra wire.


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## mavsman78 (Jan 19, 2006)

I think the HR10-250 will only have limited value until DirecTV switches over to mp4 for HD. After that, only hacked/upgraded units will have any value at all. I just switched to Verizon FiOS from DirecTV. I had the HR10-250. The biggest draw for me was the local HDs being included and the future possibility of MoCA.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

mavsman78 said:


> *I think the HR10-250 will only have limited value until DirecTV switches over to mp4 for HD.* After that, only hacked/upgraded units will have any value at all. I just switched to Verizon FiOS from DirecTV. I had the HR10-250. The biggest draw for me was the local HDs being included and the future possibility of MoCA.


agreed, although it'll be years before mg2 is shutdown. in the meantime, this baby will have given me a hell of a lot of pleasure.

God knows i've done a lot worse in my life than pay $500.00cdn for such a wonderful machine.

like betting on the NFL playoffs.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

of course by definition it's just a boat anchor or OTA $5 tivo after mpeg2 is shut off. But That's not necessarily a bad thing to have 2 more HD tuners at hand.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

mavsman78 said:


> I think the HR10-250 will only have limited value until DirecTV switches over to mp4 for HD. After that, only hacked/upgraded units will have any value at all. I just switched to Verizon FiOS from DirecTV. I had the HR10-250. The biggest draw for me was the local HDs being included and the future possibility of MoCA.


HAD? Do you still have it, I'll give you $50 for it  That's a great deal since it only has "limited value"...


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

You guys have got to be kidding. The most watched channels are still the major networks, CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX. For the majority of people who get their local stations over the air, HD Tivo will be invaluable for years to come. 99% of the shows I watch come from the local channels. If it weren't for HD Tivo, I would no longer be a Directv customer. I even got a second one for $99 after rebates and discounts just to keep as a spare. 

It's possible at some point that I will get the new HD DVR for Directv MPEG4 channels and just use the HD Tivo for local channels. It will depend on what channels become available in HD via Directv and the pricing.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> HAD? Do you still have it, I'll give you $50 for it  That's a great deal since it only has "limited value"...


mavs i'll give you 51!


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