# PS Vue now nationwide



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Base package is $30/mo. It looks like it has most if not all the major cable channels.

Seems like a pretty good price. 

Testing it out now. 7 day free trial. UI is slick.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> Base package is $30/mo. It looks like it has most if not all the major cable channels.
> 
> Seems like a pretty good price.
> 
> Testing it out now. 7 day free trial. UI is slick.


What are you using it on? PS4 or Amazon device?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Hmm... looks like without the local channels they've been able to lower the price a LOT. This bodes well for the rumored TiVo streaming service.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Hmm... looks like without the local channels they've been able to lower the price a LOT. This bodes well for the rumored TiVo streaming service.


Don't hold your breath, Tivo's ship already sailed. With companies like Sony & soon AT&T/DirecTV entering the market all doing cloud based DVR'ing Tivo will never be able to compete unless they rethink there whole marketing Strategy. No One is going to pay Tivo's current prices when a $39 Amazon stick will work the trick with no ongoing fees other than Programming.
What Tivo should do is strike a deal with AT&T to carry there streaming content with Full DVR functions then we would have something to talk about.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

PS Vue for $30 is a pretty great deal for a lot of cord cutters. Lots of the most popular cable channels, including ESPN 1&2 and Fox Sports 1&2, next-day on-demand access to programs from ABC, NBC and FOX, plus 28-day cloud DVR and a slick UI. No need to own a PS4, you can sign up with a Fire TV.

I agree with davefred99 that TiVo's ship has pretty much sailed in terms of launching their own streaming TV service. They just have no in-house expertise at doing that, no background in negotiating carriage deals with the TV networks.

The best shot for TiVo to have any future with the cord-cutter market at this point would be to come up with an entirely new box. It would be marketed as a unified streaming device, not as a DVR. It would not have a hard drive.

I'd based it on a fork of Android TV but with a customized system UI. Have a single OTA TV tuner in it and a free top-notch program guide. Allow users to pause and rewind up to an hour of live TV using cheap on-board flash memory. Cut a deal with one of these skinny cable streaming services (PS Vue, DirecTV's upcoming service, or Vidgo if it gets off the ground) to offer their service on the box, with that service merged into the same standard UI that the box presents for live OTA TV. Additionally, get the various streaming app providers (Netflix, HBO Now, Showtime, Amazon Video, Hulu, CBS All Access, etc.) to provide the Android TV version of their apps (no code tweaking necessary) for inclusion on the box, and provide universal search and a universal watchlist across the most popular apps (much like OnePass does now). Any OTT apps with live channel streams, such as Showtime or CBSN, would have their live streaming channels integrated into the main system UI, right alongside OTA channels and the streaming cable channels from PS Vue/DirecTV/etc. (The ChannelMaster DVR+ already does something like this with live streaming channels.)

TiVo would make money on the upfront hardware and also get a slice of the recurring subscription revenue for all OTT transactions made through the box (i.e. the same profit model that Roku has). Perhaps TiVo would require users to have at least one recurring subscription streaming service active on their TiVo account in order to receive the free live OTA program guide.

It would be a premium streaming box with a better UI, plus live OTA TV and streaming cable packages built in and merged intelligently. They'd need a great universal remote (box/TV/sound system) and voice search too. I think they could price it the same as Apple TV.

I truly believe that there will be no Bolt OTA. Cord cutters see OTA TV as a free bonus but streaming is the main thing their video diet is built on. We're going to see more and more of these skinny cable streaming services. TiVo should try to ride that wave.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> what are you using it on? Ps4 or amazon device?


ps4.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

It doesn't have A&E. 

And yeah no local channel network affiliates either. Your ABC, NBC and Fox have limited on-demand with CBS coming later supposedly.

Supposedly they will get local affiliate content added on a market by market basis.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

The cloud dvr is dead simple to use once you figure out that just adding a show to My Shows puts it in the cloud along with all future episodes of that show and keeps them for 28 days. That's it. It's just a click.

The cloud also displays future episodes. I liked seeing upcoming NBA games (that will be "recorded") in the NBA folder. The folders are actually thumbnails so it is graphically more slick than Tivo's traditional list. 

ON the PS4 everything flies given its power. 

The trick play is deficient compared to Tivo. So it looks like skipping commercials will be a pain. I haven't bothered yet. I just watched some sports in the background.

Quality was ok. Not as good as Comcast, for example, but much better than the internet streaming I've seen from Comcast. 

I got the $35/mo package for the trial and that gives you local/regional sports channels plus the lesser ESPN channels plus other stuff that I haven't figured out yet. They don't have a very handy comparison chart on the website. 

I think you can stream it on more than one device at a time. 

$30/mo is barely more than the cost of my Tivo equipment over 3 years and I got a good deal on my Tivo setup.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Tiered bundled packages again,

no a la carte- NO THANK YOU!

to get Boomerang I have to pay more with a bunch of junk channels-

I'll stay with Cable/Tivo

Sony can F-off


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Yeah, you can stream PS Vue on a few devices simultaneously. You can't with Sling TV.

The $30 Slim package is only available in those markets in which Sony doesn't have deals in place to carry the local major network affiliates. If the markets where they do, the cheapest package starts at $40. I wonder if eventually they'll add locals in lots more markets, forcing subscribers who started out at $30 up to $40.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davefred99 said:


> Don't hold your breath, Tivo's ship already sailed. With companies like Sony & soon AT&T/DirecTV entering the market all doing cloud based DVR'ing Tivo will never be able to compete unless they rethink there whole marketing Strategy. No One is going to pay Tivo's current prices when a $39 Amazon stick will work the trick with no ongoing fees other than Programming.
> What Tivo should do is strike a deal with AT&T to carry there streaming content with Full DVR functions then we would have something to talk about.


One thing TiVo can offer in this space, that no one else can offer, is direct integration of the cloud service with an OTA DVR for locals. They bypass the high carriage fees of the local channels while integrating the cloud DVR directly into OnePass so that to the user the experience is completely seamless. If they could do that and keep the monthly fees inline with Vue (including the TiVo fee) I'd consider switching.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Looks like a decent alternative to cable/satellite. Five concurrent devices is great for families. (Six if you have a PS3 or a PS4 and seven if you have both.) You get a lot more for $30 than Sling provides for $20 -- assuming multiple streams and the additional channels are valuable to your household. The new 'skinny' packages do not include local television channels.

Of course, you need uncapped, unthrottled high speed internet and that is going to add ~$50 to your monthly bill. And you need to buy/support hardware and network in your home to support the service. I remain skeptical as to whether our infrastructure will support a lot of people streaming HD the way we watch television.

As for the impact on the TiVo Universe, I really do not think there will be much in the short term. No one is going to buy a TiVo to watch Vue -- a PS4 is less than an 'all in' Bolt -- so adding the app to TiVos is not going to increase sales. These bundles are still less compelling than a premium offering for people who want to watch everything or do nothing.

If you are watching Tablo TV on a Fire TV, this is probably very exciting. If you have an antenna and watch Netflix or Hulu on a Fire TV this is an alternative bolt on.

I looked closely for two families and found Vue (and Sling TV) unacceptable. My mother's background noise channels are Lifetime (Comcast's digital economy or starter bundles) and Hallmark (Comcast's digital starter bundle). My sister's husband is a sports fan. Lack of local programming (football) and NESN (baseball) were a deal killer for him. 

So, we have more competition and more fragmentation but no transformation -- yet.


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## KSOC Kid (Nov 19, 2015)

The $35 package has my interest. Includes for me the Fox Sports Florida stations with baseball & hockey. I cannot get them now even though I subscribe to both sports subscription packages as I am blacked out. Big Ten and ESPN, a cloud DVR & multiple streams, attractive. If it doesn't come to Roku or AppleTV it could influence my purchase of a Fire TV.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Once it's available on Roku I'll test it out for sure. Lot more value for $30 then Sling TV at $20. Multiple users streaming at once, regional sports nets, full VOD on the networks, cloud DVR. Sling TV had better bring it to compete. And AT&T/DirecTV later this year. Love the competition which should drive innovation up and price down.

I don't need local channels included so I hope they don't force those in down the road. Or make the local channels and add-on price (say $5 to add your locals).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

I bet we see PS Vue available on Roku by late summer if not before. Sony has said they will bring it to more devices and Roku has to be top of the list. (What else would be? Android TV? Maybe later. Apple TV or XBox? Doubt they'll ever allow it.)


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## 4thesporty (Mar 1, 2016)

I'd switch from Sling to Vue in a heartbeat if I could choose to not have the locals. Tivo and an antenna do those for me fine.

As is, I pay $25/month for Sling (basic plus kids package). It would cost me $40 for the same thing, plus a handful of other channels on Vue. If I could drop the local channels and get the package for $30 we would have a deal.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Absolutely amazing, cord cutters gawking at a stupid service like this that is no different than traditional service in that it has a 3 tiered bundled pricing structure, Where's the a-la carte? Why pay for channels you dont need? Why bundle the garbage and then have to worry about data usage from the cable co/telco.

I can see them really cracking down on the data usage now.

Just like I said before, streaming is just gee-wiz, look I'm saving money!
Just wait until they crack down on your usage. we will see how much you are really saving by "cuting the cord"

A true cord cutter does not use the internet for video, fools.


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## KSOC Kid (Nov 19, 2015)

Well, I feel differently. It's about value, which is unique to what you want. There are channels (entertainment) I would pay as part of MY entertainment. 
Also, should I have internet for email, Facebook, Twitter, banking, shopping, telephone (Ooma), security systems (Simplisafe,Arlo), newspaper, news,radio, researching, advice, music and not take advantage of the video streaming capabilities? The internet is a utility. I don't go to movies, rarely go to sporting events or restaurants. A few bucks a month so I can have access to what I want to watch is valuable to me.

And with no contract I can cancel when I want.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

foghorn2 said:


> Absolutely amazing, cord cutters gawking at a stupid service like this that is no different than traditional service in that it has a 3 tiered bundled pricing structure, Where's the a-la carte? Why pay for channels you dont need? Why bundle the garbage and then have to worry about data usage from the cable co/telco.
> 
> I can see them really cracking down on the data usage now.
> 
> ...


And that is precisely the issue with having the main providers of internet access also having a financial interest in providing video services. Hopefully net neutrality rules will prevent them from unfairly penalizing users of these services while not penalizing their own services.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> Absolutely amazing, cord cutters gawking at a stupid service like this that is no different than traditional service in that it has a 3 tiered bundled pricing structure, Where's the a-la carte? Why pay for channels you dont need? Why bundle the garbage and then have to worry about data usage from the cable co/telco. I can see them really cracking down on the data usage now. Just like I said before, streaming is just gee-wiz, look I'm saving money! Just wait until they crack down on your usage. we will see how much you are really saving by "cuting the cord" A true cord cutter does not use the internet for video, fools.


I'm with you. I'm tired of hearing what the term cord cutter has come to. Vue is just cable using a stream rather than QAM. Linear channels.

It is welcome to the fray because it is more options and completion but no one can call themselves a cord cutter if they have Vue. Reminds me of all the people trying to claim fios wasn't cable because it was delivered to the home via fiber optic. Which Comcast is now as well.

This is a new cable company. Maybe a good one but still a cable company in essence. And one that requires you supply the carrier medium.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

These may be "cable companies" but even so they are providing much needed competition in most areas where the existing cable companies have functional monopolies. Not everyone can put up a dish, but most people have enough internet bandwidth to stream video.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> These may be "cable companies" but even so they are providing much needed competition in most areas where the existing cable companies have functional monopolies. Not everyone can put up a dish, but most people have enough internet bandwidth to stream video.


I agree. They give completion. But don't call yourself a cord cutter if you just attached a different cord.

The biggest reason why cord cutting numbers seem high? Because the term originally meant people who were going OTA. Now it expands to people using Netflix and Hulu. They aren't cord cutters. They just are feeding off a different teat.


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## 4thesporty (Mar 1, 2016)

TonyD79 said:


> I'm with you. I'm tired of hearing what the term cord cutter has come to. Vue is just cable using a stream rather than QAM. Linear channels.
> 
> It is welcome to the fray because it is more options and completion but no one can call themselves a cord cutter if they have Vue. Reminds me of all the people trying to claim fios wasn't cable because it was delivered to the home via fiber optic. Which Comcast is now as well.
> 
> This is a new cable company. Maybe a good one but still a cable company in essence. And one that requires you supply the carrier medium.


Maybe partially correct here but....

The companies offering "slim" TV packages allow me to subscribe to their service as I please. I can stop at any time for a month or two and pick right back up when I want with no penalties, ETFs, Installation charges, etc. Also, I'm not stuck with monthly fees like HD access, receiver fee, DVR fee which can and will add up to $50 to a monthly bill; yes I have to purchase their carrier medium (Amazon fire TV, Fire Stick, Roku) but I own it and it does many other things besides providing me with cable (Netflix, Plex, youtube, screen mirroring, etc)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

4thesporty said:


> Maybe partially correct here but.... The companies offering "slim" TV packages allow me to subscribe to their service as I please. I can stop at any time for a month or two and pick right back up when I want with no penalties, ETFs, Installation charges, etc. Also, I'm not stuck with monthly fees like HD access, receiver fee, DVR fee which can and will add up to $50 to a monthly bill; yes I have to purchase their carrier medium (Amazon fire TV, Fire Stick, Roku) but I own it and it does many other things besides providing me with cable (Netflix, Plex, youtube, screen mirroring, etc)


Are you trying to negate what I said? Still not cord cutting.

As for slim packages. Fios offers them too. But what is a slim package? I don't see any difference between Vue and the smaller packages for directv or dish.


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## KSOC Kid (Nov 19, 2015)

Guess we need a new term then! I'm a Satellite Subscription Cutter! 
My antenna has a cord. Haven't cut it yet.
I have Netflix but I haven't watched everything on it. So I'm paying for things I haven't watched.
My wife has Feeln's Channel, & it's a la carte. And I think she's seen everything on it!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't think "cord cutting" would even be a thing if the only option was OTA. The advent of services like Netflix and Hulu are the only reason people really even consider it. "Cord Cutting" has become a term to reference anyone who's dumping cable/DSS in favor of a cheaper option. Services like SlingTV and Vue are just extensions of that. People still want access to the content available on cable/DSS they just don't want to have to pay $200/mo to get it.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

I think of myself more as a Cord Shaver than a Cord Cutter. In order to be a true Cord Cutter I would have to Live off the Grid with no Internet and live like a Hermit. I have no intentions of ever fully cutting the cord Instead I just want to be free of all locked in contracts and locked to one size fits all options. As long as I am free to make changes on a monthly basis I will pick and choose as I see fit. I do not care if I get labled as a cord cutter, cord shaver or cable sub subscriber. I just want more better choices were and when to spend my money on.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

KSOC Kid said:


> Guess we need a new term then! I'm a Satellite Subscription Cutter!
> My antenna has a cord. Haven't cut it yet.
> I have Netflix but I haven't watched everything on it. So I'm paying for things I haven't watched.
> My wife has Feeln's Channel, & it's a la carte. And I think she's seen everything on it!


You must cancel Netflix now because you're paying for stuff you don't watch!!!!!!!!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I just looked at the channels offered by Vue's Core Slim plan, and with the exception of History (for Vikings) they have every single channel I watch. If it weren't for the 28 limit on the DVR feature I might seriously consider this. $30/mo compared to over $100/mo for cable is a big difference.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

My video portion of my Cox bill is < $40 including the cable cards and has all but 1 channel I really would wish be in my package.

This is not a new customer deal, its what COX offered me to keep me from leaving them after the promos expired.

No other fees because all my Tivo's/minis have Lifetime now.
Because I have video service I pay less than others for the internet also.

For video, I don't have to worry about internet usage limits.

Way better than Sling or Vue, and I can record ANYTHING! add some premium promos and record like hell and then drop or rotate the premiums and enjoy later.

I wanted to give pay tv the finger many times, but I've come to realize Cox just wont give up keeping me as a customer, too hard to resist their superior tried and trusted service.

No buffering, no pixelating and no stupid: "look ma, I'm streaming off the internet!!"


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## 4thesporty (Mar 1, 2016)

TonyD79 said:


> Are you trying to negate what I said? Still not cord cutting.
> 
> As for slim packages. Fios offers them too. But what is a slim package? I don't see any difference between Vue and the smaller packages for directv or dish.


Nope, just calling it a horse of a different color.

The reason the slim packages are different from the smaller packages offered by directv and dish are lined out in my previous post.


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## 4thesporty (Mar 1, 2016)

foghorn2 said:


> My video portion of my Cox bill is < $40 including the cable cards and has all but 1 channel I really would wish be in my package.
> 
> This is not a new customer deal, its what COX offered me to keep me from leaving them after the promos expired.
> 
> ...


You sir, are in the minority of cable subscribers. Cox must have competition in your neighborhood. If I could get that deal, I wouldn't switch either.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think "cord cutting" would even be a thing if the only option was OTA. The advent of services like Netflix and Hulu are the only reason people really even consider it. "Cord Cutting" has become a term to reference anyone who's dumping cable/DSS in favor of a cheaper option. Services like SlingTV and Vue are just extensions of that. People still want access to the content available on cable/DSS they just don't want to have to pay $200/mo to get it.


Well you can say you know of one real cord cutter. I dropped Dish sometime back in 2007 or 2008 and was 100% OTA only for several years. Did try Hulu at one point but my Internet wasn't good enough to stream reliably until last spring so never really used it much. Have Amazon Prime now but haven't used it for video streaming for weeks maybe months also use Vudu now and then but for the most part I watch what I can get via OTA. That said if something like Vue was available on my Bolt I might try it during the summer season. For me being able to turn something on/off month by month and not needing any provider equipment are my base requirements.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

foghorn2 said:


> My video portion of my Cox bill is < $40 including the cable cards and has all but 1 channel I really would wish be in my package.


The TV portion of my bill is $125

The cheapest plan Charter offers is $60/mo + $7/mo for a box + $13/mo in fees. (franchise fee, broadcast TV fee) So that's $80/mo for their minimum package.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> I agree. They give completion. But don't call yourself a cord cutter if you just attached a different cord.


Fine, but ultimately you're quibbling over semantics. I agree that the term "cord cutter" is technically incorrect in most cases, but so what? It's essentially a catchy phrase that reflects that more and more people these days are spending less money on TV programming, opting away from the traditional cable/satellite packages (with contracts, add-on fees, rented equipment, inconvenient installation appointments, etc.) and toward a range of lower-cost, commitment-free solutions that still allow them to enjoy most of the stuff they want, when they want.

Choice is good.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think "cord cutting" would even be a thing if the only option was OTA. The advent of services like Netflix and Hulu are the only reason people really even consider it. "Cord Cutting" has become a term to reference anyone who's dumping cable/DSS in favor of a cheaper option. Services like SlingTV and Vue are just extensions of that. People still want access to the content available on cable/DSS they just don't want to have to pay $200/mo to get it.


In an article from May of last year, tvtechnology.com claims that there are, "12.6 million U.S. homes that watch only broadcast TV." Most people I talk to are antenna only. I am antenna first -- which is to say >90% of what we watch is OTA. I am letting Netflix lapse and using Prime mostly for the deals. I do have an ISP, but I don't need one. The fact is that you can install an antenna for $100, add a DVR for $35, and do away with the rest.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I don't think "cord cutting" would even be a thing if the only option was OTA. The advent of services like Netflix and Hulu are the only reason people really even consider it. "Cord Cutting" has become a term to reference anyone who's dumping cable/DSS in favor of a cheaper option. Services like SlingTV and Vue are just extensions of that. People still want access to the content available on cable/DSS they just don't want to have to pay $200/mo to get it.


Perpetrated by the streaming service. Paying a cable company for Internet is not cutting the cord. And then putting a streaming service that is just like cable is not cord cutting.

Call it what you want but it is ******** to call it cord cutting.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> Fine, but ultimately you're quibbling over semantics. I agree that the term "cord cutter" is technically incorrect in most cases, but so what? It's essentially a catchy phrase that reflects that more and more people these days are spending less money on TV programming, opting away from the traditional cable/satellite packages (with contracts, add-on fees, rented equipment, inconvenient installation appointments, etc.) and toward a range of lower-cost, commitment-free solutions that still allow them to enjoy most of the stuff they want, when they want. Choice is good.


Maybe I like words to have meaning. If they don't, you can't measure anything. And look at the discussions here on what TiVo should offer. Without real definitions, the discussion just became mired in nonsense.

I'm going to start calling my car a helicopter. Why not. It doesn't matter what I call it. It gets me from point A to point B.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

foghorn2 said:


> Absolutely amazing, cord cutters gawking at a stupid service like this that is no different than traditional service in that it has a 3 tiered bundled pricing structure, Where's the a-la carte? Why pay for channels you dont need? Why bundle the garbage and then have to worry about data usage from the cable co/telco.
> 
> I can see them really cracking down on the data usage now.
> 
> ...


I've always thought this. The cable companies aren't going to sit still and let their core business be stolen from them with the getaway vehicle being their own internet service. They'll either impose data caps or simply jack up the Internet charges to compensate for the loss.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

trip1eX said:


> Base package is $30/mo. It looks like it has most if not all the major cable channels.
> 
> Seems like a pretty good price.
> 
> Testing it out now. 7 day free trial. UI is slick.


So this comes over your internet connection?

Also, someone asked about locals... I didn't see any mentioned. Is that something they gave up on or are still working on?


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

UCLABB said:


> I've always thought this. The cable companies aren't going to sit still and let their core business be stolen from them with the getaway vehicle being their own internet service. They'll either impose data caps or simply jack up the Internet charges to compensate for the loss.


That has been posted about often in the Satelliteguys forums. Some of us have been saying for quite sometime now don't count on costs you see now being what they will be if more and more people go to streaming rather than traditional linear (Satellite/Cable) services. I see Charter is close to Acquiring TWC and Brighthouse. Did Charter tip their hand in regards to your comment when they said this will make them viable for OTT services that are growing? If they can limit competition that does not bode well if you depend for everything via Cable Internet. 
(Side note - these mergers may be a huge problem for consumers going forward. Also Fios is winding down any further expansion and at least where I am in Florida it's almost like they have given up competing in cost)


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## huskerpower95 (Jan 12, 2016)

Dan203 said:


> One thing TiVo can offer in this space, that no one else can offer, is direct integration of the cloud service with an OTA DVR for locals. They bypass the high carriage fees of the local channels while integrating the cloud DVR directly into OnePass so that to the user the experience is completely seamless. If they could do that and keep the monthly fees inline with Vue (including the TiVo fee) I'd consider switching.


This is set up I see working for myself. I get locals with OTA on TIVO Bolt and stream Sony Vue or Sling TV though Iphone/ Ipad to Chromecast. It all fits the $35.00 budget for TV services. I have no issue but the wife who likes only having one remote. She just found out that Netflix is available on the Bolt. If TIVO could ad streaming service apps to Bolt, my life would be so much easier.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

gastrof said:


> So this comes over your internet connection?
> 
> Also, someone asked about locals... I didn't see any mentioned. Is that something they gave up on or are still working on?


yep it is streamed and they are working on adding locals to additional markets other than the 3 they started with. The price would be higher.

they do have a ABC NBC and Fox on-demand content with CBS coming later.


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

Signed up for trial. Blows Sling TV out. Still feel that $30 is still too close to a bundle price with cable.

*The ABC OD shows I watched had no commercials. Comedy Central did, but you could FF.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

miadlor said:


> Signed up for trial. Blows Sling TV out. Still feel that $30 is still too close to a bundle price with cable.
> 
> *The ABC OD shows I watched had no commercials. Comedy Central did, but you could FF.


Seems to me if you're a person who cares about current major network shows (ABC, NBC, Fox, soon to include CBS), it probably makes more sense to pay $30 for PS Vue Slim than it does to pay $20 for Sling TV + $8 for Hulu. Granted, outside of major network shows, Hulu also gives you some movies and a few original series but it also has commercials in its shows (unless you pay an extra $4). Meanwhile, PS Vue is giving you cloud DVR on cable channels, and several more cable channels than Sling TV. PS Vue also serves several streams simultaneously and provides access to a number of authenticated streaming "TV everywhere" apps like Watch ESPN.

At any rate, I think the above argument shows that PS Vue has come up with the right price point for their base Slim package at $30. AT&T DirecTV and others will likely come out with slightly different combinations of channels at various price points but, for those interested in a skinny cable package with time-shifting capability across all channels, I'm skeptical that we'll see any better value for the money than this $30 deal from PS Vue.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Vue is missing not just A&E but also the rest of the A&E family like the History channel and Lifetime.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

NashGuy said:


> Seems to me if you're a person who cares about current major network shows (ABC, NBC, Fox, soon to include CBS), it probably makes more sense to pay $30 for PS Vue Slim than it does to pay $20 for Sling TV + $8 for Hulu. Granted, outside of major network shows, Hulu also gives you some movies and a few original series but it also has commercials in its shows (unless you pay an extra $4). Meanwhile, PS Vue is giving you cloud DVR on cable channels, and several more cable channels than Sling TV. PS Vue also serves several streams simultaneously and provides access to a number of authenticated streaming "TV everywhere" apps like Watch ESPN.
> 
> At any rate, I think the above argument shows that PS Vue has come up with the right price point for their base Slim package at $30. AT&T DirecTV and others will likely come out with slightly different combinations of channels at various price points but, for those interested in a skinny cable package with time-shifting capability across all channels, I'm skeptical that we'll see any better value for the money than this $30 deal from PS Vue.


I agree with most everything you said, especially the part about people thinking there is going to be some magical cheaper option or true cheaper alacarte program options. I am OK with skinny bundles like SlingTv and now PsVue as long as we have several options to pick from and the choice to cancel at anytime it works for me. The idea that we are going to get pay TV for free is absurd but there is a limit to how much I will pay for and I especially hate all the hidden fees & monthly ongoing costs associated with traditional cable and Tivo is a part of it.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

davefred99 said:


> I agree with most everything you said, especially the part about people thinking there is going to be some magical cheaper option or true cheaper alacarte program options.


Yep. And for folks who insist on a la carte, hey, it's already available, not at the cable channel level but at the even more granular show level. Do you want to see The Walking Dead without a cable package? You can buy the current season of the series and watch each episode as it becomes available in HD for $41.99 on Vudu or Amazon Video. Want to catch FX's The People v. O.J. Simpson? You can buy it in HD for $24.99.

The only free TV comes through an OTA antenna (with ads). Otherwise, you're gonna have to pay one way or another and the more you narrow down specifically what it is you want to pay for and watch, the more you're going to pay per hour of entertainment.


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> .......
> At any rate, I think the above argument shows that PS Vue has come up with the right price point for their base Slim package at $30. AT&T DirecTV and others will likely come out with slightly different combinations of channels at various price points but, for those interested in a skinny cable package with time-shifting capability across all channels, I'm skeptical that we'll see any better value for the money than this $30 deal from PS Vue.


Going by what I was paying.... 3 cable cards and about 65 channels + internet for $119. Internet and Vue it would be $93. $26 savings without the ability to record what I want and loss of a bigger OD library, to me, doesn't really justify not just keeping cable to begin with.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

For the VOD (like ABC), how many episodes are available? Hulu will only have the latest 5 episodes at best for most current shows. So for example how many episodes of Agents of Shield are available?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> For the VOD (like ABC), how many episodes are available? Hulu will only have the latest 5 episodes at best for most current shows. So for example how many episodes of Agents of Shield are available?


I'd doubt it would be more than abc itself provides and they have 5 episodes of SHIELD on the abc app.


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> For the VOD (like ABC), how many episodes are available? Hulu will only have the latest 5 episodes at best for most current shows. So for example how many episodes of Agents of Shield are available?


Just checked and only 2 available right now.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

miadlor said:


> Going by what I was paying.... 3 cable cards and about 65 channels + internet for $119. Internet and Vue it would be $93. $26 savings without the ability to record what I want and loss of a bigger OD library, to me, doesn't really justify not just keeping cable to begin with.


It all depends on what level of Internet service you want and what sort of package deal you can get for cable tv + Internet. I'm getting standalone fast internet for $30 a month and only have one tv. Add PS Vue Slim and I'd be at $60. I just checked and it doesn't appear possible to get internet and those same channels (as well as additional ones, granted) plus DVR service from Comcast for under $100.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> For the VOD (like ABC), how many episodes are available? Hulu will only have the latest 5 episodes at best for most current shows. So for example how many episodes of Agents of Shield are available?


Varies. ABC, NBC and Fox seem to have the fewest. They are pretty stingy.

Better Call Saul has 4 episodes.

OJ vs the People has all 7 episodes available via VoD.


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

Vue doesn't work on a mobile device outside your home network.


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## HD_Dude (Sep 11, 2006)

foghorn2 said:


> Absolutely amazing, cord cutters gawking at a stupid service like this that is no different than traditional service in that it has a 3 tiered bundled pricing structure, Where's the a-la carte? Why pay for channels you dont need? Why bundle the garbage and then have to worry about data usage from the cable co/telco.
> 
> I can see them really cracking down on the data usage now.
> 
> ...


That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Talk to a Millennial. They're all true cord-cutters. And all they watch is internet video. Netflix. HBO Now. Hulu.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.


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## achalupa (Oct 27, 2008)

miadlor said:


> Vue doesn't work on a mobile device outside your home network.


Kinda. You can't use your PS3/4 or FireTV outside your home network. You can use the Vue Mobile app to watch a subset of the channels. You can also use your Vue credentials to log into nearly all provider apps.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

How does it know when you're on your home network?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

miadlor said:


> Vue doesn't work on a mobile device outside your home network.


Neither does TiVo if you have a Bolt.


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## Daveb08 (Oct 7, 2015)

miadlor said:


> Vue doesn't work on a mobile device outside your home network.


Just install the app on the iDevice for what channel you want to see. Log in with your Vue email/password and your good to go. Vue app inside, channel app outside. Problem solved.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

foghorn2 said:


> For video, I don't have to worry about internet usage limits.
> 
> Way better than Sling or Vue, and I can record ANYTHING! add some premium promos and record like hell and then drop or rotate the premiums and enjoy later.
> 
> ...


I have to agree. I've been using Sling on a 3 month test and Showtime stand alone for the 30 day trial. Although sling works ( showtime app freezes a lot) well function wise it is so inferior to the pleasure of watching tv on a Tivo, whether live or recorded. I won't be renewing either. With Comcast bundles it's less money to have tv with Comcast than internet alone and streaming services.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

HD_Dude said:


> Talk to a Millennial. They're all true cord-cutters. And all they watch is internet video. Netflix. HBO Now. Hulu.


On their mobile phones or the cable companies' other cord?


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

UCLABB said:


> I've always thought this. The cable companies aren't going to sit still and let their core business be stolen from them with the getaway vehicle being their own internet service. They'll either impose data caps or simply jack up the Internet charges to compensate for the loss.


I agree. The battle has just begun. Their will have to be regulation for this to continue because Cable will block this with caps or lawsuites.

The internet got started because isp's could use the phone lines. Imagine what internet would be today without this. Imagine if the telco's put a stop to using their phone lines. This is the new battle.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

foghorn2 said:


> A true cord cutter does not use the internet for video, fools.


Of course everybody uses the internet for videos and calling people that do fools is way out of line.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

In case you need more: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...streaming/1854177-playstation-vue-thread.html

Funny. I have a Sony Blu-ray and TV which have PlayStation apps. I wonder if Vue will be added.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Paying a cable company for Internet is not cutting the cord. Call it what you want but it is ******** to call it cord cutting.


Many of us had internet before getting TiVo or subscribing to a cable TV package. Are you really claiming that you have to get internet from a company that isn't affiliated with a TV service if you want to be a cord cutter?


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

poppagene said:


> Many of us had internet before getting TiVo or subscribing to a cable TV package. Are you really claiming that you have to get internet from a company that isn't affiliated with a TV service if you want to be a cord cutter?


That's not really the point. Solar companies are selling expensive collectors nationally by telling people their savings will more than offset costs. Now, PUCs are changing the way we pay for electricity (less for power and more for infrastructure) so the power companies continue to make their money. Having weened people off gas guzzling cars, the government is looking at changing the tax to a by-the-mile model. The same thing has been going on with the premium providers. Bundling has allowed these providers to lock out 'internet only' and 'streaming' competition. When I left Comcast, I inquired about internet only and was told I might as well get basic cable because it was 'just a couple bucks more'. So, they will charge higher rates for streaming, HD, UHD, etc., service levels and charge extra for unlimited data. That's just how it goes.

If you want to 'cut the cord', you need to leave your premium provider 100%. Once you can do that at will, you have leverage to negotiate a better price.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

wizwor said:


> That's not really the point.
> 
> If you want to 'cut the cord', you need to leave your premium provider 100%. Once you can do that at will, you have leverage to negotiate a better price.


Actually, it was a direct quote.

I have Fios from verizon in Maryland and have never had Verizon TV service, just landline and internet. I "cut" off directv in 2011. Apparently, I'm not a cord cutter because I stream Netflix and Amazon prime. I had Amazon prime for shipping well before they had free video content and had Netflix for mailing DVDs before they started streaming, but changed to just streaming as it was as cheap and better suited my viewing habits.

I have had internet service in one form or another prior to owning a tivo or subscribing to a premium tv service.

I don't see how you would say I'm a cord-cutter because of the order in which I subscribed to things and someone who has the exact same services isn't because they didn't completely sever an existing relationship to the premium tv company.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

I would consider something like Sling or Vue quite different from cable tv providers in that you can access their shows live in geographically different locations. The portability of programming between a residence on the east coast and a 2nd home on the west home is something cable companies can't replicate.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

poppagene said:


> I don't see how you would say I'm a cord-cutter because of the order in which I subscribed to things and someone who has the exact same services isn't because they didn't completely sever an existing relationship to the premium tv company.


You can be a cord cutter -- you have my permission 

I don't like the term anyway -- just for the reasons you stated. It's more of a political statement than a descriptive moniker, right?

I refer to myself as an 'OTA-first cord cutter' -- which is just as preposterous. In fact, I am just like you -- I have an ISP (Fairpoint which used to be Verizon), Netflix (started with DVDs before I left Comcast), and Prime (mostly for the shipping/discounts). We also have smart phones. I'm pretty sure we could do without high speed internet, but Fairpoint has locked my $45/month for life, so replacing it with a 4G modem doesn't make much sense.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

poppagene said:


> Many of us had internet before getting TiVo or subscribing to a cable TV package. Are you really claiming that you have to get internet from a company that isn't affiliated with a TV service if you want to be a cord cutter?


A true cord cutter does not pay a cable company for video in any way. That is still a cord.

But no way is a cord cutter doing sling tv or ps Vue. That is just a different cord.

Get a different name. It's a stupid one.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

poppagene said:


> I would consider something like Sling or Vue quite different from cable tv providers in that you can access their shows live in geographically different locations. The portability of programming between a residence on the east coast and a 2nd home on the west home is something cable companies can't replicate.


Bull. There is lot of streaming from Comcast, fios, directv.

And from what I understand Vue doesn't allow full access away from your primary residence.

Vue is just another linear provider.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> A true cord cutter does not pay a cable company for video in any way. That is still a cord.


So what you're implying is really just *don't pay a cable company for anything*. A landline from Verizon? Internet service because I might view videos online? Cell service from ATT or Verizon because they have TV tie-ins.

You can post what you will, but try to keep it a bit more civil.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

A cord cutter has always been referring to cable tv, nothing to do with internet. Their is no reported losses of internet subscribers. Ie cord cutter and cord never equals TV subs.

Now if cutting the tv cord winds up costing more than cable tv that's not to smart.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

poppagene said:


> So what you're implying is really just don't pay a cable company for anything. A landline from Verizon? Internet service because I might view videos online? Cell service from ATT or Verizon because they have TV tie-ins. You can post what you will, but try to keep it a bit more civil.


 Video. Read it again. Like tv. Movies. Yes. You are not cutting a cord if you pay a cable company for video services. You are still paying them. You are just paying less.

That is no different than cutting out HBO. Is someone who cuts HBO from their cable bill a cord cutter? It is nonsense to make people feel better. You don't want to pay the evil cable company yet you still do.

I am being civil. You try not to insult me by saying I am not.


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## davefred99 (Oct 31, 2004)

I am so sick of this argument of who is or is not a cordcutter. I actually prefer the term cordshaver. As has been said previously it is mostly a political statement anyways. My goal is only to get what I want when I want it and be as frugal as possible in the process.My biggest and most important goal is to be free to do it and eliminate all long term contracts. If I can afford something I want I will pay for it as long as when I am tired of it or want I can change it. As long as I am not a slave to arbitrary long term contracts its all good.


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

It is not a literal term. A cord cutter is someone who cancels their traditional style cable/satellite TV. The label isn't in reference to any actual physical cord.


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## andybech (Aug 30, 2011)

Biggest issue in my area is Comcast's monopoly on high speed internet. The only other option I have is AT&T DSL. So essentially I am stuck with Comcast and calling them every 12 months to lower my rate by $10-$20. Comcast Internet on their medium speed tiers starts at about $80 a month. Add PS Vue, locals, HBO, maybe Hulu and you are pretty close to the $180-$200 a month that Comcast wants for their triple play packages.

What is needed are internet alternatives. Looking at Starry potentially if it gets rolled out to more cities. At that point one could have a real alternative to Comcast or at least get them to lower their price by $50. Tivo is better watching live TV than any streaming service.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

abovethesink said:


> It is not a literal term. A cord cutter is someone who cancels their traditional style cable/satellite TV. The label isn't in reference to any actual physical cord.


Right. I'm pretty sure there was no physical cord going from the dish on my roof to the DirecTV satellite in outer space but I still say that I "cut the cord" when I dropped satellite pay TV last year. Meanwhile, I continued to subscribe to a separate internet service that I use for a lot of things, including streaming video.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

At least one poster, different forum, said a cord cutter needs to cut (remove) the power cord from his TV set. In other words stop watching TV.

PS Vue isn't a cord cutter product. It's similar to satellite service, just an alternative method of TV distribution. You have a choice of tier program packages at different price points.

Cord cutting seems to refer to customers who don't subscribe to linear programming packages. Customers who receive OTA stations. Customers who use "on demand" internet video service such as Netflix, Hulu, Amazon...In this context a person who keeps high speed internet service is still considered a cord cutter.

Unlimited, uncapped internet bandwidth may disappear. Cord cutters may be using far more data then other customers. Net neutrality doesn't mean unlimited.

NY area PS Vue currently costs $40,$45 or $55. They are showing regular prices of $50,$55 and $65.

Some of the commonly carried cable stations aren't included. I don't see any of the A&E stations, Hallmark stations, Lifetime or HD Net (movies). They have some of the regional sports stations but not all.

Doesn't look like a great deal.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> And from what I understand Vue doesn't allow full access away from your primary residence.


Thanks for pointing this out. This certainly makes VUE less useful to me as an OTA accompaniment.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Did Sony pay for infrastructure to deliver the video service to you?

No, the Cable or Telco did, freeloaders!

Cut the cable or telco cord, see how far you can go, you are not a cord cutter, you are just paying to freeloaders.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

foghorn2 said:


> Did Sony pay for infrastructure to deliver the video service to you?
> 
> No, the Cable or Telco did, freeloaders!
> 
> Cut the cable or telco cord, see how far you can go, you are not a cord cutter, you are just paying to freeloaders.


You mean those lines over public property. Also, isn't the customer paying to use that bandwidth. It's not that cut and dry as you suggest.

You can ask the same question to every single website.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Yes, you are paying for that bandwidth for video and will be paying more as time goes by, thus you are not a cord cutter.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm always surprised to hear people say the price difference between cable + internet or internet only is negligible or even cheaper to bundle than internet alone. I realize they do offer some temporary teaser deals and/or will just lie to you on the phone sometimes but I have never seen pricing that would remain this way. They don't like to give these out freely but cable operators have to provide a list of actual prices for their services. I get one per year in one of my internet bills from Time Warner and always hang on to it as they really don't want you to know what their "real" prices are. I can tell you that the cost for regular cable TV is substantially higher than internet only, typically $80 to well over $100 per month more. Yes they do have "starter TV" which is far fewer channels than what most people can get with an antenna. But I'm talking about the cost of a normal cable subscription inclusive of "broadcast" tv surcharges and the like. TW in our area even offers a lower tier internet service for only $14.99 per month that will allow you to stream SD video as long as you don't have a house full of teens all using wifi. The most recent friend that I helped cut their cable went from $162 per month for basic cable w/equipment and internet to $14.99 for a lower tier internet only service. They are also paying $14.99 for an OTA TiVo but there total cost dropped by over $130 per month by going OTA, buying their own equipment (modem + TiVo), and dropping their internet speed.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

wizwor said:


> That's not really the point. Solar companies are selling expensive collectors nationally by telling people their savings will more than offset costs. Now, PUCs are changing the way we pay for electricity (less for power and more for infrastructure) so the power companies continue to make their money. Having weened people off gas guzzling cars, the government is looking at changing the tax to a by-the-mile model. The same thing has been going on with the premium providers. Bundling has allowed these providers to lock out 'internet only' and 'streaming' competition. When I left Comcast, I inquired about internet only and was told I might as well get basic cable because it was 'just a couple bucks more'. So, they will charge higher rates for streaming, HD, UHD, etc., service levels and charge extra for unlimited data. That's just how it goes.
> 
> If you want to 'cut the cord', you need to leave your premium provider 100%. Once you can do that at will, you have leverage to negotiate a better price.


Excellent comparisons. 
If you no longer get Charter TV, but use Charter Cable to get TV you have not cut the Charter TV cord, in the end you have transferred that cost to paying for their Internet service, or will. And Cable will do what the examples did, find a way for you to pay more for whatever you now use from them to make up for not using their TV product. Caps, Slowdown after a certain amount of usage, etc etc unless you pay more and more.

If the cable networks lose enough customers from Cable transmissions you will see the cost of the Netflix's of the world go higher and higher as the program providers charge them more.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

This may be one of the lamest arguments ive seen in a long time. I'm calling myself a cord cutter but I'm not telling you why. You'll just have to hope I'm using it correctly.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

foghorn2 said:


> Did Sony pay for infrastructure to deliver the video service to you?


I'm sure they did pay for a lot of it. No streaming video service exists without providing or leasing a content delivery network.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I hope you guys are all joking. 

There maybe some generally agreed upon meaning by some small group of people primarily posting/talking about people dropping their cable or satellite service but that doesn't mean much until the term makes the complete move from being nothing more than slang to a term with an agreed upon meaning that makes it into our standard language via becoming a defined dictionary term. 

Right now we are in the faze where many people are trying to stamp their preferred definition (as evidenced by this thread) on "cord cutting" or "cord cutters". 

The fact that anyone really cares is what I find the most amusing .


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Vue isn't without bugs. I had a sports event from the cloud playing in the background and it kept looping. Took me awhile to realize that it was repeating itself. I had to ff to get out of the loop. But then it would start looping again 10 minutes later.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

TeamPace said:


> *I'm always surprised to hear people say the price difference between cable + internet or internet only is negligible or even cheaper to bundle than internet alone. * I realize they do offer some temporary teaser deals and/or will just lie to you on the phone sometimes but I have never seen pricing that would remain this way. They don't like to give these out freely but cable operators have to provide a list of actual prices for their services. I get one per year in one of my internet bills from Time Warner and always hang on to it as they really don't want you to know what their "real" prices are. I can tell you that the cost for regular cable TV is substantially higher than internet only, typically $80 to well over $100 per month more. Yes they do have "starter TV" which is far fewer channels than what most people can get with an antenna. But I'm talking about the cost of a normal cable subscription inclusive of "broadcast" tv surcharges and the like. TW in our area even offers a lower tier internet service for only $14.99 per month that will allow you to stream SD video as long as you don't have a house full of teens all using wifi. The most recent friend that I helped cut their cable went from $162 per month for basic cable w/equipment and internet to $14.99 for a lower tier internet only service. They are also paying $14.99 for an OTA TiVo but there total cost dropped by over $130 per month by going OTA, buying their own equipment (modem + TiVo), and dropping their internet speed.


People don't say that, at least not in this thread. The point is dropping video results in losing bundling discounts. You'll certainly pay less but maybe not enough to offset the cost of the alternatives. PSVue would cost me $55 per month, probably $70 if I want to add Showtime. Cable (FiOs) give me far more channels for not much more. FiOs would cost the same, or less, if I went with fewer channels, but still more channels then PS Vue.

People in this thread are looking to get a similar viewing experience at a lower cost and/or fewer restrictions.

Your example is a friend who was evidently paying for far more service then they were using. I don't think posters on TCF are interesting in streaming SD programs as an alternative to HD cable or satellite.

A budget option not often mentioned. Many public libraries have DVDs and BRD available for loan. Redbox is another budget option not mentioned much.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

TeamPace said:


> I'm always surprised to hear people say the price difference between cable + internet or internet only is negligible or even cheaper to bundle than internet alone. I realize they do offer some temporary teaser deals and/or will just lie to you on the phone sometimes but I have never seen pricing that would remain this way. They don't like to give these out freely but cable operators have to provide a list of actual prices for their services. I get one per year in one of my internet bills from Time Warner and always hang on to it as they really don't want you to know what their "real" prices are. I can tell you that the cost for regular cable TV is substantially higher than internet only, typically $80 to well over $100 per month more. Yes they do have "starter TV" which is far fewer channels than what most people can get with an antenna. But I'm talking about the cost of a normal cable subscription inclusive of "broadcast" tv surcharges and the like. TW in our area even offers a lower tier internet service for only $14.99 per month that will allow you to stream SD video as long as you don't have a house full of teens all using wifi. The most recent friend that I helped cut their cable went from $162 per month for basic cable w/equipment and internet to $14.99 for a lower tier internet only service. They are also paying $14.99 for an OTA TiVo but there total cost dropped by over $130 per month by going OTA, buying their own equipment (modem + TiVo), and dropping their internet speed.


Here's the math for me.

Internet 75mbps stand alone = $76
Above internet using streaming HBO, sling TV and antenna $76 + $35 = $111. Going down to 25mbps is about $10 less.

Comcast internet plus: 75 mbps, around 50 channels (similar to sling give or take) and includes HBO = $85 add about $8 taxes and fees for a total of $93.
Cheaper than the streaming option. This is regular price with no discounts.

In my case cable tv is cheaper. I can also say cable tv with a dvr blows any internet tv out of the water. Their are always glitches with internet tv at some point. I have sling tv now because I wanted to test and see if it would work. So I can compare the 2. I have to say Sling works pretty good function wise for me using Roku's and computers, so I'm not bashing sling.

Now if I could get at least 25mbps internet for $30. I could see maybe going to internet tv. I can see the value of internet tv if your mooching internet off someone else.


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> Tiered bundled packages again,
> 
> no a la carte- NO THANK YOU!
> 
> ...


Ala Carte is probably never going to happen.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

I have a Roamio that I use for OTA. I do not have cable tv, satellite, netflix, hulu, Amazon, or any other video streaming service. I currently pay Comcast $25 a month for 25/5 internet which I will need to renegotiate in May I believe. I use an Ooma for phone. I have a prepaid mobile phone with no data.

Label me whatever you want. Probably a backward old hermit would be fitting!

Both Sling and this Vue thing intrigue me. I wish you could keep shows longer than 28 days on the Vue cloud DVR. Unfortunately, no saving up and binge watching using this...


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

kettledrum said:


> I have a Roamio that I use for OTA. I do not have cable tv, satellite, netflix, hulu, Amazon, or any other video streaming service. I currently pay Comcast $25 a month for 25/5 internet which I will need to renegotiate in May I believe. I use an Ooma for phone. I have a prepaid mobile phone with no data.
> 
> Label me whatever you want. Probably a backward old hermit would be fitting!
> 
> Both Sling and this Vue thing intrigue me. I wish you could keep shows longer than 28 days on the Vue cloud DVR. Unfortunately, no saving up and binge watching using this...


You make me weak in the knees! I was reluctant to purchase a TiVo simply because I did not to always be tethered to the company. Ultimately, I can see me relying on a smart phone for internet everything.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

kettledrum said:


> I have a Roamio that I use for OTA. I do not have cable tv, satellite, netflix, hulu, Amazon, or any other video streaming service. I currently pay Comcast $25 a month for 25/5 internet which I will need to renegotiate in May I believe. I use an Ooma for phone. I have a prepaid mobile phone with no data.
> 
> Label me whatever you want. Probably a backward old hermit would be fitting!
> 
> Both Sling and this Vue thing intrigue me. I wish you could keep shows longer than 28 days on the Vue cloud DVR. Unfortunately, no saving up and binge watching using this...


You live in an area that has several internet choices. Your lucky, this is why you can get it so cheap.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

So how well does FF and IR work with Vue? Does it work like TiVo or more like the terrible experience you get with other OTT services?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Yeah no skip mode let alone 30 second skip. It's just ff at 2x,4x, 8x, 16x, 32x speeds. I mentioned earlier it isn't like a Tivo.

Vod is a different story. Better Call Saul and OJ seem to have very limited commercials on VoD. Better Call Saul only has 1 30 second spot and then maybe an AMC promo that might last 30 seconds. Total show length only 46minutes.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

schatham said:


> I agree. The battle has just begun. Their will have to be regulation for this to continue because Cable will block this with caps or lawsuites.
> 
> The internet got started because isp's could use the phone lines. Imagine what internet would be today without this. Imagine if the telco's put a stop to using their phone lines. This is the new battle.


 Just like the the bidding wars for streaming content I except to see the same thing happen for cable channels as more OTT streaming companies come on board. Channels are not legally bound to be carried by any company, with Sling and Vue things are about as cheap as they are going to get. Let the carnage begin... And then there is the Ala carte channel idea, people will find that it will cost more than bundles. Competition is good, it usually weeds out the smaller players


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

trip1eX said:


> Yeah no skip mode let alone 30 second skip. It's just ff at 2x,4x, 8x, 16x, 32x speeds. I mentioned earlier it isn't like a Tivo.
> 
> Vod is a different story. Better Call Saul and OJ seem to have very limited commercials on VoD. Better Call Saul only has 1 30 second spot and then maybe an AMC promo that might last 30 seconds. Total show length only 46minutes.


Does the FF show a preview while it's FFing? Or are you just looking at a time code like Amazon?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> Does the FF show a preview while it's FFing? Or are you just looking at a time code like Amazon?


Preview. It doesn't work that bad actually. I fwd'd through the commercials of a few episodes of Better Call Saul last night and I'd say fast forwarding is pretty comparable to the cable dvrs I used 5 or 6 years ago. NOt up to Tivo standards. But doable.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

So it proves that FFing doesn't have to be terrible from streaming services. I wonder why it's so bad in most of them?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> So it proves that FFing doesn't have to be terrible from streaming services. I wonder why it's so bad in most of them?


It's all relatively new. It's not like streaming is as a mature a tech like Tivo's trick play. Streaming is still getting better. And not sure some of it as terrible as you think.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm talking about other services. Netflix is horrible. Amazon doesn't show a preview just a time code. Hulu does like a 10 second skip with a little preview image which is worse then Amazon. I think HBOGo does a more normal FF but at a relative slow speed. Vudu is similar to Amazon.

TiVo would be fine with a 30 second skip, 8 second IR and SkipMode on channels that supported it. (QuickMode would also be nice)


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> I'm talking about other services. Netflix is horrible. Amazon doesn't show a preview just a time code. Hulu does like a 10 second skip with a little preview image which is worse then Amazon. I think HBOGo does a more normal FF but at a relative slow speed. Vudu is similar to Amazon.
> 
> TiVo would be fine with a 30 second skip, 8 second IR and SkipMode on channels that supported it. (QuickMode would also be nice)


Yeah I know you're talking about other services.

I don't find Netflix horrible.

IT skips back ~10 seconds just fine. It uses thumbnails to let you fairly quickly find a spot further into a show.

It isn't as responsive, for say skipping ahead 4 minutes like Tivo is, but there aren't commercials so I don't see a big need for it to really good in skipping ahead 4 minutes.

And again these services are all fairly new. When I got my SEries 2 in 2005ish, Tivo worked the same and none of these services existed.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The Netflix system would not be good for DVR recordings with commercials. It's barely usable for skipping past the opening credits.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> The Netflix system would not be good for DVR recordings with commercials. It's barely usable for skipping past the opening credits.


Yeah I think I acknowledged this already. 

But calling these commercial-free services horrible at skipping commercials doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And you don't usually include the "at skipping commercials" part after "horrible" (so it confusing as to what exactly is so horrible about some of these services.)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> It's all relatively new. It's not like streaming is as a mature a tech like Tivo's trick play. Streaming is still getting better. And not sure some of it as terrible as you think.


Netflix has been streaming for 9 years.

Amazon has been streaming for almost 10 years.

MLB has been doing streaming since 2002.

ESPN since 2005.

Hulu for 8 years.

Not quite as new as you are portraying.

The services that have commercials don't want you to skip them. In fact, most OTT disables commercial skipping. Hard for them to get better at something they don't want to do.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Most people's internet have a much faster download then upload speed, so if things are in the cloud any command you send off well...


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> Netflix has been streaming for 9 years.
> 
> Amazon has been streaming for almost 10 years.
> 
> ...


How new was I portraying streaming services?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> How new was I portraying streaming services?


New enough that they wouldn't have advanced. Yet streaming has been around for a decade and while the PQ has gotten better, the interface and trick play has not.

Here we go. You say it is new and don't expect much. When it is pointed out it isn't new then you claim that you didn't mean what you wrote.

You specifically said it was new in terms of trick play. And yet trick play has not improved in the ten years (which is more than one generation in tech terms).


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> New enough that they wouldn't have advanced.


But I never said that. ON top of it, I think the very opposite. They've advanced a lot both in UI and in trick play.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tenthplanet said:


> Most people's internet have a much faster download then upload speed, so if things are in the cloud any command you send off well...


The data involved with sending off commands is minuscule. Latency would be more of an issue then bandwidth in that case.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> I'm talking about other services. Netflix is horrible. Amazon doesn't show a preview just a time code. Hulu does like a 10 second skip with a little preview image which is worse then Amazon. I think HBOGo does a more normal FF but at a relative slow speed. Vudu is similar to Amazon.
> 
> TiVo would be fine with a 30 second skip, 8 second IR and SkipMode on channels that supported it. (QuickMode would also be nice)


At least with Hulu, Amazon and Netflix, you can record them to TiVo with a combo of playon and pytivo so that skipping and ff and rew are a cinch.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> But I never said that. ON top of it, I think the very opposite. They've advanced a lot both in UI and in trick play.


I don't. I have been using streaming since the beginning. The play portion of Netflix is almost 100% the same as it was. They added a small skip back buffer on some devices and that is about it.

Amazon prime had a very tired GUI until recently and the play portion has barely changed except for the load times.

MLB's biggest improvement is in PQ and it still needs work. Little has improved otherwise. Rewind and FF are still basically black screen.

I've been using the same Hulu interface for about 3 years. The only improvement there was Hulu commercial free. The transport still looks the same.

Watch ESPN is horrible except on portable devices.

And everything is extremely inconsistent for each service from device to device and for each device from service to service.

For a decade of existence, the improvement in interface and trick play is basically non-existent. Other than PQ improvements, streaming is standing still from a user perspective.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

poppagene said:


> At least with Hulu, Amazon and Netflix, you can record them to TiVo with a combo of playon and pytivo so that skipping and ff and rew are a cinch.


Doesn't that violate at lead one of the usage agreements?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

poppagene said:


> At least with Hulu, Amazon and Netflix, you can record them to TiVo with a combo of playon and pytivo so that skipping and ff and rew are a cinch.


That still much more complicated than just recording on your TiVo, I can see explaining this to my wife


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## 483 (Feb 10, 2000)

I am curious if those of you who are enjoying the picture quality from VUE are watching sports. 

I get excited and think I can handle this when just watching regular tv but then I watch a basketball game and the blocking that occurs during fast moving action is horrible.


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

Amidst all the cord cutter arguing and fast forward concerns, the real takeaway that I find here is choice. It is pretty cool that more people have more choices now. There are two legitimate internet TV providers in Sony with Vue and Dish with Sling. They aren't perfect and issues with data caps remain, but they exist. Next time I have to deal with Time Warner Cable, or someone else with another more or less monopoly of a cable company, I and we will be playing the game with a slightly better hand.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

********* said:


> I am curious if those of you who are enjoying the picture quality from VUE are watching sports.
> 
> I get excited and think I can handle this when just watching regular tv but then I watch a basketball game and the blocking that occurs during fast moving action is horrible.


 It's a work in progress ask anyone who has watched live events on MLB or the NHL over the internet. It's gotten better and live is always a challenge, you are encoding on the fly. If you watch a lot sports I wouldn't burn any provider bridges for at least a year or two.


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## Bigbossman (Mar 28, 2016)

Hi, made an account just to share - I had a retention deal with Cox that just expired. Nice of Vue to come along when it did. I am in a $29.99 market with it.

I called Cox to see if I could get another retention deal. For those that don't know the only way to get channels like ESPN, Bravo and Spike with Cox is to get their advance tv package, regular price of $75 or something. Those same channels of course on Vue for the above i.e. less than half that price.

Short story the best I could shake loose was 50 meg internet with advance TV and some premiums for $138 - OR - they said I could ditch the TV altogether and lock in 2 years of 100 meg internet for $60 a month. So that's what I did and I hope Vue works out.

Now it was nice having everything on the Tivo but we have a Roamio with ota and thankfully all the local channels come in with it. I really hoped Cox would have come close to the price of Vue but you see the difference here even removing premiums from the mix was still over $40 a month.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

From my 7 day trial, Vue is pretty promising. It works fine for scripted shows. Quality is good in that dept. And while the commercial skip is no Tivo, it's doable. Plus if a show is on VoD and you're willing to wait for it, then you get very little commercials as it is so you might find yourself not bothering to skip the 1.5 commercials you find in place of the usual 4+ minutes. This might not apply to every show though for all I know. (edit: actually I don't think I could skip the commercials in VoD so that isn't an option, but I was fine with that since there was only 1 real commercial and then 1 channel promo.) 


It also has good sports coverage especially if you get the $35/mo package at least in my area. I received the local pro sports channels which was nice.

The cloud dvr is very simple and less fuss than a Tivo as long as you buy into the 28 day lifespan of everything in your cloud. There's much to like about Vue's GUI vs Tivo's UI.


But the sports pic quality, in general wasn't as good as cable. It's better than the sports I've seen streamed from the cable company to the computer. Also sports have a lot of commercials and stuff I want to skip over and that's where I'd miss 30 second skip and 15 minute skip the most. 

The big OTA networks aren't entirely there. CBS isn't there at all although supposedly coming and there is no live feed of these channels. There is just VoD content of scripted shows. No local news, weekend sports etc. And not sure all shows/episodes from the networks can be found in the VoD selection. Granted that OTA can plug this hole.

Also the standard cable channel selection, while pretty comprehensive, has a few holes like no A&E and no History Channel. 

Oh and there were a few bugs with the cloud dvr. I had some recordings that would loop or skip ahead randomly. Also My Shows (cloud dvr recordings) disappeared a few times. All of a sudden there was nothing there. A restart of my PS4 would take care of it for sure. And I think one time I got it back by exiting the app and going into something else and then coming back. 

And while the UI is pretty good in many areas even better than Tivo, it probably isn't quite as refined. There should be a home button if there isn't. But I might have missed it for all I know. I think using the game controller was a downside too. But that can be fixed on the PS4 with a media remote I would think. There's a thing that bugged me about the guide. IF you chose a day in the future and went forward past midnight it wouldn't go right into the next day. You'd have to go down and select the next day to see the next day's content. Nothing was a show stopper. But there are some annoyances.

Overall it's pretty promising considering the price. I did let the trial end and dropped the service. But am considering paying for it. Overall I think cable with Tivo is better but it's also more expensive. We're talking $35/mo for Vue vs the $70/mo I was paying for cable not including the cost of my $800 worth of Tivo equipment. IT's not quite apples to apples. But it's close if you can supplement with OTA or if the holes in Vue matter little to you.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Do you have any pictures of the GUI. I haven't been able to find anything substantial.


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## JuanRamos (Mar 31, 2004)

Has anybody been on Vue long enough to see the impact on their Internet usage? I'm curious to know if there are any stats out there for "average bandwidth consumption" for cord-cutters.

I'm already at 80% utilization of the 1TB/month allocated by Cox (on 150Mbps plan) and we have ~80 shows scheduled with OnePass. I'm guessing that moving away from cable would eat that remaining 200GB of bandwidth in a hurry which will give Cox the excuse to start charging for overages. I haven't heard about them charging in the Southwest yet, but I do know that are doing it on a regular basis in other parts of the country.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

JuanRamos said:


> Has anybody been on Vue long enough to see the impact on their Internet usage? I'm curious to know if there are any stats out there for "average bandwidth consumption" for cord-cutters.
> 
> I'm already at 80% utilization of the 1TB/month allocated by Cox (on 150Mbps plan) and we have ~80 shows scheduled with OnePass. I'm guessing that moving away from cable would eat that remaining 200GB of bandwidth in a hurry which will give Cox the excuse to start charging for overages. I haven't heard about them charging in the Southwest yet, but I do know that are doing it on a regular basis in other parts of the country.[/QUOTE/]
> 
> ...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JuanRamos said:


> Has anybody been on Vue long enough to see the impact on their Internet usage? I'm curious to know if there are any stats out there for "average bandwidth consumption" for cord-cutters.
> 
> I'm already at 80% utilization of the 1TB/month allocated by Cox (on 150Mbps plan) and we have ~80 shows scheduled with OnePass. I'm guessing that moving away from cable would eat that remaining 200GB of bandwidth in a hurry which will give Cox the excuse to start charging for overages. I haven't heard about them charging in the Southwest yet, but I do know that are doing it on a regular basis in other parts of the country.


Netflix uses a little over 3GB per hour of content. The average American watches about 5 hours of TV per day. So that's roughly 500GB/month.


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## redrouteone (Jun 16, 2001)

My cable company used to have a bandwidth meter, but now that I'm on an unlimited plan they don't have it anymore. I was typically around 350 to 400GB a month.


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