# OTA San Francisco KGO-TV (ch 7) freezes



## count_on_mike (Dec 15, 2008)

I have a TiVo HD XL. 

When I watch or record from OTA Ch 7-1 (KGO), the image freezes, stutters, and then the TiVo becomes unresponsive to the remote. This has made it impossible to watch the LOST reruns that I am taping. This problem first started about 4 weeks ago, but now happens all the time and makes 7-1 unwatchable and unrecordable.

The stuttering only happens on 7-1. Ch 7-2 is fine and my recordings from 7-2 are normal. All my other OTA channels are fine. The signal strength on 7.1 is 88 to 92.

My Samsumg TV and the Digital converter box have no problems with 7.1. I can watch 7.1 thru the Digital converter box on one TV and the TiVo on another TV and the TiVo will freeze, while the converter box is fine.

So I know this is a TiVo problem. It looks like a bad hard disk, however the problem is only with channel 7.1.

This thread is having a similar problem with ABC (7) in Los Angeles.
tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=432786

I rescanned the channels, but it did not tell me that ch 7 was new. Should I delete all my channels and scan again?

Is anyone else having this problem?

Thanks
Mike


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Whats on the other tuner, try changing the other tuner to an inactive channel to reduce disk i/o, see if it makes any difference.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

I can't offer any help, but I live in the Bay Area and I record Lost at Midnight all the time on (OTA) 7.1

It sounds like the signal is breaking up. Did you test the signal strength at that hour of the night? Just in case KGO is lowering their power at night maybe.


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## Lori S (Feb 3, 2009)

OMG. I am having the same problem with Channel 707 which is the comcast HD version of 7-1.

I watch for a few minutes, then the sound gets funky, then it clicks and pops and then freezes.
If I try to change the channel it can take over a minute sometimes to change.

IT IS INCREDIBLY IRRITATING.


What is the point of writing things here. These boards don't seem to be monitored.
I guess you can tell I'm a bit irritated by this lovely new TIVO feature.
It's been going on for a few weeks now.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I suggest calling Tivo and/or calling KGO.. That is, if you are absolutely sure you are receiving the same signal from two different devices connected to the same antenna, and it works on one and doesn't on the Tivo.


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## Lori S (Feb 3, 2009)

I called TIVO and yesterday I was told my signal is too hot so I should call Comcast and see if they can adjust my signal.
I called TIVO again this morning to see what OTHER reply I could get and today they said I needed to have Comcast perform a HOT reboot or something like that.
I think I'll call again and see what other answer they will give me.
I state the same problem each time and each time I am told something different.
I have had Comcast here so many times that the Comcast "suits" once came to my house because I escalated my issue to corporate headquarters.They blames my issues of PG and E.
I am only calling them again if I am GUARANTEED it is a Comcast issue.


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## Caesarv (Apr 5, 2008)

This sounds virtually identical to my post about "At the Movies" that I posted a few days ago which only involves Channel 707 (the HD version) on Comcast.

See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=432923

So is this a KGO problem or a Comcast issue? I sent a msg to KGO with links to these two threads, but am not sure what will come of it.

Edit: On Monday I got this reply from KGO...so at least now they know about it:


> Your email has been forwarded to our Engineering Department.
> Carol Mc Elroy
> KGO-TV/DT ABC7


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## instinct (Sep 10, 2009)

Add me to the list. I am also experiencing the same skipping and issues on HD 707 as well. None of the other channels are affected. I experience this problem on both of my TiVos, so it must be on KGO's side.

Any updates?


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## Lori S (Feb 3, 2009)

I've been escalated to level 2 at TIVO and I am in the process of getting the KGO engineer and the TIVO wizards together.
I thought the issue was fixed as I went over 24 hours with my TIVO on 707 and it was flawless. As an aside, when the president was talking last week, channel 707 performed flawlessly. I really do think that is relevant as it wasn't a broadcast generated by ABC/KGO/Channel 707.

I called TIVO late yesterday to see what they had done and while I was on the phone with them, it pixelated, stopped and started, refused to acknowledge the remote and I was back at square 1!
Lesson to me...don't call TIVO? just kidding but I was quite disappointed as I really thought it was fixed.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Lori S said:


> ........ As an aside, when the president was talking last week, channel 707 performed flawlessly. .............. it pixelated, stopped and started, refused to acknowledge the remote and I was back at square 1!
> Lesson to me...don't call TIVO? just kidding ............


Lesson to you: Don't listen to the President!  It was a delayed reaction -- your TiVo has a free-market soul. 

With the attention you're getting, it should be fixed soon.


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## instinct (Sep 10, 2009)

Lori S said:


> I've been escalated to level 2 at TIVO and I am in the process of getting the KGO engineer and the TIVO wizards together.
> I thought the issue was fixed as I went over 24 hours with my TIVO on 707 and it was flawless. As an aside, when the president was talking last week, channel 707 performed flawlessly. I really do think that is relevant as it wasn't a broadcast generated by ABC/KGO/Channel 707.
> 
> I called TIVO late yesterday to see what they had done and while I was on the phone with them, it pixelated, stopped and started, refused to acknowledge the remote and I was back at square 1!
> Lesson to me...don't call TIVO? just kidding but I was quite disappointed as I really thought it was fixed.


The skipping starts almost immediately after I tune to 707, so I am never able to watch any programming on that channel. If I am fast enough, I'm able to switch channels, otherwise, TiVo freezes and becomes unresponsive to the remote as well, and this can last several minutes...It is very frustrating!


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## Lori S (Feb 3, 2009)

I left the KGO engineer's phone number for the TIVO people that are now "researching" the issue.
So I went from Level 2 to research now with TIVO.
I found out that Research is in Colorado or Texas.
Today I was talking to someone in Kentucky.
I will call the Colorado level 2 dude tomorrow as I want to continue to speak to the same 2 people. 

Are all of you with the issue in the Bay Area?
I'm using Comcast/ Marin.


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## instinct (Sep 10, 2009)

Lori S said:


> I left the KGO engineer's phone number for the TIVO people that are now "researching" the issue.
> So I went from Level 2 to research now with TIVO.
> I found out that Research is in Colorado or Texas.
> Today I was talking to someone in Kentucky.
> ...


Yes, Comcast here.


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## johnny99 (Nov 10, 2008)

FWIW - I watch channel 7-1 OTA in San Jose with no problems.
I have heard that many people in my area have problems with channel 7-1 because of the VHF frequency is hard to pick up on smaller antennas. 7-1 is the only major local channel with this problem. A poor signal can lead to pixelization and some of the other symptoms you are seeing. Maybe there is an issue with the Tivo tuner? Maybe a signal amplifier will help you?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

johnny99 said:


> FWIW - I watch channel 7-1 OTA in San Jose with no problems.
> I have heard that many people in my area have problems with channel 7-1 because of the VHF frequency is hard to pick up on smaller antennas. 7-1 is the only major local channel with this problem. A poor signal can lead to pixelization and some of the other symptoms you are seeing. Maybe there is an issue with the Tivo tuner? Maybe a signal amplifier will help you?


Can you confirm that you have a TivoHD?

It sounds like this issue is (a) caused by Comcast, (b) caused by an inadequate off-air signal -- check your DVR Diagnostics screen, *or* (c) affects the TiVo Series3 and not the TivoHD.



count_on_mike said:


> I have a TiVo HD XL.
> 
> When I watch or record from OTA Ch 7-1 (KGO), the image freezes, stutters, and then the TiVo becomes unresponsive to the remote. This has made it impossible to watch the LOST reruns that I am taping. This problem first started about 4 weeks ago, but now happens all the time and makes 7-1 unwatchable and unrecordable.


When you are tuned to this channel, and you see the freezing / stutters, are there millions of RS Uncorrected errors under Messages & Settings -> System Information -> DVR Diagnostics?

If you see millions of RS Uncorrected errors, then your signal on that channel is inadequate. You need to repoint your antenna or you need a better antenna. As noted above, KGO moved its channel from UHF 24 to VHF 7, so earlier UHF-only antennas may no longer be able to pickup that channel.

The tuner in the TiVo (released in mid-2007) is not as sensitive as the tuners in some newer TVs and CECBs, so it requires a somewhat stronger signal. Your signal could be just barely adequate for the TV or CECB, but inadequate for the TiVo. Checking the signal error counts on the TiVo would help you determine that. If you still see the problem and your Uncorrected error counts are 0 (or less than thousands), then that indicates a different problem.


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## nine_again (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks all for posting. I thought my hard drive was failing. From what I am reading, it turns out it maybe specific to ABC channel 707 via the cable card. Basically as long as I have ABC on one of the tuners it can cause a problem. If I am on ch 707, it may freeze and I sometimes cannot change channels. FF or 30-sec skip does not work. Like others have posted, if luck I can change out of ch 707 to lets say 709 (one channel up), then I am okay.

Unfortunately I don't get the OTA 7-1 because they are upgrading the antenna in the SF bayarea. My area does not see the aux signal.

But if others are seeing the OTA 7-1 have problems, then it suggest that the ABC source fundamentally has problem.

I mean how can the OTA 7-1 and comcast ch 707 be cause similar problems?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

nine_again said:


> I mean how can the OTA 7-1 and comcast ch 707 be cause similar problems?


No one with problems on OTA 7-1 has yet indicated whether they are having reception signal problems. It's possible those with problems on the OTA feed just have a weak/insufficient signal.



nine_again said:


> Thanks all for posting. I thought my hard drive was failing. From what I am reading, it turns out it maybe specific to ABC channel 707 via the cable card. Basically as long as I have ABC on one of the tuners it can cause a problem. If I am on ch 707, it may freeze and I sometimes cannot change channels. FF or 30-sec skip does not work. Like others have posted, if luck I can change out of ch 707 to lets say 709 (one channel up), then I am okay.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't get the OTA 7-1 because they are upgrading the antenna in the SF bayarea. My area does not see the aux signal.


In many cases, cable providers get their local channel feed via fiber from the affiliate. In other cases, cable providers get their local channel feed from an antenna just like you.

Is it possible that Comcast is having antenna reception problems of its own?


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## count_on_mike (Dec 15, 2008)

Bkdtv,
I haven't checked the RS Uncorrected errors when OTA 7-1 gets jerky. I will do that.



bkdtv said:


> No one with problems on OTA 7-1 has yet indicated whether they are having reception signal problems. It's possible those with problems on the OTA feed just have a weak/insufficient signal.


Let me reiterate what works and doesn't work for my OTA reception.

7-1 is jerky, stutters and freezes. 
7-2 and 7-3 come in perfectly fine. 
Signal strength is 88-92. 
I have no problems receiving 7-1 on my Samsung TV or digital converter box.

Can I have reception signal problems if 7-2 is fine, signal strength >88 and great reception on a Samsung TV--all from the same antenna? I think my signal is fine. Back in the analog days, I had no ghosting on Ch. 7.

I can see how KGO can blame Comcast for 707 problems, but how can they dispute my OTA issues when 7-2 comes in fine? 7-1, 7-2 and 7-3 are all different MPEG streams on the same digital frequency.

I continue to think this is a ABC/TiVo encoding problem. But why isn't everyone seeing it? Is there some combination of hard disk content, Season Passes, display settings, ... that make us different? I have 129 episodes of Scrubs on my TiVo. 

Mike


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## Lori S (Feb 3, 2009)

I got calls from KGO and TIVO today.
I was quite pleased.
Today's theory is that KGO is sending the 7.1 High Def signal to Comcast and Comcast does whatever it does to make it be channel 707. Today's thought is that whatever Comcast is doing to make the signal show up as 707 is where the problem lies.

My hope is now that TIVO will contact Comcast.
I'm not sure what is worse than having to correct an issue with Comcast.


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## Lori S (Feb 3, 2009)

Running out the door.
Just got another call from KGO.

check your 707 and please let me know if you are still having a problem.
Hopefully, all is fixed.

Later.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> No one with problems on OTA 7-1 has yet indicated whether they are having reception signal problems. It's possible those with problems on the OTA feed just have a weak/insufficient signal.
> 
> In many cases, cable providers get their local channel feed via fiber from the affiliate. In other cases, cable providers get their local channel feed from an antenna just like you.
> 
> Is it possible that Comcast is having antenna reception problems of its own?


Comcast receives KGO's signal(707 on Comcast) via a fiber link at Sutro Tower and is distributed to headends through a fiber ring that feeds all around the SF bay area.

Possible issues with OTA channel 7-1 may have to do with some antenna(Sutro Tower) issues KGO was/is(?) having. The original poster may want to check the local OTA thread for San Francisco at AVS.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=369015&page=186

Regarding the KGO/Comcast problems noted here, I'm in Santa Rosa and haven't seen any of the freezing, lockups, etc. My first guess would be signal balancing problems on the Comcast node you're on. This can be very localized, even to a single Comcast node, do your neighbors have the same issues?


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## instinct (Sep 10, 2009)

Lori S said:


> Running out the door.
> Just got another call from KGO.
> 
> check your 707 and please let me know if you are still having a problem.
> ...


Lori,

I am not sure what miracle you were able to arrange, but my 707 is now working perfectly. Thank you for your persistence in getting this issue resolved. Did the engineers tell you know what was wrong exactly?

Take care!


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## count_on_mike (Dec 15, 2008)

Lori, 
Thank You for the miracle, too.

Whatever Ch. 7 did, my OTA reception is a lot better. Last night, I watched my weekend recording of Lost and there were only 3 very slight glitches. I panicked at each one, but Tivo kept going.

Thanks for you persistence with KGO engineering. I had called three times and left messages, but no one called me back.

Mike


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## Lori S (Feb 3, 2009)

Frustration sends me into overdrive sometimes and after getting some grief here I was determined to get this fixed. I have spoken to the TIVO people a number of times and honestly, they have been incredibly useless. I am REALLY disappointed in them.

It gives me tremendous pleasure to know that this problem i now fixed. 
Now I am on a quest to find a way to back up my TIVO drive periodically so if anything goes wrong, I can still save my programs.


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## burlingamedad (Jan 22, 2012)

Apologies if I posted this on the wrong thread, but this was the closest place I could find.

For anyone who lives in the Bay Area and is trying to set up OTA (Over the air) with a TIVO Premiere, has purchased a "HDTV" antenna, and is not receiving the ABC affiliate, KGO, this is a summary of how I solved the problem.

1) KGO in San Francisco broadcasts on a VHF frequency, as opposed to the majority of other broadcasters in the Bay Area who use UHF frequencies.

2) Most "HDTV" antennas are UHF-only (something I didn't know). I was getting great signal on every "other" channel on my Tivo Premiere, but "Zero" on Channel 7.1 (KGO).

3) The solution was: 

I bought a very cheap ($30) VHF/UHF antenna from Amazon (PCT International CM2016 Channel Master Television Antenna)
I mounted it on my roof (VERY crudely, as you can see from the photo), and pointed towards San Francisco
I used exactly the same coaxial cable that used to go from my DirecTV dish to my TV room (look for filters and remove them)
It's a good safety idea to make sure you attach a grounding wire (to protect from lightning, etc) Search Amazon for "coax grounding block"
The AVS Forums have excellent posts from people FAR more informed than me --please search and read the instructions on safely mounting an antenna

Picture below -- hope this info helps someone else.


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## bountyhunter (Feb 16, 2012)

bkdtv said:


> No one with problems on OTA 7-1 has yet indicated whether they are having reception signal problems. It's possible those with problems on the OTA feed just have a weak/insufficient signal.
> 
> In many cases, cable providers get their local channel feed via fiber from the affiliate. In other cases, cable providers get their local channel feed from an antenna just like you.
> 
> Is it possible that Comcast is having antenna reception problems of its own?


The problem is KGO. I am in San Jose. I have two separate over air antenna systems feeding TV converters in my home and KGO is absolutely unrelaible. Normally, the signal is rock solid at about 95/100 on the signal gain meter and at random, it starts dropping in and out. In some cases, the signal goes to zero for a few minutes.

My "monster" VHF antenna (about 16 feet long, rated for about 150 miles) can usually hold signal although it shows cut outs and skips. My "smaller" VHF antenna (rated for about 120 miles) will usually just show pixilation then a blank screen with 'weak signal" screen. In some cases the signal goes to zero.

KGO needs to fix this, it happens quite often seems to be worst at night.

I don't have this problem on any other channels.


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