# Roamio Pros repeatedly rebooting when networked



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

As a heads-up and simultaneous mutter for help...

Both of our Roamio Pro units have been repeatedly rebooting, today, whenever they're connected to the LAN (via Ethernet). If I disconnect the Ethernet cable from either, they run fine -- but are, of course, inaccessible from our Minis.

Box: Roamio Pros (2x: 6TB and 8TB; 2845 & 3263 shows; 85% & 90% full; 357 & 238 OnePasses)
OS: 20.7.4.*RC30*
Network: Ethernet

Location: Illinois
Provider: Comcast (CATV/BB)​
The same thing happened to both boxes a few days before the Super Bowl, as well, but they were reconnected after a couple hours and had been fine since. Until today.

I've reconnected one of the boxes to Ethernet and it's rebooted twice more, and counting(?). I made a successful service connection between the reboots, with no "pending restart" showing, and the box made it to just over 481 seconds "since OOB tune start" before rebooting again.

---
Rebooted at:
- 481+s
- 495+s

edit: 
======
p.s. Two additional reports of the issue: DPF, byonik


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Anybody have any quick tips on how I could configure an ASUS router to block all Internet connectivity for a single device? 

I'd like to test a software/firewall block of the DVR, to see if I could have the Ethernet cable reconnected and allow Mini access... but maybe prevent whatever's tripping-up our DVRs.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Bad art work? If we get the RC29 update on Monday (or sooner) it might be the fix. Who knows what evil hides in those generic icons?

My cable card status menu has run time in dddd:hh:mm to save conversion.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Anybody have any quick tips on how I could configure an ASUS router to block all Internet connectivity for a single device?
> I'd like to test a software/firewall block of the DVR, to see if I could have the Ethernet cable reconnected and allow Mini access... but maybe prevent whatever's tripping-up our DVRs.


IP addresses used: 208.73.49.202, but i.TiVo.com looks like 207.44.112.203 which is akimai. I think they do the thumbnails. I can test it.

Tested: blocking i.tivo.com gets me generic icons. But you already get generic icons, so I don't know if that will help.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> IP addresses used: 208.73.49.202, but i.TiVo.com looks like 207.44.112.203 which is akimai. I think they do the thumbnails. I can test it.


I was thinking more along the lines of blocking an internal IP address from any Internet connectivity.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> My cable card status menu has run time in dddd:hh:mm to save conversion.


I'll look for that after my next reboot. Should start in a few .... ha!! ... seconds. OOB was getting close to 500, and, yep, rebooted, right between "few" and "seconds."

p.s. Might let it reboot one more time, and then disconnect it until I can try the firewall blockade.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I don't know the exact model, but check URL access. I use Netgear, sorry.

I just scanned the RT-N66U manual. Noting on blocking a URL. The N68U has that ability.

The timing of your reboot sounds like the initial VCM connection after any restart. A service connection is usually about 20 minutes after a restart.


----------



## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Mine has rebooted twice in the last 15 minutes. Both times while watching something on Netflix.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Giving Parental Controls a try... we shall see.

RT-AC1900P - Prevent device access to WAN

edit: Seems to be working. I've left one Roamio Pro disconnected from Ethernet, but the other is again on the LAN but blocked from Internet access via the ASUS' Parental Controls dialog... and it hasn't yet rebooted. Once the users have hit the hay I'll remove the parental block and see if the box resumes rebooting. Joy.

p.s. TiVo service connection not possible, blocked by the router's parental controls; but a good thing, in this case.








​


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

Looking for help on this, my roamio plus started doing this today as well. As long as Ethernet is unplugged, no problem.

Plug in Ethernet, reboots every five minutes. Minis are of course useless.

Looking for options.

Thanks! 
-DPF


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DPF said:


> Looking for help on this, my roamio plus started doing this today as well. As long as Ethernet is unplugged, no problem.
> 
> Plug in Ethernet, reboots every five minutes. Minis are of course useless.


My Minis are again functional because I managed to block my two Roamio Pros from accessing the Internet, via a router blockade. It's not a solution, just a temporary workaround to give us access to the DVRs from the Minis. Without an Internet connection, the DVRs remain hobbled.

I'm about to open a path for one of them to see if the situation has changed.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

If there was ever a reason to allow user access to control updates you have it. Every device I use has some user control. Maybe not the Roku. At least TiVo could have a URL that lets people have a choice, like the DVR+. It's not like there is no USB port. I guess this is an example of following tradition and not thinking outside the box. Stuff happens, so be prepared.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Stuff happens, so be prepared.


^^^


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> I'm about to open a path for one of them to see if the situation has changed.


Nope, allowing access to the Internet for the DVR has triggered a reboot. Noice. I'll leave it connected as-is for a bit longer to confirm the same 500s reboot window.

edit1: Oof. The reboot window was much shorter than 500s, and by so much that I hadn't yet gotten around to checking where "since OOB tune start" stood.

edit2: Ok, I'm going to have to just sit here and stare at the diag screen. The reboot is happening much more quickly today.

edit3: Looks like around 210s is the reboot window, now, rather than 500s.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DPF said:


> Looking for help on this, my roamio plus started doing this today as well. As long as Ethernet is unplugged, no problem.
> 
> Plug in Ethernet, reboots every five minutes.


Unlikely to be related, but did you sign your DVR up for IFTTT integration?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> edit2: Ok, I'm going to have to just sit here and stare at the diag screen. The reboot is happening much more quickly today.


That's a sad way to spend a Saturday. Have you blocked a specific URL or just pulled the plug?

Not that I can make much from it, but have you looked at your logs? I find the tclient log has a lot of network stuff.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> That's a sad way to spend a Saturday. Have you blocked a specific URL or just pulled the plug?
> 
> Not that I can make much from it, but have you looked at your logs? I find the tclient log has a lot of network stuff.


Chuckle. I just meant I needed to pay a bit closer attention for a cycle or two to see if the reboot window had changed, and, if so, to what. On the bright side, it's rebooting much more frequently now, so it won't take long to verify the timeframe.

And, no, I've looked at nothing. Don't even know how to look at a TiVo's logs, though I probably should, by now.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> And, no, I've looked at nothing. Don't even know how to look at a TiVo's logs, though I probably should, by now.


The logs are a big black hole. They are also in SD, so no sound or video. Access: Clear Clear Enter Enter 0 while in SI. I usually skip to tclient. Looking at them when stuff is ok is helpful since you don't see the word "failure". When stuff is broken there are a lot of failure messages. Also, I have no idea of the displayed time zone. I just check the minutes & seconds.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Yikes. There's a lot o' noise in them thar logs. Trouble is... with the boxes blocked from the Internet, I have a ton of failures of various sorts... and the logs appear to reset after reboots, so it may be difficult to see any error event before the box resets. I might monitor a log or two, anyway, for a couple reboots, but plan on leaving things as-is -- just the DVRs blocked from Internet access -- until maybe early week, hoping the update hits early.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Both of our Roamio Pro units have been repeatedly rebooting, today, whenever they're connected to the LAN (via Ethernet). If I disconnect the Ethernet cable from either, they run fine -- but are, of course, inaccessible from our Minis.
> 
> Box: Roamio Pro (upgraded, to 6TB and 8TB, 2000+ shows each)
> OS: 20.7.4.*RC30*


I assume since you have 6TB and 8TB drives you started with fresh drives, not copy and expand with MFS Tools (since limit is 4TB from what I understand). I am wondering if some problems are being caused by using large drives like these or even smaller ones like mine (3-4TB). Mine have all been installed with MFS Tools copy and expand. Maybe some updates are causing problems with really large drives or even not quite as large copy and expanded drives? I just had a problem with my Roamio Basic 3TB, almost all shows in my wish list folders went out of the folders, they are still there but as individual shows. Hundreds of them (I have thousands of total shows on the drive also). What a mess. My drive is over 90% full, wonder if the problems start when drive is getting full, ie thousands of shows. I created a post about it, mostly wanted to see if anyone had the same problem recently. I have other strange glitches occasionally, since a lot of "bugs" at Tivo since Rovi just assumed it was caused by a bug, wonder if the root cause is the drive (though none of this ever happened pre Rovi)

I had a Roamio Plus that was rebooting like yours (not even expanded, standard drive). It was not the drive, I even tried other drives. Never was able to figure it out, Tivo was nice enough to send me a different unit for $49 I think. The one thing I was able to isolate was the "Tivo Service Level", it is usually "C" with a date. On mine it would keep switching back and forth between "C" and some other letters, can't remember what they were exactly. If I unplugged and plugged it back in it would go to "C" again but would then switch back to the other letters after awhile and start rebooting again, if not "C" it seemed to trigger a reboot. Maybe take a look at your Tivo Service Level sometimes and see if this is happening to you. Not sure if knowing that would help with your current issue, they had to send me a different box as I mentioned. I HOPE all the glitches (including mine with the shows going out of the wish list folders) are NOT a function of using large drives, copy and expand or starting fresh as you must have done..................


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

FWIW, I too am having this issue with my Roamio Pro, which also has an 8TB HDD. 

The issue started last night (Fri 3/9). Removing the Ethernet cable stops the incessant reboots. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

No reboots here. Roamio pro with moca. 3TB HDD. RC30 missing artwork too.

Have you tried via WiFi or changed network connection? Maybe try just removing the mini's from instead of the pros?


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

I'm hoping to try going to WiFi when I get back home on the roamio plus.

I was hardwire Ethernet.

At least that would rule out networking hardware on the hardwire side of it continues to reboot on the Wi-Fi.

Nothing like spending Saturday troubleshooting.

-DPF


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Yep, just MFS Reformatter, and they hadn't exhibited this behavior (i.e. continual rebooting) until recently, the first time being just before the Super Bowl.

That the problem only happens when connected to the Internet leads me away from the drives as the cause, although ... KMTTG used to trigger reboots on just these boxes because of the delay in KMTTG pulling down the larger than average show listing, until @moyekj adjusted the download to grab the listing in smaller chunks (IIRC). I wouldn't be surprised if the root cause is a combination of the large capacity drive and the associated number of shows, and the current "generic artwork" glitch.


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

Right, I'm starting to wonder about the whole generic artwork thing.

Was there any kind of push yesterday?

I think I also have a large capacity drive expanded with mfs. It's been a while so I don't exactly remember what it has. Been rock solid for about three years though. Only recently, like yesterday, did this start getting strange.

-DPF


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

@DPF, any chance "Naper-thrill" is a hilarious nickname for Naperville, Illinois, and you're *also* using Comcast for Internet and TV service? My rebooting Pros are down in West Central Illinois, and are serviced via Comcast.

So I'm wondering if Comcast or our geo-location may also be a commonality, and whether this has us connecting to the same potentially problematic TiVo servers.

@byonik, any chance you're in Illinois and/or using Comcast?


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Yep, just MFS Reformatter, and they hadn't exhibited this behavior (i.e. continual rebooting) until recently, the first time being just before the Super Bowl.
> 
> That the problem only happens when connected to the Internet leads me away from the drives as the cause, although ... KMTTG used to trigger reboots on just these boxes because of the delay in KMTTG pulling down the larger than average show listing, until @moyekj adjusted the download to grab the listing in smaller chunks (IIRC). I wouldn't be surprised if the root cause is a combination of the large capacity drive and the associated number of shows, and the current "generic artwork" glitch.


The Roamio that was rebooting for me, disconnecting it from the internet did solve the reboot problem. That service level or something related to it seemed to be the cause. When it was "C", no problems. When not "C", it would try to connect to the internet, then that would trigger the reboots. What was causing it to go from "C" to the other letters no one ever figured out. Could happen at any time, just watching a show, whatever, not at a scheduled guide connection. Though I guess Tivo is always connected to the server, even when not doing an update, that is probably what was causing it to go from "C" to some other letter seemingly randomly.


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

Bingo, on all counts.

Naperville, Comcast, internet and tv.

-DPF


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

So, does anybody know what would happen to my 6TB expanded drive if I were to temporarily remove it from the Pro, so that I could try a fresh 3TB drive. Would the 6TB drive still retain all its recordings and settings if I were to then swap it back in after testing the 3TB drive?

I've seen reports that swapping drives in this way has been resulting in the "before" drives no longer being recognized by the DVR when reinserted.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

rdrrepair said:


> No reboots here. Roamio pro with moca. 3TB HDD. RC30 missing artwork too.
> 
> Have you tried via WiFi or changed network connection? Maybe try just removing the mini's from instead of the pros?


Interesting idea to try an alternate network connection, just to try it out. But what's this "moca" thing?


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> So, does anybody know what would happen to my 6TB expanded drive if I were to temporarily remove it from the Pro, so that I could try a fresh 3TB drive. Would the 6TB drive still retain all its recordings and settings if I were to then swap it back in after testing the 3TB drive?
> 
> I've seen reports that swapping drives in this way has been resulting in the "before" drives no longer being recognized by the DVR when reinserted.


I was going to suggest that, especially if you have the original 3TB drive. Only thing is, since RC30 is no longer being pushed you would not be able to test it with RC30. As for swapping drives, I've done it a few times with Roamios, no problems, for ME. Bolts you cannot, every time you swap a drive the old one pretty much loses everything. The Roamio, even though it worked for me, pulled a drive, put in a different one, then put the current drive back in, it still could be a risk (especially 6TB with thousands of recordings). I'm not sure how swapping affects the onboard flash drive.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Interesting idea to try an alternate network connection, just to try it out. But what's this "moca" thing?


Haha on the Moca  With my rebooting Roamio I did try different network connections, direct Ethernet, Wifi, I think Moca, made no difference.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tommage1 said:


> The one thing I was able to isolate was the "Tivo Service Level", it is usually "C" with a date.


Sure would be nice to be able to get a text file of the System Information screen, in order to do a quick text diff.

edit: As it currently reads, with my box blocked from the Internet... drum roll...

TiVo Service Account Status: 5: Product Lifetime Service
*TiVo Service Level:  C: 040518
*​p.s. Also...
8TB Pro: *C: 033118*
3TB 4-tuner Roamio (OTA)*: C: 040418

* NOT rebooting​


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Sure would be nice to be able to get a text file of the System Information screen, in order to do a quick text diff.


This was probably a half a year ago. I did create a post about it. Since your Ethernet is disconnected right now check your system information screen and see if it shows "C" for service level and what date. If not next time you hookup the internet it will probably try to connect, then it will trigger the reboots again. Even if "C" maybe reconnect the Ethernet and "monitor" it for awhile, if you see it change to anything other than "C" you can probably expect an reboot, soon.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

You reboot seems so reproducible. Just curious: next startup, hit the guide. Sit in the guide since there will be no calling home.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tommage1 said:


> Haha on the Moca  With my rebooting Roamio I did try different network connections, direct Ethernet, Wifi, I think Moca, made no difference.


Yeah, I'm expecting it won't help, as well, but always good to rule things out. 'Cause you know TiVo Support will suggest it. (Though I'm wondering how quickly they'd hang up on hearing "8TB drive.")


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Sit in the guide since there will be no calling home.


I'm confused by this suggestion. With Internet access restored sit in the guide? Does something prevent any connections home if in the guide?


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, I'm expecting it won't help, as well, but always good to rule things out. 'Cause you know TiVo Support will suggest it. (Though I'm wondering how quickly they'd hang up on hearing "8TB drive.")


I would not even tell them the drive has been upgraded/swapped. But good luck anyway, support nowadays, seems to me they just look things up in a book or something. They TRY but don't have the training/knowledge for anything out of the ordinary.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Sure would be nice to be able to get a text file of the System Information screen, in order to do a quick text diff.
> 
> edit: As it currently reads, with my box blocked from the Internet... drum roll...
> 
> ...


That is good. Since it is C now and a late date maybe try hooking up the internet again. Gets tricky then, it might try to do a guide update right away. If it does check to see if still C after the update (or force it yourself to get a "starting point") But then you actually have to monitor it, see if it changes while just watching TV or doing nothing. Since random (seemingly) don't know when/if it will happen (your problem may be totally unrelated to my experience of course). With my rebooting Roamio, I monitored the guide update times, usually once a day or so, but with the problem device it kept scheduling them a LOT, many times per day, even per hour, sometimes 1/2 hour after the last update.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tommage1 said:


> I would not even tell them the drive has been upgraded/swapped. But good luck anyway, support nowadays, seems to me they just look things up in a book or something. They TRY but don't have the training/knowledge for anything out of the ordinary.


Yeah, I'm hoping the occasional mention of @TiVo_Ted might draw his attention to the issue, as it could relate to the "generic art" problem.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, I'm hoping the occasional mention of @TiVo_Ted might draw his attention to the issue, as it could relate to the "generic art" problem.


Got to be a bit careful with that. Since non stock drives they really have no "obligation" to fix it, if drive related. Even IF they tested these updates before pushing them (obviously not with RC30), their tests would be limited to stock devices. Telling them you are not using stock drives could lead to complications in the future?..............


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> I'm confused by this suggestion. With Internet access restored sit in the guide? Does something prevent any connections home if in the guide?


Ok, bad idea. But yes, no thumbnails means no calls.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Ok, bad idea. But yes, no thumbnails means no calls.


Would the Guide being displayed be any better than just live TV (since live TV will be playing, regardless)? Well, we'll see...


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

For another reference, my service level:

C: 033118

So that's same as one of your pros, not that that means anything yet.

-DPF


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Would the Guide being displayed be any better than just live TV (since live TV will be playing, regardless)? Well, we'll see...


Well if it's being connected to the Tivo server that is causing the issue (ie not connected in "guide" only) it could make a difference. Would tell you being connected to the server, not just guide updates is causing the problem. Live TV or anything with pictures I guess you would be connected to the server, based on what I have read here.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tommage1 said:


> Well if it's being connected to the Tivo server that is causing the issue (ie not connected in "guide" only) it could make a difference. Would tell you being connected to the server, not just guide updates is causing the problem. Live TV or anything with pictures I guess you would be connected to the server, based on what I have read here.


Also, the artwork comes from Akamai. I wished TiVo had rolled out RC29 yesterday. Or at least brought back the priority signup page. I'm just speculating that there is something evil in the artwork, or the artwork acquisition area that is causing the restart.


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

Update, so far.

Came home and connected via Wi-Fi, instead of Ethernet.

I also had cleaned out some recordings and shut off suggestions.

So far, no reboots after half an hour. Forced a connection and service level went up to C:040818

Later today I'll go back to Ethernet in an attempt to make it fail again.

-DPF


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I was going to switch to MoCA, but that'll have to wait until later tonight, or overnight, as I need to retrieve my MoCA spare parts from across town. So here goes w/ Wi-Fi...


edit: p.s. So far no reboots on Wi-Fi, but it's only been a few minutes. Fingers crossed. Taking the dog out for fetches...


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

No reboot issues on any of my Roamios (2 Pros on RC30 & 1 basic on RC18), and as you can probably guess they all have MFSR drives.

ISP issue? I'm on Comcast Houston and 100% ethernet.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ggieseke said:


> No reboot issues on any of my Roamios (2 Pros on RC30 & 1 basic on RC18), and as you can probably guess they all have MFSR drives.
> 
> ISP issue? I'm on Comcast Houston and 100% ethernet.


What are the drive capacities, %full and # of shows... if you can spare the time to check/post that info? (thx)



krkaufman said:


> Box: Roamio Pro (6TB and 8TB; 2845 & 3263 shows; 85% & 90% full)
> OS: 20.7.4.*RC30*
> Network: Ethernet
> 
> ...



p.s. I don't suspect it's an MFSr issue, so much as MFSr allowed me to use 6TB & 8TB capacity drives, and, maybe, the sheer number of recordings is playing a part. I'd love to hear back from @byonik on their setup, though.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> I was going to switch to MoCA, but that'll have to wait until later tonight, or overnight, as I need to retrieve my MoCA spare parts from across town. So here goes w/ Wi-Fi...
> edit: p.s. So far no reboots on Wi-Fi, but it's only been a few minutes. Fingers crossed. Taking the dog out for fetches...


When changing to WiFi, other things change. For me it's a different IP address. For the Roamio it's a different path for data, same for the router. But past the router nothing should be different. Usually my Mini gets upset until I power cycle it too. TiVo's networking is close to voodoo.


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Two of them are hovering at about 90%, the other one is a summer sale Pro that I bought for development and it doesn't have any recordings.

I've been seeing a few reboot threads in the last few days, but nothing that seems to be specific to larger drives or MFSR.

Roamio on Hydra reboots on My Shows


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> When changing to WiFi, other things change. For me it's a different IP address. For the Roamio it's a different path for data, same for the router. But past the router nothing should be different. Usually my Mini gets upset until I power cycle it too. TiVo's networking is close to voodoo.


Heh, that's something to consider. Do a power reset of all my network gear. I'll need to check w/ the "users" to find a convenient window; Gamerboy will be loathe to disconnect.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> When changing to WiFi, other things change. For me it's a different IP address. For the Roamio it's a different path for data, same for the router. But past the router nothing should be different. Usually my Mini gets upset until I power cycle it too. TiVo's networking is close to voodoo.


I'm wondering if one more thing that changes between Ethernet and Wi-Fi is the Roamio's internal expectation with how fast a given operation should complete, before its internal watchdog process decides a process may be hung and triggers a reboot. (Trying to cling to the "# of recordings" theory.)


----------



## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Given all the stuff that I've seen people talking about lately (RC30, unexpected reboots, etc), I'm leaning toward the "bad data for a specific region" theory and all of my Roamios are running normally.

I guess timeouts could cause it, but if that's the case why would WIFI be any improvement? I've been looking at TiVo code for decades and I've never seen any hint that the connection method affects how long it waits for a response.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

ggieseke said:


> I'm leaning toward the "bad data for a specific region" theory ...


How would Wi-Fi be a factor in this case?

I'll definitely want to test MoCA later tonight, since the MoCA hardware seems more closely tied to the Ethernet interface. (Could be something at the driver level. ???)


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

I'm going on four hours with no reboots on Wi-Fi.

Unfortunately, I have to be out this afternoon. Hopefully this evening I'll be able to go back to Ethernet. Since while on Wi-Fi the roamio can't also be the moca bridge, so the minis are still out of commission.

I don't think that's a factor in the not rebooting since the minis were attached by moca to the roamio when it was not connected to Ethernet and no reboots then. So far, Ethernet to the roamio is the only factor producing an effect. 

The best thing would be tonight I go back to Ethernet and it starts rebooting. Then we've turned it on and off. If the whole thing has magically healed and it doesn't reboot on Ethernet, we may never know what happened. We'll see.

-DPF


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DPF said:


> I'm going on four hours with no reboots on Wi-Fi.


Approaching 3 hours, here; have it tuned to HBO playing live TV, and I've disabled Power Saving. I'll be heading out for a few hours and will hopefully find it still playing away when I get home. I'll give a MoCA _client_ connection a try tonight. (And a full power reset sometime overnight.)


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

8 1/2 hours w/o a reboot when on Wi-Fi, with Internet access and a couple successful service connections. Just switched to a MoCA *client* connection, and initiated a service connection. Currently in progress (and slow-going on "Loading info" -- jeebus, like software update slow... but unfortunately not; just slow loading).


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

In still good as well. Ethernet connection overnight. Moca bridge enabled as well. Forced a few connections, set singe recordings, watched recorded shows through minis as well.

No reboots.

So functionality, at least for the last ten hours, is back. We'll see if it holds. Don't know if TiVo fixed something (artwork?), if something else fixed it (switching between network methods), or cleaning out the hdd and turning off suggestions.

We'll see how it goes.
-DPF


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DPF said:


> In still good as well. Ethernet connection overnight.


Ah, ok, so the problem may have subsided by the time I got around to my MoCA test. I'll switch back to Ethernet and see how it goes. Thanks for the feedback.

edit: 4+ hours later after switching back to Ethernet and no reboots. In fact, it's been over 24 hours since the last reboot, prior to switching to Wi-Fi (followed by MoCA). Have to wonder if just the switching away from Ethernet then back was sufficient to tweak things back into alignment; will have to try flipping to Wi-Fi and back sooner, next time.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Someone reported an issue with a Roamio rebooting when they had a recording of a specific show (thiswas on Hydra though) which might indicate some guide data related issue and perhaps you were seeing something similar. No reboots here on Roamio Pro with 3TB drive and gen 3 UI (used MFSR to align partitions).

Found the post.

Roamio on Hydra reboots on My Shows

Are you recording "Gimme a Break" too? 

Scott


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> Also, the artwork comes from Akamai. I wished TiVo had rolled out RC29 yesterday. Or at least brought back the priority signup page. *I'm just speculating that there is something evil in the artwork*, or the artwork acquisition area that is causing the restart.


Ooh, something diabolical or satanic going on here . . . .


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> Someone reported an issue with a Bolt rebooting when they had a recording of a specific show (I think that was on Hydra though) which might indicate some guide data related issue and perhaps you were seeing something similar.


Yeah, @cwoody222, but, IIRC, they found they could trigger the reboots when scrolling My Shows and crossing paths with the problematic show; our reboots have been automatic, sans user intervention, even with the units just tuning and displaying live TV. I can't rule out some common root cause, but that our problem was only experienced when connected via Ethernet would seem to indicate otherwise.

p.s. Re: 


HerronScott said:


> No reboots here on Roamio Pro with 3TB drive and gen 3 UI (used MFSR to align partitions).


How many recordings, total, do you have? _(looking to compare to our totals, 2845 & 3263 for 6TB & 8TB drives, respectively) _And provider, general geographic region?


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> How many recordings, total, do you have? _(looking to compare to our totals, 2845 & 3263 for 6TB & 8TB drives, respectively) _And provider, general geographic region?


We're on Comcast in Virginia and the Roamio Pro is at 97% capacity with 1015 recordings (a number of movies recorded) and the original 3TB drive.

Scott


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DPF said:


> I think I also have a large capacity drive expanded with mfs. It's been a while so I don't exactly remember what it has.


@DPF, @byonik, can you report how many recordings you have on the box?

This info is available via KMTTG or directly via web browser access, using the IP address of the DVR and a username/password of "tivo"/{Media Access Key/MAK}, via:

https://{ipaddress}​You'll need to scroll to the bottom of the grouped listing and select "classic" to toggle to the non-grouped view, and then return to the bottom of the listing to see the total number of recordings, the "out of NNN total items" value.

e.g. https://192.168.0.139/nowplaying/index.html?Recurse=Yes

"50 items, (out of *2870 *total items) ..."​


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Is it still rebooting on ethernet? Can you capture the data live with wireshark and connecting the roamio to a hub to see if you can correlate specific network activity with the reboot?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sfhub said:


> Is it still rebooting on ethernet? Can you capture the data live with wireshark and connecting the roamio to a hub to see if you can correlate specific network activity with the reboot?


Sadly, no, it's not rebooting anymore.  I'll have to prep the tools necessary for that capture for the next go-'round. Good advice.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Sadly, no, it's not rebooting anymore.


I misspoke. My test box that I flipped to Wi-Fi and then MoCA is not rebooting, but my other Pro that has remained configured for Ethernet-only began rebooting, again, shortly after I removed the Parental Controls block in my router. Currently using a video camera to see if I can capture any log messages prior to the crash/restart; may then block its Internet access, again, to see if I can scrabble together some data capture.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Currently using a video camera to see if I can capture any log messages prior to the crash/restart; may then block its Internet access, again, to see if I can scrabble together some data capture.


So I was able to capture a few screengrabs from the 'tverr' log just before the previous reboot, which I've pieced together as a single image. I need to download and process the video to see if I was able to capture more info via that route.







​


----------



## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

krkaufman said:


> So I was able to capture a few screengrabs from the 'tverr' log just before the previous reboot, which I've pieced together as a single image. I need to download and process the video to see if I was able to capture more info via that route.
> 
> View attachment 33310
> ​


"Input ring buffer OVERFLOW, will restart" points to a programming bug. Also check kernel and 0kernel logs.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Further log monitoring will have to wait until Monday. Can't interfere w Sunday night viewing.


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> @DPF, @byonik, can you report how many recordings you have on the box?
> 
> This info is available via KMTTG or directly via web browser access, using the IP address of the DVR and a username/password of "tivo"/{Media Access Key/MAK}, via:
> 
> ...


Sorry I went radio silent on you guys. Busy weekend. Here's my TiVo bio:

SW Version: 20.7.4.RC30-840-6-840
Service Level: C: 040718
8TB WD Red (MFSR)

My Roamio is connected to my LAN via wired Ethernet. I currently have it blocked from the internet via my router's access controls. I temporarily disabled the access control rule about 30 minutes ago, and the reboots resumed.

I recently did a big purge, so I'm down to just 2195 shows (41% utilization). I also have Comcast and I'm located in Virginia (D.C. Metro).

I have four minis. One of them is MoCa connected; the other three are connected via Ethernet. I am also using my Roamio as a MoCa bridge, so I don't use WiFi (though I may play around with that based on your experiences).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DPF (Mar 20, 2003)

I can't get the access to work right to see the number of shows.

I deleted about 250 shows and it took me from 97% full to about 80% full.

I believe my capacity is 900 and change hours of HD.

I'm at 80% right now.

Still working fine. Again, not sure if cleaning of hdd helped, stopping suggestions, or if there was just something bad on tivos end that they've corrected. But I seem to be ok now. Back to my original hardwired Ethernet and moca bridge to the minis. Everything is happy, all day.

-DPF


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

Also - a little off topic, but thought I would mention that the impetus for the big purge was that I was experiencing random reboots when accessing the NPL. This was happening both locally and also when accessing it remotely (KMTTG, TiVo app). 

The purge didn’t really seem to make a difference, but what DID make a difference was disabling all streaming from my One Passes (had about 120 of them). I used KMTTG to backup and restore one passes, but changed them all to ‘Linear’ before restoring them. 

Anything dependent on the NPL is much snappier now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

DPF said:


> I can't get the access to work right to see the number of shows.
> 
> I deleted about 250 shows and it took me from 97% full to about 80% full.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear it's still hanging in there for you. I'm gonna try the same thing now that the family has gone to bed. Fingers crossed!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

Anyone else seeing an incorrect date for Last Successful VCM Connection? Mine shows 12/31/1969. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> 8 1/2 hours w/o a reboot when on Wi-Fi, with Internet access and a couple successful service connections. Just switched to a MoCA *client* connection, and initiated a service connection. Currently in progress (and slow-going on "Loading info" -- jeebus, like software update slow... but unfortunately not; just slow loading).


Just switched to WiFi and forced a connection and am getting the same result you did. 'Getting info' was very quick but 'Loading info' is taking forever (though it does appear to be progressing).

Er wait - spoke to soon. Just rebooted on me without completing the update. Sigh....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

byonik said:


> Anyone else seeing an incorrect date for Last Successful VCM Connection? Mine shows 12/31/1969.


That date will display after any restart until the first connection is successful.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI...


TiVo_Ted said:


> RC29 is rolling out over the next 2 nights. 840 and 848 units tonight, 846 tomorrow night. To be safe, we're moving all BOLT's back to the same release as well, so those will downgrade to RC29 as well.


Though even if this rollback could fix a rebooting box, the box would need to stay up long enough to download and install the software.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

byonik said:


> Just switched to WiFi and forced a connection and am getting the same result you did. 'Getting info' was very quick but 'Loading info' is taking forever (though it does appear to be progressing).
> 
> Er wait - spoke to soon. Just rebooted on me without completing the update. Sigh....


Well that throws a wrench in a working hypothesis.


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

After another full day of reboots and failed updates, I finally tried WiFi again and this time the update completed. I’ve been rolled back to RC29. 

Now back to Ethernet to see if the incessant reboots are gone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

And before I could switch back to Ethernet, another spontaneous reboot. Ouch. This really sucks. 

Edit: Back to Ethernet and still rebooting every 3 minutes. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

byonik said:


> Also - a little off topic, but thought I would mention that the impetus for the big purge was that I was experiencing random reboots when accessing the NPL. This was happening both locally and also when accessing it remotely (KMTTG, TiVo app).


Maybe strictly off-topic, but I was going to ask if anyone was generally experiencing instability with their high capacity DVRs with 2000+ shows, prior to this latest adventure. Both of our DVRs reboot pretty regularly, often when navigating the UI from the host or a connected Mini.

I may try resetting all our OnePasses on one of the boxes, as you've suggested, to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

byonik said:


> And before I could switch back to Ethernet, another spontaneous reboot. Ouch. This really sucks.


Hear, hear.


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

So it’s official. Back to RC29, and nothing’s changed. Same exact consistent reboot behavior i had with RC30 when connected to the internet. 

This basically confirms that the trigger(s) are externally-hosted, network-based resources, right? 

More evidence that all of this eye candy really is killing the once-solid TiVO experience. 

Dear TiVO:

Win XP = good
Win Vista = bad
Win 7 = good
Win 8 = bad

Get it???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

FWIW, here is my tverr log leading up to the crash...


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Possibly there is a memory or resource leak associated with a repeating error condition. If you disable network connection the memory or resource object might not get allocated, thus avoiding the leak.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Maybe strictly off-topic, but I was going to ask if anyone was generally experiencing instability with their high capacity DVRs with 2000+ shows, prior to this latest adventure. Both of our DVRs reboot pretty regularly, often when navigating the UI from the host or a connected Mini.


6TB 3000+ shows Roamio Pro and Roamio OTA, never reboots except for software updates.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

It seems unlikely to have 2 units exhibit the same network/reboot behavior and it being a slowly failing HD, but have you run disk diagnostics? You seem to be saying it was rebooting occasionally even before the latest episode. I had that happen on an old TiVo when I deleted some old shows that were occupying space that was associated with bad/unrecoverable sector, which then got put back into the "usable" pool and when it got used, the TiVo rebooted.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

So I'm wondering about the 3 errors where it could not find recordings in hash (SQLMyShowsBucketList) and the pool myworld out of "space" (presumably memory?).

Scott


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

DPF said:


> Just chiming back in. Still stable as far as I know on mine. Not sure if roll back has been applied yet.
> 
> Everything was good last night. I assume it still is. If it was rebooting I'd be hearing about it from the wife for certain.


Ditto for my one Roamio Pro that has been stable since cycling through Wi-Fi, MoCA and then back to Ethernet. Also, I forced a service connection around 7:30pm Monday night, and it updated (downdated?!?) to RC29
-- and it hasn't rebooted since the required reboot to install the update.

As for my other Pro, I opened it up to the Internet again, late this morning, and it appears to have rebooted at least once, though the last time was over an hour ago. And it's stayed-up long enough that it made a service connection and downloaded RC29 -- and was 'PENDING RESTART.' I've rebooted it and it's been up all of 600s. We'll see.

So both my boxes are now on RC29, connected via Ethernet and able to access the Internet. One box had been cycled through network options, but nothing had been done to the other, aside from blocking its access to the Internet. Go figure.


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

sfhub said:


> It seems unlikely to have 2 units exhibit the same network/reboot behavior and it being a slowly failing HD, but have you run disk diagnostics? You seem to be saying it was rebooting occasionally even before the latest episode. I had that happen on an old TiVo when I deleted some old shows that were occupying space that was associated with bad/unrecoverable sector, which then got put back into the "usable" pool and when it got used, the TiVo rebooted.


I replaced my fist 8 TB HDD with a new one a few month back, but overall stability didn't change. The first 8 TB HDD didn't have any errors and works perfectly in my PC, so now I have a spare .

Actually, after I eliminated all streaming shows from my One Passes a few weeks ago, I wasn't getting any reboots, so I think that may have been the main culprit for me. With an 8 TB HDD and 100+ One Passes, your NPL gets pretty hefty, and that combined with all the on-demand listings was probably causing issues as it tried to refresh the on-demand shows every time I launched the NPL (just a theory).


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> Ditto for my one Roamio Pro that has been stable since cycling through Wi-Fi, MoCA and then back to Ethernet. Also, I forced a service connection around 7:30pm Monday night, and it updated (downdated?!?) to RC29
> -- and it hasn't rebooted since the required reboot to install the update.
> 
> As for my other Pro, I opened it up to the Internet again, late this morning, and it appears to have rebooted at least once, though the last time was over an hour ago. And it's stayed-up long enough that it made a service connection and downloaded RC29 -- and was 'PENDING RESTART.' I've rebooted it and it's been up all of 600s. We'll see.
> ...


Oh no - now I'm all alone! Just curious, I know RC30 has been a train wreck for many, but are you, me and DPF the only ones that had this particular issue? I haven't come across anyone else reporting this same issue.


----------



## TishTash (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome everyone to my world: (the following from July)

TiVo restarts but only when connected to Internet


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

TishTash said:


> Welcome everyone to my world: (the following from July)
> 
> TiVo restarts but only when connected to Internet


Some good insights. Maybe it's time for me to throw in the old 3TB HDD and see what happens, but it sounds like even that may be problematic. I thought the Roamio Plus and Pro were identical except for the HDD, but maybe they get tuned a little differently in terms of SW parameters? What's strange is that your Plus with an 8TB HDD is rock solid. Go figure....


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

byonik said:


> Oh no - now I'm all alone! Just curious, I know RC30 has been a train wreck for many, but are you, me and DPF the only ones that had this particular issue? I haven't come across anyone else reporting this same issue.


Our three cases are all I've seen.



byonik said:


> With an 8 TB HDD and 100+ One Passes, your NPL gets pretty hefty, and that combined with all the on-demand listings was probably causing issues as it tried to refresh the on-demand shows every time I launched the NPL (just a theory).


Hmmm... 100+ OnePasses. I've updated my OP to capture that additional characteristic.

i.e.

Box: Roamio Pros (2x: 6TB and 8TB; 2845 & 3263 shows; 85% & 90% full; 357 & 238 OnePasses)
OS: 20.7.4.RC30
Network: Ethernet

Location: Illinois
Provider: Comcast (CATV/BB)​


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

byonik said:


> FWIW, here is my tverr log leading up to the crash...


That "pool myworld is out of space" message also seems to be on the leading edge of the crash/restart in my log.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Our three cases are all I've seen.


Until now.


TishTash said:


> Welcome everyone to my world: (the following from July)
> 
> TiVo restarts but only when connected to Internet





TishTash said:


> Three are near capacity: The Roamio Plus has 8TB, and is rock-solid stable, while the two Roamio Pros are 12TB & 16TB, and went through rebooting every three minutes. I have a nearly empty 20TB Roamio Pro that's fine (but then so were the other two until they filled up).



Though that's not entirely true, since I'd posted to that thread... and it's likely one reason disconnecting Ethernet from a box is one of my first troubleshooting steps when a box goes into cyclical reboots.

I see mention of Weaknees in this other thread. Is there a thread on the issue on their forum? I'd think they'd be a good advocate for facilitating a long-term solution, considering selling large capacity upgrades is their thing.

edit: FOUND: Options for rebooting Roamio​


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

byonik said:


> Oh no - now I'm all alone! Just curious, I know RC30 has been a train wreck for many, but are you, me and DPF the only ones that had this particular issue? I haven't come across anyone else reporting this same issue.


Total WAG, but have you tried eliminating all the files in the 'Recently Deleted Recordings' folder?


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> Total WAG, but have you tried eliminating all the files in the 'Recently Deleted Recordings' folder?


No, but I'll give that a try. Thx.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> Until now.
> ​
> Though that's not entirely true, since I'd posted to that thread... and it's likely one reason disconnecting Ethernet from a box is one of my first troubleshooting steps when a box goes into cyclical reboots.
> 
> ...


Well, it's seemingly the same exact problem, and it's been going on for a long time now.

I'm really intrigued by this whole Plus vs Pro thing in terms of stability. It might make sense if they had their OEM HDDs, but it appears that the Plus models are still more stable even when larger drives are installed. What gives?

Seems like there are some other differences. Maybe not in HW, but possibly in the SW parameters??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> Total WAG, but have you tried eliminating all the files in the 'Recently Deleted Recordings' folder?


I just checked out my Recently Deleted folder, and it claims to contain '1000 recordings'.









The box actually crashed while I was browsing them (with internet access disabled). So it's clearly not a healthy habit to have 1000 recently deleted shows!

What's the best way to batch delete them? KMTTG?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

byonik said:


> What's the best way to batch delete them? KMTTG?


I don't know of any way to batch delete all files in the 'Recently Deleted Recordings' folder. And I don't see this folder listed in KMTTG.

edit: CORRECTION: I'm thankfully educated by @kpeters59 a few posts later.​
---
Users have come up with some workarounds to keeping the Recently Deleted folder trimmed...


Phantom Gremlin said:


> Here's something that might work, as long as you can find a long block of time during which you have at least one free tuner. E.g. I just created a 9.5 hr long manual recording.
> 
> Set the recording to repeat every day (with low priority so it doesn't conflict with other show). Set the "keep at most" to 1. Then over a period of days you should wind up with a large number of 9.5 hour recordings you will need to manually delete. But each of those should displace the equivalent of 19 shorter 0.5 hour recordings you no longer need to manually delete.
> 
> But TiVo's algorithm for keeping deleted programs isn't fully understood, and it has changed recently. So the above might not work. Let us know.


... though the general view seems to be that the Recently Deleted folder shouldn't affect performance. Is the reboot triggered browsing within the Recently Deleted folder repeatable? (edit: This post suggests a performance improvement, anecdotal, by keeping the Recently Deleted folder trimmed.)


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

byonik said:


> I just checked out my Recently Deleted folder, and it claims to contain '1000 recordings'.


FWIW, my two Pros' Recently Deleted folders have around 450 recordings each.


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> I don't know of any way to batch delete all file in the 'Recently Deleted Recordings' folder. And I don't see this folder listed in KMTTG.
> 
> ---
> Users have come up with some workarounds to keeping the Recently Deleted folder trimmed...
> ​... though the general view seems to be that the Recently Deleted folder shouldn't affect performance. Is the reboot triggered browsing within the Recently Deleted folder repeatable? (edit: This post suggests a performance improvement, anecdotal, by keeping the Recently Deleted folder trimmed.)


That might be worth trying, but I could end up going from the frying pan to the fire! It would appear that 1000 deleted recordings is the maximum that the Roamio allows; so if I were to schedule a long manual daily recording, as suggested, it seems to me that I might end up making things worse since I could potentially end up consuming more of my HDD capacity with 1000 _longer_ recordings. Then again, manually deleting 1000 recordings isn't really feasible. Especially if I have to do it every few weeks.

I guess it all comes down to whether it's a) the HDD storage utilization, or b) the number of individual recordings, that causes Roamio sluggishness and stability issues. I disagree with Suzannesstud's assertion that a nearly full HDD will perform slower than an empty one. Yes, there may be some performance degradation due to a greater likelihood of file fragmentation, and also based on where the data resides on the platter (inner vs outer region). But unless the drive is very close to full (e.g. >98%), I think the perceivable performance difference on a 5400 RPM HDD is probably negligible. SSDs are a different matter of course!


----------



## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

There is a 'Deleted Items' tab in KMTTG that would allow Batch Delete of the contents, if the TiVo will stay online long enough to access it.

-KP


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> There is a 'Deleted Items' tab in KMTTG that would allow Batch Delete of the contents, if the TiVo will stay online long enough to access it.


Ah, indeed.

See: Remote > Deleted ... and then select the target DVR and click 'Refresh'

Thanks.


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

kpeters59 said:


> There is a 'Deleted Items' tab in KMTTG that would allow Batch Delete of the contents, if the TiVo will stay online long enough to access it.
> 
> -KP





krkaufman said:


> Ah, indeed.
> 
> See: Remote > Deleted ... and then select the target DVR and click 'Refresh'
> 
> Thanks.


Thanks for the tip! I checked in KMTTG yesterday and didn't spot that. Worked like a charm. I actually discovered that I had well over 2000 deleted recordings. I guess the Tivo GUI is only capable of showing 1000 (or maybe it just counts to 1000). Anyway, it took about 5 minutes to delete them all via KMTTG.


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

On a more positive note, I decided to try switching from Ethernet to WiFi again last night, and after unblocking my Roamio's IP from my router so it could access the Internet, I immediately initiated a service connection. It appeared to download a large update, because whatever it downloaded took around 20 minutes to install.

After installing, it did not ask me to reboot, and when I went into system info, it was still showing RC29, which I had already received on Monday evening (but that didn't stop the reboots). After a few hours on WiFi with no reboots, I decided to go back to Ethernet+MoCA, and it has been stable almost 24 hours with no reboots (fingers crossed). It almost makes me wonder if they modified RC29 to include a patch without creating a new release.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Great to hear re: absence of reboots. Fingers crossed.

p.s. 2000+ deleted shows?!?! Wow.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

byonik said:


> On a more positive note, I decided to try switching from Ethernet to WiFi again last night, and after unblocking my Roamio's IP from my router so it could access the Internet, I immediately initiated a service connection. It appeared to download a large update, because whatever it downloaded took around 20 minutes to install.
> After installing, it did not ask me to reboot, and when I went into system info, it was still showing RC29, which I had already received on Monday evening (but that didn't stop the reboots). After a few hours on WiFi with no reboots, I decided to go back to Ethernet+MoCA, and it has been stable almost 24 hours with no reboots (fingers crossed). It almost makes me wonder if they modified RC29 to include a patch without creating a new release.


I don't know if it's related, but my connection yesterday to a Premiere lasted over an hour. It did not receive a software change, just two days of program data. It is usually a 15 minute process.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> I don't know if it's related, but my connection yesterday to a Premiere lasted over an hour. It did not receive a software change, just two days of program data. It is usually a 15 minute process.


Yeah, something suspicious going on, there; I experienced the same excessively long "Loading info" delay...


krkaufman said:


> 8 1/2 hours w/o a reboot when on Wi-Fi, with Internet access and a couple successful service connections. Just switched to a MoCA *client* connection, and initiated a service connection. Currently in progress (and slow-going on "Loading info" -- jeebus, like software update slow... but unfortunately not; just slow loading).


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, something suspicious going on, there; I experienced the same excessively long "Loading info" delay...
> ​


I see the excessive long load times on occasion. I let it work in the background and watch TV. It resolves itself.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I have been running all my Tivos connected to a UPS with automatic voltage regulation for several years now after they kept rebooting and freezing up.


----------



## byonik (Apr 10, 2014)

shwru980r said:


> I have been running all my Tivos connected to a UPS with automatic voltage regulation for several years now after they kept rebooting and freezing up.


I did the same after a voltage spike took out my last Roamio, but it hasn't really helped with the occasional reboots.

That said, it's still a good idea - particularly if you have lifetime service on your Roamio and don't want a $500 brick!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TishTash (Jan 24, 2008)

ADDENDUM: Since the original fix via WeaKnees & TiVo, the TiVos started rebooting again when connected to the Internet, once after a power outage, which was resolved in a similar fashion to the above, then again after a Service Update (& subsequent rollback), this time not resolving. Long story short, TiVo figured out that the Skip Commercials option was what was causing the issue; once that was disabled, all's been well (for now, that is). This also explains why the Plus wasn't affected: It simply predated the Skip function, and had no programs with that option enabled.
Boy, what a royal pain in the ass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TishTash said:


> TiVo figured out that the Skip Commercials option was what was causing the issue


The IFTTT AutoSkip option? Or just SkipMode?


----------



## TishTash (Jan 24, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> The IFTTT AutoSkip option? Or just SkipMode?


I'm not familiar with IFTTT, but yes, SkipMode was the culprit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BP-isMe (Dec 16, 2003)

Hello...I'm having the same issue of my Plus rebooting every 15 minutes or so. I did upgrade the drive a year or two back with an 8 tb. I worked great until recently. I don't have many "Recently Deleted Shows" It reboots while loading after a service connection. I'm able to get it to be stable by blocking the TiVo server IP ranges. I also got it to connect (so I did not run out of guide data) by setting it to WiFi. That worked to refresh my guide data but then started crashing again later that day. I see above that SkipMode may be the cause...I don't see anywhere in the TiVo menu on how to disable SkipMode. Could someone point me in the right direction? I'll miss SkipMode but it does not work without connecting to the TiVo Server anyway.
Edit: I don't have IFTTT Enabled.

Thanks Much!
Brad


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

BP-isMe said:


> I see above that SkipMode may be the cause...I don't see anywhere in the TiVo menu on how to disable SkipMode. Could someone point me in the right direction? I'll miss SkipMode but it does not work without connecting to the TiVo Server anyway


TiVo would have to disable it on your TiVo. There's no end user way to do that.

Scott


----------



## BP-isMe (Dec 16, 2003)

I wonder if that is how others got their TiVos to stop crashing?

Thanks...Brad


----------



## funchefchick (Feb 15, 2014)

This just started happening on my wired Roamio Plus this week and I'm wondering if there's any news on a real resolution? Plugging in the ethernet cable from the modem to the Tivo not only causes a constant reboot loop, it brings down the WIFI entirely. ! 

We (relatively) quickly identified that wired ethernet connected to the Tivo was causing the constant-reboot loop, but not why. We've unplugged the ethernet cable for now but that makes my new Mini worthless (grumble). Do we really have to lose skipmode functionality (as described above) in order to prevent constant reboots??? GRUMBLE. I'm in the Seattle area, have my primary Tivo wired directly to a Comcast XB6 modem after a splitter (wall to splitter, one coax to Tivo, one to modem). From reading this (and other) threads it seems to be unrelated to splitter position. I'm tired, and my senior parents just want the TVs to work. Sigh. Any ideas, people? Appreciate any suggestions … Thanks!


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

funchefchick said:


> This just started happening on my wired Roamio Plus this week ...


Does your Plus still just have the stock 1TB hard drive installed (and to what capacity drive have you upgraded, if not)? This issue seemed to have only involved Roamio boxes upgraded to 6+TB, from my recollection.

Having upgraded the drives in my Pro units I never contacted TiVo about this issue. My only workaround (as an alternative to disconnecting Ethernet from the box) has been to tweak the router settings to temporarily block Internet access for the affected box, thus allowing Minis to function normally. (Of course, the DVR wouldn't be able to stream Netflix, etc., connect to the mothership for skip or guide data updates, but it's a trade-off.) I would then open access every day or so to see if the issue remained, and retreat back to isolation, if so. I've found the issue usually disappears after a couple days.



funchefchick said:


> Plugging in the ethernet cable from the modem to the Tivo not only causes a constant reboot loop, it brings down the WIFI entirely. ! ... my new Mini ... have my primary Tivo wired directly to a Comcast XB6 modem


Are you using MoCA at all? The symptom of having the whole network crash on connecting Ethernet to a Roamio Plus (a MoCA-capable TiVo DVR) sounds like what happens when a second, conflicting MoCA/Ethernet bridge is connected/activated. (Is MoCA enabled in your Roamio Plus?)


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> My only workaround (as an alternative to disconnecting Ethernet from the box) has been to tweak the router settings to temporarily block Internet access for the affected box, thus allowing Minis to function normally. (Of course, the DVR wouldn't be able to stream Netflix, etc., connect to the mothership for skip or guide data updates, but it's a trade-off.) I would then open access every day or so to see if the issue remained, and retreat back to isolation, if so. I've found the issue usually disappears after a couple days.


Not sure if it is worth the effort since you have a workaround that seems to get you going, but if you have spare TiVo capacity somewhere else, you might want to consider offloading the shows, then reinstalling the same drive after zeroing out the first few bytes, then moving the shows back.

When I get weird behavior that only I see but others with the same configuration aren't seeing, that has worked for me in the past, on the theory that whatever initially triggered the recurring problem is a rare event and unlikely to happen again, so reinstalling the drive might be a longer term workaround.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sfhub said:


> Not sure if it is worth the effort since you have a workaround that seems to get you going, but if you have spare TiVo capacity somewhere else, you might want to consider offloading the shows, then reinstalling the same drive after zeroing out the first few bytes, then moving the shows back.
> 
> When I get weird behavior that only I see but others with the same configuration aren't seeing, that has worked for me in the past, on the theory that whatever initially triggered the recurring problem is a rare event and unlikely to happen again, so reinstalling the drive might be a longer term workaround.


Thanks; definitely something I've had in mind. If the problem were more persistent and not directly linked to Internet connectivity I'd be more apt to consider the hard drive, itself, as the root of the issue.


----------



## funchefchick (Feb 15, 2014)

I haven't upgraded the drive in either of my Tivo Roamios. Each are still the original OEM drive. My primary Tivo is connected to the modem/router via coax in the living room (and formerly was also connected to the router via ethernet cable up until a few days ago). The 2nd Roamio is in the master bedroom. I've had these 2 for some years. I recently added a new Mini (we moved to a new house and added another tv area). In the new house both Roamios can see/stream to each other just fine. It's a Comcast XB6 modem we are using which I understand can be a bit twitchy. I don't see how a 2nd/conflicting MoCA bridge could exist here? 

I *just* got MoCA running on my primary Roamio to support the new Mini I bought to add to my Tivo family. It initially worked perfectly and I was happy. That was an idyllic 72 hours. MoCA + Ethernet showed up in the UI on the primary Tivo ... briefly, before the crash and the repeated reboots.

I don't love the idea of blocking internet access at the router to temporarily hamstring the apps in order to get the Mini semi-working. I need the apps to work too. . .. surely someone, somewhere is investigating this problem?

I'm reluctant to call Tivo support because lately they've been about as helpful as Comcast support - Booo. I'm an early Tivo adopter, and have been using Tivos relatively effortlessly for ages. SURELY there is some fix for this? Am I the only one who is seeing this issue on OEM hard drives? Sigh. 

Any thoughts or advice?


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

funchefchick said:


> In the new house both Roamios can see/stream to each other just fine.


How? How is each of your Roamio DVRs currently networked such that they can stream b/w each other? Or was this prior to the changes made to support the Mini, and now the DVRs can no longer see each other or stream betwixt each other?

Prior to the changes to support the Mini, how were each of the DVRs networked?

Do you have access to the XB6 cable gateway's configuration or status interface (UI)? If so, have or can you check whether the gateway's built-in MoCA Bridge is enabled?

p.s. My interim suggestion/test would be to make sure that MoCA is DISABLED/OFF in the primary Roamio, and then, once confirmed, reconnect the Ethernet cable to this DVR.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Do you have access to the XB6 cable gateway's configuration or status interface (UI)? If so, have or can you check whether the gateway's built-in MoCA Bridge is enabled?


While in the XB6 config/status UI, it would be worthwhile to identify and document the channels/frequencies used for downstream and upstream communication.


----------



## funchefchick (Feb 15, 2014)

I misspoke. Without the ethernet/MoCA working my Tivos can SEE each other, but streaming isn't functional at all. Prior to the move (and before the new Mini) I had the MoCA bridge installed but I don't think it was ever working correctly, actually. I could stream from one Tivo to the other - mostly - but not the other way around. It seemed to only work in one direction and I didn't debug it due to inertia (and because I could stream from apps from either box, so I could mostly get whatever content I wanted). 

Now that we've moved and I've got things all configured I realized how MoCA is *supposed* to work - and it did, briefly - before the infinite reboot/crash the entire wifi problem.

When I try to login to 192.168.0.1 it fails to resolve - I haven't tried to login to the router since the LATEST replacement/signal refresh. I can (shudder) call Comcast and see if they somehow enabled MOCA on their end which is causing the conflict. 

When I get back from running some errands (and once the WNBA Playoff game is over!) I'll try disabling MOCA through the primary Tivo and reconnecting the ethernet cable . .. and keep my fingers crossed! I worry about the health of my Tivo's hard drive with these repeated reboots . .. ! BTW - is enabling MOCA something Comcast routinely does? I didn't realize they had the ability to flip that particular switch nor have I asked them about it. 

Thanks very much for the suggestions!


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> While in the XB6 config/status UI, it would be worthwhile to identify and document the channels/frequencies used for downstream and upstream communication.


Just to be clear, another concern is that the XB6 is a DOCSIS 3.1 cable gateway (link), and the MoCA signals could be interfering with the gateway's operation, or the DOCSIS 3.1 signals, if above 1 GHz (i.e. in the MoCA range, 1125-1675 MHz), could be interfering with MoCA operation.

Can you describe or detail how all your devices are connected via coax, through what components (splitters, amps, filters), all the way back to the incoming cable line?

p.s. I haven't been able to find any documentation on the XB6, so I don't know its capabilities, such as whether it would even have any MoCA bridging functionality - though I'm guessing not, given the conflicts between MoCA and DOCSIS 3.1. ('gist: I'm leaning more towards a MoCA/D3.1 conflict, now, rather than dual MoCA bridges.)

edit: p.p.s. The following thread from a Comcast support forum ...

MoCA with xb6 and Actiontech ECB6200 - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 3116484​
...indicates the XB6 does support MoCA bridging (so dual bridges would again be in play), but issues with the Technicolor version's MoCA implementation. So it would also be useful to know just which model# XB6 you have.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Have you checked your gateway’s download/upload speed using speedtest.net or some other site, and compared to what you’re paying for? 

After doing so, I’d be interested in the results of the same test were you to install a MoCA filter directly on the gateway’s coax input.


----------



## funchefchick (Feb 15, 2014)

Drat. I had a lengthy debugging comment written and then my laptop crashed. Setup at my house:


Main coax line in to (new to us) home enters into the living room by the main Tivo/tv setup
That main coax plugs into splitter
Main coax cable 'A' plugs into Comcast XB6 router/modem
Main coax cable 'B' plugs into Tivo Roamio Plus (let's call this Tivo1 - activated 2014, no previous problems)
Platform - Series5
Software version - 21.8.2.RC1-848-6-848
This Tivo *was* wired via Ethernet directly to the XB6 router, and intended to be the MoCA host for my 2nd Tivo and the new Mini Vox
Single, multi-stream cablecard successfully paired (we think)


Second Tivo is a Tivo Roamio in the bedroom, direct coax from wall (now named Tivo2)
Connected to WIFI wirelessly
Single, multi-stream cablecard

Third device is a Tivo Mini VOX just purchased a month ago over near the kitchen. 
Connected to coax from wall
Was briefly successfully connected via MoCA to the living room Roamio Plus. Currently has zero connectivity. Gathering dust.


After all of the reboots kept happening on Tivo1 - and the wifi stayed tanked for all devices in the house - I unplugged the eithernet cable from the primary Tivo (let's call it Tivo1). Cannot stream content anywhere, and the Mini Vox is useless - but the WIFI network is back up and Tivo1 is NOT constantly rebooting. Hooray?

Upon suggestions here I disabled MOCA through the Tivo1 UI and tried plugging the ethernet cable back in. Voila: WIFI throughout the house still works, Tivo1 is connected via ethernet cable but is NOT rebooting. I still cannot stream content or use the Mini at all, but .. Progress. It certainly points to a MOCA conflict.

I was finally able to login to the router and sure enough, MoCA network was enabled through the Comcast UI. So I disabled it. Or so I thought. On the Gateway; Connection; MoCA tab it was set to 'Enabled'. I selected "Disable" and then "SAVE". The UI popped up a "Operation in Progress" window which said "Waiting for backend to be fully executed, please be patient .. . " and a status bar. Eventually the window disappeared.

NOTE: Ethernet cable was still connecting Tivo1 to the router at this point. The WIFI was still up and running in the house. W00t. I tried re-enabling Tivo1 as a MoCA host. <BOOM> WiFi crashes on all devices. Again. No constant reboots, though.

At this point I gave up for a while, and spent time with my dog who just had surgery. I turned MOCA back off on Tivo1 and gave up on using the Mini Vox or on streaming content between Tivo1 and Tivo2 for now.

SIDEBAR: I have a second, presumably unrelated problem with Comcast and my cablecards at this point. I recently moved from my home 3 miles away to a new rental house. Pretty much everything worked (although I'm not certain I had MoCA set up correctly in retrospect, but whatever). Upon moving I called Comcast and had both of my cablecards re-paired at the new address, and repeated guided setup (because new zip code). All my pay channels work and everything seems fine - EXCEPT I cannot use Xfinity on Demand whatsoever. Fails consistently whenever I try to load the app with the same error '- %lm2- the locale code error is tivocrd-cmc-a2p.comcast.com', regardless of content. In the past when this happened once before it was because of some kind of 'rate code mismatch' on Comcast's end, and after some chasing and phone calls I finally got the right person to 'realign' some codes or something. Unfortunately I have been out of luck so far at the new house, now a month in. I've been on the phone dozens of times, probably a hundred hours now. About 10 days ago I got a lovely person in the cablecard department named 'Yolanda', and she magically got my cablecards realigned and BOTH TIVOS WERE WORKING WITH XFINITY ON DEMAND. Woo-hoo! Then a week later both started 100% failing Xfinity On Demand all over again. No one I've spoken to can fix it. They finally opened some sort of executive support case for me, but literally nothing has happened. At some point I'm going to get noisy and publicly cranky about their terrible support becausee they FUBAR'd this move in new and exciting ways that I wouldn't think possible . . . but still sorting out MOCA is my bigger priority this week. The XOD stuff is probably unrelated to the MOCA issues. I think.

Just now I logged back in to the router to confirm that MoCA was still disabled . . AND IT REVERTED TO BEING ENABLED AT THE ROUTER. I watched this time - I clicked 'Disabled" and "Save" in the Comcast UI and waited forever .. . And it NEVER DISABLED MOCA. Do I not have the ability to disable MOCA at the modem/router even though the UI implies that I can? No matter what I do the at-a-glance gateway status shows MoCA with a green checkmark next to it.

So . . . then I thought, screw it just try using the Comcast MoCA as the bridge since it's so damn insistent .. . I plugged in the ethernet cable from Tivo1 to the router again and tried to configure Tivo1 as a client, not a host .. . But NOPE. You can't. Tivo UI says to unplug the ethernet cable entirely. Which means . . . My Mini Vox won't be able to hang off of it at all since it requires a wired network connection. At least that's what I interpreted it as.

WTF? I guess I'll try calling Comcast tomorrow about *really* disabling MoCA from their end since it won't let me from here? Surely someone, somewhere has had this problem with an XB6 modem/router before?

At this point I'm seriously wondering about returning the Mini Vox to Tivo and buying some kind of refurb Roamio or whatever to use at the new/3rd location because at least then I can run it on the wi-fi without needing a wired connection. . Right? Use Comcast's $!#!$!!! MoCA as the host and all 3 Tivos as clients? Would that even work?

ARGH. You guys. This stuff is supposed to JUST WORK. I've got hundreds of hours in at this point and I'm tired and frustrated. Grrrr.

Thanks for any suggestions or hints . .. going to snorgle my big dog and watch Infinity Wars via Amazon BECAUSE AT LEAST THAT WORKS. Sigh.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

funchefchick said:


> So . . . then I thought, screw it just try using the Comcast MoCA as the bridge since it's so damn insistent .. . I plugged in the ethernet cable from Tivo1 to the router again and tried to configure Tivo1 as a client, not a host .. . But NOPE. You can't. Tivo UI says to unplug the ethernet cable entirely. Which means . . . My Mini Vox won't be able to hang off of it at all since it requires a wired network connection. At least that's what I interpreted it as.


Sorry I've only skimmed this but was going to suggest doing exactly this since you can't seem to turn it off. The Mini VOX can use Moca as well for networking and doesn't need an Ethernet network connection.

Scott


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

funchefchick said:


> So . . . then I thought, screw it just *try using the Comcast MoCA as the bridge* since it's so damn insistent .. . I *plugged in the ethernet cable from Tivo1 to the router* again and tried to configure Tivo1 as a client, not a host .. . But NOPE. You can't. Tivo UI says to unplug the ethernet cable entirely. Which means . . . My Mini Vox won't be able to hang off of it at all since it requires a wired network connection. At least that's what I interpreted it as.


You might have.been pretty close, there. When configuring a MoCA-capable TiVo DVR as a MoCA client, the DVR must not be connected via Ethernet to the LAN; otherwise, the dual bridging condition would occur - which is why the TiVo setup insists that the Ethernet cable be disconnected before it will comply with the request to configure the DVR as a MoCA client.

You could *try again*, keeping the XB6 as your MoCA bridge, but leaving Ethernet disconnected from TiVo1. Given the devices are connected to outputs of the same 2-way splitter, TiVo1 should be able to connect as a MoCA client to the XB6's bridge.

p.s. FYI... The Mini VOX, once it's successfully connected as a MoCA client, won't care whether TiVo1 is networked via MoCA or Ethernet.


----------



## funchefchick (Feb 15, 2014)

Holy - really? I thought I'd read that the Mini Vox required the Tivo host to be a wired/ethernet connection in order to connect .. . but I suppose that is probably true Tivo is the MoCA host, but we're now talking about Comcast being the MoCA host . . . holy cow. I'll try configuring all of the Tivos as MoCA clients wirelessly later today and see if that works! Could it be … ?? thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

funchefchick said:


> Holy - really? I thought I'd read that the Mini Vox required the Tivo host to be a wired/ethernet connection in order to connect .. . but I suppose that is probably true Tivo is the MoCA host, but we're now talking about Comcast being the MoCA host . . . holy cow. I'll try configuring all of the Tivos as MoCA clients wirelessly later today and see if that works! Could it be &#8230; ?? thanks for the suggestion!


To be clear, TiVo officially requires either a wired Ethernet or wired MoCA connection for each device that is part of a whole home setup, allowing for a mix of connection types, Ethernet or MoCA, as needed for each device. So, both Ethernet and MoCA are considered wired network connections by TiVo for the purpose of a TiVo whole home setup; Wi-Fi and Powerline are not.

More on TiVo Mini whole home setup requirements here: https://support.tivo.com/articles/I...iguration/New-TiVo-Experience-TiVo-Mini-Setup


> TiVo Mini/ Mini VOX, the host device, and all other Unified Entertainment System/DVR's you want to use with TiVo Mini/Mini VOX must connect to the home router using a high-bandwidth Ethernet or MoCA connection. You can use either type of connection on either device.



All that said, yes, you should be able to allow your XB6 to function as the MoCA bridge, and then network each TiVo device only as a (wired) MoCA client. However, I'm unclear on whether TiVo2 can be connected as a MoCA client without assistance, as I'm not certain whether it is a 6-tuner Roamio Plus or Pro, or a 4-tuner basic Roamio; if it's a 4-tuner Roamio, then a separate MoCA adapter would be needed at the TiVo2 location to act as TiVo2's MoCA network adapter.


----------



## funchefchick (Feb 15, 2014)

So . . . randomly, I find myself back where Tivo2 is and I whimsically tried to set it up as a MoCA client. The TIVO UI doesn't give me that option here. Under "Change Network Settings" I get only: Ethernet On/Off; Wi-Fi On/Off, and IP Address. Does Tivo1 have to be configured as a MoCA client first for some reason? If they are all connecting wirelessly should it matter? Sorry for the random question, post-surgery-dog is now settled back here so I can't easily run back to Tivo1 and try it there for a bit. :-/


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

funchefchick said:


> So . . . randomly, I find myself back where Tivo2 is and I whimsically tried to set it up as a MoCA client. The TIVO UI doesn't give me that option here.  Under "Change Network Settings" I get only: Ethernet On/Off; Wi-Fi On/Off, and IP Address. ... If they are all connecting wirelessly should it matter?


See my just prior post _(having posted it just a few seconds before your reply),_ but especially the latter half of the closing paragraph ...


krkaufman said:


> However, I'm unclear on whether TiVo2 can be connected as a MoCA client without assistance, as I'm not certain whether it is a 6-tuner Roamio Plus or Pro, or a 4-tuner basic Roamio; if it's a 4-tuner Roamio, then a separate MoCA adapter would be needed at the TiVo2 location to act as TiVo2's MoCA network adapter.


Your description of TiVo2's Network Settings options confirms, for me, that it is, indeed, a 4-tuner Roamio and so will need the assistance of a separate MoCA adapter to establish the required wired (via MoCA) network connection. TiVo2 (a 4-tuner Roamio) and its MoCA adapter would each be connected to coax via the outputs of a (ideally) MoCA-compatible 2-way splitter, and TiVo2 would be connected to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port -- and configured as an Ethernet client, since that's how TiVo2 will believe it's connected, via its Ethernet port.

Note that the TiVo2 MoCA client attempt may or may not be successful, but for a different reason than earlier attempts with TiVo1. TiVo2 is in a remote location, and so how the home's coax runs interconnect will play a much more critical role in TiVo2's MoCA connection. Fingers crossed that the MoCA adapter at TiVo2 can get that DVR networked, but don't get discouraged if not immediately successful. Once you have freedom of movement, you'd want to restart MoCA debugging at the XB6 location with TiVo1 and build out from there.

p.s. Your priorities are correctly aligned. Hope the snorgle-ready pup is on the mend.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

funchefchick said:


> I'll try configuring all of the Tivos as *MoCA clients wirelessly*


Just wanted to followup and reemphasize that a MoCA connection is considered a wired network connection, equally acceptable to Ethernet by our TiVo overlords.

Both TiVo1 and the Mini can be configured as MoCA clients (with nothing connected to either box's Ethernet port), but TiVo2 (a 4-tuner Roamio) will require a co-located MoCA adapter to establish its network connection via MoCA, connecting TiVo2 via Ethernet to the MoCA adapter.

Note that if you have multiple Ethernet-capable devices at the TiVo2 location, you could connect the MoCA adapter to a network switch (e.g.), and then connect TiVo2 and the other devices to the network switch, enabling a wired network connection for multiple devices via TiVo2's MoCA adapter.


----------



## funchefchick (Feb 15, 2014)

Aha, that makes sense. Yes, Tivo2 is a 4-tuner basic Roamio. I believe I have an unused MOCA bridge sitting up by Tivo1 (which I was using incorrectly at the old house, so .. hey, handy that it is around now). Once snorgle-dog is awake I'll give it all a go with the understanding that Tivo2 maaay be too far from a solid coax signal. 

Thanks very much! I was seriously losing hope there for a bit!


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

funchefchick said:


> Aha, that makes sense. Yes, Tivo2 is a 4-tuner basic Roamio. I believe I have an unused MOCA bridge sitting up by Tivo1 (which I was using incorrectly at the old house, so .. hey, handy that it is around now). Once snorgle-dog is awake I'll give it all a go with the understanding that Tivo2 maaay be too far from a solid coax signal.
> 
> Thanks very much! I was seriously losing hope there for a bit!


You'll be looking at a setup very similar to the following diagram, though how the rooms are interconnected and whether a "PoE" MoCA filter is properly installed (as noted in the diagram) remains a mystery, and may affect MoCA connectivity between remote locations and the XB6's MoCA bridge.















NOTE that the switch pictured at the Roamio location is optional; if only the Roamio requires a network connection, the Roamio can be directly connected to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port.

Also, depending on the exact MoCA adapter used, the 2-way splitter at the MoCA adapter location may not be required ... if the MoCA adapter includes an RF pass-through port (e.g.) to which the Roamio DVR could be connected. The TiVo Bridge lacks the RF pass-through port and so would require use of a splitter.​


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

To be absolutely accurate, there is no such thing as a "MOCA client". All MOCA nodes are peers and communicate directly with each other - there is no pre-established coordinating node.

If you plug in an ethernet cable the TiVo WILL activate ethernet, regardless of the wireless or MOCA settings. So to work on MOCA only, you MUST disconnect the ethernet cable. If you enable wireless on the DVR, it will use wireless for internet access ONLY - you need to have MOCA or ethernet (but not both!) to share content. If you enable MOCA and Ethernet on a DVR, you must NOT have another MOCA bridge between the two networks.

You can mix ethernet and MOCA on a network. I have a MOCA bridge connected to my router to give the coax access to the internet. Then we have 2 Roamio Pros and 3 Minis attached to MOCA only and two Minis where we had no coax, so they are on ethernet only. It all works flawlessly.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Diana Collins said:


> To be absolutely accurate, there is no such thing as a "MOCA client".


If this weren't a TiVo forum where the terms "MoCA client" and "MoCA bridge" have distinct meanings, both for the connection and configuration of a TiVo box, sure.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Have a similar problem. Not sure it's the exact one, but Roamio Plus seems to reboots multiple times per week now. Only thing that changed is I upgraded my cable package. That's when I started noticing reboots. But could be a coincidence as I didn't use the TIVo much with previous cable package. 

Roamio has stock hard drive and is connected via Moca to 2 Minis. And is plugged into ethernet for internet access.

If anyone has any insight into this issue please share.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

trip1eX said:


> Roamio Plus seems to reboots multiple times per week now.


Yeah, our's do that, as well; but it's a different issue than this thread's symptom of a Roamio Plus/Pro going into an *endless* reboot cycle ... so long as it remains connected to the Internet.


----------



## jackster159 (Mar 8, 2015)

My roamio just started doing this, upgraded from a 1tb to a 8tb hard drive, all was well, till I filled it beyond 90%. Did you ever find a solution or just keep the tivo from accessing the internet? If I block it from internet access or remove the network cable, it seems fine, but once enabled, endless reboots. Cant access the tivo from kmttg, which is a bummer, as I'd like to offload a bunch of shows...


----------



## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Apparently you can get away with activating Parental Controls or the like to disable internet access for just the TiVo and it will still have local network access so KMTTG will work.

-KP


----------



## jackster159 (Mar 8, 2015)

I did that, and the tivo shows up and works with the mini, but kmttg can not communicate with it. I was hoping the internet/reset issue had been solved...

I read through this thread, but I'm still uncertain if I swap out the hard drive, let it connect to the internet, can I go back to the 8tb drive that is in there now without losing shows? It's my understanding you can not swap hard drives between 2 different tivo roamios, but you can substitute a hard drive in the same unit and switch it back? Thanks!


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jackster159 said:


> I did that, and the tivo shows up and works with the mini, but kmttg can not communicate with it. I was hoping the internet/reset issue had been solved...


I wouldn't call it solved, but I was able to allow my box back on the Internet after a week or two. (i.e. the problem seemed to go away)



jackster159 said:


> It's my understanding you can not swap hard drives between 2 different tivo roamios, but you can substitute a hard drive in the same unit and switch it back?


I can't offer an authoritative answer on this one. (It's my understanding that this isn't possible on a BOLT, and maybe not on an EDGE, but *should* be possible on a Roamio running TE3; dunno Re: TE4, or how the software version on the drives would affect the swapping.)


----------



## jackster159 (Mar 8, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> I wouldn't call it solved, but I was able to allow my box back on the Internet after a week or two. (i.e. the problem seemed to go away)


Very much appreciate hearing from you and that this may resolve itself. I will give it a little time before I try to swap out the drive. When I swapped it in, I actually prepared two 8 tb drives at the time, since I was going through the process of upgrading and the 2nd drive was planned to go into a different roamio, which has not happened yet, so both drives, were prepared with the same roamio (after expanding them, I let the roamio set them up and checked to see that they registered the #of hours of recording time.) I actually did 3 drives, as I have 3 roamios, two 1 tb and one 3tb. I've only installed the one drive, on one of the 1tb units.

A couple of quick questions - when you blocked your unit from internet access, were you still able to communicate with it via kmttg? Are you mindful of the % used on the roamio (ie, do you keep it under 90 or 80 or 70%?

Thanks very much for responding!!! I see hope at the end of the tunnel!


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I can't specifically recall if I tested the firewall-blocked Roamio w/ KMTTG.

Our boxes are typically at 90+% full.


----------



## jackster159 (Mar 8, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Our boxes are typically at 90+% full.


I like your style 

Thanks, and I'll update if when I either change out the hard drive, or if it resolves by itself. I believe its something on Tivos end where they're forcing the reboots. Whether its handshaking protocol gone wrong or its a download/upload not occurring, corrupt file somewhere, I dont know...


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jackster159 said:


> Thanks, and I'll update if when I either change out the hard drive, or if it resolves by itself. I believe its something on Tivos end where they're forcing the reboots. Whether its handshaking protocol gone wrong or its a download/upload not occurring, corrupt file somewhere, I dont know...


Concur. Somewhere up-thread someone had attributed the reboots, in their case, to generic artwork being missing, another person was bad skip data (IIRC), so the root cause may be tough to chase down.


----------



## jeffsinsfo (Oct 16, 2005)

jackster159 said:


> I did that, and the tivo shows up and works with the mini, but kmttg can not communicate with it. I was hoping the internet/reset issue had been solved...
> 
> I read through this thread, but I'm still uncertain if I swap out the hard drive, let it connect to the internet, can I go back to the 8tb drive that is in there now without losing shows? It's my understanding you can not swap hard drives between 2 different tivo roamios, but you can substitute a hard drive in the same unit and switch it back? Thanks!


Yes, at least if your Roamio is on TE3. I swapped back in my original drive for a few days while I cloned one upgraded drive to another and the recordings on the original drive were there when I was using that and then the recordings on the upgraded drive were on that when I placed the clone of it back in the Roamio.


----------



## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

There's also a rumor that you could, in fact, remove a TE4 Drive from your Roamio, do a side-grade to TE3, effectively losing _those _files, and then returning the original drive _without _losing _those_ shows.

Has anyone verified this?

-KP


----------



## jackster159 (Mar 8, 2015)

Ok, some updates. I did a guided setup, it froze when it tried to connect. Once I did that, I had no access to any shows or anything on the roamio. At this point I put in the original 1 tb drive I had saved (had one recording on it), recording was still there, said it had not connected to tivo/intenet in 30 days or more and it let me do guided setup, connected, updated and everything was ok. Left it with that drive for a while, was able to access it via kmttg and the other roamios and minis without issue. Went back to the 8tb drive, and that let me connect, let me do the guided setup, and seems ok at this point. Its only been a day or so, and it did reboot once in the beginning, I think it was getting more information from tivo. Seems when its a new, fresh connect, it downloads a day or so of the programming guide, and then updates it to the 2 weeks or so later on. 

It does seem I can trigger reboots if its transferring from one tivo to the other and trying to access it via a mini. This has happened to me before, and seems to be a network issue - possibly overtaxing the tivo network. 

I believe the whole issue with the endless rebooting deals with the roamio trying to update channel guide/settings which until it successfully does, results in reboots. Not sure if it was coincidence or not, but putting in the original drive, guided setup, then the expanded drive seems to solve this, in my experience.


----------



## jackster159 (Mar 8, 2015)

jeffsinsfo said:


> Yes, at least if your Roamio is on TE3. I swapped back in my original drive for a few days while I cloned one upgraded drive to another and the recordings on the original drive were there when I was using that and then the recordings on the upgraded drive were on that when I placed the clone of it back in the Roamio.


If both drives are TE4, would this work as well?


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

jackster159 said:


> If both drives are TE4, would this work as well?


No which is why he said if you are on TE3.

Scott


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> No which is why he said if you are on TE3.


I wasn't sure whether he was simply scoping his reply to where it was known to work, TE3, rather than categorically saying that it doesn't work for TE4. (At least for Roamios; drive swapping like this isn't possible at all for BOLTs ... and I'm assuming EDGE units.)


----------



## HoosontheTeevo (Feb 9, 2015)

Update. I've got my roamio 12tb on 20.7.4d.rc15 /TE3 'classic tivo roamio interface' back to working well again since last night. Not sure what changed tried some things (listed below) perhaps most important were getting it to connect to tivo several times, one time was a lengthy download, so who knows? All functions good. Just downloaded multiple shows via kmttg while recording/watching/navigating the tivo box/recordings with no issues. Fingers crossed so far so good.

The things I did which may have helped...


did several complete shutdowns/pulled power to the box - I like to do it when i select restart box - and the moment the light goes out - pull the power cable
after discovering that i could watch/record/use guide, etc. fine without ethernet cable plugged in - I used it that way - then would go to network settings and force a connection to tivo and plug the ethernet back in at that moment. several times it did get all the way to loading info 100%, once after slowly building to 100% for about 30 min - though it did crash more after this. forced a few more that completed and were shorter. perhaps something was able to download that remedied the situation.
deleted all the shows recorded the day the problem began
deleted some other shows i didn't need though am still at 90% on my 12tb box
permanently deleted all the 'recently deleted' shows
not sure what changed/helped. maybe tivo servers pushed something out or changed whatever was causing the problem? Maybe the full power off restarts helped clear out problematic files/artifacts?

another thing I just remembered was a few days before the boot loop began we couldn't access what to watch now even though other apps/icons were active in the tivo central screen. So maybe another clue that this was something on the tivo network/software side vs. any problem with my equipment.

---------------- tivo roamio plus with 12tb hard drive working flawessly for 18 months began to continually restart/reboot whenever left connected to the network/ethernet ------------------
Hello - reviving this old thread. My tivo roamio plus (on TE3, very stable and reliable dvr since 2015 - that has always performed flawlessly began to repeatedly reboot starting yesterday. It has a 12TB drive in it - upgraded from 8TB drive in early 2020.

when looking at the system info and pressing clear x 2 and enter x 2 then zero - the tverr logs include...
--------------
(/bin/curl)) failed: code 6

tvtranscoderpowermgractivity[1852]: 1981936 Host Network Up
error code 5 - statement aborts at 4:[attach database :/db/PgDb_1.sqlite" AS PgDb] database is locked

pool myworld is out of space, requesting 32 bytes

unexpected error ... while processing file 1144913 nToDo = 251, (multiple versions with different ntodo numbers )

couldn't delete fsid 1078415

could not find recording 183866 in hash (multiple versions of this with similar 6 digit sequential in some cases 187010 187011 etc)------
---------

argh. none of that makes any sense to me. a few similarities to some folks in this thread who experienced this earlier.

As long as ethernet cable is pulled it boots and is stable with guide, recordings, live tv, etc.

in afternoon of many many reboots /experimentation - was able to boot it a couple times - then pull ethernet at last minute - and when it went to tivo central - i went immediately to settings networking and forced a connection to tivo - and plugged ethernet back in at that moment - and once it went all the way through including downloading guide data - took very long maybe 30 min. - and during this time the icons for streaming/now showing reappeared at top of tivo central, what to watch now was up, - and was even able to begin a kmttg download and refresh of recordings list, etc. .....but then it crashed/reboot loop continued again

that loaded guide data out to Nov. 15 - but then after a little while and as I was going into deleted shows to clear them connected to kmttg at same time - it crashed/rebooted again - and has remained unstable and will reboot if connected to ethernet again.

Thanks to anyone for any ideas. Sorry for likely a confusing post.

Would any kickstart codes help? at this point i have many many recordings i'd prefer not to lose - and since i can still record/watch I don't want to give up on them yet to do a factory reset/destructive fix.

Is there anything to calling tivo and getting them to turn off skip mode (is that a thing for roamio on TE3?)
how can i find those recordings that are referenced by 6 digit numbers?
anything to one pass/with streaming needing to be turned off, etc.?
12tb roamio is at about 90%.

One thing that would help a lot is give me procedure for having my home router network up - so I can use kmttg - while it is not connected to internet so it doesn't reboot. i have verizon fios - so my router connects out to the ONT box with a cable rg6 not an ethernet - tried blocking router ip address from internet - but then kmttg wouldn't connect to it.


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HoosontheTeevo said:


> them connected to kmttg at same time - it crashed/rebooted again -


Just to confirm, you're running the latest version of KMTTG and it's tools? (An older version used to cause my DVR to crash, related to the number of recordings.)


----------



## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Related post/thread: TIVO Units Rebooting, anyone else have same issue ?


----------



## MLM1 (Apr 26, 2008)

I know this is a Roamio thread but I encountered the same issue on my Bolt (stock) with TE4 and saw this thread was just revived, so posting here.

Our setup has been stable for three years. Tonight my wife was watching on the bedroom Mini. She deleted a show from the My Shows list using the clear button on the remote and then lost the connection to the Bolt. I discovered that the Bolt was repeatedly rebooting about 30 seconds after it finished starting up. Disconnecting it from the Internet stopped the reboots. Reconnecting to the Internet caused it to reboot within 30 seconds and back into the same reboot cycle again.

Long story short (I will spare the details of my failed attempts), I appear to have solved the problem as follows:

1. Unplugged the ethernet cable while it was booting (if I didn't do this then the Bolt would not respond to the remote at all).
2. After the Bolt was up and running, reconnected the ethernet cable and immediately ran a service connection.
3. Immediately after it was done with the disconnecting step (just as it began loading the updates), removed the ethernet cable again.
4. Waited for it to finish loading the updates.
5. Reconnected the ethernet cable and all is well again.

The only other thing I did that may or may not be relevant is that I permanently deleted the show that my wife had deleted just before it crashed.

I guess it got into some bad loop and this was the only way to break out of it. Hope this helps someone else. If this sequence doesn't work the first time try it a few more times.


----------



## HoosontheTeevo (Feb 9, 2015)

thanks krkaufman, yes 2.4p latest kmttg. see my update to my post my roamio is back up and working well w/good kmttg funcitonality. 

side note- is it possible to upload shows back to my tivo box again - or is this still not possible - downloads only?

Thanks MLM1 - yes i think i stumbled onto a similar solution. i similarly deleted anything recorded the day this began and cleared recently deleted shows, etc. Then I eventually began to plug in the ethernet when I'd try a service connection only - and though it crashed several times - it eventually connected and completed the download for something lengthy and that must have done it. though when it did succeed i didn't immediately take the ethernet cable out and probably should have- but a few more crashes and plugged in briefly for service connections later and the issue has resolved. excellent snappy performance today. updated my post. thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## HoosontheTeevo (Feb 9, 2015)

One other note that I forgot to mention leading up to my roamio plus 12tb on TE3 going into repeated boots/restarts- is a few days before we noticed that there was no "what to watch now" available. Can't remember if it was greyed out or what - regular icons and apps were present on tivo central - but what to watch now couldn't be accessed - noticed first from a connected tivo mini.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

HoosontheTeevo said:


> One other note that I forgot to mention leading up to my roamio plus 12tb on TE3 going into repeated boots/restarts- is a few days before we noticed that there was no "what to watch now" available. Can't remember if it was greyed out or what - regular icons and apps were present on tivo central - but what to watch now couldn't be accessed - noticed first from a connected tivo mini.


Perhaps you were shown a C501 error? If so, that has been corrected. The Search function is still having some problems.


----------



## MLM1 (Apr 26, 2008)

HoosontheTeevo said:


> thanks krkaufman, yes 2.4p latest kmttg. see my update to my post my roamio is back up and working well w/good kmttg funcitonality.
> 
> side note- is it possible to upload shows back to my tivo box again - or is this still not possible - downloads only?
> 
> Thanks MLM1 - yes i think i stumbled onto a similar solution. i similarly deleted anything recorded the day this began and cleared recently deleted shows, etc. Then I eventually began to plug in the ethernet when I'd try a service connection only - and though it crashed several times - it eventually connected and completed the download for something lengthy and that must have done it. though when it did succeed i didn't immediately take the ethernet cable out and probably should have- but a few more crashes and plugged in briefly for service connections later and the issue has resolved. excellent snappy performance today. updated my post. thanks for your thoughts.


Our Tivo worked fine for a week and then started rebooting again for no apparent reason.

I followed the same procedure as before and it is working okay again.

Not sure what is going on.


----------

