# ByeBye D*TV ... Hello FIOS



## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

Well, made the jump to FIOS after 10+ years with D*TV, but haven't pulled the plug on my D* service yet.

After I cancel the satellite services, I presume that I can still access the Now Playing programs for viewing or archiving to DVD-R. Can someone confirm this assumption to be true?

Will there be any other functionality remaining on my HR10-250, R10, HDVR2 & DSR-6000 units? Can I unplug, move to another room and reboot without satellite connections?

BTW, got a FIOS DVR to start off with, but it's terrible after 8+ years of TiVo. Also have a TiVo S3 (with CableCards) and a TiVo S2 (with a STB) to use with FIOS, and will later use my Promo $200 Best Buy gift card to get a TiVoHD for $99. At that point the FIOS DVR will be returned.


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

All you can do without a subscription is watch what has been recorded.

Do you want to sell your HD DVR? 

And I forgot to add that without programming data, you lose the ability to schedule recordings.


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

From what I've read at other forums, you should disconnect the satellite feed from the dvr before you call to cancel so the the dvr function can't be disabled.


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

trnsfrguy said:


> From what I've read at other forums, you should disconnect the satellite feed from the dvr before you call to cancel so the the dvr function can't be disabled.


Can you define 'dvr function'? Can they actually do this and would that mean that saved programs could not be viewed or burned to DVD?

Can you point me to a discussion where additional info could be obtained?


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

cowboys2002 said:


> All you can do without a subscription is watch what has been recorded.
> 
> Do you want to sell your HD DVR?
> 
> And I forgot to add that without programming data, you lose the ability to schedule recordings.


Haven't made any decisions yet on equipment disposal, but I'll keep you in mind if I decide to sell my HR10.


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

Good luck with FIOS. I love letting folks like you beta test new technology so I know that when I finally adopt it, it will be trouble-free.


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

xfm said:


> Can you define 'dvr function'? Can they actually do this and would that mean that saved programs could not be viewed or burned to DVD?
> 
> Can you point me to a discussion where additional info could be obtained?


You can get more info at www.dbstalk.com. As I understand it, once you cancel the dvr can't even play back anything you have on your playlist.

EDIT: here's a thread that answers your question.http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=110874


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

trnsfrguy said:


> You can get more info at www.dbstalk.com. As I understand it, once you cancel the dvr can't even play back anything you have on your playlist.
> 
> EDIT: here's a thread that answers your question.http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=110874


Thanks. I'll check it out.


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## doncoolio (Jul 9, 2006)

Dkerr24 said:


> Good luck with FIOS. I love letting folks like you beta test new technology so I know that when I finally adopt it, it will be trouble-free.


Is fios even offered in your state? Do you have personal experience with Fios? I do, and D* is getting kicked to the curb when my neighborhood gets lit up.


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

Dkerr24 said:


> Good luck with FIOS. I love letting folks like you beta test new technology so I know that when I finally adopt it, it will be trouble-free.


FWIW, FIOS has been a great investment so far -- better picture quality, lots more channels (especially HD), more premium channels, ability to use my TiVo S3 with cable cards, faster internet, and I save $95/month vs old independent TV/Phone/Internet. Plus I get a choice of a free Sharp 19" HDTV or a $200 Best Buy gift card, which I plan to use for a TiVoHD DVR.

Order administration at Verizon is an absolute horror show, but tech support guys are sharp and helpful in working around administrative screwups.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

xfm said:


> FWIW, FIOS has been a great investment so far -- better picture quality, lots more channels (especially HD), ...


Since each community is different for channel availability, please list what HD channels you have. Thanks.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Dkerr24 said:


> Good luck with FIOS. I love letting folks like you beta test new technology so I know that when I finally adopt it, it will be trouble-free.


Well, I've been "beta testing" this for over a year. I would say it is one of the best technology moves I've ever made, both for the video and the 15/15 internet. It's really great to down load an unbox movie in under 30 minutes order to completion.

If you have it available, you should go for it. Beta testing is over.

Al


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

doncoolio said:


> Is fios even offered in your state? Do you have personal experience with Fios? I do, and D* is getting kicked to the curb _IF_ my neighborhood gets lit up.


FYP.

I lived in the Long Beach Ca market and as of last week, my former area STILL does not have FIOS!

I live in an ATT market and can't get VOICEMAIL let alone U-Verse. DTV,Dish or Comcast are my only options (other than OTA).

I had my issues with Comcast in another market with outages on my HSI. Had problems with TV access in the past as well. I am very leary of trusting my home phone service to a company with a history of not meeting my service expectations on their "core" products.

That said, I really hope FIOS comes to your area and meets your needs.

I am sticking with DTV for my TV needs for CONTENT. My HD DVR gets installed 12/22/07, so I will check in later.


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

JimSpence said:


> Since each community is different for channel availability, please list what HD channels you have. Thanks.


Northern NJ HD channels:

CW
CBS
PBS
NBC
FOX
ABC
My9 WWOR
TNT
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
NFL Net HD
YES HD
SNNY HD
HDNET
HDNET Movies
UHD
Discovery HD
Wealth TV HD
Nat'l Geographic HD
MTV HD
Food Network HD
HGTV HD
Lifetime Movie Net HD
HBO HD
Cinemax HD
Showtime HD
TMC HD
Starz HD


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

cowboys2002 said:


> FYP.
> 
> I lived in the Long Beach Ca market and as of last week, my former area STILL does not have FIOS!
> 
> ...


I'm in Cypress too and I seem to get U-Verse mailers weekly. But U-Verse does not interest me in the least.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Thanks,
Well, there are a few there that DirecTV doesn't yet carry. 
And a whole lot more than TWC carries. Also, FIOS isn't even mentioned around here. Guess I'll stay with DirecTV.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

OK, without going to a full list - off the top of my head, here's what I can see missing from yours...

CNN
TBS
VH1
MUSIC
CMT
WEATHER
NICK
SCIFI
BRAVO
FX
BRAVO
Multiple Movie channels, not just one of each
FOX BUSINESS
SMITHSONIAN
A&E
ANIMAL PLANET
BIG 10 (x2)
CARTOON
CNBC
TLC
USA

D* doesn't have...

CW
PBS
Wealth
My9 (Local I guess)

I'm not meaning to start a war here, but how can you claim you have "lots more channels (especially HD)" when you clearly don't?


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

doncoolio said:


> Is fios even offered in your state? Do you have personal experience with Fios? I do, and D* is getting kicked to the curb when my neighborhood gets lit up.


Yep, FIOS is offered here through AT&T (formerly Southwestern Bell)... just hasn't made it to my neighborhood yet. I'll have to rate compare it to what I pay to Directv/AT&T for my TV, phone and DSL. I really don't even want/need a landline anymore, I just keep it for the DSL. My Directv bill runs around $75/month, my AT&T landline with DSL costs $50/month.

I only have SD sets, no real desire to go to HD. In my opinion, HD sets are still too expensive. I'll wait until a 36" or so HD set costs less than $400 before I'm buying in.

And like others have posted, the channel lineup will have to closely mirror what I currently get with Directv.

I really would not want to pay more for Tivo... $14.99/month is what it costs for a S3 subscription, right?


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

Dkerr24 said:


> Yep, FIOS is offered here through AT&T (formerly Southwestern Bell)... just hasn't made it to my neighborhood yet. I'll have to rate compare it to what I pay to Directv/AT&T for my TV, phone and DSL. I really don't even want/need a landline anymore, I just keep it for the DSL. My Directv bill runs around $75/month, my AT&T landline with DSL costs $50/month.
> 
> I only have SD sets, no real desire to go to HD. In my opinion, HD sets are still too expensive. I'll wait until a 36" or so HD set costs less than $400 before I'm buying in.
> 
> ...


Isn't FIOS a Verizon product, and U-Verse the ATT product?


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

20TIL6 said:


> I'm in Cypress too and I seem to get U-Verse mailers weekly. But U-Verse does not interest me in the least.


I keep seeing ATT trucks in the area "upgrading" or doing GOD knows what.

I am interested in having a true alternative to COMCAST.

Until then, I will stick with DirecTV.


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## tboggs13 (Nov 14, 2007)

I have had the THD for about a week, but today the FIOS guys came out to perform the install. It took 3 hours to complete. You may think that is bad, but I live in Keller, TX where FIOS fist rolled out. As soon as the fiber was on my street and before the grass regrew around the junction box on my corner, I had it ordered.

The first install (all Verizon supplied equipment) took 6-7 hours. By the end of the day I had three teams parked out front. They had a rule that all the teams gather with the last team working.

Then, Verizon rolled out their multi-room media DVR upgrade. You could upgrade on device to those features with a click of a switch, but at the time I had two DVR's and they do not support DVR to DVR streaming, just DVR to STB (non-HD) streaming. So, I had them come out and "downgrade" one DVR to an STB and then I could use the streaming feature. This took 4 hours as I recall.

I have learned to schedule installs in the morning and be prepared to have them here all day.

Even with the long installs, I wouldn't trade the Internet or Cable service for anything. In fact if I have to move it will be a determining factor. It has been the most reliable internet service I have ever had and a fairly reliable Cable service.

The CableCard install was probably more frustrating for them than me. I was prepared for the worst and compared to other installs with all their equipment, it went very well. They installed the cards and TiVo recognized them fine. Immediately I had the HD broadcast channels that were missing before. The hard part came when they had to get all the "other" cable channels. They had to refresh and "validate" each card 3-4 times to get it to pick up my service plan and add the missing channels.

During those attempts, the TiVo rebooted once on it's own and it locked up once after loading updated programming info.

So, after four hours, it seems to be working rather well. Only problem is that all my show are on hiatus and I can't schedule anything.

So, we shall see how it goes from here. I definitely like the TiVo better than the FIOS DVR, especially after their recent GUI makeover.


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## doncoolio (Jul 9, 2006)

Dkerr24 said:


> Yep, FIOS is offered here through AT&T (formerly Southwestern Bell)... just hasn't made it to my neighborhood yet. I'll have to rate compare it to what I pay to Directv/AT&T for my TV, phone and DSL. I really don't even want/need a landline anymore, I just keep it for the DSL. My Directv bill runs around $75/month, my AT&T landline with DSL costs $50/month.
> 
> I only have SD sets, no real desire to go to HD. In my opinion, HD sets are still too expensive. I'll wait until a 36" or so HD set costs less than $400 before I'm buying in.
> 
> ...


1. Fios is a Verizon product, ATT sells UVERSE. Again You know nothing about Fios.
2. I couldn't care less about you not wanting to spend extra for a s3 subscription, or what channels suite you, because my original post was in response to your calling Fios a Beta product when you have no knowledge about it.
3. D* is your best option where you live, that doesn't mean it fits other peoples needs.


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

cowboys2002 said:


> Isn't FIOS a Verizon product, and U-Verse the ATT product?


Yep.


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

cowboys2002 said:


> Isn't FIOS a Verizon product, and U-Verse the ATT product?


You are right... it's U-verse in my area... very similiar technology to FIOS, just a bit different transfer mode in the last few thousand feet to the end user. From what I've read, the possible top end transfer speed of FIOS is much higher than Uverse.


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

doncoolio said:


> 1. Fios is a Verizon product, ATT sells UVERSE. Again You know nothing about Fios.
> 2. I couldn't care less about you not wanting to spend extra for a s3 subscription, or what channels suite you, because my original post was in response to your calling Fios a Beta product when you have no knowledge about it.
> 3. D* is your best option where you live, that doesn't mean it fits other peoples needs.


Feeling superior now? I'm happy for you.


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## doncoolio (Jul 9, 2006)

"Good luck with FIOS. I love letting folks like you beta test new technology so I know that when I finally adopt it, it will be trouble-free."

Feeling superior now? I'm happy for you.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

The poster is probably basing his comparison on what DTV was offering when he made the decision to dump DTV. A few months ago when DTV was charging $10/month for not much more then a handful of channels.

Verizon has already announced they'll have 150 HD channels by the end of 2008. They further announced the number of channels will double prior to that, in the beginning of the 2008.

We're in the middle of a small (6 month window) during which DTV has more (useful) HD channels then FiOS



TonyTheTiger said:


> I'm not meaning to start a war here, but how can you claim you have "lots more channels (especially HD)" when you clearly don't?


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

lew said:


> The poster is probably basing his comparison on what DTV was offering when he made the decision to dump DTV. A few months ago when DTV was charging $10/month for not much more then a handful of channels.
> 
> Verizon has already announced they'll have 150 HD channels by the end of 2008. They further announced the number of channels will double prior to that, in the beginning of the 2008.
> 
> We're in the middle of a small (6 month window) during which DTV has more (useful) HD channels then FiOS


I only listed HD channels, not SD. PLUS, I'm comparing to the HD stations that I can get with TiVo service, NOT the inferior HR20 POC.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

xfm said:


> I only listed HD channels, not SD. PLUS, I'm comparing to the HD stations that I can get with TiVo service, NOT the inferior HR20 POC.


..and you have experience with the "inferior HR20 POC" or have you just decided to hammer it?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

xfm said:


> I only listed HD channels, not SD. PLUS, I'm comparing to the HD stations that I can get with TiVo service, NOT the inferior HR20 POC.


Psst!.. I hate to tell you this, but TiVo doesn't provide any HD channels. That would be your FIOS system.


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## 87Heel (Dec 22, 2007)

I have had DirectTV for 8 years using the DTV compatible Tivo. I am finally moving into the HD world, but TivoHD is not supported, so I have three options and being a novice, could use some advice from you verterans.

1. Stick with DTV and go with their HDDVR = giving up Tivo
2. Go with Verizon FiOS using their HD DVR's
3. Go with Verizon FiOS and buy the $300 Tivo HD

I've been leaning towards #3 but I hear with the Tivo HD, you cannot utilize the FiOS On demand pr PPV. Is this true? If so, I may go with #2.

I would really love to stick with Tivo, but I've read mixed reviews relative to just using FiOS's HD DVR's.

Help!!


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

JimSpence said:


> Psst!.. I hate to tell you this, but TiVo doesn't provide any HD channels. That would be your FIOS system.


You guys are tough!

I believe you already know that I meant getting the HD channels not FROM TiVo, but WITH (the word I specifically chose to use) TiVo service as a companion/overlay/interface/access path/etc etc etc.

As far as the HR20 is concerned, I base my assessment on the extensive posts in this and other forums clearly evidencing its inferiority to the TiVo experience and capabilities. Jim, what's your read?

However, I can absolutely and unequivocally state from experience that the FIOS DVR is a seriously deficient unit from many aspects (when compared to TiVo). One cannot toggle between tuners and hold both buffers, one can't page through the guide listings of 100s of channels (I can't describe the pleasure of perusing the guide line by line by line by line... -- you get the idea), and the list goes on.

Mine will be returned as soon as I get my promo gift card and get a TiVoHD.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

xfm said:


> You guys are tough!
> 
> I believe you already know that I meant getting the HD channels not FROM TiVo, but WITH (the word I specifically chose to use) TiVo service as a companion/overlay/interface/access path/etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


Hence the use of the .  It's best to be specific around here. 

I have both DirecTV TiVos (T60 and HR10) and the HR20. I am not one that absolutely abhors the HR20. Is it different? Yes? I am getting used to it. Would I like dual buffers? Of course. Can I live without it? Yes. Just set one tuner to record, then you have the buffer for the other tuner. 
The guide is my biggest disappointment as I have gotten used to the TiVo style. But then, with Series Links (Season Passes) I don't tend to peruse the guide very often. With the launch of the multitude of HD channels by DirecTV, I've set my Favorites list to just those and a few SD channels.

Do you liken the FIOS DVR to the DirecTV HD DVR in its deficiencies?


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

JimSpence said:


> Hence the use of the .  It's best to be specific around here.
> 
> I have both DirecTV TiVos (T60 and HR10) and the HR20. I am not one that absolutely abhors the HR20. Is it different? Yes? I am getting used to it. Would I like dual buffers? Of course. Can I live without it? Yes. Just set one tuner to record, then you have the buffer for the other tuner.
> The guide is my biggest disappointment as I have gotten used to the TiVo style. But then, with Series Links (Season Passes) I don't tend to peruse the guide very often. With the launch of the multitude of HD channels by DirecTV, I've set my Favorites list to just those and a few SD channels.
> ...


Jim

I guess the HR20 shares what I consider to be one of the most glaring deficiencies of the FIOS DVR; i.e, the inability to swap tuners with buffers intact. I can't tell you how many times I've swapped tuners with (with, not from) my TiVos during sports coverage or news. The decision not to activate this basic functionality is inexcusable. The resources are all present. The designers explicitly chose not to utilize them -- in my engineering mind, an inexcusable exclusion, especially since it's software, which is a one-time expense not affecting recurring hardware cost. A sign of not thinking the problem through from the user (read customer) perspective.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Here's a search I did for "DLB" (dual live buffer) on the DBStalk forum.
http://www.dbstalk.com/search.php?searchid=2742867
This link may not be valid very long, so check it out the results for more info on this subject.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

xfm said:


> Jim
> 
> I guess the HR20 shares what I consider to be one of the most glaring deficiencies of the FIOS DVR; i.e, the inability to swap tuners with buffers intact. I can't tell you how many times I've swapped tuners with (with, not from) my TiVos during sports coverage or news. *The decision not to activate this basic functionality is inexcusable.* The resources are all present. The designers explicitly chose not to utilize them -- in my engineering mind, an inexcusable exclusion, especially since it's software, which is a one-time expense not affecting recurring hardware cost. A sign of not thinking the problem through from the user (read customer) perspective.


And yet by switching to a non-TiVo based product, you'd give up those features, true? So, if you call up Verizon and get their DVR you get no dual buffers with it, correct?

So, if it's inexecusable for one company, why not for the other?

Really, there's a lot of venom for the HR20 from a relatively small (but incredibly and ridiculously vocal) group. Get past that and you find that the HR20 is not a bad product. It keeps getting improved, and has gotten much better over time. No, it still doesn't include dual live buffers, but it functions as a DVR and does a fine job at doing so.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Just to put the record straight, the designers did NOT "explicitly choose not to utilize them". The DLB is, as I understand it, a patented technology, so it can't just be added as the mood takes. TiVo holds the rights to this feature, just like the jump-back when you FF, so in order to use it on their DVR, they have to go to TiVo and get permission!

BTW, I agree with most of the sentiments expressed regarding the HR20. I have two and have owned them for about 15 months and yes, they're not TiVos and yes, there are times I have cursed the [email protected] out of them, but they have improved considerably and they work. My HR10 is retired to the office and runs my SlingBox.

Would I prefer a TiVo-based box? Of course I would. But I have no Fios choice available and my local cable sucks - no HD at all and limited digital channels - and the analog channels look like crap on my 53" TV. So, apart from Dish, I have no options at all.


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

xfm said:


> Can you define 'dvr function'? Can they actually do this and would that mean that saved programs could not be viewed or burned to DVD?


As long as you disconnect it from the dish BEFORE shutting the service off, you can watch ALL pre-recorded shows on the hard drive with no problems.
I have done this several times on old Tivos & never a problem doing this...


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

dishrich said:


> As long as you disconnect it from the dish BEFORE shutting the service off, you can watch ALL pre-recorded shows on the hard drive with no problems.
> I have done this several times on old Tivos & never a problem doing this...


I understand what you've said, but has anyone actually established or experienced first-hand a D*TV "shutdown" of ALL DVR functions in the event that the account is cancelled with the sat inputs still connected?

In other words, does D*TV really have a "silver bullet" they can send to disable the viewing of programs already recordedon the TiVo HDD?

BTW, my comments on the HR20 were really directed at the FIOS DVR, which I will give back to V* right after I get my promo gift card and get a TiVoHD unit. I will then be 100% TiVo DVR once again. Can't wait!


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

xfm said:


> I understand what you've said, but has anyone actually established or experienced first-hand a D*TV "shutdown" of ALL DVR functions in the event that the account is cancelled with the sat inputs still connected?
> 
> In other words, does D*TV really have a "silver bullet" they can send to disable the viewing of programs already recordedon the TiVo HDD?
> 
> BTW, my comments on the HR20 were really directed at the FIOS DVR, which I will give back to V* right after I get my promo gift card and get a TiVoHD unit. I will then be 100% TiVo DVR once again. Can't wait!


After running the zipper on a DTivo, the files on the drive it records are unencoded mpeg2 files. Shutting off satellite service before disconnecting the unit from the satellite wouldn't 'lock' those programs from viewing.


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

trnsfrguy said:


> From what I've read at other forums, you should disconnect the satellite feed from the dvr before you call to cancel so the the dvr function can't be disabled.


If it isn't connected to the sats, the DVR function will eventually be disabled anyway. And you won't have any live TV anyway (except on the HR10's OTA tuners.) I'm not 100% certain of how the HR10 functions when configured as "OTA only." At any rate, you will always be able to watch what the unit has recorded.

[edit: Btw, if it is disconnected at the time it's removed from your account, the channels it was receiving will still be enabled when you reconnect it. They will eventually be turned off, but for a while, you'll have a fully functioning, unsubscribed DVR. That'll only work until they cycle the scrambler codes, but they don't appear to be doing that (for non-premium channels) very often these days. My parent's HDVR2 worked for several hours, 2 months after it was removed -- it was disconnected when it was replaced.]

[edit2: I forgot to mention, it will continue to get guide data as long as it's connected. It doesn't have to be subscribed. I am uncertain how the HR10's OTA guide data will fair in the absence of a subscription telling it what channels to select.]



TonyTheTiger said:


> ..and you have experience with the "inferior HR20 POC" or have you just decided to hammer it?


Most likely, both. If all you want is to watch TV, any receiver will do. If, like me, you've been using Tivo's for many years, the R15/HR20/HR21 will be a disappointment. You may grow to like it; Or not. Personally, the lack of two live buffers makes watching live tv a pain. And the "nintendo ui" is a pain in the ass -- every button does something different depending on where you are, having to press and hold buttons to do simple things...



TonyTheTiger said:


> Just to put the record straight, the designers did NOT "explicitly choose not to utilize them".


Actually, yes they did. There are many things their DVRs do differently and out-right don't do explicitly due to patents (and any possible patent.) The entire reason to not sell DTivo's any more was to stop paying Tivo, Inc. (about $1 per SUBSCRIBER, not receiver.) Having to license practically anything from anyone would be far more costly than dealing with Tivo, Inc. Maybe that's why they bought the long defunct ReplayTV.

And for the record, their DVRs do have "overshoot correction" -- unless it was a recent addition. It's hard to notice, but it's there; took me months to notice it


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

cramer said:


> If it isn't connected to the sats, the DVR function will eventually be disabled anyway. And you won't have any live TV anyway (except on the HR10's OTA tuners.) I'm not 100% certain of how the HR10 functions when configured as "OTA only." At any rate, you will always be able to watch what the unit has recorded.
> 
> [edit: Btw, if it is disconnected at the time it's removed from your account, the channels it was receiving will still be enabled when you reconnect it. They will eventually be turned off, but for a while, you'll have a fully functioning, unsubscribed DVR. That'll only work until they cycle the scrambler codes, but they don't appear to be doing that (for non-premium channels) very often these days. My parent's HDVR2 worked for several hours, 2 months after it was removed -- it was disconnected when it was replaced.]
> 
> [edit2: I forgot to mention, it will continue to get guide data as long as it's connected. It doesn't have to be subscribed. I am uncertain how the HR10's OTA guide data will fair in the absence of a subscription telling it what channels to select.]


The HR10 will function as an HD receiver without service as I understand it. There will be no DVR functions available.



cramer said:


> Most likely, both. If all you want is to watch TV, any receiver will do. If, like me, you've been using Tivo's for many years, the R15/HR20/HR21 will be a disappointment. You may grow to like it; Or not. Personally, the lack of two live buffers makes watching live tv a pain. And the "nintendo ui" is a pain in the ass -- every button does something different depending on where you are, having to press and hold buttons to do simple things...


Getting used to ANY new technology can be a pain if it's different to what you are used to. That doesn't make it inferior or necessarily a disappointment, just, well, different!

I am unaware of ANY buttons that "do something different depending on where you are" or having to "press and hold buttons to do simple things". If you are talking about the color-coded buttons that are screen-specific, surely this is a good thing as they make more sense to do what's needed rather than having too many redundant buttons. Again, this refers to the "getting used to the new interface: point I made earlier.



cramer said:


> Actually, yes they did. There are many things their DVRs do differently and out-right don't do explicitly due to patents (and any possible patent.) The entire reason to not sell DTivo's any more was to stop paying Tivo, Inc. (about $1 per SUBSCRIBER, not receiver.) Having to license practically anything from anyone would be far more costly than dealing with Tivo, Inc. Maybe that's why they bought the long defunct ReplayTV.
> 
> And for the record, their DVRs do have "overshoot correction" -- unless it was a recent addition. It's hard to notice, but it's there; took me months to notice it


No. Avoiding potential lawsuits (of which there have been many - TiVo is a litigious company!) is not the same as choosing not to utilize something. I'm sure it grieves the programmers not to be able to include certain features for this reason, especially when it's probably a simple piece of code.

Oh and by the way...

Merry Christmas!


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## HellFish (Jan 28, 2007)

bdowell said:


> And yet by switching to a non-TiVo based product, you'd give up those features, true? So, if you call up Verizon and get their DVR you get no dual buffers with it, correct?
> 
> So, if it's inexecusable for one company, why not for the other?


According to the 1st post, the answer seems pretty straight forward. He's switching to Verzion because he wants to keep TiVo. He hates D*TV & Verizon's home brew DVRs, but with Verizon he can use an S3 Tivo.

This is why Verizon won the contest with xfm, they give us an _*option*_. After I read through this thread, xfm isn't saying Verizon's DVR is better, he's saying Verizon is better because he can use Tivo with their HD channels (again, I refer you to post#1).

Once FIOS becomes available in my area, I will consider switching as well. The additional fact that Verizon will offer the local Comcast sports' channel is another huge plus.

But I digress... Is it wrong for people to want HD & TiVo? If I can use DTV with an S3 by that time, the decision will be more difficult.


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

HellFish said:


> According to the 1st post, the answer seems pretty straight forward. He's switching to Verzion because he wants to keep TiVo. He hates D*TV & Verizon's home brew DVRs, but with Verizon he can use an S3 Tivo.
> 
> This is why Verizon won the contest with xfm, they give us an _*option*_. After I read through this thread, xfm isn't saying Verizon's DVR is better, he's saying Verizon is better because he can use Tivo with their HD channels (again, I refer you to post#1).
> 
> ...


Well said. The FIOS DVR is my first non-TiVo DVR, and it certainly is different. However, it is not the 'difference' per se but the clumsy ungraceful UI and lack of key valuable capabilities that lead me to my conclusions.


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## turey22 (Nov 11, 2007)

I was reading thru this forum and you guys kept talking about FIOS...What is FIOS? Why is it better than DTV?


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Sorry, can't help you with FIOS but I did just sign up for ATT Uverse (in my mind they will always be SWB) Don't get the install until mid January but am pretty excited. One DVR and two receivers. Only needs one coax to each device. After the next upgrade, the other receivers will be able to pull content from the DVR. DVR can record up to 4 shows at once. Month to month, no contract. I'm sad its not TIVO but am glad its not Dire*cTV. Didn't bother to call Dire*cTV and "see what they would give me to stay." Direc*cTV has always been ok to me, didn't like them dumping TIVO and didn't like their regular fee raising.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

FIOS (or FiOS, to be more accurate) and uVerse are basically the same thing. It's Fiber-Optic Service. The attraction is extremely high speed data transfer, making broadband very fast and the option for On-Demand services exceptional.

The downside is that at the moment, it's very expensive to install (for the companies, not necessarily for you) as a new fiber-optic line has to be run to each user. This means that rollout is slow and availability is limited at this time.

The system itself is not necessarily better than D* as it all depends on the provider. ANY system is only as good as the content (hence the great HR10 - HR2x debate!), but FiOS does have the advantage of being a better delivery technology when it is in place.


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## doncoolio (Jul 9, 2006)

TonyTheTiger said:


> FIOS (or FiOS, to be more accurate) and uVerse are basically the same thing. It's Fiber-Optic Service. The attraction is extremely high speed data transfer, making broadband very fast and the option for On-Demand services exceptional.
> 
> The downside is that at the moment, it's very expensive to install (for the companies, not necessarily for you) as a new fiber-optic line has to be run to each user. This means that rollout is slow and availability is limited at this time.
> 
> The system itself is not necessarily better than D* as it all depends on the provider. ANY system is only as good as the content (hence the great HR10 - HR2x debate!), but FiOS does have the advantage of being a better delivery technology when it is in place.


Actually Fios is the only system where a fiber-optic line is run for each house. U-verse is more of an optimized DSL system using phone line for the last 3000 feet to the house. This gives Fios a huge bandwidth advantage over U-verse and the cable systems.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

According to what I've read Uverse doesn't have the bandwidth to support two HD streams at once and their HD quality has been pretty dicey to begin with. It really doesn't measure up to FiOS.

__________________


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

nrc said:


> According to what I've read Uverse doesn't have the bandwidth to support two HD streams at once and their HD quality has been pretty dicey to begin with. It really doesn't measure up to FiOS.


+1 - not even in the same league, ESPECIALLY the internet part!


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

doncoolio said:


> Actually Fios is the only system where a fiber-optic line is run for each house. U-verse is more of an optimized DSL system using phone line for the last 3000 feet to the house. This gives Fios a huge bandwidth advantage over U-verse and the cable systems.


Ah thanks for enlightening me. I misread an article about the new systems.


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