# TiVo To Drop Mini Service Fees?



## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

Zatz Not Funny who has been a reliable source of TiVo info before TiVo annouces it, is stating that TiVo may drop the fee requirement for the mini or at the least, lower it drastically. Now I have always had a fundamental issue with TiVo charging a service fee for a product that only functions when used with another TiVo device that requires a service fee. Perhaps they have seen the light! IMO - Tivo needs to kick their marketing department into overdrive and be more aggressive.

Only issue is that pure speculation is that if the do this, they will increase the purchase price of the Mini itself. We shall just have to wait and see if this really happens!

*TiVo To Drop Mini Service Fees*


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

If the rumblings are true about a "Tivo anywhere" strategy in the works, including apps for Roku and FireTV, re-examining the Mini pricing would make sense.

I love the box but was never a fan of the pricing model either.


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## swong_88 (Aug 12, 2014)

What are the implications for us who have paid the $150 lifetime subscription for the Minis? Will they refund us something or give us some kind of freebie down the road???


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I just got my 2 Minis today. 

.... Maybe I should return them or return one as the 2nd wasn't going to be highly used anyway.

I did get them for $187 with lifetime so not too bad. No tax nor shipping.

I'd guess they will start shipping them with the newer remote too. Kind of annoying they come with different remotes than the Roamio.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

swong_88 said:


> What are the implications for us who have paid the $150 lifetime subscription for the Minis? Will they refund us something or give us some kind of freebie down the road???


Probably they'll just raise the price so that basically everyone now buys a lifetime subscription .


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

swong_88 said:


> What are the implications for us who have paid the $150 lifetime subscription for the Minis? Will they refund us something or give us some kind of freebie down the road???


No... And you can't even make an argument that they should.

First, I wouldn't expect a huge overall price reduction - I just don't think marketing wise the service fee made sense - so it will be adjusted back to the base price.

If triplex got his for $187 all in, I bet that is ballpark pricing for this new fee structure. Does Walmart call you and say - hey, you know that blanket set you bought last year? We just rolled the price back - here is your rebate! I don't think so...

Second, don't expect that TiVo will just stop charging your mini monthly fee once the new pricing model goes in place (although they may offer a cheap lifetime incentive to the existing mini owners).

Third, and this is just speculation, but if they do offer a full featured Roku or fire channel - I would expect to see a small monthly subscription fee attached to it. Maybe not, but they might as well stop selling the mini altogether without a specific differentiator in either price or functionality.


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## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

I tend to believe that the Mini will become the only way to get the premium experience. With that I mean extras like on demand access though Xfinity. There will be most likely be differences to differentiate I am sure. I would expect the best experience through the mini, but other apps on other platforms will offer another avenue for people who don't care about a premium experience and just want basic access. 

I purchased mine used with Lifetime for around $200 and feel it is a great value. They include moca support and I can move them around easily, plus they take almost no power compared to a regular TiVo. Eventually there will be more apps and they will be an even more well rounded option.


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## jcoltrane (Mar 11, 2003)

Just returned my new TiVo Mini that I activated 5 days ago. I'll be buying another when this all shakes out, but I could not imagine having just paid for lifetime and having it become worthless overnight.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

bradleys said:


> No... And you can't even make an argument that they should.
> ...


I could (except for owning nothing newer than S3s) make an argument that a lifetime sub is a big part of the resale value of TiVo "stuff" and that destroying that value overnight isn't going to get TiVo the kind of word of mouth they'd prefer.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

unitron said:


> I could (except for owning nothing newer than S3s) make an argument that a lifetime sub is a big part of the resale value of TiVo "stuff" and that destroying that value overnight isn't going to get TiVo the kind of word of mouth they'd prefer.


So I paid $250 ($100 + $150) for the mini at release, I also paid $800 + service for the S3 on release and a year later they released the HD for $250 + service - and I purchased one of those as well.

If they take the mini and increase the base price to $200 and eliminate the service fee - I don't think you are impacting the resale value in the slightest.

I could be very surprised, but I see zero chance of TiVo keeping the base price at $100 and also removing fee... If they do, I will buy two on day one.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jcoltrane said:


> Just returned my new TiVo Mini that I activated 5 days ago. I'll be buying another when this all shakes out, but I could not imagine having just paid for lifetime and having it become worthless overnight.


How would it be worthless? My guess is the price of the Mini will just go up to be closer to being the current Mini+Lifetime. By getting rid of service fees, it just makes it easier to sell. Plus, they are clearly pushing Tivo anywhere, so this will make all the different hardware that supports it the same in terms of getting service (you just have to own the hardware).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Another counter argument, there were plenty of people who whined that the TTG features originally cost a ton of money ($150??), then they made them free. AFAIK, they didn't refund people's money.

If it were $100 total, I might (wishy-washy I admit) buy a Tivo Mini _JUST_ so I could leave my actual Tivos in Standby and avoid the [email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]!# EAS "test" that happens every week at 1AM, thus ruining some of my recordings. (Currently, I leave my Roamio in Standby most of the time, and stream from my P4.. Yes, I know the Roamio is faster, but since it has the most tuners, I have most SPs now on that one..)

Yes, I am recording (late night talk shows) at 1AM


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## jcoltrane (Mar 11, 2003)

rainwater said:


> How would it be worthless? My guess is the price of the Mini will just go up to be closer to being the current Mini+Lifetime. By getting rid of service fees, it just makes it easier to sell. Plus, they are clearly pushing Tivo anywhere, so this will make all the different hardware that supports it the same in terms of getting service (you just have to own the hardware).


Not worthless, but we have no idea how this is going to shake out. They could make the price $250 or they could keep it at $100 with no service fees, or anywhere in between. I think we can all agree they probably won't be raising the price. I'm pretty confidant that I will end up with a better deal on a Mini by waiting a month. And with the rest of the world comparing them to Roku and Fire Tv, I think a $100-$150 total price point makes them much more of a competitive product.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jcoltrane said:


> Not worthless, but we have no idea how this is going to shake out. They could make the price $250 or they could keep it at $100 with no service fees, or anywhere in between. I think we can all agree they probably won't be raising the price. I'm pretty confidant that I will end up with a better deal on a Mini by waiting a month. And with the rest of the world comparing them to Roku and Fire Tv, I think a $100-$150 total price point makes them much more of a competitive product.


I don't blame you for waiting until things become more clear. I would probably do the same thing. But, a TiVo Mini is a completely different animal than a Roku or Fire TV, and there is no reason why a Mini should be competitively priced with them, especially since TiVo would probably be losing money on every one they sell at $100 total. The TiVo Stream sells for $130, and that thing has less expensive hardware components, doesn't have to be perpetually supported with guide data and software updates, doesn't cannibalize DVR sales, and they don't have to include a $30 remote with it. I think the best you can hope for is a retail price of $199.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If they drop the total price with "lifetime", however it works, I'll probably buy one for the guest room. It wont get much use, but if it's cheap enough then it wont matter.


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## BH9244 (Feb 10, 2009)

Hmmm,I bought a Mini along with my new Roamio Pro but haven't activated the Mini Yet, whats the consensus should I wait or should I assume the "free" service will only effect newer + possibly more expensive minis ? Thoughts ?


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I hope the price goes up when the drop the service fee. I have 3 lifetime'ed Minis. Oh well.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bradleys said:


> No... And you can't even make an argument that they should.
> 
> First, I wouldn't expect a huge overall price reduction - I just don't think marketing wise the service fee made sense - so it will be adjusted back to the base price.
> 
> ...


Walmart wouldn't do it for something bought that long ago, but with most items at Walmart, if it was within the last 90 days you can get a refund of the price difference. Or you can return the item, within 90 days and buy a new one. But after 90 days you will be out of luck.

I know I certainly don't expect any refunds on my two launch Minis from early 2013. And the free lifetime Mini I got earlier this year, well that was free. I only paid for the extended warranty so I wouldn't expect anything for that either.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I would consider replacing the TiVo Minis in the most used rooms (media room, master bedroom, exercise room) if it offers significant speed improvement.

I'm wondering when TiVo will adopt MoCA v2.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

geekmedic said:


> I would consider replacing the TiVo Minis in the most used rooms (media room, master bedroom, exercise room) if it offers significant speed improvement.
> 
> I'm wondering when TiVo will adopt MoCA v2.


Speed improvement over what?

Premiere?


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## ort (Jan 5, 2004)

I wonder what sort of timeline they have on this. I have an old Series 2 hooked up to a cable box that is currently free, but will begin costing me money in January. My plan was to replace it with a Mini before that happens, but I'm sure as heck not buying one now that this news/rumor is out.

If a Roku is given full TiVo streaming service, why would anyone buy a Mini anyway? Isn't a Roku $100 or less? They're really going to have to take a good look at how they are pricing this stuff.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

ort said:


> I wonder what sort of timeline they have on this. I have an old Series 2 hooked up to a cable box that is currently free, but will begin costing me money in January. My plan was to replace it with a Mini before that happens, but I'm sure as heck not buying one now that this news/rumor is out.
> 
> If a Roku is given full TiVo streaming service, why would anyone buy a Mini anyway? Isn't a Roku $100 or less? They're really going to have to take a good look at how they are pricing this stuff.


Hi Ort,

So lets shed a little reality into what the rumor is... The rumor reported by DaveZ is an "_*imminent adjustment is in the pricing department*_" leaving him to "*speculate that the $6 monthly service fee will be reduced&#8230; or removed*"

Now, since all we can do is take a big flying WAG on what that might mean in real life, what is one plausible change? Well, the service fee could be rolled into the Mini along with some type of price reduction of the total cost of ownership - for argument sake, call it $200.

Now, Let's assume that TiVo does decide to produce a Roku app sometime in the future, what might that app look like?

I would not anticipate a full replacement for the Mini, think of it more like the IOS TiVo app. No dynamic tuner allocation, no channel surfing - only recorded TV. Would this app be service fee free? I don't know, maybe / maybe not.

In the scenario which would I purchase? I suppose it depends on the TV I wanted to put it on. If I had some seldom used TV in the game room, the Roku purchase might make a lot of sense, but for a regularly used TV, I would absolutely spring for the Mini.

-Do we know for sure that the end price is going to be reduced on the Mini - No
-Do we know for sure that TiVo is going to deliver a TiVo Roku channel in the near future - No

Wait, don't wait, it really doesn't really matter - but I don't think we are really talking about a substantive price difference at the end of the day


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

geekmedic said:


> I would consider replacing the TiVo Minis in the most used rooms (media room, master bedroom, exercise room) if it offers significant speed improvement.
> 
> I'm wondering when TiVo will adopt MoCA v2.


The speed on the Mini is pretty good already and networking speed doesn't really mater as long as it's fast enough to stream an HD program. (max 20Mbps)

If we see a hardware revision it will likely be to make the current platform cheaper, not faster. If we're looking for improvements I'd expect...

1) Built in RF for remote, just like Roamio
2) MoCa bridging
3) Built in wifi

Other then that the Mini is a pretty great piece of hardware already with my only real complaints being related to software.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

BH9244 said:


> Hmmm,I bought a Mini along with my new Roamio Pro but haven't activated the Mini Yet, whats the consensus should I wait or should I assume the "free" service will only effect newer + possibly more expensive minis ? Thoughts ?


If they are raising the retail prices, it might result in a new set of TSNs, so holding on too it will probably be fruitless. But no one really knows at this point.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I never really considered the resale value of the Minis I bought. Unlike the TiVo I can't really think of anything they could add to a new model that would compel me to sell the current ones. So I doubt I'll ever upgrade them. It's not like a TiVo where they can add more tuners or HDD space and entice me to upgrade. The Mini works perfectly for what I need it to do and my only real complaints are software related, which they can fix.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

My thought is that they're getting rid of the service fees for minis so they can blow them out of inventory and no longer have to manufacture that equipment (and maybe not even the full blown tivos eventually) because they're going to be releasing the replacement, which is the Roku, Amazon Fire, etc apps. 

I believe they're FINALLY really wanting to go mainstream and affordable enough to the masses to endure the trials of initial setup. They've always said they're a software company haven't they?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

^
I want some of what he is smoking!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bradleys said:


> ^ I want some of what he is smoking!


 I live on the Big Island, we got some good 5h!t here man, haha!


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## JayBird (Jan 26, 2003)

I recently bought a Mini from Amazon which is not yet activated. I am waiting to get my house wired with Cat6A throughout, which will be happening next month as part of a bigger renovation project to install a new media wall in our family room and relocate all of the electronics into an equipment closet. When that all happens I'll be hooking up the Mini to the TV in the bedroom.

But hearing this news, I sure would like the true story on what's going on regarding the service fee... Hopefully the news will get out before I'm ready to activate my mini about a month from now. A $150 savings would be really nice...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> My thought is that they're getting rid of the service fees for minis so they can blow them out of inventory and no longer have to manufacture that equipment (and maybe not even the full blown tivos eventually) because they're going to be releasing the replacement, which is the Roku, Amazon Fire, etc apps.
> 
> I believe they're FINALLY really wanting to go mainstream and affordable enough to the masses to endure the trials of initial setup. They've always said they're a software company haven't they?


Doubtful. The Mini provides a different experience then what's possible via Roku, FireTV, etc... The Mini is a full blown extender which provides an experience almost identical to using the TiVo itself. The Roku and FireTV apps will be more like the iOS app. It'll have a more limited UI experience and will use the Stream to recode (those devices don't support MPEG-2) so trick play will be more limited and less smooth.

Even if the Mini isn't a hot item at retail they need to keep making them for their MSO partners as it really adds to the whole house DVR marketing.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Doubtful. The Mini provides a different experience then what's possible via Roku, FireTV, etc... The Mini is a full blown extender which provides an experience almost identical to using the TiVo itself. The Roku and FireTV apps will be more like the iOS app. It'll have a more limited UI experience and will use the Stream to recode (those devices don't support MPEG-2) so trick play will be more limited and less smooth.
> 
> Even if the Mini isn't a hot item at retail they need to keep making them for their MSO partners as it really adds to the whole house DVR marketing.


Yeah, they are two different things. My button mashing on a Roku would be incredibly painful!

I'd imagine they do OK at retail, certainly just as well as the Roamio, even if the retail market as a whole is weak compared to the MSO market... The Roamio/Mini system just can't be beat, and it makes TiVo make sense now that you don't have to buy a $650 box with a $7/mo fee for every room. Now you can pay $250 a room, $1100 for the main room, and have a -$2.50/mo fee for the one box...


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

HarperVision said:


> My thought is that they're getting rid of the service fees for minis so they can blow them out of inventory and no longer have to manufacture that equipment (and maybe not even the full blown tivos eventually) because they're going to be releasing the replacement, which is the Roku, Amazon Fire, etc apps.
> 
> I believe they're FINALLY really wanting to go mainstream and affordable enough to the masses to endure the trials of initial setup. They've always said they're a software company haven't they?


And if they follow Dish and DirecTV's lead (DirecTV's RVU devices and Dish's Virtual Joey App), TiVo will charge a fee per month for use, but no big purchase price. So, from TiVo's view, they have just made it more attractive to the consumer by just charging some nominal monthly fee for use of the app FOREVER, with no option of Liftetime for the app. I think they will drop the Mini monthly charge, but raise its purchase price, but I also think that the (phased out?) Mini's with this new pricing will be the money saver in the long run, while the app will slowly drain your wallet over time and a never ending source of revenue for TiVo. Of course, this is all IMHO.

I was close to getting a Mini with Lifetime, but I'll be watching to see what the new pricing is on the Mini first, and then I just may get one.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Series3Sub said:


> And if they follow Dish and DirecTV's lead (DirecTV's RVU devices and Dish's Virtual Joey App), TiVo will charge a fee per month for use, but no big purchase price. So, from TiVo's view, they have just made it more attractive to the consumer by just charging some nominal monthly fee for use of the app FOREVER, with no option of Liftetime for the app. I think they will drop the Mini monthly charge, but raise its purchase price, but I also think that the (phased out?) Mini's with this new pricing will be the money saver in the long run, while the app will slowly drain your wallet over time and a never ending source of revenue for TiVo. Of course, this is all IMHO. I was close to getting a Mini with Lifetime, but I'll be watching to see what the new pricing is on the Mini first, and then I just may get one.


Agreed.


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## bill875 (Dec 3, 2003)

bradleys said:


> If triplex got his for $187 all in, I bet that is ballpark pricing for this new fee structure. Does Walmart call you and say - hey, you know that blanket set you bought last year? We just rolled the price back - here is your rebate! I don't think so...


Actually, they do, with Savings Catcher. Check it out https://savingscatcher.walmart.com/


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Using the E-Bay codes I got my last Mini at $178 with Lifetime.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Series3Sub said:


> And if they follow Dish and DirecTV's lead (DirecTV's RVU devices and Dish's Virtual Joey App), TiVo will charge a fee per month for use, but no big purchase price. So, from TiVo's view, they have just made it more attractive to the consumer by just charging some nominal monthly fee for use of the app FOREVER, with no option of Liftetime for the app. I think they will drop the Mini monthly charge, but raise its purchase price, but I also think that the (phased out?) Mini's with this new pricing will be the money saver in the long run, while the app will slowly drain your wallet over time and a never ending source of revenue for TiVo. Of course, this is all IMHO.
> 
> I was close to getting a Mini with Lifetime, but I'll be watching to see what the new pricing is on the Mini first, and then I just may get one.


TiVo is very different from DirecTV or DISH, as they aren't the pay TV provider.


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## grey ghost (Feb 2, 2010)

I just paid $150 for a Mini lifetime last week. I sure hope they don't drop the price. That will tick me off.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

grey ghost said:


> I just paid $150 for a Mini lifetime last week. I sure hope they don't drop the price. That will tick me off.


TiVo has a 30 day return period. So if they drop the price during that time period you should be able do something.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

grey ghost said:


> I just paid $150 for a Mini lifetime last week. I sure hope they don't drop the price. That will tick me off.


Why? I doubt you will be able to get the new priced Mini for much less than $150 including lifetime.


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

rainwater said:


> Why? I doubt you will be able to get the new priced Mini for much less than $150 including lifetime.


I'm sure everyone knows that the Mini is now $149.99 and includes Product Lifetime Service.


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## SlappyMcgee (Aug 27, 2013)

Are you sure it does? I was just looking at the product page and it shows "Plus Service" I clicked it and it says $5.99 monthly or $149 lifetime.


Edit: oh wow, if you add to cart it says "Service is included with this limited-time offer. Save $100." Very nice find. I am glad you posted this


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

SlappyMcgee said:


> Are you sure it does? I was just looking at the product page and it shows "Plus Service" I clicked it and it says $5.99 monthly or $149 lifetime.


TiVo just hasn't updated all areas of their website to reflect the new pricing yet.


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## SlappyMcgee (Aug 27, 2013)

LOL they just updated the product page, got rid of the "Plus Service"


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

SlappyMcgee said:


> Are you sure it does? I was just looking at the product page and it shows "Plus Service" I clicked it and it says $5.99 monthly or $149 lifetime. Edit: oh wow, if you add to cart it says "Service is included with this limited-time offer. Save $100." Very nice find. I am glad you posted this


This "find" and topic has been discussed for over a week already on the forums.


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## SlappyMcgee (Aug 27, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> This "find" and topic has been discussed for over a week already on the forums.


My apologies. I just now started looking into purchasing a Tivo Mini and I have not been the forums in forever so I was not aware.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

SlappyMcgee said:


> My apologies. I just now started looking into purchasing a Tivo Mini and I have not been the forums in forever so I was not aware.


No apology needed. Welcome back!


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

HarperVision said:


> This "find" and topic has been discussed for over a week already on the forums.


Actually, this is the original thread about Minis dropping service fees!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Davisadm said:


> Actually, this is the original thread about Minis dropping service fees!


Yeah really! How did he miss that in the very thread that started it all haha? Nah, Just joking slappy.



SlappyMcgee said:


> Are you sure it does? I was just looking at the product page and it shows "Plus Service" I clicked it and it says $5.99 monthly or $149 lifetime. Edit: oh wow, if you add to cart it says "Service is included with this limited-time offer. Save $100." Very nice find. I am glad you posted this


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## dadrepus (Jan 4, 2012)

Does this mean for any Mini already purchased? I mean if I buy a mini from eBay or craigslist can I be assured I will not have to pay a monthly fee once I activate it?


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## dmurphy (Jan 17, 2002)

dadrepus said:


> Does this mean for any Mini already purchased? I mean if I buy a mini from eBay or craigslist can I be assured I will not have to pay a monthly fee once I activate it?


... yes. And even if you have one that you're paying a fee on now, you can have it removed from your account and re-add it with no fee.


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## dadrepus (Jan 4, 2012)

Great to know. I need 1 ;-)


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## RibbitRibbit (Nov 4, 2017)

Grrr. I bought a mini in December 2013 and have been paying $5.99/month all this time!

Good news is, this still works: Call TiVo c/s, cancel the mini service, refuse their offer for $50 lifetime service. Then, once service is canceled, log in to Tivo.com and activate the mini's TSN as a "new" device. The mini will be activated with lifetime service for no charge.

DON'T go to the "inactive devices" tab and choose re-activate, as that will try to charge you money. Just pretend the mini is a brand-new TiVo you're activating for the first time.


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## RibbitRibbit (Nov 4, 2017)

ARgh. They just came back and billed me $49.99.


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## dmurphy (Jan 17, 2002)

RibbitRibbit said:


> ARgh. They just came back and billed me $49.99.


That's not cool. I don't remember the details but there used to be a way to get around that .....


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