# What happened to the new Tivo features DTV advertised at the end of last year



## crunchmunch (Aug 24, 2005)

Does anyone know the status of the update?


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## rbtravis (Aug 9, 2005)

crunchmunch said:


> Does anyone know the status of the update?


Like most of Directv's promises "The Answer my friend is blowing in the wind."


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I think I read somewhere that it would be Spring of '08.


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## OLdDog (Dec 15, 2001)

rbtravis said:


> Like most of Directv's promises "The Answer my friend is blowing in the wind."


And, of course, we all know EXACTLY what part of the anatomy that wind is blowing from.


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## rock_doctor (Oct 22, 2000)

It is coming some time between 1/08 and 12/00 (2100 that is)...  Personally, I do not want any more updates. Every update takes them three or more tries to get it right.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The announcement said "Early 2008". Make of that what you will.


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## JRAllas (Mar 26, 2006)

stevel said:


> The announcement said "Early 2008". Make of that what you will.


Whose calendar?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

It was actually mentioned at latest DirecTV conference call and was the only time Tivo was actually mentioned. So I'd say it's still in the works, but when...there has been no solid date.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

From the email I got this morning (asking yesterday about the update).

It is still planned, and should be spring 2008...
But both parties (Tivo and DirecTV) are still working on the update.


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## dcborn61 (Dec 9, 2002)

As a marketer, I just find it so odd that they made the announcement last year, sent out postcards and left voice mails about the upcoming features. I can't understand the motivation.

DTivo owners are in decline. DirecTV's attention has been on HD, where it should be. Why did DirecTV encourage us diehards to hang in there with our older machines? If we were upset about the move away from Tivo-powered DVRs, we would have left already, and the new features would not be enough to keep us around.

I think it is just to mess with our heads and keep the ever so slight possibility of reconciliation alive!!


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Most likely the contacts about this last year was probably due to the information getting leaked out and thus DirecTV figured they better get ahead of the game. DirecTV normally doesn't announce anything until it's ready so it was odd. Something behind the scenes obviously pushed them to announce it early.

Or they just wanted a short terms stock boost or something. Who knows.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

dcborn61 said:


> As a marketer, I just find it so odd that they made the announcement last year, sent out postcards and left voice mails about the upcoming features. I can't understand the motivation.
> 
> DTivo owners are in decline. DirecTV's attention has been on HD, where it should be. Why did DirecTV encourage us diehards to hang in there with our older machines? If we were upset about the move away from Tivo-powered DVRs, we would have left already, and the new features would not be enough to keep us around.
> 
> I think it is just to mess with our heads and keep the ever so slight possibility of reconciliation alive!!


My guess... which is the same guess I had at the time of the announcements.

That the "announcement" was more of TiVo's idea, to slow down any conversions of SD-TiVo's to other equipment.... that is just my guess.

TiVo still gets a segment of the DVR fee, as long as there is 1 TiVo powered unit on an account.

DirecTV does need some things to be updated in the DTiVo's so they are compatible with some of their planned changes, so these new features are probably comming along for the ride...

That is just my educated guest.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Tin Foil Hat: DirecTV needed Tivo to update the DirecTivo's so they don't choke on the "channels I receive" data stream change for the DVR+ series and Tivo said "sure, only if you let us do these udpates as well" so DirecTV said "sure, why not" just to get it done.


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## dcborn61 (Dec 9, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> My guess... which is the same guess I had at the time of the announcements.
> 
> That the "announcement" was more of TiVo's idea, to slow down any conversions of SD-TiVo's to other equipment.... that is just my guess.
> 
> TiVo still gets a segment of the DVR fee, as long as there is 1 TiVo powered unit on an account.


But why would DirecTV execute a Tivo idea that was not in DirecTV's financial interest? We've been told for the longest time that DirecTV pulls all the strings, that Tivo only does what DirecTV wants them to do. So why would DirecTV print and mail postcards and fire up the auto-dialer, if it only benefited Tivo? DirecTV is not really known for pre-announcements and vaporware...I can't believe there wasn't a strong reason in DirecTv's interest for doing this.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that DirecTV was seeing an uptick in churn among DTivo owners and thought the pre-announcement would encourage folks to stay put because "new things are coming, we haven't forgotten about you."


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

dcborn61 said:


> But why would DirecTV execute a Tivo idea that was not in DirecTV's financial interest? We've been told for the longest time that DirecTV pulls all the strings, that Tivo only does what DirecTV wants them to do. So why would DirecTV print and mail postcards and fire up the auto-dialer, if it only benefited Tivo? DirecTV is not really known for pre-announcements and vaporware...I can't believe there wasn't a strong reason in DirecTv's interest for doing this.
> 
> The only thing that makes sense to me is that DirecTV was seeing an uptick in churn among DTivo owners and thought the pre-announcement would encourage folks to stay put because "new things are coming, we haven't forgotten about you."


They all are just theories, none of us know why... your theory is just as good as mine... one I don't agree with, but just as good as mine is.

All we know is that both TiVo and DirecTV made the announcement.
TiVo has to write the changes, test the changes, and give it to DirecTV.
DirecTV has to test it, accept them... then distribute the update.


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## dcborn61 (Dec 9, 2002)

If I didn't know never to believe anything a CSR tells you, I would tout that I have proof that a new machine is coming.

My email question:

Hi the announcement http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P4330098 you made indicated that owners of DirecTivo DVRs would receive a software update with new features in early 2008. I still use a DVR80 as my main DirecTV receiver and have been anxiously awaiting this update.Can you tell me when in early 2008 these new features will be released?​
The answer I received (bold emphasis is mine):

I understand how important the Additional TiVo Features to you.However, we don't have exact date as to when this will happen. *We expect to have more information about this new advanced receiver soon*, so please stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest updates.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to directv.com for the latest news and information about our service.​


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

dcborn61 said:


> DTivo owners are in decline.!


If this is true in the slightest...it is only because DirecTv took advantage of the recent 6.3e software problems and conned everyone calling in about the problems into switching to their crappy DVR.

I feel bad for all the people that got suckered into renting that piece of crap.

Rob


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

robpickles said:


> If this is true in the slightest...it is only because DirecTv took advantage of the recent 6.3e software problems and conned everyone calling in about the problems into switching to their crappy DVR.
> 
> I feel bad for all the people that got suckered into renting that piece of crap.
> 
> Rob


Where have you been? 

There hasn't been an SD DirecTivo for sale from DirecTV in over 3 years. HD units in nearly 2. DirecTV and Tivo parted ways looooong ago. About 150K+ DirecTivo's are shut off every quarter and growing. Just a matter of time as people churn out or hard drives die.

Having said that, there is no reason to upgrade to the R15/R16 from an SD DirecTivo unless you want the interactive stuff. It's the HD units that are being replaced since the HR10-250 can't decode MPEG4 nor can it see the new sats.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

shibby191 said:


> Where have you been?
> 
> There hasn't been an SD DirecTivo for sale from DirecTV in over 3 years. HD units in nearly 2. DirecTV and Tivo parted ways looooong ago. About 150K+ DirecTivo's are shut off every quarter and growing. Just a matter of time as people churn out or hard drives die.


I have been successfully enjoying my R10 and HDVR2 for years now and even through the 6.3e reboot conspiracy, I waited it out, fixed my drives with the old software and when the "fix" came out I let one update as a test and has worked fine again ever since.

Rob


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

robpickles said:


> I have been successfully enjoying my R10 and HDVR2 for years now and even through the 6.3e reboot conspiracy, I waited it out, fixed my drives with the old software and when the "fix" came out I let one update as a test and has worked fine again ever since.
> 
> Rob


Just a note...

TiVo writes the software... so if it is a conspiracy... your beloved TiVo, Inc... is in on it.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

dcborn61 said:


> *We expect to have more information about this new advanced receiver soon*


 Where do I sign up?


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> That the "announcement" was more of TiVo's idea, to slow down any conversions of SD-TiVo's to other equipment.... that is just my guess...........DirecTV does need some things to be updated in the DTiVo's so they are compatible with some of their planned changes, so these new features are probably comming along for the ride...


My Theroy - DirecTV was worried about churn. The DirecTV/Tivo announcement came along just before the Comcast announced roll-out of the ComcastTivo product. I want Tivo and DirecTV to make nice as much as anyone, but it takes two to play. I am sure Tom Rogers would answer any telephone call DirecTV made. That was also about the time that Earl decided to start posting at TivoCommunity again after a self-imposed exile.



shibby191 said:


> Most likely the contacts about this last year was probably due to the information getting leaked out and thus DirecTV figured they better get ahead of the game. DirecTV normally doesn't announce anything until it's ready so it was odd. Something behind the scenes obviously pushed them to announce it early.
> 
> Or they just wanted a short terms stock boost or something. Who knows.


DirecTV never does pre-announce a product. I guess I should have stopped listening when they announced a "Better than Tivo" interface product was in testing in the Chicago area for release in 2009, during the recent DirecTV Investor's Day Conference call. The only reason DirecTV didn't send out a postcard was that everytime a company says that "Better than Tivo" thing, the Tivo subscribers just laugh.

Bonanza


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Bonanzaair said:


> My Theroy - DirecTV was worried about churn. The DirecTV/Tivo announcement came along just before the Comcast announced roll-out of the ComcastTivo product. I want Tivo and DirecTV to make nice as much as anyone, but it takes two to play. I am sure Tom Rogers would answer any telephone call DirecTV made. That was also about the time that Earl decided to start posting at TivoCommunity again after a self-imposed exile.


Worried about churn? There are numbers are up, and were up before that...
But hey... it is a theroy.

As for my return...
It had more to do with the high levels of fud being spewed over the DVR+ platform...

And I had enough time to cool off from the higher level of idiocracy that had me impose that self-imposed ban.


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## JohnDG (Oct 28, 2004)

Bonanzaair said:


> My Theroy - DirecTV was worried about churn. The DirecTV/Tivo announcement came along just before the Comcast announced roll-out of the ComcastTivo product. I want Tivo and DirecTV to make nice as much as anyone, but it takes two to play. I am sure Tom Rogers would answer any telephone call DirecTV made. That was also about the time that Earl decided to start posting at TivoCommunity again after a self-imposed exile.


I agree with Earl that DTV does not have an issue with churn: the industry numbers agree with him. And the DTV DVRs do just fine in my experience. I have a number of TiVos in addition to a HR21 and prefer the TiVo's overall UI, although I'd like to see some DTV DVR features on the TiVo, and I'd like to see some TiVo features on the DTV DVR.

However, when it comes to NEW customers who are making a choice between two vendors, it's nice to be able to offer all options and more compared to your competitor. In this case, TiVo -- The Brand -- does help with the sales cycle. If one has heard of "TiVo" from the media and/or friends, and the cable company offers TiVo whereas DTV does not, then this makes the DTV sale that much harder. You'll even note that Dish ads includes quotes like "Dish DVR is better than TiVo," so at least Dish is acknowledging that the brand "TiVo" is part of the new customer decision making process.

I think this sales offering is going to be even more important this and next year. Once the Analog to Digital conversion happens, a far number of people currently on an antenna are going to swap to cable/satellite due to convenience, and the fact that getting a digital OTA signal is more problematic. IMHO it would be in DTV's best interest to get a profitable TiVo offering lined up ASAP in anticipation of the last big increase in the number of potential new customers to happen anytime soon.

jdg


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

JohnDG said:


> If one has heard of "TiVo" from the media and/or friends, and the cable company offers TiVo whereas DTV does not, then this makes the DTV sale that much harder. You'll even note that Dish ads includes quotes like "Dish DVR is better than TiVo," so at least Dish is acknowledging that the brand "TiVo" is part of the new customer decision making process.


However... The word "TiVo" is also being used as a generic term for DVRing.

ESPN Radio 1000 here in Chicago... the afternoon show.
They always refer to as TiVoing it.... even though at least one of them is using an HR2* receiver (As he refers to recording Big Ten network, and Comcast sports net..) not something you can record on a TiVo..

So while the brand "TiVo" certainly is important to some.
The name for the last 10 years, has become synomous with the DVR.


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> However... The word "TiVo" is also being used as a generic term for DVRing........So while the brand "TiVo" certainly is important to some. The name for the last 10 years, has become synomous with the DVR.


OH H3LL Yes! But every time a "Better than Tivo" ad appears, everyone actually listening knows Tivo is the brand to beat. Rogers should thank Dish twice this year...once for the huge $$$$ patent case award check and for running that stupid ad. Maybe DirecTV will make the same mistake with their own ad.

As far the churn theory - Sure now, and maybe even then, but DirecTV didn't know just how fast ComcastTivo would rollout across the country. Any smart business team would have created a smoke screen to distract from a competitor's new offering. With DirecTV all it takes is a change in a customers account and zap - 2 year commitment - What churn?

Bonanza


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Bonanzaair said:


> As far the churn theory - Sure now, and maybe even then, but DirecTV didn't know just how fast ComcastTivo would rollout across the country. Any smart business team would have created a smoke screen to distract from a competitor's new offering. With DirecTV all it takes is a change in a customers account and zap - 2 year commitment - What churn?


I bet they had a much better idea (after working with TiVo on an integrated product), then any of us did...

And no... you have to add one of the modern receivers to yoru account to get the commitment.... changes to programming, or adding older equipment (like DTiVo's) doesn't not carry a commitment.

You still have millions of customers, that are not under any type of commitment... Probably more then 10-12 million customers... are they churning?


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

robpickles said:


> If this is true in the slightest...it is only because DirecTv took advantage of the recent 6.3e software problems and conned everyone calling in about the problems into switching to their crappy DVR.
> 
> I feel bad for all the people that got suckered into renting that piece of crap.
> 
> Rob


And being locked in for 2 more years for the privledge.


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## dcborn61 (Dec 9, 2002)

Decided to try to get an answer from as high up the DirecTV food chain as I could, so I guessed at the email address of Derek Chang, who was quoted in the 7/31/2007 press release.

Here's what I heard directly back from him:

_David,

Our engineers are working with the TiVo engineers to get this update out as soon as they can. We understand that you and others are looking forward to the update. Thank you for your interest and for being a DIRECTV customer.

Best,

Derek_

So I guess that means, we will see it when we see it.


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> I bet they had a much better idea (after working with TiVo on an integrated product), then any of us did...


UH? So they put out the DTivo upgrade press release because they didn't have anything better to do that day?



ebonovic said:


> And no... you have to add one of the modern receivers to yoru account to get the commitment.... changes to programming, or adding older equipment (like DTiVo's) doesn't not carry a commitment.


I'll echo some of what Billy Bob Boy said "And being locked in for 2 more years is a privledge."



ebonovic said:


> You still have millions of customers, that are not under any type of commitment... Probably more then 10-12 million customers... are they churning?


And as hard as DirecTV has tried they still can't budge the DTivo from over how many millions of DirecTV customers? Two million by your own account. How many of your non-committed customers even have "Advanced Equipment"? 40/50%?

Bonanza


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

1) DirecTV put out their press release after TiVo put theirs out... so yah... I bet they knew a lot more about the project and the reasons behind then any of us did.

2) You are not "locked" in... locked denotes that you have no way out... you can also pay the pro-rated fee to leave early if you want... some other carriers, will even pay you (or credit your account) to offset that fee.

3) What reason does the SD-DTiVo have to leave the household? There is no compelling reason to remove an SD-DTiVo... It still works... does it's job... and unless you are going to HD... there is no major reason to spend the money, or time to switch to an R15 or R16.

As for non-committed customer have "advanced equipment"... no idea. No numbers for that have ever been published.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Bonanzaair said:


> And as hard as DirecTV has tried they still can't budge the DTivo from over how many millions of DirecTV customers? Two million by your own account.


Hmmmm. Well, if you have an SD DirecTivo there is no reason to "upgrade" to an R15/16 unless you want the interactive stuff.

But the facts are that every quarter 155K (and growing) DirecTivo's are shut off. Been that way for a while now. It's down to just over 2 million left now. And at the same time DirecTV is adding over 250k new subs every quarter.

DirecTV isn't actively "converting" DirecTivo owners at all other then HD. And at their peak there were only 250K HR10s out there, less then 100K left now. DirecTV doesn't need to actively convert SD DirecTivo's, there is no reason to do so. Over time natural churn or dead hard drives takes care of it for them.

By the way, these numbers are all public from the Tivo and DirecTV financial reports.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> 3) What reason does the SD-DTiVo have to leave the household? There is no compelling reason to remove an SD-DTiVo... It still works... does it's job... and unless you are going to HD... there is no major reason to spend the money, or time to switch to an R15 or R16.


I thought DirecTV was intending on swapping out all of the existing SD boxes by the end of the year in order to change over to the Mpeg4 standard? Wasn't that included as part of their annual meeting presentation?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

bengalfreak said:


> I thought DirecTV was intending on swapping out all of the existing SD boxes by the end of the year in order to change over to the Mpeg4 standard? Wasn't that included as part of their annual meeting presentation?


They are planning to phase out SD DVRs for all new installs during this year. They will still have a SD non-DVR receiver. In 2009/2010 they are planning on phasing out SD non-DVR receivers for all new installs. So they are not going to install any new mpeg-2 based receivers in 2009/2010 time frame but they did not say they are going to replace the ones already in the field.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

bengalfreak said:


> I thought DirecTV was intending on swapping out all of the existing SD boxes by the end of the year in order to change over to the Mpeg4 standard? Wasn't that included as part of their annual meeting presentation?


There are no announced plans to eliminate the MPEG-2 SD data feed...
They are going to make sure future systems are all MPEG-4 compatible... but that is for future programming and features (for the most part).

They would have to replace about 40 million receivers if they got rid of MPEG-2 SD... it has taken 3 years to replace about 2 million HD receivers... and they are not done yet... how long do you think (and cost) to replace 40 million of them?


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## BrandonSi (Jun 5, 2003)

Is this the update that promised networking capabilities? I was just about to post a question for help on why this was advertised and we had not been able to get our DirecTiVo's networked..


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

BrandonSi said:


> Is this the update that promised networking capabilities? I was just about to post a question for help on why this was advertised and we had not been able to get our DirecTiVo's networked..


There has never been any update planned to allow networking on the DirecTivo's.

The press release from last year said that online scheduling was the big thing and a couple Tivo features from the stand alones.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Correct. DirecTV's online scheduling feature does not require networking and there will be no supported networking for the DTiVos. The "deleted items" folder will also be added.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

Will the scheduler info be sent over the sat signal or thru the phone line? I'm guessing sat signal.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

It is sent via sat on the DVR+ units... so pretty sure it will be via SAT for the TiVo's as well.


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