# The Next Tivo Software Update (2010)



## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

Does anyone know if a Tivo software update is coming anytime soon? I have an original Series 3 with 11d. I know the beta testers can't reveal details and such, but can someone give me a yes or no and some idea of when the next update might be?

I'm just looking for a few fixes involving the Tuning Adapter/SDV issues. I've got to have that great Tivo reliability restored. Presently, there are still regular dropped programs and I can't rely on the Tivo like I used to.

Just got a letter from Time Warner that on February 15, 2010, twenty-eight additional channels will become SDV channels. Fifteen of these 28 are HD channels. I'm sure it will generate a lot more problems with the Tivo and Tuning Adapter.

So... what's the news... if any?

Should I write any letters to Tivo or Time Warner? Seems like just a little error checking fix for the tuning adapter or the Tivo software would address my concerns.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

dcstager said:


> Does anyone know if a Tivo software update is coming anytime soon? I have an original Series 3 with 11d. I know the beta testers can't reveal details and such, but can someone give me a yes or no and some idea of when the next update might be?


You know the beta testers can't tell you anything - not even that they have beta software. You know TiVo isn't saying anything. There's nobody left with any credibility.

You have to assume that there are no new fixes coming until we get them.



> Should I write any letters to Tivo or Time Warner?


TiVo. You bought the product from them and it's not working for you. You're paying them (or prepaid if you're on lifetime) for support. Open up a support ticket and if you're not happy with the response, escalate and write letters if necessary telling them that you're no longer a satisfied customer. Be firm, polite, and tell them exactly what they can do to make you satisfied again.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

IIR&#37;C there usually is a spring update and a fall update.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

JWThiers said:


> IIR%C there usually is a spring update and a fall update.


What they did in the past is no indication of what they're going to do in the future. Kind of like the stock market :-(


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

JWThiers said:


> IIR%C there usually is a spring update and a fall update.


Keyword - "Usually". There has been no update for the S3 series since November or December 2008. And the serious bugs continue unfixed and ignored.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Most likely ignored. TiVo never supports their products. Ever.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I'd like to think that the S2 to S3 with TA glitch is high on their list, but you never know.

Diane


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Keyword - "Usually". There has been no update for the S3 series since November or December 2008. And the serious bugs continue unfixed and ignored.


Wrong and misleading folks yet again, Roy. The last update for the S3 was May, 2009.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

CrispyCritter said:


> Wrong and misleading folks yet again, Roy.


Do you really expect any better from Roy, at this point?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> Wrong and misleading folks yet again, Roy. The last update for the S3 was May, 2009.


I stand corrected. 
The last update was May, 2009. I remember now cringing when it released and being nervous that it would break the fix that 11.0b contained of a bug introduced by 11.0 that kept my TiVoHD from working AT ALL with a cable card for the first 4 months I owned it.

It did nothing to fix the major issue that still persists to this day, however -- the gray screen debacle.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> Do you really expect any better from Roy, at this point?


I'm sorry if it bothers you, my friend, that I expect the products I pay for to work the way they are advertised to work and complain loudly and frequently when they don't. But that's the way it is and the way it will continue to be until the problems are fixed and my TiVoHD can be relied upon to record the programs it's programmed to record more than just most of the time.


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## jadziedzic (Apr 20, 2009)

RoyK said:


> I expect the products I pay for to work the way they are advertised to work and complain loudly and frequently when they don't.


Do you really think your complaining *in this forum* will have any real effect on whether or not TiVo choses to fix the problem(s) that you're encountering? Why not direct your complaints to TiVo directly?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

jadziedzic said:


> Do you really think your complaining *in this forum* will have any real effect on whether or not TiVo choses to fix the problem(s) that you're encountering? Why not direct your complaints to TiVo directly?


 Also if you haven't already I would try and use this unfixed problem as a means to either get a discount for the service on that unit or a means to get out of a service contract for the non-functioning unit. If you have lifetime then you are SOL since lifetime basically means a commitment you made to put up with any existing and future issues that may come up (one reason I don't like lifetime option for TiVos).
i.e. Bottom line if it is causing so much grief then I would do my best to dump the unit and associated ongoing costs for it.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jadziedzic said:


> Do you really think your complaining *in this forum* will have any real effect on whether or not TiVo choses to fix the problem(s) that you're encountering? Why not direct your complaints to TiVo directly?


I have directed my complaints to TiVo directly and will continue to do so.

As to whether complaining in this forum will have any real effect I don't know. But I do know that the squeaky wheel is more likely to get greased. Keeping silent likely will cause the problem to be swept (further) under the rug.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

moyekj said:


> ...
> i.e. Bottom line if it is causing so much grief then I would do my best to dump the unit and associated ongoing costs for it.


I'm sure TiVo would love for me to do just that and go away quietly. I refuse to do so. I bought the product for a reason and expect no more of it than for it to perform as advertised -- that is it is a video recorder specified to be able to record analog and digital programming. I expect it to be able to do just that - no more - *no less*. And not just most of the time.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

The problem is that your personal expectations are not defensible in view of the all the information that TiVo makes available, specifically the fact that the utility of the device may be limited by external factors. Your repetitious refusal to acknowledge the reality of the customer-supplier covenant makes it necessary for folks to correct you at every turn, so that casual readers are less likely to be misled by your misguided rhetoric into adopting the same unfounded expectations.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> The problem is that your personal expectations are not defensible in view of the all the information that TiVo makes available, specifically the fact that the utility of the device may be limited by external factors. Your repetitious refusal to acknowledge the reality of the customer-supplier covenant makes it necessary for folks to correct you at every turn, so that casual readers are less likely to be misled by your misguided rhetoric into adopting the same unfounded expectations.


Sorry again, my friend, but I insist that my expectation that the TiVoHD be able to record analog signals without frequently missing recordings due to a software error is NOT unfounded - despite your rhetoric to the contrary.

Expecting a product to work is neither unfounded nor unreasonable.

If the casual reader (or prospective purchaser) gleans from my postings that TiVoHD doesn't work as specified at all times on all cable systems, that the problem is due to a software bug, that TiVo has been aware of the bug for more than a year and has not fixed it then so be it. He SHOULD to be aware of it before parting with his cash and playing roulette whether his new device will work for him and -- if it happens not to -- whether to expect his problem to be resolved.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Sorry again, my friend, but I insist that my expectation that the TiVoHD be able to record analog signals without frequently missing recordings due to a software error is NOT unfounded - despite your rhetoric to the contrary.
> 
> Expecting a product to work is neither unfounded nor unreasonable.


Expecting no bugs is unreasonable.
Expecting your particular bug to be fixed before the next major round of bug fixes is unreasonable, as has been stated to you many times.

But you know all this, and just seem to enjoy inflicting pain on us.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> ...But you know all this, and just seem to enjoy inflicting pain on us.


Not if he's on your ignore list....and he just made it to mine


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

CrispyCritter said:


> Expecting no bugs is unreasonable.
> Expecting your particular bug to be fixed before the next major round of bug fixes is unreasonable, as has been stated to you many times.
> 
> But you know all this, and just seem to enjoy inflicting pain on us.


One more time - EXPECTING A BUG THAT PREVENTS A DIGITAL VIDEO RECORDER FROM RECORDING TO BE FIXED IN LESS THAN A YEAR IS *NOT UNREASONABLE*


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I was hoping some beta tester would create a bogus username here and post a yes or no about any upcoming updates. We're getting far afield in this discussion.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> One more time - EXPECTING A BUG THAT PREVENTS A DIGITAL VIDEO RECORDER FROM RECORDING TO BE FIXED IN LESS THAN A YEAR IS *NOT UNREASONABLE*


you jumped the shark though when you turned troll in the CES 2010 thread and crapped all over it with your whiney posts. Expecting everyone to be patient with you as you UNREASONABLY post everywhere about your problem and always with misinformation that needs correcting time and again is UNREASONABLE.
You are turning your legitimate complaint into an over exposed circus of errors and letting the messenger overshadow the message. Take a breath and think it through.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

dcstager said:


> I was hoping some beta tester would create a bogus username here and post a yes or no about any upcoming updates. We're getting far afield in this discussion.


well when you start with an expectation of someone doing something dishonorable where do you expect it to lead to?

I ma going to use the tool I really like here - ignore thread.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> you jumped the shark though when you turned troll in the CES 2010 thread and crapped all over it with your whiney posts. Expecting everyone to be patient with you as you UNREASONABLY post everywhere about your problem and always with misinformation that needs correcting time and again is UNREASONABLE.
> You are turning your legitimate complaint into an over exposed circus of errors and letting the messenger overshadow the message. Take a breath and think it through.


I'm not holding my breath. I'd have turned blue long ago if I didn't breathe until the bug was fixed.


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## schwinn (Sep 18, 2004)

RoyK said:


> One more time - EXPECTING A BUG THAT PREVENTS A DIGITAL VIDEO RECORDER FROM RECORDING TO BE FIXED IN LESS THAN A YEAR IS *NOT UNREASONABLE*


I have to ask, why do people think his problem/expectations are unreasonable?

I have to agree with him - when the product isn't working as designed/intended, then there is a problem. He has every right to complain about it.

The fact that he's complaining here shouldn't be discouraged... this is the main forum for Tivo. He stated he complained to them directly, and he's also complaining here. So what? He's not asking for something unreasonable... and so far, Tivo has not resolved or fixed his problem, for over a year (if not longer)... what's everyone's problem with that?

If I were experiencing this problem, I would also be complaining... fortunately (knock on wood) I am not since many of my channels are digital/HD now...


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

schwinn said:


> I have to ask, why do people think his problem/expectations are unreasonable?


Because they often do not reflect a full appreciation and respect for the reality of what is offered/promised, but rather are often reflections of wishful thinking, personal preference, and personal avarice.



schwinn said:


> I have to agree with him - when the product isn't working as designed/intended, then there is a problem.


No one would disagree with that. What some folks believe, though, is that they get to determine what a product they purchase was designed/intended for, down to every last detail, when the reality is that the manufacturer determines all that, and specifies the entirety of what is reasonable to expect. By contrast, responsible consumers exercise their discretion, either accepting what is offered, how it is offered, or declining the offer and doing without. That first group of folks go down a completely indefensible path, of accepting the offer, but essentially (in their own minds) unilaterally changing the terms and conditions of the sales agreement.



schwinn said:


> He has every right to complain about it.


And other folks have every right to highlight every bit of the lack of merit in those complaints.



schwinn said:


> The fact that he's complaining here shouldn't be discouraged... this is the main forum for Tivo.


Quite frankly, I cannot take a stand with regard to what you've said here. As long as you acknowledge that other folks have every right to highlight every bit of the lack of merit in those complaints, then I think there is a basis for supporting what you're saying here. However, other folks may want this forum to be "more signal, less noise" -- in other words, they believe that there is an obligation on the part of posters to ensure that the complaints they raise are significant, reasonable, and defensible. I see their point as well. And again, I really don't care either way. They only perspective that cannot prevail is the idea that complainers deserve an _unrebutted_ soap-box for their complaints.


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## ilkevinli (Jan 6, 2001)

I also agree with him. I don't have that issue but it sounds like a serious issue. Not having a fix for in over a year seems crazy to me.



schwinn said:


> I have to ask, why do people think his problem/expectations are unreasonable?
> 
> I have to agree with him - when the product isn't working as designed/intended, then there is a problem. He has every right to complain about it.
> 
> ...


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

schwinn said:


> ...The fact that he's complaining here shouldn't be discouraged... this is the main forum for Tivo...


Incorrect. 








This site is not part of TiVo, Inc.
This site is not part of TiVo, Inc.
This site is not part of TiVo, Inc.

This is the main forum for TiVo _users_. There is NO GREASE to be had from this forum.

I would consider this to be the main forum for TiVo (support): http://forums.tivo.com. Note the tivo.com in the address.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

bicker said:


> No one would disagree with that. What some folks believe, though, is that they get to determine what a product they purchase was designed/intended for, down to every last detail, when the reality is that the manufacturer determines all that, and specifies the entirety of what is reasonable to expect. By contrast, responsible consumers exercise their discretion, either accepting what is offered, how it is offered, or declining the offer and doing without. That first group of folks go down a completely indefensible path, of accepting the offer, but essentially (in their own minds) unilaterally changing the terms and conditions of the sales agreement.
> .


I'm not sure what issue Roy is having, and I'm not going to take the time to read his posts. There is a grey screen issue with analog channels in some cable systems. The ability to view and record analog channels is a reasonable expectation. It's possible fixing this issue is becoming a lower priority, as an increasing number of cable systems are switching to 100% digital.

I think it's reasonable for customers in that situation to request a (partial) refund from tivo, even if the customer is long past the 30 day window.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

bicker said:


> ....
> 
> And other folks have every right to highlight every bit of the lack of merit in those complaints.
> 
> ...


Highlight away. The reader can decide for himself whether or not complaints that a digital recorder frequently doesn't record have merit.

(Although I would submit that anyone who protests that they do not have merit has a very strange thought process indeed...)


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

I think at this point it is understood that Tivo will just wait out this grey screen issue with analog input, instead of fixing it. I had the same grey screen issue myself, and the very unusable TivoHD because of it. Thankfully, my cable company going fully digital has fixed that issue with the TivoHD but sadly, to add insult to injury, going digital has killed my Series 2 (now single tuner and rarely changes channels on box correctly, etc). So now I gotta replace my frustratingly useless Series 2. I guess with Tivo and DVR's in general, it's always you win some you lose some.

So correct me if I am wrong, but to my understanding, the current wisdom is, if your analog, stick with series 2.. if your digital, you need an HD. Anything different, and your likely gonna have issues. Personally, I just think Tivo should be doing more to explain this.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

bicker said:


> The problem is that your personal expectations are not defensible in view of the all the information that TiVo makes available, specifically the fact that the utility of the device may be limited by external factors. Your repetitious refusal to acknowledge the reality of the customer-supplier covenant makes it necessary for folks to correct you at every turn, so that casual readers are less likely to be misled by your misguided rhetoric into adopting the same unfounded expectations.


sorry.

Express warranty


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

lew said:


> I'm not sure what issue Roy is having, and I'm not going to take the time to read his posts. There is a grey screen issue with analog channels in some cable systems. The ability to view and record analog channels is a reasonable expectation. It's possible fixing this issue is becoming a lower priority, as an increasing number of cable systems are switching to 100% digital.


I'm having this issue too and consider a fix for it to be a reasonable request. The frustrating part is that it's been an issue for more than a year now with no resolution in sight.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RoyK said:


> (Although I would submit that anyone who protests that they do not have merit has a very strange thought process indeed...)


Which is really often part of the problem: The refusal to accept that there are reasonable perspectives other than the one that criticizes what the curmudgeon doesn't like.



Videodrome said:


> Express warranty


Good luck trying to make that case, based on the vacuous foundation that many complaints posted here typically have.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

bschuler2007 said:


> I think at this point it is understood that Tivo will just wait out this grey screen issue with analog input, instead of fixing it. ........


That's the way it looks to me too, and I suspect the same goes for the TA problems many TWC customers are having, as well as the pixelation on SDV channels that many TWC customers are seeing (which has definitely been shown to occur ONLY on TiVo's, not on TWC receivers).



bschuler2007 said:


> ......................... Personally, I just think Tivo should be doing more to explain this.


That would be nice, I agree. However, if they have decided to put little or no effort into fixing these problems, there is nothing they can say that will make sufferers feel better. Given the silence, I suspect that must be the case.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

bicker said:


> Which is really often part of the problem: The refusal to accept that there are reasonable perspectives other than the one that criticizes what the curmudgeon doesn't like.
> 
> Good luck trying to make that case, based on the vacuous foundation that many complaints posted here typically have.


Thankyou for proving to me , you dont have a clue.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)




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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

bicker said:


> Because they often do not reflect a full appreciation and respect for the reality of what is offered/promised, but rather are often reflections of wishful thinking, personal preference, and personal avarice.
> 
> No one would disagree with that. What some folks believe, though, is that they get to determine what a product they purchase was designed/intended for, down to every last detail, when the reality is that the manufacturer determines all that, and specifies the entirety of what is reasonable to expect. By contrast, responsible consumers exercise their discretion, either accepting what is offered, how it is offered, or declining the offer and doing without. That first group of folks go down a completely indefensible path, of accepting the offer, but essentially (in their own minds) unilaterally changing the terms and conditions of the sales agreement.


I have to disagree here in that in that it is not unusual for companies to go down the road of whats cheaper: fix a problem affecting a few or ignore it and accept the fallout.

A lot of companies will say that version of the software is no longer supported and you must upgrade to the latest. We can come up with lots of scenarios but the bottom line is the problem may very well be real but they just don't want to spend the resources on it. Some time it works the other way and they send out a newer replacement unit so as not to fix software in an older architecture.

The bottom line is It's pretty rare for a company to say what exactly it is that there product is designed for (and as a result what they support) and what it is not. It is not unusual for them to say "we don't support that use".

I deal with this all the time in a corporate environment.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

zalusky said:


> A lot of companies will say that version of the software is no longer supported and you must upgrade to the latest.


There is nothing wrong with that.



zalusky said:


> We can come up with lots of scenarios but the bottom line is the problem may very well be real but they just don't want to spend the resources on it.


And not obligated to do so. Yes. I agree.



zalusky said:


> The bottom line is It's pretty rare for a company to say what exactly it is that there product is designed for (and as a result what they support) and what it is not. It is not unusual for them to say "we don't support that use".


No, sorry; that doesn't hold water. What a company says is ostensibly "exactly [what] their product is designed for", and nothing else is.



zalusky said:


> I deal with this all the time in a corporate environment.


I deal with this all the time in a B2B environment.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

Is it me or is tivo one of the few consumer electronic hardware devices that people actually expect and almost demand that the manufacturer actually post fixes for on a regular basis.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

JWThiers said:


> Is it me or is tivo one of the few consumer electronic hardware devices that people actually expect and almost demand that the manufacturer actually post fixes for on a regular basis.


Well, it is one of the few consumer electronic hardware devices that you continue to pay a service fee for. But even without the additional services fees that TiVo benefits from, many other devices (computers, Blu-Ray players, GPS, etc.) receive updates in both software and firmware. These not only include bug fixes, but enhanced features as well.

TiVo used to do this as well, but now seem more interested on having their engineers popup more ads, sell us pizza, and implement (badly I might add) other fluff that has nothing to do with what a DVR does.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

solutionsetc said:


> Well, it is one of the few consumer electronic hardware devices that you continue to pay a service fee for. But even without the additional services fees that TiVo benefits from, many other devices (computers, Blu-Ray players, GPS, etc.) receive updates in both software and firmware. These not only include bug fixes, but enhanced features as well.
> 
> TiVo used to do this as well, but now seem more interested on having their engineers popup more ads, sell us pizza, and implement (badly I might add) other fluff that has nothing to do with what a DVR does.


Really I'm talking* REGULAR* updates not 1 or 2 bios updates during the life of a motherboard or GPS firmware once every 2 or 3 years. Or Bluray updating the copy protection on an irregular basis. I'm talking updates on a regular schedule. I guess MS doing monthly security updates to the OS is pretty close to regular updates. Anything else? GPS does update the maps regularly but they are definitely NOT free.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

I have a variety of Apple hardware which has seen numerous software and firmware updates over the years (too many to count in fact), most bringing a lot more to the table than bug fixes, especially with the iPhone. My golf GPS usually sees course updates once to twice a year; all this for a 30 dollar annual subscription.

I just don't see TiVo standing out in this regard.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

solutionsetc said:


> I have a variety of Apple hardware which has seen numerous software and firmware updates over the years (too many to count in fact), most bringing a lot more to the table than bug fixes, especially with the iPhone. My golf GPS usually sees course updates once to twice a year; all this for a 30 dollar annual subscription.
> 
> I just don't see TiVo standing out in this regard.


I don't see a ton of updates (let alone updates on a regular basis) for things like TV's or AV receivers, *most *cell phones (some newer smartphones being the exception there) or the majority of other CE devices. Yes you can find exceptions but the vast majority of CE devices NEVER get patched after it is manufactured (heck most can't get patched easily) and of the ones that do get updates they really aren't on any kind of regular basis. My point is that there aren't a whole lot of things that get bug fixes or feature upgrades at all let alone on a regular basis. and we are in a thread complaining that Tivo isn't fixing a bug that that only affects a relatively small number of users fast enough (if at all. IMO their line of thinking is that most Cable Companies are going all digital so the market will fix the problem for no investment on their part). I'm sorry if you are affected, but that is what I think is happening in that one instance.

If you think different fine, I just don't see the *regular *updates in much besides computers and Tivo.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I think we are in a convergence mode from firmware devices to smart devices. The smart devices of which I consider one definitely get more updates.

We are seeing Netflix, Youtube, and many other applications being built into Players, and TVs let alone truly smart devices. This will require regular updates.

The iPhone has proved how applications really sell the device and I can easily see that in a set top box.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

JWThiers said:


> If you think different fine, I just don't see the *regular *updates in much besides computers and Tivo.


TiVo is a computer. And one that requires payment for the service it delivers as well. And while I am not affected by the analog bug, I am affect by several others that have gone unfixed as well.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

Because I pay $12.95 a month, I expect service and help from TiVo. I expect them to handle updating and taking care of the software side of my unit, all at no additional cost to me. It is a computer, and though this may not be the actual case or in the service agreement with TiVo, I expect them to take care of all the guide date, updating, and keeping additional software features working - and free to add.

When I have issues with my Media Center PC and storage, I am essentially on my own (and I do have a raid issue right now  ). My TiVo requires less interaction on my part to keep running, and certainly a lot less brain power to operate and maintain. In my mind, I pay $12.95 a month so someone else maintains and updates this media player device. Though I do wish it did a few more things like a regular computer or at least worked better as a media extender for pulling digital content I have stored on the network.

I have spent a lot of money on PC hardware and software and storage over the years, and have had to figure out a lot on my own and fix my own issues. TiVo takes care of a lot of these issues for me and I trust the TiVo more then the PC when it comes to 'just working' and doing what I expect it to do. Nearly every time.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

solutionsetc said:


> TiVo is a computer. And one that requires payment for the service it delivers as well. And while I am not affected by the analog bug, I am affect by several others that have gone unfixed as well.





daveak said:


> Because I pay $12.95 a month, I expect service and help from TiVo. I expect them to handle updating and taking care of the software side of my unit, all at no additional cost to me. It is a computer, and though this may not be the actual case or in the service agreement with TiVo, I expect them to take care of all the guide date, updating, and keeping additional software features working - and free to add.
> 
> When I have issues with my Media Center PC and storage, I am essentially on my own (and I do have a raid issue right now  ). My TiVo requires less interaction on my part to keep running, and certainly a lot less brain power to operate and maintain. In my mind, I pay $12.95 a month so someone else maintains and updates this media player device. Though I do wish it did a few more things like a regular computer or at least worked better as a media extender for pulling digital content I have stored on the network.
> 
> I have spent a lot of money on PC hardware and software and storage over the years, and have had to figure out a lot on my own and fix my own issues. TiVo takes care of a lot of these issues for me and I trust the TiVo more then the PC when it comes to 'just working' and doing what I expect it to do. Nearly every time.


Which brings me back to my original statement.



JWThiers said:


> Is it me or is tivo one of the few consumer electronic hardware devices that people actually expect and almost demand that the manufacturer actually post fixes for on a regular basis.


Modified slightly now to be "Is it me or are computers one of the few consumer electronic hardware devices that people actually expect and almost demand that the manufacturer actually post fixes for on a regular basis." Not trying to say that tivo shouldn't be updated. More like Computers (And I'll include "Smart devices" that Zalusky referred to) seem to be the only devices to need periodic update.


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## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

JWThiers said:


> Which brings me back to my original statement.
> 
> Modified slightly now to be "Is it me or are computers one of the few consumer electronic hardware devices that people actually expect and almost demand that the manufacturer actually post fixes for on a regular basis." Not trying to say that tivo shouldn't be updated. More like Computers (And I'll include "Smart devices" that Zalusky referred to) seem to be the only devices to need periodic update.


I think the largest common denominator here is software. You write software; you create bugs. The more complicated the software the more bugs.

It is rare for any developer to put the same kind of resources into QA as they do engineering. And it is rare for companies to postpone a ship date because all known bugs are not fixed (although some do). So they test most for the show stoppers (data loss, crashes, and major features broken). Many other issues will be assigned a deferred status. The very nature of this is the thinking "we'll fix them in the next release". Some may be so obscure; and have a viable workaround, that they are way down on the list.

But unless a company has the resources and commitment to ship with zero known defects, they have an obligation to fix known issues down the road, and even unknown ones that may present themselves if they are severe enough.

The same pretty much goes for features. We've all seen that mysterious port that does nothing now; labeled "For Future Expansion"; although far too many of these never do anything.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

JWThiers said:


> Which brings me back to my original statement.
> 
> Modified slightly now to be "Is it me or are computers one of the few consumer electronic hardware devices that people actually expect and almost demand that the manufacturer actually post fixes for on a regular basis." Not trying to say that tivo shouldn't be updated. More like Computers (And I'll include "Smart devices" that Zalusky referred to) seem to be the only devices to need periodic update.


I just do not expect to be on my own when dealing with software issues and updates when I am paying money for a service. One can make the argument that Windows updates are included in the cost of the software, but if my computer crashes I am most certainly on my own. Of course, that may be the same with TiVo if a unit crashes due to an update. Though I only have had a TiVo for a year know, it has only frozen once during a NetFlix movie (I reset my router during the movie - what was I thinking?) and it froze once during the playback of a program. The TiVo is more reliable and stable than my media PC, at least over the last 12 month period.

What if TiVo software was like Windows? What if every couple of years you needed to buy new TiVo software to keep up with new features, and then find out your hardware is not sufficient to perform with it? What if it was only as reliable as a Windows PC? You know every 3-5 years $1-2000 for a new computer and software so you can keep running new programs? Not to mention the cost of extra hardware and software so you can get comparable picture and sound from your PC?

Now matter what anyone says, at least for me, TiVo makes it easy to view programming on my schedule. And it works well in my HT setup...

Though, I must confess, there are some very quiet and small Media Center PCs on the market now...


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## Jestered (Nov 25, 2008)

It really blows my mind how some people can actually make a statement that it's unreasonable to expect a TiVo DVR to tune and/or record TV shows. Does that mean if I buy a new car and I expect it to start every time I need to go somewhere, that it's unreasonable to think that way? It's apparent to me that these people are annoyed with the other and have taken on an extremely flawed argument just because they are annoyed with this person. This really makes you look silly. The root functions of a DVR are to view and record tv shows. If that doesn't work, it's not unreasonable to expect a fix in a timely manner.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Jestered said:


> Does that mean if I buy a new car and I expect it to start every time I need to go somewhere, that it's unreasonable to think that way?


Up until this year I would have agreed with you. However, in light of recent news events you should *not* expect your new car to accelerate or brake properly. Nor should you expect the airbags to deploy properly. YMMV.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

dcstager said:


> Does anyone know if a Tivo software update is coming anytime soon? I have an original Series 3 with 11d. I know the beta testers can't reveal details and such, but can someone give me a yes or no and some idea of when the next update might be?
> 
> I'm just looking for a few fixes involving the Tuning Adapter/SDV issues. I've got to have that great Tivo reliability restored. Presently, there are still regular dropped programs and I can't rely on the Tivo like I used to.
> 
> ...


From Engadget.com

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/new-ui-tweaked-hardware-in-store-for-tivos-march-reveal/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/tivo-has-something-to-announce-march-2-in-nyc/

TGC


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I'm sure the enhancements we'll be getting on the standalone boxes are a spin off of development for the DirectHD Tivo satellite DVR project. I'm pretty sure the DirectHD is going to bring a lot of new customers over to Satellite. DirectTV's stock took a nice big jump yesterday so I think there is something in the works -- most likely the project is no longer vaporware and people have seen it and used it and are blown away.

Tivo deserves the success. They built the better mouse trap. The DirectHD is going to be a major success. Everyone here is waiting for it, right? I'm going to buy one and I hope to be one of the first to report here about using it.


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## keyzone72 (Oct 15, 2007)

> Does anyone know if a Tivo software update is coming anytime soon? I have an original Series 3 with 11d. I know the beta testers can't reveal details and such, but can someone give me a yes or no and some idea of when the next update might be?









If you _*click here*_, you can read what is _speculated _to be announced.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

...but are they trying to imply that our current THD's will get these "fixes"?


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

MPSAN said:


> ...but are they trying to imply that our current THD's will get these "fixes"?


I would like to think they are. But we should all know by now through experiances in our past that this may or may not be so.

TGC


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

(Checking my S1. Uh, no recent fixes applied. :whistling: )


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I've still got a working S1 with every possible hack and upgrade. I'd sure like to get just one more upgrade to fix the bugs and button up that particular version. It's still darn useful although relegated to the guest bedroom with a 27" Sony Trinitron.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

dcstager said:


> I've still got a working S1 with every possible hack and upgrade. I'd sure like to get just one more upgrade to fix the bugs and button up that particular version. It's still darn useful although relegated to the guest bedroom with a 27" Sony Trinitron.


A Series 1 upgrade won't ever happen. There was a major blunder at TiVo a few years back and they lost the ability to create any version of the TiVo 1 main software. All they can do is tweak around the edges with shell scripts (eg, daylight savings time hack.)


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

bschuler2007 said:


> I think at this point it is understood that Tivo will just wait out this grey screen issue with analog input, instead of fixing it. I had the same grey screen issue myself, and the very unusable TivoHD because of it. Thankfully, my cable company going fully digital has fixed that issue with the TivoHD but sadly, to add insult to injury, going digital has killed my Series 2 (now single tuner and rarely changes channels on box correctly, etc). So now I gotta replace my frustratingly useless Series 2. I guess with Tivo and DVR's in general, it's always you win some you lose some.
> 
> So correct me if I am wrong, but to my understanding, the current wisdom is, if your analog, stick with series 2.. if your digital, you need an HD. Anything different, and your likely gonna have issues. Personally, I just think Tivo should be doing more to explain this.


Everything is going digital. Get used to it. By 2012-2013, Maybe even sooner. Analog Cable TV service will be history. Gone the way of OTA analog.

TGC


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

JWThiers said:


> IIR%C there usually is a spring update and a fall update.


Was there a fall update?


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Was there a fall update?


Nope... An earlier post indicated that Spring 2009 was the last one. Its been so long that I just dont remember.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

I'd be willing to wager we will get a nice refresh after the beginning of March - after or on March 2nd.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

daveak said:


> I'd be willing to wager we will get a nice refresh after the beginning of March - after or on March 2nd.


I hope you are right....


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

daveak said:


> I'd be willing to wager we will get a nice refresh after the beginning of March - after or on March 2nd.


March 2nd is when they make the announcement.

I would be willing to bet, it will be end of March or beggining of April before our TiVo's get the Spring 2010 update. Maybe even as late as May. But if I were to place money on it. I would say beggining of April.

TGC


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> A Series 1 upgrade won't ever happen. There was a major blunder at TiVo a few years back and they lost the ability to create any version of the TiVo 1 main software. All they can do is tweak around the edges with shell scripts (eg, daylight savings time hack.)


That's not surprising. Losing a codebase happens a lot, at many companies.

Still, there are many good, conscientious, hard working people available for employment. So why can't TiVo (or any other company) say, once in a while: *You're fired! You're too f***ing stupid to work here!*

After all, there is such a thing as "best practices".


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> So why can't TiVo (or any other company) say, once in a while: *You're fired! You're too f***ing stupid to work here!*


Maybe because Donald Trump isn't the CEO of TiVo, and apparently he is the only one that ever says "You're Fired!".

You think the CEO's of banks & Automotive companies would have heard that phrase too, but obviously they didn't. They got the bailout and the CEO's still got their bonus's and are still working!

TGC


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Who said the problems at America's banks had anything to do with what one employee did? What a ridiculous assumption. The vast majority of "blunders" in business are not negligent errors made by a single person, but rather are simply the result of good people operating in accordance with an imperfect system, which itself is often a reflection of even broader drivers. Sometimes, even, (and I know that a lot of people are incapable of accepting this) bad things happen even when everything was done correctly _vis a vis _the best available knowledge and experience available. The point is that the real cancer on America isn't incompetent people doing an incompetent job, but rather is self-entitled people assuming that everything that goes wrong must necessarily be someone else's fault.


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## cjv2 (Dec 16, 2009)

A bank blew out some TiVo software? Awesome.


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> Was there a fall update?


I did say USUALLY (NOT always)


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

bicker said:


> Who said the problems at America's banks had anything to do with what one employee did? What a ridiculous assumption. The vast majority of "blunders" in business are not negligent errors made by a single person, but rather are simply the result of good people operating in accordance with an imperfect system, which itself is often a reflection of even broader drivers. Sometimes, even, (and I know that a lot of people are incapable of accepting this) bad things happen even when everything was done correctly _vis a vis _the best available knowledge and experience available. The point is that the real cancer on America isn't incompetent people doing an incompetent job, but rather is self-entitled people assuming that everything that goes wrong must necessarily be someone else's fault.


Are you saying if you can take responsibility for the good and get multi million dollar performance bonuses, you can absolve yourself of responsibility for the bad and still get multi million dollar performance bonuses? You are right, Sometimes **it just happens thru no fault of anything other than the environment, but if you are the one taking the credit for the good you also have to take credit for the bad. In a company the buck stops with the CEO, ultimately he is responsible for all of the good and all of the bad. The possibility of failure and its consequences should be what is driving them to make sound decisions with reasonable risk. That's why he gets paid the big bucks. If the CEO's and other top officials don't like the downside then maybe they shouldn't be in that position.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I doubt that the CEO is the one employee alluded to above, who "lost the codebase".


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## djliquidice (Dec 4, 2002)

I really hope they fix the 1.26tb barrier. :-\


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

bicker said:


> Who said the problems at America's banks had anything to do with what one employee did? What a ridiculous assumption. The vast majority of "blunders" in business are not negligent errors made by a single person, but rather are simply the result of good people operating in accordance with an imperfect system, which itself is often a reflection of even broader drivers. Sometimes, even, (and I know that a lot of people are incapable of accepting this) bad things happen even when everything was done correctly _vis a vis _the best available knowledge and experience available. The point is that the real cancer on America isn't incompetent people doing an incompetent job, but rather is self-entitled people assuming that everything that goes wrong must necessarily be someone else's fault.


I can not believe that I find myself agreeing with Bicker. God help us all.


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## bschuler2007 (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm still crossing my fingers for an April 1st update.. how fitting would that be?


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

bschuler2007 said:


> I'm still crossing my fingers for an April 1st update.. how fitting would that be?


Hopefully not fitting at all, I still use TiVo.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

bschuler2007 said:


> I'm still crossing my fingers for an April 1st update.. how fitting would that be?


Yup. This new update will be the BEST EVAR!!

APRIL FOOLS!!! 

I hope Tivo proves me wrong.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

mchief said:


> I can not believe that I find myself agreeing with Bicker. God help us all.


I'm incredibly intelligent.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

bicker said:


> Who said the problems at America's banks had anything to do with what one employee did? What a ridiculous assumption. The vast majority of "blunders" in business are not negligent errors made by a single person, but rather are simply the result of good people operating in accordance with an imperfect system, which itself is often a reflection of even broader drivers. Sometimes, even, (and I know that a lot of people are incapable of accepting this) bad things happen even when everything was done correctly _vis a vis _the best available knowledge and experience available. The point is that the real cancer on America isn't incompetent people doing an incompetent job, but rather is self-entitled people assuming that everything that goes wrong must necessarily be someone else's fault.


You missed the point of my joke.

Donald Trump... being the only one who ever says "your Fired". Donald Trump is a CEO among other things.

Not that banks or CEO's have anything to do with it. Although CEO's can fire people. The joke being that the only CEO that seems to fire people is Donald Trump.

TGC


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

JWThiers said:


> I did say USUALLY (NOT always)


Actually, I thought I might have missed it.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> That's not surprising. Losing a codebase happens a lot, at many companies.
> 
> Still, there are many good, conscientious, hard working people available for employment. So why can't TiVo (or any other company) say, once in a while: *You're fired! You're too f***ing stupid to work here!*
> 
> After all, there is such a thing as "best practices".


When I was writing sales force automation software for furniture companies (circa 95-99) it was obvious that the IT folks were not the brightest folk on the planet, but the CEO's knew nothing about computers and were just fed stories by the IT folks when something went wrong. Guess what? It was always my fault even if nothing had been changed. I spent two days looking for a problem that it turned out was never reported as a problem, but I was told it was. When I complained about wasting my time, they got mad at me! CEOS are generally clueless about technology.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

How about this for a CEO story. When I was working in IT for a Fortune 50 company about 20 years ago I was questioning why none of the secretaries for the executives even had Word Prcessors let alone computers. The CEO stated that he didn't want any of those DOODADS on the executive floor.

About three years later I was asked to make a presentation to the Executive Committee about the value of personal computers for executives. I stressed the connectivity value and called them Distributors Of Organized Data Assisting Decision Support (DOODADS). The computers and networks were installed three months later.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

jrm01 said:


> How about this for a CEO story. When I was working in IT for a Fortune 50 company about 20 years ago I was questioning why none of the secretaries for the executives even had Word Prcessors let alone computers. The CEO stated that he didn't want any of those DOODADS on the executive floor.
> 
> About three years later I was asked to make a presentation to the Executive Committee about the value of personal computers for executives. I stressed the connectivity value and called them Distributors Of Organized Data Assisting Decision Support (DOODADS). The computers and netowrks were installed three months later.


During my time in a fortune 500 company,  computers for executives were justified by eliminating Admin positions and making the Exec write his own memos. By the time I left only the old farts and well placed Execs still had Admins. Everyone else either had a shared resource to do their scheduling or they handled everything themselves. A couple wanted voice recognition software so they could use the computer for dictation. I believe they were using Dragon 4.0 on Windows 95. So imagine a technophobe executive that's afraid of a computer using it for voice recognition. It was hilarious how big a fail these guys were, but sad that most were making over a mil a year and couldn't use even basic computer software.


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