# First show to get pulled / First show to get a full pick up



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I wanted to do a poll here but since it limits you 10 choices I'm skipping it.

The new fall season is finally upon us and one of the fun things about it is seeing which new show will get yanked off the air first and which will be first to get a full-season pick up. Should be fun to see who's right. Make your picks and share your reasons.

The nominees are:

*Comedies:*
Mike and Molly
Raising Hope
Running Wilde
Better With You
Outsourced
**** My Dad Says

*Hour-Long's*
Hawaii Five-0
Lone Star
The Event
Chase
No Ordinary Family
Detroit 187
The Whole Truth
The Defenders
Hellcats
Undercovers
Law and Order: LA
My Generation 
Nikita
Secret Millionaire
Body of Proof
Blue Bloods
Outlaw


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Which ones are on FOX or NBC? Those are the ones that are most likely to live the short life


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I think *Outsourced *is more of less guaranteed to get pulled within three episodes max. Not only is the preview I saw horrifically not funny, but it seems to have universal negativity surrounding it from reviewers and TV fans. A close rival for first cancellation is *Mike and Molly*. Might win over audiences looking for a feel-good type show, but comedies are supposed to be funny, so...

For hour-long shows, my vote is between *Body of Proof* and My Generation. Not only is Body of Proof on Friday nights (death slot), but it's yet another medical examiner/crime show. It doesn't sound too different from Crossing Jordan, plus the fact that there are already 3 CSI's, 2 Law and Orders, and 2 NCIS's (among others). There is absolutely no need for another crime procedural.

On a selfish not I'm hoping Chase or Undercovers gets axed to help Chuck's chances of a full pick up. Undercovers will likely do good because JJ Abrams is attached, but he has a lot of male fans and from what I can tell the show looks more like a light-hearted, watered down version of Alias. The Event is one of the only shows I'm looking forward to so I'm hoping it stays.

For Pick Ups I think if the trailer I saw attached to "The Expendables" is any indication, *Hawaii Five-0* will have no trouble finding an audience. It also has a lot of good buzz, and could do good for CBS in that 18-49 demo, which they could use. They're also pretty much the Crime Fighting network, so... the only thing going against it is Alex O'Loughlin, who they apparently hate.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

terpfan1980 said:


> Which ones are on FOX or NBC? Those are the ones that are most likely to live the short life


Yeah, shows like Terminator or Dollhouse, where the INSTANT they showed weakness in the ratings, Fox pulled them! Never even gave them a chance!


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, shows like Terminator or Dollhouse, where the INSTANT they showed weakness in the ratings, Fox pulled them! Never even gave them a chance!


Sarcasm? They both had two seasons!


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Here's my hope:

**** My Dad Says,
halfway through the first episode CBS puts up bars and tone with a big "We're Sorry" superimposed over it.

Can't get much quicker canceled than that.


phox


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

Wow. Such negativity towards shows that haven't even aired.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

YCantAngieRead said:


> Wow. Such negativity towards shows that haven't even aired.


If there's not one single laugh during a two or three minute trailer for a sitcom, that's not a good sign of you ask me. If they want people to like their comedies then they should be funny.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Sarcasm? They both had two seasons!


Exactly.

Fox's reputation for yanking shows fast is based on things that happened years ago, under entirely different leadership. Yet people continue to harangue them despite the amazing opportunities they give shows with ratings so crappy they wouldn't last a month on any other network.

BiH, people who still say BiH Fox!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I think the first to be pulled will be ABC's My Generation. I haven't heard very good things about it, and it's in a brutal timeslot at 8:00 p.m. on Thursday night, going against The Big Bang Theory, Bones, Community/30 Rock and The Vampire Diaries.

The first to get a full season pickup doesn't really matter. That's just a matter of whenever the network execs get around to it. I imagine L&O:LA is probably the surest bet for immediate success of the new shows, but that doesn't mean NBC will be the first to announce a pickup.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Burn in Hell Fox!!!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

BiH Fox has jumped the shark.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

I think something will get canceled before Body of Proof even premieres.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> Burn in Hell Fox!!!


You misspelled _Hellcats._


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Undercovers....I give it 4 episodes. I think Mike and Molly will make it. The "According to Jim" crowd has to have some show to watch. I also think Outsourced will make it similar to Community.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Undercovers could be a hit, if it's as silly as it looks.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

phox_mulder said:


> Here's my hope:
> 
> **** My Dad Says,
> halfway through the first episode CBS puts up bars and tone with a big "We're Sorry" superimposed over it.
> ...


I am just about willing to agree with you, although I think "Outsourced" does look amazingly unfunny.

But William Shatner playing an updated "Archie Bunker" just doesn't seem that too appealing for me (seeing as that I think he's fantastic).

First to get picked up? That is a lot more difficult but I'll vote for "The Event."


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Undercovers could be a hit, if it's as silly as it looks.


I'm looking forward to Undercovers. IF it's written at all well, it could be a fun show.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

For the half-hours, _**** My Dad Says_, _Outsourced_, and _Mike and Molly_ are all early contenders. I'll give the cancellation edge to _Outsourced_ simply because it touches on too much of a hot-button issue to be successful, but _**** My Dad Says_ is also vulnerable given CBS' already strong comedy lineup. I wouldn't bet against _Mike & Molly_ airing its full front-end order given that Chuck Lorre is EPing the show, but Melissa McCarthy in any kind of leading role is a death sentence.

For half-hour pickups, I've heard lots of positive buzz surrounding _Raising Hope_. I'll lay early odds on that surviving the Fox curse, especially since EP Greg Garcia tends to wait a while before beating shows mercilessly into the ground (see: _My Name is Earl_).

For hour-longs, it's a tossup between _Hellcats_, _The Defenders_, _Detroit 187_ and _My Generation_. I'll give the cancellation edge to _My Generation_ because the mockumentary format is played out, and it seems like it resembles the awesome CBS failure _The Class_ too closely without the writing prestige that carried the latter for a full season. Still, Dawn Ostroff has an itchy trigger finger, and anything with Jerry O'Connell and Jim Belushi as leads can't end well (for the latter, I'm sure ABC will be watching closely given O'Connell's role in the _Big Shots_ downfall of '07. Regarding _Detroit 187_, ABC has had a more storied history of failed crime procedurals than most in recent years trying to replicate _NYPD Blue_'s success, so I don't expect it to last beyond four eps.

For hour-long pickups, I'll go with _Hawaii Five-0_, followed closely by _Nikita_ and _No Ordinary Family_.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Neenahboy said:


> I'll give the cancellation edge to _My Generation_ because the mockumentary format is played out, and it seems like it resembles the awesome CBS failure _The Class_ too closely without the writing prestige that carried the latter for a full season. Still, Dawn Ostroff has an itchy trigger finger, and anything with Jerry O'Connell and Jim Belushi as leads can't end well (for the latter, I'm sure ABC will be watching closely given O'Connell's role in the _Big Shots_ downfall of '07.


I think My Generation is up there on the list to go early. I never saw The Class but the premise does sound similar. Also I think My Generation sounds like Reunion (presumably) without the murder plot. It also seems like it will be laden with one cliche after another (granted that's a total assumption, but I have very little faith in H-wood these days).

I forgot all about the Jim Belushi/Defenders thing. I remember him from "The Principal" in the 90's (80s?) so I know he can play dramatic roles, but I honestly can't imagine that a mass audience will be able to take him seriously on a weekly basis, especially after spending an inexplicable amount of years on the unwatchable "According to Jim".


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

YCantAngieRead said:


> Wow. Such negativity towards shows that haven't even aired.


A voice of sanity here! OK, two, you too, Rob 

I for one am going to sit back, enjoy some new shows and not worry what might happen to them a few weeks or months down the line.

I'm not going to worry that the evil networks are going to take my ball away and ruin my fun.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Based on who's behind Mike and Molly as well as the demographic it's shooting for, I bet it becomes another Monday night hit with CBS.

Pretty much everything else on the above list looks pretty worthless and I wouldn't care if they disappeared.

I MAY give H5-0 a chance but won't stick around if it doesn't keep me interested after an ep or two.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I think My Generation and Lone Star are my two favorites to get the Ax. Not sure about the comedies, but after reading the reviews, it seems to me we've taken a BIG step backwards in sitcoms this year. The least 2-3 years we've gotten some good ones. There's not ONE in this group I'm even remotely intrigued about but I'll give most of them a shot.

Renewed? I think Hawaii Five O will be renewed very quickly. I won't watch it, but it seems the type of show the CSI/NCIS crowd would.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I vote for $#&#37;^ My Dad Says or My Generation to go first

Pickups will be Hawaii Five-O and the one with Jimmy Smits.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Neenahboy said:


> I wouldn't bet against _Mike & Molly_ airing its full front-end order given that Chuck Lorre is EPing the show, but Melissa McCarthy in any kind of leading role is a death sentence.


I'm curious how you determined Melissa McCarthy is a show killer, seeing as she's been a regular on two successful series -- Gilmore girls and Samantha Who? -- and has never been the lead on any series.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Running Wilde and Raising Hope are not going to be long-lived. I think Outsourced will be given every opportunity to develop an audience. I also think that No Ordinary Family, The Whole Truth, Outlaw, and Body Of Proof are also not going to make it. Only one out of Detroit 187 or Blue Bloods will survive too.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

The Event looks like a serial, so I vote it for first pulled.


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

I'll agree with DevDog, My Generation is already fighting an uphill battle right out of the starting gate. Big Bang fans WILL follow the show to its new time slot (I'm one of them) and those other 8 pm shows have an established fan base. I give Generation a month at most to survive.

My vote for first pickup is The Event. I don't think NBC will be dumb enough to screw around with a serial again (ala Persons Unknown).

I would have voted for Good Guys to be first pulled, but technically it's not a "new" Fall show.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

I downloaded and watched Lone Star on my TiVo. I made it through 20 minutes of the 45 and deleted it. Dreck.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Outsourced is this year's Coupling. I loved the film, but unless the viewing public is a lot more patient than I expect, the show won't last that long.

Raising Hope is something I'd like to see do ok, but I'm not sure Fox will be that patient with it. Yes they were more patient with Terminator: SCC, and Dollhouse, but they still aren't all that patient. (What happened to the new comedies they had last season... Brothers and the one with Sock?)

NBC is a bit more patient, but they still tend to pull the plug too early on stuff too.

Much of the rest of the choices don't do anything for me either way, though I have interest in checking out No Ordinary Family and had heard mixed comments about it that have me thinking it probably won't last long.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

SorenTodd said:


> I'll agree with DevDog, My Generation is already fighting an uphill battle right out of the starting gate. Big Bang fans WILL follow the show to its new time slot (I'm one of them) and those other 8 pm shows have an established fan base. I give Generation a month at most to survive.
> 
> My vote for first pickup is The Event. I don't think NBC will be dumb enough to screw around with a serial again (ala Persons Unknown).
> 
> I would have voted for Good Guys to be first pulled, but technically it's not a "new" Fall show.


I think if The Event doesn't get decent ratings, it will go. I don't think they want to wait until there is any chance of a small but loyal fan base that might scream that it gets pulled before there is any resolution. If it goes in 3-4 weeks, nobody will miss it. That said, if the ratings are not totally horrible, but still bad, this is a candidate for being in one of those "taken off the schedule to be shown at a later time" deals. Maybe to be burned off during Christmas or in the following summer.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

terpfan1980 said:


> Raising Hope is something I'd like to see do ok, but I'm not sure Fox will be that patient with it. Yes they were more patient with Terminator: SCC, and Dollhouse, but they still aren't all that patient. (What happened to the new comedies they had last season... Brothers and the one with Sock?)


_Brothers_ was eventually sent to the _Sit Down, Shut Up_ graveyard slot (Saturday night at midnight - Fox will be airing "encores" of _Running Wilde_ there (with, IIRC, encores of _Lonestar_ in the old MadTV/Wanda Sykes timeslot right before it) when the new season starts).

I assume "the one with Sock" was _Sons of Tucson_ - it was pulled quickly, but its final few episodes were burned off in May/June on Sundays at 7:30.

-- Don


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> The Event looks like a serial, so I vote it for first pulled.


I don't think there's any chance of that. This is NBC's marquee show for this season, and if they abandon it early, they'll be admitting defeat in a season when they should be on the rise. Also, I think the networks know that pulling a serialized show that's been heavily promoted is a big no-no. I'd bet my house that The Event makes an entire season. It may turn out to be more like FlashForward than LOST, but I think NBC knows they have to leave it alone and let it play out if they want to maintain any credibility with viewers.


terpfan1980 said:


> Outsourced is this year's Coupling. I loved the film, but unless the viewing public is a lot more patient than I expect, the show won't last that long.
> 
> Raising Hope is something I'd like to see do ok, but I'm not sure Fox will be that patient with it. Yes they were more patient with Terminator: SCC, and Dollhouse, but they still aren't all that patient. (What happened to the new comedies they had last season... Brothers and the one with Sock?)


Brothers actually got plenty of chances last year. Even after it was painfully obvious that it was DOA, FOX continued to air it in its scheduled timeslot on Friday night for several months, and often aired repeats on Sunday evenings before the Animation Domination block. As Don said, it eventually found its way to Saturday midnight, but that was probably not until midseason. I'm pretty sure that it aired at least 8-10 episodes in its Friday primetime slot, even though the ratings it got didn't justify more than 1-2 airings, period.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think there's any chance of that. This is NBC's marquee show for this season, and if they abandon it early, they'll be admitting defeat in a season when they should be on the rise. Also, I think the networks know that pulling a serialized show that's been heavily promoted is a big no-no. I'd bet my house that The Event makes an entire season. It may turn out to be more like FlashForward than LOST, but I think NBC knows they have to leave it alone and let it play out if they want to maintain any credibility with viewers.
> 
> Brothers actually got plenty of chances last year. Even after it was painfully obvious that it was DOA, FOX continued to air it in its scheduled timeslot on Friday night for several months, and often aired repeats on Sunday evenings before the Animation Domination block. As Don said, it eventually found its way to Saturday midnight, but that was probably not until midseason. I'm pretty sure that it aired at least 8-10 episodes in its Friday primetime slot, even though the ratings it got didn't justify more than 1-2 airings, period.


In your area that might be true (about Brothers). In my area I think my DVR (yes, I had set a series pass for the show) picked up about 3 episodes (at most) before the show disappeared. It reappeared a lot later, but basically didn't last all that long.

Sons of Tucson was the other show I was thinking about and it disappeared pretty quickly too. About 2 or 3 episodes before it went to forgotten areas of the schedule.

I remember seeing both shows in late night hours and what seemed to be odd times and those seemed to be just an effort to burn off episodes that were already in the can.

The one show that I know that Fox had wayyyyyyyyy too much patience for was the dreadful 'til Death which it seemed that they must have been bribed to continue airing episodes of. It started out weak, got worse and then seemed to get even worse over the last couple of seasons that it aired. Thankfully it seemed many of the episodes of it were pre-empted on the east coast, sparing the citizens in that area


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Brothers actually got plenty of chances last year. Even after it was painfully obvious that it was DOA, FOX continued to air it in its scheduled timeslot on Friday night for several months, and often aired repeats on Sunday evenings before the Animation Domination block. As Don said, it eventually found its way to Saturday midnight, but that was probably not until midseason. I'm pretty sure that it aired at least 8-10 episodes in its Friday primetime slot, even though the ratings it got didn't justify more than 1-2 airings, period.


Keep in mind that the main reason Brothers stayed on for as long as it did was, they had no other half-hour live-action shows to fill the other half of the hour that 'Til Death was in. As for the move to late night Saturday, that wasn't until something like May or June - they didn't burn off any new episodes there (either Fox was just tired of airing the same Sit Down, Shut Up episodes over and over again, or they had some contractual limit to three airings per episode).



terpfan1980 said:


> The one show that I know that Fox had wayyyyyyyyy too much patience for was the dreadful 'til Death which it seemed that they must have been bribed to continue airing episodes of. It started out weak, got worse and then seemed to get even worse over the last couple of seasons that it aired. Thankfully it seemed many of the episodes of it were pre-empted on the east coast, sparing the citizens in that area


The reason it got its final season was, the producers were so desperate to get enough episodes to syndicate it that Fox got a bargain basement price for it - your comment that Fox was bribed to air it is not far from the truth. In the second half of the season, Fox actually aired previously unaired episodes from the previous season as well as new episodes from the last season in the Sunday 7-8 block (and, as you pointed out, at least one episode never aired in the east, because of a NASCAR overrun - this is a change from Fox's usual programming rules, where if a scheduled new episode doesn't air in the east, they replace it with a rerun in the west, but in this case, they were burning off episodes anyway).

-- Don


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

terpfan1980 said:


> Sons of Tucson was the other show I was thinking about and it disappeared pretty quickly too. About 2 or 3 episodes before it went to forgotten areas of the schedule.


Unlike Brothers, which just didn't get any promotion and toiled away in its timeslot for a few months before quietly disappearing, Sons of Tucson was affirmatively canceled after only a couple airings and it was "repurposed" into a crappy timeslot in the summer when nobody would be watching.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/04/05/sons-of-tucson-canceled/47392


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Unlike Brothers, which just didn't get any promotion and toiled away in its timeslot for a few months before quietly disappearing


...except, of course, for the promotion it got on Fox's NFL pre-game and post-game shows, thanks to Brothers star Michael Strahan being on both of those shows as well.

-- Don


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> Also, I think the networks know that pulling a serialized show that's been heavily promoted is a big no-no. I'd bet my house that The Event makes an entire season. It may turn out to be more like FlashForward than LOST, but I think NBC knows they have to leave it alone and let it play out if they want to maintain any credibility with viewers.


Exactly. As an avid "24" fan, I was spoiled with that show's long run. But if The Event is one season and done, I won't shed major tears. Just as long as NBC provides a proper closure.

Also, I don't see the time slot as a major hurdle. Half Men is long in the tooth, and LoneStar has bomb written all over it. Dancing with Stars attracts a mostly female audience. I see no reason why The Event can't attract a healthy 7 to 8 million viewers, which is all NBC can hope for at this point.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

SorenTodd said:


> Half Men is long in the tooth, and LoneStar has bomb written all over it.


I expect Lone Star to bomb for the same reason Profit did: Nielsen audiences don't like bad guys as the main character.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

SorenTodd said:


> Exactly. As an avid "24" fan, I was spoiled with that show's long run. But if The Event is one season and done, I won't shed major tears. Just as long as NBC provides a proper closure.
> 
> Also, I don't see the time slot as a major hurdle. Half Men is long in the tooth, and LoneStar has bomb written all over it. Dancing with Stars attracts a mostly female audience. I see no reason why The Event can't attract a healthy 7 to 8 million viewers, which is all NBC can hope for at this point.


If they do The Event like 24, I'd be happy with that. Each season of 24 was a self contained story line. My guess is that The Event is probably planned more like Lost, where things will continue from season to season assuming it lasts more than one. That was the beauty of 24. Each season was a different story. Even if you didn't like the story line for season 3, there was always hope that season 4 would be better.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> I expect Lone Star to bomb for the same reason Profit did: Nielsen audiences don't like bad guys as the main character.


I disagree. There have been been shows where bad guys were the main character and were highly successful. The Sopranos is the obvious example. The Riches, is another (although I'm not sure how ratings were, it did last 2 seasons). If a bad guy has charisma and is a compelling character, people will watch.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I disagree. There have been been shows where bad guys were the main character and were highly successful. The Sopranos is the obvious example. The Riches, is another (although I'm not sure how ratings were, it did last 2 seasons). If a bad guy has charisma and is a compelling character, people will watch.


From the half-hour I saw of Lone Star before I gave up, the problem is that he doesn't commit to being a bad guy. I like heroes, I like villains, but I can't stand people who just can't make up their minds.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

We should really make some sort of fantasy pick-em league for this stuff.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> I disagree. There have been been shows where bad guys were the main character and were highly successful.


Both The Sopranos and Dexter are on Premium channels, which seem to have a demographic more amenable to such shows than network TV.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

mrdazzo7 said:


> The nominees are:
> 
> *Comedies:*
> Mike and Molly
> ...


I think all the comedies are crapshoots. Having watched some previews and such, Raising Hope and Running Wilde might do okay, but since they are both on Fox no bets on that. Not sure what Better with You is, and I had hopes for Outsourced but it is getting panned and seeing the preview on the NBC preview show I can see why.

Mike and Molly might work, but I don't know if will be strong enough to stand as a standard sitcom.

*Hour-Long's*
Hawaii Five-0
Lone Star
The Event
Chase[/quote]

Hawaii Five-0 has gotten good reviews. I think this one has a decent chance of being successful. Maybe the first reboot in a while. I am intrigued by Lone Star, but again I think it is on Fox so it is a crap shoot.

I hate the name of The Event, and I hate the likelyhood that any kind of show like this is going to be mishandled by any network that runs it, but it might be okay. I have seen some very positive reviews. I know NBC wants this to succeed big time, so I give it a chance at early renewal just because NBC might think it might give people more confidence in watching it.

Chase seems like one of 10 cable shows that already exists. I am always telling NBC to do that, I just don't know if it is actually as good as any of them.



> No Ordinary Family
> Detroit 187
> The Whole Truth
> The Defenders
> Hellcats


No Ordinary Family.. Not really my thing... Sounds interesting on paper, but will probably bore me in reality... Not really into science fiction superhero stuff, and never been a Chikilis fan.. so I just doubt I will like this... it may stay...

Detroit 187 is weird.. I am going to put this one up for early departure. I like Imperioli, but they changed the format of the show early on because of a killing during a real life A&E Documentary following Detroit Police Officers. I just don't know if it will have enough for me to watch it or to stick around.

I like the leads in the defenders, and it seems quirky and interesting. I will watch it for sure, but I don't think it will have great ratings. At risk for being canceled relatively quickly.



> Undercovers


I am guessing this is a front runner for early pick up. I am sure NBC Execs are personally attending to all of JJ Abrahams needs at this point, no matter what they are.. Wishful thinking on their part maybe?

Looks possibly interesting, I suspect it will be over-rated, but again could see NBC pushing it and renewing it early in hopes of keeping viewers/attracting new viewers.



> Law and Order: LA
> My Generation
> Nikita
> Secret Millionaire
> ...


LOLA is going to be around for a few years. Probably won't be renewed any time soon but also is not going to be canceled.

Don't know what My Generation or Body of Proof are so not sure.

Blue Bloods and Outlaw are both going to be on Friday Nights. Blue Bloods looks really interesting to me, and I think they will give it a chance. I have seen comments and concerns about the stories and scripts for Outlaw, and it may really struggle on Friday nights. Of those two, I would take Blue Bloods to stay and Outlaw to potentially be the first one out.

Secret Millionaire, don't know that one, and I have already watched Nikita. It is not bad, although Maggie Q has some skin issues and has old lady hands, so I am not sure she is the perfect fit for this role. I think this show will do well for CW, but we will see. I don't know how it did its first airing. It will neither be first out or first renewed.

If I had to guess, first renewed will be either The Event or Undercovers, because NBC desperately needs to anchor something on their schedule.

First out, I will go with Outlaw right now. Maybe Defenders.

Funny thing is I think I am more likely going to watch those shows I pick first out as opposed to those I think will be first renewed.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Interesting that several of you think Lonestar will bomb. Other than in this thread, I've heard nothing but positive reviews about the show, and several of the TV critics I trust think it's one of the strongest pilots this fall. 

I'm still on the fence about it myself, because I'm not sure the subject matter is up my alley, but at least according to people in the know, the show is very well written and produced.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I thought it was just awful. I couldn't even finish the pilot.

Which, of course, doesn't mean it won't be a big hit. Lots of things I think are just awful are big hits. But this one would surprise me. It may be well-acted and well-written, but the characters are just unappealing. As I said before, the lead isn't good enough to be a good hero and isn't bad enough to be a good villain. He's just...whiny. He's no Tony Soprano or Vic Mackey, and if you're going to have a crook carry a show, he'd better be a Tony Soprano or Vic Mackey.

Now, maybe the show has hidden depths and I'm just not giving it a fair chance. But there's a ton of new stuff this Fall, and if it doesn't grab me right away, I'm going to move on. I suspect I'm not the only one.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, it appears that those of you who chose Lone Star may turn out to be right. It debuted to absolutely atrocious ratings (1.3 rating for adults 18-49 and only 4 million viewers). I'm still waiting to see how bad My Generation does, but I think Lone Star is currently the leader in the clubhouse.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Having watched the delightful "highlights" on the TiVo Showcase, I'll say that Shat My Dad Says (&#169;2010 Me) should be canceled before the premiere episode airs.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

HBO already ordered a second season of Boardwalk Empire after _the first episode_ airing got 4.8 million viewers.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Had no idea Boardwalk Empire was not a mini-series until I saw the pickup announcement.

-smak-


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

After its dismal premiere, and considering the fact that we're dealing with Fox, I'll change my vote for "first pulled" to _Lone Star_.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

netringer said:


> HBO already ordered a second season of Boardwalk Empire after _the first episode_ airing got 4.8 million viewers.


They invested a lot of money in building that set, not surprising, plus the show is pretty good.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

I cancelled Mike and Molly after 10 minutes. I was hoping CBS would too.


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## omnibus (Sep 25, 2001)

Where's Kelsey Grammer this season?


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

netringer said:


> Having watched the delightful "highlights" on the TiVo Showcase, I'll say that Shat My Dad Says (©2010 Me) should be canceled before the premiere episode airs.


There's just no way a show with The Shat gets canceled that fast. He can carry that show for half a season.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Wow, I still have Lone Star on my recorder and now I am gun-shy about watching it, seeing the ratings and folks predictions of an early exit.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Neenahboy said:


> After its dismal premiere, and considering the fact that we're dealing with Fox, I'll change my vote for "first pulled" to _Lone Star_.


Flag! You can't change after airings!


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

I'm sorry, but I keep scanning the thread titles in the main list, and I keep skipping over the "ll" in full and the "pi" in pick, and I have to do a double take every time.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

As far as the comedies go, the shows with the loudest laugh tracks probably have the best chance of survival since the audience then knows what parts are funny and when they should laugh. Non-laugh track comedies are just too much work.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Bob_Newhart said:


> As far as the comedies go, the shows with the loudest laugh tracks probably have the best chance of survival since the audience then knows what parts are funny and when they should laugh. Non-laugh track comedies are just too much work.


:up:

This explains why 'According To Jim' was on for so long.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

jschuur said:


> There's just no way a show with The Shat gets canceled that fast. He can carry that show for half a season.


Remember his short-lived ABC game show?

How about when they had him host the first attempt at a USA version of _Iron Chef?_ (His catchphrase: "Turn up the heat!")

-- Don


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I think The Event will go fast. I was expecting a mystery about a conspiracy to do a 9/11 level event and got bad SF. meh.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

They need to do an updated version of Columbo.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

The debut of The Whole Truth pulled a 1.5 last night.
Ouch, ouch, ouch.
This one's a goner.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JYoung said:


> The debut of The Whole Truth pulled a 1.5 last night.
> Ouch, ouch, ouch.
> This one's a goner.


Made even worse by the fact that ABC has "Body of Proof" on the sidelines just waiting for a timeslot. Lone Star's 1.3 on Monday was really bad, but FOX doesn't really have anything else to put in that slot while ABC seems prepared for some of their shows to tank. I'll be interested to see how bad the ratings are for My Generation tonight.


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'll be interested to see how bad the ratings are for My Generation tonight.


It's going to crash and burn in the worst way.

Bones already has a big locked-in fan base. Big Bang and Shat My Dad Says will come roaring out of the gate. And Vampire Diaries is The CW's highest rated show.

The only question is if Generation can top the two NBC sitcoms. Even with new eps, they usually only get around 4 to 5 million viewers.

If Generation shows up in my On Demand menu, I'll give it a try. Otherwise, forget it, I'm not giving up one of my tuners for this unproven twaddle.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Bob_Newhart said:


> They need to do an updated version of Columbo.


_The Mentalist_, anyone?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Bob_Newhart said:


> They need to do an updated version of Columbo.


The Glades. They just replaced the one-eyed guy in rumpled raincoat with a good-looking guy in trendy jeans.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

netringer said:


> The Glades. They just replaced the one-eyed guy in rumpled raincoat with a good-looking guy in trendy jeans.


What did you think of The Glades? I'm almost done collecting the season on my tivo.

As to the OP: Vote for first canceled hour-long is The Defenders and Lone Star, no vote on the comedies for first pickup, but vote for first canceled is Outsourced. Some of the comedies I never even heard of.

Vote for first pick ups are Nikita and Hawaii Five-0.

I'm waiting to watch most new shows -- I'm tired of getting hooked on a new show that gets canceled. Figured we'd wait and see what shakes out ;-) With returning shows, and older shows that we didn't watch b/c they conflicted with something else but now we can record them with the tivo, there'll be plenty to keep us busy for awhile.

ps - even though I voted for The Defenders to be first canceled, that is one I was looking forward to checking out.


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

> ps - even though I voted for The Defenders to be first canceled, that is one I was looking forward to checking out.


This came roaring out of the gate, with 12.1 million viewers. It's in no danger of being axed.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

SorenTodd said:


> This came roaring out of the gate, with 12.1 million viewers. It's in no danger of being axed.


Wow! Lemons for my guess ;-)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

SorenTodd said:


> This came roaring out of the gate, with 12.1 million viewers. It's in no danger of being axed.


Total viewers really doesn't matter. It's the adults 18-49 rating that drives everything. But The Defenders got a 2.9 in that rating, which is very respectable, so I think it will be around for a while. On the other hand, The Whole Truth on ABC debuted with a 1.5 last night, so it's in the running with Lone Star to get the first axe.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Total viewers really doesn't matter. It's the adults 18-49 rating that drives everything. But The Defenders got a 2.9 in that rating, which is very respectable, so I think it will be around for a while. On the other hand, The Whole Truth on ABC debuted with a 1.5 last night, so it's in the running with Lone Star to get the first axe.


While I don't think it will get axed first, I expect Detroit 187 to go soon as well as it pulled a 2.3.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> On the other hand, The Whole Truth on ABC debuted with a 1.5 last night, so it's in the running with Lone Star to get the first axe.


Of course, because those are 2 out of the 4 hour long dramas I decided to try this year.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> Total viewers really doesn't matter. It's the adults 18-49 rating that drives everything. But The Defenders got a 2.9 in that rating, which is very respectable, so I think it will be around for a while. On the other hand, The Whole Truth on ABC debuted with a 1.5 last night, so it's in the running with Lone Star to get the first axe.


Do you under stand the ratings system? Because I still don't. From reading around I know that "18-49 is everything" but I don't get how they calculate it. I know it's complex but can you give me just a basic breakdown of what a "2.9" and a "1.5" are?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Do you under stand the ratings system? Because I still don't. From reading around I know that "18-49 is everything" but I don't get how they calculate it. I know it's complex but can you give me just a basic breakdown of what a "2.9" and a "1.5" are?


Easiest way is to explain copy from Wikipedia...

A single national ratings point represents one percent of the total number, or 1,159,000 households for the 201011 season.[2] Nielsen re-estimates the number of TV-equipped households each August for the upcoming television season.
Share is the percentage of television sets in use tuned to the program. For example, Nielsen may report a show as receiving a 9.2/15 during its broadcast, meaning that on average 9.2 percent of all television-equipped households were tuned in to that program at any given moment, while 15 percent of households watching TV were tuned into that program during this time slot. The difference between rating and share is that a rating reflects the percentage of the total population of televisions tuned to a particular program while share reflects the percentage of televisions actually in use.[3]


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

So rating is dew point, and share is relative humidity.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So rating is dew point, and share is relative humidity.


One measures all TV households (which is more or less every household) and the other measures households with TVs turned on at that time. The share will always be more than the rating.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> One measures all TV households (which is more or less every household) and the other measures households with TVs turned on at that time. The share will always be more than the rating.


My (admittedly oblique) point was that one is absolute, and one is relative.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Do you under stand the ratings system? Because I still don't. From reading around I know that "18-49 is everything" but I don't get how they calculate it. I know it's complex but can you give me just a basic breakdown of what a "2.9" and a "1.5" are?


Smeek gave a good description of what the numbers mean and how they're calculated. Every night, there is a ratings and share for total households, a total number of viewers, and then ratings and share for various demographic groups. Network press releases usually tout the total viewers, since that's usually the most impressive number (12 million viewers!) and is easiest for people to understand. However, from a business perspective, the most important demographic group for the broadcast networks is adults 18-49, so that's the rating numbers you'll usually see.

To break it down into relative terms, the broadcast networks would like to see at least a 2.5 rating for their primetime shows, but will generally won't cancel something if it gets better than 2.0. However, under 2.0 is pretty bad and usually means a show is headed for cancellation.

There are also several additional factors that the networks look at besides just the raw ratings numbers. One of those is retention. This means that if House airs on Monday night at 8 pm on FOX and gets a 4.2 rating, and then Lone Star follows house at 9 pm and gets a 1.3, Lone Star only retained 31% of House's audience. That's a really low retention rate. FOX would prefer to use its highly rated shows, like House, to help promote other shows behind it. But retaining only 31% is wasting the valuable property that is House. Another factor is what night and timeslot the show airs in. Sunday night traditionally has the most total viewers, so the numbers on that night have to be a little higher to look good. Ad rates are most expensive on Thursday nights, so the networks want to put their best efforts there. Fridays have fewer viewers, so networks are a little more forgiving of shows on that night. The 10 pm timeslot gets fewer viewers overall than the 8 pm or 9 pm timeslots, but there are fewer networks competing in that slot (FOX and The CW don't program 10 pm) so that changes the analysis of the numbers.

To complicate matters even more, the networks pre-sell all their advertising and generally guarantee a certain minimum ratings number for each show/timeslot. Advertisers pay based on the guarantee. A show like House likely has a guarantee in the 3.5-4.0 range and likely commands over $300,000 per 30-second spot. A show like Lone Star probably had a guarantee closer to 2.0 and likely commanded somewhere north of $100k per 30 second spot. If the show performs better than the guarantee, then the advertiser got a bargain. But if the show performs below the guarantee, the networks have to refund money back to the advertisers (they don't actually give money back, they just give additional ad time for free). As you can imagine, the networks do not like doing that. They'd rather cancel a show and replace it with reruns of a highly rated show than give away free ad time.

So to sum it all up, Lone Star got a 1.3, which means that only 1.3% of all adults 18-49 who were watching TV between 9 and 10 pm on Monday night were watching FOX, and that's a particularly low number. If the show doesn't improve on that number in its second outing, FOX will be on the hook for "give backs," and so they'll ditch the show before allowing it to stay on Monday night after House. The guaranteed number on Friday night is likely lower, so if they really believe in the show and don't want to outright cancel it, they could move it to a timeslot where there isn't so much pressure.

I hope this was helpful. I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have.


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## jebbbz (Sep 7, 2007)

wisny said:


> What did you think of The Glades? I'm almost done collecting the season on my tivo.


Lest this go unanswered in the crush of postings I will intrude to say it is a great favorite of mine. I am even cheering on the romantic side story. I don't know your other preferences but I rank it (with Justified) as my favorite new show(s).


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

I'm predicting Outsourced going first..or close to first...then Shatner's lame show...followed by that lame ABC show "Better with you" or whatever it's called.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So rating is dew point, and share is relative humidity.


That comparison is all wet.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> To complicate matters even more, the networks pre-sell all their advertising and generally guarantee a certain minimum ratings number for each show/timeslot. Advertisers pay based on the guarantee. A show like House likely has a guarantee in the 3.5-4.0 range and likely commands over $300,000 per 30-second spot. A show like Lone Star probably had a guarantee closer to 2.0 and likely commanded somewhere north of $100k per 30 second spot. If the show performs better than the guarantee, then the advertiser got a bargain. But if the show performs below the guarantee, the networks have to refund money back to the advertisers (they don't actually give money back, they just give additional ad time for free). As you can imagine, the networks do not like doing that. They'd rather cancel a show and replace it with reruns of a highly rated show than give away free ad time.


For cable, the guarantees are usually not per show, but sold as packages. So if one show over/under delivers, they can make it up in other shows. Broadcast networks do not use this model.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

eddyj said:


> That comparison is all wet.


Depends on how high the ratings are.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

jebbbz said:


> Lest this go unanswered in the crush of postings I will intrude to say it is a great favorite of mine. I am even cheering on the romantic side story. I don't know your other preferences but I rank it (with Justified) as my favorite new show(s).


Thanks, jeb . We've just started collecting Justified, too. I didn't know FX (and btw, AMC) had all these great shows. Pre-tivo, we'd been watching alot of usa, tnt, syfy, and cbs shows.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My (admittedly oblique) point was that one is absolute, and one is relative.


Humidity is absolute as well. The difference between actual and dew point temps determines the relative humidity.

I think your point is that share depends on another, not disclosed number, which is how many tvs are turned on.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> Humidity is absolute as well. The difference between actual and dew point temps determines the relative humidity.


Humidity is not absolute in the sense that 60% humidity is quite pleasant when it's 50 degrees out, and unbearable when it's 90.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

Based on the 10 or so minutes I saw, my vote is for "$#*! My Dad Says" to be the first axed. Of course, I have no idea what kind of ratings it pulled.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> My (admittedly oblique) point was that one is absolute, and one is relative.


It made perfect sense to me but I remember my geology class.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I think whether a show gets pulled is more dependent on its second week ratings. Sure, there are shows that people did not watch the first week because they did not like the premise. Lone Star is one of those for me. But if people watch the pilot and go "meh" then the show sinks rapidly.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

sieglinde said:


> I think whether a show gets pulled is more dependent on its second week ratings. Sure, there are shows that people did not watch the first week because they did not like the premise. Lone Star is one of those for me. But if people watch the pilot and go "meh" then the show sinks rapidly.


Doesn't happen often, but there have been a few shows cancelled after one airing. I can think of "South of Sunset" with Glenn Frey and "Emily's Reasons Why Not" with Heather Graham. I didn't watch either, but I can remember that CBS promoted the hell out of "South of Sunset". I was suprised to see it go so quickly. It must have been really bad.


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

For those of you who are interested in Prime Time ratings, I'd like to invite you to another forum in which I belong. Here's the URL:

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/63310451

The discussion there is geared more towards the ratings of the shows than actual storylines of shows. We also speculate on which shows will tank and which ones will do well.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DougF said:


> Based on the 10 or so minutes I saw, my vote is for "$#*! My Dad Says" to be the first axed. Of course, I have no idea what kind of ratings it pulled.


Shat My Dad Says pulled a very respectable 3.9 last night.
While The Big Bang Theory did much better with a 4.8, I'm sure that CBS is pleased with the Shat's numbers.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/09/2...ng-adults-my-generation-premiere-stalls/64978

For those that picked My Generation, you may very well have been right.
My Generation only did slightly better than The Whole Truth, pulling 1.6.
I'm pretty sure that both series are toast now.

ABC executives must be pounding down the Maalox over the poor performance of their new dramas so far.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JYoung said:


> For those that picked My Generation, you may very well have been right.
> My Generation only did slightly better than The Whole Truth, pulling 1.6.
> I'm pretty sure that both series are toast now.
> 
> ABC executives must be pounding down the Maalox over the poor performance of their new dramas so far.


And a 1.6 in the 8 pm slot on Thursday is a much bigger problem for ABC than a 1.5 in the 10 pm slot on Wednesday. The only bright spot for My Generation (vs. The Whole Truth) might be that ABC's Body of Proof, which is waiting in the wings for a timeslot, isn't really an 8 pm show, so it's unlikely to replace My Generation, while it's very possible it will replace The Whole Truth.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> And a 1.6 in the 8 pm slot on Thursday is a much bigger problem for ABC than a 1.5 in the 10 pm slot on Wednesday. The only bright spot for My Generation (vs. The Whole Truth) might be that ABC's Body of Proof, which is waiting in the wings for a timeslot, isn't really an 8 pm show, so it's unlikely to replace My Generation, while it's very possible it will replace The Whole Truth.


The thing is, they could put Wipeout reruns in there and probably get better than 1.6. Certainly it would be cheaper.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JYoung said:


> The thing is, they could put Wipeout reruns in there and probably get better than 1.6. Certainly it would be cheaper.


True, but that would send the message that ABC has basically thrown in the towel on the most lucrative night of the week. That doesn't look good to investors, advertisers, or anyone else. ABC just got a brand new president, and I'm fairly certain he's not going to be willing to send that message, at least not this early in his tenure.


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> True, but that would send the message that ABC has basically thrown in the towel on the most lucrative night of the week. That doesn't look good to investors, advertisers, or anyone else. ABC just got a brand new president, and I'm fairly certain he's not going to be willing to send that message, at least not this early in his tenure.


But what else is he supposed to do? I'm sure he has access to even better ratings numbers than I do, and even I can see the writing on the wall.

ABC has *no* business scheduling a scripted drama in that time slot. If they want to get bold, put some version of Dancing With The Stars there. I'm sure their fans would follow it to the new time slot, Big Bang fans sure did.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

JYoung said:


> Shat My Dad Says pulled a very respectable 3.9 last night.
> While The Big Bang Theory did much better with a 4.8, I'm sure that CBS is pleased with the Shat's numbers.


For now. It's possible that a lot of those numbers are there merely for the "can it be as bad as it sounds?" curiosity factor, and the numbers may quickly drop off after that subsides.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

SorenTodd said:


> But what else is he supposed to do? I'm sure he has access to even better ratings numbers than I do, and even I can see the writing on the wall.
> 
> ABC has *no* business scheduling a scripted drama in that time slot. If they want to get bold, put some version of Dancing With The Stars there. I'm sure their fans would follow it to the new time slot, Big Bang fans sure did.


ABC showed at the beginning of last season that it can compete in the 8 pm Thursday timeslot just fine with a scripted drama. FlashForward performed very well at the beginning. Unfortunately, it wasn't very well written, acted or produced, and viewers quickly lost interest. But that doesn't mean ABC can't compete in that slot. It just means they need to find the right show. It's probably not a good idea to sacrifice a new show in that slot. They probably should grow a show on a different night and then move it there once it's established.


LoadStar said:


> For now. It's possible that a lot of those numbers are there merely for the "can it be as bad as it sounds?" curiosity factor, and the numbers may quickly drop off after that subsides.


I think there will be some of that, but I also think there will be a lot of lazy viewers watching BBT and simply not turning the channel afterward. Unless they're specifically changing to tune to 30 Rock, there really isn't anywhere else to go at that hour, so I expect (unfortunately), that Feces My Dad Says will actually be a respectable performer and stick around for a while.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I hear the CW just ordered an additional 6 episodes of HELLCATS. I don't know what the original season order was for...

(This seemed as good a place as any to post it... 
They also ordered 6 more episodes of One Tree Hill.)


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> I hear the CW just ordered an additional 6 episodes of HELLCATS. I don't know what the original season order was for...
> 
> (This seemed as good a place as any to post it...
> They also ordered 6 more episodes of One Tree Hill.)


They ordered 6 additional scripts of each. They haven't officially ordered them to be filmed yet, although that seems pretty likely.

I think each had a 13 episode order.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> ABC showed at the beginning of last season that it can compete in the 8 pm Thursday timeslot just fine with a scripted drama. FlashForward performed very well at the beginning. Unfortunately, it wasn't very well written, acted or produced,


I thought it was all of those. I still only watched the final episode within the past week or two though.. (because I have Tivos, even my *favorite* shows get stacked up as I watch other things.. or even, heck, I sometimes stop Tivoing my favorite shows since they'll show up on DVD, and watch something else that's likely to get cancelled and never show up on DVD.)


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

http://www.allyourtv.com/index.php?...n-appropriate-&catid=78:featurescoveringmedia

I found that Zap2it was having a campaign to save the show Lone Star. That doesn't make much sense.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

Does anyone know roughly when fall schedules start getting mixed up ie changing timeslots, dropped shows, etc? 

Is it different for each network and show, or is it generally about the same for everybody?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I make the motion that "Lone Star" is disqualified because the show's creator is cheating:



> The creator of the ill-fated FOX dud "Lone Star," has taken an unusual approach to try and get people to watch the program.
> 
> Kyle Killen wrote in his blog on Thursday that he will do special favors to attract viewers to the show, which he called "a damn good hour of television."
> 
> ...


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

My lawn needs mowed. Maybe I should contact him.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

YCantAngieRead said:


> My lawn needs mowed. Maybe I should contact him.


And I could use a sensual massage.

But I don't think I'll be contacting him...


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

I'm already hearing that LoneStar will be yanked after this Monday's airing. And yes, FOX has axed a show before after only 2 eps, Head Cases from 2005.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

SorenTodd said:


> I'm already hearing that LoneStar will be yanked after this Monday's airing. And yes, FOX has axed a show before after only 2 eps, Head Cases from 2005.


In that case:

Dear Fox,

If you remove Lone Star from your schedule my total hours spent watching Fox each week will be cut in half. Good thing you have Glee or else you would not have me tuning in at all.

Oh and lets see how on earth you will come up with anything successful against Two and a Half Men, Dancing With the Stars, The Event and Gossip Girl. Those shows pretty much have their demographics locked up.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

If Lone Star gets dropped, it will remove my 3 way conflict on Monday night. Still waiting for TiVo to record the re-airing of the pilot later tonight. I'd like to actually see it first.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> If Lone Star gets dropped, it will remove my 3 way conflict on Monday night. Still waiting for TiVo to record the re-airing of the pilot later tonight. I'd like to actually see it first.


Can't you still download the (SD) Lone Star pilot from the TiVo showcase?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

netringer said:


> Can't you still download the (SD) Lone Star pilot from the TiVo showcase?


Uhh... Not sure. I actually have it on my TiVo, but decided to record it off the Fox channel so I could see it in HD. (the D/L is not in HD)


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## David Ortiz (Jul 8, 2002)

Lone Star canceled

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/09/28/lone-star-canceled/


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

And the winner is... Lone Star

According to _Variety_


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

It will be interesting to see if any other shows get pulled after just two episodes. Lone Star was in the unenviable position of being the first low-rated show to air a second episode, but The Whole Truth and My Generation sucked just as bad last week. It will be interesting to see how their networks treat them after they have equally poor ratings in week 2.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I still vote for #$%^ My Dad Says.

Ya, it retained a large chunk of viewers from Big Bang Theory, but you know over half of those were just watching to see the train wreck.

This week when it loses over half those viewers, it'll be the next one to go.


phox


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> I still vote for #$%^ My Dad Says.
> 
> Ya, it retained a large chunk of viewers from Big Bang Theory, but you know over half of those were just watching to see the train wreck.
> 
> ...


Don't count on it. Of all the new shows that debuted in the first week, Shat My Dad Says got the highest ratings in adults 18-49. It's a bona fide hit. Even if it loses 25% of that audience, it will still have much better numbers than many shows on TV and they'll definitely be high enough to keep it on the air. Last week, SMDS got 12.5 million viewers and a 4.0 rating. I won't be surprised if this week it gets 9 million viewers and a 3.2 rating. That's a pretty big dropoff. And those number would still make it a bona fide hit.

As much as I agree that people were just tuning in after BBT, viewers are lazy. The only other show that starts at that timeslot is 30 Rock, and viewers have consistently shown that they're not interested in that show. Especially the type of viewers that watch CBS.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

DevdogAZ said:


> As much as I agree that people were just tuning in after BBT, viewers are lazy. The only other show that starts at that timeslot is 30 Rock, and viewers have consistently shown that they're not interested in that show. Especially the type of viewers that watch CBS.


What kind of ratings does 30 Rock get? I thought it was a hit show, since it's been on for awhile. Also, what kind of viewers watch CBS, generally?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wisny said:


> What kind of ratings does 30 Rock get? I thought it was a hit show, since it's been on for awhile. Also, what kind of viewers watch CBS, generally?


The season premiere of 30 Rock had 5.85 million viewers and a 2.6 rating (compared to SMDS's 12.5 million viewers and 4.0 rating). I predict that ths week, 30 Rock will be in the 2.5 rangs and SMDS will be in the 3.3 range. 30 Rock isn't really a hit. It's never been very highly rated. But NBC's ratings have been in the dumps for the last several years, so even if it's modestly rated, it's still good enough for NBC. And prior to this year, it had won the Emmy for best comedy for three years in a row, so it was getting critical acclaim even if it wasn't getting a ton of viewers.

As for CBS, its viewers generally skew older. CBS wins the crown every year for total viewers, but they rarely win the crown for most viewers in the key demographic of adults 18-49. This is because a larger percentage of their viewers are over the age of 49 than other networks. Also, given the types of shows that are on CBS (mostly procedurals and laugh-track sitcoms), its viewers are not generally viewed as very sophisticated.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

DevdogAZ said:


> The season premiere of 30 Rock had 5.85 million viewers and a 2.6 rating (compared to SMDS's 12.5 million viewers and 4.0 rating). I predict that ths week, 30 Rock will be in the 2.5 rangs and SMDS will be in the 3.3 range. 30 Rock isn't really a hit. It's never been very highly rated. But NBC's ratings have been in the dumps for the last several years, so even if it's modestly rated, it's still good enough for NBC. And prior to this year, it had won the Emmy for best comedy for three years in a row, so it was getting critical acclaim even if it wasn't getting a ton of viewers.
> 
> As for CBS, its viewers generally skew older. CBS wins the crown every year for total viewers, but they rarely win the crown for most viewers in the key demographic of adults 18-49. This is because a larger percentage of their viewers are over the age of 49 than other networks. Also, given the types of shows that are on CBS (mostly procedurals and laugh-track sitcoms), its viewers are not generally viewed as very sophisticated.


Oh noes! I was afraid of that (re: CBS). LOL !!!! Along with USA, TNT, Syfy and BBC, most of our shows were on CBS . On our single-tuner, 30hr, non-tivo dvr that we had before we bought our tivo last month, we always recorded Medium, The Mentalist, NCIS, NCIS LA, Survivor, and Big Brother.

For 30 Rock, it must have been the Emmy's that made me think it was a hit. I didn't know it had only a moderate amount of viewers.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> The season premiere of 30 Rock had 5.85 million viewers and a 2.6 rating (compared to SMDS's 12.5 million viewers and 4.0 rating). I predict that ths week, 30 Rock will be in the 2.5 rangs and SMDS will be in the 3.3 range. 30 Rock isn't really a hit. It's never been very highly rated. But NBC's ratings have been in the dumps for the last several years, so even if it's modestly rated, it's still good enough for NBC. And prior to this year, it had won the Emmy for best comedy for three years in a row, so it was getting critical acclaim even if it wasn't getting a ton of viewers.
> 
> As for CBS, its viewers generally skew older. CBS wins the crown every year for total viewers, but they rarely win the crown for most viewers in the key demographic of adults 18-49. This is because a larger percentage of their viewers are over the age of 49 than other networks. Also, given the types of shows that are on CBS (mostly procedurals and laugh-track sitcoms), its viewers are not generally viewed as very sophisticated.


In a year and a bit I'll be moving out of that key demographic. Should I start checking what the CBS lineup is? Other than the occasional Letterman monologue I haven't watched a CBS show in many, many years. My wife used to like Chicago Hope -- I think that's how far you have to go with either one of us watching The Eye.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Now I feel old.  I'm only 34, but the majority of the shows I watch are on CBS and have been for years.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

No way will $#*! My Dad Says get cancelled.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

laria said:


> Now I feel old.  I'm only 34, but the majority of the shows I watch are on CBS and have been for years.


 Made me feel old too! Most of the shows we watch are on Syfy, USA, TNT, BBC, and CBS. And I'm also under 49


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

I watched the pilot episode of 30 Rock and did not like it so I have never watched the show. Someone was raving about Tina Fey. I did not know who she was until she started playing Sara Palin for the 2008 election.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I love 30 Rock! But I don't watch a lot of comedies as they are running... I tend to watch them streaming from Netflix later on. I guess I'm part of the problem.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

CBS - not just for old people!!

LOL ~~

 :up:  Hey, CBS won premiere week in all categories, including the 18-49 age group:



> *NBC Ties For #2 In Adults 18-49 For Premiere Week With The Biggest Year-To-Year Gains Among The Major Nets*
> By Bill Gorman
>  September 28, 2010
> 
> ...


Now I don't feel so old


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Yes, as I said, CBS almost always wins in total viewers, but hasn't won the season-long crown for 18-49 in several years. It may win individual weeks, or even several weeks in a row. It just depends on what else is on. For example, FOX is more competitive in the spring when American Idol starts. 

But another part of the knock on CBS is that most of its shows are so formulaic. The various CSIs, the NCISs, the traditional laugh-track sitcoms. Even the shows that aren't part of one of their franchises are by-the-book procedurals (Criminal Minds, The Mentalist, Blue Bloods, The Defenders, etc.). It's just so uninventive.


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, as I said, CBS almost always wins in total viewers, but hasn't won the season-long crown for 18-49 in several years. It may win individual weeks, or even several weeks in a row. It just depends on what else is on. For example, FOX is more competitive in the spring when American Idol starts.
> 
> But another part of the knock on CBS is that most of its shows are so formulaic. The various CSIs, the NCISs, the traditional laugh-track sitcoms. Even the shows that aren't part of one of their franchises are by-the-book procedurals (Criminal Minds, The Mentalist, Blue Bloods, The Defenders, etc.). It's just so uninventive.


Who won the season long crown in each of the groups (18-49, 25-54, and all ages) last year, dev?


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

wisny said:


> Who won the season long crown in each of the groups (18-49, 25-54, and all ages) last year, dev?


Never mind, I found it 










http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/05/2...time-network-ratings-for-2009-10-season/52692


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

I'm under 49 and I'm still a CBS junkie. But I like procedurals, as long as they are "good" procedurals.

As to the next show to get the axe, look for it to be Running Wilde. Last night's ep only got about half the viewers that Raising Hope did. And it lost a good chunk of the demo as well. FOX just can't buy a break with live-action comedy.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

sieglinde said:


> I watched the pilot episode of 30 Rock and did not like it so I have never watched the show. Someone was raving about Tina Fey. I did not know who she was until she started playing Sara Palin for the 2008 election.


I've mentioned this a billion times, but I did NOT care for the 30 Rock pilot. I almost junked it.

I am glad I didn't. It's now my favorite show.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> The latest TV Guide points out a problem with the show; a considerable number of DVRs don't have the punctuation marks needed to do a search on the show, so some people are having problems recording it if they don't know when it's on.
> 
> -- Don


Boooogus, at least for those of us with real DVRs. You can find it on a TiVo with just "My Dad," (if you didn't use New Fall Shows in the Guru Guide ) For the others, I'm impressed that they don't crash.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

MickeS said:


> No way will $#*! My Dad Says get cancelled.


The latest TV Guide points out a problem with the show; a considerable number of DVRs don't have the punctuation marks needed to do a search on the show, so some people are having problems recording it if they don't know when it's on.



SorenTodd said:


> As to the next show to get the axe, look for it to be Running Wilde. Last night's ep only got about half the viewers that Raising Hope did. And it lost a good chunk of the demo as well. FOX just can't buy a break with live-action comedy.


Running Wilde has one thing going for it - I don't think Fox has any half-hour show ready to take its place (they do have Mixed Signals, but that's not supposed to be ready until March), and they probably don't want to get rid of Raising Hope as well. I suppose there's always reruns of Family Guy...

-- Don


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, as I said, CBS almost always wins in total viewers, but hasn't won the season-long crown for 18-49 in several years.


The kids in charge of programming are convinced noone over 49 knows anything or spends any money. Unless you fall in the coveted "demo" group you really don't exist for the network suits.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jon J said:


> The kids in charge of programming are convinced noone over 49 knows anything or spends any money. Unless you fall in the coveted "demo" group you really don't exist for the network suits.


Dang, I forgot...I only have six weeks to spend all my money! And write everything down.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jon J said:


> The kids in charge of programming are convinced noone over 49 knows anything or spends any money. Unless you fall in the coveted "demo" group you really don't exist for the network suits.


Sorry, but that's not the reason the advertisers covet the 18-49 demographic. It's because their research has shown that those over 50 are less likely to be influenced by advertising.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Sorry, but that's not the reason the advertisers covet the 18-49 demographic. It's because their research has shown that those over 50 are less likely to be influenced by advertising.


Yeah, we finally figured out that drinking a certain beer won't get you laid.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Sorry, but that's not the reason the advertisers covet the 18-49 demographic. It's because their research has shown that those over 50 are less likely to be influenced by advertising.


Their research is wrong.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jon J said:


> Their research is wrong.


Not likely. It might not be accurate for individuals like you, but for the group as a whole, they're less likely to be influenced than are the younger folks. Are you telling me that the average 55 year-old guy, who has been drinking Brand A beer for 30 years, would suddenly want to try Brand B because he saw an ad for Brand B with pretty girls? Or that the average 55 year-old woman who has been using the same brand of make-up for 30 years, would suddenly want to change to a new brand because some young starlet with clear skin did an ad for another brand?

Basically, by not targeting those over 50, the advertisers are acknowledging that those over 50 are too smart to be manipulated by their ads. If I were you, I don't think I'd be so quick to dismiss that notion.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

David Ortiz said:


> Lone Star canceled
> 
> http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/09/28/lone-star-canceled/


Called it. Post #23


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Yeah, we finally figured out that drinking a certain beer won't get you laid.


You're drinking the wrong beer.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Basically, by not targeting those over 50, the advertisers are acknowledging that those over 50 are too smart to be manipulated by their ads.


Or too stubborn, or too stuck in their ways.

But your point still holds.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Called it. Post #23


uh, Post #2 of this thread  

While some persons (check the replies to that original post) were saying that FOX is more patient and forgiving than they had the old rep for, that Zebra hadn't changed its stripes that much...

NBC has been a bit more patient, and granted, my original reply didn't name a specific show, but I certainly nailed the network with that original reply. FOX may be a little more patient than they were, and yeah, they gave the benefit to a few shows along the way, but they have also been quick to pull the plug on others.

I don't really blame them for not wanting to concede Monday nights to their competition, but then again they have to know their competition on that night is killer and unless they can come up with some killer program of their own I don't care what they put there as the other nets will kill them with comedies, reality TV and the like.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Not likely. It might not be accurate for individuals like you, but for the group as a whole, they're less likely to be influenced than are the younger folks. Are you telling me that the average 55 year-old guy, who has been drinking Brand A beer for 30 years, would suddenly want to try Brand B because he saw an ad for Brand B with pretty girls? Or that the average 55 year-old woman who has been using the same brand of make-up for 30 years, would suddenly want to change to a new brand because some young starlet with clear skin did an ad for another brand?
> 
> Basically, by not targeting those over 50, the advertisers are acknowledging that those over 50 are too smart to be manipulated by their ads. If I were you, I don't think I'd be so quick to dismiss that notion.


While that's still true, I think it's somewhat less so than other generations. The over 50s today are probably more influenced by TV than 20 years ago, and with so many new products, especially in the electronics realm over the last 20 years, I think that advertising, especially on less established products can still influence an over 50. That 55 year old woman might change make up if that new makeup makes her look 40!! On established products, beer is a good example, you're not going to get the older folks to switch, but on newer stuff, why not? I just think that advertisers have to narrow their focus on each age group. I'm sure advertising on CBS is a lot different than say Fox. Remember, the boomers are part of one of the largest population growths of the last 100 years. There's a LOT of them out there


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Looking at the trends from the first week, NBC has to feel encouraged by the results.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or too stubborn, or too stuck in their ways.
> 
> But your point still holds.


IOW, the older you are the less fickle. You've made your point very clear, Rob.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Ok, time to come back (as an article at Zap2It has...) and ask the question, what's next?

Whats the current predictions on the next show to get dropped from one of the net's schedules?


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## wisny (Sep 6, 2010)

tvbythenumbers says Outlaw, The Good Guys, and The Whole Truth are likely to be next:

http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/renewcancel-index


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

terpfan1980 said:


> Ok, time to come back (as an article at Zap2It has...) and ask the question, what's next?
> 
> Whats the current predictions on the next show to get dropped from one of the net's schedules?


My Generation was my original pick, and now it's my pick for death #2. It only pulled a 1.1 last night, and that's atrocious for a Thursday night. It's pretty embarassing when ABC loses to The CW.

Also, on the very short list are The Whole Truth, Outlaw, and The Good Guys.


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

> My Generation was my original pick, and now it's my pick for death #2. It only pulled a 1.1 last night, and that's atrocious for a Thursday night. It's pretty embarassing when ABC loses to The CW.


Good pick, because I'm hearing that ABC has just axed the show.


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

SorenTodd said:


> Good pick, because I'm hearing that ABC has just axed the show.


Yep looks like ABC won't be "talking about My Generation" anymore. I have to say good riddance. I watched it for 20 minutes before turning it off. The only reason I watch it was to try out the Ipad app that ABC made to go along with it. Now the app is useless.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Yeah, we finally figured out that drinking a certain beer won't get you laid.


We can tell that Katy Perry can't sing in tune.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Michael S said:


> Yep looks like ABC won't be "talking about My Generation" anymore. I have to say good riddance. I watched it for 20 minutes before turning it off. The only reason I watch it was to try out the Ipad app that ABC made to go along with it. Now the app is useless.


Damn.

Have second episode on my TiVo. Was planning on watching it tonight. I suppose now I should bother.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

wisny said:


> tvbythenumbers says Outlaw, The Good Guys, and The Whole Truth are likely to be next:
> 
> http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/renewcancel-index


I hope not, I love The Good Guys!


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Man, it's a hard time to come out with a TV show... I don't know if it's just that I'm paying attention now but it seems like so many more shows are getting canned after two or three episodes... it's like either you're a hit out of the gate, or you're done--no room to grow or build in any way. I actually feel bad for the guy who created Lone Star...apparently it was his first show so it must really suck to go from nobody, to having one of the most critically loved and anticipated shows of the season, to being the first cancellation. That's gotta suck.

I was just looking at tvbythenumbers, and and not thrilled about this little bit:


> Has Chuck finally ended its multi-season tightrope walk along the NBC Renew / Cancel line? It was the lowest rated non-Friday scripted show on NBC last week. Unless it can move up in the coming weeks, it's finally headed for cancellation.


I guess I'm not surprised--I didn't see any reason why the show would magically gain a couple of million viewers in it's fourth season. If people weren't into it before, they're not gonna be into it now (not by the millions, anyway). Sucks too, since I just discovered the show a few months ago. I'm encouraged by the fact that Josh Schwartz and co. have an end prepared if that does happen, so at least the show will get to close out the right way.


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## Haps (Nov 30, 2001)

I can't say I've got huge picks for this. *&#37;*( my dad says is pretty high on my list. I just don't see how it can really make a good sitcom. And Bill Shatner come on.

But outsourced was kind of a surprise. I'll give it a few more. There is potential there. May not pan out but you never know.


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

laria said:


> I hope not, I love The Good Guys!


Yeah me too. Has become a very good show. Would hate to see it go.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I think My Generation is gone - I have no upcoming shows on my SP...


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

nyny523 said:


> I think My Generation is gone - I have no upcoming shows on my SP...


It is. Got cancelled.


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## sieglinde (Aug 11, 2002)

My Generation has left. I wouldn't be surprized if Bleep My Dad Said left.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I saw that our Fox station still has a showing of "Lone Star" on the schedule, although that could be preempted with something else.

I didn't mind culling a few of the too many shows off my SP and NP list.

C'mon. That Glee clone "Hellcats" is going to make the cut? Oh. I know. Young demographic.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

My TiVo recorded "Lone Star" last night. Surprised me, because I could have sworn it dropped off the To Do list a few days ago.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

sieglinde said:


> I wouldn't be surprized if Bleep My Dad Said left.


I would. It got great ratings the first week, and still pretty good ratings the second week. As far as new shows go, it's one of the hits. It's not going anywhere. 


jsmeeker said:


> My TiVo recorded "Lone Star" last night. Surprised me, because I could have sworn it dropped off the To Do list a few days ago.


Are you sure it was actually Lone Star? Or did your TiVo just not get any updated guide data after FOX changed their schedule and put something else in that late Saturday slot?


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> My TiVo recorded "Lone Star" last night. Surprised me, because I could have sworn it dropped off the To Do list a few days ago.


I thought I saw Lone Star in the guide last night late, like 11pm EST or maybe even 12pm. A strange time for sure.

I've got so many new shows saved up that I haven't watched that I'd like some of them to get canceled just so I don't invest time just so they get canceled later.

Frank


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Yeah.. I was correct a few days ago that the Sat 11pm airing of "Lone Star" *WAS* removed at one point (replaced with "To Be Scheduled").. But then it came back again. I recorded the 2nd episode too.. and will likely eventually watch it. THIS Saturday is still TBS.

So far, I think I'm "keeping" 2 hour long shows ("The Event" and "The Whole Truth"), and a couple of sitcoms ("[email protected]$# my dad says", "Outsourced", and 2 on Fox I can't remember the names of..). This was a result of purposefully trying to not get attached to many new shows.. I apparently am succeeding, as I'm gaining space on my Tivos as I watch stuff already recorded.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Are you sure it was actually Lone Star? Or did your TiVo just not get any updated guide data after FOX changed their schedule and put something else in that late Saturday slot?


Yeah. It's Lone Star. I actually played just a bit of it to check it out since I was really surprised to see it.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

_Raising Hope_ is the winner! Per Ausiello, it got a full 22-ep order today.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Neenahboy said:


> _Raising Hope_ is the winner! Per Ausiello, it got a full 22-ep order today.


3 episodes and it already get picks up. that's great news. it really is a great show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

mattack said:


> Yeah.. I was correct a few days ago that the Sat 11pm airing of "Lone Star" *WAS* removed at one point (replaced with "To Be Scheduled").. But then it came back again. I recorded the 2nd episode too.. and will likely eventually watch it. THIS Saturday is still TBS.
> 
> So far, I think I'm "keeping" 2 hour long shows ("The Event" and "The Whole Truth"), and a couple of sitcoms ("[email protected]$# my dad says", "Outsourced", and 2 on Fox I can't remember the names of..). This was a result of purposefully trying to not get attached to many new shows.. I apparently am succeeding, as I'm gaining space on my Tivos as I watch stuff already recorded.


Don't get too attached to The Whole Truth. It's not going to be around long.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

I saw an article today (TVWeek or somewhere similar) noting that only one new show is cracking the top 20 (Hawaii 5-O). It seems, yet again, that the network brass just can't figure out what viewers want or if they do figure it out they can't figure out when to schedule it so that viewers will give that show a look instead of tuning into something else.


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

I liked Outsourced and hope it sticks around. It got me to laugh out loud at the moment when the quiet woman screamed at the deer. 

The Event just isn't pulling me after viewing the pilot. It's still being recorded but the fact that we haven't watched subsequent episodes yet isn't good.

I had high hopes for Hawaii Five-O but was left cold after the pilot. I couldn't get past the lead being a vampire. 
(Moonlight)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

voripteth said:


> I had high hopes for Hawaii Five-O but was left cold after the pilot. I couldn't get past the lead being a vampire.


Yeah, I just hate these new-fangled shows where vampires can walk around in daylight.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

NBC shut down production on Outlaw after 8 episodes produced, according to TV By The Numbers. Hasn't been pulled from the schedule though (yet).


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

voripteth said:


> I liked Outsourced and hope it sticks around. It got me to laugh out loud at the moment when the quiet woman screamed at the deer.


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

My first thought was that Outsourced would get the Kath & Kim treatment and last one season, then be cancelled not renewed, but they have to pull something from the Thursday schedule when Parks & Recreation is ready to return, and Outsourced is getting the worst numbers. (Pretty much the only way Outsourced lasts until at least April is if they cut The Biggest Loser to 90 minutes and air Outsourced on Tuesday nights...then again, isn't that what happened to Kath & Kim?)

-- Don


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
> 
> My first thought was that Outsourced would get the Kath & Kim treatment and last one season, then be cancelled not renewed, but they have to pull something from the Thursday schedule when Parks & Recreation is ready to return, and Outsourced is getting the worst numbers. (Pretty much the only way Outsourced lasts until at least April is if they cut The Biggest Loser to 90 minutes and air Outsourced on Tuesday nights...then again, isn't that what happened to Kath & Kim?)
> 
> -- Don


I don't think there's any chance they cut Biggest Loser short. It's one of NBC's best-rated programs and it provides a solid lead-in to Parenthood. Cut TBL short and stick Outsourced at 9:30 and you lose that audience for Parenthood. Cut TBL short and stick Outsourced at 8:00 and you never get the viewers to start the night on NBC in the first place.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

voripteth said:


> The Event just isn't pulling me after viewing the pilot. It's still being recorded but the fact that we haven't watched subsequent episodes yet isn't good.


You should give the second and third episodes a try. A lot of us think they are much better than the pilot.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

terpfan1980 said:


> I saw an article today (TVWeek or somewhere similar) noting that only one new show is cracking the top 20 (Hawaii 5-O). It seems, yet again, that the network brass just can't figure out what viewers want or if they do figure it out they can't figure out when to schedule it so that viewers will give that show a look instead of tuning into something else.


They could simply show a few more DWTS or AI clones. Guaranteed ratings winner and cheap to produce. Unfortunately, for many of us who hate the genre, that's where we will head until the fad subsides.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> NBC shut down production on Outlaw after 8 episodes produced, according to TV By The Numbers. Hasn't been pulled from the schedule though (yet).


From what I read, they intend to show the remaining episodes (5 more?). If by some miracle the ratings get better, they will resume production. If not, bubkes. Adios.

IOW, it's dead.


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## SorenTodd (May 26, 2009)

And it is dead, NBC just axed the show. They say they will burn off the remaining episodes of Outlaw on Saturdays, but I'm not going to hold my breath.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Jimmy Smits isn't doing too good as a "leading man", is he?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MickeS said:


> Jimmy Smits isn't doing too good as a "leading man", is he?


Following in David Caruso's footsteps, I guess...


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> You should give the second and third episodes a try. A lot of us think they are much better than the pilot.


Good. As they are piling up on my Tivo because I've not watched any of them yet and none of NCIS this season either. I need more free time.


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