# Tivo blame Sky for their previous withdrawal from the UK



## AndrewDucker (Aug 24, 2002)

http://www.techradar.com/news/television/tivo-sky-partnership-caused-uk-flop-674341


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well, I'm sure everyone on here had already figured out when it happened, but it's nice to know we were right


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

They have already made a slight error in giving total UK exclusivity to VirginMedia IMO

That blocks any Freeview/Freesat TiVo - unless VirginMedia decide to branch out into those markets!


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Like the article says, Virgin fit their business model. There are a lot of cities in the US though where if you want to choose to use Tivo, you need to run it alongside regular cable service. I know San Diego fairly well, and there the main providers are Time Warner - who have developed their own PVR software (on the same Scientific Atlanta boxes used by VM) - and ATT, who have IP delivery on proprietory software.

If they can persuade Virgin to market the new Premiere box as an IP based solution, then that may be the best those of us outside VM land[1] can hope for.

[1] Irritatingly (in some ways, as I dislike VM even more than I dislike Sky), there is cable where I live but it never got to this part of town, back in the days of Nynex...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Trinitron said:


> ...there is cable where I live but it never got to this part of town...


I know that VM are now actively looking to fill-in these missing areas. Try emailing them about it; cablemystreetATvirgimediaDOTCOM.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

mikerr said:


> They have already made a slight error in giving total UK exclusivity to VirginMedia IMO
> 
> That blocks any Freeview/Freesat TiVo - unless VirginMedia decide to branch out into those markets!


As a Virgin ADSL customer I was offered a Virgin branded Freeview box when I signed up. It seems to be MIA on their site at the moment though.

It's not a massive leap as Tivo have a working Freeview demonstrator & virgin have plenty of voice and ADSL customers to upsell to. I can't see any reason why Virgin with Tivo wouldn't pursue this route in future, particularly as the wholesale BT DSL products improve in speed making the paid VOD a sensible option outside their fibre networks.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

cwaring said:


> I know that VM are now actively looking to fill-in these missing areas. Try emailing them about it; cablemystreetATvirgimediaDOTCOM.


I did that and even though I already have analogue cable in my property they still aren't in a position to upgrade it to the digital service (despite me already receiving the digital signals...) so I honestly wouldn't recommend anyone holding their breath if they don't have the physical cables in place... 

It's frustrating to see Virgin investing in 100MB and 200MB even 1GB broadband over their fibre network yet their service is available to just a fraction of the population.


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## davisa (Feb 19, 2002)

Milhouse said:


> It's frustrating to see Virgin investing in 100MB and 200MB even 1GB broadband over their fibre network yet their service is available to just a fraction of the population.


Not as frustrating as their attitude of large headline figures, without the infrastructure to support it for any length of time. Even on 20mbps you'll be STM'd after about 20 minutes. A bit useless for HiDef downloads...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Milhouse said:


> It's frustrating to see Virgin investing in 100MB and 200MB even 1GB broadband over their fibre network yet their service is available to just a fraction of the population.


What fraction? I'm sure it's over 50% but will clarify that now.

*ETA*: What %age would you say this was? 




davisa said:


> Not as frustrating as their attitude of large headline figures, without the infrastructure to support it for any length of time. Even on 20mbps you'll be STM'd after about 20 minutes. A bit useless for HiDef downloads...


Firstly, who says it's purely an infrastructure problem?

Secondly, as a matter of (genuine) interest, exactly what download speed is required for HD streaming if 5Mbits/s (the 20mb STM'd speed) is not high enough? (The UK average is 4.1, btw.)

If that is the case then it doesn't say a lot for ADSL users who will only get around 50% of their headline speed _all the time_ 

Both figures from this report: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/28/ofcom_speeds/


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## bigwold (Jun 4, 2003)

cwaring said:


> What fraction?


As a fraction it looks like 1/4 to me or as a percentage about 25%


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

But expressed as a percentage of the population Virgin get to much more than 25&#37;


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## bigwold (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm sure you're right but I'm in pedant mode


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

bigwold said:


> I'm sure you're right but I'm in pedant mode


Either that or you do not live in an area served by cable.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

bigwold said:


> I'm sure you're right but I'm in pedant mode


<pedant mode> If you're sure he's right then that means you're in argumentative mode, surely?</pedant mode>


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

"Nothing is as peevish and pedantic as men's judgements of one another."Desiderius Erasmus


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

cwaring said:


> What fraction? I'm sure it's over 50% but will clarify that now.
> 
> *ETA*: What %age would you say this was?


I can't actually see the image right now as I'm at work and it's blocked but what I will say is that I live in a "Virgin Cable" area (I have the physical cables in my property, and until I switched to Sky could receive the analogue TV service) but I'm not allowed to receive the digital TV or broadband services, so how accurate is this "coverage map" (assuming that's what you are asking me to look at)?

Unless this "vmcabledareas.jpg" is a highly detailed map I bet it suggests there are many areas in the UK capable of receiving the digital service when in fact the opposite is true, as Telewest/NTL now Virgin have done feck all to expand and upgrade their old analogue network over the last 5-10 years.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Milhouse said:


> Unless this "vmcabledareas.jpg" is a highly detailed map I bet it suggests there are many areas in the UK capable of receiving the digital service when in fact the opposite is true, as Telewest/NTL now Virgin have done feck all to expand and upgrade their old analogue network over the last 5-10 years.


Indeed. I live in Oxford, listed as franchise 122 on this map. I cannot get cable, they stopped laying them about 100m away from where I live.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Well all I know is I asked for an up-to-date area map and that's what I got  It's titled "DTI Franchise Area" which, I suspect, does indeed refer to their digital service.



Milhouse said:


> Unless this "vmcabledareas.jpg" is a highly detailed map...


Not that detailed. Postcode areas only.


> ..I bet it suggests there are many areas in the UK capable of receiving the digital service when in fact the opposite is true, as Telewest/NTL now Virgin have done feck all to expand and upgrade their old analogue network over the last 5-10 years.


Well as far as I know they are, in fact, in the process of upgrading all areas to digital. I _think_ it was _supposed_ to be done by the end of last year but I'm not 100% sure on that.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Having paid well over &#163;3000 to have a section of power cable replaced I can understand the cost of laying new cable, even for short distances would be prohibitive. That would cost 100 months at &#163;30 a month with no other customer costs to pay back and we're talking about literally across the road.

IIRC the original cable franchises (before TeleWest and NTL) were more or less bankrupted by their infrastructure installation costs. Then they were bought out by TW and NTL who in turn ran into major financial difficulties until they swapped debt for equity with the banks to enable a consolidation into Virgin Media. It's hardly surprising that Virgin aren't falling over themselves to add new cable when they haven't fully exploited their existing installed catchment.

Millhouse's experience is baffling though.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Well as far as I know they are, in fact, in the process of upgrading all areas to digital. I _think_ it was _supposed_ to be done by the end of last year but I'm not 100% sure on that.


I'm sure they are upgrading all areas - eventually. Or at least would dearly like to.

I have enquired with Virgin regarding my situation and the official response is they don't know when my area will be upgraded (ie. they have no plans in place for my area). Certainly not in the next 12 months anyway.


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## davisa (Feb 19, 2002)

cwaring said:


> Firstly, who says it's purely an infrastructure problem?
> 
> Secondly, as a matter of (genuine) interest, exactly what download speed is required for HD streaming if 5Mbits/s (the 20mb STM'd speed) is not high enough? (The UK average is 4.1, btw.)


AppleTV HD downloads. I now cannot get home, choose a movie and download/watch it that night, due to STM.

I don't mind download caps or throttles. What I do mind in retrospectively introduced ones, and (IMHO) sneaky advertising failing to mention the limits.

It is a shame, because cable really is quite good. It is just their business practices I don't like!


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## TonyW (Mar 26, 2001)

cwaring said:


> What fraction? I'm sure it's over 50% but will clarify that now.
> 
> *ETA*: What %age would you say this was?


The last 4 houses I have lived in have been in Virgin franchised London boroughs. None have had cables in the street I do/have lived in and I have never been able to receive it!


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## davisa (Feb 19, 2002)

TonyW said:


> The last 4 houses I have lived in have been in Virgin franchised London boroughs. None have had cables in the street I do/have lived in and I have never been able to receive it!


I can beat that 

My parents road has just been 'cabled' in so much as they got a letter explaining the work that would be taking place out in the street. A few weeks later the builders duly came and did their stuff. A few weeks after that they got another letter "Virgin Media apologises that cable services cannot now be provided in this road, due to the cable not being laid as expected" (or words to that effect). Yes, they dug up the road and put it all back again, forgetting to actually lay the cable!!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

davisa said:


> Yes, they dug up the road and put it all back again, forgetting to actually lay the cable!!


Presumably services other than Virgin Cable were also being laid in the trench and Virgin's contractors failed to show up with their cables at the relevant time? I can't see why they would dig a trench that nothing at all went in to.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Or possibly there was some other issue which meant they couldn't complete the job.


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