# The Ultimate TiVo (or any DVR)



## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

Coming soon in a *BIG* way.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

September 11, 12 and 13!


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Is this a sale or a new Tivo or an advertisement for an appe(a)rance at a trade show?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Looks to me like TiVo is planning a big announcement at Cedia this year. TiVo likes the press they get at Cedia and actually won Best for Cedia award last year for the Roamio line.

Since the Roamio is new, we can't expect a new box - so something else "Big" must be on the horizon. Since the spring release just came out, I wouldn't expect a simple software update - so what would you consider big enough for a "Big" announcement?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

"SO BIG it's almost inappropriate"

Hmmm, let me guess. A Roamio Pro with a 5TB hard drive? If they charge another $200 for that, it would be "almost inappropriate".


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I suppose it could be a new box with more tuners / larger hard drive. I am just not sure there is enough of the market for an Ultra Pro model to make it viable.

I guess I wasn't thinking of the "big" in such a literal way.


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

nDVR with as-much-as-you-want-to-pay-for storage?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

mrizzo80 said:


> nDVR with as-much-as-you-want-to-pay-for storage?


That actually wouldn't surprise me...


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

Checking out http://custom.tivo.com it appears to be a push for system intigrators/resellers as they are pushing their multi room, single multi-tuner TiVo....



> See why integrators choose to install TiVo in homesincluding their own.


My guess it's a bigger move into third party MSO type TiVo integrations.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

eboydog said:


> My guess it's a bigger move into third party MSO type TiVo integrations.


Yeah, I saw that when I followed the link - but that would be pretty week for a "BIG" announcement! 

Celdia is the Custom Installers trade show - I suppose it could be that... I think the link simply references installers because of the show base, not in relation to the announcement.

A lot of home theater technology companies use Cedia to announce new products. Wishful thinking? Maybe...


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

What do you know, davisadm? 

September lines up with the android streaming rumor if they manage to hold their schedule, which they might. Aside from portable android support, Tivo may have a larger "anywhere" strategy in the works. (PC? Roku? Fire TV?) But that might be too much, too soon.

There haven't been too many other rumors floating around. An HDD increase is an obvious guess, but would be easy enough to do without triggering the rumor mills. (til now, of course.)

Basking in Roamio's glow, Tivo's been quiet on the product front for the last year. I kinda like that something's stirring again.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

UHD (4K) support?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Sixto said:


> UHD (4K) support?


No content, no need...


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

My guesses / hopes?

- Android Stream
- PC TiVo desktop / streaming client
- Amazon Streaming App (wishful thinking)

It could also be a more flushed out version of the network DVR they demoed earlier this year.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/07/tivo-network-dvr-prototype/


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bradleys said:


> No content, no need...


Netflix has some 4K content.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Netflix has some 4K content.


Netflix's 4K streams are only viewable on 2014 4K TVs that include a built-in H.265/HEVC decoder.

So let me change my response to: Very little content with a very small audience and very little improvement. 4K is the new 3D

I am thinking this announcement will NOT include:

- A change to the base TiVo software, as we just received a major update.
- New hardware, Roamio is still too new for an update

It could also be a BIG nothing - as ebodog insinuated, it could simply be some profit sharing scheme for installers... I am going out on a limb thinking it is something more.


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## bunjicat (Jan 14, 2012)

bradleys said:


> My guesses / hopes?
> 
> - Android Stream
> - PC TiVo desktop / streaming client
> ...


More like Tivo no where, but your home. The copy protection has gotten ridiculous. Stream is useless because everything is flagged.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Talk to your cable company - FIOS restricts nothing...

I do think TiVo should look at options to work around the content flag... Maybe with a checkout scenerio?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

bradleys said:


> Netflix's 4K streams are only viewable on 2014 4K TVs that include a built-in H.265/HEVC decoder.
> 
> So let me change my response to: Very little content with a very small audience and very little improvement. 4K is the new 3D


What is Netflix *super HD *that I get using my Roamio ??


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Super HD is Netflix's version of 1080p
Ultra HD is Netflix's version of 4K

Netflix's Ultra HD 4K streams are only viewable on 2014 4K TVs that include a built-in H.265/HEVC decoder. 

If there was really any content - blue-ray and such, I would consider a 4k projector for my 110" media room screen, but I wouldn't waste my money on anything less than 60" / 70". And since you can't see the difference on a reasonable sized screen, 50" or smaller, it will never hit critical mass. Content will not be available, no content means no device sales, no device sales means another dead product. 3D all over again.

CE manufacturers are trying to recapture the HDTV craze, and they will try to push any product down your throat to find that market - don't be a lemming, pay for what brings value not for what some marketing guy tells you to buy.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

bradleys said:


> Super HD is Netflix's version of 1080p
> Ultra HD is Netflix's version of 4K
> 
> Netflix's Ultra HD 4K streams are only viewable on 2014 4K TVs that include a built-in H.265/HEVC decoder.
> ...


You make some good points, but I wouldn't say "never" for 4K. The problem with 3D is that it can't really be added retroactively. Some equipment can do a crappy simulation of it, but real 3D must be captured when the content is first created. The perfect vehicle for 3D is computer-generated video like Avatar or new animated features. There will never be (good) 3D versions of Chinatown, Citizen Kane, The Godfather, etc, because it's impossible to add the second viewpoint necessary for stereoscopic viewing. OTOH, good film stock probably can be used to create 4K versions of great movies from the past, once 4K TVs and some kind of ultra Blu-ray are available.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bradleys said:


> My guesses / hopes? - Android Stream - PC TiVo desktop / streaming client - Amazon Streaming App (wishful thinking) It could also be a more flushed out version of the network DVR they demoed earlier this year. http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/07/tivo-network-dvr-prototype/


I'm pretty sure it's going to be something like this, Roku clients, etc.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

If I understood the use case, the Cloud DVR was really focused at smaller cable companies - not retail.

You could very well be correct, but I am hoping for something we have been waiting for. I know a huge number of people on this board have been waiting on Android Stream - and I am pretty sure that will hit this fall. But I am really hopeful for a new PC TiVo Deskstop / streaming client.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Are the images in this thread missing for everyone else? in the first couple of messages, that is..


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Looks like they were pulled down... Very interesting - almost like a conspiracy! 

I wonder what to read into it...


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

bradleys said:


> Looks like they were pulled down... Very interesting - almost like a conspiracy!
> 
> I wonder what to read into it...


I have no idea what happened to the images. They have been uploaded again.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Super HD is Netflix's version of 1080p
> Ultra HD is Netflix's version of 4K
> 
> Netflix's Ultra HD 4K streams are only viewable on 2014 4K TVs that include a built-in H.265/HEVC decoder.
> ...


Ultra HD or UHD is officially what the format is called. It is not the Netflix version. It is the consumer format of so called 4K. UHD is actually below 4K resolution.

Whatever TiVo does announce, it will probably be two to three years until it's available. UNless it is something simple like a larger hard drive. If they had a 5TB Roamio I just might need to sell my current Roamio Pro and get it.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

> Whatever TiVo does announce, it will probably be two to three years until it's available.


Possibly - depends what it is...

A tertiary product like Amazon Prime, Android Stream or PC Stream could be delivered immediately (if ready)

A product change that involves the TiVo itself - I agree with you completely.


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## uw69 (Jan 25, 2001)

maybe cloud storage option :up:


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

i just got a roamio so hope it isn't a newer cheaper model


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Well, my ultimate DVR would let me easily access all my very own media instead of trying to force me to use a "cloud" source, but that's why I have my computer hooked to my TV .


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## MHunter1 (Oct 11, 2007)

uw69 said:


> maybe cloud storage option


Yes, something requiring a neverending subscription so those of us with PLS become paying customers again. 2TB is enough for my household, but if my cableco partnered with TiVo for cloud-based tuners for scheduling unlimited overlapping programs (and 1-minute padding on everything), that would be compelling.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-08/new-larger-capacity-tivo-dvr-to-launch-at-cedia/


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Dave seems to have some rumors... Nothing that really interests me, but I can see the high end installers apreciating it.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-08/new-larger-capacity-tivo-dvr-to-launch-at-cedia/

I will be interested in seeing how they approach the additional storage - and if a software update will make it easier to upgrade to 4tb + for us...

Just out of curiosity, has anyone put a clean 4tb drive in a Roamio since the last update?


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't see this as having any significance in the market unless there's OTA capability. They could drive more sales in the OTA community with a high end alternative. Just integrate the components of a Roamio Basic into the box of a Roamio Pro so there are 6 tuners dedicated to digital cable plus 4 tuners dedicated to OTA, all sharing a 4 TB hard drive. That gives customers the freedom and leverage to subscribe and unsubscribe to digital cable at will without their box becoming an expensive paper-weight. I know that capability would alleviate my risks and fears for spending a ton of money on a high-end digital cable TiVo box. That would push me over the edge to buy one and I'd bet others would buy one too.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

series5orpremier said:


> I don't see this as having any significance in the market unless there's OTA capability.


This going to be an extremely high end model. That market mostly wouldn't benefit from OTA. Would be nice to see a Roamio for the masses that retains "roam"ing capabilities and the flexibility of prior models that do cable and OTA. But it won't be this one and I haven't heard anything on that front.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

davezatz said:


> This going to be an extremely high end model. That market mostly wouldn't benefit from OTA. Would be nice to see a Roamio for the masses that retains "roam"ing capabilities and the flexibility of prior models that do cable and OTA. But haven't heard anything on that front.


I can't imagine TiVo creating this beast without a specific market for a high-end product. TiVo's custom resellers must have asked for this type of product. It appears based on the Cedia teaser that this DVR will be more than 2X the size of the Roamio Pro model. Is 3TB the largest size DVR commercially available?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Let's say we are talking about a new 6TB, 12 tuner box, I just think it would make more sense to get two Roamio Pros...

On the other hand, it does't hurt the marketing side of the business!


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bradleys said:


> Let's say we are talking about a new 6TB, 12 tuner box, I just think it would make more sense to get two Roamio Pros...
> 
> On the other hand, it does't hurt the marketing side of the business!


Unless a large MSO is going to buy tons of those boxes from TiVo, there is no way they would ever make a profit on a box like that. The retail market for it would be way too thin, and the cost of manufacturing it would be way too high. If they are really going to manufacture a box like that without a purchase order from a major cable company, then it is purely for PR to be able to say that they make the best DVR in the world.


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## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

Probably a TiVo Roamio XL.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Unless a large MSO is going to buy tons of those boxes from TiVo, there is no way they would ever make a profit on a box like that. The retail market for it would be way too thin, and the cost of manufacturing it would be way too high. If they are really going to manufacture a box like that without a purchase order from a major cable company, then it is purely for PR to be able to say that they make the best DVR in the world.


I highly doubt this is for MSOs. They have no need for their customers to have that type of storage capacity. Like was said earlier, this is for high-end custom installers.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

rainwater said:


> I highly doubt this is for MSOs. They have no need for their customers to have that type of storage capacity. Like was said earlier, this is for high-end custom installers.


Unless TiVo is planning on charging $1500 for it, they will never make money off it. And who exactly designed this thing? I thought TiVo laid off their hardware engineers last year.


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## jwbelcher (Nov 13, 2007)

mbernste said:


> Probably a TiVo Roamio XL.


I'm going with Roamio Ultimate.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Like I said, no significance. It just seems like for marketing dog and pony show bragging rights. They'll be lucky to sell 100 of them. They can price it at a million dollars but then they'd just need to sell one of them to pay some Tivo executive's salary for a year .


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jwbelcher said:


> I'm going with Roamio Ultimate.


Nah, it's gotta start with a "P" like "Plus" and "Pro". How about "Roamio Platinum".


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Keeping expectations low and guessing it's just an HDD upgrade of the Plus/Pro hardware. But that's not a bad thing. It doesn't seem like there's much of a need to engineer anything particularly unique for a small enthusiast market.

Maybe they'll bring back the (meh) THX branding.

I guess it's cool for archivers and binge-watchers. Too bad it's coming after the 12-day FXX Simpsons marathon.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

It wouldn't take much engineering to add a second cable-card and tuner chip, add a 6TB hard drive and you have the Roamio "P"erformance. 

If they were able to price this beast at $999, it could be a compelling offering, but it would probably retail > $1299

Even if money were no object, I still think just for the redundancy and manageability - I would rather just have a second Roamio...


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

With the tweet regarding the pending Android app, I wonder if this isn't some sort of app integration with an existing integrator such as Crestron (though I believe they run Windows Embedded?)


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bradleys said:


> Even if money were no object, I still think just for the redundancy and manageability - I would rather just have a second Roamio...


I hear ya! That's my perspective as well.

I'd rather have (and do have) 3x 3TB base Roamios w/4 tuners, capable of allowing me to go OTA, if my conditions change to require it. I also like the added storage, and having redundancy in place for tuning failures, drive failures, and any TiVo "failure" to record (or in the case of a bad recording).

I still wouldn't touch a touch a Mini, even with somebody else's remote.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Unless TiVo is planning on charging $1500 for it, they will never make money off it.


I don't think it is out of question. Again, you have to understand the target audience at CEDIA. If there were for MSOs, CEDIA seems like that last place you would announce it.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I don't think it is out of question. Again, you have to understand the target audience at CEDIA. If there were for MSOs, CEDIA seems like that last place you would announce it.


Or more... Perhaps $1,999.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

If they add a 6TB drive, they are only around $300. Well at least for the 6TB WD Red drives on Amazon.

That is just amazing!! Twelve years ago I spent around that much on each *250GB* drive. Now you can get *6TB* Drives!!

That one drive has double the storage I had with a dozen of the 250GB drives I had in a tower case back then for my HD recordings. That that seems amazing when I think about it.

I hope they have some sales on the 6TB drives during the Holidays this year.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> If they add a 6TB drive, they are only around $300.


What's the best bang for your buck in terms of storage? If they went with three or four drives, what size would they use? 3TB? 4TB? Hm.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

3 tb probably has the best $/gb ratio.


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## mrizzo80 (Apr 17, 2012)

A 6TB drive would be ~430x larger than the original TiVo released in 1999.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

2TB is < $100.
3TB go for $100-120ish.
4TB is $150-ish.
6TB are $300ish.

All Newegg pricing, anyway. The pricing sweet spot would be to use two of their existing 3TB stock they already have.

Just a 6TB HDD upgrade seems like it'd be a $900-$1000 product unless there's something else amazing about it.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Just a 6TB HDD upgrade seems like it'd be a $900-$1000 product unless there's something else amazing about it.


Like 2 CableCard slots and 12 built-in tuners.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Like 2 CableCard slots and 12 built-in tuners.


That would do it.  I'll be surprised if they do it but that would be pretty epic.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

davezatz said:


> What's the best bang for your buck in terms of storage? If they went with three or four drives, what size would they use? 3TB? 4TB? Hm.


I've been following the subject of $/TB, very closely, for a long time.

Until recently, it could cost as much as $60 more (or more), to get 4TB over 3TB. Now that 5TB & 6TB drives are out, it's about $40 more for the extra TB, and should fall further. It has already reached the point where I could buy a 4TB today, for what I paid for my 3TB drives, short of a year ago.

Just beware of the number of previous generation drives sitting in inventory, going on sale for very low prices. WD refreshed the whole lineup/rainbow, except the AV-GP one (AFAIK & TTBOMK). One drive, in particular, to be wary of, is any WD Red NAS drive, 4TB and lower. The new ones have NASware 3.0 firmware (and 2.0 ones can't be upgraded to it). The 2.5" 1TB Red NAS drives are now shipping w/3.0, but like other models, WD did not change the actual model number (making it hard to know what you are getting, unless it's clearly stated what NASware version, or what generation you are buying).

Given the number of DOA and "infant mortality" drives being reported in reviews, before the refresh models, I've been holding back on buying any drives I don't NEED, right at the time. I'm holding-out for the existing inventory to clear-out, and then buy a refresh cycle one (like how I just bought 2 of the NASware 3.0, 2.5" 1TB Red NAS drives, from Newegg, for $70 each).


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## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

Here's a wild thought. How about a TiVo based TV with cloud storage? It could be an app that is part of a smart TV that uses the familiar TiVo guide and the shows are stored remotely. This would be similar to what Cablevision does with their cloud based DVRs. You can have a virtually unlimited number of tuners. The only trick would be the authorization process with the cable company unless TiVo goes into the content delivery business on its own.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Unless TiVo is planning on charging $1500 for it, they will never make money off it. And who exactly designed this thing? I thought TiVo laid off their hardware engineers last year.


If it's just a larger hard drive then there's nothing to design and really no added cost other than the new drive. It seems to be as simple as swapping in a 6 TB drive for a 3TB drive and doing some testing.

Based on my own usages, I can't understand how anyone would need more than 6 tuners. I record a lot of stuff and I've only rarely had 6 things being recorded at the same time and most of those cases involved some cable channels which repeat shows the same day and even more during the rest of the week. I just don't see the point of a 12 tuner box. It seems useless to me.

However, I do see the draw of a larger hard drive. I have a 3 TB drive now and I need to frequently manage/offload stuff from my Tivo. It sounds crazy but I record a lot of stuff and sometimes don't get to it for a few years. Plus my kids have a lot of their stuff on there and all of sudden I'm at 96% capacity.

So, to me, this seems like a simple drive upgrade to 4-6 TB of drive sizes. But we'll see.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

You would need a 12 tuner box if you wanted to support 10 active mini's with the option of Live TV.

I think that is the point of a TiVo like this... Focusing on the large custom install of a single TiVo Hub with multiple distributed nodes. Think of who these custom installers cater to and you start to see the use case.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

NYHeel said:


> If it's just a larger hard drive then there's nothing to design and really no added cost other than the new drive. It seems to be as simple as swapping in a 6 TB drive for a 3TB drive and doing some testing.


I would imagine it would need another tuner/decoder chipset. I am not sure the current one could handle that many streams.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

I suspect that this ultimate DVR may be rack mountable.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

sbiller said:


> I suspect that this ultimate DVR may be rack mountable.


Yeah, the clearance rack in about 6 months! 

JK....but anything's rack mountable if you spec it out and buy from here: http://www.middleatlantic.com

Would be awesome though Sam!


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> Yeah, the clearance rack in about 6 months!
> 
> JK....but anything's rack mountable if you spec it out and buy from here: http://www.middleatlantic.com
> 
> Would be awesome though Sam!


Agree. I was just thinking that this ultimate DVR will be targeted to the type of crowd that has all of their AV equipment rack mounted in a closet somewhere.


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## TazExprez (May 31, 2014)

I am considering getting a TiVo setup and a 12 tuner box would be very appealing. I currently have a Verizon FiOS Quantum TV Premium setup with 2 VMS1100 6 tuner boxes and 5 IPC1100 client boxes. I am currently thinking of getting 1 Roamio Plus and 6 Mini boxes since we never use all of the TV's at the same time. A 12 tuner TiVo DVR would be great, just in case.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

I would much rather TiVo support NAS setups so I can choose the storage and redundancy plan I like, rather than just putting bigger (overpriced) drives with zero redundancy in their existing box.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

My predicition is that this will be a Roamio with a 5TB/6TB drive. No changes in the hardware or software other than that.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

randian said:


> I would much rather TiVo support NAS setups so I can choose the storage and redundancy plan I like, rather than just putting bigger (overpriced) drives with zero redundancy in their existing box.


You have the ability to offload content and have for a long time... What yo are asking for would neve happen - it would violate their cable labs license.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Philmatic said:


> My predicition is that this will be a Roamio with a 5TB/6TB drive. No changes in the hardware or software other than that.


Well that is pretty meh...

I disagree - I think TiVo is trying to create a distributed system for very large installs. This would include the use of a second Cablecard and a total of 12 tuners allowing for 11 TiVo minis to be used concurrently.

And I agree with the above, it would be designed to be easily rack mountable.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

bradleys said:


> You have the ability to offload content and have for a long time... What yo are asking for would neve happen - it would violate their cable labs license.


If it's encrypted over the wire, why would Cable Labs care? It isn't any more crackable on a NAS disk than it would be on a local disk.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

randian said:


> If it's encrypted over the wire, why would Cable Labs care? It isn't any more crackable on a NAS disk than it would be on a local disk.


And you can move it using TTG and KMTTG and Pytivo.... But TiVo needs to maintain a trusted chain control on this content. Even the extendable external drive had to be striped, so removal destroyed content on both the parent drive and external drive. This was done to meet cable labs licensing.

You want that functionality? It exists on simple tv, just no cable card.

Lots of things we are waiting on from TiVo, I am just not going to waste my time pining for things that I know they can't, and won't, deliver.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Philmatic said:


> My predicition is that this will be a Roamio with a 5TB/6TB drive. No changes in the hardware or software other than that.


Doubtful. Most likely will be a raid setup. And likely will require more than just putting in another cablecard slot as it would need a chipset update.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

rainwater said:


> Doubtful. Most likely will be a raid setup. And likely will require more than just putting in another cablecard slot as it would need a chipset update.


Yes, another chipset and software changes to manage 12 tuners.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

It'd be cool if the hard drive(s) were in a sled. The way the Roamio initializes drives makes this much easier.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> That is just amazing!! Twelve years ago I spent around that much on each *250GB* drive. Now you can get *6TB* Drives!!


Whippersnapper... I remember buying 5 MB drives.

Well, not exactly. I'm pretty sure I used a Corvus system at school that had them.. But I definitely bought an 80 meg drive in the late 1980s.. and I have a 105 meg drive that I hope still works (to pull stuff off some eon).

Yeah, it seems to me that the 4 TB drives are the best unit price at the moment.. Though the drives have gone above the $100 sweet spot that
"the current best unit price" drive seemed to stay at for a while.. (e.g. for several years, watching Frys prices, $100 drives were 1 TB then 2 TB then 3 TB...)


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## grey ghost (Feb 2, 2010)

What about Tivo letting us take a downloaded show and put it on a TV elsewhere using Airplay and whatever Android calls it's version of Airplay.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

bradleys said:


> And you can move it using TTG and KMTTG and Pytivo.... But TiVo needs to maintain a trusted chain control on this content. Even the extendable external drive had to be striped, so removal destroyed content on both the parent drive and external drive. This was done to meet cable labs licensing.
> 
> You want that functionality? It exists on simple tv, just no cable card.
> 
> Lots of things we are waiting on from TiVo, I am just not going to waste my time pining for things that I know they can't, and won't, deliver.


TiVo chose to do that.

Windows Media Center with CableCARD supports moving Copy Once programs to WHS automatically. The file is actually moved rather than copied and WMC just sees the WHS as an extension of their version of My Shows.


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## pig_man (Jun 4, 2009)

So, if the new DVR has a 4-6 TB hard drive, and it shares the same software as the older Roamios, does that mean the older Roamios with the new software will be able to automatically format 4-6 TB hard drives?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

pig_man said:


> So, if the new DVR has a 4-6 TB hard drive, and it shares the same software as the older Roamios, does that mean the older Roamios with the new software will be able to automatically format 4-6 TB hard drives?


My question as well...


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

bradleys said:


> I suppose it could be a new box with more tuners / larger hard drive. I am just not sure there is enough of the market for an Ultra Pro model to make it viable.
> 
> I guess I wasn't thinking of the "big" in such a literal way.


That's what I think, too: A Roamio platform box but with more tuners and larger HDD. Now, if they include OTA with it, as well (of course, it will support cable TV), now that would be doing it right.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Series3Sub said:


> That's what I think, too: A Roamio platform box but with more tuners and larger HDD. Now, if they include OTA with it, as well (of course, it will support cable TV), now that would be doing it right.


Unless you have custom folders to put you recordings in I don't see any big market for a two cable card TiVo with a 5 or 6 Tb drive, too much information on one drive. Even with custom folders I would not turn in my 3 Roamios units (and purchase two more Minis) for this type of TiVo.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lessd said:


> Unless you have custom folders to put you recordings in I don't see any big market for a two cable card TiVo with a 5 or 6 Tb drive, too much information on one drive. Even with custom folders I would not turn in my 3 Roamios units (and purchase two more Minis) for this type of TiVo.


This TiVo doesn't seem to be aimed at a big market. It seems to be aimed for custom installers to use for high end clients.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

lessd said:


> Unless you have custom folders to put you recordings in I don't see any big market for a two cable card TiVo with a 5 or 6 Tb drive, too much information on one drive. Even with custom folders I would not turn in my 3 Roamios units (and purchase two more Minis) for this type of TiVo.


I was thinking about this the other day. I have a Roamio, a Mini and an upgraded Premiere and I cannot remember the last time I actually moved content from my TiVo to my computer... Space just isn't an issue anymore.

If I could consolidate the second full TiVo into a single Roamio - would I? Frankly, I think I could probably replace the Premiere with a mini today and not notice the difference. But yes, depending on price, I think I would consider it...

Custom Folders... Since I think the probability of TiVo implementing custom folders is absolutely zero, I do think we are getting to the point where user profiles start to make a lot of sense. More space, drives the need for organization.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

bradleys said:


> Since I think the probability of TiVo implementing custom folders is absolutely zero, I do think we are getting to the point where user profiles start to make a lot of sense.


True, though custom folders doesn't seem like a difficult or time-consuming feature to implement. Profiles don't look difficult either, since they obviously have some kind of tagging system already in place.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

randian said:


> True, though custom folders doesn't seem like a difficult or time-consuming feature to implement. Profiles don't look difficult either, since they obviously have some kind of tagging system already in place.


I suspect user profiles would simply allow you to tag season passes with a user. Default would be set to All.

Custom folders would force you to create folders and then provide some mechanism to move / associate specific content with a folder possibly with a many to many relationship.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

bradleys said:


> I suspect user profiles would simply allow you to tag season passes with a user. Default would be set to All.
> 
> Custom folders would force you to create folders and then provide some mechanism to move / associate specific content with a folder possibly with a many to many relationship.


You could also tag shows with a user. You can simulate many to many folder relationships with tags too. Moving is simply a matter of adding a new tag and deleting the old one. Easy peasy.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I just do not see TiVo ever allowing custom foldering - it is one of those slippery slope features that would only be used by a very small number people.

It really goes against what their design philosophy has always been.

People on this site tend to be very engaged and familiar with open source and community based projects. Those projects tend to get very bloated with features - and ultimately loose polish and the simplicity the larger base of casual users desire.

TiVo develops and celebrates their clean simple user interface - that is why it is very clear to me that something so configuration and maintenance heavy as custom foldering will never be considered seriously by TiVo.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

Profiles and custom folders are very similar except profiles are usable in a device like a TiVo whereas custom folders are not. Profiles are so logical for the centralized DVR model that I have to think TiVo will add them soon. The extra column for the now playing list helped but profiles are what TiVo should be implementing. 

Ideally you'd be able to tag a recording/season pass with more than one profile though then you get into the concern about one user deleting the file before the other sees it. Maybe the TiVo adds a warning screen. For example, both I and my son watch SHIELD. Ideally we would be able to tag the season pass with both our profiles on it and if my son watches it first and tries to delete the TiVo gives him a warning message that it's still on another profile and are you sure you want to delete. Or something like that.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I am not convinced they will offer either - but I am convinced that anything TiVo offers will be short on high levels of customization and long on lowest common denominator.

What do I mean by that? I do not see you being able to dynamically create and manage folders or tag individual shows with custom meta data. 

From my point of view, that would be diametrically divergent from the TiVo design strategy that they have stayed with since founding.

As I said before - that level of customization is found exclusively in community developed projects - not in consumer focused tools...


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## Game Master (Jan 11, 2013)

NYHeel said:


> Profiles and custom folders are very similar except profiles are usable in a device like a TiVo whereas custom folders are not. Profiles are so logical for the centralized DVR model that I have to think TiVo will add them soon. The extra column for the now playing list helped but profiles are what TiVo should be implementing.
> 
> Ideally you'd be able to tag a recording/season pass with more than one profile though then you get into the concern about one user deleting the file before the other sees it. Maybe the TiVo adds a warning screen. For example, both I and my son watch SHIELD. Ideally we would be able to tag the season pass with both our profiles on it and if my son watches it first and tries to delete the TiVo gives him a warning message that it's still on another profile and are you sure you want to delete. Or something like that.


That makes A lot of scents. I didnt think of custom folders like that because i'm the only one in the house the records


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Game Master said:


> * That makes A lot of scents.* I didnt think of custom folders like that because i'm the only one in the house the records


Is TiVo getting into Smell-a-vision now?.......Cool!


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

bradleys said:


> As I said before - that level of customization is found exclusively in community developed projects - not in consumer focused tools...


Yea, no one ever organizes their books or music at home, they just keep it all in a jumbled up pile where they can't find anything. It is far too difficult for the pitiful pudding brains to imagine organizing anything.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

tomhorsley said:


> Yea, no one ever organizes their books or music at home, they just keep it all in a jumbled up pile where they can't find anything. It is far too difficult for the pitiful pudding brains to imagine organizing anything.


I take it somebody saw the Doctor Who premiere, with all the ranting about "pudding brains", in a scottish accent?

Pudding brains aside, I agree with the sentiment. At the same time, you'd be surprised at the state of some homes, of the people most organized outside of them (mind-blowing).

I'm of the type that can somehow clean somebody else's house, but am typing on a laptop propped-up by Newegg boxes and stacks of "file in the next lifetime" documents. Maybe TiVo employees and contractors should be required to only use TiVo, and no other method of content viewing. At some point, they'd say "Somebody needs to do something about this!", only to realize it's their job.

EDIT/ADD: The big question would be if they still wanted something done about it, once realizing it's in their job description.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

Game Master said:


> That makes A lot of scents.


I agree, this thread with all of the speculation does make a lot of scents.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

tomhorsley said:


> Yea, no one ever organizes their books or music at home, they just keep it all in a jumbled up pile where they can't find anything. It is far too difficult for the pitiful pudding brains to imagine organizing anything.


I know that was meant in a sarcastic way, unfortunately, it is more true than you might want to admit.

TiVo has very good statistics on the shelf life of content and can break that down between television series, movies, reality TV, sports and the like. They also know how many people use KUID vs KUSN and how many shows are removed with no user interaction whatsoever. Most content on TiVo's do not have an excessively long shelf life - it is watched once and eventually deleted.

So, now for some statistics that come from absolutely nowhere - who would use foldering?:

70% of TiVo users wouldn't even notice or bother to look at the new functionality.
25% of TiVo users would think it was a good idea, start using it, but the manual interaction would be a turn off and it would fall out of favor
5% of TiVo OCD users would use the foldering to it's fullest extent keeping their library organized, neat and clean. These are also generally the people that have upgraded hard drives and use TiVo to watch archived DVD collections via PyTiVo or TiVo Desktop transfers.

Where is the ROI on that functionality for TiVo?

When I design applications for my customers, I often hear requests for highly customized, manual interaction to accommodate 1% issues. Never a good idea, creates complexity for very little ROI.

A very good example are the folders they included in the last update - I have now deleted everything with the exception of Devices and Video Providers. I just do not look for content in that way.


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## Game Master (Jan 11, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> Is TiVo getting into Smell-a-vision now?.......Cool!


lol, I think I spelled *scents* wong, but that would cool. TiVo beats cable to Smell-a-vision.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

bradleys said:


> I know that was meant in a sarcastic way, unfortunately, it is more true than you might want to admit.
> 
> TiVo has very good statistics on the shelf life of content and can break that down between television series, movies, reality TV, sports and the like. They also know how many people use KUID vs KUSN and how many shows are removed with no user interaction whatsoever. Most content on TiVo's do not have an excessively long shelf life - it is watched once and eventually deleted.
> 
> ...


I feel this way about custom folders but TiVo should be able to market the hell out of profiles. It's s difference maker between it and cable DVRs and it can be marketed well if they try. Most of their customers have kids and families and profiles make thinks easier for the kids as well as the adults. They can even customize their show recommendation feature via what to watch now with profiles similar to how Netflix does it. It just makes tons of sense.

I also think you're wrong about shelf lives of shows. Kids keep shows on all the time. They don't like to delete stuff. You're thinking about your usage pattern and not the typical family.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

NYHeel said:


> I feel this way about custom folders but TiVo should be able to market the hell out of profiles. It's s difference maker between it and cable DVRs and it can be marketed well if they try. Most of their customers have kids and families and profiles make thinks easier for the kids as well as the adults. They can even customize their show recommendation feature via what to watch now with profiles similar to how Netflix does it. It just makes tons of sense.
> 
> I also think you're wrong about shelf lives of shows. Kids keep shows on all the time. They don't like to delete stuff. You're thinking about your usage pattern and not the typical family.


I am thinking about the law of big numbers and the statistics that TiVo data mines from all the deployed units. They would know far better then you or I about the usage patterns.

I agree that Profiles make some sense and could be implemented with a set-it-and-forget-it mechanism. And that is the point that I am trying to make, anything that takes significant user interaction - like manually manipulating meta data at the content level, would fail. And if you look at the design strategies TiVo has structured, they focus on global settings and stay away from high customization and manual configuration.

I tend to be a realist not an individualist - and from that point of view, TiVo will develop functionality that brings the greatest value to the largest user base without impacting the clean, simple functionality of their UI experience.

That alone kills the idea of custom folders.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Nah, it's gotta start with a "P" like "Plus" and "Pro". How about "Roamio Platinum".


The Roamio Putin will be announced at CEDIA. It will take over all video recording and distribution in your home... and your neighbors.


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## Ikrion (Aug 31, 2014)

bunjicat said:


> More like Tivo no where, but your home. The copy protection has gotten ridiculous. Stream is useless because everything is flagged.


So is this what is going on with Aero and why we've had external (out of home streaming) "Coming Soon" for some time? Would TiVo we reclassified as a carrier/rebroadcaster if they did?

I wonder if the feature is going to be terminated. But what of those customers who purchased it thinking the "Coming Soon" would actually come?


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## Ikrion (Aug 31, 2014)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Unless TiVo is planning on charging $1500 for it, they will never make money off it. And who exactly designed this thing? I thought TiVo laid off their hardware engineers last year.


Outsourcing I'm sure. Bring experts in when needed, contractual basis. Things go well, everyone wins, things don't go well, and TiVo doesn't have FTEs to deal with in Engineering.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Ikrion said:


> Outsourcing I'm sure. Bring experts in when needed, contractual basis. Things go well, everyone wins, things don't go well, and TiVo doesn't have FTEs to deal with in Engineering.


Stupid rumor that has been debunked a dozen times.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bradleys said:


> Stupid rumor that has been debunked a dozen times.


Which part is a "debunked rumor"?

TiVo outsources their support call-center and all other customer interaction, with only a few true TiVo employees choosing to interact here, now usually just TiVoMargret, once she's done with her tweets. The CSRs will lie and say they are "actual TiVo employees", when they are employees of a support-for-hire company. I know this to be a fact. Explaining how could get me in trouble, and still wouldn't be solid proof.

The support company is intentionally left in the dark on many things, often having no awareness of things like mass TiVo Service outages, denying there is one, while TiVoMargret has been aware and tweeting about it for over 12 hours (just one past example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing).

TiVo may have designed their products, but the manufacturing of the ones for MSO & retail are outsourced. Last I checked, TiVos are still made in Mexico.

TiVo has repeatedly publicly stated they'd like to be a "software company", and focus on that. They caught some flak for saying they wanted out of hardware, responding by simply denying they'd made the exit (yet).

They can want a direction the customer's don't, and keep customers satisfied by simply saying they are still in the game, and not admitting an exit, until the exit has already been fully completed.

If you are talking about the alleged false blogs/articles about TiVo leaving the hardware business, then turning it around as some "misrepresentation", I already covered that. Nobody (but TiVo) truly knows what TiVo wants, or what direction they want to go, nor do they know what "will happen".


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

dswallow said:


> The Roamio Putin will be announced at CEDIA. It will take over all video recording and distribution in your home... and your neighbors.


LOL


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

> If you are talking about the alleged false blogs/articles about TiVo leaving the hardware business, then turning it around as some "misrepresentation", I already covered that. Nobody (but TiVo) truly knows what TiVo wants, or what direction they want to go, nor do they know what "will happen".


I don't even see a post by you, and yes I mean the incorrect article about TiVo laying off all their hardware designers and getting out of the hardware business - that everyone keeps quoting.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

bradleys said:


> , and yes I mean the incorrect article about TiVo laying off all their hardware designers and getting out of the hardware business - that everyone keeps quoting.


"Breaking news! NFL teams laid off nearly all their unneeded players yesterday. According to sources within the NFL the league will be getting out of the sports business altogether and making a big direction change." --WIRED

TiVo hardware is built using off the shelf parts (no proprietary chips) by other manufacturers such as Pace PLC which have their own designers.

"*Update: Tivo says it will continue to use third-party designers for hardware going forward. *

Today, the company laid off nearly all the industrial designers of those products.
According to sources within Tivo, *most of the hardware team has been let go. So far, thats five employees*. A skeleton crew of two engineers has been retained to handle support for current and upcoming third-party devices. The sources told WIRED that Tivo is getting out of the hardware business altogether and making a big direction change."

http://www.wired.com/2014/01/tivo-lays-hardware-design-team-gets-ready-exit-hardware/


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/22/5336648/tivo-refutes-rumors-says-hardware-is-a-core-business


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

TiVo Mega

Yawn. Only six tuners? At least lifetime is included for $5k.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

SullyND said:


> At least lifetime is included for $5k.


And a Slide remote.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

davezatz said:


> And a Slide remote.


The only thing I'm curious about is if the OS can go beyond 3/4TB and how it deals with hot-swapping (the drives must not marry, right?). Is it possible both of those are hardware solutions rather than the OS?

6 TR Plus/Lifetime/4TB "Community" hard drives - 36 Tuners, 24TB for a little less, right?


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

SullyND said:


> The only thing I'm curious about is if the OS can go beyond 3/4TB and how it deals with hot-swapping (the drives must not marry, right?). Is it possible both of those are hardware solutions rather than the OS?
> 
> *6 TR Plus/Lifetime/4TB "Community" hard drives - 36 Tuners, 24TB for a little less, right?*


Not really, because, for most CTV subscribers, those six CableCARDs equate to five monthly charges of about $10 ("Additional Digital Outlet" fee). At $50 p.m., that's $600 p.a., and before you know it you've amortized a good portion--perhaps all--of the purchase price of the Mega!

For this reason, it would have made more marketing sense IMO if TiVo could have included additional tuners in this baby with slots for additional CableCARDs. The user could then expand the number of usable tuners for a much more modest additional monthly fee (usually about $2 per additional CableCARD in the same device).

As ridiculously over-the-top as this Mega seems, I'll bet there's a market for it among hard-core and well-heeled TV-aholics. Still, it gives me a chuckle just to imagine who would want or need such a monster in their home. But it's nice to see that TiVo is thinking out of the box (and into the rack).


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## Time_Lord (Jun 4, 2012)

SullyND said:


> The only thing I'm curious about is if the OS can go beyond 3/4TB and how it deals with hot-swapping (the drives must not marry, right?).


The TiVo announcement states that the drives are used in a RAID configuration, in very simplistic terms when you have the drives in a RAID array the OS simply sees one large disk, the housekeeping of the RAID array is handled elsewhere.

So to answer you question about the drives being married to the system the answer is that only the large virtual drive is married, the disks within the array don't matter.

-TL


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## eboydog (Mar 24, 2006)

Perhaps I'm being old but with that much more storage, it's almost wasted without better folder management and profiles. With a couple Roamios with 3tb each, I find it hard enough to find something recorded prior and often when I record something find its already recorded esp movies. 

Disappointing that there are only 6 tuners, perhaps though this is just the base model described and there will be additional models?


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

I think with the mega TiVo that's been announced that's fully possible.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Just think people perching this mega unit will have to change their will as to who in the family get all these TV programs when you die.


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## DebiLee (Aug 25, 2014)

I can imagine it now, if a TiVo can encrust this with diamonds women who are TiVo- holics will want this instead of jewelry for anniversaries, birthdays, and Valentines day. Think of all the Lifetime movies they can fit on it! This can be in place of an engagement ring. Both require a lifetime commitment.


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

This is BIG! Introducing the *TiVo Mega*. 24 Terabytes of storage! 4000 hours of HD capacity (24 weeks) or 26,000 hours SD capacity (3 years). RAID Array, you will not lose your content if a HD goes bad. 6 tuners, includes Lifetime Subscription Service.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

eboydog said:


> Disappointing that there are only 6 tuners, perhaps though this is just the base model described and there will be additional models?


So you're going to hold out for the TiVo Mega Pro?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

L David Matheny said:


> So you're going to hold out for the TiVo Mega Pro?


I'm guessing the "Mega Plus" will have 12 tuners and the "Mega Pro" will have 18 tuners.


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Davisadm said:


> This is BIG! Introducing the *TiVo Mega*. 24 Terabytes of storage! 4000 hours of HD capacity (24 weeks) or 26,000 hours SD capacity (3 years). RAID Array, you will not lose your content if a HD goes bad. 6 tuners, includes Lifetime Subscription Service.


I saw it at CEDIA yesterday. No live demo.

I got the impression they've a ways to go before the UI has the necessary means to deal with managing a RAID50. Dealing with swapping out drives and doing rebuilds is non-trivial. It seems like it'll be an interesting challenge translating that sort of stuff into a Tivo-friendly UI.

I also beat them up on the lack of support for other local network media. Without committing to anything, they did give the impression there's new work developing on that front. And no, it won't be a refresh of Tivo Desktop. No timetable given or hinted.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

wkearney99 said:


> I saw it at CEDIA yesterday. No live demo. I got the impression they've a ways to go before the UI has the necessary means to deal with managing a RAID50. Dealing with swapping out drives and doing rebuilds is non-trivial. It seems like it'll be an interesting challenge translating that sort of stuff into a Tivo-friendly UI.
> 
> *I also beat them up on the lack of support for other local network media. Without committing to anything, they did give the impression there's new work developing on that front. And no, it won't be a refresh of Tivo Desktop. No timetable given or hinted.*


That would be cool! 8)


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## DigitalDawn (Apr 26, 2009)

wkearney99 said:


> I saw it at CEDIA yesterday. No live demo.
> 
> I got the impression they've a ways to go before the UI has the necessary means to deal with managing a RAID50. Dealing with swapping out drives and doing rebuilds is non-trivial. It seems like it'll be an interesting challenge translating that sort of stuff into a Tivo-friendly UI.
> 
> I also beat them up on the lack of support for other local network media. Without committing to anything, they did give the impression there's new work developing on that front. And no, it won't be a refresh of Tivo Desktop. No timetable given or hinted.


I saw the Mega at CEDIA on Thursday and TiVo was using it to stream to six Minis.


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

wkearney99 said:


> I saw it at CEDIA yesterday. No live demo.


Huh??????????????



DigitalDawn said:


> I saw the Mega at CEDIA on Thursday and TiVo was using it to stream to six Minis.


It was up and running!


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Davisadm said:


> It was up and running!


When I was back at the booth yesterday they did indeed have one running. I did not have time to investigate further. There was also another one on display and not connected.

For the folks wanting this to have more tuners, remember, the latest software does a pretty good job of handling content that's on more than one box, along with configuring recordings. So should you need more it's pretty easy to add another Roamio. If it follows existing Tivo software it won't 'dump' it's recordings back onto the Mega. But any content that is on it, along with being able to manage it's Season Passes, can be found easily and plays back just the same.

If you're not already using a Roamio and you find it tedious to 'juggle' using older models, you REALLY should consider upgrading. Me, I did it just to have the same remotes across the household. My only gripe is the Tivos have no way to automate moving recordings in bulk. I hope by the time the Mega hits the market that will be addressed.


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

TiVo booth at CEDIA


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

The working Mega


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

Back of Mega. Sorry about the quality. The display unit was behind plexiglass, and had terrible glare.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Okay, I might be critical of the usage with only 6 tuners... But that is pretty cool looking!


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

bradleys said:


> Okay, I might be critical of the usage with only 6 tuners... But that is pretty cool looking!


As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. These pictures paint a clearer picture for me, than thousands of words in other threads on the subject.

This is the first I actually realized there are two products here:

1. The Mega rack mountable.
2. What appears to be rack mountable "docking stations" to install Roamio Pros in.

This makes the 6 tuner (assumed) limitation, a somewhat moot point, when you can just rack-in 6 more tuners at a time. But, unless the Mega somehow "slaves" the Pros, and uses a backplane to let the Pro eSATA port make use of the RAID (as a DAS/NAS pool), or some other clever way to favor the Mega for storage, there (IMO) needs to be some enhanced method to manage CCI-byte restricted content. Sure, you can stream it around. But, if the Pros get filled with non-transferrable content, while there are still multiples of TBs in Mega space, it would seem kind of wrong if all that can be done with what a Pro records is streaming, then ultimately deletion for making space on the Pros.

If TiVo would/could simply turn off the proprietary eSATA striping mechanism for Pros (when rackmounted with a Mega), it almost seems easy to make it all work together, and make sure the Pros are never deleting content to make space on themselves, unless the content is duplicated on the Mega, and deduplication makes sense.

I hope others will refrain from calling me "ridiculous" on these thoughts. To some, the whole Mega is nothing but "ridiculous" (except for the tuner count).


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## Game Master (Jan 11, 2013)

Davisadm said:


> The working Mega


Are those slots on the left and right side of the TiVo logo the removable hard drives, that we can use to record on?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Game Master said:


> Are those slots on the left and right side of the TiVo logo the removable hard drives, that we can use to record on?


Yes.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. These pictures paint a clearer picture for me, than thousands of words in other threads on the subject.
> 
> This is the first I actually realized there are two products here:
> 
> ...


Are those actually docking stations for the Pros? To me it just looks like a metal faceplate around the Roamio Pros. The same thing currently used with many devices to give them a cleaner look in a rack mount.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

nooneuknow said:


> 2. What appears to be rack mountable "docking stations" to install Roamio Pros in.


I think those are just custom faceplates - you can get them for all kinds of products.

http://www.cld-dist.co.uk/news/new-custom-faceplates-shelves.shtml










The issue I have with this product is that I do not see the use of that much storage in what ultimately is just a souped up Roamio Pro. TiVo's do not use Tuner Pooling, it is tedious to move content from one TiVo to another, and it really isn't designed for DVD archiving scenarios - it just does not make sense.

Just looking a this photo, you have three TiVo's. So let's assume the best case scenario is that you house all of your season passes on the Roamio Mega and the standard TiVo's drive the viewing TV's. This would reduce any recording conflicts and still provide 12 live tuners for distributed TV's.

It works - but a much better solution would be one TiVo Mega with two cable cards, 12 tuners, two video outs, and the horsepower to distribute all that content.

Meh - that is just my thought process.

(Actually, I think a much better solution would be a TiVo storage locker. In software develop the ability to tag content on standard TiVo's to push it over to the locker. Set up a Wishlist? Choose a default location. Finish watching a movie? Option to Delete or archive. But that is all just wishful thinking! )


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> Are those actually docking stations for the Pros? To me it just looks like a metal faceplate around the Roamio Pros. The same thing currently used with many devices to give them a cleaner look in a rack mount.


Yes, those are rack mount kits which work with the Plus and Pro. The Mega has rack mount ears on the box.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Maybe 2nd and 3rd Tivos will treat that 24TB as their own storage also?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

And include any new TiVo storage as a part of the Array?

That would be cool, but I suspect we would have heard about that functionality as part of this update.

I also expect the TiVoCommunity Raid experts would be have a hard time with Lan Attached drives in the Raid Pool. 

No, I expect each TiVo will see the other in the same way they do today - independent, with the ability to communicate via MRS. So, once again the question is, what is the point of that much space with no improved mechanism for getting content to it?

Do you really need to indefinitely store that many episodes of _Real Housewives of Atlanta_?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

bradleys said:


> Do you really need to indefinitely store that many episodes of _Real Housewives of Atlanta_?


It called addiction and OCD, let not make any decision about what to save just save it all! someone may want to look at this stuff in the future, like your great great grandchildren


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

lessd said:


> It called addiction and OCD, let not make any decision about what to save just save it all! someone may want to look at this stuff in the future, like your great great grandchildren


They probably won't have time to watch it either.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

lessd said:


> It called addiction and OCD, let not make any decision about what to save just save it all! someone may want to look at this stuff in the future, like your great great grandchildren


I know you are being tongue in cheek, but that is exactly the problem with it. You don't design platforms for outliers.

The beauty of TiVo content is that once you begin to exceed your space it either rolls off on its own or it prompts you to do a little house cleaning. Once you begin to reach relative ∞ in space, then all motivators for cleaning house slip away.

Content piles up, like a bunch of garbage in a neglected garage - and eventually you cannot walk through it.

I have been pretty vocal about my belief that TiVo will not add custom folders that require user tags on individual content - it is bad design.

But you cannot just fill up 24TB of space and expect people to find something without a better organizational schema.

I don't get it...


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Davisadm said:


> Yes, those are rack mount kits which work with the Plus and Pro. The Mega has rack mount ears on the box.


That's disappointing. I saw a great opportunity to dock a Roamio Plus/Pro to a backplane, and use the eSATA port to allow use of the Mega RAID array, in place of an expander drive.

I suppose that still could be done (via cables, rather than backplane), if 6 tuners is truly all the Mega will natively support. Unless CCI-Byte protected content is allowed to be recorded by a Plus/Pro added to the rack, but stored on the array, the whole 24TB deal just seems out of proportion, IMO.

I guess there's always the hope of Mega (base), Mega Plus, and Mega Pro becoming realities, with 6, 12, & 18 tuners, respectively, using 1,2, or 3 cablecards. That would help it seem more proportionally correct using the latter two. Other products allow do things this way.

OTOH, TiVo might have so much faith in cablecards becoming EOL'd, and having something in the works to replace it, that the added cost for more cablecard slots, supporting hardware, and licensing fees, just don't make sense. Man, sometimes I hate speculation threads (and the products that force speculation)...


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

As a professional installer all I can say is this "I want those rack mountable Roamio docking stations". Those pictures are truly worth 1000 words I am extremely impressed by the layout and set up that was being demonstrated. It's even better in person.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Aren't those just custom cut Middle Atlantic racks that fit the TiVo face and chassis? It was pretty obvious I thought. I never even thought of them being some sort of "docking station".


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

HarperVision said:


> Aren't those just custom cut Middle Atlantic racks that fit the TiVo face and chassis? It was pretty obvious I thought. I never even thought of them being some sort of "docking station".


I wasn't aware you got to see one up close. Where are your pictures showing what the full backside looks like, what the extra TiVo racks pulled out look like, or other compelling "pretty obvious" pictures?


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## Davisadm (Jan 19, 2008)

nooneuknow said:


> I wasn't aware you got to see one up close. Where are your pictures showing what the full backside looks like, what the extra TiVo racks pulled out look like, or other compelling "pretty obvious" pictures?


The TiVo rack mounts are the shelf type with a custom face. I couldn't get pics of the back because the back of the rack was closed


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

Davisadm said:


> The TiVo rack mounts are the shelf type with a custom face. I couldn't get pics of the back because the back of the rack was closed


Thank you. That's exactly what was needed to put that matter to bed. FWIW, my post was not directed at you, in case you misunderstood that.


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