# Tivo vs. r15



## tjs107 (Feb 5, 2003)

I have both and like some of the features of each. If they could be combined that would be great.
But my question is: Is directv still offering new Tivo unit and continuing the product line.

It is my opinion that the Tivo is the better unit for reliability and near flawless use.

Thanks
TJS


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## ForrestB (Apr 8, 2004)

DirecTV stopped selling SD Tivo based DVR's more than a year ago. I can't comment on the non Tivo's based DVR's - as all of my machines are DirecTivo's and they work great IMHO.


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## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

tjs107 said:


> It is my opinion that the Tivo is the better unit for reliability and near flawless use.


I would agree. :up: I go from one to the other and like things about each but your statement above is correct.


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## l2bengtrek (May 31, 2006)

ForrestB said:


> DirecTV stopped selling SD Tivo based DVR's more than a year ago. I can't comment on the non Tivo's based DVR's - as all of my machines are DirecTivo's and they work great IMHO.


without too much laughing....what's IMHO?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

l2bengtrek said:


> without too much laughing....what's IMHO?


In My Humble Opinion


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

You can't just state a prepositional phrase without reference to something, Earl... In your humble opinion, what???? 


(In order to avoid confusion such as mine when I read your post if you were referring to the poster above your post, then you might have quoted them.) 

Sorry, man - I just can't help it today.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

BillyT2002 said:


> You can't just state a prepositional phrase without reference to something, Earl... In your humble opinion, what????
> 
> (In order to avoid confusion such as mine when I read your post if you were referring to the poster above your post, then you might have quoted them.)
> 
> Sorry, man - I just can't help it today.


Thank you for the correction......

What? Where you think I was going to say...
"In my humble opinion.... the R15 is...... as comared to the DTivo"


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## mikieminnow (Mar 16, 2004)

I *just *got off the phone w/ DirecTV tech support regarding my reception. The operator I was talking to told me that they have plenty of Tivos left in the warehouse to replace Tivos that go bad (I didn't know Tivo could be bad!!  ).


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## juliana541 (Oct 19, 2005)

I like my tivo. I hope they support it till 2052


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## washins (Jan 22, 2004)

I just had to replace one of my DTivos and was given the option of the DTV-brand or D-Tivo. Since this was my secondary box (in the bedroom) I went for their brand just to tinker with the technology....hell, it's free.

To be honest, it's not bad at all, but I wouldn't have it as my primary box. It is nice to actually be able to do something on those "Mix" channels though.

Also, it is nice to know that I can get a D-Tivo if necessary.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

The R15 is a steamimg pile of pooh. It has been out for a long time now and it still has ALOT of SERIOUS issues that they refuse to fix.

Do yourself a favor and find an on-line outlet to buy a good TiVo unit. The R15 will always be a skunk because DirecTv doesn't have the common sense to admit they created a ugly monster that is junk.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

I spent a week at my brother-in-law's house, and he had an R15. Yes, I'm used to the Tivo, but I'm also a techno-geek, and pretty open-minded about new technology.

The #1 issue is the sketchy reliability. My BIL said that it sometimes misses shows (not guide related), and it often can't distinguish a new show from a repeat.

The #2 issue is no wishlists. This is a big deal for me, as I have about half of my season passes set up as wishlists (e.g. "SURVIVOR" to catch all seasons, "CSI" to catch all types, "SOPRANOS" to catch it no matter which HBO it's on, etc.).

The #3 issue is the user interface. It's simply cumbersome. My nanny, for example, has no issues with the Tivo. But my BIL's nanny can do nothing but watch live TV with the R15. The "Now Playing" list is a weird mess, and even something as simple as italics versus bold for folders versus single shows is backwards, making the instant understanding of what you see confusing.

The #3.5 issue is the remote. Way too many buttons, including the yellow/red/blue combo adopted by many cable DVR's. And it's got a big button separate from the directional pad, so you're constantly moving your thumb/finger all over the remote.

The #4 issue is speed. It's adequate, but seemed slightly slower than the 6.1/6.2 DirecTivo's for normal viewing and browsing (e.g. the Now Playing list scrolls at a painfully slow and unnecessary speed). However the special features (e.g. weather) are painfully slow, to the point of being unusable (except to explore once).

In summary, the UI looks professional from a distance, but it's not even close to the usability of the Tivo. And the reliability is a show stopper. The speed is bearable, but I'm shocked that it's not faster, given the complaints to date about the Tivo.

In any case, I'm glad I had an opportunity to play with it for a longer period of time, if for nothing else to get an educated opinion of my own, and guarantee that I'll never use one (as they won't be making any fundamental UI changes, even if they fix the reliability and speed issues).


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## 2457 (May 17, 2006)

I hate my R15. I just got it 2 weeks ago. I find it interesting that you said DirecTV has R10 units still in stock? Do you know if they sell those units still?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

AbMagFab; When where you at your BIL's ? as I am curious which software version he was on.

#1 as greatly improved since the 10B8 release (and 10C8)... It still doesn't differentiate 100% between first runs and repeats, but.... if the number of "missed recording" posts at www.dbstalk.com are an indicator, that problem has VASTLY improved...

#2 is a feature difference... and you are 100% correct, it doesn't have Wishlists. If you need wishlists, you have no choice then to go with a TiVo powered unit

#3 not sure about your BIL's nanny, but my 5 year old can navigate the MyVod  The fonts and colors are a little non-distinct (As you said), so I can understand where some people can find it hard to use...

#3.5 The R23 remote, I agree 100% with you... The updated version the R32 which is comming in August, has the same number of buttons, but they are larger and a little more spread out... .I find it now to be just as easy as the peanut

#4 10C8 (the latest public release) has "perked up" the UI a bit... It is faster in some areas then the DTivos, but the DTivos are still quicker in others...

DOOD - Please list your "Serious Issues"


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

Earl - why did they mess with the peanut form factor? Everyone knows the peanut form factor is the perfect of remote control ergonomics. Shouldn't every future remote control be implementing the peanut form factor?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

TiVo patent... 

I have always loved the peanut remote.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I guess if I wind up with a DirecTV HD DVR, my Harmony 880 will be yet more useful to me if I can figure out how to program it to control the NDS DVR.


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## jrinck (Nov 24, 2004)

Does the R15 still change the channel 5 minutes too early to go to a scheduled recording?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

No with the latest 10C8/1047 release.
It will ask 5 minutes before, but it won't change it (if you still want it to), until about 1s before the recording is to start.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> DOOD - Please list your "Serious Issues"


1. It will miss season pass shows - This has been a consistant issue!

2. No 30 second skip

3. No second channel buffer - You know how sucky that is?

4. Interface is cumbersome

DirecTv has layed a huge egg with this dud. They have been promising (lying) to customers forever that they are addressing the issue, yet they stand waist deep in pooh, without a clue as how to fix their own ignorance.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> No with the latest 10C8/1047 release.
> It will ask 5 minutes before, but it won't change it (if you still want it to), until about 1s before the recording is to start.


Wrong. It still is an issue. Just happened to me 30 minutes ago. Yes, i have the 10C8/1047 update.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Then you have a serious problem with your unit...

1) As most season passes are recording, there are some that don't.. but most are functioning correctly
2) 30s SLIP has been there since 10B8 (about two months ago)
3) Feature difference, not a "bug"
4) Feature difference, not a "bug"... (IMHO, the UI is just as good as the DTivos, in some areas such as single button record, PIP in the Menus, In-Line Menu structures (vs re-drawing th entire screen)... ect...

And as for the 5 Minute change... it has been corrected in 10C8..
As I just tried it now, and a good number people (normal users) have been using it for about 3 weeks now, and people have reported that it is functioning.

Please give us some details on what was going on with your system at that time..
Where you back logged into the buffer? Or was it true LIVE TV watching... ect...

So which is it? 1047 or 10C8 and when did you get the update....
And what temperature is your system running at right now?


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Then you have a serious problem with your unit...
> 
> 1) As most season passes are recording, there are some that don't.. but most are functioning correctly
> 2) 30s SLIP has been there since 10B8 (about two months ago)
> ...


Dude, I don't have the time to debate the hieroglyphics and chromatids of geek equipment.

Tempertaure? You must be kidding right? Seriously?

You call them "feature differences". I call them pooh, crapola even.

Can you tell me why DirecTv keeps lying about offering the features folks are clamoring for? My guess is they are behind the curve and don't have the technical staff capable of delivering the goods.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> 1) As most season passes are recording, there are some that don't.. but most are functioning correctly


That sounds like a serious bug to me.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Dood said:


> The R15 is a steamimg pile of pooh. It has been out for a long time now and it still has ALOT of SERIOUS issues that they refuse to fix.


You must not have been around for the first TiVo's or DirecTiVos then. The R15 has been out for 9 months now. After 9 months with my first DSR6000, you could only record one thing at a time. Took 10 months for dual tuner to go Beta, and a year for it to roll out to the public. (UTV already had dual tuners)

How long is a long time? How long is long enough to fix something? At what point is it considered rushing to market? Is rushing always a bad thing?

After the first year, my DSR6000 became the most feature rich and reliable DVR I've ever had. During that first year, not so much.

Patience my friend.


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## itsmeitsmeitsme (Nov 13, 2003)

Dood said:


> Dude, I don't have the time to debate the hieroglyphics and chromatids of geek equipment.
> 
> Tempertaure? You must be kidding right? Seriously?
> 
> ...


Simmer down there Dood. I'm afraid you're about to blow a gasket. I've got both the Directivo and the R-15 and they both work fine for me.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> AbMagFab; When where you at your BIL's ? as I am curious which software version he was on.


It was this past week. Tried to find somewhere to check software version, but it wasn't too obvious, so I gave up (actually got distracted in the super slow "special features" areas, with ads and weather).

It's really a poor design overall. The reliability is obviously a deal-killer, but the usability is so poor, from the remote to the UI, that I can't see ever getting one (two tabs on the now playing list? on a TV screen?). It's in the same league as most cable DVR's. More like a digital-VCR than a real DVR.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I'll put my HR10-250 up against any DVR in the slowness category. I defy any manufacturer to give me a design that takes longer than 7 minutes to change one item in the SPM! It can't be done, NDS can try all they want, they'll never make it take longer!  [/tounge in cheek]


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> I'll put my HR10-250 up against any DVR in the slowness category. I defy any manufacturer to give me a design that takes longer than 7 minutes to change one item in the SPM! It can't be done, NDS can try all they want, they'll never make it take longer!  [/tounge in cheek]


I explicitly said 6.x Tivo software.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> You must not have been around for the first TiVo's or DirecTiVos then. The R15 has been out for 9 months now. After 9 months with my first DSR6000, you could only record one thing at a time. Took 10 months for dual tuner to go Beta, and a year for it to roll out to the public. (UTV already had dual tuners)
> 
> How long is a long time? How long is long enough to fix something? At what point is it considered rushing to market? Is rushing always a bad thing?
> 
> ...


So now we're comparing the R15 to six-year-old technology? Well, guess what else is about that old: XTV. Until NDS stops telling their investors that the R15 is XTV, I'm going to continue to assume it is.

In any case, I couldn't even evaluate this thing in my primary location. Limit of 50 "Series Links". Nuff said.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> You must not have been around for the first TiVo's or DirecTiVos then. The R15 has been out for 9 months now. After 9 months with my first DSR6000, you could only record one thing at a time. Took 10 months for dual tuner to go Beta, and a year for it to roll out to the public. (UTV already had dual tuners)
> 
> How long is a long time? How long is long enough to fix something? At what point is it considered rushing to market? Is rushing always a bad thing?
> 
> ...


Really the only thing added was dual tuners. Everything else was already there. And most importantly, it has always been 100% reliable (per the guide). It was always the most "feature rich and reliable DVR" as you state, nothing changed in features or reliability, with the exception of adding a second tuner.

The R15 is unreliable. This is, for me at least, a death knell for a DVR. And it's clearly a sign of being rushed to market.

And the usability of Tivo also hasn't changed. They nailed that out of the box as well. The R15, while looking pretty, is very unusable. I doubt they did any usability testing on it at all. It's more like a PC than a DVR (tabs? on a tv? you've got to be kidding).

Add to that you're comparing something over 6 years old with something released now. If the R15 can't do better than something 6 years ago, that's yet another huge problem for the R15.

And a really bad sign for the HR20.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Dood said:


> Dude, I don't have the time to debate the hieroglyphics and chromatids of geek equipment.
> 
> Tempertaure? You must be kidding right? Seriously?
> 
> ...


The reason I asked for the temperature, is that is one of the new features of the software release... and I want to confirm that you got a complete update of the unit.

Feature differences...are feature differences.... they are not bugs...
Just like one car can have a 6 cylinders, the next have 4

Where is DirecTV "lying" about offering features?


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I'm with you guys, don't get me wrong. I am using TiVo only products at this point.

I was just trying top give perspective. Dood said a long time, but it hasn't been that long. Dual tuners were huge, the biggest leap in DVR technology. TiVo came to market without them, to be in the market. UTV had them first and then ahhhhh for all of us. What I like about what DTV is doing is that they are trending in the right direction and on an even pace.

This same feeling, the upward trend, is what kept me (and likely some of you) feeling good about TiVo in software versions 1.2 and 1.3. Does anyone else remember that any channel lineup change used to require you to re-run guided setup? Guided setup also took over 5 hours on my first 14 hour TiVo. Horrible things, but the trend was there, it was obvious.

I think DTV is trending positively with their new piece and that makes me hopeful.

I still would rather, for now, have 6.3 on my HR10. (BTW, I knew what you meant ABmagfab, I was just bellyaching a little  )


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

rminsk said:


> That sounds like a serious bug to me.


It is an issue, and has steadily improved... to the point that at least with the latest build, there have not been any reports of missed Series Link recordings.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> It is an issue, and has steadily improved... to the point that at least with the latest build, there have not been any reports of missed Series Link recordings.


That's because even most of the biggest supporters (present company excluded) have gone back to their DTiVos.


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## Double-Tap (Apr 18, 2002)

BillyT2002 said:


> Earl - why did they mess with the peanut form factor? Everyone knows the peanut form factor is the perfect of remote control ergonomics. Shouldn't every future remote control be implementing the peanut form factor?


I don't think the peanut is perfect by any means. I can think of improvements like separate direction keys to replace the one-for-all pad. So many times I press left and end up going up and vice versa. Smaller thumbs up & down buttons on all TiVo remotes, because I don't use the thumbs buttons. The most used buttons should always be near center within easy reach of your thumb. Give me a remote with the Sony SVR-2000's ergonomics and key placement and I'd be much happier.


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## whynot83706 (Jul 27, 2006)

Can anyone tell me if there are any good things about R15 model? any features that are better than R10 based Tivo? and is DTV planning on making new DVR model.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

You can head over to www.dbstalk.com for a forum dedicated to the R15.

-) Picture in menu.. aka when you are in one of the full screen menu.. the current video program is in the top right corner
-) Single Button Record/SL setup... when you are in the guide, you can click the record button once for a record set, or twice to setup a Series Link
-) Free space indicator
-) Mark and Delete (bulk delete) from your now playing list
-) Quick Guide (bottom screen one line guide)
-) Recording of XM Music Channels
-) On Screen Caller-Id
-) Additional Parent controls (with the latest software version you can compltely block adult channels... not just block the playback of the programs)
-) Larger stock hard drive
-) Interactive compatible (Active Content, Mix Channels, What's Hot, YES Network)
-) Internal Destacker (populare for MDU customers)
-) While in the guide you can move by 12 hour increments (in additional to the next time slot), or you can jump to a specific Date/Hour _EDIT: The guide jump to date and hour can be done on a Tivo, but the 12 hour increments cannot_
Announced future features announced but not active yet
-) RF Remote Control
-) VOD (Push/Pull) Content
-) DirecTV2Go (connection to external media devices)
-) Sort your MyVod (equivilent to Now Playing) by more then just date and name

As of right now, DirecTV is working on the HD version (HR20).
There have been no announced plans for the next SD version.


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## whynot83706 (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> How long is a long time? How long is long enough to fix something? At what point is it considered rushing to market? Is rushing always a bad thing?
> 
> Patience my friend.


Have we as consumers sank so low that we accept crappy workmanship without fuss?

Well, I haven't. If I buy a car, the thing had better work right or it will be driven right back to the dealership. So why should I accert it with DirecTv and the R15?

If something isn't right, it shouildn't be placed on the market at all. It is bad business.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> It is an issue, and has steadily improved... to the point that at least with the latest build, there have not been any reports of missed Series Link recordings.


Wrong once again. Last week i had 2 missed recordings on all 3 of my units.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Dood said:


> If something isn't right, it shouildn't be placed on the market at all. It is bad business.


That wouldn't leave many products out there for us to buy. I'm pretty sure some people would lump every Tivo ever made into that category.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Dood said:


> Wrong once again. Last week i had 2 missed recordings on all 3 of my units.


Which recordings?

Either way, please do head over to www.dbstalk.com
As the moderators and admins of this forum, want the talk of the R15 over there.

We have some threads in place for you to report your missed recordings, lock ups, and other things.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> You can head over to www.dbstalk.com for a forum dedicated to the R15.
> 
> -) Picture in menu.. aka when you are in one of the full screen menu.. the current video program is in the top right corner
> -) Single Button Record/SL setup... when you are in the guide, you can click the record button once for a record set, or twice to setup a Series Link
> ...


While I am not a hater of the R-15 I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.

My biggest gripe is with the PIP while in guide or list. If you are recording two shows, you have no choice but to have the shows playing while you are looking at other things. This has ruined several shows for me since I got to see the end solution or plot twist or elimination before even watching the episode.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

innocentfreak said:


> While I am not a hater of the R-15 I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.
> 
> My biggest gripe is with the PIP while in guide or list. If you are recording two shows, you have no choice but to have the shows playing while you are looking at other things. This has ruined several shows for me since I got to see the end solution or plot twist or elimination before even watching the episode.


Well that would be a valid reason... but you could "play" a recording, and pause it.. (the PIP will play what is being played back)... as one way around that issue.

Which other ones do you disagree with... as I was trying not to put any "subjective" pieces into that list.... I was attempting to treat is a feature list


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> You can head over to www.dbstalk.com for a forum dedicated to the R15.
> 
> -) Picture in menu.. aka when you are in one of the full screen menu.. the current video program is in the top right corner
> -) Free space indicator
> ...


Picture in Menu - It kind of shrinks into it's slot, adding unnecessary time when going into menus or the guide. Plus, there's no way to turn it off, so if you don't want to see Live TV (which I often don't, as it will spoil it), you're screwed.

Free Space - It shows you % free, that's it. Which is pretty much a useless metric except to the geekiest of us.,

Quick Guide - I find this useless, and can't come up with real a scenario where I'd actually use it.

Recording XM - I was under the impression this was intentionally blocked on Tivo's due to licensing issues, and it a mistake on the R15 and will be removed (not a feature).

Parent Controls - You can block channels on the Tivo - am I missing your point?

Interactive Capable - This is one of those novelty features that is useless after you try it out. It's way too slow to be useful, and there's almost no penetration except in "special" areas.

Destacker - Won't this be obsolete with the 5 LNB dish?

Guide jumps - You can do this on the Tivo as well, just hit Info, and pick the date and time.

And the bottom line is the R15 is unreliable, with a poor user interface. Who cares about caller-id if it's not recording what I want?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Picture in Menu - It kind of shrinks into it's slot, adding unnecessary time when going into menus or the guide. Plus, there's no way to turn it off, so if you don't want to see Live TV (which I often don't, as it will spoil it), you're screwed.
> 
> Free Space - It shows you % free, that's it. Which is pretty much a useless metric except to the geekiest of us.,
> 
> ...


Picture in guide... what it adds about 2 seconds if that... (pause the LiveTV before going in)...... or hit pause once you are in.. Or use the one line guide on the bottom of the screen

Free Space... what the layman "non geek" can't tell that if the unit says it is 75% it is 75% full? I mean it doesn't take a lot of rocket sciense to know that 75% of 100hours is 75 hours... meaning you have about 25 hours left.

Recording XM... don't know about the licensing thing, but there have been 6 software release for the R15... so if they want to have turn it off by now, they would have.

Parent Controls... the TiVo will allow you to filter out the adult channels, but you can still get to the "listings" and description, but turning off the filters in the guide. ON the R15, there is an enhanced feature, that completely removes then from the system... almost as if the channels don't even exist in the channel stream. So the titles and descriptions are not even available.

Interactive Features.. .right now it is just nich... but the Mix channels are used by a lot of people, and the weather hook is pretty nice. What's hot, I check every once and a while... but some of the announced ones... such as the SuperFan stuff and some games to play on the system... they may be nich, but they are still a feature of the box that the DTivo doesn't have.

Destacker... no, not really... It really pay's dividens with people in MDU's that only have 1 stacked signal comming into the unit. They can use the standard $2 splitters, to utlize the dual tuners.. Instead of $50+ for destackers. Since the R15 only sees the the 101, 110, 119... and so long as your locals are on 101... it won't change. It will still work with the 5LNB, so long as you stack the signal to the R15.

Guide Jump.... didn't know that, never tried it... I still learn stuff to this day about that box.

Poor user interface to you...
But what is poor to you, might not be poor to the next person, or the next, or the next... So is the TiVo interface poor, because there have been users that have posted that it is poor or "cartoonish" ?

Reliability of the unit is improving... It really it is... seriously... 
Check the latest improvements and the comments over at www.dbstalk.com

There have been some of the harshest critics of the unit over there, that have pounded the unit since the day it was released (wolffpack for one)... and he is even saying the unit is improving...

The R15 has a long way to go to overcome it's bad first impression...


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Adding 2 unnecessary seconds every time adds up. And it's unnecessary, and just one of many examples of how the box hasn't been tested for usability. It's flashy, but not very usable.

Free Space doesn't mean hours, it's a very loose correlation given DirecTV's compression variances. So it's actually more misleading than informative. And there didn't appear to be any indication of what shows would drop off first, so if it's showing full, I have no clue what it will do next. So it's a questionable metric with no definitive action I can take.

I can remove channels on my Tivo, completely. They are gone (unless I add them back). What's the difference I'm not seeing?

Destacker sounds like it might be useful in an MDU, but with the 5 LNB dish, I can't stack anymore, and most homeowners don't stack anyway, so I guess this falls into the "niche" category again.

And Poor User Interface while subjective, is measurable. Usability is a real thing, and it's easy to measure. Even informally - drop someone in front of a Tivo, and an R15. See how long it takes them to "get" each box. Cartoonish has nothing to do with usability, and usability is far more important. But I agree, the R15 is flashier.

And "improving reliability" is a horrible thing to say about a DVR. This shouldn't even be something that is discussed - if there's one thing that trumps everything else with DVR's, it's reliability. This isn't a "feature" like folders, or even like speed of the guide. This is a fundamental part of what the DVR is. If it's not 100% reliable, then it's a door stop.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> Reliability of the unit is improving... It really it is... seriously...
> Check the latest improvements and the comments over at www.dbstalk.com


*Watching a Recording During a Storm*
Large annoying banner warning about no satellite signal _while watching recordings._

*R15 10d1??*
A developer build of the software that somehow some customers ended up with (second time this has happened).

*The most complete wipe ?*
One of the most vocal R15 supporters has recently gone sour and returned to his R10. Trying to get back to factory-clean for one last chance.

*Poll: Your trust factor in R15's recording shows*
Not very impressive results.

*Bug in SMX Ch104*
Mix channel users don't get bothered with "is it OK to change the channel" messages! Of course, that means they miss recordings.

*Record two shows, while watching a recorded one...*
Get prompted with "is it OK to change the channel" while watching a recording. Get dumped to live TV when you say it's OK.

*R15 overheating*
Several such threads, and several people have bypassed the defective temp controlled fan and wired it directly so it's always on.

*"Time Bar" gets stuck*

*Black screen during Fast Forward*

*2 Q's: Show didn't record, and autotune options*

*I feel your pain...*

*Way to block 10C8?*

*space remaining wrong?*

*Playback of recording rolls right in to next *
They may have stumbled onto batch playback on that one, a requested feature for years.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Adding 2 unnecessary seconds every time adds up. And it's unnecessary, and just one of many examples of how the box hasn't been tested for usability. It's flashy, but not very usable.


I said "If That" with regards to the 2 seconds.
In fact... If I hit the guide button on my R10.. and hit the select button after the "Category" selection page for the guide (which is very annoying, and I agree)... the guides come up in pretty much the same amount of time. I see NO delay in the guide coming up (or any of the other menu's) because of the PIP.



AbMagFab said:


> Free Space doesn't mean hours, it's a very loose correlation given DirecTV's compression variances. So it's actually more misleading than informative. And there didn't appear to be any indication of what shows would drop off first, so if it's showing full, I have no clue what it will do next. So it's a questionable metric with no definitive action I can take.


It is better then judging free space by basing it off the number of suggestions you have (or if they are being erased), or installing a hack so you can look at it from your computer.... It is something



AbMagFab said:


> I can remove channels on my Tivo, completely. They are gone (unless I add them back). What's the difference I'm not seeing?


Even though you remove them from your Channels I Recieve, you can still hit 595 and the channel WILL tune in.. might not let you watch it, but it will still tune in.
Go into the guide, you can change the filter to ALL channels... and then select 595, and you can see the descriptions for what is airing on Playboy.

For some parents, they don't even want that amount of access to the adult conent. (I am not one of those, but it is an option for those that want it)



AbMagFab said:


> Destacker sounds like it might be useful in an MDU, but with the 5 LNB dish, I can't stack anymore, and most homeowners don't stack anyway, so I guess this falls into the "niche" category again.


Some would say... DVR's are for a "niche" audience...
Just because it is a niche... that doesn't exclude it from the list of features of the unit....



AbMagFab said:


> And Poor User Interface while subjective, is measurable. Usability is a real thing, and it's easy to measure. Even informally - drop someone in front of a Tivo, and an R15. See how long it takes them to "get" each box. Cartoonish has nothing to do with usability, and usability is far more important. But I agree, the R15 is flashier.


If we where to drop two completely "virgins" to DVR's... I bet they could figure out both system. Hit play to play. Hit RW to Rewind... Hit Menu to go into the Menu... Once you are told... Hit TiVo->Now Playing to go to your list... or Hit LIST to go to your MyVod.... Hit channel up to change channels... Hit R to record... Hit Menu->Search to look up a program....



AbMagFab said:


> And "improving reliability" is a horrible thing to say about a DVR. This shouldn't even be something that is discussed - if there's one thing that trumps everything else with DVR's, it's reliability. This isn't a "feature" like folders, or even like speed of the guide. This is a fundamental part of what the DVR is. If it's not 100% reliable, then it's a door stop.


I am not going to deny that the unit had it's issues...
But all DirecTV can do is fix it... and with the latest software release, they are doing just that....


----------



## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

Face it, the R15 is junk. It has been since it was released and here we are NINE months later and it still has MAJOR issues.

The FACT is DirecTv rushed it to market and made their customers suffer for their incompetent tech knowledge.

To discount what you call as "features" is silly. Usability and dependability are the ONLY things that matters - And the R15 fails miserably in both areas.

I do not marry products, if they are flawed, they are flawed. 

Blind sheep fall off the cliff.


----------



## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> I am not going to deny that the unit had it's issues...
> But all DirecTV can do is fix it... and with the latest software release, they are doing just that....


See, it isn't hard to admit the facts. 

Still, DirecTv owes it's customer base better than this. The R15 should have never been placed on the market. They have caused their own problems because of the mighty $.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

ping said:


> *Watching a Recording During a Storm*
> Large annoying banner warning about no satellite signal _while watching recordings._
> 
> *R15 10d1??*
> ...


How did I miss your reply..

So we are going to list titles of threads... Okay

*Can't create Season Pass *
*My Directivo is erasing programs...*
*hd recording fails*
*Random Pixelation on Hughes HDVR2 *
*R10 Problems - Dish Problems! Please Help. *
*SIR-S4120R Locked Up For Good? *
*Why does my Directivo think I watch the spanish channels*
*again, searching for Satellite ... *
*HR10-250 stuttering *
*HR10-250 and Sammy DLP display issue *
*HDMI Problem *
*30 second skip turns to 5 seconds?*

Shall I continue into the non-DirecTV dominated forums (or go to the second page of those two forums)

Just as with these threads I listed... there is a "it is not effecting everyone"

Just like the threads you listed...


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Dood said:


> Face it, the R15 is junk. It has been since it was released and here we are NINE months later and it still has MAJOR issues.
> 
> The FACT is DirecTv rushed it to market and made their customers suffer for their incompetent tech knowledge.
> 
> ...


So... If it is flawed...
If it is the R15-300... i will trade it for an R10 that I have sitting in a closet.

But to say a "feature" diference, is a MAJOR issue with the box... is just as silly.

It maybe be failing for you.. Just like all these people in this forum, that have their TiVo's failing for them... or don't they count?


----------



## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

I've had TiVo as long as I can remember. Started out with a single box used for cable. The issues with every version of Tivo has been much less than those with the R15.

Do you own stock in DirecTv? Remember - Blind sheep............


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

I don't own stock (unless one of my 401k mutual funds has some of them in the portfolio).
And I don't get a paycheck from them...

I won't deny that the issues with the TiVo where as much as the R15... but there also wasn't as much microscoping but on the TiVo (nor forums like this weren't as popular) when they where first released (I had a Series 1 40hr Philips when I first got hooked on her some 5 years ago)

Seriously... Drop me a PM if you want to get rid of that R15 (if it is the 300 model, as I have two 500's already), and I will swap it for an R10..


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> Just like the threads you listed...


Not nearly. Did you even read them? No, you can't setup a season pass for something that is not a series. Yes, hardware sometimes fails. Sorry, the suggestions engine doesn't know that you don't speak Spanish. Hell, one of them was a condo owner who doesn't have the right exposure for a dish.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> II won't deny that the issues with the TiVo where as much as the R15... but there also wasn't as much microscoping but on the TiVo (nor forums like this weren't as popular) when they where first released (I had a Series 1 40hr Philips when I first got hooked on her some 5 years ago)


The DirecTiVo has always been very stable when it comes to season passes. Even back in the 2.5.x software days. If a DVR misses a recordings because of a bug then there is a problem. It is not "microscoping" as you put it. TiVo has set a pretty high standard for reliability and if another DVR can not hit that standard then the other DVR is not useful for me.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

ping said:


> Not nearly. Did you even read them? No, you can't setup a season pass for something that is not a series. Yes, hardware sometimes fails. Sorry, the suggestions engine doesn't know that you don't speak Spanish. Hell, one of them was a condo owner who doesn't have the right exposure for a dish.


(I have read them them, all of them... and I have read all the ones you listed on the R15)

But that is the point I am trying to make.... there is a "story" behind all of them.
some of the ones you listed for the R15 are valid errors that users are having... but not one of them is happening to ALL users......

The R15 has to get the point that the TiVo is at...
Where we think hardware, dish, contract, ect..... something else other then the software first...


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

rminsk said:


> The DirecTiVo has always been very stable when it comes to season passes. Even back in the 2.5.x software days. If a DVR misses a recordings because of a bug then there is a problem. It is not "microscoping" as you put it. TiVo has set a pretty high standard for reliability and if another DVR can not hit that standard then the other DVR is not useful for me.


I am not saying the R15 didn't have issues... I am just saying... that so many eyes where on the unit... that not one hiccup didn't get by with out a thread or article being written on it....

It is going to take a long time (if ever) for the R15 to get past it very shakey start.


----------



## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

And hopefully DirecTV has learned it's lesson. I'm hoping that's wqhy they keep post-poning the new HD DVR based on the R15. I hope they post-pone it until it is as 99% reliable as my HR10-250 is regarding recording what it is supposed to and recording "first run only" when you specify to do so.


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Well that would be a valid reason... but you could "play" a recording, and pause it.. (the PIP will play what is being played back)... as one way around that issue.
> 
> Which other ones do you disagree with... as I was trying not to put any "subjective" pieces into that list.... I was attempting to treat is a feature list


True, but I still have to go into the list to select a show while the shows currently recording are still playing. Like last night I sat down to watch something. I turned the tv on and the R-15 on then went into list. As soon as my list pulled up I got to see the two people standing their on Rockstar while waiting to see who will be eliminated. While not majorly ruining the show it is a little disappointing like reading a spoiler that wasn't flagged. I didn't even have time to pick a show. Now I realize this could happen on the Tivo also, but I tend to always hit the Tivo button as I turn on the tv to go right into my recordings.

I will agree they are features you listed but I don't feel they are all good which is what the post had asked. Well maybe good isn't correct, but I don't feel they work consistently.

*-) Single Button Record/SL setup... when you are in the guide, you can click the record button once for a record set, or twice to setup a Series Link*
I have issues with this one all the time. Single button works fine, but the double always gives me problems. You can't double click if it is the show currently on and two other shows are recording. It gives me the option to cancel 1 or cancel 2 but not record next. Also if I have two recordings schedueled already at a later time it tends not to add the series link for me.

*-) On Screen Caller-Id*
mine never pops up until after I answer the phone. Maybe it is because I have fiber optic lines now instead of copper, but if I don't answer it doesn't show and if I do only then does it display the number that called.

Those are my main gripes without being subjective about the usefullness of the others. I must say the R-15 has improved but I still would not depend on it as my only recorder.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

innocentfreak said:


> *-) Single Button Record/SL setup... when you are in the guide, you can click the record button once for a record set, or twice to setup a Series Link*
> I have issues with this one all the time. Single button works fine, but the double always gives me problems. You can't double click if it is the show currently on and two other shows are recording. It gives me the option to cancel 1 or cancel 2 but not record next. Also if I have two recordings schedueled already at a later time it tends not to add the series link for me.


In 10C8 they updated that feature, you will now be given an option to schedule the Series Link at a lower priority then the two it is conflicting with.



innocentfreak said:


> *-) On Screen Caller-Id*
> mine never pops up until after I answer the phone. Maybe it is because I have fiber optic lines now instead of copper, but if I don't answer it doesn't show and if I do only then does it display the number that called.
> 
> Those are my main gripes without being subjective about the usefullness of the others. I must say the R-15 has improved but I still would not depend on it as my only recorder.


Do other caller-id devices in your work the same way?


----------



## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> In 10C8 they updated that feature, you will now be given an option to schedule the Series Link at a lower priority then the two it is conflicting with.
> 
> Do other caller-id devices in your work the same way?


I assume I don't have that version yet then. I haven't kept up with the patch news and for the life of me can't even remember how to check which version I am running.
EDIT: Found it I think. Running 1044 past upgrade 10B8 on 5/3/06 if I read the screen right.

Not that I know of but then I only use the ones built into my phone. I haven't tried with an external unit.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Seriously... Drop me a PM if you want to get rid of that R15 (if it is the 300 model, as I have two 500's already), and I will swap it for an R10..


Seriously... I just placed all three in the weekly trash. I had ordered 3 DirecTv Tivo units from weaknees and they arrived this afternoon. Perhaps the trashman can get get some scrap copper out of the junky R15's.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

1044 was the original version.
10B8 is the release from about 6-8 weeks ago.
10C8 is the version you are waiting for (which is rolling out now)

For future version information, check out www.dbstalk.com We maintain a section that contains the release notes for each release... as well as discussion threads on the release, error tracking, ect...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Dood said:


> Seriously... I just placed all three in the weekly trash. I had ordered 3 DirecTv Tivo units from weaknees and they arrived this afternoon. Perhaps the trashman can get get some scrap copper out of the junky R15's.


Serious? Oh well then... too bad... I would have to at least get my hands on a system that has problems.

You had at least 3 160gb hard drives in there could have fetched you around $30-$50 a pop... or at least updated any DTivo you purcahse to ~ 144 hours each... (with out spending the premium price that weakness charges for pre-upgraded units).

Oh well. Enjoy your DTivos.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Dood said:


> Seriously... I just placed all three in the weekly trash. I had ordered 3 DirecTv Tivo units from weaknees and they arrived this afternoon. Perhaps the trashman can get get some scrap copper out of the junky R15's.


Yeah I would have taken them also just because I need new recievers for my new roommates. They have never experienced Tivo so I don't want them to get hooked and possibly steal mine when they move out like my last roommate almost did.

Yeah I am on dbstalk also as Brennok. I just don't make it over there as much since I use the R-15 in the family room more for live tv and a backup.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Serious? Oh well then... too bad... I would have to at least get my hands on a system that has problems.
> 
> You had at least 3 160gb hard drives in there could have fetched you around $30-$50 a pop... or at least updated any DTivo you purcahse to 160hours each... (with out spending the premium price that weakness charges for pre-upgraded units).
> 
> Oh well. Enjoy your DTivos.


Money is not an issue with me. My expectations far outweigh money well spent.

You see, I will spent whatever it takes for high tech. But the R15 is as low tech as it gets. Perhaps some people have ajusted their life to accept low standards - I have not, nor will I.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah I would have taken them also just because I need new recievers for my new roommates. They have never experienced Tivo so I don't want them to get hooked and possibly steal mine when they move out like my last roommate almost did.
> 
> Yeah I am on dbstalk also as Brennok. I just don't make it over there as much since I use the R-15 in the family room more for live tv and a backup.


Had I known someone would value the R15, I would have saved them. It is too late now - Sorry.

BTW - Weaknees is no longer selling the R15 - You know why right? TOO many complaints and TOO many problems. Weaknees has a great reputation because they recognize an inferior product when they see one.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Dood said:


> Money is not an issue with me. My expectations far outweigh money well spent.
> 
> You see, I will spent whatever it takes for high tech. But the R15 is as low tech as it gets. Perhaps some people have ajusted their life to accept low standards - I have not, nor will I.


I'll remember that when I look at my "cheap low standard" worth of electronics in my living room.. (50" PIO Plasma, Onko reciever, HDMI DVD Player, three DVRs, 7.1 surround sound, HMC PC)....

Glad you have a bottom less pockets...

Enjoy your DTivos..


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Dood said:


> Had I known someone would value the R15, I would have saved them. It is too late now - Sorry.
> 
> BTW - Weaknees is no longer selling the R15 - You know why right? TOO many complaints and TOO many problems. Weaknees has a great reputation because they recognize an inferior product when they see one.


And the fact they couldn't sell them "upgraded" at a premium price, had ZERO to do with it... And that they as a retailer wheren't getting the same $$ from DirecTV for selling the units (once the leasing programming kicked in).

Yes... I have read their "offical" stance on why they discontinued carrying it some 6 months ago... when I think we where still on the release version of the software.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

Bottomless not bottom less.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> I'll remember that when I look at my "cheap low standard" worth of electronics in my living room.. (50" PIO Plasma, Onko reciever, HDMI DVD Player, three DVRs, 7.1 surround sound, HMC PC)....
> 
> Glad you have a bottom less pockets...
> 
> Enjoy your DTivos..


Son, I am sure you have a nice setup. I don't know even know what I have, I have people buy it and set it up, then their job is to keep it all running.

I on the other hand, like to complain. It's a job, but someone has to do it.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Even if the R15 because 100% reliable, the lack of Wish Lists would be a deal killer for me. I LOVE being able to put in the name of some random old movie or TV show and then checking the Now Playing list some months later and there it is.

Also, how does the R15 handle overshoot when you're FF through a commercial? Do you have to manually run it back to the end of the commercial? That would suck.

Finally, the lack of dual buffers sounds like an extreme PITA. I would not like that at all.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

macquariumguy said:


> Even if the R15 because 100% reliable, the lack of Wish Lists would be a deal killer for me. I LOVE being able to put in the name of some random old movie or TV show and then checking the Now Playing list some months later and there it is.


Well unless TiVo starts to brakeup it's software packages, into smaller components... Then the R15 and the HR20 (and probably the HMC) won't be for you. As the Wishlist component is TiVo's patent.

DirecTV mentioned a while back that they where working on something like recommendations or something like that... but I haven't heard any more details or time frames on it.... doubt it will work like wishlists though..



macquariumguy said:


> Also, how does the R15 handle overshoot when you're FF through a commercial? Do you have to manually run it back to the end of the commercial? That would suck.


If you are FFing, instead of hitting Play to restart playback, you can hit the "jump back" button to exit FF. It will stop the FF, kick back 3-6 seconds.. and start playback... pretty much like a fixed overshoot correction.

The auto-correction we have today on the TiVo's, is also patented by them... And in that particular patent, they have covered at least 4 if not more different methods to do "auto-correction"... so again, unless they start to split up their software or license their patents....



macquariumguy said:


> Finally, the lack of dual buffers sounds like an extreme PITA. I would not like that at all.


I would agree with you somewhat... I do miss that feature. because I was so used to it... Over the last 8 months... 
But now that they have fixed buffering while watching playback of a recorded/recording program... it is not so bad (As you can achieve the same results by just "recording" your second "buffer")... now they just have to fix it a little more so you can PAUSE it, go to the other recording/tuner, and then go back.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Hey Earl, what does the R15 offer in the way of cute window clings? I'd hate to show up at a meet without our flags flying!


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

Earl,

Didn't the latest d* - tivo agreement have something in there saying neither company could sue the other for patent infringement? I thought this indicated that directv was going to be able to add some of the tivo features to the R15?

BTW, that YES free R15 offer is burning a whole in my pocket. I'm just trying to figure out how to convince myself I need it and where I'd hook it up.


----------



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Which recordings?
> 
> Either way, please do head over to www.dbstalk.com
> As the moderators and admins of this forum, want the talk of the R15 over there.
> ...


I don't know why they would want the R15 talk over there when everytime I turn around there's a forum on how TiVo sucks and ___ is better.. (vip622, comcast DVR, etc..)


----------



## Rkkeller (May 13, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Free Space doesn't mean hours, it's a very loose correlation given DirecTV's compression variances.


I know you want to drag things out with Earl but the free space indicator has been one of the most asked about features to be added to TiVos. Its also probably one of the most asked questions from new users.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DirecTiVos have a free space indicator, it's called the Suggestions folder.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> I don't know why they would want the R15 talk over there when everytime I turn around there's a forum on how TiVo sucks and ___ is better.. (vip622, comcast DVR, etc..)




That still goes on.. and probable will for ever.
But inside the dedicated R15 forum (and in general most of the DirecTV forums), It is a fairly balanced discussion... on the unit.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

macquariumguy said:


> Hey Earl, what does the R15 offer in the way of cute window clings? I'd hate to show up at a meet without our flags flying!
> [


I'm sure you could get a DirecTV sticker if you wanted to...


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

skaeight said:


> Earl,
> 
> Didn't the latest d* - tivo agreement have something in there saying neither company could sue the other for patent infringement? I thought this indicated that directv was going to be able to add some of the tivo features to the R15?
> 
> BTW, that YES free R15 offer is burning a whole in my pocket. I'm just trying to figure out how to convince myself I need it and where I'd hook it up.


The agreement was for them not to sue... but I don't think it was a blanket license to USE the technology in other products.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Rkkeller said:


> I know you want to drag things out with Earl but the free space indicator has been one of the most asked about features to be added to TiVos. Its also probably one of the most asked questions from new users.





macquariumguy said:


> DirecTiVos have a free space indicator, it's called the Suggestions folder.




Maybe instead of a bar, it should be a PIE chart...


----------



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> But inside the dedicated R15 forum (and in general most of the DirecTV forums), It is a fairly balanced discussion... on the unit.


Good point...

But just to comment on the R15, My parents got two of them, they found the interface to be clunky.

They kept calling me and having never used one I was not very helpful. But it seemed that they were trying to do VERY simple things that were very difficult.

For example, setting a series link for a novice would be much easier on my TiVo. When I record in the guide it asks me whether I want this episode or a series. She was tabbing through menus and god knows what. Yes I realize their are shortcuts, but she couldn't figure it out for a good 2 hours after reading the book.

Also she started telling me that she was getting FLOODED with reruns, it was recording EVERYTHING even though she selected first run. She called directv, and the condescending CSR said "Did you READ The manuel?" She said THREE TIMES, and the manual is WRONG. After getting transferred, their solution was to set a manual time based recording causing all kinds of series conflicts.

Her other criticism was that the manual screenshots were different than the book! Great confuse them even more!! Nice going!

The big plus with TiVo is that it just does what it's supposed to. Novices don't need to worry about software versions, bug fixes, bla bla bla. I've never heard of a TiVo user complaining that Season passes don't record, or their getting all the reruns when they click first run. Sure TiVo's have had bugs, but their basic functions always have worked right...

They came from a DISH PVR 501, and think the R15 is MUCH worse. That's pretty sad.....


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

The manual is very outdated (Was the day it was released)... especially based on the latest builds... a lot of the screen shots are not going to match.

For future reference... to set a Series Link for a recording... while in the guide, just hit the R button twice (till it appears as R))) )

And yes, it does still have "issues" with the First Run vs Repeat... It has been improving... but it is still far from perfect.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> And yes, it does still have "issues" with the First Run vs Repeat... It has been improving... but it is still far from perfect.


The understatement of the year.

Why is it so hard for you to admit the R15 sucks?

Funny stuff.


----------



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Dood said:


> The understatement of the year.
> 
> Why is it so hard for you to admit the R15 sucks?
> 
> Funny stuff.


Why do I have to agree with *your* opinion of the box?
I am not allowed to have my opinion on it? Or don't I have enough money to throw around?

It is your choice do to what you want with your money, and your equipment.
If you don't like the R15... so be it...

Your right, this thread is humors....
Just as funny as someone conviently throwing out $300 in equipment...
Especially when there is an offer on the table for some of them..

_Edit: I was thinking about this last night... If you have the money you say you do... Why did you get the R15's, and not the HR10-250s to go along with the obvious HD TV's you must have... since you are willing to spend what ever it takes to enjoy TV_


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## itsmeitsmeitsme (Nov 13, 2003)

Dood said:


> The understatement of the year.
> 
> Why is it so hard for you to admit the R15 sucks?
> 
> Funny stuff.


As i've stated many times..........I have both and they both do the job. Take a chill pill and get off your high horse please.


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## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> The manual is very outdated (Was the day it was released)... especially based on the latest builds... a lot of the screen shots are not going to match.


And that, more than any current or past bug or any "feature difference", is what bothers me the most. They don't appear to have spent enough time on design, and they are making significant design changes on a released product. That is not a sustainable software process. For open source maybe (even there, depending on the project, it wouldn't be tolerated). But not for a consumer electronics appliance.


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## HAPKOM (Jul 28, 2006)

im new to this forum, so please no kicking 
i've just signed up with directv and got two r15-500's
i've left "other-dish-guys" where i had their dvdr unit
what can i say, r15 is crap if you compare it to the other unit
menu, software, layout, everything about this unit and its
user-friendlyness is nowhere near dish's 625. i've already miss it
but directv is a better option for me, thus i will take it like a man

i have to agree, this unit seems to me incomplete, looks like they
have rushed it to the market and we, the users, have to pay for it
hopefully with later software upgrades they will fix all of their errors
however, i doubt that it would be possible to satisfy everyone

one more point, about manuals, i have to agree with that fact. they need
to ship updated manuals with their units. i was going crazy when i was 
setting up, some of the screens were not there, and i thought that i've
got bad harware, so i've called them up and i was told that those manuals
are a bit oldet than hardware that i have, so "we appologise" but you can
check our site for newer version, which we dont have up there yet.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

HapKom...

Do head over to www.dbstalk.com to watch for software update information, and to address any of the issues you have.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> I'm sure you could get a DirecTV sticker if you wanted to...


But do they have a plush doll live my TiVo plush doll?  








or slippers?   









DirecTV needs to get on the ball if they expect to keep up with the TiVo...

BTW, I do have a doll and some slippers.  I did not buy them myself.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> The manual is very outdated (Was the day it was released)... especially based on the latest builds... a lot of the screen shots are not going to match.


Well I can understand that, but the condescending csr's that talk down to people about how they should read the manual to a novice that's just trying to make the thing work should ALSO understand that...

Why would the manual be outdated the day it's released? Do they WANT people to get frustrated and pissed? The point of the manuel is that it's supposed to tell you how to use the thing! Instead it's just confusing!


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Why do I have to agree with *your* opinion of the box?
> I am not allowed to have my opinion on it? Or don't I have enough money to throw around?
> 
> It is your choice do to what you want with your money, and your equipment.
> ...


1. You don't have to agree with my opinion, yet my opinion is the majority.

2. What I do with my money is my business. If I want to eat nickels and crap quarters, so be it.

3. The crappy R15's came with the home I bought. Please, don't waste your time trying to figure out my life, it is a waste of your time don't you think? But then again with close to 9000 posts.........

Have a good life being an R15 sheep. The suits at DirecTv love people like you, they really do.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Dood said:


> Have a good life being an R15 sheep. The suits at DirecTv love people like you, they really do.


You're just showing your ass now. I would consider Earl to be a great resource and an asset to TiVoCommunity and a generally nice guy. He has put more real in formation into play about the R15 for people to make up their own minds than anyone else.

You on the other hand, not so much. You just ***** and argue.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I learned a long time ago, that if you are going to complain about something, it is best to provide a solution or two.

Also:
It is best to never burn the bridges behind you.
Never appear overly surprised about anything.
If you move fast, people will get get the impression that you're very busy.

I live by these rules.


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## Dood (Feb 21, 2003)

macquariumguy said:


> You're just showing your ass now. I would consider Earl to be a great resource and an asset to TiVoCommunity and a generally nice guy. He has put more real in formation into play about the R15 for people to make up their own minds than anyone else.
> 
> You on the other hand, not so much. You just ***** and argue.


No doubt that Earl has been a huge asset, not saying he isn't. My contention is that sticking up for an inferior product is asinine. It makes one wonder what his affliation is with DirecTv. There is not one single product on the market that I would throw all my efforts behind. Either a product is well made and serves the masses well, or it doesn't. There is no in-between.

Saying that fixes have come and helped, and fixes are on the way just proves my point. The R15 was rushed to market and the customers have suffered because of it.

Have a nice day.


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## Jerry_K (Feb 7, 2002)

Because I can tweak my DTivo's I am hooked on them. 

From what I read the R15 is different and has some bugs. 

I had a Dishplayer, wonderful DVR for me before Dish tried to "fix" it. Not useful for the lovely wife at all. And once it was "fixed" three of them never worked again either as useful DVRs or many times as tuners at all. Each successive "fix" only made them worse. I got DTivos, set them up, upgraded the hard drives, and never had one glitch for a period of years. Got new to me Series 2's, fortuitously before they disappeared, upgraded four, networked them and will never have another DVR that cannot be networked.


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## mtchamp (May 15, 2001)

As far as the R15, I've seen more returns at my local Best Buy then new ones on the shelf. I have DirecTV with DirecTiVos and Lifetime and I finally decided to dump the dish yesterday for the $400 rebate and go back to Comcast for the S3 TiVo. Installation is August 21st and hopefully close to the new S3 rollout.

I waited and waited and waited for a full featured DirecTiVo and even bought standard DirecTV receivers to work with SA TiVos for all the new TiVoToGo features. In my opinion, DirecTV have completely lost their mind taking the direction they did with DVR service. If there was an S3 type DVR coming out from TiVo that would work with DirecTV, I would stick around.

I thought DirecTV might change their mind about the R15 from all the problems I've read about them and start building a new DirecTiVo. I was encouraged that DirecTV made a new 3 year agreement with TiVo in March but it looks like it's going to be just to preserve the current TiVo service as it is no matter how much business they lose.

I'm now looking forward to using the new HD S3 TiVo with all the PMP, PC and broadband download and interactive features it's coming with. So I'll save $25 a month and I'll get my MSD on the new S3 and I think I'll be very happy. Besides, FIOS TV might be available in the next 2 years around here and I'll have an competitively priced alternate TiVo compatible choice.

After Comcast starts rolling out TiVo software to Moto boxes, and if that's successful at increasing the subscriber base, they might also do a ComcastTiVo with their new box supplier, Panasonic and hopefully not cripple any of the TiVo features, but I'm not counting on the full TiVo experience with anything but an S3.

Having said that, I'm thinking I could wait just a little bit on the S3 to see what Comcast does with the TiVo rollout and see if they can come close to the S3 features for a reasonable monthly fee. Nah, I doubt it.


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

It's not up to you on how long to wait at this point mtchamp. The wait is for either one to come to market.


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## JohnUSNSD (Jul 27, 2006)

Direct TV does NOT offer any of the SD Direct TV TiVo models anymore (R10, Samsung, etc)..if you have a SD Direct TV TiVo that you want replaced----or, you want to add an additional SD Direct TV TiVo receiver---then, get one of EBay for < $100. Even though the Direct TV Customer Svc rep states "we still have TiVo brand units"---they are talking about the HD level....not SD. They will send you a crappy R15 if you try to replace a TiVo brand SD unit.

I got a S4040 for $55 and a S4080 for $88 on Ebay last month----both work perfectly!

John


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