# Dish bashing TiVo in a commercial?



## LoREvanescence (Jun 19, 2007)

I was just turned my tv on, and all the sudden there is a commercial for Dish on. But in that commercial they took a whack at TiVo, here is a direct quote form the commercial:

"And try our Dish HD-DVR, it's better than TiVo!"

I couldn't believe what I heard, so I backed up and took a second take with CC on. And I heard it right

I take that as a insult to my TiVo, I love my TiVo. I hate when companies with inferior products only can promote there products by bather there competitors.

I have never used a a Dish DVR, but form what they showed in the commercial the UI looks horrid.


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## ToddNeedsTiVo (Sep 2, 2003)

I've heard a radio commercial lately that says something to the effect of "Dish DVR...rated better than TiVo by CNet."


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

When we got our at&t DVR the guy installing it said it was better then tivo. It isn't. The search sucks, it doesn't have folders, doesn't have a wishlist, and doesn't have suggestions.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

*Dish bashing TiVo in a commercial?*

Sorry, but TiVo was not "bashed" in the Dish DVR commercial. An opinion that says that Dish's DVR is better isn't even a negative statement about TiVo, much less bashing Tivo.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> *Dish bashing TiVo in a commercial?*
> 
> Sorry, but TiVo was not "bashed" in the Dish DVR commercial. An opinion that says that Dish's DVR is better isn't even a negative statement about TiVo, much less bashing Tivo.


not to mention that was the opinion of an editor at Cnet.com backed up by the usual review of features and a side by side comaprison. This one TiVo will have to take on the chin. Maybe they can look at the VIP622 and figure out how to put some of the higher rated features in the TiVo DVR and make it better :up:

PS - I did read in another thread that the DISH DVR does not keep the live buffer going while you watch a recording. So the patented Time warp technology was certainly not infringed on the VIP 622


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

I've got a ViP522... (as far as I know the UI is the same for both) it's not bad. The fact is there are things that both TiVo and the ViPs do better than the other. The UI is probably the most usable of any "generic" DVR that I've used, but not as much as a TiVo... but it has some nifty features. 120 minute live TV buffer. 300x fast forward (yes, I typed 300). Seperate outputs for each tuner. It doesn't have suggestions or swivel search or any music & photo integration.

The term "better" is fairly loose...


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## hockeyinsd (Sep 23, 2005)

I'm sure I was the one that mentioned no buffer when watching a recording, drives me crazy! And as I've stated before, the 622 is pretty solid, not a Tivo, but way better than every other DVR I've tried. I wondered how CNET rated it better than a Tivo, and I have to believe that they were comparing just straight DVR functions. Until you spend a few months with a Tivo, you don't really get deep into just how functional a tivo is. Heck, I went over a month before I learned of the 30 sec. skip feature on the Tivo. The only place the 622 has tivo beat is on the x300 ff, the longer buffer time and the ability to record from 3 tuners (2 satellite + 1 OTA). That said, after spending 6 months with my 622, I'm at the point where if cox had as many HD channels as Dish (well, at least the ones I watch) and Cable Cards could receive the Center Ice package, I'd drop Dish like a bad habit. As a tivo user for over 4 years before I got the 622 (still have a S2 in the bedroom), my overall impression is that the 622 does its job, doesn't bug me too often, but still leaves me saying, "man, I wish tivo worked with Dish."


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## FrodoB (Jan 3, 2005)

300x fast forward? How the heck would you know when to stop fast forwarding within, say, 15 minutes of the right moment? 

(Even with that, I think I'd rate "Skip to Tick" as a better option, at least for me, simply because you can still, you know, see action that you're fast forwarding through...  )


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

hockeyinsd said:


> I wondered how CNET rated it better than a Tivo, and I have to believe that they were comparing just straight DVR functions. Until you spend a few months with a Tivo, you don't really get deep into just how functional a tivo is. Heck, I went over a month before I learned of the 30 sec. skip feature on the Tivo. The only place the 622 has tivo beat is on the x300 ff, the longer buffer time and the ability to record from 3 tuners (2 satellite + 1 OTA).


Dish's offering seems credible as just that, a DVR. Doesn't Dish's 622 provide separate outputs which allow 2 TV's to be tuned to different programs? What is Dish's monthly charge for a dual DVR? Are Dish DVR's as stable and reliable as TiVos? A lotta' users, myself included, just want a * DVR*, not "more than a DVR"!

_"Despite all the adulation TiVo receives, DVR owners aren't really attached to a single brand, according to the LRG study. The name on the front of the box isn't important to the majority of consumers. They're just as happy to have a Scientific Atlanta or Motorola box. In fact, Leichtman thinks that TiVo is in a tough spot. "TiVo has become a generic name, like Kleenex," he told Ars. "They're not the ones pushing the DVR into the home. They have to figure out a way to use their powerful brand name and move it from a generic to a premium device." TiVo hopes that the new $299 TiVo HD will do exactly that.

The study also confirms some of the networks' worst fears. Even though most DVR owners make relatively modest use of their devices45 percent of them record five or fewer programs per week84 percent of DVR denizens say that being able to skip ads is "very important." 8 percent of DVR owners say that being able to fast-forward through commercials is the best part of owning one of the devices."_


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

FrodoB said:


> 300x fast forward? How the heck would you know when to stop fast forwarding within, say, 15 minutes of the right moment?
> 
> (Even with that, I think I'd rate "Skip to Tick" as a better option, at least for me, simply because you can still, you know, see action that you're fast forwarding through...  )


 Well, I use it mostly for a manual timer that I have on every sunday. It records a 3.5 hour block of programming (adult swim on cartoon network). Sometimes I watch the first hour or so live, so when I go to watch the rest I need to get through it pretty quick. I basically just fast forward to a commercial break before the show I want to watch and then use the 30 sec. skip from there. It's handy...

It's also great when you accidentally start a recording over from the beginning instead of resuming it.


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## ampm99 (Feb 17, 2003)

I bet Dish does a lot of advertising/promotion with CNET
They have always been known for that. They don't lie. They just give the benefit of the doubt to their sponsors. I worked for a large computer company that was solicited by CNET with the promise of favorable reviews.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

TiVo Troll said:


> Dish's offering seems credible as just that, a DVR. Doesn't Dish's 622 provide separate outputs which allow 2 TV's to be tuned to different programs? What is Dish's monthly charge for a dual DVR? Are Dish DVR's as stable and reliable as TiVos? A lotta' users, myself included, just want a * DVR*, not "more than a DVR"!


I'm only paying $5/month for my 522. It was an easy choice for me to make... I'm sure the 622 is more though, plus the extra cost of the HD tier. And yes, you're right about the dual outputs. There are two modes I can use the receiver in. Either two room, or one room. In one room mode, the second outputs and second RF remote don't work, but the second tuner can be used PIP. The coax out on the second tuner is pretty strong, as I've got it split to three seperate TVs without the use of an amp and no noticeable signal loss. Long cable runs too...


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## davmoo (Dec 14, 2007)

I came upon this thread while searching for something else. And I so wanted to reply, I signed up for this forum just so I could 

I am both a Dish Network (8 years) and TiVo (2 years) customer. I have, and have used, Dish Network DVRs.

Anyone who says a Dish Network DVR is better than TiVo is either sniffing glue or has never used a TiVo for more than two days. And for anyone who disagrees, the first response I am going to make is to ask you how you transfer a recorded program from your Dish DVR to your PC or how you burn it on a DVD without having to play the program back in real time in to another DVD recorder.

For those of you who don't have experience with a Dish DVR, I'll go ahead and tell you that copying programs to a PC is not directly supported by the Dish offerings. If you really want to do so, your only choices are either play the recorded program back in real time and broadcast it in to a PC tuner card, or pull the hard drive out of your Dish DVR (and Dish highly frowns upon this), put it in your computer, and run software from the net to pull off the recordings. Even the new top of the line Dish DVRs do not allow transfer of the programs. The best you can do is an external eSATA hard drive for additional storage (which still cannot be read by a PC or other device). If you call having to do stuff like that "better than TiVo", you obviously have a very different interpretation of "better" than I do.

Right now, I'm happy with standard programming. But in another year I see an addition of an HD subscription. And if Dish does not either produce a receiver that allows me to freely move, watch, and archive programs on a PC, or produce an HD receiver that will work with a TiVo, then I will be moving to cable (which was not available in my (rural) area when I first moved here, which is why I initially went with Dish, but it is now).


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

If bugs in HD Tivo's was the basis for any bashing, I'd agree with them.


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## flatcurve (Sep 27, 2007)

davmoo said:


> I came upon this thread while searching for something else. And I so wanted to reply, I signed up for this forum just so I could
> 
> I am both a Dish Network (8 years) and TiVo (2 years) customer. I have, and have used, Dish Network DVRs.
> 
> ...


Like I said earlier, better is a loose term. You find content transferability important, so therefore the TiVo is better in your eyes. For those that don't care about it, then it doesn't matter. It's like trying to objectively say that chocolate is better than vanilla. You can't. They're two different beasts and each one has something on the other. I love the TiVo for certain things, and the ViP for others. We're talking about subjective points of view here. It's basically the PC vs. Mac / Ford vs Chevy / Bud vs. Miller debate. Totally pointless.

Dish will never allow content transfer, btw.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BTW, the DISH newspaper ads have been saying this for *weeks*, if not months if not longer.

(The TV commercials have probably been on a long time too, but I don't see most commercials.... I have a Tivo... heh..)


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## JaneiR36 (Oct 18, 2007)

TiVo Troll said:


> _[...]In fact, Leichtman thinks that TiVo is in a tough spot. "TiVo has become a generic name, like Kleenex," he told Ars. _


_

This is too true! I was 10 mintues into a conversation with a coworker before I realized he kept calling his DirecTV DVR a "TiVo." I was so confused when he said it was the generic one you got when you signed up for DirecTV service!

The main reason I didn't get the cable company's DVR was because of the cost ($15 /month), and a few extra things I heard you could do with the TiVo. But I honestly do very few of those things now. I tried transfering content to my computer (and even bought a new computer partly so I could do this!!) but wasn't impressed with the transfer speed. If a DVR cost only $5/mo with my cable provider, I almost certainly would have got it over TiVo. The only benefit I can really see now, is that I could swap out my hard drive for a larger one, whereas DVR renters would be less inclined to do so, just so they do not get charged for any damages to the box.

I have recorded a show from the computer TV listings exactly once. I was really nervous about this because I didn't know if it would bump of an existing program.

Wish lists / swivel searches would be better if they could somehow be incorporated with TiVo suggestions. I really don't need my TV watching to be that complex! The purpose of this box to me is to simplify!

I also read about more things you could do with the TiVo hardware / service every so often, but I like most people only understand about 5% of what I read about all that  I can totally believe people just want a DVR and not necessarily anything special. Going back to regular TV, on the other hand, would just mean I'd keep missing my all favorite programs like I used to before I got TiVo _


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

As a DVR for time-shifting, I will say that the TiVo is far more usable than the Motorola DCT-6412. The DCT has the same drive size as the HD, but it was a pain to set up for recordings. I think we averaged about 3 hours/week of recording with it. We still did most of our recording in SD on TiVo S2's. With the HD and S3, we're averaging more like 15-20 hours a week (saving up for the end of football season).


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## davmoo (Dec 14, 2007)

I will concede that a Dish Network DVR does have one (and only one, in my opinion) advantage over a TiVo. The Dish box has the satellite receiver and the DVR combined, so there are no hassles with IR cables and making sure the DVR can properly change channels, the satellite box is close enough to the TiVo, TiVo knows what's available in your zipcode, etc. This is a non-issue for an analog cable subscriber (or a digital cable subscriber with a S3 TiVo and cablecard(s)), but it can be a major issue and a real pain in the butt for a satellite subscriber (and is currently why TiVo's HD offerings do not work with satellite).

(As an anecdotal example, I'll mention the story of how I was apparently the first person in my zipcode to use a TiVo with Dish Network, and in the beginning it took several days of emails back and forth with TiVo's tech people to get the scheduling and channel list correct. With the Dish DVR I had previously, I simply plugged it in and it worked.)


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## javabird (Oct 13, 2006)

I just returned from a week's stay at a home with Dish, and all I can say is I sure missed my Tivo! I had a terrible time trying to find my shows in the Dish guide in order to record them, and several times the shows I wanted just didn't get recorded at all. The search feature was dreadful - I really missed the ease of selecting a movie title and then letting the Tivo decide which show time to record. I was so happy when I returned home and find my missed shows waiting happily for me on my Tivo.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

davmoo said:


> Anyone who says a Dish Network DVR is better than TiVo is either sniffing glue or has never used a TiVo for more than two days. And for anyone who disagrees, the first response I am going to make is to ask you how you transfer a recorded program from your Dish DVR to your PC or how you burn it on a DVD without having to play the program back in real time in to another DVD recorder.


I have used both "for more than two days" and I say the Dish DVR is better.

You're touting a single feature as the be-all and end-all killer app that decides who wins. The fact of the matter is, Tivos can do things that the Dish DVR can't, and the Dish DVR can do things that the Tivo can't.

IMO, there are simply more of the latter.


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## Curtis (Dec 2, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> PS - I did read in another thread that the DISH DVR does not keep the live buffer going while you watch a recording. So the patented Time warp technology was certainly not infringed on the VIP 622


When you watch "live" TV you are watching a recording.


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## wtb (Dec 15, 2000)

Can someone point me to a recent CNET review of Dish and TiVo DVRs that make this claim? Doing a quick search, I only found 2 reviews, one in 2003 and the other in 2005. These are not recent since the TiVo HD DVRs came out after that I think (and all of the latest software releases).


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## fredct (Nov 15, 2004)

wtb said:


> Can someone point me to a recent CNET review of Dish and TiVo DVRs that make this claim? Doing a quick search, I only found 2 reviews, one in 2003 and the other in 2005. These are not recent since the TiVo HD DVRs came out after that I think (and all of the latest software releases).


Here's the one that calls it Editor's Choice, meaning it was better than the others reviewed (which includes the TiVoHD). They explain a bit by way of comparison, but mostly talk about it on its own:
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vid...2-hd/4505-6474_7-31778299.html?tag=prod.txt.3


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

At some point yesterday I saw the DISH commercial. I had seen where they would say "Better than TiVo". But the commercial yesterday just had a quick flash mentioning the editor's choice from CNET. It did not mention TiVo at all.


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## Curtis (Dec 2, 2003)

According to a jury, it *is* TiVo.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Curtis said:


> When you watch "live" TV you are watching a recording.


Umm, I said when you watch a pre-recorded show on the VIP622 I heard that the recording of the channel buffer is stopped and that when you switch to watching some channel "live" you start with no buffer on the VIP622.

Further the VIP622 is not one of the DVRs specificed in the patent infringement suit. It came out long after the DVRs that are named in the suit. My comment on the fact that they limit hard drive read/write by stopping the TV channel buffer when you are watching something that is playing back from the hard drive was pointing out that it woulkd seem they did not infringe on the TiVo time warp patent that allows for such hard drive multiple use features.


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## Curtis (Dec 2, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Umm, I said when you watch a pre-recorded show on the VIP622 I heard that the recording of the channel buffer is stopped and that when you switch to watching some channel "live" you start with no buffer on the VIP622.


When you watch live TV you are watching a pre-recorded show. The buffer is active.

It may be important to note that TiVo's patent makes no mention of dual tuners. It only takes one tuner to infringe on TiVo's patent. Buffering live TV is the essence of TiVo's time warp patent.


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## Rev. Noch (Dec 29, 2003)

hockeyinsd said:


> As a tivo user for over 4 years before I got the 622 (still have a S2 in the bedroom), my overall impression is that the 622 does its job, doesn't bug me too often, but still leaves me saying, "man, I wish tivo worked with Dish."


As a current TiVo user since 2003 and also a current user of a Dish VIP622, I just bought a S3 yesterday (not activated yet, I still need to make my virgin backup and then pay for the lifetime). I plan on likely dumping Dish as soon as my 18 months with the VIP are over. I really miss a lot of the functions such as the tivo 2 go stuff, transferring between DVR's, ETC, ETC, ETC. There is no way the VIP is better than a TiVo. Now that I have a 2 tuner HD TiVo I'm sticking with my first love in a DVR, even if I have to go to Crapcast.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Curtis said:


> When you watch live TV you are watching a pre-recorded show. The buffer is active.


You're arguing semantics. You know what he meant and so does everyone else.


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## Curtis (Dec 2, 2003)

classicX said:


> You're arguing semantics. You know what he meant and so does everyone else.


I don't think he understands that live TV is watching a pre-recorded program. To test that theory all you need to do is press rewind. See a picture? There ya go. It ain't rocket science. TiVo's patent covers that.

Some pre-recorded programs get retained longer than the default delete time of 30 minutes or so. What difference does retention time make? Thirty minutes ? Two weeks? So what? They are all pre-recordeed programs. What was his point anyway?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Curtis said:


> I don't think he understands that live TV is watching a pre-recorded program. To test that theory all you need to do is press rewind. See a picture? There ya go. It ain't rocket science. TiVo's patent covers that.
> 
> Some pre-recorded programs get retained longer than the default delete time of 30 minutes or so. What difference does retention time make? Thirty minutes ? Two weeks? So what?


I have used TiVo DVRs a long time. I obviously know how a Live TV buffer works. Your remarks are insulting


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## Curtis (Dec 2, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I have used TiVo DVRs a long time. I obviously know how a Live TV buffer works. Your remarks are insulting


Good comeback.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Curtis said:


> Good comeback.


Two single words confirming that you're being argumentative without reason. He shouldn't need a comeback if your post wasn't meant as an insult.

To clarify, he meant that the Dish DVR does not keep the live buffer active when the user switches to a separately recorded event which does not reside in the active buffer. This means that when you switch back to live TV, you cannot rewind past the point at which you returned.

Hopefully now we can get back on topic?


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## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

Not sure what the big fuss is, exactly. CNET reviewed both units, and gave an 8.7 to the Dish DVR and an 8.3 to the TiVo HD. TiVo got negative marks for having an additional cost for the service over the provider, something the DISH box doesn't suffer from. One might argue that the lack commercial uses circular logic to get to it's result (i.e. _if you have the Dish Network already, then the Dish DVR is the best, so go get Dish network so you can then be in the right position for that to be true!_)...but the facts stand as they are. CNET's editors felt that, for the criteria they used, that Dish's DVR was a great device. So it isn't false advertising for their commercials to say so (and I'd argue not even disingenuous).

Both the TiVo HD and Dish reviews make mention that they revisited them after updates were applied to the TiVo HD, btw.

I mean, if I were to argue anything, it's that I no longer have the same trust of CNET as a whole after the Jeff Gerstmann affair...but that's neither here nor there.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

WizarDru said:


> TiVo got negative marks for having an additional cost for the service over the provider, something the DISH box doesn't suffer from.


 That distinction bothered me though. Sure the TiVo is another company and another bill but still you do pay for the DISH DVR and for its use - it just happens to be a part of the big bill from DISH. They never really amended the review to the fact the TiVo HD costs 250$ either. Just mentioned the TiVo HD was out.

So bottom line for me - Dish can legitimately use it in its ads. The review is out there for anyone to read and on a site devoted to reviews. 
but...
I see the review as another reason why I stopped using Cnet reviews a long time ago. they slant them how they want them to turn out, not how they honestly rate a product. The reviewer might well have hoenstly liked the DISH DVR better, we will just never know for sure.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> you do pay for the DISH DVR and for its use - it just happens to be a part of the big bill from DISH.


I think the problems for Tivo all come down to cost. While my Dish bill is big, my Comcast bill was even bigger.

With DISH, the DVR fee (for a leased DVR) is $6. My last bill (with no premium channels, but with the HD package and two 'dual room' DVRs) was: $57 and change. Granted that is artificially low, and when my contract is up it will be closer to $75.

My last comcast bill (no premium channels, basic digital tier, two 'single room' DVRs) was ~$90.

When Comcast wouldn't allow me to get the triple play deal because I already had two services (internet and TV), I was angry. When they raised the rates for DVR rentals to $13 per box, that's when I decided to switch.

Anyway, back to the topic - features and useability aside, I think the major detractors from TivoHD / Series3 adoption are a) the "entry fee" and b) the monthly cost. If I went with cable and two Tivo HD units, even with the best contract Tivo offers (lowest monthly price) I'd still be paying more per month than with Dish. And I can watch recorded shows with Dish in four rooms (two rooms per DVR).

It's been said on this board time and time again that Tivo is in a rough spot, and software is the way to go if they want to stay relevant - and with offerings like the Dish DVR out there, they must innovate or eventually other companies will overtake them.


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## swkenney (Oct 27, 2004)

I have had a Series 1 TiVo since '98 or '99. In 2004 I moved into a room over a commercial business and got a DirecTiVo receiver. Directv would not consider me a residential customer, so I paid $700 for installtion and $350 for my receiver. It had 6.22 software, but it had no way of tranferring recordings to anything. I has to record real time on a DVD recorder.

Later on I got Dish there, and they agreed to consider me a residential customer. So installation was free. (I wish I had known).

The second output of my model 625 allowed me to record to a DVD while I was watching tha main tuner, so it didn't matter that I was tranferring in real time.

One bug I found was sometimes a recording (usally from taking the full 2 hour buffer) would have huge bogus numbers for the time remainig, and you had to try some try some tricks to get it to play. Sometimes you couldn't. A second unit had the same problem.

Now I am back to my single tuner series 1.


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## swkenney (Oct 27, 2004)

For the no live buffer while watching a stored recording issue:

You can rewind to a point in the live buffer and start recording with the "stop recording manually" option and that tuner will keep recording while you watch your stored show.

Just don't swap tuners before going to the stored show and the other not-in-record-mode buffer will keep on running as on a TiVo. Don't forget to stop the record-mode buffer before it fills up your hard drive.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

It is a little unfair to compare a Tivo HD with a Dish PVR. They are really different products. One is a standalone player, and one is a bundled player that you get cheaper because you pay for $40+ dollars of programming each month.

Would there be any doubt that if the current Tivo software were allowed to go forward on DirecTV that it would be the superior product?

-smak-


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## Lensman (Dec 22, 2001)

I do like how Tivo is implicitly now the standard against which all DVRs are measured. They need more advertising like this because it says: we know everyone thinks Tivo is the best, but we found one reviewer who liked the Dish DVR better than Tivo. It's like Hyundai saying they're better than Lexus.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

swkenney said:


> Directv would not consider me a residential customer, so I paid $700 for installtion nas $350 for my receiver.


Whoa. You actually agreed to this? Didn't you consider alternatives at the time?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

smak said:


> Would there be any doubt that if the current Tivo software were allowed to go forward on DirecTV that it would be the superior product?


Probably not (going by general concensus) but DirecTV is also a different animal - they make you pay exhorbitant fees for their receivers / DVRs up front, yet they are still "leased" and you still have to return them at the end of the contract.

When I was switching from Cable to Satellite, this was the main reason I went with Dish and not DirecTV - after I researched the DVR products a little, it was a no brainer.

Even with Tivo software on their DVRs, directTV would be a hard sell when you have to come out of pocket for $700 installed for reception on the same two HDDVRs and two SDDVRs (4 separate receivers) that Dish installed for me for free (two multi-room receivers).

All things considered, if DirecTV were to get Tivo software on their DVRs, and do away with the "startup" costs, they would garner a lot more new and loyal customers.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> *Dish bashing TiVo in a commercial?*
> 
> Sorry, but TiVo was not "bashed" in the Dish DVR commercial. An opinion that says that Dish's DVR is better isn't even a negative statement about TiVo, much less bashing Tivo.


An opinion you know to be false...there's a name for it. It's called a lie.

"And try our Dish HD-DVR, it's better than TiVo!"

I have had Dish equipment for over a decade and will swear on a stack of Bibles that Dish does NOTHING better than Tivo, including customer service. And I've had more than a few issues with Tivo customer service. Dish just happens to be *way worse* in my personal experience.

At least Tivo never turned me over to a collection agency when they actually owed ME money and then refuse to clear it up for about a year.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

restart88 said:


> An opinion you know to be false...there's a name for it. It's called a lie.
> 
> "And try our Dish HD-DVR, it's better than TiVo!"
> 
> ...


so you have an axe to grind. Understandable but still DIsh nas a Cnet editor choice. If TiVo had gotten that instead we all would be pointing to it as meaning TiVo is better.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Understandable but still DIsh nas a Cnet editor choice. If TiVo had gotten that instead we all would be pointing to it as meaning TiVo is better.


Excellent point. Tivo shouldn't whine because they came in a close second, and the first-place product compared itself to Tivo. These two DVRs are miles above the other competition.

Consumer Reports doesn't like Tivo at all, mainly because of the price. It's usually on the bottom of their list, with DVD recorders near the top. But they recommend renting the cable company's DVR in the near term, until the DTV transition is complete.

My parents have a DVD recorder, and occasionally ask about Tivo. But it just costs too much money up front AND each month to justify the amount of TV they watch. I can't even describe to them the SDV issues (SDV is already here). DISH is nice because you can get the subscription and a good DVR at a decent price.


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so you have an axe to grind. Understandable but still DIsh nas a Cnet editor choice. If TiVo had gotten that instead we all would be pointing to it as meaning TiVo is better.


One CAN have an axe to grind and still be right.


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## mikebridge (Sep 18, 2000)

> any combination of 30 hours of HD programming or 200 hours of standard-def. That's up from the older Dish DVR 942's total of 25 HD hours and the new TiVo HD's total of 20 hours, slightly more than the TiVo Series 3 (32 hours)


what kind of math is that? 30 is slightly more then 32?


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## swkenney (Oct 27, 2004)

classicX said:


> Whoa. You actually agreed to this? Didn't you consider alternatives at the time?


At the time I had only used a TiVo and a Directv (receiver only) and it seemed like they were the only one of its kind. I did not know that Dish was a good alternative, and that they would consider me residential. A residential customer would not have to pay installation fees and would get a free receiver.

Also I had a credit card I had paid to zero at the time.

The Directv DVR came from Circuit City and I owned it. I eventually sold it on eBay for $50 (through I-Sold-It). of which I kept $26.


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## redsting (Dec 21, 2007)

fredct said:


> Here's the one that calls it Editor's Choice, meaning it was better than the others reviewed (which includes the TiVoHD). They explain a bit by way of comparison, but mostly talk about it on its own:
> http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vid...2-hd/4505-6474_7-31778299.html?tag=prod.txt.3


From the CNet review on comparing the Tivo HD...

"Note that we're reviewing the hardware only"

He even mentions how it would be nice to have features like Tivo To Go, but he's careful not to bash the Dish recorder in saying that. For the most part they are not comparing any Tivo features to the Dish DVR's. In the guise of a hardware review I feel what he means. I wish they had added more memory and a faster processer into the Tivo S3 models. I don't think that we would be having as many issues with video and audio sync if they had beefed up the hardware a little on S3's


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## Remy (Jun 22, 2006)

Not gonna talk about whether CNet trumped up the Dish review or are Tivo haters here (my trust in CNet has been waning for years anyway).

I do want to say, however, that I miss my Tivo terribly. My roommate/landlord switched from Cox to Dish over a year ago; we got the dual dvr thing. Pretty cool that my remote uses RF. Uncool that the remote's design is horrid. After over a year, I still haven't gotten used to the location of play, stop, pause, etc! And because of the RF, I can't replace it.

The search on Dish is terrible. Might as well be non-existent. Can't search for actors, can't set it up to record any show with an actor/director/whatever... _sigh_. Can't even set it up to record a show that might one day air but isn't listed currently! How many episodes of Macgyver have I missed? How many Danny Kaye movies could I have watched?

Last night (Christmas night), my girlfriend and I realized we had forgotten to rent A Christmas Story. Well, knowing that TBS marathons it all day, I pulled it up on Dish. Oh, but it was 45 minutes into the last run. Too bad. My Tivo probably would have known I like that sort of movie and recorded it automatically.

Oh, but the worse was a couple weeks ago! I set the dvr to record the SciFi miniseries Tin Man. Three parts over three days. The Dish dvr, in all its glorious wisdom, decided that part one was a repeat of part two and canceled the recording without notification! Uhm...yeah.

Another thing, the Dish guide is consistently wrong about episode numbers. I can't speak for all shows, but I know on Stargates and Star Treks it's constantly wrong. Before I realized this I deleted a bunch of Enterprises thinking it had missed recording key episodes in the middle of a plotline. I finally went to startrek.com, compared the episode titles, and realized nothing had been missing.

Hardware reliability? Sure, better than Tivo, I'd say. Never had to reboot. So yeah, I guess that's ok. Doesn't matter much to me, though. A reboot only costs a few minutes. Having the show you want, that's more important.

I miss my Tivo. _sniff_


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## DragonHawk (Mar 2, 2003)

I saw the same ad, and Googled for the phrase, and found this thread, but had to do the detective work on my own.

Here is a screen shot of the commercial:

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11121&d=1196472968

It says, in big letters, "BETTER THAN TiVo", with smaller print of "CNET (cnet.com review on 10/3/07". The quotation marks are mine, not part of the ad. So they're not claiming to quote CNet verbatim.

The only actual DVR review posted new on 10/03/2007 is this one:

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vid...h-network-vip722-hd/4505-6474_7-32638974.html

The above is of the ViP722, and is basically just a blurb saying the 722 is just like the ViP622, but with more storage. So on to the VIP622 review:

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vid...h-network-vip622-hd/4505-6474_7-31778299.html

The above review of the ViP622 was originally published 4/10/06, but was updated 10/03/07. Specific comparisons to TiVo in the review are:

Comparing the ViP622 to the TiVo HD and the DirectTV HR20, they gave their "Editor's Choice" to the ViP622.

They rave about 30-second-skip, saying the ViP622 has it out of the box, unlike "TiVos that aren't hacked". (They link to the SPS30S trick on the word "hacked". That's a bit different than how we (in this forum) usually use "hack", but they do appear to be consistent in their use of it.)

They state the ViP622 can store up to 30 hours of high def, vs 20 for the TiVo HD. They also call that "slightly more than the TiVo Series 3 (32 hours)"; I'm not sure how they arrived at the conclusion that "30 > 32".

They remark on the lack of a "TiVo-To-Go-like" feature.

They say the ViP622's UI responds quicker than the DirectTiVo HD. No mention of the stand-alone TiVo HD's response time.

They remark that, in their original units, the ViP has significant stability issues (crash/hang). The 10/03/07 update states that updated units have apparently solved this problem, and that changed their opinion of it.

All in all, they do give the ViP622 good marks, but I'm not sure if "better than TiVo" is a fair interpretation. I'd certainly agree that CNet is saying the ViP622 is as good as the TiVo is.

Zealots, please note, the above is my analysis of what CNet is saying, not my own opinion of the ViP622/722. I've never even seen the things, and I'm quite happy with my Series 3.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

What I really find hilarious is how so many people tout CNET's word as gospel. For God's sake, they aren't the be all and end all, nor the holy grail of review sources. They've got bias and agendas like everyone else. If you think they're promoting anything without commercial influence whatsoever, you're greatly mistaken. People need to take everything with a much larger grain of salt.


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## stuckma (Jan 28, 2008)

Wow, now I'm even more confused. I'm debating on whether to discontinue using my Series 2 TiVo for a Dish Network HD DVR. I would like to get the HD programming but that comes with the cost of giving up my TiVo. Me and my wife love the TiVo with the Lifetime subscription, and it just kills me to give that up. Can someone who has used the Dish DVR tell me if the menus and programming features are similiar? We have the Season Pass Managers and all that, does Dish have that as well? And I am confused as to what a couple of posters were arguing about earlier, about live TV or recorded TV. Can you pause and rewind with the Dish DVR? Thanks for any help.


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## swkenney (Oct 27, 2004)

I had a Dish 625 receiver (standard def). The only thing that I missed from TiVo was the fact that after leaving a recording in the equivalent of "now playing" and going to live TV, going back to the recordings put you at the start of the list, instead of at the last recording you viewed.

It does not have suggestions or a wish list (except as noted below), but I did not mind that.
I did like the fact that you could rename your recordings. At one time I had dozens of "Know the Cause" recordings, which all had the same description. By renaming them, I knew what I had.

Another feature I liked was I could set a Timer (season pass) for Dr Phil (for example) at 3:00 PM daily, and it would skip the 8:00 PM ones. (Not a manual recording.)

You could set a dish pass which is like a wish list by title, but you could also set one channel, instead of it being any channel. So, if I set it for "Big Brother" and channel 5, it would pick up every season of Big Brother, without getting some other shows on other channels, which TiVo picked up also.

And padding works better. If you use 1 minute before and up to 3 minutes after, It will ignore the padding in case of a conflict, and get both shows.
This is one area where TiVo is annoying. ("If I cant get that extra one minute you wanted, I will just go pout for the rest of the show and wont record any of it" - I don't like to use the word stupid, but this is really stupid).

Also, while in the menus and guides, you can still see and hear your current show (live or recorded) in the upper right hand corner in a small box,

You have a two hour buffer. If you rewind to any spot in that buffer and start a recording, it will start from that point. You can even choose to record from that point on until manually stopped - like a vcr.

I would like to go to Dish to avoid the trouble with needing an external tuner, but I get cable for free with the apartment I am in. If Comcast goes to digital on channels under 100, I will have to use a Comcast tuner, which my series 1 changes very slowly.


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

restart88 said:


> An opinion you know to be false...there's a name for it. It's called a lie.
> 
> "And try our Dish HD-DVR, it's better than TiVo!"
> 
> ...


Dish does almost everything better than Tivo, except for the wishlists

dish gives options in the guide for Rows, columns and fonts and can even fit two and a half to three hours of programming on the screen

Dish's equivalent to onepasses not only asks if you want new or new and reruns, it asks if you want to record weekly, or Monday through Friday or a daily.

When you make a recording of any kind dish asks if you want to put it into a user-generated folder and allows you to create a new folder if necessary.

so you can organize your programs however you like ... for instance folders can be for documentaries, Retro TV shows, favorite actors, Junior's programs, Etc

Dish killed their dish pass because they had to pay a royalty to TiVo but when they had it they had a choice that TiVo doesn't have:
Do you want to look at only a specific Channel? And when you selected a folder for the dish pass it was a folder that would be shared by their equivalent of one passes single program and manual recordings as I mentioned above.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

This one was a ten year necro! Go for the gold!


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

stile99 said:


> This one was a ten year necro! Go for the gold!


10 years and almost 5 months, gotta be a record.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

stile99 said:


> This one was a ten year necro! Go for the gold!


Stop them now....stop the necros...NO FORUM IS SAFE . Oh shoot they're headed to AV.... is that a mushroom cloud?


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Since this has been resurrected, contrary to what many people say about there being no better DVR than TiVo, Dish Hopper 3 is in many respects, superior. Yes, there is a DVR as least as good, if not better than a TiVo: Dish Hopper 3.

However, Dish is having some of the same headaches with the upgraded Carbon UI that is a "carbon" copy of the many complaints about TiVo's Hydra. And DirecTV is suffering the same blues with its updated UI. Now, it seems, the top tier DVR's are all having the same problem: upgraded UI has frustrated a fair number number of users.


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

The advantage of the older Dish screens are that you can do everything with the arrow panel and the ok button ... you move to the right and down to delete button and press ok and then confirm it .. all with one finger.
With the new systems, you need to find the right button on your remote and take your eyes off the screen.
I find that even the updated GPS navigation in my Toyota is far more complex than it used to be. I feel that the younger generation who is programming these things doesn't have the training to do as well as the previous generation of programmers.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Ad executives everywhere should pay attention to this thread. Any commercial that's still being talked about 11 years later must be one hell of a powerful ad.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

mdavej said:


> Ad executives everywhere should pay attention to this thread. Any commercial that's still being talked about 11 years later must be one hell of a powerful ad.


Plop plop, fizz fizz, oh what a relief it is!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm a bit biased to my locale... but DirecTV is the only DVR that's any good for pay TV, since they're the only ones that have the content, and have good video quality. Even though their DVR itself is solidly mediocre. Comcast's VQ is trash, and DISH doesn't have our RSNs.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

Bigg said:


> DirecTV is the only DVR that's any good for pay TV [...] Even though their DVR itself is solidly mediocre.


O...K?


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## fredi (Apr 1, 2017)

For my RV I dumped my ViP722k for a Dish Wally to get rid of the $15 month DVR fee. I have the Pay-As-You-Go Flex package that is only $35 a month, so the fee seemed excessive. To Dish the Wally is a "Non-DVR" receiver so no DVR fee, however you can add a 2-gig external hard-drive giving it very capable DVR features with no DVR fee. There is a one-time $40 fee to activate the DVR function, but I didn’t have to pay it, probably because I’ve had 722k for a long time. My TiVoHD has a better OTA tuner than the Wally Dual OTA adapter but the Wally downloads the Rovi guide data from satellite, great for when internet isn’t available.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

stile99 said:


> O...K?


It's because of the service that they connect to. A great DVR (TiVo) is no good if it's connected to a heaping pile of garbage (Comcast).


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