# Ceton Beta testers



## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

Ceton put out a call for Beta Testers,
Single file lines ladies and gentlemen, no pushing, no shoving

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/30/ceton-windows-media-center-companion-app-echo-extender-beta/

http://beta.cetoncorp.com


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I signed up for both beta programs earlier this week. The announcement was posted over at The Missing Remote on April 28th, so you're a little behind.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

I signed up. The absence of tolerable extender solutions has been the main thing holding me back from going back to the HTPC DVR world.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

SageTV had a great extender. Unfortunately, they got bought out and SageTV and their wonderful extenders are no longer available. I hate it when a successful product gets bought up by a larger company and then vanishes from the marketplace.


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## RockinRay (Aug 25, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> SageTV had a great extender. Unfortunately, they got bought out and SageTV and their wonderful extenders are no longer available. I hate it when a successful product gets bought up by a larger company and then vanishes from the marketplace.


+1 - we used SageTV for about 2 years. It was a great product and the HD300's rocked.

Too bad Google has not done anything with them since they bought them out.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

fyodor said:


> I signed up. The absence of tolerable extender solutions has been the main thing holding me back from going back to the HTPC DVR world.


I actually used SageTV for several years back in the day. It had the best recording engine of anything I've tried and some neat transcoding plugins. But I didn't like the interface much and there weren't any non-clunky ways to view premium content.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

I wonder how much it will cost.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Beta testing is generally free, AFAIK. If you're testing software it probably has an expiration date. If you're testing hardware you probably have to return it after the trial period is over. They might want you to post a deposit or provide a credit card number as collateral, but as I've never been involved in one before I'm only guessing. You're pretty much forbidden to talk about it if you're accepted into the test so I've heard next to nothing about how it works.


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## paulnelson20 (Oct 18, 2007)

mr.unnatural said:


> Beta testing is generally free, AFAIK. If you're testing software it probably has an expiration date. If you're testing hardware you probably have to return it after the trial period is over. They might want you to post a deposit or provide a credit card number as collateral, but as I've never been involved in one before I'm only guessing. You're pretty much forbidden to talk about it if you're accepted into the test so I've heard next to nothing about how it works.


From what's been posted by the guys at Ceton, you pay for the extender up front, when the beta test is over, you keep the unit at no additional charge. What will be interesting is if there will be a difference in price of the beta test unit (discount for being a beta tester/having to deal with any bugs) and the finished retail unit.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

They should offer it to you at a discount or allow you to upgrade to a retail version once it's been debugged. If it only requires a software or firmware update then it's not a bad deal.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I use my Xbox360 as a Media Center extender. The UI's the same as it's really just doing an RDP session into the HTPC.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The main problem with any current Media Center extender is that they seriously lack codec support for most of the popular formats like MKVs or Blu-Rays. Hopefully the Ceton extender will address this issue and provide wider support. Actual features haven't been released yet so it's anyone's guess what they'll actually be able to handle.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> SageTV had a great extender. Unfortunately, they got bought out and SageTV and their wonderful extenders are no longer available. I hate it when a successful product gets bought up by a larger company and then vanishes from the marketplace.


You mean successful product as in a product you like or one that works well? I have seen nothing that makes me believe it was a successful product from the company's standpoint, one that sells well and is highly profitable, if it was, it would still be available for purchase.

This Ceton box is exciting, I am not interested other than as an observing bystander and won't be buying one. If there is a similar product based on TiVo in the future, that would be even more exciting.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

mr.unnatural said:


> I signed up for both beta programs earlier this week. The announcement was posted over at The Missing Remote on April 28th, so you're a little behind.


I looked here and didnt see anything about it so I posted the announcemnet when i saw it on Endgaqdget.
Although I do not think my TiVo's will be going any where any time soon I always have my eye out for a new toy and the chance to play with one for free, or maybe even get paid to do it, then keep it. Just sharing but its good you already knew about it. I did not!


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

You dont get paid for the beta. you have to pay for the ceton echo. I have to use a computer to watch shows in my bedroom from my ceton cable card pc.
The echo will save me some power.

I still dont know what im going to do with my tivos. but it looks like i dont need them anymore.



Joe01880 said:


> I looked here and didnt see anything about it so I posted the announcemnet when i saw it on Endgaqdget.
> Although I do not think my TiVo's will be going any where any time soon I always have my eye out for a new toy and the chance to play with one for free, or maybe even get paid to do it, then keep it. Just sharing but its good you already knew about it. I did not!


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Thought about signing up but realized I don't care. I will wait and see what they end up offering software wise when it comes out. I am more interested in playing with the Q.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> You mean successful product as in a product you like or one that works well? I have seen nothing that makes me believe it was a successful product from the company's standpoint, one that sells well and is highly profitable, if it was, it would still be available for purchase.
> 
> This Ceton box is exciting, I am not interested other than as an observing bystander and won't be buying one. If there is a similar product based on TiVo in the future, that would be even more exciting.


I meant successful in that it was a product that appeared to work better than any other offerings currently available. I don't know how successful it was financially. SageTV was always a niche product with a fanbase that was smaller than the number of WMC users. I never actually used the Sage 300 extender but I was in the process of evaluating SageTV with the patched version that worked with the Ceton InfiniTV4 tuner when Google took them over.

I was interested in getting the Sage extenders but my timing was off. I never did finish evaluating SageTV because there seemed to be little point after the takeover. I couldn't buy a license for it if I wanted to and the Sage store closed up shop, which meant no extenders unless I went through ebay or other similar source.


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## paulnelson20 (Oct 18, 2007)

innocentfreak said:


> Thought about signing up but realized I don't care. I will wait and see what they end up offering software wise when it comes out. I am more interested in playing with the Q.


I would have thought about it too, however I have ditched my WMC/Ceton set-up and have gone back to Tivo for my tv usage (using my HTPC for watching blu-ray rips and downloads). The whole guide data issues lately and the spontaneous crashes of the InfiniTV 4 are the main culprits. I don't want to have to check every other day to make sure my guide data is updating, especially if there is something a week down the line and there is no data in WMC, sometimes I don't remember to check again after the guide finally updates. When it gets down to 4-6 days worth of data (several times in the span of a month or two, it becomes a nuisance.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

my wmc guide runs out on 5-11-12 i hope they fix this problem soon. i still have my tivo running



paulnelson20 said:


> I would have thought about it too, however I have ditched my WMC/Ceton set-up and have gone back to Tivo for my tv usage (using my HTPC for watching blu-ray rips and downloads). The whole guide data issues lately and the spontaneous crashes of the InfiniTV 4 are the main culprits. I don't want to have to check every other day to make sure my guide data is updating, especially if there is something a week down the line and there is no data in WMC, sometimes I don't remember to check again after the guide finally updates. When it gets down to 4-6 days worth of data (several times in the span of a month or two, it becomes a nuisance.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

tootal2 said:


> You dont get paid for the beta. you have to pay for the ceton echo. I have to use a computer to watch shows in my bedroom from my ceton cable card pc.
> The echo will save me some power.
> 
> I still dont know what im going to do with my tivos. but it looks like i dont need them anymore.


What a great deal! Ceton convinces you to purchase a full price pre-production unit and expects you to report all of the software bugs and usability issues!

I suppose you will then have to pay full price again for an actual working model once YOU find all the bugs in it!!!

Yeah, sounds like a great idea to me.... I am sure they will creativly spin this to find enough people to pay them for the privilege to do their work for them! And what happens if this thing never makes it into production? Do you get reimbursed? Will the guide continue to be supported?

Have fun with that...


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

bradleys said:


> What a great deal! Ceton convinces you to purchase a full price pre-production unit and expects you to report all of the software bugs and usability issues!
> 
> I suppose you will then have to pay full price again for an actual working model once YOU find all the bugs in it!!!
> 
> ...


You are buying the hardware. You don't pay after the beta is over. You just keep the hardware. Consider it a hardware deposit so someone doesn't get shipped a free Echo and then try to sell it on eBay or do zero testing.

You have to apply specifically to the Echo beta and also get accepted.

I am sure if TiVo offered people the same deal with their ip box or transcoder, you would have people who want to test.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I signed up for the Echo extender beta trial. I recently purchased a SiliconDust HD HomeRun Prime from Woot. I have not yet set it up though. I wonder if Ceton would pick a beta candidate that did not own one of their Ceton InfiniTV4 products. Guess we'll see.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

seems like a good deal to me. I would buy 1 right now if i could



bradleys said:


> What a great deal! Ceton convinces you to purchase a full price pre-production unit and expects you to report all of the software bugs and usability issues!
> 
> I suppose you will then have to pay full price again for an actual working model once YOU find all the bugs in it!!!
> 
> ...


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

tootal2 said:


> my wmc guide runs out on 5-11-12 i hope they fix this problem soon. i still have my tivo running


Guide data is an issue with Zap2it and has nothing to do with Ceton or your PC. Sometimes it doesn't get updated as often as I'd like, but it's never gotten to the point where it ran out altogether.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bradleys said:


> What a great deal! Ceton convinces you to purchase a full price pre-production unit and expects you to report all of the software bugs and usability issues!
> 
> I suppose you will then have to pay full price again for an actual working model once YOU find all the bugs in it!!!
> 
> ...


Nothing unusual about having the beta testers pay for the hardware. I've been in several betas over the years where I paid hundreds of dollars for the beta hardware to test it. And when the beta was over we got to keep the beta hardware. Which ended up costing less than the price of the final retail product.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Nothing unusual about having the beta testers pay for the hardware. I've been in several betas over the years where I paid hundreds of dollars for the beta hardware to test it. And when the beta was over we got to keep the beta hardware. Which ended up costing less than the price of the final retail product.


I would have no problem signing a contract or even paying a refundable deposit for the hardware... That makes sense.

But purchasing and subscribing the unit - just to do their work for them... Uh, no.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

bradleys said:


> I would have no problem signing a contract or even paying a refundable deposit for the hardware... That makes sense.
> 
> But purchasing and subscribing the unit - just to do their work for them... Uh, no.


This is pretty much common practice employed throughout the computer industry. People get an opportunity to try hardware and software before the rest of the population at a reduced cost and all they have to do is let the manufacturer know what they like or dislike about the product or report any glitches that occurred. It saves a lot of headaches for everyone in the long run. It's virtually impossible for any developer to test every single combination of hardware and software out there so having beta testers is paramount to providing a stable product. If you think Winows is buggy, just think how bad it would be if there was no beta testing program.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

mr.unnatural said:


> This is pretty much common practice employed throughout the computer industry. People get an opportunity to try hardware and software before the rest of the population at a reduced cost and all they have to do is let the manufacturer know what they like or dislike about the product or report any glitches that occurred. It saves a lot of headaches for everyone in the long run. It's virtually impossible for any developer to test every single combination of hardware and software out there so having beta testers is paramount to providing a stable product. If you think Winows is buggy, just think how bad it would be if there was no beta testing program.


I am a developer and have been managing development teams for over a decade...

The problem with a beta product is, that by definition it is going to change.

In this case, if the problems are all software releated, you may be OK long term. But if any of the issues require a hardware change you own the product and the manufacturer has no obligation to make you whole.

This is risk free for the manufacturer and they are counting on your enthusiasm for a new product to keep it that way.

I have no problem sharing risk - I am just not going to take all the risk and leave them scott free when the whole product comes tumbling down.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I hear what you're saying and agree with it in principal, especially with respect to any potential hardware changes. In the case of the Echo extender, any changes are likely going to be software related. I'd feel perfectly comfortable testing such a product if it gave me the ability to be an early adopter at a fraction of the retail cost with the potential of upgrading it to the full released version with a software update. I see any possible risk as being minimal at best.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

bradleys said:


> I am a developer and have been managing development teams for over a decade...
> 
> The problem with a beta product is, that by definition it is going to change.
> 
> ...


The product is a final hardware product. You are only testing the software.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

innocentfreak said:


> The product is a final hardware product. You are only testing the software.


Nothing is ever final until it is final.

A good example of this is the OLED S3 platform that when released the hardware was considered production ready. It was also well documented that you could move to a single M-card when the cable companies finally deployed them. Well, as we know, when the m-cards finaly arrived they would not work on the hardware. Ooops! You had to upgrade to an HD model if you wanted to avoid the second cable card charge from your cable company.

Will this hardware you are purchasing be rock solid with no hickups or issues? Maybe, maybe not. That is the risk you are taking....

If there is a hardware issue identified during beta - Ceton will make adjustments before going into full production mode and the future customers will thank you for finding the glitches for them. You on the otherhand are stuck with whatever work arounds can be implemented. Not unlike having to lease 2 s-cards as opposed to a single m-card for the remainder of the units life.

If you guys are really getting a highly discounted rate - then maybe it is worth the risk. I am not sure what the deal looks like.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

bradleys said:


> If you guys are really getting a highly discounted rate - then maybe it is worth the risk. I am not sure what the deal looks like.


Nobody knows what the deal looks like yet. This entire discussion is pure speculation.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

From the email update they just sent out, they had 1000 beta slots for the Echo and had more applicants than slots. 

The Echo has a MSRP of $179.99.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

Im not a echo beta tester. a lot of people are complaining about the 179$ price. I would like to buy one for my bedroom



innocentfreak said:


> From the email update they just sent out, they had 1000 beta slots for the Echo and had more applicants than slots.
> 
> The Echo has a MSRP of $179.99.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

That sounds like a decent price for a low power extender.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

tootal2 said:


> Im not a echo beta tester. a lot of people are complaining about the 179$ price. I would like to buy one for my bedroom


I have only seen two people complain and it sounds like they thought it was going to be $99 which Ceton never said. They just said they were aiming for less than a 360.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

I was not picked for the beta 

I was expecting a $199 price so $179 seems good. The price will surely come down especially on sale.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

I was picked. I'm hoping to get picked for the Q also which would help a lot with my set up.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I got picked and confirmed my commitment to join the Beta testing program in September. Some people have been griping about the $179 cost to join the program, but we get to play with the box for months before the rest of the public and the standard warranty period doesn't begin until it's available commercially. We'll also be getting the final software update when it goes public.

I've got an X-Box 360 that was purchased for use as an extender but found it to be too noisy, too hot, and had inadequate codec support for many popular video formats. The Ceton Echo will hopefully provide better support for additional formats and will definitely run cooler and quieter based on earlier reports. We never used the X-Box for gaming so that's a non-issue.


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## GatorBlues (Sep 8, 2007)

Is there any more informaiton available regarding when the Q and Echo will be available at retail, or regarding the price of the Q?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

GatorBlues said:


> Is there any more informaiton available regarding when the Q and Echo will be available at retail, or regarding the price of the Q?


Echo is due by the holidays, and there will be news on the Q in September.

http://cetoncorp.com/blog/its-been-a-busy-6-months/


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

In the world of technology, this "due" date means we'll probably see it most likely sometime in the spring or summer of 2013. Remember, I said it here first


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

buscuitboy said:


> In the world of technology, this "due" date means we'll probably see it most likely sometime in the spring or summer of 2013. Remember, I said it here first


The beta test is finished hardware. They are just testing the software.


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## cram501 (Oct 23, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Nothing is ever final until it is final.
> A good example of this is the OLED S3 platform that when released the hardware was considered production ready. It was also well documented that you could move to a single M-card when the cable companies finally deployed them. Well, as we know, when the m-cards finaly arrived they would not work on the hardware. Ooops! You had to upgrade to an HD model if you wanted to avoid the second cable card charge from your cable company.


I have one of the original S3's. I am pretty sure it was Tivo that didn't want to make software changes for an end of life product and not the hardware. Although with the early slots maybe it was a pita.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I think echo also has a browser, which makes it interesting if it let's you watch video on your TV like google TV.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Picked for the Echo and looking forward to getting to beta test it when it's available :up:


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

cram501 said:


> I have one of the original S3's. I am pretty sure it was Tivo that didn't want to make software changes for an end of life product and not the hardware. Although with the early slots maybe it was a pita.


I can't provide a citation at the moment, but I think they've basically confirmed here that it was hardware, not just software.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

mattack said:


> I can't provide a citation at the moment, but I think they've basically confirmed here that it was hardware, not just software.


TiVoPony's comments on the subject.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6149876&highlight=risk#post6149876
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7854359&highlight=mcard#post7854359



> Likewise, features such as QAM remapping and M-Card S3 support do not target a significant portion of our subscribers, both are in fact very small numbers of subscribers. That doesn't mean that they automatically get set aside, or that TiVo is ignoring or doesn't care about those customers. But it is a consideration when trading off those features against others (M-Card for S3 is technically possible, but also technically very complex. We've learned that there is a lot of risk inherent in that development).


The risk and complexity were because the S3 hardware was set before there were any certified Mcards to test with. As I recall, things did not work exactly as expected. It really doesn't matter whether you consider that a hardware or software issue. Ultimately it was cost vs benefit that caused TiVo to nix M-card development for the original S3.


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