# AT&T TV



## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

Out of curiousity, I called AT&T to inquire about being a new customer for AT&T TV.

Here is their website:
AT&T TV - Live Streaming TV + Apps, Voice Controlled

It's apparently available throughout the country, and it's IPTV, so one could say it competes against YouTube TV, and Hulu Live TV as a cable replacement.

However, a big difference is they can provide their own equipment but a user can use their own like a Roku device, and there is a 2 year agreement, and $15/mo penalty for every month counted when one terminates before the end of the agreement. One could be charged about $345-360 in a termination fee if cancelled within or just after the first month.

When I spoke with the customer agent, he mentioned that AT&T Now is being phased out. For the AT&T TV pricing, in year two, a customer could call in and ask for a lower price than the expected year 2 or normal rate. I assume there could be a pressure for the customer to renew the contract another year. The agent seemed hopeful to make a sale, but I diverted the conversation and asked about AT&T Watch TV and started asking about DirecTV as well, and later said I have to think about it. He mentioned he wasn't too familiar with AT&T Watch TV, and mentioned DirecTV is more expensive but has more channels.

I suppose what piqued my interest is viewing the channel listing. Not that I would need these channels but it's nice to have extra and it does carry WGN America, MGM HD Movies and a few other channels not carried by the other streaming carriers. However, some channels like SONY Movie Channel are on DirecTV but not on AT&T TV, but are on Fubo.

It seems odd in a way that AT&T is maintaining three different IPTV platforms with different billing systems, and the contract agreement even if a customer uses their own devices.

Anyone have AT&T TV? Any positives with the service?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I’ve got it. The service is good, HDPQ is very good and some have said it is as good as DirecTV’s. The little box that comes with the service is good for using their service but not so good with apps. But it is a bit sluggish.

The UI for the service is probably the best I’ve seen from and IPTV provider. It is easy to navigate, is well presented and pretty responsive. One thing I found out is that their box is more responsive if I use my Harmony Remote instead of theirs. No clue why, and I don’t actually care, but it makes it more enjoyable.

I signed up for the Entertainment level as national sports channels and locals will cover all of the sports viewing I might want to do. Included with the offer was one year of HBO/HBO Max, 3 months of the other Premium movie channels and a $100 rebate.

My plan is that if I can’t negotiate what I consider a fair price at the end of the promo year, I will cancel and pay the ETF. Math tells me that if I keep it for a year and cancel then the true cost for the year I have it is $57/month which is actually a bargain IMO.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

it's been talked about before on here. I don't have it.

The pricing made it DOA to me. It had kind of an "everything you hate about cable" vibe to it.

YTTV is the service to get if the channel lineup suits you. Of course test all the services for yourself for free.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I checked out AT&T TV, YouTube TV, Hulu Live, and Sling TV. For now, I went with Sling Blue + Orange + DVR.
2nd choice was YouTube TV. AT&T was just too expensive. Even though I went with Sling Blue + Orange, it still had way
too many channels I'll never watch. I would prefer a lower a la carte price, but we all know the providers are fighting that
to the grave.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

I've tried out Sling, Philo and You Tube TV. With Sling, I think the main drawback is the limited 50 hour cloud DVR. If I set up a repeat recording of 'King of Queens', because of the marathon scheduling on Lifetime/TV Land/CMT, it will completely fill up the 50 hour alloted DVR in two days. It also will record from all channels that air a given show, which is good or bad, but should give the user the choice to record only from the selected channel.

I think AT&T Now, Fubo, YouTube and Hulu Live cover the sports and news viewer well.

As far as a lower price, Philo is decent at $20, but I actually wish it'd offer a second tier like an Extra pack, and include MGM HD, SONY Movie Channel, HD Net Movies, INSP, getTV, LightTV, WGN America, TV One and a number of smaller channels found on cable but likely not strung to expensive agreements. Maybe it will add CBS as it carries Viacom and re-organize their packs slightly, while still avoiding Disney, NBC, Fox and Warner to keep costs lower.

Vidgo looks price competitive. I was hoping Vidgo would offer a cloud DVR this year, and maybe it'd be competitive, but Vidgo didn't get a positive recommendation even just as a non DVR channel provider:


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I had AT&T TV NOW since the beginning, 3-4 years ago, then beta tested two hardware versions of the AT&T TV box for a year. It was a great deal in years one and two. I finally dropped them when my bill doubled. If I had switch to something like AT&T TV Choice, my bill would have doubled again.

So the cable TV level price is a total deal breaker for me. If you can stomach that, then yes, there are a few positives:
- Box gives a user experience identical to a cable box: channel numbers, channel up/down/last, one touch record, instant on, voice control, etc.
- Good channel lineup
- 5.1 sound (YTTV, for example, has only stereo)
- HBO is included in some plans

Negatives:
- Price
- Price
- Price
- 2nd and 3rd boxes are $10/month each (of course you can use any other streaming device if you prefer)
- Contract
- ETF
- No PBS (YTTV is the only streaming provider with PBS)
- Recording system is extremely unreliable and buggy (many missed/wrong recording). You need a Phd in computer science to figure out how to cancel a series recording
- Service and hardware is unreliable and buggy. It's filled with bugs that have been there 4 years now, everything from forced HDR to the terrible recording system, to constant buffering and drop-outs.

The thing that strikes me as odd is that even though the deployment and equipment costs for AT&T TV are far lower than U-Verse or DirecTV, they're charging the exact same price. So rather than pass a penny of those savings on to the customer, they're simply gouging. And they're transitioning many customers in a very dishonest way, telling them U-Verse is shutting down. We'll it's not shut down yet, and people are switching to an inferior service that costs just as much a U-Verse and DirecTV mainly because they're being misled. I see tons of post in the AT&T forums from unsuspecting customers who immediately regret switching (they lose PBS and religious channels, get limited to 3 screens, recordings expire in 90 days, etc.).

And it's also very dishonest for them to tell you not to worry about the 100% price increase in year two because you MIGHT be able to beg them for a lower rate. If they're not willing to put that in writing, it's just a worthless lie. Same old misleading, bait-and-switch tactics cable TV has used since the beginning. Oh, and did they mention the regional sports fee? I didn't think so.

The 3 different IPTV systems are all transitional. "AT&T TV" will ultimately be the only one remaining in the end. Maybe they'll keep Watch as a perk for their phone customers. But NOW and U-verse will definitely go away, and DirecTV will likely be sold.

In the mean time, when they lose a million customers quarter after quarter, it brings a smile to my face. They earned every single loss due to their greed and ineptitude. They could own the OTT streaming market if they would simply produce a functional app and offer reasonable prices. But they are too shortsighted for that to ever happen.


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## Andyroo (Feb 17, 2017)

Is AT&T TV compatible with Tivo? Like can I continue to use my Bolt if I switch my cable provider to AT&T TV? The sales rep said yes, but I can’t find definitive confirmation online.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Andyroo said:


> Is AT&T TV compatible with Tivo? Like can I continue to use my Bolt if I switch my cable provider to AT&T TV? The sales rep said yes, but I can't find definitive confirmation online.


I can tell you definitively with 100% certainty that Tivo Bolt is not compatible with AT&T TV at all. AT&T TV is streamed via an app similar to how Netflix and Prime video work. You can't load this app onto a Bolt. Even if you could, the Bolt couldn't record from it. AT&T will give you free Android TV box to run the app, or you can run it on a Roku, Fire stick or Apple TV. All your recordings are stored in the cloud. You can't record or watch anything from AT&T on your Tivo. Since AT&T TV comes with its own hardware and cloud DVR, your Bolt would be superfluous.

You do realize that AT&T TV is just as expensive as traditional cable, has a 2 year contract with a $360 early termination fee, most plans add an $8.50 regional sports fee, and your price doubles in the second year. All recordings get deleted after 90 days. The DVR is very bare bones and buggy. The AT&T box has the dreaded forced HDR bug, so the colors might look terrible on your 4k TV. As a former subscriber to AT&T TV, I'd be very wary.

Competing services like Youtube TV are far better and cheaper, assuming they have the channel lineup you need. Also consider that when AT&T TV says they have all your locals, they really don't. The don't carry PBS at all (YTTV is the only streaming service that does). And unlike the DirecTV service it's supposed to replace, you can't get Sunday Ticket or any pay-per-view at all.


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## Andyroo (Feb 17, 2017)

That’s what I figured, thanks for confirming! My partner spoke to the sales guy offering a “special deal” door to door. It would have saved us money over Spectrum cable/internet even with the two year commitment and potential rate increase in year 2. But for me it’s not really worth it if it negates having my Bolt and Minis.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> I've got it. The service is good, HDPQ is very good and some have said it is as good as DirecTV's. The little box that comes with the service is good for using their service but not so good with apps. But it is a bit sluggish.


Here's a tip I saw on another forum (DSL Reports, posted by user jennings2510) to make the AT&T TV box run a bit faster, particularly when it comes to launching and using apps:

Go to Settings, then System, then General.
Make sure System Summary is highlighted.
Keep pressing OK on the remote until you get a message on the screen saying you're in Developer Mode.
Scroll down and you should see the developer options.

There are a few things you should change here:
Set the limit on number of Background Processes to 1. (Note, however, that if the box reboots, this setting may change back to the default.)
You should also see three different Animation options. Leave the one called Animator Duration Scale enabled but turn the other two off. (Animator Duration Scale allows the program guide to display thumbnails and short descriptions for shows. If you don't care about that, you can turn it off too.) The default setting for Animator Duration Scale is 1x but turning it down to 0.5x should additionally boost performance.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks.

Tried that and it seems a smidgen quicker.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Here's a tip I saw on another forum...


NashGuy, does this developer mode have an option to allow apps from unknown sources?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

mdavej said:


> NashGuy, does this developer mode have an option to allow apps from unknown sources?


I looked it over while making the changes and unfortunately didn't see a way to do that.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> NashGuy, does this developer mode have an option to allow apps from unknown sources?





lparsons21 said:


> I looked it over while making the changes and unfortunately didn't see a way to do that.


Yeah, AT&T has unfortunately removed that capability from the box. (I guess Google allows that when an MVPD licenses Android TV Operator Tier.) So no sideloading apps they don't want you to have! Which is too bad. Hopefully they land apps for Prime Video and Hulu soon, as those are major omissions. Prime Video has never been available on every Android TV device; I think each device provider must make ask for it from Amazon (and perhaps agree to certain terms).

As for Hulu, I can see that being a matter of AT&T TV not wanting an app with a competing live cable TV service to be on their box. Maybe Hulu will create an Android TV version of the app that only has the core service without add-ons for live TV and premiums. (It appears that's what they've done with the new Hulu app for X1.)


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Tried that and it seems a smidgen quicker.


Have you tried using Netflix or other apps now? How about Google Assistant? I've read those are the areas where the box had the most lag (and that using the core AT&T TV service felt pretty quick), and those are the areas that got the biggest boost after making the tweaks I listed.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Prime Video has never been available on every Android TV device


It requires some Amazon store infrastructure to work on some Android TVs. So not only do you have to sideload the Prime app itself but also the Amazon store, which is a major PITA. The only Amazon store apks I could ever find were for phones. So when the app runs on an Android TV, the screen is sideways, stretched and cropped and only works with a BT keyboard and mouse. However there were modified versions of the Prime apk that bypassed the store requirement. Problem was they were hard to find and out of date.

Good to know this tweak speeds up Google Assistant. That was always painfully slow for me, to the point of being unusable.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Have you tried using Netflix or other apps now? How about Google Assistant? I've read those are the areas where the box had the most lag (and that using the core AT&T TV service felt pretty quick), and those are the areas that got the biggest boost after making the tweaks I listed.


I just did. No real improvement, especially with Google Assistant, which got worse. Killed off the changes. Worth trying, but not good as far as I can see.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> I just did. No real improvement, especially with Google Assistant, which got worse. Killed off the changes. Worth trying, but not good as far as I can see.


Well further testing shows some things do better, but Google Assistant isn't one of them for me.

But it really is no big deal as I don't use the ATT box for apps anyway, outside of HBO Max on occasion. Instead I use one of my other better boxes. Usually the FireTV Cube 2nd gen.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> I just did. No real improvement, especially with Google Assistant, which got worse. Killed off the changes. Worth trying, but not good as far as I can see.


Interesting. Multiple others around the web have reported the opposite. Perhaps they were running a different build of the AT&T software? Oh well.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> It requires some Amazon store infrastructure to work on some Android TVs. So not only do you have to sideload the Prime app itself but also the Amazon store, which is a major PITA. The only Amazon store apks I could ever find were for phones. So when the app runs on an Android TV, the screen is sideways, stretched and cropped and only works with a BT keyboard and mouse. However there were modified versions of the Prime apk that bypassed the store requirement. Problem was they were hard to find and out of date.


Amazon has had a Prime Video app specifically for Android TV for a few years now. Sony smart TVs, and then the Nvidia Shield TV, got the app a long while ago, but it was pre-loaded and then updated by the OEM, bypassing Google Play.

And then Google and Amazon declared a truce of sorts last summer and the Prime Video app for Android TV became more broadly available.

Prime Video for Android TV won't be available for all devices - 9to5Google

It showed up on the AirTV Mini dongle last Dec. It finally arrived on the Mi Box S a couple months ago. And of course it was on the TiVo Stream 4K when it debuted recently. I definitely expect it to be on Google's forthcoming Android TV device too.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Interesting. Multiple others around the web have reported the opposite. Perhaps they were running a different build of the AT&T software? Oh well.


Possible and there are a slew of the beta Osprey boxes out there too,


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> it's been talked about before on here. I don't have it.
> 
> The pricing made it DOA to me. It had kind of an "everything you hate about cable" vibe to it.
> 
> YTTV is the service to get if the channel lineup suits you. Of course test all the services for yourself for free.


This was exactly it for me. Why do they continue the charade of great pricing for the first year, stuck behind astronomical 2nd yr pricing and that ridiculous 2 yr commitment?

It's the same old [email protected] They can't get it through their heads that this type of model doesn't fly anymore.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Chuck_IV said:


> This was exactly it for me. Why do they continue the charade of great pricing for the first year, stuck behind astronomical 2nd yr pricing and that ridiculous 2 yr commitment?
> 
> It's the same old [email protected] They can't get it through their heads that this type of model doesn't fly anymore.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While in general I agree with you, subscribing for a year and paying the ETF at the anniversary results in a pretty fair price. And of course, there is always that slight possibility that ATT will pull their heads out of their collective rears and offer some better pricing as subs start dropping the service in that 2nd year.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Interesting. Multiple others around the web have reported the opposite. Perhaps they were running a different build of the AT&T software? Oh well.


Well I went back in and made those changes again this morning and let 'er rip for awhile. Overall seems to speed things up a bit but nothing earth shattering.

ATT could have made the box more powerful to begin with at the same price IMO, but as usual for the ATT/DirecTV box and software designers, it always seems that they take the minimum needed to provide almost reasonable performance. And I suspect that just like with DirecTV's boxes, as software updates/upgrades happen, they will all get slower in operation.

As to the apps on the box, well it would be nice to have Hulu and Prime available but since the box doesn't support Atmos and the performance of apps is nearly as dismal as it is on the Tivo boxes these days, who really cares?

IMO, when HBO Max comes to the Roku I suspect that my ATT Box will join other semi-crappy boxes in a closet.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> ATT could have made the box more powerful to begin with at the same price IMO, but as usual for the ATT/DirecTV box and software designers, it always seems that they take the minimum needed to provide almost reasonable performance. And I suspect that just like with DirecTV's boxes, as software updates/upgrades happen, they will all get slower in operation.


Well, the underlying problem is that the company just took WAY too long to get the AT&T TV service developed and out the door to customers. One of the AT&T bigwigs (Stephenson or Stankey, can't remember) sorta admitted as much in an interview around the time it launched. Here's the history:

Nov. 2016: DirecTV Now launches, serving as the beta development platform to create the software and back-end infrastructure that will eventually support AT&T TV, intended to become their new flagship OTT cable TV service.

Oct. 2017: AT&T submits their Android TV-powered streaming box (the C71 "Osprey") to the FCC for certification. (Variety broke the story here.) So the company had obviously designed the box and its specs earlier in 2017.

early 2018: AT&T's CEO says that their forthcoming flagship service (the "AT&T TV" brand name had yet to be revealed) with its thin-client box (the Osprey) will debut by the end of 2018.

May 2018: The redesigned DirecTV Now app (with a UI and feature set nearly identical to the final AT&T TV software) exits beta and rolls out widely to customers. In addition to the new look and code base, it introduces a new cloud DVR feature (which would remain in beta for well over a year).

Nov. 2018: AT&T begins beta testing the Osprey box with select DirecTV Now subscribers.

March 2020: After multiple delays, AT&T TV, the company's end-goal for OTT cable TV, _*finally*_ exits beta and launches nationwide, shipping with the original Osprey box that had been designed close to three years earlier (albeit with an updated remote control that had been redesigned in 2019 based on beta feedback).

During that lengthy process, available streaming hardware platforms obviously continued to improve but AT&T just stuck with the same ol' box and specs that they had picked out back in 2017. Too bad they didn't pivot over to the hardware used in Sling's AirTV Mini, which was introduced in July 2019. Pretty sure that hardware was simply a reference design that had been offered up by Google (their ADT-3 developer kit device). TiVo would go on to use the same hardware in their TiVo Stream 4K released this year. I imagine AT&T TV would run significantly better on that more advanced chipset.

All that said, it's possible that the existing Osprey's performance will improve if AT&T updates the underlying Android TV OS from version 8.0 to the current 10.0 (which was released to OEMs late last year). I remember reading that one of Google's priorities with version 10 was to make the OS leaner, quicker and more responsive when running on less-capable hardware (which makes sense given that it runs on so many smart TVs and cheap pay TV boxes/dongles).


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Yeah, too long from design to full rollout with no real hardware change. Sounds like they inherited the DirecTV design team! 

Here’s the app issues on various platforms as I see it

ATT’s box - software is really good but hampered a bit with the minimal hardware design. Great remote though.

ATV4K - Great performance in general, much better than ATT’s box. Biggest downside is during FF instead of using a thumbnail to give you a clue where you are it attempts to manipulate the whole screen and can’t keep up. Generally throwing an error that really is just BS as it simply is trying to what it can’t do. Downside is the pee-poor remote for the AppleTV IMO.

FireTV Cube (2nd Gen) - performs very well on this box but the only indicator for FF is a time bar, no thumbnail or any other indication. The remote for the FireTV works well with the app IMO. Note I tried the app on my 1st gen Cube and it really sucked, twitchy video, sluggish and frequent crashes.

Roku Ultra (the current model) - Probably the best version of the app, thumbnails are there, voice controls are similar to what the ATT box does. Performance is on par with the Cube and ATV4K.


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## Tobashadow (Nov 11, 2006)

I have one of the beta boxes, used it a couple times and went back to my Roku. 

Sitting in a drawer now.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

AT&T Watch TV, the $15/month streaming service, is no longer available to new subscribers. It didn't have a cloud DVR or even support on Roku, but targeted cord-cutters with a mix of channels like TBS and TCM, and was half the price of Sling Blue ($30/month).

Interestingly, the AT&T Watch TV website doesn't advise new potential subscribers to check out either AT&T Now or AT&T TV.

AT&T is killing its cheap TV bundle for cord cutters


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

hahathatsfunny said:


> Interestingly, the AT&T Watch TV website doesn't advise new potential subscribers to check out either AT&T Now or AT&T TV.


I'm sure AT&T would rather those potential new subscribers instead spend their $15 on HBO Max.


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## TK978 (Jan 6, 2017)

mdavej said:


> NashGuy, does this developer mode have an option to allow apps from unknown sources?




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/DirecTVNow/comments/bk483i


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

Does AT&T TV integrate into the Tivo Stream 4k guide yet?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Jmartz said:


> Does AT&T TV integrate into the Tivo Stream 4k guide yet?


No. I would think there would need to at least be an AT&T TV app first, which there isn't.


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

So the current app that works on most of the newer devices (and osprey) is not available yet on the Stream 4k? Has anyone tried to "cast" AT&T TV to the device?

The Osprey Box doesn't allow Prime Video to be installed but I have no problem casting Prime Video to the Osprey....


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Jmartz said:


> So the current app that works on most of the newer devices (and osprey) is not available yet on the Stream 4k? Has anyone tried to "cast" AT&T TV to the device?
> 
> The Osprey Box doesn't allow Prime Video to be installed but I have no problem casting Prime Video to the Osprey....


There is no Android TV version of the app in the Play store period. Doesn't matter if you're talking about the Stream 4k, Nvidia Shield, Google Chromecast, whatever Android TV device. The app doesn't exist outside of the Osprey itself.

However, you've always been able to sideload the Fire TV apk onto most Android TV devices. I don't recall if anyone has reported loading it on the Stream 4k. But I've personally loaded it on several other Android TV devices.

Likewise, you can sideload the Fire TV Prime apk onto the Osprey as far as I know. At least you could a few months ago.

What exactly is your goal, AT&T on the Stream 4k or Prime on the Osprey? Both should be possible.


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

I want to get fiber internet. The cable company here (Altice) offers it for a great price to new customers "for life" (whatever that means) - The problem right now is they aren't offering TV service with the fiber and they won't let you have copper TV and fiber internet. It's weird. My father loves the Tivo Roamio Pro that I bought him a few years ago. Since the cable company will not allow us to have fiber + copper for TV - I can't keep the CableCard active.

AT&T TV is super convenient. The Tivo Roamio Pro is still working great but it's old technology and in order to get fiber I have to convince my father to give up the Roamio Pro.

That is my goal. I was hoping that by installing the AT&T TV app onto the Tivo Stream 4K that it would populate the channels and their numbers into the Tivo guide. Kinda like when you install Pluto TV on a Amazon FireTV - it becomes available as a "source" for channels in the built-in firetv software - that also lists local OTA channels if scanned.

Maybe that's just not how the thing works, but man I wish it would work that way.

Jeff


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Why not just switch to Youtube TV which DOES populate the guide on the Fire TV? It's far, far, far better than AT&T TV anyway, and cheaper.


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

I need channel numbers and we are ok paying a premium for the convenience. (I am ok paying...) My father is old school.. and frankly so am I with regards to this type of stuff. I tried Youtube TV. Nobody in the family really liked it so it was cancelled when the trial expired.

I'm using the Osprey box at a second property. The association provides DirecTV but not a good package. I signed up for AT&T TV and am using the Osprey and it's nicer than the garbage software they have loaded onto their DirecTV Set top boxes.

Off topic but this is the service DirecTV should be and it would go into the "amazing" category if they ever integrated it into the stream 4k. AT&T has something good going hopefully they don't muck it up like the other stuff.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

Just buy a used Osprey box off of eBay and side load the Prime and Hulu apps. After that just install it at your dad’s place and login with your account there. It will work and it will show the local network channels for the area it’s installed in. If that’s different than your area then you can’t record from them but if you setup a season pass to a show he wants to watch from a network station, it’ll record from where your main Osprey is, but be able to be watched where he is.


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

I don't need Prime. I want the Tivo Stream 4k dongle to have the ability to integrate with AT&T TV to keep the on screen interface somewhat familiar. 

You don't need to Sideload Prime into the Osprey you can cast to it just fine without installing the app on the Osprey.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Jmartz said:


> I don't need Prime. I want the Tivo Stream 4k dongle to have the ability to integrate with AT&T TV to keep the on screen interface somewhat familiar.
> 
> You don't need to Sideload Prime into the Osprey you can cast to it just fine without installing the app on the Osprey.


Even if the app eventually makes it to the stream 4K, it won't have channel numbers. None of the other versions do (roku, Fire , Apple). Kudos on casting Prime. My parents couldn't do that if their lives depended on it. Sideloading works much better for them.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

If the TiVo Stream 4K supported AT&T IPTV, I would cancel Xfinity's TV service and just use the Stream.


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

AT&T TV would be wise to try and get themselves into the Tivo ecosystem. What I'm confused about now is why does Tivo give you a remote with numbers on it if they don't work on the apps?

The first streaming provider that figures out a way to integrate their DVR/TV into Tivo software will win my business and I would bet big bucks a lot of other people would go for it as well.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Jmartz said:


> AT&T TV would be wise to try and get themselves into the Tivo ecosystem. What I'm confused about now is why does Tivo give you a remote with numbers on it if they don't work on the apps?
> 
> The first streaming provider that figures out a way to integrate their DVR/TV into Tivo software will win my business and I would bet big bucks a lot of other people would go for it as well.


Sling already did it. That's Stream 4k's biggest selling point. It's plastered all over the product page ( TiVo Stream 4K | Make your favorite apps feel like TV ). What you really mean is the first provider to integrate with channel numbers. That's never going to happen. Number have no relevance in apps. Why would I memorize a bunch of numbers when all I need to do is say, "watch CBS"?

Tivo gave you a remote with useless numbers because people love the peanut shaped remote and would freak out if the numbers were missing. It is unfortunate they don't actually do anything, but that's what Tivo chose to do.

If you're talking about your Tivo Roamio, why would anybody spend hundreds on a hardware DVR only to use a streaming app's software DVR on it? Tivo is a dinosaur on the brink of extinction. They are never going to integrate streaming apps or any other apps for that matter. Their streaming device, the Stream 4k, is just a pale imitation of other streaming devices that have been around for decades and can't even integrate with other Tivos, much less more than one lousy streaming service.

The best streaming DVR service and platform right now is Fire TV. It integrates several streaming services into its guide as well as the Recast DVR's live over-the-air channels. The Stream 4k is far more limited, as you've already discovered.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

mdavej said:


> The best streaming DVR service and platform right now is Fire TV. It integrates several streaming services into its guide as well as the Recast DVR's live over-the-air channels. The Stream 4k is far more limited, as you've already discovered.


That's a pretty fair assessment, the integration of a few things makes for a compelling argument. The overall UI can be a bit frustrating for some, and it does tend to emphasize Amazon offerings a bit more. But it has an 'up next' that works across quite a few sources.

AppleTV also has a very good 'up next' strip that works across quite a few services too. No integration of live streams though.

It should be noted that none of the 'up next' implementations work for anything other than recordings for those apps it supports.

But the bigger problem with streaming is all about convenience. It just simply is not as convenient as cable/sat, probably never will be. Because it isn't just the UI of whichever streaming box you use, it is that in most cases, each service's app isn't consistent across platforms and each service's app does their own UI which is different from the box's UI.

ATT's Osprey box's biggest benefit is that it is as close to cable/sat as you'll probably get for some time. But ATT chose to use a woefully underpowered device to do it with. And based on the history of the box development, they haven't done much other than bug fixes since release.


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

Thank you for the response it's helpful that this stuff is being cleared up now before I go and buy it.

The Roamio was activated in 2014 and has lifetime service. I'm not selling it until I can get this figured out.

Thanks for the info about the Tivo Stream. Seems like the remote is misleading advertising. It sets expectations higher than they should be.

I need something that turns on to TV right away.


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

The Osprey got a major (I think) update a few weeks ago. Its faster now and you can push channel numbers and it goes right to the channel now. No more popup guide then "select" and they also remodeled the DVR list to have folders.

Seems like I'm going to have to convince him to use the Osprey. It's really a nice device I was just hoping to keep a Tivo around, I've had Tivos for a long time going back a hot minute so it's gonna be tough letting it go!



lparsons21 said:


> That's a pretty fair assessment, the integration of a few things makes for a compelling argument. The overall UI can be a bit frustrating for some, and it does tend to emphasize Amazon offerings a bit more. But it has an 'up next' that works across quite a few sources.
> 
> AppleTV also has a very good 'up next' strip that works across quite a few services too. No integration of live streams though.
> 
> ...


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Jmartz said:


> The Osprey got a major (I think) update a few weeks ago. Its faster now and you can push channel numbers and it goes right to the channel now. No more popup guide then "select" and they also remodeled the DVR list to have folders.
> 
> Seems like I'm going to have to convince him to use the Osprey. It's really a nice device I was just hoping to keep a Tivo around, I've had Tivos for a long time going back a hot minute so it's gonna be tough letting it go!


Yeah, it is a bit faster than what it used to be, but compared to FireTV Cube 2nd gen and AppeTV of any generation, it is a pig! 

Here's an oddity that showed up this morning. I have ATT TV and Sling plus I have 2 OTA DVRs, the Amazon Recast and AIrTV Anywhere. The only one of the devices that would record the final day of the Masters is the Recast! All the others didn't fire the timer and won't even let me start a recording from Live now. Damned weird!


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

BillyClyde said:


> Just buy a used Osprey box off of eBay and side load the Prime and Hulu apps. After that just install it at your dad's place and login with your account there. It will work and it will show the local network channels for the area it's installed in. If that's different than your area then you can't record from them but if you setup a season pass to a show he wants to watch from a network station, it'll record from where your main Osprey is, but be able to be watched where he is.





Jmartz said:


> I don't need Prime. I want the Tivo Stream 4k dongle to have the ability to integrate with AT&T TV to keep the on screen interface somewhat familiar.
> 
> You don't need to Sideload Prime into the Osprey you can cast to it just fine without installing the app on the Osprey.





Jmartz said:


> The Osprey got a major (I think) update a few weeks ago. Its faster now and you can push channel numbers and it goes right to the channel now. No more popup guide then "select" and they also remodeled the DVR list to have folders.
> 
> *Seems like I'm going to have to convince him to use the Osprey. It's really a nice device* I was just hoping to keep a Tivo around, I've had Tivos for a long time going back a hot minute so it's gonna be tough letting it go!


This is what I was trying to say. That the Osprey is the closest thing to TiVo while being a streaming service and box with channel numbers.

I was also pointing out that if you install one at his place to use, then you don't need another separate subscription since it can be linked to your account.


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## Jmartz (Nov 7, 2003)

BillyClyde said:


> This is what I was trying to say. That the Osprey is the closest thing to TiVo while being a streaming service and box with channel numbers.
> 
> I was also pointing out that if you install one at his place to use, then you don't need another separate subscription since it can be linked to your account.


We live together... So I've used my box in Salt Lake in Nyc And it updates the local channels and even RSNs... It's a portable service. I don't know if that violates the terms but they do limit you to three streams so I don't think it's really that big of a concern?


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

Jmartz said:


> We live together... So I've used my box in Salt Lake in Nyc And it updates the local channels and even RSNs... It's a portable service. I don't know if that violates the terms but they do limit you to three streams so I don't think it's really that big of a concern?


No it's not a concern. They allow it and it's designed that way. They even talk about it on their website iirc.


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## LosAngelesSports (Aug 15, 2006)

After 17 years of tivo, I was forced to give it up for att tv since I moved to a new building and it's all they offer.

What an absolute mess the dvr is. Can't pad recordings, which is a massive issue for sports, won't record some shows for random reasons (for example, I can record a Tuesday and Thursday episode of jeopardy, but not the wed one because there aren't any airings available) and random recordings show up on my list. Disaster


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

mdavej said:


> The best streaming DVR service and platform right now is Fire TV. It integrates several streaming services into its guide as well as the Recast DVR's live over-the-air channels. The Stream 4k is far more limited, as you've already discovered.


Big fan of the Recast -- and the Sling TV DVR -- but, for broadcast television, TiVo has a better guide and better trick play. Recast is best for a lot of people, but, despite owning all of the alternatives, I still prefer the Roamio/OTA for watching television.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

*AT&T TV Now Merges With AT&T TV*

AT&T TV Now Merges With AT&T TV - The TV Answer Man!

*AT&T is merging streaming services AT&T TV and TV Now. Here's what it means*

AT&T is merging streaming services AT&T TV and TV Now. Here's what it means

As part of the merger, AT&T is also removing the requirement that AT&T TV customers use at least one of its streaming boxes, called AT&T TV Stream, and it is also getting rid of AT&T TV's mandatory contract.

From now on, AT&T TV will be month-to-month, just like AT&T TV Now. AT&T says that current contracts will remain in effect, but once they expire, customers can move to a month-to-month payment option.

AT&T TV's noncontract packages start at $70 per month for a base Entertainment package that includes ESPN, CNN and FX, as well as local broadcast channels and 20 hours of cloud DVR. An additional $10 per month boosts the DVR storage to 500 hours per month. Regional sports are included starting in the Choice package, which runs $85 per month without a contract and includes a year of HBO Max and NBA League Pass Premium.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

The article you quote is incorrect. Here’s what really happened today.

1. Just to get this out of the way first, there was NEVER are requirement to use the ATT box though you got one free with the ATT TV contract service.

2. There are now 2 ways to subscribe to ATT TV

First is no-contract and it has no box included though you can now buy one. And it has 3 subscription levels offered. It comes with 20 hours of DVR but you can up that to 500 hours for $10/month.

2nd is the contract service which includes one ATT box you can use or not, and it has 5 subscription levels. it comes with 500 hours of DVR space. Prices are less the 1st year and about double in the 2nd year. Notable change to this from what was there yesterday is that it no longer has the $200 rebate as a signup bonus.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I can't say this wasn't expected (but welcome) to anyone (who) saw how dumb it was that ATT had 2 different yet similarly named similar services and how the websites even crossed streams at times. And of course the 2 yr contract thing seemed completely out of touch with the new reality of streaming tv. Also seemed like they were tilting at towers by sending customers an ATT-branded box as if they had any hope of achieving scale with said box.

I'll have to check them out again to see if (anything) really changed except for the ATT Now name.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Which one is right for you. Even their marketing doesn't make the 2 yr contract very attractive...

*NO ANNUAL CONTRACT*

1. More consistent monthly pricing starting at $69.99/mo. + tax, no big price jump at month 13.

2. Add 1 or more AT&T TV devices for $5/mo. each for 24 months.

3. Regional Sports Fee included in monthly price for CHOICETM Package and above.

4. 20 hours Cloud DVR included. Make it 500 hours for $10/mo.

5. Cancel anytime.

*2-YEAR CONTRACT*

1. Lower first-year offer pricing starting at $59.99/mo. + tax, price increases in second year, currently starting at $93/mo.

2. First AT&T TV device included for well-qualified customers, add one or more for $10/mo. each for 12 months.

3. Regional Sports Fee up to $8.49/mo. for CHOICETM Package and above.

4. 500 hours Cloud DVR included.

5. Early cancellation fees.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Their website is a bit of a mess.

For example, in big letters, on the front page, at the very top, it says, "*The best of live TV and on demand, now with no annual contract*"

So you say great and click "Shop Now" directly underneath. But voila, you get only 2 yr contract plans. lol.

Meanwhile on the same initial ATT TV front page you don't see any mention of 2 yr contracts even being an option unless you scroll way way way down.

But I digress.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

As we get involved with the changes, I think we should also consider the changes that have gone on in the last year with all the live streaming services.

A year ago $70/month would have been considered excessively high for a live streamer. But today it is right in there with other services.

YTTV = $65/month
Sling Blue+Gold+TotalTV = $70/month to make it comparable to YTTV in channel counts and depth.
Hulu+Live= $65/month but quickly goes up when you get the expanded DVR which also gives trickplay.

ATT TV no-contract = $70/month for their Entertainment package, but if you need more than a 20 hour DVR then it rises to $80/month for their base package. Other ATT pluses are the best live streaming PQ and AQ, a better UI for most things. And another plus is that it is the only service with Fox/Sinclair RSNs if those are important and otherwise has the widest range of channel availability depending on subscriptions level.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

For those that have gone to AT&T TV service, or are considering it, the Osprey box, AT&T’s very decent streaming box’s current version of software is dated December 3rd. This update has speeded up the box quite a bit making it a candidate to be the ‘one box’ depending on services you want in addition to ATT’s service.

Notable Amazon Prime app is available in the Play store, that just happened a few days ago. Hulu is still missing, but v2.1.3 can be sideloaded and it works well.

And suddenly I’m getting ATMOS audio in Prime and Disney+ which wasn’t the case a few days ago.

And for those that think $120 for the box is high, well I agree! Buy it on EBay for much less just ensure the one you are buying has the ‘new remote’ or ‘Google remote’ in the description.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Latest update version is January 8th. And it seems to be all about speed. Overall operation is much quicker as is app launching.

It is definitely moving up to be my ‘one box’


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Hi,

A few questions, from someone looking into AT&T TV (Currently use an X1 multi-room system after many years of TiVo)

1) How's the picture quality? X1 offers some IP HD content that I couldn't get with TiVo, but all the HD is generally superultracompressed 720p. Coming from TWC-land where 1080i was standard, the differences in some cases can be quite suprising.

2) How's the performance of the box? X1 boxes have little hangups where you click something and you can count out "one, two, three" before the screen changes (mainly loading the DVR list, things like that). Maybe I've just been spoiled by years of TiVo's instant response.

3) How is the 3 stream limit handled? I'd have 4 units (Living room, master bed, 2nd bed, kitchen). There may be times where I leave my master TV on with the others being used - do I get a choice of which stream gets bounced? Do I get a "You can't do that" like a Mini on an over-subscribed host? Does it just bounce the oldest/"stalest" stream automatically? Or could I just pay for more streams like you could back in the U-Verse TV days?

4) How good of an approximation of a "legacy cable" experience is it? My retired father lives with me, and he's pretty attached to the legacy experience (guide, real channel numbers, DVR list) - teaching him other ways is likely to be more trouble than it's worth

5) Can I load in the PBS app since AT&T TV doesn't have linear PBS? I'm a member of my local station (WTTW Passport) if that matters. 

Thanks!


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

1. The HD PQ is excellent, most channels in 1080 with the highest bitrate of any live streaming service.

2. The performance of the box has improved quite a bit. With the January 8th update it is much quicker and more pleasant to use. In those areas where it isn’t so fast, well, you get used to it.

3. Not sure how they handle the 3 stream limit. Supposedly the last one to try to get a stream will be the one that doesn’t happen if it is beyond the 3 stream limit. 

4. The UI when using the AT&T streaming box is quite similar to cable/sat in most ways. That was the design goal and they did a pretty good job of it.

5. Yes, you can load the PBS app on it as it is available in the Google Play Store for it.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

lhvetinari said:


> Hi,
> 
> A few questions, from someone looking into AT&T TV (Currently use an X1 multi-room system after many years of TiVo)


I don't know how this would work for your current X1 multi-room BUT I have an XG1V4 that I use with a premium HDMI splitter and a 20+ft HDMI cable to a second location. I of course am the only user so that works well for me. I also have CableCARD Tivo and Mini also through AVR at each display. You have no Tivo any longer?


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

lparsons21 said:


> 1. The HD PQ is excellent, most channels in 1080 with the highest bitrate of any live streaming service.
> 
> 2. The performance of the box has improved quite a bit. With the January 8th update it is much quicker and more pleasant to use. In those areas where it isn't so fast, well, you get used to it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick response. Looks like it'll mostly do what's needed - the HD PQ is a big benefit, X1 bit-starves to a point that should be illegal - 3-4mbps, in some cases.

The 3 stream thing might be a small problem - I'd rather it say "Hey, we need to turn <location> off" than just refuse to open a stream, but hey, maybe that convinces my dad to stop leaving the TV in his bedroom on all day when he's not in there.



WVZR1 said:


> I don't know how this would work for your current X1 multi-room BUT I have an XG1V4 that I use with a premium HDMI splitter and a 20+ft HDMI cable to a second location. I of course am the only user so that works well for me. I also have CableCARD Tivo and Mini also through AVR at each display. You have no Tivo any longer?


Four rooms, so that way wouldn't work.

I have my TiVo stuff still, but not in active use - same issues re: poor picture quality. They're lifetime so I'll keep them in case I move somewhere with better cable.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

4th stream fails to load. So stop one stream before attempting to add another.

Box is very close to typical cable box experience.

My biggest issue with AT&T TV is price. It costs the same as satellite yet performs worse (limited number of streams, less storage, inferior trick play, no live buffer, no PBS, etc.).

If you’re paying top dollar, may as well get the real deal. If you want to save money, get YTTV which has a far better DVR, user profiles, custom channel lists and local PBS channel. PBS app is ok, but doesn’t have everything.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

mdavej said:


> 4th stream fails to load. So stop one stream before attempting to add another.
> 
> Box is very close to typical cable box experience.
> 
> ...


1) Hmph. Suppose I could work around the stream thing. Do streams time out after being left unattended for a few hours, like TiVo Minis do?

2) Good, that'd make it easier.

3) Can't get sat, I'm in a west-facing apartment with another building directly to my south. My entire south wall is tree-lined. It's either Comcast, streaming, or OTA (also not great). Limited streams might be a pain, but it'd have more storage than my current X1 (150 hrs) and than my old TiVo system (300 total hours between 2 boxes). I was under the impression Osprey boxes had been updated to include live-TV buffering and trickplay.

4) I'm paying top dollar with Xfinity - I have no problem with paying good money for a good product. X1 rubs me the wrong way because I'm paying top-dollar for crappy PQ and sluggish boxes. YTTV, with the more series-oriented DVR and lack of channel numbers, would likely be different enough to fail the WAF test.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

lhvetinari said:


> Four rooms, so that way wouldn't work.
> 
> I have my TiVo stuff still, but not in active use - same issues re: poor picture quality. They're lifetime so I'll keep them in case I move somewhere with better cable.


Somewhat surprised that you don't have a CableCARD and a Tivo operational.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

To be fair, ALL of the live streaming services have limited number of streams, and some even restrict where those streams can be used. ATT doesn’t restrict location so sharing an account is possible. YTTV is the same in that respect.

And yes, there are limits to cloud storage for almost all of the live streaming services, but none of them are good as archival DVR’s as they all expire at some defined point. Frankly I’ve never exceeded about 50 hours of cloud DVR useage on any service.

I loved the user profiles that YTTV offered. The customer channel list is nice but the actual guide is not at all good IMO.

As to pricing, well yeah, ATT’s is a big higher and for that you get a picture as good as or better than DirecTV satellite service offers, and you get DD5.1 audio which no other live streamer offers.

Which is the best service? The correct answer is always ‘it depends’ followed by a list of what is important to you.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

lhvetinari said:


> 1) Hmph. Suppose I could work around the stream thing. Do streams time out after being left unattended for a few hours, like TiVo Minis do?
> 
> 3) Can't get sat, I'm in a west-facing apartment with another building directly to my south. My entire south wall is tree-lined. It's either Comcast, streaming, or OTA (also not great). Limited streams might be a pain, but it'd have more storage than my current X1 (150 hrs) and than my old TiVo system (300 total hours between 2 boxes). I was under the impression Osprey boxes had been updated to include live-TV buffering and trickplay.


1. The box times out after some period of time which would kill the stream too I suppose. I'm the only one watching at my home and no way to actually test that.

3. With the Osprey box there is some live-TV buffering, but it isn't much at all, which affects how valuable trickplay is with it. I just record everything that I think I would want to use trickplay with.

BTW, AT&T (and YTTV) both participate in TVE apps so one way around the stream limit is to use the channel specific apps. Of course they don't do ad-skipping at all.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> My biggest issue with AT&T TV is price. It costs the same as satellite yet performs worse (limited number of streams, less storage, inferior trick play, no live buffer, no PBS, etc.).


Less DVR storage than satellite? AT&T TV stores 500 hrs, while the DirecTV Genie only stores about 200 hrs of HD. (The DISH Hopper 3 can store 500 hrs. of HD, though.) Now, that said, your recordings do auto-delete on AT&T TV after 90 days, which kinda sucks. With a satellite DVR, you can retain those recordings as long as you like.

And you're also wrong about the live buffer. If you're using the AT&T TV streaming box, you can pause live TV and then rewind and FF within the buffer. You just can't do it in the AT&T TV app on other devices like Apple TV, Roku, etc.

Yes, AT&T TV is still (inexplicably, IMO) missing PBS stations as well as a handful of smaller channels available on DirecTV (e.g. C-SPAN, INSP, etc.). And if you value the ability to pause something (e.g. sports) and then do super slo-mo frame-by-frame advance, that's probably not something you can do on AT&T TV like you can with a local hard-drive-based DVR on cable or satellite. I don't think any streaming service offers that kind of trick play. Also, DirecTV offers certain content (mainly select live sports) in 4K and 4K HDR, while AT&T TV doesn't (yet) do so. So, yeah, if those things are important to you, you'd be better served by getting the same channel package on DirecTV rather than AT&T TV. But you'll also pay more because DirecTV has a little higher monthly prices for the same packages while also charging more for service to your 2nd and 3rd TV.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

With the Osprey box you can pause live TV but the buffer is only about 2 minutes. Instead of doing that, I just hit the record button and then it all works great.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> With the Osprey box you can pause live TV but the buffer is only about 2 minutes. Instead of doing that, I just hit the record button and then it all works great.


Didn't it used to be longer than that? Given the 16 GB of storage that the box has, I don't see why it can't locally cache far more than just 2 minutes. My Apple TV 4K (32 GB storage) can buffer far more than that (30 min or more?) with live OTA TV via the Channels app, and that stuff is encoded in MPEG-2, not the more efficient codec (H.264 or H.265) that AT&T TV uses.

Hmm, maybe that's an issue that will be addressed in the forthcoming second-gen box from AT&T TV.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I have no idea if it had been longer in the past as I never actually used it, or if I did I forgot.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I am leaning against ATT TV when my Comcast Contract expires but could somebody in the know post real world pricing examples:


Fiber Internet
ATT TV base price
SetTop Box pricing for potentially 3 TVs (Can you buy them)
Advantageousness of settop box over apps
Potential VOIP line cost
All the little Taxes and fees
Something else
From what I see its really no cheaper and maybe more expensive than Comcast especially after promo pricing. The problem is they never give you total pricing.

Now I realize there are other scenarios like just the Fiber and streaming services.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Less DVR storage than satellite? ... your recordings do auto-delete on AT&T TV after 90 days, which kinda sucks. With a satellite DVR, you can retain those recordings as long as you like.


That's what I had in mind but failed to state clearly.



> And you're also wrong about the live buffer. If you're using the AT&T TV streaming box, you can pause live TV and then rewind and FF within the buffer. You just can't do it in the AT&T TV app on other devices like Apple TV, Roku, etc.


I've heard lots of different stories about this. Back when I had AT&T, the buffer on the box was only a couple of minutes and you couldn't not ffwd/rew at will, only pause/resume or catch up to live. On DirecTV it's at least an hour and on several tuners, similar to Tivo. How long is the buffer on AT&T?



> Yes, AT&T TV is still (inexplicably, IMO) missing PBS stations as well as a handful of smaller channels available on DirecTV (e.g. C-SPAN, INSP, etc.). And if you value the ability to pause something (e.g. sports) and then do super slo-mo frame-by-frame advance, that's probably not something you can do on AT&T TV like you can with a local hard-drive-based DVR on cable or satellite. I don't think any streaming service offers that kind of trick play. Also, DirecTV offers certain content (mainly select live sports) in 4K and 4K HDR, while AT&T TV doesn't (yet) do so. So, yeah, if those things are important to you, you'd be better served by getting the same channel package on DirecTV rather than AT&T TV. But you'll also pay more because DirecTV has a little higher monthly prices for the same packages while also charging more for service to your 2nd and 3rd TV.


Also what I had in mind in my comparison. Trick play on YTTV isn't nearly as good as Tivo or DirecTV, but it's a lot better than AT&T TV's. It's quicker and more precise and you get thumbnails of where you are while skipping.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

zalusky said:


> I am leaning against ATT TV when my Comcast Contract expires but could somebody in the know post real world pricing examples:
> 
> 
> Fiber Internet
> ...


Can't help on the internet side as I don't have AT&T's internet available here. For the TV service:

ATT TV Base price = $70 for Entertainment level, no contract, no free box, 20 hour DVR. Add $10 to up that to 500 hour DVR. Note there is a contract version of their offering, check the website.

Box cost = $120 if bought from AT&T, usually $50-$60 on EBay. Note they are always bought not leased.

The set top box is the best way to use the service. The remote is superb for dealing with the service. Lots of dedicated buttons just makes it easier. And voice control/search is on it too. The ATT TV app on FireTV or Roku is fine, but no channel numbers and you use various menus because of the relatively simple remotes. I personally don't like the ATT TV App on AppleTV because the remote is a real PITA to use for ff/REW.

As to taxes and fees. Taxes are a local thing, no national taxes on streaming services yet. Fees? Well for Choice or above subscription level there is RSN fees which vary and I think the top is $8.49/month, depends on your area.

If you have AT&T internet available to you, there may be some bundling deals, you'd have to talk to AT&T for those.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

mdavej said:


> That's what I had in mind but failed to state clearly.
> 
> I've heard lots of different stories about this. Back when I had AT&T, the buffer on the box was only a couple of minutes and you couldn't not ffwd/rew at will, only pause/resume or catch up to live. On DirecTV it's at least an hour and on several tuners, similar to Tivo. How long is the buffer on AT&T?
> 
> Also what I had in mind in my comparison. Trick play on YTTV isn't nearly as good as Tivo or DirecTV, but it's a lot better than AT&T TV's. It's quicker and more precise and you get thumbnails of where you are while skipping.


The buffer on the box is still about 2 minutes but you can ff/REW at will but with only 2 minutes to play with, it isn't worth it IMO.

AT&T TV's trickplay with the box is as good as anyone else's IMO. On both the Roku and ATT's Osprey box ff/REW has a thumbnail. On AppleTV it doesn't.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

zalusky said:


> I am leaning against ATT TV when my Comcast Contract expires but could somebody in the know post real world pricing examples:
> 
> 
> Fiber Internet
> ...


I've done comparisons multiple times just playing around as a new customer on the Comcast and AT&T websites building similar packages of TV and internet. When you take everything into account, the pricing is very similar between the two over a 2-yr period, but with AT&T, you'll pay less the first year and get up-front Visa gift cards.

Right now you get $200 in gift cards for signing up for AT&T Fiber; there are no gift cards for AT&T TV. If you want more than 20 hrs of cloud DVR and you want at least one of the custom boxes for AT&T TV, then you come out better to take the two-year contract on AT&T TV. If not, or if you think you will only want to subscribe to cable TV a few months of the year here and there, go the contract-free route.

IMO, the difference between Comcast and AT&T, for TV+internet, comes down to quality. The costs are going to be pretty similar when you get a similar set of services and equipment. But AT&T Fiber is better internet and AT&T TV has far better HD picture quality. OTOH, Comcast will let you use your TiVo, giving you an arguably better DVR experience. And if you use your own cable modem and router, and you've already paid for lifetime service on your TiVo equipment, and you don't need unlimited broadband data (and therefore don't need to pay Comcast an extra $30/mo to waive the data cap), then you'll probably come out spending less on Comcast.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> I've done comparisons multiple times just playing around as a new customer on the Comcast and AT&T websites building similar packages of TV and internet. When you take everything into account, the pricing is very similar between the two over a 2-yr period, but with AT&T, you'll pay less the first year and get up-front Visa gift cards.
> 
> Right now you get $200 in gift cards for signing up for AT&T Fiber; there are no gift cards for AT&T TV. If you want more than 20 hrs of cloud DVR and you want at least one of the custom boxes for AT&T TV, then you come out better to take the two-year contract on AT&T TV. If not, or if you think you will only want to subscribe to cable TV a few months of the year here and there, go the contract-free route.
> 
> IMO, the difference between Comcast and AT&T, for TV+internet, comes down to quality. The costs are going to be pretty similar when you get a similar set of services and equipment. But AT&T Fiber is better internet and AT&T TV has far better HD picture quality. OTOH, Comcast will let you use your TiVo, giving you an arguably better DVR experience. And if you use your own cable modem and router, and you've already paid for lifetime service on your TiVo equipment, and you don't need unlimited broadband data (and therefore don't need to pay Comcast an extra $30/mo to waive the data cap), then you'll probably come out spending less on Comcast.


If you are interested in an apples-to-apples comparison and you are going to factor in promotional gift cards, then you ought to include the same for Comcast, which periodically has an offer of $50/$100/$150 gift cards for the various bundle tiers (among other promotional discounts that come and go).

For my purposes, I leave off such promotions in making generic price comparisons--as opposed to snapshot overviews for a specific purpose or consumer.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> IMO, the difference between Comcast and AT&T, for TV+internet, comes down to quality. The costs are going to be pretty similar when you get a similar set of services and equipment. But AT&T Fiber is better internet and AT&T TV has far better HD picture quality. OTOH, Comcast will let you use your TiVo, giving you an arguably better DVR experience. And if you use your own cable modem and router, and you've already paid for lifetime service on your TiVo equipment, and you don't need unlimited broadband data (and therefore don't need to pay Comcast an extra $30/mo to waive the data cap), then you'll probably come out spending less on Comcast.


Great summation, that's what I've seen comparing the two (never had AT&T, just looking at comments like yours). The PQ on Comcast is really the main downside of the service, it's shameful that they've chosen to keep it so poor even though they've add little HD on QAM. And the BS fees that keep going up and you can't avoid...


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

slowbiscuit said:


> Great summation, that's what I've seen comparing the two (never had AT&T, just looking at comments like yours). The PQ on Comcast is really the main downside of the service, it's shameful that they've chosen to keep it so poor *even though they've add little HD on QAM*. And the BS fees that keep going up and you can't avoid...


Quite the opposite, as we know: they are continuing the slow migration of individual channels to IP only or moving them up the service tiers. Just now I noticed that in our region the Cartoon Network will be moved to Preferred or Digital Preferred as of April 13.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> If you are interested in an apples-to-apples comparison and you are going to factor in promotional gift cards, then you ought to include the same for Comcast, which periodically has an offer of $50/$100/$150 gift cards for the various bundle tiers (among other promotional discounts that come and go).
> 
> For my purposes, I leave off such promotions in making generic price comparisons--as opposed to snapshot overviews for a specific purpose or consumer.


Comcast is much spottier in terms of offering up-front gift cards and when they do, it only seems to be for very specific pre-configured bundles. Although yes, you can sometimes get a card there. With AT&T Fiber, they've consistently offered a gift card for a long time for standalone internet online orders (and for awhile were offering an additional one if bundling AT&T TV with Fiber but that doesn't seem to be the case now).

BTW, in order to get the full $200 in gift cards for signing up for AT&T Fiber, pause on the cart screen for several seconds before beginning the checkout process. Because you will initially only have a $100 gift card in the cart but if you hesitate just a bit, a pop-up appears offering you a second one.

Another tip: join Rakuten (a free cash-back shopping program) first. Find the AT&T Fiber page on their site and then click through from there to go to ATT.com. Complete your order there within the next several minutes (you should know ahead of time exactly what you're going to order) and you'll get anywhere from $37.50 to $75 cash back from Rakuten, in addition to your cash back from AT&T.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

chiguy50 said:


> Quite the opposite, as we know: they are continuing the slow migration of individual channels to IP only or moving them up the service tiers. Just now I noticed that in our region the Cartoon Network will be moved to Preferred or Digital Preferred as of April 13.


What arses me about it is that all new HD is IP-only, so there's no "QAM's full!" excuse to keeping the new channels to 720p.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

slowbiscuit said:


> Great summation, that's what I've seen comparing the two (never had AT&T, just looking at comments like yours). The PQ on Comcast is really the main downside of the service, it's shameful that they've chosen to keep it so poor even though they've add little HD on QAM. And the BS fees that keep going up and you can't avoid...


Yes. When you're figuring out costs for Comcast Xfinity TV, you always have to include their ever-increasing broadcast TV fee plus the RSN fee (which applies to pretty much every package except Basic, i.e. the locals-only package). On AT&T TV, there's never a separate broadcast TV fee; that's just built into the advertised package cost (which is what should be required by law, IMO).

The RSN fee is a bit weird on AT&T TV, though. If you go with the 2-yr contract, then there's a separate RSN fee (up to $8.50/mo, I think, but varies a bit by location) on the Choice and up packages. (Unlike Comcast, AT&T TV has a fairly broad channel package with the most popular cable nets but no RSNs. It's called Entertainment, and therefore has no RSN fee. OTOH, AT&T TV does not offer a Basic-type locals-only package.)

BUT if you go with the contract-free, simple everyday pricing route on AT&T TV, then none of the packages have a separate RSN fee. (Although you DO have to pay an extra $10/mo if you want the 500-hr cloud DVR instead of the basic 20-hr DVR; on the contract-based system, the 500-hr DVR is built in and not optional. Likewise, you have to pay extra for the first AT&T TV box if you want one on the contract-free system whereas it's included "for free" on the contract-based system).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Quite the opposite, as we know: they are continuing the slow migration of individual channels to IP only or moving them up the service tiers. Just now I noticed that in our region the Cartoon Network will be moved to Preferred or Digital Preferred as of April 13.


I still wonder if Comcast might take an intermediate step before full QAM shutdown, such as making all the channels on Preferred be IPTV-only while everything on Basic and Extra remains available on both QAM and IPTV. By doing it in phases, based on channel packages, it would spread out the number of folks affected who would need to swap out equipment.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> Box cost = $120 if bought from AT&T, usually $50-$60 on EBay. Note they are always bought not leased.
> 
> The set top box is the best way to use the service. The remote is superb for dealing with the service. Lots of dedicated buttons just makes it easier. And voice control/search is on it too. The ATT TV app on FireTV or Roku is fine, but no channel numbers and you use various menus because of the relatively simple remotes. I personally don't like the ATT TV App on AppleTV because the remote is a real PITA to use for ff/REW.


Just a note for anyone considering AT&T TV right now: a new second-gen version of their custom Android TV streaming box has been spotted. (You can compare specs of the two models here.) It has a considerably better processor (faster, ability to decode the new AV1 codec, etc.). No one knows when AT&T will release it -- who knows, could still be months away, could be next week -- but it's something to keep in mind before buying the existing model.

Per lparsons21, recent software updates for the existing model box have done a lot to make it run faster/smoother, but it's still not perfect. Seems that launching third-party apps (e.g. Netflix, HBO Max, etc.) was particularly slow on it, as well as invoking the Google Assistant via the voice remote. Also, it can't run the modern Hulu app (although, if you know how, you can sideload the older version of the Hulu app). Hopefully all those flaws will be rectified in the new model.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Per lparsons21, recent software updates for the existing model box have done a lot to make it run faster/smoother, but it's still not perfect. Seems that launching third-party apps (e.g. Netflix, HBO Max, etc.) was particularly slow on it, as well as invoking the Google Assistant via the voice remote. Also, it can't run the modern Hulu app (although, if you know how, you can sideload the older version of the Hulu app). Hopefully all those flaws will be rectified in the new model.


The recent update (dated 1/8) speeds everything up. App loading is significantly faster and Google Assistant is very much faster at responding and working.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> The recent update (dated 1/8) speeds everything up. App loading is significantly faster and Google Assistant is very much faster at responding and working.


How would you compare the speed of app launching and Google Assistant on the AT&T TV box now versus those same features on the Apple TV 4K (with Siri) or a recent 4K-model Fire TV (with Alexa)?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> How would you compare the speed of app launching and Google Assistant on the AT&T TV box now versus those same features on the Apple TV 4K (with Siri) or a recent 4K-model Fire TV (with Alexa)?


App launching is slower than the same app on an AppleTV, same comparison for FireTV, but not horribly slow for most apps. Notable CBS:All Access and Peacock are the slowest, but that's true for all devices I've used them on.

Google Assistant is about the same response as Siri or Alexa after the 1st time use in a viewing session. GA is slower coming up the first time you try to use it by some amount that seems to vary for no discernible reason.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> The buffer on the box is still about 2 minutes but you can ff/REW at will but with only 2 minutes to play with, it isn't worth it IMO.
> 
> AT&T TV's trickplay with the box is as good as anyone else's IMO. On both the Roku and ATT's Osprey box ff/REW has a thumbnail. On AppleTV it doesn't.


It's strange that you're reporting a 2-minute live TV buffer using the AT&T TV box while others recently are reporting 90 minutes (which is what I had recalled it being). I think you're only getting 2 minutes because you switched to AT&T TV Now (which never officially offered the box), while AT&T TV lets you pause live TV for 90 minutes.

Click below to read user comments on the subject at Reddit:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATTTv/comments/l8wm3j


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> It's strange that you're reporting a 2-minute live TV buffer using the AT&T TV box while others recently are reporting 90 minutes (which is what I had recalled it being). I think you're only getting 2 minutes because you switched to AT&T TV Now (which never officially offered the box), while AT&T TV lets you pause live TV for 90 minutes.


I don't think this is the whole story since few others have been able to confirm. I remember being able to pause on the box for a very long time. But when I resumed after a very long pause, it jumped to live. There was only a very small buffer. I'll be convinced if somebody posts a picture of a 90 minute progress bar and is able to rewind 90 minutes then fast fwd to live.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

mdavej said:


> I don't think this is the whole story since few others have been able to confirm. I remember being able to pause on the box for a very long time. But when I resumed after a very long pause, it jumped to live. There was only a very small buffer. I'll be convinced if somebody posts a picture of a 90 minute progress bar and is able to rewind 90 minutes then fast fwd to live.


LOL, OK, keep waiting for that screenshot. Here's the top post on that reddit page from 12 days ago:

_You can pause and rewind live TV with the box. It is similar to cable/satellite in that you can only rewind to the place you started watching the channel. I am not sure if there is a limit on how long you can pause on the box._​Here's another quote from 11 days ago:

_I have the new no contract version of AttTV and got a box off ebay. I just paused it for over 30 minutes and it picked up where I had paused it for what its worth. It probably would've gone to 90 minutes if I would have let it...probably something that was upgraded when they merged the two services much like the 3 streams.
_​For the record, were you a subscriber to AT&T TV or AT&T TV Now/DirecTV Now? And how did you get your Osprey box? And when you used it, was the cloud DVR still in beta?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

ATT TV Now was just a marketing difference not a technology difference. 

As to pausing, yeah I can pause way more than 2 minutes but it only shows a 2 minute window that moves along. Other than those Reddit posts, reports in other forums are it is 2 minutes or so.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

I took the plunge - the hardware (4 boxes) should be delivered to my house this Saturday afternoon. Using this as an opportunity to do some network cleanup and improvement - moving to MoCA 2.5, getting a new AP for the back hallway to improve 5G band signal in the bedrooms.

Figure I'll give it the 14 days - worse comes to worst, I can always go back to xfinity/my tivos and just deal with the crap picture quality.

Question: Do the boxes have better settings for series recordings? I moved my series recordings over using the iPad app last night, and the only options were "New only/All" - there are some shows with bad data that I want to restrict to certain channels (like Dr. Phil - I only want to record the "new" 3PM showing on my local CBS station, not the "new" reruns off OWN).


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Unfortunately the DVR management is one of the weaker points, even on the box.

One thing I’ve noticed is that in upcoming recordings it will often show all those really not new are going to be recorded, but then it doesn’t record them.

For instance, ‘Mom’ shows that it will record a plethora of episodes over the a few days but then when the day get here the ones not actually new don’t get recorded.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> ATT TV Now was just a marketing difference not a technology difference.
> 
> As to pausing, yeah I can pause way more than 2 minutes but it only shows a 2 minute window that moves along. Other than those Reddit posts, reports in other forums are it is 2 minutes or so.


Nope, if you check out that link someone there specifically addresses the point that AT&T TV Now customers only ever got a 2-minute live TV pause buffer (regardless of whether they use the AT&T box or not) while AT&T TV customers get 90 minutes if they use the box. This is apparently a feature tied to the type of account you had, just like the amount of cloud DVR storage was.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lhvetinari said:


> Question: Do the boxes have better settings for series recordings? I moved my series recordings over using the iPad app last night, and the only options were "New only/All" - there are some shows with bad data that I want to restrict to certain channels (like Dr. Phil - I only want to record the "new" 3PM showing on my local CBS station, not the "new" reruns off OWN).





lparsons21 said:


> Unfortunately the DVR management is one of the weaker points, even on the box.


Yeah, I don't think you're going to get anywhere close to the level of DVR controls on AT&T TV as you're used to on a TiVo. Of course, most cable box DVRs don't give you TiVo-level controls either. But it sounds like it's an especially weak point on AT&T TV. Crazy to me that you still can't extend/pad your recording times. And is there still no single screen that lists all series recordings where you can then delete or edit them?


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Nope, if you check out that link someone there specifically addresses the point that AT&T TV Now customers only ever got a 2-minute live TV pause buffer (regardless of whether they use the AT&T box or not) while AT&T TV customers get 90 minutes if they use the box. This is apparently a feature tied to the type of account you had, just like the amount of cloud DVR storage was.


I was originally an ATT TV subscriber but I don't remember if I ever tried to pause a live stream at all, so I can't refute your answer. I will say I never read about anyone that claimed the 90 minutes during that period of time.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> I was originally an ATT TV subscriber but I don't remember if I ever tried to pause a live stream at all, so I can't refute your answer. I will say I never read about anyone that claimed the 90 minutes during that period of time.


I recall seeing "90 minutes" from a few different sources over the past year since AT&T TV launched. Here's one from 10 months ago where someone asked the question "How long are you able to pause and live rewind on att TV?" and the only response given (which received 4 upvotes) was "2 min buffer on ATT Tv Now. And 90 min buffer ATT TV."


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATTTv/comments/g3ewb5


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> I recall seeing "90 minutes" from a few different sources over the past year since AT&T TV launched. Here's one from 10 months ago where someone asked the question "How long are you able to pause and live rewind on att TV?" and the only response given (which received 4 upvotes) was "2 min buffer on ATT Tv Now. And 90 min buffer ATT TV."
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ATTTv/comments/g3ewb5


So you source is no more accurate than mine!  The only time I ever end up on Reddit is because of a google search.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> So you source is no more accurate than mine!  The only time I ever end up on Reddit is because of a google search.


You're one person I don't know. I've now quoted several people I don't know on reddit. They outnumber you. (And you've already admitted that you're unsure what the live TV buffer was back when you were under the AT&T TV brand before you switched to AT&T TV Now. The folks I've quoted on reddit seem pretty certain of their claims.)


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> You're one person I don't know. I've now quoted several people I don't know on reddit. They outnumber you. (And you've already admitted that you're unsure what the live TV buffer was back when you were under the AT&T TV brand before you switched to AT&T TV Now. The folks I've quoted on reddit seem pretty certain of their claims.)


People on Reddit are often very certain of what they post, and sometimes they are even right!  But I've also noticed that many are not as right as they think they are.

That said, my solution has always worked flawlessly. With the Osprey remote I have one-button recording, so I just hit that then I can pause to my heart's content!


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Off to a roaring start - there's one inch or so of snow on the ground, so of course I get a "Due to a weather concern in your area, we are unable to deliver your AT&T order..." e-mail. God forbid a delivery man has to go out in the winter in Chicago! 

I'm calling a local store to see if I can pick my stuff up there instead.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

lhvetinari said:


> Off to a roaring start - there's one inch or so of snow on the ground, so of course I get a "Due to a weather concern in your area, we are unable to deliver your AT&T order..." e-mail. God forbid a delivery man has to go out in the winter in Chicago!
> 
> I'm calling a local store to see if I can pick my stuff up there instead.


Which of the usual 'fulfilment' vendors weren't wanting to venture out today? Usually a request similar to yours wouldn't be fulfilled locally. Good luck!


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

WVZR1 said:


> Which of the usual 'fulfilment' vendors weren't wanting to venture out today? Usually a request similar to yours wouldn't be fulfilled locally. Good luck!


Not sure, the website to reschedule said "powered by Enjoy" but I don't know if that's an actual delivery service or if they're like Uber-style contractors.

Anyway, the store was the way to go - went in, got 4 boxes, am now home. Only downside is I'll have to reconfigure my series recordings because they had to make a new account


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

lhvetinari said:


> Not sure, the website to reschedule said "powered by Enjoy" but I don't know if that's an actual delivery service or if they're like Uber-style contractors.
> 
> Anyway, the store was the way to go - went in, got 4 boxes, am now home. Only downside is I'll have to reconfigure my series recordings because they had to make a new account


So now there's a return to deal with?


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

WVZR1 said:


> So now there's a return to deal with?


Well, a cancellation. I haven't taken delivery of the online ordered hardware - guy said I should call in and cancel, and I'd get refunded the sales tax.

So far the new system seems to be working quite well. Picture quality is ace - far better than the crap I got with Comcast. Total bill roughly 110 per month - will go up a bit after the first year (guy in store signed me up for the contract plan - but he also gave me a year of Cinemax, Epix and Showtime for the trouble of the cancelled order) - so I guess it's a wash at the end of the two year term. Besides, like I said, I'm less worried about monthly cost - I'd rather pay for quality.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

lhvetinari said:


> So far the new system seems to be working quite well. Picture quality is ace - far better than the crap I got with Comcast.


Congrats. Would you mind doing a test of the live buffer? Just tune to a channel and pause for about 90 minutes, then resume. Let us know if resume jumps forward to live or if it actually resumes where you paused it and gives you a full 90 minute buffer where you can ffwd/rew at will.

There are mixed reports about the buffer. Some claim that while you can pause for 90 minutes, the buffer is actually only about 2 minutes. Others claim the buffer really is 90 minutes. Back when I had the service, I could pause for 90 minutes, but the buffer was only 2 minutes. It would be nice to know if this has changed.

Thanks in advance.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

mdavej said:


> Congrats. Would you mind doing a test of the live buffer? Just tune to a channel and pause for about 90 minutes, then resume. Let us know if resume jumps forward to live or if it actually resumes where you paused it and gives you a full 90 minute buffer where you can ffwd/rew at will.
> 
> There are mixed reports about the buffer. Some claim that while you can pause for 90 minutes, the buffer is actually only about 2 minutes. Others claim the buffer really is 90 minutes. Back when I had the service, I could pause for 90 minutes, but the buffer was only 2 minutes. It would be nice to know if this has changed.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I can do a full 90 minute test later, but I know it works for at least 10 minutes, as I left it paused that long on my frontroom TV yesterday when I let the dog out and checked the laundry.

Only issue is that so far, both my masterbed and frontroom boxes have crashed out once during the transition from the weird AT&T advertising screensaver to the real Google screensaver. I chalked that up to the usual Android stretching-it's-legs during the first few days of active use.

This crash causes the AT&T TV app to reload, losing your buffer (and dumping out to Live TV if you were on a recording)


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

How 'impressed' is Father?


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

WVZR1 said:


> How 'impressed' is Father?


He prefers the remote compared to the XR15 (which isn't a high bar, though). He also likes the better PQ, and fewer cables in his room (his box is wireless to a new AP in my bedroom, I threw that in there when I was tearing out all the X1 stuff.)


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Only one minor issue so far: the password.
I attempted to sign in to my new account with the temporary credentials given by the in-store rep - it worked but made me set a new password. No password I tried worked. It kept failing - mostly giving me useless "Failed to set password - system password" warnings. Eventually, I got a useful error "User ID, phone number or name cannot be in password". Turns out, since my e-mail is [email protected], the letter "a" is considered my User ID - which means I cannot use any password that contains the letter "A" in it. Oy.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

lhvetinari said:


> This crash causes the AT&T TV app to reload, losing your buffer (and dumping out to Live TV if you were on a recording)


Crashes on the Osprey box are not at all uncommon I've found. Oft times just exiting another app on the box causes it. I've not had mine crash from that idiot ad yet though.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lhvetinari said:


> Only issue is that so far, both my masterbed and frontroom boxes have crashed out once during the transition from the weird AT&T advertising screensaver to the real Google screensaver. I chalked that up to the usual Android stretching-it's-legs during the first few days of active use.
> 
> This crash causes the AT&T TV app to reload, losing your buffer (and dumping out to Live TV if you were on a recording)


Can you go into the box's Android TV settings menu and increase the amount of time until the Google screen saver kicks in? If you could set it at, say, 60 minutes, then you'd probably rarely trigger a crash.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Can you go into the box's Android TV settings menu and increase the amount of time until the Google screen saver kicks in? If you could set it at, say, 60 minutes, then you'd probably rarely trigger a crash.


Doesn't seem to be any way to set the delay before it does the screen saver, just on or off.

The good with the Osprey is that after it has been in use for awhile, it gets a bit speedier until the next time you do a restart/reset. Right after either of those it can be a real pig!


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

```
https://thestreamable.com/news/att-tv-adds-unlimited-dvr-and-in-home-streaming-for-contract-plans-add-on-for-no-contract-customers
```
The forum software would not let me insert that as a link for some reason. Kept getting converted to media.


----------



## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

ncted said:


> ```
> https://thestreamable.com/news/att-tv-adds-unlimited-dvr-and-in-home-streaming-for-contract-plans-add-on-for-no-contract-customers
> ```
> The forum software would not let me insert that as a link for some reason. Kept getting converted to media.


Ace, that takes care of one of my major complaints (3 in-home limit).

Other than that, 1.5 weeks in, I'm happy. PQ is great. Only one day had weird buffering problems, and that was only on one channel. Switching channels up and back down again seemed to fix it (pulled a fresh stream from a different server, maybe?)

Only two things still outstanding on my "complaint" list - no remote finder (would be nice), and astonishing lack of fine-grained recording control (let me only keep one of a show, please - I don't care about saving last night's news) - but I think the second issue may be moot with "unlimited" DVR - if I don't have to save space, I can just let the news shows back up until they hit the 90 day expiration.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Today my Osprey boxes got an update dated Feb 4. The results are real speed improvements. Nothing else spotted.

DVR - Nice to see the unlimited DVR space. Not sure if my grandfathered ATT TV Now Max will get it later this month though as the articles are not clear on that. For me, the 500 hours I have is more than enough.

DVR - management of scheduled recordings is a mess until you figure out how, and then it is just a little less of a mess.

Profiles - This is the one big feature that I think is missing. And no indication that ATT is considering it.


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## lhvetinari (Jun 24, 2019)

Anybody else having trouble with info boxes for recordings? Loads fine for live, shows this for recorded stuff. On all boxes. Reboot didn't help.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I don’t get that, info works as it is supposed to for me on recordings and live.

But yesterday I noticed that all my ‘upcoming recordings’ were missing. Checked some individual shows I knew were scheduled and they still showed they would record. Then later last night it all cleared up and things were fine.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

AT&T increasing prices for legacy DirecTV Now and AT&T TV Now plans by $10 per month - 9to5Mac


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