# Netflix "Watch Instantly" coming to TivoHD & Series3



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

_Credit to Engadget for this find..._



> ALVISO, Calif. and LOS GATOS, Calif., October 30, 2008 - TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs) and Netflix, Inc. (NASDAQ: NFLX), the world's largest online movie rental service, today announced that they are teaming up to provide Netflix and TiVo® Series3, TiVo HD, and TiVo HD XL subscribers with the ability to have thousands of movies and TV episodes instantly streamed from Netflix directly to their TVs.
> 
> The two companies said they are initiating a test of the new capability today in several thousand U.S. households and expect it to be broadly available in early December, in time for the holidays. The ability to instantly watch content from Netflix on the TV via TiVo DVRs will be offered at no additional charge to customers who subscribe to both services.
> 
> ...


Update from Cnet:


> ...Netflix had a little surprise in store for us today. In addition to its catalog of over 12,000 titles that will be available for near-DVD quality streaming, Netflix will stream 300 titles in HD...





> Netflix is calling this a "soft launch" since it is only rolling out such a small number of videos for HD streaming. The move mostly serves to stake a claim in the HD streaming market as opposed to being a full offering. Contrary to what others are reporting, HD streaming will be available on all streaming devices when it premieres with the New Xbox Experience. That means that the Roku, LG, and Samsung boxes will all be able to stream these HD movies, in addition to the Xbox 360. The PC and Mac based versions of Netflix, will not, however, be able to stream HD immediately. In addition, streaming in HD will require a large amount of bandwidth. Netflix estimates the requirement being in the 8-10 Mbps range.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

Awesome, So happy I go my self an HD Tivo.

Oh, and it looks like the www.tivo.com/netflix link is not up yet.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

That is SOOOO cool...

Now I can watch my Netflix instantly on 3 devices in my household...

My TiVo S3/HD (Bedroom/Living room)

My Xbox 360 (Coming before Christmas as well, but currently available using PlayNow.com)

And my Samsung BluRay Bd-p 2550 player. (Yes, it has the capability to do Netflix!)

TGC

P.S. Samsung has two blu-ray players capable of doing Netflix. Bd-p 2550 and Bd-p2500. LG also has a unit capable of doing Netflix, & So will Sony once they do a firmware update to their unit. (Only the Sony Blu-ray players with BD Live capability)

Xbox 360 will have it when they do their fall update. However, if you download "PLAY NOW" software from playnow.com you can get netflix, Hulu and other shows directly on your Xbox 360 as well. Play now will also work with PS/3's


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## bmoura (Oct 20, 2002)

Very cool indeed !

It will definitely be Christmas time this December with this software enhancement from Tivo.


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

That is awesome. They also just announced that HD streaming was coming to all devices by the end of this year. I was just thinking of buying a roku box. saved me some money.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

It's about time!!!

*This is 4 years in the making!!!*

http://netflix.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=38

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2004/09/08/BUGDH8L53A1.DTL

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2004/09/65166

Netflix and TiVo Announce a Joint Development Agreement
Netflix (NASDAQ: NFLX) and TiVo (NASDAQ: TIVO) have signed an agreement to work together to develop a joint entertainment offering. Under the terms of the agreement, the two companies will develop technology and will work with Hollywood studios to secure content for digital distribution.

As a result of the new agreement and in an effort to avoid any potential conflicts of interest that might develop, Mike Ramsay, chief executive officer of TiVo, submitted his resignation from the Netflix Board of Directors, effective September 29, 2004.

About Netflix

Netflix is the world's largest online movie rental service, providing more than two million subscribers access to over 25,000 DVD titles. For $21.99 a month, Netflix subscribers rent as many DVDs as they want, and keep them as long as they want, with three movies out at a time. There are no due dates, no late fees and no shipping fees. DVDs are delivered for free by first-class mail from regional shipping centers located throughout the United States. Netflix can reach more than 85 percent of its subscribers with generally one business-day delivery. The company provides subscribers extensive information about DVD movies, including critic reviews, member reviews, online trailers, ratings, and personalized movie recommendations. For more information, visit www.netflix.com.

About TiVo Inc.

Founded in 1997, TiVo, a pioneer in home entertainment, created a brand new category of products with the development of the first digital video recorder (DVR). Today, the Company continues to revolutionize the way consumers watch and access home entertainment by making TiVo the focal point of the digital living room, a center for sharing and experiencing television, music, photos and other content. TiVo connects consumers to the digital entertainment they want, where and when they want it. The Company is based in Alviso, Calif.

Forward-Looking Statements

This press release contains certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws, including statements regarding the development of technology and obtaining of content rights for digital distribution. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and events to differ, including, without limitation; the risk that the development of the technology may not meet technical requirements, consumer expectations, or otherwise be implemented by the parties; or that studios will not grant either of the parties digital delivery rights or otherwise impose limitations on such rights that might impede implementation.. A detailed discussion of these and other risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and events to differ materially from such forward-looking statements is included in our Annual Report on Form 10-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on February 27, 2004. We undertake no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances occurring after the date of this press release.

SOURCE: Netflix


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

*HD NETFLIX Coming SOON!*

First to Xbox 360... then in December to all other Netflix boxes (TiVo, Blu-ray)

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/29/hd-netflix-streaming-comes-to-xbox-360-first/

TGC

P.S. HDMI connections will be required for resolutions over 720p (As per Netflix)


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## nsk (Jul 29, 2007)

Just gave up last month waiting for TiVo and got myself a Roku Player... However, I am happy that we finally have this deal! Have been waiting for this for years...


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> P.S. HDMI connections will be required for resolutions over 720p (As per Netflix)


Does that include connections between a computer and a monitor?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

aindik said:


> Does that include connections between a computer and a monitor?


No, only if you try and output to a TV.

A friend of mine at work streams Netflix to his computer and when he tries to output it to his TV using component it disables output (his TV doesn't support 720p, only 1080i). It plays back fine on his monitor.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

aindik said:


> Does that include connections between a computer and a monitor?


Unknown... According to my contact at Netflix all HD Movies/TV shows will require HDMI for viewing above 720p. He isn't for sure about those that are still viewed strictly on a computer or HTPC

TGC

*HOWEVER*.... the *SlingCatcher* is *CAPABLE* of doing HD. The SlingCatcher/Projector will work with CURRENT Netflix Streaming. It is unknown yet if it will continue to work if it streams HD content to your computer.


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## bbowen (Dec 4, 2007)

So, satellite users are screwed since we can't use Tivo HD and Series 3 are made anymore (not sure if satellite could use them anyways.)


I stream Netflix from my computer to my HDTV just fine, so they don't disable anything.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Well just keep in mind... that you still have other options to STREAM netflix... and even HD netflix...

Here are the four (4) other ways to do Netflix streaming other than a computer and/or Tivo.


1. Netflix Roku box

2. XBox 360

3. BD Live compatible blu-ray player such as the LG or Samsung, & soon to be Sony.
(Firmware update is required)

4. Xbox 360 &/or PS/3 using "PLAY NOW" software from playnow.com

TGC


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

nsk said:


> Just gave up last month waiting for TiVo and got myself a Roku Player... However, I am happy that we finally have this deal! Have been waiting for this for years...


FYI, I believe the Roku boxes still have good re-sale value on EBay (is there still a wait to get one from Roku?), so I would imagine that you should be able to recoup 80-90% of your outlay should you not want to keep your Roku (i.e. if you have a S3 with Lifetime Service).


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *HD NETFLIX Coming SOON!*
> 
> First to Xbox 360... then in December to all other Netflix boxes (TiVo, Blu-ray)
> 
> ...


As long as you can get 720p over component video, I will be happy. I think it is kind of pointless to try to stream anything of a resolution higher than 720p, anyways.


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## nemein (Jul 3, 2008)

TexasGrillChef said:


> 4. Xbox 360 &/or PS/3 using "PLAY NOW" software from playnow.com


What is this? When I pull up playnow.com it's some sort of Canadian lottery website...

EDIT: Is this what people are talking about? playon http://www.themediamall.com/playon

Overall this is very sweet news. I heard it on the radio when I first woke up this morning, and thought I might still be dreaming


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

How large is a streamed HD movie? What will it do to the new Comcast caps?


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

EDIT: Is this what people are talking about? playon http://www.themediamall.com/playon

Yes, that's it. I have been using it to stream to my PS3. Works like a charm and I was utterly impressed with the acceptable PQ. I was about to purchase the software when this Netflix-Tivo parterschip came along. A dream come true! (I do feel bad now for themediamall as I fear they will be loosing a significant portion of their market potential). Another note on PlayOn: it doesn't play nice with several antivirus packages (Avast!, ESET...). It does play nice with several others (AVG, AVIRA..) however


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## gear (Oct 1, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> How large is a streamed HD movie? What will it do to the new Comcast caps?


But in Comcasts' letter informing their customers about the download cap, Comcast took great pains to reassure us that we needn't worry about exceeding the cap, that it was in fact highly unlikely. Are you suggesting that Comcast was being disingenuous?


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## JimPa (Oct 25, 2006)

Excuse me, but where does it say that the NetFlix service will be HD?


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## gear (Oct 1, 2006)

JimPa said:


> Excuse me, but where does it say that the NetFlix service will be HD?


Netflix will begin a limited (300 users) test of HD downloads for XBOX live subscribers.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> How large is a streamed HD movie? What will it do to the new Comcast caps?


We don't know(this is the first time Netflix as done an HD stream), but SD TV shows and Movies are about 700MB to 1-1.5GB, So my guess is the HD stream will be 4GB and Up. So you could only download from 50-60(maybe even 25) movies before going over the cap.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

nsk said:


> Just gave up last month waiting for TiVo and got myself a Roku Player... However, I am happy that we finally have this deal! Have been waiting for this for years...


i got the roku a couple of months ago and I have the same feelings as you since now i can stream Netflix on two tivos and the xbox, but I just remembered that Roku opened the device for other services. So now I play the waiting game to see who else will utilize the Roku.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

morac said:


> No, only if you try and output to a TV.
> 
> A friend of mine at work streams Netflix to his computer and when he tries to output it to his TV using S-Video it disables output. It plays back fine on his monitor.


So, is my 47 inch LCD with a VGA input a "monitor" or a "TV"?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

JimPa said:


> Excuse me, but where does it say that the NetFlix service will be HD?


If it's not now, it eventually will be.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Just an FYI I did confirm yesterday TiVo's Netflix video is encoded as VC-1 and protected by Microsoft DRM. I'm actually surprised it took them this long given nearly everyone who is NOT Apple is using WMV/VC-1 and Microsoft DRM.

Regarding streaming HD _on the TiVo_, I just don't know... if my HD MRV speeds are any indication, it may not work out so well. Unless they go to large buffers or complete downloads. We shall see. I did ask about HD as well, but received no information one way or the other.

Re Aero 1, there's been continuing rumor/speculation that Hulu would also land on the Roku Netflix box. Not sure if that's collective wishful thinking, though, or based on fact.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *HD NETFLIX Coming SOON!*
> First to Xbox 360... then in December to all other Netflix boxes (TiVo, Blu-ray


Where did you see anything about December to TiVo?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

davezatz said:


> Just an FYI I did confirm yesterday TiVo's Netflix video is encoded as VC-1 and protected by Microsoft DRM. I'm actually surprised it took them this long given nearly everyone who is NOT Apple is using WMV/VC-1 and Microsoft DRM.
> 
> Regarding streaming HD _on the TiVo_, I just don't know... if my HD MRV speeds are any indication, it may not work out so well. Unless they go to large buffers or complete downloads. We shall see. I did ask about HD as well, but received no information one way or the other.


Microsoft uses 6.8Mbps for its 720p HD downloads in VC-1 format with DD5.1. Apple's iTunes offers lower quality HD downloads at ~4Mbps.

According to Cnet, Netflix will use something between 8Mbps and 10Mbps. I will be very pleased if they can match or exceed the quality of Microsoft's 6.8Mbps downloads. The TivoHD should not have any problem with that.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Where did you see anything about December to TiVo?


Cnet has updated their article with new information, stating that Netflix HD will be available on all Netflix streaming devices next month.


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## crawform (Mar 16, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> Cnet has updated their article with new information, stating that Netflix HD will be available on all Netflix streaming devices next month.


Unfortunately, the article doesn't actually say tivo. It says: "Netflix is calling this a "soft launch" since it is only rolling out such a small number of videos for HD streaming. The move mostly serves to stake a claim in the HD streaming market as opposed to being a full offering. Contrary to what others are reporting, HD streaming will be available on all streaming devices when it premieres with the New Xbox Experience. *That means that the Roku, LG, and Samsung boxes will all be able to stream these HD movies, in addition to the Xbox 360*. The PC and Mac based versions of Netflix, will not, however, be able to stream HD immediately."


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## c293716 (May 16, 2004)

So this is for s3's only??? That really sucks.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

c293716 said:


> So this is for s3's only??? That really sucks.


It will be available on TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and TiVo Series3 boxes.

The TiVo Series2 hardware cannot support the format used by Netflix.


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## BigInJapan (Aug 10, 2008)

Has anyone heard whether there'll be a bundled TiVo / Netflix subscription, or will those of us who are not currently Netflix subscribers have to sign up with them separately?


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## dbtom (Feb 14, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Just an FYI I did confirm yesterday TiVo's Netflix video is encoded as VC-1 and protected by Microsoft DRM. I'm actually surprised it took them this long given nearly everyone who is NOT Apple is using WMV/VC-1 and Microsoft DRM.


I hope this means that someday we will be able to natively stream WMV files to Tivo. I haven't been able to get this to work reliably with the work arounds. I'm sure this is not a very popular request, but I've got all my movies encoded as WMV to work in Media Center.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

What's the cap on the number of devices you can have attached to one account?


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

Test said:


> What's the cap on the number of devices you can have attached to one account?


Members with a Netflix plan that includes unlimited instant watching may associate up to 4 unique devices with an account during a twelve month period.

http://www.netflix.com/NetflixReadyDevices


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Microsoft uses 6.8Mbps for its 720p HD downloads in VC-1 format with DD5.1. Apple's iTunes offers lower quality HD downloads at ~4Mbps.
> 
> According to Cnet, Netflix will use something between 8Mbps and 10Mbps. I will be very pleased if they can match or exceed the quality of Microsoft's 6.8Mbps downloads. The TivoHD should not have any problem with that.


These are streams, though, not downloads. Most people don't yet have internet connections that can keep up with 8 Mbps.


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## eric_n_dfw (Jul 15, 2003)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Unknown... According to my contact at Netflix all HD Movies/TV shows will require HDMI for viewing above 720p. He isn't for sure about those that are still viewed strictly on a computer or HTPC
> .


That sucks for me - I have an older older CRT HDTV that does 480p or 1080i on component but not 720p. I wonder if the Tivo will upconvert 720p to 1080i for me like it does OTA 720p today? Or if 1080i/p NetFlix content will be restricted or down-rez'ed somehow.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Enrique said:


> We don't know(this is the first time Netflix as done an HD stream), but SD TV shows and Movies are about 700MB to 1-1.5GB, So my guess is the HD stream will be 4GB and Up. So you could only download from 50-60(maybe even 25) movies before going over the cap.


 Those are more like mpeg2 sizes. For WMV/VC-1 you can at least cut those in half or perhaps one third depending on encoding quality.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

aindik said:


> These are streams, though, not downloads. Most people don't yet have internet connections that can keep up with 8 Mbps.


 For Tivos currently when you "stream" there is a buffer that builds up on the Tivo while the video downloads. If you pause the buffer continues to build. This is the case for YouTube streaming as well as streaming from HME. Hence why I use "stream" in quotes, because it's more like buffered downloading than streaming. The 1 big difference from TTCB is there is no entry placed in NPL.
I would imagine Netflix streaming will work the same way. Thus if you do have slower internet connections hopefully you can just initiate the stream and wait a few minutes for buffer to build and then start watching. It also sounds like the quality of the stream is throttled depending on your download speed, so you may be relegated to lower quality streams.


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## segadc (Nov 21, 2007)

Awesome now both my Tivo HD and Xbox 360 will have Netflix Watch Instantly on it.


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## segadc (Nov 21, 2007)

Enrique said:


> Members with a Netflix plan that includes unlimited instant watching may associate up to 4 unique devices with an account during a twelve month period.
> 
> http://www.netflix.com/NetflixReadyDevices


I thought it was 4 also until I found this...

http://www.netflix.com/FAQ?p_faqid=2902



> In addition, due to requirements from content providers, there's a limit to the number of unique devices each account can use to watch instantly. Each Netflix account may watch instantly on up to six unique authorized devices, including personal computers and Netflix ready devices.


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## Carlos_E (Mar 12, 2007)

This is cool. I now have 3 HD sources to rent from. AppleTV, PS3 and now Netflix HD on my Tivo S3. 

Cool. I just hope they all don't have the same movies. lol


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

On the PC, Netflix does a "test your bandwidth" thing to determine the quality of your stream. I wonder if TiVo's seemingly throttled download speeds will affect this.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> In addition, streaming in HD will require a large amount of bandwidth. Netflix estimates the requirement being in the 8-10 Mbps range.


Doesn't that rule out a LOT of people?

This sounds great, but I already have a lot of monthly fees, and I don't watch that many movies. I wish Amazon would just get HD going instead, I prefer to rent every once in a while.


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

I am glad to see this service. I probably won't subscribe to it for the time being because only about 20&#37; of Netflix's DVD library is availible for download. Blockbuster's mail order service with the store returns/pickup is a better deal for now at least for me.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

I have the Roku box and it is nice. HD + tivo will be even better


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

So where does this leave me with the Vudu box I just bought a couple of days ago? I was planning on canceling my Netflix subscription, but maybe I would be better off just returning the Vudu considering the fact that I already own 3 HD Tivos. I guess my main concern is how good the quality will be when they finally go HD. I have to say, I am pretty darn impressed with Vudu's new HDX format. It may not be Blu-ray, but it's pretty darn close to my eyes on my 60" Kuro. The only negative about the HDX titles is that you have to wait a couple of hours before you can start watching them. What would you guys do if you were in my situation?


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## dalesd (Aug 2, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> In addition, streaming in HD will require a large amount of bandwidth. Netflix estimates the requirement being in the 8-10 Mbps range.


I'm glad I splurged for 20/5 when I got Verizon Fios. 

Now that Netflix is charging extra for Blu-ray, I have pushed all my standard DVD rentals to the bottom of my queue. With streaming to the TiVo, maybe I'll actually watch them. I've never used the Watch Instantly before.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

davezatz said:


> Just an FYI I did confirm yesterday TiVo's Netflix video is encoded as VC-1 and protected by Microsoft DRM. I'm actually surprised it took them this long given nearly everyone who is NOT Apple is using WMV/VC-1 and Microsoft DRM.


I know that the Series 3 models support VC-1, but I didn't know they could support Microsoft DRM. Or are they using a different DRM for TiVo?


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

nemein said:


> What is this? When I pull up playnow.com it's some sort of Canadian lottery website...
> 
> EDIT: Is this what people are talking about? playon http://www.themediamall.com/playon
> 
> Overall this is very sweet news. I heard it on the radio when I first woke up this morning, and thought I might still be dreaming


Yes, Thank you. Sorry for the inconvience... DUH!

So you have corrected my mistake... THANK YOU!

I get a little lesdixic sometimes. 

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> How large is a streamed HD movie? What will it do to the new Comcast caps?


Oh if you have a comcast cap.... you will be hurtin! If you watch more than about 2 or 3 movies a month.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

mvnuenen said:


> EDIT: Is this what people are talking about? playon http://www.themediamall.com/playon
> 
> Yes, that's it. I have been using it to stream to my PS3. Works like a charm and I was utterly impressed with the acceptable PQ. I was about to purchase the software when this Netflix-Tivo parterschip came along. A dream come true! (I do feel bad now for themediamall as I fear they will be loosing a significant portion of their market potential). Another note on PlayOn: it doesn't play nice with several antivirus packages (Avast!, ESET...). It does play nice with several others (AVG, AVIRA..) however


*It also plays from HULU!*

I really like that feature as to when for whatever stupid reason. The show gets blocked by the local affiliate, or some other stupid reason the broadcast gets messed up. Such as weather, or a sporting event, etc...

Hulu allows me to watch about 90% of the shows I care about. With this software & my XBox 360 I can easily watch HULU on my TV! I love it!

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

JimPa said:


> Excuse me, but where does it say that the NetFlix service will be HD?


http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/29...box-360-first/

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Where did you see anything about December to TiVo?


My secret contact at Netflix.

Netflix is coming to TiVo in the Fall 2008 (December) release.

Netflix is comeing to XBox in November, with HD coming to the Xbox at the same time.

TGC


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

It seems to me that in order for HD streaming to have a chance to work, they'll have to compromise on the bandwidth. If that's the case, I think I'd rather see them offer a download non-streaming service at higher quality - meaning the download may take longer than real time. You just queue it up before you go to bed or in the morning or before dinner, and it's ready for you to watch in the evening.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

c293716 said:


> So this is for s3's only??? That really sucks.


S3's, HD, & HD-XL

Series 1 & 2 and DirecTV TiVo's NO

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Test said:


> What's the cap on the number of devices you can have attached to one account?


Currently there is *NO * Cap on the number of Netflix box's you can use. In any combination.

*HOWEVER... only one box can STREAM from netflix at one time.*

Only one stream at a time... doesn't matter which box you use.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

eric_n_dfw said:


> That sucks for me - I have an older older CRT HDTV that does 480p or 1080i on component but not 720p. I wonder if the Tivo will upconvert 720p to 1080i for me like it does OTA 720p today? Or if 1080i/p NetFlix content will be restricted or down-rez'ed somehow.


ASSUMPTION:

IF you have your TiVo on "FIXED 1080i" I am going to ASSUME that it will upconvert.

HOWEVER... I could be wrong. HDMI might still be required.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

moyekj said:


> For Tivos currently when you "stream" there is a buffer that builds up on the Tivo while the video downloads. If you pause the buffer continues to build. This is the case for YouTube streaming as well as streaming from HME. Hence why I use "stream" in quotes, because it's more like buffered downloading than streaming. The 1 big difference from TTCB is there is no entry placed in NPL.
> I would imagine Netflix streaming will work the same way. Thus if you do have slower internet connections hopefully you can just initiate the stream and wait a few minutes for buffer to build and then start watching. It also sounds like the quality of the stream is throttled depending on your download speed, so you may be relegated to lower quality streams.


Computer wise as well as with the Roku box & the LG/Samsung Blu-Ray players... Netflix runs a "*Speed Test*" then adjusts Bitrate & quality to maintain a steady stream. There is 1gb buffer in the Blu-ray machines and 512mb buffer used in your computer & Roku box. I do not know if the TiVo will run a speed test or not.

So the *FASTER* your internet connection is the *BETTER* your PQ will be.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

gweempose said:


> So where does this leave me with the Vudu box I just bought a couple of days ago? I was planning on canceling my Netflix subscription, but maybe I would be better off just returning the Vudu considering the fact that I already own 3 HD Tivos. I guess my main concern is how good the quality will be when they finally go HD. I have to say, I am pretty darn impressed with Vudu's new HDX format. It may not be Blu-ray, but it's pretty darn close to my eyes on my 60" Kuro. The only negative about the HDX titles is that you have to wait a couple of hours before you can start watching them. What would you guys do if you were in my situation?


Vudu currently still has one of the largest HD Movie offerings than any other box. Except for the Apple TV.

It will take a while for all other services including Netflix and Amazon to catch up.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

morac said:


> I know that the Series 3 models support VC-1, but I didn't know they could support Microsoft DRM. Or are they using a different DRM for TiVo?


Fall update will alow for Microsoft DRM

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

bdlucas said:


> It seems to me that in order for HD streaming to have a chance to work, they'll have to compromise on the bandwidth. If that's the case, I think I'd rather see them offer a download non-streaming service at higher quality - meaning the download may take longer than real time. You just queue it up before you go to bed or in the morning or before dinner, and it's ready for you to watch in the evening.


Thats how VuDu's HD-XL works.

I doubt Netflix will use the same thing. Netflix is pretty "Automatic".

If you have a good internet connection.. it will use it and give you the best quality. If you don't... then your just screwed.

TGC


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Oh if you have a comcast cap.... you will be hurtin! If you watch more than about 2 or 3 movies a month.


Not even close... My Comcast cap is 250GB. If a typical 2 hour Xbox or Vudu HD movie runs 6GB, you've got to watch a whole heck of a lot to get close.


----------



## sonysony (Sep 20, 2003)

Will closed captions be supported. Iknow Amazon Unbox does not.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

davezatz said:


> Not even close... My Comcast cap is 250GB. If a typical 2 hour Xbox or Vudu HD movie runs 6GB, you've got to watch a whole heck of a lot to get close.


My bad... sorry.. I thought I had heard they were capping at 25 to 50gb. If your cap is 250gb then you should be able to get at least 30 to 35 hours worth of HD streaming. (At a 6gb/hr average)

TGC


----------



## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Will the quality be closer to Fox HD or Blue Ray?

Any chance of 1080p?

In the end the best quality is always left standing.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Doesn't that rule out a LOT of people?
> 
> This sounds great, but I already have a lot of monthly fees, and I don't watch that many movies. I wish Amazon would just get HD going instead, I prefer to rent every once in a while.


Ditto. I am basically in the same boat. Though your SOL if you get home from work and your family says "Let's rent/watch a movie" and all you have is a 3mb connection..........


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## rwhitling (Oct 22, 2008)

really dumb question

I am kinda new to the whole Tivo thing.

Is my 20 hour HD tivo technically a series 3 tivo?


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## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

Anyone know if the HD streaming will require the $1/month bluray surcharge? IIRC, currently netflix charges an extra dollar per month if you want bluray. Will that apply to the streams too? Just curious.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

this thread is why I am happy with most movies in SD quality for now - 
just a few movies are something I would want in HD and with netflix i will just put the movie in my DVD/Blu Ray queue

otherwise I stream away on SD quality and it is as good as any broadcast digital SD stuff


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## DrewS3 (Sep 19, 2008)

I have had problems with playing Netflix movies on my PC because of bandwidth issues between my cable modem ISP and Netflix. Online speed tests show my connection as being very fast but the Netflix movies will be very low quality and spend 20 minutes buffering before playing the next 10 minutes of the movie.

I have had this happen a few times on Friday or Saturday nights. I can watch the same movie in the morning and it plays great.

Hopefully the Tivo version of the player will buffer the whole movie so this won't be a problem.


----------



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

TexasGrillChef said:


> ASSUMPTION:
> 
> IF you have your TiVo on "FIXED 1080i" I am going to ASSUME that it will upconvert.
> 
> ...


Assuming the rules are the same as the XBox 360 then you should be fine unless this is a bug


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

rwhitling said:


> really dumb question
> 
> I am kinda new to the whole Tivo thing.
> 
> Is my 20 hour HD tivo technically a series 3 tivo?


Yes.

All three of the following, in order of release from earliest to latest are considered Series 3 machines:

TiVo Series 3, TiVo HD, TiVo HDXL

And btw, do yourself a favor and either upgrade that internal drive or pop on DVR Expander.......


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## ffujita (Dec 14, 2001)

I don't know if captions will be included on the TiVo, but it doesn't come on the Roku Box. I usually need captions so I can listen to the TV at a volume that doesn't disturb the rest of the house.


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Joe3 said:


> Will the quality be closer to Fox HD or Blue Ray?
> 
> Any chance of 1080p?
> 
> In the end the best quality is always left standing.


No 1080p currently because the TiVo isn't currently capable. As far as being close to blu-ray. Not even close...

Why won't it be close to blu-ray? Becaue the TiVo is *NOT* capable of doing 6.1 or 7.1 surround sound. It is also *NOT* capable of doing "Master Audio" known as either DD-HD (Dolby Digital) or DTS-HD.

The other thing is Bitrate. Currently blu-ray disks and players put out a bitrate of between 20mbps and up to 50mbps. Check your blu-ray disk. Incredible Hulk is a 30mbps blu-ray. Very few people have internet connections that could maintain 20-50mbps bit rate speeds.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

rwhitling said:


> really dumb question
> 
> I am kinda new to the whole Tivo thing.
> 
> Is my 20 hour HD tivo technically a series 3 tivo?


Yes, & Yes it will do Netflix and HD Netflix when available.

TGC


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Scyber said:


> Anyone know if the HD streaming will require the $1/month bluray surcharge? IIRC, currently netflix charges an extra dollar per month if you want bluray. Will that apply to the streams too? Just curious.


Well, that was such a good question I gave my freind a call at Netflix.

He said "*NO*" there "*WON'T*" be an extra charge for the HD steaming.

The reason he said for the extra $1 for blu-ray is because blu-ray disks cost more than SD DVD's. I then pointed out to him that Blu-ray disks are also 100 times more durable than DVD's & that Netflix in turn would also have to replace less Blu-ray disks for damage then they do DVD's. He said good point and will bring that up to higher management.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

DrewS3 said:


> I have had problems with playing Netflix movies on my PC because of bandwidth issues between my cable modem ISP and Netflix. Online speed tests show my connection as being very fast but the Netflix movies will be very low quality and spend 20 minutes buffering before playing the next 10 minutes of the movie.
> 
> I have had this happen a few times on Friday or Saturday nights. I can watch the same movie in the morning and it plays great.
> 
> Hopefully the Tivo version of the player will buffer the whole movie so this won't be a problem.


The Tivo might buffer more than the other Netflix boxes or your computer. blu-ray machines and the Roku box can only buffer 512mb to 1gb. Although the Xbox, computer and Tivo could buffer higher amounts if it used the local hard drive. Who knows if they will or not. We will have to see. My freind at Netflix does not know.

TGC


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

TexasGrillChef said:


> P.S. HDMI connections will be required for resolutions over 720p (As per Netflix)


You mean HDCP.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

I will likely switch from BB to Netflix for this.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> You mean HDCP.


There seems to be some debate on this point... Engadget did demonstrate Netflix HD over component today. Also 'over 720p' doesn't make sense to me. If they did require an HDCP handshake, I'd think anything over 480p (such as 720p) would be locked down.

I registered for the New Xbox Experience preview and made the cut, so I should receive it 'on or before Nov 1' and can also test it out.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> If you have a good internet connection.. it will use it and give you the best quality.


But it won't, I suspect. The videos will likely be sent at a compromised bitrate in order to make network congestion less of an issue, and having a good internet connection will do nothing to improve the quality.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bdlucas said:


> But it won't, I suspect. The videos will likely be sent at a compromised bitrate in order to make network congestion less of an issue, and having a good internet connection will do nothing to improve the quality.


Not to mention TiVo is quite cognizant of the primary purpose of the DVR - any processes that could impact television recording will be throttled. I could see HD downloads, but I'm still skeptical we'll see HD streaming. I'd be happy to be wrong on this. And if I'm not, my Xbox awaits.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> You mean HDCP.


Well currently HDCP signals don't do component and are only found in HDMI. DVI connections currently don't have HDCP signal capability either.

TGC


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## tgmii (Feb 21, 2002)

Any word of a priority list? I was shocked to see this happen.. (happily).

Now I can stop converting a linux box to windows to put behind the HD tivo to do Netflix! 

Tom


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

davezatz said:


> Not to mention TiVo is quite cognizant of the primary purpose of the DVR - any processes that could impact television recording will be throttled. I could see HD downloads, but I'm still skeptical we'll see HD streaming. I'd be happy to be wrong on this. And if I'm not, my Xbox awaits.


Hmm. That is only an issue if the actual streaming harms the *current* recording of any programming.

I don't think that Tivo should think that the primary purpose is to be a DVR. They should think that the primary purpose is to deliver video-based entertainment to the consumer.

I can see DirecTV or Dish seeing their DVR as being primarily (and maybe exclusively) a medium for their wares (their programming) but Tivo should not limit itself to any particular delivery mechanism as long as they can deliver on performance and reliability.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Well currently HDCP signals don't do component and are only found in HDMI. DVI connections currently don't have HDCP signal capability either.
> 
> TGC


Not at all true. HDCP existed over DVI long before HDMI even existed. My oldest HDTV (2004 Sony RP) has only a DVI connection and has HDCP over DVI.


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## hkancyr (Jan 20, 2002)

I've been streaming movies from netflix for a while, but it is not HD. I guess if they DL to the TiVo first then play it could be HD though. The video blogs that are on the TiVo are HD in some cases, because they don't stream they DL.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

TexasGrillChef said:


> No 1080p currently because the TiVo isn't currently capable. As far as being close to blu-ray. Not even close...


 I have found that Tivo *IS* capable of playing H.264 files @1080p/24 fps. I haven't tried 1080p/60 fps because it's hard to get hold of sample H.264 1080p/60 fps files.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

hkancyr said:


> I've been streaming movies from netflix for a while, but it is not HD. I guess if they DL to the TiVo first then play it could be HD though. The video blogs that are on the TiVo are HD in some cases, because they don't stream they DL.


Technically, nothing streams to the Tivo, it all downloads. It's just a question of:

1) Can you watch it while it's downloading
2) Can you keep it after it downloads
3) Does it download fast enough to watch it real-time

YouTube is downloading, not streaming. Just you can't keep it when it's done.

I'd imagine NetFlix will be the same.


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## erick0305 (Jul 7, 2008)

Doesn't You Tube stream? If it does can't netflix work in a similar manner? I currently have the Roku box and since I will have netflix on TIVO and Xbox now. I might as well get rid of it. If it doesn't stream I might as well just keep my Roku box.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> YouTube is downloading, not streaming. Just you can't keep it when it's done.


YouTube is the first app that TiVo ever created that can stream and display video (h.264 in this case) outside of the regular interface. It does not use the regular download interface. I always said that the YouTube application was done as a test for Amazon and Netflix streaming.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

They discussed this on Marketplace on NPR today: http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/10/30/netflix/

Bugs me that they say cable DVR boxes are free.

But this comment from a TiVo user makes no sense: "Sharon Fibelkorn: Currently if you want to get a movie through TiVo, I have to take out a phone cord, I have to stretch it across the living room, which just makes me crazy."

Huh? What does this have to do with Netflix on TiVo?


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

rainwater said:


> YouTube is the first app that TiVo ever created that can stream and display video (h.264 in this case) outside of the regular interface. It does not use the regular download interface. I always said that the YouTube application was done as a test for Amazon and Netflix streaming.


Can you rewind to the beginning? If you don't leave the video, does it just stay there?

It's downloaded. Not streamed. It's no different than any other on-demand download, it just doesn't persist when you leave it.

Tivo is 100% download. VOD is "streaming".


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BigInJapan said:


> Has anyone heard whether there'll be a bundled TiVo / Netflix subscription, or will those of us who are not currently Netflix subscribers have to sign up with them separately?


I have no idea, but the netflix subscriptions that allow streaming are ~$8.99/month and include DVDs (I think it's the one-at-a-time-unlimited or higher plans). Check netflix's site for more details.

What I haven't been able to figure out is -- how can I look for ONLY streamable stuff on netflix? I could swear there used to be a way to do it. But since I have a Mac and have no other devices that can stream it (until the tivo update), I hadn't looked too hard in the past.

(I already have a zillion Tivoed things I haven't watched, and had some of my Netflix DVDs sitting around for a verrrrry long time [I had watched others]... But I'm still happy about this new feature, since I already subscribe to both.)


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> You mean HDCP.


I was wondering about this. I'm one of those pesky pre-HDMI XBox 360 owners. In fact, right now, I am using the 360 VGA HD AV cable for my connection. So HDMI isn't really an option.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

MickeS said:


> They discussed this on Marketplace on NPR today: http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/10/30/netflix/


Nit pick: Marketplace is produced by American Public Media, not National Public Radio.

Where it gets confusing is that many (most?) of the stations that air Marketplace also air lots of content from National Public Radio.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Joe3 said:


> In the end the best quality is always left standing.


I wish this were true, but history has proven otherwise. Over the years, many superior formats have failed to catch on with a mass audience. Betamax, Laserdisc, DAT, SACD, DVD-Audio ... the list goes on and on.


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## RayChuang88 (Sep 5, 2002)

I'm sorry, but NetFlix's idea--like the HD video purchases though the _iTunes Music Store_ for the Apple TV unit--is going to be a non-starter in the USA if the data is streamed over the public Internet.

Comcast has stated their 250 GB/month download limit, and I expect most other ISP's to impose similar limits within a year or so to prevent overloading the current Internet infrastructure. (We may not see these limits lifted until commercials ISP's offer IPv6 addressing and far more bandwidth capacity is available several years from now.) This will essentially put a kibosh on the NetFlix system and buying HD videos online, sad to say.


----------



## Combat Medic (Sep 6, 2001)

RayChuang88 said:


> I'm sorry, but NetFlix's idea--like the HD video purchases though the _iTunes Music Store_ for the Apple TV unit--is going to be a non-starter in the USA if the data is streamed over the public Internet.
> 
> Comcast has stated their 250 GB/month download limit, and I expect most other ISP's to impose similar limits within a year or so to prevent overloading the current Internet infrastructure. (We may not see these limits lifted until commercials ISP's offer IPv6 addressing and far more bandwidth capacity is available several years from now.) This will essentially put a kibosh on the NetFlix system and buying HD videos online, sad to say.


IPv6 has nothing to do with the ISP upgrading their infrastructure like they should have. I move tens of gig per second in IPv4.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Can you rewind to the beginning? If you don't leave the video, does it just stay there?
> 
> It's downloaded. Not streamed. It's no different than any other on-demand download, it just doesn't persist when you leave it.
> 
> Tivo is 100% download. VOD is "streaming".


I think you misunderstand. Even the Roku box technically "downloads" the stream. It has a buffer that it can use to store parts of the stream. TiVo is doing the same thing with the YouTube app. Even the new XBox Netflix service is going to buffer parts of the stream to the hard drive. Streaming does not imply you can't use a buffer to store parts of the stream. That is inherently implied in any modern streaming technology. TiVo isn't using the user's space (where Now Playing List programs are stored) to save these streams. It is using a temporary buffer which is what Roku and XBox do. One would presume they will be doing the same for the Netflix app.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

moyekj said:


> I have found that Tivo *IS* capable of playing H.264 files @1080p/24 fps. I haven't tried 1080p/60 fps because it's hard to get hold of sample H.264 1080p/60 fps files.


It may "PLAY" the file.. but is it isn't output from the TiVo at 1080p. I have played the same files I have ripped from a Blu-ray disk. From the TiVo you can acutally hear the sound of DD-HD... but it isn't "REALLY" dd-hd your hearing. Still 5.1 not 6.1 or 7.1. Same thing I think is applying to the video. Still coming out the TiVo as 1080i. At least that is what my tv is reporting.

TGC


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

erick0305 said:


> Doesn't You Tube stream? If it does can't netflix work in a similar manner? I currently have the Roku box and since I will have netflix on TIVO and Xbox now. I might as well get rid of it. If it doesn't stream I might as well just keep my Roku box.


I think its all "Semantics".

Think about it... in the Roku box... it is just downloading to it's so called "Buffer" which in turn really is just the RAM of the unit.

On the XBox 360. It will use the RAM of the XBox to "Buffer" as well. Not actually use the hard drive of a 360 to store any info. (There will be a setting in the XBox control panel to allow you to use the Hard Drive as a buffer if you choose) Play on software uses a buffer on your computer not the Xbox or PS/3

Netflix on a computer will either use RAM or your hard drive to buffer. Depending on how much RAM you have installed.

How it work on the TiVo is anyones guess. One thing I would be willing to bet though. Is that the "*BUFFER*" on the tivo will *NOT* be holding the entire Netflix movie that your streaming/downloading. It will probably only hold about 15 to 30 min worth at a time. If that at all.

Personally... I classify streaming as anything that is coming down over a network to a device and is being displayed at about the same time. With or wtihout the use of a "Buffer" and is immediately discarded & *NOT* saved after viewing. Doesn't matter if the "Buffer" is RAM or Hard drive.

Downloading IMHO officially is anything that you can view at a later time.

1. Netflix movies coming to your TiVo will *NOT* be viewable at a later time.

2. The entire movie will *NOT* be saved on your TiVo as a complete whole movie file. Only a certain portion of the Movie will reside on your TiVo at anyone given time. Acting only as a "Buffer" to allow you to view without pauses. Probably the last 5 min of the movie & the next 15 to 30 min that you have yet to view. I have noticed that with my computer I can backup the movie about 3 to 5 min without it "pausing" to go re-grab that previous video.

Keep in mind that Blu-ray players with the Netflix capability as well as the ROKU box have *NO* hard drive & are using entirely the RAM built into the machine itself. In the case of Blu-ray players & Roku up to 1gb of RAM. Which gives a buffer on the Roku even HD at about 5 to 10 min. Longer if it's SD.

TGC


----------



## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> I think its all "Semantics".


No, it's not semantics. Downloads are downloads--you start at the beginning and store it as it comes, whether you allow playback while downloading or not. To see the middle of the clip, you have to wait until it's downloaded that much and to see the end you have to wait for the entire thing to download--you can't skip to it from the beginning. Streaming protocols include commands to start playing at any arbitrary point. While watching YouTube with YouTube's web player, you can slide the progress bar to the end at any time--immediately after you start playing a clip if you want--and a few seconds later you will see the end of the clip, without it downloading (or buffering) any of the intervening portion. (I just moved a few days ago and my TiVo's not connected to the net, so I can try its YouTube player--I played with it for 10 minutes when it first became available and haven't touched it since--yet another of the myriad networked TiVo "features" for which I have absolutely no use ).

Netflix's Watch Instantly web player works the same way--at any time you can drag the shuttle forward or backward to any point in the film that you're playing and it will advance to that point ASAP, with a brief pause to let it buffer some of the section of the clip that you want to skip to. The important feature of streaming which distinguishes it from "playback while downloading" is random access.

Real streaming players never store the entire clip (unless it's short enough to fit in their buffers) and their buffers, in memory or on HDD, disappear when you stop playing.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> No, it's not semantics. Downloads are downloads--you start at the beginning and store it as it comes, whether you allow playback while downloading or not. To see the middle of the clip, you have to wait until it's downloaded that much and to see the end you have to wait for the entire thing to download--you can't skip to it from the beginning. Streaming protocols include commands to start playing at any arbitrary point. While watching YouTube with YouTube's web player, you can slide the progress bar to the end at any time--immediately after you start playing a clip if you want--and a few seconds later you will see the end of the clip, without it downloading (or buffering) any of the intervening portion. (I just moved a few days ago and my TiVo's not connected to the net, so I can try its YouTube player--I played with it for 10 minutes when it first became available and haven't touched it since--yet another of the myriad networked TiVo "features" for which I have absolutely no use ).
> 
> Netflix's Watch Instantly web player works the same way--at any time you can drag the shuttle forward or backward to any point in the film that you're playing and it will advance to that point ASAP, with a brief pause to let it buffer some of the section of the clip that you want to skip to. The important feature of streaming which distinguishes it from "playback while downloading" is random access.
> 
> Real streaming players never store the entire clip (unless it's short enough to fit in their buffers) and their buffers, in memory or on HDD, disappear when you stop playing.


 Very well said. The distinction is very important. ReplayTVs did real streaming since you could randomly jump to anywhere in the stream (including ahead of the buffer). To date Tivo has not implemented streaming at all. YouTube and HME "streaming" are really buffered downloads. For the case of streaming from HME the buffer can be very large. I haven't tested how large and what the cutoff may be and if the buffer is circular in nature (so it it reaches the limit it starts removing from the start of the buffer). In any case I would bet that Netflix "streaming" will really be the same buffered download mechanism.

An advantage of downloading over streaming is your network connection doesn't have to be fast enough to keep up with real time playback, and we all know that the Series 3 Tivos are under performers when it comes to networking.


----------



## jayfest (Mar 25, 2003)

mattack said:


> What I haven't been able to figure out is -- how can I look for ONLY streamable stuff on netflix? I could swear there used to be a way to do it.


When you go to the Netflix site, one of the tabs on the top should be "Watch Instantly", right next to "Browse DVDs". That shows you the items available for streaming.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

rainwater said:


> I think you misunderstand. Even the Roku box technically "downloads" the stream. It has a buffer that it can use to store parts of the stream. TiVo is doing the same thing with the YouTube app. Even the new XBox Netflix service is going to buffer parts of the stream to the hard drive. Streaming does not imply you can't use a buffer to store parts of the stream. That is inherently implied in any modern streaming technology. TiVo isn't using the user's space (where Now Playing List programs are stored) to save these streams. It is using a temporary buffer which is what Roku and XBox do. One would presume they will be doing the same for the Netflix app.


How about this - if it downloads the whole thing, it's not streaming, it's downloading. If it just buffers a small part of it, it's streaming.

For YouTube, Tivo downloads the whole thing. That's downloading, not buffering.

I'm betting NetFlix will be the same.

And they will be using main space for this, not some secret special space.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

mikeyts said:


> No, it's not semantics. Downloads are downloads--you start at the beginning and store it as it comes, whether you allow playback while downloading or not. To see the middle of the clip, you have to wait until it's downloaded that much and to see the end you have to wait for the entire thing to download--you can't skip to it from the beginning. Streaming protocols include commands to start playing at any arbitrary point. While watching YouTube with YouTube's web player, you can slide the progress bar to the end at any time--immediately after you start playing a clip if you want--and a few seconds later you will see the end of the clip, without it downloading (or buffering) any of the intervening portion. (I just moved a few days ago and my TiVo's not connected to the net, so I can try its YouTube player--I played with it for 10 minutes when it first became available and haven't touched it since--yet another of the myriad networked TiVo "features" for which I have absolutely no use ).
> 
> Netflix's Watch Instantly web player works the same way--at any time you can drag the shuttle forward or backward to any point in the film that you're playing and it will advance to that point ASAP, with a brief pause to let it buffer some of the section of the clip that you want to skip to. The important feature of streaming which distinguishes it from "playback while downloading" is random access.
> 
> Real streaming players never store the entire clip (unless it's short enough to fit in their buffers) and their buffers, in memory or on HDD, disappear when you stop playing.


Yup. And Tivo's YouTube doesn't work this way. You have to wait for it to fully download to the point you want to see - you can't skip to the middle until that part has downloaded.

NetFlix on Tivo will likely work the same way.

Tivo downloads.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

It seems bizarre that TiVo could interface with YouTube without implementing whatever streaming protocol YouTube is using. As mentioned, I can't currently check it out for myself. If you're watching a long clip, can't you use skip-to-tick to quickly get to the end?


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## gear (Oct 1, 2006)

RayChuang88 said:


> I'm sorry, but NetFlix's idea--like the HD video purchases though the _iTunes Music Store_ for the Apple TV unit--is going to be a non-starter in the USA if the data is streamed over the public Internet.
> 
> Comcast has stated their 250 GB/month download limit, and I expect most other ISP's to impose similar limits within a year or so to prevent overloading the current Internet infrastructure. (We may not see these limits lifted until commercials ISP's offer IPv6 addressing and far more bandwidth capacity is available several years from now.) This will essentially put a kibosh on the NetFlix system and buying HD videos online, sad to say.


I don't think Comcast is worried about their infrastructure being overloaded, I think they want a piece of the pie. I bet they will come up with a cap pricing structure where you pay a fee for going over the cap. They tried to shove VOD down everyone's throat hoping it would catch on before movie downloads via the internet started but it just didn't catch on like they hoped. They wanted to be content providers and own the pipe too. Looks like they will just end up owning the pipe so they want to make sure they squeeze what they can out of that.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

MickeS said:


> They discussed this on Marketplace on NPR today: http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/10/30/netflix/
> 
> Bugs me that they say cable DVR boxes are free.
> 
> ...


WOW, there was an appalling lack of knowledge or insight in that piece. what has happened to public radio?


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

My head hurts.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

davezatz said:


> There seems to be some debate on this point... Engadget did demonstrate Netflix HD over component today. Also 'over 720p' doesn't make sense to me. If they did require an HDCP handshake, I'd think anything over 480p (such as 720p) would be locked down.


FYI I have the New Xbox Experience as of this AM. The Netflix app, my Xbox, and my HDTV all say it's HD... over component. I suppose the content could be downrezed, but I would expect the UI to indicate that.

I'm working on getting some pics and a video up.


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

davezatz said:


> FYI I have the New Xbox Experience as of this AM. The Netflix app, my Xbox, and my HDTV all say it's HD... over component. I suppose the content could be downrezed, but I would expect the UI to indicate that.
> 
> I'm working on getting some pics and a video up.


Dave, are you able to test it using the xbox VGA connection also?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Aero 1 said:


> Dave, are you able to test it using the xbox VGA connection also?


I can only test component and HDMI. It's reporting HD resolutions over component. There may be a requirement _over HDMI_ for a HDCP handshake, but as of now I'm streaming fine over component.

An Xbox video, some pics, and more thoughts here:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-10/the-new-xbox-experience-with-netflix/


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

there should not be any problem over VGA. VGA never had any problems with movie content of HD DVD titles at 1080P.


----------



## segadc (Nov 21, 2007)

Yeah you should be fine with VGA (I use it since my 360 does not have HDMI). DVI does have problems.

edit: Here is the site http://formatwarcentral.com/2008/10/30/hdcp-required-for-xbox-360-hd-netflix-streaming/


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> WOW, there was an appalling lack of knowledge or insight in that piece. what has happened to public radio?


Usually their reporting is better than that. This was embarrassingly incompetent. 
And yes, Marketplace is not really NPR, it just happens to be broadcast on the same station here and in may markets.


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> I'm betting NetFlix will be the same.


The API TiVo will be using should be the same one Xbox/Roku/etc are using. This allows you to jump to different portions of the stream without having to continue streaming from the beginning. AFAIK, TiVo can't change the Netflix API.


----------



## fatlard (Jun 30, 2003)

I also like to see the selection of the stream options. Does anyone have a list?


----------



## Leo Valiant (Apr 19, 2000)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Currently there is *NO * Cap on the number of Netflix box's you can use. In any combination.
> 
> *HOWEVER... only one box can STREAM from netflix at one time.*
> 
> ...


That differs from what the Roku folks have said and Netflix own Terms of Service.

"As an additional member benefit, you may instantly watch on up to six unique authorized devices, including personal computers and Netflix ready devices. For certain plans, you will be allowed to instantly watch simultaneously on more than one personal computer or through more than one Netflix ready device within your household, up to total of four devices at a given time."


----------



## dalesd (Aug 2, 2001)

TexasGrillChef said:


> *HOWEVER... only one box can STREAM from netflix at one time.*
> 
> Only one stream at a time... doesn't matter which box you use.
> 
> TGC


Whatever you do, don't cross the streams.
It would be bad.


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> NetFlix on Tivo will likely work the same way.
> 
> TiVo Downloads.


Actually it won't... Talked to my freind earlier today. By *Contract *with the *Movie studios* that provide the content to stream...

It must stream... by contract. *SO...*

*Only a portion of the movie you will be watching will be stored on the TiVo buffers at any one given moment in time.*

You will be able to watch the Movie from Netflix almost instantly. Netflix will adjust bitrate based on your Internet connection speed just like it does on your computer.

As per Netflix for netflix streaming...
(http://www.netflix.com/NetflixReadyDevices?lnkctr=wnph_nfrd&lnkce=nrdwiphpra&trkid=437882)

*"A broadband Internet connection
You need a fast Internet connection with a speed of at least 1.5 Mbps (such as a mid-level DSL connection). 3 Mbps is recommended for best performance and quality."*

*"Do movies get stored on the device?

No. When you choose a movie or TV show to play, it streams over the Internet from Netflix servers to your TV, via the device. It starts in as little as 30 seconds. It doesn't get stored on your device and never even passes through your computer. You never have to worry about managing files on the device or synching with your computer."*

*"What is the picture quality?

Your Netflix ready device automatically analyzes the speed of your Internet connection whenever you start a movie or TV show and chooses the optimal image quality for your connection. For fast connections (3 Mbps or more), picture quality is comparable to DVD quality."*

*"Q: How does my Internet connection affect picture quality of movies I watch instantly?
A: 
To watch movies instantly via your PC or Netflix Ready device, we recommend a broadband connection providing at least 700 Kbps . The faster your connection, the better the quality. For DVD quality video and audio, you need a connection providing at least 2.4 Mbps.

Your connection speed will rise and fall depending on network usage in your home and conditions at your Internet Service Provider."*

The TiVo won't work any differently then the Blu-ray, Xbox, or Roku box's

The Netflix movie won't ever be shown in your "Normal" TiVo NPL. The only place the movie will be shown is in the "Netflix NPL". The Movie will not be stored on your TiVo in any permant fashion.

This comes straight from "Netflix" themselvs.

TGC


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Leo Valiant said:


> That differs from what the Roku folks have said and Netflix own Terms of Service.
> 
> "As an additional member benefit, you may instantly watch on up to six unique authorized devices, including personal computers and Netflix ready devices. For certain plans, you will be allowed to instantly watch simultaneously on more than one personal computer or through more than one Netflix ready device within your household, up to total of four devices at a given time."


Hmmm I am wondering about that myself. I have tried to stream from 2 differnt computers at the same time and it wouldn't let me.

I also tried streaming to my Xbox and to my computer at the same time and it wouldn't let me as well.

I found on Netflix that same statement as well. Hmmmmm Questions arise!

TGC


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

mikeyts said:


> It seems bizarre that TiVo could interface with YouTube without implementing whatever streaming protocol YouTube is using. As mentioned, I can't currently check it out for myself. If you're watching a long clip, can't you use skip-to-tick to quickly get to the end?


 Nope. As soon as you reach the end of current buffer skip to tick will take you back to the start of the show. You can't skip ahead of end of buffer. Hence it's a download and not streaming. I'm pretty sure Netflix will be the same. Question begs on how big the buffer is allowed to be and if there is a limit what the behavior is once the limit is exceeded. I would guess a circular buffer where the start of the buffer starts getting chopped off.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

TexasGrillChef said:


> For DVD quality video and audio, you need a connection providing at least 2.4 Mbps.


OK, but for HD streaming, I'd want better than DVD quality. How fast a connection do I need to max out the quality of the stream?


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

moyekj said:


> Nope. As soon as you reach the end of current buffer skip to tick will take you back to the start of the show. You can't skip ahead of end of buffer. Hence it's a download and not streaming. I'm pretty sure Netflix will be the same. Question begs on how big the buffer is allowed to be and if there is a limit what the behavior is once the limit is exceeded. I would guess a circular buffer where the start of the buffer starts getting chopped off.


AFAIK, Netflix limits its partners to only a certain amount of buffering. So the buffer size has a limit. If you look at how the XBox version works, you can easily select different scenes to move around the video. It also supports resuming (which is pretty natural for TiVo owners). Hopefully the TiVo version will support these features as well.


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

dalesd said:


> Whatever you do, don't cross the streams.
> It would be bad.


Obviously a Red Dwarf Fan! 

TGC


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Obviously a Red Dwarf Fan!
> 
> TGC


I'm thinking...










Happy Halloween!


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Hmmm I am wondering about that myself. I have tried to stream from 2 differnt computers at the same time and it wouldn't let me.


Here's what the NetFlix FAQ says:

Q:
Can I watch movies instantly on more than one PC or Netflix ready device?

A:
Some membership plans allow you to watch simultaneously on more than one personal computer or Netflix ready device at the same time (for example, watching a movie on your laptop while another family member watches on a TV via a Netflix ready device in another room ).

1-disc plans may watch on one device at a time, 2-disc plans on up to two devices at the same time, 3-disc plans on up to three devices, and plans with four or more discs on up to four devices simultaneously.

In addition, due to requirements from content providers, there's a limit to the number of unique devices each account can use to watch instantly. Each Netflix account may watch instantly on up to six unique authorized devices, including personal computers and Netflix ready devices.


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> OK, but for HD streaming, I'd want better than DVD quality. How fast a connection do I need to max out the quality of the stream?


That's a good question. I would make the educated guess that it would be at least 3 to 5mbps maybe even faster.

TGC


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> I'm thinking...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Come to think of it, you are right. That line was in that movie as well. 

TGC


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Just found out that Cox has only a *40 GB/month* cap on downloads for Preferred service:
http://www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
Even upgrading to Premium service only gets you to 60 GB/month.

Add even light/casual use of Netflix streaming service on top of normal use and I can easily exceed 40GB limit.

This could turn out to be a very serious limitation for Cox customers of this service if Cox is serious about enforcing those limits.


----------



## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Ok, I've gotten a little lost in the discussion.

I have Netflix and I have a Tivo Seris 3.

Is there anything special I have to do to start using this service or is it something that will just suddenly become available with a download from Tivo?

If so, is there a way to force the download?

Al


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

acvthree said:


> Ok, I've gotten a little lost in the discussion.
> 
> I have Netflix and I have a Tivo Seris 3.
> 
> ...


It's not available yet. It's coming soon.

It will probably be added in a way similar to Amazon Unbox (i.e. accessible from a menu), but we'll have to wait see.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

acvthree said:


> Ok, I've gotten a little lost in the discussion.
> 
> I have Netflix and I have a Tivo Seris 3.
> 
> ...


It's not live yet.


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

acvthree said:


> Ok, I've gotten a little lost in the discussion.
> 
> I have Netflix and I have a Tivo Seris 3.
> 
> ...


They are claiming it will be available in December. When in December is a good question.

Although we are *DUE* for our Fall 2008 update soon. The Netflix capability *WILL BE* coming in our Fall 2008 update.

You won't have to do anything. It will just come, there isn't anything you can do to force the download now or when it becomes available.

TGC


----------



## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks. I had the impression. probably false, that some people already had it or has seen it so I thought there may be an early sign up.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Al


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

acvthree said:


> Thanks. I had the impression. probably false, that some people already had it or has seen it so I thought there may be an early sign up.
> 
> Thanks for setting me straight.
> 
> Al


There is early sign up users for the same service via 360, and that has started I believe.


----------



## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

acvthree said:


> Thanks. I had the impression. probably false, that some people already had it or has seen it so I thought there may be an early sign up.
> 
> Thanks for setting me straight.
> 
> Al


Some have.... They are the "BETA TESTERS" and by contract they aren't allowed to talk about it.

TiVo is VERY strict about it's Beta Testers following the rules as well

TGC


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

All this is alittle too late for me. After being with Netflix for ten yeras I dropped them earlier this year. My VOD is supplied by VUDU, XBL, PSN, and FIOS HD VOD.
Although if the price is right I would consider joining Netflix again


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> All this is alittle too late for me. After being with Netflix for ten yeras I dropped them earlier this year. My VOD is supplied by VUDU, XBL, PSN, and FIOS HD VOD.
> Although if the price is right I would consider joining Netflix again


 Well, the price is known: $8.95/month plan gets you 1 at a time unlimited streaming as well as 1 at a time mail in DVD or Blu Ray (add $1/month for Blu Ray). Probably biggest issue right now is that only about 1 in 10 movies are available for streaming from Netflix, so one could run out of things to watch after a while. Don't know if some of the latest titles get added right away as a streaming option, but I suspect not.
What this probably will mean to me is I'll end up sampling some movies I otherwise would not think of adding to mail in list.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

moyekj said:


> What this probably will mean to me is I'll end up sampling some movies I otherwise would not think of adding to mail in list.


my wife has the "surprise me now" issue of just wanting to find something different than what was "planned" either via season passes of the mail queue of Netflix. She will not watch on a PC (and I do not blame her) So the watch now on the TiVo will be very useful to her.

I am happy as ilike monthly sub type plans versus rent each individually adn now TiVo has both my music plan and movie plan in an easy to use format. Now All I need is that keyboard interface for Rhapsody and You-tube searching.

of note and not discussed here yet - the Netflix "now playing" is filled by browsing netflix on a web browser on your PC and adding "instant viewing" selections to your unique instant viewing queue. That queue is what will show up on TiVo. So far no browsing from the netlfix ready device itself is available.


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## gear (Oct 1, 2006)

Currently I'm using Netflix's instant download via my Samsung Blue Ray player. The picture quality is excellent. I have to load my "instant viewing" queue with my computer then I can download and watch movies in the queue through the DVD player.

I also have a Mac mini and the Tivo series 3 connected to the same HD TV that the DVD player is connected to so it will be an interesting test once they are also able to use Netflix's service. I wonder which one will have the best picture quality.


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## mohanman (Dec 18, 2007)

I'm going to assume the Tivo series 3. Appletv has a max bitrate and resolution (though I love it)


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

There are multiple netflix threads, so I'm going to put it in this one. I watched a Watch Instantly movie on my Mac yesterday for the first time. It was Superbad. 

Instead of playing the DVD, someone at Neftlix recorded it off of the Starz cable network, and played the cable recording instead. It even had the Starz "This movie is rated R" with the various info and Starz logo.

Can they do that? Why would they do that?


----------



## pusta (Aug 2, 2007)

Turtleboy said:


> There are multiple netflix threads, so I'm going to put it in this one. I watched a Watch Instantly movie on my Mac yesterday for the first time. It was Superbad.
> 
> Instead of playing the DVD, someone at Neftlix recorded it off of the Starz cable network, and played the cable recording instead. It even had the Starz "This movie is rated R" with the various info and Starz logo.
> 
> Can they do that? Why would they do that?


Netflix has partnered with the old Starz Play service to stream Starz content through Watch Instantly, so totally legal


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> There are multiple netflix threads, so I'm going to put it in this one. I watched a Watch Instantly movie on my Mac yesterday for the first time. It was Superbad.
> 
> Instead of playing the DVD, someone at Neftlix recorded it off of the Starz cable network, and played the cable recording instead. It even had the Starz "This movie is rated R" with the various info and Starz logo.
> 
> Can they do that? Why would they do that?


IIRC, Netflix integrates the Starz library. All movies wouldn't be like that, just the ones that come from Starz.

Also note that Netflix feeds provide varying quality depending on your Internet bandwidth. The slower your Internet connection, the worse the picture. You need ~5Mbps sustained to ensure that you get the best possible picture on the SD content. And just because you have a 5-6Mbps connection doesn't necessarily mean you can sustain ~5Mbps from Netflix's servers.


----------



## erwos (Jun 25, 2008)

moyekj said:


> Just found out that Cox has only a *40 GB/month* cap on downloads for Preferred service:
> http://www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
> Even upgrading to Premium service only gets you to 60 GB/month.
> 
> ...


A 40gbyte cap means that you'd have to stream 320gbit of material to hit the cap. You're not going to hit it with casual (2 hours per night usage) usage. Maybe my math is wrong here, but:

5mbps = 1800mbph = 1.8gbph
2 * 30h * 1.8gb = 108gbit of data = 13.5gbyte of data

Now, if you're doing a lot of downloads on the side, that could be more of a problem - but, regular web browsing, gaming, updates, and email isn't going to get you there. Torrenting and other P2P activities of a most likely illegal nature very well could.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

erwos said:


> A 40gbyte cap means that you'd have to stream 320gbit of material to hit the cap. You're not going to hit it with casual (2 hours per night usage) usage. Maybe my math is wrong here, but:
> 
> 5mbps = 1800mbph = 1.8gbph
> 2 * 30h * 1.8gb = 108gbit of data = 13.5gbyte of data
> ...


You're ignoring traffic overhead, so probably double that number to closer to 30GB of data.

So about half their quota will be taken just with 2-hours per day (average) of movies. No idea what regular browsing and gaming uses an hour/day/month.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

erwos said:


> A 40gbyte cap means that you'd have to stream 320gbit of material to hit the cap. You're not going to hit it with casual (2 hours per night usage) usage. Maybe my math is wrong here, but:
> 
> 5mbps = 1800mbph = 1.8gbph
> 2 * 30h * 1.8gb = 108gbit of data = 13.5gbyte of data


Your numbers are off by an order of magnitude. 
5 mbps x 3600 seconds/hour = *18000 mbph* (not 1800 mbph)
18000 / 1000 gb/mb = 18 gbph / 8 gb/GB = 2.25 GB/h

So in two hours you'd use 4.5 GB and in 30 days you'd use *135 GB* (not 13.5 GB).

So with a 40 GB cap, you could only stream about 17.75 hours worth of video at 5 mbps without exceeding the cap, assuming you did nothing else. With a 250 GB cap that extends to about 111 hours.


----------



## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> You need ~5Mbps sustained to ensure that you get the best possible picture on the SD content.


I haven't had less than 10 Mbps service during the existence of Netflix "Watch Instantly" (originally "Watch Now") so I can't say from personal experience, but I don't believe that that's true. Netflix says (here) that you get their "High Quality" stream after they test and see that your bandwidth is at least 1.6 Mbps.

Where are you getting that 5 Mbps number from?

I've played something between 40 and 50 hours of standard definition Netflix "Watch Instantly", and I've seen it drop to sub "High Quality" only once.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

mikeyts said:


> Where are you getting that 5 Mbps number from?


That could be required for HD streaming.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

morac said:


> Your numbers are off by an order of magnitude.
> 5 mbps x 3600 seconds/hour = *18000 mbph* (not 1800 mbph)
> 18000 / 1000 gb/mb = 18 gbph / 8 gb/GB = 2.25 GB/h
> 
> ...


 Yup. I think the 5 Mbps is too high especially if we are talking about SD streaming but still one gets the picture that 40 GB in a month can easily be exceeded even without other activity.
I've learned from some other forums that it seems like Cox does not seem to enforce those numbers. In one extreme case a user in my local market said he exceeded 1 TB/month for 3 months in a row and never got a warning (I'd hate to be his neighbor). I'm pretty sure I've exceeded 40 GB/month several times before and probably the upstream limit as well due to heavy Slingbox use.
However, even if they don't seem to enforce those caps just the fact that it's spelled out in Terms And Conditions means they reserve the right to do so if they see fit. I'm not going to sweat it for now and there is competition in DSL should it really become a problem, but it's still something to be aware of if you are using Cox HSI.


----------



## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

morac said:


> That could be required for HD streaming.


He (bkdtv) said SD streaming. The articles about Netflix HD streaming are saying that it will require an 8-10 Mbps connection, but I can't find any statement by Netflix which confirms that.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

mikeyts said:


> I haven't had less than 10 Mbps service during the existence of Netflix "Watch Instantly" (originally "Watch Now") so I can't say from personal experience, but I don't believe that that's true. Netflix says (here) that you get their "High Quality" stream after they test and see that your bandwidth is at least 1.6 Mbps.
> 
> Where are you getting that 5 Mbps number from?
> 
> I've played something between 40 and 50 hours of standard definition Netflix "Watch Instantly", and I've seen it drop to sub "High Quality" only once.


It's possible that wherever I read that was wrong. Or perhaps I misunderstood. If you have a 10Mbps connection, then you should certainly be seeing the best available feed.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

I just watched tested the latest two episodes of Heroes on Netflix. Bandwidth utilization was between 8.3 Mbps and 13.2 Mbps, with an average of about 8.8 Mbps. Bandwidth use never fell below 8.3 Mbps.

This is on a 20/5 FiOS connection, which maxes out at about 20.7 Mbps, as reported by Speakeasy's Speedtest.


----------



## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I tried it and it (watching an episode of Doctor Who) and it consumed about 5 Mbps consistently until it had buffered about half of the 42 minutes (which took around 10 minutes), then it stopped and only used the line for a few seconds every minute.

I'm assuming that if it had only a 2 Mbps connection it never would have gotten very far ahead and would have consumed all of the connection all of the time.

I moved a week ago and don't have a wired network connection yet, so I'm getting 6-7 Mbps to my laptop over a wireless G connection.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> I just watched tested the latest two episodes of Heroes on Netflix. Bandwidth utilization was between 8.3 Mbps and 13.2 Mbps, with an average of about 8.8 Mbps. Bandwidth use never fell below 8.3 Mbps.


Well for capping purposes, the streaming bit rate isn't what's important, what's important is the program's encoded bit rate (or total byte count). For example if the program's encoded bit rate is 2 mbps and the program is 30 minutes long than the byte count is 450 MB. It doesn't matter if your stream buffers at 8 mbps since that just means it buffers faster (in 7.5 minutes as opposed to 30 minutes). The byte count is the same.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

morac said:


> Well for capping purposes, the streaming bit rate isn't what's important, what's important is the program's encoded bit rate (or total byte count). For example if the program's encoded bit rate is 2 mbps and the program is 30 minutes long than the byte count is 450 MB. It doesn't matter if your stream buffers at 8 mbps since that just means it buffers faster (in 7.5 minutes as opposed to 30 minutes). The byte count is the same.


That's true. It does show that the Netflix site is capable of sustaining 8+Mbps today, however.


----------



## Scyber (Apr 25, 2002)

So I have been looking over the netflix watch instantly catalog of the last few days, and surprisingly (to me at least), I see they have episodes from the current season of some TV shows. Does anyone have a list of shows that have their current seasons available via netflix? I'm just curious b/c if that list is large enough (and it is expanding), I'd seriously have to consider dropping pay TV and going OTA and netflix exclusively.


----------



## actorguy1 (May 6, 2008)

I keep hearing about beta testing the netlfix to tivo connection for a few "thousand tivo subscribers" with full access by late December. Is there anyway to find out how to be in on the "few thousand tivo subscribers" that they are beta testing this on? I have not checked for any recent updates on my tivo regarding any netflix news. Thanks.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TiVo has a generic beta interest sign-up site at http://www.tivo.com/beta.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TexasGrillChef said:


> 4. Xbox 360 &/or PS/3 using "PLAY NOW" software from playnow.com


Been using Play Now all week with my 360 since reading about it here. It's great! Thanks TGC! :up:

Can't wait for the 360 Netflix to go live this month to continue streaming Netflix since my Play Now trial will soon expire. Bad timing for Play Now, they almost had my $30 too. 

Hopefully the Tivo experience is just as good so I can avoid having to become a permanent subscriber to Xbox live.

Now I am beginning to wonder just how much bandwidth I am consuming on Comcast. Been watching a lot of The Office.


----------



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

Scyber said:


> So I have been looking over the netflix watch instantly catalog of the last few days, and surprisingly (to me at least), I see they have episodes from the current season of some TV shows. Does anyone have a list of shows that have their current seasons available via netflix? I'm just curious b/c if that list is large enough (and it is expanding), I'd seriously have to consider dropping pay TV and going OTA and netflix exclusively.


I am very interested in this scenario as well. What current TV shows are available (I couldn't find them browsing, maybe I'm being obtuse) and how quickly are they updated?


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

dig_duggler said:


> I am very interested in this scenario as well. What current TV shows are available (I couldn't find them browsing, maybe I'm being obtuse)...


Click on Watch Instantly->Genres->Television.

http://www.netflix.com/WiGenre?genreId=2197&lnkctr=mhwG2197


----------



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> Click on Watch Instantly->Genres->Television.
> 
> http://www.netflix.com/WiGenre?genreId=2197&lnkctr=mhwG2197


Ah, now I see why I'm obtuse. You need a membership to browse.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

dig_duggler said:


> Ah, now I see why I'm obtuse. You need a membership to browse.


PM me an email address I will get you a 2 week free trial. You can join and quit as often as you like.


----------



## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Scyber said:


> So I have been looking over the netflix watch instantly catalog of the last few days, and surprisingly (to me at least), I see they have episodes from the current season of some TV shows. Does anyone have a list of shows that have their current seasons available via netflix? I'm just curious b/c if that list is large enough (and it is expanding), I'd seriously have to consider dropping pay TV and going OTA and netflix exclusively.


They do pretty well with CBS--they have the current season of _CSI: Crime Scene Investigation_, _CSI: Miami_, _CSI: NY_, _NCIS_ and _NUMB3RS_. They have a lot of NBC stuff, but only the current season of _Heroes_. There's some old ABC series, but nothing even close to current, nor is there any current Fox or CW stuff. They have a lot of PBS, including some stuff from this year.


----------



## nemein (Jul 3, 2008)

For the newer shows they are usually available the day after showing. For example the CSI: NY from last night is now available...


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

mikeyts said:


> They do pretty well with CBS--they have the current season of _CSI: Crime Scene Investigation_, _CSI: Miami_, _CSI: NY_, _NCIS_ and _NUMB3RS_. They have a lot of NBC stuff, but only the current season of _Heroes_.


Actually, they do have Heroes 1, 2, and 3 available for streaming.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Will the TV shows be available in HD?


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> Will the TV shows be available in HD?


I heard during the XBox announcement that very few movies and tv shows would be in HD to start. Heroes season 3 was one of the shows that would be in HD.


----------



## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> Actually, they do have Heroes 1, 2, and 3 available for streaming.


Poorly worded, perhaps. The question was "Does anyone have a list of shows that have their current seasons available via netflix?" What I meant was, "They have a lot of NBC stuff, but the only NBC series that they have the current season of is _Heroes_."


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

That must be a beta version.
If that is the case, you might want to make that the last you speak of it.


----------



## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Actually, they do have Heroes 1, 2, and 3 available for streaming.


Confirming this. Our family just got the "Heroes" bug, and we had marathon "Heroes" sessions to watch all the previous shows. We use the VMC Netflix plugin to Windows Media Center, with the Xbox 360 as an extender, to watch it on our TV. The video quality was quite good, and the application interface worked very nicely.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

CharlesH said:


> Confirming this. Our family just got the "Heroes" bug, and we had marathon "Heroes" sessions to watch all the previous shows. We use the VMC Netflix plugin to Windows Media Center, with the Xbox 360 as an extender, to watch it on our TV. The video quality was quite good, and the application interface worked very nicely.


If you use "Play On" from "Themediamall.com" you can even watch HULU.com & Netflix.com as well on your XBox 360

TGC


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