# Value of Tivo HD vs Fios HD DVR ?



## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

I've got a bit of a dilemma that I could use some advice on.

Fios is just now avaiable to me, but Verizon's Moto HD DVR boxes are on back order for the next few months.

If I buy a Tivo HD ( I like Tivo and currently have D*) I have to pay Tivo's $12.95 /mo subscription charge plus $8.00/mo Vzn 2 cablecards charge.(they don't have M cards)

So the Tivo is going to be $21.00/mo vs Vzn $15.95/mo HD DVD (when it's available again) Somehow this doesn't make economic sense to me because I also have to lay out the ~$280.00 purchase price of the Tivo.

I'm aware of the Tivo benefits, but is it really worth all the extra $$. Thanks guys.


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## TolloNodre (Nov 3, 2007)

Tivo_60 said:


> I'm aware of the Tivo benefits, but is it really worth all the extra $$. Thanks guys.


That's a question of personal preference only you can answer.

Or am I missing something you're looking for...


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

TolloNodre said:


> That's a question of personal preference only you can answer.
> 
> Or am I missing something you're looking for...


No, I'm just trying to justify the Tivo's application at the above expense. In other words, why are Tivo HD costs more than a Fios supplied box. I'm looking at that monthly Tivo subscription fee at a perceived value of maybe $5.99 /mo. The other problem with it is that one year commitment. That's a real "fly in the ointment" for me. I mean, I realize that they're retailing the units below cost and need to recoup some of that money, but IMO they'd have a LOT more subscribers from Cable and Fios if they were less money than the lease cost rather than more.


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## stream (Jul 25, 2007)

The THD can use a single multi stream card, so if you can get one of those that's $3 less per month.


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## TolloNodre (Nov 3, 2007)

Yes, TiVos cost a premium over the generic DVRs from a provider. But TiVos are more reliable overall and offer a much better experience, IMO. But again, only you can decide if the price difference (and commitment) is worth it to you. I can only buy what people offer, not what I 'wished' they'd offer.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

You decide for yourself.
For me, it was simple. Did I want to sit down to an annoying Verizon supplied DVR, day after day, just to save a few bucks a month? Life's too short. I bought two S3's.

I saved one Verizon DVR for our guest room (sorry, guests) and compare it to my TiVo's once in a while when it gets updated. Even with the latest software from Verizon (which looks pretty), it is absolutely horrible to work with.


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## kirk1701 (Feb 5, 2007)

Why is your Tivo monthly service $16 ???

I have two tivo's and paying $6.99 on each a month 

maybe I shouldn't have told anyone


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## capnkt (Sep 20, 2004)

As a long time Direct TV, with 2 HR10 250's, 3 standard def Tivos, and even the new HR20 (Direct TV DVR), we decided to switch to Fios.

It took my wife 3 days of using the "kluge" of a box (slow, very few hours of hard drive space for HD, just plain goofy) they had for her to say "Call Verizon and cancel, I want my Tivo back!!"

I love Verizon's quality of the HD, so it was a perfect opportunity to upgrade to the Tivo HD boxes.

I am not sorry, nor have I looked back once.

Buy the Tivos before you place the order, activate them, allow the updates, and you are good to go!

Good Luck!!!!


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

kirk1701 said:


> Why is your Tivo monthly service $16 ???
> 
> I have two tivo's and paying $6.99 on each a month
> 
> maybe I shouldn't have told anyone


It isn't, it's 12.99 /mo .$16.99/mo is for the Fios box.

@stream. 
Unfortunately VZn does not have M cards , only S, so it takes 2

Thanks all, for your responses....I think I'm going the Tivo route (my wife also likes ther interface that she's become accustomed to)


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

Tivo_60 said:


> It isn't, it's 12.99 /mo .$16.99/mo is for the Fios box.
> 
> @stream.
> Unfortunately VZn does not have M cards , only S, so it takes 2
> ...


If you look at it from the economic stand point there are a lot of things that you would do to cut cost on - car, house, etc. I.e. I bought a Lexus, but could really get away with a Toyota for a lot less for the same realibility, I got Tivo HD but could've gotten away with a cable company DVR. Now let's look at Lexus vs. Toyota - luxury vs practicality; Tivo vs cable company DVR - features-packed DVR experience vs just a DVR functionality. You choose.


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

Im sold, I'm sold ! Tivo HD it is.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

One last thing that was missed - the THD can follow you when you move or change providers. You could use the THD with cable or save even more money using it with just an antenna. The Verizon box is on rental to you.


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## kelpster (Feb 23, 2008)

I've been skimming this board all night and am feeling confused. I'm hoping someone could give me some advice, please.

I have Dish Satellite and a Series 2 Tivo. We love our Tivo. We decided to get FiOS and will have it installed in a couple of weeks--TV, Internet and phone service. The Verizon consultant said their DVR is just like Tivo, but after browsing about, I now seriously doubt that. I think I'll have to call her back and adjust my order. But to clarify....

1) Can they connect my Series 2 to FiOS? Would I need to order a Cable Card in advance for that? I understand I would not be able to record any HD programs and that's okay for now.

2) If I need to get a HD Tivo for me to keep a Tivo with FiOS, should I run out and get one now? I've seen advice that one needs to have it running and updated to minimize the cable card troubles. I could hook it up to my Dish connection and still watch tv until the FiOS installation occurs?

3) If I need a HD Tivo, should I try to find a Series 3 over the HDT?

Any help is sincerely appreciated! You all are a life raft in an ocean of confusing technology. 

Thank you in advance!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

kelpster said:


> 1) Can they connect my Series 2 to FiOS? Would I need to order a Cable Card in advance for that? I understand I would not be able to record any HD programs and that's okay for now.


 With a direct coax connection to the TiVo Series2, you would only get local channels. You need the FiOS STB (or alternatively, a TivoHD with a CableCard) to get the digital cable channels.

You can connect a Verizon FiOS STB to the TiVo Series2, much like you did with the Dish Network STB. The TivoHD would eliminate the need for the Verizon FiOS STB; for the TivoHD, you would get two CableCards from Verizon instead.



kelpster said:


> 2) If I need to get a HD Tivo for me to keep a Tivo with FiOS, should I run out and get one now? I've seen advice that one needs to have it running and updated to minimize the cable card troubles. I could hook it up to my Dish connection and still watch tv until the FiOS installation occurs?


The TivoHD only supports cable and over-the-air signals. It does not support satellite.

You will want a TivoHD to take full advantage of the FiOS service. If you have an off-air antenna, you can connect that to the TivoHD to receive the locals in HD while you await your FiOS install.

I have a TivoHD with FiOS and it is excellent. I think you will be very pleased.



kelpster said:


> 3) If I need a HD Tivo, should I try to find a Series 3 over the HDT?


The TivoHD will work just as well for your purposes. The primary benefit of the TiVo Series3 is the improved performance with multi-room viewing (transferring recordings between multiple TiVos). If you only expect to have one TiVo, that would be a non-issue.


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## xfm (Apr 1, 2005)

FWIW, I have been a TiVo user since 1999 and used multiple D*TiVo's (SD and HD) thru most of my 10 years with D*. Had 3 SDs and one HD operational when I gave up D*.

Recently got FIOS service with their DVR and added an S3. I figured I'd give their DVR a try while waiting for my $200 BB Gift Card reward for FIOS signup.

What a clumsy, slow device! What a non-intuitive, slow-reacting, confusing, poorly-constructed user interface! Functionally, it cannot even do basic tasks like toggling between tuners while retaining buffers, a neat TiVo feature when watching sports.

Got my $200 card, bought a TiVoHD to go with my S3 (and an S2 for SD), and now the FIOS DVR is going back home. Good riddance to a poorly engineered, poorly programmed device.

My value equation includes usability and features that the FIOS DVR is totally incapable of. No contest.

Just my humble opinion.


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## kelpster (Feb 23, 2008)

xfm said:


> What a clumsy, slow device! What a non-intuitive, slow-reacting, confusing, poorly-constructed user interface! Functionally, it cannot even do basic tasks like toggling between tuners while retaining buffers, a neat TiVo feature when watching sports.
> 
> Just my humble opinion.


Thank you for the frank opinion. I think we'd be VERY unhappy with the Verizon DVR. You're very clear about what you didn't like and I appreciate that.


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## kelpster (Feb 23, 2008)

bkdtv said:


> With a direct coax connection to the TiVo Series2, you would only get local channels. You need the FiOS STB (or alternatively, a TivoHD with a CableCard) to get the digital cable channels.
> 
> You can connect a Verizon FiOS STB to the TiVo Series2, much like you did with the Dish Network STB. The TivoHD would eliminate the need for the Verizon FiOS STB; for the TivoHD, you would get two CableCards from Verizon instead.


Thank you for the very clear explanation; that is so helpful! A STB for the S2 and two CableCards for the S3 that I gotta go buy. Do you think I'll need a wireless network adapter for the S2? Will the FiOS installer need to bring some hardware for it?



bkdtv said:


> The TivoHD only supports cable and over-the-air signals. It does not support satellite.


Oh, yeah. I totally forgot that little fact--and it's that fact that brought me to consider FiOS in the first place. Jeeze!

So...I guess I should buy the S3 and set it up with a phone line and a tv monitor so I can register it and have it download the newest software. We live in a hilly area and do not get an off-air signal. Does that sound about right?[/QUOTE]



bkdtv said:


> I have a TivoHD with FiOS and it is excellent. I think you will be very pleased.
> 
> The TivoHD will work just as well for your purposes. The primary benefit of the TiVo Series3 is the improved performance with multi-room viewing (transferring recordings between multiple TiVos). If you only expect to have one TiVo, that would be a non-issue.


I am very glad to hear you are happy with FiOS. I'm swinging between excitement and cold feet. It sounds great but the "what ifs" can drive a person crazy. It helps seeing all these folks that have been there, done that--and would do it again. 

The S3 has a bigger hard drive, doesn't it? It's not inconceivable that we might end up replacing the S2. Like so often the case, one thinks one doesn't really need something and then you realize that it might be quite nice afterall. I just can't afford to buy two S3 or THD right now. Getting everything bundled will save us at least $50/month.

Thank you very much for your help. The learning curve can be a little steep sometimes and a helping hand is very appreciated.


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

I have set up my Tivo HD now, including the firmware to 9.2. Fios won't be installed for another week, so I've been uising it on the 7 day trial, w/OTA

Maybe it's my imagination, but it looks like the HD PQ is BETTER than when the ant is hooked up directly to my panel ( Pioneer 50" Elite).

Could it be that the ATSC tuner in the Tivo is better than the ATSC one in the Pio? Or is it just wishful thinking ? 
BTW, pleasant surprise that I can record 2 different shows @ the same time OTA.


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## mzupan (Sep 25, 2006)

I am thrilled to hear that FIOS works with the S3. They are laying the FIOS cables in my neighborhood now and I will be getting it once it is available. I was worried that I would not be able to use my S3 and would have to go with the Verizon DVR. Knowing that FIOS works with the S3 just made FIOS a whole lot sexier!


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## jmairs (Feb 18, 2008)

Hi,

I've had Fios and their DVR for about a month and a half. The Fios tech comes today to install my cable cards and take back their DVR. Here are the things that drove me crazy

1) I'm recording and watching Washington Caps hockey game. I pause the game and go upstairs. Even though I'm recording the game the "pause" buffer can only pause for 30 minutes and then it picks up at current live time. So now when I come back downstairs I see the current score. Tivo will hold the pause indefinitely.

2) After watching a show, Tivo can "sense" that you have finished watching it and will ask you if you want to remove it. With Fios you have to re-navigate a couple of prompts to delete the show. Annoying.

BTW, I was a DirectTV/Tivo user for 7 yrs before the Fios switch.


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

jmairs said:


> Tivo will hold the pause indefinitely.


I don'y know of any Tivo that will do that. My Tivo HD is 30 min pause per tuner.


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

> 1) I'm recording and watching Washington Caps hockey game. I pause the game and go upstairs. Even though I'm recording the game the "pause" buffer can only pause for 30 minutes and then it picks up at current live time. So now when I come back downstairs I see the current score. Tivo will hold the pause indefinitely.


The pause forever is only true for the recorded programs, not for the time shifted TV.


Tivo_60 said:


> I don'y know of any Tivo that will do that. My Tivo HD is 30 min pause per tuner.


This is correct.


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## pilotbob (Nov 8, 2007)

Tivo_60 said:


> I've got a bit of a dilemma that I could use some advice on.
> 
> Fios is just now avaiable to me, but Verizon's Moto HD DVR boxes are on back order for the next few months.
> 
> ...


Yes... Here is a list of my "justification" for the TiVo over the FiOS DVR (previously posted on the tampaHD forum.)

First, I was with FiOs so I had the Moto box. After the guide update I could barely record 12 hours of HD on it. So, what "I" get from TiVO that I wasn't getting from the FiOS moto box, basically in priorty order:

1. The ability to expand the capacity. I have added the 500Gb extender. (This was the main reason I went to TiVO.)
2. Actually only recording first runs and not repeats.
3. Recording a second showing of a show if it missed the first time due to a higher priority show. (This works great for recording Daily Show, Colbert Report, Atlantis, and BSG... shows that repeat later.)
4. Clipping so that a show will record even if another show overlaps it by a minute or two (based on priority).
5. A "To Do" list so I can see exactally what TiVo plans to record and change if needed. 
6. Season Pass priorities.
7. Auto-record wish lists.
8. Any easy way to copy shows from TiVO to my PC.
9. History so I can see why a show wasn't recorded.
10. Scheduling Records from a web browser anywere.
11. Direct access to Amazon Unbox (for VOD movie rentals).
12. TiVo casts

Comming with the next update of TiVO desktop in March:

1. The ability to subscribe to a Video Cast via RSS and push it to the TiVo automatically.

BOb


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

Thanks Bob for the input. BTW, on the Moto box (and Tivo too I suppose), if you record the max HD hrs does that mean zero room for SD programs or is it HD max PLUS the SD max ?


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## pilotbob (Nov 8, 2007)

Tivo_60 said:


> Thanks Bob for the input. BTW, on the Moto box (and Tivo too I suppose), if you record the max HD hrs does that mean zero room for SD programs or is it HD max PLUS the SD max ?


On either machine there is 1 place to store stuff. So, on the FiOS box after I had about 12 hours of HD on the machine it would have to delete something to record something new. This just wasn't enough space and I didn't have time to watch my shows before new ones were deleteing them.

(My wife would be upset because "I" deleted the shows she liked.)

BOb


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

Geeez...and that box is rated @ 18hrs HD. The Tivo is 20hrs HD and I can fill that in a heartbeat. Looks like the 500gb add on is in my future.


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## pilotbob (Nov 8, 2007)

Tivo_60 said:


> Geeez...and that box is rated @ 18hrs HD. The Tivo is 20hrs HD and I can fill that in a heartbeat. Looks like the 500gb add on is in my future.


Yep, I ordered the 500GB extender the day after I ordered my TiVoHD (once I read on the FAQ here that the Seagate 750GB I ordered wouldn't work without hacking the thing). It's great. Plenty of room so far (Then again there has been a writers strike).

BOb


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Tivo_60 said:


> I've got a bit of a dilemma that I could use some advice on.
> 
> Fios is just now avaiable to me, but Verizon's Moto HD DVR boxes are on back order for the next few months.
> 
> ...


I will say this about that....

*Owning a TiVo isn't about saving money. Period.*

Now with that said. That doesn't mean you can't save money, or that some people don't. For *SOME* people. Buying a TiVo *IS* the less expensive route.

Owning a TiVo is about owning the best DVR with the *BEST* features & capabilities possible.

If all you care about is *MONEY*, They *STAY *with the FIOS DVR & *DON'T* buy a TiVo. *PLEASE*.

If you want to have the *BEST* DVR experiance possible. Get the best features, capabilities & "toys" that a DVR can provide. Then *PLEASE* buy a TiVo.

TGC


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## pilotbob (Nov 8, 2007)

TexasGrillChef said:


> If all you care about is *MONEY*, They *STAY *with the FIOS DVR & *DON'T* buy a TiVo. *PLEASE*.


I never read that the OP wanted to save money. He was asking, out loud, the same question we all ask ourselves whenever we buy anything.

Why is X more expensive than Y... and is the difference worth it "to me"?

For example, should I buy a 720p projector or a 1080p? Well, if all I watch is broadcast / cable TV then paying extra for the 1080p probably isn't worth it to me. But, if I want to use my Xbox/PS3/Blu-Ray at their best resolution then 1080p is what I need, and paying the extra is worth it.

BOb


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Most of us missed a key point in the OP. The FiOS HDDVR is on back order and the OP wouldn't be able to get one for several months. The real comparison is tivo vs NO HD DVR for two months.

Previous posters already listed most of the advantages of the tivo. Add to the list tivo has better guide data then the Verizon. Do a search, tivo uses Tribune and Verizon is currently using a different vendor.

Pre-pay for 2 or 3 years of service and the tivo cost drops.



pilotbob said:


> I never read that the OP wanted to save money. He was asking, out loud, the same question we all ask ourselves whenever we buy anything.
> 
> Why is X more expensive than Y... and is the difference worth it "to me"?
> 
> ...


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

pilotbob said:


> I never read that the OP wanted to save money. He was asking, out loud, the same question we all ask ourselves whenever we buy anything.
> 
> Why is X more expensive than Y... and is the difference worth it "to me"?
> 
> ...


Exactly Bob !

BTW, I've been using the Tivo in trial mode for the past week and I really like the ability to record two OTA channels at the same time. As Craig Furgeson
would say (raising fist) "take that Moto box!"

Fios install is about 10 days away, if I can ever get 2 csr's to quote me the same prices.


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

Speaking of money, Verizon just lowered the cost of the HD DVR to $15.95/mo (when it's available), but increased the CC's to $3.99 ea/mo. Maybe they're trying to discourage the Tivo option ? I edited my OP to reflect the changes.


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## bwbates69 (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi All

Been a lurker here for awhile and have a few questions dealign with FIOS and Tivo.

I was a DirectV Tivo customer for years and love the 3 D* boxes I have. But when I decided to finally upgrade to HD I was doing some research and suppoeably the only HD Tivo box for D* suppoeably won't handle the new HD channels. So when they finally isntalled FIOS TV(had internet FIOS for a few years) I signed up for it about a week ago. I do enjoy the FIOS TV itself, but as others have mentioned the DVR is SLOW in comparison. And I also signed up for the HD DVR's but as the OP mentioned they won't be avaiable for 1 or 2 months. I also found out from the installer, as has been mentioned, that the HD DVR only supports like 12 hours of HD and 20 hours of SD. Which meant I was utterly lied to by the rep who showed up and mentioned the FIOS HD DVR held 100 hours of HD programming. Anyways, I am supposed to receive a $200 Circuit City gift card and I figure I could put this towards an TiVo S3 or TivoHD. Assuming Circuit City sells them.

Anyways a few quesions for those who are using Tivo with FIOS.
1. The SD DVR they gave me only uses one coax input but still handles 2 tuners(i.e. uses the same coax cable). My question is if I pick up either hte S3 or TivoHD and get cablcards(from the sounds of it m-series are not available so I will need 2 of them), does that mean I will need two coax inputs then? Not really a problem since the setup from my DirecTV had two coax hookups so the wires are still being run there.

2. Since with TiVo you are using their guide, have you ever had any problems with the guides not being accurate on TiVo's side. i.e. shows starting a early or late a minute or two but Tivo not catching this so you etiher miss a few minutes from the beginning of s show or end.

3. Do either of the Tivo's(TivoHD or S3) support the On Demand feature of the boxes. My FIOS tech, who actually was really honest with me(he was even ready to cancel the order with me after I told him the sales rep told me the HD DVR's held 100 hours and he corrected me on that). Anyways, the FIOS Tech mentioned that the cable cards don't support On Demand and the Widgets feature of the TiVo boxes(plus some other things). Is this true? 

3. Did the Verizon people have any problems installing the cable cards into your Tivo. The tech I had, who seems very knowledgeable, mentioned that people didn't like the cable cards and that he woudl have to go out remove the cards and install bxoes. However, he mentioned this was mainly for TV's that were cable card compatible and the only Tivo owners he had hooked up were just connecting their TiVo to a standard set top box(he wasn't sure if they were using an IR Blaster or serial connection to get the TV and Set Top Box to communicate).

And as for what Tivo unit to pick up, the Tivo HD or S3. From what I gather the S3 has a bigger Hard drive, fancier remote, and allows for multiroom viewing. Is there anything else that is different?

Any input would be appreciated.


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## Tiyuri (May 3, 2002)

The FiOS Moto DVR isn't very good but there is no reason to make things up about it to make it seem worse...



pilotbob said:


> Yes... Here is a list of my "justification" for the TiVo over the FiOS DVR (previously posted on the tampaHD forum.)
> 
> First, I was with FiOs so I had the Moto box. After the guide update I could barely record 12 hours of HD on it. So, what "I" get from TiVO that I wasn't getting from the FiOS moto box, basically in priorty order:





> 2. Actually only recording first runs and not repeats.


This is an option with the FiOS DVR



> 3. Recording a second showing of a show if it missed the first time due to a higher priority show. (This works great for recording Daily Show, Colbert Report, Atlantis, and BSG... shows that repeat later.)


Technically the FiOS DVR can do this for shows like The Daily Show that don't use the new/repeat flag but it is tedious to set up.



> 5. A "To Do" list so I can see exactally what TiVo plans to record and change if needed.


It has this. Scheduled Recordings I believe they call it.



> 6. Season Pass priorities.


Series Manager allows you to set priority for each show.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

bwbates69 said:


> My question is if I pick up either hte S3 or TivoHD and get cablcards(from the sounds of it m-series are not available so I will need 2 of them), does that mean I will need two coax inputs then? Not really a problem since the setup from my DirecTV had two coax hookups so the wires are still being run there.


No, only one coax input is needed to support two tuners. The requirement of two coax was a satellite-specific requirement.



bwbates69 said:


> 2. Since with TiVo you are using their guide, have you ever had any problems with the guides not being accurate on TiVo's side. i.e. shows starting a early or late a minute or two but Tivo not catching this so you etiher miss a few minutes from the beginning of s show or end.


No. TiVo's guide data provider is Tribune Media, which is as reliable as it gets. DirecTV also uses Tribune.



bwbates69 said:


> 3. Do either of the Tivo's(TivoHD or S3) support the On Demand feature of the boxes. My FIOS tech, who actually was really honest with me(he was even ready to cancel the order with me after I told him the sales rep told me the HD DVR's held 100 hours and he corrected me on that). Anyways, the FIOS Tech mentioned that the cable cards don't support On Demand and the Widgets feature of the TiVo boxes(plus some other things). Is this true?


Yes, that is true.

No box but Verizon's own will ever support their VOD. Verizon uses their own proprietary implementation of IPTV for VOD so there is nothing TiVo or anyone else can do to support it. TiVo's next-generation Tru2Way box will support VOD with other cable providers, but even that won't be able to support Verizon's VOD.

Verizon has tried to push CableLabs to add IP capability to the OpenCable / Tru2way standard -- which would allow such boxes to support their VOD -- but they've haven't made any progress at all in that effort. Clearly other cable companies have no interest in making things easier on Verizon.



bwbates69 said:


> 3. Did the Verizon people have any problems installing the cable cards into your Tivo. The tech I had, who seems very knowledgeable, mentioned that people didn't like the cable cards and that he woudl have to go out remove the cards and install bxoes. However, he mentioned this was mainly for TV's that were cable card compatible and the only Tivo owners he had hooked up were just connecting their TiVo to a standard set top box(he wasn't sure if they were using an IR Blaster or serial connection to get the TV and Set Top Box to communicate).


Some Verizon installers are more experienced than others when it comes to CableCard installs. It's really the luck of the draw. If your installer does not have experience with TiVos, then make sure they follow the bundled instruction sheet.



bwbates69 said:


> And as for what Tivo unit to pick up, the Tivo HD or S3. From what I gather the S3 has a bigger Hard drive, fancier remote, and allows for multiroom viewing. Is there anything else that is different?


Functionality on both units is identical.

Both the TivoHD and TiVo Series3 support multiroom viewing. Multiroom viewing is just faster on the TiVo Series3 with the current software. MRV performance may improve on the TivoHD with a future software update.

TivoPony (the Tivo rep on this forum) has said that the next software update for the TivoHD and TiVo Series3 is coming any day now.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Tiyuri said:


> This is an option with the FiOS DVR


The poster was likely referring to the reliability -- or lack thereof -- of the first-run information on Verizon's Motorola DVR.

Verizon uses FYI Television as the guide data provider for their boxes. That provider is notoriously unreliable when it comes to first-run information. Verizon is under contract with FYI through 2008.

In the course of one year with the FiOS' Motorola DVR, I missed *over 30* series recordings. Perhaps 10 or so were missed due to completely wrong information in the guide, whereas the rest were missed due to improper flagging of first-runs as repeats. The FiOS Motorola DVR also recorded numerous repeats when I had first-run only set.

In the six months with the TivoHD, I have missed *zero* episodes.



Tiyuri said:


> Technically the FiOS DVR can do this for shows like The Daily Show that don't use the new/repeat flag but it is tedious to set up.


The Verizon DVR won't reschedule a recording for a later episode if it is not in the guide at the time of the initial conflict.

The Verizon DVR does not keep a recorded history of what did or did not record due to conflict. In contrast, TiVo keeps a record of programs that did and did not record for 28 days, and will continue looking for a missed episode even if no guide information exists for a re-airing at the time.


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## Tiyuri (May 3, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> The poster was likely referring to the reliability -- or lack thereof -- of the first-run information on Verizon's Motorola DVR.
> 
> Verizon uses FYI Television as the guide data provider for their boxes. That provider is notoriously unreliable when it comes to first-run information. Verizon is under contract with FYI through 2008.
> 
> ...


DIfferent experiences for different people. I had the Verizon DVR for about 10 months before I moved to a non-Verizon area. It never missed a recording.



> The Verizon DVR won't reschedule a recording for a later episode if it is not in the guide at the time of the initial conflict.
> 
> The Verizon DVR does not keep a recorded history of what did or did not record. In contrast, TiVo keeps a record of programs that did and did not record for 28 days, and will continue looking for a missed episode even if no guide information exists for a re-airing at the time.


That is true. However, for shows like the Daily Show it will record the next showing because TDS does not flag new/repeat.


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## bwbates69 (Mar 2, 2008)

bkdtv said:


> No. TiVo's guide data provider is Tribune Media, which is as reliable as it gets. DirecTV also uses Tribune.


Thanks for the informaiton I do appreciate it.

One more question though. Do you need a phone line hooked up permantely to the Tivo with FIOS Cablecards, or can it communicate fine just using the cards?

Thanks!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

bwbates69 said:


> Thanks for the informaiton I do appreciate it.
> 
> One more question though. Do you need a phone line hooked up permantely to the Tivo with FIOS Cablecards, or can it communicate fine just using the cards?


TiVo hasn't required phone lines in more than five years.

But the TiVo does require a network connection to download guide data. If you have a wireless router, you can use TiVo's 802.11g wireless adapter. Or you can run an ethernet cable directly to your ethernet router.


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## Tivo_60 (Jun 13, 2003)

bkdtv said:


> TiVo hasn't required phone lines in more than five years.
> 
> But the TiVo does require a network connection to download guide data. If you have a wireless router, you can use TiVo's 802.11g wireless adapter. Or you can run an ethernet cable directly to your ethernet router.


Actually, it's a choice. The Tivo will download guide data via phone line if you wish. That's the way I do it.


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## bwbates69 (Mar 2, 2008)

bkdtv said:


> TiVo hasn't required phone lines in more than five years.
> 
> But the TiVo does require a network connection to download guide data. If you have a wireless router, you can use TiVo's 802.11g wireless adapter. Or you can run an ethernet cable directly to your ethernet router.


That basically answers my question...was wondering if it could just use my wireless network to communicate.
Thanks again!


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## bwbates69 (Mar 2, 2008)

Tivo_60 said:


> Actually, it's a choice. The Tivo will download guide data via phone line if you wish. That's the way I do it.


Ok, but since I already have a router near my old D*Tivo which I used for MultiRoom Viewing I just wasn't sure if the Ethernet Port on the TivoHD or S3 was just meant for that.
Thanks for the iinput!

(After my FIOS DVR failed to record a show from last night I am probably going out to pick up a Tivo pretty soon.)


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## JonathanMeyers (Dec 20, 2007)

In my opinion the Verizon DVR stinks. I had it and hated it. The Verizon VOD is pretty much useless. TiVO rules.


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## substance12 (Feb 6, 2008)

also not mentioned is that the fios dvr does not have a "pass thru" mode. I found the quality of my video much better when using the tivohd (which does allow pass thru mode). 

you can also schedule recordings online. I have 30+ season passes. I entered 75&#37; of them in 2 mins online. 

my tivohd has never missed a beat. my former verizon dvr missed too many in the 2 weeks that I gave it a shot. Is it really worth it to watch it like a hawk everyday? you should read the thread on avsforum... it's not pretty. 

tivoHD ain't hype. I though I understood the "coolness" of a dvr... tivo takes it to a new level.


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## jonra (Apr 1, 2005)

I'm in the process os switching totally to comcast with two TIVO HDs. I have one Hr10-250 left on dtv. That will be turned off later this month. I have the lateset scientic atlanic HD DVR, I'll be turning back in soon. The TIVO HD is better in almost every way. I agree with everything posted here. 

One very important feature TIVO has that is very important is the "resume play" feature. On the scientic atlantic box, if you stop watching a show in the middle somewhere, it doesn't remember where you were. When you go back to the show later, next day, etc. it goes back to the beginning of the show. The TIVO remembers where you left off!

TIVO is still the best DVR, not perfect - but still the best!


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## sescofresco (Mar 6, 2008)

Well, I have been a FiosTV user for a year now and I truely hate the Verizon DVRs. I have 3 currently and all have been replaced at least once. One has the honor of being replaced 3 times. I was a DirecTV user for 7 Years prior with Tivo. I ran across this deal from TiVo http://www.tivo.com/promo/factory_renewed_dvr.html which sparked my interest in TiVo again. I called up Verizon FiosTV and received a quote of *$3.99/month for a SINGLE Stream CableCard*. It still requires a tech but there is no installation fee. Also, no charge for picking up the crappy DVR. So I am heading back to Tivoland. I will start with one THD and slowly migrate.:up:


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## abdu (Feb 29, 2004)

Big advantage for Tivo:

I can transfer files between my PC and Tivo. I copy from Tivo some shows so I can watch them on my portable video player. 

I transfer shows from the TIVO to my PC so I can remove the commercials, merge shows a few shows and send them back to Tivo.

I believe FiOS's DVR can do any transfers.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I researched the Verizon DVR (i.e., the Motorola QIP6416) vs. the S3 Tivo before making my decision and the Tivo was the clearcut winner. Here's why I chose Tivo:

1. The Verizon DVR only came with a 160GB hard drive vs. a 250GB for Tivo.
2. The Tivo could be expanded with a larger drive quite easily whereas the Motorola could not be expanded at all.
3. I wanted multiple DVRs in the same room. The Tivo has nine sets of IR codes that can be used whereas the Motorola has only one, making it extremely difficult to control more than one box in the same room without interfering with a 2nd box.
4. The Verizon DVR was $14.95 per month at the time and recently went up to $15.95 (it increased in price and not decreased as someone erroneously stated in an earlier post). With a 3-year commitment to the Tivo service and two cablecards ($2.99 each at the time), my S3 Tivo cost me $14.29 monthly. The 2nd S3 Tivo cost me $12.93 with the MSD, cablecards, and a 3-year commitment, making the monthly total for both Tivos $27.22 vs. $29.80 for two Verizon DVRs. The current cost for both Tivos is now $31.22 per month vs. $31.90 for two Verizon DVRs so the monthly cost is slightly in Tivo's favor if you don't mind a 3-year commitment. The good news is that I get to keep the lower rates with Tivo once my commitment expires and I plan on sticking with Verizon for the long haul. I had DirecTV for over 10 years and was ready for a change.

I've been a Tivo hacker for over 8 years now and there are things you can do with a Tivo that no other DVR can match so I was leaning towards the Tivo from the beginning. After comparing the features (or lack thereof) of the Verizon DVR vs. the S3 Tivo, choosing the Tivo was a no-brainer for me.


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## invarnima (Jun 1, 2009)

Even the gurus will agree with what is being said here. I am glad I found it.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Tivo_60 said:


> I don'y know of any Tivo that will do that. My Tivo HD is 30 min pause per tuner.


I think that what the OP is saying is that the Tivo will stay at the "back end" of the buffer while the FIOS DVR skips to the current time. Si if he is time shifting the Capitols game and comes back he doesn't see the current score when he jumps back to the beginning of the buffer.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

Tivo_60 said:


> I've got a bit of a dilemma that I could use some advice on.
> 
> Fios is just now avaiable to me, but Verizon's Moto HD DVR boxes are on back order for the next few months.
> 
> ...


Here are a couple of things I have to say about that...

1. You get what you pay for.

2. Your comparing apples to oranges as the TiVo is more than *"JUST"* a DVR it is so much more.

3. Last but not least.... People *DON'T* get a TiVo to save money. You get a TiVo cause you want the *BEST* DVR available.

It is like buying a BMW or Mercedes. Sure you can buy a car alot cheaper and even one with better gas mileage. But it ain't BMW or Mercedes. Get the point?

So my recomendation to you. If your worried about money, If money is more important to you than getting features and value then... *DON'T* buy a TiVo. If you want the *BEST* DVR you can get. Buy a TiVo.

Good luck in whatever decesion you make.

TGC

P.S. I will also admit the TiVo is *NOT* perfect... but it is still better than any other DVR out there.


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## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

TexasGrillChef said:


> Here are a couple of things I have to say about that...
> 
> 1. You get what you pay for.
> 
> ...


+1 :up: Bingo.. Agree 110% .. It what I tell DTV every time they call me telling me that have a "DVR" just like TIVO


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## Boorchmen (Jun 20, 2009)

How do you look for information for your blog content?


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## flynz4 (Jun 20, 2009)

xfm said:


> What a clumsy, slow device! What a non-intuitive, slow-reacting, confusing, poorly-constructed user interface! Functionally, it cannot even do basic tasks like toggling between tuners while retaining buffers, a neat TiVo feature when watching sports.


Well said,

We switched to Fios over a year ago... and have suffered with their horrible DVRs for too long. We previously had DTV Tivo boxes. Since switching to Fios my wife and kids (who do most of the TV viewing) felt that the switch to Verizon FIOS was a mistake strictly because of their lousy DVR.

Everyone is delighted that we are switching back to Tivo.

/Jim


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## MookieDoug (Apr 6, 2009)

flynz4 said:


> Well said,
> 
> We switched to Fios over a year ago... and have suffered with their horrible DVRs for too long. We previously had DTV Tivo boxes. Since switching to Fios my wife and kids (who do most of the TV viewing) felt that the switch to Verizon FIOS was a mistake strictly because of their lousy DVR.
> 
> ...


You were able to live with the FIOS DVR for a year? I could only stand it for about 36 hours before I had a new THD on order.


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## FilliPac (Jul 9, 2009)

I found your site on Google and read a few of your other entires. Nice Stuff. I'm looking forward to reading more from you.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

I switched to Fios last September from Direct TV (HR10-250 Direct Tivo HD)

I bought an HD Tivo. Verizon's deal included a DVR free for one year. Having now had both in my house for many months, Tivo is the clear winner. I won't repeat all of the reasons as many have listed them already, but the biggest advantage I found has not been mentioned. I can transfer recording from Tivo to my PC and Back. I did upgrade to a 1 terabyte drive in the Tivo, but being able to easily move recordings off the Tivo to my PC based storage makes available space on the Tivo a non issue. 

As soon as the free period is up the Verizon Dvr goes back and a new Tivo will take its place.


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