# Letter from Comcast RE: SDV



## jtmal0723

I just received a letter today from Comcast regarding Switched Digital Video and getting an adapter, which reads:



> October 3, 2008
> 
> Dear Valued Customer:
> 
> As a part of a system upgrade in your area this fall, we are introducing an exciting new way of delivering video programming to your home, called Switched Digital Video (SDV).
> 
> Currently our system sends all channels simultaneously, all the time, whether they are being viewed or not. SDV is a two-way video technology that lets us deliver individual channels over our fiber optic network at the moment you tune to them. This new technology will allow us to expand the services we offer our customers, including by providing more high-definition programming and faster internet speeds.
> 
> Because SDV is a two-way interactive technology, you will not be able to view SDV channels using one-way devices such as your TiVo equipment without some additional assistance. To ensure that you will be able use all the features of your TiVo equipment and enjoy all the channels you currently receive, Comcast, in partnership with TiVo, has developed a special tuning adapter to use with your TiVo equipment.
> 
> Starting on October 6, 2008, you can bring this letter to one of your local Comcast payment centers at:
> 
> [centers vary by area]
> 
> where we will give you a tuning adapter at no additional cost. Or, you can call us at 1-800-COMCAST and refer to "the TiVo letter," and we will schedule an appointment for a technician to visit your home to install it for free. Representatives are available by phone 24/7 to assist with any questions you may have.
> 
> Please refer to the FAQ section of this letter for more information on SDV. Remember, you can reach us 24 hours a day, seven days a week at 1-800-COMCAST or chat with us online at www.comcast.com.
> 
> Thank you for being a Comcast customer!


Has anyone else received a letter like this, whether from Comcast or not? It does give a list, that varies by area, of what channels would be affected too... It looks like I'm going down to a payment center on Monday to get an adapter and tell about my experiences installing it. Should be interesting!


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## debtoine

What state are you in? I'll have to ask my friends who have Comcast if they've received a similar letter (where we are, it's Cablevision).

I do hope Cablevision follows Comcast's lead and gives them to us at no additional cost as well.

deb


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## jtmal0723

I'm in the Comcast of Garden State area, which is around Cherry Hill, NJ


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## pin87a

I received the same letter from Comcast (South Jersey / Cherry Hill / Scientific Atlanta area) this morning. 
Came here expecting to see some horror stories involving the 'Tuning Adapters', but was surprised to see none. I guess we are some of the first guinea pigs in this experiment? Uh oh.. Considering how hard it was for Comcast to even get my TiVo working in the first place I can't imagine this is going to go smoothly


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## jtmal0723

We shall see how simple this is, I have an idea how it may work, but I'm unsure myself.


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## Jimbo713

Great! Time Warner could be next (fingers crossed)!


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## rainwater

I like the fact that you can pick it up, thus not requiring a truck roll.


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## ajayabb

Just received my letter today here in Moorestown. I will try to pick 2 up next week...


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## TriBruin

I am just happy to see that Comcast (and hopefully other cable companies) are not hiding the SDV Tuner and actively promoting it.


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## morac

Cherry Hill is one of 2 (3?) SDV test areas. My guess is that they are expanding the test to the entire "Comcast of Garden State" system (Cisco).

I'm in the Burlington System (Motorola) so no SDV for me most likely (for now).


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## mikeyts

RBlount said:


> I am just happy to see that Comcast (and hopefully other cable companies) are not hiding the SDV Tuner and actively promoting it.


They're probably sending that letter out to every CableCARD sub. Why would they "hide" the Tuning Adapter? Distributing it helps them retain TiVo-addicted subs, and to sell them services which they offer primarily as switched broadcasts.


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## jayfest

I also live in South Jersey and got this letter today. I immediately called Comcast and I have a guy coming to my house this Monday (free) to check on the Multi-Stream cable card I have in my TiVo HD. In the meantime, I still seem to be getting signals on my HD from the 100 or so channels the letter said I might lose. I suppose I could have installed this tuning adapter myself, but if they're offering a free service call so promptly, I'll take it.


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## TriBruin

mikeyts said:


> They're probably sending that letter out to every CableCARD sub. Why would they "hide" the Tuning Adapter? Distributing it helps them retain TiVo-addicted subs, and to sell them services which they offer primarily as switched broadcasts.


After all support cable companies gave to install Cablecards in S3s at the beginning, call me cynical.


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## ZeoTiVo

RBlount said:


> After all support cable companies gave to install Cablecards in S3s at the beginning, call me cynical.


Times change and business gets tighter.
What used to be competitors now become loose partners against even more dangerous competitor - eg satellite companies.


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## mikeyts

The entire "Tuning Adapter Initiative", which has required over a year from conception to deliver (pretty high pace for this industry) is designed to help assuage complaints to the FCC by CableCARD-using subs and to fight off the NCTA's "Digital Cable Ready Plus" proposal. If they made it difficult to get, or charged anything more than a nominal fee, the effort would seem disingenuous.


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## husky55

morac said:


> Cherry Hill is one of 2 (3?) SDV test areas. My guess is that they are expanding the test to the entire "Comcast of Garden State" system (Cisco).
> 
> I'm in the Burlington System (Motorola) so no SDV for me most likely (for now).


Any idea if CT is Cisco or Motorola system? All Comcast STB in CT are Motorola, but I don't think Cisco makes STB.

I did not receive any letter from Comcast.


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## dylanemcgregor

husky55 said:


> Any idea if CT is Cisco or Motorola system? All Comcast STB in CT are Motorola, but I don't think Cisco makes STB.
> 
> I did not receive any letter from Comcast.


Cisco bought Scientific Atlantic a while back.


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## bohbot16

husky55 said:


> Any idea if CT is Cisco or Motorola system? All Comcast STB in CT are Motorola, but I don't think Cisco makes STB.


Danbury uses Scientific Atlanta (Cisco) STBs


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## timstack8969

So I'm asuming that if you can pick up your tuning adapter on October 6th they will start using SDV on October 6th??? Does this go for Barrington, NJ?


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## jtmal0723

saying they're available starting the 6th doesn't mean they're going to immediately flip the switch on that day.


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## mikeyts

jtmal0723 said:


> saying they're available starting the 6th doesn't mean they're going to immediately flip the switch on that day.


I'm sure that they have the system set up, though they might not be presenting any services as publicly available switched broadcasts yet. They will have been testing it for months before rolling it out to subs.


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## morac

Cherry Hill is running SDV right now and has been for some time. I'm not sure how hard it is to expand that to the entire Garden State Cable system.


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## jtmal0723

I got my adapter today... It's a Cisco STA1520... I've got it plugged into the tivo now and everything and am going to see what this is all about 

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/19/hands-on-with-the-cisco-tuning-adapter-sta1520/ <= for more info on my adapter
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps9159/ps9195/ps9828/7013834.pdf <= data sheet


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## jtmal0723

It works. The TiVo says it's operational and everything so all is good! Thumbs up to Comcast.


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## MickeS

Good to hear, for all you poor suckers still using cable.


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## skaggs

jtmal0723 said:


> It works. The TiVo says it's operational and everything so all is good! Thumbs up to Comcast.


Nice!:up:


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## rv65

jtmal0723 said:


> It works. The TiVo says it's operational and everything so all is good! Thumbs up to Comcast.


Glad you got yours working. Our Time Warner area uses SDV though they can't get theirs out fast enough. Let's hope they do get them in a timely manner. I too am interested a Tivo.


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## oddlycalm

Nothing yet on the West coast. The Comcast tech support call center had no idea what SDV is let alone what the tuning adapter is. They were nice about it and got back to me, but nada. Looks like you folks in the Northeast are the test market.

oc


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## jhimmel

jtmal0723 said:


> It works. The TiVo says it's operational and everything so all is good! Thumbs up to Comcast.


Congratulations. As far as I know, you are the first (and only) person to deploy a tuning adapter who is not restricted by NDA.

Jim H.


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## mikeyts

jtmal0723 said:


> It works. The TiVo says it's operational and everything so all is good! Thumbs up to Comcast.


Are you certain that there are channels presented as switched digital that you can tune now that you weren't able to tune before? Unlike letters announcing SDV sent out by TWC and Cox, that one didn't seem to list the group of services that they planned to provide as switched broadcasts.


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## bdraw

jtmal0723 said:


> I got my adapter today... It's a Cisco STA1520... I've got it plugged into the tivo now and everything and am going to see what this is all about


Congrats!

Can you email me a picture at ben at engadget?

Thanks


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## jtmal0723

mikeyts said:


> Are you certain that there are channels presented as switched digital that you can tune now that you weren't able to tune before? Unlike letters announcing SDV sent out by TWC and Cox, that one didn't seem to list the group of services that they planned to provide as switched broadcasts.


I would have thought so, but nothing's different yet. I even took the adapter off and the same channels on the SDV list still come in. So the switch wasn't thrown yet.


bdraw said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Can you email me a picture at ben at engadget?
> 
> Thanks


Done

And for everyone else's viewing pleasure, I've attached the same photo.


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## bdraw

Also, did you have to pay extra for it?


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## bdraw

jtmal0723 said:


> I would have thought so, but nothing's different yet. I even took the adapter off and the same channels on the SDV list still come in. So the switch wasn't thrown yet.
> 
> Done
> 
> And for everyone else's viewing pleasure, I've attached the same photo.


Thanks for the picture!
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/06/the-first-tuning-adapter-is-unleashed-by-comcast/


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## Enforcer

Somewhere Baby Jesus is crying because TWC is clueless. Living in an area that has had SDV for a very long time, I had hoped they would roll this out in our area first. Wishfull thinking.


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## davezatz

We need to find out which channels are truly switched and if there's any sort of perceptible lag in "tuning" the station. 

Also, I wonder if jtmal0723 is in an area that used to be a different cable provider?


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## MichaelK

did you have to call in with any numbers to 'activate' it? Or did they link it to your account or anything?

or did it just work without any intervention from comcast?


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## jtmal0723

You won't be charged extra for it, according to the letter. My area used to be provided by Garden State Cable before Comcast bought them out in 2001.



MichaelK said:


> did you have to call in with any numbers to 'activate' it? Or did they link it to your account or anything?
> 
> or did it just work without any intervention from comcast?


If you go down to a payment center to pick one up, they just scan the number on the back of the unit like an ordinary cable box. If comcast comes to your house, then yes they'll have to phone in the numbers to activate it.


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## MichaelK

davezatz said:


> We need to find out which channels are truly switched and if there's any sort of perceptible lag in "tuning" the station.
> 
> Also, I wonder if jtmal0723 is in an area that used to be a different cable provider?


jtmal0723 can give more specifics but in the mean time-
most of NJ was some other differnt provider at one point (it was a complete hodge podge early on) but I believe that system has been comcast for some time now if not always (it's almost right across the Delaware River from the comcast mothership in Philly).

Cherry Hill was one of the 3 SDV test markets if I recall for comcast.

Maybe also union NJ (or maybe that's one of the OCAP markets)- which is about an hour away and separated by a pile of other systems- some from comcast, some cablevision, maybe a time warner.

I'm about an hour (in a slightly differnet direction) and whenever I ask they tell me that they have no plans to ever do sdv here- left hand vs right hand - but we have moto on my system so maybe that's part of it.


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## raianoat

Nice! I can't wait for TWC to start to offer adapters.


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## jayfest

When the Comcast (South Jersey) guy showed up today to install my Tuning Adapter, he informed me that SDV had been turned on already, but not yet for Cable Cards, which is why I have had no problem getting all the channels on my TiVo HD, even without the Adapter. It sounded like the switchover for Cable Cards might be in about a month, so we'll see what happens then.


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## jtmal0723

jayfest said:


> When the Comcast (South Jersey) guy showed up today to install my Tuning Adapter, he informed me that SDV had been turned on already, but not yet for Cable Cards, which is why I have had no problem getting all the channels on my TiVo HD, even without the Adapter. It sounded like the switchover for Cable Cards might be in about a month, so we'll see what happens then.


That, actually, would make a whole lot of sense to be honest...


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## Enforcer

WTF. they gave you a tuning adaptor and you dont even have SDV channels yet? What kind of cruel world is this.....


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## mikesas

jayfest said:


> When the Comcast (South Jersey) guy showed up today to install my Tuning Adapter, he informed me that SDV had been turned on already, but not yet for Cable Cards, which is why I have had no problem getting all the channels on my TiVo HD, even without the Adapter. It sounded like the switchover for Cable Cards might be in about a month, so we'll see what happens then.


Interesting.... maybe I don't fully understand SDV, but that does not seem to make much sense to me. I thought that without SDV, you have an always on pipe with all channels being broadcast at once. Once you take a channel and switch it to SDV, then it is no longer broadcasting all the time until someone from that node requests that channel. And I thought Nodes were geographically divided, so does this mean they are claiming to have only turned on SDV for nodes where there are no customers using cable cards? Maybe they have some of those.

Either way, I sure wish TWC would have provided a solution before turning on SDV. What a novel approach.... OK I am just plain jealous.


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## bdraw

I have a theory about how these things work, can you do a quick test that might confirm it?
All you have to do is plug the USB cable into a PC and see what it is detected as.
I believe it'll be some sort of networking device.
Thanks


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## socrplyr

mikesas said:


> Interesting.... maybe I don't fully understand SDV, but that does not seem to make much sense to me. I thought that without SDV, you have an always on pipe with all channels being broadcast at once. Once you take a channel and switch it to SDV, then it is no longer broadcasting all the time until someone from that node requests that channel. And I thought Nodes were geographically divided, so does this mean they are claiming to have only turned on SDV for nodes where there are no customers using cable cards? Maybe they have some of those.
> 
> Either way, I sure wish TWC would have provided a solution before turning on SDV. What a novel approach.... OK I am just plain jealous.


Obviously what I am about to say is only a guess... I bet what has happened is they used some space to turn on SDV and get it working but continued "linear" service of all channels. This meant at times there were multiple copies of the same channel being sent. Now they they have the tuning adapter they can remove the effectively redundant "linear" channels and use the bandwidth either to provide more channels or possibly to use them for internet access.


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## mikeyts

jayfest said:


> When the Comcast (South Jersey) guy showed up today to install my Tuning Adapter, he informed me that SDV had been turned on already, but not yet for Cable Cards, which is why I have had no problem getting all the channels on my TiVo HD, even without the Adapter. It sounded like the switchover for Cable Cards might be in about a month, so we'll see what happens then.


Sounds like a cable tech who doesn't know what he's talking about .

Of course, it could be a situation like we had here, where they had some of the digital simulcast of the basic and extended basic tiers set up as SDV services for final testing before they turned on the main deployment of SDV. By definition, all of the simulcast channels are broadcast as both analog and digital, and in our system unidirectional CableCARD tuners were mapped to the analog versions of those channels. As I recall, Sci Fi was one of the channels they tested SDV with and leased STB users were complaining of sometimes getting "Channel temporarily unavailable--try again later" messages.


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## Dr_Zoidberg

Isn't PPV on SDV? 

Do those channels even come up? 

On my Cablevision, there are a number of available HD SDV channels that just don't come up on my HD TiVo, but do with the S2 TiVo because it's connected to a cable box.


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## weaknees

Very cool!

Can you possibly post or email me a picture of the back? Michael at Weaknees . . .

Thanks!


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## hungarianhc

Hmmm I'm a bit confused - I thought this was just supposed to be a little dongle we plug into our TiVo. This looks like another cable box. Can you post a pic of this next to your TiVo HD? I'm curious to see just how big this thing is...


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## davezatz

hungarianhc said:


> Hmmm I'm a bit confused - I thought this was just supposed to be a little dongle we plug into our TiVo. This looks like another cable box. Can you post a pic of this next to your TiVo HD? I'm curious to see just how big this thing is...


Both the Motorola and SciAtl/Cisco models re-use their smallest digital cable box enclosures. We've known this for awhile. I've got some pics from May here (and below).



















I'm most interested in tuning speed and wondering how these are provisioned. TiVo's got a FAQ here.


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## Dennis Wilkinson

Interesting. TiVo's FAQ seems to imply that if you have a tuning adapter but no CableCARDs, you'll get the right channel mapping for all the unencrypted/not-copy-protected channels (which on most systems includes all the OTA HD content they retransmit.)


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## jtmal0723

bdraw said:


> I have a theory about how these things work, can you do a quick test that might confirm it?
> All you have to do is plug the USB cable into a PC and see what it is detected as.
> I believe it'll be some sort of networking device.
> Thanks


I plugged it into a Vista computer with Media Center installed for the hell of it, and it comes up as an Unidentified device - Tuning Resolver, and asks for the drivers, of which, of course, I don't have.

As for a picture of the back of it, I can happily grab you one tonight if you need it.


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## aine

How big is this thing? From the photo, it looks pretty large. And I wonder how much power it consumes.

CableCARD was supposed to allow me to get rid of a big ugly, power sucking, cable box. Alas.


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## moyekj

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Interesting. TiVo's FAQ seems to imply that if you have a tuning adapter but no CableCARDs, you'll get the right channel mapping for all the unencrypted/not-copy-protected channels (which on most systems includes all the OTA HD content they retransmit.)


 Yes I speculated about exactly this a long while ago in the various unencrypted QAM threads as a potential solution to the channel mapping issue. One question remaining is if non-CableCard Tivo Series3 customers will be able to get hold of a TA if they want...


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## classicX

I'm still shocked that they aren't charging for it.


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## jtmal0723

moyekj said:


> Yes I speculated about exactly this a long while ago in the various unencrypted QAM threads as a potential solution to the channel mapping issue. One question remaining is if non-CableCard Tivo Series3 customers will be able to get hold of a TA if they want...


I doubt it, the rep at the Comcast payment center looked to make sure I had CableCARDs before she went into the back to get an adapter for me.


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## skaggs

moyekj said:


> One question remaining is if non-CableCard Tivo Series3 customers will be able to get hold of a TA if they want...


Maybe they will rent you one for the cost of a STB.


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## mikeyts

aine said:


> How big is this thing? From the photo, it looks pretty large. And I wonder how much power it consumes.
> 
> CableCARD was supposed to allow me to get rid of a big ugly, power sucking, cable box. Alas.


Cisco's specsheet for the STA1520 gives it's dimensions as 11.75"x8"x1.75"--that would give it a similar footprint to a sheet of paper (.75" longer, .5" less wide). Obviously they could be smaller (Moto's is much smaller), but they cobbled these things together using as many pieces of other in-production parts as they could to bring them in at a dirt-low price--the cable providers need to offer them to customers at little to no cost. Custom industrial design and enclosure manufacturing would add to the cost.

I sincerely doubt that it draws much power. I don't much care how big it is--I'll probably tuck it behind my equipment cabinet on the floor. It has no exterior controls or IR command sensor, so there's no reason for it to be visible.


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## moyekj

jtmal0723 said:


> I doubt it, the rep at the Comcast payment center looked to make sure I had CableCARDs before she went into the back to get an adapter for me.


 Perhaps one can still sneak one out if you happen to have CableCard(s) for 1 Tivo in the house but not another...


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## weaknees

jtmal0723 said:


> As for a picture of the back of it, I can happily grab you one tonight if you need it.


That would be great!


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## weaknees

Sorry - didn't see that picture on the Comcast site, but there IS a picture of the back here.

But thanks in any event . . .


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## mikeyts

jtmal0723, can you confirm that the back panel appears essentially the same as in Cisco's specsheet (which has a warning that it might not look that way in real life )?


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## jtmal0723

mikeyts said:


> jtmal0723, can you confirm that the back panel appears essentially the same as in Cisco's specsheet (which has a warning that it might not look that way in real life )?


That's what it looks like, I can confirm that.


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## morac

jayfest said:


> When the Comcast (South Jersey) guy showed up today to install my Tuning Adapter, he informed me that SDV had been turned on already, but not yet for Cable Cards, which is why I have had no problem getting all the channels on my TiVo HD, even without the Adapter. It sounded like the switchover for Cable Cards might be in about a month, so we'll see what happens then.


I though that the Tuning Adapter downloads its own channel list separate from the Cable Cards. If so then Comcast could leave the channels off the cableCARD listing and the TA would pick them up so only people with the TA would even see them listed.


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## jtmal0723

morac said:


> I though that the Tuning Adapter downloads its own channel list separate from the Cable Cards. If so then Comcast could leave the channels off the cableCARD listing and the TA would pick them up so only people with the TA would even see them listed.


I hope it's that simple :/


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## MichaelK

jtmal0723 said:


> I doubt it, the rep at the Comcast payment center looked to make sure I had CableCARDs before she went into the back to get an adapter for me.


did she take any info from the tuning adapters (like serial number or mac address or something) and add it to your account?


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## rainwater

MichaelK said:


> did she take any info from the tuning adapters (like serial number or mac address or something) and add it to your account?


He said earlier in this thread that they scanned the box so presumably it was attached to the account this way.


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## astrohip

aine said:


> How big is this thing? From the photo, it looks pretty large.
> CableCARD was supposed to allow me to get rid of a big ugly, power sucking, cable box. Alas.





mikeyts said:


> Cisco's specsheet for the STA1520[/url] gives it's dimensions as 11.75"x8"x1.75"


Wow, it's a monster. I too thought we'd be getting a dongle of some sort. But this is another piece of video equipment.

I have an incredibly simple setup. A TiVo S3 below the HDTV. Mounted on the wall, wires hidden, clean, stark.

No more.


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## mikeyts

astrohip said:


> Wow, it's a monster. I too thought we'd be getting a dongle of some sort. But this is another piece of video equipment.
> 
> I have an incredibly simple setup. A TiVo S3 below the HDTV. Mounted on the wall, wires hidden, clean, stark.
> 
> No more.


Hey, you can always eschew use of the Tuning Adapter and settle for the non-switched services in your system, maintaining clean, sparse estethics of your setup. Again, I could care less how big it is as long as I get back the channels I've lost access to.


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## rv65

astrohip said:


> Wow, it's a monster. I too thought we'd be getting a dongle of some sort. But this is another piece of video equipment.
> 
> I have an incredibly simple setup. A TiVo S3 below the HDTV. Mounted on the wall, wires hidden, clean, stark.
> 
> No more.


No IR receiver so you could be creative and find a way to hide this. The one for Motorola networks is much smaller. That one is the size of a Cable modem. This one is big but again no IR receiver. Then again you have to have a cisco network in order to use this one.


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## jtmal0723

rv65 said:


> Then again you have to have a cisco network in order to use this one.


Please elaborate on this, because it's too vague a statement. If you're referring to SciAtl cablecards, then yes, that is true.


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## rv65

jtmal0723 said:


> Please elaborate on this, because it's too vague a statement. If you're referring to SciAtl cablecards, then yes, that is true.


Yes I am referring to using this only on cisco networks. The Cisco models are designed for SA/Cisco Headends while the Motorola one works on Motorola headends. This applies to both Cable Cards and the tuning resolver.


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## Jimbo713

Please! TWC in San Antonio - Are there any TWC/San Antonio employees reading this forum? I can't get a whisper out of the local office, but do have written confirmation from TWC Corporate lawyers that the tuning resolver is coming by the end of the year. You'd think that somebody in the local office would see something coming down the road soon.


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## ajayabb

Just installed my 2 Cisco Tuning adapters today. Just more wires to deal with. Coax in/Coax out USB Cable to Tivo and Power Supply Cable. Would have been nice if they had supplied an extra Coax to run to the Tivo, but then again, the units were free.


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## weaknees

ajayabb said:


> Just installed my 2 Cisco Tuning adapters today. Just more wires to deal with. Coax in/Coax out USB Cable to Tivo and Power Supply Cable. Would have been nice if they had supplied an extra Coax to run to the Tivo, but then again, the units were free.


I was assuming they'd include a coax patch cable - pretty surprising that they don't. I guess that they expect it to be installed by the cable guy, who can just make a patch cable on-site.


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## Corran Horn

ajayabb said:


> Just installed my 2 Cisco Tuning adapters today. Just more wires to deal with. Coax in/Coax out USB Cable to Tivo and Power Supply Cable. Would have been nice if they had supplied an extra Coax to run to the Tivo, but then again, the units were free.


Is that 2 per Tivo? 1 for each CableCard?


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## jtmal0723

Corran Horn said:


> Is that 2 per Tivo? 1 for each CableCard?


No. You only need 1 adapter per TiVo.


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## ewilts

aine said:


> And I wonder how much power it consumes.


15w max according to http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps9159/ps9195/ps9828/7013834.pdf

.../Ed


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## mikeyts

You guys who have these things--TiVo added a Tuning Adapter menu item under Messages & Settings->Account & System Information. What do you see when access this? If you can post some pictures of the dialog or dialogs displayed as you walk through that section, I'm sure that we're all curious . (If you can't post pictures, describe it as thoroughly as possible).

Thanks!


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## jtmal0723

Here are some screenshots... The test channels pages are exactly the same as they are for the test channels for cablecards.... The Tuning Adapter Diagnostics page has waaaaaaay too many pages for me to screenshot them all, and the max attachment upload here is 3 images. I hope these images help.


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## mikeyts

jtmal0723 said:


> Here are some screenshots... The test channels pages are exactly the same as they are for the test channels for cablecards.... The Tuning Adapter Diagnostics page has waaaaaaay too many pages for me to screenshot them all, and the max attachment upload here is 3 images. I hope these images help.


Thanks for taking the time to collect and post those.


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## [email protected]

ewilts said:


> 15w max according to http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps9159/ps9195/ps9828/7013834.pdf
> 
> .../Ed


With a more efficient design, the tuning adapters would be able to run on standard USB power, eliminating wiring clutter while being greener. Maybe the next generation of TAs will do this.

And, because the tuning adapter is two way, it should have the ability to automate the cable card pairing process. But from what I read into the TiVo FAQ, this also may have to wait.

And while I am wishing for features, why does each box need a dedicated TA? If you have multiple TiVos on a LAN, they can talk to each other and can potentially share a TA just like my computer shares its USB connected printer.


----------



## OneGr8Mick

how come when I call 1800 comcast and reference the tivo letter they have no idea what a tuning adapter or a tivo letter is


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## jtmal0723

It would depend on where you are. Right now, they are testing it in certain areas. It's possible that the specific call center might not know anything about it yet or something. I have no idea.


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## OneGr8Mick

but 1800 comcast is a national number, and I called from a nj area code phone.


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## jtmal0723

I really don't have an answer to that. I never called for a truckroll, I just went down to the payment center in the letter itself and requested it.


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## OneGr8Mick

I would love to try that but from where I am its an hour drive to the equipment center and not in the mood to make it for nill


----------



## rainwater

OneGr8Mick said:


> I would love to try that but from where I am its an hour drive to the equipment center and not in the mood to make it for nill


You need to get a hold of someone local. The national number isn't going to be of much help.


----------



## mikeyts

OneGr8Mick said:


> I would love to try that but from where I am its an hour drive to the equipment center and not in the mood to make it for nill


Did you receive the letter?


----------



## rv65

http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanAntonio/Products/Cable/sdv/order_sdv.html

If you are in San Antonio you can now preorder this device. It will plug in via Coax and USB. Uses a regular USB printer cable though they may give you one. It probably uses a power brick. If you have one of those stylish setups where aesthetics are important then you could find a way to integrate it. You might have to go to guided setup again. The order form does require a truck roll even though it could be installed yourself. Hope this helps.


----------



## jtmal0723

rv65 said:


> http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanAntonio/Products/Cable/sdv/order_sdv.html
> 
> If you are in San Antonio you can now preorder this device. It will plug in via Coax and USB. Uses a regular USB printer cable though they may give you one. It probably uses a power brick. If you have one of those stylish setups where aesthetics are important then you could find a way to integrate it. You might have to go to guided setup again. The order form does require a truck roll even though it could be installed yourself. Hope this helps.


You do not have to go through guided setup again, you just have to reboot your TiVo


----------



## mattack

morac said:


> I though that the Tuning Adapter downloads its own channel list separate from the Cable Cards. If so then Comcast could leave the channels off the cableCARD listing and the TA would pick them up so only people with the TA would even see them listed.


Wouldn't this mean that we could get the tuning adapter and NOT cablecards, and get all channels?


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## jtmal0723

mattack said:


> Wouldn't this mean that we could get the tuning adapter and NOT cablecards, and get all channels?


No.


----------



## mattack

jtmal0723 said:


> No.


Actually, I think the answer is yes, at least according to Saxion's post at 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6753836#post6753836
and the following one.


----------



## jtmal0723

mattack said:


> Actually, I think the answer is yes, at least according to Saxion's post at
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6753836#post6753836
> and the following one.


If that does turn out to be the case, then someone needs to test this and find out if this is true. As far as I know, the TiVo does not tune through the adapter, it tunes through the CableCARDs. A CableCARD is a decoder, a tuning adapter is not. All the adapter does is send a signal to the cable company that you want to watch a specific switched channel. CableCARDs alone are not capable of this.


----------



## mikeyts

I posted this today in the SDV FAQ thread. TiVo's SDV support page (here) has been recently beefed up. Of particular interest is this, from the "TiVo upgrades and exchanges section:


> ...you can connect the Tuning Adapter to your new DVR and it will be operational immediately. All channels that are not copy protected, including SDV channels, will be visible.
> 
> You will still need to call your cable provider to get the CableCARD(s) paired to your new DVR before you can view copy-protected channels.


...which implies that TiVo can use the channel map in the TA just like it uses the CableCARD maps, even without CableCARDs plugged in. That's the capability that people who want to use TiVo to tune and record digital channels in their basic cable subscription without using CableCARDs.

Problems with this: TAs only work in systems that have deployed SDV; you can only get TAs from your system operator (even if you could get one from someone else, only your cable SO can authorize it to work); it seems unlikely to me that any cable SO would simply give these out for free to people without TiVos with one or more leased CableCARDs, and if you're leasing CableCARDs, you don't need this to get the channel mappings.


----------



## jtmal0723

mikeyts said:


> I posted this today in the SDV FAQ thread. TiVo's SDV support page (here) has been recently beefed up. Of particular interest is this, from the "TiVo upgrades and exchanges section:
> ...which implies that TiVo can use the channel map in the TA just like it uses the CableCARD maps, even without CableCARDs plugged in. That's the capability that people who want to use TiVo to tune and record digital channels in their basic cable subscription without using CableCARDs.
> 
> Problems with this: TAs only work in systems that have deployed SDV; you can only get TAs from your system operator (even if you could get one from someone else, only your cable SO can authorize it to work); it seems unlikely to me that any cable SO would simply give these out for free to people without TiVos with one or more leased CableCARDs, and if you're leasing CableCARDs, you don't need this to get the channel mappings.


Are you trying to say don't get the adapter if I have CableCARDs? Because I will lose a lot of channels that I regularly watch if I don't utilize the adapter... If I choose to use the adapter instead of the CableCARDs, then I won't be able to tune HBO, Showtime, TMC, Cinemax, Starz, Encore, or a few other channels because they're copy protected.


----------



## mikeyts

jtmal0723 said:


> Are you trying to say don't get the adapter if I have CableCARDs? Because I will lose a lot of channels that I regularly watch if I don't utilize the adapter... If I choose to use the adapter instead of the CableCARDs, then I won't be able to tune HBO, Showtime, TMC, Cinemax, Starz, Encore, or a few other channels because they're copy protected.


No--I'm not trying to say that at all. (I can't see where you derive that from what I said).

I was responding to the issue that mattack and morac are talking about. People try to use TiVo to tune and record the digital channels on their cable system which are included in the core basic service tier, like the rebroadcast of local over-the-air DTV stations. These channels aren't encrypted so they don't require a CableCARD for decryption (this is primarily what CableCARDs do--they don't "tune" anything). TiVo's guide service doesn't support this, mostly because the cable providers are free to change the QAM carrier and program number of these channels and some providers occasionally do, so TiVo can't be certain of where it can tune them. Users who object to having to pay the monthly CableCARD charge when all they want are the channels that they could typically tune with the QAM tuners in their televisions have been banging on TiVo to figure out some way to support these channels in the guide. They can tune these channels without CableCARD, if they can figure out where they are, using their "natural" channel number (a channel whose virtual number is 8-1 might be present on the cable system as 79-3); I myself have done this. However, the channels won't appear in the guide and you therefore can't use Season Passes, etc with them.

What these people are saying is that the Tuning Adapter will work as a substitute for CableCARDs for their limited purposes, and since the cable providers are handing them out for free, why can't they just get one of them? I'm doubting that the cable providers will give them to people who aren't using CableCARDs in their TiVos. I could be wrong.

So far, my provider hasn't taken any core basic tier stuff and presented it as SDV and I doubt that many of them will. In generally, switched broadcasts will be in some kind of pay tier (expanded basic at a minimum) and will require a CableCARD to decrypt. If you're not going to tune switched broadcasts, why should they give you a TA?


----------



## jtmal0723

> So far, my provider hasn't taken any core basic tier stuff and presented it as SDV and I doubt that many of them will. In generally, switched broadcasts will be in some kind of pay tier (expanded basic at a minimum) and will require a CableCARD to decrypt. If you're not going to tune switched broadcasts, why should they give you a TA?


Ohhhh ok. Fair enough. But yeah, if you don't have CableCARDs, Comcast won't give you a box. She literally checked my account, after I gave her my phone number, and she went and saw I had CableCARD Digital (that's what CableCARDs show up as on the bill) so she went into the back and got a box for me. No charge.


----------



## mikeyts

The way that Comcast has things set up, anyone using CableCARDs could get one of these things and they'll only work with TiVos. I'll bet that one reason why TWC is requiring a truck roll is to make sure that you actually have a TiVo.


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## jtmal0723

I have taken pictures of the Cisco STA1520, all sides, top and bottom if anyone's interested: http://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/jtmal0723/tuning_resolver/


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## rv65

http://www.timewarnercable.com/centraltx/Products/Cable/sdv/default.html

If you are an austin Tivo HD, Series3, or HD XL owner then get on the pre order list. Yes a Truckroll is needed but probably for verification.


----------



## morac

OneGr8Mick said:


> but 1800 comcast is a national number, and I called from a nj area code phone.


When you call the 1800 number you are just as likely to end up speaking to someone in a call center in Florida or Texas or some other state as you are to one in NJ. Comcast doesn't care where you are calling from.


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## djones18

JTMAL0723:

Congratulations and thanks for taking the time to post your results. You are literally the first person in the U.S. who has received a TA to respond in the TIVO forum. The thirst for information on this subject is immense and you will be bombarded with questions as thousands of us wait for the TA to be offered by our cable company. We request your patience and indulgence.

Discussion, debate and speculation has been raging for more than a year in the TIVO Community over when and how this TA would be implemented and distributed. We're finally getting some hard facts. I look forward to your continued postings on how this TA is working out on your system. .

Suggestion to Forum Administrator: Now that the Tuning Adapter is finally being deployed, a single Sticky Thread dedicated to TA deployment and implementation should be started as I count at least three long threads in two forums which directly cover this issue.

Cheers.

D Jones
TIVO owner from day one.


----------



## Budget_HT

morac said:


> When you call the 1800 number you are just as likely to end up speaking to someone in a call center in Florida or Texas or some other state as you are to one in NJ. Comcast doesn't care where you are calling from.


My understanding is that 1-800-COMCAST is set up to deliver calls geographically to the closest call center having agents available to take calls.

When we call 1-800-COMCAST from here (near Seattle) we almost always reach one of two call centers in the Seattle metro area. When my son calls from Vancouver, WA, (near Portland, OR) he usually reaches a call center in Beaverton, OR (also near Portland).

I would expect this call routing approach would be nation-wide, but I could be wrong.


----------



## morac

Budget_HT said:


> My understanding is that 1-800-COMCAST is set up to deliver calls geographically to the closest call center having agents available to take calls.


That could be possible in your area and it was true in my area a few years ago, but now calls in my area are just randomly routed since all the call centers have access to your info.

For example, there is a call center in Voorhees, NJ which is approximately 10 to 15 miles away from where I live. Years ago when I called the 1800 number I used to get directed there or to Canada if it was late at night. Now when I call I usually end up talking to someone in the Florida or Texas call center. Every now and then I end up talking to someone in Voorhees, but it is a rare occurrence.

There's still no way to actually talk to someone in my local office other than driving there.


----------



## Hystyk28

I picked mine up earlier this week in NJ and I have a green blinking light which says I may have a problem with the TA. Go figure. If they haven't thrown the switch yet, could the TA not be ready to actually work?


----------



## jtmal0723

Hystyk28 said:


> I picked mine up earlier this week in NJ and I have a green blinking light which says I may have a problem with the TA. Go figure. If they haven't thrown the switch yet, could the TA not be ready to actually work?


Once you power on and plug in the adapter, you gotta reboot the TiVo. If the light is still blinking, call Comcast to have another signal sent to your house. If that doesn't work, they didn't properly add the adapter to your account and it's not authorized to work for you. You may have to take it to comcast to get it paired to your account or have a truckroll come out to do so...

I had the same problem until I rebooted the TiVo, the green light went solid once I did. It usually means it's looking for communication from the UDCP enabled device.


----------



## QZ1

morac said:


> There's still no way to actually talk to someone in my local office other than driving there.


There isn't? How about calling the local Comcast phone number?


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## morac

QZ1 said:


> There isn't? How about calling the local Comcast phone number?


In my area calling that number automatically redirects to the 1800 number.

There are "secret" numbers you can call to reach local techs and I know a few of them, but unless they are expecting your call they won't answer.


----------



## jtmal0723

morac said:


> In my area calling that number automatically redirects to the 1800 number.
> 
> There are "secret" numbers you can call to reach local techs and I know a few of them, but unless they are expecting your call they won't answer.


In my area, Calling the old Garden State Cable number brings up my local office, the 1800 number brings up the national center.


----------



## CharlesH

mattack said:


> Wouldn't this mean that we could get the tuning adapter and NOT cablecards, and get all channels?


While both the tuning adapter and the cable cards provide channel maps, only the cable cards can decrypt encrypted channels (pretty much anything beyond basic service).


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## jlb

CharlesH said:


> While both the tuning adapter and the cable cards provide channel maps, only the cable cards can decrypt encrypted channels (pretty much anything beyond basic service).


This helps some people like me. I am just on Comcast's lifeline service for $10/mo. I have my M cable card just so I can get guide data. Now, for me, the TA doesn't add much of anything since my M card is free. But if I had to pay $5/mo or more for the card, I would want a TA. So, sure, maybe they roll a truck to verify you have a TiVo or even CCs, but once that is done and all is set up, why couldn't you just return the CCs and have them removed from your account?


----------



## mikeyts

jlb said:


> This helps some people like me. I am just on Comcast's lifeline service for $10/mo. I have my M cable card just so I can get guide data. Now, for me, the TA doesn't add much of anything since my M card is free. But if I had to pay $5/mo or more for the card, I would want a TA. So, sure, maybe they roll a truck to verify you have a TiVo or even CCs, but once that is done and all is set up, why couldn't you just return the CCs and have them removed from your account?


If I were a cable provider, I'd link having a TA with having one or more CableCARDs, and if you returned your CC's, I'd ask for the TA back and wouldn't accept return of the CableCARD(s) without it. Hell, I'd insist that you actually subscribe to switched channels to be issued a TA and remain subscribed in order to keep it--no one with lifeline basic would get one. The cable providers aren't charity organizations; they may be distributing TAs at no charge, but they're doing it to make money. They're pissing off TiVo-using subs who are losing access to extra-cost subscription channels and they're distributing these things out as a courtesy to keep those customer's business.

It's worth a try, though. Cable providers aren't the most organized service organizations and some (or all ) of them might not figure out all of the angles.


----------



## angel35

dylanemcgregor said:


> Cisco bought Scientific Atlantic a while back.


Cisco makes cable boxs. they are 8550, 8552,8450 I think TWC will have them soon???


----------



## mikeyts

angel35 said:


> Cisco makes cable boxs. they are 8550, 8552,8450 I think TWC will have them soon???


The division of Cisco which used to be SA makes those boxes, as part of the continuing "Explorer" line of a cable subscriber set top boxes. I'm fairly certain that TWC isn't going to get into the equipment manufacturing business (unless you have a pointer to some information that I've missed).

The market for STBs is going to bust wide open with the advent of <tru2way> compliant products. Companies like Panasonic and Sony, who've been trying unsuccessfully for years to bust the SA/Moto duopoly on cable set tops, are finally going to get some play.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

mikeyts said:


> . Companies like Panasonic and Sony, who've been trying unsuccessfully for years to bust the SA/Moto duopoly on cable set tops, are finally going to get some play.


yep, and to heck with their boxes, I hope to be able to get a flat panel TV with tru2way and networking features for other media.
Use that in conjunction with my TiVo HD or series 4 and all is good


----------



## husky55

mikeyts said:


> Did you receive the letter?


Did anybody from CT receive this letter? I did not not.


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## jlb

Let me ask the folks here this........

If I tune direct on my TV, I can receive CMT as part of my lifeline package. When I try to tune with the TiVo (by entering the channel #) regardless of if I have checked the channel on the "channels I receive", I cannot receive CMT.

Does this mean they are using SDV on CMT? If it wasn't SDV and it was "encrypted", I would at least see snow, or some other interference, right? I get nothing on CMT (22).

If it is in fact SDV, I may actually seek out a TA as I would like to be able to receive CMT for nothing else but the Crossroads programs.


----------



## slowbiscuit

mikeyts said:


> The market for STBs is going to bust wide open with the advent of <tru2way> compliant products. Companies like Panasonic and Sony, who've been trying unsuccessfully for years to bust the SA/Moto duopoly on cable set tops, are finally going to get some play.


We can only hope, but I'm not holding my breath. Anyone can sell Cablecard STBs to consumers today, but no one has done so. Could be because of lack of OnDemand/PPV support with the current one-way devices (although Cablecards support two-way now), could be because the cableCos have backroom deals with SA/Moto to keep them from selling boxes, could be because they don't see a market and the support hassles that go with CCs. Who knows.


----------



## mikeyts

slowbiscuit said:


> We can only hope, but I'm not holding my breath. Anyone can sell Cablecard STBs to consumers today, but no one has done so. Could be because of lack of OnDemand/PPV support with the current one-way devices (although Cablecards support two-way now), could be because the cableCos have backroom deals with SA/Moto to keep them from selling boxes, could be because they don't see a market and the support hassles that go with CCs. Who knows.


It's the <tru2way> thing: CableCARD (in the future, DCAS) plus OCAP. The cable providers are moving towards OCAP IPGs, Time Warner's buggy (but improving) OCAP Digital Navigator being the first. Any retail <tru2way> product can have Time Warner's IPG downloaded into it, giving it a UI identical in appearance and functionality to any box leased by TWC. (I feel certain that TiVo is porting the work that they did for the optional Comcast IPG to OCAP).

Any compliant <tru2way> STB can be sold both to the cable providers for lease and to the public at retail. Given equally good implementations of <tru2way>, there's no reason for a provider to prefer a Cisco or Moto box over a Sony one, except for price. The cable STB market becomes a level playing field.

Moreover, as ZeoTiVo points out, <tru2way> compliance can be integrated into televisions. I can forsee televisions which become DVRs just by connecting an off-the-shelf external drive.

You don't have to hold your breath, but it is happening, and what's more, the cable service providers are actively promoting it. I recently found this page at TWC San Diego's site which talks about upcoming "Open Cable Products":


> *Open Cable Products* are two-way capable just like Time Warner Cables leased set top boxes and allow access to ALL of Time Warner Cables one-way and two-way services. We expect Open Cable Products to be available at retail in 2008.


----------



## mikeyts

jlb said:


> Let me ask the folks here this........
> 
> If I tune direct on my TV, I can receive CMT as part of my lifeline package. When I try to tune with the TiVo (by entering the channel #) regardless of if I have checked the channel on the "channels I receive", I cannot receive CMT.
> 
> Does this mean they are using SDV on CMT? If it wasn't SDV and it was "encrypted", I would at least see snow, or some other interference, right? I get nothing on CMT (22).
> 
> If it is in fact SDV, I may actually seek out a TA as I would like to be able to receive CMT for nothing else but the Crossroads programs.


It's possible that CMT has been mapped to a digital simulcast of the channel in the CableCARD(s) in your TiVo and that that simulcast has recently become an SDV service (whereas the analog version of the channel remains present on the wire and that's what you get when you directly tune it with your television). Back in February I moved from a Cox neighborhood into a Time Warner one. Cox had mapped my CableCARDs to the digital simulcast versions of the analog range channels, which caused a few minor difficulties (all of those channels were marked "Copy One Generation", for one thing, so I couldn't use TTG to transfer recordings of them). Time Warner maps CableCARDs to the analog version, probably because they planned to change some or all of the simulcast to SDV (I know from other people's reports that they have).

You should complain to your cable provider. Of course, if the problem is what I think it is, getting a resolution is unlikely, since you're not likely to get to talk to anyone who could understand the problem or do anything about it.


----------



## jlb

Eh, doesn't mean that much too me.


----------



## jtmal0723

Well it looks like comcast has flipped that switch for my area... 63 channels the TA knows are on SDV. I don't notice any delay, and when I pull the plug on the TA, those channels are "Temporarily Unavailable". Looks like the TA is doing its job!


----------



## DeathRider

slowbiscuit said:


> We can only hope, but I'm not holding my breath. Anyone can sell Cablecard STBs to consumers today, but no one has done so. Could be because of lack of OnDemand/PPV support with the current one-way devices (although Cablecards support two-way now), could be because the cableCos have backroom deals with SA/Moto to keep them from selling boxes, could be because they don't see a market and the support hassles that go with CCs. Who knows.


They are all set. They have a STB that has CableCard, OpenCable/Tru2Way.

I could see a market (but could it be caost effective?)to sell to people that want to keep their own box, have a larger capacity hard drive than what is supplied by the Cable Company.

But I guess I can't see them competing against themselves and getting the Cable Companies P'oed to boot

And that doesn't even take into consideration who provides the scheduling? Will the Cable Company or the STB manufacturer?


----------



## moyekj

jtmal0723 said:


> Well it looks like comcast has flipped that switch for my area... 63 channels the TA knows are on SDV. I don't notice any delay, and when I pull the plug on the TA, those channels are "Temporarily Unavailable". Looks like the TA is doing its job!


 Thanks for the update. Where exactly do you find out which channels are SDV? Part of a TA diagnostic menu somewhere? A screenshot would be great. Thanks for blazing this trail!


----------



## mikeyts

DeathRider said:


> And that doesn't even take into consideration who provides the scheduling? Will the Cable Company or the STB manufacturer?


Oh, no--you still have to buy stuff from the cable provider. The cable provider will download their IPG software into your tru2way compliant device, and provide the guide information and other things. I'm sure that they'll make you pay something for that.

The example that I gave before is TWC's Digital Navigator, an OCAP version of which they have running on some of their newer leased boxes (Cisco Explorer 8300HDC, 8240HDC, 4250HDC, etc). If you buy a tru2way compliant television or STB, when you hook it up to Time Warner they'd download that IPG software into the equipment that you own and you'll see exactly the same thing that you'd see on one of their leased boxes--precisely the same graphics and all the same guide information. The advantage is that you'd have full access to all of their services, Video On Demand, Pay-Per-View and fancy switched sports tiers included. This disadvantage is that every tru2way compliant device plugged into their system would present the same GUI and that the manufacturers wouldn't be able to distinguish themselves with superior software (like the TiVo IPG).

TiVo has proposed a tru2way compliant model to OpenCable, which they describe in an ex parte filing with the FCC. As proposed, such a device:


> would have a TiVo mode displaying all linear channels (including switched digital video enabled by OCAP) with the TiVo user interface and full DVR functionality as well as a cable mode running OCAP and displaying all cable programming services with the cable user interface without DVR functionality.


So, in "TiVo mode" we'd get the GUI that we all know and love, with downloaded support for SDV tuning and in "cable mode" you'd get the cable provider's IPG GUI, with full access to their interactive services.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Tivo mode vs. cable mode? How silly is that? Just give me one interface (Tivo's) that can get everything. It's not that complicated, but I'm guessing that this is more about forcing what the cableCo wants on the customer instead of what the customer wants to see.

So now we'll get to see the cableCo's ads in addition to Tivo's?


----------



## ZeoTiVo

slowbiscuit said:


> Tivo mode vs. cable mode? How silly is that? Just give me one interface (Tivo's) that can get everything. It's not that complicated, but I'm guessing that this is more about forcing what the cableCo wants on the customer instead of what the customer wants to see.
> 
> So now we'll get to see the cableCo's ads in addition to Tivo's?


yah, it is really not that silly for a cable company to want to be able to present its own interface for selling its own PPV/VOD. I myself like this approach as VOD from cable companies gets better and includes much more free stuff.

Certainly much better than having only the cable company interface


----------



## mikeyts

ZeoTiVo said:


> yah, it is really not that silly for a cable company to want to be able to present its own interface for selling its own PPV/VOD. I myself like this approach as VOD from cable companies gets better and includes much more free stuff.
> 
> Certainly much better than having only the cable company interface


That's what TiVo is trying to avoid--what the cable companies want is their interface only. Some of the CE OEMs lobbied the FCC to force them to provide a simplified, barebones protocol for access to some of their basic interactive services (PPV, VOD and SDV) which they called "Digital Cable Ready Plus"; if the FCC decided to force cable to implement something like that, TiVo and the others would have what they need to create their own interface to PPV and VOD. There's not much hope for DCR+, since the cable companies implemented the Tuning Adapter to partially address SDV tuning for devices too far in the low-end to include tru2way compliance, and romanced the biggest of the DCR+ supporters (Sony included) to "the dark side" by getting them to sign an interactive cable MOU (Memo Of Understanding) in support of tru2way.

With that proposal, TiVo is trying to give you both their interface and an interactive cable product. As it stands, they can't implement a two-way CableCARD product without including OCAP in such a way that the only interface that you would get is whatever the cable providers gives you. I haven't read anywhere that the cable industry has agreed to this compromise, which really doesn't buy them anything (which is why TiVo made that filing to try to get the FCC on their side).

The cable companies want _every_ two-way interactive cable device to give their subscribers access to _all_ of their services--not just PPV and VOD. They envision a brave new future of interactive television  (see this for details). They could care less whether we have the TiVo interface as we know it (though some of them may offer "TiVo Lite" as an IPG option).


----------



## mikeyts

moyekj said:


> jtmal0723 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well it looks like comcast has flipped that switch for my area... 63 channels the TA knows are on SDV. I don't notice any delay, and when I pull the plug on the TA, those channels are "Temporarily Unavailable". Looks like the TA is doing its job!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update. Where exactly do you find out which channels are SDV? Part of a TA diagnostic menu somewhere? A screenshot would be great. Thanks for blazing this trail!
Click to expand...

I second this ask for information. I'd love to know what method TiVo gives you for determining what's SDV and what's not.


----------



## cableguy763

mikeyts said:


> I second this ask for information. I'd love to know what method TiVo gives you for determining what's SDV and what's not.


In an SA system it's built into the sam service for each channel.


----------



## mikeyts

cableguy763 said:


> In an SA system it's built into the sam service for each channel.


What I and moyekj are asking for is a description of how jtmal0723 was able to see through the TiVo GUI which services on his cable system were being provided as SDV. He said that there are "63 channels the TA knows are on SDV". What does he see through the TiVo interface that lets him know that?


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## cableguy763

mikeyts said:


> What I and moyekj are asking for is a description of how jtmal0723 was able to see through the TiVo GUI which services on his cable system were being provided as SDV. He said that there are "63 channels the TA knows are on SDV". What does he see through the TiVo interface that lets him know that?


The ta should show the number of sdv channels in its diags just like a regular cable box does.


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## jtmal0723

cableguy763 said:


> The ta should show the number of sdv channels in its diags just like a regular cable box does.


This is correct. I went through the Diagnostics screen and it mentioned of 62 SDV Channels now... I do not know which ones it thinks they are since the letter mentions of almost 110...


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## moyekj

jtmal0723 said:


> This is correct. I went through the Diagnostics screen and it mentioned of 62 SDV Channels now... I do not know which ones it thinks they are since the letter mentions of almost 110...


 OK thanks. I was kind of hoping when you are tuned to an SDV channel that Tivo diagnostics would indicate as such. Having a channel count is one thing, having an indication of which channels are SDV is more useful.

If you do know a channel that is SDV for sure could you tune to it and then navigate over to the DVR Diagnostics page to see if there is any indication there that the relevant tuner is tuned to an SDV channel?
Tivo Central->Messages&Settings->Account & System Information->DVR Diagnostics


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## mikeyts

moyekj said:


> OK thanks. I was kind of hoping when you are tuned to an SDV channel that Tivo diagnostics would indicate as such. Having a channel count is one thing, having an indication of which channels are SDV is more useful.


More useful for what, exactly? Just curious .


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## moyekj

mikeyts said:


> More useful for what, exactly? Just curious .


 Perhaps I'm OCD about it but I have a spreadsheet of my cable company channel lineup with many details about each channel (analog, QAM, frequency, encryption, CCI byte, etc). I also have a column indicating which channels UDCP devices cannot tune. For those channels currently I don't know if it's because they are missing from the CableCard virtual channel map or because they are SDV. Cox in my area has been hiding certain channels from CableCard lineup even though they are supposedly not deployed to SDV yet. It would be nice to have a sure way to tell one way or another. SDV was supposed to have been deployed several months ago but looks like they may have run into issues and now that's been delayed, yet several channels are still not available via CableCard.

Of course with the advent of SDV the spreadsheet is becoming less useful, plus lately channels are moving around too much to keep an accurate tally without periodically re-checking every channel. The spreadsheet has been useful in the past, especially before bandwidth upgrades we were on a 750MHz system and I could tell through my spreadsheet when there was no more space left for additional QAMs. Plus it was useful as a quick reference for unencrypted QAM channels for those using QAM tuners without CableCard.

Like I said, it's mostly OCD.


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## cableguy763

moyekJ, do you know which freqs cox is using for sdv? This will certainly identify which channels are switched.


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## moyekj

cableguy763 said:


> moyekJ, do you know which freqs cox is using for sdv? This will certainly identify which channels are switched.


 No I can't tell for sure. I do have other non-video additional services identified such as frequency range used for phone and cable modem services. It used to be VOD channels were actually in the CableCard channel map so I also identified them with help of Tivo and PC QAM tuner (they were using 5 dedicated QAMS with 10 channels/QAM). Those are now hidden from CableCard map and I think have been reworked since. Last I checked there were a few frequency slots left that didn't seem to have anything on them, but I really don't have good enough diagnostic tools to pick out SDV channels. I suppose what I could do is rent out a cable box for a month or 2 so I can use its diagnostics to identify where the SDV channels are, but I'm not that OCD yet.


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## Hystyk28

jtmal0723 said:


> Once you power on and plug in the adapter, you gotta reboot the TiVo. If the light is still blinking, call Comcast to have another signal sent to your house. If that doesn't work, they didn't properly add the adapter to your account and it's not authorized to work for you. You may have to take it to comcast to get it paired to your account or have a truckroll come out to do so...
> 
> I had the same problem until I rebooted the TiVo, the green light went solid once I did. It usually means it's looking for communication from the UDCP enabled device.


I actually just power cycled the adapter and bam, it went green. Thanks so much for your input though and if anybody has any questions I will be happy to add what I can.


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## Saxion

Regarding the use of the Tuning Adapter to map clear QAM channels: Can someone with a Tuning Adapter do a test for us? Reboot your TiVo with your CableCARDs removed but with your TA plugged in, then see if your TiVo guide data still works for your local network HD channels. This would at least confirm whether TiVo supports this use of the TA. We'd be so grateful!


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## pin87a

I finally went and picked up my tuning adapter. The girl at the Comcast office knew exactly what I needed and was very helpful. 

It appears to be working properly (TiVo detects it) but it doesn't appear to actually be doing anything (not even sure if SDV is actually implemented in my neighborhood yet). 

The diag screen on my adapter shows "0 SDV Channels" versus jtmal0723's 62 and there is no change to the channels I receive. I guess the only true test is if all of my channels keep working whenever they actually do switch to SDV. Just gonna have to wait and see..


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## CharlesH

ZeoTiVo said:


> yah, it is really not that silly for a cable company to want to be able to present its own interface for selling its own PPV/VOD. I myself like this approach as VOD from cable companies gets better and includes much more free stuff.


Here in the San Francisco Bay area, the Comcast VOD includes a lot of free content other than on-demand replays of TV shows. For example, they have stuff from the local Humane Society where you can see brief blurbs about particular animals they have up for adoption, and you can pick which ones you want to see. I haven't watched it, but apparently they also have something similar for selling used cars. Kind of like video classified ads. I'm really not sure why someone would want to sell their products on VOD rather than using a Web site, but that seems to be an area Comcast is going in.


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## Funkmidget

I received a similar letter today from Time Warner (in Austin, TX). This letter said that they would be giving out the tuners later this year. Were you able to get one, and if so, does it work as expected?

Thanks!


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## jtmal0723

yes, and I'm on Comcast too! I was able to pick mine up at a payment center and they scanned the serial number on the back and I went home to hook it up. Works as expected.


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## timstack8969

Is anyone using "Tuning Adapters" for SDV on Comcast of Garden State?


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## jtmal0723

I disconnected mine months ago since they decided to put off the SDV testing. I still have mine though.


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## timstack8969

Any news if Comcast of Garden State, NJ is still planning on using SDV???


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## morac

timstack8969 said:


> Any news if Comcast of Garden State, NJ is still planning on using SDV???


Comcast abandoned their plans for SDV awhile ago.


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## jtmal0723

morac said:


> Comcast abandoned their plans for SDV awhile ago.


Wow, it's been YEARS since I've seen this thread, heh.... I received a call from Comcast a few weeks ago saying that they still saw I had the Tuning Adapter on my account, and they were politely asking for it back since Comcast has no future plans for SDV as my area went all digital late last year... Honestly I have no idea where in my closet I have it but I'll have to turn it in soon or they'll start charging me per month for it. It's no biggie. Everyone is correct, Comcast has no future plans for SDV any time soon. I am glad I was able to help everyone out years ago.  :up:


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