# No Audio on Four Channels



## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Since I got the cable cards installed, I haven't had audio on four digital channels. The video is fine, but there is no sound. Before the S3, I had a digital cable box that didn't have this problem on those channels. I called TiVo support first and was told that it sounds like a problem with my cable provider. I had a tech from Adelphia come out today to look at the problem and he had no clue. He hooked up a digital cable box and confirmed that there was sound on those four channels. Since there's no sound on those channels with EITHER cable card, he concluded that it's not a problem with the cards. He basically said to call TiVo.

Now what?


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

Did you not hook up your S3 before the cable cards were installed? If so did you have sound then?


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I did hook it up before I had the cable cards. But all four of the channels with no audio are digital (above 100), so they weren't available before the cable cards were installed.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

How does your some come through? Is it through digital optical, or through hdmi or some other way?


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

It's HDMI directly to the TV.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

Have you got it set up for dolby digital sound? If so have you tried going digital to PCM? I'm a bit confused about the 4 channel in the first place but your should be getting some type of sound, no doubt.

It may be a bad unit.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I have it set on digital to PCM. I can't think of anything that would cause just these four channels to have no audio. Even if it's a bad unit, why would it just pick four channels? I don't get it.


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## mwarner (Dec 12, 2000)

I have this exact same problem, but on only one channel. With my SA8300HD box, sound was fine. With the TiVo, video is fine but no audio at all. 

I also have it hooked up thru HDMI directly to the TV. I have tried changing the dolby digital settings in the Tivo, but it hasn't solved the problem.

Of course, the channel is G4, so no big loss there.

-Matt


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I don't really care about three out of the four channels, but I do watch the National Geographic Channel, which is one of the affected. For what it's worth, G4 works fine for me.


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## gayste (Feb 27, 2002)

I have no sound on exactly one channel also (National Geographic Channel, kind of good stuff but not imperative). It is very odd, I have the tivo connected to the TV via HDMI but i use the sound from the receiver (via optical cable). The channel comes in fine with my cable box connected to the receiver the same way (via optical cable)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I have a few channels with no sound as well. When I tune any of them they make my receiver click over to some weird mode I've never seen before. Luckily they're channels I don't care about so it doesn't really matter that they don't work.

Dan


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Okay, so it sounds like this isn't necessarily uncommon. I'm going to try to get Adelphia to replace my cable cards, just to rule out the cable company as the problem. Assuming that doesn't fix it, I guess the only option is to RMA the TiVo?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Have you tried hooking up the analog audio outputs just to see if they get sound? I think the reason these channels don't work is not due to a TiVo defect or CableCARD problem but because these channels have an odd audio format which is not compatible with most digital audio systems.

Dan


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

No, I haven't tried it with analog audio. I'll try that when I get home tonight.


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## mlkeller (Sep 9, 2004)

Yup, having the same problem with 2 channels and my FiOS cable cards. Thought it might have been a problem with the first cable card (Verizon only had one card when they first came), but I finally got the second cable card today and it has the exact same problem. Both work fine (even via an optical cable) on the HD receiver from Verizon, but not either via optical or HDMI on the Tivo. I'll try tonight with the analog as well and see what happens...


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

HMMMN, I have noticed that I don't have the sound on Fox Soccer Channel. Since it was only one channel, I assumed it was a problem from the cable company's end. I will have to trouble shoot that. I still have my digital cable box, so I will hook that up and see if I get sound.

FWIW, I am hooked up with optical to a digital receiver, and analog connections to my T.V.

I hope I get this fixed before I want to record another Fan Zone presentation of EPL.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I just tried hooking up the S3 via analog composite cables for audio and video. That had no effect on the problem. There is still no audio on those same four channels. Does anyone with cable cards have audio on the National Geographic Channel?


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## xkleyx (Aug 29, 2004)

I read over this pretty quickly so I appologie if someone else said this. Have you tried updating your tv's firmware? I know that I had that same issue. The sound was fine, if I used the composite sound output. However, the sound on the digital cable channels wouldn't work through the optical output until I did a firmware update.


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## routerman (Sep 16, 2006)

Sounds like a problem with MPEG audio vs AC3 audio. Some Satellite programmers have only MPEG audio. Some programmers have both AC3 and MPEG audio. The cable boxes can decode either one. Many CableCARD TVs (and maybe Tivo S3's) only decode AC3. Which specific channels are you having problems with? I know National Geographic is one channel that has both MPEG and AC3 audio.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

There are no firmware updates available for my TV. It's a Dell W4200HD.

The channels with no audio are:

-National Geographic
-Fuse
-DIY
-Lifetime Movies


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

routerman said:


> Sounds like a problem with MPEG audio vs AC3 audio. Some Satellite programmers have only MPEG audio. Some programmers have both AC3 and MPEG audio. The cable boxes can decode either one. Many CableCARD TVs (and maybe Tivo S3's) only decode AC3. Which specific channels are you having problems with? I know National Geographic is one channel that has both MPEG and AC3 audio.


The decoder chip in the TiVo is definitely capable of decoding MP2 audio. However it's possible that the TiVo software was not written to take advatange of that feature. Perhaps they made the assumption that all digital used AC3 and that's why we're all seeing it so sporatically. If they're simply streaming the MP2 audio stream out the optical port as is that could explain why my receiver kind of freaks out when I tune to one of the channels that don't work on my S3.

Dan


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Do you think my cable company would be able to tell me if they're sending National Geographic in MPEG or AC3?


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## routerman (Sep 16, 2006)

generaltso said:


> There are no firmware updates available for my TV. It's a Dell W4200HD.
> 
> The channels with no audio are:
> 
> ...


All of those channels have both AC3 and MPEG audio feeds. My suggestion would be to call and talk to someone in Engineering or Programming. They are the only ones that can/will fix the issue.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

So are you thinking that this is definately a cable company issue and not a TiVo issue?


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## routerman (Sep 16, 2006)

generaltso said:


> So are you thinking that this is definately a cable company issue and not a TiVo issue?


Depends who you ask. The Cable company probably isn't required to provide AC3. If their converters work, what is their motivation to change it? On the other hand, my opinion is that the audio quality of AC3 far exceeds MPEG audio at the same bitrate.

You said that you thought Tivo worked on MPEG2 audio. Have you tried to go audio out to your receiver? If the audio works, then it is your receiver not able to decode the digital stream. Have you tried to record or just pause the program? If this works, and you hear it through the receiver, it means that the Tivo is somehow transcoding the audio into the proper format. My guess would be that the audio would still not work because Tivo probably records the bitstream and is still sending MPEG audio out the S/PDIF cable to the receiver.

I apologize if these suggestions are redundant, I just wanted to throw out some ideas.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I don't have a receiver. The S3 is connected directly to my TV using HDMI for video and audio. I see what you're saying about AC3 vs MPEG, but if those channels are broadcast with both, how likely is it that my cable company is only broadcasting MPEG for four random channels?


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## routerman (Sep 16, 2006)

generaltso said:


> I don't have a receiver. The S3 is connected directly to my TV using HDMI for video and audio. I see what you're saying about AC3 vs MPEG, but if those channels are broadcast with both, how likely is it that my cable company is only broadcasting MPEG for four random channels?


There are only a few services that have both audio sources available. All of the channels you mention have both audio streams available. Whoever set them up picked MPEG instead of AC3.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Okay, so I guess I'll try to get Adelphia to tell me if those channels are AC3 or MPEG. If I discover that they're MPEG, I'll try to get TiVo to confirm or deny that MPEG is supported with the current software. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks!


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

It took an act of Congress, but I was finally able to talk to an engineer at Adelphia that deals with programming the channel feeds. He double checked the audio format and confirmed that all of their channels, including the four that are giving me problems, are AC3. I guess my next step is to try to get TiVo to send me a new box to see if I have the same problem with those channels.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I really don't think that's going to do you any good. The S3 TiVo records digital cable channels directly, bit for bit. When using the optical or HDMI outputs, with the PCM audio option turned off, the digital audio in that stream is sent out in its original format, bit for bit. If these channels were actually using AC3 audio then your receiver, or TV, would be able to decode them regardless of any bugs in the TiVo software. 

I know you said you talked to somone in engineering, and they assured you they were using AC3, but I think they are wrong. I also think that you're going to get the new TiVo, go through all the hassle of setting it back up, only to find it has the exact same problem. Obviously it's your choice, but be prepared.

That being said there should be something TiVo can do about this. The decoder chip is definitely capable of decoding MP2 audio, and they obviously have the ability to output decoded audio as PCM, so at the very least they should be able to detect the MP2 audio and transcode it to PCM so that you can still hear the channel. I'm going to report this bug to someone I know over at TiVo and see if there is anything they can do about it.

Dan


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Thanks Dan. This is frustrating to say the least. TiVo is going to send out another box, but it will take 10 days. I'm not hopeful that the new box will work any better. Does anyone know for sure if the MP2 decoder is disabled in the current build?

I'm not sure I can go much further with Adelphia. An engineer assured me that all of their channels are using AC3, and I can't really call him a lier with no proof.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm wondering if there is some way to hook up a PC to the optical output and tell for sure if it's MP2 or AC3? I'm going to look around and see what I can find.

Dan


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I've sent messages to TivoStephen and TiVoJerry to see if we can get confirmation on whether or not an S3 can currently decode MPEG. I'll post back when I hear something.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I just checked out the channels I have problems with and discovered a few things. First off my Moxi, which is also set to output DD audio and is connected via digita coax to my receiver creates the exact same effect when I tune to these channels, so it's definitely the channel. Secondly I discovered that in my case if I change the TiVo to do DD to PCM conversion I DO get audio on those channels. So if these channels are MP2 audio sources, as I suspect, then the TiVo can convert the audio to PCM if the setting is turned on.

So it appears that maybe you do actually have a defective TiVo and that the new one might actually be able to decode the audio for these channels if you change the DD to PCM setting before watching anything on one of these channels. Either that or your cable company is sending a really funky audio format that the TiVo can't do anything with.

Dan


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

I live near generaltso and also don't get audio on thoes 4 channels.. I doubt a new TiVo will help.... I'm using the Optical cable from TiVo to my Sony A/V reciever that automaticly decodes AC3.... These are the same and only channels that I'm having an issue with.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Try going into Messages & Setting -> Settings -> Audio ->Dolby Digital and changing the setting to convert to PCM. Then see if you get audio from those channels. When I did that on mine I was able to get the audio for all the channels I was having trouble with.

Dan


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

I don't get sound on National Geographic, either. The others are okay. It does not matter whether the material is live or recorded, DD or DD->PCM, optical or stereo RCA. I've tried it all. I am a Charter customer in Los Angeles, so no connection to these other reports. The sound comes in fine through my Charter SA receiver.

I'm waiting to resolve my cablecard issues, but this will be the next problem I tackle. Would it make sense to start a trouble ticket with TiVo now?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

In the process of testing this I discovered that two of my digital channels don't come in on the S3 even though they come in fine on my Moxi. They're not channels I personally watch so I don't really care, but one of them is a channel my girlfriend watches and she's going to be pissed if we can't get it working on at least one of the S3 units. The cable guy is coming on Thursday to install the CableCARDs in S3 #2, when he's here I'm going to have to ask him about it and see what's up.

Dan


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

I just noticed if I go to the Diagnostics menu where it lists what tuner 0 and 1 are tuned to there is no Audio PID for the channel I get no sound from. All other channels list an Audio PID.... hrmmmmm

It just says Audio PID" "NOT AVAILABLE"

Tuner: 0
Current Tuning Status: Currently tuned
Channel: 111
Frequency: 591000000 Hz
Mudulation: QAM 256
Connector Type: RF 2
Signal Source: Cable
Signal Strength: 94
Signal Lock: Yes
Data Lock: Yes
Search Complete: Yes
RC State: Avaiable
Tune State: In progress
Last Used Channel Plan: Undefined
Time Since Tune Start: 35 seconds
Time Since Signal Lock: 34 seconds
PCR PID: 104
*Audio PID: NOT AVAILABLE*
Video PID: 104
OOB Signal Lock: Yes
OOB Frequency: 74000000 Hz
OOB Data Rate: 1544000 bps
OOB Spectral Inversion: Off
Time Since OOB Tune Start: 45410 seconds
Time Since Firmware Upgrade: 797115 seconds


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

Strangely, I am having the same Audio issues with the same channels except I do receive NGC, it is on the analog tier here in Fort Worth.
No Fuse, No LMN, No DIY.
Very strange. 
I tried changing audio from Dolby Digital to Pulse Code Modulation (PCM) as well and no fix.
Has anyone exchanged their TIVO Series 3 and the new box corrected this issue?
I have Charter in Fort Worth.
These channels have audio on my other receivers.
I have the Explorer 8300HD via HDMI and it works fine on these channels.
My Tivo is HDMI directly to my TV.


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## mwarner (Dec 12, 2000)

Cloud said:


> I just noticed if I go to the Diagnostics menu where it lists what tuner 0 and 1 are tuned to there is no Audio PID for the channel I get no sound from. All other channels list an Audio PID.... hrmmmmm


I just confirmed the exact same thing with the channel I'm having problems with. No Audio PID when tuned to that channel.

-Matt


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

I have the same issue as well.
PID is a location for the decoder to find the audio. QAM streams can have several different PIDs for different services of audio if available. (English, Spanish, etc..)
The thing I am not quite sure is who is setting the PID in the QAM stream. Is it just a pass through of the MPEG stream from the Network Operations Center, (for Fuse, this would be Rainbow Media in Long Island) or is it the local cable MSO?
I am digging into this, but I don't quite understand why the 8300HD knows how to find the audio, but the TIVO with cableCARD does not.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

ok,
some more information from an engineer friend:
Fuse, LMN, DIY, has to map the PID in order to transmit it to the head end via an MPEG MPTS. And the PID may be describing MPEG Audio, AC-3 Audio, or AC-3 5.1 audio, or data, like for ad insertion or program guide information. So it may be that the TIVO is looking in the wrong place, or that it is incompatible, or that fuse just forgot to send the information.

But when charter makes the QAM carrier, with, I assume, 2 or 3 DTV signals or 10-15 NTSC signals, they likely have to change the PID so that it does not conflict with other PIDs in the multiplex. So without knowing what else is in that QAM, and how charter manages PID conflicts, it is impossible to predict.

Usually the QAM modulators at the head end remember the table entries even if the table goes away. There have been situations where the PAT (Program Allocation Table) is completely missing from the station and yet the Set Top Boxes are still working even though none of the test analyzers can find the audio and/or the video. It is a weird situation. It seems like SA and Motorola do everything possible to keep the system working even when the station/network is out of compliance, and people who follow the letter of the standard have problems with marginal signals.


When I go into the diagnostics mode on my SA 8300HD, I do see that it displays the audio PID information, in my case, Video is PID 82 for LMN and Audio is PID 83.

Seems that the TIVO is not getting the correct PAT for these few channels.
Going to try and call TIVO since it looks like Charter is correctly mapping the PAT.


***
Update, spoke with CSR at TIVO and they are pushing me to the Cable Company.
Has anyone replaced their CableCARDs that have this issue? Is it a defective card or did the problem continue with the new CableCARDs?


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Here's another weird thing. If I leave one of the tuners on an affected channel for very long, it seems to reboot whichever cable card it was using. If I try to change the channel, it just goes to a gray screen. When I go into the CP Screen, it generates an error for about 30 seconds until the CC is initialized. Then I can get in to see the CP info, and it shows "waiting for time", then "wating for UAT", then "Ready". Once this completes, the tuner is fully functional again. If I avoid those four channels, I never see this problem.

I can't imagine that lack of audio or a weird audio format would cause a cable card to reboot. Has anyone else seen this?

Since Cloud is on the same cable system and having the same problem, I'm going to keep hammering on the Adelphia engineer I've been speaking with. We'll see how far we can get.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

For what it's worth, 3 out of the 4 affected channels show "Not Available" for the audio PID, but NGC actually does show an audio PID of 74.


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

Generaltso,

What has TiVo support said? Won't they call Adelphia on your behalf? Oh did you actually get a replacement box and if so did anything change? Not that I think it will since we both have the same issue.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

colincd said:


> Has anyone replaced their CableCARDs that have this issue? Is it a defective card or did the problem continue with the new CableCARDs?


Yes, I got two new cablecards yesterday, and the problem exists on both, just as it did on the one working card I had before.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

The regular TiVo support line said that I should keep replacing cable cards until the problem goes away. When I asked to speak to a supervisor, they still didn't know anything about the problem, but he agreed to send me a replacement box. That's going to take 10 days, but I'm thinking that I'll probably call and cancel it since Cloud is having the same problem on the same four channels.

I did get an email back from TiVoStephen saying that he will send my case to the escalation group and somebody will contact me. That was just Friday, so I'm hoping somebody contacts me today. I'll keep you posted.


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

Okay, still no sound on Fox Soccer Channel through the S3.

I connected my PACE digital set top box up to another outlet, and the sound was there.

I will check the diagnostics screen for both the PACE box and the S3 and let you know what I find. In the mean time, I have sent an e-mail to my cable customer support department. I will also call TiVo.

We will see.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

The thing to try is to unplug a regular cable box from the electricity, wait a few minutes for the ram to dump, then plug it back in. If the audio is working there, then the PAT table is correct and the box is seeing the PID's for the channels. 
Thus, it is either a CableCARD issue, which seems strange since it is getting most all the other channels, seeing PID's. 
Really need some help from a TIVO engineer and a Cable company engineer that care and know about this stuff.
The TIVO CSR people just seem to be trained to say it is a CableCARD issue and the Cable companies will say that it is a TIVO issue since all of their equipment receives audio just fine.
When I called, the CSR would not escalate me until I had the cable company replace my cable cards, but as I can see from gereraltso they are going to tell me to keep changing CableCARDs.
Can those cards really be this screwy?
Seems unlikely, but it's cable!


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

Checked the diagnostics screen. There is a number next to the PID audio, but still no sound. I called TiVo last night. They noted the problem and advised that the software team was working on a fix and would be sure to push that out to my box when it is completed. She could not give me a time frame.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

So they admit there is a problem?
The CSR I spoke to a few days ago was adamant that it was the Cable company.
I guess you just have to keep calling until you find the right one?
Did they indicate what the issue is? Why it is doing this?


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

The CSR I spoke to did not seem to know much. I think that helped me because that forced her to go ask questions rather than simply give me the relatively uneducated opinion of a CSR about what the problem was and the likely solution. (Otherwise, she probably would have just given me the knee jerk response, "its the cable company, stupid.") I was on hold for quite a bit while she was talking to others.

Unfortunately, she did not provide me any more specifics than what I previously posted. Sorry.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in anything that level 1 support tells you.

I've uploaded my logs to TiVoJerry, so hopefull they'll be able to track this down for us. I'll post back when I hear something.


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

I would not put much faith in a level 1 CSR either. In this case, what she said seems consistent with the other information that I have read on this forum, i.e. that TiVo Jerry and possibly others are trying to track the issue down. I am being optimistic (hopefully not overly so) that she asked someone that actually knows something. I could be wrong though.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Well, things have gone from bad to worse. The replacement S3 box arrived today. I really didn't think those four channels would have audio on the new box either, but I set it up anyway to be sure. I moved the cable cards into the new box, but they didn't get the CP Auth. I noticed that the host IDs were different on the new box, which would explain why they didn't work. I called Adelphia to change the host IDs that they had in their system, but they couldn't do anything for me. They said that they would have to make an appointment for a tech to come out. So I put the cable cards back in my original box. They got the CP Auth right way and everything says "Ready". However, now I just get a gray screen on 90% of the channels. I didn't actually talk to anyone that was able to change anything on Adelphia's side, so I'm not sure why this is happening.

Now it looks like I am going to need another tech to come out. I'm sure he won't be able to fix the audio issue, but I'm hoping he can at least get me back to where I was.


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

Generaltso the tech left the direct # at my house that he called to get the CC's activated... Try calling 1-800-230-0374.... Good luck. The people on the other end of that line can hit your cards.. There's no reason for a tech to come out.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

generaltso said:


> So I put the cable cards back in my original box. They got the CP Auth right way and everything says "Ready". However, now I just get a gray screen on 90% of the channels. I didn't actually talk to anyone that was able to change anything on Adelphia's side, so I'm not sure why this is happening.


Unfortunately, as soon as you moved the cards, it unbound them from the original box. This likewise requires your cable provider to send another validation message out to get the copy protected channels activated again.

They really should be able to do all this without having to send a tech out.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Thanks Cloud. I tried calling that number, but it requires an authorization code so it must be internal to Adelphia.

I called Adelphia again this morning and asked them to send the validation message to my cable cards. Of course, they hit them several time with the "Auth" signal, but that didn't fix the problem. I told the customer service rep that I didn't need the Auth signal, I needed the signal that told the cards what encrypted channels I am supposed to receive. She said that there is not such thing and she already sent every signal that exists. I had no choice but to make an appointment for a tech to come out this afternoon.

About an hour later I got a call from a tech. He actually had a clue and agreed that a tech did not need to come out. He said that I needed a "Staging Hit" sent to the cards. Apparently that can only be initiated from the data center in Buffalo. But because Buffalo just had a big snow storm, he couldn't get through to them. He's going to continue to try to get through so they can hit the cards.

While I had him on the phone, I also asked him about the audio problem on the four channels. He actually had heard about the case because they've been talking about it in the local office for the past week. Basically, he said that they've been discussing it with the data center in Buffalo to try to figure out what to change on those channels, but it's not an easy process.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

generaltso said:


> While I had him on the phone, I also asked him about the audio problem on the four channels. He actually had heard about the case because they've been talking about it in the local office for the past week. Basically, he said that they've been discussing it with the data center in Buffalo to try to figure out what to change on those channels, but it's not an easy process.


Wow, do you know if they think it is a PAT issue?
Did he see the PID's missing on his test gear?


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

He didn't say what he thought was causing the issue, just that they've been talking with the data center in Buffalo about it. The tech didn't end up coming out, so they didn't test anything.

Apparently, the computers are all out of commission in Buffalo because of the snow, so it might be a while before I have working cable cards again.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Well, still no working cable cards. They were finally able to have the data center in Buffalo send the "staging signal" today, but that had no effect. I'm guessing that they didn't do it right. If I ever get these cable cards working again, I am never taking them out of the TiVo again.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I'm back in business. An Adelphia tech came out yesterday and replaced both cable cards. I'm sure there was nothing wrong with the original cards, but this forced them to go through the whole pairing process again from the office, which fixed the auth problem.

I still don't have audio on the four channels, but at least my S3 is no longer a paper weight.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

That's good. The tech I talked to who said he'd fix my problem of not getting a couple of channels via the CableCARDs never came through. Now I'm faced with calling the 800 number (local office numbe ris just an answering machine telling you to call 800 number) and seeing if there is anything they can actually do to help me without f*cking up the service I already have.

Dan


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

What cable system are you on if you are having this issue? And what channels?
I am compiling a list, trying to troubleshoot this..

I am on Charter - Fort Worth
DIY
LMN
FUSE


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I'm on Adelphia in Vermont (soon to be Comcast).

-National Geographic
-Fuse
-DIY
-Lifetime Movies


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

generaltso said:


> I'm on Adelphia in Vermont (soon to be Comcast).
> 
> -National Geographic
> -Fuse
> ...


National Geographic for me is an Analog channel, so no PID info is needed.
I find it strange that we are having issues on the same channels, on different cable providers and states.


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

Fox Soccer Channel
Brighthouse in Indianapolis.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Yes, it is interesting that 3 of the channels are the same across different cable companies. Those 3 channels show "Not Available" for the audio PID, but NGC actually does show an audio PID number, so I have a feeling that channel may have a different problem. 

From what I can tell, DIY, FUSE, and LFM are all A&E channels and the original feeds are all carried on the same satellite. I'm not sure that has anything to do with the problem, but it's interesting.

Out of curiousity, can somebody confirm that they DO get audio on those 3 channels?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I get audio on all 3 of those channels via Charter, so there is definitely some way to make it work at the cable head end.

Dan


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

In order to troubleshoot this further, does someone have a CableCARD device that is paired with something other than a TIVO? If so, do you get audio?
For the people who are not getting Audio on these channels, who is the manufacturer of your CableCARD?
I have Scientific Atlanta cards. 

What about you?


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

My cable cards are Scientific Atlanta as well.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I checked all four of the channels that people are not getting no audio on and I have audio. I still do not have audio on channel 163 LMN...

I will need to call TiVo on this one. Comcast said it is not their problem since audio on 163 works fine on a SA8300 STB.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

If you check the Diagnostics screen, do you have a number listed for Audio PID on that channel or does it say NOT AVAILABLE?

I can pretty much gaurantee that calling TiVo will not help you at all. They'll basically tell you to keep replacing your cable cards until it works. The cable company will keep blaming TiVo and TiVo will keep blaming the cable company. I've escalated this issue with both TiVo and Adelphia, but am still waiting for a proposed resolution.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

generaltso said:


> If you check the Diagnostics screen, do you have a number listed for Audio PID on that channel or does it say NOT AVAILABLE?
> 
> I can pretty much gaurantee that calling TiVo will not help you at all. They'll basically tell you to keep replacing your cable cards until it works. The cable company will keep blaming TiVo and TiVo will keep blaming the cable company. I've escalated this issue with both TiVo and Adelphia, but am still waiting for a proposed resolution.


I think this might be an SA issue..
Does anyone have an SA CableCARD in a box other than TIVO to check this out?
Still missing audio on a device using CableCARD that is not a TIVO.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

If I take one of my SA CC's out of my TiVo and put in in my Sony TV's CC slot will that mess anything up? I think the CC's are married to the box or TV that the cable company sets them up it. Isn't that the host id that the cable companies marry the CC's to?

If this will not cause me issues, I will try one of my CC's in my Sony TV and see if I get audio on channel 163. That is the channel I do not get audio on.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

It depends on your cable provider. Some people have reported swapping their cable cards between devices without any issues. But if your cable provider pairs the host ID to the cable card, it will screw things up when you put the card in another device.

I put my cable cards in another S3 and it royally screwed things up. Not only did they not work in the other S3, but it somehow screwed things up so badly that they no longer worked in the original S3. Adelphia tried and tried, but they couldn't get them to work again. They ended up replacing the cards and pairing everything from scratch.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I will not be trying this then.

BTW, on the channel with no audio I DO see in the diagnostics that the PID is NOT AVAILABLE


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

I gave up..
After a barrage of nagging from my wife about an $800.00 TiVo that does not completely work, I called and arranged to have my TiVo returned this afternoon.
I will miss it, but will be back when all this TiVo vs. the Cable Company stuff gets cleared up. 
I cannot wait for the day, when you can by an HD DVR, has intuitive menus like the TiVo and does not charge a monthly fee for a cheap cable guide.
Where are you developer? 
Give me a product that I pay for once and works!


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Interesting. I had a similar, but not exactly the same, problem. In my case I did not get two channels with my CableCARD. Once getting through the know-nothing-it's-your-TV's-problem VP, the engineers were very helpful. 

One channel (MSNBC) did show the local insert commercials (audio & video), but not the MSNBC network feed (no audio, no video).
One channel (NASA-TV) showed nothing (no audio, no video). They don't show any local commercial inserts anyways.

They found the problem at their head end. The engineer wasn't too explicit, but it did require them changing some equipment. First the MSNBC feed, then the NASA-TV feed, and indeed they fixed it. Since the MSNBC feed did have the local commercial inserts, I'm not quite sure about the problem being in the way the QAM modulator was setup. In fact the one thing he did mention was that they required digital receivers at their headend. I'm guessing here that perhaps they were feeding an analog sat receiver output into a modulator digital input. This would explain why the local commercial inserts played fine with MSNBC, just not the network itself. But then again, the problem didn't affect reception of these two channels on the STB/DVR. Anyways, the problem was fixed. I'm wondering if in the OP's case there is an audio interface issue or authorization problem with their CableCARD configurations at the DAC.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I have no doubt that this problem can be resolved at the head end. The problem is convincing the cable company to actually spend time looking for a resolution.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I might give that 888 number a try today and see what they say.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I placed a call to that 800 number that was posted here. I spoke with a very nice AdelphiaCast guy who knows about this issue. He has two other people on file that are having this no sound issue. He is working with SA and TiVo on a solution. He is hopeful that once Comcast takes over fully by the end of November that it will get fixed then. He said that Comcast will be installing some new equipment at the head end. It might fix itself at that time. He has my name and number and will call if he finds out any new info. In the meantime he said to call TiVo and to keep on AdelphiaCast too. Don't let the issue die.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I've been calling them for an update about once a week. They're very nice about it, but they generally never have any new information to report.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

He also did say that the same CC's in a TV and not a TiVo did not have the audio issue. So it is something with the CC's and the TiVo.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Has anyone gotten there no audio channels fixed? I still have one with no audio. 163 LMN.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Nope. And I'm really missing the National Geographic Channel.


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## willettg (Nov 23, 2004)

I live in Irving TX, and have had Verizon FiOS video service about 5 months using the Motorola HD DVR.

Verizon activated two cable cards in my TiVo/S3 DVR on Nov 1st.

I opened a case 11/04/06 with TiVo (#5490836) on the issue with I am having with four channels in the TiVo S3:

CH 71 - CNN Headline News: OK in program guide, but no video or audio on TiVo.

CH 81 - CSPAN3: OK in program guide, have video but *no audio * on TiVo.

CH 200 - Hallmark Channel: OK in program guide, but no video or audio on TiVo.

CH 520 - CNN Headline News (duplicate of CH 71) : OK in program guide, but no video or audio on TiVo.

These four channels work fine when tuned by the Motorola HD DVR. I individually moved both of my TiVo cable cards to my Sony HDTV, and all four channels work OK on both cards.

TiVo says I have two faulty cable cards, and will not escalate the case to enfineering unless/until they are replaced by Verizon.

Verizon refuses to replace the cable cards because both work fine in my Sony TV - stating this is a known TiVo issue.

 Why won't TiVo support me in proving whose problem this is?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I called TiVo today to report that I am still not getting audio on one channel. LMN 163. PID NOT AVAILABLE. They have my case going to engineering and I will get a call soon on what can be done. Just wanted to update this tread.

BTW, they know about this issue.

Anyone else ever get this fixed?


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Nope. But my logs were sent to engineering last month.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

willettg said:


> I live in Irving TX, and have had Verizon FiOS video service about 5 months using the Motorola HD DVR.
> 
> Verizon activated two cable cards in my TiVo/S3 DVR on Nov 1st.
> 
> ...


I have a friend that is an engineer with FIOS in Dallas.
He said he is going to look into this from there in for us.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Cool. I hope we can get this fixed and find out just who's problem this actually is.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

tazzmission said:


> Cool. I hope we can get this fixed and find out just who's problem this actually is.


This is a strange issue. It would seem that TiVo would be a little more proactive about getting this resolved.
It is so hard for us to get TiVo and the Cable company together working these things out.

As a result, I sent my Series 3 TiVo back last week for a full refund.
I used to be one of those TiVo lovers, but now I am pretty much over them.
I don't think there should be a monthly fee. I feel TiVo should by now have figured out how to subsidize programming data.

If you think about it, with the CableCARD, they now have access to the programming data supplied by each cable operator.

We are getting gouged..

Fed up TiVo user.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

colincd said:


> This is a strange issue. It would seem that TiVo would be a little more proactive about getting this resolved.
> It is so hard for us to get TiVo and the Cable company together working these things out.
> 
> As a result, I sent my Series 3 TiVo back last week for a full refund.
> ...


You seem fed up, so this likely won't be of interest to you ... but fo anyone that reads your thread and thinks the Guide data is the major part of the service provided to you, for which you're charged (19.95 or 12.95 or 6.95 or whatever, monthly) ... that is incorrect, and misinformation.

In addition to the updates, superior & reliable usability/experience, convenience
etc, the Tribune-provided) TiVo Guide Data is ALWAYS superior to the crummy version at least my Adelphia proveds, and that I often look at on my 6412 HD DVR.

Saying it's not worth the monthly fee to YOU is reasonable; Insisting it isn't worth the monthly fee to EVERYONE is presumptious.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I am a little mad about not getting audio on this one channel. I am really mad that after a few weeks of signing up for TiVo service they raise the price considerably. It will not make me leave TiVo at this time though. I consider myself an early adopter with the S3 and it is going to have a few bugs at first. I just hope this issue gets fixed.

I am a former DirecTV customer who was very happy until about a year ago. I had 2 HR10-250's for a few years and 2 SD DirecTiVo's for a few years prior to that. I left DirecTV because they kept upping their prices, then lowered the PQ, and had a pretty poor HDTV line up. Then they end their TiVo relationship in favor of what in my opinion is an inferior DVR (HR20-700). That was enough for me to leave and go back to cable.

However I can not blame anyone for returning their S3 and canceling the TiVo service.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

TiVo engineering called me today to explain the situation. The missing audio on 4 channels is a problem that is with the TiVo and not with the head-end at the cable company. TiVo is in the process of fixing this issue. Unfortunately they do not have a time frame for a fix. There is a software update coming in the next month (8.1) He can not confirm that a fix will be there for this issue though. He also did confirm that MRV and TiVoToGo will not be in the 8.1 update. Just thought I would pass this info along to the group.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

tazzmission said:


> TiVo engineering called me today to explain the situation. The missing audio on 4 channels is a problem that is with the TiVo and not with the head-end at the cable company.


Wow!
Finally. Could they explain what the exact problem was?
TiVo Sucks. They made me call the cable company, stay on hold for hours over the course of this issue and demand CableCARD after CableCARD.
I had six visits from the Cable Company replacing cards. The cable guy is coming over for Thanksgiving he has been here so much.
Real nice of TiVo to make us shell out $800 to be Beta Testers.
What a privilege!


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

The four channels in question use a different audio stream that the TiVo is currently not currently able to decode.

That is what he told me.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

tazzmission said:


> The four channels in question use a different audio stream that the TiVo is currently not currently able to decode.


Geeze,
this should have been obvious when they did there Alpha and Beta testing.


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## willettg (Nov 23, 2004)

What does TiVo engineering say about missing channels (see my post #91)?

Is this a TiVo problem or a Verizon (Motorola) cable card problem?



tazzmission said:


> TiVo engineering called me today to explain the situation. The missing audio on 4 channels is a problem that is with the TiVo and not with the head-end at the cable company. TiVo is in the process of fixing this issue. Unfortunately they do not have a time frame for a fix. There is a software update coming in the next month (8.1) He can not confirm that a fix will be there for this issue though. He also did confirm that MRV and TiVoToGo will not be in the 8.1 update. Just thought I would pass this info along to the group.


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

Perhaps this will solve my missing audio on Fox Soccer Channel. I do have a value for the audio PID, though-- just no sound.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I guess we will see what TiVo does from here.


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## Mishkin (Apr 20, 2002)

I'm a long time lurker who just moved from DirecTivo to S3 with Northeast Charter. I'm too seeing the missing audio on a few channels (specifically FMC but maybe other channels as well). I also have two channels that will initially tune but then will immediately bring me to a grey screen reading something along the lines of "Contact Charter" along with a number and info about the hardware and cable-cards.

I'm figuring on calling Tivo up and opening a ticket regarding the audio so they have something on file. I'm a bit annoyed about the audio problem on FMC and the tuning issue (specifically because it affects Bravo) but think I can be a bit patient. 

I was not an early adopter of Tivo since my first unit was the GXCEBOT but I recall reading about initial software issues experienced by early adopters. It might take Tivo a bit to work out the kinks but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and await the software update before letting myself get upset over a couple of channels of television.

Cheers,


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Mishkin said:


> I'm a long time lurker who just moved from DirecTivo to S3 with Northeast Charter. I'm too seeing the missing audio on a few channels (specifically FMC but maybe other channels as well). I also have two channels that will initially tune but then will immediately bring me to a grey screen reading something along the lines of "Contact Charter" along with a number and info about the hardware and cable-cards.
> 
> I'm figuring on calling Tivo up and opening a ticket regarding the audio so they have something on file. I'm a bit annoyed about the audio problem on FMC and the tuning issue (specifically because it affects Bravo) but think I can be a bit patient.
> 
> ...


That is how I am looking at it too. My first TiVo was back on 2001. It was a Sony SVR-2000. I grew tired having of having the TiVo tune my cable box and the low PQ due to the encoding. so I switched to DirecTV and got two DirecTiVo's. I am not back to TiVo and cable again.


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

tazzmission said:


> I am not back to TiVo and cable again.


Wait and see what happens when DirecTV forces you to go to their new non-Tivo DVR. The DirecTivos you have now won't work when D* switches completely to MPEG4.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

tazzmission said:


> TiVo engineering called me today to explain the situation. The missing audio on 4 channels is a problem that is with the TiVo and not with the head-end at the cable company. TiVo is in the process of fixing this issue. Unfortunately they do not have a time frame for a fix. There is a software update coming in the next month (8.1) He can not confirm that a fix will be there for this issue though. He also did confirm that MRV and TiVoToGo will not be in the 8.1 update. Just thought I would pass this info along to the group.


Thanks for injecting some actual information into this thread. I've had this problem, but have been doing battle with Charter on other fronts, so I haven't pursued it. It's nice to know that it is a TiVo problem and they're going to fix it. I'm now one step closer to S3 bliss.


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## willettg (Nov 23, 2004)

tazzmission:

Any word from your source about missing channels (see my post #91)



ChuckyBox said:


> Thanks for injecting some actual information into this thread. I've had this problem, but have been doing battle with Charter on other fronts, so I haven't pursued it. It's nice to know that it is a TiVo problem and they're going to fix it. I'm now one step closer to S3 bliss.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

He did not give those channels. Just the four originally posted in the thread.

-National Geographic
-Fuse
-DIY
-Lifetime Movies


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## willettg (Nov 23, 2004)

*tazzmission, et al*:

I understand this thread is about missing AUDIO on the four channels.

I have the audio problem on only one channel (CSPAN3 on the Verizon North Texas FiOS network).

But I also have three channels on which there is no VIDEO, as well as no audio.

These four channels all work fine when I take the cable cards out of the S3 and insert them into my Sony TV (same model you have).

They also work fine with the Verizon HD DVR.

Can someone with an "in" with TiVo engineering get my issue addressed by them?



tazzmission said:


> He did not give those channels. Just the four originally posted in the thread.
> 
> -National Geographic
> -Fuse
> ...


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Send a PM to TiVoJerry with as many details as you can. He may be able to get an engineer involved.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

tazzmission said:


> The four channels in question use a different audio stream that the TiVo is currently not currently able to decode.
> 
> That is what he told me.


Did you ask what audio stream it is that Tivo can't decode?


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

TexasAg said:


> The DirecTivos you have now won't work when D* switches completely to MPEG4.


Which will be YEARS from now.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

willettg said:


> *tazzmission, et al*:
> 
> I understand this thread is about missing AUDIO on the four channels.
> 
> ...


Sure, I will ask. I don't really have any "in" but will pass this on for sure.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Hey - just joined and was actually kind of happy to see this thread since I don't have audio on Lifetime Movie Network either.

Cable is through Time Warner in NYC and this is my SECOND Series 3 (don't ask) with 2 different Cable Cards.


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## routerman (Sep 16, 2006)

jfh3 said:


> Did you ask what audio stream it is that Tivo can't decode?


The audio format in question is MPEG audio. Tivo expects AC3 and cannot decode MPEG. This is not just a Tivo issue. I had a Panasonic TV that would not receive DIY until the MPEG audio was replaced with AC3. As I understand it, the cable boxes can accept either format but most of the TVs and Tivo S3's with CC's (and some AV receivers) expect to see AC3. In my opinion, AC3 is far superior to MPEG audio on these channels.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

The S3 boxes do have an MPEG decoder, so the hope is that it's just not enabled in the software. If TiVo can enable it through a software update, this may fix the problem.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

I have no audio on FUSE,BIO,HISTI and IFC. Spent 45 minutes with TIVO on the phone today, spoke with a supervisor and he told me this is not a TIVO problem but some sort of problem with the channels/cableco. I have a strong feeling that this IS a TIVO problem but if they don't recognize it we can't expect anything good. 

One interesting thing is that when I tune to one of these channels and hit INFO I can see the sound symbol on the right side is grayed. Instead of "English' it says sound track "unknown". 

Sergio


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Why isn't this reported in the S3 bug list thread?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

slimoli said:


> I have no audio on FUSE,BIO,HISTI and IFC. Spent 45 minutes with TIVO on the phone today, spoke with a supervisor and he told me this is not a TIVO problem but some sort of problem with the channels/cableco. I have a strong feeling that this IS a TIVO problem but if they don't recognize it we can't expect anything good.
> 
> One interesting thing is that when I tune to one of these channels and hit INFO I can see the sound symbol on the right side is grayed. Instead of "English' it says sound track "unknown".
> 
> Sergio


I was told by TiVo engineering that this IS A TIVO ISSUE and is being worked on.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

I have the no sound issue on two stations. One is a religious station and I thank God that I don't have to listen to it. The other is some station that always seems to have horse racing on it, and I have no interest.

I think I tried a long time ago switching to PCM and that didn't help. I just don't care about these stations so I never felt like spending a great deal of time worrying about it.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I have at least a 125 channels I've never surfed through to find out whether I have sound on them. Perhaps I should, eh?


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

ashu said:


> I have at least a 125 channels I've never surfed through to find out whether I have sound on them. Perhaps I should, eh?


You are right but if you have a wife I bet she will watch exactly the one without audio.

Sergio


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

slimoli said:


> You are right but if you have a wife I bet she will watch exactly the one without audio.
> 
> Sergio


Maybe I should put off getting married until all CableCard/S3 bugs have been worked out then


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

slimoli said:


> You are right but if you have a wife I bet she will watch exactly the one without audio.
> 
> Sergio


My wife loves LMN and I have no audio on that channel. I hear about it everyday.

TiVo, for the love of all things holy, fix it.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

tazzmission said:


> My wife loves LMN and I have no audio on that channel. I hear about it everyday.
> 
> TiVo, for the love of all things holy, fix it.


Ha!
This is the exact problem I had.
The fix to this is, gotta get rid of the TiVo, or that is what I was told by the wife!
No more Series 3.

good luck Tazz


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

I tested all my channels today and actually I have 9 without any audio. All of them show as "not available" in the diagnostic page and "track unknown" on the sound symbol when I hit INFO . I really only care about 2 of them (IFC and LMN) but the chief engineer from my cableco (Atlantic Broadband) said that he can do something with the audio track , sending an alternate audio. We will see tomorrow.

Sergio


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

OK I still have the famous 4 with no sound. TiVo, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO FIX THIS ALONG WITH THE PARTIAL RECORDINGS!!!!!!!!! My wife is ready for a refund!!! I don't know how much longer we can use this broken ass box.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

The only channel I really miss is National Geographic, but I REALLY miss it.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

Cloud said:


> OK I still have the famous 4 with no sound. TiVo, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO FIX THIS ALONG WITH THE PARTIAL RECORDINGS!!!!!!!!! My wife is ready for a refund!!! I don't know how much longer we can use this broken ass box.


How many partial recordings have you had? I did a poll on this and the majority of people only had 1 partial recording. That's hardly worth giving up on the S3. I personally only have two stations with no sound and both are useless to me.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I've had 5 or 6 partial recordings and 4 shows that didn't record at all because there was "no video signal."


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

generaltso said:


> I've had 5 or 6 partial recordings and 4 shows that didn't record at all because there was "no video signal."


Have you had the cable company check your signal level? Not using TiVo, with their meters?


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Yup. They've been to my house SEVERAL times for various cable card issues. Every time the signal levels are perfect.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Well, I might need to change the title of this thread to "No Audio on SIX channels." My digital cable package was migrated from Adelphia to Comcast today. In the process, a few channels were added that I didn't receive before. Two of these new channels (115 - Biography & 116 - History International) have the same audio problem as the original four.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

generaltso said:


> Well, I might need to change the title of this thread to "No Audio on SIX channels." My digital cable package was migrated from Adelphia to Comcast today. In the process, a few channels were added that I didn't receive before. Two of these new channels (115 - Biography & 116 - History International) have the same audio problem as the original four.


We have the same "no audio" channels, although from different cablecos. The stations transmit the video and audio via satellite and are re-transmitted by the cableco to our sets. What puzzles me is the fact that many people is receiving the same channels without problems. I had a cablecard on my Mitsubishi TV and the audio was OK, which leads me to believe that the S3 is not prepared to decode all the different audio CODECs.

Sergio


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

MY "no audio" updated list:

LMN
DIY
FUSE
FUEL
HISTI
BIO
IFC

I'm pretty sure that my National Geographic only works because it's analog (basic package)

Sergio


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

routerman said:


> The audio format in question is MPEG audio. Tivo expects AC3 and cannot decode MPEG. This is not just a Tivo issue. I had a Panasonic TV that would not receive DIY until the MPEG audio was replaced with AC3. As I understand it, the cable boxes can accept either format but most of the TVs and Tivo S3's with CC's (and some AV receivers) expect to see AC3. In my opinion, AC3 is far superior to MPEG audio on these channels.


I looked at the CableCARD specs, and don't see anything that requires CableCARD devices to support anything but AC3 audio. Thus, it seems like the cable companies shouldn't be sending MPEG audio (or should be sending both).


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Roderigo said:


> I looked at the CableCARD specs, and don't see anything that requires CableCARD devices to support anything but AC3 audio. Thus, it seems like the cable companies shouldn't be sending MPEG audio (or should be sending both).


When I was using a cablecard on my TV all these channels had audio.

Sergio


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

Some of us have been having a similar problem with Verizon Fios. 3-4 channels do not come in on the S3, but they do come in on a TV with a CableCard.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

TexasAg said:


> Some of us have been having a similar problem with Verizon Fios. 3-4 channels do not come in on the S3, but they do come in on a TV with a CableCard.


Audio and video or just audio ?


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## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

Both - no audio or video on 3 channels, no audio but video on a fourth channel. They work fine with the CableCards in the TV.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

slimoli said:


> When I was using a cablecard on my TV all these channels had audio.


Not required by the spec is different than not implemented in a host. A host could decide to support this (especially since it seems that many MSO's are transmitting this format), but it wouldn't surprise me that the first release of the S3 would only support those things that are required by the spec.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Roderigo said:


> Not required by the spec is different than not implemented in a host. A host could decide to support this (especially since it seems that many MSO's are transmitting this format), but it wouldn't surprise me that the first release of the S3 would only support those things that are required by the spec.


Rodrigo

Thanks for your comments. What you say makes sense. Looking at the posts above there are several things that puzzles me:

-We have "no audio" cases in several different regions of the country with several different cablecos.

-Everybody seems to have the problem with basically the same channels. I believe that most cablecos send the signal forward "as is" and the original culprit is the station probably using some "unusual" CODEC. If that's true, why just few people reported the problem? Is everybody else getting audio on DIY,LMN,FUSE,BIO,HISTI ?

-I said that I was receiving audio when using a cablecard on my TV but I remember that few channels had a substantial lower volume . I can't now say the channels were the same in question but I think so.

-My SA 8300 DVR shows in diagnostic mode that these same channels have something different from the others reagrding MPEG decoding. They appear as MPEG1 and the other channels are MPEG2. Coincidence?

-The chief engineer at the head-end told me that they have options to send more than one audio mode but he had no time to go through all the procedures. I'm still waiting .

-I have a feeling that TIVO will not dedicate a lot of manpower to fix a problem that doesn't affect everybody but I hope I'm wrong.

Sergio


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

slimoli said:


> -My SA 8300 DVR shows in diagnostic mode that these same channels have something different from the others reagrding MPEG decoding. They appear as MPEG1 and the other channels are MPEG2. Coincidence?


This seems to be the key thing supporting what everyone has said here. Though, the spec requires support of AC3 (which is different from MPEG1 Audio or MPEG2 Audio), it's possible the SA diagnostics is saying MPEG2 when it's really AC3.



slimoli said:


> -The chief engineer at the head-end told me that they have options to send more than one audio mode but he had no time to go through all the procedures. I'm still waiting .


If Tivo isn't able to solve the issue on their side, let's hope the cable company can fix it.


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## mg_shaw (Jul 16, 2004)

I have Verizon FIOS and do not get audio on my S3 for COMCAST Sports Net and Mid Atlantic Sports Network.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Any news on this subject? I still have 7 channels with no audio at all. 

Sergio


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Nope. I might call TiVo again really soon.


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

So TiVo offered to exchange my box. But at this point is it worth the head ache to go through the dreaded cable card box swap just to find out the new box still has no sound on 4 channels, reboots, and does partial recordings? Is there any fix in site for these issues?


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

Cloud said:


> So TiVo offered to exchange my box. But at this point is it worth the head ache to go through the dreaded cable card box swap just to find out the new box still has no sound on 4 channels, reboots, and does partial recordings? Is there any fix in site for these issues?


This will not fix the issue..
It is a Decode issue.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I can confirm that a new box does not fix the issue. In my case, the new box actually made matters worse because it unpaired my cable cards and AdelCast couldn't figure out how to get them paired properly again.

That being said, I actually did talk to a TiVo engineer and they do know about the problem. Of course there's no garauntee, but it's been confirmed that it's a known issue, so I would guess that it will be addressed in the next software update (which will hopefully be soon).


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

generaltso said:


> That being said, I actually did talk to a TiVo engineer and they do know about the problem. Of course there's no garauntee, but it's been confirmed that it's a known issue, so I would guess that it will be addressed in the next software update (which will hopefully be soon).


I am running the next software Version, the Beta version and the problem is not yet fixed.
I believe TiVo is rolling out this software in a few weeks.

Not fixed yet.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

colincd said:


> Not fixed yet.


Wow, colin, how'd you get that version? What else is new? 
Can you even talk about it?


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

I was hoping the new software would fix this. This is a MAJOR bug and a possible cause of divorce. Too bad!

Sergio


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

ColinCD

You said you returned your TIVO in previous posts. What happened?

Sergio


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

colincd said:


> I am running the next software Version, the Beta version and the problem is not yet fixed.
> I believe TiVo is rolling out this software in a few weeks.
> 
> Not fixed yet.


That's interesting - how are you running ANY software on your Series 3 if you sent it back two weeks ago?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4592967#post4592967

If you are running new software, what's the code level on the System Information screen?


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> That's interesting - how are you running ANY software on your Series 3 if you sent it back two weeks ago?
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4592967#post4592967
> 
> If you are running new software, what's the code level on the System Information screen?


He also returned it 10 days earlier:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4528163#post4528163

Maybe if we return our S3 we can be invited to be a Beta tester


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

slimoli said:


> He also returned it 10 days earlier:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4528163#post4528163
> 
> Maybe if we return our S3 we can be invited to be a Beta tester


I have a Series 3 in my office.. 
I returned my Series 3 that was my wife's that was in our living room.
I had two units.
As stated in a previous post, my wife could not tolerate the TiVo not working 100% and asked me to return it.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

colincd said:


> I am running the next software Version, the Beta version


How'd you get that?


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

Aiken said:


> How'd you get that?


Been on the group since series one.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Does Tivo at least recognize that this "no audio on some channels" is a bug? Can we hope that it will be fixed in future releases or this is just one of those things that we have to deal with?

Thanks

Sergio


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

slimoli said:


> Does Tivo at least recognize that this "no audio on some channels" is a bug? Can we hope that it will be fixed in future releases or this is just one of those things that we have to deal with?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sergio


I am not sure..
I can only submit reports.. 
They read them..


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

colincd said:


> Been on the group since series one.


What group? I don't understand.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Spoke to the head-end chief engineer today. He changed some audio settings on their side but still no dice. He said that ALL S3 customers of Atlantic Broadband are facing the same issue and at this point all we can do is talk to Tivo. I'm very concerned about this problem because it's not affecting most of the S3 users and I'm not even sure if Tivo is really working on this. I called Tivo and , as usual, they suggested another cablecard replacement and told me the famous "never heard about it before". 

Sergio


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Well, if it's really a TiVo problem, it's not going to be fixed without a software update. I wouldn't get too concerned unless the software update gets installed and the problem still isn't fixed. Then we can all be upset.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

What happened to colincd? He was going to tell us about these new features, wasn't he?


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Chief engineer called me back: FUSE,BIO,DIY,LMN,HISTI are all MPEG and all other channels are AC3. It looks like the S3 doesn't decode MPEG as has been speculated here. He also told me that all those channels are on the same "satellite receiver" or, in plain English, come from the same source. He will try to change the audio to AC3 but it has to be done overnight. I will post results tomorrow.

Sergio


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

I hope TiVo gets MPEG audio decoding enabled, if at all the hardware is capable of it.

But I wonder whether cable head ends are even supposed to transmit it at all ... I thought AC3 was a requirement?


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I don't think AC3 is a requirement, but there's really no reason for a cable company to use MPEG instead of AC3. My guess is that the default stream from those particular channels is MPEG and each cable company has to select the AC3 stream when they're programming their stations. Some cable companies, just don't know the difference so they send out the default stream of MPEG.

TiVo enabling the MPEG decoder in the S3 is a better solution than trying to get all of the affected cable companies to change their audio format for those channels.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

generaltso said:


> I don't think AC3 is a requirement, but there's really no reason for a cable company to use MPEG instead of AC3. My guess is that the default stream from those particular channels is MPEG and each cable company has to select the AC3 stream when they're programming their stations. Some cable companies, just don't know the difference so they send out the default stream of MPEG.
> 
> TiVo enabling the MPEG decoder in the S3 is a better solution than trying to get all of the affected cable companies to change their audio format for those channels.


I agree and that is what I was told by the chief engineer. They send the signal "as is" but have the option to change from MPEG to AC3. I also hope Tivo enables the MPEG, if it's possible ,but maybe my cableco can fix it tomorrow.

Sergio


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Slimoli, please send me a PM with your TSN and contact information, as well as information for your contact at the provider.

As for anyone participating in any beta programs, stop talking about it immediately. It is a violation of the NDA to even mention you've been in previous beta programs, let alone anything current.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

TIVoJerry

PM was sent.

Sergio


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## msg43 (Dec 5, 2006)

I am new to these forums even though I have owned 4 tivo's. 

I have just bought a new S3 and subscribe to Atlantic BB in Miami Beach, FL. Seems like to Tivo big guns have been rolled in already, but I just wanted to let you know that I have the same problem (and it's driving me nuts). 

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to be part of the solution because otherwise I am going to return my Tivo (the missing channels include some of my favorites...)

BTW, the engineers at Atlantic BB say that they are getting lots of complaints about this issue and they have begun notifying customer service to tell complaining customers to return their Tivos...


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

msg43 said:


> I am new to these forums even though I have owned 4 tivo's.
> 
> I have just bought a new S3 and subscribe to Atlantic BB in Miami Beach, FL. Seems like to Tivo big guns have been rolled in already, but I just wanted to let you know that I have the same problem (and it's driving me nuts).
> 
> ...


I am talking to ABB about the same issue and they have been very nice. They will do a new test tomorrow to see if they can change the audio from MPEG to AC3. I was never told to return the Tivo and I think you should wait a little more. The S3 is MUCH better than the SA8300 .

Sergio


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Good news! The cableco switched the audio on these channels from MPEG to AC3 and it's working now. They had to "cherry pick" one by one, look to the audio stream and select the AC3 instead of the MPEG signal. This is only possible for the channels with BOTH MPEG and AC3 and has to be done one by one. FUSE,HISTI,DIY,IFC,LMN,BIO all have MPEG and AC3 but there are international channels that only have MPEG. The S3 should be able to decode MPEG or some channels will never have audio. 

Sergio


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Congrats! Too bad Comcast isn't willing to change the audio format. Out of curiosity, have you had any audio problems with National Geographic?


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## d.peace (Nov 30, 2006)

Yeah, no love at Comcast. Right now, I only have one channel that doesn't decode - MTVHD, but I'm sure I will have others once I get a comcast tech out to get me properly set up (right now, I can receive a few channels without a visit by a tech).

I'm trying to avoid buying a standalone decoder box, but I might find a cheap one and route it through my stereo (which doesn't decode) until Tivo gets this straight -- maybe some sound blaster cheap solution.

I'm chalking this up to the headaches of early technology adoption -- remember how long it took to get LANS/WANS to interoperate? With so many links in the chain there was always some incompatibility that left the manufacturers and service providers pointing fingers at one another. I no longer work with networks so I could only imagine that there has been some improvement since the early 90's.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

generaltso said:


> Congrats! Too bad Comcast isn't willing to change the audio format. Out of curiosity, have you had any audio problems with National Geographic?


NG is analog here, part of the "basic" cable. No issue.

Sergio


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Does anyone remember the post that gave the 800 number for Comcast/Adelphia Dispatch? I'd like to call them again but can't find the number.


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## d.peace (Nov 30, 2006)

tazzmission said:


> Does anyone remember the post that gave the 800 number for Comcast/Adelphia Dispatch? I'd like to call them again but can't find the number.


What is the "Dispatch?" Is that the number I could call to get my S3 enabled without a tech visit? It seems I can't get up and going without Comcast registering those specific data elements (e.g., Data, UA, etc.) and the customer service center (800-COMCAST) doesn't seem to understand.

Would be nice if we could call b/c I understand if the CableCards get unmarried somehow from the Tivo, then I would have to have a tech visit again.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

d.peace said:


> What is the "Dispatch?" Is that the number I could call to get my S3 enabled without a tech visit? It seems I can't get up and going without Comcast registering those specific data elements (e.g., Data, UA, etc.) and the customer service center (800-COMCAST) doesn't seem to understand.
> 
> Would be nice if we could call b/c I understand if the CableCards get unmarried somehow from the Tivo, then I would have to have a tech visit again.


Correct, dispatch are the guys that authorize the CC's and do lots more technical stuff. They have engineers to help that are very knowledgeable.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> Does anyone remember the post that gave the 800 number for Comcast/Adelphia Dispatch? I'd like to call them again but can't find the number.


The number is (866) 662-1049, however they can't do as much as they could before the Comcast takeover.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

I am a Tivo fanboy but truth is truth.

I spent 1 1/2 hours on the phone with Tivo this past afternoon, after sound on one channnel cut out (Tuesday night). There was discussion of the fact that I was an isolated case (with implications of user-error) and later of a software fix that might be available in a few weeks, as if that was suddenly-discovered good news that I should be delighted with.

Horrible. I think the whole notion of customer service needs to be re-thought. We can't afford it (in the sense that we as consumers are unwilling to pay for it). I think it should be abandoned as a concept. I have some ideas as to what might replace it, but nobody has asked me to solve that particular problem and I don't work on spec.

Anyway, at about the same time as I tried to have a meaningful conversation with Tivo, I sent an email to the general address of the local station involved (several times referencing "engineering" in the email), wherin I described the problem, with appropriate references to AC3 and mpeg audio. A few hours later the sound was back, in time for prime time.

Yes, in some sense the "problem" is the local station (or in other cases the local cable operator) which Tivo will eventually cope with with a software upgrade. But does Tivo not know their phone numbers? Why did I have to fix it myself?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

generaltso said:


> The number is (866) 662-1049, however they can't do as much as they could before the Comcast takeover.


That number is the Vermont dispatch office and they could not help me.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Sorry, that's the only number I have. They used to cover the whole Northeast, but a lot has changed in the Comcast transition.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I just got a call from someone named Adam at that Vermont Comcast dispatch number. He was very nice and seemed to know what he was talking about.

I did not even ask for a return call, but it is nice to see they care enough to call and inform the customer on what is going on.

He said that Comcast is making a system change that will enable AC3 audio on the channels that us TiVo S3 users are not getting audio on.

He confirmed that the issue is that the audio from those channels is now in MPEG format and that is why the TiVo is no getting any audio.

He said this change is going to happen on Dec 14th in the Vermont area.

I live in PA and he did not know when it will take effect there. But he did say that it should be on or before the Vermont area.

Just thought I would pass this along.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Impressive service by Comcast! Maybe they DO like TiVo after all


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Thanks Tazz. Adam is the guy that I've been working with on all these issues from the beginning, so he's well versed in this particular problem and cable card issues in general.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

My cableco managed to change 4 channels from MPEG to AC3 but I still have 3 channels with MPEG only and no audio from the S3. DIY,BIO,FUSE and HISTI are OK now but IFC,LMN and FUEL are useless with the Tivo. 

Sergio


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## lilblackhorse (Sep 7, 2006)

I posted my problem over in the help section---but this thread is what I found when I googled my issue.

I have a 2003 Series 2 810H tivo. I do not subscribe to the service, but manually set up what I want to record, etc. Everything has been great until 12/8 when I got the 8.1 software upgrade.

Like others, I have now lost the sound on my Fox channel--that's it, only one channel affected. My other tv's have sound on it, so I assume it's the tivo causing the issue. And the problem started right after the update.

I called Tivo Customer Service this morning and Luanna said that they haven't heard anything at all about this audio problem I was thinking back to this thread, and I knew that several of you had been in contact with tech support, so this just doesn't jive.

Help--she said I should clear and delete my whole tivo and repeat the setup. I am leery to do this in case I lose more than what I am missing now, not to mention the hassle of re-setting up all my to do list.

Any suggestions? I am not that technically savvy to have followed a lot of what has been posted on this thread. I was especially interested in the one post where the person was saying they went to the diagnostics for the one channel and it was missing some "thing"........

I live on the West coast, and don't see this as a cable issue.....any help would be appreciated.

thank you, aimee


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Our best guess at this point is that the Tivo S3 is not decoding all the different audio CODECS used by cablecos. I don't know about the S2 but the S3 seems to ignore any MPEG audio and only process AC3. Most likely this is a software glitch or the lack of support of MPEG audio. I can't say anything about FOX but so far I haven't heard about it being one of the channels with MPEG audio.

Sergio


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Although the symtoms sound similar, I really don't think that your audio problem has the same root cause. The issues that people are having with the S3 boxes are due to the audio format encoded in a digital stream. S2 boxes are analog only, so it's not handling any digital streams. Out of curiosity, do you have the coax plugged directly into the Pioneer or are you using a cable box?


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

My cableco switched back the 4 chanels they had fixed to MPEG because some customers were not receiving audio after they changed it to AC3. This is what is going on:

-Almost all channels are sent with BOTH MPEG and AC3. No issue with these channels.
-Few channels, like DIY,BIO,HISTI,LMN,FUSE,FUEL (usual suspects) have the option to be sent EITHER MPEG or AC3.
-Few old cableboxes don't process the audio from those few channels in AC3.
-TIvo S3 doesn't process the audio from those channels in MPEG.

I am back to "no audio on 7 channels" and hope that Tivo recognizes this as a problem.

Sergio


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Someone needs to find out which audio format adhere to the requirement/standard, and whether it is, as you speculate, TiVo who dropped the ball on supporting a required format, or the cablcos old boxes (my guess)!


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

slimoli said:


> My cableco switched back the 4 chanels they had fixed to MPEG because some customers were not receiving audio after they changed it to AC3. This is what is going on:
> 
> -Almost all channels are sent with BOTH MPEG and AC3. No issue with these channels.
> -Few channels, like DIY,BIO,HISTI,LMN,FUSE,FUEL (usual suspects) have the option to be sent EITHER MPEG or AC3.
> ...


Oh man....

Here we go again. I still only have no audio on one channel (163) LMN.

I will call TiVo for an update since I have not heard anything at all on this in weeks.


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## lilblackhorse (Sep 7, 2006)

I have the cable going straight into the tivo back....


Hey, can I ask you all another question? I am pretty hesitant to do the clear and delete thing---last night I did the restart just to see if it would work. No luck.

After searching "clear and delete" on these forums, I am now scared to death to do it, because many are/were taking 23 hours to many days to complete. I had to start it and open a far larger can of worms. How long should a normal clear/delete process take?

On a bright note, I was smart enough to figure out how to turn on the closed captioning so I could watch House last nite. Hard to multitask when you have to watch the captions though---missing audio really sucks.

So----should I just suck it up and try the clear/delete? I have my to do list all handwritten out so I can reprogram........thoughts that this might help??? And why would it help--the Software update will still be here. I don't get it.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Do you have a TV that you can plug into that cable jack just to confirm that it's definitely a problem with the TiVo?

I've never seen a C&DE take more than a couple of hours. I wouldn't think that would fix your problem, but C&DE has been known to fix all kinds of things for no apparent reason.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

When I did C&DE my cablecards had to be authorized and provisioned again. In some cases this can result in a truck roll and a fee. Some posters said the C&DE didn't affect the cablecards but I will not do it again unlesss it is the last resort. Hey, took me a month to get my cablecards working!

Sergio


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

He's got a Series2, so cable cards won't be an issue.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

I know but since this is a S3 thread I posted it as a warning.

Sergio


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

Add me to the list:
Channel 115 (Biography)
Channel 116 (History Channel International)

No sound on either, I Tivo's a Mike Tyson biography on the BIO channel, or I would never have known about this issue. After reading 7 pages of this thread, I am confused on whom to contact or that to do next. I am on Adelphia here in Connecticut. Do I call Tivo, Adelphia, both??


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

You should call both, although I doubt that either will be overly helpful.


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

Pretty much what I thought the answer would be, LOL


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

I called Tivo, the agent immediately put me on hold when I told her what the issue was. Two minutes later, she said its a known issue and they hope to have it fixed soon....lovely.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Soon... Yeah right. I have been waiting since the first day I got my (2) S3's and still nothing. I DO hope it is SOON!!!


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

Anything new heard on this?


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## fredr1 (Dec 6, 2003)

I think I'm the first to have this basic cable problem:

S3 using Cox in San Diego. The missing audio is on 3 "basic" cable feeds: channels 16, 18, and 19. These are all local access channels. If the tivo is bypassed the audio comes in fine. I guess I'll be calling Tivo soon.

Actually, this was my in-laws' box and I haven't checked the NGC, FUSE, etc. channels yet. I was thinking of shelling out the bucks for an S3 myself (I have an S1 and S2 at present) but it seems like the technology just isn't ready. 

TIVO: You're losing customers in an increasingly comptetive field! I think everybody here would rather you flat out admit to a problem and work to fix it rather than blame the other guy.

Fred


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

fredr1 said:


> S3 using Cox in San Diego. The missing audio is on 3 "basic" cable feeds: channels 16, 18, and 19. These are all local access channels. If the tivo is bypassed the audio comes in fine.


Is this with Cablecards? If so, is the cable company doing digital simulcast, and these are digital channels? If that's the case, you're probably comparing the digital channel w/ the Cablecard to the analog channel directly into the TV - so, not an exact comparison.

If the S3 is having troubles with audio on an analog channel, it's a different problem then the OP.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

fredr1 said:


> I think everybody here would rather you flat out admit to a problem and work to fix it rather than blame the other guy.Fred


TiVo has admitted that it's a problem and said that they are working to fix it.


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## colincd (Apr 25, 2006)

generaltso said:


> TiVo has admitted that it's a problem and said that they are working to fix it.


This is crazy!
I really was a TiVo lover until this S3. What Beta testing did this box go through if nobody that was testing this box reported this MPEG audio decode issue.
We have been charged almost $1000 after buying the lifetie subscription to be Beta testers.
I understand that TiVo is really the best product out there as an HD DVR, and with all the copy protection issues that the networks are fighting for it is difficult for others to join in. But, I really wish they would have delayed this S3 until they had a better Cable Company CableCARD / TiVo help relationship and this box was run through its paces. 
Really a drag to spend this much and have to spend this much time helping TiVo get this box right.


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## fredr1 (Dec 6, 2003)

generaltso said:


> TiVo has admitted that it's a problem and said that they are working to fix it.


Yep. They acknowledged it 2 months after the problems started surfacing and yet we are still reading of people calling TiVo and CSRs saying they've never heard of the problem. I'm glad they're working to fix it, but I expect more from TiVo than the whole "deny deny deny until you can't deny any longer" routine. The ideal: You hear of a bug, you thank customers for bringing it to your attention, send it to engineering to check it out, you work to fix it, and let CSR know of the status. THAT is customer service.

F


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Has anyone got any news on this issue? Nothing to report on my end.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

All quite here too. No audio on 7 channels and still keeping a cablebox for this reason. I trust Tivo is working on this issue but not sure if the fix will come on next software upgrade.

Too bad..

Sergio


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

Bump, how about a fix for this TiVo guys! It's been 5 months with no sound on 4 channels. !!!!!


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## fredr1 (Dec 6, 2003)

I just discovered that I have no audio on the radio channels provided by Cox in San Diego, in addition to the local access channels I mentioned above. These are not digital music channels, but actual radio broadcasts simulcast on cable (a lot of Clear Channel radio stations show up on Cox Cable here in San Diego). Can anyone else confirm problems like this? I'm assuming it's a related issue.

Fred


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

Cloud said:


> Bump, how about a fix for this TiVo guys! It's been 5 months with no sound on 4 channels. !!!!!


Cloud, sorry to hear about this. Can you please e-mail me ([email protected]) with your contact information including address, 15-character TiVo Service Number from System Information, and the name of your cable provider? I'll then pass it along to a senior customer support engineer for troubleshooting.

Thanks for your patience and sorry again for the issue.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

Tivo actually called me regarding the subject, and I used this forum to explain to the woman what was happening. She put me on hold, came back on, said everything I explained was true (as per this thread), and when it is fixed, it will be downloaded to our boxes...when, who knows, she didnt....


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## fredr1 (Dec 6, 2003)

I have Cox San Diego and per my note above was unable to recieve some radio simulcast channels that come packaged with digital music on either card (in addition to missing audio on a couple of "lower" digital channels like Discovery Health and some local access channels). All of those channels worked fine with the converter box and the odds of 2 cards being bad for exactly the same channels are pretty dang slim. The tech who came in appeared to know what he was doing and did everything including checking signal strength, adding a signal booster, and running a cable directly from the street box a couple doors down into my Tivo. Nothing fixed the problem and ultimately it looks like the problem is on the Tivo decoding side. That is, the no audio AND video on these radio channels also appears to be a TiVo problem, in addition to the missing audio problem discussed in this thread. Hopefully software update 8.1 (if/when it's released!) will fix the problem. I'm calling Tivo this week just to register the problem nonetheless.

Fred


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

It's not a cable company issue, its Tivo's and I really am shocked they let it go this long without fixing it.


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## PPC1 (Sep 16, 2006)

Well, all of the sudden, I now have audio on Fox Soccer Channel, which has been missing since I first got the S3. Just recently, I communicated with TiVo Stephen, who said he would forward my information on to an engineer. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but if so, TiVo and TiVo Stephen collectively rock! (And if not, well, TiVo Stephen rocks, anyway.)

(FWIW, I checked, and I do NOT have 8.1.)


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

I am still missing audio on the Biography and History International channels, so no fix on my end yet....


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## pashasurf7873 (Sep 22, 2006)

any word lately on this issue from Tivo. been without audio on FUEL since i bought the unit.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

pashasurf7873 said:


> any word lately on this issue from Tivo. been without audio on FUEL since i bought the unit.


No news. I have 7 channels without audio, including FUEL.


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## Cajun Man (Jan 4, 2007)

Here in Rochester NY, I have one channel that lacks audio: 1016, "The CW." TiVo's diagnostics state that the Audio PID is "NOT AVAILABLE." The audio is just fine when tuned to on my Sony TV (the latter also has a CableCard installed).

Add one more person to the list of folks hoping that TiVo releases a software fix ASAP...


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I called TiVo yesterday. I was told that this will be "fixed" in the next software update. I asked how long that will be. He said within 3 months.

They are beta testing it now.

I'll believe it when I see it.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Is this "next software update" the 8.1 or the 8.2?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

He said 8.1 to me.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I haven't noticed any problems here, but there are only a few analog channels I have on the favorites list and they all work. 95% of my viewing is HD


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Analog channels are not affected by this problem. It only affects digital channels with a specific type of audio stream, presumably MPEG.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

generaltso said:


> Analog channels are not affected by this problem. It only affects digital channels with a specific type of audio stream, presumably MPEG.


That's absolutely correct. The S3 only process AC3 audio. Most channels have both AC3 and MPEG audio but few only send either MPEG or AC3. The cableco could set everything to AC3 but old cable boxes only process MPEG and that's why those channels are sending MPEG and the S3 shows the "unknown track". 
Only way to solve the problem is to make the S3 process MPEG audio.

Sergio


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## fredr1 (Dec 6, 2003)

I was just on the phone with Tivo CS. The guy I spoke with was a little cocky and reluctant to admit it was a TiVo issue - he ultimately told me to replace the cable cards (my reply: the chance that BOTH cards are bad in that they BOTH have no audio/video on the same specific channels and no audio on others is very remote). He said if swapping the cards didn't work we could a) clear and delete everything due to possible corrupt data and if that didn't work b) something "drastic" - something on their end that was classified and he couldn't tell me what that was. He said it typically isn't the Tivo that's bad. When I stated that the missing audio (and I'm guessing my aud/vid problem is related) is a known issue he got a little defensive and said, "of course it is" but said there is as yet no release date for 8.1 and stated again that the cable cards should be replaced.

Not very satisfying. I'm hoping at this point that TiVo is working HARD to fix the problem and that it just takes time, but to have me spin my wheels by replacing what are likely perfectly fine cards is frustrating.

Fred


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I am getting very annoyed that it is taking this long to fix. It's not like we don't pay a monthly fee to TiVo every month. And the S3 is not cheap either.


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> I am getting very annoyed that it is taking this long to fix. It's not like we don't pay a monthly fee to TiVo every month. And the S3 is not cheap either.


 Why aren't you blaming the cable company for this issue? They're the ones who are transmitting an audio stream that the cablecard spec does not required the host to process. I assume you're paying a larger monthly fee to the cable company, and they don't seem to be too motivated to fix the problem. It's also more likely to be quicker to change a setting in their equipment than to qualify a new software release.

Let's look some of the responses: 


PPC1 said:


> Well, all of the sudden, I now have audio on Fox Soccer Channel, which has been missing since I first got the S3





slimoli said:


> My cableco managed to change 4 channels from MPEG to AC3 but I still have 3 channels with MPEG only and no audio from the S3. DIY,BIO,FUSE and HISTI are OK now but IFC,LMN and FUEL are useless with the Tivo.


He then reported:


slimoli said:


> My cableco switched back the 4 chanels they had fixed to MPEG because some customers were not receiving audio after they changed it to AC3. This is what is going on:
> ...
> -Few old cableboxes don't process the audio from those few channels in AC3.


This shows the cable company *can* fix the issue, without a software upgrade from Tivo. They've chose to explicitly support their old inventory of STBs even though they're mandated by the FCC to support Cablecards. The cable companies definitely had a large hand in creating the cablecard spec - if they though MPEG-2 audio was important, why isn't that in the requirements?

People with this problem should keep bugging their cable companies until they clean up their systems.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Roderigo said:


> People with this problem should keep bugging their cable companies until they clean up their systems.


All other devices with cablecard work just fine. My TV with CC works fine and obviously all my cableboxes also work fine. The S3 is the only device with CC that doesn't process MPEG audio and my cableco have loads of old cableboxes and just very few S3 customers. Who do you think is gonna win this battle?

Sergio


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Roderigo said:


> Why aren't you blaming the cable company for this issue? They're the ones who are transmitting an audio stream that the cablecard spec does not required the host to process. I assume you're paying a larger monthly fee to the cable company, and they don't seem to be too motivated to fix the problem. It's also more likely to be quicker to change a setting in their equipment than to qualify a new software release.
> 
> Let's look some of the responses:
> 
> ...


Who said I have not called the cable company. If you read this thread you will see I have posted that I have called the cable company (many times). They tell me that they will fix it too and still nothing.


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

I believe I might also be a victim of this audio issue on my S3. My symptoms are: watching the Sharks game Saturday night 1/20 on FSN+, timshifted on the TiVo, while it was still recording (e.g. the game started at 7:30, but I started watching it at 9ish). FSN+ is Comcast channel 410, shared with Jewelry TV, in my area, Sunnyvale, CA. While watching the game, the audio was quiet, and my receiver, connected via optical, showed "Dolby D". When the game ended, I jumped to "live" on the channel, which was now showing a different program from FSN (sports show similar to SportsCenter, just the FSN version of such, I believe) and audio came through fine and my receiver indicated it was doing its normal PLII processing.

This is the only channel / program I've ever seen the problem with. Any recommendations on what to look for next? Unfortunately I deleted the offtending Sharks game (offending in the sense that the sound was inoperative, and in the fact that they got beaten 1-0 by the Blues). If I experience the problem again I'll try setting the audio output to PCM to see if that helps, but if this channel is only sending out MPEG audio it sounds like that won't help from my reading of this thread.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

That doesn't actually sound like the MPEG problem. When you say the game was quiet, do you mean it was silent as in no sound at all?


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## Poochie (Dec 27, 2003)

Yes, I mean it was silent as in no sound at all. Anecdotally I heard that others - not using a TiVo S3, and also not in the same head-end as myself but another Bay Area city - did in fact receive sound during the offending Sharks game.

Another note since it might not have been clear from my earlier post - I have not had any other sound problems with the TiVo on any of the analog, digital SD, or HD channels. Admittedly my digital SD viewing is quite limited - I certainly haven't perused all the digital SD channels in my lineup. The next time there's a Sharks game on FSN+ I'll try to gather more data, and not delete the program even if the Sharks lay an egg - it looks like FSN+ starts the game on Feb 7th before letting FSN join it in progress at the conclusion of the Warriors game. It also looks like there's only 4 more times this season the Sharks get shown on FSN+ at all.


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## jklst14 (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi all,
I am having a problem with my S3. It sounds similar but I'm not sure if it's exactly the same because I'm having video problems as well.

For me, SCIFI, Versus and TVLAND have intermittent stuttering audio while the video is blocky/pixelated. This happens on both cable cards. All other channels are fine.

The Comcast cable guy was here earlier today. He put the cable cards directly into my TV and the offending three channels came through perfectly clear so it seems like the problem is in the TIVO.

I called TIVO. The rep said to wait til the next software update.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

JKL


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Poochie and Jklst14

Your problem is different. The original post is all about some few channels that have no audio at all trhough the S3. This is due the lack of MPEG audio decoding on the S3. The channels are always the same: DIY,FUSE,FUEL,LMN,BIO,HISTI,IFC. Some people have just some of these channels in the digital tear (the problem doesn't occur with analog channels) and some people , like me, have all these channels with no audio. Video is just fine.This is a well defined problem and the cause has been identified as the lack of MPEG audio decoding on the S3. 

All other audio problems seem to be caused by different reasons , like some glitches with the cablecards or some possible signal failure. Cablecards are much more sensitive than the regular cablebox. I use cablecard on my Mitsubishi TV and have a lot of picture and audio dropouts and the cablebox works like a charm. I had more than 10 cablecards replaced and it looks like each one has a different behavior. 

Sergio


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## BrianCT (Nov 1, 2003)

I cannot believe this isnt fixed yet!


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## edge64 (Dec 23, 2006)

I have a Series 3 with two cable cards from Knology in Montgomery, Al. I am using HDMI to TV and digital optical to reciever and I get no sound on:

National Geographic
Hallmark Movie Channel
Versus
Speed
Fox Soccer Channel

Don


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Specifications for CableCARD products require support for AC3 audio streams. We have found that there are numerous cable companies who either don't generate an AC3 track or the track they do generate contains blank audio. We have been working to notify the noncompliant providers as we find out who they are. We continue to advise them of this shortcoming if they are not responding, but there is only so much pressure we can apply.

In the meantime, we will be adding support for MPEG2 audio in our next major software release. Keep in mind that the Series3 DVR will still default to an AC3 track, if detected, even if that track only carries a blank audio stream. If your cable company continues to provide you service in this manner, it may be in your best interest to contact them directly. We are more than happy to point out that the specs call for a valid AC3 stream.

We had hoped our communications to the providers would've proved fruitful before now, hence the delay in posting this information. However, with everyone pointing their fingers in our direction, it's time we cleared things up. I hope this helps.


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Yeah - that's telling it like it is, thanks Jerry!

In more curt fashion, from someone not bound to be polite to the cablecos - call and raise hell with them if they refuse to adjust this as required by the CableCard specs, and threaten to cancel (if you have an alternative)

Or give up on those channels if they're being unhelpful, and continue to add a blank AC3 stream! I'm sure the companies that produce those channels would love to hear how the cable company in your neighborhood is making it nigh impossible for folks with a high-end home theater gadget like an S3 to watch their channel! If you're the letter-writting, BBB/Consumer Affairs contacting type - get snapping


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Just got an email from the Tivo Helpforum also confirming that the MPEG audio support will be implemented with the 8.1 software release. Great stuff!

Thank you Jerry.

Sergio


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I have called my cable company probably 10 times about this issue. They have been very nice on the phone, but still refuse to do anything. I spoke to an Engineer and he knows this is an issue. My provider is Comcast.

And when is this 8.1 software going to be released? Every time I call TiVo they tell me in a month. Then that month comes and goes.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Got a call from Comcast asking me if I could explain my issue with no audio on one channel to then AGAIN. I was told that they would be in touch.

We will see what happens.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

TiVoJerry said:


> We have been working to notify the noncompliant providers as we find out who they are.


Is Verizon Fios on your list? It seems no S3 users on Fios are getting sound on 81 or 496 nationally, or on some others on a more local basis. Is there any way to tell from the S3 whether this is the problem?



> _In the meantime, we will be adding support for MPEG2 audio in our next major software release._


Good news. I don't suppose you could break it out into, say, 8.0.1d for faster release?  Or is the next major release coming too soon for that to help?

Edit: Sorry for smeeking. I was pointed here from another thread. However, my questions stand.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Take a look and see if you have a number for the Audio PID on those channels. If there's no number and it says "NOT AVAILABLE", then you have this problem. If there's a number there, your problem is probably being caused by something else.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I got another call from Comcast yesterday asking me to check if I had sound on channel 163 (The channel I get no sound on).

Still no sound.

He said the engineers did something, but he has no idea what that something is.

Just updating this thread.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

generaltso said:


> Take a look and see if you have a number for the Audio PID on those channels. If there's no number and it says "NOT AVAILABLE", then you have this problem.


Yeah, that's what I get on the no-sound channels. But channel 71 (no audio or video) is apparently a different issue, as both streams have PIDs.


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## yanasina (Jan 12, 2007)

I got cable cards monday and just went through my channels and there are eleven that I get no sound from. I have Comcast cable and have not called them yet.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

yanasina said:


> I got cable cards monday and just went through my channels and there are eleven that I get no sound from. I have Comcast cable and have not called them yet.


Which channels do you have with no audio?


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

If you have no audio or video, and the PCR & Video PIDs don't match, that's where we'd need to know the specifics per channel and who your provider, including local city) 

If you just have no audio and the audio PID is NOT AVAILABLE, it means your provider is not following CableCARD spec by not generating an AC3 track, reverting to MPEG2 instead. We are adding support for MPEG2 in this scenario in the next software release but the provider should still be notified so they can generate an AC3 track properly.

If you have an audio PID but no audio, it means the provider is generating an AC3 track that does not contain audio. Even with the new software, the S3 will still detect the valid AC3 track. Your provider should be notified that it should generate audio for that blank track.


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

OK, I had no audio on 4 channels a few months ago... I just checked them again and I now have audio on every channel. They're all working now! I'm on Comcast here in the Burlington Vermont area.


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## yanasina (Jan 12, 2007)

I went through the channels and wrote down the numbers. What I have is video and no audio. I didn't check to see if I am not getting any channels I should be. I think they are the usual suspects plus a few more. (I also have a problem with Tivo UNchecking a few channels that are not giving program information. I have read on other posts about what seems to be the problem there. One of those I know is not listed on zap2it.com.) Before I do anything else, when I get time, I am going to reboot, redo guided setup and go through all the channels again to identify exactly what I am having problems with. Then I'll have to go back through this post and do the checking for PID and whatever that stuff is  Unfortunately, I don't have the hours in the day to do that right now; hopefully I can do it by next weekend at the latest. 

I'm a checkllist sort of gal, so at least now I can use TivoJerry's latest post to go through all this and see if i can identify what's up here.

Channels without sound: Biography, Fox Movie, IFC, CNBC World, History, G4, Speed, Soccer, Fox Reality(not on my cable company handout of channels, but may have been added), Word, and a sports channel that is not in my package, but that I can see somehow.

Ain't technology grand! (Well yes it is, but fiddling takes so much time)


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

Biography,IFC,History (International) are also in my list. IFC is the only channel that does have a PID and according to Jerry will not work even with the new software. I understand the "blank AC3 track" issue but I have already spoken to my cable company and they say they can't do anything. After the new software is installed, I will try to convince the cable company to at least change the blank AC3 to a valid MPEG2 track. 
They are working on this problem and they managed to fix 3 of my "no audio" channels: DIY,FUEL and FUSE ( they now have a valid AC3 track) but unfortunately not the ones I really care, like IFC.

After several conversations with the chief engineer I can now say they have 3 different situations as far as the audio is concerned:

-Most channels with BOTH Ac3 and MPEG tracks. No problem here.

-Few channels with MPEG only track. Should be OK after the new S3 software . BIO and HISTI are some of those channels.

-Few channels with AC3 and MPEG but the AC3 is mute. That's the case of my IFC and I hope I can convince the cableco to either send a valid AC3 or send only the MPEG.

Here is why the cable company will never change everything to AC3: There are many old cable boxes which simply don't work with AC3 and they can't eliminate the MPEG. My cable company (Atlantic Broadband) bought an old cableco with thousands of legacy cable boxes.

Sergio


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

TiVoJerry said:


> If you have no audio or video, and the PCR & Video PIDs don't match, that's where we'd need to know the specifics per channel and who your provider, including local city)


Ah, yes... on my no video/no audio channel, I see:

PCR PID: 1618
Audio PID: 1616
Video PID: 1617

CNN Headline News
Channel 71
Verizon Fios TV (Washington Metro lineup)
Laurel, MD 20707

I hadn't noticed before, but all the other channels I checked match PCR and Video PIDs.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

Cloud said:


> OK, I had no audio on 4 channels a few months ago... I just checked them again and I now have audio on every channel. They're all working now! I'm on Comcast here in the Burlington Vermont area.


Yup, Comcast in Vermont has finally switched the audio track on all the affected channels to AC3. Months of complaing has apparently paid off!


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

TiVoJerry said:


> If you have no audio or video, and the PCR & Video PIDs don't match, that's where we'd need to know the specifics per channel and who your provider, including local city)
> 
> If you just have no audio and the audio PID is NOT AVAILABLE, it means your provider is not following CableCARD spec by not generating an AC3 track, reverting to MPEG2 instead. We are adding support for MPEG2 in this scenario in the next software release but the provider should still be notified so they can generate an AC3 track properly.
> 
> If you have an audio PID but no audio, it means the provider is generating an AC3 track that does not contain audio. Even with the new software, the S3 will still detect the valid AC3 track. Your provider should be notified that it should generate audio for that blank track.


Ack! I just discovered this is affected me after trying to watch Ninja Warrior. Where can this information be found (PIDs)? CableCard config screen?


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

dig_duggler said:


> Ack! I just discovered this is affected me after trying to watch Ninja Warrior. Where can this information be found (PIDs)? CableCard config screen?


Tune to the affected channel and then go to TiVo Central> Messages & Settings> Account & System Information> Diagnostics.

This screen contains information for each tuner. If the affected channel is not listed as the current channel tuned on the first page, scroll down to the info for the second tuner. Go down even further to see three entries:
PCR PID
Audio PID
Video PID


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

TiVoJerry said:


> If you just have no audio and the audio PID is NOT AVAILABLE, it means your provider is not following CableCARD spec by not generating an AC3 track, reverting to MPEG2 instead. We are adding support for MPEG2 in this scenario in the next software release but the provider should still be notified so they can generate an AC3 track properly.


The software rollout to Series3 has begun.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can confirm that my no-audio channels on Fios are fixed by the 8.1 update.

I still don't have CNN Headline News (now on channel 81 -- the rest of the info is the same).


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## rdangel (Sep 3, 2002)

So I had problems with FIOS and Channel 71/520 CNNHN disappearing. They miraculously came back after 3 or 4 days and so far so good.

The one thing I cannot find resolution for is pixellation on HBOF, HBOFP, and 802, 804 and some other random channels. Not every channel gives me issues, just some of them. Tivo is of no help and Verizon is of even less help.


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## Cyclops (Jan 23, 2002)

This is hysterical but I had the same problem-- no audio on IFC, etc. Then last Friday, Comcast updates the firmware on my cable cards. Trouble is, there's some bug in the system that prevents my cable cards from now picking up digital channels like IFC. So now there's no audio and no video for IFC, etc. 

Then on Wednesday of this week I get 8.1.1. And yesterday Comcast had worked the problems out of the system so now I get IFC, etc. back.

And IFC. etc. now has audio too. So was it 8.1.1 or was it the cable card upgrade or was it something else Comcast did or was it tiny angels? Now I'll never know.


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## rdangel (Sep 3, 2002)

It looks like Verizon did an update of the channels and moved a bunch around.. Now nothing is pixellating and it looks great.

No problems now that I can see...


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

I now have audio on all channels with the exception of IFC,BIO and HISTI which have an AC3 blank track in front of the MPEG. TivoJerry had already explained that those would be the cases where the S3 loads the AC3 track instead of the MPEG . Clicking on the alternate track (MPEG) restores the audio but there is no way to make the MPEG audio "stick" after we change channels. I am very happy with the 8.1 and by no means consider this to be a S3 fault. Problem solved!


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## rdangel (Sep 3, 2002)

IFC, BIO and Hist channel all work fine for me. I guess I am lucky (for now)


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

slimoli said:


> I now have audio on all channels with the exception of IFC,BIO and HISTI which have an AC3 blank track in front of the MPEG. TivoJerry had already explained that those would be the cases where the S3 loads the AC3 track instead of the MPEG . Clicking on the alternate track (MPEG) restores the audio but there is no way to make the MPEG audio "stick" after we change channels. I am very happy with the 8.1 and by no means consider this to be a S3 fault. Problem solved!


Make sure you let TiVoJerry know about the blank AC3 tracks. Although it's not a TiVo problem, they were able to work with Comcast in my area to fix the problem.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> I still don't have CNN Headline News (now on channel 81 -- the rest of the info is the same).


It's working now (with matching video/PCR pids). My thanks to whoever is responsible.


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## kd_cooke (Jan 8, 2003)

I've had 8.1 a few days now, and I still do not get audio on one channel. Of course, it's one of my wife's favorites -- and so I hear about it almost daily...

Provider: Time Warner Cable
Location: Syracuse, NY

Cable Channel: 126 - National Geographic Channel

PCR PID: 72
Audio PID: 75
Video PID: 72

Upon further exploration I did find that changing the audio track from "1-MPEG" to "2-MPEG" gives me audio, but only if I don't change channels. Once I leave the channel I need to re-enter the info screen and reselect the second MPEG entry.

TiVoJerry PLEASE HELP!


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## Roderigo (Mar 12, 2002)

kd_cooke said:


> TiVoJerry PLEASE HELP!


This sounds like a variation on what TiVoJerry said could happen with the update. The S3 needs to pick one track by default - but the one it's picking doesn't have any audio on it. Don't know why the cable company would configure things like that. You need to call your cable company and complain to them.



TiVoJerry said:


> If you have an audio PID but no audio, it means the provider is generating an AC3 track that does not contain audio. Even with the new software, the S3 will still detect the valid AC3 track. Your provider should be notified that it should generate audio for that blank track.


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## kd_cooke (Jan 8, 2003)

Roderigo said:


> This sounds like a variation on what TiVoJerry said could happen with the update. The S3 needs to pick one track by default - but the one it's picking doesn't have any audio on it. Don't know why the cable company would configure things like that. You need to call your cable company and complain to them.


Been there, done that. After at least 10 calls to the cable co, I'm a bit disgusted. I know its simply a matter of finding the right person, but it's been a game of find the human in a stack of morons!


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

I had the same problem with NGC until Comcast removed the blank AC3 track. If you don't get anywhere with your cable company, send a PM to TiVoJerry and see if they can help get your cable company to react.


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## TiVolunteer (Jul 10, 2001)

TiVoJerry said:


> If you have an audio PID but no audio, it means the provider is generating an AC3 track that does not contain audio. Even with the new software, the S3 will still detect the valid AC3 track. Your provider should be notified that it should generate audio for that blank track.


I just had an occurence which doesn't match this pattern. No audio on tonight's American Idol on one of my S3's. Needless to say, my wife and daughter were *not* happy about this. (I'm just thankful it didn't happen on NCIS or The Unit  )

The PID's look fine (68) and both of the other S3's were getting audio on that channel just fine so I know it is not a signal or source problem. The other two S3's are showing the same Audio PID and working with that one so it isn't the blank AC3 track.

Changing channels doesn't fix it. However, if I force the other tuner to go to that channel -- it works fine. It is still happening right now (didn't stop with the end of American Idol) if anyone has something they want me to check in debugging this before I reboot it.


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

TiVolunteer said:


> I just had an occurence which doesn't match this pattern. No audio on tonight's American Idol on one of my S3's.


That's not a bug, its a feature!!!


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## TiVolunteer (Jul 10, 2001)

JohnBrowning said:


> That's not a bug, its a feature!!!


I personally would agree with you. However, my wife and daughter watch it religiously. They usually wait until 15 min after it starts so they can skip through the commercials until they catch up to live around the time they are announcing who got eliminated. So, they had only missed the first 15 min when they realized the "no audio" situation. I cancelled a recording on *MY* S3 so they could watch it while I debugged the problem. I would have *really* been in trouble if this was one of the nights they saved it to watch later (because of homework or something).

Additional info from last night -- I left it on that channel to see if anyone had any suggestions to capture info. It stayed with no audio for about 2.5 hours and then the audio just came back. Prior to that, I had determined that both cable cards were in good shape (authorized and Key status OK). Trick play sounds came through fine so the sound path seemed fine. Neither the analog audio out nor the 5.1 optical output were there. According to the info page, there was no alternative audio channel. As I said before, both the S3 that worked and the one that had no audio had the same PIDs for that channel.


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