# Tivo always recording? Decreases life of machines



## winger13 (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi Newbie here (since last night 9PM!) . If I am correct, seems like once powered on, the Tivo records consistently, even when TV is off and I am in bed - to accomoadate abiity to always pause live tv and back track up to 30 mins. *Am I correct?*

If correct, is there a way to say, turn Tivo into sleep mode during midnight and 6am everyday (unless I scheduled a recording during those hours)?

I got a lifetime ticket and am concerned all the unnecessary recording perday (guesstimate about 15 hours) which may wear down the machine too fast : (


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## JS2003 (Jan 10, 2004)

You are correct, the thing records 24/7, whatever is on the channel Tivo is set to. 

You could turn it off when you're not watching or recording, but (for many of us) that defeats one of the nice things about Tivo - it's always working, and you don't have to remember to turn it on, record a show, etc. 

The part most likely to fail is the hardrive, and it's a crapshoot how long a drive will last. Some will fail after a year or two of light use (e.g., in a PC) while others will run for years and years without ever being powered down. I don't know if it's still true universally, and whether it applies to drives, but some equipment will actually last longer if it's not subjected to repeated power up/power down cycles. 

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You can always replace failed components, if that happens.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

You're correct, it's recording all the time. But if you have a bad hard drive inside the unit, it will likely die early no matter what (first several months) and you can replace it on the warranty. If your hard drive is good, it'll last a long time even though it's always working.

All else being equal, don't worry too much about it.  We've all survived.


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## hitbyatrain (Aug 15, 2004)

Trust me, your TiVo will be fine. Your TiVo is ALWAYS recording, and it is designed that way. It won't hurt it in any way. 

You *can* put your TiVo into standby mode, but if I remember correctly, it still records. Standby only acts as a cable passthrough to your tv. 

You can always unplug the TiVo when you're not using it, but doing that often can have far worse effects than leaving a hard drive spinning. Plus, hard drives are very easily replaceable--and upgradeable (and cheap!).

After using the unit for some time, you'll *want* to leave it on constantly, so you can let it pick up TiVo Suggestions, recordings done in TiVo's idle time that it thinks you might like to watch. Read the manual for details.


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

The only thing that will eventually show more wear because of this is the hard drive. It's the most vulnerable and most easily replaced part of the system, anyway. Really, this isn't something to worry about.

When I got my second TiVo, I ordered a hard drive tray from weaknees and replaced the original drive right after I activated it. Now, I have a unit with 2 250 GB hard drives and a 40GB backup.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

And, the only way to actually turn the TiVo off is to unplug it. Then when you plug it back in, you have to wait for it to reboot. Also, remember that the TiVo gets guide data updates at night.


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## winger13 (Mar 11, 2006)

thanks for the reassurances - esp from your experiences.

I will wait until my1 yr warranty is up (warranty), then I will be replace my 80GB with a larger 250GB harddrive later. 

Maybe out of toipic for this thread, but should I be doing some imaging or backup of system files now since the machine is brand new or ok to just wait until I am ready to change out my harddrive?


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

Don't bother -- there are ways to re-image your hard drive if you ever have to. In fact, the easiest way to upgrade (aside from having someone do it for you) is to buy a software package like Instantcake. http://www.ptvupgrade.com/products/instantcake/

Basically, they sell you an ISO. You use the ISO to burn a CD which will automatically image your hard drive for you. Back when I upgraded my first TiVo, I had to follow a guide that someone made which basically told you how to do the programming to copy your old drive over to your new one. That took a long time. Instantcake is by far much easier.

*So anyway, the whole point is that no, you don't need to back up your drive. In fact, hooking it up to a PC with a Windows hard drive attached will screw your drive up.*


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

dtreese said:


> *In fact, hooking it up to a PC with a Windows hard drive attached will screw your drive up.*


As long as you don't _boot_ Windoze and it sees your Tivo drive attached you are OK.

When doing stuff/booting from a Tivo tools CD I often unplug the Win hard drive so it can't interfere nor get messed up by anything I am doing with the tools disc.


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

goony said:


> As long as you don't _boot_ Windoze and it sees your Tivo drive attached you are OK.
> 
> When doing stuff/booting from a Tivo tools CD I often unplug the Win hard drive so it can't interfere nor get messed up by anything I am doing with the tools disc.


Well, yeah. You do actually have to boot before the damage is done. 

I unplug the drives, too.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Just another example of people trying to take advantage of poor hapless TiVo by extending their Lifetime box's lifetime. How could TiVo have waited so long to correct this foolhardy offering?


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> Also, remember that the TiVo gets guide data updates at night.


If a daily call was scheduled for a time when the unit doesn't have power, it will schedule a daily call to occur within about a half hour after it is powered up again.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

There is another way to stop it from recording all the time. If you tune it to a station that dosen't exist-like 0, then it quits recording (until the next time it records something that's scheduled).

Since I bought my Tivo, I've been tuning it to 0 whenever it's not recording and I'm sitting in front of it. It just seems like it HAS to add wear and tear to a hard drive to have it constantly reading and writing to the drive. You can even HEAR the thing working harder.

Does anyone have more info or know for sure? I've started recording more stuff overnight, so a lot of times Tivo is recording all night. It IS annoying having to remember to switch to live TV and shut the recording down, but it seems like it would be extending the hard drive's life...

Also, it's annoying to me that there's no option to have the unit shut down recording if all it's doing is that 30 minute buffer. I don't use that, don't really watch live TV anymore, and if I ever wanted to I'd have no problem turning it back on manually. It'd prefer that to having Tivo constantly reading and writing to the hard drive. Geez, why the heck dosen't it at least shut down non-scheduled recordings when it's in standby?

[Conspiracy Theory]Maybe Tivo has the units reading and writing constantly so the hard drives fail sooner. Maybe now that Lifetime's gone away they'll finally give us an option to switch the buffer off?[/Conspiracy Theory]


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

Puppy76 said:


> [Conspiracy Theory]Maybe Tivo has the units reading and writing constantly so the hard drives fail sooner. Maybe now that Lifetime's gone away they'll finally give us an option to switch the buffer off?[/Conspiracy Theory]


Yeah, TiVo has a lot to gain by that.
wtf?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> It IS annoying having to remember to switch to live TV and shut the recording down, but it seems like it would be extending the hard drive's life...


There are remote controls that have timers in them so you could use that to have it automatically change the channel to 0 at say midnight. If the TiVo is recording, it won't change the channel unless you confirm the change, so there's no risk of accidentally changing from a recording in progress. Just a thought.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

I wonder if switching to a music channel (on the DirecTivos) would accomplish that, since there is no buffer on those channels. Anyone know?

-Mike


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

The only thing it might be reducing the life of is the hard drive, and that's like reducing the life of the spark plugs in a car -- it's a highly replaceable part with a limited life.


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## simonalope (Jun 2, 2004)

I suspect putting your TiVo on a UPS will do a lot more to protect the HD and extend its life than worrying about shutting off recording.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yeah, but if I can go, say, 5 years rather than 2 or something like that...


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## lajohn27 (Dec 29, 2003)

My S1 unit.. with a whopping 30 GB HD .. lasted years.. like.. 6 actually and I did nothing to prevent it from running 24x7.. Eventually the hard drive started skipping at the 6.5 year mark and I just swapped it out.


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## timmo (Apr 25, 2003)

Actually, for my bedroom TIVO, I wouldn't mind if it DID have a sleep mode, because at night I can sometimes hear it running. 

On the sleep mode question, why doesn't the TIVO clicker have a sleep button - or can one of the unused buttons be programmed to act as a sleep button?

T


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

Puppy76 said:


> There is another way to stop it from recording all the time. If you tune it to a station that dosen't exist-like 0, then it quits recording (until the next time it records something that's scheduled).
> 
> Since I bought my Tivo, I've been tuning it to 0 whenever it's not recording and I'm sitting in front of it. It just seems like it HAS to add wear and tear to a hard drive to have it constantly reading and writing to the drive. You can even HEAR the thing working harder.


I do the exact same thing. In fact, I've gone so far as to setup a low-priority manual recording to change it to an unused station late at night so switch it after it's done recording any prime-time shows.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yeah, they've got that "window" button that does absolutly nothing 

My understanding is that on Series 1 Tivos it used to be a standby button?

But yeah, I really wish it had a REAL standby mode that not only quit recording (except for requested programs), but also spun down the drive and fan. I can't use Tivo in my bedroom because of that 

At least my Series 2 is quieter than a PC. I wouldn't be able to sleep with a computer on anywhere on the main floor of my house, but I can't hear my Tivo from my bedroom.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

bkc56 said:


> I do the exact same thing. In fact, I've gone so far as to setup a low-priority manual recording to change it to an unused station late at night so switch it after it's done recording any prime-time shows.


Hey, that's a really great idea! :up: I hadn't thought of that. I'm going to play with doing that later-maybe set it for 3 or 4 am, so at least most days it will switch off at 4 and stay off until the next night-that will save it probably over 12 hours of recording per day with minimal effort!

Hmm...maybe one of those at 3 or 4am, and another at 10pm and maybe 12:45am to shut it off after prime time and Conan. Completly stupid we have to do it that way, but at least it's kind of a solution!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

My oldest TiVo is over 4 years old and has never had a single problem. Prior to upgrading to all S2 units I had a S1 unit that was also over 4 years old and worked fine.

Dan

P.S. I know that TiVo has only been around for 7 years. There was some overlap when I had both.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Puppy76 said:


> Yeah, but if I can go, say, 5 years rather than 2 or something like that...


Around here we have 9 TiVos over 6 years old and haven't had a disk failure in any of those yet. We also have some 10 year old disks in PCs that have never been spun down.



Puppy76 said:


> My understanding is that on Series 1 Tivos it used to be a standby button?


Only on Sonys.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I just had a thought...how will we do this with dual tuners? I guess we'd have to set up TWO manual recordings at the same time, for two seperate non-existant channels.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Dan203 and dgh, on all those Tivos you're talking about, did you just let all of them record and playback constantly?

I work with computers all day, and I guess I just see too many hard drives die all the time to believe that that constant (and pointless) 30 minute buffer isn't having an effect. But if you guys really did run those things for that many years in that state with no issues, I guess I'll just try not to worry. I'm still programming in those forced channel changes though!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Puppy76 said:


> Dan203 and dgh, on all those Tivos you're talking about, did you just let all of them record and playback constantly?


Yep. The only thing "special" I've ever done is I have never owned a TiVo that was not attached to a UPS. Which means the only time my TiVos ever reboot is when I get a software update, or the power was out long enough to drain the UPS completely. (that's happened maybe 3 times ever)

Dan


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Puppy76 said:


> Dan203 and dgh, on all those Tivos you're talking about, did you just let all of them record and playback constantly?


Yeah, they're Tivos. That's all they've done for the last 6 years. I find that more people believe that spinning disks up and down damages them more than letting them run but I don't know if anyone has anyone has done a real study to prove it one way or the other.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

dgh said:


> Only on Sonys.


And even then, the Standby does nothing other then shutting off the video ouput from the TiVo and enabling the RF pass through. Non-Sony Series 1 units could do the same thing, but there was no button on the remote to do it. It had to be activated via a menu option.


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## oosik77 (Nov 22, 1999)

Just to chime in with reassurances.... the hardest thing you can do to a computer (which is basically what the Tivo is) is to power cycle it. My Tivo's and my home computers are on 24/7 and all are on UPS's.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> And even then, the Standby does nothing other then shutting off the video ouput from the TiVo and enabling the RF pass through. Non-Sony Series 1 units could do the same thing, but there was no button on the remote to do it. It had to be activated via a menu option.


Actually the original Series 2 unit, the one made for AT&T cable, had a stand by button on the remote. However when they came out with the TiVo branded unit they replaced stand by with PIP/Window and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with that button. 

Dan


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

The only problem I've had in 4 years from a 240x unit was caused by a system upgrade/expanded hard drive issue. When I re-imaged my hard drives, they worked fine again.

Actually, make that 3 years. I didn't upgrade for a year because back then, TiVo boxes were expensive & I didn't want to void the warranty. The original hard drives for both my units are in storage.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Actually the original Series 2 unit, the one made for AT&T cable, had a stand by button on the remote. However when they came out with the TiVo branded unit they replaced stand by with PIP/Window and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with that button.
> 
> Dan


I forgot about those AT&T units. I don't recall what the remote looked like. Was it a peanut?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It was just like the current remote, just instead of the PIP/Window button it had a Stand By button.

Dan


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## simonalope (Jun 2, 2004)

The Toshiba SD-H400 also has a Power button that puts the TiVo on standby. I guess that's what we got to make up for not having 30s skip...


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> I work with computers all day, and I guess I just see too many hard drives die all the time to believe that that constant (and pointless) 30 minute buffer isn't having an effect.


Actually, most of the failurs in a PC are due to the spin up / spin down cycles. That's when the most wear happens on the bearings, and when the disc is stopped the head can touch the platter - when the disc is spinning it floats on a thin layer of air. So as it first spins up there can be some rubbing.

Server discs, which tend to spin constantly, die less often then desktop discs. Of course, desktop machines, and laptops, get thumped more often - and jarring a disk while it is running invites a head crash.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

In my experience server disks die way more than desktop drives (that are shut off when not used for long periods of time). We lose server disks frequently, but I've only lost one desktop drive in the last few years (and it was about 5 years old).

My gut instinct is that you get more total RUN TIME out of a drive if it's on all the time, but longer useful life if you shut it down (if it's not actually being used).

At any rate, that's not really my question here. I'm just wondering about the lifespan of a drive when it's constantly being forced to read and write a fast stream of data all day long, versus just being on, but not reading and writing.
It seems like reading and writing all day for no reason has got to potentially shorten it's lifespan versus just being on.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> In my experience server disks die way more than desktop drives (that are shut off when not used for long periods of time). We lose server disks frequently, but I've only lost one desktop drive in the last few years (and it was about 5 years old).


And my experience is the exact opposite of yours.
I very rarely have server drives die as opposed to desktops and laptops.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Could be sort of psychological on my part, in that when youve got a ton of RAIDs going and you lose disks frequently, statistically theyre still doing better than drives in desktop machines. Still, its really rare to lose a desktop drive


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## a68oliver (Jul 15, 2000)

Another testimonial. I purchased my Tivo S1 in May of 2000 and it has been in continuous use except for brief power outages and reboots. So far no drive or any other problems.

Oh! I guess I shouldn't have said that. Now I can expect a failure tomorrow.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

And just to be clear, you've let it run that 30 minute live TV buffer the whole time?


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## miadlor (Sep 4, 2003)

JS2003 said:


> You are correct, the thing records 24/7, whatever is on the channel Tivo is set to.
> 
> You could turn it off when you're not watching or recording, but (for many of us) that defeats one of the nice things about Tivo - it's always working, and you don't have to remember to turn it on, record a show, etc.


The old Panasonic Showstoppers for ReplayTV worked just like a vcr.(maybe all ReplayTVs worked this way)
They could be turned off and would turn themselves on when they needed to record.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Puppy76 said:


> And just to be clear, you've let it run that 30 minute live TV buffer the whole time?


I'm guessing that less than 5% of TiVo owners are even aware that that's an option.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I've never understood why Tivo's don't do that too. Shut down the drive, the fan, and as many chips as possible (or put them in a lower power state), and just "wake up" when it needs to record, or download guide date or whatever.

(But just to be clear, I'm specifically asking about the affects of having Tivo record and play 24/7 versus being on, but tuned to a non-existent channel.)


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Probably the most significant thing that you can do to make your drive last longer is to keep the unit cool. Don't put it on or under anything hot, make sure it has good airflow, keep it in a well-ventilated cabinet where it won't suck in so much dust. If you get a bigger disk this is doubly important because the higher-density disks (in my experience) are much more sensitive to heat. Weaknees has kits that increase your unit's cooling capacity. Consider installing one of those when you add the bigger drive.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

dgh said:


> I'm guessing that less than 5% of TiVo owners are even aware that that's an option.


You mean that it's an option (in a roundabout way) to shut it off?



ChuckyBox said:


> Probably the most significant thing that you can do to make your drive last longer is to keep the unit cool. Don't put it on or under anything hot, make sure it has good airflow, keep it in a well-ventilated cabinet where it won't suck in so much dust. If you get a bigger disk this is doubly important because the higher-density disks (in my experience) are much more sensitive to heat. Weaknees has kits that increase your unit's cooling capacity. Consider installing one of those when you add the bigger drive.


Hopefully mine's okay. It's in an ancient stereo glass case with an open back, and there's nothing on it, and it's not sitting on anything.  (My router and cable modem are on the shelf below it, but they're not touching it.)


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## 74opus (Jul 13, 2004)

simonalope said:


> I suspect putting your TiVo on a UPS will do a lot more to protect the HD and extend its life than worrying about shutting off recording.


Agreed !!

Protect it from spikes/damage/heat and let it run !!


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## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

thats why i paid a little more (or in some cases less) for seagate hard drives. 5 year warranty is awesome in my book.
my 240 tivo has a maxtor and seagate drive. i'm waiting a little while for my current seagate rebates to come back ($100 total) then i will spend that money on a replacement for the maxtor drive and i'll use that maxtor as a drive in my computer or an external to hold excess files before i burn them to dvd


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

Really, the head seeks incur little wear. The main problem is failure to spin up or head crashes (head scratches platter). You can only avoid the wear on the spindle bearings by pulling the plug. IMHO, it's not worth trying to make it "inactive" by changing to a nonexistent channel.


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## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

alansh said:


> Really, the head seeks incur little wear. The main problem is failure to spin up or head crashes (head scratches platter). You can only avoid the wear on the spindle bearings by pulling the plug. IMHO, it's not worth trying to make it "inactive" by changing to a nonexistent channel.


i remember reading a technical manual that said that it caused more wear and tear on the motor/bearings to start and stop a hard drive compared to letting it constantly run.
who knows, it will always be a mystery...unless mythbusters does something, but it could take years to get real results.
some drives die the first day...some in a couple of months...some go on seemingly forever.
when i first got my series 1 tivo. it came with 2 nikimi drives. it lasted about a year, then i got the gsod. i took out the drives and replaced it with a hitachi deskstar (still works great a year and a half later)
one of those nikimi drives died 2 weeks after being in my computer. the other nikimi drive is still in my computer working fine...i don't know, it's a mystery


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

FYI I've set up three manual recordings to shut down my Tivo's reading/writing. I set them up as 5 minutes long (the shortest I could go) at 10pm (to shut it down after prime time) 12:40 (to shut down after Conan), and 4pm (to shut down after the repeat of Conan or most other stuff that gets taped overnight)>
I've put the three recordings at the lowest possible priority.

Between those three manual recordings, I'll be saving a minimum of > 75 hours a week of reading and righting to the drive.

The only strange thing this does is turn on the red recording light and show the non-existant show in "Now Playing" for the 5 minutes the "recording" lasts. (Presumably the tuner won't be damaged by manually "recording" a non existant channel-if anything I hope it'll take a tiny amount of wear off the tuner too.)

When I get a dual tuner Tivo I guess I'll have to set up twice as many manual recordings-one for each tuner.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

How does this stop the drive from reading/writing?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

By forcing it to a non-existant channel (in this case, '0') it turns off the constant reading and writing the drive normally does. Maybe that won't really help extend the life of the drive, but I bet it will. 

The cynic in me thinks there's no real option to shut that down so that it wears out Lifetimed Tivos faster


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## Sirshagg (Dec 27, 2001)

New drives are cheap. Just bought a 300gb drive for $79 and got it setup/installed in my tivo in less than 15 minutes


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