# TiVo Desktop - Java certificate expired



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TiVo installs a Java certificate with TiVo Desktop. That certificate has expires. Its validity dates are:


> [From: Tue Oct 31 19:00:00 EST 2006,
> To: Fri Oct 31 19:59:59 EDT 2008]


This may be why the TiVo Desktop Photo HME application redownloads every time TiVo Server runs.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

morac said:


> TiVo installs a Java certificate with TiVo Desktop. That certificate has expires. Its validity dates are:
> 
> This may be why the TiVo Desktop Photo HME application redownloads every time TiVo Server runs.


I'd wondered about the redownloads myself but they weren't happening regularly. Come to find out that it is known and being worked on at a very unhurried pace. Considering how long it has been expired, I'm surprised this didn't come up sooner.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

TiVoJerry said:


> I'd wondered about the redownloads myself but they weren't happening regularly. Come to find out that it is known and being worked on at a very unhurried pace. Considering how long it has been expired, I'm surprised this didn't come up sooner.


Well I find it doesn't always redownload so it might not be related to the expired certificate. Actually I'm not sure what effect the expired certificate has, if any, since the program still runs fine. I just thought I'd mention it.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

TiVoJerry said:


> it is known and being worked on at a very unhurried pace


That's such a great quote. I'll have to make a mental note of it for future use.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Yeah it pretty much seems to fit more and more companies these days which is sad. It does beg the question though then is anything being worked on in a hurried pace?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> It does beg the question though then is anything being worked on in a hurried pace?


Probably the next big ad push.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

davezatz said:


> That's such a great quote. I'll have to make a mental note of it for future use.


It's not patented so feel free to use it. Just don't quote me as the source!


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

TiVoJerry said:


> It's not patented so feel free to use it. Just don't quote me as the source!


Well, I was planning to save the quote for a post on the MIA Blackberry software announced last fall. But I found a better use for it given yesterdays legal complaints. Sorry and thanks. 



> TiVos quarterly call was a bit more dramatic than usual. While they continue to lose customers and innovate at a very unhurried pace, TiVo seeks a repeat DISH Network performance by going after AT&T (T) and Verizon (VZ) for infringement.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Your article, and now a slashdot post of it, links back to this page. I don't think it's fair to link to this page out of context as it is basically quoting me on a subject I was not addressing. An expired certificate has nothing to do with "innovation".

Now I see what happens when I try to play nice. I, too, will make a mental note for the future.


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

Jerry is right. 

Dave, I'm not sure what you were thinking. By linking back here you not only used Jerry's quote out of context, you also ignored his specific request above: "don't quote me as the source". Antics like this just discourage the TiVo folks from participating in these forums. 

Jerry, thank you very much for your participation here, it is appreciated.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

spocko said:


> Dave, I'm not sure what you were thinking. By linking back here you not only used Jerry's quote out of context, you also ignored his specific request above: "don't quote me as the source". Antics like this just discourage the TiVo folks from participating in these forums.


I wouldn't call it antics. It's a direct quote from a company rep on a public forum. However, I too have appreciated TiVo's contributions on the forum over the years and wouldn't want to see that degraded. I had a phone conversation with TiVo on this matter and we agree to disagree on the appropriateness of of my citation. However, at their request, I have removed the link and quotation marks. I'm only partially unreasonable.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

davezatz said:


> I wouldn't call it antics. It's a direct quote from a company rep on a public forum. However, I too have appreciated TiVo's contributions on the forum over the years and wouldn't want to see that degraded. I had a phone conversation with TiVo on this matter and we agree to disagree on the appropriateness of of my citation. However, at their request, I have removed the link and quotation marks. I'm only partially unreasonable.


Since it's already on Slashdot as the original way you posted it, it's a little late to change it. The cats already out of the bag.

The quote had nothing to do with innovation or the law suit, so it was way out of context. That would be similar to me taking your quote above and mangling it to say 'Dave Zatz believes that TiVo is "unreasonable"' when you said nothing of the sort.

You'd also be wise to take note that defamation applies to all written words, including blog posts.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

davezatz said:


> I wouldn't call it antics. It's a direct quote from a company rep on a public forum. However, I too have appreciated TiVo's contributions on the forum over the years and wouldn't want to see that degraded. I had a phone conversation with TiVo on this matter and we agree to disagree on the appropriateness of of my citation. However, at their request, I have removed the link and quotation marks. I'm only partially unreasonable.


Your actions were way over the top, totally inappropriate. You definitely quoted TivoJerry out of context and you've most likely "poisoned the well" as to his continuing to post here.

Just to engage in a little hyperbole: *"You stabbed TivoJerry in the eye with an icepick!"*. Don't like my characterization of your actions? IMO it's no more "antics" than what you actually did.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

morac said:


> You'd also be wise to take note that defamation applies to all written words, including blog posts.


That refers to a "High Court" aka UK ruling.

Perhaps more relevant would be the recent "skanks" battle in New York. Although that also might not be very relevant, since presumably there is no real "anonymity" on TiVoCommunity (if I were running it I wouldn't hesitate to quickly respond to a subpoena!)


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

morac said:


> Since it's already on Slashdot as the original way you posted it, it's a little late to change it. The cats already out of the bag.


Agreed. I'm comfortable with the way it was originally written and the point Jerry helped me convey, but TiVo requested the change and I complied.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> You definitely quoted TivoJerry out of context and you've most likely "poisoned the well" as to his continuing to post here.


This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. TiVo very well knows this forum is public and it's why there's only a handful of folks out of several hundred employees authorized to post here. I've been quoting them for years. Plus Charter employees on AVS, Sling employees on their forums, etc. It's where a lot of the interesting discussion occurs, places where mainstream media rarely treads. (No one ever seems to mind when the coverage is positive...  )

It's obvious there's a contingent who think I crossed a line. So I'd like to apologize for putting Jerry in any sort of awkward position when he was just being frank/authentic with us and maybe trying to be a bit funny.


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## pianoman (Jun 27, 2002)

Absolutely over the line and unnecessary. I'm not sure I would have responded as civilly as Jerry did.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

davezatz said:


> This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. TiVo very well knows this forum is public and it's why there's only a handful of folks out of several hundred employees authorized to post here. I've been quoting them for years. Plus Charter employees on AVS, Sling employees on their forums, etc. It's where a lot of the interesting discussion occurs, places where mainstream media rarely treads. (No one ever seems to mind when the coverage is positive...  )


It would be one thing if you used the exact quote as it was made. It would be against Jerry's wishes, but at least it would be accurate. You took two words from the sentence and completely changed the meaning. Even that wouldn't have been too terrible, but then you linked back to the quote.

As such you made it look like Jerry was condoning your stance that TiVo's only way to make money is through "patent trolling". That in itself is a ridiculous claim in itself, which a number of people on Slashdot have pointed out, but it's made worse by tying it to Jerry.

If you can't see why that's wrong, well then I don't know what else to say. I would have thought that you would have learned not to do things like this though after you got someone fired.


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

davezatz said:


> I'm comfortable with the way it was originally written


Wow. I'm dumbfounded by that statement ...



davezatz said:


> and the point Jerry helped me convey


and that assertion.

The fact is that Jerry didn't "help" you convey anything. You took a phrase that he had used, put it into a completely different and unrelated context, and then attributed it back to him. That was not "quoting" him, it was putting words into his mouth that he never spoke. That would not be ok even if you were saying positive things about TiVo. If you want to keep writing for a public audience, and if you want to maintain any credibility, then you might benefit from a review of journalistic ethics.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but consider the fact that the consensus opinion both here and on your blog is that you did cross a line. It's not just a small "contingent" of Tivo fans.


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## raitchison (Mar 3, 2003)

Dave you know I've been following what you write for years, but I felt the need to come in here to add my voice to the chorus saying that your quoting Jerry completely out of context as you did, regardless of whether or not he agreed to be quoted, was completely at totally over the line.

You say there's a "contingent" of people who disagree with your quoting as you did, I've yet to see anyone step in to say that it was in any way appropriate, proper or fair to use that quote like that.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Dave, what you did was totally out of line. You're right that I was trying to be frank and funny, and you turned it around and used it to stab me in the back. I'm catching a lot of flak for no good reason thanks to your inappropriate behavior. 

Apology not accepted.


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

raitchison said:


> Dave you know I've been following what you write for years, but I felt the need to come in here to add my voice to the chorus saying that your quoting Jerry completely out of context as you did, regardless of whether or not he agreed to be quoted, was completely at totally over the line.
> 
> You say there's a "contingent" of people who disagree with your quoting as you did, I've yet to see anyone step in to say that it was in any way appropriate, proper or fair to use that quote like that.


+1

I thought Dave was a credible blogger and trusted his comments until this.


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## JimBobJoeBob (Aug 29, 2009)

nhaigh said:


> I thought Dave was a credible blogger and trusted his comments until this.


Dave takes money from Sling, which is to say EchoStar, so you can basically assume that he'll do anything he can to help destroy TiVo, discredit its employees, or spread FUD. If his pride over this little hatchet job doesn't prove that to you, nothing will.


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

I am surprised at Dave's actions. I will think twice now about anything I read at his blog. I counted on your blog since Megazone's Gizmo Lovers hasn't been updated in months.

Dave - Was the use of the quote and your defense of it worth the grief your getting?


Bonanza


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Dave - I've lost all respect for you.

What you did was despicable, underhanded, and devoid of journalistic integrity or integrity of any sort.

If you can't see why so many people are so offended, and think what you did is in any way appropriate, you have serious issues.

Zatz Not Funny! indeed.


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

Jerry,
I've been away for a while, but I became aware of this situation through another board, and I can't say how sorry I am that a good-natured, self-deprecating post was used to make you and TiVo look bad. I know that your efforts here are greatly appreciated by many, many people on this board, and I hope your employers realize that, too, and understand that most of us know the difference between an offhanded joke and corporate policy.

To everyone else:
If you like having Jerry here, participating in the forum, say something. Now.

CB


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## FrodoB (Jan 3, 2005)

Please stay, Jerry. Dave's act was completely tactless and not in any way ethical. Your continued presence in these forums is most appreciated.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

nhaigh said:


> +1
> 
> I thought Dave was a credible blogger and trusted his comments until this.


+2

Will not be reading anything else from Zats any more.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Jerry asked you not to attribute the phrase to him. *quoting him was rude.*

You used the quote out of context. *That's dishonest and lacks integrity.
*



davezatz said:


> Agreed. I'm comfortable with the way it was originally written and the point Jerry helped me convey, but TiVo requested the change and I complied.
> 
> This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. TiVo very well knows this forum is public and it's why there's only a handful of folks out of several hundred employees authorized to post here. I've been quoting them for years. Plus Charter employees on AVS, Sling employees on their forums, etc. It's where a lot of the interesting discussion occurs, places where mainstream media rarely treads. (No one ever seems to mind when the coverage is positive...  )
> 
> It's obvious there's a contingent who think I crossed a line. So I'd like to apologize for putting Jerry in any sort of awkward position when he was just being frank/authentic with us and maybe trying to be a bit funny.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

JimBobJoeBob said:


> Dave takes money from Sling, which is to say EchoStar, so you can basically assume that he'll do anything he can to help destroy TiVo, discredit its employees, or spread FUD.


I voluntarily ended my employment with Sling in May, 2008. One of the reasons I cited was that I didn't care for Charlie Ergen's business practices. So while many of the other complaints/observations here are valid and I understand then, this point is inaccurate.


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## JimBobJoeBob (Aug 29, 2009)

davezatz said:


> I voluntarily ended my employment with Sling in May, 2008. One of the reasons I cited was that I didn't care for Charlie Ergen's business practices. So while many of the other complaints/observations here are valid and I understand then, this point is inaccurate.


From the "About" section on your blog:

"Periodically, Dave assists high tech startups, such as Sling Media and Dash Navigation, in producing and marketing cutting edge products."

"Periodically" implies an ongoing relationship. So you are either misrepresenting yourself here or on your own blog. Either way you seem to be honesty challenged as well as ethically challenged.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

ChuckyBox said:


> If you like having Jerry here, participating in the forum, say something. Now.


Nice to ysee you back ChuckyBox. I could not agree more. We need Jerry here.

TiVo, please don't let this unsavory act of Dave's prevent Jerry from doing the job he does so well.


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## Tivoli (Jan 24, 2002)

JimBobJoeBob said:


> From the "About" section on your blog:
> 
> "Periodically, Dave assists high tech startups, such as Sling Media and Dash Navigation, in producing and marketing cutting edge products."
> 
> "Periodically" implies an ongoing relationship. So you are either misrepresenting yourself here or on your own blog. Either way you seem to be honesty challenged as well as ethically challenged.


JBJB says it well.

Dave, you are fired! I am not going to read anything you write anymore.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Tivoli said:


> Dave, you are fired! I am not going to read anything you write anymore.


+1.

Please stay, Jerry!


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

*We now return this thread to its normally scheduled programming* (_original subject_).

We updated the certificate a little while back but I waited to post until the knowledge article was published. If the app tries to download on its own, it will get the new cert. If you want to make it happen manually, check out the section titled "My PC is trying to reinstall the 'Preview Photos 2.0' application" of our online article. It shows you how to delete the current Java app so you can download the newest version.

I know this hasn't been a particularly intrusive symptom but thank you for your patience.


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## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks for the update Jerry!


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