# Homeland Season 7 (2018) *spoilers*



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

The penultimate season of Homeland premiered tonight. Before it started, I wondered if it had run its course, as I wasn't excited upon its return. But after the first hour, I'm hooked again. Quick start to setting up the season premise, and in typical Homeland fashion, we're off and running.

Will Saul end up as the NSA? Were the police really helping O'Keefe, the radio guy? Is Wellington, the Chief of Staff, going to play both sides? Will Frannie ever speak?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

astrohip said:


> Will Frannie ever speak?




to be completely fair, she said "mommie" last season...


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Ending of ep1 was what I expected, but where's Dar Adal?
(O'Keefe is a warning that you'll get fat eating too much fast food)


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I was a little surprised at two things. One, at the sentencing hearing, he's still referred to as General (except by the President) and he still is wearing the uniform? WTF? He was convicted of attempting a government overthrow, using the military.

And second, since it was a crime of high treason, I doubt there'd be any question of him being executed.

The Alex Jones radio guy irritates me. OTOH, it is rather interesting how last season was a lot about Russian disinformation farms. They do seem rather current in events.

How did Carrie still have pull to get Max into the house? It seems unlikely that the rest of the team was there "to sweep for bugs" (and if they were, then that's really sloppy writing to not notice the new guy actually installing bugs). It looked like a team of about 15, presumably FBI guys.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> One, at the sentencing hearing, he's still referred to as General (except by the President) and he still is wearing the uniform? WTF? He was convicted of attempting a government overthrow, using the military.


I'm guessing, since I know nothing of military tribunals, that until he's actually sentenced, not just convicted, he retains his uniform & title. When he was being admitted to prison, he wore a uniform without rank.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> How did Carrie still have pull to get Max into the house? It seems unlikely that the rest of the team was there "to sweep for bugs" (and if they were, then that's really sloppy writing to not notice the new guy actually installing bugs). It looked like a team of about 15, presumably FBI guys.


I was also wondering about how Max was there. At the end if S6 he hacked into O'Keefe's server, so maybe he was hired as a consultant and then reached out to Carrie?


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

GREAT first episode of the new season. I'm hooked!! The time went very fast. Looking forward to the rest of the season!

Gerry


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Will Frannie ever speak?





NorthAlabama said:


> to be completely fair, she said "mommie" last season...


I think Frannie & Maggie Simpson have the same agent.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I think Frannie & Maggie Simpson have the same agent.


And Liam from Shameless! Although he might have got a new agent this year.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

Oh, my Gosh!
They killed T-bag! 
YOU BASTARDS!


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

My memory needs refreshing. Who exactly is Carrie spying on (vice president?) and why?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jamesbobo said:


> My memory needs refreshing. Who exactly is Carrie spying on (vice president?) and why?


The Chief of Staff, presumably to find out more about what's going on with the President (whose home would probably be a little more difficult to surveil )


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

Regina said:


> Oh, my Gosh!
> They killed T-bag!
> YOU BASTARDS!


And cause of death appeared to be the same as that used against Marilyn Monroe! At least according some speculation.

Really liked the episode.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

who or what the heck is T-Bag? Was the only one killed the general? Was Marilyn Monroe poisoned?


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

The actor who plays the General also appeared as T-Bag in Prison Break. A very interesting character.

The MM reference is to implications by Giancana et al in how she died, a fatal suppository to the anus that can make the death look natural. I think her legal cause of death was drug overdose, even though there was little evidence of drugs in her system.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

efilippi said:


> The actor who plays the General also appeared as T-Bag in Prison Break. A very interesting character.
> 
> The MM reference is to implications by Giancana et al in how she died, a fatal suppository to the anus that can make the death look natural. I think her legal cause of death was drug overdose, even though there was little evidence of drugs in her system.


I thought they had poison on the gloves when they clearly showed them holding the General's tongue with a gloved hand while looking in his mouth. When they let go of his tongue, the General clearly swallowed immediately afterwards.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

And the glove was shown to be handled "with care" when disposed. The posion was on the glove.

...But where is Dar?


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

Poison on the glove makes more sense. 

No idea where Dar is but he must be persona non grata, no?


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> ...But where is Dar?


The last time he has been seen he was in prison at the end of last season. Saul went to visit him and promised to pass on a message to Dar's significant other.

My _guess_ is that Dar has since been transferred to a SuperMax prison.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I remember where he was last season, but how did he avoid "the glove". Wasn't he the architect of the failed coup? (Even though it went beyond what he planned?)


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> I remember where he was last season, but how did he avoid "the glove". Wasn't he the architect of the failed coup? (Even though it went beyond what he planned?)


Maybe Dar got the death penalty. The General was "gloved" after he didn't get the death penalty.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

He was in prison when we last saw him, so maybe we'll see a trial (military tribunal) for Dar.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Not liking where this is going this season.
This ep was not very good, from Saul finding O'Keeke by just having a heart-to-heart talk with the cop who moved him to another location to Carrie posting for info on a public chat room to her getting hacked and then her going to a meet without a gun.
Hope it gets better next week.


Spoiler



Looks like while Carrie is taking her meds, they may no longer be effective.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Not liking where this is going this season.
> This ep was not very good,


Holy hell, I couldn't disagree more! Just after two episodes, I love where this is going! It's good to see in focusing on domestic terrorism and our own F*'up government, instead of another season of olive-skined bad guys from Iran/Iran/Afghanistan/Syria/etc/etc/etc.

I thought the episode was really good. The only tiny nit I have is the "troll" could have been anywhere in the world, but just by dumb luck, he was within short driving distance of where Carrie was. Yeah, right.

She didn't take a gun because she knew this guy was some looser geek in a basement somewhere and she'd probably be able to defend herself and take him down easily. Which she did, handedly.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> from Saul finding O'Keeke by just having a heart-to-heart talk with the cop who moved him to another location


The cop was between a rock and a hard place-- they knew he was aiding and abetting a fugitive, a federal offense! His only currency at that point was to talk and cooperate with Saul to reduce his sentence (off-screen). Also, Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Hank said:


> I thought the episode was really good. The only tiny nit I have is the "troll" could have been anywhere in the world, but just by dumb luck, *he was within short driving distance of where Carrie was*. Yeah, right.
> 
> She didn't take a gun because she knew this guy was some looser geek in a basement somewhere and she'd probably be able to defend herself and take him down easily. Which she did, handedly.


Another point of disbelief I missed (too many in this ep), the troll was in her neighborhood. 
Carrie had no idea if he would be alone, not being armed (ankle holster) was beyond disbelief.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Hank said:


> The cop was between a rock and a hard place-- they knew he was aiding and abetting a fugitive, a federal offense! His only currency at that point was to talk and cooperate with Saul to reduce his sentence (off-screen). Also, Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia.


Exactly, so why did it take Saul to break him? Too neat, Saul becomes NSA director, first day, first assignment (which he disagrees with) is to find O'Keefe, which he does on his first day (or week, whatever).
That Saul found him so quickly should have the President suspicious that the FBI is helping O'Keefe as they was unable to do in (a year?) what Saul did in a day.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

O'keefe has been on the run for 60 days, not a year.

And we don't know he found O'keefe yet... he only got the guy to talk. By the time they get to where they dropped him off, Okeefe will obviously be gone.



Tony_T said:


> Carrie had no idea if he would be alone, not being armed (ankle holster)


She knows how to read people. You saw it on her face the instant she realized she could manipulate this guy via the webcam. And it worked and he played right into her hands. Sure, it was a huge risk, but what other choice did she have? Having all her hard drive content exposed and spending life in jail, along with Max? An there's no way she'd come up with $20,000 in 24 hours. And as a side note, even if she could come up with $20k, it would be pretty hard to convert that much USD to BTC in such a short period of time.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Hank said:


> O'keefe has been on the run for 60 days, not a year.


Wasn't certain, hence the ? (year?)
Did Saul still find out his location on his 1st day on the job, or was it day 2? 



Hank said:


> She knows how to read people. You saw it on her face the instant she realized she could manipulate this guy via the webcam. And it worked and he played right into her hands. Sure, it was a huge risk, but *what other choice did she have?*


Other choice was to be armed when she met him.
She's making rookie mistakes . Might be an indiction that her meds are not working (would explain her recklessness)


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I was kind of hoping that Carrie and the ransomware guy would wind up becoming a team and she would use him against the guvmnt.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Did Saul still find out his location on his 1st day on the job, or was it day 2?


Does it matter? He's a master negotiator. And they've only just begun to hunt for Okeefe. It's far from a done deal.



Tony_T said:


> Other choice was to be armed when she met him.
> She's making rookie mistakes .


 I don't believe that would have been a smart move, actually, because it increases the risk of the attacker taking the weapon and using it against her. It's not a rookie move by far.

She knows her hand-to-hand combat skills, and she was just relying on those. And it worked.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

zalusky said:


> I was kind of hoping that Carrie and the ransomware guy would wind up becoming a team and she would use him against the guvmnt.


Anything would have been better than the way this was written.

I am hopeful this season will be good. It's certainly full of interesting parallels to current events. But wow this episode was awful. I did laugh, however, when the radio dude (can't help but call him Alex Jones) had the gun recoil hit him in the head.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> It's certainly full of interesting parallels to current events.


Since the Madam President was elected before the current actual administration, and the writers fully expected to have a different outcome, if they went back to the drawing board and totally re-wrote what they planned for this current season?


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

I loved the episode. Ripping the tape from the camera was a wonderful way to say "this sh#t has to stop!" And her beating that creep really unleashed how I feel about hackers. Marvelous.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Hank said:


> Since the Madam President was elected before the current actual administration, and the writers fully expected to have a different outcome, if they went back to the drawing board and totally re-wrote what they planned for this current season?


This is totally what I think happened. The writers had to scramble to make the president character and her administration the crackpots and the crackpot radio host the person who knows the truth. It's been a comical juxtaposition to watch.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> . . . .
> Saul becomes NSA director
> . . . .


I don't think Saul is the NSA director. I think he was made the National Security Advisor.

Gerry


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Hank said:


> Since the Madam President was elected before the current actual administration, and the writers fully expected to have a different outcome, if they went back to the drawing board and totally re-wrote what they planned for this current season?


Not sure of the question, but the parallels I was talking about are the Russian troll farms and the Infowars dude (although as my wife pointed out, this Alex Jones is actually onto something).


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

Gerryex said:


> I don't think Saul is the NSA director. I think he was made the National Security Advisor.
> 
> Gerry


Correct. Saul is National security advisor.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> this Alex Jones is actually onto something


As much as you, me, and everyone else thinks it's an Alex Jones character, isn't O'keefe supposed to really be Rush Limbaugh? I'm pretty sure that's what the writers said at some point in the previous seasons.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i've been waiting for the back injury scene, followed by the shot of empty pill bottles scattered around the bed - last night we were _this_ close...

eta: i though i'd really been enjoying the _"fast out of the gate, we're off and running"_ pace this season until i read the posts here! 

admittedly, the hacker being able to travel so quickly carrie's home town, locate the abandoned warehouse, and set up in time to lure her over was convenient, but i assumed it was necessary in the set up of her current emotional state, to move things along (and i'm ok with that).



efilippi said:


> And her beating that creep really unleashed how I feel about hackers. Marvelous.


this, 100%.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

efilippi said:


> Ripping the tape from the camera was a wonderful way to say "this sh#t has to stop!"


I'm racking my brain to figure out what scene this refers to?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Also, I would be bet big money that her sister was going to walk in on her when she was topless in front of the webcam.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Hank said:


> Also, I would be bet big money that her sister was going to walk in on her when she was topless in front of the webcam.


Right! They kept on showing the open door.


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

Hank said:


> I'm racking my brain to figure out what scene this refers to?


She was sitting at her computer talking to the hacker, sort of sat back then reached forward and ripped the masking tape off the camera that was built into the top of the pc.


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

Hmm, don't seem to be able to edit a post? Anyway,I wanted to point out that her entire demeanor changed after taking off the tape. She became aggressive and started to take charge.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

yeah, she knew he had her over a barrel, so the cia training kicked in, and she attacked what she perceived could be a vulnerability, and it worked like a charm - then, her emotional state lapsed and she went overboard, going way too far.

i know the "good carrie, disturbed carrie" sub-plot is baked into the series, but i'm hoping they find a new and different twist this time.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

zalusky said:


> I was kind of hoping that Carrie and the ransomware guy would wind up becoming a team and she would use him against the guvmnt.


I suspect that's where they're heading. I mean, the whole ransomware thing was so out-of-the-blue, it HAS to be leading up to something.

And I'm not a ransomware guy, but it seems to me the way they showed it (both how it got installed and how it functioned) isn't in the same universe as the way it works. Maybe in the Prime universe, but...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

efilippi said:


> She was sitting at her computer talking to the hacker, sort of sat back then reached forward and ripped the masking tape off the camera that was built into the top of the pc.


Oh, that camera. I would have just called that a webcam.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

maybe he can hack into the cia to find at which black site dar's being held?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I'm not a ransomware guy, but it seems to me the way they showed it (both how it got installed and how it functioned) isn't in the same universe as the way it works. Maybe in the Prime universe, but...


That part seemed pretty realistic to me.. what parts didn't you think works like that in the real universe?

(Except the bs from Max about the encryption algorithm)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> That part seemed pretty realistic to me.. what parts didn't you think works like that in the real universe?
> 
> (Except the bs from Max about the encryption algorithm)


The launching of the malware from a jpeg, the hacker being able to access her computer directly. My understanding is that they have to trick you into launching a program (not a jpeg) in order to install it, and once it's installed NOBODY has access to the computer.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

What? You don't think it's possible to fool someone into launching an exe that looks like a jpg attachment? 

Hold on, I want to send you a nice jpg of the Brooklyn bridge.

She even told Max that she wasn't paying attention and just opened it.

Once she ran the payload, it's game over any yes the troll/hacker would have complete control of her computer. And Carrie and Max didn't have access to the computer.

Obviously the hacker has the decryption key so he can have free reign while nobody else does.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> What? You don't think it's possible to fool someone into launching an exe that looks like a jpg attachment?


I don't think it's possible to fool a CIA spy into it, no.

I mean, I'm not a CIA spy, and the way I have my computer set up no executable would ever look like a JPEG. Not only is Carrie a CIA spy, but she's an especially paranoid one.

I just don't buy it...that whole storyline was designed to get a result against all logic, and that's why I think we haven't seen the result yet. Either that, or the writers know nothing about computers and malware (which is possible, but I'm betting on the result theory). Let's face it, the moment that malware screen popped up she should have instantly powered down the computer and turned off her internet router. There's no way he should have had access to the computer long enough to download the entire contents of her hard drive. And I still don't think a computer that's been locked by malware can be accessed by anybody, even the guy who created the malware. They don't even know that they've landed a sucker until they get the request for the unlock key.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

You're missing the bigger picture. She's very unstable. Not completely with it. To the point of taking a photo from an illegally placed surveillance camera at the White House Chief of Staff's house, and posting it on 4CHAN! She's terribly desperate to crack this case wide open. And when she saw that someone might know who it is, her illness, lack of sleep, and curiosity got the best of her and she just opened an attachment spoofed to look like a jpg (I don't know why you think that's so hard to do) -- come on, seriously, it's 4CHAN after all.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Let's face it, the moment that malware screen popped up she should have instantly powered down the computer and turned off her internet router.


You're obviously not paying attention. The ransomware clearly said that any attempt to power-down or disconnect the computer would result in permanent data loss. That's how they work. And yes, in the time she had to run downstairs, argue with her sister, and see her daughter off to school is more than enough time for the troll/hacker to download enough information to see what he's got. And then there's a lapse of time to the time Max came over to help, and all the time they're talking to him -- ALL THAT TIME is more then enough to download several gigabytes of data... and it doesn't take very long to find where a typical user keeps all their important documents and only download that info, and not their itunes/music, photos, or videos directories. And yes, like I said, all the files on the computer are encrypted, and since he has the encryption keys, he can EASILY open/view/download anything on the computer, decrypt them on his end, and do what he wants.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> . And I still don't think a computer that's been locked by malware can be accessed by anybody, even the guy who created the malware.


Still makes ZERO sense... if he truly can not access the computer, even "the guy who created the malware" (it's actually ransomware, not malware) how do you think he gets access to un-encrypt the files once the ransom is paid? It's all done remotely.

The ONLY thing that doesn't make sense in this entire scenario is that she didn't have any malware/virus detection running on her computer to prevent an unauthorized executable from running.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> , and the way I have my computer set up no executable would ever look like a JPEG.


It was a 4CHAN web page. It's the wild-wild-west (worse even). Nothing on your computer would have control over how a website renders an image like that in a web browser.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, I guess I'm more clever than a CIA spy. But no way could they trick me with that fake jpeg, even on my worst day. First, it was clearly not an image. Second, when I click on an executable, Windows asks me what I want to do with it...specifically, where I want to save it (it used to ask me if I wanted to run it, but I don't think that's an option any more, and I had it default to save anyway; I doubt very much a paranoid CIA spy would do otherwise).

If somebody answered a question with an image that wasn't actually an image, I wouldn't ever click on it no matter how out of it I was; I would ask myself "Why on Earth is he answering my question with an image that won't display?" and then hover the cursor over the thing to see what it really was.

I think they just wanted to get the hacker, or more likely his computer, into Carrie's hands, and they didn't want to spend the time coming up with a plausible scenario.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Again, you're still projecting what YOU would do... but you seem to be rejecting the fact that it is TRIVIAL to have a website like 4CHAN show you an icon that LOOKS LIKE AN IMAGE (without actually displaying the image) and have you download and execute it. You might THINK you'd never fall for it, but lots and lots of people who say and think that still do it anyway. That's why these ransomware attacks still happen. Because they trick unsuspecting people into launching the executable.

Given her state of mind, illness, and the fact that her meds are probably no longer be working, I find it completely believable/plausible that she quickly clicked on a link that ran some ransomware.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> and then hover the cursor over the thing to see what it really was.


Like this isn't spoofable? Do you not understand how HTML/web browsers work?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sorry, don't buy it. I think paranoid Carrie would be WAY too security-conscious to fall for that. It DIDN'T look like an image. And the way they showed it, even if she broke deeply-rooted security protocols and accidentally clicked on an executable, nothing would have happened...her computer never asked her for permission to run the program.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> Like this isn't spoofable? Do you not understand how HTML/web browsers work?


Yes, I do. The link can be spoofed, but the underlying file can't be (otherwise it wouldn't run).


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes, I do. The link can be spoofed, but the underlying file can't be (otherwise it wouldn't run).


But you said you would "hover over the image" to see what it really is. BZZZZ.. Wrong answer.

Look at this: How to Hide a Virus Inside of a Fake Picture « Null Byte :: WonderHowTo

or this: GitHub - r00t-3xp10it/FakeImageExploiter: Use a Fake image.jpg (hide known file extensions) to exploit targets


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> But you said you would "hover over the image" to see what it really is. BZZZZ.. Wrong answer.
> 
> Look at this: How to Hide a Virus Inside of a Fake Picture « Null Byte :: WonderHowTo
> 
> or this: GitHub - r00t-3xp10it/FakeImageExploiter: Use a Fake image.jpg (hide known file extensions) to exploit targets


The first link is interesting, but I can't get it to do anything useful. I renamed an .exe file using the Unicode method and tried linking to it on one of my web sites, but I couldn't get the link to work (the Unicode apparently broke the link). So I just emailed it to myself, and my ISP bounced it ("This message was blocked because its content presents a potential security issue.") So then I just opened the email from my Sent folder, and the attachment was clearly labelled as an .exe even though in Explorer it shows up with the altered name.

The second one looks like it depends on "hide known file extensions" to operate? If so, it wouldn't work if you have that unchecked, which I do (and I'm sure Carrie does as well).

My hope was that I could try to run the "jpg" either from Firefox or from Thunderbird without being asked what I want to do with the file, but so far I haven't seen it do anything that would trick me...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> (the Unicode apparently broke the link).


Your website isn't configured correctly for unicode.

These are just two examples I found by using Google for 3 seconds. I'm sure there are many other ways to do the same thing.

The point is, it's possible, and it's done all the time to spread ransomware like these to UNSUSPECTING people. As I already demonstrated, Carrie was not being her ex-CIA, paranoid self. She's the manic, bi-polar, lithium-treated-but-not-working, desperate-to-bring-down-the-government, completely irrational Carrie.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

That she would go alone, *unarmed* into an unlit warehouse shows that her therapist is right that her meds are no longer effective as she is being reckless.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

It's possible she brought the gun in her bag or jacket she had to ditch in the car. But she still had to confront the troll so she decided to finish the job and take the risk without it.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Carrie's plan depended up lulling the troll into a false sense of security. Carrying a weapon into the meeting would very likely be discovered and ruin the element of surprise. Social engineering the social engineer defeated him in his home territory and was surely a more convincing defeat than brandishing a weapon. And if had Carrie brought a weapon she would not have had the opportunity to convincingly beat the snot out of him.

Instead of defeating him with a gun or a knife, she beat him with guile and physical skill.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

^^^^ agreed.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Going in unarmed and *without letting Max know* shows that she is reckless without proper meds.

A lot of defense here for Carrie going into a warehouse unarmed, but she didn't even let Max know what she was planning (and Max had just as much to loose as Carrie)

My guess is that the next ep will have Carrie realizing that her therapist is right regarding her meds being ineffective when she analyzes how she handled the hacker (as well as how she allowed it to occur)

....Still not liking this season so far, hope it gets better.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

If he really knew who she was, I don't think he would have agreed to a face-to-face meetup.

Like any other troll, he just wanted to get laid... and thought he could easily blackmail her into that.

And if he knew who she really was, he could have given her a little extension and extorted her out of a lot more money.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Nobody has an issue with the hacker conveniently living exactly where Carrie lives? What are the odds?!? LOL


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

pmyers said:


> Nobody has an issue with the hacker conveniently living exactly where Carrie lives? What are the odds?!? LOL


Right now we are assuming he is just some random hacker vs somebody specifically hired to target her. They could go 4 ways:

One and done
She uses his laptop to get the Chief of Staff
She starts working with him
He was hired and there is some big bad behind him


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> yeah, she knew he had her over a barrel, so the cia training kicked in, and she attacked what she perceived could be a vulnerability, and it worked like a charm - then, her emotional state lapsed and she went overboard, going way too far.
> 
> i know the "good carrie, disturbed carrie" sub-plot is baked into the series, but i'm hoping they find a new and different twist this time.


She's CIA b***h

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I'm not all that familiar with ransomware, but I would normally think of it as a hacker encrypting your hard drive, and forcing you to pay a ransom to unencrypt it.

But the hacker downloading her contents? And basically having a mirror copy of her laptop, where he basically recreates exactly what she's doing with it, all pretty much live, instead of the normal way you'd restore an image of a computer to another computer, not the one you are currently using.

-smak-


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

smak said:


> I'm not all that familiar with ransomware, but I would normally think of it as a hacker encrypting your hard drive, and forcing you to pay a ransom to unencrypt it.
> 
> But the hacker downloading her contents? And basically having a mirror copy of her laptop, where he basically recreates exactly what she's doing with it, all pretty much live, instead of the normal way you'd restore an image of a computer to another computer, not the one you are currently using.
> 
> -smak-


Perhaps we should consider extending the phrase to Ransom/Blackmail Ware


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

zalusky said:


> Right now we are assuming he is just some random hacker vs somebody specifically hired to target her.





zalusky said:


> He was hired and there is some big bad behind him


I don't see how this is even remotely possible. She posted an anonymous message to 4CHAN. There's no way they would know that particular message was from her. Unless the were *already* hacked into her notebook and watching every move. Which certainly is possible, but I don't think is the case here. He's not hired nor targeting her directly. I think it's "one and done" and they might do something with his notebook, but I even doubt that. Or possibly use his tools to load the ransomware onto Wellington's computer and get him to do something for the ransom (admit to murdering the general).



smak said:


> But the hacker downloading her contents? And basically having a mirror copy of her laptop, where he basically recreates exactly what she's doing with it, all pretty much live, instead of the normal way you'd restore an image of a computer to another computer, not the one you are currently using.


Why not? Tools like that have been around forever (see: Back Orifice - Wikipedia). I don't understand what you mean "_where he basically recreates exactly what she's doing with it, all pretty much live_"? He wasn't doing that.. he was downloading files or just opening files in the background on her computer over the connection he had (probably the former). He didn't need to take an entire hard drive image, download it, and restore it locally. I don't understand why you guys think that's so hard to do? Ever heard of Remote Desktop or VNC? Give me 10 minutes on RD or VNC and I'll find a trove of important files on any computer. And start downloading them. With custom written malware/ransomware, you could do all of that and more (automate file compaction and downloading/streaming). It's just not that hard.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

From: Ransomware - Wikipedia

How ransomware can access your files:

*Leakware (also called Doxware)
The converse of ransomware is a cryptovirology attack invented by Adam L. Young that threatens to publish stolen information from the victim's computer system rather than deny the victim access to it.[54] In a leakware attack, malware exfiltrates sensitive host data either to the attacker or alternatively, to remote instances of the malware, and the attacker threatens to publish the victim's data unless a ransom is paid. The attack was presented at West Point in 2003 and was summarized in the book Malicious Cryptography as follows, "The attack differs from the extortion attack in the following way. In the extortion attack, the victim is denied access to its own valuable information and has to pay to get it back, where in the attack that is presented here the victim retains access to the information but its disclosure is at the discretion of the computer virus".[55] The attack is rooted in game theory and was originally dubbed "non-zero sum games and survivable malware". The attack can yield monetary gain in cases where the malware acquires access to information that may damage the victim user or organization, e.g., reputational damage that could result from publishing proof that the attack itself was a success.*

Back to disguising an executable as an image:

*CryptoWall*
*Another major ransomware Trojan targeting Windows, CryptoWall, first appeared in 2014. One strain of CryptoWall was distributed as part of a malvertising campaign on the Zedo ad network in late-September 2014 that targeted several major websites; the ads redirected to rogue websites that used browser plugin exploits to download the payload. A Barracuda Networks researcher also noted that the payload was signed with a digital signature in an effort to appear trustworthy to security software.[82] CryptoWall 3.0 used a payload written in JavaScript as part of an email attachment, which downloads executables disguised as JPG images. To further evade detection, the malware creates new instances of explorer.exe and svchost.exe to communicate with its servers. When encrypting files, the malware also deletes volume shadow copies, and installs spyware that steals passwords and Bitcoin wallets.[83]

The FBI reported in June 2015 that nearly 1,000 victims had contacted the bureau's Internet Crime Complaint Center to report CryptoWall infections, and estimated losses of at least $18 million.[10]

The most recent version, CryptoWall 4.0, enhanced its code to avoid antivirus detection, and encrypts not only the data in files but also the file names.[84]*


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> I don't see how this is even remotely possible. She posted an anonymous message to 4CHAN. There's no way they would know that particular message was from her. Unless the were *already* hacked into her notebook and watching every move. Which certainly is possible, but I don't think is the case here. He's not hired nor targeting her directly. I think it's "one and done" and they might do something with his notebook, but I even doubt that. Or possibly use his tools to load the ransomware onto Wellington's computer and get him to do something for the ransom (admit to murdering the general).


I was wondering if it was her enemies behind it until she actually met the guy; that pretty much was the end of that theory.

But it HAS to be leading to something; otherwise, there's no reason for any of that stuff to have happened. I'm guessing she'll use the hacker tools from his computer to do something (or more likely, she'll give it to Max to do something with!).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...But it HAS to be leading to something; otherwise, there's no reason for any of that stuff to have happened. I'm guessing she'll use the hacker tools from his computer to do something (or more likely, she'll give it to Max to do something with!).


I agree with this. That's why Max specifically mentioned it was unbeatable...or however he phrased it.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Well, no more on the ransomware hacker this week. We'll see if that ever comes up.

Mixed feelings about this week's episode. Some good tension with her arrest. I've grown weary of manic acting, though. And it's night while whats-his-name (or job, for that matter, lol can't keep it straight already) is driving her back from the police. You would think that sis would be calling the police and just be super-pissed.

For the life of me I don't understand why the Chief of Staff is authorizing a military strike that the President has cancelled ("twice"). How is he getting out of that one? And what's the crime he just committed - seems treasonous.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

My guess is that the Chief of Staff will have some proof that the President ordered the murder of the General and use that as leverage.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Well, no more on the ransomware hacker this week. We'll see if that ever comes up.


I don't think it will. It was just a device to show just how unstable she is, and her "impulse control" is gone. It had to be dramatic enough that even she realizes she has a problem, whereas in other seasons, she denied it.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Tony_T said:


> My guess is that the Chief of Staff will have some proof that the President ordered the murder of the General and use that as leverage.


Heck, I thought HE was behind that? She said "handle it" and it looked like he did.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> I don't think it will. It was just a device to show just how unstable she is, and her "impulse control" is gone. It had to be dramatic enough that even she realizes she has a problem, whereas in other seasons, she denied it.


I still say his computer becomes important. Otherwise, why would they have bothered having her take it?


mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Heck, I thought HE was behind that? She said "handle it" and it looked like he did.


Yeah, she seemed genuinely surprised and appalled when she realized people would think he had been murdered (she didn't think it was true; just that people would believe it was).


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Heck, I thought HE was behind that? She said "handle it" and it looked like he did.


Under her order to "Handle it"
My guess he has proof of this order to protect himself.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I still find it unbelievable that using the military to attempt to overthrow the government and killing a boatload of people in that attempt wouldn't be an automatic sentence of death for treason.

As for the president, what we saw was her verbally telling him to handle it. Even if there were recordings of that, and even if the wink wink was implied, it seems unlikely that could ever be used against her.

And it seems she has good reason to be paranoid. When the general says he has to wait to hear it from the President, he's then told "she may change her mind by the morning" and it seemed obvious the General knew what was going on. He did insist on getting the authorization code (don't know if that's an actual thing) and I suppose the General could claim it came from the President.


----------



## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

I am continually amazed at Danes' acting chops.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I have never been a fan of Manic Crazy Carrie - so hopefully they move past that quicker than how long she keeps saying it is going to take to regulate her meds...


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> why would they have bothered having her take it?


Not everything has to mean something.

It was the logical thing to do. Otherwise as soon as she left, he could re-lock her computer and leave town.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

He downloaded her HD to his computer, that's why she took it (although there is no reason why he doesn't have another copy, hence her threat to him ("_I'm CIA *%^%#_") when she left.)


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Yeah, but she's not CIA. She's really a nobody now. She can't do anything with his DNA or his photo.

And he could still file assault and grand theft charges against her. By now he knows everything about her.

It's a done deal. She has more important things to worry about, like the President murdering the General. And get this -- maybe working WITH O'keefe to prove that. 

As Freud said, sometimes a banana is just a banana.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Wouldn't Carrie's fingerprints be in the system?


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> Wouldn't Carrie's fingerprints be in the system?


Yes? There was a quick scene of her strongly fighting being fingerprinted. Assuming when her friend got the charges those got removed.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

in the system? most definitely. readily accessible without proper security clearance? that's a good question.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I really hate thread-crapping but I swear this show loses me more and more every episode...I'd say for the last 2-3 seasons. It's still better than a lot of the crap out there so I keep watching.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

pmyers said:


> I really hate thread-crapping but I swear this show loses me more and more every episode...I'd say for the last 2-3 seasons. It's still better than a lot of the crap out there so I keep watching.


I certainly enjoyed season 1 the most. But these days, I no longer understand the "it's still better than a lot of the crap". If I wasn't enjoying it, there's so much good TV and streaming content and not that much time, so I'd bail on it. Maybe the once a week thing keeps me going. Some binging shows (the latter seasons of Kimmy Schmidt and Stranger Things and a few others) I stop after 1-3 non-enjoyable shows.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I certainly enjoyed season 1 the most. But these days, I no longer understand the "it's still better than a lot of the crap". If I wasn't enjoying it, there's so much good TV and streaming content and not that much time, so I'd bail on it. Maybe the once a week thing keeps me going. Some binging shows (the latter seasons of Kimmy Schmidt and Stranger Things and a few others) I stop after 1-3 non-enjoyable shows.


It's like staying in a bad relationship....you know it's bad but you just can't leave it 

I did really enjoy all the Sal stuff in this week's episode.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

pmyers said:


> It's like staying in a bad relationship....you know it's bad but you just can't leave it
> 
> I did really enjoy all the Sal stuff in this week's episode.


Yeah, the Saul story with the TV kook is pretty interesting. Especially now that Saul knows he did nothing to stop it, and in fact poured fuel on the fire by withholding info about their kid. Curious to see where they go with it.

I get tired of the Carrie bi-polar stuff, although this season's version is far more palatable than the all-out manic episodes of seasons past.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I wish I could comment on what I liked about the last ep, but there's more that I didn't.
The throw-back to Ruby Ridge was uninspired. Yes, they had to go in after the agent/hostage was shot, but not immediately, and not before they sent in a s*&% load of tear gas.
The Pres seemed to get over her Chief of Staff ordering an Air Strike against her orders, and illegally, rather quickly. At a minimum he should have been fired.
Carrie taking pills to offset other pills is ridiculous. The General (that attempted to kill the POTUS, and her, and killed Quinn) is already dead, what is the urgency that she couldn't wait to get her med situation resolved before getting to the bottom of him getting murdered (and why is _this_ important to her)?

Well, I liked that Frannie got more dialog


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I have to ask, can ANYBODY say "no" to Carrie?


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

I would like to think that no credible news organization would broadcast such a story without contacting the hospital first. I'm not saying it could never happen, I'd just like to think it wouldn't.


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> I would like to think that no credible news organization would broadcast such a story without contacting the hospital first. I'm not saying it could never happen, I'd just like to think it wouldn't.


Your assuming the militants were watching a credible news organization!


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

This is Homeland people! If you want reality...


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I enjoyed it - I thought this week's episode was good. Yes, I hear what you are all saying but they still do a great job of creating suspense even if you stop to think about any of it, it's ridiculous.

Do we know who the guy was that went into the hospital to take the photo of the kid? Have we seen him before?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i still say it's the fastest hour on tv...


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## swyman18 (Jan 7, 2016)

This may be a bit of a stretch, but I wonder if the father of the wounded kid didn’t really kill the FBI agent that was being held hostage. I watched that scene again and we only see the bullet exiting the wall on the other side. 

Also, how did the agent on charge know for sure that “he shot my guy”? Just because he heard a gunshot? We know he’s been itching to give the order to move in anyway, but still, he couldn’t have known for sure, right?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

swyman18 said:


> This may be a bit of a stretch, but I wonder if the father of the wounded kid didn't really kill the FBI agent that was being held hostage. I watched that scene again and we only see the bullet exiting the wall on the other side.
> 
> Also, how did the agent on charge know for sure that "he shot my guy"? Just because he heard a gunshot? We know he's been itching to give the order to move in anyway, but still, he couldn't have known for sure, right?


He's dead. They just didn't want to show an FBI agent being shot in the head on TV.

While there was no certainty his agent was shot, it made sense. They knew the false report was being aired, and that could lead to anger inside the compound. And it's unlikely they are shooting each other. And going in fast and furious like that, with no warning, didn't give the crazies any time to actually prepare for an assault (other than the prep they'd already done).


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

They knew he was shot from the listening device placed on the radiator by the EMS tech
They could have sent in tear gas.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I still love this show, even when it boarders on the ridiculous. I love how Carrie always thinks she is the only one who can do anything, and she always has men around her who enable her.

Claire Danes is so amazingly believable that anything she does seems to work. I think if anyone else played the role of Carrie, I would have bailed long ago.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Yeah, last night's episode was pretty ridiculous on several fronts ("the operation") that is.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

And yet we still watch...

I agree with all of this. It's ridiculous, yet Carrie (CD) sells it. It's one of the fastest hours on TV.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Wow! It's the Russians!
"Ripped from the headlines!"
"Sad"

I need to re-watch S1 to remind myself why I liked this show.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> I need to re-watch S1 to remind myself why I liked this show.


Just watch S1 of Billions. It's much better.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I like Billions, but Counterpart on Starz is better than both


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Tony_T said:


> I like Billions, but Counterpart on Starz is better than both


i've been hearing great things about counterpart, but i refuse to invest in another starz series, only to have them pull the plug. while i know it's unlikely given the good reviews, i've been fooled by starz so many times before, it's beginning to feel a little charlie brown/lucy/football at this point.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> i've been hearing great things about counterpart, but i refuse to invest in another starz series, only to have them pull the plug. while i know it's unlikely given the good reviews, i've been fooled by starz so many times before, it's beginning to feel a little charlie brown/lucy/football at this point.


Counterpart was ordered with a two season order right out of the pilot, so at a minimum, we will have a second season. It's worth a watch, excellent series. It started good, but turned great around E5/E6 (IMHO).


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

So - Carrie puts together a team for the operation... 
Did they all just do it out of the goodness of their hearts?
I didn't hear anything about how they were all being compensated...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> So - Carrie puts together a team for the operation...
> Did they all just do it out of the goodness of their hearts?
> I didn't hear anything about how they were all being compensated...


Well, as we've seen, nobody, but NOBODY, has the capability of saying "no" to Carrie Mathison...


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, as we've seen, nobody, but NOBODY, has the capability of saying "no" to Carrie Mathison...


We're all still watching, so even WE can't say no to her...


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> So - Carrie puts together a team for the operation...
> Did they all just do it out of the goodness of their hearts?
> I didn't hear anything about how they were all being compensated...


We had the same question. Also, how did Max get on a WH team (of what, FBI? Secret Service?) to "sweep for bugs" (meaning to plant bugs) into the chief of staff's house? I mean, that whole team had to be in on it. Where did they come from?

Still enjoying it though.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> So - Carrie puts together a team for the operation...
> Did they all just do it out of the goodness of their hearts?
> I didn't hear anything about how they were all being compensated...


That's what I was going to ask. Maybe, just maybe Max is doing the work because he has worked closely with Carrie before and feels its the right thing to do. But what about the other guys? When Carrie was talking to the main guy (the guy that punched the target in the gut) she asked how long he was out of work and I think he said 3 months. So he's going to do this job for no money? And there were 2 or 3 other guys who I would assume want to be paid also. And frankly Max probably wants to be paid too.

So assuming there had to be at least some money available to pay the team, where did it come from? A couple of episodes ago Carrie's sister confronted her saying that Carrie was $32,000 into credit card debt. So again where did ANY money for the operation come from?

Gerry


----------



## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

Carrie is broke so she isn't paying. My guess is that the guys are in for the action and any money is just a bonus. All old Agency guys, right? Some call it fun, teamwork. 

I find complaints about lack of realism to be way goofy. No TV show is realistic How boring would that be? 

I like this show, the way the action flips from place to place, no idea what is exactly going on. And Saul and Carrie are driving things forward. Yay.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

It's as ridiculous as the old 24 and a lot like it too.


----------



## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

Cainebj said:


> So - Carrie puts together a team for the operation...
> Did they all just do it out of the goodness of their hearts?
> I didn't hear anything about how they were all being compensated...


Maybe Dante Allen put in paperwork for a secret investigation and has funds from the FBI.


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Family said:


> It's as ridiculous as the old 24 and a lot like it too.


Considering that one of the creators of Homeland Howard Gordon was behind all the 24 incarnations I don't find it surprising.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Oleg Burov is back! 

Great episode.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Hah! I thought he looked familiar!


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I guess there aren't that many good actors that can play spies and speak fluent English and Russian.

I surely didn't recognize him in the previous episode where he took the photo in the hospital.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I feel dopey not seeing the FBI guy was nefarious. Saul is gonna be pissed that Carrie once again went rogue.


----------



## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I feel dopey not seeing the FBI guy was nefarious. Saul is gonna be pissed that Carrie once again went rogue.


Again I can't figure out why these guys are working with Carrie. I can't believe they ALL are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. If not then they are being paid by someone. But WHO?

Gerry


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> I feel dopey not seeing the FBI guy was nefarious.


That means the writers did a good job. And the actor sold it well. Does this not make it good TV?


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Hank said:


> That means the writers did a good job. And the actor sold it well. Does this not make it good TV?


Oh I definitely enjoy this show. My wife was thinking how nice Carrie has a new love interest.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Not sure "love" is the proper word there.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I have to say I really enjoyed this episode.

They did a great job of getting us to think what Carrie thought and then slowly reveal as she figured it out. 

The scene in the bar with the girlfriend making a scene on purpose and figuring out Dante is in on it - great TV. 

I knew once the guy went to the dock he was done for.
The entire Russian twitter social media thing is scaaaareeeeeey - cos it's probably true.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I did like the FBI agent twist.


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Hank said:


> I guess there aren't that many good actors that can play spies and speak fluent English and Russian.
> 
> I surely didn't recognize him in the previous episode where he took the photo in the hospital.


I didn't either. But the minute I heard the voice I got a huge grin on my face. 
"You say the Americans know I'm here?" I see what you did there, Homeland producers, I see what you did.

Dylan Baker was a great start to an Americans/Homeland migration. Now we have Costa Ronin. Anyone else? I'm in!!


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

There's also the _House of Cards _crossover with Elizabeth Marvel first playing a candidate for President... and then President.

Did anyone else notice several times _Homeland_ showed her motorcade, the background music was almost the identical bass line from HoC?


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Gerryex said:


> Again I can't figure out why these guys are working with Carrie. I can't believe they ALL are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. If not then they are being paid by someone. But WHO?


The FBI?
The Agent is dirty, not the FBI.
Was it the FBI that was 'sweeping' the Chief of Staff residence with Max when he installed the surveillance? Max keeps telling Carrie that she can't tell the FBI about the surveillance, but who got him into the home?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> The FBI?
> The Agent is dirty, not the FBI.
> Was it the FBI that was 'sweeping' the Chief of Staff residence with Max when he installed the surveillance? Max keeps telling Carrie that she can't tell the FBI about the surveillance, but who got him into the home?


Just taking a guess, but he could be on an approved third-party vendor list. They needed to sweep the place for bugs, so maybe they didn't have the in-house resources available, and called up some local vendors with security clearance to do it. That would explain why the agents there might not be wondering "wait, who's this guy?"


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

The scenes with Carrie and Sol are always my favorites.

So much subtext. Such great acting.


----------



## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

nyny523 said:


> The scenes with Carrie and Sol are always my favorites.


Carrie is always agitated and Saul is calm, cool and collected.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

When are we going to see Dar Adal again? 

Maybe he's the one behind the Dante group to frame Wellington.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I'm surprised that Dar wasn't on trial for treason (maybe he was?).


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

spoiler my friend, please.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Yeah, I always try not to view the previews at the end.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Not for future episodes.


----------



## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Hank said:


> Not for future episodes.


Ok I deleted my post.


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

jcondon said:


> Ok I deleted my post.


greatly appreciate it!


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Last night made me realize how much I miss the interplay between Saul & Carrie. Some of the earlier seasons where they worked together.

It's been said a thousand times, but last night just drove it home again: No one plays slightly crazed as well as Claire Danes.


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Poor Frannie.


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

So ready for this to end....it's getting tiresome.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I'm liking this season a lot. Russian disinformation campaigns? Fake news and kompromat? It is surprisingly topical. Almost a little scarily so. I like the interplay with Max this week. Sure, it's nuts that Carrie would take Frannie into danger, but Carrie _is_ nuts. I burst out laughing when there was FBI interruptus and then the look Saul gave Carrie. I think this show lost its way in the middle seasons, but I am liking this one a lot. Heck, even Frannie is ok as a kid actor, and I love the call-back to Brody.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I thought all the scenes with Dante and Carrie were amazing. Including both of them going out to check them out. The scene in the kitchen and the line between whether or not he was going to attack her or kiss her was great. Them coming in to take Dante down while they were having sex with Frannie in the bedroom. Loved it.


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

EEK. I first read that as they were having sex WITH Frannie.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> while they were having sex with Frannie in the bedroom


Yeah, grammar can be a *****.


----------



## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

On last night's ep (Lights, Amplifiers, F*** Twitter), Carrie broke my heart. What a performance by Claire Danes. I mean, I love me some Americans and always want Keri Russell to be recognized, but give Claire all the Emmys for this one-

Carrie loves Frannie enough to give her up - at least for a while. And that broke my heart. I felt it. 

And what a monologue trying to "break" Dante-I thought she had him.

And DAYUM-how hardcore was that to give him poison to get him to confess? 

REALLY enjoyed this ep-had me on the edge of my seat. LOVE when Carrie and Saul work together-


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Regina said:


> On last night's ep (Lights, Amplifiers, F*** Twitter), Carrie broke my heart. What a performance by Claire Danes. I mean, I love me some Americans and always want Keri Russell to be recognized, but give Claire all the Emmys for this one-
> 
> Carrie loves Frannie enough to give her up - at least for a while. And that broke my heart. I felt it.
> 
> ...


+1 every word you said. Amazing episode. I think I mentioned a few dozen posts back how much I miss Carrie & Saul together. It's the heart of what makes _Homeland_.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

But, she should have communicated that exact thing to her sister, when basically she just bailed.

Now the sister might try to get custody where Carrie should have just said, take Frannie, I have to finish up something important, than I will check myself in.

But overall, I think this season has been really good. One of the 2 or 3 best seasons of Homeland.

smak-


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I've been very critical of this show recently, but the last episode was very good. Maybe it's because Carrie and Saul are working together.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

The ending of the last episode with Carrie having all the flashbacks and nearly running over the kid was very well done (I suppose she could have actually run over the kid)...

On the other hand - the entire episode they show us a guard standing outside Dante's hospital room door who somehow mysteriously and conveniently is gone when the Russian shows up.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Maybe everything was an hallucination...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> On the other hand - the entire episode they show us a guard standing outside Dante's hospital room door who somehow mysteriously and conveniently is gone when the Russian shows up.


I almost never yell at the TV screen, but that scene was the worst!! After Oleg's Yvgeny's buddy tells him that the place is crawling with feds, high security, Dante is heavily guarded, IDs checked, yadda, yadda yadda... Oleg's Yvgeny just waltzes right into Dante's room without a single challenge or guard or officer nearby. What horrible writing! Not only that, they just said Dante was in "ER"... that last room he was in looked like a broom closet, not an ER room -- which are rarely rooms but beds separated by curtains. For an otherwise awesome episode (esp the end), they really dropped the ball on that one scene.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Yeah I wonder if she did run over Franny. 

So did I miss something or did the Russian kill Dante? Looks for sure he killed his partner.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

I enjoyed the manic episode, but getting to Dante was bad writing. If you come in, covered in blood, with another guy who's been shot in the gut, the police are going to be talking to you. Instead, the nice nurse said "come on, let's get you cleaned up." And then Yevgeny can not only walk into the room, but close the blinds and have lots of time for a chat and a phone call.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, somebody who is the sole witness in a treason case that can clear the President isn't gonna be at your local ER. He's gonna be in a military hospital behind multiple layers of the best security a Pentagon budget can buy.

I hadn't considered that Carrie actually ran over Frannie. Interesting idea.

I was thinking earlier in the episode, "Man, it's amazing how together Carrie is considering she's in the middle of a psychotic break being held off only by poorly-applied self-medication." I guess her mental state shifts for the convenience of the plot...


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Seriously, if she's hallucinating now, how do we know how much if what we've seen is real?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I LOL'd when Saul had to tell the Senator what UI meant


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> I LOL'd when Saul had to tell the Senator what UI meant


Especially since he (or somebody like him) is who labeled the Senator that in the first place! (Assuming they didn't intercept an actual Russian org chart...)


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Will the next episode open with Carrie spending a few days as an inpatient?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

What's amazing is how many people close to Carrie have died over the seasons. The woman is not a good luck charm.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> On the other hand - the entire episode they show us a guard standing outside Dante's hospital room door who somehow mysteriously and conveniently is gone when the Russian shows up.





Hank said:


> Yvgeny's buddy tells him that the place is crawling with feds, high security, Dante is heavily guarded, IDs checked, yadda, yadda yadda... Oleg's Yvgeny just waltzes right into Dante's room without a single challenge or guard or officer nearby.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, somebody who is the sole witness in a treason case that can clear the President isn't gonna be at your local ER. He's gonna be in a military hospital behind multiple layers of the best security a Pentagon budget can buy.


I thought this episode was one of the best . . . except for the above. I yelled at the TV how dumb it was that such an important witness had no guard outside his door. REALLY STUPID. But the rest of the episode was very good!!

I also was yelling at the TV when Carrie almost backed up into Franny. I really don't think she did and the images of a bloody Franny are just hallucinations.

Gerry


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Gerryex said:


> I thought this episode was one of the best . . . except for the above. I yelled at the TV how dumb it was that such an important witness had no guard outside his door. REALLY STUPID. But the rest of the episode was very good!!
> 
> I also was yelling at the TV when Carrie almost backed up into Franny. I really don't think she did and the images of a bloody Franny are just hallucinations.
> 
> Gerry


Agree with both of these. Amazing oversight on the writers part to not explain how Oleg got in the room so easily.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> Yeah I wonder if she did run over Franny.
> 
> So did I miss something or did the Russian kill Dante? Looks for sure he killed his partner.


Not sure if Dante is dead, but probably. His partner will survive -- it was a calculated shot to the belly, likely missing most vital organs.



Jon J said:


> Will the next episode open with Carrie spending a few days as an inpatient?


Or inmate.



astrohip said:


> What's amazing is how many people close to Carrie have died over the seasons. The woman is not a good luck charm.


I think that was the point of her flashbacks/hallucinations.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

astrohip said:


> Agree with both of these. Amazing oversight on the writers part to not explain how Oleg got in the room so easily.


Laziness, not an oversight.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

Why did they let Dante keep his cell phone? They took mine away when I spent a night in the hospital. The Russians being able to easily get to him was so stupid it is not worth discussing, but it made for exciting TV. Other than being "24" stupid at the end, a great episode.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Agree with both of these. Amazing oversight on the writers part to not explain how Oleg got in the room so easily.


OTOH the Russian spy who was recently poisoned just had a Russian TV crew sneak into their hospital: Russian TV crew slammed for sneaking into Skripal hospital


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Johnny Dancing said:


> The Russians being able to easily get to him was so stupid it is not worth discussing, but it made for exciting TV.


The next episode will have Saul's password to the CIA's top secret computer network written on a post-it note on his monitor: "5pygUy69"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> The next episode will have Saul's password to the CIA's top secret computer network written on a post-it note on his monitor: "5pygUy69"


What do you think this is, Ready Player One?!?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I hate when TV shows make me have to guess how long the time frame is between episodes. Why not just put "3 weeks later" at the bottom of the screen as the show opens. I spent all my time trying to figure it out!

Like everybody else said....good episode other than the hospital scene.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

So, they’re hurrying things along nicely now. 25th amendment, VP, going to Russia to bring back Oleg and Simone! Glad the way the Frannie thing ended. Hard to see how this could come to some resolution that helps the president get on with her job. It’s like matryoshka nesting dolls of constitutional crises.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I liked how they resolved the Franny story and let Carrie be Carrie. Otherwise her possibly getting her sister's medical license revoked woulda been pure evil.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

I must be alone but I am finding most of this season brutal to watch, particularly Carrie's scenes, which are the majority of it. And many of those involve her solidifying a mother of the year nomination. I do like Saul's scenes and hopefully there are more of those but I fear much more of crazy Carrie taking over.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> I liked how they resolved the Franny story and let Carrie be Carrie. Otherwise her possibly getting her sister's medical license revoked woulda been pure evil.


I doubt she ever intended to get the license revoked. I think she just planned to threaten it as leverage.

Which is still pretty nasty...


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I doubt she ever intended to get the license revoked. I think she just planned to threaten it as leverage.
> 
> Which is still pretty nasty...


I thinks she wasn't sure. She had the file with her and sat at the table during the break. She would have had to threaten her sister BEFORE that.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

jr461 said:


> I must be alone but I am finding most of this season brutal to watch, particularly Carrie's scenes, which are the majority of it. And many of those involve her solidifying a mother of the year nomination. I do like Saul's scenes and hopefully there are more of those but I fear much more of crazy Carrie taking over.


I doubt you're alone, but I am loving this season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jcondon said:


> I thinks she wasn't sure. She had the file with her and sat at the table during the break. She would have had to threaten her sister BEFORE that.


But just using it in court wouldn't help her much at all. It would just destroy the sister. Probably leaving Frannie in the system. I think she was just torn about using it at all (i.e., taking her sister aside and threatening her), and finally decided not to.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Yeah....I was waiting for her to use it in court and then BOTH of them lose custody. 

This president is becoming exactly what they were accusing her of.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> Yeah....I was waiting for her to use it in court and then BOTH of them lose custody.
> 
> This president is becoming exactly what they were accusing her of.


It's weird...she went from Strong Female Protagonist to complete nutjob, then much of the way back, and now heading back into nutjob territory. I think the character went completely off the rails when somebody unexpected won the US election, and the writers never recovered...


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I agree. I think Trump winning the election really had them scrambling!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's weird...she went from Strong Female Protagonist to complete nutjob, then much of the way back, and now heading back into nutjob territory. I think the character went completely off the rails when somebody unexpected won the US election, and the writers never recovered...


Translation: Bipolar


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

pmyers said:


> I agree. I think Trump winning the election really had them scrambling!


After Carrie's breakdown I was waiting for a doctor to ask her "What year is it? Who is the President?" To which she responds "2018, President Keene" and the doctor correcting her "No, Donald Trump" and Carrie says "Your kidding, right?"


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Wow, what an episode. All the pieces falling into place. But who the eff knows where they'll land.



Hank said:


> When are we going to see Dar Adal again?


There ya' go...


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

They definitely upped the budget on this episode.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

it took this roller coaster a while to crawl to the top, but once they released the brakes, it was a great ride. can't wait for the finale.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Somehow I don't think Max would be able to hack into the Russian traffic cams so easily.

Also, they're worried about RF eavesdropping in the hotel with the faraday cage, but then use wireless ear pieces (cellular?) out in the field anyway with Carrie and the whole ops team.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> Also, they're worried about RF eavesdropping in the hotel with the faraday cage, but then use wireless ear pieces (cellular?) out in the field anyway with Carrie and the whole ops team.


Also, Saul and Carrie go onto the roof to have their highly sensitive conversation, when they've been explicitly told the "safe room" is the only place they should talk.


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## swyman18 (Jan 7, 2016)

Hank said:


> Somehow I don't think Max would be able to hack into the Russian traffic cams so easily.
> .


Ugh yeah, it just seems so cheesy when you see that in TV/movies. Hacker guy pops open his laptop and has instant access to crystal clear building and traffic cams with both audio and video. Quick tap on the keyboard, and he can effortlessly follow any person or vehicle through the city.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

One of the worst "jump the shark" finales ever. 

I've compared it to 24 this season, but even Jack never had anything this bad. It's like the show should have ended an episode earlier.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm assuming the actress who played the president was not coming back, because her resigning made no sense at all. But glad we get to see more of Beau Bridges.

Crazy Carrie at the end reminded me of Helena from Orphan Black LOL


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I thought it was a good episode. The tension during the first half was reminiscent of early Homeland, where you really didn't know what was going to happen next.

And the Pres resigning made total sense. She finally realized it's not her against the world. Going to see her son's grave put it all in perspective. She also realized her paranoia led her to misjudge the VP, and make a bad situation worse. So when he came to her with his proposal, and upon reflection at Arlington, and then seeing the Jefferson/Washington memorials, she knew what she had to do.

The one thing I didn't like was the "seven months later" and Carrie having gone deep-end. I thought it was cruel to her, and unfair to us, to have her go thru a psychotic episode again. It's just not enjoyable.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

They made a big deal about giving back a certain Russian spy, I think the name was Goran? But I don't remember hearing that name before. Who was he?


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I waited and watched the last 2 episodes together last night. I loved it. (yea so much was ludicrous) but I still thought it was a thrill ride.

The President resigning made zero sense to me.
Carrie going without meds for 7 months was terrible.
I was really hoping the President was going to make a move to get her released immediately.

No way they actually shot in Russia, did they?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> No way they actually shot in Russia, did they?


Claire Danes was just on Howard Stern last week and she said they filmed in Budapest. She also mentioned she was pregnant when they filmed that sex scene.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Cainebj said:


> The President resigning made zero sense to me.


wishful thinking on the writer's part?


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I thought it was a good finale, though Carrie did look a little too comic-crazy at the end, bug eyes and all.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Not the best Season (IMO). Russian thing was boring. That they could hack into any Russian camera was ridiculous. Never explained how Max was able to just get into the Chief of Staff's residence with the FBI to put in cameras (and how Saul would just look the other way on this crime).

Hoping next Season is better.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Some interesting thoughts on the next (final?) season from the showrunner (apparently not much has been decided yet)...



Spoiler



Homeland Eyes Move to Israel, Major Time Jump for Final Season


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I know it's easy to say this after-the-fact, but as soon as she said she's going off-script, I had a feeling she was going to resign.

I think it was also Senator Paley's plea that contributed to it... is she really that much of a monster to destroy several other lives for something he really didn't do, but was manipulated into? Sure, he had it out for her, but as far as he knew, he was doing it above board. But I see why he had to be the fall guy. 

So in a case like this, say Pres Keene was #48. Is the VP then #49 for a week, and then is Keene #50 for a few days, and then the VP #51? Or is it just #48 and #49, then #48 and #49 again. Or 48,49,48,50? 

Or does the VP even count as a real President and get a seat in the Hall of Presidents? I guess so because they didn't know how long he was going to be president.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I hope Senator Paley's trial ends with a needle. He wasn't just a useful idiot; he actively conspired with the Russians to overthrow the president.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I don't think he actively conspired with the Russians. They just used him to advance the mission.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I hope Senator Paley's trial ends with a needle. He wasn't just a useful idiot; he actively conspired with the Russians to overthrow the president.


I don't think he did.
Paley's assistant (err,,Chief of Staff) went behind Paley's back and told the Russian Ambassador what was happening. Does she get a pass, or join him in the next cel?

Keene was out of control. Firing those she suspected would sign-on to the 25th amendment was enough to keep her impeached.

That one persons word (Simone, a captured Russian spy) was all that was needed to put Keene back as POTUS was ridiculous.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> I don't think he did.
> Paley's assistant (err,,Chief of Staff) went behind Paley's back and told the Russian Ambassador what was happening. Does she get a pass, or join him in the next cel?


But he let it happen (literally sat in the car while she committed treason), and didn't warn anybody.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But he let it happen (literally sat in the car while she committed treason), and didn't warn anybody.


She's an adult and acted entirely on her own. It's not up to him to stop her, he told her not to. After that, it's all on her. In fact, he should testify against her and let her rot in prison since he himself did not do anything. He was not privy to what she actually said to him, for all he knows, she could have asked him what time it was or where to get a good Reuben sandwich in this town.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> She's an adult and acted entirely on her own. It's not up to him to stop her, he told her not to. After that, it's all on her. In fact, he should testify against her and let her rot in prison since he himself did not do anything. He was not privy to what she actually said to him, for all he knows, she could have asked him what time it was or where to get a good Reuben sandwich in this town.


She was acting in his name, he let her, and he's a FRIKKIN' U.S. SENATOR! He has a higher standard of conduct than she does. Treason from a Senator is much more serious than treason from an aide.

And he did do something. He let it happen, and didn't warn the government that it was under attack and that he and his people were a part of it. He was an active collaborator in a Russian attack on the United States. Needle time.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

And yet Simone gets immunity?
Captured Russian spy agrees to testify for immunity and Keene is back in office based solely on her testimony? I mean, why should she lie?


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

I liked the finale and season overall.

I hope the first half of the next (and final) season isn't watching Carrie recover from her capture. I want to see her do what she does best...spycraft.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She was acting in his name, he let her, and he's a FRIKKIN' U.S. SENATOR! He has a higher standard of conduct than she does. Treason from a Senator is much more serious than treason from an aide.
> 
> And he did do something. He let it happen, and didn't warn the government that it was under attack and that he and his people were a part of it. He was an active collaborator in a Russian attack on the United States. Needle time.


I disagree he was an active collaborator. He might not have been able to stop her, and he doesn't know what she said, so he really couldn't turn her in on what he thinks she might have said. She can just deny it. Plausible deniability.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

markymark_ctown said:


> I liked the finale and season overall.
> 
> I hope the first half of the next (and final) season isn't watching Carrie recover from her capture. I want to see her do what she does best...spycraft.


That's exactly how I feel. I rather enjoyed this season, maybe the best since season 1. The topicality of Russian "active measures", social media bots and so on made it more interesting and scary. But crazy Carrie is tedious. It helped drive the Frannie storyline, but that too isn't interesting. And it certainly speaks to how she was tortured, to deny Russia "the seed" that Yevgeny would water.

I liked Keane's speech. I couldn't say in this fictional world if that would make a difference, but it's a bold move.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I did want to mention one of the most jarring moments to me was when Evugeny slugged Carrie after he realized she wasn't Simone - followed by that Linda Blair in Exorcist grin on Carrie's face when she knew the flight was in the air.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

markymark_ctown said:


> I liked the finale and season overall.
> 
> I hope the first half of the next (and final) season isn't watching Carrie recover from her capture. I want to see her do what she does best...spycraft.


Yeah I'm really hoping for a time jump that includes Carrie getting on the correct medication "cocktail". I really don't want to waste 1/4 of next season seeing her suffer and trying to get healthy.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

Hank said:


> I know it's easy to say this after-the-fact, but as soon as she said she's going off-script, I had a feeling she was going to resign.
> 
> I think it was also Senator Paley's plea that contributed to it... is she really that much of a monster to destroy several other lives for something he really didn't do, but was manipulated into? Sure, he had it out for her, but as far as he knew, he was doing it above board. But I see why he had to be the fall guy.


He did sit in the car while his aid went and Ratted out Saul, Carrie and their team. Potentially getting them detained or killed. He allowed this to happen after he knew the Russians were the bad guys. He also tried to get the VP (I guess he was President at the time) to screw over Saul's team and leave them in Russia. Paley at that point just wanted to stay out of jail and stay in power. He tried to convince to VP to do this so he could stay President.

I caught on a bit later then you that she was resigning.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> And yet Simone gets immunity?
> Captured Russian spy agrees to testify for immunity and Keene is back in office based solely on her testimony? I mean, why should she lie?


On screen she didn't admit to any part in the killing of the General in prison. If she did at another time though, that's a whole other story in her deal.

If you're a Russian spy you get traded for American spies. If you actively participated in a murder, I'm not sure you get immunity. Maybe less time in prison.

-smak-


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smak said:


> On screen she didn't admit to any part in the killing of the General in prison. If she did at another time though, that's a whole other story in her deal.
> 
> If you're a Russian spy you get traded for American spies. If you actively participated in a murder, I'm not sure you get immunity. Maybe less time in prison.
> 
> -smak-


Carrie convinced her that the Russians were going to kill her. So she probably just went where the odds of her survival were better.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Yes. That is why her testimony, the only proof, is not enough.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Yes. That is why her testimony, the only proof, is not enough.


Well, we don't know that it's the only proof. We don't know what she could have led them to. That's the way these investigations work...they get one crack, and then they use it to pry the whole thing open.

Of course the timeline is absurd, but it tends to be on shows like this.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

IIRC, when Simone was 'rescued' from the safe house, they (Saul or Carrie) said that all they had as proof (to save Keene's Presidency) was Dante's testimony, then he was killed.

And I really didn't see why the Russians needed to interfere to get Keene removed -- she was doing it herself.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> IIRC, when Simone was 'rescued' from the safe house, they (Saul or Carrie) said that all they had as proof (to save Keene's Presidency) was Dante's testimony, then he was killed.


But that was because they didn't have Simone. Now they have Simone, plus whatever Simone has.


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

The ending made me think of the movie “The Pledge” with Nicholson. He plays a cop trying track down the murder of a young girl. He succeeds but goes nuts in the end.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But that was because they didn't have Simone. Now they have Simone, plus whatever Simone has.


Simone can't have anything but her testimony (which is what we were shown). Ridiculous that the word of a captured Russian spy was enough to 'save the presidency' - Even Keene knew that only half the country would believe it and resigned.

And regardless of Russian Interference, Keene's firing of her Cabinet to prevent them from invoking the 25th amendment was enough to get her impeached.

We never did find out how Carrie financed her team (or were we to believe they worked for free, or she used her credit cards to pay them), and the most glaring plot hole: How did Max get on the FBI team that 'swept' the Chief of Staff's residence for bugs so that he could install illegal cameras (or were they all Carrie's team?). And the Chief of Staff issuing orders to send a missile attack by lying to a General in opposition to the Presidents orders, and he isn't put in jail?

IMO, there was a lot of sloppy writing this season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Simone can't have anything but her testimony (which is what we were shown).


How do you know that? How do you know that she doesn't know anything at all about the organization that she is a part of and its activities?

Yes, the time-frame is ridiculous...it would take weeks, months, maybe years to verify and use the vast store of information she could supply. And she certainly wouldn't be revealing that information in public testimony. But that's the nature of a television show, where things tend to happen in a much faster and more streamlined manner than they would in reality. The thought that an officer in the GRU wouldn't have a treasure-trove of useful and actionable information is...pretty ridiculous.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Sloppy writing (show writers)
See the other points in my post.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Sloppy writing (show writers)
> See the other points in my post.


Oh, I agree with your other points. It's just the one that I quoted that seemed way off-base to me, for the reasons that I expressed.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Some interesting thoughts on the next (final?) season from the showrunner (apparently not much has been decided yet)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Season 8 premier date has been pushed back from June to Fall 2019. The link contains location spoilers.


Spoiler



Homeland Final Season Pushed to Fall


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

The final season of Homeland premieres on Sunday, February 9 at 9/8c.


----------

