# HR20 Issues and Differences from Tivo



## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

So, do you want to know what problems there are with the HR20 or what you might miss on the HR20 from the Tivo? Well, here it is and others can feel free to add to it.

Now this thread may get locked for breaking the rules and that's fine. But it's pretty obvious there is a lot of mud slinging around here and perhaps this thread well help stop that. Besides, none of this is a secret. A quick look at DBSTalk will show you.

As I've stated before when challenged, every receiver, every service, everything in life has Pros and Cons. One just needs to make an informed decision and move on. As for the HR20, some people feel they are between a rock and a hard place. The fact is that if you want to get the new HD coming and eventually all HD from the sats you will need to get an HR20 like it or not. If any of the below issues are dealbreakers then it's time to look at other options. 
If you have a good cable company then the Series 3 Tivo may be a great choice. If you have Comcast the Comcast Tivo might be coming out soon. Dish also has a good selection of DVRs, the ViP series is their best yet. But it's not Tivo. And of course there is always a Series 2 Tivo connected to pretty much anything. All good choices.

As always, the best place to discuss this is DBSTalk, a sister site of this forum which is owned by the same people along with AVS. 
And here are a few starter threads for you.

HR20 Forum: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112
HR20 Tips and Tricks: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648
Tivo to HR20 Survival Guide: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=69404
Wish List: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=80600 (Note that DirecTV has responded to this list and granted many of them in recent months.)

*Current Issues*

*Channels I Receive (CIR)*
This does not currently work as it shows all channels. This effects you if you want to do a search or autorecord search. Depending on what you are searching for it may pull up programs on channels you do not get. Once older receivers are updated to handle the changes in the data stream this will then function correctly.

*"Short" recordings*
Some users have noticed short recordings. Typically it's just a few seconds. In my own testing the HR20 seems to start a recording 5-7 seconds later then a Tivo. There are a couple large threads at DBSTalk working thru the problem and a lot of good things have come out of them for DirecTV to look at. This of course is not the problem where the networks just didn't start on time or ran long. As we all know this effects all DVRs. A DVR is only as good as the guide data.

*Show doesn't record (Error 13)*
Seems to happen sometimes when the guide data has no episode title. Doesn't always happen though. Mostly seen by those that record a lot of kids programming off Disney. Other then that there isn't a widespread problem of shows not recording. Again, good thread on DBSTalk that worked the problem. Unlike what some people say here, you don't get flamed for posting problems about the HR20. On the contrary, the problem is worked out and information presented to DirecTV in hopes they can fix it.

*The odd crash or lockup*
Amazingly enough people with the HR20 may get a lockup or crash just like any other receiver out there. It's pretty rare nowadays but it does indeed happen. Shocker. 

*Things you might miss from Tivo*

*Dual Live Buffers (DLBs)*
The big one. There are 2 tuners (4 actually...2 sat and 2 OTA) on the HR20 and it functions just like the HR10 in that you can record 2 things at once and watch a 3rd recorded program. But what you can't easily do is switch between 2 live programs and preserve a buffer for both as there is only 1 live buffer. It's not a bug but a design descision. There is a VERY large thread on DBSTalk about DLBs and it's probably the top requested feature.

*Advanced Wishlists*
For those that did basic searching (title, keyword, etc) on the Tivo will find it very similar on the HR20 and you can autorecord as well. What's not here are advanced wishlist functionality (like a keyword with 5 more filters applied). So if you depend on advanced wishlists be aware. It has been mentioned that more advanced searching is on the list of enhancements.

*"Tivo style" guide*
It's not here. There is a reason why it's called the "Tivo style" guide, it's only on a Tivo.  On the HR20 you can highlight the channel number in the guide and press the Info button to get a listing of all programs on that channel for the next 2 weeks, but it's not the same.

*Suggestions/Thumbs*
It's just a Tivo thing.

*Search on custom list*
Currently you cannot search or setup autorecords on a custom list. It's an oft requested feature request that I myself have championed that even after CIR is working we still need to be able to eliminate channels we don't want from searches

*Autocorrection*
This was just added in the current national release that started rolling out this weekend. Yes it's a Tivo patent but somehow DirecTV added it. Seems to work pretty much the same.

*OTA Scanning*
While OTA works fine on the HR20 there is no blind scanning feature so it relies on Tribune guide data for the OTA stations. Remember that OTA reception is an art, not a science and that all OTA tuners are different. So just like the HR10's OTA tuners can be better or worse then the one you had before, same for the HR20. It can be better or worse for you depending on your situation.

*Series Link (season pass) limits*
Currently, for whatever reason, there is a limit of 50 total series links. Don't ask why, nobody knows. There has been talked about this limit being lifted or upped. No other information about it.

*"Peanut" Remote*
Obviously this is a Tivo only thing. If the peanut remote is your #1 must have then you'll be disappointed.

------------------------------------------------

Ok, so there is it. I won't speak to any advantage the HR20 may have as that will just incite the flamers.

Hopefully this thread will help to stop the FUD and foster better discussions in the future.


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## litzdog911 (Oct 18, 2002)

Here's a summary that I pulled together a few weeks ago .... still pretty much valid:

*Summary of HR20 vs. HR10-250*

*HR20 Advantages:*
* MPEG4 (Ka-band) HiDef channels: Receive all of the newest HiDef channels from the 99 & 103-deg satellites with a 5-LNB dish
* 90-min buffer
* Faster Program Guide interface
* Faster reprioritization of Series Link settings
* Remaining disk space guage
* Single button record scheduling
* Network connectivity: Share music and photo files with your Media Center PC
* Easy storage capacity upgrade: Just add large capacity external SATA drive, replacing internal drive
* Caller ID displayed on screen
* Native RF Remote control support using DirecTV's RF Remote
* Same channel overlap: Pad recording times on the same channel without requiring the second tuner
* Video stays "live" when using menus
* Video on Demand (VOD): Coming soon
* "Active channel" content and interactive features
* Slightly better over-the-air (ATSC) tuner hardware (but not by much)
* Simultaneous video outputs over HDMI, component, SVideo and composite video
* Single Wire Multiswith (SWM) support

*HR10-250 Advantages:*
* Tivo user interface (Wishlists, Tivo Suggestions)
* Live dual tuner 30-min buffers
* Instant 30-sec skip: Enabled using Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select "backdoor" code
* Smoother FF/REW modes
* Easier "skip to next/previous tick" with dedicated remote buttons
* "Channels I Receive" feature works properly
* More than 50 Season Passes/Series Links
* Slightly more reliable and robust software


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Nice job guys.

The one issue I'd like to mention is the responsiveness of the box to the control. I believe that sometimes it looks like commands are not being received. I think this is an annoyance that may bother some Tivo users a lot.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

To keep in line with the current sentiment here at TCF that only bad news about the HR20 is welcome, I'll add the following that long-time TiVo users may not care for on the HR20:


Every screen in the HR20 has PIP, showing in the upper right of the screen either LIVE TV or the program currently being played back. If you are recording two series and don't want to see what's happening by going to your playlist before turning on your TV, it's hard to avoid.

The HR20 has a 30-second-SLIP function, unlike the unsupported 30-second SKIP function on the TiVo. SKIP is instantaneous on TiVo, while SLIP on the HR20 takes approximately 2.5 seconds and content is visible while the software goes into a FFW burst.

Skip-to-tick is implemented differently, requiring PRESS-AND-HOLD of a key to activate it.

As Scott mentioned, you can find more information about the HR20 at DBSTalk.com


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> Nice job guys.
> 
> The one issue I'd like to mention is the responsiveness of the box to the control. I believe that sometimes it looks like commands are not being received. I think this is an annoyance that may bother some Tivo users a lot.


If what you are referring to is entering in a channel number and it not going right away unless you hit the enter key, that bug was with the setting for the quick info banner. It has been fixed.

Also "keybounce" issues have also been mostly fixed in the recent CE cycle going national as we speak.

If you're talking about something else then you'll have to explain it.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

I would suggest looking at items like this: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92513

What you'll find is that there is still a huge discussion on if the problems have been fixed for most people.

Of course the other huge item that was not mentioned is the User Interface. Many Tivo users feel that it is not intuitive and that will be a major factor for a lot of people. Again, search the other forums and find out for yourself.

*"If you're talking about something else then you'll have to explain it."*

I was referring to the Press and Hold that Drew mentioned and to a problem with the remote being if RF mode (I think) where the user would have to press the key several times only to discover that they were being stored up in the buffer and being acted on at one time.


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## dfioc (Sep 24, 2004)

RS4 said:


> Nice job guys.
> 
> The one issue I'd like to mention is the responsiveness of the box to the control. I believe that sometimes it looks like commands are not being received. I think this is an annoyance that may bother some Tivo users a lot.


I find it interesting how you can comment on something you've never tried (HR20). By your own admission, you're soley relying upon what others say in various forums and not upon your own first-hand experience. Kind of hurts your credibility in my mind.

Here's your quote:


RS4 said:


> I just got out of the HR10-250 commitment and have serious doubts about the HR20, so the answer to your question is 0 time, nada, nothing. I've formed my opinions on what I've read because DirecTV will not let me try it at home and send it back if I don't like it, but not be held to the 2-year commitment.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> *Autocorrection*
> This was just added in the current national release that started rolling out this weekend. Yes it's a Tivo patent but somehow DirecTV added it. Seems to work pretty much the same.


NOOOOOOOO. I was SO looking forward to getting away from this stupid "feature" with the HR20.  Seriously, it's probably the single largest thing I dislike about Tivo, well that and the remote. I hope Tivo sues Directv over this and makes them take it back off. :up:

Bonscott, as far as Wishlists go on the HR20, how do they work? What I mean is let's say I see a show that looks interesting to me but it's not scheduled to come on until fall. Obviously this new show won't be in the guide data for many months. On Tivo I simply enter a auto-record title Wishlist and it picks it up in the fall when it gets into the guide data. Am I able to do this with the HR20?

BTW, my HR20 gets installed on Monday. Wish me luck guys!


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

drew2k said:


> Every screen in the HR20 has PIP, showing in the upper right of the screen either LIVE TV or the program currently being played back. If you are recording two series and don't want to see what's happening by going to your playlist before turning on your TV, it's hard to avoid.




Yeh, I think this is really going to annoy me, especially when watching sports!


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

kbohip said:


> NOOOOOOOO. I was SO looking forward to getting away from this stupid "feature" with the HR20.  Seriously, it's probably the single largest thing I dislike about Tivo, well that and the remote. I hope Tivo sues Directv over this and makes them take it back off. :up:


I'm glad they're implementing it, but I do hope that they back off on the amount of the correction that's in the DirecTV TiVo boxes. It's better on the stand alone TiVos. BTW, other DVRs have the correction also, such as the Motorola boxes that Cox Cable rents around here.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> So, do you want to know what problems there are with the HR20 or what you might miss on the HR20 from the Tivo? Well, here it is and others can feel free to add to it.


I can't stand the the HR20 pom-pom waving, evangelizing and 'vs HR10' pissing matches. That said....

_this_ is the type information/discussion we need around here IMO. Great post ....thanks for (taking the time, and) doing this! :up:


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

kbohip said:


> NOOOOOOOO. I was SO looking forward to getting away from this stupid "feature" with the HR20.  Seriously, it's probably the single largest thing I dislike about Tivo, well that and the remote. I hope Tivo sues Directv over this and makes them take it back off. :up:


Never fear. The HR20 FFW Correction feature can be enabled and disabled through the interface at will. For other enhancements and tipis and tricks, you know where to visit.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

kbohip said:


> NOOOOOOOO. I was SO looking forward to getting away from this stupid "feature" with the HR20.  Seriously, it's probably the single largest thing I dislike about Tivo, well that and the remote. I hope Tivo sues Directv over this and makes them take it back off. :up:


Well, as Drew said you can turn it on or off in the setup menus. One thing DirecTV has gone thru is to add a lot of things that you can turn on and off based on user feedback. And they spent the last CE cycle tweaking the timings of the Autocorrection. So they would release a CE on the weekend, we'd post feedback and they would tweak the autocorrection values in a CE the following weekend. DirecTV is working really closely with DBSTalk and it's users to make the HR20 as good as it can be. That more then anything must be what RS4 misses when he thinks DirecTV doesn't care about it's users. But I digress, don't want this thread to become a flame fest.



> Bonscott, as far as Wishlists go on the HR20, how do they work? What I mean is let's say I see a show that looks interesting to me but it's not scheduled to come on until fall. Obviously this new show won't be in the guide data for many months. On Tivo I simply enter a auto-record title Wishlist and it picks it up in the fall when it gets into the guide data. Am I able to do this with the HR20?


As far as I know you can setup a keyword search on autorecord and it will pick up the new show. But you need to be careful since you'll hit the 50 limit quick if you do this a lot. Yes, nobody likes the 50 limit.



> BTW, my HR20 gets installed on Monday. Wish me luck guys!


Once you get it please stop by DBSTalk with your comments and especially suggestions to make it better.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Todd said:


> Yeh, I think this is really going to annoy me, especially when watching sports!


Yea it can. The funny thing is that it's has historically been one of the top requested features for the Tivo's. So DirecTV delivered it. But you can't please everyone with it. We have pushed for a way to disabled it. Personally if I think I might be spoiled I'll mute the sound and hold my hand up to block the picture while choosing the program in question. It might look funny but it works! I really like it the rest of the time so I personally prefer to have it on then to not have it at all. It's those pros and cons I've talked about.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> *"If you're talking about something else then you'll have to explain it."*
> 
> I was referring to the Press and Hold that Drew mentioned and to a problem with the remote being if RF mode (I think) where the user would have to press the key several times only to discover that they were being stored up in the buffer and being acted on at one time.


I can't speak to personal experience since RF doesn't work well for me (too much other interference) but from what I know RF remotes in general can be hit or miss for people depending on the environment they are in. I don't think the HR20 RF remote is any different in that respect. Remote Central has a wealth of remote related information.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Never fear. The HR20 FFW Correction feature can be enabled and disabled through the interface at will. For other enhancements and tipis and tricks, you know where to visit.


Yes! :up: BTW, the reason I don't like this feature so much? My first DVR's were from Dish and didn't have this. For years I got used to fast forwarding and being able to hit the play button within a second or two of the program starting. I'm definitely glad to hear Directv gives you the option to turn this off.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Well, as Drew said you can turn it on or off in the setup menus. One thing DirecTV has gone thru is to add a lot of things that you can turn on and off based on user feedback. And they spent the last CE cycle tweaking the timings of the Autocorrection. So they would release a CE on the weekend, we'd post feedback and they would tweak the autocorrection values in a CE the following weekend. DirecTV is working really closely with DBSTalk and it's users to make the HR20 as good as it can be. That more then anything must be what RS4 misses when he thinks DirecTV doesn't care about it's users. But I digress, don't want this thread to become a flame fest.
> 
> As far as I know you can setup a keyword search on autorecord and it will pick up the new show. But you need to be careful since you'll hit the 50 limit quick if you do this a lot. Yes, nobody likes the 50 limit.
> 
> Once you get it please stop by DBSTalk with your comments and especially suggestions to make it better.


Thanks for the info Scott. I'll definitely be stopping by that "other" forum once I get the HR20 up and running for a few weeks. I want to really get used to it before I make any comments about it. As far as the 50 SP limit, I agree that it's a dumb idea at best, but I'm safe for now.

I'll say this right now though. One of the main reasons I decided to stay with Directv is they really do seem to care about their current customers. The very fact that their implementing some of the ideas you guys have come up with for the HR20 have come up with is refreshing to me.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

kbohip said:


> The very fact that their implementing some of the ideas you guys have come up with for the HR20 have come up with is refreshing to me.


I think the perfect example of this is the one button guide. I guess on pretty much every DirecTV receiver out there with the new UI (D11, D12, H20, R15, etc.) all require you press the guide button twice to actually get to the guide (first press brings up a filter list). Dumb IMO.

HR20 ended up with the same thing.

After much pressure they made it an option on the HR20 for one press of the guide button to get to the guide and I believe it's default (if not it's easy to turn on in the menu). And now they are going to update *all* their receiver models to include this option.

There was one release back a few months ago where 4 or 5 of the top 10 requested items on the wishlist were added. Most were minor to be sure but they were added.

I'll make a prediction that after VOD you'll see some improvements in the search features as one of the next items on the list. (I have no inside info, just my prediction).

So yes, the users have made a difference and DirecTV listens. Doesn't mean we get everything we want but at least they have their ears open.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

ouch, i think this is a ploy to get us to buy more machines...I have 144SP on my 60hr machine and 58 on my 30 hour machine. by my math that means i'd need at least 4 hr20's and maybe one more for expansion. I bet the hr20 is so fast because of that 50 limit


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

On the 50 limit, I have to admit I watch a lot of TV (probably too much) and yet I only have about 35 SPs. And I need to purge some of them because some shows have been canceled. I just have to wonder when people find the time to watch all that TV, post all day on the Internet and read Harry Potter books.  . Doesn't anyone actually get outside anymore?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

newsposter said:


> ouch, i think this is a ploy to get us to buy more machines...I have 144SP on my 60hr machine and 58 on my 30 hour machine. by my math that means i'd need at least 4 hr20's and maybe one more for expansion. I bet the hr20 is so fast because of that 50 limit


 No ... the *real* ploy to get you to buy more machines is the rumored "All Access Package", rumored to go live in August for $119/month. It includes all channels in the Premium Package and waives the following *three* fees: DVR service fee, HD access fee, and *mirror fee*. In other words, add as many receivers as you want to your account! See DBSTalk.com for more info, including discussion on potential limitations or requirements DIRECTV may place on your account: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90798

(This may be news to some people here at TCF who never visit DBSTalk.com, so I hope this please start a new thread if you wish to discuss this here... Thanks.)

Regarding the limit of only 50 series links, we know that DIRECTV is aware many people dislike this limit, and that they are looking at it. Like many other HR20 owners, I hope that the limit will be raised significantly or even eliminated someday soon.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

newsposter said:


> ouch, i think this is a ploy to get us to buy more machines...I have 144SP on my 60hr machine and 58 on my 30 hour machine. by my math that means i'd need at least 4 hr20's and maybe one more for expansion. I bet the hr20 is so fast because of that 50 limit


LOL. You never know. 

I've got about 35 season passes myself and I think I watch way too much TV as it is. 

But seriously, DirecTV knows there isn't anyone that likes the limit and we hammer them on it every couple months. In a recent chat session they did say it's something they are actively looking at by upping the limit or eliminating it. The only reason I can see for the limit originally is perhaps there were stability issues if it went much past 50.

I'm thinking once VOD is rolled out and stable things like this will get addressed. One hopes anyway.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

I'm curious about what the VOD is going to give you. It's my understanding they are holding back 60 gig for that. But after all, isn't the major purpose of a dvr VOD? Wouldn't you rather have that space to record your own shows?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> I'm curious about what the VOD is going to give you. It's my understanding they are holding back 60 gig for that. But after all, isn't the major purpose of a dvr VOD? Wouldn't you rather have that space to record your own shows?


There is "reserved" space on the hard drive of the HR20. Just like there is the same reserved space on the Tivo units. 

And FYI that VOD will come mostly via the Internet and your broadband connection to the ethernet port on the HR20.

VOD usefulness is really up to each person. For me I might find it useful if I miss a show. For example the electric goes out and I miss Heroes. I could then go to the NBC VOD channel and choose to download/stream Heroes this week. Or I missed a new show that sounds good and it's not 6 episodes in, I could go back and watch them all. For myself I honestly don't know what use I'll have for VOD, I'll have to wait and see once it comes out.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Mark Lopez said:


> Doesn't anyone actually get outside anymore?


sometimes disabilities don't permit much more than a life of tv. Plus my wife is more of a general contractor than i'll ever be with all she watches on home shows. 

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Also, I do not cancel passes that I know will be back (though FX has a habit of making you reenter anyway). And Until it's on futon as canceled, and even then , i wait. Standoff and kidnapped are good examples of this.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

newsposter said:


> Plus my wife is more of a general contractor than i'll ever be with all she watches on home shows.


Tell me about it. I am so sick of watching "The walls are too bland, you need to add color" and on the next episode "The walls have too much color, you need to make them more neutral". Arggh....


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## The Bad Guy (May 28, 2003)

Does anyone have specs how much space the HR20-100 has?

I think it said 300GB HD, but I wasn't sure.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

The Bad Guy said:


> Does anyone have specs how much space the HR20-100 has?
> 
> I think it said 300GB HD, but I wasn't sure.


It is actually a 320gb


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## The Bad Guy (May 28, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> It is actually a 320gb


So what does that equate to in terms of recording time for SA, Mpeg2 and 4?


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## Rob Dawn (Aug 16, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> *Suggestions/Thumbs*
> It's just a Tivo thing.


So are you saying that the HR20 will only have the shows that we actually tell it to record?!
No 'Suggestions' at all?!

If so, that's going to kill my wife as she watches all kinds of things from the Suggestions folder during the summer because she is off work for 2 months being that she is a teacher.

Oh well...
Rob


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Mark Lopez said:


> Tell me about it. I am so sick of watching "The walls are too bland, you need to add color" and on the next episode "The walls have too much color, you need to make them more neutral". Arggh....


when we go into finer hotels she really loves to tear them apart if they aren't perfect. Obviously your typical medium priced chain and family/friends' places will be less kept but still, she can tell you even if at the date of the renovation if it was done right.

she never does it in front of everyone but it's pretty cool how much she knows. Of course our place needs a lot but gotta hit the lottery first


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Rob Dawn said:


> No 'Suggestions' at all?!


how will i keep track of my free space


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

newsposter said:


> how will i keep track of my free space


With the disk used indicator at the bottom of the Playlist (Now Showing).

No Suggestions on the HR20.

The disk inside varies some by model. I think they are currently using 350GB. However, you can connect an external disk by eSATA and potentially get to multi-terabytes with a "JBOD" RAID setup. I have a 750GB Seagate FreeAgentPro on mine. Note that MPEG4 channels take less disk space than MPEG2.


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## taker (Sep 20, 2006)

OK, I hope that I don't get in trouble for this but I had the hr20 for about 2 days and my family just about killed me . There are no advantages to Directv POS ... The reason I say this is that my HR10-250 is very responsive , my kids(4,6) can operate it.. Directv interactivity is for what playing 8bit games like poker ...the VOD is nothing more that a download to the receiver the night before thats no advantage.. My biggest gripe is that I went to the CEDIA Expo 2005 in Indianalopis and went up the the DIrectv people and talked to them about there new box and they informed me as well lots of other people that it had All the bells and whistles of the tivo HR10-250, well that was a lie .. where is the dual live buffers .. where is the wishlist , 30 second skip .. what are the colored buttons for they don't do any thing on over half of the channels .. when the HR10-250 stops working because they shutoff the the mpeg 2 stream then I move to Comcast with a series 3


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

taker said:


> OK, I hope that I don't get in trouble for this but I had the hr20 for about 2 days and my family just about killed me . There are no advantages to Directv POS ... The reason I say this is that my HR10-250 is very responsive , my kids(4,6) can operate it.. Directv interactivity is for what playing 8bit games like poker ...the VOD is nothing more that a download to the receiver the night before thats no advantage.. My biggest gripe is that I went to the CEDIA Expo 2005 in Indianalopis and went up the the DIrectv people and talked to them about there new box and they informed me as well lots of other people that it had All the bells and whistles of the tivo HR10-250, well that was a lie .. where is the dual live buffers .. where is the wishlist , 30 second skip .. what are the colored buttons for they don't do any thing on over half of the channels .. when the HR10-250 stops working because they shutoff the the mpeg 2 stream then I move to Comcast with a series 3


Like YOU said, the Tivo UI is for kids  .


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Wishlist exsts, more or less - it's not exactly like TiVo. 30-sec skip exists. The colored buttons do something when they're supposed to.

Two days is too soon to pass judgment - it's just different. I've had mine for two days and am still feeling my way around.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

taker said:


> when the HR10-250 stops working because they shutoff the the mpeg 2 stream then I move to Comcast with a series 3


When my HR10-250 stopped working because the motherboard failed, I moved to Time Warner and a Series3. I'm really really happy.


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## taker (Sep 20, 2006)

stevel said:


> Wishlist exsts, more or less - it's not exactly like TiVo. 30-sec skip exists. The colored buttons do something when they're supposed to.
> 
> Two days is too soon to pass judgment - it's just different. I've had mine for two days and am still feeling my way around.


Sometimes you buy a product and plug it in and test it out and realize that it not what it was advertised to be and you only have one recourse of action that is to take it back.. I have peace at my house and I sleep well knowing that tivo won't miss any recording.... there is no "more or less" with the wishlist either it dose or it doesn't


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## The Bad Guy (May 28, 2003)

stevel said:


> With the disk used indicator at the bottom of the Playlist (Now Showing).
> 
> No Suggestions on the HR20.
> 
> The disk inside varies some by model. I think they are currently using 350GB. However, you can connect an external disk by eSATA and potentially get to multi-terabytes with a "JBOD" RAID setup. I have a 750GB Seagate FreeAgentPro on mine. Note that MPEG4 channels take less disk space than MPEG2.


Do you have to do anything special to the external drive like image it or can you just hook it up straight out of the box?

I assume that'swhat a JBOD RAID setup is, but I'm new to this HR20 game.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

The Bad Guy said:


> Do you have to do anything special to the external drive like image it or can you just hook it up straight out of the box?
> 
> I assume that'swhat a JBOD RAID setup is, but I'm new to this HR20 game.


You just plug it in. Note than the eSATA drive is used in lieu of the internal drive, it isn't "expanding" the drive space.


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## The Bad Guy (May 28, 2003)

drew2k said:


> You just plug it in. Note than the eSATA drive is used in lieu of the internal drive, it isn't "expanding" the drive space.


That is great to know. So when I fill up the original HD, I can just plug that one in.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

drew2k said:


> You just plug it in. Note than the eSATA drive is used in lieu of the internal drive, it isn't "expanding" the drive space.


I think that is wonderful...if a drive goes down, the other is there to use right? huge plus if you ask me


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

With the external drive connected, it is as if the internal drive is not there - it does not get used at all. If the external drive is disconnected, it will use the internal drive but it will be in exactly the state you left it when you connected the external drive and you will have no access to the shows on the external drive.

Conversely, if you "fill up" the internal HD and plug in an external, you lose access to the shows on the internal drive.

My reference to "JBOD RAID" is to boxes that let you connect multiple drives that looks to the DVR like one drive that has the capacity of the sum of all the connected drives. For example, four 750GB disks gives you 3TB. This does increase the probability of failure, though. If you're going that route, you might be better off with a RAID box that uses some of the extra drives for redundancy and lets you hot-swap a failed drive.

Series 3 TiVos have a similar capability, but the way they've done it is that the external drive is treated like a second internal drive and is "married" to the internal, adding to the capacity.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

gio1269 said:


> Like YOU said, the Tivo UI is for kids  .


Oh, but you've said you just _love_ your HR10 too...don't you? Thanks for the helpful comment. 

Taker, my family also prefers the TiVo UI. And although none of are crazy about the HR20, over time you will get used to it. Hopefully they continue to make improvements on it and one day soon it will be near bullet-proof.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

the unmarried thing does sound great. Total independence. Now i'd only lose 1/2 my shows when it crashes! The only thing that would suck is them not being grouped and having to swap a few around to get what i wanted, but having unlimited storage is something they did right!

i assume this is hot swappable?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Hot swappable? No - you'd have to power down and then reconnect. As far as I know, you can have multiple external drives and swap them in, as long as they're all for the same box. Interesting idea - I hadn't thought about that. It's a way to keep an "archive" of shows you may want to watch someday without keeping them on the active disk.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Yep, plug it in and reboot.
Want to go back to internal, unplug and reboot.

I think there were a couple people that would plug in a "football" eSata drive during football games on Sunday to record their team's games and keep them. Then put a different eSata for "normal" recording. Obviously this only works if you don't schedule any other recordings during the football games. 

Archiving has limited uses in this way but would be easier if you have two HR20's. Dedicate one HR20 to movies and another to everything else. Then you can "archive" multiple HD movies for later viewing on multiple eSata drives. Assuming you have the money to keep buying drives.

Of course you're hoping these drives don't crash.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

stevel said:


> Hot swappable? No - you'd have to power down and then reconnect. As far as I know, you can have multiple external drives and swap them in, as long as they're all for the same box. Interesting idea - I hadn't thought about that. It's a way to keep an "archive" of shows you may want to watch someday without keeping them on the active disk.


Well rebooting sucks but no issues for me since I'd have the archival dream of multiple drives. All Alf shows on one drive lol.

Plus currently i put things on my panny hard drive and mean to edit and burn to DVD but never have the time. If i just spend 50 bucks on smaller hard drives, it would almost be worth it. I had the dvd crash and lost over 2 years worth of assorted stuff because i never 'got to it'

id imagine in a proper enclosure/environment the removed hard drive would last a lot longer than any drive currently in the machine.


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