# Convert HDMI to DVI?



## IMD (Jul 5, 2003)

I'm planning on upgrading from a Series 2 to a Tivo HD XL, and have a question about getting the best resolution on my older HD television. I understand that the best resolution is to use the HDMI output from the Tivo HD. However, my television (2003 Sony FD Trinitron Wega XBR) doesn't have HDMI input. Instead, I can choose between DVI-HDTV (which is HDCP compliant, using EIA-861 standard) or HD/DVD component input (1080i/720p), currently used by my DVD player. 

What is my best choice for outputting HD to my television; is there an HDMI-to-DVI adapter?
Thanks in advance,
Ian


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Yes. There are HDMI to DVI adapters, and HDMI to DVI cables. The only thing you'll lose is the audio; DVI doesn't carry audio, while HDMI does.

(Other than the audio, HDMI and DVI are the same thing in different packages.)

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231 - HDMI to DVI cables


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

You can buy an HDMI/DVI cable from places like Newegg. I use one for a Dell W2600 with a TiVo HD, and it works fine. There are also adapters available, but I didn't like the stress on the HDMI connection, as the TV is wall-mounted.


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## IMD (Jul 5, 2003)

Thanks for the quick response. One more "HD-unaware" question: Do I need to be concerned about splitters in the coax cable degrading the HD signal? Right now the coax comes in to the house and splits into 1) cable modem to computer 2) cable box with digital/HD service and TiVo + HD TV 3) Two other standard def televisions running directly off cable (no boxes).

Is there a better way to split the signal without degrading the signal?
Thanks again,
Ian


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## Flyinace2000 (Aug 2, 2005)

IMD said:


> Thanks for the quick response. One more "HD-unaware" question: Do I need to be concerned about splitters in the coax cable degrading the HD signal? Right now the coax comes in to the house and splits into 1) cable modem to computer 2) cable box with digital/HD service and TiVo + HD TV 3) Two other standard def televisions running directly off cable (no boxes).
> 
> Is there a better way to split the signal without degrading the signal?
> Thanks again,
> Ian


That is really going to depend on a bunch of things like, signal strength, wire integrity and interference. I would try it as is then see if you need to make adjustments.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

IMD said:


> Thanks for the quick response. One more "HD-unaware" question: Do I need to be concerned about splitters in the coax cable degrading the HD signal? Right now the coax comes in to the house and splits into 1) cable modem to computer 2) cable box with digital/HD service and TiVo + HD TV 3) Two other standard def televisions running directly off cable (no boxes).


Yes, you do need to be concerned. If the signal degrades too much - and it could be on a channel by channel basis - you'll see pixelation, which is the picture breaking up in square blocks.



> Is there a better way to split the signal without degrading the signal?


There are lots of rules as to how the signal should be split, and the cable company will actually help you with that - they did for me when I experienced pixelation. They'll even sell you a signal amplifier if you need one or you can buy your own. Don't worry about it unless you experience pixelation or lousy reception on your analog televisions.

Always use high quality splitters, and again, some cable companies will give you these for free - Comcast did for me. Don't use cheap splitters. Don't use cheap splitters. Don't use cheap splitters.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

IMD said:


> Thanks for the quick response. One more "HD-unaware" question: Do I need to be concerned about splitters in the coax cable degrading the HD signal? Right now the coax comes in to the house and splits into 1) cable modem to computer 2) cable box with digital/HD service and TiVo + HD TV 3) Two other standard def televisions running directly off cable (no boxes).
> 
> Is there a better way to split the signal without degrading the signal?
> Thanks again,
> Ian


The Tivo HD have little bit more sensitive tuners, and sometimes the signal coming from the cable may be too strong and would disrupt the Tivo. When you happens you can get attenuators, even a splitter will help. Tivo will have a signal strength display to help determine whether the channel has too much or too little signal. Ideal strength are around 85-99%, although 100% will work but its possible to go over that 100% and disrupt Tivo causing a re-boot.


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## IMD (Jul 5, 2003)

Okay, the TiVo is out of the box and connected, but I cannot get video from the HDMI on the TiVo HD XL to my Sony HD TV (described at top of post) using an HDMI-to-DVI cable I got from Monoprice.com (item #2284). I can get video out the component video option, but not HDMI. 

I initially didn't get any sound out either, but after a restart that problem cleared up. Is there a trick to the HDMI-to-DVI conversion? Throwing salt over the shoulder, or sacrificing some small animal (or perhaps the old TiVo)?

I'm posting this while the TiVo restarts; it's taking a very long time (>10 minutes so far), is that normal for the XL?

Thanks,
Ian


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## rocko (Oct 29, 2002)

IMD said:


> I'm posting this while the TiVo restarts; it's taking a very long time (>10 minutes so far), is that normal for the XL?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ian


Soft reboots have been known to hang with the HD XL. If it's hanging on the "Welcome, powering up" screen pull the plug, wait 30 seconds and plug back in. It should boot fine after that.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

HDMI employs digital rights management. your tv being older likely does not fully comply with the latest HDMI requirements. Thank hollywood and thier DRM crap. Forget the HDMI to DVI cable and hook up the component video cable. Done, perfect HD picture, no DRM crap in the way.


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## IMD (Jul 5, 2003)

jcthorne said:


> HDMI employs digital rights management. your tv being older likely does not fully comply with the latest HDMI requirements. Thank hollywood and thier DRM crap. Forget the HDMI to DVI cable and hook up the component video cable. Done, perfect HD picture, no DRM crap in the way.


That's what I did, and the TiVo works fine. What's the advantage of HDMI over component video?

Ian


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

IMD said:


> That's what I did, and the TiVo works fine. What's the advantage of HDMI over component video?
> 
> Ian


Better picture quality. It was noticeable on my 65 inch. Not major, but still noticeable. It shouldn't be as obvious on smaller screens.

FYI - It is an older set and have been using HDMI to DVI with no problems. I have never had any DRM issues.

I wonder if the component video puts out in a different format from the HDMI. Make sure you Video Output Format is set to something that is compatible to your HDTV. My guess is 1080i should work. (Messages Settings -> Settings -> Video) It can't hurt to try it.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

I use a hdmi to dvi cable on my old crt rptv and it works fine. But it wont have sound. I use a hdmi switcher so i can have my blu-ray and hd-dvd players on one dvi port.



IMD said:


> I'm planning on upgrading from a Series 2 to a Tivo HD XL, and have a question about getting the best resolution on my older HD television. I understand that the best resolution is to use the HDMI output from the Tivo HD. However, my television (2003 Sony FD Trinitron Wega XBR) doesn't have HDMI input. Instead, I can choose between DVI-HDTV (which is HDCP compliant, using EIA-861 standard) or HD/DVD component input (1080i/720p), currently used by my DVD player.
> 
> What is my best choice for outputting HD to my television; is there an HDMI-to-DVI adapter?
> Thanks in advance,
> Ian


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

waynomo said:


> Better picture quality. It was noticeable on my 65 inch. Not major, but still noticeable. It shouldn't be as obvious on smaller screens.
> 
> FYI - It is an older set and have been using HDMI to DVI with no problems. I have never had any DRM issues.
> 
> I wonder if the component video puts out in a different format from the HDMI. Make sure you Video Output Format is set to something that is compatible to your HDTV. My guess is 1080i should work. (Messages Settings -> Settings -> Video) It can't hurt to try it.


There is technically no reason the HDMI would necessarily have better picture quality. The D/A conversion may be different from the tivo vs the tv or the cables can vary in quality, but there is no reason why the opposite might not be just as valid, ie the component having better quality than the HDMI. In my case with an overhead projector and long cable runs, HDMI or DVI is much worse as data is lost and sparklies show up. The componet picture is perfect and yes I have VERY GOOD high quality cable. HDMI does not go 50ft without signal loss.


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## IMD (Jul 5, 2003)

Been using the component video for a week now, and all seems well. Will the TiVo up-convert SD programs to HD using the component cables, or is that limited to HDMI? I transferred some older SD recordings from our old Series2 TiVo, and they seem markedly better quality coming off the new HD XL. The XL video output is set to "1080i fixed".
Thanks,
Ian


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## drey (Jul 21, 2008)

On your TV you'll get virtually same quality on component vs HDMI ->> DVI. And actually component will be better since less adapters/converters = better quality. Stay with component the way you do and you'll be okay.

TiVo upconverts the signal to the resolution you specify as long as your TV supports it.


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## Flyinace2000 (Aug 2, 2005)

drey said:


> On your TV you'll get virtually same quality on component vs HDMI ->> DVI. And actually component will be better since less adapters/converters = better quality. Stay with component the way you do and you'll be okay.
> 
> TiVo upconverts the signal to the resolution you specify as long as your TV supports it.


Technically this is not true. You will get better picture from a HDMI -> DVI adapter since both cables send the same signal and no video conversion is happening. HDMI -> DVI simply change the plugs. Using component you are changing a digital signal to analog then once it gets to your TV it is changing it back from analog to digital. By using the HDMI/DVI you keep the signal digital the entire time in theory giving you better picture quality. Can you tell the difference, not many can, but thats the theory.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

You might check the cable spec for the DVI standard mandated by the TV. If it is DVI-A you are out of luck. I don't think that would suppport HDCP though so...

Also.. if the Tivo is set to a standard your TV does not support it will not work as the handshake will fail.

For instance, if the Tivo is set to 1080i and your set only accepts HDMI at 720P you will need to set the Tivo to output at 720P to get it to work.

I have similar vintage set from JVC with DVI/HDCP and it works great with the TIvo HD.

Here is a good page from Bluejeans cables that explains it a bit....

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-dvi-cables/index.htm


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Flyinace2000 said:


> Technically this is not true. You will get better picture from a HDMI -> DVI adapter since both cables send the same signal and no video conversion is happening. HDMI -> DVI simply change the plugs. Using component you are changing a digital signal to analog then once it gets to your TV it is changing it back from analog to digital. By using the HDMI/DVI you keep the signal digital the entire time in theory giving you better picture quality. Can you tell the difference, not many can, but thats the theory.


I am confused by your post. Component can provide the same quality picture as HDMI since component cables do not use any compression and can provide the full color depth in the signal. There can be differences in some tvs because of the way it handles the signal, but "most" tvs will provide you the same picture quality using component vs using HDMI/DVI.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

That's because component video is analog, while DVI is digital. Most HDTVs are digital (LCD and plasma). Thus it's a little bit silly to have the TiVo convert the digital video signal to analog (component), only to have your TV convert it back to digital again. Noise will always be introduced.

Now, how much the picture degrades is up to debate - with good equipment, it can be nearly impossible to tell. This is similar to the VGA-vs-DVI arguments people have when connecting their PC to their monitor. Some people can claim to see a difference, others can't.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Worf said:


> That's because component video is analog, while DVI is digital. Most HDTVs are digital (LCD and plasma). Thus it's a little bit silly to have the TiVo convert the digital video signal to analog (component), only to have your TV convert it back to digital again. Noise will always be introduced.


It isn't silly. I suggest you read up on using component cables vs HDMI.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Whether it's silly or not, what he posted was correct - there is some loss in conversion.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> Whether it's silly or not, what he posted was correct - there is some loss in conversion.


There's is no reason for degradation of signal through component even over quite long distances. Likewise, it is incorrect to say that digital to digital is perfect. As for HDMI, there is no error correction. Therefore, it is subject to lost data especially over longer distances. Btw, digital to digital doesn't mean the data doesn't have to be re-encoded. Digital to digital conversion is no more of a guarantee than analog to digital.


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## IMD (Jul 5, 2003)

rainwater said:


> There's is no reason for degradation of signal through component even over quite long distances. Likewise, it is incorrect to say that digital to digital is perfect. As for HDMI, there is no error correction. Therefore, it is subject to lost data especially over longer distances. Btw, digital to digital doesn't mean the data doesn't have to be re-encoded. Digital to digital conversion is no more of a guarantee than analog to digital.


What is the advantage of HDMI over component, since most equipment now has HDMI output? When would it be an advantage?
Thanks for the info,
Ian


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

IMD said:


> What is the advantage of HDMI over component, since most equipment now has HDMI output? When would it be an advantage?
> Thanks for the info,
> Ian


HDMI is digital which allows hollywood greater control to lock down their content.

One restriction is that Blu-ray players won't upconvert over component. This appears to be a DRM limitation rather than a technical one. So the only way to upconvert DVDs on a BD player is to use HDMI.

Other than that the advantage of HDMI is that it provides one cable for audio and video as well as supporting HD audio formats such as DTS-HD MA and Dolby Digital TruHD. HDMI also has a control line which allows components to talk to each other, turn off/on, select inputs etc.

None of these new audio formats of course have anything to do with your TiVo.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

rainwater said:


> There's is no reason for degradation of signal through component even over quite long distances. Likewise, it is incorrect to say that digital to digital is perfect. As for HDMI, there is no error correction. Therefore, it is subject to lost data especially over longer distances. Btw, digital to digital doesn't mean the data doesn't have to be re-encoded. Digital to digital conversion is no more of a guarantee than analog to digital.


I didn't say it was degraded over distance, I said there is some loss in conversion. Whether you choose to believe that or not is your choice, but a D/A to A/D conversion will have some, and as Worf said it may not be distinguishable to you.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> I didn't say it was degraded over distance, I said there is some loss in conversion. Whether you choose to believe that or not is your choice, but a D/A to A/D conversion will have some, and as Worf said it may not be distinguishable to you.


Just like there is loss in the conversion from digital to digital. I believe there is loss in both. You are choosing not too despite all the information out there.


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