# Secret to getting the CableCards to work revealed...



## besposito (Jan 30, 2005)

For the past two weeks I have been working with Time Warner Cable (Raleigh) and TiVo to get my cablecards to work in my Series 3. I have learned a ton about what causes the many issues people have seen and what it took to get it to finally work. I wanted to post this thread to outline what I found out.

MY SETUP:
I have two TiVo S3s each with two cablecards. The first one was installed and work fine immediately. The second had the typical problems seen by many. Because I had two S3s with one working and one not, I was able to narrow down the problem.

THE SYMPTONS:
The second S3 would receive the standard unencrypted channels = standard cable (channels 1-100) and my local HD channels. I was unable to receive any of the "digital tier" (channels 110-200) and premium channels (HBOHD, etc).

THE TRIALS:
First, I have to say Time Warner reserves much kudos for never giving up and continually working with me to resolve this issue. Although it took two weeks, they were a class act the whole way and deserve credit here. I had 8 different "truck rolls" to my house where a tech came to try to get it working, and they tried over a dozen different cablecards during this time. This spanned over two weeks with the local tech supervisor coming out the final time and putting me in touch with the best backline support guy TWC has. At various times I would have one of the two cards working and receiving some but not all of my channels.

NARROWING DOWN THE PROBLEMS:
Because I had one S3 working and one not, I was able to quickly determine what the problem was not. We are able to determine that the issue was not due to single strength, noise on the line, etc. We just swapped the working TiVo with the non-working one and found the working one worked on any cable outlet in my home...so wiring and signal were not the issue in my case. Also the fact that the standard channels and local HDs came in without any issues also indicated that the problem was with the cablecards and not the line.

BASIC PROBLEMS:
During the two weeks of troubleshooting I worked with both TWC's senior backline engineers and TiVo's senior backline engineers. There were two basic issues that were causing my problem... the cable company had mistakes when provisioning and the installation procedure was not followed exactly.

PROBLEM #1 - PROVISIONING:
The first thing we found was that when they entered my customer information in the provisioning information they made several mistakes. First, they mismatched my Host ID with my Cablecard...they had the host ID for cablecard one assigned to cablecard two and vice versa. This prevented them from being provisioned properly and thus never authorized to receive the correct channels. So the first step was verifying all of the info. Host ID, cablecard serial number, and TM number. Once this was correct I was able to recieve some, but not all of the premium channels on one of the two cable cards. The next step was to correct the actual provisioning record which determined the channels I had subscribed to. When this was correct I was able to get my first cablecard working with all of the correct channels. The only problem I still had was that my second cablecard still did not receive the digital tier (110-200) and premium channels (HBOHD, etc).

PROBLEM #2 - WHEN IN DOUBT FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS:
So here was the situation. We had cablecard #1 working and all of the provisioning records correct in the cable companies provisioning system. We verified this over and over again. But everytime they tried to provision my second cablecard it didnt work...i would not receive the digital tier or premium channels. The first assumption was that the second cablecard must be bad and so we replaced it several times over several days, each time re-provisioning it, and each time the end result being it didnt work.

The final solution came after spending several hours on the phone with both TiVo backend support and TWC backend support conferenced in on the same call. It also turned out that there was another customer in Raleigh who was having the exact same problem and they were troubleshooting his issue at the same time as mine. They solved his first and then repeated the steps with me and it worked immediately.

The solution was simple...follow the instructions EXACTLY! In all the previous times we left the first working cablecard in and just put a second one in and tried to get that to work...with no results. This time we went back to step one and followed the instructions form TiVo exactly.
1. Restarted TiVO and then pulled the plug...no power.
2. Removed BOTH cablecards (including the working one..this made me nervous)
3. Plugged TiVo back in and restarted without any cablecards.
4. Once it rebooted...went to the cablecard setup screen
5. Inserted the first (working ) cablecard.
6. Waited for the first cablecard to authorize and receive all channels (about 5 mins)
7. Tested the channels on cablecard #1 and verified it was working.
8. Returned to the cablecard setup screen
9. Inserted cablecard #2 in the slot
10. Waited for cablecard #2 to say it was authorized (cablecard diag screens)
11. TWC reprovisioned the card (sent signal to it)
12. Went to test the channels on cablecard #2 and waited (less than 5 min)
13. All the channels began to work perfectly.
14. Verified that all channels worked on both cablecards
15. Jumped up and down and shouted with excitement since it was finally working!

The TWC engineer had walked through these steps with two seperate customers experiencing the same problem within a period of one hour and the end result was the same...both working perfectly. The conclusion was simple...if you know you have all of the customer provisioning records correct, then you just need to follow the TiVo install instructions provided exactly... no short-cuts! Hopefully this will help someone else experiencing similar problems.

While my experience wasnt exactly fun, I accepted it as part of the pain for being on the "cutting edge". I have only positive things to say about Time Warner Cable and TiVo support for their tenaciousness in seeing this problem through until it was solved...of course if tomorrow morning I awake to find it no longer working I will be sure to post another message cursing them all!


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

besposito said:


> For the past two weeks I have been working with Time Warner Cable (Raleigh) and TiVo to get my cablecards to work in my Series 3. I have learned a ton about what causes the many issues people have seen and what it took to get it to finally work. I wanted to post this thread to outline what I found out.
> 
> MY SETUP:
> I have two TiVo S3s each with two cablecards. The first one was installed and work fine immediately. The second had the typical problems seen by many. Because I had two S3s with one working and one not, I was able to narrow down the problem.
> ...


Congrats!! I think you will wake up happy. Since TWC Raleigh got mine up and running about 10 days ago, my cablecard 'adventure' has been flawless. I also give kudos to TWC Raleigh as they worked tenaciously on mine too! Now if we could just get them to offer Digital Simulcast basics on cablecard..... please? please??

Don


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## wbradney (Mar 4, 2003)

Congratulations. It makes me shudder to think how lucky I was my install worked in the end. I had three guys here pulling and pushing cards left right and center without so much as a glance at the instructions.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

It's very hard to get the installers to read the instructions when they're paid by the install, generally they seem to want to slap the cards in and leave.


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## NetJunkie (Feb 19, 2003)

It's funny. I'm in Whitsett (Between Greensboro and Burlington) after living in Raleigh for 10 years. I was really worried about my install as they don't seem to do much out here. It took 2 hours for our basic box and DVR install when we moved. But..I was pleasantly surprised. Their people on the phone knew exactly how to handle CCs. In a little over half an hour the S3 was fully operational.


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## ingenue007 (Aug 23, 2005)

Ugh I am going on 6th tech visitation. I will get them to follow this exactly next time. I am beyond frustrated.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Are you saying once the first CC works, you have to complete a soft restart, then pull the plug?

After that you have to insert CC1 as mentioned, wait for it to "set up" then insert CC2 as mentioned?


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## besposito (Jan 30, 2005)

HDTiVo said:


> Are you saying once the first CC works, you have to complete a soft restart, then pull the plug?
> 
> After that you have to insert CC1 as mentioned, wait for it to "set up" then insert CC2 as mentioned?


 No, I had to pull plug and restart because I didnt originally follow the directions. You have to start assuming none of the cards are working...even if the first one is. So in my case, pulling the plug and starting fresh with no cards was my way of going back to day one without anything working. Then go step by step with each card.

If you are doing a new install, then just bootup without the cards in and start with the instructions.

If you have already tried to install the cablecards and they are not working 100% then start where I did by unplugging, removing all, and restarting.


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## bferrell (Jun 22, 2005)

By restarting, though, do you think it's OK to just power the unit down, put card 1 in, verify it's working, let it acquire all of the stations, and then insert card 2, and do the same, without having the cable company do anything?

Reason is, I have one S3 downstairs, and it works perfectly all of the time, and the instructions were followed (really coincidence, but they were). The second one has the all of the "digital tier" channels all of the time, but not the "HD Tier" (not the locals, just inHD1/2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, and ESPNHD) which had to be added to my account. While they were authorizing that first card, he inserted card 2, and authed it. All seemed well, and usually is, but occasionally I get no HD Tier channels, but all of the 900 series "digital tier" channels (even the HD ones) work fine. If I go in and look at the card data, it says "waiting for auth". Checking back later, the auth signal is received, and all is well again, for awhile. 

TWCinci came by today, did nothing, and declared "that's Tivo's problem", and left. Argh.

Brett


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

besposito said:


> For the past two weeks I have been working with Time Warner Cable (Raleigh) and TiVo to get my cablecards to work in my Series 3. I have learned a ton about what causes the many issues people have seen and what it took to get it to finally work. I wanted to post this thread to outline what I found out.


Minor thread hijack. I'm in the Raleigh market and haven't gotten an S3 yet. One of the reasons is that a couple of us have heard that in TWC Raleigh you can't get the digital simulcast of the analog channels with a cablecard. Can you confirm or deny that? Without all digital it's just not worth the hassle right now to offload my HR10-250 for lower quality video recording for non-HD channels.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

pkscout said:


> Minor thread hijack. I'm in the Raleigh market and haven't gotten an S3 yet. One of the reasons is that a couple of us have heard that in TWC Raleigh you can't get the digital simulcast of the analog channels with a cablecard. Can you confirm or deny that? Without all digital it's just not worth the hassle right now to offload my HR10-250 for lower quality video recording for non-HD channels.


Confirmed..... True..... However... the S3's recordings of the Analog channels blows away what the S2 recordings look like. I was totally impressed. You can tell that 2-98 are analog by the fact that the Tivo askes for the 'quality' setting for recordings on those channels. Recording digital channels do not offer this setting. I had previously called no digital a dealbreaker.... but im glad that I didnt listen to myself.... and so am I....


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## LeeHarvey (Jan 25, 2002)

Congratulations!

I've always considered Tivo to be tops due to its intuitive and simple interface. They've completely dropped the ball on the setup - I'd suggest that these instructions are not simple, and are error-prone. At the very least, removing one card to setup the other is counter-intuitive. If removing a card can't be avoided, the software could certainly recognize this situation and put a warning screen up.



> The solution was simple...follow the instructions EXACTLY! In all the previous times we left the first working cablecard in and just put a second one in and tried to get that to work...with no results. This time we went back to step one and followed the instructions form TiVo exactly.
> 1. Restarted TiVO and then pulled the plug...no power.
> 2. Removed BOTH cablecards (including the working one..this made me nervous)
> 3. Plugged TiVo back in and restarted without any cablecards.
> ...


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Wow!
I knew the folks at Alviso had an above-par sense of humor, but this ...



besposito said:


> 15. Jumped up and down and shouted with excitement since it was finally working!


... is awesome!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

LeeHarvey said:


> They've completely dropped the ball on the setup - I'd suggest that these instructions are not simple, and are error-prone.


Disagree 100%.

The instructions are about as easy as you could make them for a multitude of cable companies and different manufacturers of CableCARDs. MAYBE they could've had one side for Motorola CableCARDs and one for SA cards, but that's about it.

Most of the install problems have one of three things in common -

1) Customer account not provisioned properly
2) CableCARDs not initalized or provisioned properly.
3) Not following the directions about which card to do first (or trying to do both at once).


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

jfh3 said:


> Most of the install problems have one of three things in common -
> 
> 1) Customer account not provisioned properly
> 2) CableCARDs not initalized or provisioned properly.
> 3) Not following the directions about which card to do first (or trying to do both at once).


You forgot #4:

4) Cable company sucks so hard that provisioning signals cannot leave their event horizon and reach the customers' cards.


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## jacksonian (Nov 3, 2003)

I vote for pruning this thread down to the incredibly important stuff and making it a sticky for all us folks who are getting ready to have our Cable Cards installed and want it to go as smoothly as possible. 
Thanks besposito!


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

jacksonian said:


> I vote for pruning this thread down to the incredibly important stuff and making it a sticky for all us folks who are getting ready to have our Cable Cards installed and want it to go as smoothly as possible.
> Thanks besposito!


OK, here ya go:

Step 1. Give Instructions to cable installer.
Step 2. Beat them with a wet noodle until they read *AND FOLLOW* them.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I can offer my Comcast secrets to the thread:


Tech arrives on time with 2 CableCARDS
Tech reads Tivo instructions
Tech ignores the "install 1, activate, install 2nd" instruction
Tech installs both cards at the same time
Tech calls to activate cards
I assist since the letters are a bit small for him to see
Activation works fine, channels populate
Commence watching HD via Tivo, have refreshing beverage

It really was that easy.. I was stunned.
I was this techs 1st series 3, but his lead tech had done one the day before and said it was a piece of cake..

Diane


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## Leo_N (Nov 13, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> I can offer my Comcast secrets to the thread:
> 
> 
> Tech arrives on time with 2 CableCARDS
> ...


Agreed, it seems like the most difficult part of the whole procedure are these 2 things:
1. Are the cards good/programmed correctly?
2. Are the people on the other end of the phone authorizing the cards trained correctly and/or capable?


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## WJB21 (Oct 4, 2006)

Thank you for such a detailed anaylsis! I have the same problem you had after you solved your Problem 1 -- except mine is reversed: The CC in slot 2 works fine - the CC in slot 1 is missing the digital tier and premium channels. I get this "missing rekey" message on slot 1's conditional access screen. 

I have had a 2 hr phone call to no avail with comcast and also a tech visit who looked thouroughly bewildered and had no cable cards on him to try to replace the non working card....

Sounds like there may be hope for me from your message -- but a couple questions are in order --- when you Restart tivo does that wipe the season pass and to do list settings?

Is it critical to have slot 1 work first before putting card in slot 2 --- or in my case can I just leave slot 2 alone since its working and have them try to hit 1 after a power down?

If slot 2 is working ok -- and I move it to slot 1 --- does the working card now in slot 1 need to be "hit" again from the cable company before it works?

Ideally I would just prefer to power it down -- take both cards out -- power up tivo -- navigate to CC screen -- move the working card from slot 2 into slot 1 -- wait for slot 1 to start working -- put nonworking card in slot 2 -- wait for slot 2 to bring up the cable provider screen - then call cable company and have them hit slot 2 --- then hope for the best.

This sound like a doable plan? ( i suppose if I have to call cable company after i put working card in slot 1 then so be it -- i have also heard that they may have the same host ID for both cards which is something i should probably check first)

Thanks again!


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## rasandefur (Sep 28, 2006)

besposito said:


> For the past two weeks I have been working with Time Warner Cable (Raleigh) and TiVo to get my cablecards to work in my Series 3. I have learned a ton about what causes the many issues people have seen and what it took to get it to finally work. I wanted to post this thread to outline what I found out.
> 
> MY SETUP:
> I have two TiVo S3s each with two cablecards. The first one was installed and work fine immediately. The second had the typical problems seen by many. Because I had two S3s with one working and one not, I was able to narrow down the problem.
> ...


 Beposito,
Do you know the name/number of your service technician? I'm with TWC-Raleigh, and I'm waiting for my third tech visit today. The other two had no idea what they are doing, and I'm losing my mind. Last night I got a call from TWC saying that they knew of "no successful Tivo installs in the area", and I mentioned you and SCSIRAID and told him I knew that was not true. He told me if I could give him more information, he may be able to have that tech come out.

Thanks in advance for any input you can give me!


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## rasandefur (Sep 28, 2006)

Hi, all,
The following link explains how cable cards work, and I found it invaluable in determining what's going on with the messages I'm receiving about "Waiting for EMMs", and "No ECMs detected". (I haven't posted 5 messages yet, so I can't embed the URL. You'll have to interpret my link below and type it into your browser).

arstechnica *dot* com *slash* guides *slash* other *slash* cablecard.ars *slash* 2

I'm currently receiving the "Waiting for EMMs" message on Card 1 under PowerKey Status, and now I know that this means that my card is waiting for the signal from the cable company to authorized me to decode a certain set of channels. 

Check it out - just some more ammunition to use when the the cable installer tries to blame the Tivo or the cards themselves.


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## TechDreamer (Jan 27, 2002)

I'm amazed that the OP is so happy about paying big bucks to Tivo and Time Warner to be a Beta tester. So Tivo and Time Warner bent over backwards to help you? So they of course paid you for all the time you lost?


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## jacksonian (Nov 3, 2003)

TechDreamer said:


> I'm amazed that the OP is so happy about paying big bucks to Tivo and Time Warner to be a Beta tester. So Tivo and Time Warner bent over backwards to help you? So they of course paid you for all the time you lost?


Come on, this is a stupid post. Early adopters know what they're getting into. If you're not willing to deal with these kinds of issues, don't do it. But don't be "amazed" either. And yes, it's a good thing that TWC and TiVo bent over backwards to get the situation resolved. Time Warner certainly didn't get paid for all of those visits and time spent on resolving this issue. I doubt many of us would do that much work without getting paid (and to support a competitor's product).


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## Duke (May 6, 2000)

rasandefur said:


> Hi, all,
> .... (I haven't posted 5 messages yet, so I can't embed the URL. You'll have to interpret my link below and type it into your browser).
> 
> arstechnica *dot* com *slash* guides *slash* other *slash* cablecard.ars *slash* 2
> ...


Here you go:
http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/cablecard.ars/1


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## eisenb11 (Sep 6, 2006)

Doh. I gave the instructions to the installer and he didn't follow them... setup both cards at once.

The idiot wouldn't listen to me when I told him that's not how to do it.

I have the same problem now where I get some channels, but not others.

He's coming in again on Friday, this time I'm going to MAKE him do it right.


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## Skeuomorph (Sep 26, 2006)

LeeHarvey said:


> They've completely dropped the ball on the setup - I'd suggest that these instructions are not simple, and are error-prone. At the very least, removing one card to setup the other is counter-intuitive. If removing a card can't be avoided, the software could certainly recognize this situation and put a warning screen up.


Actually, in these 14 steps, you do NOT remove the working card to configure the second, you leave it in while adding the 2nd at the appropriate time, and not before. (Like Monty Python's "Holy Hand Grenade" instructions!)

Most installers are ignoring the Cable Installer instructions included with the unit, and either (a) randomly inserting and removing the cards throughout, or (b) putting them both in at the start.

The 14 steps listed here are the steps printed by tivo in really easy letters on the card it tells you to give to the cable guy.


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## jacksonian (Nov 3, 2003)

Skeuomorph said:


> Actually, in these 14 steps, you do NOT remove the working card to configure the second, you leave it in while adding the 2nd at the appropriate time, and not before. (Like Monty Python's "Holy Hand Grenade" instructions!)
> 
> Most installers are ignoring the Cable Installer instructions included with the unit, and either (a) randomly inserting and removing the cards throughout, or (b) putting them both in at the start.
> 
> The 14 steps listed here are the steps printed by tivo in really easy letters on the card it tells you to give to the cable guy.


That is correct, I'm looking at the instructions now, it doesn't say anything about removing the 1st card when you set up the 2nd.


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## jacksonian (Nov 3, 2003)

Well, just finished my install and everything went perfectly, even though it *shouldn't* have. The first card he put in was still paired to a Sony TV, but we went forward anyway. We couldn't authorize the first card for my HD and digital tier first because the rep on the phone said it wouldn't let her do that until the work order was finished, and she couldn't finish the work order until both cards were in. So I reluctantly agreed to go forward with the 2nd card even though we hadn't finished the first. But within a minute of getting the second card # read to the rep on the phone, both cards were working perfectly. 

I'm on TWC Greensboro/W-S/HP in NC. My tech's name was Trace and the phone rep was Rochelle. She was key in getting this working right because she recognized the card was paired wrong and got everything authorized and provisioned correctly.

Good job, TWC. BTW, the tech said they had just been handed the S3 instruction sheet (copy of what comes with the S3) just this past Friday and said, "if you come across any of these, Good luck!" The tech said when he walked in and saw the TiVo he was thinking "Oh no, I'm the first one. He was very appreciative that I knew what to expect and had all my tips ready.


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## besposito (Jan 30, 2005)

pkscout said:


> Minor thread hijack. I'm in the Raleigh market and haven't gotten an S3 yet. One of the reasons is that a couple of us have heard that in TWC Raleigh you can't get the digital simulcast of the analog channels with a cablecard. Can you confirm or deny that? Without all digital it's just not worth the hassle right now to offload my HR10-250 for lower quality video recording for non-HD channels.


I am not sure this is true. I am able to get the Digital locals - channels 200-255 without any problems. They look great. In fact this is one of the few things that worked on both of my S3s from day one, even when the rest of the channels didnt work.

Are you talking about not being able to get 200-255? If so , this isnt true. You can get them from TWC Raleigh (at least in Wake Forest)


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## stekson (Oct 26, 2004)

glad to hear you got that to work... i have cablevision and haven't been able to get everything working, despite two seperate truck rolls... i'm not getting some channels in the 100's, as well as one or two hbo's... they have used multiple cards and multiple flashes but no luck... 

question though... if i remove the cablecards myself, and restart and try reinserting, do i need to get cablevision to reflash, or should the box be able to pick it up itself? don't want to remove the cards and then have to have cablevision come back to do it...


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

besposito said:


> I am not sure this is true. I am able to get the Digital locals - channels 200-255 without any problems. They look great. In fact this is one of the few things that worked on both of my S3s from day one, even when the rest of the channels didnt work.
> 
> Are you talking about not being able to get 200-255? If so , this isnt true. You can get them from TWC Raleigh (at least in Wake Forest)


The locals arent the issue.... its the basics... like A&E, FX, TWC, USA, ESPN etc etc. Those are analog via cablecard but digital via TWC STB.


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## besposito (Jan 30, 2005)

SCSIRAID said:


> The locals arent the issue.... its the basics... like A&E, FX, TWC, USA, ESPN etc etc. Those are analog via cablecard but digital via TWC STB.


Gotcha...i guess I didnt really notice any difference in those channels moving from the TWC PVR to the S3. That being said, I agree that the S3 analog looks pretty good compared to the TWC digital. Maybe if I had side by side it would be obvious, but it wasnt when I switched and that alone wouldnt have stopped me from switching.


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## jslaprarie (Oct 4, 2006)

besposito said:


> The solution was simple...follow the instructions EXACTLY! In all the previous times we left the first working cablecard in and just put a second one in and tried to get that to work...with no results. This time we went back to step one and followed the instructions form TiVo exactly.
> 1. Restarted TiVO and then pulled the plug...no power.
> 2. Removed BOTH cablecards (including the working one..this made me nervous)
> 3. Plugged TiVo back in and restarted without any cablecards.
> ...


This tidy bit of information worked like a charm for me in the Seattle area. First card worked like a charm, but the second card I brought home would not show any video or audio (got channel info, but nothing else). Took that one back the next day, got another and then found the article above and followed that to a tee with the tech on the phone and voila! I now have audio and video in that wonderful HD goodness!

Thanks again for the info!


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## haysdb (Dec 11, 2002)

I will be installing my own cablecards. I contacted Charter and they said just stop by the office and pick them up. Sounds good to me. The techs never do anything I couldn't do myself. I have the "Instructions for CableCARD Installers" from Tivo. Seems simple enough for anyone "comfortable with technology."


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## chrispitude (Apr 23, 2005)

My installer kept wanting to try to install both cards at once. We had major problems until finally I demanded that he follow the instructions on the Tivo S3 installation sheet he was holding but not reading. Once we did this, it worked fine - mostly. There's still some problems with one channel working intermittently. Strangely enough, I got a call from a tech on Friday telling me that they may have found some errors in my entered CC information and that the head office would get back to me.

It seems like when the installation becomes more complicated than screwing this threaded coax cable thingy into that connector thingy, it's really asking a lot of people up the chain...  

- Chris


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## ncbagwell (Feb 15, 2005)

rasandefur 

I am also in the Raleigh area and a success story under the "besposito method" 

Both Anthony and Rashaad with TWC know what they are doing and have successfully helped with Tivo installations. 

All of the installers (the guys who actually come to your house) don't work for TWC - keep that in mind. So it's best to just have them talk to Anthony or Rashaad before they do anything. It took 3 visits and 14 cable cards but when all of the instructions on this thread were followed EXACTLY, it worked like a charm and has worked ever since.


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## jonnio (Jan 26, 2008)

Time Warner cincinnati recently updated service to allow all standard tier HD channels to be accessed via cable card. Previously, ESPN2 HD, Food HD, etc were not available.

You have to ask TWCINCI to re-pair the card with the host id so the cable card will decode the new channels.

I have both tivo S3 and HD and they both work fine with two cable cards each.


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