# Men of a Certain Age - All Summer 2011 season thread (spoilers allowed)



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Let's use this for the season discussion thread.

Loved the first episode. The characters are still so well written. I wonder what Owen's strategy is with his dad to get him to agree to sell the dealership. It appears his insistence of them building the body shop is phase 1.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I disagree -- I think when Owen woke up he realized that the decisions/commitments from the night before were a drunken mistake, and the next day decided not to sell, but go the other way and dig in further to owning and running the dealership.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Hank said:


> ...Owen woke up he realized that the decisions/commitments from the night before were a drunken mistake....


I completely agree.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Unfortunately, I agree. I mean, Unfortunately because I think it would be a fun twist to have him sell the dealership and then have them deal with all the changes that would bring.

Interesting that not only was Terry in a reverse situation (him thinking it was not a fling and her dumping him), but also Ray's ex getting dumped by the man that broke up their marriage.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Hank said:


> I disagree -- I think when Owen woke up he realized that the decisions/commitments from the night before were a drunken mistake, and the next day decided not to sell, but go the other way and dig in further to owning and running the dealership.


I think you may be right, but the thing that bothers me about this, if that's what he's doing, is that the whole reason he didn't build it in the first place is because the dealership was in big time debt. So how can he justify putting them in MORE debt to do this? Getting his father to agree to sell gets them both out of that hole. I wonder perhaps if he was feeling his dad out for how much interest he really has in running the dealership? When he approached his dad (still seems weird to me that he calls him daddy, as if he were a 10 year old boy) about the body shop, his dad quickly said, that he had to go. Maybe that was a sign that the dad is not all that interested in running things anymore.

We shall see.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I think that Owen did seriously want to sell the dealership, until he realized that his wife doesn't give a rat's ass about what he wants or needs, never did, and ignored the entire discussion because she was too involved in her activity.

That is, until he told her how much she would get out of it, THEN she was interested. I swear, that woman's cut of the same cloth as Lynette Scavo on Desperate Housewives.

Different people treat the Dad/Daddy thing differently. I call my mother Mommy, and called my father Daddy until he died in 1989 when I was 19. I'd still call him that if he were alive. Did you ever watch Dallas? They all called Jock Ewing Daddy when they were well into their 40s.

Greg


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## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

I'm growing a bit tired of Terry and his "landlord" problems. He needs a break...preferably one that makes him some money.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Terry and his landlord problems just means he needs to take responsiblity for what he agreed to do. Or pay rent.


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## ireland967 (Feb 27, 2003)

I thought for sure the son was going to say something awkward about understanding his mom is "going through the change" when he got home early. Was pleasantly surprised he just went with a hug.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I thought for sure that Owen was going to say something really embarrassing into the GMRS radio that someone who works for/knows Scarpula and it would have backfired the next day. I know that is a cheap plot device, but I really thought it could happen.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> if that's what he's doing, is that the whole reason he didn't build it in the first place is because the dealership was in big time debt. So how can he justify putting them in MORE debt to do this?


Here's what I see (maybe this is too realistic for a TV show).. sell the empty lot at a loss. Either OT paid cash for it, in which case, will give OT 2.0 needed cash to pay down some of their existing debt and/or equip the body shop. OT 1.0 did say he gave them a low-ball offer and "practically stole" the property, so I would guess he paid cash for it.

Or if OT 1.0 mortgaged the empty lot, sell the empty lot, pay off all of (or as much as possible) it's mortgage, which will free up cash-flow from the debt-service on the mortgage, allowing them to invest (borrow) for the body shop.

And they might get a tax write-off for the loss on the sale.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

It seems pretty clear from what we've seen that the body shop is either outmoded or non-existent. I'm not a businessman, but if either of those things are true, then building a new one might make perfectly good sense. You _might_ be throwing good money after bad, but then again, you might not. Maybe you're paving the way to better business in the future.

I work in an industry that has been absolutely devastated by the economic situation of the last few years. Over this time, we've had salary cuts, benefit cuts, and massive layoffs, but at the same time we have invested money in areas we have neglected or ignored in the past. As a result, we are now one of only a very, very small handful of surviving competitors in our market.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Owen changed his underwear in the morning and found he still had balls. Agree with previous comments, sell the unused property even at a loss to free up money to get a loan for the bodyshop and Owen can show Scarpula that he isn't his daddy's *****.

Oh and why can't I meet strippers with hearts of gold?


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

I was surprised to see this show up in my now playing list. I thought my Tivo grabbed a re-run, I am not home now, but I swear the episode was 207 or something like that.

Anyway glad to see the show return. One of the best shows on TV (IMHO) so that means it will most likely soon get canceled.


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## garys67 (Jan 13, 2005)

That was my thoughts exactly. The other dealer is going to find another lot somewhere, even if the OTs don't sell theirs. So, perhaps the OTs will just sell the empty lot to the other dealer. Since we do not really know the value of the empty lot, just the debt on it, they might even be able to recoup enough to fund the body shop, even as a down payment on a business loan.



Hank said:


> Here's what I see (maybe this is too realistic for a TV show).. sell the empty lot at a loss. Either OT paid cash for it, in which case, will give OT 2.0 needed cash to pay down some of their existing debt and/or equip the body shop. OT 1.0 did say he gave them a low-ball offer and "practically stole" the property, so I would guess he paid cash for it.
> 
> Or if OT 1.0 mortgaged the empty lot, sell the empty lot, pay off all of (or as much as possible) it's mortgage, which will free up cash-flow from the debt-service on the mortgage, allowing them to invest (borrow) for the body shop.
> 
> And they might get a tax write-off for the loss on the sale.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

It is my impression that "the debt" is from borrowing to repay the withholding taxes (or the debt is directly to the IRS). I don't think it was ever revealed how the empty lot was paid for (cash or mortgage).


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> ...the whole reason he didn't build it in the first place is because the dealership was in big time debt. So how can he justify putting them in MORE debt to do this?.


It's basic "you have to spend money to make money". Once they build the body shop, they would then (hopefully) start pulling in a larger profit, thus getting them out of debt even faster than if they didn't build the shop.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

the new lot, if IIRC, is in a different part of town, as OT wanted to expand his reach. Don't see that being useful to Scarpella if they want the delaership to keep their operations adjacent.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Agreed.

In a previous thread, I said they should turn it into a youth center/BB court.. but that was before we learned they were in so much debt.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Finally watched the show. I'm on the fence between the different interpretations y'all have put out there regarding OT and his decision/strategy.

One thing I noticed in the last scene that no one has mentioned (so maybe I imagined it?) was the cup of coffee Owen had in his hand. In the previous scene with Scarpula (sp?) they made a point about mentioning his coffee cup ("we got a new coffee machine") and then we see the same type of coffee cup in Owen's hand before he talks with his dad. I took that to mean that Owen had just came from Scapula's dealership, presumably to make some kind of deal (or maybe to officially turn down his offer). Opinions?

Ray Romano continues to impress me with his ability to balance the comedy with the pathos. The scene where the was talking with the stripper about his ex-wife was classic. 

I assume we'll find out the girl working in the party store is illiterate ("it looked like another party hat"). I hope they don't make too much of a side story out of that.

This episode just flew by. I have a feeling the short season will fly by as well.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jradosh said:


> I assume we'll find out the girl working in the party store is illiterate ("it looked like another party hat"). I hope they don't make too much of a side story out of that.


Interesting take on that. I was thinking it was just to show how little a handle Ray had on what was happening in his store. Sort of like, well, he is out doing the golfing thing and not paying attention to, or managing the store as well as he could.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I don't think she's illiterate.. Joe would have figured that out before now, I'm sure. 

I'm on the fence about the coffee cup thing.. on one hand, it's a great little trope/foreshadow that I'm sure (if true) very few people caught and brilliant on the filmmaker's part. On the other hand, those generic coffee cups are everywhere. I think it's the same cups I've seen Terry use during the same episode, and my g/f has a stack in her closet.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I just re-watched the episode for the great coffee cup caper, and (1) the cups aren't as generic as I remember, and (b) the "Scarpula" cup was very different from the "OT 2.0" coffee cup at the end. Although they really did make it a point to strangely highlight the coffee cups in both scenes.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I guess we'll find out next week (about Owen's strategy and if the cups had meaning).


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Thanks to this thread, we've become huge fans of this show, though we're still just going through Season 1. Watched episode 6 last night. Last 10 seconds may have been the funniest we've seen on TV in a long time...


Spoiler



Where the girl who works for Joe talks about him jerking off at his desk, in spanish, after the whole "Go With The Flow" part of the episode.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I want to know what's up with that diner they all go to. That place has very few people eating there whenever they go. I hope it doesn't go out of business....


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

New episode was just awful. Terry is back to being a child like Jerk, Romano's character is heading back down the gambling rat hole. Both of these were distractions I was happy to leave behind.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Well, yes the plot was awful, but I think the show held itself up. I also didn't like the kid's band... in fact, I hate the entire subplots with Joe's son.. he's just a bad actor. And despite Joe's gambling addiction, he is way smarter than to start taking bets. At least we know the other gambler is a restaurant owner and not an undercover cop (doesn't mean he isn't a snitch though). I also think Terry is way smarter than to hit Marcus with the car in front of customers, no matter how pissed off they are with each other. The entire show was wrought with sub-par writing and bad decisions by the characters. Hopefully it will get better, and this was just a temporary backslide.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

He did take a bet. He told the guy that his friend accepted the bet when he had not. So, Joe was taking the chance that they bet DID NOT pay out and he got to keep the $100. Gambling pure and simple.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> He did take a bet. He told the guy that his friend accepted the bet when he had not. So, Joe was taking the chance that they bet DID NOT pay out and he got to keep the $100. Gambling pure and simple.


Obviously, but he was acting as a bookmaker, and not just a gambler... there's a huge difference.

If the guy was a cop, Joe could be arrested for a much more serious charge than just gambling.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Hank said:


> Obviously, but he was acting as a bookmaker, and not just a gambler... there's a huge difference.
> 
> If the guy was a cop, Joe could be arrested for a much more serious charge than just gambling.


A bookmaker is a business man. He takes bets on both sides and uses the spread to manage his risk. Joe just took the bet. Either he gets to keep the $100 bet or he has to pay out whatever the odds on that bet were. Sounds like gambling to me but I get your point.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I see it as a slippery slope, and Joe not being able to resist the "juice" he gets from it. It won't be long until he starts taking over more and more of Bert's book. And I think just because he didn't have any bets on the other side doesn't mean he wasn't book making.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Didn't Joe stop making his golf bets as well? I wonder if he's going to resume doing that now that his gambling itch has been scratched by his bookmaking.

Intelligence and Terry decision-making have nothing to do with each other. Heck, he took College Hottie back to her own dorm instead of returning to the Casa, those dorm beds are uncomfortable!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Hank said:


> I see it as a slippery slope, and Joe not being able to resist the "juice" he gets from it. It won't be long until he starts taking over more and more of Bert's book. And I think just because he didn't have any bets on the other side doesn't mean he wasn't book making.


This. I can see where this is going. It appears his opportunity to make the Senior Tour is slipping away. His coach is quitting and he seems very bored with running his store. He needs something to get his competitive juices flowing. This will be it. And you know this will end poorly.

As for Terry, I hated that it took that direction, but I liked his interaction with Owen. I think it's one of those parables about friendship. Owen has to decide how to handle his friend since it has some effect on his business. Does he back his friend or fire him? If Terry wasn't his friend, he'd have canned him. But Owen also sees potential in Terry, as he was one of his top salesman.

As for Joe's son, I think what they are trying to do is show that his son is like Joe. He has a short attention span and needed something to get his juices flowing, and the band was basically the thing for him. I have a son like that, and the only thing that has ever kept his attention for more than a few minutes was his art work.

Yeah, not the best episode, but I think it sets up a lot of what will happen the rest of the season.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

A lot of the episode was spotty, but I was cracking up a lot at the surprise 50th birthday party.


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## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> New episode was just awful. Terry is back to being a child like Jerk, Romano's character is heading back down the gambling rat hole. Both of these were distractions I was happy to leave behind.


I liked it, and feel just the opposite from you.

Lots of people act like jerks when they think they've lost someone who could have been "the one". And I'm sure many gambling addicts sometimes slip or find other ways to get their fix.

These slip-ups make the characters more believable IMO. Watching them fail and then right their ships is the enjoyable part for me.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

"***** stole second."


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

JETarpon said:


> "***** stole second."


That's the bad side of the young ones. 

The lesbian ball player recruitment scene was great. The expressions on Joe's face as he's trying to be PC.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I thought it was a great episode. 


However, no clue why any hot, young chicks date Terry. He looks soooooo old and gross.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

This was the best episode so far this season. The softball game was awesome!!


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## full_heart (May 13, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> However, no clue why any hot, young chicks date Terry. He looks soooooo old and gross.


He has the persona of someone that is younger than his age and its usually the ones with daddy issues that will date someone that much older than them. Being someone who has loved Scott Bakula since I was about 10 I can say he is still really hot but I wouldn't date him.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> This was the best episode so far this season. The softball game was awesome!!


Owen Jr. FTW! 

But best line was indeed "***** Stole Second."


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> I thought it was a great episode.
> 
> However, no clue why any hot, young chicks date Terry. He looks soooooo old and gross.


I agree with this.
He seems like a magnet for women, but as a woman, I just don't see it.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

HomieG said:


> Owen Jr. FTW!
> 
> But best line was indeed "***** Stole Second."


My son added:

"***** stole second....and headed for home!!"

I loved the reaction of Terry's older GF when this all happened.

I also thought they did a great job of casting the young GF and her "mother". They really looked like they could be related.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jilter said:


> I agree with this.
> He seems like a magnet for women, but as a woman, I just don't see it.


I'm not a woman, obviously, but aren't there a lot of women attracted to men who act like "little boys"? Terry certainly is that.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I also thought they did a great job of casting the young GF and her "mother". They really looked like they could be related.


Yes, we noticed that as well!


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Did anyone notice the ep title: "A league of their Owen"?


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I'm kind of worried about Joe getting into the actual booking on the guise of looking into his sick friend's business. Nothing good can come of that.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Hank said:


> Did anyone notice the ep title: "A league of their Owen"?


:up:

Nice pun about that lesbian movie. Love it.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Handan and I both were creeped out each time we saw Terry in a scene with the college girlfriend. But we loved the look on the roommates face every time Terry showed up. 

I was not crazy about the return of Joe's girlfriend. First of all I find her character annoying, but also I thought the performance was a little over-the-top and unbelievable. The whole scene where she's turned on by his being a bookie just didn't ring true to me. /shrugs

And yeah... the "recruiting the lesbian" scene was great. :up:


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

jradosh said:


> I was not crazy about the return of Joe's girlfriend. First of all I find her character annoying, but also I thought the performance was a little over-the-top and unbelievable. The whole scene where she's turned on by his being a bookie just didn't ring true to me.


Yes, she is annoying, and yes, it's a little over-the-top, but I once had a l/t g/f like that (to a lesser extent), so I could see it.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

jradosh said:


> Handan and I both ....


I see you're up to date... what did you want to ask about the first season/episode?


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Hank said:


> I see you're up to date... what did you want to ask about the first season/episode?


I forget.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

jradosh said:


> I was not crazy about the return of Joe's girlfriend. First of all I find her character annoying, but also I thought the performance was a little over-the-top and unbelievable. The whole scene where she's turned on by his being a bookie just didn't ring true to me.


Now she's gone to far into annoying land in the latest episode. Joe should just dump her ass already-- she becoming much to much of a liability then anything. Nobody would be that dumb to talk about the bookie thing, or make out in front of the employees. She's toast.

I liked the rest of the episode though. I really liked Joe trying to collect that $5k. But again, (I think) Joe is actually smarter than that -- to take a $5k bet from some new, totally unknown and untrusted person? That was Joe's big mistake, and no bookie would ever do that. I also though Terry's g/f was going to pee in the corvette or maybe "Thoreau up".

So who do we think is roughing up Joe in the next episode? Does Bert find out that Joe was taking some betting action from him? Does the deadbeat hire a friend to get Joe off his back? (Although it looks like Joe may have had an epiphany at the end of this weeks ep).


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

full_heart said:


> He has the persona of someone that is younger than his age and its usually the ones with daddy issues that will date someone that much older than them. Being someone who has loved Scott Bakula since I was about 10 I can say he is still really hot but I wouldn't date him.


I loved him since I was...well, since Quantum Leap at least. I would date him in a second, however I am not a young college gal.


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

I've watched all episodes, and I can't figure out how did Owen's wife go from happy that he is selling the dealership, to completely forgetting about it


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

ozzman73 said:


> I've watched all episodes, and I can't figure out how did Owen's wife go from happy that he is selling the dealership, to completely forgetting about it


For exactly the same reason we never found out what happened to Finn on the Sopranos when he caught Vito giving the security guard a blow job at the construction site. Subplots live a bright but very short life.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Hank said:


> So who do we think is roughing up Joe in the next episode? Does Bert find out that Joe was taking some betting action from him? Does the deadbeat hire a friend to get Joe off his back? (Although it looks like Joe may have had an epiphany at the end of this weeks ep).


Joe isn't getting beat up. Any action he can't collect he put behind him because he realized he doesn't have the temperament to be a bookie. Bert will be mad cause he's lost money or he's lost clients.

Terry moving in is going to mess things up. You know that the settled life isn't a long term solution. Look for Ms Base Stealer to make an appearance.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

The whole, "I've got to pee" thing was ridiculous. There's no way I wouldn't have made him stop somewhere before I got home.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Ment said:


> Joe isn't getting beat up.


Did you see the previews for next week? Someone is smacking Joe around the store.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Hank said:


> Did you see the previews for next week? Someone is smacking Joe around the store.


My guess was Bert or someone Bert hired. Bert isn't going to be happy when he finds out Joe is telling his clients that he's out of the business. Not to mention Joe taking bets from them.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Ment said:


> Look for Ms Base Stealer to make an appearance.


She's ancient history at this point and won't show up again. OTOH, I wouldn't mind seeing cute coffee shop girl popup from time to time.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Bob Coxner said:


> My guess was Bert or someone Bert hired. Bert isn't going to be happy when he finds out Joe is telling his clients that he's out of the business. Not to mention Joe taking bets from them.


Skipped out before the previews. Now that I've seen it.

I don't think Bert would do that to Joe, not without confronting Joe himself for an explanation. Don't think its related to gambling at all, maybe 1) store robbery 2) When-in-town-GF is actually married and its her husband that found chat logs or something.



Hank said:


> She's ancient history at this point and won't show up again. OTOH, I wouldn't mind seeing cute coffee shop girl popup from time to time.


 :up: Coffee shop girl is good prospect to re-complicate Terry's life.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

When I look at coffee shop girl, I think of Stuart from MadTV.


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## dbranco (Nov 20, 2003)

Hank said:


> So who do we think is roughing up Joe in the next episode? Does Bert find out that Joe was taking some betting action from him? Does the deadbeat hire a friend to get Joe off his back? (Although it looks like Joe may have had an epiphany at the end of this weeks ep).


Can someone please tell me the rule for preview spoilers in an "All Season" thread? Even in the episode-driven thread that allows spoilers, talking about what you see in previews is a no-no. If this is allowed in the all-season threads, I'll have to avoid them in the future.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Even if this were an episode specific thread, previews should still be spoilerized.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I agree, previews should be spoilerized - in either type thread for a show.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Why? It aired during this week's show. It didn't really spoil anything since it didn't reveal what actually happened or who was involved or anything other than _someone_ being roughed up in Joe's Store... it might not even be Joe! So if you're watching regular TV and the previews for next week's show comes on, you'd see it anyway. Previews are not spoilers.. they're just teasers.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Hank said:


> Why? It aired during this week's show. It didn't really spoil anything since it didn't reveal what actually happened or who was involved or anything other than _someone_ being roughed up in Joe's Store... it might not even be Joe! So if you're watching regular TV and the previews for next week's show comes on, you'd see it anyway. Previews are not spoilers.. they're just teasers.


Because people PURPOSELY avoid previews because they don't want to know about anything that might happen in the next episode. I don't do that, but there are quite a few who do here.


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## dbranco (Nov 20, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Because people PURPOSELY avoid previews because they don't want to know about anything that might happen in the next episode.


This. Exactly.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Because people PURPOSELY avoid previews because they don't want to know about anything that might happen in the next episode. I don't do that, but there are quite a few who do here.


I'm not sure where I stand on spoilers, since this is an "all season" thread. Can anything that happens be off limits? If it were an episode only thread, then clearly the previews are off limits, but with a season thread I don't know.

And I'll also have to make sure I don't subscribe to this thread so the show isn't spoiled by email updates.

tk


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

I vote spoilerize previews in all threads, I watch them and even went to slow at the end of this weeks to see if I could see what happened (I couldn't).

But it is easy to do so I vote spoiler tags


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

Toward the end of this weeks episode I FF through a lot of Terrie's scenes, he just creeps me out.


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

Can someone explain just how the old man's kickback scheme worked? What was he "selling?" How was he stealing from the Thoreaus?


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed that he was selling the trade ins and getting a kickback on those cars. So the guy was buying a trade in for $1,500 and giving $200 directly to him.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Please, please, please get rid of Joe's girlfriend.  Her acting is horrible and there's no chemistry at all between the two of them.


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## boywaja (Sep 30, 2001)

billboard_NE said:


> I vote spoilerize previews in all threads,


Its not a vote. It is already in the rules at the top of the forum. 
People need to follow the rules.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=271608



> Anything shown on the previews of next week is considered a spoiler on this forum, and must be tagged as such, using spoiler tags.


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## spud (Mar 17, 2001)

EchoBravo said:


> Can someone explain just how the old man's kickback scheme worked? What was he "selling?" How was he stealing from the Thoreaus?





MNoelH said:


> I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed that he was selling the trade ins and getting a kickback on those cars. So the guy was buying a trade in for $1,500 and giving $200 directly to him.


I didn't get this either. It seemed more like he had a deal with someone who had recurring business with the dealership (another dealer, a parts supplier, or something like that), and he was taking a little bit of each transaction. His comment of "I'll pay it all back" seemed like it was an on-going thing rather than a one time thing.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

spud said:


> I didn't get this either. It seemed more like he had a deal with someone who had recurring business with the dealership (another dealer, a parts supplier, or something like that), and he was taking a little bit of each transaction. His comment of "I'll pay it all back" seemed like it was an on-going thing rather than a one time thing.


If you recall early in the episode Owen comments that the prices they are getting from the wholesaler who's been buying their trade ins seem low, and Bruce told him that that was just the market. Bruce was instead letting the wholesaler low-ball the buys, and getting a kickback for doing so. Bruce had also forced out all the other buyers to maximize his profit.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> If you recall early in the episode Owen comments that the prices they are getting from the wholesaler who's been buying their trade ins seem low, and Bruce told him that that was just the market. Bruce was instead letting the wholesaler low-ball the buys, and getting a kickback for doing so. Bruce had also forced out all the other buyers to maximize his profit.


That's a BINGO!

Bruce was turning away other wholesalers that would offer the business more money for the trade ins. The crooked wholesaler was giving the business a low ball amount and giving Bruce cash to make sure the OT would keep buying from him.


----------



## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

Thank you. Makes perfect sense now.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I watched this episode last night and was sort of bored by it all. Not as much fun as last weeks. The car cam was the most exciting stuff and Owen's speech afterwards. The melting candy was amusing too.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I enjoyed watching Terry struggle with his attempts at being mature.

And I was relieved that Joe saw the light and all it cost him was $1,200 in chocolate.

I know I'll be really pissed in a few weeks when this "season" is over.


----------



## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

Ment said:


> I don't think Bert would do that to Joe, not without confronting Joe himself for an explanation. Don't think its related to gambling at all, maybe 1) store robbery 2) When-in-town-GF is actually married and its her husband that found chat logs or something.





Spoiler



I was thinking maybe Bert has a boss or has to pay up to somebody for his turf. If Joe didnt know that, I can see that guy getting mad and coming to let him know he was behind on payments.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jradosh said:


> And I was relieved that Joe saw the light and all it cost him was $1,200 in chocolate.


Okay, I admit, that was a relief. His assistant's smirks about "it was a woman that made you forget" or some such is what I chuckled at.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Legion said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking maybe Bert has a boss or has to pay up to somebody for his turf. If Joe didnt know that, I can see that guy getting mad and coming to let him know he was behind on payments.


I think you're right about this. This is something I had not considered.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

MNoelH said:


> The whole, "I've got to pee" thing was ridiculous. There's no way I wouldn't have made him stop somewhere before I got home.


I could see that if Terry was obsessed with making the night go as planned he pushed back any concern about her being uncomfortable and prayed that she could hang on. I was cringing, knowing that the right, real, chivalrous play is to give up the plan and get her to a bathroom ASAP. I was afraid that that would be the smoking gun to make her think he's too self-obsessed and dump him again.

Think along the lines of the "if she reaches over and opens your door..." lesson in "A Bronx Tale." Little things show the character of who you're dealing with.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I just completed from watching the pilot to catching up on the whole two seasons of "Men of a Certain Age" in about 9 days. TiVo time with a huge media store is fun.

Now I don't want it to end. I think I'm getting inspired to reenter the old folks dating pool. 

There's a lot of danger is the air. Joe can't count on none of the gamblers mentioned to Menfro that he carried bets for them. Manfro might go "It's only business, Joe" on him.

Joe needs to put a sign on his office door, "KNOCK FIRST" and/or lock the door. I mean he was on the phone when Maria tore in with a lame "Can we put away Halloween stuff?'

I want to know where Owen got that spy camera setup that works in real time in any car anywhere wirelessly and can hear people when they're in quiet conversation 100 feet away.

Howcome Thoreau Chevrolet doesn't sell used cars? They need to get into the used car business before they open a body shop. And why would a guy bring in a Volvo for body work to Chevy dealer anyway? 

When are they going to order the Sirloin Steak and Eggs for $5.99?

How izzit they always get the same booth at Norms?


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Legion said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking maybe Bert has a boss or has to pay up to somebody for his turf. If Joe didnt know that, I can see that guy getting mad and coming to let him know he was behind on payments.





Hank said:


> I think you're right about this. This is something I had not considered.


Consider that the running joke from the pilot has been that whenever Manfro looks menacing it turns out he's harmless, even when Joe started off with telling him he couldn't pay while he had the dough in his pocket.

Manfro got mad and when he "snuck up" on Joe alone in his truck in the dark alley he apologized.

This may be another fizzle.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

netringer said:


> I want to know where Owen got that spy camera setup that works in real time in any car anywhere wirelessly and can hear people when they're in quiet conversation 100 feet away.


There are real systems out there -- technology wise, they could be as simple as an iPhone streaming live video over 3G. And that "conversation" was happening right next to the car, not 100 feet away.



netringer said:


> And why would a guy bring in a Volvo for body work to Chevy dealer anyway?


Because people are not always the brightest.. and there's no reason a body shop at a dealer can't work on other cars -- it's all profit.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

netringer said:


> ...Howcome Thoreau Chevrolet doesn't sell used cars? They need to get into the used car business before they open a body shop. ...


Doh! I'll answer my own question. GM/Chevrolet are a show sponsor. It's a product placement and they want people to buy new cars. Consider that we know all about the features of the Cobalt, Joe's truck, and the Corvette. We can be sure that just like in the old days when Samantha and Darrin always had a new Pontiac convertible, GM is supplying the cars.

Also Joe is plugging Titleist and there have been pop up ads for Golfsmart.


----------



## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Well we don't know that they don't sell used cars, do we? Only a small percentage of trade-ins stay on a car dealer's lot. Most of them are wholesaled off due to factors like high mileage, age, condition or lack of interest.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Exactly -- which was part of the scam Bruce was running -- wholesaling all their trade-ins.


----------



## full_heart (May 13, 2005)

betts4 said:


> I loved him since I was...well, since Quantum Leap at least. I would date him in a second, however I am not a young college gal.


I am 29 so not a young college gal either but I would still date him.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

Hank said:


> And that "conversation" was happening right next to the car, not 100 feet away.


It did pick up Terry's low volume conversation about moving in with his woman on the steps of her apartment. While probably not 100' it most certainly should have been out of mic range.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

That's true.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Loved the ads! I think if this was a real car dealership and they did that I would be writing about it on the TCF "annoying" thread. 

I enjoyed this episode. Lots of stuff going on and I want to rewatch it to see what I missed. And is it me or did they not eat at the diner in this one?


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Scarpula Hax!!!


----------



## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Loved the ads! I think if this was a real car dealership and they did that I would be writing about it on the TCF "annoying" thread.
> 
> I enjoyed this episode. Lots of stuff going on and I want to rewatch it to see what I missed. And is it me or did they not eat at the diner in this one?


I enjoyed the ads but I kept wondering how they came up with 500 costumes on a moment's notice.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Bob Coxner said:


> I enjoyed the ads but I kept wondering how they came up with 500 costumes on a moment's notice.


Remember, Terry said "Call Joe, get him over here" -- he has a party store with all the costumes. Although we never saw Joe in those scenes, which was weird.

I thought the commercials were just as bad as Scarpula's. Cheezy, cheap.. but yes, memorable. I liked the first one better -- classy, upscale.

And unless that show has some *****'n CGI members on their team, it sure looked like Ray Romano had a real tooth missing for those shots. Did he loose a tooth, and they worked it into the script?

And I'm guessing that Bert comes back and apologizes and blames his actions on the chemo. He didn't have to rough up Joe, though -- he should have just collected the money due to him and kept Joe as his "weird friend". Now that's all over, for sure.


----------



## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Hank said:


> Remember, Terry said "Call Joe, get him over here" -- he has a party store with all the costumes. Although we never saw Joe in those scenes, which was weird.
> 
> I thought the commercials were just as bad as Scarpula's. Cheezy, cheap.. but yes, memorable. I liked the first one better -- classy, upscale.
> 
> ...


I was never a fan of Bert, so I hope that is the end of it all. Since Bert trashed his store are they considered even on the $500? Also Bert didn't know about the $3k that electronics store guy gambled last week but never paid, doesn't Joe really owe him $3,500?

I have to suspend disbelief with Joe's Party store. I mean how can a guy make it selling party supplies with 4 employees in Southern California. Are party supplies really that profitable?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

The flaky guy bet $5k... and I don't think Bert wants it all, just some sort of commission or rake. Also, Joe took a few different bets from the restaurant guy, not just the $500.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

DeDondeEs said:


> I was never a fan of Bert, so I hope that is the end of it all. Since Bert trashed his store are they considered even on the $500? Also Bert didn't know about the $3k that electronics store guy gambled last week but never paid, doesn't Joe really owe him $3,500?
> 
> I have to suspend disbelief with Joe's Party store. I mean how can a guy make it selling party supplies with 4 employees in Southern California. Are party supplies really that profitable?


He does events and rents out equipment like the Bounce House, that probably brings in the bucks. A storefront by itself wouldn't be a great profit generator with the overhead.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Ment said:


> He does events and rents out equipment like the Bounce House, that probably brings in the bucks. A storefront by itself wouldn't be a great profit generator with the overhead.


Unless you're running a gambling ring in the back office.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Hank said:


> Remember, Terry said "Call Joe, get him over here" -- he has a party store with all the costumes. Although we never saw Joe in those scenes, which was weird.
> 
> I thought the commercials were just as bad as Scarpula's. Cheezy, cheap.. but yes, memorable. I liked the first one better -- classy, upscale.


They should run both commercials - the serious one mixed with the "stupid" ones.

What are the odds that a Terry can say "You got a green screen?" and they're off to the races with the right backgrounds to shoot the silly the silly commercials? I think that requires more than a little pre-planning.



Hank said:


> And unless that show has some *****'n CGI members on their team, it sure looked like Ray Romano had a real tooth missing for those shots. Did he loose a tooth, and they worked it into the script?
> 
> And I'm guessing that Bert comes back and apologizes and blames his actions on the chemo. He didn't have to rough up Joe, though -- he should have just collected the money due to him and kept Joe as his "weird friend". Now that's all over, for sure.


Don't ya think that Terry would have to be really dense to not guess that the attacker Joe is being hazy about is his bookie? He'd guess that Joe owed the bookie on bad bets, not for taking them.

Dunno how Bert thinks that Joe owes him money, but he can make a claim about a new guy horning in on his territory. I guess Joe found out that Manfro can be a tough guy.

Owen has a near heart attack from stress and it gets discarded? What about Owen Sr. angrily looking at the mess after the commercial shoot? He's gonna take control of the dealership back?


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

netringer said:


> And why would a guy bring in a Volvo for body work to Chevy dealer anyway?


I had my Jeep Liberty repaired at a local non-Chrysler dealership a few years ago when I hit a deer. It was, coincidentally, a Chevy dealership. I chose that body shop because they were approved by my insurance company. Also, when I called my local Chrysler dealership, and they informed me that they don't have a body shop, one of the recommendations they gave me were this Chevy dealership's shop.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Bob Coxner said:


> I enjoyed the ads but I kept wondering how they came up with 500 costumes on a moment's notice.





Hank said:


> Remember, Terry said "Call Joe, get him over here" -- he has a party store with all the costumes.


Also, we saw Terry returning the costumes to Joe - He was carrying a big box overflowing with some costumes and props into Joe's store when he found Joe on the floor right after Bert knocked out his tooth.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

netringer said:


> Owen has a near heart attack from stress and it gets discarded? What about Owen Sr. angrily looking at the mess after the commercial shoot? He's gonna take control of the dealership back?


Yeah, I'm wondering if this ep was a precursor to Owen having a heart attack in a future episode. And I definitely think Owen Sr. is going to try and bring down some sort of hammer on Owen Jr. because of the commercial. Perhaps the confrontation is what sends Owen Jr.'s heart over the edge.


----------



## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I'm not sure why I let this bug me, but it continues to do so in many shows I watch. When a cancer patient loses their hair, they lose their eyebrows too (as well as arm hair, leg hair and other hair). The eyebrows are what, to me, makes them look sick; otherwise, they simply look bald. They should've gone the extra step and removed Manfro's eyebrows.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

MNoelH said:


> I'm not sure why I let this bug me, but it continues to do so in many shows I watch. When a cancer patient loses their hair, they lose their eyebrows too (as well as arm hair, leg hair and other hair). The eyebrows are what, to me, makes them look sick; otherwise, they simply look bald. They should've gone the extra step and removed Manfro's eyebrows.


It looked to me like they died his eyebrows blonde. I'm sure the actor didn't want to get shaved.

We can guess that the reason he wore a baseball cap at first was cover up his hair until they put a bald cap on him in his last appearance.


----------



## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I thought they looked really dark brown, but I could be mistaken and don't have the episode any more. I can understand the actor not wanting to shave his eyeborws off. He'd look sick.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)




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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

netringer said:


> What are the odds that a Terry can say "You got a green screen?" and they're off to the races with the right backgrounds to shoot the silly the silly commercials? I think that requires more than a little pre-planning.


I think they could go to images.google.com and get every background in about 1/2 an hour tops.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I was so happy that Joe's girlfriend wasn't in this episode. 

But on the other hand, what happened to her?


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

jradosh said:


> I was so happy that Joe's girlfriend wasn't in this episode.
> 
> But on the other hand, what happened to her?


She only comes into town for work, I'm sure she's off to other ports of call in the interim. She did say she may be losing her job so that may be the last we see of her.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I was so happy that Joe's girlfriend wasn't in this episode.
> 
> But on the other hand, what happened to her?





Ment said:


> She only comes into town for work, I'm sure she's off to other ports of call in the interim. She did say she may be losing her job so that may be the last we see of her.


Last week when they were fooling around in the office, as she went out the door she said that she wouldn't be back in town for another month.

Greg


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Ment said:


> She only comes into town for work, I'm sure she's off to other ports of call in the interim. She did say she may be losing her job so that may be the last we see of her.





gchance said:


> Last week when they were fooling around in the office, as she went out the door she said that she wouldn't be back in town for another month.
> 
> Greg


I think she was saying that her company lost the account in town that she was working on, so she wont' be around for Joe so much.

Now Joe can hook up with Fantasy Woman.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

netringer said:


> Now Joe can hook up with Fantasy Woman.


... or dental hygenist (again).


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

netringer said:


> What are the odds that a Terry can say "You got a green screen?" and they're off to the races with the right backgrounds to shoot the silly the silly commercials? I think that requires more than a little pre-planning.


Or if this were reality, they would have just shot the green screen shots and added the backgrounds later in post-production. They would likely base the shots on what costumes they had available and went from there without any background. And I don't think there were any shots that specifically interacted with the backgrounds requiring the actors to actually know/see what's back there in real time.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Hank said:


> Or if this were reality, they would have just shot the green screen shots and added the backgrounds later in post-production. They would likely base the shots on what costumes they had available and went from there without any background. And I don't think there were any shots that specifically interacted with the backgrounds requiring the actors to actually know/see what's back there in real time.


The surfing shot required, to an extent, knowledge of the wave behind (at least what direction it was heading).

I think that they were just showing the finished commerical (background married to green screen) to us so we 'got it'. I didn't take it to mean that they did the entire commercial production on-set.

...

By the way... one of my favorite bits from "Whose Line Is It Anyway" is when they do the green-screen on-site reporter bit. Hilarious!


----------



## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

Hank said:


> I thought the commercials were just as bad as Scarpula's. Cheezy, cheap.. but yes, memorable. I liked the first one better -- classy, upscale.


If anything, the bad commercials sell. Remember the series 'King of Cars' about a guy selling cars in Vegas? He had a 30 minute tv show which was car ads with silly characters. Clearly it was working for him.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

I can't believe there is only one more episode left in this season. These summer seasons on cable come and go so quickly around here. 

Can someone jog my memory and tell me what the deal was with the dental assistant?


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I can't believe there is only one more episode left in this season. These summer seasons on cable come and go so quickly around here.
> 
> Can someone jog my memory and tell me what the deal was with the dental assistant?


Joe went with "We're being honest" and told her he won the down payment for the house. She never returned his calls after that, we can assume, because she picked up on his gambling problem.

When they meet on the last episode she advises him, "Don't let 'Bad Joe' take control" which looks to make Joe shape up and try for the senior tour.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

More dental assistant :up::up:

Less freaky professional biotch :down::down:


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

what Hank said :up:

...but throw in "fantasy woman" in the mix.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

netringer said:


> Joe went with "We're being honest" and told her he won the down payment for the house. She never retuned his calls after that, we can assume, because she picked up on his gambling problem.


So he was dating her 1 or 2 seasons ago? IMDB says she first appeared in 2009 and was only in 4 episodes.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> So he was dating her 1 or 2 seasons ago? IMDB says she first appeared in 2009 and was only in 4 episodes.


Season one. She's the level headed one. Course Joe wasn't ready for a long-term relationship right after his divorce/separation so the gambling issue deep sixed them. I think she should make another appearance after Joe goes on a date with the 'fantasy' women and finds out there's no 'there there'


----------



## scooterboy (Mar 27, 2001)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> These summer seasons on cable come and go so quickly around here.


[insert munchkins giggling]


----------



## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Frylock said:


> If anything, the bad commercials sell. Remember the series 'King of Cars' about a guy selling cars in Vegas? He had a 30 minute tv show which was car ads with silly characters. Clearly it was working for him.


Bad commercials and jingles for car dealers. I haven't lived in Southern California for more than 25 years but the "go see Cal" jingle and the ads with Cal and "his dog Spot", which was really a tiger/bear/kangaroo/whatever are burned into my brain.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cal_Worthington

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZ19GeK14Y&feature=related[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGEYCsvPJzw[/media]


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Bob Coxner said:


> Bad commercials and jingles for car dealers. I haven't lived in Southern California for more than 25 years but the "go see Cal" jingle and the ads with Cal and "his dog Spot", which was really a tiger/bear/kangaroo/whatever are burned into my brain.


A LOT of people hated Cal Worthington simply because of those spots. He had a dealership here in the Sacramento area, so we got to see them up here as well.

We also had the benefit (as did many other markets) of Ernest P. Worrell... heh.






Greg


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Back to the show... just an OK episode. Nothing really earth shattering or unexpected to talk about. No real clifhangers. Joe will get back with Dory. Terry and Erin will work it out. Terry will finally "find his way." directing. OT won't sell to Scarpula after all. OT 2.0 will turn the dealership around. 

And by the way, while Cheverolet is mentioned in the credits "For promotional consideration", Titleist was not, which is strange, since it was plastered over everything golf.


----------



## MikeD99 (Nov 11, 2005)

Wasn't Tums featured prominently, too? Or am I remembering another show completely?

Mike D.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I guess the heart attack we all expected for Owen never happened.

Shades of Caddyshack during the golf tourney.

Terry back to being a dreamer.

I still like the show, but it seems like everything that went forward during the season kind of all reverted back to where it was at the beginning of the season.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

It's not the destination, but the journey.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> I guess the heart attack we all expected for Owen never happened.
> 
> Shades of Caddyshack during the golf tourney.
> 
> ...


Not really. Joe is in the tourney thanks to an act of god. Owen stood up to his daddy and let him know how he felt about the car dealership. I thought that was a great moment when he said told his dad that he didn't know what else he would do at age 50 because this is what he had been doing and preparing for.

All three guys approached their coming of age - 50 - as a turning point. Terry as a director ("give me one year"), Joe in the Tourney at 50 as the youngest guy there, and Owen standing up to his dad and not letting him push him into starting over.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

I've even served as volunteer staff at a Senior Tour tourney (but not a player at all. I know nuttin') but some of the golf stuff I'm hazy on.

I gathered that Joe was carrying too many clubs (over 15?) entirely, which was a two stroke penalty when he admitted it. When he told his son he was going to take the hard shot over the trees what was he saying?

I guess I should have kept my mouth shut when I was driving those golfers around. I got to drive two of the Four Tops - only two because all but two hate each other.

I thought the finale was OK. We got to see all three at a turning point.

Joe's placing on the tour was way hokey, but I'll accept it.

Thoreau, and especially Thoreau Senior are going to have to answer for the freeloader. The lesson is you can't offer any kind of good consumer deal and not expect that some ahole is going to abuse it and ruin it for for everybody. (My neighbors witnessed the event that triggered the new rules for the All you can eat deal at a local restaurant.)

Terry is going to make it as a director. Erin did say she doesn't date _actors_. He won't be acting. Consider that his buddy the hot movie star wanted his talents.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

netringer said:


> (My neighbors witnessed the event that triggered the new rules for the All you can eat deal at a local restaurant.)


Well? You can't leave us all hanging like that!


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

scooterboy said:


> [insert munchkins giggling]


:up::up::up:

I thought the season finale was pretty well done. I think of course that Terry will still struggle with directing. Especially when he realizes that he won't be able to create nearly as much as he thought. It will probably be the Producer telling him to stick to what's written.

So what will be the thing that turns Thoreau Chevrolet around? Obviously the car wash promotion helped, but that won't be sustainable.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> So what will be the thing that turns Thoreau Chevrolet around?


Taking on another GM marque or a new make altogether. Around here, there's a Cadillac/Volvo dealer, for example. There's also the lingering body shop. Or maybe Scarpula closes down first -- maybe their offer to buy Thoreau was a last ditch effort to consolidate the compeition and save themselves.


----------



## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

Hank said:


> Taking on another GM marque or a new make altogether. Around here, there's a Cadillac/Volvo dealer, for example. There's also the lingering body shop. Or maybe Scarpula closes down first -- maybe their offer to buy Thoreau was a last ditch effort to consolidate the compeition and save themselves.


I'd be surprised if Scarpula closes. Owen almost needs that dealership to keep him motivated. Especially since they seem to beat Owen at everything... well, except softball once.

The body shop or another nameplate would help. But getting out of a hole that deep will be tough.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> ...So what will be the thing that turns Thoreau Chevrolet around? Obviously the car wash promotion helped, but that won't be sustainable.


Owen Jr. will somehow build the Glendale location and it'll be a huge success. (in THIS economy )


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Hank said:


> Well? You can't leave us all hanging like that!


The "All you can eat" policy at the Asian restaurant was "pick any appetizer." So they brought in the ....ummmmmm..... _challenged_ "friend" who said, "OK. Now bring me the next one..." until she had eaten every single one.

Now it says you're limited to two appetizers. I guess you could still order every entree AFAIK.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Wow.. that story wasn't nearly as exciting as I had built it up to be in my head. Somehow, I envisioned a huge dispute and police, etc. But thanks for sharing!


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I thought this 'season' ending episode was a good counterpoint to the mid-season ending episode. There was nice kind of open-ended closure (if you will) provided for all three characters.

But the rain thing at the golf tournament was a bit contrived I thought. There were other ways they could have handled that.

And the guy with the megaphone calling "bait and switch" was a bit over-the-top. Kind of reminded me of that guy in Family Guy that protests outside of Peter's house yelling about a "big cheater" (wish I could find a YouTube clip for reference).

I'm not sure what I was supposed to take away from Joe and the cold water. Was that a substitute for his gambling thrill? Is he just a masochist? 

Reference to "Deadwood" in spoilers just-in-case...


Spoiler



Anyone here watch "Deadwood" and expect "Hostettler" to blow his brains out again this episode? That actor sure can play 'angry'.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I don't think there's anything to the ice-water, except that Joe keeps forgetting that it hurts his tooth. I don't think he ever did it intentionally.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Hank said:


> I don't think there's anything to the ice-water, except that Joe keeps forgetting that it hurts his tooth. I don't think he ever did it intentionally.


I thought Joe specifically said something about doing it on purpose at the diner? I've deleted the episode so I can't check.

But in the last scene it seemed like he really did it on purpose. :/


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jradosh said:


> I thought Joe specifically said something about doing it on purpose at the diner? I've deleted the episode so I can't check.
> 
> But in the last scene it seemed like he really did it on purpose. :/


It also seemed to me like he was doing it on purpose in that scene. He looked up at himself in the mirror for a couple seconds. Maybe he was just thinking about his age or his future, but the drink of water seemed more planned then just a rinse after brushing.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

You're right -- I forgot about those scenes. But at the same time, I think it's just as he says -- like when you have a really sore throat, you keep swallowing to see if it still hurts, hoping it feels better, but it never does.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

I was watching an Everybody Loves Raymond episode the other day and there was a reference to their neighbor Mrs. Scarpula. I got a kick out of that.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I don't know a ton about golf, but...



netringer said:


> I've even served as volunteer staff at a Senior Tour tourney (but not a player at all. I know nuttin') but some of the golf stuff I'm hazy on.
> 
> I gathered that Joe was carrying too many clubs (over 15?) entirely, which was a two stroke penalty when he admitted it. When he told his son he was going to take the hard shot over the trees what was he saying?


Since they didn't remove the club they decided not to go with, he was carrying one too many clubs. The penalty was two strokes because they were at the beginning of the third hole (one stroke per hole for too many clubs). Had his son not realized the mistake until after the fifth hole, it would have been a five stroke penalty.

His son/caddie advised him to go for the set up shot for a bogie (one over par). He decided to play the more difficult shot and achieve par instead of a bogie on that hole.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

vman41 said:


> I was watching an Everybody Loves Raymond episode the other day and there was a reference to their neighbor Mrs. Scarpula. I got a kick out of that.


Romano's wife's last name.


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

jradosh said:


> I thought Joe specifically said something about doing it on purpose at the diner? I've deleted the episode so I can't check.
> 
> But in the last scene it seemed like he really did it on purpose. :/


I think he compared the tooth to having a pimple that hurt every time you touch it but you can't help but to keep messing with it.

As for the scene after he brushed his teeth, i just assumed he knew what was coming so he was just delaying it.


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## bobino (Jul 24, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I thought Joe specifically said something about doing it on purpose at the diner? I've deleted the episode so I can't check.
> 
> But in the last scene it seemed like he really did it on purpose. :/


Yes, he did. He realizing life if a series of painful disappointments mixed with a few joyful and arbitrary successes (eg, the golf tournament). He's taking control of the pain, telling himself he can handle whatever life hands him.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

/Did not read any of this thread yet.

I have been saving the eps this season for something to watch that I look forward to.
6 episodes!!!! 6 episodes?!?! Not enough.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I thought I recalled seeing in the opening credits that the show was going to have Sarah Chalke as a guest star. Isn't that the girl from Scrubs? I didn't see her on the show, or is there another Sarah Chalke? Or did I read it wrong?


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

DeDondeEs said:


> I thought I recalled seeing in the opening credits that the show was going to have Sarah Chalke as a guest star. Isn't that the girl from Scrubs? I didn't see her on the show, or is there another Sarah Chalke? Or did I read it wrong?


I think you're confusing Sarah Clarke who played Dory with Sarah Chalke. Even if Chalke was considered for a role at some point I'm sure her now canceled sitcom Mad Love took priority.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Ment said:


> I think you're confusing Sarah Clarke who played Dory with Sarah Chalke. Even if Chalke was considered for a role at some point I'm sure her now canceled sitcom Mad Love took priority.


Ah, that's what it must have been.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jilter said:


> /Did not read any of this thread yet.
> 
> I have been saving the eps this season for something to watch that I look forward to.
> 6 episodes!!!! 6 episodes?!?! Not enough.


This was only the second half the the second season. The first half of Season 2 aired last December/January. There were 12 total episodes in S2 after 10 total episodes in S1. 22 episodes total.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> This was only the second half the the second season. The first half of Season 2 aired last December/January. There were 12 total episodes in S2 after 10 total episodes in S1. 22 episodes total.


Six-episode half-seasons with nearly 6 months in between is crazy. It's not surprising that viewership fell.


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