# Why use pyTivo, Tivo Desktop Plus works fine



## Proszell (Mar 24, 2005)

I transfer all my my .m4v movies over to my new Tivo Premiers. No problem and it's easy to use. I researched this forum and found tons of stuff on pyTivo (before I bought Tivo Desktop Plus).

pyTivo seemed really hard to install and use. What am I missing?


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## Iluvatar (Jul 22, 2006)

Proszell said:


> I transfer all my my .m4v movies over to my new Tivo Premiers. No problem and it's easy to use. I researched this forum and found tons of stuff on pyTivo (before I bought Tivo Desktop Plus).
> 
> pyTivo seemed really hard to install and use. What am I missing?


TD+ is very limiting in what you can push onto the TiVo. For me it was a resource hog, stalled/crashed frequently and usually didn't reliably work. pyTivo on the other hand, while not as user friendly up front (not harder to use at all), works with almost every format you can think of. It is light on resources and additionally works where TD+ doesn't, namely OS X, Linux, NAS devices....and for all of $0 you get frequent updates that often add features not found in TD+.

If TD+ works for you that is great. pyTivo is there for others who don't want to pay or have more needs than what TD+ can provide for.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Proszell said:


> I transfer all my my .m4v movies over to my new Tivo Premiers. No problem and it's easy to use. I researched this forum and found tons of stuff on pyTivo (before I bought Tivo Desktop Plus).
> 
> pyTivo seemed really hard to install and use. What am I missing?


1. TD+ costs money.

2. pyTivo supports more video formats.

3. pyTivo supports multiple folders.

4. pyTivo works on Win2K.

5. pyTivo processes text metadata.

I could go on but that is enough.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

PyTivo is totally free. Lets me transfer from multiple folders, push video to my playlist. I recently fixed the photo library with a download, now I can view photos. There is less CPU processing on Pytivo vs. TD/+.

It can also be used with KMTTG for other processes, and multiple jobs/downloads.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Proszell said:


> pyTivo seemed really hard to install and use.





Iluvatar said:


> pyTivo on the other hand, while not as user friendly up front


This idea that TiVo Desktop is easier to install doesn't resonate with me, at all. Not even a little bit. Here's me trying TD for the first time:



> 1. I have to use a Windows system, even though all my videos are on a Linux box.
> 2. It won't run in an unprivileged account, like I normally use; I have to use an admin account, even though all my stuff (that isn't on the Linux box) is in the other account.
> 3. It _insists_ on running at startup (or rather, some of its multiple component processes do). But I don't want it to!
> 4. I have to use this "My TiVo Recordings" folder. What is this?


So I hadn't even used it yet, and already I hated it.

Meanwhile, this is me trying pyTivo -- listed as steps, not complaints, since I had none of the latter:



> 1. Download it (to my Linux box).
> 2. Uncompress it.
> 3. pico pyTivo.conf
> 4. ./pyTivo.py (in my unprivileged account)
> ...


I should note that I'd just come off of setting up Galleon on the same box, which was a huge hassle, so my first (very positive) impression of pyTivo stood in contrast to that, as well as to my experience with TiVo Desktop.



Iluvatar said:


> and for all of $0 ... pyTivo is there for others who don't want to pay


I have to say here that this is 0% of my thinking about pyTivo, and in fact, if anyone's using it solely for that reason, I'd really rather they didn't. I'm not out to undercut TD+. I fault it for the way it works (or doesn't), not for its price.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

Proszell said:


> pyTivo seemed really hard to install and use. What am I missing?


I can dump all kinds of junk into my pyTivo video folder and it 'just works', showing up on the Tivo flawlessly. It automatically transcodes everything I throw at it. It's been a while, but I recall not having that experience with Tivo Desktop.

Furthermore, I'm able to use pyTivo with an inexpensive Linux box as a digital video library.

However, YMMV. If Tivo Desktop+ work for you, and you're satisfied with it, then there's no need for you to do anything else.


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## Iluvatar (Jul 22, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> This idea that TiVo Desktop is easier to install doesn't resonate with me, at all. Not even a little bit.


I understand you get a little miffed when someone says that but I will disagree, where speaking of Windows specifically, I have seen many of the average user get confused on the first step.....download pyTivo...not to mention having to install Python (while not hard, adds to the steps) and for many who want it on start-up: pyWin, figuring out the pyTivoService as well as the occasional firewall issue.

I would say that, in general, pyTivo is only minimally more effort to setup on Windows for those who make it past step one in that you have to open your browser to the admin page and type in your share info versus having a GUI button with pretty pictures on it.



wmcbrine said:


> I have to say here that this is 0% of my thinking about pyTivo, and in fact, if anyone's using it solely for that reason, I'd really rather they didn't. I'm not out to undercut TD+. I fault it for the way it works (or doesn't), not for its price.


Again, I know what your stance is on this point but I certainly wasn't stating that pyTivo is out to steal TD+ business. However it certainly is a valid reason that some consider. My feeling is that if TiVo want's to put out a program that minimally provides the quality and features that it markets and charge $25 for it, that is on them. TiVo is certainly able to offer up something more substantial for the cost. The users on the other hand are perfectly capable of figuring out whether TD+ is worth the money or not themselves.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Iluvatar said:


> I have seen many of the average user get confused on the first step


True. But here's the thing: pyTivo is not aimed at the average user. And, I'd kind of appreciate if they'd stop expecting -- or, in many cases, demanding -- that it be.

To anyone who thinks that pyTivo looks difficult: It's not meant for you.


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

On the Mac, someone made pyTivoX, which is drop dead simple. It would be nice if someone made a drop dead simple installer for pyTiVo on Windows that installed Python, pyTivo, went and pulled down ffmpeg and asked you some questions and made a conf file for you. But I think the current developers of pyTivo have enough to do without maintaining a full GUI installer.

I don't have a Windows box in my house, or I might consider creating an HTA to do it all.

I bought my TiVo 2 weeks prior to Verizon coming out. I used that TiVo box every day of those two weeks because of pyTivo. pyTivo is quite literaly the #1 thing that makes TiVo fat superior to the cable company DVR. I know the UI is better, and all that, but being able to get videos on and off the box is a huge win over the cable company DVR,


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

Use what works for you. I used free Tivo Desktop but it often either hung up or just sat with the busy indicator whirling. Yes, I initially struggled with setting up and using programs like kmttg and pyTivo but now that is all I use. I do resonate with the sentiment that it would be nice if it was easier for the "average user" to get up and running. I'm a retired software engineer but I'm also totally ignorant in areas like Linux, Java, and Python.


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## westside_guy (Mar 13, 2005)

I agree with lillevig. If you're happy with Tivo Desktop Plus, then run with it - especially since you've paid for it.

Personally, I found pyTivo to be trivial to set up and use on my Mac. And, for any Mac users who've found it challenging - there's always pyTivoX which is drop-dead simple (addendum: ha ha, didn't see plazman30's comment at first!).

Younger Windows users seem to have become unfamiliar with the command line (good luck with Windows 8 Server, BTW - from what I hear, they're going back to the command line!). I think it does make using this sort of application harder for them, at least when they run into problems.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> True. But here's the thing: pyTivo is not aimed at the average user. And, I'd kind of appreciate if they'd stop expecting -- or, in many cases, demanding -- that it be.
> 
> To anyone who thinks that pyTivo looks difficult: It's not meant for you.


I think that was the point of the person who said its 'more difficult' - it's not for the average user. As you point out pytivo is not for the more "basic" windows users who can't figure out where microsoft word is saving their files.

But for the medium users, people should know there is a windows installer for us dumbo's. You just run that and it basically sets everything up. Then you download the most current and put it on top of that- and you would be pretty well set although maybe not with the best of all the options.

I own a TD+ key but use pytivo- honestly forget why. i seem to recall that TD is a pain with multiple file locations and i just happen to set up my storage so i have things in multiple places- but I'm not sure. Might have been a problem converting things. It's been years so not really sure.

I know where to find my word files- ;-) but that might be about my limit.

So I do wish Tivo (or someone) made something as useful as pytivo that was moron install ready. The few times (I am half afraid to touch it so only update if there's something "broke") I've went to update pytivo its a couple hour task to read up again for me what to do, figure out what version i want/need and where to get it, and then do it. And I would have gladly paid for such a thing from whomever made it. (right now "it aint broke" so I'm not going to fix it- maybe when i move off my current file server...)

I understand what I'm getting into and have nothing but appreciation for your and other's efforts with pytivo.

(and to be sure- MANY times the crappy TD software screws up installation and requires hoop jumping...)


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

westside_guy said:


> ...
> Younger Windows users seem to have become unfamiliar with the command line ....


I think it's much more than that- I'd say the vast majority of the population doesn't know how to use the command line. Old, young, whatever. I dont think it's a stretch to say that a majority dont even know command line exists. I'm talking young (my pre-teen aged kids), middle aged (my wife) , or old (my retired parent, in-laws.).

It all depends on what they use computers for. My retired father was a programmer and system analysts and programmed with punch cards using cobol i think- he gets the command line. My retiring in-laws (blue collar father in law and office worker mother in law) literally dont know where the find files that word has saved. My 20 something brother in law has AOL email and also can't figure out where his files are saved either- he's a bartender. His brother is self taught web designer for major e-commerce websites. I know and can use the command line, my wife is lost outside of a GUI.

There are some that dont know it exists, a miniority subset that use it well, and there are arepeople (cough cough- me)- that understand there is a command line and know very very basic commands and can retype specifically what told- But we're paranoid about syntax and messing something up.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

You don't even need to directly access the CLI to install/configure/run pyTivo.

(When I first started programming, using a CLI at a terminal was a step UP.)


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> You don't even need to directly access the CLI to install/configure/run pyTivo.
> 
> (When I first started programming, using a CLI at a terminal was a step UP.)


I wouldn't be where i am myself without the windows installer. 

But your make a great point- it's beyond needing to know about the command line. For a large percentage of the world, anything besides just clicking a single install.exe is over the top.

One of my clients uses a chemical inventory system that gets installed on the network server so multiple users and multiple sites are all accessing the same data. The ".exe" sits on a server. To make it simple the network guy sends an email with the shortcut to the program for the end users. Probably 3/4's of the people can't handle this- they dont know what to do with it- they can't figure out to put it on their desktop- they go to save it and they dont know where it got saved. If he had to explain to them how to navigate to a network share and click the link from there it would be impossible. They had to move from one server to another about SIX months ago. The poor guy still gets nasty emails every other week (where the writer cc's everyone and their brother) yelling at him that the system is not working- to which he kindly points out how to unzip the shortcut and put it on their desktop (actually embedding it in the start menu would be days of explanation- lol).

This is a research lab environment with more phd's then you can shake a stick at- all of them using a computer all day long.

like wmcbrine said "pyTivo is not aimed at the average user"


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> like wmcbrine said "pyTivo is not aimed at the average user"


True. But then neither is TD+. And getting regular TD working again on Win2K after the "expired certificate" fiasco was much more difficult than installing pyTivo.


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## DeWitt (Jun 30, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> True. But then neither is TD+. And getting regular TD working again on Win2K after the "expired certificate" fiasco was much more difficult than installing pyTivo.


Win 2K? Wow! that made me smile... been a while.


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## Shanezam203 (Jul 28, 2007)

I second that Tivo Desktop and the upgrade to Plus for $25 was well worth it & is working fine with all my media. I also have apple TV, so it's nice I can play many different file formats now on my Tivo. 

One DVD I have on my PC will not transfer, it freezes my Tivo and it would be nice to make folders for some of my Movies from my PC on the Tivo. 

But other than that, I've had good luck with Tivo Desktop and would gladly pay the $25 again.


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

You guys know about kmttg?

http://code.google.com/p/kmttg/


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

plazman30 said:


> You guys know about kmttg?
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/kmttg/


Uh, yeah. Not really relevant to the discussion at hand.


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## poppagene (Dec 29, 2001)

Proszell said:


> I transfer all my my .m4v movies over to my new Tivo Premiers. No problem and it's easy to use. I researched this forum and found tons of stuff on pyTivo (before I bought Tivo Desktop Plus).
> 
> pyTivo seemed really hard to install and use. What am I missing?


If you're running Windows, all you need is java and the windows installer here:

http://code.google.com/p/pytivo-jkasyan-fork/downloads/detail?name=SetupPyTivo.exe&can=2&q=

Setup isn't too hard either. For me, the biggest benefit of pytivo is being able to access my Playon server through the tivo now playing list.


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## supersnoop (Nov 13, 2007)

Iluvatar said:


> pyTivo on the other hand, while not as user friendly up front (not harder to use at all), works with almost every format you can think of. It is light on resources and additionally works where TD+ doesn't, namely OS X, Linux, NAS devices....and for all of $0 you get frequent updates that often add features not found in TD+.


Can anyone elaborate on how "light" pyTivo is? I'm looking for a solution to run on a thin client connected to a nas. How much processing power does pyTivo need?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

supersnoop said:


> Can anyone elaborate on how "light" pyTivo is? I'm looking for a solution to run on a thin client connected to a nas. How much processing power does pyTivo need?


Its much less than Tivo Desktop Plus which ran over 50% on startup with the server.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

poppagene said:


> If you're running Windows, all you need is java and the windows installer here:
> 
> http://pytivo-jkasyan-fork.googlecod...etupPyTivo.exe
> 
> Setup isn't too hard either. For me, the biggest benefit of pytivo is being able to access my Playon server through the tivo now playing list.


It appears the TCF, Firefox, Win2K or some combination thereof has a problem with URLs that long. It should be

```
http://pytivo-jkasyan-fork.googlecode.com/files/SetupPyTivo.exe
```
Does this installer check to see if you already have a compatible version of Python installed before it downloads and installs 2.7?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> It appears the TCF, Firefox, Win2K or some combination thereof has a problem with URLs that long.


It's TCF, but it's not really a problem. What happens is, the URL is shortened for display purposes, but it's linked to the full thing. Where that becomes a problem is if someone tries to copy and paste the shortened URL from the displayed text (as opposed to, at least in Firefox, right-clicking and selecting "Copy Link Location", which works). That seems to be what happened here. See:

http://pytivo-jkasyan-fork.googlecode.com/files/SetupPyTivo.exe

It looks truncated, but it's valid if you click on it.



> _Does this installer check to see if you already have a compatible version of Python installed before it downloads and installs 2.7?_


As mentioned, jkasyan's version relies on Java (via Jython) rather than Python. See here:

http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/pytivo-for-jython-windows-installer-t1610.html


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> It's TCF, but it's not really a problem. What happens is, the URL is shortened for display purposes, but it's linked to the full thing. Where that becomes a problem is if someone tries to copy and paste the shortened URL from the displayed text (as opposed to, at least in Firefox, right-clicking and selecting "Copy Link Location", which works). That seems to be what happened here. See:
> 
> http://pytivo-jkasyan-fork.googlecode.com/files/SetupPyTivo.exe
> 
> It looks truncated, but it's valid if you click on it.


The ones you posted are valid. The one in the post I quoted is not. Looks like that one was created via cut & paste from another post.



wmcbrine said:


> As mentioned, jkaysan's version relies on Java (via Jython) rather than Python. See here:
> 
> http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/forum/pytivo-for-jython-windows-installer-t1610.html


So what gets downloaded and installed are Java byte code modules created using jython?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> The ones you posted are valid. The one in the post I quoted is not. Looks like that one was created via cut & paste from another post.


Right, that's what I said.



> _So what gets downloaded and installed are Java byte code modules created using jython?_


I guess. Anyway you don't need Python.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> I guess. Anyway you don't need Python.


And as you pointed in the pyTivo forum, it's functionally equivalent to py2exe except it produces a package executed by a JVM rather than native windows. I just hope no one blames you if no fixes or enhancements get incorporated into this.

I'd also be interested in a performance comparison between this and a py2exe created .exe


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Proszell said:


> I transfer all my my .m4v movies over to my new Tivo Premiers. No problem and it's easy to use.


If by "use" you mean transferring titles to the TiVo via the TiVo NPL, then pyTivo is precisely the same as TDT. Vidmgr as a front end for pyTivo blows it out of the water.

If by "use" you mean manage the titles on the server, then TDT is pathetic.



Proszell said:


> I researched this forum and found tons of stuff on pyTivo (before I bought Tivo Desktop Plus).


That should tell you something. That a large fraction of that "tons of stuff" originates from the principal developers of pyTivo should tell you a great deal more. That there is not one single post from a developer of TiVo Desktop should speak volumes.



Proszell said:


> pyTivo seemed really hard to install


1. It isn't. "Trivial" is closer to it.
2. Who cares? Do you suffer from ADHD? Are you so spoiled that only instant gratification can satisfy you? If not, then how much time and effort it takes to install something is not particularly relevant, especially not if the application will get years of continuous use.



Proszell said:


> and use. What am I missing?


The fact that TiVo Desktop sucks. It's badly broken, poorly conceived, and pitifully implemented. Support for it is essentially non-existent. It is not open source, and it will only run on a Windows machine. All in all, it is a horrible application.


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## DTxAg (Jun 25, 2011)

pyTivo is easy to install and free.


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