# TTG - Incorrect Video Lengths after transfer



## sinnfein (Jun 15, 2002)

Hi - I've just started using TTG as my first TiVo is an HD that was recently upgraded to the 9.2 software release. After some initial setup bumps, I've now got both TTG and TCB running well for the most part.

One huge frustration I keep stumbling against - after I download a file to my PC from the TiVo, more often than not the .tivo file shows as having an incorrect length in media player (or zoom player).

For example, a 500 MBish 30 minute program will download completely (file length is correct) but will show as only a 5 minute file in media player. It will continue playing beyond the 5 minute mark, but obviously I lose all media control features (FF, Rew, etc.). These files also tend to hang up when editing using VideoReDo and other tools.

Anyone else seen this or have any suggestion on how I fix this? I am using the 2.5.1 TiVo desktop plus software release.

THANKS


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## ebrdhrst (Sep 22, 2005)

I am having the same issue. After some testing I have found that for some reason the file on my PC is missing pieces of the tv show. I have even tried moving the show from one tivo to another and then moving it to the PC. Same exact piece is missing no matter how many times or which tivo I transfer from. This is very frustrating, someone please help!!


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## phyd (Mar 7, 2002)

I have a similar issue, although I've sound that TTG is truncating files that should be much larger. For example - I have a 7GB 1 hour show in my Series 3 HD that only pulls down the first 350MB (or so) / 5 minutes of the show.

Something pretty weird happening. The exact same thing happens if I grab the show using TiVO Transfer (on the Mac), or manually grabbing the file and downloading it through tht regular "Now Playing" web page served up by the TiVO.

My series 2 SD TiVO seems just fine and healthy, just the HD issues.

--Brian.


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## texasnightowl (Oct 21, 2007)

I've had similar but only with one program so far. Here's the post I made in another thread:

_I'm not sure what the cause was but I had a recent similar problem. 1 hr show opens and plays in Windows Media Player but says it is 1:50 instead of 1:00 long. Tried using VideoReDo (.tivo format)and TMPGEnc DVD Author (.mpeg format) programs and they reported a time of 0:38. At various points the frames were incorrect and the file would stop playing.

I converted the file to mpeg along the way and was able to open it for editing in yet another program. What I found there was that about 21 minutes into the program the time coding started over at 0 again. Not sure why. Maybe the TIVO rebooted but kept recording? Anyway, I was able to use this other program to pull the parts from the show to do stuff I guess we're not supposed to talk about here. So yes, I have recently experienced a problem similar to yours but I'm not smart enough to know what happened._

FWIW, 3 other files have been fine so far. It is just the one that had this problem for now.


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## 747pilot (May 21, 2002)

My problem is similar. Two issues of the same show, Penn and Teller's BS from showtime. Each one shows a length of 8 minutes on the windows media player, but the whole show seems to be there. The slider gets all the way to the right after 8 minutes but the show keeps going. Luckily there are no commercials to slide past, but it is strange behavior none the less. These recordings were made quite a while ago, maybe it has something to do with that?


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## rictus (Dec 29, 2006)

I'm seeing the problem mentioned above on most of my downloaded programs--WMP thinks the play time is shorter than it is, though it keeps playing it. Very annoying.

I'm also getting a completely different problem on one particular file (an HD episode of Planet Earth). On this specific file, TiVo Desktop refuses to download more than 200MB of the file, even though the entire file is there on the TiVo. The same problem occurs when downloading from the TiVo directly via its HTTPS interface. Has anyone else seen this kind of problem?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

rictus said:


> I'm seeing the problem mentioned above on most of my downloaded programs--WMP thinks the play time is shorter than it is, though it keeps playing it. Very annoying.


That is a PC issue. More specifically, it is an issue with the codec / decoder that Windows Media Player is using.



rictus said:


> I'm also getting a completely different problem on one particular file (an HD episode of Planet Earth). On this specific file, TiVo Desktop refuses to download more than 200MB of the file, even though the entire file is there on the TiVo. The same problem occurs when downloading from the TiVo directly via its HTTPS interface. Has anyone else seen this kind of problem?


The TiVo appears to have trouble transferring certain files. It's not clear at this point what causes the problem.

TiVo did improve this to some extent with 9.2. I found that I could transfer a number of recordings with 9.2 that refused to transfer in 9.1.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I have 9.2 on my S3 and just got TiVo desktop. I transferred lots of shows to my PC with no problems. Several episodes of Big Shots, Men in Trees, Ugly Betty, and American Inventor. They all transferred fine, over 100 gb of shows.

Then I tried to transfer several episodes of Big Bang Theory, Moonlight, and Cane. It said it would take 15 hours for all the transfers. I check back a few hours later and its all done. All the files are anywhere from 7MB to 1GB and not complete. I deleted them an tried again and the files are the same exact sizes they where before. I rebooted both the TiVo and the PC but it's still the same for all those series. One episode will only download 7mb and it says its complete. Some a 70 mb one 1.3 gb

Is this a TiVo problem or a TiVo Desktop problem? Is TiVo aware of this and are they working on a fix?

-Joe


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## sinnfein (Jun 15, 2002)

This has gone from bad to worse for me - now I can't transfer anything completely.

All of the files I transfer go without any complaints, but they are always too small. Simple examples:

590 MB south park episode on Tivo -> 501 MB after transfer in TiVo desktop plus 
690 MB Daily Show with John Stewart on TiVo -> 590 MB on PC

Both files will start to play properly but show incorrect show lengths and will not play thru to the end properly. THey show this behavior using both Windows Media Player and in the Zoom player.

The incorrect file sizes are an indication to me that this is not related to any CODECs, but to something between the TiVo and the Desktop transfer software.

This makes TTG useless to me unfortunately.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

sinnfein said:


> This has gone from bad to worse for me - now I can't transfer anything completely.
> 
> All of the files I transfer go without any complaints, but they are always too small. Simple examples:
> 
> ...


The 160Gb drive in the TivoHD does not actually provide 160Gb of capacity. It provides 160,000,000 bytes of capacity. But there are 1024 bytes in a kilobyte, 1024 kilobytes in a megabyte, and 1024 megabytes in a gigabyte. So that 160,000,000 bytes of capacity is actually 152.58 gigabytes (95% of 160Gb).

TiVo does the same thing on the file sizes it reports on the INFO screen. It reports sizes based on multiples of 1000 instead of 1024. Even TiVo Desktop reports sizes incorrectly, because it takes the number of gigabytes (based on 10000) reported by the TiVo and multiples that by 1024 to display megabytes.

In actual practice, files transferred your your PC will only be ~94% of the size reported by the Tivo. If they are significantly less than 94% of the TiVo's reported size, than that could indicate a problem with the transfer.

If the file displays incorrect lengths, that is often a codec issue on your PC, which would affect both WMP and ZP. You might try VLC and see if you have the same problem there; VLC uses its own codecs, rather than your default Windows codec like WMP and ZP.


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## sinnfein (Jun 15, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> If the file displays incorrect lengths, that is often a codec issue on your PC, which would affect both WMP and ZP. You might try VLC and see if you have the same problem there; VLC uses its own codecs, rather than your default Windows codec like WMP and ZP.


Hi - thanks for the feedback. I downloaded VLC to give that a try. It does seem to open up some .tivo files I have downloaded to my PC via the desktop software but they don't play (black screen, no audio). Does VLC support .tivo files?

Also - on my earlier posting re: filesizes - here are a couple of screen grabs as examples - hope these are helpful. I understand your referecnes above to 1024 multiples, etc - but would the desktop software report sizes from the TiVo differently than it reports the same file downloaded? I've attached example screenshots of the same South Park episode "Pink Eye" on the TiVo desktop "transfer" screen, then after the transfer in the TiVo desktop software.

Thanks!


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

To sum up:

Don't worry about an 8 or 9% difference in filesize between TiVo and PC. It is due to slight difference in how each count filesize.

Installing a good codec (see bkdtv) usually fixes these playback/length issues - and many other things.

It is known that a decent percentage of recordings will not transfer properly, stopping part way through, often very early, but there isn't an explanation or work around yet.

============

I've seen that black screen, no audio problem on some .tivos (WMP.) Since you already installed a good codec as per bkdtv, try the solution which works for me, which is to run the .tivo through VideoRedo, saving as an .mpg .


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

I transferred a 62 minute (7.9Gb) file using TD 2.5.1 last night and it's perfect, playing in Media Player Classic. Might you guys w/problems be using wireless???

HDTivo when I saved my .tivo HD file as .mpg out of VRD-TVS, it has wierd stutters on the S3. Can you share with me pls your Stream parameter options???

My own are attached.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Laserfan said:


> I transferred a 62 minute (7.9Gb) file using TD 2.5.1 last night and it's perfect, playing in Media Player Classic. Might you guys w/problems be using wireless???
> 
> HDTivo when I saved my .tivo HD file as .mpg out of VRD-TVS, it has wierd stutters on the S3. Can you share with me pls your Stream parameter options???
> 
> My own are attached.


You may be refering to transcoding to DVD compliant mpg with the new VRD-TVS? I have not used that (yet - I'll buy it just out of gratitude to VR people.  )

Otherwise, all I do in VR is open the .tivo and click save as and save it as a .mpg . If there are some additional settings you'd like me to look up in VR, I'd be happy to tomorrow when I return from out of town. As far as I remember, I am using all the defaults that VR installed with originally.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

HDTiVo said:


> ...all I do in VR is open the .tivo and click save as and save it as a .mpg


That's right, that's all there is to it. But the settings I referred to are under Tools/Options/Stream Parameters and I don't know if I'm at Defaults anymore.

Since you are getting clean mpgs I would appreciate knowing what those settings are. Thanks!


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## ebrdhrst (Sep 22, 2005)

I don't think reading the file size is correct. I transferred "Big Shots" with a length of 60 minutes. The .tivo file was only 37 minutes long. After searching through the file I found that mid way through the show it all of a sudden jumps ahead and skips a big chuck of the show. This started with a few shows here and there but seems to be happening more often now.


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## phyd (Mar 7, 2002)

Anybody else actually having the truncated files problem? Ie. A 7GB file on the Series 3 HD only transfers to couple of hundred meg? Causes TiVo Transfer to bail completely, and just stops short during a regular HTTP get. No problems on my Series 2 SD box.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

phyd said:


> Anybody else actually having the truncated files problem? Ie. A 7GB file on the Series 3 HD only transfers to couple of hundred meg? Causes TiVo Transfer to bail completely, and just stops short during a regular HTTP get. No problems on my Series 2 SD box.


Be sure to post the specifics of the file so Tivo can take down that information, i.e. cable provider, channel number, affiliate name, name of program with date and time, etc.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Laserfan said:


> That's right, that's all there is to it. But the settings I referred to are under Tools/Options/Stream Parameters and I don't know if I'm at Defaults anymore.
> 
> Since you are getting clean mpgs I would appreciate knowing what those settings are. Thanks!


Detect/resync missing frames = Resync - insert xtra video frame

Delta Frames = 3

Max Audio Frame Errors = 32000

Discontinuity Checkpoints = 8

Encoder Quality = High

Unchecked: Ignore transport stream maps ; Output Diagnostic Data

Checked: Convert All I-Frames ; Double Video Buffer; Skip Encoder Conformity

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Output stream parameters:

Unchecked: Start Video Frame; Align Packet Data

Checked: Output PTS, Output PS, Drop frame

Multiplexor audio lag = 20

Output Packet Length: MPEG2 = 2028 - DVD ; MPEG1 = 2324 - VCD Std

---------------------------------------------

My version does not have the MB to Scan or the Set Header options.


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## davidmin (Dec 3, 1999)

My files are getting truncated ever since 9.1. It has happened on both my wireless s2 and wired s3. I am transferring Daily Show and Colbert.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

Thanks for giving your settings HDTivo--I will try them!


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## sinnfein (Jun 15, 2002)

Here's an example of why I think this is not a codec problem but a geniune consistent error where the entire file isn't transfered completely or correctly in addition to the video length shown in media players.

Whenever I try to run ad-detective in video redo, I get the following error part way thru the analysis phase:

MovieWindow Problem: Video Thread: Video Dimensions Changed.

I'm honestly on the verge of submitting for a refund for the desktop plus software - it's almost unusable for me.

Anyone have additional suggestions?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

sinnfein said:


> Whenever I try to run ad-detective in video redo, I get the following error part way thru the analysis phase:
> 
> MovieWindow Problem: Video Thread: Video Dimensions Changed.


This error is caused by commercial insertion equipment.

Some cable providers like Comcast insert commercials that do not use the original resolution of the channel. For example, a cable provider might insert 528x480 or 544x480 commercials into a 704x480 program stream. This currently causes an error in VideoRedo.

I believe the author of VideoRedo said they were working on a fix / workaround for this issue.



sinnfein said:


> Anyone have additional suggestions?


Did you try what I suggested via private message? That would confirm whether it is a problem with the actual recording or a Windows codec issue.


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## sinnfein (Jun 15, 2002)

Outstanding!!! You've displayed a level of patience with me that is more than commendable - THANKS.

With the suggestion you made I have determined that MOST of the files I download via TTG are downloading intact, but are not playing properly due to a codec issue. They will play properly in VLC.

Unforuntaely, whatever my codec problem is, it's preventing me from getting solid runs in VideoReDo and from using anything other than TiVo desktop plus to convert to other formats (Wondershare, etc...). I've just tried to uninstall everything I could find (XVid, et al) and replaced them with the K-Light codec pack - no luck yet unfortunately. I'm off to do lots more searches on codec issues to see if I can come up with other folks who've struggled with this one.

Again, dkdtv - your diligence is MUCH appreciated.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

sinnfein said:


> Whenever I try to run ad-detective in video redo, I get the following error part way thru the analysis phase: MovieWindow Problem: Video Thread: Video Dimensions Changed.


Although I have never had this problem, what you should try is to apply the Quickstream Fix to this file first, and set-up a Filter to limit the QSF to the main program e.g. 1920x1080. Look at VRD's Help file (search on 'filter'):

_If your video file contains video with multiple dimensions, VideoReDo will not be able to edit it. This dialog, which is enabled via QuickStream Fix, will let you limit the QuickStream Fix operation to video frames of a particular dimension. _

Following the QSF operation, you should be able to edit and ad-detect to your heart's content!


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## Razorbak (Aug 21, 2005)

sinnfein said:


> For example, a [XXX] MBish [YY] minute program will download completely (file length is correct) but will show as only a [Z] minute file in media player. It will continue playing beyond the [Z] minute mark, but obviously I lose all media control features (FF, Rew, etc.).





747pilot said:


> My problem is similar... Each one shows a length of [X] minutes on the windows media player, but the whole show seems to be there. The slider gets all the way to the right after [X] minutes but the show keeps going.


sinnfein and 747pilot, I am having the exact same problem as you guys have described with TD 2.5.1. The whole program was transferred successfully and can be watched straight through to the end, but WMP shows the wrong program length, and after the incorrect length, the slider gets all the way to the right and I lose the ability to FF and REW.

FWIW, when I try to open/edit the file using InterVideo's WinDVD 3, the wrong program length appears in the edit windows there, too.

Very frustrating. Glad I didn't spring $ for the TD+ version!

In the meantime, I'm going to follow bkdtv's advice to sinnfein and try VLC Media Player to see if that sheds any light on the situation.


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## sinnfein (Jun 15, 2002)

Hey all - with lots and lots of support from this forum I've finally resolved my issues (at least with a bit of additional testing on files i've got on-hand).

** Sorry this ended up long - skip to the end if you just want to see how if fixed it **

I spent a LOT of time this afternoon following info from other posts in an attempt to figure out what was wrong with my codec installation.

Clearly, my system for whatever reason wasn't agreeing with the "Elecard ImageScaler" Codec that is installed by the TiVo Desktop Plus 2.5.1 software I purchased from TiVo. I have no idea why this is, but this codec as installed on my PC results in incorrect file lengths and an inability to use other video tools to manipulate the files. Reinstalling the TiVo software didn't help.

I spent a ton of time following instructions for re-ordering my codec preferences including merit permissions, disabling that particular codec, etc with no real success. Merit changes would fix playback of .mpg files derived from the .tivo files in WMP but the .tivo files were still broken. disabling the codec entirely prevented playback of .tivo files in WMP.

Finally I gave up trying to futz around with the codec merits and trying to get the cyberlink codec to take priority on .tivo files.

I ended up trying to see if I could get a different version of the Elecard ImageScaler codec on the off chance that a new version worked better. Fortunately, I found a link via google search that gave me a different Elecard codec that did the trick. After installing it, everything plays back correctly with the proper file length and VideoReDo, Wondershare and I are now best buddies again!

Here's the link (not an endorsement, just what worked for me!)

http://www.free-codecs.com/Elecard_MPEG-2_Video_Decoder_Package_download.htm

Again, thanks all for the pointers as I muddled thru this!


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## texasnightowl (Oct 21, 2007)

Laserfan said:


> Although I have never had this problem, what you should try is to apply the Quickstream Fix to this file first, and set-up a Filter to limit the QSF to the main program e.g. 1920x1080. Look at VRD's Help file (search on 'filter'):
> 
> _If your video file contains video with multiple dimensions, VideoReDo will not be able to edit it. This dialog, which is enabled via QuickStream Fix, will let you limit the QuickStream Fix operation to video frames of a particular dimension. _
> 
> Following the QSF operation, you should be able to edit and ad-detect to your heart's content!


Thanks for mentioning the filtering with QSF. I was able to use this (480x480) and QSF actually finished this time instead of giving an error! Previously, my 1 hr program would open in VRD but say it was only 38 minutes and it would quit playing around the 21 min. mark. After using the filter option with QSF, the output was the appropriate 59+ minutes!

The only problem is that whatever option I used made the audio end up ahead of the video. I'm poking around at other VRD options but if there any suggestions on what to do next, please share! But at least the video plays and has the appropriate length!


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

texasnightowl said:


> ...whatever option I used made the audio end up ahead of the video.


Sorry man, I have never gotten an out-of-sync result w/VRD+ so have no idea what might be wrong--it's unlikely that an option setting would cause this I think. Did you get lots of errors out of the QSF process?

If it's a very important recording take it to the VRD forum and they will help!

Correction: There IS an "Adjust Audio" dialog in Tools but I believe it resets after every output, so unless you messed with it, it should not have created your out-of-sync condition. It might be used BTW to FIX your sync problem, assuming that problem is consistent from beginning to end. Though (of course) if the out-of-sync problem can be narrowed to a segment of the video, you could chop it up and re-join it after fixing the oos portion. (whew!)


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## texasnightowl (Oct 21, 2007)

Laserfan said:


> Sorry man, I have never gotten an out-of-sync result w/VRD+ so have no idea what might be wrong--it's unlikely that an option setting would cause this I think. Did you get lots of errors out of the QSF process?
> 
> If it's a very important recording take it to the VRD forum and they will help!
> 
> Correction: There IS an "Adjust Audio" dialog in Tools but I believe it resets after every output, so unless you messed with it, it should not have created your out-of-sync condition. It might be used BTW to FIX your sync problem, assuming that problem is consistent from beginning to end. Though (of course) if the out-of-sync problem can be narrowed to a segment of the video, you could chop it up and re-join it after fixing the oos portion. (whew!)


Yeah, might have to chop it up. The audio is OK at the beginning but becomes OOS later. When trying to run QSF before without the filter it would error out with an audio ring buffer overflow. It's not important and I already was able to use another tool which would play it all the way through to chop it up but just trying to figure out an easier way/what was going on with it. I'll experiment some more with VRD+. Thanks.


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

Has anyone else tried sinnfein's solution with success?


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

Being impatient as I am, I just went ahead and tried the Elecard codec as linked here by sinnfein. Happy to report that this fixed the incorrect show length issue for me as well.

Now I just need to know if I installed any spyware/adware or other potentially dangerous software with it!


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## sinnfein (Jun 15, 2002)

insomniac99 said:


> Being impatient as I am, I just went ahead and tried the Elecard codec as linked here by sinnfein. Happy to report that this fixed the incorrect show length issue for me as well.
> 
> Now I just need to know if I installed any spyware/adware or other potentially dangerous software with it!


Hey insomniac99 - i was a bit worried about that too, but was desperate enough (actually frustrated enough) that I just went ahead and did it. I'll just report that after a day of a ton of videoredos and red kawas of lots and lots of shows off my Tivo, i haven't seen any issues.

I'll definitely post here if I see anything.


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

sinnfein said:


> Hey insomniac99 - i was a bit worried about that too, but was desperate enough (actually frustrated enough) that I just went ahead and did it. I'll just report that after a day of a ton of videoredos and red kawas of lots and lots of shows off my Tivo, i haven't seen any issues.
> 
> I'll definitely post here if I see anything.


sinnfein, I was the same way. It's always a bad idea to install and ask questions later. But I was frustrated enough to just give it a shot. I'll also report any unusual behavior here as well.

Thanks for the link, by the way.

EDIT: For anyone that can benefit from this information, I had the cole2k codec beforehand that was seemingly causing the problem.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I've used a variety of codecs on two different PCs both on a wired ethernet network and still have the problem.

While it could be a codec problem, it would just demonstrate that the .TiVo mpg stream is overly sensitive to codecs being used and is incompatible with many of them.

Another possibility is that filters installed with TiVo desktop software are incorrectly configuring filters for playback of .TiVo files in applications like WMP.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

sinnfein said:


> Hey all - with lots and lots of support from this forum I've finally resolved my issues (at least with a bit of additional testing on files i've got on-hand).
> 
> Here's the link (not an endorsement, just what worked for me!)
> 
> http://www.free-codecs.com/Elecard_MPEG-2_Video_Decoder_Package_download.htm


Thanks for your report.

Do you know whether this is freeware or some sort of trial that will expire? I installed the codec and ran the bundled "Registrator" program and it lists "Evaluation" for the decoder.

_Update: According to this link, it is a 21-day trial. If you want to use it after that, you have to pay $25 to register._


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> Thanks for your report.
> 
> Do you know whether this is freeware or some sort of trial that will expire? I installed the codec and ran the bundled "Registrator" program and it lists "Evaluation" for the decoder.
> 
> _Update: According to this link, it is a 21-day trial. If you want to use it after that, you have to pay $25 to register._


It would be helpful if we could get a list of codecs that are verified to work with .TiVo recordings as well as what media player, OS, etc, are configured for playback.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

phyd said:


> Anybody else actually having the truncated files problem? Ie. A 7GB file on the Series 3 HD only transfers to couple of hundred meg? Causes TiVo Transfer to bail completely, and just stops short during a regular HTTP get. No problems on my Series 2 SD box.


I got bit by this the other day.

I was transferring the recordings I made from OTA HD of the local CW feed (Channel 5-1 for those in LA) with TTG and both transfers were physically truncated.

Star Trek - Remastered was reported at just a little over 6 GB by TiVo Desktop and Smallville was at 7 GB.

TTG stopped transferring Star Trek at 3 GB and the file plays for about 30 minutes.
Smallville stopped at *1 MB* and only plays a second or two.
Same results if I try to transfer via web interface.

I have transferred one other HD show recorded off of Time-Warner QAM without issue.

Now my OTA situation is not the best right now so I wonder if it's a signal strength issue affecting the recordings which is causing some recording corruption that TTG can't handle. 
I'm currently getting a signal strength of 60-62 on the OTA CW HD feed while I get a signal strength of 100 on the TW QAM HD feeds.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

This is a different problem. In my case (and others cases apparently) the file transfers in its entirety but fails to show the correct length during playback and cannot be played back in some applications such as VideoReDo.


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## rictus (Dec 29, 2006)

The Elecard codec fixed my problem with incorrect lengths in Windows Media Player. (Other codecs I tried, like Cyberlink, didn't.)

I'm still having the other problem, though--a 7GB file of which only 200MB transfers through TiVo Desktop or via the web interface. This is still happening on 9.2J.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Hey all, the Elecard codec also fixed my problem with incorrect playback times shown in WMP, but GAWD, what horrible pix quality! Ugly and jittery on many movies. Even the ones that don't show the jitter in the actual display still show it on the little Elecard icon in the upper right corner. The ffdshow codec works much better for me EXCEPT for the problem with wrong playback times. 

Can't live with either of these issues, but until I get it figured out, the wrong playback times problem is no where near as bad as the terrible pix quality of the Elecard.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Yes, I've observed the same thing, Elecard "fixes" the issue with wrong playback times listed... it appears that there is an issue with MainConcept Demuxer that is configured for all MPG demuxing after installation of Tivo Desktop. It doesn't appear that MainConcept is replaced when installing other codecs/packages either... which explains why installation of many other codec packs doesn't fix the problem.

I've observed that the MainConcept Demuxer in conjunction with EVERY codec other than the Elecard codec results in the incorrect playback times.

Also, in GraphEdit, I can put a different Demuxer in the playback configuration, such as the default Microsoft DeMuxer, and it completely resolves the playback problem, even if I continue to point the stream to the MainConcept MPEG2 video decoder afterwards.

Unfortunately I haven't found a way to get rid of MainConcept Demuxer. Deleting/Removing it renders playback broken (other demuxers won't take over) and likewise lowering its MERIT value doesn't appear to have any impact on it always being chosen for MPG demuxing. It's like Tivo hard codes something in the registry OTHER than Merit value that is forcing a selection of the MainConcept demuxer on all MPG playback.

Most annoying and shame on you TiVo.

More info about this in the other thread I started on the issue;

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5676149#post5676149


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

I've not followed this whole thread, but the Elecard MPEG2 codec was, when I had an old MX400 video card, the only decoder that would render HD perfectly for me, so I dunno why V7Goose had quality probs???

Regarding the subject of "incorrect length" this explanation from eugene at Elecard may be of interest; it helped me when I suffered that problem with some .ts files--maybe can apply to the MainConcept?

_It seems it's neressary to write a few words about "duration problem"... 
The Elecard Demultiplexer filter (part of the Player) is responsible for seeking and calculation of the clip duration.

The Demuptiplexer can utilize two algorithms to find duration. 
1. Using PTS. 
Each MPEG-2 file should have Presentational Time Stamps (PTSs) and the Demultiplexer uses these PTS to calculate the file duration. Unfortunately, some files, which were improperly encoded or merged from different files into a big one, have gaps in PTS (or haven't PTS at all!). Therefore it's impossible to use this method for such files. 
2. Using bitrate. 
This is very inaccurate method. I think you know that sometimes bitrate is defined roughly and approximately; so real and announced (written at sequence header) bitrate are very different.

And now about the issue. 
When the Player opens a file, the Demuxer analyses this file. It compares PTSs values, frame rate, file size and bitrate. If the Demuxer finds that everything is OK it'll use PTS method for seeking. Otherwise, it has to use bitrate to calculate the duration. But! As I mentioned above, often wrong bitrate value is written in the file header. In general, if you capture a stream recorders keep old bitrate value in the file header and therefore Player shows wrong duration.

How to fix the issue? The best way is to write proper value in the file header but unfortunately sometimes its impossible. Often its helpful to switch the Demultiplexer into Simple mode. Open your file using the Player and click <CTRL>+<F>; youll see the Current Graph window. You should click right on the Demultiplexer image -> property -> Settings; click twice on Init mode -> check Simple; click Apply -> OK._

BTW VideoReDo can change the header bitrate...maybe also fix PTS?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Laserfan said:


> I've not followed this whole thread, but the Elecard MPEG2 codec was, when I had an old MX400 video card, the only decoder that would render HD perfectly for me, so I dunno why V7Goose had quality probs???
> 
> Regarding the subject of "incorrect length" this explanation from eugene at Elecard may be of interest; it helped me when I suffered that problem with some .ts files--maybe can apply to the MainConcept?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately there is no Init Mode setting for the MainConcept demuxer that I can find in any of the filter managers that I've used.

I'm also having the same video quality playback problems with Elecard mentioned earlier. While it fixes the "playback time" bug that causes so many problems, the playback itself occassionally freezes up, jerks forward or parts of the picture will turn a different color, sort of a shimmering effect.

I suspect it's an interaction problem between MainConcept demuxer and the Elecard MPEG2 video decoder... unfortunately when you install Elecard's codecs it does not de-prioritize or remove MainConcept from being the MPEG demuxer.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

jmpage2 said:


> Unfortunately there is no Init Mode setting for the MainConcept demuxer that I can find


I just opened my Elecard Filter Configurator and although I have Tivo Desktop on this PC it doesn't seem to find any Elecard or ManConcept filters. 

Elecard/MainConcept must be licensing this stuff to Tivo, maybe you can find some help at their forum www.elecard.ru/forum/


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Laserfan said:


> I just opened my Elecard Filter Configurator and although I have Tivo Desktop on this PC it doesn't seem to find any Elecard or ManConcept filters.
> 
> Elecard/MainConcept must be licensing this stuff to Tivo, maybe you can find some help at their forum www.elecard.ru/forum/


I've got a ticket in to Tivo second level technical support. I will be calling them Friday or Monday regarding this. I feel that the problem is definitely isolated and they should be able to reproduce it at will and hopefully get a fix out soon.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Laserfan said:


> I've not followed this whole thread, but the Elecard MPEG2 codec was, when I had an old MX400 video card, the only decoder that would render HD perfectly for me, so I dunno why V7Goose had quality probs???


I certainly cannot explain why, and I definitely do not have the technical knowledge of this that you do, but there is no doubt about the horrible PQ caused by this Elecard codec. I have removed it twice to compare with ffdshow, and the difference is striking. And this is not even with HD movies - 5 of the six movies I transfered were just recorded from a digital SD channel.

It shows up in multiple ways: Some movies seem to play good, but the fine detail just is not there (seems just faintly blurry and washed out). These same movies look absolutely sharp with ffdshow. I have only tested with about 6 movies, and the three that show this symptom are all B/W. Several other movies show very noticeable wavy borders on the top and bottom edge of the letter box. In addition, the actual picture detail stinks - not missing or blurry like I described above, but more like a DVD burned at 6 or 8 hour speed - edges and fast movement granulated and broken. Finally, one movie combines the poor PQ and wavy letter box edges with lots of waviness in the picture content. The waviness will periodically stop for a couple of seconds, but then starts right back up. It seems like it stops when the camera stops moving, and it seems to always start up as soon as the camera pans or zooms. Not sure that it is really that consistent 'cause I won't leave the codec on long enough to find out!

Oh, here is another oddity germane to this thread - after removing the Elecard codec, the ffdshow codec started showing the CORRECT movie length in WMP! But alas, all is not fixed; even though it shows the correct movie length, you cannot jump or FF beyond the exact point where the old "wrong time" was displayed. If you click the slider bar beyond that point, it only shows a still picture, even though the time counter continues to run. Jumping back to any point before the old "wrong time" mark causes it to play normally, and continue playing past that mark just as it originally did.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I have found a workaround to the problem. Use at your own risk. Many thanks to moyekj who came up with the idea.



moyekj said:


> OK gotcha. If you are feeling adventurous perhaps "fooling" the system to use wrong file may work. i.e. something like:
> - rename the Mainconcept demuxer file
> - Copy the MS demuxer file to where the Mainconcept one was (with Mainconcept name)
> Totally agree though these kind of hacs should not be necessary and it would be nice to figure out exactly what TD install did. Note that there needs to be a Tivo filter to decrypt the .TiVo file somewhere in the flow and I don't see that captured in graphedit.


As hard as it is to believe, this actually works. I copied the MS demuxer (c:\windows\system32\mpg2splt.ax)

into the

c:\program files\tivo\desktop\plus\mcmpgdmx.ax

Folder.

I renamed the original MainConcept filter (test.ax) and then renamed the MS one in the Tivo folder to have the name that the MainConcept filter has.

With this workaround tivo files or their associated mpg decoded streams play with no problems that I can see. Quality is good, no shimmering, jerking or lip sync problems.

Success!!!   

Thanks for the idea, hope someone else gets help from this too.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

jmpage2 said:


> I renamed the original MainConcept filter (test.ax) and then renamed the MS one in the Tivo folder to have the name that the MainConcept filter has. Success!!!


Congratulations!!! I just love it when people figure this stuff out...


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Coming in late, but I just wanted to chime in that I have run into these symptoms as well. 

Using TD2.2, VRD+, and WMP11.
I have several videos with problems, this is just one example.

Episode of Family Guy on Tivo shows .6Gig and on TD shows 605Mb.
On Tivo, program length shows 30m.
When opened in WMP11, it has a program length of ~20m.
When opened in VRD+, it has a program length of ~10m.

In VRD+, using the slider bar to scan through the video, a big chunk is "skipped" over, but if I let it just play, it plays the "skipped" part. The kicker is that if I pause while VRD+ is displaying this "skipped" part, the filmstrip underneath shows a completely different part of the video.


I don't see how this could be a codec issue. I've had zero (for the most part) problems for over a year, and have not modified my system.

I've got a question about this in over at the VRD forums, but in the meantime, I've rebooted everything and I am re-transferring to see what happens.


ETA: Update -- A fix that worked for me using VRD+.

Goto Tools --> hold shift and click Options.
That should put you in the manual parameter settings.
Find the lines that say "number of frames in the video buffer" and "number of frames in the audio buffer", and then increase the number shown (i.e. 500 instead of 128, or whatever).
Click okay and then run the video through Quickstream Fix without making any edits.

The resulting file can then be edited as normal.
Hope this helps.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

steve614 said:


> Coming in late, but I just wanted to chime in that I have run into these symptoms as well.
> 
> Using TD2.2, VRD+, and WMP11.
> I have several videos with problems, this is just one example.
> ...


The issue is with a directshow filter that does the mpeg demuxer (stream splitting). If you look at my previous post I provide a workaround fix for the problem.

Re-transferring won't help. If you'd like to prove to yourself that the issue is the demuxer, download graphedit, and drag one of the affected shows into the graphedit window. Delete the MainConcept demuxer and do a "graph-->view-->insert filter" action and then insert the "MPEG 2 DEMUXER" from microsoft. Reconnect the output stream from the movie to the new demuxer and then from that to your output codecs. You can then "play" the movie inside of graphedit.

This should prove to you what the problem really is.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> The issue is with a directshow filter that does the mpeg demuxer (stream splitting). If you look at my previous post I provide a workaround fix for the problem.
> 
> Re-transferring won't help. If you'd like to prove to yourself that the issue is the demuxer, download graphedit, and drag one of the affected shows into the graphedit window. Delete the MainConcept demuxer and do a "graph-->view-->insert filter" action and then insert the "MPEG 2 DEMUXER" from microsoft. Reconnect the output stream from the movie to the new demuxer and then from that to your output codecs. You can then "play" the movie inside of graphedit.


That's too much work... 

I found another workaround that I just posted above...



steve614 said:


> ETA: Update -- A fix that worked for me using VRD+.
> 
> Goto Tools --> hold shift and click Options.
> That should put you in the manual parameter settings.
> ...


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

steve614 said:


> That's too much work...
> 
> I found another workaround that I just posted above...


Do you have to do that for each file? Sounds like even more work. Once you do the directshow filter move and rename it automatically works for any move you play with no other work.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

Actually jmpage2's solution is the easier one if indeed it solves Your problem too, Steve.

This does beg the question though--if fixing these problems is as simple as using the built-in MS Demultiplexer, why the heck is Tivo bothering to use a 3rd party demuxer like MainConcept?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> Do you have to do that for each file? Sounds like even more work. Once you do the directshow filter move and rename it automatically works for any move you play with no other work.


You only have to reset the parameters once, but any video with a problem has to be rendered through Quickstream Fix first.
It may be more work in the long run, and I'd rather do that as opposed to changing things deeper in the computer.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

steve614 said:


> You only have to reset the parameters once, but any video with a problem has to be rendered through Quickstream Fix first.
> It may be more work in the long run, and I'd rather do that as opposed to changing things deeper in the computer.


Well, the solution I have doesn't require re-rendering anything. And all we're talking about is backing up one file (changing the filename) and copying in another one and naming it to the same original name as the 1st one.

In any event, glad you found something that worked for you.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

steve614 said:


> You only have to reset the parameters once, but any video with a problem has to be rendered through Quickstream Fix first.
> It may be more work in the long run, and I'd rather do that as opposed to changing things deeper in the computer.


If you always have to QSF anyway and your VRD settings work than you're golden. But all jmpage2 did to fix his problem was move & rename a file. The Graphedit thing was just to "prove it to yourself".

Edit: oops there's jm himself posting first...


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Laserfan said:


> If you always have to QSF anyway and your VRD settings work than you're golden. But all jmpage2 did to fix his problem was move & rename a file. The Graphedit thing was just to "prove it to yourself".
> 
> Edit: oops there's jm himself posting first...


Ya, the thing with graphedit is just to prove on your own machine that the proposed file rename fix will work.

Graphedit will allow you to do a playback with whatever connections you want to test with, so that you will know ahead of time that it fixes the problem.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

jmpage2 said:


> I have found a workaround to the problem. Use at your own risk. Many thanks to moyekj who came up with the idea.
> 
> As hard as it is to believe, this actually works. I copied the MS demuxer (c:\windows\system32\mpg2splt.ax)
> 
> ...


Update;

This appeared to work for a while, but it's now broken again. I suspect that after the next reboot something in windows realized that the filters weren't set up the way the registry/merit values were telling them to be set up and unfortunately things are a bit hosed now (which is exactly what I was worried would happen).

Even after uninstallation of Tivo Desktop my MPG2 playback seems to be goofed up, as it is trying to use a filter without success to do the playback.

Getting to my wits end on this whole issue. Everything with playback, etc, worked absolutely *FINE* on my Vista machine until I started trying to get the TiVo stuff to work.

The MainConcept/EleCard combo that Tivo forces on you with installation of their software is *JUNK*.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Sorry to hear that. 

But that right there is the sole reason I do not like to make hacks inside of software on my computer.


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## jimpmc (Oct 31, 2001)

Any update on this? I'm encountering similar issues with files on the PC. 

From reading the thread, it seems like the choices are:

- Buy and use VRD+, use the settings above, and run through a quickstream fix

- Try using other players like VLC, but at the expense of video quality (I tried this and the quality was significantly more choppy than what WMP was showing)

- Try fooling the system, but this may mess things up after a reboot.

Any other possibilities? I want the same playback quality as in WMP but just a slider that works.

-J


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Unfortunately it appears that Tivo is taking their time fixing this.

I did not have much success reconfiguring playback to force the use of other stream splitters and demuxers with Tivo Desktop installed. Not only does Tivo Desktop change the filters, etc, for playback of .Tivo files, it changes them for .mpeg, quicktime, .avi, etc. 

Really unbelievable!!

At this point I have removed Tivo Desktop from my system and done some major work to get mpeg playback working properly again due to my earlier fooling around.

If I really want to watch something from the Tivo then I log into it through my web browser, download the show and convert it to standard empeg for playback in media player.


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## DN325Ci (May 23, 2007)

Was this issue fixed with the new 9.3x software release?

Don


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

No.


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

Reviving an old thread, has there been any progress on this front?

And does anyone know of a playback codec resistant to this problem?

There seems to be no rhyme or reason to which shows display the incorrect time length and which ones are perfectly fine.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

insomniac99 said:


> Reviving an old thread, has there been any progress on this front?
> 
> And does anyone know of a playback codec resistant to this problem?
> 
> There seems to be no rhyme or reason to which shows display the incorrect time length and which ones are perfectly fine.


I gave up and simply use KMTTG which is a script that downloads your shows and decodes them. Some recent enhancements make it really useful as a Tivo Desktop replacement.

Used in conjunction with PyTivo application it basically does everything that Tivo Desktop does except, hey!! it actually works! I really regret throwing good money after bad registering Tivo Desktop.


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

jmpage2 said:


> I gave up and simply use KMTTG which is a script that downloads your shows and decodes them. Some recent enhancements make it really useful as a Tivo Desktop replacement.
> 
> Used in conjunction with PyTivo application it basically does everything that Tivo Desktop does except, hey!! it actually works! I really regret throwing good money after bad registering Tivo Desktop.


Thanks for the tip. Are there any downsides to KMTTG you've noticed or experienced in comparison to Tivo Desktop?

Also, what is PyTivo?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

insomniac99 said:


> Thanks for the tip. Are there any downsides to KMTTG you've noticed or experienced in comparison to Tivo Desktop?
> 
> Also, what is PyTivo?


No, not really. I actually run the KMTTG/PyTivo combination on a Windows Home Server box. It automatically downloads my chosen programs and I can manually download them and/or encode them to different formats for my needs (iPod, PS3, etc). It also lets you use Comskip or Comcut to mark or delete commercials for those programs that it works well with.

PyTivo then shares this stuff out to the Tivo(s) on the network so you can transfer shows back, etc.

It might take an hour or so to get it all running and working, but it's at least as good as Tivo Desktop, probably better.


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

jmpage2 said:


> No, not really. I actually run the KMTTG/PyTivo combination on a Windows Home Server box. It automatically downloads my chosen programs and I can manually download them and/or encode them to different formats for my needs (iPod, PS3, etc). It also lets you use Comskip or Comcut to mark or delete commercials for those programs that it works well with.
> 
> PyTivo then shares this stuff out to the Tivo(s) on the network so you can transfer shows back, etc.
> 
> It might take an hour or so to get it all running and working, but it's at least as good as Tivo Desktop, probably better.


Hmm interesting. I just picked up an HP Mediasmart EX475 which runs Windows Home Server. In this setup, do the transfers go directly from the Tivo and the WHS box (and vice versa) or does it have to run through a client PC as well?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

No, you can do it all with WHS. Just set it up per the Windows Setup Instructions. You can then have the WHS box save the recordings on a UNC share name that is accessible to the world.

I do use a more powerful box than the EX475 for WHS but I doubt that the EX475 would have much trouble running it. You just tell KMTTG how long to sleep between jobs to go out and fetch your programs, or you can fetch them manually.

I would refer you to the KMTTG thread for further info and questions on KMTTG and PyTivo.


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

jmpage2 said:


> No, you can do it all with WHS. Just set it up per the Windows Setup Instructions. You can then have the WHS box save the recordings on a UNC share name that is accessible to the world.
> 
> I do use a more powerful box than the EX475 for WHS but I doubt that the EX475 would have much trouble running it. You just tell KMTTG how long to sleep between jobs to go out and fetch your programs, or you can fetch them manually.
> 
> I would refer you to the KMTTG thread for further info and questions on KMTTG and PyTivo.


Thanks a lot. I'll definitely be heading over to that thread. This sounds like it will actually be a better solution for me than a properly working Tivo Desktop application. One of my concerns was having to keep the three components in the process (Tivo, WHS, PC) all on wired ethernet since wireless was just too slow for these types of transfers. Now I can remove the PC from the equation and be free to go wirelessly with that and have only the Tivo and WHS wired to my router. Excellent.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

insomniac99 said:


> Thanks a lot. I'll definitely be heading over to that thread. This sounds like it will actually be a better solution for me than a properly working Tivo Desktop application. One of my concerns was having to keep the three components in the process (Tivo, WHS, PC) all on wired ethernet since wireless was just too slow for these types of transfers. Now I can remove the PC from the equation and be free to go wirelessly with that and have only the Tivo and WHS wired to my router. Excellent.


Yes, with WHS I think you will be much happier with this solution. One gotcha with WHS is that after KMTTG installation (when you run/config it the first time) it will create a service to run, you want to go in and change the permissions to have KMTTG service run with your administrator credentials instead of as a system account.

The nice thing about the KMTTG solution is that you can shut your desktop off, saving power, and just have the WHS box downloading your stuff as well as serving media. You don't need any special stuff run from the desktop so it's perfectly happy running even when noone is logged in to the remote desktop of WHS.

If you have setup issues ask them in the KMTTG thread and I'll try to answer them there.


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

So can I assume at this point that the incorrect video lengths are a result of the Tivo Desktop software and not a video playback codec issue? I.e. if I use KMTTG to re-transfer those videos that previously had incorrect video lengths, the problem will be solved?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

All I know is that when Tivo Desktop software was installed on my PC it caused all sorts of codec problems including the incorrect video length.

When you use kmttg to download and decode your videos it uses the industry standard FFMPEG decoder to do it. I haven't had any issues playing back those videos on two different PCs but there ARE possible problems related to certain decoding things such as lip sync, etc, that might be beyond the control of KMTG to handle as it relies on the free FFMPEG decoder.


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## insomniac99 (Jul 24, 2007)

Thanks for all your help!


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