# 20.3.8 is still broken



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

Problem: Roamio is not recording scheduled programs

I got the update to the new firmware 20.3.8 but it has not fixed the problem that I have been experiencing. The unit failed to record the Cowboy's game today and it is in the failed state now. 

Can someone please list a set of instructions to capture troubleshooting information to help Tivo understand the issue.

I posted a pic showing the tuner is in the failed state. The channel that was selected (609 FOX) shows as recording but no tuners are set to the channel. It looks like tuner 2 was expected to capture the recording but it is in a failed state (see pic).


----------



## jimmypowder (Oct 24, 2013)

Wow


----------



## NJguy (Sep 11, 2013)

fletchoman said:


> Problem: Roamio is not recording scheduled programs
> 
> I got the update to the new firmware 20.3.8 but it has not fixed the problem that I have been experiencing. The unit failed to record the Cowboy's game today and it is in the failed state now.
> 
> ...


Interesting. That is crazy. It's recording the Cowboys game fine for me right now. I'm at a loss for you too. Don't know why that would be happening.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

fletchoman said:


> Problem: Roamio is not recording scheduled programs
> 
> I got the update to the new firmware 20.3.8 but it has not fixed the problem that I have been experiencing. The unit failed to record the Cowboy's game today and it is in the failed state now.
> 
> ...


Bad cable card ??


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

lessd said:


> Bad cable card ??


I am on my second cable card. I was able to select 6 channels to record simultaneously as a test, but this failure is typically happening when I only have 1 scheduled event.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

fletchoman said:


> I am on my second cable card. I was able to select 6 channels to record simultaneously as a test, but this failure is typically happening when I only have 1 scheduled event.


Problem with the Roamio itself ?? as you are the first person to report such a problem, I have two Roamio +s running without problems and most people on this Thread have well working Roamio(s), when the TiVo servers are working.


----------



## HiRoller (Jan 10, 2004)

I thought my device was going to do the same thing, but was pleasantly surprised.

I set up both the 1:00 and 4:00 games to record on Fox (513 Verizon Fios) via a wishlist for NFL Football. I have all games padded an hour and a half. In the past, the second game would start recording at 4:00, using a second tuner and overlapping the first game which is still recording.

Today, at around 4:30, I noticed the second game was not recording, and I couldn't force it to. But, when the padding ended around 5:30, the first recording closed, and the second started, showing it to have an hour and a half already recorded. It seems that the unit has gained enough intelligence to avoid tying up two tuners to record the same thing!

Could this be happening in the OP case?


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

HiRoller said:


> I thought my device was going to do the same thing, but was pleasantly surprised.
> 
> I set up both the 1:00 and 4:00 games to record on Fox (513 Verizon Fios) via a wishlist for NFL Football. I have all games padded an hour and a half. In the past, the second game would start recording at 4:00, using a second tuner and overlapping the first game which is still recording.
> 
> ...


Not with the picture the OP posted, that was ugly.


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

lessd said:


> Not with the picture the OP posted, that was ugly.


Here is another one: tuner 5 is also OTL


----------



## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

I'd be interested to know your CableCard brand and firmware version. The Cisco firmware 1.5.2.2801 or 1.5.3.0601 can do 6 tuners at some times but present problems at other times.


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

tatergator1 said:


> I'd be interested to know your CableCard brand and firmware version. The Cisco firmware 1.5.2.2801 or 1.5.3.0601 can do 6 tuners at some times but present problems at other times.


I'm using the Cisco cable card...1.5.2_F.p.3001.

A channel test brought the system back to life and now all the tuners are working.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

That is some ugly ****** on those pics


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm getting the same thing on my diag screens, since the update rolled, but had not before the update.

Whatever TiVo did to workaround the problem, took me from not having SDV problems, to lots of these problems. Sometimes it's not even a SDV channel, but I think another tuner being on a SDV channel is what causes the non-SDV channel to give DVR Diags these types of statuses.

Three affected Roamios, and one Premiere I haven't shipped away yet. All getting borked by this update.


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

I just got off of the phone with a very capable Tivo support person (Christopher). We found that the signal strength was too strong (100%, 41db) on all tuners. I placed a 10db attenuator inline to get (86%, 34db). I will report back if this change solves my issue.


----------



## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

You are probably experiencing the cablecard problem with six tuners activated. The one you are using has problems. Read the thread on Tuners 5 and 6 not working. You need to revert to 5 or 4 tuners.


----------



## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

TA problem?


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

andyw715 said:


> TA problem?


In my case no. Going from six TAs in use, to three, lets me swap them around, same with cablecards. I haven't returned any yet, just in case the ones I picked (I go for the highest serial numbers/most recent manufacture date) seem to be failing or have some issue that can be resolved by changing them.

It's a PITA, swapping them around, though. Cox pairs the TA to a specific cablecard, so lots of reading letters and numbers over VoIP telephone, and hoping they can hear me clearly, as well as the other way around.


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

HazelW said:


> You are probably experiencing the cablecard problem with six tuners activated. The one you are using has problems. Read the thread on Tuners 5 and 6 not working. You need to revert to 5 or 4 tuners.


The pics showing tuner five is the one that I disabled, because I thought the same thing. Unfortunately it has made no difference on my issue. My failure has typically happened when I only had one scheduled recording...


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

fletchoman said:


> I just got off of the phone with a very capable Tivo support person (Christopher). We found that the signal strength was too strong (100%, 41db) on all tuners. I placed a 10db attenuator inline to get (86%, 34db). I will report back if this change solves my issue.


I'm having that problem whenever I have back to back programs on the same channel. I don't have that problem on my Premiere XL, just my Roamio Pro. I just ordered some attenuators, but I'm having my doubts. I have 39 db on tuner 0, and 41 db on tuners 1 through 5 on the Roamio Pro. I have 37 db on both tuners of the Premiere XL. One would think I would see the same problem on my Premiere XL, but its operation has been flawless.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

The dB #s in Roamio must be calculated differently or there is an internal booster as part of the Roamio since they have always been higher than series 4 units connected to same coax. In my case all 6 tuners are in the low 40s for dB and signal strength is 100% on all tuners. That is a red flag according to TiVo support but I have not had any signal trouble or missed recordings and in fact the Roamio Pro has been the best behaving TiVo in that regard for me so far.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

moyekj said:


> The dB #s in Roamio must be calculated differently or there is an internal booster as part of the Roamio since they have always been higher than series 4 units connected to same coax. In my case all 6 tuners are in the low 40s for dB and signal strength is 100% on all tuners. That is a red flag according to TiVo support but I have not had any signal trouble or missed recordings and in fact the Roamio Pro has been the best behaving TiVo in that regard for me so far.


The only problem is your 100% signal power may be 101% no problem, or 190% that could be a problem, TiVo should re-do that signal meter like the old VU meters, say low if less than 40% OK from 40% to 60% and good from 60% to 80% than too high above 80%.


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

lessd said:


> The only problem is your 100% signal power may be 101% no problem, or 190% that could be a problem, TiVo should re-do that signal meter like the old VU meters, say low if less than 40% OK from 40% to 60% and good from 60% to 80% than too high above 80%.


I can understand (while I used to not understand) why TiVo goes with their 0-100 scale, instead of dBmV readings like MSO STBs (excluding MSOs that use TiVo).

What stands out is that the standardized dBmV readings on even ancient STBs would change color (Green/White=good, Grey/White=acceptable, Yellow=borderline, Red=not acceptable).

If TiVo did this, or extended the scale to be 0-200, or presented a scale bar with a pointer indicating where you are on that scale, or presented both scale and dBmV readings, it would make EVERYBODY'S life easier.

Think of how many support calls could be eliminated for TiVo, MSOs, and end-users alike.

IMHO, other than keeping a consistent (consistently poor implementation, which TiVo excels at) end-user experience, it just makes no sense for them to keep using a method that creates so many issues, resulting in so many headaches, all around.

The dBmV reading would tell anybody involved the exact level of attenuation required, rather than guessing, and spending more time/money buying more attenuators, because the ones used still don't get it right, having to use trial and error to get the right one. With any device that uses a true dBmV value, I have never had to get and install an attenuator more than once.

Unless they like headaches, and are in bed with the attenuator market, it makes no sense.

Also, there's another factor involved. Cox, in my market, does not allow their installers/techs to use attenuators. All attenuation must be achieved with splitters, and if that means using a six-way, and capping off the unused ports with terminators, that is how they do it.

I even have to do it this way. If I call them out for an issue, or for signal level/quality testing that my equipment can't do, and they spot any attenuators, they will remove them, and install splitters and terminate any extra ports that may be left. They will try to take away my attenuators, unless I protest that that are owned by me. They are instructed to eliminate attenuators and take them with them when they leave.

I'd also like to see TiVo redo how they calculate SNR. They obviously don't use the same method as what is the standard. It's way past time for them to calculate it the same way MSO equipment does. In a true SNR reading, there is no such thing as too high a SNR. My best guess as to why TiVo keeps it as they do, is to compensate for their 0-100 scale, and use the SNR as a means to identify a "hot" (excessive) signal. This is just leads to more headaches and confusion/frustration for all. Again, poor implementation of things, leading to headaches, all around.


----------



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

nooneuknow said:


> I can understand (while I used to not understand) why TiVo goes with their 0-100 scale, instead of dBmV readings like MSO STBs (excluding MSOs that use TiVo).
> 
> What stands out is that the standardized dBmV readings on even ancient STBs would change color (Green/White=good, Grey/White=acceptable, Yellow=borderline, Red=not acceptable).
> 
> ...


Agree 100% the current diagnostics #s are all but worthless. I have dB #s in the 40s and signal strength 100% for all tuners and things are working fine. Others with issues have posted similar #s from diagnostics. i.e. The way it is now you cannot know for sure from the #s if you have a signal problem or not.
If for some reason TiVo doesn't want to share the true meaningful #s then at least they should have a means to obtain the measurements from your TiVo remotely so that they can tell you if there really is a problem or not. Right now as soon as a CSR hears you have db #s in the 40s they give you the standard crap that your signal is too "hot" whether or not that really is the case.
I think suggesting to TiVoMargret that current Diagnostics #s be updated to be more meaningful may be worth pursuing.


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

moyekj said:


> Agree 100% the current diagnostics #s are all but worthless. I have dB #s in the 40s and signal strength 100% for all tuners and things are working fine. Others with issues have posted similar #s from diagnostics. i.e. The way it is now you cannot know for sure from the #s if you have a signal problem or not.
> If for some reason TiVo doesn't want to share the true meaningful #s then at least they should have a means to obtain the measurements from your TiVo remotely so that they can tell you if there really is a problem or not. Right now as soon as a CSR hears you have db #s in the 40s they give you the standard crap that your signal is too "hot" whether or not that really is the case.
> I think suggesting to TiVoMargret that current Diagnostics #s be updated to be more meaningful may be worth pursuing.


I agree 100% with that, as well. Although, this whole topic really belongs in the threads with titles like "Tivo is blaming V53 error on SNR ratio?", and other similar threads.

By all means, pursue away. I can't see any reason for anybody to *not* want TiVo to get with the program, and use standardized measurements, readings, and calculations.

I'm sick of explaining to Cox why a SNR greater than 36 is too high. I'm sick of being told what I already know about true SNR.

If they want to display it their own proprietary way, they should at least give a separate measurement by the standards, or give an option like "press enter to view advanced signal diagnostics", like how they added "Press enter for advanced options" at the beginning of Guided Setup, which adds the hidden menu item of "Installer Express Setup".

If they could add that (which didn't exist in early software versions), there's no reason they couldn't put all the technical data (the "good stuff") related to signal & SNR in standardized format, where those who know what dBmV & true SNR values mean, can get to it, and those who don't know what it all means can never have to see it, unless prompted to provide those readings, or a cable tech is there and needs those values, without TiVo's stupid secret representations that defy logic.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

nooneuknow said:


> ........, without TiVo's stupid secret representations that defy logic.


Well there's the problem, you used TiVo and logic in the same sentence!


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

It is definitely not the attenuator...system failed to record this evening again.

Tivo is sending another unit to replace this one, I will let everybody know how the second one works.

Note: you will see a scheduled recording missing; when you open history it will show a status of "no signal".


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

fletchoman said:


> It is definitely not the attenuator...system failed to record this evening again.
> 
> Tivo is sending another unit to replace this one, I will let everybody know how the second one works.
> 
> Note: you will see a scheduled recording missing; when you open history it will show a status of "no signal".


In order to see them you need to select the view mode with the Red "C" button to "show(all)".

If you don't, it's not a "conflict", so the default view doesn't display them.

On top of that, if you don't open the additional info, it's not clear *why* it didn't record, just that it didn't.

EDIT/ADD: I really wish TiVo would add a viewing mode just for "missed recordings" that have nothing to do with the guide data, conflicts, or your recording parameters (new only, new & repeats, record everything), etc.

It's a major PITA sifting through "show(all)" mode, adding insult to injury, and could really incite a psychotic break for those who have a view other than "It's only TV, big deal".


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

One small twist...

Tivo now wants me to send the unit to them before they send me a replacement. Wow, what was terrific customer support has now been erased by stupidity.

A very nice tech support person (Conner) is now supposed to call me back tomorrow to let me know if they can send a replacement first...after checking with a supervisor.

don't they know I have been using Tivo for years...with 2 lifetime subscriptions???


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

nooneuknow said:


> In order to see them you need to select the view mode with the Red "C" button to "show(all)".
> 
> If you don't, it's not a "conflict", so the default view doesn't display them
> .


Once again my failure was with one scheduled recording...


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

So you're CALLING TIVO and/or REPORTING THIS ON THEIR FORUMS, right?

Otherwise, you are effectively talking to a wall. Tivo does not follow these forums! To get ACTUAL HELP from someone who can help, you need to contact them.


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

mattack said:


> So you're CALLING TIVO and/or REPORTING THIS ON THEIR FORUMS, right?
> 
> Otherwise, you are effectively talking to a wall. Tivo does not follow these forums! To get ACTUAL HELP from someone who can help, you need to contact them.


I'm doing both... And I am logging my issues here in this forum so others can see the solution I have achieved.


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

fletchoman said:


> I'm doing both... And I am logging my issues here in this forum so others can see the solution I have achieved.


OK... The incompetence at TiVo has been staggering and frustrating.

I was promised a call back from Connor to confirm that they would ship me a new TiVo to replace the one that defective, unfortunately I never got a call back.

When I called TiVo again I was charged full price for a new system in order to get it shipped out before sending back the defective unit.

Today I called because they had disconnected the service from my current Roamio, I was told this is standard practice and I would have to pay 12.99 to get a one-month extension extension on my current unit.

Wow... They knew I was continuing to use my old unit ...and they knew my new one would not arrive for sometime... But they seem to only know one procedure.

I was finally able to get a supervisor to fix things by returning my previous license back to my old unit... But now when I get my new Roamio, I won't be able to transfer between the two because TiVo doesn't have a way to have two active lifetime subscriptions on two different units... They want me to actually pay for a month subscription...

I must be the first and only one to ever have a problem with my TIVO...;-).


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

fletchoman said:


> ....don't they know I have been using Tivo for years...with _*2 lifetime subscriptions*_???


Why should they care about you? You're not adding anything to their monthly bottom line with lifetime subs...


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

So the second Roamio has now failed in the same exact way that the first one did... More details later


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

I have now tried two different Cisco cable cards, two different TiVo Roamios.

Today I missed the college football game that was supposed to record, again with only one scheduled recording. Tuner two was the failed tuner again...

I called TiVo and went through all of the diagnostic information, they said I was experiencing the problem with too many tuners... Then they recommended that I use a Motorola cable card

I called Comcast to ask but they indicated that I was not eligible to use a Motorola cable card.

I can't believe that nobody else is having this problem...


----------



## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

fletchoman said:


> I have now tried two different Cisco cable cards, two different TiVo Roamios.
> 
> Today I missed the college football game that was supposed to record, again with only one scheduled recording. Tuner two was the failed tuner again...
> 
> ...


A lot of us are. See the thread on tuners 5 and 6 not working.


----------



## jntc (Dec 5, 2013)

fletchoman said:


> I have now tried two different Cisco cable cards, two different TiVo Roamios.
> 
> Today I missed the college football game that was supposed to record, again with only one scheduled recording. Tuner two was the failed tuner again...
> 
> ...


Are you able to see what tuner is failing? If so, how? And how did they go through the diags? When I've called them, they simply shrug me off with "This is a known issue with Comcast not supporting six tuners - you need to get an updated firmware from them" - Comcast (at least in my area) does not arbitrarily 'give' you an updated firmware. It's a system wide push done when all of their testing is done and they are ready to push it out. Comcast tells me they can't push out to a single user.


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

jntc said:


> Are you able to see what tuner is failing? If so, how? And how did they go through the diags? When I've called them, they simply shrug me off with "This is a known issue with Comcast not supporting six tuners - you need to get an updated firmware from them" - Comcast (at least in my area) does not arbitrarily 'give' you an updated firmware. It's a system wide push done when all of their testing is done and they are ready to push it out. Comcast tells me they can't push out to a single user.


Look under DVR diagnostics for the details of each tuner; Look back at my first post to see the pictures of each screen...the pictures form yesterday are too blurry to post unfortunately.

NOTE: I am able to start 6 simultaneous recordings manually...so I don't believe this issue is related to the unauthorized tuner issue.


----------



## jntc (Dec 5, 2013)

fletchoman said:


> Look under DVR diagnostics for the details of each tuner; Look back at my first post to see the pictures of each screen...the pictures form yesterday are too blurry to post unfortunately.
> 
> NOTE: I am able to start 6 simultaneous recordings manually...so I don't believe this issue is related to the unauthorized tuner issue.


Okay, that's what I did as well. I am also able to set 6 simultaneous recordings with no issues. But am still plagued with the v58 screen of 'angry family'!


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

mattack said:


> So you're CALLING TIVO and/or REPORTING THIS ON THEIR FORUMS, right?
> 
> Otherwise, you are effectively talking to a wall. Tivo does not follow these forums! To get ACTUAL HELP from someone who can help, you need to contact them.


I have called and reported the problem to TIVO, I also called Comcast and reported the problem to them. Comcast blamed TiVo for the problem, and TiVo blamed Comcast...

The TiVo technical support person recommended that I turn off two of the tuners... When I told them that I can record six channels at the same time manually, they didn't know what to say...


----------



## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

> Why should they care about you? You're not adding anything to their monthly bottom line with lifetime subs...


I don't really think a level 1 support person making $8 hour is thinking that. If anything they are thinking what did I do in previous lifetime that I now have to take support calls on product where asking the customer to uninstall program, reboot, and reinstall does not work.


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

Yesterday I missed a recording that was 2nd in a series of three season passes on the same channel. No other recordings were scheduled. I'm really finding it difficult to understand how I am the only one seeing this problem???


----------



## dtivouser (Feb 10, 2004)

I don't think you are the only one. There are entire threads on that behavior.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

And both my son and I remember recording Bonnie and Clyde on History a few weeks back and they mysteriously aren't there anymore. Everyone swears they didn't delete them and its not even close to being full so it wouldn't auto delete to make room either. 

Could this be the same bug?


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

HarperVision said:


> And both my son and I remember recording Bonnie and Clyde on History a few weeks back and they mysteriously aren't there anymore. Everyone swears they didn't delete them and its not even close to being full so it wouldn't auto delete to make room either.
> 
> Could this be the same bug?


In my case no, you can discover this problem if you look at your history and find that a recording did not occur because of a loss of signal.

If you were lucky enough to catch the event in progress, then you'll see one of the tuners, typically 2, will be unavailable.


----------



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Ok thanks. The mystery continues!


----------



## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

fletchoman said:


> I have called and reported the problem to TIVO, I also called Comcast and reported the problem to them. Comcast blamed TiVo for the problem, and TiVo blamed Comcast...
> 
> The TiVo technical support person recommended that I turn off two of the tuners... When I told them that I can record six channels at the same time manually, they didn't know what to say...


This is normal behavior when you have an older firmware on a Cisco/Scientific Atlanta cablecard.

It will sometimes record 6 things simultaneously without any problem, but sometimes the cablecard will fail to authorize a tuner.

Try setting your TiVo to use only 5 tuners and then force a reboot. I bet it fixes the problem. (With some firmware versions you may have to go down to 4, but 5 works on most versions.)

The ONLY way to successfully use all six tuners on a consistent basis is to have the latest firmware from Cisco. And yes, it is very frustrating that most cable companies are not rolling it out yet. (I have Charter, which is still using firmware from 2009!)


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

tim1724 said:


> This is normal behavior when you have an older firmware on a Cisco/Scientific Atlanta cablecard.
> 
> It will sometimes record 6 things simultaneously without any problem, but sometimes the cablecard will fail to authorize a tuner.
> 
> ...


Sorry, been there done that. If you look at my original post you'll see that tuner five was turned off when my failures occurred. Originally I thought maybe that was the issue that I was seeing but now I think it's something different.


----------



## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

fletchoman said:


> I am on my second cable card.


Unfortunately, after reading that other thread, if your cable company isn't pushing new firmware to the cards a new card with the same old, buggy firmware isn't going to help you


----------



## fletchoman (Dec 15, 2013)

I am now convinced that there is more than one problem. I have tested with six tuners enabled and five tuners enabled and now with four tuners enabled. All have failed in various ways. With four tuners enabled I got a new error message... Channel unavailable. I also saw a repeat of the no signal error. I have had TiVo suggestions on and off in all configurations, all experienced failures.

My failure today showed two tuners in the bad state... Again with only one scheduled recording.


----------

