# Introducing TiVO Edge



## CloudAtlas

*TiVO EDGE Antenna* (*OTA) 4 tuner 2TB HDD $349.99*
Annual service $69.95 ($6.95/mo) or All-In service $249.99

*TiVO EDGE Cable* *6 tuner 2TB HDD* *$399.99*
Annual service $149.95 ($14.95/mo) or All-In service $549.99

EDGE uses a Broadcom BCM7278 with 4 cores running @1.8Ghz
EDGE uses a blower over the old fans in previous models. The inlet is below the unit, and the exhaust vents are on the lower right side below the ledge. Air flow is dramatically improved vs. BOLT. Should be much quieter.@TiVo_Ted
EDGE has more RAM (4GB vs 3GB on BOLT), USB 3.0, Dolby Vision. Also, we will be able to support Dolby AC4 audio natively, where on BOLT we would have to do this decode on the CPU.  @TiVo_Ted
*It's made for cable subscribers and cord cutters alike.*
Both the cable and the antenna model boast easy one-screen navigation between apps and all major streaming services, live and online TV, and recordings. They both have superior Dolby audio and visual quality, along with all the fan favorites like Auto Skip/SkipMode, OnePass, and universal search.

For cable TV enthusiasts, *TiVo EDGE for cable* provides a service unlike others and allows for a seamless cable experience on top of all of that. It *includes a 2 TB hard drive (up to 300 HD hours) along with 6 tuners*.Introducing TiVo EDGE - TiVo Blog

*For cord cutters, TiVo EDGE *helps you find and record hundreds of free over-the-air HD shows that you can get with an antenna. Then you can skip eligible ads or set your TiVo EDGE to skip commercials automatically. *It has a 2 TB hard drive (up to 300 HD hours) and 4 tuners.* Think of all the money you'll save having access to ad-skippable content from all of the major networks, every month. Make sure to pick up a good HD antenna (we recommend something like this).


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## sd2528

It's definately a big market (those who have both cable and streaming). I'm interested depending on the price and subscription fees.


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## Lenonn

Interested, but ore-roll ads are a no for me. And while I skipped the Bolt generation, the number of problems with that gen that I see here (overheating and hard drive failures), I’ll wait and see reviews.

I have a starting to fail Series 3 that is due for replacement.


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## wmcbrine

CloudAtlas said:


> Then you can skip *eligible* ads


Hmm.


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## seaninde

Their website has 4 tuners listed for the cable model when you click the Buy Now button., even though blog says its 6 and other places on website. So they have already messed up their advertising. Looks like no one proof read the website or they eliminated 2 tuners.
Its 399.00. I ordered one because I was waiting to get rid of my last Comcast Motorola Box and its starting to have issues its so old. But they made me buy a monthly plan when I ordered this even though I have one with my Bolt. So do you have to pay a monthly plan for each main Tivo DVR? Are they not all on same account, one plan?


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## wmcbrine

seaninde said:


> So do you have to pay a monthly plan for each main Tivo DVR?


Yes.



> _Are they not all on same account, one plan?_


Same account, individual plans.


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## dave13077

If they have shut off the pre-roll ads on your current bolt do we think this will flow over to the Edge? Some are saying it is set at the account level so hopefully that is the case. I will wait and see before I buy. I want to replace a Romiao pro.


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## mattyro7878

So..the Edge is out there..ready for purchase...we just don't know the tuner count in the cable side at this point?


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## cwoody222

Cable model is $950, after lifetime.

Yea, I think I’ll just hang on to my Roamio Plus.


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## seaninde

mattyro7878 said:


> So..the Edge is out there..ready for purchase...we just don't know the tuner count in the cable side at this point?


The edge is available only on Tivo's website at this point, but yes I just bought one.
I think the tuner number is just a website mistake. Otherwise why would it be 50.00 more than the OTA model. So when I get it Friday I expect 6 tuners. We will see.


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## seaninde

cwoody222 said:


> Cable model is $950, after lifetime.
> 
> Yea, I think I'll just hang on to my Roamio Plus.


I would never do lifetime, tech changes way too fast to keep a dvr that long and who knows, Tivo could go under in a few years. Its too much money in my opinion.


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## mattyro7878

I think you can count on 6 tuners on a cablecard box. DolbyVision and DolbyAtmos as well. Cool.


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## Adam C.

seaninde said:


> I would never do lifetime, tech changes way too fast to keep a dvr that long


Like what? I have had my Roamio OTA for almost 3 years and I see no need to replace it. Here we are 3 years later, the Edge is now available and I see no technological advances that would entice me to upgrade.


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## cwoody222

seaninde said:


> I would never do lifetime, tech changes way too fast to keep a dvr that long and who knows, Tivo could go under in a few years. Its too much money in my opinion.


I do it for the resale value. Monthly payments are just throwing money away.

But looking on eBay I won't coup more than around half of the price of a lifetime Edge by selling my Roamio.


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## tiv0 newbie

Is this device TE4 only or can TE3 be used as the operating system?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lucidrenegade

tiv0 newbie said:


> Is this device TE4 only or can TE3 be used as the operating system?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Confirmed by Ted to be TE4 only.


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## lucidrenegade

So they added Dolby Vision and Atmos, but stuck with the crap application platform. No thanks.


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## OrangeCrush

CloudAtlas said:


> *TiVO EDGE Antenna* (*OTA) 4 tuner 2TB HDD $349.99*
> Annual service $69.95 ($6.95/mo) or All-In service $249.99
> 
> *TiVO EDGE Cable* *6 tuner 2TB HDD* *$399.99*
> Annual service $149.95 ($14.95/mo) or All-In service $549.99


I had a faint hope that the new ad injection schemes would lead to more reasonable device and service pricing, but doesn't look like that's happening. So we've got:

High device & service fee pricing
New ads appearing before recordings and probably more to come in various places in the UI
*STILL* no Roku, FireTV, AppleTV, etc. support
Standard TiVo OS and extremely limited app platform (No Youtube TV, Philo, PS Vue, etc.)
No ATSC 3 support for OTA
No on-demand support for most cable systems
Hard pass.


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## snerd

seaninde said:


> So they have already messed up their advertising.


This is something of a TiVo tradition.


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## cwoody222

OrangeCrush said:


> I had a faint hope that the new ad injection schemes would lead to more reasonable device and service pricing, but doesn't look like that's happening. So we've got:
> 
> High device & service fee pricing
> New ads appearing before recordings and probably more to come in various places in the UI
> *STILL* no Roku, FireTV, AppleTV, etc. support
> Standard TiVo OS and extremely limited app platform (No Youtube TV, Philo, PS Vue, etc.)
> No ATSC 3 support for OTA
> No on-demand support for most cable systems
> Hard pass.


Personally I think they scrapped the Roku, Fire and AppleTV apps and will just sell their own stick next year.

They first announced them in Jan and their new CEO started in May. He could have changed course.


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## HenryPolk87

mattyro7878 said:


> So..the Edge is out there..ready for purchase...we just don't know the tuner count in the cable side at this point?


It's 6 tuners. It's on the retail box


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## Radiolarian

I just ordered the cable model of the Edge by phone. They said I was the first order. It is supposed to start shipping between October 7th and October 10th.


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## scottfll954

I dont get it .. from an EX tivo user ..but still interested

Why would you spend 15.00 a month for service when comcast is 10.00 (I have comcast)

Why would you deal with a cable card mess

Why would you deal with wires ...now that comcast is wireless ..

Plus many more small things

I dont see the benefit of the EDGE


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## schatham

scottfll954 said:


> I dont get it .. from an EX tivo user ..but still interested
> 
> Why would you spend 15.00 a month for service when comcast is 10.00 (I have comcast)
> 
> Why would you deal with a cable card mess
> 
> Why would you deal with wires ...now that comcast is wireless ..
> 
> Plus many more small things
> 
> I dont see the benefit of the EDGE


Mini's, Skip mode, non cloud HD, my channels etc.


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## JLV03

Looks like the Edge OTA does not have MoCa, at least per the specs on its landing page: TiVo EDGE for Antenna | Antenna DVR and Streaming | OTA Recording


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## Adam C.

scottfll954 said:


> I dont get it .. from an EX tivo user ..but still interested
> 
> Why would you spend 15.00 a month for service when comcast is 10.00 (I have comcast)
> 
> Why would you deal with a cable card mess
> 
> Why would you deal with wires ...now that comcast is wireless ..
> 
> Plus many more small things
> 
> I dont see the benefit of the EDGE


I guess it depends on the situation. Verizon now charges something like $25/month for their DVR, and each additional adapter (the equivalent of a Mini) is at least $10-12/month.

But i agree with your point. The Edge does not seem to offer any technological advancement over previous Tivos to make the upgrade worthwhile for most users.


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## snerd

TiVo.com no longer lists a Bolt cable version, but still has Bolt OTA. Roamio OTA also gone.

The "Streaming Features" for the Edge for cable says "Cast shows from your mobile device to TV". I wonder just what that means.

Physical dimensions might be different for the two boxes:

Edge OTA: 11.4 x 7.3 x 1.8
Edge cable: 10.625 x 8.0 x 1.5

However, the Edge OTA dimensions are suspiciously the same as the Bolt, so I suspect somebody goofed after copying the Bolt OTA specs and updating them for the Edge OTA.


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## snerd

The official Edge announcement has been out for a few hours now. How come there is no "TiVo Edge" page on TCF?


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## Pokemon_Dad

Looks slick, but this seems like too little too late. Also, after my bad experiences with Bolt hardware quality, I would prefer to wait for reports from Edge owners. We're counting on you, @Radiolarian!


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## ADG

schatham said:


> Mini's, Skip mode, non cloud HD, my channels etc.


ALSO - the interface is outstanding (at least the original interface  ). AND - of most importance to me, I use a Roamio Pro as my primary box and feed it to every other tv in the house so we can move from room to room during playback without missing anything. Most newer equipment (including the Bolt) does not offer component & composite output connections, which I need to "broadcast" the signal.


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## Mikeguy

OrangeCrush said:


> I had a faint hope that the new ad injection schemes would lead to more reasonable device and service pricing, but doesn't look like that's happening. So we've got:
> 
> High device & service fee pricing


At least for the OTA, I thought that the pricing was what one could expect and, in fact, I was happy to see that the "special" pricing of the OTA All-In subscription has not been increased. Yes, the box is $100 more than the Bolt OTA, but it's also 2TB storage capacity as compared to the Bolt's 1TB.

Having said that, it's still $600 between the box and All-In . . . price creep from the days of the Roamio OTA. Promotions and Black Friday sales are good things.


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## BigJimOutlaw

As previously thought, does almost nothing new over the Bolt and wants $950 for it. Yep I'll get right on that.

Least possible effort. Same dead app platform.

How do the thermals work? The images seem to lack any ventilation unless it's hidden on the bottom with only millimeters of space afforded by the feet.

Budget OTA users can standby for a future 2-tuner 500GB model if they so desire. No idea when, but it passed through the FCC.


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## Pokemon_Dad

ADG said:


> ALSO - the interface is outstanding (at least the original interface  ). AND - of most importance to me, I use a Roamio Pro as my primary box and feed it to every other tv in the house so we can move from room to room during playback without missing anything. Most newer equipment (including the Bolt) does not offer component & composite output connections, which I need to "broadcast" the signal.


Interesting use case! I'm sure TiVo would rather you bought a bunch of Minis though.


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## Pokemon_Dad

Mikeguy said:


> At least for the OTA, I thought that the pricing was what one could expect and, in fact, I was happy to see that the "special" pricing of the OTA All-In subscription has not been increased. Yes, the box is $100 more, but it's also 2TB storage capacity as compared to the Bolt's 1TB.
> 
> Having said that, it's still $600 between the box and All-In . . . price creep from the days of the Roamio OTA. Promotions and Black Friday sales are good things.


I'm disappointed with the capacity. The Roamio Pro had 3TB five years ago. The Bolt line was disappointing so I bought one from WeaKnees to get 2TB. We've never used all that space, but even with so much of our watching going to streaming now, we'd still prefer at least 3TB here to avoid pressure to delete things before we're ready.


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## lucidrenegade

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I'm disappointed with the capacity. The Roamio Pro had 3TB five years ago. The Bolt line was disappointing so I bought one from WeaKnees to get 2TB. We've never used all that space, but even with so much of our watching going to streaming now, we'd still prefer at least 3TB here to avoid pressure to delete things before we're ready.


It was a stupid move to switch to 2.5" HDDs. WD Purple 3.5" drives are up to 12TB now.


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## lucidrenegade

scottfll954 said:


> I dont get it .. from an EX tivo user ..but still interested
> 
> Why would you spend 15.00 a month for service when comcast is 10.00 (I have comcast)
> 
> Why would you deal with a cable card mess
> 
> Why would you deal with wires ...now that comcast is wireless ..
> 
> Plus many more small things
> 
> I dont see the benefit of the EDGE


Not every cable company has a DVR as advanced as Comcast.  A lot of them are still using the old Motorola ones with 500GB hard drives and 2 tuners.


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## Pokemon_Dad

lucidrenegade said:


> It was a stupid move to switch to 2.5" HDDs. WD Purple 3.5" drives are up to 12TB now.


True. At this point there are plenty of reasonably-priced 2.5" 3TB drives out there though. It's not like I'm asking for the mythical TiVo Mega. They're just trying to pinch pennies, probably justified by well-crafted wishful projections of future streaming vs. recording.

And speaking of streaming, we're back to the too little too late issue. I've already moved all our streaming off TiVo and onto Fire and Android sticks/boxes/TVs.


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## Mikeguy

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I'm disappointed with the capacity. The Roamio Pro had 3TB five years ago. The Bolt line was disappointing so I bought one from WeaKnees to get 2TB. We've never used all that space, but even with so much of our watching going to streaming now, we'd still prefer at least 3TB here to avoid pressure to delete things before we're ready.


My guess is that the 2TB capacity is at least partly the result of the use of the 2.5" hard drive. Also, I recall TiVo_Ted having stated here previously that the 3TB Bolt boxes were being outsold by the 1TB version--but part of that likely was due to the cost factor.


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## krkaufman

JLV03 said:


> Looks like the Edge OTA does not have MoCa, at least per the specs on its landing page: TiVo EDGE for Antenna | Antenna DVR and Streaming | OTA Recording


Correct, same as the previous Roamio and BOLT OTA-only models.


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## KevTech

lucidrenegade said:


> It was a stupid move to switch to 2.5" HDDs. WD Purple 3.5" drives are up to 12TB now.


Part of the reason has to be for heat control.
Almost all 3.5 drives now are 7200 RPM or higher while most 2.5 are 5400 RPM and product less heat.
Not sure I will get Edge since my TV apps already have Dolby Vision.
Only reason I may consider Edge is for the extra 2 tuners since the Bolt only has 4.


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## Pokemon_Dad

I'm lovin' my Roamio more every day.


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## BigJimOutlaw

It might be anecdotal, but it seems like there was an uptick in failing Bolt drives being reported here on the boards (over previous generations), and it may be due to them not being AV rated. Right now, AV/Video rated 2.5" drives are limited to 2 TB and that seems to be the driver for this choice. Ted made comments about this in the past.

Or they could've gone back to 3.5" and nobody would have cared about the extra inch added to the case... but that's Tivo.


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## slice1900

I'd never consider this because of TE4, but what is the reason why ANYONE would want this? How is it better than the Bolt? I imagine it has a more recent CPU so it is faster, but the Bolt isn't exactly slow. Other than that it seems to have the exact same feature set as the Bolt. Why did they bother with the new model? Wouldn't it make sense for them to keeping selling Bolts there was a real reason to rev to a new model - like adding ATSC 3.0?


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## Mikeguy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> It might be anecdotal, but it seems like there was an uptick in failing Bolt drives being reported here on the boards (over previous generations), and it may be due to the fact that none of them were AV rated. AV/Video rated 2.5" drives are limited to 2 TB at this point, and that seems to be the driver for this choice. Ted made comments about this in the past.
> 
> *Or they could've gone back to 3.5" and nobody would have been angry about the extra quarter inch added to the case size... but that's Tivo.*


^ This. Although, it's not just TiVo--how many smartphones sacrifice a headphone jack for the sake of thinness, when the phone already is incredibly thin? Let alone, phones and other portable devices sacrificing the ability to replace a battery, again for extra thinness? Of course, even more the case when we're talking about a stationary electronic device.


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## trip1eX

Yeah just too much money. Although ...to be fair, from past experience the price falls pretty rapidly. Within a year I wouldn't doubt if you see deals for $600-$700 with lifetime. 

Still at this point ...I would get a new 65" or 55" tv and a pretty good one for $999 or so instead of dropping $950 on this. And the tv would be my streaming box as a lot of these tvs are quite good at streaming now.


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## quackman

Until it provides the same streaming apps I'm getting on my Apple TV (YouTube TV, etc.), it's a no-go for me.


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## Mikeguy

slice1900 said:


> I'd never consider this because of TE4, but what is the reason why ANYONE would want this? How is it better than the Bolt? I imagine it has a more recent CPU so it is faster, but the Bolt isn't exactly slow. Other than that it seems to have the exact same feature set as the Bolt. Why did they bother with the new model? Wouldn't it make sense for them to keeping selling Bolts there was a real reason to rev to a new model - like adding ATSC 3.0?


I guess, the benefits are the faster processor, the Dolby Vision, and Atmos sound. But would I upgrade a Bolt box for that?

Part of the circumstances perhaps also being, just having something new and shiny and exciting, for the market and to create buzz, and to avoid an appearance of falling behind. Personally, I'd like to see some of the what seem to me like useful other advances. E.g. a wireless TiVo Mini system, announced 9 months ago and still being awaited (due out by right around now, if not earlier?). Along with, Roku/Fire TV/Apple TV TiVo apps.


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## mrsean

Wow. If I had to write an announcement of Edge it would be titled "TiVo Doubles Down on Disappointment". 

First, the lackluster, failure-prone Bolt and now a small refinement of it, Edge. Low capacity hard drives, poor steaming options along with being overpriced is so WTF. Why did TiVo start at the bottom of our wishlists i.e. Dolbyvision and Atmos? Those are nice to have but they don't rank within the top 5 of requested features going back a decade.

TiVo needs to find away to make everyone want to upgrade from their lifetimes Roamios and Edge (so far) is not the answer. My Roamios Pro had been rocking a 6TB hard drive for 5 years now. Why would I pay another $1K for less?


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## bobfrank

slice1900 said:


> *I'd never consider this because of TE4,* but what is the reason why ANYONE would want this? How is it better than the Bolt? I imagine it has a more recent CPU so it is faster, but the Bolt isn't exactly slow. Other than that it seems to have the exact same feature set as the Bolt. Why did they bother with the new model? Wouldn't it make sense for them to keeping selling Bolts there was a real reason to rev to a new model - like adding ATSC 3.0?


That's why I'll probably never buy another Tivo. I'll make my Roameo and Bolt last as long as possible. If I have to use the same UI as the cable company DVR, I might as well save the extra money.


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## jakep_82

For anyone with a Roamio or Bolt that wants Atmos and Vision, why wouldn't you just get a $50 Fire TV Stick 4K? As a side benefit you also get significantly more and better apps. Spending $950 for those 2 minor features while being stuck with Tivo's terrible app ecosystem seems insane to me.


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## trip1eX

2 of these decent/good bang for the buck 55" tvs at list price would cost you $999 and they have Roku built in.

Edge at $950 tough sell.


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## Pokemon_Dad

jakep_82 said:


> For anyone with a Roamio or Bolt that wants Atmos and Vision, why wouldn't you just get a $50 Fire TV Stick 4K? As a side benefit you also get significantly more and better apps. Spending $950 for those 2 minor features while being stuck with Tivo's terrible app ecosystem seems insane to me.


Done. We don't even need our Bolt anymore here. Roamio Pro and a Fire TV Stick 4K, that's the ticket.


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## Donbadabon

I wonder if the user-agreement for the new Edge says the user agrees to the pre-rolled ads?

They are willing to remove the ads for us right now on the other platforms, but if it was part of the original agreement there would be no reason or obligation for TiVo to turn them off.


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## ADG

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Interesting use case! I'm sure TiVo would rather you bought a bunch of Minis though.


I actually have 4 tivo boxes and two mini's (plus two inactive S3's  ). That doesn't replace simultaneous playback of a show over a bunch of tv's so no matter which room you walk into, there is no lag or jump in time.


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## BigJimOutlaw

For Bolt owners the modest CPU bump, Atmos and DV support are barely worth $95, much less another $950.

Roamio and older customers, I kinda get it IF their cable operator is starting to provide 4K content over QAM they care about watching. If not, they (and OTA users) should just get a $50 stick for *FAR* superior 4k/app support.

Otherwise, Edge is added to the "Why do I exist?" pile with the 2-tuner Premiere and caffeine-free Mountain Dew.


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## scoobydooby

Any idea if we'll see loyalty pricing for existing customers? I recall seeing that a few years back. Of course, they released this just as I got my bolt back from the seemingly all too common HDD failure 

While it looks decent, I don't see enough that makes me want to pull out my credit card...


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## Joe3

cwoody222 said:


> Personally I think they scrapped the Roku, Fire and AppleTV apps and will just sell their own stick next year.
> 
> They first announced them in Jan and their new CEO started in May. He could have changed course.


From what I am seeing from them, I wonder if they'll be around next year.


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## Pokemon_Dad

Interesting, the cable Bolts are gone from the TiVo website. Only the Bolt OTA is still there, probably while supplies last. It's 1TB and $250, vs. the 2TB $350 Edge for antenna. The Edge for cable has 2TB and is $400.

Just looking. I'm actually likely to sell off our Bolt and downsize to just the Roamio Pro and v2 Minis here, and as mentioned above we rely on the Fire TV Stick 4K for streaming now. There are no 4K cable channels here.

I'm also planning an HD HomeRun and Channels DVR system in a parallel test setup as we plan for the future while Rovi continues to run TiVo into the ground. But there's a TiVo Alternatives thread for that discussion.


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## exdishguy

slice1900 said:


> I'd never consider this because of TE4, but what is the reason why ANYONE would want this? How is it better than the Bolt? I imagine it has a more recent CPU so it is faster, but the Bolt isn't exactly slow. Other than that it seems to have the exact same feature set as the Bolt. Why did they bother with the new model? Wouldn't it make sense for them to keeping selling Bolts there was a real reason to rev to a new model - like adding ATSC 3.0?


The industrial design of Bolt is an epic fail. I'm going out on a limb and guessing that return/exchange rates and the number of trouble tickets for the Bolt are way above and beyond any reasonable benchmark for consumer electronics. So I'm fine with a new box that seems to at least have a sturdier chassis. However, the requirement to be on TE4 and no way to backrev is a deal-breaker to me. I've been suckered for thousands as it is and putting aside the pre-roll fiasco, the longevity of this company is in serious serious question. Heck, even if I could roll back, why would I spend $1k large on a box from a company that is openly trying to sell themselves off? What protections would any consumer have that spent $1k should they not be acquired and went abnkrupt (read: none) or if the acquiring company was in a completely different industry/space and decided to mothball development and keep the box around as long as they have to without being sued? There are very few positive "probable" outcomes and next to zero ROI if I buy this thing.


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## OrangeCrush

BigJimOutlaw said:


> How do the thermals work? The images seem to lack any ventilation unless it's hidden on the bottom with only millimeters of space afforded by the feet.
> ...
> Or they could've gone back to 3.5" and nobody would have cared about the extra inch added to the case... but that's Tivo.


The odd PS4-esque shape misled me into thinking it was about the size of a PS4 from the earlier photos, but it's smaller than I imagined. Smaller than a flattened-out bolt even. I really don't get why they're stubbornly sticking to smaller cases than they need and hamstringing themselves with 2.5" drives as a result.



jakep_82 said:


> For anyone with a Roamio or Bolt that wants Atmos and Vision, why wouldn't you just get a $50 Fire TV Stick 4K? As a side benefit you also get significantly more and better apps. Spending $950 for those 2 minor features while being stuck with Tivo's terrible app ecosystem seems insane to me.


And those Fire Stick 4Ks have been going on sale for $25-$35 pretty regularly since Prime Day. They are excellent endpoints for a Channels DVR.


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## gary.buhrmaster

Pokemon_Dad said:


> True. At this point there are plenty of reasonably-priced 2.5" 3TB drives out there though.


None are in new production(*). 2TB is the current max for 2.5" constant use A/V drives. And that is due to the reality that the majority of the buyers of those types of drives are surveillance systems where 2TB is considered the sweet spot for capacity and thermals and pricing, so that is what the HD manufacturers design/build.

(*) And TiVo is going to want to choose drives they can get new/replacement ones of. That is perhaps why the 3TB Bolt left the building earlier than others.


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## Pokemon_Dad

gary.buhrmaster said:


> None are in new production. 2TB is the current max for 2.5" constant use A/V drives. And that is due to the reality that the majority of the buyers of those types of drives are surveillance systems where 2TB is considered the sweet spot for capacity and thermals and pricing, so that is what the HD manufacturers design/build.


Thanks. Oh well, for those that really want an Edge but aren't happy with 2TB, I'm sure WeaKnees will be there for us.


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## tarheelblue32

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Interesting, the cable Bolts are gone from the TiVo website. Only the Bolt OTA is still there, probably while supplies last. It's 1TB and $250, vs. the 2TB $350 Edge for antenna. The Edge for cable has 2TB and is $400.
> 
> Just looking. I'm actually likely to sell off our Bolt and downsize to just the Roamio Pro and v2 Minis here, and as mentioned above we rely on the Fire TV Stick 4K for streaming now. There are no 4K cable channels here.
> 
> I'm also planning an HD HomeRun and Channels DVR system in a parallel test setup as we plan for the future while Rovi continues to run TiVo into the ground. But there's a TiVo Alternatives thread for that discussion.


My suspicion is that TiVo will keep selling the Bolt OTA as the "cheaper" cord-cutting option while supplies last. After they are sold out, I expect them to release a 2-tuner Edge OTA with a 1TB hard drive as the "cheaper" option, as was rumored a while ago, to compete directly with the Amazon DVR and Tablo 2-tuner budget options.


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## CloudAtlas

gary.buhrmaster said:


> None are in new production(*). 2TB is the current max for 2.5" constant use A/V drives. And that is due to the reality that the majority of the buyers of those types of drives are surveillance systems where 2TB is considered the sweet spot for capacity and thermals and pricing, so that is what the HD manufacturers design/build.
> 
> (*) And TiVo is going to want to choose drives they can get new/replacement ones of. That is perhaps why the 3TB Bolt left the building earlier than others.


TiVO stopped selling 3TB Bolts because Western Digital stopped making the 3TB drives due to problems. There were bad batches of the WD 3TB drive that made it into the Bolts. Everyone blamed heat but it was a WD problem.

Also for 98% of TiVo's customers the 2TB is fine. TiVo's not making design decisions based on the ability to swap in larger hard drives. So bizarre that people think this way.


----------



## omelet1978

I’ll have to wait on the initial reviews to see how these Tivo Edge units perform. I have a 3TB 6 Tuner Bolt on TE3 and my initial impression is to be very skeptical. One reason for that skepticism is the advertisement and website is like super flashy without giving much detail. 

Here is why I’m not updating for now (if I could get some feedback on if my logic is correct please):

1. I still use the Live Guide and it’s my preferred option for using Tivo after trying the Grid Guide multiple times.

2. Transfers of video recordings between TiVo’s doesn’t really work very well and fail after 1 or 2 videos have transferred. I’m not sure if this has been fixed but I doubt it given TiVo’s history. I’ve got a pretty big library of movies at this point.

3. 2 TB hard drive which is smaller than my current 3TB hard drive.

4. Tivo Plus software just looks to be an extension of the excessive tiles in Hydra. Beyond that after looking at TiVo’s website I’m not entirely sure what the software is.


----------



## CloudAtlas

NOTE: I updated initial post with new hardware information thanks to Ted:

EDGE uses a Broadcom BCM7278 with 4 cores running @1.8Ghz
EDGE uses a blower over the old fans in previous models. The inlet is below the unit, and the exhaust vents are on the lower right side below the ledge. Air flow is dramatically improved vs. BOLT. Should be much quieter.@TiVo_Ted
EDGE has more RAM (4GB vs 3GB on BOLT), USB 3.0, Dolby Vision. Also, we will be able to support Dolby AC4 audio natively, where on BOLT we would have to do this decode on the CPU.  @TiVo_Ted


----------



## spiderpumpkin

There are 2 USB ports on the back. I would buy the new Edge if it allowed any external drive to be plugged into the USB port on the back.
It would have been nice if the antenna Edge had apps for some or any of the streaming services like Sling, Youtube TV, PSVue, Philo, Hulu TV, etc.


----------



## krkaufman

slice1900 said:


> but what is the reason why ANYONE would want this? How is it better than the Bolt?


It'll be available for purchase from TiVo?


----------



## CloudAtlas

scottfll954 said:


> I dont get it .. from an EX tivo user ..but still interested
> Why would you spend 15.00 a month for service when comcast is 10.00 (I have comcast)
> I dont see the benefit of the EDGE


Why would you buy a Mercedes when a Hyundai is so much cheaper?! Why would you eat at a nice restaurant when fast food is so much cheaper? I love how everything TCF comes down to $$$. Who says male techies are obsessed with the cost of things?

TiVO is $150 yearly ($12.50) no matter how many TV's you have using Minis.

The TiVO Edge is just a model refresh. TiVO does this every 3 years and it's been 4 years! That's a longtime in tech. Not sure why this is a surprise. The model update is driven by the Cable companies who bundle TiVO. If you are a Cable company rolling out new TiVO hardware into the field do you really want to roll out 4 year old technology?

Remember choice is a good thing.


----------



## schatham

I doubt these units will sell very well. I mean you could buy a cable Bolt for $200, but now it's $400 to get in the door.

I know you get more, but it's going to turn off the average Joe.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

As hardware updates go, this is more modest than all previous generational updates.

Edge CPU is a 25% bump, rather than the 2-3x we usually get. This is not really Tivo's fault, but it's just to point out that the difference won't be very discernible unless you're hardcore into Dolby Vision or Atmos and the two apps that'll be updated support it. (I'm being snarky saying two, but I'm probably not far off.)

It's going to feel VERY "Bolty" with just a pinch more performance in the navigation.


----------



## bobfrank

omelet1978 said:


> I'll have to wait on the initial reviews to see how these Tivo Edge units perform. I have a 3TB 6 Tuner Bolt on TE3 and my initial impression is to be very skeptical. One reason for that skepticism is the advertisement and website is like super flashy without giving much detail.
> 
> Here is why I'm not updating for now (if I could get some feedback on if my logic is correct please):
> 
> 1. I still use the Live Guide and it's my preferred option for using Tivo after trying the Grid Guide multiple times.
> 
> 2. Transfers of video recordings between TiVo's doesn't really work very well and fail after 1 or 2 videos have transferred. I'm not sure if this has been fixed but I doubt it given TiVo's history. I've got a pretty big library of movies at this point.
> 
> 3. 2 TB hard drive which is smaller than my current 3TB hard drive.
> 
> 4. Tivo Plus software just looks to be an extension of the excessive tiles in Hydra. Beyond that after looking at TiVo's website I'm not entirely sure what the software is.


*In my opinion*:

1. I don't use the guide enough for that to make any difference to me. But since the live guide is important to you you should stay on TE3.

2. As I understand it transfers using TE4 are initiated through the Tivo web site. Most of the comments I've read around here are not positive about the ease and success with TE4 transfers. Transfers are important to me and, as you know, very easy using TE3.

2a. You didn't mention it, but transfers from PC to Tivo are not allowed under TE4. This is very important to me and a good reason to stay with TE3.

3. Bigger is better. Size does matter.

4. TE4, or Hydra, is loaded with tile graphics. Personally I really prefer the non-graphic UI in TE3.

5. Not on your list, and not nearly as important to me as it seems to be to many members here, TE3 is apparently not going to get the pre-roll ads. If you are sensitive to ads on your Tivo this would just be one more item to add to your decision to stay away from TE4.

So, to me, it appears that your logic to avoiding the Tivo Edge and being locked into TE4 forever is solid.


----------



## snerd

CloudAtlas said:


> I love how everything TCF comes down to $$$.


Wow, have you not seen the gripe fest about pre-roll ads?


----------



## sd2528

slice1900 said:


> I'd never consider this because of TE4, but what is the reason why ANYONE would want this? How is it better than the Bolt? I imagine it has a more recent CPU so it is faster, but the Bolt isn't exactly slow. Other than that it seems to have the exact same feature set as the Bolt. Why did they bother with the new model? Wouldn't it make sense for them to keeping selling Bolts there was a real reason to rev to a new model - like adding ATSC 3.0?


Because I said the same thing about a Bolt. Now I have 2 generation old TiVos and this one is 4K compatible. I'd like android app support to get more streaming/app options but if it isn't on this then I don't see that coming on a TiVo DVR anytime soon.


----------



## omelet1978

bobfrank said:


> *In my opinion*:
> 
> 1. I don't use the guide enough for that to make any difference to me. But since the live guide is important to you you should stay on TE3.
> 
> 2. As I understand it transfers using TE4 are initiated through the Tivo web site. Most of the comments I've read around here are not positive about the ease and success with TE4 transfers. Transfers are important to me and, as you know, very easy using TE3.
> 
> 2a. You didn't mention it, but transfers from PC to Tivo are not allowed under TE4. This is very important to me and a good reason to stay with TE3.
> 
> 3. Bigger is better. Size does matter.
> 
> 4. TE4, or Hydra, is loaded with tile graphics. Personally I really prefer the non-graphic UI in TE3.
> 
> 5. Not on your list, and not nearly as important to me as it seems to be to many members here, TE3 is apparently not going to get the pre-roll ads. If you are sensitive to ads on your Tivo this would just be one more item to add to your decision to stay away from TE4.
> 
> So, to me, it appears that your logic to avoiding the Tivo Edge and being locked into TE4 forever is solid.


Thank you for the info. Good to hear staying with TE3 makes sense.


----------



## tommiet

Called TiVo... Edge is 6 tuners and $399.00 + $549.00 for service.... No F'en way! Makes cable TV cheap.

Folks @ TiVo have been drinking the Apple Kool-Aid.


----------



## slice1900

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Roamio and older customers, I kinda get it IF their cable operator is starting to provide 4K content over QAM they care about watching. If not, they (and OTA users) should just get a $50 stick for *FAR* superior 4k/app support


Are there any cable operators distributing 4K channels via QAM? Even if there are, a 4K capable Mini should be able to work with a non-4K Roamio - similar to how Directv uses a non 4K capable DVR with a 4K capable client. Whether Tivo allows such a thing is another matter, but there is no technical roadblock - when a tuner decodes a QAM channel it doesn't know or care whether there are 4K, HD or SD channels inside, or whether they use MPEG2, MPEG4 or HEVC compression. Its just bits, and only means more bits need to be passed to the Mini for a 4K channel.


----------



## bobfrank

omelet1978 said:


> Thank you for the info. Good to hear staying with TE3 makes sense.


Great minds ...


----------



## Craigm

Best Buy just reduced the Bolt 1TB OTA to $211.99 and the Bolt 5ooGb to $179. So they must be clearing out for the New Edge


----------



## ehardman

If I get an Edge, I definitely will not spring for another lifetime and just pay annually. Done lifetime too many times since 1999.


----------



## compnurd

slice1900 said:


> Are there any cable operators distributing 4K channels via QAM? Even if there are, a 4K capable Mini should be able to work with a non-4K Roamio - similar to how Directv uses a non 4K capable DVR with a 4K capable client. Whether Tivo allows such a thing is another matter, but there is no technical roadblock - when a tuner decodes a QAM channel it doesn't know or care whether there are 4K, HD or SD channels inside, or whether they use MPEG2, MPEG4 or HEVC compression. Its just bits, and only means more bits need to be passed to the Mini for a 4K channel.


Yes my cable company has there 4K channel on QAM and my mini vox displays the channel in 4K HLG HDR


----------



## Wigohwt

ehardman said:


> If I get an Edge, I definitely will not spring for another lifetime and just pay annually. Done lifetime too many times since 1999.


What about an offer for a $100 lifetime transfer to the Edge from an old TiVo?


----------



## gamo62

cwoody222 said:


> Personally I think they scrapped the Roku, Fire and AppleTV apps and will just sell their own stick next year.
> 
> They first announced them in Jan and their new CEO started in May. He could have changed course.


We'll find out next CES in January.


----------



## gamo62

lucidrenegade said:


> So they added Dolby Vision and Atmos, but stuck with the crap application platform. No thanks.


As long as Netflix and Amazon update their apps. We should be good. But Tivo+ is a trainwreck right now. A LOT of lag going on.


----------



## wmcbrine

slice1900 said:


> Are there any cable operators distributing 4K channels via QAM?


Fios has a couple of part-time 4K QAM channels.


----------



## ehardman

Wigohwt said:


> What about an offer for a $100 lifetime transfer to the Edge from an old TiVo?


Sure, but I don't see that happening any time soon.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

TiVo_Ted has chimed in with answers to some of our questions over on the original Edge speculation thread: TiVo Edge (Series 7 DVR for Cable)


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

tommiet said:


> Called TiVo... Edge is 6 tuners and $399.00 + $549.00 for service.... No F'en way! Makes cable TV cheap.
> 
> Folks @ TiVo have been drinking the Apple Kool-Aid.


TiVo, like every consumer electronics company, is more than willing to let the early adopters pay full price (if you want it badly enough, you get to pay list). At some future point there might be one/more discount offerings, but never refuse full price at initial release time.

I would not be surprised that either Black Friday, or the (typical) next mid-year upgrade "sale" might offer better prices (especially for upgraders who might be offered a lifetime/all-in transfer at an aggressive price), but you have to be willing to wait, wait, and wait (which is not always easy if you want it now, now, now).


----------



## HenryPolk87

Wigohwt said:


> What about an offer for a $100 lifetime transfer to the Edge from an old TiVo?


No time soon. Check back in late July/Aug 2020 time frame.


----------



## TostitoBandito

Not sure why anyone would give Tivo money for this given the lack of support for the Bolt ecosystem. Especially when it comes to 4K/HDR and app support. Apps are very limited and out of date due to the OS they use, and there's no Dolby Vision support on the Bolt despite there being no technical reason I'm aware of why it can't support it. Unless major architectural changes have been made, I'd expect more of the same on the Edge. Pretty frustrated with Tivo as someone who paid like $600 for a lifetime Bolt as an all-in-one 4K box which it never even came close to being even years later.

Also, the huge Disney+ launch is soon and I doubt Tivo is going to have any app support for it on any generation (or at least I've seen zero indication that they will). So enjoy your already-obsolete streaming cable box.


----------



## mattyro7878

scottfll954 said:


> I dont get it .. from an EX tivo user ..but still interested
> 
> Why would you spend 15.00 a month for service when comcast is 10.00 (I have comcast)
> 
> Why would you deal with a cable card mess
> 
> Why would you deal with wires ...now that comcast is wireless ..
> 
> Plus many more small things
> 
> I dont see the benefit of the EDGE


Ten dollars? Does Comcast no longer charge an HD fee? Do they no longer charge for DVR service? I am a Comcast customer and if an HD DVR is ten bucks...I would look at one for a month to see if pq is better than my Roamio.


----------



## KevTech

scottfll954 said:


> Why would you spend 15.00 a month for service when comcast is 10.00 (I have comcast)


Are you talking about Comcast DVR rental?

My Comcast package includes a XG1v4 6 tuner 4K DVR at no monthly charge should I choose to get it but I prefer Tivo.


----------



## KevTech

mattyro7878 said:


> Does Comcast no longer charge an HD fee? Do they no longer charge for DVR service?


Most packages in my area now include HD fee and DVR at no extra charge except the real cheap packages like Saver.


----------



## Mikeguy

jakep_82 said:


> For anyone with a Roamio or Bolt that wants Atmos and Vision, why wouldn't you just get a $50 Fire TV Stick 4K? As a side benefit you also get significantly more and better apps. Spending $950 for those 2 minor features while being stuck with Tivo's terrible app ecosystem seems insane to me.


Thanks for helping educate me--I know almost nothing about Dolby Vision and Atmos. And so, those technologies don't currently come into play with broadcast TV?


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

mattyro7878 said:


> Ten dollars? Does Comcast no longer charge an HD fee? Do they no longer charge for DVR service? I am a Comcast customer and if an HD DVR is ten bucks...I would look at one for a month to see if pq is better than my Roamio.


This is one of those cases where "it depends", and part of the depends is your package/bundle, and your location. Many (not all) of the new(er) packages include the HD Tech fee, and the first box is "free", so adding the DVR service is only $10/mo more than the package if the package does not already include the DVR service (some of the newest ones in certain locations include the DVR service). However, as with all else, your specifics may vary. And if you are already using a CableCARD as your (free) first box, then you also would see an additional fee to add a box (which I think ends up being around $12.50/mo because of two associated fees) to your account (or exchange your CableCARD for a X1 branded box for your testing?).

In practice, I suspect the pq of the X1 boxen is not likely to be significantly different than your roamio if you are talking classic linear QAM cable channels, as the bits are the same (and Comcast does compress aggressively for linear QAM). Only those channels offered over IPTV may be different, and only some locations have started offering many of their offerings via IPTV (so, again, location, location, location).


----------



## jmiller50

I am semi considering as I have a 10 year old 2-tuner Premiere. If the right deal came, I might bite. I don't really want to wait until the Premiere dies. Might have to look at one of the cable Bolt's since they seem to be reduced to sell.


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

Mikeguy said:


> And so, those technologies don't currently come into play with broadcast TV?


ATSC 3.0 Broadcast TV has the capability to offer enhanced capabilities. There is currently only a small number of ATSC 3.0 broadcasting channels, and as the Edge is not documented to support ATSC 3.0, that will require the (rumored) ATSC 3.0 dongle at some future date to be able to take advantage of any of those enhanced capabilities.


----------



## buildersboy66

How accessible is the hard drive? Anyone know?


----------



## Mikeguy

gary.buhrmaster said:


> ATSC 3.0 Broadcast TV has the capability to offer enhanced capabilities. There is currently only a small number of ATSC 3.0 broadcasting channels, and as the Edge is not documented to support ATSC 3.0, that will require the (rumored) ATSC 3.0 dongle at some future date to be able to take advantage of any of those enhanced capabilities.


Thanks. And so the only real reasons to get the Edge box, for me (over my Bolt box), would be (1) the slightly more powerful chip + greater RAM, and (2) supporting TiVo's financial efforts. I think that I'm happy with my Bolt box.


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

buildersboy66 said:


> How accessible is the hard drive? Anyone know?


Except for the (special) person who got one to replace their bolt, it is not yet (officially) shipping so I don't expect an ifixit teardown/repair guide for another few weeks at the earliest (one persons trivial is another persons impossible).


----------



## lessd

Will the Edge fix the problem of OD for Comcast (Xfinity) customers that was removed some months ago on all TiVos ??


----------



## KevTech

lessd said:


> Will the Edge fix the problem of OD for Comcast (Xfinity) customers that was removed some months ago on all TiVos ??


Up to Comcast to do that as they provide the app.


----------



## lessd

KevTech said:


> Up to Comcast to do that as they provide the app.


I was told it was because Comcast changed the way OD works the the current TiVo could not handle, can the Edge handle Comcast OD if Comcast wants to allow it ?


----------



## dishrich

Until Comcast & Tivo get all of their lawsuits worked out, I *HIGHLY* doubt OD is coming back anytime soon
AND...with their (SLOW) migration to IPTV, Tivo is going to be hard-pressed to get few, if any, Comcast TV subs to buy a new Tivo at this stage...unless the 2 work out a way for IPTV to be supported on Comcast. (again, ain't happening until all their lawsuits play out...)


----------



## chrishicks

dishrich said:


> Until Comcast & Tivo get all of their lawsuits worked out, I *HIGHLY* doubt OD is coming back anytime soon
> AND...with their (SLOW) migration to IPTV, Tivo is going to be hard-pressed to get few, if any, Comcast TV subs to buy a new Tivo at this stage...unless the 2 work out a way for IPTV to be supported on Comcast. (again, ain't happening until all their lawsuits play out...)


This is my concern right now. I used to have 4 Series 3 boxes that were rendered useless on Comcast when they moved to MPEG4. Now I'm using a Roamio as my main box with a pair of X1's as well. I would love to buy another Tivo but if Comcast decided to switch to IPTV in the next few months for example I'd have another expensive paperweight as far as Comcast use which is why I ended up with a second X1 instead. If Comcast decided to broadcast their system from Mars next week and my current box doesn't support it all I have to do is drive to a local office and get one that does. With Tivo not so much. And for anyone wanting to point out the cost of renting versus buying a Tivo it would take 4 years of renting before covering the cost of a new Tivo and who's to say Comcast will even be usable on it in say 2 years? That has to be a concern to some.


----------



## seaninde

Radiolarian said:


> I just ordered the cable model of the Edge by phone. They said I was the first order. It is supposed to start shipping between October 7th and October 10th.


HAHA, I guess they just lied to you because you can see my post at 8:30am when I ordered mine lol.


----------



## seaninde

jakep_82 said:


> For anyone with a Roamio or Bolt that wants Atmos and Vision, why wouldn't you just get a $50 Fire TV Stick 4K? As a side benefit you also get significantly more and better apps. Spending $950 for those 2 minor features while being stuck with Tivo's terrible app ecosystem seems insane to me.


I use Apple TV for all my streaming stuff, not Tivo, or anything built into TV. Apples system is just fast and works, plus I can rent movies from apple store.


----------



## buildersboy66

I have no self restraint and purchased one too. 10/1


----------



## seaninde

mattyro7878 said:


> Ten dollars? Does Comcast no longer charge an HD fee? Do they no longer charge for DVR service? I am a Comcast customer and if an HD DVR is ten bucks...I would look at one for a month to see if pq is better than my Roamio.


Comcast charges both a DVR fee 19.95 and and HD fee 10.00 for me so I will save 50% a month. I bought the edge because my last Comcast DVR is dying and its the motorola box that has the clearest picture, but my local comcast phased them out. The web based compressed X1 pictures are so bad. I tried X1 and it was horrible. When you have a 6000.00 sony master series TV that produces an insanely clear picture if fed a decent signal, you don't settle for a crappy compressed feed. It needs a local hard drive based DVR.


----------



## seaninde

lessd said:


> I was told it was because Comcast changed the way OD works the the current TiVo could not handle, can the Edge handle Comcast OD if Comcast wants to allow it ?


I doubt it, but I hardly use comcast OD because of its laggy interface and also the forced commercials you can't skip through on TV shows. Between Netflix, Amazon Prime and regular cable TV there is so much content already I could care less about on demand. For me it was no big loss as I rarely used it


----------



## cherry ghost

I just want to know which 2TB drive they’re using so I can buy one for my Bolt that’s still new in the box.


----------



## wtherrell

Seems like a lot of money at the moment but my lifetime subscriptions have all paid for themselves many times over. Take your monthly fee and multiply by twelve. Divide that into the lifetime cost and you will see your break-even point in years. That was an eye opener for me. I always do the lifetime deal especially when it's offered at a reduced price.


----------



## mntvjunkie

wtherrell said:


> Seems like a lot of money at the moment but my lifetime subscriptions have all paid for themselves many times over. Take your monthly fee and multiply by twelve. Divide that into the lifetime cost and you will see your break-even point in years. That was an eye opener for me. I always do the lifetime deal especially when it's offered at a reduced price.


Comcast charges $10 a month for X1 in my area. At current TiVo prices, my break even would be 7.9 years. My current TiVo just turned 6, if I get 2 more years out of it without a new hard drive it'll be pure luck. A new hard drive will add another year to break even for me (likely). If the power supply lasts 9 years, I'd be surprised.

X1 is cheaper and less risky. I was willing to pay a premium for TiVo until preroll ads became the future plans. I had set aside money to buy this day 1, but with preroll ads and the impossibility of break even vs an X1, I'm gonna limp along with my current one, and then when it dies switch to X1.


----------



## V7Goose

wtherrell said:


> Seems like a lot of money at the moment but my lifetime subscriptions have all paid for themselves many times over. Take your monthly fee and multiply by twelve. Divide that into the lifetime cost and you will see your break-even point in years. That was an eye opener for me. I always do the lifetime deal especially when it's offered at a reduced price.


Buying lifetime has always been a gamble, but mine too have always paid off - my series 3s are still running beyond 10 years each, and my Bolts paid off quick because of the high-discount transfer offers I used.

BUT, I would NOT buy a new lifetime at the current prices. Just too high, and I absolutely do NOT trust Rovi after this recent forced-commercials crap they pulled.


----------



## wmcbrine

lessd said:


> I was told it was because Comcast changed the way OD works the the current TiVo could not handle, can the Edge handle Comcast OD if Comcast wants to allow it ?


What they mean is, the old on-demand system was a hybrid, where the control codes were sent via IP, but the video itself was delivered via dedicated QAM channels. Comcast is ditching that in favor of a pure IP system.

Every TiVo, back to the Series 2, is capable of streaming video over IP. They just have to write a new app for the TiVo to do it. It's not a hardware issue.


----------



## mntvjunkie

wmcbrine said:


> What they mean is, the old on-demand system was a hybrid, where the control codes were sent via IP, but the video itself was delivered via dedicated QAM channels. Comcast is ditching that in favor of a pure IP system.
> 
> Every TiVo, back to the Series 2, is capable of streaming video over IP. They just have to write a new app for the TiVo to do it. It's not a hardware issue.


And with Tivo being so hostile towards Comcast, I wouldn't count on Tivo adding support for Comcast IPTV in any form, any time in the near future. Both companies are playing a game of chicken, but Tivo has stated that it's future business model is to force Xfinity to remove features until they have to fairly settle with Tivo. I certainly understand their position, but it is not a consumer-friendly one, as it means that both platforms are going to be sub-par (and in the end Comcast could easily deliver the final blow to Tivo by transitioning to all-IPTV if things get too sour. In my market, Xfinity has been all X1 for over 4 years now, and all new channels/services they roll out have been exclusively IPTV for at least the last 2 years. It really is a matter of time before they have enough of their own hardware out there to phase out non-IPTV delivery.

With the two business units splitting, I could see a scenario where Comcast buys the patent side of the business, just to get the lawsuits finished. Then again, they could just wait for the patents to expire to turn the functionality back on, like they did with Remote Scheduling last week.


----------



## zubinh

I fail to realize why anyone would upgrade to this. Dolby Vision and Atmos on Netflix and Youtube seems to be the only added feature. This everyone has with Apple TV, Roku or Chromecast. Am I missing something?? What Tivo should do is focus their efforts on getting more apps capable of 4K/DV/Atmos. Namely Amazon Prime and Hulu.


----------



## bob1000

Count me out.

1) I would need a 6 tuner model so I could retire both of my 4 tuner Premieres. I wanted the savings on returning the 2nd cable card plus less electricity to cover a significant part of the initial cost over maybe 4 years. Almost $1,000 going out is ridiculous.

2) My ROKU combined with my Premieres do a great job for TV and streaming. I use a Logitech 650 remote to control fast switches - 1 button for TV or 1 button for ROKU.

3) The trend for Tivo commercials before recordings is quite off-putting. It defeats the purpose of commercial skip. Also, PlayOn Desktop offers acceptable commercial skip on recordings. Not perfect but not bad. Some channels have no ads thanks to the ad blocker associated with my router. (note a PC with strong processor is needed to avoid judder on recordings. Mine is an i5 with about 5400 Passmark. A J1900 is too weak.)


----------



## mazman

wmcbrine said:


> What they mean is, the old on-demand system was a hybrid, where the control codes were sent via IP, but the video itself was delivered via dedicated QAM channels. Comcast is ditching that in favor of a pure IP system.
> 
> Every TiVo, back to the Series 2, is capable of streaming video over IP. They just have to write a new app for the TiVo to do it. It's not a hardware issue.


Do you think the on-demand solution will be to port the Xfinity Stream app to TiVo?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

seaninde said:


> HAHA, I guess they just lied to you because you can see my post at 8:30am when I ordered mine lol.


Maybe it was a different call center. Anyway, we're counting on you both for "Reports From the Edge", so-to-speak. OK?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

mazman said:


> Do you think the on-demand solution will be to port the Xfinity Stream app to TiVo?


Xfinity Stream is a white label re-skin and rebrand of TV Everywhere, so now there would be three parties involved. It's complicated. Also, everything has to be completely re-written for TiVo, just like for embedded television apps. Even more complicated. But I'm just saying it would be hard. Don't know if it would be impossible, but it seems to be.


----------



## compuguy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> For Bolt owners the modest CPU bump, Atmos and DV support are barely worth $95, much less another $950.
> 
> Roamio and older customers, I kinda get it IF their cable operator is starting to provide 4K content over QAM they care about watching. If not, they (and OTA users) should just get a $50 stick for *FAR* superior 4k/app support.
> 
> Otherwise, Edge is added to the "Why do I exist?" pile with the 2-tuner Premiere and caffeine-free Mountain Dew.


This is partially why I transferred my lifetime from a Roamio base to a Bolt. I'm using it now for backup OTA for now....


----------



## Mikeguy

V7Goose said:


> Buying lifetime has always been a gamble, but mine too have always paid off - my series 3s are still running beyond 10 years each, and my Bolts paid off quick because of the high-discount transfer offers I used.
> 
> BUT, I would NOT buy a new lifetime at the current prices. Just too high, and I absolutely do NOT trust Rovi after this recent forced-commercials crap they pulled.


The cost of the Edge OTA is only marginally higher than for the Bolt OTA, and for that you're getting a 2TB hard drive as vs. 1TB (plus a slightly faster processor/more RAM). Having said that, there's been a bit of slow price creep since the first OTA with Lifetime model came out with the Roamio OTA at $400, with the new OTA model at $200 above that (including Lifetime)--$600 is "up there" again.

It saddens me to say it, but, what equally would concern me now with Lifetime is how long that might be. Who knows what will be happening next year with Rovi's TiVo division, what a subsequent owner's plans might be, and what the legal status of a Lifetime contract might be.*

* To be fair, I had some of the same questions 20 years ago when this new startup TiVo came out with its first box--would it be around to guarantee the value of a Lifetime contract?


----------



## seaninde

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Maybe it was a different call center. Anyway, we're counting on you both for "Reports From the Edge", so-to-speak. OK?


Yeah we will see. I have no problem returning an item that isn't up to snuff. But I never had so many tuners, so that is one plus for me (my comcast Motorola box only has 2). No more missing a show because its on same time as 2 others.


----------



## Adam C.

Mikeguy said:


> The cost of the Edge OTA is only marginally higher than for the Bolt OTA, and for that you're getting a 2TB hard drive as vs. 1TB (plus a slightly faster processor/more RAM). Having said that, there's been a bit of slow price creep since the first OTA with Lifetime model came out with the Roamio OTA at $400, with the new OTA model at $200 above that (including Lifetime)--$600 is "up there" again.


600 bucks for OTA makes absolutely no sense when the Recast is available on sale for less than a third of that cost.


----------



## tommiet

Mikeguy said:


> Thanks. And so the only real reasons to get the Edge box, for me (over my Bolt box), would be (1) the slightly more powerful chip + greater RAM, and (2) supporting TiVo's financial efforts. I think that I'm happy with my Bolt box.


Don't hide it Mike... we know your a closet Edge guy and have TiVo stock!


----------



## Mikeguy

Adam C. said:


> 600 bucks for OTA makes absolutely no sense when the Recast is available on sale for less than a third of that cost.


I guess, it depends on needs/wants. From what I read, TiVo still has the smoothest and most feature-laden experience. But I understand what you're saying and the $300 difference (figuring in a needed Fire stick and not looking at sale prices) is a $300 difference--plus, the Recast box is easier and significantly less expensive to populate throughout the house. A reason why each of my TiVo boxes has been a special promotion purchase.


----------



## omelet1978

Could you get a Tivo Edge and downgrade it to Tivo Experience 3? 

Thus keeping the live guide and non-tile interface and taking advantage of the faster processor and newer design?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

omelet1978 said:


> Could you get a Tivo Edge and downgrade it to Tivo Experience 3?
> 
> Thus keeping the live guide and non-tile interface and taking advantage of the faster processor and newer design?


As far as we know, downgrading ("sidegrading") will not be possible.

Someone may come up with a TE3 hack for the Edge, but I'm not holding my breath waiting.


----------



## tarheelblue32

omelet1978 said:


> Could you get a Tivo Edge and downgrade it to Tivo Experience 3?
> 
> Thus keeping the live guide and non-tile interface and taking advantage of the faster processor and newer design?


No. The Edge cannot be downgraded to TE3.


----------



## snerd

zubinh said:


> I fail to realize why anyone would upgrade to this. Dolby Vision and Atmos on Netflix and Youtube seems to be the only added feature. This everyone has with Apple TV, Roku or Chromecast. Am I missing something?? What Tivo should do is focus their efforts on getting more apps capable of 4K/DV/Atmos. Namely Amazon Prime and Hulu.


I wouldn't upgrade at full price, but next time TiVo offers a special deal to transfer Lifetime/All-In, I will consider upgrading my Bolts to alleviate fears about failure due to poor heat management. Tivo-Ted has stated that the Edge design has much better air flow than the Bolt. I'd probably just sell the Bolt with All-In in place, and use an old Premiere 2-tuner for the upgrade. Even this is iffy though, since I'm a TE3 fan.


----------



## hefe

seaninde said:


> I would never do lifetime, tech changes way too fast to keep a dvr that long and who knows, Tivo could go under in a few years. Its too much money in my opinion.


I've had 4 TiVo's since 2000. I've bought lifetime 3 times, (once I got a transfer) including my current Roamio that I bought 6 (?!) years ago. I think I've gotten my money's worth every time.


----------



## mazman

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Xfinity Stream is a white label re-skin and rebrand of TV Everywhere, so now there would be three parties involved. It's complicated. Also, everything has to be completely re-written for TiVo, just like for embedded television apps. Even more complicated. But I'm just saying it would be hard. Don't know if it would be impossible, but it seems to be.


Thanks for the info. Now I'm wondering if we'll on-demand back on Comcast connected TiVos.


----------



## Mikeguy

hefe said:


> I've had 4 TiVo's since 2000. I've bought lifetime 3 times, (once I got a transfer) including my current Roamio that I bought 6 (?!) years ago. I think I've gotten my money's worth every time.


But has TiVo internally ever been in as uncertain a time as now, at least post Series 1? That's what concerns me--current Rovi plans are company life-changing, and who knows what will happen next.


----------



## Mikeguy

seaninde said:


> Yeah we will see. I have no problem returning an item that isn't up to snuff. But I never had so many tuners, so that is one plus for me (my comcast Motorola box only has 2). No more missing a show because its on same time as 2 others.


I moved to a Roamio 4-tuner box from my 1-tuner Toshiba Series 2 TiVo box--I felt like a pig in its sty.


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

omelet1978 said:


> Could you get a Tivo Edge and downgrade it to Tivo Experience 3?


Never say never, but it is highly likely that the platform hardware enablements are only going to be in TE4 software images.


----------



## hefe

Mikeguy said:


> But has TiVo internally ever been in as uncertain a time as now, at least post Series 1? That's what concerns me--current Rovi plans are company life-changing, and who knows what will happen next.


Yes, absolutely. I feel like we've been talking about TiVo's demise for a LONG time...certainly during the time I bought my last one.


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

zubinh said:


> I fail to realize why anyone would upgrade to this. Dolby Vision and Atmos on Netflix and Youtube seems to be the only added feature. This everyone has with Apple TV, Roku or Chromecast. Am I missing something??


I can certainly believe there are some with older devices that are perceived to be approaching the devices last good months and need an upgrade, along with those that want the latest and greatest tech/features, and which want to maintain their TiVo experience (some people may love their experience, or do not want to even consider a change to something like a Apple TV (there is no peanut remote!)). To each their own.


----------



## bobfrank

Mikeguy said:


> Thanks. And so the only real reasons to get the Edge box, for me (over my Bolt box), would be (1) the slightly more powerful chip + greater RAM, and (2) supporting TiVo's financial efforts. I think that I'm happy with my Bolt box.


I suppose those would my only reasons to buy and Edge as well. But since I would be required to use TE4 with no way to upgrade back to TE3 there's no way I'm going to buy one.


----------



## Mikeguy

gary.buhrmaster said:


> I can certainly believe there are some with older devices that are perceived to be approaching the devices last good months and need an upgrade, along with those that want the latest and greatest tech/features, and which want to maintain their TiVo experience (some people may love their experience, or do not want to even consider a change to something like a Apple TV (there is no peanut remote!)). To each their own.


Plus, you get the new pre-roll ads feature!


----------



## ufo4sale

hefe said:


> Yes, absolutely. I feel like we've been talking about TiVo's demise for a LONG time...certainly during the time I bought my last one.


I have too much invested in TiVo to let it go under.


----------



## Bierboy

seaninde said:


> ...and who knows, Tivo could go under in a few years...


Puh-LEEEEZ. How often has this been said the past 15 years?


----------



## Bierboy

Adam C. said:


> Like what? I have had my Roamio OTA for almost 3 years and I see no need to replace it. Here we are 3 years later, the Edge is now available and I see no technological advances that would entice me to upgrade.


Same here...I've had it for the same amount of time. I'm a permanent cord-cutter. Using Hulu Live TV and the Roamio OTA here in Indy. I have MORE than enough to watch, and the Roamio purrs on...


----------



## gary.buhrmaster

hefe said:


> Yes, absolutely. I feel like we've been talking about TiVo's demise for a LONG time...certainly during the time I bought my last one.


"The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." - Mark Twain


----------



## chiguy50

Mikeguy said:


> Thanks for helping educate me--I know almost nothing about Dolby Vision and Atmos. And so, those technologies don't currently come into play with broadcast TV?


For all intents and purposes, there is little to nothing currently airing in either DV or Atmos. The reason for including these pass-through capabilities in the Edge is for streaming content, not broadcast or cable TV (at present, at least).

Just to be clear: In the case of both technologies, the TiVo Edge is only acting as a pass-through device. In order for the viewer to receive a video signal encoded in Dolby Vision, all devices in the chain must be DV-certified (and the HDMI cables must be capable of conveying the signal, such as, but not limited to, those labelled "Premium Certified"). Finally, if your display is not DV-certified, the video will not play in DV.

Similarly, a Dolby Atmos-encoded audio stream passing through the TiVo Edge would need to be decoded by an external DA-certified decoding device in the signal chain such as an AVR or soundbar with the built-in technology. And, finally, a proper immersive audio reproduction will also require overhead (or "height") speakers to recreate the 3D hemisphere of sound. Without overhead (or Dolby Atmos Enabled "bounce") speakers, the best you can hope for is simulated or virtual immersive audio.


----------



## wmcbrine

mazman said:


> Do you think the on-demand solution will be to port the Xfinity Stream app to TiVo?


That's what I'd do, but I'm avoiding any expectations.


----------



## seaninde

Bierboy said:


> Puh-LEEEEZ. How often has this been said the past 15 years?


Well it was in a wall street news article because the company is trying to split off the hardware division, which is a sign of trouble. Also the pre-roll ads are a way to try and generate additional revenue. You guys all want to pay nothing for the hardware and less for the service, but want them to stay in business while all this new competition from streaming sites, devices, etc. is at full speed. It take lots of revenue to keep a company afloat these days. 10 years ago it was just cable companies, that's much different today.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Hadn't seen this previously. The antenna version comes with the "LUX" remote, which is the Vox remote, but backlit. (That would be the new remote that passed through the FCC a couple weeks ago.)

Cable version gets the old Vox remote, because logic.


----------



## Mikeguy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Hadn't seen this previously. *The antenna version comes with the "LUX" remote, which is the Vox remote, but backlit. *(That would be the new remote that passed through the FCC a couple weeks ago.)
> 
> Cable version gets the old Vox remote, because logic.


See, something nice!


----------



## buildersboy66

I will pay whatever...just give me accurate guide data and channel lineups. That's all I demand LOL


----------



## tarheelblue32

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Hadn't seen this previously. The antenna version comes with the "LUX" remote, which is the Vox remote, but backlit. (That would be the new remote that passed through the FCC a couple weeks ago.)
> 
> Cable version gets the old Vox remote, because logic.


I'm sure the new Lux remote will be sold separately in the accessories store soon enough if you really have to have it with the Edge cable version.


----------



## caughey

Bierboy said:


> Puh-LEEEEZ. How often has this been said the past 15 years?


It's bound to come true eventually.



gary.buhrmaster said:


> "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." - Mark Twain


I rest my case.


----------



## seaninde

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Hadn't seen this previously. The antenna version comes with the "LUX" remote, which is the Vox remote, but backlit. (That would be the new remote that passed through the FCC a couple weeks ago.)
> 
> Cable version gets the old Vox remote, because logic.


Where do you see this? I don't see that listed anywhere.


----------



## HerronScott

gary.buhrmaster said:


> This is one of those cases where "it depends", and part of the depends is your package/bundle, and your location. Many (not all) of the new(er) packages include the HD Tech fee, and the first box is "free", so adding the DVR service is only $10/mo more than the package if the package does not already include the DVR service (some of the newest ones in certain locations include the DVR service). However, as with all else, your specifics may vary.


I'm currently on a Preferred Double Play package with Comcast which does not include a DVR or the HD technology fee, but I do see on the new rate chart that the new somewhat similar packages include HD programming just on the primary outlet so you still need to pay extra for HD on additional outlets and yes it has DVR service but only 10 hour DVR service (and no mention if you can get more recording time or the cost?). If you have additional outlets, you would still need the $9.95 HD technology fee added plus the cost of the ADO or Anyroom DVR service ($10.00) so that can really add up in monthly costs when compared to a TiVo and Mini's even if they do have HD service and DVR on the primary outlet.

But again your mileage may vary depending on your Comcast franchise rate chart as you mention.

Scott


----------



## HerronScott

ehardman said:


> If I get an Edge, I definitely will not spring for another lifetime and just pay annually. Done lifetime too many times since 1999.


You haven't taken advantage of lifetime transfer or upgrade offers given how long you've had TiVo's? Our original 2 lifetime purchases in 2000/2002 for our S1's were transferred to 2 S3 in 2007 for $199 each and then we took advantage of a longtime TiVo user in 2015 to get lifetime on a new Roamio Pro purchase for $99 (and did the same for my son's HD upgrading to a Bolt with lifetime for $99).

Lifetime/All-in has paid for itself many times over if you can take advantage of the special offers (and would otherwise as well given how long we have used each generation of TiVo).

Scott


----------



## chiguy50

HerronScott said:


> I'm currently on a Preferred Double Play package with Comcast which does not include a DVR or the HD technology fee, but I do see on the new rate chart that the new somewhat similar packages include HD programming just on the primary outlet so you still need to pay extra for HD on additional outlets and yes it has DVR service but only 10 hour DVR service (and no mention if you can get more recording time or the cost?). If you have additional outlets, you would still need the $9.95 HD technology fee added plus the cost of the ADO or Anyroom DVR service ($10.00) so that can really add up in monthly costs when compared to a TiVo and Mini's even if they do have HD service and DVR on the primary outlet.
> 
> But again your mileage may vary depending on your Comcast franchise rate chart as you mention.
> 
> Scott


Like you, I have a Preferred Double Play package on the older fee schedule (pre-"Simple, Easy") that requires a separate HD Technology Fee [but note that this does not apply to customers like me who have only customer-owned equipment (COE) (viz., CableCARD-enabled TiVo) rather than Comcast digital receivers on their account]. Therefore, I can not speak from personal experience regarding the newer plans.

HOWEVER, on all of Comcast's systems that I have investigated the HD Technology Fee is applied to the account and not to the device; therefore, you will incur only one $9.95 charge p.m. of this particular fee regardless of the number of HD digital receivers in use. Obviously, this proviso does not pertain to the device rental charge, which is levied per item.

Your Comcast division (I am in the Big South Region of the Central Division) has not yet transitioned to "Simple, Easy" but a cursory look at service fees at your geographic location confirms that a new subscriber there is only subject to one HD Technology Fee, no matter how many devices are added to the account. I also do not see any ADO fees per se, only fees per additional device: $6.99 per TV Adapter or $9.99 per TV Box, both of which deliver HD video. I would guess that the difference between the two is that the TV Adapter is not interactive and does not allow for VOD.

As far as the DVR currently offered at your location, that would be the X1, which has six QAM tuners and a 500GB HDD. The newer equipment list (Xi5 or Xi6 for the primary device) has cloud DVR service and comes with a basic 20 hours storage capacity which you can upgrade to 60 hours for an additional $10. Currently at your location you can choose as your primary device a simple HD TV Box for $2.68 or the DVR instead for $10 more.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

seaninde said:


> Where do you see this? I don't see that listed anywhere.


Lux Remote: Tivo Customer Support Community


----------



## KevTech

Tivo should just have the Lux remote with all Edge models.


----------



## lhvetinari

It'll be interesting to see if the Lux remote has a proper motion sensor (for auto-lighting when picked up). If it does, I imagine I'll replace my old peanuts in fairly short order (once you can buy them separately)


----------



## tarheelblue32

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Lux Remote: Tivo Customer Support Community


I think I see another typo. It says "Connects up to 12 TiVo Mini devices", but last time I checked you're only allowed 12 TiVo devices on one account, so 11 Minis is the most that you could connect.


----------



## JoeKustra

tarheelblue32 said:


> I think I see another typo. It says "Connects up to 12 TiVo Mini devices", but last time I checked you're only allowed 12 TiVo devices on one account, so 11 Minis is the most that you could connect.


Maybe TiVo wrote new software for the IBM 360 that they use for a server.


----------



## jespenshade

KevTech said:


> Tivo should just have the Lux remote with all Edge models.


Has anyone used a VOX remote with the original TE3 software? I would like to get the LUX remote but not if pressing the Voice button would cause it to ask for an "upgrade" to Hydra.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

tarheelblue32 said:


> I think I see another typo. It says "Connects up to 12 TiVo Mini devices", but last time I checked you're only allowed 12 TiVo devices on one account, so 11 Minis is the most that you could connect.


They also use the Bolt's size/weight on the Edge OTA's main product page. Their web team screws up every release.

I also cringed hard at the "Streaming Features" section of the main product page where they try to compare themselves to a Recast, Roku and Apple TV... Are they kidding? :laughing:


----------



## V7Goose

jespenshade said:


> Has anyone used a VOX remote with the original TE3 software? I would like to get the LUX remote but not if pressing the Voice button would cause it to ask for an "upgrade" to Hydra.


I have not actually done it, but I am going to say this anyway: Pressing the vox button on ANY remote with a TiVo box running TE3 WILL cause the box to start/request an upgrade (downgrade) to TE4 software. This is because TE3 CANNOT use VOX. The good news is that, as I understand it, you always have an opportunity to refuse the software change before TE4 actually destroys your working TiVo.


----------



## krkaufman

A seemingly glaring app availability issue for the EDGE series ... no VUDU.

See: Tivo Customer Support Community


















Any ETA, @TiVo_Ted ??


----------



## KevTech

Does Edge have any lights?

Looks like it does not have any at all.

Edit: I downloaded the user guide and Edge has three lights in the bottom right corner.


----------



## compnurd

KevTech said:


> Does Edge have any lights?
> 
> Looks like it does not have any at all.


Yes 3 in the bottom right


----------



## compnurd

krkaufman said:


> A seemingly glaring app availability issue for the EDGE series ... no VUDU.
> 
> See: Tivo Customer Support Community
> 
> View attachment 43667
> 
> View attachment 43666
> 
> 
> Any ETA, @TiVo_Ted ??


Hmm Maybe Vudu will have the first DV app


----------



## krkaufman

compnurd said:


> Hmm Maybe Vudu will have the first DV app


I was hoping VUDU might provide a hint but their UHD compatibility list hasn't been updated since December, when HDR was added for the BOLT. (Mini VOX isn't even listed.)

Vudu UHD - Compatible Devices List - Vudu Forums


----------



## buildersboy66

OMG I need VUDU. Lets ship them puppies out BTW. TiVo said I would have my edge by Saturday.


----------



## celtic pride

I wonder why if i have to pay more for the cable edge i dont get the lux remote? If i buy the lux remote i assume it will work with the cable edge?


----------



## buildersboy66

The new remote should have been with cable version not OTA. Not a big deal for me but seriously makes no sense. How about packing a new remote in the box separately TiVo? TED?


----------



## slice1900

HerronScott said:


> You haven't taken advantage of lifetime transfer or upgrade offers given how long you've had TiVo's? Our original 2 lifetime purchases in 2000/2002 for our S1's were transferred to 2 S3 in 2007 for $199 each and then we took advantage of a longtime TiVo user in 2015 to get lifetime on a new Roamio Pro purchase for $99 (and did the same for my son's HD upgrading to a Bolt with lifetime for $99).
> 
> Lifetime/All-in has paid for itself many times over if you can take advantage of the special offers (and would otherwise as well given how long we have used each generation of TiVo).
> 
> Scott


No doubt. I've only owned three Tivos, but have not paid a whole lot for any of them. My first was a Toshiba labeled SD Tivo I bought in the early 2000s that came with "Tivo basic" included which was only three days of guide. You could pay to upgrade to full service but I never did.

I used it until about 10 years ago when I was able to get a big break on the purchase of lifetime for a Premiere due to owning that older box with basic service. Then a while back I bought a Bolt on one of those deals giving a massive discount to transfer lifetime from the Premiere. But they never did - it still has lifetime, even though I just let it sit around gathering dust.

I considered taking advantage of the recent offer to do the same deal again, planning to sell the never used Bolt w/lifetime on eBay. I checked and verified my Premiere is still eligible for that deal, but I forgot about it until it was too late. Hopefully the deal comes back again, either for a heavily discounted Bolt when they are trying to clear inventory for the Edge or for an Edge.

I think I paid about $200 for the first Tivo, either $300 or $400 for the Premiere (can't recall) and $400 for the Bolt, so I'm basically at $1000 for well over 15 years of using a Tivo. I would have spent several times that much had I been renting a DVR from the cable company (and pretty sure it was a few years after I got my first one before they even offered one)

Its been a great run, but the Edge is the first one that hasn't tempted me even slightly. While I didn't upgrade until the Premiere, I considered the 3/HD. My cable company just didn't have enough HD channels to be worth it at first. I would have considered the Roamio if a good deal had come along, but I'm glad I waited for the Bolt as it was a much bigger step up and I got a great deal on it. The whole TE4 thing (even before the preroll ad fiasco) means the Bolt is the last Tivo I'll ever use. If it were to die on me, I'd just buy another one either off Tivo's site refurbished, or used off eBay.


----------



## snerd

V7Goose said:


> I have not actually done it, but I am going to say this anyway: Pressing the vox button on ANY remote with a TiVo box running TE3 WILL cause the box to start/request an upgrade (downgrade) to TE4 software. This is because TE3 CANNOT use VOX. The good news is that, as I understand it, you always have an opportunity to refuse the software change before TE4 actually destroys your working TiVo.


Close! You can effectively disable the VOX button by holding both C+TiVo buttons for a few seconds to put the remote in IR mode. The downside is that you have to be more careful about where you point the remote. For me, that has been better than getting the "upgrade nag", but I really don't like the layout of the VOX remote. Maybe I'll buy another RCN remote from ebay.


----------



## JoeKustra

snerd said:


> Close! You can effectively disable the VOX button by holding both C+TiVo buttons for a few seconds to put the remote in IR mode. The downside is that you have to be more careful about where you point the remote. For me, that has been better than getting the "upgrade nag", but I really don't like the layout of the VOX remote. Maybe I'll buy another RCN remote from ebay.


True, especially if you have a Roamio VOX sitting on top of your Premiere. But, does a VOX remote allow IR channel settings? With all the interference in my viewing room, I get dropped into IR mode a lot anyway.


----------



## snerd

JoeKustra said:


> True, especially if you have a Roamio VOX sitting on top of your Premiere. But, does a VOX remote allow IR channel settings? With all the interference in my viewing room, I get dropped into IR mode a lot anyway.


Yes, the VOX remote allows IR channel settings. I have two Bolts and a Premiere in the same room, so I've set them all to non-zero IR channels to avoid having multiple boxes respond when any remote drops to IR. One feature that TiVo did right.


----------



## mickrussom

CloudAtlas said:


> View attachment 43626
> 
> .


*hard pass* if the new horrible ui experience is not avoidable. no te3 = no purchase. if hard drive isnt trivially upgradeable also a pass.


----------



## krkaufman

celtic pride said:


> I wonder why if i have to pay more for the cable edge i dont get the lux remote?


The cable EDGE *is* more expensive than the OTA model, but the OTA model has a bigger price difference from its BOLT-equivalent, yes?



celtic pride said:


> If i buy the lux remote i assume it will work with the cable edge?


I can't imagine not.


----------



## angelsix

scottfll954 said:


> I dont get it .. from an EX tivo user ..but still interested
> Why would you spend 15.00 a month for service when comcast is 10.00 (I have comcast)
> I dont see the benefit of the EDGE


One-click ad skipping is awesome.
Comcast's 500gb maximum storage is, in the age of HD (and coming 4k) ridiculously small. X1 Cloud DVR I'm actually unhappy at the Edge's limit of 2TB.
Cable cards & wires are, for me, definitely among life's lesser irritations.


----------



## seaninde

angelsix said:


> One-click ad skipping is awesome.
> Comcast's 500gb maximum storage is, in the age of HD (and coming 4k) ridiculously small. X1 Cloud DVR I'm actually unhappy at the Edge's limit of 2TB.
> Cable cards & wires are, for me, definitely among life's lesser irritations.


Comcast's compressed feed for their X1 cloud DVR is horrible. Most people have no idea what a really good TV picture looks like. 
Plus the X1 interface is just terrible. I don't want thumbnail pics of everything. When I tried X1 the comcast guy told me the horrible picture was the best I was going to get with their compressed signal. I had him take it back and kept my old Motorola box which is crystal clear, gorgeous picture. There is no way comcast can get a great picture with that much compression.
You need a local drive based DVR, so Tivo fits the bill.


----------



## mschnebly

angelsix said:


> One-click ad skipping is awesome.
> Comcast's 500gb maximum storage is, in the age of HD (and coming 4k) ridiculously small. X1 Cloud DVR I'm actually unhappy at the Edge's limit of 2TB.
> Cable cards & wires are, for me, definitely among life's lesser irritations.


I think that the reason for a small 500gb storage is most of the stuff is on OD so no real need to record everything.


----------



## compuguy

seaninde said:


> Comcast's compressed feed for their X1 cloud DVR is horrible. Most people have no idea what a really good TV picture looks like.
> Plus the X1 interface is just terrible. I don't want thumbnail pics of everything. When I tried X1 the comcast guy told me the horrible picture was the best I was going to get with their compressed signal. I had him take it back and kept my old Motorola box which is crystal clear, gorgeous picture. There is no way comcast can get a great picture with that much compression.
> You need a local drive based DVR, so Tivo fits the bill.


Sadly most people don't care about picture quality. I've seen a family member watch a movie on FiOS's SD TCM channel (we still don't haven't gottten the HD channel). The picture quality, especially zoomed in for letterbox movies is awful. :weary:


----------



## KevTech

I was looking at the Tivo Blog and what is written about skipmode makes it look like you may not be able to opt out of the ads with Edge.


----------



## krkaufman

KevTech said:


> I was looking at the Tivo Blog and what is written about skipmode makes it look like you may not be able to opt out of the ads with Edge.
> 
> View attachment 43681


I don't read that as precluding the opt-out, just that AutoSkip won't auto-skip the pre-roll ads. If opted-out, the pre-roll ads won't be there for AutoSkip to not auto-skip.


----------



## zubinh

snerd said:


> I will consider upgrading my Bolts to alleviate fears about failure due to poor heat management. Tivo-Ted has stated that the Edge design has much better air flow than the Bolt.


I plugged a small USB fan into the USB port of my Bolt. The fan cost me $3. My fears were alleviated..


----------



## mrsean

One positive that I can say about the Edge is that I read it's peanut remote is backlit.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

mrsean said:


> One positive that I can say about the Edge is that I read it's peanut remote is backlit.


OTA Edge remote is backlit, yes. Cable gets the old vox remote for some reason. (overstock?)


----------



## Mikeguy

Kinda likin' the TiVo Edge logo:


----------



## chicagobrownblue

zubinh said:


> I plugged a small *USB fan* into the USB port of my Bolt. The fan cost me $3. My fears were alleviated..


Could you provide a link please?


----------



## celtic pride

I decided i'm not buying the tivo cable edge until they either include the lux remote or sell it at a resonable price like $19.99 or less! $44.99 is way to high for those bolt remotes.


----------



## dougtv

celtic pride said:


> I decided i'm not buying the tivo cable edge until they either include the lux remote or sell it at a resonable price like $19.99 or less! $44.99 is way to high for those bolt remotes.


You wan't a high quality built remote control with a unique design that has TV/AV universal capabilities that works with all functions of a TiVo with both iR and wireless capabilities along with a built in microphone to give you the ability to have it hear what you want to watch... all for the cost of less than $20? I assume that price should also cover backlit technologies too. 

This is what a $20 remote looks like.


----------



## tarheelblue32

celtic pride said:


> I decided i'm not buying the tivo cable edge until they either include the lux remote or sell it at a resonable price like $19.99 or less! $44.99 is way to high for those bolt remotes.


$20 is not a reasonable price for a Lux remote. But yeah they should have included it with the cable Edge. And they sell the Bolt remotes for $39.99


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

tarheelblue32 said:


> I think I see another typo. It says "Connects up to 12 TiVo Mini devices", but last time I checked you're only allowed 12 TiVo devices on one account, so 11 Minis is the most that you could connect.


The typos that really bother me on that page are "This *all-in one* device *let's* you..." But maybe that's just me. Yeah, it's me.


----------



## dougtv

I personally still prefer the slide keyboards. Keyboard works with all apps. Voice does not still work in other apps unfortunately.

There is no voice to type/keyboard function similar to Apple TV apps & Siri remote etc.


----------



## krkaufman

Pokemon_Dad said:


> The typos that really bother me on that page are "This *all-in one* device *let's* you..." But maybe that's just me. Yeah, it's me.


Yeah, that opening paragraph seemed pretty misleading to me; I could see how someone could read it and think the EDGE could do simultaneous OTA and cable, and would likely support many more streaming apps than it does.

_The TiVo EDGE is the latest addition to the TiVo DVR family. This all-in one device let's you enjoy live, recorded and streaming TV in one powerful device. No more switching from one device to another when the TiVo EDGE has it all! It doesn't matter if you're a cable subscriber or an HD antenna user, TiVo EDGE simplifies the search and brings all of your TV together.

_​_(_I was less offended by the grammatical issues.)


----------



## Craigm

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, that opening paragraph seemed pretty misleading to me; I could see how someone could read it and think the EDGE could do simultaneous OTA and cable, and would likely support many more streaming apps than it does.
> 
> _The TiVo EDGE is the latest addition to the TiVo DVR family. This all-in one device let's you enjoy live, recorded and streaming TV in one powerful device. No more switching from one device to another when the TiVo EDGE has it all! It doesn't matter if you're a cable subscriber or an HD antenna user, TiVo EDGE simplifies the search and brings all of your TV together.
> 
> _​_(_I was less offended by the grammatical issues.)


I agree, very deceptive to the first time buyer. I had to read it twice to understand.


----------



## KevTech

celtic pride said:


> I decided i'm not buying the tivo cable edge until they either include the lux remote or sell it at a resonable price like $19.99 or less! $44.99 is way to high for those bolt remotes.


Have a chat with or call Tivo and ask if you can get the lux remote if your purchase Edge for cable.

They may just include it to get the sale.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

The remote inconsistency between Edge models is weird, but the backlighting on Tivo remotes in the past was a power hog, for not much personal benefit. I turned it off when the batteries needed to be replaced after only ~3 months. Wonder if the light is any better now.


----------



## krkaufman

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The remote inconsistency between Edge models is weird, but the backlighting on Tivo remotes in the past was a power hog, for not much personal benefit. I turned it off when the batteries needed to be replaced after only ~3 months. Wonder if the light is any better now.


You can turn-off the backlighting?


----------



## omelet1978

Question,

For the USB ports on the back, still no word on plugging an external hard drive into it? That would be a useful feature if it was implemented. I currently have a 3TB Tivo Bolt and don't want to lose the space. 

That could get me to update. I do like how they shrunk the design down.


----------



## Wigohwt

omelet1978 said:


> Question,
> 
> For the USB ports on the back, still no word on plugging an external hard drive into it? That would be a useful feature if it was implemented. I currently have a 3TB Tivo Bolt and don't want to lose the space.


This doesn't seem likely soon, and maybe never.

It's possible an Edge will automatically format a 3TB drive like a Roamio and Bolt. Of course, this hasn't been proven yet, as far as I know, and good 2.5" 3TB drives seem to be in short supplies these days.


----------



## aaronwt

So what are the transfer rates like on the Edge? WIth the Bolt it can hit 500Mb/s average throughput with all tuners on an empty channel.
Can the Edge transfer even faster?


----------



## zubinh

chicagobrownblue said:


> Could you provide a link please?


Couldnt find the exact one I bought but this one will work perfectly: https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...QF8MYJARFQ3&psc=1&refRID=9WYQTH4CDQF8MYJARFQ3


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

krkaufman said:


> You can turn-off the backlighting?


https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/How-to-Use-the-Backlight-on-a-TiVo-Learning-Remote


----------



## Mikeguy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/How-to-Use-the-Backlight-on-a-TiVo-Learning-Remote


I'm not quite sure why they say that the backlight on the Slide Pro remote can't be turned off. I thought that it could and pretty much was the same method (to turn the backlight off or back on)--I just re-tested it, and it is, just without the need to press the clear or enter button, at the end.


> *To turn the backlight off*
> 
> Press and hold the *TiVo* and *Thumbs Down *buttons until the activity light flashes three times, and then press *Clear*.
> *
> IMPORTANT*: The backlight on the Slide Pro remote can't be turned off.
> *
> To turn the backlight on*
> 
> Press and hold the *TiVo* and *Thumbs Up *buttons until the activity light flashes three times, and then press *Enter*.


----------



## VicVinegar

If Tivo offered a replacement for my Roamio that can do cable and OTA, maybe they'd have someone looking to upgrade.


----------



## rhoops

seaninde said:


> I would never do lifetime, tech changes way too fast to keep a dvr that long and who knows, Tivo could go under in a few years. Its too much money in my opinion.


I got lifetime service on my 2010 Premiere XL and my 2014 Premiere XL4. Both are still working fine and in daily use. Quite a bargain IMHO.


----------



## MysticVenom

Adam C. said:


> Like what? I have had my Roamio OTA for almost 3 years and I see no need to replace it. Here we are 3 years later, the Edge is now available and I see no technological advances that would entice me to upgrade.


Roamios were really the last good quality hardware. People that have Bolt/Bolt Vox may disagree with that sentiment (4 flashing lights, anyone?). Anyways - I bought 2 Bolt+ on promos with lifetime so it wasn't sooo outrageous price, both failed just under 2yrs in. Replacement of $150 each (still has lifetime). First replacement DOA - replaced again (free this time). 2nd failed after 6 months (4 flashing lights again). Replacement of $150 again. I'm pretty sure the math right now works out cheaper for the yearly plan and $50 replacement *IF* quality is like this again.


----------



## seaninde

MysticVenom said:


> Roamios were really the last good quality hardware. People that have Bolt/Bolt Vox may disagree with that sentiment (4 flashing lights, anyone?). Anyways - I bought 2 Bolt+ on promos with lifetime so it wasn't sooo outrageous price, both failed just under 2yrs in. Replacement of $150 each (still has lifetime). First replacement DOA - replaced again (free this time). 2nd failed after 6 months (4 flashing lights again). Replacement of $150 again. I'm pretty sure the math right now works out cheaper for the yearly plan and $50 replacement *IF* quality is like this again.


That was my argument not to buy lifetime anymore. The hardware is cheap and not meant to last like the old roamios. Remember not everyone has had Tivo forever, some of us are new and only have the new hardware to choose from, so not paying for lifetime for hardware that last 2 years and dies.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

seaninde said:


> That was my argument not to buy lifetime anymore. The hardware is cheap and not meant to last like the old roamios. Remember not everyone has had Tivo forever, some of us are new and only have the new hardware to choose from, so not paying for lifetime for hardware that last 2 years and dies.


I'm certainly glad I did not buy Lifetime/All-In on the Bolt here. What a low-quality piece of plastic. I've ranted about it elsewhere, so I'll restrain myself. But the Lifetime on our Roamio Pro was worth it - it's the best box TiVo's ever produced - and it's about to take over as the sole TiVo server here.

I still have a Premier XL that works just fine and could be reactivated, and I ran two HDs with upgraded hard drives for ten years. Their plastic feet were crumbling, but the electronics were still operating fine. They just don't make 'em like they used to.


----------



## aaronwt

rhoops said:


> I got lifetime service on my 2010 Premiere XL and my 2014 Premiere XL4. Both are still working fine and in daily use. Quite a bargain IMHO.


I'm thinking about firing up my last Premiere, which also has lifetime. I still have a launch Roamio Basic that has always had $6.95 monthly service. So my plan is to swap it out with one of the Lifetime Roamios I gave my GF, the one in her basement she doesn't use very much. Then I can bring that lifetime Roamio Home, and swap out the 3TB hard drive from my monthly Roamio. And get rid of that monthly fee, and just use it for spare parts.

I used to be fine with paying TiVo that $6.95 each month, but now I'm not so sure.
Plus the last time I asked about converting it to lifetime, they wanted me to pay $200. So I turned that down.


----------



## Dambro1978

OrangeCrush said:


> The odd PS4-esque shape misled me into thinking it was about the size of a PS4 from the earlier photos, but it's smaller than I imagined. Smaller than a flattened-out bolt even. I really don't get why they're stubbornly sticking to smaller cases than they need and hamstringing themselves with 2.5" drives as a result.
> 
> And those Fire Stick 4Ks have been going on sale for $25-$35 pretty regularly since Prime Day. They are excellent endpoints for a Channels DVR.


from my experience only thing that matches the tivo smooth live tv playback is hdhomerun software. clunky and hard to navigate as it is. flipping through channel. you can really tell with scrolling menus as on news programs. my experience with plex live channels dvr and hdhomerun. channels has a very nice layout but the newest version of plex isnt bad either


----------



## Mikeguy

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I'm certainly glad I did not buy Lifetime/All-In on the Bolt here. What a low-quality piece of plastic. I've ranted about it elsewhere, so I'll restrain myself. But the Lifetime on our Roamio Pro was worth it - it's the best box TiVo's ever produced - and it's about to take over as the sole TiVo server here.


Lifetimed Bolt box with 2-1/2 years here, and nary an issue. Lifetime already paid off.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

Mikeguy said:


> Lifetimed Bolt box with 2-1/2 years here, and nary an issue. Lifetime already paid off.


Lucky you! Knock-on-wood it will stay that way, and I wish you all the best.

I'm selling mine soon, but only after I get it repaired once it's offline. I wouldn't wish these problems on anyone.


----------



## MysticVenom

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I'm certainly glad I did not buy Lifetime/All-In on the Bolt here. What a low-quality piece of plastic. I've ranted about it elsewhere, so I'll restrain myself. But the Lifetime on our Roamio Pro was worth it - it's the best box TiVo's ever produced - and it's about to take over as the sole TiVo server here.
> 
> I still have a Premier XL that works just fine and could be reactivated, and I ran two HDs with upgraded hard drives for ten years. Their plastic feet were crumbling, but the electronics were still operating fine. They just don't make 'em like they used to.


I so want to believe the Edge hardware will be better, but I'm not jumping in yet. Going to have to let it stew for a while in others' homes and see if they do any upgrade promos. Then maybe sell the Bolts if possible. Both of my Premier XLs are kicking along just fine. My HD died around a year ago. The S3HD died a timely death of caps (was right around when the Premiers came out). My S2 got retired kicking and screaming that it wasn't done yet (sold it to someone else for OTA, use IIRC).


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

MysticVenom said:


> I so want to believe the Edge hardware will be better, but I'm not jumping in yet. Going to have to let it stew for a while in others' homes and see if they do any upgrade promos. Then maybe sell the Bolts if possible. Both of my Premier XLs are kicking along just fine. My HD died around a year ago. The S3HD died a timely death of caps (was right around when the Premiers came out). My S2 got retired kicking and screaming that it wasn't done yet (sold it to someone else for OTA, use IIRC).


Good idea. After the Bolt, I'm certainly no longer the big fan and early adopter I once was. Let's wait and see.


----------



## b_scott

here's what I don't get - why is All-In more for cable boxes over Antenna boxes? You're just paying for guide data for either one. It should cost the same. Why does "what the input is" matter?


----------



## JoeKustra

b_scott said:


> here's what I don't get - why is All-In more for cable boxes over Antenna boxes? You're just paying for guide data for either one. It should cost the same. Why does "what the input is" matter?


Just guessing, but those with OTA never have cable card or Tuning Adapter problems. Guide problems are actually easier to fix with cable than OTA changes.


----------



## pfiagra

b_scott said:


> here's what I don't get - why is All-In more for cable boxes over Antenna boxes? You're just paying for guide data for either one. It should cost the same. Why does "what the input is" matter?


TiVo_Ted's response to this question:
TiVo Edge (Series 7 DVR for Cable)


----------



## b_scott

pfiagra said:


> TiVo_Ted's response to this question:
> TiVo Edge (Series 7 DVR for Cable)


not a great response. So, they lowered it because they can, yet the cable users get screwed just because they can charge that price since it compares to the boxes they're supposedly selling you against.



JoeKustra said:


> Just guessing, but those with OTA never have cable card or Tuning Adapter problems. Guide problems are actually easier to fix with cable than OTA changes.


Yeah I don't think so. I almost never had any cable card issues with my prior Tivos, but even if I did they already have people they employ that deal with these rare occasions.


----------



## slice1900

b_scott said:


> not a great response. So, they lowered it because they can, yet the cable users get screwed just because they can charge that price since it compares to the boxes they're supposedly selling you against.


Welcome to the world of business.

If you don't like that, think about it in terms of the amount of guide data being provided. OTA customers receive far fewer channels so there is less guide data being provided to them.


----------



## krkaufman

Interesting nugget from TiVo_Ted...


TiVo_Ted said:


> One thing that has changed is that Edge does not have a blue light on the front to indicate transfers in progress. You should still see the transfers in your To Do List with a blue dot next to them when they are transferring.


----------



## Mike Campbell

I received my new Edge OTA yesterday and set it up this morning. Compared to my old Roamio the setup was amazingly fast. I think I'll move it into the den and put the Roamio in the bedroom.


----------



## Wigohwt

krkaufman said:


> Interesting nugget from TiVo_Ted...


Yeah, I caught that. Bad enough with the wrong color on the Bolt, and now nothing at all...


----------



## buildersboy66

Wigohwt said:


> Yeah, I caught that. Bad enough with the wrong color on the Bolt, and now nothing at all...


Not a big deal, just monitor the to do list.


----------



## Wigohwt

buildersboy66 said:


> Not a big deal, just monitor the to do list.


NBD? What's next, no Red LED?

That transfer LED is supposed to be blue. TiVo: Well then, no transfer LED now!
Only one LED for recordings? I miss the Multi-LED. TiVo: Well then, no recording LED now!


----------



## krkaufman

Wigohwt said:


> NBD? What's next, no Red LED?
> 
> That transfer LED is supposed to be blue. TiVo: Well then, no transfer LED now!
> Only one LED for recordings? I miss the Multi-LED. TiVo: Well then, no recording LED now!


Yeah, the transfer LED is a nice feature, but its removal maps to TiVo's demoting transfer controls to TiVo Online with TE4, the only software available for an EDGE.

The multiple LEDs for recording status are great, but what DVRs included that feature?


----------



## Wigohwt

krkaufman said:


> Yeah, the transfer LED is a nice feature, but its removal maps to TiVo's demoting transfer controls to TiVo Online with TE4, the only software available for an EDGE.


Yes, but while watching TV (or passing by), isn't nice to see if the transfers are still going?
Besides, for whatever reason, I like it.



krkaufman said:


> The multiple LEDs for recording status are great, but what DVRs included that feature?


That's the point, TiVo is supposed to offer better than other DVRs.
But I admit, having multiple LEDs on such a small box could be problematic, but still would be nice if possible.


----------



## Mikeguy

It's all the $$, baby. Unfortunately, that can be taken to the extreme that part of the experience is lost. I still miss TiVo-guy's face.


----------



## mrsean

Why is Tivo trying so hard to be.....not Tivo? I don't get the idea of eschewing everything that made you stand out. 

New CEO and Design lead should be terminated.


----------



## snerd

mrsean said:


> Why is Tivo trying so hard to be.....not Tivo?


Peer pressure.


----------



## ShoutingMan

How fast / responsive is the UI on the edge compared to a Roamio?

I bought my Roamio in 2013 and compared to recent AppleTV’s the UI is feeling sluggish. Streaming apps like Netflix and YouTube are painful to use. But its core strength of being a TiVo DVR remain champs. I’m wondering if upgrading to an Edge would be worth it just for an improved user experience from a speedier UI? 

The pricing gives me great pause, with a lifetime Roamio that’s literally paid for itself in full, and uncertainty if I’ll still watch CableTV in three years. But we love our TiVo and would enjoy an improved experience.


----------



## Mikeguy

ShoutingMan said:


> How fast / responsive is the UI on the edge compared to a Roamio?
> 
> I bought my Roamio in 2013 and compared to recent AppleTV's the UI is feeling sluggish. Streaming apps like Netflix and YouTube are painful to use. But its core strength of being a TiVo DVR remain champs. I'm wondering if upgrading to an Edge would be worth it just for an improved user experience from a speedier UI?
> 
> The pricing gives me great pause, with a lifetime Roamio that's literally paid for itself in full, and uncertainty if I'll still watch CableTV in three years. But we love our TiVo and would enjoy an improved experience.


Personally, with a Lifetimed box, I probably wouldn't make a move, and especially without a TiVo promotion.* Instead, if anything, I'd get a Roku or other stick, where the experience still reigns supreme. But your own usage will control.

* And even with a past TiVo promotion, I still didn't "update" my Roamio box to a Bolt box--I didn't know that I wanted to spend the ~$300 cost ($99 to transfer Lifetime, plus ~$200 for the Bolt box) for mostly a snappier interface, mostly on the app side.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

ShoutingMan said:


> How fast / responsive is the UI on the edge compared to a Roamio?
> 
> I bought my Roamio in 2013 and compared to recent AppleTV's the UI is feeling sluggish. Streaming apps like Netflix and YouTube are painful to use. But its core strength of being a TiVo DVR remain champs. I'm wondering if upgrading to an Edge would be worth it just for an improved user experience from a speedier UI?
> 
> The pricing gives me great pause, with a lifetime Roamio that's literally paid for itself in full, and uncertainty if I'll still watch CableTV in three years. But we love our TiVo and would enjoy an improved experience.


IMHO the Roamio line was the best TiVo ever produced, and it's been all downhill since then. If you want to try an Edge, I'd at least wait until they get the bugs out of that very new device. (There are many; follow the Edge issues thread(s) here.) Meanwhile, yes, the Roamio streaming apps have "aged out", but the apps in our Fire TV sets and Fire TV Stick 4K have been excellent replacements. They are far faster and will likely remain up-to-date far longer than the same apps on a TiVo box. I still have a Roamio at the center of our DVR system, but all our streaming is Fire TV now.


----------



## buildersboy66

ShoutingMan said:


> How fast / responsive is the UI on the edge compared to a Roamio?


Compared to Bolt I believe the Bolt is faster.


----------



## compnurd

buildersboy66 said:


> Compared to Bolt I believe the Bolt is faster.


The Bolt was around 100% faster then the Roamio at tasks. The Edge is probably 25-50% faster then the Bolt and it will probably increase as they change the software to better support it


----------



## pspens

lucidrenegade said:


> Confirmed by Ted to be TE4 only.


I keep seeing references to TE3 and TE4. Can someone enlighten me as to what these are? I've heard of Series 3 and Series 4... related?


----------



## lhvetinari

pspens said:


> I keep seeing references to TE3 and TE4. Can someone enlighten me as to what these are? I've heard of Series 3 and Series 4... related?


TE3: HDUI/Encore - the old interface. Premier and Roamio style.

TE4: Hydra/Mira - new interface. Compatible with Roamio, default on Bolt (downgradeable) and Edge (not downgradeable)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KevTech

pspens said:


> I keep seeing references to TE3 and TE4. Can someone enlighten me as to what these are? I've heard of Series 3 and Series 4... related?


The TE means *T*ivo *E*xperience.


----------



## Wigohwt

lhvetinari said:


> default on Bolt (downgradeable*)


*Except for Bolt VOX OTA.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

pspens said:


> I keep seeing references to TE3 and TE4. Can someone enlighten me as to what these are? I've heard of Series 3 and Series 4... related?


As you've seen in other replies, not related.

You may find the abbreviations glossary useful for stuff like that: https://www.tivocommunity.com/community/i...

For more on series models, see TiVopedia:

*Series3 Models *
TiVo Series3
TiVo HD
TiVo HD XL
*Series4 (Premiere) *
TiVo Premiere
TiVo Premiere XL
TiVo Premiere4
TiVo Premiere Elite / XL4
*Series5 (Roamio) *
TiVo Roamio
TiVo Roamio OTA
TiVo Roamio Plus
TiVo Roamio Pro
*Series6 (BOLT)*
TiVo BOLT
TiVo BOLT PLUS
TiVo BOLT VOX
TiVo BOLT VOX 3TB
TiVo BOLT OTA

The EDGE is Series 7.


----------



## JoeKustra

More information (including Edge):
https://support.tivo.com/articles/FAQ/TiVo-Service-Number-and-Model-Number-Table


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

JoeKustra said:


> More information (including Edge):
> https://support.tivo.com/articles/FAQ/TiVo-Service-Number-and-Model-Number-Table


Funny how their own chart does not include the series numbering information, yet their TiVo+ announcement used the term "Series 6". It's like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. (Also, the left hand probably meant to write "Series 6 and later", but that's another discussion.)


----------



## JoeKustra

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Funny how their own chart does not include the series numbering information, yet their TiVo+ announcement used the term "Series 6". It's like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. (Also, the left hand probably meant to write "Series 6 and later", but that's another discussion.)


In System Information, why no space between Series and the number? More weird things.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

JoeKustra said:


> In System Information, why no space between Series and the number? More weird things.


Companies need to adopt standard terminology and stick to it. Even a small difference like that can hurt search engine optimization and marketing results, and adversely impact translation and localization for global markets (because without guidance vendors may translate "Series 6", but just copy "Series6" which many users won't be able to read).


----------



## Phil T

Noticed Edge for cable is out of stock this AM.


----------



## Mikeguy

Phil T said:


> Noticed Edge for cable is out of stock this AM.


TiVo_Ted said a few days ago that it was being taken off-of-sale until the current cable issue with it is fixed.


----------



## southerndoc

Mikeguy said:


> TiVo_Ted said a few days ago that it was being taken off-of-sale until the current cable issue with it is fixed.


What issue is that where they need to pull it?


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

geekmedic said:


> What issue is that where they need to pull it?


Tuning adapters aren't working, but apparently they figured it out.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

geekmedic said:


> What issue is that where they need to pull it?


Tuner adapter incompatibility:



TiVo_Ted said:


> Clearly our QE testing fell short here. I have placed Edge for Cable out-of-stock until we have validated a fix for this. If you are having a tuner adapter issue, please call TiVo customer support to report your issue. This will get you to the front of the queue when we publish a fix for this issue. I am also working on a concession to soften the pain of being an early adopter here. I will post an ETA for the fix as soon as we have one.


----------



## cuibap0

Does Dobly Vision work with Sony TV? XBR-940E.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

cuibap0 said:


> Does Dobly Vision work with Sony TV?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Depends on the model. It's in new high-end Sony models, and it was added as a firmware update to other recent permium Sony models, but if made before 2016 it's unlikely to ever get that update. My big Sony is older than that, is not an Android model, and came with Dolby Digital, Digital Plus, and Pulse, but probably won't get further updates. However I've recently added an Anthem preamp which does support Dolby Vision.


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## cuibap0

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Depends on the model. It's in new high-end Sony models, and it was added as a firmware update to other recent permium Sony models, but if made before 2016 it's unlikely to ever get that update. My big Sony is older than that, is not an Android model, and came with Dolby Digital, Digital Plus, and Pulse, but probably won't get further updates. However I've recently added an Anthem preamp which does support Dolby Vision.


It's for the XBR-940E. Thanks

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Pokemon_Dad

cuibap0 said:


> It's for the XBR-940E. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


That model received Dolby Vision in a January 2018 firmware update. So if you've kept it updated, you've got it.


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## cuibap0

Pokemon_Dad said:


> That model received Dolby Vision in a January 2018 firmware update. So if you've kept it updated, you've got it.


Sorry that is incorrect. I read more about it. Tivo Edge doesn't support the Dolby Vision level 5 profile yet which is used by the Sony TV. So for now, I will wait till TiVo updates the edge with full support DV on Sony TV before I order it

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## compnurd

cuibap0 said:


> Sorry that is incorrect. I read more about it. Tivo Edge doesn't support the Dolby Vision level 5 profile yet which is used by the Sony TV. So for now, I will wait till TiVo updates the edge with full support DV on Sony TV before I order it
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Probably going to be waiting a long time


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## Pokemon_Dad

cuibap0 said:


> Sorry that is incorrect. I read more about it. Tivo Edge doesn't support the Dolby Vision level 5 profile yet which is used by the Sony TV. So for now, I will wait till TiVo updates the edge with full support DV on Sony TV before I order it
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


My statement is not incorrect. The TiVo EDGE is incorrect.


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## cuibap0

compnurd said:


> Probably going to be waiting a long time


Probably but the Tivo_Ted guy mentioned in the other thread that the Edge will support Sony TV low profile DV. They have the firmware and are testing it. Will see. Apple took less than a week to issue the new firmware so I don't think it will take TiVo too long.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## compnurd

cuibap0 said:


> Probably but the Tivo_Ted guy mentioned in the other thread that the Edge will support Sony TV low profile DV. They have the firmware and are testing it. Will see. Apple took less than a week to issue the new firmware so I don't think it will take TiVo too long.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Big user base size difference there


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## bodosom

cuibap0 said:


> Will see. Apple took less than a week to issue the new firmware so I don't think it will take TiVo too long.


I suspect you're correct but not based on what Apple did. It took OPPO months to support Profile 5 via YCC. Apple always used Profile 5 -- initially via RGB. If TiVo is sensibly using Profile 5/RGB Sony users can hope for a speedy update. If they used Profile 4 it could be more challenging. But it all depends on various things.


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## pspens

lhvetinari said:


> TE3: HDUI/Encore - the old interface. Premier and Roamio style.
> 
> TE4: Hydra/Mira - new interface. Compatible with Roamio, default on Bolt (downgradeable) and Edge (not downgradeable)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. I'm still on the Premier, so I've never seen TE4.


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## b_scott

slice1900 said:


> Welcome to the world of business.
> 
> If you don't like that, think about it in terms of the amount of guide data being provided. OTA customers receive far fewer channels so there is less guide data being provided to them.


Luckily I don't have to worry about it. A FireTV is $35.


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## gamo62

I have the Bolt, and can't see spending that much money for an incremental upgrade. Sure it adds Atmos and Dolby Vision, but my Bolt has HDR. And the fact that it only comes max with a 2TB hard drive? No. I'm good.


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## PJFW8

I agree. I.m on my second Bolt (hard drive). When this fails, I will look at Edge seriously.


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## Sparky1234

PJFW8 said:


> I agree. I.m on my second Bolt (hard drive). When this fails, I will look at Edge seriously.


My Bolt+ is rock solid. Records 6 channels a lot. Not moving forward to TE4 so Edge is out. I might be on my last TiVo upgrade. I'm still using Roamio Pro and multiple Premiere XL.


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## porkenstein

I bought a TiVo bolt and it was such a piece of that sh#t That’s the last TiVo I will buy. It had a lifetime service and quit in a year. No video output. I have had a TiVo since the original series 1 and I will never buy another one. Just my opinion that the quality has gone down so much. I do still have a two tuner Premier this still working great. Will look for another option from now on


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## Wigohwt

porkenstein said:


> I bought a TiVo bolt and it was such a piece of that sh#t That's the last TiVo I will buy. It had a lifetime service and quit in a year. No video output. I have had a TiVo since the original series 1 and I will never buy another one. Just my opinion that the quality has gone down so much. I do still have a two tuner Premier this still working great. Will look for another option from now on


I presume you're to disappointed in TiVo to even try to call them and see if you can get a free/cheap replacement with lifetime transfer.


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## porkenstein

That was the first thing I did and it’s out of warranty and they were no help at all.


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## Mikeguy

CSR roulette sometimes can work.


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## Pokemon_Dad

porkenstein said:


> I bought a TiVo bolt and it was such a piece of that sh#t That's the last TiVo I will buy. It had a lifetime service and quit in a year. No video output. I have had a TiVo since the original series 1 and I will never buy another one. Just my opinion that the quality has gone down so much. I do still have a two tuner Premier this still working great. Will look for another option from now on


I'll second @Mikeguy's recommendation of CSR Roulette. But failing that, you're more than welcome to join us over on the TiVo Alternatives thread!


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## porkenstein

I had Dish Network at one time and I am thinking of going back to that. It's actually kind of crazy and of no real use but the Hopper 3 DVR from Dish Network has 16 tuners. Not sure what to do. I guess I can try and call and get another csr. I might be tempted to buy the Tivo Edge but with such poor build quality on the Bolt in my opinion anyway I am shy to try another Tivo product. If anything I think I would pick up a used Roamio 4 or 6 tuner used. I had a 4 tuner before and loved it.


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## Pokemon_Dad

porkenstein said:


> I had Dish Network at one time and I am thinking of going back to that. It's actually kind of crazy and of no real use but the Hopper 3 DVR from Dish Network has 16 tuners. Not sure what to do. I guess I can try and call and get another csr. I might be tempted to buy the Tivo Edge but with such poor build quality on the Bolt in my opinion anyway I am shy to try another Tivo product. If anything I think I would pick up a used Roamio 4 or 6 tuner used. I had a 4 tuner before and loved it.


As I often say, the Roamio series were the last great TiVos ever made. After my bad Bolt experience and the broader changes to TiVo since they got Rovied, I don't have high hopes for the Edge. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I've already moved to Fire TV for 4K streaming, and am testing an OTA/IPTV TiVo replacement system. Impressive results so far with HD HomeRun and Channels.


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## tarheelblue32

porkenstein said:


> I had Dish Network at one time and I am thinking of going back to that. It's actually kind of crazy and of no real use but the Hopper 3 DVR from Dish Network has 16 tuners.


It would have been really nice if TiVo could have made the Edge be an 8-tuner cable DVR. But alas, there is no way they are ever going to get the cable companies to update their CableCARDs to support 8 tuners.


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## rtoledo

CloudAtlas said:


> TiVO stopped selling 3TB Bolts because Western Digital stopped making the 3TB drives due to problems. There were bad batches of the WD 3TB drive that made it into the Bolts. Everyone blamed heat but it was a WD problem.
> 
> Also for 98% of TiVo's customers the 2TB is fine. TiVo's not making design decisions based on the ability to swap in larger hard drives. So bizarre that people think this way.


Laughing hard , as I have gotten older I have found this to be VERY true:
*"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."*

― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman


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## rtoledo

TostitoBandito said:


> Not sure why anyone would give Tivo money for this given the lack of support for the Bolt ecosystem. Especially when it comes to 4K/HDR and app support. Apps are very limited and out of date due to the OS they use, and there's no Dolby Vision support on the Bolt despite there being no technical reason I'm aware of why it can't support it. Unless major architectural changes have been made, I'd expect more of the same on the Edge. Pretty frustrated with Tivo as someone who paid like $600 for a lifetime Bolt as an all-in-one 4K box which it never even came close to being even years later.
> 
> Also, the huge Disney+ launch is soon and I doubt Tivo is going to have any app support for it on any generation (or at least I've seen zero indication that they will). So enjoy your already-obsolete streaming cable box.


This is my BIGGEST problem with Tivo. is LACK OF new apps, I own 2 Bolts and 2 mini's. I want to have apps like the PRIME , Netflix, Hulu etc. I am interested in apps for MANY other streaming companies, this is the thing that will keep me waiting to see. Otherwise I will buy a Roku for 99.00 that unit has apps for every company out there. IF I could get a app for channels like Hallmark , TLC , the food network Channel , even for PBS , Paramount , Lifetime etc. I can NOT stand regular channels with commercials. I noticed Tivo just added something called Tivo+ this new " app " is not ready for Prime Time as it locks up , if this is their new vehicle to add future channels like the ones I mentioned, then I will stay tuned. as it is my second Bolt is de-activated because of nothing new to watch on new apps

I think this Edge is butt ugly like the Bolts. and we tweakers will undoubtedly upgrade those drives within a weak , so I don't care about that. the 2 extra cores BUT @1.8 just plain SUCKS IMO. also my second Bolt I now use with OTA antenna hooked to it to watch TV in the Los Angeles area . WHY did they pull the OTA antenna port from this new unit ?

IF the Spectrum DVR I have had apps like the Tivo , they would go in the closet in a heart beat .


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## Aaron Malloy

At least the Edge is superior from a cosmetic standpoint compared to the Bolt. For ugliest electronic unit design, nothing will ever beat the spina bifida plagued Bolt.


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## Wigohwt

rtoledo said:


> This is my BIGGEST problem with Tivo. is LACK OF new apps, I own 2 Bolts and 2 mini's. I want to have apps like the PRIME , Netflix, Hulu etc.


Disney+ just the latest to drop.


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## Aaron Malloy

rtoledo said:


> This is my BIGGEST problem with Tivo. is LACK OF new apps, I own 2 Bolts and 2 mini's. I want to have apps like the PRIME , Netflix, Hulu etc.
> .


My old Roamio OTA 500 GB unit has those apps, so I'm surprised the newer units don't.


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## Lenonn

My parents had a TiVo HD in which the hard drive failed. When asked what to do, I told them to avoid the newest TiVo model and just get a new drive. I won’t be responsible for forcing (pre-roll) ads on them.


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## Pokemon_Dad

Lenonn said:


> My parents had a TiVo HD in which the hard drive failed. When asked what to do, I told them to avoid the newest TiVo model and just get a new drive. I won't be responsible for forcing (pre-roll) ads on them.


You might also want to recommend a warrantied Roamio or Premier from Weaknees. Those units may be the last great DVRs that TiVo will ever produce, plus they will roll back to TE3 and avoid all the new ads.


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## rtoledo

Wigohwt said:


> Disney+ just the latest to drop.


Where do I find the Disney app for the Tivo ?


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## mpf541

You won't find the Disney app for the Tivo. And if you did the first time Disney updated the app on the TiVo would never get the update. While I would like the apps on TiVo to be good I have realized that the only way to get up to date apps is to use them on my TV to an Apple TV. These are devices that continue to get app updates. 

I like TiVo as a dvr. It excels at that. But as far as all these apps they keep adding I will use what is on my TV as it is just a better experience. Maybe someday TiVo will figure out that when they add an app to the TiVo they need to maintain it. But they just say it is up to the developer of the app.


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## rtoledo

mpf541 said:


> You won't find the Disney app for the Tivo. And if you did the first time Disney updated the app on the TiVo would never get the update. While I would like the apps on TiVo to be good I have realized that the only way to get up to date apps is to use them on my TV to an Apple TV. These are devices that continue to get app updates.
> 
> I like TiVo as a dvr. It excels at that. But as far as all these apps they keep adding I will use what is on my TV as it is just a better experience. Maybe someday TiVo will figure out that when they add an app to the TiVo they need to maintain it. But they just say it is up to the developer of the app.


THANKS , I think the consensus is that since the current owner of Tivo is out to make money sueing the same company's that can block Tivo's future , we won't get new apps mostly due to that.
my smart TV has the same apps Tivo has, plus a few more , but I must admit it's already 7 years old.


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## Mikeguy

rtoledo said:


> THANKS , I think the consensus is that since the current owner of Tivo is out to make money sueing the same company's that can block Tivo's future , we won't get new apps mostly due to that.
> my smart TV has the same apps Tivo has, plus a few more , but I must admit it's already 7 years old.


The way I see people explain it is, TiVo just doesn't have the user numbers to convince many streaming companies to develop an app for TiVo (the streaming companies do it, not TiVo), and that the TiVo process/structure also introduces further complications.


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