# Sad day for Tivo Service



## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Just recently I phoned to cancel my Tivo subscription, as I had moved to Dish Network from Cable and had a DVR 932 installed. Anyhow when I phone Tivo support they told me that it was possible to get the TIVO I had working with the Dish Network receiver, I didn't see the point and asked to cancel. Anyway as soon as I put the phone down my wife chimed in and said you could use it in the bedroom as that dish network receiver has no DVR. Thinking this was a great idea I immediate phoned Tivo back to reactivate me canceled account. To my horror Tivo declined to reestablish my account and it monthly fee which was lower than the normal 12.95 per month and insisted it was too late to undo the cancel, I was flabbergasted as a customer of 4 years that within the space of 5mins they refused to reopen my old account. I asked to speak to a supervisor to no avail and insisted that I was paid up to the end of the month, but no matter how I asked they refused to reopen my account which was in my mind still warm. This has amazed me that they would treat a customer this way and run a policy of immediate cancels that cannot be undone after 5 mins. (


Peter Conn


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## keith021773 (Jan 15, 2005)

Peter,

Customer service isn't what is used to be. I really wish that companies would stop and think that the only reason they are in business is because of the customer. But, I can't change the world. 

Anyway, there are a couple of guys in here that work for Tivo. Maybe one of them will read this post or you can search for them on here and they can help you. Hope all works out.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Thanks, I hope they do, I sent an email to Steve, but have not heard back yet.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Try tivoJerry. Steve may still be on maternity leave.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

There must be more to the story.

_To my horror Tivo declined to reestablish my account and it monthly fee which was lower than the normal 12.95 per month....._
What does this mean ? $12.95/month is the going rate right now.

_...insisted that I was paid up to the end of the month...._
Maybe it's still active till the end of the month, call back Feb. 1st and see if they'll re-activate everything then.

Did they try to lock you in for 12 months at $12.95/month ? I heard that's what they do now. You have to agree to keep the account open for 12 months.


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## arc6th (Jun 26, 2002)

The thought "We could hook the TiVo DVR up to another TV!" never crossed your mind? Wow.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

I'm wondering if the reduced fee and the cancel/reopen in 5 minutes caused the CSR to put him in the "high maintenance" category. And/or thought this was a ploy to get it reduced even more?


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## Coasterfan (Sep 22, 2004)

This story doesn't surprise me. I was told I would be charged $12.95 instead of $6.95 a month when I went to add my third Tivo unit a few months ago. They said I don't have a unit at the higher rate on my account now and the multi Tivo rate does not apply. I told them I will stick with Tivo basic for free. They are losing $6.95 a month because of being greedy. Looks like you are running into a similar problem.


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## arc6th (Jun 26, 2002)

BMW just lost $10,000 because they wouldn't sell me a 330Ci for $10,000. BMW is so greedy!


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## ChuckyBox (Oct 3, 2005)

There was a time when people were reporting success at getting a lower rate by threatening to cancel their service. The OP may be one of those who succeeded. My guess is that it is TiVo policy not to do that any more, and so the CS people are trained to take a hard line on those accounts.

That said, since the OP's account is still active, and the cancellation wouldn't be effective until the end of the month, I think TiVo should just leave his account the was it was and "forget" about the cancellation.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I would think that part of the provision for getting the reduced rate would be that if you ever went through with canellation after the deal was made, the offer comes off the table. I don't know why someone who is paying $6.95mo. would be in a hurry to cancel, but live and learn.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Your right I had a $6.95 deal, but it wasn't the ability to hook up to another TV that got me . As I used to have a multi Tivo account with two TVs, it was that the Tivo could be hooked up in front of a Dish Network box. So after putting the phone down I phoned back immediate and was told the account was dead the minute I said to cancel even though it was paid up to the end of the month. Plus I paid well over the one time subscription deal as a 4 year old customer.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

techaholic said:


> Your right I had a $6.95 deal, but it wasn't the ability to hook up to another TV that got me . As I used to have a multi Tivo account with two TVs, it was that the Tivo could be hooked up in front of a Dish Network box. So after putting the phone down I phoned back immediate and was told the account was dead the minute I said to cancel even though it was paid up to the end of the month. Plus I paid well over the one time subscription deal as a 4 year old customer.


Ahhh....I see you've come to the source of your problem. :down:


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Basically is it fare for Tivo to delete a paid up subscription, that is canceled and then when asked to revise that (albeit bad decision) within 5 mins, refuse to allow the customer to have his old account back. (too late mate, you are dead, gone, deceased, do not compute, do we know you.  )


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

As I understood it, they would resubscribe you, but at the same rate that most others pay. Is that correct?


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Yes they wanted to resubscribe at the 12.95 rate, but due to the 5 min duration of my cancelled account, and as it was paid up to the end of the month, it seems unfair to me that the existing account cannot be reactivated. 5mins and paid up to the end of the month should be good factors to have what was already in place brought back. Plus all the good business I have given Tivo over the last 4 years should count for something under these circumstances.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

techaholic said:


> Plus all the good business I have given Tivo over the last 4 years should count for something under these circumstances.


Oh everyone here says that. I've sold 14 to immediate friends at last count and helped thousands of new users on the help forum.

But in the grand scheme of things, having to go back to the same price as most folks (for whatever reason) doesn't strike me as grossly unfair.


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## mick66 (Oct 15, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> That said, since the OP's account is still active, and the cancellation wouldn't be effective until the end of the month, I think TiVo should just leave his account the was it was and "forget" about the cancellation.


Active? no it's been cancelled by the OP. Cancelations are effective immediately regardless of how much paid time is left.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Sound like your just jealous I had a good deal, and you are now satisfied that I have been brought into line, albeit on a technicality.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

Hmm.

You've called to complain before and got your monthly fee reduced (to a point that is likely at a loss for them.)

You changed to Dish without checking compatibility of your current equipment AND didn't verify that you would still be getting a DVR from them.

You called to cancel without verifying that you were making a prudent decision.

You called back to undo the cancel and they were willing to continue your account at the going rate.

You THEN start posting on a Tivo message board about how unfairly you've been treated.

Yep you've been mistreated.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

techaholic said:


> Sound like your just jealous I had a good deal, and you are now satisfied that I have been brought into line, albeit on a technicality.


Me? No.

It was you who brought up the issue of fairness. That's why I had to ask if I really understood the situation. It seemed a little bizarre given the circumstances and even more so now given the response above.

However, if it makes you feel better to think I might be jealous, then please feel that way.


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## JasonD (Mar 30, 2003)

Heck,

Just pay the lifetime membership and be done with it. That way there will never be any misunderstandings.  

Good luck I hope Tivo changes their mind and reactivates you at the prefered price.

Jason


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

My first call was not to complain, I called to cancel. I got offered a reduced rate. Which I took.

Then after a month of the reduced rate I called to cancel as I didn't think or check that I was going to be able to use the reduced rate Tivo with my new setup.

So then I cancelled the reduced rate Tivo, it was the immediate, no grace time cancelling that I deem to be bad customer service, especially as it's paid for till the months end. I tried to change my decision (5 mins), and lost out, but I do not think being treated that way is cool customer service.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

Might not be. but it's a good business decision.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

dgh I was only kidding. Just felling sorry for myself.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

techaholic said:


> dgh I was only kidding. Just felling sorry for myself.


Well I can understand feeling sorry for yourself. You negotiated a special deal. Canceled, changed your mind and couldn't renegotiate the special deal - probably because, based on recent experience, they're now expecting you to call them about once a month and that's going to cost them more than the $6.95 you want to pay.

But that's as far as my understanding goes - sorry. On fairness and good customer support, I can't agree.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

techaholic said:


> ...then I cancelled the reduced rate Tivo, it was the immediate, no grace time cancelling that I deem to be bad customer service, especially as it's paid for till the months end. I tried to change my decision (5 mins), and lost out, but I do not think being treated that way is cool customer service.


Good grief, man....what do you think they should do. Give you 5 minutes grace?...15 minutes?...30 minutes?....60 minutes?....one hour?....two hours?....four hours?....eight hours?.....24 hours?

Where do they draw the line? It's a business, for crying out loud, not a nursery school.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Good Grief, at least untill the paid up subcription is over, come on, the contract is still in good order. When I cancelled my cable, they said we don't give refunds so your account will be active until the months end, so why can't Tivo play by those rules. Might as well send an email flyer round to all customers with the 6.95 deal, "Please cancel, we will save money".


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

TiVo's rules are stated in the service agreement. Sorry but it's better to check stuff like that over sooner rather than later. I agree that TiVo's cancellation policies are not as nice as your cable company's but hopefully you've known that for years. 

Besides you've called to cancel twice now. Surely you know them by now. 

That said, if you had negotiated your cable co. down to half price and done the same thing, their policies probably don't guarantee that you'd still get the special rate. At some point, too many calls and cancellations becomes too expensive for anyone to give you half off.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

techaholic said:


> Good Grief, at least untill the paid up subcription is over, come on, the contract is still in good order. When I cancelled my cable, they said we don't give refunds so your account will be active until the months end, so why can't Tivo play by those rules. Might as well send an email flyer round to all customers with the 6.95 deal, "Please cancel, we will save money".


TiVo policy on cancellation is completely unfair and it has been like that for a very long time. Most providers of monthly service will either give you prorated refund or will let you use service till the end of the paid period. I can't think of anybody else but TiVo that has such a draconian cancellation except perhaps some scam type memberships. Everybody I ever done business with on monthly basis (phone companies, utilities, cable, satellite, health clubs etc.) will either refund unused portion or let you use service till end of paid period. But OP haven't told the whole story - it is even worse than what he thinks it was going to be. If he decided to go ahead and restore his service he would have to agree to 1 year minimum contract as well. All this for 5 minutes lapse in service. To be fair, there are some other companies that have lousy policies. I remember few years ago I called AT&T to change the cell plan. Then 5 minutes later I called to change it back just to find out that my contract has been extended for 1 year. Needless to say that I'm no longer with AT&T and will never use their service again. To OP:
Never mind what others tell you - you are right, TiVo cancellation policy sucks, but look at bright side of things. Dish doesn't work well with TiVo anyhow. You'd have all kinds of problems with IR blaster (most likely will need to build a fort), with receiver turning off or locking on a channel. Besides PQ with TiVo is not even close to what you get with Dish DVR. If you need an extra DVR just do yourself a favor and get 50X from Dish. And did you know that 942 is multi-room and has dual output and because remote is RF you can run both of your TVs from 942?


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Bierboy said:


> Good grief, man....what do you think they should do. Give you 5 minutes grace?...15 minutes?...30 minutes?....60 minutes?....one hour?....two hours?....four hours?....eight hours?.....24 hours?
> 
> Where do they draw the line? It's a business, for crying out loud, not a nursery school.


They shouldn't give him any "grace" period - they should run his service till end of the period he paid for. That would be just fair for both - business and consumer. But TiVo stops service the second you tell them and this is bunch of crap.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

samo said:


> Dish doesn't work well with TiVo anyhow. You'd have all kinds of problems with IR blaster (most likely will need to build a fort), with receiver turning off or locking on a channel.


Integrated is easier but "all kinds of problems" is a huge overstatement based on my experience. I have about one IR misread every 18 months on my Dish/TiVo setup. I haven't had the stupid Dish channel lock in over 5 years.

Most of the people I know are using TiVo with Dish and I'm their TiVo (and Dish) guru and no one complains to me about Dish/TiVo integration problems after the first couple of days. And those are only because it usually takes two passes through Channels I receive to get every one of those stupid locking channels turned off.

But I agree that this is probably all for the best, He's cancelled twice in a month already and wanted to cancel the cancel 5 minutes later. I'll bet he wouldn't want it so much if they hadn't told him he couldn't have it.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

TiVo obviously realized the mistake giving such kinds of one-off special offers and has since changed their policy.

You were only at that rate a month dude. Not like it was years or anything.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

samo said:


> TiVo policy on cancellation is completely unfair and it has been like that for a very long time. Most providers of monthly service will either give you prorated refund or will let you use service till the end of the paid period. I can't think of anybody else but TiVo that has such a draconian cancellation except perhaps some scam type memberships. Everybody I ever done business with on monthly basis (phone companies, utilities, cable, satellite, health clubs etc.) will either refund unused portion or let you use service till end of paid period. But OP haven't told the whole story - it is even worse than what he thinks it was going to be. If he decided to go ahead and restore his service he would have to agree to 1 year minimum contract as well. All this for 5 minutes lapse in service. To be fair, there are some other companies that have lousy policies. I remember few years ago I called AT&T to change the cell plan. Then 5 minutes later I called to change it back just to find out that my contract has been extended for 1 year. Needless to say that I'm no longer with AT&T and will never use their service again. To OP:
> Never mind what others tell you - you are right, TiVo cancellation policy sucks, but look at bright side of things. Dish doesn't work well with TiVo anyhow. You'd have all kinds of problems with IR blaster (most likely will need to build a fort), with receiver turning off or locking on a channel. Besides PQ with TiVo is not even close to what you get with Dish DVR. If you need an extra DVR just do yourself a favor and get 50X from Dish. And did you know that 942 is multi-room and has dual output and because remote is RF you can run both of your TVs from 942?


LOL! I was a long-time Dish subscriber who switched to Tivo (using my Dishplayer as a tuner) and then DirecTV. Dropped Dish as soon as the DP finally bit the dust and found I could get an integrated dual-tuner Tivo for far less. Briefly tried a 508, but that's another story.

Dish PVRs sound so much better on paper then they are in reality - as buggy as it was for some, the DishPlayer was the first/last reliable DVR Dish has had.

If Charlie had made a deal with Tivo, instead of DTV, I'd still be Dish subscriber.

Given your location and the tone of your post, I suspect you're an Echostar employee ...


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Puh-lease. Our IR blaster makes like one mistake a year.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Thank you samo, well said, at least there is one poster here that is not blind to Tivo's bad service pratices. 

Yes the 942 will do exactly that, so lets see how long the Tivo business model flies, you can keep your service......


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

samo said:


> They shouldn't give him any "grace" period - they should run his service till end of the period he paid for.


 But he cancelled....cancelled....cancelled. What part of that word don't you understand? Cancel means "to declare null and void." Translation (for those who don't understand plain English)...IT'S OVER, FINISHED, CAPUT. End of service -- as of that moment (not end of the month).


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Then that means refund for the period left.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

jfh3 said:


> LOL! I was a long-time Dish subscriber who switched to Tivo (using my Dishplayer as a tuner) and then DirecTV. Dropped Dish as soon as the DP finally bit the dust and found I could get an integrated dual-tuner Tivo for far less. Briefly tried a 508, but that's another story.
> 
> Dish PVRs sound so much better on paper then they are in reality - as buggy as it was for some, the DishPlayer was the first/last reliable DVR Dish has had.
> 
> ...


Wrong on all accounts. 50X DishDVR is rock solid after initial bugs have been taken care off. I don't work for E* (but this is a number one speculation that new TiVo converts make about me - so you are in a good company ) and as a matter of fact I switched to DirecTV a few months ago. And yes, DirecTiVos are fine and R-15 will be even better than DirecTiVo after all the bugs are taken care off. But Dish DVRs are fine and to some extent I like them better that DirecTivo. My preference, feel free to disagree. Either DirecTiVos or Dish DVRs are superior choice to SA TiVos for satellite subs - both in quality and subscription cost. OP has 942 model that is HD DVR and it is great multi-room DVR that is not available from anybody else. Even HD DirecTiVo has only one output.
Say all you want, but unless you used both DVRs for substantial period of time after all bugs have been fixed - you don't know what you are talking about.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

ThreeSoFar said:


> Puh-lease. Our IR blaster makes like one mistake a year.


And it is one too many.  Your milage will vary, but it does depend on lot of factors - IRD used with TiVo, location of the blaster and so on. The only way I could make my to work reliably was to build a fort, but channel changes were so slow that I switched to DishPVR as soon as one became available and never looked back.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Bierboy said:


> But he cancelled....cancelled....cancelled. What part of that word don't you understand? Cancel means "to declare null and void." Translation (for those who don't understand plain English)...IT'S OVER, FINISHED, CAPUT. End of service -- as of that moment (not end of the month).


And could you please name me one (JUST ONE!) reputable company besides TiVo that handles cancellation of service same way TiVo does (instant termination and no prorated refund).


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Channel changes? I never see those.

I did replace the TiVo IR blaster with a Xantec emitter instead, which did improve the accuracy. And no need for a fort. It's behind the TV barely visible to any external light sources.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

samo said:


> And could you please name me one (JUST ONE!) reputable company besides TiVo that handles cancellation of service same way TiVo does (instant termination and no prorated refund).


Phone companies do it all the time; and he never said he asked for a prorated refund.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

samo said:


> And could you please name me one (JUST ONE!) reputable company besides TiVo that handles cancellation of service same way TiVo does (instant termination and no prorated refund).


Aw come on, he's not even complaining about that except as some kind of convoluted excuse to keep his $6 discount going. Besides, he was "paid up to the end of the month" (which is tomorrow) and he can just pull the phone line and keep using the TiVo for another 13 days or so.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

Now we've heard - 

THE REST OF THE STORY.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

Bierboy said:


> Phone companies do it all the time; and he never said he asked for a prorated refund.


Not a good example - with phone companies you get final bill that is prorated based on a last day of use. Try again.
And true, he never asked for prorated refund. Doesn't mean he would get it. TiVo policy specifically states that they don't refund any portion of the monthly fees. It doesn't matter if it is second day or last day of billing cycle - "no refund for you".


> Aw come on, he's not even complaining about that except as some kind of convoluted excuse to keep his $6 discount going. Besides, he was "paid up to the end of the month" (which is tomorrow) and he can just pull the phone line and keep using the TiVo for another 13 days or so.


And I'm not trying to address this particular user's experience. TiVo cancellation policy is unfair in general. But with this particular user it is also stupid. It costs TiVo $300 to secure a new subscriber. First thing they do when you call to cancel is to offer you $6 off just to stay. Churn rates are up and it doesn't look good for their SEC filings. And what do they do when guy calls back in 5 minutes to restore the service? Apparently if you are still a subscriber they send you to customer retention department to give use some kind of the deal, but the second you canceled they don't consider you a subscriber anymore. Stupid policy in my book.
PS. Just an example from Dish (and by no means Dish has good CS). When I called to cancel they tried to give me 3 months of service free, and after I declined the offer guy put the note on my account that if I ever decide to come back the offer still stands and activation will be free. Guess what? Few weeks later I decided to restore some of the international channels. I didn't come back for a full package, but they are getting at least some money from me that they wouldn't get if they didn't extend the original offer past cancellation time.


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## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

techaholic said:


> Thank you samo, well said, at least there is one poster here that is not blind to Tivo's bad service pratices.
> 
> Yes the 942 will do exactly that, so lets see how long the Tivo business model flies, you can keep your service......


Trust me, there are plenty here that feel the way you a samo do. It's just that we don't post often, unlike the numerous fanboys/girls who always have something to say about how great TiVo is and that they can do no wrong. They will insist that TiVo is best thing ever created, and that TiVo is doing YOU a favor for even allowing you to be their customer. Others want new laws created so that content companies are forced to make their devices compatible with TiVos just so that goofy looking cartoon TV can be pushed into more households. If TiVo can't sell it's product on it's own merits, then they suck as a company. There's no other way to put it.

Here's an idea: Try to sell the box to a friend or colleague (make sure they don't already have TiVo). Tell them that you'll offer the box really, really cheap ($10-$20), but sock it to 'em that they will have to pay $13 a month, and be locked in for a year if they want the "privilege" of using it. I guarantee that this will turn them off of the TiVo brand. One bonified and one potential customer lost. Nice job TiVo!! :up:  

...


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

samo said:


> TiVo policy specifically states that they don't refund any portion of the monthly fees.


Oooo! Reading the service agreement. That's cheating! Reading it before signing up would be doubly cheating! 



samo said:


> Churn rates are up and it doesn't look good for their SEC filings.


The OP doesn't want investor friendly, he wants "fair" - meaning half off for him. 



samo said:


> Stupid policy in my book.


Well get yourself a PVR company and run it right! It seems to me like you've had and canceled just about everything there is so if anyone knows how to do it, it should be you.

Maybe you could get together with Fixer and Mojodeal? (Just kidding.)


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

:sigh: typical reaction to a newbie, and typical reaction to samo's posts, which I usually find very reasonable. 
Weren't we just talking about this in another thread? 

TiVo's cancellation policy sucks. There's really no defending it, other than dgh's, "Well you should've read the terms" defense. Yeah, we all should have read the terms. How many of us did? Our bad? Fine, but it's not out of the ordinary to expect that, if TiVo won't give a pro-rated refund, they will at least allow service until the already paid for time period expires. That is fair, and while TiVo may have no ethical or legal obligation to be fair, being fair is generally a good idea, IMNSHO. 

TiVo is eating it's cake and having it too with this policy. And if other companies do it, they suck too. The only excuse we've ever been given by TiVo employees is that their software is too stupid to allow service to run out on a cancelled account, and that fixing that problem isn't a priority. 

But very little of that is really related to the OP's dilemma. 
Yep, the OP should have thought things through more carefully before he called to cancel. Yep, I'd agree that TiVo owes him nothing, and I have no problem at all believing that even if someone at TiVo wanted to reactivate his account, the software doesn't allow for it. 
So my response to the OP is, "Wow, that sucks. I hate it when I get burned like that. Oh well, live and learn. Make the best of your new Dish PVR. If it turns out to not be all it's cracked up to be, you can always get back in to TiVo - they're cheaper now than ever, and the upcoming S3 sounds pretty neat." 

It's too bad that TiVo couldn't accommodate the OP. Then everyone in this thread could shout three cheers for TiVo. Maybe it would cost TiVo too much to be accommodating, I don't know, but not accommodating him clearly has a cost. 
I sincerely hope TiVo is making the right choice, and I sincerely hope the OP enjoys his Dish PVR.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Crrink said:


> :sigh: typical reaction to a newbie, and typical reaction to samo's posts, which I usually find very reasonable.
> Weren't we just talking about this in another thread?


Yep. All the regular players are turning out too 



Crrink said:


> But very little of that is really related to the OP's dilemma.


Agreed.

Note, however, that Samo is using the trick of reading the agreement to prove that he wouldn't have gotten what he didn't ask for even if he did. So Samo's as guilty of reading as I am. But like you said, doesn't really apply anyway.



Crrink said:


> It's too bad that TiVo couldn't accommodate the OP. Then everyone in this thread could shout three cheers for TiVo. Maybe it would cost TiVo too much to be accommodating, I don't know, but not accommodating him clearly has a cost.
> I sincerely hope TiVo is making the right choice, and I sincerely hope the OP enjoys his Dish PVR.


Cheers? Well since he brought up "fair", if TiVo were running according to my whims, there wouldn't be the discount for people who cancel/pretend to cancel in the first place. Then the OP would have cancelled one month earlier, TiVo would have been out $6 but ahead by the cost of two support calls, and we wouldn't have had this thread. That would be *my* dream PVR company but I don't have one either.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

I've certainly been guilty of overzealous support of TiVo in the past, and probably will be again. Their CS in this instance was certainly lacking. But as bad off as it seems they are, and as many screwups of _their own_ that they seem to have to fix lately, I can see why they'd decide this was too small a fish to spend any cycles on, to mix my metaphors a bit.

But I've had a *lot* of problems with the way they've been running things of late.

Hoping they don't die now. Used to be I was confident they wouldn't.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

dgh said:


> ...snip...
> Cheers? Well since he brought up "fair", if TiVo were running according to my whims, there wouldn't be the discount for people who cancel/pretend to cancel in the first place. Then the OP would have cancelled one month earlier, TiVo would have been out $6 but ahead by the cost of two support calls, and we wouldn't have had this thread. That would be *my* dream PVR company but I don't have one either.


I'd have no problem with the way you would run your dream PVR company - that sounds o.k. to me.
I assume that TiVo believes that retaining a customer, even at half the normal rate, is still a good thing for them, so I have no problem with the policy. It's up to TiVo, and I would have a very hard time criticizing them for being more generious than they have to be, unless I really believed it were hurting the company, but like I said, I'm sure they have some basis for believing the customers are worth retaining.

And FWIW, I gather from the OP's posts that he isn't a person who threatened to cancel only to get the discount - I think he called to cancel for real each time.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Crrink said:


> I'd have no problem with the way you would run your dream PVR company - that sounds o.k. to me.
> I assume that TiVo believes that retaining a customer, even at half the normal rate, is still a good thing for them, so I have no problem with the policy. It's up to TiVo, and I would have a very hard time criticizing them for being more generious than they have to be, unless I really believed it were hurting the company, but like I said, I'm sure they have some basis for believing the customers are worth retaining.
> 
> And FWIW, I gather from the OP's posts that he isn't a person who threatened to cancel only to get the discount - I think he called to cancel for real each time.


True, but since he has called twice in a month since getting the rate halved, he could have easily moved himself into a position where he is no longer affordable. Besides, there's an excellent chance that once the TiVo is moved into the bedroom, and he realizes there's no phone jack or the disk makes noise, or his wife makes another comment, or he decides that Samo is right and that DishDVRs are glorious, that he'll cancel yet again. Maybe with a few more bounces.

I agree with the last part - that's why it's probably not worth trying hard to retain him. He has already truly decided to cancel twice. These last two times he was talked out of it, once by a TiVo rep and then by his wife. He's really on the edge here and at some point certain customers start costing more than you can realistically hope to make back from them. Of course, everyone's judgment as to when that line is crossed is going to be different. I'm saying someone at TiVo may have made that judgment. I have no idea if it will turn out to be correct. I just understand the guess.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

techaholic said:


> My first call was not to complain, I called to cancel. I got offered a reduced rate. Which I took.
> 
> Then after a month of the reduced rate I called to cancel as I didn't think or check that I was going to be able to use the reduced rate Tivo with my new setup.
> 
> So then I cancelled the reduced rate Tivo, it was the immediate, no grace time cancelling that I deem to be bad customer service, especially as it's paid for till the months end. I tried to change my decision (5 mins), and lost out, but I do not think being treated that way is cool customer service.


so they got rid of a reduced rate account and jumped at the chance. Your TiVo will work past the end of the month most likely.

now you are likely to sell or give the TiVo to someone else who will pay the 12.95 a month.

their are customers you work hard to keep and others you don't. Sure TiVo needs every customer they can get but there is the business decision to tier customers based on revenue and so forth as well.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

samo said:


> It costs TiVo $300 to secure a new subscriber. First thing they do when you call to cancel is to offer you $6 off just to stay. Churn rates are up


cough ** 178$ is the yearly average cough cough. Still swinging facts around to your point of view? Do they offer everyone 6$ off first Thing ? are Churn rates up?


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

What Bull, I paid $12.95 for 3.5 years $554, then I paid $21 for 6 months $126, that's $680 Duh! I think I've bought a little more respect from Tivo then they are willing to give. Look at Walmart, one of the biggest damn businesses out there, and why? they have low prices and great customer service, 90day return policy. Tivo sucks if all you guys can muster is that it's OK to be unfair to long term customers because it good for the bottom line. We/me are their bottom line and a customers good will is very important to a service orientated business IMHO. Spending a few bucks to make a customer happy can be far more rewarding than spending dollars on adverts.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

OK OK TiVo sucks. See? This was a win-win situation. 

Seriously, if you keep bringing up "unfair" about how your special price didn't survive the second canceling of the service, then I just can't take it seriously. You need a more appropriate buzzword.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

techaholic said:


> ...I think I've bought a little more respect from Tivo then they are willing to give....


You don't "buy" respect; you earn it.


techaholic said:


> ...Look at Walmart...they have low prices and great customer service...


Hooo hooo, I needed a good laugh. Thanks!


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Ok drop unfair, I've paid a life time subcription amount more than twice over. So the dumbest thing to do here is not pay for a life time subcription or Tivo will not hesitate to short change you when they can.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

techaholic said:


> or Tivo will not hesitate to short change you when they can.


you mean by offering you 6$ off the first time you called to cancel


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

techaholic said:


> Ok drop unfair, I've paid a life time subcription amount more than twice over. So the dumbest thing to do here is not pay for a life time subcription ...


Absolutely - the TiVo monthly fee is not "rent to own". It's just rent. It doesn't stop any more than the cable fees or any other rental stops. When I got my cable box in 1985, I could tell it was designed for the 1970s since it had wood-grained plastic and all that 70s stuff. When I returned it to the cable office in 1999, I saw people walking out with the exact same box. And the next day, I'm sure someone got mine. That's the way the rental business works: you make some investment upfront, taking a little risk, and hopefully in long run keep raking in the money. The cool thing with TiVo is that you get the choice to take the upfront risk yourself and hopefully save a lot of money in the long run, or you can let TiVo Inc do that.

I always recommend lifetime and I have been for years now.



techaholic said:


> or Tivo will not hesitate to short change you when they can.


Hmm... I gotta go with Zeo on this part.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

CRRINK said it very well

TiVo's cancellation policy sucks. There's really no defending it, other than dgh's, "Well you should've read the terms" defense. Yeah, we all should have read the terms. How many of us did? Our bad? Fine, but it's not out of the ordinary to expect that, if TiVo won't give a pro-rated refund, they will at least allow service until the already paid for time period expires. That is fair, and while TiVo may have no ethical or legal obligation to be fair, being fair is generally a good idea, IMNSHO. 

TiVo is eating it's cake and having it too with this policy. And if other companies do it, they suck too. The only excuse we've ever been given by TiVo employees is that their software is too stupid to allow service to run out on a cancelled account, and that fixing that problem isn't a priority. 

But very little of that is really related to the OP's dilemma. 
Yep, the OP should have thought things through more carefully before he called to cancel. Yep, I'd agree that TiVo owes him nothing, and I have no problem at all believing that even if someone at TiVo wanted to reactivate his account, the software doesn't allow for it. 
So my response to the OP is, "Wow, that sucks. I hate it when I get burned like that. Oh well, live and learn. Make the best of your new Dish PVR. If it turns out to not be all it's cracked up to be, you can always get back in to TiVo - they're cheaper now than ever, and the upcoming S3 sounds pretty neat." 

It's too bad that TiVo couldn't accommodate the OP. Then everyone in this thread could shout three cheers for TiVo. Maybe it would cost TiVo too much to be accommodating, I don't know, but not accommodating him clearly has a cost. 
I sincerely hope TiVo is making the right choice, and I sincerely hope the OP enjoys his Dish PVR.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

techaholic quoting CRRINK said:


> CRRINK said it very well
> 
> But very little of that is really related to the OP's dilemma.





techaholic quoting CRRINK said:


> Oh well, live and learn. Make the best of your new Dish PVR. If it turns out to not be all it's cracked up to be, you can always get back in to TiVo - they're cheaper now than ever, and the upcoming S3 sounds pretty neat.


I think those are the key phrases.

Of course, I think we also know that the following part was a fairytail.



techaholic quoting CRRINK said:


> It's too bad that TiVo couldn't accommodate the OP. Then everyone in this thread could shout three cheers for TiVo.


techaholic had a TiVo for four years and didn't register at this forum until he had a complaint. If it had all gone to his liking, I'm 99.9% certain that we would have never heard of it. No thread, no cheers. Not that there's anything wrong with that 

I sincerely hope you enjoy your DishDVR too, though I've got to warn you: my customer service experience with Dish has been going downhill lately. I'm much happier with TiVo right now. I hope Dish can turn that around.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Actually if you get the right tech it can be the best thing since sliced bread. I had an issue the other day and the tech I got was superb.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

I guess I've never gotten that one. Note that even Samo, who many thought was a Dish employee because he liked them so much, doesn't use them anymore. He agreed with me in another recent thread that their support has gone downhill.

Anyway, I do hope you continue to have better luck with them than I've been having. I'm going to re-evaluate content providers when the S3 comes out.


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## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

techaholic said:


> as I put the phone down my wife chimed in and said you could use it in the bedroom as that dish network receiver has no DVR.


This is the best part of the whole post  . He couldn't think of a better use of his Tivo until his "wife" chimed in. What kind of tivo owning man are you? Christ, no wonder Tivo didn't want to deal with you again. 

Just kidding around...

Y-ASK


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

As a dutiful spouse, I was trying to save a buck or two, and when the wife gave me open consent to spend $$$ on technology I didn't need to think twice and jumped at the opportunity. As I had sold her on the 942 replacing both Tivo's. She had not remembered this fact and invited me to keep my reduced rate Tivo account. Which  those bast%rd took away from me. Look you've got me going again!!! nuff said LOL


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Here's a (slightly cynical) thought: Maybe if you sign up again, in three or four months you can cancel and maybe it will work again for you. No guarantees of course. I have no clues about the inner workings of their cancellation policies, but it's possible that only a "retention specialist" can do this for you. I know when I cancelled cable years ago, they transferred me to their "retention specialist" who could do far more for me than then the people I got when I merely complained 

I my case that made me even more annoyed at the cable co. (doesn't match my ideals of doing business) but it sounds like this might be good for you.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

I was hoping this thread would stay active long enough (are you listening Tivo) and catch there eye to get my situations reversed.... It's done quite well so far


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Aw geeze, I feel so dirty. 

Well good luck with that!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

techaholic said:


> I was hoping this thread would stay active long enough (are you listening Tivo) and catch there eye to get my situations reversed.... It's done quite well so far


TiVo will not be reaching out to a thread to give you a special reduced rate. Nice try but that would generate way too many "me too" threads.

sorry to say you gave TiVo the chance to turn off one of those reduced rate accounts that had them doing manaul exception type junk in their system to make sure the system gave you the reduced rate.

they accepted the offer to cancel that special rate just as quickly as you accepted the intial offer to do the reduced rate.

there is little on the Horizon product wise for TiVo and Satellite so it looks like Dish DVR is your option. Best bet would really be to not worry about the 6$ - sell the TiVo for whatever you can get and put a DISH DVR back there anyway.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

I'm just hoping that Crrink is still reading.



Crrink said:


> :sigh: typical reaction to a newbie,


Crrink's view: Poor little newbie, yearning to be a productive member of the TCF, only to be faced with the horror that some people strongly disagree with him.

techaholic's view: Playing us like a fiddle to get $6 off the twice-canceled bedroom TiVo. Apparently the only use he's had for us in 4 years of TiVo ownership.

I admit it - I'm easily amused.


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## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ...there is little on the Horizon product wise for TiVo and Satellite so it looks like Dish DVR is your option. Best bet would really be to not worry about the 6$ - sell the TiVo for whatever you can get and put a DISH DVR back there anyway.


[sarcasm]
Good job trying to keep the customer Mr. Zeo!!! TiVo Corp. desperately needs you as part of it's marketing team. Are you interested??
[/sarcasm]

...


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

How about giving back my special as I've paid over $600 (plus two Tivo's) for Tivo service over the last 4 years, and I am prepared to continue paying it to continue at the reduced rate. Would it be so economically bad for Tivo to keep me on.....?


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

techaholic said:


> How about giving back my special as I've paid over $600 (plus two Tivo's) for Tivo service over the last 4 years, and I am prepared to continue paying it to continue at the reduced rate. Would it be so economically bad for Tivo to keep me on.....?


Possibly, since you've already shown that you'll cancel pretty easily. Also the term "barking up the wrong tree" may apply here. Here's a quote of the bottom of every page on this forum (emphasis mine.)

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. 
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission. 
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. *This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc. *


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

dgh said:


> I'm just hoping that Crrink is still reading.
> 
> Crrink's view: Poor little newbie, yearning to be a productive member of the TCF, only to be faced with the horror that some people strongly disagree with him.
> 
> ...


I'm here, but I forgot about this thread for a couple of days.

Hey, I never said I knew all the poor, mistreated OP's were solid guys wanting to be productive members here, but I figure I owe a stranger with a problem the benefit of the doubt. Doesn't cost much to give it, so why not?

And if I were in the OP's shoes, I'd be bummed out. I wouldn't feel that TiVo treated me unfairly, however, but I would wish they could do me a favor and un-do the cancellation. 
Yes, dgh, even though that'd be the second (or is it third?) favor they'd be doing for me. As the OP has pointed out, TiVo has collected quite a bit in fees from him over the years, so it would be nice, IMO, if they could be gracious. 
I still suspect that more than half the reason they're not being gracious is because there is no way for their software to un-cancel a person, but even so, I have no problem at all with their decision.

I do continue to think they ought to fix the unfairness of their cancellation policy, but all that would get the OP is a couple more weeks of service, which I don't think would be very satisfactory, so it's a non-issue in this case.


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## JasonD (Mar 30, 2003)

dgh said:


> Here's a (slightly cynical) thought: Maybe if you sign up again, in three or four months you can cancel and maybe it will work again for you. No guarantees of course. I have no clues about the inner workings of their cancellation policies, but it's possible that only a "retention specialist" can do this for you. I know when I cancelled cable years ago, they transferred me to their "retention specialist" who could do far more for me than then the people I got when I merely complained
> 
> I my case that made me even more annoyed at the cable co. (doesn't match my ideals of doing business) but it sounds like this might be good for you.


Good ideal dgh except of course he'd have to sign up for a year and a day because of Tivo's new service agreement. Although it would be a cool experiment to try go for a year and a day then call up to cancel and see what Tivo says


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

JasonD said:


> Good ideal dgh except of course he'd have to sign up for a year and a day because of Tivo's new service agreement. Although it would be a cool experiment to try go for a year and a day then call up to cancel and see what Tivo says


Darn. I keep forgetting that. Everyone I know is on lifetime. Sorry.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

> This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.


That doesn't mean that Tivo is not watching. This is a great forum, and the traffic alone means Tivo is looking and listening to this forum and its opinions on there performance and products.


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## dgh (Jul 24, 2000)

Crrink said:


> but I figure I owe a stranger with a problem the benefit of the doubt. Doesn't cost much to give it, so why not?


I have no issue with you having the policy but I also have no issue with others not having that policy. Quite a few people only seem to feel that they owe polite people on the Internet. I think that's an OK policy too. It might even have some benefits. Then again, I think some people just respond instinctively matching the tone. That's, well, probably kind of natural. (techaholic: this was not about you.)


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

dgh said:


> I have no issue with you having the policy but I also have no issue with others not having that policy. Quite a few people only seem to feel that they owe polite people on the Internet. I think that's an OK policy too. It might even have some benefits. Then again, I think some people just respond instinctively matching the tone. That's, well, probably kind of natural. (techaholic: this was not about you.)


You could be right about that, but in my early days here I was often grouched at for being unhappy with a TiVo problem (don't know if you remember the old, old Channel 23 problem), and that irritated me. And I often see the same few posters responding the same way to anybody that has a problem with TiVo, well warranted or not.
So that's what makes me cranky. 
Not that anybody cares


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Well, what ever side you took in my bid to be treated fairly with regards to the cancellation and reactivation of my Tivo account. I want everyone to know that Tivo does have a heart "Like the Tin Man", and that I am once again a happy Tivo customer       . I would like to thank all posters :up: and readers of this board for helping me make my case.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Fixer said:


> [sarcasm]
> Good job trying to keep the customer Mr. Zeo!!! TiVo Corp. desperately needs you as part of it's marketing team. Are you interested??
> [/sarcasm]
> 
> ...


so you agenda seems to be to dispute whatever I say. in other threads I "defend" TiVo - oh Zeo is just a zealot
in this, and some other threads, I see the best option for this person to be sell the TiVo and use Dish - and then you have to get all sarcastic about that as well.

on the plus side Ican see that nothing will please you and I really do not have to care about that then.


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## briguymaine (Mar 17, 2004)

ChuckyBox said:


> There was a time when people were reporting success at getting a lower rate by threatening to cancel their service. The OP may be one of those who succeeded. My guess is that it is TiVo policy not to do that any more, and so the CS people are trained to take a hard line on those accounts.
> 
> That said, since the OP's account is still active, and the cancellation wouldn't be effective until the end of the month, I think TiVo should just leave his account the was it was and "forget" about the cancellation.


A couple of weeks ago I called to cancel one of my accounts, truly, I wasn't phishing around for a lower rate. I just got tired of paying for the second box which would still be functional for our needs as a Basic unit. The CSR talked me into keeping the second account and they'd lower it to $6.95. They would have kept the single account at $12.95, so for around a dollar more a month I have two fully functional boxes. So they are willing to work to keep customers, to some extent.


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## frayedend (Feb 9, 2006)

Okay, this is totally unethical to do, but when the OP made the realization that he screwed up he should have waited for Tivo to stop working...Then Call Tivo...

Tivo: Hello, Tivo...

OP: My Tivo just stopped working?

Tivo: We show that you cancelled your account...

OP: What, I did not. How could that happen.

then probably a little checking and 

Tivo: Okay we have reactivated your account.

I bet that would have worked. The sad thing with Customer Service today is that if you admit you made a mistake you get nothing. If you blame someone else you get things taken care of. sad but true


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

I have had the need to cancel tivo service twice over the last several years. I agree their policy sucks. They should at the very least have continued service until the cycle was over.

That being said I did inquire about that the first time I canceled, and when determined it would cancel immediately, I called back closer to my billing date. 

Regardless of TiVos cancellation policies in regards to turning service off immediately, not offering pro-rated refunds and blah blah blah, none of that is relevant.

The original poster still called and canceled. They still had to call and re-activate their service. Even if their account had been active to the end of the current month, it would not have changed any of those facts.

And with those facts in hand, the whole thread is hugely pointless, especially in regards to the expectation that they should have given you your discount rate back.

You should have considered the fact that you had a discount rate when you cancelled. You should have reasoned this out beforehand and known that if you ever decided to continue service again it would be at the normal rate. 

It is unfortunate that your wife is more thoughtful than you, but them are the breaks. Lesson learned.


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## techaholic (Jan 30, 2006)

Marksman, you are by far too hard on your customer, being pleasant and nice should extend to more than the "Have a nice day". This is not a prisoner of war camp. We are Tivo, our loyalty and hard earned dollars keep this ship afloat. Great customer service will usually win hands down when there are several service providers on the block. I run a small internet shop and believe me a single unhappy customer and a forum can be your worst nightmare, while a happy customer can speak volumes about how great you are. Looking after your customers and keeping them happy is cheaper and better than advertise for new suckers to get burned out by bad CR.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

techaholic, but they did keep you happy the first time around and gave you a discount. How many times should they keep doing that?


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