# The New Box - A Premiere/Series 4 variant?



## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I have been honestly tempted to replace my Series 3 with a Premiere XL considering the Tivo upgrades. I've been an early adopter of every single Tivo model. However, as tempted as I am, I want to hold out for the new DirectTV Powered by Tivo HD box that is "coming soon."

I'm sure it will be some variant of the Premiere/Series 4 platform with similar software features. The software on the Premiere is still being developed and is presently very slow with all the new trick features so users mostly will switch to "classic" menus until the code is optimized.

I'm sure the software development on the DirectTV powered by Tivo HD box is similarly unfinished. That's got to explain the delay.

I want to get away from cable. The adoption of switched digital video and tuning adapters has made recording unreliable on the Series 3 and Premiere. Obviously this is not a problem with DirectTV. I'm hoping the new DirectTV HD box is the future of television. It's probably better they hold off on it to get it right.


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

dcstager said:


> I'm sure it will be some variant of the Premiere/Series 4 platform with similar software features.


According to Tivo and Directv it will be a Directv HR24 with the old Tivo UI on it. Not the new Premiere UI.


----------



## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

HiDefGator said:


> According to Tivo and Directv it will be a Directv HR24 with the old Tivo UI on it. Not the new Premiere UI.


Has the choice of hardware been officially stated anywhere? The only information I've seen so far is that it would be "a version of the TiVo service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR." It didn't say which one, however.

Unlike the HR24, the HR21/22/23's use the same Broadcomm chipset as the current TiVo HD, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was based on one of those. Ass to that Mr. Rogers publicly stating the new DirecTV software would not be Flash-based, so it will probably be more similar to the current TiVo HD user interface.


----------



## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

The only thing official is that the Tivo CEO announced a month ago at the Premier launch that the new DirecTV model would *not* be using the new Premier UI but instead would be using the "classic" Tivo UI.

As for hardware, there has been nothing official said but inferring what has been said is that it will run on the DirecTV platform. Thus most likely an HR21/22/23 (they are basically the same) or maybe an HR24 but that just came out. There is speculation that the delay could be Tivo wanting to wait for the HR24 to come out but to me that makes no sense if Tivo could have had it out by now on the HR23 hardware (which is the same as the Tivo HD hardware). Be nobody knows and likely nobody ever will unless the whole thing falls apart and they end up suing each other.


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

My guess has always been that Directv dumbed down the hardware in the hr20-23 because they did not intend to license the tivo patents. After signing the new deal with Tivo they were once again allowed to use Tivo patented designs in the new HR24. That's the only reason I can see for Tivo agreeing to wait on the hr24 and make it the only supported directivo platform. 

I also suspect that Tivo has limited RD resources today. They may have simply not had the manpower to allocate full strength to the premiere, virgin, rcn, comcast, and directv all at the same time.


----------



## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

HiDefGator said:


> My guess has always been that Directv dumbed down the hardware in the hr20-23 because they did not intend to license the tivo patents.


FYI, the HR20 uses the the same Broadcom chipset as the TiVo Series 3 (BCM 7039 CPU/BCM 7411 Decoder) and the 21/22/23 uses the same Broadcomm chipset as the TiVo HD (BCM 7401 integrated CPU/DECODER). DirecTV went with less expensive Broadcom chipsets for the same reason as TiVo.... to reduce the manufacturing costs of the boxes.


> After signing the new deal with Tivo they were once again allowed to use Tivo patented designs in the new HR24.


DirecTV did not write the DirecTiVo software, so I don't think you're referring to that. As far as any "patented" TiVo software that may or may not be in the HR2x series, the HR2x application platform was first delivered to users in the fall of 2006, over two years before the new agreement was signed, and there is no difference in the features or functionality (except for response speed), whether the HD DVR software is running on an HR20/21/22/23 or HR24.


----------



## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Yep, the software on the HR24 is exactly the same as on the HR20/21/22/23. The only difference between all the models is hardware and thus speed.

HR20 - The original, included OTA tuners
HR21 - HR20 with no OTA tuners
HR22 - HR21 with larger hard drive
HR23 - HR22 with BBC built in
HR24 - HR23 with DECA built in and newer/faster chips

As for the chips, the HR21/22/23 all shared the same chipset I believe. HR20 was different and now the HR24 is different (newer/faster).

But all still run the same firmware/software/UI. Heck, even the non DVRs like the H21/23/24 run the same software as the HR series with just a few differences.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Well, it's not really "the same" as in same bits, but the user experience is the same.


----------



## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

stevel said:


> Well, it's not really "the same" as in same bits, but the user experience is the same.


Oh no doubt. Technically there is for sure some "If HR20 then show OTA tuner menu else don't" and so forth. But yea, the main codebase is the same as is the user experience.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

There are independent software downloads for the different models. I am sure that most of the source code is common, but they are different files, not just alternate code paths.


----------



## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I'd like to know the source of information that the new DirectTV HD Tivo is just going to be new software running on DTV hardware? I'm sure it's possible since Comcast did it with their cable boxes. I'd get the Comcast Tivo box if I could, but I have Time Warner and the GD Tuning Adapter and cablecards. I missed another recording last night, i.e., video unavailable for the Fox Business Channel and so missed Stossel.

Anyway a Series 4 based unit may still be the future of DirectTV's STB. Tivo software for the existing hardware may just bridge the gap, but I (hope) for a cutting edge unit designed by Tivo. If DirectTV had an arrangement with Apple would they settle for just a software port?

Tivo should build and sell a Premiere/Series 4 unit for DirectTV. I nice piece of hardware like that could be a game changer for them. The original Directivo was such a nice piece of hardware. I think a modern updated mpeg4 version would and could be done to great success.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

TiVo has already said that the future DirecTV HD TiVo would not use the same HD interface as the Premiere - that strongly implies to me that the hardware is different. Given how long the new DTiVo has been in development, I'd guess that the hardware is much closer to the HR24 than to the "Series 4".

The HR24 appears to be a very capable and fast box. Maybe it doesn't have the dancing hamster animations that TiVo puts on the Premiere (just kidding), but it is small, attractive and pleasant to use.


----------



## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

dcstager said:


> I'd like to know the source of information that the new DirectTV HD Tivo is just going to be* new software running on DTV hardware*? [...]


You can do a little Googling. Any one of the numerous public statements and filings TiVo has made since September 2008 states exactly that, as recently as the latest 10k they filed with the SEC just 2 days ago.


----------



## TWinbrook46636 (Feb 9, 2008)

HiDefGator said:


> According to Tivo and Directv it will be a Directv HR24 with the old Tivo UI on it. Not the new Premiere UI.


My reaction to that a few months ago would be "Noooooo!" but now I'm saying "Yesssss!"


----------



## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

While obviously it will be a product evolving from Tivo's current direction, and the Premiere is a pretty good indicator of their current direction, whether it is Tivo OS on Tivo or DTV hardware is probably not something that really matters all that much.

It may matter in that there is a slightly increased ability to predict what the box will be like, but it seems a little silly to be all that worried about something we have no control over. It will be what it will be. What we guess or predict it might be is no more than useless time-wasting inconsequential blather.


----------



## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

sluciani said:


> You can do a little Googling. Any one of the numerous public statements and filings TiVo has made since September 2008 states exactly that, as recently as the latest 10k they filed with the SEC just 2 days ago.


The SEC filing is not as clear as you imply.

The Premiere itself doesn't even have a fully working version of the new interface either. It's too slow to actually use and you are stuck with the "classic" interface for the present.

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/100331/tivo10-k.html

"DIRECTV will not deploy new TiVo boxes prior to the launch of the new HD DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service in the future..."

"We have agreed to work with DIRECTV to develop a version of the TiVo service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform which TiVo is working with DIRECTV with the intention to deploy this product to consumers later this year."

Could be the software port is short term, but a Premiere/Series 4 at some point after that is still kicking around.


----------



## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

dcstager said:


> The SEC filing is not as clear as you imply.


Maybe I didn't understand your question. You asked:


dcstager said:


> I'd like to know the source of information that the new DirectTV HD Tivo is just going to be new software running on DTV hardware? [...]


The SEC filing says: _"We have agreed to work with DIRECTV to develop *a version of the TiVo service* for *DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform* [...]"_

The way I read it, that last bit refers to hardware equally capable of running DirecTV's software. Nothing else was agreed to beyond that, as far as I can see.



> "DIRECTV will not deploy new TiVo boxes prior to the launch of the new HD DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service in the future..."


This means DirecTV will no longer deploy new HR10-250's or HDVR2's. I actually read it as saying: "DIRECTV will not deploy *[any]* new TiVo boxes prior to the launch of the new *HD-DIRECTV-DVRs-with-TiVo-service* in the future..."

I believe this line was intended to warn shareholders that there will be *no new DirecTV subs* added prior to the launch of the new TiVo software intended to run on the HD DVR hardware.

As to what "new software" means? Mr. Rogers was quoted here as saying _"Their [DirecTV's] next implementation of us is not going to have this look and feel. It's based on the classic TiVo."_



dcstager said:


> Could be the software port is short term, but a Premiere/Series 4 at some point after that is still kicking around.


That's certainly possible, but to date, I've never seen any public statements that would lead me to believe that.


----------



## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

sluciani said:


> [...] As to what "new software" means? Mr. Rogers was quoted here as saying _"Their [DirecTV's] next implementation of us is not going to have this look and feel. It's based on the classic TiVo."_ [...]


BTW, what I get from this is that the Flash-based Premiere software may not be able to run on the new box for the same reason it can't run on a TiVo HD... insufficient horsepower. If so, that could mean TiVo is porting it to an HR23, which uses the same *Broadcom* chipset as the TiVo HD, rather than the new, speedier HR24, which uses *NXP's* chipset.

Pure speculation on my part, of course, but an explanation that fits the facts.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The HD interface and 1080P are the only advantages to the premiere. There isn't any 1080P content being shown on TV at the moment. If the HD interface doesn't work either, what's the point of upgrading from an S3/HD to a premiere? 

Also, the premiere doesn't work with S cable cards like the S3/HD. Some cable companies aren't offering M cable cards, so the premiere can't be used.


----------



## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> The HD interface and 1080P are the only advantages to the premiere [...]


The HR2x's are 1080p-capable as well. There is some DirecTV PPV and VOD 1080p content available, but as you say, nothing from the broadcasters yet.


----------



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> The HD interface and 1080P are the only advantages to the premiere. There isn't any 1080P content being shown on TV at the moment. If the HD interface doesn't work either, what's the point of upgrading from an S3/HD to a premiere?
> 
> Also, the premiere doesn't work with S cable cards like the S3/HD. Some cable companies aren't offering M cable cards, so the premiere can't be used.


HD Internet content can be 1080p...


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Adam1115 said:


> HD Internet content can be 1080p...


OK, but still hardly seems worth it to upgrade from an S3/HD to a premiere.

The only reason I can see to buy one is if you want a second TIVO and you're elegible for the $200 discount on the lifetime service.


----------



## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

shwru980r said:


> If the HD interface doesn't work either, what's the point of upgrading from an S3/HD to a premiere?


If you like to transfer programs from your TiVo to your PC (or Mac), there's a big point -- the transfer speed has increased dramatically with the Premiere. A 1-hour OTA show that used to take nearly an hour to transfer can now be moved in about 10 minutes. Not everyone uses this feature, but for those that do, that's huge.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

videojanitor said:


> If you like to transfer programs from your TiVo to your PC (or Mac), there's a big point -- the transfer speed has increased dramatically with the Premiere. A 1-hour OTA show that used to take nearly an hour to transfer can now be moved in about 10 minutes. Not everyone uses this feature, but for those that do, that's huge.


OK, that is a compelling reason, if you use that feature.


----------

