# Panasonic Homeplug AV Mini-Review



## weathertop (Jan 24, 2003)

After struggling with transferring recordings from one Tivo to another over an 802.11g network (with Linksys Speedboosters, no less), I recently dispensed with bridged wireless technology and jumped on the Homeplug front. And, with Panasonics implementation of the Homeplug AV spec, I may never look back, especially with HD Tivos coming and the likely file size of HD recordings larger than what wireless networks can bear.

Now, Im transferring fine quality videos across my home LAN at roughly 3 times the speed as my prior wireless network. And setup couldnt have been easier.

For the uninitiated, Homeplug technology has been around for a few years and allows the use of in-home electrical systems as an Ethernet network. With just the addition of adaptors and a router/hub, an easy wired network (using existing electrical wires) can be placed around the home.

Homeplug, though, as suffered for years due to the lower transmission speed of about 10 Mbps when compared to 802.11g networks, that have an effective real world speed of 20 Mbps.

However, the AV spec solves that bottleneck with an advertised (read: Theoretical) speed of 200 Mbps. In real world use, this speed is in the ballpark of 35.4Mbps or greater. Any speed above 30 Mbps is deemed speedy enough to move a HD recording, though.

I purchased Panasonic's implementation of the AV spec, including a set up kit (that includes 2 adaptors), plus an add-on adaptor. The boxes that they came in were nicely packed and an actual paper manual was included. The boxes included the homeplug units and a power cord. Extra patch (ethernet) cables were not included.

The actual units are about the size of a large digital camera (circa 2003).

Set up was a snap. The units in the setup kit were preconfigured to communicate with one another, with one unit configured as the master unit for the network. Adding the additional unit required me to plug both the master unit and the add on unit into the same plug in and pressing a setup button on both. 10-seconds later, the add on unit was configured and encrypted for my own network.

From there, I simply hooked up the units as follows:


Master unit: Ethernet in to my (remaining) Linksys 802.11g router (connected to DSL modem) and plugged into the wall on second floor.
Slave unit #1: Ethernet in to Tivo in second floor master bedroom and plugged into the wall.
Slave unit #2: Ethernet in to Tivo on first floor and plugged into the wall.

Once the master was plugged in, each slave recognized the presence of the network as soon as they were powered up with a lit blue network light.

And, both Tivos could also see the internet. This compares extreeeeemly favorably with the hour that it previously took me to install and configure Svesoft firmware on the prior wireless routers that I had been using to bridge both Tivos wirelessly together.

Once my new network was up and running, I ran the most telling test of this technology  How fast would a recording recorded on fine transfer to my upstairs Tivo? Previously, this transfer would take about 90-100 minutes for an hour long program (60% of real time).

With the Panasonic units, an hour long program recorded on fine quality transfers in 26 minutes (230% or 2.3 times real time). Pretty nifty considering that this network is spread over two floors and our electrical system in our house is about 77 years old. 

So in summary:

*Pros:* 

Truly easy setup  no need to play with firmware to get your network communicating
Configuration that is computer-agnostic (Mac users  rejoice!)
Faster than any other network solution (except maybe Ethernet cabling)
Appears to be very robust (unlike my Linksys routers that needed to be reset every month or so)
No wires to run around the house (like CAT 5 cabling)
No need to place the unit out in the open (like a bridged wireless router), leading to a much cleaner appearance around my Tivos and TVs. This is a nicer outcome than you think...the wife approval factor went way up with this solution now that we don't have purple Linksys antennas poking out in the open in our living room.

*Cons:* 

Spendy solution  The 2-unit starter kit ran $176 and the add-on unit was $129 for about $300 total
Limited geek appeal  No software/firmware to play with
Still a wired solution  but a nicely implemented one
Not really based on the AV spec.as I was writing this up, I discovered that Panasonic didnt implement the actual AV spec, but their own version of it. So, purchasing from Panasonic limits you to only their hardware when expanding your Homeplug AV-ish network.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Very interesting. I'm glad to hear it worked so well for you. When I move next time I'll definitely give HomePlug AV a try before running any ethernet cable.

Dan


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Do your Tivos act like they are on the same network as your computer? I'm worried about not being able to connect to my Tivo to do Tivo to go, butI assume that if the master unit is plugged into the router and my computer is plugged into the same router than it shouldn't be a problem. I have a wired setup now, but I have really long CAT5 patch cables run, and my transfer speeds are barely realtime at "meduim", which is annoying.

Thanks for the report!


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## weathertop (Jan 24, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> Do your Tivos act like they are on the same network as your computer?


Absolutely. They act no differently than if they were wired into my LAN via ethernet directly or bridged in wirelessly using wireless routers with Svesoft's firmware.

They obtain an IP lease from my router (which is connected to the master unit) and instantly were able to see each other for transfers.

One note that I should make, that may be obvious only to some folks: My Tivos are configured to use Ethernet with the Homeplug AV-ish units and are using Linksys USB to Ethernet adaptors.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

Thanks for the review! Re:



weathertop said:


> *Cons:*
> 
> Spendy solution  All 3 units ran $300 total
> Limited geek appeal  No software/firmware to play with
> ...


I never thought about it before but isn't item 4 true of all Homeplug type products; they require multiple units of their own brand to work?

Homeplug A/V prices undoubtedly will drop as soon as more products become available.

Item 2 is a proverbial "feature or bug".


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## tomso (Aug 24, 2004)

TiVo Troll said:


> Thanks for the review! Re:
> 
> I never thought about it before but isn't item 4 true of all Homeplug type products; they require multiple units of their own brand to work?
> 
> ...


Not true. Brands can be mixed as long as they are all compliant with the same Homeplug standard.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

If you like red and silver, Sling has a branded pair of Homeplug units that retail for $99 (you don't need a Slingbox to use them, I just offer it as a nice diagram and for comparative pricing). I've never tried network-over-power before (though in the past I did do telephone-over-power) but I can see it being good some some folks or situations (though not as inexpensive as wireless). If you live in an apartment with unmetered power, as I do, do you think the signal would stay in the unit?

Theoretically, I run a WPA network but my HP printer only supports WEP and I haven't moved it to my router for hardwiring yet... so I'm vulnerable. Don't tell anyone. 



EDIT: Layout.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

tomso said:


> Not true. Brands can be mixed as long as they are all compliant with the same Homeplug standard.


Apparently *Phonex*, which makes the PLC units I use, isn't a member of *Homeplug Powerline Alliance* and uses proprietary standards.


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## tomso (Aug 24, 2004)

TiVo Troll said:


> Apparently *Phonex*, which makes the PLC units I use, isn't a member of *Homeplug Powerline Alliance* and uses proprietary standards.


Actually, the spec sheet (http://www.phonex.com/pdf/NeverWire_14_Spec_Sheet.pdf) says that it _is_ homeplug 1.1 compliant.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> If you like red and silver, Sling has a branded pair of Homeplug units that retail for $99


According to the information page...



> High speed, supporting up to 14Mbps connection


That's a HomePlug 1.1 device. The new HomePlug A/V spec has a maximum throughput of 200Mbps. Although in real world environments you get more like 30-50Mbps.

Dan


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

weathertop said:


> Absolutely. They act no differently than if they were wired into my LAN via ethernet directly or bridged in wirelessly using wireless routers with Svesoft's firmware.
> 
> They obtain an IP lease from my router (which is connected to the master unit) and instantly were able to see each other for transfers.
> 
> One note that I should make, that may be obvious only to some folks: My Tivos are configured to use Ethernet with the Homeplug AV-ish units and are using Linksys USB to Ethernet adaptors.


Awesome, thanks! (or not, as now there's another 3 items on my "can't live without" list)


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## weathertop (Jan 24, 2003)

davezatz said:


> If you live in an apartment with unmetered power, as I do, do you think the signal would stay in the unit?


According to the Panasonic documentation that came with my units, the network signal could theoretically carry beyond your premise if you were using a product that utilizes an unencrypted signal.

Panasonic units automatically utilize AES encryption from the box and configure any new slave units to use the same encryption.....

But, they come pre-encrypted in the box and I suppose that it is possible that you could purchase a unit and your neighbor could purchase a slave unit using the same encryption keys. Not likely, but possible.

...If you were to suspect that your neighbors are leaching off your LAN, Panasonic outlines a procedure using the buttons on the unit (no software involved) to change your encryption to another setting for the network.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

tomso said:


> Actually, the spec sheet (http://www.phonex.com/pdf/NeverWire_14_Spec_Sheet.pdf) says that it _is_ homeplug 1.1 compliant.


Thanks. I've never tried using Phonex Neverwire 14's with any other brand. I'll have to try a pair of Homeplug A/V units when the price drops.


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## goman (Dec 16, 2004)

Amazon sells this here

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...45NC1&coliid=I3IVPKS1X6BM3Y&v=glance&n=172282


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## weathertop (Jan 24, 2003)

Yep. I bought my units from Amazon. 

And here they are. 

Yep.


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## jettra (Jul 24, 2006)

I'm thinking about purchasing the Trendnet (TPL-102E) powerline adapter for networking through the electical sockets. Does anyone know if this product works with TiVo?

Also the TPL-101U+ from Trendnet is a powerline adapter with an USB connection instead of the ethernet plug. Will this work with my Series 2 TiVo. ie: can I plug an ethernet cord into the device and directly into my TiVo... and then use the TPL-102E downstairs and plug it into my router?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jettra said:


> Also the TPL-101U+ from Trendnet is a powerline adapter with an USB connection instead of the ethernet plug. Will this work with my Series 2 TiVo. ie: can I plug an ethernet cord into the device and directly into my TiVo... and then use the TPL-102E downstairs and plug it into my router?


No. The TiVo software does not contain drivers for any powerline networking devices. You'll have to connect it via ethernet.

Dan


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## bluedakar (May 1, 2006)

Thanks for the great reveiw weathertop. I'm mostly wired in now but I will pass on the recommendation to friends and family looking for a fast reliable "wired" network setup without running wires!


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

I just install a pair of the Panasonic homeplug devices and they're working great. I'd been struggling with a G wireless connection for over a year, put in a Llinksys Speedbooster card in my PC, added high gain antenna to my PC and router, moved the router and PC around, and still was getting marginal performance. But now, according to the test procedure on the box, I'm getting over 30 M bps, even though I'm going through two power panels. Couldn't be happier. I got mine through Amazon.


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## S.Mo (Feb 13, 2004)

My computer room is like unto a radio frequency black hole. I used early Netgear homeplug stuff to bridge to an access point in my den where my TiVo and wireless LAN needs are located. I had to reboot everything an awful lot. Not sure whether it was the Powerline network or the old router or the old access point. 

I eventually replaced it all with a mesh network consisting a of couple of WRT54Gs running Sveasoft Talisman. You can get pretty amazing range (and out of my computer room) when you've got two routers with "enhanced" transmitters. This setup has been more reliable.

I still have my Vonage box on the the Powerline network with good results.


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## epetru (Nov 22, 2004)

I was using NETGEAR WE102's between my TIVOs and they worked pretty well, but not quite real time... I had to buffer the transfer. I replaced these with 2 airlink 85 mbs powerline devices from Fry's @ $29 each and now I can transfer in real time.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

This month's MaximumPC (October issue) gives Netgear's HDX-B101 a 9 KickA** award.

http://www.netgear.com/About/PressReleases/en-US/2006/20060626.aspx

Amazon


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## theone (Nov 11, 2002)

Has anyone compared the homeplug options to the new "N" speed wireless routers?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Ok, it's homeplug 1.1, but for example, justdeals.com has refurbished Netgear XE102 for $20 each. I seem to remember searching more a few weeks ago and found new ones (or at least ones that came with all accessories) for only a bit more.

It's a big price difference.. (and this from someone who is somewhat seriously considering spending $1K on a series 3 with lifetime subscription and I don't even have a HDTV yet)


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

greg_burns said:


> This month's MaximumPC (October issue) gives Netgear's HDX-B101 a 9 KickA** award.
> 
> http://www.netgear.com/About/PressReleases/en-US/2006/20060626.aspx
> 
> Amazon


I absolutely agree. I've been using 3 Netgear HDX-B101's to network two Tivos together with the router , and the implementation has been flawless...and it's completely compliant with the new HomePlug spec. Panasonic's implementation, while using a more av oriented spec with sony and a few others, is slightly easier with the "same socket" button sync with the master, where I needed to sync/assign the new Netgear units together via software that ran on a PC on the network.

Despite the slight amout of additional configuration work, once setup, they've worked very fast and they've been flawless.

I had so many intermittent problems with wireless G (all linksys) between the TiVo's that I gave up and tried this....I have never looked back.

I still have wireless on my network for mobile devices like my laptop and my smartphone. But for fixed devices in the home, this is absolutely the the way to go without having to wire CAT 5e or 6 throughout.

The cost is about the same as the panasonics. Each unit costs abouts $100 each. Yes they are expensive...but they work...period.

The only time I've had to reboot anything is when I've had to reboot the combo wireless router. I have never had to reboot/sync/etc the netgear units. They just work when the home network router is working.

My wife is much happier since she can transfer shows faster, and it's now always available too.


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## ACraigL (Feb 12, 2003)

Is SlingLink Homeplug 2.0 or 1.1?


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## dagap (Dec 5, 2003)

Any issue with two phase home wiring?


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## weathertop (Jan 24, 2003)

dagap said:


> Any issue with two phase home wiring?


While I can't vouch for this directly, others on the web report that these units work fine with two phase wiring.

....but....


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## weathertop (Jan 24, 2003)

weathertop said:


> especially with HD Tivos coming and the likely file size of HD recordings larger than what wireless networks can bear.


...It feels kinda odd to respond to my own post in a deflective manner, but with MRV and Tivotogo currently disabled on the Series 3 units, I should share the following:


Until (if?) the Series 3 gains these technologies, I think that it really isn't necessary to consider Homeplug AV for connecting your Tivos.
...unless that is, ease of setup is worth the current price premium for these units and/or your household only has Series 2 tivos.

I hope that this coda changes soon, but I've been waiting 2 years for Tivotogo for the Mac. Given that Tivo had to release the Series 3 without MRV and Tivotogo in order gain Cablecard certification, my expectations are low that these technologies will be enabled in the foreseeable future.


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## epetru (Nov 22, 2004)

I've been using these for over a month now and they work very well. You can also put a switch on these units, so for example, 

- plug HOMEPLUG 1 into your Linksys 54G Router
- plug HOMEPLUG 2 into the room with your TIVO.
- plug a 5 port switch into HOMEPLUG 2
- plug TIVO into the switch.
- plug other things into the switch

Sometime this year I think I'll try replacing the HOMEPLUGS with Linksys 54G routers running DD-WRT and WDS. That way I can use the routers as Wireless Bridges with built-in switches...

Has anyone tried that yet? Inquiring minds want to know.

E


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

epetru said:


> Sometime this year I think I'll try replacing the HOMEPLUGS with Linksys 54G routers running DD-WRT and WDS. That way I can use the routers as Wireless Bridges with built-in switches...
> 
> Has anyone tried that yet? Inquiring minds want to know.


I've ran Sveasoft's Alchemy on a pair of Linksys 54G for WDS. Ran great, but I believe WDS cuts your bandwidth in half. (Isn't that true of any bridge?)

Since upgraded to Talisman, but no longer have the second router. I ended up selling it.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

epetru said:


> Sometime this year I think I'll try replacing the HOMEPLUGS with Linksys 54G routers running DD-WRT and WDS. That way I can use the routers as Wireless Bridges with built-in switches...
> 
> Has anyone tried that yet? Inquiring minds want to know.
> 
> E


It absolutely works. I just did this last month for my brother-in-law, with a couple of Buffalo routers (essentially WRT54G clones) and DD-WRT. See my post HERE

Keep in mind that WDS will restrict the wireless network to the WDS devices only. If you're only connecting the routers together, you're all set. If you need to connect other things to the wireless net, you'll need to run one router in AP mode and the other in "client bridge" mode.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

PaulS said:


> Keep in mind that WDS will restrict the wireless network to the WDS devices only. If you're only connecting the routers together, you're all set. If you need to connect other things to the wireless net, you'll need to run one router in AP mode and the other in "client bridge" mode.


I never had that issue in WDS mode with Alchemy.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

I don't think the WDS limitation is specific to the firmware. I believe it's a generic wireless functionality. HERE is a good write-up from Tom's Networking.

In short, I'm not sure what flavor of WDS is provided by DD-WRT and/or Sveasoft. I've been working on the assumption that it's "wireless bridging" (only wireless AP's can talk to each other), rather than "wireless repeating" (where AP's and clients can talk to each other). I could be wrong, but everything I've read tends to favor the "bridging" scenario.

Another caveat is this WDS stuff is very loosey-goosey standards-wise. Not quite as bad as the hack-fest that all this non-standard 802.11N crapola has become, but there's still room for interpretation which could lead to vendor incompatibilities. It's safer to stick with the same vendor's equipment.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Here is the terminology used on Sveasoft side...

http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7655



> *Client mode* works with any brand AP, but you cannot connect a wireless client to it. Also, any service that relies on broadcasts will not work (i.e. Windows file sharing, XBox System Link, TiVos, etc)
> 
> *WDS mode* only works with other Broadcom-based access points which are running similar firmware, but it allows wireless clients to connect and broadcasts work when you use LAN mode.


I'm not very confident on how it works. I just know it did.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

DD-WRT has many modes of operation, but the two applicable ones are :

- Client mode : Secondary router attaches to primary router's wireless network as a client. In doing so, two subnets are formed : one is the wireless network, and the other is the secondary router's LAN ports. So, you've gotta NAT through the secondary router and you need two DHCP servers (one for each subnet). To sum it up : blech!

- Client bridge mode : Secondary router attaches to primary router's wireless network as a pseudo-ethernet bridge. One subnet is maintained in all aspects, no NAT involved, and only one DHCP server required (on the primary router). Much nicer implementation.

In either case, other wireless clients can not attach to the secondary router, while they can still attach to the primary router. 

Like I said, they're both likely to be very similar. They're based on the same chipset, so they can't get too far away from each other anyways...


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

BTW, I think it was actually finished yesterday, but Fry's had a deal for some sort of HomePlug 1.0 device (so I guess some would call that slow) for like $30 each new...

I'm only mentioning this for curiuosity's sake, plus Fry's often repeats the same deals again.


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## goman (Dec 16, 2004)

Has anyone tried these?

ZyXEL PL-100 Powerline Ethernet Adaptor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833181019&ATT=33-181-019&CMP=OTC-C173T

$44 per after rebate. plus shipping.

Up to 85 MBs per spec

CNet has a review of them here.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Zyxel_PL_10...net_Adapter/4505-3243_7-32018424.html?tag=sub

I have an old wireless b router and instead of upgrading the router and my wireless b usb device, I am thinking about getting a few of these for about the same price.


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