# Do Not Buy A Tivo HD



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so. I just went through my installation of 2 cable cards each, in the 2 Tivo HD units I bought this past weekend. In both cases Cable Card Slot 2, on both Tivos does not tune most of the digital channels and has heavy pixelation, and Cable Card Slot 1, while it does tune all the stations it is supposed to has pixelation even few minutes briefly. In both cases the Tivo is hooked up to the same cable that I had an 8300 HD on.

I spent a 1/2 hour on hold waiting for Tivo Tech support, who then walked me through reading information off the screen without any ideas as to how to remedy this problem. Eventually I switched the cards in one of the Tivos and called Cablevision to rebind the cards. Cablevision did this not problem, and again Cable Card Slot 2 had same issues. All the people at Cablevision were helpful and in no way did I feel they were adding to the problem so I would use their products and services.

I am convinced Tivo has a serious issue on their hands here. I bought the 2 Tivos from 2 different Circuit City stores this weekend so the odds that 2 separate units from 2 spearate stores exhibit the same issue seems like a big problem. If you check out others experiences on the board you will find very similar results.

I have to say all through this Cablevision was fantastic, the Tech was knowledgeable, and although he had not worked on the HD yet, he had installed cards in Series 3 units before. It appears from my testing that all 4 cards worked, and when I called to rebind I was on hold for only a minute, and only spent a total of 10 minutes on the call.

So if you want to spend multiple days trying to get a new buggy product to work and doing the troubleshooting and development for Tivo, get on board and get a new Tivo HD. If you expect the Tivo experience with this product, where you connect it, it works and the user experience is great, forget it. I take back every bad thing I have said about the SA 8300 HD, as much as I don't like many of the ways it works and find it annoying, it does 1 thing Tivo HD does not, and that is WORK!

Bu Bye Tivo, it was a short return. Good luck with your new products. 

*EDIT / Update on 9/10/07:*
Well in my opinion it is now time to buy the Tivo HD. It has been an interesting journey, but after testing the most recent update over the weekend I am convinced that Tivo has remedied the macroblocking/pixelation issue for the bulk of the remaining users who were still experiencing this problem. I personally came very close to returing the systems, even to the point of have both back in their original cartons, but I kept them and am now happy I did.

As I mentioned earleir in this thread if you have an 8300 HD and want a better experience get a Tivo HD, now ready for primetime (and just in time for the new fall schedule).


----------



## profet (Aug 27, 2004)

man am I getting nervous... cablevision comes saturday with my cablecards...

Oh boy...

Does anyone have a TivoHD with a non pixelated picture from card #2?


----------



## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so. I just went through my installation of 2 cable cards each, in the 2 Tivo HD units I bought this past weekend. In both cases Cable Card Slot 2, on both Tivos does not tune most of the digital channels and has heavy pixelation, and Cable Card Slot 1, while it does tune all the stations it is supposed to has pixelation even few minutes briefly. In both cases the Tivo is hooked up to the same cable that I had an 8300 HD on.


This appears to be a known issue with quite a few people mentioning problems with slot-2 pixelation. See the issues thread. This is the risk of buying new hardware and being an early adopter. Undoubtedly, once TiVo reproduces this in the lab, there will be a software patch.


----------



## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

I'm sorry you are having such problems, I am very satisfied with my Tivo HD. I had a very successfuly cable card install (Comcast with 2 Motorolla cards) and don't experience any source pixelation nor missing digital channels. Hopefully, your problems will be resolved soon.


----------



## Fist of Death (Jan 4, 2002)

aus1ander said:


> ...once TiVo reproduces this in the lab, there will be a software patch.


Unless it's a hardware issue.


----------



## anoneemus (Jul 29, 2004)

has anyone called Tivo about this issue?


----------



## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=359993

I experienced problems like this on 2 S3 units, plus a cablecard TV (with no TiVo connected).

I am having no more problems, and the TiVo HD I bought last Friday (two cablecards activated on Monday) is doing fine, no problems at all.

In the cases where some channels don't come in at all, all I can say is that until recently I have had my doubts as to whether my cable company was properly activating the cards. It seems to me that the more of a pain in the butt I became to Comcast, and they figured out that I did not mind at all having a few truck rolls out to my place, that things seemed to work themselves out.

The tiling issue, or pixelation, I think is an issue of channel cramming from the cable company. Again, I was persistant, and things have worked out.

I can understand your frustration, and I can't be sure of your problem, but I really think this might be an issue of cable companies learning to truly support cablecard devices. Kind of like if there was only one web browser, your development and testing of web pages would be simpler. I think cable companies are having to take a deeper look into how their channels are arranged in order to support cablecards in wider range of CE devices.

Of course, if folks get mad at their CE devices and go back to cable in-house equipment, then they won't have to do much at all.

See if your cable company can bring out one of their STB's that use cablecards. I don't know if that will uncover anything. I had this tiling across multiple devices, one with no TiVo involved at all. Eventually, my TiVo S3's stopped having problems. But my cablecard TV (with no TiVo) continued having problems. I actually fixed that remaining issue by ADDING a TiVo HD to it.

I think that as cable companies begin to deploy their own STB's with cablecards, we will see cablecard support in general get much better.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

brermike said:


> I'm sorry you are having such problems, I am very satisfied with my Tivo HD. I had a very successfully cable card install (Comcast with 2 Motorolla cards) and don't experience any source pixelation nor missing digital channels. Hopefully, your problems will be resolved soon.


Thanks, was very frustrated after 5 hours of trying to get the Tivos to work when I posted. I am glad your experience was/is better than mine. I was just trying to make people aware that if they are thinking that this is a Generation 2 product based on the Series 3 systems and will work seamlessly, it is clearly not. I would not argue whether it could work or not, I am just saying you are really rolling the dice here.

If I were hacking the unit, or trying to enable functions that I was not supposed to be using it would be one thing to have a drawn out troubleshooting experience, but just hooking it up out of the box? Hacking my old DirecTivo to add a larger drive and MRV, etc. was a more seemless and nicer experience than I have had so far.


----------



## TokyoShoe (Jul 27, 2007)

aus1ander said:


> This appears to be a known issue with quite a few people mentioning problems with slot-2 pixelation. See the issues thread. This is the risk of buying new hardware and being an early adopter. Undoubtedly, once TiVo reproduces this in the lab, there will be a software patch.


Just for the record: _ I've got a brand new TiVoHD that I bought this past weekend from Circuit City here near me in Houston, Texas. I slotted and bound both CableCards with ComCast, zero problems.

So far I have had 2 spots of pixelation both they were extremely short, and both during severely inclimate weather (heavy heavy rain). I have not seen one stitch of pixelation since that point. I get full digital cable channels on both cards, excellent recording quality.. and full HD channels and HD quality on both cards as well._

*So far I am EXTREMELY pleased and happy with my TiVo!*


----------



## riekl (Jan 29, 2001)

Chimpware said:


> I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so. I just went through my installation of 2 cable cards each, in the 2 Tivo HD units I bought this past weekend. In both cases Cable Card Slot 2, on both Tivos does not tune most of the digital channels and has heavy pixelation, and Cable Card Slot 1, while it does tune all the stations it is supposed to has pixelation even few minutes briefly. In both cases the Tivo is hooked up to the same cable that I had an 8300 HD on.
> 
> I spent a 1/2 hour on hold waiting for Tivo Tech support, who then walked me through reading information off the screen without any ideas as to how to remedy this problem. Eventually I switched the cards in one of the Tivos and called Cablevision to rebind the cards. Cablevision did this not problem, and again Cable Card Slot 2 had same issues. All the people at Cablevision were helpful and in no way did I feel they were adding to the problem so I would use their products and services.
> 
> ...


Your problems are cable card problems, not Tivo HD problems however nice the tech might be.


----------



## Tallguy001 (Sep 5, 2003)

riekl said:


> Your problems are cable card problems, not Tivo HD problems however nice the tech might be.


I have to disagree. Numerous people are having the exact same problem (slot 2 is not working), including myself. When the card is taken out of slot 2 and reprogrammed in slot 1, it works just fine and the "good" card that was working in slot 1 will have problems in slot 2. There are too many examples on this board for this to be a coincidence.


----------



## jmaditto (Jul 29, 2007)

Could be combination of the box and the company's cablecards I guess. Seems like if it were either a design issue with the hardware or software then everyone would have it....some are reporting no issues. Will have to follow this closely over the next few weeks. Strange.


----------



## frostrambler (Feb 6, 2005)

The design issue is an incompatibility with the TivoHD and the Scientific Atlanta cablecards, notice that people who have motorola cards have no problems, only SA cards.

Cablevision is exclusively SA, I have two SA cards from Cablevision in my TivoHD, both are dead because of firmware upgrades failing, I have my second truckroll scheduled for tomorrow, they installed the cards yesterday, both failed even before the tech left, he had no more. They were supposed to come this morning, and then switched the appointment without telling me to tomorrow morning. I am pretty pissed at cablevision now.


----------



## Illrigger (Jul 26, 2007)

Tallguy001 said:


> I have to disagree. Numerous people are having the exact same problem (slot 2 is not working), including myself. When the card is taken out of slot 2 and reprogrammed in slot 1, it works just fine and the "good" card that was working in slot 1 will have problems in slot 2. There are too many examples on this board for this to be a coincidence.


I don't know about that. Given that many of us aren't seeing issues of the severity you're reporting, I still say that at least some of the issues relate to the cards or how the cable company provisions them. I have two motorola cards, and I get the pixelization issues, but setup went perfectly and the issues persist whether I have one or two cards in the box. I get service through the local power company rather than Comcast or the others, and they seemed far more competent than the reports I've been reading; I just picked up the cards myself, slapped them in, called the service number, read off the pairing information, and an hour later I was provisioned and running on both tuners. It was so simple that I somehow doubt that the TiVo has much to do with the setup issues, it has to be something wrong with the cards and/or the cable co. Given that they may or may not WANT you to get rid of your box (and along with it the lucrative PPV and On Demand programming premiums), you can't rule out that they make this difficult on purpose.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So if there is a problem with slot 2 it sounds like a mutistream card in slot one would be a workaround since you only need one mutistream card for both tuners.


----------



## profet (Aug 27, 2004)

Unless the problem is with processing power. If the decoders are being overworked then well... its a hardware problem.


----------



## TokyoShoe (Jul 27, 2007)

frostrambler said:


> The design issue is an incompatibility with the TivoHD and the Scientific Atlanta cablecards, notice that people who have motorola cards have no problems, only SA cards.
> 
> Cablevision is exclusively SA, I have two SA cards from Cablevision in my TivoHD, both are dead because of firmware upgrades failing, I have my second truckroll scheduled for tomorrow, they installed the cards yesterday, both failed even before the tech left, he had no more. They were supposed to come this morning, and then switched the appointment without telling me to tomorrow morning. I am pretty pissed at cablevision now.


You might be on to something here.
I have 2 Motorola Cards (ComCast Houston uses only these), and so far have zero problems in either slot. My first two cards paired up and started working right off the bat. Still no quality issues either.

If I had an SA Card to test with, I could help test this theory. Unfortunately all I have are Motorola cards.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

profet said:


> Unless the problem is with processing power. If the decoders are being overworked then well... its a hardware problem.


I thought the TiVoHD has more processing power than the Series 3 not less?


----------



## Illrigger (Jul 26, 2007)

TokyoShoe said:


> You might be on to something here.
> I have 2 Motorola Cards (ComCast Houston uses only these), and so far have zero problems in either slot. My first two cards paired up and started working right off the bat. Still no quality issues either.
> 
> If I had an SA Card to test with, I could help test this theory. Unfortunately all I have are Motorola cards.


There is a definite pattern emerging with the SA cards, if you look through all the threads.


----------



## fishboy (Aug 19, 2002)

I'm getting really nervous now... I've got two Tivo HD's on order and Comcast coming on Friday 8/10. In my area, they only use the SA 8300 boxes, so I would assume that they only use the SA cablecards too. Let's hope I'm wrong.


----------



## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

TokyoShoe said:


> You might be on to something here.
> I have 2 Motorola Cards (ComCast Houston uses only these), and so far have zero problems in either slot. My first two cards paired up and started working right off the bat. Still no quality issues either.
> 
> If I had an SA Card to test with, I could help test this theory. Unfortunately all I have are Motorola cards.


Yeah, maybe a couple of things in our advantage. Motorola cards, and Comcast is a bit more accepting of a world with TiVo in it. I had no problems with my TiVo HD setup, and it has functioned flawlessly. It went more smoothly than my previous S3 setups.


----------



## cr33p (Jan 2, 2005)

Well worse case scenario, you live with some issues until they find a remidy, and eventually your local cable co will have M cards and life will be great again


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Even using the analog tuner I can see pixelization and tiling when using the zoom/full screen modes. It is not nearly as noticeable in normal aspect mode.


----------



## frostrambler (Feb 6, 2005)

Well in my case, tomorrow once I get both cards activated and the firmware works, and all my channels work, I will then check the second card and if it is pixelated I will ask the cable guy if cablevision has any motorola cards, if not then I will call Tivo and tell them about the SA problem.


----------



## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Just to emphasize the point: I really hope that the people having pixelation problems with the #2 card with SA are letting TiVo know. I'm sure that they *really* want to be able to reproduce the problem in their development lab, so they can fix it. Lots of detailed scenarios are useful. In addition, they have the ability to capture and upload diagnostic logs from customer TiVos, with the owner's consent. Complaining in this forum doesn't help them.


----------



## randymac88 (Feb 29, 2004)

Here in new york, definite problems with firmware upgrades using Scientific Atlanta cards. A total mess. I am this II close to just returning the unit and keeping my cable co's dvr until these issues are worked out. My 14 day return window is closing rapidly, and i just don't want to take the chance. I will buy again once it seems the dust has settled.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

randymac88 said:


> Here in new york, definite problems with firmware upgrades using Scientific Atlanta cards. A total mess. I am this II close to just returning the unit and keeping my cable co's dvr until these issues are worked out. My 14 day return window is closing rapidly, and i just don't want to take the chance. I will buy again once it seems the dust has settled.


If my dual card installation on Monday doesn't go smoothly or if they jack with me and try to stick me with bogus charges related to the cable cards, then mine won't get activated until I can get an M-card and Comcast gets their crap together!


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

frostrambler said:


> Well in my case, tomorrow once I get both cards activated and the firmware works, and all my channels work, I will then check the second card and if it is pixelated I will ask the cable guy if cablevision has any motorola cards, if not then I will call Tivo and tell them about the SA problem.


your cable company will only be using one brand of cable cards as they need to match up with the head end equipment


----------



## Tallguy001 (Sep 5, 2003)

CharlesH said:


> Just to emphasize the point: I really hope that the people having pixelation problems with the #2 card with SA are letting TiVo know. I'm sure that they *really* want to be able to reproduce the problem in their development lab, so they can fix it. Lots of detailed scenarios are useful. In addition, they have the ability to capture and upload diagnostic logs from customer TiVos, with the owner's consent. Complaining in this forum doesn't help them.


I did talk to Tivo today. The rep. I talked to said she received a call earlier about the same exact problem. I was sure to give her specifics. Her only solution right now is to switch out the box. I might just wait it out.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

CharlesH said:


> Just to emphasize the point: I really hope that the people having pixelation problems with the #2 card with SA are letting TiVo know. I'm sure that they *really* want to be able to reproduce the problem in their development lab, so they can fix it. Lots of detailed scenarios are useful. In addition, they have the ability to capture and upload diagnostic logs from customer TiVos, with the owner's consent. Complaining in this forum doesn't help them.


when TiVo says it is a known issue that means they have reproduced it in the lab.


----------



## nick58b (Jul 29, 2007)

Tivo support just told me (after 10 minutes on hold) that they are aware of the problem with slot 2 and are working to fix it as fast as possible. The tech said the patch would be rolled out hopefully before next week. I have two 2007 dated SA cards, both work fine in slot 1, neither work in slot 2.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> Just to emphasize the point: I really hope that the people having pixelation problems with the #2 card with SA are letting TiVo know. I'm sure that they *really* want to be able to reproduce the problem in their development lab, so they can fix it. Lots of detailed scenarios are useful. In addition, they have the ability to capture and upload diagnostic logs from customer TiVos, with the owner's consent. Complaining in this forum doesn't help them.


I understand your point, but why are we having to act as R&D for Tivo. If I am going to be their lab I want a salary and benefits. There are realy only 2 cable card manufacturers from what I can tell from posts on this board, how hard is it to test both?

I really hope this gets fixed for those willing to live with the pain.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Tallguy001 said:


> I did talk to Tivo today. The rep. I talked to said she received a call earlier about the same exact problem. I was sure to give her specifics. Her only solution right now is to switch out the box. I might just wait it out.


I am willing to bet this was me. I was on the line for an hour with the Rep. and another 1/2 hour with her supervisor. They wanted to swicth out both my boxes, but I bought them at 2 separate stores, and I spent almost a full day with Cablevision to get where I am, why repeat it? I gave them the option of sending someone from Tivo to sit at my house and work with Cablevision to get it working, or reimburse me for my time. They were not happy with either choice.


----------



## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

CharlesH said:


> Complaining in this forum doesn't help them.


Actually it can. When I had a toxic channel issue and posted as such, Tivo Jerry contacted me and got my service # and had me force a call so they could retrieve diagnostic data.

Still call and all, but it's not _necessarily _ completely fruitless


----------



## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

frostrambler said:


> The design issue is an incompatibility with the TivoHD and the Scientific Atlanta cablecards, notice that people who have motorola cards have no problems, only SA cards.
> 
> Cablevision is exclusively SA, I have two SA cards from Cablevision in my TivoHD, both are dead because of firmware upgrades failing, I have my second truckroll scheduled for tomorrow, they installed the cards yesterday, both failed even before the tech left, he had no more. They were supposed to come this morning, and then switched the appointment without telling me to tomorrow morning. I am pretty pissed at cablevision now.


Does the same hold true for M-Cards? I am having an M-Card installed soon from TW Cincy. It looks like I have an option for SA or Motorola if you go by their web site.

I am assuming I should strongly insist that I want the Motorola!


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Note that I and other reviewers (which I linked in my review) mentioned some issues with the box. It is a known issue and TiVo is working on getting an update out quickly.

You have 30 days to return the unit and get your money back. I recommend taking a wait and see approach. If TiVo doesn't have it patched before the end of your return window - return it. You can always buy one again later once it is patched. Maybe TiVo will do something like extend the 30-day return window or offer a free month of service or something if they don't have it patched soon.


----------



## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Chimpware said:


> I understand your point, but why are we having to act as R&D for Tivo. If I am going to be their lab I want a salary and benefits. There are realy only 2 cable card manufacturers from what I can tell from posts on this board, how hard is it to test both?


From one involved in developing large commercial software products: One may think that one has used industry best practices to develop your product, and tested it exhaustively in the lab, and in beta, and then when it is generally distributed, there will be *something* different out there that messes things up. This is especially true when your product has to interact with complex systems you do not control, that may be configured _just_ differently enough from what you expected to cause you grief. Asking the customer help you get the data you need to diagnose and fix the problem is considered reasonable. This is not asking the customer to figure out the cause of the problem, much less fix it.

And in this case, one is dealing a system (cable cards) that its designers (the cable companies) had no motivation to make robust and easy to develop for. Having third-party devices have difficulties with cable cards suits their interests (as they see it) just fine.


----------



## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

dolfer said:


> Does the same hold true for M-Cards? I am having an M-Card installed soon from TW Cincy. It looks like I have an option for SA or Motorola if you go by their web site.
> 
> I am assuming I should strongly insist that I want the Motorola!


If this issue is with 2 Cards (Slot 1 and 2) then I was going to ask the same question.

An M Card only takes up 1 Slot, so it should not produce the same problem.

Any one have an M Card and can verify?


----------



## shizle (Jul 31, 2007)

Just another data-point, I had motorola cards installed and they work fine, no pixellation/tiling issues.


----------



## thepcdoc (Jul 31, 2007)

Wow do I feel like an utter schmuck now! I have gone through two boxes and I have the dreaded 2nd slot problem as well. I am in Westchester NY and have Cablevision. So they are using the SA cards. I would think that Cablevision would have seen enough of these problems to know there is an issue. I have had 3 visits already and hours upon hours of phone support trying to resolve the problem. Is this problem only associated with the new HD model? Does this not happen on the Original Series three unit? If so I might be better off with that unit instead, any reason not to switch up to the S3? Any benefits of staying with the HD?


----------



## JANNINO (Oct 28, 2004)

Does anyone know what cablecards Verizon Fios used (SA or Motorola)?? This slot 2 issue is most likely going to keep me on the sideline for now with regard to buying Tivo HD DVR. I'll stick to Directv for now until this issue is resolved.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Verizon FiOS uses Motorola CableCards.


----------



## pusta (Aug 2, 2007)

I had Comcast come and install two Motorola Cable Cards in my Tivo HD...no issues with the second card. In fact, the only issue I had was the installer trying to plug the cards in the back of the machine.


----------



## frostrambler (Feb 6, 2005)

thepcdoc said:


> Wow do I feel like an utter schmuck now! I have gone through two boxes and I have the dreaded 2nd slot problem as well. I am in Westchester NY and have Cablevision. So they are using the SA cards. I would think that Cablevision would have seen enough of these problems to know there is an issue. I have had 3 visits already and hours upon hours of phone support trying to resolve the problem. Is this problem only associated with the new HD model? Does this not happen on the Original Series three unit? If so I might be better off with that unit instead, any reason not to switch up to the S3? Any benefits of staying with the HD?


Look as far as I know, Cablevision uses SA exclusively, TivoHD has a problem with the second slot, I BET that its software only, and it if isn't then Tivo is looking at a lot of angry customers.

Just to ease some fears here, my second truck roll is tomorrow morning at 8am, thats in 7 hours. My first truck roll took three hours, two SA cards from cablevision, both dead, got stuck in firmware upgrade hell. Let us see how tomorrow goes. If I have more errors, I will update, if the second card gives the characteristic pixelation, I will update.

Tivo does read these forums, so just keep posting, they do listen.


----------



## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

I haven't noticed any problems with my TivoHD regarding pixelization on slot 2. I do have Motorola cards too.


----------



## thepcdoc (Jul 31, 2007)

Wheeeeee..... I was playing on my 360 while some large download was coming down on my Tivo. took forever to load. When I got back to it it said pending restart. Rebooted and now the 2nd slot pixelation is gone. I don't know if they just did an updated but I am using SA CCs and it is running beautifully.... Yeah I get to keep it after all.


----------



## WeBoat (Nov 6, 2002)

fishboy said:


> I'm getting really nervous now... I've got two Tivo HD's on order and Comcast coming on Friday 8/10. In my area, they only use the SA 8300 boxes, so I would assume that they only use the SA cablecards too. Let's hope I'm wrong.


Maybe not. My first set of cards were SA cards. Next set they brought the second day were motorala cards. The installer said they work better.


----------



## lament (Jul 6, 2005)

The problem with slot 2 has been fixed with the latest software update..


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Nice to see that Tivo fixed this issue less than 48 hours after it was reported on the forum.

Tivo probably fixed this weeks ago but just got around to making it 'live' on the update servers this morning. The stock TivoHD software was probably a month old or more, with mass production having begun early July.


----------



## frostrambler (Feb 6, 2005)

Oh wow, thats awesome, my cable guy should be here any minute, I am going to go make sure my Tivo updated.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

YAY! Update fixed the issue for me as well. 

Still not happy with Tivo just yet as they should have let me know this was a known issue when I called them yesterday instead of telling me it was a Cable Card issue and making me waste an entire day on the phone with Cablevision trying to troubleshoot the issue.

Still have random pixelation issue, at least during quick test this morning, but I can live with that for a bit to see if it improves. Checked signal strength when it happens and it is over 95, so I will check cables as suggested in another thread to see if I can improve situation.


----------



## sting0r (Jul 12, 2002)

Does anyone have any feedback on how high the signal strength needs to be for it to work? I did a channel scan yesterday to see what in the clear QAM channels I can get and for most of them they are 50 - 60%, but it gets a lock on the channel. Does it need to be in the 90s for a cable card to work?

Glad they fixed this before my install, I have to wait until next Saturday for Cablevision to come 



Chimpware said:


> YAY! Update fixed the issue for me as well.
> 
> Still not happy with Tivo just yet as they should have let me know this was a known issue when I called them yesterday instead of telling me it was a Cable Card issue and making me waste an entire day on the phone with Cablevision trying to troubleshoot the issue.
> 
> Still have random pixelation issue, at least during quick test this morning, but I can live with that for a bit to see if it improves. Checked signal strength when it happens and it is over 95, so I will check cables as suggested in another thread to see if I can improve situation.


----------



## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

lament said:


> The problem with slot 2 has been fixed with the latest software update..


Would it really have killed TiVo to pop in this thread a few days ago and say that this is a known issue and will get an update very shortly?

[cranky old man]Communication from TiVo to this forum used to be much better, back in the day.[/cranky old man]


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Saturn said:


> Would it really have killed TiVo to pop in this thread a few days ago and say that this is a known issue and will get an update very shortly?
> 
> [cranky old man]Communication from TiVo to this forum used to be much better, back in the day.[/cranky old man]


 :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Chimpware said:


> YAY! Update fixed the issue for me as well.
> 
> Still not happy with Tivo just yet as they should have let me know this was a known issue when I called them yesterday instead of telling me it was a Cable Card issue and making me waste an entire day on the phone with Cablevision trying to troubleshoot the issue.
> 
> Still have random pixelation issue, at least during quick test this morning, but I can live with that for a bit to see if it improves. Checked signal strength when it happens and it is over 95, so I will check cables as suggested in another thread to see if I can improve situation.


Do you think you could update the top of your original post to indicate this issue was fixed with the v8.1.7b software released on 8/02?

Members who don't read the second page of the thread will have no idea that Tivo fixed the problem.


----------



## rcamille (Dec 24, 2002)

I would also appreciate feedback on the above signal strength issue. My signal strength is also in the mid 60% level on the clear QAM channels.

I have cablevision coming tomorrow for an install of the cable cards and as we all know the more knowledge we have when the guy shows up the better the chances of this thing working.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Do you think you could update the top of your original post to indicate this issue was fixed with the v8.1.7b software released on 8/02?
> 
> Members who don't read the second page of the thread will have no idea that Tivo fixed the problem.


Done.

Still have my reservations and am annoyed with process I went through, but edited thread title based on tyour recommendation.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

rcamille said:


> I would also appreciate feedback on the above signal strength issue. My signal strength is also in the mid 60% level on the clear QAM channels.
> 
> I have cablevision coming tomorrow for an install of the cable cards and as we all know the more knowledge we have when the guy shows up the better the chances of this thing working.


I can say that I had signal strength in the 45 to 60 range intially and Tivo could lock into stations (barring issue with Slot 2). I had the Tec. check the line anyway and he changed the trunk I was connected to at the pole (actually at the green thing sticking out of the ground - underground wiring) and signal is now over 90 on almost every station. On Slot 1 I do not notice any difference in the picture quality (pixelation) compared to when signal was much lower.


----------



## A-1 (Mar 12, 2007)

Okay call me dumb but as i understand it the Tivo HD can use M-cards which means only one card is needed for multi-channel recording, so why are you getting two CC? 

Is it that the provider does not offer them yet? 

Or, am i misinformed about M-cards. 

I have the s3 and I too had pixels for a while and it turned out to be the cable cards. In fact in my research i found that my provider Comcast was shipped a large batch of defective and recalled Motorola CC's. I went thru 6 pairs before i got a set that worked.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

A-1 said:


> Okay call me dumb but as i understand it the Tivo HD can use M-cards which means only one card is needed for multi-channel recording, so why are you getting two CC?
> 
> Is it that the provider does not offer them yet?
> 
> ...


a good thing to do is ask for the manufacture dates on the cards


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

A-1 said:


> Okay call me dumb but as i understand it the Tivo HD can use M-cards which means only one card is needed for multi-channel recording, so why are you getting two CC?
> 
> Is it that the provider does not offer them yet?
> 
> ...


1. Most providers aren't yet offering M-cards.

2. Most CSRs, techs, etc, don't know anything about M-cards or how to get them installed into the system.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Just to add something 'new' to this thread. I just observed that my Tivo HD is manufactured in Mexico.

I have some really bad experiences with Mexico produced electronics. Does anyone know if the Series 3 was also manufactured there?


----------



## lament (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm sure it depends on what part of the country you live in. I live in San Diego, so a lot of what I buy was made there.


----------



## mike_camden (Dec 11, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> 1. Most providers aren't yet offering M-cards.
> 
> 2. Most CSRs, techs, etc, don't know anything about M-cards or how to get them installed into the system.


The Comcast CSR I spoke with when arranging for the cable card install had no idea what an M-card was. After about 30 minutes of her checking around and discussing with her supervisor, she still didn't know what an M-card was. She finally found something in the system that listed something like 4Q2008 for M-card availability in our area.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> Just to add something 'new' to this thread. I just observed that my Tivo HD is manufactured in Mexico.
> 
> I have some really bad experiences with Mexico produced electronics. Does anyone know if the Series 3 was also manufactured there?


Hate to add to this, but I noticed the SA cable cards are also manufactured there, thank you NAFTA.


----------



## A-1 (Mar 12, 2007)

Tivo Hd Es No Bueno!


----------



## Tallguy001 (Sep 5, 2003)

My problems on card 2 seem to be solved with the updated software (TWC - Scientifc Atlanta cablecards). I'll keep my fingers crossed! 

In response to the m-card question, my provider did not know what they were (no shock).


----------



## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Another thread says that this might be fixed.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361066


----------



## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

I contacted TiVo and they issued this statement:


> We are aware that a small subset of TiVo HD users have reported experiencing some macroblocking on certain channels. We are gathering appropriate information about the issue to understand possible causes and hope to be able to resolve any known issues as soon as possible. We released a software update on August 1st that should fix this issue for many users.


 So it sounds like there may still be issues for some, but they've fixed at least some of the causes.


----------



## GoldenTiger (Apr 11, 2002)

megazone said:


> I contacted TiVo and they issued this statement: So it sounds like there may still be issues for some, but they've fixed at least some of the causes.


I am having the issue still with BOTH card slots on my TivoHD with Scientific Atlanta cablecards on Comcast in southwestern Connecticut. Before the cablecards were installed, I had no issues at all... once they were installed, there has been huge macro-blocking very often (once every minute or more at times on some channels such as my locals and especially HD premiums like TNT-HD). I really hope today's patch isn't the end of the fixes, because for me, it did not do anything (I am on the newest version as of this posting according to the system information screen).

I really don't want to have to return my TiVoHD's to the store due to this, as I enjoy TiVo's boxes much more than the cableco. ones and have for several years.

Anyone have the contact info page for TiVo so I can try to email them regarding my issues?


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Chimpware said:


> I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so. I just went through my installation of 2 cable cards each, in the 2 Tivo HD units I bought this past weekend. In both cases Cable Card Slot 2, on both Tivos does not tune most of the digital channels and has heavy pixelation, and Cable Card Slot 1, while it does tune all the stations it is supposed to has pixelation even few minutes briefly. In both cases the Tivo is hooked up to the same cable that I had an 8300 HD on.


Did you do anything to verify it was an issue with the TiVo and not the CableCards? What did you do? The cable company went through 4 cable cards with my TV when I first bought it, and then blamed the brand new TV. I had the Video store replace the TV, and it still had the same problems. After going through six, they finally found one which worked. When I got my first Series III TiVo, I moved the card over to the TiVo and it worked just fine, but the card the CATV company brought out would not work. A second card came up just fine. When I got my second TiVo, they went through four more cards which would not work, and the installer wanted to blame the TiVo, so I forced him to move the old cards to the new TiVo. They worked fine. The new cards would not work in the old TiVo, though, so he tried to blame it on an incompatibility between TiVos in general and the newer cable cards. I forced him to try the new cards in the Television directly, and guess what? They didn't work ther, either. Having finally convinced him (or at least eliminating his allegations), he then spent several more hours on the phone having the same argument with a series of people who knew nothing mroe of the matter than he did. Every one of them wanted to get rid of the problem in front of them by blaming the consumer's equipment. Note this young man spoke very eloquently and was very poilite, and I suspect the average layman might have thought he knew very much of what he was speaking, but the fact is he hadn't a clue, and neither did anyone in the chain of support people on the line. Believe me, polite or not, I know extremely well how few cable technicians and how very many fewer installers have more than a vague idea how even basic cable TV works. I know because I was a CATV engineer for several years.

Think about it. Which is more attractive for a support person faced with a difficult problem and under pressure to complete as many calls as possible: dig deep into a complex and mystifying technical issue which may in the end be very difficult and time consuming to fix, or convince the customer the issue is with his equipment or even better some other vendor's product line? Five minutes of hot air or five hours of troubleshooting in unfamiliar territory with the boss breathing down one's neck to move on to thenext call?

The end of my saga was he was not able to find another Cable Card that evening (after eight hours!) which worked, but he showed up the next day with an older card which did work. He promised to return, but didn't so I called back and scheduled yet another visit two days later, at which point the installer went through 3 more Cable Cards before finding one which worked. The end total? One new TV replaced, 14 bad Cable Cards, and 2 TiVos, neither of which was replaced. *TEN* days spent waiting for CATV or video store techs. So now why do you think it's the TiVos and not the CATV system or the Cable Cards?



Chimpware said:


> Cablevision did this not problem, and again Cable Card Slot 2 had same issues.


I have read there was a slot 2 issue with the TiVo HD, but I also read there was a fix pushed out to them. I cannot personally confirm, as I have Series IIIs, not TiVo HDs.



Chimpware said:


> All the people at Cablevision were helpful and in no way did I feel they were adding to the problem so I would use their products and services.


Are you certain they were truly helpful, or just polite?



Chimpware said:


> I am convinced Tivo has a serious issue on their hands here.


Why? What evidence do you have it is a systemic problem with the TiVo and not the CATV system or the CableCards?



Chimpware said:


> I bought the 2 Tivos from 2 different Circuit City stores this weekend so the odds that 2 separate units from 2 spearate stores exhibit the same issue seems like a big problem.


How can the probablity of an event be a problem? (Answer: it can't) If you are trying to say it seems unlikely 2 different units from different stores would have the same problem unless there is a systemic problem with the hardware, then I would say your sample size is too small to make any real judgements concerning how widespread a problem may be. First, however, I would say you haven't presented us with any evidence which suggests the problem is with the TiVos and not the Cable Cards or the CATV system.



Chimpware said:


> If you check out others experiences on the board you will find very similar results.


I've seen a number of posts complaining of problems. I have seen very few who have given strong objective evidence the TiVos are at fault.



Chimpware said:


> I have to say all through this Cablevision was fantastic, the Tech was knowledgeable


How do you know? Did you ask him what type of modulation is employed by the digital streams? Did you ask him how susceptible the digital streams are to intermodulation distortion? Did you ask him what the relationship between 3rd order distortion and signal levels are? Asking highly specific questions such as this is the only way to tell if a tech is truly as knowledgeable as he would like you to believe he is. I've had plenty of glib tech support people try to snow me with slick sounding hogwash.



Chimpware said:


> It appears from my testing that all 4 cards worked,


In slot 1 but not slot 2, you mean? You're being a little vague, I'm afraid.



Chimpware said:


> and when I called to rebind I was on hold for only a minute, and only spent a total of 10 minutes on the call.


I don't know where your service is, but it's been over 20 years since I was able to get through to tech support with my local CATV company without spending at least 30 minutes on hold. Even when I worked for them, I would usually spend several minutes getting through to dispatch, and I had the direct dial in numbers. I sometimes had to wait ten minutes or more on the radio, fer chrissake. I must admit my experience has been the same with TiVo, but then just this evening I also spent 40 minutes on hold with Sprint tech support before their ARU dumped me. I've also had the same experience with Hewlett Packard, Nortel, Microsoft, Vonage...



Chimpware said:


> I take back every bad thing I have said about the SA 8300 HD, as much as I don't like many of the ways it works and find it annoying, it does 1 thing Tivo HD does not, and that is WORK!


I had an SA 8300 before the Series III came out, and I had quite a few problems with it, including fairly regular pixelization. I suspect in most cases this is an artifact of the CATV transmission system, however. The few problems I have had with the TiVo, on the other hand, don't even come close to the constant, blistering aggravation of dealing with the 8300. The TiVo's only were a problem - highly aggravating though it may have been - during the first few days of their respective installation periods, which is nothing. After all, I am not going to install them ever again. At that, the issues were not being caused by the TiVos themselves. Being put off by installation problems is a childish - albeit all too widespread - response to a new technology. I hear people complaining all the time about who difficult something was to install. *WHO CARES!!!* Something's being difficult to install is not worthy of consideration in evaluating a product. With the SA 8300, however, I cursed fluently and nearly continuously every single time I had to mess with the damned thing.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> Did you do anything to verify it was an issue with the TiVo and not the CableCards? What did you do? ....Etc. Etc. Etc.


Dude, I would get in the habit of reading the entire thread before I posted long winded diatribes with multiple questions that are actually answered in the thread...

Long story short, it *WAS* a Tivo issue predominantly as I originally asserted, but Tivo blamed Cablevision and the cards and I wasted an entire day on this and then they pushed a new version of the software and Slot 2 issue was resolved. So I guess my sample size was fine to reach the conclusions I reached huh? Why was this a systematic issue, better read some other threads dude, it was, and again I was correct.

Did I quiz the cable tech. to ensure he had an up to date PhD in electrical engineering? No. Did he understand the basics regarding EMM, ECM, etc? Yeah. Had he done Tivo 3 installs before? Yeah. Did he spent 5 hours at my house helping me troubleshoot the issue after it only took about 1 hour to get the cards installed and bound? Yeah. Was it a waste of his time, and was Tivo eventually found to be at fault for Slot 2 issue, Yeah.

Still have random pixelation issue and video cuts out when watching TivoCast programs randomly over non-digital connection to TV. I also still have an 8300HD sitting right next to the Tivo HD and no pixelation issues, although I have returned 2 8300 HD units over the past year when they became buggy. Difference is it take only about 1 hour total to replace 8300, drive to cable store, hand them old one, they hand me a new one, when I get home I conenct it and it is ready to go.

Being put off by installtion probelms is childish? Huh, well this is not installation problems and if I had spent all day on this and in the end had a working unit with no pixelation or other issues I would not have posted. This was a software issue when I originally posted, not an installation issue. They needed to push a patch to repair it, not have Cablevision spend more time working on the supposed cable card issue. There is still a software issue (or potentially hardware, but I hope not), not a signal, or cable card issue that needs to be fixed to repair the pixelation issue that many of us are experiencing.

So in the end *WHO CARES*? I do and so do many of the people on this board and the potential purchaser who I was trying to warn about a terrible initial experience. If you don't care about these things, and your time does not have any value to you, great, skip the post and move on.


----------



## Saturn (Apr 10, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> I hear people complaining all the time about who difficult something was to install. *WHO CARES!!!* Something's being difficult to install is not worthy of consideration in evaluating a product.


It absolutely IS worthy of consideration in evaluating a product. Examples:

Linux can be a bear to install, there's no way I'd ever recommend it to anybody but my most savvy friends.

Windows XP can be a bear to install, that's why the manufacturer does it for you.

Sometimes things are SO difficult to install that they just never work. Example:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/ocur
Long story short, two cable card PCs were shipped to a magazine to review. The top techs at the cable company AND MICROSOFT DEVELOPERS couldn't get either working. So do you think it deserves a glowing review anyway? Do you think the average consumer is going to have access to Microsoft Developers to get their problem fixed?

People buy and recommend TiVo because _It Just Works_. When it doesn't, even just for the install, the entire product is marred.


----------



## ChrisPA (Aug 3, 2007)

I agree installation (and correct operation) is a serious consideration. As I mentioned in my very first post, I just picked up a TivoHD after hearing about the brand for years. 

I'm using a direct cable connection into the Tivo to tune broadcast HD stations, exactly as I've been doing for the last 6 months with my plasma doing the tuning. I honestly can't recall seeing any problems in that time. I'm moved to Tivo so that I could get all the encrypted stations by using a cablecard (plasma does not have cablecard slot), but I haven't had a card setup yet and am just using the cable line directly into the Tivo.

Both before and after the software update, I'm experiencing video artifacts as well as the occasional audio hiccup on network HD stations. 

Putting aside the disappointment with the speed of the GUI (which is surprising since the SD units didn't exhibit this problem), I am worried that this problem will not get fixed in the next 26 days and I will have to return the unit. If no progress has been made (and on my unit - that does not use a cablecard - nothing changed with the software update), I will have to return it rather than take the chance that these issues will never get fixed. Ugh... its very dissapointing to me because the only reason I've waited to get a Tivo was because I was waiting on an affordable HD version... 
Now that its finally here, could it be the first one that doesn't truly provide the "Tivo experience"


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

We've already seen a report that Tivo is going to be setting up their own support for Cable Card installations on Tivo units because the cable co's are falling flat on their faces with it.

The new Tivo HD does seem to have some issues though with the quality of the tuning/decoding and Tivo better work fast to fix it.

If someone is having trouble the best thing they can do is return the unit. I can assure everyone that nothing motivates a manufacturer faster to get their stuff fixed than a pile of units showing up returned at retail.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

ChrisPA said:


> I
> Putting aside the disappointment with the speed of the GUI (which is surprising since the SD units didn't exhibit this problem), I am worried that this problem will not get fixed in the next 26 days and I will have to return the unit. If no progress has been made (and on my unit - that does not use a cablecard - nothing changed with the software update), I will have to return it rather than take the chance that these issues will never get fixed. Ugh... its very dissapointing to me because the only reason I've waited to get a Tivo was because I was waiting on an affordable HD version...
> Now that its finally here, could it be the first one that doesn't truly provide the "Tivo experience"


The GUI responsiveness issues will almost certainly be addressed with the THD/S3 code bases are merged. Early S3 users (myself included) saw this as well.

No disrespect, but the "if Tivo doesn't fix [insert problem]" complaints happen with every hardware and software release. Despite what some seem to think, Tivo has been very responsive fixing critical bugs.

This box is Tivo's future for the stand-alone market - you can bet anything you want that Tivo wlil use the necessary engineering resources to make this box as solid as can be.

Be patient. Tivo is worth it.


----------



## Ripcord2 (Jun 6, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> I gave them the option of sending someone from Tivo to sit at my house and work with Cablevision to get it working, or reimburse me for my time. They were not happy with either choice.


I don't blame them. Those are fairly ridiculous options.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> This box is Tivo's future for the stand-alone market - you can bet anything you want that Tivo wlil use the necessary engineering resources to make this box as solid as can be.
> 
> Be patient. Tivo is worth it.


I wouldn't mind being patient IF

1) I was *sure* the problems would be fixed. E.g. many people have been waiting for close to 1 year for things like MRV, but nothing yet.

2) I was *sure* that everything could be fixed in software. What if there are hardware bugs that can't be worked around?

TiVo's got about 3 weeks before I need to make a decision before my 30 day return period runs out.


----------



## GoldenTiger (Apr 11, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I wouldn't mind being patient IF
> 
> 1) I was *sure* the problems would be fixed. E.g. many people have been waiting for close to 1 year for things like MRV, but nothing yet.
> 
> ...


Same here, problems persisting with me as well on pixelization/artifacting on both CableCARDs. This needs to be fixed or I will unfortunately be utilizing my return policy on these 2 units. They've got about 3 weeks with me as well.


----------



## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> We've already seen a report that Tivo is going to be setting up their own support for Cable Card installations on Tivo units because the cable co's are falling flat on their faces with it.


Which report is this, and how would that work? The keycard and pairig info has to be entered into the headend of the local cable system, which TiVo certainly can't access.


----------



## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I wouldn't mind being patient IF
> 
> 1) I was *sure* the problems would be fixed. E.g. many people have been waiting for close to 1 year for things like MRV, but nothing yet.
> 
> ...


Lack of MRV isn't a "problem". It's a feature that isn't on the Series3 boxes, but it wasn't advertised with the feature and shouldn't be consider a "problem" in terms of bugs.

But, #2 is valid--software fixes are one thing, but if a new platform has hardware issues, it's a bit harder to address.

I bought a Series3 knowing MRV and TTG weren't enabled. I was realistic in thinking they may never be. There were no promises by TiVo that those features would ever exist.

I bought a TiVoHD a few days ago knowing that there were potential slot2 cable card issues. That same night a software update rolled out that has apparently addressed most of these issues.

My CableCard install is scheduled for 8/11. If I have CC issues with the TiVo HD box, then I'll have some time to resolve them (if capable) or I'll take the box back.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

vman41 said:


> Which report is this, and how would that work? The keycard and pairig info has to be entered into the headend of the local cable system, which TiVo certainly can't access.


'

I don't have time to search around right now, but it was a comment from a Tivo executive that was reported in a thread here not too long ago.

I believe that Tivo would just be helping with technical issues related to cable card installation. They might get the cable company on the line with them to help sort out issues and avoid the blame game getting played when consumers are having trouble with their cable card installation.

Since presumably Tivo has tested most configurations in their labs this seems like something they could do.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Toeside said:


> I bought a Series3 knowing MRV and TTG weren't enabled. I was realistic in thinking they may never be. There were no promises by TiVo that those features would ever exist.


I agree there were no promises for S3. But it's different for TiVo HD. This time, "promises" *are* being made. Here is FAQ Q/A from this site:

_*Are TiVoToGo and Multi-Room Viewing available on TiVo HD?*

TiVoToGo and Multi-Room Viewing are not currently available on the TiVo HD DVR. We expect that a version of TiVoToGo and Multi-Room Viewing features will be made available for the TiVo HD DVR in the future._

Elsewhere I've read end of the year for S3, with TiVo HD to follow shortly thereafter. It's astonishing to me how slowly TiVo has improved the S3 features. They should fire about 15 VPs and use the money to hire 15 competent programmers.


----------



## wbertram (Jun 14, 2002)

Chimpware said:


> Hate to add to this, but I noticed the SA cable cards are also manufactured there, thank you NAFTA.


The situation was that way a long time before NAFTA arrived!

I had a 1979 Buick with a transistorized heater fan speed control module. The module required replacement about once a year. Guess what - Modules were assembled for/by GM in Mexico! That was almost 30 years ago.


----------



## Cynicize (Mar 14, 2005)

Chimpware said:


> I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so. I just went through my installation of 2 cable cards each, in the 2 Tivo HD units I bought this past weekend. In both cases Cable Card Slot 2, on both Tivos does not tune most of the digital channels and has heavy pixelation, and Cable Card Slot 1, while it does tune all the stations it is supposed to has pixelation even few minutes briefly. In both cases the Tivo is hooked up to the same cable that I had an 8300 HD on.
> 
> I spent a 1/2 hour on hold waiting for Tivo Tech support, who then walked me through reading information off the screen without any ideas as to how to remedy this problem. Eventually I switched the cards in one of the Tivos and called Cablevision to rebind the cards. Cablevision did this not problem, and again Cable Card Slot 2 had same issues. All the people at Cablevision were helpful and in no way did I feel they were adding to the problem so I would use their products and services.
> 
> ...


If that surprises you, I'm 100% sure you don't have an Xbox 360 with Guitar Hero II that you bought from CC. LOTS of people had problems with their whammy bars being completely limp (hehe) and not usable.

In the "I'm not trying to call you a liar..." department..I'm not. But we'll see. I just got mine today. CableCards (Cox) coming Thursday. Yippee!


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

Just have to say that, after reading this thread and the umpteen others that exist outlining all the problems with the S3 and cable cards, I am *very* happy I opted to go with a Time Warner HD DVR. No, it doesn't have MRV or the ability to transfer programs to a PC but either does the S3. Yes, TiVo says those features are coming soon, just like their agreements with Netflix and Rhapsody were "coming soon".

My HD DVR installation went like this: Call TW to make sure they had an HD DVR at their office nearest to me. They said they did, took my information and said they'd have it waiting for me. Unhook current non-HD TW cable box. Drive 12 minutes to nearest TW office, walk in, hand old box and remote to CSR, show my ID, provide last 4 of social sec #, get new box and remote and walk out. Drive home. Install new box. Power up new box. Total time for 100% successful installation of my new HD DVR including drive time: 45 minutes

Up until the release of the S3, I was a happy Tivo ower. No, I was an extremely happy TiVo owner. Still am, to some degree. I have 3 S2's and love them and all their bells and whistles. I've been responsible for half a dozen or so friends and family members buying an S2 TiVo DVR. But given the price and the shortcomings of the S3, I just couldn't justify going with that over a TW HD DVR. I do sympathize with TiVo and their customers who want to upgrade to a TiVo HD DVR. Currently, they're at the mercy of the cable companies and this whole cable card fiasco. Does anyone believe it's merely coincidence that so many TiVo owners are having so many problems with their cable co. and the installation of the cards? I don't. I think it's a ploy, an effective one at that, on the part of the cable companies to, how can I put this delicately....._encourage_ their customers to opt for one of their own DVR's rather than one from a competitor. Couple the cost of the S3 (and the fact that it's missing the 2 features a lot of TiVo owners like most such as MVR and TTG) along with the numerous documented problems Tivo customers are having with the installation of their cable cards and you have a not so pleasant scenario, at least for the near future for TiVo customers looking to upgrade to an HD DVR.


----------



## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

Chimpware said:


> Hate to add to this, but I noticed the SA cable cards are also manufactured there, thank you NAFTA.


I'd rather buy from Mexico than China.


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Just have to say that, after reading this thread and the umpteen others that exist outlining all the problems with the S3 and cable cards, I am *very* happy I opted to go with a Time Warner HD DVR. No, it doesn't have MRV or the ability to transfer programs to a PC but either does the S3. Yes, TiVo says those features are coming soon, just like their agreements with Netflix and Rhapsody were "coming soon".
> 
> My HD DVR installation went like this: Call TW to make sure they had an HD DVR at their office nearest to me. They said they did, took my information and said they'd have it waiting for me. Unhook current non-HD TW cable box. Drive 12 minutes to nearest TW office, walk in, hand old box and remote to CSR, show my ID, provide last 4 of social sec #, get new box and remote and walk out. Drive home. Install new box. Power up new box. Total time for 100% successful installation of my new HD DVR including drive time: 45 minutes
> 
> Up until the release of the S3, I was a happy Tivo ower. No, I was an extremely happy TiVo owner. Still am, to some degree. I have 3 S2's and love them and all their bells and whistles. I've been responsible for half a dozen or so friends and family members buying an S2 TiVo DVR. But given the price and the shortcomings of the S3, I just couldn't justify going with that over a TW HD DVR. I do sympathize with TiVo and their customers who want to upgrade to a TiVo HD DVR. Currently, they're at the mercy of the cable companies and this whole cable card fiasco. Does anyone believe it's merely coincidence that so many TiVo owners are having so many problems with their cable co. and the installation of the cards? I don't. I think it's a ploy, an effective one at that, on the part of the cable companies to, how can I put this delicately....._encourage_ their customers to opt for one of their own DVR's rather than one from a competitor. Couple the cost of the S3 (and the fact that it's missing the 2 features a lot of TiVo owners like most such as MVR and TTG) along with the numerous documented problems Tivo customers are having with the installation of their cable cards and you have a not so pleasant scenario, at least for the near future for TiVo customers looking to upgrade to an HD DVR.


I have two S3s and a TWC DVR (because it's included in my programming package). It took as many visits by TWC to get the DVR working as it did the S3. I've enjoyed months of problem free use of my S3s and the few times I have used the DVR makes me appreciate that I have TiVo as an alternative.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

kb7oeb said:


> I'd rather buy from Mexico than China.


While I like _Mexico_ a lot better than _China_ I will take Chinese electronics over Mexican electronics any day of the week.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

I'll take a slightly functionally-impacted TiVo over a cable company DVR any day of the week.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> I'll take a slightly functionally-impacted TiVo over a cable company DVR any day of the week.


Certainly your perogative. I just wanted to let people know who were considering this purchase what they were actually get themselves into. This is not the Tivo experience I had had it the past with both my Series 1 Sony branded Tivo, or the DirecTivo units I have owned.


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

Kablemodem said:


> I have two S3s and a TWC DVR (because it's included in my programming package). It took as many visits by TWC to get the DVR working as it did the S3. I've enjoyed months of problem free use of my S3s and the few times I have used the DVR makes me appreciate that I have TiVo as an alternative.


I guess it's just the luck of the draw. I just couldn't justify gambling with the possibility of enduring the same nightmares a lot of new S3 owners have encountered with TWC and cable card installs (see this forum). Not to mention the overall cost, including subscription fees of an S3 compared to that of a TW DVR. Maybe once the cost of the S3 comes down, as it surely will, and when TiVo gets their act together and offers MRV and TTG on S3's, I'd change back but until all of that happens, I'll be happy with my S2's and my TW DVR.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

TiVotion said:


> I'll take a slightly functionally-impacted TiVo over a cable company DVR any day of the week.


"slightly" functionally impaired?

You're kidding right?



Slow channel changes (several seconds at least, longer on some channels)
Slow menus (dirt slow)
Random lockups (shows don't tape when the box is locked up)
Pixelation on digital/HD shows (with 100% signal strength)
Much higher cost

I'm a previous DirecTivo owner who was really happy with my DirecTivo experience and found it very painful making the switch to the Comcast DVR (which I needed to do to get HD at the time).

Now that I'm comparing how my Comcast DVR worked with how this Tivo HD works I'm having a hard time justifying why I'm spending all this extra money for a Tivo that doesn't work well.

If this sounds harsh, well, it is. I didn't spend all the $$$ to be a Tivo beta tester. I can see one or two bugs, but certainly not hard lockups, slow menus and video that is pixelated. In my opinion Tivo deserves the harsh treatment they are getting from some of us.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> "slightly" functionally impaired?
> 
> You're kidding right?
> 
> ...


Could not agree with with every sentiment. I too had DirecTivo, wnet to Cablevision DVR for HD and could not wait to get back into the Tivo fold. I also am not interest in being a paying Beta tester.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

For all the complaints of functionality and useability that seem to go on here, some are valid and some aren't. Some are subjective and some are aren't.

Personally, I may be experiencing pixilation on some channels, but for me personally the box isn't unusable, and it's not enough of a distraction not to watch TV on it. I'm sure that varies from box to box and user to user. In my setting, my issues make the box slightly functionally impaired, at worst.

For people who constantly complain about how much the TiVo box costs, or how unhappy they are with how fast the menus are relative to their cable DVRs, why not just return the TiVo equipment and go back to the cable company equipment? The pixilation issue with the HD box is real, just as it was real with the S3 boxes. Like the S3 boxes, I'm sure that TiVo has the ability to correct that issue for the majority of users. If you believe that TiVo will fix it, then wait. If you don't, then get off the boat. In the meantime, to continually complain about the cost of the box and the functionality of the box compared to "x" adds nothing. Either wait for a fix or return the equipment and go back to the cable company equipment. It's that simple.

Everyone has their own threshold for pain, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to subscribe to it.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

There are two pixelation issues going on:

1) Annoying, but bearable pixelation, mostly not seen in the recording (probably video driver related).

2) Horribly, unwatchable pixelation on most, if not all channels.

The latter is what many of us are experiencing, usually when using a second CC. I'm the biggest proponent of signal issues causing problems, but this isn't a signal issue. It's something bizarre in the design and/or software and/or hardware. 

If it's a hardware issue, they've got a huge problem on their hands.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

It *should* bother you and others who love Tivo that people would consider going back to a cable company DVR for a better experience.

Tivo needs mass market adoption at some level to be profitable and buggy boxes probably won't get the job done, regardless of price.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> The pixilation issue with the HD box is real, just as it was real with the S3 boxes. Like the S3 boxes, I'm sure that TiVo has the ability to correct that issue for the majority of users.


Why do people write stuff like " I am sure..."? Based on what? Do you work for Tivo?


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> It *should* bother you and others who love Tivo that people would consider going back to a cable company DVR for a better experience.


You know, this is another thing that bothers me. I don't know if you've been monitoring the "Official Time Warner Cable" thread but there are now 6 pages and 1,935 posts. Easily 90% of those are horror stories from S3 owners from across the country (my area included) relating their total dissatisfaction with TWC and non-functioning cards and/or their techs not knowing what they're doing. Yet, TiVo has been mute on this whole thing, or at least from what I can tell they have been. I'm sure most of us get those monthly emails from TiVo telling us all the cool things that are happening so why can't they use that avenue of communication to at least acknowledge the problem with TWC (and perhaps other companies as well) and the cable card installs? Do *something* TiVo. Blow smoke up our butts and say something like you're aware of the problems and you're working with TWC to get the problem rectified. Instead, they're apparently staying mute which creates the perception they're either helpless or they just don't care about those who are TWC/S3 users and they're being left to fend for themselves. I tend to believe it's the former but, either way, there's no way I'd invest the $$$ on an S3 right now, especially one that can't do all the things an S2 can, knowing what I'm in for when it comes time to having TWC install the cable cards.

Am I _bashing_ TiVo? Perhaps, yes. But given their apparent lack of attention to the TWC/cable card problems, I don't think the bashing is unwarranted.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Why would TiVo want to tick off the cable companies when they've already said that cable is the future of Tivo?

Tivo is *probably* looking at a much larger slice of revenue from Tivo software running on cable boxes than they get from all of their branded box customers combined.


----------



## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> Why do people write stuff like " I am sure..."? Based on what? Do you work for Tivo?


For those of us who have been with TiVo on the S2 platform over the past 2-3 years, they always put their best foot forward to get problems resolved. Sometimes, since TiVo software is in a constant state of development (which sets it apart from the generic cable DVRs), problems do arise. The pixelation problem is a MAJOR problem.

I remember a couple of major bugs in the past two years that TiVo recognized from this board and remedied. When KidZone was released, that upgrade broke a lot of standard features and slowed the GUI down considerably. TiVo fixed that in fairly timely fashion.

When the Series 2 DT was released, people had a lot of difficulty getting the tuners to record in stereo--some worried it was a hardware issue. TiVo fixed that as well with some time and testing.

Like it or not, the Series 3 platform is new. Obviously, a lot of the kinks haven't been completely worked out. If your TivoHD isn't usable at all due to pixelation, return it within the 30 day window. You could always come back to TiVo in a couple of months when the bugs are worked out. If you consider the problem annoying but not a deal-breaker, wait it out. It will get fixed, like all the other (major) bugs from the past.


----------



## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

The Tivo HD PVR was launched this past July, according to the Tivo Rep I just spoke with via phone this unit was not to have been released to the public until August of 08.

I was assured that Tivo is working on an software update for the problems addressed here. 

And will be released within the following week. 

So, all we can do is wait for them to correct these issues in an timely manner. Or? Go back to our cable companies equipment. Which i for one will not do, what with their negative response in dealing with all of these problems claiming their equipment is far superior to that of Tivo. Yeah right, were this the case we wouldn't have purchased a TIVO in the first place. Agreed?


----------



## TXTivoUser (Nov 27, 2002)

aus1ander said:


> For those of us who have been with TiVo on the S2 platform over the past 2-3 years, they always put their best foot forward to get problems resolved. Sometimes, since TiVo software is in a constant state of development (which sets it apart from the generic cable DVRs), problems do arise. The pixelation problem is a MAJOR problem.
> 
> I remember a couple of major bugs in the past two years that TiVo recognized from this board and remedied. When KidZone was released, that upgrade broke a lot of standard features and slowed the GUI down considerably. TiVo fixed that in fairly timely fashion.
> 
> ...


Well said. I don't even have my cable cards yet to even know if I'm going to have this or any other problems, but you can be absolutely assured that I'm giving TiVo every last second of my 30 day trial before I make my decision. As long as the shows are watchable and there are no major distractions, then I'm in for the long haul. As soon as my 30 day trial is up, you can also bet that I'm going to fork over the cash to expand the HD capacity as well. I'm sure TiVo will continue to fix things - someone else mentioned that it's a constant developmen cycle.

I still have my FIOS DVR and it's full of bugs and major annoyances, but it's a dead platform and VZ didn't seem to give a rats patootie about the complaints. Even their new IMG stuff that's rolling out is just a new shell on the same old crap. They didn't even listen to their consumers on what they wanted - at least TiVo does. Once the cable co's get their license from TiVo to make their flavor of it, they pretty much fix all the glaring issues that are present on that companies hardware and that's it. No new features, very few and far between service updates. It was that way with D*TV and it'll be that way with Comcast or TWC (or whoever picks up TiVo on the cable side).


----------



## jmace57 (Nov 30, 2002)

TokyoShoe said:


> You might be on to something here.
> I have 2 Motorola Cards (ComCast Houston uses only these), and so far have zero problems in either slot. My first two cards paired up and started working right off the bat. Still no quality issues either.
> 
> If I had an SA Card to test with, I could help test this theory. Unfortunately all I have are Motorola cards.


Sorry to throw a wrench in this, but I am in the Houston area as well - I have Motorola cards - and intemittent pixellation...epecially on card 2.

Jim


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> Why would TiVo want to tick off the cable companies when they've already said that cable is the future of Tivo?


I don't think anyone is saying TiVo has to tick off the cable companies All I suggested is that TiVo at least *acknowledge* the problems their customers are having with the cable card installations. I don't see how burying your head in the sand, which seems to be TiVo's way of addressing the problem, can have anything but a negative effect on their business. I know it cost them my business. I'm perfectly happy with my TWC HD DVR. Does it have all the bells and whistles that my S2 has? Nope; but either do the current S3's. I have to wonder how many other TiVo customers went with a cable HD DVR rather than an S3 simply because they didn't want to deal with the cable card hassles.


----------



## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> I don't think anyone is saying TiVo has to tick off the cable companies All I suggested is that TiVo at least *acknowledge* the problems their customers are having with the cable card installations. I don't see how burying your head in the sand, which seems to be TiVo's way of addressing the problem, can have anything but a negative effect on their business. I know it cost them my business. I'm perfectly happy with my TWC HD DVR. Does it have all the bells and whistles that my S2 has? Nope; but either do the current S3's. I have to wonder how many other TiVo customers went with a cable HD DVR rather than an S3 simply because they didn't want to deal with the cable card hassles.


They have. You should search on the member "TiVoPony". He's in TiVo Marketing and one of the primary TiVo employees that monitors the boards.

\TiVoPony from a TiVoHD Pixalation Thread...see below.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361495

August 6, 2007

We are aware that some of you are still reporting macroblocking or pixelation on certain channels. The team here continues to gather information to understand possible causes - they're making good headway.

The update we released on August 1st has proven to fix the issue for some customers, and we are working hard on a fix for the remaining cases. We will provide more concrete information as we can.

In the meantime, we appreciate your patience and the detailed feedback you've been providing.

Pony

__________________
TiVo Product Marketing
Report Post


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

jmace57 said:


> Sorry to throw a wrench in this, but I am in the Houston area as well - I have Motorola cards - and intemittent pixellation...epecially on card 2.
> 
> Jim


I have an M card in my HD and the only channel I get pixelation on is Halmark, they are sending a tech on Sunday.


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

d_anders said:


> They have. You should search on the member "TiVoPony". He's in TiVo Marketing and one of the primary TiVo employees that monitors the boards.
> 
> \TiVoPony from a TiVoHD Pixalation Thread...see below.
> 
> ...


OK, first, that thread addresses a pixalation problem, not the cable card installation problem that who knows how many S3 owners are experiencing ("The Official Time Warner Cable" thread is now up to 1,940 posts with the vast majority of those reporting terrible experiences with TW and the cable card installs). Secondly, not every S3 owner is even aware this board exists, not to mention actually reads it.

TiVo has the ability to contact their subscribers via email, via the TiVo website, and via the message feature on the Now Playing menu. There is absolutely no excuse for them to simply ignore what is an obvious problem for S3 owners getting their cable cards installed correctly by the cable companies.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Saturn said:


> It absolutely IS worthy of consideration in evaluating a product.


Worrying about a few hours' of mild (or even severe) consternation in a product which promises years of enjoyment is worthy of consideration? Like I said: childish.



Saturn said:


> Linux can be a bear to install, there's no way I'd ever recommend it to anybody but my most savvy friends.


I've done quite a number of Linux installs from several different distributions over the last few years. None of the base installations were difficult. My brother knows almost nothing about Linux, yet he regularly re-installs or upgrades Linux on his computer whenever he buys a new CPU or a Linux upgrade comes out with features he wants.

Personally I don't recommend anyone purchase a computer who would consider Linux difficult, but that's another matter. What can be difficult is maintaining Linux, but it's a Hell of a lot easier than maintaining a Windows system, but then that is pretty much impossible by design.

Setting up a Linux server can be very challenging, but that is also another matter.



Saturn said:


> Windows XP can be a bear to install, that's why the manufacturer does it for you.


What have you been smoking? XP is trivial to install. The reason it (and previous MS Operating systems) is pre-installed is because Microsoft was successful in extorting all the major retailers to do so. If they refuse, or agree to pre-load any other software, Microsoft will yank their distribution rights to sell MS software at all.



Saturn said:


> Sometimes things are SO difficult to install that they just never work.


In that case, it's not a matter of being difficult to install, it's a matter of it not working, period. That's a very different thing. It's also why XP (especially HE, but also XP Pro) deserves a truly bad evaluation. Every PC with XP on it I have ever used (and I've used dozens) has continual aggravating issues, and most have required frequent re-installs of the OS. This in itself would not garner the worst rating if it were not for the fact re-installing the OS also requires re-installing all the software. This typically takes several weeks, unless the machine is one which can simply be taken completely out of production for several days. A machine used that infrequently may not need to exist, at all.



Saturn said:


> Long story short, two cable card PCs were shipped to a magazine to review. The top techs at the cable company AND MICROSOFT DEVELOPERS couldn't get either working. So do you think it deserves a glowing review anyway?


I submit they would possibly have had a much better chance at getting it working if the Microsoft developers weren't there.



Saturn said:


> Do you think the average consumer is going to have access to Microsoft Developers to get their problem fixed?


No, which is another good reason people should refuse to use Microsoft products. Most Linux developers are very readily available to the user.



Saturn said:


> People buy and recommend TiVo because _It Just Works_. When it doesn't, even just for the install, the entire product is marred.


That behavior, as I pointed out, is childish. Americans just have to have it now. They don't want to work for it, and they don't want to wait for it, and if they do they whine endlessly about how difficult their lives are. Working for something fills one with a sense of accomplishment, sometimes far greater than achieving it. Waiting for something allows for enjoying the anticipation and heightens the pleasure obtained when at last it does come. No wonder so many of us complain about how empty their lives are.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Easily 90% of those are horror stories from S3 owners from across the country (my area included) relating their total dissatisfaction with TWC and non-functioning cards and/or their techs not knowing what they're doing. Yet, TiVo has been mute on this whole thing, or at least from what I can tell they have been.


Of course they have! Why would TiVo remark on another company's practices, especially a company with whom they must maintain at least a professionally cordial relationship?



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> so why can't they use that avenue of communication to at least acknowledge the problem with TWC (and perhaps other companies as well) and the cable card installs?


Well, maybe because it would be unethical? Maybe because it would really damage their reputation, not to mention any chance of a future partnership agreement with one of the largest providers of DVRs to consumers in the world? Maybe because they don't want to get their asses sued off?



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Blow smoke up our butts and say something like you're aware of the problems and you're working with TWC to get the problem rectified.


Becasue Im sure they are not. It's certainly not their responsibility. For that matter, the numbers of TiVo's with CableCards is much smaller than the numbers of other devices (televisions, mostly) with CableCards, and the other devices are having as much trouble as TiVos are. What makes it particularly TiVo's problem? Are you demanding Sony, Mitsubishi, Sharp, and Toshiba (among others) do the same thing?



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Instead, they're apparently staying mute which creates the perception they're either helpless


In the sense you mean they pretty much are. Do you expect General Motors to step in if Texaco started selling gas which caused problems for lots of automobiles manufactured by GM and others? I have lots of problems in my neighborhood with extended power outages. These also wreak havok with the TiVo (it can't record if the cable goes out with the power outage or after the UPS exhausts). Should I call them to have them work with my local power company to prevent power outages?



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Am I _bashing_ TiVo? Perhaps, yes. But given their apparent lack of attention to the TWC/cable card problems, I don't think the bashing is unwarranted.


It certainly is when you are asking them to do things which are dishonest (blowing smoke), unethical, or legally actionable. No offense, but you really need to do a reality check.


----------



## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

lrhorer said:


> That behavior, as I pointed out, is childish. Americans just have to have it now. They don't want to work for it, and they don't want to wait for it, and if they do they whine endlessly about how difficult their lives are. Working for something fills one with a sense of accomplishment, sometimes far greater than achieving it. Waiting for something allows for enjoying the anticipation and heightens the pleasure obtained when at last it does come. No wonder so many of us complain about how empty their lives are.


LOL, so as a childish American I should be happy when products I work for to buy don't work so I can have the pleasure of wasting my free time to make it work as it should have to begin with?


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> LOL, so as a childish American I should be happy when products I work for to buy don't work so I can have the pleasure of wasting my free time to make it work as it should have to begin with?


As a mature individual - American or otherwise, you should realize that most desirable things will require some effort on your part to work in the fashion which best suits you, and that nothing is perfect. It took quite some weeks to get my Series I TiVo working the way I wanted it. It took some weeks to get my Mitsubishi HD receiver to work with CableCards and to work the way I wanted. I was never fully successful with this, but when I received my first Series III (9 months later), the CableCards moved to the TiVo and I no longer needed the TV to do all the work. Even after 9 months I never could get the SA 8300-HD DVR to work acceptably, let alone t he way I wanted. It took me a couple of weeks to get the first Series III working the way I wanted, mostly. It took me more than a week to get the 2nd series III working the way I wanted, mostly. I'm still working on getting Galleon working with them, and of course I'm waiting for TiVo Desktop Video and MRV to work with them. (I was able to get TiVo Desktop to work for music by putting copies of all my music files in special directories on a Linux server, firing up SAMBA for the parent directory, mapping the directory to a Windows PC, and running TiVo Desktop on the Windows PC. Galleon will be much better solution.)

That said, I must admit I was frustrated by the fact Broadway Poto shipped me TWO bad Optoma projectors in a row, but then that experience took a month and a half to resolve during which time the $4500 projector I purchased was only useable at all for 3 hours total and has cost me $8000 so far - the $3500 cross ship deposit yet to be refunded. Even then I would not have been so perturbed if Broadway Photo had not kept me waiting on hold for many hours (a minimum of 30 minutes per call times more than 15 calls) only then to lie to me repeatedly - almost every call. The last time was Thursday. They swore to me the return unit had not arrived.

"Are you sure?"

"Yes"

"Funny, the last person with whom I spoke last Friday said the same thing, until I gave him the tracking number and signature. He told me the $3500 would be credited to my account on Monday. Here's the tracking number: xxxxxx It was signed for by yyyyyyy"

<Pause> "Oh, oh, yes. There was a problem."

"What problem?"

"Please hold."

<hold music> "OK, sir, your credit card was credited back the $3500 yesterday."

"I looked it up online and called the bank. It has not been credited"

"Well sometimes it takes a couple of days to be approved. Here's the transaction number..."

I called the bank again on Friday afternoon. No credit request had been submitted - approved or otherwise - on Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday prior to 14:00 EDT. It does not take 2 days for a credit request to show up in their system. The supposed transaction number from the bank is not one of theri transaction numbers. I checked online again today. No credit request.

At least the CATV folks were mostly more honest. Two of the seven installers and one of the CSRs did lie to me, but none of the techs and most of the CSRs did not.


----------



## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

Chimpware said:


> I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so.


I guess the OP was not knowledgeable enough to understand that the problem is not with the TiVo HD, but the CableCards.

A good friend of mine just installed a TiVo HD this week and went through the same problems that the OP described, and finally on the THIRD try Comcast got it right and corrected all of the problems with the third set of CableCards.

Without even going to this forum, I realized that based upon his description of the problems that the problem was the CableCards. Although not all problems can be blamed on the CableCards, it appears that a majority of cable companies really don't have a handle on programming, installing, and testing CableCards. 

Additional Information:

After reading a few more posts, I thought that I would report that my friend also had pixalation problems which also cleared upon once Comcast got the CableCards programmed and installed correctly. It appears that bad CableCards can cause pixalation problems on the TiVo HD, and a good install of CableCards took care of that problem.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

My cable card install and pairing went very smoothly and I still get pixelation problems on both tuners.

sorta doubt "bad cards" are causing all these reported problems.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> As a mature individual - American or otherwise, you should realize that most desirable things will require some effort on your part to work in the fashion which best suits you........


Ah yes, another long winded post filled with opinions but very few, if any facts.

This "opinion" is ridiculous. There is nothing immature about complaining about a product that does not perform as it should. Not everything in life is an engineering exercise. As I have said many times in other posts I do "hack" other pieces of equipment to perform functions it was not originally intended for such as my original XBox on which I installed XBMC. When I did this, I did spend a lot of time getting it working and it was satisfying to me. Other people do not want, or enjoy this type of experience and expect when they pay for something that it works as it is supposed to.

You must not buy many new things, if your expectation is you will spend many satisfying hours getting it to work properly huh?


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

tbeckner said:


> I guess the OP was not knowledgeable enough to understand that the problem is not with the TiVo HD, but the CableCards.
> 
> A good friend of mine just installed a TiVo HD this week and went through the same problems that the OP described, and finally on the THIRD try Comcast got it right and corrected all of the problems with the third set of CableCards.
> 
> ...


Guess you need to read more...

My original post stated I felt there was a problem with the Tivo, and I was correct, they pushed a fix to remedy the problem with Slot 2. I still contend there is a problem with the Tivo which causes random pixelation at 1 minute or less intervals, on every channel I have, live or recorded and now also includes some of the downloaded videos from Tivo (in my case the Video on Swivel Search).

I stand by my original opinion, if Tivo does not fix the pixelation issue many people, although not all, are experiencing I would recommend you wait to purchase a Tivo, unless you feel you might get lucky and not have this issue.


----------



## robtech (Sep 13, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> So if there is a problem with slot 2 it sounds like a mutistream card in slot one would be a workaround since you only need one mutistream card for both tuners.


That would work if the cable company had the multi cards


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

> Well, maybe because it would be unethical? Maybe because it would really damage their reputation, not to mention any chance of a future partnership agreement with one of the largest providers of DVRs to consumers in the world? Maybe because they don't want to get their asses sued off?


 Unethical? How so? You can't deny there is a problem with getting cable cards installed correctly. What would be unethical about TiVo acknowledging this? If anything, it's unethical for them not to. They're doing a serious disservice to their customers.

As for your suggestions that any action on TiVo's part to comment on the cable card problems might have an adverse effect on a future partnership agreement, then you are agreeing with this statement I made in my original post:

_"I do sympathize with TiVo and their customers who want to upgrade to a TiVo HD DVR. Currently, they're at the mercy of the cable companies and this whole cable card fiasco."_



> No offense, but you really need to do a reality check.


 No offense taken. If anyone needs to do a reality check, it's TiVo. There is a very real problem with the installation of cable cards in the S3. As a customer, I chose to go with a competitor of TiVo's when it came time to purchase an HD DVR. That's a very real problem for TiVo. Of the 3 factors involved in my decision to go with TWC (TiVo, TWC, and me), who lost out? The obvious answer is TiVo. Not only did they lose my business, but they lost my business to a competitor.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> As for your suggestions that any action on TiVo's part to comment on the cable card problems might have an adverse effect on a future partnership agreement, then you are agreeing with this statement I made in my original post:
> 
> _"I do sympathize with TiVo and their customers who want to upgrade to a TiVo HD DVR. Currently, they're at the mercy of the cable companies and this whole cable card fiasco."_
> 
> No offense taken. If anyone needs to do a reality check, it's TiVo. There is a very real problem with the installation of cable cards in the S3. .


So how would you suggest TiVo get cable companies to do better cable card installs? By bashing the cable company and insuring all real communication is cut off or by working with the cable company directly where they can and otherwise not commenting publicly on the problems of another company. It would do TiVo no good and just garner them a lot of negative publicity.

TiVo is setting up a group within TiVo to help customers with cable card installs and TiVo is willing to have cable card installers talk directly with this group to resolve problems, even if they are on the cable company's end. This kind of quiet but useful help is the smart way to go and is there for all Tivo customers.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I think they need to go further. With a big "Do not return this product to the store. If your cable company installer is having trouble installing this unit please call 1800-TIVOLUVU"

You get the idea.


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> So how would you suggest TiVo get cable companies to do better cable card installs? By bashing the cable company and insuring all real communication is cut off or by working with the cable company directly where they can and otherwise not commenting publicly on the problems of another company. It would do TiVo no good and just garner them a lot of negative publicity.
> 
> TiVo is setting up a group within TiVo to help customers with cable card installs and TiVo is willing to have cable card installers talk directly with this group to resolve problems, even if they are on the cable company's end. This kind of quiet but useful help is the smart way to go and is there for all Tivo customers.


Getting cable companies to do better cable card installs isn't my problem, it's TiVo's. As a customer in the market for an HD DVR, I have the luxury of shopping around and going with the product of my choice. It's up to TiVo to convince me their product is better than their competitors. Thus far, TiVo has failed miserably at doing so.

You say TiVo is setting up a group within TiVo to help customers with cable card installs. Why are they keeping this a secret? As noted before, TiVo has the ability to communicate with us, their customers via the internet and through the TiVo software ("Messages" on "Now Playing" menu) yet they've been mute.

As for garnering TiVo poor publicity should they comment on the problems of another company; when those problems are having a direct effect on TiVo's success or failure in the HD DVR market, I'd say TiVo has bigger problems than just some bad press.

Here is a quote from a rather disgruntled TiVo customer from the TW thread. You tell me if TiVo isn't dropping the ball when it comes to servicing their S3 customers.



> How can we get REAL technical support? Calling the reps is not good enough to resolve "tough" issues like 0x02. Calling the "Tivo Cablecard Support" line is just regular Tivo support, and is also worthless. I need to get through to a real, honest to God technical person at Time-Warner to fix this card. I am so pissed off at this whole experience.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Getting cable companies to do better cable card installs isn't my problem, it's TiVo's. As a customer in the market for an HD DVR, I have the luxury of shopping around and going with the product of my choice. It's up to TiVo to convince me their product is better than their competitors. Thus far, TiVo has failed miserably at doing so.


?!

Not Tivo's problem, because TiVo can't fix it.
If my card needs to be hit, TiVo can't do that, I hafta call my cable provider.
TiVo can't control how well the Adelphia/TW/Comcast installers and phone techs are trained.
Cablecards aren't just for TiVos, heck, my TV has a CC slot on it.

I had a Comcast tech tell me today that Comcast would rather not deal with cable cards and tried to tell me the in house DVR was better than my TiVoHD.

So it is on the cable providers to provide proper training for their people, then many of these issues would go away.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Getting cable companies to do better cable card installs isn't my problem, it's TiVo's. As a customer in the market for an HD DVR, I have the luxury of shopping around and going with the product of my choice. It's up to TiVo to convince me their product is better than their competitors. Thus far, TiVo has failed miserably at doing so.
> 
> You say TiVo is setting up a group within TiVo to help customers with cable card installs. Why are they keeping this a secret? As noted before, TiVo has the ability to communicate with us, their customers via the internet and through the TiVo software ("Messages" on "Now Playing" menu) yet they've been mute. .


so can you explain how a press release from TiVo is going to help things?
The cable card group at TiVo is no secret and CSRs are telling people about it. Anyone with the idea of searching for help on the ineternet would hopefully find this site and come across the info on the cable card group. This group will do a 3 ay call with the cable company and help them resolve issues for the Tivo customer.

so again I ask "What should Tivo be doing that will help the customer?"


----------



## lament (Jul 6, 2005)

jmatero said:


> This whole thread is really unusual.
> 
> I live in White Plains, NY and purchased the S3 the morning it was released last Fall. I had Cablevision at the time and the installation was quick and easy:
> 
> They got to the house... I was the first he had seen with the S3. He followed the instructions from Tivo and in about 10-15 minutes, everything was up and running perfectly. Last month I switched to Verizon Fios and, again, the installation was 10 minutes tops and both cable cards worked perfectly and everything works fine. No issues here. I feel bad for those who have had and are having issues. BUT to suggest people don't buy this product is really wrong. Tivo would not exist if EVERYONE with S3's had these issues or even a quarter. I suspect those with severe issues are in the minority. Again, I feel bad for you but most of us out there are happy and things are working fine.


everyone is talking about the TiVo HD, not the original S3.


----------



## JimboDunky (Mar 7, 2002)

In the time after I posted my rant about my TiVo HD on another thread, Ive read quite a few posts about owners of the S3, that have all been putting up with this macroblocking issue for almost a year. Im astounded that people would just clam up and put up with it, and just keep hoping that one day, it will just disappear.

I hooked up my TiVo HD the day before the installer came, and restarted the unit once I saw that an update was pending. So I had the b1 by the time he came. So were all running a beta version of the TiVo Linux OS on TiVo HD, so were all beta testers now? Last I checked, being a beta tester was a free deal.

My installer brought 22 CCs because hed heard about all of the other issues customers were having with their TiVos and CCs. He started off by telling me wed be lucky if we found 2 CCs that worked with the unit before he even started playing cards with it. I ended up with 1.

Regardless of the fact of whether its a CC issue or not, you dont go and release a consumer product based on the fact that it passed Cable Labs testing, FCC testing, etc. You test it in real world situations. This issue is so blatantly obvious, that there is no possible way it was missed. With so many posts and so many complaints that Ive read today, its obvious to me that there is no possible way that TiVo could have NOT known about this issue before releasing this product to the masses, especially in light of the fact that the pricier S3 units still have the same issue after almost a year. That being said, TiVo has left quite a bad taste in my mouth over all of this. Especially since I bought into the whole TiVo experience years ago. When I got my first TiVo unit in 2000, TiVo stock was selling at about $80 a share. Today, its languishing around 6 bucks. Wonder why.

Comcast inked a partnership deal with TiVo back in 2005 to exclusively use TiVo branded DVRs. So whatever happened to that? I think the ink has dried by now.

When you put a product out like TiVo has in this case, and expect the average consumer to just deal with it, you end up insulting your average consumer. Do that to a loyal customer like myself and you end up wanting to tell the world (and my northeast district manager golf buddy who is employed by a nationwide consumer electronics retailer) to avoid TiVo HD like the plague. It only takes 1 domino to bring down 10,000.

My 7 year honeymoon with TiVo is over; even with TiVo, who would have ever thought that all good things really do come to an end.


----------



## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

JimboDunky said:


> I hooked up my TiVo HD the day before the installer came, and restarted the unit once I saw that an update was pending. So I had the b1 by the time he came. So were all running a beta version of the TiVo Linux OS on TiVo HD, so were all beta testers now? Last I checked, being a beta tester was a free deal.


How is having the B version of software the same as beta testing?


----------



## bartendergreg (Aug 13, 2007)

I am a long experienced Tech for Cablevision. The Tivo Series 3 and the Lite HD Tivo are a hit and miss. Tivo announced to Cablevision all the issues their equiptment is having and said they will have it fixed immediately and to have the customer notify Tivo to get it fixed or swapped for a new box. Issues were the Slot 2 failure and/or pixilation and also the aggravating 30 cable cards later and not one working with the Tivo. Sometimes when the customer would call Tivo their techs would not allow them to swap the Tivo box insisting it is all the Cable company's fault. Others would swap it with no problem and the next visit we would be out of their from 20 minutes to an hour depending on firmware upgrade and guided setup. So far I have seen less the 50% of the Tivos work. I would spend a whole day at a persons house rewiring and trying up to 20 cable cards with a no go. Once the sub got a new Tivo the next visit was easy and short. Granted we also have many bad Cable cards in out inventory. I would say almost 1 out of 4 is bad but that is Scientific Atlantas fault. The refurbish their cards and never solve the issue. The pixilation issue with Tivo is ridiculous. When the first batch of Tivos came out we never had these issues. It was more a slow process on the cable companies fault to get their Techs familiar with the Tivo 3. Once we got the hang of it Tivo 3 series they were a bang out to install. 20 to 30 minutes easily no problems except the once in a while bad cable card. Now its flooded with hundreds of defective Tivos. Our whole day is shot because we have to knolly out all the possiblilties of it being our fault. I don't know why Tivo couldn't produce fully working boxes since they started with good working ones. Personally I love the way the Tivo is set up with its decorative menus and options and I think it produces a clean picture. But with all this aggravation and all the money spent I would just deal with the DVR from Cablevision. You spend up to $600 on the Tivo, $15 to $20 on the monthly (CONTRACT) service, $12 a month for both Cable Cards, and then a whopping $50 for an installation charge when we come out. Also if your Tivo is defective we will charge you for the truck roll on trouble calls and installation. The DVR is free with a $15 a month charge, no contract, free replacement, free trouble calls (as long as you didn't mess with the wires!  ) and you will probably get free installation or you can install it yourself easily. The Tivo also needs an internet or phone line connection to Download all the updates and get the TV guide info. The DVR needs only the cable line and seeing that Tivo download off a phone line is irritating. I think its to much aggravation to deal with Tivo customer service and Cablevison customer service and go through the finger pointing. You loose the nice fancy Tivo menus and its easy to use interface but the DVR is not that bad. You can even hook up an external HD to the DVR. They said they are working on a new interface for the DVR so soon it will be exactly similar to Tivos and they will also work those annoying bugs out too. Everyones house that i went to with the Tivo problem are pissed they dealt with the all the crap and wished they got a DVR. They would of if Tivo didn't lock them in a contract. *If you want one wait till Tivo gets all their problems strait.* The cable companys will always have issues with Cable Cards but they will get it to work for you and they won't charge you for their mistake. If you get one and you see any of those problems with a good installer at your house get ready to swap that Tivo. Try the DVR first and see if you like it. You can always get rid of it and they have promotions for one to three months of free trial use.


----------



## JimboDunky (Mar 7, 2002)

Toeside said:


> How is having the B version of software the same as beta testing?


Look at the current software version, 'b1' denotes a beta product. Those who use beta products are...beta testers.

Yes, it's true, you are dropping $'s to be one of TiVo's beta boys.

The fact that an alpha version of the software was even out there in the consumer realm previous to this beta version in the first place is ridiculous.

I don't have the kind of time to be somebody's guinea pig, and pay to be one to boot.


----------



## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

bartendergreg,

I'm guessing you don't deal with billing because your prices for cablecards and installation are way off base. I also spoke to a couple of Cablevision installers I know and they were completely unaware of the hundreds of defective Tivo's you mention. They both have installed a couple s3's. Neither had seen a TivoHD yet. 

For the record-

[email protected] $300 (full retail) + 36 mo service @ $300 = $600 or $16.66/mo + $2.50/mo cable card rental(2) = $19.16/mo equipment cost VS SA8300hd @ $15/mo

The difference between Tivo's interface and the 8300's interface is HUGE, worth much more than $4.15/mo IMO. I have a 8300 and I would say that if you never used a Tivo (and it is obvious that the designer of the SA's interface never did) you might be happy with it. Once you've used a Tivo, the SA's interface is PAINFUL!

I also curious about your ability to use bold tags and the like while not using spell check. It almost feels like you're not using your natural writing style.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bartendergreg said:


>


hey AFP1, hows it hanging - still cut and pasting posts into multiple threads I see


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

JimboDunky said:


> The fact that an alpha version of the software was even out there in the consumer realm previous to this beta version in the first place is ridiculous.


what are you hanging even the beta version hat on, let alone the alpha? 
The b1 really just denotes a patch that Tivo put out to upgrade folks with a fix that was deveolped after the software went to production. It denotes that this is not the final release version of software which TiVo has acknowledged as well right here in these forums as other issues have been brought to their attention and they are working on fixes for. Actually I would feel better knowing the patch is readily acknowledged with the b1 designation so that the other issues are acknowledged and more releases are anticipated before a more finalized release number comes along


----------



## lament (Jul 6, 2005)

JimboDunky said:


> My 7 year honeymoon with TiVo is over; even with TiVo, who would have ever thought that all good things really do come to an end.


cool how much do you want for it?


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> Unethical? How so?


It is unethical for a company or its representatives to comment upon the business practices of another company. It is also actionable. It is called "libel", and one can be sued for it.



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> You can't deny there is a problem with getting cable cards installed correctly.


Certainly not. Neither I nor TiVo, Inc. have never made any statement denying this, however.



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> What would be unethical about TiVo acknowledging this?


It is unethical to criticize the internal workings of another entity. That you do not see this in no way changes the fact.

I'll give you an analogy. Let's say you were having severe and complex internal family problems. Furthermore, you and other members of your family were working diligently but privately to alleviate the issues. Would you appreciate a nosy neighbor standing in public and announcing to everyone the measures they oh-so-self-righteously believe your family should employ to fix the problem? You would not. You would very likely tell them to mind their own business, which is in fact what they shoud have done in the first place. Offering help privately is one thing. Announcing it to the world is another.

It's the same with TiVo. They have no right to publicly criticize other companies' internal procedures nor to publicly air the other's dirty laundry.



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> If anything, it's unethical for them not to. They're doing a serious disservice to their customers.


They provide a detailed script for activating CableCards in Series III TiVos. Now that is about as much as they can do, and in fact it is going just a bit above the strict call of their duty, but without infringing on the prerogatives of the CATV company. To do more would overstep their rights. They are simply not publicly responsible for other companies' problems with implementation of their box or anyone else's. They just are not. And as I pointed out (but you conveniently ignored), the problem is seen far more often with CableCard televisions. Why are you not calling for them to do the same thing? Now if the CATV company wants to enlist TiVo's help in resolving some issue, they can and TiVo might be well served to answer such a plea, but I can just about bet the call will be private, not public. Either way, it is the CATV company's call, not TiVo's.



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> As for your suggestions that any action on TiVo's part to comment on the cable card problems might have an adverse effect on a future partnership agreement, then you are agreeing with this statement I made in my original post:
> 
> _"I do sympathize with TiVo and their customers who want to upgrade to a TiVo HD DVR. Currently, they're at the mercy of the cable companies and this whole cable card fiasco."_


I don't see the relevance. If TiVo acts like a spoiled child and runs around officially cranking on the CATV company, then the CATV company has very solid reaqsons not to cooperate with TiVo at all in any venue.



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> No offense taken. If anyone needs to do a reality check, it's TiVo. There is a very real problem with the installation of cable cards in the S3.


There are very real problems with deploying CableCards, period. TiVo is not responsible for those issues - whether in the TiVo or not.



Joey Bagadonuts said:


> As a customer, I chose to go with a competitor of TiVo's when it came time to purchase an HD DVR. That's a very real problem for TiVo. Of the 3 factors involved in my decision to go with TWC (TiVo, TWC, and me), who lost out? The obvious answer is TiVo. Not only did they lose my business, but they lost my business to a competitor.


And so? No one can win every time. Getting themselves sued for libel isn't going to help prevent occasional losses to the competition. We frequently lose business to one of our competitors. It happens, even though in many cases our competitor will deliver inferior service - perhaps at an inferior price, which may be why we lost the bid. I can call my competitor any sorts of names I want privately, but if I were to publicly denigrate them in the media, I would be fired in a big hurry. And that's the competition, not an obligate ally.


----------



## JimboDunky (Mar 7, 2002)

lament said:


> cool how much do you want for it?


A TiVo HD that actually works as advertised would be good. Anyone have one?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I do(except for the audio from analog channels being sent as mono to FL and FR). But I'm not using cable cards with it.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

jmpage2 said:


> My cable card install and pairing went very smoothly and I still get pixelation problems on both tuners.
> 
> sorta doubt "bad cards" are causing all these reported problems.


It's hard to say. Actually, I suspect a big part of it may be incorrect software versions. I say this because the problems in my installs all seemed to revolve around newer CableCards. When older versions of the cards were found, they worked. This not once, but several times. The first set of cards failed in my Mitsubishi TV over a year and a half ago. They went through numerous cards before finding one which worked - an older one. There were still problems, but no one I was able to reach at the time had any inkling of the nature of the problem. The one engineer who I happened to know from my days in the industry and who had the necessary understanding was out of town, but the main card functionality was there. The same thing happened in the first S3 install, but every card which failed in the S3 also would not work in the Mitsubishi (one was moved over from the Mitsubishi and worked fine). I believe the card they finally found to work was an older revision, but I could be mistaken. When I got the second S3, it was definitely the story. Neither it, the older S3, or the Mitsubishi would work with the newer versions of cards. I suspect TWC bought a bunch of CableCards without bothering to upgrade the software in their video servers. 'Download the wrong version of software into the cards, and ker-plooey. No encrypted channels.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

bartendergreg said:


> I am a long experienced Tech for Cablevision. The Tivo Series 3 and the Lite HD Tivo are a hit and miss. Tivo announced to Cablevision all the issues their equiptment is having and said they will have it fixed immediately and to have the customer notify Tivo to get it fixed or swapped for a new box. Issues were the Slot 2 failure and/or pixilation and also the aggravating 30 cable cards later and not one working with the Tivo. Sometimes when the customer would call Tivo their techs would not allow them to swap the Tivo box insisting it is all the Cable company's fault. Others would swap it with no problem and the next visit we would be out of their from 20 minutes to an hour depending on firmware upgrade and guided setup. So far I have seen less the 50% of the Tivos work. I would spend a whole day at a persons house rewiring and trying up to 20 cable cards with a no go. Once the sub got a new Tivo the next visit was easy and short. Granted we also have many bad Cable cards in out inventory. I would say almost 1 out of 4 is bad but that is Scientific Atlantas fault. The refurbish their cards and never solve the issue. The pixilation issue with Tivo is ridiculous. When the first batch of Tivos came out we never had these issues. It was more a slow process on the cable companies fault to get their Techs familiar with the Tivo 3. Once we got the hang of it Tivo 3 series they were a bang out to install. 20 to 30 minutes easily no problems except the once in a while bad cable card. Now its flooded with hundreds of defective Tivos. Our whole day is shot because we have to knolly out all the possiblilties of it being our fault. I don't know why Tivo couldn't produce fully working boxes since they started with good working ones. Personally I love the way the Tivo is set up with its decorative menus and options and I think it produces a clean picture. But with all this aggravation and all the money spent I would just deal with the DVR from Cablevision. You spend up to $600 on the Tivo, $15 to $20 on the monthly (CONTRACT) service, $12 a month for both Cable Cards, and then a whopping $50 for an installation charge when we come out. Also if your Tivo is defective we will charge you for the truck roll on trouble calls and installation. The DVR is free with a $15 a month charge, no contract, free replacement, free trouble calls (as long as you didn't mess with the wires!  ) and you will probably get free installation or you can install it yourself easily. The Tivo also needs an internet or phone line connection to Download all the updates and get the TV guide info. The DVR needs only the cable line and seeing that Tivo download off a phone line is irritating. I think its to much aggravation to deal with Tivo customer service and Cablevison customer service and go through the finger pointing. You loose the nice fancy Tivo menus and its easy to use interface but the DVR is not that bad. You can even hook up an external HD to the DVR. They said they are working on a new interface for the DVR so soon it will be exactly similar to Tivos and they will also work those annoying bugs out too. Everyones house that i went to with the Tivo problem are pissed they dealt with the all the crap and wished they got a DVR. They would of if Tivo didn't lock them in a contract. *If you want one wait till Tivo gets all their problems strait.* The cable companys will always have issues with Cable Cards but they will get it to work for you and they won't charge you for their mistake. If you get one and you see any of those problems with a good installer at your house get ready to swap that Tivo. Try the DVR first and see if you like it. You can always get rid of it and they have promotions for one to three months of free trial use.


Learn to use PARAGRAPHS.

Good God.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Big Deficit said:



> I'm guessing you don't deal with billing because your prices for cablecards and installation are way off base. I also spoke to a couple of Cablevision installers I know and they were completely unaware of the hundreds of defective Tivo's you mention. They both have installed a couple s3's. Neither had seen a TivoHD yet.


No kidding. A typical installer may handle 4 - 5 installs a day, unless they are just very simple changes to an existing installation, turning back on a terminated customer, or disconnecting service. The installer may see 900 customers a year. I doubt if the average installer will see 10 Series III or HD TiVos a year. None of the installers who came out for my first S3 had even heard of it. Nine months later, none of the installers who came out had ever done a Series III install, although they had heard of them. This, in a city with over 300,000 subscribers. There are only a very small handful of cities in the U.S. with more subscribers.



Big Deficit said:


> The difference between Tivo's interface and the 8300's interface is HUGE, worth much more than $4.15/mo IMO. I have a 8300 and I would say that if you never used a Tivo (and it is obvious that the designer of the SA's interface never did) you might be happy with it. Once you've used a Tivo, the SA's interface is PAINFUL!


That's the word, alright. "Using" the 8300-HD is an exercise in continual aggravation, and it is so pathetically feature poor it's like comparing an apple and a seven course meal in a five star restaurant. The UI of the TiVo is vastly better than the 8300, and it is indeed a major consideration, but it's the features of the TiVo which are its heart, and the other DVRs just don't have them, period. I am all but apoplectic when people say they are going to go to a cable company DVR instead of a TiVo. It isn't possible. They are just getting rid of teh TiVo, not replacing it. More than 90% of the most important things a TiVo does can't be done by the competition, period. It's like saying one is going to replace a 75HP tractor, a 3 point hitch, and a full set of trailers with a potato fork. If CATV company DVRs had the following, I might consider it a reasonable downgrade:

Wishlist searches
Keyword searches
Director searches
Category, subcategory, and HD searches
Actor searches
2TB recording capacity (~296 hours HD, over 3000 hours SD)
Internet connectivity and content
Home networking capabilities
The ability to be hacked
The same flexibility in handling their equivalent of Season Passes
The potential for MRV (fingers crossed on the S3)
30 second skip
Round robin FF and Rew functions
15 minute jump
Folders
Suggestions
3rd party applications (MFS Tools, TyTool, Galleon, etc.)
FTP, Telnet, SAMBA, etc.
Extended Information
2 week channel guide
Thumbs up / down


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

bartendergreg said:


> _<Cablevision Kool Aid induced rant by former English major removed>_


It's not nice to post the same text in multiple forums ... :down:


----------



## thepcdoc (Jul 31, 2007)

Will you guys stop drinking the Tivo Punch. Granted the Tivo has more options but who really cares if the image looks like #$^*. BTW my Tivo HD would not record shows as I intended for them it do. I only wanted first runs and this thing would record reruns left and right or record shows that were non existent. I returned my piece of %&^ Tivo HD and went back to my 8300HD. Not for nothing but my SA 8300HD did everything I wanted and gave me a great picture. 

BTW I had to blow around $90 for Cablevision to come out twice becasue Tivo kept saying it was the cablecards when it was their %&*y box. Way to go screw over the consumer while putting out a box that should never have been released with these HUGE issues.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

(And people say I ramble!)



bartendergreg said:


> I am a long experienced Tech for Cablevision.


Hmm. So why is your username bartendergreg?



bartendergreg said:


> Tivo announced to Cablevision all the issues their equiptment is having and said they will have it fixed immediately and to have the customer notify Tivo to get it fixed or swapped for a new box.


They did? Please provide this announcement.



bartendergreg said:


> Issues were the Slot 2 failure and/or pixilation and also the aggravating 30 cable cards later and not one working with the Tivo.


The slot 2 issue is one thing, but did you or any of your colleagues ever provide a CableCard device on site which did work with the CableCards? It didn't take 30 cards, but it took several to find one which worked when they installed my Mitsubishi TV. Then later when more cards did not work in my Series III, they also did not work in my Mitsubishi. Then yet again later, when cards would not work in 
my second S3, they also would not work when placed in my 1st S3 or the Mitsubishi. All the cards which worked in my first S3 also worked in the second S3 and the Mitsubishi.

<lots of unconnected, almost indecipherable rambling deleted>



bartendergreg said:


> The Tivo also needs an internet or phone line connection to Download all the updates and get the TV guide info.


The TiVo needs an internet connection so it can do about 40% of things it can that the CATV DVR can't. Swivel Search, Internet Content, Web based control, MRV, Home Network applications, the 2 week TV guide, etc. all require the Internet connection. Try playing music from your music collection or showing photos from your photo collection on the 8300. Oh, and how many people who can afford a TiVo don't have internet connections?



bartendergreg said:


> The DVR needs only the cable line


Because it can't do a fraction of the things the TiVo can! A bicycle doesn't require gasoline. Does that mean you prefer to ride a bicycle rather than drive your company vehicle?



bartendergreg said:


> You loose the nice fancy Tivo menus and its easy to use interface


Which while significant are not the most important aspects of the TiVo's capabilities.



bartendergreg said:


> but the DVR is not that bad.


Oh, yes, it is. It's interface is vomitous and its capabilities pathetic.



bartendergreg said:


> You can even hook up an external HD to the DVR.


As with the TiVo, but with a Series III TiVo, I can (and do) have 2TB of recording space. With the 8300, I'm limited to 1.12 TB. I'm also given to understand some people have been having quite a few problems with an external HD on the 8300, but then I have no personal experience in the matter.


----------



## vacationjunkie (Jun 13, 2007)

i have a series 3 that i bought in may of this year to go with my new samsung HD LCD tv. the cable co. did have to replace the cable cards three times, and on the last visit, a tiVo rep. very patiently talked the guys thru the connections, but once we got a pair that worked (with 2 wks of the original appt.), it works like a dream! i LOVE my series 3! thetiVo pic is clear and there isn't ANY pixelation on either card. 

bottom line... don't give up; GO FOR IT! :up:


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> (Hmm. So why is your username bartendergreg?


he is no tech for cablevision I am fairly sure of that. I also doubt he is a bartender


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

thepcdoc said:


> Will you guys stop drinking the Tivo Punch. Granted the Tivo has more options but who really cares if the image looks like #$^*. BTW my Tivo HD would not record shows as I intended for them it do. I only wanted first runs and this thing would record reruns left and right or record shows that were non existent. I returned my piece of %&^ Tivo HD and went back to my 8300HD. Not for nothing but my SA 8300HD did everything I wanted and gave me a great picture.


If the 8300 does everything you want it to, you must have very low expectations of a DVR. 

As for your problems with Tivo HD recording what you wanted - I'm calling you on that. B.S.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

thepcdoc said:


> Granted the Tivo has more options but who really cares if the image looks like #$^*.


I rate the Series IIIs picture superior to the 8300. The 8300's output is not bad, but its digital conversion is not as accurate as the Series III. I cannot speak for the TiVo HD.



thepcdoc said:


> BTW my Tivo HD would not record shows as I intended for them it do. I only wanted first runs and this thing would record reruns left and right or record shows that were non existent.


RTFM. The TiVo's flexibility in this and other areas leaves the 8300 in the dust. If you had bothered to do 45 seconds worth of reading, you would have seen the settings for any Season Pass can be changed to record first run only, first run and repeats excluding duplicates, and all episodes including duplicates. Changing this setting is extremely easy either before or after a Season Pass is created.



thepcdoc said:


> I returned my piece of %&^ Tivo HD and went back to my 8300HD. Not for nothing but my SA 8300HD did everything I wanted and gave me a great picture.


Uh, huh. Are you a Clint Eastwood fan? Or perhaps Robert DeNiro? Tim Burton, or Alred Hitchcock, perhaps? Are you fascinated by volcanoes, or maybe space exploration? Come back and talk to me when the 8300 automatically records all the programs featuring a favorite actor, director, or topic without your having to (rather painfully) search through every single upcoming show. The TiVo wishlist handles it in a breeze, no interaction required unless you want. Wait, you know what, don't come back until the 8300 can figure out what you might like and record it without your even having to tell it to record it via wishlist. My TiVos already know what I like, and record hundreds of shows every month they think I would like. When I sit down, there are usually anything from 150 to 300 shows I would like to watch (depending on my mood) that I had no idea were even coming on whenever they did.

At the very worst all involved parties will be able to resolve the issues with CableCards and Series III / HD TiVos inside the next few months, but you will still be waiting for years for the 8300 to do any of this, unless TiVo releases their code for installation to the 8300. I guess you just don't mind spending hours browsing through the painfully slow and tedious TV Guide provided by the 8300. Me? I never browse the TV Guide at all. (Oh, and try waiting 20 minutes into an hour long or longer show to start watching it on the 8300. Watch what happens when the live program ends. Talk about a piece of junk!)


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> he is no tech for cablevision I am fairly sure of that. I also doubt he is a bartender


Good Point. Hey bartendergreg, what is Intermodulation Distortion and what affects does it have on a CATV signal? How is it avoided?

OK, if that one's by you, what is the correct modulation depth for an AM Video carrier?

If he can't answer those, then he's not a CATV technician.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> If the 8300 does everything you want it to, you must have very low expectations of a DVR.


I would say it's a little better than a VCR, but not terribly much.


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

lrhorer said:


> It is unethical for a company or its representatives to comment upon the business practices of another company. It is also actionable. It is called "libel", and one can be sued for it.


 If you're going to toss around legal terms, it'd be a good idea to know what you're talking about. It's only libel if what you say or publish is proven untrue. Check out the Time Warner thread. It's now up to 66 pages and close to 2000 posts, the majority of which are by unhappy S3 owners and the problems they've had with TWC and the installation of cable cards. And that's just via this forum. The total number of unhappy S3 owners could be in the thousands.



> It is unethical to criticize the internal workings of another entity. That you do not see this in no way changes the fact.


 Unethical? Companies are always telling us why they're better than their competition. Ever seen or heard any Satellite TV commercials? All you hear is how much more affordable they are than cable television. Same with cable internet companies. They don't pull any punches when telling us their speeds are 5 to 10 times faster than DSL. Or how about those Hertz commercials where they constantly remind us they're #1 and Avis is #2 in the car rental industry? The list of companies who belittle their competition is endless.[/quote]



> I'll give you an analogy. Let's say you were having severe and complex internal family problems. Furthermore, you and other members of your family were working diligently but privately to alleviate the issues. Would you appreciate a nosy neighbor standing in public and announcing to everyone the measures they oh-so-self-righteously believe your family should employ to fix the problem? You would not. You would very likely tell them to mind their own business, which is in fact what they shoud have done in the first place. Offering help privately is one thing. Announcing it to the world is another. It's the same with TiVo. They have no right to publicly criticize other companies' internal procedures nor to publicly air the other's dirty laundry.


 Using your analogy, what if my internal family problems were directly effecting my neighbors? Let's say my wife and I are having a rather loud argument and our next door neighbors are trying to have an outdoor bbq and my _internal family problems_ are disrupting their bbq. You don't think they have the right to say something? That's the relationship CATV companies and TiVo now have. TWC's lack of know-how when it comes to cable card installs and activations is having a direct effect on TiVo's ability to operate their HD business and it's costing them memberships. You don't think TiVo has not only a right but an obligation to their customers to not only identify the problem but to try and rectify it with TWC? As I said before; TiVo's failure to go to bat for their customers is doing them a serious disservice. Instead, you want TiVo to wait for Time Warner to _come to them_ and ask for help with the CableCard problem? That's nuts. Why in the heck would TWC do that? The longer they draw out this CableCard problem with the S3, the more apt they are to steal HD DVR business from TiVo.



> And as I pointed out (but you conveniently ignored), the problem is seen far more often with CableCard televisions. Why are you not calling for them to do the same thing?


 I didn't conveniently ignore anything. We're discussing the S3 problems, not CableCard televisions. If you want to discuss CableCard TV's maybe you should start a new thread.



> Now if the CATV company wants to enlist TiVo's help in resolving some issue, they can and TiVo might be well served to answer such a plea, but I can just about bet the call will be private, not public. Either way, it is the CATV company's call, not TiVo's.


 So basically what you're saying is, until CATV _asks_ TiVo for assistance with the CableCard installs, the TiVo S3 customer is pretty much SOL...as far as TiVo's concerned. That's a great business practice on the part of TiVo. They come out with this fancy product and once they make the sale, the customer's satisfaction is no longer a concern. Yeah, I want to patronize a company like that.



> I don't see the relevance. If TiVo acts like a spoiled child and runs around officially cranking on the CATV company, then the CATV company has very solid reaqsons not to cooperate with TiVo at all in any venue.


 From what I've read from all the disgruntled S3 owners, it doesn't sound like the CATV company is doing a whole lot of cooperating with TiVo anyway. So TiVo's strategy of sticking their head in the sand and leaving their S3 customers hanging out to dry isn't working.



> There are very real problems with deploying CableCards, period. TiVo is not responsible for those issues - whether in the TiVo or not.


 _Responsible_ by definition, perhaps not. But when it's their product that isn't working correctly, I think they owe it to their customers to get involved, aggressively, and find a solution to the problem.



> No one can win every time. Getting themselves sued for libel isn't going to help prevent occasional losses to the competition.


 Again; it's only libel if what is said or published is a mistruth. In the Time Warner Cable thread alone, a significant majority of the close to 2000 posts are from S3 owners who have had problems with TWC techs not knowing how to install CableCards in their TiVo DVR.



> We frequently lose business to one of our competitors. It happens, even though in many cases our competitor will deliver inferior service - perhaps at an inferior price, which may be why we lost the bid. I can call my competitor any sorts of names I want privately, but if I were to publicly denigrate them in the media, I would be fired in a big hurry. And that's the competition, not an obligate ally.


 I haven't said anything about TiVo calling TWC names. All I've suggested is they should acknowledge there is a problem with the CableCard installs on the part of TWC and they should get aggressive about rectifying the problem. Not doing so, makes them guilty of knowingly selling faulty DVR's to their customers.

Here's an analogy for you: Let's say I buy a car from GM but I have to buy the engine from a different company. I try and do that but I find out that company doesn't know how to install engines in GM products. When I call GM they tell me it's not their problem. That's exactly what is happening with the S3's and the CATV companies not knowing how to install/activate the corresponding CableCards and TiVo turning a deaf ear to their customers.

I suggested in an earlier post that TiVo and the success of their S3 is at the mercy of the cable companies and from what you've said, it appears as though my suspicion was correct. So why would I want to gamble with an S3 being set up correctly by TWC when I can just buy a DVR from TWC and not worry about any hassles?


----------



## thepcdoc (Jul 31, 2007)

lrhorer said:


> RTFM. The TiVo's flexibility in this and other areas leaves the 8300 in the dust. If you had bothered to do 45 seconds worth of reading, you would have seen the settings for any Season Pass can be changed to record first run only, first run and repeats excluding duplicates, and all episodes including duplicates. Changing this setting is extremely easy either before or after a Season Pass is created.


Duh, really wise #$^. I am not new to Tivo I had 3 DirecTivos that I had modified when I was using DirecTV. The Season Passes were setup properly for first runs only and it would still record the show whenever it felt like it or not at all.

With the way some of you guys talk here, Tivo could sell you guys a box that inverted the image and you guys would still be defending them. That is just pathetic in my book.

BTW if you require 300 shows to watch, that must be one lonely life you're leading.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I was at my brothers yesterday. He was looking at the list of programs his 8300 recorded. He had recorded Startrek on the analog channel and from the digital channel. The 8300 didn't even show him what channel each recording was on. The only way for him to find out which recording was from the digital channel was to play it and see which one had the clearest picture. I thought that was crazy. How can you have a recroding and the info doesn't tell you what channel it was recorded from.? You couldn't pay me to use that Comcast DVR.


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

JimboDunky said:


> A TiVo HD that actually works as advertised would be good. Anyone have one?


/raise


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

thepcdoc said:


> Duh, really wise #$^. I am not new to Tivo I had 3 DirecTivos that I had modified when I was using DirecTV. The Season Passes were setup properly for first runs only and it would still record the show whenever it felt like it or not at all.


With all those years experience, you know that incomplete or faulty guide data will cause FRO SP'a to grab multiple episodes and even repeats on the same day.

The Daily Show and Corbet Report both constantly have this issue.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

thepcdoc said:


> Duh, really wise #$^. I am not new to Tivo I had 3 DirecTivos that I had modified when I was using DirecTV. The Season Passes were setup properly for first runs only and it would still record the show whenever it felt like it or not at all.
> 
> With the way some of you guys talk here, Tivo could sell you guys a box that inverted the image and you guys would still be defending them. That is just pathetic in my book.
> 
> BTW if you require 300 shows to watch, that must be one lonely life you're leading.


and you must realize that there is no widespread issue of this happening on the TiVo HD and as others point out this is a long known occurrence with bad guide data. 
Also, why can't the people who have had a good experience with the Tivo HD, or a bad experience with the 8300 post here and give their perspective? Why is being happy about the Tivo DVR bad and being upset the only reasonable perspective to have?


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Also, why can't the people who have had a good experience with the Tivo HD, or a bad experience with the 8300 post here and give their perspective? Why is being happy about the Tivo DVR bad and being upset the only reasonable perspective to have?


Mainly because that is what this thread is about. Others have started threads on good experiences, just not as many people having good experiences to post about. Also people are less passionate when something works for them, then when it doesn't.

Regarding experience with 8300HD, mine was not great either. I have replaced one of my two 8300HDs about once every 6 months or so. Most recently on of them would not output HD through HDMI and would need to be reset everytime to work properly. Up side is that it only requires me to take a 10 minute drive, drop off the box and get a new one and it works again. Ideal? Not really, but in between failures they record and play television non-pixelated which is the starting point for a good DVR. After that Tivo features and benefits far exceed 8300HD capabilities no question. In my mind though it is akin to buying a car that won't run reliably, and then discussing how the Nav system, audio system and bluetooth phone integration are awesome compared to another model that runs more reliably.

That is why I still stand by my recommendation to wait to purchase the Tivo HD until the pixelation issue is remedied.


----------



## TexasAg (Apr 2, 2006)

Chimpware said:


> just not as many people having good experiences to post about.


And your proof that "not as many people" are having good experiences to post about would be...what exactly?


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

TexasAg said:


> And your proof that "not as many people" are having good experiences to post about would be...what exactly?


The number of posts in the threads started to cover this including;

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=362324


----------



## flc (Jul 27, 2007)

TexasAg said:


> And your proof that "not as many people" are having good experiences to post about would be...what exactly?


Pretty much, Not many people come on here to promote good TiVO experiences, 99% come here to ask questions about TiVo issues

For what it's worth, my 1st TiVoHD had niggling issues (one tivo error, one user error), we got it replaced, got 2 cablecards from Time Warner and it's working like a dream now (TWC Mooresville, NC with 2 SA cards btw)


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> The number of posts in the threads started to cover this including;
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=362324


That's not proof, as you yourself point out, people with issues are more likely to be vocal and post then those not having issues related directly to TiVo.


----------



## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

Langree said:


> That's not proof, as you yourself point out, people with issues are more likely to be vocal and post then those not having issues related directly to TiVo.


Indeed. I've had two TiVos for over five years, but never felt the need to post here until I discovered my Toshiba TiVo couldn't do the 30-second skip. I haven't posted here about my TiVo HD units because I haven't gotten my cablecards, yet. Satisfied customers are much less likely to come and post positive experiences and the Internet Echo Chamber can often make a problem appear more widespread than it actually may be. Which is not to say that this is true or false of the TiVo HD or not...just pointing out that the general lack of positive posting does not prove anything other than happy customers are less likely to post than unhappy ones.

I will let you know how my TiVo HDs work when I get FIOS and cablecards on Wednesday.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Langree said:


> That's not proof, as you yourself point out, people with issues are more likely to be vocal and post then those not having issues related directly to TiVo.


Ok, let's say you are right, it is irrelevant. The fact is that many people are experienceing issues with the Tivo HD. Tivo has told me directly the macroblocking is a known issue and they are working on it, but could no give me an ETA, or a definitive answer as to whether it could be remedied, but did say they "beleive" it is software related. Given all of this I stand by my original statement, that people should hold off buying this unit until the problem is resolved unless you want to take a chance and be in the situation I, as well as many others are in with a pixelated picture every 10 to 20 seconds or so with audiop drop out.

Debating whether anyone is having a good experience, whether for some it is a "liveable" situation, etc. is useless. The fact is in many cases the macroblocking occurs to a level that makes the Tivo HD a poor DVR experience and people should know they are taking a risk before purchasing this unit.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

WizarDru said:


> Indeed. I've had two TiVos for over five years, but never felt the need to post here until I discovered my Toshiba TiVo couldn't do the 30-second skip. I haven't posted here about my TiVo HD units because I haven't gotten my cablecards, yet. Satisfied customers are much less likely to come and post positive experiences and the Internet Echo Chamber can often make a problem appear more widespread than it actually may be. Which is not to say that this is true or false of the TiVo HD or not...just pointing out that the general lack of positive posting does not prove anything other than happy customers are less likely to post than unhappy ones.
> 
> I will let you know how my TiVo HDs work when I get FIOS and cablecards on Wednesday.


Agreed, and I was also a very satisfied Tivo customer for many years since the first Series 1 (Sony unit) I owned, through multiple DirecTivos. Only my most recent experience has been bad.


----------



## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Langree said:


> That's not proof, as you yourself point out, people with issues are more likely to be vocal and post then those not having issues related directly to TiVo.


ALSO, new product releases bring out the trolls. The TivoHD threads are ripe with <10 post members. Never underestimate a "troll" type who feels scorned by a product/company to spread as much FUD as possible or the ability of true trolls who've never even used that product/company to jump on their bandwagon. Any old school USENET dweller will recognize the pattern


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> Mainly because that is what this thread is about. Others have started threads on good experiences, just not as many people having good experiences to post about. Also people are less passionate when something works for them, then when it doesn't..


well I was actually replying to thepcdoc who was using phrases such as tiVo Zombies for people who disagreed with his more vitrolic stance and were posting replies about their good experience with a Tivo. There is a difference between disparaging different opinions and your current approach of debating different opinions 

I might point out this polls results that shows a fairly high percentage of people using their Tivo HD vs the few who did not havea good experience.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361643


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Big Deficit said:


> ALSO, new product releases bring out the trolls. The TivoHD threads are ripe with <10 post members. Never underestimate a "troll" type who feels scorned by a product/company to spread as much FUD as possible or the ability of true trolls who've never even used that product/company to jump on their bandwagon. Any old school USENET dweller will recognize the pattern


Yes, let's discount the opinions of general consumers not happy with the performance of a product because they don't live on internet forums all the time.

Look at how many people have small numbers of posts in these threads yet had join dates of several years ago.

This would indicate they've wanted a Tivo for a long time, and still feel that the product is not living up to expectations, hence, the need for them to post about it.

Or you could just dis-regard all that and continue to believe that Tivo can do no wrong.


----------



## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> Look at how many people have small numbers of posts in these threads yet had join dates of several years ago.
> 
> This would indicate they've wanted a Tivo for a long time, and still feel that the product is not living up to expectations, hence, the need for them to post about it.


Actually, it would indicate that these people don't post often. You've created a reason as to why in order to back up your argument.


----------



## WizarDru (Jan 18, 2005)

Toeside said:


> Actually, it would indicate that these people don't post often.


[raises hand]

I didn't even register for almost two years (mostly coming here just to get some advice or the like). Until last week, my post count was 3.


----------



## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

While I can't say my TiVoHD experience has been great, it hasn't been bad either. Its does what I want it do, with occassional pixelation thats bearable. I am sure there are plenty of people like me who are having some issues with their unit, but will just wait for the update patiently (which I'm pretty used to doing, given past experience). 

There's always selection bias on forums like this towards the bad stories.


----------



## JimboDunky (Mar 7, 2002)

Toeside said:


> Actually, it would indicate that these people don't post often. You've created a reason as to why in order to back up your argument.


No, it indicates that people with old join dates had nothing to get mad about until they waste half of their weekend getting something to at least take 1 out of 22 CCs and then have their nice SXRD HDTV relegated into a LEGOTRON.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Well in my opinion it is now time to *buy* the Tivo HD. It has been an interesting journey, but after testing the most recent update over the weekend I am convinced that Tivo has remedied the macroblocking/pixelation issue for the bulk of the remaining users who were still experiencing this problem. I personally came very close to returing the systems, even to the point of have both back in their original cartons, but I kept them and am now happy I did.

As I mentioned earleir in this thread if you have an 8300 HD and want a better experience get a Tivo HD, now ready for primetime (and just in time for the new fall schedule).


----------



## alansplace (Apr 30, 2006)

i'd sure like to see you edit your first post and include this text right at the top of it.
--
Alan


----------



## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Glad to hear that everything worked out for you in the end. :up:

I second Alan's recommendation, along with considering asking the mods to de-sticky the Pixelation troubleshooting thread since it seems that this issue is past us.


----------



## lament (Jul 6, 2005)

alansplace said:


> i'd sure like to see you edit your first post and include this text right at the top of it.
> --
> Alan


Nah keep the original - just add an update to the end of the post.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

alansplace said:


> i'd sure like to see you edit your first post and include this text right at the top of it.
> --
> Alan


As requested by a few, updated original post to include new text.


----------



## fishboy (Aug 19, 2002)

GoHokies! said:


> Glad to hear that everything worked out for you in the end. :up:
> 
> I second Alan's recommendation, along with considering asking the mods to de-sticky the Pixelation troubleshooting thread since it seems that this issue is past us.


I'd also second (third?) that opinion. I was not really that close to returning it, but I had a knot in my stomach because of the initial disappointment in the quality. Right now, I am a *very* happy TivoHD user. Thanks for the quick response Tivo!


----------



## blhirsch (Mar 1, 2003)

Good to hear, because UPS just came with my new TivoHD.


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Bah. I told you people weeks ago to have faith.


----------



## dubluv (Mar 3, 2006)

profet said:


> man am I getting nervous... cablevision comes saturday with my cablecards...
> 
> Oh boy...
> 
> Does anyone have a TivoHD with a non pixelated picture from card #2?


yes, and my son's S3 works fine also. my TiVoHD uses the nds cards.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> Well in my opinion it is now time to *buy* the Tivo HD. It has been an interesting journey, but after testing the most recent update over the weekend I am convinced that Tivo has remedied the macroblocking/pixelation issue for the bulk of the remaining users who were still experiencing this problem. I personally came very close to returing the systems, even to the point of have both back in their original cartons, but I kept them and am now happy I did.
> 
> As I mentioned earleir in this thread if you have an 8300 HD and want a better experience get a Tivo HD, now ready for primetime (and just in time for the new fall schedule).


Glad to hear it worked out for you, but you can't unring the bell.


----------



## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> Glad to hear it worked out for you, but you can't unring the bell.


I was wonderin why my ears have been ringing...


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> Glad to hear it worked out for you, but you can't unring the bell.


Not trying to unring any bell. I stand by my original post as much as I stnad by my new one. A month ago this product was not ready for sale, now it is.

No amount of posting about fictitious signal issues from anyone will change that. Fact is I was one of the few that stuck to my guns that this was clearly a Tivo issue that needed resolution, not a fictitious signal issue as many (and I do mean you as well as others) would have people believe. I didn't notice any of the fanboys going back and posting in any of the other threads that they were wrong and this was a Tivo issue, huh interesting. As always I am honest in my opinion and post accurately relating my experiences.

Having said that I now believe this product is ready for sale and I am ready to recommend it (which I imagine has more credibility than posting "just believe", or "no matter the issue it is likely not related to anything Tivo just buy one").


----------



## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> Having said that I now believe this product is ready for sale and I am ready to recommend it (which I imagine has more credibility than posting "just believe", or "no matter the issue it is likely not related to anything Tivo just buy one").


Well, buried down in the replies you now recomend the product.

The title still says "DO NOT BUY A TIVO HD".

Al


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> than posting "just believe", or "no matter the issue it is likely not related to anything Tivo just buy one").


actually it was just a very few people trying to diagnose your problem and deciding on signal issues. Most of those you call "fanboys" were more saying that they had faith TiVo would fix their issues and it looks like they were also correct.


----------



## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> No amount of posting about fictitious signal issues from anyone will change that. Fact is I was one of the few that stuck to my guns that this was clearly a Tivo issue that needed resolution, not a fictitious signal issue as many (and I do mean you as well as others) would have people believe.


I never said it couldn't be a Tivo problem, just that there were other possibilities, including a signal issue. I was speaking from personal experience, since I had pretty much the same symptoms as you did when I first got my S3.

Just because your issue turned out to be a Tivo software issue doesn't negate that it could have been a signal issue, which, as far as the pixelation issues go, were previously FAR more common than Tivo software issues.

The fact is, everytime something doesn't go as expected, people seem to IMMEDIATELY think whatever it is is a Tivo issue, without doing much due diligence. Sometimes this is warranted, but in MANY cases it ends up having nothing to do with Tivo.

I was certainly part of the group that had faith Tivo would fix the problem (and relatively quickly) if it was indeed a Tivo problem. You and others were skeptical, perhaps because you don't have the past experience with Tivo as some of us do, and there were plenty of "Chicken-Little-This-Product-is-Crap" posts.

I think we all agree that it would've been better had the c2 level been the shipping level of code, but, for whatever the reason, that obviously didn't happen. I would certainly hope that Tivo has done (or is doing) an RCA to determine if this is indicative of a more systemic problem with the development/testing process that need to be addressed.


----------



## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

jfh3 said:


> your issue turned out to be a Tivo software issue


Is this established?

I'm seeing the symptoms in other environments so I'm surprised at that.

If Tivo _has_ developed a post-signal solution, perhaps they can license it to other vendors. This could be a very, very big deal!


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Redux said:


> Is this established?
> 
> I'm seeing the symptoms in other environments so I'm surprised at that.
> 
> If Tivo _has_ developed a post-signal solution, perhaps they can license it to other vendors. This could be a very, very big deal!


It is not a post signal issue that rectifies bad signal issues. It is a fix to the software that allows it to properly display a signal that is in range.


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

acvthree said:


> Well, buried down in the replies you now recomend the product.
> 
> The title still says "DO NOT BUY A TIVO HD".
> 
> Al


I added an Edit Prominently in the opening post. Orignial sentiment applies at the time, now I have changed my mind as the software has been updated 3 times since I bought my Tivo HD:

1. Slot 2 Issue Update
2. Motorola SCard Pixelation Fix - I am guessing based on responses from people possibly could have fixed some others as well.
3. SA SCard Pixelation Fix


----------



## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> It is not a post signal issue that rectifies bad signal issues. It is a fix to the software that allows it to properly display a signal that is in range.


What a GREAT software fix. Can you provide a reference?


----------



## Rebate_King (Nov 10, 2004)

moderators, can we please lock this potentially damaging thread and let it die?


----------



## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Redux said:


> What a GREAT software fix. Can you provide a reference?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365040


----------



## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

Chimpware said:


> 2. Motorola SCard Pixelation Fix


No effect at all on the typical glitches I get from some cable stations; too bad.


----------



## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

Rebate_King said:


> moderators, can we please lock this potentially damaging thread and let it die?


Lock it why?


----------



## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Rebate_King said:


> moderators, can we please lock this potentially damaging thread and let it die?


It doesn't violate any forum standard here, if we canned every thread where negative stuff was said about TiVo, the place would be empty and The Coffee House section would be gone.


----------



## Uberjava (Apr 29, 2008)

fishboy said:


> I'd also second (third?) that opinion. I was not really that close to returning it, but I had a knot in my stomach because of the initial disappointment in the quality. Right now, I am a *very* happy TivoHD user. Thanks for the quick response Tivo!


Fishboy, I'm also in Canton and considering dropping Dish and going with Comcast. I have a couple of questions:

Comcast Quality. Are you happy with HD/SD PQ and audio?
Channel Line up. I noticed in a prior post from you that Canton uses the Forsyth/Bartow line up. Is that still the case? How does that compare with the ATL line up (ie, what's missing)
Tivo / Comcast. Back to this post, are you still happy with the Tivo / Comcast performance?

Thanks, much!


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Uberjava said:


> Fishboy, I'm also in Canton and considering dropping Dish and going with Comcast. I have a couple of questions:
> 
> Comcast Quality. Are you happy with HD/SD PQ and audio?
> Channel Line up. I noticed in a prior post from you that Canton uses the Forsyth/Bartow line up. Is that still the case? How does that compare with the ATL line up (ie, what's missing)
> ...


Holy thread resurrection batman! The post you are responding to is almost 9 months old. If you want to get in touch with the person who posted that message you would be better off sending them a Private Message (PM).


----------



## Uberjava (Apr 29, 2008)

jmpage2 said:


> Holy thread resurrection batman! The post you are responding to is almost 9 months old. If you want to get in touch with the person who posted that message you would be better off sending them a Private Message (PM).


Sorry. I thought of PMing him, but thought others may be interested in topic/response.


----------



## fishboy (Aug 19, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> Holy thread resurrection batman! The post you are responding to is almost 9 months old. If you want to get in touch with the person who posted that message you would be better off sending them a Private Message (PM).


No worries. I'm still here...

I am still very happy with my Comcast/TivoHD setup. The PQ is as good as any I've seen. I also found out that I have a nice benefit from using the Comcast DVR ... I get notified from Tivo when Comcast has added/deleted channels. I never get any notification from Comcast.

Re: the line up for Bartow/Forsyth... I think the only difference is the channel order, all the channels are there, just a different order. I am on the extreme east side of Cherokee county, so if you are closer to the city of Canton, you may get the other lineup as I have seen a Comcast Canton lineup and it is different than the one I get. I don't really understand why, but haven't questioned it since everything is working very well for me.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Uberjava (Apr 29, 2008)

fishboy said:


> No worries. I'm still here...
> 
> I am still very happy with my Comcast/TivoHD setup. The PQ is as good as any I've seen. I also found out that I have a nice benefit from using the Comcast DVR ... I get notified from Tivo when Comcast has added/deleted channels. I never get any notification from Comcast.
> 
> ...


Thanks much, Fishboy.

I'm glad you are still happy. I'll probably go back to the "dark side". Since I have two Dish DVR's feeding 4 TV's, I'll probably go the two tivo boxes (at least), like you did. Thanks, again


----------

