# 20.6.3.RC7 system update: mini disconnects only on liveTV



## el-such-n-such (Oct 18, 2005)

Problem: Mini -> Roamio OTA, error V87 disconnects *only* on liveTV
Error occurs with an intermittent frequency between approx 2-20 minutes

Recorded shows work.
Streaming apps work.
Happens when no shows are being recorded, or not.
Work fine until less than 2 weeks ago, setup was installed almost 20 months ago without changes.

Looks like Roamio DVR was updated on 11/19/2016 with 20.6.3.RC7, not sure when the Mini was updated.

No network related issues, and I have verified that replacing the current network devices has *no* effect. I originally thought something with my antenna signal was degraded, but I have ruled that out. I have verify that signal strength with Roamio DVR is not dropping out. If this was the issue, I'd get a "loss of signal type error".

Looking at the network captures (using wireshark) between these devices, it looks like the *mini* is sending a TCP FIN/ACK packet to the Roamio to close the stream? But I confess, that I haven't looked at these network streams before today, so I may not be looking at the data correctly.
I see good ICMP echo/echo-reply messages between these devices throughout the liveTV session.

I have verified that both devices pass connection tests, and *all* Tivo and *all* network equipment has been restarted multiple times. I have powered down everything connected to my network to rule-out a misbehaving device that could be causing issues for this, but recorded content is NOT affected.

My Roamio was a warranty exchange in early 3/2015, and I have experienced issues with Netflix only, when the DVR is almost out of disk space, and Tivo Suggestions were enabled. Clearing disk space + disabling suggestions (and/or system update in 2015) appeared to resolve that issue.

I see others on the Mini forums talking about tuner reservations. Perhaps my issue is related to tuners, but the opposite? The DVR is not reserving a tuner for the Mini exclusively?

Pointers/suggestions are welcomed.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

el-such-n-such said:


> I see others on the Mini forums talking about tuner reservations. Perhaps my issue is related to tuners, but the opposite? The DVR is not reserving a tuner for the Mini exclusively?
> Pointers/suggestions are welcomed.


Some ideas. First, the host does not reserve a tuner for the Mini. It does reserve a tuner for the host. There are two things to observe. Hit Info, then down. You now see three tuners. If a Mini is using one it will be so noted. The order is meaningless. Next is Settings & Messages, Account & System Info, TiVo box Diagnostics. You have screens that show all four tuners. The channel number is displayed. If you were on cable I know that "Time since Tune Start" is how long that tuner has been on that channel. I hope OTA has something like that. The value is in seconds.

Perhaps armed with more information you can narrow down the problem. I have never heard of this problem aside from network issues. If you hit the TiVo button on a Mini's remote, it releases the tuner. Or you can wait four hours.


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## el-such-n-such (Oct 18, 2005)

Thank you for the reply, and the clarification on reserving tuners.

On the Roamio, I do see a tuner taken by the Mini, when using "Info | V".

On the "Tivo box Diagnostics", looking at the tuners, I don't see anything that looks out of place, either.

I'm watching multicast traffic now to see if there is anything obvious going on there.
I saw these other posts that sound like they are the opposite of what I'm experiencing:
- recordings do NOT work
- liveTV does work

So I'm on the lookout for IGMP related issues...
This appears to be the most likely issue. I'm looking for "smart switch" config utilities that will enable/disable IGMP snooping...


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I just tested four Mini boxes that received the 20.6.3 update. Observation:
Guide needs to be set to remove left column, unless you like it.
One Mini is v1, others are v2
One v2 is connected to TV that supports DD. This one has a pop noise when leaving live video (switching in/out of DD). I also lost audio once when I brought it out of Standby. It needed a restart to get the audio back
The other Mini boxes are connected to TV sets without DD ability and have no audio problems.


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## dbodner (Apr 18, 2011)

FWIW I'm having the exact same problems. Live TV will stream to my mini's fine for about 30 seconds, then give a V70 error. Apps stream fine. Browser streams fine. Recorded shows stream fine. Absolutely nothing has changed in my network setup and these Roamio -> mini setup has never experienced anything like this in the last 2 years, then started happening immediately after 20.6.3.


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## thompsr2 (Oct 21, 2015)

I am also experiencing a similar problem. Twice since the update rolled out, I have been watching live TV on my Mini when I get an error message stating that the connection to the host DVR was lost. Both instances occurred after watching TV on the mini for probably at least an hour I'd say. However, in both instances, I was immediately able to select 'Watch live TV' and the problem did not come back for the remaining duration of my TV watching.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm not putting blame on this change: 20.6.3 but it is something to watch. A Mini has always had a hard time adjusting to a change in the IP address of the host. On occasion I have pulled the plug on my Roamio's bridge, causing it to move to wireless. A Mini fails to work if the host is wireless. After reconnection of the bridge, and the move back to the original IP address, the Mini still refuses to work on the host even though it appears in the list of hosts. I have two Roamio boxes, and can use the other Roamio or just power cycle the Mini. I'm not saying this is your problem, but something to file for future reference.


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## Darkwing10 (Jun 5, 2016)

I just connected my Tivo with Cox cable today. I am experiencing the same issue. I am unable to watch live tv on the mini fir more than 30 seconds. I am using a Bolt. It states error 87


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

suddenly seeing something similar. Live live seems fine. Recordings fine. Within 30 min pause bfr, V87 cnnct lost within about 1 min of hitting play. FF or 30 sec skip also triggers V87. 20.6.3RC7 on Mini.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## mntvjunkie (May 13, 2009)

I have been having the same problem for a few weeks now, which is disappointing because it means I can no longer watch Comcast On Demand from the Mini either. If I watch a live show, it disconnects within minutes, but if I start recording that live show and give it even 10 seconds, the recording plays fine.

I have a static IP assigned to both the Tivo and the Mini, and I also have a very high end router. (In addition, both the Mini and the Tivo are hard wired).


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

Found the logs & the Mini is complaining about not being able to send 64 bytes in 15 seconds. Hmm.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## ferreter (Nov 25, 2005)

My sister has the same issue. She connected her Mini to her Roamio Pro via Moca and when she tries to watch live TV it works for about 30 seconds and she gets an error that says something like "Your network has a problem". She can watch recorded shows on her Mini just fine. Is there any solution to this?


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## DerekSF (May 16, 2013)

I'm having similar problems. I have 2 Tivo Mini's connected to a Premier XL4, using gigabit ethernet, high end Asus router. Been working fine for 3 years, no changes on my end. Last few days been getting random disconnects, and C421 and C422 errors, when I can't access my shows live streaming usually still works.

I noticed the XL4 in my living room has restarted on its own in the morning the last 2 days, and Amazon App looked quite different and sure enough RC7. I'm pretty sure RC7 is the issue. RC stands for Release Candidate, usually your final beta builds for testing and not something released to a general audience. I did sign up for an earlier release years ago, anyone know how to get off that list? At this point I'd rather have stability then the latest features.


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

the RC thing makes no sense as I have never signed up for beta or early release sw. All of my units have RC7.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

CybrFyre said:


> the RC thing makes no sense as I have never signed up for beta or early release sw. All of my units have RC7.


All TiVo boxes for the last two years have RC in their software versions. Didn't you know it stands for Really Cool?


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## pbakers (Sep 29, 2009)

CybrFyre said:


> Found the logs & the Mini is complaining about not being able to send 64 bytes in 15 seconds. Hmm.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


How do you access logs on a mini or roamio plus?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

pbakers said:


> How do you access logs on a mini or roamio plus?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


system info screen. clear-clear-enter-enter-0 .

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## ferreter (Nov 25, 2005)

ferreter said:


> My sister has the same issue. She connected her Mini to her network via Moca and when she tries to watch live TV it works for about 30 seconds and she gets an error that says something like "Your network has a problem". She can watch recorded shows on her Mini just fine. Is there any solution to this?


So my sister's issue got resolved. She was connecting her Roamio Pro to her router via Wifi. I switched her to Moca (Verizon FIOS) and followed these steps from another forum:

"To start you would unplug the mini from power. Leave it disconnected for now. On the Roamio go from TiVo Central>Apps and Games. We're looking for the allow/disable home network applications option. It should be allowed so if it says "allow home network applications" go ahead and do so, if it says "disable home network applications" go ahead and disallow then reallow the network applications. Once that is done force a connection to TiVo service by going from TiVo Central>Settings and Messages>Settings>Network>Connect to TiVo Service Now. Restart the mini after that and we'll check for this issue again."

All is well now.


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

Tested both my minis with live, working perfectly.


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## Jay2tak (Jun 10, 2009)

I have a Roamio Pro and a Premiere XL4, Have no problem using XL4 as host, however using the pro it freezes on live TV.


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## wunderhund (Apr 18, 2013)

ferreter said:


> "To start you would unplug the mini from power. Leave it disconnected for now. On the Roamio go from TiVo Central>Apps and Games. We're looking for the allow/disable home network applications option. It should be allowed so if it says "allow home network applications" go ahead and do so, if it says "disable home network applications" go ahead and disallow then reallow the network applications. Once that is done force a connection to TiVo service by going from TiVo Central>Settings and Messages>Settings>Network>Connect to TiVo Service Now. Restart the mini after that and we'll check for this issue again."
> 
> All is well now.


I am experiencing, as of the past couple of days, the same "network lost" error with a Mini running 20.6.3.RC15 when watching live TV -- tried the fix above with my Premiere as host and still have the problem with v87 error. Setup had been fine for more than a year.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

What I have tried, no solution yet, must be a bug, everyone please open a case with TIVO so they will know this needs fixed first. Other wise they will just think one or two have the issue Link is below

1. I have tried this fix also, this is not a fix to the issue, it simply tries to reset the MOCA setup.

2. Both of my Minis are now on RC15, no change.

Issue seems to be worse when you put one of the Minis in Standby or if it times out form use and goes to the Push the Tivo button to watch TV

3. Other says change the MOCA channel to 27 to avoid interference and that fixed some PROBLEM is on RC15 on the BOLT you can no longer change channels so this is no fix. Mine is on MOCA channel 23

4. My Moca Speed is 280 MPS my TX is -27 and -26 is that too high or low?
I tried 3 sets of Splitters including Moca Certified splitters and several POE filters from different brands.

5. OPEN ITEM- Only think left I can think of is all no COAX buying 3 GHZ rated COAX but that will be hard to run through walls.

6. Temp work around- I did try Ethernet to narrow it down, did not have the issue but Ethernet is not possible in the rooms I need the MINI

7. Tried Static IPs on both MINIs , did not help

EVERYONE Please open a Case with TIVO. Here is the link to the form.
Contact Us


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## dsando (Sep 12, 2015)

I have recently started having the same problem. 

My set up is completely gig Ethernet. No MOCA. I am seeing it on 2 Mini's Only on live TV, no issue with recordings.

I am leaning toward bug also, as it has only been happening for the last month or so and nothing has changed in my network.


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## el-such-n-such (Oct 18, 2005)

*Does anyone know exactly where we can find the definition of the error V87?*
If it's a connection to Tivo hosted servers via the Internet, that may have been my problem.

I ended up replacing ethernet cables, and all network gear in my home LAN, because I'm a network professional, I now have entry level enterprise gear connecting all of this together.

When that had no effect, I started looking at my Xfinity/Comcast ISP. I did find issues there, I started noticing variable packet loss, that never went away completely. Several service calls and a service-trunk-roll to my home, and the comcast tech agreed that there was a neighborhood network issue and raised a service ticket. This took weeks to resolve, and when they were done, I still had low level packet loss. My personal cable modem was no longer supported, so I upgraded to a new modem on the supported list, and the low level packet loss issue was gone. The modem replacement was 2017/01/20 approximately.

With so many things going on (plus some personal events that distracted me from this issue), *I didn't notice right away when the mini disconnects stopped occurring*. I don't believe I've seen this occur since the modem was replaced... I didn't remember this forum post until today, so I'm back here to check in.

Comcast/Xfinity has dropped many modems from the supported list. In the fall of 2016, I called-in and downgraded my service to Performance Internet (25 down/5 up), when they had automatically upgraded my service to the next tier. The faster tier was actually much worse than Performance, many intermittent issues and flaky speed tests... That should have tipped me off, that there were issues with my modem and the way it was performing on the Comcast network, but it didn't register.

If I have some time, I may try and block outbound network traffic out of my network and see if I can trigger error V87 and confirm that this is the root cause or not.

If anyone has any better feedback on this matter, I'd love to hear it.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I believe V87 signifies a disconnect (insufficient bandwidth or response) between the Mini and its host DVR, and the Internet connection shouldn't have an effect. It's possible that your V87 errors went away if your devices updated to 20.7.1, which supposedly included some fixes related to Mini/host communication.


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