# Out of home streaming



## Dan203

Apparently as part of the new Series 5 release they are ulgrading the Stream to support out of hime streaming. So now you can watch shows on the road like a Slingbox. :up: No word on exactly when this feature will be available, but several of the reviews of the new S5 mention it's coming and Engadget mentioned using it with a Stream and not just the internal Stream of the new box.

This will be great for those that travel a lot or who have an MSO that makes excessive use of the CCI bit.


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## mr_smits

Dan203 said:


> Apparently as part of the new Series 5 release they are ulgrading the Stream to support out of hime streaming. So now you can watch shows on the road like a Slingbox. :up: No word on exactly when this feature will be available, but several of the reviews of the new S5 mention it's coming and Engadget mentioned using it with a Stream and not just the internal Stream of the new box.
> 
> This will be great for those that travel a lot or who have an MSO that makes excessive use of the CCI bit.


After the speed improvements, this is the biggest feature for the new Tivo Series 5. It definitely keeps at bay my interest in switching to Dish for their Slingbox style remote viewing. Hopefully this new feature will be available soon.


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## NotNowChief

I see the term "coming soon" used in a few places Dan. That scares me. DTA on the Mini was "coming soon" too.


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## Das Achteck

From the press release:

Coming very soon, out-of-home streaming will allow subscribers to stream TV and recorded shows to your iPad® or iPhone®. The built-in TiVo Stream feature allows users to connect to their Roamio over Wi-Fi and watch recordings and cable channels almost ANYWHERE.** 
...

** Streaming is restricted to a limited number of devices owned by the TiVo subscriber. Due to content provider restrictions, not all content can be streamed out of home and some content may only be streamed while a mobile device is on the same local network as the subscriber's DVR. Mobile devices sold separately.


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## Dan203

NotNowChief said:


> DTA on the Mini was "coming soon" too.


And according to a tweet from Margret DTA is available today for Mini users with a Roamio. I don't think we'll see it on the Premiere until the next software update though, which is probably a few weeks out.


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## Austin Bike

Once DTA is available, will we be able to use a mini with a 2 tuner model?


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## windracer

Das Achteck said:


> Due to content provider restrictions, not all content can be streamed out of home and some content may only be streamed while a mobile device is on the same local network as the subscriber's DVR. Mobile devices sold separately.


Ugh, so that means I basically wouldn't be able to stream _anything_ outside of my home thanks to Brighthouse's liberal application of the CCI flag.


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## button1066

Presumably the out of home streaming will involve lower resolutions and bit rates than the two options currently available especially since 3G/4G is supported. The out of home aspect came out of the blue for me and is something I'll be using for sure.


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## Das Achteck

Dan203 said:


> And according to a tweet from Margret DTA is available today for Mini users with a Roamio. I don't think we'll see it on the Premiere until the next software update though, which is probably a few weeks out.


This does not look promising.

https://tivo.com/shop/mini

"TiVo Roamio DVRs allow for dynamic tuner allocation, so the tuner is only used when the Mini needs it and is released back to the DVR for use when the TiVo Mini isnt in use. TiVo Premiere DVRs do NOT support dynamic tuner allocation, so any Mini connected to a Premiere is allocated a constantly dedicated tuner and therefore reduces the tuners available for the Premiere DVR."


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## ahwman

windracer said:


> Ugh, so that means I basically wouldn't be able to stream _anything_ outside of my home thanks to Brighthouse's liberal application of the CCI flag.


I'm also with Bright House and I'm hoping that we will be able to stream copy protected content out of network or else It would severely cripple this feature. I wish TiVo was more clear about what exactly we can stream away from home...


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## Dan203

Das Achteck said:


> This does not look promising.
> 
> https://tivo.com/shop/mini
> 
> "TiVo Roamio DVRs allow for dynamic tuner allocation, so the tuner is only used when the Mini needs it and is released back to the DVR for use when the TiVo Mini isnt in use. TiVo Premiere DVRs do NOT support dynamic tuner allocation, so any Mini connected to a Premiere is allocated a constantly dedicated tuner and therefore reduces the tuners available for the Premiere DVR."


They promised DTA for Premieres long ago. If they back out now they're going to have a lot of p*ssed off customers. I'm betting it part of the Fall update.


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## windracer

Do we have any idea on how this is actually going to work? Will it require UPnP on the router? With all the "hoops" I had to jump through to get the TiVo app to think it was on my home network and properly route Bonour traffic with OpenVPN, I'm curious as to how this will "just work" for the average home user.


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## Das Achteck

According to the WSJ review, that would be October or November for out of home going live so presumably we will know then about DTA for the Premiere.


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## severe

As both a Premiere and Slingbox owner, this feature is one I've been most interested in. Consolidating the features would remove the Slingbox from the tangled mess that is my entertainment center.

However, I'd like to know the quality of the streams. Also, the Slingbox enables one to stream to their mobile devices _and_ through a browser window on a computer, which really makes it convenient for almost anywhere you may want to view your TV remotely. And with no application to download. Just sign-in, on a supported browser (Safari, Firefox, or Chrome), and view.

What are the odds TiVo will include browser viewing?


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## bradleys

severe said:


> What are the odds TiVo will include browser viewing?


I keep saying this, maybe just so I will believe it myslef - But, I think TiVo has an updated TiVo desktop in mind for the PC market that will support the stream.

I have a couple of reasons for believing this - One small clue is the simple image on their whole home service advertisement.










But, this is just a rumor, that I am trying to start!


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## Dan203

At the Cable Show in June they showed a complete TiVo UI running in a browser, with the ability to play shows. It was for some Charter CloudTV thing, but if they release that for retail users then it would open up streaming to any device with a browser.


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## Austin Bike

If streaming works on any device with a browser, then android support is partially there. They just need to get the download piece.


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## severe

bradleys said:


> One small clue is the simple image on their whole home service advertisement...





Dan203 said:


> At the Cable Show in June they showed a complete TiVo UI running in a browser, with the ability to play shows...


Nice. Thank you.

Looking forward to the official roll out and reading reports on stream quality.


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## Austin Bike

Roamio has 3 models. The low end model does not have Stream built in, it is an option.

This says 2 things to me:

1. Tivo will not abandon Stream, there will have to be future support because they need it for Roamio.

2. If Roamio has "remote streaming" (i.e. outside of your local network) and some models of Roamio require stream, there is a possibility that the functionality *could* come to premiere on Stream as well.

Interesting times ahead.


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## buscuitboy

For ANY TiVo, I personally would not expect a total slingbox like feature for live TV OUTSIDE the home anytime soon. ALL cable companies still do not allow this & I suspect they won't allow a TiVo to allow it either.

Maybe streaming recorded material outside the home is more likely, but I would not count on live streaming outside the home.



Austin Bike said:


> Once DTA is available, will we be able to use a mini with a 2 tuner model?


And I HIGHLY doubt this will happen either.


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## bradleys

buscuitboy said:


> Maybe streaming recorded material outside the home is more likely, but I would not count on live streaming outside the home.


Well, streaming live TV actually doesn't work at all on the Stream. You have to initiate a recording, then you can start to stream that recording locally.

I do not expect this to change - if they add streaming outside the home to the TiVo Stream and the Premier line, it will only support streaming of recorded content. Exactly they way it works today.

My concern is quality.

If you are looking for Netflix style stream quality, I think we will be disapointed. You have two bottlenecks - upload from your local environment and download from the internet. I will guarentee that your (the royal your) jacked up network setup is going to choke and cough a lot with this setup.


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## atmuscarella

bradleys said:


> Well, streaming live TV actually doesn't work at all on the Stream. You have to initiate a recording, then you can start to stream that recording locally.
> 
> I do not expect this to change - if they add streaming outside the home to the TiVo Stream and the Premier line, it will only support streaming of recorded content. Exactly they way it works today.
> 
> My concern is quality.
> 
> If you are looking for Netflix style stream quality, I think we will be disapointed. You have two bottlenecks - upload from your local environment and download from the internet. I will guarentee that your (the royal your) jacked up network setup is going to choke and cough a lot with this setup.


Ya streaming outside of my home is a non-starter for me. I have to use frontier DSL (no other option) and my upload speeds (tested to a local frontier server) never get above 0.35 Mbps.


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## Dan203

They said they will have downloads outside the home as well, so maybe you'll still be able to, slowly, download a show outside the home. Probably better to do that before you leave, but if something doesn't air until after you're on your trip it'll be an option.


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## Austin Bike

What is this "live TV" that people talk of? Is that the thing with all of the commercials?

I think the only time I ever watch live TV is for football games. If I am in a hotel in Beijing or Moscow I just want access to recorded TV. Live TV is fairly worthless for me because the time zones are screwy.


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## mattack

Austin Bike said:


> 2. If Roamio has "remote streaming" (i.e. outside of your local network) and some models of Roamio require stream, there is a possibility that the functionality *could* come to premiere on Stream as well.


I think it's more than a possibility.

The reviewers *have* been using a Tivo Stream with this capability..

Yes, *technically* they could be using a mockup running on the Stream that will only officially come out on the Roamio.. but I don't think so.. Esp since the low end Roamio doesn't have a built in Stream.


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## zgamer

Technically it does work now...if you have the pipe and can place a vpn tunnel in-front of the mini back to where the main tivo is. Most people don't have the large upload pipes currently for it.


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## Austin Bike

Yeah, upload pipe is an issue today, but Austin gets google fiber next year


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## Dan203

I noticed last night there was an ad for the Roamio on the discovery bar of my Premiere. I clicked it just to check it out and one of the things they were advertising was outside the home streaming coming this Fall. So if they don't follow through on this I would be shocked. It seems like it's one of the core features they're using to sell the new unit.


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## ShayL

Didn't the prerelease reviewers test the out of home streaming?


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## Dan203

Engadget did. Must have been a beta, but at least we know they're working on it.


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## ShayL

That is encouraging. I would be interesting if it can replace my slingbox. I doubt it, but it would be nice.


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## Dan203

You should be able to once it's released. Although there was a weird blurb about how outside the home streaming may be blocked by the copyright holder, so there could be some unforeseen limitation that could ruin it's utility. We'll have to wait and see what happens there.


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## Dan203

I just saw an interview with some guy from the WSJ who got to test the out of home streaming. He specifically mentioned that "some premium channels" don't want to let you stream outside the home. So it sounds like there is going to be a limitation on this. I wonder if it'll use the CCI bit or some other criteria to decide what can and cannot be streamed outside the home?


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## ahwman

Dan203 said:


> I just saw an interview with some guy from the WSJ who got to test the out of home streaming. He specifically mentioned that "some premium channels" don't want to let you stream outside the home. So it sounds like there is going to be a limitation on this. I wonder if it'll use the CCI bit or some other criteria to decide what can and cannot be streamed outside the home?


I read the same interview and I suspect that by "Premium Channels" he was referring to pay channels such as "HBO", "Showtime", etc. Otherwise, "Out of home streaming" would be practically worthless since MOST channels for me at least are marked as copy once. I pasted another beta tester's comments below:

Another problem: Some premium networks, like HBO and Showtime, couldn't be streamed out of the home. TiVo explains this is because of the networks' polices, over which it has no control. But the TiVo app, like others out there, could include an authentication feature that would tell these networks you subscribe to them, which typically allows you to stream them to a mobile device.


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## Dan203

So do you think TiVo has direct deals with various networks to block or allow streaming? Or do you think these testers just happen to live in areas where the cable company only blocks the premium channels?


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## ahwman

Dan203 said:


> So do you think TiVo has direct deals with various networks to block or allow streaming? Or do you think these testers just happen to live in areas where the cable company only blocks the premium channels?


It's hard to say since neither TiVo nor beta testers are clear as to what will be allowed. I even emailed [email protected] and she wasn't sure how it would work. That said, I'm thinking that premium channels carry a special identifier which would disable streaming for that particular channel. Perhaps we can direct this question to one of the beta testers for clarification. The selling point of out of home streaming is in jeopardy if all copy once channels are blocked. Quite honestly, it amazes me how these content providers get away with locking down their programming so tight, what are they so afraid of? The world will end if you and I stream a rerun of Giligan's Island to our iPads...


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## Beryl

ShayL said:


> I would be interesting if it can replace my slingbox. I doubt it, but it would be nice.


I'd like to reduce the number of things networked in my house and connected to my televisions also but don't think it will happen any time soon given my experience with the Stream and TiVo. 


Dan203 said:


> He specifically mentioned that "some premium channels" don't want to let you stream outside the home.


This is why I expect to be still using my Slingbox and Vulkano through 2015. The Stream will be a faster way to get some content on my mobile device but not for streaming from my TiVo.

Sorry for sounding like a Debbie Downer and I really hope I'm wrong.


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## Dan203

ahwman said:


> I'm thinking that premium channels carry a special identifier which would disable streaming for that particular channel.


No such identifier exists. There are basically 3 flags in CableCARD DRM. Copy Freely, Copy Once and Copy Never. Copy Freely is self explianatory. Copy Once means a DVR can record one copy, but after that the flag is changed to Copy No More. Copy Never allows a show to be recorded but it can only be retained for 90 minutes then it has to be automatically deleted.

So unless TiVo can maintain some sort of list of channels and flag the guide data the only way they can block anything is based on the Copy Once flag. And if they do that then it's basically no different then the Download option except that you don't actually have to download anything.


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## spaldingclan

Glad I'm ota only. Don't even think about cci stuff


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## Dan203

spaldingclan said:


> Glad I'm ota only. Don't even think about cci stuff


It's illegal for cable companies to protect anything transmitted OTA even if it's rebroadcast on cable, so cable users always have access to the same channels you do. What they may not have access to are all the other channels they pay for. Most cable companies only protect the premium channels, but some are d*cks and protect everything.


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## SugarBowl

I imagine companies that provide their own streaming solution will not allow this (HBO Go, WatchESPN, etc). 

The Time Warner Cable streaming services do not provide these channels.


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## mattack

ShayL said:


> Didn't the prerelease reviewers test the out of home streaming?


ON A TIVO STREAM AS I SAID A FEW MESSAGES UP.


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## wco81

Das Achteck said:


> According to the WSJ review, that would be October or November for out of home going live so presumably we will know then about DTA for the Premiere.


November would be disappointing.

Really looking forward to the feature, because otherwise, the app. on the iPad is really well done.


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