# Tivo just got some real OTA competition - new Channel Master with Vudu



## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...dvr-records-ota-streams-vudu-but-not-netflix/



> The Channel Master TV is designed to be a one-stop box for cord-cutters.
> 
> Cutting the cable can be done, but one of the toughest challenges is replacing live TV programs, like sports and local news. We've long been advocates of over-the-air (OTA) HDTV to fill the gap, but there aren't many OTA DVRs and the existing models have significant drawbacks, including the Channel Master CM-7000PAL we reviewed earlier this year.
> 
> ...






























some better specs than tivo from the top of my head, VUDU, built in wireless, bigger drive, clear QAM support, social networking features, picasa, flikr, and a clock for those that have been complaining about it

more specs and pics here: http://www.channelmaster.com/Channel_Master_TV_s/304.htm


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

If you call this real competition then you have no idea what a TiVo DVR is. Oh and by the way it doesn't have a bigger hard drive

I'll take the Premiere for $100 more any day.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

$400? :down:


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> If you call this real competition then you have no idea what a TiVo DVR is. Oh and by the way it doesn't have a bigger hard drive
> 
> I'll take the Premiere for $100 more any day.


relax nancy. see if you neighbors grandma who wants to buy a DVR for her rabbit ears is going to buy a $600 tivo that requires her to make an online account and constant internet connection for guide data or a $400 DVR thats just plug and play and gets guide data OTA?

you obviously dont know the consumer market.

the web features on both units is just extra sauce for a small percentage of the market.

i must of been thinking of the tivo hd drive then.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Looks like a really crappy version of a Tivo to me. That would be fine if it was like $100. This is basically what most people THINK a Tivo is, a VCR with a hard drive. Tivo is definitely worth the extra $200.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

If they offered it free with the Channel Master antenna and free installation, maybe, I'd take them seriously.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Competition is good. However, the price point seems problematic, service seems lower than tivo or a streamer, and the name recognition is nonexistent. How many tuners does it have? It has a 1985 style of programming?

Not quite the level of competition to keep things moving, in my opinion.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Aero 1 said:


> relax nancy. see if you neighbors grandma who wants to buy a DVR for her rabbit ears is going to buy a $600 tivo that requires her to make an online account and constant internet connection for guide data or a $400 DVR thats just plug and play and gets guide data OTA?
> 
> you obviously dont know the consumer market.
> 
> ...


If all they want is a dumb DVR then the existing channel master works just fine for less money. Also if you get good guide data or not depends on where you are.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So a box with 21st century hardware that works like a 20th century recording device. 
And on top of that there is a very small recording capcaity. Can you at least transfer the OTA recordings to a PC for extra storage? Like you can with a TiVo.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> So a box with 21st century hardware that works like a 20th century recording device.
> And on top of that there is a very small recording capcaity. Can you at least transfer the OTA recordings to a PC for extra storage? Like you can with a TiVo.


You can not with the current channel master OTA DVR - but I believe you could add USB drives that were used for storage so you could swap them out when full. The current DVR is ok for a low cost simple OTA solution. This one costs about $100 more and appears to only add streaming media not more advanced DVR features.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Price this at <$400, with analog cable and QAM (with mapping), include OTA, and I know several people who would buy them, even without a program guide.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

For OTA only, you need the detailed guide information, season pass and wish list search functionality that Tivo provides.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> For OTA only, you need the detailed guide information, season pass and wish list search functionality that Tivo provides.


How did we ever get by without guides when we had VCR's (and yes, we did). Sure, nice to have a program guide, season passes, etc., but not entirely necessary.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

HomieG said:


> How did we ever get by without guides when we had VCR's (and yes, we did). Sure, nice to have a program guide, season passes, etc., but not entirely necessary.


Not required but it certainly sucked ten years ago when I had to manually set up each OTA HD recording I made with my HiPix cards. And I had to constantly check to make sure nothing changed with the programming each day. 
I certainly would not want to go back to that. It's much nicer being able to setup the Season Passes and not having to check the schedule for changes.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I'm familiar with the old style programming, I would be able to cope.
But it would have to have at least 2 tuners in order to handle conflicts.
No transfers to a computer? No go.
And I don't care about WiFi, I prefer to hard wire my devices.

Finally, the $400 price tag is an immediate turn-off. For a hundred dollars more, I could just get a Premiere w/ Lifetime and have a MUCH better DVR.

Overall rating:


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

No competition at all happening here.

I don't think that anyone who has used a Tivo for any period of time would find this close to being an acceptable substitute.

Like rolling the technology clock 10 years, and getting much less, for not that much less money.


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## rsisters (May 21, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> For OTA only, you need the detailed guide information, season pass and wish list search functionality that Tivo provides.


:up: That really puts it in perspective!


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

It has a CLOCK!

(this seems important to some)

Do I understand correctly that all it implements is *dumb vcr* functionality? They're attempting to market what a S1 Tivo without subscription did back in 1999, combined with 10% of a Roku? Good luck with that.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

At $150, maybe. Not at $400. Even if it does support QAM tuning. This doesn't even look as good as the Sony HDD DVRs and those are what, six years old?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Yeah, sounds like only a single tuner. If it had 2+ tuners, I could see it being useful (even though I definitely like Tivo's "smart" programming).. But at that price? Ridiculous.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

I might buy one of thoes for my bedroom tv that i only use about a hour a day. But dont think i will replace my tivo hd with this

400.00? i will not buy it for that much


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## jfalkingham (Jul 23, 2002)

It appears to have dual tuners and clear QAM



Features
View and record local over-the-air digital broadcast
The most HD movies streaming on demand (Vudu)
Highest quality HD movie streaming available (1080p) by Vudu
Records digital TV and HDTV
Dual Tuned DVR allowing two programs to record simultaneously
Pausing, fast forward and rewind functions
Electronic programming guide and TV guide functions
Social networking + photo sharing apps (Picasa, Flickr )
Advanced search features, schedule recordings, and parental control settings
Video
480i/480p
720p
1080p/1080i
Audio
Dolby® Digital and Dolby® Digital Plus
Tuners
Dual ATSC/Clear QAM¹
No monthly subscription fee
Includes a one year manufacturer's limited warranty
Recording Capacity
320GB Hard Disk Drive²
Up to 35 hours of HD recording³
Up to 150 hours of SD recording³
Wireless
Built-in 802.11b/g/n
Dimensions
10(w) x 7(d) x 1.75(h) inches
Rear Panel Features
RJ-45 Ethernet
USB 2.0
HDMI®
eSATA
Digital Audio (Optical)
RF output
RF antenna/cable input
RCA component and composite video
Stereo audio
Front Panel Features
Illuminated power standby button
Indicators for network status, HD and recording status
USB 2.0
IR receiver
Capacitive touchpad
Clock display
¹	Clear QAM support varies city by city, check your cable provider for compatibility.
²	Recording capacity is an estimate and depends on the type of programming being recorded.
³	Recording hours are eastimated and subject to change.
Requires an antenna for free broadcast TV.
Requires a broadband Internet connection for web movies and apps.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Impressive features. I see it does have a EPG so it isn't just a VCR with a hard drive. 

I'm not personally interested but if it includes free and significant reduced priced blu-ray movies, it will be well received.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Wireless is a waste if you're going to use VUDU. Over the Electronic Program Guide that could that could one day not be available. To be an effective cord cutter you need more smarts than most of the public has. This looks like a solution looking for a question. For a lot of people they would be better off cutting back in their cable and renting a dvr from the cable company.


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## jtreid (Jan 12, 2006)

smbaker said:


> It has a CLOCK!


Yeah. It constantly flashes 12:00.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

MegaZone has posted a very good and detailed article about the new Channel Master DVR including comparing it too buying a Premiere.

http://www.gizmolovers.com/2011/09/14/the-channel-master-tv-cm-7400-an-ota-dvr-alternative-to-tivo/​
Thanks,


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tenthplanet said:


> Wireless is a waste if you're going to use VUDU. Over the Electronic Program Guide that could that could one day not be available. To be an effective cord cutter you need more smarts than most of the public has. This looks like a solution looking for a question. For a lot of people they would be better off cutting back in their cable and renting a dvr from the cable company.


VUDU works perfectly fine over wireless. The average bitrate of the HDX titles is only 9Mbps. I can stream from VUDU on a wireless N connection with zero issues on any of my wireless devices. The result is identical to streaming from my wired gigabit backbone.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

If I wanted this OTA DVR, the good news is the product is DOA at $400 and will be discounted heavily pretty soon. The bad news is I think the premium for TiVo with lifetime is easily justified if this product was only $250, in otherwords, TiVo is worth a $250 premium compared to this rudimentary DVR for me and I believe most of the market. I don't see it getting as low as $250 but I could be wrong.


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## Torgo (Dec 31, 2001)

tenthplanet said:


> Wireless is a waste if you're going to use VUDU.


How so? I use the Vudu client built into my LG tv using wireless and it works just fine, all the way to HDX quality.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Torgo said:


> How so? I use the Vudu client built into my LG tv using wireless and it works just fine, all the way to HDX quality.


I think they probably meant wireless is a waste if you have a crappy router or slow internet. But it has an ethernet port too.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Hmmm. Another thread saying "Tivo is King and all other DVRs suck" when very few posters have actually read the specs of the Channel Master DVR. Pretty much par for the course. Pardon me for laughing, but how many of you bought the HDR-250 HDTivo for $1,000 or the S3 Tivo for $799, neither of which included lifetime service? For a basic OT DVR with dual tuners, $399 isn't a bad price considering there are no additional fees after the initial purchase.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily defending the Channel Master DVR because I don't know how the UI and functionality of the device stacks up. Chances are it can't be any worse than your average cableco DVR. I just don't see how bashing a product you know nothing about serves anyone that's trying to make an informed decision. Tivos are great for digital cable and FIOS but are grossly overpriced if you're going to go OTA only, IMHO. 

Personally, I prefer to do all of my OTA recording via my HTPC but a standalone appliance such as this for OTA recording is just what some people may be looking for. I get lots of flack about HTPCs because many people say they just want an appliance they can plug in and just have it work instead of using another PC. Well, this sounds just like the device you've been asking for. The only reason I've read so far for bashing it is that it's not a Tivo. This may come as a shock to some of you, but everyone out there, especially those that use cableco DVRs or HTPCs, doesn't believe that Tivo walks on water (and neither do I). Try judging a product by it's merits instead of saying it sucks because it doesn't have the Tivo logo plastered on it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I had a device a few years back that pulled guide data off the air like this. The guide only had 3 days worth of data and it was a lot less detailed then TiVos. If this thing uses that same data then it's probably not much more functional then an old S2 unit with "TiVo Basic". (i.e. repeat manual recordings with limited guide data, and a on screen guide)

If it were really cheap, like <$200, it might be worth it. But for $400 I don't think many people would be satisfied.

Dan


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> Hmmm. Another thread saying "Tivo is King and all other DVRs suck" when very few posters have actually read the specs of the Channel Master DVR. Pretty much par for the course. Pardon me for laughing, but how many of you bought the HDR-250 HDTivo for $1,000 or the S3 Tivo for $799, neither of which included lifetime service? For a basic OT DVR with dual tuners, $399 isn't a bad price considering there are no additional fees after the initial purchase.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily defending the Channel Master DVR because I don't know how the UI and functionality of the device stacks up. Chances are it can't be any worse than your average cableco DVR. I just don't see how bashing a product you know nothing about serves anyone that's trying to make an informed decision. Tivos are great for digital cable and FIOS but are grossly overpriced if you're going to go OTA only, IMHO.
> 
> Personally, I prefer to do all of my OTA recording via my HTPC but a standalone appliance such as this for OTA recording is just what some people may be looking for. I get lots of flack about HTPCs because many people say they just want an appliance they can plug in and just have it work instead of using another PC. Well, this sounds just like the device you've been asking for. The only reason I've read so far for bashing it is that it's not a Tivo. This may come as a shock to some of you, but everyone out there, especially those that use cableco DVRs or HTPCs, doesn't believe that Tivo walks on water (and neither do I). Try judging a product by it's merits instead of saying it sucks because it doesn't have the Tivo logo plastered on it.


Who mentioned that it sucked because the TiVo logo wasn't on it? It sounds like a bad product because it's just a dgital VCR. Which might be fine at $100 to $200 for two tuners. But not for $400. I recorded my HD programming ten years ago with basically a digital VCR using a coupel of HiPix cards. And nowadays you can get several cheap USB OTA tuners and connect it to you PC to do your recording if you want recording.

But at a $400 pricepoint, with what you get, that money would be better used for a TiVo with Lifetime. Then you get all the advanced features of TiVo so you don't have to constantly check your programming to make sure it's going to be recorded. I hated doing that with my HD recordings from my HiPix cards.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> but how many of you bought the HDR-250 HDTivo for $1,000 or the S3 Tivo for $799, neither of which included lifetime service? For a basic OT DVR with dual tuners, $399 isn't a bad price considering there are no additional fees after the initial purchase.


Not sure what your point is. You are:
a) Comparing prices for electronics from years ago with today
b) Comparing two products that really had no competition at their time of release to one that is essentially an also-ran.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Definitely agree the pricepoint will have to come down another $100.

It's too close to Tivo's pricepoint at $400. 

It does have wireless built-in though which Tivo doesn't.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

rainwater said:


> I think they probably meant wireless is a waste if you have a crappy router or slow internet. But it has an ethernet port too.


 Very high speed connection internet can make wireless work, when for the speed on internet that most people get, go wired. Wireless in also for the more tech savy who have the patience to mess with it.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> Hmmm. Another thread saying "Tivo is King and all other DVRs suck" when very few posters have actually read the specs of the Channel Master DVR. Pretty much par for the course. Pardon me for laughing, but how many of you bought the HDR-250 HDTivo for $1,000 or the S3 Tivo for $799, neither of which included lifetime service? For a basic OT DVR with dual tuners, $399 isn't a bad price considering there are no additional fees after the initial purchase.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily defending the Channel Master DVR because I don't know how the UI and functionality of the device stacks up. Chances are it can't be any worse than your average cableco DVR. I just don't see how bashing a product you know nothing about serves anyone that's trying to make an informed decision. Tivos are great for digital cable and FIOS but are grossly overpriced if you're going to go OTA only, IMHO.
> 
> Personally, I prefer to do all of my OTA recording via my HTPC but a standalone appliance such as this for OTA recording is just what some people may be looking for. I get lots of flack about HTPCs because many people say they just want an appliance they can plug in and just have it work instead of using another PC. Well, this sounds just like the device you've been asking for. The only reason I've read so far for bashing it is that it's not a Tivo. This may come as a shock to some of you, but everyone out there, especially those that use cableco DVRs or HTPCs, doesn't believe that Tivo walks on water (and neither do I). Try judging a product by it's merits instead of saying it sucks because it doesn't have the Tivo logo plastered on it.


A TiVo Premiere with lifetime for $500 is available now and unless Channel Master has time travel capabilities and can travel back to compete at a time when HD DVRs were more expensive, I guess I don't understand your point. A couple of days ago, it was reported that a refurbished TiVo Premiere with lifetime could have been purchased for $450. Some might prefer to buy TiVo for $99 and pay $10/month for service than pay $400 for this rudimentary DVR but I can't imagine anybody will pay $400 for the Channel Master DVR today, this product is DOA at $400.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I don't even see who this product will appeal to. An OTA DVR that has networking but no real guide data except what is downloaded OTA (which is terrible from using it in the past). And it only works with Vudu (which is the most expensive VOD service out there). Chances are CM will not really support this product with software upgrades either.

Now if it were $150-$200 I could see how it might appeal to some users. Othewise, I'm guessing it will not sell well.


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## Mr. ELITE (Jun 8, 2011)

Just curious....with a device like TIVO, can the company add additional programs like VUDU or FLIKR without extra hardware (i.e. just firmware updates)?

It was mentioned earlier that TIVO might be overkill for OTA only. I'm in that category since I just purchased a lifetime sub. Oh well, I'm new to TIVO and like what I've seen so far. I think it's money well spent (unless the box dies prematurely).

BTW, there's been talk that only one core of the dual core chip is being used. Forgive my computer illiteracy, but what can TIVO engineers do with the extra processing power if they could get the full potential of the CPU working?

john


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> MegaZone has posted a very good and detailed article about the new Channel Master DVR including comparing it too buying a Premiere.
> 
> http://www.gizmolovers.com/2011/09/14/the-channel-master-tv-cm-7400-an-ota-dvr-alternative-to-tivo/​
> Thanks,


Good info, thanks. Unfortunately:


> The new box claims"Advanced search features, schedule recordings, and parental control settings", but it isn't very specific so it isn't clear how much of an improvement it is over the old box.


which is a major issue when comparing this to a TiVo.

The more I research the OTA DVR's using free EPG, the more I begin to see the $129/year I pay for TiVo guide data for my THD as a good deal. The $10/month special offer for OTA-only Premiere subs (www.solidsignal.com) is even slightly better, although it's bothersome that the Premiere's OTA tuner sensitivity is reportedly somewhat inferior to that of the THD.

EDIT: Ability to easily increase storage to at least 1 TB total would also be critical to me, and this also isn't clear at this tiime per the linked article.


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## docrings (Nov 29, 2012)

I just upgraded to a lifetime subscription Series 3 HD in my living room, replacing a Channel Master CM-7000PAL PVR (OTA antenna).

I am actually on this thread to see why my Tivo at 1080i or 720p exhibits SOOOO much more macro-blocking than my Channel Master, which is ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS over-the-air HD picture, with ***NO*** macro-blocking, even on high-speed sports. 

My new Tivo? Noticeable macro-blocking, even if I switch between 1080i/720p, and have smoothing "off". This is over HDMI into a Sony LED flat panel (same input channel and video settings).

Any ideas on how to improve the Tivo output picture in regard to macro-blocking/mosquito artifacts?

The Channel Master is a nice unit, never fails, but the OTA guides are hit/miss on information, and of course, no "Season Pass" functionality with the CM, which causes my wife to miss some of her shows if re-scheduled by the network last minute, so the TiVo is a keeper...just wish it had the clarity of the Channel Master at 1080 output.

Thanks!
Doc


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Maybe you need to fine tune your antenna?

Check the signal strength on the Tivo (Messages & Settings -> Settings -> Channels -> Signal Strength).
Go to Antennaweb.org and you can find out exactly where the signal towers are, relative to your location.

Also, tune to a channel that exhibits the macro blocking.
Go to Messages & Settings -> Account and System Information -> DVR Diagnostics.
What is the signal to noise ratio (SNR)?
What kind of numbers are you seeing next to RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected?
(Check the channel number to make sure you are looking at the relevent tuner)

Edit:

What model specifically? A TCD648 or a TCD652?
These are older units that are starting to show signs of 'capacitor plague' (Google it) on the power supplies.
You might want to open up your Tivo and eyeball the capacitors on the power supply.


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

docrings said:


> I just upgraded to a lifetime subscription Series 3 HD in my living room, replacing a Channel Master CM-7000PAL PVR (OTA antenna).
> 
> I am actually on this thread to see why my Tivo at 1080i or 720p exhibits SOOOO much more macro-blocking than my Channel Master, which is ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS over-the-air HD picture, with ***NO*** macro-blocking, even on high-speed sports.
> 
> ...


There is no inherent problem with TiVo that would mean it won't have a picture as good as the Channel Master DVR. What you are seeing is indicative of a problem. As mentioned check antenna signal strength and if that is fine, either the hard drive or tuner might be the problem. I am using two TiVoHD units without any signal or picture quality issues.

If your issues persist, did the seller offer any guarantee the Series 3 TiVo worked properly, can you return it? Did you get this lifetime TiVo from eBay which has some buyer guarantees?


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