# Big Brother - 9/11/13



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

What the heck happened to Judd? He apparently had some sort of mental breakdown once Spencer told him that he would put him up if McCrae or GM won the PoV. Nothing he said or did in this episode made any sense whatsoever. I've always liked the guy, but he really came off looking like a complete buffoon tonight.

Andy continued to prove why he is by far the most deserving of the win. He was literally never even on Spencer's radar as far as being the replacement nominee. He also won the most important HoH of the season, guaranteeing a spot in the final three. Like I said before, if he makes it to the final two, it's in the bag.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

judd blew his entire season once he gave up during the pov comp. from that point forward, his game was over. you don't give up during comps in the final 5 and expect to stay in the house.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Yep Spencer/Andy are made for each other gamewise F2. Andy can argue how hard he played the game by lying yet never being a target and Spencer can show how Andy betrayed all the jurors and try and convince them to vote on emotion.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Judd definitely blew it. But his exit interview was one of the funniest ever!


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

I missed last night's ep. Was it a DE? I'm lost.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> I missed last night's ep. Was it a DE? I'm lost.


No DE, just one eviction. But there will be another tonight. And they will start the final HoH comp, which is usually a 3 part comp.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Yep, Judd blew a gasket, and it seems so out of character for him. He always to me came off as a happy go lucky guy.

I agree, I think Andy might win this, but don't underestimate GM. She's come on late, and might be able to get some support from the jury, especially if Andy's scheming can be proven. If Spencer wins, then, for me, this season is a total loss. Absolutely no game play and I guess he won a couple of competitions, and this last one REALLY didn't help him. McRae? While, he can argue that Amanda's game was his as well, it might be tough to get jury support if they think he rode coattails. On the other hand, we've seen Amanda be pretty persuasive, so I wouldn't put it past her to talk the jury into voting for McRae.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Judd proved why he didn't deserve to win. What a bonehead move. But, even though he didn't know, he would have gone anyway. Seems to be a nice guy but not a good BB player.
I actually liked how it turned out. I was hoping Mcrae would pull off the veto.

So,ow, Andy is HOH and will obviously put up Mcrae and GM. I'm rooting for Mcrae over the remaining houseguests. Hopefully he can pull off another veto.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> Judd definitely blew it. But his exit interview was one of the funniest ever!


That was funny! Even Julie seemed to really enjoy the interview.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

Sorry to veer off topic but since we are talking BB, I thought this was an amusing story about Mrs. Chen:

It was "secrets week" on The talk.



> She revealed that she had plastic surgery years ago to change the look of her eyes.


Before/After pic










http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2013/09/12/julie-chen-plastic-eye-surgery-less-chinese/2803049/


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Alfer said:


> Sorry to veer off topic but since we are talking BB, I thought this was an amusing story about Mrs. Chen:
> 
> It was "secrets week" on The talk.
> 
> ...


Wow! She looks completely different. I listened to her tell the whole story, and I found it very moving.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

She had more than her eyes done!


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> She had more than her eyes done!


Her nose jumps out at me way more than her eyes do...though I suppose that's just a commonly accept procedure these days.

...and never mind the plastic surgery - take a look at her from season 1.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

MonsterJoe said:


> Her nose jumps out at me way more than her eyes do...though I suppose that's just a commonly accept procedure these days.
> 
> ...and never mind the plastic surgery - take a look at her from season 1.


Yeah I have been going back and watching some old episodes. Julie has really changed over the years.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Based on those photos, I'd agree that she definitely had a nose job as well. I'm sure she's had a lot of stuff done since her eyes. Let's face it, that's just the way it is now in Hollywood. There is tremendous pressure on these people to stay young looking. At least Julie still looks normal, which is more than I can say for some people. Courtney Cox, for example, looks really weird and "plasticy" these days. Some people, like Meg Ryan, have even ruined their careers because they took it too far.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

gweempose said:


> Let's face it, that's just the way it is now in Hollywood.


at least julie was smart enough to avoid elissa's lip surgeon.


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## dirtypacman (Feb 3, 2004)

Very out of character for Judd, showing his emotions was not a bad thing... quitting veto, doing his speeches against Mcrea were both bad game moves. He showed he is not cut out for this game overall and can see why his departure a 2nd time was iminent. 

I always laugh at the changes of Julie over the years... she is quite beautiful overall but I also like calling her Chen-Bot because it seems there is a new version all the time. I think we may be on Version 4.3 or so.

Good for Andy winning HOH, I really don't like the guy but he put himself in a great position in the game. Once again I could care less who wins.

Ian was funny to see he has not changed a bit.


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## andyw715 (Jul 31, 2007)

Ment said:


> Yep Spencer/Andy are made for each other gamewise F2. Andy can argue how hard he played the game by lying yet never being a target and Spencer can show how Andy betrayed all the jurors and try and convince them to vote on emotion.


And for that reason is why Andy should win over Spencer.

If your only ammo is mentioning your opponent's gameplay (since you have none) then you don't deserve to win v


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> Based on those photos, I'd agree that she definitely had a nose job as well. I'm sure she's had a lot of stuff done since her eyes. Let's face it, that's just the way it is now in Hollywood. There is tremendous pressure on these people to stay young looking. At least Julie still looks normal, which is more than I can say for some people. Courtney Cox, for example, looks really weird and "plasticy" these days. Some people, like Meg Ryan, have even ruined their careers because they took it too far.


I hate how this sounds, but I wonder if she did it to look less Asian. She certainly looks less Asian now. Jun, BB4 (I think it's 4, might be 3) winner, called her out on it. She's Asian and she feels that Julie strayed from her Asian roots.


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

My wife thought that Judd was acting so over the top as a last ditch effort to be the "bigger target" that should stay in the house to shield the others. At the most, I think he might have kept it up for that reason, but I think at first it was all emotion.

I can't get behind the support for Andy. His methods are so repulsive to me - blatantly lying while yelling at Elissa that she lied, literally going straight from one conversation to telling the other side all about it, lamely throwing competitions...I mean, I know it is BB and some of that it par for the course, but he just seems to take it to another level. 

Spencer lying to Judd, saying not to worry, you're not the target...that scores a 4 out of 10 for lying.
Andy shouting at Elissa, saying she lied when in fact it was him...that's an 11 in my book.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I hate how this sounds, but I wonder if she did it to look less Asian. She certainly looks less Asian now. Jun, BB4 (I think it's 4, might be 3) winner, called her out on it. She's Asian and she feels that Julie strayed from her Asian roots.


You need to watch the video where she tells the whole story on "The Talk". It was very interesting. Scroll down past the article:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...hen-plastic-eye-surgery-less-chinese/2803049/

She definitely struggled with it, and felt as though she was betraying her heritage. Ultimately, she did it because she decided it would be best for her career. Since she has now risen to the top of her field, it's hard to argue with the results.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Anybody who gets work done is erasing some of their heritage to some extent.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

KRS said:


> I can't get behind the support for Andy. His methods are so repulsive to me - blatantly lying while yelling at Elissa that she lied, literally going straight from one conversation to telling the other side all about it, lamely throwing competitions...I mean, I know it is BB and some of that it par for the course, but he just seems to take it to another level.


I assume then that you are not a fan of Dan either. He would swear on his wedding ring, his marriage, and even the bible. He basically did whatever it took to convince others that he was telling the truth when, in fact, he was flat out lying to them. To me, it's all part of the game. It's almost impossible to make it to the end without lying to someone at some point. Why is one type of deception worse than any other? Andy is just using the skills he has to his advantage. If someone falls for his deception, they got outplayed. Plain and simple.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

KRS said:


> My wife thought that Judd was acting so over the top as a last ditch effort to be the "bigger target" that should stay in the house to shield the others. At the most, I think he might have kept it up for that reason, but I think at first it was all emotion.
> 
> I can't get behind the support for Andy. His methods are so repulsive to me - blatantly lying while yelling at Elissa that she lied, literally going straight from one conversation to telling the other side all about it, lamely throwing competitions...I mean, I know it is BB and some of that it par for the course, but he just seems to take it to another level.
> 
> ...


I'm not rooting for Andy, but strictly on game play alone, he deserves to win. And now he's won a crucial HoH too. I certainly don't like his style of play and have mentioned that a lot in the BB threads, but, for this season, it's probably the smartest way to win. With smarter players, it never would have worked. He'd have been a perfect target to backdoor.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> You need to watch the video where she tells the whole story on "The Talk". It was very interesting. Scroll down past the article:
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...hen-plastic-eye-surgery-less-chinese/2803049/
> 
> She definitely struggled with it, and felt as though she was betraying her heritage. Ultimately, she did it because she decided it would be best for her career. Since she has now risen to the top of her field, it's hard to argue with the results.


I'm not a huge fan of elective cosmetic surgery, but in some respects I guess it's not any worse than make up to try and beautify a person. It certainly worked in her case. For others, it makes them look freakish. I guess if you have enough money, and can hire the best surgeons, it should work out for you.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> I assume then that you are not a fan of Dan either. He would swear on his wedding ring, his marriage, and even the bible. He basically did whatever it took to convince others that he was telling the truth when, in fact, he was flat out lying to them. To me, it's all part of the game. It's almost impossible to make it to the end without lying to someone at some point. Why is one type of deception worse than any other? Andy is just using the skills he has to his advantage. If someone falls for his deception, they got outplayed. Plain and simple.


I think it's a different sort of game. Andy is a snitch. The major part of Andy's game was telling his current alliance what the other side was planning. He wasn't lying at that point in the game as much as spying. Dan just lied and told whoever, allies and enemies what they wanted to hear. I "liked" Dan's game much better, because throughout the game he made game moves. Andy basically floated from alliance to alliance by gaining trust and snitching. It's more subtle. Only NOW when he HAS to play a more upfront game did he have to really LIE.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I think it's a different sort of game. Andy is a snitch. The major part of Andy's game was telling his current alliance what the other side was planning. He wasn't lying at that point in the game as much as spying. Dan just lied and told whoever, allies and enemies what they wanted to hear. I "liked" Dan's game much better, because throughout the game he made game moves. Andy basically floated from alliance to alliance by gaining trust and snitching. It's more subtle. Only NOW when he HAS to play a more upfront game did he have to really LIE.


I agree that Andy's game is way different than Dan's. I also concur that Dan was much more fun to watch. I certainly wasn't trying to indicate that I thought Andy was in the same league in terms of strategy or overall gameplay. I was simply saying that Andy's strategy is a legitimate one, and shouldn't automatically be discounted simply because it is manipulative. I was also implying that it would be somewhat hypocritical to applaud Dan's gameplay, while criticizing Andy for his.


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## Frylock (Feb 13, 2002)

My problem with Andy is that he feels whiney and is still a floater. He can claim he played a good game like Dan, but I think Dan had control of the game the whole time. Andy was used and floated from side to side until the two sides eventually kicked one another out. It wasn't until the Final 6 that he really started to make bigger moved, IMO.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> I agree that Andy's game is way different than Dan's. I also concur that Dan was much more fun to watch. I certainly wasn't trying to indicate that I thought Andy was in the same league in terms of strategy or overall gameplay. I was simply saying that Andy's strategy is a legitimate one, and shouldn't automatically be discounted simply because it is manipulative. I was also implying that it would be somewhat hypocritical to applaud Dan's gameplay, while criticizing Andy for his.


I totally agree. You can tell this is what he planned to do by his DR interviews. He's one of the few in the house who actually HAS a plan. That's why I think he deserves to win. I just won't be rooting for him.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Frylock said:


> My problem with Andy is that he feels whiney and is still a floater. He can claim he played a good game like Dan, but I think Dan had control of the game the whole time. Andy was used and floated from side to side until the two sides eventually kicked one another out. It wasn't until the Final 6 that he really started to make bigger moved, IMO.


All true, except Andy actually PLANNED to do this. It's his strategy. He's said it over and over in the DR. He wanted to be everyone's friend until he just couldn't do it anymore. He's at that point now, which is why he had to win HoH.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

gweempose said:


> I assume then that you are not a fan of Dan either. He would swear on his wedding ring, his marriage, and even the bible. He basically did whatever it took to convince others that he was telling the truth when, in fact, he was flat out lying to them. To me, it's all part of the game. It's almost impossible to make it to the end without lying to someone at some point. Why is one type of deception worse than any other? Andy is just using the skills he has to his advantage. If someone falls for his deception, they got outplayed. Plain and simple.


Well it didn't work for Dan. That is the behavior that cost him the game.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Frylock said:


> My problem with Andy is that he feels whiney and is still a floater. He can claim he played a good game like Dan, but I think Dan had control of the game the whole time. Andy was used and floated from side to side until the two sides eventually kicked one another out. It wasn't until the Final 6 that he really started to make bigger moved, IMO.


It's very hard to root for Andy. His constant whining and crying may have got him far in the game, but they also make him very annoying from the viewer's perspective. At this point, I'm rooting for McCrae. He's not only the underdog with the whole house against him, but I also find him to be the least offensive person left in the house.


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## mdougie (Mar 9, 2009)

gweempose said:


> It's very hard to root for Andy. His constant whining and crying may have got him far in the game, but they also make him very annoying from the viewer's perspective. At this point, I'm rooting for McCrae. He's not only the underdog with the whole house against him, but I also find him to be the least offensive person left in the house.


Ian is to Dan what McRae is to Andy.

Emotionally likable. Unfortunately for McRae Amanda isn't Brittany in the Jury house.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> ...Andy actually PLANNED to do this. It's his strategy. He's said it over and over in the DR. He wanted to be everyone's friend until he just couldn't do it anymore.


this, 100%. he won is first hoh and pov the week helen left, and has only been on the block once (following a pov comp).

great game play, but i still can't stand him - kinda like my love/hate opinion of dan after last season.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mdougie said:


> Well it didn't work for Dan. That is the behavior that cost him the game.


He did win the first time around, but he wasn't as dastardly the first time around.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> I agree, I think Andy might win this, but don't underestimate GM. She's come on late, and might be able to get some support from the jury, especially if Andy's scheming can be proven. If Spencer wins, then, for me, this season is a total loss. Absolutely no game play and I guess he won a couple of competitions, and this last one REALLY didn't help him. McRae? While, he can argue that Amanda's game was his as well, it might be tough to get jury support if they think he rode coattails. On the other hand, we've seen Amanda be pretty persuasive, so I wouldn't put it past her to talk the jury into voting for McRae.


I think McCrae would deserve to win over GM. They both did coattail ridding and were aligned with someone who was more dominant (Aaryn and Amanda). But, while doing so McCrae was more likable and has won HOH or Veto each of the last 3 rounds (and if he makes it to the end he gets extra points for surviving against the 4 Exterminators...which would probably take another Veto or HOH win).


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

KRS said:


> I can't get behind the support for Andy. His methods are so repulsive to me - blatantly lying while yelling at Elissa that she lied, literally going straight from one conversation to telling the other side all about it, lamely throwing competitions...I mean, I know it is BB and some of that it par for the course, but he just seems to take it to another level.
> 
> Spencer lying to Judd, saying not to worry, you're not the target...that scores a 4 out of 10 for lying.
> Andy shouting at Elissa, saying she lied when in fact it was him...that's an 11 in my book.


Great point. While I don't have a problem with lying in the game, there are different ways to do it. Dan did it brilliantly last year because he still came off as likeable in the end. Andy in his yelling during the last Double Eviction, lied in a way that made him look like an ass. Effective and part of the game, yes...but more distasteful in my opinion.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

KRS said:


> My wife thought that Judd was acting so over the top as a last ditch effort to be the "bigger target" that should stay in the house to shield the others.


He even told McCrae in advance that he would do that. But, he's also always begging the DR for his anxiety medication.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> I think McCrae would deserve to win over GM. They both did coattail ridding and were aligned with someone who was more dominant (Aaryn and Amanda). But, while doing so McCrae was more likable and has won HOH or Veto each of the last 3 rounds (and if he makes it to the end he gets extra points for surviving against the 4 Exterminators...which would probably take another Veto or HOH win).


I just don't know how being aligned with Amanda is going to hurt him with the jury.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Dnamertz said:


> Great point. While I don't have a problem with lying in the game, there are different ways to do it. Dan did it brilliantly last year because he still came off as likeable in the end. Andy in his yelling during the last Double Eviction, lied in a way that made him look like an ass. Effective and part of the game, yes...but more distasteful in my opinion.


Dan likable? Not last year. The posts here killed him and the jury members couldn't vote for him because of his actions. The first time Dan played though, totally likable, while stabbing everyone in the back.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> Dan likable? Not last year. The posts here killed him and the jury members couldn't vote for him because of his actions. The first time Dan played though, totally likable, while stabbing everyone in the back.


They didn't like how he lied, but his lies never came off the way Andy's did the other night. Dan did it with a smile


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> On the other hand, we've seen Amanda be pretty persuasive, so I wouldn't put it past her to talk the jury into voting for McRae.


Really? I can't see Amanda talking anyone on the jury into drinking a glass of water if they were dying of thirst.



gweempose said:


> Andy is just using the skills he has to his advantage. If someone falls for his deception, they got outplayed. Plain and simple.


It's the sobbing that annoys me. It was funny when Judd saw his message from Andy and he was crying all over the place, he laughed. Then he said he was laughing at something else. Sure.

I wonder what Judd put in McCrae's bible? Which made me wonder--do they have pen and paper? Are they allowed to take notes and study for memory challenges like the last one? I've never watched anything but the episodes, but I thought someone said they aren't allowed to write anything down.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Steveknj said:


> Dan likable? Not last year. The posts here killed him and the jury members couldn't vote for him because of his actions.


yeah, dan's game completely fell apart during jury interviews last year - one big reason he lost. he still would have had an uphill climb against ian, but he came across as a jerk during the final and gave empty answers (really the same answer over and over), and that sealed his fate.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

NorthAlabama said:


> this, 100%. he won is first hoh and pov the week helen left, and has only been on the block once (following a pov comp).
> 
> great game play, but i still can't stand him - kinda like my love/hate opinion of dan after last season.


Can't stand the ratfink either but he is REALLY good at what he does. The ability to insert oneself into conversations and situations and avoid the 'what is he doing here' thoughts by everyone else is really a wonder to watch. Imagine Elissa just popping into rooms in order to stop people talking their game and to gain info for yourself, they'd just stare at her it'd be so obvious.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> It was funny when Judd saw his message from Andy and he was crying all over the place, he laughed. Then he said he was laughing at something else. Sure.


His answer to Julie was that he'd "never seen a guy cry so much." How is that something else?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

NorthAlabama said:


> yeah, dan's game completely fell apart during jury interviews last year - one big reason he lost. he still would have had an uphill climb against ian, but he came across as a jerk during the final and gave empty answers (really the same answer over and over), and that sealed his fate.


The jury questions were meaningless. The winner had been determined, and it wasn't going to be Dan no matter who he was up against and no matter what answers he gave. Dan had to play a better game and a bloodier game than he did his first time around just to get into the finals.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Fool Me Twice said:


> The jury questions were meaningless. The winner had been determined, and it wasn't going to be Dan no matter who he was up against and no matter what answers he gave. Dan had to play a better game and a bloodier game than he did his first time around just to get into the finals.


i'm sure you're right from the jury's perspective, but while watching, i expected he would find a way to charm a few into voting for him, even after all the bloodshed.

i didn't want him to win a second time over ian, but was shocked that he brought nothing to the final to answer their questions. i always figured he'd find a way to pull himself a little closer - i gave him too much credit. maybe i was misted, too.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I wish they would change it back to the old format and not do the jury questions on finale night. It's all too rushed. The final jury member has no idea what's going on. And all the jury members now read pre-printed questions given to them by production.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I wish they would change it back to the old format and not do the jury questions on finale night. It's all too rushed. The final jury member has no idea what's going on. And all the jury members now read pre-printed questions given to them by production.


your wish may come true - bb has been renewed for season 16, and there are rumors ep allison grodner has mutually agreed to part ways with the show, along with endemol chairman/ceo david goldberg stepping down in december. not meaning to suggest that any of these are related...


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Heads up east coasters...football on CBS. But tonight's the episode can be seen on 10/55 Cablevision.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> The jury questions were meaningless. The winner had been determined, and it wasn't going to be Dan no matter who he was up against and no matter what answers he gave. Dan had to play a better game and a bloodier game than he did his first time around just to get into the finals.


Exactly. Despite how brilliant some of Dan's moves were, it's almost impossible to win at the end when you've burned so many bridges. The same thing happened to Russel on Survivor.


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

gossamer88 said:


> Heads up east coasters...football on CBS. But tonight's the episode can be seen on 10/55 Cablevision.


Not on my local affiliate. You sure it's CBS and not local?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I should have been more specific. Northeast. Jets vs Patriots.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

gweempose said:


> Exactly. Despite how brilliant some of Dan's moves were, it's almost impossible to win at the end when you've burned so many bridges. The same thing happened to Russel on Survivor.


That's the catch 22 of these games. The strategy and game play that is considered good is also what causes many people on the jury to be bitter. It all comes down to how the jury decides to vote. Do they consider it a game and give people credit for successful betrayal and strategic moves, or are they bitter because those moves prevented them from winning the money?

The better you are strategically, the more people want to vote you out. On the flip side, the less of a threat you are (like Spencer) the more people will ignore you and take you to the end. Then you have juror members complaining that a floater is in the finals and doesn't deserve to be there, but that person is there because those jury members never evicted them.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

NorthAlabama said:


> your wish may come true - bb has been renewed for season 16, and there are rumors ep allison grodner has mutually agreed to part ways with the show, along with endemol chairman/ceo david goldberg stepping down in december. not meaning to suggest that any of these are related...


Maybe they will finally wise up and broadcast in HD


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Maybe they will finally wise up and broadcast in HD


It amazes me that this show is still shot in SD. I always assumed it's because they didn't want to spend the money to upgrade all the cameras.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> It amazes me that this show is still shot in SD. I always assumed it's because they didn't want to spend the money to upgrade all the cameras.


Someone here posted that HD is just too difficult to edit in the short time frame allotted for editing. I'm not sure I buy that. It certainly cannot be the equipment anymore unless they are being SUPER cheap. Heck, we have 1080P cameras on our smartphones these days!!


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