# Tivo HD Pixelation Troubleshooting



## Chimpware

Just wanted to start a thread with various troubleshooting measures that have been tested;

1. Manually rebooted - No Difference.
2. Upgraded connection cable between wall outlet to Tivo to RG6 from RG59 - No Difference.
3. Cooled system down from 48 C to 43 C using external fan - No Difference.
4. Changed from Component to HDMI Connection - No Difference, but resolution switching is more smooth on my Sony VBR2.

Additional planned testing:
1. Remove all other connections to my cable line including modem.
2. Power conditioning maybe.

Any other thoughts on what I could try?

EDITED ON 9/6/07: It appears that the issues experience by many users who had SA SCards has been resolved with the 8.17c update. I have downloaded the update and my wife tested (I am traveling and cannot test myself) and during 15 ninutes of viewing she saw no pixelation. Others have tested also and have seen drastic improvement.

EDITED ON 11/28/07:FIOS Pixelation Fix Update
FIOS Pixelation Fix


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## GoHokies!

Chimpware said:


> Any other thoughts on what I could try?


Read the posing guidelines and stop creating duplicate threads on the same topic, for starters.

I've asked Mike Lang (one of the moderators) if we could have a sticky thread to contain all of the discussion on this topic to one place. This will help to keep clutter down in the forum, and allow people having this problem to have one place to go to see what the latest news is with respect to the problem getting fixed.

For those unfamiliar with the problem, this "pixelation" problem occurs on all digital channels, although the amount and frequency seem to vary. Some reports tied the problem seems to be tied to folks with 2 Scientific Atlantia S- cards, although it seems that the problem is happening to some folks without SA cards. Tivo has issued one software update already that reportedly cleared up the problem for some folks, but not all of them. A better description of the problem, complete with pictures, is available here at MegaZone's site.


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## Chimpware

GoHokies! said:


> Read the posing guidelines and stop creating duplicate threads on the same topic, for starters.


Well that's helpful you should apply for a job at Tivo Tech Support.

I started 3 threads;

1. To warn potential purchasers about issues with Tivo HD before they spend their money.
2. To discuss my experience with Tivo Tech. Support.
3. This thread to discuss trouble shooting the pixelation issue.

Do the threads get hijacked and people start other discussions? Possibly, but these are 3 separate topics.


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## Flot

I am seeing pixelation on my Tivo HD in both HD channels and also on the occasional menu screen.

I am using Component Video 1080i.

As much as I hated my motorola box, I rarely if ever noticed HD artifacts. In 3 hours of playing with the HD Tivo I am already annoyed by them. 

The only thing in Tivo's favor right now is that my cable cards are not completely activated so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that maybe the box is off running some process in the background to try to authorize them. But if this continues, the box is going back. I did get the software update with no apparent change.


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## thepcdoc

hate to kill your hopes but it is not the CCs. I have had the problem since I received my unit. The update did fix the the 2nd slot issue. However I have persistent pixelation every 5 minutes or so. I even once in a while get it on a menu screen as well. It is definitely an issue with the Tivo, whether it is Hardware or Software is another issue.


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## GoHokies!

Chimpware said:


> Do the threads get hijacked and people start other discussions? Possibly, but these are 3 separate topics.


Yes, like you hijacked the Cable Card self install thread to ***** about your issues too.

They all center about the same topic. Stop polluting the forums with threads about the same thing, especially in the light of the fact that you're not the only one creating threads about the topic.


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## Chimpware

GoHokies! said:


> Yes, like you hijacked the Cable Card self install thread to ***** about your issues too.
> 
> They all center about the same topic. Stop polluting the forums with threads about the same thing, especially in the light of the fact that you're not the only one creating threads about the topic.


Uh they are not the same topic...

You can stop trolling now.


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## AbMagFab

Back on track...

This isn't a CC issue. I have 6 CC's in my house now (4 on 2 S3's, and 2 on the Tivo HD).

The S3's are fine.

I plugged the TivoHD into the same cable, and I get pixellation (on both CC's, for what it's worth). I played with adding and removing splitter (-7db, -4db, etc.) to see what happened. It definitely changed the picture pixellation. So I'm thinking the TivoHD has a more sensitive tuner than the S3?

I also seem to remember these same issues plaguing the S3 for a little bit. And that they released a couple of upgrades focused on the pixelation?

Anyway, in addition to the channel pixellation, I see periodic menu pixelation, which is very new. I'm on component on my TivoHD, and HDMI on my S3. I'll probably switch to HDMI on the TivoHD to see if it makes any difference.

I'm hoping a software update for the TivoHD fixes much of this, just like it did (I think?) for the S3.


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## aaronwt

thepcdoc said:


> hate to kill your hopes but it is not the CCs. I have had the problem since I received my unit. The update did fix the the 2nd slot issue. However I have persistent pixelation every 5 minutes or so. I even once in a while get it on a menu screen as well. It is definitely an issue with the Tivo, whether it is Hardware or Software is another issue.


I haven't seen any problem like that with mine. I don't have any cablecards. The only problem I notice with mine is the audio dropping out when scrolling through the guide. Otherwise it seems just as responsive as my Series3 boxes so far. I should have over 60 recorded hours of HD on the TiVoHD tonight. I'll see if that makes any difference.
I downloaded 7 Amazon unbox shows too. It worked the same as my Sereis 3 boxes.


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## ZeoTiVo

Chimpware said:


> Uh they are not the same topic...
> 
> You can stop trolling now.


well Truly it has all been related to pixellation issues and cable cards. the customer service stuff was just an annoying side trip and not new news here at all. So really you are starting to get the glow of yet another thread vs good solid new information threads.

which is not exactly right since you are trying to consolidate the good info and best practices in your posts but that consolidation gets lost when it goes into multiple threads.

from the first page it just looks like a bunch of threads on the same stuff, as others are making these same kind of threads as well. This happened with the S3 launch as well and a lot of good info got lost in many smaller threads vs one thread consolidated. The recent SDV issues is a good example of this with the new sticky SDV thread helping to keep all the SDV info in one place now versus scrolling off to page 2 or 3 of the thread listings under multiple mini threads


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## thepcdoc

AbMagFab said:


> Back on track...
> 
> This isn't a CC issue. I have 6 CC's in my house now (4 on 2 S3's, and 2 on the Tivo HD).
> 
> The S3's are fine.
> 
> I plugged the TivoHD into the same cable, and I get pixellation (on both CC's, for what it's worth). I played with adding and removing splitter (-7db, -4db, etc.) to see what happened. It definitely changed the picture pixellation. So I'm thinking the TivoHD has a more sensitive tuner than the S3?
> 
> I also seem to remember these same issues plaguing the S3 for a little bit. And that they released a couple of upgrades focused on the pixelation?
> 
> Anyway, in addition to the channel pixellation, I see periodic menu pixelation, which is very new. I'm on component on my TivoHD, and HDMI on my S3. I'll probably switch to HDMI on the TivoHD to see if it makes any difference.
> 
> I'm hoping a software update for the TivoHD fixes much of this, just like it did (I think?) for the S3.


Which do you like better the S3 or the HD? If you are not getting any pixelation I just might exchange my unit up to an S3 to remove the pixelation crap. It is driving me up the wall.


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## AbMagFab

thepcdoc said:


> Which do you like better the S3 or the HD? If you are not getting any pixelation I just might exchange my unit up to an S3 to remove the pixelation crap. It is driving me up the wall.


They are pretty much identical. I don't care about the front display (although it's pretty), and the THX certification, which is nice, I'm not sure has any real effect on the sound quality (as it's just a certification).

Aside from the pixelation, I can't imagine anyone buying a S3 any more. Unless the price drops to $400 again for the S3.

Also, I have to believe a software update will fix this, as a I seem to remember similar issues with the S3 at launch.

However, if I could get a S3 at a similar price, and trade the TivoHD for it, I would do it (only because the S3 is a year more proven, and a couple of software updates deeper).


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## AbMagFab

aaronwt said:


> I downloaded 7 Amazon unbox shows too. It worked the same as my Sereis 3 boxes.


Not totally true - the TivoHD has a different menu in "Find Programs" where you can directly browse Amazon Unbox, where the S3 requires you to go through Universal Swivel Search, or do it from a PC.


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## ZeoTiVo

AbMagFab said:


> Also, I have to believe a software update will fix this, as a I seem to remember similar issues with the S3 at launch.
> 
> However, if I could get a S3 at a similar price, and trade the TivoHD for it, I would do it (only because the S3 is a year more proven, and a couple of software updates deeper).


yes the S3 went through the same thing and updates fixed things up. Oddly though there is a mixed bag here of the S3 has more mature drivers but the TiVo HD has some of the more recent menus, such as the TiVocast giving a direct link to downloading UNBOX.

I think that by the end of the year this will all be moot though as the two converge on code base and the TiVoHd gets driver updates.

The one remaining differnce may be ability to get a lifetime transfer on the S3


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## megazone

AbMagFab said:


> Not totally true - the TivoHD has a different menu in "Find Programs" where you can directly browse Amazon Unbox, where the S3 requires you to go through Universal Swivel Search, or do it from a PC.


The menus on the S3 and TiVo HD are identical. If you don't have Download TV & Movies in Find Programs on your S3, something is wrong - that used to be called 'TiVoCast' and that's where the Amazon Unbox menu is.

And they both have Swivel Search as well.


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## Chimpware

OK, just got a call back from Dave at Tivo Tech. Support, supposedly the level that acts as go between for customers and engineering, as my issue regarding pixelation was escalated to engineering.

Here is whats I was told:

1. 8.17b was meant to fix slot 2 issues as well as a large portion of people's issues related to pixelation. When I told him this was not the case from what I have been reading on the TivoCommunity forum, he said he also is having the same issue on his personal Tivo HD, but views it as more of an annoyance than a big issue. I told him that in my opinion what is the point of having an HD device that has poor picture quality, when you could have an SD device with no pixelation, or a cable supplied box that works correctly? To this he agreed.

2. He claimed they are working on a further update aimed at repairing this issue. When I asked what the ETA was he said he did not have one, but expected it to be in the next month or 2. When I told him most of us were working on a 30 day return window, he said he would pass that along, but was not hopeful.

So it looks like from what I was told today many of us will be returning our Tivo HD units in the next few week.


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## lessd

Chimpware said:


> OK, just got a call back from Dave at Tivo Tech. Support, supposedly the level that acts as go between for customers and engineering, as my issue regarding pixelation was escalated to engineering.
> 
> Here is whats I was told:
> 
> 1. 8.17b was meant to fix slot 2 issues as well as a large portion of people's issues related to pixelation. When I told him this was not the case from what I have been reading on the TivoCommunity forum, he said he also is having the same issue on his personal Tivo HD, but views it as more of an annoyance than a big issue. I told him that in my opinion what is the point of having an HD device that has poor picture quality, when you could have an SD device with no pixelation, or a cable supplied box that works correctly? To this he agreed.
> 
> 2. He claimed they are working on a further update aimed at repairing this issue. When I asked what the ETA was he said he did not have one, but expected it to be in the next month or 2. When I told him most of us were working on a 30 day return window, he said he would pass that along, but was not hopeful.
> 
> So it looks like from what I was told today many of us will be returning our Tivo HD units in the next few week.


Is anybody getting this pixelation problem when not using CC ? I have set up two of these 652 TiVos (for friends) and checked the free HD channels and have observed no problems of pixelation or anything else. We are on Comcast Hartford CT.


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## Globular

They better get this fixed, and fast. I can see the headlines all over Engadget, Gizmodo, Slashdot, etc. "Slew of new TiVo HD units returned due to poor picture quality."

I'm sorry, I'm a HUGE TiVo fan, but this product release is turning into a disaster! Unless someone from TiVo responds here quickly with assurances that all of us experiencing the problems will be taken care of, and soon, I can't imagine what the backlash will be. I'm very upset at having to act as a beta tester for a inferior product!!

I need an official response telling me the issue will be fixed ASAP.


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## Phantom Gremlin

lessd said:


> Is anybody getting this pixelation problem when not using CC ? I have set up two of these 652 TiVos (for friends) and checked the free HD channels and have observed no problems of pixelation or anything else. We are on Comcast Hartford CT.


I get the pixelation without cablecards. I am using QAM not OTA. I also see pixelation even in the menu screens. My signal strength consistently reads high 90's or 100.

If you're not seeing the pixelation, you're not watching carefully enough for a long enough time. The interval between events is several minutes and the pixelation only lasts for a few frames. It usually goes away when I hit instant replay. Sometimes it doesn't go away but that just may be bad MPEG from somewhere upstream.


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## mike_camden

I've seen it in the menus and on some HD programming. In my case, it has been several minutes between pixelations (the shortest time frame I observed was about 5 minutes on one of the Discovery shark shows last night). I've not watched anything recorded yet to see if it's there. 

I am using two Motorola s-cards with Comcast for my TivoHD.


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## GoldenTiger

Chimpware said:


> OK, just got a call back from Dave at Tivo Tech. Support, supposedly the level that acts as go between for customers and engineering, as my issue regarding pixelation was escalated to engineering.
> 
> Here is whats I was told:
> 
> 1. 8.17b was meant to fix slot 2 issues as well as a large portion of people's issues related to pixelation. When I told him this was not the case from what I have been reading on the TivoCommunity forum, he said he also is having the same issue on his personal Tivo HD, but views it as more of an annoyance than a big issue. I told him that in my opinion what is the point of having an HD device that has poor picture quality, when you could have an SD device with no pixelation, or a cable supplied box that works correctly? To this he agreed.
> 
> 2. He claimed they are working on a further update aimed at repairing this issue. When I asked what the ETA was he said he did not have one, but expected it to be in the next month or 2. When I told him most of us were working on a 30 day return window, he said he would pass that along, but was not hopeful.
> 
> So it looks like from what I was told today many of us will be returning our Tivo HD units in the next few week.


Wow, what a disaster this launch is turning into... I will be returning two Tivo HD's within the return window if this isn't fixed by then. It is a HUGE issue to me, I have it happening twice a minute sometimes, and always 12+ times in any 10 minute window. It is infuriating while watching, and is not the kind of picture quality I want from this kind of expensive device. Clock's ticking, TiVo... I'm a huge TiVo fan, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $300 for the 3-year subscription and $260-300 each of my 2 units for a far inferior unit quality-wise to a rentable cable box other than the software menus.


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## jfh3

lessd said:


> Is anybody getting this pixelation problem when not using CC ? I have set up two of these 652 TiVos (for friends) and checked the free HD channels and have observed no problems of pixelation or anything else. We are on Comcast Hartford CT.


Yes, I've seen this on a THD w/o CCs on both the a and b s/w revisions.


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## jfh3

GoldenTiger said:


> Wow, what a disaster this launch is turning into... I will be returning two Tivo HD's within the return window if this isn't fixed by then.


Disaster? I think that's a little dramatic.

If everyone who has this problem calls in and gets a case number, we'll all be better off.

I have two new THD boxes - I have no doubt that Tivo will fix this problem, so much so that I'm using a LGC to put lifetime on one box and upgrading its' hard drive.

From the reports I've read, this seems like software, not hardware, so I see no need to panic and jump ship.


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## Ishma

jfh3 said:


> Disaster? I think that's a little dramatic.


I agree. Give TiVo a chance to truly fix the issue. I would imagine there are a lot of people working on it now.

I might recommend holding off a few weeks but panicking now?


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## Phantom Gremlin

jfh3 said:


> From the reports I've read, this seems like software, not hardware, so I see no need to panic and jump ship.


Unless you have read much more detailed information than has been posted here, your statement is unsupported.

Please link to the "reports" that make clear this is software.

IMO it could very well be hardware glitches that are causing this. And yes, at various points in my career I've been paid to write software and to design ASICs and to design systems.


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## ChrisPA

lessd said:


> Is anybody getting this pixelation problem when not using CC ? I have set up two of these 652 TiVos (for friends) and checked the free HD channels and have observed no problems of pixelation or anything else. We are on Comcast Hartford CT.


Yes, I had the pixelation problem both before and after the software upgrade using direct cable connection (no cable cards).

Since then, cablecards have been installed, with the same pixelation problem.

Regarding whether this is a "disaster" or not, I do think its extremely important they address this in some way soon. If things haven't been fixed - or there hasn't been an announcement from Tivo that they are sure things will be fixed - it will be a tough call as to whether or not to return the box when 30 days is up. Its a distracting problem that none of the rental units have...


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## lrhorer

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I get the pixelation without cablecards. I am using QAM not OTA. I also see pixelation even in the menu screens. My signal strength consistently reads high 90's or 100.


Then you have something else wrong. The menus are created internally to the TiVo and are not compressed and I do not believe they are encrypted. They do not pass through the Cable Cards or the Tuner, at all. Which TiVo output are you using?



Phantom Gremlin said:


> If you're not seeing the pixelation, you're not watching carefully enough for a long enough time.


You don't know that. He may not be seeing any whatsoever. Typically speaking, I see pixelization at roughly the same rate on my Series III units as the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVR I rented from the CATV company. It's very subjective, and very intermittent, however. I have about 150 HD movies on one of my Series III units, and some of the movies haven't a single pixelization in the entire movie. Zathura only had two that I recall, and they were very minor. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire have none at all. Top Gun, on the other hand has so many and such bad ones that it is virtually unwatchable. I'm waiting for it to come on again so I can replace the copy I have. On the other hand, when I had the 8300, it was no better. One episode of NCIS was so broken up I couldn't see what was going on, and it finally locked up the SA 8300 DVR.

Qualitatively I would say all three devices tend to have a drop-out about every 30 - 45 minutes on average. Sometimes it's much worse, and sometimes it's considerably better.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> The interval between events is several minutes and the pixelation only lasts for a few frames. It usually goes away when I hit instant replay. Sometimes it doesn't go away but that just may be bad MPEG from somewhere upstream.


If it goes away upon replay, then the signal was fine all the way through the Cable Card. A replay comes from the hard drive, and the hard drive lies completely beyond the CC circuitry. If it is good on the hard drive, then your pixelization is neither from the cable company, the CableCard, nor the tuner. Either the TV or the TiVo has an internal problem, or you are losing bytes in the transmisssion cable. Are you using HDMI or component video? You might try re-seating or replacing the cable between the TiVo and the TV. I've never noticed any streams fail between the DVR and the TV, but then I haven't tried rewind every time I get a pixelization, either.


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## lrhorer

Chimpware said:


> When I told him this was not the case from what I have been reading on the TivoCommunity forum, he said he also is having the same issue on his personal Tivo HD, but views it as more of an annoyance than a big issue.


Well, I wouldn't agree with that. One cannot expect broadcast video to ever be 100% perfect, but at some level any persistent issue is going to become unnaceptable in whole or in part. Certainly if all my recordings were as bad as the recording of Top Gun which I mentioned in the previous message, I would be very upset. One or two very brief pixelization events an hour, however, is not enough to consider more than a minor annoyance.



Chimpware said:


> I told him that in my opinion what is the point of having an HD device that has poor picture quality, when you could have an SD device with no pixelation, or a cable supplied box that works correctly? To this he agreed.


Define "poor quality". Many of the SD channels on my cable feed are downright horrible. They are snowy, grainy, and frequently have venetian blind or herringbone beats. Indeed, even though many of the SD channels have really great movies on them, since I have moved to HD I usually can't bear to watch them.



Chimpware said:


> 2. He claimed they are working on a further update aimed at repairing this issue. When I asked what the ETA was he said he did not have one, but expected it to be in the next month or 2.


Unfortunately, that is probably a lie. First of all, until the signal leaves the CableCard, there isn't really anything the TiVo can do to it - certainly not in software. The encrypted digital stream is sent without any modification directly from the receiver (which is a shielded monoloithic outboard device - not properly speaking part of the TiVo) directly to the CableCard where it is de-encrypted and then re-encrypted to be sent to the DVR. All this is rigidly controlled by Cable Labs specifications, and a Cable Labs certification warrantees this system meets specifications which will allow the CATV provider to deliver an acceptable signal to the device. If there is a systemic problem (other than a bad unit, of course) which prevents the source video from being reproduced in encrypted form at the receiver interface, and the receiver is certified by Cable Labs, then it is the CATV company's responsibility to fix the issue, not the device manufacturer (in this case TiVo). The CATV company must prove the device in question is not meeting Cable Labs specs. Otherwise, it's their problem, period. That is the law, per FCC regulations and CableLabs specifications, who also certifies the equipment used by the CATV company.

If the problem is beyond the point where the CableCard encrypts the data, or if the device is not meeting CableLabs specs, then it is the responsibility of the device manufacturer to fix things. If this is the case, then it is also possible a software fix could affect the situation. With the exception of a post just previous to this one, I have seen no firm evidence either the TiVoHD nor the Series II are the source of the problem.


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## lrhorer

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Unless you have read much more detailed information than has been posted here, your statement is unsupported.
> 
> Please link to the "reports" that make clear this is software.
> 
> IMO it could very well be hardware glitches that are causing this. And yes, at various points in my career I've been paid to write software and to design ASICs and to design systems.


Well, first of all, there are several places along the way which could be the cause of pixelization. The CATV plant is the most likely, but at least one poster detailed issues which are clearly not caused by the CATV plant. There are only really two places in the stream where the TiVo might cause issues with it at the software level, and it's unlikely even at those junctures. What is highly likely is there are two or three (or more) different problems being encountered, here. It is also very likely all or at least most are hardware related - the slot 2 issues perhaps being an exception.

I have a real suggestion. The source codes for the 8.1 software have been posted. I suggest someone point to me (and TiVo) where they think this code is faulty.


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## Chimpware

lrhorer said:


> Well, first of all, there are several places along the way which could be the cause of pixelization. The CATV plant is the most likely, but at least one poster detailed issues which are clearly not caused by the CATV plant. There are only really two places in the stream where the TiVo might cause issues with it at the software level, and it's unlikely even at those junctures. What is highly likely is there are two or three (or more) different problems being encountered, here. It is also very likely all or at least most are hardware related - the slot 2 issues perhaps being an exception.
> 
> I have a real suggestion. The source codes for the 8.1 software have been posted. I suggest someone point to me (and TiVo) where they think this code is faulty.


OK, top be honest I don't care where the problem lies, and it should not be mine to solve. The fact of the matter is that I as well as many others who have posted will be returning our Tivo HD units (2 in my case) if this issue is not remedied within the next 2 or 3 weeks.

Posting that someone should sort through their code to find the issues is assinine as well as many of your other ridiculous comments such as pointing out that analog SD video can be grainy and therefore it makes a pixelated HD pictures from a Tivo HD acceptable.

I have a better suggestion for you; if you have something constructive in terms of troubleshooting you can add that can help remedy the situation I as well as many others are having please let us know.


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## lrhorer

Chimpware said:


> Just wanted to start a thread with various troubleshooting measures that have been tested;
> 
> 1. Manually rebooted - No Difference.
> 2. Upgraded connection cable between wall outlet to Tivo to RG6 from RG59 - No Difference.
> 3. Cooled system down from 48 C to 43 C using external fan - No Difference.
> 4. Changed from Component to HDMI Connection - No Difference, but resolution switching is more smooth on my Sony VBR2.
> 
> Additional planned testing:
> 1. Remove all other connections to my cable line including modem.
> 2. Power conditioning maybe.
> 
> Any other thoughts on what I could try?


Well, those are all easy things to do, so I can't say it was foolish to try them, but the chances any of them would affect any given problem in general is very low. The highest probablity of resolving a problem lay in replacing the jumper, but I would guess that has less than a 1% chance of causing a problem.

For a more effective run at it, call the CATV company and demand they come out with a spectrum analyzer, a distortion analyzer, and a signal flatness analyzer (sometimes called a sweep system). Some CATV systems use a single device which can do all this. Have them verify the signal levels at the back of the receiver across the entire CATVspectrum and look for ingress carriers with the Spectrum analyzer. No video carrier should be more than 10dB higher than any other video carrier across the entire spectrum. No video carrier should be more than 2dB higher than any adjacent carrier. The spectrum should be as free as possible of any ingress carriers, although in some areas ingress is unavoidable. The digital (high) end of the spectrum should be completely free of ingress carriers. The carrier / 3rd order distortion ratio should be no lower than 30dB on any channel. The peak video signal should be no more than 12 dBmV, and the lowest video signal should be no less than 0dBmV. Digital video will probably be run 10dB lower than the analog carriers, but after subtracting the differential, the same specs should apply. Finally, the spectrum flatness should be no more than 4 dB peak-to-valley after compensating for amplifier tilt and cable loss. If all these are good, then the CATV system is probably delivering a good signal to your TiVo.


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## Chimpware

lrhorer said:


> Well, those are all easy things to do, so I can't say it was foolish to try them, but the chances any of them would affect any given problem in general is very low. The highest probablity of resolving a problem lay in replacing the jumper, but I would guess that has less than a 1% chance of causing a problem.
> 
> For a more effective run at it, call the CATV company and demand they come out with a spectrum analyzer, a distortion analyzer, and a signal flatness analyzer (sometimes called a sweep system). Some CATV systems use a single device which can do all this. Have them verify the signal levels at the back of the receiver across the entire CATVspectrum and look for ingress carriers with the Spectrum analyzer. No video carrier should be more than 10dB higher than any other video carrier across the entire spectrum. No video carrier should be more than 2dB higher than any adjacent carrier. The spectrum should be as free as possible of any ingress carriers, although in some areas ingress is unavoidable. The digital (high) end of the spectrum should be completely free of ingress carriers. The carrier / 3rd order distortion ratio should be no lower than 30dB on any channel. The peak video signal should be no more than 12 dBmV, and the lowest video signal should be no less than 0dBmV. Digital video will probably be run 10dB lower than the analog carriers, but after subtracting the differential, the same specs should apply. Finally, the spectrum flatness should be no more than 4 dB peak-to-valley after compensating for amplifier tilt and cable loss. If all these are good, then the CATV system is probably delivering a good signal to your TiVo.


Thanks, that was actually helpful, I will give that a try this week. Only concern is that I undertand only about 50% (or less really) of what you wrote so I guess I ahve some studying to do before teh cable guy comes.


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## Saturn

lrhorer said:


> I have a real suggestion. The source codes for the 8.1 software have been posted. I suggest someone point to me (and TiVo) where they think this code is faulty.


TiVo only posts the kernel and tools - essentially only the GPL stuff. The actual TiVo application you see is propriatary, as are the drivers for the hardware. You won't see the source for any of these unless you work for TiVo.


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## btwyx

Phantom Gremlin said:


> IMO it could very well be hardware glitches that are causing this. And yes, at various points in my career I've been paid to write software and to design ASICs and to design systems.


Even if it is hardware, the hardware guys just get us software guys to work around the problem anyway. The line between hardware and software problem can be a little blurry. The worst case would be a hardware problem with no software workaround.


----------



## lrhorer

Chimpware said:


> OK, top be honest I don't care where the problem lies, and it should not be mine to solve.


It also isn't TiVo's to solve if it's being caused by substandard CATV signals. Indeed, by law, it is not TiVo's to fix unless they are failing to meet CableLabs certification specifications, nor would it be possible for them to fix it unless that is the case. (Assuming the problem is in reception. One poster here was clearly having a problem in transmission, which is an entirely different matter.) If it were, it should have shown up and been flagged when the boxes were submitted for certification, unless they've had a bad batch of boxes produced in their manufacturing run.



Chimpware said:


> The fact of the matter is that I as well as many others who have posted will be returning our Tivo HD units (2 in my case) if this issue is not remedied within the next 2 or 3 weeks.


You're free to do whatever you want, for whatever reason you want, but threatening TiVo they have to fix something which they have no power to fix or you'll return the unit doesn't help.



Chimpware said:


> Posting that someone should sort through their code to find the issues is assinine


No, it isn't. You are claiming there is something TiVo should be able to fix in their code. I'm asking you where you think that code is broken. Otherwise, quit asking for software fixes.



Chimpware said:


> as well as many of your other ridiculous comments such as pointing out that analog SD video can be grainy and therefore it makes a pixelated HD pictures from a Tivo HD acceptable.


That's not what I said. I said the local SD programming is all but unbearable to watch. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 10 is the best *SD* picture quality, some of the channels get a 3, and many only get a 5 or a 6. American Movie Classics, USA Network, Animal Planet, Fox, Sci-Fi, FX, CNN, WGN, and a number of others all look like hammered dog pookie.

The HD programming I am watching here even with the pixelization is fabulous - with an occasional glitch. If the pixelization on the HD material were happening ten times more often, then the HD content might get close to being unwatchable. It is just that on the Top Gun recording I mentioned, but there the video was pixelating every minute or so, and the picture would be jumbled and the audio gone for several seconds at a time. It would get a 2 at best, but most of the programming on the units gets a 14 even with the few drop-outs. Some get a 15, with no or almost no drop-outs. The best DVD gets a 10.

You asked, "...what is the point of having an HD device that has poor picture quality, when you could have an SD device with no pixelation, or a cable supplied box that works correctly?"
To which my response is, "Why would I drop a service whose worst typical offering is a 13 so I can go back to a service whose best possible offering is a 10, but whose typical offering is rarely better than 8, and often worse than 5?"

To the second half of the question I can only repsond that calling what the SA 8300 does "working correctly" is like saying the Spruce Goose could fly. The rate of pixelization I saw with it was not noticeably better than my Series III TiVos, and the user interface was completely unacceptable.


----------



## lrhorer

Chimpware said:


> Thanks, that was actually helpful, I will give that a try this week. Only concern is that I undertand only about 50% (or less really) of what you wrote so I guess I ahve some studying to do before teh cable guy comes.


dB is a means of measuring power ratios. it is defined as 10 * Log (P1/P2), where Log is the logarithm base 10 of the power ratio. If one signal is 3.5dB higher than another, then it is twice as powerful. If it is 10dB higher, then it is ten times as powerful. A negative number indicates the upper number is smaller than the lower.

dBmV is a measure of the power of a signal relative to a 1mV signal across 75 ohms. A +60dBmV signal is 1 volt across 75 ohms.

An ingress carrier is a signal getting into a transmission line (in this case a CATV coaxial cable) from a source outside the transmission system. There are lots of signals in the air, from radio and television stations to paging system, aircraft communications, HAM radio, electric motors - you name it. If the levels of any carrier getting into a CATV cable are very high, they will cause problems there. For example, if a cable has a crack, then off-air channels will likely cause venetian blind or herringbone beats on the channels at which they reside. An ingress carrier can easily cause intermittent or persistent pixelization. Some receivers are better than others at rejecting in-band ingress carriers.

Second order distortion is not generally a problem in modern CATV plants because hybrid amplifiers very nearly completely eliminate 2nd order distortion, but composite 2nd order can sometimes be a problem for digital carriers, and if one side of a gain stage is bad, an amplifier can cause large amounts of 2nd order distortion. This is pretty easy to spot in analog signals, and can be readily measured by distortion analyzers. The effects of second order distortion increase by 1dB for every 1dB increase in signal levels.

Third order distortion is caused by a non-linear response in the output gain stages of an amplifier. No amplifier is perfect, and third order distortion increases as 20 * Log (# of amplifiers) in a cascade. By using fiber nodes, most CATV companies have greatly reduced the number of amplifiers in cascade to the user's house, but there are still often 3 or 4 in cascade before reaching the house - where there may be another amplifier. The effects of third order distortion also increase by 2dB for every 1dB increase in signal level, and more if the signals are not properly balanced. A small change in levels accompanied by a small change in tilt can devastate certain sections of the spectrum. As with ingress carriers, some receivers are better at rejecting third order distortion carriers than others.

Signal flatness is simple. The lower frequency signals are deliberately run at a lower level than the higher frequencies because the attenuation in the cable plant is lower at those frequencies. Typically at the amp, the high end video carriers may be 8 or 9 dB hotter than the lowest channels. After leaving an amplifier and moving down the CATV plant, the higher frequency signals drop in level faster than the lower frequencies. After some distance, the high end will have dropped to the point where it is the same level as the lower frequencies. The signal is still quite useable well beyond this point, however, so the plant will continue to run until the highest frequency carrier has dropped about 16dB more than the lowest carrier. At the back of your set, the high frequencies may be higher in level or the lower frequencies, may be, but the difference between the highest and lowest must not be greater than 10dB (don't forget to add the offset to digital carriers when comparing to analog carriers). Actually, come to think of it, that spec may be 9dB, not 10. It's been nearly 25 years since I've done any FCC compliance testing, so my memory is a bit foggy on the exact details. No carrier should be more than 2dB above or below its adjacent carriers. Again, distortions in the receiver caused by an overly tilted signal and common mode rejection of adjacent carriers will vary between receivers. One might do fine and another be sent mad.

Finally, spectrum flatness is also a simple notion. In a perfect scenario, every carrier would be injected at exactly the same level into the plant at the cable headend, and those signals would reach the consumer again with every carrier being exactly the same level. Of course, as I have already mentioned, the levels are actually set up so they leave the amplifiers with a tilt and that tilt is partially or completely obliterated or even reversed by the CATV plant along the way to the subscriber. The tilt and cable equalization can be compensated for in the test equipment, however, and in a perfect world a perfectly flat signal - with each carrier being exactly equal in level - would pop out. This is not the case, however. cable connectors, directional couplers, and amplifiers all have a unique frequency response which will cause some areas of the spectrum to be attenuated just a bit more than others. The overall response is called spectrum flatness, or in the vernacular peak-to-valley. After compensating for signal tilt and cable equalization, the maximum difference between the highest area of the spectrum (usually very distinct from the carrier with the highest level) and the lowest area of the spectrum is 4.0dB.


----------



## Chimpware

lrhorer said:


> It also isn't TiVo's to solve if it's being caused by substandard CATV signals. Indeed, by law, it is not TiVo's to fix unless they are failing to meet CableLabs certification specifications, nor would it be possible for them to fix it unless that is the case. (Assuming the problem is in reception. One poster here was clearly having a problem in transmission, which is an entirely different matter.) If it were, it should have shown up and been flagged when the boxes were submitted for certification, unless they've had a bad batch of boxes produced in their manufacturing run.
> 
> You're free to do whatever you want, for whatever reason you want, but threatening TiVo they have to fix something which they have no power to fix or you'll return the unit doesn't help.
> 
> No, it isn't. You are claiming there is something TiVo should be able to fix in their code. I'm asking you where you think that code is broken. Otherwise, quit asking for software fixes.
> 
> That's not what I said. I said the local SD programming is all but unbearable to watch. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 10 is the best *SD* picture quality, some of the channels get a 3, and many only get a 5 or a 6. American Movie Classics, USA Network, Animal Planet, Fox, Sci-Fi, FX, CNN, WGN, and a number of others all look like hammered dog pookie.
> 
> The HD programming I am watching here even with the pixelization is fabulous - with an occasional glitch. If the pixelization on the HD material were happening ten times more often, then the HD content might get close to being unwatchable. It is just that on the Top Gun recording I mentioned, but there the video was pixelating every minute or so, and the picture would be jumbled and the audio gone for several seconds at a time. It would get a 2 at best, but most of the programming on the units gets a 14 even with the few drop-outs. Some get a 15, with no or almost no drop-outs. The best DVD gets a 10.
> 
> You asked, "...what is the point of having an HD device that has poor picture quality, when you could have an SD device with no pixelation, or a cable supplied box that works correctly?"
> To which my response is, "Why would I drop a service whose worst typical offering is a 13 so I can go back to a service whose best possible offering is a 10, but whose typical offering is rarely better than 8, and often worse than 5?"
> 
> To the second half of the question I can only repsond that calling what the SA 8300 does "working correctly" is like saying the Spruce Goose could fly. The rate of pixelization I saw with it was not noticeably better than my Series III TiVos, and the user interface was completely unacceptable.


Just some quick simple points:

1. I am not asking for a software fix, that is what the Tech. at Tivo told me they were working on. I am asking Tivo to remedy the situation. Telling everyone that legally Tivo is not responsible is useless. No one is going to take the local cable company to court to get their Tivo working properly.
2. Many people including me are not happy with a picture that pixelates once every minute or so, and if Tivo cannot either remedy the situation, or provide adequate troubleshooting support to have the situation remedied a lot of Tivo HD unit will be returned, that is just a fact. I am in no way threatening Tivo, I am just stating a fact. At the end of the day the Tivo does not work properly for many people here. I have 2 SA 8300 HD boxes on the same lines as the Tivo HD units and never have had any pixelation issues. Do they work as well as a Tivo, No, but they work. Who the heck would want a Ferrari that stalled every mile, even though it was a great sports car?

If you are happy with a pixelated picture then you have no problems, no reason to post on any of the thread realted to pixelation then I guess huh?


----------



## Chimpware

lrhorer said:


> dB is a means of measuring power ratios. it is defined as 10 * Log (P1/P2), where Log is the logarithm base 10 of the power ratio. If one signal is 3.5dB higher than another, then it is twice as powerful. If it is 10dB higher, then it is ten times as powerful. A negative number indicates the upper number is smaller than the lower.
> 
> dBmV is a measure of the power of a signal relative to a 1mV signal across 75 ohms. A +60dBmV signal is 1 volt across 75 ohms.
> 
> An ingress carrier is a signal getting into a transmission line (ion this case a CATV coaxial cable) from a source outside the transmission system. There are lots of signals in the air, from radio and television stations to paging system, aircraft communications, HAM radio, electric motors - you name it. If the levels of any carrier getting into a CATV cable are very high, they will cause problems there. For example, if a cable has a crack, then off-air channels will likely cause venetian blind or herringbone beats on the channels at which they reside. An ingress carrier can easily cause intermittent or persistent pixelization. Some receivers are better than others at rejecting in-band ingress carriers.
> 
> Second order distortion is not generally a problem in modern CATV plants because hybrid amplifiers very nearly completely eliminate 2nd order distortion, but composite 2nd order can sometimes be a problem for digital carriers, and if one side of a gain stage is bad,m an amplifier can cause large amounts of 2nd order distortion. This is pretty easy to spot in analog signals, and can be readily measured by distortion analyzers. The effects of second order distortion increase by 1dB for every 1dB increase in signal levels.
> 
> Third order distortion is caused by a non-linear response in the output gain stages of an amplifier. No amplifier is perfect, and third order distortion increases as 20 * Log (# of amplifiers) in a cascade. By using fiber nodes, most CATV companies have greatly reduced the number of amplifiers in cascade to the user's house, but there are still often 3 or 4 in cascade before reach8ing the house - where there may be another amplifier. The effects of third order distortion also increase by 2dB for every 1dB increase in signal level, and more if the signals are not properly balanced. A small change in levels accompanied by aq small change in tilt can devastate certain sections of the spectrum. As with ingress carriers, some receivers are better at rejecting third order distortion carriers than others.
> 
> Signal flatness is simple. The lower frequency signals are deliberately run at a lower level than the higher frequencies because the attenuation in the cable plant is lower at those frequencies. Typically at the amp, the high end video carriers may be 8 or 9 dB hotter than the lowest channels. After leaving an amplifier and moving down the CATV plant, the higher frequency signals drop in level faster than the lower frequencies. After some distance, the high end will have dropped to the point where it is the same level as the lower frequencies. The signal is still quite useable well beyond this point, however, so the plant will continue to run until the highest frequency carrier has dropped about 16dB more than the lowest carrier. At the back of your set, the high frequencies may be higher in level or the lower frequencies, may be, but the difference between the highest and lowest must not be greater than 10dB (don't forget to add the offset to digital carriers when comparing to analog carriers). Actually, come to think of it, that spec may be 9dB, not 10. It's been nearly 25 years since I've done any FCC compliance testing, so my memory is a bit foggy on the exact details. No carrier should be more than 2dB above or below its adjacent carriers. Again, distortions in the receiver caused by an overly tilted signal and common mode rejection of adjacent carrioers will vary between receivers. One might do fine and another be sent mad.
> 
> Finally, spectrum flatness is also a simple notion. In a perfect scenario, every carrier would be iunjected at exactly the same level into the plant at the cable headend, and those signals would reach the consumer again with every carrier being exactly the same level. Of course, as I have already mentioned, the levels are actually set up so they leave the amplifiers with a tilt and that tilt is partially or completely obliterated or even reversed by the CATV plant along the way to the subscriber. The tilt and cable equalization can be compensated for in the test equipment, however, and in a perfect world a perfectly flat signal - with each carrier being exactly equal in level - would pop out. This is not teh case, however. cable connectors, directional couplers, and amplifiers all have a unique frequency response which will cause some areas of the spoectrum to be attenuated just a bit more than others. The overall response is called spectrum flatness, or in te vernacular peak-to-valley. After compensating for signal tilt and cable equalization, the maximum difference between the highest area of the spectrum (usually very distinct from the carrier with the highest level) and the lowest area of teh spectrum is 4.0dB.


Thanks appreciate the assistance. I already have an advanced degree in Chemical Engineering, gues I now need a PhD in Electrical Engineering to get my Tivo working.


----------



## lrhorer

Chimpware said:


> Just some quick simple points:
> 
> 1. I am not asking for a software fix, that is what the Tech. at Tivo told me they were working on. I am asking Tivo to remedy the situation.


Your posts - especially the first one - strongly suggest you do not think it is a hardware issue. The only other option is software, and you are asking TiVo to fix the problem, so the only inferreence is you are asking TiVo to implement a software fix. QED.



Chimpware said:


> Telling everyone that legally Tivo is not responsible is useless.


No, it isn't. The local CATV company is bound by law to make their CATV plant work with any CableCard certified device.



Chimpware said:


> No one is going to take the local cable company to court to get their Tivo working properly.


I never suggested they should. A phone call or letter to t he FCC can do wonders. For that matter, a call or letter to the General Manager of the CATV company quoting the FCC regulation and promising to call or write the FCC can work magic. In the past the FCC has not hesitated to levy six and seven figure fines to CATV companies and even to shut them down cold for non-compliance with FCC regulations.



Chimpware said:


> 2. Many people including me are not happy with a picture that pixelates once every minute or so


Unless I missed it, I believe this is the first time you have quantified the level of interruption in this thread. It would have been helpful had you been more specific in previous posts. That said, I still find it unlikely the TiVos are the culprit, and even less likely it is a software issue. I cannot guarantee either, of course. I've worked with many, many devices which worked fine on the bench, but failed in the field. In most cases I was eventually able to pin the down the problem to something in the field. Sometimes it was something very subtle, and it was not at all unusual for another device - either similar or of the exact same type - not to show the problem. There are always exceptions, however.



Chimpware said:


> and if Tivo cannot either remedy the situation


That's impossible if it is not a problem with the TiVos.



Chimpware said:


> or provide adequate troubleshooting support to have the situation remedied


What do you suggest? They can test returned units, but this will take considerably more than 2 weeks. Other than that, what do you think they should be able to do?



Chimpware said:


> I am in no way threatening Tivo, I am just stating a fact.


Of course you are. You are threatening to return the TiVo if the problem is not resolved. It's not a legally actionable threat - you have every right to return the unit under their stated warranty for whatever reason you like. This does not change the fact you are attempting to legally extort action from TiVo by legally threatening to impact their revenue stream.



Chimpware said:


> Who the heck would want a Ferrari that stalled every mile, even though it was a great sports car?


To extend your analogy, my point is you may be screaming at Ferrari because it stalls every mile when the reason it stalls is the cheap gas sold by your local filling station. Your beat up old Chevrolet may take the gas in stride, but the Ferrari may be choking on it. Returning the Ferrari will get rid of the problem, but so will buying better gas. If the gas costs the same, which is the better solution?



Chimpware said:


> If you are happy with a pixelated picture then you have no problems, no reason to post on any of the thread realted to pixelation then I guess huh?


So no one who disagrees with your point of view should post?

I am not happy with pixelization in the video. I wasn't happy with it the first time it started happening. (It was 1984, with the introduction of the Zenith Z-View converters in the local market, and I worked for the CATV company at that time.) I'm not happy with it now. A 90 minute movie with 3 or 4 drop-outs of not more than 2 seconds does not make the video less watchable than a grainy, snowy, beat ridden SD picture, however.


----------



## lrhorer

Chimpware said:


> Thanks appreciate the assistance. I already have an advanced degree in Chemical Engineering, gues I now need a PhD in Electrical Engineering to get my Tivo working.


All of that information should be readily deliverable from memory by every CATV technician. Very few CATV techs have even bachelor's degrees, let alone graduate degrees. Aside from the actual specifications for flatness, etc and the fact that hybrid amps eliminate 2nd order distortion, there is nothing there I did not know when I graduated high school. (Well, that and the single unit test sets. Those did not exist when I graduated high school.)


----------



## lrhorer

Saturn said:


> TiVo only posts the kernel and tools - essentially only the GPL stuff. The actual TiVo application you see is propriatary, as are the drivers for the hardware. You won't see the source for any of these unless you work for TiVo.


OK, I apologize. I thought the code for the UI was available.


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## Phantom Gremlin

btwyx said:


> Even if it is hardware, the hardware guys just get us software guys to work around the problem anyway. The line between hardware and software problem can be a little blurry. The worst case would be a hardware problem with no software workaround.


The scenario I'm afraid of is precisely a hardware problem w/o a workaround. For two reasons. First, it would probably be widespread and expensive. So TiVo might be reluctant to "own up" to it. Second, I don't want a refurbished replacement like some of the horror stories I've read. Filthy inside because of smoke or pet hair, etc.

I'm willing to wait 3 months for a software fix but am very wary of bad hardware.


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## Phantom Gremlin

lrhorer said:


> Then you have something else wrong. The menus are created internally to the TiVo and are not compressed and I do not believe they are encrypted. They do not pass through the Cable Cards or the Tuner, at all. Which TiVo output are you using?


Many others have reported problems with menus. I don't even have any cablecards. Using component output.

I think the main problem you are having with your posts is you are basing your responses on your experiences with an S3. We're talking TiVo HD here, a much different box.


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## aaronwt

The only pixelation I see in mine is repeated when you view it again and is also there on my Comcast STB and my Series 3. I did see pixelation once in the menu but it was very fast an located on the bottom 20% of the screen. I haven't seen it again but I'm still looking for it. I'm not using cable cards. The analog picture is fine for me. But I'm also using an HDMI Flea with the TiVoHD output. I did finally get it dialed in to where the picture is close to the Series 3 setting going through the Flea HDMI. I basically had to turn off all noise reduction from the analog recordings on the TiVoHD to get the picture looking the same. It's as if the TiVoHD is doing some kind of noise reduction on it's own. The Series 3 still has more detail, but the pictures are close. I still have the audio problem with the analog though where it is outputting the stereo signal as a mono signal in both channels. So at this point I can only use the TiVoHD for digital recordings since I haven't listened to TV in mono since the 80's.


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## mike_camden

lrhorer said:


> First of all, until the signal leaves the CableCard... With the exception of a post just previous to this one, I have seen no firm evidence either the TiVoHD nor the Series II are the source of the problem.


This doesn't explain the pixelation in the menus. First of all, I don't consider the pixelation bad enough in my case to be more than a mnor distraction.

However, the way it works really makes it sound like it to be something Tivo related. First, as has been reported by several people on this board, pixelation IS occuring in menu areas. Secondly, when pixelation occurs during LiveTV programming, when one (at least in my case and some of the others I have read here) rewinds to where the piexelation occured and plays again, the pixelation is not there.


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## hank12345

My situation- 

Started off with just analogue cable for about a week-- no macro-blocking on analogue channels or QAM, occasional very minor macro-blocking on menus 

Two SA cable cards (s-stream) installed- still no macro-blocking on analogue channels, but now random macro-blocking on hi-def and digital channels, brief, but every 3-10 min, on every hd and digital channel. 

I'm not a expert, but according to my cable tech, I have "excellent" signal strength (he checked it with some kind of meter, both outside, and at the line going into the Tivo box... 

I can also confirm the Tivo shows 100% signal on all channels... 

I don't know if this info will help the experts on the forum narrow down the cause, but I thought it was worth posting my experience--

I would hope a fix or official announcement from Tivo would happen soon, as everyone seems to be getting different answers from Tivo customer service... I tend to believe Megazone, as he has stated on his blog and in these forums: 

"do note that TiVo is aware of them and is working on additional updates to correct them." 

Hopefully sooner rather than later..... If not, I guess I'll have to return the box, and either live with analogue only, or switch back to D*-- yuck.


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## Chimpware

lrhorer said:


> Unless I missed it, I believe this is the first time you have quantified the level of interruption in this thread. It would have been helpful had you been more specific in previous posts. That said, I still find it unlikely the TiVos are the culprit, and even less likely it is a software issue. I cannot guarantee either, of course. I've worked with many, many devices which worked fine on the bench, but failed in the field. In most cases I was eventually able to pin the down the problem to something in the field. Sometimes it was something very subtle, and it was not at all unusual for another device - either similar or of the exact same type - not to show the problem. There are always exceptions, however.
> 
> That's impossible if it is not a problem with the TiVos.


Again you seem to be missing the point, but in this case you make mine for me. Saying it works on a bench and then if it does not work in the field it is someone elses issue is ridiculous, particularly without any support for this point coming from Tivo. Your suppositions are useless in this area. To take my analogy further, if I bought a Ferrari, it stalled every mile, I contacted Ferrari and they could not tell me why it stalled, but suggested to me (as well as others please read www.tivolovers.com for further info on teh Tivo issue) that they were working on it. I then post on the Ferrari board about the issue and some "know it all" simply claims, with no evidence whatsoever, that it is most likely an issue with the gas I am using and suggests a formulation required for the gas that is not in any documentation for the car, nor provided by the manufacturer. Yeah I can see how that is my problem.

I also do not want to get into writing letters to the FCC to get my Tivo working. This is not my issue alone others in many areas are having it. It is an issue Tivo needs to address.

If you feel it is a threat for a consumer to say they will return a product that does not work properly if the manufacturer does not provide adequate support to remery the problem, well I can't affect your view.


----------



## Saturn

This issue is not unlike the "stutter" problem of version 2.0, for those that have been around that long. 

S1's were working great on 1.3, then the new 2.0 software came out and people started coming out of the woodwork claiming how the video and audio were stuttering every so often. TiVo's official word was that it was a sign of a dying hard drive, and the upgrade exposed areas of the disk that were previously unused (despite the TiVo having two separate partitions for the software, one lies dormant when the other activates, but the Videos are stored in a common area.)

A little while later 2.5 was pushed out and the majority of the stuttering disappeared. Those that still had it could pinpoint it to a dying hard drive.

If there's problems in the menus and problems that don't reappear with instant replay then it is obviously some sort of decoding bug. Hardware or software, I don't know. But TiVo will probably be able to fix it with a software patch / workaround.


----------



## Chimpware

No one has mentioned power source as potentially contributing to this issue. Anyone think that is possible and a power conditioner would clear up the pixelation?


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## gwsat

I dont have a suggestion for curing the TiVo S3s and, apparently, HDs, distressing tendencies to produce audio dropouts and video pixelizing. I post only to add my vote for the proposition that the problem is TiVo related and, in my case anyway, probably has nothing to do with CableCARDs.

My biggest problems with dropouts and pixelizing have occurred when I have been watching an OTA channel. At times this glitch has been so frequent and severe that the program was unwatchable. Unfortunately, I have had the problem on cable channels occasionally, too, but it hasnt happened nearly as frequently as it has on OTA channels.


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## TokyoShoe

I've got TiVoHD , using 2 Motorola CableCards with COMCAST Cable, Houston Texas. I get maybe.. and I stress this a LOT ... *maybe 1 or 2 seconds worth of pixelation* per 10 to 12 hours of watched TV.

It's so far only actually happened to me 3 seperate times.. in 3 seperate programs, all recorded on seperate channels across seperate days. In all 3 cases, the pixelation is a small segment of either the lower left or lower right corner.. only covers about 20% of the screen, and lasts a maximum of 1 second before disappearing completely.

It is SO mild that I basically forget about it, as my Scientific America DVR from TimeWarner had about the same pace of picture quality problems.

No other performance issues with my TiVoHD , no pixelation during the menus.. only option I wish it had that it doesn't, is TiVoToGo.


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## gwsat

One or two such events over such a long period of time strikes me as a nonevent. To me, the problem isn 't really serious unless it is so disruptive that you can't follow the show you are trying to watch.


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## bkdtv

I have Verizon FiOS with two Motorola 'S' CableCards in my TivoHD. 

I see random pixelization. Sometimes it effects the full screen, sometimes it only effects one corner of the screen. It occurs anywhere from once to 10 times per hour. It lasts no more than a half-second. If I rewind back to where the pixelization occurred, I do not see it again. So this appears a hardware or software issue unrelated to the recording that causes random pixelization. I have also seen the pixelization occasionally (not frequently) in the menus while the TivoHD, typically when it was doing a lot of background processing.

The pixelization only lasts fraction of a second...however, I never saw this with the Tivo Series3 (when I had it) or the Verizon FiOS DVR. It is annoying especially if you are accustomed to a relatively pristine picture. I intend to stick with the TivoHD, but will no longer recommend it if Tivo can't resolve this issue in a timely manner.

I have tried the TivoHD with and without a power conditioner; it makes no difference. I have tried the TivoHD with the stock hard drive and a 750Gb Seagate DB35; it makes no difference. I have tried the TivoHD with the ambient room temperature set to 76 degrees and 68 degrees; it makes no difference. I have tried the TivoHD at native, 720p fixed, and 1080i fixed; it makes no difference. I have tried the TivoHD with and without the OTA feed connected; it makes no difference.


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## Chimpware

bkdtv said:


> I have Verizon FiOS with two Motorola 'S' CableCards in my TivoHD.
> 
> I see random pixelization. Sometimes it effects the full screen, sometimes it only effects one corner of the screen. It occurs anywhere from once to 10 times per hour. It lasts no more than a half-second. If I rewind back to where the pixelization occurred, I do not see it again. So this appears a hardware or software issue unrelated to the recording that causes random pixelization. I have also seen the pixelization occasionally (not frequently) in the menus while the TivoHD, typically when it was doing a lot of background processing.
> 
> The pixelization only lasts fraction of a second...however, I never saw this with the Tivo Series3 (when I had it) or the Verizon FiOS DVR. It is annoying especially if you are accustomed to a relatively pristine picture. I intend to stick with the TivoHD, but will no longer recommend it if Tivo can't resolve this issue in a timely manner.
> 
> I have tried the TivoHD with and without a power conditioner; it makes no difference. I have tried the TivoHD with the stock hard drive and a 750Gb Seagate DB35; it makes no difference. I have tried the TivoHD with the ambient room temperature set to 76 degrees and 68 degrees; it makes no difference. I have tried the TivoHD at native, 720p fixed, and 1080i fixed; it makes no difference. I have tried the TivoHD with and without the OTA feed connected; it makes no difference.


Sounds like your issue is slightly different than mine. I have pixelation once every minute or so for about a 1/2 to 1 second. Occurs when I rewind back to spot where it occured. Have never seen pixelation on the menus.

I am going to try a signal amplifier when I get home later today to see if that affects the issue. I also have a turck rolling from Cablevision on Wednesday to check all the aspects of the signal outlined by lrhorer in a previous post. I will keep everyone updated with results.


----------



## AGBulls

TokyoShoe said:


> I've got TiVoHD , using 2 Motorola CableCards with COMCAST Cable, Houston Texas. I get maybe.. and I stress this a LOT ... *maybe 1 or 2 seconds worth of pixelation* per 10 to 12 hours of watched TV.
> 
> It's so far only actually happened to me 3 seperate times.. in 3 seperate programs, all recorded on seperate channels across seperate days. In all 3 cases, the pixelation is a small segment of either the lower left or lower right corner.. only covers about 20% of the screen, and lasts a maximum of 1 second before disappearing completely.
> 
> It is SO mild that I basically forget about it, as my Scientific America DVR from TimeWarner had about the same pace of picture quality problems.
> 
> No other performance issues with my TiVoHD , no pixelation during the menus.. only option I wish it had that it doesn't, is TiVoToGo.


These pixelation and total picture drop-outs are commonplace with my Comcast Motorola box. In fact, sometimes I miss a good 2-3 seconds of a show because of them. My signal strength is excellent (I've had it checked) and we've kind of just accepted it.

I'm going to be picking up a Tivo HD later today, and really hadn't given this any thought until this problem thread showed up. I figured with my modem and cable tv coming out of the same line, this was a large part of the problem. I'll let you guys know what I experience once I hook everything up later tonight.


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## tvofan

Chimpware said:


> No one has mentioned power source as potentially contributing to this issue. Anyone think that is possible and a power conditioner would clear up the pixelation?


Chimpware, my TiVo HD is connected to an APC UPS and I still see pixelation. So, I don't think power source is the problem.

I saw pixelation on the channels and behind the menu when connected antenna only (with good signal strength) and with cable & antenna. The TiVo HD is connected to the TV via component cables.

After I pick up my CableCARDs, I'm going to try recording the same show OTA and via cable to see if I still get pixelation on the channels. (This won't help the pixelation in the menus).

Do you see pixelation while using the Signal Strength screen? After experiencing pixelation on an HD OTA channel, I went to the Signal Strength screen to see if low signal was the cause. I didn't see any pixelation but maybe I didn't test it for long enough.


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## Chimpware

tvofan said:


> Chimpware, my TiVo HD is connected to an APC UPS and I still see pixelation. So, I don't think power source is the problem.
> 
> I saw pixelation on the channels and behind the menu when connected antenna only (with good signal strength) and with cable & antenna. The TiVo HD is connected to the TV via component cables.
> 
> After I pick up my CableCARDs, I'm going to try recording the same show OTA and via cable to see if I still get pixelation on the channels. (This won't help the pixelation in the menus).
> 
> Do you see pixelation while using the Signal Strength screen? After experiencing pixelation on an HD OTA channel, I went to the Signal Strength screen to see if low signal was the cause. I didn't see any pixelation but maybe I didn't test it for long enough.


Thanks for the note on the APC, I have one at home I might try later also if I get ambitious, but I have all my network hardware, a file server and my Vonage equipment plugged into it now so it will be a pain to test. Might pick up a new on at CC, would not be bad to have my AV equipment/Tivo/Mac Mini plugged into one I guess.

I do see pixelation on the signal strength screen, even in cases where the indicated strength is 100, but less frequent. I am wondering if I have signal fluctuations that are causing the pixelation that are not regestering on the Tivo signal meter as I am not sure what method/sample time is used to produce the signal meter.


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## TokyoShoe

AGBulls said:


> These pixelation and total picture drop-outs are commonplace with my Comcast Motorola box. In fact, sometimes I miss a good 2-3 seconds of a show because of them. My signal strength is excellent (I've had it checked) and we've kind of just accepted it.
> 
> I'm going to be picking up a Tivo HD later today, and really hadn't given this any thought until this problem thread showed up. I figured with my modem and cable tv coming out of the same line, this was a large part of the problem. I'll let you guys know what I experience once I hook everything up later tonight.


Oh I've never had a total picture OR audio dropout. No, I just maybe get a little chunk of pixelation that affects say.. 20% of the screen for 1 second. It's REAL minor, I mark it up to cable quality issues regarding the actual cable line in my older apartment complex.

I mostly wanted to share so others have some information regarding what others are experiencing with the TiVoHD's.


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## jazmaan

I was so nervous from reading these threads. But my TWC install went fairly well today after some temporary confusion regarding the 161-4 install "non-error". If you see that 161-4 error during installation of a Motorola card, just ignore it. And if your channel test gets no channels, just WAIT, it can take 5-10 minutes AFTER the home office "activates" before you card actually wakes up. My TWC tech had no clue about these issues, but I was able to research them online right here during the install.

Now I'm relieved to say that I am getting no pixellation, even though I've got two splitters on the line - one line to my Tivo, one to my DVD-Recorder, one to my TV and one to another TV! I was prepared to sacrifice those splits, but I didn't have to! I'm getting 93 - 100% Tivo signal strength and NO PIXELLATION!


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## Chimpware

For those who did not see the post from TivoPony in the other pixelation thread:



TiVoPony said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> We are aware that some of you are still reporting macroblocking or pixelation on certain channels. The team here continues to gather information to understand possible causes - they're making good headway.
> 
> The update we released on August 1st has proven to fix the issue for some customers, and we are working hard on a fix for the remaining cases. We will provide more concrete information as we can.
> 
> In the meantime, we appreciate your patience and the detailed feedback you've been providing.
> 
> Pony


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## bkdtv

_Repost..._

Do you all see the pixelization when you rewind / instant replay?

As I noted in another post, I see random pixelization on both live and recorded content from Verizon FiOS...but if I rewind / instant replay, I don't see it again. The problem isn't with the recordings since the pixelization never shows up in the same spot twice.

In contrast, for many SA CableCard users, the pixelization issue appears to remains even with instant replay / rewind. So it looks like there are two different issues here -- 1) random pixelization unrelated to source signal, and 2) pixelization related to the signal or decryption of the signal, typically when using Scientific Atlanta CableCards. I bet some users -- especially those with SA CableCards -- are experiencing both issues.

1) Do you use Scientific Atlanta or Motorola CableCards?
2) Do you see the pixelization in the same place when doing instant replay / rewind on live and recorded programming? Always / sometimes?


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## TokyoShoe

bkdtv said:


> _Repost..._
> 
> Do you all see the pixelization when you rewind / instant replay?
> 
> As I noted in another post, I see random pixelization on both live and recorded content from Verizon FiOS...but if I rewind / instant replay, I don't see it again. The problem isn't with the recordings since the pixelization never shows up in the same spot twice.
> 
> In contrast, for many SA CableCard users, the pixelization issue appears to remains even with instant replay / rewind. So it looks like there are two different issues here -- 1) random pixelization unrelated to source signal, and 2) pixelization related to the signal or decryption of the signal, typically when using Scientific Atlanta CableCards. I bet some users -- especially those with SA CableCards -- are experiencing both issues.
> 
> 1) Do you use Scientific Atlanta or Motorola CableCards?
> 2) Do you see the pixelization in the same place when doing instant replay / rewind on live and recorded programming? Always / sometimes?


Well I got struck by it for the first time today. My Tivo recorded "Escape From New York" in HD off some channel in the 400's. Playback results in constant shots of pixelation at a regular interval of every 5 seconds. It also actually disrupts the audio too.

This is the first and so far only recording I've got this on, and it's aweful. Made the recording unwatchable. I do actually see the pixellation during rewind as well.


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## jhershauer

I had my cablecards (scientific atlanta) installed today on my Tivo HD (latest software) and ran some tests tonight.

First, with regards to the cablecard install, things went pretty well. One of the first two cards didn't take, so he popped a third one in and that one worked fine. It didn't take very long to get it all up and running. Unfortunately, there was a lot of pixelation. The signal strength was at 68 or so, with a SNR of 30. He had a truck come out and boost the signal across the street at the box that feeds myself and 7 other houses in the neighborhood, and that boosted the signal strength up to 90, with a SNR of 35. Unfortunately, there's still noticeable pixelation.

So, tonight I decided to test out both OTA HD and Cox Cable HD signals. I put one tuner on Cox 705 (CBS HD), and the other on Antenna Ch 5.1 (OTA CBS HD), and set both to record. There was significant pixelation on both, with a little more on the cable. For OTA, I had varying numbers of pixelation "incidents", typically somewhere between 3 and 7 per minute. This was with a signal strength of between 97 and 100 in the diagnostic screen. On Cable, it was usually more like 6-8 incidents per minute.

I was doing this between 7:30 and 7:45pm. At 7:45pm, I unplugged the Antenna from the Tivo HD and plugged it directly into my TV, being careful not to move the antenna at all in the process. I watched the next 15 minutes of the OTA CBS HD straight off the TV, and didn't see a single issue. Meanwhile, the Cable HD continued to record on the Tivo, and the recording was still filled with pixelation.

I have noticed that I get occasional pixelation during Live TV that isn't there if I go back and re-watch it, but most of the incidents occur both live and in repeat. I also see occasional pixelation in the Tivo menus.

It seems like the OTA pixelation got worse once the cablecards were installed. I've been watching it with just OTA signals for a week and a half now, and would see some pixelation, but not nearly as much as I do now.

Overall, I'm extremely disappointed right now. My wife was fine with DirecTV. We have an old DVR with Tivo on it in the family room. We have an R15 in the bedroom, which she really dislikes compared to the Tivo. I thought this was my opportunity to move up to HD and still keep the Tivo interface that we both love. I was going to get another Tivo HD for our bedroom.

I'm kicking myself a bit now for jumping on this so quickly, as even if I return the Tivo, I'll still be out a bunch of time, and some money to the cable company. I'll contact Tivo tech support, and hang loose for a little while longer (within my 30 day limit), but so far, things aren't looking good.

I'm not trying to dump on the Tivo HD...I want to love it...just sharing my experience so far.

Thanks,
Jeff


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## jazmaan

What kind of cablecards are you using? Also is 90 signal strength really the best you can get on any channel? I have a rat's nest of splitters and I'm still getting a minimum of 93 and some channels at 100.


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## jhershauer

jazmaan said:


> What kind of cablecards are you using? Also is 90 signal strength really the best you can get on any channel? I have a rat's nest of splitters and I'm still getting a minimum of 93 and some channels at 100.


I updated my post. They're Scientific Atlanta cards, and yes, 90 is the best I can get...but it's a heck of a lot better than the 68 I was getting before they came out and boosted things outside. I originally stated that it started out at 50, but that was when I had a splitter between my cable modem and the Tivo HD. I moved the modem to another outlet, and that increased the signal to 68...then 90 after they came out.

I might still have some hope that having them come out and boost the signal more would help, but my OTA test kind of put a damper on that.

Thanks,
Jeff


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## smbaker

I tried recording a few programs tonight, both digital OTA. The first was 'The Singing Bee', which was unwatchable due to constant pixelation issues. Immediately following it (on a different OTA station) I recorded Hell's Kitchen, with almost zero pixelation. 

I didn't do a signal strength check as the Tivo was recording at the time, but on previous checks I've usually received signal strength in the 90-100 range for each of these stations. Therefore, I don't know if it was a signal reception issue, broadcast issue, or Tivo issue. 

I have no cablecards. 

A few times I have noted Tivo menu pixelation incidents. I have 10ft of HDMI cable between Tivo and TV.

I wish recorded programs would log minimum, maximum, and average signal strength -- it would make diagnosis of these problems much easier.


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## jsmiley125

jhershauer said:


> He had a truck come out and boost the signal across the street at the box that feeds myself and 7 other houses in the neighborhood, and that boosted the signal strength up to 90, with a SNR of 35. Unfortunately, there's still noticeable pixelation.
> Jeff


What's considered good SNR? Average SNR?


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## Chimpware

Further trials;

I tried a Philips Amplifier, which stated it worked for digital cable. No joy, actually made the situation worse. No matter how I had the gain adjusted the signal on my Tivo for a channel that had a signal strength of 88 prior to adding the amplifier, was no higher than 62.

I might give the Motorola Signal Booster, as many people have had good success according to the CirtuiCity site for issues relatedto signal strength.


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## lessd

This comment I posted on the other Pixelation Thread

Pixelation has been reported on the TiVo menu system and I did see it once on the TiVo menu system, for such a short time if this thread did not exist i would not have reported it but the TiVo Menu takes the pixelation problem out the tuner system, cable system and CC, the issue must be in the output electronics/control. Does the output setting make any difference as I do not see this pixelation as much as other are and I am using 1080i fixed and HDMI.


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## Dogen

I have some pixelation with simultaneous audio dropouts on random channels and also the menu. I would tend to assume it's somewhere in the Tivo hardware since it appears on the menu screen and I don't get pixelation with any other hardware (DVD player, game consoles, old Tivo2 plus cable box, etc.)

It's not bad nor is it frequent, but it is there.


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## drew00001

Chimpware said:


> Just wanted to start a thread with various troubleshooting measures that have been tested;
> 
> 3. Cooled system down from 48 C to 43 C using external fan - No Difference.


Is 48C considered hot for either the HD or S3?


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## Chimpware

drew00001 said:


> Is 48C considered hot for either the HD or S3?


No, just wanted to see if this was a factor.


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## cramer

lessd said:


> Is anybody getting this pixelation problem when not using CC ? I have set up two of these 652 TiVos (for friends) and checked the free HD channels and have observed no problems of pixelation or anything else. We are on Comcast Hartford CT.


Yes. I have no cable cards and it's not even connected to cable. I've seen the little glitch on OTA recordings (SD and HD), Tivo Casts, and Unbox videos.

It is _not_ a damaged data stream. MPEG errors are predictable and persist to the next I-frame. The glitch in the Tivo HD occur randomly and last for a few frames -- in my case, 1 or 2 -- and are almost unnoticable. (1/30th of a second isn't much time.)

Is it annoying? Not really. I've seen far worse. Is it a reason to take it back? NO. Tivo, Inc. will eventually figure out what's screwed up and fix it. Even if it's a hardware issue, They. Will. Fix. It.


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## adrianblack

AbMagFab said:


> Anyway, in addition to the channel pixellation, I see periodic menu pixelation, which is very new. I'm on component on my TivoHD, and HDMI on my S3. I'll probably switch to HDMI on the TivoHD to see if it makes any difference.


Yep -- I've seen the menu pixelization a bunch of times too. I in-place swapped my Motorola HD DVR for the Tivo HD and it has all the problems. Pixelization on CC channels. Random audio dropouts (which aren't recorded on the drive) and the menu thing also.

The old Motorols HD DVR sucked badly but it never had these problems. I'm using the identical cables even. (1080i component, TOSlink, etc.)

What a pain.


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## adrianblack

bkdtv said:


> _Repost..._
> Do you all see the pixelization when you rewind / instant replay?


I have seen this problem. Instant replay and it plays fine. I've also seen a few times when the pixelization was recorded -- but my signal strength is only 68. (One feed split four ways.)

I'm using Time Warner with motorola cable cards.

Also, my audio drop outs are never recorded. Sometimes my stereo has a hard time locking onto the signal when it drops and I loose a few seconds of audio. Much more annoying than the pixelization problems.


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## Chimpware

Well just had the Tech at my house for another 2 hours checking the signal to ensure it was not a cable issue. Only potential problem was a spike intermitently in the signal ingress which we could not trace. He changed every connection on the house, and oustide and we even ran a dry line from teh drop at the street into my house to the Tivo and still intermitent pixelation. He is excalating the issue to Cablevision engineering, but I am not hopeful.


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## TiVotion

cramer said:


> Is it annoying? Not really. I've seen far worse. Is it a reason to take it back? NO. Tivo, Inc. will eventually figure out what's screwed up and fix it. Even if it's a hardware issue, They. Will. Fix. It.


I totally agree with you on this. I have also seen far worse. The interruptions occur too infrequently for it to be a show stopper. It's minorly annoying, but that's as critical as I see it. Not worth returning the box over, and I do have faith that TiVo can come up with a software tweak to remedy the situation. I believe they've worked out most, if not all, similar issues that appeared with the S3 boxes (I have a S3 and it doesn't have the issue). If it's a hardware issue, it can probably be remedied with a software fix. Minor annoyance and I've love an answer, but I won't lose sleep over it.

I think some people may be returning their boxes prematurely, but that's their choice - guess everyone has to make a decision they are comfortable with.


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## TokyoShoe

Just an update on my performance of this situation:

I am now consistently getting pixelization on anything HD. It's usually just a little shot of it once during the recording.. but I have now had 2 HD movies recorded that were completely unwatchable due to this issue. Never seems to happen in SD recordings.


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## bhaas

just got cards put in slots 1 & 2. I do see some pixellating when using the 2nd tuner, not just HD channels. It's not consistent, and sometimes a channel does it, then it clears up, then it may show up on another, anywhere in the lineup

FIOS in AA cty MD, Motorola cards, Tivo is using 8.1.7b, all signal strengths 97-100%, SNR 35-39dB. On the pixellating channels, SNR fluctuates ~2dB over a time period of several seconds.

For my case I subjectively put it as no worse than watching OTA on a weaker station when there's a lot of multipath.


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## Chimpware

Almost definitive proof the pixelation problem lies within my Tivo. I sat down after a half day with the cable tech again to check out what was on Tivo and I saw a program listed in the main guide listing called Try Swivel Search Now, so I decided to check it out. While watching the Go on A TV Treadure Hunt selection I got the exact same pixelation I have been having on broadcast programs and when I rewound, it was repeatable, same pixelation in the same spot. so then I tried the same video on my other Tivo and it pixelated also, but in different spots, so it is not an issue with the source video.

Anyone want to chime in and explain how this could be caused by the cable signal or cable cards? Thought not.

Come on Tivo, its time to clearly admit the issue, not vaguely allude that some people are having a problem, and give us an ETA for the fix!


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## btwyx

Chimpware said:


> Come on Tivo, its time to clearly admit the issue, not vaguely allude that some people are having a problem,


When have they denied its their issue. I don't think Pony could be any clearer


> and give us an ETA for the fix!


What sort of world do you live in where you get ETAs for fixes they don't even seem to know the cause of. That really would be something to complain about if they did that.


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## Ishma

Chimpware said:


> Come on Tivo, its time to clearly admit the issue, not vaguely allude that some people are having a problem, and give us an ETA for the fix!


I thought TiVo Pony already admitted the issue. See the following thread. I didn't read it as vague, just seemed like they need more info.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361495


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## flyacl

I don't post much here. But I figured I would add my experience with this issue as well. 

Picked up the TivoHD a couple of days ago. While waiting for the cable company (Insight) to come install my cable cards I had it connected and updated with the latest software. During this time I messed around with it using the lower end analog channels. No problems to speak of during that time.

Today the tech came out and installed two Motorola cableCards. Install went fine and everything seems to be working. That is with the exception of the pixelation problem that appeared within the first 5 minutes. I have tried a few random things mentioned around the forums here, but nothing seems to fix it. 

Like everyone else, I love my Tivo but this is to much money to get a worse experience then I got with my box from the cable company. I will hold out for a couple of weeks. But if things are not fixed by then end of my 30 days I will return it and cancel both my Tivos. 

Fingers crossed but not all that hopeful. Take care~


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## lavinah

My report:

TiVO HD 
1 Motorola M Card - Comcast Chicago
100 Signal Strength (go me!)
Monster Clean Power Stage 3 power conditioner / backup
Component Video 1080i

Occassional pixalization (~7-10m) issues on all channels and menus, but less then I saw with the Motorola Comcast HD DVR. Minor annoyance, easily outweighed by the bevy of features and functionality that TiVo offers.

My guess is it is a glitch in the video card output processing, and that makes me hopeful for a software patch. I saw a similar issue with my Radeon 9600xt video card on video a while back and it was fixed with a driver update. If it's a hardware issue that gets resolved in a version update that doesn't effect my machine, TiVo will get hell from me, and I *will* get my unit replaced.

Which means dealing with the idiots at Comcast for swaping cable cards, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be software fixed.


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## Chimpware

btwyx said:


> When have they denied its their issue. I don't think Pony could be any clearerWhat sort of world do you live in where you get ETAs for fixes they don't even seem to know the cause of. That really would be something to complain about if they did that.


Never said they denied the issue. The problem is that they have never clearly taken ownership of the issue. When I have spoken to Level 2 Tech. at Tivo they still were recommending I get the cable company to check the line, which I did yesterday. They at no time told me to not spend time troublshooting the issue, nor that they have identified the problem. I even responded to Tivo Pony's post asking whether I should put off further troubleshooting efforts on my side or not, to which I got no response.

My concern is exactly what you are pointing out. If they do not know the source of the issue, then it still could be many factors and hopes of a fix are just that. If they have identified the issue, then communicate that and give us hope that it can be remedied. In addition if the source of the issue has been identified then an ETA for the solution is possible.

As part of my current position I have responsibility for global development so issues with product introductions are not foreign to me. I have found the best solution with respect to these issues is to communicate with customers as often as possible with updates on progress toward the solution. So far all we have gotten is vague statements that they are aware of the issue and are working on it. They has been nothing further really.


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## jmpage2

I just got my cable cards installed today, two Motorola Single-Stream cards on Comcast in the Denver suburbs.

My Tivo HD is connected to my Sony SXRD TV over an HDMI link. I have optical audio output from the Tivo to a Denon receiver.

I have noticed some weird macroblocking issues on a few channels, but nothing especially obnoxious (the slow menus and slower channel changes are far more irritating at this point) it ercertainly doesn't seem to happen with any set frequency. I have not had the opportunity to see if anything weird is going on with recorded shows.

I have noticed a weird pixel smearing along the bottom 1/5 of the screen when jumping into the "Now Playing" screen or other menu screens. It looks like some kind of video artifact of the screen changing. Certainly nothing that gets me particularly concerned.

I do hope that they fix the problem in the near future as, who knows, the probs might get worse for me in the next 30 days after my return/cancellation windows expire.

My Comcast tech will be coming back out in a week or two to put an M-card in the system to avoid extra charges for the 2nd cable card. Will be interesting to see if that causes any new problems. Fortunately he has put Cable Cards in lots of Tivos so he pretty much knows what he is doing.


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## lrhorer

jazmaan said:


> What kind of cablecards are you using? Also is 90 signal strength really the best you can get on any channel? I have a rat's nest of splitters and I'm still getting a minimum of 93 and some channels at 100.


Signal strength (also called carrier level) is only one - usually fairly irrelevant - measure of signal quality, and may not strongly affect S/N. A carrier level which is too low for a receiver (i.e. below the receiver's specification for sensitivity) will cause reception quality issues. On an analog TV receiver, this will be perceived primarily as "snow". The lower the carrier level, the snowier the picture. It may also occasionally cause other artifacts not directly related to the signal level to be more noticeable. In a transmission system, to first order the noise level is fixed by the system topology (number of amplifiers in cascade, ambient temperature of the plant, noise figure of the amplifiers, etc.). In addition to the noise produced by the transmission system, every modulated signal source has some non-infinite C/N ratio. The total C/N of the signal itself is equal to the signal level divided by the sum of the transport noise and the source noise. In most cases, however, the source noise is far lower than the transport system noise, so the overall C/N is just the signal level divided by the transport noise level. The third component to S/N is the noise figure of the receiver itself. Indeed, fundamentally it is this value which determines the receiver sensitivity. A low S/N ratio in an analog signal will result in graininess, color artifacts, or "black snow" in the displayed picture if the input signal level to the receiver is well above its maximum sensitivity.

So why not just increase the signal levels? Well, first of all, too high a signal will cause problems with the signal just as signals which are too low. What's more, increasing the signal levels in the plant may not have a very large effect on the S/N, which is the real measure of signal quality. Increasing the gain of an amplifier at the end of the cascade (behind the house) by 8 or 10 dB may not increase the S/N by more than 1 dB, or even less. On the other hand, 2nd order distortion increases by 2dB for every 1dB increase in signal levels, and 3rd order distortion increases by 3dB for every 1dB increase in signal levels. Second and especially 3rd order distortion will really do a number on signal quality. 'And that is for an analog AM signal, where there is a direct relationship between carrier/noise and signal/noise.

OK, that's for analog signals. What about digital signals? Well, there we're really out of the relatively simple S/N world and into the world of distortion and ingress much more than of S/N. A "perfect" analog video signal is anything above 65dB S/N. That is to say, double blind studies have determined that no human subject can tell the difference between a video signal with a 65dB S/N and one with an 80dB S/N. The average consumer cannot tell the difference between a 60dB S/N and a 65dB S/N in pictures displayed side by side. Most consumers can tell a slight difference between a 50dB and 55dB S/N displayed sequentially (not side by side). The analog signal degrades rather gracefully, however, with the picture being poor but still identifiable even with a 15dB S/N. Digital signals do not degrade gracefully. The lowest possible recoverable digital S/N is 6dB, but most systems - especially tuneable broadband systems - require much higher S/N that that to be able to recover a signal. Nonetheless, no matter what the maximum sensitivity, the recovered data will be essentially "perfect" (usually specified as either better than 1 billion or 1 trillion bits per error depending on the system) down to a certain S/N level, at which point decreasing the S/N by even 1dB will produce significant errors. The difference between an essentially perfect data recovery and a complete loss of all data may be as little as 3dB. For signals well in the optimum range of signal levels and S/N, a change of 2 or 3 dB won't make a difference to a digital receiver, but a change of 2 or 3 dB in distortion can make a huge difference.

The bottom line is this: Once a digital signal is "good", increasing the signal level does nothing whatsoever (except allow the system a little headroom to degrade over time without impacting reception). An analog signal which suffers an error only loses the information on the screen for the duration of the error, which may be exceedingly - perhaps imperceptibly - brief. Without forward error correction (which increases bandwidth significantly for the same amount of information transferred), the loss of a single bit, which may be a mere .01 microseconds in extent in a CATV broadcast video stream, will cause an entre packet of information to be lost. Depending on the encoding and whether it is an I-frame or a B-frame, this single lost bit may produce a very noticeable glitch in the picture. Once the signal level is above the maximum receiver sensitivity and the S/N is above the digital recovery threshold, increasing the signal level only increases the likelihood of lost packets due to distortion or common mode rejection issues due to receiver overload.


----------



## lrhorer

Chimpware said:


> Almost definitive proof the pixelation problem lies within my Tivo. I sat down after a half day with the cable tech again to check out what was on Tivo and I saw a program listed in the main guide listing called Try Swivel Search Now, so I decided to check it out. While watching the Go on A TV Treadure Hunt selection I got the exact same pixelation I have been having on broadcast programs and when I rewound, it was repeatable, same pixelation in the same spot. so then I tried the same video on my other Tivo and it pixelated also, but in different spots, so it is not an issue with the source video.
> 
> Anyone want to chime in and explain how this could be caused by the cable signal or cable cards? Thought not.


This is clearly not likely to be an issue with the CATV company or the Cable Cards, but it is also extremely unlikely to be related to the 2nd slot issue, isn't it? What's more, it gives us a better handle on what is happening, or at least one of the things that may be happening.  Note the tone of your posts strongly suggest you think there is a single problem. I seriously doubt this to be the case, but one never knows. To wit, the CATV plant / HD receiver / CableCard system is not by any means guaranteed to deliver an informationally identical data stream to the hard drive system as that sent from the CATV headend. The extra TiVo content, however, comes over the internet via TCP, and it *DOES* guarantee delivery of every packet intact to the I/O subsystem.

On the other hand, if the pixelization is identical in every spot every time you run the video, then either the data somehow got corrupted between the TCP stack and the hard drive write head, or else there is a systemic error in getting the data off the drive and into the video section of the TiVo.

Another poster, however, is saying he is seeing variability in the errors from a single program, meaning in his case the data must be good on the drive and there is some intermittent problem between the hard drive and the video output system.

These three scenarios as related are almost certainly mutually excluded from having a single cause. Now either the reports from the people who are experiencing these problems are inaccurate and misleading, or there are at least three different problems running around here. The reports and quantitative analysis of the actual symptoms need to be firmly resolved and communicated or else no one will very likely be able to fix any of them, regardless of whose equipment is at fault.

This is not aimed at just you. Everyone who is experiencing an issue needs to be far more detailed and exacting in reporting it, or it possibly may never be resolved in a reasonable time. Be explicit, succinct, thorough, and clear. Report the serial number of the box, frequency of the problem's occurrence, duration of the events, and an estimate of how much of the screen area is involved. Is the interval highly regular, somewhat regular, or highly random? Is the audio impacted always, sometimes, or never? Are both analog and digital audio affected? Turn on Closed Captioning. Is it impacted? How? Will rewinding the video and replaying it clear the error? Does rewinding affect the error at all (audio, video, or Closed Captioning)? If you have the ability to try both component and HDMI connections, does it make a difference? Closely examine a single section of video again and again under different conditions to make the determination. Try a downloaded Amazon Unbox video. Does the problem with downloaded video look and feel identical to videos recorded from cable? Does the issue seem to coincide with highly active video (like smoke or swaying fields of grain)? Does the issue happen when specific colors are present (especially large amounts of red)? Is it worse on bright pictures or dark ones? Are pictures either with lots of edges (like a field of flowers or a crowd of people) or with smooth backgrounds (like a tabletop or a blank wall) affected more?

Carefully observing the issue and answering these questions and similar questions could get at the heart of the issues - or at least define them - very quickly, rather than dragging on with vague post after vague post and eratic calls to TiVo support.

(BTW, on my Series III I have never had a single pixelization on downloaded content.)


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## jmpage2

Well, I've been seeing more pixelation tonight on several channels. Interestingly (or not) we watched the first half of a movie on the Tivo HD and finished watching it in another room on the Motorola HD Tuner box (non DVR).

Bottom line is there was no artifacting in this movie on the Motorola box but there was noticeable (distracting) artifacting when watching the movie on the Tivo.

There are a few basic things that any digital tuner should do, producing a picture without noticeable artifacts (macroblocks, etc) is one of them. While I realize that there will be some encoding macroblocking due to the compression that the digital cable system uses, this appears to be something else entirely. Also, as others have noted, it is happening in the Tivo menus.

Hopefully there is a fix for this and a few other things (I had a lockup this evening just browsing channels) very soon as I have 30 days from today to cancel my Tivo subscription.


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## jmpage2

One interesting thing I've noticed about this problem is that it always affects only the lower portion of the screen. I've never seen it happen on the upper portion of the screen.

Definitely seems to be some kind of buffering/video output sort of problem to me. Maybe the drivers for the new video chipset aren't as solid as they ought to be.


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## Chimpware

lrhorer said:


> ... Be explicit, succinct, thorough, and clear...


You my friend should be banned from using the word "succinct" when it relates to any posts on this forum


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## lrhorer

Chimpware said:


> You my friend should be banned from using the word "succinct" when it relates to any posts on this forum


I submit my posts are succinct. They are thorough and detailed, and as succinct as thoroughness combined with explicit detail will admit. After nearly 40 years of designing and troubleshooting electronics systems, it's reflexive.


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## Phantom Gremlin

lrhorer said:


> Everyone who is experiencing an issue needs to be far more detailed and exacting in reporting it, or it possibly may never be resolved in a reasonable time. Be explicit, succinct, thorough, and clear.


I don't know what planet you're from, but I don't think it's Earth. We do things differently on Earth.

On Earth we can "report" our problems to a bunch of outsourced script monkeys (who will ask us if our box is plugged in and if we have rebooted it), or we can "report" our problems here.

Neither of which is likely to contribute much to having these problems fixed. But at least "reporting" them here makes us feel better. This forum is a support group for early adopters.

Sorry to be so cynical about it, but if TiVo really cared about our "reports", they would be responding in this forum. They would be publicly posting guidelines about what, how, and where to "report". Or they would be emailing us privately asking the same information. I have seen no indication that they have done either.

So far I think TiVo's attitude is something akin to: *Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.*

I'm upset because, in all likelihood, in a few weeks I'll have to cart off my TiVo HD to Circuit City and acknowledge to myself that my latest impulse purchase was a mistake. Then I'll be without an HD DVR for another year while I hope that TiVo can fix their problems.


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## GoHokies!

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Sorry to be so cynical about it, but if TiVo really cared about our "reports", they would be responding in this forum. They would be publicly posting guidelines about what, how, and where to "report". Or they would be emailing us privately asking the same information. I have seen no indication that they have done either.
> 
> So far I think TiVo's attitude is something akin to: *Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.*


Which is why Tivo Pony has replied in this forum, Tivo has publicly stated that they are aware of the problem, and have already pushed a software release that fixed the problem for some folks (which has got to be a record, ask an S3 owner how long they had to wait for the "fall" update last year).

Sounds like a company that is doing everything that they can, to me. I'd much rather they spend their time working on a fix than posting about it on an internet forum.


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## thewebgal

Just got the new TivoHD Aug 6. Ordered Cox to come install Cablecards - first trip they installed a pair of SA '06 cards - had problems with few channels on card 2. Second tech came last night - installed a pair of SA '07 cards. Now all the channels we pay for come in - but still has that pixelization problem on many channel. Maybe I'm fussy but I'd call it unwatchable when the picture pixelates or tears once or more a minute.

tech was very good checking splitters, replaced fittings, etc - finally connected a 100' test line from incoming line for the Tivo (inside the house) and fed it out to his truch a converter box and his test TV - no pixelization, no tearing, nada ...

COX tech says -6db is a fine level, shows me a good picture on his box with even less (through the 100 test cable etc) 

It looks to me like the TIVO box doesn't handle the signal as well - and its starting to look like my only choice is to ship the TIVO (and wireless adapter) back for a full refund and get a cable DVR -= and i HATE to give COX any more of my money a month ... but I also won't pay for something that flat doesn't work right.

FIOS says they are a year away from our home ... sigh.

Any more ideas?


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## Chimpware

GoHokies! said:


> Which is why Tivo Pony has replied in this forum, Tivo has publicly stated that they are aware of the problem, and have already pushed a software release that fixed the problem for some folks (which has got to be a record, ask an S3 owner how long they had to wait for the "fall" update last year).
> 
> Sounds like a company that is doing everything that they can, to me. I'd much rather they spend their time working on a fix than posting about it on an internet forum.


Couple of points;

1. While Tivo Pony's response was nice to get it did not address the issue, only vaguely said thay are aware some people are having issues and are working on it. It did not request any detailed troublshooting information, nor offer any real advice.

2. Amazing people are basically willing to applaud Tivo for fixing an issue quickly. It is ridiculous, the unit did not work as shipped with SA SCard in Slot 2 so they fixed it. Fine, should not have had the issue in the first place IMHO. No kudos for this.

3. I am tired of reading, "Get in line this has been a probelm for S3 owners for a while" and "ask an S3 owner how long they have had to wait..." If people that bought the S3 at its ridiculous price, have this issue and it was not remedied quickly they got what they deserved and obviously made the choice to keep a product that did not function properly. This will not be my choice, if this is not fixed within the 30 days I have beore I can return it to CC it is going back and I am canceling my subscription. Why, simply because they are not delivering the value proposition I am paying for, simple as that.

4. They are not communicating consistently, or enough in my opinion. If people have a case open with their engineering department I would like updates that go beyond 1 call back in a 2 week period that simple says "We are working on it". Not everyone in the company is troubleshooting this issue so to say "I woulod rather they work on the fix, than posting on a forum" is ludicrous. Do you think their market communication, or marketing department is working on a fix???

Ah well, done venting for now...


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## bkdtv

Chimpware said:


> Couple of points;
> 
> 1. While Tivo Pony's response was nice to get it did not address the issue, only vaguely said thay are aware some people are having issues and are working on it. It did not request any detailed troublshooting information, nor offer any real advice.


Tivo reads this forum and they have beta testers to test fixes.

The know about the problem and are working to fix it. What else do you expect them to communicate? Nothing is going to help until they fix the software.


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## Chimpware

bkdtv said:


> Tivo reads this forum and they have beta testers to test fixes.
> 
> The know about the problem and are working to fix it. What else do you expect them to communicate? Nothing is going to help until they fix the software.


Well here are some possible thoughts:

1. We can replicate the issue in our lab.
2. It is software related and not hardware related.
3. It is a Tivo issue so those having it please do not troubleshoot further with your cable companies regarding cable card or signal issues.
4. We have a beta of the fix completed and in our lab it does remedy the issue.

Just some thoughts since you asked. Basically any update on progress as well as some detail about the source of the issue would be helpful.

As an aside if the problem were with their billing system software / hardware and as many people as have pixelation issues were not being billed monthly for service how quick do people think that would be fixed??? I seriously doubt this would last longer than 1 week.


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## jmpage2

If Tivo is like most "software" companies they have programmers all over the world and it takes a lot of time to investigate issues and provide fixes for them.

On the other hand I would be surprised if they did not see this in Beta testing. I am getting the feeling that we've ALL seen this to some degree.

I did not think that the problem was really noticeable until we watched a movie last night and saw the problem happen quite frequently. Interestingly enough sometimes it will show up in the same spot if I rewind the feed, other times it won't be there when replayed from the buffer. Also as previously reported the problem sometimes happens in the Tivo menus which should have nothing to do with the signal at all, unless the menu is superimposed over a "null" image that is still part of the signal feed.

This would indicate that;

1. There is more than one source for this problem.

2. Tivo knew about this problem when they shipped the box and shipped anyways.

Those of you saying "it's not a big problem" are seriously living in fantasy land. Tivo is the highest priced mass market DVR product that is available today and the core functionality for playing back error free video is a *requirement* for that market.

As Chimp says, for those of you saying you've had this problem for months with your S3 and are still awaiting a fix, I'd say that you were foolish to keep a box that obviously doesn't work.

I will continue to evaluate for the remainder of my 30 day return policy and if Tivo does not fix the issues it is going back. My wife, who was really excited to get the Tivo asked me last night "why doesn't this work as well as our Comcast box?" and "how much did we pay for this again?". Certainly not getting high marks on the Wife Approval Factor won't be helping Tivo sell too many of these.

Maybe thousands of *returned* boxes stacking up with retailers will get the executives at Tivo to devote the necessary resources to fix this problem.


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## TiVoDoughBoy

jmpage2 said:


> Those of you saying "it's not a big problem" are seriously living in fantasy land. Tivo is the highest priced mass market DVR product that is available today and the core functionality for playing back error free video is a *requirement* for that market.


What is the deal with this sort of response? It's not the first I've seen it with respect to the pixelation issue and I'm certain it won't be the last. But really, how is it living in a "fantasy land" for an individual say that, to them, it's not a big problem? If it's a problem for you and those of you who post these kinds of replies, that's fine, I completely understand how plenty of people have an issue with it.

At the same time, however, there are many people for whom the issue, while not something they'd choose, is absolutely better than any of the alternatives. My own situation is that I moved to a plasma HD set last winter -- I purposely got one witth CableCard because I hate Comcast's Motorola cable boxes and didn't want/need one. The downside of going to HD, box or not, was that I had a pair of Series2 units and the SD recording just looked really bad on my HD set. So, given that (1) I didn't want a cable box, (2) loved my TiVo's (4 different units back to my original Philips first-generation box), and (3) really wanted my TiVo to be in HD, when the TiVo HD box shipped, I picked one up the day my local Circuit City had them in. And yeah, for me, even with the very intermittent pixelation, it's a better situation -- and I lost MRV and TTG on that unit, too! But, knowing TiVo's track record over the years, when there are issues like this, they are typically fixed. It may be a couple of months, sure, but it's still an improvement. Plus if I have MRV by the end of the year as they say is coming, then so much the better. If I for a second thought that the pixelation problem was permanent, my story might well be different.

So I'll probably get a nice flame for being some sort of moron who is living in a "fantasy land", but it's my $300 I spent and I'm happy with it. If you're not satisfied with yours, then great, I can respect and understand that. Return it and make your point to TiVo, but leave me and those like me out of it and let's get back to the conversation of what can be done to get to a resolution sooner rather than later and leave the rest of the "fantasy land" comments out of it.

Best,
J

P.S. My wife, too, asked me, "you spent how much?" on it when I first came home with it, but after a very smooth M-Card installation, she's also very happy with the improvements.


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## jmpage2

You are a long time Tivo lover and so it seems that you are willing to live with a less than perfect experience because you like Tivo.

I get that.

However, try looking at it from another point of view. Tivo is trying to woo people who already have a cable company DVR to turn in that DVR and get a cable card equipped Tivo HD to replace it.

This group of people who Tivo hopes will buy large numbers of their boxes need to see the value in Tivo. These people don't know how long it will take Tivo to fix these problems (apparently the S3 owners have been living with pixelation issues for almost a year now) and I doubt many of them will trade a "marginal" cable company DVR experience for a Tivo experience that isn't any better.

I think that many people who have been fans of Tivo for a long time simply refuse to accept this reality, instead insisting that those of us who were "ok" with our cable company DVRs are the delusional ones.

I can tell you this much;

1. Our Tivo HD is incredibly slow to change channels.

2. Our Tivo HD has dirt slow menus.

3. Our Tivo HD has pixelation on channels with 100% signal strength.

4. Our Tivo HD has locked up completely once already requiring a hard reboot.

For all the great things that Tivo does (and yes, I used to have Tivo) these things are deal breakers for me and probably other folks as well. Additionally, while the cable company DVR had some issues of its own (the occassional show didn't record which is a big problem too) it didn't have ANY of the above problems.


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## Bighouse

lrhorer said:


> I submit my posts are succinct. They are thorough and detailed, and as succinct as thoroughness combined with explicit detail will admit. After nearly 40 years of designing and troubleshooting electronics systems, it's reflexive.


You ramble...allow me to help:
"My posts are succinct."


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## calaban9

I plan on doing a little more testing tonight, (I just discovered this thread) but i think i saw the pixelation occuring more frequently if the other tuner was recording HD.... if that's the case it may be a cpu / io thing and could possibly be fixed with a software update. Anybody else want see if the see rates of pixelation changing depending on types of signals being recorded?


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## djmuoio

I'm posting to add another "yep I see macroblocking too" to the tally. Here is my info and observations thus far.

We got the Tivo HD a couple of days ago. I spent the first evening getting it set up and forcing an update the get the latest software. I then spent about an hour watching tv and playing with it. This first evening was _without_ any cable cards so I was limited to analog channels.

During that evening I did not experience any macroblocking or odd behavior. I felt that the responsiveness of the unit was very good and the menus were pretty fast to display.

The next day I picked up two cable cards from the Comcast cable store. Both were single stream Motorola cards. That evening I spent about 1/2 on the phone with Comcast tech support to get the cards activated (paired). I had considerable problems getting slot 2 to work, but the tech suggested that I leave it in for a while and see if it starts working before swapping out.

After resetting up the unit and rebooting, the second card started working. I then started watching some of the HD and digitial channels. At this point I really noticed the unit was slower than before. Menus took longer to come up and it took longer to change channels. It now displays a blank screen with a large blocky white area at the bottom during the channel change.

I am also experiencing the macroblocking issue. So far it seems to occur in the HD channels AND in the menus. For me this pixelation occurs in the lower 3rd of the screen. I also get audio dropouts.

I am pretty confident that signal strength is not an issue because this Tivo unit replaces a Comcast Motorola DVR and we never had issues with the Comcast box.

I am displaying on a 16:9 plasma and have the TV format set as such. I am running the 720p hybrid mode, and the setting that preserves the aspect ratio.

We'll keep using it for now and see how it goes. Right now it happens often enough that is beyond the mildly annoying stage.


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## flyacl

To add to my previous post, I called Tivo yesterday to report my pixelation problem. 24 minutes of waiting to speak to someone. Once I did get through they immediately said it was "_A knows issue they are currently working on_". When I asked about some sort of time line she did not have one.

Just FYI ~ Take care~


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## lavinah

I think it's funny how much these 'pixelation' problems are making TiVo to be the worst product ever. Please.

My HD TiVo is great. Yes, I have pixelation issues - less then I ever had with the Motorola HD DVR. Yes, the cable card installation was a PAIN IN THE A**... is that TiVo's fault, or Comcast's dipsh*t tech support?

I don't know about anyone else, but my 3 different Motorola HD DVRs all exhibited the same recurring problems:

Random freezeups, even with overly adequate ventilation (and added cooling)
Slow menus with inconsistent responses
randomly reordering my 'to be recorded' programs
changing what's to be recorded, ie: the 92 episodes of top chef each week that i manually delete and adding them back in.
oh... and pixelization.

so, in exchange, i get TiVo. it gives me a BEVY of features that the Motorola HD DVR does not, but two problems.
pixelization - which I had already.
slow menus

sounds like a good trade for me. further, i have confidence that TiVo will actually fix their problems... unlike Comcast that thinks their product is great and wonders why people mind having to unplug and hard reboot them every week.


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## chicodoggy

Having same pixilation problem but seems to be worse on 2nd tuner than 1st. Hope they fix it soon because my Cox rep here in AZ told me they would have TIVO software on their boxes by the end of the year! I just wonder if they will charge a Tivo subscription for that.


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## TiVoDoughBoy

jmpage2 said:


> You are a long time Tivo lover and so it seems that you are willing to live with a less than perfect experience because you like Tivo.
> 
> I get that.
> 
> However, try looking at it from another point of view.


Fair enough. As I've said, I can completely understand your frustration. And I don't know about the "original" Series3, but if I had paid $800 for one of those puppies back when they first came to market and had even a minor pixelation problem for a year, I'd probably be more up in arms than I am about my TiVo HD.

The new product makes it much more affordable and I personally would rather have it now with a few minor (to me) issues, with hopefully some fixes later in the fall than still be watching only "live" HD or recording only basic cable with my Series2. And call me crazy, but I never never liked cable boxes -- even back when I was a kid and bought my own first TV around the time "cable ready" was the hot thing to have, I went right for it. Frankly, the fall TV season will be starting up soon and I'd prefer to by TiVo'ing in HD rather than SD or whatever Comcast has to offer.


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## mike_camden

jmpage2 said:


> Those of you saying "it's not a big problem" are seriously living in fantasy land. Tivo is the highest priced mass market DVR product that is available today and the core functionality for playing back error free video is a *requirement* for that market.


I think it really depends on how severe it is. I agree with your statement that it seems like there are multiple things going on that may be causing this.

I've watched about five hours of programming on my TivoHD since the cable cards were finally fixed on Thursday evening. Some of that has been recorded content and some has been live.

A few observations:
1. What I'm seeing isn't a big deal to me. I see a very slight pixelation issue maybe once every 7 - 10 minutes. It is very minor and usually happens in the same part of the screen (bottom). When I rewind, I often don't see these in the same place they were before, which makes me think that there is smething going on with the CPU or other components being overtaxed causing this anomaly, but I'm a hardware guy, not a software one, so I might be in left field.
2. In the five hours I've watched, I've only seen one distracting pixelation event occur (during a Nat'l Geographic Channel program that I was watching live). When this happened I received a full screen pixelation, followed a couple of seconds later with another one and an audio drop. This was very similar to what I saw on occasion with my Comcast/Moto DVR, so I think that issue can be attributed to signal or somethign utside of the Tivo.
3. I do see pixelation in the menus on occasion. I see this most frequenttly when I sem to be "taxing" the system (multiple tasks very quickly, being impatient because I'm used to the responsiveness of the Series 2).

All that being said, as widespread as this issue seems to be, I do agree with you that it could be a significant problem for Tivo if more people are seeing issues like you and some others instead of the minor ones I've experienced. This is a mass market device, which is geared towards the upper end of Joe Six Pack. It's not aimed at the Tivo faithful, who are brand loyal and willing to give them time to get it working, like the Series 3 was. The market this time expects to plug it in and have it work. Already a nightmare with the cable companies dropping the ball on many, many installations (which many people will blame Tivo for since that is what many of their cable company reps are telling them). To have this on top of that could be very problematic for Tivo as a company.


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## coreyt

I now have pixelation as well. N Texas FIOS, 2 Moto Cable Cards. I am getting it in the menu's as well.

Strangely it's not as often or as bad as other people are claiming. I get about a inch wide bar across 2/3 of the screen on shows maybe once or twice in a hour and sometimes the lower right corner of the menus there's a large 1 foot area that goes crazy for a second and straightens up. Not often but I have seen it.

I've completely stressed the unit, setup downloads, told it to record 2 HD streams at once while at the same time zipping back and forth in a pre recorded HD stream and doing any number of things and both recorded streams never recorded pixelation in the times I was forcing it to do other things.

This is using Component. I'm thinking of checking out if the problem exists on HDMI as well.


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## jmpage2

coreyt said:


> I now have pixelation as well. N Texas FIOS, 2 Moto Cable Cards. I am getting it in the menu's as well.
> 
> Strangely it's not as often or as bad as other people are claiming. I get about a inch wide bar across 2/3 of the screen on shows maybe once or twice in a hour and sometimes the lower right corner of the menus there's a large 1 foot area that goes crazy for a second and straightens up. Not often but I have seen it.
> 
> I've completely stressed the unit, setup downloads, told it to record 2 HD streams at once while at the same time zipping back and forth in a pre recorded HD stream and doing any number of things and both recorded streams never recorded pixelation in the times I was forcing it to do other things.
> 
> This is using Component. I'm thinking of checking out if the problem exists on HDMI as well.


It happens on HDMI as well.


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## randymac88

My pixelation seems to be reasonable. Certainly not an acceptable level for a $300 product (the "Bentley" of DVRs), but it's watchable. However I have also noticed some Audio issues with the pixelation as well...not sure what others have seen, but from time to time I'm getting random pops here and there.


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## lrhorer

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't know what planet you're from, but I don't think it's Earth. We do things differently on Earth.


My planet of origin is not relevant to this discussion. My experience is. I am an engineer with over 30 years of troubleshooting experience in electronics in general and video in particular, and I am telling you what stands the best chance of getting to the bottom of these issues.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> On Earth we can "report" our problems to a bunch of outsourced script monkeys (who will ask us if our box is plugged in and if we have rebooted it), or we can "report" our problems here.


True, but in neither case will inaccurate, misleading, and incomplete reports help get the problems resolved. Indeed, they at worst hinder the process. At best, they are a waste of everyone's time.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Neither of which is likely to contribute much to having these problems fixed. But at least "reporting" them here makes us feel better.


If feeling better is your objective, I suggest you see a therapist. Don't waste my time or TiVo's engineering staff. If you want the problem fixed, then be accurate and thorough in you own troubleshooting and in describing the symptoms to those of us who may be of assistance, including any members of TiVo's engineering staff. (No, I can't be a great deal of assistance with this, other than to form an opinion of where a particular issue has its roots.)



Phantom Gremlin said:


> This forum is a support group for early adopters.


This forum is for whomever wants to read it, but it focuses on those who love TiVo, hate TiVo, or are interested in possibly purchasing a TiVo.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Sorry to be so cynical about it, but if TiVo really cared about our "reports", they would be responding in this forum.


There are very strict limits to what an official representative of a company can post. There are extremely strict limits to what an unofficial representative of a company can post.

That said, TiVo's technical support system needs a huge amount of improvement.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> They would be publicly posting guidelines about what, how, and where to "report". Or they would be emailing us privately asking the same information. I have seen no indication that they have done either.


Have you ever seen Microsoft do this? IBM? Dell? Mitsubishi? Sony? DirecTV? Dish TV? Any even moderately large corporation?


----------



## lrhorer

jmpage2 said:


> If Tivo is like most "software" companies they have programmers all over the world and it takes a lot of time to investigate issues and provide fixes for them.


That just depends. At work we are in the middle of two big software conversions. One is from a company called NetCracker, whose developers are mostly in Moscow. We rarely see a response from them the same day, because they are usually asleep when we find a problem, but we usually expect to get a response the next day. Bug fixes usually take between several days and several weeks.

The other software suite is provided by Nortel, formerly the largest telephony and telecommunications equipment and software manufacturer in the world. Some of our reported bugs have taken literally years to fix.



jmpage2 said:


> As Chimp says, for those of you saying you've had this problem for months with your S3 and are still awaiting a fix, I'd say that you were foolish to keep a box that obviously doesn't work.


I am not waiting for a fix. It's hard to know whether others are experienceing the same problems as I, or not. Recent posts suggest perhaps not. I have been experienceing the problems I have since 1988, long before the TiVo was even conceived. I experience the same issues right now on a seven year old Series I attached to a Pace HD Terminal, and I experienced the same problem years ago with a Zenith Z-View converter and a year ago with a Scientific Atlanta 8300-HD DVR. Explain to me again why I should blame TiVo for this problem or demand they fix it?


----------



## jmpage2

lrhorer said:


> That just depends. At work we are in the middle of two big software conversions. One is from a company called NetCracker, whose developers are mostly in Moscow. We rarely see a response from them the same day, because they are usually asleep when we find a problem, but we usually expect to get a response the next day. Bug fixes usually take between several days and several weeks.
> 
> The other software suite is provided by Nortel, formerly the largest telephony and telecommunications equipment and software manufacturer in the world. Some of our reported bugs have taken literally years to fix.
> 
> I am not waiting for a fix. It's hard to know whether others are experienceing the same problems as I, or not. Recent posts suggest perhaps not. I have been experienceing the problems I have since 1988, long before the TiVo was even conceived. I experience the same issues right now on a seven year old Series I attached to a Pace HD Terminal, and I experienced the same problem years ago with a Zenith Z-View converter and a year ago with a Scientific Atlanta 8300-HD DVR. Explain to me again why I should blame TiVo for this problem or demand they fix it?


What's your point about how long software fixes take? I happen to work for one of Nortel's biggest competitors and I'm pretty familiar with how long it takes to fix software. Typically fixing the problem is one thing, testing and releasing to production is another thing entirely.

Pixelation in Tivo menus shouldn't have a thing to do with cable signal strength. I've also noticed some weird pixelation problems where things like actors heads go completely macroblocked for a second or there is a macroblock smear across the bottom 1/3 of the screen. Neither of which I've ever seen from my cable boxes on the same feed as the Tivo HD.


----------



## thepcdoc

I am about to throw in the towel myself and return my box. I spent a lot of money having the cable company come out and replace cable cards when Tivo knew there was an issue with the second slot and didn't fess to it. I spent $300 on a box that performs worse then my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. The Tivo zombies on this thread who keep saying the pixelation is not that bad any they can live with, have fun. Try to watch a foreign film with subtitles and you miss the dialog every minute or so. To invest a large sum of money into a HiDef setup only to make it look so crappy with this box is not worth it. 

FYI

1.) Cablevision
2.) SA Cable Cards
3.) HDMI
4.) Pixelation / Macroblocking on Live and recorded shows (Too many, too frequent to count)
5.) Pixelation on Menu Screens

Basically a worthless and unusable device.


----------



## mitomac

Greetings,

We've had the tivoHD for about a week now. Bad macroblocking on all channels (analog,digital, HD, premium) - every 15-30s. Initially I suspected the signal level as it was only 70%. TWC came out and rewired everything including the groud line. Signal is now 93-100% but the pixelation is still there. Unwatchable.

I called tivo and the CSR was aware of the problem. They wanted to know if I was also experiencing macroblocking *without* the cards.

So I did the following:

NO SA cable cards -- tuned analog, no macroblocking
1 SA card -- tuned digital, macroblocking
1 SA card -- tuned analog, no macroblocking
2 SA cards -- both tuned digital, macroblocking on both
2 SA cards -- 1 tuned digital and 1 tuned analog, macroblocking on both
2 SA cards -- both tuned analog, no macroblocking

My conclusion is that there is a problem with tivohd and the cable cards. If one CC is tuning(decrypting) a digital chanel, macroblocking will occur on both tuners regardless of whether they are digital or analog and occasionally the menu.

The money question though, is this a tivohd defect or a cc defect? Right now I'm stuck on what to do -- return the the box for a new one and have to pay TWC another $86 to repair the cards. Return the box, go back to TWC, and count my initial $86 dollar card install a complete loss. Argh.

I want to believe in tivo and hate the cable monoplies as much as the next guy, but right now I am down $86 dollars for the CC install, out 6 hours of my time waiting on cable techs, and probaly an additonal 8 hours troubleshooting this problem and reading the forums. My time is more valuable than this.


mitomac


----------



## LowFuel

Just adding another datapoint.

- Time Warner (San Diego area)
- 2 Sci-Atlanta cable cards
- Pixelation every 10 to 20 seconds, bottom half of the frame gets corrupt. Much worse/frequent on HD channels.
- Also just had a problem where all digital channels now just show me a gray screen (will look for separate threads on this issue - powered off and re-seated cable cards, still happening).

All in all I'd say I'm pretty disappointed. It's been about 3 years since I had a Tivo, and I was VERY excited to finally get one that would give me the functionality of an 8300HD, but with all the Tivo goodness.

As it is, I can't settle for the current performance of the Tivo. I will try to give them 2 or 3 weeks to get things fixed, but I'll definitely be returning mine if things dont improve and fast.
The 8300HD was plugged into the exact same cable and worked perfectly for almost a year.


----------



## jmpage2

We need to add a poll to this thread to gather more data.

Cable cards or no cable cards. SA or Moto cable cards. Etc.


----------



## LowFuel

Agreed 100%!!


----------



## Chimpware

There already is a poll, it just got buried in the posting lists, I will bump it.


----------



## Guy Kuo

I've seen digital pixellation on my TiVo HD as well. It happens infrequently and is usually associated with rapid scene content changes. Blockiness occurs for a few frames causing square, light colored artifacts to replace areas of the image which are usually supposed to be small, bright image details. The pixellation can occur on analog channels as well as digital. So, I'm not so sure this is actually assocated purely with having two cablecards installed. Then again, having two active cablecards might do something to occasionally overwhelm data stream handling capacity somewhere in the HD TiVo

Artifacts I see are an awful lot like a data dropout to an MPEG decoder, but I don't see the characteristic green or purple blocks. Instead it looks like a portion of the image is improperly reconstructed for a few frames. The problem hasn't been horrible in the short time I've used the unit, but it's certainly not something I would expect to be rectified for the device to gain a good reputation.


----------



## holligl

I am currently running with the only HD being an OTA antenna. Don't get any more pixelation than with the signal straight into the HDTV. (pretty infrequent)

Comcast is scheduled out in a few weeks with cable cards. I hope it doesn't go down hill at that point, because right now it is pretty impressive compared to the old S2 hooked up to the HDTV.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

Chimpware said:


> Well here are some possible thoughts:
> 
> 1. We can replicate the issue in our lab.
> 2. It is software related and not hardware related.
> 3. It is a Tivo issue so those having it please do not troubleshoot further with your cable companies regarding cable card or signal issues.
> 4. We have a beta of the fix completed and in our lab it does remedy the issue.
> 
> Just some thoughts since you asked. Basically any update on progress as well as some detail about the source of the issue would be helpful.
> 
> As an aside if the problem were with their billing system software / hardware and as many people as have pixelation issues were not being billed monthly for service how quick do people think that would be fixed??? I seriously doubt this would last longer than 1 week.


the thing is that this issue is not so black and white as a logic glitch in a billing system. It could be both hardware and software related. It could be both Tivo and CC related, it would definitely be hard to say exactly where with so many places for a gremlin to set up housekeeping. There are just that many factors involved in bringing a clear picture to the screen. *What is obvious from this thread though is that the pixellation happens when a cable card is introduced and is actively streaming a digital channel to be recorded*
the fact that TiVo says it is a known issue and is not actively looking for more data tells me they have replicated it in the lab. Replicating it in the lab and getting to the root cause are two very different things. For TiVo to give out current thinking and then come upon a twist in the root cause after that or else find a different issue would just horribly confuse the situation even more. The best thing TiVo can do is let us know it is a known issue(check). That they are working on it (check) and then deliver a code fix instead of a press release.

so keep on adding data points here, never know when the right bit of info will make for an aha moment. However for Tivo to try and get a coherent dialog going with a large user base is just a useless exercise that will do neither side much good.


----------



## wizzy

I've seen pixelation both with cable cards, and OTA only. Currently I'm configured for OTA only (my cable line got cut, waiting for comcast to come re-wire it), and I see pixelation on the tivo menus at times. Connected via component to a Samsung DLP.


----------



## Chimpware

wizzy said:


> I've seen pixelation both with cable cards, and OTA only. Currently I'm configured for OTA only (my cable line got cut, waiting for comcast to come re-wire it), and I see pixelation on the tivo menus at times. Connected via component to a Samsung DLP.


Do you have cable cards installed in the Tivo HD currently?


----------



## randymac88

This is an interesting one...not sure if it's a problem or if its causing any issues, but when i go into the "Diagnostics" screen for the Cablecards, I get "Tuner 0", and it says it's associated with Cablecard 1. Then, I get "Tuner 1" and it is associated with Cablecard 2.

Seems kind of logical, but not really. Anyone know anything about this, or if its something i should try / can correct?


----------



## mitomac

No problem. That is just their internal labeling scheme -- card 1 is tuner 0 and card 2 is tuner 1. Imagine the look of horror if a cable tech had to find slot 0!

mitomac


----------



## Dr_Zoidberg

Here's another report - 

I'm using Cablevision in NJ. I have my older S2 attached via an SA cable box. I have my TiVoHD just below it, and the box and TiVo HD unit share a split line. IThe TiVoHD has two SA cards installed, and is running 8.1.7b. The TV is a Sony 50", and only has component video. It probably doesn't matter, but I have high speed digital cable and get really high performance from it (up to 6Mbit download). I do not have reception issues on the Cable Box/S2. My Harmony 880 controls both TiVos properly, too 

I get pixelation about once a minute, no matter the channel (digital or not). Repeated play of pixelated portions of recordings or "live TV" will produce pixelation at the same time. I also get stuttering with no pixelation, on rare occasions. I do get some menu pixelation, but that seems to happen only when I'm switching from watching something to the main menu, and it does not happen when switching between menus. From that, I'm willing to believe it's a result of the video/signal, not some major glitch in the unit.

The pixelation is irritating, but I'm willing to give TiVo some time to fix it.

I'm also waiting for them to allow me to transfer my lifetime, but for now, I'm satisfied, and hope they patch this issue soon. I don't care if it's hardware or software, I just want it fixed. Bickering as to the source is rather pointless, however, it'll be better if it's software, since that's patchable without any extended downtime. If it's hardware, I expect TiVo to make good, one way or another. I don't care who solves it, I just want it solved.

As a side note, one thing I do notice is that the audio output levels on the S2 are lower, but I noticed that when I was doing TTG transfers and conversions. At the very least, I will keep my S2 until TTG is available on the TiVoHD, but I'm digressing here...


----------



## Chimpware

Article covering issue:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/08/03/tivo.hd.launch.trouble/


----------



## lrhorer

jmpage2 said:


> What's your point about how long software fixes take?


The point is, many of these people are screaming they are going to dump the platform in 2 weeks if it isn't fixed. It is unreasonable to require a company to try to fix an issue of any sort inside 2 weeks. The people who want to send back their TiVo HD DVRs are free to do so, but they should not distribute hysteria by suggesting the manufacturer should fix it in 2 weeks, nor badmouth TiVo after the fact for not being able to fix it in 2 weeks, assuming some of the issues are in TiVo's lap in the first place.



jmpage2 said:


> Typically fixing the problem is one thing, testing and releasing to production is another thing entirely.


Of course, but that's not relevant to my point.



jmpage2 said:


> Pixelation in Tivo menus shouldn't have a thing to do with cable signal strength.


'Absolutely correct. The Menu is generated internally.


----------



## Chimpware

lrhorer said:


> The point is, many of these people are screaming they are going to dump the platform in 2 weeks if it isn't fixed. It is unreasonable to require a company to try to fix an issue of any sort inside 2 weeks. The people who want to send back their TiVo HD DVRs are free to do so, but they should not distribute hysteria by suggesting the manufacturer should fix it in 2 weeks, nor badmouth TiVo after the fact for not being able to fix it in 2 weeks, assuming some of the issues are in TiVo's lap in the first place.


Well again, you are off base, let's work back to front this time;

1. Tivo has admitted to many on the phone, including me finally, that this is there issue and it is software related (I hope they are correct here) so it is "In their lap".
2. No one is creating hysteria, people are just repsonding to a product that does not work properly. In most cases we don't care why, but it is helpful for piece of mind to know. I don't care what causes the problem personally, I paid for a wolring product and am paying a service fee to use it properly. It does not work properly, so either they fix it or it goes back. Simple as that.
3. It is not badmouthing to accurately post about your experience with Tivo. If they look bad in those posts it is on them. They pushed a product to market with known issues IMHO. If that were not the case how did they magically push a fix for the slot 2 issue in 6 days, if software issues take as long to fix as you claim.

So in the end again, this is a Tivo issue, they admit it, and if they don't fix it many people will return these defective systems within the 30 day period. I am hoping they fix it, I want to keep the untis I have, but I will not sit around with pixelation every 10 to 30 seconds on the screen after paying for the untis and paying a subscription fee. I will also continue to tell people about the issues if asked and encourage people not to purchase the system until this is remedied.


----------



## Globular

Here's a new symptom. Just this morning my screen pixelated, and the info screen popped up. My remote was sitting on the coffee table, untouched.

Weird.

How about an update TiVoPony?

-Matt


----------



## rickfriele

I have a TiVo HD with 2 cable cards through Cox connected via component and am getting pixelation on digital AND analog stations along with the TiVo Central screen intermittently.


----------



## TiVoDoughBoy

Chimpware said:


> Article covering issue:
> 
> http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/08/03/tivo.hd.launch.trouble/


Interesting that it's getting coverage outside our beloved forums, but sounds like they have it wrong, too, suggesting a couple of times in the article that it's just the SA cards.

I believe it's pretty clear that it's both SA and Motorola cards and not limited to slot 2. Might have been worse in slot 2, but it's happening for slot 1 and for M-Cards (which only use slot 1 -- I can attest to that as it's my situation).


----------



## wizzy

Chimpware said:


> Do you have cable cards installed in the Tivo HD currently?


No, I had to physically eject them for the guided setup to work correctly. Even if I selected "antenna only", it wouldn't remove the cable channels until I removed the card and redid setup. Of course, it still knows that I once had a cable card, as it prompts me to put it back in after reboots.


----------



## Guy Kuo

Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.

Still too early to tell if this actually solves the problem here, but it is very promising after several pixellation free hours. Previously, I was seeing it a few times an hour.


----------



## gespears

I just wanted to add a data point. I'm really disappointed. I have:

1. B software
2. SA cable cards, Cox Phoenix
3. 1080i Fixed through an HDMI cable
4. Optical Sound to my Philips receiver
4. Signal strength almost always at 100%
5. SNR at 36

I have pixelation on any channel. At worst several times a minute. At least several times in 5 minutes. The pixelation is bad enough but the audio dropping out is really annoying. It's really not watchable when it's really messing up.

Called TIVO support and reported the problem, got a case number and told them I was going to have to send it back if they didn't get it fixed within the 30 day return period. They said they knew about the problem, were getting a ton of calls on it, and to call to extend my return period if necessary but didn't think it would be necessary. 

I hope he's right. I can't remember the last time I had ANY pixelation on my cable box. I can tell my wife is pissed about it but she knows how disappointed I am so she doesn't say anything. She almost said something when the audio kept cutting out during the Most Talented performances tonight. 

Gary


----------



## gespears

Guy Kuo said:


> Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.
> 
> Still too early to tell if this actually solves the problem here, but it is very promising after several pixellation free hours. Previously, I was seeing it a few times an hour.


 I'm going to upgrade to a WD 500 this weekend. Do you really think it helped? You didn't change any of the parameters for the drive? I don't even know how to change them. Do you?

Thanks,

Gary


----------



## Dr_Diablo

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/14/tivo-hd-still-having-macroblocking-issues/

The more media coverage the better


----------



## Chimpware

Guy Kuo said:


> Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.
> 
> Still too early to tell if this actually solves the problem here, but it is very promising after several pixellation free hours. Previously, I was seeing it a few times an hour.


Not sure what you were seeing is the same issue others are having. Pixelation in my case is much more frequesnt than you were seeing.


----------



## aaronwt

Guy Kuo said:


> Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.
> 
> Still too early to tell if this actually solves the problem here, but it is very promising after several pixellation free hours. Previously, I was seeing it a few times an hour.


If the drive had trouble keeping up with the data streams then there is a problem with the drive. A 5400 RPM drive has no problem with several HD data streams. And these drives are 7200RPM drives. I had 5400rpm drives in one of my HR10-250 boxes. The performance was identical to the HR10-250 boxes I had with 7200 rpm drives.


----------



## mitomac

Guy Kuo said:


> Has anyone else who upgraded their TiVo HD's hard drive to a different drive noticed that pixellation has diminished or gone away? I put in a 750 GB Western Digital (out of a MyBook external case) and I no longer see the pixellation artifacts. I didn't try any acoustic management settings on the new drive. This might suggest, that in my case at least, the original drive was having trouble keeping up with the data streams.


I find this tidbit interesting. When I called tivo about the macroblocking last week the CSR wanted to know when and where I bought the unit. He also indicated that while they didn't know definitively what was causing the problem, but that it might be the 'harddrive' on certain units. I didn't think much about this at the time because for a CSR the term 'harddrive' could mean just about anything but the remote control (disk, cpu, tivo, etc).

I could easily imagine the following scenario for the defective units: the cable cards while decrypting/tuning digital channels occasionally cause a slight voltage {spike/dip} which somehow impacts writing the datastream to these sensitized disks.

Is anyone with upgraded units still seeing the pixelation?

mitomac


----------



## Guy Kuo

Left the drive parameters as is out of the box. No acoustic management changes (which would derate a drive from its maximum speed in favor of quieter seeks). Some more hours of viewing will further tell if this fixed what I saw, but so far, so good.


----------



## TiVotion

Chimpware said:


> Article covering issue:
> 
> http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/08/03/tivo.hd.launch.trouble/


Jesus. Too bad that's inaccurate. "The issue is not universal but has been reported by a disproportionately large number of TiVo subscribers". Um, how many subscribers does TiVo have - something like 3 million - and how many people have reported it here? Unless this writer has secret inside access to TiVo's support call logs or his interpretation of "disproportionately large" is different than mine, I think that's a poor turn of phrase.

He also mentions that Motorola cablecard users are immune, which isn't the case. No wonder so many issues get blown out of proportion. Idiot.


----------



## jmpage2

I upgraded the hard drive in my unit yesterday and am still seeing the problem, even in Tivo units. I did enable acoustic management for the new drive.


----------



## JimboDunky

I think I figured out how to fix the issue!!!

1. Put the unit in a box (don't forget the remote)
2. Bring it out to the car
3. Drive it back to where I bought it
4. Get a refund

I was giving it a chance, but on top of watching intermittent flashbacks of Tetris throughout watching shows (even when showing static shots with no movement) my unit decided to just reboot without warning yesterday. When I came home and turned on my TV, I saw 'Just a few minutes more' which meant my shows weren't being taped. 

NEVER had this kind of thing happen with my first TiVo which I've had for 7 years. 

What a joke this thing is. I give up. Goodbye TiVo!


----------



## jmpage2

Well, there's no doubt that returns are going to drive Tivo to get a solution out sooner rather than later. If this was a simple fix we already would have seen it rolled out. I'm still surprised that they didn't run into this in testing.

On the other hand my wife is totally falling for Tivo (I'm jealous) so at this point it doesn't look like ours is going back. I will report the issues to Tivo and if they don't get them resolved in the next month or so then I will expect them to work out some kind of refund, etc.


----------



## xxx

not sure if anyone has the same issue as I do, but I get (really bad) pixelation on 2 channels, and those 2 channels only, on tuner 0. I've tried swapping the two cablecards, no difference. I checked the signal strength, and those 2 channels have lower numbers than others (low to mid 80s vs mid to upper 90s on others). rebooting didn't seem to help. maybe I should give it one more reboot. or do something to increase the signal strength. anyone have recommendations on improving signal strength?


----------



## mitomac

JimboDunky said:


> I think I figured out how to fix the issue!!!
> 
> 1. Put the unit in a box (don't forget the remote)
> 2. Bring it out to the car
> 3. Drive it back to where I bought it
> 4. Get a refund


You forgot:

5. $86 in hole for cable card install.

Number 5 is what is keeping from returning the unit at the moment. I don't like these near hundred dollar learning experiences.

mitomac


----------



## ZeoTiVo

TiVotion said:


> Jesus. Too bad that's inaccurate. "The issue is not universal but has been reported by a disproportionately large number of TiVo subscribers".
> He also mentions that Motorola cablecard users are immune, which isn't the case. No wonder so many issues get blown out of proportion. Idiot.


actually I do not think the article blew it out of proportion. There is a distinct issue here and Tivo has acknowledged it and is working on a patch to go further than the Aug. 1st patch. TiVo knows it is working with initial launch impression of the product so I expct they are burning overtime on it and want to get it out ASAP.

So some details are wrong like Motorolla cards not having issues but the overall impression of a new hardware release having some issues is accurate. My faith is still in TiVo getting it worked out and standing behind their products to continue their line of great products with another stellar product. Right now that is a faith thing though and article is just pointing out the current reality


----------



## btwyx

TiVotion said:


> Jesus. Too bad that's inaccurate. "The issue is not universal but has been reported by a disproportionately large number of TiVo subscribers". Um, how many subscribers does TiVo have - something like 3 million - and how many people have reported it here? Unless this writer has secret inside access to TiVo's support call logs or his interpretation of "disproportionately large" is different than mine, I think that's a poor turn of phrase.


There are plenty of things wrong with that article, but that's not one of them. It fits with my definition of disproportionate. There's a proportion of TiVo subscribers who have HD, a lot of those complain of are reporting problems. That's disportionate.

I haven't heard of many TiVo HD subscribers who said they didn't have problems. There are a lot, a disproportionate amount who are complaining of the problem. Usually when anyone claims a problem is widespread, a lot of people pop up to say they don't have the problem. I haven't seen that. You don't need access to logs to get a sense of this sort of thing.


----------



## CosmoGeek

jmpage2 said:


> I'm still surprised that they didn't run into this in testing.


They did, if you want to call the release of the S3 a test. I have pixelation on my S3 which I talked to TiVo about several times. In my case the problem got better over time and for me the unit is now acceptable, but not perfect. They did offer to send me a new unit but otherwise had no interest in working with me to solve the problem.

I think that if they had taken the pixelation problems more seriously with the S3; really gotten down to the core of the problem, or problems, then maybe they could have avoided this repeat performance.

Look at the bright side, I doubt the next HD unit that TiVo releases will have this problem. Not after this B sample test confirmed the results from the A sample test.


----------



## JimboDunky

I'm writing to a Cnet editor who reviewed the TiVo HD about all of this. Took some pics to e-mail him also. Maybe if this issue gets exposure, you guys will get some help, but I've still given up.


----------



## Big Dee

I was literally thisclose to picking up a Tivo HD after work after making the decision to treat myself and making the leap into HD, but after perusing these forums, have to admit that I'm running scared. Should I sit back and wait? Swallow the bullet and pick up a Series 3 for the extra dough? Suffer through with my Series 2 in SD?

I've only been with Tivo for ten months and I can't believe I ever watched TV without it (never did the cable provided DVR thing and don't wanna, to be honest), but all this talk of pixelation, etc. is really souring my mood...


----------



## Chimpware

Big Dee said:


> I was literally thisclose to picking up a Tivo HD after work after making the decision to treat myself and making the leap into HD, but after perusing these forums, have to admit that I'm running scared. Should I sit back and wait? Swallow the bullet and pick up a Series 3 for the extra dough? Suffer through with my Series 2 in SD?
> 
> I've only been with Tivo for ten months and I can't believe I ever watched TV without it (never did the cable provided DVR thing and don't wanna, to be honest), but all this talk of pixelation, etc. is really souring my mood...


 I would wait until the clear up the pixelation issue, unless you are sure you can get an m-card instead of 2 single cable cards. If you can get a multi coard cable card from your cable company I would go ahead seems like the mcard people are not having the same issue.


----------



## Big Dee

Will do just that...anyone had any experience (or can point me in the right direction) to dealing with Time Warner Cable in Los Angeles? Thanks.


----------



## jmpage2

Getting M-cards is seriously hit or miss right now. Most CSRs and installers don't know what they are, and even if they try to specify that you get an M-card on the install order it's possible that your installer will only get the S-cards.


----------



## Chimpware

Actually had a show with so much macroblocking from last night that the recording eventually failed.


----------



## Big Dee

Just curious...are these problems at all prevalent in the Series 3 $600 unit? Slow menus, pixelation, etc.?


----------



## btwyx

Big Dee said:


> Just curious...are these problems at all prevalent in the Series 3 $600 unit? Slow menus, pixelation, etc.?


The S3 never had a serious problem with macroblocking, at least not to the extent that people were jumping up and down and getting mad like they are with the HD. I had some small problem with macroblocking with my S3, it didn't seem to be anywhere near as bad as the HD has it, and it seems to have cleared up. It may have been TiVo who fixed it, or it may have been my cable signal got better. I don't know which.

How slow is slow menus? I think they're a little sluggish at time, but all my TiVos seem to have been like that.


----------



## yunlin12

The S3 used to be slow in a couple of menu, specifically in search by title, used to have to wait a couple second after entering each letter. Also in wishlist, going into and backing out of show list of upcoming could be slow, some times 15-30 second for a long wishlist. Those got fixed in 8.3.

HD is still on 8.1, if the menu performance is similar to S3 with 8.1, I would call it annoying, but not unacceptable. And it hopefully will be fixed with the next software version.


----------



## btwyx

yunlin12 said:


> The S3 used to be slow in a couple of menu, specifically in search by title, used to have to wait a couple second after entering each letter.


I forgot about that, that was painful and slow by any defintion.


----------



## Guy Kuo

Spoke too soon. After some more viewing after the new drive installation, I can still see occasional "pixellation" Here I get macroblocking of portions of the picture lasting for a few frames. It appears as often as every three or four minutes. So, a new drive is NOT the solution.


----------



## gespears

I agree. I just finished my WD 500 gig installation. On the up side I can record 70 hours of HD, on the down side I'll have to take it back out when I ship this unit back. I still have almost as much pixelation and macroblocking. It does seem like it's not as bad, but that might just be wishful thinking. It's still too bad to be acceptable.

Gary


----------



## Brighton Line

Just got a TivoHD and I have SA Cablecards and I'm getting macroblocking on live TV, recordings and even appears on menus (Menus only slightly).
Since I bought it from circuit city, I'm thinking of returning it, problem is I will have to eat the $47 fee Cablevision charged for the cable card install.


----------



## mitomac

Brighton Line said:


> JSince I bought it from circuit city, I'm thinking of returning it, problem is I will have to eat the $47 fee Cablevision charged for the cable card install.


Be thankful, some of us are looking at eating an $86 install fee. TWC charges $42.95 per cable card!

mitomac


----------



## ZeoTiVo

mitomac said:


> Be thankful, some of us are looking at eating an $86 install fee. TWC charges $42.95 per cable card!
> 
> mitomac


Hold on until just before you have to return it then, TiVo is also dreading the 30 day return window and the moeny it will cost them.

They had good results with the first patch so seem to be on to cause(s) of the issue. TiVoPony would not say "making good headway" unless he thought that to be the case.


----------



## mchief

Got my Tivo HD yesterday from CC. Comcast Alexandria, VA showed up and installed the first card in slot 1 - m-card. Installer didn't have a clue. Spoke with headend to resolve problems with encrypted channels. Fixed in about 3 minutes. Shortly after hooking up the ethernet cable, upgraded to 8.1.7b.

Watched about 6 hours of various programming last night. SD and HD and saw only 2 to 3 seconds of macroblocking. 

So far so good.


----------



## gschoen

btwyx said:


> I haven't heard of many TiVo HD subscribers who said they didn't have problems. There are a lot, a disproportionate amount who are complaining of the problem. Usually when anyone claims a problem is widespread, a lot of people pop up to say they don't have the problem. I haven't seen that. You don't need access to logs to get a sense of this sort of thing.


I have the HD with no problems, the macroblocking is similar to what I experienced using the Motorola DVR and my OTA tuner. So not everyone is having this problem.

I didn't see the need to post since my unit is working normally. The people most likely to post are the ones with a problem.


----------



## btwyx

gschoen said:


> I have the HD with no problems, the macroblocking is similar to what I experienced using the Motorola DVR and my OTA tuner. So not everyone is having this problem.
> 
> I didn't see the need to post since my unit is working normally. The people most likely to post are the ones with a problem.


And posts like this ususally bring out a chorus of "no problems", so far you're a solo. It also sounds like there is macroblocking on your HD, you just aren't sure of the cause. (Like me with the S3.)


----------



## ktm450exc

I'm in the boat of having a bit of pixelation. Sometimes a recorded show is clear of it, other times a show has several hits of pixelation. But I'm also in the boat of waiting it out. If it's software I'm confident Tivo will fix it, if it's hardware.. same thing I'm sure they'll correct it.

My biggest peeve about about the TivoHD is the lack of TTG. Or rather the ability to download shows to the Tivo. The pixelation I have is bearable, annoying but bearable, and I can live with it for the time that it takes Tivo to patch it. But the lack of bringing shows to the Tivo, thats my biggest peeve and I'm pretty confident that it will take a very long time to get working. I'd be happy with a global copy-block on all the shows if it lets me bring shows to the Tivo.

In the end I've also been admonishing those I talk to about the TivoHD to hold off getting one due to the problems of pixelation, lack of TTG functionality, and the disabled eSATA are resolved.


----------



## Chimpware

b2 seems to have fixed the issue, at least for me, based on about 1 hour of testing.


----------



## GoHokies!

Good news!


----------



## Chimpware

OK may have jumped the gun on this...

Sorry TivoFanBoys, but I just had 5 instances of pixelation within the firt minute of Big Brother 8. So not fixed, but possibly reduced. It appears that the interval has been somewhat reduced, but the issue continues...

During the time it took to post this it has pixelated 5 more times. Sad


----------



## gschoen

btwyx said:


> And posts like this ususally bring out a chorus of "no problems", so far you're a solo. It also sounds like there is macroblocking on your HD, you just aren't sure of the cause. (Like me with the S3.)


I compared the performance to other HD tuners NOT because they're defective but similar. None were perfect, but 1 second of drop outs/blocking in hours of viewing is normal from my experience. Those with problems with their Tivo HD have actual issues, but I don't.

Please don't presume I'm having problems. It's working fine and I'm happy. You're suggesting I'm the only one?


----------



## btwyx

gschoen said:


> Please don't presume I'm having problems.


I think any macroblocking is a problem which needs to be addressed, but it seems you wouldn't noticed if the TiVo did introduce some more, not that I'm saying it is, just that it may be difficult to tell in your circumstance.


> You're suggesting I'm the only one?


No, but I haven't heard of very many. What I am say its unusual for only one person to pop up and say they're not having problems.


----------



## sniperlv

I got my HD Tivo Saturday. Cox rolled out on Sunday with 2 cards to install. Neither one of the cards worked. Cox came back out today with 5 cards finally got 2 to work, but have a lot of pixelation.


----------



## CCourtney

My personal observations.

Yes, I've occasionally seen Pixellation while watching HD channels.

Is it frequent. Not at all.

It may happen on 5% of the programs I watch/record. And when it does happen it's infrequent on those recordings.

Do I believe it was my TiVo HD at fault. Not at all.

I was worried about this, but I switched over to my SA8300HD and it was having the same pixellation issues as well. Signal quality from CableCo is to blame at my house.

FYI, I purchased my TiVo HD on 7/26 from CC and installed CableCARDs on 7/28 so yes, I've had time to make observations.

CCourtney


----------



## compulady

I have 2 Tivo series 3 boxes. The original $799 one which works fine and the new $299 which I just had cable come to add cable cards (cablevision) to this week. I am getting alot of pixelation and poor picture quality with the new one. 

I am using HDMI out and I have also tried component out.

I originally had the $799 box in the same place so I know it's not my signal. Is there a firmware update? Anything I should do? Should I return it?


----------



## mjsmith3

Compulady,

I had what might be the same issue as you. Tivo S3 was fine. TivoHD was ok on card 1 but horrible pixellation on card 2. Mostly fixed by forcing several calls and rebooting. Now I only have the minor pixellation issues that many people with SA cards have.


----------



## johnnylundy

Have we in fact determined that Motorola M-Cards do not have the problem?

Does everyone who has the pixelation have it on both tuners?


----------



## jfh3

johnnylundy said:


> Have we in fact determined that Motorola M-Cards do not have the problem?
> 
> Does everyone who has the pixelation have it on both tuners?


Not sure there's enough data to say that no one with a Motorola MCard sees the problem, but I have an Moto MCard on two boxes - saw pixelization before b2, but not after.


----------



## johnnylundy

Great news. I'm getting a TiVo HD before the TV season starts, and hoping to try for an MCard. Ditching the useless Moto 3416.


----------



## mchief

I have only one channel that is horrible - almost unwatchable. I have a SA cable card in the HDTV and PIP. Side by side the TivoHd is horrible - the SA cable card in the TV has no problem. An hour later the picture was fine on THD. This is the HD version of Golf Channel. I had problems with the SA8300HD - some macro blocking on most channels, but only occasionally. Some day all channels on the 8300 were unwatchable. 

I have a SA M-Card from Comcast, Alexandria, VA and 1b

I have had the THD for only 1 week and other than the GC have seen very infrequent problems. Once in 2 or 3 hours.

Last night I saw a >1 second burst on a recorded SD program, but no more.

I cannot explain the GC problem, on the 8300 this was frequent which I attributed to the channel because it would usually go off the air after significant macro-blocking problems.


----------



## Dr_Diablo

The pixelation has gotten worse since the latest "patch"... now the screen freezes on a few of the HD channels/feeds


----------



## navman

Got my TivoHD a few days ago and had the cable cards installed, without a glitch even though the installer just brought 2(S-cards). Have had a lot of macroblocking/pixellation issues about 1 a minute but that hasnt been my main issue. It has been the audio dropouts, saw "The Hills Have Eyes" recorded from HBOHD which consistently has a signal strength of over 90. Probably had the dropout happen every 5 minutes or so, very irritating. I know that is something I will not be able to live with. The much maligned SA 8300HD which I had for over a year never had any of the two above mentioned issues.(even though my signal strength was much lower when it was connected to the SA box, took care of that issue when I had the cablecards on the TivoHD installed) On the bright side love the tivo interface when compared to the SA box, always have and thats why I upgraded from Series2. Unfortunately if there is not a fix to these issues I see myself having to go back to the SA8300HD as much as I would hate too. I bought the TivoHD not because I wanted a compromise but because I wanted the BEST, and so far it leaves a lot to be desired...........
Both the pixellation and audio dropouts are reproducible on rewinding. When I first read about the pixellation issues, I thought it was people complaining that had nothing better to do(and were absolute sticklers for perfection) , but as you can see from the length of my post it is really very irritating and makes some recordings unwatchable, and thus my rant.


----------



## johnnylundy

Are these SA cards, or Motorola?


----------



## navman

hmmm thought i mentioned it, but i guess i forgot to, they are SA cards.


----------



## dtivofan23

Navman I Am Having The Same Issues I Hope Tivo Fixes This Because I Really Dont Wanna Have To Return This Box.

I Also Was Using A Sa8300hd And Didnt Have These Issues But The Sa Interface Is Garbage. Hopefully This Issue Has Nothing To Do With The 2 Sa Cards That I Using Now.


----------



## johnnylundy

It's looking more and more as if most of the folks having the problem have the SA cards.

When I call for my install I am going to see first if I can do a self-install with an Mcard, and if not, at least if the installer can bring a Moto Mcard. It's worth a try.


----------



## TokyoShoe

johnnylundy said:


> It's looking more and more as if most of the folks having the problem have the SA cards.
> 
> When I call for my install I am going to see first if I can do a self-install with an Mcard, and if not, at least if the installer can bring a Moto Mcard. It's worth a try.


Actually I have the problem big time on all HD recordings, and I am using Motorola Cards.


----------



## wbradney

Same here - Motorola (S) cards in my Series 3 on Verizon FIOS. 
But in my case I've only started seeing severe macroblocking in the last two weeks or so. I had similar problems back in Jan-Feb, but an update in late Feb seemed to fix the problem and I haven't seen any significant problems until early Aug.

This morning most channels (SD or HD) were barely watchable (constant pixellation/audio drops) on the S3 (both tuners), but all were fine on my S2 via the Verizon/Motorola SD STB, so I decided to try to do as much troubleshooting as possible before calling Verizon.

My default setup is as the Verizon techs left it -- line into a 6-way -12db splitter, 1 out to the TV room, where a 2-way -3.5db splitter drives the S3 and the SD STB, 1 out to the Verizon/Actiontech router, 4 others terminated.

I noted the signal strength reported by the S3 on all channels - the average range was 80-90, but severe macroblocking occurred on probably 75% of the channels, and for those channels the signal would jump all over the place, sometimes even dropping to zero/grey screen, or reporting "No signal on tuner 2".

Next I took the SD STB and the splitters out of the equation and wired the Verizon line directly into the S3 (I was a little wary of this since the FIOS signal is supposed to be so 'hot' -- but I was pissed off at having such a crappy signal). This improved things somewhat.

The signal strength meter now showed consistently 95-100 for almost all channels and no pixellation on those channels where the meter stayed solidly inside that range. As I went through all of the channels, however, some 20 or so still showed severe macroblocking after 2 or 3 seconds of being tuned (curiously, the first few seconds even on those channels were good, then it deteriorated to being unwatchable/grey screen after about 10 seconds).

Those bad channels were (on the Verizon/Freehold system):

67 SNY
102 SCIENCE
103 DISCTIMES
105 MILI
141 DHC
143 FITTV
144 FOOD
145 HGTV
148 DCHOME
169 BBCA
170 COMEDY
177 FOXREAL
178 FUEL
229 DCKIDS
408 HBOC
410 HBOZ
830 YESHDNY
851 HBOHD

Only a couple of these I care about, so I decided to put the 2-way spiltter back in place to bring the SD STB back into the mix, and the levels stayed pretty much the same, with same unwatchable channels. Only a couple of those channels I really care about, one of which is also available SD, so I declared a temporary victory and left the 6-way splitter and the ActionTech out of the loop.

A couple of hours later I noticed the general, widespread macroblocking was back, and now most channels were again crappy, although it seems not quite as crappy as at the start of the day (1-2 second drops every 20-30 seconds, so still unwatchable).

I put everything back the way it was to begin with, and now perversely only those channels above are bad again -- I'm getting 90 or above for most channels and they're rock-solid, but those same channels above are lousy.

Next step I guess is to call Verizon and have them come and tell me it's Tivo's problem...

I should reiterate that between the end of Feb and the beginning of Aug I noticed no appreciable pixellation at all.

Also, the pixellation occurs in recordings, and when rewinding the live buffer.
Never seen any problem with the Menus.


----------



## fullmetaljester

I had the base firmware out the box, had horrible pixel issues. However the latest update fixed it completely, been using it all weekend no problems. The lag between channels is annoying but not a showstopper. I do realize its more the tuning of the CC than the Tivo.


----------



## compulady

How do you get this firmware? I am getting alot of pixelation.



fullmetaljester said:


> I had the base firmware out the box, had horrible pixel issues. However the latest update fixed it completely, been using it all weekend no problems. The lag between channels is annoying but not a showstopper. I do realize its more the tuning of the CC than the Tivo.


----------



## richsadams

wbradney said:


> Same here - Motorola (S) cards in my Series 3 on Verizon FIOS.
> But in my case I've only started seeing severe macroblocking in the last two weeks or so. I had similar problems back in Jan-Feb, but an update in late Feb seemed to fix the problem and I haven't seen any significant problems until early Aug.
> 
> This morning most channels (SD or HD) were barely watchable (constant pixellation/audio drops) on the S3 (both tuners), but all were fine on my S2 via the Verizon/Motorola SD STB, so I decided to try to do as much troubleshooting as possible before calling Verizon.
> 
> My default setup is as the Verizon techs left it -- line into a 6-way -12db splitter, 1 out to the TV room, where a 2-way -3.5db splitter drives the S3 and the SD STB, 1 out to the Verizon/Actiontech router, 4 others terminated.
> 
> I noted the signal strength reported by the S3 on all channels - the average range was 80-90, but severe macroblocking occurred on probably 75% of the channels, and for those channels the signal would jump all over the place, sometimes even dropping to zero/grey screen, or reporting "No signal on tuner 2".
> 
> Next I took the SD STB and the splitters out of the equation and wired the Verizon line directly into the S3 (I was a little wary of this since the FIOS signal is supposed to be so 'hot' -- but I was pissed off at having such a crappy signal). This improved things somewhat.
> 
> The signal strength meter now showed consistently 95-100 for almost all channels and no pixellation on those channels where the meter stayed solidly inside that range. As I went through all of the channels, however, some 20 or so still showed severe macroblocking after 2 or 3 seconds of being tuned (curiously, the first few seconds even on those channels were good, then it deteriorated to being unwatchable/grey screen after about 10 seconds).
> 
> Those bad channels were (on the Verizon/Freehold system):
> 
> 67 SNY
> 102 SCIENCE
> 103 DISCTIMES
> 105 MILI
> 141 DHC
> 143 FITTV
> 144 FOOD
> 145 HGTV
> 148 DCHOME
> 169 BBCA
> 170 COMEDY
> 177 FOXREAL
> 178 FUEL
> 229 DCKIDS
> 408 HBOC
> 410 HBOZ
> 830 YESHDNY
> 851 HBOHD
> 
> Only a couple of these I care about, so I decided to put the 2-way spiltter back in place to bring the SD STB back into the mix, and the levels stayed pretty much the same, with same unwatchable channels. Only a couple of those channels I really care about, one of which is also available SD, so I declared a temporary victory and left the 6-way splitter and the ActionTech out of the loop.
> 
> A couple of hours later I noticed the general, widespread macroblocking was back, and now most channels were again crappy, although it seems not quite as crappy as at the start of the day (1-2 second drops every 20-30 seconds, so still unwatchable).
> 
> I put everything back the way it was to begin with, and now perversely only those channels above are bad again -- I'm getting 90 or above for most channels and they're rock-solid, but those same channels above are lousy.
> 
> Next step I guess is to call Verizon and have them come and tell me it's Tivo's problem...
> 
> I should reiterate that between the end of Feb and the beginning of Aug I noticed no appreciable pixellation at all.
> 
> Also, the pixellation occurs in recordings, and when rewinding the live buffer.
> Never seen any problem with the Menus.


 Since you have an original S3 and this thread is "Tivo HD Pixelation Troubleshooting" for the new TiVo HD units, you may want to check a couple of other threads that focus on the original S3 including:

S3 Pixelization /Macroblocking?

Based on everything you've said it sounds very much like you have a signal problem. The S3's processing ability is very sensitive to signal degradation of any nature. Splitters, coax cables and a number of other things can contribute to audio/video problems including macroblocking or loss of picture and sound all together. That's not to mention a new signal issue with your provider which will exacerbate things if what you had was borderline in the beginning. Best bet is to have Verizon come out and test everything, both inside and out. It may be a problem with their system, your cables/connections or your cable cards (which they can "re-hit").

FYI - TiVo's "Signal Strength" meter measures signal to noise ratios. A high reading may indicate lack of noise, but not necessarily a good signalthat can only be measured with the (fairly expensive) equipment used by the cablecos.


----------



## richsadams

compulady said:


> How do you get this firmware? I am getting alot of pixelation.


Firmware is downloaded and installed automatically...no action is required on your part.

It's likely that you already have the latest firmware for the TiVo HD which is v8.1.7b and for the original TiVo S3, v8.3.1 (which has been out for a while now). You can check this by going to TiVo Central (the TiVo button on your remote control) > Messages & Settings > Account & System Information > System Information and looking at the Software Version line.


----------



## mchief

I was watching the almost unwatchable UHD US Open Tennis coverage. Macroblocking is terrible. I have an SA M-Card in my THD. I also have a SA S-card in my TV. Using PIP I put the tivo picture split screen with the tv/cc. No macroblocking to speak of on the tv while significant distortion on the tivo. There is also a 2 second delay on the tivo when compared to the tv. Not sure what that means other than tivo may be on it's way back to CC.


----------



## mjsmith3

Still getting horrible/frequent pixellation on many channels. 2 SA cards. Tivo seemed to fix the Motorola card issue pretty quickly. I'm a little disappointed in that is has been a few weeks since then and this issue is still unresolved for me with my SA cards.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> FYI - TiVo's "Signal Strength" meter measures signal to noise ratios. A high reading may indicate lack of noise, but not necessarily a good signalthat can only be measured with the (fairly expensive) equipment used by the cablecos.


My Motorola cable modem (retail cost under $100) can display both a "downstream power level" reading in dBmV and also a "signal to noise ratio" in dB.

Please enlighten me on how the sub $100 Motorola product can incorporate "fairly expensive" equipment while a $300 TiVo HD can't.

The Motorola "power level" aka "signal strength" (NOT S/N) is also quite accurate. When I inserted a 2:1 splitter the reading went down by about 3.5 dBmV. When I inserted a 6 dB attenuator the reading went down by about the proper amount. When I inserted a 15 dB distribution amplifier the reading went up by the proper amount.

It isn't rocket science, and it isn't as "fairly expensive" as you say.


----------



## navman

Talked to tivo customer service about pixellation issues on my tivo hd. was told they released a new software a few days ago that should fix the issue for people with SA cards. On asking them as to why I hadnt gotten this software update despite forcing several connections, i was told something to the effect of "it is a rolling release" being tested on limited tivohds and everyone should get it soon. Was I being lied to or is this the truth. The new software according to them was 8.3, which I thought was for TivoHD's older sibling. By the way I talked to Cal, he is a supervisor.


----------



## lrhorer

Phantom Gremlin said:


> My Motorola cable modem (retail cost under $100) can display both a "downstream power level" reading in dBmV and also a "signal to noise ratio" in dB.
> 
> Please enlighten me on how the sub $100 Motorola product can incorporate "fairly expensive" equipment while a $300 TiVo HD can't.


Well, for several reasons, actually. First of all, there is a difference between "can't" and "doesn't". The modem does, the TiVo doesn't. The fact the TiVo designers decided not to incorporate a more fully featured signal measurement system has nothing to do with the fact the modem designers decided in favor of the measurement utility. We could have noses as sensitive as a dog's, but we don't. Willie Shoemaker could have been as big as Ed "Too Tall" Jones, but he wasn't.

Secondly, Your coffee pot could have a digital temperature readout, and it would not make it cost terribly much more, but it would cost a little bit more and consequently few, if any, coffee pots have built-in digital thermometers. Even though the cost would not be much higher it would be somewhat higher and the extra feature would perhaps be of questionable value in most consumer's minds. Was it a bad decision on the part of the TiVo engineers not to incorporate a more significant signal measurement system? 'Not really. Incorporating it might have been a slightly better decision, but then they would have had to use a different receiver than they did, which could have spelled other troubles of which we are not aware. It's unlikely TiVo makes the receiver. It's almost surely an OEM part delivered to TiVo's assembly plant by the manufacturer. It's possible it was custom engineered to TiVo's specs, but more likely TiVo simply purchased an off-the-shelf module.

Thirdly, while a poor enough signal level will definitely cause problems for a digital receiver like the TiVo, it is only one of a large number of likely culprits to cause problems on a CATV system, and probably not the most likely, at that, especially for a digital signal.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> The Motorola "power level" aka "signal strength" (NOT S/N) is also quite accurate. When I inserted a 2:1 splitter the reading went down by about 3.5 dBmV.


No, it went down by 3.5dB, not 3.5dBmV. A Decibel (dB) is a way to compare two signal levels. A dBmV is a specific amount of power. One dBmV is an amount of power equal to .0168 microwatts. A change of 3.5dBmV is a reduction (or increase) of .0298 microwatts, no matter what the original level may have been. A change of -3.5dB is a halving of the original signal, whether it was originally 20dBmV, 0dBmV, or -50dBmV. Inserting a 2-way splitter into an RF line will cause the signal level to drop by .0298 microwatts (+3.5dBmV) if and only if the signal level without the splitter is .0597 microwatts, or +7.0 dBmV. In other words, adding a splitter will change the signal level by -3.5dB, not 3.5dBmV, except in the unique case where the original signal level is +7.0dBmV.

If the unsplit signal level were +60dBmV, adding the splitter drops the signal level by -3.5dB, or in that case by 5.96 milliwatts, which is a drop of +56.5dBmV. If the unsplit signal level were 0dBmV, adding the splitter will again change the level by -3.5dB from 0 to -3.5dBmV, which is a change of -3.5dBmV.

Well isn't that the same as the change from +7dBmV to +3.5dBmV? No the change from +7dBmV to +3.5dBmV is +3.5dBmV, or .0298 microwatts, while the change from 0dBmV to -3.5dBmV is -3.5dBmV or 6.7nanowatts - 1/4 as much.

The change from +3.5dBmV to 0dBmV is 0dBmV. The change from +20 dBmV to +16.5dBmV is +16.5dBmV. The change from +55.5dBmV to +53dBmV is +53dBmV.

See the pattern?

A -1dB change frrom +60dbMv to +59dBmV is a change of +53.13dBmV. A +1dB change from +60dBmV to +61dBmV is a change of 54.13dBmV.


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> My Motorola cable modem (retail cost under $100) can display both a "downstream power level" reading in dBmV and also a "signal to noise ratio" in dB.
> 
> Please enlighten me on how the sub $100 Motorola product can incorporate "fairly expensive" equipment while a $300 TiVo HD can't.
> 
> 
> 
> Phantom Gremlin said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Motorola "power level" aka "signal strength" (NOT S/N) is also quite accurate. When I inserted a 2:1 splitter the reading went down by about 3.5 dBmV. When I inserted a 6 dB attenuator the reading went down by about the proper amount. When I inserted a 15 dB distribution amplifier the reading went up by the proper amount.
> 
> It isn't rocket science, and it isn't as "fairly expensive" as you say.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi neighbor! Thanks for adding your thoughts. I have the same little Moto cable modem; its a fine piece of equipment.
> 
> With regard to the cost of professional test equipment, a very basic combination scanning signal level meter & leakage detector such as the Sadelco DisplayMax 800CLI retails for $1495.00 without any accessories. Even the MiniMax 800 retails for over $1,000.00 and decent hobbyist models run about $500.00. Of course bench equipment is much more expensive. You could check with the Comcast office up the street to see what type of gear they use and how much it costs...but I suspect it's a little more than $100.00or maybe not.
> 
> With regard to how TiVo product development decisions are made, you'd have to ask them...Id wager it has something to do with profit margins however.
> 
> I took a moment to offer some friendly advice by suggesting that the OP contact Verizon to have them test their service. Based on a number of your other posts it sounds like youre pretty frustrated with the TiVo HD, and perhaps TiVo itselfunderstandable. But if you can, perhaps youd care to share your thoughts on what other things the OP might do to make things better as well? :up:
Click to expand...


----------



## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> FYI - TiVo's "Signal Strength" meter measures signal to noise ratios. A high reading may indicate lack of noise, but not necessarily a good signalthat can only be measured with the (fairly expensive) equipment used by the cablecos.


'Not true. The only significant measurement of the quality of a signal is the S/N ratio at the receiver's demodulator. Note several things, however:

1. The actual noise level includes any deviation from the precise hypothetical waveform produced by the transmitter. There may be a significant difference between this value and the value measured by the device in the receiver. How significant depends on the method used to quantify the measurement and what the actual sources of the noise are. These include noise in the original signal, amplifier noise, thermal noise, distortion components, common mode interference, superhetrodyne noise (generated by the receiver itself), and ingress carriers, among other things.

2. While it is possible to have a good signal level and still have a poor S/.N, the reverse is not true. One cannot have a good S/N with a problematical signal level. A good S/N doesn't necessarily mean the signal isn't lower or higher than it should be, it just means the difference isn't going to cause trouble, and bringing the signal level closer to optimum values isn't going to help the picture any. Doing so will only have a small effect on the S/N, and above the S/N threshold, increasing the S/N has no noticeable overall effect

3. In an otherwise perfectly functioning CATV plant, there is a direct relationship between the signal level and the S/N. If the originating signal is effectively perfect and there are no other significant sources of noise (including the receiver itself), then the S/N will increase exactly 1 dB for each dB the signal level is raised at the head-end until 3rd order distortion becomes significant. At that point, increasing the signal by 1 dB will *REDUCE* the S/N by 2 dB. Similarly, in a hypothetically noise free CATV plant, the only noise is going to be in the receiver itself and raising the signal level 1 dB will raise the S/N 1 dB until the signal reaches the point where thermal and superhetrodyne noise in the receiver are lower than common mode interference, at which point increasing the signal level 1 dB will *REDUCE* the S/N by 2 dB.

4. Unlike analog signals, whose perceived quality degrades slowly as the S/N drops, digital signals are either good or bad. The degradation window where the signal goes from being perfect over very long timescales to being completely unrecoverable is quite narrow, sometimes as little as 6dB. It's also quite low compared to analog signals. In order to produce a picture deemed identical to an original "perfect" video when viewed side by side, the S/N ratio needs to be 65dB or higher, yet the video is poor but recognizable even at 20dB. A simple PCM signal can hypothetically be recovered as long as it's S/N is greater than 6dB. In practice, however, even with the best equipment the stream will start to suffer drop-outs any time the S/N drops below about 12dB. HD Video, however, is not PCM. It's QAM. Quadriture modulation significantly increases the bit rate for a given signal bandwidth, but the cost is the S/N must be mich higher in order to prevent lost data. What's worse, the HD stream is highly compressed, so while the loss of a single bit in an uncompressed digital video stream isn't even noticeable, the loss of a single bit in an MPEG stream will likely cause a very noticeable artifact indeed. Even so, QAM receivers can be designed which operate extremely well at S/N ratios of 25 or even 20dB. I'me sure the TiVo receivers are not that good, but I would be very surprised if they required more than 30dB or at most 35dB S/N. Anything above that is just fine, and increasing it won't have any real effect.

5. Measuring the signal level is not difficult or consequently expensive. All it requires is a tuner and a voltmeter. Since the TiVo already has a tuner, all that would be necessary is to place a voltmeter circuit at the point where the signal leaves the I.F. section before it enters the demodulator. The S/N is a much more difficult parameter to measure accurately, but it can be made less so by making certain assumptions aboout the signal - at the cost of making the measurement more likley to suffer aliasing. That's in large measure where the caveat comes in about the reported S/N being good enough when in fact it is not. If this is the case, and it is due to out of range signal levels, then moving the signal lavels back toward optimum values will indeed resolve quality issues even though the measured S/N may change relatively little.


----------



## Dr_Diablo

navman said:


> Talked to tivo customer service about pixellation issues on my tivo hd. was told they released a new software a few days ago that should fix the issue for people with SA cards. On asking them as to why I hadnt gotten this software update despite forcing several connections, i was told something to the effect of "it is a rolling release" being tested on limited tivohds and everyone should get it soon. Was I being lied to or is this the truth. The new software according to them was 8.3, which I thought was for TivoHD's older sibling. By the way I talked to Cal, he is a supervisor.


That "fix"...b2 was released on the 16th, an failed to solve the problem for those with SA cards, some however with the Motorola cards claim some improvement


----------



## mike_camden

Dr_Diablo said:


> some however with the Motorola cards claim some improvement


That's not accurate -- every post on this board that I have seen (with the exception of two) using Motorola cards with the Tivo HD report COMPLETE improvement. In my case pixelation is gone, and I'm very happy with Tivo. For thiose with SA cards, I'm confident that Tivo will be taking care of you based on how well and quickly they fixed the issue for us with Moto cards.


----------



## ChrisPA

mike_camden said:


> That's not accurate -- every post on this board that I have seen (with the exception of two) using Motorola cards with the Tivo HD report COMPLETE improvement. In my case pixelation is gone, and I'm very happy with Tivo. For thiose with SA cards, I'm confident that Tivo will be taking care of you based on how well and quickly they fixed the issue for us with Moto cards.


To provide a data point, I am still experiencing pixelation problems with my FIOS Motorola CC setup. This is in direct comparison to my Verizon DVR, which I have not seen experience a problem (admittedly I watch on this setup somewhat less often, so it could be that I've missed an occasional problem. With the Tivo, I can almost always flip through the channels at any time to find a channel experiencing pixelation). BTW, my signal strength is virtually always 100% with SNR of 37/38 dB

Additionally, as I think I mentioned earlier, in the few days prior to switching over to FIOS from Comcast, the Tivo also experienced pixelation problem tuning unencrypted QAM on Comcast's feed (no cable cards).

Overall things are better with B2 software, but still not perfect. It seems that fewer stations are affected, and the average severity is lessened. But... there are still occasions where a given channels is unwatchable (which channel is not consistentl).


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> 2. While it is possible to have a good signal level and still have a poor S/.N, the reverse is not true. One cannot have a good S/N with a problematical signal level. A good S/N doesn't necessarily mean the signal isn't lower or higher than it should be, it just means the difference isn't going to cause trouble, and bringing the signal level closer to optimum values isn't going to help the picture any. Doing so will only have a small effect on the S/N, and above the S/N threshold, increasing the S/N has no noticeable overall effect


Ah...I stand corrected! Thanks for the clarification...I either got it wrong from my source, or they have it wrong, which isn't likely. And thanks for the additional detailed info...very good stuff.

Bringing understanding and solid information to this forum takes a lot of effort and caring; a very positive and appreciated quality. :up:


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

lrhorer said:


> The fact the TiVo designers decided not to incorporate a more fully featured signal measurement system has nothing to do with the fact the modem designers decided in favor of the measurement utility.


I respect your arguments for the TiVo not having a more featured measurement system. But I think the extra info could have been very useful.



> No, it went down by 3.5dB, not 3.5dBmV.


I understand the difference between dB and dBmV.



> See the pattern?


I need you to re-read what I originally wrote. I wrote that with a splitter inserted the *reading* went down by 3.5 dBmV.

Prior to the splitter the power level meter was reading -6.0 dBmV. After the splitter the power level meter was reading -9.5 dBmV. BTW, though completely irrelevant, right now my power level is reading 5.8 dBmV, with a 35.6 dB S/N. That's with a distribution amp.

The use of the word *reading* isn't my choice. It's in the message from the cable modem. The text is:

_Power Level
5.8 dBmV
The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new reading._

You were so anxious to exhibit your superior knowledge that you created a straw man to knock down.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> I took a moment to offer some friendly advice by suggesting that the OP contact Verizon to have them test their service. Based on a number of your other posts it sounds like youre pretty frustrated with the TiVo HD, and perhaps TiVo itselfunderstandable. But if you can, perhaps youd care to share your thoughts on what other things the OP might do to make things better as well? :up:


Yes I'm frustrated. Mostly because the product has so much potential. It's *so close* to what I want, and yet not quite there. Still, I'm keeping it.

As to what the OP might do, I agree that your advice was much better than my bickering.


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Yes I'm frustrated. Mostly because the product has so much potential. It's *so close* to what I want, and yet not quite there. Still, I'm keeping it.
> 
> As to what the OP might do, I agree that your advice was much better than my bickering.


 Frankly I can't wait to switch over to "all HD" equipment. Just wish they'd had the THD earlier...could have bought two plus had some left over for what we paid for the S3.  But that's how it goes.

Hang in there...I'm positive they'll get it sorted out, they always have.


----------



## dadler

I called Tivo about the pixelation problem and insisted upon an additional month of warranty since I was worried the fix would be coming after my warranty period. While Tivo said "yes", I was concerned that a phone rep. from Tivo could not (or would not) have anyway to send a letter or email confirmin the extension of the warranty. There is no way to communicate to Tivo in writing , in either direction!


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## richsadams

dadler said:


> I called Tivo about the pixelation problem and insisted upon an additional month of warranty since I was worried the fix would be coming after my warranty period. While Tivo said "yes", I was concerned that a phone rep. from Tivo could not (or would not) have anyway to send a letter or email confirmin the extension of the warranty. There is no way to communicate to Tivo in writing , in either direction!


Good idea. As long as they gave you a case number you should be okay.

TiVo
P.O.Box 2160
Alviso, CA 95002-2160


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## Chimpware

dadler said:


> I called Tivo about the pixelation problem and insisted upon an additional month of warranty since I was worried the fix would be coming after my warranty period. While Tivo said "yes", I was concerned that a phone rep. from Tivo could not (or would not) have anyway to send a letter or email confirmin the extension of the warranty. There is no way to communicate to Tivo in writing , in either direction!


I had a very similar conversation with Tivo rep. I originally was told by the Rep. that they would also extend the warranty on my equipment for the 30 days as well (I bought mine 2 untis from Circuit City). I was told that they would accept the Tivo HD units and refund my purchase price if the pixelation was not remedied within the additional 30 day period. When I asked for everything in writing I was told it was noted in my case log and the4y could not provide any written confirmation. I was not comfortable and wanted confirmation from a supervisor. When the supervisor got on the line they said there was some confusion and they could extend the trial period for the service, but not the equipment because I purchased it from another company.

So in the end I have nothing in writing and I hope that having it noted in the case log is enough, although the "misunderstanding" with the CSR has me a bit worried. My plan, if this is not fixed within 30 day period (as I decided to take a chance based on recent post from TivoPony regarding fix for SA Scard users) is to cnacel service and try to sell the Tivo HDs on ebay.


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## richsadams

Chimpware said:


> I had a very similar conversation with Tivo rep. I originally was told by the Rep. that they would also extend the warranty on my equipment for the 30 days as well (I bought mine 2 untis from Circuit City). I was told that they would accept the Tivo HD units and refund my purchase price if the pixelation was not remedied within the additional 30 day period. When I asked for everything in writing I was told it was noted in my case log and the4y could not provide any written confirmation. I was not comfortable and wanted confirmation from a supervisor. When the supervisor got on the line they said there was some confusion and they could extend the trial period for the service, but not the equipment because I purchased it from another company.
> 
> So in the end I have nothing in writing and I hope that having it noted in the case log is enough, although the "misunderstanding" with the CSR has me a bit worried. My plan, if this is not fixed within 30 day period (as I decided to take a chance based on recent post from TivoPony regarding fix for SA Scard users) is to cnacel service and try to sell the Tivo HDs on ebay.


That is concerning. At least keep a log of when you called, what was said and exactly who you talked to each time. Hopefully that would hold up in "TiVo Court".


----------



## Brian-1337

mike_camden said:


> That's not accurate -- every post on this board that I have seen (with the exception of two) using Motorola cards with the Tivo HD report COMPLETE improvement. In my case pixelation is gone, and I'm very happy with Tivo. For thiose with SA cards, I'm confident that Tivo will be taking care of you based on how well and quickly they fixed the issue for us with Moto cards.


I have a Moto M-Card with my TiVo HD. I have the b2 software. I have the following problems:

*Pixelation while watching live TV* - I've seen it on digital channels - not sure about analog. Skip-back will reproduce the same pixelation effect - suggesting the pixelation is getting written to the hard drive (though maybe the recorded data itself causes the TiVo to have problems the same way each time?). I even tried saving the live TV to the hard drive & rebooting, but the pixelation still happens in the same spot.
*Pixelation while watching recordings (but resolved with a reboot)* - I tried to watch a suggested recording of South Park last night but it was unbearable. *However*, when I unplugged the machine and rebooted, the recording played fine.
*Pixelation in the menus* - I've seen this happen a few times.
I'm very concerned. What's going on? Issue #1 seems to suggest there's a problem with my cable signal - but issue #2 & 3 suggest a problem with the TiVo itself.

I'm glad to hear TiVo is working on a patch for SA Cablecard users, but that (I presume) won't help me, especially with issue #2 & 3. Any suggestions on what to do? If this can't get resolved by my 30 day window, I'll be returning it, unfortunately.

I'm a first-time TiVo user, and this has been a poor and frustrating experience.


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## Brian-1337

Oh, also, I had an issue a few days ago where I couldn't watch a Live TV channel at all. I tried to tune in Last Comic Standing (in digital / HD), and it would show a second or two of video & audio, but then freeze the image and cut out the audio. Any other channel seemed to work all right.

Rebooting fixed the issue.

I hope someone can help - this is very frustrating.


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## jfh3

Chimpware said:


> When the supervisor got on the line they said there was some confusion and they could extend the trial period for the service, but not the equipment because I purchased it from another company.


Don't quite understand the logic here - obviously Tivo can't extend the return policy for another company, but I see NO reason why they can't extend the WARRANTY on the box itself, since they are the ones that honor the warranty, not the vendor.


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## richsadams

Brian-1337 said:


> I have a Moto M-Card with my TiVo HD. I have the b2 software. I have the following problems:
> 
> *Pixelation while watching live TV* - I've seen it on digital channels - not sure about analog. Skip-back will reproduce the same pixelation effect - suggesting the pixelation is getting written to the hard drive (though maybe the recorded data itself causes the TiVo to have problems the same way each time?). I even tried saving the live TV to the hard drive & rebooting, but the pixelation still happens in the same spot.
> *Pixelation while watching recordings (but resolved with a reboot)* - I tried to watch a suggested recording of South Park last night but it was unbearable. *However*, when I unplugged the machine and rebooted, the recording played fine.
> *Pixelation in the menus* - I've seen this happen a few times.
> I'm very concerned. What's going on? Issue #1 seems to suggest there's a problem with my cable signal - but issue #2 & 3 suggest a problem with the TiVo itself.
> 
> I'm glad to hear TiVo is working on a patch for SA Cablecard users, but that (I presume) won't help me, especially with issue #2 & 3. Any suggestions on what to do? If this can't get resolved by my 30 day window, I'll be returning it, unfortunately.
> 
> I'm a first-time TiVo user, and this has been a poor and frustrating experience.


Sorry to hear that you're having such frustrating problems. When you buy a new CE piece of equipment you should expect to have a great out-of-box experience.  As a long-time TiVo user Ive run into the odd glitch, but TiVo has always been able to tidy things up pretty quickly. Im sure they will be able to get these bugs straightened out as well. Were planning on replacing our S2s with TiVo HDs pretty soonso theyd better! 

I'd say that all of your woes could be attributed to the ongoing signal/cable card/software issues being discussed..._except _ for #3 (and the bit in #2 where rebooting will temporarily clear things up as well as the part about not being able to watch live TV at one point) which is more worrisome. If you're experiencing macroblocking (or any trouble for that matter) with your menus there may be more to it. Those kinds of problems are generally found in a defective or dieing hard drive.

I would call TiVo support, have them open a case and explain that part of the issue clearly. IMHO it's a good candidate for a replacement.


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## Brian-1337

richsadams said:


> I would call TiVo support, have them open a case and explain that part of the issue clearly. IMHO it's a good candidate for a replacement.


Thanks - I'll give it a shot. I'm skeptical about whether it's hardware related (given that reboots fix much of it) but I'll try talking with them.


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## Dr_Diablo

Starting a file "case number" with your Tivo would be a wise move... I recently purchased the Tivo HD... Had all the problems you now face... Returned it for a Series 3, problems haven't cleared up but with any luck the next "update" will resolve these issues.. maybe


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## Brighton Line

Here is what I face, Sept. 7th is the deadline to return the TivoHD to C-City (30days). The 10th is my 30days with Tivo service.
I did call a week ago and they refused to extend the 30days service refund period. Then the CSR talked to a "supervisor" and they opened a case, she said they would replace the box if the issue is not resolved.
I asked how can you replace the box when it was a software issue? I then got the reply that a software fix is in the work etc etc.
I'm calling on the 7th to cancel and see if they will extend the 30 days and warrenty period otherwise it is going back to C-City. If they do right I'll take the chance and keep the box and if they don't fix it I have a good christmas gift for my parents who are on Time Warner with Moto cards.


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## adam84a

As much as I hated to, I had to finally give up on my TiVo HD last Friday because I could not stand the pixelation (not to mention I was having problems with my provider and getting all of my HD channels in). It really is sad because it would be a superior product if it weren't for this issue. I probably would have held out a little longer waiting for the update but my wife had enough of not being able to watch more than a minute of tv without the nasty pixelation. Hopefully they can get this ironed out and I can try it again later.


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## cmajor9th

Well, mine's going back in the box to BB. I'm caught between two incompentencies.. pixelation from the TiVo and the inability for Comcast in Palm Beach Co FL to authorize the SA cableCARDs for all channels my digital channels in spite of multiple visits and pleas for knowledgeable help. (Maybe the same as adam84a?) I guess Comcast wins this war of attrition, and it's back to the 8300...


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## jbsails

I posted last week about pixelation with 2 moto S-Cards and the b2 update. I mentioned my signal strength was 100% and in a reply someone said it maybe "too hot". It wasn't something I even considered since the house already has a 5 way splitter, but I took the suggestion of getting a standard 1ghz splitter for $5 and dropping it on the line to the HD Tivo (essentially splitting it 2 more times). My signal went from 100% to 96-99% and all the constant pixelation I was getting on every standard channel has disappeared! I still get random pixelation on HD channels, but it is certainly watchable and only happens once or twice. I usually switch over to the standard channel and watch the same program until it goes away on the HD channel. I have noted that when the pixelation happens on the HD channels the signal strength drops to 50-55% on that tuner. Really the only pain was switch my season passes over to SD channels so that I was sure not to get pixelation in the recording.


----------



## jmpage2

jbsails said:


> I posted last week about pixelation with 2 moto S-Cards and the b2 update. I mentioned my signal strength was 100% and in a reply someone said it maybe "too hot". It wasn't something I even considered since the house already has a 5 way splitter, but I took the suggestion of getting a standard 1ghz splitter for $5 and dropping it on the line to the HD Tivo (essentially splitting it 2 more times). My signal went from 100% to 96-99% and all the constant pixelation I was getting on every standard channel has disappeared! I still get random pixelation on HD channels, but it is certainly watchable and only happens once or twice. I usually switch over to the standard channel and watch the same program until it goes away on the HD channel. I have noted that when the pixelation happens on the HD channels the signal strength drops to 50-55% on that tuner. Really the only pain was switch my season passes over to SD channels so that I was sure not to get pixelation in the recording.


Interesting. I believe it was mentioned that this hot level should only occur with feeds from FIOS. Are you on FIOS? If not maybe the level is too hot at your head end.

I wonder if anyone makes an affordable inline attenuator for coax as that would be a more desireable way of reducing the signal level than throwing in a cheap splitter (which is also kind of an attenuator, but probably -3dBm).


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## btwyx

jmpage2 said:


> I wonder if anyone makes an affordable inline attenuator for coax as that would be a more desireable way of reducing the signal level than throwing in a cheap splitter (which is also kind of an attenuator, but probably -3dBm).


Ratshack make a inline variable attenuator, basically a little box with 2 coax threads and a knob on top. It works for checking things like too hot a signal.


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## bkdtv

Tivo released a software update today to address the issues (incl. pixelization) with Scientific Atlanta CableCards.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365040


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## richsadams

btwyx said:


> Ratshack make a inline variable attenuator, basically a little box with 2 coax threads and a knob on top. It works for checking things like too hot a signal.


I think this is what *btwyx * is talking about...










It's fairly cheap but might serve the purpose. I used to use it to control the red push on a Mitsubishi big screen we had. I've never tried using it with TiVo and its low-quality might cause other issues, but it might work well enough to see if the signal is too strong.


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## bkdtv

jbsails said:


> I posted last week about pixelation with 2 moto S-Cards and the b2 update. I mentioned my signal strength was 100% and in a reply someone said it maybe "too hot". It wasn't something I even considered since the house already has a 5 way splitter, but I took the suggestion of getting a standard 1ghz splitter for $5 and dropping it on the line to the HD Tivo (essentially splitting it 2 more times). My signal went from 100% to 96-99% and all the constant pixelation I was getting on every standard channel has disappeared! I still get random pixelation on HD channels, but it is certainly watchable and only happens once or twice. I usually switch over to the standard channel and watch the same program until it goes away on the HD channel. I have noted that when the pixelation happens on the HD channels the signal strength drops to 50-55% on that tuner. Really the only pain was switch my season passes over to SD channels so that I was sure not to get pixelation in the recording.


If you are seeing 99-100 on some channels, your signal on those channels could still be too 'hot' (strong). In that case, you might even try adding another splitter. Or you might buy a better attenuator to replace the splitter that you added. Be aware that not all attenuators are created equal, however.

Verizon may have some splitters / attenuators you can try if you don't want to buy one.



richsadams said:


> I think this is what *btwyx * is talking about...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's fairly cheap but might serve the purpose. I used to use it to control the red push on a Mitsubishi big screen we had. I've never tried using it with TiVo and its low-quality might cause other issues, but it might work well enough to see if the signal is too strong.


Got a part number for that, by chance?


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> If you are seeing 99-100 on some channels, your signal on those channels could still be too 'hot' (strong). In that case, you might even try adding another splitter. Or you might buy a better attenuator to replace the splitter that you added. Be aware that not all attenuators are created equal, however.
> 
> Verizon may have some splitters / attenuators you can try if you don't want to buy one.
> 
> Got a part number for that, by chance?


The only numbers I find on the unit itself are "15-6 8" printed on the front and "11A00" on a sticker on the back. I looked on line and couldn't find it...not sure if they sell it any more.


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## jbsails

jmpage2 said:


> Interesting. I believe it was mentioned that this hot level should only occur with feeds from FIOS. Are you on FIOS? If not maybe the level is too hot at your head end.
> 
> I wonder if anyone makes an affordable inline attenuator for coax as that would be a more desireable way of reducing the signal level than throwing in a cheap splitter (which is also kind of an attenuator, but probably -3dBm).


I am on FIOS. The installer had never installed cable cards before nor did he know anything about Tivo so this has been a bit of trial and error on my end.


----------



## jfh3

adam84a said:


> As much as I hated to, I had to finally give up on my TiVo HD last Friday because I could not stand the pixelation (not to mention I was having problems with my provider and getting all of my HD channels in). It really is sad because it would be a superior product if it weren't for this issue. I probably would have held out a little longer waiting for the update but my wife had enough of not being able to watch more than a minute of tv without the nasty pixelation. Hopefully they can get this ironed out and I can try it again later.


Tivo just released the c2 software level. Early reports indicate that the pixelization issues are much improved, if not fixed.


----------



## jesseg

don't return your tivo HDs! i just updated and in the twenty minutes i've been watching discovery hd theater, i've yet to see any of the pixellation that used to happen a couple times a minute! this is really great! by the way, i have two SA cards with time warner in brooklyn.


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## bkdtv

Scientific Atlanta CableCard pixelization issues appear to be solved (eliminated), based on the dozen or so initial reports.


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## lrhorer

jmpage2 said:


> Interesting. I believe it was mentioned that this hot level should only occur with feeds from FIOS. Are you on FIOS? If not maybe the level is too hot at your head end.


No, signal levels which are too high can occur with any CATV plant. That said, most CATV systems are designed to deliver about +3dBmV to the eave of the house on the lowest (in signal strength, not necessarily frequency) channel. Most CATV operators are probably running their digital carriers 10dB lower than their analog carriers, so that would put the minimum digital carrier at no less than -7dB. If the lowest channel in the spectrum is significantly higher than this, then it's likely the CATV plant is not properly balanced, and the answer is not to place attenuators in-line, but to get the CATV company to balance the system. I usually have to have the local CATV company balance the plant every couple of years or so, although in a t least 2 cases it has been the upstream gain which was out of whack, not the downstream levels.

Take note what can happen is the equalization is off, not just the overall signal level. In this case the difference between the lowest channel and the highest channel is too great. Without an attenuator, the highest signal will be too high, but with the attenuator the lowest signal will be too low. After allowing for the difference in levels between analog an digital signals, the lowest shannel should not be more than 9dB lower than the highest channel. If your house is close to the amplifier, the higher frequency channels will be higher in level than the low frequency channels. Further away from the amplifier, the signal will begin to tilt the other way, until at the very end of the feeder line, channel 2 will be as much as 9 dB higher in signal level than the highest frequency carrier on the system. Doing a quick calculation in my head, I get that in a 750MHz system, no tap should be more than about 800 - 900 feet from the amplifier, although with the greatly shortened cascades allowed by fiber nodes, some companies might be able to get away with 1000ft feeders.



jmpage2 said:


> I wonder if anyone makes an affordable inline attenuator for coax as that would be a more desireable way of reducing the signal level than throwing in a cheap splitter (which is also kind of an attenuator, but probably -3dBm).


'Not dBm, dB, and it's more like 3.5dB and closer to 4.0dB as one exceeds 400MHz. This company has them for $9 for a pack of 4, which is a decent price. The thing is, you have to buy 4, and I don't know about shipping: http://sadoun.com/Sat/Products/S/20DB-Attenuator.htm


----------



## richsadams

lrhorer said:


> No, signal levels which are too high can occur with any CATV plant. That said, most CATV systems are designed to deliver about +3dBmV to the eave of the house on the lowest (in signal strength, not necessarily frequency) channel. Most CATV operators are probably running their digital carriers 10dB lower than their analog carriers, so that would put the minimum digital carrier at no less than -7dB. If the lowest channel in the spectrum is significantly higher than this, then it's likely the CATV plant is not properly balanced, and the answer is not to place attenuators in-line, but to get the CATV company to balance the system. I usually have to have the local CATV company balance the plant every couple of years or so, although in a t least 2 cases it has been the upstream gain which was out of whack, not the downstream levels.
> 
> Take note what can happen is the equalization is off, not just the overall signal level. In this case the difference between the lowest channel and the highest channel is too great. Without an attenuator, the highest signal will be too high, but with the attenuator the lowest signal will be too low. After allowing for the difference in levels between analog an digital signals, the lowest shannel should not be more than 9dB lower than the highest channel. If your house is close to the amplifier, the higher frequency channels will be higher in level than the low frequency channels. Further away from the amplifier, the signal will begin to tilt the other way, until at the very end of the feeder line, channel 2 will be as much as 9 dB higher in signal level than the highest frequency carrier on the system. Doing a quick calculation in my head, I get that in a 750MHz system, no tap should be more than about 800 - 900 feet from the amplifier, although with the greatly shortened cascades allowed by fiber nodes, some companies might be able to get away with 1000ft feeders.
> 
> 'Not dBm, dB, and it's more like 3.5dB and closer to 4.0dB as one exceeds 400MHz. This company has them for $9 for a pack of 4, which is a decent price. The thing is, you have to buy 4, and I don't know about shipping: http://sadoun.com/Sat/Products/S/20DB-Attenuator.htm


 Excellent info (as usual). Thanks! :up:


----------



## Unix_Beard

Well, I'm experiencing severe pixellation. It did it on occasion when I first got it but now its a regular occurence. And its not just a few times, its constant through the entire program making it unwatchable. It didn't annoy the hell out of me until tonight when I tune into the NFL opener on NBC HD and its completely unwatchable. I've recorded "The Departed" from HBO HD 3 times now. Each time pixellated and unwatchable.

So I rebooted it tonight. It said it was installing a service upgrade. Just as pixellated as before. The update made no difference for me.

My upstairs HDTV is showing the raw free HD cable crystal clear.


----------



## bkdtv

Unix_Beard said:


> Well, I'm experiencing severe pixellation. It did it on occasion when I first got it but now its a regular occurence. And its not just a few times, its constant through the entire program making it unwatchable. It didn't annoy the hell out of me until tonight when I tune into the NFL opener on NBC HD and its completely unwatchable. I've recorded "The Departed" from HBO HD 3 times now. Each time pixellated and unwatchable.
> 
> So I rebooted it tonight. It said it was installing a service upgrade. Just as pixellated as before. The update made no difference for me.
> 
> My upstairs HDTV is showing the raw free HD cable crystal clear.


Can you confirm on the System Information screen that you have 8.1.7c2?

Also remember that the new update only addresses the issue for live TV and new recordings made after the update. It does not 'fix' recordings made before the update.

If you are still seeing pixelization on new recordings made after the 8.1.7c2 update, have you tried plugging the TivoHD in to your cable line upstairs? There could be a signal problem with your cable feed downstairs. Recall that the TivoHD is more sensitive to signal problems than the cable company box.


----------



## damonnoah

bkdtv said:


> Can you confirm on the System Information screen that you have 8.1.7c2?
> 
> Hi Folks this looks like very encouraging reports, however this seems to be for th Tivo HD and not the Tivo Series 3. I'm running with the series 3 and still have pixelation issues. Any thoughts? Any reason why this update wouldn't be released to Series 3 folks out there?


----------



## bensler

I am getting awful pixelation (series 3) and have had comcast come out 3 times to fix signaling issues, and also added in some amplifiers. I am still getting pixelation issues and was hoping someone could help me with suggestions. Did you have to return the cable cards several times and switch out cable cards before you received a good signal? Tivo keeps telling me it is the cards!
TIVO also told me that it was a software issue, but has retracted now and said that was for the TIVO HD models, and not series 3. I have no idea what to do. I want to make my TIVO work, but I have now 1. switched the cards out 8 times 2. had comcast come 3 times to my home.

please help!


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## justinmm2

Had my S3 for quite some time now, but just moved and got CableCards installed (I only had one before). As a previous poster said, it's just unwatchable. I've tried playing with the DD/PCM setting, no video smoothing, native output, 720p fixed, etc. thinking it was a CPU overload at first... then I tried a different splitter and that helped slightly but it's still almost constant pixelation on both tuners... I even tried that Radioshack attenuator with the knob... I picked one up last year. As described, if I cranked it up to max, I'd lose all signal, but anything else and it was still pixelated.

SD recordings/tuning is fine.

I've noticed in the signal strength that I'm mid-80's, spikes of low 80s and mid-90s... but I keep "losing" and "acquiring" signals very very briefly. 

My Series3 is at 8.3.1-01-2-648. Is there any way I can upgrade it?

My cards are Motorola S-cards according to the diagnostics screen.

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks,
Justin

Edit: I'm on FIOS, and tried it going directly from the wall, with splitters, etc.


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## richsadams

damonnoah said:


> Hi Folks this looks like very encouraging reports, however this seems to be for th Tivo HD and not the Tivo Series 3. I'm running with the series 3 and still have pixelation issues. Any thoughts? Any reason why this update wouldn't be released to Series 3 folks out there?


Discussion of Series 3 macroblocking issues can be found on this thread.

The recent upgrade for TiVo HD's was to address SA cable card issues. That hasn't been a problem for the original S3's. S3 firmware was upgraded from 8.1x to 8.3.1 about five months ago. (There was no v8.2) There were reports of macroblocking problems back then but they've pretty much cleared up.

If you're having macroblocking problems with your S3 theres a good chance its a local signal issue. You should probably contact your local cableco. But again you can read more about it in the other thread.


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## bensler

Richsadam or anyone else out there:

I have a series 3 TIVO. I had comcast come again today and they put in an amplifier for me. I have a couple of questions:
1. Does anyone think it would be beneficial for me to go out and buy a "better" amplifier? He brought the signal up to +2.3 (not sure what that means, but he said it was good).
2. Is this a cable card issue? Maybe I just need to switch out the cards - never mind, that it will be my 5th set of cards that i will be going to try out.
3. Is TIVO doing anything to help us? I called and at first they said it was a software issue, but has since retracted and said that I was misinformed and that they are not working on any software updates for series 3 - just the one that recently came out for the TIVO HD.

Any comments are very much appreciated!!! I am desperate to get some resolution. Fall tv is on its way and I get quite annoyed when a show I was planning on watching is drowned out with pixelation
Thanks!!!


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## richsadams

bensler said:


> Richsadams or anyone else out there:
> 
> I have a series 3 TIVO. I had comcast come again today and they put in an amplifier for me. I have a couple of questions:
> 1. Does anyone think it would be beneficial for me to go out and buy a "better" amplifier? He brought the signal up to +2.3 (not sure what that means, but he said it was good).
> 2. Is this a cable card issue? Maybe I just need to switch out the cards - never mind, that it will be my 5th set of cards that i will be going to try out.
> 3. Is TIVO doing anything to help us? I called and at first they said it was a software issue, but has since retracted and said that I was misinformed and that they are not working on any software updates for series 3 - just the one that recently came out for the TIVO HD.
> 
> Any comments are very much appreciated!!! I am desperate to get some resolution. Fall tv is on its way and I get quite annoyed when a show I was planning on watching is drowned out with pixelation
> Thanks!!!


 There are a number of things that can contribute to macroblocking, audio dropouts, etc. with the "Original S3's". It could well be that there is something wrong with TiVo, but generally it turns out to be a local issue such as signal strength (a signal that is too strong can be as bad as one that's too weak), cable cards, etc.

Here are my thoughts about your questions and others will hopefully chime in:



> 1. Does anyone think it would be beneficial for me to go out and buy a "better" amplifier? He brought the signal up to +2.3 (not sure what that means, but he said it was good).


1.	Probably not. A better investment would be to get as clean a signal as possible to TiVo. Running a single, good quality coax cable directly from the wall to TiVo in the shortest way practical is your best bet. Modification of the incoming signal with amps, splitters, running coax through surge protectors, etc. can cause all sorts of issues. If the naked signal coming out of your wall needs amplifying, something is wrong ahead of that and Comcast should address it. TiVo doesnt need an amplified signal to work properlyit needs a good, clean, normal signal.



> 2. Is this a cable card issue? Maybe I just need to switch out the cards - never mind, that it will be my 5th set of cards that i will be going to try out.


2.	Could be, maybe not. Without further testing its impossible to tell. Are they SA (Scientific Atlanta) cards? If so, Motorola cards may improve things. Some claim to have gone through eight or more cards before they found ones that worked. Comcast may need to "re-hit" the cards you have. Rebooting TiVo (unplug it, wait 15 seconds and plug it back in) afterwards may clear things up. Running guided setup again might also resolve it.



> 3. Is TIVO doing anything to help us? I called and at first they said it was a software issue, but has since retracted and said that I was misinformed and that they are not working on any software updates for series 3 - just the one that recently came out for the TIVO HD.


3.	If this were an en-mass issue TiVo would be addressing it as they did with the THDs. Its only reported sporadically so I wouldnt expect anything to happen in the near future. TiVo CSR's are generally nice, but often misinformed and do the best they can. Others have posted saying that they have spoken to TiVo CSRs who have claimed an update for S3s is on the way. At the very least a new software update will be pushed out when MRV and TTG are implemented in November.

Thats not to say that problems dont happenthey in fact do of course. These issues have popped up on threads for about a year nowever since S3s were introduced. There was a flurry of them when software v8.3.1 was introduced (see this thread), however as mentioned, most of those folks (including us) have seen things improve. Now its usually a local problem but the fact is that some TiVos fail and have to be replaced.

My advice would be to document exactly what it is you are seeing when using TiVo - when it started, problems on all channels, HD only, only certain channels, time of day, etc. - as well as what work Comcast has done and what they are telling you. Make sure that you have all of the details down. Get back on the phone with TiVo, have them open a case and keep after it. TiVo has been known to handle a three-way call with cableco's to try and resolve the issue.

FWIW, we've gone several rounds with Comcast before they finally rolled a truck manned by someone that knew what they were doing. Dont give up!


----------



## Unix_Beard

bkdtv said:


> Can you confirm on the System Information screen that you have 8.1.7c2?
> 
> Also remember that the new update only addresses the issue for live TV and new recordings made after the update. It does not 'fix' recordings made before the update.
> 
> If you are still seeing pixelization on new recordings made after the 8.1.7c2 update, have you tried plugging the TivoHD in to your cable line upstairs? There could be a signal problem with your cable feed downstairs. Recall that the TivoHD is more sensitive to signal problems than the cable company box.


Yes, I have 8.1.7c2 and the pixellation is worse than ever before. Its on certain channels. Some channels look fine. Some are completely unwatchable.

I understand that the "pixellation" will also be on recordings and understand the difference between live TV and recordings. The problems I'm experiencing are on live TV and exclusively on HD channels. The "pixellation" seems to occur around moving objects are on areas of extreme color contrast.


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## bkdtv

Unix_Beard said:


> The problems I'm experiencing are on live TV and exclusively on HD channels. The "pixellation" seems to occur around moving objects are on areas of extreme color contrast.


What is the make/model of your TV? And what is your cable provider?

I wonder if what you are seeing could be due to overcompression? On what channels are you seeing this pixelization, and what sort of bitrates is your provider using on those channels?

Average Bitrate = (Recording Size * 8000) / (Number of Minutes * 60)

You can find the size of a recording by selecting it and hitting Info. You may have to page down since the recording size is at the bottom.

Some displays have image enhancement settings on by default that can make compression artifacts far more obvious. For example, the DNIe feature on many Samsung displays will have that effect.


----------



## lhntx

I have two series 3's. Both have 2 cable cards from Comcast (was Time-Warner until a month or so ago). One is hooked to a 1080i TV and the other to a standard TV. Both are having the pixel problems on some HD channels (the local NBC affiliate is the the worst) and are unwatchable most times. Sometimes only after a few minutes and some times after a half hour or so. Comcast has been out 3+ times in as many months and say that their signal is fine. TIVO says that it's a cable signal problem. Comcast says that it's a TIVO problem and that TIVO has admitted to them that they know it. Comcast even left me one of their DVR's to switch over and test - I did and their DVR worked fine whereas the Tivo was unwatchable. The cable signal drops below 94 or so when the problem occurs. Comcast says that an occasional dip is perfectly normal. Comcast says to tell the installer to reinstall lines, the installers refuse because "tivo has addmitted to them" that ther problem is on that end. Tivo says that it's not their problem. So I'm stuck in the middle with two series 3's that I can't watch HD channels on. I've been reading the strings about a new fix that came in last week, but I don't see any difference. Lots of techie answers about too strong a signal or amplifying, splitting etc. Any answers for us normal people that know very little about electricity, ohms, dbs, etc.????


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## richsadams

lhntx said:


> I have two series 3's. Both have 2 cable cards from Comcast (was Time-Warner until a month or so ago). One is hooked to a 1080i TV and the other to a standard TV. Both are having the pixel problems on some HD channels (the local NBC affiliate is the the worst) and are unwatchable most times. Sometimes only after a few minutes and some times after a half hour or so. Comcast has been out 3+ times in as many months and say that their signal is fine. TIVO says that it's a cable signal problem. Comcast says that it's a TIVO problem and that TIVO has admitted to them that they know it. Comcast even left me one of their DVR's to switch over and test - I did and their DVR worked fine whereas the Tivo was unwatchable. The cable signal drops below 94 or so when the problem occurs. Comcast says that an occasional dip is perfectly normal. Comcast says to tell the installer to reinstall lines, the installers refuse because "tivo has addmitted to them" that ther problem is on that end. Tivo says that it's not their problem. So I'm stuck in the middle with two series 3's that I can't watch HD channels on. I've been reading the strings about a new fix that came in last week, but I don't see any difference. Lots of techie answers about too strong a signal or amplifying, splitting etc. Any answers for us normal people that know very little about electricity, ohms, dbs, etc.????


Sorry to hear about your very frustrating experiences.  Comcast is right about the signalsthey wont always be perfect. But you clearly have a problem. Comparison of a Comcast DVR and TiVo is mostly apples and oranges as they employ different processing methods  hardware Vs cable cards. Comcast DVR's (probably Motorola?) use proprietary/dedicated hardware whereas TiVo has to have the capability of working with cable cards on many different systems and are more sensitive to signal issues. A little research will reveal that Comcast Motorola DVRs are notoriously problem riddenId take TiVo hands down any day.

In addition, that fact that you're experiencing these problems with _both _ of your S3's would lean toward the possibility that the problem is local. You didnt mention how long youve had your S3s but if its been a while and youre suddenly seeing problems with both of them; Id conclude that its a cableco issue and not TiVo as nothings changed with TiVo since last April/May when the software was updated. That's not to say that TiVo software might not be contributing, but clearly thousands of S3's are in fact working with Comcast service (which is what we have)...probably a number of them in your neighborhood.

Comcast is quick to say that it's not their problem if they can make their own boxes work but that doesn't mean that the signal, the cable cards or other factors aren't at the root of the issue. We suddenly experienced similar problems after having great service for months. It took four complaints and truck rolls before they sent someone out that knew what he was doing. Turned out it was something at the "head end" in our area that had been recently modified. In twenty minutes all was right again...so don't let them steamroll you.

As mentioned above, my advice would be to document exactly what it is you are seeing when using TiVo - when it started, problems on all channels, HD only, only certain channels, time of day, etc. - as well as what work Comcast has done and what they are telling you. Make sure that you have all of the details down. Get back on the phone with TiVo, have them open a case and keep after it. TiVo has been known to handle a three-way call with cableco's to try and resolve the issue and that's what I'd push for...the squeaky wheel and all of that.

BTW, the "fix" you're referring to was a software update for the new TiVo HD model only...nothing to do with the TiVo S3's.

Best of luck!


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## lhntx

Thanks for the reply. I've had one s3 since 11/06 and the other for about 6 months or so. The problem started around May/June and occurs at all times of the day and mostly on the local big 3 affiliates, but sometimes on the premium channels. THe last Comcast guy that came out argued and argued with me and refused to do anything saying that the supervisors had talked to Tivo and that Tivo said that the problem was on their end. I love my Tivo, but it is very frustrating. I've had to change all of my season passes to regular channels (instead of HD) since the HD channels are so unreliable.


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## Pearhead

Held off buying a THD for awhile to see how the software updates proved themselves. I picked one up last week and had the SA CC (m-card) put in on Wed. 

So far zero blocking with 8.1.7c2 on a Sony WE42655 with component cables. :up:


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## Unix_Beard

bkdtv said:


> What is the make/model of your TV? And what is your cable provider?
> 
> I wonder if what you are seeing could be due to overcompression? On what channels are you seeing this pixelization, and what sort of bitrates is your provider using on those channels?
> 
> Average Bitrate = (Recording Size * 8192) / (Number of Minutes * 60)
> 
> You can find the size of a recording by selecting it and hitting Info. You may have to page down since the recording size is at the bottom.
> 
> Some displays have image enhancement settings on by default that can make compression artifacts far more obvious. For example, the DNIe feature on many Samsung displays will have that effect.


Its a Sony Grand Wega III, LCD RP.

I eliminated a cable splitter and the blocking appears to have disappeared. (This may be misleading since the blocking happens mostly at night so I'll wait and see.) Its odd because I had the exact same setup before minus the TivoHD and never had problems. Cable 1 going to my cable box/Tivo and Cable 2 going directly into my TV which had a CableCard installed for the HD content. Never had any issues with the splitter.


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## jmace57

lhntx said:


> I have two series 3's. Both have 2 cable cards from Comcast (was Time-Warner until a month or so ago). One is hooked to a 1080i TV and the other to a standard TV. Both are having the pixel problems on some HD channels (the local NBC affiliate is the the worst) and are unwatchable most times. Sometimes only after a few minutes and some times after a half hour or so.


You must be in Houston like me...exactly the issues I have been having for months.

The sad thing is, that we are using our dual tuners to record one HD version and one SD version of important shows. We can't trust it not to pixellate. <sigh>

Jim


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## johnnylundy

I just ordered my TiVo HD. It will be delivered sometime next week. I waited as long as I could, but I need a working DVR for the new season and this Moto 3416 is a piece of junk.

Is pretty much everyone with the HD and Motorola CableCARDs now up and running OK?

I was planning to request an M-Card from Comcast. Any reason to be insistent on that, or do the single cards work OK in slot 2 now?

Cheers, Johnny


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## Unix_Beard

Well, I was wrong. The blocking or pixellation is back. Its really bad today for college football, of course.

I turn on ABCHD on the TivoHD and its horribly pixellated. I go to the next room and look at the same channel through a built in HD tuner and absolutely crystal clear.

It is DEFINITELY the TivoHD. Now what? This sucks.


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## mazman

Unix_Beard said:


> Well, I was wrong. The blocking or pixellation is back. Its really bad today for college football, of course.
> 
> I turn on ABCHD on the TivoHD and its horribly pixellated. I go to the next room and look at the same channel through a built in HD tuner and absolutely crystal clear.
> 
> It is DEFINITELY the TivoHD. Now what? This sucks.


What type of Cablecard is in your TiVo?


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## jgerry

My new TivoHD doesn't even have cablecards yet, waiting on Comcast to come out for that. So I'm running it with OTA HD via antenna + QAM. Software version is current.

I'm getting the pixelization issue on OTA HD recordings. It's definitely in the recording as going back and replaying the affected section produces the same pixelization each time. The problem is sporadic. I'd say it's occurring about 15-20 times an hour, and each time I lose between 1-5 seconds of programming. The longer dropouts are very frustrating. I also lose audio most of the time as well as video. 

I've checked the signal levels. Both are between 89 - 99. S/N ratio floats around 29-30. 

What's a reasonable S/N ratio for OTA HD? I haven't seen that mentioned yet in this thread.


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## bkdtv

jgerry said:


> I'm getting the pixelization issue on OTA HD recordings. It's definitely in the recording as going back and replaying the affected section produces the same pixelization each time. The problem is sporadic. I'd say it's occurring about 15-20 times an hour, and each time I lose between 1-5 seconds of programming. The longer dropouts are very frustrating. I also lose audio most of the time as well as video.
> 
> I've checked the signal levels. Both are between 89 - 99. S/N ratio floats around 29-30.


Sounds like multipath. My signal levels are stable, within +/- 1. I can't check SNR right now.

What antenna are you using?


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## jgerry

bkdtv said:


> Sounds like multipath. My signal levels are stable, within +/- 1. I can't check SNR right now.
> 
> What antenna are you using?


I have a super cheap antenna from Radio Shack. I think I literally paid $6 for it.










One of the tall extensions is broken off too. But I've never had any issues using it connected directly to my TV. I also live inside the city limits where the signals are strong.

I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a better antenna and try that. What's a good choice, preferably something I can pick up at Radio Shack or Best Buy? I do like the idea of using OTA for network HD recording since I feel like those look far better than what Comcast re-compresses and sends me over cable.


----------



## blhirsch

Well, I'm having similar issues. ESPNHD is completely unwatchable. It's fine on the other TV with the Verizon DVR.

I'm not sure what my next step is because it seems clear that the problem is Tivo and not Verizon. I'm remiss to stay on hold with them and open a trouble ticket when I'm not sure there's anything they can do.

FTR, it's a TivoHD with two moto s-cards on Verizon FiosTV. c2 software.

There may be other channels that are having this problem, I have yet to determine the extent of it.


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## ChrisPA

An update to my situation: I have FIOS and have had pixelation problems on certain HD and SD channels. My Verizon HD PVR has had very, very few problems with the same channels. Last week, after the Verizon tech came and went without helping me (he said the signal levels were fine), I brought the two boxes together and swapped the cable input back and forth. The TivoHD was definitely having pixelation issues when the Verizon box was not. 

I then called Tivo, who had me bring up the signal strength meter, which was fluctuating wildly between 50 and 75. They said 95 is the level you need to get a solid picture. So... I called Verizon back and told them what was happening and that the tech told me the signals were fine, but my Tivo (and Panasonic TV) said otherwise. They apologized many times and were going to have another tech remotely check out my box and call me back. 

I haven't heard back yet, and doubted they could do much remotely, but lo and behold, last night my problem channels are suddenly in the upper 90s and the Tivo is no longer pixelating. 

Its still too early to be sure things are corrected, but I'm beginning to draw a few conclusions:

1. the tuner in the TivoHD is not as robust to poor signal level as the Verizon DVR.
2. the signal levels for stations vary wildly across the band
3. if Verizon/Comcast/etc is going to rent CableCards to receive their content (and the FCC says they have to), they need to provide sufficient signal strength for them to be tuned reliable by units made by Tivo, Panasonic, etc. My problems (at least after the most recent Tivo software updates) seem to have been caused by signal strength

(as an additional data point, with a CC in my Panasonic TV, it also experienced difficulties with the same stations. However, unlike the Tivo, it generally just sets the screen to black rather than show the pixelated video when the signal strength is too low)


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## BobCamp1

ChrisPA said:


> Its still too early to be sure things are corrected, but I'm beginning to draw a few conclusions:
> 
> 1. the tuner in the TivoHD is not as robust to poor signal level as the Verizon DVR.
> 2. the signal levels for stations vary wildly across the band
> 3. if Verizon/Comcast/etc is going to rent CableCards to receive their content (and the FCC says they have to), they need to provide sufficient signal strength for them to be tuned reliable by units made by Tivo, Panasonic, etc. My problems (at least after the most recent Tivo software updates) seem to have been caused by signal strength


1. If Tivo is expecting a consistent signal level of 95 or higher, that explains why they are having problems out in the field. That's almost unreasonable, but not quite. Your service provider, especially FIOS, should be able to provide it after some tweaking. But don't expect it to work out of the box.
2. Yes, in some areas it may be difficult to get that high a signal for every single channel. It could take a lot of tweaking. 
3. Verizon is currently exempt from the CableCard regulations. Therefore, Tivos are not officially supported on Verizon FIOS. Verizon knows they will have to supply CableCards in the future, so they are beta testing them right now. Since both companies share many customers, they are unofficially supporting each other very well.


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## BillL

Has anyone posted a video of their pixilation problems? I was considering putting one out there with my motorola box side-by-side showing no pixilation. That would quiet some of the naysayers.


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## bkdtv

blhirsch said:


> Well, I'm having similar issues. ESPNHD is completely unwatchable. It's fine on the other TV with the Verizon DVR.
> 
> I'm not sure what my next step is because it seems clear that the problem is Tivo and not Verizon. I'm remiss to stay on hold with them and open a trouble ticket when I'm not sure there's anything they can do.
> 
> FTR, it's a TivoHD with two moto s-cards on Verizon FiosTV. c2 software.
> 
> There may be other channels that are having this problem, I have yet to determine the extent of it.


Are you in the DE/PA area? FiOS users have been reporting issues with ESPN-HD and ESPN-HD in those markets for the last week, even with the Motorola boxes.


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## bkdtv

ChrisPA said:


> I then called Tivo, who had me bring up the signal strength meter, which was fluctuating wildly between 50 and 75. They said 95 is the level you need to get a solid picture. So... I called Verizon back and told them what was happening and that the tech told me the signals were fine, but my Tivo (and Panasonic TV) said otherwise. They apologized many times and were going to have another tech remotely check out my box and call me back.
> 
> I haven't heard back yet, and doubted they could do much remotely, but lo and behold, last night my problem channels are suddenly in the upper 90s and the Tivo is no longer pixelating.
> 
> Its still too early to be sure things are corrected, but I'm beginning to draw a few conclusions:
> 
> 1. the tuner in the TivoHD is not as robust to poor signal level as the Verizon DVR.
> 2. the signal levels for stations vary wildly across the band
> 3. if Verizon/Comcast/etc is going to rent CableCards to receive their content (and the FCC says they have to), they need to provide sufficient signal strength for them to be tuned reliable by units made by Tivo, Panasonic, etc. My problems (at least after the most recent Tivo software updates) seem to have been caused by signal strength


This wide signal variation -- accompanied by pixelization -- can also result when your FiOS signal is too 'hot' (strong). You might try sticking a splitter or attenuator between the coax and your Tivo to reduce the signal strength.


----------



## blhirsch

bkdtv said:


> Are you in the DE/PA area? FiOS users have been reporting issues with ESPN-HD and ESPN-HD in those markets for the last week, even with the Motorola boxes.


That's exactly where I am. Interestingly, it seems to have largely resolved, but I haven't watched it for terribly long to make sure.

Unfortunately, my Comedy Central was all wonky last night. You can mess with my Sports Center but woe to the person who messes with my Daily Show.

I'm getting a little frustrated because I NEVER had these problems with DirecTV. It's lending an air of unpredictability to it, and I didn't sign up for that.


----------



## randymac88

Has anyone on this board a) received the new 9.1 firmware update, and b) noticed an increase in pixelation? I ask as, last night I was watching and saw more pixelation than I had in previous weeks since the "c" update. Not sure whether I got the 9.1 update or not, but it was noticeable. I'll have to check my firmware when I get home today.


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## kpepling

I noticed some bad pixelation on ESPNHD tonight. I tested the signal strength and it was a solid 97. I noticed that I had no problems with the picture while I was on that menu. After that I was able to have both cablecards tuned to ESPNHD and saw that I was only getting problems with one of the cards. Does that mean that I have a bad cablecard?


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## richsadams

kpepling said:


> I noticed some bad pixelation on ESPNHD tonight. I tested the signal strength and it was a solid 97. I noticed that I had no problems with the picture while I was on that menu. After that I was able to have both cablecards tuned to ESPNHD and saw that I was only getting problems with one of the cards. Does that mean that I have a bad cablecard?


Good chance that there's a least an issue with the CC's. Just a wild guess, but is the "problem child" is in slot #2?


----------



## kpepling

It is slot #2 . Does that mean anything? As far as I can tell it doesn't always have a problem. I'm going to look at it more closely tonight to verify that though.


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## richsadams

kpepling said:


> It is slot #2 . Does that mean anything? As far as I can tell it doesn't always have a problem. I'm going to look at it more closely tonight to verify that though.


Ah ha! My theory holds. I rule! 

It seems like most of the posts about CC problems highlight the worst offenders as being loaded in slot #2 for some reason...even when the cards are exchanged with each other.

I've no idea why (likely explained by some high-tech processing jargon), but based on absolutely unscientific evidence culled from massive input here on the forum (at _least _ a dozen posts or so), it appears programs tuned to channels using the CC in slot #2 on the TiVo S3 and in particular TiVo HD have a greater chance of poor PQ if there's even a hint of a problem with the installed cable cards. Some folks have gone through three or four sets of CC's before things improved. 

Seriously, hope it gets straightened out...I know how frustrating these sorts of things can be!


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## cwoody222

I have a S3 (not a HD) running the new 9.x software. I have never had CableCARDs. I'm not using QAM. I get my HD via OTA only.

Last year (my first year with OTA) I would notice minor pixelations here and there... due to loss of signal during bad weather, etc. Lately I'm seeing pixelation that looks... different.

Instead of just little blurps of pixelation here and there on the screen, now the entire screen is almost gone. I can't quite explain it but it is definately different than signal loss.

I only started to notice it after 9.x but that could just be because I'm watching more HD content this week (fall premieres). But again, I NEVER saw this at all last year. I'm worried pixelation is happening on OTA stations now, not just CableCARDs! Strangely, so far, I've only seen this on one channel. But I saw it on consecutive nights so I can't quite blame weather-induced signal loss.

I took a picture of what I'm seeing. Is this what the pixelation discussed here and elsewhere in regards to CableCARDs looks like?


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## johnnylundy

Installed my 2 single-stream Motorola CableCARDs this morning in my new TiVo HD. (TiVo HD needs its own forum!). As expected, I had to walk the Comcast installer through it, to make sure he didn't shove both cards in at once or get freaked out by the 161-4 error code, or remove a card while it was getting read or updated.

All went smoothly and so far, after just a few minutes of viewing, I have no pixelation. If I do start to get it I plan to

- make sure I am using card slot 1
- use an HDMI cable instead of component
- check the signal levels
- remove the splitter I have that is still going to the Moto 3416 that I am keeping in case I have to return the TiVo HD.

Will update on my experience.

QUESTION: are the TiVo menus supposed to be 16:9 stretched horizontally? My TiVo HD seems to switch itself to 16:9 to display TiVo Central and all of the supporting menus. I have not found a combination of TiVo aspect/signal and TV settings that changes this.


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## cwoody222

In Settings there's a Display option to tell TiVo you have a a 16x9 set. In another menu you can set the output type (1080i, etc).

Even set at 16x9 the menus are still stretch a bit. Some of the on-screen graphics (like the TiVo guy in the upper left) won't look stretched on 16x9. But on-screen text and other graphics will still be stretched. They don't have a whole 'nother set of menus for widescreen sets.


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## mazman

cwoody222 said:


> I took a picture of what I'm seeing. Is this what the pixelation discussed here and elsewhere in regards to CableCARDs looks like?


That's how it looks for me.


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## cwoody222

Yikes! TiVo... I think we have the dreaded pixelation problem bleeding into OTA on 9.x! Boo!


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## stmckin

I'm using Moto cards in the S3 and had intermittent pixelation on a couple HD channels only.... 

using the S3 cable strength meter I saw that level was low on those two channels only... 

I got all retro to the DirecTV days and went backward and checked each coax connection all the way to the underground coming to the house and found a connection that was getting rainwater dripping on it occasionally on the exterior.. cleaned, tightened, repositioned and tada.. problem solved...


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## johnnylundy

cwoody222 said:


> In Settings there's a Display option to tell TiVo you have a a 16x9 set. In another menu you can set the output type (1080i, etc).


Mine seems to change resolutions whenever I hit the TiVo Central button. I can't really figure out what it is changing from, as I do have it set to 16:9 and I have my TV set to 16:9 also. I currently have the TiVo video output set to Native, though my TV can only do 720p. All of the manuals and tip sheets seem to imply that the output settings are a matter of trial and error, so I will continue to try different ones and see if I can get a smooth transition. I would not mind if the TiVo HD would just default to 4:3 for its menus if that would prevent the resolution switch it seems to be doing.

Or maybe it is the Component output that I am using. I still have my HDMI cable connected to the Moto 3416.


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## cwoody222

Do you have 9.x yet? Doesn't the HD unit "flicker" a bit when it switches resolutions? I don't know if that's fixed in 9.x for the HD's but I think it happened before... IIRC...


----------



## johnnylundy

cwoody222 said:


> Do you have 9.x yet? Doesn't the HD unit "flicker" a bit when it switches resolutions? I don't know if that's fixed in 9.x for the HD's but I think it happened before... IIRC...


I haven't checked anything yet this morning - Springsteen is playing the Today Show and well, you know.. but I did let the TiVo do Guided Setup and sit for 2 days before installing the CableCARDs, and it did not say it was refreshing firmware... I will check the software version shortly.

Changing to "720 mixed" (720p for HD and 480i for SD) fixed the delay in getting the TiVo Central menu. With "Native", it was outputting 1080i and switching back every time I went to the TiVo Central.

BUT - now this morning I am getting macroblocking and breakup in sound ans picture. Dammit dammit - going to investigate that. I had a 93% signal on both tuners last night.


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## bensler

In regards to pixelation, does anyone have a suggestion for me to go and buy an outdoor or indoor antenna? Does one work better than the other? Why do you have to re-run the set up with an antenna? Is there something that you must re-set. I think my pixelation problems with Comcast will never end. Time to try something different...Thanks to all of you that respond!


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## lhntx

I called Comcast yesterday and reminded them about all of the problems that I have been having for months with the really bad pixelization on both of my Series 3 w/ cablecards, the 3 visits from techs, their refusal to do anything, etc. and since they are about to raise our rates - I want it fixed! I was told that there are new types of cable cards now available that "talk back", so that I should exchange my current cable cards and this should fix the problem. Has anyone else heard about the new cards or done this? I'm in Houston.


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## AbMagFab

lhntx said:


> I called Comcast yesterday and reminded them about all of the problems that I have been having for months with the really bad pixelization on both of my Series 3 w/ cablecards, the 3 visits from techs, their refusal to do anything, etc. and since they are about to raise our rates - I want it fixed! I was told that there are new types of cable cards now available that "talk back", so that I should exchange my current cable cards and this should fix the problem. Has anyone else heard about the new cards or done this? I'm in Houston.


It's amazing how completely moronic the cable company CSR's and techs are.

They are probably referring to the MCARDS. But this has nothing to do with "talking back", and will do nothing to improve your picture quality.

Do a search here for MCARD, or CableCard 2.0, and you'll get more info, but it's really just for your education so you can slap the CSR/Tech around when they tell you dumb things. It won't do anything for your pixellation.


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## cwoody222

bensler said:


> In regards to pixelation, does anyone have a suggestion for me to go and buy an outdoor or indoor antenna? Does one work better than the other? Why do you have to re-run the set up with an antenna? Is there something that you must re-set. I think my pixelation problems with Comcast will never end. Time to try something different...Thanks to all of you that respond!


the Zeneth / Philips Silver Sensor


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## johnnylundy

cwoody222 said:


> Do you have 9.x yet? Doesn't the HD unit "flicker" a bit when it switches resolutions? I don't know if that's fixed in 9.x for the HD's but I think it happened before... IIRC...


Update and a question which I forgot: now on about 4 days running with the TiVo HD with 2 single-stream Moto CableCARDs. I have absolutely NO pixelation or macroblocking.

Once I took out the splitter that was letting me share the TiVo with the Moto 3416, I now get 100% signal according to both the Setup screen and the individual channel signal strength graphic (the one with the varying pitch tone).

I am very pleased. There is no forgetting of recorded programs, no delay in responding to commands from the remote, and no forgetting of programs scheduled to record.

As well, having the TiVo interface back again is SO much of a delight. To-Do list, easy buttons to remember, auto-rewind 8 seconds, etc.

I did mean to ask you what you meant about the 9.x software. Mine shows 8.1xxx, and it has rebooted a couple of times and sat long enough that it should have gotten the latest download. I read elsewhere that 8.1 is good and 8.3 may be not so good, so I guess I won't push it.

But what is 9.x?


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## bensler

Question about guided set up: has anyone re-run guided set up for whatever reason and in turn made the pixelation worse? I was at least getting 80% decent picture quality until today when the TIVO support suggested that I re-run guided set up to force a connection and maybe 9.1 would appear. Now that I have done that, I am getting pixelation on all of the HD channels, where prior to this I got pixelation on ABC HD and NBC HD. Now ESPN HD is terrible as well as TNT HD, etc. etc..

Thanks!


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## jrm01

johnnylundy said:


> I did mean to ask you what you meant about the 9.x software. Mine shows 8.1xxx, and it has rebooted a couple of times and sat long enough that it should have gotten the latest download. I read elsewhere that 8.1 is good and 8.3 may be not so good, so I guess I won't push it.
> 
> But what is 9.x?


9.1 is the newest release for both the THD and S3. It is just beginning to roll out and will probably take a week or more to complete. Prior to that 8.1 was the latest for THD and 8.3 was the latest for S3.


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## FrostBite

is it safe to buy a TivoHD? have the problems been fixed?


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## bkdtv

cwoody222 said:


> I have a S3 (not a HD) running the new 9.x software. I have never had CableCARDs. I'm not using QAM. I get my HD via OTA only.
> 
> Last year (my first year with OTA) I would notice minor pixelations here and there... due to loss of signal during bad weather, etc. Lately I'm seeing pixelation that looks... different.
> 
> Instead of just little blurps of pixelation here and there on the screen, now the entire screen is almost gone. I can't quite explain it but it is definately different than signal loss.
> 
> I only started to notice it after 9.x but that could just be because I'm watching more HD content this week (fall premieres). But again, I NEVER saw this at all last year. I'm worried pixelation is happening on OTA stations now, not just CableCARDs! Strangely, so far, I've only seen this on one channel. But I saw it on consecutive nights so I can't quite blame weather-induced signal loss.
> 
> I took a picture of what I'm seeing. Is this what the pixelation discussed here and elsewhere in regards to CableCARDs looks like?


What's the name of your affiliate?

What does Settings -> Channels show as your signal strength?

If signal strength is good, you might want to call the affiliate, ask for the engineering department, and then ask them a) what encoder they are using, and b) if they have upgraded the firmware on their encoder recently.


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## TimSmith

FrostBite said:


> is it safe to buy a TivoHD? have the problems been fixed?


I want to know this as well. I have Verizon Fios and I really dislike the Moto cable box. I love TIVO but I'm really afraid of this pixelization issue.

I'd love to know what percentage of users this affects.


----------



## cwoody222

bkdtv said:


> What's the name of your affiliate?
> 
> What does Settings -> Channels show as your signal strength?
> 
> If signal strength is good, you might want to call the affiliate, ask for the engineering department, and then ask them a) what encoder they are using, and b) if they have upgraded the firmware on their encoder recently.


A local viewer had the same thing happen while watching OTA (which I was doing) AND while recording on his cable company DVR.

So the problem's at the station.

It's better this week so we're confident here the station engineers are on it.

The other viewer did NOT have a TiVo and also had the problem (on OTA and cable) so this is not a TiVo issue at all.


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## bkdtv

TimSmith said:


> I want to know this as well. I have Verizon Fios and I really dislike the Moto cable box. I love TIVO but I'm really afraid of this pixelization issue.
> 
> I'd love to know what percentage of users this affects.


I suspect it is a small minority.

If you want to be safe, buy the TivoHD locally from Best Buy or Circuit City. Then pay the $25 to have Verizon install the CableCards. Before subscribing or prepaying for Tivo service, make sure you do not see pixelization on any channel (or any channel you care about). The most you are out is $25 for the install, plus another $25 to cancel if you don't have Verizon FiOS office locally where you can drop the cards off.


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## johnnylundy

For what it's worth, I have Comcast, TiVo HD, and Motorola S-Cards. No pixelation at all. I checked signal strength and it is 100% on almost all of the SD channels, 98% on most of the HD channels, and there are a few channels (the Encore series) that are at 93% but even those come in fine.

I really expected to have the macroblocking/pixelation problem after reading here but apparently I am one of the lucky ones, at least so far.

I still show software 8.1 though. For some reason, even with reboots I don't get any software upgrade.


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## bkdtv

johnnylundy said:


> I still show software 8.1 though. For some reason, even with reboots I don't get any software upgrade.


Did you sign up for the new 9.1 software @ http://research.tivo.com/91priority/index.htm ?


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## johnnylundy

bkdtv said:


> Did you sign up for the new 9.1 software @ http://research.tivo.com/91priority/index.htm ?


I did now. Thanks for the link.


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## warrensomebody

I live in San Francisco and am thinking of moving to a Tivo HD with Comcast. Can anyone tell me what cable cards they use here? I'm hoping that it's a Motorola S-Card, and like JohnnyLundy, won't see pixelation. Does anyone see this sort of pixelation in the Bay Area? Thx,


----------



## johnnylundy

bkdtv said:


> Did you sign up for the new 9.1 software @ http://research.tivo.com/91priority/index.htm ?


I signed up and on restart tonight I have the 9.1 software.

Still no pixelation - but I had to reboot to try and cure a situation where no channels were received on either tuner, and the TiVo background was black, although the menus still functioned and the info on the cards said they were fine. A reboot seems to have fixed it.

Just for fun I tried to see if http: //tivo_ip/nowplaying/index.html would connect - it won't.


----------



## houman

I got the TivoHD over the week-end, and I noticed pixelation... I did sign up for 9.1.

My pixelation is not as bad as some other people here, but it comes and goes. I know it can't be the source, because before the TivoHD, I had the source (coax) plugged into my TV directly (Samsung LNT4661F) and I never had any pixelation problem.

Hopefully the 9.1 (whenever I get it) will fix this issue.

/cheers
Houman


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## johnnylundy

houman said:


> I got the TivoHD over the week-end, and I noticed pixelation... I did sign up for 9.1.
> 
> My pixelation is not as bad as some other people here, but it comes and goes. I know it can't be the source, because before the TivoHD, I had the source (coax) plugged into my TV directly (Samsung LNT4661F) and I never had any pixelation problem.


Yep - I have a Samsung also, but I am not sure whether the TiVo may need a better signal than either the Samsung or the Motorola DVRs will tolerate.

Did you get Scientific Atlanta CCs, or Moto, or none yet?


> Hopefully the 9.1 (whenever I get it) will fix this issue.
> 
> /cheers
> Houman


I have no pixelation, but I have the dead tuner problem that keeps coming and going - whether it was there the day before 9.1 I am just not sure. It varies between dead tuner on some channels and dead both tuners with black TiVo background - but recordings proceed normally even though you cannot see what is being recorded.


----------



## houman

I decided not to get a CC's, I have WideOpenWest cable, and in addition of CC's cost they require you to upgrade to digital service (they give you more channels for those), but the cost goes up by another $30 a month. If I could just rent CC's I'd do it, but I don't want to upgrade my service really.

Again, my pixelation is not like others (not that bad) it just comes and goes, and I can live with it.


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## edrock200

TimSmith said:


> I want to know this as well. I have Verizon Fios and I really dislike the Moto cable box. I love TIVO but I'm really afraid of this pixelization issue.
> 
> I'd love to know what percentage of users this affects.


I have FiOS i the Northern VA area with 4 tivo HD and one of their moto dvr's. All 4 tivos pixelate, the motorola DVR does not. Swapping cables between the moto and the Tivo yields the same results, moto is just fine, tivo pixelates.

Do not have 9.1 yet, just signed up for the priority list, we'll see what happens. However, at least for me, the problem is bad enough to where any HD show I record off the fios channels are pretty much unwatchable as pixelation occurs every 2-3 seconds. The odd part is a reboot fixes the issue for about 24 hours, but obviously thats not a solution.

Got my fingers crossed that 9.1 fixes the issue, though all the 9.1 bug threads make me wish I had only signed up one tivo for the priority update.


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## benfiel604

johnnylundy said:


> I have no pixelation, but I have the dead tuner problem that keeps coming and going - whether it was there the day before 9.1 I am just not sure. It varies between dead tuner on some channels and dead both tuners with black TiVo background - but recordings proceed normally even though you cannot see what is being recorded.


I'm not sure what's worse - pixelization or dead tuners! I have fios and will stick with the crappy moto with the unbelievably crappy 2.0 interface until tivo gets their $#@! together. At least there's no pixelization or dead tuners and I can keep $550 in my pocket.

What's happening lately with all these hd dvr problems???

Wierd.....


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## cwoody222

You have FiOS 2.0 and you think that's crappy?!

From pictures and reviews I've read it looks fantastic. Better than ANY cable company box I've ever seen or used.

You want crappy? Try what we have here. It's ancient and it runs on ancient hardware. But if you love purple, it's great.










Consider yourself even lucky that you have FiOS as an option.


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## shamu20

I have a Tivo HD and just got the "coveted 9.1" system update. The tech at the help desk guaranteed that an upgrade to 9.1 would cure my intermittent pixelation. Well... I thought it did initially, but it hits once and a while. Not as bad, but not gone. This is only occurring on my digital channels.

_I was wondering if anyone else is still having problems?_

Here is my config.

Verizon Fios. 
2 Moto S-cable cards.

HD looks good, but not the digital.


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## soccercoach61

I am having worse pixelation issues since 9.1 installed. Well, to be honest, I didn't have any issues with pixelation with 8.3.

I have:

Comcast in Jackson MS

Tivo S3 w/SA S-cards
Tivo HD w/SA S-cards

SA8300HD

For example, on NatGeo HD I have pixelation on both Tivos, but not on the SA8300HD. Since this has been going on all morning, I've been able to look at all three together. 

The signal strength on the HD shows varying from 88 (pix starts) to 99 (pix ends at about 92). A couple of times it slipped to 77 and the picture froze. 

The signal strength on the S3 varies from 87 (pix starts) to 100 (pix ends at about 91). A couple of times it dipped to 70 and the picture froze, and once to 50 and the screen turned gray. Also, periodically, I get the CC host ID screen indicating that my cards are not authorized.

Also, I get audio dropouts with any pixelation. 

Also, I've tuned the same station with both cards and get pixelation on both, although it occurs MUCH more frequently with the card in slot 2.


On the SA8300HD, I get no change in the signal strength.

-Chuck


----------



## fizban

Not sure if I posted this or not so I apologize if this is a duplicate.

I had problems pixelation on my S3 tivo for a while. Cox cable with 2 Moto cable cards. Trouble was contributed to work being done in the area for a while, then not enough signal strength at last I was getting too much signal. Had at lease 10 calls for Cox to come out.

I had the same problems with the signal jumping all over the place from 94 to 70 to 0. Pixelation on both cable cards and near the end it would only do it on one. Thought there was a problem with that one cable card but they replaced it and I had the same problems.

Last tech to come out checked the signal strength coming in my house and found it to be WAY too high. He told me that normal signal strength was something like 6db +/- 3db. I had 18-20db coming in prior to my cable going into a 11db amp. Tech said that I had too much without the amp and put a device in to actually knock the signal down to tolerable levels. Haven't had one pixelation problem since. Everything works great.

Hope this helps.


----------



## shamu20

fizban said:


> Not sure if I posted this or not so I apologize if this is a duplicate.
> 
> I had problems pixelation on my S3 tivo for a while. Cox cable with 2 Moto cable cards. Trouble was contributed to work being done in the area for a while, then not enough signal strength at last I was getting too much signal. Had at lease 10 calls for Cox to come out.
> 
> I had the same problems with the signal jumping all over the place from 94 to 70 to 0. Pixelation on both cable cards and near the end it would only do it on one. Thought there was a problem with that one cable card but they replaced it and I had the same problems.
> 
> Last tech to come out checked the signal strength coming in my house and found it to be WAY too high. He told me that normal signal strength was something like 6db +/- 3db. I had 18-20db coming in prior to my cable going into a 11db amp. Tech said that I had too much without the amp and put a device in to actually knock the signal down to tolerable levels. Haven't had one pixelation problem since. Everything works great.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Do you know what they bumped it down to? I don't know if they told me what my db is, but they did say something about 8... That could probably be this. I only have problems with my digital channels though, not my HD. Could this be the problem?


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## fizban

I want to say it was knocked down into the 9 range. I was having problems on the HD channels though not the digital channels.


----------



## madoverlord

Like so many people, I've been having the 3-4 second sound/audio freeze 5-10 times an hour problem with my Series 3 ever since the summer software update. The only difference with 9.1 is that the freezups are now papered over by a "fast forward" effect. I also had the "cablecard lost all the digital channels" issue after 9.1 was installed.

Thinking this latter was a cablecard issue, I got a service call from TimeWarner Cable -- and because I'd had them in to try and fix the pixelation issues several times before, this time they unchained their top guy from his usual post defending the headend and sent him off to see what was going on.

The cablecard issue resolved pretty quickly - we tried removing and reinserting the card, and the channels came back immediately.

The tech (hereinafter, "Deep Cable") then spent a lot of time trying to narrow down the pixilation issues. He tested the incoming signal out the wazoo, and took the time to show me, in depth, why the signal was good, going deep into the menus of his tester, etc.

After confirming that my signal was nice and juicy, and 36db s/n, we watched for the problem, and it was still there. He was a bit annoyed by the FF effect TiVo has apparently added, because it did not let him see the actual pixelation - hey, TiVo guys who are not officially allowed to read this forum, make that a selectable option!!!

We even watched his test meter for 10 minutes while it was checking both the raw and corrected bit error rates, both reading as <10-9 IIRC (ie: <1 error per gigabit).

We checked the TiVo signal strength reading, and it was coming in at 87-92 depending on channel. At this point, there was not much else he could do, so Deep Cable suggested I call TiVo support and get some suggestions, and he'd swing by later in the day if they came up with anything.

The call to TiVo tech support got a woman ("Deep Denial") who claimed that (a) she hadn't heard of the cablecard dropout problem and (b) she wasn't allowed to even consider the possibility of thinking about reading the posts on non-official forums. All she was able to do was (c) take down my report for posting in their tracking system and (d) repeatedly swear on a stack of TiVo manuals that I had to have a signal strength reading of 95 or better or the angels would weep for me.

I duly reported the words of Deep Denial to Deep Cable, and he popped back within the hour (within the hour -- did I mention he arrived at 9am for an "all day" appointment?) with a small amp to boost the signal going into the TiVo (there is already one at the house junction box, btw). But that quick test fix boosted the signal too much, so he went down the street to the junction there and ramped the signal level up and down while I reported the TiVo meter reading to him, and tweaked it until it was maxed - at 93-95.

The result, over the last couple of days, is that I'm still getting hits, but only 2-4 an hour, with some channels better (ie: 1 to 2 hits) than others. Of course, as soon as another tech even looks hard at the street box, it'll mess up again.

Deep Cable is of the opinion that the issue is inside the TiVo but that the only way to know for sure is to hook up another cablecard TV side by side and see if they have significantly different behaviors. But he told me to let him know if I found out anything more, or if there was a resolution to the issue from TiVo.

One final thing: in the TiVo diagnostics, when the tech's meter was showing 36db s/n, a line in the listing was showing TUNER 1 as having a SNR of 36db and the two cablecards as having (IIRC) an "OOB SNR" of 26db. Deep Denial said that her recently updated listings of the diagnostic screen did not show this line! Significant? If they are measuring the same thing, then a 10db difference is non-trivial!

Anway, that's what I know so far - and I hope they clone Deep Cable so he can be available to help each of you.


----------



## T-Shee

madoverlord said:


> Like so many people, I've been having the 3-4 second sound/audio freeze 5-10 times an hour problem with my Series 3 ever since the summer software update. The only difference with 9.1 is that the freezups are now papered over by a "fast forward" effect. I also had the "cablecard lost all the digital channels" issue after 9.1 was installed.
> 
> Thinking this latter was a cablecard issue, I got a service call from TimeWarner Cable -- and because I'd had them in to try and fix the pixelation issues several times before, this time they unchained their top guy from his usual post defending the headend and sent him off to see what was going on.
> 
> The cablecard issue resolved pretty quickly - we tried removing and reinserting the card, and the channels came back immediately.
> 
> The tech (hereinafter, "Deep Cable") then spent a lot of time trying to narrow down the pixilation issues. He tested the incoming signal out the wazoo, and took the time to show me, in depth, why the signal was good, going deep into the menus of his tester, etc.
> 
> After confirming that my signal was nice and juicy, and 36db s/n, we watched for the problem, and it was still there. He was a bit annoyed by the FF effect TiVo has apparently added, because it did not let him see the actual pixelation - hey, TiVo guys who are not officially allowed to read this forum, make that a selectable option!!!
> 
> We even watched his test meter for 10 minutes while it was checking both the raw and corrected bit error rates, both reading as <10-9 IIRC (ie: <1 error per gigabit).
> 
> We checked the TiVo signal strength reading, and it was coming in at 87-92 depending on channel. At this point, there was not much else he could do, so Deep Cable suggested I call TiVo support and get some suggestions, and he'd swing by later in the day if they came up with anything.
> 
> The call to TiVo tech support got a woman ("Deep Denial") who claimed that (a) she hadn't heard of the cablecard dropout problem and (b) she wasn't allowed to even consider the possibility of thinking about reading the posts on non-official forums. All she was able to do was (c) take down my report for posting in their tracking system and (d) repeatedly swear on a stack of TiVo manuals that I had to have a signal strength reading of 95 or better or the angels would weep for me.
> 
> I duly reported the words of Deep Denial to Deep Cable, and he popped back within the hour (within the hour -- did I mention he arrived at 9am for an "all day" appointment?) with a small amp to boost the signal going into the TiVo (there is already one at the house junction box, btw). But that quick test fix boosted the signal too much, so he went down the street to the junction there and ramped the signal level up and down while I reported the TiVo meter reading to him, and tweaked it until it was maxed - at 93-95.
> 
> The result, over the last couple of days, is that I'm still getting hits, but only 2-4 an hour, with some channels better (ie: 1 to 2 hits) than others. Of course, as soon as another tech even looks hard at the street box, it'll mess up again.
> 
> Deep Cable is of the opinion that the issue is inside the TiVo but that the only way to know for sure is to hook up another cablecard TV side by side and see if they have significantly different behaviors. But he told me to let him know if I found out anything more, or if there was a resolution to the issue from TiVo.
> 
> One final thing: in the TiVo diagnostics, when the tech's meter was showing 36db s/n, a line in the listing was showing TUNER 1 as having a SNR of 36db and the two cablecards as having (IIRC) an "OOB SNR" of 26db. Deep Denial said that her recently updated listings of the diagnostic screen did not show this line! Significant? If they are measuring the same thing, then a 10db difference is non-trivial!
> 
> Anway, that's what I know so far - and I hope they clone Deep Cable so he can be available to help each of you.


Nice writeup, thanks. OOB stands for Out of Band, or the separate frequency that the cable card responds to for channel authorizations, channel lists, etc.

I would be concerned with the lower DB reading only if your cable cards routinely lost authorization, etc. It's not related to the dropouts, AFAIK.

fyi, I got my first taste of the audio drop - fast forward weirdness last night, and I find it less annoying than the V8.x's pixelization fireworks, but still indefensible.


----------



## RaviChopra

soccercoach61 said:


> I am having worse pixelation issues since 9.1 installed. Well, to be honest, I didn't have any issues with pixelation with 8.3.
> 
> I have:
> 
> Comcast in Jackson MS
> 
> Tivo S3 w/SA S-cards
> Tivo HD w/SA S-cards
> 
> SA8300HD
> 
> For example, on NatGeo HD I have pixelation on both Tivos, but not on the SA8300HD. Since this has been going on all morning, I've been able to look at all three together.
> 
> The signal strength on the HD shows varying from 88 (pix starts) to 99 (pix ends at about 92). A couple of times it slipped to 77 and the picture froze.
> 
> The signal strength on the S3 varies from 87 (pix starts) to 100 (pix ends at about 91). A couple of times it dipped to 70 and the picture froze, and once to 50 and the screen turned gray. Also, periodically, I get the CC host ID screen indicating that my cards are not authorized.
> 
> Also, I get audio dropouts with any pixelation.
> 
> Also, I've tuned the same station with both cards and get pixelation on both, although it occurs MUCH more frequently with the card in slot 2.
> 
> On the SA8300HD, I get no change in the signal strength.
> 
> -Chuck


While I'm glad not to have the other issues others have noticed with the 9.1 upload, I have definitely gotten quite a bit of pixelation.

I've got an S3 w/ Wide Open West in Royal Oak, MI, 2 SA cards. 750 GB external HD hooked up via eSATA (working perfectly). Pixelation appears to occur on predominantly HD prime-time shows, both OTA and cable-based.
Also have WOW's HD DVR, which is a piece of garbage, and on which we've seen pixelation once or twice, but not nearly as often as on the S3.

I hope they can square this away soon. Quite frustrating in the face of an upgrade which brought no functionality I really wanted or needed.
-Ravi


----------



## johnnylundy

An update - I was initially getting the "black Live TV - no TiVo background - cured by reboot" problem, but ever since I re-ran Guided Setup after the last reboot 5 days ago, I have not seen the problem, even with all kinds of switching tuners and jumping around menus.

I never had the pixelation and still don't. I think that problem is signal-related, or SA card signal sensitivity.

So, for those still getting the black screen, try repeating Guided Setup. Maybe it was choking trying to load corrupt Guide data or something - this is still at the superstition stage as far as thinking some action we took cured it...

And for those with the pixelation, check your signal strength with the Settings/Channels/Signal Strength feature. I get 100% on all the 1-99 channels and 98% on MOST of the HD channels, but they all come in OK. Take splitters out and test the full signal.


----------



## houman

FYI, my pixelation problems went away post 9.1


----------



## Lenonn

We've had some pixelation here (RCN in Montgomery County, MD, using a single M-card). I can't detect any rhyme or reason as to why it is occuring. It occurs for thirty seconds max in most of the recordings (usually hour-long shows). Our software is at 9.1 on the TiVoHD; it almost seems like the pixelation got worst with 9.1; we barely had any with the previous software (although, that was also pre-digital cable, so we were using standard cable and antenna and had pixelation via that).


----------



## gjlloyd

i've been following this thread for several weeks, and have avoided purchasing an S3 because of all the reported pixelation problems. is there any sense of how widespread this is? i realize people posting to this forum represent a skewed sampling of all S3 owners.. but how can we tell if its 80% of people have pixelation or 10%? i have FIOS TV, and the new IMG is a total buggy POS!

can we do a poll on this forum some now? maybe the forum admin can help?


----------



## Daxel

Well, I guess I can put myself on the list of Pixelation and FF Wierdness.
Here is the thing - it seems to only be a couple of channels on FIOS in Mass. Channel 4 and TNT. The others seem fine.

Now, here is the kicker - I had Comcast until a few days ago. The pixelation and FF wierdness covered about 15 channels. 2 months before that, I had RCN - I do not remember a single incident with RCN (other than their hugely expensive service).

So, is this a provider issue, a Tivo issue, or a bit of both?


----------



## Teeps

gjlloyd said:


> i've been following this thread for several weeks, and have avoided purchasing an S3 because of all the reported pixelation problems. is there any sense of how widespread this is? i realize people posting to this forum represent a skewed sampling of all S3 owners.. but how can we tell if its 80% of people have pixelation or 10%? i have FIOS TV, and the new IMG is a total buggy POS!
> 
> can we do a poll on this forum some now? maybe the forum admin can help?


I can only speak for myself in saying I notice this problem only on second teir digital stations, provided by Time Warner, I.E. Speed, VS, and the provided HD stations. These are channel numbers above 200, channels below 200 do not have this problem.

I record locals via OTA with no problems.

The problem has changed since the 9.1 upgrade, not seeing pixelazation as much and the sound does not completely drop out.

My opinion is the pixel problem is either band width or buffering... I say this based only on observations before and after the TiVo upgrade to 9.1.


----------



## bkdtv

In other threads, some people have reported that 9.2 eliminates some pixelization issues with 9.1. Be sure to sign up for it @ http://www.tivo.com/priority/.

Everyone should get 9.2 within the next month, but if you can get it by Wednesday if you sign up.


----------



## lrhorer

johnnylundy said:


> An update - I was initially getting the "black Live TV - no TiVo background - cured by reboot" problem, but ever since I re-ran Guided Setup after the last reboot 5 days ago, I have not seen the problem, even with all kinds of switching tuners and jumping around menus.
> 
> I never had the pixelation and still don't. I think that problem is signal-related, or SA card signal sensitivity.


I have had occasional pixelization on various channels since 1990, and I definitely had it at some level on the SA 8300HD. I still get it on my Series I attached to a standard SA set top. Qualitatively I would say my 2 Series III receivers do not have any greater amount of pixelization than the 8300 or the SA set top do. I have not noticed any greater amount in general under 9.1 than under 8.3. I definitely do have issues with a lost CableCard fixed by reboot since the push of 9.1, but note it sometimes takes 2 or 3 days or more for the problem to re-occur. When it does, the affected CableCard returns no video on any digital channel. Analog channels do not pass through the CableCards, and as such are not affected no matter what.


----------



## Robbomac

Just had a Comcast M-CARD Cablecard installed in my new Tivo HD today, and discovered this pixellation trouble as soon as I watched my first HD programming. Live TV is fine, but watching from a recording or the buffer has lots of pixellation and brief audio stuttered.

Initially thought my cable signal was bad, but I rarely had trouble with the Motorola 6412 DVR I am replacing. Signal quality is in the 93-100 range, and the S/N ratio on the cable input is over 35.

I signed up for a priority push of the new 9.2 software, but interestingly the problem disappeared before receiving the update after a simple system restart. The only thing I can think of that may have affected the system was that I aborted the Tivo startup movie sequence (by pushing the TiVo button) when the cable installer was present - could that have caused glitches?


----------



## Dr_Diablo

cwoody222 said:


> You have FiOS 2.0 and you think that's crappy?!
> 
> From pictures and reviews I've read it looks fantastic. Better than ANY cable company box I've ever seen or used.
> 
> You want crappy? Try what we have here. It's ancient and it runs on ancient hardware. But if you love purple, it's great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Consider yourself even lucky that you have FiOS as an option.


Boy that sure looks like what I had to endure with BrightHouse here...

The broadband service ain't nuttin to brag about either...

I'm paying for 10 MB downstream... on a good day I get 4 MB... geeze


----------



## bkdtv

Robbomac said:


> Just had an M-CARD Cablecard installed in my new Tivo HD today, and discovered this pixellation trouble as soon as I watched my first HD programming. Live TV is fine, but watching from a recording or the buffer has lots of pixellation and brief audio stutters.
> 
> Initially thought my cable signal was bad, but I rarely had trouble with the Motorola 6412 DVR I am replacing. Signal quality is in the 93-100 range, and the S/N ratio on the cable input is over 35.
> 
> Just discovered this forum, and quickly learned that the version of the TiVo software that came with my box - 8.1.7 - may be to blame. I contacted TiVo support tonight, and they are promising me a priority update.


Be sure to sign up @ http://www.tivo.com/priority/


----------



## traig

So I bought a new Tivo HD from Best Buy (had some gift cards to use) Sunday. Fios tech came out Monday and switched out the Motorola box for two cable cards (I don't know who makes them, I wasn't there for the installation). I got home, redid the guided setup, and started surfing. Right away I saw the pixelation / macroblocking on ESPN HD and TNT HD. It would be awful for ten minutes and then all but go away for a little while. Strangely enough I didn't see it on WRC's/NBC's HD. I was running 8.1.7c2-01-2-652.9.1. 

I researched the issue yesterday and found many other sufferers. I jumped on the priority upgrade page, signed up, and last night got 9.1-01-2-652 installed. I rebooted and checked out the digital channels again. Much to my dismay I saw the problem was still there.

About an hour after that reboot I went to diagnostics and wrote down these numbers:

Tuner 0
Sig str 100 (never changed)
SNR 38 dB
RS Uncorrected 671
RS Corrected 263
Time since signal lock 1700 seconds (and counting)
CableCARD 1


Tuner 1
Sig str 50-100 (lots of flux, generally in the 60s and 70s)
SNR 30-35 dB fluctuating
RS Uncorrected 13285
RS Corrected 414004
Time since signal lock 320 (and counting)
CableCARD 2


Any ideas here guys? Is it likely a bad card? When I saw this the other night, pre update, and looked at the diagnostics, I thought I saw the issue on both tuners but maybe I didn't. Do the numbers I have here indicate one possible cause over another?


----------



## greggt007

fios NoVa
i had the fios dvr for 10 days and there was some pixelation occasionally, so when i switched to tivohd, i thought it was just fios. but last night i hit the tivo button and the main menu shows up all pixelated! obviously, not fios. no audio dropouts, and honestly it doesnt bother me much, compared to the stuttering problem i had with 9.1 and my tv's stuttering problem which was recently fixed. i feel blessed to only have video pixelation!
signal strength is always 100 from what i've seen

espnhd is the worst, seems the lower half of the video is almost out of sync...watched some poker and slow framed and when they switched cameras, a couple frames later, the previous camera frames shows up almost exactly 50% of the screen image and lower, only for 2 frames or so.

other channels are not this bad at all. i'm confident it will be worked out in the future either by fios or tivo


----------



## richsadams

greggt007 said:


> fios NoVa
> i had the fios dvr for 10 days and there was some pixelation occasionally, so when i switched to tivohd, i thought it was just fios. but last night i hit the tivo button and the main menu shows up all pixelated! obviously, not fios. no audio dropouts, and honestly it doesnt bother me much, compared to the stuttering problem i had with 9.1 and my tv's stuttering problem which was recently fixed. i feel blessed to only have video pixelation!
> signal strength is always 100 from what i've seen
> 
> espnhd is the worst, seems the lower half of the video is almost out of sync...watched some poker and slow framed and when they switched cameras, a couple frames later, the previous camera frames shows up almost exactly 50% of the screen image and lower, only for 2 frames or so.
> 
> other channels are not this bad at all. i'm confident it will be worked out in the future either by fios or tivo


There have long been reports about ESPN HD having problems, but pixelated menus are NOT just a "bug". If you're seeing that something is wrong. If it continues you should get on the phone w/TiVo...it probably will not get better and could get worse. You may be entitled to a replacement either from TiVo or wherever you purchased your TiVo HD.


----------



## mazman

traig said:


> So I bought a new Tivo HD from Best Buy (had some gift cards to use) Sunday. Fios tech came out Monday and switched out the Motorola box for two cable cards (I don't know who makes them, I wasn't there for the installation). I got home, redid the guided setup, and started surfing. Right away I saw the pixelation / macroblocking on ESPN HD and TNT HD. It would be awful for ten minutes and then all but go away for a little while. Strangely enough I didn't see it on WRC's/NBC's HD. I was running 8.1.7c2-01-2-652.9.1.
> 
> I researched the issue yesterday and found many other sufferers. I jumped on the priority upgrade page, signed up, and last night got 9.1-01-2-652 installed. I rebooted and checked out the digital channels again. Much to my dismay I saw the problem was still there.
> 
> About an hour after that reboot I went to diagnostics and wrote down these numbers:
> 
> Tuner 0
> Sig str 100 (never changed)
> SNR 38 dB
> RS Uncorrected 671
> RS Corrected 263
> Time since signal lock 1700 seconds (and counting)
> CableCARD 1
> 
> Tuner 1
> Sig str 50-100 (lots of flux, generally in the 60s and 70s)
> SNR 30-35 dB fluctuating
> RS Uncorrected 13285
> RS Corrected 414004
> Time since signal lock 320 (and counting)
> CableCARD 2
> 
> Any ideas here guys? Is it likely a bad card? When I saw this the other night, pre update, and looked at the diagnostics, I thought I saw the issue on both tuners but maybe I didn't. Do the numbers I have here indicate one possible cause over another?


I had the same problem which was fixed by getting a replacement Tivo under warranty.

Take a channel on Tuner 1 which is giving you lots of RS errors and tune into it on Tuner 0. If you don't get the RS errors on Tuner 0 you probably have a tuner problem.


----------



## bud8man

Looks Like Larry David might be experiencing the same problem...which leads to some other personal issues in LD's life...

http://www.hbo.com/larrydavid/episode/index.html

The TiVo Guy


----------



## richsadams

bud8man said:


> Looks Like Larry David might be experiencing the same problem...which leads to some other personal issues in LD's life...
> 
> http://www.hbo.com/larrydavid/episode/index.html
> 
> The TiVo Guy


Great find! :up: I used to watch it but lost interest a while back. This one will be worth TiVoing for sure though!

Airs October 25th and 26th.

Schedule it:

http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/progr...93284800&stationId=tivo:st.400&channelNum=126


----------



## SCSIRAID

traig said:


> So I bought a new Tivo HD from Best Buy (had some gift cards to use) Sunday. Fios tech came out Monday and switched out the Motorola box for two cable cards (I don't know who makes them, I wasn't there for the installation). I got home, redid the guided setup, and started surfing. Right away I saw the pixelation / macroblocking on ESPN HD and TNT HD. It would be awful for ten minutes and then all but go away for a little while. Strangely enough I didn't see it on WRC's/NBC's HD. I was running 8.1.7c2-01-2-652.9.1.
> 
> I researched the issue yesterday and found many other sufferers. I jumped on the priority upgrade page, signed up, and last night got 9.1-01-2-652 installed. I rebooted and checked out the digital channels again. Much to my dismay I saw the problem was still there.
> 
> About an hour after that reboot I went to diagnostics and wrote down these numbers:
> 
> Tuner 0
> Sig str 100 (never changed)
> SNR 38 dB
> RS Uncorrected 671
> RS Corrected 263
> Time since signal lock 1700 seconds (and counting)
> CableCARD 1
> 
> Tuner 1
> Sig str 50-100 (lots of flux, generally in the 60s and 70s)
> SNR 30-35 dB fluctuating
> RS Uncorrected 13285
> RS Corrected 414004
> Time since signal lock 320 (and counting)
> CableCARD 2
> 
> Any ideas here guys? Is it likely a bad card? When I saw this the other night, pre update, and looked at the diagnostics, I thought I saw the issue on both tuners but maybe I didn't. Do the numbers I have here indicate one possible cause over another?


The Tuner 0 numbers suggests tuner overload. Try attenuating the input. You could add a 4way splitter to the cable going to the Tivo.

It could also be a bad tuner. I suggest you try attenuation and then go from there.


----------



## eggpro

Put myself back on the list as well.. I have 2 series 3 tivos 4 cable cards, both with the same issues.. I live in Chino Ca. with fios. Ive had it get bad in some hd channels ESPN HD and TNT HD and other hd channels in the 800s. sometimes its in the lower channels like 89 81 83 100 102 103. For a while it was only happening in the heat. now that its a little cool it still does it from time to time. Happening for 3 days and not happening again for a month.. I dont get it. its done it on all software ive had in it. I've had fios tech there and been on the phone with Tivo for hours even changing out one of my boxs. Whos problem is it? mine? Fios? Tivo? Sometimes it gets frusrating but. I deal with. I dont have much of a choice till something gets fixed.


----------



## Joybob

Theory: Only popular TV shows get pixelation.
Evidence: House MD always gets pixelation despite being SD while WealthTV comes through perfectly clear.


----------



## Zathrus

We've been having intermittent pixelation _and_ channel loss on both HD and digital cable channels for about a week now. On digital cable we tend to see macroblocking; on HD we see horizontal lines of pixelation and audio drop outs. In some cases it's gotten bad enough that we couldn't tune to some HD channels at all.

It's sporadic, such that the one time we've scheduled someone to come out we had to cancel the appointment -- two hours before the appointment it was awful, an hour before it was just fine.

This is on Charter cable in Roswell, GA. Seems to have started happening about the same time the S3 got the 9.2 update. Personally, I suspect the cable signal quality has gone down (with mild, but watchable pixelation we were seeing 54-59 signal quality and 26 dB SNR), but I wanted to see if anyone else was seeing anything like this.


----------



## bkdtv

Joybob said:


> Theory: Only popular TV shows get pixelation.
> Evidence: House MD always gets pixelation despite being SD while WealthTV comes through perfectly clear.


If you have FiOS, add one or two attenuators to eliminate the problem.

Pack of attenuators for $12.99


----------



## joysmahal

I use my THD with regular analog cable and OTA antenna. I've had it for about a month and I had no issues with the OTA HD channels before.

When I updated to 9.2 last week, I'm getting a lot of pixelation/macroblocking. It's pretty annoying. If I switch tuners and use my internal tuner on my TV (Sony Bravia XBR1), the digital channels picked up through the QAM tuner are just fine. I'm only having problems now with OTA since I updated to 9.2


----------



## madoverlord

This is very interesting. I was getting the "freeze/fastforward" problems every 5-10 mins with 9.1 (and started seeing a lot more digital hits when 9.0 came out). But since I got 9.2, this issue has almost totally gone away - I only see an occasional minor digital hit, maybe one per hour or so.

I have a good signal, 93-95 on the meter, 35db.


----------



## SDJack

I seem to be having a similar experience as Madoverlord... I was getting occasional brief HD macroblocking and audio dropouts about every 10 min with 8.3 (S3, 2 SA S-cards), then it changed to the "jump-ahead" thing about the same frequency with 9.1. Now, with 9.2.J, I've watched many hours of stuff recorded with no macroblocking or skips.

For the fellow with the ~55 signal strength, I'd say that is too low... time to call your cable tech and see if you can get that signal up in the 90s.


----------



## srcohen

Just want a add a weird pixelation resolution. 
Have 9.1; Series III; 750MG Seagate External. 
Wanted to add antenna-accessible channels, so added a cable line out from the tivo to antenna. Prior to this had zero pixelation problems. 
Immediately began to see pixelation on digital channels - though not on hd channels. Got so bad that many digital channels were black screen! 
Disconnected the out-cable and pixelation went away immediately. 
Anyone have an explanation??


----------



## SCSIRAID

srcohen said:


> Just want a add a weird pixelation resolution.
> Have 9.1; Series III; 750MG Seagate External.
> Wanted to add antenna-accessible channels, so added a cable line out from the tivo to antenna. Prior to this had zero pixelation problems.
> Immediately began to see pixelation on digital channels - though not on hd channels. Got so bad that many digital channels were black screen!
> Disconnected the out-cable and pixelation went away immediately.
> Anyone have an explanation??


That has been discussed before. Cable and OTA share the same frequencies. If the signal strength of the antenna is high then it could interfere with the cable signal and cause problems. To be definitive, you could go into the diagnostic menu while watching a channel with the problem and watch the SNR when you add and remove the antenna cable. You will probably see the SNR drop with the antenna attached. You could attenuate the antenna and have it work OK.


----------



## gibbyscott

SCSIRAID said:


> That has been discussed before. Cable and OTA share the same frequencies. If the signal strength of the antenna is high then it could interfere with the cable signal and cause problems. To be definitive, you could go into the diagnostic menu while watching a channel with the problem and watch the SNR when you add and remove the antenna cable. You will probably see the SNR drop with the antenna attached. You could attenuate the antenna and have it work OK.


Ugg... I tried this and no effect.... still pixel like crazy. I have FIOS and I am having pixel on only 5 HD channels... the rest are fine... it is driving me crazy... TivoHD with 9.2j


----------



## Daxel

So... I tried an attenuator. I got the pack of 3, 6, 9, 10, 20. None of them seem to do anything. The signal strength on the HD channels hovers in around 66-72, the non-HD Channels are (with attenuator) at 90+.

Should I consider replacing the entire interior cable run? I have FIOS, so the box is in my house. If I am replacing the cable, which brand/type of COAX has the least loss?

Is this problem caused by the Tivo? Is it just that sensitive? Why does it only appear "sometimes" and on on some channels?

Thanks for any input.


----------



## BigFrank

I too have been having problems (since about 9.1) with freezing/fast forward and even more notably occasionally it wont record a show - claiming signal was lost.

Yesterday it was recording a show (probably about 2/3 of the way through - i actually saw the show playing so it had good video for a while) and when I looked for it later on it was nowhere to be found. It was listed in the to-do-list as not recorded due to lack of video signal!!! Even if that were so, why did it delete the show after it had a significant chunk recorded?


----------



## esmtexas

I have FiOS and have always had three HD channels with so much pixel... we cannot watch. verizon changed cables even between a Verizon HD box I had, still no change. I pretty much dont watch those three HD channels. Now, since 9.1 we are getting random/multiple pizelization on MANY SD channels.

This MUST be a TiVo issue, not FiOS since the problem got worse with the upgrade to 9.1. Is it time to throw out TiVO if they can't get this right? :down:


----------



## Daxel

So... I fixed the problem. All of the problems.
If you go to the diagnostics of your cards, watch the signal strengths. If they are not 90-100, you might get pixelization and skipping. Fortunately for me, there is a good AV shop near my house, and I got a long very high quality coax cable. I connected it to the FIOS box and my Tivo, and watched as the signal went from 62-80 (fluctuating) to 95 or 100 on HD. I do not know why the cable I had already run in the house wasn't good enough, but it wasn't. I re-ran high quality cables with compression fittings (yes, the good ones with the $40 tool to apply them). I have a single signal booster at the FIOS box now that splits the cable into 3 lengths. 1 to the cable modem, 1 to each HD Tivo. No other splitters, all cables under 100' in length. I watched and recorded from the channels that ALWAYS had problems last night, and they were completely clean and clear. I watched the signal strengths, and they remained constant. I was talking to one of my neighbors, and although he does not have a HD Tivo, his HD was doing the same thing before he also re-ran cables about two months ago (should have talked to him sooner).
I don't know if everyone's problem can be fixed in this matter, but it cannot hurt to try. By the way, the attenuators from a post further up were totally the wrong thing for me. However, if you are overamping the signal, you might need an attenuator to bring it back in line.


----------



## btwyx

Daxel said:


> I do not know why the cable I had already run in the house wasn't good enough, but it wasn't.


There seems to be some real crap out there sold as co-ax. I just installed a whole bunch, it got buried in the walls when we were remodelling. Some of them, including all the ones run to the TiVo were just crap, and wouldn't pass a signal. If I turned the amplifier up to +15db I get a detectable signal on the TiVo, if I run a good cable directly from the cable entry to the TiVo I get strengths of 100.

With the cables buried in the wall it makes it very difficult to replace the cable.


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## richsadams

Daxel said:


> So... I fixed the problem. All of the problems.
> If you go to the diagnostics of your cards, watch the signal strengths. If they are not 90-100, you might get pixelization and skipping. Fortunately for me, there is a good AV shop near my house, and I got a long very high quality coax cable. I connected it to the FIOS box and my Tivo, and watched as the signal went from 62-80 (fluctuating) to 95 or 100 on HD. I do not know why the cable I had already run in the house wasn't good enough, but it wasn't. I re-ran high quality cables with compression fittings (yes, the good ones with the $40 tool to apply them). I have a single signal booster at the FIOS box now that splits the cable into 3 lengths. 1 to the cable modem, 1 to each HD Tivo. No other splitters, all cables under 100' in length. I watched and recorded from the channels that ALWAYS had problems last night, and they were completely clean and clear. I watched the signal strengths, and they remained constant. I was talking to one of my neighbors, and although he does not have a HD Tivo, his HD was doing the same thing before he also re-ran cables about two months ago (should have talked to him sooner).
> I don't know if everyone's problem can be fixed in this matter, but it cannot hurt to try. By the way, the attenuators from a post further up were totally the wrong thing for me. However, if you are overamping the signal, you might need an attenuator to bring it back in line.


Thanks for the detailed account of your coax cable experience. I've posted comparable advice and received a good deal of push back for some reason...that it _had _ to be TiVo, couldn't be anything else. TiVo demands a good, clean signal to work properly.

Our story was quite similar. Comcast had run new coax and we had even purchased some new coax from one of the bigger department stores which turned out to be of terrible quality. Once we had invested in some decent coax cable (from Frys) any macroblocking we had on our S3 was almost completely eliminated. There will always be slight problems from the source but the difference was remarkable.

Its probably not a fix for everyone, but its a good place to start.

Thanks again! :up:


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## Phantom Gremlin

The cables Comcast installed for me were *very* high quality with uniform compression fittings (not the inferior hex crimp).

Doubtlessly the quality varies from city to city and from installer to installer.


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## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> The cables Comcast installed for me were *very* high quality with uniform compression fittings (not the inferior hex crimp).
> 
> Doubtlessly the quality varies from city to city and from installer to installer.


Good point, and to be fair Comcast only replaced the coax from the wall to TiVo. We ended up replacing everything, so the short amount that they had replaced may have been fine. The aggravating part was that we thought it was a TiVo problem for a while as well.

We replaced a Comcast (POS) HD DVR with the S3...and immediately saw macroblocking and audio issues. The Comcast tech said the signal was perfectly fine...based on his measurements and the fact that there was no macroblocking on the Comcast DVR. Once we replaced the rest of the coax the problem was resolved, even though they had said the signal was fine. It may have been acceptable to the Moto DVR (and Comcast), but it obviously wasn't adequate for TiVo.


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## PieThief

I am still having problems with my S3 + Fios.

I've had FIOS TV for a couple years, at first we had their horrible STB. However, while the UI was bad, the picture/audio was perfect 100% of the time. We purchased a S3 because I missed my S2 but and wanted Tivo while recording HD.

Had a lot of problems with 'pixelization' or whatever. It's so difficult to know by what people type if we're describing the same problems. Basically, it looks like the picture someone posted a few pages back in this thread and it's accompanied by corresponding audio drop outs. However unlike people who claim it happens a couple times an hour, with us, if it's happening it's happening every second or three, rendering a show completely unwatchable (and unlistenable).

We have run the gamut of things. Verizon testing signal strength. ("Perfect"). Resetting cable cards. Replacing cable cards. Replacing ONT box outside the house. Had the S3 tivo replaced for another one (same issue.)

The interesting thing is I discovered pretty early on that if I removed the Tivo from the setup and plugged the cable cards directly into my TV and just tuned from the TV, the signal was perfect 100% of the time. So, it's some issue with TiVo, or TiVo + FIOS but I'm not sure what. I just know that I've had perfect signals directly tuning through my TV with the cable cards, or the STB from FIOS, but plugging the same cards into the TiVO leads to crap.

Like some people, it sure seems that this happens a lot more during must see TV. I have totally missed this season of Heros because the first episode was completely fubar. The problem has gotten much worse and it seems like for the last week or so, nearly all channels are affected and I have just stopped watching TV.

I'm just angry because I paid $699 or whatever for the S3, then another $200 to transfer my lifetime to it, and I can't watch TV... or it's so horrible that I don't want to. I'm not a super uptight tv wanker either, if something occasionally skips or whatever, that's fine. But if I cannot watch one complete question being asked by larry king without the audio & picture dropping out 3 times that is unacceptable.

I've gotten to the point of just not trying anymore because I just don't have the time available to dedicate more half days off work to fix this problem. I am practically to the point of calling comcast up and trying to see if I get the problem with them, but I love the FIOS TV package (in theory) so much I really want to be able to watch it.


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## Daxel

PieThief - what is the signal strength on the cable cards when they are in the Tivo?


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## AbMagFab

PieThief said:


> I am still having problems with my S3 + Fios.
> 
> I've had FIOS TV for a couple years, at first we had their horrible STB. However, while the UI was bad, the picture/audio was perfect 100% of the time. We purchased a S3 because I missed my S2 but and wanted Tivo while recording HD.
> 
> Had a lot of problems with 'pixelization' or whatever. It's so difficult to know by what people type if we're describing the same problems. Basically, it looks like the picture someone posted a few pages back in this thread and it's accompanied by corresponding audio drop outs. However unlike people who claim it happens a couple times an hour, with us, if it's happening it's happening every second or three, rendering a show completely unwatchable (and unlistenable).
> 
> We have run the gamut of things. Verizon testing signal strength. ("Perfect"). Resetting cable cards. Replacing cable cards. Replacing ONT box outside the house. Had the S3 tivo replaced for another one (same issue.)
> 
> The interesting thing is I discovered pretty early on that if I removed the Tivo from the setup and plugged the cable cards directly into my TV and just tuned from the TV, the signal was perfect 100% of the time. So, it's some issue with TiVo, or TiVo + FIOS but I'm not sure what. I just know that I've had perfect signals directly tuning through my TV with the cable cards, or the STB from FIOS, but plugging the same cards into the TiVO leads to crap.
> 
> Like some people, it sure seems that this happens a lot more during must see TV. I have totally missed this season of Heros because the first episode was completely fubar. The problem has gotten much worse and it seems like for the last week or so, nearly all channels are affected and I have just stopped watching TV.
> 
> I'm just angry because I paid $699 or whatever for the S3, then another $200 to transfer my lifetime to it, and I can't watch TV... or it's so horrible that I don't want to. I'm not a super uptight tv wanker either, if something occasionally skips or whatever, that's fine. But if I cannot watch one complete question being asked by larry king without the audio & picture dropping out 3 times that is unacceptable.
> 
> I've gotten to the point of just not trying anymore because I just don't have the time available to dedicate more half days off work to fix this problem. I am practically to the point of calling comcast up and trying to see if I get the problem with them, but I love the FIOS TV package (in theory) so much I really want to be able to watch it.


Have you tried the multiple suggestions of attenuating the signal? This has seemed to work for almost everyone who thinks they have a good signal - it's usually too strong with FIOS.


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## bkdtv

As noted above, the pixelization on FiOS has an easy fix. You just install an attenuator.

Calling Verizon rarely does any good, because they take one look at the signal and say it is perfect. But in many cases, a "perfect" signal for Motorola boxes is too strong for the TiVo.

I'm starting to think we make this information a sticky. People call TiVo, call Verizon, request RMAs, schedule FiOS appointments, etc and that is all a *waste of time*. The box is not defective and the FiOS signal is perfectly fine for the Motorola boxes, but too strong for the TiVo. In most cases, the one and only fix is to screw a $2 attenuator onto the end of the cable. This fix takes approximately 60 seconds.


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## bkdtv

*Pixelization with Verizon FiOS: How to Fix*

Background

FiOS uses several different ONTs which provide an average signal level of +12dB to +18 dB to +24 dB. Output from the most widely used ONT (Motorola 612) is +18 dB on most channels. Output with older installations (Motorola 611) is up to +24dB.

For some reason, the output on many ONTs (or some COs?) is not linear. The output might be +14dB to +16dB on most channels, but +20 dB on others.

Verizon installers are instructed to add an attenuator to reduce the signal down to +5 dB. Some do, some don't, as the Motorola STBs and DVRs tend to work fine with mosts signals of +10 dB or less.

The Problem

Installers are taught that a signal level of +5dB is excellent. That signal is fine for the Motorola boxes, but in many cases, it is too strong for the TiVo.

With a signal level of +5dB, the majority of channels will be fine on the Tivo, but many may exhibit intermittent pixelization. On these channels, RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors increment rapidly, SNR fluctuates, and signal strength fluctuates between 100 and a lower number (such as 50).

Even with a signal level of +0dB, some channels may exhibit intermittent pixelization. In my experience, 90-95% of FiOS channels are fine with a signal level of +0 dB, but that signal level is still too strong on perhaps 5-10% of channels.

I attribute this to non-linear output from the ONT -- most channels may be +0dB but others in different frequency ranges may be +5dB higher (or more). It is these channels with higher signal levels that exhibit pixelization. FiOS uses the same frequency ranges for locals, RSNs, and other cable channels on every system across the country. It is common for the local HD channels to be in the frequencies with a higher signal level.

More often than not, calling Verizon FiOS support is not a solution, because installers take one look at the +5dB signal level and conclude that the signal is fine -- just as they are trained to do. Verizon installers do have attenuators, but they don't attenuate the signal further because they are trained on the requirements of the Motorola boxes, not the TiVos.

The Solution

The solution is to further reduce signal strength to -6dB or lower by adding an attenuator to the end of the coax cable. This does not affect the FiOS channels with lower signals levels, but it eliminates the pixelization on FiOS channels with higher signal levels. It takes about 60 seconds to install an attenuator.

Steps to Fix


 Order a pack of attenuators. These screw on to the end of the coax.

http://www.smarthome.com/7800.html

 Find a channel with pixelization.

 Once you've found a channel with pixelization, open Settings -> System Information -> Diagnostics. With this screen, you can monitor your SNR and number of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors.

Your goal is to completely eliminate the RS Uncorrected errors and the fluctuation in the SNR. A few occasional RS Corrected errors are fine; it is the RS Uncorrected Errors that indicate pixelization.

 Disconnect the coax cable from the TiVo.

Note the process of disconnecting and reconnecting the coax will result in a lot of RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected errors, but don't worry about that. Only worry about errors that increment after the cable is firmly connected.

 Most seem to require -10dB to -16dB of new attenuation. I would start with -16dB. Screw one -10dB attenuator and one -6dB attenuator onto the end of the coax cable. Then reconnect the coax back to the TiVo.

 Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?

 If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step five using one -10dB attenuator and one -2dB attenuator.

Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?

 If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step five using a single -10dB attenuator.

Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?

 If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step five using a single -6dB attenuator.

 By now, the problem will be fixed.


----------



## PieThief

Daxel said:


> PieThief - what is the signal strength on the cable cards when they are in the Tivo?


When it's working it's rock solid anywhere between 95-100, usually in the 98-100 range. When it's messed up it's pinging between these values and usually something in the 80's or 70's. When I was trying to solve this issue months ago I did notice the problem channels appeared to be in a certain frequency range (which makes sense given the explanation I'm reading here).

If I recall, the Verizon tech said our signal was +0db. I'm definitely willing to try anything though and although I missed the attenuator post, I am going to stop up at Fry's and see if I can buy some to try out tonight.

My display for corrected / uncorrected errors both display "Not Available" or something to that effect. So, I'm not sure that information will be available to me as I try the attenuators. I do see the display for SNR and it is showing values in the 30s (usually pinging around a little bit.) Is there a typical value that is 'good' for SNR on TiVo?

I will post an update if I find out more. I did stop by Best Buy and picked up a TiVo HD just to try it out and see if the problem happened on that box as well.


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## bkdtv

PieThief said:


> My display for corrected / uncorrected errors both display "Not Available" or something to that effect. So, I'm not sure that information will be available to me as I try the attenuators.


If you have software 9.x, you should see that information on the Diagnostics screen. I'm not sure it was available on releases prior to that.


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## PieThief

I hit Fry's and two separate Radio Shacks and struck out. I may have to order them online. Will post results when I get them.


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## SCSIRAID

PieThief said:


> I hit Fry's and two separate Radio Shacks and struck out. I may have to order them online. Will post results when I get them.


You can use a splitter as an attenuator and do some testing till the 'real things' arrive. An 8 way splitter is basically an 11db attenuator.


----------



## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> *Pixelization with Verizon FiOS: How to Fix*
> 
> Background
> 
> FiOS uses several different ONTs which provide an average signal level of +12dB to +18 dB to +24 dB. Output from the most widely used ONT (Motorola 612) is +18 dB on most channels. Output with older installations (Motorola 611) are up to +24dB.
> 
> For some reason, the output on many ONTs (or some COs?) is not linear. The output might be +14dB to +16dB on most channels, but +20 dB on others.
> 
> Verizon installers are instructed to add an attenuator to reduce the signal down to +5 dB. Some do, some don't, as the Motorola STBs and DVRs tend to work fine with mosts signals of +10 dB or less.
> 
> The Problem
> 
> Installers are taught that a signal level of +5dB is excellent. That signal is fine for the Motorola boxes, but in many cases, it is too strong for the TiVo.
> 
> With a signal level of +5dB, the majority of channels will be fine on the Tivo, but many may exhibit intermittent pixelization. On these channels, RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors increment rapidly, SNR fluctuates, and signal strength fluctuates between 100 and a lower number (such as 50).
> 
> Even with a signal level of +0dB, some channels may exhibit intermittent pixelization. In my experience, 90-95% of FiOS channels are fine with a signal level of +0 dB, but that signal level is still too strong on perhaps 5-10% of channels.
> 
> I attribute this to non-linear output from the ONT -- most channels may be +0dB but others in different frequency ranges may be +5dB higher (or more). It is these channels with higher signal levels that exhibit pixelization. FiOS uses the same frequency ranges for locals, RSNs, and other cable channels on every system across the country. It is common for the local HD channels to be in the frequencies with a higher signal level.
> 
> More often than not, calling Verizon FiOS support is not a solution, because installers take one look at the +5dB signal level and conclude that the signal is fine -- just as they are trained to do. Verizon installers do have attenuators, but they don't attenuate the signal further because they are trained on the requirements of the Motorola boxes, not the TiVos.
> 
> The Solution
> 
> The solution is to further reduce signal strength to -6dB or lower by adding an attenuator to the end of the coax cable. This does not affect the FiOS channels with lower signals levels, but it eliminates the pixelization on FiOS channels with higher signal levels. It takes about 60 seconds to install an attenuator.
> 
> Steps to Fix
> 
> 
> Order a pack of attenuators. These screw on to the end of the coax.
> 
> http://www.smarthome.com/7800.html
> 
> Find a channel with pixelization.
> 
> Once you've found a channel with pixelization, open Settings -> System Information -> Diagnostics. With this screen, you can monitor your SNR and number of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors.
> 
> Your goal is to completely eliminate the RS Uncorrected errors and the fluctuation in the SNR. A few occasional RS Corrected errors are fine; it is the RS Uncorrected Errors that indicate pixelization.
> 
> Disconnect the coax cable from the TiVo.
> 
> Note the process of disconnecting and reconnecting the coax will result in a lot of RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected errors, but don't worry about that. Only worry about errors that increment after the cable is firmly connected.
> 
> Most seem to require -10dB to -16dB of new attenuation. I would start with -16dB. Screw one -10dB attenuator and one -6dB attenuator onto the end of the coax cable. Then reconnect the coax back to the TiVo.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using one -10dB attenuator and one -2dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using a single -10dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using a single -6dB attenuator.
> 
> By now, the problem will be fixed.


*Agreed*, this should be placed on its own thread as a sticky.

Nice work! :up:


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## richsadams

SCSIRAID said:


> You can use a splitter as an attenuator and do some testing till the 'real things' arrive. An 8 way splitter is basically an 11db attenuator.


Heck, I had a cheapo two-way splitter that was 8db.


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## SCSIRAID

richsadams said:


> Heck, I had a cheapo two-way splitter that was 8db.


It was marked at -8 per port? or was that its acutal effect? A 2way should be minus 3.5db. Sometimes they are labeled -4db.


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## PieThief

I found many splitters and started putting them together. It did not help. I think I had two 3.5 splitters, a 7 splitter and an 11...

But I did discover something interesting. When I plugged the TiVo HD in (the new one we picked up today) the signal was not messed up. I looked at the diagnostics and the signal strength is rock solid 100. Switch everything (coax, HDMI, cable cards) back to the S3 and it's 100->77->95->60->90->etc... the signal strength changes approximately once per second. I have found two channels that it's happening on really badly right now for S3, and I switch over and it's perfect with the HD. So I guess I'm going to have to call TiVo again. I'll watch for a little while longer with the new box to be sure but I haven't seen it mess up once yet.


----------



## mchief

Just to add some more confusion. I am currently running a THD with 9.2J and have seen some macroblocking and sound drop outs. My Hitachi HDTV also has a SA cable card. My THD has a SA MCard. Using split screen, I am able to put the THD on one screen and the TV cable card on the other. I am seeing the same macroblocking on both screens. Apparently my problems are the cable or cable card (Comcast). The signal strength is 98-100, so I'm suspecting the broadcast.


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## Phantom Gremlin

bkdtv said:


> Installers are taught that a signal level of +5dB is excellent. That signal is fine for the Motorola boxes, but in many cases, it is too strong for the TiVo.


Your post is very informative. But it also has the tone of "apologizing" for TiVo. As I indicated in this posting the ANSI spec says a receiver should accept a signal anywhere in the range of -12 dBmV to +15 dBmV. If the TiVo HD can't do it, then it is a P.O.S.

I need to go back and re-read the ANSI spec. Maybe there's a section in there about going to the local Radio Shack and buying an in-line attenuator. Just in case.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Your post is very informative. But it also has the tone of "apologizing" for TiVo. As I indicated in this posting the ANSI spec says a receiver should accept a signal anywhere in the range of -12 dBmV to +15 dBmV. If the TiVo HD can't do it, then it is a P.O.S.
> 
> I need to go back and re-read the ANSI spec. Maybe there's a section in there about going to the local Radio Shack and buying an in-line attenuator. Just in case.


Based on what I have heard, I believe there is more going on with FIOS than meets the eye. The action that needs to be taken to get good results is counterintuitive. The kind of things that have to be done for FIOS dont have to be done with typical copper cable. Instead of automatically declaring Tivo guilty, perhaps a look at FIOS would be another path to consider. As to Tivo's tuner capabilities, with TWC, at one time I was driving the S3 with a +10 signal and saw no adverse effects.

Taking another path... Does anyone have any technical info on the implementation of FIOS? Are they doing a block conversion on a chunk of optical spectrum to create the 54-860 Mhz spectrum? I cant envision a bunch of individual QAM and NTSC modulators in the ONT. If they are block converting... controlling the cumulative jitter would seem to be a challenge.


----------



## richsadams

SCSIRAID said:


> It was marked at -8 per port? or was that its acutal effect? A 2way should be minus 3.5db. Sometimes they are labeled -4db.


 As you said, -4.


----------



## wbradney

bkdtv said:


> *Pixelization with Verizon FiOS: How to Fix*
> 
> Background
> 
> FiOS uses several different ONTs which provide an average signal level of +12dB to +18 dB to +24 dB. Output from the most widely used ONT (Motorola 612) is +18 dB on most channels. Output with older installations (Motorola 611) is up to +24dB.
> 
> For some reason, the output on many ONTs (or some COs?) is not linear. The output might be +14dB to +16dB on most channels, but +20 dB on others.
> 
> Verizon installers are instructed to add an attenuator to reduce the signal down to +5 dB. Some do, some don't, as the Motorola STBs and DVRs tend to work fine with mosts signals of +10 dB or less.
> 
> The Problem
> 
> Installers are taught that a signal level of +5dB is excellent. That signal is fine for the Motorola boxes, but in many cases, it is too strong for the TiVo.
> 
> With a signal level of +5dB, the majority of channels will be fine on the Tivo, but many may exhibit intermittent pixelization. On these channels, RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors increment rapidly, SNR fluctuates, and signal strength fluctuates between 100 and a lower number (such as 50).
> 
> Even with a signal level of +0dB, some channels may exhibit intermittent pixelization. In my experience, 90-95% of FiOS channels are fine with a signal level of +0 dB, but that signal level is still too strong on perhaps 5-10% of channels.
> 
> I attribute this to non-linear output from the ONT -- most channels may be +0dB but others in different frequency ranges may be +5dB higher (or more). It is these channels with higher signal levels that exhibit pixelization. FiOS uses the same frequency ranges for locals, RSNs, and other cable channels on every system across the country. It is common for the local HD channels to be in the frequencies with a higher signal level.
> 
> More often than not, calling Verizon FiOS support is not a solution, because installers take one look at the +5dB signal level and conclude that the signal is fine -- just as they are trained to do. Verizon installers do have attenuators, but they don't attenuate the signal further because they are trained on the requirements of the Motorola boxes, not the TiVos.
> 
> The Solution
> 
> The solution is to further reduce signal strength to -6dB or lower by adding an attenuator to the end of the coax cable. This does not affect the FiOS channels with lower signals levels, but it eliminates the pixelization on FiOS channels with higher signal levels. It takes about 60 seconds to install an attenuator.
> 
> Steps to Fix
> 
> 
> Order a pack of attenuators. These screw on to the end of the coax.
> 
> http://www.smarthome.com/7800.html
> 
> Find a channel with pixelization.
> 
> Once you've found a channel with pixelization, open Settings -> System Information -> Diagnostics. With this screen, you can monitor your SNR and number of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors.
> 
> Your goal is to completely eliminate the RS Uncorrected errors and the fluctuation in the SNR. A few occasional RS Corrected errors are fine; it is the RS Uncorrected Errors that indicate pixelization.
> 
> Disconnect the coax cable from the TiVo.
> 
> Note the process of disconnecting and reconnecting the coax will result in a lot of RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected errors, but don't worry about that. Only worry about errors that increment after the cable is firmly connected.
> 
> Most seem to require -10dB to -16dB of new attenuation. I would start with -16dB. Screw one -10dB attenuator and one -6dB attenuator onto the end of the coax cable. Then reconnect the coax back to the TiVo.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using one -10dB attenuator and one -2dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using a single -10dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using a single -6dB attenuator.
> 
> By now, the problem will be fixed.


This is worth a try, but it's not a panacea. I've had the pixellation on FIOS on and off since the beginning of August, after having 5 months of zero pixellation from March - August. Nothing on my system changed in August to cause the problem. I've had numerous visits from Verizon, and the signal has been attenuated with a variable attenuator until the signal disappears completely, and the pixellation was reproducible on the same fixed set of channels at any signal strength.

Verizon IS working with TiVo on this -- according to their last communication with me on my trouble ticket, they're sending a senior tech with specialized monitoring equipment out to me shortly. That guy will apparently work directly with the TiVo engineers to troubleshoot the issue.

I know of a couple of other people in various parts of the country who have similar problems.


----------



## AbMagFab

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Your post is very informative. But it also has the tone of "apologizing" for TiVo. As I indicated in this posting the ANSI spec says a receiver should accept a signal anywhere in the range of -12 dBmV to +15 dBmV. If the TiVo HD can't do it, then it is a P.O.S.
> 
> I need to go back and re-read the ANSI spec. Maybe there's a section in there about going to the local Radio Shack and buying an in-line attenuator. Just in case.


Then return it.

Alternatively, if you want to get it to work, add in-line attenuation to get the SNR down to 31/32.


----------



## TimAtkins1

I've attenuated my signal down so SNR is around 32 - no more pixellation or macroblocking or RS incrementing.

Because I could not locally purchase attenuators, I took the signal down about 11db by running the signal serially through 3.5db and 7.5db splitters. Other than being inelegant, is there is any issue with using multiple splitters as compared to dedicated attenuators?


----------



## SCSIRAID

TimAtkins1 said:


> I've attenuated my signal down so SNR is around 32 - no more pixellation or macroblocking or RS incrementing.
> 
> Because I could not locally purchase attenuators, I took the signal down about 11db by running the signal serially through 3.5db and 7.5db splitters. Other than being inelegant, is there is any issue with using multiple splitters as compared to dedicated attenuators?


Leaving all those unused taps open might allow egress or ingress and lead to interference... but there is always the old saying... if it aint broke, dont fix it. The engineer in me would want to do it with proper attenuators... or at least terminate the open outputs of the splitters.


----------



## TimAtkins1

SCSIRAID said:


> Leaving all those unused taps open might allow egress or ingress and lead to interference... but there is always the old saying... if it aint broke, dont fix it. The engineer in me would want to do it with proper attenuators... or at least terminate the open outputs of the splitters.


I terminated the open splits right from the start. Thanks.


----------



## AbMagFab

TimAtkins1 said:


> I've attenuated my signal down so SNR is around 32 - no more pixellation or macroblocking or RS incrementing.
> 
> Because I could not locally purchase attenuators, I took the signal down about 11db by running the signal serially through 3.5db and 7.5db splitters. Other than being inelegant, is there is any issue with using multiple splitters as compared to dedicated attenuators?


The low-quality splitters might also screw with signal strength non-linearly, so you might find variability with some channels.

You can buy in-line attenuators at places like smarthome, for like $2 each. They come in -3db, -6db, -10db, -20db, and I think some others.

I bought a bunch and just fiddled with each Tivo until I got to the right SNR. I chose not to do it at the source, but for no particular reason other than I wanted as strong a signal as possible right to the destination. My "gut" felt better that way.


----------



## SCSIRAID

AbMagFab said:


> The low-quality splitters might also screw with signal strength non-linearly, so you might find variability with some channels.
> 
> You can buy in-line attenuators at places like smarthome, for like $2 each. They come in -3db, -6db, -10db, -20db, and I think some others.
> 
> I bought a bunch and just fiddled with each Tivo until I got to the right SNR. I chose not to do it at the source, but for no particular reason other than I wanted as strong a signal as possible right to the destination. My "gut" felt better that way.


How much 'wiggle room' did you end up with? Can you take out 2db of attenuation or add 3-4db of attenuation and still work OK?


----------



## AbMagFab

SCSIRAID said:


> How much 'wiggle room' did you end up with? Can you take out 2db of attenuation or add 3-4db of attenuation and still work OK?


It's pretty coarse, if that's what you mean. Taking out 3db vs. 6db often didn't make a ton of difference in SNR, so I tended to err on the more attenuation side of things.


----------



## SCSIRAID

AbMagFab said:


> It's pretty coarse, if that's what you mean. Taking out 3db vs. 6db often didn't make a ton of difference in SNR, so I tended to err on the more attenuation side of things.


I was thinking of functioning properly vs SNR. So if you added or removed 3-6db of attenuation... would it still work 'ok' ie no pixelation or other 'problems'?


----------



## AbMagFab

SCSIRAID said:


> I was thinking of functioning properly vs SNR. So if you added or removed 3-6db of attenuation... would it still work 'ok' ie no pixelation or other 'problems'?


Ah, I see. The magic number definitely seems to be 31 SNR. Anything higher, and you get pixellation/increasing RS Uncorrected. 31/32 was as high as I could get. 32/33 pixellation was back.

So attenuate until you hit that magic number!


----------



## lrhorer

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Your post is very informative. But it also has the tone of "apologizing" for TiVo. As I indicated in this posting the ANSI spec says a receiver should accept a signal anywhere in the range of -12 dBmV to +15 dBmV. If the TiVo HD can't do it, then it is a P.O.S.


That is the ANSI spec, and it means just what it says. The receiver should be able to receive a signal on a single carrier witin the -12 dBmV to +15 dBmV range with the specified bit errror rate (usually about 1 bit error per million or billion bits). This does *NOT* mean the receiver will be able to reliably receive any signal on any medium where the channel in question is within that range. Very few if any consumer grade receivers, for example, could manage to reliably receive a signal on one channel at 0 dBmV if the adjacent channels are both coming in at +25dB mV. Similarly, the amount of 2nd and 3rd order distortions in the receiver itself climb rapidly as the number of channels and the total input power increases. If the CATV plant in question is delivering a full +15 dBmV wall to wall on 170 carriers, then any receiver would croak. Indeed, that level of signal may be enough to actually damage or even destroy some receivers. It amounts to 0.36 watts, which is enough to make a 1/8 or even 1/4 watt resistor mighty hot on most circuit boards. Even if not, no receiver has a common mode rejection that high across the entire 50MHz - 1000MHz band, and those sorts of broadband levels will drive any receiver insane. It's a lot like trying to hear someone scream at you at a rock concert right in front of one of the stage monitors. No matter how loud they scream, you won't be able to understand them.

So is there an answer? Yes, there is. An optimum signal level would be where the lowest carrier in the band is 3dB higher than the lowest level at which the receiver can reliably receive that same channel. Any lower and the chances the signal may drift down to the point whrere reception becomes an issue start to rise sharply. There is no benefit whatsoever to increasing the signal level beyond this point. Therefore the best situation would be to arrange for the signal on the lowest level carrier to be about -9 dBmV and no higher than about -6 dBmV. The spectrum ideally should also be fairly flat. If the highest level carrier is more than 10dB higher than the lowest level carrier, then it is not unlikely your CATV provider may have a problem on their plant. Have them verify this. If not, then a tilt compensator may be in order. Since in the event the situation probably derives from being way at the end of the CATV cascade and having a very long subscriber drop, it's likely there may be a residential amplifier involved, and many high quality residential CATV amplifiers have variable tilt compensators built in.


----------



## lrhorer

AbMagFab said:


> Alternatively, if you want to get it to work, add in-line attenuation to get the SNR down to 31/32.


This is not quite correct. It may be true for a CATV spectrum profile similar to yours the optimum signal level may be found when the S/N is about 32. This does not mean it will be optimum for everyone. The S/N is affected by a large number of factors and the optimum S/N depends on the total number of carriers, in-band flatness, noise level on the CATV plant, and the receiver sensitivity. The assumption your plant configuration is typical may or may not be true, and the typical plant profile may not relate to the CATV profile of any particular user. That said, they can try your recommendation as a starting point and refine it from there.


----------



## lrhorer

SCSIRAID said:


> Leaving all those unused taps open might allow egress or ingress and lead to interference... but there is always the old saying... if it aint broke, dont fix it. The engineer in me would want to do it with proper attenuators... or at least terminate the open outputs of the splitters.


Actually, improperly terminated (i.e. loose) terminators will cause more ingress / egress than none at all, so make sure the terminators are tight. They need to be snug when tightened with a small wrench. It should not be possible to remove them with the fingers. Don't get too excited with the wrench, though, or you can break off a port.

There is another big reason to terminate any spliter ports, however: flatness. You would be appalled to see what unterminated ports will do the the signal levels on the other ports of a splitter. In some cases it can cause an attenuation of over 10dB to some parts of the spectrum, or even possibly just to one or two channels. It's also not possible to predict very well which part of the spectrum will be affected or how much. It depends on the lengths of the attached cables.


----------



## lrhorer

TimAtkins1 said:


> Because I could not locally purchase attenuators, I took the signal down about 11db by running the signal serially through 3.5db and 7.5db splitters. Other than being inelegant, is there is any issue with using multiple splitters as compared to dedicated attenuators?


Yes, there can be - maybe. Of course the mere fact there are more connectors in the equation means there are more single points of failure, and connectors are right up there in the list of things most likely to cause problems. That's not to say they will, but they can. If the connectors are of good quality and their installation is done properly, they shouldn't cause many problems.

The problems they can cause include ingress and ghosting due to low return loss issues, especially if the connectors are bad or loose.

In addition, while the splitters are said to increase the "flat loss" (properly termed attenuation), the fact is their response is not flat. Every splitter looses more at higher frequencies than at low frequencies. At 50MHz, a hihg quality 2 way splitter will lose very close to 3.5 dB between the input and output. At 1000MHz, the number may exceed 4.5dB. Multiple splitters will of course loose even more at the high end compared to the low end. Now if your subscriber tap happens to be fairly close to an amplifier, then this isn't going to have a significantly bad impact. Indeed, it may even make the signal better, because close to an amplifier the high frequencies are also going to be high in level, and multiple splitters will provide some welcome - although not really necessary - tilt compensation. Further towards the end of the subscriber plant the high frequencioes are going to be much lower in level already than the low frequncies, and the additinal equalization from the splitters can cause the highest channels to be too low in level.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

lrhorer said:


> Very few if any consumer grade receivers, for example, could manage to reliably receive a signal on one channel at 0 dBmV if the adjacent channels are both coming in at +25dB mV.


Your explanation is interesting in general cable terms. However the discussion I was replying to was in the context of FiOS and an ONT on the side of the house. I would expect the ONT output to be balanced to within a few dB. Also hopefully we don't need to worry about things like "tilt" since in most FiOS installations the coax is very short (compared to a cable plant).


----------



## SCSIRAID

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Your explanation is interesting in general cable terms. However the discussion I was replying to was in the context of FiOS and an ONT on the side of the house. I would expect the ONT output to be balanced to within a few dB. Also hopefully we don't need to worry about things like "tilt" since in most FiOS installations the coax is very short (compared to a cable plant).


It would seem a reasonable expectation... but is it met? Tilt could also come from the source itself or from off the shelf components with tilt compensation that isnt required. I certainly dont know.

I would like to find a good explanation of how FiOS generates its 50-860 Mhz output. Block converter? It could also be interesting to see what comes out of the ONT above 860 and below 50Mhz... given the shouting next to the concert speaker line of thought.


----------



## fergie8

bkdtv said:


> ...
> Verizon installers are instructed to add an attenuator to reduce the signal down to +5 dB. Some do, some don't, as the Motorola STBs and DVRs tend to work fine with mosts signals of +10 dB or less.
> 
> The Problem
> 
> Installers are taught that a signal level of +5dB is excellent. That signal is fine for the Motorola boxes, but in many cases, it is too strong for the TiVo.
> 
> With a signal level of +5dB, the majority of channels will be fine on the Tivo, but many may exhibit intermittent pixelization. On these channels, RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors increment rapidly, SNR fluctuates, and signal strength fluctuates between 100 and a lower number (such as 50).
> ...


I have that problem on my new TiVo HD, however my cable company is RCN.

So, what constitutes too hot a signal in terms of the data I can read on my tivo's Diagnostics screen?

Channels that are causing intermittent pixelization problems for me have signal strengths in the range of 87-93 with occasional peaks up to 100. The signal to noise ratio (SNR) display for those channels sits around 35-36 dB. Might those values be considered too high? If so, what range of values should I be trying to hit when I start adding attenuation?

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## SCSIRAID

fergie8 said:


> I have that problem on my new TiVo HD, however my cable company is RCN.
> 
> So, what constitutes too hot a signal in terms of the data I can read on my tivo's Diagnostics screen?
> 
> Channels that are causing intermittent pixelization problems for me have signal strengths in the range of 87-93 with occasional peaks up to 100. The signal to noise ratio (SNR) display for those channels sits around 35-36 dB. Might those values be considered too high? If so, what range of values should I be trying to hit when I start adding attenuation?
> 
> Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


The peaks to 100 would be what would concern me. The final arbitor as to when its 'right' would be the RS Uncorrected value staying at zero and no visable pixelation. Given the peaks to 100, I would suggest attenuating 3 to 6 db and see what happens. 'Typical wisdom' would be to look for stable mid 80 to mid 90's signal strength with SNR around 34db. Note that typical wisdom can be wrong so its just a starting point. FiOS is one proof point of this.


----------



## AbMagFab

fergie8 said:


> I have that problem on my new TiVo HD, however my cable company is RCN.
> 
> So, what constitutes too hot a signal in terms of the data I can read on my tivo's Diagnostics screen?
> 
> Channels that are causing intermittent pixelization problems for me have signal strengths in the range of 87-93 with occasional peaks up to 100. The signal to noise ratio (SNR) display for those channels sits around 35-36 dB. Might those values be considered too high? If so, what range of values should I be trying to hit when I start adding attenuation?
> 
> Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


The magic SNR for FIOS is 31/32. Not sure if that would also work for other "hot" cable connections, but it's worth a try, as it's easy to test.


----------



## PaulRuby

My experience, in case it helps anyone...

Two Tivo S3 on Comcast in Sacramento. Pixelation started on one Tivo about two months ago and has gotten progressively worse. The other tivo is fine. Finally, watching Sunday Night Football was unbearable. And, I was starting to get some pixelation on downloaded content (tivocast). So, I figured it must be the HDD. However, I checked signal strength on ESPN-HD and it was a little low (SNR 29-30, Signal 63-69). I decided to upgrade the hard drive to see if that would help anyway. Went from a Seagate barracuda 750gb to seagate barracuda 1TB. All pixelation is gone. And here's the annoying thing. The signal strength now shows perfect on all channels. This seems an incredible coincidence. I checked just before and just after changing the HDD and signal went from marginal to perfect. I'm pretty much convinced my HDD was the primary issue but I don't understand the signal strength wierdness. 

Key thing: the HDD might be the problem for more folks than we might think, even if the signal strength looks a bit marginal.


----------



## bkdtv

PaulRuby said:


> My experience, in case it helps anyone...
> 
> Two Tivo S3 on Comcast in Sacramento. Pixelation started on one Tivo about two months ago and has gotten progressively worse. The other tivo is fine. Finally, watching Sunday Night Football was unbearable. And, I was starting to get some pixelation on downloaded content (tivocast). So, I figured it must be the HDD. However, I checked signal strength on ESPN-HD and it was a little low (SNR 29-30, Signal 63-69). I decided to upgrade the hard drive to see if that would help anyway. Went from a Seagate barracuda 750gb to seagate barracuda 1TB. All pixelation is gone. And here's the annoying thing. The signal strength now shows perfect on all channels. This seems an incredible coincidence. I checked just before and just after changing the HDD and signal went from marginal to perfect. I'm pretty much convinced my HDD was the primary issue but I don't understand the signal strength wierdness.
> 
> Key thing: the HDD might be the problem for more folks than we might think, even if the signal strength looks a bit marginal.


Sounds like your previous drive upgrade caused some sort of interference.


----------



## PaulRuby

bkdtv said:


> Sounds like your previous drive upgrade caused some sort of interference.


Yes it does... But it took a year to go bad. Was great for ~8 months then spent 4 months getting to the unbearable point. Now is great again with the 1TB drive. I sprung for the more expensive 24-7 version of the drive (NS instead of AS suffix) so I hope that means it'll survive longer than a year.


----------



## Berone

bkdtv said:


> *Pixelization with Verizon FiOS: How to Fix*
> 
> Background
> 
> FiOS uses several different ONTs which provide an average signal level of +12dB to +18 dB to +24 dB. Output from the most widely used ONT (Motorola 612) is +18 dB on most channels. Output with older installations (Motorola 611) is up to +24dB.
> 
> For some reason, the output on many ONTs (or some COs?) is not linear. The output might be +14dB to +16dB on most channels, but +20 dB on others.
> 
> Verizon installers are instructed to add an attenuator to reduce the signal down to +5 dB. Some do, some don't, as the Motorola STBs and DVRs tend to work fine with mosts signals of +10 dB or less.
> 
> The Problem
> 
> Installers are taught that a signal level of +5dB is excellent. That signal is fine for the Motorola boxes, but in many cases, it is too strong for the TiVo.
> 
> With a signal level of +5dB, the majority of channels will be fine on the Tivo, but many may exhibit intermittent pixelization. On these channels, RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors increment rapidly, SNR fluctuates, and signal strength fluctuates between 100 and a lower number (such as 50).
> 
> Even with a signal level of +0dB, some channels may exhibit intermittent pixelization. In my experience, 90-95% of FiOS channels are fine with a signal level of +0 dB, but that signal level is still too strong on perhaps 5-10% of channels.
> 
> I attribute this to non-linear output from the ONT -- most channels may be +0dB but others in different frequency ranges may be +5dB higher (or more). It is these channels with higher signal levels that exhibit pixelization. FiOS uses the same frequency ranges for locals, RSNs, and other cable channels on every system across the country. It is common for the local HD channels to be in the frequencies with a higher signal level.
> 
> More often than not, calling Verizon FiOS support is not a solution, because installers take one look at the +5dB signal level and conclude that the signal is fine -- just as they are trained to do. Verizon installers do have attenuators, but they don't attenuate the signal further because they are trained on the requirements of the Motorola boxes, not the TiVos.
> 
> The Solution
> 
> The solution is to further reduce signal strength to -6dB or lower by adding an attenuator to the end of the coax cable. This does not affect the FiOS channels with lower signals levels, but it eliminates the pixelization on FiOS channels with higher signal levels. It takes about 60 seconds to install an attenuator.
> 
> Steps to Fix
> 
> 
> Order a pack of attenuators. These screw on to the end of the coax.
> 
> http://www.smarthome.com/7800.html
> 
> Find a channel with pixelization.
> 
> Once you've found a channel with pixelization, open Settings -> System Information -> Diagnostics. With this screen, you can monitor your SNR and number of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors.
> 
> Your goal is to completely eliminate the RS Uncorrected errors and the fluctuation in the SNR. A few occasional RS Corrected errors are fine; it is the RS Uncorrected Errors that indicate pixelization.
> 
> Disconnect the coax cable from the TiVo.
> 
> Note the process of disconnecting and reconnecting the coax will result in a lot of RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected errors, but don't worry about that. Only worry about errors that increment after the cable is firmly connected.
> 
> Most seem to require -10dB to -16dB of new attenuation. I would start with -16dB. Screw one -10dB attenuator and one -6dB attenuator onto the end of the coax cable. Then reconnect the coax back to the TiVo.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using one -10dB attenuator and one -2dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using a single -10dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step four using a single -6dB attenuator.
> 
> By now, the problem will be fixed.


My FIOS installation to a new S3 went flawlessly. I followed instructions from another thread to walk the installer through the process. Unfortunately I only verified that I had signal - I didn't check for pixelezation. Later in the day I started seeing the problem and started testing things. It was bad - on almost all channels, but worst on the HD channels. On the worst channels the signal bounced from 100 to 72 to 0 and all around that. The SNR bounced from 32 to 38, and the RS uncorrected was rising constantly. As I was unwilling to use FIOS without Tivo I only have 15 days to fix it or dump it. Calling FIOS tech support yielded the "we don't support Tivo" response. Trying to find attenuators locally was a flop and I didn't have time to order online. Fortunately I occasionally work for CBS and a tech at the broadcast center hooked me up. I got two 10 db and two 6 db attenuators from him, and there was already a 3 db that the installer used. The CBS tech told me that if I used 20 db of attenuation I wouldn't get any signal at all. So I followed the directions above - first 16 db and then working down to 6 db. The best was at 16, but there was still pixellezation. So I went up to 20 db. The tech I spoke to was wrong. While the signal still jumps around from the low 70's to 90 and the SNR jumps from 31 to 35, the RS uncorrected is 0. I'll continue to test it over the next few days, but now it looks good. The best part is the message I got from Verizon tonight making sure that everything went well after the installation. Yeah, you can bet I'll be returning that call! Thanks, bkdtv, for posting this information - happy to have the new service and Tivo!


----------



## kpepling

I installed my attenuators and I was able to lower my SNR but no matter what I do it will not stay stable. It jumps around from 31-32 and I still get some pixelization. I don't have any real drop outs just some issues where the picture gets messy but not the sound. That is using 16db and when I tried 20db I got an unstable picture.


----------



## bkdtv

kpepling said:


> I installed my attenuators and I was able to lower my SNR but no matter what I do it will not stay stable. It jumps around from 31-32 and I still get some pixelization. I don't have any real drop outs just some issues where the picture gets messy but not the sound. That is using 16db and when I tried 20db I got an unstable picture.


You might need more or less attenuation. You'll rarely get the right amount on the first try.

There is a 3-4dB range that will eliminate pixelization. Too much attenuation will give you a weak signal, too little attenuation won't resolve the problem on all channels.

You might try 18dB and 14dB.


----------



## rlintacoma

I was really concerned about the pixelation problem which was particularly bad on one or two channels and by some HD channels which mysteriously disappeared last week.

Poking around on this thread, it seems lots of people have the problem and are having mixed results getting it fixed. I guess I am one of the lucky ones and both problems were fixed with a short visit from the Comcast tech.

My cable ran from the wall through my rather expensive surge protector and then into TIVO. It has done this since I first got an HD TV and when I used Comcast's crappy Motorola cable box/DVR. But the pixelation problem began about a month ago. The tech took the cable out of the surge protector and put high end connectors on the cable. *My pixelation is gone.* And my missing channels came back as well. His explanation: the surge protector was causing the pixelation problems and the better connectors fixed the missing channels. I don't know if he knows what he is talking about or not, but my problems went away.


----------



## kpepling

bkdtv said:


> You might need more or less attenuation. You'll rarely get the right amount on the first try.
> 
> There is a 3-4dB range that will eliminate pixelization. Too much attenuation will give you a weak signal, too little attenuation won't resolve the problem on all channels.
> 
> You might try 18dB and 14dB.


I've tried 13db, 15db, 16db, 18db, 19db, & 20db. None of those have worked. I can't seem to find either 2db or 1db attenuators to be able to test 14db & 17db. Anyone know where I might find one or is willing to sell me one?


----------



## bkdtv

kpepling said:


> I've tried 13db, 15db, 16db, 18db, 19db, & 20db. None of those have worked. I can't seem to find either 2db or 1db attenuators to be able to test 14db & 17db. Anyone know where I might find one or is willing to sell me one?


The attenuator pack I linked includes 2x -20dB, 2x -10dB, 2x -6dB, and 2x -2dB attenuators for $12.99.

_Edit: It includes 2x -3dB attenuators, not 2x -2dB attenuators._


----------



## kpepling

bkdtv said:


> The attenuator pack I linked includes 2x -20dB, 2x -10dB, 2x -6dB, and 2x -2dB attenuators for $12.99.


I bought that pack and it includes 2x 3db attenuators not 2db.


----------



## bkdtv

kpepling said:


> I bought that pack and it includes 2x 3db attenuators not 2db.


Ooops, thanks.


----------



## SMB-IL

PaulRuby said:


> My experience, in case it helps anyone...
> 
> Two Tivo S3 on Comcast in Sacramento. Pixelation started on one Tivo about two months ago and has gotten progressively worse. The other tivo is fine. Finally, watching Sunday Night Football was unbearable. And, I was starting to get some pixelation on downloaded content (tivocast). So, I figured it must be the HDD. However, I checked signal strength on ESPN-HD and it was a little low (SNR 29-30, Signal 63-69). I decided to upgrade the hard drive to see if that would help anyway. Went from a Seagate barracuda 750gb to seagate barracuda 1TB. All pixelation is gone. And here's the annoying thing. The signal strength now shows perfect on all channels. This seems an incredible coincidence. I checked just before and just after changing the HDD and signal went from marginal to perfect. I'm pretty much convinced my HDD was the primary issue but I don't understand the signal strength wierdness.
> 
> Key thing: the HDD might be the problem for more folks than we might think, even if the signal strength looks a bit marginal.


I told a friend of mine who has had TiVo since it first came out about my sudden pixellating problems on the S3 and although he doesn't have any contact with online forums and is just an average TiVo user, told me to delete programs from my Recently Deleted list and the pixel problems would go away. I was highly skeptical after reading here, but I did and it worked. Shows recorded before I permanently deleted Recently Deleted are pixelled and shows recorded after are not. I'm planning to upgrade the HDD, but I thought maybe this might help someone else in the meantime. My signal strengths are in the 65-75 bracket both before and after.

Maybe TiVo needs to consider telling the system where to write data because it seems as though some of the problem might be that the drive is being written to the same spot all the time? I don't know, but opening the system up to using other areas of the drive really solved my problem for the time being.

Happy Turkey Day everyone!!


----------



## richsadams

SMB-IL said:


> I told a friend of mine who has had TiVo since it first came out about my sudden pixellating problems on the S3 and although he doesn't have any contact with online forums and is just an average TiVo user, told me to delete programs from my Recently Deleted list and the pixel problems would go away. I was highly skeptical after reading here, but I did and it worked. Shows recorded before I permanently deleted Recently Deleted are pixelled and shows recorded after are not. I'm planning to upgrade the HDD, but I thought maybe this might help someone else in the meantime. My signal strengths are in the 65-75 bracket both before and after.
> 
> Maybe TiVo needs to consider telling the system where to write data because it seems as though some of the problem might be that the drive is being written to the same spot all the time? I don't know, but opening the system up to using other areas of the drive really solved my problem for the time being.
> 
> Happy Turkey Day everyone!!


The Recently Deleted folder seemed to be an issue back in May/June when we were first adding expansion drives to the S3's. There were reports of slowdowns and other problems when the RD folder filled up. This was with v8.1x and v8.3x. Some suggested that the partition /var(?) that is used to index the RD files was too small to handle the "extra volume" at the time.

I found that keeping the RD folder empty made everything run normally but that when I let it fill up (200+ recordings) TiVo became sluggish and unresponsive at some points.

Since receiving v9.2.j and subsequently v9.2a I'm letting the RD folder fill up again based on the premise that with eSATA support TiVo could/should have modified the software to handle the additional indexing "load". I haven't seen any slow-downs or other problems but the RD folder is only up to about 62 recordings so far. I do see the odd and very brief macroblocking or audio drop now and then but nothing unexpected w/HD broadcasts.

It would be interesting if deleting everything in the RD folder helps anyone else that has macroblocking or other problems.

BTW, since there isn't a "delete all" option for the RD folder, the fastest way to clear it out is to open the folder, highlight a recording and click the "clear" (TiVo remote bottom left) then "select" buttons.


----------



## thenorthman

Well kind of aggravating but in the same breath can not complain to much.

Since an upgrade that allowed us to be able to transfer shows between our two Series 3 HD boxes I am now getting pixel problems on the "downstairs" HD box.

Which means, in theory, that it has something to do with TIVO rather than my cable company since it was immediately after the upgrade.

Any suggestions?

Sean


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## gjlloyd

just got my 2 cable cards installed in ashburn, VA. new HDTIVO ( from amazon for $250!)

it went well and the tech was very cool. he joked several times about 'giving us one more chance before you switch to tivo'  

no pixelation so far.


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## dslunceford

gjlloyd said:


> just got my 2 cable cards installed in ashburn, VA. new HDTIVO ( from amazon for $250!)
> 
> it went well and the tech was very cool. he joked several times about 'giving us one more chance before you switch to tivo'
> 
> no pixelation so far.


Had mine done Wed. here in Sterling/Cascades....getting some blocking, espec. on Food Network. I'm at 36db...ordering some attenuators


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## dslunceford

OK, here's the weird thing....watching 144, Food Network. No issues with blocking *UNTIL* there's a button press from the TiVo remote. Right on Dpad, volume, FF, whatever, it starts the pic blocking. Will taking down the db to 0 or -6 help with this issue?


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## SMB-IL

It seems I posted too soon.... Clearing the RD folder didn't REALLY help, it just seemed to for a day or two. Comcast was out yesterday to see why after I upgraded the drive with one from Weaknees, I lost HBO, Showtime and Encore from my cablecards -- now one works and one doesn't, but that's another story. I also mentioned the pixelation and the service guy (straight out of "Twin Peaks", by the way) kept reporting to his dispatch that my signal was too strong. He put a tap on the line and the pixelation seems to have dropped a bit, but not completely. I live in a 24 unit apartment building and he commented that the signal was probably boosted for that reason.

On the work order, he wrote that the levels for the CPE (which I believe is "Customer Premise Equipment") are a high of +20.8 and a low of +23.9. I happened to have kept the work order from when the cablecards for the Series 3 were originally installed and those readings (a little over a year ago) are a high of +7 and a low of +3. I know next to nothing about the magic of digital cable, but a year ago, my picture and signals were perfect and now they're pixeled -- even after the new HDD.

Anyone that knows cable TV: would an attenuator or two to bring the signal strength back down to the 7/3 range help with the pixelation?


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## ingenue007

when i have pixelation issues, it makes my tivo reboot. then when i reach that spot it will reboot again. to get by it, i can fwd past that spot and then rewind somewhere ahead of the pixelation and watch it fine.

is this common with everyone else?


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## wbradney

ingenue007 said:


> when i have pixelation issues, it makes my tivo reboot. then when i reach that spot it will reboot again. to get by it, i can fwd past that spot and then rewind somewhere ahead of the pixelation and watch it fine.
> 
> is this common with everyone else?


That sounds like a hard drive failure.


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## bweeston

I just recently bought the Tivo HD box. I do not have any cable cards in it yet. But for the last 5 days, I've been transferring some high definition videos captured from MY HD capture card in a PC. Those videos are clean with no pixelation during playback on my PC. After transferring them to the THD and while playing them back, the pixelation occurs rather frequently and affects the sound output. These are HD with 5.1 audio captures. No solutions, but wanted all to know that this pixelation issue occurs without cable cards installed and while watching video not necessarily Live TV or TV recorded on the THD. I've also upgrade my hard drive space using the Tivo endorsed Western Digital My DVR Expander.


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## richsadams

ingenue007 said:


> when i have pixelation issues, it makes my tivo reboot. then when i reach that spot it will reboot again. to get by it, i can fwd past that spot and then rewind somewhere ahead of the pixelation and watch it fine.
> 
> is this common with everyone else?


As *wbradney *mentioned, that does have the earmarks of a hard drive issue. You might want to run TiVo's diagnostic "kickstart 57" to see if that will clear things up.


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## richsadams

bweeston said:


> I just recently bought the Tivo HD box. I do not have any cable cards in it yet. But for the last 5 days, I've been transferring some high definition videos captured from MY HD capture card in a PC. Those videos are clean with no pixelation during playback on my PC. After transferring them to the THD and while playing them back, the pixelation occurs rather frequently and affects the sound output. These are HD with 5.1 audio captures. No solutions, but wanted all to know that this pixelation issue occurs without cable cards installed and while watching video not necessarily Live TV or TV recorded on the THD. I've also upgrade my hard drive space using the Tivo endorsed Western Digital My DVR Expander.


I've had the same issue w/TiVoComeBack on HD programs. In fact I've seen issues going both ways w/HD content. It doesn't always happen (either way) but it seems like the HD content is very prone to problems when it is moved around. Sometimes I can reboot my router and it cleans things up. I don't blame it on TiVo though as I also have a PC HD DVR setup and I've seen the exact same things there.


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## dslunceford

Should I install the attenuators at the input to each box, or can I do it downstream? My signal goes from ONT to switch that feeds upstairs S2, then a line that goes to a 3-output splitter, with two of those lines feeding two separate THDs. 

Both THDs show db levels of roughly +35, but I've only noticed pixels on one box, though I see uncorrected errors on both in diagnostics (granted, I'm not watching the second box on a daily basis as its my media room with Projector and only gets weekend use for most part.


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## egorss78

I just recently started to get pixelation on one channel in particular(NBC HD). Ever other channel seems fine. I rebooted the Tivo and it seems to clear up for an hour or so. I am about to call Comcast, but have a feeling they will say it is the tivo. Any troubleshooting ideas I should try?


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## SMB-IL

Can anyone explain how it is that Comcast is saying that my signal is too strong (20.8 - 23.9) and yet the channels with the worst pixelating are the ones with the lowest signal strength on the TiVo signal strength meter? Is Comcast's signal strength related to what shows on the TiVo?

The signal was SO bad this morning that most of the channels just showed a black screen, except the channels that have been historically the strongest signals like MTV-HD, ESPN-HD, and MOJO-HD. I've tried the attenuators on the cable line and that only made it worse. I'm kind of at a loss....


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## SCSIRAID

SMB-IL said:


> Can anyone explain how it is that Comcast is saying that my signal is too strong (20.8 - 23.9) and yet the channels with the worst pixelating are the ones with the lowest signal strength on the TiVo signal strength meter? Is Comcast's signal strength related to what shows on the TiVo?
> 
> The signal was SO bad this morning that most of the channels just showed a black screen, except the channels that have been historically the strongest signals like MTV-HD, ESPN-HD, and MOJO-HD. I've tried the attenuators on the cable line and that only made it worse. I'm kind of at a loss....


Where are you getting the 20.8/23.9 numbers? What are the units? dbm?
Are you sure these arent signal to noise ratio numbers? SNR.

20dbm from a cablecompany is a HUGE signal level.... and would probably drive the tuner crazy. Like lhorer said... it would be like trying to scream and talk to someone standing next to a concert speaker. Adding attenuation should help. However a 20db SNR is horrible. Adding attenuation in this case would hurt. The Tivo should be showing a signal strength in the 80's or 90's with an SNR in the mid 30's.


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## btwyx

SMB-IL said:


> Can anyone explain how it is that Comcast is saying that my signal is too strong (20.8 - 23.9) and yet the channels with the worst pixelating are the ones with the lowest signal strength on the TiVo signal strength meter? Is Comcast's signal strength related to what shows on the TiVo?


The TiVo is a measure of signal quality. If the signal is too strong, the tuner overloads and can not recover the bits, the quality is lower. So increasing the actual signal strength can reduce the signal "strength" as reported by the TiVo.

If too much signal is your problem, that's the easiest thing to fix with an attenuator.


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## wilhouse

attenuation only seems to work for some people, and I have heard that it is those with FIOS (fiber optic) systems.

I have RG6 from comcast, and I purchased a slew of attenuators. There was no appreciable difference from unattenuated at 34-35 to attenuated (32, 31 and below 31).

wilhouse


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## dslunceford

dslunceford said:


> OK, here's the weird thing....watching 144, Food Network. No issues with blocking *UNTIL* there's a button press from the TiVo remote. Right on Dpad, volume, FF, whatever, it starts the pic blocking. Will taking down the db to 0 or -6 help with this issue?


OK, well with my FiOS setup, attenuation doesn't work. Anything greater than -10db attenuator kills the signal totally. -10 takes me down to roughly +27db SNR and still get uncorrected errors. Here's the thing though...on one THD box, there's absolutely no problems or pixelization that I've seen. Running diagnostics on both THD boxes at same time and one is fine but the other will block/pixel whenever you press a button on the TiVo (both lines are fed from the same splitter. This has to be something to do with the boxes themselves and/or the software...but it's really strange it's some boxes and not others.


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## AbMagFab

dslunceford said:


> OK, well with my FiOS setup, attenuation doesn't work. Anything greater than -10db attenuator kills the signal totally. -10 takes me down to roughly +27db SNR and still get uncorrected errors. Here's the thing though...on one THD box, there's absolutely no problems or pixelization that I've seen. Running diagnostics on both THD boxes at same time and one is fine but the other will block/pixel whenever you press a button on the TiVo (both lines are fed from the same splitter. This has to be something to do with the boxes themselves and/or the software...but it's really strange it's some boxes and not others.


More likely, it's your cabling, as that's the main difference, and most likely to effect signal quality.

If you really think it's the box, try swapping boxes, and see if the problem follows the box, or stays with the location.


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## dslunceford

AbMagFab said:


> More likely, it's your cabling, as that's the main difference, and most likely to effect signal quality.
> 
> If you really think it's the box, try swapping boxes, and see if the problem follows the box, or stays with the location.


The reason I think its the boxes is 1) the cabling is the same to both locations and 2) both boxes show roughly the same signal strength and number of uncorrected errors at the same time when on the same channels, but box 1 will be blocking and box 2 handles it with no issues.

When I say "roughly the same" I'm running up and down stairs to view each box diagnostic screen on the same channel at the same time, not true side by side 

I was lucky enough to win a THD in a contest that should arrive soon. I might just swap it out for the one having the issues.

The other thing that is wacky is that the FiOS signal itself must change a bit. When watching the issue over the past couple of days, the problem box has had no blocking and when doing diagnostics on the same channels that typically block (such as Food 144), at the same db and signal strengths as last night, I was getting 0 uncorrected errors for 2-4 days straight -- just last night the problem cropped up again.


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## AbMagFab

dslunceford said:


> The reason I think its the boxes is 1) the cabling is the same to both locations and 2) both boxes show roughly the same signal strength and number of uncorrected errors at the same time when on the same channels, but box 1 will be blocking and box 2 handles it with no issues.
> 
> When I say "roughly the same" I'm running up and down stairs to view each box diagnostic screen on the same channel at the same time, not true side by side
> 
> I was lucky enough to win a THD in a contest that should arrive soon. I might just swap it out for the one having the issues.
> 
> The other thing that is wacky is that the FiOS signal itself must change a bit. When watching the issue over the past couple of days, the problem box has had no blocking and when doing diagnostics on the same channels that typically block (such as Food 144), at the same db and signal strengths as last night, I was getting 0 uncorrected errors for 2-4 days straight -- just last night the problem cropped up again.


I agree - the FIOS signal does change throughout the day. Before I fixed my pixellation problems (using attenuators), it would be fine from around 10am to 3pm, then it would be bad, on a few channels. But the channel block would change. It would usually be within one or two frequencies, but the frequencies would change week to week.

Weird.

To your point, it's still not the same. You have different connectors, different ports on the splitter, and different physical cables for at least some portion of the run.

Things like the shielding touching a connector can cause havoc, sometimes random.

I'd strongly suggest you just swap Tivo's with each other, and see if the problem follows the Tivo. If it does, it's likely a hardware problem. If not, it's something in the cabling/connectors/splitter.


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## dslunceford

AbMagFab said:


> To your point, it's still not the same. You have different connectors, different ports on the splitter, and different physical cables for at least some portion of the run.


That is a good point. I actually may do a short direct run with another cable (I had to pull a second line for my previous DirecTV setup for dual tuner) that won't go to the wall plate and take it straight to the problem box to see what happens. I think I've eliminated the main line splitter, as I switched placement on the splitter between both THDs with no difference. Switching boxes would be last step, as redoing the AV stacks is a real PITA


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## dslunceford

AbMagFab, you may be a genius. I switched around some of the cabling leading to the problem box, and while I still get uncorrected errors and can't get rid of that using attenuation, it looks like the blocking has been eliminated for the time being....


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## SMB-IL

SCSIRAID said:


> Where are you getting the 20.8/23.9 numbers? What are the units? dbm?
> Are you sure these arent signal to noise ratio numbers? SNR.
> 
> 20dbm from a cablecompany is a HUGE signal level.... and would probably drive the tuner crazy. Like lhorer said... it would be like trying to scream and talk to someone standing next to a concert speaker. Adding attenuation should help. However a 20db SNR is horrible. Adding attenuation in this case would hurt. The Tivo should be showing a signal strength in the 80's or 90's with an SNR in the mid 30's.


The numbers were written on the work order by the tech when he was at the house. He kept telling his dispatch that the signal was really high.

Hopefully an end to my problems: I called Comcast on Thursday morning because the pixelation was so bad on Thursday morning that most channels just showed a black screen. So I called from work and the rep wanted me to be at home to "troubleshoot". When I got home Thursday, the picture was perfect on all channels and the signal strength on the TiVo was back to the 80s and 90s and it's been that way ever since. I don't know what they did, but it worked and I'm hoping it stays working!


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## SCSIRAID

SMB-IL said:


> The numbers were written on the work order by the tech when he was at the house. He kept telling his dispatch that the signal was really high.
> 
> Hopefully an end to my problems: I called Comcast on Thursday morning because the pixelation was so bad on Thursday morning that most channels just showed a black screen. So I called from work and the rep wanted me to be at home to "troubleshoot". When I got home Thursday, the picture was perfect on all channels and the signal strength on the TiVo was back to the 80s and 90s and it's been that way ever since. I don't know what they did, but it worked and I'm hoping it stays working!


Excellent!!!

What is the SNR?


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## richsadams

SMB-IL said:


> The numbers were written on the work order by the tech when he was at the house. He kept telling his dispatch that the signal was really high.
> 
> Hopefully an end to my problems: I called Comcast on Thursday morning because the pixelation was so bad on Thursday morning that most channels just showed a black screen. So I called from work and the rep wanted me to be at home to "troubleshoot". When I got home Thursday, the picture was perfect on all channels and the signal strength on the TiVo was back to the 80s and 90s and it's been that way ever since. I don't know what they did, but it worked and I'm hoping it stays working!


That's excellent news and encouraging for others experiencing similar issues.

We had problems with Comcast earlier this year as well. Three truck rolls and each tech (all different) said everything was "perfect"...often connecting one of there own DVR's and saying "See? The picture's great. Must be your TiVo." We knew it wasn't and on the fourth truck roll the tech left for about 20 minutes to work on the "head end"(?) and when he came back everything was indeed perfect. He said someone had made some "changes there" and that he fixed it. 

Thanks again for posting your story...it's good to know that things can be resolved one way or another. :up:


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## steinercat

SMB-IL said:


> The numbers were written on the work order by the tech when he was at the house. He kept telling his dispatch that the signal was really high.
> 
> Hopefully an end to my problems: I called Comcast on Thursday morning because the pixelation was so bad on Thursday morning that most channels just showed a black screen. So I called from work and the rep wanted me to be at home to "troubleshoot". When I got home Thursday, the picture was perfect on all channels and the signal strength on the TiVo was back to the 80s and 90s and it's been that way ever since. I don't know what they did, but it worked and I'm hoping it stays working!


So the signal strength on the TiVo should be in the 80s-90s?

Mine is aroun 40-50 and I'm getting pixelation on a couple of HD channels and snow on many of the non-HD channels.

Thanks for any conformation.


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## SMB-IL

SCSIRAID said:


> Excellent!!!
> 
> What is the SNR?


The SNR is usually in the 32-35 range and the RS Corrected on most channels remains at 0, while RS Uncorrected sometimes goes up a few points every once in awhile -- which is NOTHING like I had a week ago, where the RS Uncorrected would get into the MILLIONS within a few minutes; just rolling numbers!

When I first got the Series 3, I clearly remember playing around with all the menus and finding the signal strength meter and finding that all channels were at or near 100, so I think the higher the number on the TiVo, the better picture. When the signals were dipping below 55 or 60, that's when the pixelating started like crazy. 60-65 seemed to be the minimum on most channels for a clear picture.

Everything is still stable and even survived last night's snow storm; which frankly, I thought would bring all of the horror back, but this morning, everything was great.

What's also great is that no one from Comcast ever suggested that it was the TiVo causing the problems -- it is their CableCARDS in there, after all, and they do now refer to the "TiVo Series 3" by name on billing and in conversations I've had with customer reps.

YMMV, but IMO, if you've had a consistently good picture and no audio dropouts before, the problem is not with the TiVo, it's with the signal getting to the TiVo, so call the cable company and ******* because at the prices everyone pays for TV, that picture should really be flawless 99.99% of the time!


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## steinercat

just called COX Las Vegas and reported the pixelation issues which are getting worse.

They said to turn off the TiVO and restart.

It has helped somewhat, but there are still many channels with snow or now only pixelizing a little. still unacceptable.

They're sending a tech tomorrow to swap cards.

The nice lady on tech support said this has been a common issue/ticket for them as of late.


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## btwyx

I'm having some pixelation on my S3s, which I don't think is the standard problem, and I'm quite puzzled but it.

It only happens on one channel, SCI-FI (SD cable, digital), that I know of, it may happen on other subchannels on the same QAM carrier, but I don't know which channels those are. That's carried on a very low frequency RF carrier, 105MHz, it would be in the FM radio band usually, but its not the lowest frequency carrier.

When its happening there's a dropout every second or 2, constantly. The audio gets really quite annoying. With the 9.2 software at least the video doesn't break up totally, just show small patches of macroblocking.

This happened on one of my S3s, then later on it was on both of them. Then I swapped around some of the cables on my splitter (and really didn't do anything apart from unhook them, then hook them back up to different ports), and now its only happening on one of the S3s again. When it was happening on both of the S3s, I was thinking it was a source problem, but now as the same source is feeding both and only one is doing it, I'm not sure.

The signal strength is 95 on that channel. It would be 100 if I didn't have the distribution splitter (6 way) in there. As I said every other channel I've looked at is fine, with strengths in the 95-100 range. The SNR is 35-36, even when the problem is happening. When the problem happens the RS uncorrected just counts, fast. When its not happening I get zero for RS corrected and uncorrected.

I'm a bit stumped by this.


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## bradleys

I live in the North Dallas area and I have Verizon Fios cable, internet and telephone. I have been experiencing major pixilation for the last month or so - especially in the lower numbers.

Weve had technicians try to help, installing new cards and a lot of different settings, with no improvement. Recently we have also starting having telephone interference - so we brought the tech back out to take a look.

To fix this problem he installed an RF Suppressor out at the box and low and behold the pixilation went away - completely. This is a better picture then I have ever had, absolutely no pixilation at all. No promise that this will help you, but the quality is so much better we actually call Verizon to let them know about this wonderful side effect.

Good luck to everyone.


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## richsadams

bradleys said:


> I live in the North Dallas area and I have Verizon Fios cable, internet and telephone. I have been experiencing major pixilation for the last month or so - especially in the lower numbers.
> 
> Weve had technicians try to help, installing new cards and a lot of different settings, with no improvement. Recently we have also starting having telephone interference - so we brought the tech back out to take a look.
> 
> To fix this problem he installed an RF Suppressor out at the box and low and behold the pixilation went away - completely. This is a better picture then I have ever had, absolutely no pixilation at all. No promise that this will help you, but the quality is so much better we actually call Verizon to let them know about this wonderful side effect.
> 
> Good luck to everyone.


Congrats on the newly found nirvana! :up:

I know it's a stretch to ask, but is there any way you can post a photo of your new RF Suppressor, or possibly give us the brand, any model number you might find, etc.?

Thanks in advance!


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## madoverlord

I've posted earlier about my pixelation issues, which are now mostly gone. But the remaining problem is just damn bizarre.

I am now seeing consistant pixelation issues on just one channel (ABC affiliate HD) on just two nights a week (Wed,Thursday)!

So Desperate Housewives records fine, no digital glitches at all, on Sunday. But shows like Private Practice, Dirty Sexy Money, and Grey's Anatomy all have digital hits every 3-5 minutes. So since DH is my wife's favorite show, while my TiVo doesn't think I'm gay, it does fear her more than it fears me.

The only real difference between Sunday and Wed/Thurs is that on Sunday, the Tivo is usually just recording shows (when doing DH, it's also recording another HD show), whereas on Wed/Thus it is usually recording 2 HD shows and we are also watching something. I am wondering if this is the issue, with a possible side-order of 720p->1080i upconversion being done in the TiVo as well (we have our TiVo do the format conversion).

Meanwhile, after about 3-4 weeks of continuous operation, RS Uncorrected on both tuners is 0, RS with Correcteds of 24 and 181, and SNRs of 34 or 35.

I occasionally see a hit on other channels but the rates are very low.

One weird idea that just occurred to me when I was previewing the posting was that maybe the hits are being caused when we FF through commercials on the program being recorded.

I'll test that tonight (grin)

Go figure!
R


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## btwyx

madoverlord said:


> Meanwhile, after about 3-4 weeks of continuous operation, RS Uncorrected on both tuners is 0, RS with Correcteds of 24 and 181, and SNRs of 34 or 35.


The error statistics (Corrected and Uncorrected) only apply to the time since the last tune, ie since the TiVo started watching that channel. Its not telling you that you had zero uncorrected in the last 3 weeks, but only since the last time it changed channel on that tuner. There's a note on the diagnostic screen about time since last tune.

If you looked on Wed or Thursday while it was recording, it may show more errors.


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## btwyx

btwyx said:


> This happened on one of my S3s, then later on it was on both of them. Then I swapped around some of the cables on my splitter (and really didn't do anything apart from unhook them, then hook them back up to different ports), and now its only happening on one of the S3s again.


I swapped the port the second S3 was attached to, and replaced the connector with a better one. I'm now trouble free on both S3s.

I don't know if its the swapping ports, or the changing of the plug which did it. I had a lot of trouble with crimp video connectors, they don't seem to like me, so I've been replacing them with compression fittings, which is what the cable company uses. They seem to cause much less hassle.


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## steinercat

wow....the Cox tech came today...looke at the coax cables on the splitter (to TiVo and Internet router) and right away pointed out that it was poor quality and was interefering with the channel signal.

replaced with RG6 cable, and low and behold.....my channel signal strength is now 100.

Haven't noticed any pixelation yet. He warned me though that the pixelation happens regardless of signal strength...though TiVo boxes seem to be more prone to it than the Cox DVR.


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## richsadams

steinercat said:


> wow....the Cox tech came today...looke at the coax cables on the splitter (to TiVo and Internet router) and right away pointed out that it was poor quality and was interefering with the channel signal.
> 
> replaced with RG6 cable, and low and behold.....my channel signal strength is now 100.
> 
> Haven't noticed any pixelation yet. He warned me though that the pixelation happens regardless of signal strength...though TiVo boxes seem to be more prone to it than the Cox DVR.


Great news...thanks for sharing. :up: As someone famous once said..."Pixelation do happen".  A little here and there is to be expected. We see it once in a while OTA direct to our TV...no TiVo in the loop.

I suspect a lot of issues could be cleared up by replacing coax, Ethernet, HDMI and any other assorted cables. I know I have a bad habit of using whatever I have thinking that it's the best quality stuff and then remembering that it _was _the best I could get when I bought it...five years ago or whatever.  Then a lot of us have no control over what the cableco's have installed outside so we're at their mercy to some extent.

I think the last part is a fair statement. Cableco's have dedicated equipment designed to operate within their parameters. TiVo's have to work across a wide variety of cable companies, equipment, quality of service, etc. With so many variables, it has to be a real nightmare to get everything to work properly sometimes.

Thanks again and enjoy!


----------



## jgerry

egorss78 said:


> I just recently started to get pixelation on one channel in particular(NBC HD). Ever other channel seems fine. I rebooted the Tivo and it seems to clear up for an hour or so. I am about to call Comcast, but have a feeling they will say it is the tivo. Any troubleshooting ideas I should try?


I'm having this exact issue as well. Where are you located?

I have one Comcast Multistream cable card. I seem to have excellent signal strength -- showing 100 / 36 SN ratio for NBC.

Every HD recording I've made from NBC in the last week is useless. On hour long programs, I get a partial recording, usually about 54-57 minutes in length. On a half hour recording, I get a partial recording about 26-28 minutes in length. The entire recording is unwatchable. I get about 1-2 seconds of viewable video, then pixelation, then another 1-2 seconds of video... I can't tell much with the audio because I don't get a consistent signal long enough for my receiver to lock on. I get a few words here and there but mostly nothing.

Tonight, I was recording something on both tuners. NBC on one, ABC & MSNBC on the other. The SD program from MSNBC looks fine. NBC & ABC HD programs are unwatchable. I wonder if the problem has something to do with recording on both tuners.

Comcast was, surprise, no help. They say everything is A-OK on their end. They said to call Tivo. One other issue, I've been having pretty severe intermittent issues with my Comcast internet service lately. But it's pretty sporadic, and doesn't seem to coincide time-wise in any way with my Tivo issues. I tried to get a Comcast tech out this morning, but he called me and asked, "Is your internet up right now?" I said yes, and he said he wouldn't come troubleshoot unless it was actually down. I guess I'll be lying about that next time. 

I rebooted to see if this helps, but certainly the recordings themselves are incomplete. Maybe more frequent reboots will help for next time.

Has anyone called Tivo, maybe gotten a replacement unit, and been able to work around these issues?


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## bradleys

Well, three days and still no pixilization. I am not sure if it was the RF Supressor fixed the problem, but I could not be happier. 

Rich, I opened the home owner access panel at the box but did not see anything. I assume the supressor is inside the technitions panel. I will keep an eye on the TV and update this groop if I see any changes.

It would be interesting to see if anyone else in the Plano area could see if this fix wil work for them as well.

Scott


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## richsadams

bradleys said:


> Well, three days and still no pixilization. I am not sure if it was the RF Supressor fixed the problem, but I could not be happier.
> 
> Rich, I opened the home owner access panel at the box but did not see anything. I assume the supressor is inside the technitions panel. I will keep an eye on the TV and update this groop if I see any changes.
> 
> It would be interesting to see if anyone else in the Plano area could see if this fix wil work for them as well.
> 
> Scott


Thanks for that Scott. I thought it was something they installed _inside _your home.

Glad to hear things are going well. Enjoy! :up:


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## bensler

Hello. If you have any suggestions, please help. I had major pixelation issues on the HD channels only with Comcast Cable Company for a while with the Series 3. When the upgrade happened to 9.2, I have very LIMITED pixelation on the HD channels (mainly ABC and NBC), but it was very tolerable. All of a sudden tonight, I noticed tons of pixelation. Does anyone have any suggestions? Does anyone know what is going on? I am located in Houston. Thanks!


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## shamu20

bensler said:


> Hello. If you have any suggestions, please help. I had major pixelation issues on the HD channels only with Comcast Cable Company for a while with the Series 3. When the upgrade happened to 9.2, I have very LIMITED pixelation on the HD channels (mainly ABC and NBC), but it was very tolerable. All of a sudden tonight, I noticed tons of pixelation. Does anyone have any suggestions? Does anyone know what is going on? I am located in Houston. Thanks!


I'm having similar problems. Pixelation was fine after 9.2 until this past Monday. Now I can barely watch an HD program. What's going on?? I'm in North New Jersey.


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## net114

I just moved and I was hopeful that pixelation issues would go away because my signal was really bad in the old place. So...still had issues. Tried everything I could think of...the tech installed an amp, so I isolated the line for my TivoHD and tried it. Still had problems. Then, I had no problems....it just went away. Then, problems returned. Then, they came back. 

I thought of everything...started brainstorming. Hmmm...maybe on the weekends, when more people in my neighborhood are watching tv, it affects my signal! No, that doesn't sound right. So I started trying to figure out, why would it come and go? 

I've isolated it down to two possible solutions:

1. one of the cablecards sucks
2. one of the tuners is not working right

I came to this by tuning in to a known pixelating channel, (HBO) and watched. It pixelated. So I changed that channel to 002, then switched to the other tuner/card and changed to the known HBO pixelating channel. CLEAR. No problems at all, after leaving it there forever. Reversed the process, putting the other tuner/card onto HBO, and it was BACK. Pixelated again. 

Did this over and over, and my conclusion HAS to be that one of the cards is not so good, or a tuner is not so good. My guess is that it is an SCARD problem with one of the cards. When I put the "bad" card onto a basic cable channel, it doesn't seem to have the problem either, so that makes me think it isn't decrypting so well. 

Tomorrow I will take each card out one at a time to isolate which one is "bad" and see if my theory holds. If it does, then hopefully I will be able to get a tech to come out and give me a new card. 

I guess my conclusion is to check and see if a pixelating channel does bad on both of your cards. If one is clear, the other might need to be changed out. Even if yours does bad on both cards, changing them out might help. 

I'll update with more once I experiment by taking out the cards one at a time, and also when i get a tech out here to replace the suspected "bad" card.


----------



## fergie8

net114 said:


> I've isolated it down to two possible solutions:
> 
> 1. one of the cablecards sucks
> 2. one of the tuners is not working right
> 
> I came to this by tuning in to a known pixelating channel, (HBO) and watched. It pixelated. So I changed that channel to 002, then switched to the other tuner/card and changed to the known HBO pixelating channel. CLEAR. No problems at all, after leaving it there forever. Reversed the process, putting the other tuner/card onto HBO, and it was BACK. Pixelated again.
> 
> Did this over and over, and my conclusion HAS to be that one of the cards is not so good, or a tuner is not so good.


Your problem sounds quite like the problem I had, which I reported in the TiVo HD Pixelation with 9.2a thread. The difference being that I had only a single M-card in my TiVo HD whereas you have two S-cards.



> My guess is that it is an SCARD problem with one of the cards.


My guess would be that you have a defective tuner in your TiVo HD.

When I had this problem, my best guess at the time was that if my single M-card was causing the pixelation, then I'd be seeing it on both tuners. I'm not sure that's a logical conclusion, but that was my best guess at the time. Apparently TiVo had a similar best guess too because they offered to replace my TiVo HD without even suggesting a cable card swap first. I haven't had pixelization problems since I got the new TiVo HD.

Unfortunately I couldn't get the lame RCN tech to try to pair up my existing M-card with my new TiVo HD. He insisted on putting in a new M-card instead, which left me unable to test my theory that it was the TiVo HD tuner causing the problem, not the cable card.

So we're both guessing and, unfortunately in many cases, so is TiVo support.

I'd be curious to know if your service number on your TiVo HD starts with 652-0001-803F-....? Just kind of wondering if there are bad tuners out there, are they bad in batches? Another wild guess of mine. 



> When I put the "bad" card onto a basic cable channel, it doesn't seem to have the problem either, so that makes me think it isn't decrypting so well.
> 
> Tomorrow I will take each card out one at a time to isolate which one is "bad" and see if my theory holds. If it does, then hopefully I will be able to get a tech to come out and give me a new card.
> 
> I guess my conclusion is to check and see if a pixelating channel does bad on both of your cards. If one is clear, the other might need to be changed out. Even if yours does bad on both cards, changing them out might help.
> 
> I'll update with more once I experiment by taking out the cards one at a time, and also when i get a tech out here to replace the suspected "bad" card.


Hopefully you will have a different solution for this problem than I had. Shipping tivos back and forth was not so fun for me. I'm happy that I have a working TiVo HD now, but getting to that point wasn't the most positive experience of my life, to say the least.

Good luck.

Cheers,

-- 
Michael


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## btwyx

net114 said:


> Tomorrow I will take each card out one at a time to isolate which one is "bad" and see if my theory holds. If it does, then hopefully I will be able to get a tech to come out and give me a new card.


The diagnostics screen (TiVo Central>Messages & Settings->Account & System Information->Diagnostics) will tell you which tuner and which cable card is being used without taking the cable cards out.


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## brettatk

My THD started to have bad pixelation yesterday and it was driving me crazy. I could not even watch any of my HD channels it was so bad. I went down to the basement and messed around with the wiring and splitters. I then went back to the TV and switched inputs to my HD Receiver (yes I kept it in case I ever wanted to use VOD). I was surprised to see it have the same pixelation issues my THD had. I wonder how many of these problems have nothing at all to do with the THD but only with the cable company. If I had not kept my HD Receiver I would have never known my THD was fine.


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## net114

Hey, thanks for the responses. Fergie8, I think you win the bonus prize. (Wish I had one to give out ha ha). 

Ok, today they sent a tech out and we went through four scards, pairing them patiently one at a time, first in slot 1, then in slot 2. This guy is getting some real TivoHD experience!! Hopefully someone else in my area can use it. Coincidentally, this is the *same guy* that came to my previous residence I mentioned. He originally came by that residence three weeks ago and when he left, literally said, "whew! glad I am done with this one!". Little did he know, *he would get the same customer, same TivoHd,same German Shepherd at a new residence*!! Ha! It was hilarious. At first he didn't recognize me, so I didn't let on.

Then he came into my new office (fourth room) and heard my dog in his crate going "police dog". The expression on his face, to be cliche, was priceless. He just goes, "OH NOOOOOO!"

Anyway, Fergie8 you were right. Every card we had worked fine on "tuner 0", RS Corrected and Uncorrected 0/0. Every card we had on "tuner 1" was both RS's going into the thousands.

So, my conclusion has to be that tuner 1 is messing up. Luckily, I bought the extended warranty from CC for $59.95 on the 29th day after my sale, the last day I could choose that option. I should be able to return this to CC and swap it out. (Now I am in the unfortunate position of having to start all over with updates, pairing cards, everything.)

But - I will know how to test from the moment I get the new one.

As a side note, I have Brighthouse here in Central Florida. The tech support on the phone, (even being kind), is not real good. When I was trying to repair the two cards myself, the techs kept balking and trying to tell me that I needed a tech to come out. When I say balking - I mean that they would go no further, to say they couldn't help me. I couldn't even tell them to just go over this on the phone.

This ended with one tech shutting off my service completely in my entire house (by accident?). My next call was to try and re-explain the whole situation, just to get the other tv's turned back on without waiting for the tech to arrive the next day!

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I will update when I get the new box and let you know if this solves my issues.

PS: The tech confirmed that the "preferred" signal strength is 0db coming in, but often techs will allow up to +10db because its tough to get an entire house at 0db in every outlet. I asked him if he had an RF supressor as some people using FSO said worked for them, but he said they don't carry them. They just split the signal. Messy I guess, but that's what they do. Since my problem seems to be tuner, not "hot" signal, I wasn't concerned, but thought I would mention it for those who think this is their problem. Good luck!!


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## agoldberg

I am getting pixelation on just a few channels. The channels are Disney, Food Network, and Discover. I am sure that it is on more, but these are the ones I watch a lot. It does not seem to happen on the HD channels, though.

It seems to have started about a month after I added an external eSATA drive, but not sure if it is connected. I tried to remove the eSata to test it, but was afraid I will lose all the programs as per the warning screen.

What can I do to check the system? Are there tests I can do? What suggestions do you guys have?

Thanks!


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## brettatk

After some further investigating I did find that the feed through my HD receiver is less pixelated than the THD. I'm going today to buy some RG-6 quad shielded cable to replace what I have in the basement. I think it is a 100' run that is down there now and I can get by with 50', maybe even 25'. I also went ahead and ordered an Electroline 4-port amplified splitter off Ebay last night. I've read some good things about that splitter so hopefully I can boost the signal enough to get rid of the pixelation.


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## SCSIRAID

brettatk said:


> After some further investigating I did find that the feed through my HD receiver is less pixelated than the THD. I'm going today to buy some RG-6 quad shielded cable to replace what I have in the basement. I think it is a 100' run that is down there now and I can get by with 50', maybe even 25'. I also went ahead and ordered an Electroline 4-port amplified splitter off Ebay last night. I've read some good things about that splitter so hopefully I can boost the signal enough to get rid of the pixelation.


Do you know that you have a low signal level condition? Adding an amp to an already good signal level can make things worse. What does the TiVo indicate as signal strength and SNR on the channels that give you issues? Also what are are Corrected/Uncorrected counts?


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## brettatk

SCSIRAID said:


> Do you know that you have a low signal level condition? Adding an amp to an already good signal level can make things worse. What does the TiVo indicate as signal strength and SNR on the channels that give you issues? Also what are are Corrected/Uncorrected counts?


My signal strenth goes from the mid 50's up to the low 70's on pretty much every HD channel I get. I have not paid much attention to the SNR, but I believe it's around 36-37. When I had my CableCards installed last week my signal was 100 and I had no pixelation whatsoever. I do not know what happened between then and now. I'm going to try a few things myself and if it still shows a low signal I'll call the cable company to come out and take a look.

Edit: I just bought me a 50' RG-6 Quad shield cable. I also ran by Radio Shack to get a 1' patch coax cable and decided to pick up one of their adjustable Bi-Directional Amplifiers. Might be trash but figured I'll hook it to the cable coming out of the wall and see what happens. Then when I get my Electroline I'll see which one works better. I think if I can boost my signal just a little I'll get much less pixelation.


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## net114

Just an update: I switched out my TivoHD box today. That was good, no problem just walked in with the old, out with a brand new one. However, Brighthouse will not let me change the cable cards without calling out a tech....again. Even though I explained how easy it was, and I just needed to read them some numbers, the CSR said (after confirming with a supervisor and someone else) that they don't even have that field "editable" on their screen. The number the tech calls to do it is with someone else. 

This sounds like one of those corporate decisions, where no one sees how much time and money could be saved by just letting the customer stick a card into a slot. But, I guess the vast majority of customers are using BH DVR's, not Tivos. 

I will (hopefully) complete my update tomorrow after the tech comes back. (I really hope its the same guy I mentioned before!!)

Edit: I do have to stop and pause, thinking to myself, how many more TivoHD's could be sold if people didn't have to go through all of this?! Its not all on Tivo's shoulders, BH could make things easier, but most consumers just won't go through all this to get their box working.


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## brettatk

Well as I figured the amplifier I bought from Radio Shack is junk. It did nothing to the signal. Even after running new RG-6U cable I still have a pixelation/tiling issue. I gave up and called Charter to have them send out a tech. I think something happened around the area that caused my signal to go way down. Hopefully they can figure it out today. I'll update later this evening after he leaves.


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## richsadams

brettatk said:


> Well as I figured the amplifier I bought from Radio Shack is junk. It did nothing to the signal. Even after running new RG-6U cable I still have a pixelation/tiling issue. I gave up and called Charter to have them send out a tech. I think something happened around the area that caused my signal to go way down. Hopefully they can figure it out today. I'll update later this evening after he leaves.


Hang in there. We had the same issue once and it turned out that the some of the lines they were using were "leaking the signal(?!)" during heavy rains (all of the power lines, cable, etc. are buried in the neighborhood). They had to send a "big truck" out to replace some of it and after that things were fine. Of course at first they said it was all good and no one had complained. Uh-huh.


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## brettatk

richsadams said:


> Hang in there. We had the same issue once and it turned out that the some of the lines they were using were "leaking the signal(?!)" during heavy rains (all of the power lines, cable, etc. are buried in the neighborhood). They had to send a "big truck" out to replace some of it and after that things were fine. Of course at first they said it was all good and no one had complained. Uh-huh.


I believe you are right. Everything has worked fine for the past 6 months, ablsolutely no pixelation. This past Saturday afternoon we had the most rain we've had in about a year. I recorded something that morning that was fine and something that night that had pixelation. I've already removed some splitters from downstairs so they cant try to blame signal loss on that. I'm trying to prepare myself for any other excuse they try to give me.


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## richsadams

brettatk said:


> I believe you are right. Everything has worked fine for the past 6 months, ablsolutely no pixelation. This past Saturday afternoon we had the most rain we've had in about a year. I recorded something that morning that was fine and something that night that had pixelation. I've already removed some splitters from downstairs so they cant try to blame signal loss on that. I'm trying to prepare myself for any other excuse they try to give me.


Yep, weather can really mess things up...ask anyone with a satellite dish.

It's not unusual for weather disturbances (as well as sun spots) to cause signal problems, particularly HD, for the broadcasters as well. The local cableco and network feeds arrive over satellite as well so they are subject to problems. Admittedly they have much bigger/better dishes and processors, but mother nature can be nasty sometimes.

Good luck and let us know what happens! :up:


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## brettatk

Ok, I figured I'd go ahead and post an update. Charter came out yesterday afternoon. From what the tech could tell he said it could either be an amplifier with too much strain or a leakage in the line. The problem is more prominent at night when there are more people using the lines, luckily I had recorded a show on my Tivo that had massive pixelation so I could show him. He is going to open a case with maintenance and see if they can come out and find the problem. Guess I just have to put up with it a little longer.


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## madoverlord

I have a happy holiday update to my situation. My Xmas present this year was to replace my Runco 933 (old-school, superb HD CRT projector) with a JVC DLA-HD1 projector and a bigger screen (and which uses the HDMI output instead of the component outputs of the Series 3).

After a few days, I noticed that the pixelation issues were about the same, not super-horrible, but not acceptable either. But then, when I was recording a program that was getting hits every 5-10 minutes or so, as I was looking through the diagnostic pages, I noticed that one tuner was reporting 35db of signal (Tivo signal strength 95), the other only 29 (strength 60), and the 29db tuner was the one getting lots of corrected and uncorrected errors, and the tuner being used to record the program getting hits; the other tuner was getting 0 errors across the board.

When the program finished recording, I went looking at the connections, and noticed something. Between the cable from the wall and the TiVo I still had a small isolator installed (which I needed with the Runco because otherwise a hum bar would propagate through the TiVo to the Runco), but since the new signal path was all digital, I figured it wasn't needed anymore.

I took it out and the 29db signal immediately jumped to 35, and since then, I only see digital hits a few times a week. Apparently the isolator was acting as a notch filter at some frequencies, so it only affected certain channels (like the higher up HD channels), or it was introducing distortion or something. It might also be a combination of that and a particular cablecard -- I do seem to see more corrected errors on one card than the other (just randomly checking the diagnostic page from time to time).

Best,R

PS: JVC has *really* hit the high-performance projector price/performance sweet-spot with the DLA-HD1. It's small, quiet, very bright, 1080p, has an excellent scaler/deinterlacer, has a huge contrast ratio (without an iris), and easy to set up (all you have to do is get it mounted so that the lens axis is perpendicular to the screen, then there are simple optical (not digital) adjustments (non-distorting!) to shift the image horizontally, vertically, focus, and zoom). To get a perceptually better picture, I think you'd have to pay 2x-3x the price. I love it -- it's even gotten me watching the stupid HD travel programs just because it looks so nice.


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## net114

An update: so far so good after changing out my TivoHD. It appears so far that I have crystal clear picture. It looks like it may have been that one of my tuners was bad afterall.


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## brettatk

I'd like to give a big :up: to Charter. I got home yesterday afternoon and noticed my pixelation was gone completely. My hopes werent real high because nighttime has been the real problem. Well I was happy to see that I did not have any pixelation through the entire night. My wife said she had noticed a Charter truck on the street yesterday morning. So it only took them one day to get out there and correct my problem. I saw atleast one temporary line ran so I'm guessing they found the problem. My signal strength is back to 100 and all is well. If anyone is having signal problems I strongly suggest you get your Cable provider out there to test the line.


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## srcohen

I also have had a happy ending to my pixelation problem. Seems I had a 5-way cable splitter, but was only using 3 lines. Changed to a 3-way and picture improved dramatically, from 60s to 85-90 on the pixelated channels!

I wonder: Is the cable card more sensitive to signal strength?


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## sgcrockett1

I have 2 Series 3 Hddvrs. One has just developed pixilation problems (usually on frequencies around cnn). I switched inputs from 1 cable card to the other. It did not help. I called TIVO customer support and they had me remove the cards and reconfigure to just get basic cable. I did not have pixilation problems (at least for the 30 minutes of the experiment). I then replaced the cards, reconfigured, and immediately had the same problem. Tivo customer support told me it must be the cable cards (Motorola S Cards). I am suspicious because both cards probably would not go out at the same time after working for two months. Any suggestions?


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## ilh

I just picked up a TiVo HD. When I disconnected the QIP6416 that Verizon installed (hate it), I noticed they had put a 3dB attenuator on the coax even after a 2-way and a 3-way splitter. I guess their signal was too strong even for their own Motorola box.

I've got the smarthome.com attenuator pack on the way for when I get my CableCards from Verizon.

Thanks for the tips in this thread.

--Lee


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## ckgoodwin

Hey All,

I am a long time DirecTivo user and just helped my Dad switch from DTV to cable and install a new Tivo HD with Comcast cable card and running the 9.2 software.

The unit is mostly working great but he is having pretty regular pixelation issues - which is frustrating him.

I checked the info screen and it seems like his cable signal is pretty low - low 60s on most channels with some dropping into the high 50s. The S/N ratio seemed to be in the low 30s.

Do those figures sound low for Comcast? This is a new cable install so I am trying to determine if he needs to have Comcast come out to deliver a better signal to the TiVo before we start troubleshooting other issues.

Any other suggestions?

- Chris


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## SCSIRAID

ckgoodwin said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I am a long time DirecTivo user and just helped my Dad switch from DTV to cable and install a new Tivo HD with Comcast cable card and running the 9.2 software.
> 
> The unit is mostly working great but he is having pretty regular pixelation issues - which is frustrating him.
> 
> I checked the info screen and it seems like his cable signal is pretty low - low 60s on most channels with some dropping into the high 50s. The S/N ratio seemed to be in the low 30s.
> 
> Do those figures sound low for Comcast? This is a new cable install so I am trying to determine if he needs to have Comcast come out to deliver a better signal to the TiVo before we start troubleshooting other issues.
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> 
> - Chris


Those numbers are low for cable. I would expect Signal Strength in the 90's to 80's and SNR between 33 and 35db. I assume you are seeing RS Uncorrected values incrementing at a fairly high rate. This would correlate with your pixelation experience.

What is your cabling scheme from where the Comcast feed enters the house until it hits the TiVo? Splitters? How many? Where?


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## ckgoodwin

Thanks for the reply. I will have to check on the cabling scheme. My dad's house is actually about 3000 miles away on the east coast, but I am sure there is at least one splitter, since I know he's feeding at least 4 locations (and one is very long run out to a detached garage).

We had not checked the RS errors yet - I will ask him to do that next. What error rates are acceptable?

- Chris


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## SCSIRAID

ckgoodwin said:


> Thanks for the reply. I will have to check on the cabling scheme. My dad's house is actually about 3000 miles away on the east coast, but I am sure there is at least one splitter, since I know he's feeding at least 4 locations (and one is very long run out to a detached garage).
> 
> We had not checked the RS errors yet - I will ask him to do that next. What error rates are acceptable?
> 
> - Chris


RS Uncorrected should be a very low rate.... they come in bursts though. I would expect none over an hour or so.


----------



## ckgoodwin

Ok, I checked back with my Dad and he's currently seeing zero RS errors - even on channels with signal strength 50 and SNR of 30.

He also clarified that although he has seen some pixelation/macro-blocking, his most recent issue was a blank screen (with sound) when tuning into the Cotton bowl today. Following the blank screen on that channel - he lost video on all channels and finally had to reboot.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks,

- Chris


----------



## SCSIRAID

ckgoodwin said:


> Ok, I checked back with my Dad and he's currently seeing zero RS errors - even on channels with signal strength 50 and SNR of 30.
> 
> He also clarified that although he has seen some pixelation/macro-blocking, his most recent issue was a blank screen (with sound) when tuning into the Cotton bowl today. Following the blank screen on that channel - he lost video on all channels and finally had to reboot.
> 
> Any other thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> - Chris


There are several threads on 'black screen'. I believe Pony even confirmed that a fix is being worked (IIRC).

Signal and SNR is low.... I would get the cableco to check it out. If you split the incoming cable too many times you will perhaps need a distribution amp where the cable comes into the building. Splitters are bad mojo and should be avoided in favor of homerunning to a central distribution point.


----------



## richsadams

ckgoodwin said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I am a long time DirecTivo user and just helped my Dad switch from DTV to cable and install a new Tivo HD with Comcast cable card and running the 9.2 software.
> 
> The unit is mostly working great but he is having pretty regular pixelation issues - which is frustrating him.
> 
> I checked the info screen and it seems like his cable signal is pretty low - low 60s on most channels with some dropping into the high 50s. The S/N ratio seemed to be in the low 30s.
> 
> Do those figures sound low for Comcast? This is a new cable install so I am trying to determine if he needs to have Comcast come out to deliver a better signal to the TiVo before we start troubleshooting other issues.
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> 
> - Chris


You're right on the money...the cable signal is far too low. It should be in the 90+ range. Our Comcast signal runs between 95 and 100 on all channels on our Series3 and TiVo HD.

TiVo is very sensitive to signal strength. If the coax cable is new/good quality (with good connectors) and there are no splitters or attenuators between the cable connection at the wall and your dad's TiVo, Comcast needs to pay a visit. If the coax is questionable try replacing it. If there is anything in between (splitter, amp, etc.) try removing it to see how it affects the signal. If everything looks okay have Comcast roll a truck to check things out and have them bring a couple of new cable cards just in case.

When the Comcast tech arrives you'll need to be sure that they don't cause problems by making the signal too hot either as it can cause macroblocking (pixelation) as well.

IIRC the recommend signal strength should be -10 to +10 dBmV (as measured with their diagnostic equipment) with a SNR of 31-32. The tech should be putting a device on the line at the TiVo connection point to measure the signal.

Let us know how it goes. :up:


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## bcwaller

I just ordered a selection of attenuators and terminators. I may have one or two open ports somewhere, and at 45 cents each I figured I'd buy 5 in case I lose a few. I'll update when they arrive to see if this fixes my intermittent pixelation issue.


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## esb1981

Hello all, thanks for all the great insight in this thread.

Does anyone know why I might have pixelation on just two channels that are coming in at frequencies of 645mhz and 661mhz? I had a hot signal from Cox, and attenuated it down 7.5 db with a 3-way split and 6 db with an attenuator. This noticeably helped, but did not clear up the problem completely. Cox measured it yesterday at +3db at "channel 2" and -6db at "higher" frequencies. The Cox tech told me I should take out my -6db attenuator and replace with a -3db, but that made it worse.

The Tivo Diagnostics shows channels with frequencies up around 800 to have signal strength of about 68&#37; and SNR in the low-30's, and I haven't seen any RS Uncorrected errors. The lower frequency channels in the 500's show signal strength of 87% to 93%, SNR in the mid-30's, and no problems. But 645 and 661 are still giving me occasional pixelation and spiking RS Uncorrected errors, though not as often before I started attenuating.

I'm really baffled. I fear that if I attenuate the signal further then the high-frequency channels will start to have problems since I am already at a pretty low signal strength there. Why would this happen at 645 and 661? Any thoughts are appreciated...


----------



## agoldberg

I am having problems with only certain channels. The HD channels are fine, but some of the digital get pixel hiccups.

Some of the channels that I see problems with are:

*Food Network*, Signal strength-54, SNR-28dB, RS Uncorrected-0, RS Corrected-2422
*Nick*, Signal strength-77, SNR-32dB, RS Uncorrected-0, RS Corrected-0
*Disney*, Signal strength-72, SNR-32dB, RS Uncorrected-0, RS Corrected-34

I have the Cox cabling going to a distribution panel in my bedroom closet. The feed goes into a SV4G Splitter, labeled 5/1000MHz. The splitter has 1-input and 4-outputs. The main feed goes into a port labeled 7dB, not IN. I switched the feed to the IN port and lost my connection on the cable modem. When I put the feed back on the 7dB, the modem connection came back.

Are there any suggestion on what I can do to help with the signal strength? Cox wants to charge me if they don't find anything wrong, so I want to try what I can before calling them. Any suggestions would be appreciated...


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## esb1981

agoldberg said:


> Some of the channels that I see problems with are:
> 
> *Food Network*, Signal strength-54, SNR-28dB, RS Uncorrected-0, RS Corrected-2422


You may have the opposite problem as I do - with the 4-way split and no amplifier your signal might be too weak. SNR of 28db is pretty low. When I have pixelation problems my RS Uncorrected errors spike, so I'm not sure why yours are at 0. I wouldn't put much faith in Cox -- they've been out 3 times to my place and can't fix the problem.


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## esb1981

Anyone have any thoughts on my pixellation issues? It's happening on both tuners/cablecards, happening with an attenuated signal and a boosted signal, Cox can't figure it out, and Tivo says it's Cox's fault.


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## agoldberg

esb1981 said:


> When I have pixelation problems my RS Uncorrected errors spike, so I'm not sure why yours are at 0.


The reason that the uncorrected is 0, is because I had just changed the channel before looking at the diagnostic data.


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## tivoROCKSme

Just posting to share the excitement of the arrival of my new TivoHD yesterday. I have it hooked up OTA but cable guy is coming Friday. 
Thanks to RichAdams for the post with IIRC signal strength and SNR specs. I'll be asking the tech to test to hopefully identify issues before he leaves. 

I was only able to watch an hour or so last night, and did notice a few video frame drop outs on the THD, but I'm not getting too concerned about it yet. 

I'm still reading feverishly trying to decide the future of this THD. My first task is to add my 1TB HD, but to hack or not to hack is the real question. 

So, I see that I can move recorded programs to my pc using TivoDesktop. Does that mean I can move them back to the Tivo later? Is it "moving" the files to the pc or just "copying" the files? Obviously I haven't actually used the software yet. 

Finally, why doesn't Tivo offer TWP or their flavor of it? Or do they and I'm just missing it?
Sorry for the newbie type questions. It's my first SA and I'm like a kid in a candy store.


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## richsadams

tivoROCKSme said:


> Just posting to share the excitement of the arrival of my new TivoHD yesterday. I have it hooked up OTA but cable guy is coming Friday.
> Thanks to RichAdams for the post with IIRC signal strength and SNR specs. I'll be asking the tech to test to hopefully identify issues before he leaves.
> 
> I was only able to watch an hour or so last night, and did notice a few video frame drop outs on the THD, but I'm not getting too concerned about it yet.
> 
> I'm still reading feverishly trying to decide the future of this THD. My first task is to add my 1TB HD, but to hack or not to hack is the real question.
> 
> So, I see that I can move recorded programs to my pc using TivoDesktop. Does that mean I can move them back to the Tivo later? Is it "moving" the files to the pc or just "copying" the files? Obviously I haven't actually used the software yet.
> 
> Finally, why doesn't Tivo offer TWP or their flavor of it? Or do they and I'm just missing it?
> Sorry for the newbie type questions. It's my first SA and I'm like a kid in a candy store.


Congrats on your new TiVo! :up:

If you connected your antenna directly to your TV you'd see a glitch now and then w/HD broadcasts...that's the nature of the beast.

If your comfortable with removing TiVo's hard drive and connecting it to your computer, you shouldn't have any problem upgrading using WinMFS. You can save the original drive as a backup (or in case you need to pop it back in for warranty service).

Yes, TiVo Desktop will allow you to transfer (copy) recordings from TiVo to your PC and back again. With TiVo Desktop Plus you can convert them for other uses as well. You can also edit them and burn them to DVDs using a program like Video ReDo TV Suite (works great by the way :up.

Not sure what TWA is. 

Enjoy!


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## tivoROCKSme

richsadams said:


> If you connected your antenna directly to your TV you'd see a glitch now and then w/HD broadcasts...that's the nature of the beast.
> 
> If your comfortable with removing TiVo's hard drive and connecting it to your computer, you shouldn't have any problem upgrading using WinMFS. You can save the original drive as a backup (or in case you need to pop it back in for warranty service).
> 
> Yes, TiVo Desktop will allow you to transfer (copy) recordings from TiVo to your PC and back again. With TiVo Desktop Plus you can convert them for other uses as well. You can also edit them and burn them to DVDs using a program like Video ReDo TV Suite (works great by the way :up.
> 
> Not sure what TWA is.
> 
> Enjoy!


Thanks Rich,
Sorry, I meant TWP or TivoWebPlus. Is there any stock item like that available. 
Also, thanks much for letting me know about transfer and even burning!! What about movies? Surely they're not going to let me copy and burn a movie are they?

I'm definintely comfortable and plan to use the WinMFS method. I'm debating the whole PROM mod thingy. I enjoy hacking and all, but not sure if it's worth it with all the built in tools, especially if you tell me I can burn my movies!


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## richsadams

tivoROCKSme said:


> Thanks Rich,
> Sorry, I meant TWP or TivoWebPlus. Is there any stock item like that available.
> Also, thanks much for letting me know about transfer and even burning!! What about movies? Surely they're not going to let me copy and burn a movie are they?
> 
> I'm definintely comfortable and plan to use the WinMFS method. I'm debating the whole PROM mod thingy. I enjoy hacking and all, but not sure if it's worth it with all the built in tools, especially if you tell me I can burn my movies!


Being able to transfer and/or burn any recording depends on your local network or cableco which in turn is at the mercy of the property owners (studios, etc.). Some have no restrictions, others allow one copy to be made and others wont allow you to transfer the recording at all. For instance, here's a screen shot showing a movie my wife recorded which is copy protected and cannot be transferred.










(Pity what else we have to watch because the studios won't give the writers their few cents.  At least "Corner Gas" is pretty funny. :up

Long answer longer, yes, there are many programs including movies which you can transfer and burn. The bottom line is that the quality won't be as good as the original due to transcoding by TiVo Desktop, etc. Nothing will equal the original HD or of course a DVD, but for keeping some of your favorites, the quality is really quite good.

Guess I'm not keeping up because I'm not sure what PROM Mod means or what "TiVo Web Plus" might be or do.


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## lrhorer

brettatk said:


> Ok, I figured I'd go ahead and post an update. Charter came out yesterday afternoon. From what the tech could tell he said it could either be an amplifier with too much strain or a leakage in the line. The problem is more prominent at night when there are more people using the lines, luckily I had recorded a show on my Tivo that had massive pixelation so I could show him. He is going to open a case with maintenance and see if they can come out and find the problem. Guess I just have to put up with it a little longer.


What a massive load of horse pookey! CATV amplifiers aren't under any "strain". The number of people watching is totally irrelevant to the quality of the signal. The load on the amplifier output is always dead on 75 ohms.

A "leak" (properly known as ingress) can sometimes cause problems, and it's even within the realm of possibility temperature changes - which of course tend to track the day / night timeline - could cause a mechanical defect in the cable to grow and shrink in effective aperture, but almost all CATV systems put their digital signals up above 450MHz, and there aren't many other high powered broadcast services in that band to muck up the digital streams. If it did, you would see the effect on a very specific set of channels of no more than perhaps 12 SD channels or else perhaps 2 HD channels and 1 SD channel. In the event, occasional pixelization is unlikely. It's much more likely the channels would be totally trashed. You would also almost surely see interference (probably beats or ghosts) on whatever analog channels are the same frequency as your local broadcast channels. The local off-air channels are generally considered "impaired", and most CATV providers do not put the local broadcast channels on the same channel on cable. Thus, my local broadcast channels are 4 (NBC), 5 (CBS), 9 (PBS), 12 (ABC), UHF 29 (FOX). and UHF 35 (FOX). Of these, only channel 29 (561.25MHz) and 35 (597.25MHz) are in the band used for digital programming. My local CATV provider (TWC) puts CW TV on 4, CBS on 5 (the local CBS affiliate, KENS quite foolishly demanded TWC put them on the same channel as their off-air broadcast. TWC made them sign a contract in writing to the effect they would never change their mind and moved them from 6 to 5 as requested. Four hours later, the KENS station manager was calling TWC totally enraged, demanding they put him back. TWC's local GM just laughed and hung up on the station manager. They remain on channel 5, and are still sorry for it, more than 10 years later), Azteca America on 9, and TBS on 12. There's also an impaired region affecting channel 19, which is Telefutura. A crack in the cable will produce beats on these channels, usually either herringbone or venetian blind.


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## lrhorer

esb1981 said:


> You might want to try picking up a high-quality 2-way signal amplifier, though I can't personally recommend any brands or where to get one. You might want to try smarthome.com. Good luck.


No, he doesn't want to do this. Unless he has multiple outlets (more than 4), or has particularly long house drops (read that: a very big house), the CATV provider is responsible for delivering a high quality signal to the back of his tuner, in this case a TiVo. If the signals are low, it's the CATV provider's problem, not his, and adding a house amplifier is never the solution unless the aforementioned caveats apply. Even in that case, many CATV providers will supply an amplifier free of charge. They did for me, because I have 9 outlets, a large house, and it's a good little way from the eve of my house to the subscriber tap on the pole.


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## lrhorer

richsadams said:


> Guess I'm not keeping up because I'm not sure what PROM Mod means or what "TiVo Web Plus" might be or do.


PROM mods are at best marginally on topic on this web site and definitely off-topic on the Series 3 forum. TWP is a truly fabulous 3rd party utility which allows tremendous control of the TiVo, but requires the Tivo to be hacked. Both are better topics for a different website than this.


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## lrhorer

agoldberg said:


> I have the Cox cabling going to a distribution panel in my bedroom closet. The feed goes into a SV4G Splitter, labeled 5/1000MHz. The splitter has 1-input and 4-outputs. The main feed goes into a port labeled 7dB, not IN.


This is incorrect. The input must be on the IN port.



agoldberg said:


> I switched the feed to the IN port and lost my connection on the cable modem. When I put the feed back on the 7dB, the modem connection came back.


On which port is the Cable Modem? At a guess, I would say the levels to your Cable Modem are too high. Ordinarily most CATV systems run their DOCSIS carriers at such a level that a DC9 or DC12 directional coupler is inserted into the line in order to feed the Modem. A DC9 has a tap loss of 9 dB and a through loss of just under 1dB. A DC12 has a tap loss 12 dB and a through loss of just under 1/3 dB. If the Cable Modem and the input cable are both plugged in to OUT ports on the splitter, then this is almost certainly the case. Port - port isolation on most 4-way splitters is usually better than 20dB.



agoldberg said:


> Are there any suggestion on what I can do to help with the signal strength? Cox wants to charge me if they don't find anything wrong, so I want to try what I can before calling them. Any suggestions would be appreciated...


Well, first of all, this is just a splitter, right, not a 4-way amplifier? Assuming so, first the plug the cable input into the IN port of the splitter. Then take a regular old TV set and plug it into each of the four outputs in turn. Check several of the lowest channels and several of the highest channels your set will receive. (Note: channels 7 - 21 are not high channels. They are in the mid-band, between channels 6 and 7 in frequency.) The picture quality should look precisely the same on all four outputs. If not, replace the splitter. Next, plug everything back into the splitter, including the CableModem. If everything else works, but it does not, try swapping ports with another device one at a time until you have tried the Cable Modem on all four ports. It's possible the 5 - 45 MHz region could be bad on one or more likely two of the ports. This would cause the Cable Modem to fail, but wouldn't impact pictures. If it still doesn't work, try obtaining an attenuator of about 5 dB and putting it in-line with the CabeModem. You can rig a makeshift attenuator by taking another 4-way splitter and terminating 3 of the output ports.


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## lrhorer

esb1981 said:


> I'm really baffled. I fear that if I attenuate the signal further then the high-frequency channels will start to have problems since I am already at a pretty low signal strength there. Why would this happen at 645 and 661? Any thoughts are appreciated...


There could be a lot of reasons, but since the problem is very specific to those two streams, it might well indeed be ingress. Check to make sure all of your connections are tight. They should be tightened snugly with a small wrench, not with the fingers. Don't over-tighten, though! Make sure all the cables are tightly crimped. You should be able to supply a very hefty pull to the connector with your fingers without it coming off the end of the cable. Take note of the channel assignments of whatever local VHF Broadcast stations are in your area and look closely at those same channels on your TV without an STB or DVR. Are there beats in the picture? (Note, I don't mean look at ABC, CBS, NBC, etc on your TV. I mean if ABC broadcasts on channel 7 in your area, then look at channel 7 on your TV, irrespective of what station is being broadcast on channel 7 on your CATV system.)


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## lrhorer

srcohen said:


> I wonder: Is the cable card more sensitive to signal strength?


Not directly, no. The RF signal never reaches the CableCard. It is possible, however, that a marginal signal for an unencrypted channel coud cause an encrypted channel to croak. It's pretty unlikely, however.


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## esb1981

lrhorer said:


> Take note of the channel assignments of whatever local VHF Broadcast stations are in your area and look closely at those same channels on your TV without an STB or DVR. Are there beats in the picture?


Thanks so much for your reply. I'm really about at my wits end! Now that you mention this, before we had Digital we had occasionally noticed some PQ issues on analog channel 11 - it turns out the closest broadcast station to us is 8 miles away and broadcasting on channel 11. So when I got home today I tightened all my connections. Analog 11 looks fine on all TV's, but sure enough, the pixelation on the two digital channels continues. I will try pulling at the cables to see if the connectors come off.

We never had problems when we had Cox's DVR - only the Tivo. I replaced splitters, replaced cable cards, have had Cox out 3 times and they've said the signal is "fine," I've removed splits, added attenuators at various levels, and even tried a tilt compensator. The only thing that has shown any improvement is attenuating, but I can't attenuate any further without losing other channels due to low signal strength. I don't know what to do. I feel like I've been spending more time troubleshooting than enjoying the Tivo, and both Cox and Tivo customer service have not been helpful. I'm almost ready to give up...


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## esb1981

I tested my cables and they seem to be crimped well. Any other thoughts? Anyone? Please?


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## SCSIRAID

esb1981 said:


> I tested my cables and they seem to be crimped well. Any other thoughts? Anyone? Please?


Are you seeing the RS Uncorrected count incrementing with the pixelations? If not, the issue may be elsewhere.

EDIT: Looked back and saw that you already said RS Uncorrected was spiking.....


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## esb1981

SCSIRAID said:


> Are you seeing the RS Uncorrected count incrementing with the pixelations? If not, the issue may be elsewhere.
> 
> EDIT: Looked back and saw that you already said RS Uncorrected was spiking.....


Yep. And I should add that it is happening irregularly. Sometimes I'll tune to one the channels and it'll be fine for a while - no Uncorrected and just a couple Corrected errors - and then all the sudden they start incrementing and pixelating. Other times I'll tune to the channel and it'll start happening right away. It did seem to become less frequent when I started attenuating, but my signal is now so low that I am close to losing my 800 MHz channels. Thanks for your help...


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## esb1981

Here's a thought as to ingress causing my picture problems... is it possible that the open RF connection labeled "antenna" on the Tivo HD could lead to some interference? I mean, if I have a 3-way splitter and an open port that isn't terminated, that could cause noise in the line... so is it possible that the antenna connection on the Tivo is picking up interference from my one nearby VHF broadcast station? I'm sorry if this sounds like a silly question... I'm just throwing stuff to see if it sticks, at this point.


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## CrispyCritter

esb1981 said:


> Here's a thought as to ingress causing my picture problems... is it possible that the open RF connection labeled "antenna" on the Tivo HD could lead to some interference? I mean, if I have a 3-way splitter and an open port that isn't terminated, that could cause noise in the line... so is it possible that the antenna connection on the Tivo is picking up interference from my one nearby VHF broadcast station? I'm sorry if this sounds like a silly question... I'm just throwing stuff to see if it sticks, at this point.


I would say it's worth investigating since you have the nearby VHF transmitter. Cable terminators are cheap and might help.

I would find the frequency of the affected channels (use the diagnostic screens on the TiVo), and learn the frequency of the transmitter before spending a lot of time on this possibility though. I think antennaweb.org (if I have it right) will give you the transmitter frequency.


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## esb1981

CrispyCritter said:


> I would say it's worth investigating since you have the nearby VHF transmitter. Cable terminators are cheap and might help.
> 
> I would find the frequency of the affected channels (use the diagnostic screens on the TiVo), and learn the frequency of the transmitter before spending a lot of time on this possibility though. I think antennaweb.org (if I have it right) will give you the transmitter frequency.


Just tried the terminator - no luck. The nearby VHF station is at channel 11, and the problematic channels on the Tivo are at 645 MHz and 661 MHz, which is much higher. So... it's probably not the issue.

I think the only thing left for me to do is exchange the Tivo for a new box since I'm still within my return period. Of course that probably still won't solve it and it'll create a major hassle as I lose all of my recordings and then have to go through the cable card installation again, and from experience I'm sure Cox won't be able to pair them correctly. Could both tuners possibly be bad? I just don't get it. Maybe I should just go back to Cox's DVR.


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## beno

I've been reading the various problems people have been having with Series 3 and HD Tivo's and can confirm that I see the same issues on my Series 3. My question is, how come the Series 3 performed flawlessly until 9.x rolled out. Since then I have experienced every glitch mentioned in the threads. If pixelation is being caused by poor RF you have to ask yourself what you changed in your home wiring to introduce the problem. I find it hard to believe that we all changed our cabling and brought these problems upon ourselve. Anyone else agree? 

BTW - I have been lurking for a long time but haven't posted very many times. I have (1) Series 3 with a 1TB E-SATA drive plus (3) Series 2 TiVos networked together so I have am quite familiar with most things TiVo.


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## esb1981

beno said:


> If pixelation is being caused by poor RF you have to ask yourself what you changed in your home wiring to introduce the problem. I find it hard to believe that we all changed our cabling and brought these problems upon ourselve. Anyone else agree?


That's a great point. I mean, I've been reading these forums and I know the Tivo HD, in particular, has tuners that are "more sensitive" to signal strength issues than other tuners. But if I never had any problems with Cox's DVR, made no changes, and Cox has been out 3 times and said that my signal strength was within specs...


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## CrispyCritter

beno said:


> I've been reading the various problems people have been having with Series 3 and HD Tivo's and can confirm that I see the same issues on my Series 3. My question is, how come the Series 3 performed flawlessly until 9.x rolled out.


You must be kidding! That's such an incredibly wrong statement. There were many people extremely upset at all the problems of the S3 with 8.x software. Bicker (you may know him) was strongly upset at TiVo, mounting a campaign saying the S3 shouldn't have even been released because it had so many problems.

Most (not all!) of the problems people have attributed to software and 9.x were there long before 9.x. The actual number of complaints back then was fewer, but that's because there were many fewer HD TiVos being sold. I would guess the number of HD TiVos has increased by a factor of 10 in the last year. Any time you get that many more units sold, you're going to get that many more complaints.


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## esb1981

Okay, so here is my take on this, please let me know if you all think I am on the right track...

There is something wrong with my cable signal that is causing the Tivo HD tuners to overload at a couple frequencies and causing pixelation. The cable company cannot figure out what the problem is or will not admit to the problem, and therefore they will not fix the problem. The problem does not occur on cable company's Motorola boxes. We know that the Tivo HD tuners are more sensitive to signal strength or signal issues -- be it too strong or too weak a signal -- than other boxes.

So my question is this... should I return the THD to Best Buy and order the Series 3 for $399 off TivoCommunity's store. Could this possibly help?? Is the Series 3 a more "robust" box with stronger tuners that are less susceptable to signal strength imperfections? If I could know for sure the Series 3 would clear up the problem, even for the additional $150 it would cost me, I would go for it in a heartbeat. What do you guys think?


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## Michael1025

I've had a post on this issue (separately), but it's gone unanswered. Maybe I can get some help on this thread.

I've got Comcast (in CT) with a Series 3 Tivo, and get severe pixelation on the Fox and CBS HD channels (233 and 234). It occasionally happens during the week, but it primarily happens on Sunday during football. I'll be watching the pregame show, it will look fine, and as soon as the game starts the channel becomes unwatchable. I never noticed this problem before football season started (around the time of the latest software update as well). It seems odd that this would happen more when football is being broadcast.

My signal strength is between 90-100 (until the pixelation starts, then it varies). The SNR is at 35 or 36 on each tuner. Both channels are on the 615Mhz frequency. The channels directly above and below them come in perfectly; it seems that only this frequency is affected.

I've had Comcast out here 3 times. They checked the line (said it was fine) and swapped out both cable cards. This hasn't fixed the problem.

If I check antennaweb.org, I find that the local fox affiliate broadcasts on Frequency 61. Interference maybe?

"red - uhf	WTIC	61	FOX	HARTFORD	CT 257&#176;	8.9	61"

So...that's all the information that I have. I am at my wits end...does anyone have any recommendations? I'm willing to try anything at this point. Terminating the antenna input on the Tivo? Attenuators? Anything.


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## esb1981

Michael1025 said:


> My signal strength is between 90-100 (until the pixelation starts, then it varies). The SNR is at 35 or 36 on each tuner. Both channels are on the 61.5Mhz frequency. The channels directly above and below them come in perfectly; it seems that only this frequency is affected.


Sounds like your problem is identical to mine, except its happening on different frequencies - my problem channels are at 645 and 661 MHz. You could try attenuating - that helped somewhat for me, but didn't completely clear up the problem. Just be careful not to attenuate so much that you lose your higher frequency channels. I tried terminating the antenna port and it didn't make a difference. I've found that sometimes the channels will be fine the first few minutes I am tuned to them, but then something happens where the tuner overloads or whatever and the problems begin. So if you are watching a 3-hour football game you are more likely to have problems than if watching a half-hour sitcom.

That you were able to notice a correlation with the software update is very interesting. But then again we know that correlation does not necessarily mean causation. I mean, for all I know the attenuation didn't even help, it could've just been coincidence.


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## Michael1025

I don't know if the correlation was with the software update or the start of football season (I'm not likely to be watching 3-6 hours of live HD on a Sunday otherwise).

The Tivo is still under warranty - is it worth it to swap it out for a new one? Could this be caused by bad tuners? Has anyone had any luck doing this?


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## esb1981

Michael1025 said:


> The Tivo is still under warranty - is it worth it to swap it out for a new one? Could this be caused by bad tuners? Has anyone had any luck doing this?


Can't hurt to call Tivo and see what they say - maybe they'll send you a new box. When I called them about this awhile ago they were steadfast that the problem was related to signal strength. But you, like me, had the cable company out 3 times and they've found no problem. So how can it be signal strength? Good luck, and definitely keep us posted on what happens. My box is still within Best Buy's return window until 1/31, so I'm still considering swapping mine out there.


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## Michael1025

All - update. I called Tivo this evening and they are shipping out a new box. You have to put an $800 deposit on it (which is refunded once they get your box back), and pay a $50 return fee. I'll let you know if anything changes - in the meanwhile, if anyone has any suggestions, I'm happy to try them. The new box won't arrive for about a week.


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## DigitalJEM

esb1981 said:


> Okay, so here is my take on this, please let me know if you all think I am on the right track...
> 
> There is something wrong with my cable signal that is causing the Tivo HD tuners to overload at a couple frequencies and causing pixelation. The cable company cannot figure out what the problem is or will not admit to the problem, and therefore they will not fix the problem. The problem does not occur on cable company's Motorola boxes. We know that the Tivo HD tuners are more sensitive to signal strength or signal issues -- be it too strong or too weak a signal -- than other boxes.
> 
> So my question is this... should I return the THD to Best Buy and order the Series 3 for $399 off TivoCommunity's store. Could this possibly help?? Is the Series 3 a more "robust" box with stronger tuners that are less susceptable to signal strength imperfections? If I could know for sure the Series 3 would clear up the problem, even for the additional $150 it would cost me, I would go for it in a heartbeat. What do you guys think?


The cable companies will not (and should not) admit to a problem that is not their own...

I have 2 Series3's a 1 THD in my house. And to be specific, I have had 3 different THD's in the place of the 1 that's here -- can you say swaps  ..

The 2 Series3's are in the same room, and the THD is in another room.

I have swapped box locations, cards between boxes, cables, splitters, amplifiers, etc etc etc. My neighbor is a Cox field installer/tech who did my install and who has helped with every step of trouble shooting I have done. In a sense of perfection, at this point, signal levels at all of my outlets is perfect according to Cox's standards. 0 to +5 db on the input and attenuated to 40-44 db on the return path (which doesn't matter now, since the Tivo's aren't 2way yet)... but the reason it's balanced perfectly is before I had Tivo's I have Cox's DVR's which are 2 way. So as I was saying, the install and everything is perfect.

I never ever had pixelation on my Cox DVR's (except for when the DVR's HD itself started to go bad, *smile*... box swap fixed it).

I bought 1 Series3, put 2 single stream cards in it and didn't have any issues with it for almost a year. Purchased a 2nd Series3, put 2 cable cards in it, didn't have any issues with it for 4-5 months. Purchased the TivoHD, Put 1 M-card in it and started having issues almost instantly with it. I can't say alot, but I can say that Tivo had it fixed at one point in time, then broke it again and it hasn't been well since. (All this time the 4 s-cards in the 2 S3's remain 100% stable). I had cox come out and try another M-card in THD, nada, still tiling. Had them come out and put 2 S-cards in.. nada still tiling.

Then I got to thinking.... like I said, the 2 S3's are in the same room. I took one "offline" and put the THD where it was. Still had problems. Took the knowingly working S-Cards out of the 1st S3 (year long), had cox unpair from S3 and Repair to THD.. Immediately saw problems. Put the THD's cards in the S3, Paired them, No Problem on S3 (using THD's cards)... Swapped cards back, just because... problems still only on the THD..

I've left alot of the troubleshooting out just because I've redundantly repeated it over and over to Tivo's tech support (and it's getting old).. but the conclusion i've come to is... it doesn't matter where I have the box or what cards I have in it.. I know via trial and error that the cable cards are working fine, and the cables, amps, splitters and Series3's are Fine.. it's the dang TivoHD box that has the pixelating issue (which as I said earlier Tivo had fixed at one point in time).

Since the beginning of this problem to now, my neighbor (the cox guy) has started seeing more and more THD's out in the field that also have the same issue. He verifies signal is good at demarc, in and out of splitters/amps, and at the outlet and then promptly tells the customer to call Tivo and report the problem because there is nothing he can do to fix it (since he can't, and it's quite obvious)... that is, shy of convincing them to return the POS THD to the store and either get a S3 or rent a DVR from Cox


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## esb1981

DigitalJem, thanks so much for your post. It does help verify what I had feared - the problem must be the box. I mean, like you, I've done inifinite amounts of troubleshooting and nothing has cleared it up, Cox has been out 3 times and said the signal is perfect, etc etc. My question to you is did you have the problems on all channels or only specific ones? That's the one thing that doesn't make sense to me - why would it happen specific to just a couple channels.

Also, you mention Tivo had fixed the problem at one point... how did they do that? I think my best bet is probably to swap out the THD box for another while it is still within my return period. TivoCommunity doesn't have any Series 3's in stock, and all other retailers have them priced out of my range. Thanks again for your help.


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## Michael1025

I should clarify that the issue that I'm having is with the S3...


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## net114

I wanted to post an update to my issue. Just to recap, the TivoHD I originally had obviously had one bad tuner. This explained why some shows were fine and others were crap. After a lot of testing, I discovered that one tuner was always the one with pixelation. If you are having problems, make sure you isolate if it is happening to you on just one tuner or on both. I thought my problem was with my scards, but after switching them out (over a long and trying period with techs), I switched out my TivoHD. 

Now, I have no problems at all. All pixelation is gone. Occasionally I will still get a scard "hiccup" where one of my cards thinks it is not activated, but my pixelation issues have been gone since changing out my box.


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## cowboyshootist

Here's what worked for me. I installed the HD Tivo this afternoon 1-15-08. The Cable installer was clueless but I managed to get an M-card installed. First thing I found out was the installer did not provide the proper information back to Comcast and I was missing some of the premium channels. 

Once I got that all worked out I still had pixelation on HD and non-HD channels. It was beyond terrible. I forced a network connection and the unit downloaded some sort of update and installed it. That also did not fix the pixelation problem. I tried to force a second network connection and Tivo told me that it could not connect due to a service update that was due to take place at 2am. I restarted Tivo and it began the download. Once that service update, whatever it was, was installed the pixelation problems went away.

So in summary, there appears to be a major service update that can have some effect on new HD Tivo systems. You may have to restart or wait for the update to automatically happen in the middle of the night.


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## Roderigo

DigitalJEM said:


> The cable companies will not (and should not) admit to a problem that is not their own...
> 
> My neighbor is a Cox field installer/tech who did my install and who has helped with every step of trouble shooting I have done. In a sense of perfection, at this point, signal levels at all of my outlets is perfect according to Cox's standards. 0 to +5 db on the input and attenuated to 40-44 db on the return path (which doesn't matter now, since the Tivo's aren't 2way yet)... but the reason it's balanced perfectly is before I had Tivo's I have Cox's DVR's which are 2 way. So as I was saying, the install and everything is perfect.


Unfortunately, your post doesn't really prove the problem isn't "a problem that is not their own."

Every tuner has it's tolerances. The CableCARD spec/testing procedure makes sure all boxes meet the specified ranges. But, your cable box or the S3 may be handle poor signals better than the spec requires. So, while testing with other devices is useful (especially if all devices exhibit the problem), it unfortunately, doesn't prove the signal is within the spec's tolerances.

I just did a google search on "qam troubleshooting", and came up w/ this document from Cisco.

http://www.ciscosystems.com/en/US/s...s522/ns3/net_presentation0900aecd804bac8c.pdf

You only mention the cable company checking the power level. Looks like there are a lot more analysis of the signal that the cable company could be doing that you don't mention them having done.


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## OvrrDrive

I've been on the forum long enough to know that "pixelation" is a coined term on this forum, but you guys do know the correct term for this behavior is "tiling" right?

I've dealt with it on and off over the 3 or so years I've had my tivo and for the last few months it has been pretty terrible. It seems to come and go with various updates they push out, but the last update I got brought it back and it has stayed. 

From what I've seen, the issue is purely a tivo issue and while some of the cable techs you guys have been getting could have been a little more educated, it isn't their fault or problem even if they manage to lessen or even eliminate the issue. 

My current tivo is a Series 2 540 40 gig model that I piggybacked a 200 gig drive to that has worked relatively well for me over the years. This week the freezing and tiling got unbearable right before I went into a gsod. Since the first complete check I let it do the tivo refused to boot past the "just a few more minutes" stage and ended up a complete brick. Looking around on the forums I see there are quite a few more people that ended up in the same situation as I did, so I'm leaning towards there must have been some kind of minor update possibly to help with the issue but as I can't view anything anymore I will never know for sure. 

Not being ready just yet to drop the cash for a S3 or THD model, I figured I'd try an instantcake restore on the 200gig drive to see if I could salvage the tivo for $20 instead of a major investment. I'm happy to say that everything booted up just fine and the tivo is actually responding better than it has in years. And I didn't notice any tiling (ok pixelation...  ) this morning but until I spend some time watching it I'm not prepared to concede victory just yet... 

It is encouraging though... I'm just p'od I lost 200 gigs of programming.


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## esb1981

Roderigo said:


> You only mention the cable company checking the power level. Looks like there are a lot more analysis of the signal that the cable company could be doing that you don't mention them having done.


Roderigo, thanks very much for your post. This Cisco document is excellent information and those of us with problems can use this to help point the cable company techs in the right direction with troubleshooting this. It certainly helps me see that the problem could, in fact, be with the signal since my issues are specific to just a couple channels. I just don't think the Cable Company will be able to fix this - they haven't yet. What continues to frustrate is the simple fact that other tuners and boxes are able to handle this. At the end of the day, I Have a Tivo HD box that is showing tiling on 2 channels that I am paying for, and we can't fix the problem.


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## jordanfrank

I share a problem with ESB1981. And am glad to see I am not the ONLY one - since thats how Support makes me feel. I am in Providence RI and am on Cox Cable. Bought my Tivo December 2007. Hooked it up to HD Cable Cards and TV in June/July and noticed rampant pixellation in July or August. Since then I've spent WAY too many hours on Tech Support and doing pointless tests. 

The primary network channels are the worst offendors, but many of the HD channels, if you watch them long enough, will pixellate. 

The Cox guys have been out multiple times to test the signal, run a line directly to my box from the pole and so on. I've swapped cable cards and swapped the TiVO box. TiVO HD JUST DOES NOT WORK with the Cox HD channels. There must be a problem in the TiVO hardware or firmware. 


I have zero confidence that the folks at TiVO will solve the problem so am not sure what to do from here.


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## CrispyCritter

jordanfrank said:


> The Cox guys have been out multiple times to test the signal, run a line directly to my box from the pole and so on. I've swapped cable cards and swapped the TiVO box. TiVO HD JUST DOES NOT WORK with the Cox HD channels. There must be a problem in the TiVO hardware or firmware.
> I have zero confidence that the folks at TiVO will solve the problem so am not sure what to do from here.


I understand your frustration, but thousands of people with TiVo HD and Cox do not have your problems; what is it that makes your situation different from their's?

There's at least half a dozen people in Rhode Island here who have Cox, and presumably do not have your problems (Search the forum for "Rhode"). Have you checked with them?

Have you tried attenuation? Cable techs often don't check well for too strong of a signal, but that poses much more of a problem for a TiVo than a typical cable company DVR.

Do you have a friend in the same cable franchise but a different neighborhood that you can test your TiVo at? At this point it seems unlikely there's anything that TiVo (the company) can do, but there are still things you can do to test the signal. If it works at your friend's, then you have ammunition for arguing with the cable company. If it doesn't work at your friend's, then the solution will be harder.


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## jaquade

Thought I would chime in on the tiling issue as well and would appreciate any help or direction. I have a Tivo HD unit with an MStream card installed. The tiling occurrs on both tuners. It also occurs only on a select same chanels on either tuner. The channels are typically the ones that are not your typical network affiliate channels (ABC, NBC). I have tiling on ESPN, Discovery, etc. The signal strength on the channels of questions are approximately 44 on the tivo channel strength meter. What would be my best next steps:

Call Tivo - See if they can resolve, get a box exchange?

Call Cox - Send the same guys out that couldn't pair my mstream card and have them fumble around with no solutions


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## richsadams

jaquade said:


> Thought I would chime in on the tiling issue as well and would appreciate any help or direction. I have a Tivo HD unit with an MStream card installed. The tiling occurrs on both tuners. It also occurs only on a select same chanels on either tuner. The channels are typically the ones that are not your typical network affiliate channels (ABC, NBC). I have tiling on ESPN, Discovery, etc. The signal strength on the channels of questions are approximately 44 on the tivo channel strength meter. What would be my best next steps:
> 
> Call Tivo - See if they can resolve, get a box exchange?
> 
> Call Cox - Send the same guys out that couldn't pair my mstream card and have them fumble around with no solutions


Not sure what the exact cure will end up being, but signal strength around 44 is far too low. I'd get Cox involved first to resolve the low signal strength issue. You can call TiVo but that's pretty much what they'd probably tell you as well.


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## Rose4uKY

I just bought a new 40 Inch HD TV and another THD. My TV Has PIP on analog channels only and I asked Tivo if I could use a splitter and the guy said well test your signal strength but I was on like an HD channel I think and it was in the high 90's so he told me I could split it up. I found an old extra coaxial and was using the splitter. I don't really use the PIP but wanted to try it. Well this past week I keep seeing pixelation problems on some of my recordings and I read several posts here. I called Tivo just now and she told me to 1st by pass the splitter and hook the cable from the wall directly back into the Tivo box. My bedroom THD is hooked up directly to the Tivo Box and is fine never had any issues. She then said if that doesn't help take out my cable cards and it could be one of my cable cards. She said I doubt if it's a Tivo issue but I just read above where someone had a bad tuner. I dread the thought of returningmy Tivo or even having my cable company come out with new cards cause it's such an ordeal. But I don't know if my problem is on one tuner or both. But hopefully hooking my cable back into the Tivo will solve my problem will see.


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## jaquade

Thanks to this board I was able to resolve my tiling issue with the help of Cox. As I stated a couple posts back I was getting tiling on certain channels with a Tivo HD Signal Strength in the 48 range. Cox Tech came out and measured the signal and change my splitter to a "balanced" splitter and now have signal
strength around 88. No tiling.... so I would look to signal strength and the type of rating of the splitter being used. Thanks for the help.


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## tjohnson

Hi All,

I've been having this problem for some time with one of my two Series 2 Tivos. I know I'm posting on Series 3 topic but can't find a better place to post so I'll try it here.

Similar to the problems many describe, I'm having pixelation issues with audio dropout. I've upgraded hard drive...no difference. Connect direct from cable box bypassing Tivo...no problems, so it's not signal strength (I also installed a signal booster just to be sure). 

I just can't find information on what could be affecting my Series 2. Any ideas?

Thanks


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## jordanfrank

CrispyCritter said:


> I understand your frustration, but thousands of people with TiVo HD and Cox do not have your problems; what is it that makes your situation different from their's?
> 
> There's at least half a dozen people in Rhode Island here who have Cox, and presumably do not have your problems (Search the forum for "Rhode"). Have you checked with them?


With respect to COX, I am sure some cox + tivo HD customers are fine. But I am seeing three who recently commented on this thread who are having problems.

I'd love to find someone in my area that has TiVO HD and Cox cable. I can't find any friends who have the combination. I am in Providence which I think is in the Warwick Cox area network. If anyone out there in Providence Rhode Island is doing just fine with TiVO HD and Cox cable -- please let me know.



> Have you tried attenuation? Cable techs often don't check well for too strong of a signal, but that poses much more of a problem for a TiVo than a typical cable company DVR.


I am skeptical of the attenuation approach for three reasons:

1. The cable guys did test to ensure the signal was in the right range. They cant leave the house unless its in the right range.

2. The TiVO support guy couldnt tell me what attenuator to purchase.

3. User ESB1981 tried an attenuator for this problem and only got limited relief: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5871386#post5871386


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## Michael1025

Update:

I had Comcast out today and we swapped out my Series 3 Tivo for a replacement unit from Tivo. I've had crystal clear HD on my two problem channels all day, which is great.

I notice that the replacement unit is running the 8.0 software (my old one was running 9.2). So...I wonder if I had a bad tuner, or if this is software related. I would imagine that I'm going to get pushed the new update sooner or later...so I guess we'll find out.


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## Rose4uKY

I am not a 100&#37; sure yet but mine had to do with signal also I think. And I was using a splitter that my cable company gave me and an old coaxial I found laying around to split mine up to use my PIP. But I would check strength from the Tivo and it was like 72 and I had a 40 something. In the beginning it was high 90's but may have been on an HD channel but Tivo is the one who said if you signal is that high you can use the splitter. But IO was previuosly told not to use it that the cable had to go into the back of the THD. That is why I was wondering Is the signal different on all channels or different on lets say Analog verses Digital or HD? Cause one channel said 72 one said 40 I think. 

I took away my splitter and put the good coaxial cable right into the Tivo. Last time my cable company came out to do my bedroom they had did something to my coaxials and put some tip on them for signal he said mine were old and there is some blue tip on them now. But I did this on Saturday but so far I haven't seen any pixelation but It's too soon to tell really. I'll wait it out till the end of the week. But I haven't checked my signal strength since removing the splitter.


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## esb1981

Rose4uKY said:


> That is why I was wondering Is the signal different on all channels or different on lets say Analog verses Digital or HD? Cause one channel said 72 one said 40 I think.


Signal strength can vary by the frequency the channel is on. In general, lower frequencies tend to be stronger and higher ones weaker. For digital channels, the number of the channel does not correspond to the frequency of the channel. For instance, I have channel 712 coming in at frequency 663 MHz, and channel 748 coming in at frequency 465 MHz. The channel I have coming it at 861 MHz is the weakest signal strength, at around 51. Analog channels are generall on the lowest frequencies (usually below 500 MHz).


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## Rose4uKY

Oh really so when you check your signal through the Tivo you also see the MHz number also plus the strenth like 70 or 90? Sorry that confuses me. I just know my friend told me to record my daily soaps on the HD channel #908 instead analog #4 ABC even though there not in HD it's still a better picture so I do that but I didn't really understand the frequency stuff. One time I was in the test signal and punched in channel #127 and it showed me a different channel. But I understand a little better now from your post. Thanks, I just hope my pixelation problem is gone.


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## esb1981

If you go to the diagnostics screen (tivo central, messages/settings, account/system info, diagnostics), for digital channels it will tell you the following:

- Signal strength on a level of 1-100 (should be above 60)
- Frequency that the channel is broadcast on
- SNR (signal to noise ratio - should be between 31-36)
- RS Corrected errors (should be low, but these errors do NOT affect your picture)
- RS Uncorrected errors (every error represents a picture/sound problem) since you tuned to the channel.

I'm not sure about analog channels since I don't get any, but it probably won't show much, if any of those diagnostics.


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## Rose4uKY

Ok thanks a lot I'll do that. I don't watch any analog channels even though I get 2-99 plus all my digital but thanks. Everything on my analog is on digital so I watch digital always. Thanks Again, Rose


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## CheezWiz

OK,
I am having a hell of a time with Fox in Middle TN. on Charter.
My stats are:
Tuner 1 is on the channel in question:
Signal: 100
SNR: 36 dB
RS Uncorrected: 0
RS Corrected: 0

That is in 700 seconds.
I am getting pixelation with sound drops every at least once per minute and the two RS numbers are not changing to match this. I have seen two since I first typed in these numbers and they have not change. So I do not believe that they can be pegged directly to on screen events. Unless the glitches are on the source feed to my local provider?

In any case I am PO'd because my recording of Terminator SCC's is completely worthless. There are no sound drops on the analog SD channel at all.

Edit: I am getting the same signal drops and pixelation on my Cable Card equipped TV. I so rarely use it (built-in tuner) that I forget that I have it as a troubleshooting aid. I think I am seeing the channel as it is being broadcast from the local franchise.


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## jordanfrank

Update on my issue with pixellation on Cox Cable in RI with the Series3 HD unit. Since the TiVO tech's last breath was to try an attenuator and it helped (but didnt fix) ESB1981's problem, I thought I'd give it a shot. No sale. I tried with 6, 12 and 18 db attenuators. But it did not fix the problem on the problem channels (which are generally 717Mhz channels). And it reduced the reported signal received on the other otherwise stellar HD Channels. 

I noticed in the process when I was turned recording on CNN HD that the screen pixellated on and off when the TiVO was starting the recording process. Since this particular pixellation issue is happening independent of the otherwise constant / good signal - I expect that there are I/O issues on the TiVO that make it vulnerable to pixellation which its spinning up disks / moving data around.


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## brown_squirrel

I just got my Series 3 HD up and running and I was fortunate enough to get a single multistream (M) card installed and I haven't noticed any real pixelation issues. I have noticed some "tracking" issues...pixel bands where there is a lot of motion..but I suspect that is the cable transmission at the time and my TV (1080p LCD, not Plasma). So I gotta guess the 2 Single Stream card setup is the big culprit.

I just read this on Tivo's support page:
_The TiVo Series3 HD DVR will require two (2) M-CARDs or S-CARDs. All major cable companies are mandated be federal law to provide CableCARDs to their digital cable subscribers. Some cable companies offer CableCARDs for free and others may charge a small monthly fee._

I know for a fact I just have 1 multi-stream card. Is that bad?


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## richsadams

brown_squirrel said:


> I just read this on Tivo's support page:
> _The TiVo Series3 HD DVR will require two (2) M-CARDs or S-CARDs. All major cable companies are mandated be federal law to provide CableCARDs to their digital cable subscribers. Some cable companies offer CableCARDs for free and others may charge a small monthly fee._
> 
> I know for a fact I just have 1 multi-stream card. Is that bad?


Welcome to the forum! :up:

The statement is referring to the "original" TiVo Series3. The one I think you're referring to is commonly known as the TiVo HD.

The TiVo Series3 currently requires two "S" or two "M" cards for dual tuner functionality. The TiVo HD can utilize one "M" card or two "S" cards.


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## esb1981

I had Cox out again today because I have 2 channels that stopped coming in. They couldn't fix that problem, of course. I also told the tech about my pixelation/tiling issues, and he replaced the coax running through the basement. Did not solve the problem. I told him I think there must be interference on the line and asked him to check that with a QAM Analyzer - he gave me a blank stare, and explained that the only way to check interference is with some kind of a "spectrum analyzer," which he did not have. All he could do was check signal strength. What a joke. I am ready to give up. I have until Thursday to return the Tivo box, maybe I"ll just bite the bullet and do that and go back to Cox's crappy DVR so at least I can watch ESPN2 again.


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## westtown73

I have a Tivo HD and have signal problems from Comcast in Montgomery County Maryland. The strange thing is that it only drops down during the middle part of the day, both on weekends and weekdays. When that happens I lose 2 channels completely and get tiling on a few others. Anyone have any idea what could cause that? Heating of the box on the street by the sun? Anyway, I've scheduled Comcast to come out between 11AM and 2PM so I'm crossing my fingers the problem is present when they show up.


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## quick

I have tried everything except break open my TivoHD to try to get rid of this pixelation problem on the HD channels.

If i check the signal strength, its fine, i have swapped cables and splitters every which possible, its 100&#37; not a signal strength issue (too high or too low signal)

I have a single M-Card from Comcast in Houston, which has been working fine for at least 3-4 months, all of a sudden CNNHD won't stop giving me pixelation, it's also intermittent, some days its fine, some days its horrible and its not always this channel, other HD channels will do it too, some times the signal strength will bounce from 80s to 60s when its doing it but the levels are actually tested good, and it will do it even when the strength is 94-100!

Even right now it is pixelating like crazy, and i just checked the signal meter and its 97 and it won't do any pixelation when im running the signal meter, WTF?!

It's either the cable card, or the TivoHD unit, anyone have some suggestions?

Is it possible to power off the Tivo and take out the M-card and reseat it and then power it back on or will that cause problems?


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## esb1981

quick - when it pixelates and you go to the diagnostics are the Uncorrected errors increasing when the signal level fluctuates? That's what happens on mine. Signal will be strong, all the sudden I get pixelation and the signal level fluctuates while the uncorrected errors spike. If uncorrected errors are not spiking then the problem is in the broadcast.

It sounds like these problems are getting very common and no one has a solution.


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## quick

esb1981 said:


> quick - when it pixelates and you go to the diagnostics are the Uncorrected errors increasing when the signal level fluctuates? That's what happens on mine. Signal will be strong, all the sudden I get pixelation and the signal level fluctuates while the uncorrected errors spike. If uncorrected errors are not spiking then the problem is in the broadcast.
> 
> It sounds like these problems are getting very common and no one has a solution.


Checked the diagnostics and yes shows uncorrected going up as the signal fluctuates from 60's to 100...

Is it worth swapping my TivoHD (won't cost me) and getting a new cable card or is that just asking for more headaches, ie. cable card setup annoyances etc...

What does Tivo tech support say about this issue? Let me guess, its the cable card, go get a new one?

*EDIT:* Called Tivo tech support, they said change the card and call back see if it fixed the problem...


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## esb1981

I've tried everything (with the help of 5 Cox visits). I've had 6 different cable cards in there, boosted the signal, attenuated the signal, checked connections, replaced coax, terminated the antenna input, and tried a signal equalizer. Today I am finally going to swap out my box. I would recommend trying that if nothing else has worked. It's my last resort.


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## richsadams

esb1981 said:


> I've tried everything (with the help of 5 Cox visits). I've had 6 different cable cards in there, boosted the signal, attenuated the signal, checked connections, replaced coax, terminated the antenna input, and tried a signal equalizer. Today I am finally going to swap out my box. I would recommend trying that if nothing else has worked. It's my last resort.


 Yikes! I think you (and a few others here) get this month's TiVo Most Patience Award! If you've done all of that I agree...time to replace the box. Honestly I think I would have done that sooner...but then...I have no patience.


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## quick

esb1981 said:


> I've tried everything (with the help of 5 Cox visits). I've had 6 different cable cards in there, boosted the signal, attenuated the signal, checked connections, replaced coax, terminated the antenna input, and tried a signal equalizer. Today I am finally going to swap out my box. I would recommend trying that if nothing else has worked. It's my last resort.


I will try that after replacing the M-card, if that doesn't work...

Last night I was watching tv and something was recording, and all of a sudden I got a message screen that said "there is a problem with your cable card displaying your cable channels" All the channels were black/no signal

I had to restart the box to get the channels working again. I'm hoping this cable is the problem because replacing the tivo is very time consuming.


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## slyone

so what's been going on here...has anyone tried their box replacements yet? wondering the outcome?


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## slyone

esb1981 said:


> If you go to the diagnostics screen (tivo central, messages/settings, account/system info, diagnostics), for digital channels it will tell you the following:
> 
> - Signal strength on a level of 1-100 (should be above 60)
> - Frequency that the channel is broadcast on
> - SNR (signal to noise ratio - should be between 31-36)
> - RS Corrected errors (should be low, but these errors do NOT affect your picture)
> - RS Uncorrected errors (every error represents a picture/sound problem) since you tuned to the channel.


 Mine says signal strength- 42
lock- yes
SNR-28dB
RS Uncorrected- 112
RS corrected- 934000-1050000 keeps climbing? what's all this mean anyways??


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## quick

slyone said:


> so what's been going on here...has anyone tried their box replacements yet? wondering the outcome?


I replaced my M-Card yesterday, and the problem since I installed it yesterday is gone.

So, so far for me replacing the M-Card on my TivoHD fixed the pixelation problem I was having on the HD channels.


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## quick

slyone said:


> Mine says signal strength- 42
> lock- yes
> SNR-28dB
> RS Uncorrected- 112
> RS corrected- 934000-1050000 keeps climbing? what's all this mean anyways??


Signal strength 42??

That's way too low anything below 85 I think is too low IMO... are all the channels at or around 42?


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## slyone

That 42 was a HD channel...I'll have to check other ones today but it just seemed like any sports on HD is terrible! I figured may be it's the camera mans' fault or cause HD is much more sensitive causing the shake..what do you call a jagged movement..not at all smooth????

p.s. I think I probably got to many splitters! I found 1 source that "splits" then it feeds 2 places 1 of which goes to a amplifier which then feeds a 4 way splitter..1 of which goes to my HD unit.


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## quick

slyone said:


> That 42 was a HD channel...I'll have to check other ones today but it just seemed like any sports on HD is terrible! I figured may be it's the camera mans' fault or cause HD is much more sensitive causing the shake..what do you call a jagged movement..not at all smooth????
> 
> p.s. I think I probably got to many splitters! I found 1 source that "splits" then it feeds 2 places 1 of which goes to a amplifier which then feeds a 4 way splitter..1 of which goes to my HD unit.


I would assume all your picture quality issues are down to the low signal strength...

Make sure all the runs from your main line are RG6 cable and not RG59, remove splitters where not absolutely necessary (ie a room is not in use with a tv, remove the split for this location) might require you to go into your attic or what ever... I would definitely make sure you get your signal strength up to high 80's or 90's at least before troubleshooting anything else.

I'm no cable expert, but that's should be your best bet to fix any problems you are having with pixelation or picture stuttering on any hd channels.


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## esb1981

Got my new Tivo box, still pixelation on two channels. Cox came out AGAIN and could not fix the problem. Also, got two new cable cards (my 5th and 6th in the last week), and not only does the pixelation continue but I have 4 HD channels that have been out for 2 weeks, and Cox cannot figure out the problem and neither can Tivo. It's all a lot of BS. Cox sent out their "lead tech" yesterday and he had no answers. He also said he was going to find out from someone else who has 2 Tivo's with CC's if they have the same 4 channels out, but of course he has not called me back.


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## slyone

That built in Diagnostics feature seems kinda nice for a real novice such as myself! It seems all my channels are coming in at between 93-100% signal strength except for channel 1030(TW)frequency says 741000KHz
connector type-RF2
This one seems bad though the blocky/jittery video I've seen is most apparent on Live sporting events usually on channel 1007 WUHFHD frequency-579000...which gets 93-100% signal.
I figured the sporting may be due to the type of camera's/feeds right from the Live Event.


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## westtown73

My problem was solved by replacing the cable going to the THD. The signal strength on the problem channels fluctuated from 0 to no higher than about 60. I put in a call to Comcast. They measured the signal at the bad frequencies at the house and found it was okay. He said they look at the SNR and need to have a value greater than 32. Anyway, he created a cable to replace the Monster Video Mini and the signal strength jumped up to 87 and the SNR is stable 34 or 35. I've had a few brief hits of small tiling since the new cable was put in place but if I wasn't looking for it, Iwouldn't have noticed it.


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## richsadams

westtown73 said:


> My problem was solved by replacing the cable going to the THD. The signal strength on the problem channels fluctuated from 0 to no higher than about 60. I put in a call to Comcast. They measured the signal at the bad frequencies at the house and found it was okay. He said they look at the SNR and need to have a value greater than 32. Anyway, he created a cable to replace the Monster Video Mini and the signal strength jumped up to 87 and the SNR is stable 34 or 35. I've had a few brief hits of small tiling since the new cable was put in place but if I wasn't looking for it, Iwouldn't have noticed it.


Good feedback...and not the first time someone has replaced their coax and cleared things up. Sometimes it's the most basic things that help. Thanks for that. :up:


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## e30cabrio

I have had this issue since I got my S3 TiVo almost three months ago. As it was happening on the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD I blamed the signal & dealt with Cox.

During this time Cox has been out no less than 10 times, swapped at least 6 sets of Cable Cards and r&r&#8217;d all of the cable between the tap & the TVs. 

Thursday I had them bring a new Scientific Atlanta 8450HDC to see if it was happening on their box.

I recorded the same shows (Network HD, History, discovery, USA regular def) on the TiVo there is pixilation, on the Scientific Atlanta none.

This lead me to call TiVo, I told them all that has been done, they asked what the signal strength from the tap was in DB, I had no idea as the Cox people are talking about strength in 0-100 terms and I have 95-100. As I want to watch the Superbowl without issues I went to Radioshack & got a signal amp. Without it on the CC diag screen I had 97/35db sn ratio. 

I put in the amp and the numbers went down to 80/32 but the pixilation has gone away! I have had it installed since 11am cst and have as yet to see anything but pure wonderful HDTV. I am hoping Cox has a way to reduce the sn so I can get my 40.00 back but if not that&#8217;s the solution so far for me.


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## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> I put in the amp and the numbers went down to 80/32 but the pixilation has gone away! I have had it installed since 11am cst and have as yet to see anything but pure wonderful HDTV. I am hoping Cox has a way to reduce the sn so I can get my 40.00 back but if not that's the solution so far for me.


That's a very interesting situation because the signal amp you are using is actually attenuating the signal, not amplifying it. (Is it one of those adjustable types?)

$40 is a lot for an attenuator...but if it works who can argue. You might still want to try some basic line attenuators to save some money.

Good info though. Keep us posted! :up:

BTW, comparisons to the cableco DVR's is more-or-less apples and oranges. Cableco DVR's generally use proprietary processors, not cable cards.


----------



## e30cabrio

It is this:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...ifier&kw=cable+tv+amplifier&parentPage=search

And there has still been no pixilation.

It actually has a Scientific Atlanta cable card.


----------



## richsadams

Thanks for that...one of the newer DVR's. Most cableco's are still issuing Motorola (no cable card) boxes. TiVo made some pretty big gains w/SA cable cards after their fall update, but they still appear to have more trouble with them than the Motorola cable cards for some reason.

I think I have one of the older versions of the Radio Shack "signal amp" and IIRC it didn't help...but that was way before TiVo. Is that an adjustment knob on the side?

I found one of the comments in the customer ratings interesting...



> Note: This device will not amplify a weak signal or improve a poor reception.(sic)


 Seems at odds with what it's supposed to do. 

In any case, glad it's working for you and let us know how things go.


----------



## e30cabrio

Per the cable guy it is the latest SA HDDVR & is using the same M card that is available on it's own. 

The thing on the side is the wire for the wall wart. I think the people saying it killed signal installed it wrong. It has to have the "filter" looking part at the wall side of the cable and the power injector part at the end or it kills all signal.

Watching HBO HD on 780 I had a bit of minor pixilation. Check the cc diag screen it is at 33, change the cable for an older one, goes down to 31/32 pixilation gone.


----------



## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> Per the cable guy it is the latest SA HDDVR & is using the same M card that is available on it's own.
> 
> The thing on the side is the wire for the wall wart. I think the people saying it killed signal installed it wrong. It has to have the "filter" looking part at the wall side of the cable and the power injector part at the end or it kills all signal.
> 
> Watching HBO HD on 780 I had a bit of minor pixilation. Check the cc diag screen it is at 33, change the cable for an older one, goes down to 31/32 pixilation gone.


Good info, thanks. Minor tiling/pixelation once in a while is to be expected, especially with broadcast HD. It happens with our OTA antenna connected directly to our HD TV. But of course it shouldn't happen all of the time.

Your "fix" may be able to help others with the same issues. :up:


----------



## e30cabrio

Glad to help. I am shocked that the solution is decreasing signal, seems backwards to me.


----------



## quick

e30cabrio said:


> Glad to help. I am shocked that the solution is decreasing signal, seems backwards to me.


Well after replacing my M-Card, things were fine for 3-4 days, but no more.. bad pixelation on hd channels, and i tried the suggestion of reducing the signal, I put 4 splitters in even right near the TivoHD and making sure the signal meter shows good signal strength, I still have pixelation/tiling bad...

Only thing left to do is switch the box out, not sure if that will fix the problem either...


----------



## richsadams

quick said:


> Well after replacing my M-Card, things were fine for 3-4 days, but no more.. bad pixelation on hd channels, and i tried the suggestion of reducing the signal, I put 4 splitters in even right near the TivoHD and making sure the signal meter shows good signal strength, I still have pixelation/tiling bad...
> 
> Only thing left to do is switch the box out, not sure if that will fix the problem either...


Bummer (technical term). Splitters, particularly good ones, won't necessarily attenuate the signal or do so enough to make a real difference. It might be worthwhile to give some actual attenuators a try. True attenuation will reduce your signal strength and enough of it will kill the signal completely. Otherwise it sounds like you've done what you can do.


----------



## SCSIRAID

quick said:


> Well after replacing my M-Card, things were fine for 3-4 days, but no more.. bad pixelation on hd channels, and i tried the suggestion of reducing the signal, I put 4 splitters in even right near the TivoHD and making sure the signal meter shows good signal strength, I still have pixelation/tiling bad...
> 
> Only thing left to do is switch the box out, not sure if that will fix the problem either...


I would suggest that you repeat the 'RS uncorrected' test on both tuners and see if the pixelation is limited to only one tuner. If both tuners show the issue then I would expect that it is a signal issue and not the TiVo. Have you done some watching with a cableco box and see if the issue repeats there?


----------



## quick

SCSIRAID said:


> I would suggest that you repeat the 'RS uncorrected' test on both tuners and see if the pixelation is limited to only one tuner. If both tuners show the issue then I would expect that it is a signal issue and not the TiVo. Have you done some watching with a cableco box and see if the issue repeats there?


I will check again. Last time I checked it (before replacing mcard) it was limited to one tuner, maybe it was because of the channel since it seems to be certain channels only.

Also I have a Comcast SA 8300HD hddvr, which has no pixelation problems what so ever and they are both connected at the same location and same jack.



richsadams said:


> Bummer (technical term). Splitters, particularly good ones, won't necessarily attenuate the signal or do so enough to make a real difference. It might be worthwhile to give some actual attenuators a try. True attenuation will reduce your signal strength and enough of it will kill the signal completely. Otherwise it sounds like you've done what you can do.


Thanks, can you recommend an attenuator to get?


----------



## richsadams

quick said:


> Thanks, can you recommend an attenuator to get?


This thread was started by folks w/FIOS a while back because they seem to have some real problems with signal strength (too strong). Attenuation appears to have helped in a number of cases. Some of it seems to apply to "regular" cable as well.

Here is some of the step-by-step info for using attenuators as well as a link to an inexpensive source:



> Steps to Fix
> 1.	Order a pack of attenuators. These screw on to the end of the coax.
> 
> http://www.smarthome.com/7800.html
> 
> 2.	Find a channel with pixelization.
> 
> 3.	Once you've found a channel with pixelization, open Settings -> System Information -> Diagnostics. With this screen, you can monitor your SNR and number of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors.
> 
> Your goal is to completely eliminate the RS Uncorrected errors and the fluctuation in the SNR. A few occasional RS Corrected errors are fine; it is the RS Uncorrected Errors that indicate pixelization.
> 
> 4.	Disconnect the coax cable from the TiVo.
> 
> Note the process of disconnecting and reconnecting the coax will result in a lot of RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected errors, but don't worry about that. Only worry about errors that increment after the cable is firmly connected.
> 
> 5.	Most seem to require -10dB to -16dB of new attenuation. Some require as much as -20dB. I would start with -20dB and work your way down.
> 
> Screw one -20dB attenuator onto the end of the coax cable. Then reconnect the coax back to the TiVo.
> 
> 6.	Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> 7.	If not, or you aren't getting a picture, disconnect the coax again and repeat using one -10dB attenuator and one -6dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> 8.	If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using one -10dB attenuator and one -2dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> 9.	If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using a single -10dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> 10.	If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using a single -6dB attenuator.
> 
> 11.	By now, the problem should be fixed.


Based on the various posts, using them has fixed the problems and people swear by them...others not so much and they swear at them.


----------



## e30cabrio

Since my last post I have had (much less) but still pixilation. As the 90 days are up today (on the free replacement) I decided to accept TiVo's offer of a replacement unit as this is not the first issue and I want to be sure I don't have a faulty unit and have to pay 49.99 to replace it after the 90th day.

When the new unit comes (man I really don't want to set up a new unit) I'll post the results.


----------



## quick

richsadams said:


> This thread was started by folks w/FIOS a while back because they seem to have some real problems with signal strength (too strong). Attenuation appears to have helped in a number of cases. Some of it seems to apply to "regular" cable as well.
> 
> Here is some of the step-by-step info for using attenuators as well as a link to an inexpensive source:
> 
> Based on the various posts, using them has fixed the problems and people swear by them...others not so much and they swear at them.


Thanks! I will try this out...


----------



## keeganj

Tivo HD
Purchased a Tivo HD for my bedroom, Tuner never worked, tried 3 different M cards. No video signal just a grey screen whether cable cards were in or out. I was however able to transfer content from my Living Room Series 3 and watch it in the Bedroom. After 3 visits with Time Warner Cable, decided to replace Tivo HD unit. Tivo is sending out a new unit and waiving the shipping (which took some haggling since I was over 30 days,) not exactly an act of largesse on their part considering it never worked.

Series 3 
Just over a year old, started randomly rebooting a week ago, oddly enough shortly after I added the Tivo HD to my network. When I was able to re-boot the Series 3, I would encounter problems whenever tuned to a HD Channel. I would have the screen freeze randomly, then start again, and eventually freeze up and the box would become unresponsive to the remote. Had cable rep check signal strength and everything seemed fine. Having another tech call today to replace the 2 S-cards. I have a sneaky suspicion it is the Tivo Series 3 unit and not the cable cards. Its over a year old and off the warranty, things could get ugly on the Tivo hotline.

I also have a cable box on my system and encounter no problems with tuning HD channels. I think signal strength is the least likely culprit. I think it is a battle between the Series 3 Hard Drive and the Cable Cards. I am open to any suggestions from the Tivo Community.


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## e30cabrio

I got the replacement today, set it up it has 37DB & 95-100 signal & 0 RS Uncorrected & 0 Corrected errors on the same channels that had errors spinning like the electricity meter during the Super Bowl. 

No pixilation. Apparently the old unit had issues.


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## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> I got the replacement today, set it up it has 37DB & 95-100 signal & 0 RS Uncorrected & 0 Corrected errors on the same channels that had errors spinning like the electricity meter during the Super Bowl.
> 
> No pixilation. Apparently the old unit had issues.


Thanks for the update...and glad to hear the new one is behaving! :up:


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## jefny

I have had the TIVO HD for about 7 weeks with 2 cable cards and have had two ongoing problems-one involved a gray screen for channels 23 and above (occurring about every 2 weeks) and the second pixilation but only the last 2 weeks.

It just so happened that my cable provider sent out a letter on quality of image, promising a free on-site visit and so I made an appointment.

A tech spent 4 hours upgrading cabling and connections which generally improved images on my non-TIVO TV's but the pixillation continued (strangely enough only on a few channels but not the high def ones). The signal was coming in strong and clear according to his meter.

He then proceeded to change the cable cards and the pixilation disappeared. 

Three days later I lost all channels above 22 (about the third time) and callerd TIVO. Their response was not too comforting. The claimed the problem was the NDS cable cards which has "issues" with TIVO's which are being worked out. There was no time estimation when this would be completed.

I then called Cablevision and their "Cable card expert" seemed to know exactly what the problem was and it was resolved in 5 minutes. I have no way of knowing how accurate his assessment was but this is what he said which appeared reasonable to me.

He stated the real problem was between TIVO and the cablecards in how they communicate. It appears that when TIVO sends out updates to my box the cards often have problems causing pixilation and the gray screen. The solution (which worked for me) was to reset the system and then have Cablevision "refresh" the cards and now they are back to communicating.

This means that until TIVO resolves the issues with Cablevisions NDS cable cards I will have to do this every couple of weeks.

It appears that the Cablevision tech is more knowledgeable on this issue than the TIVO techs.

John


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## jefny

This is an update to the previous post by me. Several days later pixilation is back but only on 2 channels. Of course TIVO support had no answer and this time I called corporate offices in California to file a complaint about the uselessness of their support. I spoke to an individual who was sympathetic, stated that there are known problems between TIVO HD's and cable cards, especially NDS and promised to speak to a very high level engineer and get back to me.

He stated it might also be a hardware issue as we have a second TIVO HD in the house which doesn't seem to have the same problems despite using Cablevision's NDS cards.

John


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## quick

Update from me as well...

Purchased the attenuators that were recommended earlier, added a 6db,3db,10db and got my SNR down to 31db-33db levels..

Pixelation has gone away so far, but there is still quite a few of uncorrected and correct errors in the diagnostics... I have gone ahead and ordered another TivoHD replacement anyway, I've had other issues with the box so it can't hurt to just swap out the unit, will update once I get the new unit tomorrow.


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## jefny

Second update. Dave from Tivo called in response to my call to corporate and he had me go through all sorts of diagnostics on the "bad" channels. You can actually see signal loss every few minutes with one cable card worse than the other. According to Dave this is a known problem with NDS cards. We repeated the diagnostics with the second box which has no pixilation problem and sure enough the card diagnostics showed a steady signal for the same channels.

The second TIVO is much further away from the source coming into the house and Dave thought that it is getting a slightly weaker signal which sometimes helps. He recommended getting an attenuator to weaken the signal to my first box. He suggested that I swap boxes but my daughter is paranoid that the result will ruin her picture. 

Tivo, according to Dave, is working with Cablevision and NDS on the card problem and hope to have a solution in the near future. I will report back on the results with the attenuators.

John


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## keeganj

Replaced both units from Tivo. Both working fine. Bad Tuner on Tivo HD, and I think I had a bad hard drive on the Series 3.


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## esb1981

I think I've finally cleared up my pixelation, after 2 months of trying. What seems to have done the trick was Cox putting a signal equalizer/tilt compensator on the line (this levels out the signal on all frequencies). Then I replaced one last piece of older (though RG-6) coax, and finally I attenuated down -3db. My problem channel still shows higher-than-normal corrected errors if I leave it on for a number of hours, but no uncorrected errors. My feeling is there is some problem with the signal -- maybe higher than normal bit errors or something -- and the imperfect cabling, too hot a signal, too much signal from lower-frequency channels, plus the mere existence of cable cards was enough to turn this into pixelation on that channel. There's probably still a problem on the channel, but it's not enough to cause significant pixelation anymore.

Too bad I'm still having other serious problems with the Tivo, like inexplicably missing channels...


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## sturdydog

I too am having pixelation troubles with Verizon FIOS. I have a question I have not seen anybody touch on. I have two TiVos. One Series 3, one HD. The Series 3 works perfect, hardly ever seen a corrected packet and never a an uncorrected one. While the HD has all kinds of issues and many channels are only useable only after 24db of attenuatuation. Believe me all things are equal between the units from a signal standpoint as I have swapped cable cards / cables / splitters everyway possible and the results are the same.

The one thing that I find different between the two is the Series 3 shows Channel Bits: 30750 in the diagnostics screen, while the HD unit shows 30746. What does this number mean? Could this be the cause of my problems?


----------



## ciucca

sturdydog said:


> I too am having pixelation troubles with Verizon FIOS. I have a question I have not seen anybody touch on. I have two TiVos. One Series 3, one HD. The Series 3 works perfect, hardly ever seen a corrected packet and never a an uncorrected one. While the HD has all kinds of issues and many channels are only useable only after 24db of attenuatuation. Believe me all things are equal between the units from a signal standpoint as I have swapped cable cards / cables / splitters everyway possible and the results are the same.
> 
> The one thing that I find different between the two is the Series 3 shows Channel Bits: 30750 in the diagnostics screen, while the HD unit shows 30746. What does this number mean? Could this be the cause of my problems?


I get the same "30750" on my tivoHD. All we can do is speculate, don't expect any Tivo people who read this board to respond with the truth.

It is MO that they made an executive decision to deny the problem is theirs. It is probably a hardware deficiency that cannot be corrected by the software. You will probably see the next generation (s4?) have different tuner circuitry or a new rev of the present s3 with the circuitry fixed. Either way they will never admit the error. If they did they would have to replace every S3 and HD out there, which they are too cheap to do, or more realistically will tip them into chap. 11.


----------



## sturdydog

ciucca said:


> I get the same "30750" on my tivoHD.


Are you saying that you have 30750 and you have problems? My unit that shows that number has ZERO problems.


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## ciucca

sturdydog said:


> Are you saying that you have 30750 and you have problems? My unit that shows that number has ZERO problems.


ah, my mistake. I meant the other number


----------



## sturdydog

ciucca said:


> ah, my mistake. I meant the other number


Ok then, maybe we are onto something here. What channel bits do others have that are having the problem? For that matter how about any of you that are not having problems, what number do you show?

So far this is the count

30746 - two units WITH problems
30750 - one unit and NO problems


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## SCSIRAID

sturdydog said:


> Ok then, maybe we are onto something here. What channel bits do others have that are having the problem? For that matter how about any of you that are not having problems, what number do you show?
> 
> So far this is the count
> 
> 30746 - two units WITH problems
> 30750 - one unit and NO problems


30750 and no problems (S3).


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## richsadams

30746 - Series3 w/2 Motorola "S" cable cards - No problems
30746 - TiVo HD w/1 Motorola "M" cable card - No problems


----------



## The Video Guru

Regarding grey screen on TiVo HD units, a bunch of us from the TiVo.com forum have been discussing this and TiVo, rightly so, pulled the posts.

TiVo has been sent the draft of the press release "TiVo HD Owners Consider Class-Action For Poor Product Engineering and Support: Group To Investigate Having A Judge Certify A Class For Lawsuit"

TiVo has not responded to the draft, but please read the release and if interested, send an email if intereted in joning the class, should a lawsit be filed and a class certified.

See http://www.silverknight.com/TiVo_HD_Owners_Consider_Class.htm


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## richsadams

Just as an FYI, the Forum is actually tivocommunity.com. TiVo, Inc. has nothing to do with this forum. It is operated by Capable Networks, an independant organization. As such TiVo, Inc. does not moderate this forum, does not have the ability to modify or remove posts, threads, etc.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that TiVo, Inc. has their own forum. I forget that it's even there it's so poor and probably why they have a link to this one. I've no idea why they waste their time with it. I'm sure they are fully capable of removing posts though...although based on what I've seen I suspect TiVo Inc. folks visit this forum more often than they do their own and probably don't pay much if any attention to the few posts that it gets.


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## mchief

Let's make some more attorneys rich. They are the only ones that benefit from Class Action. The last time I was involved, after about 5 years, I received a check for $1.74 as part of the class. Attorneys got the bulk of the $50M settlement.


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## richsadams

mchief said:


> Let's make some more attorneys rich. They are the only ones that benefit from Class Action. The last time I was involved, after about 5 years, I received a check for $1.74 as part of the class. Attorneys got the bulk of the $50M settlement.


+1 :up:

Plus I'd have a difficult time at best trying to demonstrate how I was "harmed" by a product like TiVo that was clearly malfunctioning and could easily be replaced under warranty. "Oh, those support calls, and the UPS shipping and deliveries...they've caused me _so _much mental pain and physical suffering!" 

Now if TiVo's airbag failed to deploy during an episode of Cop Rock or something..._then _I'd be inclined to get a bit litigious! 

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled programming already in progress (read: back OT).


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

mchief said:


> Let's make some more attorneys rich. They are the only ones that benefit from Class Action. The last time I was involved, after about 5 years, I received a check for $1.74 as part of the class. Attorneys got the bulk of the $50M settlement.


Sometimes it helps to smack a company on the side of the head with a "clue by four". That's what a class action lawsuit does. The lawyers make a lot of money; sometimes the "victims" lives are improved in some small way.

The attorneys are not always the *only ones* to benefit.


----------



## e30cabrio

richsadams said:


> +1 :up:
> 
> Plus I'd have a difficult time at best trying to demonstrate how I was "harmed" by a product like TiVo that was clearly malfunctioning and could easily be replaced under warranty. "Oh, those support calls, and the UPS shipping and deliveries...they've caused me _so _much mental pain and physical suffering!"
> 
> Now if TiVo's airbag failed to deploy during an episode of Cop Rock or something..._then _I'd be inclined to get a bit litigious!
> 
> Okay, back to our regularly scheduled programming already in progress (read: back OT).


My wife calls me a TiVo windbag because I always say how much I like it.

That said I feel TiVo support could stand some help. They just don't seem to care.


----------



## richsadams

e30cabrio said:


> My wife calls me a TiVo windbag because I always say how much I like it.
> 
> That said I feel TiVo support could stand some help. They just don't seem to care.


Agreed, I've had both good and mediocre service from TiVo CSR's over the years. My last round (billing) was especially frustrating...I was given total misinformation. However on other occasions it's been very pleasant and satisfactory. I haven't met a company yet that budgeted enough on training/paying their support people...hence there's often a revolving door.

I also think a lot has to do with both party's attitude going in. After having read some of the rants (some legit and others from another planet  ) here I can imagine how those folks came across with TiVo's CSR's. Couldn't pay me enough to deal with it!

However by comparison to other companies, TiVo support has been above average in my experience(s). There's always room for improvement though and YMMV.


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## mchief

Rich,

Make sure the Tivo doesn't spill your coffee in your lap.


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## richsadams

mchief said:


> Rich,
> 
> Make sure the Tivo doesn't spill your coffee in your lap.


I have one of the early Series3's that included a cup holder. I'm very careful about that sort of thing.


----------



## jefny

This is another update. I continued to have pixilation and loss of signal problems but I also realized many of the channels were also missing program information. I did find an answer to this problem of refreshing program information while ensuring that I was using the correct service (Cablevision of Long Island or Cablevision of Woodbury). As per instruction found on this forum I redid the part of setup that selects your cable provider. To be sure I selected a choice of not sure and after checking through a number of channels I finished the process and now all channels had program information. I also noticed that my pixilation problems of 2 channels (USA and AMC) were lessened. Rather than occurring every minute or so, this now occurred every 3 or 4 minutes. Coincidence?

Just yesterday my Internet ordered attenuators (Smarthome) arrived. I started by using 3 decibels with little effect. I then went to 6 db and again not much change. When I went to 10 db pixilation and loss of signal came only after 4 or 5 minutes but of briefer duration. I went to 13 db and watched both stations for up to ten minutes and no pixilation. I did notice a weakening of signals down to about 85-90 for both the USA and AMC channels. I checked other channels, especially the high def ones and everything was working fine though I did notice that signal strength for 777 (MonsterHD) was 45-50 but the image was fine.

I still have to record or watch something for a half hour or more to be sure if my problem is completely solved but so far so good. 

I should mention that I did speak again with TIVO support and they assured me that they were working on the problem of TIVO and the NDS cable cards with a solution coming over the next several months.

John


----------



## richsadams

Thanks for the update John. :up: The strength at which cable companies deliver their service can not only vary, but the strength of the various bands of channels delivered on certain frequencies can vary within that as well. It sounds like you've been able to attenuate the signal of the offending channels without compromising the rest...good job. 

A signal strength of 95 or 100 is fine, but my limited experiments show that PQ will usually remain good/stable until it drops to under 55 or so. It appears that there's no need to have excellent signal strength (90 - 100) on all channels. Although attenuation may lower the signal strength on all channels, you've demonstrated that it can correct the problems on some without impacting the quality of others.

I've no idea what TiVo is going to do software-wise to compensate for the cableco/cable card variations. If it works I wonder if folks will have to remove their various attenuators when the upgrade is distributed.


----------



## quick

Updating my situation...

Started with many visits from Comcast, signal strength was fine, replaced all cables. Purchased attenuators, helped reduce the frequency and intensity of pixelation I was having. Replaced M-Cards few times, no effect.

Finally replaced the Tivo unit and replaced it again due to problems activating my cable cards, which turned out the be the cards though. 2 weeks later finally got a working card with test channels showing, but got pixelation again on the new tivo unit, very disappointing. Put the attenuators back on seems to stop the pixelation, but I'm basically back to where I started with no real fix.


----------



## naybag

It seems like the specifics of the pixelation issues vary wildly. Here's mine.

Have had Tivo for about 4 months working great with no pixelation. Super Bowl Sunday arrives with heavy pixelation every 10 seconds or so, making the SUPER BOWL unwatchable. After some time and tinkering, we find that it's only Tuner 1 that pixelates on HD channels of NBC, CBS, FOX, and other "network" channels.

We swapped the cards between slots, and the problem moved to Tuner 2. Call Verizon Fios, they come out, replace the cards, and problem remains exactly the same.

I have some attenuators on the way... Any other thoughts/ideas out there?

_Tivo HD w/ Verizon Fios and 2 of their Motorola Cable Cards_


----------



## ciucca

naybag said:


> It seems like the specifics of the pixelation issues vary wildly. Here's mine.
> 
> ...
> 
> I have some attenuators on the way... Any other thoughts/ideas out there?
> 
> _Tivo HD w/ Verizon Fios and 2 of their Motorola Cable Cards_


I believe the only way to get rid of pixelation is with the attenuators. The problem is probably the Tivo Hardware, probably not fixable in software, probably TIVO will never admit it, and We are all probably going to have to live with it for the life of the S3/HD boxes we own.


----------



## naybag

Does/Has anyone else seen the pixelation ONLY on broadcast channels, such as CBS, FOX, etc. Tivo seemed to say that this indicated a problem with Fios despite other HD boxes working perfectly. 

Somehow i trust the "community" more than Tivo, at this point. Does anyone else have any additional insight on this particular set of problems?


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## cowboyshootist

When I had this problem it was pretty much all channels. A software update from Tivo has fixed the problem. I don't have any attenuators or amplifies on my connections. I do have Comcast cable for TV (FIOS for Internet). I do have a single M card which Comcast supplied and it's worked well from day one.

I will still occasionally get a hickup or two while watching a show but it's rare and usually one for a moment. I attribute that to glitches in the feed from the cable system and not Tivo.


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## hmm52

As of four weeks, I'm new to TiVO but not new to cablecards. I found this thread last week and would like to share my experiences for mutual benefit, hopefully. I've owned various cablecard devices for over two years. All are still in daily use. They are a first generation Sony XBR SXRD Tv built 10/05; two Sony DHG-HDD250 DVRs both built 7/05, purchased 11/05 & 7/06; a Toshiba 27HL95 LCD - 2/06,11/06. Four weeks ago I bought a series3, supposedly built 12/28/07 according to the TiVO CS agent (07Jan-08 on stamp). From Comcast I switched to Verizon FiOS Internet when first available in my area, then to FiOS TV about a year later - 11/29/06. My township in the Philadelphia suburbs was one of the first to in turn get both services from VZ. I've received HD by OTA and/or cable since January 2001 and have never used a service provider's DVR or STB. All VZ cablecards are Motorola version 4.21.
The HDD 250s have been in routine use for time slipping (90 minute buffer), for recording a few cable and broadcast programs, and very extensively for recording tennis tournaments - 10+ hours of daily coverage in the first week or so of the Majors. These Sony DVRs are known for bad behaviour from time to time, usually following a poor Gemstar TVGOS update or less frequently a Cablelab update. They are also prone to becoming unresponsive to commands when their disc drive is near full. I have periodically lost the use of each of them (to slip & record) for up to 4 sequential days, though almost never at the same time. So at least one of them has been fully functional throughout ownership of the two - probably just luck. Neither of these units have been sent to the Sony service center for updates or repair though I did do an update on one of them 5 months ago.
I bought the S3 out of concern that my luck with the Sonys would run out and for other reasons. Though with an excellent QAM tuner, they depend upon analog carried data for the guide which is also very slow to repopulate if a reset results in loss of all data, as it sometimes does. There remain open questions about what will happen with next year's transition and about long term support from Sony and the new Gemstar/Macrovision entity (They have full control over TVGOS). I'm more concerned about the latter as VZ is already doing a VBI digital to analog conversion for closed captioning in their converted lower channels but not for TVGOS data. A 4 way bowtie antenna remains in my setup for this purpose and for the times when the bedroom Toshiba is pitching fits with VZ's local HD feed. 
For years I've known TiVO to have a very loyal following. Their business model is based almost entirely on the functionality of their DVRs and the substantial subscription revenue derived from them. Sony made the HDD250s & 500s for just a brief period in 2005 without any real promotion. Guide data and software updates are directly and quickly acquired online with the TiVOs. I chose the S3 mainly because of the ease and free choice of adding eSATA storage, and because of its front panel display (I didn't realize that, unlike the Sony's, it appears only during recording and the characters are so tiny as to be near useless unless it's sitting next to you - clock excepted). It was my understanding is that the S3 was in planning for quite some time before production. It has been on the market for many months (18?) so presumably the new product bugs should have been worked out by now. The S3 does have many features and advantages over the Sony units (definitely not in basic recording & functions however). But with 4 weeks of ownership, I'm quite surprised that the HD TiVOs seem to still be in the Beta phase. The question is whether or not TiVO Inc. will finish the job on the current models or simply move on to the next generation. 
I'm not wild about the fact that my S3 has sputtered into restart 10 times when either my wife or I have been in the room (the display really comes to life then! - 3 green screens observed). This is something the Toshiba repeatedly did out of the box until Tosh. CS finally got someone to do an update 3 mo.s after purchase. My larger concern is the S3's severe vulnerability to less than perfect CATV signals. It doesn't take much tiling (pixelation, macroblocking) to annoy the hell out of you. As with the potential quality of an HD picture, the accuracy of picture displayed depends on everything in the stream. I've witnessed this on my other devices. For the first 6 mo.s or so with FiOS, everything was perfect. Mid summer last year, the Toshiba began tiling badly on all local HD channels, as well as on a few others in SD & HD. Over a period of days and visits with cablecard and feed swaps, VZ techs checked out every possible thing in the house. Final determination was that it was a street or nearby CO (central office) problem - maintenance/repair usually done only after midnight). Within 24 hours the Toshiba's tiling vanished and a tech called to confirm that it was at the CO. 
Tiling has resurfaced from time to time since then, reaching its worst ever in November when the Toshiba had horrific tiling on all local HDs and severe tiling on half the remaining SD & HD channels. VZ techs then replaced the ONT (optical network terminal) with a newer version; same for the splitter, router, inline filter and several cable terminals. No improvement. Once again the problem was at the CO. It was completely resolved within 36 hours after the last house visit. Since November tiling has been episodic and severe only on the local HDs and HBOHD. As the Toshiba is a secondary display used at most for 45 minutes weeknights, more so on weekends by my wife, I've just switched to the OTA local HDs in the guide (also TVGOS) when VZ has had signal issues. How many support calls are you allowed before being blacklisted?
With one exception in over 2 years, the Sony cablecard equipment (1 Tv, 2 DVRs) has exhibited only the most mild tiling - one small to medium macroblock every 30 to 60 seconds or so. These 3 units did this to the same limited level in November when the Toshiba was struggling to provide any channel in near watchable form. The one exception happened in the DVRs' recording of ESPN2HD's coverage of the Australian Open on two consecutive nights at 3:30AM last month; there was severe tiling in each night's first half hour of recording. I suspect that VZ was doing work at the local CO those times. Outside of this exception, the tuning of the 3 Sony devices has been rock solid flawless since November. Naturally I came to think of the Toshiba as the canary in the coal mine with respect to VZ's signal quality. Its picture would disintegrate well before anything would start to be amiss with the Sonys. 
All things considered, I really didn't expect to be owning another canary with the S3 (better - much more sensitive and with a far superior diagnostics screen). But it has been exactly that so far. For much of the first 2 weeks with the TiVO, the Toshiba was also having tiling problems, though not as broadly as the S3. Only 1 card was inserted, tuner 1, for the first 2.5 weeks and, until last week, I only monitored channels I was ever likely to watch. The S3 could not properly tune the local HDs, HBO - 1 HD & 2 SD, and Starz - 2SD. All other channels were fine. The tiling varied hour by hour - sometimes completely gone, often horrific. Many calls were made to VZ. I tried some of the handful of attenuators a VZ tech had given me. I was able to freeze the RS uncorrected values on the local HDs where the SS & SNR values had been swinging wildly; tiling be gone. But it came at a high cost. Attenuation caused either complete dropout of a channel (HBO HD) or other channels RSuc numbers to fly off the charts. For tuner 1 in this period the problem frequency ranges were 507-525mghz (8 local HD on 4 frequencies) and 633-645mghz (HBOHD & 4 premium SD). When checked by VZ at device end, the signal level was fine, 0db, but of course tiling had taken the day off in honor of the visit. 
Recently I did find out from a tech that there is a better ONT than the one I have - better at filtering/blocking errors. In fact the Nov. tech intimated that the replacement unit wasn't his first choice. Apparently VZ is only installing Motorola ONTs now, not the Tel Lab ONT I have, unless there's an issue. It is not allowed in my location because of an incompatibility with the old equipment at the local CO. Since mid summer, I've thought that VZ would resist doing any serious upgrades at the CO and VHO level until they begin having problems with their own customer end equipment. This may in fact be happening now at a location served by the same CO. 3 miles from me VZ is experiencing major difficulties in getting anything to work properly at a townhouse complex. Who knows? Maybe there's room for optimism on the signal source end of the stream. 
Back to displays... The Toshiba's tiling stopped around 2/10. By Valentine's Day 2/14, the S3 stopped tiling as well on channels I'd observed. I gave T1C1 (tuner 1) 3 days of no tiling before adding a second card on the 17th at T0C2, slot 2. (A 5th card was scheduled for delivery the 20th; setup is easiest on the SXRD.) 
[FYI: I've never called for a tech to install or swap cablecards between devices once they've been activated and initialized. My procedure has been to put the device into standby, unplug it, wait 5 minutes, insert card, plug into outlet, and power on. (Bring TiVO out of standby) Within a few minutes all is up to speed. Sometimes a hunt for network in the cc menu seems to nudge things along. This has always worked for the 3 Sony units, the Toshiba, same for the S3. Usually to be avoided is supplying current to device with cc removed as you'll, at least, be asked to redo setup - time consuming on the TiVO, incredibly tedious on the Sony DVRs as each desired channel needs to be individually mapped to your position of preference (the price of a free guide). I'm not sure if I've ever bypassed the TiVO repeat guided setup question or have only ignored or agreed to it at different times.]
The results with T0 so far have not been great. (Since enough card swaps have been done inter and intra device, it's not significant to note that it's cablecard 2; the problem is at T0.) While T1 has continued to be fine except for very occasional tiling with the local FoxHD and Comcast Sportsnet HD, 519 & 639 mghz respectively, T0 has been a different story. Though I didn't monitor "all received" channels until mid week, I'm pretty sure that faults were consistent from late Sunday the 17th through most of Friday 2/22. Problem frequencies at T0 were as follows: 591 - 2HD, 597 - 1HD, 639 - 1HD, 645 - 1HD, 2SD, 711 - 1HD, 729 - 5SD, 771 - 3SD, 777 - 10SD. (Channel bits seen at both levels for both good & bad tune) Fox is the only local channel that tiles. The number of problem channels began to shrink quite a bit by Friday night. Saturday yielded the best results to date - clear picture with RSuc at zero on all channels except for the 3 SDs at 771mghz and the 10 SDs at 777mghz. At those frequencies there is no signal lock/tune, where there's oscillation between QAM256 and QAM64 or there's complete fragmentation into tiny mosaics. (T0 seems to give an especially hard hit to cartoon, 2nd tier sport, and religious programs.) Drift began Sunday so that now there is additionally no tune for the 5 SDs at 729, and unacceptably high RSucs again for the 2 HDs on 639 and 711, the only two channels with which T1 has any continuing difficulties once in awhile.
With TiVo and other cablecard devices, there's been much suspicion about the cards themselves when troubles occur; CATV techs included. Out of curiousity, and frustration, I pulled the card from slot 2 last Wednesday while the S3 was powered up and without repeating guided setup. I wasn't surprised that there was no change whatsoever in the values for T0. With both T0 and T1 tuned to the same HD channel, the values were the following: T1 - SS 90/95, SNR 35db, RSc/RSuc 0/131 in 8 minutes; T0 - SS 59/68, SNR 29/31, RSuc 5400 in 4 minutes. The values for all other issue channels also remained as they were before card removal. While the ONTs with VZ may indeed filter/correct errors in the signal, I doubt that any cc has been designed for that role. (though it might introduce its own possibly) The fact that tuning accuracy has varied so widely at both T0 and T1 in 4 weeks of observation also suggests that it is not a matter of the S3's tuners "getting along" with the cablecard. Though some have held out the M series card as the Holy Grail, I can't see how it would help with my situation. (VZ doesn't have it yet anyway.) Perhaps Verizon is doing something wrong with their encryption which is challenging some QAM tuners. I've heard that the Phila. VHO has really irritated many customers who haven't been able to tune the local HDs on QAM w/o cablecard since November when VZ began providing a non conforming signal. (Unlike Comcast, VZ is not a member of ATSC. Normally a QAM tuner has no difficulty tuning/displaying any non encrypted digital signal.) The problems have occurred only with certain brands, Sony for example, but also with the 19" LCDs that VZ recently gave away to new customers! (They're "working on the problem". Still...2/26) An old LG receiver I have will tune the locals on digital; not so with the Sonys. 
With no real knowledge of consumer electronics, I can't draw any conclusions about what I've seen on the S3. - Just semi-educated guesses based on my own experience and on those posted in this thread and others. These HD TiVOs seem to be in a class of their own regarding vulnerability to weak signal quality. With my S3, tuner 1 is very highly sensitive, tuner 0 extraordinarily so. I 've received less than ideal signals from VZ for half the time I've used their service - the recent half. The devices I own vary widely in their tolerance of it. On a scale of 1-10 in ability to receive a less than perfect signal then display a clean picture, I'd give the 3 Sony devices a 9, the Toshiba Tv a 3, the TiVO S3 a 1 on tuner 1, an 0.5 on tuner 0. I haven't yet decided if it's a linear or geometric progression. While the values on the diagnostics screen wander with imperfect feed, I think they're only very rough reflections of signal quality; moreover they're revealing how well or badly the TiVO is tuning (differences between T1 & T0, same signal). With VZ anyway, it is not unique to me to have service deteriorate after many months of perfection; fiber optic cabling hasn't prevented expansion problems. With many of their best techs sent to far flung territories to oversee new installations, the focus seems to be on maximizing fannies in seats. While I'm glad that somebody eventually tinkers with things on their end to greatly improve signal quality, I have zero belief that it will stay that way - not at least until my CO's equipment and ONT are upgraded. TiVOs, at this point anyway, seem to require the best equipment and settings throughout the stream. 
Just the posts on this thread indicate that many people across the country, with various cablecards and service providers, are seeing the same deficiencies in their TiVO's tuning. My guess is that while signal amplitude may often be the culprit for local HDs (too high), the tuning weaknesses are not limited to that. While TiVOs seem to have a narrow range of signal amplitude in which they can tune properly, their problem is much broader than amplitude alone. I've no clue whether it's more software than hardware or vice versa, though I suspect the first. Perhaps a dual tuner HD DVR, along with its other features, was too ambituous a project for TiVO engineers. "Here's your new ride. Enjoy it. Just don't drive on anything but freshly resurfaced Autobahns. Slow way down for bends in the road. And for God's sake, park it if storm clouds appear." Maybe a dragster isn't all that well suited to real world circumstances. 
If I didn't have access to a decent OTA feed, or if there were any problems at all with channels most recorded, I would have returned the S3 in the first week. (though ESPN2HD is not far from TCM which has tiled on the Toshiba in the past, not recently.) It's hard for me to believe that TiVO Inc. would be so brazen as to not finish the job on these DVRs, thereby leaving many of their most loyal customers with an inferior product. (multiple TiVO DVR owners). I can't see Verizon ignoring forever its early adopters served with obsolete equipment. Am I too optimistic?
I'm curious as to how many of you have exchanged units with TiVO, because of tiling on T0 and/or T1, and have had no further issues for at least two weeks. Same for M series card replacements. I haven't mentioned my calls to TiVO CS reps. The agents have been courteous and generally eager to help, but their advice hasn't been all that useful. On alternate calls I've been advised to attenuate and boost the feed. So would that be one of each? 2 of one & 3 of the other? Or tailored to the channel to be watched/recorded? Several times I've been told that HD TiVOs do indeed have very sensitive tuners. Do you mean that also in a good way? Or just the bad way I'm confronted with that results in ugly tiling? I'm flippant about their suggestions only here, not on the phone with the agents. I'd never want to be on the front line for a company that has unresolved faults in their product. As long term TiVO customers, do you all see this company fixing the bugs in these two DVRs?

Sorry for the typos & redundancies. Gotta go....


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## Welshdog

So tonight I was watching Jericho on a TivoHD recorded in HD from a terrestrial broadcast. I saw at least 5 hits of pixelation and audio drops outs during the show. Same thing on Eli Stone recorded the same way. No cable cards at all, but I do have analog cable. I have seen the same things on my Series 3.

It seems to me that the pixelation problems are universal and like a previous poster said most likely a Tivo hardware design flaw. Even if the pixelation is triggered by an flaw in the signal, the Tivo does a cruddy job of handling it. I would be nice if tivo could find a software fix for this, but I am not holding my breath.


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## richsadams

Okay...*hmm52*...welcome to the forum...I think. You are certainly in the running for the longest post on the forum this year, and perhaps for previous years, but I'm not taking the time to check. I'm sure your post was filled with valuable knowledge, but I got lost somewhere near half way and skimmed the rest.

I did pick up on a couple of things. If your Series3 has rebooted repeatedly and you've seen the GSOD more than a few times, your hard drive is most likely failing. That is not normal behavior and you should contact TiVo for a replacement. If you're experiencing tiling/macroblocking you can try following the advice about attenuating your FIOS signal.

We have had our Series3 w/Comcast/Motorola "S" cable cards for over a year and (with brief exceptions which are to be expected) do not experience the tiling issue. We've had our TiVo HD w/Comcast/Motorola "M" cable card for a few months and have not had any problems either. We've never had to return any TiVo's over the years. That's not to say there aren't problems now and then, but most of the people that find their way to this forum have problems...the other four plus million that have TiVo subscriptions are apparently doing okay.

With regard to bugs and software updates, this post by a TiVo employee that frequents the forum has more info.

If you'd like an answer to a specific question, it's best to make it simple and short otherwise you're likely to be ignored.

Good luck...I think.


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## SCSIRAID

Welshdog said:


> So tonight I was watching Jericho on a TivoHD recorded in HD from a terrestrial broadcast. I saw at least 5 hits of pixelation and audio drops outs during the show. Same thing on Eli Stone recorded the same way. No cable cards at all, but I do have analog cable. I have seen the same things on my Series 3.
> 
> It seems to me that the pixelation problems are universal and like a previous poster said most likely a Tivo hardware design flaw. Even if the pixelation is triggered by an flaw in the signal, the Tivo does a cruddy job of handling it. I would be nice if tivo could find a software fix for this, but I am not holding my breath.


I disagree with your first statement about pixelation being a TiVo flaw but absolutely agree with your second statement. I have both an SA8300 DVR and an S3 side by side.... For a while I was recording the same shows on both to experiment with the pixelation issues. I found that when an S3 recording pixelated I could go to the 8300 and find a glitch at the very same place. The difference was that compared to the 8300, the S3 was having a heart attack where the 8300 was displaying a minor glitch. TiVo mpeg error recovery needs improvement.


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## ciucca

I work in the consumer electronic software industry. Although I don't work for TIVO I can't see the following not also being true for TIVO software development.

This problem has been discussed on these boards for over a year and half. If it could be fixed in software it would have been already, a few releases have gone by since it was first reported. Usually if it hasn't been fixed in 2 releases, it's due to total incompetence, or the SE has exhausted all software possibilities to fix it. TIVO is not a company with a lot of financial assets, if they admit there is a problem and they admit there is no software solution then they will probably go out of business. Their only course of action is to deflect blame to the signal provider.


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## richsadams

SCSIRAID said:


> TiVo mpeg error recovery needs improvement.


Bingo! :up: :up: :up:


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## richsadams

ciucca said:


> I work in the consumer electronic software industry. Although I don't work for TIVO I can't see the following not also being true for TIVO software development.
> 
> This problem has been discussed on these boards for over a year and half. If it could be fixed in software it would have been already, a few releases have gone by since it was first reported. Usually if it hasn't been fixed in 2 releases, it's due to total incompetence, or the SE has exhausted all software possibilities to fix it. TIVO is not a company with a lot of financial assets, if they admit there is a problem and they admit there is no software solution then they will probably go out of business. Their only course of action is to deflect blame to the signal provider.


I'd agree to a major extent, however given the variables between cableco and even local OTA signal delivery equipment (particularly in light of Verizon's entry into the market w/FIOS) I'm not so sure that I'd give up hope that things can be resolved.

It's obvious that there are marked differences with providers from one part of the country to the other; both cableco and OTA. It's a real patch work out there. Often small enterprises have been purchased by one of the big boys (TW, Cox, Comcast, etc.) and although they've done their best to integrate the systems, it hasn't been pretty. Local broadcasters work on shoe string budgets at times as well. It's true that all companies are working with the same standards, but meeting those standards is anything but...well, standard.

That said, there are literally millions of TiVo's in the wild that would appear to be operating normally as ours do. That's not to say that the issues many folks on the forum are running into aren't TiVo's "fault". But again, given the huge disparity in what could be considered a "good" incoming signal on all frequencies, I'm honestly surprised that there aren't more problems than there are, and with SDV coming down the line... It's no excuse, but I'd certainly hate to be part of TiVo's R&D department and have to deal with the plethora of what-ifs. "Oh by the way, these guys in Lizardlick Idaho have changed their equipment to this or that now...we'll need to update our software again." 

It doesn't seem as if there will ever be total stability in the broadcast market so I don't expect that TiVo will ever be able to fully address all of the differences immediately, but I don't think they've thrown up their hands and walked away from making every effort to do so.


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## DingoAce10

Hi All,
Sorry for my ignorance...But what does this pixelation problem look like? Is it the whole picture?
I see pixelation in the backgrounds/dark areas of some of my recorded shows...Is that what you are talking about? If so, would love to try the fix.
If not...is the pixelation problem when the pic freezes and looses the signal sometimes?

Just wondering exactly what the pixelation problem is.

BTW: I have Series 3 with Verizon FIOS and 2 CCs.
Thanks!


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## richsadams

The problem goes by various names, tiling, pixelization, macroblocking, etc. It pretty much looks like this:










The problem can be momentary and is not unusual in normal digital broadcasts once in a while (weather related, etc.). But in most cases reported here it is more frequent, it can be much worse and can ruin the PQ completely. It can be accompanied by loss of picture and/or audio if it's severe enough.

Some folks here have resolved the problem by attenuation of the FIOS signal when it is too strong.


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## bossmancometh

A quick shout-out to WESTTOWN73. The advice to replace the cable running from the Comcast splitter outside my house to the back of my TIVO eliminated all my pixelation problems. Instead of giving me a new cable, HD installer had split the signal from my Comcast internet service, cut a 10-year-old DirecTV cable and affixed his own to it. For $22 at Best Buy, problem has been gone for a couple weeks now. And life is good again.


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## DingoAce10

thanks rich! I see that a couple of times on my WB station, but usually only happends once per show (and I only watch SuperNatural on that station)...so if this problem is a constant problem on a channel I don't think I have that.
I do have the "tiling" problem on my local sports Network (NESN) but I figured it was just the broadcast.
Would it hurt my PQ if I did this fix for Verizon and didn't need it?
Thanks!


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## ciucca

Rich,

In response to your post concerning the signal differences between service providers.

I would be more optimistic if the following was NOT true:

The Motorola boxes basically work with any signal, including Verizon FIOS, without any hardware or software tweaks out of the box. To not start an argument concerning features I am only talking about being able to take a QAM signal on any frequency and channel anywhere in the country and present a pixel free picture to the TV. 

I'm sure there is a QAM transmission and reception standard, I don't know what it is, but I can deduce that TIVO cannot handle the entire spectrum +/- dbs and signal quality. If the FIOS and others SP signal fall within that spec then TIVO needs to be able to handle it. 

As i said before if they knew how to fix the problem in software it would have been done already.


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## richsadams

ciucca said:


> Rich,
> 
> In response to your post concerning the signal differences between service providers.
> 
> I would be more optimistic if the following was NOT true:
> 
> The Motorola boxes basically work with any signal, including Verizon FIOS, without any hardware or software tweaks out of the box. To not start an argument concerning features I am only talking about being able to take a QAM signal on any frequency and channel anywhere in the country and present a pixel free picture to the TV.
> 
> I'm sure there is a QAM transmission and reception standard, I don't know what it is, but I can deduce that TIVO cannot handle the entire spectrum +/- dbs and signal quality. If the FIOS and others SP signal fall within that spec then TIVO needs to be able to handle it.
> 
> As i said before if they knew how to fix the problem in software it would have been done already.


Agreed about the boxes...as long as the comparison is apples to apples...moto boxes w/cable cards and not the ones without CC's/proprietary processors (6014, etc.).

We've seen a number of improvements and "bug fixes" over the past year, meaning that they were software, not hardware upgrades. So again, I have to believe they are still working on it. Plus there are a number of posts like DingoAce10's on the forum indicating that it was a local issue causing the problems and nothing to do with TiVo. Narrowing things down can be quite a challenge sometimes, but saying that it's always a TiVo problem and that TiVo has given up some how just isn't realistic.


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## richsadams

DingoAce10 said:


> thanks rich! I see that a couple of times on my WB station, but usually only happends once per show (and I only watch SuperNatural on that station)...so if this problem is a constant problem on a channel I don't think I have that.
> I do have the "tiling" problem on my local sports Network (NESN) but I figured it was just the broadcast.
> Would it hurt my PQ if I did this fix for Verizon and didn't need it?
> Thanks!


PQ could be impacted by attenuation...some channels improving and others being degraded, but the only way to find out is to try it. A number of folks have found the sweet spot; reporting that all channels are good now...others haven't been so fortunate.

Let us know what you decide to do. :up:


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## jefny

Another update. A week ago my problems of pixilation (and signal loss) seemed to be fixed with 16 db of attenuators but on Monday this week everything came back on channels 38 and 43-pixilation and loss of signal several times a minute. 

I called Cablevision to refresh the cards and pixilation/loss of signal on the same channels is now once every couple of minutes. Cablevision was willing to send a tech but with the understanding if it was the TIVO box they would charge me for the visit even if there was no solution.

A call to TIVO support was not very helpful (try more attenuators). They stated that there are known problems between TIVO HD and NDS cards that is currently being worked on with no timetable as of yet.

TIVO was willing to change boxes but this requires a visit from Cablevision to install new cards for a $50 fee with no guarantee of improvement.

For the time being I just have to live with pixilation on AMC, USA and to a lesser extent TNT. All the high def channels seem untouched as well as most other channels. 

John


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## hmm52

richsadams said:


> Okay...*hmm52*...welcome to the forum...I think. You are certainly in the running for the longest post on the forum this year, and perhaps for previous years, but I'm not taking the time to check. I'm sure your post was filled with valuable knowledge, but I got lost somewhere near half way and skimmed the rest.
> 
> I did pick up on a couple of things. If your Series3 has rebooted repeatedly and you've seen the GSOD more than a few times, your hard drive is most likely failing. That is not normal behavior and you should contact TiVo for a replacement. If you're experiencing tiling/macroblocking you can try following the advice about attenuating your FIOS signal.
> 
> We have had our Series3 w/Comcast/Motorola "S" cable cards for over a year and (with brief exceptions which are to be expected) do not experience the tiling issue. We've had our TiVo HD w/Comcast/Motorola "M" cable card for a few months and have not had any problems either. We've never had to return any TiVo's over the years. That's not to say there aren't problems now and then, but most of the people that find their way to this forum have problems...the other four plus million that have TiVo subscriptions are apparently doing okay.
> 
> With regard to bugs and software updates, this post by a TiVo employee that frequents the forum has more info.
> 
> If you'd like an answer to a specific question, it's best to make it simple and short otherwise you're likely to be ignored.
> 
> Good luck...I think.


Thanks for the qualified welcome and the link. I agree that my post was as bloated as the worst of the RS values I've seen with the Series3. My questions were few, mostly what to expect from TiVo Inc. as I'm new to them. The reason for posting was more to provide a reference for those TiVoHD & TiVoS3 users who are experiencing pixelation but don't have a closely comparable product for comparison. Cablecard devices became quite rare after '05 until TiVo introduced the S3 late in '06.

It's good to hear that the majority of HD & S3 owners are not having this problem. That should be encouraging to those of us in the minority receiving imperfect signals from our CATV providers, especially Verizon once their rate of expansion cools off.

Because the bloat of my post probably caused it to be more passed over than read, I'll summarize the salient points.

I've been with FiOS TV for 15 months. Signal quality became erratic 7 months ago. Since then it has varied month by month; hour by hour within the bad periods. I see little possibility for lasting improvement until they get around to replacing the ONT in my house and the equipment at the central office serving my area. It may well be that the S3 wouldn't have exhibited any pixelation if I was using it in the 1st 8 mo.s with FiOS. In its 4 weeks of use, it has pixelated on Tuner 1 for the first two and on Tuner 0 since observed after adding second cablecard. A bedroom TV, Toshiba, also pixelated to a lesser extent in the 1st 10 days of the period.

I've never seen a greater propensity for pixelation than with the S3. My other QAM cablecard devices in routine use since purchase - Sony SXRD TV, 27 months; 2 Sony HDD250 DVRs, 28 mo.s; Toshiba LCD TV, 15 mo.s. In the ability to cope with an errant signal then display a stable clean picture, I rank them as follows (0-10):

Sony TV & DVR 9
Toshiba TV 3
S3 Tuner 1 1
S3 Tuner 0 0.5

The tuning weakness of the S3 isn't limited to high signal level. A moderate amount of attenuation (11db) cleaned up the local HDs but played havoc with some other channels on different frequencies.

The diagnostics screen most reveals how well tuning is being done, not the quality of the feed itself. - vast difference between Tuners 1 & 0 on problem channels.

The tuning difficulties seem to be taking place ahead of the cablecard decryption process. - with card removed, diagnostic values behave exactly as they did before removal.

My general point is that the S3 tuner falls well short of other brand's which have been on the market for some time. I think it's reasonable to expect better even if CATV providers aren't doing such a great job with their signals.

In the current week my S3 has had no issues whatsoever on Tuner 1. Tuner 0 continues to have no tune or pixelation on channels at 6 different frequencies (639, 645, 711, 729, 771, & 777mghz). I would like to hear how many of you have been satisfied with a TiVo exchange unit under similar circumstances.

Still too verbose?


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## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Still too verbose?


Much better...and good, clear info. :up: I think everyone here would agree with the summation that the Series3 is very picky about the signal it can and will process. It's better now than it was a few months ago, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. A lot has to do with the cable card issue IMO which is still being ironed out. I'd expect continued improvement with the next upgrade which is due any day now.

Thanks for the info and I'll let others chime in with their experiences.


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## hmm52

ciucca said:


> Rich,
> 
> In response to your post concerning the signal differences between service providers.
> 
> I would be more optimistic if the following was NOT true:
> 
> The Motorola boxes basically work with any signal, including Verizon FIOS, without any hardware or software tweaks out of the box. To not start an argument concerning features I am only talking about being able to take a QAM signal on any frequency and channel anywhere in the country and present a pixel free picture to the TV.
> 
> I'm sure there is a QAM transmission and reception standard, I don't know what it is, but I can deduce that TIVO cannot handle the entire spectrum +/- dbs and signal quality. If the FIOS and others SP signal fall within that spec then TIVO needs to be able to handle it.
> 
> As i said before if they knew how to fix the problem in software it would have been done already.


Though I generally agree with you, I don't automatically assume that Verizon's signal is always within spec. Since November they have been skirting the law in the Philadelphia area by providing a non-conforming unencrypted signal for local digital broadcasts. They are not a member of ATSC. Comcast is. Only certain brands of tuners can tune their current unencrypted digital signal. An old LG receiver I have will. My Sony tuners won't. Never a problem with Comcast. The LCD TVs they recently gave away to new subscribers can't manage the signal either. Despite ferocious protests, VZ's response has been that they are "aware of the problem and are working on a solution."


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## ccoulson

Rich-

You seem to have a tremendous amount of knowledge on the various causes of stuttering / sluggish / rebooting S3's. Could I suggest that you come up with a step by step decision tree for diagnosing and possibly resolving these issues? I know you cannot test for every permutation of cableco's, cable cards, eSATA drive mfg's, HDMI cable mfg's, etc.... But, I still think a centralized and standardized diagnosis procedure would be helpful to many users - and maybe even Tivo themselves!


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## richsadams

ccoulson said:


> Rich-
> 
> You seem to have a tremendous amount of knowledge on the various causes of stuttering / sluggish / rebooting S3's. Could I suggest that you come up with a step by step decision tree for diagnosing and possibly resolving these issues? I know you cannot test for every permutation of cableco's, cable cards, eSATA drive mfg's, HDMI cable mfg's, etc.... But, I still think a centralized and standardized diagnosis procedure would be helpful to many users - and maybe even Tivo themselves!


Thanks for the vote of confidence...much appreciated. I'm no expert by any means. I know some of my advice from days gone by was flat out wrong...as is some we all see now and then. Some of my knowledge is first-hand, but a majority of it has come from reading the wise (and sometimes not-so-wise) suggestions others have posted over the years. This forum is generally a great place for good people that are experiencing trouble to reach out and find some decent help from others.

I agree that having some sort of trouble shooting sticky would be ideal. A lot of the solutions to problems people run into have already been posted (repeatedly sometimes) but I'm not sure I'm the one to gather all of the info and put it in one place. Plus there are so many permutations and variables that I'm not sure it's possible to be right under every circumstance.

That said there are plenty of others here (and you know who you are ) that could do just as well or better than I in the troubleshooting department. Perhaps we should collaborate on something? I'm up for it. Anyone?


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## Roderigo

ciucca said:


> The Motorola boxes basically work with any signal, including Verizon FIOS, without any hardware or software tweaks out of the box. To not start an argument concerning features I am only talking about being able to take a QAM signal on any frequency and channel anywhere in the country and present a pixel free picture to the TV.


I disagree with this statement. I would phrase it like: Cable companies tweak their signal until they work with Motorola boxes, regardless of the official specifications cablecard hosts are required to support. They use the excuse "Hey - our box is working, we must be giving you a good signal" without using all of the appropriate test equipment to prove that fact. If they put out a signal that the majority of their customers are unhappy with, they're going to fix it pretty darn quickly. But, if they put out a signal that only a few customers are unhappy with, and those customers are using 3rd party equipment, they're *MUCH* more likely to blame the 3rd party equipment, without doing their due diligence (especially when they can try to upsell you to their DVR - there's just so little motivation for them to do their job right).



ciucca said:


> I'm sure there is a QAM transmission and reception standard, I don't know what it is, but I can deduce that TIVO cannot handle the entire spectrum +/- dbs and signal quality. If the FIOS and others SP signal fall within that spec then TIVO needs to be able to handle it.


There is a standard, and all cablecard hosts are tested by cablelabs to that standard. The tests aren't just testing a "perfect" signal, but also explicitly throw in a bunch of errors that the host must be able to deal with.


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## richsadams

Roderigo said:


> Cable companies tweak their signal until they work with Motorola boxes, regardless of the official specifications cablecard hosts are required to support. They use the excuse "Hey - our box is working, we must be giving you a good signal" without using all of the appropriate test equipment to prove that fact. If they put out a signal that the majority of their customers are unhappy with, they're going to fix it pretty darn quickly. But, if they put out a signal that only a few customers are unhappy with, and those customers are using 3rd party equipment, they're *MUCH* more likely to blame the 3rd party equipment, without doing their due diligence (especially when they can try to upsell you to their DVR - there's just so little motivation for them to do their job right).


Exactly. :up:

Plus a lot of the STB/DVR's out there simply use proprietary processors built to the cableco's specs...no cable cards...apples/oranges when it comes to TiVo comparisons. Again, "Hey _our _box works...must be your TiVo."


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## ciucca

You guys can speculate all you want. What proof do you have that Motorola boxes are tweaked for a particular cable co signal? I know a few people in the industry that will dispute that statement. The proof to me is in the specifications, you either meet the spec or you do not, due to misunderstanding requirements bugs etc. Tivo does not, regardless what we would like to believe.


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## richsadams

ciucca said:


> What proof do you have that Motorola boxes are tweaked for a particular cable co signal?


 Likely the same "proof" that anyone here may have that they aren't. If I'm a cableco ordering thousands of boxes at a time I'd wager they aren't off the shelf, but specifically built to my specs; specs which would apply to my current system of delivery. Roderigo's speculation was that cableco's tweak their signal, not their DVR's which seems just as reasonable.



ciucca said:


> The proof to me is in the specifications, you either meet the spec or you do not, due to misunderstanding requirements bugs etc. Tivo does not, regardless what we would like to believe.


Is there some "proof" for such a blanket statement or is that speculation based on various posts from people having problems here?

FWIW I could easily say that _all _cableco boxes don't meet the given standards. We went through four Comcast Motorola HD DVR's in a three month period before we bought our Series3. All four of the moto boxes failed or had problems including issues exactly like the ones described on threads here. Our Series3 has had zero problems. Others can tell you that they've had zero problems with their cableco box.

I agree there are issues for some folks, don't get me wrong. The bottom line is that most cableco boxes work with local systems as do most TiVo's. Why some don't is all speculation on everyone's part unless someone has "proof" otherwise.

The wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth and running around knees bent whining about how awful TiVo is isn't helpful. Speculating about what might be causing the issues and offering some advice to help others who are having problems is one way of dealing with things. You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.


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## ciucca

richsadams said:


> The wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth and running around knees bent whining about how awful TiVo is isn't helpful. Speculating about what might be causing the issues and offering some advice to help others who are having problems is one way of dealing with things. You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.


If you choose to call my posts whining then so be it. I guess if I plunk down $300 of my hard earned I should expect it to work as advertised. Tivo will only replace a box if you have gone through multiple cable cards, and blaming the cable co before they offer a replacement. In fact FIOS has replaced all my cabling and replaced the ONT to no avail. They have gone above and beyond to try to make my Tivo not pixelate.

I would like to address a few things, first I am not speculating. I don't wish to go into my resume just for posting to this board. You can choose to agree with what I say or you can dispute it, as you do. I am no technical illiterate spewing theories that do not make any sense. I find the majority of people here will defend TIVO in the face of any evidence. I also know for a fact that verizon boxes are not tuned to their signals. I will admit the head end is Motorola as are the receivers and cable cards, but they are also designed by different product teams within motorola, and are designed to specification and tested to see if they meet it.

TIVO being a third party vendor has the burden to meet the QAM specifications and design a product that works throughout the signal range. If enough customers complain they need to reproduce the signal levels in their development labs and find out what the problem is. I'm sure you will say they have done this, and they are "working on the problem". How come they do not publish what the problem is? My god they should have figured it out by now. This is the classic sign of TIVO knowing the problem is theirs and not admitting it.

I talked to enough DSP engineers here where I work to form my speculations ; that the problem is with the low cost, low grade marginal quality parts they purchased to save production costs, and they cannot make it behave by tweaking the software.

Finally I hope I am proven wrong and the next software update fixes the pixelation issue for everyone, but I am skeptical. I also make no apologize for my previous posts. I think before a potential buyer plunks down $300 and a monthly service charge they should be able to read all opinions from one end to the other and make their own decisions.

I'm surprised you even respond to my posts since you are right and I must be wrong.


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## fergie8

ciucca said:


> If you choose to call my posts whining then so be it. I guess if I plunk down $300 of my hard earned I should expect it to work as advertised. Tivo will only replace a box if you have gone through multiple cable cards, and blaming the cable co before they offer a replacement. ...


Not true.

TiVo replaced my TiVo HD (which had severe pixelization problems from a bad tuner) without first requiring me to go through any cable card replacements with my cable company. I don't recall that they blamed the cable company at all in any way. The cable company only came into play again after I had received the replacement TiVo HD and only then because I had to pair up my cable card again with the new replacement TiVo HD.

This is not to say that I think TiVo's tech support did a quality job of helping me with the problems I had with my TiVo HD, because I think their tech support was pretty crap overall. So I don't really mind reading a good rant about TiVo's poor customer service. It's just that I think that a good rant needs a fair amount of accuracy to have much effect.

Good luck with your problems though.

Cheers,

-- 
Fergie


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## richsadams

ciucca said:


> I'm surprised you even respond to my posts since you are right and I must be wrong.


I read and value your posts along with everyone elses. I never said I was right nor have I said that you're wrong and we really have no argument, we just disagree. You tend to believe things wont get better, I think that they will.

Historical data proves that TiVo, Inc. does work on issues and that they do resolve them. That they arent doing it transparently or as quickly as wed often like doesnt mean that its not being done. However Im not naive enough to imagine that the next software upgrade will fix everything for everyone any more than the last one did. The fact that the last upgrade corrected problems for a great many folks portends well though.

Complaining really doesn't get anyone anything except maybe some sympathy; misery loves company and all of that. You have every right to alert others to what you see as an inferior or inoperable product. Other folks have the right to make their case that things can and will work while trying to help without being bombarded by the "it'll never work and heres why..." mantra.

Your TiVo set you back $300, I get that, and yes I agree it should work flawlessly but it doesn't. Ours do, tens of thousands, heck millions of others do, yours doesn't. Its just not this wide-spread massive problem it apparently seems to you. I can understand that it's very frustrating for anyone that's experiencing problems. A lot of us have helped others and I don't recall what all you've tried to fix the problem you're seeing, but unfortunately it appears that we haven't been able to help you and that's too bad...wish things were different.

No one is here to prove you wrong, really. Having an open mind and some patience is helpful IMHO. The fact is that a majority of TiVos work brilliantly and I honestly hope that yours will too...sooner than later. :up:

Okay, nuff said.


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## Roderigo

ciucca said:


> I also know for a fact that verizon boxes are not tuned to their signals.


I didn't say that the boxes were tuned to their signals. I said the signals are going to be good enough to work with their boxes, but not necessarily withing the specifications required by the cablecard spec.

All hardware has some variation, and handles poor signals differently. If a cable company puts out a poor signal that doesn't work with their own boxes, they're going to be relatively quick to notice the problem via customer complaints, and fix it (since they're responsible for both the signal, and the box used to receive it there's no question as to who's at fault). But, if they put out signal that's out of spec and their boxes can handle it, it's very hard to get them to actually analyze what's going, and possibly detect their own shortcomings.



ciucca said:


> TIVO being a third party vendor has the burden to meet the QAM specifications and design a product that works throughout the signal range.


They do have that burden. But, those specifications are defined and tested by the cable industry via Cablelabs, which has to approve any device that uses cablecards. The specifications even include adding explicit errors to a good signal to make sure the cablecard device can handle it. But, the cable companies have the same burden to meet the QAM specifications, and transmit signals throughout the signal range that are within that specification.



ciucca said:


> In fact FIOS has replaced all my cabling and replaced the ONT to no avail. They have gone above and beyond to try to make my Tivo not pixelate.


That says what Verizon has done to try to solve the problem, and I commend them for that. Many a cable company wouldn't even go to that length. And, this exactly falls into what i would categorize "tweaking" the signal. They're trying things that have worked in the past to solve this same symptom with other customers (most likely, ones w/ motorola boxes), and hoping that will solve your problem. If it does work, maybe it's a quicker/easier solution to get the customer back up and running. They can certainly give this list of actions to a less trained technician, and much of the time that's all they need to do. However, now that it hasn't worked, have they pulled out all the test equipment they would need to make sure their signal's within spec?

All that said, the problem still could be a tivo problem, but until someone figures out what's going wrong, it's just as likely to be a cable company problem than it is a tivo problem.


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## pmininni

Just thought I would add my experience here...
TiVo HD
Motorola CC - 2x Single Stream
Fios - Northern NJ

I had tiling on the local HD channels about 1 week after installation. Mostly on channel 805 (517MHz or somewhere around there). And for the most part, it was tuner 0. I usually was able to reproduce the problem when both tuners were on a local HD channel that was around the same frequency. RSun would go sky rocketing (10,000s). Usually the signal strength was 100 for all channels with a S/N of 37/38. Though this would drop when the tiling was experienced. Most of the the time all RS stats would be 0. It would only happen on occasion as well. If I rebooted the TiVo unit, it would disappear for a few days. Of course it would come back once I thought it disappeared. When it did happen, the show was unwatchable. It recorded this and played it back as well.

Ordered the attenuators and terminators on the recommendation of this thread and I thought the problem pretty much disappeared. I used a single 10db attenuator to lower the singal strength 68-75 (bounces back and forth) and a S/N of 32/33. However, after a week, the unit froze the picture on one tuner. Change the channel and it would freeze the picture as well. Record the show, same thing. But I could scroll through it. Only a reboot solved this. After this happened twice in a week, I was getting a replacement from TiVo. Tiling did occur twice after attenuating but ONLY when both tuners were on the same channel. BTW, the terminators alone did not make a difference.

Installed replacement unit today with a single 10db attenuator. So far so good. (fingers crossed).

Just as a note. I am wondering if I started seeing the tiling after the upgrade to 9.2a software.
Currently the replacement unit is at 8.1.7c2. I hope it isn't the software update. 

-Paul


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## ciucca

richsadams said:


> Complaining really doesn't get anyone anything except maybe some sympathy; misery loves company and all of that. You have every right to alert others to what you see as an inferior or inoperable product. Other folks have the right to make their case that things can and will work while trying to help without being bombarded by the "it'll never work and heres why..." mantra.
> 
> Your TiVo set you back $300, I get that, and yes I agree it should work flawlessly but it doesn't. Ours do, tens of thousands, heck millions of others do, yours doesn't. Its just not this wide-spread massive problem it apparently seems to you. I can understand that it's very frustrating for anyone that's experiencing problems. A lot of us have helped others and I don't recall what all you've tried to fix the problem you're seeing, but unfortunately it appears that we haven't been able to help you and that's too bad...wish things were different.
> 
> Okay, nuff said.


I beg to differ, if enough people complain and not accept a shoddy product things can get done. One prime example is the xbox360 3ROD. After complaining by a lot of pissed off gamers Microsoft finally admitted their product was defective (bad motherboard hardware) and ponied up the money to fix the hardware and replace everyones xbox experiencing the issue, including extending the warranty to 3 years from 90 days.

I don't see why TIVO does not do the same. Until they stop pretending the problem is not theirs I will continue to "complain".

One last thing, so far you are in the minority of people I know that have not experienced pixelation in on form or the other. I know 12 people in NNJ both Comcast and FIOS customers who had to purchase the attenuators. I think at a minimum TIVO should include them in the S3 and TIVOHD box.

I don't get the attitude that I should be happy to own a TIVO and wait for the great TIVO company to decide I suffered enough and fix the problem. Would you accept the same quality from a new car purchase? I bet i know the answer.


----------



## ciucca

Roderigo said:


> All that said, the problem still could be a tivo problem, but until someone figures out what's going wrong, it's just as likely to be a cable company problem than it is a tivo problem.


If I was the average consumer, with no technical understanding of DSP;
the main reason why I believe it is a TIVO problem is this. FIOS will come to your house change everything you ask free of charge even though it's for 3rd party vendor equipment. They will show you the signal quality with error counts if you ask on virtually any channel. TIVO is secretive and repeats the mantra, "It's a signal problem" or it "defective cable cards" they show no physical proof. Who should I believe?


----------



## richsadams

ciucca said:


> I beg to differ, if enough people complain and not accept a shoddy product things can get done.


Okay, let me clarify...complaining here may make you feel better, but it will do nothing to help your situation particularly if you're not willing to give some of the suggested resolutions a try. This thread is not run by TiVo and although a few TiVo employees frequent it now and then they are not part of the engineering department. Take your complaints to TiVo if you want to make a difference.



ciucca said:


> One last thing, so far you are in the minority of people I know that have not experienced pixelation in on form or the other. I know 12 people in NNJ both Comcast and FIOS customers who had to purchase the attenuators. I think at a minimum TIVO should include them in the S3 and TIVOHD box.


You personally know 12 people locally that have the exact same problem as you? Okay, what does it tell you that there are tens of thousands of TiVo's operating w/o any problems then? Local issue or TiVo or Both? Hmmmm.



ciucca said:


> I don't get the attitude that I should be happy to own a TIVO and wait for the great TIVO company to decide I suffered enough and fix the problem. Would you accept the same quality from a new car purchase? I bet i know the answer.


No one told you "don't worry, be happy". Patience and happiness are two different things but often one may lead to the other. If you have no more patience and you're not happy and you're not willing to replace your TiVo or talk to TiVo anymore...what's your solution? Complain some more? How does that help? I'd take it back, get a Verizon DVR and be done with it.


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## naybag

ciucca said:


> I think at a minimum TIVO should include them in the S3 and TIVOHD box.


GOOD IDEA!

My severe pixelation problem began after 4 solid months of Tivo w/ Fios. Fios came out and tested everything, and still experienced pixelation. I called Tivo, they acted like they have never heard of this particular problem before, and that I must have the ONLY tivo around with this quirk. They never mentioned "attenuation", but they offered to replace my 4 month old, out of warranty Tivo HD for $50.

Instead, I purchased the attenuators from SmartHome for $17.00 after S&H, and the problem has been alleviated... for now.

One of Tivo's huge selling points has always been how easy it is to use. Now, if everyday people have to do their own research and find "possible" solutions on obscure message boards, then ease of use is no longer true.

Add to that the need to try to make sense out of SNR's, dB's, uncorrected errors, attenutation, and technical jargon. The Tivo HD is no longer a product that can be marketed to everyday people.

Oh! And yes, add me to the list of the whiny! I am still mad that my pixelation problem made the super bowl unwatchable this year. And I credit the "whiners" on this board for posting the solution, no thanks to Tivo.


----------



## shamu20

pmininni said:


> Just thought I would add my experience here...
> TiVo HD
> Motorola CC - 2x Single Stream
> Fios - Northern NJ
> 
> I had tiling on the local HD channels about 1 week after installation. Mostly on channel 805 (517MHz or somewhere around there). And for the most part, it was tuner 0. I usually was able to reproduce the problem when both tuners were on a local HD channel that was around the same frequency. RSun would go sky rocketing (10,000s). Usually the signal strength was 100 for all channels with a S/N of 37/38. Though this would drop when the tiling was experienced. Most of the the time all RS stats would be 0. It would only happen on occasion as well. If I rebooted the TiVo unit, it would disappear for a few days. Of course it would come back once I thought it disappeared. When it did happen, the show was unwatchable. It recorded this and played it back as well.
> 
> Ordered the attenuators and terminators on the recommendation of this thread and I thought the problem pretty much disappeared. I used a single 10db attenuator to lower the singal strength 68-75 (bounces back and forth) and a S/N of 32/33. However, after a week, the unit froze the picture on one tuner. Change the channel and it would freeze the picture as well. Record the show, same thing. But I could scroll through it. Only a reboot solved this. After this happened twice in a week, I was getting a replacement from TiVo. Tiling did occur twice after attenuating but ONLY when both tuners were on the same channel. BTW, the terminators alone did not make a difference.
> 
> Installed replacement unit today with a single 10db attenuator. So far so good. (fingers crossed).
> 
> Just as a note. I am wondering if I started seeing the tiling after the upgrade to 9.2a software.
> Currently the replacement unit is at 8.1.7c2. I hope it isn't the software update.
> 
> -Paul


Alright. I've had quite a ride with Tivo over the last 5 months and wanted to post what's been going on.

First my setup.
TivoHD running 9.2a
FIOS - North Jersey
2 Moto S-Cards

Now to the story...
My first Tivo I bought at the end of September and had FIOS out around the same time to install my cable cards. This whole process was a pain in the butt and I seemed to know more about cable cards than the tech did, even though I had never used them before. After about 4.5 hours we got them installed and we were up and running. HD looked great. SD looked great. At this time this was the best setup I could ever imagine.

About a week later I started getting pixelation on all my digital channels. MTV, Discovery, Nat Geo... They were all unwatchable. I had talked with Tivo who assured me that it would be fixed with a upcoming software update that should be out in a week. I took it for what it was worth and waited for the update. It came a few days later, but instantly I didn't see resolution. I called Tivo back and they were convinced that it was a FIOS problem.

At this point I put strong pressure on FIOS to solve it. They came out several times and had replaced the cards, ONT, cleaned the fiber, and even replaced some coax as a last ditch attempt. After about 3 weeks of this going on nothing had changed. Then right at the beginning of November (after doing NOTHING) the pixelation went away... completely! Nothing bad on either HD or SD. I thought it was fixed, until about a week before x-mas.

A week before x-mas the problem returned and it wasn't on my digital channels, but on all my local (FOX, ABC, NBC) HD channels. At this point I decided to wait it out through the holidays and get back to finding a solution in the new year. In the meantime I had purchased some attenuators to try and tone down the signal. Well this didn't work either (but helped) and by the second week of January I was back on the phone with Tivo and FIOS to get a solution.

Tivo finally admitted it might be a faulty box so they sent out a new one (after arguing-- at no cost) and at first I thought this had fixed it. Very little pixelation for a week and then the worst happened for box number 2... Everything would grey out and I'd have to reboot. After 4 times of this happening in 4 days I was back on the phone with Tivo to get a replacement... again.

This time the replacement (box 3) came and instantly I had pixelation like I had on the first one. I had FIOS come out and replace everything again and lower the signal and it seemed to take care of about 99% of the pixelation. I have my setup attenuated so low I can't believe I have a clear picture. About 55-60% signal strength and a SNR or about 30-32. Seems to be working though. Then after about a week of having a perfect setup I got the picture freeze. The unit still seems to record fine, but I cannot watch anything... Not live TV, not recordings, not anything transferred from my PC... Nothing; until I reboot. Rebooting takes care of it, but then I have the problem about a week later.

I've phoned Tivo about this because I KNOW IT'S THE HW and they want me to monitor it. They want me to do off the wall things when it freezes like take out the cable cards or unplug the Ethernet cable... I don't think this will do anything, but I feel I have been very patient with this and want a solution. I shouldn't have different problems with every Tivo box I have... The first one should have worked right out of the box. And then when I got rid of the pixelation I shouldn't be having to reboot the Tivo weekly!! At this point I'm going to monitor it, but the moment anything goes bad with this one I'm going to get another replacement... But hopefully not a TivoHD. It's caused nothing but problems. When it works it's outstanding, but it's so frustrating when it doesn't. And that seems to be more often than not...

Anyways I thought I'd post my story. Does anyone have suggestions? Do the S3 boxes suffer less problems than the TivoHD boxes? I'm thinking of trying an S3 box before I find another DVR solution. I am 100% a Tivo fan, but this is nuts. The TivoHD is obviously very poorly engineered.

D


----------



## richsadams

naybag said:


> GOOD IDEA!
> 
> My severe pixelation problem began after 4 solid months of Tivo w/ Fios. Fios came out and tested everything, and still experienced pixelation. I called Tivo, they acted like they have never heard of this particular problem before, and that I must have the ONLY tivo around with this quirk. They never mentioned "attenuation", but they offered to replace my 4 month old, out of warranty Tivo HD for $50.
> 
> Instead, I purchased the attenuators from SmartHome for $17.00 after S&H, and the problem has been alleviated... for now.
> 
> One of Tivo's huge selling points has always been how easy it is to use. Now, if everyday people have to do their own research and find "possible" solutions on obscure message boards, then ease of use is no longer true.
> 
> Add to that the need to try to make sense out of SNR's, dB's, uncorrected errors, attenutation, and technical jargon. The Tivo HD is no longer a product that can be marketed to everyday people.
> 
> Oh! And yes, add me to the list of the whiny! I am still mad that my pixelation problem made the super bowl unwatchable this year. And I credit the "whiners" on this board for posting the solution, no thanks to Tivo.


Couldn't agree more on all of your points. :up: Except the last one that is. You can credit those that took the time to figure things out for themselves and then passed that knowledge along to help others for your successful outcome...not anyone simply whining about it. 

Glad to hear things are working well now...but you're absolutely right, no one should have to jump through hoops to get TiVo to work.


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## rcr2

Back in October, I had all sorts of problems with the TiVo not responding to the remote, pixellation, rebooting, and freezing. The Series 3 was about 6 months old by then.

TiVo sent a new unit out, and everything started to work well again. Also about that time, they issued the SA Card fix update, which cleared up lingering issues.

Just in the past week, I have suddenly started having HD channel problems - pixellation/jumpiness, and the TiVo won't respond to remote commands, so that I need to unplug the unit to force a reboot.

All other channels and functions seem to be working ok.

So - does anyone know if TiVo updated software recently, or perhaps Comcast in Monmouth country (Middletown), New Jersey has suddenly changed something on their end?


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## hmm52

rcr2 said:


> Back in October, I had all sorts of problems with the TiVo not responding to the remote, pixellation, rebooting, and freezing. The Series 3 was about 6 months old by then.
> 
> TiVo sent a new unit out, and everything started to work well again. Also about that time, they issued the SA Card fix update, which cleared up lingering issues.
> 
> Just in the past week, I have suddenly started having HD channel problems - pixellation/jumpiness, and the TiVo won't respond to remote commands, so that I need to unplug the unit to force a reboot.
> 
> All other channels and functions seem to be working ok.
> 
> So - does anyone know if TiVo updated software recently, or perhaps Comcast in Monmouth country (Middletown), New Jersey has suddenly changed something on their end?


Twice in the past five days, my S3 has locked up. Turn Tv on; TiVo seems to be in pause; switch tuners - to black screen. First time it restarted itself. Second time with my input. I think it's preferable to do a soft reset (menu - Restart) rather than a hard one (pull the plug), if it works. For the time being, I'm putting the S3 in standby when not viewed. Don't know if it proves anything to do so outside of 0.5 watt less power consumption (34 vs 34.5).

I'm pretty ignorant of things TiVo but The Sony DVRs I've had for quite awhile react similarly after bad Gemstar updates. Some months ago an update caused them to block any commands while recording - no replay; no watching previous recording etc. The only option was to wait until the wizards behind the curtain got it right. It took them 3 weeks that time to fully straighten out the Sonys' function; the longest I can recall. I'm aware of the two main software versions for the S3 and HD. I'm curious, but don't know, if TiVo routinely does small updates that are passed along with the guide data. Anybody know that?

My S3 had pixelation on tuner 1 this weekend for the first time in weeks, on the local HDs, (FIOS). Brief stretch though as it only went from the last 1/2 hour of SNL to mid-morning Sunday. It's clear to me that the TiVo is hyper sensitive to signal fed to it. How much patience do you have for tech support calls to provider when likely so few people are having the same issues in your area? This Sunday morning 8db attenuation somewhat improved local HDs but also knocked out most of the premium HDs I checked. Switch over to antenna instead........

Though tuner 0 is still struggling with the same secondary SD & HD channels as it has from the beginning, I haven't yet requested an exchange unit. It seems unlikely at this point that TiVo's wizards will make real progress on pixelation in the next two months; but there's doesn't appear to be much reason for exchanging sooner rather than later.


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## rcr2

I've got version 9.2a-01-2-648.

Anyone know if this is a new version (past week or so) update? There are no HD channels that I've tried that are clear - all freeze up the system. All premium, digital, etc channels (standard def) work fine.


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## richsadams

Sorry to hear that you're having some trouble. v9.2a has been out for several months now...nothing new. Sounds like your cable cards may need to be initialized/re-hit. Time to contact your local cableco to start with in any case.


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## rcr2

Rich - I would have thought the re-initialized/re-hit thing would apply, too, but even standard HD (ABC/NBC/etc) channels cause a problem. If it was an authorization thing, then it would be limited to digital and other encrypted channels. I had *that* problem a couple months ago and worked it out with the cable company.

I called TiVo. The first tech I got transferred to (their 2nd tier help desk after you get through the filtering group) didn't hsve much of a clue and was going to send me a new box. I complained about the $50 charge and then he said they'd do the exchange for free. I still complained about the inconvenience and the fact that I'd have to go through the pain of repairing the cards, etc. I knew people were calling about this problem, and wanted to know if TiVo was tracking it, or had *any* info for me. He either put me on hold or hung up on me after getting tired of hearing me talk.

So I called back because I wanted to make sure I was at least getting a new box. The tech I got this time asked me a couple more questions, said they didn't have the record from the previous guy on there, but that there was a known issue with SA cards again.

HD channels freeze the box, unresponsive remote. Seems to be SA cards and they're working on it. Known issue.

Y'know, I'm much happier knowing that someone acknowledges there is a problem and that it is being worked on. I just wish TiVo would learn to have an 'issues' page on their web site like every other manufacturer worth its salt so we don't have to be so in the dark.


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## hmm52

rcr2 said:


> Rich - I would have thought the re-initialized/re-hit thing would apply, too, but even standard HD (ABC/NBC/etc) channels cause a problem. If it was an authorization thing, then it would be limited to digital and other encrypted channels. I had *that* problem a couple months ago and worked it out with the cable company.
> 
> I called TiVo. The first tech I got transferred to (their 2nd tier help desk after you get through the filtering group) didn't hsve much of a clue and was going to send me a new box. I complained about the $50 charge and then he said they'd do the exchange for free. I still complained about the inconvenience and the fact that I'd have to go through the pain of repairing the cards, etc. I knew people were calling about this problem, and wanted to know if TiVo was tracking it, or had *any* info for me. He either put me on hold or hung up on me after getting tired of hearing me talk.
> 
> So I called back because I wanted to make sure I was at least getting a new box. The tech I got this time asked me a couple more questions, said they didn't have the record from the previous guy on there, but that there was a known issue with SA cards again.
> 
> HD channels freeze the box, unresponsive remote. Seems to be SA cards and they're working on it. Known issue.
> 
> Y'know, I'm much happier knowing that someone acknowledges there is a problem and that it is being worked on. I just wish TiVo would learn to have an 'issues' page on their web site like every other manufacturer worth its salt so we don't have to be so in the dark.


If I was having the peculiar problem that you're having, the first thing I'd do is hook up an antenna and add it in the TiVo setup. I haven't had pixelation or any other issues when viewing terrestial broadcasts via antenna in the 5 weeks with the S3. Most people are within reasonable range of broadcasters. It does sound strange that you lost HDs but not premium SD channels. When I was with Comcast and a cablecard fell asleep, all premiums were lost, but nothing else. Reinitialization with phone call would revive the card & restore premiums.

While any antenna with a UHF loop might work for local digitals, the antennas that have worked best for me are as follows: Indoor - Terk HDTVa (sku 7322587) $38 Amazon, $70 Best Buy. It's the one that looks like a broad leaf fern. Best to put it on window sill usually, facing towards towers if possible. Probably an RF coax extension cable, and 2X male coupler, will be needed to allow this. Any RG6 cable will do as shielding isn't critical for runs under 100 feet with digital only. Orientation of antenna itself is critical inside or out; check for signal strength. Outdoor - a Channel Master 4221 4 way bowtie grid type, $40 Amazon, has served the purpose well for years. It's nice to have something where configuration is totally up to you, and you don't have to worry about flawed updates! It didn't work so well when I tried it in the 3rd floor of my house. It's been fine at ground level in a stand & against a stone wall even though there's a lot of bushes and tall trees in its path. VHF analog signals seem to benefit more from antenna height than do UHF/digital. The only problem channel is the local PBS digital with which everyone north & east of Phila. is having difficulties - until change of its transmission parameters, & channel assignment, next February.

It sounds like you're going ahead with an exchange unit, and referred to the "pain of repairing" the cards. I assume the pain is a tech visit. If interested go back to my first, excessively long, post last week as I've never needed a visit to install cards that have already been set up once by service provider. It's the bracketed paragraph that starts "FYI".

Good luck with your problem. It's an odd one. A long time ago users of the Sony DVRs also had issues with SA cards though I don't remember what they were.


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## richsadams

rcr2 said:


> So I called back because I wanted to make sure I was at least getting a new box. The tech I got this time asked me a couple more questions, said they didn't have the record from the previous guy on there, but that there was a known issue with SA cards again.
> 
> Y'know, I'm much happier knowing that someone acknowledges there is a problem and that it is being worked on. I just wish TiVo would learn to have an 'issues' page on their web site like every other manufacturer worth its salt so we don't have to be so in the dark.


Yes, a TiVo employee (can't remember which one or which thread now) did acknowledge that there are problems with Scientific Atlanta cable cards several months ago. When they first released v9.2 (IIRC) there were major problems w/SA CC's, particularly w/Tivo HD's. They rushed v9.2a out and that resolved a majority of the problems, but almost invariably folks that have some issues have SA cards.

Some are inclined to blame TiVo for everything but when it comes to cable cards it appears that very few people have problems with Motorola cable cards. Plus if you visit the AVS Forum (and as hmm52 mentions) SA cable cards are a continually problematic with all manner of CE installations. Some people have had techs go through a half-dozen SA CC's before they could find one that worked. So I'd be more prone to blame Scientific Atlanta for making an inferior product...and the cableco's that chose to save a few cents and buy them instead of the Motorola CC's. Just my two cents.

I think the good news is...as I read between the lines from some posts by the TiVo employees that participate in the TCF...the next TiVo software upgrade may do an even better job of addressing this issue. Supposedly the next upgrade is due out any minute now.

In any case, hope your issue gets resolved quickly. :up:


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## jefny

For some months I have been having a pixilation problem on certain channels (USA and AMC for example). Cablevision of Long Island has already changed cable cards twice. I have used attenuators and have gotten only temporary relief. For example, last week I added 16 db worth of attenuation and it worked for several days but again last weekend problems returned (loss of signal and pixilation every minute or so on the affected channels).

I decided to put in a brand new cable from Cablevision to replace the one I had running from the wall to my TIVO HD. In the process I realized I had utilized a 75 ohm/300 ohm converter on the coaxial cable to get rid of a hum in my stereo system that was caused by the TV cable system (unplugging the coaxial cable would result in the hum disappearing). I removed the converter and the attenuators and low and behold the pixilation and signal loss disappeared. I will see how long this fix works. Cablevision did put in a new ground setup and the hum is much less (not noticeable if sound is being produced).

I remember showing the converter to the Cablevision tech who said it shoudn't interfere with the signal so I could leave it. 

I would recommend that everyone check all their cables and you might be surprised what you might find that is affecting your picture quality.

John


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## hmm52

Some suggestions I neglected in last post --

Whether you or tech installs cablecards, I recommend that their serial numbers are noted with their placement before installation (ie. which slot/tuner or device) & save notes. Serial # is not displayed on any menu screen. If card should need future hit by phone tech, you'll be able to identify by SN which card needs it. 

Out of curiosity last night, I removed both cards and repeated setup, for cable & antenna, to see what the S3 could pull in from Verizon FIOS. I expected it to get what the Sony DVRs can - cable analog(converted), digital music channels, as well as antenna channels, digital & analog. It got the others but not music channels. The LG receiver can tune all local digitals through Phila. VZ but channel assignments are pretty ugly - 71.143, 72.867, etc. for local HDs, 71.31 etc. for local sub channel SDs. Overall compared to Comcast, I think VZ makes much more of an effort to block you from getting anything you're not specifically paying for. Always something was dribbling through with Comcast, premium channel not ordered or a neighbor's VOD movie (QAM tuner w/o cablecard). I still think a TiVo box would tune all digital Comcast channels, not premium encrypted of course, without card installed. When I left at end of '06, their unencrypted channels were more reasonable than VZ's - 87.1, 108.1 etc. By that time however Comcast Phila. had gone to CCI:0X02 (copy once) for every single channel ("It's not us. It's the content provider." Sure.) At least VZ has kept CCI:0X00 (copy freely) across the board. 0X02 was a royal pain. 

There is good reason to make antenna channels primary rather than backup. Local HD pixelation returned last night at an equal level on the S3 and the Toshiba Tv. My FIOS signal seems to be constantly drifting so far in '08. The S3 switches seamlessly between antenna and cable channels. Not so for the Sony DVRs where a change sounds like an industrial duty solenoid has been actuated to switch inputs. The S3 acts as if it's just another cable channel, quick and silent. Surfing isn't slowed down. Unless you're in a remote area, I see no point in living with the cable feed for locals if the signal is causing pixelation routinely. If you can get even a ghosting picture with rabbit ears for analog, the chances are good to reliably receive OTA digital broadcasts. For something important (Super Bowl, etc.), programming it for antenna channel would be the safer choice.

After the no card experiment, the cablecards were reinserted. Out of force of habit, and something to occupy the time, I did a hunt for network a few times and toggled back and forth to pairing screen until it populated. Each card took a total of 2-3 minutes to pair and deliver picture. With broadband ethernet connection the "guided setup" for antenna & cable took another 29 minutes to complete, not including time to review channel list and favorites. Most favorites were remembered. Some channels & favorites needed to be rechecked - after 2 guided setups back to back. Adding an antenna to the TiVo setup is not a big deal as long as the RF cable can be hidden without power tools.

An antenna is useful for troubleshooting in odd situations such as only HDs not diplaying properly. It takes the cablecard and decryption out of the equation.

I'm really surprised to hear that Comcast is using SA cards in any service area. I guess competition from Verizon and others gave their bean counters more status and they were pitched a truckload of cards at a price they couldn't resist. On the other hand tech support & visits must cost them something. The CEO of Comcast lives 3 miles away. The bean counters are definitely not consulted in the determination of his compensation.


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## ccoulson

> My S3 had pixelation on tuner 1 this weekend for the first time in weeks, on the local HDs, (FIOS).


rcr2-

Are you sure you are having the pixelation problem and not stuttering video? Yes, I know the differences may be subtle. The pixelation problem involves large block of the video feed showing up as squares. The stuttering video is largely the entire video and audio getting jumpy.

The stuttering video is also accompanied with random reboots, sluggish or unresponsive menu activities. I just went through this on S3 (Comcast cable w/ 2 Moto cable cards). This *appears* to be a failing hard drive. In my case, it started manifesting when recording and playing back HD content simultaneously. The problem may not necessary manifest when recording or viewing SD channels. The theory is that the increased load of writing / buffering / reading HD content is too much for the failing drive. A test is to simply disconnect your cable feed from the Tivo and see how performance is and/or to ensure that neither tuner is on an HD channel.

Again, in my case, this first appeared when recording and playing back HD content. Switiching to all SD channels alleviated the problem. I have just swapped out the drive with an upgrade from WeaKnees - so far no problems have shown up and I have made sure the 9.2a update has come through.


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## hmm52

The day after heavily promoting antennas for local HD, I was given a demonstratiion of how 60mph wind gusts can also cause pixelation.

Just coincidence?


irony lost on those spending the morning with a chainsaw...


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## rcr2

ccoulson - yes, perhaps 'stuttering' is a better description.

I have been through a hard drive failure once, and had the unit replaced by TiVo. The unit was severely sluggish, though, and was all but impossible to use. Right now, it seems to be chugging along since I've avoided the HD channels, but is still a bit slow in responsiveness.

Really the only change to the box has been re-validating it with Amazon Unbox. But I can't think of a reason that would cause problems all of a sudden.

I may let it go for a bit and see what happens. If it does start to fail completely, thanks for the suggestion of replacing the hard drive with an upgrade kit. Would make much more sense than trying to get cable cards re-paired after wrangling with TiVo to swap out a new S3. I'd loose all my programming, anyway.

One thing - a TiVo rep called me on Sunday (! of all days) afternoon asking about my problem. He was insistent on the fact that it was a mapping issue with the cable cards specific to the HD channels. I didn't really have the time to talk, or else I would have argued with him a bit about how regular HD channels that would show up without a card pairing were also having problems.

I believe I tuned to an HD channel without the cards inserted and still had problems.

So maybe it is the hard drive after all. Seems kind of sudden, though, which is the only odd thing bugging me.


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## esb1981

All the sudden I am having pixelation on a bunch of channels and the signal strength on those channels is way down. Everything has been fine, and I didn't do anything! Just when everything was FINALLY working perfectly after 3 months of troubleshooting, now this. G*d help me...


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## rcr2

I can't get KS57 to work with my Series 3 on 9.2a.

Holding down the remote pause button through the 3 lights being on, then they go off for a second, the orange light comes on for about 2 seconds, and turns off before I get the "7" entered it's so fast.

then no lights and it continues to power up, going to the 'Almost There' screen.

Any other way to force the 57 diagnostic?


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## richsadams

rcr2 said:


> I can't get KS57 to work with my Series 3 on 9.2a.
> 
> Holding down the remote pause button through the 3 lights being on, then they go off for a second, the orange light comes on for about 2 seconds, and turns off before I get the "7" entered it's so fast.
> 
> then no lights and it continues to power up, going to the 'Almost There' screen.
> 
> Any other way to force the 57 diagnostic?


See my answer to your same question here.


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## rcr2

Thanks, rich.. i posted the question on a very old thread by mistake there. But did see it.

I replaced the batteries in my remote just in case it was a weak signal, as well and it finally went through and ran the KS57. 

But, no love.. still hanging on the HD. Thinking about running KS58, and if that doesn't work, do the attenuators, and as a last resort, try a new hard drive.


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## hmm52

esb1981 said:


> All the sudden I am having pixelation on a bunch of channels and the signal strength on those channels is way down. Everything has been fine, and I didn't do anything! Just when everything was FINALLY working perfectly after 3 months of troubleshooting, now this. G*d help me...


Last night at 10:30pm, I saw the largest number of pixelating channels so far with the S3, including the primary ESPNS SD & HD for the first time, all on tuner 0. This morning at 7:30am it was close to the fewest problem channels seen to date. The chronic ones are clustered on frequencies 711, 729, 771, & 777 MHz; no tune or heavy tiling.

If persistent, call to service provider only option available.

Monkey seems to be at the dials in my VZ central office; so persistent doesn't apply. Same for reliable.


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## h00ligan

I'm having a ton of pixellation as well, but I always assumed it was Cox... So are you guys taking the tivo out of the equation to test? I can't do that unfortunately as i have no digital box aside from Tivos and my TV doesn't see to like Cox's ridiculous channel mapping.


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## hmm52

If you have some free time, read my post on page 21. In my experience of it, the S3 is not very tolerant of imperfect signals compared to other QAM cablecard devices.


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## h00ligan

thanks for the info - unfortunately i receive absolutely *zero* ota hd channels in my location, heh - it's ridiculous. I'm right behind a mountain. I initially - pre tivo - was going to setup ota hd and a media center pc - ended up with tivo due to ota issue. Literally not ONE station comes in here.. it's dreadful.


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## rcr2

After finally getting KS57 and KS58 to work, my problems have only gotten worse.

Given the similarity to the last time I had this kind of problem, I'm throwing in the towel and calling it a hard drive failure. Last time, I sent my unit back to TiVo for the replacement unit, but that is such a pain - re-pairing cable cards, waiting for the box, the refund process...

So, I just ordered a 750GB WD Cavier SATA from Tigerdirect for $150. Plus two USB to SATA cables. I'm going the WinMFS route. Wish me luck. Should have the drive by Tuesday.


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## hmm52

h00ligan said:


> thanks for the info - unfortunately i receive absolutely *zero* ota hd channels in my location, heh - it's ridiculous. I'm right behind a mountain. I initially - pre tivo - was going to setup ota hd and a media center pc - ended up with tivo due to ota issue. Literally not ONE station comes in here.. it's dreadful.


That's too bad. My sister & brother in law live in the Blue Ridge mountains, SW Virginia close to Winston Salem, NC. Similar situation, large farm in a valley. For years they used a "lifeline cable" for distant placement of antenna & got OK reception for VHF analog; now using satellite receiver. Reception can also be difficult in dense urban areas (high rises). Easiest in suburbs. With a 2'X4' UHF only ant. at ground level, I reliably get all but one of the digital broadcasts which are 10 -38 miles away; each within 33 degrees of the other. A few VHF analogs come in OK also though the antenna is not designed for VHF (not positioned well for that either). I may need a different antenna in future as some broadcasters are moving their (digital) channels back to the VHF spectrum with reassignments next year.

Last night I started doing something that I should have done long ago - read the posts in this thread sequentially from beginning. Only up through August so far; earlier software version. Some summer posts mentioned pixelation with OTA tuning. Except during recent storm, I've not seen it in 6 weeks with the S3. So far it has worked very well for me as an OTA receiver/recorder. Some prefer to get their local HD this way because of its uncompressed signal. I haven't seen a difference either with FIOS or Comcast.

If interested in outdoor antenna, first site to check is www.antennaweb.org. Enter location on map; get product type recommendations & channels you can expect to receive. Info on major manufacturers' sites is thorough as well.

I requested an exhange unit from TiVo last night (55 minute call with an obviously new hire). [1] My S3's chronic daily problems are with high MHz located channels when using tuner 0. [2] Episodically there is pixelation, mostly on low MHz local HDs, that hits both S3 cable tuners, and to a lesser extent the Toshiba cablecard Tv , at the same time (brief episodes recently). It sort of seems like two different issues; the first one having some chance of remedy in an exchange. With just a replacement, I have no expectation of relief from the second issue. Antenna remains as primary feed for locals until TiVo finds a solution. Hopefully before their next generation DVR is introduced. I'll keep reminding them of the deficiency in the meantime.

Unlike the characteristics posted last summer, the pixelation I've observed has been full screen, constant or nearly so, and has not appeared in menus. 
I haven't seen my S3 rebooting itself in quite awhile now. Maybe it has simply become more discreet.


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## pwocarroll

Just read the entirety of this amazing thread, since I'm also having pixelation problems -- but mine are quite discrete, and I thought it MIGHT be worth adding to this growing body of pixelation buzz:

1) I have Comcast as service provider.

2) In the past (yes, I think this is relevant), I had one TV on SD Tivo with digital comcast converter, and one on a second TV with SD Tivo with NO converter--i.e., analog signal form Comcast. On the latter set--and only on this analog signal-driven set--channel 4 (ABC) was filled with ghosts and interference. After much anguish with cable guys cutting and splicing and signal boosting-with-amplifiers to no avail, I got a second digital converter box for the second TV--and then channel 4 came in fine.

3) Now I have a third set up in my home theater with high-def signal from Comcast, and HD TiVo. It's gorgeous--EXCEPT FOR CHANNEL 104, which is the high-def ABC channel. On this 104/ABC channel--but NOT on channel 4/ABC, its SD standard-def counterpart channel--I get pixelation, frozen picture and interruptions to audio literally every 5-15seeconds. Imagine my feelings when my favorite show (Lost) was unwatchable in high-def, and I am consigned to watching it via an SD signal on a tube TV, while my home theater goes dark. Arrrgghhh!

4) Comcast cable guy coming out tomorrow, but I suspect my chances of him solving this problem are about the same as if I waved a chicken over my head while chanting voo-doo incantations.

I do have a question for y'all though: GIVEN MY HISTORY of poor signal on channel four/ABC: Doesn't it seem more likely that I have a signal-strength problem from Comcast, than a hardware problem with HD TiVo?

TiVo has agreed to replace my HD TiVo hw for $49, but I am not confident this would solve the problem -- and the experiment would, of course, involve much hassle.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Patrick


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## naybag

pwocarroll said:


> 4) Comcast cable guy coming out tomorrow, but I suspect my chances of him solving this problem are about the same as if I waved a chicken over my head while chanting voo-doo incantations.


Hmmm. Since I still haven't found the attenuation sweet spot to fix my pixelation problems I may try a little voodoo! Do you think the pre-packaged boneless and skinless chicken breast from the Costco will suffice?


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## richsadams

pwocarroll said:


> Just read the entirety of this amazing thread, since I'm also having pixelation problems -- but mine are quite discrete, and I thought it MIGHT be worth adding to this growing body of pixelation buzz:
> 
> 1) I have Comcast as service provider.
> 
> 2) In the past (yes, I think this is relevant), I had one TV on SD Tivo with digital comcast converter, and one on a second TV with SD Tivo with NO converter--i.e., analog signal form Comcast. On the latter set--and only on this analog signal-driven set--channel 4 (ABC) was filled with ghosts and interference. After much anguish with cable guys cutting and splicing and signal boosting-with-amplifiers to no avail, I got a second digital converter box for the second TV--and then channel 4 came in fine.
> 
> 3) Now I have a third set up in my home theater with high-def signal from Comcast, and HD TiVo. It's gorgeous--EXCEPT FOR CHANNEL 104, which is the high-def ABC channel. On this 104/ABC channel--but NOT on channel 4/ABC, its SD standard-def counterpart channel--I get pixelation, frozen picture and interruptions to audio literally every 5-15seeconds. Imagine my feelings when my favorite show (Lost) was unwatchable in high-def, and I am consigned to watching it via an SD signal on a tube TV, while my home theater goes dark. Arrrgghhh!
> 
> 4) Comcast cable guy coming out tomorrow, but I suspect my chances of him solving this problem are about the same as if I waved a chicken over my head while chanting voo-doo incantations.
> 
> I do have a question for y'all though: GIVEN MY HISTORY of poor signal on channel four/ABC: Doesn't it seem more likely that I have a signal-strength problem from Comcast, than a hardware problem with HD TiVo?
> 
> TiVo has agreed to replace my HD TiVo hw for $49, but I am not confident this would solve the problem -- and the experiment would, of course, involve much hassle.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks, Patrick


Given your history it sounds like a local issue. We had a multitude of PQ (and audio) problems with our local NBC affiliate while they were switching over to full time HD. What a nightmare. Nothing to do with our cableco (Comcast) or TiVo. They finally got it sorted and now everything is fine. You could get a replacement box but I'd bet you'll experience the same problem.

You may have better luck working with Comcast and/or your local ABC affiliate. My $.02.


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## richsadams

naybag said:


> Hmmm. Since I still haven't found the attenuation sweet spot to fix my pixelation problems I may try a little voodoo! Do you think the pre-packaged boneless and skinless chicken breast from the Costco will suffice?


LMAO!


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## mag249

Rich,

Probably not the right forum for this as I have stuttering video, not pixelating.

Along with stuttering video, I have freezes, random reboots and sluggish (if not frozen) remote responses. 

This just started in the last two days so I cant blame it on a software upgrade or an electical storm!

I tried the Tivo kickstart and neither did any good (nor showed any problems with the hard drive as it was up and running in 10 minutes, not 3 hours)

When I unplug my coax, everything works smoothly again. As soon as I plug back in, I have issues. 

I have since removed HD channels from my listing and that seems to help. 

I have resigned myself to picking up a new hard drive, but did not want to spend the money if it turns out to be a signal strength or cable card issue.

Thanks for any light you can shed!


----------



## mag249

I should also not that I have Comcast cards and I did have them rehit to no avail.....


----------



## richsadams

mag249 said:


> Rich,
> 
> Probably not the right forum for this as I have stuttering video, not pixelating.
> 
> Along with stuttering video, I have freezes, random reboots and sluggish (if not frozen) remote responses.
> 
> This just started in the last two days so I cant blame it on a software upgrade or an electical storm!
> 
> I tried the Tivo kickstart and neither did any good (nor showed any problems with the hard drive as it was up and running in 10 minutes, not 3 hours)
> 
> When I unplug my coax, everything works smoothly again. As soon as I plug back in, I have issues.
> 
> I have since removed HD channels from my listing and that seems to help.
> 
> I have resigned myself to picking up a new hard drive, but did not want to spend the money if it turns out to be a signal strength or cable card issue.
> 
> Thanks for any light you can shed!





mag249 said:


> I should also not that I have Comcast cards and I did have them rehit to no avail.....


It has the earmarks of a failing hard drive. It would appear that the HDD cannot correct I/O errors which causes the visible stuttering, etc. and reboots. Did you happen to look at the corrected and uncorrected errors on the diagnostics screens?

One last thing to try would be to remove the cable cards, keep the coax connected and try re-running guided setup. You won't get the premium channels, but it is a way to tell if there is the possibility of cable card problems. If it clears up you might want to have your cable cards replaced. However that's not a guarantee that it won't happen again when new cards are installed because it still could be the HDD.

Odds are it's a hard drive failure based on historical posts from others having the same issues which cleared up after replacing their hard drive or their TiVo. Replacing a drive is quite easy either as a DIY job or by buying a pre-imaged drive from DVRUpgrade or Weaknees. All of the DIY info can be found at MFSlive.org or you can buy a bare drive and use Instant Cake to image it.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## mag249

Thanks Rich,

I echo the thoughts of others when I say we appreciate your efforts and knowledge as we deal with these issues.

MAG


----------



## hmm52

richsadams said:


> Odds are it's a hard drive failure ...


Rich,

I have some questions for you.

With the coming replacement unit or current S3, I will continue to archive a certain # of recordings, split with the Seagate eSATA drive in place. In reading through this thread, I've seen many references to hard drive failure. This suggests that the TiVo HDDs are not very robust. Would you recommend that I replace the drive, after 60 days of warranty or so, with 3rd party HDD to minimize chance of future disappointment? I realize that previous recordings will be lost.

I also noticed many references to August & November as bad patches for pixelation. While there were TiVo software revisions around those times, it struck me as curious that those were the same periods I encountered pixelation issues with the Toshiba cablecard Tv. August - the first time after 8 solid months. November - the worst time to date. I had thought it was a Verizon only issue, most likely originating in my nearby central office; I was told so by VZ tech. Many posts by TiVo users across the country also referred to first time pixelation in August. Was much or all of this provoked by CableLab updates? You read in the AVS Forum. What do you think? I'll try to find something relevant in the Verizon forums.

To me the most maddening thing about cable providers is the compartmentalization. I don't have any issue with the techs, either Verizon's or Comcast's. If they didn't have the necessary expertise, they didn't hesitate to bring in someone who did. I've never encountered a cable tech with a bad attitude. But with VZ anyway, only the "Big Boss" is given the required equipment to read in depth line errors past and ahead of the ONT. And even the Big Boss operates under an obvious directive to first turn your house inside out at least 3 times before making such test. Passing it on to next level, central office, is then & only then permitted. Who knows how many dances must be done to reach the home office level? By customer and employee. Maybe shareholder relations is the way to go. More venting than a question; unless you have an answer of course ...

Thanks in advance


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Rich,
> 
> I have some questions for you.
> 
> With the coming replacement unit or current S3, I will continue to archive a certain # of recordings, split with the Seagate eSATA drive in place. In reading through this thread, I've seen many references to hard drive failure. This suggests that the TiVo HDDs are not very robust. Would you recommend that I replace the drive, after 60 days of warranty or so, with 3rd party HDD to minimize chance of future disappointment? I realize that previous recordings will be lost.


No, I wouldn't plan on replacing the HDD in a newer _or _older unit unless there's something wrong with it. TiVo uses the very same WD HDD's available to everyone, nothing "special". In general the people that find their way to this forum are having problems. With four million plus TiVo's in the wild, the percentage that will experience HDD failures are the same as with any computer (within the manufacturer's specs)...higher as they get older of course. The people experiencing issues here are pretty small by comparison but I can sympathize with the frustrations when it happens. I'm a Seagate guy myself, but I have the 1TB WD GP drive in my Series3 at the moment and it's been working flawlessly since about October or so.



hmm52 said:


> I also noticed many references to August & November as bad patches for pixelation. While there were TiVo software revisions around those times, it struck me as curious that those were the same periods I encountered pixelation issues with the Toshiba cablecard Tv. August - the first time after 8 solid months. November - the worst time to date. I had thought it was a Verizon only issue, most likely originating in my nearby central office; I was told so by VZ tech. Many posts by TiVo users across the country also referred to first time pixelation in August. Was much or all of this provoked by CableLab updates? You read in the AVS Forum. What do you think? I'll try to find something relevant in the Verizon forums.


Problems seem to come in waves. Historically there always seem to be a flurry of reports right after an upgrade. I'm certain that has something to do with TiVo's software, but other times, as you point out, cableco's, local broadcasters, etc. have their issues too. With umpteen different providers using all manner of equipment to deliver what is supposed to be a "standard signal" I can't help but believe some of the issues are local and others are TiVo. That said, TiVo has been able to rectify things over time...never quickly enough for anyone having problems of course. I'm biased as for the most part we haven't experienced too many problems in the six or seven years of having TiVo, and when we have they've been resolved eventually.



hmm52 said:


> To me the most maddening thing about cable providers is the compartmentalization. I don't have any issue with the techs, either Verizon's or Comcast's. If they didn't have the necessary expertise, they didn't hesitate to bring in someone who did. I've never encountered a cable tech with a bad attitude. But with VZ anyway, only the "Big Boss" is given the required equipment to read in depth line errors past and ahead of the ONT. And even the Big Boss operates under an obvious directive to first turn your house inside out at least 3 times before making such test. Passing it on to next level, central office, is then & only then permitted. Who knows how many dances must be done to reach the home office level? By customer and employee. Maybe shareholder relations is the way to go. More venting than a question; unless you have an answer of course ...
> 
> Thanks in advance


Verizon is the new kid on the block when it comes to cable and I'm sure they're experiencing their own growing pains. Add to that the fact that TiVo has to account for whatever their system is delivering via FIOS...signal strength too strong, different specs...etc. Plus cable card technology hasn't been around that long either. It's not pretty, but I have faith that it will be conquered by both companies. As you mention, if the share holders ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!


----------



## hmm52

Rich,

You must have a higher level of tolerance than mine. Go diving in the coastal Pacfic? Abalone? - free diving only, I think. Kelp forests, rip currents, g.w. sharks, 55 degrees, rough surf, limited visibility...

If cartel nations go ahead with plan to price oil in euros, not dollars, our DVR & cable company concerns will vanish into nothingness. I'm amazed they waited this long. That's tolerance!


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Rich,
> 
> You must have a higher level of tolerance than mine. Go diving in the coastal Pacfic? Abalone? - free diving only, I think. Kelp forests, rip currents, g.w. sharks, 55 degrees, rough surf, limited visibility...
> 
> If cartel nations go ahead with plan to price oil in euros, not dollars, our DVR & cable company concerns will vanish into nothingness. I'm amazed they waited this long. That's tolerance!


Ha! No sir...bathtub temperature water for me...Fiji, Turks and Caicos, Belize...and sharks just big enough to pet...nothing that can call me dinner! 

TiVo on the other hand can give me fits like anyone else.  Over the years I think I've gotten to be at peace with the fact that they've always come through is all. Never as quickly as I want of course...but eventually. Whether that's a good or bad thing I don't know...but I guess that's my tolerance level. 

Now I have to go out and put some gas in my car.    Thanks for reminding me.


----------



## Cue-Ball

Is anyone seeing this issue with OTA signals? I bought my TivoHD specifically so I could go pure-OTA and dump Comcast. Ever since I installed it my picture has been gorgeous, but pixelates on multiple channels every so often (sometimes it's every minute or two during an entire program, usually it's once every 15 minutes or so. Not unwatchable, but damn annoying). I've checked and my signals strength is at least 65 for every channel. I had this issue the other night and checked the signal strength. I sat there watching the signal strength meter for several minutes with the show playing in the background. It was still pixelating, even with a strength hovering around 80!

I read through a lot of the thread, but lots of it seemed to be old firmware and most people seem to be having issues with Cablecards and cable providers. Is anyone else running OTA signals only and seeing this issue?


----------



## rcr2

I'm not sure about the incident rate being low.. I don't think all 4 million TiVo users would come online to these forums to solve problems they are having, and would instead try and call TiVo, etc instead.

As it is, I have had two hard drive failures on two successive Series 3's. That seems to me a problem and bit suspicious than random and within an expected percentage.

Now, that being said, I am in the middle of a WinMFS upgrade to see if I can save my Series 3 that has been stuttering, rebooting, and generally has become a useless paperweight.

One thing I noticed on the WinMFS info is that it said the drive only had 1&#37; free. Now, I'm in the middle of a 4 hour pure copy, so I can't go and look and the details again, but it occurred to me that perhaps, just perhaps, TiVo starts to have a problem when the drive gets towards its max.

I don't have anything on 'save 'till delete'. Everything is 'delete when space is required.'

But it would make sense to me that if the software does not keep enough space on the drive to perform it's operations - ESPECIALLY in regards to the large requirements for High Def capture - then it would begin to have writing/access problems.

Perhaps TiVo needs to look at how it is managing space requirements and cut down on the available space and keep some dedicated to the system - say 50 gig - to handle cache and other functions.

And, yes - I tried to delete shows manually to see if that would help, but the system was not responding at all by that point that it was impossible to do so.


----------



## SCSIRAID

rcr2 said:


> I'm not sure about the incident rate being low.. I don't think all 4 million TiVo users would come online to these forums to solve problems they are having, and would instead try and call TiVo, etc instead.
> 
> As it is, I have had two hard drive failures on two successive Series 3's. That seems to me a problem and bit suspicious than random and within an expected percentage.
> 
> Now, that being said, I am in the middle of a WinMFS upgrade to see if I can save my Series 3 that has been stuttering, rebooting, and generally has become a useless paperweight.
> 
> One thing I noticed on the WinMFS info is that it said the drive only had 1% free. Now, I'm in the middle of a 4 hour pure copy, so I can't go and look and the details again, but it occurred to me that perhaps, just perhaps, TiVo starts to have a problem when the drive gets towards its max.
> 
> I don't have anything on 'save 'till delete'. Everything is 'delete when space is required.'
> 
> But it would make sense to me that if the software does not keep enough space on the drive to perform it's operations - ESPECIALLY in regards to the large requirements for High Def capture - then it would begin to have writing/access problems.
> 
> Perhaps TiVo needs to look at how it is managing space requirements and cut down on the available space and keep some dedicated to the system - say 50 gig - to handle cache and other functions.
> 
> And, yes - I tried to delete shows manually to see if that would help, but the system was not responding at all by that point that it was impossible to do so.


With the 'recently deleted' folder the HDD is basically 'full' at all times. Also, the partition used for recording is totally separate from the OS partitions. MFS can show what paritions exist on the drive.


----------



## rcr2

Well, my new MFS'd 750GB drive is in, working, and no sturring to speak of on any channels, HD or otherwise.

Plus, 98 hours HD capacity to boot.

WinMFS. Just do it.


----------



## richsadams

rcr2 said:


> Well, my new MFS'd 750GB drive is in, working, and no sturring to speak of on any channels, HD or otherwise.
> 
> Plus, 98 hours HD capacity to boot.
> 
> WinMFS. Just do it.


Glad to hear life is good again. :up:


----------



## vburnett53

Chimpware said:


> Just wanted to start a thread with various troubleshooting measures that have been tested;
> 
> 1. Manually rebooted - No Difference.
> 2. Upgraded connection cable between wall outlet to Tivo to RG6 from RG59 - No Difference.
> 3. Cooled system down from 48 C to 43 C using external fan - No Difference.
> 4. Changed from Component to HDMI Connection - No Difference, but resolution switching is more smooth on my Sony VBR2.
> 
> Additional planned testing:
> 1. Remove all other connections to my cable line including modem.
> 2. Power conditioning maybe.
> 
> Any other thoughts on what I could try?
> 
> EDITED ON 9/6/07: It appears that the issues experience by many users who had SA SCards has been resolved with the 8.17c update. I have downloaded the update and my wife tested (I am traveling and cannot test myself) and during 15 ninutes of viewing she saw no pixelation. Others have tested also and have seen drastic improvement.
> 
> EDITED ON 11/28/07:FIOS Pixelation Fix Update
> FIOS Pixelation Fix


EDITED ON 3/19/08: I am also having pixilation problems using the cable cards provided by Sudden Link. I am willing to try the solution above, but I am wondering to what the 8.17c update is referring. Is it to the cable card, the Tivo, ???


----------



## hmm52

richsadams said:


> Ha! No sir...bathtub temperature water for me...Fiji, Turks and Caicos, Belize...and sharks just big enough to pet...nothing that can call me dinner!
> 
> TiVo on the other hand can give me fits like anyone else.  Over the years I think I've gotten to be at peace with the fact that they've always come through is all. Never as quickly as I want of course...but eventually. Whether that's a good or bad thing I don't know...but I guess that's my tolerance level.
> 
> Now I have to go out and put some gas in my car.    Thanks for reminding me.


Rich,

Though off topic, it demonstrated an on topic point: Speculation based on limited data has dubious value. Should have known better though. "Eat, sleep, dive" not likely the words of a shore or free diver. Good match for a dedicated resort or live aboard type. My flights to the left have repeatedly stuttered, lost tune, then been attenuated to Hawaii somewhere. So I've never seen the full spectrum of Indian Ocean life, only a few side bands. Nearly went to the Seychelles but petty crime, a daunting itinerary, and a not overly enthusiastic girlfriend caused that plan to crash even though, being European, she had one less jump to make. Why bother? Service providers....A global issue. The core part fantastic. Peripherals episodically make you want to pixelate them.  So I do envy you for Fiji trip, probably others too. I hope the reefs on the flip side are in good shape. Protect things for future generations. Not our right to wreck them.

My oil cartel words came after gloomy Monday voice message from adviser. He forgot that I don't allow that tone of voice to be deposited for me. His son has worked as a banker in Dubai for many years so maybe he knows something we don't want to hear. Then again, his advice has often been off target unless "buy high, sell low" is the maxim. Anyway, the implied suggestion was to gather up some gold bricks or euros, not just petrol. Convenience stores out your way offering those products yet?

While I agree that Verizon is new to CATV, they are far from an upstart company - market cap 100 bil./'07 net 5,521 mil. (TiVo Inc. - market cap 885 mil./'07 loss 48 mil. Has TiVo ever made any money on an annual basis? on a quarterly basis?) VZ has been foaming at the mouth, and spending a bundle, to expand their FiOSTV subscriber base. Yet they have policies in place which rigidly obstruct maintenance and improvement of their product - within the FiOS entity and in customer relations. The net policy result is a waste of money, not cost savings. This is characteristic of a behemoth regardless of how new FiOS itself is. Unfortunately the needed impetus for VZ flexibility will probably have to come from the other CATV provider in the local duopoly. Maybe the explosion in sales of QAM tuning devices alone will help spur them on. Wouldn't bet on it though.

My personal gripe with them is twofold: After 8 solid months of FiOS without the tiniest macroblock being seen, I have routine tiling (pixelation) episodes since then - 2 devices. I don't know how widespread my experience is, but I know I'm certainly not alone in it. In November VZ made a change whereby it became very difficult to tune unencrypted digitals except for very "local interest" channels and bizarro programming of all sorts. Only 1 in 5 QAM devices that I have can still tune the local SDs & HDs unencrypted. In this I know everybody in Phila. area has had the same problem. Since November. The goal being an STB or cablecard paired to every Tv in the house? I hope that cablecard devices flourish; that the industry becomes more responsive & responsible; and in general it stops being Beta here, Beta there, Beta everywhere. VZ certainly has the ability to make the changes. The question is their inclination to do so.

Enough ranting and raving. Better to think of a vacation destination. Good luck finding gold bricks. You may need them for future travel to old familiar places.

Heck


----------



## hmm52

Cue-Ball said:


> Is anyone seeing this issue with OTA signals? I bought my TivoHD specifically so I could go pure-OTA and dump Comcast. Ever since I installed it my picture has been gorgeous, but pixelates on multiple channels every so often (sometimes it's every minute or two during an entire program, usually it's once every 15 minutes or so. Not unwatchable, but damn annoying). I've checked and my signals strength is at least 65 for every channel. I had this issue the other night and checked the signal strength. I sat there watching the signal strength meter for several minutes with the show playing in the background. It was still pixelating, even with a strength hovering around 80!
> 
> I read through a lot of the thread, but lots of it seemed to be old firmware and most people seem to be having issues with Cablecards and cable providers. Is anyone else running OTA signals only and seeing this issue?


I've been promoting antennas as a workaround for the pixelation on local digitals, depending on cable provider. I've only seen it with OTA, in 6+ weeks with S3, during recnt storm. 60 mph wind gusts caused tiling equally between TiVo and Sony QAM tuners. Only difference - Sony screen pixelated then went to black before coming back up; TiVo never went to black, just stayed with tiling before clearing up.

Signal strength in diagnostics screen is more responsive than SS meter (great for orienting antenna though). You'll see more fluctuation & dropouts on first screen. Channels which I can tune have SS of 88-90,28db on low side to 94-98,31db on high side. Channels that peaked at SS 35 or less are not tuned. No real difference between tuners 1 & 0. Since my antenna is at ground level, it's easy to experiment. Turning backside forward dropped weakest channel to SS 64-76 range; still clear. After 10 minutes SS dropped briefly to 55-60. There were horizontal tiling bands scattered across the screen. Same as what you're seeing?

You said nothing about your antenna setup or location. Gain is much better through antenna alone, not by adding amplifier. I made recommendations in recent post. Caveat is next year, there are 37 stations moving back to low VHF (2-6) including a few in northwest. UHF only unit won't cut it for them. Upper VHFs might be OK with elevated UHF unit; As WPVI (ABC Phila.) is returning to 6, I'll be pondering ugly directional rooftop monstrosity towards end of year. With any luck, you won't need the same.


----------



## richsadams

vburnett53 said:


> EDITED ON 3/19/08: I am also having pixilation problems using the cable cards provided by Sudden Link. I am willing to try the solution above, but I am wondering to what the 8.17c update is referring. Is it to the cable card, the Tivo, ???


The "solution" was a TiVo software update...long since updated again...which addressed some serious issues people with Scientific Atlanta (SA) cable cards were having, particularly those with TiVo HD's.

If you're experiencing macroblocking/pixelization with FIOS you may want to explore the attenuation solutions referred to in this post and thread.


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Rich,
> 
> Though off topic...<snip>


With regard to Verizon's FIOS still being wet behind the ears, this post and a couple subsequent seem to indicate that they're still experimenting with their offering.

Live aboards are the _only _way to go (particularly if you want to drain your bank account quickly) and I can highly recommend Fiji for everything one straps 3,000 pounds of nitrox on their back to be able to see and experience in the dark depths of mother nature's wonders.

Don't get me started on oil and the U.S. dollar. 

Okay...back OT.


----------



## hmm52

Rich,

Thanks for reminding me to check other thread. I will, but haven't yet, read through all of it. I should contract with you to edit my posts as last one could simply have been "You need a better antenna." Have never done a live aboard because of thinking them low on the romantic quotient; was also near St. Maarten when a nasty accident took place on same between anchor line, propellor, and new divemaster in her 20's. Enough said. My gut feeling is that Verizon planned too few central offices for their network; may never have been an issue with Internet service alone, but is with TV.

I'm biding my time until replacement S3 arrives. TiVo uses mule train? Except for locals sporadically, all pixelation is on tuner 0, 639 &711-777MHz. Not above 800MHz though. Curious. In last few days: Intermittent low pitch groans were heard from the Antec case for several minutes (fan? hard drive?!); GSOD was also observed twice. This signals only internal drive problem, or either one? What were esb1981's words? "G*d help me." I'll let you know if I'm successful grafting Sony tuners onto the TiVo.

Heck


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Rich,
> 
> Thanks for reminding me to check other thread. I will, but haven't yet, read through all of it. I should contract with you to edit my posts as last one could simply have been "You need a better antenna." Have never done a live aboard because of thinking them low on the romantic quotient; was also near St. Maarten when a nasty accident took place on same between anchor line, propellor, and new divemaster in her 20's. Enough said. My gut feeling is that Verizon planned too few central offices for their network; may never have been an issue with Internet service alone, but is with TV.
> 
> I'm biding my time until replacement S3 arrives. TiVo uses mule train? Except for locals sporadically, all pixelation is on tuner 0, 639 &711-777MHz. Not above 800MHz though. Curious. In last few days: Intermittent low pitch groans were heard from the Antec case for several minutes (fan? hard drive?!); GSOD was also observed twice. This signals only internal drive problem, or either one? What were esb1981's words? "G*d help me." I'll let you know if I'm successful grafting Sony tuners onto the TiVo.
> 
> Heck


GSOD is triggered by data corruption, which of course could occur on either the internal or external drive. "Groan" in the MX-1 doesn't sound good. Sounds more like the fan than the hard drive though...haven't heard one groan before, but there's always a first time.

When I lived in New Zealand it was a popular past time to swap Series1 NTSC tuners with PAL versions to make them work locally. You'd really be a charter TiVo Pioneer member if you could slip a couple Sony tuners inside an S3!


----------



## mag249

Just as an update to my earlier thread on stuttering video, I installed a new HDD from Weaknees on Thursday and have had nary a problem since. Thanks for all the input as I went through my various alternatives. 

MAG


----------



## jgerry

Pixelation on my Tivo HD is back.  But this time I caught it while it was happening and I'm even more annoyed. 

I've been rebooting frequently (at least once a week) to compensate, as that seems to help some. But I started watching watching my CBS shows last night. 8:00-8:30 was pixelated, every 2-3 seconds. Totally unwatchable. 8:30-9:00, also pixelated. 9:00-9:30 was also pixelated, but it was only about 9:05.

So I went to live TV, and lo and behold, no pixelation. But I let the recording continue anyway while I watched live. The live picture was pristine the entire time. No dropouts or anything. Yet the recording was completely useless. 

What does this tell me? That Tivo complaining about poor signal levels, bad cablecards, etc, is not true, at least in my case. The picture was perfect, yet my Tivo recorded it all stuttery. The problem seems to lie totally with Tivo, not with the cablecards, not with the signal level. This really disappoints me, because I know Tivo's going to want to replace my unit, giving me hassles, and then the problem won't get any better.


----------



## richsadams

jgerry said:


> Pixelation on my Tivo HD is back.  But this time I caught it while it was happening and I'm even more annoyed.
> 
> I've been rebooting frequently (at least once a week) to compensate, as that seems to help some. But I started watching watching my CBS shows last night. 8:00-8:30 was pixelated, every 2-3 seconds. Totally unwatchable. 8:30-9:00, also pixelated. 9:00-9:30 was also pixelated, but it was only about 9:05.
> 
> So I went to live TV, and lo and behold, no pixelation. But I let the recording continue anyway while I watched live. The live picture was pristine the entire time. No dropouts or anything. Yet the recording was completely useless.
> 
> What does this tell me? That Tivo complaining about poor signal levels, bad cablecards, etc, is not true, at least in my case. The picture was perfect, yet my Tivo recorded it all stuttery. The problem seems to lie totally with Tivo, not with the cablecards, not with the signal level. This really disappoints me, because I know Tivo's going to want to replace my unit, giving me hassles, and then the problem won't get any better.


Sorry you're having to deal with all of that. How frustrating. 

I agree there are issues with TiVo's handling of the signal, but IMO you can't discount the impact cable cards have as everything passes through them. What you're seeing is also typical of a failing hard drive as well. Add to that the fact that not all TiVo HD's (or Series3's, etc.) are experiencing the problems and the impact of localized issues becomes even more important.

If you haven't already, you could give TiVo's diagnostic programs called "kickstarts" a try. Another way to narrow things down would be to try OTA, removing cable and cable cards from the mix.

These same problems are being discussed on another thread and more often than not it's a failing hard drive. However more and more it looks like TiVo also has an I/O error correction issue, particularly with HD programming. (See recent posts here.) A number of folks there have had their problems resolved (replacement of their hard drives, cable cards, coax, splitters or TiVo itself) so I wouldn't give up hope. I'd certainly start with ensuring that everything local is as it should be but if all of that doesn't resolve things I'd be inclined make TiVo replace the box.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. :up:


----------



## jgerry

Rich -- thanks for the update and suggestions. I'll definitely do the kickstart thing today. As a matter of fact, I'll go run that right now when I'm done posting this.

As for the failing hard drive -- well, if that's what it is, it's been failing for 5 months.  

I'm not averse to the idea of dealing with Tivo and seeing if they want to replace the unit. But it's a huge headache, as it takes Comcast about 4 weeks to get an appointment in my area, which I'll have to do to get them to authorize the card for the new unit. That's a loooong time without TV. 

I can try and do OTA, but I tried briefly when I got the unit. I have tried 3 different antennas (all indoor) and had signal strength problems. A similar but different annoyance with the pixelation there.

It's just so frustrating. I spent 5 very happy, trouble-free years with my DirecTivo, then a miserable year with Comcast's DVR. I'm finally back to Tivo, but so far, it's hardly been worth it.


----------



## richsadams

I feel your pain...particularly with the POS Comcast Moto box! 

If it's been doing the same thing for five months, there's certainly a problem and I'm guessing you've had Comcast out more than once to see if they can fix things. If so, I'd say the box itself is to blame. It's still possible that it's a hard drive issue...but that it hasn't deteriorated, just been bad all along.

You have a lot more patience than I do! Just know that they do work fine (ours has been flawless...knock on wood) and there is hope! 

BTW, does it have two "S" cable cards or one "M" card? There have been several posts from people that initially had two "S" cards because their local cableco didn't have "M" cards at the time but when they had problems like yours, switched to an "M" card and everything was fine.


----------



## jgerry

I'm running a single M card. It's the only cable card setup I've had. Yes they had to come out 5 times to get it working, but I never had any S cards.

I have tried the kickstart 57 but I am not sure it's working. I hold the pause button on the remote, but I never get JUST a yellow light. It comes on briefly with the red light (about a minute after reboot), green light is still on too. I hit 57 at that point (on the third reboot try) and it seems to have rebooted, but I just have a plain blue screen. Nothing else. I'm going to check it again right now.

EDIT: I think my blue screen is just an absence of video coming from the Tivo. I unplugged and replugged it again, it got past the first startup screen, then went to the blank (blue) screen again at about 1 minute in. Maybe it's doing its diagnostics now? I'm going to leave it alone for a while.


----------



## richsadams

Hmmm. A blue screen isn't good. When KS57 runs you should see a GSOD screen.

I'd unplug it again, wait about 15 seconds and plug it back in. Hold the pause button down until you see the yellow light appear and stay steady (the other lights will be on as well). It will stay on for about 10 seconds. (TiVo may miss the command if you release the pause button too soon.) After you see a steady yellow light, then release the pause button and enter 5 - 7 on the remote's keypad.

That should cause it to reboot and the GSOD screen should then appear. Once the program has completed (a few minutes to several hours) it should then automatically reboot and go through the normal boot up process and screens. If not, post what you're seeing.

BTW, never interrupt TiVo (unplug it, etc.) while it's running a diagnostic. It can cause serious data corruption. If for some reason that happens all is not lost because you can re-image the hard drive with Instant Cake, but generally your recordings will be lost.


----------



## jgerry

Crap. I never got a green screen at all. Not a good sign. I'm going to go try it again. Wow, if I broke my Tivo, that's going to suck worse than the pixelation! Great timing too, as I am off my latest work contract and have lots and lots of free time right now.

Instant Cake may not be an option either. It says they have no products for the Tivo HD. I'm sure there's some nefarious place I can download an image though.

EDIT: rebooted again, finally got the green screen.  I'm letting that run now. 

Rich: Thanks for all the advice. My fingers are crossed.


----------



## jgerry

Diagnostics already done! Definitely not 3 hours. But TV is back. Let's hope all is OK.


----------



## richsadams

jgerry said:


> Diagnostics already done! Definitely not 3 hours. But TV is back. Let's hope all is OK.


Fingers still crossed. :up:


----------



## vectorzulu

I am seeing pixelation on my TivoHD. I am in Houston, TX on Comcast cable. I use one M-Card. I have a few observations.

1. I only see major pixelation on my local HD channels (over the cable). 
2. Pixelation only appears when the outside temperature rises above the mid 70's. Seeing that spring is here and summer is approaching I imagine that this problem will get worse. 

I purchased some inline attenuators as well as a tilt compensator. Using a combination of both I am able to dramatically reduce the amount of pixelation. The only problem is that my lower channels (analog) are now quite grainy. 

I am torn between purchasing a amp and calling my cable company to complain/fix the issue. I imagine they will blame the problem on the Tivo. I can see them hooking up their HD cable box to my TV and the picture being unaffected.

My guess is that since cable attenuation increases with temperature it is causing noise to get injected into the signal. I bet if they would just balance their amps the problem would go away. What I don't understand is why giving the Tivo a lower signal to noise ratio (SNR) makes the problem go away. In the real world a higher SNR is always better.


----------



## SCSIRAID

vectorzulu said:


> I am seeing pixelation on my TivoHD. I am in Houston, TX on Comcast cable. I use one M-Card. I have a few observations.
> 
> 1. I only see major pixelation on my local HD channels (over the cable).
> 2. Pixelation only appears when the outside temperature rises above the mid 70's. Seeing that spring is here and summer is approaching I imagine that this problem will get worse.
> 
> I purchased some inline attenuators as well as a tilt compensator. Using a combination of both I am able to dramatically reduce the amount of pixelation. The only problem is that my lower channels (analog) are now quite grainy.
> 
> I am torn between purchasing a amp and calling my cable company to complain/fix the issue. I imagine they will blame the problem on the Tivo. I can see them hooking up their HD cable box to my TV and the picture being unaffected.
> 
> My guess is that since cable attenuation increases with temperature it is causing noise to get injected into the signal. I bet if they would just balance their amps the problem would go away. What I don't understand is why giving the Tivo a lower signal to noise ratio (SNR) makes the problem go away. In the real world a higher SNR is always better.


Nothing is absolute.... Higher SNR generally means better but other factors may contradict that. It would help if you posted your SNR's and Signal Strengths as well as RS Uncorrected and Corrected 'rates' (how many in say 15 mins).


----------



## vectorzulu

SCSIRAID said:


> Nothing is absolute.... Higher SNR generally means better but other factors may contradict that. It would help if you posted your SNR's and Signal Strengths as well as RS Uncorrected and Corrected 'rates' (how many in say 15 mins).


Well from memory using no attenuation my signal strength (on a problem channel) would be about 90-100 and a SNR around mid 30's. My RS Uncorrected and Corrected would be counting up like crazy(1000's). After adding attenuation it drops the signal str. to a range between 50-60 and a SNR around low the 30's. RS Un slow to almost none and correct increases but at a much slower rate.

I will have to get more exact #'s tonight.


----------



## SCSIRAID

vectorzulu said:


> Well from memory using no attenuation my signal strength (on a problem channel) would be about 90-100 and a SNR around mid 30's. My RS Uncorrected and Corrected would be counting up like crazy(1000's). After adding attenuation it drops the signal str. to a range between 50-60 and a SNR around low the 30's. RS Un slow to almost none and correct increases but at a much slower rate.
> 
> I will have to get more exact #'s tonight.


Who is your cable provider?


----------



## vectorzulu

Comcast in Houston, TX


----------



## vectorzulu

I am using a 6db inline attenuator as well as a 12db tilt compensator (12db at the low end, 1db at the high).

This data was collected over about a 3 minute period:

Channel 311 (Local CBS HD) (Tuner 0)
Sig Str 56-68
SNR 31-32
RS Uncorrected 802
RS Corrected 33510

Channel 312 (Local NBC HD) (Tuner 1)
Sig Str 68-75
SNR 32-33
RS Uncorrected 0
RS Corrected 0

Using this config I get no serious pixelation on either channel. If I take out the attenuation pixelation comes back with a vengeance.


----------



## SCSIRAID

vectorzulu said:


> I am using a 6db inline attenuator as well as a 12db tilt compensator (12db at the low end, 1db at the high).
> 
> This data was collected over about a 3 minute period:
> 
> Channel 311 (Local CBS HD) (Tuner 0)
> Sig Str 56-68
> SNR 31-32
> RS Uncorrected 802
> RS Corrected 33510
> 
> Channel 312 (Local NBC HD) (Tuner 1)
> Sig Str 68-75
> SNR 32-33
> RS Uncorrected 0
> RS Corrected 0
> 
> Using this config I get no serious pixelation on either channel. If I take out the attenuation pixelation comes back with a vengeance.


Do you have a 3db attenuator you could substitute for the 6? What if you remove the 6 altogether?


----------



## vectorzulu

SCSIRAID said:


> Do you have a 3db attenuator you could substitute for the 6? What if you remove the 6 altogether?


Yes I do, but decreasing it below 6 seems to make a big difference. I might try to remove the tilt comp. and add a bit more inline attenuation.


----------



## vburnett53

vburnett53 said:


> EDITED ON 3/19/08: I am also having pixilation problems using the cable cards provided by Sudden Link. I am willing to try the solution above, but I am wondering to what the 8.17c update is referring. Is it to the cable card, the Tivo, ???


I have more information. The cable cards are Motorola, and I've tried the attentuators on the coax and nothing has helped. I have had the cable guys here 7 times - they say it the Tivo. I called Tivo support and they say it's the cable. I'm ready to just give up. And I bought my first Tivo in 1999 - do you have any other suggestions?


----------



## hmm52

richsadams said:


> Hmmm. A blue screen isn't good.


How about a welcome screen that repeats over and over? Yes, the replacement S3 finally arrived. Its boot sector wants more rides on UPS trucks apparently. On the plus side, the original unit has had fewer issues recently - narrowed to some channels on 771 & 777MHz mostly on tuner 0; plus a few others. I guess Verizon is tinkering with their signal.

Recent calls to VZ didn't go well. The card in the Toshiba fell asleep over the weekend - nothing except analogs & local digitals tuned. Two phone reps were unable to wake it up. No prior experience was obvious. Tech scheduled for Monday AM - a typically quick response. No show. My call confirmed that service visit never got into the system. But worse. Since there is a dire shortage of techs in PA, VZ cannot even take my request for service until Thursday. Don't call before then. Is this an ultra end restaurant? Growing pains extreme.

A new replacement was authorized as first call to TiVo was 4 days after purchase. Same issue since then. I still have some thought however that refurbished unit might be better choice as it should be checked out thoroughly; & possibly upgraded. Who knows...


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> How about a welcome screen that repeats over and over? Yes, the replacement S3 finally arrived. Its boot sector wants more rides on UPS trucks apparently.


Grrrrrr.  How utterly frustrating!

Did you happen to try booting it up w/o cable cards installed and/or coax connected? Just curious.

Best of luck and thanks for updating. :up:


----------



## hmm52

Attempts were made to boot it w/o cards but with both RFs connected. It just cycled welcome to black to welcome to black... - no indication of "just a few minutes more..." I'm open to trying something as I think the RMA is good for 10 days. What do you suggest?

Thanks much for the sympathy. I'm not as frustrated as you might expect. Original unit is behaving better right now and it remains an open case with TiVo. More concerned about Verizon actually. By far the two best techs I've encountered to date were shipped west some time ago. Service by phone and in my area seems stretched pretty thin at this point. However you should be impressed with them when your install goes through. VZ puts their best people in new areas to instruct trainees and supervise new installations. It generates good word of mouth recommendations also. 

Hk


----------



## hmm52

I called VZ again this afternoon on the chance that a weekday rep could revive the cablecard with a cold emit hit. No luck. It's dead, not asleep. First one in 3 years though a number were delivered DOA. I found out that PA service is a mess now because half VZ's techs here are union, half not. There is a labor issue currently in PA.

A week ago I contacted the biggest contributor to the Sony DVR thread, AVS forum. He has had a series3 also since 9 or 10/06. After initial problem and replacement, he's been very happy with it. No hard drive, pixelation or other issues.


Rich - I followed your implied advice. Took the replacement out of trunk & plugged it in at office, nothing except power cord. Within a pretty short time, Voila! Setup displayed. So you'll have to explain this: 1) It needed just one more road trip to function. 2) This unit doesn't like HDMI, comp. video, or RF connections. 3)The electricity in my house doesn't meet its high standards. I'll check for tiling/pixelation this evening. Thanks

Hk


----------



## btwyx

I just had pixellation issues with my S3, a whole bunch of recent recordings were having problems, and then recordings from several weeks ago were showing problems. 

I'd noticed some issues watching live the day before, I'd thought the incoming signal was dropping out again. However, as I hadn't been noticing any problems for the past few weeks, I decided to try a reboot and that fixed it. Recordings which were showing consistent and bad pixellation were suddenly fine again.

I don't know when the last time the S3 was rebooted, but it was probably months ago.


----------



## hmm52

Things didn't go so well with replacement S3 last night. Endless boot loop again at home. Kickstart 57 got it to boot. Did guided setup and a few network connections; 2nd one got service update, presumably 9.2. Back into endless boot loop never advancing past welcome screen. Unresponsive to kickstart 57,58, & 52 commands. No coax connected, no cards. Only Ethernet & S video.

Some background - TiVo rep had said replacement so slow for lack of inventory. After waiting several weeks before calling, expedited processing & shipment promised on a Saturday. Unit arrives via ground UPS Monday, 2 days later. Boxes undamaged but dent on metal faceplate & front is dirty overall. Not a great appearance for a supposedly new unit. 

What's going on here? Is there anything worth trying before returning it? Yeah, the irritation factor has definitely risen. I have no idea why TiVo delivers DVRs made at the end of December with software 2 versions out of date.

EDIT: Question about dent & dirt answered when boxing up for return. Fine print on packing list - "factory renewed". Request authorized for new unit 3/13. Delay because of lack of new inventory until 3/20. Knocked around non-working used unit delivered 3/25. Not good.


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Things didn't go so well with replacement S3 last night. Endless boot loop again at home. Kickstart 57 got it to boot. Did guided setup and a few network connections; 2nd one got service update, presumably 9.2. Back into endless boot loop never advancing past welcome screen. Unresponsive to kickstart 57,58, & 52 commands. No coax connected, no cards. Only Ethernet & S video.
> 
> Some background - TiVo rep had said replacement so slow for lack of inventory. After waiting several weeks before calling, expedited processing & shipment promised on a Saturday. Unit arrives via ground UPS Monday, 2 days later. Boxes undamaged but dent on metal faceplate & front is dirty overall. Not a great appearance for a supposedly new unit.
> 
> What's going on here? Is there anything worth trying before returning it? Yeah, the irritation factor has definitely risen. I have no idea why TiVo delivers DVRs made at the end of December with software 2 versions out of date.
> 
> EDIT: Question about dent & dirt answered when boxing up for return. Fine print on packing list - "factory renewed". Request authorized for new unit 3/13. Delay because of lack of new inventory until 3/20. Knocked around non-working used unit delivered 3/25. Not good.


The reboot loop would indicate a bad hard drive. Lousy luck of the draw...and aggravating! If it were me I'd call up TiVo and tell them how unacceptable this has been and that you want to return the unit and discontinue service. That should get their retention people's attention and hopefully some proper action.

To be honest, save for the physical appearance issues, I've always had good luck with refurbs as I know that they (at least should) have been bench tested completely before they are shipped. New units are only QC tested sporadically, so the odds would seem to be better that a refurb won't be DOA. However, your experience is certainly a lesson. 

Best of luck and let us know how it turns out.


----------



## hmm52

Thanks for the support, Rich. Most of my irritation comes from being jerked around by phone rep info. Told 3/13 I would get new unit as it's been an ongoing problem first reported 4 days after purchase. Told 3/23 that delay in shipment was due to shortage of new units, but some had come in 3/18. Told today that new units haven't been available since Nov. or December, refurbished only for warranty exchange; expecting anyday new DVRs with upgraded software & hardware. What to believe? Time for a letter to corporate office. A lot of effort consumed by these little boxes!


----------



## rcr2

I highly recommend to anyone that experiences stuttering, rebooting, or similar problems that escalate in occurrence to consider replacing their hard drive on their own, with either a kit or using WMFS. Using MFS, you don't have to even worry about getting your cablecards re-authorized.

I'm thinking that either the amount of use a unit puts on a drive for HD recordings, and if the drive gets massively fragmented, it just dies.

I'm planning on doing some diagnostics on the drive I removed from my Series 3. MFS noted that I only had 1&#37; space remaining, which I'd like to verify. Once I get some free time to play around, I'll hook up my old Series 3 drive to my computer and check it out.

I have a Series 1 and a Series 2, and both have been happily chugging away without such problems for years. Yet every 6 months, my Series 3 would die. I would think it has to be related to HD recordings and/or drive space and/or drive usage.


----------



## hmm52

rcr2 said:


> I'm planning on doing some diagnostics on the drive I removed from my Series 3. MFS noted that I only had 1% space remaining, which I'd like to verify. Once I get some free time to play around, I'll hook up my old Series 3 drive to my computer and check it out....


The Sony DVRs (also 250gb) often get very cranky when they run low on available storage - less than 15% remaining. It's noticeable first in the progress bar. Advance and rewind are resisted or jumpy; progress bar vanishes; picture skips and locks up momentarily; reboot after multiple commands. The Sonys show % remaining in system menu. "Near Full" flag appears with progress bar. So I've gotten used to deleting before 85% capacity is reached.

Thinking that the S3 might act the same, I installed early on TiVoPlayList (found in this forum) to monitor storage. It gives details of all recordings & their size as well as totals. Nice program. Currently it shows 426gb used, 514gb available. Though the designer recommended subtracting 15% for system headroom, I only allowed for 60gb as 3/4 capacity is in 2nd drive. Don't know if that's wrong. I have seen the S3 picture frozen a few times after long inactivity. No idea why.

I'll say again that I've never required assistance when installing cablecards that have already been registered, authorized, & initialized once - Verizon & Comcast, both Motorola. The S3's cards came from the Tv and one of the Sony DVRs. Still there. Channels appeared in less than 5 minutes for both slot 1 & 2.

I'm curious what you find out about your old drive.


----------



## [email protected]

I started getting severe pixelation about a week ago, only on HD channels, of which, only some of the HD channels showed problems. There were also audio and video drop-outs, skipping and other noise related problems during the periods of pixelation. In that same time frame, half my cable cards lost their pairing. (The have since been re-paired)


I called Comcast and they mentioned VoD was being set up in the area and to wait a while and see if, when the VoD implementation was done, the problem persists. I also have seen reports that Comcast is increasing their compression on HD channels in order to put 3 HD channels where they used to put two.

>So I am thinking the problem is a Comcast signal issue. Has anyone else seen this kind of thing related to increased HD channel compression? Or is it just >something that may have something to do with Comcast putting in VoD and will disappear in a while?

Wrong. It now appears to be a TiVo problem. On one TV that handles clear QAM, I watched live as the TiVo was tuned into the same HD channel. When switching to the TiVo, and watching what was in the buffer, I saw pixelation that was not present when watching live direct from cable. Watching live direct from cable, I saw essentially no pixelation.

Has there been a recent software update?

Thanks


----------



## jgerry

Argh!!! My pixelation has returned. Every show on NBC last night was completely unwatchable. This is very very frustrating. 

DirecTV keeps offering me great deals to go back. I'm researching their horrible DVR today and trying to determine if it will be less horrible than my Tivo HD has been. It's a shame I even have to consider this. But I'm paying Comcast way too much money, and paying Tivo every month as well. All to be aggravated trying to watch stupid TV.  I may just end up trying to use my Tivo for only OTA, then chucking it entirely once I'm done paying Tivo in 18 months. I am convinced this is not a hardware problem, and I can't stomach the idea of getting another unit from Tivo and having to deal with Comcast re-authorizing a new unit. I know the Cable Card fiasco stuff isn't Tivo's fault, but Comcast and Tivo are, unfortunately, all wrapped up together in a big back of suck.


----------



## budf15

Cue-Ball said:


> Is anyone seeing this issue with OTA signals? I bought my TivoHD specifically so I could go pure-OTA and dump Comcast. Ever since I installed it my picture has been gorgeous, but pixelates on multiple channels every so often (sometimes it's every minute or two during an entire program, usually it's once every 15 minutes or so. Not unwatchable, but damn annoying). I've checked and my signals strength is at least 65 for every channel. I had this issue the other night and checked the signal strength. I sat there watching the signal strength meter for several minutes with the show playing in the background. It was still pixelating, even with a strength hovering around 80!
> 
> I read through a lot of the thread, but lots of it seemed to be old firmware and most people seem to be having issues with Cablecards and cable providers. Is anyone else running OTA signals only and seeing this issue?


I'm having a similar issue and it's driving me nuts. I guess I'm lucky in one sense because it's not happening on any of my cable channels (I have HD and premium subscription channels as well as the basic digital) but since I watch a lot of network broadcasts OTA, it's a real problem for us. Our cableco (Charter) doesn't carry NBC, ABC or FOX in HD on cable so I have to get them OTA. Fortunately, the towers are close so I get signal strengths in the mid 80s to mid 90s for all of them. However, when watching programming, either 'live' or recorded, we get frequent pixelation. Sometimes, when it's happening a lot through the TiVo buffer, I'll go into the antenna signal strength meter, taking the recorded buffer out of the equation, and the picture that appears behind the signal meter is perfect. When I go back to the buffered picture, the pixelation returns! I assume that it's either a problem with ALL of my local broadcasters sending a bad signal (unlikely) or the TiVo can't handle the strong signals. Anyone have any suggestions? Should I get a weaker antenna to get a lower signal? Do I need attenuators?


----------



## hmm52

I didn't get any response from the TiVo executive whom I had written. 2nd refurb. S3 was delivered and will also be returning to Texas. Unlike the first offering, it booted & updated normally - to 9.2a. But it has worse tiling & no tune than the original, more so on tuner 1 than 0 regardless of cablecard. Something a little different! 2nd refurb. also froze & rebooted a number of times. Not a keeper. Maybe it's time to accept my original S3 as just a single tuner DVR. Pull the 2nd card or just make sure tuner 1 is doing the recording on channels that tuner 0 can't tune satisfactorily. Is there a certain way to do this? Until now, I refused to consider this compromise.

Ciucca posted last week that the 9.3 update had eliminated pixelation for at least a few days. Has anybody else with the update also seen this? No. TiVo CSR said there wasn't any way to be put on priority list.


----------



## ciucca

Sorry I've been away. I must report sadly that the problem is still there. I monitored it for a couple of days and it is still happening.

I believe this will never be fixed by a software update. The best we can hope for is a new generation (S4?) with better (not cheapo) hardware. 

I don't wish to start the same topic over again with "rich" and the other TIVO lovers. I am relying on my 20 years in the DSP field. From the evidence I can deduce that the problem is with the hardware chipset. If it was software don't you think it would have been corrected after 2 years?


----------



## hmm52

For obvious reasons, I'm definitely sorry to hear that. But I had my doubts that it could be remedied only with software update; first because there's such a difference between tuner 0 and 1 with my S3.

Things could be a lot worse. At least I'm not stuck with one of the refurbs. I received. Much better to have TiVo sitting on $850 than that. And I'm at a location with good OTA reception so the network channels are very rarely a problem. Tuner 1 doesn't usually have issues beyond the locals.

Worse by far - it could be my Tv with the problem. As an extended warranty is expiring the end of the year, I checked AVS thread on 1st generation Sony LCOS SXRD's bulb life. Whoa! There are a lot of extremely angry owners on that thread. Bad optical boards, new & replacement, that require dismantling to the bare bones - nice for the living room. Before a class action lawsuit was filed, it was Sony's policy to make 3 attempts to repair (lawsuit in progress means only repair offered now). If unsuccessful 3 times, they've credited owners with at minimum the original purchase price towards new Sony Tv or any other brand. Still an ordeal but one with a real resolution no matter what. This policy is not that unusual particularly regarding products with known defects. How about TiVo?


----------



## hmm52

Late today I got a call from a woman representing the TiVo exec I had written. She was very apologetic for the delay in responding and for the troubles I've had with the S3. She assured me I would be getting a new unit; stock would be available in a few days. I said that I'm not in a rush; just want a good resolution at some point. As I'm curious about the pixelation issue, she will have the lead tech call me. Besides the obvious one, "what's the source of the problem?", any suggestions for what I should ask him?


----------



## hmm52

budf15 said:


> I'm having a similar issue and it's driving me nuts... However, when watching programming, either 'live' or recorded, we get frequent pixelation. Sometimes, when it's happening a lot through the TiVo buffer, I'll go into the antenna signal strength meter, taking the recorded buffer out of the equation, and the picture that appears behind the signal meter is perfect. When I go back to the buffered picture, the pixelation returns! I assume that it's either a problem with ALL of my local broadcasters sending a bad signal (unlikely) or the TiVo can't handle the strong signals. Anyone have any suggestions? Should I get a weaker antenna to get a lower signal? Do I need attenuators?


I don't know exactly what your situation is but I think it's better to check signal strength, & errors, through the diagnostics screen. It's a lot more responsive to dips and peaks. It isolates the tuners. When I check on a problem channel with signal meter (no tune through tuner 0), picture will display fine with SS of 92-94 but it will note no tune at bottom of screen on 2nd tuner - DVR looks at both. Switching tuners makes no difference with your TiVo? If diagnostics show wildly fluctuating signals with peaks of 100, the signals are too strong. I've never seen that with OTA reception however; pixelation only appeared with very high winds - dips. As always antenna type, placement & orientation are factors but should have same effect on Tv or other device.

9.3a came through last night. Did a restart this morning. No change whatsoever in tuning and pixelation at this point.


----------



## richsadams

ciucca said:


> Sorry I've been away. I must report sadly that the problem is still there. I monitored it for a couple of days and it is still happening.
> 
> I believe this will never be fixed by a software update. The best we can hope for is a new generation (S4?) with better (not cheapo) hardware.
> 
> I don't wish to start the same topic over again with "rich" and the other TIVO lovers. I am relying on my 20 years in the DSP field. From the evidence I can deduce that the problem is with the hardware chipset. If it was software don't you think it would have been corrected after 2 years?


Thanks for the update and sorry to hear that you're still having problems.

It's true that I and most of the people that own the four million plus TiVo's love them. Your situation/TiVo is a problem with which I can sympathize. I know how frustrating CE products are when they don't work. I'm certainly not here to make excuses for their product. Things could always be improved be it software, hardware, customer service, etc. Over about 8 years I've had more about ten TiVo's and one had a hard drive failure. In my book that's pretty good...particularly when compared with how many computers I've had (which is what TiVo is basically) that have failed miserably for a multitude of reasons during that same time period.

If you want to give up on a product, that's your choice. Bashing people that take time and effort to help others here is another thing.

All the best.


----------



## snitm

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the update and sorry to hear that you're still having problems.
> 
> It's true that I and most of the people that own the four million plus TiVo's love them. Your situation/TiVo is a problem with which I can sympathize. I know how frustrating CE products are when they don't work. I'm certainly not here to make excuses for their product. Things could always be improved be it software, hardware, customer service, etc. Over about 8 years I've had more about ten TiVo's and one had a hard drive failure. In my book that's pretty good...particularly when compared with how many computers I've had (which is what TiVo is basically) that have failed miserably for a multitude of reasons during that same time period.
> 
> If you want to give up on a product, that's your choice. Bashing people that take time and effort to help others here is another thing.
> 
> All the best.


Hey Rich,

I've really appreciated your insight on the various threads you've contributed to. I've been suffering from this audio/video hang too.

I've posted my experience in another thread...

I know its generally frowned upon to sprinkle references to another post on many threads but all these threads really are related...

Anyway, your take on my situation would be appreciated. I think its quite interesting that Tivo CSR/engineering is finally seems to be taking the bull by the horns rather than defaulting to replacement.


----------



## hmm52

snitm said:


> Hey Rich,
> 
> I've really appreciated your insight on the various threads you've contributed to. I've been suffering from this audio/video hang too.
> 
> I've posted my experience in another thread...
> 
> I know its generally frowned upon to sprinkle references to another post on many threads but all these threads really are related...
> 
> Anyway, your take on my situation would be appreciated. I think its quite interesting that Tivo CSR/engineering is finally seems to be taking the bull by the horns rather than defaulting to replacement.


Rich,

I'd also like to thank you for your advice, empathy & positive attitude. For those of us with experience of only 1 TiVo which doesn't work properly, it certainly helps to hear from another who's had many of them where problems have been resolved (eventually). Though earnest, the TiVo phone reps haven't provided much meaningful support to many of us; not compared to the advice in this forum.

The alternative is pretty awful as I found on the Sony thread I referred to. It got me to look at my Tv differently - as a ticking time bomb. Maybe it is that. Don't know what the failure rate of original OBs was, but it has been very high for replacements. So the posts are mostly just cascading gripes for Sony and some advice for negotiating best deal after 3rd failure - now off the table with lawsuit. Not much fun to navigate that thread........


----------



## ciucca

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the update and sorry to hear that you're still having problems.
> 
> It's true that I and most of the people that own the four million plus TiVo's love them. Your situation/TiVo is a problem with which I can sympathize. I know how frustrating CE products are when they don't work. I'm certainly not here to make excuses for their product. Things could always be improved be it software, hardware, customer service, etc. Over about 8 years I've had more about ten TiVo's and one had a hard drive failure. In my book that's pretty good...particularly when compared with how many computers I've had (which is what TiVo is basically) that have failed miserably for a multitude of reasons during that same time period.
> 
> If you want to give up on a product, that's your choice. Bashing people that take time and effort to help others here is another thing.
> 
> All the best.


I am not bashing you or anyone else on this board who disagrees with me. What frustrates me is the attitude that the pixelation issue must be the FIOS signal and not a deficiency with the TIVO. This opinion is not just shared by you but others on this board and the TIVO technical support organization. It's almost like you and some others on this board work for them. This can't be true right?

Anyway most cable customers have legacy wiring in there homes and the signal is being carried over coax from the distribution centers. So I have no doubt the degradation is large enough that by the time it hits their TIVO there is enough attenuation that the customer does not notice it.

I'm happy for them but that does not mean the product meets the standards for decoding QAM signals on all frequencies. The FIOS signal is within the standard. I don't care what people on this board say there are plenty of standards engineers in our company that can prove it better than I can. The fact is 99% of TIVOHD and S3 installs require some sort of attenuation at the customers home.

It is really irksome that not only will TIVO not fix the problem they will not even acknowledge it. What do they fear? I did some research and I believe the financials of TIVO are not very strong. I would not be surprised if they were looking for someone to take them over.

I guess they fear the financial hit if they had to admit there was a problem in their hardware design. I guess the cost to redesign a second generation S3/HD motherboard would cost too much along with all the replacements they would have to do for the FIOS and some cable customers who called and requested replacements, due to the pixelation problem.

A better managed company would offer their customer the attenuators everyone has to buy for free, and post a work around solution for people having the issue on their web site. Instead of making people waste countless hours on futile tech support and searching the net for this board and then researching how to fix it.

For that much trouble they should at least offer the people with the problem discounted service or a discount on the next generation when it comes out. They would earn my respect and a lot of others who have purchased their last TIVO product.

Enjoy your spring and summer. I have nothing more to say on this subject.


----------



## hmm52

ciucca said:


> ....A better managed company would offer their customer the attenuators everyone has to buy for free, and post a work around solution for people having the issue on their web site. Instead of making people waste countless hours on futile tech support and searching the net for this board and then researching how to fix it.
> 
> For that much trouble they should at least offer the people with the problem discounted service or a discount on the next generation when it comes out. They would earn my respect and a lot of others who have purchased their last TIVO product....


Just want to point out that attenuators are not an acceptable workaround for me & undoubtedly others. A whole bunch of weak FiOS channels/signals are knocked out well before hot locals are sufficiently attenuated - even on tuner 1, the stronger tuner. Antenna a better alternative obviously in my case. Other owned cablecard devices are much less sensitive (Thank G*d!) to signal strength/quality so little or no problems with them. FiOS signal I'm getting wanders quite a bit. Within reasonable parameters? Don't know.

I agree with you that TiVo should offer some sort of redress. Ability to tune is a pretty basic function for a DVR. I also had the same thought about the discounts you mention. Let's hope they remain solvent. Check insider trading disclosures if interested....


----------



## ilh

Has anyone seen if 9.3a makes a difference? I just got it this morning and was wondering if I could ditch my attenuators (16dB).

I wonder if there is some automatic gain control that isn't working properly.


----------



## ciucca

hmm52 said:


> Just want to point out that attenuators are not an acceptable workaround for me & undoubtedly others. A whole bunch of weak FiOS channels/signals are knocked out well before hot locals are sufficiently attenuated - even on tuner 1, the stronger tuner. Antenna a better alternative obviously in my case. Other owned cablecard devices are much less sensitive (Thank G*d!) to signal strength/quality so little or no problems with them. FiOS signal I'm getting wanders quite a bit. Within reasonable parameters? Don't know.
> 
> I agree with you that TiVo should offer some sort of redress. Ability to tune is a pretty basic function for a DVR. I also had the same thought about the discounts you mention. Let's hope they remain solvent. Check insider trading disclosures if interested....


I have to answer one more time.

There is a standard that is followed for head end equipment communicating with receivers at the home (Motorola DVR, etc), within that there are communication standards for the entire optical path from the electrical level on up to the signal quality presented to the receivers. If you think the signal out of the ONT in your house is not within spec, then call Verizon they will send a tech to your house and replace every bit of wiring from the drop to the ONT, to all wires in your house until it is. After that if the TIVO still pixelates then logically it must be the 3rd party equipment. Yes the signal may drift but never out of range, a quality standards compliment receiver (Motorloa STBs) should be able to handle it without constant pixelation.

I'm done now.


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## hmm52

ciucca said:


> I have to answer one more time... If you think the signal out of the ONT in your house is not within spec, then call Verizon they will send a tech to your house and replace every bit of wiring from the drop to the ONT, to all wires in your house until it is. After that if the TIVO still pixelates then logically it must be the 3rd party equipment. Yes the signal may drift but never out of range, a quality standards compliment receiver (Motorloa STBs) should be able to handle it without constant pixelation.


Verizon already did everything they could in my house, in November when the signal was so far out that it even began to affect the 3 Sony tuners. Then, and since then, the problem has always been in the central office. Not on the street. Not in my house. Before the S3, The Toshiba Tv was the canary in the coal mine regarding signal quality. Not 1 macroblock observed for first 8 months. Tiling on locals not uncommon after that; maybe 20% of the time overall. Toshiba twice as tolerant as TiVo of hot signals, much more than twice as tolerant of weak ones. I can't disagree or agree about my CO's signal meeting spec. But I'm sure if it was delivered as it was in the first 8 months with FiOS, there would never be pixelation on the Toshiba & far less of it on the S3.

There's been something I've been meaning to ask you, being a Verizon employee. When signal causes lots of difficulties, getting that info through to CO is inefficient to put it mildly. I've called Fiber Solutions and also left messages on Big Boss's voice mail. At times that seems to have worked quickly. Sometimes clearly not. Can you suggest a better method? I don't call if it's just moderate tiling on locals.

Sorry for being repetitive but I think there are many who don't read previous pages in the thread.

Edit: tiling comparisons between Toshiba & Tv only rough approximations, derived from frequency and number of pixelating channels. Not logging often now as it's well into third month.


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## esb1981

ilh said:


> Has anyone seen if 9.3a makes a difference? I just got it this morning and was wondering if I could ditch my attenuators (16dB).
> 
> I wonder if there is some automatic gain control that isn't working properly.


Someone on another thread (can't remember who or which one) posted that he got 9.3 a few days ago and everything seems to be cleared up so far. He said that in the past if he took off the attenuators he would get constant pixelation, now he takes them off and no pixelation in a couple days.

I just got 9.3 today and have been testing one of the few channels that I get occasional pixelation on - so far i have 0 uncorrected and 0 corrected errors in watching for about half an hour. So far so good. Problem is for me it tends to come in bunches, so who knows. If 9.3 has fixed things I can't imagine it's going to solve everyone's problems, but hopefully they have done something in the software to improve the error correcting.

Fingers crossed!

Edit: I don't know how to do links properly, but here is the discussion on the other thread - go to reponse #42. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=389603&page=2


----------



## Roderigo

ciucca said:


> There is a standard that is followed for head end equipment communicating with receivers at the home (Motorola DVR, etc), within that there are communication standards for the entire optical path from the electrical level on up to the signal quality presented to the receivers. If you think the signal out of the ONT in your house is not within spec, then call Verizon they will send a tech to your house and replace every bit of wiring from the drop to the ONT, to all wires in your house until it is. After that if the TIVO still pixelates then logically it must be the 3rd party equipment. Yes the signal may drift but never out of range, a quality standards compliment receiver (Motorloa STBs) should be able to handle it without constant pixelation.


I still disagree with your statement that "logically it must be the 3rd party equipment." As there's no logic in your statement. The logic in your statement is more "we replaced all the wiring, therefore we're pretty certain the wiring isn't at fault in causing this problem." It doesn't say anything about the signal reaching the tivo box, nor how in-spec or out-of-spec that signal is.

Has Verizon tested for the signal for AM Hum? Group Delay Ripples? Phase Noise? Chroma/Luma delay? Microreflections? And a bunch of other parameters? These are all signal deficiencies that cablecard host vendors are tested against, and need to make sure their tuners can handle.

Logic would be if Verizon techs tested all of the signal parameters, and found one where the transmission was within the spec, but the tivo box isn't receiving it properly. If they clean up that parameter, then the tivo box works properly, then they have a logical argument that the tivo box doesn't meet the spec. And, maybe there's some other deficiency where the parameters on how hosts are supposed to respond aren't defined. Who knows other than verizon's RF engineers and tivo's RF engineers.

What you're describing is the troubleshooting skills cable techs generally use, because most of the time there is some problem with the equipment in the customer's home, and replacing the wiring solves that problem. Clearly, that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Tivo boxes are working in many customer's homes, so there is something in the signal Verizon is sending your box that's different from what Comcast is sending my box. But, I have yet to see anyone say what requirement either company is not meeting that's causing the problem.


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## richsadams

ciucca said:


> I am not bashing you or anyone else on this board who disagrees with me. What frustrates me is the attitude that the pixelation issue must be the FIOS signal and not a deficiency with the TIVO. This opinion is not just shared by you but others on this board and the TIVO technical support organization. It's almost like you and some others on this board work for them. This can't be true right? <snip>


Thanks for that. Actually I think we're more in agreement than not. I agree that TiVo bears some responsibility for being able to record and play back data without any problems. I also believe that the providers are responsible for delivering a reasonably good, strong, steady broadcast signal 24/7 as well and of course that's never been the case either. I also agree that we shouldn't have to go out of our way to get either to work properly. So it's just as easy for me to point fingers at the providers as TiVo.

But IMHO if we step back, take a breath for a moment and look at the technology we'd see that it's (by most standards) still new. High definition signals are still "experimental" for many broadcasters (much as color and stereo once was). Cable cards haven't been around that long. TiVo Series3's are a little over a a year old and TiVo HD's half that. FIOS is still in its infancy and Verizon is still cutting its teeth on delivering television signals. Maybe TiVo should have waited until everything was perfect (years from now) before they introduced an HD option. I'm really glad they didn't though.

I'm more in the "glass half full" camp believing that everything will be ironed out. TiVo's track record bears that out. Are things perfect? Absolutely not. I also don't believe that TiVo's or the provider's engineers are on vacation either. Color TV, stereo (and now 5.1 DD) broadcast audio, cable, satellite, broadband, high definition television...all of these technologies, many of them working in concert, are being improved daily. I just don't think this is an either/or situation or that any one party is to blame is all.

BTW, I've been waiting for my paycheck from TiVo for many years now.


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> Rich,
> 
> I'd also like to thank you for your advice, empathy & positive attitude. For those of us with experience of only 1 TiVo which doesn't work properly, it certainly helps to hear from another who's had many of them where problems have been resolved (eventually). Though earnest, the TiVo phone reps haven't provided much meaningful support to many of us; not compared to the advice in this forum.


Cheers for that and agreed...TiVo CSR's are _not _being given the training and empowerment to really satisfy their customer's requirements. I'm afraid they (TiVo) suffer the same "revolving door" CSR issues that other company's have. However they really need to step up to the plate with the whole macroblocking/pixelization problem and at least admit there is a problem and make it right whatever it takes. I suspect they're working hard behind the scenes but some transparency would go a long way toward improving relationships with some of their customers. :up:


----------



## hmm52

richsadams said:


> Cheers for that and agreed...TiVo CSR's are _not _being given the training and empowerment to really satisfy their customer's requirements. I'm afraid they (TiVo) suffer the same "revolving door" CSR issues that other company's have. However they really need to step up to the plate with the whole macroblocking/pixelization problem and at least admit there is a problem and make it right whatever it takes. I suspect they're working hard behind the scenes but some transparency would go a long way toward improving relationships with some of their customers. :up:


I should have added that it is exactly the same situation for CSRs at Verizon. My most recent series of calls to VZ got a succession of new hires (first day?) who really had no confidance in doing the most basic things - arranging a service call for example. I did my best to point them in the right direction. Result of 3 such calls, each an hour or more? - 3 no shows as nothing was entered properly into the system. I only waited in vain the first time fortunately. *** If you don't get a confirmation call the night before, don't bother rescheduling your day around a visit.

Last tech was one involved with '06 installation. He said CSR had misinformed me. All PA VZ techs are union. The reason for service delays is because of a manpower shortage and VZ's resistance to pay overtime. He came on a Saturday however. 1/2 hour to replace dead card, most of it for laptop authorization. I wish you better luck/service on your side.


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## vutng103

AbMagFab said:


> Back on track...
> 
> This isn't a CC issue. I have 6 CC's in my house now (4 on 2 S3's, and 2 on the Tivo HD).
> 
> The S3's are fine.
> 
> I plugged the TivoHD into the same cable, and I get pixellation (on both CC's, for what it's worth). I played with adding and removing splitter (-7db, -4db, etc.) to see what happened. It definitely changed the picture pixellation. So I'm thinking the TivoHD has a more sensitive tuner than the S3?
> 
> I also seem to remember these same issues plaguing the S3 for a little bit. And that they released a couple of upgrades focused on the pixelation?
> 
> Anyway, in addition to the channel pixellation, I see periodic menu pixelation, which is very new. I'm on component on my TivoHD, and HDMI on my S3. I'll probably switch to HDMI on the TivoHD to see if it makes any difference.
> 
> I'm hoping a software update for the TivoHD fixes much of this, just like it did (I think?) for the S3.


I had pixelations and at times no channels at all. I went through all the troubleshooting except for the obvious... I have an RF splitter hooked up to share cable to another room. The output was not sufficient and I replaced with a 2 Way 2 GigaHertz RF Splitter from Monster (highly recommended). Picture was much clearer on both TVs.

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=663


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## aaronwt

The cable signal doesn't go above 1Ghz.. 2Ghz is needed for satellite.


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## richsadams

vutng103 said:


> I had pixelations and at times no channels at all. I went through all the troubleshooting except for the obvious... I have an RF splitter hooked up to share cable to another room. The output was not sufficient and I replaced with a 2 Way 2 GigaHertz RF Splitter from Monster (highly recommended). Picture was much clearer on both TVs.
> 
> http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=663


Good info. Thanks for the post. :up: Often times it's the small things like splitters, old coax, etc. that get overlooked. Glad to hear things are better.


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## mbhuff

I wanted to chime in here. I have two S3 connected to FIOS. I did get some pixelization after the install, but it was intermittent. Adding 16 db of attenuation did help a lot, but one of my S3s then lost the cable-card sync after a couple of days, so I removed the attentuation and everything was working (although the pixelation returned).

Last week both S3s got the 9.3 update. Since then I haven't had a single issue. I can't guarantee that the problem is fixed, but it certainly looks good.


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## richsadams

mbhuff said:


> Last week both S3s got the 9.3 update. Since then I haven't had a single issue. I can't guarantee that the problem is fixed, but it certainly looks good.


Great to hear...very promising. They're installing FIOS outside my door as I type and I really want to dump Comcast, but as you can imagine all this chatter has made me nervous.

Thanks for the update and keep us posted. Hopefully others that have had issues will try removing their attenuators when they receive the v9.3a upgrade with the same results...and will chime in as well! :up: (Selfish I know...but what can I say?  )


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## hmm52

It's a relief to be dealing with someone with the authority to be creative in addressing requests. Woman from TiVo exec's office called yesterday to keep me updated. Apparently new S3's won't be available for exchange until around mid May. Just sit on the 2nd refurb. until then. - out in the garage maybe where its diseases can't infect original unit. In lieu of the aggravation of a weak tuner 0, my initial months of free service will be substantially extended. 

So if you feel stuck in a quagmire with CSRs, I recommend making the effort to jump over them to management. It has easily been more efficient with TiVo & years ago when I got totally fed up with Comcast's billing dept. I laughed after a call with management where the fellow concocted a package out of every imaginable incentive, though cable tv wasn't even his area. Sure beats arguing over the correct cost of cablecards.


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## esb1981

Okay, I posted the other day that my pixelation had vanished after the 9.3 update. Good thing I posted that, because it's back already... but now on another channel. So who knows what's happened.


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## wmblanken

I also have the new software release. Still pixelization on a number of channels, mostlly SD locals. 

TIVOHD with 2 cable cards and verizon fios.


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## MANOWAR©

I'm seeing it too, but on both HD and SD however it's NOT on the HD channels that I can get OTA if I wanted (NBC,ABC,etc) basically the major networks. Seeing as how this is so wide spread with every cable provider it's got to be a TiVo issue. I used to install catv for Cox and I wired my house myself. I can guarantee it's not a cable/wiring/signal issue for me. Everything in my house up to the TiVo is flawless and top of the line. 

It seems to be happening on shows that were never recorded in HD and are up converted from the cable company OR HD shows that are less than 720p for me.


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## hmm52

Who's your provider? At what frequencies are the pixelating channels?


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## MANOWAR©

hmm52 said:


> Who's your provider? At what frequencies are the pixelating channels?


comcast, not sure what the frequencies are.

just checked the diagnostics screen and it says my frequency is 183000KHZ if that means anything.
Channel bits:30746
Signal Strength:100
SNR:37 dB
Tune state: in progress


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## hmm52

The frequency listed directly under the channel number. I think you'll find that tiling/pixelating channels are clustered on a few frequencies. Usually 2 HDs/freq. Up to 10 or 12 SDs/freq. Any difference between tuner 0 & 1? Attenuators work to reduce/eliminate pixelation if caused by too hot a signal, if that is your only problem. Much discussion of them & SNR in this thread & others.


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## hmm52

Just got a call from "lead" tech at TiVo as promised. Talked for awhile about my S3 - consistently weak tuner 0 mainly in 7-800MHz range; occasional pixelation both tuners for locals 520 - 590MHz. He mentioned attenuators to deal with the latter but agreed that tuner 0 was almost certainly a hardware problem.

He advised me to wait for exchange as the new S3s coming in will have reworked tuners. But not wait too long as supply may be limited. He was also given an ETA sometime in May.


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## ciucca

hmm52 said:


> Just got a call from "lead" tech at TiVo as promised. Talked for awhile about my S3 - consistently weak tuner 0 mainly in 7-800MHz range; occasional pixelation both tuners for locals 520 - 590MHz. He mentioned attenuators to deal with the latter but agreed that tuner 0 was almost certainly a hardware problem.
> 
> He advised me to wait for exchange as the new S3s coming in will have reworked tuners. But not wait too long as supply may be limited. He was also given an ETA sometime in May.


AAAAHHHHH!!!! Reworked tuners! I guess I was right about the tuner hardware issue! I hope they extend this to all the FIOS customers having the same problem.


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## hmm52

So where have you been? I thought I'd killed this thread off completely. Did you hear that a few are having difficulties with 9.3? Nothing much has changed here. I'm sitting on the second refurb. Tivo's sitting on $850 or whatever it is exactly; I've forgotten. Glad I'm seeing much less freezing with 9.3, not more. Tiling remains more or less as it was, varying somewhat with signal. I will definitely post when new unit arrives and has had time to settle out. With current state of affairs, I'm not expecting it anytime soon.


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## wmblanken

Strange, but the channels that were pixelating have been fine for a couple of days. The signal still bounces around (from 100 to 93 to 100 to 87 and so on), but no corrected or uncorrected errors. 

I've got 6db of attenuation, might take it off and see what happens.


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## tman316

Hello, long time lurker first time poster. 

I just wanted to say that after months of frustration I finally purchased the attenuators and applied 13db to my tv as suggested earlier in this thread, it has been 2 weeks now and the pixalation has not been a problem. It took me a while to finally order the attenuators because the problem would disappear for a few days at a time. It seemed to occur mostly during prime time on the major networks but maybe I just noticed it more there because that is what I watch mostly.

My setup is as follows:
Tivo HD
1 multistream Motorola CC
Comcast Houston

Thank you to everyone on this thread that came up with this workaround.

Regards,
Mike


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## esb1981

I think the 9.3 update has improved the video error correction software, somehow. I know there are problems in my cable signal that sometimes cause pixelation. This had started occuring the other day on one channel (I had previously taken off all my attenuators because Cox had done work and things seemed to be fixed, so the signal was strong). I put a -3db attenuator on and the pixelation stopped, even though a check of diagnostics showed the corrected errors continuing constantly, but there were no corrected errors. Before 9.3, if I was having pixelation I could attenuate down and both the corrected and uncorrected errors would decrease, but not completely disappear, meaning I would get occasional pixelation.

Here's my amateur view on this - there are errors inside the signal sometimes (who knows what they are), and these errors can be amplified if the signal is too strong, thus causing the pixelation. If you attenuate the signal down, the Tivo does a better job of correcting the errors.


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## ciucca

Know that I have 9.3a instead of 9.3A, the pixelation has calmed down a lot. I used to get continuous "correction errors" without attenuators. I have removed the attenuators and, now they increase very little over a 24 hour period. Not noticeable on the screen. Coincidence? who knows, I will continue to monitor the situation. One other interesting thing the signal jumping from 100 (without attenuation) to 60 during the pixelation has not been seen for the last 3 days. The signal on both tuners have been pinned on 100%.


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## basf_audio

It's been a few weeks now - but I'm getting really bad freezes and pixelation on only two channels - HD FOX & HD NBC (I'm in Saint Louis with Charter). All of my other HD & SD channels work fine... I do have version 9.3a and external storage. I deleted all of my deleted items and have plenty of drive space.

Looking at the signal strength for the two channels they bounce around a lot between no signal at 80&#37;.

I've rebooted and unplugged and restarted several times.

Is this just a wait and see issue now? Should I contact Charter on this or just have the two companies point at each other?

_dave


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## hmm52

esb1981 said:


> Here's my amateur view on this - there are errors inside the signal sometimes (who knows what they are), and these errors can be amplified if the signal is too strong, thus causing the pixelation. If you attenuate the signal down, the Tivo does a better job of correcting the errors.


I share pretty much the same amateur view that you have. Except that it looks to me like the TiVos have difficulty dealing with line errors when the signal level is outside of a certain range - low or high. I've never used attenuation as a modest amount knocked out many channels that had tuned OK. I haven't seen tiling on local HDs (high level) for probably 3 weeks now, so the antenna has been out of use. The number of tiling weak channels has reduced though there's more correspondence between tuner 0 & 1 performance than there formerly was. Quality of signal delivered out of Verizon CO a major unknown variable, so impossible for me to draw any conclusions.

For previous poster, I'd bet that the Fox and NBC primary HDs are on the same cable frequency. Maybe worth a call to provider if expectations are not high.

I haven't checked in with TiVo exec. office recently about status of new replacement for original with somewhat weak tuner 0. I figure they have their hands full dealing with more important 9.3 update problems. I'll remind them I'm still around in the next week.


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## nuggets

I have a new Tivo HD (3 weeks old) and Comcast cable in a new complex in San Fran. Tivo has software version and I'm using a Motorola M-Card installed in the tuner 1 slot. I'm seeing the pixelation issues on many HD channels. The worst is CNN HD, Animal Planet, Discovery, and our local ABC affiliate. It definitely gets worse at night during prime time. Using the diags it looks like my Tivo loses it when the signal strength goes below 68. It appears that the worst channels for me are CNNHD with an avg. 75 strength, 33dB SNR, at 825000 KHz. Next is DiscoverHD with an avg. 75 strength, 34 SNR at 837000 KHz. Animal Planet HD is pretty crappy at 819000 KHz. Seems like I'm having problems with the channels in the 8xxxxx KHz frequencies.

My M Card has also lost pairing with Comcast 2 times in the last 3 weeks. 

I'm calling Tivo and Comcast today to see what's up.


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## nuggets

Oops, and I have Tivo SW version 9.3a-01-2-652.


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## untechie

we've had the s3 box for just over a year. it has almost always operated fine. around 10 days ago we started getting severe pixalation on all HD channels. Unplugging the coax will "unfreeze" the unit. SNR strength is @36-37, and OOB SNR runs @ 22-23 on both cable cards. both cards are SA's. we performed the "57" repair @5 times to no avail. Comcast (New Jersey) "hit the cards once but no change in status. During one call to Comcast the telephone tech indicated she received an email pointing to a "head" issue. I know Comcast is going to blame the TIVO unit. Yea, the quality of both field techs and telephone techs with Comcast vary greatly. Is there a definitive internal diagnostic I can run to tell if the unit crapped out, or if Comcast is the problem. I'd be really bummed if I ran out and purchased a new unit only to find the same problem. any help is much appreciated, i know just enough to be dangerous.


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## nuggets

well, well, well. I removed the splitter provided by Comcast to split my signal to my modem and Tivo. Signal strength jumped up between 93-100 on all the problematic channels. Inserted the splitter again...down to 68. Looks like a bad or improper splitter. I'm off to Radio Shack to purchase a new one. The one Comcast installed is an SVI Digital 5-1000MHZ splitter, FWIW.


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## hmm52

untechie said:


> we've had the s3 box for just over a year. it has almost always operated fine. around 10 days ago we started getting severe pixalation on all HD channels. Unplugging the coax will "unfreeze" the unit. SNR strength is @36-37, and OOB SNR runs @ 22-23 on both cable cards. both cards are SA's. we performed the "57" repair @5 times to no avail. Comcast (New Jersey) "hit the cards once but no change in status. During one call to Comcast the telephone tech indicated she received an email pointing to a "head" issue. I know Comcast is going to blame the TIVO unit. Yea, the quality of both field techs and telephone techs with Comcast vary greatly. Is there a definitive internal diagnostic I can run to tell if the unit crapped out, or if Comcast is the problem. I'd be really bummed if I ran out and purchased a new unit only to find the same problem. any help is much appreciated, i know just enough to be dangerous.


Most of us here know just enough to be dangerous. Your signal strength values aren't right. If they were, you'd be seeing nothing but black and a searching for channel message. Check the diagnostics screen again for channel info on tuner 0 & 1, not 00B. Curious that the phone rep mentioned a head end problem. I've only heard that from Verizon when a tech has called me after resolutions at central office, or at VHO. I'd assume that rep was correct. We aren't alone with these pixelation issues. Comcast & Verizon customers using Motorola boxes in Phila. area have also had tiling in the same periods that TiVo users have - just to a lesser degree. The frequencies that my S3 chronically has difficulty with are the upper 700MHzs - mostly on tuner 0 and never above 800MHz.

There is nothing easier than hooking up a modest antenna, & adding to setup, for backup and troubleshooting.

I very much doubt that your cablecards are the problem. Knowing the correct diagnostics values would be helpful.

nuggets - It was common to see tiling in second half of SNL. Not recently though. Perhaps VZ has moved back their CO/VHO repair & maintenance window locally; it usually began at 12:00AM. Tiling did vary from hour to hour anyway however.


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## ciucca

ciucca said:


> Know that I have 9.3a instead of 9.3A, the pixelation has calmed down a lot. I used to get continuous "correction errors" without attenuators. I have removed the attenuators and, now they increase very little over a 24 hour period. Not noticeable on the screen. Coincidence? who knows, I will continue to monitor the situation. One other interesting thing the signal jumping from 100 (without attenuation) to 60 during the pixelation has not been seen for the last 3 days. The signal on both tuners have been pinned on 100%.


Update. Pixelation is gone. I have not had a signal pixelation or signal flux for the past 3 days.

The people seeing pixelation since 9.3a, maybe you should check the signal strength, and try removing any attenuators if you have them. Could they have fixed the problem for FIOS customers and broke it for everyone else?


----------



## basf_audio

basf_audio said:


> It's been a few weeks now - but I'm getting really bad freezes and pixelation on only two channels - HD FOX & HD NBC (I'm in Saint Louis with Charter). All of my other HD & SD channels work fine... I do have version 9.3a and external storage. I deleted all of my deleted items and have plenty of drive space.
> 
> Looking at the signal strength for the two channels they bounce around a lot between no signal at 80%.
> 
> I've rebooted and unplugged and restarted several times.
> 
> Is this just a wait and see issue now? Should I contact Charter on this or just have the two companies point at each other?
> 
> _dave


I checked out a neighbor's HD system with just a standard HD cablebox and their FOX and NBC channels are just fine. However - no TiVo for them.

I'm going to call the cable company and ask for some help. Like a lot of people here, I've been running fine on all HD channels for the last 2 months and then this happened. Software, hardware - who knows. But it seems like this thread shows that "something" has happened recently. And I didn't purchase an HD TiVo to only record some of my channels.

Thanks!

_DS


----------



## hmm52

Most likely these two channels are on the same frequency. Diagnostics screen will show that. Neighbor's box doesn't tell you much. My TiVo S3 is much less tolerant of off signals than 3 other cablecard/QAM devices I have.

If you don't want to miss any of these channels programs, connect a simple antenna (preferably with UHF loop or other); add to setup; repeat guided setup & acquire guide data. You should be good to go in 30-45 minutes, with broadband Internet connection.----assuming you're not in a difficult reception area.

Call Charter and let them know about channels & frequency(ies).


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## ilh

ciucca said:


> Update. Pixelation is gone. I have not had a signal pixelation or signal flux for the past 3 days.
> 
> The people seeing pixelation since 9.3a, maybe you should check the signal strength, and try removing any attenuators if you have them. Could they have fixed the problem for FIOS customers and broke it for everyone else?


I tried going from 16dB attenuation down to 6dB with 9.3a and FiOS and uncorrected errors dramatically increased. I'm back up to 16dB (plus 9dB of splitters). In my experience, 9.3a did nothing for the problem of FiOS being too hot (for the TiVo HD).

I did notice that 9.3a seems to make pixelation MUCH less visually noticeable. I suspect they are not using errorful data, but rather just keeping the contents from the previous frame for an errorful region.


----------



## ciucca

ilh said:


> I tried going from 16dB attenuation down to 6dB with 9.3a and FiOS and uncorrected errors dramatically increased. I'm back up to 16dB (plus 9dB of splitters). In my experience, 9.3a did nothing for the problem of FiOS being too hot (for the TiVo HD).
> 
> I did notice that 9.3a seems to make pixelation MUCH less visually noticeable. I suspect they are not using errorful data, but rather just keeping the contents from the previous frame for an errorful region.


Interesting. I am not seeing the issue, and my Signal is pinned at 100%. I tested all channels, and it is fine. With that said I found that there is a weird momentary stutter, maybe it is what you are talking about. Anyway I'm sure it is a side affect of fixing the pixelation.

Are you in NNJ? I am.


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## Chip Chanko

Currently have pixelation on ABC, NBC, WMPT HD on FIOS in Arlington, VA. Have 11 db attenuation between 7.5 db splitter and 3.5 db attenuator. I'm going to try going to 16 this weekend. My Sony DHG-HDD250 is receiving the other signal off the splitter with NO PROBLEMS. This is ridiculous.


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## hmm52

I've had 2 Sony HDD250s since late '05. Also a first generation XBRSXRD for the same period. In the ability to accurately tune all manner of signal from Verizon, the 3 Sony QAM tuners are on one end of the spectrum; a Tivo S3 I've had for 4 months on the other. A Toshiba cablecard Tv also is very vulnerable to off signals, though to a much lesser extent than the TiVo. There is much information on this thread, and on another that deals primarily with attenuators to tame hot FiOS signal levels. I've not seen the S3 tiling on local HDs in recent weeks but don't know the reason. I haven't had any issues with the Toshiba in months.


----------



## hmm52

Chip Chanko said:


> Currently have pixelation on ABC, NBC, WMPT HD on FIOS in Arlington, VA. Have 11 db attenuation between 7.5 db splitter and 3.5 db attenuator. I'm going to try going to 16 this weekend. My Sony DHG-HDD250 is receiving the other signal off the splitter with NO PROBLEMS. This is ridiculous.


Hooking up your antenna and adding to setup with TiVo will take care of the first two channels. You've got one in place to get the TVGOS data for the Sony, right? I'd be floored if you were getting it through a FiOS converted analog. I don't know what WMPT is but it sounds like you could get it OTA also. Is there anything besides locals that you need attenuators for?


----------



## jman23

This is a cross-post from the Tivo Help forum, but it seems like my problem may be appropriate for this pixelation thread and the discussion going on in it. If not, please let me know. I hopefully do not have a warranty issue here. I have a stock TivoHD, local cable company, HDMI out, optical audio out, multi-stream Scientific Atlanta CableCARD in slot 1, native video, no DVR expander. I am experiencing issues with audio, video, and a combination of both.

These have been experienced with both live and recorded shows. It happens on HD and non-HD channels. When I watch video on the TivoHD that I transfer from my Series 2 Tivo there are zero issues. There is clearly a recording/buffering issue and not a playback issue. It does not happen all the time, but at least one issue per recorded show or full show watched at live.

For some shows, the video starts playing faster than it should while the audio continues at the same rate. Eventually the video slows down and the audio speeds up and catches the video. Then it proceeds like everything is normal. If I pause it when it's doing the weird fast video, it will work fine once I hit play. However, it will always do it if I rewind and replay this point.

The audio periodically just drops from the show. There is no audio through the HDMI cable to the tv and my surround sound (connected via optical audio cable) goes from Dolby Digital or PCM to literally acting as if there is no input at all. The video proceeds and eventually the audio comes back.

The picture sometimes gets garbled with a sort of boxy pixelation. Sometimes this is just a quick thing. Sometimes it messes up the whole playing of that portion of the show (lasts a minute or less, but the video is horrific). It does not appear to be channel-specific nor dependent on signal strength.

The video also sometimes stutters showing every third frame or so. If I change the channel and then go back to that channel, all is fine.

Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? The cable guy came out twice (thank goodness for free service calls!) and has determined it's not a cable issue. He also said it could not possibly be a cable card issue, but would not give me another cablecard to tr. For the symptoms I describe, is the cablecard really not a suspect?

Every HD channel I checked was at 100 signal strength and virtually all digitals were at 100 as well. 

A few card stats:
Tuner: 0
Modulation: QAM 256
Frequency: 627000 KHz
SNR: 37 dB
RS Uncorrected: 0
RSCorrected: 0

Tuner 1
Modulation: QAM 256
Frequency: 627000 KHz
SNR: 37 dB
RS Uncorrected: 0
RSCorrected: 0

CableCARd: 1
OOB Frequency: 75000 KHz
OOB data Rate: 1544 Kbps
OOB SNR: fluctuating between 26 and 28 dB


----------



## Chip Chanko

hmm52 said:


> Hooking up your antenna and adding to setup with TiVo will take care of the first two channels.


The product should work. Period. The box says it will "maximize my cable experience." I guess they should add " *with attenuators and an antenna hooked up, oops."

I've used an SD TiVo for years and want this to work, but I'm in an apartment and an antenna isn't an acceptable long-term solution for a service I pay for monthly.


----------



## hmm52

Chip Chanko said:


> The product should work. Period. The box says it will "maximize my cable experience." I guess they should add " *with attenuators and an antenna hooked up, oops."
> 
> I've used an SD TiVo for years and want this to work, but I'm in an apartment and an antenna isn't an acceptable long-term solution for a service I pay for monthly.


I can empathize with you to an extent as I had been using 2 Sony DVRs for years with free guide and no tuning issues, then witnessed quite a lot of them originally with the S3 on a monthly pay basis. But the ones I still have are not on the local HDs, involve weak FiOS signals, so there's no workaround for me. You however do have an option if it's just locals. Something like the Terk HDTV or HDTVa is pretty unobtrusive and can be covered with paper or cloth if it looks like an eyesore to you. A 15-25' coax extension cable would help in finding best location.

I've been promised a replacement S3 with improved tuners. I'll post its performance when received. Since 11/06, signal as delivered by local CO has varied quite a bit so I wouldn't be surprised if you had no tiling on those channels next week.

Are you actually getting host channel Gemstar VBI data for the Sony through cable alone, without an antenna???

As a 3rd party standalone HD DVR, TiVo is the only game in town. I can't see this ever changing, particularly with SDV and other request_and_send systems here and on the horizon. Panasonic, Sony, and all the other major players aren't interested in our difficult market, and won't ever again be involved except perhaps for OTA only units. Yet they all make a wide range of them for the Japanese market - $1000-$5000 each I'm told, not likely to be just OTA.


----------



## hmm52

jman23 said:


> Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? The cable guy came out twice (thank goodness for free service calls!) and has determined it's not a cable issue. He also said it could not possibly be a cable card issue, but would not give me another cablecard to tr. For the symptoms I describe, is the cablecard really not a suspect?
> 
> Every HD channel I checked was at 100 signal strength and virtually all digitals were at 100 as well.
> 
> A few card stats:
> Tuner: 0
> Modulation: QAM 256
> Frequency: 627000 KHz
> SNR: 37 dB
> RS Uncorrected: 0
> RSCorrected: 0
> 
> Tuner 1
> Modulation: QAM 256
> Frequency: 627000 KHz
> SNR: 37 dB
> RS Uncorrected: 0
> RSCorrected: 0
> 
> CableCARd: 1
> OOB Frequency: 75000 KHz
> OOB data Rate: 1544 Kbps
> OOB SNR: fluctuating between 26 and 28 dB


The tiling/pixelation that's been discussed on this thread have always corresponded to high RS Uncorrected errors, to the best of my knowledge. Something(s) about the signal causes the TiVo tuners, sometimes others, to not tune properly. All of us here still with problems would be very pleased, to put it mildly, to see 0 & 0 across the board. The values you quoted are primarily indicating how the tuners are managing their job ahead of the cablecard decryption; check on a premium you're not paying for if interested. It's doubtful that the cablecards are causing your problems as well - too sporadic, I think. I'm not the person to offer a diagnosis with these symptoms.


----------



## Chip Chanko

hmm52 said:


> Are you actually getting host channel Gemstar VBI data for the Sony through cable alone, without an antenna???


No...sorry to get your hopes up. I finally hooked up an antenna last night so I can use the Sony as a backup but was just using before to check if the problem was just with my TivoHD or with the signal itself. I'd previously been using the Sony with Comcast, so no need for an antenna. It would be nice if Fios passed Gemstar VBI, though.


----------



## hmm52

Verizon has run out the clock on that. I think their all digital status is June. Host channels (CBS owned & affiliates) in some areas are already broadcasting the TVGOS data digitally. Gemstar update for digital acquisition is partially in place as you might know. So you're probably going to need antenna for the Sony for 6 months or more anyway - depending on how quickly your CBS affiliate & Gemstar get their acts together. - unless manual recording with no guide is tolerable. No, forget that. You'll have no clock without a host channel.


----------



## nuggets

Here's a follow up on my earlier post regarding my pixelation problems. I replaced the Comcast supplied splitter with one from Radio Shack and it had no effect. I called Comcast and they came out yesterday morning to take a look. The guy connected an analyzer to the cable line and noticed the low signal. He went into the wiring closet in my apartment and noticed that the apartment cable outlets were split using a regular cable splitter (not a high speed one capable of carrying the higher frequencies). The Comcast technician replaced that splitter with a 2GHz one and voila...I get a great signal now.

Looks like the problem was with the wiring in my building. It's interesting since I live in a brand new building. I imagine that I'm not the only one having this problem here.


----------



## ciucca

Since the last few posts are not really describing the FIOS pixelation issue, I am ready to declare the overdriving of the tuner on FIOS fixed with 9.3a. At least in my case. I may now go ahead and get that TivoHD for the den, with the lifetime being $299.


----------



## Chip Chanko

hmm52 said:


> Verizon has run out the clock on that. I think their all digital status is June. Host channels (CBS owned & affiliates) in some areas are already broadcasting the TVGOS data digitally. Gemstar update for digital acquisition is partially in place as you might know. So you're probably going to need antenna for the Sony for 6 months or more anyway - depending on how quickly your CBS affiliate & Gemstar get their acts together. - unless manual recording with no guide is tolerable. No, forget that. You'll have no clock without a host channel.


Funny...ever since comcast was shut off my clock has been updating fine with Fios. No guide info but correct clock. I'm also getting PSIP info from them on the digital locals. I don't have a cablecard in the Sony so they locals are the only channels mapping correctly.


----------



## hmm52

*ciucca*

I wouldn't have guessed that you would be the one to throw caution to the wind. I won't join you in your appraisal. Too early. Too much is dependent on Verizon's management of signal. The second canary in the coal mine, the Toshiba, has indicated for months that my VZ VHO/CO has tightened things up a lot. No tiling. No Toshiba updates since 2/07. Yet there is still tiling on my S3 on a few channels - both tuners; tiling on a bunch of other channels - tuner 0 - signals too weak according to diagnostics screen.

Good luck to you nevertheless. :up:


----------



## ciucca

hmm52 said:


> *ciucca*
> 
> I wouldn't have guessed that you would be the one to throw caution to the wind. I won't join you in your appraisal. Too early. Too much is dependent on Verizon's management of signal. The second canary in the coal mine, the Toshiba, has indicated for months that my VZ VHO/CO has tightened things up a lot. No tiling. No Toshiba updates since 2/07. Yet there is still tiling on my S3 on a few channels - both tuners; tiling on a bunch of other channels - tuner 0 - signals too weak according to diagnostics screen.
> 
> Good luck to you nevertheless. :up:


How does the Toshiba come into play? Are you talking about your TV?


----------



## hmm52

Chip Chanko said:


> Funny...ever since comcast was shut off my clock has been updating fine with Fios. No guide info but correct clock. I'm also getting PSIP info from them on the digital locals. I don't have a cablecard in the Sony so they locals are the only channels mapping correctly.


This must mean that you're in a good/great reception area. Good news for the TiVo. You may get away with 2 straightened paper clips for two devices. Not too much of an investment, right? They don't need to be made by Monster Cable.

Your clock info is coming analog OTA. Redo setup for antenna, or antenna & cable, to get the guide back, and data. In Phila. area, clearQAM with FiOS isn't worth the effort unless music channels are important, or hearing from the county's HazMat engineer. Local HDs are untunable clearQAM by most brands inlcuding the Sonys and the Sharp Aquos VZ is giving away to new subscribers. Thanks a bunch VZ, even if you can remap channels manually with HDD250s.


----------



## hmm52

ciucca said:


> How does the Toshiba come into play? Are you talking about your TV?


I have had a cablecard enabled Toshiba Tv in my bedroom through all my time with FiOS, since 11/06. First 8 months - not one macroblock seen on it. Mid summer last year was the first outbreak of tiling/pixelation. It lasted about a month and was seen to a lesser extent by others served by Phila. VHO using VZ's Motorola boxes. Worst episode by far was last November for several weeks - all local HDs and half the rest tiled horrifically, seemingly in random order, but not random by frequency, only in channel assignment. But still almost no macroblocks seen whatsoever through 3 Sony cablecardQAM tuners. Tiling episodes have been milder since November with no tiling seen on Toshiba for about 2 months now. This is why I say I have two canarys monitoring Verizon's signal quality: The S3 being much more sensitive than the Toshiba. The Sonys seem to manage on just about any diet.


----------



## 21364guy

So I too am plagued with pixelation issues on my HD TiVo with FIOS service. When I first got my unit last November I saw problems... I only noticed it on a single HD channel. Added 6db of attenuation and all was fine. Now I am seeing problems on quite a few SD channels. Signal strength oscillates on these channels quite a bit- typically 60-93, but sometimes dropping to 0. In the meantime my motorola SD box has no trouble with these channels.

So I decided to call TiVo customer service&#8211; they told me it was a cablecard or signal issue. They didn't like the fact that my cardcards came back as:

Auth: SUBSCRIBED
Host Validation: Unknown 00
Copy Protection Key: Disabled

Any suggestions on my next step? Should I be calling verizon or TiVo again? I read over the phone hmm52's message about better tuners in new hardware, but the CSR claimed ignorance of this.


----------



## hmm52

21364guy said:


> So I too am plagued with pixelation issues on my HD TiVo with FIOS service. When I first got my unit last November I saw problems... I only noticed it on a single HD channel. Added 6db of attenuation and all was fine. Now I am seeing problems on quite a few SD channels. Signal strength oscillates on these channels quite a bit- typically 60-93, but sometimes dropping to 0. In the meantime my motorola SD box has no trouble with these channels.
> 
> So I decided to call TiVo customer service they told me it was a cablecard or signal issue. They didn't like the fact that my cardcards came back as:
> 
> Auth: SUBSCRIBED
> Host Validation: Unknown 00
> Copy Protection Key: Disabled
> 
> Any suggestions on my next step? Should I be calling verizon or TiVo again? I read over the phone hmm52's message about better tuners in new hardware, but the CSR claimed ignorance of this.


Your problems sound very similar to mine. Where is your Verizon home office (VHO) and central office (CO)? Most of the posts on this thread and the FiOS attenuation thread dealt with signals which were too strong - usually local HDs that responded well, and immediately, to attenuation.

What you're seeing on these SD channels is not that. It is most likely a low signal level or at least one that is being tuned as if it is. If signal strength drops below 65 or so, especially with dropouts, you've got a problem - OTA or QAM tiling/pixelation. I'll bet that the weak channels are clustered on 3 or fewer frequencies and they're at the high end, over 650MHz. If you haven't already done so, remove any attenuators and splitters from the cable feeding the TiVo. My FiOS signal has varied a lot in the year and a half with VZ. Pretty good recently. The CSR is probably right, in one way, about the signal causing difficulty; but in my experience the S3 is much more vulnerable to imperfect signals. Check channels on both tuners.

The CSR is wrong IMO about the cablecards being a possibility. Pull both cards out and you'll see exactly the same diagnostics values. The cards weren't designed to fix what the tuners screw up, or can't fix themselves. CSR also wrong about Conditional Access screen info. I'd be surprised if there was a FiOS subscriber anywhere that didn't have the same info which you have. I sure do - on 5 cablecard devices.

You can let Verizon know which channels/frequencies are tiling. But it is unlikely that many in your area are having the same problems, not with the same severity anyway. They may sort it out on their own without your input. They seem to keep the closest eye on the most popular channels; the other way for less popular ones. These SDs are what? There can be as many as 12 SDs on one frequency.

I was promised a new S3 for sometime in May, as a limited supply of them with reworked tuners should be available. I haven't talked to my contact in the exec's office in several weeks. I haven't dealt with TiVo CSRs since March. The person who gave me the info on new S3s available in May was referred to as the "lead tech"; he identified himself as a technical supervisor. I've held off calling because I assume they must have their hands full with more important issues -video freezing/rebooting after 9.3 update. Unfortunately I've seen it twice in the last 24 hours; my S3 tagged 12/27/07. I'll call Tuesday.

In your situation, I would strongly advise against swapping your unit for a refurb. I doubt it would help, and it may well have worse problems. If you do so, better to not give up your original until you're *certain* refurb is OK.


----------



## 21364guy

hmm52 said:


> Your problems sound very similar to mine. Where is your Verizon home office (VHO) and central office (CO)? Most of the posts on this thread and the FiOS attenuation thread dealt with signals which were too strong - usually local HDs that responded well, and immediately, to attenuation.
> 
> What you're seeing on these SD channels is not that. It is most likely a low signal level or at least one that is being tuned as if it is. If signal strength drops below 65 or so, especially with dropouts, you've got a problem - OTA or QAM tiling/pixelation. I'll bet that the weak channels are clustered on 3 or fewer frequencies and they're at the high end, over 650MHz. If you haven't already done so, remove any attenuators and splitters from the cable feeding the TiVo. My FiOS signal has varied a lot in the year and a half with VZ. Pretty good recently. The CSR is probably right, in one way, about the signal causing difficulty; but in my experience the S3 is much more vulnerable to imperfect signals. Check channels on both tuners.
> 
> The CSR is wrong IMO about the cablecards being a possibility. Pull both cards out and you'll see exactly the same diagnostics values. The cards weren't designed to fix what the tuners screw up, or can't fix themselves. CSR also wrong about Conditional Access screen info. I'd be surprised if there was a FiOS subscriber anywhere that didn't have the same info which you have. I sure do - on 5 cablecard devices.
> 
> You can let Verizon know which channels/frequencies are tiling. But it is unlikely that many in your area are having the same problems, not with the same severity anyway. They may sort it out on their own without your input. They seem to keep the closest eye on the most popular channels; the other way for less popular ones. These SDs are what? There can be as many as 12 SDs on one frequency.
> 
> I was promised a new S3 for sometime in May, as a limited supply of them with reworked tuners should be available. I haven't talked to my contact in the exec's office in several weeks. I haven't dealt with TiVo CSRs since March. The person who gave me the info on new S3s available in May was referred to as the "lead tech"; he identified himself as a technical supervisor. I've held off calling because I assume they must have their hands full with more important issues -video freezing/rebooting after 9.3 update. Unfortunately I've seen it twice in the last 24 hours; my S3 tagged 12/27/07. I'll call Tuesday.
> 
> In your situation, I would strongly advise against swapping your unit for a refurb. I doubt it would help, and it may well have worse problems. If you do so, better to not give up your original until you're *certain* refurb is OK.


Thanks for the detailed response. I'm in Howard County Maryland. I will do some further investigation this weekend and report back-- on which SDs and frequencies are most affected.


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## ciucca

Just to update.

I removed the attenuators a few weeks ago and the pixelation issue is gone and has not returned on any channel myself or my family watches. The change for me has coincided with 9.3a. I hope others are seeing the same success.

BTW - My FIOS signal has not changed. I work for them and I have been watching it closely. It is within standards and I know nothing has changed on the operations end . So TIVO must have changed something in their software, although they will not admit it


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## ilh

Lucky you. After 9.3 I dropped down to 10dB attenuators and RS uncorrected errors dramatically increased. I'm back at 16dB which seems to keep them largely in check.


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## richsadams

ciucca said:


> Just to update.
> 
> I removed the attenuators a few weeks ago and the pixelation issue is gone and has not returned on any channel myself or my family watches. The change for me has coincided with 9.3a. I hope others are seeing the same success.
> 
> BTW - My FIOS signal has not changed. I work for them and I have been watching it closely. It is within standards and I know nothing has changed on the operations end . So TIVO must have changed something in their software, although they will not admit it


Good to know. :up: Still, you have to wonder what the changes were and why they helped some, but still not others.


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## ErictheHank

I had pixelation issues back in Sep/Oct and I resolved them by putting 16DB of attenuators on the line. Unfortunately Cox gave us 11 new HD channels a few days ago and apparently that 16DB was enough to completely kill the signal from over half of these new channels. I reduced it down to 10DB which allowed the new channels to come in but then I had a lot of pixelation issues during the Lost season finale last night. For me the pixelation only ever occured on my local HD channels, nothing that is a national feed. Does anyone know if and/or why the signal would stronger from local channels than a national feed? If I find the right person to complain to at Cox is there any chance that they might be able to fix it?


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## hmm52

The signal levels are established by your cable provider. Generally the local HDs are on lower frequencies (not channel #s) and are not uncommonly transmitted at higher levels. The channels new to you are probably on higher frequencies and at a low level - as of the date of your post. Whether they're HD or SD doesn't matter. Your provider has the ability to fix both the high and low level signals. With any luck, they already have.


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## Cue-Ball

How strong does a signal have to be to prevent this pixelation crap?

I'm running my S3 using OTA antenna only. I'm about 10-20 miles from most of the station's sources and, in general, everything is fine. However, at certain times my picture becomes downright unwatchable. There is severe pixelation and the audio constantly drops. It happens fairly often, but about a month ago *really* badly during an episode of The Office, and again last night during American Gladiators. During last night's episode I was actually home and watching almost-live. I went into the signal strength meter and the channel for American Gladiators was in the mid- to high-70's for strength. I checked a few other channels and they were pixelating as well (not as badly, but they still were) even with signal strength in the high-70s to low-80s.

I'm running an AntennaMaster antenna in my attic and I'm fairly close to the broadcast towers getting what I assume are pretty strong signals (70+ strength). Is there something wrong with the Tivo or do I really need an 80+ strength signal for channels to come in without being pixelated?


----------



## SCSIRAID

Cue-Ball said:


> How strong does a signal have to be to prevent this pixelation crap?
> 
> I'm running my S3 using OTA antenna only. I'm about 10-20 miles from most of the station's sources and, in general, everything is fine. However, at certain times my picture becomes downright unwatchable. There is severe pixelation and the audio constantly drops. It happens fairly often, but about a month ago *really* badly during an episode of The Office, and again last night during American Gladiators. During last night's episode I was actually home and watching almost-live. I went into the signal strength meter and the channel for American Gladiators was in the mid- to high-70's for strength. I checked a few other channels and they were pixelating as well (not as badly, but they still were) even with signal strength in the high-70s to low-80s.
> 
> I'm running an AntennaMaster antenna in my attic and I'm fairly close to the broadcast towers getting what I assume are pretty strong signals (70+ strength). Is there something wrong with the Tivo or do I really need an 80+ strength signal for channels to come in without being pixelated?


Typically, the Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) is more important than the signal strength. For OTA ATSC you should be seeing SNR's greater than 20db. Multipath can be even more of an issue than strength/snr issues. You might try rotating the antenna several degrees either way and see if the problem changes.


----------



## hmm52

Cue-Ball said:


> How strong does a signal have to be to prevent this pixelation crap?


As I pointed out to you in March, the signal strength meter is not great for monitoring your signal. It's a rolling average that's best used for positioning & orienting antenna. The value on the diagnostics screen is much more responsive and will show dropouts below 65 during pixelation, despite the peak average being 75,85,95, whatever.

Attics are not great locations for antennas unless the construction is tissue paper and thread. I've now got 2 in third floor but they were *very* carefully aligned & needed to be; each is next to a window; a preamp is used because of cable length. I'm 9 miles from most towers; 63 miles from some received. The two most difficult are 9 miles away.

Inputing your data on antennaweb.org will give you your actual distance to towers in region and a pretty good guess at antenna requirements for channels now and after 2/09 transition. During poor reception times, 3 Sony ATSC tuners haven't done any better than the S3's. Your problem is still the antenna setup, not the TiVo.


----------



## Cue-Ball

hmm52 said:


> As I pointed out to you in March, the signal strength meter is not great for monitoring your signal. It's a rolling average that's best used for positioning & orienting antenna. The value on the diagnostics screen is much more responsive and will show dropouts below 65 during pixelation, despite the peak average being 75,85,95, whatever.


I'll have to check the diagnostics screen, but the signal strength doesn't _seem_ to be dropping.



> Attics are not great locations for antennas unless the construction is tissue paper and thread. I've now got 2 in third floor but they were *very* carefully aligned & needed to be; each is next to a window; a preamp is used because of cable length. I'm 9 miles from most towers; 63 miles from some received. The two most difficult are 9 miles away.


All of the reviews I had read seemed to indicate that a quality antenna with decent line of sight would have no issues with reception, especially at the distances I'm at.



> Inputing your data on antennaweb.org will give you your actual distance to towers in region and a pretty good guess at antenna requirements for channels now and after 2/09 transition. During poor reception times, 3 Sony ATSC tuners haven't done any better than the S3's. Your problem is still the antenna setup, not the TiVo.


I used tvfool.com before I even installed my antenna. The NBC tower (seemingly the most problematic) is only 10 miles away at 200*. My antenna is aimed at 210* to split the difference between stations at 200* and 220*. My house is on top of a large hill and the source signals come from a hill in Seattle so the line of sight seems to be decent.

The most frustrating thing is that I have other stations with sources in the same location that work much better. Also, there are at least four stations that are 2-3X as far away and not facing my antenna that work better. I'll check the diagnostics screen to look for dropouts and see about moving my antenna, but you're the first person I've heard say that they need multiple antennas for such close stations. Most people getting OTA TV seem to get great reception at 20+ miles with a single antenna (or even rabbit ears!).


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## hmm52

Cue-Ball said:


> .... I'll check the diagnostics screen to look for dropouts and see about moving my antenna, but you're the first person I've heard say that they need multiple antennas for such close stations. Most people getting OTA TV seem to get great reception at 20+ miles with a single antenna (or even rabbit ears!).


I didn't mean to recommend what I've got with 2 antennas on 3rd floor. One suitable antenna should be fine in most cases. I've had a Channel Master CM4221 since the turn of the millenium. It didn't work well in 3rd floor when semi casually placed but has been great at ground level on a covered terrace with dense shrubs and tall trees in the way. Go figure. Except one, all local and distant digitals have maintained strong reliable signals. The exception are the WHYY (PBS) digitals for the last several years - long story but well known to those of us north or east of the city.

In advance of one local going back to low VHF-6 and WHYY going from 50 to 12 but not becoming any easier to receive supposedly, I added a VHF capable antenna to the mix and put both in 3rd floor. This time using an LG receiver and small TV on site to check signal strength. I found the signal was extremely sensitive to position and orientation. 1" in placement and a degree of rotation made huge differences in SS. The sweet spots were very few. Neither of these antennas would be anywhere near this sensitive if mounted on roof. Usually 2 antennas are used only when desired broadcasters are spread by many degrees, or perhaps to deal with multipath issues. A hulking monster wasn't installed because it's a large finished space and the CM4221 has been the most reliable piece of HD equipment I've owned.

OTA reception isn't guaranteed. It's vulnerable to sunspots, atmospherics, storms, and broadcasters' transmission parameters. When moving and orienting the antenna in attic, maximize your weakest signal, then check the second weakest, and so on.


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## hmm52

If so, I nominate myself.

I've held some mistaken assumptions and posted them before (the derivation of Verizon's analogs for example). I stumbled onto a larger one last night that goes back to original install of S3 in February. Should have known better as early on _richsadams_ pointed out that TiVo tuners are very sensitive and it seemed clear to me that diagnostics screen values reflect how well or poorly the tuner is doing its job rather than being a measure of the raw signal itself. My S3 has had tiling/pixelation or no tune on 55 channels mostly on tuner 0, depending on the Verizon feed, though not more than 40 at a time including 8 local HDs. From mid March until a week ago problems were limited to 15-20 rarely watched SDs and 2 HDs all on tuner 0. These channels have never been usable on tuner 0, 2/2 - 6/15/08.

Verizon's feed the last 8 days greatly expanded the tuning issues: tiling on all local HDs through S3's and Toshiba TV's tuners; no tune on 2 premium HDs tuner 1; no tune on 10 premium HDs tuner 0; SDs not intially checked. Worse yet, both ESPN HDs were lost tuner 0 and through one of the Sony DVRs (seen only once before in 2.5 years of use). Attention required regardless of near zero free time.

A Permacolor distribution amplifier has been retained in antenna setup for many years. Though not highly regarded, it has adjustable gain and has helped with the one difficult nearby station; other signals being in high 80s to high 90s with it in place. The antenna distribution amp, the S3, and the local Verizon feed were not a good combination. Disconnection of antenna feed brought all missing channels back without pixelation, including the ones that have never been right on tuner 0. (jackass award?). Tiling remained on all the locals however. - 2 different problems and not simply one of too high and too low signal levels as I had thought.

Disconnection of antenna coax also brought about an immediate failure that I had seldom seen formerly - info overlay freeze, unresponsiveness to any command but continued video for a minute or so, black screen, reboot - on all the channels tried that had been no tune or heavily tiled previously. Great! A swap of one hellacious problem for another one. Toxic channel syndrome? Upon reboot it was nearly impossible to input quickly enough. Finally getting into diagnostics screen for one such channel, I saw the SS was pegged at 100, SNR at 37. These channels had shown very low values before; sometimes nothing at all registered while tuning switched in and out of QAM 64.

Adding 14db attenuation at cable input brought instant relief from this behaviour and yielded a clean stable tune, though with signal strength of 54. A single 8db attenuator brought the same benefit with SS of 86 and SNR of 33. Every channel checked thereafter on tuner 0 was fine. As a bonus all local HDs are also free of tiling on both tuner 0 & 1.

I 'd certainly get it wrong if I tried to analyze the interaction between the OTA distribution amp, the Verizon feed, and the S3. I would suggest to be very careful with antenna setups, and *assume nothing*. Based on my experience anyway, it's worth trying attenuation of cable feed if you're suffering with the freeze & reboot cycle with an S3 regardless of the rest of your setup - particularly if your lockup is relieved by detachment of cable coax.

FOLLOW UP -- No change since last night. RS Corrected values accumulate on former problem channels, including locals. RS uncorrected stay at 0 except for the worst previous , Starz HD, which accumulated some RS Uncorrected in 6.5 hour stretch. NO FREEZE & REBOOTS OBSERVED ON PROBLEM CHANNELS where they had been certainties within minutes before addition of attenuator. All channels on both tuners are stable & good. A first.


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## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> <snip> Adding 14db attenuation at cable input brought instant relief from this behaviour and yielded a clean stable tune, though with signal strength of 54. A single 8db attenuator brought the same benefit with SS of 86 and SNR of 33. Every channel checked thereafter on tuner 0 was fine. As a bonus all local HDs are also free of tiling on both tuner 0 & 1. <snip>
> 
> FOLLOW UP -- No change since last night. RS Corrected values accumulate on former problem channels, including locals. RS uncorrected stay at 0 except for the worst previous , Starz HD, which accumulated some RS Uncorrected in 6.5 hour stretch. NO FREEZE & REBOOTS OBSERVED ON PROBLEM CHANNELS where they had been certainties within minutes before addition of attenuator. All channels on both tuners are stable & good. A first.


Excellent post...with the exception of giving credit to some yokel that posts here waaayyy too much. 

Taking things for granted, particularly relying on existing cables, equipment that's "always been good before", etc. has gotten me in hot water more than once. Now when things go south I try to take a step-by-step approach to every item in the chain, no matter how insignificant before I declare war on any one piece of CE's.

I'm keeping a lot of the attenuator info like yours JIC. When we connect to FIOS sometime next month (maybe/hopefully), I want to be prepared! Thanks for that. :up:


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## hmm52

Yeah, I'm a jackass for living with the problem for so long while I knew the distribution amp should be considered suspect. It was on the list but relegated to the time of making antenna changes before next February. Brain lockup. All it would have taken was ant. coax disconnect. The info has been in this forum in several places and I've counseled others to be cautious about boosting signals, on both the antenna and cable sides. My gut feeling was that moderate boost on the OTA side wouldn't cause havoc on the QAM side. Wrong. It actually made very strong signals appear very weak - no tune or heavy pixelation; very low or non existant values on diagnostics screen. Now I know why there were very few posting about a split as I had, seemingly - too high and too low signals. They were all too high.

My S3 is much more vulnerable to off signals than the other equipment I have. Nothing else tiles to the severity and quantity of channels that it does. And I've certainly never seen anything else lockup, freeze and reboot in response to Verizon's poorer efforts. But it can be simply remedied with just attenuation ( and dist. amp removal) so I can easily live with that. In an effort to stop any RS Uncorrected accumulation on _every_ channel (Starz HD), I added a 3db attenuator to the 8db- OCD to the bitter end. Channels checked now have SS fluctuating from low 60s to mid 70s and SNR at 31/32db. All OK. 8db clipped into Toshiba feed for locals; all OK there too.

--------------- I'm very curious if attenuation puts a stop to the lockup, freeze, reboot syndrome for other S3 owners as well - the one where a coax disconnect frees up the machine. Though I hadn't seen it much before with dist. amp in place, it happened every time upon reboot without it. The benefit of then adding attenuator was immediate and obvious. I doubt my VZ signals will get much worse than they are currently (crossed fingers) and I've still got a bag of attenuators left over. So anybody stuck in a seriously repetitive lockup, freeze, reboot cycle with their S3 is more than welcome to try some that I have.

In truth it was the severity of the problems caused by VZ's signal recently which finally caused me to check the ant. dist amp's influence. With Wimbledon a week away, even one of the Sonys was struggling with the ESPN HDs (nothing else). They're the backups. Not tolerable. I'll probably do a quick check of the recently manufactured S3 when it arrives, then send it back. I didn't really want to lose or copy the recordings anyway; now at around 850GB. The people that contacted me from the TiVo exec.'s office have been a pleasure to work with. It's unfortunate that all who have issues with their TiVos don't generally have the same access.


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## hmm52

I left out many details because my posts run too long with limited info. There are some curious things about the channel signals which caused the lockup, video freeze, then reboot. They seem to be in a different category than the 8 local HDs, as they also had seemed before disconnection of ant. distribution amp. When they displayed without attenuator for a minute or so until reboot, there wasn't any pixelation. Their diagnostics showed SS & SNR fixed at 100 & 37 unlike the locals which fluctuate wildly. I doubt the local HDs without attenuator would cause freeze and reboot. I'll test this as I don't mind experimenting - not with the ant. dist. amp again however.


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## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> I doubt the local HDs without attenuator would cause freeze and reboot. I'll test this as I don't mind experimenting - not with the ant. dist. amp again however.


Looking forward to the results. :up:


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## lateknight

So I had been experiencing tiling only on Comedy Central and Discovery (which meant I was missing Dirty Jobs and Futurama...unacceptable). Turns out that I had a signal strength of 45 and Uncorrected errors in the tens of thousands on those channels. Looking down my coax lines it turns out that I had a cheap splitter that was causing the problem. I took it out and signal strength is 98-100. No more tiling! Plus all my other channels look much better. Thanks for all the info guys!


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## richsadams

lateknight said:


> So I had been experiencing tiling only on Comedy Central and Discovery (which meant I was missing Dirty Jobs and Futurama...unacceptable). Turns out that I had a signal strength of 45 and Uncorrected errors in the tens of thousands on those channels. Looking down my coax lines it turns out that I had a cheap splitter that was causing the problem. I took it out and signal strength is 98-100. No more tiling! Plus all my other channels look much better. Thanks for all the info guys!


Good news and perhaps valuable info for others. :up:


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## heel5man

I am a newbie to Tivo. I purchased a Series 3 HD and a HD model. Charter Cable came out today and with a typically bad attitude and poor execution only ended up getting 1 out of 4 requested cable cards installed. They showed up with 2 and one of them "didn't work."

The good news is that all of the channels I pay for are coming in. The bad news is that I get a picture and audio that "skip" quite often, seemingly on most HD channels including locals from cable.

In looking through the forums, the troubleshooting that I could understand, I did. This included restarting the unit. When that didn't fix it, I unplugged the power and coax which also hasn't helped. I tried calling Tivo support and the rep who was very nice told me that I had a "known issue" for which Tivo would be releasing an update for in the next week. I wanted to believe him, but after reading these forums I am doubtful.

So here I am, looking for some help. I understand the stats from the Cable Card are important in diagnosis, so here they are:


Tuner: 0
Current Tuning Status: Not Tuned: General Tune Error?
Channel -
(all else blank)

Tuner 1
Modulation: QAM 256
Frequency: 675000 KHz
SNR: 37 dB
RS Uncorrected: 0
RSCorrected: 31905 (and rising rapidly as I type)

CableCard: 2
Module State: Not Inserted (waiting on Charter to come back with a good one)

CableCARd: 1
Module State: Operating Normally
OOB Frequency: 75250 KHz
OOB data Rate: 2048 Kbps
OOB SNR: fluctuating between 20 and 22 dB

I have no idea what ANY of these stats mean, so I would really appreciate some interpretation and troubleshooting advice.


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## SCSIRAID

heel5man said:


> I am a newbie to Tivo. I purchased a Series 3 HD and a HD model. Charter Cable came out today and with a typically bad attitude and poor execution only ended up getting 1 out of 4 requested cable cards installed. They showed up with 2 and one of them "didn't work."
> 
> The good news is that all of the channels I pay for are coming in. The bad news is that I get a picture and audio that "skip" quite often, seemingly on most HD channels including locals from cable.
> 
> In looking through the forums, the troubleshooting that I could understand, I did. This included restarting the unit. When that didn't fix it, I unplugged the power and coax which also hasn't helped. I tried calling Tivo support and the rep who was very nice told me that I had a "known issue" for which Tivo would be releasing an update for in the next week. I wanted to believe him, but after reading these forums I am doubtful.
> 
> So here I am, looking for some help. I understand the stats from the Cable Card are important in diagnosis, so here they are:
> 
> Tuner: 0
> Current Tuning Status: Not Tuned: General Tune Error?
> Channel -
> (all else blank)
> 
> Tuner 1
> Modulation: QAM 256
> Frequency: 675000 KHz
> SNR: 37 dB
> RS Uncorrected: 0
> RSCorrected: 31905 (and rising rapidly as I type)
> 
> CableCard: 2
> Module State: Not Inserted (waiting on Charter to come back with a good one)
> 
> CableCARd: 1
> Module State: Operating Normally
> OOB Frequency: 75250 KHz
> OOB data Rate: 2048 Kbps
> OOB SNR: fluctuating between 20 and 22 dB
> 
> I have no idea what ANY of these stats mean, so I would really appreciate some interpretation and troubleshooting advice.


With a 37db SNR I would guess that you are overloaded and need some attenuation. Suggest 3-6db attenuation.


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## esb1981

I've had pixelation return a few weeks ago after not having any on channels I watch for some time. What happened is Cox added a few new HD channels - unfortunately they are virtually unwatchable due to the pixelation. But I've found an interesting common thread with some of the pixelation I've had in the past -- it's the frequencies the channels are carried on. In the past, I had trouble on a couple (thought not all) channels carried on frequencies between 645 MHz and 689 MHz. The pixelation disappeared, but this was because the channels were moved to other frequencies. Sure enough, the new HD channels are on those frequencies.

So now with the pixelation back on the new channels, I am wondering if this means there is some problem with interference at those frequencies. I've replaced all of my cabling and connections that go from the basement to the Tivo. There is only one piece of cable that goes to a separate TV that has not been replaced. Is it possible that the interference is happening because the tuners inside the Tivo are not shielded well? Is there a way to better shield them? Any thoughts?


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## hmm52

Until I caught it, I did have pixelation caused by amplified OTA feed bleeding through tuner 0 QAM tuning. I don't know what the separation is between ATSC and QAM tuning but it wasn't enough to prevent this from happening - on one tuner only. I still use a preamp with antenna but have antenuators at both cable and antenna inputs. All is well.

I've only seen pixelation matched to specific frequencies. It has affected other devices besides TiVo similarly and on the same channels, but to a lesser degree. Other than what I noted above, it's always been the signal quality as delivered by Verizon. Attenuators don't eliminate your pixelation?


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## esb1981

Thanks for the response - that does support my theory to some extent, I guess. Attenuators help with the pixelation, but depending on the severity of the specific channel they don't completely eliminate it. I've had issues pop up in the past and been able to eliminate the pixelation with the attenuators, but no such luck this time. Right now I have it attenuated down as far as I can without losing other channels due to low signal, the pixelation is still severe on a couple channels. I don't have an antenna in play, so it can't be that. I do know there is an HD VHF station about 8 miles away that I can pick up with a coathanger, but that's obviously a much lower frequency than the 650-700 where I'm having the problems. A while back I used a plastic terminator to cover the antenna-in connector on the Tivo, but that didn't help.


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## hmm52

No offense, but your experience is exactly the type I'd rather not hear of. I had the same problem in February when sufficient attenuation for local HDs clipped many other channels too much - low signal pixelation and signal dropouts. Hookup antenna. Then 3 months of good signals - no attenuators or antenna needed. One month kind of bad mostly for locals around analog dropping time. Catastrophic periods were July/August & November last year. I would be surprised if there isn't something similar with coming channel additions. When all else fails, pour yourself a drink, call Verizon and tell them to get there sh*t together.


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## esb1981

Yeah, believe me, I've long since resorted to the pouring on a drink to get me through this! And I've felt all along that it's Cox's fault in their signals, but figured maybe I had suddenly discovered something. I just don't know if I have the energy to deal with them - have another tech come out and claim he's testing the signal and then tell me there's nothing wrong.


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## hmm52

There is another way. It requires a mental adjustment however--

When things got seriously awful on the bedroom Toshiba last year, I dropped the thought of watching TV on it altogether. (The Sonys were mostly fine) I turned on the Toshiba just to see my own in house work of art worthy of the MOMA - possibly titled "Explosion of Digital Mosaics" circa 2007. I don't remember what stimulant/depressant I used to bend my mind around on this issue. It got be by though. 

After weeks of crap, it all cleared overnight. Central Ofiice problems supposedly. Many COs were out of sorts at that time though. Looking into it later, my perspective was that percentage complaining was too low. Passive customers get what in return? Sometimes electronic art.


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## harkov

I've been having pixelation problems with my local HD channels for the last week. This problem has not effected any of my other HD channels, but has made the locals unwatchable.


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## richsadams

We had that happen one time and it turned out to be a cableco issue. Most (all?) cableco's run local channels within a certain frequency range and if things get out of whack some or all of the channels in that range display problems. It took them a day or so after the tech left but eventually they got things cleared up (said something about changes that were accidentally made at the "head end" ) I'd ring them up and see if they can't get things straightened out for you.

Good luck and let us know what you find out.


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## hmm52

Hey Rich,

Long time, no direct replies. You a FiOS customer yet? I've been pretty inactive on the TCF recently as there's been a zillion things going on in my life (mostly good to great thankfully). Not much TV watching but I'm very curious how 9.4 pans out just the same.

I have a small quibble with your previous post here. Did you mean to say that it is a frequency range problem? In my experience and in the read of others in this thread, the local HDs are the most common offenders regardless of what range they occupy on the spectrum. Just above and just below are fine while the locals are semi-chronic pixelators. I've needed to use attenuators here since 1st or 2nd week of June, only for the locals. Antenna would have worked also for them except for other local problem - forecasts of heavy storms each night during endless heat wave. Choose one feed's channels or another's and stay with it. I have the sense that cableco.s (Verizon) tend to juice the local HDs.

Maybe few care much about the S3 lockup and THD freeze issues now other than whether 9.4 or a new HDD offers a solution. I'm still curious as to what is/was going on as my S3 was prone to it an average of once per week. From what I observed with mine, you gave the most plausible explanation awhile back (can't find it of course).

I don't know squat about computers but corrupted data in the buffer stongly seemed at fault. The one time I was able to stay in the contaminated sliding buffer, I saw the 10% corrupted section over and over again - Think of "A Clockwork Orange" indoctrination sequence. Once 30 minutes had elapsed, real time was rejoined and all was well. No reboot. every freeze/lockup/reboot I have witnessed has exactly coincided with TV turn on. During 8 & 10 hour recordings of Wimbledon, no problems as long as TV completely on or off throughout Two consecutive days with turning on to check - lockup and reboot. I think there were signai issues which didn't manifest as pixelation but did make the S3 vulnerable to lockup. When a transient event happened, even with component video hookup, a freeze was triggered. I have no idea what the transient could be with CV hookup, but the symptoms suggest this. Early this week I held off reboot after first lockup symptoms arrived. But all recordings were inaccessible; something like "recording failed as no signal was present". Reboot and all was OK, live and recorded. The corrupted buffer had also interfered with recording playback. Reboots, manual and automatic, seem to be the TiVo's bulldozer method of purging the bad buffer. I know my theory's simplistic. Any thoughts? No bad behavior since 9.4 a few nights ago.

------I rarely have the S3 recording 2 channels at once so I don't know what it's capable of. I didn't know it was capable of this: Tennis recording on one tuner. Time slipping Keith Obermann on other tuner. Scheduled recording channel change message appears just before 9:00. Select OK to change channels, so both tuners are recording tennis from 9:00 on. But with MSNBC buffer I am *still* able to watch final 10 minutes of K.O.mann. At end of same, video switches to *beginning* of that tuner's tennis program. Very cool. The Sony DVRs could *never* pull off something like that. A channel change means a channel change; buffer be gone. Is this new with 9.4 or was this capability always there?


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## richsadams

Hey there...long time no hear! You didn't miss a lot...same problems (for the most part), different day. Glad to hear that good things are coming your way.

We're not on FIOS...yet The last person I saw in an orange vest climbing back into a Verizon truck said everything was done in our little neighborhood as far as she was concerned. I'm wondering when they will let us in. Hopefully their billing dept. will improve by then...yeah, right. 

My SWAG about why v9.3x caused so many folks problems was that it was due to an O/S change which demanded more of TiVo's hard drives than it could handle; specifically the meager 2MB cache. Many folks could unplug their coax or avoid HD programming and everything was okay. The high throughput might have been the culprit. Replacing the OEM drive with an off-the-shelf model (almost all of which come with 8 to 32MB of cache) always seemed to resolve things. Pure speculation on my part though.

The good news is...so far it seems that v9.4 has addressed the video freeze and IIRC S3 lock-up/reboot issues. Woo hoo! I doubt if this upgrade is perfect either, but so far, so good. One thing I've noticed, and it's probably just my imagination, but I think my HD PQ is better since v9.4!  I have no explanation as to why that might be, and again, it may be that I'm just seeing things, but it seems like the picture is clearer and brighter than before. We hardly watch any SD programs, so can't say if they look better too, but maybe I'll have a look later.

Agreed that the local HD channels are the worst offenders when it comes to macroblocking, etc. We've experienced that, particularly with the NBC affiliate. They suffered some serious A/V issues for a while. Seems that it's better now. My understanding was that most or all of the local broadcast stations would be found in a particular frequency band within the cableco's signal. My guesstimate was that if the OP was seeing _only_ local HD problems that it was likely a cableco issue and not his or her TiVo as that was our experience once (and the source of the frequency info), but there could well be another explanation.

Your description of the video freeze when your TV was on/off immediately made me think it was an HDMI handshake issue, but if the same thing happened with component connections that shoots my theory down. I guess the only other way to see if it's your TV or TiVo causing the problem would be to hook up another TV to see if you can replicate it. What a pain! Again, according to a number of other posts here and there it would seem that v9.4 has taken care of a lot of those kinds of issues. Fingers crossed.

I'm not sure about the channel switching you speak of. I remember someone (TiVoJerry?) saying that the next upgrade (which would be v9.4) would let TiVo continue recording on the same channel if the next scheduled recording was on that channel...whereas before it would switch tuners. I do have instances of that programmed (NBC nightly news immediately followed by the local news for instance), but I'll have to wait until Monday to see if it works. It was an annoying "bug" of sorts when it did that before so I'll be happy if they kept their word.

Good to hear from you and keep the posts coming! :up:


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## hmm52

I should clarify some things in my post.

Having used 5 cablecard devices for a long time, it is easy for me to separate signal feed and TiVo problems. In my experience, pixelation is absolutely the fault of the cableco's feed (Verizon). TiVos are more vulnerable than most devices to it, but the catastrophic times were with a Toshiba TV long before I bought the S3. If the signal tolerances were more closely maintained, there would be no pixelation on either the Toshiba or S3 - w/o attenuators. Fortunately this is usually the case and this year has been *much* better than last year. Fingers crossed...

I referred to my suspicion of signal errors/problems which don't result in pixelation but may factor in freeze/reboots cycles. Twice this Spring I noticed something odd with the two ESPN HDs. Twice for 10 - 30 minutes at a time, they were untunable by the S3 and 2 Sony DVRs. But they were easily tuned by the Sony and Toshiba TVs throughout these periods. It was as if ESPN was testing out a message, "we don't want you time slipping or recording our programming". No other channels, including their SDs, behaved this way then or ever. When my S3 has locked up, it has usually been on one of these 2 channels, both non-pixelators. Coincidence?

Regarding the TV turn on transient, it is hard to test because lockups are somewhat rare and I don't have a spare TV that's easily moved or feel like moving the TiVo. S Video out is a possibility (Ugh), I guess. The first post 9.4 reboot occurred yesterday; 15 minute cycling with green screen. I suppose both HDDs are suspect because the 750gb Seagate is mentioned often in earlier S3 lockup posts. Once or even twice a week reboots won't kill me. Yeah, I'm lazy. These are entertainment machines. No?

Last week I was amazed that the S3 allowed watching the buffer to the end from one channel while scheduled recordings were taking place on 2 other channels - MSNBC, ESPN2HD, and the Tennis Channel. 10 minutes of buffer remained from MSNBC when its tuner switched to the Tennis Channel at 9:00PM. When finished with MSNBC at 9:10PM, the display turned back to the beginning of the TC program - 9:00 PM. So essentially the S3 was buffering/recording 2 channels while holding the buffer of a third. I have not seen this before on any DVR. The Sonys drop the buffer immediately upon channel change (one tuner & up to 90 minutes of buffer). I had thought the TiVos did the same thing.


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## gwsat

hmm52 said:


> So essentially the S3 was buffering/recording 2 channels while holding the buffer of a third. I have not seen this before on any DVR. The Sonys drop the buffer immediately upon channel change (one tuner & up to 90 minutes of buffer). I had thought the TiVos did the same thing.


Recently, I noticed that my S3 was holding the buffer of a channel I was watching, although 2 other programs had started to record on other channels. I was grateful but did not realize that it was that big a deal.


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## hmm52

gwsat said:


> Recently, I noticed that my S3 was holding the buffer of a channel I was watching, although 2 other programs had started to record on other channels. I was grateful but did not realize that it was that big a deal.


If you had been exclusively using HD DVRs for TV since October 2005 but had never seen this ability before, it would be a big deal. Maybe it was always so with the S3, but I just never noticed. Rarely do I use the two tuners for simultaneous recording. Rarer still is the time slip buffering with scheduled recording offset situation.

I'm glad to know it exists so I don't have to rush through a buffered program on the free tuner before a recording begins; or set the first up for programmed recording at the last minute.- Not difficult; just inconvenient and distracting.


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## gwsat

hmm52 said:


> If you had been exclusively using HD DVRs for TV since October 2005 but had never seen this ability before, it would be a big deal. Maybe it was always so with the S3, but I just never noticed. Rarely do I use the two tuners for simultaneous recording. Rarer still is the time slip buffering with scheduled recording offset situation.
> 
> I'm glad to know it exists so I don't have to rush through a buffered program on the free tuner before a recording begins; or set the first up for programmed recording at the last minute.- Not difficult; just inconvenient and distracting.


My first DVR was a TiVo S1, which I bought in 2000. My first HD DVR was a Scientific Atlanta SA8000HD, which Cox OKC first made available in 2004. Later, Cox upgraded those to the 8300HD model. I still have one of them on my other HDTV but hate to use it because its SARA software is so awful. Anyway, until recently, I had no idea that the S3 would retain an already accumulated buffer, despite recordings having started on both tuners.


----------



## hmm52

Despite the occasional challenges of pixelation and lockups, the S3 has a lot of nice features and is really the only DVR I've used since February. Little things make a difference. The 2 Sonys are still plugged in and receiving guide data but they are there for archived stuff and as backups for important programs. Makes more sense to unplug them, spare the HDDs and 24/7 28 watt-hours each, then do manual recordings using TiVo or online guides. Wasteful as mostly idle backups. Since 2/4/08 I've only missed one full recording with the S3, and two partials when turning on the TV caused lockups; recording automatically resumed after reboot on one of those. Not bad for 6 months.

The Sonys do have more flexibility in basic recording, playback, and display functions; and are much more robust in handling off signals than the S3. The single tuners and 250gb storage limitations are killers with HD though. They're somewhat sluggish to any command and guide/menu navigation. Plus the guide itself can be fragile. Not wise to count on a long discontinued product forever.

Best combination would be the interest/commitment of Tivo and the solvency/resources of Sony with cable technology at maturity. Outside of that, I hope TiVo Inc. can maintain the balance between reliability and features while dealing with the vagaries of the cable industry. I've never used a cable company box of any kind and wouldn't consider what Verizon is offering now.


----------



## richsadams

hmm52 said:


> ...I hope TiVo Inc. can maintain the balance between reliability and features while dealing with the vagaries of the cable industry.


Wow!  I have never heard it put so well! Here, here! :up:


----------



## hmm52

Rich,

Thanks for the enthusiastic comment, but I think I jinxed myself with recent posts. The local FiOS signals have been off but manageable since June 7th or 14th. Mostly just local HDs. With 14db att. at S3, 8db at Toshiba, no worries. Until yesterday. 8db at Tosh now not enough - locals and others. Not a good sign at 2 months or so and counting. S3 still fine at 14db. Spare attenuators lent to NJ TCF member a month ago.

With large package of channels yet to come, I think I might be in the long trough before the ravine. Frustrating because it's clear Verizon can deliver a high quality feed on a pretty consistent basis. Then the sour periods. It would be nice to know the reasons for them, and how much attention they give to the matter.

Heck


----------



## richsadams

Hang in there...it sounds like VZ's tech expertiese is considerably better than their billing dept. Do you call them every time something goes south or do you just say a prayer and hope for the best? Just curious as to what we might expect when and if they ever decide to activate the lines they recently burrowed under our front yard.


----------



## hmm52

Rich,

My signal problems are so easy to address with attenuation or antenna now that I don't bother calling. If a serious split develops between high and low level signals, then I will have to call a lot - as in July and November last year.

You're right to say that Verizon has the expertise to fix it. Even here with the obsolete equipment at my CO, and far from a stellar VHO, they can find the remedy to catastrophic feeds within 24 - 36 hours. The difficulty is in getting them to *use* their expertise. As I posted earlier in another thread today, it takes a visit from a top tech or "Big Boss" to push the matter to where it needs to go, in my experience. So I've had to endure a series of service calls and home appointments before resolution. "Inefficient" would be the euphemistic word for the process. The timing of top tech visits and resolution were not a coincidence. The calls and appointments had to be made.

On the other hand it is clear that many FiOS TV customers have not seen one tile yet and won't this year, the next, or the year after that. It's not possible that your CO will have the antiquated equipment mine has - and an in house ONT to match same. No way will you be served by VHO8, and that is a *very* good thing. As one of my California nephews would say, "No worries".

It would be good if TCF posters using FiOS would list the area in their profile. Better yet, their VHO and CO. Easier to see patterns if they're there to see.

Prayer is reserved for the upcoming addition of channels challenge.

I probably shouldn't say this but Verizon has had network problems which I mostly associated with copper wiring and analog signals. I was thinking of underground burial for the aesthetics but passed on it. So how much rain do you get out there? A lot of it at one time? You good with a shovel?

Good luck, but you probably won't need it. (except for billing)

Heck


----------



## richsadams

Rain? Um, that's what they get in Seattle. By comparison we're in the sun belt here. Ha!  Have shovel, will dig, no worries.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes though. Can't wait for the "big pipe" broadband for down/up loads as well as the reportedly improved TV PQ in SD and HD!


----------



## JasonMowry

I posted another thread in this forum for a survey I created to find out how widespread this pixelation issue has been:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6561977#post6561977

Please take a look and help me measure the degree of troubles that the TiVo community has experienced with this issue. Thanks.


----------



## sundaydrive

Nice to have a place to come and try to figure out some fixes. I just had Fios installed Friday and am having horrible pixelation issues on several channels. Once I get home tonight I will check the diagnostics and see what my signal looks like.

Thanks guys.

Curt


----------



## richsadams

sundaydrive said:


> Nice to have a place to come and try to figure out some fixes. I just had Fios installed Friday and am having horrible pixelation issues on several channels. Once I get home tonight I will check the diagnostics and see what my signal looks like.
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> Curt


Hey Curt...welcome to the forum. :up: Please let us know how things go...if you have to have the signal attenuated, etc. Verizon installed the FO cables and equipment here in Lake Oswego about 45 days ago and I'm waiting to get their sales pitch. I'd like to jump ship (Comcast) but am still a bit nervous about things. I'd really like to know how the "local" VZ folks handle these issues. TIA!


----------



## webin

sundaydrive said:


> I just had Fios installed Friday and am having horrible pixelation issues on several channels. Once I get home tonight I will check the diagnostics and see what my signal looks like.


Welcome aboard Curt! If I go outside and yell real loud, will you hear me?

I'd definitely start with some attenuation on the line, maybe get the SmartHome attenuator pack. I'd be curios to know if you "solve" your issues with the same amount of attenuation I do (6dB). Also, can we assume you are using a TivoHD?

Edit: If it turns out that 6db is the right amount for you, it could be an indicator that the "hot" signal is the same across small geographic areas, maybe what comes from the local head-end. (this would, of course, be muddled by house-specific factors like number of splitters and quality of coax).


----------



## sundaydrive

I had the service guy out this morning and he took a look at some things. When he checked the signal, it was 'very high' and he started adding attenuators. None of the ones he attached fixed it, but he was probably shooting for the +5 realm, which according to info here is still high. Once the attenuators didn't work he said 'It's your Tivo' and left.

And yes I am using HD Tivo. Channel 512 is giving me fits which means I miss Terminator and House unless I watch just plain 12...../shudder =^)

Curt


----------



## webin

Yea.... 512 is the worst for me, too... followed by 506. But with my attenuation, they are both watchable 95&#37; of the time.


----------



## markpickett

I've been having intermittent pixelation for the past week, mostly on HD channels, but sometimes on SD channels, too.

I've had my Tivo HD for almost a year, but this problem is new. I've had the same wiring setup for all that time. I've got one splitter between the Tivo and the wall, since my cable modem is in the same room. The TV with cable box in the other room never has pixelation, so I don't think it's the signal. I've checked the diagnostics, and I've got a signal strength of 42, and SNR of 27 dB. These stats are the same whether I've got pixelation or not. I've got a Motorola M-card, if that matters.

Do you know what could be causing it? Thanks!


----------



## webin

My guess (completely unfounded and based only on observations and a rudimentary knowledge of electronics), is that the signal arriving at the tivo is "leaking" and causing RF interference inside the tivo box, possibly in the cable card.

But we are still trying to figure it out.


----------



## sundaydrive

Ok, here is what Diag shows me. Both channels have varying levels of pixelation.

Cable Card 1 (channel 510)
Signal Str: 100
SNR: 36-38
RSU: Stays at zero
RSC: 802 after 5 minutes on channel

Cable card 2 (Channel 512)
Signal Str: 93-100
SNR: 31-36
RSU: 5056
RSC: 188064 after 10 min on channel

Channel 512 (Fox HD) is my worst by far. I will look for parts to attenuate the signal this weekend and give it a try.

I feel that having to do this is totally unacceptable. Something like a Tivo should have the same ability to translate a signal as the stupid STB that Verizon wants to rent to me, especially for the price I paid for this thing.

Curt


----------



## ciucca

sundaydrive said:


> Ok, here is what Diag shows me. Both channels have varying levels of pixelation.
> 
> Cable Card 1 (channel 510)
> Signal Str: 100
> SNR: 36-38
> RSU: Stays at zero
> RSC: 802 after 5 minutes on channel
> 
> Cable card 2 (Channel 512)
> Signal Str: 93-100
> SNR: 31-36
> RSU: 5056
> RSC: 188064 after 10 min on channel
> 
> Channel 512 (Fox HD) is my worst by far. I will look for parts to attenuate the signal this weekend and give it a try.
> 
> I feel that having to do this is totally unacceptable. Something like a Tivo should have the same ability to translate a signal as the stupid STB that Verizon wants to rent to me, especially for the price I paid for this thing.
> 
> Curt


Buy the attenuator pack from smart home. Then keeping adding until the problem disappears. I had to add -16db to get it to be stable.


----------



## markpickett

Would an attenuator fix my problem, too? I've got a signal strength in the low 40s. Would attenuating the signal decrease the signal stregth?


----------



## ursa99

markpickett said:


> Would an attenuator fix my problem, too? I've got a signal strength in the low 40s. Would attenuating the signal decrease the signal stregth?


Yes, attenuation will decrease your signal. Having said that, with a signal in the low 40's, I'm surprised you get a picture at all. Chances are if your signal is breaking up (you didn't state what your problem was) that you need to actually increase your signal. First check all your cables and insure they are all tight and are properly terminated. Otherwise I'd call your cable Co. for a visit as your signal strength seems very low...I don't think attenuation is an option to pursue.


----------



## richsadams

markpickett said:


> Would an attenuator fix my problem, too? I've got a signal strength in the low 40s. Would attenuating the signal decrease the signal stregth?


Agree with Ursa99...I'm surprised that you're seeing anything at all with a SS of 40. You need a stronger signal and attenuation will result in a weaker one.


----------



## markpickett

ursa99 said:


> Yes, attenuation will decrease your signal. Having said that, with a signal in the low 40's, I'm surprised you get a picture at all. Chances are if your signal is breaking up (you didn't state what your problem was) that you need to actually increase your signal. First check all your cables and insure they are all tight and are properly terminated. Otherwise I'd call your cable Co. for a visit as your signal strength seems very low...I don't think attenuation is an option to pursue.


Thanks for the info. I gave the details in a previous post. My problem is intermittent pixelation and sound cutting out. It's only been happening for the past week, and I've noticed that it happens around the same time each night and gets better around the same time. The strange thing is that the signal strength and SNR numbers are the same when I have a picture and when I don't.


----------



## richsadams

markpickett said:


> The strange thing is that the signal strength and SNR numbers are the same when I have a picture and when I don't.


Really not strange at all...your signal is borderline and you're lucky to be seeing anything. Most of the time TiVo will be "all in" or "all out". It sounds like it's doing its level best to produce A/V at all.

The variations at the same time every day are another clue to a signal problem. As suggested, a review of all of the cables, etc. is in order but with that second data point a call to your cableco will most likely get things resolved.


----------



## V7Goose

sundaydrive said:


> Ok, here is what Diag shows me. Both channels have varying levels of pixelation.
> 
> Cable Card 1 (channel 510)
> Signal Str: 100
> SNR: 36-38
> RSU: Stays at zero
> RSC: 802 after 5 minutes on channel
> 
> Cable card 2 (Channel 512)
> Signal Str: 93-100
> SNR: 31-36
> RSU: 5056
> RSC: 188064 after 10 min on channel
> 
> Channel 512 (Fox HD) is my worst by far. I will look for parts to attenuate the signal this weekend and give it a try.
> 
> I feel that having to do this is totally unacceptable. Something like a Tivo should have the same ability to translate a signal as the stupid STB that Verizon wants to rent to me, especially for the price I paid for this thing.
> 
> Curt


Your error counts are showing you that you have a signal problem, and it is not the strength if the signal. IMHO all this "hot signal" and "attenuation" stuff is a red herring! You will find that all the good channels have 0 error counts, both corrected AND uncorrected almost all the time. If you don't have one of their STBs, get one for as long as it takes to make them fix this problem. Use the diagnostics screen to show that even their own equipment is having signal errors. See more info in my posts in these threads:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6580907#post6580907
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315826&page=35

I agree with you that it is ridiculous that such an expensive piece of equipment as an S3 or HD TiVo cannot correct signal errors as well as the cable company STBs, but that is a different issue. The errors should NOT be there in the first place. Error correction should only have to deal with an occasional signal glitch, not a constantly bad signal. Verizon will find and fix the problem, but only after you PROVE to them it is not your equipment, then yell and escalate until someone high enough kicks them and forces them to do their job. Good luck!
Goose


----------



## richsadams

V7Goose said:


> <snip> Error correction should only have to deal with an occasional signal glitch, not a constantly bad signal. Verizon will find and fix the problem, but only after you PROVE to them it is not your equipment, then yell and escalate until someone high enough kicks them and forces them to do their job. Good luck!
> Goose


VERY sound advice! :up: :up:


----------



## Frederick H.

I have had the pixilization problem and have been reading this thread for a while. However the problem wouldn't remain on a particular channel. I figured Verizion was just re-adjusting things. It would clear up on one channel but appear on another, but only on one of my two Tivos, the TiVo HD, but not the Series 3. Since both TiVos are connected to the same wall box by one splitter they should be getting the same signal strength readings. I was checking all 4 cards for errors, corrections signal strength etc as mentioned in this thread. One card in particular in the TivoHD had the most trouble. I pulled the power plug, reseated the card serveral times and haven't had problems since. (this was about two weeks ago).


----------



## bhaas

richsadams said:


> VERY sound advice! :up: :up:


actually, Reed-Solomon FEC, depending on the overhead, can perfectly correct randomly-distributed errors as bad as a Bit-Error-Ratio (BER) of 1E-6. It does not generally perform as well if the same # of errors are clumped together, in "bursts".


----------



## fpp777

I too have a sporadic pix problem. I have ordered an attenuation pack from smarthome. When I add the attenuators should I power off (unplug) the Tivo or just unplug the cable?


----------



## ursa99

fpp777 said:


> I too have a sporadic pix problem. I have ordered an attenuation pack from smarthome. When I add the attenuators should I power off (unplug) the Tivo or just unplug the cable?


You can just unplug the coax, attach the attenuators and reattach the coax to the TIVO.


----------



## richsadams

bhaas said:


> actually, Reed-Solomon FEC, depending on the overhead, can perfectly correct randomly-distributed errors as bad as a Bit-Error-Ratio (BER) of 1E-6. It does not generally perform as well if the same # of errors are clumped together, in "bursts".


Um, okay...sounds very wise; "forward error correction codes" and all (even though I've no idea what it all means).  The advice I was supporting was to not let the cableco's get away with telling you things are fine...it must be your TiVo. Keep after them until everything, the signal in particular, is indeed as it should be. How they get to that point isn't really of concern IMHO, at least to me.


----------



## Gregor

:up: to a great set of debugging instructions!

Got the attenuators last week before the install, and tonite while watching the convention I was seeing some pixellation on channels 811-815 so I popped them in to start. The PBS station was rock-solid so I could determine it wasn't a source problem.

Popped in the attenuators, for me -10 seems to be the right number as the error counts stay at zero and the picture stays solid too.


----------



## richsadams

Thanks for the update Gregor...good info. :up: Still no FIOS here.  AFAIK (and according to one of their techs) they installed everything in our area back in June, but haven't offered it up yet. They did the same thing in my brother in law's neighborhood across town last year and within a few weeks it was available.


----------



## LDLDL

Here's my scenerio...
New HDTiVo.
M card (Comcast) (Motorola)

Tuner 0:
SNR - 36db
Signal Strength - 93 - 100
RSU - 0
RSC - 0
This is mostly the same regardless of what channel it's on.

Tuner 1:
SNR - 34db
Signal Strength - 93 - 100
RSU - 4,000+ and constantly rising.
RSC - 40,000,000+ and constantly rising.
This is after being on any channel for about 12 hours.

Comcast tech changed all of fittings in the house. Will return on Tuesday to change fitting outside on pole.

Called TiVo and they suggested that it is a card problem.

What do you fine TiVo experts think?

Thanks for your help!

PS...
I really do love my TiVo and have missed it ever since I got rid of DirecTV. I just want the picture I had with my Comcast HD STB.


----------



## hkancyr

Since June my HD channels have refused to come in. They pixelate and lock, occasionaly even reboot. I have already gotten a couple new cards and a different TiVoHD from TiVo. I have had the Comcast guys out here and they changed cards, rerigged every splitter, and even ran a cable directly from the distro box (which feeds 6 units) to the TiVoHD with the same result. My signal has always been 100 and my SNR is 37-38. After reading most of this thread it seems like attenuators will solve my problem, anyone think differently? I ordered the attenuators and will keep you advised. I am in New Haven (CT) Comcast area.


----------



## LDLDL

hkancyr said:


> Since June my HD channels have refused to come in. They pixelate and lock, occasionaly even reboot. I have already gotten a couple new cards and a different TiVoHD from TiVo. I have had the Comcast guys out here and they changed cards, rerigged every splitter, and even ran a cable directly from the distro box (which feeds 6 units) to the TiVoHD with the same result. My signal has always been 100 and my SNR is 37-38. After reading most of this thread it seems like attenuators will solve my problem, anyone think differently? I ordered the attenuators and will keep you advised. I am in New Haven (CT) Comcast area.


Out of curiosity, how was your cable before TiVo. In other words, did you have an HD STB from Comcast?


----------



## mazman

LDLDL said:


> Here's my scenerio...
> New HDTiVo.
> M card (Comcast) (Motorola)
> 
> Tuner 0:
> SNR - 36db
> RSU - 0
> RSC - 0
> This is mostly the same regardless of what channel it's on.
> 
> Tuner 1:
> SNR - 34db
> RSU - 4,000+ and constantly rising.
> RSC - 40,000,000+ and constantly rising.
> This is after being on any channel for about 12 hours.
> 
> Comcast tech changed all of fittings in the house. Will return on Tuesday to change fitting outside on pole.
> 
> Called TiVo and they suggested that it is a card problem.
> 
> What do you fine TiVo experts think?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> PS...
> I really do love my TiVo and have missed it ever since I got rid of DirecTV. I just want the picture I had with my Comcast HD STB.


I had the exact scenario months back. Turned out that one of the two tuners in the Tivo was bad. Called them and they exchanged it.


----------



## LDLDL

mazman said:


> I had the exact scenario months back. Turned out that one of the two tuners in the Tivo was bad. Called them and they exchanged it.


I guess that's what I get for getting a refurbished unit!
Now I have to go through the whole friggin headache of packing it up and sending it back!
Why didn't the TiVo tech recognize this and suggest that I send it back instead of getting my hopes up by telling me that it's the card.

Did the new unit correct the problem?

Now the tech will come here with new cards and we will problably have the same problem.

I'm going to let him come back and I'm going to try two cards just to see if you're right....
I hope you're wrong!
Thanks for the reply!


----------



## mazman

My replacement unit has worked fine.

One way to prove that one of the tuners is bad is to force a channel which has lots of errors on Tuner 1 onto Tuner 0, and see if it the errors go away on Tuner 0.

Good luck.


----------



## LDLDL

mazman said:


> My replacement unit has worked fine.
> 
> One way to prove that one of the tuners is bad is to force a channel which has lots of errors on Tuner 1 onto Tuner 0, and see if it the errors go away on Tuner 0.
> 
> Good luck.


No, it makes a lot of sense!
No errors on Tuner 0 at all, all the errors are on Tuner 1.
Now I have to go through the headache of sending this S*** back!!!!!
I am not happy!


----------



## hkancyr

LDLDL,

I've had TiVo's since S1 days and I have 3 S2,s and the TivoHD.
They have all been great til June. I have a HD STB also on another TV which I use with a TiVo dual tuner. The other TiVo's and the STB are working fine. 
The only thing I can think of is that Comcast cranked up the cable for someone in my 6 unit condo in June and this is the result. 
Some of my SD channels were pixelating today, but they don't lock the system up, they just get over it after a second or two.
I should be receiving the attenuators tomorrow, so we will see what we will see. 
As I said I traded in my original TiVoHD when this thing started happening. Therefore I doubt the THD was to blame.


----------



## hkancyr

Cable guy here today but no attenuators. Cable guy poo poo's the idea that the signal is too hot. TiVoHD reboots on it's own a few times and I call TiVo support and the first guy goes through a million troubleshooting things and finally tells me to try the component cable instead of HDMI. I called back to tell them I couldn't find the component cable and got Denver instead of Indianapolis. The new dude says "what is you signal strength." I tell him and he says it's too much, it has to come down to between 80 and 90&#37; if you want the CC to be happy. I told him I was expecting the attenuators imminently, and he said that they would probably fix the problem.


----------



## JasonMowry

I am a longtime TiVo enthusiast who enjoyed the TiVo series 1 and 2 units, before suffering protracted issues with the TiVo HD unit. This is my first time posting a description of my TiVo HD problems on this forum. I've read through a great deal of the 800+ (!!!) posts relating similar problems to my experience, but unfortunately none of the solutions that have worked for others have solved it for me. I'm hoping that someone could still see something new I've missed or have further insight into the problem.

Shortly after I started using my new TiVo HD unit, I discovered that programs recorded from certain channels would regularly be distorted to the point they were unwatchable. The breakup in picture would come regularly, multiple times per minute, and would look as if digital static had garbled the entire image, hence the term "pixelation" has been used to describe this type of distortion. During these incidents, the sound would cut out almost simultaneously as well. I found that all the channels that suffered from the issue used a carrier frequency in the 400-500 MHz range. I worked with multiple Verizon technicians to try and identify and fix the cause of the distortions, but the only help they could provide was to verify the signal strength reaching the TiVo unit. I believe I have isolated the TiVo unit itself as the only possible source of the issue by demonstrating the following:


A Verizon (Motorola) set-top box simultaneously receiving the same signal can successfully tune the given channel when the TiVo unit can not.
A small set of Verizon digital cable channels remain unencrypted and can be received by a digital TV without requiring a cablecard. Some of these channels suffered the pixelation issue, and I was able to successfully tune the given channel with my TV when the TiVo unit could not (either with or without the cablecard.)
The problem regularly happens on just one of the two tuners, and this is consistent even after I reverse the order of the two cablecards.
By using manual recordings of different time lengths, I can set the TiVo unit to record the same channel simultaneously on both tuners, and only one of the two recordings will suffer the pixelation problem. (This approach has been my workaround for quite some time now.)
I have tried to work with TiVo technical support for months on this issue but their effort has been lackluster and unsuccessful. Through the course of the investigation I was able to replace my TiVo unit twice, and all three units have displayed this problem, though which tuner is worse than the other is not always the same. I have tried to attenuate the signal strength reaching the TiVo unit, but no matter how fine an adjustment I make this only manages the degree of the problem and never solves it entirely (for either of the last two TiVo units). I also do not need Verizon's router since I don't normally use any set-top boxes, so I have disconnected that to remove any potential MoCA interference. How is it that I am reproducing the problem so readily at my home on multiple TiVo units and yet this problem does not appear to be widespread? (Or is it, does everyone else just give up?) I am a software engineer, and while I'm used to methodically solving technical issues like this, I'm not used to such a patterned problem not having a logical solution.

I appreciate any help that members on this forum can provide.


----------



## hkancyr

Attenuators did not work for my problem. Probably getting another TiVoHD from TiVo.
Man this is fun.


----------



## Philipp5

I had this problem for a month especially on HD channels and had about 5 different Verizon Fios cable guys here visiting to try to fix it. We tried swapping out cables, replacing the main cable box, and different attenuators. 
The solution is the attenuators, but you have to measure the signal on the Tivo HD itself. The snr needs to be at around 32 to 34. 

Verizon says that the Tivo was designed to work with Comcast type cable signal that are very low and not the high quality full strength signal coming from the fiber optic Verizon.


----------



## JasonMowry

Unfortunately, I've already tried to hone the signal attenuation. I have a number of different attenuators, and the best combination I have come up with still produces the pixelation problem regularly on one of the tuners. Any more or less signal and both tuners start to exhibit worse problems. Furthermore, since the problem was mainly with lower frequency carrier signals, I tried a slope compensator which attenuates more for lower frequencies than higher ones. Even with that in the mix, no combination of different attenuators can improve the reception beyond where I have it now. Depending on the combination of attenuators, I was able to adjust in 1.5-2.5db increments - if finding the sweet spot requires finer tuning than that then I would say there is something really wrong with the TiVo.


----------



## ilh

Philipp5 said:


> Verizon says that the Tivo was designed to work with Comcast type cable signal that are very low and not the high quality full strength signal coming from the fiber optic Verizon.


I guess Verizon's own DVR is designed for Comcast's network. They installed an attenuator on mine during the initial installation.


----------



## hkancyr

Got new(refurb) TiVoHD problem solved. HD channels solid as a rock.


----------



## richsadams

hkancyr said:


> Got new(refurb) TiVoHD problem solved. HD channels solid as a rock.


Great to hear! Thanks for reporting back. :up: Enjoy!


----------



## LDLDL

hkancyr said:


> Got new(refurb) TiVoHD problem solved. HD channels solid as a rock.


GREAT!!!!!
So there is hope for me!!!!
Keep your fingers crossed, tech comes out this morning with new cards. I seriously doubt it will help. If not, TiVo will be replaced.
Do you have to send it back, have them receive it before they will ship another one to you?


----------



## richsadams

LDLDL said:


> Do you have to send it back, have them receive it before they will ship another one to you?


TiVo will usually take your credit card info, charge your account, ship immediately and then credit your account as soon as they receive your old TiVo.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## hkancyr

Yes I had one sent out and got it next day. Paid for it and refund will follow the old one being returned.
I have such an improved signal now (since the techs came out a few times and futzed with the line) that I can remove the Comcast amplifier they put on a couple years ago.
Yeah baby, silver linings all around.


----------



## V7Goose

Philipp5 said:


> I had this problem for a month especially on HD channels and had about 5 different Verizon FiOS cable guys here visiting to try to fix it. We tried swapping out cables, replacing the main cable box, and different attenuators.
> The solution is the attenuators, but you have to measure the signal on the Tivo HD itself. The snr needs to be at around 32 to 34.
> 
> Verizon says that the Tivo was designed to work with Comcast type cable signal that are very low and not the high quality full strength signal coming from the fiber optic Verizon.


This excuse from Verizon is absolute drivel!!! First, SNR stands for Signal to Noise Ratio, so a lower number there does not mean a weaker signal, just that the noise in the signal is closer to the strength of the useful information! No matter what the actual signal strength is, you always want the highest possible SNR. Second, my own personal experience, documented in this and several other threads, proves just how bogus that excuse is. I have FiOS, my SNR on the S3 is usually 36 - 37 db, and my channel signal strengths are almost always pegged at 100. And I have NO problems.

I did have problems at on time, but I carefully tested each and every channel, recording signal strength and error rates on both the S3 and my FiOS STB and proved that all of the bad channels had very high error rates and varying signal strength on ALL the channels being broadcast on 4 specific frequencies (you cannot use a "frequency range", as that is meaningless; each specific frequency contains numerous channels). Just for reference, each of those bad channels also showed about 32-34 db SNR, were all of the good ones were above 35 db. In most situations, the difference between 32 and 35 db SNR is meaningless, so that was not the problem, but it does show that the errors being detected were also causing an increase in the noise level on the signal. When I could show them their own diagnostics screen on the STB that proved the ongoing error rate even after we ran a new coax directly from the ONT to the STB (proving that it could not be my house wires), then they were forced to find and fix the signal problem at the CO. THAT was the correct solution, not trying to mask it with attenuators or other games. Good luck!


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## LDLDL

Tech came out, in the rain, checked all the fittings outside and inside. I can honestly say that this one was good. He had that card working in the TiVo in five minutes!!!!! We realized that the problem is probably the TiVo and he had me sign papers and he was out of there.
I'll pack up the TiVo on Monday. I expect that everything will be OK by the end of the week.
Thanks to you all for the help...
Will keep you updated!
----L


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## Gregor

Pixellation problems showed up again this weekend, on FOX and ABC. Added some more attenuation. If it keeps up I may well end up getting FIOS back out here...


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## hkancyr

Bad news the new TiVoHD is doing exactly the same thing as the old one now. I was amazed by the stability and then about 20 minutes later it started getting jerky then pixelization then freeze. 
I wonder if TiVo will trade this thing in for a real S3? They don't have this problem, do they? 
My CC isn't activated yet, but I have no doubt that activating will not help the situation. This problem looks too similar in all 3 TiVoHD's that I've had.
The only thing I can recall doing in June was canceling a few pay channels that I rarely watched. That seems to be when the Macroblocking (pixelization), jerkiness, locking started. Hmmmmm.


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## LDLDL

hkancyr said:


> Bad news the new TiVoHD is doing exactly the same thing as the old one now. I was amazed by the stability and then about 20 minutes later it started getting jerky then pixelization then freeze.
> I wonder if TiVo will trade this thing in for a real S3? They don't have this problem, do they?
> My CC isn't activated yet, but I have no doubt that activating will not help the situation. This problem looks too similar in all 3 TiVoHD's that I've had.
> The only thing I can recall doing in June was canceling a few pay channels that I rarely watched. That seems to be when the Macroblocking (pixelization), jerkiness, locking started. Hmmmmm.


I feel so bad that you are going through this crap!
I'll keep you updated on my progress.
To be perfectly honest, the pixel problem isn't that bad on the one tuner. It's just that with HD, you want the best picture possible. That's what we paid and what we are paying for!!!!


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## JasonMowry

I'm on my 3rd TiVo HD unit after having returned 2 for the same pixelation problem, and I'm currently just living with the issue on the 3rd unit. I've seen the same story from a number of people on this board. How many people call TiVo tech support and press them for a solution? I've tried for months, and they never really seem to understand the issue nor will they ever acknowledge that this is wide-spread. Has anyone else had better luck?


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## Gregor

hkancyr said:


> Bad news the new TiVoHD is doing exactly the same thing as the old one now. I was amazed by the stability and then about 20 minutes later it started getting jerky then pixelization then freeze.
> I wonder if TiVo will trade this thing in for a real S3? They don't have this problem, do they?
> My CC isn't activated yet, but I have no doubt that activating will not help the situation. This problem looks too similar in all 3 TiVoHD's that I've had.
> The only thing I can recall doing in June was canceling a few pay channels that I rarely watched. That seems to be when the Macroblocking (pixelization), jerkiness, locking started. Hmmmmm.


My S3s are exhibiting the same issues with pixellation. I'm on FIOS if that helps.


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## JasonMowry

V7Goose, or anyone else who has had success with Verizon Technicians, do you have any advice for getting them to do their job? I've had at least three separate technicians out to my house for the pixelation problems, and none of them seem to demonstrate an understanding of the issues involved. Would you be able to suggest any specific steps that the technician perform to diagnose and/or fix the issue? Any magic words that point them in the right direction? I'm waiting with baited breath for the FIOS channel realignment this week to see whether my problems miraculously get better or turn far worse....


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## jglonek

You guys are making me excited, let me tell you.

I got FIOS and a TiVo HD three weeks ago, noticed pixellation on random channels up until tonight (Animal Planet SD, Scifi SD). I've been watching random shows on other channels (Hole in the Wall on Sunday) and things were fine. Tonight during Terminator on Fox, though, terrible pixellation. And it's not just screen flickers, it's entire sound cutting in and out on my system and screen freezes. But it happens randomly on different channels. I just really noticed it tonight because it's the start of the Fall TV season and bam! terrible the first night.

I know before I got FIOS I talked to a friend who said to make sure I get attenuators. Of course they didn't give me any, but things seemed fine so I didn't bother. I called up the repair line tonight and they said it's usually a long process to find the problem and that they never heard of an attenuator before. Great.

So I ordered a set from a website about an hour ago, hoping it would solve the problems. Then i found this thread, where you guys are all fearing it's actually the TiVo's.

So will the attenuator's not fix my issue? Is there a chance it will? Or should I be looking at ordering a new box from TiVo?


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## JasonMowry

My two cents (sorry, I seem to be posting a lot now) is that it is probably a combination of the TiVo units having below average tuners and the FIOS service having a much wider spectrum of signal problems than traditional cable providers. It also doesn't help that neither service seems to provide adequate technical support. Yes, attenuators seem to help many users but I believe my experiences demonstrate much more complex issues at hand here (see top of this page).


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## hkancyr

If this were a computer I would sure think this was a driver issue.


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## richsadams

JasonMowry said:


> V7Goose, or anyone else who has had success with Verizon Technicians, do you have any advice for getting them to do their job?


Here is a post from TiVoJerry (TiVo Employee that posts here periodically). It refers to another issue, but the remedies may be applicable:



> I apologize for not stepping in to answer questions earlier but I have been traveling for work and didn't have much opportunity to scan the forums.
> 
> We have notified agents several times that the only "known issue" that we're investigating is where the video freezes on a still frame but the menus operate just fine. Unfortunately, there is still confusion about this. Poor A/V should not be associated with frozen A/V, but it still happens (most likely based on what terminology the customer & agent use).
> 
> First off, if you are a Verizon FiOS customer, you should definitely use an attenuator, but you should also use a low pass filter. They use MoCa signaling that doesn't play nice with our boxes. I wouldn't even troubleshoot FiOS further until these are in place.
> 
> For all other providers, I strongly recommend, if at all possible for testing purposes, that you try running a straight connection to where you signal enters the home. This effectively bypasses all splitters, splicers, dirty connections, and bad wiring in the home. Not everyone can do this, but if you can and the picture improves you now know that you've got some work ahead to eliminate the problem within the video path.
> 
> TROUBLESHOOTING:
> Put each tuner onto an affected channel.
> Go to the Diagnostics screen (Msg & Settings> Acct & SysInfo> Diagnostics) and check:
> Frequency
> Modulation
> Signal Lock (is it going in and out)
> Program Lock (ditto)
> Signal Strength
> SNR
> RS Uncorrected
> 
> 1> ---the higher the signal strength the better, but above 95 could be too hot. If strength is low, remove any splitters or bad cabling; and I'm not just talking about what's between the wall and the TV. Anything between where the cable hits your home and the TV is suspect. This is not always easy to do in a house with numerous splitters underneath the house.
> 
> If you end up running a clean feed and strength is still low, call your cable company.
> 
> If signal is high, use an attenuator. 3 to 6 db is usually more than enough but I've heard of people not seeing results until using over 9! Some people try variable attenuators to dial it in.
> 
> 2>---SNR
> A QAM 64 signal will usually require a SNR of 24 db, a QAM 256 will require a SNR of 30 dB. If this is low, a booster may help. I'm told that above 35 could actually be a bad thing but haven't heard any reports of that nature.
> 
> 3> Reed Solomon Uncorrected (RSU) errors
> If the number on this line is high and jumping quickly, you could experience video problems. You can try playing with an attenuator but the cable company is really going to have to clean things up on their end.
> 
> With all that said, there are numerous other variables in the signal that we cannot control, making it hard to guarantee success. A hardware exchange may, or may not, resolve the issue at this point but we'll do one in the interest of customer satisfaction. If the replacement exhibits the same symptoms, the problem lies elsewhere.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> __________________
> Jerry
> TiVo CS Engineer & Grillmeister
> TiVo Ninja


Apologies, I didn't save the direct link for some reason.

Here is another thread, "FIOS TV pixellation fix - attenuate to SNR 31" which might (or might not) help.

I'm sure others can point you to some valuable posts as well.

Best of luck!


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## jglonek

I just went into the settings for the first time this morning on Fox HD (which is still giving pixellation).

My signal strength was hopping around from 100 down to 50. My SNR was going 35-37db. And my RS Uncorrected was pretty high (in the hundreds of thousands). 

So, is that kind of signal bounce normal and the SNR still needs to be dropped down with attenuators and the like? Or do I have signal issues causing the pixellation?


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## richsadams

jglonek said:


> I just went into the settings for the first time this morning on Fox HD (which is still giving pixellation).
> 
> My signal strength was hopping around from 100 down to 50. My SNR was going 35-37db. And my RS Uncorrected was pretty high (in the hundreds of thousands).
> 
> So, is that kind of signal bounce normal and the SNR still needs to be dropped down with attenuators and the like? Or do I have signal issues causing the pixellation?


IMO you have serious signal issues. A variance of 5 to 10 points of signal strength might be acceptable. I'm surprised you're seeing much TV at all!


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## jglonek

richsadams said:


> IMO you have serious signal issues. A variance of 5 to 10 points of signal strength might be acceptable. I'm surprised you're seeing much TV at all!


Well luckily I got a good Fios tech on the line and they are sending someone out today to take readings! And hopefully make changes. I mentioned that TiVo suggests attenuators/low pass filters and they will do what they need to.


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## V7Goose

jglonek said:


> I just went into the settings for the first time this morning on Fox HD (which is still giving pixellation).
> 
> My signal strength was hopping around from 100 down to 50. My SNR was going 35-37db. And my RS Uncorrected was pretty high (in the hundreds of thousands).
> 
> So, is that kind of signal bounce normal and the SNR still needs to be dropped down with attenuators and the like? Or do I have signal issues causing the pixellation?


Glad you finally found the information. You are seeing EXACTLY the symptoms that I experienced on all channels being broadcast on 4 different frequencies. Your signal strength should generally be over 90 and not vary by more than 10, but the error rates are the real indicators. I suggest you spend the time to check every single channel for signal strength and error rates. Write down the channel and frequencies for every one that is bad - you will see a pattern, and you will then have the necessary ammo to make them fix it.

And despite the fact that not everyone either believes me or agrees with me, IMHO you DO NOT NEED attenuators, and probably don't need any filters either. You simply just need a clean signal to be delivered to your house - that is what you are paying for!
Good luck,
Goose


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## jglonek

V7Goose said:


> And despite the fact that not everyone either believes me or agrees with me, IMHO you DO NOT NEED attenuators, and probably don't need any filters either. You simply just need a clean signal to be delivered to your house - that is what you are paying for!
> Good luck,Goose


Well a tech just came out, who unfortunately didn't seem as knowledgeable as the person I talked to over the phone. They ran some tests inside and outside of the house and did not come across any issues and said that the signal was great.

I mentioned to the tech about attenuators and low pass filters and they didn't have any on them (because "they aren't usually needed") so they ran back to the local Verizon building and grabbed a low pass filter for me, no attenuators for some reason. When I get home I'll test it out and see what happens.

The kicker is that the tech said when they went back to grab the filter they talked to someone else about my TiVo and were told that TiVo's don't work well with FIOS and they probably should never have given me cable cards for it in the first place, they should have made me use one of their set top boxes.

Nice, nice.


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## webin

jglonek said:


> The kicker is that the tech said when they went back to grab the filter they talked to someone else about my TiVo and were told that TiVo's don't work well with FIOS and they probably should never have given me cable cards for it in the first place, they should have made me use one of their set top boxes.


Yah, they are idiots. But I assume you know that.


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## LDLDL

LDLDL said:


> GREAT!!!!!
> So there is hope for me!!!!
> Keep your fingers crossed, tech comes out this morning with new cards. I seriously doubt it will help. If not, TiVo will be replaced.
> Do you have to send it back, have them receive it before they will ship another one to you?


Ordered the TiVo today, they are sending me a new one (not refurb)! I'll keep you all updated on the progress.
---L


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## LDLDL

jglonek said:


> Well a tech just came out, who unfortunately didn't seem as knowledgeable as the person I talked to over the phone. They ran some tests inside and outside of the house and did not come across any issues and said that the signal was great.
> 
> I mentioned to the tech about attenuators and low pass filters and they didn't have any on them (because "they aren't usually needed") so they ran back to the local Verizon building and grabbed a low pass filter for me, no attenuators for some reason. When I get home I'll test it out and see what happens.
> 
> The kicker is that the tech said when they went back to grab the filter they talked to someone else about my TiVo and were told that TiVo's don't work well with FIOS and they probably should never have given me cable cards for it in the first place, they should have made me use one of their set top boxes.
> 
> Nice, nice.


Well it seem that from Richsadams post (#862), it is suggested that you use an attenuator and low pass filter if you are a FIOS customer. Why can't the FIOS guys come out prepared and save you all of this headache?
Ever since my pixel problem, I've been reading these post every day. It seems that we all have a problem, but not necessarily the same. I think my problem is pretty simple as my one tuner has not pixelated at all, whereas the other tuner does nothing but!!!!
When I talked to the TiVo rep, he asked me what service I had. When I told him Comcast, he said that they really don't have many problems with that provider and this is with the new and refurb boxes.
We'll just wait and see as I hope the box arrives tomorrow or the following day!


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## jglonek

LDLDL said:


> Well it seem that from Richsadams post (#862), it is suggested that you use an attenuator and low pass filter if you are a FIOS customer. Why can't the FIOS guys come out prepared and save you all of this headache?


And I mentioned both to the tech on the phone as well as the tech that was out here before they ran back to get the filter. Ah well.

I have the filter on, so far the signal is holding steady at 100% and the SNR is at 37db. Channels like Fox seem fine but it's still early evening. Have to see how Fringe looks when it gets recorded tonight.

Update: Everything went perfectly fine tonight. I guess I'll see how it goes the rest of the week with this filter.


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## richsadams

LDLDL said:


> <snip> I think my problem is pretty simple as my one tuner has not pixelated at all, whereas the other tuner does nothing but!!!!


I may have missed it, but did Comcast replace your cable cards at any point? A malfunctioning cable card could certainly be the source if one tuner is fine and the other is not. I'm guessing it's tuner/cable card number one as that was the major culprit when TiVo HD's were first introduced...particularly if Scientific Atlanta (SA) cable cards were used. (Motorola cable cards had/have the least amount of problems even today.) Subsequent software upgrades corrected most of the issues, but there still seem to be a few lingering problems.

Out of curiosity, have you tried running your TiVo without cable cards at all; either just with coax and/or with an antenna? It would be interesting to see if the same tuner has issues even without a cable card. You'd have to run Guided Setup each time, but it might be worth it.

In any case, best of luck and let us know how it goes.


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## richsadams

jglonek said:


> And I mentioned both to the tech on the phone as well as the tech that was out here before they ran back to get the filter. Ah well.
> 
> I have the filter on, so far the signal is holding steady at 100% and the SNR is at 37db. Channels like Fox seem fine but it's still early evening. Have to see how Fringe looks when it gets recorded tonight.
> 
> Update: Everything went perfectly fine tonight. I guess I'll see how it goes the rest of the week with this filter.


Glad to hear that the low-pass filter seems to have done the trick. :up: That the signal is steady at 100% is a little concerning as it means the signal is still very strong. Normally it would fluctuate a little, but it may be fine. Keep us posted!


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## cassy

Tivo S3 Pixellation problem here too. Comcast with 2 cablecards. Happens only on HD channels. Lots of RS uncorrected errors. Leads to pixellation and reboots. Non HD channels are ok.

Interesting this, also happens on HD ATSC OTA channels too. Pixellation, studders, but no reboot.

This started after 9.4, hopefully they will fix it someday SOON.

I had this problem in the past and this Tivo S3 was a replacement for an original.


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## LDLDL

richsadams said:


> I may have missed it, but did Comcast replace your cable cards at any point? A malfunctioning cable card could certainly be the source if one tuner is fine and the other is not. I'm guessing it's tuner/cable card number one as that was the major culprit when TiVo HD's were first introduced...particularly if Scientific Atlanta (SA) cable cards were used. (Motorola cable cards had/have the least amount of problems even today.) Subsequent software upgrades corrected most of the issues, but there still seem to be a few lingering problems.
> 
> Out of curiosity, have you tried running your TiVo without cable cards at all; either just with coax and/or with an antenna? It would be interesting to see if the same tuner has issues even without a cable card. You'd have to run Guided Setup each time, but it might be worth it.
> 
> In any case, best of luck and let us know how it goes.


Yes....
Comcast did come out this past Saturday and replaced the card. The problem still exsists. So far they've given me two Motorola "M" cards. The problem is on tuner 1. Tuner 0 is fine!
Anyway, I just checked and the replacement just arrived, so we'll see when I get home. I just hate going through the whole set up thing.


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## Gerhard

Verizon FIOS and the S3 Tivo, my story:

Folks, I've had issues with macroblocking / pixelizations / tiling from the very begining with my Tivo S3.

Frankly, the video has never been perfect with ANY cable vendor. Maybe I'm just super critical, but macroblocking during action scenes is more than a little annoying.

Anyway, I do know that with Verizon the 611 series ONT is part of my problem.

If I put a diplexer in line with the output of the ONT, the majority of RS Uncorrected errors go away on the Tivo.

(That's without putting one on the Tivo itself...)

This does not fix the issues with macroblock during fast paced action scenes on the Tivo, but it does help significantly with the massive issues I have on specific channels. (Usually in the 730-780MHz range...)


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## SBSmithNH

I too have had pixelation issues with my series 3 Tivo. For 10 months, everything was working perfectly. I had added a Westen Digital DVR Expander soon after I received the Tivo Series 3. Then, I had pixelation issues. If I had 1 tuner on HD, and the other on SD, no problem... Then it became impossible to watch any HD channels.

I had Comcast come out and replace the cable cards. I then determined it must be an issue with the Tivo. I just received a replacement, and it initially had no problems. Then, to my amazement, I still had some pixelation issues. Whose to blame? The signal coming from Comcast is great, no corrections... It then dawned on me that I had a DVR Expander, could this be the issue? I divorced the expander and I have had no pixelation issues at all.

I have a new DVR Expander coming from Western Digital. I wonder how many pixelation isses are related to the same problem. I am not sure if I will actually use it.


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## richsadams

SBSmithNH said:


> I too have had pixelation issues with my series 3 Tivo. <snip> I divorced the expander and I have had no pixelation issues at all.
> 
> I have a new DVR Expander coming from Western Digital. I wonder how many pixelation isses are related to the same problem. I am not sure if I will actually use it.


There have been a number of reports of macroblocking, reboots, etc. where the cause was narrowed down to WD's My DVR Expander (as well as a few other models). In most cases it turned out to be the supplied eSATA cable. Early on some WD My DVR Expanders wouldn't even work with the OEM cable.

It's not a cure-all, but the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10 and may be a wise investment for anyone having issues that has an expansion drive connected to their TiVo.


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## ursa99

JasonMowry said:


> I am a longtime TiVo enthusiast who enjoyed the TiVo series 1 and 2 units, before suffering protracted issues with the TiVo HD unit. This is my first time posting a description of my TiVo HD problems on this forum. I've read through a great deal of the 800+ (!!!) posts relating similar problems to my experience, but unfortunately none of the solutions that have worked for others have solved it for me. I'm hoping that someone could still see something new I've missed or have further insight into the problem.
> 
> Shortly after I started using my new TiVo HD unit, I discovered that programs recorded from certain channels would regularly be distorted to the point they were unwatchable. The breakup in picture would come regularly, multiple times per minute, and would look as if digital static had garbled the entire image, hence the term "pixelation" has been used to describe this type of distortion. During these incidents, the sound would cut out almost simultaneously as well. I found that all the channels that suffered from the issue used a carrier frequency in the 400-500 MHz range. I worked with multiple Verizon technicians to try and identify and fix the cause of the distortions, but the only help they could provide was to verify the signal strength reaching the TiVo unit. I believe I have isolated the TiVo unit itself as the only possible source of the issue by demonstrating the following:
> 
> 
> A Verizon (Motorola) set-top box simultaneously receiving the same signal can successfully tune the given channel when the TiVo unit can not.
> A small set of Verizon digital cable channels remain unencrypted and can be received by a digital TV without requiring a cablecard. Some of these channels suffered the pixelation issue, and I was able to successfully tune the given channel with my TV when the TiVo unit could not (either with or without the cablecard.)
> The problem regularly happens on just one of the two tuners, and this is consistent even after I reverse the order of the two cablecards.
> By using manual recordings of different time lengths, I can set the TiVo unit to record the same channel simultaneously on both tuners, and only one of the two recordings will suffer the pixelation problem. (This approach has been my workaround for quite some time now.)
> I have tried to work with TiVo technical support for months on this issue but their effort has been lackluster and unsuccessful. Through the course of the investigation I was able to replace my TiVo unit twice, and all three units have displayed this problem, though which tuner is worse than the other is not always the same. I have tried to attenuate the signal strength reaching the TiVo unit, but no matter how fine an adjustment I make this only manages the degree of the problem and never solves it entirely (for either of the last two TiVo units). I also do not need Verizon's router since I don't normally use any set-top boxes, so I have disconnected that to remove any potential MoCA interference. How is it that I am reproducing the problem so readily at my home on multiple TiVo units and yet this problem does not appear to be widespread? (Or is it, does everyone else just give up?) I am a software engineer, and while I'm used to methodically solving technical issues like this, I'm not used to such a patterned problem not having a logical solution.
> 
> I appreciate any help that members on this forum can provide.


I haven't given up...and I have exactly the same problem in the 400 - 429KHZ frequency range. I have a 611 ONT with a low pass filter attached that has made no difference. Pixelization occurs randomly and not constantly. Mostly, at least this week it begins around 8:00PM EDT and includes signal bounce from 0 to 100 and all integers in between. I have used a variable attenuator and tuned to where it almost loses the picture and the pixelization continues. I believe the TIVO's error correction is inferior to that of the Verizon boxes. From another post it was reported that the Verizon boxes see the same dirty signal and it's RS errors but is able to correct them. I also believe that a dirty signal is the root cause of this and since TIVO will unlikely fix the hardware the solution is to get Verizon to clean up their signal. Easier said than done but I'm in contact with at least one level up from the Tech's and working my way thru the maze to hopefully get them to fix it. Otherwise I'm weighing my options as some channels are just plain unwatchable. TIVO really needs to acknowledge this poor error correction and make good on the $$$'s we spent on these boxes. I expected a whole lot more when I put my money down...

-ursa


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## JasonMowry

For the record I have FIOS in Southeastern PA with a 611 ONT from a few years ago. I've tried attenuators, and they only mitigate the problem for some channels while others randomly pixelate frequently. I tried adding a diplexer (860MHz and under split to TiVo) to no avail at all. Since my issues have all been confined to carrier frequencies in the 400MHz range (which is on the lower end of the scale) I even tried adding a tilt compensator (which attenuates more for lower frequencies than higher ones) but I've never been sure if this works any better than a standard attenuator. These are all still in my signal chain and I still regularly experience pixelation on the same channels on just one tuner. I previously had two other TiVo HD units that both experienced pixelation more on one tuner than the other (though one unit was reversed as to which tuner was stronger, and yes this is independent of which cable card is in which slot.) Verizon changes my channel lineup tomorrow, so I'm crossing my fingers for a miracle....


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## LDLDL

UPDATE.....
Received the new (refurb) TiVo yesterday. Connected it up, forced updates, called Comcast to give them new Host ID, etc. They initially had a problem getting the computer to accept the new information, but eventually it went through after 15 minutes. As of 12 midnight, there has been no pixelation at all. The RS corrected and uncorrected on both tuners are 0. So far, everything seems to be fine.
I'll report back on Saturday to let you all know if things are still the same.


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## richsadams

LDLDL said:


> UPDATE.....
> Received the new (refurb) TiVo yesterday. Connected it up, forced updates, called Comcast to give them new Host ID, etc. They initially had a problem getting the computer to accept the new information, but eventually it went through after 15 minutes. As of 12 midnight, there has been no pixelation at all. The RS corrected and uncorrected on both tuners are 0. So far, everything seems to be fine.
> I'll report back on Saturday to let you all know if things are still the same.


All of our fingers are crossed! :up:


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## Gregor

JasonMowry said:


> For the record I have FIOS in Southeastern PA with a 611 ONT from a few years ago. I've tried attenuators, and they only mitigate the problem for some channels while others randomly pixelate frequently. I tried adding a diplexer (860MHz and under split to TiVo) to no avail at all. Since my issues have all been confined to carrier frequencies in the 400MHz range (which is on the lower end of the scale) I even tried adding a tilt compensator (which attenuates more for lower frequencies than higher ones) but I've never been sure if this works any better than a standard attenuator. These are all still in my signal chain and I still regularly experience pixelation on the same channels on just one tuner. I previously had two other TiVo HD units that both experienced pixelation more on one tuner than the other (though one unit was reversed as to which tuner was stronger, and yes this is independent of which cable card is in which slot.) Verizon changes my channel lineup tomorrow, so I'm crossing my fingers for a miracle....


Lineup change here as well. Seeing some bits of pixellation, prolly spend more time on it this weekend...


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## ursa99

JasonMowry said:


> V7Goose, or anyone else who has had success with Verizon Technicians, do you have any advice for getting them to do their job? I've had at least three separate technicians out to my house for the pixelation problems, and none of them seem to demonstrate an understanding of the issues involved. Would you be able to suggest any specific steps that the technician perform to diagnose and/or fix the issue? Any magic words that point them in the right direction? I'm waiting with baited breath for the FIOS channel realignment this week to see whether my problems miraculously get better or turn far worse....


I'm currently dealing with the Tech dispatcher via email. Got his number from a tech who was told by the dispatcher to give it to me. This was after one call.
I've detailed to the dispatcher my issues and always include pictures of the diagnostics screen with varying degrees of signal strength. I usually have one or two that show zero. I recently recorded a short video of the diag screen when it was particularly bad, uploaded it to Picasa and sent the dispatcher an invitation to view it. He emailed me that the has forwarded the information to the Engineers who work 'upstream' issues and he has been told they are quite interested in finding out why cable cards in the TIVO's are logging these RS Uncorrected errors. I also told the dispatcher that I thought Verizon was wasting a lot of time and money on useless fixes and that an upstream fix would help MANY people and reduce their trouble calls. That seemed to get his attention. Ask the Tech for the number or email of someone higher up and work with that person. The low level techs have a protocol that always seems to include low pass filters and attenuation and unless the problem is happening when they happen to be there you really don't know if it is fixed, which in my case was never...

Don't give up. It seems many are in the same situation and since I doubt TIVO is going to fix their hardware it would seem a clean signal from Verizon is the best hope.

-Ursa


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## LDLDL

LDLDL said:


> UPDATE.....
> Received the new (refurb) TiVo yesterday. Connected it up, forced updates, called Comcast to give them new Host ID, etc. They initially had a problem getting the computer to accept the new information, but eventually it went through after 15 minutes. As of 12 midnight, there has been no pixelation at all. The RS corrected and uncorrected on both tuners are 0. So far, everything seems to be fine.
> I'll report back on Saturday to let you all know if things are still the same.


Sunday Morning now!!!!
And I must say that I am absolutely :up:
No pixelation at all, however I did notice that the RS corrected on tuner 1 sometimes hover in the low hundreds, not in the millions like before. I'm not going to worry about it as long as I have a perfect picture.
Went out and bought an expander. I'm now up to 86 HD/810 SD. My only regret about purching this is that if they come out with a TB. It would be great if WD could find a way for those of us who purchased this to piggyback the devices so it wouldn't be a waste of money.
If anything changes as far as the pixel problems are concerned, I'll post!!!!
Thanks all!!!!!
---L


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## Gregor

ursa99 said:


> I'm currently dealing with the Tech dispatcher via email. Got his number from a tech who was told by the dispatcher to give it to me. This was after one call.
> I've detailed to the dispatcher my issues and always include pictures of the diagnostics screen with varying degrees of signal strength. I usually have one or two that show zero. I recently recorded a short video of the diag screen when it was particularly bad, uploaded it to Picasa and sent the dispatcher an invitation to view it. He emailed me that the has forwarded the information to the Engineers who work 'upstream' issues and he has been told they are quite interested in finding out why cable cards in the TIVO's are logging these RS Uncorrected errors. I also told the dispatcher that I thought Verizon was wasting a lot of time and money on useless fixes and that an upstream fix would help MANY people and reduce their trouble calls. That seemed to get his attention. Ask the Tech for the number or email of someone higher up and work with that person. The low level techs have a protocol that always seems to include low pass filters and attenuation and unless the problem is happening when they happen to be there you really don't know if it is fixed, which in my case was never...
> 
> Don't give up. It seems many are in the same situation and since I doubt TIVO is going to fix their hardware it would seem a clean signal from Verizon is the best hope.
> 
> -Ursa


I'm thinking I might do the same. I can't explain why the signal strength varies wildly at times.


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## weaverdrew

I'm struggling with pixelation as well. Had a FIOS tech out for four hours today. He finally had to leave, very frustrated, and promised to return tomorrow. He replaced EVERYTHING from the ONT down to the cable cards. No change. (He did not try a low-pass filter or diplexer yet.)

Interestingly the issue is very bad on my S3 (SNR in mid-to-low 30s, RS errors galore, signal strength bouncing between 100 and 60) and very rare on my Tivo HD box.

I take it from reading all 800+ posts here that the filter/diplexer tricks do not always work -- even though Tivo characterizes them as a quick fix:
http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...quality_issues_with_Verizon_FiOS_service.html

-- but I will have the tech try them tomorrow.

I'll report how my issue gets resolved, or doesn't.


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## psuzebra

I experienced a ton of pixelation at my old house, but since I knew we were moving soon, I just dealt with it and occasionally played with the attenuation when it got really bad.

The first couple of weeks, didn't see much pixelation at all at our new house, no low pass filter, no attenuation. One six-way splitter in the basement right after the ONT (model 612), one two-way right before the TiVo.

After a couple weeks, saw pixelation on ESPN/ESPN2 HDs and some local HDs. Call up Verizon and a tech came out. Of course, the day he comes out, I experience zero pixelation. He pretty much blamed the TiVo but was willing to try out anything. He checked the signal (it was fine), left a low pass filter (put it right before the input into the TiVo), and left a bunch of attenuators (he said with the splitters I had, I should use 11db of attenuation).

The low pass filter didn't work for me. I still got pixelation a couple of days later, it always seems to be the same channels. I put on the 11db of attenutation, and the pixelation went away for the most part. However, it reared its ugly head last night while watching the MNF game on ESPN HD. Played with the attenuation again, but couldn't get rid of it 100%.

Attenuation/LPF obviously doesn't work all of the time, and can't be passed off as a permanent fix. TiVo needs to come up with something else for their below-grade hardware.


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## webin

psuzebra said:


> TiVo needs to come up with something else for their below-grade hardware.


It will be interesting to hear if any reports come in from Tivo HDXL owners using FioS... the hardware platform is essentially the same, but did tivo do anything (with the tuners?) to mitigate the pixellation issues?


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## pkrasicky

I'm having some pixelation problems with my TivoHD as well, but I suspect it is due to low signal strength. I'm on WOW cable and I had rampant pixelation problems even with my old cable box + Series 2 Tivo. The problems seem isolated to the premium channels, and not just the HD premium channels.

Where in the TivoHD menus can I look at signal strength and what are normal readings? If I was looking in the right spot, it seemed like both tuners had a pretty consistent signal strength of "40", whatever that means. Is it 40/100, or is there a unit there? I have the same questions for SNR, what's normal, what's bad, and what's good?

I suspect my signal strength is too low and I want to make sure that WOW won't balk when I ask for an amplifier.


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## esb1981

pkrasicky, 40 is the signal strength out of 100, which is definitely too low. I've found with low signal you might get by without problems in the mid-50's, but if it fluctuates below that you will see pixelation. SNR is your signal-to-noise ratio. This is my opinion, but if it's below 30 you might be in trouble. A strong signal with low noise will give you SNR of maybe 34-38. If you were on Fios, you'd probably want to keep the SNR closer to the low-30's.

I would definitely have WOW come out and get them to boost your signal one way or another. They may do it with an amplifier in your house, or by some other means further down the line.


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## ktulu858

Hi --

I've got a Tivo HD, and the pixelation occurs only on one of my tuners. I've got a m-stream moto cable card. 

Can I set my tivo to only record off of one of the tuners?

If so, how?

Thanks,

Chuck


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## richsadams

ktulu858 said:


> Hi -- I've got a Tivo HD, and the pixelation occurs only on one of my tuners. I've got a m-stream moto cable card. Can I set my tivo to only record off of one of the tuners? If so, how? Thanks, Chuck


Welcome to the forum but sorry to hear that it's under problem circumstances. AFAIK you can't specify which tuner TiVo will use to record programming. There are probably work-arounds but what an unnecessary pain. Has this been a problem since day one or did it just start happening?

Either way it's likely one of two things; either a faulty cable card or faulty TiVo tuner. You could just have your cableco replace the cable card, re-run Guided Setup and see if things are better. Or you could also have them install two "S" cable cards to determine if it's the cable card or the tuner. Another option is to go to the diagnostic screens and view the RS corrected and uncorrected errors on both tuners (which you may have already done). Document if errors are occurring only on certain channels, all channels, which tuner, etc. Then have your cableco replace your "M" cable card and take another look to see if things are better, the same or worse. If things remain the same it may be time to have TiVo replace your box (assuming it's under warranty).

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


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## ktulu858

richsadams said:


> There are probably work-arounds but what an unnecessary pain. Has this been a problem since day one or did it just start happening?


New to me box. I bought a refurb unit off of Tivo.com, so it's covered by a standard warranty.

I've monitored the SNR, and when it's pixelating heavily my SNR and signal strength are all over the map. I'm assuming it's related only to the cable company(cox). The interesting thing to note is that, I've watched programs as they were being recorded, and distinctly remember NOT seeing any pixelation. When I REWATCHED it, it pixelated. I'm thinking I've got problems on both ends, but if there was an easy workaround, I would easily use it.

For cox cable, I'm guessing it's just too much bandwidth needed to maintain two full lines in one outlet in a apartment complex.

Regardless, thanks for the help. I'll keep this updated.

Chuck


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## richsadams

ktulu858 said:


> New to me box. I bought a refurb unit off of Tivo.com, so it's covered by a standard warranty.
> 
> I've monitored the SNR, and when it's pixelating heavily my SNR and signal strength are all over the map. I'm assuming it's related only to the cable company(cox). The interesting thing to note is that, I've watched programs as they were being recorded, and distinctly remember NOT seeing any pixelation. When I REWATCHED it, it pixelated. I'm thinking I've got problems on both ends, but if there was an easy workaround, I would easily use it.
> 
> For cox cable, I'm guessing it's just too much bandwidth needed to maintain two full lines in one outlet in a apartment complex.
> 
> Regardless, thanks for the help. I'll keep this updated.
> 
> Chuck


Hey Chuck. It does sound like a signal/cable card issue if you're seeing the SNR and signal strength vary a great deal.

However, the other part of your post doesn't match up. If it's a signal issue you should see pixelization/macroblocking while you're watching the program as well as during playback of the same program. If you're only seeing it during playback that would point to another problem which would mostly likely be your hard drive. Hmmm...


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## TAsunder

Ever since I moved to a new apartment, pixelation problems have been progressively worse. It does not happen on all channels and only happens on the problem channels some of the time. It started with USA and Fox, where it would pixelate or skip for a few seconds every once in a while. Lately Fox has been consistently dropping / pixelating about three or four times per hour. Worse, CBS has intermittent problems wherein it is nearly unwatchable due to constant pixelation. Only once in a while.

Every time I go to look at the cable signal strength, it seems ok, although occasionally it drops below 80.

Fortunately, I get great antenna signals in the new place (98&#37; on CBS, 80+ on Fox and CW) so I have switched over my season passes to antenna anyway.

I would like to call my cable company, but I want to do as many troubleshooting steps as possible. Here's what I've done so far:

1. In Cable strength mode, switched out all cables with new ones. I noticed that I get about 5% improvement in strength when I disconnect the cable modem from the splitter. I can do this permanently and eliminate the splitter, but it will require a Tivo Wireless USB adapter in this case and I don't want to go this route if it's not necessary.

2. Rebooted. Seems to help with USA but no others.

3. Swapped tuners during problem times. No difference.

4. Moved tivo S3 to a cooler area.

What else can I do? I tried to look at the cable card diag screen but it doesn't make much sense to me and it doesn't seem to report any obvious problems.

From other threads here, you may all know that I am considering switching to satellite and dumping the Tivo on eBay or keeping it until my next move. If this sort of problem doesn't likely go away over time, I will probably just abandon hope and switch.

At the old place, I did not have my cable line hooked into a splitter.


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## richsadams

TAsunder said:


> Ever since I moved to a new apartment, pixelation problems have been progressively worse. <snip>


It certainly sounds like a signal issue and if you're seeing it on both tuners likely an incoming signal issue, so probably not TiVo's fault. There are a number of things you can do to trouble shoot and others will chime in (sorry, short on time) but one obvious one to me would be to replace the splitter with a new, good quality model. Splitters can be a real problem for TiVo as some do an awful job with signals. If your signal is marginal coming in and the splitter is low quality or faulty it can cause what you're seeing. I'd have the cableco come out, ensure that your signal is strong and as pristine as possible and replace the splitter to see if that helps.


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## jgerber

My 15 month old S3 has started with these symptoms over the weekend. I'm on Cox San Diego, with 2 cablecards, and on any HD channel get bad pixelation, long pauses, failure to respond to remote or panel input, etc. 

I just got off a 45 minute call (most of it hold time of course) with Tivo tech support and was advised by the uncomfortable sounding tech (uncomfortable, I think, that I had a lot of technical detail to describe about the problem) that he believed it to be a "problem with the motherboard, probably the tuner" and suggested I purchase a $149 refurbished exchange unit (plus tax, plus return shipping). 

He also told me that the kickstart 57 program was to fix problems with "a corrupted file that affects the phone line configuration" and that if I wanted to I should run the kickstart 54 disk diagnostics instead. And that in k54 to run the programs individually, and not the "smart" program because it usually didn't work. 

It seems there's far more clue on this forum than on the Tivo support payroll, so I plan to follow the advice here instead. I'll run the diag programs and replace the hard drive. Tivo Tech's idea that it is a problem with the tuner chipset seems rather far-fetched. But, I figured I'd throw it out there. 

BTW the HD channels when I can get the box stable long enough to look have a signal at 90-95, RSSI 34dB. SD channels work just fine. And of course the box works at normal performance when the input signal is disconnected. I had Cox re-hit the cablecards last night with no effect. 

Any other advice or guidance would be most welcome. TIA.


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## richsadams

jgerber said:


> My 15 month old S3 has started with these symptoms over the weekend. I'm on Cox San Diego, with 2 cablecards, and on any HD channel get bad pixelation, long pauses, failure to respond to remote or panel input, etc. <snip>


3 months after the warranty runs out? Sigh.  Yours does indeed sound more like a hard drive issue if it works when the coax is disconnected, particularly if it becomes non-responsive to remote input otherwise. Let us know how it goes after replacing the hard drive.

Worst scenario is that it remains the same in which case you could return the hard drive you bought, put the original back in your TiVo and return it for an exchange.


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## jgerber

It's actually looking promising that my extended warranty claim to American Express will be approved (not totally easy since Tivo refused to provide any documentation at all unless I paid for the exchange/RMA, but they ended up confirming the hardware failure verbally on the phone to Amex). 

So I'm hopeful that despite all the effort and irritation that things will come out OK. So far Tivo is -1 on customer service and Amex is +1 with me. 

Thanks again for the advice. I still may end up doing the hard drive in the end if Amex doesn't demand the original box back.


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## richsadams

jgerber said:


> It's actually looking promising that my extended warranty claim to American Express will be approved (not totally easy since Tivo refused to provide any documentation at all unless I paid for the exchange/RMA, but they ended up confirming the hardware failure verbally on the phone to Amex).
> 
> So I'm hopeful that despite all the effort and irritation that things will come out OK. So far Tivo is -1 on customer service and Amex is +1 with me.
> 
> Thanks again for the advice. I still may end up doing the hard drive in the end if Amex doesn't demand the original box back.


Cool that AMEX is coming through. Sad that TiVo wouldn't provide docs, but at least they talked to them. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## traig

I live in Germantown, MD (Washington DC area) and noticed a significant issue with pixelation / blocking recently, but only with LOCAL HD channels (channels 504-526). I have a Tivo HD with two cable cards and service with FIOS. As far as I am able to determine, I only have issues with channels using the 513 or 519 Mhz frequency (local NBC, FOX, PBS, etc). Channels that use other frequencies, like CNN-HD at 231 Mhz, or USA-HD at 135 Mhz, or HD-NET at 723 Mhz, give me no trouble at all.

When tuned to the local HD channels, I get signal strength that varies almost every second from the 40s up to 100, SNR anywhere from 30 to 35, and the RS corrected and uncorrected error counts climb constantly (unc in the 100k+ and cor in the millions after half an hour). This does not happen with standard channels or non-local HD. The problem will happen on both tuners, and is entirely specific to local HD channels.

I have already ordered attenuators from Smarthome, but I wonder if applying attenuation would help in this case? Is anyone else seeing issues with local HD only (or the reverse), or with specific frequencies only?


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## kealoha311

traig said:


> I live in Germantown, MD (Washington DC area) and noticed a significant issue with pixelation / blocking recently, but only with LOCAL HD channels (channels 504-526). I have a Tivo HD with two cable cards and service with FIOS. As far as I am able to determine, I only have issues with channels using the 513 or 519 Mhz frequency (local NBC, FOX, PBS, etc). Channels that use other frequencies, like CNN-HD at 231 Mhz, or USA-HD at 135 Mhz, or HD-NET at 723 Mhz, give me no trouble at all.
> 
> When tuned to the local HD channels, I get signal strength that varies almost every second from the 40s up to 100, SNR anywhere from 30 to 35, and the RS corrected and uncorrected error counts climb constantly (unc in the 100k+ and cor in the millions after half an hour). This does not happen with standard channels or non-local HD. The problem will happen on both tuners, and is entirely specific to local HD channels.
> 
> I have already ordered attenuators from Smarthome, but I wonder if applying attenuation would help in this case? Is anyone else seeing issues with local HD only (or the reverse), or with specific frequencies only?


That's exactly how my pixelation is and attenuation makes it a lot better. I also have to disconnect the other side of the splitter that goes to the Actiontec router, and that gets me to about 99.9% pixelation free on the problematic frequencies.


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## ursa99

traig said:


> I live in Germantown, MD (Washington DC area) and noticed a significant issue with pixelation / blocking recently, but only with LOCAL HD channels (channels 504-526). I have a Tivo HD with two cable cards and service with FIOS. As far as I am able to determine, I only have issues with channels using the 513 or 519 Mhz frequency (local NBC, FOX, PBS, etc). Channels that use other frequencies, like CNN-HD at 231 Mhz, or USA-HD at 135 Mhz, or HD-NET at 723 Mhz, give me no trouble at all.
> 
> When tuned to the local HD channels, I get signal strength that varies almost every second from the 40s up to 100, SNR anywhere from 30 to 35, and the RS corrected and uncorrected error counts climb constantly (unc in the 100k+ and cor in the millions after half an hour). This does not happen with standard channels or non-local HD. The problem will happen on both tuners, and is entirely specific to local HD channels.
> 
> I have already ordered attenuators from Smarthome, but I wonder if applying attenuation would help in this case? Is anyone else seeing issues with local HD only (or the reverse), or with specific frequencies only?


Yes, I'm seeing something very similar. A wildly bouncing signal and pixelization that renders the picture unwatchable for short periods. The pixelization happens ocassionally, sometimes at 8:00PM each night for several hours. All my affected channels are in the 411,000 to 429,000 frequency range. I have a low pass filter installed at the ONT and have tried attenuation from 8db up to 24db with no success. I think FIOS puts out a dirty signal once and a while and TIVO's tuners cannot correct the RS errors it creates. Verizon's tuners see the same dirty signal but have better error correction so the errors don't show up as pixelization....


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## traig

To follow-up on my post, I received the attenuators yesterday and put -16dB in the line right before the connection to the TivoHD. The results were immediately positive. Tuning in to the local NBC and FOX HD stations, 504 and 505, I saw the RS Uncorrected errors stop incrementing. RS Corrected errors continued to creep up but with much smaller numbers than what I had seen before attaching the attenuators. 

Signal strength seemed to lock in between 60 and 80, SNR around 31-32. (Before I applied the attenuators signal strength was anywhere from 0 to 100, changing every second, with RS Cor and Unc climbing steadily. Again, this was only with a particular subset of HD stations, "local" ones.)

So far so good. I also experimented with increasing and decreasing the attenuation. At -19dB it was also effective, but all it served to do was decrease the signal strength below 60. At -12 and -9 dB I saw the pixelation return with an increasing RS Uncorrected error count. -16 dB was the right combination for me.


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## Timster-MA

I have read through a lot of this note.

I am in Holliston Mass and am using Verizon FIOS. I changed over from Comcast in the beginning of August. I am using a Tivo S3 with 2 cablecards from Verizon.

Lately (last month or so) the local HD channels are getting lots of pixelization. I have checked over the connections and tried all the suggestions the phone tech support offered.

The thing I noticed was that the signal strength for 504 ( CBSHD ) is significantly lower than other channels like ESPN ( 570 ) or HBO 899+. When the pixelization occurs the signal strength has typically dipped into the low 80s or high 70s.

Today a truck came out and did the following:

1 all connections cables were inspected and tightened
2 ONT cleaned and tightened
3 low pass filter tried
4 cablecard swapped
5 changed HDMI input to HDMI2 on tv
6 tried tivo -> tv via component cable
7 attenuator inserted to get ch 55 down to -17db ( as per some internal Verizon memo )

The first 6 steps had no effect at all on the problem.

The attenuator seems to have improved the watchability but there still is a problem although much less frequent.


My thought is that since the issues appear to be with CBSHD, ABCHD, FoxHD and Ch56HD (all local channels) can I add an Over the Air antenna and try to receive the Local HD OTA, while using the cable for all the other channels? Essentially using both RF inputs to the TIVO at the same time

In the TIVO guide, I read that I can recive 4-1 (CBSHD) as 4 ->| 1 with the skip button inserting the "-".

While I am not happy with this solution, if it fixed my local station issues I could live with it. The problem only occurs on 4-5 channels all betwen 504 and 512 on the Verizon cable channel listing.

So my question here is Can I use an OTA antenna in addition to FIOS cable and tune to 4-1 for CBSHD?, 25-1 for FoxHD? 

If so, will doing this have some programming guide issues? ie I might have to do manual recording for local HD channels?

Any thoughts on this before I go out and try to buy an OTA antenna would be appreciated.

Thanks

Tim


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## jgerber

Amex did give me a full refund of the S3 purchase price, which I'm definitely happy about. I'm still going about trying to determine the cause of the problem and to see if I can fix it. I've got a number of things to try this weekend, including a hard drive replacement, so I'm still hopeful - though I did do the kickstart drive diagnostics, and also pulled it into my PC and ran the WD diagnostics, and everything came out fine. 

Maybe it is in fact the tuner electronics, but I'm still doubtful. I'll be really surprised, and frustrated, if it turns out to be something on the motherboard. That said, at least I am not out the cash and can replace the unit.


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## proudx

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=407006

I know this is related to digital cable signals received over cable cards. But I have discovered a serious problem with the Analog cable reception on the tuners as well. like you guys have discovered using attenuation to lower signal stregth to help reduce or illiminate pixelation I have a theory that the internal AGC mechanism over drives analogs creating dynamic changes in brightness on analog channels creating a flicker like illusion.

If in fact the AGC circuit in the TIVO hds over drives digital/analog signals besides Attenuation is this something Tivo can fix with a software update or option to turn of AGC completely or reduce the aggresiveness of it?

I tried out no less than 5 tivo hds, with manfuacturing dates of Jan,feb,apl and aug and all have this problem.


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## ciucca

proudx said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=407006
> 
> I know this is related to digital cable signals received over cable cards. But I have discovered a serious problem with the Analog cable reception on the tuners as well. like you guys have discovered using attenuation to lower signal stregth to help reduce or illiminate pixelation I have a theory that the internal AGC mechanism over drives analogs creating dynamic changes in brightness on analog channels creating a flicker like illusion.
> 
> If in fact the AGC circuit in the TIVO hds over drives digital/analog signals besides Attenuation is this something Tivo can fix with a software update or option to turn of AGC completely or reduce the aggresiveness of it?
> 
> I tried out no less than 5 tivo hds, with manfuacturing dates of Jan,feb,apl and aug and all have this problem.


I would not hold my breath. I completely agree that there is a major hardware or software problem with the S3 and TIVOHD tuner circuitry. Since it has been years since this problem first appeared with no fix I'm sure it is a problem with the hardware.

Good luck getting agreement from the majority on this board. Most will insist it is Verizon's fault. You want to save some headaches get a FIOS DVR and try it out for a while. It works very well. It has a feature TIVO does not, you can start playing a recording from the beginning if it is in the middle by picking a menu option, I haven't figured out how to do this on a Tivo. Also you can actually continue to watch TV while using the DVR menus to setup and record programs. To be fair the lack of adding additional storage is a negative. You pick your priorities , you want to pay top dollar for a product that causes you frustration, or do you want to just plug in and watch TV?


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## webin

ciucca said:


> Most will insist it is Verizon's fault. You want to save some headaches get a FIOS DVR and try it out for a while.


/sigh, welcome back ciucca. Suggesting someone abandons Tivo instead of engaging in the tivo-related discussion sorta defeats the purpose of having a discussion, doesn't it?

In my opinion, the previous post was quite insightful, offering a "tuner fault" point of view that doesn't get enough coverage in our discussion of the topic.


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## jgerber

jgerber said:


> Amex did give me a full refund of the S3 purchase price, which I'm definitely happy about. I'm still going about trying to determine the cause of the problem and to see if I can fix it. I've got a number of things to try this weekend, including a hard drive replacement, so I'm still hopeful - though I did do the kickstart drive diagnostics, and also pulled it into my PC and ran the WD diagnostics, and everything came out fine.
> 
> Maybe it is in fact the tuner electronics, but I'm still doubtful. I'll be really surprised, and frustrated, if it turns out to be something on the motherboard. That said, at least I am not out the cash and can replace the unit.


My pixelation issue has been resolved by a hard drive replacement. As I stated before, Tivo tech support quickly identified a hardware problem (though the tech erroneously believed it to be with the tuner hardware) and acknowledged that to American Express' extended warranty program, who gave me a full refund of my purchase price 3 months after the factory warranty expired.

Interestingly enough, the 250GB/2MB WD hard drive I removed from the Tivo passes all the diagnostic checks while installed in my PC. Regardless, installation of the new 750GB/16MB Seagate drive ($97 at Fry's) resolved the issue with a couple hours of work. After reading the various theories as to why this has happened with so many S3s, I think that Rich Adams' idea that the 2MB drive cache on the factory hard disk was insufficient to begin with, and one of the 9.x software updates changed something that causes the cache to overflow. Just a theory, I know, but it's as good a theory as I've read so far.

Anyway, obviously my problem isn't the same as those that are dealing with signal strength issues, but overall it was a positive resolution. I'd recommend anyone that has similar problems on an out of warranty Tivo to take similar steps - use extended warranty coverage where possible, and replace your hard drive with one you buy locally that can be returned if it doesn't work.


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## richsadams

jgerber said:


> My pixelation issue has been resolved by a hard drive replacement. As I stated before, Tivo tech support quickly identified a hardware problem (though the tech erroneously believed it to be with the tuner hardware) and acknowledged that to American Express' extended warranty program, who gave me a full refund of my purchase price 3 months after the factory warranty expired.
> 
> Interestingly enough, the 250GB/2MB WD hard drive I removed from the Tivo passes all the diagnostic checks while installed in my PC. Regardless, installation of the new 750GB/16MB Seagate drive ($97 at Fry's) resolved the issue with a couple hours of work. After reading the various theories as to why this has happened with so many S3s, I think that Rich Adams' idea that the 2MB drive cache on the factory hard disk was insufficient to begin with, and one of the 9.x software updates changed something that causes the cache to overflow. Just a theory, I know, but it's as good a theory as I've read so far.
> 
> Anyway, obviously my problem isn't the same as those that are dealing with signal strength issues, but overall it was a positive resolution. I'd recommend anyone that has similar problems on an out of warranty Tivo to take similar steps - use extended warranty coverage where possible, and replace your hard drive with one you buy locally that can be returned if it doesn't work.


Glad to hear things are back to "normal"...plus you have all that extra recording space now! :up: But it's a shame that people are having to replace their hard drives to correct the macroblocking/pixelization problem.

I'm still racking my brain, but the miniscule cache on TiVo's OEM hard drive is the only thing I can think of as the culprit. It appears that resolution to the issue can be resolved by installing a drive with a larger cache (which is almost any drive on the shelf today)...but who knows? 

So if I'm reading your posts right...AMEX refunded your money, but you still have the same S3 and now it works? So a free S3 (less a new hard drive)? What a deal!


----------



## Gregor

Just as a data point, I've seen a pretty good reduction in pixellation over the past few weeks with FIOS.

Dunno if they did something,but things are markedly better.


----------



## jgerber

Well, I doubt Amex is monitoring this forum so I'm OK admitting it  yes - essentially the hardware cost was zero plus the $100 for the new drive, plus a fair amount of frustration and a few hours' work (some opportunity cost there).

I'm following your theory on the drive cache and it does make some sense. If the write queue to the drive overflows the cache, causing the CPU to stay at 100&#37;, it would certainly cause the symptoms I experienced. Someone with a PROM'd S3 would likely be able to figure it out...maybe it doesn't matter though since so many of the cases are resolved with a hard drive replacement. Maybe it's not just the drive cache, but the combination of HDD/RAM/CPU sizing that's not working out. 

I also agree it's a shame that Tivo let this happen, but I doubt they anticipated it. Depending on how many are failing like this under warranty, though, it could be a very expensive planning mistake for them. It's also likely to cost them customers that are out of warranty and don't have the wherewithal to do the drive upgrade. I can imagine it driving customers to their cableco or ATT for a 'managed' DVR appliance.


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## jay_winter

I live in the southeast valley suburbs of Phoenix, and I started out last year with perfect reception from Cox Cable. But, for the past several months I had been putting up with sporadic one-or-two-second macroblocking/freeze-ups on most of my SD digital channels -- hoping that one TiVo update or another would eventually resolve the problem.
My signal levels were always perfect, and uncorrected error counts = 0. 

After much prodding from my wife to do SOMETHING about the problem, I finally had Cox come out to figure out the problem. All of his testing confirmed my own, and even after upgrading the distribution amplifier and splitters in my "smart panel", nothing changed. 

Then he tried something else... he replaced the single-stream cable cards in my S3 to two new multi-stream ones (simply because that was what he had on-hand). Since then all my pixelation problems have vanished.

I also have to plug Cox here, because, despite the complaints posted here from other users, I have had nothing but INCREDIBLE service support from Cox, and every tech they have ever sent out has been thoroughly familiar with cable cards --and TiVo/CC issues in particular.

My only complaint with Cox is that I think their package deal costs too much.
:up::up::up:


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## webin

jay_winter said:


> Then he tried something else... he replaced the single-stream cable cards in my S3 to two new multi-stream ones (simply because that was what he had on-hand). Since then all my pixelation problems have vanished.


I haven't been tracking this factor as well as I should... are pixelation issues showing up just on S-Cards, or also on some M-Cards (among the tivo community at large, not just Jay)? Could the issue be related to manufacturing tolerances of the cable card as opposed to tivo's hardware? Over on the DSLReports forums, there are occasionally people complaining of pixelation on the FiOS set-top-boxes. I'm wondering if those are the new ones using cable card decoders....


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## richsadams

webin said:


> I haven't been tracking this factor as well as I should... are pixelation issues showing up just on S-Cards, or also on some M-Cards (among the tivo community at large, not just Jay)? Could the issue be related to manufacturing tolerances of the cable card as opposed to tivo's hardware? Over on the DSLReports forums, there are occasionally people complaining of pixelation on the FiOS set-top-boxes. I'm wondering if those are the new ones using cable card decoders....


Good points neighbor. Cable cards have long been an issue with pixelization, freezing, etc. When the TiVo HD was first introduced there were a horrific amount of reported problems particularly with Scientific Atlanta (SA) cable cards. TiVo to their credit sent out several software updates to address the problem (although not nearly quickly enough for those suffering) and seems to have addressed most of the issues. However there continue to be cable card issues not only with TiVo but many other applications (visit the AVS Forum and others for more).

Often time problems are resolved by replacing cable cards, but cableco's can be less than cooperative, choosing to blame TiVo's rather than faulty cards, cards that need firmware updates, etc. It's sort of understandable as they have no vested interest in working with anything but their own equipment. They often sight their own/proprietary DVR's as proof that everything is fine...that it's TiVo's fault when something isn't right. An apples and oranges argument for the most part IMO. That's not to say that TiVo's "tolerances" for signal issues aren't narrower or possibly lower than other DVR's, but there are thousands of TiVo's like ours working flawlessly so I don't think we can lay total blame at anyone's doorstep.

That said the only thing most folks having problems have noted if they have SA, Motorola or one of the few other branded cable cards (Motos apparently being fairly stable), however I don't think we've been keeping track of any data points with respect to "S" Vs "M" card problems and AFAIK, Jay's report of switching from "S" to "M" cards is a first with respect to a resolution for his box...good news indeed.

It would be valuable to know what brand and type of cable cards are changed out and what the results were. I've always said that there is no "silver bullet" for a fix, it's likely a laundry list of things that can cause issues, but the more knowledge we have, the better our chances of helping those that follow. :up:


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## richsadams

Here's another post by someone that replaced their cards to resolve a problem:



deantivo said:


> So I replaced the 2 S-cards with a single M-card from Comcast. It's been 2 days and no problems so far (knock on wood).


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## hkancyr

Here's my problem resolution. (Hint:has nothing to do with cablecards or reception)
I have recently received my most recent replacement HDTiVo. This is #3 and they decided to go with new rather than refurbished this time. All fine and dandy but, it did exactly the same as the previous TiVo's. Always, the HD channels pixelate then freeze. This only happens after I update to the newest software. Hmm. The other thing that happens with this upgrade is the ability to use the external storage. So now you know what ended up solving my problem, finally. I properly troubleshot the external HDD, found a problem and replaced it and all problems are now gone. 
Smooth HD sailing here boss.


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## richsadams

hkancyr said:


> Here's my problem resolution. (Hint:has nothing to do with cablecards or reception)
> I have recently received my most recent replacement HDTiVo. This is #3 and they decided to go with new rather than refurbished this time. All fine and dandy but, it did exactly the same as the previous TiVo's. Always, the HD channels pixelate then freeze. This only happens after I update to the newest software. Hmm. The other thing that happens with this upgrade is the ability to use the external storage. So now you know what ended up solving my problem, finally. I properly troubleshot the external HDD, found a problem and replaced it and all problems are now gone.
> Smooth HD sailing here boss.


Thanks for the report and glad to hear things are working now. Expansion drive problems have been the cause of a number of issues from pixelization to freezes to reboots. Often times replacing the eSATA cable takes care of it, sometimes it's the enclosure and others it's the hard drive itself.

Did you figure out what exactly was wrong with your external drive? Can you give us details such as model, when you installed it, etc?

TIA! :up:


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## hkancyr

I installed the My DVR Expander when I installed the TiVoHD, last October. It had been working fine, and still recorded SD programs without a hitch. I did the TiVo tech troubleshooting and somehow didn't find the problem. Then, after much thought, I tried doing a much more complete uninstallation of the Expander drive, since it was now attached to the brand spanking new HDTiVo, and therefore, pretty much empty.
As I recall when I troubleshot with TiVo on the line, I never lost anything from the Expander. While this seemed marvelous at the time, I see how improper it was now.
So in the process I disconnected the Expander from the TiVo and restarted it and ran it without the Expander and it ran beautifully. Hmm, I says, this would seem to indicate an Expander HDD problem. I plugged it in again and set it up and the HDTiVo ran as screwey as before. 
I immediately jumped on the Western Digital page and typed in the serial number of my Expander, it was still within the guarantee period and I arranged for an RMA swap and they sent me another Expander and it has been working as advertised. I don't know what the problem with the original drive was, but I used my original eSATA cord with the new drive, so that wasn't the problem.
The interesting bit is that when I called TiVo to tell them that I had it all figured out, I told them that I had purchased the Expander from them and I wanted another one, the rep advised me to hold on and he was going to check on that, then they disconnected. I haven't even called them back as I had already done the RMA with WD. I thought it was interesting that they didn't immediately shut me down on the Expander RMA question. I thought I had read here that they don't service the My DVR Expander, maybe they do.


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## richsadams

hkancyr said:


> I installed the My DVR Expander when I installed the TiVoHD, last October. It had been working fine, and still recorded SD programs without a hitch.<snip>


Sorry to hear that your old My DVR Expander gave up, but excellent to hear that your new one is working as advertised. :up:

There are several posts indicating that TiVo stepped up to the plate and replaced Expanders that had been purchased from them, but others have said that they directed them to WD. 

Just good to know things are back in order though. Enjoy!


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## Timster-MA

Another followup for me. We had a visit from a tech who replaced the ONT on Friday 10/3. We saw a bit of improvement immediately but it was nowhere near being resolved. We went on vacation for the next 2 weeks but recordings done since that visit seem to show marked improvement as does live tv.

I am wondering if something happened at the central office to improve our problem? I am seeing quite a few less RSC errors and almost no RSU errors on the affected channels.

Tim


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## substance12

I didn't have any pixelation issues until the olympics then it was bad on nbc. Then I started noticing it on PBS HD. Now with the latest FIOS channel update the pixelation is much more common.

1) am I alone in this?

2) is the attenuator fix the solution?


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## Timster-MA

Of the 7 things that the Verizon tech tried the one that worked the best for me was the attenuators. It didn't go to zero, but the pixelization problem got much better once we added them.


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## substance12

i forgot to add that I have audio drop outs when the pixelation occurs. I'm not sure if I should assume that everyone knows that or if those are 2 specific issues.


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## V7Goose

Hey all, it's been a couple of months since I was on here - doing a lot of traveling and stuff - so I'm not sure what all I missed. From a quick review of just a couple of pages in this thread and one other, the status of most things looks pretty much the same. But I DO have some new experience to report.

You may remember me as the one who did a lot of the yelling a while back that most FiOS pixelation was caused by dirty signals, and I had been 100% successful in forcing them to find and fix the problems without resorting to attenuators. Well, FiOS did the channel realignment in my area several weeks ago, and my life is not as simple any more.  I don't have all the answers yet, but I do have some detailed observations and comparisons to report.

Immediately after the realignment I began having major problems on all channels over about six different frequencies, just like I have reported in the past (and the FiOS STB showed errors on those same channels too). This time FiOS was MUCH better at listening to me and taking my documentation to locate and fix the problem; it turned out to be identical as before, and they fixed it within two days at the central office. :up: But alas, not everything is perfect.

About a week later I stated noticing bad pixelation on a few channels on my S3. After spending the huge amount of time again to test and make notes on every channel and frequency, I was NOT seeing the same pattern of all channels on a specific frequency being bad, so this was a different problem. In addition, the FiOS STB was not reporting errors on the channels where I had problems on the S3. I need to note here that the S3 is my MAIN box - I rarely watch the STB or my TiVo HD in the bedroom. But now that I had a new pixelation problem on the S3 that didn't match the past symptoms I started doing more testing and comparisons. In short, the current problems are ONLY on my S3 and they seem to be related to the tuners.

In trying to isolate the problem I swapped both cable cards between the S3 and the HD (all four are identical Motorola single stream cards). The problems did not follow the cards. Then I physically moved the S3 to the bedroom to hook it up to the same cable feed the HD had been using. Problem remained identical in the S3. It seems unlikely to me that it is a bad signal this time if the HD and STB don't report any errors on the channels the S3 is choking on. So now I am convinced the problem is internal to the S3 and not related to the drives (since it is only on specific channels). I did open the box and re-seat the tuner cables just in case they had developed some surface contact issues, but that made no difference. For now I am scratching my head and trying to come up with some new ideas to try other than dumping a very expensive two year old S3 with lifetime service.  Thankfully most channels still play perfectly.

Just thought I'd share those experiences. Any ideas will be appreciated!


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## Timster-MA

Most of my problems occurred on my S3 after the channel realignment and most of the problems seem to have gone away now that I'm running with attenuators to get the SNR set to 31.

I feel your pain. I have bought a WD 500G drive so my investment is now
well over $500 for the S3 with a 3 year contract and the external drive.

Since our problem was on the local channels I toyed with using Verizon's DVR to record the local HD channels or getting an OTA antenna to bypass using cable for the local channels.

Thankfully, the problem for us has gotten much better so we see only 4-5 glitches in an hour. This is manageable considering that we at one point had nearly unintelligible dialog for minutes at a time.


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## richsadams

V7Goose said:


> Hey all, it's been a couple of months since I was on here - doing a lot of traveling and stuff - so I'm not sure what all I missed. From a quick review of just a couple of pages in this thread and one other, the status of most things looks pretty much the same. But I DO have some new experience to report. <snip>


Welcome back! It's great to have so much detailed information. :up:

It does indeed sound like that specific S3 is having problems and if it's only on a select few channels I'd agree it's in the tuning. I guess I'd go back and try the attenuator fix. The only other remedy would be to get them to replace the cable cards and see if that helps...although if you already swapped cards with your TiVo HD it seems like that's not it. It also doesn't seem like it would be a hard drive issue as you should experience problems across the board, at least with most or all of the HD channels.

If all of that doesn't work I guess the next stop would be calling TiVo to get a replacement. Spending another $149 would be aggravating, but it looks like you've done your homework (and then some) and I'm at a loss as to what else to do. Perhaps sharper minds can prevail here.

Best of luck and let us know what you end up doing.


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## JacksTiVo

hkancyr said:


> I installed the My DVR Expander when I installed the TiVoHD, last October. It had been working fine, and still recorded SD programs without a hitch. I did the TiVo tech troubleshooting and somehow didn't find the problem. Then, after much thought, I tried doing a much more complete uninstallation of the Expander drive, since it was now attached to the brand spanking new HDTiVo, and therefore, pretty much empty.
> As I recall when I troubleshot with TiVo on the line, I never lost anything from the Expander. While this seemed marvelous at the time, I see how improper it was now.
> So in the process I disconnected the Expander from the TiVo and restarted it and ran it without the Expander and it ran beautifully. Hmm, I says, this would seem to indicate an Expander HDD problem. I plugged it in again and set it up and the HDTiVo ran as screwey as before.
> I immediately jumped on the Western Digital page and typed in the serial number of my Expander, it was still within the guarantee period and I arranged for an RMA swap and they sent me another Expander and it has been working as advertised. I don't know what the problem with the original drive was, but I used my original eSATA cord with the new drive, so that wasn't the problem.
> The interesting bit is that when I called TiVo to tell them that I had it all figured out, I told them that I had purchased the Expander from them and I wanted another one, the rep advised me to hold on and he was going to check on that, then they disconnected. I haven't even called them back as I had already done the RMA with WD. I thought it was interesting that they didn't immediately shut me down on the Expander RMA question. I thought I had read here that they don't service the My DVR Expander, maybe they do.


I have an S3 unit. As I reported on another thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=407509), I had video freezing and audio stuttering that I traced to my DVR Expander or the eSATA cable. The problem seemed to clear up when I adjusted the eSATA cable so I assumed that was what had caused the problem, but over this weekend the problem reappeared. I replaced the eSATA cable yesterday, but it did not help. Tonight I remove the My DVR Expander and the TiVo S3 has been working trouble free without it. I bought the WD unit from TiVo last Nov. 6 so it is still under warranty. I spoke with TiVo tech support and they have no history of this issue. Since hkancyr and my My DVR Expander hard drives are about one year old, then perhaps these units start to fail after one year.
Per TiVo the warranty is from WD and I have requested an RMA and replacement from them.


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## billbutter

I've been reading through this read (well it's LONG so I've been skimming) because I am having stuttering/audio dropouts ever since the Olympics started.

I've uploaded a video of it here: 




Here are the details: 
- I have a Tivo HD with a 500gb MyDVR Expander, 1-year old
- Problem is with both HD and SD Channels
- Major HD networks are fine (NBC, ABC, etc.)
- My signal strength is very strong for all channels
- Reboot fixes problem for about 20 minutes
- Problem is there both watching live and watching recorded shows, consistently in the same spots
- Does not randomly just freeze or reboot like a lot of the other Tivo's are doing in this thread

I am really about to kill myself here. From watching the video, is this what everyone is experiencing?


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## JacksTiVo

billbutter said:


> I've been reading through this read (well it's LONG so I've been skimming) because I am having stuttering/audio dropouts ever since the Olympics started.
> 
> I've uploaded a video of it here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the details:
> - I have a Tivo HD with a 500gb MyDVR Expander, 1-year old
> - Problem is with both HD and SD Channels
> - Major HD networks are fine (NBC, ABC, etc.)
> - My signal strength is very strong for all channels
> - Reboot fixes problem for about 20 minutes
> - Problem is there both watching live and watching recorded shows, consistently in the same spots
> - Does not randomly just freeze or reboot like a lot of the other Tivo's are doing in this thread
> 
> I am really about to kill myself here. From watching the video, is this what everyone is experiencing?


You may be suffering with the same problem I described in last evenings posting. If you are willing to lose all of your recorded shows, then try disconnecting the My DVR Expander and see if that fixes the problem. My pixelation and sound stuttering disappeared after removing it.

Before removing the My DVR Expander, I too also had the problem clear up after a reboot and then reappear 20 or so minutes later. Perhaps as the 30 minute buffer fills the problem reoccurs.
I am replacing the WD - My DVR Expander since it is still under warranty. I received an RMA from WD.

It was a pleasure last night to watch TV without the stuttering and pixelation.

BTW, during my conversation with TiVo tech support, I confirmed with him that when checking the channel strength, the TiVo bypasses the buffer and hard drive. (That is why you get a warning message that any recordings will be interrupted when doing the test.) Since during the channel checks there was no stuttering, it gave me a clue that it was possibly the external hard drive.


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## richsadams

JacksTiVo said:


> BTW, during my conversation with TiVo tech support, I confirmed with him that when checking the channel strength, the TiVo bypasses the buffer and hard drive. (That is why you get a warning message that any recordings will be interrupted when doing the test.) Since during the channel checks there was no stuttering, it gave me a clue that it was possibly the external hard drive.


That's a very good tidbit of info and would indeed be helpful to anyone troubleshooting these kinds of issues. :up: :up:


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## billbutter

JacksTiVo said:


> You may be suffering with the same problem I described in last evenings posting. If you are willing to lose all of your recorded shows, then try disconnecting the My DVR Expander and see if that fixes the problem. My pixelation and sound stuttering disappeared after removing it.


That is very helpful, thanks for sharing that. Do you know how long the warranty lasts? I won't be able to get my serial number until I get home tonight. I've had it for a year and 3 days.


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## JacksTiVo

billbutter said:


> That is very helpful, thanks for sharing that. Do you know how long the warranty lasts? I won't be able to get my serial number until I get home tonight. I've had it for a year and 3 days.


It is one year. However, if you did not register it, they assume it was manufactured Dec. 2007, at least with my serial number.


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## billbutter

So just an update to my post yesterday:

- I disconnected the MyDVR Expander and rebooted the Tivo
- Worked fine for over an hour, although I didn't change the channel from TBS
- Changed the channel and then when I changed back to TBS the problem resurfaced

At this point I did a signal strength test to see what was going on. Here's the weird part: On the channels that had the stutter the signal was at 81%. Meanwhile the good channels (NBC, CBS, etc.) were down to 55%. I don't know what to make of it. I made sure all the cable connections were tight and nothing changed. What else could the problem possibly be?


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## JacksTiVo

billbutter said:


> So just an update to my post yesterday:
> 
> - I disconnected the MyDVR Expander and rebooted the Tivo
> - Worked fine for over an hour, although I didn't change the channel from TBS
> - Changed the channel and then when I changed back to TBS the problem resurfaced
> 
> At this point I did a signal strength test to see what was going on. Here's the weird part: On the channels that had the stutter the signal was at 81%. Meanwhile the good channels (NBC, CBS, etc.) were down to 55%. I don't know what to make of it. I made sure all the cable connections were tight and nothing changed. What else could the problem possibly be?


Your problem is probably due to low signal strength. Pixelation can be caused by a weak signal. Per a tech at Verizon FiOS the signal needs to be in the 98-100% range for HD reception. With Verizon FiOS service the ONT converts the optical signal to electronic digital and the signal strength should be constant on all stations.

If you have traditional coaxial cable service then any deterioration of the service cable into your home or within the house can cause signal drop at different signal frequencies due to leakage. Has your cable provider visited your home to check their signal?

How many splitters are in your system?


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## richsadams

billbutter said:


> So just an update to my post yesterday:
> 
> - I disconnected the MyDVR Expander and rebooted the Tivo
> - Worked fine for over an hour, although I didn't change the channel from TBS
> - Changed the channel and then when I changed back to TBS the problem resurfaced
> 
> At this point I did a signal strength test to see what was going on. Here's the weird part: On the channels that had the stutter the signal was at 81%. Meanwhile the good channels (NBC, CBS, etc.) were down to 55%. I don't know what to make of it. I made sure all the cable connections were tight and nothing changed. What else could the problem possibly be?


Yep...what Jack said...it's the signal. Probably a bad coax cable, splitter, etc. It's surprising that you're seeing anything at 55% even if they appear okay. If all else fails, get your cable company to come out and test everything from the box outside in...or vice-versa. At some point the signal is breaking down.


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## JacksTiVo

I received my replacement Western Digital - My DVR Expander yesterday. I reported the warranty problem to WD on Tuesday evening and they shipped it Wednesday "2nd Day Air" from California. Now that is what I would call excellent customer support.

My S3 with the replacement My DVR Expander is so far working just fine.


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## richsadams

JacksTiVo said:


> I received my replacement Western Digital - My DVR Expander yesterday. I reported the warranty problem to WD on Tuesday evening and they shipped it Wednesday "2nd Day Air" from California. Now that is what I would call excellent customer support.
> 
> My S3 with the replacement My DVR Expander is so far working just fine.


Nice! It's not your grandfather's WD anymore it seems. :up:


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## hkancyr

Yeah baby,
Glad to see so many problems getting fixed with new Expanders! 
Side note: My Dual Tuner SD TiVo internal 500 Gig drive just died too. Fortunately I had the original 80 Gig drive with Sys 9.1 on it and I installed it and that fixed it. I checked out the Seagate site and that drive was under a 5 year warantee and it too will be replaced for nuttin. I can hardly stand all this good news.


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## Flyinace2000

Little help. I have FIOS and TivoHD. I am getting pixelation on 3 stations DiscoveryHD, UniversalHD, and WealthHD (who cares honestly). Anyway. I have rebooted and tried a few combination of attenuators with no luck. So far the problem MAY be asociated with Cable Card 2, but haven't been able to confirm on CC1. Any ideas what to try? SNR is 36 and signal stregnth is 100 (unless the station is pixelating and it varies 70-100)

Help!

Thanks


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## ferky1

Not a happy camper here, and it sounds like I'm not alone.

Comcast Philly customer here with a TivoHD and M-card. My first M-card crapped out after a few days and I got a new card 2 weeks ago that has been working fine. Just yesterday I noticed pixilation on just one network HD channel and today things have gotten a lot worse.

My HD networks, certain HD premiums and a few other digital channels are pixilating and even going out entirely. Signal strength on these channels generally stays in the 30-45 range, sometimes it goes all the way to 0 and the screen greys out (CNN, CSPAN and others have been at 0 all day), other times the signal will work its way up into the 60s and the pixilating will stop for a few minutes. Nearly all of my other channels, including some HD premiums and SD networks are all in the 99-100 range.

The line to the Tivo is behind a 2-way splitter---amp---4-way splitter, so I bypassed the amp and splitter, restarted and nothing changed.

I've read a lot of posts here and the talk about filters and attenuators is confusing and I can't even be sure if that's the fix for me. I definitely don't understand the 'db' talk and hesitate to buy hardware that I don't know how to use. 

Please help, I've had Tivo since 2000 and want this to work so badly. I am no fan of Comcast's DVR, but at least I can watch all of my channels in my bedroom without having to deal with this crap. Tivo is close to losing a long-time supporter. . .


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## subgenius37

So I had some Tivo HD Pixelation problems with FiOS, I have 2 Tivo HDs and I was having problems on both so I knew it wasn't just the tivo box. I tried the attenuators, that Verizon provided, to dampen the signal and that helped some but didn't really fix it. I had Comcast before with multi-streaming cards and never had a problem. Just so you know FiOS has multi-streaming cards, they may not have a number in there systems and the techs may not know about them but if you are insistent you can get them. It took me two tries and I finally got some. That didn't fix my problem either. But it was cheaper so that was a plus. So what finally fixed my problem was two diplexers http://www.beachaudio.com/Dynaflex/S-252-p-70205.html 2 bucks a piece. Basically I have a MOCHA based FiOS router for my internet and the internet signal was bleeding into the TV signal and TIVO couldn't process it. Oddly enough you plug the wall end into the "out" (or end with only 1 side), and the tivo end into antenna end. What does it do, it acts as a filter and strips out the signal issues. Added plus, I don't need the attenuators anymore! I have NO problem watching a 37-38 DB signal at 100% strength. Verizon didn't know what the heck they are/were so I had to buy them myself. Hope this helps others.


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## substance12

subgenius37 said:


> So I had some Tivo HD Pixelation problems with FiOS, I have 2 Tivo HDs and I was having problems on both so I knew it wasn't just the tivo box. I tried the attenuators, that Verizon provided, to dampen the signal and that helped some but didn't really fix it. I had Comcast before with multi-streaming cards and never had a problem. Just so you know FiOS has multi-streaming cards, they may not have a number in there systems and the techs may not know about them but if you are insistent you can get them. It took me two tries and I finally got some. That didn't fix my problem either. But it was cheaper so that was a plus. So what finally fixed my problem was two diplexers http://www.beachaudio.com/Dynaflex/S-252-p-70205.html 2 bucks a piece. Basically I have a MOCHA based FiOS router for my internet and the internet signal was bleeding into the TV signal and TIVO couldn't process it. Oddly enough you plug the wall end into the "out" (or end with only 1 side), and the tivo end into antenna end. What does it do, it acts as a filter and strips out the signal issues. Added plus, I don't need the attenuators anymore! I have NO problem watching a 37-38 DB signal at 100% strength. Verizon didn't know what the heck they are/were so I had to buy them myself. Hope this helps others.


you said you bought 2 diplexers. where did you place the 2nd one?


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## richsadams

subgenius37 said:


> So what finally fixed my problem was two diplexers http://www.beachaudio.com/Dynaflex/S-252-p-70205.html 2 bucks a piece.


Nice! Thanks for the info...worth a try! :up:


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## Frederick H.

substance12 said:


> you said you bought 2 diplexers. where did you place the 2nd one?


Good question! And I add another: How did you figure this out and find a product to help fix it?

I did some research and found:
http://dynaflex-inc.com/pdf/Telephone&VideoAccessories.pdf

Page G-14

My guess is that he needs one for each Tivo. Each one separates out the video and internet signal that Verizon is carrying on one cable. Once the internet signal is removed the Video signal is no longer polluted by the internet signal. The connection that is only internet is unused. He could probably split the video-only signal again to send to the second Tivo if they were near each other, otherwise one for each Tivo.

Another question: Did you turn off the power to the router to see if it cleared up the pixialation? If this confirms it is a bleeding signal problem it would help other diagnose the probelm.

Thanks


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## substance12

Frederick H. said:


> Good question! And I add another: How did you figure this out and find a product to help fix it?
> 
> I did some research and found:
> http://dynaflex-inc.com/pdf/Telephone&VideoAccessories.pdf
> 
> Page G-14
> 
> My guess is that he needs one for each Tivo. Each one separates out the video and internet signal that Verizon is carrying on one cable. Once the internet signal is removed the Video signal is no longer polluted by the internet signal. The connection that is only internet is unused. He could probably split the video-only signal again to send to the second Tivo if they were near each other, otherwise one for each Tivo.
> 
> Another question: Did you turn off the power to the router to see if it cleared up the pixialation? If this confirms it is a bleeding signal problem it would help other diagnose the probelm.
> 
> Thanks


I should read better. I just saw subgenius37 had 2 tivos. obviously he put one on each.

I think I can guess at how subgenius37 will answer your question. The use of a low pass filter (LPF) is suggested on the tivo forums as well as here and quite possibly on dslreports. but finding a lpf is such a pain in the ass that people opt to use a diplexer.

I myself have tried disconnecting my actiontec and it didn't clear anything up... so I'm skeptical. Granted I tried this for less than 5 minutes...

I ordered a diplexer from partsexpress. when it arrives in a few days i'll report back. also make sure to get a 75ohm terminator for the satellite end of the diplexer.


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## webin

Frederick H. said:


> Good question! And I add another: How did you figure this out and find a product to help fix it?


He most likely read this post. We were discussing diplexers at some point many pages back, but hadn't come to any real conclusion about them. I bought one at Lowes that turned out to be the wrong product (it has too large a frequency range). The MOCA-bleed is still an area of troubleshooting that could use more testing. I had Verizon turn MOCA off on my OTN (in favor of ethernet internet), but still use the actiontec router (with no coax connected). I still experience pixellation from time to time, usually only minor, but enough to ruin a show about once a month or so.


----------



## subgenius37

substance12 said:


> you said you bought 2 diplexers. where did you place the 2nd one?


Sorry I wasn't clear in my other post. I have two TivoHD boxes so 1 for each box.


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## subgenius37

webin said:


> He most likely read this post. We were discussing diplexers at some point many pages back, but hadn't come to any real conclusion about them. I bought one at Lowes that turned out to be the wrong product (it has too large a frequency range). The MOCA-bleed is still an area of troubleshooting that could use more testing. I had Verizon turn MOCA off on my OTN (in favor of ethernet internet), but still use the actiontec router (with no coax connected). I still experience pixellation from time to time, usually only minor, but enough to ruin a show about once a month or so.


Correct I read a post on another thread, which I also responded to. So thanks to everyone on this forum that was discussing it. I didn't find a place on this forum on where to buy a diplexer that worked and the use of multi-streaming cards so I thought I would tell my story. Once I got the multi-streaming cards the pixelation switched in appearance, hard to describe but my brain some how saw a difference. I also noticed that the pixelation only really started to appear with medium to high internet traffic, so I was able to test and determine that there was positive linear relationship on internet traffic and pixelation. A test may be to start high volume download etc and see if this increases pixelation.

After I noticed the correlation I bought the diplexers that people were describing on this forum and it fixed my problem. Thanks again.


----------



## webin

subgenius37 said:


> I also noticed that the pixelation only really started to appear with medium to high internet traffic, so I was able to test and determine that there was positive linear relationship on internet traffic and pixelation. A test may be to start high volume download etc and see if this increases pixelation.


I have looked for a correlation between pixelation and internet usage, but have been unable to find a connection. When I was still using the moca connection for Internet, I would queue up several linux distributions in BitTorrent, and let them all start at once. These files are several gigs in size, and have enough people seeding them, that you can hit your download cap and keep it pegged for 10-15 minutes easily. Even with this fire hose of bandwidth usage, I wasn't able to detect any increase in pixelation on my traditionaly flakey channels.


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## sandun

Hi,
I have read through most of the posts on this thread, and most posts seems to indicate issues with either content provider signals (Comcast/Verizon etc.) or hard drive issues.

I currently have 2 TivoHD units. One (with 750GB internal drive) have been working fine for the last 11 months with one m-card (Comcast). I bought this brand new. There are no pixelation issues on this unit.

The second TivoHD - which I recently got, is a refurb from Tivo.com. Briefly tested the unit (i.e works OK). Then I replaced the internal drive with a new 640GB WD green drive from NewEgg. Comcast came in last week to install a m-card. At the same time, they replaced the 2-way coax splitter I had (I think it was a RadioShock "gold", -3db) with a generic "silver colored" they had with them. (Not sure why they had to replace it).

Now that I have recordings on the unit and I use it (its in the bedroom), I have noticed a lot of pixelations. That is, see frequent "blocks", "tears" etc. on the picture (has not frozen yet).

The interesting thing is, that these artifacts can also be seen on downloaded video podcasts as well (DL.tv, CNET, NYTimes, Onion News etc). Has anyone else noticed this?

Next, I transfered an HD program from the other (good) TivoHD - and it played without any issues.

Over the weekend, I will transfer and playback a few more shows - if the artifacts show up, then I can assume that the issue is related to the hard drive (in this case, my 604GB hard). (which means, I can test again after replacing the HD).


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## substance12

webin said:


> I have looked for a correlation between pixelation and internet usage, but have been unable to find a connection. When I was still using the moca connection for Internet, I would queue up several linux distributions in BitTorrent, and let them all start at once. These files are several gigs in size, and have enough people seeding them, that you can hit your download cap and keep it pegged for 10-15 minutes easily. Even with this fire hose of bandwidth usage, I wasn't able to detect any increase in pixelation on my traditionaly flakey channels.


i tested unplugging my AT router altogether and i still had the pixelation. my thought, and this is just a thought, is that the moca signal is still coming from the ONT.


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## dashby61

I have Verizon FiOS and recently purchased a new Tivo HD from Costco.com. Verizon came and installed two S-Cards. They also had a channel lineup change right around the time of the installation. I have been using an SD Tivo with no issues, but the new Tivo HD had severe pixellation issues on only one channel.

After reading through this thread, I took the advice from tivo.com to check the signal strength on the problem HD channel (550 USA network, especially during NCIS). Turns out that the signal was easy to check using Tivo, and that the signal strength was wildly fluctuating. When it would drop low, the pixelation would occur behind the on-screen meter. I passed this to the Verizon tech support, who are sending out a repairman to install a low-pass filter or diplexer in the cable line. As per FiOS tech support, M-cards are not yet available in Texas or I would have had him switch out my S-cards and save a little money in the process.

This whole thing has caused me to work up a quick troubleshooting guide that goes from free to expensive. In my opinion, the best way to go about fixing pixelation issues is:

1) With FiOS, use the advice from http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...quality_issues_with_Verizon_FiOS_service.html to see if the signal strength is the problem. If so, call Verizon to fix it.

2) Reboot the Tivo

3) Check your connections to make sure the cable is on tight

4) If you use an expander, try unplugging it to see if that fixes the problem. If so, before you return it, you may want to replace the cable to see if that works. The cable with some of the expanders is sub-quality. If you don't want to do that, or it doesn't work, you may want to get a replacement from Western Digital if it's still under warranty. If it's out of warranty, either go without it or try buying a new one -- but test it right away!

5) If you don't use Verizon, you may want to try ordering a cheap $2 low-pass filter (attenuator) or diplexer and put it in the cable line before the Tivo. This may fix the problem, and you're only out $2. See http://www.beachaudio.com/Dynaflex/S-252-p-70205.html.

6) The hard drive in the Tivo may have too little cache and may be filling up and overflowing. If so, you may want to replace the hard drive (but this is not for the faint of heart). Replace it with a drive that has much more on-board cache.

7) Finally, if all that doesn't work, time to see if Tivo can replace your Tivo HD under warranty. If not, time to either buy a new Tivo or, yikes, go with the cable company's DVR -- but only under gunpoint.


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## jburvant

Ive been reading through this thread to get some tips on dealing with my pixellation problems. First off heres my setup: My cable provider is Charter, I have the 180 GB Tivo HD, Im using a Motorola M-card, and the cable from the wall is going straight to the Tivo( no splitters).
I receive about 40 HD channels and have noticed pixellation on 6 channels. All 6 have tons of RS Uncorrected. This is what their diagnostics looked like:
- 707 ABC HD, 710 CBS HD, 712 PBS HD
o Frequency = 759,000 KHz
o Signal Strength = 44-56, sometimes drops to 0
o SNR = 29-30 dB

- 730 DISC HD, 740 HDNET, 741 HDNETMV
o Frequency = 753,000 KHz
o Signal Strength = 44-56, sometimes drops to 0
o SNR = 29-30 dB

Here is a sample of channels that work perfectly:
- 703 CW HD
o Frequency = 777,000 KHz
o Signal Strength = 81-87
o SNR = 34 dB
- 706 NBC HD
o Frequency = 627,000 KHz
o Signal Strength = 93-100
o SNR = 36-37 dB
- 708 FOX HD
o Frequency = 777,000 KHz
o Signal Strength = 81-87
o SNR = 34-35 dB
- 720 ESPN HD 
o Frequency = 825,000 KHz
o Signal strength = 81-93
o SNR = 34-35 dB
- 731 TNT HD
o Frequency = 807,000 KHz
o Signal Strength = 81-87 
o SNR = 34 dB
- 750 HBO HD
o Frequency = 741,000 KHz
o Signal Strength = 62-68 
o SNR = 32 dB

Now it seems to me that those of you with FIOS needed to knock down their SNR a bit, and maybe, in contrast, I need to boost my signal to get those pixellating channels above the 32 dB SNR level. Does that seem right? Could a signal booster from radio shack do the trick? or maybe just replace the cable company provided coaxial cable with a quality one?


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## rickwagner50

I bought 2 TIVO HD's about 5 months ago, same time I signed up for Verizon FIOS. The install went fine, but I noticed one of them had pixelation (call this one HD TIVO #1). The one that had pixelation issues (HD TIVO #1) did not have a HD TV, so it was obviously only on the SD channels. Some were better than others. I lived with it and it was never all that bad but noticeable.

My HD TIVO #2 was installed in my basement on a 42" HD TV and has never had a single problem at all, not a single pixelation issue. 

So yesterday I bought a sweet 42" HD TV for HD TIVO #1 that has the pixelation issues and guess what? Still has pixelation issues, but not so much on the SD channels - more on the HD channels. So, I unplug HD TIVO #1 that has pixelation issues and plug it into the basement to replace HD TIVO #2 that works fine to check the connections/wiring. There is still a pixelation issue using the same connections and TV that works fine with HD TIVO #2. So, the issue is local to the HD TIVO #1 box somehow, not the wiring or signal strength at all!

I have replaced the HD on HD TIVO #1 (moved up to 500 gig), so I am thinking to try another HD that has bigger cache or to put back the original HD that I still have lying around. HD TIVO #2 still has the original hard drive with an external 640 gig SATA drive - no problems at all, as stated earlier.

Another thing I would like to try to isolate as possible problem is the cable cards in TIVO #1. Anybody know how I can remove them from TIVO #1 and put them in TIVO #2 without having to get Verizon FIOS bozos come out to the house? This way I can see if the cablecards in TIVO #1 work fine in TIVO #2 to remove that as an issue. Last thing I can imagine as a possible issue is the tuner board in the TIVO box or the motherboard losing bits somehow, which would be very bad indeed.

This is actually a perfect scenario to isolate *my* problem, as I have one that work perfectly and one that does not so I can mix and match until it works fine. Any other suggestions?


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## V7Goose

FiOS does not pair cable cards (at least not in Texas), so just pull them out and swap them. It only takes about two minutes for the box to recognize the new cards and start working. You don't need to do anything or call anybody. You will get a message at first to re-do guided setup, but just ignore it.

If the cable cards don't identify the problem, swap the hard drives. Of course, make sure to keep any external drives connected to the same internal drive when you move them. Should be very easy to identify the problem this way, just like like you said. If it turns out to be a bad box that you need to send back to TiVo, make sure to put the stock drive back in before you send it! Good luck.


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## rickwagner50

V7Goose said:


> FiOS does not pair cable cards (at least not in Texas), so just pull them out and swap them. It only takes about two minutes for the box to recognize the new cards and start working. You don't need to do anything or call anybody. You will get a message at first to re-do guided setup, but just ignore it.


Can I do this on the fly, or do I need to power down before removal/installation, then power back up?

Thanks!


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## V7Goose

No need to do anything at all except just eject the cards.


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## rickwagner50

Well I have determined that it is definitely something in the hardware on TIVO #1 for me. Swapping hard drives and cablecards did nothing to resolve the problem. I have effectively isolated the issue to the HD TIVO itself and not FIOS, cabling, hard drive or cablecards causing the problem.

So now my next problem is how to get this fixed? I bought the HD TIVO back around July. Is it still under warranty? WIll TIVO replace it or charge me? I also have lifetime on it - will that be transferrable?

Thanks


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## richsadams

rickwagner50 said:


> Well I have determined that it is definitely something in the hardware on TIVO #1 for me. Swapping hard drives and cablecards did nothing to resolve the problem. I have effectively isolated the issue to the HD TIVO itself and not FIOS, cabling, hard drive or cablecards causing the problem.
> 
> So now my next problem is how to get this fixed? I bought the HD TIVO back around July. Is it still under warranty? WIll TIVO replace it or charge me? I also have lifetime on it - will that be transferrable?
> 
> Thanks


TiVo has a one year parts warranty so you can call TiVo and get a replacement for $49. They can take care of the lifetime transfer no problem. Do NOT tell them that you opened the box to swap hard drives...that voids the warranty.

Sounds like a faulty tuner IMO. Nice job of trouble shooting! :up: Most folks wouldn't go to that extent and that gives you a very solid diagnosis when you call TiVo to get it replaced. I've had only one poor experience with TiVo customer service (although I've only dealt with them about four or five times and the negative was with the billing dept.), but if for some reason the first person you talk to doesn't agree to send out a new one just ask for a supervisor. Be firm but polite and you should get taken care of in one call.

Thanks for keeping us posted!


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## rickwagner50

Well except for having to wait over 20 minutes to get someone on the phone I had a very good experience getting TIVO to send me a replacement. They are going to charge me the $49 for replacement, which is OK by me. I just want one to work and they agreed that the lifetime would transfer from the old one to the replacement HD TIVO. They never asked about if I opened it up or not. I will be putting the original hard drive back in before I send it back, of course.

Thanks for the help in diagnosing this and hopefully it helps to dispell some myths and add some clarity to what could cause pixelation issues. 

I'll keep you posted when I get the replacement and what I find with it.


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## richsadams

rickwagner50 said:


> Well except for having to wait over 20 minutes to get someone on the phone I had a very good experience getting TIVO to send me a replacement. <snip>


Sounds good and thanks for reporting back. :up:


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## nigebj

rickwagner50 said:


> Well I have determined that it is definitely something in the hardware on TIVO #1 for me.


Was the problem evident in recordings ? i.e. if you immediately skipped back - did you still see issues ?
I ask as I have had issues, but they are definitely only in the playback - rewind/replay would always be OK, whether off of the 30 minute buffer, or a prior recording. I suspect the disk cache, or possibly available processing RAM as this is/was mainly evident on HD. Have just swapped to a WD EVCS - so hoping it's gone ... but who knows, of course the machine hasn't been under load today at all!


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## richsadams

nigebj said:


> Have just swapped to a WD EVCS - so hoping it's gone ... but who knows, of course the machine hasn't been under load today at all!


Let us know how your WD10EVCS works out and if you are still seeing any issues (and if so, what they are). The drive is fairly new and so far others are reporting great success with it. All of the data points we can get are helpful to those that follow. TIA! :up:


----------



## webin

rickwagner50 said:


> Well I have determined that it is definitely something in the hardware on TIVO #1 for me. Swapping hard drives and cablecards did nothing to resolve the problem. I have effectively isolated the issue to the HD TIVO itself and not FIOS, cabling, hard drive or cablecards causing the problem.


I like this diagnostic data you've collected. To me, it implies that some of the tuner cards (not the cable cards) aren't quite as "strong" as others. They could still be within acceptable specs, but something with the FiOS signal is requiring the tuner cards to have higher manufacturing tolerances.


----------



## rickwagner50

nigebj said:


> Was the problem evident in recordings ? i.e. if you immediately skipped back - did you still see issues ?
> I ask as I have had issues, but they are definitely only in the playback - rewind/replay would always be OK, whether off of the 30 minute buffer, or a prior recording. I suspect the disk cache, or possibly available processing RAM as this is/was mainly evident on HD. Have just swapped to a WD EVCS - so hoping it's gone ... but who knows, of course the machine hasn't been under load today at all!


My problems were always in the same spot when I would rewind and replay from saved shows. In other words, if there was a line of pixelation at a certain spot on the screen at a specific spot in the show, it would be in the exact same spot if I rewound and played it again. So it definitely seemed like a tuner issue. And I never saw any *additional* pixelation after rewind and replay or playing from prior recordings.


----------



## rickwagner50

rickwagner50 said:


> Well except for having to wait over 20 minutes to get someone on the phone I had a very good experience getting TIVO to send me a replacement. They are going to charge me the $49 for replacement, which is OK by me.


Found out today via email confirmation that I am getting a refurb unit sent to me as replacement. Not sure I am too excited about that, but if it works I guess that is OK.

One more question - am I OK to swap out the stock HD from the refurb replacement into the HD TIVO I am sending back to them? Reason I ask is this would save me some hassle, as I have re-used the original 160 gig drive from my HD TIVO that is getting sent back and I would rather not have to re-format it and install a new hard drive in it's place (it is in my Son's PC). Any way I can just swap the hard drives? I *think* that as long as they are the same HD TIVO model number then I should be OK because the serial number and ID information is on the motherboard, not the hard drive. Of course, I will have to let the TIVO OS to update on the one I am sending back so they don't realize I have swapped it out, but I think that should be all I need to do. Can anyone confirm this for me?

Thanks


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## nigebj

I believe you are correct as applying other people's images does not give a problem. I doubt they even worry on return, they simply put it in the refurb pile and make sure it's working.

All replacements from Tivo are refurb (just as many mobile phone companies do now) - I've not had an issue with their refurbs though. I work on the principle that production units are sample tested, whereas refurbs are guaranteed tested - it's worked well for me over the years from Sony, Dell, HP and many other suppliers.


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## nigebj

richsadams said:


> Let us know how your WD10EVCS works out and if you are still seeing any issues (and if so, what they are). The drive is fairly new and so far others are reporting great success with it. All of the data points we can get are helpful to those that follow. TIA! :up:


Well finally got the WD10EVCS installed. Using WinMFS I copied the 2/3 full Samsung "1TB" contents to the WD 1TB (quoted as the WD is 890Mb larger than the Samsung currently awaiting a full backup and restore as MFSAdd does not work twice on TivoHD internals) ... no problems as usual - thanks Spike. Installed, no gray screen - as expected.

And when tested - with both tuners recording HD, and me playing HD too - no issues whatsoever. I've also had no 'reports' from other users - so I think the Samsung was the culprit for paly back pixelation when system under load. So the only question is whether this drive is 'in spec' or defective - will investigate further now I have a working Tivo again.


----------



## richsadams

nigebj said:


> Well finally got the WD10EVCS installed. Using WinMFS I copied the 2/3 full Samsung "1TB" contents to the WD 1TB (quoted as the WD is 890Mb larger than the Samsung currently awaiting a full backup and restore as MFSAdd does not work twice on TivoHD internals) ... no problems as usual - thanks Spike. Installed, no gray screen - as expected.
> 
> And when tested - with both tuners recording HD, and me playing HD too - no issues whatsoever. I've also had no 'reports' from other users - so I think the Samsung was the culprit for paly back pixelation when system under load. So the only question is whether this drive is 'in spec' or defective - will investigate further now I have a working Tivo again.


Thanks very much for the follow up. Looks like the Samsung's might need to be avoided (although IIRC there are others here using them successfully. Perhaps they've changed something?)


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## nigebj

richsadams said:


> Thanks very much for the follow up. Looks like the Samsung's might need to be avoided (although IIRC there are others here using them successfully. Perhaps they've changed something?)


Life is soooo funny. Tonight - first time ever - I have audio stutter and minor freezes, but they are in the recordings ... Now it's about -4 on my deck, and I used to get issues with the digital before I got HD when the temp. really dipped (has to be moisture in the wire somewhere) but haven't seen them for a while. Anyway, at least it'll save me getting the the case resonance for a while 

For Samsung diagnosis - 'cos I think we all want to know why they are working out fine some places, and not others.

Mine has HDD P/N: HD103UI/Y REV.A (below Model #)

Interesting also is that in the information list bottom right, 
item 2 says SEC-HD103UI(B). And item 4 2008.05, presumably manu. date.

So - for those with perfectly working Spinpoints, are any of these datapoints different (and yes I know you have to open the case to see - but you want to help, right).


----------



## ehagberg

nigebj said:


> For Samsung diagnosis - 'cos I think we all want to know why they are working out fine some places, and not others.
> 
> Mine has HDD P/N: HD103UI/Y REV.A (below Model #)
> 
> Interesting also is that in the information list bottom right,
> item 2 says SEC-HD103UI(B). And item 4 2008.05, presumably manu. date.
> 
> So - for those with perfectly working Spinpoints, are any of these datapoints different (and yes I know you have to open the case to see - but you want to help, right).


I was getting the same odd capacity numbers that someone else mentioned with their spinpoint upgrade, so I decided I'd open the case and re-supersize it again... and I'd also had occasional audio dropouts that weren't there if replayed again (so not in the data stream), though I think I never saw/heard the audio dropouts when watching a previously-recorded show (and yes I know that even live tv is really recorded and played back).

So I've disabled the AAM in hopes that'll speed up drive responsiveness, since the TivoHD is inside a cabinet and the noise isn't noticeable anyway.

My drive (which never had a hard boot or reboot issue) has the same item 2 as above, but the P/N is HD103UI/JP1 and the manufacture date says 2008.10.


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## HomieG

nigebj said:


> So - for those with perfectly working Spinpoints, are any of these datapoints different (and yes I know you have to open the case to see - but you want to help, right).


Yes, the UI is different than the UJ drive. the Samsung "UJ" Spinpoint runs flawlessley here. The "UI" is a 5400RPM drive, while the "UJ" is a 7200RPM drive. There are other posts around the forums that the UI didn't always spin-up with a reboot. But the UJ seems to be fine, at least it is here.

I don't think the UI is a Spinpoint, at least according to Samsung's website. There's about a $10 difference in price (the UI being the lower cost one).


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## nigebj

HomieG said:


> Yes, the UI is different than the UJ drive.


Interesting - the 5400 is the "Green" drive of course, and when I mistakenly jumped on the Samsung band wagon for my TivoHD - the thread I was following implied the 5400 would be the better choice (indeed I avoided the UJ from my favorite etailer). So, can those with working Spinpoints confirm that they are using the 7200rpm UJ ? Is that the common thread with working Spinpoints ?


----------



## Cainebj

Apologies in advance if someone already mentioned this - 
too many pages to read through...

I started having pixelation issues about 2 months ago after almost 2 years of everything being just fine.

I thought it was a signal issue from my cable (TWCNYC).

After having the cable company come out to check the signal and then troubleshooting with a TiVo tech on the phone - the TiVo tech suggested that my cable cards were goin bad and were no longer holding their pairing and activation...

Bottom line - swapped the 2 cable cards on Thursday for 2 new ones and BAM... NO MORE PIXELATION.


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## richsadams

Cainebj said:


> After having the cable company come out to check the signal and then troubleshooting with a TiVo tech on the phone - the TiVo tech suggested that my cable cards were goin bad and were no longer holding their pairing and activation...
> 
> Bottom line - swapped the 2 cable cards on Thursday for 2 new ones and BAM... NO MORE PIXELATION.


Very good to know...and info that might help others. Thanks! :up:


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## misstricky

Hey there,

I have been a long time TiVo user now and I currently have a TiVo HD that I love.

I just switched to FIOS last week. I've experienced picture skipping and freezing since my first day. I started at around a 37 SNR. I have a small batch of attenuators, and I've tried all different combinations of them and I have gotten it down to around 31 SNR with two 8db attenuators.

However, I'm still getting skipping. Its not all of the time, and I think its less than it was, and its only on HD channels, especially USAHD, but its still there... Should I try to go lower? When do I know if I have gone too low?

I'm really starting to go crazy. Obviously just about everyone at FIOS is clueless about what is going wrong... is it possible that its the cable card? I have one M cable card, and overall, my TiVo works, its just periodically (especially at night), I get skipping and freezing on HD channels...

Thank you for any help!


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## richsadams

misstricky said:


> Hey there,
> 
> I have been a long time TiVo user now and I currently have a TiVo HD that I love.
> 
> I just switched to FIOS last week. I've experienced picture skipping and freezing since my first day.


Are you talking about the fast-forward/back to normal "picture skip"? If so we see that periodically on both our Series3 and TiVo HD...and we're still on Comcast. I think the "feature" was added around v8.1 to compensate for signal and/or data I/O interuptions. It's annoying, but we don't see it too often so tolerable. If that's it I'm not so sure attenuation will cure it completely.

With respect to when you know you've gone too far attenuation-wise, you'll lose your picture completely. No harm done of course.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


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## igrok

With the problem affecting so many users, I'm astounded that the problem has not been authoritatively identified and solved. I see pixelation on some of my fios channels, and I believe I've narrowed it down to only channels in the higher frequency ranges, nearing the high end. That is, from about 550,000-690,000. Most of the pixelating channels are in that 690,000 frequency batch.

Signal levels are generally in the 85 range, with snr of 34-37, with most channels, including pixelating channels. However, sometimes I see that the signal level drops to 68, and bounces between 68 and 85. I don't know why I'm not getting nearer 100, but I don't think that's the problem.

That said, I'd think a diplexer blocking all frequencies over 860 would work, IF the problem is in fact bleed over from the moca set up used in the fios system.

On the other hand, if the problem is in cablecards, the diplexer will obviously have little or no effect. I've only just received the cablecards, and the installer tech mentioned that he had to search long and hard to find them (2 s-cards for each of 3 tivos). Apparently they're in short supply in my area (Philly suburbs)? I'm actually hoping the problem is with the cards, and that simply swapping them out will work. Even better, if I could get m-cards instead, that would be best, just for cutting costs.

I never saw the problem with my motorola 6416s. So what's the deal? Bottom line is, is there a definitive statement of the problem?


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## misstricky

richsadams said:


> Are you talking about the fast-forward/back to normal "picture skip"? If so we see that periodically on both our Series3 and TiVo HD...and we're still on Comcast. I think the "feature" was added around v8.1 to compensate for signal and/or data I/O interuptions. It's annoying, but we don't see it too often so tolerable. If that's it I'm not so sure attenuation will cure it completely.
> 
> With respect to when you know you've gone too far attenuation-wise, you'll lose your picture completely. No harm done of course.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


Actually I just mean that while watching tv, certain HD channels constantly skip to the point of freezing at times. Last night a couple channels, after skipping, just plain went out. Its really really frustrating, and has been occurring consistently since we got FIOS installed last week.

Verizon is overnighting me a new cable card. If that doesn't work, I'm probably am going to ask TiVo for a new box. I have lifetime service, so something better work!


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## ciucca

igrok said:


> With the problem affecting so many users, I'm astounded that the problem has not been authoritatively identified and solved. I see pixelation on some of my fios channels, and I believe I've narrowed it down to only channels in the higher frequency ranges, nearing the high end. That is, from about 550,000-690,000. Most of the pixelating channels are in that 690,000 frequency batch.
> 
> Signal levels are generally in the 85 range, with snr of 34-37, with most channels, including pixelating channels. However, sometimes I see that the signal level drops to 68, and bounces between 68 and 85. I don't know why I'm not getting nearer 100, but I don't think that's the problem.
> 
> That said, I'd think a diplexer blocking all frequencies over 860 would work, IF the problem is in fact bleed over from the moca set up used in the fios system.
> 
> On the other hand, if the problem is in cablecards, the diplexer will obviously have little or no effect. I've only just received the cablecards, and the installer tech mentioned that he had to search long and hard to find them (2 s-cards for each of 3 tivos). Apparently they're in short supply in my area (Philly suburbs)? I'm actually hoping the problem is with the cards, and that simply swapping them out will work. Even better, if I could get m-cards instead, that would be best, just for cutting costs.
> 
> I never saw the problem with my motorola 6416s. So what's the deal? Bottom line is, is there a definitive statement of the problem?


Check a few posts back. Webin and RickWagner50 hit the nail on the head. What I tried to say some months back. Your not going to get a lot of help from the FIOS techs since they all know it is a third party vendor issue.


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## richsadams

misstricky said:


> Actually I just mean that while watching tv, certain HD channels constantly skip to the point of freezing at times. Last night a couple channels, after skipping, just plain went out. Its really really frustrating, and has been occurring consistently since we got FIOS installed last week.
> 
> Verizon is overnighting me a new cable card. If that doesn't work, I'm probably am going to ask TiVo for a new box. I have lifetime service, so something better work!


Ah, got it. It does sound like a signal issue if the picture is going away completely. Does that still happen without any attenuation? If not, you might be on the verge of too much attenuation.

Anyway, best of luck and let us know what happens. :up:


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## igrok

I put on a diplexer, and the results: no change. Still running up the both the corrected and uncorrected, still seeing pixelation. I have to think the fault lies elsewhere, and my first guess is the cablecards, though who knows?


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## rickwagner50

Well I got the replacement HD Tivo and right away I got MORE PIXELATION. After getting over the initial frustration I did some more digging. I am such an idiot. Turns out that ONE of my cablecards was causing the pixelation. I must have missed it because when the good one in the 'bad' HD TIVO was used it seemed fine. I did not even think to try both tuners to see if the issue was on both. That would explain why some channels would be ok on the 'bad' HD TIVO. It was using the cablecard that was fine at those times. So when I would switch between tuners by pressing "Live TV" button it would always pixelate on the one tuner but not the other.

So, bottom line is the problem for me was the cablecard. FIOS just replaced it today and I am now pixelation free. YAHOOOO!

Sorry for the mistake on my part. I should have been more methodical in my testing when moving TIVO box 1 and box 2 around for testing. So, I spent $50 for a refurb TIVO box for nothing. I guess I deserved it. 

Hope this helps all.


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## gtcar

rickwagner50 said:


> So, bottom line is the problem for me was the cablecard. FIOS just replaced it today and I am now pixelation free. YAHOOOO!


I'm glad for you! But sad for me...

I've been watching this thread for a couple of weeks now in hopes I wouldn't run into the pixelization issue, but I wasn't so lucky. Now it's time to chime in. My recently purchased refurb TiVo HD has pixelation on a handful of channels all within the freq range of 351000khz - 369000khz.

I tried the Diplexer and attenuation on my own with no improvement, then called TiVo. They said call FiOS. I had the FiOS Tech here today and got him on the phone with TiVo. FiOS Tech did the LPF and his own attenuation, still no help. I, fortunately, did check both CCs and the problem existed on both tuners. TiVo asked to switch the CCs (Motorola BTW), so FiOS tech did that. Had the same problem on the same channels  even put the CCs in a CC ready TV and everything looked good there, ruling out the CCs. TiVo issued an Exchange RMA.

So Tivo isn't off the hook on a tuner issue AFAIC. Sending unit to Tivo tomorrow.

Silver lining... I'm still in my 30-day warranty and shipping both ways is on TiVo, so this one is costing me zero. I still have the Verizon DVR to hold me over.

It'll be a couple of weeks before I see the new TiVo HD. I'll check in when I get it.

What is puzzling me is that the Tivo Rep claimed this is a hard drive problem. Since I'm in warranty, I didn't want to try swapping the HD. So I can 't prove anything, but how can a bad HD only affect a handfull of channels. Wouldn't it cause problems with all channels or at least all High-Def channels?

I still think there's a tuner issue that TiVo isn't fessing up to.


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## ciucca

rickwagner50 said:


> Well I got the replacement HD Tivo and right away I got MORE PIXELATION. After getting over the initial frustration I did some more digging. I am such an idiot. Turns out that ONE of my cablecards was causing the pixelation. I must have missed it because when the good one in the 'bad' HD TIVO was used it seemed fine. I did not even think to try both tuners to see if the issue was on both. That would explain why some channels would be ok on the 'bad' HD TIVO. It was using the cablecard that was fine at those times. So when I would switch between tuners by pressing "Live TV" button it would always pixelate on the one tuner but not the other.
> 
> So, bottom line is the problem for me was the cablecard. FIOS just replaced it today and I am now pixelation free. YAHOOOO!
> 
> Sorry for the mistake on my part. I should have been more methodical in my testing when moving TIVO box 1 and box 2 around for testing. So, I spent $50 for a refurb TIVO box for nothing. I guess I deserved it.
> 
> Hope this helps all.


Really?!

I doubt the cable cards are your problem. Post back when it starts pixelating again.


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## ciucca

gtcar said:


> I'm glad for you! But sad for me...
> 
> I've been watching this thread for a couple of weeks now in hopes I wouldn't run into the pixelization issue, but I wasn't so lucky. Now it's time to chime in. My recently purchased refurb TiVo HD has pixelation on a handful of channels all within the freq range of 351000khz - 369000khz.
> 
> I tried the Diplexer and attenuation on my own with no improvement, then called TiVo. They said call FiOS. I had the FiOS Tech here today and got him on the phone with TiVo. FiOS Tech did the LPF and his own attenuation, still no help. I, fortunately, did check both CCs and the problem existed on both tuners. TiVo asked to switch the CCs (Motorola BTW), so FiOS tech did that. Had the same problem on the same channels  even put the CCs in a CC ready TV and everything looked good there, ruling out the CCs. TiVo issued an Exchange RMA.
> 
> So Tivo isn't off the hook on a tuner issue AFAIC. Sending unit to Tivo tomorrow.
> 
> Silver lining... I'm still in my 30-day warranty and shipping both ways is on TiVo, so this one is costing me zero. I still have the Verizon DVR to hold me over.
> 
> It'll be a couple of weeks before I see the new TiVo HD. I'll check in when I get it.
> 
> What is puzzling me is that the Tivo Rep claimed this is a hard drive problem. Since I'm in warranty, I didn't want to try swapping the HD. So I can 't prove anything, but how can a bad HD only affect a handfull of channels. Wouldn't it cause problems with all channels or at least all High-Def channels?
> 
> I still think there's a tuner issue that TiVo isn't fessing up to.


It is without a doubt a Tivo Tuner issue. Sift throught the BS posts about it being a FIOS signal problem, cable card problem, etc. I'll admit that maybe 1% is due to these, but I am skeptical of the people who continually post that it is a FIOS signal issue.

Do yourself a favor and get a refund and go with the Motorola DVR. It does not pixelate, because it has magic software. It is decoding the same ONT signal which must be bad, so that is the only explanation you can come too. 

If it walks like a duck its a duck!


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## rickwagner50

ciucca said:


> Really?!
> 
> I doubt the cable cards are your problem. Post back when it starts pixelating again.


I will certainly keep everyone posted on this. So far, it sure looks like a cablecard issue for me. Prior to the FIOS replacement card, one tuner was fine and the other tuner was pixelating. The moment the new cablecard was in it went away on both tuners.


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## webin

ciucca said:


> Do yourself a favor and get a refund and go with the Motorola DVR. It does not pixelate, because it has magic software. It is decoding the same ONT signal which must be bad, so that is the only explanation you can come too.


Don't get too cocky, especially when you're wrong. V7Goose's proof the moto boxes can pixellate too.

I was gonna scrape the dslreports forums for reported pixellation there, but decided to spend my day on pursuits more enjoyable than cringing at your posts. It's a shame really, because I mostly agree with you. As I stated recently, I think the primary issue is with tivo tuners, but there ARE other issues in play. Stop punching people in the face for trying to work out the problems.


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## richsadams

ciucca said:


> Do yourself a favor and get a refund and go with the Motorola DVR.


Seriously? You _are_ kidding right?


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## richsadams

rickwagner50 said:


> I will certainly keep everyone posted on this. So far, it sure looks like a cablecard issue for me. Prior to the FIOS replacement card, one tuner was fine and the other tuner was pixelating. The moment the new cablecard was in it went away on both tuners.


Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the data points. :up:


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## esb1981

Well, it's been awhile, but I'm back. I mean, my pixelation is back. To recap, I've been through 2 different boxes, probably half a dozen cable cards, had multiple tech visits from Cox (they swear the signal is fine), upgraded the hard-drive, attenuated, added tilt compensator, etc. What finally solved my problem of pixelation on a few channels at specific frequencies between 681-689 MHz (signal strength starts strong, then fluctuates wildly) was that I moved to a new town, though Cox is still my provider.

The pixelation was gone and uncorrected errors 0. Then, we added a TV in a new room so Cox had to install an amplifier at the entrance point. This boosted the signal bigtime, and the Tivo had pixelation on the same channels and frequencies as I had before (687 MHz), in the different town! So I attenuated and put the tilt compensator on, and that seemed to take care of it.

Yesterday, the pixelation returned after being gone for 2-3 months - on the same frequency, of 687 MHz. Doh! The one thing I've noticed now is that it really seems to be an issue on Tuner 1 (not sure why I never noticed that before - maybe this is new).

So here are my thoughts. I'm still under warranty - I know it's *partly* a tuner issue since my Moto box is fine, so do I dare try to get a new box from Tivo? Have they improved construction of their tuners, or are they still weak? I tried swapping boxes once, 10 months ago, and that changed nothing. But the idea that it's worse on one tuner tells me there may be a tuner defect.

My second thought is... since my symptoms are similar to what Fios people have, even though I'm with Cox, could a Diplexer/low-pass filter solve my problem too? Could the internet signal be bleeding over and bothering that one frequency?

Or do I just hope this goes away?

Thanks for listening, and sorry for the length.


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## igrok

Just wondering, has anyone tried a motorola NIM-100 in line just before a tivo HD? It occurred to me that since the coax to the tivo is suspected of having bleed through of ethernet (thus Verizon's suggestion for a diplexer or low pass filter), that a NIM-100 might just do the trick nicely. It might also account for the observation that the motorola DVRs are not having the pixelation problem, since the motorola DVRs may well have the guts of the NIM100, or their equivalent, inside them. That is, since the motorola units have a single coax input that carries both tv and ether, they're getting separated inside the DVR, while the tivo units are taking separate tv and ether inputs. Yet the tv input on the tivo units is taking the coax cable that still has ether riding on it, since the coax comes from the ONT before it gets to the actiontec router; at least, in my setup, the coax from the ONT splits, with one feed to the actiontec, and one feed to a splitter feeding all the TVs. The actiontec then has ether running to my bridged router which feeds a switch feeding all my computers as well as my tivo units.

Seems to me that I can pull the ether running to the tivos, and use a NIM-100 to feed separate coax and ether to the tivos (assuming that it works and the actiontec will still feed DHCP this way even with the tivos getting ether pre-actiontec, or does this not work?). Just curious, since you can pick up a NIM-100 for about $30 on ebay.


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## esb1981

My pixelation continues to be wretched. Anyone have any thoughts? I am so utterly frustrated because I thought this was DONE with. It used to happen on both tuners, but now it's only happening on one. I thought tuners couldn't "go bad." But it's happening at the same exact frequencies as it used to. Why?? Why did Tivo build tuners that do not get the job done??


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## NatasNJ

I get pixelation on a few channels with Tivo HD box & CC FIOS Verizon service. Mainly HGTV and FOOD Network and a hand full of Premium channels. All HD. Without having to READ this whole thread can anyone direct me to 

1.) Which menu I should look at to determine my problem (error codes, signal strengths, etc..)
2.) Based on that info what is BEST option to try and solve it? 

I also notice my pixelation tends to be time of day specific. Like it is in the evening but usually not during the days.


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## rickwagner50

My issue seemed to be non-recurring across all channels like yours. It turned out that one of the cablecards was bad and the other was fine. It just depended on which cablecard was being used as to when I would see pixelation. 

To see if it is unique to one of the tuners/cablecards in your HD TIVO just swap between the 2 cablecards by pressing the "Live TV" button a few times. This toggles between the 2 tuners/cablecards. Try a few different channels on each tuner. If one tuner has pixelation issues for a given channel and the other does not then you likely have an issue with one of your cablecards and should get a replacement from FIOS. That did the trick for me.


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## esb1981

NatasNJ -- go to Messages & Settings and then DVR Diagnostics. This will show you diagnostic information for both of the tuners. I would recommend tuning each tuner to a problematic channel and then going to the diagnostic screen after a few minutes.

You want to look at the Signal Strength (scale of 0-100), the SNR (signal to noise ratio) and the RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected erros. RS Uncorrected errors means the tuner was not able to reconcile a bit error in the data stream, and pixelation likely occured.

On good channels, for me, the uncorrected errors will be 0, there might just be a handful of corrected errors, and the SNR for a strong signal will be around 35 db. Signal strength might be 88-100, depending on the channel.

Problematic channels will show the signal strength high and then suddenly fluctating wildly. The corrected and uncorrected errors will spike.


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## exegesis48

Just got back from a six month deployment. Was hoping to come home and find that Tivo had fixed the pixelation issues while I was gone. Strangely my wife claimed that they had gone away or that she didn't notice them. I turned to the problematic channels though, and sure enough, there was the pixelation as strong as ever. This problem has been occurring ever since i got my Tivo HD over a year ago and I went through all the headaches of calling Tivo and having them deny any and all knowledge of the problem and then having Comcast come out and spend several tech call outs telling me that the signal is perfectly fine.

Is there ANYTHING that can be done? Is Tivo even aware of the problem? I'm so disappointed as it's one of my favorite channels (TBS HD) that has the pixelation issues.

Thanks for being such a great community.


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## snash22

The only time I experience very bad pixelization is when there are fast moving scenes. 

Therefore, is it safe to say that it is caused by compression from from cable company, and it is not a problem with my signal, Tivo, or cablecard?


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## gresc134

Just installed an HD Tivo and it worked fine with FIOS. The software version I was on was 8. xx ? I tried to get You Tube and realized it needed an upgrade. So, I rebooted the Tivo and it went out an upgraded to 11.0-01-2-652 and now I've got Pixelation on every channel. Signal Strength = 100, SNR between 37 and 38. RS U/C 0 and 2.
So, I really don't see this as a FIOS issue. I have fios STB on my other TV and it's fine, and they'll play that card... Has there been talk of a Tivo software upgrade ?


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## esb1981

Exegesis, I really feel for you with the frustration. Things that have helped me moderately at times were: putting attenuators on the line to spring the signal down a bit; and maybe adding a tilt compensator (a.k.a. signal equalizer) to attenuate just the analog channels at low frequencies (high signal tilt could overload the tuners and cause problems at higher frequencies).

A theory I have had that I haven't tested is removing an amplifier. If you have an amplifier at the house, you could try taking that out of the picture and removing some splitters to make sure you have a strong/clean signal, and then test the channels.

Good luck.


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## gresc134

Thanks esb1981 ; fios is all digital. So really no options for playing w/analog. I also gave the STB back to Verizon. No amp on the line. Maybe I'll try adding an attenuator. Still, feel that this is a Tivo issue.


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## esb1981

greg, since you're Fios, there are some specific Fios fixes people have. Some recommend attenuating your signal until the SNR is 31 (I think there's another thread on this forum titled "Fios - attenuate to snr 31." Other's have had success adding a low-pass filter or satelite diplexer to remove high-frequency signals from the line since sometimes the internet signal seems to disrupt the TV signal. You can pick up a diplexer from Lowe's for about $11. You can get a pack of attenuators from smarthome.com for $10-$20, I think.


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## richsadams

FIOS Pixellation Fix Thread


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## gresc134

ok thanks everyone ; I'll give both a try.


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## gresc134

ok picked up a diplexer (Tivo suggested I do this) and that didn't work, spent $27 on a 75ohm terminator and diplexer; now going to drop $23 on attenuators and shipping. Anyway, signal Strength is still 100 but fluctuates a bit now. SNR still between 37 and 38 but was as low as 34.

One thing I noticed was that if I record another channel and watch another (now on the second tuner) the pixelation stops. I guess I'll get an antenuator but the Tivo guy didn't seem to think that would work. 
This is really annoying and now my wife is like "let's just use the old tivo" (series 2) - great !


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## rickwagner50

gresc134 said:


> One thing I noticed was that if I record another channel and watch another (now on the second tuner) the pixelation stops.


I had the same issue. It turned out I had one bad cablecard. Something to think about. Verizon replaced mine free of charge.


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## gresc134

Thanks rickwagner50 ; I'm going to try that next...


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## wm2008

Hi, I'm having this issue with two Tivo HDs also. Lots of pixelation especially on channels like Speed and HD Theater. My Verizon DVR doesn't have any problems. Tivo support has not been too helpful and neither has Verizon. Tivo told me tonight to put some splitters in to reduce the signal, but some of the channels already have low signal strength. 

Is there any real clear path forward? I'd be willing to spend something to get a solution that works, but it's really getting bad and unless I can get a fix I need to abandon the Tivos. This is on Fios. I'm not sure how much longer I can take the pixelation and family complaining. Tivo keeps blaming Verizon and Verizon keeps blaming Tivo. But the Verizon DVR has never had a problem. I just don't really like it, but it works very reliably.


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## Flyinace2000

The information in this thread is good but hard to get to. Does this forum support wikiposts? If not a wiki should be set up somewhere to better disseminate this information.


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## bkdtv

wm2008,

Grab yourself a -10dB attenuator and screw it onto the end of your coax. That should eliminate the problem for most newer FiOS installs using the latest ONTs.

Verizon installers have these attenuators (free) and they can also be ordered from smarthome.com. If you are going to order them yourself and pay the shipping, I would probably get at least a 3, 6, and a 10. You can't be certain exactly how much you'll need. If you have more than one TivoHD, order the variety pack.


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## aaronwt

You can also get a variable attenuator from Rat Shack.


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## 21364guy

gresc134 said:


> ok picked up a diplexer (Tivo suggested I do this) and that didn't work, spent $27 on a 75ohm terminator and diplexer; now going to drop $23 on attenuators and shipping. Anyway, signal Strength is still 100 but fluctuates a bit now. SNR still between 37 and 38 but was as low as 34.


If you knock the SNR down to 31 or 32 you should be good. In my case, with the diplexer and attenuators I rarely if ever see pixelation any more.


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## richsadams

bkdtv said:


> wm2008,
> 
> Grab yourself a -10dB attenuator and screw it onto the end of your coax. That should eliminate the problem for most newer VZ FiOS installs using the latest ONTs.


That's almost exactly the advice a FIOS installer gave me when he was doing an install in a nearby house about a month ago.


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## proudx

ota signal strength 92 to 100 pixelation on bottom half of screen from time to time. ideas?


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## esb1981

proudx said:


> ota signal strength 92 to 100 pixelation on bottom half of screen from time to time. ideas?


Are you getting RS Uncorrected errors?


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## wm2008

bkdtv said:


> wm2008,
> 
> Grab yourself a -10dB attenuator and screw it onto the end of your coax. That should eliminate the problem for most newer FiOS installs using the latest ONTs.
> 
> Verizon installers have these attenuators (free) and they can also be ordered from smarthome.com. If you are going to order them yourself and pay the shipping, I would probably get at least a 3, 6, and a 10. You can't be certain exactly how much you'll need. If you have more than one TivoHD, order the variety pack.


Thanks, but a question. Even going to the smarthome site it says that it doesn't always solve the problem. Plus, it leads me to believe that a "hot" signal causes the issue.

In my case (with both THDs) I can have the signal strength meter up showing 60-80 and pixelation still happens. For example, HDT was on last week. Peak signal was 94. But, signal strength mainly stayed between 65-80. Even when it was not high, pixelation happened. It doesn't seem to correspond to what the low pass filters or attenuators would fix, does it?


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## bkdtv

wm2008 said:


> In my case (with both THDs) I can have the signal strength meter up showing 60-80 and pixelation still happens. For example, HDT was on last week. Peak signal was 94. But, signal strength mainly stayed between 65-80. Even when it was not high, pixelation happened. It doesn't seem to correspond to what the low pass filters or attenuators would fix, does it?


That's exactly the behavior -- a non-stable signal that alternates across a wide range -- you see when the TiVo is overpowered by a "hot" (too strong) signal.

On the channels that exhibited pixelization for me before the attenuator, my signal would constantly alternate between 30-50 and 80-95. Once the -10dB attenuator was added to the cable, I got a constant 99-100 on those channels, and 92-95 on most of the others. Since adding the attenuator, there little to no variation in reported signal levels.


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## wm2008

bkdtv said:


> That's exactly the behavior -- a non-stable signal that alternates across a wide range -- you see when the TiVo is overpowered by a "hot" (too strong) signal.
> 
> On the channels that exhibited pixelization for me before the attenuator, my signal would constantly alternate between 30-50 and 80-95. Once the -10dB attenuator was added to the cable, I got a constant 99-100 on those channels, and 92-95 on most of the others. Since adding the attenuator, there little to no variation in reported signal levels.


But again, seems different than my situation doesn't it? I've never had 30-50.


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## gresc134

wm2008, I'm equally frustrated but I'm going to try the attenuators and let you know what happens. If that doesn't work then it's back to Tivo. It's really hard trying to convince the fios folks that the issue is on their end. However, you may want to pursue fios first, my signal is always between 95 and 100. You're sounds a tad on the low end.


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## bkdtv

wm2008 said:


> But again, seems different than my situation doesn't it? I've never had 30-50.


That was just one example. The hotter the signal to the TiVo, the greater the range in variability you will see.


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## wm2008

gresc134 said:


> wm2008, I'm equally frustrated but I'm going to try the attenuators and let you know what happens. If that doesn't work then it's back to Tivo. It's really hard trying to convince the fios folks that the issue is on their end. However, you may want to pursue fios first, my signal is always between 95 and 100. You're sounds a tad on the low end.


I'm going to try the attenuators also, but let's be clear. This is NOT a problem on the FIOS end. This IS a problem with substandard tuners which are excessively sensitive from Tivo. This problem is not restricted to only Fios, though it is more common with Fios. Other devices do not exhibit this issue. ONLY Tivo.


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## richsadams

wm2008 said:


> Other devices do not exhibit this issue. ONLY Tivo.


Well, that's simply not the case. A search of the AVS Forum will turn up all sorts of complaints about FIOS signals being problematic for folks that have never used TiVo. There are litterally dozens of threads, but this one is a good example. Other DVR/PVR A/V forums (including VZ's own forums) are littered with similar complaints.

We all want improvments from VZ, TiVo, etc., but blanket statements like that are not helpful.


----------



## wm2008

richsadams said:


> Well, that's simply not the case. A search of the AVS Forum will turn up all sorts of complaints about FIOS signals being problematic for folks that have never used TiVo. There are litterally dozens of threads, but this one is a good example. Other DVR/PVR A/V forums (including VZ's own forums) are littered with similar complaints.
> 
> We all want improvments from VZ, TiVo, etc., but blanket statements like that are not helpful.


I hate to disagree, but I have had multiple devices on Fios. They include: 2 ea TivoHDs, 2 ea VZ Moto 6416-2 HD DVRs (now only have one), 1 ea Tosh DLP cablecard equipped TV, 1 ea MS MediaCenter/ATI cablecard equipped PC.

At this time I only have the TivoHDs and the one Moto live. I discontinued using the Tosh DLP and the MS Mediacenter PC (I ran a 5 month test of it). The ONLY devices to EVER have the pixelation issues on those channels were the Tivo HDs. No other device at any time exhibited these issues. At the time that the Tivo HDs were already experiencing the issue, the other devices were live and tested on the exact same cable segments, in the same room, etc. It is a very clear comparison.

Also please note that my position is that it is obviously possible to design around the variation in signal strength. Obviously some devices have been very successful in doing so. Tivo has not.


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## richsadams

wm2008 said:


> I hate to disagree, but I have had multiple devices on Fios. They include: 2 ea TivoHDs, 2 ea VZ Moto 6416-2 HD DVRs (now only have one), 1 ea Tosh DLP cablecard equipped TV, 1 ea MS MediaCenter/ATI cablecard equipped PC.
> 
> At this time I only have the TivoHDs and the one Moto live. I discontinued using the Tosh DLP and the MS Mediacenter PC (I ran a 5 month test of it). The ONLY devices to EVER have the pixelation issues on those channels were the Tivo HDs. No other device at any time exhibited these issues. At the time that the Tivo HDs were already experiencing the issue, the other devices were live and tested on the exact same cable segments, in the same room, etc. It is a very clear comparison.
> 
> Also please note that my position is that it is obviously possible to design around the variation in signal strength. Obviously some devices have been very successful in doing so. Tivo has not.


I understand that you have two TiVo HD's that aren't working properly with FIOS...you obviously have company here. (It's also true that many others have TiVo HD's that are doing fine w/FIOS.) You also have other equipment that is working fine with FIOS...some are apples/oranges comparisons but understood.

I was pointing out that your blanket statement "_Other devices do not exhibit this issue. ONLY Tivo._" is not valid. It may be true in your singular case. However the fact is that there are numerous posts on various forums by people having problems using FIOS with a multitude of non-Tivo A/V and DVR equipment. TiVo just happens to be the focus of this forum.

Hope that helps clarify things and I also sincerely hope that your issues get resolved. I can imagine how frustrating it must be.


----------



## wm2008

richsadams said:


> I understand that you have two TiVo HD's that aren't working properly with FIOS...you obviously have company here. (It's also true that many others have TiVo HD's that are doing fine w/FIOS.) You also have other equipment that is working fine with FIOS...some are apples/oranges comparisons but understood.


I appreciate your clarification - no insult taken here. Just my 2 cents are this...

My comparisons are in fact apples to apples. We're talking about tuner sensitivity issues on the exact same cable segment of the exact same provider on the exact same channels using the exact same cablecard technology. The only variable here is the tuners, and in my situation at least, the only failures are the Tivo units, and the failures are both long term and consistent. My experience is that Tivo has provided zero support for this, and continues to try and defer issues to Verizon rather than taking care of paying customers. Furthermore, I am seeing nowhere near the frequency of claimed similar issues on other devices being reported elsewhere.

I would be far less unhappy with Tivo if they were even making the slightest effort to resolve this. However, they have to my knowledge and certainly in my situation made no effort whatsoever.

Let's be honest. The VZ Moto units are not exhibiting this problem - in particular if they are connected to a 611 or newer ONT. So, the problem is capable of being solved. Perhaps the problem here is that resolving it requires replacement of the physical tuners, which is obviously out of the question for those of us having already purchased units, and Tivo just doesn't want to fess up because of the cost to remediate a defective design.


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## Joe Q

bkdtv said:


> That was just one example. The hotter the signal to the TiVo, the greater the range in variability you will see.


You helped me last month getting my TIVO HD XL to stop pixelating by telling me about this thread as well as using an attenuator.

I did not have any on hand so I added a splitter in the line and this particluar splitter has 2 - 3.5 DB ports and 1 - 7.5 DB port.

When I hooked my TIVO to the 7.5DB port, it cleaned everything up.

That was early December.

Now,I can not get a decent picture on ANY of my non local HD channels. They are breaking up so bad that (pixelating) that the recordings are unwatchable.

Last night was a big night for end of season shows on SCIFI HD but I had to record all the programs on the Standard Defintion SCI FI channel for the above reason.

I have tried about 15 HD channels and they all break up. I see the classic SNR/Uncorrected error in the signal strength display.

The ONLY High Def ones that work are the Locals.

Any Ideas?

I just spent the past hour playing around with ganging splitters to add attenuation but all I succeeded in doing is ultimately losing the signal.


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## substance12

@joe q

I don't have any advice but are you by any chance on FIOS and did this coincide with the channel realignment that occurred?


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## bkdtv

Joe Q said:


> You helped me last month getting my TIVO HD XL to stop pixelating by telling me about this thread as well as using an attenuator.
> 
> I did not have any on hand so I added a splitter in the line and this particluar splitter has 2 - 3.5 DB ports and 1 - 7.5 DB port.
> 
> When I hooked my TIVO to the 7.5DB port, it cleaned everything up.
> 
> That was early December.
> 
> Now,I can not get a decent picture on ANY of my non local HD channels. They are breaking up so bad that (pixelating) that the recordings are unwatchable.


I think you may need a little more attenuation.

I've found that Verizon signal levels seem to vary during different parts of the year. I don't know if that has to do with falling temperatures, or simply the result of some configuration changes on Verizon's end.

I now have ~18dB combined attenuation when you account for my attenuator + splitters. I have one of the original Motorola 610 ONTs, which output ridiculously high signal levels, so you probably won't need that much, but it definitely sounds like you need more than you have now.


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## sandun

Hi,

Basically, one of my Tivo HD units shows symptons of pixelation. Lately, I have been having issues with audio as well (becomes garbled/distorted/codec issue after few seconds of play). This specific unit was a refurb from Tivo.com. The other one was brand new (2007) and works fine.

I tried to capture a couple of minutes of playback and put it on YouTube. Since I have fewer than 5 posts, I am not able to post links - so, I had to put the link content in a code block.

CNN Clip - minor case of pixelation:


Code:


 www youtube com/watch?v=u2iL0_Ed__s

Notice the pixelations (macro blocks?) - this is actually a minor case. I have seen it worse on some occasions. Is this what you all see as well?

Revision 3 VBlog Clip - pixelation and audio issues


Code:


www youtube com/watch?v=iQGEHnE3LnE

Notices the pixelation (blocks) and audio issues. The audio gets "garbled/distorted" after a few seconds of play. I can go back to the menu and then press play, the audio plays OK again for a few secs before it becomes a issue.

I noticed the audio issue only in the last 2 weeks. Pixelation has been an issue for a few months.

I am still not sure if my case is related to cable signal/tuner.

1) I have tried 2 different drives - same symptons.

2) Pixelation occurs on cable tv, downloaded content (VOD, RSS VBlogs) and sometimes on Netflix Watch now (see it only once though).

3) Same symptons with or without cable card (M-stream, on Comcast).

4) *Never* happens when watching clips that were transfered from another TivoHD (which does not have any issues). These transferred video plays without a single hiccup of pixelation.

Anyone else notice pixelation on downloaded content?

- sandun


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## Ladd Morse

To add another data point to the discussion:

I purchased a TiVo HD about three months ago and have had pixelation problems when recording shows OTA, but hardly any when recording via Comcast digital cable.

Reading that has been some speculation that the TiVo HD tuner doesn't handle high signal strengths well, I checked the signal strength going into the OTA tuners (by viewing the appropriate page in the TiVo's settings) and found that both channels were showing 100% signal strength.

I put two-way splitter on the line, with the unused split capped, and the signal strength still showed 100%. Same with swapping the two-way splitter for a three-way splitter.

A four-way splitter finally made a difference -- signal strength dropped down to 95%.

This has completely eliminated the pixellation problems, with no re-occurrence in the two weeks since making the change.

Could be fact, could be coincidence. Either way, it's been a significant improvement in viewing pleasure.


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## sirbob

I thought I would provide another point of reference for the pixelated Tivo HD users out there and maybe get some advice.

Recently my cable provider RCN, switched over to all digital, and although this forced me to get cablecards, it did provide the benefit of all sorts of new HD channels. I have always taken my local HD channels via a small antenna that occasionally had some pixelation, but never so much that it bothered me. However, on a couple of the new HD channels (the travel channel most notably) the pixelation/audio drop out is extreme, often occurring every few seconds. 

Since it seemed to be just one or two channels that I noticed it on, I assumed it wasn't the Tivo or the connection, but something on RCN's line. I however checked this forum and it seems like the likely culprits for pixelation are generally cheap coax or two high of a signal strength. 

Signal strength on most channels seems to be 100, travel would drop down to 60 and have lots of uncorrected and corrected errors. I'm using a Philips power sentry as both a backup UPS and as a surge protector for the electric/ethernet/coax. After plugging the Tivo directly into the feed from the cable line, signal strength jumped up to 100 for the travel channel and the errors dropped to 0. I was excited that this seemed to be the answer to the problem but a bit dismayed that my very expensive piece of tech would have its tuner exposed to the harsh wilds of the world where surges run free. I tried a separate coax surge protector on the power sentry (it has 3 sets) and this time the signal strength for the travel channel went to around 90 and the uncorrected errors remained at 0, while the corrected errors jumped up by about 1000 every 10 seconds or so and pixelation seems to be nonexistent.

My question to you out there who are more experienced in this matter, why in the world does this power sentry surge protection only seem to interfere with one or two channels out of hundreds? I must say it makes me rather curious. At this point, even though I can see from the data that the direct feed of the cable line provides a 'better' signal, my nonpixelated surge protected set up seems like it will be good enough, unless there is some reason to have the corrected errors low or something else that I may be missing. Anyway, I also wanted to provide another example of 'always check the cabling and set up' along with the signal strength/attenuation advice as a likely cause of pixelation.

Ryan


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## richsadams

sirbob said:


> My question to you out there who are more experienced in this matter, why in the world does this power sentry surge protection only seem to interfere with one or two channels out of hundreds?


Thanks for the additional and educational data points Ryan. :up:

With regard to your question, not being an electrical engineer, I could only guess why your particular UPS is causing problems for only certain frequencies. More specialized folks can speculate or explain.

However I do know that since the days of my Series1's it's long been an axiom here to always run coax directly to Tivo (or as directly as possible taking splitters into account, etc.) and to never run coax through a surge protector or UPS.

That's not to say that some folks may be doing just fine with that setup, but the resulting signal corruption has been well-documented for years. AFAIK, no one has incurred damage to their TiVo from electrical spikes via coax.

A UPS/surge protector or power conditioner is a very good investment to prevent hardware and data corruption due to power failures, spikes, surges and even brown-outs. Each of our TiVo's have always had their very own APC UPS and to date, no problems at all with the unit or signal (0 RS corrected and uncorrected errors).


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## jeffw_00

Hi - I'm close to buying an HD-Tivo - to run on digital (COMCAST) cable, (no OTA), primarily for HD. I know my signal strength is in spec - is this thread likely something I'm going to need to worry about (hard to read through 35 pages)
Thanks!
/j


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## sirbob

richsadams said:


> With regard to your question, not being an electrical engineer, I could only guess why your particular UPS is causing problems for only certain frequencies. More specialized folks can speculate or explain.


Thanks for the response. I can say from a physics point of few I certainly understand that all of these signals are capable of being sent simultaneously through the wiring since they each have their own frequency range and that there must be something in the UPS that is interacting at a certain frequency. Either a material that is harder for a select frequency to pass through, or the device itself emits interference at that frequency. However, the practical knowledge of the matter, why it's just this one or two channels, such a small range of frequencies, and the implications of that allude me. Perhaps there is an electrical engineer in the audience who can shed some more light on the matter.


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## sirbob

jeffw_00 said:


> Hi - I'm close to buying an HD-Tivo - to run on digital (COMCAST) cable, (no OTA), primarily for HD. I know my signal strength is in spec - is this thread likely something I'm going to need to worry about (hard to read through 35 pages)
> Thanks!
> /j


Probably not. You've just come across a thread in a forum of particularly vocal and interested Tivo users and even in our group I would wager it is only a small subset that actually have much in the way of pixelation problems. I'm confident you'll be fine, and if you do run into an issue, you already know where to look,

Ryan


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## richsadams

jeffw_00 said:


> Hi - I'm close to buying an HD-Tivo - to run on digital (COMCAST) cable, (no OTA), primarily for HD. I know my signal strength is in spec - is this thread likely something I'm going to need to worry about (hard to read through 35 pages)
> Thanks!
> /j


We've had Comcast feeding our TiVo's for a couple of years now. We see sporadic macroblocking/pixeization, but it's such a small amount and nothing that interferes with our viewing pleasure...certainly no more than seen using OTA or satellite (in fact far less than we saw using satellite).

It's impractical to think that a digital signal will not be corrupted by any number of factors now and again IMHO.


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## NatasNJ

I am still getting major pixel issues on certain channels. I see my error number climb as a I watch. Happening on both cablecards. I ordered the attenuation pack and if that doesn't work i am bailing from Tivo. This is bad business practice for Tivo.


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## Joe Q

I have been having REALLY bad pixelation on JUST the High Def Channels ever since I installed the Tivo HD XL which I bought in December of 2008.

Thanks to this thread and a particular poster, I have it licked (almost)

I got that atennuator pack today and just finished with them.

I ended up with a total of 16 DB attenuation. 13 with a 10DB and a 3DB attenuator connected to a 3.5 DB splitter.

I have not checked all of the HD channels but the ones that I had found and marked on my program guide printout are working perfectly now.

The one exception is 583 (Speedhd). It had the worst pixelation and still pixelates albeit not as badly.

I also found that the pixelation problem IS tuner dependent. Ie. SpeedHD is MUCH worse on Tuner 0 than on Tuner 1.


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## richsadams

Joe Q said:


> I also found that the pixelation problem IS tuner dependent. Ie. SpeedHD is MUCH worse on Tuner 0 than on Tuner 1.


Thanks for the info. :up:

The tuner difference is an interesting datapoint. Historically if there was a cable card problem with the original TiVo HD (particularly when first introduced and more so with SA cable cards), it was almost always with tuner 0. Curious.


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## NatasNJ

Can someone explain this to me. I have 2 cablecards in my TivoHD. When I go into CableCard menu I see the two cable cards (though one is called SCard and the other is CableCard or something) I clearly have 2 working tuners since i can buffer two shows or record two shows. But when I go into DVR Diag screen I can ONLY see CableCard 1 information. If I select Cablecard 2, then go into DVR Diag it still shows me Cablecard 1 diag information. WTF?


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## esb1981

NatasNJ said:


> Can someone explain this to me. I have 2 cablecards in my TivoHD. When I go into CableCard menu I see the two cable cards (though one is called SCard and the other is CableCard or something) I clearly have 2 working tuners since i can buffer two shows or record two shows. But when I go into DVR Diag screen I can ONLY see CableCard 1 information. If I select Cablecard 2, then go into DVR Diag it still shows me Cablecard 1 diag information. WTF?


You need to scroll down on the screen - either push the down arrow key or channel down button.


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## NatasNJ

esb1981 said:


> You need to scroll down on the screen - either push the down arrow key or channel down button.


huh? I know how to scroll. Are you saying the Error and signal rates are shown on the same diag screen just further down? Cause I don't believe that is true.


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## richsadams

NatasNJ said:


> huh? I know how to scroll. Are you saying the Error and signal rates are shown on the same diag screen just further down? Cause I don't believe that is true.


Yes, only some of the info is shown on the first screen you come to. You need to continue to page down (scroll) to see the rest of the info for the first tuner and then further for the second tuner. DVR Diagnostics on my TiVo's are listed on eight total screens. You need to access this info directly: Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > DVR Diagnostics.


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## wm2008

An update after about a week of attenuator attempts.

Pixelation is far less bad than it was before, but I can't get rid of it. I've tried multiple combinations of attenuators on both TivoHDs to get the SNR to just below, right at, and just above 31. I'd classify the pixelation as bad enough when it happens to really tick me off, but not so bad that the entire content is worthless and unviewable. It's still not acceptable. Don't know what the next steps will be. Moto unit has still never exhibited pixelation through all of this. I've got the moto unit still temporarily moved so it's sitting next to one of the TivoHDs and it's recording in parallel. When we play back a show on the TivoHD that shows pixelation we then switch to the Moto box to see if it shows the same problem. It never does.


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## hmm52

I've been off this thread for some time - busy, and no tiling/pixelation issues of any real bother. This has been the second longest clear stretch with Fios after the initial run following contract with VZ in 11/06; 7/08-1/09 versus 11/06-7/07. A few anecdotes that may be useful to new HD TiVo owners as my equipment and provider have remained unchanged, except for software updates to the S3 and occasional cablecard replacements:

I had severe pixelation problems on a Toshiba cc Tv and the S3 periodically between 7/07 and 6/08, the most horrific being July '07 on the Toshiba (before purchase of S3); 3 cc Sonys have been almost completely fine throughout. The Toshiba and S3 always tiled in tandem though the S3 has usually had more difficulty dealing with line errors than the Toshiba - worse pixelation, greater number of channels aflicted. I'm convinced that the issues were always caused by the signals sent out by my central office and tuners unable to manage them. This was confirmed several times by top VZ techs. The best check on feed quality is ahead of the ONT but in my experience only the "Big Boss" carries the equipment necessary for this. When such a check was done and report made to central office 7/07, pixelation totally vanished within 36 hours. (for four months).

I've had a few Motorola cablecard failures but I've never seen them cause pixelation - through 5 different devices using them. Swapping cards during rough stretches made no difference whatsoever; makes sense as tuning appears to be taking place ahead of decryption; rate of uncorrected errors is the same whether or not card is in place. Perhaps it's possible but I've been using a minimum of 3 cards since 10/05 and I haven't seen it yet.

The expanded number of tiling channels I had on tuner 0 last year was my fault. The gain on a distribution amp in the antenna feed was too high for the S3. It caused pixelation on 0 but not on tuner 1; certain _cable_ channels clustered on several frequencies. - no explanation why only 0. Though UPS/line conditioners are great, I wouldn't run the coax through any surge suppressor to a TiVo without suspicion. The only thing disturbed by the dist. amp gain was the S3, tuner 0.

I'm glad that the Fios signal remained good through channel realignment. I expected the worst. With any luck my CO has finally gotten its act together. I can live with the S3 rebooting itself every two weeks or so. The last time was strange. During Eagles-Giants game, the picture occasionally tiled, froze, then released. Diagnostics showed no uncorrected errors however. One such freeze ended in a reboot. Recording of game on Sony DVR made as backup displayed exactly the same problems, except for reboot. (The Sonys are all but immune to tiling.)

9db of attenuation has been clipped into Fios feed just ahead of S3 since June; something less for the Toshiba; nothing for the 3 Sonys. Not sure what's really needed now but tiling is rare and minimal.

Bottom line: Based on my observations, both tuners and signals are at fault with pixelation. For whatever it's worth, it's possible to have extended periods without any macroblocks on the same vulnerable device which had truly hellacious tiling previously; all dependent on the provider's feed as delivered to your home of course.


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## JoeTaxpayer

I have a Series 3 (with the 2 M cards from Motorola) and watching a FX recorded show (Damages) from a few night ago, the pixelization was horrible, yet other shows, HD, recorded before and since have been just fine, as was the prior Damages. I'd take it this was a bad cable day, and had nothing to do with my TiVo, correct?


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## richsadams

JoeTaxpayer said:


> I have a Series 3 (with the 2 M cards from Motorola) and watching a FX recorded show (Damages) from a few night ago, the pixelization was horrible, yet other shows, HD, recorded before and since have been just fine, as was the prior Damages. I'd take it this was a bad cable day, and had nothing to do with my TiVo, correct?


That's a valid assumption IMO. I've seen the same thing happen with ours, also with OTA, cableco DVR's, etc., etc. Digital signals are subject to problems now and then for a myriad of reasons. If it were happening on a regular basis to multiple recordings, then I'd be more concerned about a "localized" issue...but even then it might still be a cableco problem. That's not to say that TiVo's can't go south, but there can also be a number of other factors to look at if problems arise.


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## ciucca

webin said:


> Don't get too cocky, especially when you're wrong. V7Goose's proof the moto boxes can pixellate too.
> 
> I was gonna scrape the dslreports forums for reported pixellation there, but decided to spend my day on pursuits more enjoyable than cringing at your posts. It's a shame really, because I mostly agree with you. As I stated recently, I think the primary issue is with tivo tuners, but there ARE other issues in play. Stop punching people in the face for trying to work out the problems.


I've been away sorry for the late reply: 

I will agree that some Motorola boxes may pixelate or have other issues, but all you need to do is call Verizon, or visit one of their stores and get a replacement. I'll let you in on a secret, there are about 5% failures with Moto DVRs that will cause a customer to call in and get a replacement. After they receive it the problem disappears 100%.

I will assume since I do not have numbers that people who have a moto DVR and a TivoHD in their house will experience pixelation and need attenuators on the Tivo, but NOT the Moto, at a rate of about 99%.

The problem with some people on this board is that they refuse to admit to evidence that is staring them in the face. It makes me think that they are technically inept, or covering something up. Probably either possibility is equally likely but since the most vocal ones are on this board so much, it makes me wonder what their motivation is.


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## ciucca

richsadams said:


> Seriously? You _are_ kidding right?


No I'm not! Are You?


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## richsadams

ciucca said:


> No I'm not! Are You?


I made an attempt at using a Motorola DVR as a "backup" once upon a time. After having and returning three bricked boxes in as many months, (not to mention the pathetic GUI and concerns that they were going to burst into flames at any moment) I'm startled and amazed when someone actually (seriously) recommends them to TCF members as being superior to TiVo...that's all.


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## rickwagner50

ciucca said:


> Really?!
> 
> I doubt the cable cards are your problem. Post back when it starts pixelating again.


Still running strong without pixelation after a couple of months. The replacement cablecard definitely did the trick *for me*.


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## NatasNJ

Well I put a 20db attenuator on my TivoHD and that seemed to HELP the problem but I still get frequent breakup from time to time on the same channels. But it went from unwatchable to a very annoying on occasion. Thinking of tweaking mine a tad more but I am lazy.


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## substance12

I use a 3db & 8 db attenuator, a splitter ( can't remember the attenuation on it), and a diplexer. It's improved my pixelation on Nat Geo and DiscHD... and just about eliminated all on FLN. Natgeo (NGC?) is still the worst. On some days NGC is great and on others it's bad as ever. All 3 of these channels are near the same frequency. If there were a way to add attenuation to a specific frequency I think that might actually solve my problem. this all happened to me after the channel realignment.


----------



## oregonman

bkdtv said:


> I think you may need a little more attenuation.
> 
> I've found that Verizon signal levels seem to vary during different parts of the year. I don't know if that has to do with falling temperatures, or simply the result of some configuration changes on Verizon's end.


This raises a question that I have not seen addressed here. (I have tried to read the bulk of this thread, but it is so large, I may have missed some stuff.)

Why does the behavior change over time? The above explanation does not make sense to me because the electrical signal that the Tivo is getting is only traveling from the ONT to the Tivo. Why would the signal change when the network that the signal is traveling over does not change? The above explanation would make sense in a classic cable TV model where the signal is coming all the way from the cable head end through distribution system that is changing constantly.

So have any other theories been proposed as to why a configuration that works fine for a while, suddenly starts to pixilate?


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## hmm52

oregonman said:


> ...Why does the behavior change over time? The above explanation does not make sense to me because the electrical signal that the Tivo is getting is only traveling from the ONT to the Tivo. Why would the signal change when the network that the signal is traveling over does not change? The above explanation would make sense in a classic cable TV model where the signal is coming all the way from the cable head end through distribution system that is changing constantly.
> 
> So have any other theories been proposed as to why a configuration that works fine for a while, suddenly starts to pixilate?


The full FiOS network is [VHO]_________(a)________[CO]_____(b)_____[ONT]___(c)___[tuner].

The pixelation I've encountered has never come from (c), nor to the best of my knowledge (a). Line errors out of the central office specifically have been the problem. Adjusting signal level in house was the main remedy last year - to help weaker tuners cope better with the errors - *not* 100% effective. Service calls to have CO get on the stick were the remedy in 2007 - 100% effective.

5 cablecard devices for 2+ years with FiOS: *Never* a correlation seen between cablecard and pixelation. A *very* high correlation seen between pixelation and signal from street, and with brand of tuner. Within the bad periods, which lasted a week or more, tiling varied much hour to hour. No correlation with lunar or any other cycle either.

----my experience with FiOS. YMMV.


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## webin

oregonman said:


> Why does the behavior change over time?


Verizon FiOS uses fiber optic cables and lasers to send photons to your house. As we all know, photons are people, too, and as such can experience a wide range of emotions. For instance, in the winter, when the daylight is shorter and temperatures lower, many photons experience Seasonal Affective Disorder, or SAD. When a photon is experiencing SAD, they may sleep too much, have little energy, and crave sweets and starchy foods. They certainly have no inclination to work efficiently, which causes pixellation issues when they reach your television.

The best treatment for seasonal affective disorder is light therapy. Send your photons to a psychologist, and hopefully they can use cognitive behavior therapy, or as a last resort, medications, to get your photons feeling better about themselves and their path through life (and fiber optic cables). Rest assured that come Spring, the photons should start feeling better, and you can expect less pixellation issues with your television signal.


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## hmm52

webin said:


> Verizon FiOS uses fiber optic cables and lasers to send photons to your house. As we all know, photons are people, too, and as such can experience a wide range of emotions. For instance, in the winter, when the daylight is shorter and temperatures lower, many photons experience Seasonal Affective Disorder, or SAD. When a photon is experiencing SAD, they may sleep too much, have little energy, and crave sweets and starchy foods. They certainly have no inclination to work efficiently, which causes pixellation issues when they reach your television.
> 
> The best treatment for seasonal affective disorder is light therapy. Send your photons to a psychologist, and hopefully they can use cognitive behavior therapy, or as a last resort, medications, to get your photons feeling better about themselves and their path through life (and fiber optic cables). Rest assured that come Spring, the photons should start feeling better, and you can expect less pixellation issues with your television signal.


Until last Spring I would have bought into your explanation; it had been the other three seasons which had bothered the photons serving me - SAD, Philadelphia humidity, back to school time, whatever. Perhaps 9 months ago they were just cranky over the approaching demise of the analogs. We'll see how they behave in a few months...


----------



## oregonman

hmm52 said:


> The full FiOS network is [VHO]_________(a)________[CO]_____(b)_____[ONT]___(c)___[tuner].
> 
> The pixelation I've encountered has never come from (c), nor to the best of my knowledge (a). Line errors out of the central office specifically have been the problem. Adjusting signal level in house was the main remedy last year - to help weaker tuners cope better with the errors - *not* 100% effective. Service calls to have CO get on the stick were the remedy in 2007 - 100% effective.
> 
> 5 cablecard devices for 2+ years with FiOS: *Never* a correlation seen between cablecard and pixelation. A *very* high correlation seen between pixelation and signal from street, and with brand of tuner. Within the bad periods, which lasted a week or more, tiling varied much hour to hour. No correlation with lunar or any other cycle either.
> 
> ----my experience with FiOS. YMMV.


A few questions:

1) How do you know what the signal from the street looks like? Is there anything that I can tell Verizon to look at?

2) What do you mean when you say "adjusting the signal levels in the house"? Are you talking about the attenuation that has been discussed in this thread?

3) If the errors originate at the CO, why don't I ever see it on my Motorola DVR? Why would attenuation affect it at all on the Tivo? It seems to me that even if the Tivo did not handle errors as well as the Motorola, then it wouldn't change depending upon the attenuation.


----------



## hmm52

I've posted a number of tmes on this and the other pixelation thread - attenuate to 31db. Briefly:

1) A local "Big Boss", and a top VZ tech soon to become that, have clipped meters directly to the fiber optic cable from street at the ONT. This was done during the most horrific periods of pixelation I've ever seen, July and November '07. Each time they saw an enormous level of errors on the various frequencies which had severe tiling/pixelation in house. Each time they passed the information to the CO; weeks of tilng then abruptly stopped witiin 36 hours; they called to inform me that the root of the issue had been at the CO, not in the street cabling. 

2) Yes, I'm referring to attenuation primarily, for cable feeds. I've seen channels pixelate and lose signal lock occasionally OTA during high winds or just with weak station signals. I think it's rare that a cable signal is weak though; if actually so it's the provider's responsibility to fix it. 

3) From what I've seen directly, and read, different brands of tuners deal with signals loaded wiith errors very differently - some very well, some not so. The three oldest cc QAM tuning devices I have are all Sonys. During the very worst signal times, when some frequencies' channels were a mosaic fiasco on other tuners, the Sonys just had a macroblock or tile here or there once a minute or so. From what I read on DSL Reports when the problems were scattered across the VHO region, the Motorola STBs tuned similarly to the Sonys - pretty robust compared to the S3 and Toshiba TV I have.

I'm not an electrical engineer so somebody else could better answer your question. Irhorer? I believe that tuners can better manage signals with errors, and deliver a clean picture, when the signal level is in a certain range - thus attenuation often helps; and that what you see on the diagnostics screen reflects more how the signal is being tuned, not the raw errors that the techs read before the ONT. 

If my speculation is wide of the mark. I'd be glad to hear of it.


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## richsadams

webin said:


> Verizon FiOS uses fiber optic cables and lasers to send photons to your house. As we all know, photons are people, too, and as such can experience a wide range of emotions. <snip>


OMG! OMG! That explains why I'm suffering from pixilization at work (my TiVo's fine BTW). Now I have to seek professional help. Aurgh! At least I have an explanation for the boss (and the wife).


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## hmm52

oregonman said:


> ....Is there anything that I can tell Verizon to look at?


This is your most difficult question. The initial "Big Boss" in my area was responsive by cell phone and had an interest in the case generally. His replacement was also pretty good for awhile. When I had off and on issues last Winter and Spring, my calls weren't returned, and I never saw dramatic endings of tiling as I had before. The only path is to open a case with Verizon, be persistent, and hope for the best. Ask that the lead in cable be checked for errors, though most techs don't have the meter to do this (in my experience). Inform them of the pixelating frequencies. It's a laborious PITA compared to putting attenuators in your coaxial feed. Fortunately I haven't had any significant pixelation since June.

Nothing wrong with home remedies but somebody should be making the calls when things are off. The line errors are real and worth reporting in my view if you can make the time.


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## V7Goose

hmm52 said:


> The full FiOS network is [VHO]_________(a)________[CO]_____(b)_____[ONT]___(c)___[tuner].
> 
> The pixelation I've encountered has never come from (c), nor to the best of my knowledge (a). Line errors out of the central office specifically have been the problem. Adjusting signal level in house was the main remedy last year - to help weaker tuners cope better with the errors - *not* 100% effective. *Service calls to have CO get on the stick were the remedy in 2007 - 100% effective.*
> 
> 5 cablecard devices for 2+ years with FiOS: *Never* a correlation seen between cablecard and pixelation. A *very* high correlation seen between pixelation and signal from street, and with brand of tuner. Within the bad periods, which lasted a week or more, tiling varied much hour to hour. No correlation with lunar or any other cycle either.
> 
> ----my experience with FiOS. YMMV.


I don't post much on this subject 'cause I am clearly in the minority, but I figure my last comments are buried deep enough in this and other threads that maybe it is time to add one more.

IMHO, wasting time trying to fix this problem by attenuating the signal is a complete joke. But everyone seems to focus on that simply because it is easier for them than to attempt to make Verizon send a clean signal to their ONT. I realize that my CO and my specific situation may not be representative of everyone, but I've seen the signal problems crop up 3 or 4 times over the past three years, and every instance was only completely resolved by the CO when pushed. Verizon CAN send a clean signal that works 100% of the time without any attenuation and showing 100% signal strength.

The signal problems can be seen in the TiVo diagnostics, the Verizon STB diagnostics, and the techs out at the input to the ONT with their meter. It is true that the TiVo is more vulnerable to displaying pixelation and tileing from these errors than the STBs are, but the fault is still the bad signal from Verizon, NOT the signal strength or the TiVo hardware.

Just my opinion, of course, but I have been successful in getting my signal problems fixed from Verizon. Good luck.


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## Chris8204

I recently had FIOS installed a couple weeks ago (i'm in an apartment so the ONT is central) and I'm noticing similar issues. It was good for 3 days and it started to act up....

I have tried combination's of attenuators and a diplexer and no luck. Basically 98% of my channels seem to be just fine with any set up. No errors whatsoever. But, some in a certain frequency are causing me problems on occasion. Depending on the time of day I will have RS corrected errors, and other times I have uncorrected and lots of pixelation. My problem channels so far (the ones I can see):

ESPNHD - channel 570 - frequency 723 MHZ
ESPN2HD - channel 574 - frequency 735 MHZ
TNTHD - channel 551 - frequency 717 MHZ

However, curiously, channel 212 an MTV channel, at 699 MHZ is just fine. I have only noticed issues on HD channels so far.

So, I don't know. I have been trying for a week to fix it and no luck. Verizon of course is no help, they claim their signal is in spec but they probably haven't checked the fiber going to the ONT. I suppose I could try and get the CO to do something, but I don't know how much energy I have left to deal with this. I might be caving in soon and getting a verizon DVR. I don't want to, but I'm starting to really get fed up with having to troubleshoot this. Verizon is going to claim its Tivos fault, and TiVo will claim its Verizons fault.

While the TiVo is really nice, I am really starting to question if it is worth it. Last year when I first got it, it took comcast 4 tries to make it work, and then I had to deal with two major bugs my TiVo had. The first was the initial pixelation bug, the second was the one where the TiVo picture would freeze and the TiVo had to be rebooted every couple of days. They were fixed in software releases but it took a while. And now I am putting up with this Verizon garbage....at some point enough is going to be enough.


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## oregonman

V7Goose said:


> The signal problems can be seen in the TiVo diagnostics, the Verizon STB diagnostics,


How do I get to the diagnostics in the Verizon STB? I cannot find anything in the menus (I have the HD DVR). Thanks.


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## oregonman

Chris8204 said:


> I might be caving in soon and getting a verizon DVR. I don't want to, but I'm starting to really get fed up with having to troubleshoot this. Verizon is going to claim its Tivos fault, and TiVo will claim its Verizons fault.


I am really surprised that Tivo does not seem to take a greater interest in this. Even if the problem is with Verizon, Tivo will be losing the monthly revenue if Chris and others give up and switch to a Verizon DVR. How hard would it be for Tivo to find a few cooperative customers with this problem and send an engineer out with the proper diagnostic equipment and definitively get an answer? Then they could let us know how to diagnose the problem and give us some info for when we call Verizon.


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## Chris8204

I agree with you, you'd think they would care more about losing customers, but maybe the amount of people it effects is very small, who knows. Most people don't have FIOS, and the amount that have problems with FIOS is probably even smaller. My suspicion is that the Series 4 (whenever that comes out) will probably fix some of these issues.

The worst part is that this is supposed to be a premium box. I'm paying extra money to get the best DVR on the market and yet all I get is constant hassle and trouble it seems, whether it is new software bugs or lack of support from the service provider. It seems ridiculous that I'm paying MORE money to have MORE issues. I mean, I have had several techs from Comcast and Verizon out for various problems. NOT ONCE has the tech ever known what to do, I have always had to fix any issues or tell the tech how to set up the cable cards. It's just very frustrating to spend so much money and not get any support.


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## hmm52

oregonman said:


> How do I get to the diagnostics in the Verizon STB? I cannot find anything in the menus (I have the HD DVR). Thanks.


I haven't checked the DSL Reports FiOS threads for a long time but the info you want is over there; possibly very early in this thread as well. In the Philadelphia FiOS thread look for *geekgirl* or *thegeekgirl*. She explains the meaning of various diagnostics' values in depth. A Verizon employee monitors and responds in the thread also. I've never used an Motorola STB, Comcast or Verizon, so I can't tell you how to navigate the menus.

I doubt the knowledge will help shortcut the service process. You'll still need to have everything in your house checked thoroughly before a top tech looks at the street feed and kicks it to the CO (hopefully). I haven't yet found a shortcut though my CO is less than 2 miles away. Walk up service?


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## oregonman

hmm52 said:


> I haven't checked the DSL Reports FiOS threads for a long time but the info you want is over there; possibly very early in this thread as well. In the Philadelphia FiOS thread look for *geekgirl* or *thegeekgirl*. She explains the meaning of various diagnostics' values in depth. A Verizon employee monitors and responds in the thread also. I've never used an Motorola STB, Comcast or Verizon, so I can't tell you how to navigate the menus.
> 
> I doubt the knowledge will help shortcut the service process. You'll still need to have everything in your house checked thoroughly before a top tech looks at the street feed and kicks it to the CO (hopefully). I haven't yet found a shortcut though my CO is less than 2 miles away. Walk up service?


I found it. This is from the FAQ on dslreports: To enter the diagnostics menu: With your STB powered On, hit "Power, Select, Select" quickly in sequence from the front panel or remote. To exit the menu, hit "Power" to turn off the STB. The next power up will be back to normal.

I was hoping that if errors were showing up in the diagnostics of the Motorola STB, then that would be evidence that the problem is not restricted to Tivo. Then I could use that to counter a Verizon claim that the problem is with the Tivo.

Right now I am seeing tons of errors on the Tivo diagnostics and none on the Motorola. How would this information fit with the theory that the errors are generated at the CO?


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## hmm52

If I'm correct in my speculation that diagnostics mostly shows you how the signal is being tuned, not the raw errors themselves, then it follows that the Motorola will display much fewer or no errors. This is true for the Sonys. Diagnostics in these devices is not the same as the meter the VZ techs use. I think what you reported just tells you that the Motorola is doing a better job than the TiVo at tuning the same signals - something you already knew. When things get really out of whack, it will show on the Motorola and Sonys.----- A good time for Irhorer to weigh in on the subject if he's interested. 

A TiVo + a VZ CO that's not doing its' job well = some aggravation. You can't completely counter the claim that the fault lies with the TiVo.


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## webin

oregonman said:


> I was hoping that if errors were showing up in the diagnostics of the Motorola STB, then that would be evidence that the problem is not restricted to Tivo. Then I could use that to counter a Verizon claim that the problem is with the Tivo.


That is precisely how V7Goose convinced his local techs to complain to the CO until they "swapped out a card", fixing his problems. Give me a few minutes and I'll find that link here on the forums.

Edit: Here it is: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6580907#post6580907


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## hmm52

webin said:


> That is precisely how V7Goose convinced his local techs to complain to the CO until they "swapped out a card", fixing his problems. Give me a few minutes and I'll find that link here on the forums.
> 
> Edit: Here it is: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6580907#post6580907


We're waiting....

Do you mean swapping out a QAM at a CO?


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## webin

hmm52 said:


> We're waiting....
> 
> Do you mean swapping out a QAM at a CO?


Waiting for the link I edited into my previous post? I'm confused

I can't tell you the specifics, since I only have third-hand knowledge of what went on. What I can tell you is once V7Goose had sufficiently convinced Verizon that his signal problems originated before arriving at his house, they changed something in the Central Office overnight and his problem went away.


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## Chris8204

webin said:


> Waiting for the link I edited into my previous post? I'm confused
> 
> I can't tell you the specifics, since I only have third-hand knowledge of what went on. What I can tell you is once V7Goose had sufficiently convinced Verizon that his signal problems originated before arriving at his house, they changed something in the Central Office overnight and his problem went away.


My problem with all of that is it took him a month and a lot of hassle. I don't know if I have the patience to deal with all of that. Plus all my problems are on HD channels, so I'd have to get a motorolla HD box to try and look at the diagnostics. Maybe I will try and get a free HD DVR for 6 months (i think there is a special now) and hook it up and see what happens. Maybe it will show up the errors and that will make them fix it so I can ditch their box again.


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## V7Goose

In my case, the eventual key to forcing Verizon to accept the problem was to show the errors on ALL channels in a specific frequency (NOT a range of frequencies). Each individual frequency has something like 2 - 5 separate channels assigned, and they are not grouped together. This took some effort on my part tuning in every single channel and checking the TiVo diagnostics to write down the frequency and note if it had errors. After I found the bad channels, I then was able to go to the Verizon STB and check each of them there and see that they also showed massive numbers of errors in the diagnostics. Most of them were "corrected" errors (meaning you didn't see them in the picture), but the significant point was none of the "good" frequencies showed any errors at all. And they couldn't just brush me off because most of them were "corrected", since there were some "uncorrected" errors even on their STB that did show up in the picture, even if you had to watch it for a while to see them.

When I was done I was able to clearly show the techs on paper which frequencies had signal errors, and that ALL channels on those four frequencies had errors. Once that finally got through their skulls, they focused on those frequencies at the ONT and saw the errors there, also, using their own test equipment. That is when they finally escalated it to the CO.

After fighting this battle the first time, and having to go through several call-backs with different techs, I finally got most of it recorded properly in their trouble ticket system. After they fixed it the first time, I had problems show up twice more, most significantly after the channel realignment last fall. In each of those cases, I knew what to do right up front. I spent a couple of hours checking all channels and mapping the bad ones to frequencies, then when I called them I was able to convince them quickly what the problem was and it was fixed quickly.


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## hmm52

Very good information. Each QAM frequency with Verizon carries up to 2 HDs and 10-12 SDs. Whether the problem is in the house or before it, pixelation is clustered on a few specific frequencies (unless things are really bad) and nearby ones are unaffected.

I'm very interested. How much different was the service process after the first one?

Each time I've done it, it went something like this: Call--low tech visit--low tech visit--top tech visit--info passed to CO--fix within 36 hours; with other calls and miscellaneous work mixed in - swapping out ONT, router, LPF, etc. About 2 weeks were spanned each time. 

Ideally it would require only a call to FSC with the info you had-- FSC contacts your CO-- fix without any tech visit at all. Did the process ever become that streamlined in your case?


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## V7Goose

The specific frequencies that were bad were never related to each other at all, meaning they were not close together. Whatever the specific problem was, they were able to fix it by changing one or more "cards" at the CO (I was an electronics tech, but I know next to nothing about Verizon's system or digital TV).

My last couple of service calls on this still required them to send a tech to the house, but I did my best to encourage them to have the tech review the records of my past calls before he came. As soon as the tech arrived I would stuff my papers in his face showing the proof that only specific frequencies were experiencing problems, then I insisted he stand and listen to my description of the past troubleshooting and resolutions. Finally, I insisted that if he intended to do ANY troubleshooting on my premises, the first thing he would have to do is run a new temp cable directly from the ONT to one of my boxes, effectively removing my entire property from the equation. By the way, if you are still fighting a tech on the local troubleshooting process, having them run a new temp cable like that also allows them to bypass all the stupid questions and suggestions they get from their "level 2" support when they call to escalate the problem.

Anyway, faced with enough evidence of the likely problem, the tech goes out to the ONT and puts his meter on the street feed, sees errors on the frequencies I have identified, and calls the problem in. The problem goes away either the next night or during the next Sunday morning maintenance window.

During the extended painful time trying to get the problem fixed the FIRST time, they replaced the ONT three times and internal cables several other times. Not to mention all the trouble taking off splitters, disconnecting other boxes, etc. I have no idea why, but many of the techs seemed totally incapable of understanding how to check the incoming signal for errors! Now that I know they can do that and actually SEE the error outside my house, I can push them into doing that and bypass everything else.


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## hmm52

V7Goose said:


> Anyway, faced with enough evidence of the likely problem, the tech goes out to the ONT and puts his meter on the street feed, sees errors on the frequencies I have identified, and calls the problem in. The problem goes away either the next night or during the next Sunday morning maintenance window.
> 
> During the extended painful time trying to get the problem fixed the FIRST time, they replaced the ONT three times and internal cables several other times. Not to mention all the trouble taking off splitters, disconnecting other boxes, etc. I have no idea why, but many of the techs seemed totally incapable of understanding how to check the incoming signal for errors! Now that I know they can do that and actually SEE the error outside my house, I can push them into doing that and bypass everything else.


You did very well to reduce it to just one tech visit. In my experience the top techs also checked for errors at various points in house, replaced a few terminals that looked suspicious, but didn't go nuts swapping parts out as the low techs did, then checked the fiber optic feed and wrapped up for the day since the evidence there was obvious. The low techs I've encountered didn't have the equipment necessary to read errors, only line level - always around 0 db as it should be.

Electronics is no way my field but I've suspected faulty QAMs at my CO as being the source of errors causing pixelation, in *most* cases. Verizon committed to, then soon dropped, going IPTV to expand their channel lineup. Part of the equation must have been the cost of adding the necessary QAMs at all their COs - supposedly $10k per as of a year or so ago. I visualized QAMs as being some sort of rack mounted stainless steel modules; more likely a card or board, I guess, assuming that the "card" mentioned was a QAM. Big assumption.

There are two cases where the faulty QAM thought doesn't fit. The prevalence of pixelation on local HDs was so widepread nationwide that it would be unlikely to be any sort of fault as the cause. More likely was that it came from an intentional decision that suited VZ's installations but caused problems with TiVos as a consequence. (I don't mean that VZ intended to make things difficult for TiVo users.) I don't think it was just a matter of frequency dependent signal level as the locals were neither at the low or high end; I don't know where they are now. Fortunately they were the easiest to fix wiith attenuation (if signals on other frequencies tolerated doing so).

The second is the bizarre case of the ESPNs. Episodically I've seen very strange behaviour with them - directly only for 5-15 minutes per event. It seems to be source dependent and it has carried through channel realignment on new frequencies. It is the one time where the 3 Sony tuners have difficulty as much as the S3. Pixelation isn't the problem (not seen); it's achieving and maintaining signal lock. During these events a total of 5 cc devices take turns in locking the signal, and not. One tuner displays a clean picture while another does nothing, and so on. Very odd. Rare enough that I haven't had many opportunities to observe it. Frequent enough to think that that there are different types of signal errors that manifest differently.

I expected the worst with realignment but it didn't happen up here. Signal issues were minimal through that period and since then.

Thanks much for your advice.


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## Chris8204

Well guys....today I broke down and picked up a Verizon HD DVR. I spent an hour on the phone last night with the techs, got escalated all the way up to "tier 3" and got no where. They told me it was my problem and the tivos problem, and not theirs. They refused to send out someone to check the errors on the line because they claimed my verizon standard box was fine so there were no errors. They then proceeded to tell me they would send out a tech to check the signals again (which is worthless) and to maybe replace the cable card, but that they might charge me for the visit if it turns out it wasn't their problem and it was the TiVo (which they would have)

So, I've had enough. Normally, when a company treated me like this, I would ditch them, however the Fios TV picture is so much better than Comcast and the internet is so much faster that I'm not going to switch back. The one good thing is the Verizon HD DVR is free for 6 months, so I figure that gives me 6 months to figure something out. I now have both my Tivo and verizon dvr hooked up. The good news is the Tivo HD is still very useful because 95% of the channels are perfect, so I can still record most of my content on it.

What's interesting is that I can't do any more testing today because ironically all day today the problematic channels have been rock solid on my Tivo. No errors or anything, signal strength 93-100. But for the past 4 days they were erroring like crazy. Oh well, I won't complain I guess. I figure if it's fixed, then great, I have two DVRs and one is free, and I just get rid of it later. If the errors come back, then I have hopefully at least one working DVR for the time being on those channels. And if both DVRs are screwed up, then that gives me ammo when I call back so they will actually fix the problem if the motorola box is also showing the same issues.


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## Chris8204

Well I spoke too soon...the pixelation is back. But what do you know, the Tivo is freaking out on channels like ESPNHD and TNTHD and the motoroloa DVR is fine. I went into diagnostics and there are 0 errors in the motorola box and like 500 thousand for the Tivo.

Oh well, I was hoping verizon's dvr would show errors so I could get them to help fix my issue, but now that their box works just fine that will be even harder. Hopefully in the next 6 months while this box is free, maybe Tivo will release something about their series 4. I would imagine the next generation will have alot of these issues fixed. There has to be a hardware "problem" causing the pixelation. By problem I mean, maybe it's too sensitive or something. Whatever the problem is, the motorola boxes don't really have it so Tivo should look at that to fix it for the next boxes.


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## hmm52

Also in 6 months the signals have a good chance of improving. Waiting it out is a reasonable strategy particularly as the other DVR is free. I've held onto the 2 Sonys as backups to the S3; they have their own issues - less than completely reliable guides (Gemstar/Macrovision). In the year with the S3 I've used them almost not at all, so thinking now of pulling their plugs.

The TiVo's weakness? The tuners. Same for a Toshiba cc TV I've got.


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## Chris8204

Yeah, I don't know what's going on but I'm done troubleshooting. As you said maybe in 6 months something else will change. I just wish I could figure out what the problem was with the TiVos and FIOS. You would think that there would be a more official fix then "use attenuators" by now. My suspicion is TiVo knows why there are errors, but to fix them would require a hardware upgrade, so it isn't like they are going to come out publicly and be like "our hardware has issues with Fios" especially when not everyone has the problem.


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## ciucca

Chris8204 said:


> Well I spoke too soon...the pixelation is back. But what do you know, the Tivo is freaking out on channels like ESPNHD and TNTHD and the motoroloa DVR is fine. I went into diagnostics and there are 0 errors in the motorola box and like 500 thousand for the Tivo.
> 
> Oh well, I was hoping verizon's dvr would show errors so I could get them to help fix my issue, but now that their box works just fine that will be even harder. Hopefully in the next 6 months while this box is free, maybe Tivo will release something about their series 4. I would imagine the next generation will have alot of these issues fixed. There has to be a hardware "problem" causing the pixelation. By problem I mean, maybe it's too sensitive or something. Whatever the problem is, the motorola boxes don't really have it so Tivo should look at that to fix it for the next boxes.


Chris,

I am truly sorry to hear of your problems, but your experience confirms what I've been trying to say on this forums for months. The problem is in the TIVO. A little birdie told me that Verizon has done extensive testing on this problem, and the finding is that the TIVO is to blame. The QAM Tuner TIVO uses is a low quality cheap generic OEM part, that is low COST, and not stable. This is the kind of thing you would find on a cheap PC tuner board. This next part is speculation. I can only assume that the decision TIVO made to go this route was cost alone. They probably decided it was worth having maybe 10-20% of their customers affected, and I speculate they made a conscience decision to deny any knowledge of the issue and take their chances. I could go on, but I do not wish to start another useless argument with the TIVO supporters on this board.

The reason you do not see a problem with Motorola, is that Motorola and every cable company they deal with will not tolerate this level of failure. Motorola tested their circuitry extensively to ensure that it meets its specification at all signal levels. I have my suspicions that TIVO only selected the low cost vendor and did not put their circuitry through the rigorous testing that a supplier to cable companies (Moto) must do to keep their market share.


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## Fortynine

I&#8217;m a Cablevision of Long Island Subscriber and until this past fall have had little or no issues with pixilation, picture freezes etc. However, since then now suffer severe pixilation, picture freezes and audio drop outs on many of the HD channels. ie. 702 (CBS), 704 (NBC), 705 (Fox), 707 (ABC). They are basically unwatchable, and any attempt to record programs such as 24 or Lost, all but futile. This problem also persists on the two ESPN channels, (735, 736) and on HD other channels in the 740 and 760 ranges. 

I have used attenuators to try and resolve these problems but with limited success. For example, using 9db of attenuation may steady the problem for awhile on the low channels, (702+ &#8230 but will not work on the higher channels (736+&#8230 which may need up to 13db of attenuation. However, 13db of attenuation completely &#8220;blacks&#8221; out the lower channels. Therefore, recording (or watching one program while recording another) in different frequency blocks at the same time is all but impossible. 

I was convinced the 2 cable cards in my S3 were defective. I made a service call to Cablevision and this past Sunday a technician came over with 2 new cards. When he discovered that one of the cable cards he brought along was defective, he installed a Multi-stream card. However, the same problems persisted. He then spent a great deal of time testing the signal at various points in the house and out in the street, running a temporary wire from the street to the box etc. etc. In the end he couldn&#8217;t resolve the issue and kicked it upstairs to his supervisor to schedule another appointment. However, what the Tech did see were wide swings in the strength of the HD signal to the junction box outside my house. Some frequencies were very strong while others were rather weak. 

The kicker to all this is that while watching TV later Sunday night I got a &#8220;new cable card installed&#8221; message prompting me to run through guided setup. (FYI, for the couple of hours the Cablevision Tech was at my house the M card was installed with both streams functioning &#8230; although with pixilation issues). After completing the guided setup, however, I could only access one stream (tuner) &#8230;. BUT&#8230;all the pixilation problems etc. are now gone on all channels. So, maybe I should count my blessings and just keep the TIVO configured as is. 


Series 1 - Lifetime Sub
Series 2 - Lifetime Sub
Series 3 - 3 year plan


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## cheesehead00

i noticed some pixelation issues this past weekend while watching a recording. it seems to be pretty sporadic and have encountered pixelation on local channels like fox as well as mtv, E!, and hd channels. sometimes i get a message saying "searching for signal on cable in: see message and settings" for a couple seconds and then returns to being distorted. i have briefly looked at the signal strength and from what i understand was pretty high around 90-98.

does anyone have any insight into why this is happening and if its comcasts fault, cable card issues, or tivo problem.

I have a hd tivo series 3 that was recently swapped by tivo with a refurb.

any help is greatly appreciated thanks!


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## cheesehead00

comcast tech just came out to check on the problem. guess the issue was the signal was not strong enough and they are sending someone else out.


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## chuckbutler

I just want to say thanks to bkdtv for his helpful post here. For anyone else who may come across this thread, when I switched from Comcast to Verizon FiOS on my TiVo HD and had pixelization and blocking on some channels. TiVo's diagnostics showed exactly what has been described above. A single -10 db pad solved the problem in my case.


----------



## TeamW

I had this same problem. It was on the low, former analog channels mainly. I would get readings around 98-100 on the signal strength meter and then the signal strength meter would bounce around like crazy and the picture would pixilate horribly. 

The FiOS tech told me I was reading +4 at the wire going into the TiVo without any attenuator. He tried a -3 and even a -8 attenuator to bring the signal under control to no avail. However, out of desperation I suggested adding the -3 and -8 to give me a -11. That takes me just below the recommended minimum signal strength for Verizon, which is -6. 

In now works PERFECTLY. Signal strength on the diagnostic screen is running in the high 70's and I am getting no pixilation issues at all. It worried me that I'd be getting such a low signal that I might have some different picture problems, but that is not the case. Even the HD channels look rock solid and fine. So at -7 things are very good for me. I also tried with a 3rd attenuator on there -6 on top of the others, bringing me to -11. That gave me a signal strength in the 50's and the picture still looked fine. I took that off figuring I should cut the signal down only as much as necessary to cure the pixilation, but at least from my limited experience, it looks like what Verizon suggests and what the TiVo likes are very different. Signals far below what the Motorola boxes want seem to be well within reason for the TiVo for some reason. So if you have tried cutting the signal with a single attenuator and it didn't work, keep at it until you can drop the signal down into the 70's or lower. Hope you find this helpful - the Verizon tech was here for 3 hours trying to figure this out. He was swapping out wires, splitters everything, assuming the problem was too weak of a signal, but the opposite was the case. He kept making everything better which was, paradoxically, making everything worse. 

Also - I had a single stream card installed initially, because they brought out the wrong card. Had the same problem with the single stream card but it was fixed by just a -6 by itself (leaving me at -2). However, with the multistream card -2 was still too high, so the problem resurfaced. So it may be something about having two tuners in play that impacts this. Either that or it depends on the particular cable card somehow. 

So don't give up on this fix until you have the signal strength down in the 70s or lower.


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## richsadams

TeamW said:


> The FiOS tech told me I was reading +4 at the wire going into the TiVo without any attenuator. He tried a -3 and even a -8 attenuator to bring the signal under control to no avail. However, out of desperation I suggested adding the -3 and -8 to give me a -11. That takes me just below the recommended minimum signal strength for Verizon, which is -6.
> 
> In now works PERFECTLY. Signal strength on the diagnostic screen is running in the high 70's and I am getting no pixilation issues at all.


Welcome to the forum and thanks for the valuable feedback. Our Series3 runs near 100% all of the time (with no problems) but our TiVo HD which is located upstairs runs anywhere from 60% to 80%. It also has zero problems. (I suspect the coax up there is past due for replacing but if it ain't broke...) I experimented one time using a couple of splitters to cut the signal and it works fine clear down to about 50%.

So it would seem that TiVo is very robust in the sense that it will tolerate and deliver solid A/V performance with very weak signals, but it's obviously not so good at dealing with signal strength that is too "hot". In days gone by weak signal strength was a major cause of complaints. Now things may be going the opposite direction.

Good info. Thanks again. :up:


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## ghuido

Thanks a lot for this thread. I have a TIVO HD that was randomly freezing or crashing on me. A lot of other threads pointed to having to hot of a signal. I have Comcast.

When I ran the signal test I was seeing every channel at 100%. I went ahead and bought attenuation from Smart Home. Put in a -6db and now the signals are down to the low 90 range. Haven't seen any more freezing or random reboots since then. Keep my fingers crossed.

Does anyone have any examples of what pixelation on an HD Image looks like/ I wanted to see if i have that problem. Is it that the image is fuzzy when it should be sharp or you randomly see pixels every now and then. 

Sorry if it is confusing but thanks for all the good info.


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## richsadams

ghuido said:


> Does anyone have any examples of what pixelation on an HD Image looks like/ I wanted to see if i have that problem. Is it that the image is fuzzy when it should be sharp or you randomly see pixels every now and then.


Here is a sample of a digital picture suffering from what is known in the industry as "macroblocking" often called pixeliation (which is actually something else) or pixelization (which is also something else) around here. The sample is pretty severe (and a bit scary). Sometimes it will just be a few artifacts, other times more and often during fast-moving scenes.

Macroblocking from Wikipedia:



> This is a non-technical term used when macroblocks are either missing and show up as video errors, or when bandwidth is not enough to encode fine detail. Square areas of the picture do not show the correct portion of the image. Instead they either show a single color block, or a low-resolution block with noticeable edges. Advanced decoders hide these types of errors with a technique called error concealment. Consumer equipment often calls this technique as MPEG Noise Reduction system."


Causes of Macroblocking can be many including signal compression as noted here. I don't have confirmation but as I mentioned earlier it appears that Comcast has jacked up our signal (all channels 100% with zero fluctuation on our Series3) and we're seeing more macroblocking than ever before as well as having a couple of spontaneous reboots (which has never happened). Plus the HD quality is suffering so I'd wager they are compressing signals as they add more HD programming in a "me too" effort to keep up with Verizon FIOS. We're getting FIOS soon and I'm looking forward to decent PQ once again.


----------



## txporter

richsadams said:


> Causes of Macroblocking can be many including signal compression as noted here. I don't have confirmation but as I mentioned earlier it appears that Comcast has jacked up our signal (all channels 100% with zero fluctuation on our Series3) and we're seeing more macroblocking than ever before as well as having a couple of spontaneous reboots (which has never happened). Plus the HD quality is suffering so I'd wager they are compressing signals as they add more HD programming in a "me too" effort to keep up with Verizon FIOS. We're getting FIOS soon and I'm looking forward to decent PQ once again.


Are you saying that you are seeing more macroblocking lately? I swear that I am seeing more issues with macroblocking and interlace artifacts and general playback issues (some issues with lip sync, stuttering, etc) ever since 11b was downloaded. I use TWC, so I am wondering if maybe it isn't really the cable co that has changed, but something in the Tivo software.

Jason


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## richsadams

txporter said:


> Are you saying that you are seeing more macroblocking lately? I swear that I am seeing more issues with macroblocking and interlace artifacts and general playback issues (some issues with lip sync, stuttering, etc) ever since 11b was downloaded. I use TWC, so I am wondering if maybe it isn't really the cable co that has changed, but something in the Tivo software.
> 
> Jason


Yes, I'm seeing more issues recently including macroblocking, audio sync, etc. recently, but I'm pretty sure no more than before v11.0b was installed. The first reboot happened almost two months ago. That's when I started looking at the diagnostics and found the signal boost. It was along about the same time that Comcast started bragging about their "fiber optic delivery system" (ha!) and began adding more HD channels to be able to compare themselves to VZ. Again, I've no proof that they tweaked anything, but it seems likely. Long answer longer, I really haven't noticed any additional annoyances since the latest software update.


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## ghuido

This is the same thing that happened to me. A couple of months ago I started seeing spontanous reboots for no reason and it would freeze as well randmoly. Looking here it said signal stregth and I checked i had 100% Signal all across the spectrum. I use Comcast as well. Also I think some channel line up occured around that time as well.

I put in the signal att (-6db) and it seem to clear up the freeze up.

For the pixelazation. Thanks for the example. I see it randomly but very infreqently. i record a lot of HD (ABC,CBS,NBC,TNT,SCIFI, etc ...) with an M-Card.

I might see pixelation but only for a second very rarely. I think i was watching 5 episodes of Lost this weekend and only saw it on one episode for a couple of seconds.

I hear that on Verizon FIOS the signal strength is all over the board and you really can't use a signal att to get the signal just right. I think I read it on a post on this forum.


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## ghuido

Also like to point out that like you where saying since the latest software update ( A couple of weeks ago) haven't seen any freeze or reboots.


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## hmm52

I haven't seen any ill effects from the latest software either. The S3 has been behaving well. Freeze/reboots remain rare. Recent video/audio problems were source related, I believe, in an ESPN tennis feed from Australia in January. Incoming FiOS signals have been stable and good for many months; 4 more and it wil be a year.

Verizon's signals have varied quite a bit for too many in the past. Attenuators usually remedied most pixelation however. It seems Vz's signals have generally gotten better or there would be more current complaints on this thread. And now other providers' signal maintenance is falling apart?


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## JJA

Installed my Tivo HD last Saturday with FIOS as my provider. ESPN (ch570) has very bad pixilation at various times. Actually unwatchable when it happens. SIgnal strength jumps from 100 to 48. Can I assume a att won't help me since the signal is so variable?


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## hmm52

No. That's what the indicated signal level will do when the level's too high. Attenuation should work well. Get a small assortment of different values - 3db on up. Verizon techs have them.


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## wagswvu

I don't know if this has been covered but, I only started noticing this after 11.0b-01-2-652 update.

Here are some examples
http://files.me.com/erwags/2myp6k

http://files.me.com/erwags/t5gyqq


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## Phantom Gremlin

wagswvu said:


> I don't know if this has been covered but, I only started noticing this after 11.0b-01-2-652 update.
> 
> Here are some examples
> http://files.me.com/erwags/2myp6k
> 
> http://files.me.com/erwags/t5gyqq


I haven't seen anything like that. Do you have problems with other shows on other channels?


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## wagswvu

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I haven't seen anything like that. Do you have problems with other shows on other channels?


This seems to randomly happen on any of my HD channels and the audio also cuts out for a second. It doesn't occur often.


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## radtechy

currently I have cablevision of longisland but when move in 6 weeks I'm geting fios. I've had the pixalation audio drop outs and TiVo support is so stupid they had no idea why the TiVo to go transfers would die out in the same spot all the time no matter how many times I transferred it to my PC (mostly movies) which I was using to build my colection so I wasn't watching them to see the probably otherwise I would have caught on it myself

My question is any one here have a tivo hd with fios in the Bohemia/holbrook area near the airport? Or anywhere on long island? And do you have these problems too? I'm kinda excited that hopefully I won't have the same problems that I do with cable. Don't get me wrong my recordings are all watchable but I will get the drops which sucks if I'm into a show and I miss some important dialogue

Thanks in advance for any help/info
James


----------



## sethmeisterg

I've been playing around with attenuators here in RB and, at least for me, using a 20dB attenuator seems to have stopped the uncorrected errors. I still do get corrected errors, but don't care too much. I also just tried using a diplexer, but was not successful in having that eliminate the uncorrected errors. I also noticed that the MoCA traffic definitely does appear to have an effect on the number of errors; I launches a speed test (which will max out the 20 Mb down / 5 Mb up) and the number of errors really skyrocketed. Additionally, I had thought that the MoCA frequencies were above 850MHz, but even with the entire coax into the house plugged into the diplexer (which supposedly filtered out signals about 850MHz), the MoCA traffic was still present (the internet and coax lights on the Actiontec were green). It sure does look like, somehow there is interference there. I only wish I could temporarily disable the MoCA traffic from the ONT (I have a Model 612) to verify that . (Of course, I can't discount the possibility that the diplexer was poorly isolating the 46-860MHz / 870-2GHz signals).
I have noticed that more errors happen on channels on lower frequencies (e.g. HBOHD (channel 899) at 165MHz gets tons more errors than Travel HD (channel 670) at 387MHz. My TivoHD has an M-card, and I'm also trying to see if it matters which tuner is used -- no data yet.


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## exdishguy

Just had Time Warner installed with Tuning Adapters and guess what? Not a single corrected or uncorrected error on any of my Tivo's - perfect picture.

That said, I don't know if the Cisco TA is helping as I don't know how they are designed - but I'd assume they have a QAM tuner with AGCs even though they principally are designed to communicate upstream to facilitate SDV.

So Tivo isn't off the hook yet. But I now have a very big stick to pursue my battle with Verizon to fix this issue on Fios TV. They can no longer simply blame Tivo. So I have filed and received a letter from the FCC that the issue is being looked into with Verizon. My complaint is quite simple - Verizon is making it nearly impossible for Cablecard (Tivo) owners to use their customer-owned equipment and are violating the law in doing so. I believe they have been fined for this already but it appears they need to be slapped again if at all possible.

This is all pretty depressing as I like the price and picture of FiOS TV....when it works. And Time Warner costs nearly 2x and has vastly fewer HD channels.....but at least the service works with my Tivos. I have not disconnected Fios TV entirely yet and have escalated the issue to persistent customer problems (again) and my local tech and hope that they'll wake up - but I doubt that they will.

Meanwhile, Tivo claims they are "working on the issue" with Fios. I don't believe it though. They know that their hardware QAM tuner/AGCs are crappy and a recall would be costly. So they'll continue to drag their feet and probably never fix the issue. Why bother? Statistically, the number of Tivo customers who have Fios TV and have Tivo HD/XL boxes and noticed this issue in their particular install is probably not that big. Of course, if a customer buys several Tivos, pays their monthly fees, etc. then they should expect their boxes to work....I mean the Motorola DVR does in fact work flawlessly on Fios. Sigh....I guess we'll see what Fios (and Tivo) does in the next week or two.


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## dwgsp

wagswvu said:


> This seems to randomly happen on any of my HD channels and the audio also cuts out for a second. It doesn't occur often.


I have been having a similar problem ever since I got the 11b upgrade on my TivoHD - on some channels every few minutes I see pixelation and audio cut outs. This happens with Time Warner Cable and a Cisco TA. My wife is not happy.

With 1000+ posts in this thread, I am not sure where to start looking for solutions. Would someone care to post a summary?

Thanks!
/Don


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## ml_nelson

dwgsp said:


> I have been having a similar problem ever since I got the 11b upgrade on my TivoHD - on some channels every few minutes I see pixelation and audio cut outs. This happens with Time Warner Cable and a Cisco TA. My wife is not happy.
> 
> With 1000+ posts in this thread, I am not sure where to start looking for solutions. Would someone care to post a summary?
> 
> Thanks!
> /Don


There is a user on here (matt8268) that swore that pixelation would always be fixed by the addition of an in-line-amp. I decided to give it a try as there were some channels that I would ALWAYS get about 10 minutes of lost program due to pixelation.

Pixelation stopped the day I put it in. It's been about 1/2 year now without problems. I don't have a good explanation as to the interaction between tuner & amp, but in my case it absolutely fixed the issue.


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## Phantom Gremlin

ml_nelson said:


> Pixelation stopped the day I put it in. It's been about 1/2 year now without problems. I don't have a good explanation as to the interaction between tuner & amp, but in my case it absolutely fixed the issue.


I had a lot of pixelation problems with my TiVo HD hooked up to Comcast. A high quality distribution amplifier fixed them. But this is so contrary to the experience of so many other people who needed attenuators to fix their pixelation.


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## richsadams

ml_nelson said:


> There is a user on here (matt8268) that swore that pixelation would always be fixed by the addition of an in-line-amp.


Glad to hear things are going well. :up: I think you're referring to this post by Matt talking about this amp. (There was one on ebay as well.)


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## exdishguy

ml_nelson said:


> There is a user on here (matt8268) that swore that pixelation would always be fixed by the addition of an in-line-amp. I decided to give it a try as there were some channels that I would ALWAYS get about 10 minutes of lost program due to pixelation.
> 
> Pixelation stopped the day I put it in. It's been about 1/2 year now without problems. I don't have a good explanation as to the interaction between tuner & amp, but in my case it absolutely fixed the issue.


Do you have FiOS? Has anyone tried this with FiOS? I still haven't cancelled my FiOS yet so I'll give this a go. I ordered a Motorola in-line amp.

Right now my TWC with TA install has ZERO errors...not one single corrected or uncorrected error. However, TWC has other major limitations such as the MRV (copyright flag set) issue, limited HD channels, slightly inferior HD picture quality, and mostly the outrageously high prices. BUT...I have no errors so I'm stuck with it until Verizon and Tivo can pull their head out.


----------



## dwgsp

Hmm... so some folks say that an amplifier helps, while others say that an attenuator helps. That makes it sound like the TivoHD works best if the signal strength is in a certain range. Does anyone have any information about what the min / max signal strengths are that will make the TivoHD happy?

Thanks!
/Don


----------



## exdishguy

dwgsp said:


> Hmm... so some folks say that an amplifier helps, while others say that an attenuator helps. That makes it sound like the TivoHD works best if the signal strength is in a certain range. Does anyone have any information about what the min / max signal strengths are that will make the TivoHD happy?
> 
> Thanks!
> /Don


Well I think you've hit on something - the dynamic range of the Tivo tuners appears to be pretty narrow....or crappy, depending on your perspective. But the Fios signal is also an issue in some installs because the dynamic range of the signal varies so widely across the band. And this variation doesn't appear to be monotonic either and/or a steady slope from one end of the band to the other. The Fios signal also seems to fluctuate as well from day-to-day, week-to-week.

But I went out and picked up a Radioshack amp today anyway just to try it. Unfortunately it didn't help me at all. So I hooked up the TWC and the TAs again and guess I'll have to push on Verizon again tomorrow to get their signal sorted out.


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## kemajor

I've had my TivoHD w/M-CableCard on Cox for a little over a week. I seem to get pixelation and audio dropouts on digital *NON-HD* channels but so far never on a digital *HD* channel.

It is very frustrating. I've tried to read most of this thread. As far as I can tell other than having the incoming signal checked (done by installer - said it was excellent) there seems to be nothing to be done?

My Cox HD DVR cable box is not experiencing the same pixelation and it is fed from the same 2-way splitter as the TivoHD.

- Kelly


----------



## armstrda

bkdtv said:


> *Pixelization with Verizon FiOS: How to Fix*
> 
> Background
> 
> FiOS uses several different ONTs which provide an average signal level of +12dB to +18 dB to +24 dB. Output from the most widely used ONT (Motorola 612) is +18 dB on most channels. Output with older installations (Motorola 611) is up to +24dB.
> 
> For some reason, the output on many ONTs (or some COs?) is not linear. The output might be +14dB to +16dB on most channels, but +20 dB on others.
> 
> Verizon installers are instructed to add an attenuator to reduce the signal down to +5 dB. Some do, some don't, as the Motorola STBs and DVRs tend to work fine with mosts signals of +10 dB or less.
> 
> The Problem
> 
> Installers are taught that a signal level of +5dB is excellent. That signal is fine for the Motorola boxes, but in many cases, it is too strong for the TiVo.
> 
> With a signal level of +5dB, the majority of channels will be fine on the Tivo, but many may exhibit intermittent pixelization. On these channels, RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors increment rapidly, SNR fluctuates, and signal strength fluctuates between 100 and a lower number (such as 50).
> 
> Even with a signal level of +0dB, some channels may exhibit intermittent pixelization. In my experience, 90-95% of FiOS channels are fine with a signal level of +0 dB, but that signal level is still too strong on perhaps 5-10% of channels.
> 
> I attribute this to non-linear output from the ONT -- most channels may be +0dB but others in different frequency ranges may be +5dB higher (or more). It is these channels with higher signal levels that exhibit pixelization. FiOS uses the same frequency ranges for locals, RSNs, and other cable channels on every system across the country. It is common for the local HD channels to be in the frequencies with a higher signal level.
> 
> More often than not, calling Verizon FiOS support is not a solution, because installers take one look at the +5dB signal level and conclude that the signal is fine -- just as they are trained to do. Verizon installers do have attenuators, but they don't attenuate the signal further because they are trained on the requirements of the Motorola boxes, not the TiVos.
> 
> The Solution
> 
> The solution is to further reduce signal strength to -6dB or lower by adding an attenuator to the end of the coax cable. This does not affect the FiOS channels with lower signals levels, but it eliminates the pixelization on FiOS channels with higher signal levels. It takes about 60 seconds to install an attenuator.
> 
> Steps to Fix
> 
> 
> Order a pack of attenuators. These screw on to the end of the coax.
> 
> smarthome
> 
> Find a channel with pixelization.
> 
> Once you've found a channel with pixelization, open Settings -> System Information -> Diagnostics. With this screen, you can monitor your SNR and number of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors.
> 
> Your goal is to completely eliminate the RS Uncorrected errors and the fluctuation in the SNR. A few occasional RS Corrected errors are fine; it is the RS Uncorrected Errors that indicate pixelization.
> 
> Disconnect the coax cable from the TiVo.
> 
> Note the process of disconnecting and reconnecting the coax will result in a lot of RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected errors, but don't worry about that. Only worry about errors that increment after the cable is firmly connected.
> 
> Most seem to require -10dB to -16dB of new attenuation. I would start with -16dB. Screw one -10dB attenuator and one -6dB attenuator onto the end of the coax cable. Then reconnect the coax back to the TiVo.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step five using one -10dB attenuator and one -2dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step five using a single -10dB attenuator.
> 
> Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?
> 
> If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat step five using a single -6dB attenuator.
> 
> By now, the problem will be fixed.


Looks like these attenuators are also available here for a little less (and shipping seems to be less).
mcmelectronics and search for Attenuator Pad


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## DrData101

Thanks for sharing this. Will it help if using Comcast cable?


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## exdishguy

ciucca said:


> The problem with some people on this board is that they refuse to admit to evidence that is staring them in the face. It makes me think that they are technically inept, or covering something up. Probably either possibility is equally likely but since the most vocal ones are on this board so much, it makes me wonder what their motivation is.


Just rereading this thread and a few others and couldn't help but noticed that you posted for quite a while under the guise of being a regular "Tivo" user who suspected Tivo was to blame for the Fios problems. Then you finally admitted that you work for Verizon http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6099646#post6099646 in one post that seems to have gone unnoticed and now your blaming the "inept" users on this board. You've got some nerve - pages and pages of posts before this admission were made by you under false pretenses.

Now instead of trolling and continuing to deflect and blame Tivo perhaps I can suggest a more constructive way of helping with this situation?

1. Put a disclaimer in your signature that you are in fact a Verizon employee. Your obvious bias and attempts to deflect blame away from Verizon would be less offensive if your not-so-hidden agenda was more obvious each and every post that you make.

2. Tell your FSC video gurus that it turns out....they are not. It is scary beyond all reason to me that a supposed Fios video guru would communicate to a customer that Fios does not "compress" their video signal. Really? I hadn't realized that the Tivo HD suddenly could take uncompressed HD and compress it in real-time to write it to the hard drive. Interesting. 

3. Your company filed and won a 1 year waiver from the FCC to avoid deploying STBs with Cablecards back in Jun 2007. They then tried to push for another 3 year waiver to avoid deploying CCs. Now since the Moto 72xx series DVRs supposedly have MCards in them and the very same pixelization seen by Tivos was seen by customers of these boxes, Verizon quickly redeployed 64xx based Moto DVR everywhere in my neighborhood. The implication being that Verizon fought against CCs and till this very day are still fighting it and don't appear capable or willing to even try to make their system work with CCs. I suppose redeploying the 64xx DVRs will "learn em'" though, uh? Now your lawyers are armed with their "manufactured losses" to try to snivel their way to another waiver from the FCC is more likely the real game being played.

Of course there is no reason that Verizon's service shouldn't be able to provide a signal that works with Tivos. I had TWC installed recently and have had ZERO errors on any channels since it was installed. Verizon's playing the "dumb fox" with Cablecards and Tivos and you know it.


----------



## casino187

i was having pixelation and audio dropouts on my qam hd channels. I think I just figured it out. instead of typing in channel 91, i am typing in channgel 91-1. i thought they were the same, but it seems like it solved the problem.


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## lrhorer

exdishguy said:


> Well I think you've hit on something - the dynamic range of the Tivo tuners appears to be pretty narrow....or crappy, depending on your perspective.


No, it's not narrow, at all. In fact, when I did some testing, I was surprised at how wide it is, given the bandwidth of the receiver. I never had the time to complete the testing, and the amp I was using was faulty, so I wasn't able to increase the level as much as I wanted (to the failure point) or pad the signal to failure, either. That said, with a 700MHz spectrum on the local system, the TiVo was able to receive channels without uncorrected errors all the way up to +4 dBmV and down to -14 dBmV. I did start to see some corrected errors at +4 dBmV.



exdishguy said:


> But the Fios signal is also an issue in some installs because the dynamic range of the signal varies so widely across the band. And this variation doesn't appear to be monotonic either and/or a steady slope from one end of the band to the other. The Fios signal also seems to fluctuate as well from day-to-day, week-to-week.


Given the FIOS topology, it most certainly should not. The signal only passes through two active analog devices - the modulator and the ONT, and the only passive element is the glass fiber, whose attenuation is exceedingly constant over time and temperature. We have 250 kilometer long fiber runs whose attenuation has not changed by 1/2 dB day or night, winter or summer, in over 15 years. By comparison, the average CATV customer's signal passes through at least a kilometer of aluminum coaxial cable whose attenuation varies significantly with temperature. This variation is countered somewhat by automatic gain controls in the CATV amplifiers, but typically the CATV subscriber's signal passes through several hundred meters of coaxial cable after the last amplifier. This section of plant has no compensation.


----------



## exdishguy

lrhorer said:


> No, it's not narrow, at all. In fact, when I did some testing, I was surprised at how wide it is, given the bandwidth of the receiver. I never had the time to complete the testing, and the amp I was using was faulty, so I wasn't able to increase the level as much as I wanted (to the failure point) or pad the signal to failure, either. That said, with a 700MHz spectrum on the local system, the TiVo was able to receive channels without uncorrected errors all the way up to +4 dBmV and down to -14 dBmV. I did start to see some corrected errors at +4 dBmV.
> 
> Given the FIOS topology, it most certainly should not. The signal only passes through two active analog devices - the modulator and the ONT, and the only passive element is the glass fiber, whose attenuation is exceedingly constant over time and temperature. We have 250 kilometer long fiber runs whose attenuation has not changed by 1/2 dB day or night, winter or summer, in over 15 years. By comparison, the average CATV customer's signal passes through at least a kilometer of aluminum coaxial cable whose attenuation varies significantly with temperature. This variation is countered somewhat by automatic gain controls in the CATV amplifiers, but typically the CATV subscriber's signal passes through several hundred meters of coaxial cable after the last amplifier. This section of plant has no compensation.


Thanks. Interestingly enough with TWC my signal strength is at 100% and SNR over 37dB in the Tivo DVR diag screen. Conversely the Fios signal needs to be attenuated down to 31dB and my signal strength is down in the 60s (or less) to achieve an improvement in the corrected/uncorrected errors. While these stats are probably not that accurate, I think they are at least indicative of the cause being something much more than simply the Fios signal is "too hot". I'll be interested to see how TWC measures on the Sunrise meter when the Fios tech comes back to try one last time to fix their signal.


----------



## dwgsp

I'm still struggling with how to determine the fix for my pixelation problem. I have TWC (not FIOS) and I occasionally see pixelation on HD channels. The problem seems to be both time and channel dependent. When I am seeing pixelation, it seems to occur more often when there is a scene change in the program that I am watching.

It sounds like I should be looking at the Tivo DVR Diagnostics screen, and in particular at fields such as RS Corrected Errors, RS Uncorrected Errors, Signal Strength, SNR, etc. I can guess what most of these fields indicate, but I don't know how to evaluate my situation based on the values in these fields. In other words, what would the ranges of values that indicate a "good" signal, and what should I do if one or more is "bad"?

Thanks!
/Don

Thanks!
/Don


----------



## exdishguy

dwgsp said:


> I'm still struggling with how to determine the fix for my pixelation problem. I have TWC (not FIOS) and I occasionally see pixelation on HD channels. The problem seems to be both time and channel dependent. When I am seeing pixelation, it seems to occur more often when there is a scene change in the program that I am watching.
> 
> It sounds like I should be looking at the Tivo DVR Diagnostics screen, and in particular at fields such as RS Corrected Errors, RS Uncorrected Errors, Signal Strength, SNR, etc. I can guess what most of these fields indicate, but I don't know how to evaluate my situation based on the values in these fields. In other words, what would the ranges of values that indicate a "good" signal, and what should I do if one or more is "bad"?
> 
> Thanks!
> /Don
> 
> Thanks!
> /Don


I'd have TWC come out and check the signal level for you. Based on lrhorer's testing of his cable signals into the Tivo your signal should probably be set in that range - perhaps 0dBmV would be a good target. I'm going to have the Fios guy put his meter on my TWC signal and can let you know what my levels are. I see very few hiccups with my setup - zero RS corrected/uncorrected errors - but with an occasional glitch just after changing a channel on certain channels (which is perhaps more to do with the TA/SDV).


----------



## exdishguy

lrhorer said:


> That said, with a 700MHz spectrum on the local system, the TiVo was able to receive channels without uncorrected errors all the way up to +4 dBmV and down to -14 dBmV. I did start to see some corrected errors at +4 dBmV.


BTW - what does the DOCSIS spec call for? Isn't it -15 dBmV to +15 dBmV ?


----------



## exdishguy

Well I had Verizon here again and the tech installed a direct Cat5 run from the ONT to my Actiontek router and the FSC supposedly turned off mocha. I also had him put a low pass filter right on the RF output of the ONT and then attenuated the signal down until the Tivo showed 32dB SNR. The result was not good. I still have boat loads of RS uncorrected errors on certain channels.

I also had him measure across the band and in general is was really quite flat - roughly 3.5dBmV on lower channels up to 6.8dBmV on the higher channels. Clearly, there is some tilt compensation going on but the range is so nominal I doubt that that is where my issues lay. I had him measure the TWC signal as well and they ran -2.4dBmV up to -3.8dBmV. We then attenuated to get in that ballpark with the Fios signal and still had pixelization. Tomorrow some other guys are coming to check the node near my house and further upstream. 

At this point it certainly looks like I'll be keeping TWC and dumping Fios TV.


----------



## hmm52

exdishguy said:


> Well I had Verizon here again and the tech installed a direct Cat5 run from the ONT to my Actiontek router and the FSC supposedly turned off mocha. I also had him put a low pass filter right on the RF output of the ONT and then attenuated the signal down until the Tivo showed 32dB SNR. The result was not good. I still have boat loads of RS uncorrected errors on certain channels.
> 
> I also had him measure across the band and in general is was really quite flat - roughly 3.5dBmV on lower channels up to 6.8dBmV on the higher channels. Clearly, there is some tilt compensation going on but the range is so nominal I doubt that that is where my issues lay. I had him measure the TWC signal as well and they ran -2.4dBmV up to -3.8dBmV. We then attenuated to get in that ballpark with the Fios signal and still had pixelization. Tomorrow some other guys are coming to check the node near my house and further upstream.
> 
> At this point it certainly looks like I'll be keeping TWC and dumping Fios TV.


What you have found with side by side cable comparison is interesting, and not surprising. It's been my thought that signal level itself isn't the reason for errors and pixelation; just that adjustment of level can help weak tuners (TiVo & Toshiba in my experience) cleanly tune error loaded feeds. It sounds like the tech could have adjusted your FiOS signal to anything and there still would be tiling/pixelation on certain frequencies. I would be surprised if the upstream problem turns out to be anywhere other than your central office.

I don't agree that Verizon ever intentionally undermined cablecard use. It's a peripheral issue. I had great success with cards and FiOS from 11/06 until first tiling episodes 7/07. My guess is that siignal errors are expensive for them to fix so it has to be more than just TiVo users affected to get them moving on it.

Some have proposed that TiVo couldn't have done any better with their cablecard QAM tuners. I don't buy it. I have 3 Sony cc QAM devices that have routinely tuned FiOS at orders of magnitude better than the S3. They were all built in '05.

That said, I haven't seen any pixelation through the TiVo since June.


----------



## exdishguy

hmm52 said:


> What you have found with side by side cable comparison is interesting, and not surprising. It's been my thought that signal level itself isn't the reason for errors and pixelation; just that adjustment of level can help weak tuners (TiVo & Toshiba in my experience) cleanly tune error loaded feeds. It sounds like the tech could have adjusted your FiOS signal to anything and there still would be tiling/pixelation on certain frequencies. I would be surprised if the upstream problem turns out to be anywhere other than your central office.
> 
> I don't agree that Verizon ever intentionally undermined cablecard use. It's a peripheral issue. I had great success with cards and FiOS from 11/06 until first tiling episodes 7/07. My guess is that siignal errors are expensive for them to fix so it has to be more than just TiVo users affected to get them moving on it.
> 
> Some have proposed that TiVo couldn't have done any better with their cablecard QAM tuners. I don't buy it. I have 3 Sony cc QAM devices that have routinely tuned FiOS at orders of magnitude better than the S3. They were all built in '05.
> 
> That said, I haven't seen any pixelation through the TiVo since June.


Well I hope Verizon finds the problem....but after 6 months, I'm really fed up. The TWC service works and looks pretty darn good. Much better than I expected.

As far as the CC conspiracy theory....I'm probably being a bit rough on them. Then again, they did in fact fight it and got waiver...then applied for a 3-year waiver. They also have replaced most of the newer Moto DVRs (7xxx series) because they had too many HDMI and CC issues with them - they put the old integrated security boxes back in. That said, I think the waiver expired this past summer http://www.multichannel.com/article/133256-Verizon_Bites_CableCard_Bullet.php so I'm open to the idea that Verizon was not conspiring, rather, have not exactly bent over backwards to comply with the FCC.


----------



## exdishguy

hmm52 said:


> I had great success with cards and FiOS from 11/06 until first tiling episodes 7/07.


BTW - I wonder if this is about the time they started changing from BPON to GPON based FTTH?

Either way, the ONTs use an "RF overlay" feature as well as a triplexer. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the issue may be related to either of those - depending on the ONT model, firmware installed in it, customer's cable plant, etc. etc. I think Verizon needs to get Motorola involved but doubt I'll be able to motivate either company to dig into this issue. But I'm going to keep trying....


----------



## ciucca

exdishguy said:


> Well I had Verizon here again and the tech installed a direct Cat5 run from the ONT to my Actiontek router and the FSC supposedly turned off mocha. I also had him put a low pass filter right on the RF output of the ONT and then attenuated the signal down until the Tivo showed 32dB SNR. The result was not good. I still have boat loads of RS uncorrected errors on certain channels.
> 
> I also had him measure across the band and in general is was really quite flat - roughly 3.5dBmV on lower channels up to 6.8dBmV on the higher channels. Clearly, there is some tilt compensation going on but the range is so nominal I doubt that that is where my issues lay. I had him measure the TWC signal as well and they ran -2.4dBmV up to -3.8dBmV. We then attenuated to get in that ballpark with the Fios signal and still had pixelization. Tomorrow some other guys are coming to check the node near my house and further upstream.
> 
> At this point it certainly looks like I'll be keeping TWC and dumping Fios TV.


I'm sure the FIOS techs in your areas are having a party. Dealing with people like you takes a lot of patience. Your just another TIVO lover in denial. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a duck!


----------



## webin

ciucca said:


> I'm sure the FIOS techs in your areas are having a party. Dealing with people like you takes a lot of patience. Your just another TIVO lover in denial. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a duck!


Yep, because asking for Verizon to provide the service we pay for (and they are federally required to support CCs)..... that's really too much to ask for.

Stop trolling and go away.


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## exdishguy

ciucca said:


> I'm sure the FIOS techs in your areas are having a party. Dealing with people like you takes a lot of patience. Your just another TIVO lover in denial. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a duck!


LOL...people like me? You mean paying customers you friggin' arrogant twit? As in, paying your paycheck? You're an embarrassment to many of the fine men and women of Verizon. The guys that have been here have all seen, acknowledged, and continue to seek a solution to the problem.

BTW - TWC is having a party enjoying the show. The sight of your Verizon trucks rolling one after another and not being able to solve the problem...all while the TWC signal is clean and works beautifully with my Tivos, is really quite laughable. And I'm laughing my a$$ off having a party finally watching HD video that actually works on my Tivos. Can you say "cha ching?"


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## webin

ciucca said:


> The problem you and a lot of other people will not accept that the issue is with the TIVO.


We've had pages and pages of this argument, I won't continue it with you here.


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## exdishguy

ciucca said:


> I'm not going to argue with you anymore Einstein. hahaha!!!


Tough to argue when you have no argument. TWC works - Fios TV does not. Period.

My only regret is that the money I will no longer being spending on Fios TV is not (yet) coming out of your pocket because you represent the very worst that Verizon has to offer. Read: you should be FIRED if you really do work for Verizon.

To the moderators, I really don't know why you allow a troll like this on this forum. He clearly has no agenda other than to trash Tivo and troll on behalf of his employer, Verizon. Why isn't this guy banned yet?


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## Klankster

I'm using a TiVo Series 3 and Cisco tuning adapter on TWC. We have been using a DirecTV HR10-250 TiVo but since they have been switching to the new MPEG4 technology, and we have gradually been losing HD channels, we switched to the Series3 and TWC.

Overallm we're pretty pleased with the switch, but we do occasionally have dropouts, image freezing etc. that lasts a second or so at a time (I'm watching SciFi HD and this has been happening a lot tonight). I was looking at the diagnostics and it is showing the following for both cablecards:

Signal strength fluctuating between 81 and 86. SNR between 33 and 34DB. OOB SNR: 26DB.

Do these signal levels look like they're too low? I'd appreciate some information on what signal level is appropriate/desirable. Thanks!


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## exdishguy

Klankster said:


> I'm using a TiVo Series 3 and Cisco tuning adapter on TWC. We have been using a DirecTV HR10-250 TiVo but since they have been switching to the new MPEG4 technology, and we have gradually been losing HD channels, we switched to the Series3 and TWC.
> 
> Overallm we're pretty pleased with the switch, but we do occasionally have dropouts, image freezing etc. that lasts a second or so at a time (I'm watching SciFi HD and this has been happening a lot tonight). I was looking at the diagnostics and it is showing the following for both cablecards:
> 
> Signal strength fluctuating between 81 and 86. SNR between 33 and 34DB. OOB SNR: 26DB.
> 
> Do these signal levels look like they're too low? I'd appreciate some information on what signal level is appropriate/desirable. Thanks!


That seems a little low compared to mine - I'm in the 100% tuner and 38+SNR, But you should be okay with what you are seeing.

The image freezes, dropouts, etc. may be attributed in some apart to the TA. Check the firmware version of it - I'd bet you're still on the older .0701 and need to get upgraded to .0801


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## 84lion

Aarrgh. I am having this trouble with both my Tivo HDs. At first I thought it was a problem with just the newer Tivo but then I saw my wife's Tivo doing it too. (She: "Oh yeah, I noticed that." Me: Sigh. Please tell me when that happens, honey.) They're on the same coax line, split to both Tivos. Until about a week or two ago I didn't have this problem. I checked the Diagnostics and signal strength on the offending HD channels was about 81 while SD channels were in the low 60s. SNR about low 30s. In the course of several hours I was getting tens of thousands of corrected errors and about 10% of that number uncorrected errors. This manifests itself in momentary pixelization and glitching.

I put in an old Radio Shack in-line amp. Now my signal strength is in the 90s but fluctuates between, say, 93 and 100. And I am still getting corrected and uncorrected errors. They appear to be fewer and the number of errors seem to depend upon the channel selected. SNR is up a couple points, 33 to 35. 

I believe what is happening is that the signal from the street is marginal and if there are any "noise spikes" these manifest themselves as the glitches. I am going to try a few things over the weekend but if this continues I intend to call Comcast and get them to check it.


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## CJDOG

So after 8 days of a new Tivo with Verizon FIOS and 1 M-cablecard, I am still having pixelation problems on many channels. I have called Tivo, they suggested a new M-card. I had swapped one out of my existing Verizon STB and still saw issues. Anyway Verizon came out and swapped the m-card, same issues (re-ran Tivo guided setup too)! Then the Verizon tech did all the nonsense they do inside my house. 

First he started with attenuators; he hooked up his test device and measured, tried lots of combinations but could never totally eliminate the pixelation. We got close, with about 5-10 channels that consistently had pixelation. In fact, with too much attenuation some channels could not even be tuned! So, that was not much of a help.
Next he replaced all my splitters in the house leading to the Tivo (I only had 2 splitters prior to the signal reaching Tivo). Did not help at all!
Then he called a "buddy" and together they replaced my ONT on the outside of my house with the latest one approved for my area. Apparently mine was pretty old as I got FIOS internet service years before it was able to distribute TV signals. Still no change in the pixelation!
At 9:30pm they finally left my house telling me they were going to have a "real techy" supervisor give me a call. 2 days later, I'm still awaiting the call! 
So I decided to re-run the guided setup for Tivo and this time I chose a Verizon provider that was NOT my current location. I picked Verizon Freehold instead of my correct location provider Verizon of Southern New Jersey. After Tivo did all it's updating/downloading/reorganizing, I tuned into about 13 different stations to see if the pixelation was still there. Every channel I tuned was beautiful! ZERO pixelation! Signal strength of 100% and SNR holding consistently at 37 or 38 db. Then I got out my paper where I had been recording the bad stations prior and compared the Freehold stations and frequencies to my original Southern New Jersey stations and frequencies. Turns out most are coming in on different frequencies. Comparing the two, I observed that some identical frequencies existed between both locations. Some were error free on both, while another channel that was very bad on my home location provider was not nearly as bad on the Freehold location - much much lower number of uncorrected errors. On both, the frequency was the same - 435.
So what can be concluded from this? I have a much higher success rate choosing the wrong location than using the correct location. Most of the channels are received on different frequencies ranging from the 300s up to high 600s.


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## richsadams

CJDOG said:


> So I decided to re-run the guided setup for Tivo and this time I chose a Verizon provider that was NOT my current location. I picked Verizon Freehold instead of my correct location provider Verizon of Southern New Jersey. After Tivo did all it's updating/downloading/reorganizing, I tuned into about 13 different stations to see if the pixelation was still there. Every channel I tuned was beautiful! ZERO pixelation! Signal strength of 100% and SNR holding consistently at 37 or 38 db. Then I got out my paper where I had been recording the bad stations prior and compared the Freehold stations and frequencies to my original Southern New Jersey stations and frequencies. Turns out most are coming in on different frequencies. Comparing the two, I observed that some identical frequencies existed between both locations. Some were error free on both, while another channel that was very bad on my home location provider was not nearly as bad on the Freehold location - much much lower number of uncorrected errors. On both, the frequency was the same - 435.
> So what can be concluded from this? I have a much higher success rate choosing the wrong location than using the correct location. Most of the channels are received on different frequencies ranging from the 300s up to high 600s.


That's very valuable info IMHO. Thanks for that. :up: I'll leave it to the gurus here to sort out what it all means, but that's certainly some enlightening news.


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## exdishguy

richsadams said:


> That's very valuable info IMHO. Thanks for that. :up: I'll leave it to the gurus here to sort out what it all means, but that's certainly some enlightening news.


Indeed. Very insightful. I like the approach to isolating the problem.

Please let us know how you make out CJDOG.


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## Klankster

I had some similar troubleshooting on my Series 3 done the other day. See *this message* for details.

So far, so good.


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## CJDOG

So 5 days later here's where I'm at: I configured the Tivo and the Verizon Moto STB to display side-by-side on my tv (split-screen). The 4th Verizon tech was supposed to come to my house called to tell me they had no cablecards and had to reschedule (cablecards? why?) Anyway when they came out today, they first checked my fibre connections before the ONT. They went up the pole and cleaned, checked and re-seated the connection. Then did the same at the termination point in my neighborhood-cleaned, checked and re-seated; still no change. I then convinced the tech to utilize a spare strand within my neighborhood on the same port; no luck. Then we moved my exiting fibre cable and connection to another port; no luck. We tried the spare strand on another port as well; no change. Next we moved back inside the house and ran another new homerun from my ONT to the Tivo taking care to find a new path that was not near any parts of the old path to rule out in-line interference along the way. We had no splitters, no attenuation; same issue. Signal strength on the Tivo jumped from 100 down to ZERO at one point- it kept moving all around. The SNR as you would imagine moved all over as well. On the other half of the screen, I had put the QIP6416 into diagnostic mode (pwr off then hit sel, sel quickly) went into screen D04 and watched the Moto box hold a steady SNR; never going below 35.6db! Then we watched a HD National Network channel (NBC-510 on my location on 507000Khz). The Verizon tech was amazed how bad the macroblocking was with the Tivo unit, the Moto box pulled a perfect picture! Fair to say, the signal being delivered by Verizon was not the issue at this point-or to the connection point of my Tivo. (BTW USB & 1394 ports on the QIP6416 are in fact active, that's another conversation). Next I got Tivo on the line and handed the phone to the Verizon tech only to hear Tivo say, it's a signal problem! Tivo tech support said their box is fine, nothing more they can do and did not want to talk any further with Verizon. Perfect time for the 2 companies to work together and solve a big problem-oh well! I escalated within Tivo to some L2 guy who was no help either. The Verizon tech was shocked at their lack of concern and "not my problem" attitude the Tivo folks displayed. I got to hand it to Verizon, they are really trying to solve my issues (of course if I was paid hourly, with OT, I'd park my carcass at a customer site too). Anyway, Verizon had to leave; they already spent 4.5hrs at my house. I was able to push Tivo to send me a replacement box as their 'next step'. I was pretty confident it would have the same issues. I also pushed them to send me some 'freebies' for all my troubles. Seriously, I have spent 3.3hrs on the phone with Tivo over the past 8 days! 
*Now to the good stuff...*
Early this morning before Verizon arrived, I went to yahoo finance looked up the Tivo top executives and sent a scathing email to Tom and 4 folks just below him. I ranted about the poor service I had received, the inordinately long hold times within their phone system, the finger pointing back to my cable carrier and closed the email with the fact that I paid over $500 for a device that does not work as promised! Shortly after Verizon left my house and I had finished giving the L2 Tivo guy an earful, my phone rings from some California number? When I answer, some guy says he's from Tivo and wants to talk to me?! I ask if he is referring to my open case with Tivo (I did not include that in my email) he's like what open case? I'm not yet at liberty to speak freely about this, but I expect a resolution to come from Tivo in the mid-May to June timeframe. No hardware will be required. Hang in their gang, I'll get to the bottom of this....


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## substance12

cjdog: thanks! great post. can't wait!


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## exdishguy

CJDOG said:


> Early this morning before Verizon arrived, I went to yahoo finance looked up the Tivo top executives and sent a scathing email to Tom and 4 folks just below him. I ranted about the poor service I had received, the inordinately long hold times within their phone system, the finger pointing back to my cable carrier and closed the email with the fact that I paid over $500 for a device that does not work as promised! Shortly after Verizon left my house and I had finished giving the L2 Tivo guy an earful, my phone rings from some California number? When I answer, some guy says he's from Tivo and wants to talk to me?! I ask if he is referring to my open case with Tivo (I did not include that in my email) he's like what open case? I'm not yet at liberty to speak freely about this, but I expect a resolution to come from Tivo in the mid-May to June timeframe. No hardware will be required. Hang in their gang, I'll get to the bottom of this....


I went down this path as well with my three Tivo HDs and had an L2 guy supposedly escalate the issue. The promised "fix" was never committed to and I received much the same treatment as you did - maybe worse. I do think the Moto DVR box at least demonstrates that the Tivo tuners could be better. However, in my case, once I switched to TWC all of my Tivo HDs worked perfectly with zero errors. So I am convinced that both parties are to blame for this issue, yet, both are more than happy to continue to market and promote each other's technology as compatible with the other and for those of us that can't get them working together, we get hosed!


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## CJDOG

My case is far above Level 2 support. I am cautiously skeptical about this 'promised' fix. I will say however, my contact at Tivo has been responsive to me and has delivered on other promises already made to me. From that perspective, I really want to be optimistic. We have an open dialogue however my gut feeling is 'they' are not quite getting the point about how many of their customers this affects and how terribly frustration it is. We are so accustomed to our TVs working! plain and simple-turn it on, it works! just like a toaster-put in a slice of bread, push it down, minutes later it pops up-TOAST! Now when you shell out your hard earned dollars to purchase a 'non-essential' media related item and it don't work-MAN, that just irritates the heck out of you! That is the point they are missing. It's almost like they know they have us and they'll get to a fix on their own terms - no sense of urgency around our issue! It is this point I am pushing them on. So the ball is in their court (so to speak) and my communications with them will not cease until we have a pixelation fix in place. I've also worked up a document detailing precisely how many hours Verizon techs wasted at my home trying to resolve this issue. It really is not something a tech can resolve, just mask. If you aggregate the total hours spent across all the folks with issues, we've got a decent sized number of man hours spent on this - costing Verizon money and then ultimately passed on to the consumer! I will be contacting the Verizon execs to see if I can get them interested in joining in on the fun...


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## lhntx

I am having a lot less pixel problems after comcast came out again. First they said that the problem was that the signal from the pole was TOO high so they changed it. No problems for a couple of weeks, then I started getting NO signal on many channels so they came out and readjusted again. I am now occasionaly having pixel problems.


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## oregonman

CJDOG said:


> Hang in their gang, I'll get to the bottom of this....


Thanks for pursuing this so doggedly. I am still having pixilation problems (FIOS) after trying the attenuation and filter "fixes" and am just living with it, hoping that TIVO and Verizon will find a solution. I haven't had the energy to pursue it beyond one Verizon service call.


----------



## CJDOG

oregonman said:


> Thanks for pursuing this so doggedly. I am still having pixilation problems (FIOS) after trying the attenuation and filter "fixes" and am just living with it, hoping that TIVO and Verizon will find a solution. I haven't had the energy to pursue it beyond one Verizon service call.


Yeah, don't worry, I'm not letting Tivo off the hook for this one. I did talk with them last week, the 'fix' is still on target for a mid-May or early June timeframe. We are getting close and hopefully, I will be able to report back here with some encouraging news for us. Keep your fingers crossed and don't waste your time on it further. I believe the path I'm on, should help others who have not had luck with attenuation or LPFs.


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## dslunceford

I certainly hope the issue can be addressed with software push of some kind. I'm split between this being hardware or signal related.

I have one box that's just fine, never any problem, but the family room has had blocking from the beginning and attenuators/having VZ come out has done nothing; neither did switching out a box with TiVo when probs first cropped up.

The blocking problems were never on heavily watched channels, so it was minor annoyance. Lately, however, in addition to blocking during programming on rarely-watched shows, I've seen issues on most-watched channels like Fox and ABC; strangest thing is, it doesn't happen during show content, but happens when commercials are on (especially as signal moves from a show to a commercial). That doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what's been happening (started about 30-45 days ago).


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## GmanTiVo

I live in Ridgewood, NJ (Northern NJ) and have been a happy TIVO S3 owner since Oct.'06 - 2 years with Cablevision, the rest with FIOS, never a problem nor a glitch.

About mid March I too satarted to experience pixelation, freezes and stuttering on all HD channels 

I have since:

ran kickstart 54 (both drives passed)
kickstart 57 and 58
erased all recording older than 1 month
erased / cleaned the RD folder, re ran ks 57 & 58 after this
used all attenuator/splitter combos- from none to -25db
changed the location / zip code in guided setup (used all 5 NJ and 4 NY areas available)
swapped my cablecards from slot 1 & 2
added the VSMA 601C line amplifier by itself and in combo with attenuators

NADA

my pixelation across most HD FIOS channels remains 

If I have missed any other possible remedy, and yes I will consider snake oil or hiring a ju-ju man, please let me know...... I am getting close the the F*ck you both TIVO and FIOS point. 

Thanks,

Gman


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## Phantom Gremlin

GmanTiVo said:


> If I have missed any other possible remedy, and yes I will consider snake oil or hiring a ju-ju man, please let me know...... I am getting close the the F*ck you both TIVO and FIOS point.


Order a DVR from Verizon and have them install it where your TiVo is now. It would be interesting to see if it also has signal problems. If it does, then you know for sure that the problem is with the service, and you can force Verizon to fix it.

And if it works, then surely a crappy DVR from Verizon is better than no DVR at all?


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## GmanTiVo

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Order a DVR from Verizon and have them install it where your TiVo is now. It would be interesting to see if it also has signal problems. If it does, then you know for sure that the problem is with the service, and you can force Verizon to fix it.
> 
> And if it works, then surely a crappy DVR from Verizon is better than no DVR at all?


I have 3 crappy Veirzon Motorola HD DVRs in the house... one on top of my Tivo, as a backup... and it never has a problem. I just really don't like using it.

As I see it, TIVO is too lazy to fix via hardware the problem and FIOS is deliberately undermining TIVO by exploiting Tivo's weakness (within the law), so both are at fault because my viewing enjoyment is compromised and my freedom of choice is restricted.

Gman


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## richsadams

GmanTiVo said:


> As I see it, TIVO is too lazy to fix via hardware the problem and FIOS is deliberately undermining TIVO by exploiting Tivo's weakness (within the law), so both are at fault because my viewing enjoyment is compromised and my freedom of choice is restricted.


That's a statement that I can get behind to some extent. However I don't think it's so much laziness or nefarious agendas. I think it really boils down to numbers. The fact is that the percentage of people w/FIOS _and_ TiVo is very small. I truly believe both company's are interested in the best product experience possible. But in the grand scheme of things both FIOS and TiVo have bigger fish to fry. Although it seems like the whole world is saying that there's a problem on this forum (and a few others), it really doesn't amount to a great percentage of either company's customer base...at least at this time.

Resources are finite, particularly in the current economy. If they're to be dedicated to one area or another, the winner will be the issue(s) that get the biggest bang for the buck. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should be resigned to the status quo...plenty of noise should be made. But the reality is that this issue isn't going to be a "level one priority" until it commands more attention than other issues with which both companies are dealing. The ability to affect a company's revenue stream is proportional. So there are improvements to be made and it's likely to be on everyone's "to do list", but behind some higher priority items. In the meantime it'll probably be a patchwork of fixes on a local basis.

Again, no one should give up. This needs to be addressed sooner than later. :up:


----------



## bkdtv

GmanTiVo said:


> As I see it, TIVO is too lazy to fix via hardware the problem and FIOS is deliberately undermining TIVO by exploiting Tivo's weakness (within the law), so both are at fault because my viewing enjoyment is compromised and my freedom of choice is restricted.


Have you signed up at *TiVo Field Trials site*?  That's what TiVo uses to pick its testers, which then play a significant role in what issues get fixed.

If you want this problem to be addressed, you should (a) call TiVo and let them know about it, and (b) sign up at the *TiVo Field Trials* to increase the pool of testers that experience it. If everyone that complained here would spend the two minutes to sign up, this issue would've been addressed *long ago*.

When TiVo randomly picks testers, they aren't going to prioritize a problem that affects 1 in 100 testers. But if 15 in 100 testers experience the problem, it is not going to fall on deaf ears.

Signing up is no guarantee that you will be randomly picked to test TiVo software. But if more people here sign up, that will directly translate into more people being randomly picked to help TiVo determine what issues are fixed and prioritized for fix.


----------



## cpettis

bkdtv said:


> [Snip]
> 
> Signing up is no guarantee that you will be randomly picked to test TiVo software. But if more people here sign up, that will directly translate into more people being randomly picked to help TiVo determine what issues are fixed and prioritized for fix.


Signed up and registered both my HD TIVO's and my PC.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

GmanTiVo said:


> I have 3 crappy Veirzon Motorola HD DVRs in the house... one on top of my Tivo, as a backup... and it never has a problem. I just really don't like using it.


Okay, maybe you have already done the following. But if not, then humor me ...

Disconnect the coax that goes to the Verizon DVR on top of your TiVo and connect it directly to your TiVo. (This isn't the same thing as using a different output of the same splitter!). Does this improve your TiVo?

Also, disconnect the coax that goes to your TiVo and connect it to your Verizon DVR. Does it still work?

Rarely do people report doing direct A/B coax swaps between working and non-working boxes. It's usually something along the lines of the "upstairs" DVR works while the "basement" TiVo doesn't. Or similar apples/oranges.


----------



## richsadams

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Rarely do people report doing direct A/B coax swaps between working and non-working boxes. It's usually something along the lines of the "upstairs" DVR works while the "basement" TiVo doesn't. Or similar apples/oranges.


Good point(s). :up:


----------



## CJDOG

richsadams said:


> Again, no one should give up. This needs to be addressed sooner than later. :up:


I totally agree with this Rich! During my conversations with Tivo (not the 1-800-customer support folks) they are aware of our issues with FIOS & Tivo. I also know they have a fix in the works and it will be delivered to a some "beta" testers shortly - about 1-2weeks. I am on that short list. Just by signing up to the Tivo Field Trials, does not guarantee your Tivo will get any beta software. As several folks have already stated, limited resources and a small affected user population puts this lower on their "list". But as the saying goes "the squeaky wheel..." Well, I am that squeaky wheel and Tivo is listening (finally and in my opinion way too late). The next week or 2 will tell us if we can put an end to all this wasted effort and just enjoy the product we purchased. Technology is great when it works but darn right annoying when it doesn't.
Here's a shot of my side-by-side Tivo & Verizon STB.


----------



## richsadams

Good work CJDOG! (And this isn't a mutual admiration thing  ) I signed up for the beta tests as well. I'd be thrilled to give the new software a try. Since I've only seen macroblocking, etc. a few times I'm not as frustrated with the situation as everyone else probably is, but I hate even the faintest glitch while I'm watching TV.

For me it seems it's an almost all or nothing experience. RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors are almost always 0 on both tuners. But when things go south they do it in a hurry. The other night we started watching Gray's Anatomy about 25 minutes into the recording. I noticed small macroblocking/pixelization and quickly checked the stats. The RS Uncorrected errors were around 1200 while the corrected errors shot through the roof...over 5 million before the show was over.  So the actual viewing experience wasn't terrible...just the odd garbled pixels here and there...but it was annoying. That never happened when we had Comcast. (The FIOS PQ is far better at least) Again, that's not the norm, things are usually fine, but when it happens it's very frustrating. 

Having had a number of calbeco's over the years and satellite as well I know that digital transmissions can/will never be perfect but the FIOS issue is an obvious and manageable issue that can be overcome IMHO. 

I really hope that the "fix is in" as they say and that TiVo can generate an upgrade to deal with it. Anyone waiting for a hardware fix shouldn't hold their breath. However we've seen problems much greater than this addressed with OS upgrades, so I'm confident that it can be done.

Thanks again for the positive feedback and continued tenacity with TiVo! :up:


----------



## ciucca

Thanks CJDOG for pointing out how Verizon bends over backwards for their customers when they know the problem is not with their equipment. You are much more reasonable and intelligent than the other people who post on this thread.

The other people here do not need to worry I will not post on this board anymore. Except for a few people, the majority of people here, really do not now much regardless what they think.


----------



## richsadams

ciucca said:


> Thanks CJDOG for pointing out how Verizon bends over backwards for their customers when they know the problem is not with their equipment. You are much more reasonable and intelligent than the other people who post on this thread.
> 
> The other people here do not need to worry I will not post on this board anymore. Except for a few people, the majority of people here, really do not now much regardless what they think.


Okay, I'm confused. I looked back through some of your posts and from day one you've said the problem lies with TiVo and TiVo only...nothing to do with FIOS...period. You've made up your mind and that's that. That's fine. But then CJDOG posted that TiVo is trying to do something about it and you ridicule him?  Then you take the time to insult the rest of us that are trying to make a difference? Can you be any more helpful?


----------



## webin

richsadams said:


> Okay, I'm confused. I looked back through some of your posts and from day one you've said the problem lies with TiVo and TiVo only...nothing to do with FIOS...period. You've made up your mind and that's that. That's fine. But then CJDOG posted that TiVo is trying to do something about it and you ridicule him?  Then you take the time to insult the rest of us that are trying to make a difference? Can you be any more helpful?


Don't feed the professional troll, Rich. If he's really leaving the forums, let him go quickly and without interruption.

BTW... I was recently selected for field trials (without specifically signing up first). I was under the impression you couldn't talk about your participation or what may (or may not) be tested during such trials. Am I just naive?


----------



## richsadams

webin said:


> Don't feed the professional troll, Rich. If he's really leaving the forums, let him go quickly and without interruption.
> 
> BTW... I was recently selected for field trials (without specifically signing up first). I was under the impression you couldn't talk about your participation or what may (or may not) be tested during such trials. Am I just naive?


Yeah...just one of those head scratcher moments to be filed under "What the...?"

Excellent about the field trials...local representation and all. :up: I haven't been selected so not sure what the NDA says. IIRC other folks have said that they can't say much though.


----------



## GmanTiVo

richsadams said:


> That's a statement that I can get behind to some extent. However I don't think it's so much laziness or nefarious agendas. *I think it really boils down to numbers. The fact is that the percentage of people w/FIOS and TiVo is very small. I truly believe both company's are interested in the best product experience possible. But in the grand scheme of things both FIOS and TiVo have bigger fish to fry. *Although it seems like the whole world is saying that there's a problem on this forum (and a few others), it really doesn't amount to a great percentage of either company's customer base...at least at this time.
> 
> Resources are finite, particularly in the current economy. If they're to be dedicated to one area or another, the winner will be the issue(s) that get the biggest bang for the buck. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should be resigned to the status quo...plenty of noise should be made. But the reality is that this issue isn't going to be a "level one priority" until it commands more attention than other issues with which both companies are dealing. The ability to affect a company's revenue stream is proportional. So there are improvements to be made and it's likely to be on everyone's "to do list", but behind some higher priority items. In the meantime it'll probably be a patchwork of fixes on a local basis.
> 
> Again, no one should give up. This needs to be addressed sooner than later. :up:


good point


----------



## GmanTiVo

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Okay, maybe you have already done the following. But if not, then humor me ...
> 
> Disconnect the coax that goes to the Verizon DVR on top of your TiVo and connect it directly to your TiVo. (This isn't the same thing as using a different output of the same splitter!). Does this improve your TiVo?
> 
> Also, disconnect the coax that goes to your TiVo and connect it to your Verizon DVR. Does it still work?
> 
> *Rarely do people report doing direct A/B coax swaps between working and non-working boxes*. It's usually something along the lines of the "upstairs" DVR works while the "basement" TiVo doesn't. Or similar apples/oranges.


I thought that from all the testing doen by me I didn't have to specify a such a basic step and will not take offense you asking me to do so, you're trying to be thurough and I should have written it down..... 

Yes I did.

I also have 2 seperate home run COAXs to the FIOS box in the basement and for fun I connected one of them straight into the fiber optic box (I think the lingo is ONT), and played around with attenuators/booster combos.

I also plugged into the chain, just for fun, a power surge with the COAX in / out, and an old AVR (Yamaha) with the COAX in / out.

I also used a rat shack A/B switch to have the same signal go into TIVO/TV, TIVO/Motorola... damn, both the Panasonic Plasma (pz800u)and Motorola kept working like there was nothing wrong with the signal 

Gman


----------



## GmanTiVo

CJDOG said:


> I totally agree with this Rich! During my conversations with Tivo (not the 1-800-customer support folks) they are aware of our issues with FIOS & Tivo. I also know they have a fix in the works and it will be delivered to a some "beta" testers shortly - about 1-2weeks. I am on that short list. Just by signing up to the Tivo Field Trials, does not guarantee your Tivo will get any beta software. As several folks have already stated, limited resources and a small affected user population puts this lower on their "list". But as the saying goes "the squeaky wheel..." Well, I am that squeaky wheel and Tivo is listening (finally and in my opinion way too late). The next week or 2 will tell us if we can put an end to all this wasted effort and just enjoy the product we purchased. Technology is great when it works but darn right annoying when it doesn't.
> Here's a shot of my side-by-side Tivo & Verizon STB.


*Nice work!!*
 

btw, the levels I have found to be the "least" problematic for me is Signal strength 50 ~ SNR 28 where I average approx 8,000 RS uncorrected in the 1st few min befor leveling off to about 100 per min.


----------



## CJDOG

OK, this may be my last post for a little bit. Tivo is pushing me to sign an NDA before they allow the beta to hit my tivo unit. Time will tell. keep your fingers crossed :up:!
I'll report back when I'm satisfied.


----------



## richsadams

CJDOG said:


> OK, this may be my last post for a little bit. Tivo is pushing me to sign an NDA before they allow the beta to hit my tivo unit. Time will tell. keep your fingers crossed :up:!
> I'll report back when I'm satisfied.


TIA for being a guinea pig...um...beta tester! Hopefully good news will follow when they unmuzzle you! :up:


----------



## GmanTiVo

CJDOG said:


> OK, this may be my last post for a little bit. Tivo is pushing me to sign an NDA before they allow the beta to hit my tivo unit. Time will tell. keep your fingers crossed :up:!
> I'll report back when I'm satisfied.


I am signed up but have not been tapped to beta test.

Good luck from your Norther NJ pixellation riddled bretheren.

Gman


----------



## webin

I removed my 6dB of attenuation last night and watched the entire 3 hours of Lost on ABC without a tinge of pixelation. I'll check other channels tonight (as I work through my backlog of recordings).


----------



## richsadams

So far the only channel I'm seeing consistent pixelizatoin/macroblocking issues on is ABC HD (FIOS 502). The problems are sporadic and fairly minor but still annoying. As previously mentioned, if we decide to watch while a recording is being made and I see it I'll look at the info screens. RS Uncorrected errors are in the high hundreds, sometimes a little over 1000. But RS Corrected errors are in the millions, more than 5 million sometimes. I only record some ABC programs at night. I've checked on the channel during the day using both tuners and both RS Corrected and Uncorrected remain at zero. 

Other channels appear to be fine. So for me 502 at night is problematic. I don't have any attenuation at the moment but when I find time I'll experiment a bit the SmartHome kit that I have sitting here.


----------



## Cybertron

Please feel free to point me to a relevant post if this has already been asked:

I just switched to Fios and had a Motorola Multi-stream card installed into my new Tivo HD, and several of the HD channels have pixelation issues. It mostly seems to be the networks (ABC, NBC, etc). The HD movie channels look ok so far. 

Any ideas?


----------



## richsadams

Use the search...it is your friend. Or instead you could look at the sticky threads at the very top of this forum. In fact, reading this very thread is probably a good idea. 

You might have a look at this one as well...

FIOS TV pixellation fix


----------



## Cybertron

Thanks.


----------



## cuppingmaster

So they came to setup mine yesterday, and many of the HD channels don't look all that much better from the SD channels. Specifically, things that are shiny or white look terrible, and the brightness is a lot different than what it was on a regular motorola TWC HD box. Bodies also look like they have shadows around them, or if someone is wearing a patterned suit or tie, it is distorted. Is this what others are referring to here?

I read the post about attenuators and stuff, but has anyone else has TWC had those work?

Thanks


----------



## bkdtv

cuppingmaster said:


> So they came to setup mine yesterday, and many of the HD channels don't look all that much better from the SD channels. Specifically, things that are shiny or white look terrible, and the brightness is a lot different than what it was on a regular motorola TWC HD box. Bodies also look like they have shadows around them, or if someone is wearing a patterned suit or tie, it is distorted. Is this what others are referring to here?


Make sure your TiVo is set to output HD. Set it to fixed 720p or fixed under Settings -> Video -> Video Output Format.

If you are using a using video input on your TiVo, you'll probably need to adjust your TV's settings. Most TVs store separate settings for each input.

If you are new to the TivoHD, also be sure to see the _Using TiVo_ link in my signature.


----------



## cuppingmaster

I've gotten the shinyness problem fixed by reducing the sharpness, so that helped somewhat. The picture itself though is just not sharp. Before I could truly see the pores in people's faces, now it's just a little softer. Reds are still very red, as are blues. Dark shows look especially bad, and whites are way too white.

I'm going to try some attenuators, as either way, it seems that SNR of 35 isn't all that great and that's what I'm at.. Does anyone have explanations for all the other stuff about the CableCARD info the have on the diagnostics screen?

Any other ideas? I like the flexibility of the TiVo, but I'm tempted to get the moto box back for the near flawless picture it gave me.


----------



## bkdtv

cuppingmaster said:


> Bodies also look like they have shadows around them, or if someone is wearing a patterned suit or tie, it is distorted. Is this what others are referring to here?


No. Nothing you have described has anything to do with pixelization, which is form of picture breakup. If your picture isn't breaking up, attenuators are not going to make a difference.



cuppingmaster said:


> I've gotten the shinyness problem fixed by reducing the sharpness, so that helped somewhat. The picture itself though is just not sharp. Before I could truly see the pores in people's faces, now it's just a little softer. Reds are still very red, as are blues. Dark shows look especially bad, and whites are way too white.


Those sound like calibration issues to me. If anything, the output of the TivoHD should be better than the Motorola box.


 Is the TiVo on fixed 1080i or fixed 720p?

 What type of cable are you using? HDMI or component?

 Are you using the *same* input you used with the Motorola box (ex: HDMI input #2)? Make sure that is the case.

 What is the make and model of your display?

Without more information, we can't diagnose the problem.


----------



## cuppingmaster

bkdtv said:


> No. Nothing you have described has anything to do with pixelization, which is form of picture breakup. If your picture isn't breaking up, attenuators are not going to make a difference.
> 
> Those sound like calibration issues to me. If anything, the output of the TivoHD should be better than the Motorola box.
> 
> 
> Is the TiVo on fixed 1080i or fixed 720p?
> 
> What type of cable are you using? HDMI or component?
> 
> Are you using the *same* input you used with the Motorola box (ex: HDMI input #2)? Make sure that is the case.
> 
> What is the make and model of your display?
> 
> Without more information, we can't diagnose the problem.


Thanks for the hints. To answer your questions:

I have it on Native right now.

I'm using the same input with the same cables (component video)

I have a 46" Sharp Aquos (1st generation, though I don't have the banding problems often associated with some of these sets)

I know pro calibration can be a pretty penny, so I'm hoping to DIY.


----------



## genaman

I have Tivo HD, and Fios. A few months ago I started noticing pix on non HD channels only. It has gotten to a point where I cannot watch many non HD Channels. HD Channels work fine most of the time. I have 3 Verizon Cable boxes with no problems. 

I called Tivo, and in the typical condesending style, they blame the Cable company. The Tivo diagnosits for the problem channels show a lot of fluctuation in the signal strength, but not in the db. 

I had Verizon over today. They spend 3 hours going over everything. They changed all the parts they could (splitters, et. al.). They tested the signal at every point in the house, and cam up with perfect readings. The only problem is the Tivo. They cannot find a Verizon problem. They really tried everything. Now I'm stuck with calling Tivo again and dealing with their obnoxious support. I am so fed up with Tivo (I have had 3 defective units in a year and a half). I can't wait for my contract to be up so I can get a regular Verizon cable box. 


Any suggestions?

Thanks


----------



## bkdtv

cuppingmaster said:


> Thanks for the hints. To answer your questions:
> 
> I have it on Native right now.
> 
> I'm using the same input with the same cables (component video)
> 
> I have a 46" Sharp Aquos (1st generation, though I don't have the banding problems often associated with some of these sets)


You might try a HDMI cable and see if it makes a difference. Monoprice.com sells quality HDMI cables for $4.

I would also suggest you find the AVS "owners thread" for your TV and use the recommended settings for that model and size. Click here, enter "+Sharp +owners" (without the quotes), and select "Search Titles only" from the drop down menu.


----------



## bkdtv

genaman said:


> I had Verizon over today. They spend 3 hours going over everything. They changed all the parts they could (splitters, et. al.). They tested the signal at every point in the house, and cam up with perfect readings. The only problem is the Tivo. They cannot find a Verizon problem. They really tried everything.


Did you read the *Known Issues post*? Quoting from that post:



> *Verizon FiOS signal typically requires attenuation*
> 
> _FiOS customers with 8-way splitters may need less attenuation, or none at all, because the 8-way splitter already provides significant attenuation for the signal._
> 
> The TivoHD is much more sensitive than Verizon's own boxes. The FiOS TV signal direct from the Verizon ONT is almost always too strong for a TiVo. A "perfect" signal level for the FiOS STB/DVR may be unacceptable for the TiVo. The result is a massive amount of Uncorrected errors (reported on System Information -> DVR Diagnostics screen) on some channels. These signal errors cause pixelization and audio dropouts.
> 
> In most -- *but not all* -- cases, the pixelization and dropouts on FiOS are eliminated by adding 10-20dB of attenuation. Attenuators screw onto the end of the coax and reduce the signal strength. By now, many Verizon installers know to attenuate the signal for the TiVo. The FiOS installer should attenuate the signal for the TiVo to -6dB, as reported by their *signal meter*. In some situations, more attenuation may be required -- FiOS installers will provide additional attenuators for free upon request.
> 
> If your FiOS installer is not aware of the TiVo's need for attenuation, it is important that you make them aware of it. Otherwise, they will not be able to fix the problem, because everything they do will be based on the assumption that the TiVo has the same signal requirements as their own Motorola box. If you do not ask for attenuation, the installer may replace all your cabling and equipment without changing the signal level.
> 
> If you want to add attenuation yourself:
> 
> 
> Order one of each (20dB, 16dB, 12dB, 10dB, 8dB, 6dB, 3dB) attenuator for a total of $8.19 from MCM Electronics.
> 
> Identify at least two channels with pixelization. [Pick the channels with the worst pixelization.]
> 
> Set each tuner to a different channel with pixelization. [To swap tuners, press the LiveTV button.]
> 
> Open Messages & Settings -> System Information -> DVR Diagnostics.
> 
> Note the RS Uncorrected errors on each channel. Your goal is to eliminate all (or most) of the RS Uncorrected Errors reported for each channel on the Messages & Settings -> System Information -> DVR Diagnostics screen. It is these errors that cause the pixelization.
> 
> Disconnect the coax from the CABLE input and screw on the -20dB attenuator. Reconnect the coax with the attenuator to the CABLE input.
> 
> If you can still tune the channels, and you've eliminated the RS Uncorrected errors, as reported by the DVR Diagnostics screen, then proceed to step #6.
> 
> If you lost the ability to tune one or more of those channels, then switch out the -20dB attenuator with the next lowest attenuator (ex: 20 -> 16 -> 12 -> 10 ->8).
> 
> Confirm that you are able to tune and receive all of the following channels without pixelization (or significant RS Uncorrected errors):
> 
> 550 USA-HD (135MHz)
> 572 ESPNews HD (195MHz)
> 590 Versus HD (237MHz)
> 780 Disney HD (327MHz)
> 618 FoxNews HD (375MHz)
> 053 FX (429MHz)
> 50_ FOX-HD (507-513MHz)
> 664 Food-HD (597MHz)
> 620 Discovery HD (669MHz)
> 551 TNT-HD (717MHz)
> 711 Palladia (807MHz)
> 
> If you are not able to tune all of these channels, then repeat step #5 with the next lowest attenuator.
> 
> If you find that a certain level of attenuation causes you to lose some channels (ex: 20dB), and the next level of attenuation (ex: 16dB) eliminates pixelization on most -- but not all -- channels, then you can connect two attenuators in line to obtain an intermediate level. For example, you could screw the 12dB and 6dB attenuators together to obtain 18dB attenuation.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> FiOS customers with a Motorola 1000v or Tellabs 611i ONT will also require a low-pass filter, regardless of the box they use. Without a low-pass filter, the MoCA on these ONTs will interfere with the A/V on the Verizon boxes and the TiVo. This is completely separate from the signal issue discussed above. _Low-pass filters are unnecessary for other ONTs._


----------



## Geekmeister

I had massive FIOS pixellation issues on several channels and installed signal attenuators a few months ago. Totally solved the problem.


----------



## genaman

Thanks for the advice. I had Verizon out to the house again today. We tried the attenuators, anywhere from -3 to -24. It does not solve the problem. They installed new CCs, and added a low pass filter. Same problem. Verizon has done all they could possibly do. Tivo will not take any responsibilty for this. Any other suggestions?


----------



## CJDOG

Just wanted to provide an ambiguous update, patch applied tonight. Now I'll keep a close eye out for any pixelation/macroblocking.


----------



## richsadams

CJDOG said:


> Just wanted to provide an ambiguous update, patch applied tonight. Now I'll keep a close eye out for any pixelation/macroblocking.


Thanks for keeping us posted. :up: Don't do anything to damage your NDA...but it sounds like good news may be in the offing!


----------



## jacksonian

I hope I'm not repeating, I searched this thread for SDV and didn't see anything relevant. 

I have 2 S3's with 2 S-cards each and a tuning adapter with TWC Greensboro. Things are mostly working fine, but I'm getting pixelation/stuttering of the video/audio intermittently, but ONLY on my SDV channels. Doesn't happen on the non-SDV channels that I can tell. Sometimes it can be almost constant, every 3-4 seconds and go on for 20+ minutes. Then other times not happen at all. Seems worst on BravoHD. 

Anyone else hear of this?


----------



## jlgore2

Jacksonian,

I'm in Greensboro and experiencing the same issue. I have a Tivo HD with 2 S-cards and tuning adapter. It appears that the problem is only on the SDV channels like you said. Channel 546 is so bad tonight that I'm ready to toss the thing in the garbage. I had TWC out here and they say the signal is fine so I'm not sure how to diagnose the problem. Let me know if you find a solution.

Thanks!


----------



## CJDOG

Don't waste your time troubleshooting this if you're sure your signal and cabling is sound. Things will get better in time; just a little more patience and I think you're problems will vanish...


----------



## richsadams

CJDOG said:


> Don't waste your time troubleshooting this if you're sure your signal and cabling is sound. Things will get better in time; just a little more patience and I think you're problems will vanish...


Thanks for the, um...update.


----------



## MisterWho

Hi guys.

I have dropped in here from time to time to attempt to pinpoint my troubles with pixelation on Comcast. I have a "hot" signal topping out at 100 at all times resulting in pixelation on a few channels. Attenuators never helped. Do we think any possible fix with cure us all or is it a FIOS specific solution?


----------



## jchas41

I'm having similar issues, although I am a TWC customer. About 3 or 4 weeks ago I started getting this pixelation and macro blocking intermittently. Today I called tivo and ran the diagnostics as things have gotten worse (mostly more annoying) over the last week or so. My signal strength was locked at 100, it didn't move at all. My SNR was locked at 37db. However, I did not get any of the RS connected errors. Tivo said my signal strength is too high and to call TWC. TWC was totally useless...Is this the same problem or is this a seperate issue because I'm not getting any RS connected errors?


----------



## bkdtv

If you are not seeing any RS Uncorrected errors, then that means the pixelization and blocking are part of the picture that TWC is sending.


----------



## jchas41

bkdtv said:


> If you are not seeing any RS Uncorrected errors, then that means the pixelization and blocking are part of the picture that TWC is sending.


So is it just too strong a signal from the line? Tivo seemed concerned that the signal strength never moved from 100 and that the SNR was at 37. I just need to know what I need TWC to correct. As much as I love my Tivo, between this issue and the constant Tuning Adapter issues I've been plagued with, I'm starting to wonder if this was worth it...


----------



## bkdtv

jchas41 said:


> So is it just too strong a signal from the line? Tivo seemed concerned that the signal strength never moved from 100 and that the SNR was at 37.


All A/V problems caused by signal issues (such as a "too strong" signal) are represented with RS Uncorrected errors.

If you don't see any RS Uncorrected errors, then your signal is perfectly fine. If you don't see any RS Uncorrected errors, then you see the signal *exactly as it is delivered by the cable company*. In other words, you are seeing the *same picture* you'd get with the cable company box.

I'm not familiar with every SDV implementation, but it is possible that TWC now has SDV systems that vary compression level (and thereby quality level) based on channel load within a given area. That would explain PQ degradation with SDV channels on the TiVo and cable company box during peak usage hours.

_Edit: The above post assumes that the TiVo actually reports signal errors for SDV channels on the DVR Diagnostics screen._


----------



## jchas41

That's what seems strange, because my other tv's (without tivo) work perfectly fine. No pixellation or distortion. If it was coming in from the line, wouldn't they all be affected? 

Although, maybe its related to the tuning adapter and SDV only...


----------



## bkdtv

jchas41 said:


> That's what seems strange, because my other tv's (without tivo) work perfectly fine. No pixellation or distortion. If it was coming in from the line, wouldn't they all be affected?
> 
> Although, maybe its related to the tuning adapter and SDV only...


I suppose it is possible that RS Uncorrected/Corrected error information is not displayed for SDV channels. If that is the case, you might have signal errors that cause PQ problems that don't show up on the DVR Diagnostics screen. I don't have personal experience with SDV in my home, so I can't say whether that is the case or not.

For any comparison, you'd have to compare the same digital channels. TWC doesn't use SDV for every channel. TWC does not use SDV on any local channels, for example.


----------



## jchas41

Yeah I'll have to do some testing tomorrow on non-SDV channels and see what comes up.


----------



## GmanTiVo

CJDOG said:


> Don't waste your time troubleshooting this if you're sure your signal and cabling is sound. Things will get better in time; just a little more patience and I think you're problems will vanish...




Com'on Tivo, hurry up and make it happen, Northern NJ needs help !!

All my FIOS HD channels are pixellating more than ever 

Thank you for the update,

Gman


----------



## genaman

Well, after spending countless hours with Verizon. and trying every suggestion on this board, and everything Verizon suggested (and tried at my house for 2 days), nothing solved the problem.

I called Tivo, and after a long battle, convinced them to send me a HD XL to replace my S3 (for $50). They still didn't think it was the unit though.

Set up the new TIVO yesterday...guess what? IT SOLVED THE PROBLEM...

Everything works great, and no attenuators. That is the problem with TIVO...THEY NEVER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN PRODUCT AND SOFTWARE.

They made me and Verizon waste countless hours when it was their product all along. That's why I hate this company, and that's why I don't think they will survive. Even though they have a product that is great in theory, their customer service and failure to acknowledge their own problems will be major reason for their downfall. TIVO--THERE IS STILL TIME TO CHANGE.

I'm happy it's working, but I will probably get rid of it in a year when my service runs out next year. Not worth the aggravation.


----------



## jacksonian

genaman said:


> Well, after spending countless hours with Verizon. and trying every suggestion on this board, and everything Verizon suggested (and tried at my house for 2 days), nothing solved the problem.
> 
> I called Tivo, and after a long battle, convinced them to send me a HD XL to replace my S3 (for $50). They still didn't think it was the unit though.
> 
> Set up the new TIVO yesterday...guess what? IT SOLVED THE PROBLEM...
> 
> Everything works great, and no attenuators. That is the problem with TIVO...THEY NEVER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN PRODUCT AND SOFTWARE.
> 
> They made me and Verizon waste countless hours when it was their product all along. That's why I hate this company, and that's why I don't think they will survive. Even though they have a product that is great in theory, their customer service and failure to acknowledge their own problems will be major reason for their downfall. TIVO--THERE IS STILL TIME TO CHANGE.
> 
> I'm happy it's working, but I will probably get rid of it in a year when my service runs out next year. Not worth the aggravation.


So I'm assuming you also went from 2 S-cards to 1-M card? Just trying to isolate possible causes. I'd upgrade my S3's to HD's if I knew it would fix the pixellation problem, but I don't think that's been consistent.


----------



## genaman

jacksonian said:


> So I'm assuming you also went from 2 S-cards to 1-M card? Just trying to isolate possible causes. I'd upgrade my S3's to HD's if I knew it would fix the pixellation problem, but I don't think that's been consistent.


Yes I went to 1 M card. I don't care what they say. In my experience, every issue I have ever had was solved by a replacement unit. This is my 4th in 2 yrs.

I spent $700 for my original unit, plus replacement costs, plus a 3 yr subscription. For that kind of investment, I expect more. Maybe these days consumers have been trained not to expect a quality product anymore. I still expect quality if I am willing to spend my money.


----------



## jacksonian

genaman said:


> Yes I went to 1 M card. I don't care what they say. In my experience, every issue I have ever had was solved by a replacement unit. This is my 4th in 2 yrs.
> 
> I spent $700 for my original unit, plus replacement costs, plus a 3 yr subscription. For that kind of investment, I expect more. Maybe these days consumers have been trained not to expect a quality product anymore. I still expect quality if I am willing to spend my money.


I'd be very frustrated like you if I'd had that kind of experience. I'm sorry you've had to endure all that. I haven't been trained to expect less, I've just had a different experience. And I do think that sometimes TiVo might get a bad rap (just as the cable companies do) because of the poor implementation of the technologies. I know my local TWC has bent over backwards to try to get mine working right, but it's just the delicate nature of the cable cards.

My comment about whether cards were replaced was just trying to narrow down potential solutions for my own setup, a faulty S3 vs. a cablecard problem.

I have 2 S3's and they both exhibit the pixellation with SDV channels. So I'm much more inclined to think it's a tuning adapter/cablecard/SDV/TiVo interaction problem than just a bad TiVo unit problem.


----------



## jchas41

Just wanted to follow up with my situation. TWC was here yesterday and tested the signal strength, etc., and everything was "perfect". They checked all connections and everything running into the house is new. They are telling me there is nothing else they can do. Tivo is insisting that my signal strength is too high. Honestly, at this point I'm getting really frustrated because both sides are saying it's not their fault and in the meantime I keep dealing with these pixelation issues. 

I bought the unit at Sears and got the extended warranty, I think my next step is to call them and tell them my unit is defective. This is crazy...


----------



## genaman

jchas41 said:


> Just wanted to follow up with my situation. TWC was here yesterday and tested the signal strength, etc., and everything was "perfect". They checked all connections and everything running into the house is new. They are telling me there is nothing else they can do. Tivo is insisting that my signal strength is too high. Honestly, at this point I'm getting really frustrated because both sides are saying it's not their fault and in the meantime I keep dealing with these pixelation issues.
> 
> I bought the unit at Sears and got the extended warranty, I think my next step is to call them and tell them my unit is defective. This is crazy...


If you get a new unit, your problem will be resolved. Don't let TIVO convince you that it's the signal....It's the TIVO.


----------



## jacksonian

genaman said:


> If you get a new unit, your problem will be resolved. Don't let TIVO convince you that it's the signal....It's the TIVO.


I realize that a new TiVo (and new cable cards) solved your problem, but I'd hesitate to make that blanket statement. This thread is 41 pages long. I believe if it was a simple matter of a defective box, we wouldn't be on page 41.


----------



## bkdtv

Before someone mentions it, Verizon had some equipment fail yesterday at VHO6 in Burlington, MA, which serves all FiOS customers in MA and RI. The result is pixelization on many channels.

This problem should be fixed soon, but until it is, you can expect to see pixelization on many channels if you live in that region, regardless of what box you have. This problem affects both the TiVo and Verizon&#8217;s own equipment in the same way.

FiOS customers in other regions are not affected by this problem.


----------



## genaman

jacksonian said:


> I realize that a new TiVo (and new cable cards) solved your problem, but I'd hesitate to make that blanket statement. This thread is 41 pages long. I believe if it was a simple matter of a defective box, we wouldn't be on page 41.


The cable card was not new. I was using 2 Scards, then 2 Mcards with my S3. I am using one of the same Mcards that I used on the defective S3. I am making a blanket statement based on my experience. Obviously I cannot speak for everyone on this board. However, I would be curious to know how many people who have had the same problem I had resolved it by replacing the unit. I can't be the only one.....contrary to what my mother tells me, I am just not that special .


----------



## MookieDoug

bkdtv said:


> Before someone mentions it, Verizon had some equipment fail yesterday at VHO6 in Burlington, MA, which serves all FiOS customers in MA and RI. The result is pixelization on many channels.
> 
> This problem should be fixed soon, but until it is, you can expect to see pixelization on many channels if you live in that region, regardless of what box you have. This problem affects both the TiVo and Verizons own equipment in the same way.
> 
> FiOS customers in other regions are not affected by this problem.


Thanks bkdtv. I started getting pixellation on NESN last night during the Sox game. Checked my levels/errors, nothing showed up on Corrected or Uncorrected. Assumed it wasn't a box/attenuator problem. Was able to switch to the HD channel and watch it fine anyway.


----------



## yizzung

Apologies in advance: I did not initially contribute to this thread because I really wasn't sure what my problem was (pixelation or reboots? dead WD expander or bad signal or bad cable cards or bad cable?) but, anyway, I suppose you can add my experiments to the discussion.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=428157

Long-story-short, it seems likely that "an event" happened upstream from me that simultaneously zapped my Comcast cable modem and my Tivo S3. Internet is back up and running after replacement of the cable modem but they didn't even look at the TV. TV picture went from bad to worse and now Tivo reboots every 20 minutes. I tried all the attenuator tricks, zapping cable cards, etc.

Comcast is coming again on Thursday to swap the cable cards in one last (probably futile) attempt. In parallel, I went ahead and ordered a refurb S3 from Tivo... If the Comcast tech believes that something on the Comcast side caused the problem on my box, then they said that they will take responsibility for the Tivo equipment failure. I'm not holding my breath but it sure seems odd that my S3 would die on the same day that my cable modem died.


----------



## gwsat

I am having a problem with video artifacts from my S3 that is so related to a single series, The Closer on TNT HD, that until recently I had blamed the problem on TNT. I have now done more experimenting and have concluded that my TiVo is to blame.

Whenever I record an episode of The Closer on my S3, bad artifacts show up whenever a full screen black background with the names of cast member superimposed on it in white is displayed. During the playing of the show itself, however, no such artifacts show up. I have now discovered two significant facts:

*
When I record an episode of The Closer on the SA 8300HD DVR, which I rent from Cox OKC, at the same time I record the same episode on the S3, there are no artifacts present in the 8300HD recording.

[*]When I watch an episode of The Closer on the S3 in real time, that is neither recorded or using the buffer, there is no artifacting. Nevertheless, if I back up through the buffer to the first black screen, which had been perfect when I watched it in real time, the version from the buffer contains artifacts, as does the recording itself.
*Obviously, this is an isolated problem than I can live with but my curiosity is piqued. Can anyone suggest what is going on with my S3 and what, if anything short of replacing it, I might do to resolve the issue?


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## pj1016

I've got a new problem that has me stumped...

When I started using my TivoHD with FIOS a few months ago, I had pixelation on the higher-frequency HD channels. I did the attenuation exercise, and everything was fine.

Lately I have been having pixelation on just the ESPN HD channels. SNR is 31, but the signal strength varies wildy (and almost constantly) with a max of about 65.

Any thoughts as to what is the problem?

Thanks,

pj


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## richsadams

gwsat said:


> [*]When I watch an episode of The Closer on the S3 in real time, that is neither recorded or using the buffer, there is no artifacting. Nevertheless, if I back up through the buffer to the first black screen, which had been perfect when I watched it in real time, the version from the buffer contains artifacts, as does the recording itself.[/B]
> [/LIST][/B]
> Obviously, this is an isolated problem than I can live with but my curiosity is piqued. Can anyone suggest what is going on with my S3 and what, if anything short of replacing it, I might do to resolve the issue?


How frustrating and it does sound very strange indeed. This only happens on that particular channel, on that particular show? Every time?  Do they rebroadcast the same show at a later time/day, etc? Or are there reruns of the same show? Curious if the problem appears then as well.

BTW, since TiVo is always buffering you're never actually watching live or "real time", you are always watching a buffered recording. Interesting that the problem doesn't appear unless you rewind though.

My instincts tell me that it's a hard drive issue and will get worse, but if the problem is isolated to that singular event each week it sounds more like an issue with that particular digital broadcast. Still seems very odd though.


----------



## richsadams

pj1016 said:


> I've got a new problem that has me stumped...
> 
> When I started using my TivoHD with FIOS a few months ago, I had pixelation on the higher-frequency HD channels. I did the attenuation exercise, and everything was fine.
> 
> Lately I have been having pixelation on just the ESPN HD channels. SNR is 31, but the signal strength varies wildy (and almost constantly) with a max of about 65.
> 
> Any thoughts as to what is the problem?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> pj


Might be worth having VZ take a look at your incoming signal. They tweak things (either locally or at the headend) now and then and IIRC others have seen things like that and the tech changed out an incoming cable that went south or found that another tech had done something in the neighborhood. It's possible that it's a cable card issue, but that usually manifests itself in all of the channels in that particular bandwidth. In any case, I'd have them check things out for you and see what they have to say.


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## jchas41

Well I think it's time I exchange my unit. I have tried everything to get rid of the random pixelating and screen freezing that have been affecting my unit for the last 5 weeks. After using the attenuator to get my signal from 100 to a reasonable 87, it is still pixelating and randomly freezing up. TWC came out and checked all my lines and signals and could not find anything out of whack. Tivo is thinking it may be the tuner inside the Tivo. Now I have to deal with this Sears claim service, what a headache...


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## blacksnakeball

I am one of those unfortunate FIOS hot signal guys. My new Tivo HD XL just doesn't seem to like the FIOS signal. I have been on this board and the Tivo forum and got some great advice on numerous occasions from bfdtv and others. I have tried a low pass filter and many different combinations of attenuators. I have tried the Radio Shack dial attenuator. But my signal issues have gotten worse over the past month.

I want to love Tivo. I was an early adopter with Replay TV and would still own that box if it could record HD. I spent years with a SA 8300 HD Explorer with Time Warner Cable in Manhattan but I could not pass up the speed and price of FIOS and hate TWC anyway. I started with the crappy Motos from Verizon and had overheating issues and hard drive failure within 2 weeks on my first box. I did some research here and fell in love with Tivo and bought the XL on April 25th.

From day one I have tried the signal fix and I have spent quite a bit of time with VZ at my home (they ave been pretty good about trying to fix on their end) I have also let Tivo know since day one that I am experiencing signal issues.

I met a guy on the Tivo boards who told me he was in a beta program and that a patch was imminent but could not tell me anymore. He said dont waste time with VZ coming to your apartment with any more attenuator crap- there will be a patch.

Based on that info and the totally random nature of my signal issues I have decided to try and wait it out as long as I can before my wife and daughter turn on me. The signal seems to go hot whenever we switch to a channel that is important to us. For me it is SNY in NYC -the Mets channel. I cannot watch a game anymore! My wife has issues with HBO and my daughter's kiddie shows seem to have to problem too. Sometimes the pixellation will be heavy for 10 minutes and then dissipate. Other times I can get a week straight of rock solid picture but lately it has been consistently bad. When it is bad the SNR fluctuates from 37-29 and the signal strength goes from 100-45. The RS uncorrected have been appearing more and more on channels we did not see them on before.

A few weeks into my trial month I called to complain to Tivo and they waived my monthly charge. A few weeks into my second month I called to complain but had to take it up to the next level of CS to get them to give me another month credit. I actually agreed to cancel my service because i was so upset with them. It is set to expire in 3 days.

Still I delay any decisions because I want to believe this can be fixed. I decided I had 3 options. Do nothing and hope that the beta fix comes in soon (yes i have registered for the beta and have begged Tivo to bring me in but their CS people are clueless) Secondly, I though maybe a new cable card from VZ might solve my problems and third I thought perhaps a new box from Tivo might work. Obviously there are people with Tivo and FIOS who are enjoying cable TV - I want to be THAT guy. Anyone think a new card or box might do the trick?

If I can't solve this problem soon I want to return the unit and get my MONEY back. I called J&R Music World where I purchased the box in April and they said any return after 30 days must go through manufacturer. I called Tivo today to find out their return and/or replacement policy and got into a huge pissing match. Basically there L2 tech support rep told me that since it is over 30 days I cannot return the box under any circumstances!!! He says it is a FIOS problem and I waited more than 30 days! He says that since by canceling my monthly service a few weeks ago that somehow this precludes me from pursuing a return or replacement. He says I cannot even get a refurb at cost to me. WTF???

I know I am getting bad info and I am livid. I would consider swapping out the box but I do not want a refurb and do not want to pay anything for shipping. The Tivo L2 guy says I cannot swap or even make a return because there is nothing wrong with the box and it is past 30 days. I asked him how he did not know it was a hard drive issue and even though all signs point to signal problem how can they rule out hardware issues. He said it did not matter I am stuck with this 2 month old box and can only sell it on ebay!

Of course now I just want to return this box and recoup my $5oo+ that I shelled out for it in April. Perhaps I will wait tilll there is a FIOS fix or perhaps I will never buy a Tivo again!

But how would any of you proceed? Are there some corporate people at Tivo that will listen to reason? I went from being a Tivo evangelical to a Tivo hater in one 20 minute phone call.

They have a known issue and yet do not inform consumers that they might experience signal issue with a major provider of HD content? I got the sense that they also know they have problems in Manhattan but of course cannot prove it. What about my 90 day warranty? All I know is the box doesn't work with my cable provider.

Thoughts? Sorry to ramble on but I am spitting blood


----------



## hmm52

I question your statement "they (Verizon) have been pretty good about trying to fix it on their end", though I don't doubt various techs have done much in your home to find a remedy. I've had FiOS TV since Nov. '06, with on again off again pixelation, sometimes horrific, starting July '07 and ending this time last year. First it was seen with a Toshiba cablecard TV, then worse with an S3 bought in January '08. I'm convinced that the source of the episodic signal/pixelation issues was always at my central office. I was told that once also by the supervisor of techs in my area. If everything is good across all frequencies from your CO, then you won't have a problem with your TiVo or other devices that have vulnerable tuners. If not, then attenuation may or not help. In my experience it was quite effective in addressing modest signal problems; a small amount of it is still in place as a prophylactic.

My guess is that cleaning things up at COs is expensive for Verizon so they resist bumping the matter there unless a significant number of subscribers are complaining about more than a few channels. The errors aren't just a matter of signal level. In the two horrific multi week episodes, it was 50% of all frequencies pixelating on the Toshiba. Might be a record. The first remedy in '07 came as a result of my complaints; all the rest happened in their own time. So how much patience do you have for possibly a rough ride with the TiVo-FiOS combination? I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a software solution. But you never know...


----------



## blacksnakeball

No i should be asking FIOS better questions too. I Will ask about the central office today. But VZ has issued me a credit when I had problems with their crappy box (not pixellation) and they have worked with me to fix my tivo. 

While this may be a CO problem it may also be a hard drive or hardware problem with my Tivo. i would suppose that there could be lots of reasons why I am getting pixellation. But for Tivo to reject out of hand, over the phone that there could be anything wrong with this box other than the FIOS signal and thus refuse to allow me to return a basically brand new $500+ piece of electronics under a 90 day warranty is borderline criminal.

Tivo should be required to post on their website and on their packaging that their boxes may not work with FIOS and that the buyer has 30 days to decide if they want to live with the results. 

They should also tell consumers where the FIOS signal problems are happening the most. 

I guess I want advice on how to return the unit. I plan on filing with BBB FTC if need be but if anyone knows a more direct line into Tivo where my voice will be heard please IM me.


----------



## bkdtv

For those that missed it, this was posted this today:



TiVoJerry said:


> Not all FIOS customers experience the same level of pixelation. That said, we have been testing a fix for some time that has provided extremely significant improvement for all testers. The SW release carrying this is coming very soon.


For those who are new to this forum, TivoJerry is a TiVo employee.


----------



## ciucca

hmm52 said:


> I question your statement "they (Verizon) have been pretty good about trying to fix it on their end", though I don't doubt various techs have done much in your home to find a remedy. I've had FiOS TV since Nov. '06, with on again off again pixelation, sometimes horrific, starting July '07 and ending this time last year. First it was seen with a Toshiba cablecard TV, then worse with an S3 bought in January '08. I'm convinced that the source of the episodic signal/pixelation issues was always at my central office. I was told that once also by the supervisor of techs in my area. If everything is good across all frequencies from your CO, then you won't have a problem with your TiVo or other devices that have vulnerable tuners. If not, then attenuation may or not help. In my experience it was quite effective in addressing modest signal problems; a small amount of it is still in place as a prophylactic.
> 
> My guess is that cleaning things up at COs is expensive for Verizon so they resist bumping the matter there unless a significant number of subscribers are complaining about more than a few channels. The errors aren't just a matter of signal level. In the two horrific multi week episodes, it was 50% of all frequencies pixelating on the Toshiba. Might be a record. The first remedy in '07 came as a result of my complaints; all the rest happened in their own time. So how much patience do you have for possibly a rough ride with the TiVo-FiOS combination? I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a software solution. But you never know...


<sigh> I am sorry to inform you and others on this board that the problem is not with Verizon's network. I'm sorry if a few of you do not want to believe this. To over simplify you will have a hard time convincing verizon tier 4 support that this issue is with the network signal, when the motorola equipment has no problems at all.

You can ban me if you want again, but the simple truth is that your only choice is to try the attenuators or sell the box on ebay.


----------



## ciucca

bkdtv said:


> For those that missed it, this was posted this today:
> 
> <deleted quote>
> 
> For those who are new to this forum, TivoJerry is a TiVo employee.


Interesting. I've been bashed and banned on this board for disagreeing with "exdishguy" who I'm sure has a PhD in telecommunications. I've been only trying to help people face reality. I think the moderator owes me an apology.


----------



## hmm52

ciucca said:


> <sigh> I am sorry to inform you and others on this board that the problem is not with Verizon's network. I'm sorry if a few of you do not want to believe this. To over simplify you will have a hard time convincing verizon tier 4 support that this issue is with the network signal, when the motorola equipment has no problems at all.
> 
> You can ban me if you want again, but the simple truth is that your only choice is to try the attenuators or sell the box on ebay.


My post was not based on random musing and I don't assign fault to TiVo or Verizon alone. The first incident of pixelation I referred to was clear. Multiple techs spent a load of time over two weeks in the house swapping out much and checking everything. The Big Boss, who supervised 4 other techs during the initial installation (I was a very early adopter) became involved. He checked line errors ahead of the new ONT and immediately said the problem was at street level or in the CO, repairs there made between 12:00am and 6:00am as a rule. The second morning later, all the channels were completely clear where 50% of them had been tiling horrifically through the previous weeks. The Big Boss called that afternoon to confirm that the problem was in fact at my CO. While it's true that my 3 Sony cablecard devices had minimal tiling throughout the period, Verizon's signal quality can clearly vary and create mayhem with a Tivo and some other brands. To its credit, my local CO has provided a great feed for a year now so I haven't seen any pixelation worth mentioning. I'm still using the original S3 bought 1/08 and AFAIK there weren't any software updates last year which addressed pixelation with off signals. To suggest that Verizon never has difficulty with their signal quality seems a bit of a stretch. In VHO8 it has from time to time affected many Motorola boxes as well, though not recently.


----------



## jchas41

bkdtv said:


> For those that missed it, this was posted this today:
> 
> For those who are new to this forum, TivoJerry is a TiVo employee.


I wonder if this will help in my situation. I am fed up, today I called Sears to start a claim on my Tivo and found out that because I got the Tivo on sale, for $199, they will only send me a gift card in that amount - they will not exchange it for the same model without me covering the other $100 ($299 regular, non-sale price). What a joke. Now it looks like my options are:
1. Use the claim with Sears, get my $200 gift card and say goodbye to Tivo (eating the remaining 7months on my 1 year contract).
2. RMA it to Tivo, paying the 49.99 plus shipping, and hope that the new machine doesn't do the same thing (which quite frankly seems like a big if). 
3. Wait it out, deal with the random pixelating and freezes and hope that the patch fixes my problem as well. Which to my knowledge is not as widespread with TWC as it is with Fios.

What to do...


----------



## ciucca

jchas41 said:


> I wonder if this will help in my situation. I am fed up, today I called Sears to start a claim on my Tivo and found out that because I got the Tivo on sale, for $199, they will only send me a gift card in that amount - they will not exchange it for the same model without me covering the other $100 ($299 regular, non-sale price). What a joke. Now it looks like my options are:
> 1. Use the claim with Sears, get my $200 gift card and say goodbye to Tivo (eating the remaining 7months on my 1 year contract).
> 2. RMA it to Tivo, paying the 49.99 plus shipping, and hope that the new machine doesn't do the same thing (which quite frankly seems like a big if).
> 3. Wait it out, deal with the random pixelating and freezes and hope that the patch fixes my problem as well. Which to my knowledge is not as widespread with TWC as it is with Fios.
> 
> What to do...


I think that the attenuators are worth a shot. I apologize if you already tried them. I think if you search there is a link to order online. I am using the attenuators for about a year and a 1/2, 16db and the pixelation is almost unnoticeable. IMO I would not hold my breath for a Tivo software fix. The guy who posted it may have good intentions but I am skeptical. I also know that most people who claim to have the pixelation problem( that is fixed by the attenuators) have found the issue come back after they made Verizon jump through hoops to try and fix it.

If your problem is mainly freezing then you may have a bad HD and will have to go the $49.99 route. I would try the attenuators first.


----------



## ciucca

hmm52 said:


> My post was not based on random musing and I don't assign fault to TiVo or Verizon alone. The first incident of pixelation I referred to was clear. Multiple techs spent a load of time over two weeks in the house swapping out much and checking everything. The Big Boss, who supervised 4 other techs during the initial installation (I was a very early adopter) became involved. He checked line errors ahead of the new ONT and immediately said the problem was at street level or in the CO, repairs there made between 12:00am and 6:00am as a rule. The second morning later, all the channels were completely clear where 50% of them had been tiling horrifically through the previous weeks. The Big Boss called that afternoon to confirm that the problem was in fact at my CO. While it's true that my 3 Sony cablecard devices had minimal tiling throughout the period, Verizon's signal quality can clearly vary and create mayhem with a Tivo and some other brands. To its credit, my local CO has provided a great feed for a year now so I haven't seen any pixelation worth mentioning. I'm still using the original S3 bought 1/08 and AFAIK there weren't any software updates last year which addressed pixelation with off signals. To suggest that Verizon never has difficulty with their signal quality seems a bit of a stretch. In VHO8 it has from time to time affected many Motorola boxes as well, though not recently.


I agree that you may have had a different problem than the "hot" signal causing TIVO pixelation. I was address the problem fixed by attenuation. I do not wish to argue but I know that Verizon network level technicians (these guys are college educated engineers) do not believe the network is an issue. I'm not disparaging verizon field techs, but most guys who come to your house and unfortunately their supervisors do not have the same level of expertise, so I will take what they say with a grain of salt. Most are converted lineman, and phone techs that are working from "cook" books.
Like I said I respect the field techs and do not wish to belittle their knowledge. Some are very good, but it is not the majority unfortunately.


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## jchas41

ciucca said:


> I think that the attenuators are worth a shot. I apologize if you already tried them. I think if you search there is a link to order online. I am using the attenuators for about a year and a 1/2 16db and the pixelation is almost unnoticeable. IMO I would not hold my breath for a Tivo software fix. The guy who posted it may have good intentions but I am skeptical. I also know that most people who claim to have the pixelation problem( that is fixed by the attenuators) have found the issue come back after they made Verizon jump through hoops to try and fix it.
> 
> If your problem is mainly freezing then you may have a bad HD and will have to go the $49.99 route. I would try the attenuators first.


I have tried the attenuators and got my signal from a "locked 100" down to about 87. Really no noticeable difference though, I was hopeful they would help. My main issue is the pixelating, it comes and goes but has become extremely annoying. The freezes have occured more frequently lately, but they are not "system freezes" - meaning that I can change the channel and everything is back to normal. I did however lose a recording over the weekend that froze midway through.

After spending an hour on the phone with Tivo last night they are thinking my signal strength is now ideal, and are leaning towards my problem being centered around a bad tuner. I just don't want to spend more money if that's not going to fix the problem. If their is a software update coming, maybe I should at least wait and see if that helps me at all. Very frustrating because everything was fine with my services up until about 6 weeks ago.


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## ciucca

jchas41 said:


> I have tried the attenuators and got my signal from a "locked 100" down to about 87. Really no noticeable difference though, I was hopeful they would help. My main issue is the pixelating, it comes and goes but has become extremely annoying. The freezes have occured more frequently lately, but they are not "system freezes" - meaning that I can change the channel and everything is back to normal. I did however lose a recording over the weekend that froze midway through.
> 
> After spending an hour on the phone with Tivo last night they are thinking my signal strength is now ideal, and are leaning towards my problem being centered around a bad tuner. I just don't want to spend more money if that's not going to fix the problem. If their is a software update coming, maybe I should at least wait and see if that helps me at all. Very frustrating because everything was fine with my services up until about 6 weeks ago.


One thing to keep in mind. If indeed you have a "bad tuner", which seems reasonable since you are experiencing symptoms beyond normal pixelation. A software update is not going to fix it. Good luck.


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## jchas41

Thanks! Yeah I'm trying to hold off a little longer on making a decision so that I can rule out a few more things before I fork over more cash. 
It very well may be the tuner, just wanna be as sure as I can.


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## blacksnakeball

Having tried numerous combinations of attenuators and low pass filters and still getting persistent pixellation with FIOS is it possible that I have a tuner problem too? I am past my 30 days for free return and I was waiting for the supposed softwasre fix and busy having VZ help me attenuate and low pass and swap out cable cards etc. 

when i tried to return the box outright they told me this is not a hardware issue so I was stuck. But a tuner sounds like hardware to me...unless we are talking about some sort of external digital device????


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## hmm52

Your TiVo has 2 tuners. If there's a significant difference in pixelation between them on the bad channels/frequencies, then I'd certainly suspect a tuner. If not, then I wouldn't. There could still be something extraneous in the cable or antenna feeds which affects one tuner more than the other, but VZ would have found that in a recent visit most likely.

With a software release addressing pixelation supposedly imminent, I would wait for that. What have you got to lose at this point?

The tuners are internal.


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## blacksnakeball

hmm52 said:


> Your TiVo has 2 tuners. If there's a significant difference in pixelation between them on the bad channels/frequencies, then I'd certainly suspect a tuner. If not, then I wouldn't. There could still be something extraneous in the cable or antenna feeds which affects one tuner more than the other, but VZ would have found that in a recent visit most likely.
> 
> With a software release addressing pixelation supposedly imminent, I would wait for that. What have you got to lose at this point?
> 
> The tuners are internal.


well if i wait another month and then the patch comes down and I still have pixelation I will be past my 90 day warranty return. I am leaning towards just returning my box and waiting for them to fix it but Tivo says I cannot do a return becasue I do not have a hardware problem. They say this is a FIOS issue!!!


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## ciucca

blacksnakeball said:


> well if i wait another month and then the patch comes down and I still have pixelation I will be past my 90 day warranty return. I am leaning towards just returning my box and waiting for them to fix it but Tivo says I cannot do a return becasue I do not have a hardware problem. They say this is a FIOS issue!!!


I think TIVO pretty much admitted the problem is theirs not FIOS. At least people who post on this board did. I guess the official TIVO position is to blame FIOS. What else can they do refund thousands of FIOS TIVO users boxes? IMO a shaddy business practice, and very much dishonest. But hey I can only count on one hand the number of companies that will stand behind their product, and bend over backwards to try to fix a problem they know is not theirs. Verizon, and ...


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## bkdtv

ciucca said:


> I think TIVO pretty much admitted the problem is theirs not FIOS. At least people who post on this board did. I guess the official TIVO position is to blame FIOS.


The issue is not TiVo-specific, as many older CableCard devices (and PC CableCard tuners) exhibit the same problem. Based on that fact, it seems obvious that the FiOS signal differs from the typical cable company signal in some way. That difference is *not* enough to cause problems for everyone; for those that have problems, attenuation resolves the problem for many, but not all.

Based on TiVoJerry's post, I suspect the next TiVo software will include new tuner firmware and/or driver to deal with the differences in the FiOS signal.


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## hmm52

ciucca said:


> I agree that you may have had a different problem than the "hot" signal causing TIVO pixelation. I was address the problem fixed by attenuation. I do not wish to argue but I know that Verizon network level technicians (these guys are college educated engineers) do not believe the network is an issue. I'm not disparaging verizon field techs, but most guys who come to your house and unfortunately their supervisors do not have the same level of expertise, so I will take what they say with a grain of salt. Most are converted lineman, and phone techs that are working from "cook" books.
> Like I said I respect the field techs and do not wish to belittle their knowledge. Some are very good, but it is not the majority unfortunately.


I'm going to try to find something we can agree on. I think it's so that Verizon's Motorola boxes have very rarely suffered from pixelation, anywhere. The same is true for the three Sony devices I've had since '95. So nearly all the time, VZ's signals are maintained well enough nationwide to provide good service to the vast majority of their subscribers. But there is a small subset who need or greatly benefit from tighter control over the signal, particularly line errors. This includes myself - the owner of a TiVo S3 and a Toshiba cablecard TV (a technological misadventure abandoned by its manufacturer before I bought it, so not one SW update since '06).

In the 31 months I've had FiOS TV, there were roughly 5 months where pixelation was common. With the 2 worst periods, both in '07, the Big Boss, and a top tech soon to become that for my area, read massive line errors on quite a few frequencies at the incoming fiber optic feed then referred the matter up the chain. Resolution came very soon and soon thereafter. I think variation in problems nationwide with TiVo and FiOS commonly have to do with the CO to house part of the network; the signals could be fine for Motorolas and Sonys but not for TiVo and some others. By the way, these two VZ techs had a very high level of expertise. Both came from FiOS Internet service and were trained in Virginia or Texas; the 2nd seemed to have knowledge, and interest, well beyond what he needed for his job - my impression. I've certainly encountered others that fit your comments though.

The four months last year where tiling was a routine visitor came to end shortly before Verizon launched their expanded HD lineup and did a channel realignment. I assume the reason for resolution then is that new QAMs were added at my central office and other upgrades and maintenance were done there similutaneously. I appreciate the clear 12 months.

I can't say for sure if the two horrific episodes in '07 were caused by something other than what is discussed here. I doubt it. I knew nothing about attenuation until I bought the S3 early in '08. But both the S3 and Toshiba did benefit from attenuators through similar but less severe periods last year. I don't believe it's just an issue of hot signal or cold signal for that matter. It's possible to have a clear screen with signal strength in the 50s or pegged at 100; also possible to have serious tiling regardless of attenuation and signal strength. I think it depends on the quantity and nature of the line errors (which also can be generated in house - poorly installed cable ends, staples through cables, etc.). I think attenuation can simply help less than robust tuners manage line errors, successfully or not depending on their severity.

I doubt you'll agree with everything I've written, except perhaps the first part. What else would explain the variation that I and others have seen, by region and over time?


----------



## hmm52

bkdtv said:


> The issue is not TiVo-specific, as many older CableCard devices (and PC CableCard tuners) exhibit the same problem. Based on that fact, it seems obvious that the FiOS signal differs from the typical cable company signal in some way. That difference is enough to cause problems for everyone; for those that have problems, attenuation resolves the problem for many, but not all.
> 
> Based on TiVoJerry's post, I suspect the next TiVo software will include new tuner firmware and/or driver to deal with the differences in the FiOS signal.


.... Many older cablecard devices but not all. The 3 Sonys I have, 1 TV & 2 DVRs, have been nearly immune to tiling; each built in 2005. The common denominator for cablecard units back then was that they were all pretty expensive for their group, with just one tuner. It's been my thought that TiVo shortchanged the tuner budget somewhat for their dual tuner DVRs. Thus the problems. What do you think? It wouldn't fit well with a software only solution however. I think it was Hitachi and Mitsubishi who also offered cablecard TVs years ago. I wonder how they've gotten along with FiOS.


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## ciucca

bkdtv said:


> The issue is not TiVo-specific, as many older CableCard devices (and PC CableCard tuners) exhibit the same problem. Based on that fact, it seems obvious that the FiOS signal differs from the typical cable company signal in some way. That difference is *not* enough to cause problems for everyone; for those that have problems, attenuation resolves the problem for many, but not all.
> 
> Based on TiVoJerry's post, I suspect the next TiVo software will include new tuner firmware and/or driver to deal with the differences in the FiOS signal.


I beg to differ. Motorola uses Tuners with hardware/firmware that work 99.9% of the time. TIVO uses cheaper commercial grade tuners that cost less per unit than the ones that Motorola uses. The TIVO ones run out of spec more often than the Motorola's. It doesn't matter if the signal coming in drifts from time to time, as long as it is within spec. All equipment needs to be design to work at all possible valid ranges. The CATV standard allows for signal variations within an acceptable range. Unless there is a malfunction with the ONT, or less probably some head end equipment Verizon's signal to your TV meets that 99.99% of the time.

I'm interested to find out how TIVO is going to fix this with updated drivers. I hope it doesn't make the problem worse.


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## ciucca

hmm52 said:


> I'm going to try to find something we can agree on. I think it's so that Verizon's Motorola boxes have very rarely suffered from pixelation, anywhere. The same is true for the three Sony devices I've had since '95. So nearly all the time, VZ's signals are maintained well enough nationwide to provide good service to the vast majority of their subscribers. But there is a small subset who need or greatly benefit from tighter control over the signal, particularly line errors. This includes myself - the owner of a TiVo S3 and a Toshiba cablecard TV (a technological misadventure abandoned by its manufacturer before I bought it, so not one SW update since '06).
> 
> In the 31 months I've had FiOS TV, there were roughly 5 months where pixelation was common. With the 2 worst periods, both in '07, the Big Boss, and a top tech soon to become that for my area, read massive line errors on quite a few frequencies at the incoming fiber optic feed then referred the matter up the chain. Resolution came very soon and soon thereafter. I think variation in problems nationwide with TiVo and FiOS commonly have to do with the CO to house part of the network; the signals could be fine for Motorolas and Sonys but not for TiVo and some others. By the way, these two VZ techs had a very high level of expertise. Both came from FiOS Internet service and were trained in Virginia or Texas; the 2nd seemed to have knowledge, and interest, well beyond what he needed for his job - my impression. I've certainly encountered others that fit your comments though.
> 
> The four months last year where tiling was a routine visitor came to end shortly before Verizon launched their expanded HD lineup and did a channel realignment. I assume the reason for resolution then is that new QAMs were added at my central office and other upgrades and maintenance were done there similutaneously. I appreciate the clear 12 months.
> 
> I can't say for sure if the two horrific episodes in '07 were caused by something other than what is discussed here. I doubt it. I knew nothing about attenuation until I bought the S3 early in '08. But both the S3 and Toshiba did benefit from attenuators through similar but less severe periods last year. I don't believe it's just an issue of hot signal or cold signal for that matter. It's possible to have a clear screen with signal strength in the 50s or pegged at 100; also possible to have serious tiling regardless of attenuation and signal strength. I think it depends on the quantity and nature of the line errors (which also can be generated in house - poorly installed cable ends, staples through cables, etc.). I think attenuation can simply help less than robust tuners manage line errors, successfully or not depending on their severity.
> 
> I doubt you'll agree with everything I've written, except perhaps the first part. What else would explain the variation that I and others have seen, by region and over time?


Could you possibly accept that the cause could be the TIVO's inability to operate at all valid db ranges for the incoming signal? Lets agree on one thing. All signals transmitted over cable, fiber, etc will have some frequency drift and some decoding errors at the receiving end. Most of the time there is not a problem. All CATV providers will have unfixable errors less than 1% of the time. Usually there is a threshold of errors that will eventually raise flags for the technicians to look at. This is why standards are agreed upon by open source vendors. So vendors that make receivers, TIVO, motorola, etc can agree that their equipment will handle signals and digital encoding within a certain range. This way they can run well known digital error correction algorithms to compensate for any errors, and the tuners can tune QAM frequencies within a range. The user will probably never notice any issues with the received signals when it is displayed on the TV. Of course if the signal etc falls out of range then it will show up as pixelation on the TV, or picture freezes.

Anyway to sum up. If you inject a signal into both a TIVO and Motorola DCT that have known errors that should be correctable and vary within spec, especially testing the border conditions, you can see how each box behaves. I've heard rumors that if this is done you will see the TIVO choke as you approach the borders much more than the DCT.

You cannot have a box that only works well at within a signal level window in a small range, you need to handle every possible variation within spec. In my mind TIVO fails this test, which makes it their problem.

I am curious how they are going to fix the problem with firmware changes, that appears to be hardware related. Of course they will never tell anyone.


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## MookieDoug

ciucca said:


> I beg to differ. Motorola uses Tuners with hardware/firmware that work 99.9% of the time. TIVO uses cheaper commercial grade tuners that cost less per unit than the ones that Motorola uses. The TIVO ones run out of spec more often than the Motorola's. It doesn't matter if the signal coming in drifts from time to time, as long as it is within spec. All equipment needs to be design to work at all possible valid ranges. The CATV standard allows for signal variations within an acceptable range. Unless there is a malfunction with the ONT, or less probably some head end equipment Verizon's signal to your TV meets that 99.99% of the time.
> 
> I'm interested to find out how TIVO is going to fix this with updated drivers. I hope it doesn't make the problem worse.


Do you have actual data to back up the 99.9% stats you cite? Also, do you have any actual data to show that FIOS subscribers who use Tivo are less than this 99.9% figure? (Also, you used 2 different figures: 99.9% and 99.99%. Not sure which one is correct, if either.)

Also, I just want to say, when I got FIOS in March I used their Motorola DVR boxes. Not only was their DVR interface so bad that I couldn't take it more than 2 days, but I had to get replacement DVR boxes TWICE because of pixellation, within a week of install. Both times the tech who rolled out blamed the box as being faulty. After 6 days my Tivo HD arrived in the mail and I was able to switch to cable cards, and I had minimal pixellation problems on 1 channel (which completely fixed with minimal attenuation.) But it was always better than the FIOS Motorola box.


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## webin

MookieDoug said:


> Do you have actual data to back up the 99.9% stats you cite? Also, do you have any actual data to show that FIOS subscribers who use Tivo are less than this 99.9% figure? (Also, you used 2 different figures: 99.9% and 99.99%. Not sure which one is correct, if either.)


He's making approximations that fit his point of view. If you look back through the archives (I don't remember which thread), Ciucca and Irhorer had a long, heated "discussion" about the Tivo vs Verizon topic. Irhorer used his technical knowledge of electrical engineering in the CATV industry, and Ciucca used his Verizon Employee tow-the-company-line experience. I won't hide my opinion here: Ciucca stubbornly refuses to believe Verizon could have any fault, and his bias stems directly from his employer. (And he'll correctly counter that TCF members tend to stubbornly reverse the blame).

I'd have to go looking, but I actually did produce some fairly good estimates of how many FiOS customers are tivo users, and how many tivo customers use FiOS.


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## blacksnakeball

Had to weigh in here.

First off Tivo corporate has made amends in ways that VZ never did when I had disputes with them. Basically I got a guarantee from Tivo that if the software patch doesn't resolve my FIOS signal issue then Tivo will allow me to swap out my box for a new one (not refurb) at no cost to me. Since I will shortly be out of the 90 day warranty I felt this was an important concession.

I had two Moto boxes running FIOS before I switched to Tivo. The first unit failed in less than a week. The other ran so hot that it would (IMHO) produce occasional annoying dropouts (not pixelation)

The Motos were fast and i liked the speedy menus and VOD was very responsive. But the buffer? No capacity? The way the remote could not snap back while jogging through a recorded or time-shifted show. Missing recordings due to crappy guide data. 

As much as I have been through the wringer with my signal issues on my Tivo, I would never, ever go back to the moto from VZ. Instead I would try and get my old SA 8300 HD from Time Warner.


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## ciucca

webin said:


> He's making approximations that fit his point of view. If you look back through the archives (I don't remember which thread), Ciucca and Irhorer had a long, heated "discussion" about the Tivo vs Verizon topic. Irhorer used his technical knowledge of electrical engineering in the CATV industry, and Ciucca used his Verizon Employee tow-the-company-line experience. I won't hide my opinion here: Ciucca stubbornly refuses to believe Verizon could have any fault, and his bias stems directly from his employer. (And he'll correctly counter that TCF members tend to stubbornly reverse the blame).
> 
> I'd have to go looking, but I actually did produce some fairly good estimates of how many FiOS customers are tivo users, and how many tivo customers use FiOS.


Really?! I highly doubt that the majority of responders have any idea of electrical engineering in the CATV industry. That made my day! I had a good laugh. I realize the bulk of the frequent posters on this board (and you know who you are) have a vested interest in the success of TIVO. The facts are the facts, I'm just reporting them. This board has the classic "emperor has no clothes" syndrome. I actually wish the TIVO was more of a solid product, because it actually has some benefits that the DCT does not.  I now have to turn in my red polo shirt! Finally I will reiterate: Verizon will bend over backwards to fix any customer issue that they have control over.

Verizon has some issues, but at least they do not try to cover up their product deficiencies. I also would like to say that the vast majority of FIOS customers are satisfied, this board is made up of a small percentage of customers who cannot accept that their TIVO may be the cause of their dissatisfaction.

One more thing. From your posts I have read over the years I believe you to be a TIVO employee. so there!


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## ciucca

MookieDoug said:


> Do you have actual data to back up the 99.9% stats you cite? Also, do you have any actual data to show that FIOS subscribers who use Tivo are less than this 99.9% figure? (Also, you used 2 different figures: 99.9% and 99.99%. Not sure which one is correct, if either.)
> 
> Also, I just want to say, when I got FIOS in March I used their Motorola DVR boxes. Not only was their DVR interface so bad that I couldn't take it more than 2 days, but I had to get replacement DVR boxes TWICE because of pixellation, within a week of install. Both times the tech who rolled out blamed the box as being faulty. After 6 days my Tivo HD arrived in the mail and I was able to switch to cable cards, and I had minimal pixellation problems on 1 channel (which completely fixed with minimal attenuation.) But it was always better than the FIOS Motorola box.


Yes I do but I cannot give them to you without revealing my true identity Commissioner Gordon!


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## MookieDoug

ciucca said:


> I also would like to say that the vast majority of FIOS customers are satisfied, this board is made up of a small percentage of customers who cannot accept that their TIVO may be the cause of their dissatisfaction.


I would also like to say that from what I've seen the vast majority of TIVO customers are satisfied as well. And the vast majority of TIVO customers who use FIOS are satisfied as well. Compared to the volume of people in this country who use Tivo with FIOS, this forum represents a tiny fraction.

The issue here is not whether Tivo is causing dissatisfaction or if FIOS is causing it. FIOS built a Fiber Optic product to carry phone, internet and TV services to the customer. When they designed/built this product I have no doubt they did their testing for TV based on their own FIOS receivers and DVR boxes. Tivo has built a DVR that, by definition, is required to work across MULTIPLE cable platforms, including FIOS. I have no doubt when Tivo deisnged/built their product they tested it on as many cable systems/providers as possible. I also have no doubt that Tivo could not build a product that satisfied every single cable platform in the country. (It would not only have to satisfy every cable provider, but also every local cable lines, as we know the strength of signal varies from town to town.)

The issue lies not in who's at fault; it lies in the fact that we have 2 separate products -- products are NOT trying to accomplish the same thing, I might add -- that are trying to work together. An analogy (maybe not a good one, but I work in a kitchen) would be someone who buys a Kitchenaid mixer, and then buys another company's attachments to use with that mixer. They will most likely work; but they could also fail sooner, as those attachments were built for all mixers, not just Kitchenaid. If that attachment didn't work and you called Kitchenaid, they'd probably say, "um, our product is fine -- don't use that other company's attachment." If you called the other company, they would try to fix the problem, but might also say, "our product works fine with Kitchenaid as well as all mixers. If you're having a problem with it, we'll replace it, but if that one doesn't work, it's probably Kitchenaid." In many ways using Tivo with FIOS is trying to fit a octoganal peg into a round hole. It'll fit, it just might not be perfect.

The perfect solution would be for FIOS and Tivo to work together so one could purchase a combined FIOS/Tivo box without the cable cards, the way that you used to be able to purchase a DirecTV/Tivo box. But FIOS wants the DVR money to themselves, even tho FIOS has the crappiest DVR I've ever seen in my life. So we beat on, knowing we don't have a perfect setup, hoping that sooner or later FIOS and Tivo can begin to work better together to help everyone out.

And no, I do not work for Tivo, I don't own stock in Tivo, and I have ZERO vested interest in Tivo, beyond the fact that they have the best DVR product on the market and I would be depressed if they ever went away.


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## ciucca

MookieDoug said:


> I would also like to say that from what I've seen the vast majority of TIVO customers are satisfied as well. And the vast majority of TIVO customers who use FIOS are satisfied as well. Compared to the volume of people in this country who use Tivo with FIOS, this forum represents a tiny fraction.
> 
> The issue here is not whether Tivo is causing dissatisfaction or if FIOS is causing it. FIOS built a Fiber Optic product to carry phone, internet and TV services to the customer. When they designed/built this product I have no doubt they did their testing for TV based on their own FIOS receivers and DVR boxes. Tivo has built a DVR that, by definition, is required to work across MULTIPLE cable platforms, including FIOS. I have no doubt when Tivo deisnged/built their product they tested it on as many cable systems/providers as possible. I also have no doubt that Tivo could not build a product that satisfied every single cable platform in the country. (It would not only have to satisfy every cable provider, but also every local cable lines, as we know the strength of signal varies from town to town.)
> 
> The perfect solution would be for FIOS and Tivo to work together so one could purchase a combined FIOS/Tivo box without the cable cards, the way that you used to be able to purchase a DirecTV/Tivo box. But FIOS wants the DVR money to themselves, even tho FIOS has the crappiest DVR I've ever seen in my life. So we beat on, knowing we don't have a perfect setup, hoping that sooner or later FIOS and Tivo can begin to work better together to help everyone out.
> 
> And no, I do not work for Tivo, I don't own stock in Tivo, and I have ZERO vested interest in Tivo, beyond the fact that they have the best DVR product on the market and I would be depressed if they ever went away.


Two points.

1) This is why standards have been agreed upon and open source equipment is designed to meet that specification. From your paragraph above you are saying that TIVO does not meet the standard.

I do not wish to go into it in detaIl, but do a google search and you will find all the information you need in regards to CATV QAM transmission standards and receiver standards. Each manufacturer agrees to meet these standards.

2) Yes the perfect solution would be for FIOS and TIVO to work together to fix the TIVO, but lets face reality. Verizon does not have an interest in TIVOs success or failure. All they can do is tell their engineers that their equipment is failing to meet the industry specifications (did you do your google search?). Thats all Verizon should do. Are you implying that Verizon should change their QAM broadcast equipment to work with TIVO even if the TIVO cannot handle in spec broadcasts??? You must be kidding. TIVO needs to figure out how to test their product to work in the full range of acceptable signal levels.

I don't understand this attitude where Verizon should fix TIVO's issue. They a re a third party vendor that is peddling equipment that is clearly out of spec. Perhaps if TIVO pays them they will help.

Anyway I guess TIVO execs got the message since they claim to have fixed their issue.


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## webin

ciucca said:


> 1) This is why standards have been agreed upon and open source equipment is designed to meet that specification. From your paragraph above you are saying that TIVO does not meet the standard.
> 
> I do not wish to go into it in detaIl, but do a google search and you will find all the information you need in regards to CATV QAM transmission standards and receiver standards. Each manufacturer agrees to meet these standards.
> 
> I don't understand this attitude where Verizon should fix TIVO's issue. They are a third party vendor that is peddling equipment that is clearly out of spec. Perhaps if TIVO pays them they will help.


Tivo can just as rightly claim that FiOS signals, while possibly staying within standards, push the envelope so much that third-party equipment, such as Tivos and cable card TVs, have difficulty working with the signal. The simple example for this is that FiOS is the ONLY service that Tivos (and those old CC TVs) are choking on. TWC and Comcast pixillate occasionally, too, but we don't have enough data to know for sure what the issue is there. If a piece of equipment works satisfactorily with everything EXCEPT one service, you can bet there's something about that service that's causing problems.

Can you, with 100% certainty, prove the FiOS signal arriving at my home in Hillsboro Oregon meets the agreed upon standards? Just because Verizon has "agreed" to them, doesn't mean they actually meet those standards. It's like you've completely forgotten everything Irhorer told us about how the signal interacts with the tuner sensitivity. I'm not going waste my time finding and linking that discussion, because I doubt it matters to you.


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## richsadams

Hmmm...let's see

Comcast corp - 24.1 Million subscribers
Time Warner Cable - 13 Million subscribers
Cox Communications - 5.3 Million subscribers
Charter Communications - 5 Million subscribers
Cablevision - 3.1 Million Subscribers
Brighthouse Networks - 2.3 Million subscribers
Verizon FIOS - 1.4 Million subscribers
Mediacom - 1.3 Million subscribers
And so on...(source: NCTA)

Millions of TiVo's work flawlessly with dozens of cableco's. It may be a "standards" issue, but I'm just saying one of these is not like the others.


----------



## richsadams

Read TiVoJerry's post regarding new software upgrade here.



TiVoJerry said:


> We just started rolling 11.0d to a random set of HD DVRs in the field last night. The main intent of this SW is to reduce pixelation for FiOS customers. Results have been extremely favorable. The changes made may even improve video quality with other providers as well.
> 
> This begins the CS Ramp evaluation of the SW and what's effect on our call centers might be. I review all cases logged against these units for a couple of weeks before we deem it acceptible to send to all HD DVRs. Barring any unforeseen need to hold it back, it goes out to the entire population very quickly, so there is no need to for a priority list.
> 
> Please refrain from PMing me asking to receive the SW sooner. My inbox (and my "plate" in general) is already getting pretty full and I doubt I could handle the volume. Try to be patient just a little longer.
> 
> Thank you.


----------



## ciucca

richsadams said:


> Read TiVoJerry's post regarding new software upgrade here.


I truly hope the 11.0d software fixes the pixelation issue TIVO is having.

I think that this whole thing has been handled badly by the TIVO people to begin with. Verizon has been bashed on this board unfairly. Standards have been created for just this situation. If you are a third party vendor trying to sell equipment to an open source network, you cannot verify it works with only one type of signal (cable companies), and then complain when it does not work with a *NEW* provider that has a slightly different QAM transmission, but within specifications.

Now this is my speculation, but I suspect since the TIVOHD came before FIOS, they developed and design it to work with existing cable companies at the time. Then along comes FIOS, which is slightly different and causes their original TIVO tuner software to have issues, and for reasons I'm sure had to do with money they refused to admit the problem. I have a suspicion why they are now, after how many years, fixing the issue which could have been done a long time ago.

For the TIVO insiders perhaps you can get TIVO Jerry or one of the TIVO engineers who frequent this board  to post what this software fix is? I hope it is not the same problem the DTIVO had about 5 years ago with a tuner parameter that was incorrectly set that caused one of the 2 tuners to oscillate from 100 to 0. That also was fixed with attenuation, using a radio shack splitter. I'm sure some people here remember that.


----------



## richsadams

ciucca said:


> Now this is my speculation, but I suspect since the TIVOHD came before FIOS, they developed and design it to work with existing cable companies at the time. Then along comes FIOS, which is slightly different and causes their original TIVO tuner software to have issues <snip>


I am almost certain that your speculation is correct...something we probably can all agree on. How the remedy was handled by either party (and why) will probably be fodder for "conversation" forever because we'll probably never know the answer.

Bottom line is that we have concrete evidence that TiVo is doing something about it. :up:


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

ciucca said:


> I think that this whole thing has been handled badly by the TIVO people to begin with.


Definitely. There have been complaints here about FiOS since 2007 if not earlier. It's now 2nd half of 2009. Clearly TiVo isn't populated with the brightest bulbs in the room if it has taken them this long to begin to roll out a fix.


----------



## bkdtv

My report on the new update:



bkdtv said:


> I have FiOS and received the 11.0d update yesterday.
> 
> I was previously able to eliminate 99+% of all pixelization with 16+dB attenuation. Without this attenuation, most channels exhibited massive pixelization and some channels would not reliably tune.
> 
> I did not notice any problems post-install. To test potential improvement with this release, I removed my attenuation this afternoon. To my surprise, I do not see any pixelization on any channel. I checked all my favorite channels for RS Uncorrected errors, and saw none except for occasional errors in the first second or so after tuning a channel. After the first second, there were no further RS Uncorrected errors. Channels that previously required some attenuation to tune...can now be tuned without attenuation and without pixelization.
> 
> *Verdict:* At least for me, the 11.0d update eliminates the need for attenuation. Pixelization is nowhere to be seen. :up::up::up:


----------



## exdishguy

ciucca said:


> I truly hope the 11.0d software fixes the pixelation issue TIVO is having.
> 
> I think that this whole thing has been handled badly by the TIVO people to begin with. Verizon has been bashed on this board unfairly. Standards have been created for just this situation. If you are a third party vendor trying to sell equipment to an open source network, you cannot verify it works with only one type of signal (cable companies), and then complain when it does not work with a *NEW* provider that has a slightly different QAM transmission, but within specifications.
> 
> Now this is my speculation, but I suspect since the TIVOHD came before FIOS, they developed and design it to work with existing cable companies at the time. Then along comes FIOS, which is slightly different and causes their original TIVO tuner software to have issues, and for reasons I'm sure had to do with money they refused to admit the problem. I have a suspicion why they are now, after how many years, fixing the issue which could have been done a long time ago.
> 
> For the TIVO insiders perhaps you can get TIVO Jerry or one of the TIVO engineers who frequent this board  to post what this software fix is? I hope it is not the same problem the DTIVO had about 5 years ago with a tuner parameter that was incorrectly set that caused one of the 2 tuners to oscillate from 100 to 0. That also was fixed with attenuation, using a radio shack splitter. I'm sure some people here remember that.


The problem is (or was, because the new firmware fixes the issue) jitter on some frequencies, in some homes, from some COs, etc. and Tivo's inability to deal with the jitter due to some firmware tweaks needed to compensate for crappy signals/frequencies.

Clearly Tivo could improve their firmware to deal with the issue - and they did. On the other hand, Verizon has done nothing but throw attenuators out like friggin' gumdrops and have employee trolls like you post trash about Tivo rather than attempting to fix the issue.

So if I were you (and thank god I'm not), I wouldn't get too cocky about Tivo's fix. To all that can see more clearly than someone like you that works for Verizon, there were two parties contributing to the problem and only one stepped up and fixed it. To me, Tivo just made a friend for life. Verizon on the other hand, can only hope that their price continues to be attractive because it is the only reason I am "loyal" to them - otherwise, I'd be gone in a NY minute.

Now for the rest of us non-Verizon-troll-types, you should be happy to hear that bkdtv is spot on. The new 11.0d firmware completely fixes the issue!!!! Now we can enjoy watching FiOS TV rather than having to talk to Verizon employees like ciucca, which in turn should mean less stress for us all! 

THANKS TO TIVO FOR FIXING THIS ISSUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## webin

exdishguy said:


> ...and have employee trolls like you post trash about Tivo.


I actually think he's being a troll pro bono.


----------



## ciucca

exdishguy said:


> The problem is (or was, because the new firmware fixes the issue) jitter on some frequencies, in some homes, from some COs, etc. and Tivo's inability to deal with the jitter due to some firmware tweaks needed to compensate for crappy signals/frequencies.
> 
> Clearly Tivo could improve their firmware to deal with the issue - and they did. On the other hand, Verizon has done nothing but throw attenuators out like friggin' gumdrops and have employee trolls like you post trash about Tivo rather than attempting to fix the issue.
> 
> So if I were you (and thank god I'm not), I wouldn't get too cocky about Tivo's fix. To all that can see more clearly than someone like you that works for Verizon, there were two parties contributing to the problem and only one stepped up and fixed it. To me, Tivo just made a friend for life. Verizon on the other hand, can only hope that their price continues to be attractive because it is the only reason I am "loyal" to them - otherwise, I'd be gone in a NY minute.
> 
> Now for the rest of us non-Verizon-troll-types, you should be happy to hear that bkdtv is spot on. The new 11.0d firmware completely fixes the issue!!!! Now we can enjoy watching FiOS TV rather than having to talk to Verizon employees like ciucca, which in turn should mean less stress for us all!
> 
> THANKS TO TIVO FOR FIXING THIS ISSUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Is there something wrong with you! Don't you have another satellite dish to install? All of your posts prove to me that you have no clue what you are talking about. Your just another Dish network installer with 6 months training who now thinks he is an engineering authority.

Yes I agree thank God TIVO finally fixed their problem, after it was pointed out to them.


----------



## exdishguy

ciucca said:


> Is there something wrong with you! Don't you have another satellite dish to install? All of your posts prove to me that you have no clue what you are talking about. Your just another Dish network installer with 6 months training who now thinks he is an engineering authority.
> 
> Yes I agree thank God TIVO finally fixed their problem, after it was pointed out to them.


I'm not a dish installer nor have I ever been - its a forum handle you twit, not a job description. I actually work in semiconductors and have worked with video as well as mixed signal. While I am not an engineer nor do I profess to be one, the empirical evidence simply does not substantiate your claims that Tivo's hardware tuners cannot be fixed by firmware and are inadequate; nor does your silly claims that Verizon has no culpability in this matter mean anything because the mere fact that not ALL Tivo installations were experiencing pixelation issues (to and including some of the folks working at the FSC!) should be proof enough for anyone with half a brain that Tivo wasn't entirely to blame.

Now the question as to how well Tivo handled things certainly has merit. But to me, actions speak louder than words and Tivo came through - Verizon did not. Period. Either way, the issue is fixed - much to your disappointment I'm sure since you need to find a new forum to troll.

Now will some moderator please banish this Verizon troll?


----------



## ciucca

exdishguy said:


> I'm not a dish installer nor have I ever been - its a forum handle you twit, not a job description. I actually work in semiconductors and have worked with video as well as mixed signal. While I am not an engineer nor do I profess to be one, the empirical evidence simply does not substantiate your claims that Tivo's hardware tuners cannot be fixed by firmware and are inadequate; nor does your silly claims that Verizon has no culpability in this matter mean anything because the mere fact that not ALL Tivo installations were experiencing pixelation issues (to and including some of the folks working at the FSC!) should be proof enough for anyone with half a brain that Tivo wasn't entirely to blame.
> 
> Now the question as to how well Tivo handled things certainly has merit. But to me, actions speak louder than words and Tivo came through - Verizon did not. Period. Either way, the issue is fixed - much to your disappointment I'm sure since you need to find a new forum to troll.
> 
> Now will some moderator please banish this Verizon troll?


The truth is the truth, sorry you cannot handle it. Another insult? I surprised you are not banned you have nothing interesting to add to the conversation.


----------



## Mike Lang

Both of you stop the bickering and attacks or you will both be removed.


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## webin

Mike Lang said:


> Both of you stop the bickering and attacks or you will both be removed.


I would consider sacrificing exdishguy as a martyr if it let us get rid of chewbacca


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## richsadams

webin said:


> I would consider sacrificing exdishguy as a martyr if it let us get rid of chewbacca


----------



## bradenmcg

Jumping in here because this is where it belongs...

I'm getting a lot of blocking on Time Warner, I'm in an SDV area and have Tuning Adapters. Seems to only happen on SDV channels but we haven't been keeping track that closely yet.

When I have the issues, I have ZERO RS errors, corrected or uncorrected. On the diagnostics for my Scientific Atlanta M-Card, I do see a "Decrypt Failed time" at the same approximate time as the macroblocking.

Don't think it's signal as the RS errors aren't there. I'm actually in touch with TivoJerry and we're going to work on it, I'll post results here if there are any to post.


----------



## jchas41

bradenmcg said:


> Jumping in here because this is where it belongs...
> 
> I'm getting a lot of blocking on Time Warner, I'm in an SDV area and have Tuning Adapters. Seems to only happen on SDV channels but we haven't been keeping track that closely yet.
> 
> When I have the issues, I have ZERO RS errors, corrected or uncorrected. On the diagnostics for my Scientific Atlanta M-Card, I do see a "Decrypt Failed time" at the same approximate time as the macroblocking.
> 
> Don't think it's signal as the RS errors aren't there. I'm actually in touch with TivoJerry and we're going to work on it, I'll post results here if there are any to post.


Sounds similiar to what I've been experiencing. Let me know, I'm hoping the patch helps me.
Although, I did immediately check tivo diagnostics after the last bit of pixelating and saw some RS errors there, about 1000 or so. We'll see I guess.


----------



## dlfl

bradenmcg said:


> Jumping in here because this is where it belongs...
> 
> I'm getting a lot of blocking on Time Warner, I'm in an SDV area and have Tuning Adapters. Seems to only happen on SDV channels but we haven't been keeping track that closely yet.
> 
> When I have the issues, I have ZERO RS errors, corrected or uncorrected. On the diagnostics for my Scientific Atlanta M-Card, I do see a "Decrypt Failed time" at the same approximate time as the macroblocking.
> 
> Don't think it's signal as the RS errors aren't there. I'm actually in touch with TivoJerry and we're going to work on it, I'll post results here if there are any to post.


I'm in a similar situation with TWC, Dayton Ohio, although maybe not as severe as your description.

*Question:* Where do you find the "Decrypt Failed time" ? I have an HD with two Scientific Atlanta s-cards.


----------



## plateau10

I wonder if this will have a positive effect on my problem, which I actually only noticed for the first time last night.

I've only had the box for exactly one week, so I haven't put in a lot of hours of watching, yet. I noticed glitches on three different recordings last night. They were short, lasting about one second. Loss of audio and some macroblocking or, don't know what to call it: a sort-of trailing effect during a scene change.

Anyway, my setup is OTA-only with the RCA ANT1500 (little white box-shaped thing that is hanging on the wall behind the TV). I live about 3-4 miles from pretty much all the stations I receive. I was playing around a bit with the diagnostics this morning and noticed SNR for a few channels at around 31 or so, so maybe under certain circumstances it gets too strong, and that may be what I was seeing in my recordings. Unfortunately, while I'm a recent TiVoHD owner, I'm a long-time (almost 10 years) TiVo user, so I timeshift 100&#37; of what I watch. Makes debugging this a bit harder.

As it turns out while I was testing this morning I noticed pending restart, so I went ahead and restarted and was able to play for a few minutes with the D update. I unfortunately did see about 900 uncorrected almost immediately on one channel, but it seemed to stay there. I'll need to look at this some more to test different channels and look at both tuners.


----------



## John C

The new firmware loaded last night. There is a promising boost in error performance on my system. On a particularly bad channel there was constant accumulation of uncorrected errors (1000's per minute). This morning, none in two hours. 

I will leave the live TV set to that channel over the weekend and see if it sticks. 

So far there seems to be a good benefit here.


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## dlfl

John C said:


> The new firmware loaded last night. There is a promising boost in error performance on my system. On a particularly bad channel there was constant accumulation of uncorrected errors (1000's per minute). This morning, none in two hours.
> 
> I will leave the live TV set to that channel over the weekend and see if it sticks.
> 
> So far there seems to be a good benefit here.


What is your signal source and region and do you have a tuning adapter?


----------



## John C

Sorry for the late reply. I have been traveling. 

No Tuning adapter. I am in Massachusetts. FiOS is the source.

The pixelation issue is, for all intents and purposes, gone. There are occasional corrected errors (about 1 or 2 an hour). 

Seems like a fix (knock wood). It was really annoying. 

John


----------



## jchas41

I had hoped this would help with my problems (TWC, Tuning Adapter), it did not. Still having major pixelation problems. Some programs are worse than others. I have noticed that since 11.0d my RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors have increased quite a lot. Since I can't seem to figure out why this is happening I think my only choice now is to pay the 50 bucks and have tivo send me a new machine...hopefully that helps.


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## alleyooptroop

hopefully this is the right thread to get info on my problem. my setup: 52" sony xbr9, tivo hd, verizon fios service all connected via hdmi. since day one i've had macroblocking on fast action scenes and scenes where there's drastic changes in light (like an explosion at night). i had the verizon hd dvr for a couple weeks before the tivo and don't remember having this picture issue. 

when verizon first came out to install the cable card, the tech installed an attenuator that brought it down to 31db and no uncorrected errors but the problem persisted. even after the 11.0d firmware upgrade i did not see any improvement. i removed the attenuator - same. i've had my tivo switched out with a new one - same. 

is this just a product of a digital signal on a large tv? would i have the same issue with directv or any other provider?


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## brianlaudio

Hi,
I'm new to this forum so please forgive me if this is a repeat on this topic -- I gave up part way through the 45+ screens of postings trying to digest the info to see if anyone had the same exact issue I have.

Back in March, I bought an HDTV and a TiVo HD box. Comcast installed a dual-stream CableCard and all was well until a couple weeks ago. At that time we started experiencing pixelation problems that have grown worse. Now they get so bad as to render some channels unviewable along with dropouts of audio. However this comes and goes. For example, yesterday afternoon there was almost none of this on any channel I checked; last night it was really bad; this morning at 7am it was moderately bad, but by 8am had only minor glitches.

Background data: 
- we have only one TV in the house connected to cable (old analog TV is relegated to games)
- one splitter at cable entrance to house -- other branch goes to cablemodem
- from Day 1, signal strength as read by TIVO 'gauge' has been upper 40s to upper 50s
- signal level remains at these levels even at worst of pixelation problems
- I didn't realize until today that the diag display that gives SNR did it per channel, but any time I've looked it seems to have been sitting at 30-32 dB
- I have briefly connected the cable directly to the TV, bypassing the TiVo. That limits the channels I can compare, but those that I could -might- have been better w/o TiVo. Can't say for sure. However, this is immaterial in practice as I intend to use the TiVo as the tuner for the system
- TiVo output goes to Onkyo A/V receiver and from there to the TV, all by HDMI. These all seem solid with other sources.

Called out the Comcast tech; he arrived yesterday:
- (oddly) started at TV and cable modem to look at signal strength and said they were low. (not sure why he didn't start at service entrance to house...) He replaced connectors, couplers and (lone) splitter in path to TV, commenting that since nothing has been done to the house since it was built 22+ years ago, guy installing CableCard should have "checked it out and cleaned things up" back in March.
- signal strength meter on TIVO has now gained a good 10 points on all channels -- range of mid-50s to mid-60s after tweeks
- finally reaching the service entrance to house (RG11 cable) his test box still found a 'weak signal' and 'lots of <unspecified> errors". Ditto when he went across the street to the on-the-ground distribution amp and splitter for our cul de sac (all buried utilities)
- He put in a service order for a tech to check the distribution amp and whatever else might be a problem upstream
- curiously, last Thursday some other dude in a Comcast truck was poking at the distribution amp for reasons unknown to me and I didn't have time to stop and ask him (I figured someone else was having the same problem as I was and had called in a complaint)
- I'm an Electrical Engineer with 'a number of years' of experience, so I took some of the guy's comments with a grain of salt - "our splitter is better than your splitter" when he replaced it, and "our connector is better than your connector", etc.

So, here is where I need advice. I'll give my conclusions; please let me know if I'm on the right track or not.

- since I had several months w/o this problem, I find it hard to attribute it to a "TiVo tuner problem" as has been discussed on this thread. I can't imagine that the tuner just 'got weak'
- that said, this is monsoon in Tucson, so along with heat we've had thunderstorms and some power glitches. However, this problem hasn't been correlated in time to storms -- i.e., haven't had any storms since a good week before the problems started, nor would that explain the worsening of the problem
- I should take more detailed signal strength, SNR and error rate data by channel, both during pixelation episodes and when viewing is good
- bottom line: I think the problems still point to a Comcast signal issue.

thanks!
brian

p.s., can anyone tell me what the desired signal level on the incoming signal should be as measured on the Comcast guy's diagnostic box -- I think it read in units of dBmV.


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## bkdtv

If your signal is in the 40s to 50s with a SNR of 30dB, you are going to have problems.

You want a signal at least in the mid-60s and 70s, and a signal in the 80s would be much better. With my local Comcast, the signal is in the mid-90s with a SNR of 36-37dB.

You want Comcast's own signal meter read -6dB or higher. The box only measures at certain frequencies, so if they report a low but "acceptable" signal, the signal on other frequencies could still be too weak to achieve the desired picture.

You might consider a cable amplifier, although that isn't a solution in every case. If some form of RF interference is causing your problem, then an amplifier may not help.


----------



## dlfl

The TiVo support pages actually have some useful things to say about signal strength and quality issues.

Here is an (abridged) excerpt:


> The following table shows the minimum signal strength that the DVR Diagnostics screen must display before you can see video when CableCARDs are installed. A signal strength of 85-99 is ideal.
> 
> Minimum signal strength:
> 50 for QAM 256 modulation
> 65 for QAM 64 modulation
> 
> Recommended signal strength: 80-99
> 
> If the signal strength is in the recommended range and you see poor-quality video: go to Checking the signal quality.
> If the signal strength is in the recommended range and you see no video: contact TiVo Customer Support
> If the signal strength is below the recommended range, and you see poor-quality video or no video at all:
> Remove any splitters in the cable line. If the signal strength does not improve, or if there were no splitters in the cable line, contact your cable provider to arrange for an appointment to have a technician test your cable line. You can try adding a signal amplifier (available at most electronics stores) to the cable line to boost the signal strength, but it is better to have your cable provider run diagnostics and correct the conditions that are causing the poor signal. If you choose to use an amplifier, make sure you check the signal quality first, to ensure that you won't be amplifying a poor-quality signal.


From my own very limited experience and many posts on this forum, I would say weak signal is a likely candidate for your problems. The DVR Diagnostics page in your TiVo will tell you which QAM modulation you have -- I think 256 is more common.

The TiVo support pages have some other pages of interest that you can search for. Also searching this forum will help. I would be inclined to pressure your cable co to increase the signal strength but if you decide to try an amplifier, search the forum as users have reported experience with several models.

I have no idea why this started happening when it wasn't before, although maybe moisture from the rain? BTW does your splitter have a matched load on the unused output tap(s)? This is important. The cable technicians should be able to provide that -- not an expensive item.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum.

EDIT: This just says pretty much what *bkdtv*'s post said. We cross-posted.


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## brianlaudio

Thanks, gentlemen, for the info. I, too, think my problem is low/sick signal. I'm still puzzled about why things worked so well for several months with equally low signal. Perhaps error rate has gone up. Will need to collect more (irrefutable) data.


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## HLLee

Hi, I'm new to this board. Just found out about it searching around the web. I picked up my HD Tivo during the recent father's day promotion and have been overall very happy with it. 

Recently, I noticed that on HD recordings there are annoying white streaks on dark objects such as black suits or night scenes. These are not the typical pixelations caused by poor reception but white parallel lines. I have an over-the-air antenna as the source to the Tivo. The problem does not show up all of the time, just once in awhile. Has anyone on this board come across this problem? I did a quick search for white streaks on the forum but wasn't able to find anything. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions.


----------



## turn_it_down!

I've reached the end of my rope with Tivo. I'm about to throw in the towel...

I have two Tivos hooked to Cablevision cable (an S3 and a Tivo HD). The S3 is not connected to a TA yet (the first one I got was DOA) and the Tivo HD has a TA. When I first installed the adapter, everything was lovely. Cablevision just installed new wire from my apartment to the building switch room and I was getting 95-100 signal strength on most channels and everything was coming in as clear as a bell on both Tivos. 
After about 3 weeks of bliss, the Tivo HD showed total pixelation (full screen) ON ALL CHANNELS. It is unusable and unwatchable. I've check the Error Count on the diagnostics page and it pretty much stays at zero. I tried adding attenuators to the system, as well as disconnecting the TA from the mix. In both cases the pixelation remains. From reading the diagnostics page, it seems like the Tivo can't lock in on a channel. BTW - through all of this, the S3 has continued to work flawlessly. I've had the S3 about 4 years, and the TivoHD about 2.

I'm about to just sell out and get the Cablevision DVR. This is too much effort for something that is still basically just TV. I'm frustrated, and I'm sick of people pointing the finger at the other guy instead of trying to help me.

Does anyone have any ideas on what the problem could be?


----------



## rsharpe

Here we go .... searched the forums but I can not find anyone with my same issues circumstances.

I have a series 3 HD and currently am on the Cablevision system in the 07480 West Milford, NJ area. I had bought my Tivo back in 07 but never had a chance to install it. It was purchased to use on a projector which is still sitting in my basement in the unfinished movie room. Anyhow the CRT in the family room finally blew up so we went out and purchased a 50in Pany plasma and out came the Tivo from the box. I have a series 2 which works pretty good.

Now for the fun. They come out to install the NDS cable card and everything appears to be working. After they leave I take a look at 736 -ESPNHD which is freezing and macroblocking every couple of seconds. I flip up to the next channel 737 - TNTHD and see that it is totally macroblocking 100&#37; of the time.

I call Cablevision who comes out with a new CC (after coming out 2 times previous checking the signal) and low and behold nothing changes. After the manager+tech from Cablevision sit on the phone for 1.5 hours working on this with Tivo they decide this Tivo is bad. Mind you the tech attenuated the signal on these 2 channels up and down with no change. Tivo was nice enough to charge me $85 to replace the tivo even though it was never hooked up till now. Apparently the warranty starts when you buy the thing at the store. Total BS in my opinion but its better then the $249 they initially quoted me.

Hooray the new Tivo arrives. I hook it up and before I can activate the CC notice 736 is working. However I did not watch it for more then 10-15 seconds. After activating the CC I look and everything is the same as it was before macroblocking fun.

I again call Cablevision and Tivo. They of course each blame each other. The Tivo service rep went as far as to say Cablevision is purposely sabotaging the CC so I use their DVR. I decided that I could not take him very serious after going through the CC menu diagnostics he had told me one of the tables was wrong. He claimed it was wrong because the time which is in GMT was off by 4 hours. Since EST is -5+1DLS and he did not seem to grasp this I felt it was time to move on.

Meanwhile (many visits in between) Cablevision comes out and has the balls to say, "I know you don't want to hear this but; Your tivo is not compatible with our hardware". I honestly think these techs really believe this he seemed very sincere. I responded by asking him why do other Tivos work with cablevision in other regions? He said they have had 15 more calls after my initial call with the same problems on 736+737 and Tivo refuses to fix it.

Cablevision is again scheduled to come out tomorrow though I am not sure what will be accomplished.

I must also mention that no matter what channel is being watched. I get random drop outs of sound. At least 1 per hour usually more. Sometimes the video freezes when that happens.

Here is what I pulled off the Tivo.

736 - ESPN HD
QAM 256 369000 KHZ
Signal Strength 93-100
SNR 36db

737 - TNT HD
QAM 256 465000 KHZ
Signal Strength 93-100
SNR 35db

Now for the kicker .... if I attenuate those channels at all I lose this channel.

786 G4
QAM 256 759000KHZ
Signal Strength 45
SNR 29

Why and how can I have such a strong signal on the first 2 and so weak on the 3rd?

If anyone has any ideas at all I would appreciate some feedback.


----------



## dlfl

The previous 2 posts illustrate what I think is the biggest problem with TiVo. If you have A/V glitches after the Cable Co. does what it can do and TiVo does what it can do (including exchanging your box), you are stuck in the middle. If you can't live with it, your only practical choice is to sell the TiVo.

BTW, I think there are many people living with borderline acceptable performance, including myself -- see this thread for example. This is particularly rancorous to those who have had analog TiVo's that were relatively trouble-free.

The digital video architecture used with TiVo's (CABLECards and Tuning Adapters) is more complex than the analog video system (e.g., S2 TiVos) and judging from posts in this forum (and again my experience) is more trouble prone. And it is very difficult to diagnose what causes the tough problems, i.e., those that aren't fixed by exchanging the TiVo or several cable co. truck rolls.

The cable companies are not very motivated to make TiVo's work because a TiVo customer will make them less money (no VOD). CABLECards and Tuning Adapters are forced on them by law and only a tiny percentage of their customers use them. TiVo simply doesn't have the resources to do the sophisticated on-site diagnosis required to resolve the tough cases. Fact is these cases can be caused either by TiVo tuner and software deficiencies or by cable company equipment problems, or a combination of both.

Solutions will have to involve a mechanism that allows cable providers to profit from TiVo installations so they have an incentive to take complete ownership of making TiVo's work well. Also, diagnosis of tough problems needs attention, which may involve more costs for technicians and equipment and also may require TiVo enhancements. Ultimately the consumer pays the cost of this, of course.


----------



## rsharpe

rsharpe said:


> Here we go .... searched the forums but I can not find anyone with my same issues circumstances.
> 
> I have a series 3 HD and currently am on the Cablevision system in the 07480 West Milford, NJ area. I had bought my Tivo back in 07 but never had a chance to install it. It was purchased to use on a projector which is still sitting in my basement in the unfinished movie room. Anyhow the CRT in the family room finally blew up so we went out and purchased a 50in Pany plasma and out came the Tivo from the box. I have a series 2 which works pretty good.
> 
> Now for the fun. They come out to install the NDS cable card and everything appears to be working. After they leave I take a look at 736 -ESPNHD which is freezing and macroblocking every couple of seconds. I flip up to the next channel 737 - TNTHD and see that it is totally macroblocking 100% of the time.
> 
> I call Cablevision who comes out with a new CC (after coming out 2 times previous checking the signal) and low and behold nothing changes. After the manager+tech from Cablevision sit on the phone for 1.5 hours working on this with Tivo they decide this Tivo is bad. Mind you the tech attenuated the signal on these 2 channels up and down with no change. Tivo was nice enough to charge me $85 to replace the tivo even though it was never hooked up till now. Apparently the warranty starts when you buy the thing at the store. Total BS in my opinion but its better then the $249 they initially quoted me.
> 
> Hooray the new Tivo arrives. I hook it up and before I can activate the CC notice 736 is working. However I did not watch it for more then 10-15 seconds. After activating the CC I look and everything is the same as it was before macroblocking fun.
> 
> I again call Cablevision and Tivo. They of course each blame each other. The Tivo service rep went as far as to say Cablevision is purposely sabotaging the CC so I use their DVR. I decided that I could not take him very serious after going through the CC menu diagnostics he had told me one of the tables was wrong. He claimed it was wrong because the time which is in GMT was off by 4 hours. Since EST is -5+1DLS and he did not seem to grasp this I felt it was time to move on.
> 
> Meanwhile (many visits in between) Cablevision comes out and has the balls to say, "I know you don't want to hear this but; Your tivo is not compatible with our hardware". I honestly think these techs really believe this he seemed very sincere. I responded by asking him why do other Tivos work with cablevision in other regions? He said they have had 15 more calls after my initial call with the same problems on 736+737 and Tivo refuses to fix it.
> 
> Cablevision is again scheduled to come out tomorrow though I am not sure what will be accomplished.
> 
> I must also mention that no matter what channel is being watched. I get random drop outs of sound. At least 1 per hour usually more. Sometimes the video freezes when that happens.
> 
> Here is what I pulled off the Tivo.
> 
> 736 - ESPN HD
> QAM 256 369000 KHZ
> Signal Strength 93-100
> SNR 36db
> 
> 737 - TNT HD
> QAM 256 465000 KHZ
> Signal Strength 93-100
> SNR 35db
> 
> Now for the kicker .... if I attenuate those channels at all I lose this channel.
> 
> 786 G4
> QAM 256 759000KHZ
> Signal Strength 45
> SNR 29
> 
> Why and how can I have such a strong signal on the first 2 and so weak on the 3rd?
> 
> If anyone has any ideas at all I would appreciate some feedback.


Adding to this the tech who was extremely ignorant of anything tivo related and not even up on the channel switch in the 700s to the 800s for premium channels came today. Needless to say he did not want to be there and did nothing to help. However I noted something very interesting. When the CC was unbound to try and reauth for the 800s I was still getting 736 and 737. Now the interesting part is that the macroblocking was completely gone. I mean those 2 channels worked perfectly though my 800s were still out. After they reauth the CC the 800s were still out and the 736-737 were still good. The tech leaves and just for the hell of it I reboot the tivo. Guess what now I have my 800s but my 736-737 are right back to macroblocking.

Any ideas?


----------



## turn_it_down!

Quick Update:
I figured since I was getting pixelation on all channels (when using Cablevision), I decided to try my ailing Tivo HD with an antenna. Well it turns out the pixelation problem still exist with OTA channels. I'm guessing that means there's a problem with the Tivo tuner, not my cable signal. 
Seeing that I'm at least a year past warranty, now I'm faced with the decision of ditching Tivo altogether or upping another $299 for to go on this merry-go-round. I'll keep you posted...


----------



## bkdtv

turn_it_down! said:


> Quick Update:
> I figured since I was getting pixelation on all channels (when using Cablevision), I decided to try my ailing Tivo HD with an antenna. Well it turns out the pixelation problem still exist with OTA channels. I'm guessing that means there's a problem with the Tivo tuner, not my cable signal.
> Seeing that I'm at least a year past warranty, now I'm faced with the decision of ditching Tivo altogether or upping another $299 for to go on this merry-go-round. I'll keep you posted...


When you see this pixelization problem with OTA, are there massive RS Uncorrected errors on your DVR Diagnostics screen under Messages & Settings -> System Information? If you see pixelization without *millions* of RS Uncorrected errors, then you've almost certainly got a defective/dying hard drive. In that case, you might spend $50-$100 to replace it using the instructions in the *Drive Upgrade FAQ*.


----------



## dlfl

bkdtv said:


> ......... If you see pixelization without *millions* of RS Uncorrected errors, then you've almost certainly got a defective/dying hard drive.......


I'm seeing occasional pixelation and other A/V glitches with zero or very little uncorrected error counts. The frequency of glitches does depend on the type of channel. Cable versions of OTA: almost never, and SDV are worse than non-SDV. The glitch rate averaged over all channels is probably 1 or 2 per hour, with the worst case maybe 20 per hour.

The fact that glitch rate varies with channel type this way seems to eliminate the hard drive as the cause -- do you agree? (Also my THD is only 3 mos. old, although that doesn't guarantee the hard drive is OK.)

So now my big question: Do glitches with zero error counts absolutely (or let's say with 99% probability) indicate the glitches were *encoded into the signal*, rather than introduced by a problem with the distribution system (e.g., cabling or connections)? In other words, do you believe these error counts really mean what they are supposed to?


----------



## bkdtv

dlfl said:


> So now my big question: Do glitches with zero error counts absolutely (or let's say with 99% probability) indicate the glitches were *encoded into the signal*, rather than introduced by a problem with the distribution system (e.g., cabling or connections)? In other words, do you believe these error counts really mean what they are supposed to?


On off-air channels, all glitches caused to cabling, connections, and reception show up as RS Uncorrected errors. If there aren't errors, the glitches on off-air channels are always attributable to (a) the encoding on the channel, or (b) a failing hard drive.

On non-SDV digital cable channels, all glitches caused to cabling and connections show up as RS Uncorrected errors. If there aren't errors, the glitches on non-SDV channels are always attributable to (a) the encoding on the channel, (b) a failing hard drive, or (c) a faulty CableCard. People do seem to report far more issues, percentage wise, with NDS CableCards than those from Motorola and Scientific Atlanta.

SDV introduces another factor into the equation, for which no useful diagnostic exists. With SDV, you can get glitches without any RS Uncorrected errors and without any issue with your hard drive. It's not clear to me who is at fault for this, nor is it clear whether cabling/connections are a contributing factor. No providers offer SDV in my area, so I have no way to test with the TiVo.


----------



## turn_it_down!

@bddtv:
So you think it could be the hard drive? As I mentioned in the earlier post, my RS error count was consistently less than 4 (cable and OTA) and I am seeing massive pixelation (all the time, every channel). Sometimes I could get a channel to lock in if I ran the Signal Strength meter, but it didn't work all the time.

Wouldn't a bum hard drive effect how the Tivo performs on the Home screen, menus and such?
Is there anyway to confirm it's the HD?

Thanks for the feedback...


----------



## turn_it_down!

Update:
The unit performance has gotten worse. Now I have no picture and no audio during playback of stored shows. Even shows transferred from the living room S3 don't have sound. I'm think it is the hard drive and have ordered an new one to replace it.
Hope it works...


----------



## richsadams

turn_it_down! said:


> Update:
> The unit performance has gotten worse. Now I have no picture and no audio during playback of stored shows. Even shows transferred from the living room S3 don't have sound. I'm think it is the hard drive and have ordered an new one to replace it.
> Hope it works...


Unfortunately it does indeed sound like a hard drive going south. The new one should resolve things. Since the HDD is the one thing that most often fails it'll be almost like having a brand new TiVo! :up:


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

richsadams said:


> Unfortunately it does indeed sound like a hard drive going south.


Unfortunately some marketing pukes at TiVo have apparently prevented the software engineers from *displaying a F***ing error message* when the hard drive has a read error.

*IDIOTS!*

99% of the time a hard drive is failing, it will *report* that it had an error. So why, why, why does TiVo apparently ignore those errors and leave people guessing as to what is happening.

I'll say it again: *IDIOTS!*

99% of the "flaky TiVo" threads here would be completely unnecessary if TiVo had some decent error reporting.

And once again: *IDIOTS!*


----------



## turn_it_down!

Final Update:
I installed a new hard drive over the holiday weekend and, as all the sages here said, the pixelation problems went away. I still need to get my cablecard re-authorized (can do over the phone with Cablevision, thankfully), but the channels I could get showed up with no pixelation at all. Would be nice if Tivo put in some error notification, but now I'm just happy to have a working box again.

Thanks to all for you help and advice...


----------



## richsadams

turn_it_down! said:


> Final Update:
> I installed a new hard drive over the holiday weekend and, as all the sages here said, the pixelation problems went away.


Glad to hear things are back to normal. Agreed, an error log (or access to one) would be helpful indeed but I suspect a majority of TiVo owner's treat it like a toaster and wouldn't have a clue how to use it. But for we "enthusiasts" it would certainly be a welcome addition.

Enjoy!


----------



## dwgsp

Wouldn't the Kick Start Codes that are related to the hard drive be useful to diagnose disk problems?

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-codes.php

/Don


----------



## richsadams

dwgsp said:


> Wouldn't the Kick Start Codes that are related to the hard drive be useful to diagnose disk problems?
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-codes.php
> 
> /Don


Kickstarts might be helpful at times. TiVo's diagnostic/repair programs (KS57 & KS58) are useful now and then if there is minor data corruption. But they are designed to fix boot/partition issues when TiVo doesn't want to start up or act normally. If it's gotten to the point of image problems, it's usually a much larger issue than TiVo can resolve by itself. KS54 is an MFS disk diagnostic (not written by TiVo) that may be able to tell users if the internal or external drives are having problems but it's far from fool-proof and gives false positives on a regular basis (reporting drives to be functional when they actually aren't). About the only way to truly diagnose a disk is to run an in-depth diagnostic like WD's Lifeguard. The downside is that if the recommended lengthy read/write/read test is run it wipes all of the hard drive's data.

So for the folks experiencing more severe image issues, running the Kickstarts probably won't hurt, but probably won't help either.

BTW, here's a link to a little more comprehensive and up-to-date list of Kickstart codes and what they do:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5643823#post5643823


----------



## bpaulsen

I'm not sure if I should use this thread or create a new one. In the past few weeks, I've started getting pixelation problems on some channels but not others. From what I can tell, it seems like it happens on high bitrate HD channels (e.g ESPNHD, OTA primetime network channels). Any low bitrate channels (such as Disney, NIKHD) record without difficulty. 

When watching these channels, the TiVo is fine for several minutes and then it starts pixellating and then it loses the signal completely. If I change channels and return back, the picture is fine again (for a few minutes)

This happens on both the cable connection and the OTA connection. 

I don't think it is a failing hard drive because I can see all of the low bitrate shows, all of my old recordings play fine, and the kickstart 54 didn't find anything. 

Any ideas?


----------



## dlfl

bpaulsen said:


> I'm not sure if I should use this thread or create a new one. In the past few weeks, I've started getting pixelation problems on some channels but not others. From what I can tell, it seems like it happens on high bitrate HD channels (e.g ESPNHD, OTA primetime network channels). Any low bitrate channels (such as Disney, NIKHD) record without difficulty.
> 
> When watching these channels, the TiVo is fine for several minutes and then it starts pixellating and then it loses the signal completely. If I change channels and return back, the picture is fine again (for a few minutes)
> 
> This happens on both the cable connection and the OTA connection.
> 
> I don't think it is a failing hard drive because I can see all of the low bitrate shows, all of my old recordings play fine, and the kickstart 54 didn't find anything.
> 
> Any ideas?


Hard drive problems tend to show up first on HD channels because of the higher bit rates involved.

As stated in the post just before yours, KS54 sometimes fails to find problems.


----------



## richsadams

bpaulsen said:


> I'm not sure if I should use this thread or create a new one. In the past few weeks, I've started getting pixelation problems on some channels but not others. From what I can tell, it seems like it happens on high bitrate HD channels (e.g ESPNHD, OTA primetime network channels). Any low bitrate channels (such as Disney, NIKHD) record without difficulty.
> 
> When watching these channels, the TiVo is fine for several minutes and then it starts pixellating and then it loses the signal completely. If I change channels and return back, the picture is fine again (for a few minutes)
> 
> This happens on both the cable connection and the OTA connection.
> 
> I don't think it is a failing hard drive because I can see all of the low bitrate shows, all of my old recordings play fine, and the kickstart 54 didn't find anything.
> 
> Any ideas?


Agree with dlfl...odds are it's a hard drive beginning to fail. It sounds as if the I/O error correction cannot keep up. You could try running TiVo's built-in diagnostics and repair programs, Kickstart 57 and/or 58 to see if that helps.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5643823#post5643823


----------



## mcmnky

Howdy,

I haven't seen much pixelation while watching live TV, but I starting getting partial recordings about 3 weeks ago (Sep 27 to coincide with start of the new network seasons. joy!) and wonder if it's an issue related to the pixelation other folks have seen.

I have an HD TiVo, WD external storage, no mods, 2 comcast cable cards. The unit is about 18 months old.

So I starting getting partial recordings and it's now to the point where over half of scheduled records do not complete. I called TiVo support. The nice lady walked me through the DVR diagnostics and checking the signal strength.

The signal was pegged at 100 (with SNR 35 dB and no corrected/uncorrected errors). The diagnosis was too much signal. (Go figure.)

So I put in a 6 dB attenuator, which brings the signal down to 81. (TiVo lady said 80 to 99 is best.)

Anyway, after a day with the attenuation, still having the same issue. It's happened when recording on one or both tuners, only on HD channels so far. 

I've managed to catch the issue in the act. When watching one tuner while recording on the other, I'll notice some pixelation and TiVo will stop responding to commands for 15 to 30 seconds. (Yellow LED shows unit gets the signal from the remote, but it doesn't do anything.)

So then the show I'm watching continues; red LED stays on and the listing in 'Now Playing' both indicate the recording has continued. But if I switch to the tuner being recorded the screen is all black, and the recording only has up to that point.

I did a code 57 kickstart--unit rebooted and started normally without any error messages.

I've been thinking of getting a 1 TB drive and ditching the external storage, but if the partial recordings are not a hard drive issue, I'd like to get a fix before putting money in to the unit.

So what do you folks think? Should I try more attenuation? Just go for the new hard drive?

I'm going to follow up with TiVo support and let them know their advice didn't help. I'll let you know if they have any other suggestions.


----------



## richsadams

mcmnky said:


> Howdy,
> 
> I haven't seen much pixelation while watching live TV, but I starting getting partial recordings about 3 weeks ago (Sep 27 to coincide with start of the new network seasons. joy!) and wonder if it's an issue related to the pixelation other folks have seen. <snip>


 Sorry to hear about your troubles with your TiVo HD. If the attenuation didn't help, go ahead and remove it.

The symptoms you listed are often caused by something happening with the external drive. The biggest issue has been the eSATA cable. The first thing to do is to ensure that the eSATA cable is securely attached to both TiVo and the external drive. The connections have to be snug, not loose. Swapping the cable connections sometimes resolves the problem. If that's okay your next step is to test the drives and it sounds like you've already done that but if not try giving TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts" a try...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

If both drives pass you have a couple of options. The first thing to do would be to replace the SATA cable. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10.

http://www.provantage.com/siig-cb-sa0111-s1~7SISE00F.htm

If that doesn't resolve it the next step is to disconnect the drive from TiVo and see if TiVo returns to normal. If so, you could replace it or go ahead and upgrade the internal hard drive and remove the additional point of potential failure. Of note though is the fact that TiVo recognizes eSATA drives by the exact hard drive model number. Quite a few recent reports have indicated that the WD My DVR Expanders are failing because something is going south in the enclosure, not with the actual hard drive itself. Several folks have had success by removing the hard drive from the enclosure and installing it in a new one (such as the recommended Antec MX-1). Once re-connected life is good again. Something to keep in mind.

Unfortunately if you do disconnect and divorce your eSATA drive you will lose all of the recordings made since the drive was installed. If you want to save any recordings you can use TiVo Desktop or one of the other transfer programs to move non-copy protected recordings to your computer.

If you decide to remove the eSATA drive, be sure to follow the proper divorce procedure:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html

If removing the eSATA drive doesn't resolve the issues that would indicate that the internal drive has a problem and needs replacing. Time to call TiVo or if it's past the warranty period you can replace the hard drive yourself.

Hope that helps. More information about troubleshooting, how to fix things and replacing your hard drive can be found on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ sticky thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## mcmnky

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear about your troubles with your TiVo HD. If the attenuation didn't help, go ahead and remove it.
> 
> The symptoms you listed are often caused by something happening with the external drive. The biggest issue has been the eSATA cable. The first thing to do is to ensure that the eSATA cable is securely attached to both TiVo and the external drive. The connections have to be snug, not loose. Swapping the cable connections sometimes resolves the problem. If that's okay your next step is to test the drives and it sounds like you've already done that.


Sounds great. Thanks.

It's been 4 days with the attenuation in place and the issue remains. I poked around some threads on partial records, and there were some suggestions of tuner issues. I didn't like the sound of that.

But drive issues I can handle. If removing the eSATA drive fixes the issue, a new big internal drive it will be.

In the mean time, I'll transfer my saved programs to computer while waiting on a new eSATA cable.

Thanks again, richsadams.


----------



## richsadams

There are a few reports of tuner issues, but actual problems are quite rare. Hard drives are the number one failure point by far and luckily somewhat easy to resolve. 

Keep us posted!


----------



## bkdtv

Partial recordings are almost always the fault of a failing external drive.


----------



## mcmnky

richsadams said:


> There are a few reports of tuner issues, but actual problems are quite rare. Hard drives are the number one failure point by far and luckily somewhat easy to resolve.
> 
> Keep us posted!


Did the deed tonight. Ditched the 500 GB extender and OEM drive and popped in a WD15EVDS. While I was in the neighborhood, I replaced the case fan with an AcoustiFan and anti-vibration gasket.

First thing I noticed: this community rocks! Compared to the process I went through to upgrade the drive in a Series 2, this was a snap. Worst part of the process was having to run out to Home Depot after remembering I lost my swiss army knife with the torx bits. (Damn, I miss that knife.)

Second thing: that thing is quiet. Did the AAM, and I swear it makes less sound running than it does unplugged. Never should have picked up the external drive--I always thought it was too noisy. (I blame the wife. "It's brand new, and now you want to go messing with it?" Am I right, guys?  )

Third thing: went from 93 hours HD to 198 hours. Wow. I know I'm not getting the full 1.5TB, but I ain't complaining.

Fourth thing: I had transferred or downloaded all the recordings I wanted to save, except the 5 little intro videos that come with the TiVo. I've never watched them, but for some reason I liked having them around. I expected to lose them when I swapped the drives because of the truncated backup.

I guess they count as configuration and not recordings, because they are still there! :up:

Been up and running for almost 2 hours, and so far no pixelation. Even have a couple HD recordings finish with no issues. (knock on wood)

I'll be away over the weekend. If I come home Sunday night to 198 hours of pixelated and partial recordings, I'll be right back here *****ing about it


----------



## richsadams

mcmnky said:


> Did the deed tonight. Ditched the 500 GB extender and OEM drive and popped in a WD15EVDS


Congrats and welcome to the "Big Boys Club".


----------



## Fortynine

I have a Series 3 Tivo with an external WD expansion drive and have been experiencing similar pixelation, freezing, dropout, and partial recording problems. If a new SATA cable corrects this problem I will be one extremely happy customer....and with resulting lower blood pressure...

One other problem I have is with the M card. This is now that second M card I had installed in my Series 3. The first one worked Ok for awhile but then defaulted to only a single stream. I called Cablevision (of Hauppage Long Island) for a service call and they installed a new M card. However they could only get it to produce a single video stream. At that point they claimed it must be a Tivo problem and left it as is. Any advice?


----------



## richsadams

Fortynine said:


> I have a Series 3 Tivo with an external WD expansion drive and have been experiencing similar pixelation, freezing, dropout, and partial recording problems. If a new SATA cable corrects this problem I will be one extremely happy customer....and with resulting lower blood pressure...
> 
> One other problem I have is with the M card. This is now that second M card I had installed in my Series 3. The first one worked Ok for awhile but then defaulted to only a single stream. I called Cablevision (of Hauppage Long Island) for a service call and they installed a new M card. However they could only get it to produce a single video stream. At that point they claimed it must be a Tivo problem and left it as is. Any advice?


Sorry to hear about your frustrating problems. First, do you actually have a TiVo Series3 or a TiVo HD? Although all hi-def TiVo's are from the Series3 line, they are different (at least for discussion purposes on the forum).

TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B - the "original" HD TiVo):










TiVo HD (TCD652160):










If you have a Series3 do you have one or two M cable cards installed? If you only have one you will only have one tuner available. TiVo Series3's require two cable cards (S or M).

If you have a TiVo HD you only need one M cable card to support both tuners.

It's rare, but cable cards can go south, usually due to firmware problems. Now and then cableco's will update the firmware which can cause them to "disconnect" at which time they need to be re-initiated or "re-paired" to your TiVo. Usually a call to the cable company asking them to "hit" the cards will do the trick.

Or it's possible the cable card has just failed and needs replacing. Based on posts here and other forums, Scientific Atlanta (SA) cable cards seem to have more issues like that than the Motorola brand.

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## Fortynine

I have the original Series3 running software version 11.0d-01-2-648. (top picture) When I first purchased this Tivo it was set up with two S cards, one in each slot. I "upgraded"?? to a Multi-stream card so I could save on the monthly cost of having one card rather than 2. Unless I'm delusional, when the M card was installed it worked as advertised, two video streams from one card. However, it eventually defaulted to function in only a single stream mode. If I need an M card in each slot for it the TIVO to operate in a multi stream mode, why not just keep an S card in each slot?


----------



## richsadams

I wouldn't want to call anyone delusional...but... The Series3 must have two cable cards to support the operations of both tuners, no if's, and's or but's. Apparently you just never had any conflicting recordings and things were okay with one tuner. As long as it wasn't recording anything you could easily change channels and never know better because you can only view one channel at a time anyway.

So the good news is...you just need another cable card (S or M, doesn't matter) and you'll be back in business!

EDIT: Ah, posting at the same moment. bkdtv's correct, unencrypted channels would have worked as well.


----------



## bkdtv

Fortynine said:


> Unless I'm delusional, when the M card was installed it worked as advertised, two video streams from one card. However, it eventually defaulted to function in only a single stream mode.


You're not entirely delusional. If you have two CableCards installed in the older TiVo Series3 model, and then replaced them with one M-CARD, then both tuners continue to function on unencrypted channels (like HD locals) until the box is rebooted. After a reboot, the Series3 reverts to single-tuner functionality.



Fortynine said:


> If I need an M card in each slot for it the TIVO to operate in a multi stream mode, why not just keep an S card in each slot?


No reason you shouldn't. There's no need for a M-CARD unless you have the newer TivoHD model which can support both tuners with a single M-CARD.

As alluded to above, the vast majority of pixelization (and partial recording) problems reported on this forum are due to failing external drives. Internal drives failures are rare in the first two years; after three years, internal drive failures become more common. A TiVo can last 10+ years if you are willing to replace the internal drive every 3-4 years (instructions).


----------



## Fortynine

That makes sense. I've placed a service call with Cablevision and Sunday the M card will be swapped out for two S cards.

Now all I need to do is replace the hard drive in the S3 to hopefully get rid of the ever increasing pixellation, stuttering, freezing and sound drops I'm experiencing.


----------



## Fortynine

I was reading through the drive upgrade FAQ was confused on a couple of points...

1. first of all there is a set of instructions under the heading .. *Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings* I have the WD expander drive connected to my S3. How is it I will be able to save my recordings to a new 1tb replacement drive if I've "unmarried" the WD expansion drive?
2. I'm able to copy all that is necessary with WinMFS and MFScopy? InstantCake will not be necessary?

Thanks to whomever can respond.


----------



## richsadams

Fortynine said:


> I was reading through the drive upgrade FAQ was confused on a couple of points...
> 
> 1. first of all there is a set of instructions under the heading .. *Internal Upgrade Instructions: Preserves Settings and Recordings* I have the WD expander drive connected to my S3. How is it I will be able to save my recordings to a new 1tb replacement drive if I've "unmarried" the WD expansion drive?
> 2. I'm able to copy all that is necessary with WinMFS and MFScopy? InstantCake will not be necessary?
> 
> Thanks to whomever can respond.


1. You won't be able to save any recordings made since the eSATA drive was attached.

2. Yes as long as your original hard drive is functional and not corrupted. Carefully follow the directions in Section V, 19a in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ. Your original hard drive's image, cable card info, season passes, etc. will be copied to your new hard drive.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## Fortynine

I purchased the 1 TB Western Digital WD10EVDS as a replacement drive for the original 250GB drive in my Series 3. I went through the installation process using WinMFS to preserve both the settings and recordings on the original Tivo drive. However, when I put everything back together and started up the Tivo all that came up was the 'Welcome - Powering Up' screen on which the unit remained fixated on. 

Any clues as to what may be wrong?


----------



## Fortynine

I just found a thread discussing this problem. I've re-posted my previous note there.


----------



## Davoman

For what it's worth I went around and around with TiVo on this issue recently. My S3 had worked for two years and recently started freezing and pixilating. Ultimately the fix was to swap the TiVo hardware box itself. New box, same external hard drive, cable, cable cards, wiring, signal levels, everything as before and the problem seems to have been fixed.


----------



## richsadams

Davoman said:


> For what it's worth I went around and around with TiVo on this issue recently. My S3 had worked for two years and recently started freezing and pixilating. Ultimately the fix was to swap the TiVo hardware box itself. New box, same external hard drive, cable, cable cards, wiring, signal levels, everything as before and the problem seems to have been fixed.


Good to know. Sounds very much like an internal hard drive issue. Glad it's fixed now...enjoy!


----------



## Davoman

richsadams said:


> Good to know. Sounds very much like an internal hard drive issue. Glad it's fixed now...enjoy!


Maybe. Both drives passed the QuickStart 54 test though, and the TiVo folks (at least most of the nine different people I talked to) seemed satisfied with that. But then again I never at any point felt like they had any concrete idea why these units work or don't work. They were guessing and grasping at straws. Ultimately I was happy when they suggested I pay them $149 to swap the unit. They wanted me to go away and I wanted the problem to go away. Hopefully it stays away.


----------



## iWish

I've got a series 3 (original) with two cable cards and an external hard drive. 

I started getting pixelation about a week ago (pretty bad on many channels).

The signal strength is in the 50's. Other diagnostics I should check? 

My office TV with cableco box has no pixelation problems.

Cable co is coming out tomorrow.

What is the gut feel here? Cable issue or Tivo issues? 

Thanks!!!!!!!


----------



## dlfl

iWish said:


> I've got a series 3 (original) with two cable cards and an external hard drive.
> 
> I started getting pixelation about a week ago (pretty bad on many channels).
> 
> The signal strength is in the 50's. Other diagnostics I should check?
> 
> My office TV with cableco box has no pixelation problems.
> 
> Cable co is coming out tomorrow.
> 
> What is the gut feel here? Cable issue or Tivo issues?
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!!


A failing hard drive is the most likely culprit although those signal strengths are too low. The TiVo support docs say a minimum of 65 for the S3 and 80-99 is recommended. Any reason the signal strength would have dropped?

Unfortunately it isn't uncommon for TiVo tuners to have problems with signals that Cable Co. equipment handles fine -- even when nothing is "wrong" with the TiVo.

What are the RS Uncorrected Error counts doing when you see bad pixelation? If they are large and climbing that indicates a signal problem. If they are zero or constant at a few hundred or less it should not be a signal problem.


----------



## iWish

dlfl said:


> A failing hard drive is the most likely culprit although those signal strengths are too low. The TiVo support docs say a minimum of 65 for the S3 and 80-99 is recommended. Any reason the signal strength would have dropped?
> 
> Unfortunately it isn't uncommon for TiVo tuners to have problems with signals that Cable Co. equipment handles fine -- even when nothing is "wrong" with the TiVo.
> 
> What are the RS Uncorrected Error counts doing when you see bad pixelation? If they are large and climbing that indicates a signal problem. If they are zero or constant at a few hundred or less it should not be a signal problem.


Thanks for the help.

RS Uncorrected error is constant at a less than a hundred on both tuners.

Overall, pixelation not as bad today as yesterday.

TNT is fine tonight (with signal rate in the sixties) but ESPN is choppy (with signal rate in the fifties).

I don't know why the signal rate would have dropped. Can't say I've ever checked, but nothing new lately. No new channels, other changes within the home, etc.

I'll lean on the cable people tomorrow when they come and tell them it is signal problem, but who knows......

They were very responsive when I called them which makes me think (1) they know there may be problems or (2) they finally realize how attractive the satellite competition is and will fight to keep their customers. I'd jumped long time ago but I love my tivo's. If I do need to replace the hard drive I may seriously consider Moxi's new package.


----------



## richsadams

iWish said:


> I've got a series 3 (original) with two cable cards and an external hard drive.
> 
> I started getting pixelation about a week ago (pretty bad on many channels).
> 
> The signal strength is in the 50's. Other diagnostics I should check?
> 
> My office TV with cableco box has no pixelation problems.
> 
> Cable co is coming out tomorrow.
> 
> What is the gut feel here? Cable issue or Tivo issues?
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!!


My vote is also for a signal strength problem. Ideal is 85 to 95. 50 is far too low. I'm surprised it works at all. A few years ago we experienced something similar and after several truck rolls the third cable tech disappeared and when he returned a half-hour later said that someone had incorrectly connected a new subscriber at the head end which caused our signal to plummet. Something as simple as a corroded line coming to the house and a little rain can cause havoc as well. Hopefully they can get it figured out quickly.


----------



## iWish

richsadams said:


> My vote is also for a signal strength problem. Ideal is 85 to 95. 50 is far too low. I'm surprised it works at all. A few years ago we experienced something similar and after several truck rolls the third cable tech disappeared and when he returned a half-hour later said that someone had incorrectly connected a new subscriber at the head end which caused our signal to plummet. Something as simple as a corroded line coming to the house and a little rain can cause havoc as well. Hopefully they can get it figured out quickly.


Cable guy came out and even though the TV signal was stronger with only minor pixelation on some channels than the previous few days he tested the signal and figured out there were signal issues. Problem was he needed to refer to a different team to work on the "outside grid". He said sometime the weather changes can affect the signal. Still waiting but hopeful the cable co will come through.


----------



## richsadams

At least you have a handle on the cause and hopefully they'll get it squared away quickly! Thanks for keeping us posted. :up:


----------



## b_scott

Having the same issues you are IWish. Everything over 225 is pixelizing almost constantly, and a few other channels are as well. My uncorrected errors are through the roof and climbing all the time - one had about 20,000 on first check. It's on both Tivo's. Sometimes it's just one tuner though. Weird.

Rolling a truck tomorrow.


----------



## jrdjrnola

RichSAdams - Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've been experiencing audio drop out and freezing issues to the point where it is beyond annoying. It seemed to only happen on high def channels so we automatically assumed it was a Comcast issue. I checked the signal strength and all appeared to be ok. Once I came to grips with losing all that was on my external Tivo supported hard drive, I took the plunge and unplugged it from the setup. Once Tivo did it's thing and unrecognized the external storage, all is fine. No more freezing, no more audio dropout, no more frustration. It is better for us to manage with a smaller storage space than to deal with the external storage device. It is going in the trash!


----------



## richsadams

jrdjrnola said:


> RichSAdams - Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> We've been experiencing audio drop out and freezing issues to the point where it is beyond annoying. It seemed to only happen on high def channels so we automatically assumed it was a Comcast issue. I checked the signal strength and all appeared to be ok. Once I came to grips with losing all that was on my external Tivo supported hard drive, I took the plunge and unplugged it from the setup. Once Tivo did it's thing and unrecognized the external storage, all is fine. No more freezing, no more audio dropout, no more frustration. It is better for us to manage with a smaller storage space than to deal with the external storage device. It is going in the trash!


Glad I could help...but how frustrating! Since it appears that it's often the WD My DVR enclosure that's the problem and not the actual hard drive itself, you might want to pull the hard drive, give it a good diagnostic run using WD's Lifeguard. If it passes you could pop it into one of the recommended enclosures in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160) and reconnect it to your TiVo or at least use it in a PC, etc.

Happy viewing!


----------



## kiranna

So,
I have a TA and S3 and could not get any SDV channels through the TA. After reading some tips here, I got the (excellent) SA M card diagnostics off the tivo site, found out my Cisco TA1520 was fine but the CCs were not properly bound, and got the Cablevision guys to come over and re-bind them to the S3. Now, I have everything working (theoretically) - the CCs are properly bound and all SDV channels come in.

UNFORTUNATELY--now the intense pixelation/screen and audio freeze problems have returned with a vengeance. So the irony is that the Tivo was working fine (albeit with none of the premium SDV or copy protected channels I was paying for), and with a seemingly non-functional TA. Now that the CCs are properly set up and the TA is working, the whole Tivo itself has become a brick which even after a restart begins pixelating and hanging, usually within 10-15 min. Seems my choices are: a) generally reliable performance but no access to SDV or protected channels (which is a nonstarter) or b) unusably bad performance, restarts & hangs 100% of the time but with all channels coming in. 

Your posts lead me to believe it is a problem with my external drive (500GB MyDVR expander) but I am not sure (of course I am willing to try anything at this point).

Here's weird thing #1: if I tune the 2 tuners to HD channels (say 802 which is HBO HD), I get choppy, pixelated unwatchable video. If i tune 1 or both to a SD channel (say channel 4 new york) then I still get pixelated and choppy but not so much. It is watchable but just barely.

Here's weird thing #2: If I leave the tuners on HD channels and then play a recording from the "now playing" list (a recording I've previously watched and verified that it's fine), then the RECORDED program behaves like the live HD video--choppy, freezes, pixelates, hangs). But if i go to live tv, switch both tuners to SD (low-res) channels, then go back to the SAME recorded program, it plays fine!

WTF?

My brain is hurting from all these permutations. I have posted infrequently here over the past almost 2 years and still never got to a point of satisfactory performance with my Tivo S3. No FIOS yet in my neighborhood so am stuck with this or nothing.

Any ideas?


----------



## dlfl

kiranna said:


> .........Here's weird thing #1: if I tune the 2 tuners to HD channels (say 802 which is HBO HD), I get choppy, pixelated unwatchable video. If i tune 1 or both to a SD channel (say channel 4 new york) then I still get pixelated and choppy but not so much. It is watchable but just barely.
> 
> Here's weird thing #2: If I leave the tuners on HD channels and then play a recording from the "now playing" list (a recording I've previously watched and verified that it's fine), then the RECORDED program behaves like the live HD video--choppy, freezes, pixelates, hangs). But if i go to live tv, switch both tuners to SD (low-res) channels, then go back to the SAME recorded program, it plays fine!
> .........


This is perfectly consistent with a hard drive problem. Disk errors slow down the read/write operations and if they get too slow you see pixelation. Disk read/write workload is higher for HD channels, whether just tuned (and being recorded to buffers) or playing back. You're seeing maximum pixelation for the cases with higher overall disk read/write workload.


----------



## kiranna

Thanks, do you think it would be an internal HD problem or external? I just ran the Kickstart 54 and let it run all day. The summary shows both hard drives passing the test. Given your statements above, would this problem occur on units whose hard drives passed the Kickstart 54?

Last question - the #$*@#$&ers at Tivo are saying that I have to pay $150 to get a replacement because i am out of warranty. ARGH. Would it make more sense for me to just buy a 1TB drive online, and upgrade the unit myself? I would rather not have to shell out $500 for a new TivoHD XL...


----------



## dlfl

The KS54 test doesn't catch all drive problems. The expander drive or its circuitry are the most likely culprits but first rule out your SATA cable. Reseat the connections. If you have another cable substitute it. Next disconnect the expander drive and see if the problems go away. If so run the manufacturer's extended test on the drive. It it passes the problem is the expander housing/circuity. Search for posts by richsadams in the Drive Exapansion sticky thread and you will find recommendations for replacing the housing. Or, upgrade the internal drive to 1 TB, which can be done for under $100 following instructions in that thread. If you have further questions about hard drive issues, I recommend posting them in that thread, where Rich is very attentive and very knowledgeable.


----------



## richsadams

kiranna said:


> Any ideas?


Without trying to sound like a Mutual Admiration Society member, I agree with dlfl's assessment of it being a hard drive problem. The fact that adding higher data throughput (HD signals have far higher data and consequently require much more I/O data management than SD) would indicate that one of your hard drives is unable to cope in one way or another. Error correction or lack thereof is probably the culprit. In other words, the more you throw at it (HD, playback recordings, etc.) the harder it is for your TiVo to handle it.

Agree also that KS54 is not fool proof. KS57 and/or KS58 may repair the problem, but it sounds much more like hardware failure than data corruption. More on Kickstarts here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5643823#post5643823

In the meantime, if you have any recordings you can't live without now would be a very good time to transfer them to a PC using TiVo Desktop or one of the other transfer programs available like KMTTG:

http://code.google.com/p/kmttg/

You can have a read of the rest of the valuable troubleshooting section in the Official Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Upgrading the internal hard drive is fairly easy if you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a PC. For less than $100 you can install a 1TB hard drive, remove a second failure point (the eSATA drive), have 157 HD and 1367 SD recording hours and basically a brand new TiVo. Everything you need to know can be found on the FAQ linked above.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

kiranna said:


> WTF? ... Any ideas?


Yeah, here's an idea. Hard disks and SATA interfaces are both capable of detecting errors. But TiVo doesn't report them, it just acts stupid and flaky.

Maybe if everyone who had a problem of this sort *complained at length* to TiVo's customer support phone line about the pathetic error reporting, it would get improved. Or not.


----------



## kiranna

Richs, dlfi--thanks, these are outstanding tips. Tivo has now come back and offered me an essentially free swap of the box. Not sure what to do...


----------



## richsadams

kiranna said:


> Richs, dlfi--thanks, these are outstanding tips. Tivo has now come back and offered me an essentially free swap of the box. Not sure what to do...


Glad to help. I think your best bet is to first save any (non-protected) recordings to your computer (per my earlier note) that you can't live without. Then disconnect and divorce your external hard drive. If TiVo begins functioning normally, then problem solved (and then upgrade the internal drive if you're so inclined). If not, take the exchange offer from TiVo.


----------



## kiranna

Quick update--Rich, I followed your advice, used Tivo desktop to copy some programs to my PC, divorced from the external drive and the Tivo has been working without a glitch. I am almost afraid to write this because i have had so many problems with the Tivo and I don't want to jinx it. I guess if this holds up, then my next step is to do an upgrade of the internal drive following the instructions you pointed me to the other day.

Again, thanks for the great tips. My wife was about to toss the Tivo (and me, almost) out the window.


----------



## ScottEllsworth

My S3, 18months old, and the third replacement I have gotten from TiVo, just stated pixelating, losing sound, and all that jazz. Cable guy came out, signal strength bounced between 95 and 100, with a s/n of 36. After replacing a card and a tuning adapter, plus much fiddling, we are pretty sure it is the TiVo.

I have an external 500G drive on it, and have not wanted to lose all my season passes and recored programs yet, so I have not tried unpairing, but the pauses, et. al, are incredibly frustrating.

I called TiVo about a replacement, and got the 'glad to replace for $149", but balked when they said they wanted an additional $250 to transfer my lifetime service. $400 for a unit that went belly-up, like the the three predecessors?

I was furious until I found this thread. From the sound of things, it is very likely either the external hard drive or the internal, and in either case, an upgrade to a 1T drive would fix the problem. I still am rather hacked off at their transfer fee, but if an upgrade fixes the problem for another couple of years, I will be pretty pleased.

I am likely to try replacing the internal hard drive, on the grounds that I am no worse off than if I unpair the external and lose my stuff.

Thanks, forum folk. It would be really cool were there a way to find the SMART status of these drives, or error rates from the external, as at least then they, and we, could do the right things without hours lost trying to diagnose.

Scott


----------



## richsadams

ScottEllsworth said:


> My S3, 18months old, and the third replacement I have gotten from TiVo, just stated pixelating, losing sound, and all that jazz. Cable guy came out, signal strength bounced between 95 and 100, with a s/n of 36. After replacing a card and a tuning adapter, plus much fiddling, we are pretty sure it is the TiVo.
> 
> I have an external 500G drive on it, and have not wanted to lose all my season passes and recored programs yet, so I have not tried unpairing, but the pauses, et. al, are incredibly frustrating.
> 
> I called TiVo about a replacement, and got the 'glad to replace for $149", but balked when they said they wanted an additional $250 to transfer my lifetime service. $400 for a unit that went belly-up, like the the three predecessors?
> 
> I was furious until I found this thread. From the sound of things, it is very likely either the external hard drive or the internal, and in either case, an upgrade to a 1T drive would fix the problem. I still am rather hacked off at their transfer fee, but if an upgrade fixes the problem for another couple of years, I will be pretty pleased.
> 
> I am likely to try replacing the internal hard drive, on the grounds that I am no worse off than if I unpair the external and lose my stuff.
> 
> Thanks, forum folk. It would be really cool were there a way to find the SMART status of these drives, or error rates from the external, as at least then they, and we, could do the right things without hours lost trying to diagnose.
> 
> Scott


How frustrating. As you've no doubt seen, it's probably the external hard drive. Have you tried running a SMART test (Kickstart 54)? More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Have you tried replacing the SATA cable? The cables supplied with the WD My DVR Expanders were notoriously problematic (short connectors). The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is about $10. However if it's another brand the cable is probably fine...just be sure the connections are snug at both ends.

If it's still functioning now would be a good time to transfer any (non-protected) recordings you want to save to a computer using TiVo Desktop or one of the third-party programs like KTTMG. Unfortunately you'll lose any recordings made since the external drive was attached when you go to upgrade, but that's a very good plan and has worked well for a lot of folks here.

Best of luck and keep us posted.


----------



## richsadams

kiranna said:


> Quick update--Rich, I followed your advice, used Tivo desktop to copy some programs to my PC, divorced from the external drive and the Tivo has been working without a glitch. I am almost afraid to write this because i have had so many problems with the Tivo and I don't want to jinx it. I guess if this holds up, then my next step is to do an upgrade of the internal drive following the instructions you pointed me to the other day.
> 
> Again, thanks for the great tips. My wife was about to toss the Tivo (and me, almost) out the window.


Excellent news! :up:


----------



## opus123

about a month ago I was experiencing increasing amounts of pixelation.

I ran kickstart 54,57,& 58 and all seemed ok. Everything passed 54, but it seemed 57 took a while, and likely fixed things

Yesterday I started seeing pixelation creeping back in, so this morning I decided to jump right to K57. Unfortunately, I'm now stuck in an endless loop of start-up->almost there->GSOD->reboot.

GSOD lasts for maybe 5 seconds and the loop resumes.

after about 30 minutes of this, I pulled the plug for 20 minutes, pulled the wi-fi usb... but it's right back to the same.

I even tried to get the start-up screen to go to KS54, with no luck... same pattern.

Anyone have any clue how I can break this loop?


----------



## dlfl

opus123 said:


> about a month ago I was experiencing increasing amounts of pixelation.
> 
> I ran kickstart 54,57,& 58 and all seemed ok. Everything passed 54, but it seemed 57 took a while, and likely fixed things
> 
> Yesterday I started seeing pixelation creeping back in, so this morning I decided to jump right to K57. Unfortunately, I'm now stuck in an endless loop of start-up->almost there->GSOD->reboot.
> 
> GSOD lasts for maybe 5 seconds and the loop resumes.
> 
> after about 30 minutes of this, I pulled the plug for 20 minutes, pulled the wi-fi usb... but it's right back to the same.
> 
> I even tried to get the start-up screen to go to KS54, with no luck... same pattern.
> 
> Anyone have any clue how I can break this loop?


You have quite a few posts recently in the Drive Expansion Sticky thread that should be used as background for your current post here. (Not sure why you switched threads.) It appears you upgraded 2 HD's with EVVS drives about 2 months ago and started seeing pixelation problems with one of them about a month ago correct?

If so, the most likely problem is the drive, although you did mention something about not turning off anti-virus when you used WinMFS on at least one of the upgrades. I would recommend removing the offending drive and running the WD **extended** diagnositic test on it. Possibly makes sense to first redo the WinMFS thing making sure AV is turned off. It appears you're using a MAC so I don't know where that leaves you as far as running the WD diagnostics (or turning off AV). Would it be easy for you to get temporary use of a Windows PC?


----------



## opus123

switched threads because I thought it might be more appropriate here.

you're correct on all accounts, i'm only seeing trouble with the drive that had anti-virus engage during back-up. although the other tivo has been hooked to a Standard-def tv, so it didn't really feel like it's been pushed/used the same.

Temporary use of a PC is possible but not too convenient, so I was hoping an internal fix would remedy. Never thoght I'd get caught in the endless reboot loop. Will be a shame to lose so many recording i planned on watching over the holidays.

Do I download the WD diagnostic program? from the WD site?
And yeah, i'm not exactly sure how to turn off anti-virus either


----------



## Cruzin Chris

richsadams said:


> Excellent news! :up:


Dito here too man, exactly the same problem I was having and the divorce worked. Ive had the cable techs out to my place three times now over the last month. 
If I can add one unique item to my situation my problems started after I moved all my A/V equipment to a hidden chest with the use of a remote IR system. The eSATA cable or the external HD may not of liked the move to it's new home, or maybe I bumped the unit.

Thanks Rich.


----------



## richsadams

Cruzin Chris said:


> Dito here too man, exactly the same problem I was having and the divorce worked. <snip>


Good news...sort of. At least you were able to find the culprit. Sweet little set up...well disguised and everything can still breath. :up:


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> Do I download the WD diagnostic program? from the WD site?
> And yeah, i'm not exactly sure how to turn off anti-virus either


 I'm with dlfl both regarding the issue (probably a failing hard drive) as well as trying to run winMFS again. Rather than simply running the program again I'd try connecting it and attempt to fix the bootpage. Per the MFSLive web site:

Fix Bootpage Option 1 & 2 
_If Tivo bootpage is damaged, use this tool to fix it. There is option 1 & 2 as there is no way of knowing which partitions are active. So you have 50/50 chance of guessing it right. Try option 1 and see if it boots up properly and has the correct software. If not try option2._​
If that doesn't do it, then I'd start from scratch and re-image the drive using your original source. I'd do all of the above with the anti-virus turned off. If the virus software's site doesn't say how to disable it, post what type you have and someone here should be able to tell you how.

If none of that works then you could run WD's Lifeguard Diagnostic. One pass extended read, one pass extended write, and another pass extended read (takes up to 12 hours). Here's the link:

WD's Lifeguard.

If the drive passes it's possible that something else is wrong with TiVo but it's not too likely.

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## opus123

Much appreciated with the assist Rich. I'm hoping to get access to a pc in the next day or so. Got a little side-tracked yesterday after a failed attempt to install a bedroom tv wall mount. Whacked myself in the head pretty good, so have been forced to take a break and ice it.

Without tivo for a few days now. Mid-tv installation in the bedroom, and HD problems in the living room.

Will let you know what Anti-Virus software is installed if it's not intuitive to disable. 

Thanks AGAIN!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Cruzin Chris said:


> If I can add one unique item to my situation my problems started after I moved all my A/V equipment to a hidden chest with the use of a remote IR system.


What temperature does the TiVo report? Are you sure you're getting enough cooling in that chest?


----------



## Cruzin Chris

Does TiVo have a setting that will report its operating temp? There is no lining on the inside of the wicker trunk. Its such a loose weave that you can almost work the remote directly through the trunk, but I put an IR repeater system in it so I dont have to point the remote below my feet.

This is an older pic. The DVD player on the right is gone and now the speaker sits on a little shelf I built.


----------



## btwyx

Cruzin Chris said:


> Does TiVo have a setting that will report its operating temp?


Its on the system information screen.


----------



## Cruzin Chris

Oh cool, I found it. 45C (normal). Im out of town using the slingbox right now. Ill have to see what it gets to when I get back home and the receiver is on next to it. 
Thanks again.


----------



## LockRob

I have a SNR of 34db; Is this too hot? 
Would an in-line signal attenuator help. I have noticed that when my signal strength jumps form 81 to 87, I experience pixalization. Some of the posts lean in that direction, but none have stated that this is a cause. 
Does anyone know for sure? I have an HD, so those earlier post stating that the problem was solved with the HD are incorrect.
If anyone has found more definitive information, please point me in that direction. Thanks-


----------



## opus123

Fixing Bootpage option 1 &2 didn't work, so i'm now running the extended WD Lifeguard test. 
3 hours into a 10 hour process... oh boy.

Can anyone clarify the 'next steps' on this process. Lifeguard will inform of any found errors, and i'll have the option to remedy those that are correctable. If all is correctable, does zero-ing undo the 'fix'... or should i only zero-out if all other tests "pass"?

update: drive passed the extended test with no errors
- for preventative measures, I'm zero-ing out the drive in case some buggy data was causing problems
- 20 hours to complete via USB drive dock

Will run the tivo on back-up drive/truncated backup image... and re-image this drive for a different tivo


----------



## opus123

While running with the replacement drive, I've noticed something concerning...
Took a full day for my other tivo to show up as a transfer option... and now most of my recordings have been flagged as restricted by the copyright owner. 
- NEVER seen this before, and it's occurred with many shows I've had for some time without any such restriction.

Did I cause this somehow or just a coincidence?


----------



## opus123

Pixelation is creeping back again, this time on a completely new HD.

I imaged a new 1TB drive with my original truncated back-up, and have been running for a few days clean. My other 1TB drive passed all Lifeguard tests, and was zero-ed out. Figured I'd try it in another unit in the near future.

Today i noticed the pixelation returning. 
- I have 2 tivos, and I tuned them to the same channel to test.
- One pixelates fairly regularly, the other was clean until now... every once in a while it occcurs.. milder than the other
- Temperature reads 44C normal on both units

Could this be a signal or cable-card problem?
- HD channels are reading 78 to 95, with some channels stable, others that fluctuate
- SD channels seem to be about 87-88
- I'm seeing the problem on those channels whose signal fluctuates (WPIX-HD in NY is the worst)

Do you think this a signal or cable-card issue?

Should I call tivo support, or go directly to cablevision?
- I'm nervous about interacting with tivo considering I've upgraded both units


----------



## dlfl

opus123 said:


> Pixelation is creeping back again, this time on a completely new HD.
> 
> I imaged a new 1TB drive with my original truncated back-up, and have been running for a few days clean. My other 1TB drive passed all Lifeguard tests, and was zero-ed out. Figured I'd try it in another unit in the near future.
> 
> Today i noticed the pixelation returning.
> - I have 2 tivos, and I tuned them to the same channel to test.
> - One pixelates fairly regularly, the other was clean until now... every once in a while it occcurs.. milder than the other
> - Temperature reads 44C normal on both units
> 
> Could this be a signal or cable-card problem?
> - HD channels are reading 78 to 95, with some channels stable, others that fluctuate
> - SD channels seem to be about 87-88
> - I'm seeing the problem on those channels whose signal fluctuates (WPIX-HD in NY is the worst)
> 
> Do you think this a signal or cable-card issue?
> 
> Should I call tivo support, or go directly to cablevision?
> - I'm nervous about interacting with tivo considering I've upgraded both units


To get absolute certainty whether it's a signal problem, swap the two TiVo's and see if the worst problems follow the boxes or stays at the cable drop location.

Your signal levels seem good (TiVo recommends 80-99). Do you have SDV and a Tuning Adapter? And is it possible the problems are only on SDV channels? What are the SNR's for the same channel on the 2 TiVo's? Also, RS Uncorrected Error counts?


----------



## opus123

Forgive the acronym ignorance, but what are SNR & RS?

I don't have a tuning adapter, but one unit has the coax routed through a surge suppressor. That unit behaves a bit better, and the signal strength is 1 point below the non-surge protected unit.

The problem is worst on cablevision local channel 711 (wpix-hd). I haven't been able to watch Smallville in months. Although 80-99 is recommended is it supposed to constantly fluctuate? One channel doing 91,88,86,83,89,84,89,87,84,90.
- While i monitor the signal i also see the gray screen flash up for a second occasionally
- Other stations like National Geo have no issues as they lock in at about 90-92 and stay there
- I honestly don't know which stations are SDV. I thought the various HBO's were, but they all tune in fine without a tuning adapter

I'm feeling it's a signal issue, but not sure if that means bad external connections, poor transmission , or a problematic cable-card


----------



## dlfl

opus123 said:


> Forgive the acronym ignorance, but what are SNR & RS?....................


Go to Messages & Settings .... System Information .... Account & System Information ... DVR Diagnositcs. There will be information for the two channels that are currently tuned.

Signal Strength, SNR and RS Uncorrected Errors are found there, by those names. SNR is Signal-to-noise ratio and RS stands for Reed -Solomon which is the name of an error correction algrotihm used.


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## opus123

ok thanks...

1st Tivo
SNR: 35 db
RS uncorrected: 0
RS corrected: 105 (current, this # has been climbing)

2nd Tivo (less problematic)
SNR: 35bd
RS uncorrected: 0
RS corrected: 0

What is the significance of RS corrected? why different on both, and why is one climbing?


----------



## opus123

update

1st tivo
SNR: 35db
RS uncorrected: 672
RS corrected: 560 (still climbing slowly)

2nd tivo -- unchanged

is this cause for alarm?


----------



## opus123

1st tivo
SNR: 35db
RS uncorrected: 1344
RS corrected: 1101

2nd tivo unchanged

Any idea what this could mean?

last update:
1st tivo RS #'s continue to climb
2nd tivo corrected only went to 6


----------



## dlfl

opus123 said:


> 1st tivo
> SNR: 35db
> RS uncorrected: 1344
> RS corrected: 1101
> 
> 2nd tivo unchanged
> 
> Any idea what this could mean?
> 
> last update:
> 1st tivo RS #'s continue to climb
> 2nd tivo corrected only went to 6


Are the two TiVo's tuned to the same channel? And what are the signal strengths?

The SNR's are plenty good. However the climbing error counts do indicate some kind of signal problem.

Do the same comparison for a couple of other channels where you see differences between the two units. It's strange to see error counts without either a low signal strength or low SNR. (Low SNR would be less than 31 dB for a digital cable signal.) Can you do the TiVo swap I suggested?


----------



## opus123

Yes both were tuned to the same channel. Signal strengths continually fluctuated between 87 and 93.


I see the same problems on each unit on certain channels (NY, WPIXDT local hd being the worst), with Tivo 2 behaving a little better than Tivo 1. I just checked and RS numbers on tivo 2 had climbed significantly as well... just took longer to start and progress.

I'll try to do a tivo swap tomorrow morning if you still think that's relevant.


----------



## dlfl

opus123 said:


> Yes both were tuned to the same channel. Signal strengths continually fluctuated between 87 and 93.
> 
> I see the same problems on each unit on certain channels (NY, WPIXDT local hd being the worst), with Tivo 2 behaving a little better than Tivo 1. I just checked and RS numbers on tivo 2 had climbed significantly as well... just took longer to start and progress.
> 
> I'll try to do a tivo swap tomorrow morning if you still think that's relevant.


What really counts is the rate of error counts, i.e., how much they increase per second or minute. There isn't any specification on how many are too many unfortunately.

If you see siginificantly worse problems on one TiVo than the on the other, the swap is the only relatively simple way I know to determine whether the difference is due to the signals or is a difference in the TiVo units. Your error count rates seem to be higher on one of the TiVo's, correct? That would suggest it's a signal problem.

Normally you don't see increasing error counts, so something seems wrong. But your signal strengths and SNRs are good so it's a puzzle. For lack of anything else to suggest, you might ask the cable co. to check your signals.


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> 1st tivo
> SNR: 35db
> RS uncorrected: 1344
> RS corrected: 1101
> 
> 2nd tivo unchanged
> 
> Any idea what this could mean?
> 
> last update:
> 1st tivo RS #'s continue to climb
> 2nd tivo corrected only went to 6


dlfl is correct (as usual)...in your case the RS Uncorrected error count can be the key. I'll add my two cents (but remember you get what you pay for here.  )

Since you have two TiVo's, swapping them out is an easy way to pinpoint a bad cable drop, splitter, etc. Signal strength can vary slightly (say from 89 to 93) but wild and/or constant swings means there's a problem.

IIRC you said you had the coax running through a surge protector? That connection s/b removed. Surge protectors will add signal noise no matter how good they are. Your TiVo s/b connected to a good UPS (like this one) and the coax directly from the wall if possible. You want as clean a signal as you can get. Anything and everything in between the cable drop at the street, including old coax cable, splitters, old or loose connectors, etc., can degrade the signal. Try to come as close as possible to a pristine coax connection. Make sure that the connection is insulated from other sources of trouble including water leakage (rain/snow can cause all sorts of problems), additional power supplies, etc. If things look good start reintroducing the various elements and you should be able to find the piece that's causing some problems.

RS Uncorrected errors are how TiVo meausures signal errors that cause PQ issues and audio dropouts. If you see 0 RS Uncorrected errors on a channel, then you know you are seeing the channel just as it is delivered. A few dozen or even a few hundred RS Uncorrected errors won't be noticeable, but if you see millions of RS Uncorrected errors per minute (and climbing), then you know that additional problems and A/V degradation is being introduced.

When tuned to these problematic channels, do you see thousands or even millions of RS Uncorrected errors on the DVR Diagnostics screen? Remember between the two TiVo's you have four tuners. Tuning each to the same (problematic) channel can sometimes isolate the issue. If RSUE's are more or less the same on all four tuners the signal is most likely the issue (could be caused by a defective splitter or cable). If it's only on one tuner on one TiVo it's probably a cable card issue or could be a TiVo tuner problem.

Now with all of that said, if you see this pixelization with few or no RS Uncorrected errors, then chances are good that there's a problem with the hard drive. The disk errors tend to be most noticable on HD channels. That doesn't sound like the issue here though since your RSUE's are present and climbing.

Overall it may just be something as simple as the cable signal developing a problem (anything from your street drop to something at the neighborhod node to the head end) and as dlfl suggests, having them come out and test the signal and fix it may cure everything. Or just as simple, it might be something in your setup (a splitter or coax cable for example) getting flaky.

Hope that helps and let us know what you find out.


----------



## SCSIRAID

opus123 said:


> Yes both were tuned to the same channel. Signal strengths continually fluctuated between 87 and 93.
> 
> I see the same problems on each unit on certain channels (NY, WPIXDT local hd being the worst), with Tivo 2 behaving a little better than Tivo 1. I just checked and RS numbers on tivo 2 had climbed significantly as well... just took longer to start and progress.
> 
> I'll try to do a tivo swap tomorrow morning if you still think that's relevant.


Do you have a tuning adapter? The TA has pretty good signal measuring capability. You can get the actual strength in dBmV as opposed to a 0-100 scale.

Rich and dlfl are exactly right... eliminate as many connections as you can.. splitters, surge protectors.. they can be trouble. I dont pass my RF thru my TA even. I split prior and feed both separately. It bypasses the splitter/amp/filter in the TA.


----------



## SCSIRAID

richsadams said:


> Now with all of that said, if you see this pixelization with few or no RS Uncorrected errors, then chances are good that there's a problem with the hard drive. The disk errors tend to be most noticable on HD channels. That doesn't sound like the issue here though since your RSUE's are present and climbing.


Not in all cases....

See this post... There are inherent problems with pixelation on at least several SDV systems.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7702489#post7702489

Also, the program source can contain errors which are simply shipped on thru by the provider. The FEC (Forward Error Correction) which drives the RS values doesnt detect any errors because the errors were already there when the stream was modulated onto the QAM and the FEC was generated.


----------



## richsadams

SCSIRAID said:


> Not in all cases....
> 
> See this post... There are inherent problems with pixelation on at least several SDV systems.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7702489#post7702489
> 
> Also, the program source can contain errors which are simply shipped on thru by the provider. The FEC (Forward Error Correction) which drives the RS values doesnt detect any errors because the errors were already there when the stream was modulated onto the QAM and the FEC was generated.


Good points. Once in a while we'll watch a show while it's recording and see some PQ problems. Checking the RS Errors shows little to none so it's obvious the problem is with the provider, not TiVo.

Thanks for the link...good info. :up:


----------



## naclone

hi everybody. I switched to FiOS about a year ago and did a lot of reading in this thread and the FiOS attenuation thread anticipating pixelation issues that never manifested. Until now. 

I have a Series 3 running 11.0d with 1TB My DVR Expander which has been connected for 6 months or so. This week started to see pixelation issues as have been described here so often and which are consistently reproducible on playback.

whenever i've experienced the pixelation i immediately check the diagnostics screen but consistently see no RS errors. Signal Strength is consistently 100, SNR alternates regularly between 36 and 37 dB and RS Uncorrected and Corrected are both zero. this is the case for both tuners. 

trying to catch back up (and it looks like the FiOS discussion has moved here?) but if I am not seeing errors reported is that 100&#37; indicative it is not an attenuation issue and more likely a hard drive issue? or should i try attenuation to see what happens?

Also this week our TivoHD (also with a 1TB My DVR Expander) has been experiencing stuttering but not pixelation. these are sometimes reproducible on playback, but not always. Not sure if the two issues are in any way related or if its truly coincidence. but thought it worth mentioning.


----------



## richsadams

naclone said:


> hi everybody. I switched to FiOS about a year ago and did a lot of reading in this thread and the FiOS attenuation thread anticipating pixelation issues that never manifested. Until now.
> 
> I have a Series 3 running 11.0d with 1TB My DVR Expander which has been connected for 6 months or so. This week started to see pixelation issues as have been described here so often and which are consistently reproducible on playback.
> 
> whenever i've experienced the pixelation i immediately check the diagnostics screen but consistently see no RS errors. Signal Strength is consistently 100, SNR alternates regularly between 36 and 37 dB and RS Uncorrected and Corrected are both zero. this is the case for both tuners.
> 
> trying to catch back up (and it looks like the FiOS discussion has moved here?) but if I am not seeing errors reported is that 100% indicative it is not an attenuation issue and more likely a hard drive issue? or should i try attenuation to see what happens?
> 
> Also this week our TivoHD (also with a 1TB My DVR Expander) has been experiencing stuttering but not pixelation. these are sometimes reproducible on playback, but not always. Not sure if the two issues are in any way related or if its truly coincidence. but thought it worth mentioning.


Sorry to hear of your troubles. Based on numerous reports on the TCF and other forums (as well as your own diagnostics) odds are what you're seeing has nothing to do with FIOS and everything to do with your eSATA drive. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

You might also try running some of TiVo's built-in diagnostics called "Kickstarts". More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

KS54 in particular may be able to tell you if there's a hard drive issue but it's not fool-proof.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## naclone

richsadams said:


> Sorry to hear of your troubles. Based on numerous reports on the TCF and other forums (as well as your own diagnostics) odds are what you're seeing has nothing to do with FIOS and everything to do with your eSATA drive. More here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444
> 
> You might also try running some of TiVo's built-in diagnostics called "Kickstarts". More here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2
> 
> KS54 in particular may be able to tell you if there's a hard drive issue but it's not fool-proof.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


early indications are that simply unplugging the tivos, unplugging and disconnecting the Extenders then reconnecting the Extenders and powering back up, have alleviated both issues.

fingers crossed.

thanks


----------



## richsadams

naclone said:


> early indications are that simply unplugging the tivos, unplugging and disconnecting the Extenders then reconnecting the Extenders and powering back up, have alleviated both issues.
> 
> fingers crossed.
> 
> thanks


Sounds good. I'd probably invest in the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable. It's about $10 and some good insurance if that's the issue.


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## pRobinson

I had pixelation on one HD channel. I called Tivo and had my cable company come out - no one helped. I read somewhere(maybe even on this forum) that an attenuator might help. I got a $13 variable attenuator and reduced the signal strength and my problem is gone.


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## mastamind51

may you please point me in the right direction of where you found the variable attenuator for cheap that worked? (i.e. radioshack or an online store, the one you specifically bought would be nice!) Thank you


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## pRobinson

http://www.antennasdirect.com/filter-attenuator.html is where I got it - even had free shipping.


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## mastamind51

thank you


----------



## opus123

Well definitely a Cablevision related issue. Had a tech here twice. 1st tech changed splitters and connectors but found nothing wrong, but the pixelation persisted.

2nd tech came by today, and simply handed me the workorder to sign. Said he couldn't do anything to help... and that it was central issue with Long Island (i'm in Brooklyn). I couldn't discern if he meant Cablecard firmware or the actual signal push.. not sure if he did either. He said that a ticket was opened to fix the problem but had no way of knowing when it would be resolved. 

What's worse is that I bought a 3rd tivo (as a gift w/ lifetime sub)... that I'll probably have to return. I have a week to return the hardware, and about 2.5 weeks to refund the lifetime sub.

I'm not confident Cablevision will fix the problem, since it's not their own equipment (The non-tivo box plays just fine). I'm also uncertain if switching to FIOS will yield a better result. 

Are there any other forum Brooklyn, NY Cablevision subscribers having pixelation issues on local HD channels?

Are there still known/unresolved Fios/Tivo problems?


----------



## SCSIRAID

opus123 said:


> Well definitely a Cablevision related issue. Had a tech here twice. 1st tech changed splitters and connectors but found nothing wrong, but the pixelation persisted.
> 
> 2nd tech came by today, and simply handed me the workorder to sign. Said he couldn't do anything to help... and that it was central issue with Long Island (i'm in Brooklyn). I couldn't discern if he meant Cablecard firmware or the actual signal push.. not sure if he did either. He said that a ticket was opened to fix the problem but had no way of knowing when it would be resolved.
> 
> What's worse is that I bought a 3rd tivo (as a gift w/ lifetime sub)... that I'll probably have to return. I have a week to return the hardware, and about 2.5 weeks to refund the lifetime sub.
> 
> I'm not confident Cablevision will fix the problem, since it's not their own equipment (The non-tivo box plays just fine). I'm also uncertain if switching to FIOS will yield a better result.
> 
> Are there any other forum Brooklyn, NY Cablevision subscribers having pixelation issues on local HD channels?
> 
> Are there still known/unresolved Fios/Tivo problems?


Is it on all channels or perhaps just on the SDV channels (assuming you have SDV and a Tuning Adapter)...


----------



## opus123

I don't have a tuning adapter, and quite honestly, I don't even know which channels would be SDV.

Aside from an occasional glitch on other channels, the pixelation is limited to Local HD channels. Originally 711 (WPIX) & 709 (WOR)... but now includes 704 (NBC), 705 (FOX), and 707 (ABC). 

702 (CBS) KNOCK ON WOOD, so far has been ok. I pray CBS holds up through the Jet/Colt playoff game Sunday.

The affected channels show signal strength all over the road 81, 87, 93, 0, 75, 87, 75, 93... I've even seen it hit 100 for a while. The Errors quickly climb into the 5 and 6 digit range. SNR fluctuates around 34,34,36.. but will sometimes fall to 23 for a few moments.

It's a mess.


----------



## SCSIRAID

opus123 said:


> I don't have a tuning adapter, and quite honestly, I don't even know which channels would be SDV.
> 
> Aside from an occasional glitch on other channels, the pixelation is limited to Local HD channels. Originally 711 (WPIX) & 709 (WOR)... but now includes 704 (NBC), 705 (FOX), and 707 (ABC).
> 
> 702 (CBS) KNOCK ON WOOD, so far has been ok. I pray CBS holds up through the Jet/Colt playoff game Sunday.
> 
> The affected channels show signal strength all over the road 81, 87, 93, 0, 75, 87, 75, 93... I've even seen it hit 100 for a while. The Errors quickly climb into the 5 and 6 digit range. SNR fluctuates around 34,34,36.. but will sometimes fall to 23 for a few moments.
> 
> It's a mess.


Is this a THD or an S3? Probably the first thing I would try is to attenuate the signal. The SNR fluctuation could be due to overload. You could add a 2 way or 4 way splitter in the line and see if that changes anything. Do you have a regular cablebox that you could get into diag mode and see what signal strength it reads on that line?


----------



## ethics13

opus123 said:


> Well definitely a Cablevision related issue. Had a tech here twice. 1st tech changed splitters and connectors but found nothing wrong, but the pixelation persisted.
> 
> 2nd tech came by today, and simply handed me the workorder to sign. Said he couldn't do anything to help... and that it was central issue with Long Island (i'm in Brooklyn). I couldn't discern if he meant Cablecard firmware or the actual signal push.. not sure if he did either. He said that a ticket was opened to fix the problem but had no way of knowing when it would be resolved.
> 
> What's worse is that I bought a 3rd tivo (as a gift w/ lifetime sub)... that I'll probably have to return. I have a week to return the hardware, and about 2.5 weeks to refund the lifetime sub.
> 
> I'm not confident Cablevision will fix the problem, since it's not their own equipment (The non-tivo box plays just fine). I'm also uncertain if switching to FIOS will yield a better result.
> 
> Are there any other forum Brooklyn, NY Cablevision subscribers having pixelation issues on local HD channels?
> 
> Are there still known/unresolved Fios/Tivo problems?


Basically have the same issue here in Brooklyn with Cablevision (IODigital). TiVO HD, series3, channel 4 and 5 are borked with pixelation (704 and 705). Tech came and did basically the same as your tech #1. Told me it's my TiVo since the signal is fine from to the box.


----------



## richsadams

opus123 said:


> Are there still known/unresolved Fios/Tivo problems?


Can't speak for FIOS in your area but since we switched from Comcast to VZ FIOS almost a year ago it has been problem-free. In fact the PQ has been stunning in some circumstances! (VZ does not compress signals as do cableco's and satellite companies.) There were some signal issues for some a while back (we never experienced any) but TiVo pushed a fix with v11.0d and that took care of it. If you can get FIOS I wouldn't hesitate for a second if I were you. :up:


----------



## tap1966

ethics13 said:


> Basically have the same issue here in Brooklyn with Cablevision (IODigital). TiVO HD, series3, channel 4 and 5 are borked with pixelation (704 and 705). Tech came and did basically the same as your tech #1. Told me it's my TiVo since the signal is fine from to the box.


Having the same issues with 704 and 705 in Brooklyn.


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## ethics13

tap1966 said:


> Having the same issues with 704 and 705 in Brooklyn.


That makes me feel that this is NOT Tivo.


----------



## mackie

I too have the same issue. I believe that it started on 1/16.
I have a Tivo Series 3 and a dual cable card setup. I contacted Cablevision and a tech did come out but he simple confirmed that the issue was most likely due to recent system upgrades and that other people in the Brooklyn are were experiencing the same issue. It is definitely not a Tivo problem. My other Hd channels are fine and there is no issue with standard def.

It is fortunate that I really don't watch a lot of NBC but very bad since I watch 24. ;-p

no one was very clear on when the poblem would be fixed.

Ian


----------



## jza80

I very recently started to get sound drops and pixelation on my Cox Comm south OC feed. Happens during live viewing and recorded shows, on HD and SD broadcasts (the SD are not as severe), so I am suspecting a supplier issue and not a problem with the Tivo. I guess I'll have to call Cox and see what they can try to do about it.


----------



## dlfl

jza80 said:


> I very recently started to get sound drops and pixelation on my Cox Comm south OC feed. Happens during live viewing and recorded shows, on HD and SD broadcasts (the SD are not as severe), so I am suspecting a supplier issue and not a problem with the Tivo. I guess I'll have to call Cox and see what they can try to do about it.


Unless this is happening only on specific channels, it sounds like a bad hard drive. HDD problems are worse on HD because of the higher bitrates.

Looks like you just installed the HDD. You might want to run the WD extended diagnostics test on it, although you could start with the Kickstart 54 in the TiVo, realizing the KS tests sometimes don't catch problems.


----------



## jza80

dlfl said:


> Unless this is happening only on specific channels, it sounds like a bad hard drive. HDD problems are worse on HD because of the higher bitrates.
> 
> Looks like you just installed the HDD. You might want to run the WD extended diagnostics test on it, although you could start with the Kickstart 54 in the TiVo, realizing the KS tests sometimes don't catch problems.


Since I am also seeing the problem with live feed, does that still point to a possible HDD problem?


----------



## dlfl

jza80 said:


> Since I am also seeing the problem with live feed, does that still point to a possible HDD problem?


Even in live mode you're actually seeing what has been written to the disk then read back for display (i.e., the 30 minute buffer), so yes I would say that doesn't rule out the HDD. If you ever view or listen to a channel coming through your TiVo and also through a STB or direct cable-to-TV connection, or an antenna input, you experience close to a seoond of delay on the TiVo because of this. As the HDD fails it has to retry read/writes which makes it take too long to keep up with the video bitrate, thus the pixelation -- at least that's my understanding of it.


----------



## hakoreh1

mackie said:


> I too have the same issue. I believe that it started on 1/16.
> I have a Tivo Series 3 and a dual cable card setup. I contacted Cablevision and a tech did come out but he simple confirmed that the issue was most likely due to recent system upgrades and that other people in the Brooklyn are were experiencing the same issue. It is definitely not a Tivo problem. My other Hd channels are fine and there is no issue with standard def.
> 
> It is fortunate that I really don't watch a lot of NBC but very bad since I watch 24. ;-p
> 
> no one was very clear on when the poblem would be fixed.
> 
> Ian


I've had this same problem for about 10 days now. I've had a technician over already who has declared it a TiVo problem. He also tried to connect a regular Cablevision HD box and it worked flawlessly. He tried changing cable cards but that only made the pixelation worse so he put back the older cable card. I've tried attenuating and the result is with 16 or 10 the TiVo says no signal, with 6 and 3 there is a weak signal that goes in and out.

Cablevision has comped me $180 since because they have had technicians come and go, people tell me I have a tuning adapter (where the local store says it's only for LI locations) and so on and so on.

I have a tech coming tomorrow (GD Willing) so I see it's not only me and that's a good thing but what can I do? I don't want to go to FIOS especially with the higher cancellation fee now.

By the way it only happens on HD - NBC, FOX, and WPIX (704, 705, 711). It won't happen on any other channel.


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## hakoreh1

I think I found a way (I think) to test whether it is the Tivo or Cablevision signal. I have an Amazon on Demand account and I'm downloading a movie now. Once it finishes, if it plays flawlessly it has to be the Cablevision signal right?


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## SCSIRAID

hakoreh1 said:


> I think I found a way (I think) to test whether it is the Tivo or Cablevision signal. I have an Amazon on Demand account and I'm downloading a movie now. Once it finishes, if it plays flawlessly it has to be the Cablevision signal right?


No,  not necessarily. The best experiment to run is to watch the 'offending' channel live. As you start, go into DVR Diags and check the RS Uncorrected and Corrected counts. As you watch and see events, go back into DVR Diags and recheck the RS counts. Post back what you see. The RS Uncorrected counter counts how many times the demodulator was unable to recover any bit errors in the data in a packet. These events will likely result in macroblocking. If the counts remain zero then the macroblocking is either 'upstream' from the hub (i.e. came from the provider) or something else is going on such as the mpeg PAT is changing (which will cause macroblocking on TiVo).


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## hakoreh1

well the movie played fine. The most awesome part of this is that I kid you not the Tivo is back to normal thank GD. There are no pixelations or anything? On ANY channel. 

By the way I did say I was having the same problem as the others which means that my RS corrected and uncorrected was jumping and increasing by the second. 

in any case thanks


----------



## Brighton Line

hakoreh1 said:


> I think I found a way (I think) to test whether it is the Tivo or Cablevision signal. I have an Amazon on Demand account and I'm downloading a movie now. Once it finishes, if it plays flawlessly it has to be the Cablevision signal right?


I've been working with the Brooklyn Cablebvision of NYC office on the issue of pixelation on 704/705/711. I've had a cable tech and even a CV enginer over to the apartment as I'm getting pixelation on those channels on both of my Tivo's (Tivo HD and Tivo Series 3 (Original)) as well as on clear QAM on my TV when I move the coax over to it.
I've removed all but two splitters in the apartment (one where it comes thru the wall for the modem and one between bedroom/living room). The signal on those channels drop to low 80's and lower and even the SNR goes to zero when the pixelation happens. 
CV has been to the apartment THREE times with various meters and even a cablebox and yes the pixelation has hapened with the cablebox though the meter's they have used says everthing is fine.

Note that their cablecard in the Brooklyn office they are having the same issue I'm told but they do not have a Tivo.

I've talked to Tivo and all they say is for me to tell CV to put an amp on the line. LOL

As of this morning the problem isn't fixed but I've been told by the Brooklyn Office they will continue to work on the issue and contact me with updates.

FWIW


----------



## Brighton Line

Brighton Line said:


> As of this morning the problem isn't fixed but I've been told by the Brooklyn Office they will continue to work on the issue and contact me with updates.


Not to quote myself but the wife just called saying Cablevision Tech that was at our house just called and asked her to check 704/705/711 to see if we still had the issue.

When I checked this morning at 5am we had it but at 9am when she checked all three channels were fine.

The CV Tech did not allude as to what the isssue was but as of 9am this morning we do not have any pixelation on Cablevision 704/705/711 any more.

Thank goodness.


----------



## madscientist

Sooo, I'm having a problem that I hope is my HD, although it's less than a year old. I took the drive out of my TiVo HD (this is a replacement WD Green 1TB drive I put in last May, when my stock TiVo HD died on me after 15 months) and grabbed the WD Lifeguard ISO as recommended in various places, burned it to a CD, hooked up my WD drive to that system, rebooted.

It booted off the CD (I know how to create a bootable CD), but then I got a blank screen for about 2 minutes, then it said:



Code:


Unable to locate the License Agreement file, DLGLICE.TXT.
Make sure that the License and Agreement is in the same path as DLGDIAG5.EXE

and I got an A: prompt. Doing "dir" I can see that that file is right there. Running DLGDIAG5 from the prompt gives me the same behavior. Re-burning the ISO gives me the same behavior. Using Google I can found tons of other people reporting the same problem over the last 3-4 years but none of them have any solution.

Has this actually ever worked for anyone here? Does anyone have any idea how to work around this or how to handle it differently?


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Brighton Line said:


> I've had a cable tech and even a CV enginer over to the apartment as I'm getting pixelation on those channels on both of my Tivo's (Tivo HD and Tivo Series 3 (Original)) as well as on clear QAM on my TV when I move the coax over to it.
> I've removed all but two splitters in the apartment (one where it comes thru the wall for the modem and one between bedroom/living room). The signal on those channels drop to low 80's and lower and even the SNR goes to zero when the pixelation happens.
> CV has been to the apartment THREE times with various meters and even a cablebox and yes the pixelation has hapened with the cablebox though the meter's they have used says everthing is fine.


Perhaps the keyword here is *apartment.* You're all crowded together, and who knows how clean the cable distribution setup is, especially if its a few decades old.

Cable is, to a large extent, a shared medium. Much different than FiOS, which provides a pristine signal from the central office to an ONT and then from the ONT to a single residence.

So maybe some bozo in another apartment has done something stupid. Like hooking up an RF modulator onto the cable? Or one of 100 other ways your neighbor can interfere with your signal. Foo. I'm sure its possible for CV to detect this interference, but probably not with the equipment they normally bring with them.

Out in the suburbs fortunately cable has a "tap" architecture to every house. A tap is an asymmetric splitter where most of the signal continues and only a very small fraction is sent to a given house. This also works in reverse. Any "garbage" done to a signal in a house is greatly attenuated by the tap before it can get to any nearby house. Not as clean as FiOS, but overall, cable works pretty well out here.


----------



## dlfl

madscientist said:


> Sooo, I'm having a problem that I hope is my HD, although it's less than a year old. I took the drive out of my TiVo HD (this is a replacement WD Green 1TB drive I put in last May, when my stock TiVo HD died on me after 15 months) and grabbed the WD Lifeguard ISO as recommended in various places, burned it to a CD, hooked up my WD drive to that system, rebooted.
> 
> It booted off the CD (I know how to create a bootable CD), but then I got a blank screen for about 2 minutes, then it said:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Unable to locate the License Agreement file, DLGLICE.TXT.
> Make sure that the License and Agreement is in the same path as DLGDIAG5.EXE
> 
> and I got an A: prompt. Doing "dir" I can see that that file is right there. Running DLGDIAG5 from the prompt gives me the same behavior. Re-burning the ISO gives me the same behavior. Using Google I can found tons of other people reporting the same problem over the last 3-4 years but none of them have any solution.
> 
> Has this actually ever worked for anyone here? Does anyone have any idea how to work around this or how to handle it differently?


Why not use the Windows version of the WD diagnostics? Just download it, connect your drive and run.


----------



## madscientist

First, because I don't run Windows at home. All my systems run GNU/Linux. Second, it didn't work; I actually do have one Windows option: my current system I bought last fall came with Windows and when I installed Linux, rather than reformat the entire drive, I reduced the size of the Windows partition way down and installed Linux on the bulk of the drive. So, to try this out I did boot that Windows partition (I'd never actually even tried it since I reduced the partition the day I received the system, but it did work--yay Linux!). However the Windows version of this couldn't see the drive: after I opened it, there was no WD hardware available to test listed in the application even though using the Windows device manager I could see the drive was there and working.

Anyway, I did figure out a work around to this. I noticed that my cd/dvd player was on SATA, and I wondered if maybe the WD diags software couldn't handle it (even though it's not a driver problem: it was able to run the diags tool and after I got the A: prompt back I could "DIR", print the license file it was looking for, retry the diags program, etc.).

So, I had an old USB CD/DVD player and I plugged that in, put the CD in it, fixed the boot order in the BIOS to boot off of that first, and voila! Worked like a charm, first time.

The "bad" news? Even the WD drive extended test, after running for almost 4 hours, showed zero errors. So, my issue doesn't appear to be a drive problem.


----------



## Marylander

Hello,
I got my TivoHD in December 2008 and recently started seeing severe pixelation and audio drops in December. I called Tivo and was told it was a signal problem and to get an attenuator and contact my cable company.

At the time, my signal strength as displayed on the Tivo's DVR Diagnostics screen was 100 and would often fluctuate between 0 and 100.

Since then, Comcast has come by several times. The techs have replaced the CableCard, splitters and have adjusted the signal at the tap. It appears that now the signal strength fluctuates between 87 and 93, the SNR is between 34 and 36, but the RS corrected and uncorrected number in the thousands and steadily climb.

On the last visit, the techs connected a cable box next to the splitter with theTivo and tuned them both to the same channel (each was displayed on its own television). The television with the cable box showed no pixelation and the box reported an RS uncorrected of 0. The television with the Tivo showed pixelation and the Tivo reported an RS uncorrected within the thousands (and climbing) within a few minutes. We swapped the televisions and witnessed the same issue. The tech then connected the Tivo directly to the tap and we still saw the same pixelation with high numbers of RS uncorrected errors.

The pixelation occurs on all channels and is not limited to just the HD ones and occurs when recording or watching live TV (though I understand even live TV is always recording). I do have a 1TB My DVR Expander, which I got in June, and I replaced the eSATA cable last month with the one recommended on this forum. I have run Kickstarts 57, 58 and 54, none of which reported any errors.

I'm not sure what else I can try. Unfortunately, I don't have access to another Tivo to test it out. Comcast says it's a problem with the Tivo and Tivo says it's a signal problem with Comcast.

The last Tivo representative I spoke with offered to swap out the Tivo, but insists I will experience the same issues with another Tivo.

Can any experts weigh in with some advice? I don't mind swapping the Tivo, but if it's likely not the Tivo unit that's the problem, I'd prefer not to lose my shows.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Marylander said:


> Hello,
> I got my TivoHD in December 2008 and recently started seeing severe pixelation and audio drops in December. I called Tivo and was told it was a signal problem and to get an attenuator and contact my cable company.
> 
> At the time, my signal strength as displayed on the Tivo's DVR Diagnostics screen was 100 and would often fluctuate between 0 and 100.
> 
> Since then, Comcast has come by several times. The techs have replaced the CableCard, splitters and have adjusted the signal at the tap. It appears that now the signal strength fluctuates between 87 and 93, the SNR is between 34 and 36, but the RS corrected and uncorrected number in the thousands and steadily climb.
> 
> On the last visit, the techs connected a cable box next to the splitter with theTivo and tuned them both to the same channel (each was displayed on its own television). The television with the cable box showed no pixelation and the box reported an RS uncorrected of 0. The television with the Tivo showed pixelation and the Tivo reported an RS uncorrected within the thousands (and climbing) within a few minutes. We swapped the televisions and witnessed the same issue. The tech then connected the Tivo directly to the tap and we still saw the same pixelation with high numbers of RS uncorrected errors.
> 
> The pixelation occurs on all channels and is not limited to just the HD ones and occurs when recording or watching live TV (though I understand even live TV is always recording). I do have a 1TB My DVR Expander, which I got in June, and I replaced the eSATA cable last month with the one recommended on this forum. I have run Kickstarts 57, 58 and 54, none of which reported any errors.
> 
> I'm not sure what else I can try. Unfortunately, I don't have access to another Tivo to test it out. Comcast says it's a problem with the Tivo and Tivo says it's a signal problem with Comcast.
> 
> The last Tivo representative I spoke with offered to swap out the Tivo, but insists I will experience the same issues with another Tivo.
> 
> Can any experts weigh in with some advice? I don't mind swapping the Tivo, but if it's likely not the Tivo unit that's the problem, I'd prefer not to lose my shows.


The RS Uncorrected numbers climbing indicate that the TiVo tuner is having a tough time locking onto the signal. Did they happen to tell you what the actual signal level going to TiVo was (in dBmV?). For a THD, 34 is a little low for SNR but should be fine. My THD shows signal strength of 100 with 36 db SNR and is fine. Can you set up an antenna and rerun guided setup and check out performance of OTA? That might help understand what is going on. Is the signal strength and SNR 'stable' as it is now or is it fluctuating up and down randomly?

If I had to speculate based on the info provided, I would tend to agree with Comcast and put the issue on TiVo. The DVR expander and cable have nothing to do with this since clearly the demodulator is reporting RS errors in the tuner output.


----------



## Marylander

SCSIRAID said:


> The RS Uncorrected numbers climbing indicate that the TiVo tuner is having a tough time locking onto the signal. Did they happen to tell you what the actual signal level going to TiVo was (in dBmV?). For a THD, 34 is a little low for SNR but should be fine. My THD shows signal strength of 100 with 36 db SNR and is fine. Can you set up an antenna and rerun guided setup and check out performance of OTA? That might help understand what is going on. Is the signal strength and SNR 'stable' as it is now or is it fluctuating up and down randomly?
> 
> If I had to speculate based on the info provided, I would tend to agree with Comcast and put the issue on TiVo. The DVR expander and cable have nothing to do with this since clearly the demodulator is reporting RS errors in the tuner output.


Thanks for the fast reply.

I have the work order from Comcast and for Ch. 3, it says 14.4 for TAP, 13.4 for G.B. and 6.6 for SET.

I set up an antenna and I only get a strong signal for one channel (Ch. 22). After 15 minutes tuned to that channel, the Tivo was showing a signal strength of between 81 and 85, an SNR of 27-28, RS Uncorrected of 570 and RS Corrected of 2,070.

During the last visit from Comcast, I had two supervisors and two lead techs here troubleshooting. I put them on the phone with the Tivo rep who insisted an attenuator was the answer to all of my problems. The Comcast tech tried to explain that if they lowered the SNR with an attenuator, it would cause more problems.

The explanation from the Tivo rep of why the Tivo showed errors when the cable box didn't is that the Tivo is extremely sensitive and needs a clean signal that is neither too strong nor too weak to operate properly.

Should I go ahead and exchange the Tivo or are there other steps I should try first?


----------



## SCSIRAID

Marylander said:


> Thanks for the fast reply.
> 
> I have the work order from Comcast and for Ch. 3, it says 14.4 for TAP, 13.4 for G.B. and 6.6 for SET.
> 
> I set up an antenna and I only get a strong signal for one channel (Ch. 22). After 15 minutes tuned to that channel, the Tivo was showing a signal strength of between 81 and 85, an SNR of 27-28, RS Uncorrected of 570 and RS Corrected of 2,070.
> 
> During the last visit from Comcast, I had two supervisors and two lead techs here troubleshooting. I put them on the phone with the Tivo rep who insisted an attenuator was the answer to all of my problems. The Comcast tech tried to explain that if they lowered the SNR with an attenuator, it would cause more problems.
> 
> The explanation from the Tivo rep of why the Tivo showed errors when the cable box didn't is that the Tivo is extremely sensitive and needs a clean signal that is neither too strong nor too weak to operate properly.
> 
> Should I go ahead and exchange the Tivo or are there other steps I should try first?


Well, the fact that you are also getting RS Uncorrected OTA tends to say its the TiVo... but its not definitive. One more thing I would try... Take your TiVo over to a friends house and hook it up there and see what happens. If you still get all the breakups and RS Uncorrecteds, then I would 'trade it in for a new one'.


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## amatheu

Most of time the pixelations are from the cable co. not your equipment. your tivo was recording in the moment the cable start pixelations, I saw in my cable but I was not recording in that moments, most in HD channels


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## gdomeier

Has anyone noticed they get pixilation when recording two hd shows at the same time?


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## SCSIRAID

gdomeier said:


> Has anyone noticed they get pixilation when recording two hd shows at the same time?


Nope... I do it all the time and have never seen that. There is a known problem with pixelation on SDV channels though.


----------



## dlfl

gdomeier said:


> Has anyone noticed they get pixilation when recording two hd shows at the same time?


The most likely cause of this is a failing hard drive. There shouldn't be any difference whether you're recording the two channels or just have them tuned, as the TiVo is always "recording" the tuned channels to a 30 min buffer on disk anyway.


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## jonja

On my Tivo HD, I get a lot of pixelation on just a couple of channels: SyFy HD and Cartoon Network HD. On Charter here in CT, I believe both are SDV channels. SyFy is almost watchable (and I don't just mean 'Mansquito III: Death from the Cesspool').

I have checked SyFy live and still see pixelation, exactly the same as what I see recorded...and I never see any errors (corrected or uncorrected) while it is live. I keep the signal strength between 87 and 93 on most channels, and SNR is usually around 35dB (never higher). 

I don't get pixelation on any other channels. On those channels where I see a few errors (such as Home & Garden), the picture is perfect. Go figure.

Last November, I replaced the internal hard drive to help deal with this (a 1TB Western Digital, *exact* same hard drive used in Tivo XL) and got rid of my DVR Expander, but other than spending a lot of time and money, it did nothing for this issue. 

Two days ago, I called Charter and they replaced the Tuner Adapter just in case. Pixelation is still going strong on SyFy. The technician swears it is not in the source, and I have been seeing this problem since last June when I first got the Adapter.


----------



## SCSIRAID

jonja said:


> On my Tivo HD, I get a lot of pixelation on just a couple of channels: SyFy HD and Cartoon Network HD. On Charter here in CT, I believe both are SDV channels. SyFy is almost watchable (and I don't just mean 'Mansquito III: Death from the Cesspool').
> 
> I have checked SyFy live and still see pixelation, exactly the same as what I see recorded...and I never see any errors (corrected or uncorrected) while it is live. I keep the signal strength between 87 and 93 on most channels, and SNR is usually around 35dB (never higher).
> 
> I don't get pixelation on any other channels. On those channels where I see a few errors (such as Home & Garden), the picture is perfect. Go figure.
> 
> Last November, I replaced the internal hard drive to help deal with this (a 1TB Western Digital, *exact* same hard drive used in Tivo XL) and got rid of my DVR Expander, but other than spending a lot of time and money, it did nothing for this issue.
> 
> Two days ago, I called Charter and they replaced the Tuner Adapter just in case. Pixelation is still going strong on SyFy. The technician swears it is not in the source, and I have been seeing this problem since last June when I first got the Adapter.


Wow... Deja Vu..... Sounds familiar to me.... Have you checked it on a TWC box instead of a TiVo? Probably none there... right? Welcome to the club


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## gdomeier

It always seems to happen during survivor. Do you know if there is a hd test util I can run on my tivo?



dlfl said:


> The most likely cause of this is a failing hard drive. There shouldn't be any difference whether you're recording the two channels or just have them tuned, as the TiVo is always "recording" the tuned channels to a 30 min buffer on disk anyway.


----------



## dlfl

gdomeier said:


> It always seems to happen during survivor. Do you know if there is a hd test util I can run on my tivo?


Yes, **here** is the official unofficial guide to the "kickstart" tests which are the only ones you can run on the TiVo. Kickstart 54 is a drive test but it doesn't find every possible problem. Beyond these tests, you would have to remove the drive from the TiVo and run mfr's extended tests on it.

If it is a failing drive, it will probably get "worser faster" so you will soon know. If you need to replace the drive and are past warranty, see the Drive Expansion sticky thread at top of this forum or see DVRupgrade.com or Weaknees.com.


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## Phantom Gremlin

SCSIRAID said:


> Wow... Deja Vu..... Sounds familiar to me.... Have you checked it on a TWC box instead of a TiVo? Probably none there... right? Welcome to the club


I second this suggestion. Usually a cable company will be willing to give you a "free" DVR for a number of months. It would be very interesting to hear if that box has the problem.


----------



## jonja

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I second this suggestion. Usually a cable company will be willing to give you a "free" DVR for a number of months. It would be very interesting to hear if that box has the problem.


I seriously doubt Charter DVR customers have this problem. If I found, as I suspect I would, their DVR works fine, it just tells me the problem isn't in the source.

The fact this only happens on a couple of channels, and SDV only, with no signal issues or errors and everything is properly attenuated, makes it clear this isn't a general Tivo hardware issue either. Most channels are flawless; only SDV channels are pixelated. Also, I swapped hard drives and it made no difference other than vastly increasing my capacity.  Not that I have anything against that. And frankly, it doesn't explain why all of the other channels are perfect.

It would be useful if I had another Tivo HD with another Tuning adapter to compare it to. But I suspect I am just another victim of the SDV pixelation bug that others have alluded to. Does anyone more information on this topic?


----------



## SCSIRAID

jonja said:


> I seriously doubt Charter DVR customers have this problem. If I found, as I suspect I would, their DVR works fine, it just tells me the problem isn't in the source.
> 
> The fact this only happens on a couple of channels, and SDV only, with no signal issues or errors and everything is properly attenuated, makes it clear this isn't a general Tivo hardware issue either. Most channels are flawless; only SDV channels are pixelated. Also, I swapped hard drives and it made no difference other than vastly increasing my capacity.  Not that I have anything against that. And frankly, it doesn't explain why all of the other channels are perfect.
> 
> It would be useful if I had another Tivo HD with another Tuning adapter to compare it to. But I suspect I am just another victim of the SDV pixelation bug that others have alluded to. Does anyone more information on this topic?


Here in Raleigh, we have proven that the SDV pixelation issue is due to programs being added to or removed from the Transport Stream. Whenever the TS changes, TiVo pixelates/macroblocks (if the stream you are watching is encrypted). Turn off encryption and the problem disappears. Linear channels are 'static' and do not exhibit the problem. TWC tells me that TiVo understands the cause of the problem but stopped short of saying when or if it would be fixed.


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## Max Camber

I just received a call back from TiVo this morning and can confirm that they are working on a fix for the SDV macroblocking/pixelation issue. As usual they will not give any sort of time frame for when it will be released.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Max Camber said:


> I just received a call back from TiVo this morning and can confirm that they are working on a fix for the SDV macroblocking/pixelation issue. As usual they will not give any sort of time frame for when it will be released.


:up:  Excellent news... confirms what TWC told me.


----------



## Carlos_E

Brighton Line said:


> I've been working with the Brooklyn Cablebvision of NYC office on the issue of pixelation on 704/705/711. I've had a cable tech and even a CV enginer over to the apartment as I'm getting pixelation on those channels on both of my Tivo's (Tivo HD and Tivo Series 3 (Original)) as well as on clear QAM on my TV when I move the coax over to it.
> I've removed all but two splitters in the apartment (one where it comes thru the wall for the modem and one between bedroom/living room). The signal on those channels drop to low 80's and lower and even the SNR goes to zero when the pixelation happens.
> CV has been to the apartment THREE times with various meters and even a cablebox and yes the pixelation has hapened with the cablebox though the meter's they have used says everthing is fine.
> 
> Note that their cablecard in the Brooklyn office they are having the same issue I'm told but they do not have a Tivo.
> 
> I've talked to Tivo and all they say is for me to tell CV to put an amp on the line. LOL
> 
> As of this morning the problem isn't fixed but I've been told by the Brooklyn Office they will continue to work on the issue and contact me with updates.
> 
> FWIW


I also have cablevision in Brooklyn and I was having the same issue with channel 704 around the same date of your posts. I was encoding and trying to watch Heros and it was unwatchable. Pixelating every 10 seconds. I thought it was a problem with my DVR hard drive but now I see I wasn't the only person having the problem.


----------



## erb2000

Our Series 3 was working fine for two years. Suddenly, we couldn't tune a bunch of channels. It would say, "Searching for signal: Cable In". Other channels would be OK, but would have pixelation. Diagnostics showed increasing RS Uncorrected values. Cable company measured signal as fine. Tivo signal strengh is 95, S/N is 35. Some channels that would not tune initially, would tune if you first went to a working channel, and then back. We've been living with this problem for months. 

Now, suddenly today, we can't tune many more channels unless we first go to a working channel. Sometimes while watching it will drop the channel and say, "Searching for signal: Cable In."

Of course the cable box downstairs works fine. My wife wants to get rid of the Tivo and put in a cable box and Comcast DVR. Right. NFW.

I've done a bunch of tests with the physical cable, including eliminating all of the splitters. Also tried an amplifier. Nothing helped. I have not tried an attenuator. Do you think I should?

Any suggestions? At this point I wouldn't mind swapping the unit if I could get lifetime service transferred. Would Tivo do that for free? Is there a repair service that could fix this?


----------



## richsadams

erb2000 said:


> Our Series 3 was working fine for two years. <snip>


It sounds like classic cable card failure. It doesn't happen often, but it absolutely does happen. Sometimes a cable card firmware update will present problems (or fail) or they just die.

Are you seeing issues on both tuners or only one? If only one I'd say that cable card needs to be replaced. If on both I'd say that they either both need to be re-initialized/re-paired/re-hit by your cableco and if that doesn't work replacing them would be the next step.

You can try calling your cableco to have them do a few things over the phone (if they will) but a truck roll is probably in your future. There shouldn't be any charge if it turns out to be a cable card problem. If they do send a tech out ask them to have him/her bring more than a couple of replacement cable cards. There are stories here and on other forums about techs having to try up to a dozen or more cable cards before finding a couple that will work.

BTW you probably have two "S" (single-stream) cable cards. Most cableco's only have "M" (multi-stream) cable cards now. That's fine, but whichever they have you will still need two cable cards for your Series3.


----------



## nsk

I have Verizon Fios (along with TiVo HD) and am noticing similar issues for the last 6 weeks. I have already had Verizon come by twice; yesterday the tech stayed for five hours and pretty much replaced all Verizon accessories, installed a new M-card, but still the same issue. I have no issue with the music (rhapsody) or other video services such as netflix. However, I am reasonably convinced (after yesterday's extensive tests) the issue is solely restricted to acquiring the cable signal and that it is TiVo's fault. 

While I love the TiVo UI and especially the ability to transfer shows to my PC, I am pretty close to giving up. For the first time, I have Verizon's box and am thinking about canceling TiVo service.


----------



## erb2000

richsadams said:


> It sounds like classic cable card failure. It doesn't happen often, but it absolutely does happen. Sometimes a cable card firmware update will present problems (or fail) or they just die.
> 
> Are you seeing issues on both tuners or only one? If only one I'd say that cable card needs to be replaced. If on both I'd say that they either both need to be re-initialized/re-paired/re-hit by your cableco and if that doesn't work replacing them would be the next step.
> 
> You can try calling your cableco to have them do a few things over the phone (if they will) but a truck roll is probably in your future. There shouldn't be any charge if it turns out to be a cable card problem. If they do send a tech out ask them to have him/her bring more than a couple of replacement cable cards. There are stories here and on other forums about techs having to try up to a dozen or more cable cards before finding a couple that will work.
> 
> BTW you probably have two "S" (single-stream) cable cards. Most cableco's only have "M" (multi-stream) cable cards now. That's fine, but whichever they have you will still need two cable cards for your Series3.


Thanks for the quick reply, Rich. When this first started happening we did have both cable cards (S types) replaced (with M types). They paired fine and did not fix anything.

For this problem to be a cable card problem would mean that both cards went bad at the same time, and both the new cards are also bad.

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the cable cards control which channels are authorized. They are not tuners. When I try to change to a channel that is not authorized, I get a different message saying "not authorized".


----------



## richsadams

nsk said:


> I have Verizon Fios (along with TiVo HD) and am noticing similar issues for the last 6 weeks. I have already had Verizon come by twice; yesterday the tech stayed for five hours and pretty much replaced all Verizon accessories, installed a new M-card, but still the same issue. I have no issue with the music (rhapsody) or other video services such as netflix. However, I am reasonably convinced (after yesterday's extensive tests) the issue is solely restricted to acquiring the cable signal and that it is TiVo's fault.
> 
> While I love the TiVo UI and especially the ability to transfer shows to my PC, I am pretty close to giving up. For the first time, I have Verizon's box and am thinking about canceling TiVo service.


Yours sounds more like it could be a couple of things. Possibly a hard drive that's having I/O error correction issues or more likely a bad tuner.

Does it happen on both tuners? The best experiment to run is to watch the 'offending' channel live. As you start, go into DVR Diagnostics and check the RS Uncorrected and Corrected counts. As you watch and see events, go back into DVR Diags and recheck the RS counts. Post back what you see.

The RS Uncorrected counter counts how many times the demodulator was unable to recover any bit errors in the data in a packet. These events will likely result in pixelization/macroblocking or worst case a loss of picture and/or sound. If the counts remain zero then the problem is either 'upstream' from the hub (i.e. came from the provider) or something else is going on such as the mpeg PAT is changing.

I'd also call TiVo and discuss it with them. The first-line CSR will probably have you do a few tests but if they can't get it sorted they may hand you off to a second-level tech. They can view the logs for your account and/or may have some other suggestions. If there is something physically wrong with your TiVo they will offer to exchange it. An exchange is $49 if it's under the one-year labor warranty or $149 after that.

If it happens to be a failing hard drive you could run a few of the built-in diagnostic programs called "Kickstarts":

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

KS54 will run a SMART test to determine if there are any issues with your hard drive. It's not infallible but may be able to tell you if there is a problem. If it turns out to be a hard drive you can replace it yourself or go ahead and exchange it. If you're up for a DIY replacement you can upgrade it at the same time. All the info you need can be found by clicking on the link below my sig.

I forgot to ask but do you happen to have an eSATA drive attached to your TiVo? If so, there are some other things to check as well.

Hope that helps and let us know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

erb2000 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, Rich. When this first started happening we did have both cable cards (S types) replaced (with M types). They paired fine and did not fix anything.
> 
> For this problem to be a cable card problem would mean that both cards went bad at the same time, and both the new cards are also bad.
> 
> I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the cable cards control which channels are authorized. They are not tuners. When I try to change to a channel that is not authorized, I get a different message saying "not authorized".


Ah, got it. Although both cards could be problematic if a firmware update failed, that doesn't sound like what you're seeing then. Everything goes through the cable cards so they can be troublesome, but again, if they were replaced already, it's not likely if you're seeing issues with both tuners.

First I would get with TiVo and have them review everything with you. They may have you run some Kickstarts and try some other things. They should be able to help you narrow it down though. It may be a bad tuner after all or it's remotely possible (as with nsk's) a hard drive. Hard drives are the most common failure point (by far) but in your case it does sound like tuner issues.

Lifetime service is tied to your TiVo so you'd have to work with TiVo on a transfer. I'm not sure what they might want to do...they change what they'll do for folks now and then so you'd have to ask.

Out of curiosity, what happens if you disconnect your broadband connection (wireless or Ethernet)? Also what happens if you plug TiVo into a completely separate power outlet (w/o a surge protector or UPS, etc.)? Let us know if it clears up. It's rare, but there are some other things to look for if doing either one resolves things.

Let us know how things go and best of luck!


----------



## nsk

Thanks Rich for your help. I appreciate it very much. I went to one of the offending channels and checked the uncorrected and corrected counts (even as the picture was pixelating). They both show 0. The SNR is 36 and signal strength is 100.

I also forgot to add that the TiVo menu lags pretty badly at times and I have to wait a long time for response. Some times, I even see the menu while the TV picture still playing in the background (imagine TiVo background not being there and instead you have the regular TV playing; TiVo menu appears on top of the picture and I can navigate it).

I do have a myDVR expander (the one recommended by TiVo; with eSATA). I will check the Kickstart diagnostic and will report back tomorrow. Meanwhile, I would appreciate it if you could let me know the additional check-ups associated with eSATA.

Thanks once again,
Nanda



richsadams said:


> Yours sounds more like it could be a couple of things. Possibly a hard drive that's having I/O error correction issues or more likely a bad tuner.
> 
> Does it happen on both tuners? The best experiment to run is to watch the 'offending' channel live. As you start, go into DVR Diagnostics and check the RS Uncorrected and Corrected counts. As you watch and see events, go back into DVR Diags and recheck the RS counts. Post back what you see.
> 
> The RS Uncorrected counter counts how many times the demodulator was unable to recover any bit errors in the data in a packet. These events will likely result in pixelization/macroblocking or worst case a loss of picture and/or sound. If the counts remain zero then the problem is either 'upstream' from the hub (i.e. came from the provider) or something else is going on such as the mpeg PAT is changing.
> 
> I'd also call TiVo and discuss it with them. The first-line CSR will probably have you do a few tests but if they can't get it sorted they may hand you off to a second-level tech. They can view the logs for your account and/or may have some other suggestions. If there is something physically wrong with your TiVo they will offer to exchange it. An exchange is $49 if it's under the one-year labor warranty or $149 after that.
> 
> If it happens to be a failing hard drive you could run a few of the built-in diagnostic programs called "Kickstarts":
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2
> 
> KS54 will run a SMART test to determine if there are any issues with your hard drive. It's not infallible but may be able to tell you if there is a problem. If it turns out to be a hard drive you can replace it yourself or go ahead and exchange it. If you're up for a DIY replacement you can upgrade it at the same time. All the info you need can be found by clicking on the link below my sig.
> 
> I forgot to ask but do you happen to have an eSATA drive attached to your TiVo? If so, there are some other things to check as well.
> 
> Hope that helps and let us know how it goes.


----------



## richsadams

nsk said:


> Thanks Rich for your help. I appreciate it very much. I went to one of the offending channels and checked the uncorrected and corrected counts (even as the picture was pixelating). They both show 0. The SNR is 36 and signal strength is 100.
> 
> I also forgot to add that the TiVo menu lags pretty badly at times and I have to wait a long time for response. Some times, I even see the menu while the TV picture still playing in the background (imagine TiVo background not being there and instead you have the regular TV playing; TiVo menu appears on top of the picture and I can navigate it).
> 
> I do have a myDVR expander (the one recommended by TiVo; with eSATA). I will check the Kickstart diagnostic and will report back tomorrow. Meanwhile, I would appreciate it if you could let me know the additional check-ups associated with eSATA.
> 
> Thanks once again,
> Nanda


From your further description and the fact that you have a My DVR Expander I'd say the issue is more than likely the Expander. The additional symptoms are very much in the hard drive problem camp and the Expanders are becoming notorious for problems after 12 to 18 months. Have a look at this post for more about troubleshooting the Expander:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

The next step is to disconnect and properly divorce the Expander. Chances are things will return to normal.

Let us know how things go.


----------



## SCSIRAID

nsk said:


> Thanks Rich for your help. I appreciate it very much. I went to one of the offending channels and checked the uncorrected and corrected counts (even as the picture was pixelating). They both show 0. The SNR is 36 and signal strength is 100.
> 
> I also forgot to add that the TiVo menu lags pretty badly at times and I have to wait a long time for response. Some times, I even see the menu while the TV picture still playing in the background (imagine TiVo background not being there and instead you have the regular TV playing; TiVo menu appears on top of the picture and I can navigate it).
> 
> I do have a myDVR expander (the one recommended by TiVo; with eSATA). I will check the Kickstart diagnostic and will report back tomorrow. Meanwhile, I would appreciate it if you could let me know the additional check-ups associated with eSATA.
> 
> Thanks once again,
> Nanda


Is the offending channel an SDV channel? There is a known issue with SDV channels pixilating that TiVo is said to be working on.


----------



## nsk

Thanks for the help. I just unplugged the Expander (properly) and at first glance, it seems like the issue has been resolved. I will monitor it for another few hours just to be sure! If the expander is the problem, does replacing the eSata cable solve the problem? How do I figure out where the issue is (enclosure, hard disk, cable)... I tried doing the Hard Disk diagnostic (as per your previous post) procedure during start-up, but nothing happened; it went through the usual splash screen.

What options would you recommend (including internal upgrade) as I would definitely need more space. Thanks once again for your time. I appreciate it very much.

------------------------

Update: It has been a few hours and no problems at all! Thanks for helping isolate the problem. I also looked at the link for TiVo upgrade through your signature. I am thinking about Internal TiVo upgrade. Do you think it is worth checking with a different eSATA cable first? Thanks

--------------------------



richsadams said:


> From your further description and the fact that you have a My DVR Expander I'd say the issue is more than likely the Expander. The additional symptoms are very much in the hard drive problem camp and the Expanders are becoming notorious for problems after 12 to 18 months. Have a look at this post for more about troubleshooting the Expander:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444
> 
> The next step is to disconnect and properly divorce the Expander. Chances are things will return to normal.
> 
> Let us know how things go.


----------



## nsk

Thanks SCSIRAID. I do not think it is the SDV channels as I have FioS. It appears that the problem is due to my DVR expander (I will monitor it over the next few hours to be sure). Thanks for your time.



SCSIRAID said:


> Is the offending channel an SDV channel? There is a known issue with SDV channels pixilating that TiVo is said to be working on.


----------



## SCSIRAID

nsk said:


> Thanks SCSIRAID. I do not think it is the SDV channels as I have FioS. It appears that the problem is due to my DVR expander (I will monitor it over the next few hours to be sure). Thanks for your time.


Agree... I didnt catch the fact that you have FiOS.... Hopefully you have found the problem.


----------



## richsadams

nsk said:


> What options would you recommend (including internal upgrade) as I would definitely need more space. Thanks once again for your time. I appreciate it very much.
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Update: It has been a few hours and no problems at all! Thanks for helping isolate the problem. I also looked at the link for TiVo upgrade through your signature. I am thinking about Internal TiVo upgrade. Do you think it is worth checking with a different eSATA cable first? Thanks
> 
> --------------------------


You could give a replacement eSATA cable a try. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10. If that doesn't do the trick then I'd recommend an internal hard drive upgrade. You sound pretty savvy and shouldn't have any problem with a DIY upgrade as long as you follow the directions in the FAQ.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## nsk

Thanks. I have ordered the eSATA cable; If it doesn't help, I will get the internal drive replacement (also gives me time to see what is happening on March 2). Thanks very much for your help.



richsadams said:


> You could give a replacement eSATA cable a try. The recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable is less than $10. If that doesn't do the trick then I'd recommend an internal hard drive upgrade. You sound pretty savvy and shouldn't have any problem with a DIY upgrade as long as you follow the directions in the FAQ.
> 
> Let us know how it goes!


----------



## jonja

Max Camber said:


> I just received a call back from TiVo this morning and can confirm that they are working on a fix for the SDV macroblocking/pixelation issue. As usual they will not give any sort of time frame for when it will be released.


My only concern is that Tivo may treat this as a TWC issue only and the fix may not fix my problems, which are identical but on Charter. I am in a very small market in CT and doubt there are enough Tivo customers for Charter CT for this to show up as even a blip.

(If you recall from past posts, I receive pixelation/macroblocking on only a couple channels which are SDV only, such as SyFy .My signal strength is in the 87-93 range, 35 Db, and with NO RS errors on the SDV channels.)


----------



## SCSIRAID

jonja said:


> My only concern is that Tivo may treat this as a TWC issue only and the fix may not fix my problems, which are identical but on Charter. I am in a very small market in CT and doubt there are enough Tivo customers for Charter CT for this to show up as even a blip.
> 
> (If you recall from past posts, I receive pixelation/macroblocking on only a couple channels which are SDV only, such as SyFy .My signal strength is in the 87-93 range, 35 Db, and with NO RS errors on the SDV channels.)


I would expect a fix to cover all cable providers as its a mpeg issue and they all do SDV basically the same way. All we now is a fix...


----------



## LockRob

I'm wondering how the release of the new model will impact the need for work on this issue...
Does anyone know if the Premier has the same SDV pixelization issue? Will Tivo continue(?) to work on this issue? I was hoping we would see some movement on this by now, and am kind of surprised that Tivo still believes that people will invest in a device that does not give watchable recordings of SDV channels. I can't tell you how often I end up with a recording that makes me guess at every third word, and looks like a piece of cubist art, for 5 seconds out of every 3 minutes.
It's nice that they have worked on the search feature, but until they fix the recording quality issues, I will be telling everyone I see to go the HTPC route.
And I certainly won't be upgrading or recommending upgrades.


----------



## richsadams

LockRob said:


> Does anyone know if the Premier has the same SDV pixelization issue?


Since the Premiere won't be released for another month or so...I don't think anyone knows. Good question though. It'll be interesting to see if the Premier's architecture and/or software has overcome some of these things. We've never experienced the problem on our TiVo HD (other than the occasional broadcast/signal corruption plus we don't have SDV of course) but it's got to be terribly frustrating. If they do find a cure hopefully it will be backward compatible.


----------



## Luis214

Hello all, just had a quick question and was looking for some suggestions. Here are the details.

I have a Series 3 Tivo HD with hdmi connections (monoprice cables). Comcast is my provider. It is out of warranty.

I've been having a few issues.
1. When I turn the tv on, I sometimes get the grey screen that says "hdmi cable not permitted". This goes away if I turn the tv off and on, but it's probably 1 out of every 10 times I turn on the tv that this happens. I ended up sending my tv in have it overhauled/checked for other things and they didn't see anything wrong with the hdmi port.

2. I'm getting a lot of intermittent pixels showing up while watching recorded shows.

3. The sound cuts out after I skip a commercial and I have to rewind 10/20 seconds or so to get it back.

I did a little homework and saw that running the "kickstart" program may help. Any other thoughts? Will Tivo Customer service walk me through this or be able to help?


----------



## Dabreeze

What is a exceptable number for uncorrected RS Errors ? Yesterday, I finally removed my 19db attenuators. I do have the D software and noticed a increase in these RS numbers. Although, I don't see any discernable pixalation on any channels. I'm having 1 M-Card installed today by Verizon replacing the 2-SCards. Is their anything I should look out for or possibly bring to the Tech's attention ?

Thanks.


----------



## Dabreeze

Update on my Verizon Tech visit today. The Tech was right ontime. He checked out my signals and found that I was off some bytes so he checked the wiring and the problem was a splitter which he replaced. He took out my 2 SCards and replaced with Moto M-card. After the initiation process and authorization, which went well I checked the RS Corrected and unconnected number and they were at O. The SNR was 38DB and the software version was updated to 11.0g. There was no truck roll fee and no pixalation anywhere on any channels. Enjoying the Final Four coverage. GO WVU. 

ALL'S PERFECT...HAPPY CAMPER ! Thank you Shawn !

Happy Easter !


----------



## denialmark

Now that DirecTV has stopped manufacturing the HR10-250 HD TiVo, our customers are looking for ways to keep their units up and running. While these units have been very solid performers, with many are over three years old, some are beginning to exhibit problems.
This guide covers some general TiVo problems, and problems specific to this model unit.


----------



## jeremynkay

Hi all,
I have a TivoHD on Comcast cable (boston area), with a Motorola M-card that was installed relatively painlessly about six months ago. No external hard drive. Service has been flawless for that whole 6 months -- until Sunday, when I suddenly started getting severe pixelation and sound stuttering (see below for details). I've been reading this thread carefully and I suspect that it's due to cable rather than Tivo (for reasons I'll get into below in just a sec) but I'd just like to have some input from you expert-type folks on whether that's true. The cable tech is coming tomorrow, and I suspect he will try to blame this on the Tivo if he encounters any problems in fixing it... I want to know if I have the right to insist that the Tivo is blameless!

So, with that preface, here's my symptoms and what I've done:

The problem:
- Pixelation and sound skipping so severe that TV is unwatchable.
- Happens on SD and HD cable channels.
- Happens equally badly on all affected channels
- Is limited to cable networks - SD and HD versions of ABC, NBC, Fox, etc are fine.
- I have an antenna, and OTA is fine.
- Is limited to live tv -- recordings are fine.
- The exact pattern of macroblocks and digital distortion is preserved if I record something or rewind live TV.

Here's what I've done:
- Checked for hard drive issues with Kickstart 54 (SMART and overnight test).
- Checked for signal strength: Tivo diagnostics gives me signal strength 100 and SNR 37-38 on all channels (affected and unaffected)
- Checked for errors: RS uncorrected error rate is 0 even after a long time on an affected channel.
- Normally my cable signal is not split at all. I had a couple splitters lying around and I installed both (in series) in case attenuation might help. No effect. Not sure the exact attenuation that this achieved. The readings in Tivo diagnostics were unchanged.
- Unfortunately I don't know what the signal strength & SNR were before this all started -- never had a reason to look.

My conclusions from all this -- please let me know if you disagree:
-I doubt it's the hard drive because of the fact that it operates normally on certain channels, and because the exact pattern of distortion is getting recorded and played back. I read somewhere on this thread that if the drive were going bad, the patterns would be different when playing back the same video.
- It doesn't sound like a problem with the signal being too strong because the RS error rate is 0

So my questions for you:
- Any ideas what's going on? 
- Can I insist to the cable tech that the hard drive is ok?
- Any suggestions for things for the cable tech to look at? I guess I should mention that I live in a large apartment building so the cable setup might be different than most people on this thread.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## SCSIRAID

jeremynkay said:


> Hi all,
> I have a TivoHD on Comcast cable (boston area), with a Motorola M-card that was installed relatively painlessly about six months ago. No external hard drive. Service has been flawless for that whole 6 months -- until Sunday, when I suddenly started getting severe pixelation and sound stuttering (see below for details). I've been reading this thread carefully and I suspect that it's due to cable rather than Tivo (for reasons I'll get into below in just a sec) but I'd just like to have some input from you expert-type folks on whether that's true. The cable tech is coming tomorrow, and I suspect he will try to blame this on the Tivo if he encounters any problems in fixing it... I want to know if I have the right to insist that the Tivo is blameless!
> 
> So, with that preface, here's my symptoms and what I've done:
> 
> The problem:
> - Pixelation and sound skipping so severe that TV is unwatchable.
> - Happens on SD and HD cable channels.
> - Happens equally badly on all affected channels
> - Is limited to cable networks - SD and HD versions of ABC, NBC, Fox, etc are fine.
> - I have an antenna, and OTA is fine.
> - Is limited to live tv -- recordings are fine.
> - The exact pattern of macroblocks and digital distortion is preserved if I record something or rewind live TV.
> 
> Here's what I've done:
> - Checked for hard drive issues with Kickstart 54 (SMART and overnight test).
> - Checked for signal strength: Tivo diagnostics gives me signal strength 100 and SNR 37-38 on all channels (affected and unaffected)
> - Checked for errors: RS uncorrected error rate is 0 even after a long time on an affected channel.
> - Normally my cable signal is not split at all. I had a couple splitters lying around and I installed both (in series) in case attenuation might help. No effect. Not sure the exact attenuation that this achieved. The readings in Tivo diagnostics were unchanged.
> - Unfortunately I don't know what the signal strength & SNR were before this all started -- never had a reason to look.
> 
> My conclusions from all this -- please let me know if you disagree:
> -I doubt it's the hard drive because of the fact that it operates normally on certain channels, and because the exact pattern of distortion is getting recorded and played back. I read somewhere on this thread that if the drive were going bad, the patterns would be different when playing back the same video.
> - It doesn't sound like a problem with the signal being too strong because the RS error rate is 0
> 
> So my questions for you:
> - Any ideas what's going on?
> - Can I insist to the cable tech that the hard drive is ok?
> - Any suggestions for things for the cable tech to look at? I guess I should mention that I live in a large apartment building so the cable setup might be different than most people on this thread.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


This statement concerns me.... "Is limited to live tv -- recordings are fine.". I dont see how that can be true.

Do you have a regular cable box you can watch at the same time and see if the same channel exhibits the same problem? You might also try hitting the 7 second 'instant reply' button on TiVo remote when the problem occurs. I have seen issues with stuttering where simply jumping back 7 seconds solves them. With RS Uncorrected count = 0 it certainly doesnt appear to be a signal issue.


----------



## jeremynkay

SCSIRAID said:


> This statement concerns me.... "Is limited to live tv -- recordings are fine.". I dont see how that can be true.


Um, I meant recordings made before this problem started... sorry for not being clear. Recordings made after the problems started look bad. This includes the cache of live tv... so when I hit the 7-second rewind button it looks just as crappy as when it first came through. Including the blocked-out portions of the screen appearing in exactly the same place. So, sadly, the rewind button isn't going to fix this.

Unfortunately, I don't have a cable box I can use to test the cable signal separate from the Tivo.

I guess I'll see what the repair tech says tomorrow...


----------



## SCSIRAID

jeremynkay said:


> Um, I meant recordings made before this problem started... sorry for not being clear. Recordings made after the problems started look bad. This includes the cache of live tv... so when I hit the 7-second rewind button it looks just as crappy as when it first came through. Including the blocked-out portions of the screen appearing in exactly the same place. So, sadly, the rewind button isn't going to fix this.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't have a cable box I can use to test the cable signal separate from the Tivo.
> 
> I guess I'll see what the repair tech says tomorrow...


Ok.. that makes sense now. Since the SNR and RS Uncorrected count is good, I would probably suspect the cablecard. This lines up with the fact that the only impacted channels are encrypted digital.


----------



## jeremynkay

SCSIRAID said:


> Ok.. that makes sense now. Since the SNR and RS Uncorrected count is good, I would probably suspect the cablecard. This lines up with the fact that the only impacted channels are encrypted digital.


Your suspicion turned out to be spot on. Cable tech came today... swapped the cablecard for a new one... everything fixed. Thanks so much for your advice!


----------



## wifi-er

I too have been having issues with the HD 3 and on many channels not just HD. I've had the cable company replace the cable cards and it has not helped. My series 2 (5 years old) is still perfect but this machine started having issues after 1-1/2 years. I've gotten the new premiere Series 4 (which will be delivered today), and opted for the extended warranty given the issues I've had with the HD 3.


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## willv28

I got my tuning adapter today. Already I notice pixelation and brief drops on some channels. I always saw brief pixelation at times on these channels without the adapter. But it never froze or tunes out. Pixelation on these channels would happen on ALL devices, both my TiVo and cable co owned DVR.

Hopefully it's fixed when SDV is turned on. But I doubt it. Not sure what to do right now. I don't think attenuation will work. Not sure if it isn't their problem. I once complained about USA having a severe pixelation problem. But it since went away a while after though they didn't believe me.


----------



## brettatk

We got a lot of rain this past weekend and pixelation started occurring on my Tivo HD. I've ran into this problem a few times and so far Charter has been able to remedy the situation by checking the signal outside and replacing appropriate lines where needed. I called them last night as TV was barely watchable. Of course the first thing they assume is that the problem is inside. I know 100&#37; that the problem is not inside, but outside in one of the lines. I have come to loathe Charter. They said they had a 1-3, and 3-5 time slot open. I directly told him that I was not going to take off work again for a Charter technician to blow off the appointment because he was over scheduled. I said they needed to have someone come out and check the outside lines. I was told he couldn't guarantee that. So I guess I'll tell the Charter tech the same thing when he calls me to confirm later this afternoon and see what happens. I've been waiting for U-verse but might strongly reconsider DirecTV depending on how this plays out.


----------



## brettatk

Figured I'd follow up with my problem. Tech came out to my house Tuesday after work. He tried to blame the problem on an amplifier I had installed about 2 year's ago. But then he said he did notice a signal drop outside when he was testing. I was told he would have a truck roll out to the street to do more testing and replace any cables that needed to be replaced. I left shortly after and when I came home all my HD stations were completely out. Called Charter again and talked to a girl who said she would get hold of the tech and find out what was going on. Was told again that within 24 hours a truck would be sent out. Got home last night to more bad pixelation. Called Charter once again and was told that there wasn't anywhere on my account where a service truck roll out was requested. I about lost it on the guy. He said he could forward a request to my local tech supervisor and they would contact me today. I'm sure I'll be told that another tech will need to come out before they can issue a service truck roll out. 

I almost canceled Charter completely yesterday and I'm still considering it. Luckily I am able to pick up local HD OTA and have been recording off of that. Besides periodic signal flunctuations, it has been working pretty good but would like to try and find a stronger indoor antenna.

Edit: Just did some research and ordered an Indoor/Outdoor antenna that had excellent reviews on multiple sites. Should be delivered tomorrow. If it performs better than my current one then adios Charter. I can live off it until U-verse is available on my street. I say street because it seems streets on both sides of ours does have U-verse so hopefully it will be here soon.


----------



## dlfl

brettatk said:


> .......Edit: Just did some research and ordered an Indoor/Outdoor antenna that had excellent reviews on multiple sites. Should be delivered tomorrow. If it performs better than my current one then adios Charter. I can live off it until U-verse is available on my street. I say street because it seems streets on both sides of ours does have U-verse so hopefully it will be here soon.


Please post which antenna you bought and your results with it, when available. TIA.


----------



## brettatk

dlfl said:


> Please post which antenna you bought and your results with it, when available. TIA.


Will do. I should be getting it today so I'll do some testing and will post my results on Monday.

Last night the pixelation mysteriously stopped so I'm guessing Charter must have sent someone to the area. I didn't see any temporary cable runs on my street though, so maybe the problem was further up or it was a simpler fix. You would think they might actually call and ask me if my problem was resolved or to just let me know they had been out. Still praying that the new antenna works better than my current one so I can free myself of Charter forever.


----------



## brettatk

dlfl said:


> Please post which antenna you bought and your results with it, when available. TIA.


I bought the Clearstream 1 Convertible. It definitely works better than my other antenna. I scanned the channels and it picked up about 20 additional OTA channels that I didn't realize we could even get. I'm still doing some testing but so far it looks pretty good. I just have to make sure in bad weather whether or not the signal remains strong. I also have to experiment a little more with the placement of the antenna. If all that goes to plan then I'll be marching into the Charter office next week to cancel.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

brettatk said:


> I just have to make sure in bad weather whether or not the signal remains strong.


I'm too lazy to plug in your coordinates to see where you live. But you should definitely make sure your VHF stations (if you have any) will come in under marginal conditions. E.g. in the Amazon comments you link to, someone from my neck of the woods said: _"One friend's house in northeast Portland, OR is only 5 miles from the towers but in a difficult spot and he also needed a ClearStream 5 for still-VHF channels 8, 10, and 12."_ My experience was similar. My Silver Sensor antenna worked great when all the locals were UHF, but now I have marginal reception on the channels that switched back to VHF-high in June of last year. Just like your Clearstream 1, my Silver Sensor is (nominally) a UHF-only antenna.


----------



## brettatk

I was having a hard time finding the sweet spot inside so I decided to move my indoor/outdoor antenna outside to see if I could get a stronger signal. I disconnected where the outside cable enters my house and connected the antenna. Looking at antennaweb, I'm now getting all the OTA channels I'm suppose to get including UHF and VHF. I didn't get any pixelation last night at all across the board. Unfortunately there is not any bad weather in sight. But even if my signal drops a bit I think I'll be fine with my locals since right now they are all coming in at around 95&#37; signal strength. I could have gotten them close to 100% but some minor OTA channels suffered. So I tried to find a balance to where I could get all the channels offered. If those minor ones go out during bad weather then that will be fine with me. I'm going to test it for another day or so but it's looking like I'll be able to cancel Charter by the end of the week.


----------



## richsadams

brettatk said:


> I'm going to test it for another day or so but it's looking like I'll be able to cancel Charter by the end of the week.


Nice work! I may have missed it but did you happen to mention how far you are from the major antenna array? Most cities have one area, usually the highest nearby geographical location, where most if not all of the major networks affiliates install their broadcast antennas. TIA and congrats!


----------



## brettatk

richsadams said:


> Nice work! I may have missed it but did you happen to mention how far you are from the major antenna array? Most cities have one area, usually the highest nearby geographical location, where most if not all of the major networks affiliates install their broadcast antennas. TIA and congrats!


Looking at antennaweb, that distance for me is around 12 miles. There are two others that stretch out to 23 miles and 31 miles as well. I guess I'm lucky that most are fairly close and that I must be in a good area. I took my other antenna to my brother's house (not even 2 miles from mine) a couple of months ago and he couldn't get anything with it. He does live in what I would consider a low lying area so I guess the signal is being obstructed.


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## richsadams

brettatk said:


> Looking at antennaweb, that distance for me is around 12 miles. There are two others that stretch out to 23 miles and 31 miles as well.


Good info. I used a OTA for a while once. I was about 11 miles from the network affiliate antennas and the HD signal was pristine. You should be in good shape. Enjoy!


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## willv28

Well, this is a new one to me. Seems that it was never anything to do with the cable at all. My pixelation problems are caused by my cell phone. I have a blackberry which I got recently for work. The frequency used for 3G is close and no matter how far in the apartment the phone is away from everything, it still causes the pixelation. So, for now when I wanna watch TV I will turn off the phone.

The cable guys did fix a leak that was happening, but it was the phone. That's why I was glad when actual charter techs knocked on the door and not the contractors. No chance they would have thought of that. I was like, right, it operate on about the same freq. Never heard of it causing problems, but it does...


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## richsadams

willv28 said:


> Well, this is a new one to me. Seems that it was never anything to do with the cable at all. My pixelation problems are caused by my cell phone.


For the life of me I can't remember what it was about, but I remember reading about someone else's issues with their cell phone causing havoc. Guess you live an learn. Who needs a phone when you're watching TV right?

Thanks much for the follow up! :up:


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## e_dogg

I've got a TiVo HD that I've been using for quite some time now without any trouble at all. I moved this past weekend and had to switch from Verizon FiOS to Comcast cable. I've just got their "limited" package which is pretty much broadcase channels and a few others like Discovery. It also includes HD channels. I haven't watched TV much lately because I've been busy unpacking, but SD and HD channels looked just fine when the cable was connected directly to my TV.

Since I'm in the midst of unpacking, I finally just got around to hooking up my TiVo and have noticed that most of the HD channels have pixelation (I think I found a couple that don't do it). If it matters, the TiVo is connected with an HDMI cable and the coax cable is connected directly to the TiVo from the wall.

While I haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, I did read the last few pages and haven't really seen a situation like mine. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!


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## treyhsmith

I moved my stalwart TiVo HD from TWC to Grande Comm (moved to temp apt while house hunting). I have pixelation now on Grande, where it used to be clean on TWC.
DVR Diags shows: Signal strength 50-56, SNR 30-31db, RS Uncorrected 10012 (climbs by apx 5 every 5 sec), RS Corrected 10856622 (climbs 5000-800 per second).
The two RS stats seem scary. I've had 3 techs out so far - they say the signal strength is fine according to their meter. We've replaced coax cables, barrel connectors, splitters to no avail. Suggestions? Thanks fellas.


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## SCSIRAID

treyhsmith said:


> I moved my stalwart TiVo HD from TWC to Grande Comm (moved to temp apt while house hunting). I have pixelation now on Grande, where it used to be clean on TWC.
> DVR Diags shows: Signal strength 50-56, SNR 30-31db, RS Uncorrected 10012 (climbs by apx 5 every 5 sec), RS Corrected 10856622 (climbs 5000-800 per second).
> The two RS stats seem scary. I've had 3 techs out so far - they say the signal strength is fine according to their meter. We've replaced coax cables, barrel connectors, splitters to no avail. Suggestions? Thanks fellas.


They need a new meter  SNR and Signal strength is too low. You should be seeing SNR 34 or above.


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## treyhsmith

SCSIRAID said:


> They need a new meter  SNR and Signal strength is too low. You should be seeing SNR 34 or above.


Thanks for the quick reply. 
What should I see for signal strength?
Could this be caused by a bad CableCard? (At least this one was "new in box")


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## dlfl

treyhsmith said:


> Thanks for the quick reply.
> What should I see for signal strength?
> Could this be caused by a bad CableCard? (At least this one was "new in box")


See this TiVo support web page:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/150/kw/signal strength/p/88,90/r_id/100041

Recommended signal strength is 80-99. Assuming QAM-256 modulation your signal strengths barely meet TiVo's minimum requirements. SNR is low as SCSIRAID said. The RS error counts indicate a signal quality problem.


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## eisenb11

I have a S3 OLED with Fios and seem to be running into pixelation issues now. Everything was perfect for years until about a month ago.

Now I'm getting random pixelization. Sometimes it's so bad that it looks like the screen freezes and I'm forced to fast forward through it. Audio gets all messed up during this too. The problem is very intermittent which makes it hard to troubleshoot.

Kickstart 54 showed SMART failures on the main drive. So I got rid of the expander and swapped the main drive out for a new one. No more SMART errors, but the pixelization problem didn't go away.

Supposedly attenuation is no longer needed since 11h, but I decided to try that anyways. I tried attenuating at -3, -6, -10, -13, -16, -20 until I lost the signal. I saw pixelization occur at all of those attenuation levels - some were worse than others.

Usually RS Corrected and Uncorrected are going nuts during the pixelation, but I noticed that a couple of times the Corrected and Uncorrected numbers didn't change from the values before and after the pixelation - not always, but I did see this a couple of times.

This is very strange, does anyone have any ideas or know if there is a Fios issue that's been introduced in the last month or so?


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## Phantom Gremlin

eisenb11 said:


> This is very strange, does anyone have any ideas or know if there is a Fios issue that's been introduced in the last month or so?


Does this happen on just a few channels or on all channels? Most of my FiOS channels come in w/o any errors, correctable or uncorrectable. But a few channels experience a fairly large number of correctable errors and even a few uncorrectable ones. I see the video glitches on the screen, but I know what to look for. Thankfully my kids don't (one of the few problem channels is Disney 780).

But this isn't "new". I've had the problem since install, around April.

I don't think there's anything wrong with my FiOS fiber and ONT. It could be some design defect in the TiVo HD (I have multiple boxes with the problem). But I think it's something to do with how the shows are encoded and multiplexed together onto the fiber. However, I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff. You might search around on dslreports to see what the "experts" say.


----------



## mphtrilogy

eisenb11 said:


> I have a S3 OLED with Fios and seem to be running into pixelation issues now. Everything was perfect for years until about a month ago.
> 
> Now I'm getting random pixelization. Sometimes it's so bad that it looks like the screen freezes and I'm forced to fast forward through it. Audio gets all messed up during this too. The problem is very intermittent which makes it hard to troubleshoot.
> 
> Kickstart 54 showed SMART failures on the main drive. So I got rid of the expander and swapped the main drive out for a new one. No more SMART errors, but the pixelization problem didn't go away.
> 
> Supposedly attenuation is no longer needed since 11h, but I decided to try that anyways. I tried attenuating at -3, -6, -10, -13, -16, -20 until I lost the signal. I saw pixelization occur at all of those attenuation levels - some were worse than others.
> 
> Usually RS Corrected and Uncorrected are going nuts during the pixelation, but I noticed that a couple of times the Corrected and Uncorrected numbers didn't change from the values before and after the pixelation - not always, but I did see this a couple of times.
> 
> This is very strange, does anyone have any ideas or know if there is a Fios issue that's been introduced in the last month or so?


I am having a ton of problems as well. They started about a month ago. I am getting pixelation on some channels and on recorded shows, some are only recording as a "partial" becuase the pixelation is so bad it drops the rest of the program. I don't know if it is my expander or my FIOS. I have had attenuation on it for the past two years just fine, and I have removed the attenuation, problem still exists. I put it back, still exists. Next thing I guess is the expander, but I am really not sure what the problem is. Its not on every channel, and its not at all times, mostly at times from 5pm - 1am or so, heavy peak usage. Also mostly on HD channels.

Really frustrating, not sure what i should do, but I am looking at going back to a plain old DVR again...


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## richsadams

mphtrilogy said:


> I am having a ton of problems as well. They started about a month ago. I am getting pixelation on some channels and on recorded shows, some are only recording as a "partial" becuase the pixelation is so bad it drops the rest of the program. <snip>


That sounds frustrating as well and that you've done your homework.

There's a very good chance the issues are being caused by the expansion drive. Have a look at this post for some suggestions and see if it helps...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

Can you also post what brand, size and age your expansion drive is?

Best of luck and let us know how things go.


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## mphtrilogy

richsadams said:


> That sounds frustrating as well and that you've done your homework.
> 
> There's a very good chance the issues are being caused by the expansion drive. Have a look at this post for some suggestions and see if it helps...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444
> 
> Can you also post what brand, size and age your expansion drive is?
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how things go.


It's (the expansion drive, 500G, My Tivo Expander by WD) is about two years old, I know I am facing the problem of losing my recordings if I try and test out the tivo without it right?

The fact that I am having mostly problems on the HD does that make sense for the Expander?


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## richsadams

mphtrilogy said:


> It's (the expansion drive, 500G, My Tivo Expander by WD) is about two years old, I know I am facing the problem of losing my recordings if I try and test out the tivo without it right?
> 
> The fact that I am having mostly problems on the HD does that make sense for the Expander?


Unfortunately yes. All recordings are striped across both drives, so if the Expander is beginning to fail it will affect everything.

The lifespan for the WD 500GB My DVR Expanders has been about 12 to 18 months so there's a very good chance that's the key to the problems you're seeing.

Yes, if you divorce your Expander (be sure to follow the proper procedures as listed in the referenced post) you would lose all of the recordings made since it was connected.

If you can keep your TiVo running long enough you could try transferring any non-copy protected recordings to your computer via TiVo Desktop or one of the third-party programs like KMTTG and then back when you have things resolved.


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## mphtrilogy

thanks Rich. I am going to try the ESATA cable first, hope for the best. The work my way back to an internal drive swap.


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## richsadams

mphtrilogy said:


> thanks Rich. I am going to try the ESATA cable first, hope for the best. The work my way back to an internal drive swap.


Good plan. Make sure all of the connections are snug as well.


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## harry99

Just thought I'd go through my steps to fix the problem: freezing on live and recorded programs and pixellation on HD channels.

After 3 phone calls with Tivo techs, and several with Comcast, I looked at many ideas in the forum and tried most all. Powered off and on, recorded short HD programs every day, got a new eSATA cable for the expander, checked signal strength and moved splitters etc. to get perfect numbers, replaced cable cards (have two HD boxes - one of first two new cable cards from Comcast worked, returned to Comcast and got another which didn't work, did that again with same result, then got 4 cable cards and first one worked, returned the others - Comcast standard technicians (4 over 4 days) have no knowledge of Tivo and didn't even ask about the data id/host id - asked for supervisor who knew how. Then started calling supervisor first thing with good results - just bad cards. My Comcast location only gets returned cards - no new ones!. Still freezing.

Bought Premiere (only had two days before the end of their upgrade sale (then they exptended it for another month!) and hooked up with expander. Stuttering second day and then system powered down/rebooted by itself 1/2 hour later. Next day powered down again. Seemed like it was worse than the HD it replaced. Also go on the phone with WD tech support - no help there since expander out of warranty. Finally gave up on all my saved programs which I had moved from HD with expander to other Tivos and PC, then back to Premiere with expander - only 2 days worth of moving - threw a lot away. *Removed the expander and have not had a problem since on either the HD or the Premiere.* Obviously I didn't need to buy the Premiere at all - trying to decide whether to keep it or return within the 30 day period. Right now I am getting a bigger internal drive for one HD and will move stuff back again.

Net result - the expander seems to be the cause of the problem on both the HD and the Premiere. Only got a life of 15 months out of it. May try to reuse on my PC as an extra drive.

Quite a waste of two weeks effort - but I got to know my Tivo cabling and transferring programs a lot better.


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## richsadams

harry99 said:


> Just thought I'd go through my steps to fix the problem: freezing on live and recorded programs and pixellation on HD channels.
> 
> Net result - the expander seems to be the cause of the problem on both the HD and the Premiere. Only got a life of 15 months out of it. May try to reuse on my PC as an extra drive.
> 
> Quite a waste of two weeks effort - but I got to know my Tivo cabling and transferring programs a lot better.


Welcome to the forum Harry...sorry it's under such frustrating circumstances. Thanks for the info though. :up: It's too bad you didn't find the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ earlier:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Many folks have gone before you with the exact same problem and resolution. The 500GB WD My DVR Expanders seem to have an average lifespan of 12 to 18 months. Once the go south a lot of issues can arise as you found out. Interestingly enough it appears that about half of the problems are with the enclosure or power supply and not the actual hard drive. It's quite possible that if you pull the hard drive you'll find that it still works fine. A number of folks have "repurposed" them as backup drives for their computers, etc.

In any case, it's probably good to know that everything else is working fine and life can be good again.

Happy upgrading!


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## harry99

Thanks, Rich. Hopefully the frustration will be over soon - ordered a 1TB Hitachi Deskstar drive ($69.99), torx screwdriver set, and SATA to USB adapter from Amazon this morning. Total of $112.22 including shipping. Thought a lot about getting a 1TB My DVR expander - now only $109 from Amazon, but since my HD warranty is up anyway, decided to upgrade instead. 

Have you heard anything on the life of the WD 1TB expanders? Any better than the 500GB?

FYI, I checked when I bought the WD 500GB expander from TIVO - it was May, 2008 - so I actually got 26 months out of it before it started causing problems. Guess I should feel lucky it went as long as it did.

I will be following the upgrade instructions on the forum - if it goes as well as others reported, will probably do the same to my other HD.

Thanks to all the people who have put such good info on this site.


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## richsadams

harry99 said:


> Thanks, Rich. Hopefully the frustration will be over soon - ordered a 1TB Hitachi Deskstar drive ($69.99), torx screwdriver set, and SATA to USB adapter from Amazon this morning. Total of $112.22 including shipping. Thought a lot about getting a 1TB My DVR expander - now only $109 from Amazon, but since my HD warranty is up anyway, decided to upgrade instead.
> 
> Have you heard anything on the life of the WD 1TB expanders? Any better than the 500GB?
> 
> FYI, I checked when I bought the WD 500GB expander from TIVO - it was May, 2008 - so I actually got 26 months out of it before it started causing problems. Guess I should feel lucky it went as long as it did.
> 
> I will be following the upgrade instructions on the forum - if it goes as well as others reported, will probably do the same to my other HD.
> 
> Thanks to all the people who have put such good info on this site.


Good plan. :up: Although the WD 1TB My DVR Expanders haven't been around as long, there are far fewer reports of any issues with them as compared to the same time frame of the 500GB models so WD may have learned some lessons.

Happy upgrading!


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## hio3791

Hi everyone,

I have a Series 3 TivoHD with Comcast in the Pittsburgh market. My Tivo box is unmodified and I do not have an expansion drive on it. I bought this unit in January 2010 and I noticed pixelation about 2 weeks ago. The problem occurs 100&#37; of the time on PBS Sprout channel (SD). It also happens quite a bit on HGTV (HD). As far as I know, the other channels are coming in fine, at least haven't noticed it on any other channels.

I've rebooted the box, I had Comcast come out, they checked the coax cable from the wall to the box and swapped out the CableCard. That made no difference. The technician did mention that we have a weak signal at that outlet. Which is surprising because the technician that came out during the install said we had a strong signal.

Any suggestions? 

Thank you very much! My 19 month old and 4 yr old watch a lot of Sprout and my wife watches HGTV, so I am getting a lot of heat from them to get this fixed! LOL


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## richsadams

hio3791 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a Series 3 TivoHD with Comcast in the Pittsburgh market. My Tivo box is unmodified and I do not have an expansion drive on it. I bought this unit in January 2010 and I noticed pixelation about 2 weeks ago. The problem occurs 100% of the time on PBS Sprout channel (SD). It also happens quite a bit on HGTV (HD). As far as I know, the other channels are coming in fine, at least haven't noticed it on any other channels.
> 
> I've rebooted the box, I had Comcast come out, they checked the coax cable from the wall to the box and swapped out the CableCard. That made no difference. The technician did mention that we have a weak signal at that outlet. Which is surprising because the technician that came out during the install said we had a strong signal.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thank you very much! My 19 month old and 4 yr old watch a lot of Sprout and my wife watches HGTV, so I am getting a lot of heat from them to get this fixed! LOL


Sounds more like a local issue than TiVo if those are the only channels that are having problems. FWIW we've had both Comcast and Verizon FiOS and HGTV had/has macroblocking (pixelization) periodicallly from both carriers&#8230;although it was worse with Comcast (especially when an HGTV show would use split screens). I've read posts on other forums indicating the same experiences so I think there is something inherent in their delivered signal causing problems.

That said, the best thing to do now is to check all of your connections (sounds like you already have) like the coax, any splitters, etc. All coax cables s/b new with snug connections. Plug TiVo directly into a wall outlet&#8230;do not use a surge protector. (The best thing to use is a UPS). By all means do NOT run your coax through a surge protector either as it can have a severe impact on the cable signal. If all your connections are good the next step is to check several readings found on TiVo's diagnostic screens.

First go ahead and check your signal strength: TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Settings > Channels > Signal Strength - Cable. Tune to the channels that are presenting problems and see what the meter shows. Note if it is any different for those channels Vs others (probably will be the same). Ideal SS s/b in the range of 70 to 95 (around 90 or so being best) with little fluctuation. If it's continually swinging higher and lower, if it's lower than 70 or if it's pegged at 100 there can be PQ problems.

Next check the Signal to Noise Ratio or SNR for the offending channels: TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > DVR Diagnostics. Each tuner has its own set of stats with Tuner 0 showing up first&#8230;paging down through the screens (Ch up/down on the remote) will take you to Tuner 1. The SNR s/b between 31dB and 37dB and fairly steady. Anything outside of that could indicate signal trouble.

The next thing to check is RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors on the problematic channels, ideally when you see problems. These numbers can be found on the same diagnostic screen as those above. What you're looking for are the RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected lines. Ideally they should both be zero. When tuned to the problematic channels you could see hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands or even millions of RS Uncorrected errors. If so, then you have a signal issue, which could be caused by a defective splitter or cable. RS Uncorrected errors are how TiVo reports signal errors that cause macroblocking/pixelization and audio dropouts. If you see 0 RS Uncorrected errors on the channel, then you know you are seeing the channel just as it is delivered. A few dozen or even a few hundred RS Uncorrected errors generally won't be noticeable, but if you see thousands or millions of RS Uncorrected errors per minute, then you know that additional pixelization and/or AV degradation is introduced.

Again, if you're only seeing issues on two channels it doesn't sound like TiVo. If the issues start to propagate to other channels it could be an indication of a failing hard drive, but we won't go there until we get an idea of what you're seeing with respect to the above.

Hope that helps and let us know what you're seeing.


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## pops_porter

treyhsmith said:


> I moved my stalwart TiVo HD from TWC to Grande Comm (moved to temp apt while house hunting). I have pixelation now on Grande, where it used to be clean on TWC.
> DVR Diags shows: Signal strength 50-56, SNR 30-31db, RS Uncorrected 10012 (climbs by apx 5 every 5 sec), RS Corrected 10856622 (climbs 5000-800 per second).
> The two RS stats seem scary. I've had 3 techs out so far - they say the signal strength is fine according to their meter. We've replaced coax cables, barrel connectors, splitters to no avail. Suggestions? Thanks fellas.


Did you ever get a resolution to this? I'm in a similar situation, I've had 2 techs out, the third is on Sunday and the Tivo says signal is around 50-60 and I have bad pixelation, but the guys say my signal is right where it should be. RS corrected is a constantly growing number, so I do feel that it is a low signal but thier meters saying that everything is find is very frustrating.


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## richsadams

pops_porter said:


> Did you ever get a resolution to this? I'm in a similar situation, I've had 2 techs out, the third is on Sunday and the Tivo says signal is around 50-60 and I have bad pixelation, but the guys say my signal is right where it should be. RS corrected is a constantly growing number, so I do feel that it is a low signal but thier meters saying that everything is find is very frustrating.


Can you clarify a couple of things? First is this new&#8230;something that just started happening or has it gotten worse over time? Do things get worse or better depending on the weather&#8230;particularly when it rains? Also, is it your RS Corrected or RS _Uncorrected_ errors that are rising? It's an important distinction. RS Corrected numbers indicate how many times the forward error correction (FEC) had to be invoked to fix errors since the channel was tuned. The RS Uncorrected number indicates how may times the error exceeded the ability of the FEC to correct it. Final question, do you see the same thing on both tuners or is it just one and is it with the same channels, some of the same channels or all of them?

If your RS Uncorrected is 0 or low teens to hundreds and you're experiencing PQ problems like macroblocking/pixelization then the issue could be poor data in the stream coming from the original provider (HGTV, CNN, etc.) or it's possible that the Tivo is corrupting the data in some fashion. If the RS Uncorrected value is climbing then you most likely have a signal issue as mentioned above.

Bottom line, if your signal strength is 50 to 60 there is absolutely something wrong. Are the cableco techs testing the strength at the coax connection at your TiVo or elsewhere&#8230;such as outside or at the headend? Whatever the case, you're never going to have a decent experience with that signal strength.

FWIW things had been going along fine for us when we had Comcast for about a year. All of a sudden all sorts of issues popped up&#8230;dropouts macroblocking, etc. Comcast came out and swore everything was "fine". It was not. After three truck rolls a supervisor came out&#8230;checked a few things on the street, said he'd be back in a little while. When he returned he said that there was a wiring problem at one of the terminals a few blocks away. Seems a new installation had caused one of their folks to mess up our connection. After that everything was perfect.

Cableco techs often like to blame TiVo for whatever problems arise for all the reasons you can imagine. Don't take "It's fine" for an answer. Get specific readings and post them here. Make sure they understand that until your signal strength is acceptable that you're not going to let things go.

That said, it's quite possible that it's something to do with your inside wiring&#8230;old coax, splitters, connectors, etc. The difference in our own house is measurable. The coax that runs into our downstairs family room is brand new. SS is around 95 to 100 across the board. The coax feed that goes upstairs is about 15 years old (original to the house). The SS for the upstairs TiVo is about 70 to 75&#8230;not nearly as strong. However both TiVo's work perfectly.

They may want to put a signal amplifier in. That may or may not resolve your issue. If the SS is weak coming in, it's garbage in, garbage out. The SS from the street all the way to your first connection in the house s/b as strong as they can deliver. Some signal degradation after that can be acceptable, but it shouldn't start until after their connection to your house and it cannot be below 70 or so on your TiVo. So don't give up and don't let anyone else give up either.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


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## pops_porter

richsadams said:


> Can you clarify a couple of things? First is this new&#8230;something that just started happening or has it gotten worse over time? Do things get worse or better depending on the weather&#8230;particularly when it rains? Also, is it your RS Corrected or RS _Uncorrected_ errors that are rising? It's an important distinction. RS Corrected numbers indicate how many times the forward error correction (FEC) had to be invoked to fix errors since the channel was tuned. The RS Uncorrected number indicates how may times the error exceeded the ability of the FEC to correct it. Final question, do you see the same thing on both tuners or is it just one and is it with the same channels, some of the same channels or all of them?
> 
> If your RS Uncorrected is 0 or low teens to hundreds and you're experiencing PQ problems like macroblocking/pixelization then the issue could be poor data in the stream coming from the original provider (HGTV, CNN, etc.) or it's possible that the Tivo is corrupting the data in some fashion. If the RS Uncorrected value is climbing then you most likely have a signal issue as mentioned above.
> 
> Bottom line, if your signal strength is 50 to 60 there is absolutely something wrong. Are the cableco techs testing the strength at the coax connection at your TiVo or elsewhere&#8230;such as outside or at the headend? Whatever the case, you're never going to have a decent experience with that signal strength.
> 
> FWIW things had been going along fine for us when we had Comcast for about a year. All of a sudden all sorts of issues popped up&#8230;dropouts macroblocking, etc. Comcast came out and swore everything was "fine". It was not. After three truck rolls a supervisor came out&#8230;checked a few things on the street, said he'd be back in a little while. When he returned he said that there was a wiring problem at one of the terminals a few blocks away. Seems a new installation had caused one of their folks to mess up our connection. After that everything was perfect.
> 
> Cableco techs often like to blame TiVo for whatever problems arise for all the reasons you can imagine. Don't take "It's fine" for an answer. Get specific readings and post them here. Make sure they understand that until your signal strength is acceptable that you're not going to let things go.
> 
> That said, it's quite possible that it's something to do with your inside wiring&#8230;old coax, splitters, connectors, etc. The difference in our own house is measurable. The coax that runs into our downstairs family room is brand new. SS is around 95 to 100 across the board. The coax feed that goes upstairs is about 15 years old (original to the house). The SS for the upstairs TiVo is about 70 to 75&#8230;not nearly as strong. However both TiVo's work perfectly.
> 
> They may want to put a signal amplifier in. That may or may not resolve your issue. If the SS is weak coming in, it's garbage in, garbage out. The SS from the street all the way to your first connection in the house s/b as strong as they can deliver. Some signal degradation after that can be acceptable, but it shouldn't start until after their connection to your house and it cannot be below 70 or so on your TiVo. So don't give up and don't let anyone else give up either.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes.


Rich, thanks for the quick response. This problem is happening on both of my 2 tivos, the TVs without cablecards receive the analog channels fine.

I've had Charter for 3 years and everything has been fine unitl 2 weeks ago when there was some minor pixelation. Now many channels have pixelation, both digital and analog. And it does come and go, it's never 100% as some channels always have pixelation, but there are low points where all channels have pixelation and many don't come in at all. I haven't correlated it to rain, but it did rain a lot yesterday and today has been a very bad day with many channels missing (too low of a signal I'm assuming).

The RS Corrected number is much much larger than Uncorrected. But both are high numbers. I do see it on both tuners and both Tivos.

The two visits I've had from Charter were contractors. They suggested I have a Charter Systems Tech come out because he has more meters. He will be here on Sunday, but I thought I should try to educate myself so we can get this figured out. It was interesting you said garbage in/garbage out regarding the amplifier. I had them try that on the last visit and it made no change. They've also run new cable from the box on the corner of my lot to the house and a new cable from the outside into the splitter inside my house. Thanks for any insight you have

I should add that SDV will start Oct. 5th in my area, I wondered if that would affect my signal if they were testing it in the background.

SNR is 29, which doesn't seem to be a good level from what I'm reading.


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## triftraf

My series 3 with an over 2 year old 500gb WD DVR Expander has had a few issues..

Problems:
1) Got the Mad Men Season 3 Amazon VOD on my Tivo and it was unwatchable - no pixelation issue - but the audio and video was more what I would call "juttery". Contacted Amazon and they initially said it was their issue - then they had me re-download - but it was still a problem. So I gave up.

2) On a couple ABC shows on this last Wednesday night I had some pixelation and minor audio drops. I checked the signal strength and it was in the 90's. 

Since then I've not seen any more pixelation on this channel or others. Looking at the DVR Diagnostics my SNR is 35 and RS Corrected 0 and RS Uncorrected 0 on both tuners. I decided to try kickstart 54 - but I can't seem to get the kickstart to KICK in. Any special process for a Series 3?? All I ever get in 4 lights (2 red, 1 blue, 1 amber) and then eventually the little amber Tivo graphic on the front display... Pause button doesn't seem to cause any difference in the lights that I can detect...

What is the likelihood of this being a drive going bad vs a bad Amazon VOD and a coincidentally bad couple of shows on ABC. Or maybe the limited amount of problems leads the eSata cable going bad?

Thoughts??


----------



## richsadams

pops_porter said:


> This problem is happening on both of my 2 tivos, the TVs without cablecards receive the analog channels fine. <snip>


All very good info. :up: The fact that it's happening on both boxes and that it only started a couple of weeks ago is a very strong indication that Charter has done something on their end. I've no idea if it has to do with SDV. It doesn't seem likely, but you never know.

Bottom line again then is that your signal is unacceptably low. The contractors likely don't have any authority to deal with anything outside of a residence so it's much more probable that the Charter tech will be able to resolve things.

My WAG is that something happened upstream to cause this. Have you mentioned it to any of your neighbors? It's possible that it's affecting them too&#8230;it's also quite possible that it's not. However if it is, that's more data the tech can use to figure things out. I suspect he or she will get things ironed out for you this weekend. Show him what you're dealing with, when it happened, share the fact that things were fine and then this issue happened on both TiVo's and they should understand that all of those aren't coincidences and not likely anything to do with TiVo itself.

Best of luck and let us know how things go!


----------



## richsadams

triftraf said:


> My series 3 with an over 2 year old 500gb WD DVR Expander has had a few issues..
> 
> Problems:
> 1) Got the Mad Men Season 3 Amazon VOD on my Tivo and it was unwatchable - no pixelation issue - but the audio and video was more what I would call "juttery". Contacted Amazon and they initially said it was their issue - then they had me re-download - but it was still a problem. So I gave up.
> 
> 2) On a couple ABC shows on this last Wednesday night I had some pixelation and minor audio drops. I checked the signal strength and it was in the 90's.
> 
> Since then I've not seen any more pixelation on this channel or others. Looking at the DVR Diagnostics my SNR is 35 and RS Corrected 0 and RS Uncorrected 0 on both tuners. I decided to try kickstart 54 - but I can't seem to get the kickstart to KICK in. Any special process for a Series 3?? All I ever get in 4 lights (2 red, 1 blue, 1 amber) and then eventually the little amber Tivo graphic on the front display... Pause button doesn't seem to cause any difference in the lights that I can detect...
> 
> What is the likelihood of this being a drive going bad vs a bad Amazon VOD and a coincidentally bad couple of shows on ABC. Or maybe the limited amount of problems leads the eSata cable going bad?
> 
> Thoughts??


Well, my money will be on your DVR Expander drive going bad. Lifetime seems to be about 18 months, so you're due in a sense. Have a read of this post and see if anything fits

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

With respect to the Kickstart process, the single amber light will illuminate just after all four lights go out. It's very brief and that's why you need to hold down the pause button until you see just that light, quickly release it and then enter the proper KS code. I just tried it on my Series3 to be sure it still works and it does. Follow these directions carefully and you should be able to get it to work

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

Hope that helps and let us know how things turn out!


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## pops_porter

Well I had an actual Charter Systems Tech out today and he said that yes the signal strength is fine, but the signal quality is "in the dirt" and will need a Charter line tech to come out and do something at the box in the corner of my lot. so the Tivo is fine and it's nothing in my house, just sad it took 3 visits from Charter to figure this out, especially after my first two visits kept saying my signal was fine.

SNR is up to 32 and it's a little better, hopefully my picture will be back to normal after tomorrow.


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## richsadams

pops_porter said:


> Well I had an actual Charter Systems Tech out today and he said that yes the signal strength is fine, but the signal quality is "in the dirt" and will need a Charter line tech to come out and do something at the box in the corner of my lot. so the Tivo is fine and it's nothing in my house, just sad it took 3 visits from Charter to figure this out, especially after my first two visits kept saying my signal was fine.
> 
> SNR is up to 32 and it's a little better, hopefully my picture will be back to normal after tomorrow.


Ah, just as I thought. What a relief eh? At least you know that it's something that can be fixed...hopefully soon! Thanks for reporting back. :up:


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## hio3791

richsadams said:


> Sounds more like a local issue than TiVo if those are the only channels that are having problems. FWIW we've had both Comcast and Verizon FiOS and HGTV had/has macroblocking (pixelization) periodicallly from both carriersalthough it was worse with Comcast (especially when an HGTV show would use split screens). I've read posts on other forums indicating the same experiences so I think there is something inherent in their delivered signal causing problems.
> 
> That said, the best thing to do now is to check all of your connections (sounds like you already have) like the coax, any splitters, etc. All coax cables s/b new with snug connections. Plug TiVo directly into a wall outletdo not use a surge protector. (The best thing to use is a UPS). By all means do NOT run your coax through a surge protector either as it can have a severe impact on the cable signal. If all your connections are good the next step is to check several readings found on TiVo's diagnostic screens.
> 
> First go ahead and check your signal strength: TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Settings > Channels > Signal Strength - Cable. Tune to the channels that are presenting problems and see what the meter shows. Note if it is any different for those channels Vs others (probably will be the same). Ideal SS s/b in the range of 70 to 95 (around 90 or so being best) with little fluctuation. If it's continually swinging higher and lower, if it's lower than 70 or if it's pegged at 100 there can be PQ problems.
> 
> Next check the Signal to Noise Ratio or SNR for the offending channels: TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > DVR Diagnostics. Each tuner has its own set of stats with Tuner 0 showing up firstpaging down through the screens (Ch up/down on the remote) will take you to Tuner 1. The SNR s/b between 31dB and 37dB and fairly steady. Anything outside of that could indicate signal trouble.
> 
> The next thing to check is RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors on the problematic channels, ideally when you see problems. These numbers can be found on the same diagnostic screen as those above. What you're looking for are the RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected lines. Ideally they should both be zero. When tuned to the problematic channels you could see hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands or even millions of RS Uncorrected errors. If so, then you have a signal issue, which could be caused by a defective splitter or cable. RS Uncorrected errors are how TiVo reports signal errors that cause macroblocking/pixelization and audio dropouts. If you see 0 RS Uncorrected errors on the channel, then you know you are seeing the channel just as it is delivered. A few dozen or even a few hundred RS Uncorrected errors generally won't be noticeable, but if you see thousands or millions of RS Uncorrected errors per minute, then you know that additional pixelization and/or AV degradation is introduced.
> 
> Again, if you're only seeing issues on two channels it doesn't sound like TiVo. If the issues start to propagate to other channels it could be an indication of a failing hard drive, but we won't go there until we get an idea of what you're seeing with respect to the above.
> 
> Hope that helps and let us know what you're seeing.


Thank you for your help. A few things, my Tivo has always been on a UPS. I checked the cables, signal strength, SNR. The signal strength for PBS was in the 60's. HGTV was in the mid 80's. SNR was within range (according to Tivo's recommended low/high values). There were no RS corrected/uncorrected errors on either channel.

Comcast came out Saturday, found the outside cable coming into my house had been nicked by something, so the installer replaced the line. That boosted the signal strength across the board. But these 2 channels still pixelate. Then he said that was his second call in one day where both customers had the same issue, previous customer also had a Tivo box. He told the first customer that it may be the Tivo since the channels come in fine with a standard cable box. But now that he was investigating the same issue at my house, he started to think that the problem may be on their end. Maybe something changed and the cablecards are affected. He said he would have someone investigate. Don't know if I'll hear back but it was interesting and highly coincidental to be a Tivo issue.

Thanks.


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## richsadams

hio3791 said:


> Thank you for your help.
> 
> Comcast came out Saturday, found the outside cable coming into my house had been nicked by something, so the installer replaced the line. That boosted the signal strength across the board. But these 2 channels still pixelate. Then he said that was his second call in one day where both customers had the same issue, previous customer also had a Tivo box. He told the first customer that it may be the Tivo since the channels come in fine with a standard cable box. But now that he was investigating the same issue at my house, he started to think that the problem may be on their end. Maybe something changed and the cablecards are affected. He said he would have someone investigate. Don't know if I'll hear back but it was interesting and highly coincidental to be a Tivo issue.
> 
> Thanks.


Glad to help. That is interesting, and as mentioned we've seen issues w/HGTV on both Comcast and FiOS, so I suspect that their programming/delivery, something is a little different for some reason. Could be how TiVo handles it, hard to say.

Glad to hear things are better though. Let us know if you ever hear back from them.


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## pops_porter

I've recently been posting some problems and Charter fixed some equipment on their system and most channels are back up in the 80-90 signal range with SNR between 33 and 35.

There are four channels, that were not coming in at all previously but since my signals are higher they do come in but can be pixelated sometimes. Signal levels are about 50 and SNR is 28-29. All of these have a frequency of 753000 kHz or above. Any guesses out there what I could tell the Charter guys of why only these channels have such a poor signal and SNR?


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## hmm52

Signal levels anywhere near 50 are way too low. 80-90 isn't wonderful either but you won't get tiling/pixelation from too low a signal level in the eighties. I think most people with cable are seeing values in the 90s, typically 95-100. You've done more than your part for Charter - identifying the problem frequencies and values. It is up to them to figure out why and fix it. Have them check line level at the various outlets, directly at cable end. It's best for TiVo at 0 to +1. Good luck.


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## richsadams

pops_porter said:


> I've recently been posting some problems and Charter fixed some equipment on their system and most channels are back up in the 80-90 signal range with SNR between 33 and 35.
> 
> There are four channels, that were not coming in at all previously but since my signals are higher they do come in but can be pixelated sometimes. Signal levels are about 50 and SNR is 28-29. All of these have a frequency of 753000 kHz or above. Any guesses out there what I could tell the Charter guys of why only these channels have such a poor signal and SNR?


What hmm52 said. :up:


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## mentra

After four incidents with Tivo support, I moved the 380 programs recorded on the series 3 with the expander to my computer, divorced the expander from the series 3, and no more pixilation!! The expander was a 500MB and about 18 months old.


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## richsadams

mentra said:


> After four incidents with Tivo support, I moved the 380 programs recorded on the series 3 with the expander to my computer, divorced the expander from the series 3, and no more pixilation!! The expander was a 500MB and about 18 months old.


Ughsorry to hear about your "loss". Seems about par for WD's 500GB Expander though. At least you were able to save some recordings! :up:


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## Brighton Line

mentra said:


> divorced the expander from the series 3, and no more pixilation!! The expander was a 500MB and about 18 months old.


Same with me, pixilation, stuttering with the 500mb 15 month expander. Went out got a TB internal drive drive and replaced expander and original internal drive and have been happy ever since.

Bedroom still running a 500mb 16 month expander without issue (knock on wood) but I will do the same WHEN (not if) it goes.


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## harry99

richsadams said:


> Good plan. :up: Although the WD 1TB My DVR Expanders haven't been around as long, there are far fewer reports of any issues with them as compared to the same time frame of the 500GB models so WD may have learned some lessons.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


I have successfully upgraded both Tivo HDs with Hitachi 1TB drives - the instructions in the forum are great - the second upgrade only took 25 minutes! It will be awhile before I run out of space. Have had some unexpected reboots on my Premiere (bought before I knew the Expander was causing my problems on the HD). Now that I have two good Tivo HDs, each with 157 HD hours - I plan to return the Premiere and use the HDs and my old Series 2 for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for the help - only thing I would suggest to anyone who has freezing/pixellation problems is to try removing the DVR expander earlier if you can move the recordings easily - could save a lot of time and $.


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## richsadams

harry99 said:


> I have successfully upgraded both Tivo HDs with Hitachi 1TB drives - the instructions in the forum are great - the second upgrade only took 25 minutes!


Glad to hear things worked out okay. Enjoy!


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## SierraBob

I have a Series 3 that has gradually developed a freezing problem. I ran the full disk diagnostic and it passed. Based on what I have read here, the next step seems to be to replace the internal HDD but I wanted to see if there are other suggestions to try first. I have a 652-0001-8056. It has an external 500G WD HDD. Both tested out good for what that is worth.
The symptom started on ESPN with stuttering / pixelization and freezing up while live. If you go up one channel and then back it starts to work again just fine. Then the same symptoms started to spread to other channels. Comcast came out and fixed some cables and tested signal strength but that did not help. I got a Comcast DVR from them to test and that one seems to work without errors so far. I cannot hook both up to the cable as the same time. 
Thoughts? Thanks in advance


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## tcfcameron

You may find this post useful for troubleshooting:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8201581#post8201581

This link to a TiVo Support article may also help:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/150


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## SCSIRAID

SierraBob said:


> I have a Series 3 that has gradually developed a freezing problem. I ran the full disk diagnostic and it passed. Based on what I have read here, the next step seems to be to replace the internal HDD but I wanted to see if there are other suggestions to try first. I have a 652-0001-8056. It has an external 500G WD HDD. Both tested out good for what that is worth.
> The symptom started on ESPN with stuttering / pixelization and freezing up while live. If you go up one channel and then back it starts to work again just fine. Then the same symptoms started to spread to other channels. Comcast came out and fixed some cables and tested signal strength but that did not help. I got a Comcast DVR from them to test and that one seems to work without errors so far. I cannot hook both up to the cable as the same time.
> Thoughts? Thanks in advance


The external 500G DVR Expanders are notorious for causing macroblocking and freezing issues. About the only way to be sure is to divorce the external drive and see if the problem goes away.

Before you do that, you should check out DVR diags when you see macroblocking 'live' and see if your RS Uncorrected count is increasing significantly. That could be indicative of a signal issue.


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## richsadams

SierraBob said:


> I have a Series 3 that has gradually developed a freezing problem. I ran the full disk diagnostic and it passed. Based on what I have read here, the next step seems to be to replace the internal HDD but I wanted to see if there are other suggestions to try first. I have a 652-0001-8056. It has an external 500G WD HDD. Both tested out good for what that is worth.
> The symptom started on ESPN with stuttering / pixelization and freezing up while live. If you go up one channel and then back it starts to work again just fine. Then the same symptoms started to spread to other channels. Comcast came out and fixed some cables and tested signal strength but that did not help. I got a Comcast DVR from them to test and that one seems to work without errors so far. I cannot hook both up to the cable as the same time.
> Thoughts? Thanks in advance


What SCSIRAID said and have a look at this post and see if anything helps:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7553444#post7553444

You could also try running a couple of TiVo's built-in diagnostic and repair programs called "Kickstarts". Here's a link and a recommend order in which to try each one...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2


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## arowaninpgh

Can anyone help? 
At this point, TiVo help is blaming Comcast and Comcast is blaming TiVo.

I have a TiVO HD (several years old) that is having severe pixelation problems. One or two channels I cannot tune at all and 28 other channels are pixelating so bad that they are unwatchable (stuttering, freezing, pixelating every two seconds)....and other channels are pixelating that never did it before. It has been going on for several months and seems to be getting worse (it started with only 8 channel problems). For several years this TiVO worked fine. My other TiVos (with other set ups) are working perfectly. 

My set up:
TiVO HD with two SA cable cards connected with an HDMI cable to TV - no external drives -hard drive is expanded (weaknees) for 47 HD hours.
The TiVO is not acting up in any other way- some channels are perfect - records what it is supposed to - jumps menus on demand - and no rebooting on its own- no pixelating in menus. 

What I have tried so far:
soft and hard reboots
replaced every cable (coaxial, HDMI)
removed HDMI cable and tried composite and component
Ran kickstarts 54,57, and 58 - all passed
Attenuators and splitters

TiVo help insists that the signal is to "hot". Signal strength on every channel is 100 with SNF 38 (RS correction 0). But when I added attenuators and got it down to 80-85 with SNF 30-35...it was no improvement.....and I started to see many different numbers in RS correction.

Oh, and one TiVO help said that if I just bought a new Premiere I would not have these problems. But the next TiVO help said that a Premiere would have the same problems -- since it is a cable issue. 

Comcast service tech asked me if I have a TiVO before he set foot in the door. He told me that is seems to be a known issue in my area and that Comcast is "working on the problem" ---it is some problem with the TiVos in my area -- not a Comcast issue....but they were trying to help. 

Three weeks later and I cannot get a Comcast supervisor to call me back -- and the problem is getting worse.

While the tech was here, he checked the signal and said it was "fine". He checked the cable cards and said they were fine. I never thought it was a cable card issue because the channels problems happen the same on both cards.

I know TiVos go bad with time. That is just life. But I am not willing to spend $468 for a Premier with lifetime service and have the same problems. 

I have also read that cable cards go bad - I would demand new ones- but Comcast insists mine are fine and that it is my TiVo that is causing the problems. 

And here is one more symptom...recently Comcast is my area add another tier of HD channels. So in some cases I have the same stations on three different numbers (1 digital, and 2 HD). For example, Disney is channel 34 (digital),715 (HD) and 880 (HD). Dinsey happens to be one of my problem channels and the pixelation is the same on all three channels. Does this make sense to anyone? 

How can I tell if my harddrive is going bad?
How can I tell if it is a tuner going bad?
How can I tell if it is a cable card issue?
How can I tell if it is a cable issue?

Does any one have any suggestions?


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## richsadams

arowaninpgh said:


> Can anyone help?
> At this point, TiVo help is blaming Comcast and Comcast is blaming TiVo.
> <snip>


How frustrating! First, can you clarify exactly which TiVo model you have? Is it one of the original TiVo Series3's or the next gen TiVo HD? I ask because you indicated that you have two cable cards. The Series3 required to cable cards (single or multi-stream), but the TiVo HD only requires one multi-stream (but can also use two single-stream cards).

TiVo Series3
http://i39.tinypic.com/2ela4it.jpg

TiVo HD
http://i41.tinypic.com/2nqy554.jpg

Also, what models are your other TiVo's? I ask because if they are hi-def (Original Series3 or TiVo HD) and are not experiencing any problems my take would be a failing hard drive. Although a strong signal can cause the issues you're seeing your other TiVo's s/b experiencing the same problem(s) if they are also hi-def.

Plus if the problem is getting worse it also points to eminent hard drive failure. TiVo's diagnostic and repair programs (AKA "Kickstarts") are only capable of so much. If the issues are too severe they won't be able to repair them and there's really no way for you to know if they were effective other than if the problem goes away. KS54 is a standard Linux SMART test is is not infallible. Many folks have reported their drives "passing" SMART however when they run a more robust diagnostic like Western Digital's Lifeguard the drive's don't pass.

There's really no way of knowing if the drive is failing without pulling it and running a proper diagnostic. The downside of that is that if you were to run a full diagnostic (read/write/read all zeros) it would wipe all of your hard drive's data.

So my take based on your description is that it's probably a failing hard drive. Hard drive failure is the most common problem with TiVo (by far). However it's possible that it's a cable card issue. If you have a TiVo HD and you have two of the old single stream (SS) cable cards I would ask Comcast to replace them with one newer multi-stream (MS) cable card to eliminate that possibility. (Might save you rental costs as well). I still don't think that's the problem because one failing cable card (or tuner for that matter) would only affect some of your recordings.

FWIW cableco's are infamous for pushing off a problem on TiVo even though it is often something wrong with their system. Although they are required by law to support cable card setups, they really have little interest becuase TiVo basically costs them revenue that they could have by renting you one of their DVR's. A lot of cableco's do a good job these days as TiVo's are far more prevalent, but there is often resistance and it's an easy out for the folks that are more interested in getting to the next job and going home than learning something. In other words, some cableco's need to be pushed pretty hard to resolve issues so don't take "no", or worse, "we don't know" for an answer.

Hope that helps a little. Post some more info and we'll go from there.


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## arowaninpgh

Rich--
Thank you so, so much for your response. This site is a fantastic thing....especially for people that love their TiVo's, but have no one else to go to. 

In my family, I am the "geek"....which is a sad state of affairs. What I mean is that, when they need help...for example, why their TV remote stopped working ("how about changing the battery?") they call me. ("Is your computer plugged in?")

I also talked them all in to getting TiVos.....so now I am TiVo customer service for a bunch of stubborn people. 

So here is an update....Monday morning I lost my Comcast service for an hour and when it came back on.....all of my problem channels (I was up to 35) had been fixed. Like magic. And as of five minutes ago...they were all still working perfectly. 

I have been trying to fix the problem for over 3 months. It started out with just 3 channels, then 8, then 22....and then up to 35 channels that were unwatchable. 

Because it was getting worse and involved both tuners, I had myself convinced that it was my TiVO HD hard drive...hey, hard drives go bad....and that I would have to replace the drive or upgrade to a Premier. But before I spent any more money, I just wanted to make sure it really was my TiVo HD....and not a cable card or my cable service. 

All Comcast had to say was "we're working on it". I would not have wasted so much time (it had become a part time job), or calling TiVo help....and not to mention wasting your time. 

Instead they said "it is a known issue with TiVo HDs in your area. We're not sure if we can help you if it a TiVo problem. We'll have a supervisor call you." But no one ever called....in three weeks (I kept calling for updates). So I assumed I was on my own. 

So...fingers crossed that it is fixed.

I just wanted to thank you for your response. And I wanted to post.....anyone in the Bethel Park, PA area with a TiVo HD with Comcast Xfinity service.....that has freezing screens, pixelation, or lost channels.....don't blame your TiVo......call Comcast....over and over. *sigh*

Regards,
Amy


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## nkmhockey

To all those who were having problems in the Bethel Park or Pittsburgh, PA areas:

I got my TiVo Premiere installed at the end of November and the pixilation problems were there from the start. Sadly, I did not notice the issue until the tech who installed the cablecard left. I made a list of the channels that were unwatchable due to pixilation and I made a separate list of channels that I am subscribed to, but only showed up as the black Searching for Signal screen on the TiVo. I submitted these lists via the 'Comcast Direct' forum at DSLReports.com

That forum is privately handled by a Corporate Escalations Team at Comcast who are all very good at getting issues taken care of and providing top-notch customer service. I suspected the issue could be signal related, but even when I eliminated all splitters and took the cable drop straight into the TiVo, there was absolutely no improvement or change in the problematic channels, so I suspected it was an issue on Comcasts end.

I was contacted by Tony from the escalations team who dispatched a tech to my house yesterday. I checked the problem channels before the tech arrived, and to my surprise, all but 2 of them were 100% fixed. The tech arrived and ran some tests on the signal in the house to verify that everything was within specifications, it all checked out fine. The tech spoke about some problems in the area caused by a firmware upgrade to TiVos that was causing the pixilation problem only on certain frequencies. Apparently, Comcast was aware of the issue, but it took them a few weeks to isolate the problem and get it fixed.

Channels that were completely missing:
103 - Planet Green - 609,000 KHz
129 - G4 - 609,000 KHz
186 - The Sportsman Channel - 627,000 KHz
716/881 - ABC Family HD - 477,000 KHz

Channels that were viewable, but basically unwatchable due to pixilation:
120 - National Geographic - 597,000 KHz
127 - Outdoor Channel - 621,000 KHz
134 - DIY - 603,000 KHz
139 - MTV Jams - 615,000 KHz
185 - C-SPAN3 - 597,000 KHz
209 - Fox Business - 603,000 KHz
229 - Qubo - 657,000 KHz
233 - PBS Kids Sprout - 609,000 KHz
255 - Hallmark Channel - 111,000 KHz
715 - Disney Channel-HD - 477,000 KHz
733 - HGTV-HD - 717,000 KHz
737 - CNN-HD - 717,000 KHz
738/826 - TBS-HD - 747,000 KHz

As of today, the only 2 channels that are still not working are:
716/881  ABC Family HD  477,000 KHz (no signal)
715  Disney HD  477,000 KHz (pixilation)

The tech made a note of those channels and said hopefully the issue would be fully resolved in the next few days. Tony from escalations followed up and made a note of the 2 remaining problem channels and said he would call again on Friday to verify that everything is working correctly.

I will be happy if the last 2 channels are fixed by the New Year. I just hope that this issue has been corrected permanently because my Premiere unit has not gotten the 14.7 update yet. Time will tell.

I hope this information helps others who may have similar issues in other areas.


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## arowaninpgh

nkmhockey-
thanks for the information. I live in Bethel Park and had problems with the exact same channels. For two days they were fixed and then I lost:
716/881 &#8211; ABC Family HD &#8211; 477,000 KHz (no signal)
715 &#8211; Disney HD &#8211; 477,000 KHz (pixilation).

At that point I started to believe that it must be my hard drive. I had even started pricing for a replacement. 

One question.....besides those 715 and 716 are you having any slight pixelation on other channels? The channels are still watchable, but it is noticeable. And this is on channels that did not have pixelation before the fix. The best example I can give is channel 37 (the weather channel)....never had problems before and now there is pixelation about every two minutes. 

I'm just double checking to make sure it is not just me. Thanks!

Merry holidays!


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## nkmhockey

I did not previously notice any issues with The Weather Channel, but yes, as of 12/24 I am having some major pixilation issues.

I have not noticed issues on any other channels - everything seems perfect, no pixilation or tiling.

This definitely shouldn't be a hardware problem. Comcast originally tried to blame the CableCard, but that would likely cause issues on all/most channels, not this limited set.

I will check the frequency of TWC when I get home later to see if it is in the same 477,000 KHz range.


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## hio3791

hio3791 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a Series 3 TivoHD with Comcast in the Pittsburgh market. My Tivo box is unmodified and I do not have an expansion drive on it. I bought this unit in January 2010 and I noticed pixelation about 2 weeks ago. The problem occurs 100% of the time on PBS Sprout channel (SD). It also happens quite a bit on HGTV (HD). As far as I know, the other channels are coming in fine, at least haven't noticed it on any other channels.
> 
> I've rebooted the box, I had Comcast come out, they checked the coax cable from the wall to the box and swapped out the CableCard. That made no difference. The technician did mention that we have a weak signal at that outlet. Which is surprising because the technician that came out during the install said we had a strong signal.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thank you very much! My 19 month old and 4 yr old watch a lot of Sprout and my wife watches HGTV, so I am getting a lot of heat from them to get this fixed! LOL


Got an update on this issue. About 3 weeks ago, Nick Jr started pixelating. DIYNetwork did too. I called Tivo support and we walked through the steps: replaced the coax cable, went over signal strength, SNR and RS Corrected/Uncorrected values. The service rep was puzzled by the signal strength and SNR values. He thought they were too high and recommended I called Comcast and request an attenuator to be installed. Comcast came out, installed an attenuator at my box and voila! No more pixelation. All of my channels come in perfectly clear and the family is happy again.

It's been over 2 weeks since the attenuator was installed and everything appears fine.


----------



## richsadams

hio3791 said:


> Got an update on this issue. About 3 weeks ago, Nick Jr started pixelating. DIYNetwork did too. I called Tivo support and we walked through the steps: replaced the coax cable, went over signal strength, SNR and RS Corrected/Uncorrected values. The service rep was puzzled by the signal strength and SNR values. He thought they were too high and recommended I called Comcast and request an attenuator to be installed. Comcast came out, installed an attenuator at my box and voila! No more pixelation. All of my channels come in perfectly clear and the family is happy again.
> 
> It's been over 2 weeks since the attenuator was installed and everything appears fine.


Good info. :up: We went through something similar a couple of years ago (before we switched to FiOS). Comcast went on a competitive mission to upgrade all of their services, particularly broadband speeds, to meet Verizon's new FiOS offering. It was a plus because we'd often hit 30Mbps+ broadband download speeds (although they were never stable) but the downside was the signal strength pegged every channel at 100% and that often resulted in macroblocking...the signal was too strong. Their own DVR's could apparently handle it, but TiVo's are more sensitive to that sort of thing. We never went the attenuation route as we switched to FiOS as soon as it was available, but it can be a problem. (It was actually a severe problem for some FiOS customers until Verizon realized that more is not necessarily better and got their own signals under control.)

Comcast continues to cram more and more data into a finite pipe (more often than not adding more and more compression to their HD signals which results in poorer and poorer PQ) so they can offer competitive programming. The thought process I'm sure is that cranking up the signal strength will compensate for some of their activity. Unfortunately for TiVo owners that can cause more trouble than good.

Glad to hear things are good again though!


----------



## joediver

Similar problems with Comcast. What strength attenuator was installed? 3db, 6db, 10db?


----------



## mike1273

I just returned to cable from two years with DirecTV. No problems with the service but my wife wanted TiVo again and Suddenlink now offers the HD programs that we enjoy.

I took my TiVo HD out of the closet (two years active and two years in the closet) and got service.

SS always 100 with no RS issues and 38 dB SNR. Pixeliation on several channels, loss of audio on some and the affected shannels growing by the day. Tried attenuators but no joy. Suddenlink checked system and saw no issues. I was ready to buy a Premiere but saw the Kickstart codes on this forum. I ran all of them and now, after four days, have had no issues with the TiVo.

I hope that this may help some of you.


----------



## richsadams

mike1273 said:


> I just returned to cable from two years with DirecTV. No problems with the service but my wife wanted TiVo again and Suddenlink now offers the HD programs that we enjoy.
> 
> I took my TiVo HD out of the closet (two years active and two years in the closet) and got service.
> 
> SS always 100 with no RS issues and 38 dB SNR. Pixeliation on several channels, loss of audio on some and the affected shannels growing by the day. Tried attenuators but no joy. Suddenlink checked system and saw no issues. I was ready to buy a Premiere but saw the Kickstart codes on this forum. I ran all of them and now, after four days, have had no issues with the TiVo.
> 
> I hope that this may help some of you.


Glad to hear things worked out. FWIW if you start seeing issues again I'd consider replacing the hard drive. I'm not sure which KS resolved the problem, but it was probably KS57 or KS58, both of which correct data corruption and if found, isolate bad sectors on the hard drive. It may have been a one-time thing (power failure, surge, signal, etc.) however if things start going south again it may be time for a new drive.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## chris98891

Hey everybody, I think I've had enough.

I have a Tivo HD with a western digital expander and 2 motorola cable cards as well as a motorola SDV tuning adapter, all of this with Charter Cable.

I am having SEVERE pixelation and tiling on all of my local HD channels, as well as Comedy Central and TBS HD. The locals are unwatchable for most of the day, but are ok in the evening usually (but not tonight for some reason). 

Charter has already been out once. They tested inside the house (all signals were great), outside of the house (still great) and at the main line (still great) and were perplexed. I have a supervisor coming out tomorrow to check it out. 

What should i be looking for? Everything else runs fine, so I'm having a tough time being convinced its the hard drive. Should I try attenuation? Also, if I remember right, there may be a signal booster installed way back in the day in the crawlspace, should I remove that?

Thanks for any other help you can give!


----------



## dwit

chris98891 said:


> Hey everybody, I think I've had enough.
> 
> I have a Tivo HD with a western digital expander and 2 motorola cable cards as well as a motorola SDV tuning adapter, all of this with Charter Cable.
> 
> I am having SEVERE pixelation and tiling on all of my local HD channels, as well as Comedy Central and TBS HD. The locals are unwatchable for most of the day, but are ok in the evening usually (but not tonight for some reason).
> 
> Charter has already been out once. They tested inside the house (all signals were great), outside of the house (still great) and at the main line (still great) and were perplexed. I have a supervisor coming out tomorrow to check it out.
> 
> What should i be looking for? Everything else runs fine, so I'm having a tough time being convinced its the hard drive. Should I try attenuation? Also, if I remember right, there may be a signal booster installed way back in the day in the crawlspace, should I remove that?
> 
> Thanks for any other help you can give!


Are you also set up for ota(over the air)? Do you get the same issues with ota HD?


----------



## chris98891

dwit said:


> Are you also set up for ota(over the air)? Do you get the same issues with ota HD?


I'm not too sure how to check. The cable guy last time showed me that he could change around a couple wires and I'd lose most of my HDs and my locals would come in perfect, so I'd imagine the OTA HD works fine?

EDIT: There is a three way splitter between the wall, tuning adapter, and tivo. if i unscrew the tuning adapter from it, my picture improves significantly on some channels

Note: NBC<CBS<ABC as far as picture quality

Double EDIT: 
Some more information, my RS Uncorrected and corrected: 0
SNR: 31dB, signal strength: 56

on a local channel that comes in decently:
RS uncorrected: low, 0-200
RS Corrected: high, easily passing 200,000
SNR: 27dB, signal strength 42


----------



## dwit

chris98891 said:


> I'm not too sure how to check. The cable guy last time showed me that he could change around a couple wires and I'd lose most of my HDs and my locals would come in perfect, so I'd imagine the OTA HD works fine?
> 
> EDIT: There is a three way splitter between the wall, tuning adapter, and tivo. if i unscrew the tuning adapter from it, my picture improves significantly on some channels
> 
> Note: NBC<CBS<ABC as far as picture quality


OTA essentially means do you have an antenna(indoor or outdoor) connected to the Tivo. On the back of the Tivo, the cable(from the cable company) is attatched to a aterminal, and right next to that is another "Antenna" terminal.

Assuming you are not set up for over the air. You would know it because there usually are a lot of different ota channels that you would have come across while flipping thru channels. This is all set up in the initial guided set up of the Tivo.

I was just wondering. I am having similar issues and I was pretty sure it was the cable, until I realized the same thing was happening with my ota channels, which of course, are not involved with the cable signals in any way.

That is just my case though. Yours could very well be the cable, but of course, a bad hard drive is a possibility.

Looks like you very well could have signal strength issues, after looking at the additional info.

Good luck.


----------



## SCSIRAID

chris98891 said:


> I'm not too sure how to check. The cable guy last time showed me that he could change around a couple wires and I'd lose most of my HDs and my locals would come in perfect, so I'd imagine the OTA HD works fine?
> 
> EDIT: There is a three way splitter between the wall, tuning adapter, and tivo. if i unscrew the tuning adapter from it, my picture improves significantly on some channels
> 
> Note: NBC<CBS<ABC as far as picture quality
> 
> Double EDIT:
> Some more information, my RS Uncorrected and corrected: 0
> SNR: 31dB, signal strength: 56
> 
> on a local channel that comes in decently:
> RS uncorrected: low, 0-200
> RS Corrected: high, easily passing 200,000
> SNR: 27dB, signal strength 42


Both of your SNR values are low. I would expect >33 for best results. I would look towards signal strength/quality as the cause. That 3 way splitter concerns me. You should verify that the TiVo is on the -3.5db leg of the splitter and not the -7db leg.

Where are the 3 outputs of that splitter going?


----------



## chris98891

SCSIRAID said:


> Both of your SNR values are low. I would expect >33 for best results. I would look towards signal strength/quality as the cause. That 3 way splitter concerns me. You should verify that the TiVo is on the -3.5db leg of the splitter and not the -7db leg.
> 
> Where are the 3 outputs of that splitter going?


I was mistaken, its only a two way splitter. It comes in from the wall, there are two 3.5dB plugs, one goes to the tuning adapter, and one goes to the tivo. the tuning adapter is then connected to the tivo via USB

EDIT: had a breakthrough...some contractors hired by charter came out...and let me tell you...they were fantastic. he crawled through the crawlspace, climbed up the telephone poles in the back, and explored the attic diagnosing everything he could. he found an old splitter that we eliminated, and whatdya know, that -3.5dB was causing the issue. channels are perfectly clear


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

chris98891 said:


> he found an old splitter that we eliminated, and whatdya know, that -3.5dB was causing the issue. channels are perfectly clear


It could be that the splitter was simply defective.

But don't assume that a non-defective splitter costs you exactly 3.5 dB (or anything even close). If you're e.g. now on an 860 MHz cable system and the old splitter was designed for 750 MHz (or even for 500 MHz), then at frequencies above what it was designed for the attenuation could have been much worse, 10 dB or even 20 dB.

What that means is *some* of your channels would have worked well, while others would have been almost totally unusable. And that probably was what you were seeing. You probably still have some *analog* channels at low frequencies, and those would get through just fine with the old splitter. But many cable systems put HD channels on high frequencies. E.g. around here Comcast puts them at 560 MHz up to about 800 MHz.

Around here, Verizon was much better than Comcast in terms of testing installed cable for signal strength characteristics. When I had FiOS installed, the guy had a portable meter which he used to check multiple frequencies at every single outlet. In contrast the Comcast guy didn't even have a meter with which to test signal strength.

Alas, things were too good to be true, Verizon sold us out to Frontier, and eventually I'll have to switch back to Comcast.


----------



## Breeze

Hi guys,

I have an S3 with a WD extender and 2 S-Cards with Tuning adapter from Cablevision. I've had pixelation issues in the past that seems to have improved much in the last year (which I presumed was probably from a firmware update of the TA).

However, I still have occasional pixelation issues where the picture is garbled and I lose a couple of seconds of my program. This may happen once or twice during a 1 or 2 hour recorded program. 

Can anyone tell me what most likely is causing this? Is this due to the S-Cards and I should switch to M cards? Or is it some other issue with my Tivo itself?


----------



## SCSIRAID

Breeze said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have an S3 with a WD extender and 2 S-Cards with Tuning adapter from Cablevision. I've had pixelation issues in the past that seems to have improved much in the last year (which I presumed was probably from a firmware update of the TA).
> 
> However, I still have occasional pixelation issues where the picture is garbled and I lose a couple of seconds of my program. This may happen once or twice during a 1 or 2 hour recorded program.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what most likely is causing this? Is this due to the S-Cards and I should switch to M cards? Or is it some other issue with my Tivo itself?


It could be due to HDD or it could be due to cable signal quality. It could also be coming directly from the cable company (a breakup in the stream they receive from the provider).

To explore signal quality tune a live show. Go into DVR Diagnostics and look at the tuner stats for the channel number you have tuned. Look at Signal Strength, SNR and the RS Corrected and Uncorrected statistics. Signal strength should typically be between say -5 and +2... not hard and fast but just typical. SNR should be 34 or higher. RS Uncorrected should be 0 or a very low number. Nonzero RS Corrected is ok but if it is large or incrementing quickly then you have a clue that your signal sucks. Then go back to live TV and watch it. When you see a breakup jump back to DVR Diags and see if the RS Uncorrected number jumped up. If it did... the TiVo encountered uncorrectable errors in the stream that were very likely the cause of your pixelation.

DVR Extenders are notorious for causing problems... so as the previous poster indicated... HDD's can definitely cause this kind of problem too.

Do you have a second DVR... TiVo or Cablecompany POS... or have a neighbor with one? If so, record the same show between the two and then watch on your TiVo and note where the breakups are. If the other DVR has the breakup at the same place.... its the cableco's problem. Garbage In Garbage Out. This is much more common than you might think.


----------



## richsadams

SCSIRAID said:


> It could be due to HDD <snip>


Did you notice that the post is almost two months old? Not sure if he got it fixed or not and your info is certainly spot-on for anyone that happens by. However the thread was bumped by a spammer yesterday (post since deleted) and may be why it popped up on your radar. Just sayin'.


----------



## SCSIRAID

richsadams said:


> Did you notice that the post is almost two months old? Not sure if he got it fixed or not and your info is certainly spot-on for anyone that happens by. However the thread was bumped by a spammer yesterday (post since deleted) and may be why it popped up on your radar. Just sayin'.


Ahhh... Nope, I didnt notice that. Thanks!


----------



## Breeze

SCSIRAID said:


> It could be due to HDD or it could be due to cable signal quality. It could also be coming directly from the cable company (a breakup in the stream they receive from the provider).
> 
> To explore signal quality tune a live show. Go into DVR Diagnostics and look at the tuner stats for the channel number you have tuned. Look at Signal Strength, SNR and the RS Corrected and Uncorrected statistics. Signal strength should typically be between say -5 and +2... not hard and fast but just typical. SNR should be 34 or higher. RS Uncorrected should be 0 or a very low number. Nonzero RS Corrected is ok but if it is large or incrementing quickly then you have a clue that your signal sucks. Then go back to live TV and watch it. When you see a breakup jump back to DVR Diags and see if the RS Uncorrected number jumped up. If it did... the TiVo encountered uncorrectable errors in the stream that were very likely the cause of your pixelation.
> 
> DVR Extenders are notorious for causing problems... so as the previous poster indicated... HDD's can definitely cause this kind of problem too.
> 
> Do you have a second DVR... TiVo or Cablecompany POS... or have a neighbor with one? If so, record the same show between the two and then watch on your TiVo and note where the breakups are. If the other DVR has the breakup at the same place.... its the cableco's problem. Garbage In Garbage Out. This is much more common than you might think.


Thanks SCSI. I was indeed still waiting for an answers.

My Signal strength, depending on channel, is anywhere from 80 to 100. You said it should be between -5 and +2??? I figured 100 was the best?

SNR is typically around 36 dB

RS uncorrected is typically 0

RS corrected is typically 0 or 2

I don't typically notice these issues during live TV. It seems to occur more on taped shows. Which leads me to believe that it was more likely an hdd or extender issue.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Breeze said:


> Thanks SCSI. I was indeed still waiting for an answers.
> 
> My Signal strength, depending on channel, is anywhere from 80 to 100. You said it should be between -5 and +2??? I figured 100 was the best?
> 
> SNR is typically around 36 dB
> 
> RS uncorrected is typically 0
> 
> RS corrected is typically 0 or 2
> 
> I don't typically notice these issues during live TV. It seems to occur more on taped shows. Which leads me to believe that it was more likely an hdd or extender issue.


The signal strength numbers I quoted are available in Tuning Adapter Diags. Sorry bout that..

The other numbers from DVR diags sound great.

As to recordings vs live... TiVo always plays out of the buffer on the HDD so there isnt much difference betweeen live and recording playback.


----------



## AVSman

Hi all,

We have a Series 3 using cablecards (Comcast cable in Seattle, WA). We bought it the first day it came out, so it&#8217;s over 5 years old. Over the past few weeks we&#8217;ve been getting more and more pixilated video/garbled audio. I followed TiVo&#8217;s HD pixilation diagnostic instructions, and I saw tons of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors on each tuner when using cablecards (tens of thousands of errors).

Here are the troubleshooting steps I&#8217;ve gone through so far:

&#8226;	Manually rebooted (unplugged, waited 15 seconds, plugged back in) &#8211; no change
&#8226;	Got different cablecards from Comcast &#8211; no change
&#8226;	Kickstart 57 &#8211; no change
&#8226;	Kickstart 54 - All S.M.A.R.T. tests passed

I've noticed over the past year or two the occasional cablecard error. So, before I bothered checking wiring or swapping out coaxial cables, I thought, &#8220;I wonder if the problem occurs on unencrypted QAM?&#8221; I removed the cablecards, ran a channel scan, and the picture and sound are great &#8211; zero RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors on both tuners! This leads me to believe that some component in the cablecard pathway inside the TiVo is the problem, since a different set of cablecards had the same issue, and unencrypted QAM looks great.

Has anyone encountered this before? Is there a certain component that I could swap out from a working Series 3 (bought from eBay or Craigslist)? Our Series 3 has lifetime so I&#8217;d like to keep it working. I haven&#8217;t soldered anything in 20 years, but I&#8217;m willing to give it a try, if necessary.


----------



## SCSIRAID

AVSman said:


> Hi all,
> 
> We have a Series 3 using cablecards (Comcast cable in Seattle, WA). We bought it the first day it came out, so its over 5 years old. Over the past few weeks weve been getting more and more pixilated video/garbled audio. I followed TiVos HD pixilation diagnostic instructions, and I saw tons of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors on each tuner when using cablecards (tens of thousands of errors).
> 
> Here are the troubleshooting steps Ive gone through so far:
> 
> 	Manually rebooted (unplugged, waited 15 seconds, plugged back in)  no change
> 	Got different cablecards from Comcast  no change
> 	Kickstart 57  no change
> 	Kickstart 54 - All S.M.A.R.T. tests passed
> 
> I've noticed over the past year or two the occasional cablecard error. So, before I bothered checking wiring or swapping out coaxial cables, I thought, I wonder if the problem occurs on unencrypted QAM? I removed the cablecards, ran a channel scan, and the picture and sound are great  zero RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors on both tuners! This leads me to believe that some component in the cablecard pathway inside the TiVo is the problem, since a different set of cablecards had the same issue, and unencrypted QAM looks great.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this before? Is there a certain component that I could swap out from a working Series 3 (bought from eBay or Craigslist)? Our Series 3 has lifetime so Id like to keep it working. I havent soldered anything in 20 years, but Im willing to give it a try, if necessary.


What are the signal levels and SNR for each tuner while you are seeing pixelation?

The Error stats are coming from the demodulator which is 'before' the cablecard so I wouldnt expect the issue to be cablecard related.


----------



## AVSman

SCSIRAID said:


> What are the signal levels and SNR for each tuner while you are seeing pixelation?
> 
> The Error stats are coming from the demodulator which is 'before' the cablecard so I wouldnt expect the issue to be cablecard related.


I just performed another test. Viewing unencrypted QAM (without the cablecards), I saw the following stats:

Channel 4-1
Signal Strength: 95 - 100
SNR: 35dB
(no RS errors)

Channel 16-1
Signal Strength: 95 - 100
SNR: 35dB
(no RS errors)

I then re-inserted the cablecards and viewed the same channels:

Channel 104 (this is how Comcast maps 4-1)
Signal Strength: flips between 95, 86, and 0
SNR: 35dB
(lots of RS errors)

Channel 106 (this is how Comcast maps 16-1)
Signal Strength: flips between 95 and 0
SNR: 35dB
(lots of RS errors)

I'm consistently getting errors only using the cablecards. Unencrypted QAM continues to be fine. I would blame the cablecards, but this has happened now with two different sets.


----------



## SCSIRAID

AVSman said:


> I just performed another test. Viewing unencrypted QAM (without the cablecards), I saw the following stats:
> 
> Channel 4-1
> Signal Strength: 95 - 100
> SNR: 35dB
> (no RS errors)
> 
> Channel 16-1
> Signal Strength: 95 - 100
> SNR: 35dB
> (no RS errors)
> 
> I then re-inserted the cablecards and viewed the same channels:
> 
> Channel 104 (this is how Comcast maps 4-1)
> Signal Strength: flips between 95, 86, and 0
> SNR: 35dB
> (lots of RS errors)
> 
> Channel 106 (this is how Comcast maps 16-1)
> Signal Strength: flips between 95 and 0
> SNR: 35dB
> (lots of RS errors)
> 
> I'm consistently getting errors only using the cablecards. Unencrypted QAM continues to be fine. I would blame the cablecards, but this has happened now with two different sets.


Are the indicated frequencies and Modulation the same between clear QAM (16-1) and with the cablecards in place (106)? The SNR's and signal levels are fine for the clear QAM... but you are right... something fishy is going on.

Do you use a Tuning Adapter? If so.. is it in place for both tests (with and without cablecards?)


----------



## AVSman

SCSIRAID said:


> Are the indicated frequencies and Modulation the same between clear QAM (16-1) and with the cablecards in place (106)? The SNR's and signal levels are fine for the clear QAM... but you are right... something fishy is going on.
> 
> Do you use a Tuning Adapter? If so.. is it in place for both tests (with and without cablecards?)


Yes, the frequencies and modulation are the same between the clear QAM and using the cablecards.

No, we don't use a Tuning Adapter. (And thanks for your replies, by the way!)

If anyone has any idea as to what component might be the culprit, I'd love to hear it. I'm not looking forward to duplicating all of our season passes using manual recordings!


----------



## SCSIRAID

AVSman said:


> Yes, the frequencies and modulation are the same between the clear QAM and using the cablecards.
> 
> No, we don't use a Tuning Adapter. (And thanks for your replies, by the way!)
> 
> If anyone has any idea as to what component might be the culprit, I'd love to hear it. I'm not looking forward to duplicating all of our season passes using manual recordings!


Wow... This is a wierd one. One thing you could try is attenuation. If you have a 4 way splitter and can connect thru it that would drop signal level 7db. If you have a 2 way, that would be 3.5db. My thought is that you may be on the edge of tuner overload but I am really 'reaching' here as I dont see what the cablecards would have to do with it. At least it would be one more thing off the table.


----------



## AVSman

SCSIRAID said:


> Wow... This is a wierd one. One thing you could try is attenuation. If you have a 4 way splitter and can connect thru it that would drop signal level 7db. If you have a 2 way, that would be 3.5db. My thought is that you may be on the edge of tuner overload but I am really 'reaching' here as I dont see what the cablecards would have to do with it. At least it would be one more thing off the table.


I tried a two-way splitter and got the same results (things look great with unencrypted QAM and bad with cablecards).

I'm not sure what to do next. I'm long out of warranty, but I guess I could call TiVo and see if they can offer me a deal to upgrade...

Thanks for your suggestions!


----------



## unitron

AVSman said:


> I tried a two-way splitter and got the same results (things look great with unencrypted QAM and bad with cablecards).
> 
> I'm not sure what to do next. I'm long out of warranty, but I guess I could call TiVo and see if they can offer me a deal to upgrade...
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions!


You've got a 5 year old machine.

It's having "strange" symptoms.

I would be very unsurprised to learn that you needed to replace one or more capacitors in the power supply.

It could be about time to replace the hard drive as well, but anything wrong with the current one would be much, much more unlikely, as in nearly impossible, to cause your specific strange symptoms, whereas a marginal power supply might be able to manage okay until you add the extra load of the cable card(s).

If you plan to replace that S3 with another TiVo, then sell it to me cheap, but, if you want to try to save it, search my comments for the word "capacitor" and you'll find a lot, on which I've already spent time writing, about the "capacitor disease" problem and what to do to see if that's your problem and how to fix it.


----------



## AVSman

unitron said:


> You've got a 5 year old machine.
> 
> It's having "strange" symptoms.
> 
> I would be very unsurprised to learn that you needed to replace one or more capacitors in the power supply.
> 
> It could be about time to replace the hard drive as well, but anything wrong with the current one would be much, much more unlikely, as in nearly impossible, to cause your specific strange symptoms, whereas a marginal power supply might be able to manage okay until you add the extra load of the cable card(s).
> 
> If you plan to replace that S3 with another TiVo, then sell it to me cheap, but, if you want to try to save it, search my comments for the word "capacitor" and you'll find a lot, on which I've already spent time writing, about the "capacitor disease" problem and what to do to see if that's your problem and how to fix it.


Thanks for making that suggestion! I checked out the power supply this morning, and sure enough, there were three bulging capacitors. I considered repairing them myself, but since there are (at least) three that are failing, I thought I might as well replace the whole power supply. I'd like to keep this TiVo running as long as possible.

I know that weaKnees sells new power supplies for the Series 3. Are there any other places that sell them? (I know I could get them used on eBay or craigslist, but I'd rather get a new one.)


----------



## SCSIRAID

AVSman said:


> Thanks for making that suggestion! I checked out the power supply this morning, and sure enough, there were three bulging capacitors. I considered repairing them myself, but since there are (at least) three that are failing, I thought I might as well replace the whole power supply. I'd like to keep this TiVo running as long as possible.
> 
> I know that weaKnees sells new power supplies for the Series 3. Are there any other places that sell them? (I know I could get them used on eBay or craigslist, but I'd rather get a new one.)


Caps are cheap... If you can solder.. id recommend you change them and see if that solves the problem before investing in a new power supply.


----------



## unitron

AVSman said:


> Thanks for making that suggestion! I checked out the power supply this morning, and sure enough, there were three bulging capacitors. I considered repairing them myself, but since there are (at least) three that are failing, I thought I might as well replace the whole power supply. I'd like to keep this TiVo running as long as possible.
> 
> I know that weaKnees sells new power supplies for the Series 3. Are there any other places that sell them? (I know I could get them used on eBay or craigslist, but I'd rather get a new one.)


Okay, sell me the power supply cheap and I'll fix it.

Apparently DVRUpgrade also sells power supplies, but apparently they and weaknees are really the same people now.

9th Tee doesn't seem to have any, and I'm not sure if they even mess with anything newer than Series 2s.


----------



## dlfl

You could look for a (non-lifetime) S3 on eBay that might be cheaper than a new PS. Then swap that PS in. Unfortunately, it would be another old PS and might get, or already have, capacitor disease. The different TiVo models have different PS'es, so be sure you get the same model you have.

Replacing the caps, even if you have to pay to have it done, is probably a better way to go.


----------



## unitron

AVSman said:


> Thanks for making that suggestion! I checked out the power supply this morning, and sure enough, there were three bulging capacitors. I considered repairing them myself, but since there are (at least) three that are failing, I thought I might as well replace the whole power supply. I'd like to keep this TiVo running as long as possible.
> 
> I know that weaKnees sells new power supplies for the Series 3. Are there any other places that sell them? (I know I could get them used on eBay or craigslist, but I'd rather get a new one.)


If you do replace the caps, educate yourself about the need for low-ESR caps so you get the right kind of replacements or make sure that whoever does the repair for you understands what's needed.


----------



## AVSman

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions - lots of good points were raised. After weighing all of the options, I decided to buy a new power supply for my Series 3 off of eBay. It was less shipped than one from weaKnees, and I get to keep my old one (I figured I could sell it to someone who might want to repair it and keep it or resell it). I don't have a ton of time these days, so I wanted the ease of swapping the power supply out. Time or money... sometimes you have to pick which one is more important to you...

unitron, I love the quote in your signature, btw! Classic line from the original trilogy.


----------



## unitron

AVSman said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions - lots of good points were raised. After weighing all of the options, I decided to buy a new power supply for my Series 3 off of eBay. It was less shipped than one from weaKnees, and I get to keep my old one (I figured I could sell it to someone who might want to repair it and keep it or resell it). I don't have a ton of time these days, so I wanted the ease of swapping the power supply out. Time or money... sometimes you have to pick which one is more important to you...
> 
> unitron, I love the quote in your signature, btw! Classic line from the original trilogy.


You understand it refers to what TiVo did to lifetime S1 subscribers in the UK, right?

Once you've confirmed that the new power supply fixes your problem, let me know what you want for the old one.


----------



## AVSman

unitron said:


> You understand it refers to what TiVo did to lifetime S1 subscribers in the UK, right?
> 
> Once you've confirmed that the new power supply fixes your problem, let me know what you want for the old one.


No, I didn't know that. I'll have to look up what happened.

I'll contact you after I get the new one installed and test it out.


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## unitron

AVSman said:


> No, I didn't know that. I'll have to look up what happened.
> ...


The (S1 and not the new Virgin Media TiVo) UK forum is here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=14

and the threads about it started early this year, but some of them are still active, so the date of the most recent comments isn't necessarily the best way to find them.


----------



## shwru980r

AVSman said:


> Is there a certain component that I could swap out from a working Series 3 (bought from eBay or Craigslist)? Our Series 3 has lifetime so Id like to keep it working.


Yes, you could swap the hard drive and the power supply from a second S3 and see if that resolves the issue.


----------



## AVSman

AVSman said:


> Hi all,
> 
> We have a Series 3 using cablecards (Comcast cable in Seattle, WA). We bought it the first day it came out, so its over 5 years old. Over the past few weeks weve been getting more and more pixilated video/garbled audio. I followed TiVos HD pixilation diagnostic instructions, and I saw tons of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors on each tuner when using cablecards (tens of thousands of errors).
> 
> Here are the troubleshooting steps Ive gone through so far:
> 
> 	Manually rebooted (unplugged, waited 15 seconds, plugged back in)  no change
> 	Got different cablecards from Comcast  no change
> 	Kickstart 57  no change
> 	Kickstart 54 - All S.M.A.R.T. tests passed
> 
> I've noticed over the past year or two the occasional cablecard error. So, before I bothered checking wiring or swapping out coaxial cables, I thought, I wonder if the problem occurs on unencrypted QAM? I removed the cablecards, ran a channel scan, and the picture and sound are great  zero RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors on both tuners! This leads me to believe that some component in the cablecard pathway inside the TiVo is the problem, since a different set of cablecards had the same issue, and unencrypted QAM looks great.
> 
> Has anyone encountered this before? Is there a certain component that I could swap out from a working Series 3 (bought from eBay or Craigslist)? Our Series 3 has lifetime so Id like to keep it working. I havent soldered anything in 20 years, but Im willing to give it a try, if necessary.


The audio/video issues were resolved after I installed the new power supply. Thanks everyone for your input and advice! :up:


----------



## DrSnoCaps

SCSIRAID said:


> Caps are cheap... If you can solder.. id recommend you change them and see if that solves the problem before investing in a new power supply.


Any chance you have a list of which ones to order (complete set) and where's the best place to get them from?


----------



## unitron

DrSnoCaps said:


> Any chance you have a list of which ones to order (complete set) and where's the best place to get them from?


You probably don't need a complete set.

Usually it'll be one or maybe 2 on one of the output voltages.

What model TiVo do you have and have you had the power supply out and actually found the ones with a slight, or greater, bulge, or leakage?

Have you gone to Wikipedia and read their page on "capacitor plague" to learn how to spot the problem visually?

The tops should be absolutely, positively flat.

Do you have any soldering experience and equipment?

As to where to get them, where are you geographically?


----------



## SCSIRAID

DrSnoCaps said:


> Any chance you have a list of which ones to order (complete set) and where's the best place to get them from?


I order caps from MCM Electronics.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/


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## unitron

SCSIRAID said:


> I order caps from MCM Electronics.
> 
> http://www.mcmelectronics.com/


The only problem with MCM, at least as of a couple of years ago, is shipping fees start a little high and go up with purchase price, which is okay if you're buying a lot of heavy stuff, but otherwise a bit off-putting.

But they are good people to deal with otherwise.


----------



## classygal31

unitron said:


> Okay, sell me the power supply cheap and I'll fix it.
> 
> Apparently DVRUpgrade also sells power supplies, but apparently they and weaknees are really the same people now.
> 
> 9th Tee doesn't seem to have any, and I'm not sure if they even mess with anything newer than Series 2s.


I am having the same problem as AVSman. I found a bulging capacitor in the power supply and had it replaced. Reconnected the TiVo Series 3 and it still is pixelating, freezing, stuttering and then automatically rebooting itself. Any other suggestions? Should I try to replace the entire power supply instead of just the one capacitor I thought was bad?


----------



## unitron

classygal31 said:


> I am having the same problem as AVSman. I found a bulging capacitor in the power supply and had it replaced. Reconnected the TiVo Series 3 and it still is pixelating, freezing, stuttering and then automatically rebooting itself. Any other suggestions? Should I try to replace the entire power supply instead of just the one capacitor I thought was bad?


Did whoever did the replacing test the power supply in the TiVo?

Longer than 5 minutes?


----------



## classygal31

No, he tested the capacitors in the power supply and said they were all ok. Then, the power supply was put back in the TiVo and started up. It didn't appear to solve any of the existing issues. I'm trying to buy a used TiVo so I can replace the entire power supply and hope that works.


----------



## unitron

classygal31 said:


> No, he tested the capacitors in the power supply and said they were all ok. Then, the power supply was put back in the TiVo and started up. It didn't appear to solve any of the existing issues. I'm trying to buy a used TiVo so I can replace the entire power supply and hope that works.


All OK except the one that was bulging and needed to be replaced?


----------



## classygal31

unitron said:


> All OK except the one that was bulging and needed to be replaced?


That's what the repairman said, although with my Tivo Series 3 still acting up I'm a little suspicious. I took it apart again, examined all the capacitors in the power supply and they all appear to have completely flat tops. If I completely remove the cable cards, the Tivo works fine. I've replaced the cable cards in the last few days on advice of Tivo support. I'm pretty sure it's the power supply, but just not obvious which other capacitor is bad or maybe something else within the power supply?


----------



## unitron

classygal31 said:


> That's what the repairman said, although with my Tivo Series 3 still acting up I'm a little suspicious. I took it apart again, examined all the capacitors in the power supply and they all appear to have completely flat tops. If I completely remove the cable cards, the Tivo works fine. I've replaced the cable cards in the last few days on advice of Tivo support. I'm pretty sure it's the power supply, but just not obvious which other capacitor is bad or maybe something else within the power supply?


Somebody else around here the other day ran into the "adding cable cards adds just enough extra load to cause problems" problem, and I seem to recall power supply repair fixed it.

Ask the repairman if he/she used a low ESR replacement. The only acceptable answer is yes.

Ask them if there was another capacitor in parallel on the same output rail with the one they changed out. (there probably was and it was probably the +5 Volt rail)

If so, it was in a situation where it was trying to do the work of both and I'd replace it as well just on general principles.

Get them to look at the +3.3 Volt and +5 Volt outputs with an oscilloscope and watch what happens when a cable card is inserted.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

unitron said:


> Get them to look at the +3.3 Volt and +5 Volt outputs with an oscilloscope and watch what happens when a cable card is inserted.


Hmmm, just like reading the TV repair column in the old Radio Electronics magazine. First debug tip was "scope the B+".


----------



## unitron

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Hmmm, just like reading the TV repair column in the old Radio Electronics magazine. First debug tip was "scope the B+".


"For Men With Ideas In Electronics"!


----------



## classygal31

unitron said:


> Somebody else around here the other day ran into the "adding cable cards adds just enough extra load to cause problems" problem, and I seem to recall power supply repair fixed it.
> 
> Ask the repairman if he/she used a low ESR replacement. The only acceptable answer is yes.
> 
> Ask them if there was another capacitor in parallel on the same output rail with the one they changed out. (there probably was and it was probably the +5 Volt rail)
> 
> If so, it was in a situation where it was trying to do the work of both and I'd replace it as well just on general principles.
> 
> Get them to look at the +3.3 Volt and +5 Volt outputs with an oscilloscope and watch what happens when a cable card is inserted.


Ok. It just so happens that in the time it took for me to get back here to read this post, my Series 3 is now rebooting without the cable cards in it. I'm going to replace the entire power supply. I've been watching eBay, however, it seems the Series 3 prices are being jacked up due to the holidays. They are going for $70+, so I'll have to wait until next month to find a deal.


----------



## unitron

classygal31 said:


> Ok. It just so happens that in the time it took for me to get back here to read this post, my Series 3 is now rebooting without the cable cards in it. I'm going to replace the entire power supply. I've been watching eBay, however, it seems the Series 3 prices are being jacked up due to the holidays. They are going for $70+, so I'll have to wait until next month to find a deal.


Get your guy to replace the one he replaced *and all the ones in parallel with it* with Low ESR caps rated for 105 degrees Centigrade.

Try it like that for a while.


----------



## debsmusings

Are you still seeing pixelation issues on Comedy Central? I am researching this issue that I have been seeing for over a year and am trying to see if I can document other problems in the TIVO community.

I use FIOS and regularly have pixelation problems with The Daily Show, Colbert Report and TOSH.0


----------



## unitron

debsmusings said:


> Are you still seeing pixelation issues on Comedy Central? I am researching this issue that I have been seeing for over a year and am trying to see if I can document other problems in the TIVO community.
> 
> I use FIOS and regularly have pixelation problems with The Daily Show, Colbert Report and TOSH.0


Chances are whoever you get that channel from has a problem with the satellite downlink during those times, or else Comedy Central has a problem with their satellite uplink.


----------



## debsmusings

unitron said:


> Chances are whoever you get that channel from has a problem with the satellite downlink during those times, or else Comedy Central has a problem with their satellite uplink.


That may be the case. My problem is that its hard to get these kinds of issues percolated to the source of the problem without evidence that multiple users are seeing this problem. So I am wondering how many TIVO users are having pixelation problems with their Comedy Central HD channel. I am on FIOS but I see that other users of other systems also see similar problems.

I am thinking ultimately it could be a comedy central problem. But it won't get treated at the source if I am the only one complaining.


----------



## unitron

debsmusings said:


> That may be the case. My problem is that its hard to get these kinds of issues percolated to the source of the problem without evidence that multiple users are seeing this problem. So I am wondering how many TIVO users are having pixelation problems with their Comedy Central HD channel. I am on FIOS but I see that other users of other systems also see similar problems.
> 
> I am thinking ultimately it could be a comedy central problem. But it won't get treated at the source if I am the only one complaining.


And as long as the uplink and downlink pass through the atmosphere, it may be incurable.


----------



## astroglide

S3 TCD648250B with a single 1TB drive and dual M-cards. It started pixelating, and I've discovered that removing a single card is enough to completely resolve it. No other issues - it works perfect with one tuner, using either card. Is there a typical cause for this symptom? Thx!


----------



## unitron

astroglide said:


> S3 TCD648250B with a single 1TB drive and dual M-cards. It started pixelating, and I've discovered that removing a single card is enough to completely resolve it. No other issues - it works perfect with one tuner, using either card. Is there a typical cause for this symptom? Thx!


One possible explanation is the power supply is falling victim to "capacitor plague", and the extra power demand of the extra card is enough to push it beyond its current ability to reliably supply current.

If it's an S2 or S3 with strange symptoms, suspect the power supply caps, especially the ones on the +5 and +12 V outputs, first.


----------



## astroglide

Popped the top and checked the caps: one leaking, one bulging. Thx for the pointers! I figure I might as well replace all of them, and I see people starting to put lists together in threads like this one. Anyone know if there's a full kit out there for the S3 OLED PSU a la the badcaps.net motherboard kits? Would love to add just one batch item to a cart and check out with confidence. I did email badcaps about it, BTW.


----------



## unitron

astroglide said:


> Popped the top and checked the caps: one leaking, one bulging. Thx for the pointers! I figure I might as well replace all of them, and I see people starting to put lists together in threads like this one. Anyone know if there's a full kit out there for the S3 OLED PSU a la the badcaps.net motherboard kits? Would love to add just one batch item to a cart and check out with confidence. I did email badcaps about it, BTW.


Replacing all of the caps is usually overkill, as it's most often just the ones on the 5 and 12 outs that fail, and the more of them the home gamer has to replace the greater the chances of putting one in backwards or getting two of them swapped, and although unlikely, it's not impossible that there's some other component gone bad (or that there's also a problem that's somewhere other than on the power supply board), so anyone offering a "kit" has to be ready to deal with buyers who come back yelling they've been cheated.


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## astroglide

Okay okay, you've sold me  Ordering just the three bad ones, for now. Thx, unitron!


----------



## unitron

astroglide said:


> Okay okay, you've sold me  Ordering just the three bad ones, for now. Thx, unitron!


Find all of the ones with their negative leads connected to the black wires via the copper on the bottom of the board, and with their positive leads connected directly to either the red or yellow wires, and replace all of them.

Haven't yet had my hands on that particular PS before, so I don't know how many caps that would be, although probably no more than 2 per voltage (i.e., 2 on the red and 2 on the yellow)

Of course any other visually bad (and any that are electrically in parallel with them if you know how to determine that) should also be replaced.

If the place where the negative lead of a cap comes out the bottom of the board is directly connected to where the negative lead of another cap is connected, AND the place where the positive lead goes through is also directly connected to the positive lead of the second cap, that's being in parallel, and if one had gone bad, the other's been trying to do the job of both, and has probably suffered for it.


----------



## GerryFR

I have been having problems with my two HD Tivos (Series 3 and HD) for several years with lost channels and pix-elation. I have had numerous Cox service calls but most ended with replaced cables and with blaming me for putting the coax cables where they could be bent or stepped on. 

The Cox tech, that came out to my house today, fixed my Tivo problem, but it took him about two hours to do it. It seems that there are two sets of channel signals in this Cox system, the older analog signals, and the newer HD signals. The front end of the Tivo, as well as any other tuner device, had an automatic gain control on the input RF signal so that the receiver in the tuning device had the proper signal level going into it. Unfortunately, if these two types of channel signal levels are too far out of balance, the AGC circuitry, in the Tivos, would attenuate the input signals down so that the most powerful signal was adjusted properly but this meant that the lower power signals would get attenuated down to where some of the channel signals would be too low for the Tivo tuners. This would result in pictures breaking up and missing channels. 

The tech took channel signal level measurement on a special spectrum analyzer meter, that he carried, and found that my channel signal levels were severely out of balance. To fix the problem, he put several filters in line with my cable input, which lowered the power level of the higher frequency channels to make all signal levels the same value. Two filters, in series, were required to attenuate the signal enough. Once the signal levels were the same, he then found that both signal levels were now too low to work properly. He then needed to amplify the incoming signals to get them to the proper power level. He did this by putting an amplifier, outside, in front of the outside power splitter and powered it with a power injector module that I power with a standard power supply module in my living room. With the amplifier in place, both of my cable outputs now had the proper power and noise levels. We had to restart all of the Tivo's associated equipment, but once they were running again, my channel and pix-elation problems went away on both Tivos. It took him several hours to do the job, but it was worth the wait. It was ironic, that when these previous Cox techs fixed any "bad" coax cables, that I had, that they actually made the power differential between these two different sets of channel signal levels greater. The higher frequency channel signal levels would improve the most, with the cable improvements, and that would result in the Tivo's AGC circuitry attenuating the input signals even more. That is why my Tivo problems got worse with each service call.


----------



## unitron

GerryFR said:


> I have been having problems with my two HD Tivos (Series 3 and HD) for several years with lost channels and pix-elation. I have had numerous Cox service calls but most ended with replaced cables and with blaming me for putting the coax cables where they could be bent or stepped on.
> 
> The Cox tech, that came out to my house today, fixed my Tivo problem, but it took him about two hours to do it. It seems that there are two sets of channel signals in this Cox system, the older analog signals, and the newer HD signals. The front end of the Tivo, as well as any other tuner device, had an automatic gain control on the input RF signal so that the receiver in the tuning device had the proper signal level going into it. Unfortunately, if these two types of channel signal levels are too far out of balance, the AGC circuitry, in the Tivos, would attenuate the input signals down so that the most powerful signal was adjusted properly but this meant that the lower power signals would get attenuated down to where some of the channel signals would be too low for the Tivo tuners. This would result in pictures breaking up and missing channels.
> 
> The tech took channel signal level measurement on a special spectrum analyzer meter, that he carried, and found that my channel signal levels were severely out of balance. To fix the problem, he put several filters in line with my cable input, which lowered the power level of the higher frequency channels to make all signal levels the same value. Two filters, in series, were required to attenuate the signal enough. Once the signal levels were the same, he then found that both signal levels were now too low to work properly. He then needed to amplify the incoming signals to get them to the proper power level. He did this by putting an amplifier, outside, in front of the outside power splitter and powered it with a power injector module that I power with a standard power supply module in my living room. With the amplifier in place, both of my cable outputs now had the proper power and noise levels. We had to restart all of the Tivo's associated equipment, but once they were running again, my channel and pix-elation problems went away on both Tivos. It took him several hours to do the job, but it was worth the wait. It was ironic, that when these previous Cox techs fixed any "bad" coax cables, that I had, that they actually made the power differential between these two different sets of channel signal levels greater. The higher frequency channel signal levels would improve the most, with the cable improvements, and that would result in the Tivo's AGC circuitry attenuating the input signals even more. That is why my Tivo problems got worse with each service call.


Very interesting and informative. Are all of the "digital" channels fed at a higher frequency than the analog channels on your system? It would seem that the AGC should be reacting in real time to the level of the particular frequency being tuned regardless of the levels of other frequencies.

Of course if the digital channels are interleaved in any way with the analog ones, then strong adjacent channels could perhaps swamp the AGC regardless of modulation scheme.


----------



## dlfl

unitron said:


> Very interesting and informative. Are all of the "digital" channels fed at a higher frequency than the analog channels on your system? It would seem that the AGC should be reacting in real time to the level of the particular frequency being tuned regardless of the levels of other frequencies.
> 
> Of course if the digital channels are interleaved in any way with the analog ones, then strong adjacent channels could perhaps swamp the AGC regardless of modulation scheme.


Would have been interesting to see what Signal Strengths were reported in DVR Diagnostics for the high, low, and medium frequencies (before the tech did all the adjustments). I suspect they would have been outside the ranges where TiVo works properly (roughly 60 to 99) due to too much "tilt" at the cable tap, which means the tech was turning cartwheels to compensate for poor initial setup of the neighborhood distribution system. *lrhorer* has given a detailed explanation of "tilt" here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7604378#post7604378
Of course if neighbors with Cable Co equipment were not experiencing problems this suggests TiVo tuners are just not as robust as they should be.


----------



## astroglide

unitron said:


> Find all of the ones with their negative leads connected to the black wires via the copper on the bottom of the board, and with their positive leads connected directly to either the red or yellow wires, and replace all of them.
> 
> Haven't yet had my hands on that particular PS before, so I don't know how many caps that would be, although probably no more than 2 per voltage (i.e., 2 on the red and 2 on the yellow)
> 
> Of course any other visually bad (and any that are electrically in parallel with them if you know how to determine that) should also be replaced.
> 
> If the place where the negative lead of a cap comes out the bottom of the board is directly connected to where the negative lead of another cap is connected, AND the place where the positive lead goes through is also directly connected to the positive lead of the second cap, that's being in parallel, and if one had gone bad, the other's been trying to do the job of both, and has probably suffered for it.


I'm sorry to report that you've lost me.

I took a couple of pictures, front and back, and circled the three offenders. The primary (C701) is visibly leaking from the pic. The other two (C401 and C402) are lightly bulging. They're obscured here, but they're the only two beneath the heat sink. Based on this information and these pics, could I trouble you to tell me which others you'd replace? Thx!


----------



## unitron

Without either a schematic of it to study, or having it in my hands, I don't know what circuits any of the others are in, so I don't know which ones are likely culprits, if any.

So the best advice I can give under the circumstances of you not being able to figure out what's paralled across the +5 and +12 Volt outputs is to just replace those 3.

Get replacements with the same uF rating, the same or slightly higher voltage rating, rated for 105 degrees Centigrade, and specifically described as being low ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance), and check the height and diameter to make sure they'll fit where the old ones were.

And be sure to observe polarity when putting in the new ones.

Which means putting the - lead where the - lead on the old one was and the + lead where the + lead on the old one was.

Getting it backwards could cause them to explode.


----------



## astroglide

Nod. TYVM again for the pointers.


----------



## GerryFR

I was not given direct access to the channel spectrum meter that the Cox tech was using for testing my cable channels, but from what I could see, the meter was displaying multiple channel levels at the same time. The tech, also, only needed one look to tell that the channel signal levels were unbalanced. This tech specialized in Tivo units and was the first Cox tech that I found that knew this much about these units. 

Before the tech worked on my cable input, I checked the turner information for data on two different channels. One of these channels was working fine, and the other was dropping out. It turned out that both channels were being transmitted on the same switched channel (222). The power level of these two channels were listed as being almost the same, but I do not know if the power level listed was for this particular switched channel or the overall input power level of the combined combined signal levels.

I doubt that the cable amplifiers, being used by cox, amplify each channel individually, and since the higher frequency cable channels would get attenuated the most, going through cable, it would seem likely that these channels would get sent out at higher power levels than the lower frequency channels. Another factor in my problems may be because on my street, all the utilities are underground. The cable box, for our neighborhood, is in my front yard, and so it would figure that I would probably have the highest higher frequency channel power levels in the neighborhood. I know that this box has the main amplifier for this area, because two Cox techs spend most of the afternoon, last year, replacing this amp. Because of these coaxial signal level long distance losses, A Tivo owner, further down the street, may not have had this problem at all. It also turned out that the Tivo (S3), that had the longest Cox cable run (an extra 75 feet) had the least amount of channel problems. Since the cable channels get sent to my Tivos by the Cox Cisco tuners, it would seem possible that these devices may also be part of this problem. 

I have subsequently found out that my HD Tivo continues to have numerous channel videos breaks up and this hangs up the recording on this unit. This Tivo has all of its' channels back, but they all do not work well. Tonight, I attached a coax cable to the input cable, for this Tivo, and ran this 50 foot cable to my S3 Tivo. The S3 Tivo continued to work properly so I may have other problems with the HD Tivo. At least I have one of my Tivos working!

This kind of picture problem is not confined to Tivos, locally. I have friends around 10 miles away from here and they also complain about their Cox channels breaking up and dropping out.


----------



## dlfl

GerryFR said:


> .......Before the tech worked on my cable input, I checked the turner information for data on two different channels. One of these channels was working fine, and the other was dropping out. It turned out that both channels were being transmitted on the same switched channel (222). The power level of these two channels were listed as being almost the same, but I do not know if the power level listed was for this particular switched channel or the overall input power level of the combined combined signal levels.


What do you mean by "channel 222"? Do you mean 222 MHz frequency? The RF frequency applies to a 6 MHz wide QAM channel which may contain 2 to 6 TV channels and may be either SDV or not. I would assume the signal strength reported by TiVo has to apply to the overall 6 MHz QAM channel because the signal never exists as an analog (i.e., RF) signal beyond the QAM channel point -- it is detected as a digital signal and processed digitally from there on to separate the TV channels.

But: what was the signal strength number for "channel 222" ??


GerryFR said:


> I doubt that the cable amplifiers, being used by cox, amplify each channel individually, and since the higher frequency cable channels would get attenuated the most, going through cable, it would seem likely that these channels would get sent out at higher power levels than the lower frequency channels. Another factor in my problems may be because on my street, all the utilities are underground. The cable box, for our neighborhood, is in my front yard, and so it would figure that I would probably have the highest higher frequency channel power levels in the neighborhood. I know that this box has the main amplifier for this area, because two Cox techs spend most of the afternoon, last year, replacing this amp. Because of these coaxial signal level long distance losses, A Tivo owner, further down the street, may not have had this problem at all. It also turned out that the Tivo (S3), that had the longest Cox cable run (an extra 75 feet) had the least amount of channel problems.


What you're discussing is the "tilt" situation as detailed by lrhorer in the post I linked earlier in this thread. And it applies whether the distribution cables are underground or above ground.


GerryFR said:


> Since the cable channels get sent to my Tivos by the Cox Cisco tuners, it would seem possible that these devices may also be part of this problem.


 What are you referring to as a "Cox Cisco tuner"?


GerryFR said:


> I have subsequently found out that my HD Tivo continues to have numerous channel videos breaks up and this hangs up the recording on this unit. This Tivo has all of its' channels back, but they all do not work well. Tonight, I attached a coax cable to the input cable, for this Tivo, and ran this 50 foot cable to my S3 Tivo. The S3 Tivo continued to work properly so I may have other problems with the HD Tivo. At least I have one of my Tivos working!


I would agree with your deduction except for the effect of the 50 foot cable, which like all cables, will change the tilt, i.e., the ratio of high- to low frequency strengths. To rule this out run the end of the added 50 ft cable into the "bad" tivo and see what happens. Again, what actual signal strengths (and SNR and RS Error Counts) are reported for the various channels on the "good" and "bad" TiVo's?


GerryFR said:


> This kind of picture problem is not confined to Tivos, locally. I have friends around 10 miles away from here and they also complain about their Cox channels breaking up and dropping out.


This suggests a general Cox problem, although people 10 miles away are not on the same node as you so different cable plant equipment is involved for them. What about the people within 500 ft of you?


----------



## astroglide

Forgot to reply follow up: I replaced those three caps, and all is well again. Thanks!!


----------



## GerryFR

I fixed the last of my Tivo HD picture breakup problems today. Earlier in the week, I put an attenuator on the input cable line and this got my Tivo out of its' slow motion response to my remote control. The signal level had been sitting at 100, but after the attenuation, the signal level was at 92. Today, I removed the external hard drive from this Tivo and the picture problems all went away. I had run the Tivo hard drive diagnostic program, on this external drive, several times, and it always passed. I guess that I no longer understand what constitutes a bad hard drive on Tivo systems. Since my HD Tivo only has 20 hours of HD video recording, without the external hard drive, I am going to replace this small internal hard drive with a much larger hard drive as I no longer trust external hard drives. 

Since the Western Digital external hard drives are supposed to be built to work like the Tivo hard drives, I wonder why both of the Western Digital external drives, that I have owned, both died in a little over 2 years (out of warranty) while all of my Tivo hard drives (in 4 different Tivo units) lasted between 4 and 5 years.

Jerry


----------



## unitron

GerryFR said:


> I fixed the last of my Tivo HD picture breakup problems today. Earlier in the week, I put an attenuator on the input cable line and this got my Tivo out of its' slow motion response to my remote control. The signal level had been sitting at 100, but after the attenuation, the signal level was at 92. Today, I removed the external hard drive from this Tivo and the picture problems all went away. I had run the Tivo hard drive diagnostic program, on this external drive, several times, and it always passed. I guess that I no longer understand what constitutes a bad hard drive on Tivo systems. Since my HD Tivo only has 20 hours of HD video recording, without the external hard drive, I am going to replace this small internal hard drive with a much larger hard drive as I no longer trust external hard drives.
> 
> Since the Western Digital external hard drives are supposed to be built to work like the Tivo hard drives, I wonder why both of the Western Digital external drives, that I have owned, both died in a little over 2 years (out of warranty) while all of my Tivo hard drives (in 4 different Tivo units) lasted between 4 and 5 years.
> 
> Jerry


The problem with the TiVo-specific WD external drives may not be the actual drive inside the enclosure itself.

It might be the eSATA cable or either of the jacks into which it plugs or maybe it's just the particular span each recording across both drives scheme they use.

Or maybe the enclosure power supply is nothing to write home about.


----------



## Jerry Wilson

I started having this problem a few months ago which gradually got worse. I had the local cable guy out and he replaced the two cards, apparently high quality with gold (quality disputed) plated connections. My picture quality has greatly improved. The pixelation problem seems to of greatly diminished, only time will tell. I will add the the worst pixelation was concentrated on MSNBC.:up:

I would like to add this box goes back quit a few years, note my "Join Date" on the left.


----------



## dlfl

smsm1980 said:


> I am seeing pixelation on my Tivo HD in both HD channels and also on the occasional menu screen.
> 
> I am using Component Video 1080i.
> 
> As much as I hated my motorola box, I rarely if ever noticed HD artifacts. In 3 hours of playing with the HD Tivo I am already annoyed by them.
> 
> The only thing in Tivo's favor right now is that my cable cards are not completely activated so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that maybe the box is off running some process in the background to try to authorize them. But if this continues, the box is going back. I did get the software update with no apparent change.


You should eliminate power supply problems due to "capacitor disease". Open the box and look at the capacitors in the PS. Even slight bulging as shown in the following post (#2) means the cap should be replaced:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8750894#post8750894


----------



## slyone

Just found this thread, My TivoHD has wicked pixelation last few weeks Had timewarner check all levels on line-OK-I had to disconnect tivo its soo bad! WTF! Whats the fix?? Should I get a new one and can I transfer my lifetime??? This is BS & sucks


----------



## SCSIRAID

slyone said:


> Just found this thread, My TivoHD has wicked pixelation last few weeks Had timewarner check all levels on line-OK-I had to disconnect tivo its soo bad! WTF! Whats the fix?? Should I get a new one and can I transfer my lifetime??? This is BS & sucks


Have you watched live and then checked DVR Diags for RS Uncorrected counts? Also monitored Signal to Noise Ratio?

Have u taken a look at the power supply caps for swelling and leakage?

These would be the first things I would do.


----------



## slyone

Hi, no I dont know anything about that? I upgraded the hdd when first bought 5-6 yrs ago & ran a laptop cooler under it. I found when I unplugged cooler at usb it got instantly better but still apparent


----------



## L David Matheny

slyone said:


> Hi, no I dont know anything about that? I upgraded the hdd when first bought 5-6 yrs ago & ran a laptop cooler under it. I found when I unplugged cooler at usb it got instantly better but still apparent


It's hard to imagine that reduced cooling could cure the pixelation, but I suppose the USB laptop cooler could have been generating noise or (more likely) the extra load was causing problems for a marginal power supply in the TiVo. As SCSIRAID said, read up on power supply problems and inspect the power supply capacitors.


----------



## unitron

slyone said:


> Hi, no I dont know anything about that? I upgraded the hdd when first bought 5-6 yrs ago & ran a laptop cooler under it. I found when I unplugged cooler at usb it got instantly better but still apparent


Run the cooler again, but this time power it off of something besides the TiVo's USB jack, and see if it doesn't run the same amount of better.

If so, you almost certainly need to fix the power supply before seeing if there's anything else wrong.


----------



## slyone

hey guys finally able to get back to this (missing lots of shows). Got the ole 565 model fired up hehe. I do have 5 caps slightly bulging upwards, C-501, 502, 504 and C-503 & 403. Ya think this could be my culprit for severe pixelation? I'm thinking I buy the 5 and prolly have a local tv shop guy r&r them. Found this from wobly
Tivo HD Digi-Key PN Manufacturer PN
C501 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
C502 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
C504 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
C403 10V 1000uf RLS 0736 P14378-ND EEU-FR1A102L
C503 10V 1000uf RLS 0736 P14378-ND EEU-FR1A102L


----------



## unitron

slyone said:


> hey guys finally able to get back to this (missing lots of shows). Got the ole 565 model fired up hehe. I do have 5 caps slightly bulging upwards, C-501, 502, 504 and C-503 & 403. Ya think this could be my culprit for severe pixelation? I'm thinking I buy the 5 and prolly have a local tv shop guy r&r them. Found this from wobly
> Tivo HD Digi-Key PN Manufacturer PN
> C501 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
> C502 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
> C504 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
> C403 10V 1000uf RLS 0736 P14378-ND EEU-FR1A102L
> C503 10V 1000uf RLS 0736 P14378-ND EEU-FR1A102L


By 565 you mean 652, right?

There are 2 different HD and HD XL power supplies, made by two different companies, and the cap list for one is not the cap list for the other, however, both lists are on this website somewhere or maybe more than one somewhere.

Consult page 8 of this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473394

and the ones you want to order are...

Skip the biggest one which is rated for 200 Volts--it ony deals with 60Hz to 120Hz frequency, so it's not working very hard, and should still be just fine and very likely to stay that way.

Get replacements for all of the rest of the caps on the board except the really little ones, so, in other words, all those medium size ones near both sides of the heat sink(s).

That way you don't have to worry about replacing 4 or 5 now only to have one or two others go bad in a couple of months from now.

And skim through the rest of that thread until you understand why you need Low ESR caps rated for 105 degrees Celsius.


----------



## slyone

By 565 I meant I'm temp using my old RS-TX20 for now. and Yes, My tivo HD 652-160 has the bad P/S capacitors. It has a 3Y p/s.
update; I ordered the 9 caps from digi & will get 'er done Thanks for the excellent guidance everyone! This board ROCKS!!


----------



## slyone

I received my 9 capacitors today from Digi-key which was very nicely packaged too! I went to a reputable electronics repair shop and had them install in an hr and $50.00. Powered up & found no remote control action? rechecked everything but no luck, tv picture looks good but no way to input to Tivo? I even checked batteries in remote.....any ideas? Thanks


----------



## unitron

slyone said:


> I received my 9 capacitors today from Digi-key which was very nicely packaged too! I went to a reputable electronics repair shop and had them install in an hr and $50.00. Powered up & found no remote control action? rechecked everything but no luck, tv picture looks good but no way to input to Tivo? I even checked batteries in remote.....any ideas? Thanks


Check the ribbon cable from the motherboard to the front panel, make sure it hasn't been dislodged at either end.

Do this with the TiVo unplugged.


----------



## slyone

unitron said:


> Check the ribbon cable from the motherboard to the front panel, make sure it hasn't been dislodged at either end.
> Do this with the TiVo unplugged.


LOL, Thats exactly what it was! I feel soo stupid, the ribbon on board was lifted way up on one side..Thanks! Thanks for all the guidance too Unitron, This is f..ing awesome! Picture looks great again even with all my draws on the usb's. I really kinda wanted to do the soldering myself and almost bought the $50.00 kit at RS today but was apprehensive on possibly screwing it up I never really did any soldering let alone fine detailed work as this.


----------



## unitron

slyone said:


> LOL, Thats exactly what it was! I feel soo stupid, the ribbon on board was lifted way up on one side..Thanks! Thanks for all the guidance too Unitron, This is f..ing awesome! Picture looks great again even with all my draws on the usb's. I really kinda wanted to do the soldering myself and almost bought the $50.00 kit at RS today but was apprehensive on possibly screwing it up I never really did any soldering let alone fine detailed work as this.


It's probably one of the simplest and easiest soldering jobs (except for the TiVo power supplies in the S2s where the heat sink bends over at the top and makes it harder to maneuver the caps underneath), but the important thing is you once again have TiVo.


----------



## slyone

unitron said:


> It's probably one of the simplest and easiest soldering jobs (except for the TiVo power supplies in the S2s where the heat sink bends over at the top and makes it harder to maneuver the caps underneath), but the important thing is you once again have TiVo.


 Exactly Wow, how I've come to depend on dvr-ing and having 2 tuners. just an update, all is working perfectly!!


----------



## DeeSeven

I've had some pixelation issues and what not and finally got most of them either fixed using an attenuator and replacing cables. Now I still get pixelation in some channels can I put 2 attenuators together to see if that would improve it? or am I just wasting my time?


----------



## dlfl

DeeSeven said:


> I've had some pixelation issues and what not and finally got most of them either fixed using an attenuator and replacing cables. Now I still get pixelation in some channels can I put 2 attenuators together to see if that would improve it? or am I just wasting my time?


You can cascade attenuators but you need to know whether signal strength is really your problem. While tuned to a pixelating channel, got to DVR Diagnostics and see what the SNR, Signal Strength and RS Error counts are for that channel.


----------



## slyone

DeeSeven said:


> I've had some pixelation issues and what not and finally got most of them either fixed using an attenuator and replacing cables. Now I still get pixelation in some channels can I put 2 attenuators together to see if that would improve it? or am I just wasting my time?


 Well...after spending a whole 15.00 for top-quality Panasonic caps from digi-key, then another 50.00 for local install and having it work flawlessly(Thanks to this thread), I'd say you're wasting your time.


----------



## guava

slyone said:


> hey guys finally able to get back to this (missing lots of shows). Got the ole 565 model fired up hehe. I do have 5 caps slightly bulging upwards, C-501, 502, 504 and C-503 & 403. Ya think this could be my culprit for severe pixelation? I'm thinking I buy the 5 and prolly have a local tv shop guy r&r them. Found this from wobly
> Tivo HD Digi-Key PN Manufacturer PN
> C501 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
> C502 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
> C504 10V 2200uf RLS 0720 P15323CT-ND EEU-FR1A222LB
> C403 10V 1000uf RLS 0736 P14378-ND EEU-FR1A102L
> C503 10V 1000uf RLS 0736 P14378-ND EEU-FR1A102L


cool, here's my experience:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=515931


----------



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----------



## dlfl

dantruong said:


> My situation-
> Started off with just analogue cable for about a week-- no macro-blocking on analogue channels or QAM, occasional very minor macro-blocking on menus
> Two SA cable cards (s-stream) installed- still no macro-blocking on analogue channels, but now random macro-blocking on hi-def and digital channels, brief, but every 3-10 min, on every hd and digital channel.
> I'm not a expert, but according to my cable tech, I have "excellent" signal strength (he checked it with some kind of meter, both outside, and at the line going into the Tivo box...
> I can also confirm the Tivo shows 100% signal on all channels...
> I don't know if this info will help the experts on the forum narrow down the cause, but I thought it was worth posting my experience--
> I would hope a fix or official announcement from Tivo would happen soon, as everyone seems to be getting different answers from Tivo customer service... I tend to believe Megazone, as he has stated on his blog and in these forums:
> "do note that TiVo is aware of them and is working on additional updates to correct them."


I see from your other post you are using old TiVo software. Get that updated before doing anything else. There are many possible causes for macro-blocking and you are not likely to get much help from either Tivo or cable co support.

It could be a failing hard drive. You have an expander drive so it could be either drive or the expander case electronics or the SATA cable connection. Start by reseating or replacing that cable.

It could be failing capacitors in the power supply, which must be replaced. See this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=473394
Look at the power supply capacitors and see if any are bulging like this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8750894#post8750894

Tivo's will macro-block if the signal is too strong. Since all your channels are at 100 you may have this issue. They may be a lot more than 100. Insert an inline attenuator or additional splitter to decrease the signal.


----------



## HerronScott

I recall this was an issue with Cisco/SA CableCards in the initial release of the Series 3 OLED software that was fixed with one of the first updates.

Scott


----------



## SCSIRAID

dantruong said:


> My situation-
> Started off with just analogue cable for about a week-- no macro-blocking on analogue channels or QAM, occasional very minor macro-blocking on menus
> Two SA cable cards (s-stream) installed- still no macro-blocking on analogue channels, but now random macro-blocking on hi-def and digital channels, brief, but every 3-10 min, on every hd and digital channel.
> I'm not a expert, but according to my cable tech, I have "excellent" signal strength (he checked it with some kind of meter, both outside, and at the line going into the Tivo box...
> I can also confirm the Tivo shows 100% signal on all channels...
> I don't know if this info will help the experts on the forum narrow down the cause, but I thought it was worth posting my experience--
> I would hope a fix or official announcement from Tivo would happen soon, as everyone seems to be getting different answers from Tivo customer service... I tend to believe Megazone, as he has stated on his blog and in these forums:
> "do note that TiVo is aware of them and is working on additional updates to correct them."


Macroblocking on a TiVo menu is very unlikely to have anything to do with your RF signal level or the cablecards. I would expect that kind of effect to be relative to HDCP compatibility between the display and the TiVo.


----------



## dlfl

SCSIRAID said:


> Macroblocking on a TiVo menu is very unlikely to have anything to do with your RF signal level or the cablecards. I would expect that kind of effect to be relative to HDCP compatibility between the display and the TiVo.


But he said he had macro-blocking on "hi-def" and "digital" channels, every 3 to 10 mins. 

I can't imagine how he could still be running 8.2 or 9.2 software, as he stated in another thread,
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10081122#post10081122
but seems like that should be corrected before worrying about any other issue. Software that old must not have the fix for the sdv switching glitch that **you** were instrumental in getting Tivo to fix (and thanks again!).


----------



## SCSIRAID

dlfl said:


> But he said he had macro-blocking on "hi-def" and "digital" channels, every 3 to 10 mins.
> 
> I can't imagine how he could still be running 8.2 or 9.2 software, as he stated in another thread,
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10081122#post10081122
> but seems like that should be corrected before worrying about any other issue. Software that old must not have the fix for the sdv switching glitch that **you** were instrumental in getting Tivo to fix (and thanks again!).


He also said... 'no macro-blocking on analogue channels or QAM, occasional very minor macro-blocking on menus'. This is what led to my comment.

Agree... not sure how he could be on software that old and that certainly needs fixed.

The best way to prove signal issues is to watch live until you see macroblocking and then check DVR Diags RS uncorrected counts (of course check counts when you start the experiment)... assuming the TiVo is on current software. This is the acid test.

You're welcome...


----------



## sepstein

Goodness, not sure if this is answered in 54 pages of forum posts, but I think what I have going on *might* be different.

When tuned to SD channels, no difficulties at all. This includes digital channels. No RS errors, etc.

When tuned to HD channels, the picture pixelates and stutters after a second or two. The sound also stutters. A few more seconds and the TiVo pretty much comes to a halt. I can get the TiVo to become responsive again by removing the cable input. Reattaching the cable input will provoke the issue again (unless I tune to an SD station while the cable is disconnected).

I tried changing the output to native vs. 1080i fixed without resolution.
I tried changing the output from HDMI to component without resolution.

When tuned to the HD channels, I do get a number of RS errors (I'm assuming that RS corrected and RS uncorrected refer to errors). 

Playback of previously recorded HD material is fine - no problems.

TiVo software is 11.0m.

Best guess that I have is that the TiVo is having difficulty recording the HD signal. Signal strength from the cable card is between 86 and 90, and SNR 34. I have not made any changes to the configuration in months, so hard to understand why this is now occuring where the DVR had been symptom free for months. 

Issue with the signal? The hard drive? A software update I wasn't aware of?

A couple of years ago I did have a similar problem and temporarily mothballed the TiVo and upgraded to Premier units. I brought the Series 3 back into service for a guest room and it has been working fine for about a year until now.

Any help appreciated!

Steve


----------



## unitron

sepstein said:


> Goodness, not sure if this is answered in 54 pages of forum posts, but I think what I have going on *might* be different.
> 
> When tuned to SD channels, no difficulties at all. This includes digital channels. No RS errors, etc.
> 
> When tuned to HD channels, the picture pixelates and stutters after a second or two. The sound also stutters. A few more seconds and the TiVo pretty much comes to a halt. I can get the TiVo to become responsive again by removing the cable input. Reattaching the cable input will provoke the issue again (unless I tune to an SD station while the cable is disconnected).
> 
> I tried changing the output to native vs. 1080i fixed without resolution.
> I tried changing the output from HDMI to component without resolution.
> 
> When tuned to the HD channels, I do get a number of RS errors (I'm assuming that RS corrected and RS uncorrected refer to errors).
> 
> Playback of previously recorded HD material is fine - no problems.
> 
> TiVo software is 11.0m.
> 
> Best guess that I have is that the TiVo is having difficulty recording the HD signal. Signal strength from the cable card is between 86 and 90, and SNR 34. I have not made any changes to the configuration in months, so hard to understand why this is now occuring where the DVR had been symptom free for months.
> 
> Issue with the signal? The hard drive? A software update I wasn't aware of?
> 
> A couple of years ago I did have a similar problem and temporarily mothballed the TiVo and upgraded to Premier units. I brought the Series 3 back into service for a guest room and it has been working fine for about a year until now.
> 
> Any help appreciated!
> 
> Steve


Somewhere around here I read something sometime back about clearing something up by temporarily disconnecting the cable.

Yeah, real helpful, I know.

But, maybe you should check that the cable is still properly grounded where it enters the house, and since it is a Series 3, check the power supply's DC output voltages with a voltmeter. Once they start to sag, you can get all sorts of strange symptoms.

Good news is simple soldering job and $10 worth of replacement capacitors will probably straighten that out if that's the source of the trouble.


----------



## MatrixOutsider

I am getting pixelation on a few channels with Fios and a cable card on my Series 3 HD.
This TV is the primary TV and is fed from a line going in to the house and a splitter.

The problem started two weeks ago and is getting worse. On some channels, the signal goes from 0 to 56 and is not steady. The SNR is hovering around 31. I changed cables, but the problem remains.

Also, my Roamio in another room is fed from the same splitter, but it is getting excellent signal with no pixelation. My conclusion is that the Series 3 HD Tivo has a defective power supply. Is this correct? Can I replace the whole supply or should I just replace the capacitors?


----------



## FaFaFooey

I was having horrible, unwatchable pixelation on all my HD and SD channels that started getting worse over the course of the week. I called time warner assuming it was a poor signal kind of problem. The tech came out to check the line and said the signal was fine and it must be my HD XL. In turn, I bought signal amplifiers and attenuators, because I'm stubborn and didn't believe what the tech told me. I thought it had to be the signal. I tried swapping/upgrading the hard drives, which I was planning on doing anyway.

In the end, it turned out to be the power supply. I swapped it with an old one from a dead HD XL unit and no more pixelation. Crystal clear.


----------



## bicycleguy

I too had unwatchable pixelation starting around January 9, 2017. See my post about it in the Bad Cap thread #534.

Hard to believe, but changing the caps out, even with a poor FIOS signal fixed it. Ya!


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## Gold51

I have 2 Series 4 units and having a 2nd was a troubleshooting aid- I set them on the same splitter going to the same TV and restarted them. I quickly ruled out the TV antenna or coax as the culprit to my pixelation problems. Thankfully, the bad one is on a monthly plan and I am eligible to send it to Tivo for a $50 refurbished box. That is what I am doing, if the tech dept can't fix it over the phone. The signal is showing much lower to the tuners on the bad Tivo. 40+ years ago, I thought nothing of putting a new color picture tube in my TV, but his balky Tivo hasn't even aroused my curiosity enough to get my screwdrivers, DVM and soldering iron out.


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