# Premiere DVRs, it just isn't worth it!



## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

After doing some research and reading some forums posts, it is quite obvious that Tivo is retiring older product lines for a "new and improved" unit that is cheaper to produce. But the thing is, you aren't getting much for the outrageous price. $300 and $500 for a unit that does everything a TivoHD does?  I do see where the interface might be slightly more responsive and supports higher resolutions, but for the cost????

Initially I was considering purchasing a Premiere unit until I realized that I am spending money for no extra features. A new and improved interface and slightly faster screen response just isn't worth. 

Now if my units were old and there were some really great features that I didn't have, that would be different. But as of right now, what DVR feature does a Premiere have that my TivoHD doesn't? There is none!

Now be honest, how much time do you really spend using the new interface? 

Tivo button, Tivo button, down, select -> programs play. And how is the premiere better????????

Just my 2 cents.


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## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

This user interface "fetish" people have is way overrated.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

StringFellow said:


> After doing some research and reading some forums posts, it is quite obvious that Tivo is retiring older product lines for a "new and improved" unit that is cheaper to produce. But the thing is, you aren't getting much for the outrageous price. $300 and $500 for a unit that does everything a TivoHD does?  I do see where the interface might be slightly more responsive and supports higher resolutions, but for the cost????
> 
> Initially I was considering purchasing a Premiere unit until I realized that I am spending money for no extra features. A new and improved interface and slightly faster screen response just isn't worth.
> 
> ...


The Premiere has way more under the hood. It also adds the convergence of video providers into it's search engine. Look for "Lost", and it will find it on your channels, _and_ in Netflix.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mp11 said:


> This user interface "fetish" people have is way overrated.


I use the UI about 1% of time that I use the TiVo itself for viewing recorded programs, so the HDUI does very little for me but i do love the PIUI, It would have had more advantage if HDUI went to the top of the screen to show more Programs in the now playing list (the SD menu has 8 lines the HDUI has only 9 lines).


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

I'm gonna give it a shot, an if it doesn't measure up then it's going back 2 BB


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## threeonparfive (Jun 25, 2004)

For me, the fact that they gave an upgrade price with no new contract or extension required to upgrade my last remaining Series 2 TiVo was all I needed. Even though the new HD interface is a buggy POS at this point, they will get it fixed. The Series 3s sucked at first too...just the way it is. Be a little more tolerant people. For now, I just have mine in SD GUI mode which is fast as hell. I'm perfectly happy. Now I'm just anxiously awaiting Pandora which is far more important to me than the HD GUI.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

StringFellow said:


> After doing some research and reading some forums posts, it is quite obvious that Tivo is retiring older product lines for a "new and improved" unit that is cheaper to produce. But the thing is, you aren't getting much for the outrageous price. $300 and $500 for a unit that does everything a TivoHD does?  I do see where the interface might be slightly more responsive and supports higher resolutions, but for the cost????


The Premiere is improved over the HD in almost every way, even if it's unfinished and still has some bugs. $300 and $500 were the same list prices for the HD and XL until they started clearing them out. So why is that outrageous?


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## xboard07 (Dec 16, 2007)

The new interface should have been much more complete upon launch. There is zero excuse for their lack of doing so.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

Yeah, Tivo took the Microsoft approach of "we have an incomplete and/or buggy product that we'll push out and fix as we go".

They _should_ have delayed the launch, or at least delayed with the option for those of us who would be willing to take the early version with the pre-release software and help test it in the wild. And maybe throw in a Tivo plush doll for helping them test the thing out? I think that would have made early adopters happy to have it "early", and prevented those that don't like an unfinished product from getting it.

Of course I'm sure there was a Best Buy commitment that made this impossible.

With that said, my fingers are crossed that this will be a moot point in a week or so, and we'll look back at the launch and laugh.


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## Noogie (Mar 10, 2010)

Yes, the HDUI should have been finished on launch, but that in itself is not a showstopper. The reports of UI crashes, extreme slowness after a few days, reboots and hangs that require power cycles are what is keeping me from getting one. I realize that people with problems are the most vocal, but the variety of issues and # of complaints is just too much to ignore right now.


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## ciucca (Jun 29, 2004)

StringFellow said:


> After doing some research and reading some forums posts, it is quite obvious that Tivo is retiring older product lines for a "new and improved" unit that is cheaper to produce. But the thing is, you aren't getting much for the outrageous price. $300 and $500 for a unit that does everything a TivoHD does?  I do see where the interface might be slightly more responsive and supports higher resolutions, but for the cost????
> 
> Initially I was considering purchasing a Premiere unit until I realized that I am spending money for no extra features. A new and improved interface and slightly faster screen response just isn't worth.
> 
> ...


I was in the same boat as you, I had a pre order for a premiere XL. I checked around and found Moxi. I bought a 3 tuner Moxi with the mate and I am blown away! I am even thinking of getting rid of the TivoHD my wife uses and replace it with another Moxi. She was impressed when she saw the Moxi I bought, and is pressuring me to swap DVRs.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

orangeboy said:


> The Premiere has way more under the hood. It also adds the convergence of video providers into it's search engine. Look for "Lost", and it will find it on your channels, _and_ in Netflix.


Which is exactly how the "Tivo Search" works on Series 3/TivoHD. Hence, not a new feature.


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## urwathrtz (Jan 18, 2008)

Ehh, no thanks.
1. I convinced the wife to let me buy a TiVoHD 2 years ago. Clearly she's not gonna let me spend another $300.
2. When they let me transfer the lifetime sub from my series 1, then yes I will get a Premiere. Don't see that happening....ever.


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## y2flyy (May 19, 2006)

urwathrtz said:


> Ehh, no thanks.
> 1. I convinced the wife to let me buy a TiVoHD 2 years ago. Clearly she's not gonna let me spend another $300.
> 2. When they let me transfer the lifetime sub from my series 1, then yes I will get a Premiere. Don't see that happening....ever.


URWARTHRTZ you don't need to buy a tivo, YOU NEED TO BUY SOME PANTS
and stop letting your women wear them lol

Why the hell does a grown man have to ask "PERMISSION" from his wife to buy a gadget?

C'mon bro thats disgraceful!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

xboard07 said:


> The new interface should have been much more complete upon launch. There is zero excuse for their lack of doing so.


I'll take the Premiere "as is" any day over any S3/TiVoHD. I will be selling all my S3/TiVoHD boxes. I've already transitioned to the premiere boxes. I just need to enter a few more season passes.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I've already transitioned to the premiere boxes. I just need to enter a few more season passes.


Out of curiosity, how many season passes do you have across all eight boxes?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

gweempose said:


> Out of curiosity, how many season passes do you have across all eight boxes?


Half of them are duplicated. I have no idea how many. Over 40 but less than 60.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

if you are saying you only want Tivo to record stuff and don't need the UI or what not, then why not just get a cable DVR?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Mike-Mike said:


> if you are saying you only want Tivo to record stuff and don't need the UI or what not, then why not just get a cable DVR?


Blasphemy!!!


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

It's quite clear. 

If you have a S3 TiVo you'd be nuts to buy a S4 right now. If you have anything else, I'd buy a S4, but use the old UI for 4 months or so 'til they get it to a "mediocre" beta level; which it SHOULD be at already.

Plus, maybe TiVo will realize their disaster, fix things, and come out with a three tuner unit with extenders like they SHOULD have in the first place.

ALL that time, ALL that money, ALL that research......and TiVo gives us this?

Sad really.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

My story: I have a Series 3; pre-ordered a Premiere XL; read the reviews and the info on this forum; cancelled the pre-order; Tivo confirms the cancellation but ships anyway... So I started using the Premiere. Though the initial speed was definitely faster than the speed I noticed last night, I still feel it is worth my $400 for the following reasons:
- I went from a 250 gb to a 1T hard disk
- My SDV channels now come in reliably. Before I often had to channel up/channel down for them to come in, and occasionally I would just lose them while watching (and had to channel up/channel down again for them to come back)
- the HDMI 1.3 is much more reliable than my S3 HDMI was (same issues as above with SDV but now with sound)
- The full Netflix integration is awesome (no need anymore to first screen the Instant View selection of Netflix for possible taste matches and then adding to queue before Tivo would display & play the movie(s))
- I really like the Discovery bar. It is definitely made for casual viewers like me. 
- I'm saving myself a whopping $2.50/month as I use a single M-card versus 2 S-cards previously
- I do believe the Premiere will only get better and better over time. I only have experience with the Series 3 (bought ~ 3.5 yrs ago) but it was horrible in the beginning as I had huge pixelation problems. Within 3-4 months Tivo pushed through 2 or 3 software updates and one of them did the trick. 
- They were one of the first with Netflix integration and I can't wait for Pandora to show up


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Mike-Mike said:


> if you are saying you only want Tivo to record stuff and don't need the UI or what not, then why not just get a cable DVR?


Been there did that, I will stay with TiVo as i can upgrade (at least on the Series 3) the storage space and i do like the TiVo UI SD much better than the cable DVR.


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## Goldwing2001 (Sep 30, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> I'll take the Premiere "as is" any day over any S3/TiVoHD. I will be selling all my S3/TiVoHD boxes. I've already transitioned to the premiere boxes. I just need to enter a few more season passes.


I agree with you 100%. I'm very happy with the Premiere and looking forward to it getting better with updates. Reports of UI crashes, extreme slowness, reboots, and hangs just hasn't happen to me.


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## whitepelican (Feb 15, 2005)

mvnuenen said:


> - The full Netflix integration is awesome (no need anymore to first screen the Instant View selection of Netflix for possible taste matches and then adding to queue before Tivo would display & play the movie(s))


I'm curious how this is any different than the Series 3. On my Series 3's, I use the Tivo Search all the time to find things in Netflix and then start playing them immediately. They don't need to be in my Netflix queue. Is it just that many people never realized the Series 3s/TivoHDs had this capability?


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

whitepelican said:


> Is it just that many people never realized the Series 3s/TivoHDs had this capability?


That could be very well true, and in that case I stand corrected. I never used the Wish list or any advanced Search functions in the S3 so I never saw the Netflix integration anywhere else but the folder with my queue. With the Premiere I am discovering the non-queued Netflix movies through the Discovery bar and suggestions.


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## urwathrtz (Jan 18, 2008)

y2flyy said:


> URWARTHRTZ you don't need to buy a tivo, YOU NEED TO BUY SOME PANTS
> and stop letting your women wear them lol
> 
> Why the hell does a grown man have to ask "PERMISSION" from his wife to buy a gadget?
> ...


Dude, I have a closet full of some really nice skirts. Man, I hate my life.


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## MichaelJHuman (Aug 3, 2005)

I bought a Premier rather than fix my Series 3 for $150. It seemed reasonable to get on the latest platform.

I am mostly pleased with my purchase. I did have one total lockup so far. And I can't turn it off and still get audio like I could with the series 3. It also has 1 TB internal, without having to deal with an external drive, which had it's problems. And those were giving me 750 MB Max, I think.


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## NickDG (Apr 4, 2010)

New Premiere owner here. This is my first Tivo. I have a replayTV in the bedroom and have had Comcast DVRs for years.

When the Premiere was announced I had to jump on it. The Comcast iGuide was driving me nuts.

So far a I am loving it. The software is new so I expect it to be much improved over time, but for now it's not that bad. I am still using the HDUI but might switch over to the classic UI if I get too frustrated.

Even with the not-so-good HDUI this thing blows the Comcast Motorola DVR out of the water. I am more concerned about accurate guide data which Comcast fails to provide consistently.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

The UI will get better. I think it will be a fine box once they get it updated. I have faith in TiVo to fix everything and make a fine UI. They just should have been a little farther along than this with the release. It'll be great by the end of the summer (or so).

I'd have a PreXL right NOW, if it had a third tuner. I think the Moxi model of a "central" box with streaming to Extenders is the way to go.

ONE STB, ONE contact point to cable, ONE cablecard

I'm going to hold off a while and hope TiVo realizes it's two-tuner mistake on the XL.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

y2flyy said:


> URWARTHRTZ you don't need to buy a tivo, YOU NEED TO BUY SOME PANTS
> and stop letting your women wear them lol
> 
> Why the hell does a grown man have to ask "PERMISSION" from his wife to buy a gadget?
> ...


obviously u dunt have much experience with the ladoes... "If mama ain't happy then no bodies happy"

U can take that 2 da bank bucko


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

So. When can we expect for the HD menus to be fully implemented?


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## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

orangeboy said:


> The Premiere has way more under the hood. It also adds the convergence of video providers into it's search engine. Look for "Lost", and it will find it on your channels, _and_ in Netflix.


Yeah, but you can do all of that with the TiVo search beta on the S3.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mbernste said:


> Yeah, but you can do all of that with the TiVo search beta on the S3.


The S3 is alot slower


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## y2flyy (May 19, 2006)

urwathrtz said:


> Dude, I have a closet full of some really nice skirts. Man, I hate my life.


LOL good response URwathrtz


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## brasscat (Mar 31, 2002)

gamo62 said:


> So. When can we expect for the HD menus to be fully implemented?


I didn't pay too close attention to it over the past years, but it seems like TiVo comes out with a big revision twice a year, with smaller (transparent) updates throughout.


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

It is funny. Quite a few people are in my boat...not sure the cost is worth the upgrade. Then there are the others that love the PXL, but really don't give a reason why. 

Personally I will stick with my TivoHDs until the Premiere has most of the bugs worked out and some worthwhile features are added. And hopefully at that time the cost of the units won't be so high.

In regards to the person who commented that the Premieres are the same price as the earlier models....computer component prices are constantly falling and personally I feel (based on the specs of the box) the units are over priced. Ex. The XL with a larger drive, THX certified, and a different remote costing $200 more! Come on!! The difference in the drives/storage is maybe $50 and a $20 difference in cost for the remote. Where does the other $130 go? THX, maybe but highly doubt it.


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## jameslmoser (Apr 8, 2010)

I haven't experienced crashing or anything yet, but the new interface is all over the place, confusing, and obviously not even half finished. This is horrible. It took them years to do this? I thought the Flash interface was suppose to improve their development time.

And where are the features? The only new thing on this is that the search works with netflix, bestbuy, etc. Where is the additional video format support? Multi room viewing without having to transfer? itunes/wmp/dnla integration?

I wish someone from Tivo would officially acknowledge they know there are a lot of disappointed people and they have and actual plan (with time line) on what they are going to do about it... if I don't hear anything I am probably sending mine back before those 30 days are up... so disappointed...


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> The S3 is alot slower


u own 16 Tivo's??? u r brother to Bill Gates or what?


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

jameslmoser said:


> I haven't experienced crashing or anything yet, but the new interface is all over the place, confusing, and obviously not even half finished. This is horrible. It took them years to do this? I thought the Flash interface was suppose to improve their development time.
> 
> And where are the features? The only new thing on this is that the search works with netflix, bestbuy, etc. Where is the additional video format support? Multi room viewing without having to transfer? itunes/wmp/dnla integration?
> 
> I wish someone from Tivo would officially acknowledge they know there are a lot of disappointed people and they have and actual plan (with time line) on what they are going to do about it... if I don't hear anything I am probably sending mine back before those 30 days are up... so disappointed...


AS with the S3 it took many firmware upgrades to get the thing working half way as intended, appears the same will apply with this new an improved Tivo #4?


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

jameslmoser said:


> I haven't experienced crashing or anything yet, but the new interface is all over the place, confusing, and obviously not even half finished. This is horrible. It took them years to do this? I thought the Flash interface was suppose to improve their development time.
> 
> And where are the features? The only new thing on this is that the search works with netflix, bestbuy, etc. Where is the additional video format support? Multi room viewing without having to transfer? itunes/wmp/dnla integration?
> 
> I wish someone from Tivo would officially acknowledge they know there are a lot of disappointed people and they have and actual plan (with time line) on what they are going to do about it... if I don't hear anything I am probably sending mine back before those 30 days are up... so disappointed...


Thanka for the heads up, I'd hate being in the same boat as you, an ending up returning the freakin thing, then have to wait another month for the refund from BB


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

Series 2 will do more than the new version. Just does not have HD. You get a loss of features.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

satmaster said:


> Series 2 will do more than the new version. Just does not have HD. You get a loss of features.


I don't get the joke


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

StringFellow said:


> Tivo button, Tivo button, down, select -> programs play. And how is the premiere better????????
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


if that is all you do then you spent too much for the TiVo HD as well


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## spclkaz (Jan 30, 2008)

The PXL is overpriced for what it is... as the previous purchaser of FIVE TIVO units, all with Lifetime Subscriptions and a devoted TIVO user, the new unit is simply NOT worth the cost of upgrading, even with the "discount incentives" to previous owners to encourage the upgrade.

While the cost of upgrading to a modest increase in capability is already high, when you add in the buggy software, it becomes even less of a bargain...

No wonder TIVO is losing market share... over 700,000 subscribers in the last year alone... that's MY 2 cents...


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## eddieb187 (Jan 17, 2009)

spclkaz said:


> The PXL is overpriced for what it is...


I'm not a Tivo fanboy and I'm not crazy about the current state of my recently purchased Premiere XL with all the bugs. The SD menus are fast though.
However, with the discount I recieved, I don't think the XL is overpriced.
I'd gladly pay $399. to avoid the ripoff monthly rental fees most cable cos charge for their poor excuse of a DVR.
My cable co charges over $20. a month for a DVR and dvr service. It's very buggy and you can't even swap between tuners. The buffer clears.
Even in it's current state, my Tivo XL's SD interface is elegant and very fast compaired to their offering.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

i lurked on these forums for a month, and i have been posting for about a month. and all of these S3HD or original S3 owners who love to hate on the TP & TPXL sound like a jealous ex girlfriend or boyfriend. If you don't want to upgrade that's fine, but what is the point of constantly complaining and bashing? And regardless you all act like there is no other market for TiVo than current subs. I have never had a TiVo and I am looking forward to ordering my PXL. If you use OTA & Netflix, TiVo is easily the best choice, and the Premiere is their best offering. The world does exist outside of your bubble, if you choose not to upgrade that does not mean TiVo is going to fail. And quite frankly if you do have a S3HD or an older TiVo and you do love your TiVo, you should want them to succeed.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Mike-Mike said:


> If you don't want to upgrade that's fine, but what is the point of constantly complaining and bashing?


People would really like to have everything perfect out of the box. Fair enough, those people shouldn't buy right now. Or if they did they should take it back and get a refund. Almost nothing arrives perfect on day one.

The iPad arrived months after it was first shown and it still has problems. The Premiere shipped just weeks after its introduction. Shocking that there would be problems.

Should TiVo have waited? Maybe. I certainly don't feel a need to upgrade today, but I'm glad that if my S3 dies tomorrow (heaven forbid) I'll be able to replace it with a TiVo Premiere that will be able to support all the latest features for the foreseeable future.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Mike-Mike said:


> i lurked on these forums for a month, and i have been posting for about a month. and all of these S3HD or original S3 owners who love to hate on the TP & TPXL sound like a jealous ex girlfriend or boyfriend. If you don't want to upgrade that's fine, but what is the point of constantly complaining and bashing? And regardless you all act like there is no other market for TiVo than current subs. I have never had a TiVo and I am looking forward to ordering my PXL. If you use OTA & Netflix, TiVo is easily the best choice, and the Premiere is their best offering. The world does exist outside of your bubble, if you choose not to upgrade that does not mean TiVo is going to fail. And quite frankly if you do have a S3HD or an older TiVo and you do love your TiVo, you should want them to succeed.


I am one of the people that own the Series 3 and a TiVo-Hd and I am now testing the PXL and to say the PXL only has problems because I am jealous is a XXXXX comment, the Series 4 P or PXL HAS problems using the HDUI for well over 80% of the users trying it out, being jealous has nothing to do with these problems, and who every said we, on this form, want TiVo not to succeed, from my view the best hardware TiVo ever made was the original Series 3, with software upgrades the S4P or PXL may, at some point, be a better system with the HDUI, but it's not there yet. Speed in the SD menu part is not that important, as my Series 3 can go through my long now playing list in about .75 of a second, the Series 4 in SD may take .4 seconds, both are fast enough to not be annoying, the HDUI taking a few seconds is annoying. The hang ups are far more annoying, especially the circle of death. The Series 3 also gives no audio noise when changing HD channeles that are sending out 5.1 audio, the TiVo-HD had a lot of noise on some audio systems and the Series 4 has much less noise but not zero noise as the Series 3 has.


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

I said "if you don't want to upgrade" so Les you are clearly not who I was directing my comments at, seeing as you have upgraded to a PXL, I said the HD or S3 owners who are NOT upgrading and are constantly complaining saying there is no point in having the new box. Regardless of it's flaws, there is a laundry list of improvements in hardware over the previous version. And as I said, upgrades are not TiVo's only customer base by any means.

Now if you have upgraded and are citing problems you have experienced, that is perfectly reasonable IMO. But these forums are flooded with HD and older users who are still complaining about not having a need to upgrade. No one is forcing these users to upgrade, if they choose not to, then that is fine. But I grow tired of constantly reading about people saying there is no point to upgrade and Tivo is losing people or how they are going to fail. The post from SPCLKAZ above is what triggered it, but I really do not want to single him/her out seeing as t here are 100's of posts just like that one.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Mike-Mike said:


> ... but I really do not want to single him/her out seeing as t here are 100's of posts just like that one.


Wonder why?


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

you clearly aren't reading either


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I find all the upgrade comments strange. I don't Tivo ever intended for everyone to want to upgrade to the series 4. I kind of doubt a design goal was to make all the existing customers want to upgrade. Tivo makes more money if you don't upgrade. The series 4 is just the next version of Tivo. It was never meant to be the Tivo that replaced all existing Tivo's.

If you think about it Ford comes out with a new Truck every year. But no one sits around saying I don't think the '10 has enough new features for me to trade in my '09.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> I find all the upgrade comments strange. I don't Tivo ever intended for everyone to want to upgrade to the series 4. I kind of doubt a design goal was to make all the existing customers want to upgrade. Tivo makes more money if you don't upgrade. The series 4 is just the next version of Tivo. It was never meant to be the Tivo that replaced all existing Tivo's.
> 
> If you think about it Ford comes out with a new Truck every year. But no one sits around saying I don't think the '10 has enough new features for me to trade in my '09.


How do they make more money if i don't upgrade? I have six lifetime TiVoHD/S3 units. They make no more money from me unless I upgrade. Which is what I did. Eight Premiere units, Six Lifetime. Strictly because of the generous upgrade offer.

And even when I sell the old boxes, they won't be making any more money off of them. At least not directly.


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## mvnuenen (Jun 1, 2007)

StringFellow said:


> ...Then there are the others that love the PXL, but really don't give a reason why.


In this very thread I gave you my reasons why. They might not apply to you or many others but at least I substantiated my reasons and took the time to write it down. Here is another one: I like to have the latest gagdets. Entertains me for a while and keeps me out of the bars. The latter saves me probably much more than $400 too. SO worth the upgrade!


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

Agreed...This is the first new model of Tivo that I haven't wanted to go out and purchase immediately upon its release. It looks like they are going to have the same problem that has plagued Tivo since its inception -- convincing people why they need it. I'm a Tivo loyalist and I can't see any benefit to the new interface and search capabilities, even if the implementation wasn't buggy.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

As an owner of two S3's, I happily replaced a S2DT with a premier and am happy using it with SD menus, although it does have some bugs.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

parzec said:


> Agreed...This is the first new model of Tivo that I haven't wanted to go out and purchase immediately upon its release. It looks like they are going to have the same problem that has plagued Tivo since its inception -- convincing people why they need it. I'm a Tivo loyalist and I can't see any benefit to the new interface and search capabilities, even if the implementation wasn't buggy.


Agreed. This isn't about jealousy, etc. This is about TiVo setting the bar low for this upgrade and hitting below the mark even further.

TiVo needs us (especially lifetime users) to upgrade to this new box but at the moment there is little to no reason to do the upgrade beyond faster MRV.

If TiVo had completed their HD UI with multi-threading prior to the launch as well as a few other common sense features (streaming?? hello!!) you would see users being much more excited about this new box.

I want TiVo to succeed because I like their products, this product though in its current incarnation is a dud. I suspect that even though a number of users have run out to buy these that on the whole TiVo is going to continue to bleed subscribers at an alarming rate.

Maybe they can hold on long enough for someone with some sense to come in and run the company more effectively, and bring compelling products to the market.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I should add that what drives people TO TiVo away from their cable company DVR in the first place is the improved stability of the TiVo as well as features TiVo has (MRV, etc) that Cable Co DVRs don't have.

The problem is that Motorolla, Moxi and other Cable Co provided DVRs continue to close the gap, while TiVo seems to do very little to out distance competitors.

And remember, the TiVo in most cases is a premium cost over your rented Cable Co DVR. $700 for a TiVo with lifetime takes about 4 years to break even on the investment. Not to mention warranty issues (Cable Co will swap or upgrade your box as often as you like), etc.

A lot of us are not "jealous", we are not "whining", we are geniunely concerned about the direction TiVo has taken with the Premiere.... instead of a fresh re-write of their software that could possibly have broken cross platform compatibility but introduced tons of exciting new features, they have elected to "play it safe" and offer extremely tiny, incremental feature improvements.

In a year's time they might discover that they seriously mis-calculated in making this decision.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

jmpage2 said:


> I should add that what drives people TO TiVo away from their cable company DVR in the first place is the improved stability of the TiVo as well as features TiVo has (MRV, etc) that Cable Co DVRs don't have.
> 
> The problem is that Motorolla, Moxi and other Cable Co provided DVRs continue to close the gap, while TiVo seems to do very little to out distance competitors.


Actually, TiVo has some catching up to do.
Between family members, I have 10 TiVo's on my account, so I am far from a bashers, but the facts speak for themselves.

This launch is amazing. Are there really any new, first time, users for TiVo?
Given the stability problems, wouldn't they just get returned?

If it is not happening, then the buyers must be experienced TiVo folks who have the patience to wait for some fixes.

- Rich


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## aaroncgi (Apr 13, 2010)

jmpage2 said:


> I should add that what drives people TO TiVo away from their cable company DVR in the first place is the improved stability of the TiVo as well as features TiVo has (MRV, etc) that Cable Co DVRs don't have.
> 
> The problem is that Motorolla, Moxi and other Cable Co provided DVRs continue to close the gap, while TiVo seems to do very little to out distance competitors.
> 
> ...


Actually, what drove us to Tivo had nothing to do with stability or features, it was monthly cost, pure and simple. A Tivo (unlike Moxi) allows us to completely do away with satellite or cable and record OTA. Our $700 investment will be paid off in only 16 months. Any time after that is free TV for us. Or, you could average it out over the expected life of the Tivo box... at least three years as that's our warranty, but we're hoping it's longer.

We could have gone super cheap and gotten a Magnavox H2160MW9, but that's not remotely a fair comparison to the Premiere - no HD, no network connection, only a single tuner, etc.

I realize we're in a very small niche, but the Tivo seems to be the only product which fits our needs. Cable/satellite provider monthly fees have gotten obscenely out of hand, and Tivo allows us to do away with those while still maintainining all of the functionality we have grown accustomed to - albeit with less channels.


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