# Advantages of Tivo over Cable DVR?



## Sandlapper (Oct 26, 2003)

I need some help in a argument with some buddies. Help me out Tivo people!


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## Moebius (Nov 25, 2002)

Speaking as someone who has and uses both:

Software
Ease of Use
GUI
Overall functionality

The motorola box I have from Comcast (iGuide I think but not sure) doesn't hold a candle to TiVo in any function except that it has dual tuners and HD capability. Otherwise I wouldn't have it.


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## maki (Oct 23, 2003)

Agree with Moebius.

I've heard from a number of people who are disappointed with their generic DVRs.

One had a directivo and got one of the directv DVRs after the split and they were so disturbed by it they called and complained until directv said they'd ship back a tivo unit.

It sounds like there's all kinds of minor but careless slips in the design and functionality of them: Buttons that don't do what you would want them to, "it's laggy, menus are scrunched, uncreative, unresponsive, not organized" (to quote). Says his directv DVR cancels a recording on the second tuner if you're watching live tv and don't _accept_ the "about to change the channel" dialog.

He said the only benefit was a large hard drive and "caller id." Obviously, there's a 180hour TiVo.


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## Sandlapper (Oct 26, 2003)

Those are some of the things I brought up. The problem is, unless they ever use a Tivo they can't truly understand how much better the Tivo is. To them they just both record TV.


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## PanamaGixxer (Oct 22, 2004)

TIVO's interface/software is fantastic. I tried a cable DVR because of HD in Memphis. Well, I tried 3 and they all were "broken" - never worked correctly, locked-up, etc. So I am biased and again the software rules. Once you get TIVO, you won't want to try anything else - can't wait for HD/Cable.


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## maki (Oct 23, 2003)

Sandlapper said:


> The problem is, unless they ever use a Tivo they can't truly understand how much better the Tivo is. To them they just both record TV.


TiVo still has a 30 day guarantee don't they? If you could convince them to at least try it...


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Sandlapper said:


> I need some help in a argument with some buddies. Help me out Tivo people!


What are your buddies trying to compare to? There's so much totally unrelated cable co DVR software out there.


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## retired_guy (Aug 27, 2004)

Moebius said:


> Speaking as someone who has and uses both:
> 
> Software
> Ease of Use
> ...


Couldn't agree more, but the HD and 5.1 sound plus dual tuner are big, big strengths. I've got one because of those factors, even though the software leaves a lot to be desired, particularly regarding stability. Can't wait for that S3.


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## rhanson (Dec 21, 2001)

One thing to understand about the cable co DVRs is they are cable boxes first and DVRs second. Almost everything is done in terms of cable box thinking.

One of the things that drives me nuts is the fact that I can't turn off the program that is on the channel the box is tuned to. Its always on the screen, in the upper right corner when I go into the DVR functions or the guide functions. The best I can do is mute the sound.

The 'Now Playing' section on Tivo just shows you the programs that have been record without anything else playing on the screen.

Rich 
Brooklyn


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## tedbill (Feb 12, 2002)

How about point out things that the cable cos won't be offering in the near future, if at all. Examples: TiVo to go, HME applications, Yahoo apps, video downloads through TiVo or TiVo to come back, hosted games.


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## thechiz (Oct 3, 2005)

rhanson said:


> I can't turn off the program that is on the channel the box is tuned to. Its always on the screen, in the upper right corner when I go into the DVR functions or the guide functions. The best I can do is mute the sound.


To each his own.

I think that this is a good feature of my HD cable DVR !


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## maki (Oct 23, 2003)

Although live tv still shows when using the guide on a TiVo (I like it that way), I think the menus and now playing list are a place that should be left in silence.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The one thing that sets Tivos head and shoulders above all other DVRs is the maturity of the software. It just does everything better than any other DVR on the market. You won't find any other DVR that can handle season passes as intelligently as a Tivo, not to mention wishlists and other notable Tivo features.

The Tivo knows when to record a show and when not to. Most other DVRs will simply record a time slot where it thinks your show should be based on the settings you input at initial setup for any recurring program. A Tivo will avoid recording a show if it sees a conflict and record it at another time if there are multiple showings of a particular program. It will also know when a show is being aired on a different night and make the necessary adjustment to record that episode as well.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Until the Series 3 comes out the cable box (for HDTV) has no competition, for non HD recording the Series 2 DT has it all over the cable box DVR except for the cable Co unlimited on sight warranty. The only other reason the Cable box non HD DVR can beat the Series 2 is if you are using a lot of digital services like sport packages and movie services (HBO etc) than the Cable box DVR will let you record 2 Digital channels at the same time (Can't do that with the S-2 DT) and you will not have to fuss with the IR blasters and you will have one less box to control (the TiVo).


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Tivo is the best at scheduling by far. ReplayTV is the best by far for what you can do once you have recordings - very flexible playback with skip to anywhere or auto commercial skip plus anything else you want to do with the recordings such as stream to another room, download to PC, send to a friend etc. etc. Both are better than any of the cable DVR solutions out there in terms of software and functionality.


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## maki (Oct 23, 2003)

ReplayTV doesn't sell boxes anymore though.


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## Georgia Guy (Feb 21, 2003)

rhanson said:


> One of the things that drives me nuts is the fact that I can't turn off the program that is on the channel the box is tuned to. Its always on the screen, in the upper right corner when I go into the DVR functions or the guide functions. The best I can do is mute the sound.


Or, you can hit "pause". That's what I do when I really don't want to see some part of a show I'm planning to watch.

I agree with the other poster, "to each his own"...the playing box in the corner is mostly an advantage, not a disadvantage, to me.

Tivo is FAR superior UI-wise. My Moto6412 is far superior (for me) because of the HD picture. Why else have a widescreen HD tv? But I still love my Tivos...all of 'em.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Certainly not putting down Tivo as I'm a fan, but after getting a TWC 8300HD box for HD (Passport software version), I'd have trouble honestly convincing friends to go with an S2 rather than this cable box. I've only had it for a week, so cannot account for long term reliability, but it has:

1. two tuners (any channels)
2. 90 hours (only one quality)recording that has superior PQ than Tivo Best PQ.
No A/D conversion
3. HD capability, 20 hrs HD recording 
4. Suprisingly good software, although not quite as good as Tivo's
5. No setup, no phone lines, no box charge, $8.95/mo.

Hard for Tivo to compete with that, unless box proves to have reliability problems, making all of the above worthless.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The S3 will compete on every single one of those points except the cost. So really the only choice you'll have to make is if the better UI, and increased feature set (i.e. MRV, TTG, etc...), are worth the cost to you. For me the answer is 100% yes. For you it might be different.

Dan


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> The S3 will compete on every single one of those points except the cost. So really the only choice you'll have to make is if the better UI, and increased feature set (i.e. MRV, TTG, etc...), are worth the cost to you. For me the answer is 100% yes. For you it might be different.
> 
> Dan


We were talking about convincing others that Tivo is better than cable box. At this point, S2 is not in most ways, and I could not honestly encourage others to get an S2 instead of cable box. I like HMO and TTG, but it's pretty hard explaing even what those things are to the average consumer.

When S3 comes out, we'll see about cost, and how well it works. My decision will have to wait until then, but it will still be a pretty hard sell to the average guy...


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Until the Series 3 comes out the cable box (for HDTV) has no competition,


That's only true if you're talking strictly cable. The HDTivo for OTA recording has no peer, IMHO.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

lessd said:


> Until the Series 3 comes out the cable box (for HDTV) has no competition...





mr.unnatural said:


> That's only true if you're talking strictly cable. The HDTivo for OTA recording has no peer, IMHO.


Huh? What HDTiVo?


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

TiVo Troll said:


> Huh? What HDTiVo?


HDTiVo is the common name for the HD DirecTiVo.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

terryfoster said:


> HDTiVo is the common name for the HD DirecTiVo.


OIC, yeah! 

But the HD DirecTiVo being phased out.

Also, antenna OTA is different from cable "OTA" which in turn is different from DirecTV (or Dish) "OTA".


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

TiVo Troll said:


> Also, antenna OTA is different from cable "OTA" which in turn is different from DirecTV (or Dish) "OTA".


Huh? OTA commonly refers to receiving "local" broadcast transmissions with an antenna. Cable doesn't have OTA at all. D* and E* both use the common definition for OTA for local digital stations until they finish including those stations in their satellite streams.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

The number one advantage in my book for the S2 TiVo is the ability to record a show on one TiVo and then be able to watch it via any other TiVo in the house. We have 3 TV viewing areas in our house.

main Family room, Kids play room and the Master Bedroom. Each area TiVo records the shows specific top that area. So a prime example in our house is that the Kids TiVo records lots of kids shows. There are times it is better for the kids to watch something downstairs instead. Waiting for the school bus or Mom wants to keep an eye on them or someone else isdoing something in the playroom etc..
No need to fuss about it. The kids can easily pick up the remote and grab a show off their TiVo and start watching it downstairs.

wnat to finish watching a show but feel like getting in bed is another great use of MRV - along with the transfer from puased point. Notice how the great UI and little ease of use designs come into play here as well.

in a nutshell TiVo will always be competing by putting out the best DVR it can. Cable Companies just put out some DVR to check off the feature on their list of stuff they need to compete with. 

then there is TTG and HME that I highly doubt will come to a cable company DVR any time at all but are features I make use of all the time


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> But the HD DirecTiVo being phased out.
> 
> Also, antenna OTA is different from cable "OTA" which in turn is different from DirecTV (or Dish) "OTA".


Who said the HDTivo is being phased out? That's a total misconception. DTV just renewed their agreement with Tivo for another three years which means all DTivos will be alive and well and fully supported for at least another three years. After that it's anybody's guess. I rather doubt that DTV would alienate their loyal Tivo customers and force them to go with an inferior DVR. If they tried then most likely you'd see a grand exodus of DTV customers migrating to cable and the S3 Tivo or Motorola box with Tivo software.

OTA means "Off The Air". Neither Dish nor DTV carries OTA signals but retransmits the local network affiliates via the satellites. There is no such thing as cable OTA or DirecTV/Dish OTA since neither provider transmits their broadcasts via terrestrial broadcast towers.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> Who said the HDTivo is being phased out? That's a total misconception. DTV just renewed their agreement with Tivo for another three years which means all DTivos will be alive and well and fully supported for at least another three years. After that it's anybody's guess. I rather doubt that DTV would alienate their loyal Tivo customers and force them to go with an inferior DVR. If they tried then most likely you'd see a grand exodus of DTV customers migrating to cable and the S3 Tivo or Motorola box with Tivo software.


You're mistaken. DirecTV has agreed to support TiVos for another couple of years, but the hardware is still being phased out. Not only that but DirecTV is switching the majority of their HD programming over to the MPEG4 format, which the TiVo does not support. Once that happens the only HD you'll be able to record with the HD DirecTiVo will be OTA stuff.

Dan


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> Who said the HDTivo is being phased out? That's a total misconception. DTV just renewed their agreement with Tivo for another three years which means all DTivos will be alive and well and fully supported for at least another three years. After that it's anybody's guess. I rather doubt that DTV would alienate their loyal Tivo customers and force them to go with an inferior DVR. If they tried then most likely you'd see a grand exodus of DTV customers migrating to cable and the S3 Tivo or Motorola box with Tivo software.


I would be interested in the details of this agreement, but I'd guess it only includes guide data for the DirecTiVos. The issue of phasing out DirecTiVos is related to MPEG4. I could be wrong, but I don't think TiVo is developing any new hardware for DirecTV and I believe the new MPEG4 compression requires hardware changes. Hence the "phase out" of the DirecTiVo. Sure you will be able to continue to use the DirecTiVo, but you won't get all the new channels especially the new HD locals.



mr.unnatural said:


> OTA means "Off The Air". Neither Dish nor DTV carries OTA signals but retransmits the local network affiliates via the satellites. There is no such thing as cable OTA or DirecTV/Dish OTA since neither provider transmits their broadcasts via terrestrial broadcast towers.


First off DTV is Digital TV, second E* and D* both incorporate OTA into their HD DVRs so users can record local stations along with the satellite signals.


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## jmatero (Apr 9, 2003)

IMO there are only 3 advantages the Cable Co's DVR has over TiVo (well, at least the 8300HD from Cablevision):

1. Can Record HD
2. Can easily add additional external storage
3. Can order Movies on demand (Can't with Series 3..well, there's always Netflix)

3 doesn't bother me... neither does 2 for that matter.... 1 was the deal-breaker for me so I'm on a temporary "TiVo Hiatus". After using TiVo for YEARS and getting the 8300HD last night, it's not THAT bad... but definitely not a perm. solution for me.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> You're mistaken. DirecTV has agreed to support TiVos for another couple of years, but the hardware is still being phased out. Not only that but DirecTV is switching the majority of their HD programming over to the MPEG4 format, which the TiVo does not support. Once that happens the only HD you'll be able to record with the HD DirecTiVo will be OTA stuff.


Just because DTV stopped making HDTivos and will eventually be offering their mpeg4 DVRs in favor of the HDTivo doesn't mean the HDTivo will be "phased out." The standard def DTivos have already been "phased out" in favor of the R15 according to your interpretation yet you can still get them from DTV and numerous other sources and activate them on your account. DTV will still be activating HDTivos long after the switch to mpeg4. I predict that the HDTivo will be around for many years to come. If they were truly being phased out as you suggest then DTV would simply stop allowing any future activations of the hardware.

I currently do not subscribe to the HD package on DTV because the offering is pathetic. The few HD channels I get via the sat are included in my current subscription package and are the only ones I recorded when I did have the HD package. If DTV starts cutting off the few HD channels from the mpeg2 premium packages they'll have a serious problem with their customers. If and when they ever decide to get serious about their HD channel lineup I will consider switching to mpeg4 but I don't see it happening in the very near future. I plan on using the HDTivo for a long as possible, even if it means not being able to record DTV HD channels. I'm sure DTV won't have a problem if I continue paying for the DVR service and the mirroring fees for my HDTivos even if I only want to record OTA programming, which is pretty much all I do with them now.



> First off DTV is Digital TV, second E* and D* both incorporate OTA into their HD DVRs so users can record local stations along with the satellite signals.


DTV also stands for DirecTV in most related forums. E* and D* incorporate OTA tuners into their hardware but do not provide OTA programming as part of their service.



> I could be wrong, but I don't think TiVo is developing any new hardware for DirecTV and I believe the new MPEG4 compression requires hardware changes. Hence the "phase out" of the DirecTiVo. Sure you will be able to continue to use the DirecTiVo, but you won't get all the new channels especially the new HD locals.


Like I said, just because they no longer make a product doesn't mean it's being phased out. Microsoft stopped manufacturing UTVs years ago yet you can still activate them with DTV. When something gets phased out it means that the hardware is obsolete and no longer serves any useful purpose. This is definitely not the case with DTivos or HDTivos. I'm sure DTV would love to see 100% of their customer base make the switch to mpeg4 when it becomes available but I wouldn't hold my breath. The only ones I expect to see take the plunge initially are those markets not currently able to receive HD locals via OTA antenna. Once you've seen how good the OTA HD PQ is compared to DTV's current HD offerings you'll be inclined to stick with what you already have.

I already get more HD locals than DTV can offer me so where's the incentive to switch to mpeg4 hardware? If DTV cuts off support for the HDTivo and tells me I have to switch over to their mpeg4 DVR you can bet I'll be beating a path to get digital cable or FIOS when it becomes available in my area.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> Just because DTV stopped making HDTivos and will eventually be offering their mpeg4 DVRs in favor of the HDTivo doesn't mean the HDTivo will be "phased out."


Your idea of "phased out" is obviously differnt then mine. To me when a company stops manufacturing a product, and starts pushing a different product, then that original product is being phased out. For example you can still use a Series 1 TiVo just fine, but in my mind they where phased out years ago.

Dan


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> OTA means "Off The Air". Neither Dish nor DTV carries OTA signals but retransmits the local network affiliates via the satellites. There is no such thing as cable OTA or DirecTV/Dish OTA since neither provider transmits their broadcasts via terrestrial broadcast towers.


I think they may be talking about QAM signals, which are "broadcast" networks over cable, similar to "cable ready tuners" for analog stations.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> DTV also stands for DirecTV in most related forums. E* and D* incorporate OTA tuners into their hardware but do not provide OTA programming as part of their service.


Yes DTV may mean DirecTV, but people rarely use that anymore with the confusion with Digital TV. You may want to join the modern acronym world and use D* to avoid confusion.



mr.unnatural said:


> Like I said, just because they no longer make a product doesn't mean it's being phased out. Microsoft stopped manufacturing UTVs years ago yet you can still activate them with DTV. When something gets phased out it means that the hardware is obsolete and no longer serves any useful purpose. This is definitely not the case with DTivos or HDTivos.


You have a weird definition of "phased out." Think of Windows 98. It was supported by Microsoft until July of this year. You don't believe that Windows 98 was being phased out before July? I agree that "When something gets phased out it means that the [product] is obsolete," but I completely disagree with "and no longer serves a useful purpose." Windows 98 was obsoleted by XP, but it still served a useful purpose for those unwilling to upgrade to XP, and yet was being phased out.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with the use of the term "phased out" as we both have differing notions of what it means. DirecTV (I'll spell out the name so as not to confuse you further) may have ceased manufacturing the older models and have thereby phased them out of production (which is where I believe you're coming from) but they haven't been phased out as far as the consumer is concerned. In my mind, "phased out" means that DirecTV will no longer support the aforementioned hardware, which could not be further from the truth. 

D* and E* are both terms that were coined by the satellite hacking community many years ago, which is why I don't find their use appropriate here (I understand where they came up with E* but the D* spinoff just seemed half-a$$ed to me and I never use it for that reason). They should also not be considered "modern" acronyms but are actually somewhat dated. I liked it better when we just referred to them as Dave and Charlie.  

DirecTV stopped making HDTivos (that's a Hi-Definition DirecTV receiver with Tivo functionality in case that acronym confuses you as well) quite a while ago yet they're still selling and supporting them. They no longer sell S1 DTivos yet they still activate them. My point being that just because they are now making mpeg4 hardware doesn't mean that the mpeg2 hardware is not still viable nor will it be obsolete in the near future.

The analogy of Windows 98 vs. XP is invalid because there are far too many other factors at play. Win98 is essentially obsolete unless you are running older hardware and software, but many people do still use it. It probably couldn't run most of the current applications and definitely wouldn't run many of the latest games. DTivos will become obsolete only when DTV (sorry, I meant DirecTV) shuts down the mpeg2 datastream. HDTivos will still function as OTA receivers, although unable to record anything unless DirecTV will continue to provide the DVR service for them.

I personally still use Win2K because I prefer the interface better than XP and find it to be a very stable platform, at least as far as Windoze OSes are concerned. I think Microsloth overstepped themselves and bloated WinXP with too much extra crap. It's fine for the novice user but experienced PC users would mostly prefer to install separate apps that work better than the crap MS includes.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

ReplayTV's can still be activated. So can UltimateTV's. So can DirecTV TiVo's. So what! They're history.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with the use of the term "phased out" as we both have differing notions of what it means. DirecTV ... may have ceased manufacturing the older models and have thereby phased them out of production (which is where I believe you're coming from) but they haven't been phased out as far as the consumer is concerned. In my mind, "phased out" means that DirecTV will no longer support the aforementioned hardware, which could not be further from the truth.
> ...
> DirecTV stopped making HDTivos ... quite a while ago yet they're still selling and supporting them. They no longer sell S1 DTivos yet they still activate them. My point being that just because they are now making mpeg4 hardware doesn't mean that the mpeg2 hardware is not still viable nor will it be obsolete in the near future.


I think you're missing the active versus passive tense. I'm not saying the MPEG2 hardware isn't viable, obsolete, or phased out. I'm saying it is currently being phased out. We agree that HDTiVos can still be used, but my point is their usefulness is beginning to decrease and it is foreseeable, that at some point, HDTiVos will become useless for receiving D* programing.

Realistically, MPEG2 hardware has become obsolete for some users that demand new HD programing and HD locals to be offered without an antenna. Yes, yes I completely agree that the quality of video available OTA beats the pants off of D*'s picture quality, but some people don't want to invest in the antenna necessary to receive their "local" broadcasts.

Also, I'm sure that D* has weighed the possible loss of die hard HDTiVo fans versus the cost of the bandwidth necessary for keeping all the new HD programing including all the HD locals on MPEG2. Unfortunately it appears that the die hard TiVo fans have lost.


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## etemple (Oct 26, 2003)

For me, tivo is clearly the better option because I have analog cable, no HD, no box. But in trying to convince my parent to give tivo a chance, the one problem I keep running into is the 1 year service agreement. My parents don't want to commit to something for an entire year when they aren't sure they'll like it. I know they'll like it, but it's not my dime, and I live 2500 miles away so they can't see how great tivo is by checking out my set-up.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Even with the one year commitment there is still a 30 day trial period. So they can try it for 30 days and if they don't like it they can cancel penalty free.

Dan


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> I think you're missing the active versus passive tense. I'm not saying the MPEG2 hardware isn't viable, obsolete, or phased out. I'm saying it is currently being phased out. We agree that HDTiVos can still be used, but my point is their usefulness is beginning to decrease and it is foreseeable, that at some point, HDTiVos will become useless for receiving D* programing.


Perhaps if I understood your definition of "phased out" we could get away from hijacking this thread. DTV has ceased production on the HDTivos as well as the S1 DTivos, S2 non-RID DTivos, and S2 RID DTivos, yet they are all still in use and supported by DTV so forgive me if I'm not seeing much "phasing out" taking place. I also don't see where the HDTivo's usefulness has decreased one bit since they were first introduced. They still do everything today that they could do back then so how is that an indication of being either phased out or less useful?

I think you've got it backwards. DTV programming (again, that's DirecTV and not digital TV, just so you know) is currently "useless" (i.e., less desirable as a source for HD viewing and therefore getting less use in my household) for reception in its current state, not the other way around, at least when compared to OTA reception in my area. When DTV switches over all HD programming to mpeg4 then the HDTivo will still be able to receive mpeg2 programs as well as HD OTA broadcasts, which is pretty much all I use it for now so it will be business as usual as far as I'm concerned.

The mpeg2 channels aren't going to disappear in the next few years, if ever. I don't believe it was ever DTV's plan to completely "phase out" the mpeg2 hardware but it could conceivably happen in the next decade or so when the existing satellites reach the end of their lifecycle. If DTV ever changes over the existing mpeg2 channels to HD mpeg4 then I will gladly opt for one of the new HD DVRs, but I still plan on keeping my "useless" HDTivos for local OTA channels. I will concede, however, that the HDTivo will be useless for receiving mpeg4 HD programming but that's already a given.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> Perhaps if I understood your definition of "phased out" we could get away from hijacking this thread.


Webster Dictionary Definition of "Phase Out"


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

so the OP can now have an argument with his buddies over what "Phased out TiVo DVR models" means


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## JoeTivo25 (Sep 1, 2004)

My $.05 (adjusted for inflation) . . .

I will be loyal to my Series 2 Tivo until the end, but recently switched to Cox and its dvr becuase of an unscheduled move (thanks to Katrina). The Cox dvr is a Motorolla with software by Pioneer. Love the fact that it is free, can record 2 HD Channels at once, its free, the picture quality is superior to my tivo, and its fairly intuitive (but nothing will be as simple as tivo). And its free.

When the Series 3 comes out, I will give it a good hard look, and my decision to purchase will be based upon price. 

The really really annoying thing about the Cox DVR . . . No Folders. It drives me nuts. Also, there are not suggestions as with my Tivo. Those are really my only complaints about the Cox DVR.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

JoeTivo25 said:


> My $.05 (adjusted for inflation) . . .
> 
> I will be loyal to my Series 2 Tivo until the end, but recently switched to Cox and its dvr becuase of an unscheduled move (thanks to Katrina). The Cox dvr is a Motorolla with software by Pioneer. Love the fact that it is free, can record 2 HD Channels at once, its free, the picture quality is superior to my tivo, and its fairly intuitive (but nothing will be as simple as tivo). And its free.
> 
> ...


Pretty much my feeling about the TWC SA8300.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

JoeTivo25 said:


> The really really annoying thing about the Cox DVR . . . No Folders. It drives me nuts. Also, there are not suggestions as with my Tivo. Those are really my only complaints about the Cox DVR.


 Passport Echo 2.7 actually does have folders and also the ability to filter out channels in the guide you don't want to see. Currently though only select Cox markets have chosen to update to 2.7 (you are likely on 2.5). In general though it seems the Passport Echo software compares favorably to Iguide, SARA, Moxi, MSFT and other cable co. DVR software. I have a web page devoted to DCT64xx with Passport Echo in case you haven't seen it already:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html


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## JoeTivo25 (Sep 1, 2004)

Wow - what a great site. Thanks for the link. How do you like Version 2.7?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

JoeTivo25 said:


> Wow - what a great site. Thanks for the link. How do you like Version 2.7?


 Unfortunately my market hasn't upgraded to 2.7 yet either. :down: Information on 2.7 however is known from anecdotes from Cox Kansas City users posting in AVS forums as well as from Aptiv Digital web site info.


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## etemple (Oct 26, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Even with the one year commitment there is still a 30 day trial period. So they can try it for 30 days and if they don't like it they can cancel penalty free.
> 
> Dan


Yeah, I know . . . 
but it's still a year commitment vs. no commitment with the cable dvr. Plus the cable dvr is a few bucks cheaper on top of that.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by mr.unnatural
> Perhaps if I understood your definition of "phased out" we could get away from hijacking this thread.
> 
> Webster Dictionary Definition of "Phase Out"


I still don't see where DTV is phasing out anything, according to Webster's definition of the term. They simply ceased production which, according to the definition, means that it should be referred to in the past tense and not the future tense as you guys keep arguing. If they were actually phasing out the HR10-250 then they would have decreased production over a period of time until they stopped altogether, which is clearly not the case. Here are the various statements made regarding the phasing out of HDTivo production:



> To me when a company stops manufacturing a product, and starts pushing a different product, then that original product is being phased out.


True enough, if that were actually the case here, but the HR10-250 has already ceased production. The thing is, DTV has nothing but vaporware to replace it with at the moment so there is little or no "phasing in" of a replacement at this point in time.



> But the HD DirecTiVo being phased out.


The operative terms are "being phased out" which implies that it is still in production when, in fact, the HDTivo ceased production quite some time ago. The whole point of my argument is that nothing is "being phased out" but that the "phasing out" process is already over and done with.

I have no inside knowledge that DTV ever slowed production on the HR10-250 but that one day they simply stopped making them. If someone has the actual production figures over the last year or so while they were being manufactured and actually show there was a slowdown in output from the factory then it could be said that it was being phased out.

Now, can we stop pummeling the deceased equine?


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## JoeTivo25 (Sep 1, 2004)

I guess time will tell, but the general consensus from the people on this board is that dtv plans to sever its relationship with tivo. Although it will continue to make it available, the Direct HD Tivo will not have the full capabilities of its own Directv DVR (e.g. mpeg4).


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

moyekj said:


> Passport Echo 2.7 actually does have folders and also the ability to filter out channels in the guide you don't want to see. Currently though only select Cox markets have chosen to update to 2.7 (you are likely on 2.5). In general though it seems the Passport Echo software compares favorably to Iguide, SARA, Moxi, MSFT and other cable co. DVR software. I have a web page devoted to DCT64xx with Passport Echo in case you haven't seen it already:
> http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html


I hace passport 2.1 on my TWC SA 8300. I heard they beta-tested a newer version that enabled the SATA external port for extra storage, but that it did not work very well. I'm not sure about accuracy of this, however. Does 2.7 have the SATA port enabled?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

skanter said:


> I hace passport 2.1 on my TWC SA 8300. I heard they beta-tested a newer version that enabled the SATA external port for extra storage, but that it did not work very well. I'm not sure about accuracy of this, however. Does 2.7 have the SATA port enabled?


 Don't know specifically about the SA boxes with Passport Echo. For Motorola DCT64xx boxes with Passport Echo Cox future plans called for enabling SATA port were listed but AFAIK has not materialized into anything and now Cox signed a partnership with TVGuide which means eventually we will be transitioned to the crappy Iguide software. That was what really prompted my interest in the Tivo S3 even more now. By many accounts I have seen and from AVS Forum threads the Iguide software is just terrible so it will be good to have the S3 as an option.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with the use of the term "phased out" as we both have differing notions of what it means. DirecTV (I'll spell out the name so as not to confuse you further) may have ceased manufacturing the older models and have thereby phased them out of production (which is where I believe you're coming from) but they haven't been phased out as far as the consumer is concerned.


You obviously didn't listen to the D* quarterly results call. They are ABSOLUTELY phasing out the HR10-250 in every sense of the word.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Sorry, I must not have gotten the memo to listen in to the conference call. Did they indicate when the DTV mpeg2 channels would cease being broadcast? Did they indicate a timetable for changing over completely 100% to mpeg4 (I'm talking about every current mpeg2 channel in their lineup)? Did they indicate a date when they would definitely stop supporting any Tivo-based DVRs?

When DTV has announced firm dates when these things will occur then I will believe that they are indeed phasing out the HDTivos, and even then I'll take it with a grain of salt. Once they realize how much opposition there will be from their customers they may end up having a change of heart (not that they actually have one). Not everyone will want to deal with having a new 5-LNB dish installed, not to mention having all of their hardware replaced. I think you'll see diehard DTivo owners leave DTV en masse if they try to cut them off, myself included.

If, in fact DTV does make a complete transition to mpeg4, that still doesn't mean you won't be able to use your HDTivo for OTA recepion. If DTV will still allow their customers to keep the DVR service active on the HDTivos then we can still use them for OTA recording as well. The only issue I see is whether DTV will be using new access cards and an updated datastream for the mpeg4 hardware, making it impossible for the DVR tier to be activated on the older cards. I'd have no problem paying DTV the monthly DVR and mirroring fees to enjoy the same Tivo functions I now have. If DTV refuses to support the DVR service for these units then you can bet the hacking community will figure out a way to enable the DVR functions so we can at least use them for manual recording.


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## 72morgan (Jan 24, 2005)

*Advantages of Tivo over Cable DVR? *

I have Tivo Basic on a Pioneer 810-H and Comcast DVR for Hi-Def while I wait for the series 3 to come out. This is *TIVO BASIC* compared to a fully functional Comcast *DVR*.

A) Comcast`s TV guide is wrong. Has wrong episode info or sometimes a totally different show. Can not trust the guide to tape what you want.
B) Comcast / Motorola DVR will shut down in mid taping , then restart. I was wondering why shows would be taped in 2 parts . A 42 min segment and an 18 min segment.
C) Changing between channels with the Comcast remote is slower.
D) Comcast remote does not respond. press fast forward and I can not stop it. I will press play / pause repeatedly , rewind ....Nothing , it will fast forward for a minute then all the play , stop , FF and rewinds that I hit will kick in in a matter of 10 seconds.
E) I have replaced the unit 6 times so far , for different reasons . One of which is that when I turn it on , I can not watch TV. I have to watch a TV show I recorded and then switch to live TV, to make it work.
F) The Comcast TV Guide is as basic and minimal as can be. Tivo Guide gives actors, directors and producers names, when it was first run plus too much more than I can put down here
G) My mother has Regular Tivo. When a baseball game goes into extra innings, Tivo will and has adjusted the schedule so that the show that follows the game that she wanted to tape is not missed.

I only have this Comcast piece of cr*p ,because I bought a 62" DLP and I want to watch in Hi-Def. There is no way this *POS* stays in my house once the series 3 comes out.

I have had *NO * issues with the Tivo, Comcast sucks, I use them side by side on a daily basis and I can not wait for the Series 3 to come out!!!!!


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## dbtom (Feb 14, 2002)

jmatero said:


> IMO there are only 3 advantages the Cable Co's DVR has over TiVo (well, at least the 8300HD from Cablevision):
> 
> 1. Can Record HD
> 2. Can easily add additional external storage
> ...


I completely agree with you. I have the 8300, but still have my other 3 Tivos running in different rooms.

One other advantage for the Cable Company DVR is that it's one box. Cablevision likes to reset their cable boxes for some reason. You have to manually turn it back on. If you forget, Tivo just records a blank screen. I just spent about 20 minutes sorting through a rarely used Tivo where half of the programs were empty. It would be nice if Tivo could detect when it is recording nothing. That was a real pain. Then again, with the 8300 you can never be sure when or why it is erasing shows.

I really love Tivo, but HD is a key feature for me.


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## 72morgan (Jan 24, 2005)

> 3. Can order Movies on demand (Can't with Series 3..well, there's always Netflix)


That made me think of :

H) On Demand would not work on any of my first 5 boxes. Finally on number 6 it did. So I am watching a show and it says to see this episode with additional deleted scenes go to ON DEMAND. I do , so of course the show is not there, What a piece of sh*t!!!!
I) Put Simply Tivo works well and does more!!! Comcast does not work and what it does do, it does less !!!!


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

72morgan said:


> *Advantages of Tivo over Cable DVR? *
> 
> I have Tivo Basic on a Pioneer 810-H and Comcast DVR for Hi-Def while I wait for the series 3 to come out. This is *TIVO BASIC* compared to a fully functional Comcast *DVR*.
> 
> ...


I've had a different experience when using Comcast's dual tuner hi-def Motorola DCT 6412 DVR. What software (EPG style) does yours run? Mine uses *MS Foundation Edition*.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

72morgan said:


> G) My mother has Regular Tivo. When a baseball game goes into extra innings, Tivo will and has adjusted the schedule so that the show that follows the game that she wanted to tape is not missed.


I don't get this one. Are you saying that when a program exceeds its time slot the Comcast DVR automatically increases the recording time? I know the TiVo has no idea if a show exceeds its time slot and will start recording the next show, but I didn't know that other DVR products had this ability.


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## 72morgan (Jan 24, 2005)

I have a Motorola DVR. I am in Connecticut. I have no idea what software it uses.... How do I find out what software it uses....



> I don't get this one. Are you saying that when a program exceeds its time slot the Comcast DVR automatically


I was referring to my mom`s Tivo. When a show is supposed to start at 11 PM and the Yankees run late,she has gone to bed and she has told me she`s been surprised to see her show recorded even though it may have started at 11:30 pm


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

72morgan said:


> I was referring to my mom`s Tivo. When a show is supposed to start at 11 PM and the Yankees run late,she has gone to bed and she has told me she`s been surprised to see her show recorded even though it may have started at 11:30 pm


Can anyone confirm this functionality? My lowly series 1 doesn't have such a feature.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo has no such feature, and there is no way it could as there is nothing in a normal NTSC signal to mark the start or end of a program. (I believe they do have such a system in the UK thought)

This was probably just an effect of good guide data. If the station knew the game was on before a popular show, and that show was most likely going to get pushed, then they could simply reschudle it for 11:30pm and alert the data providers. The TiVo would then get the new data and record the show at 11:30 instead of 11:00.

Dan


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo has no such feature, and there is no way it could as there is nothing in a normal NTSC signal to mark the start or end of a program. (I believe they do have such a system in the UK thought)
> 
> This was probably just an effect of good guide data. If the station knew the game was on before a popular show, and that show was most likely going to get pushed, then they could simply reschudle it for 11:30pm and alert the data providers. The TiVo would then get the new data and record the show at 11:30 instead of 11:00.
> 
> Dan


So, a TiVo that gets guide data over the internet, rather than dial up, checks multiple times a day for updates or would this rescheduling have to occur well before the game time? What kind of lead time does an internet connected TiVo need for it to react to a show being rescheduled? Since my lowly S1 is still on dialup and I have never seen this kind of behavior, do these last minute guide updates happen often?


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo has no such feature, and there is no way it could as there is nothing in a normal NTSC signal to mark the start or end of a program. (I believe they do have such a system in the UK thought)


XDS can be used to mark start / end of programs via NTSC in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Data_Services

However, networks don't use / fill in XDS data beyond what they are required to (for example for V-chip functionality) and a few other specific uses of their own ... very few CE products can even display (much less use) XDS guide data so it's not worth the trouble / time / effort.

Plus for Tivo to use it they'd have to synch the XDS data with their own guide data which would be a PITA ...

Wouldn't be surprised if PSIP (unfortunately) went down the same path. PSIP _could_ be used to automatically extend / change recordings ... but ... not by using just what broadcasters are required to populate. Broadcasters would have to start filling in the extra / additional / optional tables ... which isn't likely to happen.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

72morgan said:


> I have a Motorola DVR. I am in Connecticut. I have no idea what software it uses.... How do I find out what software it uses....


See if *this* is helpful.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

terryfoster said:


> So, a TiVo that gets guide data over the internet, rather than dial up, checks multiple times a day for updates or would this rescheduling have to occur well before the game time? What kind of lead time does an internet connected TiVo need for it to react to a show being rescheduled? Since my lowly S1 is still on dialup and I have never seen this kind of behavior, do these last minute guide updates happen often?


A network connected TiVo polls the TiVo servers every 15 minutes, so it's possible for them to force an emergency guide update, but they don't. Networked TiVos get their guide data via a daily call just like phone connected TiVos. The only thing I have seen them use the frequent check for is sending out a PTCM telling people that a last minute conflict has come up and to watch out for it. (like when the president decides to give a last minute speach)

Dan


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

Thanks Dan!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> Sorry, I must not have gotten the memo to listen in to the conference call.


Guess not.

Seems like the only memo you got was the "put your head in the sand about DirecTV's plans to phase out the DirecTivos".


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> ... The only thing I have seen them use the frequent check for is sending out a PTCM telling people that a last minute conflict has come up and to watch out for it. (like when the president decides to give a last minute speach)
> 
> Dan


Don't forget it's also used for online sheduling of programs.


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