# When is new Tivo coming out?



## phantom5777 (Mar 10, 2007)

During Christmas shopping a Best Buy salesperson told me that Tivo is coming out with a new HD unit that will "blow away" the current units currently on the market. I've searched the forums and can't find anything.

I was about to buy an HD unit, but stayed with my comcast HD/DVR (hate it) figuring I would wait until Spring to see what the new unit is all about.

Anyone out there have any info?

Thanks


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Best Buy guy didn't know what he was talking about. Nothing's been announced.


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

I'm wondering if the Best Buy Salesdroid was thinking about the the Tivo HD XL, which is basically a Tivo HD with a 1TB hard drive and the Glo remote. 
https://www3.tivo.com/store/boxdetails.do?boxName=tivohdxl&boxsku=R65800

If you were looking at the "original" tivo HD the comment might make sense.


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## phantom5777 (Mar 10, 2007)

I know the BB guy said something about 1TB of storage, but he said it was not available yet (maybe BB doesn't get it until Spring?)

Thanks


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## phantom5777 (Mar 10, 2007)

Not sure is $599 vs $299 price is woth it. $300 for extra storage is pretty expensive. I tend to delete after viewing programs.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

phantom5777 said:


> I know the BB guy said something about 1TB of storage, but he said it was not available yet (maybe BB doesn't get it until Spring?)
> 
> Thanks


nope they had it when it came out, though not perhaps in large quantities. the Guy had no idea what he was doing at all.

and yes the Tivo HD XL is 300% more, if you just wnat to buy a DVR and not open it up to mess with the insides then get the XL - the extra roomy hard drive makes everything much nicer, as you can wait to watch things when you want to as opposed to better watch those shows this weekend before next weeks recordings push them off.

If you are OK with opening up the unit and upgrading the drive on your own then get the regular TiVo HD and upgrade the drive when you feel the need to.


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## phantom5777 (Mar 10, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> If you are OK with opening up the unit and upgrading the drive on your own then get the regular TiVo HD and upgrade the drive when you feel the need to.


I just started reading about using external hard drives to add storage. Any thoughts on that?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

phantom5777 said:


> I just started reading about using external hard drives to add storage. Any thoughts on that?


I had a my DVR expander given to me as a present about a year ago. I liked it alright and was *very easy *to setup. About a month ago the external drive started overheating and then went bad.  I went out and bought a 1TB internal drive for 125$ to upgrade the unit again. I record mainly SD at high quality and maybe 20% mix of HD from OTA and found the stock drive(250 gig) is just not big enough


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Supposedly there's a standalone tru2way Tivo unit in the works, but details are sketchy and of course release date unknown.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Even if the Best Buy salesperson actually knew anything about that, saying it was anywhere near "coming out" would be completely off-the-rails. Also, there is absolutely no reason to believe that the next TiVo will "blow away" anything. I'd expect that the next TiVo will be aimed primarily at address the technical obstacles that current TiVo will face (i.e., tru2way) rather than being aimed at a substantial qualitative improvement over current models.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

bicker said:


> Even if the Best Buy salesperson actually knew anything about that, saying it was anywhere near "coming out" would be completely off-the-rails. Also, there is absolutely no reason to believe that the next TiVo will "blow away" anything. I'd expect that the next TiVo will be aimed primarily at address the technical obstacles that current TiVo will face (i.e., tru2way) rather than being aimed at a substantial qualitative improvement over current models.


I would like to see the next gen software on the S4 boxes. Current software feels very outdated.

CES 2009 startes in about a week. Wait to see what TiVo has to say about S4's and tru2way. I hope they have a demo unit to show off.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Well Tivo better get there act together. Because alot is about to come down the sales channels, over the next year. Seriously there are even discussion of Tru2way for Microsoft. Just think of damage that could do.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bicker said:


> I'd expect that the next TiVo will be aimed primarily at address the technical obstacles that current TiVo will face (i.e., tru2way) rather than being aimed at a substantial qualitative improvement over current models.


by afdressing those tech obstacles though - TiVo will be able to provide the cable company PPV/VOD to the user, which for a significant percent will be a qualitative improvement. If the yalso can work out how to make cable card installs easier on a box that can do 2 way communication with the head end and perhaps cut out some of the ill-trained middle men that would be a significant qualitative boost as well.

Also the possibility of working out an updated UI since there was plenty of radical change under the covers of the S4 already is a promising aspect of this new box as well.

Videodrome;
TiVo was at the forefront of tru2way work along with comcast as the main backer. They wer working it even before Sony and other joined in. Microsoft is still a little on the fence about it all but they would need another major relase of meida Center to get it out there and that is not slated for a while.

I do not think we will see any working tru2way at CES but might get a demo of the UI and how cable company part might look etc..


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Videodrome said:


> Well Tivo better get there act together. Because alot is about to come down the sales channels, over the next year. Seriously there are even discussion of Tru2way for Microsoft. Just think of damage that could do.


My personal guess would be that if TiVo and Microsoft, Motorola, Cisco, Sony, LG, etc., were to face off against each other, TiVo wouldn't win, and given the resources that Microsoft, Motorola, Cisco, Sony, LG, etc. have, TiVo's best hope against any of them would be to be bought-out.

I suspect, however, that these larger companies and TiVo will (continue, as applicable) pursuing *different* customers, and it won't become an issue.


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

bicker said:


> TiVo's best hope against any of them would be to be bought-out.


I personally hope that TiVo never gets Micro"soft"ized.... honestly, considering how TiVo is pushing into Broadband and VOD... I think Cisco would be the best company to parent it (my $.02)


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Videodrome;
> TiVo was at the forefront of tru2way work along with comcast as the main backer. They wer working it even before Sony and other joined in. Microsoft is still a little on the fence about it all but they would need another major relase of meida Center to get it out there and that is not slated for a while.
> 
> I do not think we will see any working tru2way at CES but might get a demo of the UI and how cable company part might look etc..


Panasonic HD TVs have introduced tru2way TVs in a few places now, Chicago being one place as I assume that at least one cable system in Chicago is ready to handle tru2way.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> Well Tivo better get there act together. Because alot is about to come down the sales channels, over the next year. Seriously there are even discussion of Tru2way for Microsoft. Just think of damage that could do.


microsoft outside of the PC/server OS and office suite market is almost a non-force.

How's that microsoft bob treating ya? 
How does the zune compare to ipod's in market share?
How's the windows mobile phone market share compared to blackberry, apple, google, and symbian?
they tried to make dvr's early on for both dish and directv - how are those boxes doing now?
Hows their web traffic compare to google and yahoo?
About their best foray at branching out is the x-box and i dont think they have run away with that market either (haven't looked lately but weren't they a little behind PS3 and multiples back on the wii?)

MS is like the borg on pc's but they are more like the wuss aliens from galaxy quest that tim allen has to save when they attempt to branch out to other markets. Maybe Tim Allen should've taken over from paul allen???

not to say they aren't scary when they decide to buy into that card game at your table- but it's not a given that just because they get involved things will go their way.


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## ryan87500 (Nov 30, 2004)

lessd said:


> Panasonic HD TVs have introduced tru2way TVs in a few places now, Chicago being one place as I assume that at least one cable system in Chicago is ready to handle tru2way.


I had a cable guy come out to put the M card in my system in Chicago and he said he has down a few tru2way cards in the area already on Panasonic TVs. He said its a pain and takes over 2 hours each one to get done but it does work and they have installed over 30 in my area so far.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

the fact that truwway takes a truck roll at all shows how stupid cable is. So sad.

they should mail you a card, you stick it in and then the device calls the mothership and negoiates all the pairing and what not. 

it wastes out time and money and THEIR time and money. Granted they pay those poor tech guys spit, but still 2 hours of a tech's time is a significant cost to them.


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## Sheldon469 (Mar 22, 2004)

phantom5777 said:


> I just started reading about using external hard drives to add storage. Any thoughts on that?





ZeoTiVo said:


> I had a my DVR expander given to me as a present about a year ago. I liked it alright and was *very easy *to setup. About a month ago the external drive started overheating and then went bad.  I went out and bought a 1TB internal drive for 125$ to upgrade the unit again. I record mainly SD at high quality and maybe 20% mix of HD from OTA and found the stock drive(250 gig) is just not big enough


What's this ya'll are talking about here?? Don't think I've heard of that before. Details please.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> the fact that truwway takes a truck roll at all shows how stupid cable is. So sad.
> 
> they should mail you a card, you stick it in and then the device calls the mothership and negoiates all the pairing and what not.
> 
> it wastes out time and money and THEIR time and money. Granted they pay those poor tech guys spit, but still 2 hours of a tech's time is a significant cost to them.


No kidding. It should be no different than activating a credit card.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

Sheldon469 said:


> What's this ya'll are talking about here?? Don't think I've heard of that before. Details please.


Look at the eSATA thread sticky in the S3 TiVo forum. S3's can handle eSATA drives, but the HD only supports the WD My DVR Expander 500 GB drive. It sells for ~$120 on Amazon. None of these work with S1 or S2 TiVos.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Costco.com now has the Tivo HD-XL for $589.99 includes wireless adapter.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

phantom5777 said:


> Not sure is $599 vs $299 price is woth it. $300 for extra storage is pretty expensive. I tend to delete after viewing programs.


I delete shows after viewing them too.. that's not related to how much space you have/want. I have many many shows recorded, and intend to eventually watch them (in fact, I put my netflix account on hold a month ago so I would make sure to catch up on some shows over this Xmas break -- I finished off the Boston Legals the other day, and am now catching up on the My Own Worst Enemy episodes.)


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Based on TiVo's history even if they do show something at CES it's still 9-12 months from actually being released. And if they don't show anything then it's either a rumor or a good 18+ months away from release.

Dan


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Or they could surprise us in the middle of the year, like they did with the Series 2 DT and the TiVo HD, with neither shown at CES.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

MichaelK said:


> microsoft outside of the PC/server OS and office suite market is almost a non-force.
> 
> How's that microsoft bob treating ya?
> How does the zune compare to ipod's in market share?
> ...


So if Microsoft offers a thin client platform, with Tru2way, then any programmer can develop a DVR. There are already 10 DVR software (non cablecard ) available now. It will just be history repeating itself. I would be more surprised if Microsoft didnt do this.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> So if Microsoft offers a thin client platform, with Tru2way, then any programmer can develop a DVR. There are already 10 DVR software (non cablecard ) available now. It will just be history repeating itself. I would be more surprised if Microsoft didnt do this.


the whole point of Microsoft and cable cable cards is the tital DRM lockdown of all the components. Cable cards will not allow 3rd party add ons unless they submit a OEM platform and get that certified and then sell it as such.

So unless someone cracks the security around cable cards the open software DVRs are kind of out in the cold.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

lessd said:


> Panasonic HD TVs have introduced tru2way TVs in a few places now, Chicago being one place as I assume that at least one cable system in Chicago is ready to handle tru2way.


yep, they were in early as well and tru2way for the TV was way less complicated though I am saddened to hear that cable card installs seem to still go through the same stupid hassle of finding someone eho understands the billing system enough to setup the cards.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> the whole point of Microsoft and cable cable cards is the tital DRM lockdown of all the components. Cable cards will not allow 3rd party add ons unless they submit a OEM platform and get that certified and then sell it as such.
> 
> So unless someone cracks the security around cable cards the open software DVRs are kind of out in the cold.


You missed it. Most home PC's media centers already do this, so there is no re-"certification". All Microsoft does is create the platform. Then any company can re-create there dvr.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> So if Microsoft offers a thin client platform, with Tru2way, then any programmer can develop a DVR. There are already 10 DVR software (non cablecard ) available now. It will just be history repeating itself. I would be more surprised if Microsoft didnt do this.


not exactly following can you explain more?

dont they already have thin clients in their media center extenders thingies? can't any of the millions of xboxs in homes do that? Dont linsys and d-link already have stand alone ones?

so are you saying that if you had a true2way HTPC that makes all the difference to server these things over the current one way HTPCs?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> You missed it. Most home PC's media centers already do this, so there is no re-"certification". All Microsoft does is create the platform. Then any company can re-create there dvr.


very few home PCs with media Center can record from the digital stream unencrypted Cable card. Cable Cards change the equation completely. There is work to certify an add on for cable card occur units but even at that Cablelabs would still get to certify OEM units at least one time.

It seems highly doubtful that Open Source code will get into the DRM around the cable card units legally.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> ... I do not think we will see any working tru2way at CES but might get a demo of the UI and how cable company part might look etc..


I hope so. A preview would be very cool


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## rv65 (Aug 30, 2008)

Time Warner Cable is very religious on OCAP. They have deployed OCAP compliant Samsung and SA boxes. They also signed a deal with Samsung to become a development partners. The SA OCAP boxes do have their flaws. They took the current boxes, tweaked them and added OCAP to them. The Samsung boxes are made for OCAP.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

rv65 said:


> Time Warner Cable is very religious on OCAP. They have deployed OCAP compliant Samsung and SA boxes. They also signed a deal with Samsung to become a development partners. The SA OCAP boxes do have their flaws. They took the current boxes, tweaked them and added OCAP to them. The Samsung boxes are made for OCAP.


Hopefully the separation of church and state will lead to the "TiVo" two-way solution being adopted right about when our Series 3 Platform TiVos start getting old.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

berkshires said:


> Hopefully the separation of church and state will lead to the "TiVo" two-way solution being adopted right about when our Series 3 Platform TiVos start getting old.


actually tru2way is simply a spec that ties cable card, a docis modem for 2 way communication and an OCAP implementation with standardized interfaces to hardware so that a TiVo with tru2way will work on Comcast adn on TWC or whomever is tru2way compliant.

This lets TWC tweak the innards of OCAP to how they want it to work, just within the framework of the standardized hardware interface so whatever TWC does will work on the TiVo without TiVo hardware having to be TWC specific.

It is more like the Church is housed within the State, but any State can pick its own Church.


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## rv65 (Aug 30, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> actually tru2way is simply a spec that ties cable card, a docis modem for 2 way communication and an OCAP implementation with standardized interfaces to hardware so that a TiVo with tru2way will work on Comcast adn on TWC or whomever is tru2way compliant.
> 
> This lets TWC tweak the innards of OCAP to how they want it to work, just within the framework of the standardized hardware interface so whatever TWC does will work on the TiVo without TiVo hardware having to be TWC specific.
> 
> It is more like the Church is housed within the State, but any State can pick its own Church.


OCAP is tru2way. The tru2way Tivo will be able to access SDV in Tivo mode which is nice. Tivo will have a Cable mode so you can access Cable VOD, and other features that your cableco provides using their interface.


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## rv65 (Aug 30, 2008)

tru2way also supports DCAS which is the downloadable security they have been promising for the last few years. DCAS is nice because it eliminates the cable card and gets the security by a secure processor that gets the security via the cable system.


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## shady (May 31, 2002)

As well as the tru2way stuff, there was also mention of TiVo looking at "Home Servers" to distribute programming around the house.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rv65 said:


> OCAP is tru2way. The tru2way Tivo will be able to access SDV in Tivo mode which is nice. Tivo will have a Cable mode so you can access Cable VOD, and other features that your cableco provides using their interface.


what I implied in my post is that tru2way is a standardized OCAP so that it will work on any cable company. This standardized OCAP will let each cable company dislay its implementation of PPV/VOD while in this OCAP sandbox. So TiVo is the state and the user can decide what church/cable company is used in his state.
and yes the DOCIS modem will allow 2 way communication so that it can send SDV requests back and get the desired switched channel in either the OCAP mode or in TiVo mode.


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