# The Walking Dead S06E03 "Thank You" 10/25/2015 *spoilers*



## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Noooooooooooooo not Glenn!


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Dueling threads, I made the mistake of adding some of my thoughts


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Whoops feel free to merge moderators


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## Crow159 (Jul 28, 2004)

I don't think Glenn is dead. I think Nicholas' body fell on Glenn and it was his guts being eaten, not Glenn.

Please let that be what happens, pretty please with the sugar on the top.

Glenn can't die, he's one of my favorite characters on the show.


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

Crow159 said:


> I don't think Glenn is dead. I think Nicholas' body fell on Glenn and it was his guts being eaten, not Glenn.
> 
> Please let that be what happens, pretty please with the sugar on the top.
> 
> Glenn can't die, he's one of my favorite characters on the show.


I don't think he's dead either.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Balzer said:


> I don't think he's dead either.


The show could get so bad if he lives sadly 

I think there is no way he survived


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I think he's dead.

We missed how Rick hurt his hand. What's up with that?

And how did Daryl wind up back with the lead car? Where was he going when he peeled off?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Talking Dead didn't include him in their Memoriam section.

As we know, blood/guts is like camouflage to walkers. It is possible he got so buried in it they ignored him.


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> The show could get so bad if he lives sadly
> 
> I think there is no way he survived


True if he is alive they will have to have a very good way to explain it.


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## Crow159 (Jul 28, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> The show could get so bad if he lives sadly
> 
> I think there is no way he survived


For me, it's wishful thinking. I'm hoping that he's alive but I'm not sure there's a way to have him survive in a believable way. I'm hoping the writers have some amazing way that I haven't thought of that would be a realistic, believable way for him to live and just be awesome. ☺


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

heySkippy said:


> I think he's dead.
> 
> We missed how Rick hurt his hand. What's up with that?


One of the walkers on the road had a large knife through his shoulder. We saw the handle sticking out as he was feeding. Rick put his hand to the walker's chest to hold him for the skull stab and was cut.

The question is, does Rick even know that's what happened, or does he think he's dying? What happens if walker blood gets in a wound?

Who said Morgan should've killed those Wolves last week?

Why did Rick turn the engine off?

Glenn is dead, dead, dead.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

My reaction to the main scene of the episode tonight was a series of F words yelled at the screen.

It would be very hard to pull Glenn from that. It did look like the other guy fell on top of him which is giving me thoughts that it might be possible. And if they somehow do pull him from that then it is a trick they should only ever pull once, or else they will lose all credibility.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

Crow159 said:


> I don't think Glenn is dead. I think Nicholas' body fell on Glenn and it was his guts being eaten, not Glenn.
> 
> Please let that be what happens, pretty please with the sugar on the top.
> 
> Glenn can't die, he's one of my favorite characters on the show.


I can assure you he can and everyone on this show can.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tlc said:


> One of the walkers on the road had a large knife through his shoulder. We saw the handle sticking out as he was feeding. Rick put his hand to the walker's chest to hold him for the skull stab and was cut.
> 
> The question is, does Rick even know that's what happened, or does he think he's dying? What happens if walker blood gets in a wound?


In the comic book, in a similar situation


Spoiler



Rick loses his hand. They didn't do it earlier in the show because of the logistical difficulties of having to digitally remove a lead actor's hand. Could they have changed their minds?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Not doing in memoriam is really odd. If he's dead then why not, if he's not then let's give it away.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> Not doing in memoriam is really odd. If he's dead then why not, if he's not then let's give it away.


Could be he's dead and they're toying with us. Or he's not dead and they're toying with us in a different way.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

oh and Maggie is definitely the curse of death.

I like how, after all the complaining last year, all the black characters survived and the white guys died. Assuming Glenn is dead then at least on minority.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

That's a good question. They all have walking dead blood in them so I don't know why a bite has any affect on them but I guess i have to suspend my disbelief.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I thought this had been explained, you have to be bitten, something to do with the reaction to the bite


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Copied from my other version of this thread

OMG. I am feeling physical pain.

My only hope is that we did not see him die so maybe there's some way back. I am hoping that was Nicholas's guts. On the other hand, getting out of that scenario would have been hard to believe.

The whole quarry thing has completely backfired.

Why did Michone et al not kill that poor guy through the fence?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> I like how, after all the complaining last year, all the black characters survived and the white guys died. Assuming Glenn is dead then at least on minority.


Um, there was also the black guy. The one who didn't make it over the fence with Michonne.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Um, there was also the black guy. The one who didn't make it over the fence with Michonne.


David, the white guy, is the one that did not make it over the fence.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

If I remember correctly we have the guy who was shot in the leg, guy with dreads and Michone in that small group.


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## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

Glenn and Nicholas were on top of a vehicle, right? Maybe Nicholas fell on top of him giving him just enough time to get under the vehicle where he is protected enough to survive. And then again, maybe I'm just wishing.


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

BrandonRe said:


> Glenn and Nicholas were on top of a vehicle, right?


They were on top of a dumpster. They didn't show if there was any space underneath.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Glenn is the Walrus.

There's Evidence That 'Walking Dead' Character Isn't Actually Dead


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Holy crap!


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Glenn's dead. No way they pull some cheesy move to bring him back from that. There were dozens of walkers all over him.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

This show seems extra gory so far this year. Like they doubled their blood n guts budget for the year.

Cheap trick if Glenn is not dead.

Based on the preview for next week:



Spoiler



Looks like we may get a backstory episode on Morgan which will be maddening to leave the main story hanging.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Jim_TV said:


> Glenn's dead. No way they pull some cheesy move to bring him back from that. There were dozens of walkers all over him.


Well, that other guy did fall on top of Glenn so there's always that.

I'm not saying you're wrong either.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Crow159 said:


> I don't think Glenn is dead. I think Nicholas' body fell on Glenn and it was his guts being eaten, not Glenn.
> 
> Please let that be what happens, pretty please with the sugar on the top.
> 
> Glenn can't die, he's one of my favorite characters on the show.


My thoughts exactly. It's like when machete girl had the walker stink all over her earlier in the series. She could walk among them, and the walkers weren't interested. They ate the other guy and Glen survives. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I'm OK with it, it doesn't ruin the series for me. I'll be bummed if he really is dead.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Much as I don't want Glenn dead, it was well done and I'll be mighty pissed if he reappears.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> I thought this had been explained, you have to be bitten, something to do with the reaction to the bite


Being bitten simply accelerates your death, because it makes you sick. But it has nothing to do with turning you into a walker.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Just a note of observation. Glen's first line to Rick in the very first episode over a walkie talkie like things was "Hey you dumbass". Glen's last line here was something to the same effect over a walkie talkie. Rick also appears to end up in a vehicle surrounded by walkers just like he was stuck in the tank.

I believe this was a deliberate way of book ending of Glen's story.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

My vote is "not dead"...

They would have saved Glenn's death as a season finale or a mid-season finale, and they would have made his death a lot more obvious... The fact that we are even debating his death should be reason enough to doubt it...

Nicholas clearly fell on top of Glenn, and everything in slow motion looks like the intestines and guts are coming up a little too high for it to be from Glenn's chest...and the intestines should be coming from Glenn's stomach...not his chest...

I don't buy it... I think Glenn is going to tuck himself underneath the garbage bin and let them finish feasting on Nicholas... Glenn will go unnoticed because he is covered in blood and hidden from them.

And then there will be some audible distraction that will lead the zombies elsewhere...giving Glenn an opportunity to escape...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeekiM said:


> Glenn will go unnoticed because he is covered in blood and hidden from them.


Although being covered in blood would make him even more zombie-bait (as opposed to being covered in zombie gore, which would protect him).

Him still being alive would be a cheat of almost show-ruining proportions, but I'm afraid that might be what they're doing...


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## leswar (Apr 14, 2005)

If Glenn were to survive it would negate the story being told of his personal morality.
In giving Nicholas a second chance he demonstrates his goodness, only to have it come back and bite him. I also like how his reaction is to try and catch his dead friend from falling only to be propelled off the dumpster.

Fresh guts attracts the walkers and I don't think they will stop munching Nicholas once
they eat through him onto Glenn below.

It's old walker gunk you need to use on yourself to repel them-- not fresh blood and guts.

He can't make it out of the herd surrounded like he is. Even if he were able to crawl under that low lying dumpster, no one knows were he is. No one is going to wade through all that on the off chance he's hiding there. 

Yet he did say to the pet store group "I'll find a way to contact you and let you know where I'm at." (or words to that effect). Glenn can be very resourceful. 

But I'm betting he's a walker now.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> In the comic book, in a similar situation
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


In the comics I thought...



Spoiler



It was cut off during an encounter with the Governor?


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

MikeekiM said:


> They would have saved Glenn's death as a season finale or a mid-season finale


not necessarily - - - Laurie died in the 4th episode of a season


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

First thing I thought when Rick's hand was injured...it's gone ala Hershel...

Whether Glenn's dead or not, I really don't care. He's never been a pivotal character...


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I think Glenn is dead. I can't see how they could save him without cheapening the series.

Also, I bet that since we saw Morgan apparently leaving Alexandria last episode, that he will come upon the RV and somehow save Rick. I hope that when he sees the guys that Rick killed that he realizes they are the same guys that he let go after they picked up the gun from the dead body. I want him to know the results of his actions of sparing them, that he risked another person's life.

As for them not showing Glenn in the In Memoriam, the people on Talking Dead don't know the outcome of that story line yet, or at least claim not to. So they didn't add him to the montage.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Is Talking Dead stuff spoilered?
Showrunner Scott Gimple sent a message to Talking Dead regarding Glenn and his absence from the In Memoriam segment:



Spoiler



"Dear fans of The Walking Dead, this is a hard story to tell and when we were planning to tell we knew our friends at the Talking Dead would be talking to you about it and knowing you'd all be talking, and feeling and commiserating, I knew we should say something about it lest our silence say something we didn't mean to say or not say," Gimple said in a statement. "So I'll say this: In some way, we will see Glenn, some version of Glenn or parts of Glenn again, either in flashback or in the current story to help complete the story."



Very odd that he was not included in the In Memoriam.
They'd better not play _too_ fast and loose with this- I guess he could somehow scurry under the dumpster but it's a stretch.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

sbourgeo said:


> In the comics I thought...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. Sorry, I was trying so hard to set up the spoiler without spoiling it I was careless in the wording.


Spoiler



My point was that Rick's injury is probably meant to bring to mind that comic book event to those who are familiar with Rick's current handlessness.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

markz said:


> As for them not showing Glenn in the In Memoriam, the people on Talking Dead don't know the outcome of that story line yet, or at least claim not to. So they didn't add him to the montage.


They also get the actor to appear after the episode they die in. Maybe they cheat and next episode he'll be on. Buuuuut why build the tension and questions? I think this is a first for this show


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

It will be a total cheat if Glenn somehow survives. It's not like he was fully covered by Nicholas' body. Glenn's head was fully exposed to the horde, and there would be many of those walkers that couldn't reach Nicholas' body, but maybe could reach Glenn. Even the fact that they weren't biting his face in that shot where they're pulling out all the guts is pretty ridiculous.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes. Sorry, I was trying so hard to set up the spoiler without spoiling it I was careless in the wording.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Ah, gotcha.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

leswar said:


> I also like how his reaction is to try and catch his dead friend from falling only to be propelled off the dumpster.


I'm not sure Nicholas was his "friend". He knew Nicholas was unstable and flakey.. I think as soon as he shot himself, Glenn would/should have quickly thrown him off the dumpster to create a diversion so he could escape (no, I don't know how). It was kind of forced that they both fell off together. Glenn had no reason to "catch his dead friend from falling" knowing what he knows about the walkers and that he would be a goner. They showed Glenn standing up and getting splattered with blood -- all he had to do was push Nicholas away for him to fall off the dumpster alone.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I thought that Nicholas kinda fell into Glenn and took him down with him. 

Could be wrong though


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

leswar said:


> Yet he did say to the pet store group "I'll find a way to contact you and let you know where I'm at." (or words to that effect). Glenn can be very resourceful.


Right. He does have that orange flare gun. That could create enough of a blast/explosion to kill lots of walkers and create a diversion (well, in a hollywood sort of way, anyway).


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> I thought that Nicholas kinda fell into Glenn and took him down with him.
> 
> Could be wrong though


Sort of, but Glenn still could have controlled that fall and just pushed him aside to fall alone. I watched it a few times. But it is TV and not "reality" and they have a story they want to tell.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

I'm not generally one to over-think these kinds of things because, as Hank says, the writers have their story to tell. That said, it's purely reflexive to try to catch something that's falling.

When I was young I worked for my dad's construction company. One of the explicit safety rules on any job site was, "If something drops, let it fall." Someone said it at least once or twice a day, every day. Nevertheless, three or four times a year someone would get bumped, bruised, scraped, cut, or bashed because they tried to catch a falling piece of equipment or beam or whatever. In the moment, you almost can't help yourself.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I was a little surprised they didn't think of jumping onto the tall, long fence that ran along the alley. Who knows where that could have led them? They'd certainly be better off than on top of the Dumpster. But I suspect this is another case of writers and on=set personnel not being on the same page...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I was a little surprised they didn't think of jumping onto the tall, long fence that ran along the alley. Who knows where that could have led them? They'd certainly be better off than on top of the Dumpster. But I suspect this is another case of writers and on=set personnel not being on the same page...


Kinda hard to climb a fence when walkers were right on the other side of it though.

They got there on the other side just as Glann and Nicolas got there, so wouldn't have had a chance to climb it


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I was a little surprised they didn't think of jumping onto the tall, long fence that ran along the alley. Who knows where that could have led them? They'd certainly be better off than on top of the Dumpster. But I suspect this is another case of writers and on=set personnel not being on the same page...


I wondered why they didn't scramble over the debris tot he fire escape?

There are too many hints to Glenn not being dead and the Talking Dead stuff just fuels the fire. The show runners are being very coy about it.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

I can't figure out a plausible way that he can still be alive. Yes, they could cheese it and have him slip under the dumpster and wait until the horde leaves (would they? they're deep in an alley with a lot of other walkers cramming into the alley to see what all the commotion is about) and make it back to the group.

That seems like such a cheese move though. I think the pet store scene where he reviews the pocket watch will be awfully telling in the future. I think that will come back into play - we know that the one guy (David?) wanted to have a note given to his wife, perhaps Glenn did the same thing and on a scouting mission they find Glenn's satchel with a goodbye note?

As much as I don't want to see the character go, I also don't want to see the character back under less than plausible circumstances either.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> Kinda hard to climb a fence when walkers were right on the other side of it though.
> 
> They got there on the other side just as Glenn and Nicolas got there, so wouldn't have had a chance to climb it


I know there were zombies on the other side of the fence that was blocking the alley, but I didn't see anything on the other side of the fence that went alongside the alley (it had a tarp-thingie blocking out view, IIRC). And regardless, being on a very high fence that they could move along would be an infinitely better position than being on a Dumpster where the zombies could grad their feet. If nothing else, they could just move to where the two fences meet (and thus are stable), and wait for help. And yes, help may never come, but again, it's a better position to be in.

And I could see that the long fence was close enough to the Dumpster that they could jump onto it, and then climb higher to get out of zombie reach.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

There was razor wire on top of the fence, at least on some sections. Granted, between razor wire and zombie horde, razor wire is the obvious choice. Still....


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Maui said:


> I wondered why they didn't scramble over the debris tot he fire escape?
> 
> There are too many hints to Glenn not being dead and the Talking Dead stuff just fuels the fire. The show runners are being very coy about it.


There was another stairway that was unblocked right when they saw walkers coming from both sides. Then they showed the blocked stairway next. Either of those would have been a plausible escape route, though the story didn't call for their escape.

I just thought of a good plot twist today...

We all (or at least many of us) think Glenn might possibly be dead, and that Rick will escape somehow. What if that is a giant misdirect? What if after thinking this all week, we find out next week, that Glenn somehow lives, but Rick gets killed. That would be a real gut punch to the viewers two weeks in a row, with only one major death.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

markz said:


> We all (or at least many of us) think Glenn might possibly be dead, and that Rick will escape somehow. What if that is a giant misdirect? What if after thinking this all week, we find out next week, that Glenn somehow lives, but Rick gets killed. That would be a real gut punch to the viewers two weeks in a row, with only one major death.


I agree! It seems like Rick is equally screwed.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I think the editing with Glenn was "clever". I think he is masked by the guy who killed himself and is under the dumpster. There will be a sound that will draw the walkers away from him. 

Rick just broke his hand punching that walker in the head. Oh and I think Rick is safe. The walkers just looked like they were walking past the RV.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Boy, with all the people killed in the Wolves attack and all the people killed last night, there aren't many Alexandrites left!


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

markz said:


> Boy, with all the people killed in the Wolves attack and all the people killed last night, there aren't many Alexandrites left!


So if Rick and gang NEVER showed up, what would have happened?

I mean either that giant quarry hoard or the Wolves would have killed all of them right?

So at least SOME are surviving with Rick and gang


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I thought I saw two ways of escape off that dumpster -- one was a fence perpendicular to the fence hemming them in. The other was a roof that appeared to be accessible opposite the aforementioned fence.

EDIT: Or what Rob said...


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I re watched to see what happened to Rick's hand. His knife broke when he killed the first walker (or the actors prop knife just broke and Andrew just went with it). Then when he was fighting the second one (with a knife already attached to it) he got hurt somehow. It's a toss up between he just cut himself on the knife attached to the walker, or something more dire. The walkers mouth was pretty close to his hand. 

(Maybe Rick doesn't even know, and thinks hes dying, but will live. Then from now on he'll think he's immune and pull even more stupider crazy ****)
Edit: I guess I should add that last bit is a joke.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I was a little surprised they didn't think of jumping onto the tall, long fence that ran along the alley. Who knows where that could have led them? They'd certainly be better off than on top of the Dumpster. But I suspect this is another case of writers and on=set personnel not being on the same page...


I also thought they could have gone from the top of the dumpster to the fence, then along the fence to the roof of the adjacent building. Sure, they'd get cut up by the barb wire atop the fence, but that's better than being stuck on top of the dumpster surrounded by walkers.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I also thought they could have gone from the top of the dumpster to the fence, then along the fence to the roof of the adjacent building. Sure, they'd get cut up by the barb wire atop the fence, but that's better than being stuck on top of the dumpster surrounded by walkers.


or to the other side where the trees were at.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Maui said:


> ... There are too many hints to Glenn not being dead and the Talking Dead stuff just fuels the fire. The show runners are being very coy about it.


I was surprised during the scene with Glenn squirming on the ground, initially thinking that he was being eaten alive, but those guts were obviously on top of him as he looked on in horror, just as he was horrified to witness the guy die in the revolving door last season, thanks to Nicholas abandoning everybody.

I do not believe Glenn was eaten and will definitely need a shower (has anybody here actually smelled fresh guts and especially intestines split open?) when he returns to the group healthy and alive. They may delay his return for a while, just as they did when Rick banished Carol and she later returned to save everyone from Terminus.

If Glenn is to have a death scene, it would not be questionable. IMHO.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Just a thought... Glenn uses the flare guy to create a short diversion and kill all the walkers on him, and then he jumps into the dumpster and hides there until the walkers leave on their own?


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## sneagle (Jun 12, 2002)

Glenn is dead. I can't see the show letting him live. And then expecting us to take the show seriously. There were way too many walkers for him to escape. Until the last moment I did hope he was going to get onto the roof somehow. 

As for Rick. The walkers will be slowed down around the RV by the fresh dead bodies. Unless the RV starts or help arrives, he is in trouble.


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

Glenn should've pulled a Crocodile Dundee and walked out of there on zombie heads.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

Crow159 said:


> I don't think Glenn is dead. I think Nicholas' body fell on Glenn and it was his guts being eaten, not Glenn.


Personally, if Glenn survived that there is nothing the writers can do to explain it away that will make me believe it. And if he does survive I will probably stop watching because it will feel like a cop out to me.


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## TeddS (Sep 21, 2000)

He's dead. They played the sad "he's dead" music as he was dying.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Hank said:


> Sort of, but Glenn still could have controlled that fall and just pushed him aside to fall alone. I watched it a few times. But it is TV and not "reality" and they have a story they want to tell.


Them falling together is totally realistic. People do sometimes simply lose balance when perched up on raised platforms. Plus the walkers were grabbing at their legs and trying to pull them down, and then these two guys are surging with adrenaline and fear and then finally Glenn was surely deafened by a gun shot so close to his ears and sprayed with blood and brain matter as Nicholas fell against him on the way down. It's not the least bit surprising he fell in that circumstance.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Thunderclap said:


> Personally, if Glenn survived that there is nothing the writers can do to explain it away that will make me believe it....


Because, after all, there is so much in this show that IS believable....


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

Jim_TV said:


> Glenn's dead. No way they pull some cheesy move to bring him back from that. There were dozens of walkers all over him.


I agree. Then again, these are the writers that brought us this brilliant line last night:



> Rick: The horn stopped. That's good.


Thank you Captain Obvious!


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Because, after all, there is so much in this show that IS believable....


I have standards.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

I think there are people who get too wrapped up in their "standards". Who cares if they bring back a well liked character in a hokey way. I believe we all like Glennnnn......

and if he's dead, then that's some drama we'll get to see unfold.

It's not like this is a respectable super well written tightly controlled believable show overall.....there have been a TON of crappy things in the writing in this show, it's popcorn drama, zombies and cannibals and more crap...........


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Fahtrim said:


> I think there are people who get too wrapped up in their "standards". Who cares if they bring back a well liked character in a hokey way. I believe we all like Glennnnn......
> 
> and if he's dead, then that's some drama we'll get to see unfold.
> 
> It's not like this is a respectable super well written tightly controlled believable show overall.....there have been a TON of crappy things in the writing in this show, it's popcorn drama, zombies and cannibals and more crap...........


This...

I enjoy the show, and I will keep enjoying the show regardless of what they decide to do here... It's not a perfect show...but it is perfect enough for me...


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I am now hoping Glenn is alive. Escapes by hiding under the other guys body. Zombies move on and he gets up and works his way back to town. Upon arrival and still covered in blood another Alexandria person thinks he is a Zombie and takes him out. Would be classic. (Just like the end of the original Night of the living dead)


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Before they fell off the dumpster, I joked to my wife that I wondered if someone could get on hands & knees and crawl under a scrum of walkers without them knowing what was happening, or at least before they could react. The seem good focusing on something ahead of them, but what about straight down?

Now I'm wondering if that's what they'll have Glennnn do.


----------



## nyc13 (May 31, 2013)

NatasNJ said:


> (Just like the end of the original Night of the living dead)


I always thought they knew exactly what they were doing but were just a bunch of hicks using an excuse to kill a black guy.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

One thing I am trying to figure out is when Nicholas shot himself, he was standing directly across from Glenn, when Nicholas held the gun up to his right temple to shoot himself, the blood spray would have come from Glenn's left, correct? Yet the blood spray came in firmly from Glenn's right onto his face.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I haven't had a chance to catch up with the thread but this quote from Paste magazine sums up my feelings.



> the more I sit with last night's episode and the ridiculous is he/isn't he discussions on last night's Talking Dead, the less satisfying this feels. If Glenn is dead, we didn't get to properly mourn. If he's still alive, everything the writers have done to raise the stakes and make this world feel dangerous for all of the characters will become a little bit undone. It puts the viewers-or maybe I'm alone in this-in the very strange position of hoping that Glenn is really dead because any escape scenario will feel unrealistic


It's sad but one way or another this is not good. Glenn dead without proper send off or not dead and I lost some faith in the show.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Hank said:


> Well, that other guy did fall on top of Glenn so there's always that.


No, he didn't, at least not fully. There's a shot of Glenn's profile, after he lands on his side, he rolls onto his back in obvious pain. You can see his head and shoulders. And he was able to roll, weakly. Nothing much is on top of him.

Then, it cuts to the angle from Glenn's feet when the guts start to be pulled out. The angle is low. If someone was on top, you wouldn't see that much of his face and neck. Those are his guts.

If anyone seriously thinks he might be OK, watch it again. Edit: The video is below and I was wrong.

Still: Walkers are going to eat clean to the pavement in this scenario. "Under whathisname" shouldn't help. And I've never seen a dumpster with enough room to crawl under. Why would they make it that high?

I liked him too, but he's dead.



Cearbhaill said:


> Very odd that he was not included in the In Memoriam.


Talking Dead is a different show. They know what we know. They weren't sure.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

DeDondeEs said:


> One thing I am trying to figure out is when Nicholas shot himself he was standing directly across from Glenn, when Nicholas held the gun up to his right temple the blood spray would have come from Glenn's left, correct? Yet the blood spray came in firmly from Glenn's right onto his face.


Yeah... I noticed that too...


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> It's sad but one way or another this is not good. Glenn dead without proper send off or not dead and I lost some faith in the show.


That is one of the reasons why I think he is still alive... They would have absolutely sent him off properly...

And let's not judge how unrealistic his escape is until we see said escape...

Glenn has a pocket full of stuff to set the feed store on fire... Maybe he does something with the materials in his pocket to either create a distraction, or maybe sets them on fire has he tucks himself neatly under the garbage bin...

Again...for me, I don't care which way it goes... I will continue to watch either way (dead or alive)...


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Still surviving from Episode 1: Rick, Carl, Morgan.

From the "first group" or Season 1: Daryl, Carol

From Season 2 (farm): Maggie

From Season 3 (prison): Michonne, Sasha


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

Thunderclap said:


> Personally, if Glenn survived that there is nothing the writers can do to explain it away that will make me believe it. And if he does survive I will probably stop watching because it will feel like a cop out to me.


That's where I'm at. Impossible for him to survive.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

MikeekiM said:


> That is one of the reasons why I think he is still alive... They would have absolutely sent him off properly...


I think it's realistic for that world. Some people are going to disappear and you won't know for sure. Not everyone gets to stagger back and say good bye. Or are with someone who lives to tell what happened.

It'll probably be part of the story. Maggie will wonder. How much will she hunt? Will they clear every alleyway in that town until they find his belt buckle?


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

tlc said:


> And I've never seen a dumpster with enough room to crawl under.


It's called "TV"... in an alternate reality with zombies. A dumpster with a crawl space is pretty much the most believable thing about this show.


----------



## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

MikeekiM said:


> That is one of the reasons why I think he is still alive... They would have absolutely sent him off properly...


I am not sure what sending him off properly is..

With an audience of those who care about him?
More heroically than falling off a dumpster?


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

DeDondeEs said:


> One thing I am trying to figure out is when Nicholas shot himself he was standing directly across from Glenn, when Nicholas held the gun up to his right temple the blood spray would have come from Glenn's left, correct? Yet the blood spray came in firmly from Glenn's right onto his face.


Most of the blood would come out the other side of Nicholas' head.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Hank said:


> It's called "TV"... in an alternate reality with zombies. A dumpster with a crawl space is pretty much the most believable thing about this show.


True, but my primary contention is that we _*saw*_ Glenn get eaten. People just don't want to believe it.

But in regards to crawling under things, I've been wondering what kept the Walkers from crawling under the trailers blocking the quarry. Were they not on wheels? Haven't we seen walkers reach people under cars? Crawl under things?

The walkers were packed so tight, yet Glenn fell to the ground. It was like a standard movie/TV scene when someone not-cool-enough tries crowdsurfing and falls flat.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Sending him off properly, for me, means being clear that he died and not leaving it in question. Right or wrong TD has set a precedent for characters who died and they did not follow it here.

So if he died it should have been made clear. If not then, well errr. he's not dead


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I absolutely disagree that we saw Glenn being eaten, especially since I doubt his intestines are in his upper chest. We can assume or present that theory, but not be sure.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

tlc said:


> True, but my primary contention is that we _*saw*_ Glenn get eaten. People just don't want to believe it.





JohnB1000 said:


> I absolutely disagree that we saw Glenn being eaten, especially since I doubt his intestines are in his upper chest. We can assume or present that theory, but not be sure.


Yeah, the intestines were way too close to Glenn's head to be Glenn's.

I still think it's show-ruiningly impossible for him to have survived the situation he was in, but I don't believe he was watching his own intestines being eaten.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Here is the scene by the way, the more I watch it the more I think it is made purposely to look like he is being eaten when he's not


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)




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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

JohnB1000 said:


> I absolutely disagree that we saw Glenn being eaten, especially since I doubt his intestines are in his upper chest. We can assume or present that theory, but not be sure.


I agree. And there's a shot that shows plenty of room for someone to fit under the dumpster.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> Here is the scene by the way, the more I watch it the more I think it is made purposely to look like he is being eaten when he's not


Yes.. and it looks like they're pulling out intestines.. which last time I checked, weren't in the upper chest area.

Also, would Gleen still be that conscious if they tore into his chest like that?


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

I posted earlier that I thought Glenn was still alive. But he is probably dead. 

However, it was intentionally staged and filmed the way it was for a specific reason. 

Normally when a character dies (good guy or otherwise), there is absolutely no doubt about it. Why was Glenn's "death" scene done differently? And Talking Dead only added to the mystery by not featuring him as part of the "In Memoriam" segment, which has also never been done before. You KNOW the producers had a hand in that decision.

Maybe they just want the audience to find out that Glenn is dead when the other characters find out.. sort of like Sophia maybe?

But we will have to wait and see. No offense, but I think it's silly that some have been saying they will stop watching if it turns out that Glenn survived. There are always unbelievable things on this show, starting with the basic premise of the show. Or how about those Ninja Walkers that don't make a peep until they are right on top of you? Lol.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

It might be fun for Glenn to reappear as a walker, but I don't think the walkers are going to leave enough of him to walk.


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Last we saw Glenn, he was alive... He was either alive and well, but covered in someone else's blood and entrails... Or in the process of being eaten alive...

We have not seen him dead yet...


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> Here is the scene by the way, the more I watch it the more I think it is made purposely to look like he is being eaten when he's not


OK. I was wrong. The camera angles were not what I thought. You are right in that it looks like they're eating N on top of Glenn.

I still contend there's no reasonable way to survive. What? They're going to eat to the back of N's shirt and stop? Walker guts have let people blend in. Fresh blood and guts should just make people smell yummy.

They're playing with us.



cherry ghost said:


> I agree. And there's a shot that shows plenty of room for someone to fit under the dumpster.


I see the dumspter too but disagree about "plenty of room".


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Here's the shot of the dumpster


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## icatar (Apr 10, 2003)

One more observation for the Glenn is still alive conspiracy theorists. While he is being eaten, Glenn does not spit up any blood. Usually with someone getting turned inside out like that, we'd see them spitting up loads of blood.


----------



## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Yeah from what I can recall from previous seasons, when a main character is killed off, the viewer is left with no doubt that the person was killed, usually through the use of gratuitous special effects. The Glenn scene left a lot to question. 

So far I am loving this season, it is one of my favorites. Every episode so far has felt like it could easily be 2nd to last episode of the series.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

One thing is certain. We won't see Steven Yeun and what became of his character for several more episodes, maybe not until the 2nd half of the season next year. Cliffhanger mission accomplished.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> Here's the shot of the dumpster


Wow. Didn't look that roomy when Glenn was writhing in front of it. At this point, I _hope_ they're just playing with us. It would be a really cheesy save.

And Nicholas, "Thanks" for what? Letting you redeem yourself a bit? Or snapping you out of it so you could shoot yourself?


----------



## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

series5orpremier said:


> One thing is certain. We won't see Steven Yeun and what became of his character for several more episodes, maybe not until the 2nd half of the season next year. Cliffhanger mission accomplished.


Dang it... So you think they will leave this one hanging for a few episodes? I was hoping to get some resolution (one way or the other) next week! <sigh>...


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

There are a lot of cool things they could do with a walker Glenn though. There could be some form of communication that shows walkers are more aware than we think. Or they could have Maggie dramatically put him down. Or Michonne could chop off his arms and keep him as a pet.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

MikeekiM said:


> Dang it... So you think they will leave this one hanging for a few episodes? I was hoping to get some resolution (one way or the other) next week! <sigh>...


They've been known to do it before.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

series5orpremier said:


> They've been known to do it before.


Agreed... I definitely see this as a possibility (and more likely than not)...

I forgot that they could do that... I was expecting (and maybe more accurately "hoping for") an immediate resolution to this vague ending!


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

MikeekiM said:


> Agreed... I definitely see this as a possibility (and more likely than not)...
> 
> I forgot that they could do that... I was expecting (and maybe more accurately "hoping for") an immediate resolution to this vague ending!


Based on the preview for next week:



Spoiler



I think we're going to get a Morgan only episode, either with backstory or backstory mixed with what happens when he leaves Alexandria. I don't think we're going to see any other characters.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DeDondeEs said:


> One thing I am trying to figure out is when Nicholas shot himself, he was standing directly across from Glenn, when Nicholas held the gun up to his right temple to shoot himself, the blood spray would have come from Glenn's left, correct? Yet the blood spray came in firmly from Glenn's right onto his face.





tlc said:


> Most of the blood would come out the other side of Nicholas' head.


I thought it was ridiculous that the blood splattered all over Glenn's face, but not because it came from the wrong side, but simply because the angle of Nicholas' gun would have sent the blood splatter out the left side of Nicholas' head. I'm not sure how the blood splatter left his head and turned 90 degrees to the right to land on Glenn's face.

Also, after all the rounds Glenn and Nicholas fired at the walkers before they climbed the dumpster, how did Nicholas even have any ammo left?


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

Just finished the episode and I read a couple of comment sections on some entertainment sites plus some of the thread here, and it seems the biggest issue people have is that if Glenn wasn't eaten, that it would be horrible writing for him to survive that scenario. 

But why? Haven't they shown a number of times in prior seasons that humans covering themselves in blood and cuts allows them to walk straight by without becoming dinner? I don't remember the really early seasons but I think I remember scenarious where they did that - or am I thinking of something else? I think if they revealed that glen was FULLY covered in Nicolas blood and innards and managed to crawl out of that alley, would that really be horrible writing? 

They clearly left it vague, which I actually like - it gives you a sense of unease just like all his friends who have absolutely no idea where he is. We have to wait just like they have to wait. Kind of like what happened to Sophia except this time we have a little more knowledge than the group. 

Personally I love the core group and don't want any of them to die so if the writers have a way for him to be alive after all, and it makes sense, I'll buy it. 

Also I'd love to once again give props to several media outlets that spoiled the **** out of this whole thing without so much as a warning. I get that there's still a faction of society that thinks everyone watches a show the minute it airs but people should still put a warning before articles that have to do with stuff like this. It's not that hard.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

mrdazzo7 said:


> also i'd love to once again give props to several media outlets that spoiled the **** out of this whole thing without so much as a warning. I get that there's still a faction of society that thinks everyone watches a show the minute it airs but people should still put a warning before articles that have to do with stuff like this. It's not that *herd*.


fyp.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mrdazzo7 said:


> Haven't they shown a number of times in prior seasons that humans covering themselves in blood and cuts allows them to walk straight by without becoming dinner?


No, they've covered themselves in zombie goo. Blood & guts is like covering yourself in zombie FOOD.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought it was ridiculous that the blood splattered all over Glenn's face, but not because it came from the wrong side, but simply because the angle of Nicholas' gun would have sent the blood splatter out the left side of Nicholas' head. I'm not sure how the blood splatter left his head and turned 90 degrees to the right to land on Glenn's face.
> 
> Also, after all the rounds Glenn and Nicholas fired at the walkers before they climbed the dumpster, how did Nicholas even have any ammo left?


Hmm if you watch the video above where they both tumble off the dumpster, there doesn't appear to be any type of exit wound on Nicholas's head. Perhaps Nicholas didn't shoot himself, or a sniper shot him.

I thought I saw someone over on the grassy knoll...


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Hank said:


> It's called "TV"... in an alternate reality with zombies. A dumpster with a crawl space is pretty much the most believable thing about this show.





DevdogAZ said:


> I thought it was ridiculous that the blood splattered all over Glenn's face, but not because it came from the wrong side, but simply because the angle of Nicholas' gun would have sent the blood splatter out the left side of Nicholas' head. I'm not sure how the blood splatter left his head and turned 90 degrees to the right to land on Glenn's face.
> 
> Also, after all the rounds Glenn and Nicholas fired at the walkers before they climbed the dumpster, how did Nicholas even have any ammo left?


If Glenn & Nick are standing at right angles (i.e., not parallel, or face-to-face) to each other, then Glenn's face can get sprayed on the right, although I agree that the SFX person seemed to spray Glenn from directly beside him. It was also a bit sloppy to show Nick's left side of his head with no exit wound during the fall from the dumpster.

But once on the ground and properly lubricated with Nick's slippery blood, Glenn could just reach his arms over his head and grab the underside of the dumpster and easily slide right underneath. He's a skinny guy, after all.

And as far as reality goes in TV shows, just think about Jack Bauer in "24" with constantly available hi-speed internet access and cell phones with batteries that never drain, and guns with infinite amounts of ammo, as well as nobody needing to drink water to rehydrate (as when Rick runs a marathon to the RV). And people heal from wounds at supernatural rates.

The only characters I don't care about are the guys with weird hair (Carl, mullet man & the Army guy). Daryl could use a shampoo.


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## ACoolDude (Dec 11, 2001)

NVM. Spoilerish for a different show. [Comment from previously linked HufPo article]


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

I can't believe people are even contemplating the idea that one person can hide perfectly underneath another similarly sized person so that none of their limbs or other body parts stick out while a horde of pushing and shoving ravenous zombies eat the person on top of them and not get bit or scratched themselves. It's preposterous and I can't believe for one second that this is what the writers are going to try to have us believe. It would be a total jump the shark moment if they try to get away with this.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> Is Talking Dead stuff spoiled?


The consensus last season was that TD stuff is supposed to be spoilerized unless it's in the title of the thread, and the thread starter gets to make that distinction, but people seem to be ignoring that this season.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Jim_TV said:


> I can't believe people are even contemplating the idea that one person can hide perfectly underneath another similarly sized person so that none of their limbs or other body parts stick out while a horde of pushing and shoving ravenous zombies eat the person on top of them and not get bit or scratched themselves. It's preposterous and I can't believe for one second that this is what the writers are going to try to have us believe. It would be a total jump the shark moment if they try to get away with this.


I agree with you but also don't think he's dead. I can't reconcile those two things.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> I can't believe people are even contemplating the idea that one person can hide perfectly underneath another similarly sized person so that none of their limbs or other body parts stick out while a horde of pushing and shoving ravenous zombies eat the person on top of them and not get bit or scratched themselves.


Nobody has suggested that Glenn hid perfectly underneath Nick. But only the walkers at the front of the horde could reach the biohazardous buffet that was Nick when the camera pulled away to the bird's eye view before the walkers could get to Glenn for a bit of Mandugwa (Korean dessert). 



Jim_TV said:


> It's preposterous and I can't believe for one second that this is what the writers are going to try to have us believe. It would be a total jump the shark moment if they try to get away with this.


The whole premise of the series is preposterous! And if they are going to jump anything, I'd say they risk jumping the *sharkNADO*!

But, in this alternate apocalyptic universe, it's all good ... try to go with the flow & just chill, man. Zennnnnnn ......


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

tlc said:


> Wow. Didn't look that roomy when Glenn was writhing in front of it. At this point, I _hope_ they're just playing with us. It would be a really cheesy save.
> 
> And Nicholas, "Thanks" for what? Letting you redeem yourself a bit? Or snapping you out of it so you could shoot yourself?


I took it as a "Thanks" for "believing in my redemption".


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I pretty much firmly believe that Glenn did not die and they are going to wait to the mid-season finale before the holidays to reveal it. 

Just like they did after they all left the prison and what happened to Judith and before that with what happened to Beth and before that what happened to Sofia...


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although being covered in blood would make him even more zombie-bait (as opposed to being covered in zombie gore, which would protect him).


I'm still surprised they don't use this more though. Many times, they'll have dead walkers available and about to face another horde and they just go in guns blazing. I'd be covering myself with Walker gore all the time.

I even thought Glenn and Nicholas should have done that. Haul a couple of walkers up on top of the dumpster, stab them in the head and cover yourself with them. Rick has that option too, probably, while trapped in the RV - just bring one on board.

I think Rick could also get on top of the RV, from the inside, and ride out the storm for awhile.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

spartanstew said:


> I'm still surprised they don't use this more though. Many times, they'll have dead walkers available and about to face another horde and they just go in guns blazing. I'd be covering myself with Walker gore all the time.


Third Law of TWD universe. If you cover yourself in walker goo, it will rain at the most inopportune moment.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> I'm still surprised they don't use this more though. Many times, they'll have dead walkers available and about to face another horde and they just go in guns blazing. I'd be covering myself with Walker gore all the time.
> 
> I even thought Glenn and Nicholas should have done that. Haul a couple of walkers up on top of the dumpster, stab them in the head and cover yourself with them. Rick has that option too, probably, while trapped in the RV - just bring one on board.
> 
> I think Rick could also get on top of the RV, from the inside, and ride out the storm for awhile.


I betting the show creators wish they hadn't used that option before. Because now if they used it whenever possibly, there would be far less drama. So they ignore that option like it didn't happen.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I think Glen should live. Either way it's horrible writing. The scenario that led to what we saw was stupid and completely contrived as a means to achieve shock value. So either he dies because of stupid writing or he lives because of stupid writing.

Even though I liked the episode, it had more stupid moments than the average episode. Ninja walkers abound, and 5 minutes of Michonne trying to move her foot.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I thought for sure Michonne's sword would knock something off the shelf and alert the Walkers!


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

If Glenn is dead, that was a very unsatisfying and vague death for such an important character.

comic book spoiler


Spoiler



Not even close to his death in the comics - so if he's dead, I'm not sure why they'd depart so far from it, especially since they just introduced the Ws anyway.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MonsterJoe said:


> If Glenn is dead, that was a very unsatisfying and vague death for such an important character.
> 
> comic book spoiler
> 
> ...


???


Spoiler



The Wolves are original to the TV show; they don't appear in the comic book.


----------



## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ???
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



I just used the TV show's name for them. did Negan's gang have a name in the comics? I don't remember. Was this crew not supposed to be negan's gang?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I think its a 90% certainty that Glenn is dead. The problem I have is that it was handled so clumsily. Glen tried to redeem Nickolas time and time again, only to be proven wrong. Then he gets taken out by Nickolas committing suicide? That fall into the walkers seemed very contrived, like they did take after take trying to make it look real, then just gave up. I'm not saying Glenn should have gone out in a blaze of glory, i.e. Merle, but given the quality of the show, it could have been shot a lot better.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MonsterJoe said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I just used the TV show's name for them. did Negan's gang have a name in the comics? I don't remember. Was this crew not supposed to be negan's gang?





Spoiler



Negan's group is called the Saviors, and they don't just randomly attack people...they're more like Mafia protection racketeers. "Give us supplies or something terrible will happen to you."


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

As the camera rises above the RV you can see a house to the right. Chekhov's cottage?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I believe Glenn will survive.

What I found very confusing was the whole Daryl story line. I never knew where he was riding and then how he got back to the lead car. BTW, what are the people in the lead car supposed to do being 20 miles out?


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I think Daryl was driving away to go help in Alexandria, but at some point heard something over the radio that made him go back. It was not at all clear though, you're right.

20 miles out they just think is far enough away that they don't need to worry about the herd, so they just speed away then double back.

I thought it was really dumb how lost the Michonne group seemed to be. They are executing this plan and they aren't very far from Alexandria (based on how fast Morgan got back) yet after running for a long while they end up in an abandoned town that's still miles from Alexandria? What?


----------



## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

getreal said:


> The whole premise of the series is preposterous! And if they are going to jump anything, I'd say they risk jumping the *sharkNADO*!
> 
> But, in this alternate apocalyptic universe, it's all good ... try to go with the flow & just chill, man. Zennnnnnn ......
> ]


That's a cop out to say that the whole series is preposterous. Obviously zombies aren't real and these are all actors playing roles for a tv show, and we all agree to suspend our disbelief in that as viewers for the sake of entertainment in this and every other dramatized tv show. That doesn't mean we all give up our right to criticize if something totally unbelievable within the context of the show happens.

In this case with Glenn, let me make a rough analogy of why the idea of him even potentially being alive him makes no sense: Say that Glenn was a rugby player who fell under another player while carrying the ball in the middle of a scrum and that there were dozens of other strong and aggressive players trying desperately to get at him to touch him and rip the ball away from his hands. Is is realistic to think that he could conveniently hide underneath the other player's body and not get touched by the many others pushing and grabbing at him?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Zevida said:


> I think Daryl was driving away to go help in Alexandria, but at some point heard something over the radio that made him go back. It was not at all clear though, you're right.


I agree it wasn't clear, but the impression I had was that Rick's mic was hot and Daryl heard the gunfire when the Wolves stormed the camper.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> That's a cop out to say that the whole series is preposterous. Obviously zombies aren't real and these are all actors playing roles for a tv show, and we all agree to suspend our disbelief in that as viewers for the sake of entertainment in this and every other dramatized tv show. That doesn't mean we all give up our right to criticize if something totally unbelievable within the context of the show happens.
> 
> In this case with Glenn, let me make a rough analogy of why the idea of him even potentially being alive him makes no sense: Say that Glenn was a rugby player who fell under another player while carrying the ball in the middle of a scrum and that there were dozens of other strong and aggressive players trying desperately to get at him to touch him and rip the ball away from his hands. Is is realistic to think that he could conveniently hide underneath the other player's body and not get touched by the many others pushing and grabbing at him?


Rugby players are human beings attempting to compete in a sport with specific rules. Their motivation would not be to attack the player on top of him. The zombies are opportunistic. If he somehow doesn't expose any of his body parts too much, they at least wouldn't be starting out by eating him, even if they later saved him for dessert.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

danterner said:


> I agree it wasn't clear, but the impression I had was that Rick's mic was hot and Daryl heard the gunfire when the Wolves stormed the camper.


So why return to the herd?


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

The timeline at this site has been updated. 

It's interesting to see how this season fits together since they keep switching back and forth between the two groups in different episodes.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

I watched the scene again last night. When they are doing that overhead shot while zooming out with all of the walkers crowding around Glenn at first you can sort of see Glenn's head, but then after a while you don't see it there anymore, but I don't know if that is because of shadows of the walkers or because it is zoomed out too much.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

The more I think about it, I believe Glenn will be dead, but they shot it specifically to be ambiguous (no blood in mouth, guts too high, etc) just to draw it out with the fans. That combined with no "closure" on TD...it's all just to draw out the "did he or didn't he" piece.

If I had to guess, there will be some part of the "closure" put into play at the mid-season finale (either he's found dead, or is seen as a Walker). With the implications of his death or the need to deal with Walker Glenn playing out in the second part of the season.


----------



## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Zevida said:


> I think Daryl was driving away to go help in Alexandria, but at some point heard something over the radio that made him go back. It was not at all clear though, you're right.


Rick basically tells him to go back (of course, he doesn't know that Daryl is on his way, but he's telling them not to come back so Daryl turns around).

Rick "Won't be long now, they're almost here. I'll get them going your way again"
Sasha: "How about that Darryl? He's gonna be coming our way"
Rick: "There's gunfire coming from back home. We got to sit with it and hope they can handle it. I think they can, they have to. We keep going forward for them. Can't turn back cause we're afraid"
Abraham:" We aint afraid"
Rick" "This is for them. Going back now before it's done would be for us. The herd is almost here"


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

My g/f who's on twitter a lot asked "what happened? Everyone's talking about it on twitter".. (she doesn't watch the show).. so I showed her the clip with Gelen and explained all the controversy and is-he-isn't-he dead.. and she said "ugh, that's really bad". And she's a fiction writer.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> Rugby players are human beings attempting to compete in a sport with specific rules. Their motivation would not be to attack the player on top of him. The zombies are opportunistic. If he somehow doesn't expose any of his body parts too much, they at least wouldn't be starting out by eating him, even if they later saved him for dessert.


Oh come on, you're really reaching now. The crush of zombies aren't lining up neatly in a single file line to daintily eat one human being's entrails while another one lays just inches below clearly exposed to zombies on all sides.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

An eaten person does not become a walker.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

danterner said:


> I agree it wasn't clear, but the impression I had was that Rick's mic was hot and Daryl heard the gunfire when the Wolves stormed the camper.


I think that is why it is so unclear because as I remember it, he hears the gunfire and then appears to speed up to help Rick and then suddenly he's decided to go back to leading the herd.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Jim_TV said:


> Oh come on, you're really reaching now. The crush of zombies aren't lining up neatly in a single file line to daintily eat one human being's entrails while another one lays just inches below clearly exposed to zombies on all sides.


To be fair, I do not see anyone arguing that Glenn is "hiding" under Nicholas.

The speculation is that he _landed_ under Nicholas, that those are Nicholas' guts, and that his position when he hit _may_ have allowed him to roll under the dumpster during the pan out.
I see a distinction there.

I have no clear opinion other than 1) a long term character like Glenn would generally get a better, more meaningful death 2) the scene was shot at such an odd angle as to be remarkable 3) the lack of an In Memoriam is tricksy, and 4) I think we are being intentionally misdirected.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> An eaten person does not become a walker.


Sure they do. Remember the very first walker (well, crawler) that Rick ever encountered in the Pilot?


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Cearbhaill said:


> To be fair, I do not see anyone arguing that Glenn is "hiding" under Nicholas.
> 
> The speculation is that he _landed_ under Nicholas, that those are Nicholas' guts, and that his position when he hit _may_ have allowed him to roll under the dumpster during the pan out.
> I see a distinction there.


It's a distinction without a significant difference as far as I am concerned. If anything the randomness of his chance landing underneath Nicholas makes it even slightly more ridiculous that he could avoid getting grabbed and bitten by a crush of ravenous zombies on top of both of them.



Cearbhaill said:


> I have no clear opinion other than 1) a long term character like Glenn would generally get a better, more meaningful death 2) the scene was shot at such an odd angle as to be remarkable 3) the lack of an In Memoriam is tricksy, and 4) I think we are being intentionally misdirected.


I agree with all four of your points and I have to conclude that we *better* be getting intentionally misdirected here because if they try to pull this off as Glenn getting away from this alive, it will be the first time in the history of this show where I am seriously annoyed by such an implausibility. Maybe I'm getting too worked up over this- but if they expect us to take this show seriously (for what it is) then they can't get away with this. No way, Jose.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

MacThor said:


> Sure they do. Remember the very first walker (well, crawler) that Rick ever encountered in the Pilot?


Or the guy in this very episode that was abandoned on a run.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Schrodingers Glen?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Big Deficit said:


> Schrodingers Glen?


Nice! :up:

Here's another theory:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...d-character-is-alive_562f9dd7e4b00aa54a4b4480

Nicholas was out of bullets. Plot, or continuity error?



> Was it all just a hallucination? Could the clicks just be an error in the episode? Did Nicholas somehow reload his gun?


And my favorite line in the article:



> For the love of Pete, does anyone know why there are so many fences in this town?


----------



## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

After reading some other debates on this subject I am now convinced that the reason that Steven Yeun didn't appear on Talking Dead is because Glenn, while dead and partially eaten, will be making another appearance- probably two episodes from now- as a walker that his poor wife Maggie has to put down herself, much to her horror.


----------



## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Funny random thought: why don't the zombies ever eat the brains? Seems like they always go for the guts, but traditionally zombies eat braaaaiiiins.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Zevida said:


> Funny random thought: why don't the zombies ever eat the brains? Seems like they always go for the guts, but traditionally zombies eat braaaaiiiins.


If the only way to kill a zombie is a traumatic brain injury, then zombies eating brains would stop new zombies from forming and thereby ending the zombie apocalypse as they eventually cease to exist.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Zevida said:


> Funny random thought: why don't the zombies ever eat the brains? Seems like they always go for the guts, but traditionally zombies eat braaaaiiiins.


For the same reason that walkers seem to instantly develop eggshell thick sculls immediately after death. Add that to how they decompose rapidly up to the point of losing mobility, then stop decomposing.

"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show,
I should really just relax
For Mystery Science Theater 3000."


----------



## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

Zevida said:


> Funny random thought: why don't the zombies ever eat the brains? Seems like they always go for the guts, but traditionally zombies eat braaaaiiiins.


Only the Return of Living Dead movies series had zombies eating brains.


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## 2004raptor (Dec 31, 2005)

Finally watched this last night. Although I heard the "rumor" that glen might die in this episode. Overall the episode was decent. I still don't understand what the point of Daryl leaving and then rejoined the walker parade. 

I also kinda hate how it looks like we'll not be seeing the full cast in upcoming episodes. I know they've done that before but I typically don't like it when they do.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

trnsfrguy said:


> Only the Return of Living Dead movies series had zombies eating brains.


And the current TV show "iZombie".


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

heySkippy said:


> And the current TV show "iZombie".


Never seen that show. But, you reminded me that the movie "Warm Bodies" also had zombies that ate brains.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> I agree with all four of your points and I have to conclude that we *better* be getting intentionally misdirected here because if they try to pull this off as Glenn getting away from this alive, it will be the first time in the history of this show where I am seriously annoyed by such an implausibility. Maybe I'm getting too worked up over this- but if they expect us to take this show seriously (for what it is) then they can't get away with this. No way, Jose.


You're never seriously annoyed by ninja zombies who appear in the midst of a group of humans already biting someone or other ways that zombies behave in totally inconsistent manners?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> You're never seriously annoyed by ninja zombies who appear in the midst of a group of humans already biting someone or other ways that zombies behave in totally inconsistent manners?


I would be fine with Glenn surviving, actually. It's the ninja zombies that I find completely annoying. Everyone is standing around then a zombie materialized out of thin air and bites someone. Nobody heard it coming and nobody could've possibly missed seeing them coming. Yet, it happens 3-5 times per season.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I would be fine with Glenn surviving, actually. It's the ninja zombies that I find completely annoying. Everyone is standing around then a zombie materialized out of thin air and bites someone. Nobody heard it coming and nobody could've possibly missed seeing them coming. Yet, it happens 3-5 times per season.


I would guess it's happened more than 5 times in this season already.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

MacThor said:


> Sure they do. Remember the very first walker (well, crawler) that Rick ever encountered in the Pilot?


To be fair we have zero evidence that guy was eaten. We have yet to see a walker that was completely consumed in the way Nicholas (and perhaps Glenn were).


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't understand all the people that are confused by Darryl. He left because he thought he'd be able to provide more help at Alexandria then riding in front of the herd. Then Rick said over the radio that they all had to do their jobs, and that going back would be selfish. That must have resonated with Darryl, especially because Rick has two kids back there and even he was sticking with the plan of trying to draw the herd away, so how could Darryl justify it when he has nobody at Alexandria that he loves in that way.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't understand all the people that are confused by Darryl. He left because he thought he'd be able to provide more help at Alexandria then riding in front of the herd. Then Rick said over the radio that they all had to do their jobs, and that going back would be selfish. That must have resonated with Darryl, especially because Rick has two kids back there and even he was sticking with the plan of trying to draw the herd away, so how could Darryl justify it when he has nobody at Alexandria that he loves in that way.


Pretty sure Darryl loves Carol more than he loves everyone else in the group combined.

Anyway, even after Rick said that he didn't turn around. Only when it seemed like something bad was happening did he turn around.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

markz said:


> If the only way to kill a zombie is a traumatic brain injury, then zombies eating brains would stop new zombies from forming and thereby ending the zombie apocalypse as they eventually cease to exist.


That's the same logic that "some people" use when talking about gay couples not being able to procreate and therefore should not get married. That implies that they will also become extinct. But the "logic" is deeply flawed. In this Walker World, all people who eventually die will become a walker (with egg-shell skulls and shark bite human teeth).



2004raptor said:


> ... I still don't understand what the point of Daryl leaving and then rejoined the walker parade ...


I have a theory I'm calling "Chekov's gigantic steaming turd" whereby Daryl had to relieve himself, and it will come back into play when Walkers step in it and ... well, I haven't really completed my theory ...


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

heySkippy said:


> Before they fell off the dumpster, I joked to my wife that I wondered if someone could get on hands & knees and crawl under a scrum of walkers without them knowing what was happening, or at least before they could react. The seem good focusing on something ahead of them, but what about straight down?
> 
> Now I'm wondering if that's what they'll have Glennnn do.


I had a similar thought. The zombies are so pressed together - with further zombies pushing up from behind - that there's essentially no way for them to reach down. So if Glenn could somehow get out from under Nicholas's body unscathed from those first few zombies that are eating Nicholas, he could army crawl to freedom through/under the zombie herd.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> To be fair we have zero evidence that guy was eaten. We have yet to see a walker that was completely consumed in the way Nicholas (and perhaps Glenn were).


To be fair it was a woman and they did a whole series of webisodes to show how she wound up there.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Anyway, even after Rick said that he didn't turn around. Only when it seemed like something bad was happening did he turn around.


I don't think we ever saw Daryl actually turn around at all. Either he did it while we weren't watching, or he just took appropriate roads that eventually got him back to join up with Abraham and Sasha (lucky for him he met them there... if he'd arrived just a few minutes later he'd have run right into the herd!!)

So, we don't know exactly when he decided to go back. During any one of those shots of him zooming along a road he could have been heading anywhere.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

madscientist said:


> I don't think we ever saw Daryl actually turn around at all. Either he did it while we weren't watching, or he just took appropriate roads that eventually got him back to join up with Abraham and Sasha (lucky for him he met them there... if he'd arrived just a few minutes later he'd have run right into the herd!!)
> 
> So, we don't know exactly when he decided to go back. During any one of those shots of him zooming along a road he could have been heading anywhere.


He made a turn at some point, which is when I inferred he had changed his mind.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> He made a turn at some point, which is when I inferred he had changed his mind.


But how did that whole scenario (of breaking away from the walker parade and ultimately returning) serve to advance the storyline?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

getreal said:


> But how did that whole scenario (of breaking away from the walker parade and ultimately returning) serve to advance the storyline?


You're seriously asking a question about one thing that happened in a TV show that apparently didn't "advance the storyline"? Are you new to "earth"?


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Jim_TV said:


> now convinced that the reason that Steven Yeun didn't appear on Talking Dead is because Glenn, while dead and partially eaten, will be making another appearance- probably two episodes from now- as a walker


No, if that was the case TTD memoriam would just have him twice first as Glenn and then as zombie Glenn. I am not 100% sure they have done that before but they might have with Merle maybe?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> You're seriously asking a question about one thing that happened in a TV show that apparently didn't "advance the storyline"? Are you new to "earth"?


Actually, I am sworn to secrecy re: my origin story. 



Cainebj said:


> No, if that was the case TTD memoriam would just have him twice first as Glenn and then as zombie Glenn. I am not 100% sure they have done that before but they might have with Merle maybe?


I think we discovered Merle as a walker at the moment that Daryl discovered his bro' in that state.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Hank said:


> Here's another theory:
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...d-character-is-alive_562f9dd7e4b00aa54a4b4480
> 
> Nicholas was out of bullets. Plot, or continuity error?


I just read the article... Definitely interesting...

- Out of bullets
- Incorrect blood spray pattern

All of this stuff is not an accident... The writers and directors are usually pretty good about these details...they would not have been so wrong and have left this vague by accident...


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Actually with ninja walkers etc I would say that they are not actually that good with some of the details.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I would be fine with Glenn surviving, actually. It's the ninja zombies that I find completely annoying. Everyone is standing around then a zombie materialized out of thin air and bites someone. Nobody heard it coming and nobody could've possibly missed seeing them coming. Yet, it happens 3-5 times per season.


This is the part that drives me crazy. From any angle in the woods, you can see for a good distance. Then, all of a sudden, WALKER! These people keep getting eaten because they're stupid.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Hank said:


> Nice! :up:
> 
> Here's another theory:
> 
> ...


SFX are added in post, but those "two clicks" sounded to me like the banging on the chain link fence by the walkers.

The idea of a hallucination is intriguing, however. If Nick's brains were blown out, then his heart should stop beating immediately and there should not be so much blood spurting from his abdomen as Nick was being disemboweled and consumed. Then again, if he imagined blowing his brain out of his noggin, that would explain the lack of an exit wound on his left temple as he and Glenn fell.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I just rewatched it again, and now I'm firmly in the "Glenn crawls under the dumpster" camp. Also, the dumpster doors appears to be locked, so there's no jumping into it.

And the "2 clicks" theory doesn't hold water.


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## bluntspoon2 (Jul 6, 2014)

If Glen makes it out of that it's lame. I don't want him to die but that would be pushing all credibility. Even with the whole "the other dude fell on top of him and he's going to crawl under the dumpster theory."

I never yell at the screen but when that guy didn't make it over the fence and they all just stood there....I couldn't help myself "Somebody kill this guy already, good grief."

This is as good a pair of episodes I can remember for this series. I saved the week before to watch again and I rarely do that. It's the same for this week.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

bluntspoon2 said:


> I never yell at the screen but when that guy didn't make it over the fence and they all just stood there....I couldn't help myself "Somebody kill this guy already, good grief."


Yeah, that was absurd. Once the walkers got him, they should have just shot him and put him out of his misery being eaten alive. The whole scene was unnecessary. One of those hiding stealth walkers could have gotten him just as easily.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I agree. Rather than waste your bullets trying to shoot the zombies off of him, do the humane thing and shoot him. This isn't the first time I've thought that.


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## nyc13 (May 31, 2013)

bluntspoon2 said:


> This is as good a pair of episodes I can remember for this series. I saved the week before to watch again and I rarely do that. It's the same for this week.


This. I'm finding myself wishing for a brief hiatus so I can go back and rewatch this whole season.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

bobcarn said:


> This is the part that drives me crazy. From any angle in the woods, you can see for a good distance. Then, all of a sudden, WALKER! These people keep getting eaten because they're stupid.


 It's just a cheat. Walkers are NOISY: they make sounds all the time. They shuffle around which would be quite audible in a forest. They never duck or step over things so they'd bang into trees and branches. There's no way anyone would just be standing around then BANG! Walker lunch, with no warning.

I can kind of see it, maybe, when the Anti-Rick guy got attacked from the tree walker in the first episode this season... that walker was stuck and not moving and the guy ran up and stood next to the tree. But most of these ninja walker attacks are not really reasonable IMO.



bobcarn said:


> I agree. Rather than waste your bullets trying to shoot the zombies off of him, do the humane thing and shoot him. This isn't the first time I've thought that.


Me either. If only Mal was in charge instead of Rick!


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

madscientist said:


> ...
> Me either. If only Mal was in charge instead of Rick!


The first time I thought it was in the 2nd season when they were evacuating Herschel's farm. Everyone was running, and a walker came in from the left, grabbed a woman, and bit into her shoulder (which bugged me because I kept thinking how could she not see one that close?). A few more grabbed her and started biting and she was screaming while the rest of the crew, with guns, looked and backed off. I kept yelling "shoot her! Don't let her suffer!"


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I'm tentatively watching the show again, though I tend to FF through some sections. I'm happy they seem to be making Morgan the conscience, in a way, of the group (I also like his staff moves. That type of action is welcome). Rick is losing more and more of his humanity. He seems quick to dismiss people not part of his original group as separate and expendable.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> I'm tentatively watching the show again, though I tend to FF through some sections. I'm happy they seem to be making Morgan the conscience, in a way, of the group (I also like his staff moves. That type of action is welcome). Rick is losing more and more of his humanity. He seems quick to dismiss people not part of his original group as separate and expendable.


Yes, Morgan seems to be the conscience. However, he has now let the Wolves go a couple of times and they have gone on to kill others, or almost kill Rick.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markz said:


> Yes, Morgan seems to be the conscience. However, he has now let the Wolves go a couple of times and they have gone on to kill others, or almost kill Rick.


Yeah, that's the thing. People on this show are always criticizing Rick for being too harsh, but Rick in the end is always proven right. Even when he really isn't.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

markz said:


> Yes, Morgan seems to be the conscience. However, he has now let the Wolves go a couple of times and they have gone on to kill others, or almost kill Rick.


Even if I was the conscience of the group, I'd be popping a cap in those wolves. They weren't much more than animals. So yeah, get tough and be ready to protect yourself with deadly force. I just started finding a lot of what Rick says to be pretty distasteful. Didn't he basically admit to Alexandria that when they arrived, he debated whether it was worth letting them live or not?

Also, shouldn't they be thinking of ways to find other survivors so their community can grow? Think about it. Every group they've formed has gradually decreased in size, and so far, they only have a single new baby that increases the population. It should start to become obvious soon that if they don't work on not only creating a safe and secure location, but increasing its population so they can reproduce, there won't be much future left for everyone.


----------



## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

That and a concerted effort to eliminate walkers as much as they can to reduce the short term and midterm threat as much as possible. That is why a genocide in the quarry would have been a better option than the herd march. The long term threat is impossible to remove but could be mitigated by vigilance and mandatory head stabbings after death.


----------



## sneagle (Jun 12, 2002)

I was talking to a friend about the episode. After some time (too much time) bantering, he came up with a great theory. The entire episode is an homage, a eulogy, a goodbye to Glenn. 

There are many references to Glenn's character through the episode. I can't list them all. Even the discussion by a character we don't care about being saved by his new wife...that was really the story of Glenn and Maggie. 

Even the title of the episode "Thank You" was us saying thank you to Glenn. 

And then the end. Rick is stuck in a vehicle. Not a tank this time. And Glenn is not there to save him.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

bobcarn said:


> Even if I was the conscience of the group, I'd be popping a cap in those wolves. They weren't much more than animals. So yeah, get tough and be ready to protect yourself with deadly force. I just started finding a lot of what Rick says to be pretty distasteful. Didn't he basically admit to Alexandria that when they arrived, he debated whether it was worth letting them live or not?
> 
> Also, shouldn't they be thinking of ways to find other survivors so their community can grow? Think about it. Every group they've formed has gradually decreased in size, and so far, they only have a single new baby that increases the population. It should start to become obvious soon that if they don't work on not only creating a safe and secure location, but increasing its population so they can reproduce, there won't be much future left for everyone.


Actually, the baby did not increase the population. You could argue that finding out Lori was pregnant is what set Rick and Shane down the path where Shane tried to kill Rick (and got killed himself).


----------



## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

I don't know why people are bothered by so-called ninja walkers seemingly appearing out of nowhere and biting humans. Sure, they are clumsy are not particularly stealthy hunters, but there are plenty of them around randomly coming from all directions as well as bunching up into groups at times. And you have plenty of humans who are stressed, tired, easily distracted and who don't have eyes on the back of their heads to watch in every direction at once. It's not at all surprising that some walkers would get close to people in the woods behind trees or around corners or buildings or in the open. A person or animal who isn't behind secure walls can only dodge aggressive and hungry beasts hunting them for so long until their luck runs out. It only takes one bite or scratch to get killed.


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm always unclear why there are frequently dead PEOPLE around, with no apparent brain or head injury.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

wprager said:


> Actually, the baby did not increase the population. You could argue that finding out Lori was pregnant is what set Rick and Shane down the path where Shane tried to kill Rick (and got killed himself).


Well, I didn't mean literally increase the population by taking a head-count before and after. It's more about _potential_ population growth. Without babies, there's zero potential growth. If people are reproducing, then there's at least potential. They need to create new people faster than they lose them, which they haven't been doing. At least with babies, you're creating new people. But at their rate, humanity is extinct after ten or twenty years. So they should be trying to find more people to build up their community, and work on protecting their community from both dead and living threads, while reproducing as much as possible.


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## nyc13 (May 31, 2013)

The talk of babies reminded me of a rather sick thought I had once. Maybe too much even for fans of the show, so I'll spoiler it



Spoiler



What would happen in the case of a really late miscarriage? Does it become a walker inside the mother? Well, of course it's not walking yet and doesn't have teeth, but yikes.


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Jim_TV said:


> I don't know why people are bothered by so-called ninja walkers seemingly appearing out of nowhere and biting humans.


Because it's stupid. The camera shows it clear from every angle. Then, all of a sudden, zombie! If it was dense woods, it'd be another matter. But sometimes it's ridiculous how much visibility there is, and yet there's suddenly a walker there out of nowhere.



JohnB1000 said:


> I'm always unclear why there are frequently dead PEOPLE around, with no apparent brain or head injury.


Yeah, that's puzzling too.


----------



## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

bobcarn said:


> Because it's stupid. The camera shows it clear from every angle. Then, all of a sudden, zombie! If it was dense woods, it'd be another matter. But sometimes it's ridiculous how much visibility there is, and yet there's suddenly a walker there out of nowhere.
> .


Are you watching a special version of the show on a circular tv with a panoramic view of every angle of approach at every moment? The camera does NOT show it clear from every angle. The camera usually shows one angle of view at a time, and often from the point of view of what one character can reasonably be expected to focus on, not every single one of a group of people's point of views who may be standing at different angles and looking in different directions. I really can't believe this even needs to be explained.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

JohnB1000 said:


> I'm always unclear why there are frequently dead PEOPLE around, with no apparent brain or head injury.


Maybe they had nothing to drink and died of dehydration. Or they ate or drank something poisonous.

Or do you mean dead bodies that are not walking? If that is what you mean, then I do not see the puzzle. We know that most people die and become walkers. But since the mechanism is not understood, I do not find it surprising that some people may not become walkers.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Jim_TV said:


> It only takes one bite or scratch to get killed.


Have we ever seen any hint that a scratch, blood transfer, or indeed anything other than a bite that breaks the skin, will kill?


----------



## BrandonRe (Jul 15, 2006)

john4200 said:


> Maybe they had nothing to drink and died of dehydration. Or they ate or drank something poisonous.
> 
> Or do you mean dead bodies that are not walking? If that is what you mean, then I do not see the puzzle. We know that most people die and become walkers. But since the mechanism is not understood, I do not find it surprising that some people may not become walkers.





heySkippy said:


> Have we ever seen any hint that a scratch, blood transfer, or indeed anything other than a bite that breaks the skin, will kill?


According to the CDC guy, everyone on earth has the virus in them already. It becomes "activated" if that's the right term when the person dies. It doesn't matter how they die. It happens when they die. The only exception that has been shown is when their is damage or injury to the brain.

As we have seen, it isn't being bitten or scratched that kills someone or turns them into a walker. They die due to blood loss, shock, or infection. Then they turn due to the up until then dormant virus in their body.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Bites in this show have been 100% fatal, regardless of blood loss or conventional infection unless someone was standing by to chop off the bitten body part ala Hershel.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> Because it's stupid. The camera shows it clear from every angle. Then, all of a sudden, zombie! If it was dense woods, it'd be another matter. But sometimes it's ridiculous how much visibility there is, and yet there's suddenly a walker there out of nowhere.


Yeah, the classic example is when Rick and Shane were having their showdown in the middle of a field, facing each other...and a zombie sneaked up on them.

That was extreme, but it happens a lot on this show. There is often a pretty radical disconnect between the geography in the writers' mind (at least, one would hope) and the geography of the locations the production crew choose.

I wonder if that's what happened in the Death(?) of Glen scene...there seemed to be so many things Glen and the other guy could have done, but didn't...because the writers didn't know what the alley would look like, and the production team didn't bother to adjust for the differences.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

BrandonRe said:


> According to the CDC guy, everyone on earth has the virus in them already. It becomes "activated" if that's the right term when the person dies. It doesn't matter how they die. It happens when they die. The only exception that has been shown is when their is damage or injury to the brain.


Everyone may be a carrier, but that does not mean that everyone necessarily gets reanimated after death. There could be some people who are somehow immune to reanimation. Obviously the CDC did not get very long to do a thorough study.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

sneagle said:


> I was talking to a friend about the episode. After some time (too much time) bantering, he came up with a great theory. The entire episode is an homage, a eulogy, a goodbye to Glenn.
> 
> There are many references to Glenn's character through the episode. I can't list them all. Even the discussion by a character we don't care about being saved by his new wife...that was really the story of Glenn and Maggie.
> 
> ...


Meh... That's quite a stretch.. people will find meaning in anything that they want to find meaning in.

If I re-watched the episode, I probably could come up with a similar argument about Daryl (like how he left the group and came back "meant" something). Or anyone else, really.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

john4200 said:


> Everyone may be a carrier, but that does not mean that everyone necessarily gets reanimated after death. There could be some people who are somehow immune to reanimation. Obviously the CDC did not get very long to do a thorough study.


I was about to say something similar. Frankly, unless that CDC guy knew something he was not telling, he can't even say that everyone is a carrier. They simply have not tested *everyone*.

So it is very possible that some people, when they die, would not get re-animated, and it's possible that you could study those people's blood to work on a cure.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> Bites in this show have been 100% fatal, regardless of blood loss or conventional infection unless someone was standing by to chop off the bitten body part ala Hershel.


 Walker bites have very strong infectious bacteria which can't be battled by a normal immune system or antibiotics. Once you're bitten and the infection gets into your body, it's 100% fatal as you say, unless the infected area is excised before the bacteria can infect the rest of the body. Note this is not the same thing that turns people into walkers! That's already present in everyone's body. This is something else.

This bacteria is definitely NOT in walker blood or viscera etc. so it's not deadly to get walker guts on you. I also don't remember any evidence that scratching by walkers has the same effect. So I think the bacteria is only contained in walker mouths and only transmitted by walker bites.

You can think of it as if walkers are venomous, like snakes: you have to get bitten. I don't think the show is postulating that walkers are really venomous, but it works out to the same effect.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I'm still waiting for a walker with no teeth. A denture wearing citizen who died without his/her teeth in and is now doomed to walk the Earth as a toothless zombie. Odds are there are a non-zero number of walkers in exactly that situation. It would be awesome to have a beloved character attacked and *seemingly* bitten as the zombie gums a shoulder/arm/leg/etc while everyone else looks on in horror. The reveal could be hilarious.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was extreme, but it happens a lot on this show. There is often a pretty radical disconnect between the geography in the writers' mind (at least, one would hope) and the geography of the locations the production crew choose.


I think you're giving them too much credit. I think they just write cool, interesting stuff.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> I'm still waiting for a walker with no teeth. A denture wearing citizen who died without his/her teeth in and is now doomed to walk the Earth as a toothless zombie. Odds are there are a non-zero number of walkers in exactly that situation. It would be awesome to have a beloved character attacked and *seemingly* bitten as the zombie gums a shoulder/arm/leg/etc while everyone else looks on in horror. The reveal could be hilarious.


Meh...I've seen zombies on this show rip out guts with their hands and eat them...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Zevida said:


> I think you're giving them too much credit. I think they just write cool, interesting stuff.


Right, my point is that when the cool, interesting stuff gets produced, it's sometimes done in locations that don't fit the script, and nobody makes any adjustments. E.g., the alley where Glen "died," where there were at least two possible ways to try to escape that Glen ignored.

That's the impression I get, anyway. That there's a disconnect between the script and the physical location.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I wonder why they don't use some of their old techniques? For instance, covering yourself in viscera is gross, but it works. Michone had the most ingenious method of deteething a walker and leading it around on a leash. She was able to travel with them. It would seem like it'd be a good way to clear out an area. Have your daily patrols grab the decoys and patrol the grounds to kill any walkers they see.

I'm still thinking that the quarry could have been better utilized. If they could have thinned out the herd there, it could have been to their advantage. They admitted that it worked well to attracting stray walkers and keeping them away from the town. If they thinned it down to a smaller amount and reinforced the barricades, they could have kept it as a walker trap and just go in periodically to thin it out again.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

heySkippy said:


> I'm still waiting for a walker with no teeth. A denture wearing citizen who died without his/her teeth in and is now doomed to walk the Earth as a toothless zombie. Odds are there are a non-zero number of walkers in exactly that situation. It would be awesome to have a beloved character attacked and *seemingly* bitten as the zombie gums a shoulder/arm/leg/etc while everyone else looks on in horror. The reveal could be hilarious.


Michonne had removed the jaws of her chained walkers, didn't she?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> I'm always unclear why there are frequently dead PEOPLE around, with no apparent brain or head injury.





wprager said:


> ... it is very possible that some people, when they die, would not get re-animated ...


How about strokes? That would make people "brain dead" at the time of death and should therefore prevent reanimation, right?



heySkippy said:


> I'm still waiting for a walker with no teeth. A denture wearing citizen who died without his/her teeth in and is now doomed to walk the Earth as a toothless zombie. Odds are there are a non-zero number of walkers in exactly that situation. It would be awesome to have a beloved character attacked and *seemingly* bitten as the zombie gums a shoulder/arm/leg/etc while everyone else looks on in horror. The reveal could be hilarious.


I recall in Season 1 when Lori (Rick's wife) figured out she was pregnant with either Shane or Rick's baby, we all discussed this scenario of a child dying in utero and trying to eat it's way out of the womb.

I will also repeat my theory from way back in Season 2 when Judith was finally born, that I speculated that a new child conceived and born of infected parents will be immune to reanimation and that Judith's blood could hold the key to immunizing people from walker bites.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Right, my point is that when the cool, interesting stuff gets produced, it's sometimes done in locations that don't fit the script, and nobody makes any adjustments. E.g., the alley where Glen "died," where there were at least two possible ways to try to escape that Glen ignored.
> 
> That's the impression I get, anyway. That there's a disconnect between the script and the physical location.


I don't think there is any disconnect. I don't think the writers care that much or think it through that deeply.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I think that when Glen and Nicholas ran into that alley they were still looking for something to set on fire. Escape was not yet on their mind. But, regardless, at the end this is not a documentary but a scripted show. "Charlie" had to die and, though the physics of it did not make sense he locked the door to save "Desmond". Same here.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Wprager , given that I am on season 3 of a certain show that's a fantastically unnecessary spoiler about a show that has zero to do with this one.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)




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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Cearbhaill said:


>


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Right, my point is that when the cool, interesting stuff gets produced, it's sometimes done in locations that don't fit the script, and nobody makes any adjustments. E.g., the alley where Glen "died," where there were at least two possible ways to try to escape that Glen ignored.
> 
> That's the impression I get, anyway. That there's a disconnect between the script and the physical location.


People in the real world with no zombie apocalypse don't always make the optimal decisions on how to escape from pursuers- for example, when they are running from the police and don't take the best escape route and end up getting caught. Sometimes they even make bad decisions under no pressure and with no one chasing them like when a pedestrian crosses a street and walks right into an oncoming vehicle because they didn't look both ways.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

But Glen made his living (quite literally) escaping from pursuers...


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But Glen made his living (quite literally) escaping from pursuers...


And he was good at it for a long time. But you only have to make the wrong turn or wrong decision once to die.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

JohnB1000 said:


> Wprager , given that I am on season 3 of a certain show that's a fantastically unnecessary spoiler about a show that has zero to do with this one.


You're going on nearly 9+ years there. That was an incredibly popular pop culture event. Perhaps the spoiler statute of limitations applies here?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Perhaps the spoiler statute of limitations applies here?


Not here. This place is special.

Also, I have no idea what show was being referenced/spoiled.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> Not here. This place is special.
> 
> Also, I have no idea what show was being referenced/spoiled.


Would you say you are "Lost" in this conversation?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Would you say you are "Lost" in this conversation?


Ah, I should have known.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Necromancer2006 said:


> You're going on nearly 9+ years there. That was an incredibly popular pop culture event. *Perhaps the spoiler statute of limitations applies here?*


My g/f wanted to re-watch "Citizen Kane" (one of the characters is named after her grandmother) -- a movie I had never seen before. So we're watching it, and it gets to the part at the beginning when he just says "ROSEBUD".. and my g/f says "here, pay attention to this part, it's important".. and I was like "oh, yeah, it's his sled right?". Over the years, I'd heard that spoiler so many times...


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Perhaps the spoiler statute of limitations applies here?


All joking aside... Is there an understood timeframe where spoilers are no longer considered spoilers? What would that statute of limitation be?

I just finished season 1 of Veronica Mars (2004-2007)... I would hope not to find any Veronica Mars spoilers in any other thread...


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Honestly I don't care that much, but bringing completely unrelated shows into a thread makes little sense. Spoilers about an old but relevant show might be more understandable.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Oh and it was not that big a cultural event if you didn't watch the show. Almost no one I know watched that show and if you didn't follow it then even cultural events would mean nothing to you.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

While I wouldn't purposefully spoil anything, the fact that someone has waited 5-10-or more years to watch a movie or show indicates to me that they are not really afraid of spoilers. So, yes, I would be very much in favor of a statute of limitation. 10 years is more than plenty of time to catch up on something.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Spoilers don't really bother me very much, so I guess maybe my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, but it seems wholly unreasonable to expect to go unspoiled on a show that has been off the air for years. Most especially in a forum such as this, and even more especially regarding a show of the stature of Lost.

Within this forum, Of course, I'd do my best to follow the spoiler rules. But my personal statue of limitations on spoilers is the start of the next season, or, if it's the final season, about a year after the last show.

Edited To Add: To be clear, if I know I'm talking to someone who has not seen a show, I would certainly not spoil it for that person. But we can't all know that about each other here.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I can't really argue with those points but I still don't understand why that comment was necessary, lots of ways to make the same point.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Dawghows said:


> ... my personal *statue of limitations* on spoilers is the start of the next season...












I forgot that this was a Walking Dead thread, so this post didn't help.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

wprager said:


> While I wouldn't purposefully spoil anything, the fact that someone has waited 5-10-or more years to watch a movie or show indicates to me that they are not really afraid of spoilers. So, yes, I would be very much in favor of a statute of limitation. 10 years is more than plenty of time to catch up on something.


Anywhere but here, I would agree.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I try not to spoil anything either, but I'm very sympathetic to spoilers appearing for old shows. I never finished watching "Lost" (I had to search on those two characters names to see what show was being talked about), so anything after about halfway through the second season is a spoiler for me. But I wouldn't begrudge anyone inadvertently posting spoilers for it because it's old enough that people can forget not everyone's seen it. Well, that and the fact that nobody could spoil it more than the director and writers did. I'll never understand why anyone would ever think it's a good idea to never ever let your viewers know what's going on.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

getreal said:


> I forgot that this was a Walking Dead thread, so this post didn't help.


Heh. I don't know if I got autocorrected or if I just simply misspelled the word.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Dawghows said:


> Heh. I don't know if I got autocorrected or if I just simply misspelled the word.


Don't sweat it ... I was sure it was a typo. I trust in your intelligence. :up:


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

The way tv is these days it's about a 50/50 shot that you can take any two characters of any show and say they died, and you'd probably be right.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

getreal said:


> Don't sweat it ... I was sure it was a typo. I trust in your intelligence. :up:


My intelligence is (I like to think) fair to middling, but my typing sux.


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

IMO, there should be no statute of limitations on spoilers for unrelated shows. On the other hand, if it's a show that exists in the same universe (like Fear the Walking Dead) there should be some tolerance for spoilers.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

At some point significant events on iconic shows become part of this wonderful thing we call pop culture. Every episode of The Family Guy is full of spoilers. The term "jumping the shark" is a bit of a spoiler. Half the oft quoted lines from classics like Casablanca are spoiler laden.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)




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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

danterner said:


>


:up::up::up:


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

^^ Is that dumpster chained/locked shut?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> ^^ Is that dumpster chained/locked shut?


Indeed it is.. I noticed that two weeks ago when I rewatched this ep looking for Glenn's alive clues.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

It does look like it's high enough off the ground that Glenn could slide under it.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Hank said:


> Indeed it is.. I noticed that two weeks ago when I rewatched this ep looking for Glenn's alive clues.


Isn't that _very_ unusual?
So much so that it would almost have to be intentional and thus significant?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cearbhaill said:


> Isn't that _very_ unusual?
> So much so that it would almost have to be intentional and thus significant?


It's not at all unusual for commercial dumpsters. The only reason the dumpsters at my buildings aren't locked is because it would be too much of a hassle giving all the tenants access. We spend a lot of money disposing of other people's trash. If there are only a few people who need access and it's in a neighborhood where other people will abuse it, it'll be locked.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I think the "unusual" comment was about the height off the ground.

EDIT: Did a little google search for "commercial dumpster" images. There are quite a few with a bit of clearance. Hard to tell, though, if any are high enough to get under, but Glenn is skinny. Here is one of the images found -- from the name in the link it is apparently a San Diego recycling services dumpster, with an 8" clearance:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Problem is, is there any Dumpster high enough for Glen to get under, but low enough that the zombies can't reach in and drag him out? Logically, of course, the answer is "no," since his body will take more room than their arms. And of course, worst case scenario, they can always crawl in after him...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)




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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Problem is, is there any Dumpster high enough for Glen to get under, but low enough that the zombies can't reach in and drag him out? Logically, of course, the answer is "no," since his body will take more room than their arms. And of course, worst case scenario, they can always crawl in after him...


If it's tight enough that it requires some coordinated effort to crawl under then the walkers will have problems. We've already seen Rick hiding under a tank, surrounded by walkers, but none of them could get to him. In fact, the whole scene is oddly reminiscent. Glenn wasn't riding Nicholas, and Rick's horse did not shoot itself, but otherwise the two scenes are identical


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

wprager said:


> If it's tight enough that it requires some coordinated effort to crawl under then the walkers will have problems. We've already seen Rick hiding under a tank, surrounded by walkers, but none of them could get to him. In fact, the whole scene is oddly reminiscent. Glenn wasn't riding Nicholas, and Rick's horse did not shoot itself, but otherwise the two scenes are identical


The walkers did follow Rick under the tank, he just went up through the trap door.

Walkers are not going to be stopped by tight spaces, even if it rips their flesh off. They won't feel it.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

MacThor said:


> Walkers are not going to be stopped by tight spaces, even if it rips their flesh off. They won't feel it.


Right. But they may lack the dexterity to get down underneath it, especially if they are being pressed together like a tin of zombie sardines.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

bobcarn said:


> This is the part that drives me crazy. From any angle in the woods, you can see for a good distance. Then, all of a sudden, WALKER! These people keep getting eaten because they're stupid.


Just caught up on this last night. This annoys me - not only the lack of visual on the walkers but does their incessant grunting and growling really go totally unnoticed?!

The other thing, and this is typical in many TV shows, is that whenever someone stops a car they immediately (and I think that's an understatement) shut the engine even when only stopping temporarily. And of course Rick does this only to have it not start again and enable the herd to surround.


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