# Advice on burning DVDs



## omelet1978 (Mar 7, 2006)

Hey,

I've been playing around with Tivo for a month or two. I bought sonic dvd 8, but i'm having a lot of problems. I try to burn a dvd, and it will say there isn't enough room, or i'll try to edit out commercials, and it will take forever and crash. I found Nero on ebay for like $15, so when it arrives i'm going to try that. I just have a couple of questions.

1. I record at best quality. A 1 hour show takes about 2 gb of space. Is this the best for DVDs. I read somewhere that actually medium quality is the way to go.

2. Which dvd type is best for Nero? Dvd + or - ? 

3. Any advice for using Nero at all that might help? Hopefully it works better than Sonic


thanks


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## eskay (Jul 23, 2002)

I can't answer all of your questions, but I'll do what I can.

2gb per hour of content is about right. At standard quality, a 4.7gb DVD can hold 120minutes. Take out the commercials and you should be able to fit three hour long shows per disc. I think the reccomendation to record at Medium is because it will be 720x480 whereas Best Quality is 480x480 which has to be encoded to 720x480. Adds another step.

Nero doesn't care if you are using +R or -R, but the drive/machine you use to play the discs will care. Not all are compatible.

Sorry. I don't use Nero to edit, only to burn, so I can't help there. I use TMPGENC MPG editor.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Actually Basic & Medium are both 352x480. (These are DVD compliant and hence the transcode should be much faster).

Hope the copy of Nero (i.e. Nero Vision Express) you bought has the DVD Plug-in, or you won't get very far. 

Also, I wouldn't try feeding NVE a .tivo file. It doesn't work very reliably (screech audio/garbled video bug). Instead free your .tivo file using DirectShow Dump or VideoRedo. If you have any intensions of editing out commercials, VideoRedo is the way to go.


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## omelet1978 (Mar 7, 2006)

" I think the reccomendation to record at Medium is because it will be 720x480 whereas Best Quality is 480x480 which has to be encoded to 720x480. Adds another step."

Ok, so do you loose some quality when you encode to 720x480. Also, how do you do that?

thanks


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

omelet1978 said:


> " I think the reccomendation to record at Medium is because it will be 720x480 whereas Best Quality is 480x480 which has to be encoded to 720x480. Adds another step."
> 
> Ok, so do you loose some quality when you encode to 720x480. Also, how do you do that?
> 
> thanks


When you use Nero Vision Express, it will take whatever .mpg (remember free your .tivo files first!) and "transcode" it to a proper DVD format for burning to DVD. (I think it refers to this part of the process as "encoding", but don't quote me on that!). If you give it a High or Best quality recorded mpg file it will take hour(s) to transcode. It will work, but it will be slowww. As far as quality; my guess is that a High or Best after being transcoded should still look better than a Basic or Medium. But I am not sure on that point.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

omelet1978 said:


> Hey,
> 
> I've been playing around with Tivo for a month or two. I bought sonic dvd 8, but i'm having a lot of problems. I try to burn a dvd, and it will say there isn't enough room, or i'll try to edit out commercials, and it will take forever and crash. I found Nero on ebay for like $15, so when it arrives i'm going to try that. I just have a couple of questions.
> 
> ...


1. I use "High Quality" as my default Tivo record setting when I plan to burn it. Best quality file sizes are ridiculous large file sizes to work with and take too long to transfer. My experience has been that many (as least half) of the recordings made at high quality will fit on a standard DVD, and the ones that don't fit may be automatically reduced in size/quality (nerovision4.

2. Nero doesn't care whether you use DVD+R or DVD-R. Use whatever media your DVD drive prefers.

3. If you have problems burning with nero you can get plenty of advice here. I would expect problems, nothing that can't be tweaked, but I'd be putting the cart before the horse to go into any of the known issues.

I would also advise that you avoid installing the "Template Package" upgrade addon from Nero. If you want custom templates just go to your pictures folder, or take a snapshot from inside nero, and use that. I had to do a reinstall after installing Neros Template package, because it made the "open files" view, tiny, and unusable.

Take Care, Tony


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> I would also advise that you avoid installing the "Template Package" upgrade addon from Nero. If you want custom templates just go to your pictures folder, or take a snapshot from inside nero, and use that. I had to do a reinstall after installing Neros Template package, because it made the "open files" view, tiny, and unusable.


Can you elobarate? I have Nero Vision 4 also and have already installed the Template Package. Which Open Files view do you mean? All of them? I haven't noticed anything like that.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

Hi Greg, 

Yep the open all files console - "as in the add files to project" shrank to unusable proportions after installing the new Template Package (s). I also know of at least one other person this happened to, when I did a web search, trying to figure out what might have gone wrong I found the same things had happened to them. As you probably know, Nero isn't best known for "excellent product support", so i opted to do a re-install. 

Another thing; ever since then I've had this trouble; whenever I try to add animated menu's; the animation plays, but my DVD doesn't seem to recognize the movie (chapter) bookmarks, and just plays the animated menu over and over again. After making many coasters, I gave up on making menu animations work, and my DVD's play just fine without animations, but I'm planing to do more experimenting this weekend.

Do you have any thoughts on that one? 

Thanks, Tony


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

Heres the method I use to quickly burn Tivo files in mpeg-2 format, and burn them using Nerovision4, and without the added  time consuming  process of exporting them, or using DSP or any other encoding software. This method also fixes those files that sometimes show up in separate parts, as well as files which show up as a mostly black screen, with choppy video, and screechy sound. This also worked for me in Nerovision3. I guess I should also mention that Ive only used this method with Tivo recordings recorded at high quality, although I dont know that it matters 

This process includes the well known, delete catch technique, with only one additional *step added. Now lets begin: 

1. Open Nerovision4 and select Make Movie
2. Click on Browse for Media - select all files from the dropdown menu - add your desired Tivo file. You should see analyzing media files please wait
3. Once your file is fully loaded (100%) into the My Media Files window, be sure to add your file to your project by double clicking, or right click and add from the drop down menu. 
a. Now check to see if the file plays, if all you see is a choppy black image with screechy sound - continue to the next step.
b. If the file plays, go ahead to edit, and burn it.
c. If you havent gotten this far you may not have the proper codex installed. Or you have some other issue this document cant solve. 
4. Now Close Nerovision4 and when prompted Dont Save your project. Thats right Dont Save!
5. Next youre going to need to locate your NVFACache Folder. Typical location: C:\Documents and Settings\Anthony D Allyn\Application Data\Ahead\NeroVision\NVFACache. Once you find it create a shortcut to your desktop for easy access. I think plain looking folders on my desktop look rather tacky, so I changed mine to look like a recycle bin. To do the same, right click on your shortcut, choose properties - change icon  select whichever one you like. 
6. Open the NVFACache folder, and delete all the files inside. Dont worry these are only temporary files, precisely the ones created when your file was analyzed in back in step 2.
*7. Start Nerovision again, and choose make movie. You should see the same file weve been working on being  automatically - reanalyzed. *ONLY THIS TIME QUICKLY CHOOSE ABORT. Thats right abort the analyzing process!
8. The file is automatically added, and should now be visible in the My Media Files window, and magically converted to MPEG-2 format. Choose, Make DVD with edited video  DVD Movie, continue editing if you like. You may also save your project at this point. 

If this didnt work for you Im very sorry. If it has worked for you, as it has for me 100s of times, then burn, and enjoy. 

Note: This post was not created with the intent, or to encourage any copyright infringment, or break any other laws, only so that you may enjoy your own personal Tivo files, using your Nero software.


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## mfrns0123 (Mar 25, 2005)

Thanks for the tips, I'll give this a try this weekend.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Heres the method I use to quickly burn Tivo files in mpeg-2 format, and burn them using Nerovision4, and without the added  time consuming  process of exporting them, or using DSP or any other encoding software.


DSP? Did you mean DirectShow Dump (DSD) here? That program is so quick that, IMO, I wouldn't even consider the hassel of using the delete cache method.

Thanks for the heads up on the 3D menus.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

You're right DSP doesn't take very long at all, but it does require learning another program. it's the exporting in Nerovision method which takes way too much time; i'm sure there are many people wasting the hours away using that method.

I'm curious about DirrectShow Dump 

1. How long does DSP take to process a file?

2. After using DSP does neovision still have to analyze the file, when adding it to your nero project?

I never tried dirrectshow dump mainly because I don't want Net framwork installed on my computer. If you run MSCONFIG you should see a program called "mscorsvw.exe" running in the backround (startup item). IMO I get faster boot times, and faster burns, without this - unnecessary - program running in the backround. 

Deleting the NFVACache Folder, and reloading Nerovision takes me less than a minute, but I really have no way of comparing the two methods.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Advice on burning DVDs:

Avoid, the smoke is toxic.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> I'm curious about DirrectShow Dump
> 
> 1. How long does DSP take to process a file?
> 
> ...


Since I am a .NET certified developer I am little biased towards the .NET framework. 

I don't think anybody abbreviates DirectShow Dump; DSP. That is really confusing. :down:

DSD only takes as long as it takes to read the data and write it back onto disc. Once the file is freed you have a lot more software options. VideoRedo internally does the samething as DSD. In fact now, the new beta version will even append the .tivo header backonto the file when done. (Haven't tried Nero yet with the header put back on).

Nero will still analyze the file first, it is the transcoding part that is a killer. Here are a fews ways to avoid that (or at least speed it up):

A) don't use NVE (or similiar program)*
B) transcode to proper DVD format first
C) record you .tivo files in a proper DVD format to begin with (Basic or Medium)

*There are DVD authoring programs that can work with un-proper DVD mpegs


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

OH! DSD, of course  I'm not used to abrviating that one i guess, or it could be a Tivo overdose. 

Now I'm think my hard earned money might have been better spent on "VideoRedo". I went to their web site and I like what i see. I wish I would've at least tried the VideoRedo demo, before ungrading my Nero product.

I'll also have to try burning some "medium quality" Tivo files. As it is, it takes well over an hour for NV to do the transcoding part of the process, and that's on a fast machine. 

Thanks for the imput! i wish I would've found this imformation earlier, but it's not for a lack of searching on my part. 

And I still haven't been able to figure out why my buttons don't work in an animated menu (NV). I did find that if I press stop twice, and then play, the DVD will play, but otherwise the menu animation playes as if it were the movie. Any ideas on that one?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Now I'm think my hard earned money might have been better spent on "VideoRedo". I went to their web site and I like what i see. I wish I would've at least tried the VideoRedo demo, before ungrading my Nero product.


VideoRedo and Nero go hand-n-hand. VR is the best for cutting commercials. Nero Vision is the best (IMO) for authoring DVDs. Wouldn't use one w/o the other.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> And I still haven't been able to figure out why my buttons don't work in an animated menu (NV). I did find that if I press stop twice, and then play, the DVD will play, but otherwise the menu animation playes as if it were the movie. Any ideas on that one?


I'll try making a disc with that kind of menu and see what kind of success I have.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

I already sorted it out; the nerovision4 version i had installed had a menu bug. Info is in the Nero7 release docs, and the newest version corrects the problem. 

I had to use nero7 clean tools to remove the version I had, and then do a reinstall of the current version. I haven't tested the new version yet, but I don't expect there to be any more problems with animated menus.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> VideoRedo and Nero go hand-n-hand. VR is the best for cutting commercials. Nero Vision is the best (IMO) for authoring DVDs. Wouldn't use one w/o the other.


Thanks for your help. I just DLed the trial version VideoReDo :up: and I can't wait to give it a good trial run this weekend. I have a 3 hour (high quality) recording of "The Aviator" in the burner right now. It's a 3 hour long movie and just as much time in NV.

And you're right Nero is the best... I just wish the customer support was better, and they should've done more testing before releasing Nero7. Hopefully the bugs are worked out now. Have you tried using the Nero update tool yet? I could never get it to work, and haven't tried it in the latest version.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Have you tried using the Nero update tool yet? I could never
> get it to work, and haven't tried it in the latest version.


Where's "update tool" located at?

The Nero update button in Nero Smart Start (from v6) always worked for me (click on the Nero upper left and go to screen that shows build numbers). But it looks like they removed it from 7.  I manually went to their website last week and downloaded latest build, but it forced me first to uninstall what I had. Never used to have to do that.

What build number of VR is the trial? The tivo support has just been added within the last couple months. (v2.2.1.445 ?? )

The keeping header info is still only in the beta build. (2.2.1.456)

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/forumdisplay.php?f=24


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## mfrns0123 (Mar 25, 2005)

greg_burns said:


> Where's "update tool" located at?
> 
> The Nero update button in Nero Smart Start (from v6) always worked for me (click on the Nero upper left and go to screen that shows build numbers). But it looks like they removed it from 7.  I manually went to their website last week and downloaded latest build, but it forced me first to uninstall what I had. Never used to have to do that.


Greg, under Nero Start Smart Extras, use the smart people mode, Select Nero Product setup, from there you can do updates.

I used this the other day and it also forced me to uninstall, after that update I could no longer access Nero Product setup. I had to do a complete uninstall and install from the original.  Good luck


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> Where's "update tool" located at?
> 
> The Nero update button in Nero Smart Start (from v6) always worked for me (click on the Nero upper left and go to screen that shows build numbers). But it looks like they removed it from 7.  I manually went to their website last week and downloaded latest build, but it forced me first to uninstall what I had. Never used to have to do that.
> 
> ...


First: Maybe I should have mentioned that I have the downloaded version of N7, not the hard copy.
1. The Nero update tool can be found here: Start - All Programs - Nero7 ultra Addition - New Product Setup - Check the "Update My Nero products" tab. I just tried it myself and it seemed to want to download some updates, but then I chickened out. I wanna create a system restore point first.
Question: Did you use the "N7 Clean Tools" before reinstalling? I didn't even know there were any until yesterday. Support - Tech Support - Tools -
2. VR Version 2.1 is the trial version. I believe it supports Tivo, but i haven't installed it yet. The keeping the header is available in the beta version, but "The TopField (rec) and MCE (dvrms) output is only enabled for registered users. This restriction will remain until we have verified the quality of the output" Doesn't that mean I won't be able to use the output files? I also don't quite understand why keeping the "header info" is important. Don't i want the headed info changed to mpeg-2? I'm a VR noob  
3.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

mfrns0123 said:


> I used this the other day and it also forced me to uninstall, after that update I could no longer access Nero Product setup. I had to do a complete uninstall and install from the original.  Good luck


This is precisely why I just aborted the update process, and that reminds me I have actually done 3 reinstalls of NV7


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> 2. VR Version 2.1 is the trial version. I believe it supports Tivo, but i haven't installed it yet. The keeping the header is available in the beta version, but "The TopField (rec) and MCE (dvrms) output is only enabled for registered users. This restriction will remain until we have verified the quality of the output" Doesn't that mean I won't be able to use the output files? I also don't quite understand why keeping the "header info" is important. Don't i want the headed info changed to mpeg-2? I'm a VR noob


It's been awhile since I used the trial version. I believe it still outputs to mpg (but maybe only the first 30 minutes).

If it doesn't recognize .tivo extension change to filetype to *.*. If it still doesn't work install the latest beta. (I believe it will still be trial until registered). In fact I would do that anyways if you haven't yet installed it.

The header info is only important if you want use TivoCombeback (where you put your .mpg/.tivo files back onto your Tivo box). Without the header info it will not group or display all the program details.

Some more info...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=284726


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> This is precisely why I just aborted the update process, and that reminds me I have actually done 3 reinstalls of NV7


Well thanks guys for showing me where the update thing has disappeared to. I NEVER would of found there. Course, not sure how I found it were it used to be either. 

Just tried it. :down: :down: :down:

After uninstalling Nero (again!!!) it wanted to reboot too before downloading. Let it do that... the Nero downloader starts up after rebooting even before the Windows destkop. Says it is going to download 70MB+ file approx 10 minutes. But nothing is happening. (And I can't even use the computer, I have to wait for it to finish...). So I bailed and clicked cancel.

Just went to their download site and downloading the 100MB+ manually installer.
http://ww2.nero.com/nero7/enu/nero7-up.php

It at least is progressing (and I can continue to do other things).


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## mfrns0123 (Mar 25, 2005)

I thought I would give updating a try one more time, why I have no idea, Just spent the last 15 min uninstalling and re installing again!!!


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

mfrns0123 said:


> I thought I would give updating a try one more time, why I have no idea, Just spent the last 15 min uninstalling and re installing again!!!


Excuse me Sir, but I believe you may have forgotten to insert this little icon 

i'm so glad I aborted the N7 update process this morning  But at least it connected and who knows, before too long it may actually work!


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Excuse me Sir, but I believe you may have forgotten to insert this little icon
> 
> i'm so glad I aborted the N7 update process this morning  But at least it connected and who knows, before too long it may actually work!


   

How's that?

You may not be so happy you aborted after all. I aborted (albeit after the reboot and during the download) and now the manual download won't install.

I keep getting "Another installation is in progress. You must complete that installation before completing this one." Rebooting is not fixing it!

Now I don't have any version of Nero installed.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> How's that?
> 
> You may not be so happy you aborted after all. I aborted (albeit after the reboot and during the download) and now the manual download won't install.


I must have aborted (chickened out) before, just before the download started. If you were asked to reboot my guess is that the download had already completed, not downloading anything, but rather uninstalling Nero7.  Buggy huh

You're probably going to want to use Nero's Nero7 clean tool before doing another reinstall. Be sure you have your product key saved, because clean tools clean the registry as well.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> I must have aborted (chickened out) before, just before the download started. If you were asked to reboot my guess is that the download had already completed, not downloading anything, but rather uninstalling Nero7.  Buggy huh
> 
> You're probably going to want to use Nero's Nero7 clean tool before doing another reinstall. Be sure you have your product key saved, because clean tools clean the registry as well.


Actually it wanted to reboot because it installed the "download manager" thingie.

I was just trying the clean tools (both the v7 and the general). It is not happening.

I am about ready to run Ghost and restore my image from last week. This is a nightmare. There must a registry setting somewhere that is tripping this up, but I don't have the energy. Nero 6 ... I miss ya already.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> Actually it wanted to reboot because it installed the "download manager" thingie.
> 
> I was just trying the clean tools (both the v7 and the general). It is not happening.
> 
> I am about ready to run Ghost and restore my image from last week. This is a nightmare. There must a registry setting somewhere that is tripping this up, but I don't have the energy. Nero 6 ... I miss ya already.


Before doing anything too drastic I would suggest checking your registry "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \ SOFTWARE \ ahead \ Installation \ Families\Nero7\Info" and look for anything relating to Nero6. If so, run Nero6 cleantool as well. Also when cleantool is cleaning choose "yes" when asked if you'd also like to remove all file associations... or something to that affect.

Check add and remove programs for the update manager install, and do a windows search for anything "Nero". Maybe something needs to be manually deleted?


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## mfrns0123 (Mar 25, 2005)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Before doing anything too drastic I would suggest checking your registry "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \ SOFTWARE \ ahead \ Installation \ Families\Nero7\Info" and look for anything relating to Nero6. If so, run Nero6 cleantool as well. Also when cleantool is cleaning choose "yes" when asked if you'd also like to remove all file associations... or something to that affect.
> 
> Check add and remove programs for the update manager install, and do a windows search for anything "Nero". Maybe something needs to be manually deleted?


This is what I did also Greg, Searched anything with Nero and deleted it, rebooted and did the install, everything worked again.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

mfrns0123 said:


> This is what I did also Greg, Searched anything with Nero and deleted it, rebooted and did the install, everything worked again.


Thanks guys. Deleting the Nero program files folder did the trick. Now I am reinstalling. I trust the latest version of Ghost even less than I do Nero 7. 

Give me Ghost 2003 and Nero 6 and I'll be happy. What is this crazy desire to have the latest of everything? [TimAllenVoice]ARGH-ARGH-ARGH[/TimAllenVoice]


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Respectfully, why do you bother updating? What are you going to get in the new version that you need?


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Respectfully, why do you bother updating? What are you going to get in the new version that you need?


It's a sickness. I'm going to meetings, so get off my back. 

Now where's that Vista CTP I just downloaded...


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> It's a sickness. I'm going to meetings, so get off my back.


I know that sickness...I used to have it.

I don't want to through this off track, but now that I have your attention, I am relapsing into illness myself by thinking about installing QT7 for Windows and going to QT7 Pro.

Here is why: I have a bunch of .mov files I want to edit/merge and export to something WMP can play like AVI or ideally MPEG2 for my TiVoes. I figure QT7 Pro should be an easy way to work with the files. I don't need anything all that fancy.

Here is my fear: The QT7 Player I just downloaded says it comes with iTunes6 software. I am deathly afraid of installing iTunes and having it take over my PC. I am also a little afraid of QT7 taking over things too, but iTunes scares the heck out of me.

Am I nuts? If so, in which way?

Thanks.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Here is my fear: The QT7 Player I just downloaded says it comes with iTunes6 software. I am deathly afraid of installing iTunes and having it take over my PC. I am also a little afraid of QT7 taking over things too, but iTunes scares the heck out of me.


What Apple doesn't want you to find...

Download Standalone QuickTime Player


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> What Apple doesn't want you to find...
> 
> Download Standalone QuickTime Player


I love you.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> It's a sickness. I'm going to meetings, so get off my back.


LMAO Yeah I have it bad too just look at my user name 

I just Dled the newest version of Nero7 yesterday, but I just couldn't help - myself - had to check see if the nero updater bugs have been worked out, obviously not  Nero must think of their customers as paying beta testers.

I feel like the pied piper encouraging people to also run Nero7 update 

Hey Greg, you were right about which version od VideoRedo to DL - newest beta version - and after playing around with it long enough to output a file, I found that nerovision is taking the same amount time to transcode the stream (during the burn process), about 2 hours on a 3 hour file recorded at high quality. Maybe i should record something in medium quality to see if that's what's taking so long, but I would expect the same results. Oh now that I think about it I'm sure I have some low quality recordings I could experiment with. Time to make some more coasters 

Granted: VideoReDo is more responsive when editing out commercials, but I can't justify purchasing it for that reason alone, although i'm sure it's just a matter of time before I need it to play edited tivo files back to tivo. I still haven't been able to quite grasp the concept... is there additional equipment required for that? BTW I was just shopping at Costco, and the hard drive I've been eyeballing - Western Digital 400Gig SATA - has dropped to only $200 now. Yeah it's a sickness


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Hey Greg, you were right about which version od VideoRedo to DL - newest beta version - and after playing around with it long enough to output a file, I found that nerovision is taking the same amount time to transcode the stream (during the burn process), about 2 hours on a 3 hour file recorded at high quality. Maybe i should record something in medium quality to see if that's what's taking so long, but I would expect the same results. Oh now that I think about it I'm sure I have some low quality recordings I could experiment with. Time to make some more coasters


From the expirimenting you can dramatically shorten transcode times if your original .mpg (or .tivo) file is already in a proper DVD format. Just so happens Basic & Medium are in such a format (352x480). High is 480x480). Best is too (except for us Dish Network guys - 540x480).

"Official DVD aspect ratios are 352x240, 352x480, 704x480, or 720x480."

Dan023 talked about in another thread exporting from VR as VOBs and using some other authoring software which elimantes the transcode altogther. Haven't gotten that far yet with my playing around.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Granted: VideoReDo is more responsive when editing out commercials, but I can't justify purchasing it for that reason alone, although i'm sure it's just a matter of time before I need it to play edited tivo files back to tivo. I still haven't been able to quite grasp the concept... is there additional equipment required for that?


Yes, responsiveness and ease of use, are really the only reason to go with VR. (Oh, and Ad-Detective is preat slick too!) But I couldn't stand using Nero Vision for cutting commercials. If you use NV, you'll probably have to use DSD in order to have much success at it.

You don't need additional equipment. At the bottom of your Tivo's Now Playing List you should see your PC listed as a folder. (If you have TivoDesktop installed on you PC). Just open it up and start uploading files back to your Tivo. They don't have to be just .tivo files either.

Finally, you don't have to buy VR to reattach the .tivo headers to your freed/edited .mpg files either. My little app Tivo Attach does it just fine, but VR is 10x more convienent.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> If you use NV, you'll probably have to use DSD in order to have much success at it.
> 
> 
> > 1. I really don't have any trouble using NV succesfully, and without using DSD. Nero just dumps the file using the tecnique I laid out here.
> ...


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Greg:

One thing I have found with MPEGInspector is that all .tivo files have an audio offset, and each .tivo has a different offset. Running MI on a post DSD .mpg shows this. I have found that VR corrects this when it puts out your edited file to mpeg. If you put the file through something like ffmpeg, the audio offset is lost, but not corrected.

Have you also discovered these audio offsets? I think it has implications for complaints about audio sync in the final results.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

I can't believe it, but when I go to create chapters in Nerovision4 the buttons are gone. The "automatically detect chapters" button is there, but sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't (even though the CPu is working 100%) and I have no manual buttons for adding, or deleting, chapters. 

I wondered if someone - wink wink - could check to see if they're having the same issue in NV4? 

Nero won't be getting any more money from me for future products until they've been tested and proven.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Greg:
> 
> One thing I have found with MPEGInspector is that all .tivo files have an audio offset, and each .tivo has a different offset. Running MI on a post DSD .mpg shows this. I have found that VR corrects this when it puts out your edited file to mpeg. If you put the file through something like ffmpeg, the audio offset is lost, but not corrected.
> 
> Have you also discovered these audio offsets? I think it has implications for complaints about audio sync in the final results.


I am no MPEG2 expert (in fact I don't know anything about their file structures), but is this offset you are talking about at byte 12? I noticed a lot of tivo files have different values here. 0x3400, 0x3800, 0x4000, 0x4400 etc...

I was asking Dan at VR why his reattached headers don't respect that value, but I am not sure he understood my Q. (Probably didn't help that I didn't understand what I was asking.)

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=2208


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> I am no MPEG2 expert (in fact I don't know anything about their file structures), but is this offset you are talking about at byte 12? I noticed a lot of tivo files have different values here. 0x3400, 0x3800, 0x4000, 0x4400 etc...
> 
> I was asking Dan at VR why his reattached headers don't respect that value, but I am not sure he understood my Q. (Probably didn't help that I didn't understand what I was asking.)
> 
> http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=2208


I don't know about the location in the file of the audio offset stat. MI reports in its main summary screen that the audio starts XXX ms before/after the video.

xxx has been anything from a few ms to well over 200 ms. The average is probably over 100 ms.

If I take the mpeg into VideoRedo, and do nothing but output it back to mpeg, no audio offset is reported in MI on the new mpeg. I believe the audio is at that point BETTER synched to the video, from my observation.

I have not tried to take the original .tivo into VR and output it to mpeg to see if VR also "corrects" the synch. I'd have to compare a post DSD-.tivo to a post VR-.tivo with MI.

In contrast, FFMPEG will drop the audio offset, without actually correcting the synch.

My theory is that TiVo puts a random offset between audio and video streams into each recording. I don't know why it would though. However, if I really look, I can tell there is a discrepancy between audio and video even with a TiVo recording simply played on the TiVo.


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## omelet1978 (Mar 7, 2006)

Ok,

I'm the original poster of this message. I've ordered Nero, and it should be here soon. This is what I want to do. I tape a few shows like Lost, Alias, Battlestar Galactica. I want to create DVD's with 3 episodes each on them. Editing out commercials seems pretty time consuming, so I'd like to do the entire file (is that possible?). I'm still unsure if I should use best or medium quality.

Also a couple more questions. I have a small 19 inch lcd tv with a digital cable box. Will I get a better picture quality if I move the tivo to a normal crt tv?

Also, is there a significant reduction in quality from Best to Medium? Or Best to High?

Thanks


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Nero Vision will squeeze pretty much whatever quality tivo file (after freeing w/ DSD) you throw at it onto a DVD. This squeezing/compression looks really bad, IMO.

I've never been able to fit more than two 1-hour episodes (recorded High quality, w/ commercials removed) on a DVD w/o compression.

In order to fit 3 episodes on a DVD *w/o compression* you are going to have to record them in Medium quality. A side benefit is that the will by in a proper DVD format (352x480) so the transcode portion will be quicker.

Cutting commercials using Nero Vision is slow and painful (again IMO). VideoRedo is very quick. I can do a hour show in under a minute. (If you let AdDetective run first it will take longer, but makes it much easier.) Downside; VR is not cheap.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> I can't believe it, but when I go to create chapters in Nerovision4 the buttons are gone. The "automatically detect chapters" button is there, but sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't (even though the CPu is working 100%) and I have no manual buttons for adding, or deleting, chapters.
> 
> I wondered if someone - wink wink - could check to see if they're having the same issue in NV4?
> 
> Nero won't be getting any more money from me for future products until they've been tested and proven.


I'm finally sending a complaint to nero and I hope everyone esle who's unhappy with nero7 issues will do the same.

Tittle subject: "Problems found in N7 ver. 7.0.8.2, and NV4 ver. 4.1.0.13"

Body of text: "I've become a more than a little dismayed by all the bugginess found in Nero7. Loyal paying customers shouldn't be treated as beta testers. In other words I think it was bad business practice to release Nero7, when it should be obvious to everyone - unfortunate enough to have purchase this product - that it hadn't been thoroughly tested first. 
1. The update function still doesn't work. That is unless un-installing Nero7 is the goal. I know at least 2 other Nero users besides myself who have had to do clean - re installs of Nero7, after attempting to use the update features found in the "new product setup" menu. Could you at least inform people that the update feature should be avoided until the bugs are worked out of it? 
2. Although the newest release of Nero7 fixes the issue that made it impossible to create a functioning animated menus, By the way I wasted many DVD-R Discs trying to figure out what the problem was and although you must have my e-mail address I was never contacted by Nero informing me that there was a known problems with my product. 
3. The main reason I'm taking time to write you today is that I'm now having problems when trying to "create chapters" in nerovision4. 
a. Chapter creation only functions properly when performed before the movie file has been edited in any way. 
b. If chapter detection is attempted after editing the movie, the chapter detection runs and runs, with 0% progress."


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

TJ:

If you edit the files, can you output to mpeg? If you can then you could import the completed mpeg and then define chapters - no editing. That might get you going, even if it is nothing like it should be.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> TJ:
> 
> If you edit the files, can you output to mpeg? If you can then you could import the completed mpeg and then define chapters - no editing. That might get you going, even if it is nothing like it should be.


I think i'll try to see if i can get a successful result using VideoReDo to cut the ends off - movie - then add effects and chapters and menus in nero, and see if I can get a successful burn that way. As it turned out even if i created the chapters first, then edited... the burn process locks up with 5% progress and NV4 need to be ended in task manager. 

Another note to Nero tech support was in order: "After creating a DVD movie that includes editing and chapters, the
burn process hangs at (5%) transcoding menus. At that point the burn
process freezes, and the program ended by windows task manager.

Alternatively if the movie isn't edited, but chapters are inserted,
the burn process is successful.

I think I'll go back to using nero6 until you get these problems worked out."


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## Scott Atkinson (Jan 19, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Respectfully, why do you bother updating? What are you going to get in the new version that you need?


One serious answer: with Nero and EMC, you keep hoping the next update will take out the bugs, give you back what you had three updates ago but with some new features.

I beat (and still do sometimes) my head against the wall with both programs. until I finally realized the awful truth: _they're not very good._

So for Tivo files, I edit with Video ReDo, transcode as necessary with TMPG's Enc 3, and burn with either TMPG's dvd program or - new favorite - DVD Lab.

As far as I'm concerned, the worst of Nero and MCE isn't even the fact that they don't work easily - or at all, in the case of EMC 8. The worst is how they gum up/slow down/take over your system.

All the other tools I've mentioned here work well - I forgot to mention Direct Show Dump, which I'll use in combination with TMPG's mpeg editor if I don't want to use Video Redo, and the promising open source editor mpeg2cut2 - and none of them wrap vines around the rest of my computer.

s.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

Scott Atkinson said:


> One serious answer: with Nero and EMC, you keep hoping the next update will take out the bugs, give you back what you had three updates ago but with some new features.
> 
> I beat (and still do sometimes) my head against the wall with both programs. until I finally realized the awful truth: _they're not very good._
> 
> So for Tivo files, I edit with Video ReDo, transcode as necessary with TMPG's Enc 3, and burn with either TMPG's dvd program or - new favorite - DVD Lab.


Your correct: The latest update was supposed to fix the animated menu's bug - after burning the dvd player would play the animation only - and I got my hopes up too high, only to find that the project won't burn at all if it contains animated menus. Took me a couple hours to track down exactly what the problem is.

Nero is very unresponsive even on a fast system, but it doesn't hog my system too much, especially if i set the burn priority to "below normal". I'm burning a project right now, minus any animated menus of course. 

What I like about Nero - besides the fact that DVD Shrink uses Nero's burning rom  - are all the bells, and whistles; animated menus, chapter detection, and a nice looking, user friendly interface. And Nero is what I'm used to and humans tend to avoid change, but I'm going to have to check-out DVD Lab and other options, because next time I'm NOT going to automatically go with Nero again.

VideoReDo is a great little product, and I'm sure it will only get better with time. You can tell just by looking at their web site that the VideoReDo care about their customers needs. Or at least they understand that customer loyalty depends on good customer service.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

I just burned an animated disc using the "golf" template (to an .nrg image) no problem. (latest build: 7.0.8.2)

Gotta ask... are you still using your method of adding encrypted .tivo files rather than using VR or DSD? Maybe therein lies the problem.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> I just burned an animated disc using the "golf" template (to an .nrg image) no problem. (latest build: 7.0.8.2)
> 
> Gotta ask... are you still using your method of adding encrypted .tivo files rather than using VR or DSD? Maybe therein lies the problem.


Yep ver. 7.0.8.2, with NV4 ver. 4.1.0.15

I did try using a file edited in VR, used a jpeg image for the backround, and animated buttons in menu. I guess it could be that the file I'm trying to use is corrupt - not sure why i think that - ruling out everything else... i'll have to try it again tonight using a a different file.

thanks for checking your version for the same problem :up:


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Yep ver. 7.0.8.2, with NV4 ver. 4.1.0.15
> 
> I did try using a file edited in VR, used a jpeg image for the backround, and animated buttons in menu. I guess it could be that the file I'm trying to use is corrupt - not sure why i think that - ruling out everything else... i'll have to try it again tonight using a a different file.
> 
> thanks for checking your version for the same problem :up:


Always try another file before thinking it is something else.

My policy - I have MyDVD - is to do everything in other programs, and then import the final content into MyDVD for burning. Just import the files and burn DVD with no other work on them. MyDVD manages to accomplish this in general.

The thing about MyDVD is that it doesn't do 352x480 output. Everything therefore gets transcoded either to 720x480 or 352x240. That's a big negative over what you can apparently do with Nero - skip transcoding.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> The thing about MyDVD is that it doesn't do 352x480 output. Everything therefore gets transcoded either to 720x480 or 352x240. That's a big negative over what you can apparently do with Nero - skip transcoding.


With that in mind, did you see what I posted last night?

Interesting stuff (to me). This is pretty much what you and I discovered previously, but I had forgotten already.


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## Joey Bagadonuts (Mar 13, 2006)

I've been reading the forum about burning TiVo DVDs and well, I am quite confused. No, actually, I am totally confused. Matter of fact, look up "confused" in the dictionary and there you'll find me. 
I read a CNET review of TiVo togo and they addressed burning DVDs and they made it sound like a piece of cake. However, in reading some of the comments here, I am wondering if they sugarcoated the process. All I want to do is transfer a program I've recorded via TiVo to a DVD disc that will be playable on DVD players attached to a TV set (editing out the commercials would be nice but not totally necessary if it's going to cause me to have a stroke). I was under the impression all I needed was an external DVD burner for one of my PCs and the Sonic MyDVD software. However in reading some prior posts, it seems there is a lot more to it than just that. 
Can someone either explain what exactly I need to purchase or point me to a link that outlines exactly what I need to do, please? I'm not computer illiterate by any means but when it comes to making DVDs, well, let's just say that other than being able to spell D-V-D, I am a total idiot. 

Thanksk in advance for any assistance...


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Joey Bagadonuts said:


> I've been reading the forum about burning TiVo DVDs and well, I am quite confused. No, actually, I am totally confused. Matter of fact, look up "confused" in the dictionary and there you'll find me.
> I read a CNET review of TiVo togo and they addressed burning DVDs and they made it sound like a piece of cake. However, in reading some of the comments here, I am wondering if they sugarcoated the process. All I want to do is transfer a program I've recorded via TiVo to a DVD disc that will be playable on DVD players attached to a TV set (editing out the commercials would be nice but not totally necessary if it's going to cause me to have a stroke). I was under the impression all I needed was an external DVD burner for one of my PCs and the Sonic MyDVD software. However in reading some prior posts, it seems there is a lot more to it than just that.


1. Don't believe everything you read.
2. Welcome to the club.

3. MyDVD is probably the worst choice. People are doing much better with Nero. If I didn't already have MyDVD (or if I made many DVDs) I'd get Nero or something else.

Others are better with details...I am sure you'll get more advice.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> With that in mind, did you see what I posted last night?
> 
> Interesting stuff (to me). This is pretty much what you and I discovered previously, but I had forgotten already.


Its good you pointed it out because I had not been reading that thread since early in its life.

You are getting the results we discussed...lucky you with Nero.

You are most likely managing to get Nero to not only accept the 352x480 output resolution, but also the same bit rate from the .tivo (2.5mbps) Changing bit rates is time consuming too. I never tried to measure if there are important differences between bit rates (file size), or if transcoding BOTH bit rate and resolution takes longer than just one alone. File size will affect time just because of longer time for disk I/O, but processor time ????

The SAs that use MP2 audio have to have their audio transcoded to AC3 by Nero (or whatever program.) Audio transcode is a fraction of the effort of video.

Your 4 hours of Medium on one DVD gives me pause because that should be too much for the DVD; did you edit out commercials? That could get you under the wire.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

HDTiVo said:


> Your 4 hours of Medium on one DVD gives me pause because that should be too much for the DVD; did you edit out commercials? That could get you under the wire.


No cutting commercials. I did cheat and added the same 1/2 hour show 8 times...


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> Always try another file before thinking it is something else


After experimenting with different files I've managed to track down the source of my frustration - transcoding and burning a large file with animated menus.

As it turns out what seemed like nero crashing with the CPU locked at (100% usage was just a painfully slow transcoding time (transcoding animated menus) in nerovision.

Using the same file I had been trying to use - high quality recording of "tombstone" length 2:15 - i then split the size in half, added 5 chapters (instead of 13) plus the animated menu (a 15 sec. movie clip). After letting it run for several minutes it finally started to progress 1%, and continued to run until the "time remaining" could be estimated at 3 1/2 hours. That's at least an hour more than usual - for me - using a file this size, and a full hour just to transcode the menu! I did have a similar problem last week using "aviator" another very large file.

Could it be that nero, when they re-wrote the code for menu animation that wasn't working at the time, the result was a function that will work, but at a painfully slow pace? who knows  but i guess time will tell.

I just made a coaster using a tivo file recorded at medium quality, @ half D1 and these look like the errors

[22:01:35] NeroVision 10:01:23 PM	#25 SPTI -1106 File SCSIPassThrough.cpp, Line 290
[22:01:35] NeroVision E: CdRom1: SCSIStatus(x02) WinError(0) NeroError(-1106)
[22:01:35] NeroVision Sense Key: 0x03 (KEY_MEDIUM_ERROR)
[22:01:35] NeroVision Sense Code: 0x73
[22:01:35] NeroVision Sense Qual: 0x03
[22:01:35] NeroVision CDB Data: 0x2A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 
[22:01:35] NeroVision Sense Area: 0x70 00 03 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 73 03 
[22:01:35] NeroVision Buffer x08880000: Len x10000
[22:01:35] NeroVision 0x00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 
[22:01:35] NeroVision 0x00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 
[22:01:35] NeroVision 0x00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 
[22:01:35] NeroVision 
[22:01:35] NeroVision 10:01:23 PM	#26 CDR -1106 File Writer.cpp, Line 302
[22:01:35] NeroVision Power calibration error
[22:01:35] NeroVision E: SONY DVD RW DRU-720A

I wasn't entirely happy with the way my drive looked - fragmented - before I did my last install of N7, so I'm thinking of doing doing yet another re-install of nero7. Does anyone know of a good aftermarket disk utility (defragmenter)? i'm not thrilled about the one that came with xp.

I haven't had much time to fiddle with this stuff today or tomorrow... busy with work. thanks for any help in advance


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TivoJunkie43 said:


> Does anyone know of a good aftermarket disk utility (defragmenter)? i'm not thrilled about the one that came with xp.


I just got spammed again today for PerfectDisk Live that I demoed last year.  It is neat because you don't even need to install it. It runs as an activeX control or something.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Nice screen shot, Greg.

You really are burning 4 full hours (actually 4:00:04 !) (~4.8GB source) with a menu to slightly less than the full DVD. The conclusion is that the bit rate is being transcoded - like DVD Shrink does with DVDs. So it looks like a (modest?) bit rate transcode is pretty quick with Nero.


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## TivoJunkie43 (Mar 9, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> I just got spammed again today for PerfectDisk Live that I demoed last year.  It is neat because you don't even need to install it. It runs as an activeX control or something.


I found a nice freeware defragmenting tool called http://www.softwarevault.com/Backup-Utilities/Diskeeper-Lite.xml

It takes the place of MS defag in the startup menu, and IMO DKL does a much better job.

So, after reinstalling N7, and updating my DVD-burner firmware I did a successful burn of a medium quality tivo file - Beautiful Girls 1 hr 50 min - using default resolution half D1, with no menus or effects. It took about 8 minutes to transcode the stream, and 5 minutes to do the actual burn, which is about 5 times faster than setting resolution at Standard D1, or recording in high quality, and reducing burn quality.

If I look closely in the backround (s), and shadows, i see a little pixilation, but overall I'm surprized at how good it looks. Just as good as a high quality recording that's been automatically reduced to fit a standard DVD-R. The speed increase IMO is worth any decrease in quality, and I think these are the standard settings i'll be using for most future recordings.

Way to go Greg :up:


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