# Survivor - 5/13/12 - The Finale



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Very deserving winner. So, was it 7-2?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

It had to have been 7-2. I can't imagine Jeff not making it as dramatic at possible, and I don't believe there's any precedent for him not to do so.

Even though this was a somewhat lackluster season, I'm fairly happy with the ending because, for a change, I thought all 3 of the finalists were pretty good candidates (though I'm surprised Chelsea seemed to fare so poorly...guess I didn't see the ***** side they all referred to so much).

For the reunion, I wish we could have heard a lot of booing for Colton. That guy is just trash. And listening to his mother up there saying "he's not like that"...we'll surprise mom. Even the mothers of murderers often say "he's not lie that...he's a good boy". At least Alicia seemed to honestly be ashamed of herself (not that it makes me think much better of her...still think she's a piece of trash) but Colton's apology felt like a bunch of crap


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Yeah, Bill nailed it when he basically said that there was no reason (game wise) to make those comments when it was just 1-on-1 with the camera.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

and who knew that Kat had the most mature speech in her.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Ya, you don't "own up" to things you say and "apologize" and say "but...." to excuse the behavior.

He's a hateful little brat, who seemingly didn't learn much.

Mommy excusing him only made it worse.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

About he previews for next season


Spoiler



They better not even THINK of making Colton one of the 3 returning


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Watching a little behind, Bill looks like he should be backing Gladys Knight..


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> About he previews for next season
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



I think he will be, as Jeff hinted at it when interviewing Blossom (WTF?) I thought that _all_of the contestants would be medical casualties, but it's only three. I am still hoping for a season consisting solely of first-voted-out contestants.


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

Langree said:


> Watching a little behind, Bill looks like he should be backing Gladys Knight..


He was a cross between Vernon Reid (from Living Colour) and high-80s Prince...


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> It had to have been 7-2. I can't imagine Jeff not making it as dramatic at possible, and I don't believe there's any precedent for him not to do so.


Not only that but he asked everyone who voted for Kim to raise their hands, and only Troyzan and Leif did not.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Ok, this is the first time I have watched Survivor in years so this is going to sound like a dumb question.

When did they start sending the final 3 to the jury? I always remembered a final 2 at the jury. Why would they change it??


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

nyny523 said:


> Ok, this is the first time I have watched Survivor in years so this is going to sound like a dumb question.
> 
> When did they start sending the final 3 to the jury? I always remembered a final 2 at the jury. Why would they change it??


The first time they had 3 was in the Cook Islands in 2006. They have had a final 3 a number of times since then. I guess they think it is supposed to add more drama? But usually the votes go between 2 of the people and the 3rd one gets no votes, so I don't think it really does.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Why is Probst allowed to tell Alicia she's untying the bags of her competitors? I hate when he inserts himself in challenges like that.

I wish he had asked during the reunion what the plan would have been had Kim not won the last immunity challenge.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I looked it up, they have done a final 3 in:

2006 - Cook Islands
2007 - Fiji
2007 - China
2008 - Gabon
2009 - Samoa
2010 - Heroes vs. Villains
2010 - Nicaragua
2011 - Redemption Island
2011 - South Pacific
2012 - One World


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Thanks laria!

And I think a final 3 is dumb. A final 2 has more suspense, IMO...


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I missed Kat's speech (lost antennal signal, grrr). What were some of the key things she said?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

laria said:


> I looked it up, they have done a final 3 in:
> 
> 2006 - Cook Islands
> 2007 - Fiji
> ...


Is that list complete? I thought that since they went to a final 3, they've never gone back to 2. Is my memory that bad from only 3 years ago?


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Is that list complete? I thought that since they went to a final 3, they've never gone back to 2. Is my memory that bad from only 3 years ago?


I'm pretty sure they've had a final 2 at least once since they first had a final 3.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

steve614 said:


> I missed Kat's speech (lost antennal signal, grrr). What were some of the key things she said?


Basically that she forgives everyone, told them she had a confession, that she had heart surgery twice as a kid, last time at age 12 (?) and will need it again next year. That you can't let yourself go on hating. Stuff like that. Then she made some plea to the rest of the jury to not be bitter. From all of the editing we've seen of her sitting on the jury in previous tribals (and even this one, before she spoke), I thought she would have been the most bitter. Turns out she was the least bitter (though nobody seemed particularly bitter this time...maybe Troy a little bit).


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> Why is Probst allowed to tell Alicia she's untying the bags of her competitors? I hate when he inserts himself in challenges like that.
> 
> I wish he had asked during the reunion what the plan would have been had Kim not won the last immunity challenge.


Is there a rule against helping others?


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## omnibus (Sep 25, 2001)

When Probst was interviewing Colton's mama in the audience he asked a question of the audience comparing Colton to Russel. There was a strong reaction but I did'nt get it. Can anyone elaborate?


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

omnibus said:


> When Probst was interviewing Colton's mama in the audience he asked a question of the audience comparing Colton to Russel. There was a strong reaction but I did'nt get it. Can anyone elaborate?


The take I get is that they "like" Russell and they didn't like the comparison of the two.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

omnibus said:


> When Probst was interviewing Colton's mama in the audience he asked a question of the audience comparing Colton to Russel. There was a strong reaction but I did'nt get it. Can anyone elaborate?


Russell you loved to hate.

Colton you just hated.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Really happy that Kim won, but taking Chelsea and Sabrina inserted a LOT of unnecessary risk in that she gave the jury two viable options when they would have had none in Alicia and Christina. I thought for sure Kim was doomed, but I'm happy I was wrong; still, it was really stupid.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

laria said:


> The first time they had 3 was in the Cook Islands in 2006. They have had a final 3 a number of times since then. I guess they think it is supposed to add more drama? But usually the votes go between 2 of the people and the 3rd one gets no votes, so I don't think it really does.


The reason for final 3 is to avoid a final tribal council with one player taking a goat, resulting in a blowout vote with no suspense (such as if it were Kim vs Christina). It's harder to get two goats to the end, although still possible (Boston Rob).


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Is that list complete? I thought that since they went to a final 3, they've never gone back to 2. Is my memory that bad from only 3 years ago?


Yes, I went through the seasons on the Wikipedia and noted which had 3.  The ones that had 2 since then were:

2008 - Micronesia
2009 - Tocantins


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Roadblock said:


> The reason for final 3 is to avoid a final tribal council with one player taking a goat, resulting in a blowout vote with no suspense (such as if it were Kim vs Christina). It's harder to get two goats to the end, although still possible (Boston Rob).


That makes sense.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

LordKronos said:


> Basically that she forgives everyone, told them she had a confession, that she had heart surgery twice as a kid, last time at age 12 (?) and will need it again next year. That you can't let yourself go on hating. Stuff like that. Then she made some plea to the rest of the jury to not be bitter. From all of the editing we've seen of her sitting on the jury in previous tribals (and even this one, before she spoke), I thought she would have been the most bitter. Turns out she was the least bitter (though nobody seemed particularly bitter this time...maybe Troy a little bit).


I was really surprised by her demeanor... pleasantly surprised. But I'm curious... if she had open heart surgery why didn't we see any scars? There were plenty of bikini shots of Kat. 

Speaking of Troy... what _was_ the correct answer to his question of Kim? Since he didn't vote for her I assume "when I got rid of Jonas" wasn't the right answer. 


Neenahboy said:


> Really happy that Kim won, but taking Chelsea and Sabrina inserted a LOT of unnecessary risk in that she gave the jury two viable options when they would have had none in Alicia and Christina. I thought for sure Kim was doomed, but I'm happy I was wrong; still, it was really stupid.


I think Kim knew she had it in the bag regardless.

But what the hell was up with Christina laying down like that? No effort at all to make final three?!?! Really, that was the most boring final episode of Survivor EVER! 

I'm glad this season is over.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

It really missed something with the final three thing. I don't like that there is not some final grand challenge to narrow it down to two. Funny I never noticed Kat's surgery scar until the after-show where it seemed to really stand out. Also I hope they eventually do a season in a cold or desert like environment instead of a tropical one. Survivor Sibera or Sahara would be awesome.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

jradosh said:


> I was really surprised by her demeanor... pleasantly surprised. But I'm curious... if she had open heart surgery why didn't we see any scars? There were plenty of bikini shots of Kat.


Can scars be removed by plastic surgery? I could totally see a women wanting her scar gone.

That said, I myself have had open heart surgery...an artificial valve, which I suspect is the same thing Kat had. I had mine done over 25 years ago (I was 10 years old at the time). I've got a big scar a foot or so long, 3 one-inch holes for drainage tubes, they had to crack a rib to perform the surgery, and you're in the hospital for at least a week. At some time in the future I'll have to have it replaced again, and my doctor tells me that now, they just make a 1-2 inch incision over your heart, work between the ribs, and you are out in a few days.

My dad had a valve replacement 5 years ago, and that's exactly how it worked out. I'm not sure how long ago they started doing it that way, but if it was at least 5 years before my dad, then Kat would have had the same thing, and you'd probably never see a scar because it would be under her bikini top.


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## Byteofram (Oct 29, 2004)

Kat does have a scar and during the reunion show it is clearly visible but faint, although that was the first time I looked for it so not sure if it showed much during the season. Since she had the surgeries at a young age, the scar would have grown and probably "faded" some as she got older.

Glad Kim won...she played the social game well and won challenges when she needed to. 

Boring season though overall...hope the next one is better.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

I loved Kat's 12+12=22 speech


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I noticed Kat's scar during the reunion show after she had talked about it, and now that I know it's there, it's pretty visible during Alicia's Ponderosa videos. It's very faded and looks like it's pretty well disguised by being right in the fold of her cleavage on her left side. It looks like it's a few inches long in the Ponderosa videos.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

Did Jeff ever talk to the girl who broke her wrist? I think there were at least a couple of people that got skipped over completely.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

who was the guy in the audience that Jeff talked to after he talked to Blossom?


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

loubob57 said:


> Did Jeff ever talk to the girl who broke her wrist? I think there were at least a couple of people that got skipped over completely.


No, he skipped her and the one that got the fat lip (Nina I think?), and also the blond guy that was full of himself... sorta. He asked him that question about giving up immunity which happened after he left, then he never went back and asked him anything else. Probably because they wasted so much time on Colton.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I liked how they laid out the season but the people who played were boring (outside of Colton who was obnoxious). I like the more classic Survivor than all the stupid gimmicks they've had in the past. I like having a reward AND an elimination challenge.

Anyway, glad Kim won. She played the best game, the perfect balance of social and strategic and won challenges too. She might be one of the best all around players ever. I liked Kat's speech, and really, that's the attitude everyone should follow, and for many seasons that was what they did follow. Not sure where it changed, but the last few years the jury members wanted to be vindictive.

As for next season:



Spoiler



I read some where that Mike, the guy who fell face first in the fire is one of the contestants coming back and that Colton isn't one of them. But that all could be a red herring.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

jradosh said:


> Speaking of Troy... what _was_ the correct answer to his question of Kim? Since he didn't vote for her I assume "when I got rid of Jonas" wasn't the right answer.


I'm assuming he wanted the answer to be voting Jay out. Before jonas it was 6-6, and it was going to be 1 guy, then 1 girl. Then instead of sending a girl home, she convincened Troy to vote for Micheal but was still telling him they were together. It wasn't until Jay that he realized she lied to him. So I'm guessing he wanted to hear that it was then that she changed her mind and went with the girls, because he couldn't stand the thought that he had been completely played for the last 6 days and never realized.

That said, I think Kim did lie in the answer (though Troy wouldn't have known it when he voted). I'm fairly certain that even up until the day they voted out Jay, Kim was speaking to the camera saying she didn't know whether to go with the girls or with the Troy alliance.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Alicia is delusional. She thinks she would have won in a final 3 against Kim. Laughable. And she should really get some of those moles looked at.

Jay is the only person I can remember looking thinner at the reunion than the day he got voted off. 

I thought Kim was making a mistake by taking Chelsea to the final. I really thought the guys would vote for her. I was way off!

I doubt Colton is on the next season. That season has already finished filming, so that would mean last night on the live show Colton would have already been to the Philippines and back. His attitude seemed to be of someone wanting to play again, not someone who has played twice. And he was fat.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

tiams said:


> [Colton's] attitude seemed to be of someone wanting to play again, not someone who has played twice. And he was fat.


Maybe he played and was voted off first.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I thought Jeff said they were about to begin filming the next season?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I love Kim. Just wanted to say it.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Chelsea is hot. Just wanted to say that.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

markz said:


> Chelsea is hot. Just wanted to say that.


She was prettier on the beach though without all that makeup.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

stalemate said:


> I loved Kat's 12+12=22 speech


Yeah, I caught that!



laria said:


> She was prettier on the beach though without all that makeup.


Yes, at final tribal before leaving the beach, she was beautiful!


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> Maybe he played and was voted off first.


That could explain why he was fat. But I just didn't get the vibe from him that he had played a second time. His mother also gave me the feeling that he had yet to redeem himself.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

markz said:


> Chelsea is hot. Just wanted to say that.


At tribal council, where Jonas mentioned that all the guys agreed that Chelsea was the best-looking woman, did you see the reaction shot of Kim? Pretty funny...


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> At tribal council, where Jonas mentioned that all the guys agreed that Chelsea was the best-looking woman, did you see the reaction shot of Kim? Pretty funny...


I missed that. I take it she did not agree?


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Did Troyzan really compare himself to Richard Hatch? Didn't Richard win, Troy got played big time, he was just a pawn. He didn't realize that after watching the season.

And Alicia thinking she was a kingpin. lol.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> At tribal council, where Jonas mentioned that all the guys agreed that Chelsea was the best-looking woman, did you see the reaction shot of Kim? Pretty funny...


And Kim said something like 'Thanks a lot'.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

JFriday said:


> Did Troyzan really compare himself to Richard Hatch? Didn't Richard win, Troy got played big time, he was just a pawn. He didn't realize that after watching the season.


Well, he said that "people" on the street said that to him.

Whether or not he made these people up in his head, I dunno.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

JFriday said:


> Did Troyzan really compare himself to Richard Hatch? Didn't Richard win, Troy got played big time, he was just a pawn. He didn't realize that after watching the season.
> 
> And Alicia thinking she was a kingpin. lol.


he didn't compare himself, he mentioned that people on the street had made that comparison.

Alicia is delusional.

ETA Too Slow


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

In the Kim vs. Chelsea who is "hotter" I vote Kim. There's just something artificial about Chelsea (and yea, I know, there are two of them up front and center, but not just those). Kim just seemed the more genuine person and hot at well.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> In the Kim vs. Chelsea who is "hotter" I vote Kim. There's just something artificial about Chelsea (and yea, I know, there are two of them up front and center, but not just those). Kim just seemed the more genuine person and hot at well.


Different strokes for different folks....


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

One thing that was nice was that the 3 finalists actually looked nice when they switched over to live TV. None of them had overdone makeup and they just looked like cleaned-up versions of the people we watched all season. Sometimes the contestants overdo it with the makeup and look nothing like they did all season on TV.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> In the Kim vs. Chelsea who is "hotter" I vote Kim. There's just something artificial about Chelsea (and yea, I know, there are two of them up front and center, but not just those). Kim just seemed the more genuine person and hot at well.


I guess we can agree to disagree on this point. But in reality I thought they both looked bad at the reunion. I guess I just like the more natural look than the whole made up looks they had last night.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

Kim hotter than Chelsea? No way dude. Kim is way too skinny, and that 'stache really didn't do it for me!


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

laria said:


> Well, he said that "people" on the street said that to him.
> 
> Whether or not he made these people up in his head, I dunno.


I think the delusion was that people actually said that. What did he do to give anyone that impression.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Apparently Chelsea was quite the ***** to everyone there. Wonder why they never showed any of that to us?


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I wished Jeff would ask Kim and other dominating players like her (both physically and socially) what in their lives have prepared them for the game.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Chelsea has a cute face, but the fake boobage is a huge minus.

I am very happy that Kim won, she deserved it.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Apparently Chelsea was quite the ***** to everyone there. Wonder why they never showed any of that to us?


Because they wanted us rooting for her. Our watching group was sure that Chelsea was Kim's biggest competition, but in the end it was Sabrina.

As far as we knew, at 5 players left, Kim had to make the decision of 'honorable' (Sabrina and Chelsea) vs 'sure thing' (Christina and Alicia). In reality, it was all 'sure thing'... and that would have been more boring than it already was.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Regarding next season...



Spoiler



I'm rooting for Jonathan Penner to make a return. One of my favorites ever, and he got screwed in Fans vs Favorites.


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## wendiness1 (Jul 29, 2005)

Chelsea definately looked prettier without makeup, and you can't say that about a lot of people. Apparently she was *****y but I think we didn't see that because the editor knew when cutting it together that she was in the final three and in order to build suspense had to create the image that Kim was bringing with her two players who just might win votes. Remember the alternative was Christine and Alicia, neither of whom appeared to have that power. Thus, playing up Chelsea as a likeable opponent made Kim's move riskier. Cutting out any bad behavior on Chelsea's part just added to the suspense.

We'll never see Survivor in a cold climate. Women in parkas as not as sexy as women on the beach in bikinis.

Colton was not sorry, in my opinion. He was embarrassed, but even then only slightly so. Alicia was likewise not truly sorry. I wish she and Colton had been called on their making fun of Christine's eyes. As for Jeff's observation that Special Ed teachers are, by their nature, compassionate people - that's a misconception. I've known a few who are cruel and disturbed people.

I wish Jeff had spoken to everybody who had been involved. I felt badly that a few got dressed up for the occasion, traveled and had friends watching, only to be totally ignored.

I think Alicia's delusion that she was so powerful stems from her need to believe her removal from the inner circle had to do with her strength and not because Kim had betrayed her. She had to give her ousting some purpose.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

Dalton Ross: http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/survivor-one-world-finale-recap-kim-spradlin/

Jeff Probst: http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/14/survivor-one-world-jeff-probst-finale-kim/

Kim: http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/14/survivor-one-world-winner-kim-spradlin/


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

heySkippy said:


> Chelsea has a cute face, but the fake boobage is a huge minus.
> 
> I am very happy that Kim won, she deserved it.


I would agree with both points. When I said Chelsea was hot at final tribal, I was referring to her face. I find fake boobs to be a turn-off in general.

I did like Kim's personality and think that can add a lot to someone's attractiveness. And she played a heck of a game! She deserved to win definitely.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

stalemate said:


> I loved Kat's 12+12=22 speech


She turns 23 next month and 24 next year, she said she had to have surgery next year.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Troyzan is clearly delusional. At Ponderosa he said he was an inch away from winning it all. He also said Kim is real smart, she's the female version of Troyzan.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

goMO said:


> Kim hotter than Chelsea? No way dude. Kim is way too skinny, and that 'stache really didn't do it for me!


Well, if you like Chelsea and her fakums, then enjoy, me, I'd prefer skinny and natural than fake. But that's just me. I really dislike fake ones.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

wendiness1 said:


> Chelsea definately looked prettier without makeup, and you can't say that about a lot of people.


Seems like people say it season after season about the _Survivor_ finalists...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I thought Jeff said they were about to begin filming the next season?


No, it's finished. There's an article at EW.com that explicitly says they're finished and also gives some info on the game's structure/changes.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I still can't believe that Christina and Alicia were so dumb to allow Tarzan to be voted out. That was either of them's only chance and winning. Christina sounded like she gave up on day 7 and was just happy to be there.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

wendiness1 said:


> I wish Jeff had spoken to everybody who had been involved. I felt badly that a few got dressed up for the occasion, traveled and had friends watching, only to be totally ignored.


I'd be happy to get dressed up and be totally ignored for $10k. I wouldn't feel too bad for them.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

I don't feel bad for them, but the finale should really be a LOT longer. Maybe only an hour on TV, but then an extra hour or so available online only. 

(yeah, that gets said every year too)


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

BradJW said:


> I don't feel bad for them, but the finale should really be a LOT longer. Maybe only an hour on TV, but then an extra hour or so available online only.
> 
> (yeah, that gets said every year too)


agreed, but I don't usually care about anybody that didn't make the jury. I'd be fine with leaving those people at home.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

BradJW said:


> I don't feel bad for them, but the finale should really be a LOT longer. Maybe only an hour on TV, but then an extra hour or so available online only.
> 
> (yeah, that gets said every year too)


I don't really care what the 1st, 2nd... person that got voted out has to say about the season.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

JFriday said:


> I don't really care what the 1st, 2nd... person that got voted out has to say about the season.


Usually I don't, but I would have liked to hear how the girl with the busted wrist was doing.  I had read it was really seriously broken in several places.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Personally, I'd like to hear from everybody, just a little bit.

For this season, I would've done a 3-hour reunion show. First hour, leave as is. 2nd hour, give everyone 1-2 minutes in the first half hour, and devote the last half hour to the more important players.

The 3rd hour would be The Kat Show.

If there was time for a 4th hour, The Kat & Chelsea Show.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

jradosh said:


> I was really surprised by her demeanor... pleasantly surprised. But I'm curious... if she had open heart surgery why didn't we see any scars? There were plenty of bikini shots of Kat.


I noticed it the episode after she mentioned it during the middle of the season. Have no idea what ep. that was...



laria said:


> She was prettier on the beach though without all that makeup.


I think that about all most Survivor women. But I'm probably biased as my wife almost never wears makeup. I guess I prefer the natural look!


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I really wonder what Chelsea was like, unedited. No votes at all?  She really must have had some kind of attitude.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I really wonder what Chelsea was like, unedited. No votes at all?  She really must have had some kind of attitude.


Well Kim deserved the 7 votes (she actually deserved 9), so it's not surprising that one of the 3 didn't get any votes. Troyzan was such a good player shouldn't it have been a no brainer to vote for the best player in the finals? He would have wanted that if he was there.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

martinp13 said:


> Because they wanted us rooting for her. Our watching group was sure that Chelsea was Kim's biggest competition, but in the end it was Sabrina.


At tribal, even Kim said she thought Chelsea was her biggest competition. Yes, it turned out to be Sabrina, but consider who voted for her.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

InterMurph said:


> He was a cross between Vernon Reid (from Living Colour) and high-80s Prince...


I thought he was channeling Prince all the way until I realized Prince is still alive.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

BradJW said:


> The 3rd hour would be The Kat Show.


Kat's little dance was kind of awesome.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I really liked that Kat voted for Kim by saying something like "I'm really mad at you but if I don't vote for you then it will prove I didn't learn anything".


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

BradJW said:


> Personally, I'd like to hear from everybody, just a little bit.


That's the way it was for the first several seasons. They'd make a point to talk to everyone, even if some only got in a sentence or two. However, that meant that Jeff couldn't spend the necessary time on the more important issues. So if it has to be one way or the other, I prefer the current way.

Sure, I'd love if they'd film another hour and put it online, but I doubt they're going to start doing that anytime soon.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Loved that scene where Kim said she was going to get up at final Tribal and say, "I deserve to win because I have no boobs left" or something like that.


----------



## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

JFriday said:


> Troyzan was such a good player shouldn't it have been a no brainer to vote for the best player in the finals?


Respectfully, I disagree. Troyzan was not a good player.

He was:

Tricked into voting out a key ally
Unable to recover from the resulting minority position, despite there being 11 players in the game
A hot-head who alienated just about everybody with his hyper-aggressive antics


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Early in the season I kept saying to my wife that Chelsea really bothered me, and that I didn't like her at all, but I couldn't put my finger on why. Something about her facial expressions just seemed rude or something I'm not sure.

As the season went on, I saw it less and less, but I'm not surprised at all that people didn't like her.

I am so glad Kim won. I was rooting for her for a long time and I think she truly dominated the game. I don't think it was dumb to take Chelsea and Sabrina to the end. I was actually nervous she would mess up and take Alicia or Christina (or both). To me, if she took Chelsea and Sabrina she could sell it as this was the alliance from the beginning and she was the mastermind and it was more a game of honor but she was just the one making the hard decisions. I think if she voted out Sabrina and Chelsea she would not have been as likeable to the jury.


----------



## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

DancnDude said:


> I really liked that Kat voted for Kim by saying something like "I'm really mad at you but if I don't vote for you then it will prove I didn't learn anything".


I so wasn't expecting that from her. It was a pleasant surprise.


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

loubob57 said:


> I so wasn't expecting that from her. It was a pleasant surprise.


I agree.


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

JFriday said:


> She turns 23 next month and 24 next year, she said she had to have surgery next year.


That makes more sense. It came off as "Well, I had surgery when I was twelve and I have to have it again in 12 years so... TWENTY TWO!!!!"

I didn't really follow what heart surgery had to do with having kids. What's the deal there?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Chelsea: I didn't try to connect with you guys. Kim did. Kim also ran the show. Vote for me!

Sabrina: I'm a mean person, so I tried to not show you that. I also lost challenges on purpose so you would not think I'm a threat. In order to not be a threat, I did what Kim told me. Vote for me!

Amazing. Simply amazing.


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

InterMurph said:


> Respectfully, I disagree. Troyzan was not a good player.
> 
> He was:
> 
> ...


Well I was being sarcastic, if you read my previous post about Troyzan being delusional you would have gotten it.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> Loved that scene where Kim said she was going to get up at final Tribal and say, "I deserve to win because I have no boobs left" or something like that.


I love that quote. Kim has a great personality. She played the social game and the physical game better than anyone else there, and she deserved to win. So glad the jury (and especially Kat) recognized that, well, except for Troy and Leif. Not sure why Leif voted for Sabrina? Troy is just a sore loser.

And about the rude comments made here all season long about Kim have a mustache...I think you people who make nasty comments need to grow up. Some things are just out of a person's control and for some women, having a mustache is one of those things. I'm sure Kim is already self conscious about it, as many women are, and making fun of a woman because of it uncalled for and mean.


----------



## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)

I'm glad this season is over. So many bad players making stupid moves. All the men should have been kicked off the moment they decided to go to tribal b/c Colton wanted it. The guys waiting until they were outnumbered 2-1 to decide maybe they should try to vote out some women. Who was that Leif guy at the final tribal? Don't remember seeing him on the show. Delusional Alicia thinking she was the most powerful person and then votes out one of her only 2 pawns. Cristina sleeping through the whole season. No serious effort to oust Kim. Ugh.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I was surprised at the final tribal (at the island, not the studio) and even before that, how WHITE everyone's teeth were. After 39 days in the boonies, I guess I thought it might be different. Just surprised me.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> ...Not sure why Leif voted for Sabrina?...


Leif's vote was always out there so why should it be any different at the end


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

pmyers said:


> Leif's vote was always out there so why should it be any different at the end


Very true.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

stalemate said:


> I didn't really follow what heart surgery had to do with having kids. What's the deal there?


As I mentioned earlier, I have an artificial valve, and I'm assuming Kat has the same issue, so I'm kind of an authority on the topic.

When you are a kid, your heart is much smaller. When you need a valve replacement, they have to put a valve that fits the size of your heart. So kids tend to get fitted with smaller valve. As you grow up, your heart and body grows but the valve doesn't. The problem with this is that the valve restricts the flow of blood. For this reason, you would typically need to have a second surgery when you are an adult. Also, if you got a tissue valve replacement (ex: pigs valve), those don't last nearly as long as a mechanical valve. When I had my surgery, I was told at the time that typical replacement period for a tissue valve was 7 to 10 years. It may be a bit longer now, so 12 years is probably in the right range.

So these would both be reasons to replace the valve. But the small size is probably the more important factor for pregnancy. When a valve is too small and restricts blood flow, you get tired more easily, and your body can't be supplied with oxygen as well. I imagine this would be a huge no-no for someone pregnant. As you gain more weight, your body is going to tire more and need more oxygen. Then you need to supply oxygen to the fetus. Having a fetus starved for oxygen is just asking for problems.

In my case, I lucked out. As a kid, my valve wasn't sealing properly, which cause blood to leak backwards between beats, which made my heart work harder. As a result, that chamber of the heart was drastically enlarged. Lucky enough, it was enlarged enough that I was able to be fitted with a valve that is just 1mm shy of a typical adult valve, so it's close enough that I can get by with it as an adult. I was told it would last about 15 years. It's been 27 and they still say they see no need to replace it any time soon, as these valves have been lasting much longer than originally anticipated.


----------



## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> It's been 27 and they still say they see no need to replace it any time soon, as these valves have been lasting much longer than originally anticipated.


Awesome!


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

pmyers said:


> Leif's vote was always out there so why should it be any different at the end


It was a big advantage to the girls that Lief and Tarzan were totally unreliable. Getting the guys together on anything was like herding cats. On the girls side you have Christina who followed the leader like a zombie. Kim played a great game, but she did have it easier than some seasons.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I got a strange sense of satisfaction watching those clips of Colton and Alicia berating Christina and telling her she was going to be out of the game within two days, and she should just jump in the fire, and knowing that Christina lasted longer in the game than either of them.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I got a strange sense of satisfaction watching those clips of Colton and Alicia berating Christina and telling her she was going to be out of the game within two days, and she should just jump in the fire, and knowing that Christina lasted longer in the game than either of them.


I agree and I loved how Christina just kept trucking....but then at some point she just gave up. I was very dissapointed in her game.


----------



## ThePhoenix (Feb 13, 2008)

Anubys said:


> Chelsea: I didn't try to connect with you guys. Kim did. Kim also ran the show. Vote for me!
> 
> Sabrina: I'm a mean person, so I tried to not show you that. I also lost challenges on purpose so you would not think I'm a threat. In order to not be a threat, I did what Kim told me. Vote for me!
> 
> Amazing. Simply amazing.


Perfect summary of final tribal!


----------



## ThePhoenix (Feb 13, 2008)

I considered Chelsea to be "Kim Lite". They were an alliance from the start, but Kim did all the work. Players who were inclined at all to vote for Kim or Chelsea were going to vote Kim. I think that's why Sabrina got two votes, - she represented something different - and why Chelsea got no votes.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

ThePhoenix said:


> I considered Chelsea to be "Kim Lite". They were an alliance from the start, but Kim did all the work. Players who were inclined at all to vote for Kim or Chelsea were going to vote Kim. I think that's why Sabrina got two votes, - she represented something different - and why Chelsea got no votes.


Correct.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

There's not much more to say. The person most deserving won. The others pretty much assured that at the final Tribal. If Christine had ANY shot of making the final 3, she blew it with her final speech. She basically said "Kim, you are a horrible person unless you stick with the alliance you have had since the beginning". I find it had to believe she is really in Sales. 

I can tell you one thing though.I don't see either sex letting the other get a majority again if they can help it. I can't believe it happened the way it happened THIS time. That's just standard Survivor 101. This latest group were obviously not students of the game... About the ONLY thing they did right was stick together. Which NEVER happens. The only reason it happened this time is because Kim had such weak competition.


----------



## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

bareyb said:


> If Christine had ANY shot of making the final 3, she blew it with her final speech. She basically said "Kim, you are a horrible person unless you stick with the alliance you have had since the beginning". I find it had to believe she is really in Sales.


She's not. She's a "career consultant."


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Where is the final episode online? I had to reboot my DVR and missed about 10 minutes. Looking online at cbs.com, I can get last weeks episode, and I can get the reunion show, but not the finale


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

KyleLC said:


> She's not. She's a "career consultant."


On the reunion show she said she's in sales.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

LordKronos said:


> I can get last weeks episode, and I can get the reunion show, but not the finale


It shows up for me: Final Episode


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Just watched the reunion show....no doubt we saw the real Colton and Jeff is exactly right: there are villains you love to hate and then are just people you hate and never want to hear about again...Colton is the latter


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> It shows up for me: Final Episode


Sorry, but I'm not sure where you are seeing it. I follow your link for episode 14, and it takes me to episode 15, which is the live reunion show. In the list of full episodes, it has the reunion, wednesdays episode, and the prior episodes, but no finale.

I trued turning off adblock, and I tried both firefox and IE. Can't get to it.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Hmmm...maybe I had it in my cache. Now I'm not seeing it either, but it was there earlier today...


----------



## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

stalemate said:


> I loved Kat's 12+12=22 speech


I don't remember her exact wording, but I thouhgt she was saying that she had the surgery when she was 12 and then was going to have it again 12 years later...so when she said, "guess what, I'm now 22" (or whatever she said), her point was her 12 years was almost up. I didn't think she was implying that she's having the surgery this year.


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> Sorry, but I'm not sure where you are seeing it. I follow your link for episode 14, and it takes me to episode 15, which is the live reunion show. In the list of full episodes, it has the reunion, wednesdays episode, and the prior episodes, but no finale.
> 
> I trued turning off adblock, and I tried both firefox and IE. Can't get to it.


It seems to be back now. It's the 5/13 episode that's about 1hr 32min long.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

stalemate said:


> Early in the season I kept saying to my wife that Chelsea really bothered me, and that I didn't like her at all, but I couldn't put my finger on why. Something about her facial expressions just seemed rude or something I'm not sure.
> 
> As the season went on, I saw it less and less, but I'm not surprised at all that people didn't like her.
> 
> I am so glad Kim won. I was rooting for her for a long time and I think she truly dominated the game. I don't think it was dumb to take Chelsea and Sabrina to the end. I was actually nervous she would mess up and take Alicia or Christina (or both). To me, if she took Chelsea and Sabrina she could sell it as this was the alliance from the beginning and she was the mastermind and it was more a game of honor but she was just the one making the hard decisions. I think if she voted out Sabrina and Chelsea she would not have been as likeable to the jury.


I think if she took Alicia and Christina, she risked the jury turning on her for taking the "easy way out". That would have been especially true with Chelsea and Sabrina, who could have turned Kat and with those three, plus Troyzan and Leif, Kim loses.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

DancnDude said:


> One thing that was nice was that the 3 finalists actually looked nice when they switched over to live TV. None of them had overdone makeup and they just looked like cleaned-up versions of the people we watched all season. Sometimes the contestants overdo it with the makeup and look nothing like they did all season on TV.


I thought all three looked so different I wouldn't have known who they were. Sabrina especially. And Kim looked even more mannish to me, somehow.

I'm glad for once the jury wasn't full of bitter sourpusses...and I would have been okay with any of the three winning. But it was still a boring-ass season.


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> I think if she took Alicia and Christina, she risked the jury turning on her for taking the "easy way out". That would have been especially true with Chelsea and Sabrina, who could have turned Kat and with those three, plus Troyzan and Leif, Kim loses.


yep, exactly


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Just finished the reunion show. A real tribute to how boring the season was at the end is that Jeff hardly spent any time talking to the final 5!

And if I had to choose, the hottest body of them all belongs to Christina.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Anubys said:


> And if I had to choose, the hottest body of them all belongs to Christina.


It's kind of hard to ignore that she doesn't have anything above the neck...like a brain...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> It's kind of hard to ignore that she doesn't have anything above the neck...like a brain...


No argument there!


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Just finished the reunion show. A real tribute to how boring the season was at the end is that Jeff hardly spent any time talking to the final 5!
> 
> *And if I had to choose, the hottest body of them all belongs to Christina.*


Yeah. Have to agree. Especially her upper half (below the neck).


----------



## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's the way it was for the first several seasons. They'd make a point to talk to everyone, even if some only got in a sentence or two. *However, that meant that Jeff couldn't spend the necessary time on the more important issues.* So if it has to be one way or the other, I prefer the current way.


I know I could have done without the 10 minutes he devoted to Colton (and Colton's mom).


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Boston Fan said:


> I know I could have done without the 10 minutes he devoted to Colton (and Colton's mom).


I agree he spent a little too long on Colton, but realistically, that was the big story of the season. Jeff had to at least address Colton's comments and whether he now regretted saying them.

The thing I was shocked about was that Colton, who has known for at least two months that he was going to come to the reunion show with tons of negative behavior to answer for, didn't have a better speech/explanation/apology prepared. Didn't anyone sit down with him beforehand and say, "What are you going to say when Jeff asks you about your behavior?" I would think he would have been thinking of nothing else for the last several weeks.


----------



## Doggie Bear (Jan 16, 2008)

DevdogAZ said:


> The thing I was shocked about was that Colton, who has known for at least two months that he was going to come to the reunion show with tons of negative behavior to answer for, didn't have a better speech/explanation/apology prepared. Didn't anyone sit down with him beforehand and say, "What are you going to say when Jeff asks you about your behavior?" I would think he would have been thinking of nothing else for the last several weeks.


How can you defend the indefensible? Colton could have had two years to prepare, and it wouldn't have withstood Bill's accurate observation that what you say one on one to the camera with no contestant around, pretty much reflects what you really believe.


----------



## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

Doggie Bear said:


> How can you defend the indefensible? Colton could have had two years to prepare, and it wouldn't have withstood Bill's accurate observation that what you say one on one to the camera with no contestant around, pretty much reflects what you really believe.


I honestly think he had not anticipated being asked this very simple, yet insightful question.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Doggie Bear said:


> How can you defend the indefensible? Colton could have had two years to prepare, and it wouldn't have withstood Bill's accurate observation that what you say one on one to the camera with no contestant around, pretty much reflects what you really believe.


He should have been prepared with an apology, saying that he was extremely embarrassed by what he said, that he had no excuse or defense, that he had learned from his mistake, and that he was truly sorry and hoped those he offended would forgive him. It would have been very simple. Instead, he stammered along and looked like an even bigger buffoon.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> He should have been prepared with an apology, saying that he was extremely embarrassed by what he said, that he had no excuse or defense, that he had learned from his mistake, and that he was truly sorry and hoped those he offended would forgive him. It would have been very simple. Instead, he stammered along and looked like an even bigger buffoon.


Yeah, I was a little relieved I didn't have to sit though the usual fake apology/redemption act these people usually do (when they get caught). He's an arrogant jerk who has no one in his life to answer to. I hope this kid never loses his trust fund because I don't think he'd do well in the work world.


----------



## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

bryhamm said:


> and who knew that Kat had the most mature speech in her.


This was the best moment in an otherwise boring season. I could not have predicted before watching her speech that there was anything she could have said that would have turned me into a Kat fan. I am now a big Kat fan.

As much as I hated to watch the men self-destruct, they deserved to lose. I can't remember a single time when throwing a challenge to get rid of someone ever turned out well. The men volunteering to go to Tribal Council was this season's equivalent. Stupid.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> The thing I was shocked about was that Colton, who has known for at least two months that he was going to come to the reunion show with tons of negative behavior to answer for, didn't have a better speech/explanation/apology prepared. Didn't anyone sit down with him beforehand and say, "What are you going to say when Jeff asks you about your behavior?" I would think he would have been thinking of nothing else for the last several weeks.


Jeff mentioned in his Q&A that he, himself, spoke to Colton for a bit beforehand and came away with the impression that Colton was going to be a more prepared/candid than he actually ended up being. His thoughts were that the live show is often intimidating andmaybe caused Colton to forget or shy away from what he originally implied he was going to say.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> The thing I was shocked about was that Colton, who has known for at least two months that he was going to come to the reunion show with tons of negative behavior to answer for, didn't have a better speech/explanation/apology prepared. Didn't anyone sit down with him beforehand and say, "What are you going to say when Jeff asks you about your behavior?" I would think he would have been thinking of nothing else for the last several weeks.


My impression was that he _had_ rehearsed an answer but got too nervous and didn't follow his prepared script. His mother later said as much ("that wasn't what you were supposed to say up there"... or something like that).

And I agree... too much Colton time was given by Jeff, and if they bring him back I'll write a nasty letter to CBS.


----------



## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Anubys said:


> And if I had to choose, the hottest body of them all belongs to Christina.


I thought that she was the most attractive woman on the show, and even looked great naturally during the game without hair and makeup primping. Unfortunately, she played such a weak game...


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

sbourgeo said:


> I thought that she was the most attractive woman on the show, and even looked great naturally during the game without hair and makeup primping. Unfortunately, she played such a weak game...


she grew on me as the show progressed and I don't think she is as dumb as they portrayed her. Her game may not have been the worst ever played but it's in the group picture.


----------



## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> And about the rude comments made here all season long about Kim have a mustache...I think you people who make nasty comments need to grow up. Some things are just out of a person's control and for some women, having a mustache is one of those things. I'm sure Kim is already self conscious about it, as many women are, and making fun of a woman because of it uncalled for and mean.


+1

What's even funnier is that some of the same people making comments about Kim's mustache are some of the same people criticizing Chelsea for having implants. So they want women to alter something that THEY find unattractive (a mustache), but somehow find a woman altering another body part a reason to criticize her. Doesn't make much sense.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

David Platt said:


> +1
> 
> What's even funnier is that some of the same people making comments about Kim's mustache are some of the same people criticizing Chelsea for having implants. So they want women to alter something that THEY find unattractive (a mustache), but somehow find a woman altering another body part a reason to criticize her. Doesn't make much sense.


I don't know who said what, but for the record:

Didn't comment on mustache. I realize people are not going to be at their best appearance when on an island for 39 days.

Did say I don't like implants


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I don't make fun of people for cosmetic things they can't control. That's a 100% jerk play IMO.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

David Platt said:


> +1
> 
> What's even funnier is that some of the same people making comments about Kim's mustache are some of the same people criticizing Chelsea for having implants. So they want women to alter something that THEY find unattractive (a mustache), but somehow find a woman altering another body part a reason to criticize her. Doesn't make much sense.


Even my wife was put off a little by Kim. Like me, she really liked her game and intellect. OTOH, you have the Adam's apple, the mannish muscles, and the 'stash...We've seen women on the show pluck their hair before; and Kim went to awards where she had access to a shower (mirror) and razors.

I think Kim is very attractive. I love tall women with long hair (although I don't like women to be so skinny). But I do give an allowance to men who prefer that a woman NOT have a mustache!


----------



## Boot (Mar 15, 2000)

Roadblock said:


> The reason for final 3 is to avoid a final tribal council with one player taking a goat, resulting in a blowout vote with no suspense (such as if it were Kim vs Christina). It's harder to get two goats to the end, although still possible (Boston Rob).


And the probability of the final two being uneven gets a lot larger with the oddness of that final vote from 3 down to 2. One person gets immunity, which means the other two players can only vote against each other. So the immune player gets to freely choose who to sit next to in the end, and of course they're going to take the weaker of the two.

Edit: and actually it's even worse than that. If there's an obviously strong, deserving player in the last 3, and they don't win the final immunity, they're out, guaranteed. Doesn't make for great TV.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Boot said:


> And the probability of the final two being uneven gets a lot larger with the oddness of that final vote from 3 down to 2. One person gets immunity, which means the other two players can only vote against each other. So the immune player gets to freely choose who to sit next to in the end, and of course they're going to take the weaker of the two.
> 
> Edit: and actually it's even worse than that. If there's an obviously strong, deserving player in the last 3, and they don't win the final immunity, they're out, guaranteed. Doesn't make for great TV.


So it begs the question (and I'm too lazy to look it up), when they were doing 2 in the finals, did the person who won the last challenge and got to pick who they wanted to sit next to always win? IRC, in Survivor 1 didn't the girl (I forget her first name...last name Wigglesworth) win the last few challenges and take Richard Hatch, yet he won?


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I don't remember the details, but I believe it was the consensus that Colby Donaldson taking Tina Wesson (I think her name was) was his undoing.


----------



## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

You are right about Season 1...It was Kelly Wiglesworth who decided to take Hatch with her to the Final 2. In Season 2, Colby picked Tina to go with him to the Final 2, even though he knew that he would have beat Keith, and she ended up winning.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> So it begs the question (and I'm too lazy to look it up), when they were doing 2 in the finals, did the person who won the last challenge and got to pick who they wanted to sit next to always win? IRC, in Survivor 1 didn't the girl (I forget her first name...last name Wigglesworth) win the last few challenges and take Richard Hatch, yet he won?


IIRC, Richard bowed out of the final challenge just after it started, because he knew that whether Kelly or Rudy won, they'd take him to the finals.

S2: Australian Outback: Colby won and took Tina, despite knowing that he would have a much better shot at beating Keith. Tina won.

S3: Africa: Kim J. won the final immunity, took Ethan. Ethan won.

S4: Marquesas: Neleh won the final immunity, took Vecepia. Vecepia won.

S7: Pearl Islands: Lillian won the final immunity, took Sandra. Sandra won.

S8: All-Stars: Rob Mariano won the final immunity, took Amber. Amber won.

S12: Exile Island: Danielle won the final immunity, took Aras. Aras won.

S16: Fans vs. Favorites: Amanda won the final immunity, took Parvati. Parvati won.

So of the 14 seasons that ended with a final 2, the winner of the final immunity lost 8 of those 14 times.

(Thanks to Wikipedia for the info. For those who don't know, they have great pages detailing each of the seasons of Survivor.)


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> IIRC, Richard bowed out of the final challenge just after it started, because he knew that whether Kelly or Rudy won, they'd take him to the finals.
> 
> S2: Australian Outback: Colby won and took Tina, despite knowing that he would have a much better shot at beating Keith. Tina won.
> 
> ...


Based on this, that kills the theory that the person can "choose" who to go against so they can guarantee they win the game. That just didn't happen, now did it. So it begs the other question...why do we need a final 3!!! Two worked fine.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

Bring back the car reward challenge. That winner never won.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Based on this, that kills the theory that the person can "choose" who to go against so they can guarantee they win the game. That just didn't happen, now did it. So it begs the other question...why do we need a final 3!!! Two worked fine.


I don't think the issue was that the winner of the final immunity was a shoe in to win the season. I think the issue was that with just two people in the finals, the outcome was rarely in question. So by adding a third person, they threw in an extra bit of uncertainty.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

mcb08 said:


> You are right about Season 1...It was Kelly Wiglesworth who decided to take Hatch with her to the Final 2.


I think Richard threw that challenge, banking on Kelly outlasting Rudy and not wanting to take Rudy to the end because he would win. Richard figured out that was his best way to get rid of Rudy because if he won and didn't take Rudy, he would lose Rudy's vote and maybe other votes.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> So of the 14 seasons that ended with a final 2, the winner of the final immunity lost 8 of those 14 times.


Fantastic info. I mis-remembered it as being the opposite. So they should bring back the final 2.



DevdogAZ said:


> IIRC, Richard bowed out of the final challenge just after it started, because he knew that whether Kelly or Rudy won, they'd take him to the finals.


Another brilliant move by the man who started it all. Stepping down and telling them he knows they have to take him was jaw-dropping at the time. And it worked.

Then he went all crazy and rubbed naked against Susan Hawk during all-stars.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Anubys said:


> Even my wife was put off a little by Kim. Like me, she really liked her game and intellect. OTOH, you have the Adam's apple, the mannish muscles, and the 'stash...We've seen women on the show pluck their hair before; and Kim went to awards where she had access to a shower (mirror) and razors.
> 
> I think Kim is very attractive. I love tall women with long hair (although I don't like women to be so skinny). But I do give an allowance to men who prefer that a woman NOT have a mustache!


I have no problem with anyone thinking a female mustache is unattractive. I do have a problem with people making fun of it or anything else about a person's natural appearance. If you (not you specifically Anubys) don't like it, fine, but keep the nasty comments to yourself.

I don't agree that Kim could do something about it while on the island. If she had shaved it, it would have just grown back. Many women don't shave because it's a very short term fix that makes it worse in the long run.


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

InterMurph said:


> Respectfully, I disagree. Troyzan was not a good player.
> 
> He was:
> 
> ...



He was part of the group of morons who gave up immunity to vote one of their own members out the game.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> IIRC, Richard bowed out of the final challenge just after it started, because he knew that whether Kelly or Rudy won, they'd take him to the finals.


Both Kelly and Rich were sure that Rudy was a sure thing in the jury. Kelly's only chance was against Rich. And she only lost by one vote (and that vote was Greg, who made them pick a number). Kelly could have easily won.



> S2: Australian Outback: Colby won and took Tina, despite knowing that he would have a much better shot at beating Keith. Tina won.


IIRC, Colby has stated that he thought he would lose to either Keith or Tina, so he picked Tina to make sure she got the $1M. (He probably would have won against Keith.)



> S3: Africa: Kim J. won the final immunity, took Ethan. Ethan won.
> 
> S4: Marquesas: Neleh won the final immunity, took Vecepia. Vecepia won.


By far the worst travesty of a vengeful jury in any season (worse than any Russell lose.) Neleh lost because the Rotu4 refused to admit they got beat by Neleh. She, by far, deserved to win this season.



> S7: Pearl Islands: Lillian won the final immunity, took Sandra. Sandra won.


Lillian never had a chance. The jury refused to vote for a player that was allowed back in the game (rightly or wrongly).



> S8: All-Stars: Rob Mariano won the final immunity, took Amber. Amber won.


Rob's choice was emotional, not strategic. You could even argue, he figured that a win for Amber was just as good.



> S12: Exile Island: Danielle won the final immunity, took Aras. Aras won.
> 
> S16: Fans vs. Favorites: Amanda won the final immunity, took Parvati. Parvati won.
> 
> ...


So, in many of these cases, the Final Immunity winner wasn't going to win either way or (in Colby's and Rob's case) picked a person to win in they weren't going to.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I have no problem with anyone thinking a female mustache is unattractive. I do have a problem with people making fun of it or anything else about a person's natural appearance. If you (not you specifically Anubys) don't like it, fine, but keep the nasty comments to yourself.
> 
> I don't agree that Kim could do something about it while on the island. If she had shaved it, it would have just grown back. Many women don't shave because it's a very short term fix that makes it worse in the long run.


Who are you to tell people what comments to make and not make?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

JFriday said:


> Who are you to tell people what comments to make and not make?


IMO she's right on the money.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> Both Kelly and Rich were sure that Rudy was a sure thing in the jury. Kelly's only chance was against Rich. And she only lost by one vote (and that vote was Greg, who made them pick a number). Kelly could have easily won.


I didn't say Rich knew he'd win. I just said that he knew either of them would choose to take him to the finals.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I didn't say Rich knew he'd win. I just said that he knew either of them would choose to take him to the finals.


I also think he knew he would not win the challenge


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

The way I heard S2 described:

Colby hated Kieth so much that it was worth $900,000 to Colby to make sure that Kieth didn't get $100,000.

(First place got $1M, 2nd place got $100K)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

loubob57 said:


> The way I heard S2 described:
> 
> Colby hated Kieth so much that it was worth $900,000 to Colby to make sure that Kieth didn't get $100,000.
> 
> (First place got $1M, 2nd place got $100K)


I don't think I believe that one, because if the payout schedules posted in various places on the net are to be believed, the difference in payout between 2nd and 3rd isn't that big (only $10-15k). Definitely not enough to warrant giving up a shot at $900k just to spite someone.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Then again, Colby slept with his mom in the back of the Aztec, so I don't think he made the smartest decisions at the time.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

The payout schedules have changed a few times. I'm not sure if 3rd place got anything in the beginning. But it was more of a joke anyway.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Donbadabon said:


> Then again, Colby slept with his mom in the back of the Aztec, so I don't think he made the smartest decisions at the time.


Colby played the "white hat" role and took the person who "deserved" to make it to the final 2. He thought this would make him look good and they would give him the money.

he also had an mommy-crush on Tina.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

If I remember correctly, Colby and Tina had an alliance from day 1. They had always told each other they would take the other to the final 2. Colby was just keeping his word.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

nyny523 said:


> If I remember correctly, Colby and Tina had an alliance from day 1. They had always told each other they would take the other to the final 2. Colby was just keeping his word.


This.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Anubys said:


> Colby played the "white hat" role and took the person who "deserved" to make it to the final 2. He thought this would make him look good and they would give him the money.
> 
> he also had an mommy-crush on Tina.


which is interesting because now it seems the jury hates you if you take the weak players and bounce the people who "deserved" to go.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> He should have been prepared with an apology, saying that he was extremely embarrassed by what he said, that he had no excuse or defense, that he had learned from his mistake, and that he was truly sorry and hoped those he offended would forgive him. It would have been very simple. Instead, he stammered along and looked like an even bigger buffoon.


Why would he bother doing any of that when he can just rely on his Mom to bail him out...which is how he's probably gotten through life so far.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

loubob57 said:


> The payout schedules have changed a few times. I'm not sure if 3rd place got anything in the beginning. But it was more of a joke anyway.


Actually, the only payout schedules I've ever seen were way back after the first couple of seasons. If they've changed, I wasn't aware.

From my memory back then, third place got $85k.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

JFriday said:


> Who are you to tell people what comments to make and not make?


I'm a member of this forum who doesn't want to read those kinds of comments in a TV show thread. If someone wants to make comments like that then they can start a thread that I can ignore. I can't ignore it in a TV show thread.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Based on this, that kills the theory that the person can "choose" who to go against so they can guarantee they win the game. That just didn't happen, now did it. So it begs the other question...why do we need a final 3!!! Two worked fine.


But you're assuming the strongest player won the final immunity. If the worst player somehow wins the final immunity, it doesn't matter who they take: they lose. If the best player wins final immunity, they'll probably win. Depends on who they take, jury bitterness, eloquence, etc.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

loubob57 said:


> The payout schedules have changed a few times. I'm not sure if 3rd place got anything in the beginning. But it was more of a joke anyway.


I'm pretty sure everybody (well, everybody who didn't quit) got something, even in season 1 - I want to say last place paid either $2500 or $3500. There was a time when first, second, and last place money were the only numbers that anyone would make "official," and I wouldn't be surprised if the producers "reminded" contestants of the "five million dollar clause" in their contracts before public appearances; in any number of Survivor season reunions (e.g. on Larry King Live), nobody mentioned any prize money other than the top two.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

That Don Guy said:


> I'm pretty sure everybody (well, everybody who didn't quit) got something, even in season 1 - I want to say last place paid either $2500 or $3500. There was a time when first, second, and last place money were the only numbers that anyone would make "official," and I wouldn't be surprised if the producers "reminded" contestants of the "five million dollar clause" in their contracts before public appearances; in any number of Survivor season reunions (e.g. on Larry King Live), nobody mentioned any prize money other than the top two.


I believe everyone gets paid something. Like on Big Brother, everybody gets paid by the week. So as long as they are on the show they are earning. Maybe someone can answer this question: Do they get SAG cards?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

martinp13 said:


> But you're assuming the strongest player won the final immunity. If the worst player somehow wins the final immunity, it doesn't matter who they take: they lose. If the best player wins final immunity, they'll probably win. Depends on who they take, jury bitterness, eloquence, etc.


It was my assumption that they went to 3 to avoid the person winning the final immunity picking the person they knew they could beat. Perhaps that's not why they did. Still, even though they've gone to three, from my recollection, there's been one dominant vote getter almost ever year. I'm sure there has, but I don't remember there being many who won by one or two votes. And I think it's been rare that the third player even GETS votes.

But, if they are going to continue doing it this way, I want to see a three way tie at 3 votes each and see what happens. It would be interesting in that they'd have to settle it at the reunion show MONTHS after the actual competition has completed.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> But, if they are going to continue doing it this way, I want to see a three way tie at 3 votes each and see what happens. It would be interesting in that they'd have to settle it at the reunion show MONTHS after the actual competition has completed.


I've wondered about that, too, but I'm certain the producers are aware of the votes when they are cast, or look at them before Jeff gets them. I'm guessing if there really were a three-way tie, it would get taken care of right there at the final tribal and not left for months to be determined at the live finale.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> I've wondered about that, too, but I'm certain the producers are aware of the votes when they are cast, or look at them before Jeff gets them. I'm guessing if there really were a three-way tie, it would get taken care of right there at the final tribal and not left for months to be determined at the live finale.


Yes, they would fix it right then. Same with a 4-4-1 two-way tie, which I actually think is more likely than a 3-way tie.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I'm a member of this forum who doesn't want to read those kinds of comments in a TV show thread. If someone wants to make comments like that then they can start a thread that I can ignore. I can't ignore it in a TV show thread.


I bet your a big fan of the Leah Remini is fat thread! hehe


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I have no problem with anyone thinking a female mustache is unattractive. I do have a problem with people making fun of it or anything else about a person's natural appearance. If you (not you specifically Anubys) don't like it, fine, but keep the nasty comments to yourself.
> 
> I don't agree that Kim could do something about it while on the island. If she had shaved it, it would have just grown back. Many women don't shave because it's a very short term fix that makes it worse in the long run.


I'm not a woman, but if I was and I had any male hair traits and was going to be on this show, I'd invest in laser hair removal.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

donnoh said:


> I'm not a woman, but if I was and I had any male hair traits and was going to be on this show, I'd invest in laser hair removal.


It's entirely possible that Kim underestimated the amount of lip hair that would grow in over 39 days.

LOTS of women pluck the hell out of unsightly hairs. It's really no big deal.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

WO312 said:


> Yes, they would fix it right then. Same with a 4-4-1 two-way tie, which I actually think is more likely than a 3-way tie.


Years ago, I read an interview with Jeff that stated that the producers do not look at the votes (or the voting footage) until they edit the final episode (a week or two before the show.)

This could have changed when they went to a 3 person Final Tribal.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

My guess is if it was 4-4-1 then the person who received the vote of 1 would get 3rd place and the person who cast the vote of 1 would have to recast it between the other 2.

No idea what they would do if it was 3-3-3.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

TriBruin said:


> Years ago, I read an interview with Jeff that stated that the producers do not look at the votes (or the voting footage) until they edit the final episode (a week or two before the show.)


I call B.S. on that.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

tiams said:


> I call B.S. on that.


Yeah, no WAY that is true because they are always read to create the most drama. Only way to do that is to look at them and arrange them accordingly.


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## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Yeah, no WAY that is true because they are always read to create the most drama. Only way to do that is to look at them and arrange them accordingly.


TriBruin didn't say they weren't read at all, only that they weren't read until a week or two before the finale, at which point they decide the order to be read.

I guess I _could_ buy that. I don't really see a reason why Jeff would lie about it, and it would lessen the chances of the final result being leaked months before the finale.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Yeah, no WAY that is true because they are always read to create the most drama. Only way to do that is to look at them and arrange them accordingly.


I think he was referring only to the votes from final tribal council.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

pmyers said:


> Yeah, no WAY that is true because they are always read to create the most drama. Only way to do that is to look at them and arrange them accordingly.


It would take them longer than a week or two to arrange them in dramatic order?


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

donnoh said:


> I'm not a woman, but if I was and I had any male hair traits and was going to be on this show, I'd invest in laser hair removal.


I've tried laser hair removal on my legs. It's expensive and doesn't always work very well. After 3 years of treatments I still have enough hair on my legs that I have to shave them. 


pmyers said:


> I bet your a big fan of the Leah Remini is fat thread! hehe


See, that one I can easily ignore. Not so easy when it's week after week of nasty comments in multiple threads.



TheMerk said:


> It's entirely possible that Kim underestimated the amount of lip hair that would grow in over 39 days.
> 
> LOTS of women pluck the hell out of unsightly hairs. It's really no big deal.


I don't have a dark hair mustache, but I have a lot of female friends who do. They are all extremely self conscious about it. They pluck, they bleach, they wax, and they still have them. It's a big self esteem issue of many women.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Kim actually mentions the mustache in this interview:

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/the-fien-print/posts/interview-kim-spradlin-talks-survivor-one-world



> HitFix: You said you've had seven months to go over the vote over and over again in your head. What has it been like for the past few months watching this season and seeing how well what you did played out on TV?
> 
> Kim: It's been fun. I tried to expect the worst and walking into Episode One, I had no idea how I was about to get portrayed. I came home and kinda felt like I had a good shot of looking like a villain, so I was thankful that at least they made me look smart. I didn't know how my strategy was going to come across. I did know that I went out there intending to respect people and make good relationships. I never wanted to make it personal or cut people down or say ugly things. It was all about the game for me. So I was really pleasantly surprised with the way it came off...* Minus the mustache.* [She laughs.]


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Kim actually mentions the mustache in this interview:
> 
> http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/the-fien-print/posts/interview-kim-spradlin-talks-survivor-one-world


From that interview:



> I've been saying all along that this is a game and it's what makes "Survivor" unique is that the person who sits there at the end technically did win the game and played the best game. So if Sabrina wins last night? She played a better a better game than I did.


I <3 Kim even more now. That's exactly what I've been saying for years. (I know some people here disagree and call it results oriented thinking).


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Am I the only one that never noticed that Kim had a mustache? It can't be that bad, I couldn't see it on the show even after I knew it was supposed to be there. Maybe my eyes are going... Off to Google...

ETA: Here's a pic I found when I Googled "Kim's Mustache". I'm still not seeing much of anything there that couldn't be explained as dirt.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

flyers088 said:


> I guess we can agree to disagree on this point. But in reality I thought they both looked bad at the reunion. I guess I just like the more natural look than the whole made up looks they had last night.


Actually, I thought Chelsea looked way worse at the reunion, but the other two finalists looked _slightly_ better. Not tons better, but slightly better.

I was amazed at how much worse Chelsea looked all 'dolled up' though.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

bareyb said:


> Am I the only one that never noticed that Kim had a mustache? It can't be that bad, I couldn't see it on the show even after I knew it was supposed to be there. Maybe my eyes are going... Off to Google...
> 
> ETA: Here's a pic I found when I Googled "Kim's Mustache". I'm still not seeing much of anything there that couldn't be explained as dirt.


It's more prominent in this photo.










Edit: After further consideration, it looks like she's capable of growing a fu man chu.

/ ducks, runs and hides


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

bareyb said:


> Am I the only one that never noticed that Kim had a mustache? It can't be that bad, I couldn't see it on the show even after I knew it was supposed to be there. Maybe my eyes are going... Off to Google...


I never noticed it either, even after reading the threads.


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## bikegeek (Dec 28, 2006)

mattack said:


> Actually, I thought Chelsea looked way worse at the reunion, but the other two finalists looked _slightly_ better. Not tons better, but slightly better.
> 
> I was amazed at how much worse Chelsea looked all 'dolled up' though.


:up:


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

steve614 said:


> It's more prominent in this photo.
> 
> Edit: After further consideration, it looks like she's capable of growing a fu man chu.
> 
> / ducks, runs and hides


Hunting for my gun.....


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