# TiVo warns not to buy second hand S1s



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

According to this:



> Moving forward, current Series1 TiVo box owners should transition to the new boxes. You will receive information about a special offer from Virgin Media. Note: *Don't purchase used Series1 boxes, they will no longer be eligible for activation.*


http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/international/tivo-virgin-media.html

Now at the risk of being told I'm a doom and gloom merchant, that doesn't sound good...


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## Duncan (Nov 1, 2002)

That hardly sounds like it will be of any use at all if you live in an area that Virgin doesn't cover.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

They haven't been activating S1 since the end of last year - as some have found.

It still gives not hint on how long activated S1s will last for.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

The new terms and contract thread covered some of the points - but at the end of the day Y&C said the service could end with 28 days notice.


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## smatson (Mar 14, 2001)

Virgin Media in jersey i do not think so


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Sky no longer have access to the US systems at all, and haven't for a while now.

This might mean the closure of the support line - no more contract with sky.

So no new subs, 
and no telephone support, 
but guide data doesn't involve sky, and depending on tivos setup - may be converted from the UK source needed for VM TiVo anyway

We live in hope...


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## ramtops (Sep 26, 2005)

TCM2007 said:


> According to this:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/international/tivo-virgin-media.html
> 
> Now at the risk of being told I'm a doom and gloom merchant, that doesn't sound good...


Sobs ...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Heedyheed said:


> Shouldn't they last a "lifetime"? Or are there some weasel words around the original definition of "lifetime" when Tivos were being sold as new boxes?


Lifetime of the service. You think they should last around 80-100 years or something?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

The system message I had on my S1 Tivo about the new Virgin Tivo service has now been replaced with another system message dated Friday 4th February. I did not delete the previous system message about the new Virgin Tivo service and nor did the new message icon illuminate for either system message from Tivo about the new Virgin Tivo service. This new message waiting icon always illuminates in yellow for box generated messages about a change in channel lineup.

Anyhow the new message has been adjusted to reflect the fact that Virgin have obviously had lots of complaints from Tivo S1 owners who wanted the new Virgin Media Tivo and probably registered for it but find they can't have it as they do not live in Virgin Cable land. The new message reads as follows:-


> *Subject: Tivo's hooked up with Virgin Media in the UK
> From: The Tivo Team
> Date: Fri 4/2
> *
> If you are on the cable footprint, you can get Virgin Media's top TV package and a brand new Tivo box at a very special price. Find out about more and be one of the first to get this offer at virginmedia.com/tivoupgrade


So it seems Virgin's marketing department has finally begun to get the message that they cannot replace Tivo S1 boxes in 50% of UK homes even if people are willing to pay the rather large premium (if Tivo and Virgin are serious about getting rid of the S1 boxes they should have offered a much better deal to customers not taking the XL package even if for brand new Tivo customers for the time being Virgin are requiring them to take the XL package) and now know that they cannot help those Tivo S1 customers.

My view is that Sky's access to Tivo's systems and their ability to take money for the Tivo S1 subs has been cut off by the terms of the new contract with Virgin after a certain date in late 2010 and the exclusive deal Virgin have for all new subs and new customers means that Sky cannot now take any money for subs or access Tivo's subscription record systems. If Tivo perceive that there is going to be a lot of flack with closing UK S1 service then they may well in due course try and negotiate with Virgin to provide customer support on those boxes and start taking the £10 per month payments again. I believe that payment through Sky stopped because there was a critical date after which Sky was contractually no longer allowed to take payments. The costs of still picking up the Tivo S1 customer service line by Sky must be negligible and Sky may have agreed to go on doing this for the short term on a goodwill basis even though there is no longer a formal contract between Tivo and Sky.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I'd agree with most of that bar the last sentence - Sky never do anything for "goodwill"!

I think an open ended support contract from Sky for S1 owners was negotiated as part of a large lump sum settlement in 2002 when TiVo gave up on the UK.

That's still in place 9which is why the CS line still works), but my guess is the Virgin deal's exclusivity means that Sky can no longer take the cash.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> but my guess is the Virgin deal's exclusivity means that Sky can no longer take the cash.


And nor they can reactivate subscription services on any unit currently marked as account closed.

The only way that might possibly now be done is by trying special pleading through forum PM with a Tivo employee familiar with the old UK S1 service like TivoPony or TivoJerry.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I suspect that has a rather more mundane technical root, as that had been the case for some considerable time, certainly well before they stopped taking the &#163;10s.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

How hard would it be for TiVo to support UK customers (activations, monthly subscriptions, direct debit setup etc.) via a page on the tivo.com website? A simple web-form/email system should suffice, with requests being fielded by US-based CSRs - can't imagine there'd be more than a handful of issues raised a week, and the chances of successful conclusion far higher when dealing with the organ grinder than with Sky and their hand-off approach and constant griping about problems with Sky/TiVo computer systems.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Milhouse said:


> A simple web-form/email system should suffice, with requests being fielded by US-based CSRs - can't imagine there'd be more than a handful of issues raised a week, and the chances of successful conclusion far higher when dealing with the organ grinder than with Sky and their hand-off approach and constant griping about problems with Sky/TiVo computer systems.


Or latterly their increasing lack of Tivo specific staff who knew much about what Tivo S1 service was or how to alter subscription arrangements for it. As the S1 is still also a supported product in the USA supporting our UK units should present few issues other than arranging to make sure their US bank can also accept any UK credit or internationally acceptable UK debit card.


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## sad_tivo_man (Apr 27, 2003)

TCM2007 said:


> ....which is why the CS line still works),....


Does it? After getting 'this line is too busy' type messages followed by being hung-up .....to waiting twice in a hold queue for over 30 minutes each time before giving up.....


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## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

What is the correct procedure if I want to officially cancel my Tivo subscription. Yes, I know they have suspended the £10/mo for now, but I want to ensure it isn't restarted in the future and I just want to forget about it. I am not in a Virgin cable area and have moved to Freesat


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

As there is no current "Customer Service" available, I think the only thing you can do is cancel your DD.


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## sad_tivo_man (Apr 27, 2003)

Not so easy...if the small print was a Continuous Payment Authority then it has to come from the other end.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Its easy - if you cancel with the bank then they (the bank) have to refund any subsequent payments


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## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

sad_tivo_man said:


> Not so easy...if the small print was a Continuous Payment Authority then it has to come from the other end.


That's what I was a little afraid of...


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## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

Well, I decided to give the Customer Services number a go (0844 2410 703) and to my surprise after 10 minutes of being on hold I did actually get through. Lady on other end seemed surprised when I mentioned about the Tivo-Virgin hook up when I was explaining why I wanted to cancel, but she seemed to be able to do it OK for me so fingers crossed...!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Its easy - if you cancel with the bank then they (the bank) have to refund any subsequent payments


You can only cancel a *direct debit* on your bank account directly with the bank. A continuous credit card authority has to be cancelled by the payee (Sky/Tivo) after receiving your instruction. If they don't cancel as instructed then you have to show proof to your credit card issuer that they have ignored your instructions. In some cases with disreputable overseas merchants the only solution may be to shut down that credit card completely.

See http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=256 for more information.

You could always send a private message on the forum to forum member TivoPony (as he is Bob Pony, Tivo's Director of Product Marketing) asking him how he thinks accounts should now be cancelled permanently.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> According to this:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/international/tivo-virgin-media.html
> 
> Now at the risk of being told I'm a doom and gloom merchant, that doesn't sound good...


I'm sure it's cold comfort, but it would appear that you are richly entitled to an "*I TOLD YOU SO*".

Condolences from a former colony.


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