# Best way to transfer a lot of recordings between Tivos



## mwacosta (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm getting a new Roamio today and as a result, I'm going to decommission my old S3 that has given me many years of service.

I have a bunch of recordings on the S3 (non copy protected) that I'd like to mass copy to the Roamio. My question is, what is the best way to do that?

If I remember correctly, you can copy from one tivo to another but does it let you copy an entire folder at one time?

Is PyTivo or kmttg suitable for this?


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Doing it from the TiVo I believe you have to queue up each recording; there's no way to select an entire folder at once.

One tip - the S3 will transfer faster if it's not busy buffering liveTV. Switching both tuners to a channel you don't receive, or even unpluggin the input cable, will speed up the transfer (regardless of what method you use to do it).

Sorry I can't help with whether pytivo or kmttg would make it easier to bulk select your shows.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVoToGo is slower and loses a bit of the metadata, so while you might be able to bulk select shows the whole process will be slower and less reliable.

Your best bet is to just select them one by one from one TiVo to the other. It's relatively fast after the first one. (the first one takes a few seconds because it actually starts transferring right away, all others are simply queued)


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Use kmttg to copy it to a computer (you can select multiple recordings).. Then copy back to the other Tivo.. There actually are ways to push recording to a Tivo, but I haven't explored them.

You get *better* metadata using kmttg than copying directly between Tivos!!!


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

My experience is based on, at the time, having more than one S2 DT.

TiVo to TiVo transfers (it's really copies) lose metadata, including original recording date and time.

Copying it all to PC with TiVo Desktop preserves most of that, and if you want to spend the money on hard drives, you can use more than one 2TB drive on the PC, giving both of your TiVos the ability to access far more recordings than they can hold at one time.


----------



## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

S3 to Premiere copies don't lose info, (I went and double checked just in case) skip the computer and and follow DAN203's advice and you'll be good.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah they fixed that long ago. But TiVo to PC does still lose a bit of data.

Plus if you're moving from a Premiere MRV transfers are really fast. If you're coming from a S3/HD, or god forbid a S2, they're going to be really slow so queue them up before you go to bed.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Yeah they fixed that long ago. But TiVo to PC does still lose a bit of data.
> 
> Plus if you're moving from a Premiere MRV transfers are really fast. If you're coming from a S3/HD, or god forbid a S2, they're going to be really slow so queue them up before you go to bed.


One nice thing about copying to PC--If one of your TiVos dies, you've still got the shows as long as you've got another TiVo on the same account.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

unitron said:


> TiVo to TiVo transfers (it's really copies) lose metadata, including original recording date and time.
> 
> 
> tenthplanet said:
> ...


As 10p and others have said, S3 and up does not lose the data, or the captions, or anything else. I keep moving the final episode of LOST to my new TiVos, and everything is there. I assume when I order a Series 5 Pro at some point, I will transfer it again.


----------



## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

astrohip said:


> As 10p and others have said, S3 and up does not lose the data, or the captions, or anything else. I keep moving the final episode of LOST to my new TiVos, and everything is there. I assume when I order a Series 5 Pro at some point, I will transfer it again.


Not true. If you 'push' shows to a tivo from a pc, you definitely lose metadata. Look in the PYTIVO forums to see

If the Tivo pulls them from another Tivo or from pytivo, the metadata is intact.

I would use kmttg to download the files to a pc. That can be queued, and will take a long time, since a S3 tivo will only transfer at 10 m/s or so.

Then you can use pytivo on a pc to setup a tivo 'library'. The tivo can see it and you can transfer from the library to the tivo by selecting each item one by one, but they will queue up.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

My reply wasn't clear. I was affirming tenthplanet's comment that TiVo to TiVo DOES work.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I'll have to play with it some more, but I'm 99% positive there's still SOME info that's lost when transferring between Tivos. I think you *sometimes* get episode #, but don't always get original air date, etc.. it's better than it used to be, but NOT complete.. and definitely not as complete as the info you get if you download to a computer.


----------



## mwacosta (Nov 27, 2006)

Well, I have the Roamio installed and running. The interface is a real change coming from an S3, but I got use to it pretty quick. It's pretty snappy and I hardly know what to do with six tuners. 

I hooked up my old S3 to wired ethernet instead of wireless. Hopefully that will speed up transfers. 

I did a few tivo to tivo transfers and it wasn't that bad. It wasn't great either. I'll probably end up doing this to transfer everything. It's a real pain in the arse, but it's simple to do and I can queue up a bunch of recordings to transfer overnight. It'll probably take me a few days to get everything.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I converted my Wife from a S3 to a Premiere last Christmas. Her S3 with 1TB expander was nearly full. It took about 3 days to transfer everything. I would queue up a bunch of stuff before I went to bed and then I would queue up more in the morning before I started working. I think she had something like 300-400 recordings. Luckily this is the type of thing you only do every few years.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

mwacosta said:


> Well, I have the Roamio installed and running. The interface is a real change coming from an S3, but I got use to it pretty quick. It's pretty snappy and I hardly know what to do with six tuners.


Add padding to as many season passes as you can/care about. That's one of my major uses for more tuners.

Though I admit *mostly* I get by fine with 4 tuners (though I also have a Tivo HD hooked up), I still have a BIT of clipping going on (late night talk shows abutting each other -- TS & LS need a minute or two of end padding or they cut off). 6 tuners would fix that, plus get everything down to ONE Tivo.


----------



## y2jdmbfan (May 7, 2004)

tenthplanet said:


> S3 to Premiere copies don't lose info, (I went and double checked just in case) skip the computer and and follow DAN203's advice and you'll be good.


I tend to lose the episode numbers and seasons when I transfer from TiVo to Tivo. I just transferred 200 shows from a Premiere 4 XL to a Roamio Pro and lost 90% of the episoide and season info. At least the title and date of airing is still there, so I can use TV.com to find out what episodes I am missing.


----------



## InFromTheCold (May 29, 2008)

A related question: as a TWC customer, I find that most (maybe all?) of my recordings are copy-protected, so transferring programs first to my computer is out. 

In the event that I get a Roamio, will I be able to save copy-protected programs that are on my THD, if I do it Tivo-to-Tivo?


----------



## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

InFromTheCold said:


> A related question: as a TWC customer, I find that most (maybe all?) of my recordings are copy-protected, so transferring programs first to my computer is out.
> 
> In the event that I get a Roamio, will I be able to save copy-protected programs that are on my THD, if I do it Tivo-to-Tivo?


No. A Copy Protected show cannot be moved, period. If it was on a premiere, you CAN stream/watch it from the Roamio, but a show copy protected on a TDH can only be watched on the THD.


----------



## InFromTheCold (May 29, 2008)

philhu said:


> No. A Copy Protected show cannot be moved, period. If it was on a premiere, you CAN stream/watch it from the Roamio, but a show copy protected on a TDH can only be watched on the THD.


Thanks. Also . Was hoping to sell the THD upon getting a Roamio, and I suppose I still can, if I'm willing to dump those programs. Decisions, decisions...


----------



## TripFoeYa (Jan 2, 2007)

y2jdmbfan said:


> I tend to lose the episode numbers and seasons when I transfer from TiVo to Tivo. I just transferred 200 shows from a Premiere 4 XL to a Roamio Pro and lost 90% of the episoide and season info. At least the title and date of airing is still there, so I can use TV.com to find out what episodes I am missing.


So the idea of TiVo to TiVo DOES NOT retain metadata? I'm purchasing a Pro soon and have 3 Premiere's full of shows I would like to transfer. Not happy about the fact of losing show data. Any solid suggestions?


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

From S3 to Roamio you will lose some of the data. They changed the format somewhere along the line and never updated the S3 software to match. From Premiere to Roamio you retain everything.


----------



## TripFoeYa (Jan 2, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> From S3 to Roamio you will lose some of the data. They changed the format somewhere along the line and never updated the S3 software to match. From Premiere to Roamio you retain everything.


Thank you Dan, I appreciate the info. I'm sure I have over 300 shows that need transferring. I know my thumb will be hurting after all those button pushes.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I did almost 200, was a little daunting. Had to take a couple of breaks in the middle.


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> From S3 to Roamio you will lose some of the data. They changed the format somewhere along the line and never updated the S3 software to match. From Premiere to Roamio you retain everything.


What about from S3 to S3?

And does it make a difference if one is a 648 and the other a 652 or 658?


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think you might lose a bit of data going S3 to S3 as well. I no longer have any S3 units, so I can't say for sure.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

At least between OLED S3 & TivoHD, you definitely lost data.

Like I think I said above, if you download with kmttg, then transfer to the new Tivo, it will be easier, and I *think* you may have some metadata retained that you wouldn't otherwise.


----------



## TripFoeYa (Jan 2, 2007)

250+ transfers later I can now say for sure that Premiere to Roamio retains all show data.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yep, for me too. Also moved my wife from 2 tuner Premiere to an XL4 and that did too. KMTTG also made moving the SPs a breeze.


----------



## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

So from OLED S3 to Roamio, the best way to retain data is to first transfer to PC using kmttg?

Will kmttg then take care of the meta-data translation to the newer format mentioned above?

Is it still true there is loss of data with OLED S3 11.0m (which I believe folks have said only solved the expired cookie issue, but I don't know if people really investigated in depth)


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think there will be a loss of some data, such as episode numbers, actor information, etc.., when transferring from a S3 unit no matter if you do it via the PC or TiVo to TiVo. If the source TiVo is a Premiere or Roamio then all data is retained TiVo to TiVo.


----------



## Mikem965 (Apr 20, 2014)

I'm trying to transfer programs from my premier to my new roamio. I get 10-11 programs in que and then get a C133 error stating I've lost wireless connectivity. 
Tried this 4 times and the same thing happens. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## telemark (Nov 12, 2013)

Maybe nothing wrong. Sounds like intermittent wireless signal.

Is the box with the error on Ethernet as well? Do wifi computers near that Tivo have reliable internet?

Weak wifi will cause all sorts of headaches so if that's it you'll definitely want to try to fix it.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Also some APs can't handle a consistent, fast wireless connection either and will cause issues.


----------



## dbaguy (Jul 17, 2014)

I realize this is an old thread but it would sure be nice if Tivo had a way of bulk selecting shows to copy from tivo to tivo.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Yeah, but that's not really the "intent". Plus, you often lose things like episode #, episode title, etc., when moving between Tivos.. (As I said before, you often get BETTER metadata, but still not perfect, when using a computer as the go-between.)

Yes, I wish it all worked perfectly wholly in the Tivo ecosystem, but it doesn't.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mattack said:


> Yeah, but that's not really the "intent". Plus, you often lose things like episode #, episode title, etc., when moving between Tivos.. (As I said before, you often get BETTER metadata, but still not perfect, when using a computer as the go-between.)
> 
> Yes, I wish it all worked perfectly wholly in the Tivo ecosystem, but it doesn't.


Really? When I transfer content from my Roamio Pro connected to cable to my Roamio Basic on OTA, all that info has always been intact. Even going from the BAsic to the Pro with OTA content, the info is still intact.

And then if I transfer it to my TiVo Desktop PC with KMTTG and then go to my BAsic and transfer it from the PC, all the info has still been intact. So far I have not run across any issues with it since getting my Roamio Basic last fall.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Metadata retention on a transfer is much better now when the destination is a Premiere or Roamio, regardless of the source. You still lose some on occasion, again regardless of source. In particular, any of the data such as Season & Episode #'s that are based on programId can be lost.


----------



## p1ague (Nov 22, 2009)

I concur with everyone saying that PC data retention is unlikely to be better, and could be worse, than TiVo to TiVo in almost every case. The one thing that I've found makes TiVo1 -> PC then TiVo2 <- PC preferable in some cases (I wrote it like this to show that it's "pull" rather than "push".. I don't think "push" is good for metadata in ANY case,) is that, if you select the "metadata" checkbox in kmttg, and serve it up with PyTivo including metadata from that .txt file, then that means you are able to EDIT the metadata.. fix episode numbers that get broken, etc.

There does seem to be a huge issue, though, this only works the first time, if you examine and fix the metadata .txt file BEFORE pulling the show.. once TiVo2 has seen bad metadata with a particular ProgramID value in it, it hangs on to that bad data, and it looks like it will ignore any fixes you make.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I guess I should try it again.. Back when I was doing a lot more transferring to computer, the data was way better on the computer than tivo<>tivo.


----------



## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

I just transferred a bunch of recordings from Roamio to Roamio and it went off without a hitch - and was pretty speedy as well.


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> I guess I should try it again.. Back when I was doing a lot more transferring to computer, the data was way better on the computer than tivo<>tivo.





sangs said:


> I just transferred a bunch of recordings from Roamio to Roamio and it went off without a hitch - and was pretty speedy as well.


They changed the behavior of TiVo-TiVo transfers in regards to metadata a while back(2+ years), at least when the destination is a Series 4 or later running the HDUI.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Well, he said "without a hitch".. did he actually check episode # and all of the other metadata? Some of the missing info can be subtle.

I'm not _trying_ to argue, I know it's better than it used to be..


----------



## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

mattack said:


> Well, he said "without a hitch".. did he actually check episode # and all of the other metadata? Some of the missing info can be subtle.


I dunno what he did. I do know what I've seen. You know me, I'm a metadata fanatic and if I'm satisfied.... 



mattack said:


> I'm not _trying_ to argue, I know it's better than it used to be..


The HDUI metadata seems to be based on the programId. If it is recognized and properly processed by the receiving TiVo, it's all good. If not, it's not. Sending it through a PC won't help.

I suppose this is as good a place as any to report something I discovered yesterday. The use of programId for metadata acquisition applies to *pushed* recordings as well as pulled ones. They even end up grouped together. By that I mean that pushed, pulled, and natively recorded episodes of a series will end up in the same group.

Unfortunately, the latter behavior makes pushes even more problematic. You can end up with pushed episodes ending up in two different groups, depending on whether or not the TiVo has a problem with the programId.

There's also a metadata value that I consider crucial that is not based on programId and is not propagated via a push but is via a pull - the time the recording was made. This requires that you push episodes in the correct order so that they will sort properly within the group. Of course, TiVo could fix this if they implemented a "sort by OAD" option.


----------



## opus472 (Jul 4, 2007)

Transferring from HD to Roamio is taking forever (at least 12 hours for a 2-hour show) with a wireless connection at 75mbps. Plus, some of the queued-up shows disappear from the queue and have to be added back again.


----------



## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Why not go wired for the transfer? The old box does not need a head, so move it closer to the router.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah wifi is going to be painful. Go wired and it should be faster. Although the HD isn't very fast transferring period, so it's still going to be slow.


----------



## opus472 (Jul 4, 2007)

Not sure I understand why wifi would be so slow with a solid connection at 75mbps. Or why shows disappear from the queue.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

opus472 said:


> Not sure I understand why wifi would be so slow with a solid connection at 75mbps. Or why shows disappear from the queue.


Under network diagnostics on the Roamio, check the transfer speed for incoming programs. What speed does it show? Your internet speed has no affect. From my basic Roamio getting programs from a basic Premiere (both wireless) my normal rate is over 80Mbps. That is usually a 1 hour HD program in 15 minutes.

It has been found that putting the source box into standby gives a small speed increase. Limit your transfer to 5 shows at once. Check the History for why the programs failed using the Info button.


----------



## HD_Dude (Sep 11, 2006)

mwacosta said:


> Well, I have the Roamio installed and running. The interface is a real change coming from an S3, but I got use to it pretty quick. It's pretty snappy and I hardly know what to do with six tuners.
> 
> I hooked up my old S3 to wired ethernet instead of wireless. Hopefully that will speed up transfers.
> 
> I did a few tivo to tivo transfers and it wasn't that bad. It wasn't great either. I'll probably end up doing this to transfer everything. It's a real pain in the arse, but it's simple to do and I can queue up a bunch of recordings to transfer overnight. It'll probably take me a few days to get everything.


I just did the exact same thing. Transferred all my shows from an S3 with a 1TB HDD, to a new Roamio Pro.

Used the TiVo to TiVo method, with wired ethernet. And yes, the S3 was not connected to cable, or antenna.

Two things take time. First, manually picking the recordings to transfer. That's something that takes a while. Second - the transfers themselves.

But the good news there is, you can go about your business while it happens. Sleep, leave the house, go to work, or even use the Roamio for other stuff. The transfers happen in the background.

And now, everything is on the Pro, looks great, and the S3 can retire with dignity.


----------



## opus472 (Jul 4, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> Under network diagnostics on the Roamio, check the transfer speed for incoming programs


Ugh, it's 5mbs


----------



## opus472 (Jul 4, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> Check the History for why the programs failed using the Info button


What screen should I be in before using the info button?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

opus472 said:


> Not sure I understand why wifi would be so slow with a solid connection at 75mbps. Or why shows disappear from the queue.


A premiere can't transfer at anywhere near those speeds. S3 boxes are very, very slow for transfers. While my Bolts can hit up to 499Mb/s for transfer speeds.



opus472 said:


> Ugh, it's 5mbs


Although if I remember it should still be able to transfer at over five times that speed. But that would still be under 30Mb/s


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

opus472 said:


> What screen should I be in before using the info button?


TiVo Central, Manage Recording & OnePass. It's under the OnePass Manager. If there is no reason then it was deleted remotely.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

aaronwt said:


> A premiere can't transfer at anywhere near those speeds. S3 boxes are very, very slow for transfers. While my Bolts can hit up to 499Mb/s for transfer speeds.
> 
> Although if I remember it should still be able to transfer at over five times that speed. But that would still be under 30Mb/s


Transfers initiated by my basic Premieres are always about 60-65Mbps. Those initiated by the basic Roamio are just over 80Mbps when getting data from a Premiere.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Transfers initiated by my basic Premieres are always about 60-65Mbps. Those initiated by the basic Roamio are just over 80Mbps when getting data from a Premiere.


For some reason I was thinking S3 instead of a Premiere.  I still have one lifetime Premiere here, unplugged that I haven't used in a while.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

aaronwt said:


> For some reason I was thinking S3 instead of a Premiere.  I still have one lifetime Premiere here, unplugged that I haven't used in a while.


Not your fault. There are two different posters with transfer issues. One with a Premier (OP) and another with an S3.


----------



## Restlessmonkey (Oct 21, 2015)

Thanks for the info.


----------

