# Account Status - 11: Evaluation



## stoogie

Hi,

Have been lurking the forum for a while, but now have reason to post...

My Thomson Tivo has changed status, from being full-on account setup lifetime payment etc to 11: Evaluation...  

Has anything changed with what "lifetime" means>

Did a test call, and restarted the box, but either has fixed the Account Status...  

Any pointers?

Cheers,

.\/.artin


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## GarySargent

Odd. Give customer services a call, but with it being labor day weekend in the US it might take a few days.


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## bigwold

One of mine has changed as well, from 'good standing' to evaluation.


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## digital_S

Wonder if it's a punishment, for not posting  Just hope my account doesnt do the same! *worries*


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## GarySargent

Hmmm so has one of my TiVo's! I'll report it direct to TiVo then, looks like a fault.


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## stoogie

Phew! 

I thought it was just me ...  

Sorry you have the problem, but glad to hear its not unique to yours truly!

It still seems to be working OK, but the TV GUide is up the shoot, with grey channels and wierd ordering - no doubt something to do with the evaluation status... 

BTW, in case its important, my machine is 100% unmodded... Its one of "those" tasks to get the wireless etc setup... just never got around to it...  

I will hang fire on calling it in as you are going direct (though I am happy to call it in too if it makes sense / helps!) and look forward to the feedback from TiVo via this forum?

Cheers,

.\/.artin


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## mini__me

Both my lifers are 11 also, though I haven't noticed anything wrong with the guidedata...


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## DaWo

Same happened to me.
Spotted it last night and was beginning to panic!!!


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## 6022tivo

Mine has not done a call for a day or two, have just unlugged the net cable to keep it staus 5, just in case the guide data is silly as someone has mentioned.


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## GarySargent

Guide data is fine on mine too so suspect that is a different issue.

I've logged the issue with TiVo in the USA so hopefully it will get resolved once they come back from their long (Labor day) weekend.


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## aerialplug

One of the TiVos here at work has changed to 11:Evaluation last week. It dialled in for the first time since May so I initially suspected it was something to do with that.

I immediately phoned TiVo to ask what it meant, worried that the account had expired because it had been left too long without dialing up (something that's happened to one of our other demo TiVos) - I was told that because the TiVo was originally given to us prior to launch as a demonstration model, it officially was an evaluation model rather than a lifetime subscription, but practically there was no difference as far as subscription was concerned.

Now that I hear that others have had the same happen, I'm not so sure.

[edit: some appalling english corrected!]


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## bigwold

That might explain my change as well as I'd always thought it was some sort of demo model.


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## jeremy Parsons

My First Tivo has the dreaded status 11 - all seems to be working ok at the moment , tivo 2 still has a status of 5 lets hope this is fixed before our evaluation expires!


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## GarySargent

Note it isn't necessary for everyone to post "me too" - TiVo are looking into this now


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## stoogie

> That might explain my change as well as I'd always thought it was
> some sort of demo model.

Not here.. bought from John Lewis...

.. and if the evaluation is 4 years, then I am surprised(!)


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## 6022tivo

Has this been fixed yet.

I have not let tivo do a call for about 5 days now, just in case.


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## GarySargent

Not yet but I don't see any reason not to call anyway.


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## GarySargent

TiVo have confirmed this state is harmless, and the boxes are still lifetime subscribed.

It should be rectified eventually.


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## mini__me

Fair enough, I'm happy with that


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## GarySargent

Unfortunately TiVo have now changed their mind on this matter over what I originally said.

They now believe that any boxes currently on status 11-Evaluation are on the correct status.

This status means that the user has a lifetime subscription, but they did not pay TiVo any cash for that subscription. In the US this would mean your account wouldn't be valid for multiple subscriber discounts etc as it was a free account (in the UK we don't have such offers).

I'm told this is a cosmetic issue only and the service received by the user is the same, though this old thread has a slightly more worrying description about this status: http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/topic/137953-1.html

All those that have moved to this status have not actually moved. Previously the system masked this status for UK users and mapped it silently to status "3-Account in good standing", however really you were still on status 11 as far as TiVo HQ were concerned. Now the UK subscription server has merged with the US one this masking is no longer occuring.

TiVo have said that if anyone believes they have paid cash for either a lifetime or monthly subscription, and are on status 11, if they can prove that they should not be on this status then they will change it. You'll need to phone customer services.

I suspect from what some at least have said that they have ex-demo boxes and have paid for a lifetime subscription. Those users should not be on status 11, nor should anyone who has paid for a subscription. If you received your subscription as a free gift, or did not pay for a subscription, then status 11 is the correct status. If you bought your TiVo second hand with subscription, then I guess you can't be sure exactly what the previous owner did, or how they got the subscription.


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## Furball

So if you have a TiVo and it died and it got replaced under warrantee and the paid for sub has been moved to the new machine, then what happens then??

Chris


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## GarySargent

Lifetime subscription is supposed to be lifetime of the box, so if your box was replaced and subscription moved to another one then this is at TiVos (or TiVo's if you are MrTickle) discretion. So maybe they would choose to set it to status 11. That is my interpretation anyway.


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## Grek

Could there be another cause for Status 11?
I was going to bid on this "Lifetime" TiVo on Ebay, the seller says (you can read below), but hearing what everyone here is saying about Status 11, even though the seller has a 100% positive feedback, I wonder if this box really has the pedigree he claims it has...

==============
below is what the Ebay ad reads (ps: the auction is expired)
==============

You are bidding on a Tivo Autographed by Steve Young ( The 49ers NFL Hall of Fame Steve Young ) This unit has Lifetime Service PAID it also has the Tivo to go option PAID It also comes with the Wireless USB adaptor so you can connect to your network wireless and send movies to your computer or laptop - (TivotoGo) - This is a 114 Hour Tivo.


This unit is called 11:Evaluation by TivoThis signifies that is was a special Tivo - it was sold at a charity auction in order to raise money for the Ronnie Lott all stars helping kids foundation. 

What you get:
· One complete Autographed Tivo.
· Lifetime Service Paid
· Tivo to GoPaid
· Original box from Tivo in CA.
· Letter of Authenticity (signed by Steve Young)
· Linksys Wireless Adaptor
· Cables Remote ect
. Check my feedback to know who you are buying from - Any questions please ask.
(seller:jgbksb)


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## Hot4Bo

I won a free S2 from TiVo with free lifetime several years ago. My box also says 11:Evaluation.


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## mrtickle

Grek said:


> Could there be another cause for Status 11?
> I was going to bid on this "Lifetime" TiVo on Ebay,


I assume it wasn't for use in the UK, because that TiVo wouldn't work on the UK tivo service.


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## GarySargent

Status 11 means the user has not paid for their subscription.


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## 6022tivo

So if the user has not paid for the Subs, could a Tivo I paid the £199 for that had a 5 Lifetime change to a 11 after I informed tivo of the sale and new address, i.e the owner now did not pay, but was given the lifetime subbed tivo?


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## cwaring

I think that's getting a bit _too_ technical and convoluted


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## Grek

mrtickle said:


> I assume it wasn't for use in the UK, because that TiVo wouldn't work on the UK tivo service.


 no not for UK use, sorry if that added confusion. I was searching for info on the Status 11:Evaluation - mostly to find out what it meant, and found the most information here in the UK forum.

You guys seem to have the "what it means" nailed down, but not so much on the where these boxes come from. I thought I could add to the latter, with the bit about the charity auction as a source of Status 11's from TiVo. I guess ultimately Status 11 just means the box has a "Full on" subscription, but the current owner is not the original purchaser.


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## GarySargent

6022tivo said:


> So if the user has not paid for the Subs, could a Tivo I paid the £199 for that had a 5 Lifetime change to a 11 after I informed tivo of the sale and new address, i.e the owner now did not pay, but was given the lifetime subbed tivo?


I don't think so. It is whether or not someone paid TiVo for the subscription.

In the USA they have discounts for second box owners and other promotions. Those with status 11 would not be eligable for such discounts, as they never really bought the subscription for their first box.


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## dvdfever

Mine's just gone to '11: Evaluation' after four years of use, but there's no messages via the TiVo service about it - why not? Surely some mention of the fact that menu options have disappeared would be in order?

It's a review unit I received in September 2001 and I understood included a lifetime subscription.

However, if they're going to go back on that, why wait a whole four years?

I've emailed the PR company in the meantime but while the unit still functions as it did before, I've lost the "Inside TiVo" and "Channel Highlights" options, not that I used them anyway.


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## 6022tivo

Apparently there is no difference in service with 5:Lifetime or 11:Evaluation.

Also the two menu items are missing because there is no content in them. The contect depends on channel line up etc..

My options have also gone today. Never used or rarly looked in them, so glad, the menu looks cleaner.


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## dvdfever

6022tivo said:


> Apparently there is no difference in service with 5:Lifetime or 11:Evaluation.
> 
> Also the two menu items are missing because there is no content in them. The contect depends on channel line up etc..
> 
> My options have also gone today. Never used or rarly looked in them, so glad, the menu looks cleaner.


I only stumbled across them when I didn't press up/down enough times and then had to wait for the page to load until I could go back to the menu.

I'm presuming the reason for there being no content is because they're just not bothering now, as while I've recently downgraded on Sky to just the Variety and Music mixes I hadn't told the TiVo about all of the channels to 'remove' and some of the content applied to channels like C4 and Sky One.

I was a bit hopeful at first that the change in main menu was due to a software update. Bit of a redundant hope, that one.


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## jed

Just another thought, after I had my box for a while and was so impressed I persuaded my father to buy one through some scheme mentioning me, and happened to get a cheque back (£50 from memory, or was it something like B&Q vouchers). I wonder if because Tivo have given me money back that could have caused a status change and made me a second class citizen?

I'm just relieved that the recent hard drive change doesn't appear to be related if the above comments are anything to go by.


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## dvdfever

FWIW, the menu items that disappeared when I last posted, reappeared a few days later. Had a quick look at them but no more than that since I don't often look in them anyway but just thought I'd mention it. Still on 'Evaluation' though.


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## GarySargent

The missing menus were a global issue affecting all UK TiVo owners (now resolved as you say).


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## blindlemon

I spoke to TiVo CS (UK) the other day and they confirmed that 2 TiVos I bought on eBay recently are Status 11. 

The guy I spoke to said this means the original owner was given free 'lifetime' subs - but that as the TiVos have now been sold and the accounts cancelled, the free 'lifetime' subs are now null & void 

Luckily I didn't pay extra for the subs (and I got the machines for a very good price anyway) so I'm not too bothered, but this could be a word to the wise for anybody with a Status 11 machine they're thinking of selling...


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## etrigan

That's odd. We've always been told that the lifetime sub was the lifetime of the machine. You need to register with Tivo yourself, but the original lifetime sub should then be transferred to your account.


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## blindlemon

Yes, but the point is these are not _real _lifetime subs... apparently.


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## etrigan

I'm guessing the following is what's happening. 

If when you're buying your secondhand Tivo, you set up your own account by calling Tivo, and get the sub transferred from the seller's account to yours, your Tivo stays status 5: Lifetime sub.

That's what's always happened with mine.

If you don't, and the seller's account gets closed, the Tivo becomes effectively orphaned from a user account. At this time, it goes to 11: Evaluation.

Would that analysis match with what others with 11: Evaluation tivos have done?

Alan.


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## jed

Hmm, well I bought mine new from a high street retailer some 4 or 5 years ago, and registered it in my name then and nothing has changed. So why should I be in status 11?


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## etrigan

Well, that's the idea somewhat wasted. In answer to your question - how about phoning them and asking - then letting us know? The more information the better the understanding of what's going on...


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## Captain Scarlet

blindlemon said:


> The guy I spoke to said this means the original owner was given free 'lifetime' subs - but that as the TiVos have now been sold and the accounts cancelled, the free 'lifetime' subs are now null & void


But if you and/or the previous owner hadn't told Tivo they had moved to a new owner they would have been able to carry on working for their lifetime quite happily wouldn't they. 

Lesson for the future to all Tivo owners who bought their Tivos secondhand. Never tell Tivo that the box has a new owner. Of course ideally that means having the name, address and phone number of the previous owner to masquerade as them. Otherwise you will also have to forgo any Tivo customer support to stop them deactivating the sub (when they hear or work out there is a new owner).

You chaps with Status 11 Tivos you bought secondhand are to some extent in the same position as I am with my Panasonic TU-DSB20 Sky box where it has a valid Yellow House card for the FTA channels (ie C4 and C5 these days) but I can't get the card re-regionalised from Scotland to the London tv area because I can't provide Sky with the original subscriber details (I have only confirmed this generically with Sky without giving my smart card number in case they deactivate it for FTV channels - C4 & C5). Also I can't resubscribe the old Sky box for just one month of viewing but only for a whole year's contract which would be a pretty bum deal. Whereas an ex-subscriber can resubscribe for 1 month at a time.


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## Captain Scarlet

etrigan said:


> I'm guessing the following is what's happening.
> 
> If when you're buying your secondhand Tivo, you set up your own account by calling Tivo, and get the sub transferred from the seller's account to yours, your Tivo stays status 5: Lifetime sub.
> 
> That's what's always happened with mine.
> 
> If you don't, and the seller's account gets closed, the Tivo becomes effectively orphaned from a user account. At this time, it goes to 11: Evaluation.
> 
> Would that analysis match with what others with 11: Evaluation tivos have done?


If the seller had a lifetime sub why would he need to contact Tivo at all and how would Tivo know he had sold the unit? Also since Tivo are a very eco friendly company in sending no junk mail at all again the old user has no reason to contact Tivo and complain they still have his details.

The process you are describing works for a box with a paid lifetime £200 sub but not for a box with an Evaluation Free Lifetime Sub.

I expect there are more of these Free Evaluation units kicking around in the uk than Tivo like to admit (look how few were sold for each distribution channel they dealt with and I bet each distribution channel got at least one box with an Evaluation free lifetime sub) and I expect that now Tivo are trying to squeeze every last penny of revenue they can out of the uk service so as to improve the business case for keeping the service going for 2 to 3 years.

I would have thought there was a big operating saving to be made by ending the support contract with Sky and moving tech support on to an email only basis and/or by handling calls in the USA call centre during their opening hours.


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## Captain Scarlet

etrigan said:


> Well, that's the idea somewhat wasted. In answer to your question - how about phoning them and asking - then letting us know? The more information the better the understanding of what's going on...


The danger in phoning for anyone who cannot lay their hands on a receipt showing they paid for the lifetime sub is that their box gets changed from Evaluation to requiring a monthly subscription payment. It seems to me anyone who bought the box secondhand who has changed to 11 Evaluation would be very unwise to telephone Tivo. They would be better off seeking all future support for the unit on here.

The only practical adverse consequence of now being 11 Evaluation is that the box is worth much less if you want to sell it secondhand on Ebay. I bet some of you who have gone to 11 will find the store in question (eg John Lewis) accidentally sold you their Evaluation subbed unit.


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## sanderton

Why would you phone CS at all if your TiVo was behaving as if lifetimed?


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## blindlemon

etrigan said:


> I'm guessing the following is what's happening.
> 
> If when you're buying your secondhand Tivo, you set up your own account by calling Tivo, and get the sub transferred from the seller's account to yours, your Tivo stays status 5: Lifetime sub. [...] If you don't, and the seller's account gets closed, the Tivo becomes effectively orphaned from a user account. At this time, it goes to 11: Evaluation.


No.

I have bought a number of TiVos with 'proper' Lifetime subs (5) and even if the seller's account is closed (which it has to be to transfer the existing sub to a new owner with a new account) the status remains at Lifetime (5) when the new account takes over the sub. That, as I understand it, is what a 'proper' Lifetime sub has always done, and will continue to do.

However, with a 'free' sort-of-lifetime sub (11) the original owner was given it as a freebie by TiVo and although it remained free while he/she owned it, TiVo reserve the right to cancel it if the unit is sold, and have recently started enforcing this rule. At that point - ie. when it is cancelled - it reverts to 'no sub' and will be treated as any other unsubbed TiVo that has changed hands.


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## healeydave

As Tivo has always stated in the case of Lifetime Subscription, its the box itself that the subscription belongs to, not the owner.

The opposite of the AA (where the member is subscribed and not the car).

So there is never any reason for a user to be concerned with ownership when it comes to Tivo Lifetime Subscriptions!! 
In fact starting a converstion with customer services is more likely to end in tears be it an administrative cockup or genuine reason, your just increasing your odds of something going wrong, (the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it").


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## Captain Scarlet

blindlemon said:


> However, with a 'free' sort-of-lifetime sub (11) the original owner was given it as a freebie by TiVo and although it remained free while he/she owned it, TiVo reserve the right to cancel it if the unit is sold, and have recently started enforcing this rule.


I don't expect there was a particularly active conscious decision at Tivo to cut off the new owners of uk evaluation Tivos who foolishly (or more often innocently having been duped by the original owner who got the box for free) tell Tivo there has been a change of owner. Its just that the uk subscription servers clearly never had the Evaluation Status facility properly implemented for uk Tivo S1 boxes which should have been in condition 11 status. So by default they ended up being classed as 5 - Lifetime.

Now that the two subcription support platforms have been merged what the US management always intended should happen with Evaluation boxes is now finally happening so one can't really complain about them trying to stop something happening which they never intended to allow in the first place. Of course I expect there are a few casualties with boxes that should not be classifed as 11 in the database accidentally being so classified. I expect if one can produce enough evidence that Tivo will be persuaded to move you back to 5.

And for everyone else in the uk who paid for their lifetime sub (as I did) or is paying a monthly sub its good news as all things being equal more of these status 11 boxes will start paying monthly subs or get a lifetime sub and thus Tivo will get more uk revenue that makes them feel like keeping the uk service going longer. Especially if it is still a modestly profitable venture for them.


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## Captain Scarlet

healeydave said:


> The opposite of the AA (where the member is subscribed and not the car).


Yes Tivo Lifetime is like Green Flag where the car is subscribed and not the owner. Although they don't offer lifetime subscription for that car and you can pay extra for personal membership that covers you on any car.


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## dvdfever

Captain Scarlet said:


> And for everyone else in the uk who paid for their lifetime sub (as I did) or is paying a monthly sub its good news as all things being equal more of these status 11 boxes will start paying monthly subs or get a lifetime sub and thus Tivo will get more uk revenue that makes them feel like keeping the uk service going longer. Especially if it is still a modestly profitable venture for them.


Mine was a review unit, as previously described, and I've known it being on '11' since I mentioned it in this thread, but if they were switched off when I would go for the lifetime sub as it's something I can't live without and I'd rather pay that than have TiVo cease trading in the UK.

However, it never said '5' for lifetime, it said "3: Account in good standing", which I presumed was the equivalent of monthly payments kept up to date. Am I understanding that right?

TIA,


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## Captain Scarlet

dvdfever said:


> Mine was a review unit, as previously described, and I've known it being on '11' since I mentioned it in this thread, but if they were switched off when I would go for the lifetime sub as it's something I can't live without and I'd rather pay that than have TiVo cease trading in the UK.


This only seems to prove the rightness of Tivo's decision to now prevent the free demo units moving on to new owners still without paying any form of sub. In my opinion once they had pulled out of the uk they really ought to have made all the free demo boxes start paying a sub but I suspect their record keeping was not up to this. The latest change has obviously only happened due to the integration of the US and UK Tivo subscription hardware platform.

However it would seem that as long as you don't sell your box to anyone else and tell Tivo you have done so that you will continue to enjoy a free lifetime sub. Unless of course too many of you in this situation keep reminding TivoPony and others in the USA about all those uk boxes floating around owned by people who never paid a penny for either the box or their sub.


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## blindlemon

So long as the box remains with the original recipient of the freebie sub I can't see that TiVo would have any issues. 

However, I suspect that the number of status 11 boxes is limited anyway - and also that they are very over-represented on this forum due to the enthusiast/early adopter profile of most forum members. 

The moral, if any, of this would seem to be: if you have a status 11 box, hold onto it


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## kitschcamp

blindlemon said:


> The moral, if any, of this would seem to be: if you have a TiVo, hold onto it


I've corrected your post for you


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## blindlemon

Well I guess that goes without saying


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## funtoupgrade

Just a note here from USA. To my knowledge Service State 11 machines are still working as lifetime units here. The last time I talked with TiVo they indicated the service could be cut off at any time but they did not have any immediate plans to do this. They also indicated a change of phone number would flag the account for cancellation should they decide to go ahead and do this, since demo units stay in the same place until discarded.


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## GarySargent

I've moved houses and phone numbers with a service state 11 box and it hasn't been cancelled as a result (mine is not a demo box though).


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## nbaker

Any updates to this?

Just bought a 2nd Tivo off ebay and this box is also status 11.

Nige.


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## GarySargent

Other than the boxes are still working - no update.


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## jtzi

I've got one of these boxes too. I think the main advice as Blindlemon has found is "don't call customer services" and just enjoy it.

This whole Status 11 thing explains why, a couple of years ago when I called customer services the guy was so confused. I also bought my Tivo on ebay and had no need to phone up to register it in my name as it was working great out of the box on a status of 3: Account in Good Standing.

When I did eventually phone to request 2.5.5a software the guy on CS was slightly perplexed. At first he said it couldn't be done but it took me about 3 calls to speak to someone who understood my teletext issue and acknowledge the existance of 2.5.5a so he just changed the name on the account to keep me sweet I think.

Now my Tivo has changed to status 11 I guess that explains why he was perplexed and said he couldn't update the account details. My service hasn't changed and I feel lucky to have got what I consider to be a lifetime sub...


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## cwaring

I don't often wish nasty things on people, but in these cases I can make an exception


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