# Season Passes are Weak!



## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Season Pass filtering options badly need beefing up. In Passport Echo (which I used on a leased cable DVR prior to buying my Series 3), you can specify that a program should be recorded only if it's scheduled at a specific time and/or only if it's scheduled on a specific day of the week, range or set of days ("every Monday", "every weekday", "every weekend day", "Mondays, Tuesdays or Fridays", etc; though Passport didn't have it, I'd love to see a range of start-times, so I could say "any weekday when it airs in primetime"). TiVo basically filters on channel and first-run/repeat status (Passport Echo gives the option of recording a program only from a specific channel or on every channel it airs on--with TiVo one has to create a separate Season Pass for every channel if that's what's desired).

My frustration stems from the fact that I was recording Sunday evening's episode of _Family Guy_ on Fox. Our local Fox affilate changed to a channel which airs two episodes early every weeknight--there's no way of excluding those repeats without filtering on first-run status and I'm not willing to trust the guide to always be right about that. I've thrown up my hands and deleted the season pass--I can't see any way to do what I want other than remembering to set manual recordings.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

You _should_ trust the guide, in most cases -- certainly for primetime network shows like _Family Guy_. Only for shows with bad guide data would your suggestion make sense, and IMHO the better solution would be to get better guide data. Otherwise, what you're describing _is_ a manual recording.

But, you don't have to remember to set manual recordings -- you can schedule them on a recurring basis. It sounds like you may not know about this feature. Go to Find Programs, Record by Time or Channel, Set Up Manual Recording. There you can program the TiVo VCR-style.

But in the specific case you cited, you should absolutely be using a Season Pass set to First-run only. It will work.

Also, the TiVo does have an option to record a show on every channel. It's just that it calls that a "WishList" rather than a "Season Pass", and it works by name (or other criteria) rather than series ID.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> You _should_ trust the guide, in most cases -- certainly for primetime network shows like _Family Guy_. Only for shows with bad guide data would your suggestion make sense, and IMHO the better solution would be to get better guide data. Otherwise, what you're describing _is_ a manual recording.
> 
> But, you don't have to remember to set manual recordings -- you can schedule them on a recurring basis. It sounds like you may not know about this feature. Go to Find Programs, Record by Time or Channel, Set Up Manual Recording. There you can program the TiVo VCR-style.
> 
> ...


Not always. I have a season pass set for The Simpsons, and it is set for new eps only, and guess what? Every weekday I end up deleting 3 eps of the simpsons every day, even though it is set up for new episodes only. I have the same issue with South Park as well.

I have deleted season passes numerous times and have simply given up on trying to get my HD TIVO to only record new eps of various shows because it wants to think a Simpsons episode that originally aired in 1998 is new.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

mike3775 said:


> Not always.


Not always what?



> _I have a season pass set for The Simpsons, and it is set for new eps only, and guess what? Every weekday I end up deleting 3 eps of the simpsons every day, even though it is set up for new episodes only._


Yes, that's bad guide data at work. Specifically, it's a lack of data -- the TiVo can't tell what episode it is, so it records it just to be on the safe side.

I'd write to the station about it. They may have neglected to tell Tribune what episodes they were running.

P.S. When I said "It will work," (I guess this is what you were responding to with "not always"?), I was thinking in terms of always catching new episodes, which I thought was mikeyts' concern in saying "I don't trust the guide to always be right about that." I agree that it _won't_ always _exclude_ old episodes. But it sounded like he hadn't even tried First-run only.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

I've been using TiVo since the year after it appeared on the market, with a couple of years off during which leased cable DVRs capable of HD timeshifting were available and HD TiVos were not. I don't trust the guide data because I have found it, in many years of personal experience, to be untrustworthy. I have seen it fail to identify a new episode as being a new episode and a season pass with a first-run-only filter fail to record it. You only have to miss one new episode of your favorite series to make "First Run Only" seem pretty much useless. I'm very happy for you if it's never happened to you, but it's happened to me more than once.

What I describe is not a manual recording and Wishlists are not even vaguely the same thing. I just want more criteria for recording, based on time and day of the week. Doesn't it seem reasonable to be able to say "Record this series when it airs on channel X on weekdays during primetime hours"? Even if I say something as specific as "record _Family Guy_ when it airs on channel Y on Sundays at 8 PM" because it won't record channel Y on Sundays at 8 PM if what's in the guide at that time is not _Family Guy_.

Time and date related filter options for Season Passes are a completely reasonable ask. As stated, I've used a DVR which had them and they were _very_ useful.


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## meant2live4him (Aug 18, 2008)

The only problem with that...would be if it switched nights. One of the shows I watched last season for one episode was on a Wednesday night instead of Tuesday, but since I had it setup to record only new episodes it caught it (this was a Dish DVR, not a TiVo)

The only thing I don't like about the TiVo HD DVR is that the To Do list doesn't show what shows are being skipped...unless nothing is being skipped and I'm missing it. On the Dish DVR we had we could look at the schedule and it would have a line through the shows that were not going to be recorded. I would be able to look at the list and be like "i like this show more than that show so I'll fix it.." Am I missing something on the HD DVR?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I think TiVo should recognize that there is a problem with broadcasters providing accurate guide data to the publishers and offer some of the more commonly suggested solutions such as those suggested in the OP here. But at the same time I would urge everyone who's experienced bad guide data to contact the broadcaster involved and file a complaint. The best solution is to get the errant broadcaster to get their act together and provide accurate guide data. They're already providing guide data; it's not like it should be a major effort for them to provide a little extra info, typically about repeated episodes so that generic entries can be avoided.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

meant2live4him said:


> The only problem with that...would be if it switched nights. One of the shows I watched last season for one episode was on a Wednesday night instead of Tuesday, but since I had it setup to record only new episodes it caught it (this was a Dish DVR, not a TiVo)


That would be a problem in the "record _Family Guy_ when it airs on channel Y on Sundays at 8 PM", which is why I'd like both day-of-the-week and start-time-range filters, so I could use "record this series when it airs on channel X on weekdays during primetime hours"--if I had the tools with which to specify the latter, I'd use it for all my Season Passes, it would catch episodes airing "this week on a special day and time" and all of the syndicated daytime and late-night re-runs would be filtered out.

Another objection that I have to using the "First Run Only" filter is that, despite best efforts, I sometimes miss an episode. If I record all of the episodes that air at the show's regular time, all of the re-runs will typically be from the current season and I might get a second chance to watch something that I missed. In any case, it's easy enough to say "oh, yeah, I saw that one" and delete a single episode each week--not so easy to deal with a dozen ancient syndicated re-runs.


> The only thing I don't like about the TiVo HD DVR is that the To Do list doesn't show what shows are being skipped...unless nothing is being skipped and I'm missing it. On the Dish DVR we had we could look at the schedule and it would have a line through the shows that were not going to be recorded. I would be able to look at the list and be like "i like this show more than that show so I'll fix it.." Am I missing something on the HD DVR?


There's an item at the top of the "To Do List" labelled "View Recording History". The recording "history" includes a "future history" of shows that it might have recorded but which won't be recorded and if you click an entry it will tell you why.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

The guide data shows that it is a rerun(with the R in it), so how come the Tivo's can't figure out that its a rerun, yet the comcast DVR knows not to record it?

thats something I cannot understand at all.

If the crappy Comcast DVR only records brand new episodes of South Park why can't the tivo do it also, when the tivo is the superior product?

Looking at my to do list for today, I see that my HD Tivo is scheduled to record a Simpsons from 1992(wow last time I checked, its 2008, not 1992) @ 5pm, 1993 @ 6pm, and an episode from 1994 @ 10:30. On my Comcast DVR, it shows nothing to be recorded for the Simpsons. Amazing how the Comcast DVR seems to know its 2008, and not 1992-1994


tivo really does need to tweak its way of recording first run episodes only, because if a comcast DVR can tell a difference between a rerun from 16 yrs ago, so should the Tivo


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

mike3775 said:


> The guide data shows that it is a rerun(with the R in it), so how come the Tivo's can't figure out that its a rerun, yet the comcast DVR knows not to record it?


If you press INFO again while looking at the guide data you should see more details; the text description really is just that: text, at least for the most part. It's the underlying real data that matters to TiVo; As I recall "first run" status is determined by an original air date being within a certain time period of the current date. If the original air date isn't valid/is just made up, first run status isn't valid, et. al.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

dswallow said:


> If you press INFO again while looking at the guide data you should see more details; the text description really is just that: text, at least for the most part. It's the underlying real data that matters to TiVo; As I recall "first run" status is determined by an original air date being within a certain time period of the current date. If the original air date isn't valid/is just made up, first run status isn't valid, et. al.


But thats just it, if the comcast DVR can determine that the ep is not a first run with no issues, how come the tivo cannot?

And sorry, but if a Tivo cannot determine that the year is 2008 and not 1994, then it needs to be fixed ASAP

there is no excuse for the Tivo to think a new show with an original airdate of 12/4/94 should be considered a new episode on 9/2/08, especially if the Comcast DVR can determine that its not a new episode with no problem at all.

And if the tivo cannot figure that out, then why even bother giving the option at all of first run, first run and repeats, and all with duplicates, since it just records all of the eps that air regardless of whether they are first run or not?

Or maybe Tivo should quit using tribune and use whatever the info that Comcast uses then. Anything, just to get rid of me having to delete 3 eps of a TV show every single day, or go into the to do list and tell it not to record eps every day that it is scheduled to record the 3 eps.

Pretty bad IMO, that a crappy DVR from Comcast blows away Tivo in knowing what is a first run and a repeat showing.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

mike3775 said:


> there is no excuse for the Tivo to think a new show with an original airdate of 12/4/94 should be considered a new episode on 9/2/08, especially if the Comcast DVR can determine that its not a new episode with no problem at all.


What I'm suggesting is that the offending program may very well have an original airdate of 12/4/94 but if the guide data shows the original airdate as 9/2/08 then 9/2/08 is what the TiVo is going to use.

There may be another situation -- if the episode number isn't identified. That can result in multiple copies of a recording since the default is the "safety" of recording them all, up to the season pass limits.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mikeyts said:


> Season Pass filtering options badly need beefing up. In Passport Echo (which I used on a leased cable DVR prior to buying my Series 3), you can specify that a program should be recorded only if it's scheduled at a specific time and/or only if it's scheduled on a specific day of the week, range or set of days ("every Monday", "every weekday", "every weekend day", "Mondays, Tuesdays or Fridays", etc; though Passport didn't have it, I'd love to see a range of start-times, so I could say "any weekday when it airs in primetime").


Yeah, I had the SA 8300HD, and its "Season Pass" worked like that. I hated it with a seathing passion. It missed easily 20% of the programs it was supposed to catch.



mikeyts said:


> TiVo basically filters on channel and first-run/repeat status (Passport Echo gives the option of recording a program only from a specific channel or on every channel it airs on--with TiVo one has to create a separate Season Pass for every channel if that's what's desired).


True, but then few series run on more than 1 or 2 channels. I agree it would be nice in some instances to get every episode of a series no matter what the channel. I do have a couple of Season Passes whcih record the same series on different channels. 'No big deal, really, but it might be nice to have only 1 season pass. OTOH, it makes management of the priority less flexible.



mikeyts said:


> My frustration stems from the fact that I was recording Sunday evening's episode of _Family Guy_ on Fox. Our local Fox affilate changed to a channel which airs two episodes early every weeknight--there's no way of excluding those repeats without filtering on first-run status and I'm not willing to trust the guide to always be right about that.


So record both, watch one, and then delete the other or let the TiVo delete it.



mikeyts said:


> I've thrown up my hands and deleted the season pass--I can't see any way to do what I want other than remembering to set manual recordings.


That's pretty much burning down the house to get rid of the rats.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mikeyts said:


> That would be a problem in the "record _Family Guy_ when it airs on channel Y on Sundays at 8 PM", which is why I'd like both day-of-the-week and start-time-range filters, so I could use "record this series when it airs on channel X on weekdays during primetime hours"--if I had the tools with which to specify the latter, I'd use it for all my Season Passes, it would catch episodes airing "this week on a special day and time" and all of the syndicated daytime and late-night re-runs would be filtered out.


Why on Earth would you go to all that riggamarole? First of all, it is only going to make it less likely you will catch a program aired at other than its normal time, and it means you would have to worry about whenever a schedule change is effected. That's something the TiVo is specifically designed to avoid. Secondly, what advantage does all that nonsense afford you?



mikeyts said:


> Another objection that I have to using the "First Run Only" filter is that, despite best efforts, I sometimes miss an episode.


Then don't use it. "First run only" is designed to limit the number of episodes recorded. Its focus is not insured reception. "First run and reruns" makes it much less likely to miss a recording. "All plus duplicates" is designed to eliminate as much as possible any missed recordings. Of course, by manipulating both the priority and the recording parameters, one can get quite intricate in terms of what is recorded, but if your concern is not missing an episode, then select "All plus duplicates".



mikeyts said:


> If I record all of the episodes that air at the show's regular time, all of the re-runs will typically be from the current season and I might get a second chance to watch something that I missed.


And you are guaranteed to miss one which airs on an alternate night, perhaps on a weekend, or is switched in the schedule with another show.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mike3775 said:


> But thats just it, if the comcast DVR can determine that the ep is not a first run with no issues, how come the tivo cannot?


You are claiming the Comcast always can, but - no offense - how reliable is your report? The simple fact is, no matter whether it's Comcast or TiVo, if the information fed to it is not accurate, the DVR isn't going to respond in the expected way.



mike3775 said:


> And sorry, but if a Tivo cannot determine that the year is 2008 and not 1994, then it needs to be fixed ASAP


You didn't read what he wrote. He's not talking about the TiVo's date. The TiVo's date is maintained via NTP, the worldwide standard for computer timekeeping. If the synopsis for the show says it was first aired in 1994, then the TiVo has to believe it.



mike3775 said:


> there is no excuse for the Tivo to think a new show with an original airdate of 12/4/94 should be considered a new episode on 9/2/08


That statement makes no sense at all. A show is only "new" if its original air date is very close to the current date. If someoone accidentally typed in 09/02/04, instead of 09/02/08, there's nothing the TiVo can do about it.



mike3775 said:


> especially if the Comcast DVR can determine that its not a new episode with no problem at all.


Different databases - or even just different fields in the same database - different errors. It was more than a month after my local CATV company had put Universal HD on its lineup before the CATV company DVR even knew there was a channel there, and even then it listed the wrong channel and the wrong programs for the channel. The TiVo had the correct channel and program times within a few days.



mike3775 said:


> And if the tivo cannot figure that out, then why even bother giving the option at all of first run, first run and repeats, and all with duplicates, since it just records all of the eps that air regardless of whether they are first run or not?


That's just false. Your credibility, already low after your convoluted and logically inconsistent statement above concerning air dates, just hit rock bottom, I fear.



mike3775 said:


> Or maybe Tivo should quit using tribune and use whatever the info that Comcast uses then.


Comcast *SUPPLIES* the data to Tribune (and Gemstar). I don't know what database they use. It could be an internal one, in which case the TiVo would not have access in the first place, and would be totally useless for any system other than the local CATV company in the second.



mike3775 said:


> Anything, just to get rid of me having to delete 3 eps of a TV show every single day, or go into the to do list and tell it not to record eps every day that it is scheduled to record the 3 eps.


Do neither. Just ignore them. They don't hurt anything.



mike3775 said:


> Pretty bad IMO, that a crappy DVR from Comcast blows away Tivo in knowing what is a first run and a repeat showing.


Hmm. A minor local variation in an unimportant and for most users completely useless feature rates a "Pretty bad". By that logic, a Ferrari Berlinetta is "pretty bad" because it doesn't have as many cupholders as a Yugo station wagon.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

mike3775 said:


> there is no excuse for the Tivo to think a new show with an original airdate of 12/4/94 should be considered a new episode on 9/2/08, especially if the Comcast DVR can determine that its not a new episode with no problem at all.


Oh, it sounds like you've run into a fairly well-known TiVo quirk.

If the guide data is incomplete (specifically if the episodeID field is blank) then the TiVo will treat the show as a first run because it might be new. This often (almost always) coincides with an extremely generic text description, and is refered to around here as 'generic guide data'

An example of generic guide data, that has this problem: 
The Simpsons Dan Castellaneta, Julie Kavner, Nancy Cartwright. Homer and Marge Simpson raise Bart, Lisa, and baby Maggie. CC, Series

It generically describes the whole series, not a specific episode. Tivo made a decision to treat this type of guide data as First Run on the offchance that it might be a new episode with bad data. (See also "The Daily Show Problem".) It sounds like Comcast made the opposite choice, to assume that they were all reruns.

There are a couple workarounds people have come up with that might be usuable in your situation to block the TiVo from recording these generic guide data episodes.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Jonathan_S said:


> If the guide data is incomplete (specifically if the episodeID field is blank) then the TiVo will treat the show as a first run because it might be new.


The right thing for TiVo to do is allow the user to determine what should happen when it encounters these kinds of episodes.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

tivogurl said:


> The right thing for TiVo to do is allow the user to determine what should happen when it encounters these kinds of episodes.


That would be nice. I set the pass for new episodes only, and yet I get 15 eps recorded every single week, even though none are new.



> You are claiming the Comcast always can, but - no offense - how reliable is your report?


Because I have a Comcast DVR in my living room, sitting right next to the HD Tivo. I have a season pass for the Simpsons set on both, and when looking at the Comcast DVR, there are no recordings of the simpsons this morning, yet on the Tivo there is 3. And like I said, I have the season pass set to new episodes



> That statement makes no sense at all. A show is only "new" if its original air date is very close to the current date


So then why is the HD Tivo recording the episodes from 1994 then? I am not the one typing in the info into the info screen for the tivo



> That's just false. Your credibility, already low after your convoluted and logically inconsistent statement above concerning air dates, just hit rock bottom, I fear


why because I am complaining about my Tivo not working correctly and its recording parameters are screwy? Sorry but I am not a person who puts on rose colored glasses and see's nothing wrong with anything when I know damn well there is.



> Do neither. Just ignore them. They don't hurt anything.


HUH????? they take up space, thats what they do. If I did nothing, I would have at least 64(with Sunday's eps as well) stored on my Tivo, taking up HD space. Of course I may have a **** load of space on the hard drive with the expander, but why should I have anything taking up space when I am not going to watch them?



> Hmm. A minor local variation in an unimportant and for most users completely useless feature rates a "Pretty bad". By that logic, a Ferrari Berlinetta is "pretty bad" because it doesn't have as many cupholders as a Yugo station wagon.


Again, I do not wear rose colored glasses. On these boartds I see threads saying how crappy Comcast's DVR is, yet they have some things that blow Tivo away, like knowing that a episode of a TV show that originally aired in 1994 is not a new episode.


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## heidismiles (Aug 12, 2007)

mikeyts said:


> I've thrown up my hands and deleted the season pass--I can't see any way to do what I want other than remembering to set manual recordings.


That seems very silly. There are lots of easier ways to go about this.

Here's my suggestion:

1) Set up the Season Pass to record First Run Only.
2) Approximately once a week, go into the Season Pass ("Tivo button + 1" is a useful shortcut) for the show. Press "View Upcoming Episodes."
3) Scan the list of upcoming episodes. Look for scheduled recordings (there's a purple checkbox next to them) that aren't actually new, and cancel them. Also double-check that it's not missing any new episodes airing in the time slot you want.

And there you go. It might seem like a hassle, but it only needs to be done one a week and it's certainly easier than setting up multiple manual recordings (especially since FOX airs a lot of sports programming that might pre-empt the show.)


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## Scopeman (Oct 22, 2002)

The issue with "The Simpsons" is driven by episode number, not first-aired-date.

The Tivo guide data has "0" as the episode number on all episodes of the Simpsons shows, even the ones with good descriptions and other guide data.

I do not have a problem with the decision by Tivo to record the extra ones by default in general. This may seem like a problem with this particular show, but with other shows (like Jericho) there were times when a two part episode being shown back-to-back on the same night had exactly the same description and first-aired-date for both episodes. My Tivo grabbed both as it went by episode number, my neighbor w/comcast cable got the first one only, the second was seen as a repeat based on guide data.

There are two potential failure 'modes' for Tivo (and Comcast) to pick from.
1. loose (record the extra shows just in case, potentially filling the drive - Tivo choice)
2. strict (record less shows based on stricter rules, potentially missing a show - comcast choice)

Viewed in this way it is no different than a SPAM filter on your email.

The key difference between the two (IMHO) is the degree to which we can influence the accuracy in the long term of the filtering methodology.

With Tivo you can reach out and drive a change to an error in the Guide data (i suggest you do this for Simpsons if you have not already; tell them they are missing episode numbers)
http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html

There is no comparable option for Comcast, from what I have been told.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

heidismiles said:


> That seems very silly. There are lots of easier ways to go about this.
> 
> Here's my suggestion:
> 
> ...


The problem is that none of those things is what I want and I've already explained why. I want repeats and first runs of this season only--not the syndicated stuff that airs in the afternoon and on weekends, comprising some 12 episodes a week, requiring quite a lot of pruning--it's easier to try to remember to set up individual recordings. (And it takes a lot less time to set up manual recordings of episodes on the two regular nights in the guide than to delete 24 syndicated episodes in two weeks of guide data). First run can't be trusted. Period.

Time and day-of-week filters on season passes isn't that big of an ask--no harder to implement than the fifty-thousand filters they've added to search and wishlists. I've had them in other DVR IPGs and used them.

In the end, it's not that important. _Family Guy_ isn't a serial and if I miss some of the episodes this season, so be it--I'll see them eventually in the fullness of time. There are lots of things that I'd be much more pissed off about, like if they started showing two syndicated episodes of _Bones_ every day .


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## Scopeman (Oct 22, 2002)

mikeyts said:


> The problem is that none of those things is what I want and I've already explained why. I want repeats and first runs of this season only--not the syndicated stuff that airs in the afternoon and on weekends, comprising some 12 episodes a week, requiring quite a lot of pruning...


Another simple fix for this (it *doesn't work* right now) is for Tivo to define the "show title" to include the year it was released (usually shown in brackets right after the episode title.

Then you could set up a wishlist for "Simpsons" and "2008" and you would get only the most recent episodes; you would have to update it once a year only.

But in the end all of the shows that are recording incorrectly right now would work fine if the full data was in the guide data stream. Always good to send a complaint to Tivo, just so they have it on file.


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## videopro (Aug 17, 2008)

Instead of us Tivo users complaining to the guide data providers about inaccurate or incomplete information, I think that Tivo should be doing this. They should want to improve this aspect of their service, which right now is causing these kind of problems.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mike3775 said:


> Because I have a Comcast DVR in my living room, sitting right next to the HD Tivo. I have a season pass for the Simpsons set on both, and when looking at the Comcast DVR, there are no recordings of the simpsons this morning, yet on the Tivo there is 3. And like I said, I have the season pass set to new episodes


My point is, your report covers a limited view of only one particular instance. It's not a personal criticism, it's just that it is essentially impossible for you to have data on how well it works for the hundreds of series out there. What's more, the fact the Comcast DVR has zero while TiVo has three in no way is an absolute metric of how well the TiVo works vs. the Comcast. I would be much more concerned about how many shows the TiVo missed vs. the Comcast as opposed to how many it erred on the side of caution.



mike3775 said:


> So then why is the HD Tivo recording the episodes from 1994 then? I am not the one typing in the info into the info screen for the tivo


That, I don't know.



mike3775 said:


> why because I am complaining about my Tivo not working correctly and its recording parameters are screwy? Sorry but I am not a person who puts on rose colored glasses and see's nothing wrong with anything when I know damn well there is.


Nothing is perfect, including the TiVo. My only measure for competency is that the DVR records everything it is supposed to. The S3 TiVo does a far better job of this than any other DVR I have used. Anything extra that it records is just gravy.



mike3775 said:


> HUH????? they take up space, thats what they do. If I did nothing, I would have at least 64(with Sunday's eps as well) stored on my Tivo, taking up HD space. Of course I may have a **** load of space on the hard drive with the expander, but why should I have anything taking up space when I am not going to watch them?


The TiVo is not a PC. The space isn't "used" in the sense of depletion of a limited resource. It will overwrite whatever programs are necessary when it needs to do so. The only thing about which you as a user need to be concerned is that you either watch any programs you want before they get too old or else mark them as KUID until you have a chance to watch them. Anything else is just available programming if you should like to take a look. My TiVos record thousands of things I won't get a chance to watch. It's irrelevant. The only important things are when I sit down there are a very large variety of things available to watch (in my case well over 1000 programs) and that anything I specifically want to watch will be recorded.



mike3775 said:


> Again, I do not wear rose colored glasses. On these boartds I see threads saying how crappy Comcast's DVR is, yet they have some things that blow Tivo away, like knowing that a episode of a TV show that originally aired in 1994 is not a new episode.


I knew a guy with a 1959 Rambler Station Wagon who bought a really expensive hood ornament for it. It "blew away" the hood ornaments on a Jaguar, Mercedes, or BMW. This does not mean the Rambler "blew away" the aforementioned luxury vehicles. That the TiVo errors in recording s inevitable.
That it errs on the side of caution makes it superior, not inferior, especially since extra recordings are simply irrelevant. They don't really hurt anything. I could understand very well your complaint if the TiVo failed to record things it should, but recording extra material is just not a significant failure.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

videopro said:


> Instead of us Tivo users complaining to the guide data providers about inaccurate or incomplete information, I think that Tivo should be doing this. They should want to improve this aspect of their service, which right now is causing these kind of problems.


How would they know?


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## Philipp5 (Mar 5, 2008)

This is so annoying that you can't tell the Tivo to record a certain show at a CERTAIN HOUR every day or every week. And then when I have to modify my Season Pass, the "Please Wait" phases are ENDLESS. 

I'm ready to dump my Tivo HD and go back to the crappy FiOS DVR. Hopefully open source PC DVRs w/ Cable Cards will come out soon that one can easily tweak.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Philipp5 said:


> This is so annoying that you can't tell the Tivo to record a certain show at a CERTAIN HOUR every day or every week.


Sure you can. That's just a repeating manual recording, not a season pass.



> _Hopefully open source PC DVRs w/ Cable Cards will come out soon that one can easily tweak._


Don't hold your breath.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> Sure you can. That's just a repeating manual recording, not a season pass.


He did say "a certain show at a certain hour". A repeating manual recording will record a specified channel at a specific time, without regard to what's showing on the channel.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

While this sort of thing has never been a major problem for me, I have encountered it. There are a few shows where I find myself frequently editing the to-do list or deleting repeats with generic description. I agree that this is an area where TiVo could improve usability. I think that the idea of being able to define a "time window" in which a Season Pass applies is a very good one (with the default being something like 7pm-11pm), and would resolve most such problems. This will work better than a manual recording for a show that shows several nights per week, but not every night (e.g. The Daily Show), or for which the hour or duration might change a little bit (e.g. "special two-hour episode").


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

My SP for new eps of the Simpsons on Fox works fine here, I get none of the weekday repeats.

Now stuff on Comedy Central like the Daily Show and South Park, is known for bad data that has the TiVo grabbing episodes every time they air.

It's not perfect but I prefer TiVo's handling, so I don't have to worry if a show changes days/time I don't need to remember to fiddle with the SP.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

videopro said:


> Instead of us Tivo users complaining to the guide data providers about inaccurate or incomplete information, I think that Tivo should be doing this. They should want to improve this aspect of their service, which right now is causing these kind of problems.


I think people tend to not realize the scope of how many markets there are in this country and that each market has multiple service providers all that offer different channel lineups. There is no easy way TiVo can track all that info to make sure it's correct. The shows I see on my WB or Fox before primetime are not the same in other markets, you really are talking about thousands of different schedules accross the area TiVo functions.


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

Langree said:


> It's not perfect but I prefer TiVo's handling, so I don't have to worry if a show changes days/time I don't need to remember to fiddle with the SP.


I think the best approach is to retain the way TiVo handles a SP but extend it by allowing the user to optionally limit the SP to a specified time window.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Langree said:


> Now stuff on Comedy Central like the Daily Show and South Park, is known for bad data that has the TiVo grabbing episodes every time they air.


Unless you use the wishlist workaround rather than a season pass.

That seems to be quite reliable at only getting new episodes.

Wishlist workaround: Set a First Run Only Auto-Recording title wishlist for the show title. Then add a keyword for a 4-5 word phrase from the generic bad guide data description. Then give that keywork a thumbs-down.
That tells the TiVo to record every new episode of the show the doesn't contain the 'bad' phrase in it's description.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Jonathan_S said:


> Unless you use the wishlist workaround rather than a season pass.
> 
> That seems to be quite reliable at only getting new episodes.
> 
> ...


Very cool, will need to give it a shot.

I would think that might work with the OPs Simpsons issue too.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Langree said:


> Very cool, will need to give it a shot.
> 
> I would think that might work with the OPs Simpsons issue too.


It does seem to work well. I've got a couple of those wishlists set up to cover Monk and Psych since USA just can't seem to help running 400 of them over the winter with bad guide data.

That said, it is still a workaround, and kind of tedious/annoying to set up. I'm sure we can all agree that it would be better if Season Passes "just worked".

I now await the near inevitable disagreement I've invited with the phrase "I'm sure we can all agree". OTOH maybe this footnote will ward that off; or not...


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## tgibbs (Sep 22, 2002)

Jonathan_S said:


> Unless you use the wishlist workaround rather than a season pass.
> 
> That seems to be quite reliable at only getting new episodes.
> 
> ...


I've used this method on occasion. It's weakness is that it fails if a new show is given a generic description, which I've seen happen a number of times.


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## MAWMMA B3AR (Oct 7, 2008)

I guess it's a pain for you but I really don't care about the repeats. I'll just delete them. I notice that people really look for perfection in some things they buy and it's just not gonna happen. Could the whole system be improved? Maybe, but I like the way it works for me now so I wouldn't even know what I would want.


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

Langree said:


> Very cool, will need to give it a shot.
> 
> I would think that might work with the OPs Simpsons issue too.


It was _Family Guy_ , and no, it won't work for me since every last one of the daytime repeats of _Family Guy_ has both the episode title and a full description of the specific episode.


MAWMMA B3AR said:


> I notice that people really look for perfection in some things they buy and it's just not gonna happen. Could the whole system be improved? Maybe, but I like the way it works for me now so I wouldn't even know what I would want.


Though I'm happy that you're pleased with how your TiVo works, if everyone was as contented with the product as you this subforum wouldn't exist. TiVo-the-company is not content with the product and is constantly making improvements to the way that it works, both small and large. We end-users suggest the ones that we'd like to see both here and by filling of the Suggestions form at TiVo's site.


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## MAWMMA B3AR (Oct 7, 2008)

mikeyts said:


> It was _Family Guy_ , and no, it won't work for me since every last one of the daytime repeats of _Family Guy_ has both the episode title and a full description of the specific episode.
> Though I'm happy that you're pleased with how your TiVo works, if everyone was as contented with the product as you this subforum wouldn't exist. TiVo-the-company is not content with the product and is constantly making improvements to the way that it works, both small and large. We end-users suggest the ones that we'd like to see both here and by filling of the Suggestions form at TiVo's site.


So now you want me to learn new things and demand a better product


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## mikeyts (Jul 10, 2004)

MAWMMA B3AR said:


> So now you want me to learn new things and demand a better product


No--if you're happy with TiVo, be happy . Just allow the rest of us to hope for something even better.


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## MAWMMA B3AR (Oct 7, 2008)

mikeyts said:


> No--if you're happy with TiVo, be happy . Just allow the rest of us to hope for something even better.


I don't recall stopping hope  Did I throw a wrench in the thread because I said I was happy with what my tivo does for me?


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## glen4cindy (Jul 18, 2003)

dswallow said:


> I think TiVo should recognize that there is a problem with broadcasters providing accurate guide data to the publishers and offer some of the more commonly suggested solutions such as those suggested in the OP here. But at the same time I would urge everyone who's experienced bad guide data to contact the broadcaster involved and file a complaint. The best solution is to get the errant broadcaster to get their act together and provide accurate guide data. They're already providing guide data; it's not like it should be a major effort for them to provide a little extra info, typically about repeated episodes so that generic entries can be avoided.


How do you do this? I find numerous problems with guide data on a continous basis.

Case in point. 1. Prison Break. Just before they began running the new episodes, they re-ran 4 or 5 episodes from last season. NONE of them were listed as repeats. 2. House. It is never listed as a repeat. Ever. Even the ones from 2006 and 2007. They have ran several repeats, but, are not shown as such. 3. Intervention. (My wife likes these) They are never shown as repeats. She has to let them record and then watch the beginning of them to see if she has seen them already.

These are only 3 examples of the dozens of the shows we watch or I watch that never show up in the guide as being repeats when they are indeed repeats.

This is evidence that guide data cannot be trusted.

Is this a DirecTv problem or a broadcaster problem?


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