# V87 Errors on Both Minis with Bolt+, NOT Bolt



## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

I had my network working just fine on my Bolt (when my Bolt was actually working, which is a long story in itself...). Two Minis were connected to it.

I swap out my Bolt for a Bolt+ and got everything up and running. Even finally configured my Bolt Mini Remotes with their respective TVs, finally after months of trying to do it the wrong way (trying to use the TV options to pair a new remote, oops!). All of the sudden, both of my Minis are getting V87 errors. I've power cycled my network and my Bolt+, no luck.

Any suggestions?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I think you'll have better luck by describing how your devices are interconnected and networked, including details on other connecting components (splitters, amps, switches, routers, modems, filters, ...).


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> I think you'll have better luck by describing how your devices are interconnected and networked, including details on other connecting components (splitters, amps, switches, routers, modems, filters, ...).


I have Verizon...now Frontier FIOS. My Bolt+ and Minis are connected via MOCA. Again, it worked fine before.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

What do your Minis report re: MoCA stats?

see: Checking MoCA connection quality


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> What do your Minis report re: MoCA stats?
> 
> see: Checking MoCA connection quality


What exactly do you want to know? Theres a lot of Information on that page. I disconnected one Mini and now the other one seems to be working. I have MOCA 1.1. Would this hinder my connection?

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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

Would MOCA POE Filters solve my problem? If so, how many would I need? I'll try and explain my network. I don't exactly know where both of the cables come out from so...

FIOS ONT (Located in my garage) - > ???

??? - > One cable Goes through the wall and into the next bedroom, into a 2-way splitter. The first split goes to the FiOS Router (DHCP Only, Wireless turned off), then to another router (Wireless AP), then to a computer. The second split goes to my TiVo Bolt+

??? - > The second cable wraps around the back of the house, and is split. The first split goes to the dining room area downstairs, and into a TiVo Mini. The second split runs upstairs and is split again. On that split, the first split is a network AP and the second split is my second TiVo Mini.

WHEREAS "???" means that I don't know if there is only one coax plugged into the ONT or if there are two. Thus, there could be a splitter between the two cables that appear to be coming from the ONT as well.

Do I need a POE filter only in between a splitter and a Tivo Device or can I just put one into my network at an early point?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I have FiOS and I'm getting V87 errors too on my two mini's hooked up to my Bolt+ via Moca. I had a Roamio Pro and the same two Mimi's wired the same way with no V87 errors EVER.

I added a POE filter on my ONT before my three way splitter (splitter is Verizon branded) to see if that would help even though I feel a POE filter is not needed with FiOS.

My TiVo Bolt+ is doing the Moca bridge. The Ethernet goes to my Amplifi router.

I don't know what to do, perhaps my Bolt+ is defective?

Called TiVo and was basically asked if I have a POE filter which I said yes since I just added it. They were no help.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> I have FiOS and I'm getting V87 errors too on my two mini's hooked up to my Bolt+ via Moca. I had a Roamio Pro and the same two Mimi's wired the same way with no V87 errors EVER.
> 
> I added a POE filter on my ONT before my three way splitter (splitter is Verizon branded) to see if that would help even though I feel a POE filter is not needed with FiOS.
> 
> ...


What Verizon FiOS Router do you have?

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## Fant (Sep 1, 2016)

Yes you don't need a Poe filter for Fios because they are using fiber which is not shared with your neighbors. Both your fios router and bolt will be trying to create a moca network .. perhaps there is a way to change the bolt to join the existing moca network created rather than create its own.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

I just got a 3rd router. My 2 older routers, are the Actiontecs, B and I, I plan on turning those into MoCA bridges, with my new one, the FIOS quantum router as the main router. My thought is to upgrade the main router to MOCA 2.0 to see if that makes a difference, or since I'll have routers now at each site, I'll have the option to connect via Ethernet as well.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> What Verizon FiOS Router do you have?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I don't use the Verizon router. I had my ONT switched to Ethernet and I use that to go to my Amplifi router.


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## Fant (Sep 1, 2016)

Same here I replaced the fios router with eero and haven't looked back (and an actiontec bonded 2.0 moca bridges)


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

Fant said:


> Same here I replaced the fios router with eero and haven't looked back (and an actiontec bonded 2.0 moca bridges)


Do you have the same Tivo setup as described? That is, Bolt+ and 2 Minis connected to it?

I'm beginning to also wonder if the Bolt+ is defective. My Bolt didn't have this problem in this environment.

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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

JOSHSKORN said:


> I just got a 3rd router. My 2 older routers, are the Actiontecs, B and I, I plan on turning those into MoCA bridges, with my new one, the FIOS quantum router as the main router. My thought is to upgrade the main router to MOCA 2.0 to see if that makes a difference, or since I'll have routers now at each site, I'll have the option to connect via Ethernet as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


+
Actiontec W1424WR Rev A-E are MoCA 1.0 devices and are not compatible with MoCA 2.0 devices. The Rev F to I are MoCA 1.1 and compatible but the Rev I is trickier to configure.
EDIT: Using a MoCA filter with Fios will do no harm and will slightly strengthen the MoCA LAN frequencies, but it is not necessary for security or interference concerns.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> +
> Actiontec W1424WR Rev A-E are MoCA 1.0 devices and are not compatible with MoCA 2.0 devices. The Rev F to I are MoCA 1.1 and compatible but the Rev I is trickier to configure.
> EDIT: Using a MoCA filter with Fios will do no harm and will slightly strengthen the MoCA LAN frequencies, but it is not necessary for security or interference concerns.


How many MOCA filters are necessary? Just one before the split or one at each TIVO device?

For MOCA connection via TIVO Bolt+ and 2 Minis, to upgrade to MOCA 2.0, do I just need to upgrade my router (which I just did today) or what other equipment is necessary to upgrade to MOCA 2.0?

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JOSHSKORN said:


> How many MOCA filters are necessary? Just one before the split or one at each TIVO device?


TYPICALLY, a setup would need just one MoCA filter, at the cable point-of-entry (PoE) to the home, thus the "PoE filter" shorthand you'll often see. However, this filter may NOT be needed for a variety of reasons, such as for fiber Internet customers where there is no concern that MoCA signals would transmit onto the provider plant. (Though as fcfc2 has pointed-out, a MoCA filter may still prove worthwhile for its performance benefits, in such a case, even if it's not required to secure the MoCA network.)

MoCA filters may also be needed on non-MoCA devices connected to a coax plant with a live MoCA network if those devices are negatively affected by the MoCA signals. The most common devices needing such "prophylactic" MoCA filters are tuning adapters and older cable modems.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> TYPICALLY, a setup would need just one MoCA filter, at the cable point-of-entry (PoE) to the home, thus the "PoE filter" shorthand you'll often see. However, this filter may NOT be needed for a variety of reasons, such as for fiber Internet customers where there is no concern that MoCA signals would transmit onto the provider plant. (Though as fcfc2 has pointed-out, a MoCA filter may still prove worthwhile for its performance benefits, in such a case, even if it's not required to secure the MoCA network.)
> 
> MoCA filters may also be needed on non-MoCA devices connected to a coax plant with a live MoCA network if those devices are negatively affected by the MoCA signals. The most common devices needing such "prophylactic" MoCA filters are tuning adapters and older cable modems.


So in MY situation, I would need just one filter or four filters (if any at all)? I'm in California. I WAS on Verizon FIOS, but bow it's FRONTIER FIOS.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JOSHSKORN said:


> For MOCA connection via TIVO Bolt+ and 2 Minis, to upgrade to MOCA 2.0, do I just need to upgrade my router (which I just did today) or what other equipment is necessary to upgrade to MOCA 2.0?


Assuming your router is MoCA 2.0, you've done all that you need to do, and all that you can -- aside from reviewing your splitters for MoCA compliance. (Splitter upgrades aren't required, but something to keep in mind if you're having issues connecting or not getting the performance expected.)

With a MoCA 2.0 router, your BOLT should communicate with the router at standard MoCA 2.0 rates (400+Mbps), and your Minis should communicate with the BOLT or router at MoCA 1.1 rates (up to 170+Mbps).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Catching-up...



JOSHSKORN said:


> krkaufman said:
> 
> 
> > What do your Minis report re: MoCA stats?
> ...


As the page indicates, PHY rates are of primary interest. I also recommend documenting/reporting the power levels (power estimates). For example.



JOSHSKORN said:


> I have MOCA 1.1. Would this hinder my connection?


It should not, no. (Though this now seems moot.)



JOSHSKORN said:


> krkaufman said:
> 
> 
> > I think you'll have better luck by describing how your devices are interconnected and networked, including details on other connecting components (splitters, amps, switches, routers, modems, filters, ...).
> ...


This doesn't tell me how they're connected physically. Your later post helps some, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It sounds like you have a lot of splitters installed, so it would be a good idea to check their specs and upgrade them to MoCA 2.0-compatible specs. (e.g.) It would also be critical to find that missing, mystery "???" splitter.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JOSHSKORN said:


> So in MY situation, I would need just one filter or four filters (if any at all)? I'm in California. I WAS on Verizon FIOS, but bow it's FRONTIER FIOS.


Seeing as you have a fiber Internet provider, and no tuning adapters, it sounds like you shouldn't *need* _any_ MoCA filters.

However, per fcfc2, you *could* possibly benefit, from a performance standpoint, from a single MoCA filter installed on the output of the ONT or on the input to the missing, mystery "???" splitter -- though not having any experience with Verizon/Frontier Fios, myself, I'm not sure how a MoCA filter installed between the ONT and main router would affect the MoCA WAN connection* (assuming a MoCA WAN rather than an Ethernet WAN connection between the ONT and main router).

So, basically, you should be able to fire-up your MoCA network without any MoCA filter installed, and then later try installing a PoE MoCA filter to see if it improves your performance.

* edit: p.s. See this post and its reply for the root of my concern in regards to use of a MoCA filter with Fios installs. Summarizing, the passband for a MoCA filter is 5-1002 MHz but the MoCA WAN frequency range is 975-1025 MHz, so I'd suspect the MoCA filter to have *some* effect on MoCA WAN signals -- though it's possible that the MoCA circuitry can adjust its power levels to compensate. Were you using an Ethernet WAN connection between the ONT and router, then my concern for the MoCA WAN would be eliminated. That said, per the linked posts, fcfc2 has stated that a PoE MoCA filter has not adversely affected their MoCA WAN.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JOSHSKORN said:


> I just got a 3rd router. My 2 older routers, are the Actiontecs, B and I, I plan on turning those into MoCA bridges, with my new one, the FIOS quantum router as the main router. My thought is to upgrade the main router to MOCA 2.0 to see if that makes a difference, or since I'll have routers now at each site, I'll have the option to connect via Ethernet as well


Heed fcfc2's warning regarding use of that MI424-WI *Rev.B* router as a MoCA adapter:


fcfc2 said:


> Actiontec W1424WR Rev A-E are MoCA 1.0 devices and are not compatible with MoCA 2.0 devices.


Another TCFer just faced some hiccups when trying to upgrade their MoCA network with MoCA 1.0 devices still connected. See here.

I'd think it worthwhile to replace that Rev.B with a second Rev.I -- noting that even the Rev.I is only MoCA 1.1, so you wouldn't be optimizing the bandwidth between the MI424 locations and the MoCA 2.0 router. The MoCA 1.1 MI424 Rev.I's will connect with the MoCA 2.0 router at MoCA 1.1 rates.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Heed fcfc2's warning regarding use of that MI424-WI *Rev.B* router as a MoCA adapter:
> ​Another TCFer just faced some hiccups when trying to upgrade their MoCA network with MoCA 1.0 devices still connected. See here.
> 
> I'd think it worthwhile to replace that Rev.B with a second Rev.I -- noting that even the Rev.I is only MoCA 1.1, so you wouldn't be optimizing the bandwidth between the MI424 locations and the MoCA 2.0 router. The MoCA 1.1 MI424 Rev.I's will connect with the MoCA 2.0 router at MoCA 1.1 rates.


Thanks for the suggestion. I'm still not sure what causes the V87 error, as I just got the new modem/router and haven't had time to fully re-configure things. Anyone with a Bolt+ that has managed to solve these problems PLEASE post a reply and resolution.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JOSHSKORN said:


> I'll try and explain my network. I don't exactly know where both of the cables come out from so...
> 
> FIOS ONT (Located in my garage) - > ???
> 
> ...


Seems a simple enough setup. Please review the attached diagram to confirm my understanding of the above.


You'll definitely want to locate the "???" split.

Given you're having connectivity issues, I'd recommend upgrading all your splitters to MoCA 2.0-compatible versions. See here, for one source.

The upstairs splitter could be removed if the Mini were to be connected via Ethernet to the MoCA-connected WAP (presumably a Rev.I MI424-WI).

Are you using coax or Ethernet for the WAN connection between the ONT and router?

How close, physically, is the BOLT+ to the router or WAP? (i.e. I'm curious, were it necessary, whether the BOLT+ could be connected via Ethernet to the router or WAP.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JOSHSKORN said:


> I'm still not sure what causes the V87 error, as I just got the new modem/router and haven't had time to fully re-configure things. Anyone with a Bolt+ that has managed to solve these problems PLEASE post a reply and resolution.


http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=11043628


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10799395


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10799395


I'm reading conflicting reports on if the POE Filter does anything for FIOS users due to the ONT, which apparently already does what a filter is suppose to do.

I'm actually looking at this post right now which I found via the post you linked, the author of this post replied in the same thread and linked his post to another post.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10732897#post10732897

I think you've seen it at some point in time. What are your thoughts on it?

Are V87 errors occurring only with 6 Tuner TiVo DVRs? Thought I saw that Roamio Plus & Pro users (both 6 Tuner DVRs) were having issues but seemingly no mention of Roamio (the 4 Tuner model) Users having problems. I could be wrong.

Can you or someone link information on Splitters? I'm at a loss as to why certain ones are better than others.

EDIT: Sorry, Still reading your post from above regarding the link to splitters.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Seems a simple enough setup. Please review the attached diagram to confirm my understanding of the above.
> 
> 
> You'll definitely want to locate the "???" split.
> ...


You are correct on the diagram. I do not have a POE Filter, as I'd heard it was unnecessary with Verizon FiOS.
The first Splitter into my bedroom, I'm not really knowledgeable as to what it is, The second two (splitter that splits to dining room/upstairs) and the splitter upstairs are both this one. As far as the split that probably occurs before my bedroom and the dining room (where you've referenced a conditional POE), I do not know what that splitter is, either. I can tell you that BOTH of these particular splitters were installed in 2008, when I initially had FIOS installed, way before MOCA 2.0 was a standard.

What is the difference between the filter I linked to above (the Amazon link) and the Holland brand you linked to?

My router is connected to the ONT via COAX. I'm not using Ethernet as a connection between the ONT and router.

Both my router and the WAP are in a shelf in the closet. My WAP is an ASUS RT-AC87U. I don't see how the WAP would have any affect since my Bolt+ and Minis are connected via COAX. My Bolt+ is on the other side of the bedroom, I'd say at least 20ft away.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

JOSHSKORN said:


> I'm reading conflicting reports on if the POE Filter does anything for FIOS users due to the ONT, which apparently already does what a filter is suppose to do.
> 
> I'm actually looking at this post right now which I found via the post you linked, the author of this post replied in the same thread and linked his post to another post.
> 
> ...


You can read all the conflicting posts in the world but the facts are exactly the same as I have stated. The ONT transitions coax to fiber and in that transition, the MoCA LAN frequencies are simply not detected and go nowhere, since that is the case, there are no security or interference issues from the MoCA LAN on Fios, hence the "MoCA POE filter not needed". Although it is not needed for the typical purposes of security and to prevent interference on cable company or neighboring equipment this limited "advice" ignores a secondary benefit of using a MoCA filter to provide a "reflective" boost the MoCA LAN frequencies. Snerd a knowledgeable gent with degree in RF Engineering, describes this boost as "substantial".
Since your problems seem to have arrived after you installed your new Bolt+ one would suspect that this has something to do with the failure but it is also possible that it is just coincidental. 
The more clear information you can provide the greater the probability of a successful outcome.
Is your current network configured as in the diagram KR has kindly provided?
Are you using a Fios router, which one?
How did you enable the network on your new Bolt, to "create a MoCA network" or "connect to a MoCA network"?
Have you confirmed that all your Tivo devices are activated on the same Tivo account?
Splitters, MoCA was designed to work with "most" splitters which were in use at the time of it's development. However, things have evolved over time and currently only 2 readily available brands of splitters carry a "MoCA rating", these are the Verizon and Holland brands. The consensus on these forums is that folks have the best success using one of these 2 brands. The theory being that these brands have lower isolation at the MoCA frequencies to allow them to pass more easily.
Beware, simply adding "MoCA" or "MoCA compatible" to a products description does not translated to MoCA rated, but many manufacturers now use this terminology in their products descriptions, it is a meaningless marketing term.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> You can read all the conflicting posts in the world but the facts are exactly the same as I have stated. The ONT transitions coax to fiber and in that transition, the MoCA LAN frequencies are simply not detected and go nowhere, since that is the case, there are no security or interference issues from the MoCA LAN on Fios, hence the "MoCA POE filter not needed". Although it is not needed for the typical purposes of security and to prevent interference on cable company or neighboring equipment this limited "advice" ignores a secondary benefit of using a MoCA filter to provide a "reflective" boost the MoCA LAN frequencies. Snerd a knowledgeable gent with degree in RF Engineering, describes this boost as "substantial".
> Since your problems seem to have arrived after you installed your new Bolt+ one would suspect that this has something to do with the failure but it is also possible that it is just coincidental.
> The more clear information you can provide the greater the probability of a successful outcome.
> Is your current network configured as in the diagram KR has kindly provided?
> ...


Thank you for your information. I will not take that lightly. In other words, I'll go ahead and do further research on my two mystery splitters that were installed in 2008, one of which is in my bedroom splitting the connection between router and Bolt+ and the other is more than likely that mystery split I spoke of earlier. Ill also order a filter. Yes, the diagram was accurate. Mind you, the other two splits, I referenced which splitter I used in a previous reply. According to reviews, the splitters I used worked for Tivo/Fios. What I don't know, is the "MOCA rating". The reviews I read did not comment as to which MOCA revision was being targeted (1.0, 1.1, 2.0). When I connected the devices, I did use the CONNECT TO MOCA on all three devices.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I removed the POE filter and I ran new rg6 cables to my Bolt+ and one of my mini's. I ran the new cables because the old cables I replaced had coax couplers on them joining the rg6 cables to those boxed and I thought that might be an issue. Those cables were too short and the coupler was used to extend the cable. I've not seen the V87 error again yet since doing this.


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> I removed the POE filter and I ran new rg6 cables to my Bolt+ and one of my mini's. I ran the new cables because the old cables I replaced had coax couplers on them joining the rg6 cables to those boxed and I thought that might be an issue. Those cables were too short and the coupler was used to extend the cable. I've not seen the V87 error again yet since doing this.


How long has it been since the install? I'll research cables. Not sure how feasible installing new cables is for me.

EDIT: In 2008 when I had FiOS installed, would Verizon had installed RG6 cabling or RG59 or something else?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> I removed the POE filter and I ran new rg6 cables to my Bolt+ and one of my mini's. I ran the new cables because the old cables I replaced had coax couplers on them joining the rg6 cables to those boxed and I thought that might be an issue. Those cables were too short and the coupler was used to extend the cable. I've not seen the V87 error again yet since doing this.


That's interesting, though I wonder if the issue was the replaced cables or if the couplers, themselves, played a role. Can you say whether the replaced cables were RG6 or other?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> How long has it been since the install? I'll research cables. Not sure how feasible installing new cables is for me.
> 
> EDIT: In 2008 when I had FiOS installed, would Verizon had installed RG6 cabling or RG59 or something else?


It would have been RG6. RG6 has been used for a very long time now.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JOSHSKORN said:


> How long has it been since the install? I'll research cables. Not sure how feasible installing new cables is for me.


The splitters and PoE MoCA filter should remain the short-term focus, and I remain curious as to what your Minis report for MoCA stats with the coax plant as-is.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> That's interesting, though I wonder if the issue was the replaced cables or if the couplers, themselves, played a role. Can you say whether the replaced cables were RG6 or other?


The cables I replaced were rg6 as well. I installed them about 10 years ago. The reason they were short is because they were the only cables I had at the time. So I used what I had. and coupled a few together.

On a hunch I just went ahead and replaced the cables just to rule out the couplers/cables being the problem. I figured what can it hurt.

So far so good...


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> That's interesting, though I wonder if the issue was the replaced cables or if the couplers, themselves, played a role. Can you say whether the replaced cables were RG6 or other?


I'd say the couplers myself. The cables looked fine with no cuts or anything. Terminators were good too.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> I'd say the couplers myself. The cables looked fine with no cuts or anything. Terminators were good too.


Do you still have the couplers, or did you toss 'em? (I'd be interested in paying shipping to test 'em.)

p.s. Your problem/resolution reminded me of another recent thread, here, where the issue was found to be a poorly installed F-connector: https://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb//showthread.php?t=543114


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

So here's an update. I FINALLY had a chance to plug my TiVo mini back in, I never got rid of my main Verizon DVR just in case. I'd been busy. Anyway...TWO things are different about my network, now. They are:

Different Router - Upgraded to the Quantum FiOS Router from the Actiontec Rev. I. Oddly enough, with the Actiontec Rev. I, the Tivo Minis never "just worked". They kept throwing errors, I forgot the code or codes, it must've been v77 and/or C139, which was resolved by opening ports. My Tivo Minis "just worked" without any port configuration, now that I'm using the FiOS Quantum Router.
I changed out one of the splitters. I think I'd mentioned this in an earlier reply.
@krkaufman Question: On Network Status, there are four different groups. How would I know which one to look at? I think it's separated by MAC address, but none of the addresses match what it states the MAC address to be towards the top of that page. I also do not understand why there are 4 sections listed when I'm currently using three devices. Maybe it still stores my old Bolt (which is no longer connected) and I need to do a C&D to get rid of it?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> I removed the POE filter and I ran new rg6 cables to my Bolt+ and one of my mini's. I ran the new cables because the old cables I replaced had coax couplers on them joining the rg6 cables to those boxed and I thought that might be an issue. Those cables were too short and the coupler was used to extend the cable. I've not seen the V87 error again yet since doing this.


Didn't last too long as I got a V87 today on one of my mini's. I'm going to call TiVo again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Do you still have the couplers, or did you toss 'em? (I'd be interested in paying shipping to test 'em.)
> 
> p.s. Your problem/resolution reminded me of another recent thread, here, where the issue was found to be a poorly installed F-connector: https://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb//showthread.php?t=543114


I tossed'em sorry. But my v87 error has returned on one of my mini's

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> Didn't last too long as I got a V87 today on one of my mini's. I'm going to call TiVo again.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I THINK I got rid of my V87 errors but it's too early to tell. I simply replaced splitters. No POE filter. Unfortunately after a day of it being hooked back up, I've uncovered another error that I will be creating a topic on, shortly. If you or anyone can assist, I'd appreciate it. It's V58. If you happen to have a solution for it, let me know, but on the new topic.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> I THINK I got rid of my V87 errors but it's too early to tell. I simply replaced splitters. No POE filter. Unfortunately after a day of it being hooked back up, I've uncovered another error that I will be creating a topic on, shortly. If you or anyone can assist, I'd appreciate it. It's V58. If you happen to have a solution for it, let me know, but on the new topic.


I already replaced the splitter with one I got from Verizon. It has their branding on it and it says moca 2.0. I've ran new RG6 cables.

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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> I already replaced the splitter with one I got from Verizon. It has their branding on it and it says moca 2.0. I've ran new RG6 cables.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


What router are you using? Maybe also look into the RCA splitters I'm using even though they're pricey and at least one person has linked me to much less expensive splitters...HOLLAND brand I think. It's somewhere in this thread.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> What router are you using? Maybe also look into the RCA splitters I'm using even though they're pricey and at least one person has linked me to much less expensive splitters...HOLLAND brand I think. It's somewhere in this thread.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I don't use the FiOS router. I bought a Amplifi Router/WiFi setup.

Can you link me to the RCA splitter?


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> I don't use the FiOS router. I bought a Amplifi Router/WiFi setup.
> 
> Can you link me to the RCA splitter?


Here you go. RCA DH24SPF Two Way 3 Ghz Bi-Di Splitter

I'll send you a PM in a minute.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

TiVo support says I need a splitter that is rated to 2GHz. Mine is rated at 1675MHz. So I'll give that a try


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

What I can tell you, is that the splitter I replaced (installed by DirectTV) is the MSPLITZR1-03. It says "2 - 2150MHz" on it, also has the label *SWM* on it. Not sure what that means in splitter lingo and how that applies to any sort of difference maker in ridding myself of the V87 error.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> What I can tell you, is that the splitter I replaced (installed by DirectTV) is the MSPLITZR1-03. It says "2 - 2150MHz" on it, also has the label *SWM* on it. Not sure what that means in splitter lingo and how that applies to any sort of difference maker in ridding myself of the V87 error.


I know for sure that directv splitter won't work with cable/Fios. I think it carries power

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## DeltaOne (Sep 29, 2013)

tazzmission said:


> I know for sure that directv splitter won't work with cable/Fios. I think it carries power


I know someone that just this week switched from Direct TV to cable and a Roamio Plus with two Mini's. The Roamio started working without any problem, but the Mini's couldn't connect to the Roamio. We replaced his 5 to 1000 MHz splitter with a 5 to 2000 MHz model and the Mini's connected right away. The new 5 to 2000 MHz splitter does pass power -- it's all they had in stock at Home Depot.

I don't know if the splitter that can carry power poses a problem, but it did work with his TiVo equipment. I suspect it won't cause a problem since there's no equipment on his system that is injecting power on to the coax network.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hi guys,
I am reading a lot of speculation in this thread that has been covered many times before. Regarding splitters which are the most successful with MoCA setups, the "MoCA rated" splitters from Verizon and Holland which show the "MoCA" on the label and specify 5-1675MGz are the ones with the greatest success. The marketing theory behind this is that these were designed to have lower port isolation at the MoCA frequencies. A few years back, I tested several brands of splitters measuring actual MoCA throughput, they all "worked", but at that time the Verizon MoCA 2.0 rated splitters had the highest throughput of any by about 5%.
Since MoCA has become increasing popular with whole home DVR applications the splitter manufacturers have picked up and this and started adding "MoCA" or "MoCA compatible" in there product descriptions. These in most cases were the same splitters they had been selling before adding these adjectives. A new splitter from any brand is more likely to pass MoCA successfully simply because it has newer components and contacts and likely has been designed to pass higher frequencies successfully.
The thing is MoCA was developed and implemented to work with the equipment which was widely used at the time, and in most cases it did even with very old sub 1GHz splitters and when it did not, the remedial step was to upgrade the splitters to "new" ones which at the time were mostly the 5-1002MGz ones. The only splitters rated higher than these were the ones designed for satellite systems and these also worked in my speed tests and actually the Directv SWM green label 2.1GHz splitters were the 2nd best in transfer speed. Power passing is a non-issue on the splitters as there are virtually no coax power equipment used on cable tv systems.
Any splitter can be bad or go bad over time particularily if exposed to the elements. The recommendation is to try what you have first, if you have a failure or poor performance with MoCA and consider upgrading your splitters go for the Verizon or Holland MoCA rated ones. 
One of the main problems with MoCA is that in many homes, the coax runs are not "homerun" but a series of cascading splitters, often as many as 3-4+. If you put enough splitters in line, the total loss can exceed the MoCA equipments ability to overcome it no matter what brand or how well they were engineered to perform with MoCA. Look to see it you can streamline out as many splits as possible.
Also, consider the coax connectors and make sure you have the compression type on all connections, not the older crimp on or worse yet, the twist on connectors.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi guys,
> I am reading a lot of speculation in this thread that has been covered many times before. Regarding splitters which are the most successful with MoCA setups, the "MoCA rated" splitters from Verizon and Holland which show the "MoCA" on the label and specify 5-1675MGz are the ones with the greatest success. The marketing theory behind this is that these were designed to have lower port isolation at the MoCA frequencies. A few years back, I tested several brands of splitters measuring actual MoCA throughput, they all "worked", but at that time the Verizon MoCA 2.0 rated splitters had the highest throughput of any by about 5%.
> Since MoCA has become increasing popular with whole home DVR applications the splitter manufacturers have picked up and this and started adding "MoCA" or "MoCA compatible" in there product descriptions. These in most cases were the same splitters they had been selling before adding these adjectives. A new splitter from any brand is more likely to pass MoCA successfully simply because it has newer components and contacts and likely has been designed to pass higher frequencies successfully.
> The thing is MoCA was developed and implemented to work with the equipment which was widely used at the time, and in most cases it did even with very old sub 1GHz splitters and when it did not, the remedial step was to upgrade the splitters to "new" ones which at the time were mostly the 5-1002MGz ones. The only splitters rated higher than these were the ones designed for satellite systems and these also worked in my speed tests and actually the Directv SWM green label 2.1GHz splitters were the 2nd best in transfer speed. Power passing is a non-issue on the splitters as there are virtually no coax power equipment used on cable tv systems.
> ...


In my setup I have one Verizon 5-1675mhz splitter inside the house, no other splitters anywhere. I am experiencing random v87 errors on my mini's. TiVo said I have to use a 5-2GHz splitter which I will try today.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I installed a 5-2GHz splitter and I am still seeing v87 errors on my mini's


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> I installed a 5-2GHz splitter and I am still seeing v87 errors on my mini's
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


What splitters are you using?

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> What splitters are you using?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


This one

Rocketfish™ - 3-Way Coaxial Splitter - Gold

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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> This one
> 
> Rocketfish™ - 3-Way Coaxial Splitter - Gold
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Look at the Q&A on it. I'm not liking what I'm seeing, granted, I don't know enough to begin with.

One answer "claims" this splitter isn't "Bidirectional". The 2-way splitter I got, IS. I noticed on the description, mine is labeled "Bi-Di".

I did some searching around, and if you want to just take a shot in the dark and try this, it's your money and obviously totally up to you. But, I found a splitter, similar to mine, that is a FOUR way splitter, not THREE, like you're using. I couldn't find a 3-way splitter.

The Part # on my splitter is DH24SPF. The one I found is DH44SPF. I noticed that the first number differs so I thought I'd just search for DH34SPF. Nothing came up. Both the splitters I use and the 4-way splitter I found are both 3GHz. Is it worth another $15 or so investment to give it a shot? That's up to you. If the splitter is outdoors, definitely find a way to "cap" the unused split. Whatever you decide to try, post back and let us know.

https://www.amazon.com/RCA-DH44SPF-4-Way-Splitter/dp/B004VN08LS/

Edit: Be advised, I'm finding that there's a DH44SPF (at 3Ghz) and a DH44SP (at 2.4Ghz). I'm not sure why one would be better than the other in any given situation or if they're both "sufficient".


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I realy don't think the answer is another splitter. When I had my Roamio Pro I was using the 5-1GHz splitter that Verizon installed a few years back and I had zero errors. It is something with the Bolt+.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Well, I decided to give TiVo a call again today since I am still getting V87 errors. Not a lot of them but I still see them every other day or so. We checked the Bolt+ diagnostics screen and they asked for the signal strength and SNR numbers. All tuners read 100% signal strength and 41-42 dB SNR. TiVo told me that the signal is too "hot" or high and that the SNR numbers should be between 32-36. I was told to call Verizon and have them come out to the house and "lower" the signal strength to get the SNR numbers within that range. They will be here Saturday. I'll report back if this does anything to correct the V87 error.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tazzmission said:


> Well, I decided to give TiVo a call again today since I am still getting V87 errors. Not a lot of them but I still see them every other day or so. We checked the Bolt+ diagnostics screen and they asked for the signal strength and SNR numbers. All tuners read 100% signal strength and 41-42 dB SNR. TiVo told me that the signal is too "hot" or high and that the SNR numbers should be between 32-36. I was told to call Verizon and have them come out to the house and "lower" the signal strength to get the SNR numbers within that range. They will be here Saturday. I'll report back if this does anything to correct the V87 error.


Not trying to discourage you, but SNR issues are the toughest to fix.

Most likely, Verizon people will tell you your SNRs are fine, as measured by their instruments. You will be left to your own devices. Attenuators will then be your only hope. Sorry


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

thyname said:


> Not trying to discourage you, but SNR issues are the toughest to fix.
> 
> Most likely, Verizon people will tell you your SNRs are fine, as measured by their instruments. You will be left to your own devices. Attenuators will then be your only hope. Sorry


If that is the case it might be time for a refund on the Bolt+ and my all in service and switch to the Verizon equipment. As much as I don't want to do that.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> If that is the case it might be time for a refund on the Bolt+ and my all in service and switch to the Verizon equipment. As much as I don't want to do that.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Verizon was to be here on Saturday but no showed.

I just changed the splitter again with a GE model that says 5-2500MHz on it. Let's see how that goes.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazz, have you tried changing the MoCA channel at which your MoCA network is operating? What do the diagnostics report as the current channel number?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> tazz, have you tried changing the MoCA channel at which your MoCA network is operating? What do the diagnostics report as the current channel number?


The diagnostics channel info is for the current "tv channel" that the tuner is tuned to. I've no idea what channel you are referring to here and how to change that. Can you give me some detail?

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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tazzmission said:


> Verizon was to be here on Saturday but no showed.


Not surprised. Verizon systems completely suck. The techs too. Most arrogant pricks I have ever dealt with of all telco and satellite companies. Union members and all. Lazy bastards. At least here in NoVa. YMMV


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> The diagnostics channel info is for the current "tv channel" that the tuner is tuned to. I've no idea what channel you are referring to here and how to change that. Can you give me some detail?


I believe the MoCA channel may be listed in the network details dialog, but I can't verify as I'm away from my TiVos, at present.

You *should* be able to determine the current MoCA channel by reviewing the MoCA stats on the Minis, per the info on this page:

See: Checking MoCA connection quality (and other info)​
e.g. see attached pic for example diagnostics info...


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

It's on channel 15


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

So it sounds like tweaking the MoCA channel is something that hasn't been attempted, yet, so it may be worth a try. Basically, you'll need to change your MoCA bridge to use a specific MoCA channel number, rather than letting it decide for itself. I need to do a quick review of your setup... right back.

edit: p.s. It's not a complete shot-in-the-dark. I've heard of others resolving MoCA issues by bumping their MoCA channel up, but a recent post over on the official TiVo support forums provided a current example and success story:

See: v87 errors on Minis -- Fixed by changing MoCA channel​


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

The goal is to put some distance between the MoCA network and the TV signal, but keeping in mind that the higher you go in the channel list, the more attenuation the MoCA signal will experience. (There's higher loss as frequencies increase.) The MoCA channels range from 15-29, odd numbers only, associated with the center frequencies for each of these non-overlapping 50 MHz-wide channels:

15: 1150 MHz (1125-1175 MHz)
17: 1200 MHz (1175-1225 MHz)
19: 1250 MHz (etc)
21: 1300 MHz
23: 1350 MHz
25: 1400 MHz
27: 1450 Mhz
29: 1500 MHz​


tazzmission said:


> My TiVo Bolt+ is doing the Moca bridge.


So, you should be able to go into your BOLT+'s Network Settings and modify the default MoCA network setup, configuring a manual MoCA channel. You could start with MoCA channel 23, and then jump above and below until you hopefully find a channel that provides a more stable V87-less connection. (The lower the channel number the better, but with the knowledge that things aren't working too well at channel 15 -- though perhaps coincidentally, until proven otherwise.)

After changing the BOLT+'s MoCA channel, you'll likely need to reboot your Minis, and possibly even manually reconfigure their MoCA settings (though if they're set to 'Auto' channel they should be able to find the BOLT+ MoCA bridge after the Mini reboots).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI... User on TiVo Help Forum says their setup is still working, V87-free, after modifying their MoCA channel.
-----
pappasc November 21, 2016 4:23 PM | #7

*Yup, still working flawlessly. * Thanks!
-----​


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Since I swapped the splitter out for the 3rd time I have not had any studdering video or any V87 errors on my mini's. It's a 5-2500mhz GE 4 way splitter I got at Walmart. I only use 3 ports and I have a cap on the 4th.

Knocks on wood...


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> Since I swapped the splitter out for the 3rd time I have not had any studdering video or any V87 errors on my mini's. It's a 5-2500mhz GE 4 way splitter I got at Walmart. I only use 3 ports and I have a cap on the 4th.
> 
> Knocks on wood...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Got my first V87 error today on this new splitter. I changed the Moca channel to 23. I'll test this and report back.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> Got my first V87 error today on this new splitter. I changed the Moca channel to 23. I'll test this and report back.


Any improvements with the V87 situation?


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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> Any improvements with the V87 situation?


I would "assume" no news is good news. But in the meantime, I'll report on mine. The splitter that I'd been using is STILL working just fine. No MOCA channel adjustments needed. I've had other errors, though but they were unrelated and solved.

_For inquiring minds:_
*V53 (on Bolt+ and Minis)* - Solved by a new CableCard and connecting via chat to Fontier Support to pair the cable card to my Bolt+
*C421 & C422 on Minis* - There was an update on the Bolt+ that broke connectivity between the Minis and the Bolt+. Restarting the Bolt+ resolved these errors on the Minis.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> Got my first V87 error today on this new splitter. I changed the Moca channel to 23. I'll test this and report back.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Since changing the moca channel I've not had any V87 errors. However my Bolt got a software upgrade recently and I'm now getting the errors again. I thought maybe it reverted back to the default channel. So I went to look And the settings for changing the moca channel are now gone.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> Since changing the moca channel I've not had any V87 errors. However my Bolt got a software upgrade recently and I'm now getting the errors again. I thought maybe it reverted back to the default channel. So I went to look And the settings for changing the moca channel are now gone.


This is new info, to me; wish I'd noticed that when I had my loaner BOLT from Best Buy.

The latest update overhauled more of the BOLT's UI, to upgrade more of the menu system to the HD UI. Unfortunately, the MoCA setup has been a victim on a couple fronts:

establishing a MoCA network using a BOLT incorrectly triggers a C33 error dialog
MoCA statistics & details are missing from the network status screen
What happens if you disable MoCA, shutting down the bridge, and then go right back in to create the MoCA network? Are the MoCA customization options available, then?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> I thought maybe it reverted back to the default channel. So I went to look And the settings for changing the moca channel are now gone.


You could check the current MoCA channel from a MoCA-connected Mini's network status dialog. (see here)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI... A worthwhile read for any FiOS customer: 

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252FTivo%252Fcomments%252F5ld104%252F
​
p.s. WHOA! Didn't expect the whole Reddit post to auto-embed. TCF site admins must be working overtime.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> You could check the current MoCA channel from a MoCA-connected Mini's network status dialog. (see here)


Thanks, yes it has reverted back to channel 15. I am not sure how to change it on the Bolt now that the setting is gone

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> I am not sure how to chance in on the Bolt now that the setting is gone


What happens if you disable MoCA on the BOLT, shutting down the BOLT's built-in bridge, and then go right back in to the BOLT's setup to create the MoCA network? Are the MoCA customization options available, then, on initialization?

(Just be prepared for the erroneous C33 error message from the BOLT on creation of your MoCA network.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> Thanks, yes *it has reverted back to channel 15*. I am not sure how to change it on the Bolt now that *the setting is gone*


Both of those are worthy bug reports. [email protected]


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Both of those are worthy bug reports. [email protected]


I see you reported it here.
BOLT BUG: Updated HD UI on BOLT incorrectly reporting C33 er | TiVo Troubleshooting | TiVo Help Forums


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

> How do I report a bug to TiVo? Is that an email address [email protected]?


Heh, no that was just shorthand: shaking my head at TiVo for some ridiculously sloppy bugs. (very confusing shorthand, I now realize)

The only official avenue I'm aware of for reporting bugs is via the phone support line. I just posted the above info to TiVo's user forum since I don't actually own a BOLT and so don't have "standing" to file an official grievance (lacking any ability to test any fix or workarounds).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

p.s. You might also notice the dead silence in that TiVo user forum bug post of mine from the TiVo side of the fence. I have zero expectations that TiVo would take any action based on that post.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I'm now getting multiple V87 errors on my minis daily. I can't change the moca channel. I'm about to call FiOS and and go back to using their router and use it as the moca bridge to see if my errors go away. I'd just disable the wifi in their router and use my Amplifi mesh wifi system that I'm using now without their router. I really don't want to have to do that though.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Have you received any feedback from TiVo Support on the MoCA channel customization issue/bug?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Have you received any feedback from TiVo Support on the MoCA channel customization issue/bug?


I have not had time to call them yet. Today is probably not the day to call either being a Sunday

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> I have not had time to call them yet. Today is probably not the day to call either being a Sunday
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I am on the line with TiVo support now. They are useless. I asked to be transferred to a technical person at a higher level. All they want me to do it repeat guided setup on the minis which I've done a number of times already.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I just don't understand how this MoCA menu c*ck-up isn't a bigger deal.

You could always try sending your TSNs to TiVo Margret, since she was asking for them from anyone who might benefit from an earlier beta release of their next update, RC13. (Who knows, maybe they have a fix for the MoCA menus...)


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> I just don't understand how this MoCA menu c*ck-up isn't a bigger deal.
> 
> You could always try sending your TSNs to TiVo Margret, since she was asking for them from anyone who might benefit from an earlier beta release of their next update, RC13. (Who knows, maybe they have a fix for the MoCA menus...)


They transferred me to a "manager" who was no help whatsoever. Told me he will escalate and have someone call me Monday or Tuesday. Maybe I'll contact Margaret on twitter or Facebook at this point.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> I just don't understand how this MoCA menu c*ck-up isn't a bigger deal.
> 
> You could always try sending your TSNs to TiVo Margret, since she was asking for them from anyone who might benefit from an earlier beta release of their next update, RC13. (Who knows, maybe they have a fix for the MoCA menus...)


They transferred me to a "manager" who was no help whatsoever. Told me he will escalate and have someone call me Monday or Tuesday. Maybe I'll contact Margaret on twitter or Facebook at this point.

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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> They transferred me to a "manager" who was no help whatsoever. Told me he will escalate and have someone call me Monday or Tuesday. Maybe I'll contact Margaret on twitter or Facebook at this point.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


So wait...you swapped out splitters and still have V87 errors? Are you on Fios? If so, how old is your ONT?

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> So wait...you swapped out splitters and still have V87 errors? Are you on Fios? If so, how old is your ONT?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Correct, FiOS customer for 5 years or so now. Original ONT

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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> Correct, FiOS customer for 5 years or so now. Original ONT
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Have you researched the ONT you have? I know there was a change more recently in ONTs, as in the last 5 years. Mine from 2008 died and they replaced it in 2015 with a newer model. You might want to look into that if you haven't already.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> Have you researched the ONT you have? I know there was a change more recently in ONTs, as in the last 5 years. Mine from 2008 died and they replaced it in 2015 with a newer model. You might want to look into that if you haven't already.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk



















Here is the ONT I have. It says it was made 9-2012

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> Here is the ONT I have. It says it was made 9-2012
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I made a call to Verizon. A technician will be out on Tuesday to look at my connection and my ONT.

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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> I made a call to Verizon. A technician will be out on Tuesday to look at my connection and my ONT.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Here's what I was getting at. First all, i'm unable to get to my ONT at the moment due to too much junk in my garage, but from what I remember, I think it's a Motorola. Also, there are different types of ONTS, basically separated into two different categories. I suspected my initial ONT was BPON, and my newer one is GPON. I never really figured out how to open up the front door of it and look, though. Take a look at this list: What are the different models of ONTs? Verizon FiOS FAQ | DSLReports, ISP Information

Unfortunately, I cannot absolutely pinpoint the exact resolution of my V87 issues, but what I can safely say is that I had my current ONT long before I started in with TIVO. I basically replaced my router with the Quantum Gateway router (I think it's a G1100), did not even configure any ports, just plugged it in and it all worked, and simultaneously replaced the splitters, too. So, it probably wasn't the ONT in my case, maybe the splitters or the router. The reason I bring up the ONT is, since it IS MOCA, it would sort of make sense to me to ensure that the MOCA device supports MOCA 2.0, granted the Tivo Minis do not. The Bolt/Bolt+ do. What I'm thinking is, doing what you can to maximize the throughput. I've also seen reports of swapping out your ONT fixing some issues (although I forgot if they're related to V87 errors or not, maybe search this thread again to see if someone reported something found on reddit or somewhere else related to V87 errors).


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> Here's what I was getting at. First all, i'm unable to get to my ONT at the moment due to too much junk in my garage, but from what I remember, I think it's a Motorola. Also, there are different types of ONTS, basically separated into two different categories. I suspected my initial ONT was BPON, and my newer one is GPON. I never really figured out how to open up the front door of it and look, though. Take a look at this list: What are the different models of ONTs? Verizon FiOS FAQ | DSLReports, ISP Information
> 
> Unfortunately, I cannot absolutely pinpoint the exact resolution of my V87 issues, but what I can safely say is that I had my current ONT long before I started in with TIVO. I basically replaced my router with the Quantum Gateway router (I think it's a G1100), did not even configure any ports, just plugged it in and it all worked, and simultaneously replaced the splitters, too. So, it probably wasn't the ONT in my case, maybe the splitters or the router. The reason I bring up the ONT is, since it IS MOCA, it would sort of make sense to me to ensure that the MOCA device supports MOCA 2.0, granted the Tivo Minis do not. The Bolt/Bolt+ do. What I'm thinking is, doing what you can to maximize the throughput. I've also seen reports of swapping out your ONT fixing some issues (although I forgot if they're related to V87 errors or not, maybe search this thread again to see if someone reported something found on reddit or somewhere else related to V87 errors).


I don't use the Verizon router. My ONT has been switched to Ethernet for at least 3 years. I used the quantum gateway for about the first year of being with Verizon. I switched to use my own router. So in my case the Bolt is my moca bridge. I use Ubiquiti Networks Wifi mesh system called Amplifi as my router and wifi access points. Prior to Amplifi I used an Apple Airport router and a Roamio Pro and I never had any V87 errors. I got the bolt+ and the Amplifi system around the same time/

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## JOSHSKORN (Aug 27, 2015)

tazzmission said:


> I don't use the Verizon router. My ONT has been switched to Ethernet for at least 3 years. I used the quantum gateway for about the first year of being with Verizon. I switched to use my own router. So in my case the Bolt is my moca bridge. I use Ubiquiti Networks Wifi mesh system called Amplifi as my router and wifi access points. Prior to Amplifi I used an Apple Airport router and a Roamio Pro and I never had any V87 errors. I got the bolt+ and the Amplifi system around the same time/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Maybe it's the new system, not the Bolt+. I'm not familiar with it, though. Are all of the necessary ports open? Do you still have the Fios quantum router just to test out?

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

JOSHSKORN said:


> Maybe it's the new system, not the Bolt+. I'm not familiar with it, though. Are all of the necessary ports open? Do you still have the Fios quantum router just to test out?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


The Amplifi router is not doing anything but bridging the moca network to the internet. I also had Eero prior to Amplifi and was getting the same v87 errors on the mini's. I do still have the quantum gateway router. I really don't want to go back to using it as the moca bridge because Verizon will charge me $6 a month even though I own the router. But I can set it up again and test if I still get errors.

And I was using Eero with my Roamio Pro and mini's with no errors.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> The Amplifi router is not doing anything but bridging the moca network to the internet. I also had Eero prior to Amplifi and was getting the same v87 errors on the mini's. I do still have the quantum gateway router. I really don't want to go back to using it as the moca bridge because Verizon will charge me $6 a month even though I own the router. But I can set it up again and test if I still get errors.
> 
> And I was using Eero with my Roamio Pro and mini's with no errors.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

The Verizon tech installed a POE filter because he said it is needed if the ONT is using Ethernet. I am using Ethernet since I have my own router and I don't use the Verizon router. He said using Ethernet instead of coax from the ONT will introduce line noise and might cause the errors I am seeing. He also installed a Verizon branded splitter since he said he is required to do so.

He said my signal is fine and my ONT is also fine.

We shall see how it goes.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Fingers-crossed... though it may well do the trick, since the MoCA filter should effectively eliminate the noise that bumping the MoCA channel up was intended to avoid. (Though I thought you'd already tried a MoCA filter between the ONT and the first splitter; might be getting my threads mixed-up.)

p.s. Adding the MoCA filter would also be similar to this poster's recent fix for their V87 woes, though you wouldn't be able to go to that extreme, owing to still needing the TV signal.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Fingers-crossed... though it may well do the trick, since the MoCA filter should effectively eliminate the noise that bumping the MoCA channel up was intended to avoid. (Though I thought you'd already tried a MoCA filter between the ONT and the first splitter; might be getting my threads mixed-up.)


I did try a filter that I bought on Amazon but it did not seem to do a thing. The filter he installed is Verizon branded so maybe there is a difference. I don't know. He did say he does not know for sure if this will do anything but that the filter is needed if you use Ethernet from the ONT.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> He did say he does not know for sure if this will do anything but that the filter is needed if you use Ethernet from the ONT.


That doesn't make a ton of sense, since the Ethernet WAN connection is just supplanting the coax MoCA WAN connection, which operates at 975-1025 MHz ... below the stop-band for a MoCA filter (1125-3000 MHz) ... unless disabling the MoCA WAN on the ONT creates extra, unexpected noise at the higher frequencies. Oh well...


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> That doesn't make a ton of sense, since the Ethernet WAN connection is just supplanting the coax MoCA WAN connection, which operates at 975-1025 MHz ... below the stop-band for a MoCA filter (1125-3000 MHz) ... unless disabling the MoCA WAN on the ONT creates extra, unexpected noise at the higher frequencies. Oh well...


We will see how it goes from here, I'll report back.

I reported the missing moca channel option on the Bolt to TiVo and I'm told I will get a call back today on that. We shall see.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI... Interesting post just made to the official TiVo forums by a user who began suffering continual V87 errors of late...

-------------------------------
January 12, 2017 6:10 PM | #4

Just got the fix and my mini is now working!

To start you would unplug the mini from power. Leave it disconnected for now. On the Roamio go from TiVo Central>Apps and Games. We're looking for the allow/disable home network applications option. It should be allowed so if it says "allow home network applications" go ahead and do so, if it says "disable home network applications" go ahead and disallow then reallow the network applications. Once that is done force a connection to TiVo service by going from TiVo Central>Settings and Messages>Settings>Network>Connect to TiVo Service Now. Restart the mini after that and we'll check for this issue again.

Those are the instructions from support. I also restarted my roamio before forcing the connection to tivo just in case. Then plugged in the mini and forced to connect and voila it works!

Re:Roamio Plus and Mini connection drops V87 after update | TiVo Troubleshooting | TiVo Help Forums​


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I just tried the fix above. Seemed to help right away.
But
After One hour the issue returned. No fix
I am going to try better Moca splitters and better Coax next.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

scottchez said:


> I am going to try better Moca splitters and better Coax next.


While waiting for parts, another thing you could throw at it...


> One of the first remedies to try would be identifying the MoCA channel on which your network is currently operating (also viewed through the above network status screen), and adjust it northward if running at a lower channel (e.g. 15, 17). See the following threads for additional information, noting that changing the operating MoCA channel resolved V87 errors for at least these two cases, recently.
> 
> Changing to MoCA channel 27 ... resolved V87 errors (no issues since making the change on Nov 7)
> 
> ...


p.s. I can't say what's available for channel selection on a MoCA 2.0 BOLT.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

HOW TO REPRODUCE
===============
After much testing I have found steps to make it happen more often.

1. Watch Live TV on The Bolt Plus, and BOTH Minis
2. On the first Mini Put it to Standby
3. Go check the 2nd Mini, in most cases you will get v87 Lost Connection errors in about 1 to 5 mins almost every time, if not repeat till you do

In some cases while the 1st one is in Standby the 2nd will will repeat the v87 over and over every 5 mins even if you go back to Live TV.
THIS IS GOOD, is now I can try new coax new splitters to see if it COAX or a Software issue.

Personal Comments: I wonder if this is a bug, it is almost like the 1st Mini is telling MOCA to go to sleep or standby

MOCA CHANNEL CAN NO LONGER BE CHANGED
===============
Since the last update this can not be change on the BOLT.
I checked and my MOCA is on channel 23, I can not change it
I thought doing the fix from Tivo above would force the system to find a new channel, it came right back with channel 23 again almost like the BOLT is now hard coded to it.

New Splitters coming Thursday
I opened a case with Tivo on line, its been days, what is the typical response time?
Ideas or suggestions?


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

One of my Minis just got RC15 , will test tonight to see if that helps. Other is on RC7


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Still happened but I bet BOTh Minis need to be on RC15 to be a fair test.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Since Verizon installed their splitter and added the moca filter to my ONT I have not seen any V87 errors. Knock on wood, so far so good


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Got new Holland Moca Splitters, it slightly increased the Moca speeds to 280 Mbps but I still have the issue if one is put in Standby or unplugs the other drops.
It is almost like there is a bug in the software, if any device leaves the MOCA network the other Mini Drops.
I tried one Mini on Ehternet and did not have the issue so this must be a MOCA issue.
Anyone else have Two Minis on Moca that you can try putting one in Standbye, then wait 1-5 mins to see if the network is lost with V87 error?


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

New Question:
Is it possible my MOCA Signal is tooo strong and that causes the V87 errors?
One is at -27. TX and the other is at -26. both are doing 280 Mpbs (TX Power Estimate from the Moca screen)
I know on the CATV Signal it is possible to have too strong but that is for QUAM signals this is MOCA

Ideas?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> Since Verizon installed their splitter and added the moca filter to my ONT I have not seen any V87 errors. Knock on wood, so far so good
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I got about 5 v87 errors on one of my mini's today. My Bolt + and both mini's got the R15 update. Not sure if that has anything to do with it.

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

===ROOT CAUSE SOLUTION===
I think the root cause is Tivo Corp removed the option to let you change the MOCA channel to Channel 27 or something that works.

I found that I had some 16 year old builder Grade Coax that was rated at only 1 GHZ.
The Moca standard says most 1 GHZ Coax will work fine, even at the 1.5 GHZ range.
For my case it DID NOT WORK, Lots of V87 errors. Random or when putting one of the MINIs in Stand bye

Solution: I had to run new COAX through the Walls. I used High Quality 3 GHZ Certified COAX just like what Dish Network requires for MOCA runs to the Hoppers. Hmmmmm if Dish requires it maybe Tivo Does also is how I got the idea.

Anyway so far so good, no drops. Will keep testing.

Before I ran the COAX I did connect both MINIs up to the Bolt using short 15 feet Coax no issues so this told me the issue had to be COAX

Not everyone can upgrade their coax but you can check all your connector ends couplers and cable combiners (or what ever there called). Make Darn Sure they are rated for for 2 to 3 GHZ to make sure you can use the Higher MOCA Channels.

===ROOT CAUSE PROOF====
After I had good quality 3 GHZ certified COAX to the MINIs, I then shut down all Minis and the BOLT
I then powered on the BOLT and let it come up.
Then I powered on One MINI, The Bolt detected it could use Channel 27 after the Signal test.
I then powered on the 2nd Mini, everything is now on Channel 27 and working.
There is currently NO way to force the Bolt to Channel 27, so if the BOLT does not auto detect channel 27 is the best channel to use it will stay low like on Channel 15 or 23 as was my case. You can not change it.

WARNING: after a reboot or a Software upgrade that requires a reboot you may find the MOCA channel changing again, this could be why when some get upgrades it breaks so if you have a system working write down the MOCA channel now so you can someday get back to it later. After a reboot the TIvo will try to auto detect the best channel to use again.

Solution: Tivo Corp needs to add back the feature to let the customer change channels ASAP.

Hope this info helps others. Took me weeks working on it every day to figure it out. To me it was just an other Computer Networking issue (which I do for a living). MOCA sure is interesting technology.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

scottchez said:


> ===ROOT CAUSE SOLUTION===
> I think the root cause is Tivo Corp removed the option to let you change the MOCA channel to Channel 27 or something that works.
> 
> I found that I had some 16 year old builder Grade Coax that was rated at only 1 GHZ.
> ...


Changing the moca channel has been the only thing that worked for me consistently. I have a case open with TiVo and I asked about adding back the feature to set the moca channel. I was told I'd get a call back last week which never came. I'll call back again today to escalate.

Contacted Margret on twitter and the book of faces

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> Contacted Margret on twitter and the book of faces


See also electronic mailing: [email protected]


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> See also electronic mailing: [email protected]


I just emailed her as well. Thanks

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> I just emailed her as well. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


No response as of yet and I'm now getting v69 Network is too slow errors as well. Those are new.

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

BAD NEWS - POWER OUTAGE

It is still on Channel 27 but the TX rates and speed has all changed.
I have had 5 Drops in the late 3 hours. Makes it hard to watch a movie.
So bad.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I'm thinking of putting the Fios Quantum Gateway back on my account and using that as the moca bridge. Maybe that will resolve this v87 error issue


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Family wants to go back to Dish tired of V87
Up next, I will run some new high quality CAT 5 ethernet and give up on MOCA for now.
Does not seem usable till a fix it out.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> I'm thinking of putting the Fios Quantum Gateway back on my account and using that as the moca bridge. Maybe that will resolve this v87 error issue
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Edit: I had Verizon turn on the Fios quantum gateway router. I'm now using that for moca. We will see if I still get any errors.

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Trying Ferrite Filters on the Power Cords tonight just in case I got some interference. I keep seeing bad packet errors on the MOCA Status. Has to be inference somewhere , maybe that is causing it , hence the need for everyone to change there MOCA channels like we used to do.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

scottchez said:


> Has to be inference somewhere , maybe that is causing it , hence the need for everyone to change there MOCA channels like we used to do.


I do find it extremely odd that your setup auto-tunes to MoCA channel 27 (if I understood correctly).


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I found a new data point. If you power off the Bolt and the Minis, the system will come back up on MOCA channel 27.
THEN
The next day it is still at channel 27 but the speeds and TX numbers all change, I think I read in the MOCA specs that it will auto tune or adjust.

RESULT- it stops working working again about every hour with the v87 error constant if the other Mini is not on Live TV. Put the other MINI on LIVE TV and it will run all day just fine. Almost like having taking out one of the Live streams causes the issue. 
Wonder if TIVO just increased the time out setting before displaying the v87 error if that would fix it. This has to be a bug.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> Edit: I had Verizon turn on the Fios quantum gateway router. I'm now using that for moca. We will see if I still get any errors.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


So far so good with the FiOS quantum gateway as the moca bridge. But my contract is up with FiOS and they won't give me a very good deal to stay. I found this out when i called to turn the gateway back on. I might be going back to Xfinity here shortly. If so I will be going back to using the Bolt+ as my moca bridge and I will probably opt to buy a cable modem instead of using the XB3 router they provide.

But I did get a call back from TiVo (Margret had someone in Advanced support call me) He said lets see how the FiOS gateway works out and he will call me back Thursday 1-26. He said "there is a way to set a moca channel on the Bolt+" I'm wondering how that is done.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> He said "there is a way to set a moca channel on the Bolt+" I'm wondering how that is done.


Me, too. Though I suspect he's about to become acquainted with the 20.6.3 BOLT HD UI update bugs.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I tried adding splitters and removing splitters to get my MOCA TX Power down to +2
It was - 27 and in some cases -24
With a Two Way splitter its at -14
None of this helped. I thought maybe the signal levels matters like on Cable QAM but no luck here.

I also removed the rest of my home network, Cable modem goes straight to the Bolt. Cable Modem does not have any MOCA support, no help.

I am wondering if have defective hardware or if the bug is in THE BOLT SOFTWARE with RC7 and RC15?

Might try a new Tivo Mini tonight. Issue only seems to happen on just one of the Two MINI which is strange. Tried swapping MINI location and no luck there.

It is hard to troubleshoot as once you unplug or reboot you have to wait 1-2 hours for it to get bad again.

Ideas or suggestions? I really just want to watch TV with out drops. I want MOCA.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

tazzmission said:


> So far so good with the FiOS quantum gateway as the moca bridge. But my contract is up with FiOS and they won't give me a very good deal to stay. I found this out when i called to turn the gateway back on. I might be going back to Xfinity here shortly. If so I will be going back to using the Bolt+ as my moca bridge and I will probably opt to buy a cable modem instead of using the XB3 router they provide.
> 
> But I did get a call back from TiVo (Margret had someone in Advanced support call me) He said lets see how the FiOS gateway works out and he will call me back Thursday 1-26. He said "there is a way to set a moca channel on the Bolt+" I'm wondering how that is done.


Using the FiOS quantum gateway with my netgear orbi mesh router(s) is not ideal for me. The FiOS gateway is using 192 addresses to the coax wired tivos and my netgear orbi is using 10. Addresses. So my tivos can't see anything on my home network. Plex for example does not work in this scenario. I'm going to switch my ONT back to Ethernet and just use my netgear orbi mesh setup again. I'll have TiVo show me how to manually set a moca channel on the Bolt+. (If that is even possible like he said it was)

If manually setting a channel is not possible then I am just going to run Ethernet to my downstairs Mini and use a power line over Ethernet adapter for the upstairs mini until TiVo addresses this issue and adds back the ability to set a channel manually.

I don't think I'm going to switch to xfinity now either as I got an acceptable deal to stay with Verizon now.

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I bet there is a hidden menu under system info where you type some code like
clear clear enter enter zero or some strange combo 
please let me know if they give it to you 
PM me if they don't want the code public plz


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

scottchez said:


> I bet there is a hidden menu under system info where you type some code like
> clear clear enter enter zero or some strange combo
> please let me know if they give it to you
> PM me if they don't want the code public plz


I will share it with anyone who wants it. I just got off the phone with Verizon and I'm back to my netgear router and using the TiVo as the moca bridge. Just waiting on the TiVo callback at this point.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

So the TiVo escalation specialist did not call me, so I had to call them. There is no secret menu to enable the Bolt to assign a moca channel. He confirmed that the option was removed recently because it simply did not work properly. He did not know if this would be turned back on at some point. He told me to check my router to make sure that the TiVo's have unrestricted access inside my home network (they do and always have), to remove any QOS settings on my router (none are on) and to test one Mini with Ethernet and the other on Moca. I will run ethernet to one Mini here later today.

He will call me back tomorrow to see how it goes. The mini in the living room is the only one I can run ethernet to. This is the one that I see the v87 errors on the most. But it is also used the most too.

He also said that my issue is isolated to me and they don't have any other reports of this issue. I told him that is simply not the case and referred him to this thread.

I suggest anyone with this issue to call into TiVo to have it tracked. He said it will not get fixed until they see more people reporting the issue.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I have had a case open with Tivo on their web site for over a week. They must not read those as no one has called me yet.
Is there a specific person I should talk to at Tivo when I call? Can you PM you Case number so I can mention others have this issue also when I Email Maggie and CALL. I have tried everything MOCA wise.

===ETHERNET TEST STARTED======
I just ran Cat5 to one of my Minis, The other is on MOCA so I am doing the same test as you. THIS DID NOT HELP, Same issue on the MOCA one.

NOW TRYING BOTH on Ethernet

I also got a new Mini just in case one was bad. Turns out none are bad so that is not it, they all have the issue.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

scottchez said:


> I have had a case open with Tivo on their web site for over a week. They must not read those as no one has called me yet.
> Is there a specific person I should talk to at Tivo when I call? Can you PM you Case number so I can mention others have this issue also when I Email Maggie and CALL. I have tried everything MOCA wise.
> 
> ===ETHERNET TEST STARTED======
> ...


PM sent with case number.

So the Ethernet connected mini is not giving you any v87 errors correct?

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

So far so good on Ethernet. I turned off MOCA on the BOLT. There is now NO MOCA networking in the house.

Really need to test till about 5pm to be sure. Typically by now it would have the v87 error. NO errors yet, family won't be around all day today to watch though.

I still plan to test more on MOCA this weekend. Only things left to try that I can think of are

1. Check that my AC is clean. Check surge and UPS power supply, could impact a flaky MOCA network

2. Check for other interference in the house near the BOLT

2. Re Test again with a shorter Coax Run and the MINIs in the same room.

If these are not it then it is either a Defective BOLT+ OR the Software for MOCA is bad. If it runs all day on my 1 Gig Ethernet then it is not my Network or Switches (Quality of service or any settings that Tivo thinks is wrong on my Cable modem)

MOCA ERROR in MINI DEBUG LOGS
==========
I did find from an other post how to get to the network logs.
Goto System Information then clear clear enter enter 0

I found the errors

"Ready Network delay is 50568343367 nsec, more than the 350000000 maximum, 1 time"

"CONNECTION INTERRUPTED Error 1 in state:active/Acquire resources/playback"
Hum wonder if Tivo Corp just increased the time out setting


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Question:
anyone know, is it possible my MOCA is too good? I got new COAX and Good Splitters.
My Speed is now 282

TX PHY Rate 282
RX PHY Rate 281

TX Power -27 Had it down to near zero with more splitters. Same speeds though.
RX Power +0.4

This is from the MINI NETWORK status screen. How is this possible? Seems too high.
Is the Bolt trying to force MOCA 2.0 speeds on the mini?

The minis are only MOCA 1.1 the Bolt is 2.0 is it possible the Bolt is pushing data too fast for the MINIs to handle?
I added more splitters but that just lowers the TX to near Zero and the speed still went up a little more.
The MOCA standard makes it sound like 170 Mpbs is the max for MOCA 1.1
URL to official standards site
MoCA 1.1 Highlights

UPDATE: 11:36 AM it is still working, longest run ever with no errors, again, not using MOCA anymore, just Ethernet.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Long tech email sent to Margret at Tivo with everything we tried.
Still no errors on all Ethernet tells me my Network is solid, had to be MOCA issue with Bolt+ (I tried 3 Minis now, they all have it).
Bet if I can just change MOCA channels I would be good not sure why mine now auto detects and goes to channel 27 that is high up there in the GHZ


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Update
Switch back to MOCA, was turned off before. Now I am on MOCA channel 15 and so far so good, working good.
I am also looking into interference from either a bad Power Stripe or Wall outlet which might explain why some MOCA channels just don't work for me.
I also did a complete Wipe all Data and reset for each MINI, that might of helped also.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

scottchez said:


> not sure why mine now auto detects and goes to channel 27 that is high up there in the GHZ


If/when you have the time to waste and can afford the disconnection, I'd be interested in what your MoCA devices would auto-tune as their MoCA channel if they were direct-connected to each other rather than connecting via your coax plant. (Would require temporarily disconnecting from cable provider.)

edit: p.s. Though a bad Mini or BOLT could also be at the root -- but maybe a direct-connection test would identify this. (?)


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> If/when you have the time to waste and can afford the disconnection, I'd be interested in what your MoCA devices would auto-tune as their MoCA channel if they were direct-connected to each other rather than connecting via your coax plant. (Would require temporarily disconnecting from cable provider.)
> 
> edit: p.s. Though a bad Mini or BOLT could also be at the root -- but maybe a direct-connection test would identify this. (?)


TiVo wants me to directly connect my mini to my Bolt over coax. How can I do that and still get FiOS tv channels?

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> TiVo wants me to directly connect my mini to my Bolt over coax. How can I do that and still get FiOS tv channels?


That's what I was thinking, as well, and my initial thought/plan ... a direct connection between the two simply to test MoCA connectivity ... *WOULD* have killed your ability to tune TV signals. But it was just for the sake of testing the MoCA connection and to which MoCA channel they would tune.

However...

An alternative test setup that would accomplish the same thing *and* allow your BOLT to continue tuning content would be to put a 2-way splitter at the BOLT, feeding the BOLT and a Mini from its outputs, but with a MoCA filter on the input to the splitter. This would create a tiny, self-contained MoCA network, isolated from the rest of your home's coax wiring, aside from the TV signals passing through the MoCA filter. (edit: Though this *would* require your BOLT having an Ethernet connection. Hmm...)


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> That's what I was thinking, as well, and my initial thought/plan ... a direct connection between the two simply to test MoCA connectivity ... *WOULD* have killed your ability to tune TV signals. But it was just for the sake of testing the MoCA connection and to which MoCA channel they would tune.
> 
> However...
> 
> An alternative test setup that would accomplish the same thing *and* allow your BOLT to continue tuning content would be to put a 2-way splitter at the BOLT, feeding the BOLT and a Mini from its outputs, but with a MoCA filter on the input to the splitter. This would create a tiny, self-contained MoCA network, isolated from the rest of your home's coax wiring, aside from the TV signals passing through the MoCA filter. (edit: Though this *would* require your BOLT having an Ethernet connection. Hmm...)


I think this is what they want me to do. Since while using the FiOS gateway router I did not get any v87 errors and Ethernet to one Mini did not got any errors either.

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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> I think this is what they want me to do. Since while using the FiOS gateway router I did not get any v87 errors and Ethernet to one Mini did not got any errors either.


Conceivably, with a MoCA filter on the input to the test 2-way splitter feeding the BOLT, the BOLT and test Mini could communicate via MoCA... and your FiOS MoCA network would continue operating, as well. Without the MoCA filter on the 2-way splitter segmenting the coax network, you'd have issues with both the BOLT and FiOS gateway creating MoCA networks.

(It'd be an interesting test as I've never gotten around to seeing if I could establish a MoCA network connection between 2 adapters via a direct connection... but with a MoCA filter in-between.)


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> Conceivably, with a MoCA filter on the input to the test 2-way splitter feeding the BOLT, the BOLT and test Mini could communicate via MoCA... and your FiOS MoCA network would continue operating, as well. Without the MoCA filter on the 2-way splitter segmenting the coax network, you'd have issues with both the BOLT and FiOS gateway creating MoCA networks.
> 
> (It'd be an interesting test as I've never gotten around to seeing if I could establish a MoCA network connection between 2 adapters via a direct connection... but with a MoCA filter in-between.)


I was only using the FiOS gateway as a test. I am no longer using it since I use my own router. I've been using my own router for years. I didn't want to pay the monthly fee for their garbage router.

But I see what you are saying.

In my eyes I have proven this issue is with the TiVo equipment. But I don't know if it's the Bolt or the mini's or a software issue with the Bolt.

Also when I had a Roamio Pro and a 1Ghz splitter I did not have this issue ever. It started the week I changed to the Bolt.

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I also chimed in on the TiVo forum thread here hoping it will get some visibility.

Roamio Plus and Mini connection drops V87 after update | TiVo Troubleshooting | TiVo Help Forums

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I did this test (connected MINI in same room on short coax, no other coax to other MINI) and rebooted. It is still at MOCA Channel 15
I have been at MOCA channel 15 constantly, everything is working great, for me problem seems to be the Auto Tune to channel 23 and then later to channel 27 which made it even worse.
If it ever auto tunes the MOCA 23 or 27 again, I am sure I will have issues again.
I wish Tivo would add back the feature to change MOCA channels, please.

I now suspect electrical interference either a bad outlet or surge suppressor is preventing a clean Channel 23 or 27, talking to an electrician now. For sure I have a Bad PowerStripe and maybe more, going to try a signal meter at the 1,500 Mhz range to check later.
Still others out there may have similar interference and Tivo really needs to add the MOCA channel option back to avoid customer issues. The Auto Pick or Auto Tune to a MOCA channel software JUST DOES NOT WORK, it is not reliable.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

tazzmission,

One idea from my issue (yours may be different), try this test.
May sure the Internet, Tivo and Minis are all directly plugged into a wall out let.
If any are on a power strip or UPS, plug it into the wall AC outlet.
You then have to unplug the Internet and Tivo boxes for 5 mins to clear any static out, then power the internet on, then the Main Tivo, then the Minis, see if it picks a new MOCA channel that works better, then test.

The idea is the issue could be a Grounding issue with interference in the house and the darn TIVO boxes are just super sensitive to it when it comes to MOCA. I had Dish Network on MOCA and never had any issues.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

scottchez said:


> tazzmission,
> 
> One idea from my issue (yours may be different), try this test.
> May sure the Internet, Tivo and Minis are all directly plugged into a wall out let.
> ...


My Bolt+ is on a UPS, and the minis each have a surge protector. I can try this though. Also I am getting video shuddering on the mini's too.

When I had a Roamio Pro with the same equipment I never had any v87 or video shuddering. When I got the Bolt+ this all started shortly after.

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I was on a UPS also.
Got to wonder if the Bolts on more sensitive to AC and Grounding.
Worth a try, A power down of the Internet and all Tivo boxes is required. I also removed all TVs from all Surge and USP for the test.

NO ISSUES SINCE FRIDAY NIGHT, I think I am fixed now with MOCA 15 and no Surge or UPS.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I don't think I want to run that way. I want a UPS and surge protection.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I am putting mine back one at a time to to find the bad one. So far I think it is a bad Surg protector and one of my UPS's Got the Tivo on a UPS again, working good, Trial and error stuff.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I requested a call back from TiVo today. I was told my issue is "environmental" and there is nothing more for them to do. He wants to close my case. To which I refused and asked for another call back on Friday to keep the case open. They also said they don't have anyone else with this issue. I call complete BS. I am really thinking hard about dropping TiVo and never coming back at this point.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Did you try removing all UPS and And Surge from All TIVO, Web, and TVS, anything with any connection to the TV system. Took me 5 mins to test. Well worth it just in case this is it. If not you are out nothing and you can put them back, if it find the bad ones and replace.

===SOLUTION FOR MY CASE====
I am running with no UPS or Surge Suppressors now , running perfect, checking the MOCA network stats I now have ZERO bad packets. This also got me to MOCA Chanel 15 which could be the root cause solution.

Night and day difference. Works Perfect all day all night, I even let it run all night to be sure.
Will be putting them back one at a time later, things are running so good, could be the issue with DOUBLE surge protection , you should never plug a Surge Suppressor into an UPS I read.

Time to do scientific Trial and Error putting the protection back, I want my UPS. I wonder also if I just have a Power Adapter on the Tivo that is more sensitive to AC changes, might be a good question for when Tivo calls you back. I think they out sourced their AC adapters to a different place on the BOLT PLUS.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

scottchez said:


> Did you try removing all UPS and And Surge from All TIVO, Web, and TVS, anything with any connection to the TV system. Took me 5 mins to test. Well worth it just in case this is it. If not you are out nothing and you can put them back, if it find the bad ones and replace.
> 
> I am running with no UPS or Surge Suppressors now , running perfect, checking the MOCA network stats I now have ZERO bad packets.
> Night and day difference. Will be putting them back one at a time later, things are running so good, could be the issue with DOUBLE surge protection , you should never plug a Surge Suppressor into an UPS I read.
> ...


Where can you see bad packets?
Edit: found it

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## CTLesq (Jan 19, 2003)

This has started to become a problem for me. I appreciate the testing people have done - I am going to start the process of trying to fix it now.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

CTLesq said:


> This has started to become a problem for me. I appreciate the testing people have done - I am going to start the process of trying to fix it now.


Please call TiVo and open a case. They keep telling me I'm the only one reporting it. If they don't see more cases it won't get fixed is all they tell me.

Also are you guys seeing stuttering video along with the v87 errors? That is what I am seeing on my mini's. The downstairs mini is seeing a lot more errors than the upstairs mini but the upstairs mini is stuttering video a lot more than the downstairs mini. I've looked are bad packet errors on both mini's and they both report zero.

TiVo keeps telling me that it's an issue in my house which I disagree with. All the wiring and splitter have been replaced and I have a new router too.

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Update:
Been working great since I removed all UPS supplies and surge protectors, one of them is giving interference but not sure which on is yet (need to do trial and error to find it)

BUT
After a reboot it the auto detect moved from Moca Channel 15 to 17, now I got One bad packet in then network status screen. Still no v87 errors yet, but I am getting worried. What will the next reboot do?
Tivo really needs to add back the option to let the customer pick a channel

I also opened a case, AND emailed Margeret a VP there. No one replies. Its been a week.

Best guess is Tivo has some bad power supplies out there, AC interference comes in impacts MOCA. Just a guess.

Trial and Error, maybe try outlets from a different room on a long cord if removing all UPS and Surge from your Mix did not fix. Unplug all Power and then power back on after each change so the MOCA does an auto detect. You just have to test and test since Tivo is not solving this.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

scottchez said:


> Update:
> Been working great since I removed all UPS supplies and surge protectors, one of them is giving interference but not sure which on is yet (need to do trial and error to find it)
> 
> BUT
> ...


I'm glad someone is testing this because I just don't have the time. I'm at my wits end. I'm going to try to run Ethernet to the upstairs mini (won't be easy) and switch to Ethernet on the downstairs mini since I know it works. All we can do is keep calling TiVo and reporting it. Hopefully more people will do that and TiVo will see this as an issue.

What the TiVo engineer told me about the moca channel setting being removed is that it "didn't work". To which I said "it worked for me, when is it going to be added back and fixed?" He said "he didn't know when it would get added back or if it would be added back at all"

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I was able to run new coax and Ethernet to the upstairs mini. I'll be hooking it up today and I'll test. I've not had any v87s on the downstairs mini in a few days. But the mini upstairs stutters video a lot. Will see if the new coax addresses that. I'll also be testing Ethernet on both upstairs and downstairs again.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

NEW INFO ONE
=========
Had the CATV guy out as the Main Tivo has stuttering on some channels but not all. He fixed that
AND
He Ran his Frequency Analyser on all Coax wires including the MOCA Coax they they typically don't support.
He found 5 MHZ interference which MOCA does not use but what it tells him is a have a Big Plasma TV near the Mini (I do).

Solution, tighten up all Coax Connectors with a Wrench and try to move the Mini away from the Plasma TV as far as possible like an other shelf.
I also have Short Wave Receiver, put it on 5 MHZ. WOW it is sooooo loud, turn TV off all quiet. A.M. Radio also impacted badly.

CONCLUSION: Plasma TVs are known to cause interference, though not my issue maybe its yours, worth a try. The CATV meter ould detect it on the line (big spike).

NEW INFO TWO
======
The CATV guy insisted I use his splitters for the MOCA line int he Attic, I did.
Results are now I get a few Package lost errors in the Mini Network status so I went back to the good Holland MOCA certified splitter, NO ERROR. 
The other splitter did not cause me v87 errors but I did see errors so it could be a sign of bad things to come.

Still not v87 errors. All is good.

Hope this helps others. Read my other posts early in this thread for other ideas to try.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

scottchez said:


> NEW INFO ONE
> =========
> Had the CATV guy out as the Main Tivo has stuttering on some channels but not all. He fixed that
> AND
> ...


My upstairs mini is mounted to the back of my Panasonic plasma TV. Hmm maybe that is causing stuttering. Had not been an issue though until recently.

Update: Ethernet works fine, moca has stuttering

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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I've been running one mini on Ethernet and one on moca and I have not had any v87 errors in the last 5 days


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

tazzmission said:


> I've been running one mini on Ethernet and one on moca and I have not had any v87 errors in the last 5 days


What's next, swapping the Minis?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> What's next, swapping the Minis?


I've no idea. I don't see using Ethernet as a "fix". Only using it since it works. TiVo emailed me instructions to send them logs when I see another v87 error "which I have not received any since"

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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

Rebooted to try to fix the Hulu issue.
Now my MOCA is on Channel 23, not working again. I get that error.

GOOD NEWS
Found out how to get to the setting to change it to MOCA Channel 15. Pull power cord from MINIs fist.
I do not know why TIVO removed this form the Bolt Menu. It is for sure needed for those with Plasma TVs that leak interference.

Option One- (worst) do a Guide Setup again, the BOLT will ask you what MOCA channel to sue. Setup takes a long time

Option Two- change Bolt to Ethernet only, turn off MOCA, reboot, then change it back to MOCA setup, you can tell it what MOCA Channel

I did option One, worked for me, now I am on MOCA channel 15 again. No issues.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Over a week with both mini's on Ethernet and no v87 errors


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I have been running good now for some time as long as my MOCA stays on Channel 15.
If there is a power outage and the the Bolt decides to change channels I have to re run the setup again just to get to the prompt where I can choose what MOCA channel I want. This can take 30 mins.
Really Need MOCA Channel 15 or I can go Ethernet like tazzmission had to do.

I really think some houses have interference like from a Plasma TV, or something else nearby.
The BOLT Auto Detect MOCA channel does not always get it right as a Plasma TV or some other devices may be on or off at the time of auto detection.

The customer needs the option to set the channel. If not in the main settings screen but at least via a hidden back door command that takes us to the menu option. The Tivo MINI still has the option to set the MOCA channel.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I'm back on Moca again to test. I'll update if I see any v87 errors. Ideally I'd like to stay on Moca vs Ethernet


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Update: I got a v87 error on Moca on my bedroom mini. This time though it did not allow me to simply ok it and move on. It said it can no longer connect to the Bolt+. A reboot got it to reconnect. I wish TiVo would fix this already. Yes I can use Ethernet now on all my TiVo boxes but that's not the point. This needs moca issue needs fixed.


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

I just got the RC16 update, maybe there is hope there. I did not look to see what changes are there. My Minis do not have it yet.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

scottchez said:


> I just got the RC16 update, maybe there is hope there. I did not look to see what changes are there. My Minis do not have it yet.


Didn't know there was an R16 update. Can you use the priority page to get in the list to receive?

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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I haven't been paying to close attention to the RC16 update. I got it on my Bolt when people first started talking about it, but my Roamio & Premiere are still on RC15. 

So has anyone gotten RC16 on a Roamio or Premiere? Or is this a Bolt only update?


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## scottchez (Dec 2, 2003)

My MINIs are still RC15, seemed like last time the MINIs got the update a week later.


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## Dodge DeBoulet (Aug 3, 2010)

I have a Bolt+ and 2 minis; the Bolt is in the media room and the original mini is currently in the living room at the opposite end of the house. They're connected via MoCA, and the internet connection is supplied by an Actiontec ECB6200 bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter. That's connected to my Netgear R9000 router.

The second Mini is installed in an in-law apartment approximately 250' from the house. There's an RG6 run from the main house to the apartment, and on the apartment end I have another ECB6200. There was originally a small, 4 way amplifier to feed the 4 cable drops in the apartment, but I didn't trust it for supporting MoCA and removed it. The ECB6200 is connected directly to the end of the cable run and I have a 75' CAT5e Ethernet run from the ECB6200 to an older Netgear WNDR3700 (running the current version of dd-wrt though). the WAN port is bridged to the LAN ports and the DHCP service is disabled, so it's just an access point. The 2nd Mini is connected to that via Ethernet. Topology-wise, all devices are on the same IPv4 sub-net.

Before taking the Mini out to the apartment, I had configured it for Ethernet by temporarily installing a spare ECB6200 in the living room and swapping our original Mini for the new one. Activation was completely uneventful, and when I took it out to the apartment and plugged it in, it just worked. Live TV, recorded shows, Netflix ... all good.

FYI, the apartment has an older plasma Panny TV, but the cable run doesn't come within 30' of it. Just Ethernet from the ingress point to the WNDR3700, and more Ethernet from the router to the Mini.

So, no complaints ... just relaying my experience in what I think is a decidedly mixed environment technology-wise.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I ended up going back to using Ethernet instead of Moca due to still getting v87 errors. Anyone v87 error free on Moca?


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## Dodge DeBoulet (Aug 3, 2010)

As I mentioned in the post immediately before yours, I am not experiencing any errors at all with either my MoCA-connected Mini or the Ethernet-connected unit in a remote building that's "bridged" via MoCA.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

Anyone else with a TiVo case open for the v87 error get this email yesterday?

This message is to update you regarding the issue you reported involving loss of Mini connectivity. We would like to inform you that we believe the software update to 20.7.1 should resolve most of these symptoms. Please make sure that all of your devices have successfully downloaded and installed the software update (you can check a device's software version by navigating to the System Information screen, through the Settings or Help menu). If you continue to experience problems related to Mini connectivity, please contact TiVo Technical Support again at 877-367-8486 so that we can continue troubleshooting.

This is funny to me since TiVo has refused to acknowledge that this is even a problem outside of my case. I responded back and have received a followup that they are going to forward my concern to the proper dept. Not that this will do anything.


Just sharing...


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