# Please, no Armed Services ads.



## TheDarb

Hello Tivo. As a parent, I was disappointed and a little upset to find an ad for the US Army and Army reserve on my front Tivo menu this morning. As it is a front menu ad, I am unable to restrict it from being viewed, and I honestly don't want that shown to my child. While the US Armed Services are great establishments and may serve as a means for youth to obtain higher education, the current world climate gives raise to concern for parents wanting to protect their children.

I would ask that Tivo please remove this ad from it's current distribution channel. Maybe put it back out with parental controls enabled on it, requiring the parent's code to view it.

I don't object to the US Armed Forces advertising, I only object that I don't have parental control over whether my 13 year old can view it.

Thank you,
Brandon Darbro
Tivo Customer - Series 2


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## Langree

The Armed Forces can buy ad space (and do) just like anybody else.


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## Mikkel_Knight

Wow... just wow...


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## Langree

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Wow... just wow...


Trust me, I tempered my response.


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## hawk4hire

I'm with you MK.... WOW...


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## Jolt

Im glad i served my country so people like you can express your dislike for us.


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## dirtypacman

To all that served our country and come across this thread --- Thank you!!!


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## NSPhillips

How about you just watch it with your kid and explain why you object to him/her joining the army?


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## TheDarb

NSPhillips said:


> How about you just watch it with your kid and explain why you object to him/her joining the army?


I'll probably either do that, or have the discussion and ask her not to watch it. I have to seriously consider which I will do, I don't know yet.

Please understand, I'm in no way belittling or trashing the Armed Services. I'm just concerned about access they have to young minds without first going through parents. Some parents will want this for their kids, some parents won't. But it should come through the parents.

In my case, I'm a widower, although not do to military. My daughter is all I have left of my family, and losing her would destroy me. So as a result, I wouldn't want her in the Armed Services, or other similarly risky career paths. Now, if they want to try and change her mind once she is 18, I have to respect whatever decision she makes and stand behind her... but until then, I'd really prefer she not be marketed to about this.

Also, I'm not a person who would encourage her to join during just times of peace, either... that's unfair, trying to get the rewards without the responsibility. As an ethical person, I have to make my point to her that it's all in or all out, and that peace or no peace, her decision cannot be based on that.

I'm just asking for parental controls on the ad, and I honestly cannot understand why that would be considered an offensive request to many of you. Some parents will gladly let their kids view it, others who may not be able to take another loss, have reason to not show it. Please try to see that... and if you can, help me understand your perception of my request being offensive, because that certainly was not the intent.


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## WhiskeyTango

NSPhillips said:


> How about you just watch it with your kid and explain why you object to him/her joining the army?


Because that would require him to do some actual parenting.


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## TheDarb

WhiskeyTango said:


> Because that would require him to do some actual parenting.


I'll have you know I'm the most involved parent in her middle school. I run the Parent Teacher Organization, I volunteer to drive on all the field trips, I help her with her homework, and I actively monitor her internet activity and Tivo usage. Your assumption about me is unwarranted. The fact that I brought this up and ask for a parental control on the ad shows I'm actively involved and concerned.

Thank you, and I'm sorry you underestimated me.


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## TheDarb

Somard said:


> Im glad i served my country so people like you can express your dislike for us.


I didn't express a dislike for you. I expressed a dislike for not being able to filter out an ad that parents might wish to control.

In serving your country, you have helped preserve my freedom as a parent to request such a thing. Thank you!


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## AntiPC

After Viet Nam, military and ex-military people got a defensive attitude toward anyone who talked about the war or the armed forces too.


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## Mikkel_Knight

AntiPC said:


> After Viet Nam, military and ex-military people got a defensive attitude toward anyone who talked about the war or the armed forces too.


Has nothing to do with that, but thanks for playin kid...

Parental controls aren't allowed on anything - there's been WWE "previews" and movie "previews" and car/truck ads - and that's exactly what they are is advertisements.

My "wow" comment had more to do with the censorship the OP wanted to incorporate specifically with the apparent military ad.

It's extremely well known that you are anti-administration and extremely anti-Bush and anti-military, so your post is quite amusing (to me at least). You're always hollering about "freedom" and "bill of rights", so it's incredibly ironic how I'm interpretting your post (which may be inaccurate).

To the OP:
Sure - your daughter may be the only thing you have left, but (and I know I'm not one to tell anyone how to parent) why shelter her so? Why not discuss the issue with her? Do you run screaming for the TV every time you see a commercial for "Army of One" or "Few, Proud, Marines"? Why not discuss all options with her? You can easily tell her that you dont' want her joining the military because it's dangerous, and that it's similiar to other high-risk jobs you'd rather not see her go to (public servant et.al.) instead of attempting to prevent her from being educated.

Better she watch a commercial and have a discussion with you instead of get cornered by some unscrupulous recruiter for whatever branch and fills her head with delusions and lies.


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## 20TIL6

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Wow... just wow...


 :up:

The cumulative negative impact on the average American during a present day war. An advertisement.

As a country, we are completely disconnected from reality. Perhaps if we couldn't buy bananas, or tires, or sugar, we might just hold our own government more accountable for its decisions. But we all still have a soft, comfortable pillow to rest on (made in China, $7.99 from Walmart).

Meanwhile, there are those that know real sacrifice. And while they shoulder that burden, most of us give up absolutely nothing.

To the OP: Just go buy one of those stickers for your car. It will all be OK.


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## TheDarb

I'm assuming by OP you think I'm an admin or moderator here? I really just signed up to post about this, and am new to these forums. I think I might have signed up for some forum a long time back to ask Tivo not to do broadcast flag related stuff, but I couldn't find any such old account, so I'm not even sure it was here.

Honest to God I'm not involved with this site at all, I work in IT with an Aerospace company. I'd happily give information to back that up in private.

Or... did you get a message from admins or moderators about this that we didn't see? If you did, could you post it in full so we can see what you were exactly referring to?

Now, on to your points about commercials. So far, I haven't seem them shown during my daughter's Naruto, which is the only thing she really "must have" as of late. But even in the past with other cartoons on Nick or Cartoon Network, I've not seen such ads. And those are the things that she is able to watch without my entering the code. If I had seen them, for one, I'd fast forward through them... and two, I'd have contacted the network and asked them to please not market to impressionable children.

Now, as for why I find the ad bothersome, it's because it paints a military career path in only a positive light. Now granted it is an ad, but it never once mentioned the realities of being deployed to action, the risks, how long you can be recalled for, or anything. The most critical of itself it got was mentioning fear of basic training and how difficult it can be. It's a very one sided and incomplete picture of military service. It's too idealized. That makes it a hard message to deprogram from a kid.

I could probably agree with a well balanced ad, one that shows not just the pro's, but also highlights the con's associated with signing up.


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## SeanC

TheDarb said:


> I'm assuming by OP you think I'm an admin or moderator here?


OP is just an abbreviation for Original Poster.


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## 20TIL6

TheDarb said:


> I'm assuming by OP you think I'm an admin or moderator here? I really just signed up to post about this, and am new to these forums. I think I might have signed up for some forum a long time back to ask Tivo not to do broadcast flag related stuff, but I couldn't find any such old account, so I'm not even sure it was here.
> 
> Honest to God I'm not involved with this site at all, I work in IT with an Aerospace company. I'd happily give information to back that up in private.
> 
> Or... did you get a message from admins or moderators about this that we didn't see? If you did, could you post it in full so we can see what you were exactly referring to?
> 
> Now, on to your points about commercials. So far, I haven't seem them shown during my daughter's Naruto, which is the only thing she really "must have" as of late. But even in the past with other cartoons on Nick or Cartoon Network, I've not seen such ads. And those are the things that she is able to watch without my entering the code. If I had seen them, for one, I'd fast forward through them... and two, I'd have contacted the network and asked them to please not market to impressionable children.
> 
> Now, as for why I find the ad bothersome, it's because it paints a military career path in only a positive light. Now granted it is an ad, but it never once mentioned the realities of being deployed to action, the risks, how long you can be recalled for, or anything. The most critical of itself it got was mentioning fear of basic training and how difficult it can be. It's a very one sided and incomplete picture of military service. It's too idealized. That makes it a hard message to deprogram from a kid.
> 
> I could probably agree with a well balanced ad, one that shows not just the pro's, but also highlights the con's associated with signing up.


 OP = Original Poster


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## TheDarb

Ok, sorry. I thought Mikkel was saying that I was well known for being anti-war and so on. I see now that he was referring to AntiPC. *whew*

I want to keep my opinions on those matters far from this discussion and simply focus on letting parents have a say in viewing the ad with tivo controls.

That way each parent can decide for themselves if the content of the ad is in line with what they want for their kid(s).


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## jtlytle

TheDarb said:


> Hello Tivo. As a parent, I was disappointed and a little upset to find an ad for the US Army and Army reserve on my front Tivo menu this morning. As it is a front menu ad, I am unable to restrict it from being viewed, and I honestly don't want that shown to my child. While the US Armed Services are great establishments and may serve as a means for youth to obtain higher education, the current world climate gives raise to concern for parents wanting to protect their children.
> 
> I would ask that Tivo please remove this ad from it's current distribution channel. Maybe put it back out with parental controls enabled on it, requiring the parent's code to view it.
> 
> I don't object to the US Armed Forces advertising, I only object that I don't have parental control over whether my 13 year old can view it.
> 
> Thank you,
> Brandon Darbro
> Tivo Customer - Series 2


Posting it here won't do any help. You need to call TiVo office there and complaint. Maybe they will listen.


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## hawk4hire

OP - my WOW comment was in regards to censorship of a military ad. I have 3 boys (21,16, and 7) and have discussed the positives and negatives of joining the military. But most of all when they come of age I want them to make that decision, knowingly. 
As for not letting them watch an ad on tv - that seems a little far fetched to me. Whether I agree with any military action - I support our troops 100% and will offer support to their families (my family does yard work for some of our military families for free - and no that is nt my profession). 
Also this brings to mind all the people who want to forbid the military from recruiting/job fairs on college campuses. I suppose you disfavor that as well? 
Back to the ad - I dont want my kids seeing rubber ads or feminine products ads but they are out there - and I too am there with my kids to answer questions.... 
So, I am sure you are a good parent - I am not sure censoring an ad solely because its from the military is the answer....


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## JimboG

TheDarb said:


> Now, as for why I find the ad bothersome, it's because it paints a military career path in only a positive light. Now granted it is an ad, but it never once mentioned the realities of being deployed to action, the risks, how long you can be recalled for, or anything. The most critical of itself it got was mentioning fear of basic training and how difficult it can be. It's a very one sided and incomplete picture of military service. It's too idealized. That makes it a hard message to deprogram from a kid.


The American Express ads on Tivo only highlight the positive aspects of having a credit card. You don't specifically call for blocking these ads even though they don't show the risk of maxing out the cards and declaring bankruptcy, do you?



TheDarb said:


> I wouldn't want her in the Armed Services, or other similarly risky career paths.


So recruiting ads for the police, firefighters, and Coast Guard are right out as well? How about investment banking? That is a reasonably safe activity, unless you were working at Cantor Fitzgerald or Spectra in September 2001. Bad things can happen to people in any job.

I agree that it is important to talk with your children about the risks and benefits of any career field. As someone who recently left active duty military service, I would reiterate Mikkel_Knight's cautionary note about unscrupulous recruiters. A few bad apples really will make promises they cannot keep.

However, when the time comes it is your daughter's choice for where to seek employment. The best answer is to discuss the pros and cons of any possible career choice. Critical reasoning and planning for the future will serve your daughter well. There is no reason that she should not be able to see through the puffery of a recruiting ad just as she should be able to see through the puffery of a Chevy ad or a credit card ad.

Think long and hard about the risks, sacrifices, and tangible as well as intangible rewards of any job before you undertake it. Parents can play an important role in helping their children to discuss and think through these decisions. Asking your daughter to be an ostrich and stick her head in the sand does her no favors.


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## terpfan1980

All I could say is that the most protected are many times the most easily corrupted later.

Consider carefully any request to keep information away from youngsters.

What if the ads for the military are replaced with ads for alcoholic beverages? How about for E.D. treatments? Feminine products?

Where do you draw the line on what is acceptable and what isn't?

I have to imagine (since I don't have the style of TiVo originally discussed and don't see the advertisements that are being mentioned) that this is a simple advertisement placard. Perhaps the type that I see when I log on to Xbox Live. If so, then simply seeing 'Go Army' or something similar would seem to be very, very tame material compared to what could be there.

I'd add +1 to the comments that this is all something that you should consider a learning opportunity and opportunity to discuss with your child, no matter their age. You might find that the child didn't even notice and/or care about the advertisement at all as they were probably much more concerned with how quickly they could get their favorite TV show to show up on the screen. :up:


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## Mikkel_Knight

TheDarb said:


> Now, as for why I find the ad bothersome, it's because it paints a military career path in only a positive light. Now granted it is an ad, but it never once mentioned the realities of being deployed to action, the risks, how long you can be recalled for, or anything. The most critical of itself it got was mentioning fear of basic training and how difficult it can be. It's a very one sided and incomplete picture of military service. It's too idealized. That makes it a hard message to deprogram from a kid.


Why do you even let your child watch television? Do you know how impressionable Dora the Explorer is on young girls (and boys)? If you're not careful, their impressionable minds will want to get an environmental degree and go travelling through jungles where snakes, spiders, and dangerous vegetation reside. Oh the horror. Don't ever think about letting her touch a computer connected to the network, or allow her to get an email address...

...
...
...

When you feel comfortable talking about the real reason, I'll engage in conversation with you. Right now, all you're doing is coming up with an excuse that you can rationalize to yourself for your thinking.

...
...
...

What I find incredibly funny is that you've got no problems allowing your child to watch an anime cartoon about ninjas and demons, but you want to censor your daughter from an military ad.

??HUH??


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## IndyJones1023

I wouldn't want the OP running my kids' PTA.


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## Skittles

TheDarb said:


> Now, as for why I find the ad bothersome, it's because it paints a military career path in only a positive light. Now granted it is an ad, but it never once mentioned the realities of being deployed to action, the risks, how long you can be recalled for, or anything. The most critical of itself it got was mentioning fear of basic training and how difficult it can be. It's a very one sided and incomplete picture of military service. It's too idealized. That makes it a hard message to deprogram from a kid.


Out of curiosity, how much time did you spend in the military?


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## MickeS

Somard said:


> Im glad i served my country so people like you can express your dislike for us.


Obviously, reading comprehension must not be required in the military.

And to the OP, just don't click on the damn link then. Geez. It's not like it's actually showing anything unless you do.

People need to grow some thicker skin.


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## hawk4hire

Originally Posted by TheDarb
Now, as for why I find the ad bothersome, it's because it paints a military career path in only a positive light. Now granted it is an ad, but it never once mentioned the realities of being deployed to action, the risks, how long you can be recalled for, or anything. The most critical of itself it got was mentioning fear of basic training and how difficult it can be. It's a very one sided and incomplete picture of military service. It's too idealized. That makes it a hard message to deprogram from a kid."

Ok I'll bite - "deprogram" ???? Do you think the military career is a CULT??? I'm sorry I would never put those who stand at the wall and protect us on the same level as a silly cult. 
My 7 yr old plays GI Joe, drives transformer cars and watches Hot Wheels cartoons but I dont think he needs deprogramming.... Dang either you doubt you communication skills with your child or you really dont know what to tell them. 
Deprogramming sounds like they have no choice - do you think there are subliminal messages in the military ads?
As for recruiters - hell there are unscrupulous recruiters in the Civilian section too but I dont see you standing up saying "Dont trust IBM,EDS, AT&T" - 
Are you that afraid of your child having a mind of their own? As much as I wouldnt want my boys to go off to war - if that was their decision to join the military I want to make sure they count the cost before joining - after that it's their decision and I have enough faith in my parenting to know my boys and trust them. 
"Deprogramming" - hmmmmm


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## supasta

Might be a smeek...but...

If you are using Parental Controls to "protect" your kids from TV then they aren't old enough to think about joining the military anyway. 

By the way, I must add that your view on this whole thing (OP) is offensive. I come from a family with generations of military service, and although not enlisted myself, my brother and many, many very close friends are enlisted and serving.

I think it would be advisable for you to think about your parenting capability rather than TiVos apparent responsibility to be a parent for you.


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## GoHokies!

TheDarb said:


> My daughter is all I have left of my family, and losing her would destroy me. So as a result, I wouldn't want her in the Armed Services, or other similarly risky career paths. Now, if they want to try and change her mind once she is 18, I have to respect whatever decision she makes and stand behind her... but until then, I'd really prefer she not be marketed to about this.


Wow, that's pretty f-----g selfish.

I guess that either my sister out I bad better get out of the military ASAP, since we're the only two kids that my parents have and are both on active duty. At the same time! 

If you're honestly afraid that an ad on TV is going to make your daughter going to want to do ANYTHING so bad that you'll be unable to convince her to change her mind in the *5 years* you have before this becomes an issue, then you need to take an honest look at your skills as a parent.


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## TheDarb

Sorry to have bothered you all, I'll talk with Tivo directly. I've explained myself clearly, but some folks seem to think I have a higher agenda or an ulterior motive. I was also very careful not to draw parallels between the Armed Services ad and ads for various products. I for one don't find it appropriate to compare it to condom, alcohol, or other such products... as that would imply moral reasonings which I am not basing this on.

I'll leave you with my final comments in this thread. I have not attacked or denigrated the Armed Services, I stand behind the fact that they are honorable and valuable institutions, I am glad, supportive, and proud to have such men and women in my country. As for cartoons about ninja's, it's a cartoon. It is not real people telling my daughter what a good career path the military is. That cartoon also depicts some things that the military ad does not... Battles, suffering, loss, tragedy. I find it interesting that a fantasy cartoon for children does more to address the realities involved in military life than the Armed Services ad does. This is why I happen to be okay with Naruto.

No one as yet has decided to tell me *why* requesting parental control over this ad is offensive. I'm beginning to believe you can't think of a real reason. That you come from a long line of those who have served tells me nothing about why you consider it offensive. It only tells me that you have been told so long that questioning anything about the military is a taboo, that you actually believe that without knowing why.

I'm happy that those of you who choose to serve have done so / do so. I also happen to know what personal cost I alone cannot afford. That you and your families are able to grace our country with your gift is fantastic. But please accept that not everyone can afford to make that same gift. That gift being not only your years of service, but potentially your life itself. Because it's not just your gift to our country, it's your entire family's gift, all your friends gift, everyone who has ever loved you's gift.

Have I served, myself? No. I was unable to. I'm a medical nightmare and was turned away back in the 80's. Although I bet they would take me now. I won't do it now, though, I have a child to raise on my own. Feel free to disrespect that decision if you like.

Wow, I'm just in awe of the lack of understanding. Not that you folks aren't capable of it, but it just seems that the walls to criticism (and in this case, even just perceived criticism, as there was none) some of you have built around yourselves have gotten pretty strong and tall, enough so that I couldn't reach you.

With that, God bless all of you, and any loved ones you have serving in our Armed Forces, and I pray for all of their safe return to you. Thank you for serving. Feel free to close the thread, I won't be back.


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## terpfan1980

TheDarb said:


> No one as yet has decided to tell me *why* requesting parental control over this ad is offensive. I'm beginning to believe you can't think of a real reason. That you come from a long line of those who have served tells me nothing about why you consider it offensive. It only tells me that you have been told so long that questioning anything about the military is a taboo, that you actually believe that without knowing why.


Because censorship is wrong, and worse yet, ignorant parental censorship is wrong. So what that the military puts out advertisements that glorify life in the military. McDonalds puts out advertisements that glorify employment at McDonalds too, that doesn't mean that we should all be lining our children up to work at McDonalds. (No knock on those that do work at McDonalds, but it is most certainly not the job that they portray it to be on their advertisements. It is greasy, sweaty, tiresome work. Work that anyone that who has worked in fast food restaurants will normally tell you that no one should *want to do*.)

Would you really want McDonald's advertisements censored too?

How about applying the best censor yet. Disconnect the box completely. Stop using TiVo if you don't want the advertisements that are helping to keep the costs down for everyone. Without the advertisements you are complaining about are you ready to pay twice the price per month for your TiVo service to make up the ad revenue? How about three times the price?

When you complain about the military, myself and others complain about the other advertisements and eventually the price for service goes up because they (TiVo) aren't getting the revenue from advertisements that they used to get.



TheDarb said:


> I'm happy that those of you who choose to serve have done so / do so. I also happen to know what personal cost I alone cannot afford. That you and your families are able to grace our country with your gift is fantastic. But please accept that not everyone can afford to make that same gift. That gift being not only your years of service, but potentially your life itself. Because it's not just your gift to our country, it's your entire family's gift, all your friends gift, everyone who has ever loved you's gift.
> 
> Have I served, myself? No. I was unable to. I'm a medical nightmare and was turned away back in the 80's. Although I bet they would take me now. I won't do it now, though, I have a child to raise on my own. Feel free to disrespect that decision if you like.


Thanks for your earlier efforts, and your assumption that the military has relaxed their standards. In case you haven't heard, they haven't.

You are still coming across as very selfish though, and ignorant at the same time.

As someone else said, I'd fear someone with your concerns being involved with my children's education as it would seem you only want to portray a tiny portion and one sided view of things. If your child is smart, and you are a good teacher, then you can easily convey the message to your child about the value of military service, but the risks that come with that service.

Apparently you don't seem to think you'd be able to do that job though, so you are asking TiVo as a company to do the job for you or enable you to do the job by using tools that haven't been implemented yet for restricting advertising content.



TheDarb said:


> *Wow, I'm just in awe of the lack of understanding. Not that you folks aren't capable of it, but it just seems that the walls to criticism (and in this case, even just perceived criticism, as there was none) some of you have built around yourselves have gotten pretty strong and tall, enough so that I couldn't reach you.*
> 
> With that, God bless all of you, and any loved ones you have serving in our Armed Forces, and I pray for all of their safe return to you. Thank you for serving. Feel free to close the thread, I won't be back.


Pot, meet kettle.

Too bad you don't seem to have the understanding of the feelings of others, or the simplicity with which you should be able to deal with this issue without ever having to censor a thing from your daughters eyes.


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## DLL66

TheDarb said:


> Hello Tivo. As a parent, I was disappointed and a little upset to find an ad for the US Army and Army reserve on my front Tivo menu this morning. As it is a front menu ad, I am unable to restrict it from being viewed, and I honestly don't want that shown to my child. While the US Armed Services are great establishments and may serve as a means for youth to obtain higher education, the current world climate gives raise to concern for parents wanting to protect their children.
> 
> I would ask that Tivo please remove this ad from it's current distribution channel. Maybe put it back out with parental controls enabled on it, requiring the parent's code to view it.
> 
> I don't object to the US Armed Forces advertising, I only object that I don't have parental control over whether my 13 year old can view it.
> 
> Thank you,
> Brandon Darbro
> Tivo Customer - Series 2


I am glad that I have given up some of my rights to defend posts like the above. Without me and others that have our rights limited, posts like above would not be allowed...........even as stupid as they are.

Advertisements to the military service is what keeps this great nation going. With out an *all volunteer force*, this great nation would struggle. It is because of this all volunteer force , that daily explosions and other careless acts do not happen in this outstanding country. Also kudos to the law enforcement, fire departments, and emergency medical people.

Your comments and thinking embarrasses me for you.


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## Gunnyman

Does KidZone filter out Yellow Star ads?


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## AntiPC

bdowell said:


> Because censorship is wrong, and worse yet, ignorant parental censorship is wrong.


Choosing not to allow your child to be exposed to an influence is hardly censorship. It's an integral part of parenting and a personal decision. It's the very reason the Tivo KidZone feature exists.

Personally, I don't care if my kids see recruiting ads, but I'm cognizant that 58% of voters in one city passed both this measure about recruiting and this measure about guns. I doubt that Tivo would accept an ad for Smith and Wesson, showing how to load and shoot a handgun, a dramatic reenactment of someone killing an intruder, and the best concealed carry locations, with no parental controls.

Tivo is and always has been about TV on your terms.  Adding parental controls to statistically controversial product advertisements makes business sense.


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## Mikkel_Knight

AntiPC said:


> Tivo is and always has been about TV on your terms.  Adding parental controls to statistically controversial product advertisements makes business sense.


???    ???

Waa?

"Yes Mr. Advertising Executive who's buying advertisement time with us, we'd love to have your money for your ad, in addition to that, we will allow the people you are going to be advertising to the ability to block your ad."

OMG, did you even think that through?

Too bad the OP is gone, but it's sad that he feels that it's ok for his daughter to be exposed to other ads that depict nothing but the best from other companies (AmEx, McD's, etc.), but when it comes to the military "STOP THE PRESS!!! OMG!!11one!!1".

The OP is a coward when it comes to actual parenting skills and getting involved with his daughter's life... I only hope that as she grows, he does as well and can be a better parent.

Either that, or she'll end up bubble-wrapped and so niave about the world she'll end up knocked up by the first guy who kisses her.


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## cheesesteak

Calling the OP a coward is a bit strong.


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## Mikkel_Knight

cheesesteak said:


> Calling the OP a coward is a bit strong.


perhaps "coward" isn't the right word... I can't think of a more appropriate one at the moment though...

chickening out?
taking the easy road instead of getting involved?

what fits better? instead of "coward" how about "being cowardly"? does that fit better?


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## durl

AntiPC said:


> Personally, I don't care if my kids see recruiting ads, but I'm cognizant that 58% of voters in one city passed both this measure about recruiting and this measure about guns.


If short-sighted voters want to pass measures that make them feel good while disregarding reality, they're welcome to do so but it doesn't make them right. We all know that Washington DC should be a paradise if gun control worked.

A world without violence is an extremely admirable goal, but pretending that evil doesn't exist doesn't make it go away. Burying our heads in the sand doesn't make us better people. The harsh reality is that we, and has every generation before us, live in a very dangerous world.

Regarding the OP, it's absurd to request such a thing of Tivo. No citizen should have such a reaction to a military ad. It's an opportunity for him to discuss the military with his child so they can fully understand history and the world in which we live. A middle schooler can grasp it if it's presented properly.


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## IndyJones1023

durl said:


> A middle schooler can grasp it if it's presented properly.


Yet, oddly, the parent cannot.


----------



## terpfan1980

The idiotic part of the thoughts of people that want to ban the recruiting and/or keep recruiters away from campuses and such:

some of those same individuals will complain about the 'smarts' of the military and how it is filled with stupid people (or make stupid jokes about if you don't go to school and get smart, you wind up in Iraq....)
if we don't allow recruiting, and the military can't fill it's slots, where will those people come from? Can you say draft?!?

Not trying to smeek here, but too many recruiters in way too many areas/jobs always try to paint things the best. The recruiters for McDonalds, for Marriott, for Chick Fil A, for any where and every where. Their job is to attract individuals and get the interested in working for the people that are paying them to fill slots.

The best defense is educating yourself as much as possible, or educating the people that you are concerned about falling prey to those recruiters.


----------



## pdhenry

Maybe the OP could have "a talk" with his daughter and explain how there are brave people who protect the rest of us at great risk to themselves. Through a series of dialogs over the course of a childhood she can decide whether the benefits of being an American are worth defending (regardless of one's opinions about whether the current task constitutes protection). That way she isn't being "programmed" by either side.

Parts of this movie quote come to mind. Quoted in its entirety for continuity.


> Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.


----------



## bandito28

I'm pretty new here, so take anything that I say with a grain of salt, but is the issue here that everyone here is having with the OP the fact that she/he is talking about censoring a military ad, or any ad in general? I can't speak for the OP, but if she had said a WWE ad instead of a Army ad, would everyone here still feel as strongly with their opinions?


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

pdhenry said:


> Maybe the OP could have "a talk" with his daughter and explain how there are brave people who protect the rest of us at great risk to themselves. Through a series of dialogs over the course of a childhood she can decide whether the benefits of being an American are worth defending (regardless of one's opinions about whether the current task constitutes protection). That way she isn't being "programmed" by either side.
> 
> Parts of this movie quote come to mind. Quoted in its entirety for continuity.
> 
> 
> 
> Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the sentiment behind this, but I think it's just as wrong as the OP. The OP needs to, instead of shelter, explore. The OP refuses to acknowledge that there is good in the military - and then (even more bizarrely) says of advertisements (and apparently only armed forces ads) "brainwash".

The OP is free to dislike the military, and even free to campaign against it. It's the hypocrisy displayed by the OP that certain ads are "ok" and don't "brainwash" by only showing "the good", and that other ads don't do the same thing.

I don't think the OP dislikes the military, I think the OP is simply misinformed (perhaps woefully so) on the military relying on hearsay and personal ignorance.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

bandito28 said:


> I'm pretty new here, so take anything that I say with a grain of salt, but is the issue here that everyone here is having with the OP the fact that she/he is talking about censoring a military ad, or any ad in general? I can't speak for the OP, but if she had said a WWE ad instead of a Army ad, would everyone here still feel as strongly with their opinions?


I would - because it's a double standard...

Talking about how (apparently) only military ads "brainwash" and that by watching that ad (or *gasp* by even seeing it in the TiVo), the daughter is now going to need to be "deprogramed" (OP's word).


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

pdhenry said:


> Maybe the OP could have "a talk" with his daughter and explain how there are brave people who protect the rest of us at great risk to themselves. Through a series of dialogs over the course of a childhood she can decide whether the benefits of being an American are worth defending (regardless of one's opinions about whether the current task constitutes protection). That way she isn't being "programmed" by either side.


I think that would require a little more than what the OP is interested in investing...


----------



## WhiskeyTango

If the OP is so worried about the military ads only showing the good stuff, try turning on the news. You'll get more than your fair share of coverage of reasons NOT to join the military.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

WhiskeyTango said:


> If the OP is so worried about the military ads only showing the good stuff, try turning on the news. You'll get more than your fair share of coverage of reasons NOT to join the military.


but, that's just another form of "brainwashing" if the OP would be consistant... wouldn't it?


----------



## askewed

I hope you are all very proud of yourselves, ganging up on the OP must be very fulfilling. Your righteous indignation is coming off very poorly and the only reason you aren't encountering much in the way of an alternate opinion is because you are coming off like lunatics and it just isn't worth trying to have a dialogue with you all.


----------



## terpfan1980

askewed said:


> I hope you are all very proud of yourselves, ganging up on the OP must be very fulfilling. Your righteous indignation is coming off very poorly and the only reason you aren't encountering much in the way of an alternate opinion is because you are coming off like lunatics and it just isn't worth trying to have a dialogue with you all.


You are welcome to have a dialogue if you want. Your freedom of speech, and the other freedoms you and everyone else enjoy were paid for long ago and even currently with the blood of others that have served this country.

If you aren't happy that many of us feel that a tiny advertisement that shows up on a TiVo box and indicates that someone might want to consider giving service to their country via one of the branches of the Armed Services shouldn't get anyone's panties in bunch, then I'm sorry for you and you are probably right that a dialogue just isn't worth it.

It's not righteous indignation though, it's just that most reasonable individuals don't take issue with a tiny advertisement that 99% of the users of TiVo -- including children -- would never see.

Perhaps you are forgetting that a main reason many people have TiVo boxes is to ignore commercials. While we can't ignore the small static content advertisements that might get shown on the boxes, they all require people to click on them for more information, or take other actions to get to the main advertisement.

So, seeing that there might be a tiny advertisement that happens to picture some smiling young faces giving the impression that those young faces are proud to be of service in the military -- which is the issue that seemed to set off the original poster -- shouldn't bother anyone, and yet it did bother one individual (the OP). It bothered him because he/she selfishly worries that their child might choose a career in the military based on the exposure to an advertisement that they aren't going to remember 2 minutes from now, much less 4 - 6 years from now when they (the child) would be old enough to choose for themselves.

Just because a child sees that picture doesn't mean that they've been brainwashed and indoctrinated. There's no subliminal suggestion there. It's a simple ad, with a simple message. But apparently it was too much for one person and that person has asked for the right to keep such advertisements off their system. More power to them if they get their request, but I seriously doubt it will come to fruition because the ad isn't objectionable to 99.99% of the public, and even to those that are offended by it in some way, it is just as easily ignored by never clicking for more info.


----------



## ufo4sale

bdowell said:


> You are welcome to have a dialogue if you want. Your freedom of speech, and the other freedoms you and everyone else enjoy were paid for long ago and even currently with the blood of others that have served this country.
> 
> If you aren't happy that many of us feel that a tiny advertisement that shows up on a TiVo box and indicates that someone might want to consider giving service to their country via one of the branches of the Armed Services shouldn't get anyone's panties in bunch, then I'm sorry for you and you are probably right that a dialogue just isn't worth it.
> 
> It's not righteous indignation though, it's just that most reasonable individuals don't take issue with a tiny advertisement that 99% of the users of TiVo -- including children -- would never see.
> 
> Perhaps you are forgetting that a main reason many people have TiVo boxes is to ignore commercials. While we can't ignore the small static content advertisements that might get shown on the boxes, they all require people to click on them for more information, or take other actions to get to the main advertisement.
> 
> So, seeing that there might be a tiny advertisement that happens to picture some smiling young faces giving the impression that those young faces are proud to be of service in the military -- which is the issue that seemed to set off the original poster -- shouldn't bother anyone, and yet it did bother one individual (the OP). It bothered him because he/she selfishly worries that their child might choose a career in the military based on the exposure to an advertisement that they aren't going to remember 2 minutes from now, much less 4 - 6 years from now when they (the child) would be old enough to choose for themselves.
> 
> Just because a child sees that picture doesn't mean that they've been brainwashed and indoctrinated. There's no subliminal suggestion there. It's a simple ad, with a simple message. But apparently it was too much for one person and that person has asked for the right to keep such advertisements off their system. More power to them if they get their request, but I seriously doubt it will come to fruition because the ad isn't objectionable to 99.99% of the public, and even to those that are offended by it in some way, it is just as easily ignored by never clicking for more info.


+1


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

askewed said:


> I hope you are all very proud of yourselves, ganging up on the OP must be very fulfilling. Your righteous indignation is coming off very poorly and the only reason you aren't encountering much in the way of an alternate opinion is because you are coming off like lunatics and it just isn't worth trying to have a dialogue with you all.


blah blah blah...

wah wah wah...

VERY well put bdowell!!


----------



## askewed

bdowell said:


> You are welcome to have a dialogue if you want. Your freedom of speech, and the other freedoms you and everyone else enjoy were paid for long ago and even currently with the blood of others that have served this country.


I appreciate you cementing my point so eloquently...


----------



## Agatha Mystery

TheDarb said:


> As for cartoons about ninja's, it's a cartoon. It is not real people telling my daughter what a good career path the military is. That cartoon also depicts some things that the military ad does not... Battles, suffering, loss, tragedy. I find it interesting that a fantasy cartoon for children does more to address the realities involved in military life than the Armed Services ad does. This is why I happen to be okay with Naruto.


I watch Naruto with my son. Have you talked to your child about the sexual content in it? Have you watched it enough to realize it's there? The Toad Sage is a "pervy sage" who happens to be a massive Peeping Tom. He writes books about it and how to pick up women.

Oh, and the military will come to your daughter's school and recruit from there. They come and administer the ASVAB before she's 18. Are you going to stop that since you don't want her to see what her options are until she's 18?


----------



## 702

The military will come to her school many times.

Don't forget the ASVAB!


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## realityboy

No one has really pointed out the obvious. There are military ads during lots of children's programming so this is more than just a Tivo issue. (not that I agree with censoring these ads on Tivo or elsewhere) Talk to your kid. Maybe the war will be over before he/she is old enough to join.


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## ZachTac

I did not read every post in this thread, but I read most of them just to get an idea of the climate here for this type of discussion.

There is no denying that any discussion of the military is controversial at this time. The world theater is changing and public opinion polls will show that most everyone has an opinion of some kind related to military subjects. We just need to remember that we aren't here, in this thread, to discuss all that.

The original poster wrote about his concern over advertising that s/he finds objectionable. I think it may be a good idea to have parental controls to limit the rating of advertisements that TiVo displays in its interfaces. I don't think many would argue that this specific advertisement is not intended for younger children and is targeted at adults or older teenagers near the legal age for recruitment. That in itself may be reason enough to allow parents to limit it until they feel their children are old enough to learn about the military.

Letting people control their TV viewing experience is what TiVo is all about. Lets not lose sight of what is important here and that is TiVo letting us decide what we want to view or what we want those in our household to view.


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## terpfan1980

ZachTac said:


> I did not read every post in this thread, but I read most of them just to get an idea of the climate here for this type of discussion.
> 
> There is no denying that any discussion of the military is controversial at this time. The world theater is changing and public opinion polls will show that most everyone has an opinion of some kind related to military subjects. We just need to remember that we aren't here, in this thread, to discuss all that.
> 
> The original poster wrote about his concern over advertising that s/he finds objectionable. I think it may be a good idea to have parental controls to limit the rating of advertisements that TiVo displays in its interfaces. I don't think many would argue that this specific advertisement is not intended for younger children and is targeted at adults or older teenagers near the legal age for recruitment. That in itself may be reason enough to allow parents to limit it until they feel their children are old enough to learn about the military.
> 
> Letting people control their TV viewing experience is what TiVo is all about. Lets not lose sight of what is important here and that is TiVo letting us decide what we want to view or what we want those in our household to view.


#1, Letting people control what ads they see isn't that likely to happen. If it did, then TiVo loses a lot of the audience for the ads, in turn losing the promise of an advertiser reaching that audience, in turn leaving TiVo with no revenue from the sale of the ad space.

#2, Even if TiVo allowed the use of controls to help stop some advertising (and put up with the financial hit stated above), who rates the ads and marks things objectionable and how many ratings as objectionable would be required before an ad could be blocked??

On point number 2 here, lets say that TiVo did let someone block objectionable ads -- if the ads for military service aren't in any way rated objectionable, then how would they be blocked? Blocked because of adult language? Really?!?! Where? Blocked because of violent content? In what military recruiting advertising do you see violent content!?!? Blocked for sexual content? Don't think so. etc.

So, unless TiVo gives you a way to say 'never show my family this ad again' (which isn't a bad idea, but isn't there currently), what would block the ad and would what would stop it from showing up the first time, which seems to have been enough in the world of OP as they feared that even one viewing might somehow 'program' their child to want a military life.

Going back to point #2 here, lets say that one individual does find an ad objectionable, is that enough to warrant the ad being labelled as objectionable so that parental controls could keep it away, or is TiVo more likely to use a group of individuals for doing the ratings, and have the results of the ratings rely upon the thoughts and feelings of more than one person? Consider how the MPAA works when they rate things. Or how the ESRB rates video games. Letting any one individual be the arbiter wouldn't fly, and again, the majority of people that have been exposed to or have knowledge of the ads that the military uses don't see them as objectionable.

This seems to be a case of one square peg and lots of round holes. You decide which is which


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## hawk4hire

Isnt it ironic that those who claim freedom of speech for virtually anything are the first to claim the military doesnt have that same right or at least they shouldnt have to hear that "type" of speech....And heaven forbid if the military came to a school to give a speech but its perfectly ok for any other group (GLAD, MAAD, etc.) to come to a school to give a speech. If you take away the rights of one group it will eventually be applied to all groups. 

Using the same arguement as the OP, since I have a house full of boys I think I should be able to block ads for Beer, Feminine products, any health ads that I dont like - so where does this stop?? 

While its a good thought - its not thought through to a logical conclusion - its not possible. 
I dont think anyone here attacked the OP's right to post - what they did was question his logic as a parent and Tivo owner. No one questioned his patriotisim or his parenting skills. 
Most of us simply wanted to remind him his freedom was paid at someone else's expense. 

And Zahc, just to be clear - that cost was paid even before Iraq, Desert Storm, Desert Shield or even Viet Nam - it's paid during the peace time too. 

If the US were like other Israel then as soon as someone turns 18 they automatically join the military - ALL 18 yr olds. But since dont have a draft, people have the choice to join or not - and like ANY other business the military needs to recruit. Sure there are recruiters who may mislead (telling a kid with glasses he can fly an F18) and while it doesnt excuse that act - 1 bad act doesnt spoil the whole military. Just like 1 bad civilian recruiter for AT&T, Tivo, Cisco or any other high tech company, doesnt destroy the reputation of that company. Its just easier for people to point out that mistakes of the military and want it to go away or where they dont have to hear about it because they dont like it. 
Its easy to say you support the troops when they are at war - its harder to say that when they arent....


----------



## askewed

hawk,

The military isn't an organization like MADD. It's the government. It also isn't trying to keep young people from drinking and driving, it's glamorizing murdering people with cool gadgets. You must see the difference between the Air Force showing a 7 year old amazing video of flying a jet to get them to think about joining and showing them the real side of drinking and driving. 

So to be clear... cigarette companies can't buy ad time because cigarettes are unhealthy but the largest most powerful killing machine in the world can and they can hire an ad firm to make it look like a video game? To answer your question "where does it stop"... It's seems we already have guidelines to answer that question. It seems that "it stops" at things that threaten your life. 

When you show a young person something you are (slowly) subliminally indoctrinating them. It's why adults that have serious questions about their religion can't break away from it. It's why adults stick up for abusive parents. It's unfair and a disservice to a child's trust to do anything but prepare them to be adults and then support them as the figure out what that means. Making them uncomfortable if they aren't cheering for the Giants, using Heinz ketchup or not wanting to be Presbyterian only serves to confuse them and make it nearly impossible for them to live an unencumbered life as their own person. 

To sum up, I'll tell my kids (and I already have) about war, hunger and injustice. I will not let a biased third party do it. And if this great country crumbles because of it (which it won't) then it was an imperfect idea whose time had come and gone. The world will reorder itself and try again. And if that wasn't true... we'd all be Romans.

Having said all that... I sincerely appreciate every single minute that of every single solider has ever given in service.


----------



## Langree

askewed said:


> hawk,
> 
> The military isn't an organization like MADD. It's the government. It also isn't trying to keep young people from drinking and driving, *it's glamorizing murdering people with cool gadgets.* You must see the difference between the Air Force showing a 7 year old amazing video of flying a jet to get them to think about joining and showing them the real side of drinking and driving.
> 
> To sum up, I'll tell my kids (and I already have) about war, hunger and injustice. I will not *let a biased third party do it*. And if this great country crumbles because of it (which it won't) then it was an imperfect idea whose time had come and gone. The world will reorder itself and try again. And if that wasn't true... we'd all be Romans.


But your views seems extremely biased and short sighted.


----------



## IndyJones1023

Your "glamorizing murder" is a sane person's "defending our country."


----------



## askewed

Langree said:


> But your views seems extremely biased and short sighted.


To you... and you may or may not be right. But at least they are my views that my kids hear.

My views vs. yours is what this country is supposed to be about. We both get to have our own thoughts and live our lives our own way. I don't want my kids fighting in the military but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the ones that choose to.

The anger coming from the "pro military" side of this argument is very close-minded. Basically, they are saying "you enjoy the protecting... so you can't complain... if you do you're an ungrateful bastard that shouldn't get to live here".

Let me spin this thing 180º and try to make the same point. My wife took her education very seriously. She missed out on 95% of the fun that most people have in high school and college in the name of her education. Today (besides continuing her education when she doesn't need to so she can stay at the top of her profession) she very directly helps bring new medications (that save the lives of millions of people) to the masses. We see her about an hour a day and on the weekends she is so exhausted she can barely move, she sacrifices greatly for a purpose she believes helps people. Further, it is completely reasonable to guess that everyone in this thread has or will benefit from my wife's hard work and dedication to excellence at some point in their life.

Does that mean that people that didn't go to college shouldn't benefit from her hard work? Should she be indignant towards those who don't contribute on the same high level that she does?

Just because you decided to design video games or own a lawn service doesn't mean you shouldn't get the medicine you need to stay alive... does it? Sure some people will act or be ungrateful... And as distasteful as that may seem to me... that's what this USA thing is all about. The guy that doesn't work, won't fight and can't help out is just as much a citizen as you and I are. Some people need more standing up for then others... and there is nothing wrong with that... in fact it's rather noble.


----------



## allan

An ad is an ad. I don't care if it's a military ad or an ad telling you to "ask your doctor" about the latest variation of V!agra. The whole purpose of ads is to sucker people into doing what the ad-makers want. And by the time the kid is 18, she'll be bombarded with millions of them, and not just from your TV. The best defense against them is to make sure your kid KNOWS that they're biased and that the kid should make her decision based on ALL the facts, not just the spin the ad-maker puts on it.


----------



## jeff125va

askewed said:


> . . . it's glamorizing murdering people with cool gadgets . . .
> 
> Having said all that... I sincerely appreciate every single minute that of every single solider has ever given in service.


So you appreciate them "murdering" people?


----------



## askewed

jeff125va said:


> So you appreciate them "murdering" people?


If it is necessary to our survival, yes I do. Which is not to say I believe it is has been necessary every time we've engaged in it. i wouldn't hurt a fly but if you come up to my kids swinging a stick you'll find yourself staring at a hospital ceiling when your eyes open back up... and I'll do it without remorse.


----------



## askewed

IndyJones1023 said:


> Your "glamorizing murder" is a sane person's "defending our country."


Would be if that was all it was used for... ever. Here's some faces right back at ya...     .. you pick one.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

Langree said:


> But your views seems extremely biased and short sighted.


Not to mention completely untrue and delusional as well as borderline neurotic and paranoid.

But it does explain a whole lot about you and your posts, that's for sure...


----------



## askewed

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Not to mention completely untrue and delusional as well as borderline neurotic and paranoid.
> 
> But it does explain a whole lot about you and your posts, that's for sure...


My views are untrue? Can a view be untrue?

Please regale us with your credentials so that when I go to my physician with your diagnosis he doesn't think it came from a blowhard via the internet. You know so I can get the help you say I need.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

askewed said:


> To you... and you may or may not be right. But at least they are my views that my kids hear.
> 
> My views vs. yours is what this country is supposed to be about. We both get to have our own thoughts and live our lives our own way. I don't want my kids fighting in the military but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the ones that choose to.
> 
> The anger coming from the "pro military" side of this argument is very close-minded. Basically, they are saying "you enjoy the protecting... so you can't complain... if you do you're an ungrateful bastard that shouldn't get to live here".
> 
> Let me spin this thing 180º and try to make the same point. My wife took her education very seriously. She missed out on 95% of the fun that most people have in high school and college in the name of her education. Today (besides continuing her education when she doesn't need to so she can stay at the top of her profession) she very directly helps bring new medications (that save the lives of millions of people) to the masses. We see her about an hour a day and on the weekends she is so exhausted she can barely move, she sacrifices greatly for a purpose she believes helps people. Further, it is completely reasonable to guess that everyone in this thread has or will benefit from my wife's hard work and dedication to excellence at some point in their life.
> 
> Does that mean that people that didn't go to college shouldn't benefit from her hard work? Should she be indignant towards those who don't contribute on the same high level that she does?
> 
> Just because you decided to design video games or own a lawn service doesn't mean you shouldn't get the medicine you need to stay alive... does it? Sure some people will act or be ungrateful... And as distasteful as that may seem to me... that's what this USA thing is all about. The guy that doesn't work, won't fight and can't help out is just as much a citizen as you and I are. Some people need more standing up for then others... and there is nothing wrong with that... in fact it's rather noble.


This wasn't supposed to be about "pro-military" or "anti-military". This was about ads and the "brainwashing" they do as well as the "deprograming" needed afterwards. Specifically, the utter hypocrisy of the OP in his "protection" of his daughter. It's turned into it because you've made it as such...

Perhaps we can get it back on track by determining why some ads are ok and others aren't? Some ads that "brainwash" you and others that you need to be "deprogramed" afterwards?

Please... an ad is an ad is an ad. It is designed to accentuate the positive. Period. No ad is any different from any other ad...


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

askewed said:


> My views are untrue? Can a view be untrue?
> 
> Please regale us with your credentials so that when I go to my physician with your diagnosis he doesn't think it came from a blowhard via the internet. You know so I can get the help you say I need.


Show me an ad that glamorizes murdering people.

Oh yeah... you can't. Ergo, "untrue".

next?


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## Mikkel_Knight

askewed said:


> My views are untrue? Can a view be untrue?
> 
> Please regale us with your credentials so that when I go to my physician with your diagnosis he doesn't think it came from a blowhard via the internet. You know so I can get the help you say I need.


You can interpret things however you want... you can say that the sky is green or purple - doesn't make it true...


----------



## jeff125va

askewed said:


> If it is necessary to our survival, yes I do. Which is not to say I believe it is has been necessary every time we've engaged in it. i wouldn't hurt a fly but if you come up to my kids swinging a stick you'll find yourself staring at a hospital ceiling when your eyes open back up... and I'll do it without remorse.


You have evidently confused the word "murder" with the word "kill." "Murder" has an inherent moral component which would be removed by the justifiable act of killing in self-defense or in the defense of another. You are obviously capable of making the distinction, so why disparage those who have killed while risking their own lives in order to ensure *your* survival by calling them "murderers"?


----------



## wolflord11

"it's glamorizing murdering people with cool gadgets"

Well when someones firing at you with an AK47, what you gonna do, just sit there and wait until you eventually are hit and killed, or are you going to fight back?

Perhaps some of those that have posted should go and find out what its really like to be under fire, and then see what they do: Run? Sit and wait to be hit? Or fire back?


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## SueAnn

/me waits for the overly protected daughter to rebel against her father.


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## Langree

SueAnn said:


> /me waits for the overly protected daughter to rebel against her father.


SueAnn! you been hiding?

Yup, when sheltered kids finally get a taste of freedom they tend to go overboard, at least for awhile.


----------



## askewed

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Show me an ad that glamorizes murdering people.
> 
> Oh yeah... you can't. Ergo, "untrue".
> 
> next?


----------



## IndyJones1023

I didn't see any murders.


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## askewed

jeff125va said:


> You have evidently confused the word "murder" with the word "kill." "Murder" has an inherent moral component which would be removed by the justifiable act of killing in self-defense or in the defense of another. You are obviously capable of making the distinction, so why disparage those who have killed while risking their own lives in order to ensure *your* survival by calling them "murderers"?


You are 100% correct. But that isn't the reason all of our wars have happened. I don't like Saddam or feel much of what he did was right but that doesn't make the fact that we murdered him any less true. We attack his country and applied our laws to him and then killed him for not being like us. We murdered him.

If a country (say Canada) has a law that indicates that something G.W. Bush does every day is illegal or immoral and they attack the U.S., find him and hang him was he killed or murdered? If you try to stand up to them are you a terrorist or an insurgent? If Saddam and his atrocities were our real target it could have been handle much differently and with minimal lives lost. Iraq isn't self-defense... it's an invasion. The Vietnamese weren't threatening us... and on and on. What you said is correct when applicable.


----------



## Langree

askewed said:


> You are 100% correct. But that isn't the reason all of our wars have happened. I don't like Saddam or feel much of what he did was right but that doesn't make the fact that we murdered him any less true. We attack his country and applied our laws to him and then killed him for not being like us. We murdered him.
> 
> If a country (say Canada) has a law that indicates that something G.W. Bush does every day is illegal or immoral and they attack the U.S., find him and hang him was he killed or murdered? If you try to stand up to them are you a terrorist or an insurgent? If Saddam and his atrocities were our real target it could have been handle much differently and with minimal lives lost. Iraq isn't self-defense... it's an invasion. The Vietnamese weren't threatening us... and on and on. What you said is correct when applicable.


Skating closed to getting political.

FYI your analogy is silly.


----------



## askewed

wolflord11 said:


> "it's glamorizing murdering people with cool gadgets"
> 
> Well when someones firing at you with an AK47, what you gonna do, just sit there and wait until you eventually are hit and killed, or are you going to fight back?


Personally I avoid being places were that has a likelihood of happening.



wolflord11 said:


> Perhaps some of those that have posted should go and find out what its really like to be under fire, and then see what they do: Run? Sit and wait to be hit? Or fire back?


Trying to find Osama in Afghanistan... all for it. Thrilled and grateful that there are men and women wanting to do that job!!! And the minute a foreign invader lands on Jones Beach I'll be right there to find out how I'll react to your pointed question... to my death with a great feeling of honor and pride. But I'm not flying half way around the world to shoot people that have done nothing to me on the word of G.W. that they were gonna. That's an invasion and I don't begrudge those people shooting at us one bit. I don't like it but I don't not understand it. You'd do the very same thing.


----------



## askewed

Langree said:


> Skating closed to getting political.
> 
> FYI your analogy is silly.


Well duh... Of course it is... We'd stop the Canadians way before they got to Niagara Falls. Posers the lot of em'.


----------



## painkiller

Just an observational comment.

I have had similar discussions (arguments?) with my sister about "protecting her only son from this war."

I finished up by telling her - that's all well and good for you right now - since he is sill under age and in school, but when your son becomes of legal age and decides to join the military ... then what do you do? Legally and technically you can't stop him.



So.

In the meantime, "protecting" your offspring from such undesirables (on your estimation) could actually prove to be not only unrealistic - but harmful in the long run.

Just sayin, is all.


----------



## wolflord11

askewed said:



> *Personally I avoid being places were that has a likelihood of happening.*
> 
> Well thats all good and well, but when you are ordered to go to those places, you do not really have a choice do you, well except to desert.
> 
> *Trying to find Osama in Afghanistan... all for it. Thrilled and grateful that there are men and women wanting to do that job!!! And the minute a foreign invader lands on Jones Beach I'll be right there to find out how I'll react to your pointed question... to my death with a great feeling of honor and pride. But I'm not flying half way around the world to shoot people that have done nothing to me on the word of G.W. that they were gonna. That's an invasion and I don't begrudge those people shooting at us one bit. I don't like it but I don't not understand it. You'd do the very same thing*.


Yes it was an invasion, and as far as I am concerned the job was done. Hussain is no more. So why do we continue to stay and fight, loosing brave men and women every day? Its turning into another Northern Ireland/IRA thing.


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## jeff125va

askewed said:


> You are 100% correct. But that isn't the reason all of our wars have happened. I don't like Saddam or feel much of what he did was right but that doesn't make the fact that we murdered him any less true. We attack his country and applied our laws to him and then killed him for not being like us. We murdered him.
> 
> If a country (say Canada) has a law that indicates that something G.W. Bush does every day is illegal or immoral and they attack the U.S., find him and hang him was he killed or murdered? If you try to stand up to them are you a terrorist or an insurgent? If Saddam and his atrocities were our real target it could have been handle much differently and with minimal lives lost. Iraq isn't self-defense... it's an invasion. The Vietnamese weren't threatening us... and on and on. What you said is correct when applicable.


That's irrelevant (not to mention untrue). The people you had called murderers had nothing to do with _why_ we attacked his country. Sure, there may be some rare, extreme situations where a soldier shouldn't follow orders. To simply disregard their commanders' decision to go to war, made with the support of the vast majority of both houses of Congress, is certainly not among them.

As to the historical facts, the people/government of Iraq killed Saddam Hussein, "we" did not. And it wasn't because he was unlike Americans, it was because he slaughtered thousands of Iraqi civilians. Now if you oppose the death penalty in all circumstances, you can call it murder if you'd like. But the rest of your statements are factually incorrect. Nothing political (because it certainly wasn't for lack of trying), just correcting your historical errors.


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## TreborPugly

Aside from the argument about censorship, there's this nifty feature called "Kid Zone" on your Tivo. You define what shows your kid can watch, what channels they can watch, and turn it on. Then they never see the main Tivo Menu, and can't see any adds that Tivo puts there. If they hit the Tivo button, they go right to their Now Playing list, only populated with the shows you've approved. 

No need for Tivo to censor what adds they accept.


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## hawk4hire

Askewed - 
As to the "biased third party" - arent ALL advertisers biased third parties? Isnt a school teacher a "biased third party", a high school administrator who selects text books??
Clearly it is impossible to protect children from "biased third parties" and as such I tend to teach my kids to learn right and wrong from home - beyond that they have the right to ask questions when presented a different view from theirs. 
The MAAD comment I made was equating ANY third party who presents an opinion in the same boat.... I was stating that third parties who want access to present a "view" to school aged kids should be treated equally. There are law schools who forbid the military access to present job opportunities to the students yet the next day GLAD,MAAD, whatever organization comes in and does the same thing. All I was pointing out was equal rights - equal access. If you close the school to the military recruiters because some people dont agree - then you need to close it to other organizations, businesses whatever because some OTHER people dont agree.....


----------



## MickeS

IndyJones1023 said:


> Your "glamorizing murder" is a sane person's "defending our country."


I have nothing against the military, but some of the ads are pretty bad in this respect. I saw one for the Army (I think) recently that was basically saying "if you like cool videogames, join the army and kill for real". I was rather surprised at how low they aimed with that one (yeah, pun intended )).

And please, bdowell, don't say that those dying now in Iraq are there protecting our freedom of speech.  I can think of many good reasons why they're there, but that is NOT one of them.


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## pdhenry

Um, IBTL. Sorry, had to say it.


----------



## askewed

jeff125va said:


> As to the historical facts, the people/government of Iraq killed Saddam Hussein, "we" did not. And it wasn't because he was unlike Americans, it was because he slaughtered thousands of Iraqi civilians.


If you aren't willing to look into the situation further and just believe what the White House Press Secretary tells us, then okay... you're correct.

And please don't be so literal. We facilitated it... They never would have been able to do that without our intervention. I'm not saying they aren't better off just that we didn't have to launch missiles into Bagdad for 3 days to get it done. Plenty of tyrants have been unseated with out force.

There are still plenty of leaders oppressing and slaughtering their countrymen and woman everyday. In your estimation why aren't we off saving any of them? I believe it is because he was unseated and hung for reasons none to do with our safety. Believe what you will...


----------



## Mikkel_Knight

askewed said:


>


An Army-sponsored video game is the best you can do?

Ok... you win.

glorifying *murder*...

yup. ok.


----------



## dirtypacman

TreborPugly said:


> Aside from the argument about censorship, there's this nifty feature called "Kid Zone" on your Tivo. You define what shows your kid can watch, what channels they can watch, and turn it on. Then they never see the main Tivo Menu, and can't see any adds that Tivo puts there. If they hit the Tivo button, they go right to their Now Playing list, only populated with the shows you've approved.
> 
> No need for Tivo to censor what adds they accept.


DING DING DING we have a winner

Can we close this thread now?


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## jeff125va

MickeS said:


> And please, bdowell, don't say that those dying now in Iraq are there protecting our freedom of speech.  I can think of many good reasons why they're there, but that is NOT one of them.


Perhaps, but the point is that they enlist in the military and put their lives at risk to protect all the freedoms of all Americans (and others). Where and when they do it isn't up to them. Perhaps not every single thing they do has a direct effect on that, but they are dying because of their willingness to dedicate their lives to protecting our freedom, which means going wherever the politicians send them. If they weren't willing to fight the wars you don't consider necessary, they wouldn't be there to fight the ones you do.


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## jeff125va

askewed said:


> They never would have been able to do that without our intervention. . . . Plenty of tyrants have been unseated with out force.


I think those two statements say pretty much all there is to say about the capacity for rational thought here. I'm done.


----------



## hawk4hire

Mikkel_Knight said:


> An Army-sponsored video game is the best you can do?
> 
> Ok... you win.
> 
> glorifying *murder*...
> 
> yup. ok.


MK I agree with you -

And Top Gun was used to recruit for the Navy, and the current TV show - The Unit - to recruit for the Army?? 
So is the CSI Tv show used to recruit the Police force? They have a CSI video game.... 
I am really missing the logic here Askewed - But for arguement's sake why not let the military use video games, tv show or commercials to recruit? 
Does Boston Legal or Shark help recruit for lawyers? How far does this get stretched? Should we stop any TV show that may be used to glorify a career in that field? 
In the US every company (public, private or federal) has the same speech rights - and rights to make commercials as other businesses.
I am not criticizing you Askewed but more the logic of your arguement


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## Langree

hawk4hire said:


> MK I agree with you -
> 
> And Top Gun was used to recruit for the Navy


Actually, Navy recruitment shot up as the result of Top Gun


----------



## durl

askewed said:


> If you aren't willing to look into the situation further and just believe what the White House Press Secretary tells us, then okay... you're correct.


Please. I'm sure the Iraqi people appreciate your labelling them as puppets.



askewed said:


> And please don't be so literal. We facilitated it... They never would have been able to do that without our intervention. I'm not saying they aren't better off just that we didn't have to launch missiles into Bagdad for 3 days to get it done. Plenty of tyrants have been unseated with out force.


Yeah...they usually die as old men leaving thousands, if not millions, of dead bodies in their wakes.



askewed said:


> There are still plenty of leaders oppressing and slaughtering their countrymen and woman everyday. In your estimation why aren't we off saving any of them? I believe it is because he was unseated and hung for reasons none to do with our safety. Believe what you will...


You should watch Al Gore's speech from 1992 at Georgetown University (it's on YouTube). He laid out an excellent argument for launching attacks against Iraq (said they sponsored terrorism and were building WMDs)...and slammed George HW Bush for not doing it.

And we did go after other countries that oppress their own citizens. Clinton used American troops in Bosnia and Kosovo. (Funny that there was little cry about those countries not attacking us or posing a threat to our way of life.)


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## terpfan1980

MickeS said:


> I have nothing against the military, but some of the ads are pretty bad in this respect. I saw one for the Army (I think) recently that was basically saying "if you like cool videogames, join the army and kill for real". I was rather surprised at how low they aimed with that one (yeah, pun intended )).
> 
> And please, bdowell, don't say that those dying now in Iraq are there protecting our freedom of speech.  I can think of many good reasons why they're there, but that is NOT one of them.


#1 - there's a huge difference between the type of advertisements and recruiting you are talking about in your first paragraph and the type of advertisement that offended the original poster. Again, to even see the content of the advertisement that the OP was worried about required additional effort. Even then, the OP was more concerned that the advertisement made it seem that life in the military was all smiles, where the materials you are talking about pretty clearly point out that life in the military is far from that and can fairly quickly become a case of kill or be killed.

#2 - I wouldn't argue that point at all, but I would point out that the U.S. military goes where it is told, when it is told, and the members of same generally do not have a choice in the matter.
They move at the behest of their commanders, including civilian commanders (Sec of Defense, Commander-in-Chief) and do so without grumbling about it (for the most part).
They volunteer for their jobs for a variety of reasons, with 'because I saw a cool advertisement about life in the military' normally being incredibly low on the list of reasons (and because it pays well also very low on the reality scale).
The people that are serving overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan are doing so because that is what the civilian leadership ordered them to. In Afghanistan, there was a clear cut reason to be there. In Iraq, with hindsight 20-20, not so clear cut on the reasons.
To stay on topic though, the blood that these folks have spilled, even the ones losing life and limb in Iraq at this time, is to protect life and liberty for someone. To help protect the lives of people that are supposed to be and claim to be our allies. Or at least people that we believe are our allies. People we are responsible for and too, having undertaken a mission that has certainly changed in scope from it's original goals.

Truth in advertising, if we really demanded it, would probably require the military to include many hours worth of warnings in their promotional materials. Warnings that military personnel can suffer great financial consequences if called upon, can suffer great physical consequences if called upon, or could suffer fatal blows if called upon. The legalese would be overwhelming and if there for all to see, perhaps no one would join the military as a volunteer at all. Of course were that to happen, a great many people would be very unhappy when the civilian leaders instituted a draft again so that the military could again do whatever job they are called upon to perform.


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## hawk4hire

bdowell - 

Yet you dont jump up and down and demand truth in advertising for (Tivo, AT&T, ALL Political candidates, Cell phone companies, Feminine products, etc.) you only point out the military. So using your arguement - would you buy a hamburger from Wendy's if you saw the cow get slaughtered? Or a BLT from McCalisters if you saw video of the people picking tomatoes, the pigs getting slaughered??? 
We all - have a very comfortable life at the expense of others protecting us - Policemen, Firemen, Military families, or District attorneys.... Most Americans dont want "truth in advertising" because it would have to apply to ALL ads - or would you want the job as censor to decide which ads didnt have to have that "truth meter" applied?


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## terpfan1980

hawk4hire said:


> bdowell -
> 
> Yet you dont jump up and down and demand truth in advertising for (Tivo, AT&T, ALL Political candidates, Cell phone companies, Feminine products, etc.) you only point out the military. So using your arguement - would you buy a hamburger from Wendy's if you saw the cow get slaughtered? Or a BLT from McCalisters if you saw video of the people picking tomatoes, the pigs getting slaughered???
> We all - have a very comfortable life at the expense of others protecting us - Policemen, Firemen, Military families, or District attorneys.... Most Americans dont want "truth in advertising" because it would have to apply to ALL ads - or would you want the job as censor to decide which ads didnt have to have that "truth meter" applied?


Actually you are misreading me, and/or mischaracterizing me, as I would like Truth in Advertising for all, but recognize that it just isn't going to be there.

It's there at times for financial services, or for pharmaceuticals and other selected items, but not for all.

My point in commenting again above is to say that if someone wants to be a jerk and require truth in advertising and apply it to the military then yes, there would be a ton of disclaimers and a lot of unflattering material that would be included with the recruiting materials.

It is very true that just about anything is advertised could have issues with truth in advertising. Why do you or anyone else think we have to see 'Please drink responsibly' at the end of commercials for beer or wine? For the most part it's because Anheuser Busch and their friends don't want to have to put up a 'Blood flows red on the highway' type disclaimer at the end of their ads that show what can happen if you drink and drive.

Advertising is a strange business, but I don't begrudge the military a right to advertise and still think the original poster is making a moutain out something that doesn't even rise to the level of molehill. A military ad on a TiVo is just not an issue that I'd ever think was a problem. Yes the military ad probably shows happy service people trying to look like they'd welcome more people to join them. What would anyone expect?

As I've said above about McDonalds, they do the same thing. Show smiling happy people (not the R.E.M. song by the way) and make it seem that McDonalds is a great place to work. Anyone that has worked at McDonalds can tell you it's hot, it's greasy, you feel like you'll never be able to shower all of the oil and grease off, and you get paid low wages for the work you do relative to a lot of other jobs you could have. But people like the original poster have no problems with McDonalds having the right to advertise on TiVo.

Sorry, but if McDonalds can advertise, or Ford can, or GM can, etc., then I have no problem at all with the military being able to advertise too.


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## hawk4hire

I stand corrected I misread you man... and agree with you..


----------



## riddick21

jeff125va said:


> Perhaps, but the point is that they enlist in the military and put their lives at risk to protect all the freedoms of all Americans (and others). Where and when they do it isn't up to them. Perhaps not every single thing they do has a direct effect on that, but they are dying because of their willingness to dedicate their lives to protecting our freedom, which means going wherever the politicians send them. If they weren't willing to fight the wars you don't consider necessary, they wouldn't be there to fight the ones you do.


I don't need someone else to fight in the wars I consider necessary I love my country and will fight to defend it, but this war is not about defense. There is something seriously wrong with the people and system we have entrusted to run this country. Spending American tax dollars and lives to "free" people who do not want our help is not what I call necessary.


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## Mikkel_Knight

so much for this thread being about actual advertising...

*sigh*


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## TreborPugly

Mikkel_Knight said:


> so much for this thread being about actual advertising...
> 
> *sigh*


Or TiVo...


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## jeff125va

riddick21 said:


> I don't need someone else to fight in the wars I consider necessary I love my country and will fight to defend it, but this war is not about defense. There is something seriously wrong with the people and system we have entrusted to run this country. Spending American tax dollars and lives to "free" people who do not want our help is not what I call necessary.


Since you quoted my post, I'm simply going to say this. I never said anything about any particular war. I was saying it's disparaging to those who join the military to call them murderers or say that they're not defending our freedoms. It belittles their sacrifice. They make it their life's mission to ensure our freedom and survival as a nation. If someone has an issue with a particular mission not being necessary to do that, then the criticism should be focused on the politicians, not on the soldiers, etc. Even if, by logical extension, you believe that they're not defending our freedom in a particular war, why say those things about them?


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## riddick21

I'm not saying the soldiers are murders. I'm sure its kill or be killed in iraq but that doesn't mean we should support the war. The politicians are to blame but a lot of citizens are to blame as well because they are stupid enough to believe this war is about freedom and security.


----------



## gastrof

TheDarb said:


> Hello Tivo. As a parent, I was disappointed and a little upset to find an ad for the US Army and Army reserve on my front Tivo menu this morning. As it is a front menu ad, I am unable to restrict it from being viewed, and I honestly don't want that shown to my child. While the US Armed Services are great establishments and may serve as a means for youth to obtain higher education, the current world climate gives raise to concern for parents wanting to protect their children.
> 
> I would ask that Tivo please remove this ad from it's current distribution channel. Maybe put it back out with parental controls enabled on it, requiring the parent's code to view it.
> 
> I don't object to the US Armed Forces advertising, I only object that I don't have parental control over whether my 13 year old can view it.
> 
> Thank you,
> Brandon Darbro
> Tivo Customer - Series 2


This is a forum for TiVo users, not a means of contacting TiVo.

They don't even run this website.

See at the top of the forum pages? "This site is not part of TiVo, Inc."

TiVo employees may see this thread, they may not.

Since it's a forum for TiVo OWNERS, tho', I'd say attempts to contact the company should be left off this forum, and normal means used. Phone call, letter, whatever.


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## riddick21

As much as I disagree with this war I have to say that the Army ads on TiVo are not glorifying it in anyway. In fact the ads hardly say anything, they just say contact them for more information. Does the OP not want her kids to know that the army exists? because thats pretty much the only thing you get for this ad. Shame on you for requesting censorship.

I wanna add that askewed sounds perfectly rational although he could have choose better words to get his point across. A good soldier doesn't murder, they kill. It's the politicians that are doing the murdering by putting the soldiers in this position. jeff125va I'm sorry but your thought process is what's wrong with this country. Invading another country is not defense and there is nothing wrong with questioning officials in government that have continually lied to us. We went in for WMD's not to liberate but when we didn't find any the story flipped.


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## askewed

riddick21 said:


> I wanna add that askewed sounds perfectly rational.


Hey now!


----------



## askewed

riddick21 said:


> could have choose better words to get his point across. A good soldier doesn't murder, they kill. It's the politicians that are doing the murdering by putting the soldiers in this position.


100% correct. Though of little consequence to the dead and their families.


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## wolflord11

I would rather watch the Army Ads than some of the other ones they are currently playing: Total Utter Garbage!


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## davidlachnicht

While my first response was to rip 'er a new one, I do believe this is a great question: Should TiVo allow parents to block advertising?

Today, it's the US Army, but I could easily see a parent balking at Victoria's Secret or Lunchables or something.

P.S. Go Army! (and Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, and the spookys at CIA) :up: 

I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace. - Thomas Paine


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## TreborPugly

davidlachnicht said:


> While my first response was to rip 'er a new one, I do believe this is a great question: Should TiVo allow parents to block advertising?


As some bright person already mentioned, TiVo Kid Zone lets parents define exactly which shows and which stations kids can watch. I think it's reasonable to assume that appropriate shows have appropriate commercials.

The only exceptions I've seen are some shows like Ninja Warrior, or Mythbusters which show not so great commercials when they are broadcast late at night. My solution for shows like that is to not have them in kidzone, but watch them with my kids, so I can be present to skip over the inappropriate commercials.


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## terpfan1980

Big tip for the original poster and others so inclined -- be careful going to Regal Entertainment Group theatres to see any movies as you very well could find yourself staring at an advertisement for the National Guard.

Said advertisement doesn't just include smiling faces though, as it shows real citizen soldiers that are giving their best through some of the absolute worst conditions, helping to rebuild communities, rescue people that have been victims of floods, hurricanes and other disasters, and showing soldiers loaded with gear marching in formation, or standing in formation in pouring rain and such.

Given the original poster's thoughts about advertising that glorifies military service, they may certainly wish to continue sheltering their prescious and stay far, far away from the theatres (avoiding chances to see movies about Far, Far Away, and about Prescious rings and such) lest they have to spend several hours _deprogramming_ (their word, not mine) their child after venturing into the theatres  .


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## pestilence

to the OP,

it is a sign of the times to be either pro or anti military but as you said your child is 13 do you really hgave that little faith in her that you dont want her to see anything you disagree with? If you have a good relationship with her if she sees something she likes she will discuss it with you and you can tell her how you feel about it. 
The armed forces have been advertising on tv and all medias for as long as I can remember why should they stop just because there is an actual war on? I understand that you dont like the military but stopping it, or anything for that matter, from advertising just because you disagree with the message is censorship plain and simple.


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## visionary

Why does everyone think you must be a front line fighter to be in the military? Here in Norfolk there are like 20,000 people running bases, doing supply, doing classroom training, do medical, there are lots of opportunities. Your daughter could go medical for instance and help those hurt, and be in no jeopardy herself, and later enjoy all those college benefits and perks. The loss of lives in an ill thought plan to rebuild Iraq is sad, but the original war to oust Saddam went great. The military part worked well. Don't be against the military. A person can be for the original war and just against the rebuilding, even though the press never gives anyone that option.


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## FilmCritic3000

Earlier someone posted that the army "hasn't been lowering its standards to meet its quota".

This begs to differ.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/11/MNG03JT3ER1.DTL

Also, here's a little something I experienced last year at the video store I was working at...

We'd only been open three minutes. It was a usual Monday morning and I was checking in DVD rentals and preparing to restock them...

But let me backtrack. That particular video store has another location just a few miles away. I worked there for a year and a half before working at the one where this took place. In mid-2003 at the previous location, two Army recruiters came in and kept trying to get aggressive about recruiting. I told them of my political beliefs, they tried to babble something about college funds, and I told them in no uncertain terms they had to leave; they finally did.

Flash forward to a Monday morning last August. As previously stated, I'm working behind the counter while our manager makes room on the new release wall for tomorrow's new releases. The front door chime sounds as I notice a guy enter. I greet the guy as he enters, then notice he's decked out in tan-colored fatigues. As I ask him if I can help him, I see the business card. He approaches the counter and says, "Have you thought about joining?" I shook my head and said, "I'm not interested." Now I was going to do the standard issue thing here, what we tell anyone who's peddling something: sorry, no soliciting of any kind is allowed in our store.

The recruiter started to launch into his spiel and I stopped him. Normally I'll take any chance I can get to speak my mind. Instead I decided to take the high road. "Look", I said. "I'm anti-war and I'm very liberal. I could stand here and spout platitudes but I'd rather refrain." The recruiter could have left it here. He could have told me to have a nice day and that's that. But he persisted. So I interrupted his prepared speech. I told him that I don't believe that Bush was elected (should have said "he was appointed by the Supreme Court") and that I totally disagree with his foreign policy.

At that moment, I saw a million things in his eyes. I was instantly aware that he knew, at that exact moment, that he was not dealing with someone who lived his life from XBox game to house party, a then twenty-four year old who does not insulate himself from the world at large. In other words, someone who is well-read, engaged, and who pays attention to what the hell's going on in the country and the world. He grew quiet, then said about Bush, "Yeah, well you don't have to worry...he'll be out of office in two years." I replied, "Thankfully."

The recruiter again tried to hand me his business card as he meekly headed for the exit door, asking if he could leave the card with me to give to any interested co-workers. I had to again emphasize that NO SOLICITING is allowed on the premises whatsoever. He AGAIN tried to persist and in a sterner voice I repeated the mantra I'd already told him. He then left, finally. Unfortunately, we're in a shopping center with a Subway, a Big Lots, and many other businesses along the way so I've no doubt he tried his hand elsewhere.

After the recruiter left, I relayed the story to my manager. Without missing a beat, she said I'd handled it well and added, "Did you tell him that this isn't a recruiting station?"

Anyone who's *ever* worn a military uniform deserves our utmost respect. What I, and TheDarb perhaps, have an issue with is the way the military advertises itself in a manner that portrays certain aspects of service in a polished way - case in point, a recent ad showed two young men playing a violent video game and the game asks them, "Are you guys up for a real challenge?" Taking another person's life in a video game has no consequence. Taking another person's life in the combat theater is something totally different, and ads of this sort portray combat as a video game thrill ride.

Children should be taught and told about the military and what it's like and what to expect, if they decide to join. This should be an open discussion with their parents.


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## hawk4hire

Ok so that ad you were talking about - where the kids are playing a video game - I didnt get the same thing out of that ad that you did. My understanding was - "instead of playing video games - join the military and design systems that support the troops." 
I guess I missed the part about the kids killing someone in a video game and the military wanting kids to do the same thing in real life.... hmmmm Did anyone else get THAT connection? 
FC - I appreciate your sentiments and applaud your right to think them - and will not comment about the politics you spewed in your post as that is against this forum rules. I will say that you had all rights to ask that recruiter to leave your store as it was posted no solicitation but I presumed that was no trying to solicit your biz and not your customers.
I think the OP wanted to have control over that ads Tivo places on our boxes and virtually everyone agreed that was not possible, probable nor likely to happen.


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## pdhenry

You don't design systems that support the troops when you join the military. You do stuff with the things other people design - like killing bad guys, for example.


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## pestilence

how little faith you have in your own generation that you think they are all empty headed self insulated loners.


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## Uncle Briggs

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Wow... just wow...


I came into this thread late but Wow... just wow... is putting it mildly. I had to read the OP about 5 times before I could even think about responding. Not wanting your 13 year old child to view an ad for the Armed Forces is bizarre. What else do you shield your child from. Is she aware of Aids or crime or bullying or jealousy or of any other of our culture's little quirks?


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## FilmCritic3000

pestilence said:


> how little faith you have in your own generation that you think they are all empty headed self insulated loners.


Sadly, there are far too many of my generation that are willfully ignorant and have no interest in changing that aspect of their personality. I should know, as when working in customer service I've dealt with a ton of them. There are many bright apples but far too many rotten ones; despite there being some who are actually engaged as a citizen there are still alot that think _American Idol_ or "reality" television in general should receive a Peabody Award (then again, these types don't even know what a Peabody Award is).

Ignorance and apathy are both worthless, and it appalls me that our culture continually fosters those attributes as something to applaud.


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## psyton

gastrof said:


> This is a forum for TiVo users, not a means of contacting TiVo.
> 
> They don't even run this website.
> 
> See at the top of the forum pages? "This site is not part of TiVo, Inc."
> 
> TiVo employees may see this thread, they may not.
> 
> Since it's a forum for TiVo OWNERS, tho', I'd say attempts to contact the company should be left off this forum, and *normal means used. Phone call, letter, whatever*.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5135127&&#post5135127


gastrof said:


> Contact TiVoJerry or TiVoPony or TiVoStephen *here*. They can help in such situations.


Well, which is it? If you're going to be dictating the rules, the least you could do is be consistent.


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## IndyJones1023

psyton said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5135127&&#post5135127 Well, which is it? If you're going to be dictating the rules, the least you could do is be consistent.


I think they help with more technical issues. In order to make requests such as the one in the OP, you'd have to go thru corporate.


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## Philly Bill

TheDarb said:


> Please understand, I'm in no way belittling or trashing the Armed Services. I'm just concerned about access they have to young minds without first going through parents. Some parents will want this for their kids, some parents won't. But it should come through the parents.


Sure sounds like it.

You have nothing to worry about though. They can't actually JOIN the military until they turn 18... and I have a surprise for you. They can - and will - do whatever they want at that point with no concern for what you feel about it.

She's 12? Don't worry about it. I doubt a recruiter will be calling for at least another 5 years.


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## Philly Bill

You know.. I was thinking. How about telling your daughter to not click the yellow star ads because you don't want her to watch them?

If she does so anyway, regardless of what you told her you expected of her, I'd say you have other issues on your hands that are more important than your beef with an Army ad on Tivo.


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## psyton

IndyJones1023 said:


> I think they help with more technical issues. In order to make requests such as the one in the OP, you'd have to go thru corporate.


I beg to differ.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4853214&&#post4853214


TiVoStephen said:


> The rules of what is and isn't allowed on the TiVo support forum are very explicit. *If you have complaints or rants or issues, please post here instead.*


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## IndyJones1023

Well, in the OP, he asks:



TheDarb said:


> I would ask that Tivo please remove this ad from it's current distribution channel.


To me, that goes beyond a complaint, rant, or issue. He's asking for action.


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## psyton

IndyJones1023 said:


> To me, that goes beyond a complaint, rant, or issue. He's asking for action.


  Oh ppuulleeaassee. 

I am willing to wager that if I wanted to waste away the rest of my morning, I can find a post or two somewhere in the dark recesses of the TCF archives that calls for "action" (something along the lines of a request to add some inane feature, perhaps).

Would that suffice?


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## y2klowrider

Come on folks, the BMW advertisement a month or so back didn't show the X5 muddy, or damaged in an accident. 

The Army Strong advertisement isn't going to show the troops blown all to hell like we know happens everyday. Get real, it's a commercial.

This country wasn't born out of peace and love. Our current (boob) and future administrations will continue to send our BRAVE and COURAGEOUS troops all over the world. They will continue (unselfishly) to do the things you won't or can't do, whether you agree or disagree with it.

Sleep well America, your troops guard the gate 24/7.

y2klowrider
Only Child and Retired USAF


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## IndyJones1023

psyton said:


> Oh ppuulleeaassee.
> 
> I am willing to wager that if I wanted to waste away the rest of my morning, I can find a post or two somewhere in the dark recesses of the TCF archives that calls for "action" (something along the lines of a request to add some inane feature, perhaps).
> 
> Would that suffice?


How would finding posts of people asking for change alter the fact that posting such things here isn't the way to go about it?


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## reh523

You pay for cable TV and Sat TV correct. Can you control the ads you child sees?


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## psyton

IndyJones1023 said:


> How would finding posts of people asking for change alter the fact that posting such things here isn't the way to go about it?


Prior precedence. This is the "Suggestion Avenue" after all.

Now, from what I can gather, your objection is this single sentence from the OP (as everything else is a suggestion/complaint/rant/issue)


TheBard said:


> I would ask that Tivo please remove this ad from it's current distribution channel.


Read your own signature lately? Common sense goes a long way in understanding...


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## IndyJones1023

psyton said:


> Prior precedence.  This is the "Suggestion Avenue" after all.
> 
> Now, from what I can gather, your objection is this single sentence from the OP (as everything else is a suggestion/complaint/rant/issue)
> Read your own signature lately? Common sense goes a long way in understanding...


I guess you could use some. Common sense dictates that a change of that magnitude goes thru the corporate machine. Suggestion Avenue is all about "how about a free space indicator?"


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## watcher99

I'd love to be able to 'pull' in ads and put a capacity limit on them, just like regular
programs.

Think of the ads as 'youtube' videos or short TV broadcasts, subject to 
recommendations, or user 'tagging'. A recruiting ad for the military could be
resonably interpreted as advocating violence.

It is ironic that TiVO, a paragon of user controlled TV, SPAMs me with crap which would
normally make my twitchy remote control finger start channel surfing.


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## Mikkel_Knight

watcher99 said:


> A recruiting ad for the military could be
> resonably interpreted as advocating violence.


You're funny...

Stick around the forum and make us laugh even more


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## SullyND

While I don't agree with the request to "remove" this AD (I think the reasoning is faulty, but hey if she wants to isolate her kids so much so be it), I suppose it would be a useful feature to thumbs down an ad and not have it show in Kidzone. I don't know how TiVo could limit such a feature to prevent a user from bypassing ALL ads in KZ, perhaps a limit of the number of ADs not shown, or a requirement that a user watch the full ad before killing it or something.


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## IndyJones1023

I guess people don't realize these are _ads_ they're condemning. Ads you have to _specifically activate_ in order to see. It's not like seeing a random tampon ad pop up and you don't want to have to explain menstruation to your kids. If you're so bad at parenting that you can't keep your kids from clicking on the Gold Star in the TiVo menu, then your problems go way beyond the scope of this thread.


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## psyton

IndyJones1023 said:


> If you're so bad at parenting that you can't keep your kids from clicking on the Gold Star in the TiVo menu, then your problems go way beyond the scope of this thread.


OK, so now you're really not using any common sense. Gold star click == bad parenting? Oh come on, really now, that is absurd. I know you have kids - I read about them all the time down in Happy Hour. You really want to go there?

Did you happen to see the thread where some 3 year old changed the password? Since I would guess you'd equate, in levels of severity, that much worse than a gold star click, what would you recommend for that parent? Flogging in the public square?

Its one thing to disagree, however, hyperbole to this extent is a little much, wouldn't you say?


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## IndyJones1023

Perhaps. No more so than the other hyperbole being thrown in the opposite direction, though.

I look at it this way, if some toddler accidentally finds their way to an Army ad, they're too young to comprehend what it all means, anyway. No harm, no foul.

But, if your kid is freakin' 13-years old and you tell them "gold star is bad, no click" and they do it anyway, then you're dropping the ball as a parent. Instead, you could actual, oh, what do they call it? Oh yeah - be a parent! Sit down with them, actually watch the "offensive" ad in question and explain to them your position and why you find it evil. If you're a good parent in touch with your children, they respect your positions and will do what you say (meaning, not sign up for the army in 5 years). But if you just rant and rave about things that are bad without explaining, then you're letting the Catholic High School Girl loose.


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## pitchford

TheDarb said:


> Hello Tivo. As a parent, I was disappointed and a little upset to find an ad for the US Army and Army reserve on my front Tivo menu this morning. As it is a front menu ad, I am unable to restrict it from being viewed, and I honestly don't want that shown to my child. While the US Armed Services are great establishments and may serve as a means for youth to obtain higher education, the current world climate gives raise to concern for parents wanting to protect their children.
> 
> I would ask that Tivo please remove this ad from it's current distribution channel. Maybe put it back out with parental controls enabled on it, requiring the parent's code to view it.
> 
> I don't object to the US Armed Forces advertising, I only object that I don't have parental control over whether my 13 year old can view it.
> 
> Thank you,
> Brandon Darbro
> Tivo Customer - Series 2


 Well, hopefully you'll be in a situation where you need them in the future, and no one will be there.

Sincerely.


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## Jayboy3

Wow. I was searching for help on another topic and saw this thread. What a revolting thread to start.


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## Adam1115

TheDarb said:


> I would ask that Tivo please remove this ad from it's current distribution channel. Maybe put it back out with parental controls enabled on it, requiring the parent's code to view it.


The ad would never have been seen if you enabled kidzone. Since you didn't properly 'lock down' your tivo, how is this TiVo's problem when they offer an avenue to completely block this from your kids...?


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## daveak

Armed Services ads revolting? Yeah, we do not need a military - let alone anyone who might want to be encouraged to volunteer. Actually, if to few people volunteered they could bring back the draft - and certain posters who never would have volunteered could then be drafted or their kids could be drafted. 

People who would never willingly serve are better off allowing the military to recruit volunteers - so they and their kids will never have to worry about being drafted. That way they can live a carefree life off the blood sacrifices of others. Now that thought is revolting.


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## b_scott

thread is 2.5 years old. why are you bringing this up now.

FYI I agree there should not be armed services ads forced in the now playing or home screen. Same as there should not be those ads at movie theaters where you are forced to watch. It's one thing on TV where you can skip them, but they're right in your face in those places and you have no recourse.


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## Capmeister

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Why do you even let your child watch television? Do you know how impressionable Dora the Explorer is on young girls (and boys)?


Swiper, no swiping!


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## daveak

ferrumpneuma said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if the U.S. armed forces only dealt with protecting freedom for it's people?


Sometimes protecting the freedom of others protects our own freedoms. And when that is open to debate, there is a vote in congress and the people's will is indirectly granted. And sometimes congress even gets it right... 

Though that is not what this thread is really about. The OP wanted to suggest that TiVo not show military ads in the NPL where his child could find them and access them. I never saw him complain about the adult diapers or feminine products, so I guess he is OK with those. And maybe the ads for beer are also OK for his kid(s).

Though, ideally, we would live in a world where we never saw an ad unless we wanted to (hey, if not for some ads there are some things I may never have heard of or even purchased - esp those ads that show the price point I was looking for.)


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