# Crisis on Infinite Earths (CW 2019-2020)



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

A discussion thread was suggested in the Season Pass Alerts thread ( Crisis on Infinite Earths, Dec. 8-10 ), so here one is. We can leave the other thread for scheduling concerns only.

Suggested ground rules: Spoilers permitted for any *aired* episode. (Untagged) Spoilers not permitted from previews, scenes from next week, or the 'Crisis Aftermath' discussion specials. (I have no idea what's going to be in those specials, or how spoilery they might be).

Event Airing Schedule:

Sun Dec 8: 8:00pm - Part One - Supergirl
Mon Dec 9: 8:00pm - Part Two - Batwoman
Tue Dec 10: 8:00pm - Part Three - The Flash
Tue Jan 14: 8:00pm - Part Four - Arrow
Tue Jan 14: 9:00pm - Part Five - Legends of Tomorrow
Discussion Show Schedule: (_Kevin Smith goes behind the scenes of The CW's biggest event yet: Crisis on Infinite Earths._)

Sun Dec 8: 9:00pm - Crisis Aftermath Part I

Tue Dec 10: 9:00pm - Crisis Aftermath Part II
Episodes are available to stream free the day after on The CW App and CWTV.com


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Season passes for the host shows are not picking all of these up reliably. Might want to manually check your Todo lists


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Well that kicked off with a bang. It seems like these crossovers get bigger every year. 

I recognized Burt Ward (60’s Batman) and the guys from Titans (Earth-9), but who were the other special guests in the intro for Batman the Movie (Earth-89) and the flying guy from Earth-X.

Why were a bunch of Voldemorts attacking the quantum tower? 

I’m not sure if Oliver is “dead” dead or just dead for now. I’m also not sure how having him fight for about 10 more seconds somehow saved a billion more people unless that big ship was holding a billion people since there was only one portal to fly through. 

Looking forward to part 2.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

So is Earth 38, the entire setting for SuperGirl, gone? Seems that way. Maybe the show moves into Earth-1 with the rest of the CW?

There was of course Will Wheaton, which was fun.

Flying Earth-X guy was Russell Tovey / Ray (Ray Terrill) - Wikipedia

I had to google the guy from Earth-66 (Burt Ward) to figure out who he was. The voice sounded very familiar, but I couldn't place it, especially from a man of that... size...

Titans from Earth-9 were Hawk and Robin, but have we seen them before, anywhere in the CW universe?

I feel like I should know who the guy from Earth-89 was (Batman setting, reading a newspaper), but I've come up short.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

kdmorse said:


> So is Earth 38, the entire setting for SuperGirl, gone? Seems that way. Maybe the show moves into Earth-1 with the rest of the CW?
> 
> ...
> 
> I feel like I should know who the guy from Earth-89 was (Batman setting, reading a newspaper), but I've come up short.


Yes Supergirl's Earth is gone.

The guy from Earth 89 was Robert Wuhl, who played the reporter guy from the first Batman movie.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

The guy on Earth 89 was Robert Wuhl (probably best known for playing Arliss on Arli$$), who played a newspaper reporter in the first Burton Batman movie. At the start of the movie, he was one of the few people who actually believed that Batman existed.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I came here to ask which was Supergirl’s Earth (the only one of these shows that I actually watch except for these crossovers) but I see it’s been answered in the thread so thanks.

Oh, and I recognized Burt Ward immediately.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

My first thought when I saw Burt Ward was that he was an older Billy Batson.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I knew because I was really into the old campy 60s Batman show.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

kdmorse said:


> Flying Earth-X guy was Russell Tovey / Ray (Ray Terrill) - Wikipedia


I completely forgot he was in last year's crossover.



kdmorse said:


> Titans from Earth-9 were Hawk and Robin, but have we seen them before, anywhere in the CW universe?


Nope, they are in a completely separate universe, though with "infinite universes" I guess they are. I know WB are partial owners of the CW and wholly own DC Comics, but I wonder how much paperwork had to go into getting all those cameos to show up since I'm not even sure who owns the TV rights to all of them.



Hot4Bo said:


> I knew because I was really into the old campy 60s Batman show.


It's a shame Adam West died a few years ago as he likely would have made a cameo if asked.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

morac said:


> I completely forgot he was in last year's crossover.


Two crossovers ago. 
"Crisis on Earth X".
(Last year's was "Elseworlds")

It took me a moment to realize that was Robert Wuhl and he was again playing the Alexander Knox character from the Tim Burton Batman movie but once I realized that, it was easy to recognize Burt Ward and Wil Wheaton.
(Although I don't think I saw a credit for Wheaton where there were ones for Wuhl and Ward.)

A lot to unpack here.
Oliver had a good death scene and a good passing the torch scene to Mia but I'm not sure why the side trip to future Star City/Earth 16 necessary unless something happens with Baby Jonathan down the line.

Speaking of, couldn't help but notice the parallel scenes of Lois and Clark sending off Jonathan with not only Kal-El's own departure from Krypton but Alexander Luthor's departure from Earth 3 in the comics.

So far they seem to have a good job of adjusting the scale of the comic book series to a TV show.
I'm looking forward to the next installment.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

If anyone is bored, going to the arrowverse wiki, looking at the article edit history, and watching peoples edits of all the various impacted pages *as the show was airing*, is kinda amusing. They did not miss a beat in changing Earth-38 from "*is* the home of supergirl", to "*was* the home of supergirl" - then scratching it off the list of multiverse earths.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Thank goodness I stopped watching Supergirl. Are they seriously directing Braniac to act that way?

--Carlos V.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Maybe they should have given Oliver some first aid instead of just letting him die on a table.

They've done a good job of gradually reining in Mia's obnoxiousness in this season's shows.

Where are the evacuated BILLIONS of people supposed to go to? I know it's a comic book show but...

Hopefully, this is the last we see of whiny "You hurt my feelings. We'll never be friends again. I HATE you!" Lena in these five episodes.

So Argo, along with Krypton only built baby sized spaceships? I know it's a comic book show but...

I always get a lol out of characters doing flips for no real reason. Batwoman and Oliver did it a couple of times during the fight scenes.

Alex (Chyler Leigh) has a weird hairdo.

I hoped all five episodes would air this week.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I thought they were going to air all five episodes this week but I only saw three listing in my upcoming recordings. Then I saw the first post here with the last two episodes in January. I knew it was going to be a crossover between the various DC characters but I had assumed that they would introduce Black Lightning into the mix as well considering that there are currently five DC-based characters airing right now (Supergirl, Batwoman, Flash, Arrow, and Black Lightning). I was totally surprised to see the cameos of the Titans. I think this is the first time they have ever had any continuity of characters between the CW shows and any other platform. They completely ignore the TV shows when they make their movies so I was surprised to see the ones from the DCU streaming site.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

mr.unnatural said:


> I thought they were going to air all five episodes this week but I only saw three listing in my upcoming recordings. Then I saw the first post here with the last two episodes in January...


Wait. What? Yesterday, I checked the tivo schedule for this week and only saw the first three shows. I just assumed the two remaining episodes would be next week and didn't check further. I read the first post here but just glossed over the dates for the last two episodes since I assumed they would be next week. I can barely remember what happens on these shows from week to week and now have to wait a month for the two part conclusion? What Brainiac thought up this schedule?


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I can barely remember what happens on these shows from week to week and now have to wait a month for the two part conclusion?


If only there some devices that would let you watch any shows at any time, and not on the whims of the broadcast network. And then when such devices become popular, there would be websites dedicated to discussions about it.

Wouldn't that be grand?


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

I still want to know if there's an InterUniversal council somewhere that decides on the numbering system used for each universe. 
"What do you mean you're Earth 1?, We're the number 1 Earth. Earth 38? Not a chance"


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

I'm bothered by Batwoman being on Earth 1. I thought they defined her Earth in Elseworlds as something else. Putting her on Earth-1 means Batman has been active on Earth-1 and has been missing for 5 years, but none of the other Arrowverse people ever heard of him?

Also, she knows Kara from Earth-38 but has never heard of Green Arrow or Flash from the same Earth she lives on?

I have to assume that Earth-1 placard was a mistake, but they pointed her out as belonging on Earth-1 in the Aftermath show afterwards as well.

Is my memory totally wrong here?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Ereth said:


> I'm bothered by Batwoman being on Earth 1. I thought they defined her Earth in Elseworlds as something else. Putting her on Earth-1 means Batman has been active on Earth-1 and has been missing for 5 years, but none of the other Arrowverse people ever heard of him?
> 
> Also, she knows Kara from Earth-38 but has never heard of Green Arrow or Flash from the same Earth she lives on?
> 
> ...


I thought they met her last year after going to Gotham on Earth-1 to get info from Vesper Fairchild.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would have sworn that was a Gotham on a different Earth from Barry and Oliver and also different from Kara.


Edit: I guess I'm wrong. All the web sites I checked shows it being Earth-1. Oliver and Barry were arguing over whether Batman was real or not. I just remembered it wrong. The introduction of THAT particular Gotham into the same Earth as the Flash is rather jarring, though.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

morac said:


> It's a shame Adam West died a few years ago as he likely would have made a cameo if asked.


He probably would have shown up even if he _hadn't_ been asked.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I haven't watched much tv in about 2.5 years. I had given up on Arrow a couple years before that. But this series has me excited: any recommendations on what to watch to get myself ready for these? The last crossover I saw was Flash on Supergirl (I don't think it was a whole crossover event.)


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> I haven't watched much tv in about 2.5 years. I had given up on Arrow a couple years before that. But this series has me excited: any recommendations on what to watch to get myself ready for these? The last crossover I saw was Flash on Supergirl (I don't think it was a whole crossover event.)


It's kind of hard to recommend specific episodes as they've been building to this for at least 2 seasons with The Monitor showing up periodically on the various shows since Elsewhere.

That said, they've given you all the info you really need to know in the first episode. Crisis, blah blah, Flash newspaper article, blah, blah, etc.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

OK. I haven't watched any Batwoman, and very few episodes of Legends of Tomorrow. I don't see Wally West in any of the promos: is he still around?


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

Philosofy said:


> OK. I haven't watched any Batwoman, and very few episodes of Legends of Tomorrow. I don't see Wally West in any of the promos: is he still around?


Wally West moved to Legends Of Tomorrow but that was only through 2018 and I cant remember why he left


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm surprised they didn't have a Linda Carter cameo with her doing Earth-77.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Crow159 (Jul 28, 2004)

Michael S said:


> I'm surprised they didn't have a Linda Carter cameo with her doing Earth-77.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It would probably be a little confusing because Linda Carter was the President of the US in Supergirl.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Eh, they've established that Doppelgangers can be completely different. Jay Garrick looks exactly like Barry Allens dad, and Jays new female friend Joan looks just like Barry's mom. Not to mention the infinite different versions of Harrison Wells.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> I haven't watched much tv in about 2.5 years. I had given up on Arrow a couple years before that. But this series has me excited: any recommendations on what to watch to get myself ready for these? The last crossover I saw was Flash on Supergirl (I don't think it was a whole crossover event.)


I suggest watching last year's crossover event, Elseworlds.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

morac said:


> I completely forgot he was in last year's crossover.
> 
> Nope, they are in a completely separate universe, though with "infinite universes" I guess they are. I know WB are partial owners of the CW and wholly own DC Comics, but I wonder how much paperwork had to go into getting all those cameos to show up since I'm not even sure who owns the TV rights to all of them.


The Arrowverse is not a single universe. It is basically everything DC on TV these days. And now they've established that all movies and tv series are in the Arrowverse.

If they follow the comic:



Spoiler



whoever is left will be on one earth


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> I suggest watching last year's crossover event, Elseworlds.


Do Elseworlds then all of Arrow and Flash from this season. Supergirl is less important to this story and Batwoman has no real connections.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Clark Kent on Earth 167 in Smallville looks so familiar. Can somebody tell me the actor’s name, please?


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Hot4Bo said:


> Clark Kent on Earth 167 in Smallville looks so familiar. Can somebody tell me the actor's name, please?


Tom Welling aka Clark Kent from tv series Smallville


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

osu1991 said:


> Tom Welling aka Clark Kent from tv series Smallville


Thanks. I looked him up on IMDb since I've never watched Smallville. I guess I don't know him since I've never watched anything that he's been in.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Hot4Bo said:


> Thanks. I looked him up on IMDb since I've never watched Smallville. I guess I don't know him since I've never watched anything that he's been in.


He was the one that the trailers spoiled so I knew he was going to be in Crisis. I was expecting a brief cameo, so I was surprise he got a fairly lengthy scene. Also Erica Durance was back as Lois Lane.

I also knew that Kevin Conroy would be playing Batman from reading about it earlier this year. He voiced Batman on Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League and nearly every other DC animated show for over a decade. Oddly he didn't use his Batman voice. Overall I was disappointed with his performance here.

And of course Brandon Routh played Superman in the Superman Returns which is in the same continuity as the original Superman movie. Hence the quip about fighting himself, which happened in Superman 3.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I don't know any of these people with the exception of Brandon Routh. I only watch "Super" things and even then, only certain ones, I guess. I am really enjoying this though like I did for the last crossovers.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

So that’s how Jonah Hex gets his scar? Yeesh.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Graymalkin said:


> So that's how Jonah Hex gets his scar? Yeesh.


In that universe.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

osu1991 said:


> Tom Welling aka Clark Kent from tv series Smallville


They stuck to the "no flights, no tights" mantra is Smallville.

Also love how they directly took on the Brandon Routh thing. They could have easily skipped that superman or kept Atom out of the series.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

morac said:


> I also knew that Kevin Conroy would be playing Batman from reading about it earlier this year. He voiced Batman on Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League and nearly every other DC animated show for over a decade. Oddly he didn't use his Batman voice. Overall I was disappointed with his performance here.


I disagree. 
Conroy did use his "Batman" voice or at least the first version of it that he used in the FOX kids Batman animated series, although it was a little inconsistent.
Some lines were pure Batman voice though.
Wonder why Kate helped herself to some kryptonite though.
Maybe she's more like Bruce than she realizes.

I thought that the Paragons might be representatives of the Emotional Spectrum but Courage ain't one of them.
(Although the Monitor mentioned a "Book of the Guardians"?)

Thought that the "Superman Quest" was great.
As was Kara's "Woah Ray, you are looking jacked."

BTW, tonight's episode of of Black Lightning while not a required episode could be considered a "tie in" episode as


Spoiler: Black Lightning episode for 12/09



red skies hit Freeland and cause Jennifer's powers to go out of whack.
From what I gather, Black Lightning's earth is a different one that gets hit with the anti-matter wave right after Jefferson is pulled out by the Monitor's teleporter.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

John Constantine was the best part of the second episode.

Is there a comic book reason why Luke Fox's abs were so prominently on display during his scenes?

I let out a "Finally!" when Lois whopped Lex upside his head when he wasn't looking instead of just standing around.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> They stuck to the "no flights, no tights" mantra is Smallville.
> 
> Also love how they directly took on the Brandon Routh thing. They could have easily skipped that superman or kept Atom out of the series.


I also love how Routh fell right into his Superman/Clark rhythms


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Did anyone else notice that when Conroy's Batman explained why he killed that Earth's Superman, he was citing the opening lines to the original "Adventures of Superman" TV series from the 1950s?

"Strange visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men."


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

And Supergirl using Christopher Reeve's superman's line calling Lex Luthor a poisonous snake.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

What exactly was Lex's role to play? Just eliminating a lot of Supermans so that they did not have so many candidates to interview? It certainly was not to galvanize the Paragon into action since that one was good to go the instant they told him of the multiverse needing saving.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

Since I don't watch Arrow or The flash(anymore), who is the woman that brought them together (Harbinger?). Some of them seem to have recognized her.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> I also love how Routh fell right into his Superman/Clark rhythms


And they used the John Williams Superman theme for his music!!!



Graymalkin said:


> Did anyone else notice that when Conroy's Batman explained why he killed that Earth's Superman, he was citing the opening lines to the original "Adventures of Superman" TV series from the 1950s?
> 
> "Strange visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men."


Yep caught that immediately. Great homage.



NJChris said:


> And Supergirl using Christopher Reeve's superman's line calling Lex Luthor a poisonous snake.


I also liked Routh's call back to Superman IV when he fought himself. "It's not the first time I've gone nuts and fought myself."

Not being a close follower of the DC verse these days, I have only a passing knowledge of Constantine and Jonah Hex, and no one really from the other shows besides Flash.

I really hope they are able to find a way to include a call back to Wonder Woman.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

NJChris said:


> Since I don't watch Arrow or The flash(anymore), who is the woman that brought them together (Harbinger?). Some of them seem to have recognized her.


John Diggle's wife Lila. Current head of A.R.G.U.S.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

NJChris said:


> Since I don't watch Arrow or The flash(anymore), who is the woman that brought them together (Harbinger?). Some of them seem to have recognized her.


The Harbinger was originally Lyla Michaels who was initially an agent for A.R.G.U.S. and late became its leader. She is John Diggle's wife. An interesting bit of trivia is that whie the Monitor turned her into Harbinger now if you go back to when she was just an A.R.G.U.S. agent her code name was Harbinger


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tigercat74 said:


> John Diggle's wife Lila. Current head of A.R.G.U.S.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Which is kind of cute because the Lyla was the original Harbinger in the comic book.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

JYoung said:


> I disagree.
> Conroy did use his "Batman" voice or at least the first version of it that he used in the FOX kids Batman animated series, although it was a little inconsistent.
> Some lines were pure Batman voice though.


I tried closing my eyes, trying to hear the lines as if they were coming from "Batman" and it kind of did, but it wasn't as iconic as he was. It sounded kind of like someone doing a bad imitation of Conroy's Batman. I don't know if he's getting older or he was directed to tone it down, but it was kind of off. I know Conroy used a slightly different voice for Bruce Wayne and Batman, so it's possible he was using his Bruce Wayne voice. I'll need to go back and watch B:TAS to check.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

It’s Lucifer! Was not expecting that.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Ashley Scott in the beginning from 2002’s WB show Birds of Prey.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

All I can say is wow! This episode was a step up from yesterday. I was not expecting Lex to show up at the end. Speaking of the unexpected.



Graymalkin said:


> It's Lucifer! Was not expecting that.


Yeah that was completely unexpected in a good way.



osu1991 said:


> Ashley Scott in the beginning from 2002's WB show Birds of Prey.


Likewise.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Has anyone watched the Crisis Aftermath shows? Is there anything worth watching them for, or is it just another show like Talking Dead with a bunch of actors sitting around talking?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

getbak said:


> or is it just another show like Talking Dead with a bunch of actors sitting around talking?


Yes.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Graymalkin said:


> It's Lucifer! Was not expecting that.


When they panned over LUX, I was waiting for it to happen. Of course he had to be Constantine's "buddy". Odd seeing Luci in CW production values, though. It was jarring because they used a standard "Lucifer" overhead shot for LUX and didn't fuzz it down or change the color gamut.

--Carlos V.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

getbak said:


> Has anyone watched the Crisis Aftermath shows? Is there anything worth watching them for, or is it just another show like Talking Dead with a bunch of actors sitting around talking?


Actors and producers talking with Kevin Smith about the show.
I personally find it interesting to see Jon Cryer talk about playing Lex Luthor (and apologizing for Superman IV) and Kevin Conroy reading tweets as Batman but YMMV.

(Although I kind of wish they had shown Lex killing a couple of Supermen played by Gerald Christopher and John Newton.)

Another episode chock full of stuff from going to Purgatory to find Oliver's soul (it would have been funny to see the Winchester Brothers there) and meeting Jim Corrigan to Black Lightning and Team Flash stopping the antimatter cannon.

Once they explained the deathtrap of the cannon, I knew that Earth-90 Flash was going to take one for the team.
(And no, I didn't miss that he said his wife was Tina.)
Still it was a little dusty here when Barry did his final run.

Loved Tom Ellis's scene 
Did not expect to see Lex Luthor substitute himself in for Routh Superman so praise to the writers for that.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Graymalkin said:


> It's Lucifer! Was not expecting that.


From Earth-666!

I guess it can't happen now but I would have loved to see Sam and Dean Winchester make a cameo.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

So far, it seems to me that there was a lot of stuff left on the editing floor. There were some really disjointed scenes in the 3 episodes. Like "how did they get from point a to point b?" type disjoints. Not characters physically moving from place to place, but story-wise. 

--Carlos V.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

The big problem with this is that there's so much stuff crammed into each episode that the story is barely coherent.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I did like how they took a clip from the original Flash (assuming as I didn't watch it) tv show.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The size difference between the two Supermans was jarring.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> The size difference between the two Supermans was jarring.


As was Brandon Routh's padding.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Nice to see closure on John Wesly-Shipp's Flash. I did not expect Luthor to show up at the end like that. Since I don't watch Supergirl, I had no idea of Cryer's take on the character before this. I have to say I like it a lot. 

I wish they could've gotten Dean Cain's Supes in there somehow, but that's asking too much.

Can I say just how much I hate Kevin Smith in the Aftermath show? His voice and constant shouting grate on me to no end.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I had completely forgotten that Jon Cryer was in Superman IV. Now I remember how awful he was. Since Brandon Routh was playing the same Superman as Christopher Reeve, he should have done a double take and said, "Lenny?"


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I'm not having any problems following the story, and I'm


Craigbob said:


> Can I say just how much I hate Kevin Smith in the Aftermath show? His voice and constant shouting grate on me to no end.


And he needs to figure out something else to do with his hands than those stupid gestures. Too deliberate and not natural looking at all.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I guess I’m going to have to plow through the original Crisis comics over the holidays. Maybe the follow up crisis, also.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> I wish they could've gotten Dean Cain's Supes in there somehow, but that's asking too much.


Cain was recurring on Supergirl for a bit but he hasn't been on in a couple of years.
(I suspect that he and the producers had "creative differences".)

I did want to see Earth-52 though.
The one where Superman looks like this.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Are the Earth Numbers, corresponding to DC movies & TV shows released in those years, just a little easter egg, or was something like that done in the comics?

-smak-


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

smak said:


> Are the Earth Numbers, corresponding to DC movies & TV shows released in those years, just a little easter egg, or was something like that done in the comics?
> 
> -smak-


It was a system implemented for the crossover. Comics didn't have a real system except for a couple as it grew generically. The tv shows only named a couple so they could arbitrarily name the additional ones like 66, etc.

Multiverse (DC Comics) - Wikipedia


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> It was a system implemented for the crossover. Comics didn't have a real system except for a couple as it grew generically.


That used to be true, but after the Flashpoint event in 2011, there was a very specific group of 52 universes in the DC Multiverse.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That used to be true, but after the Flashpoint event in 2011, there was a very specific group of 52 universes in the DC Multiverse.


The numbering is still ragged though which is what I'm addressing. Plus Rebirth undid the New 52 without specifically giving a set of universes.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

And who shows up ? Lucifer ! on Earth - 666 no less.  And they were true to the character right down to "What is it you truly desire". Many Earths, one devil ?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

So I was rewatching the Earth-666 intro and in the opening shot there is a billboard for “Watchmen” complete with a squid logo. I missed that the first time. 

Presumably that’s a real billboard ad for the HBO show, though HBO doesn’t show up. Either they edited that out or the billboard was replaced. 

The little Easter eggs they put in these episodes are fun to find.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

kdmorse said:


> So I'm assuming they destroy the universe at the end of Part 3, leave us hanging for a month, then fix everything in January.


i was looking at the other thread and found this. Moved the quote here for spoilers, I would say you were fairly accurate. Of course we know they will fix everything or how would the show continue?


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

The cameos are fun. Storywise, I find myself getting caught up in comparing and contrasting it to the comics. They do have me eager to find out: after this is over, how much(if anything) of the stories/characters/relationships we've seen so far across all shows "really happened"? Like the comic book crisis spent a year or two afterward creating new origin stories...

Some adaptations I found interesting/creative like finding ways to use existing cast for Harbinger and Pariah. Also, adapting the story from the comics A-List to the Arrowverse A-List.

Some bother me a little - wt* is a "paragon"? I think I read that was inspired by a completely different storyline. (There wasn't enough story in the original crisis to draw from?) Also, the order of events feels a little off.
Also, how do you fit 3 billion people from one world into another, many of which probably have dopplegangers...

Others feel like a complete cop-out - swapping Barry Allens at the last minute. Kevin Smith was just gushing about it in the Aftershow, but I thought it was anti-climatic. Flash writers have been teasing this since the pilot, and in the end, it's not even our Barry? Like um... "just kidding."
To me, it felt like they really had no idea how they were going to resolve it until this season and just wrote themselves into a corner.
I wanted a couple more (to me) iconic moments form the comics:


Spoiler: From the comics,



I wanted to see a a scene of Flash using Psycho Pirate to immobilize anti-monitor's henchmen to get to the cannon, especially since they've had Psycho Pirate in the show and alluded to this.
Then as he runs to his death, he briefly appears for a couple seconds to random others(like Batman), going back in time. But by switching Barrys, they couldn't do this without giving it away.
Marv Wolfman hinted that he left an out if they wanted to keep Barry, and I think I've read what it was, so I think they could have had our Barry make the sacrifice. And even without that, the comics found another way(though I don't know how) to bring him back.



But the "cameo" I'm most excited about is: I've read part 4 (next episode) is co-written by Marv Wolfman, writer of the original crisis.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I’m willing to be not much really changes in the end except they are all on the same earth. After all, they treated a sex change of Diggle’s baby as huge from Flashpoint and pretty much rectified everything else in one week.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

What about Oliver? There are only 3 more episodes in the series, so I doubt he will be return as the Green Arrow. Perhaps he will appear in the final episodes as the Spectre...


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I think the next 3 episode should might be more focused.. I mean ALL the other Earths have been destroyed, & only characters that made it to the Vanishing Point (outside of space and time) are around (other than Brandon Routh's Superman being written out..)


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

alpacaboy said:


> But the "cameo" I'm most excited about is: I've read part 4 (next episode) is co-written by Marv Wolfman, writer of the original crisis.


He also co-wrote the 2 tie-in comics. The first one is out at Wal-Mart now. (Comic shops will get it later)


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I noticed that the original comic book series is available on the DC Universe streaming service.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

It's also available here:

You searched for crisis on infinite earths - GetComics


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

I see that the episodes already aired will repeat over the next week. I'll just go ahead with what I already recorded.

As I stated in the Season Pass Alerts thread I started, I only watch "The Flash" and "Supergirl" because I consider the other shows too dark. And the two series I do watch have moved in that direction at times. I'm not familiar with "Legends of Tomorrow" but I've only watched it when there were crossover events.

So the question was asked on that other thread if I need to be familiar with anything that happened on the other series.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

HarleyRandom said:


> I see that the episodes already aired will repeat over the next week. I'll just go ahead with what I already recorded.
> 
> As I stated in the Season Pass Alerts thread I started, I only watch "The Flash" and "Supergirl" because I consider the other shows too dark. And the two series I do watch have moved in that direction at times. I'm not familiar with "Legends of Tomorrow" but I've only watched it when there were crossover events.
> 
> So the question was asked on that other thread if I need to be familiar with anything that happened on the other series.


Like you, I only watch Supergirl (not The Flash though) with the others only for crossovers. I am loving this crossover. I don't feel like I am missing anything but I also feel that if I ever do, I can come here to ask about it.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

HarleyRandom said:


> So the question was asked on that other thread if I need to be familiar with anything that happened on the other series.


No, they cover the most important stuff in the "previously on" part, though you will undoubtedly miss some of the nuances of the situations. NBD, though...


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

HarleyRandom said:


> I only watch "The Flash" and "Supergirl" because I consider the other shows too dark.


I don't consider "Legends" dark, though I don't watch it regularly. It's almost a comedy at times.

Really looking forward to the last two Crisis episodes.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> I don't consider "Legends" dark, though I don't watch it regularly. It's almost a comedy at times.


Yeah, "dark" is not a phrase I'd ever use for the Legends, after they decided to just let the crazy fly in season 2-3 they've been hitting on all cylinders, I mean saving Barack Obama from Gorilla Grodd? Heart eating unicorns that gore people and have hallucinogenic glitter snot? They long ago stopped taking themselves seriously.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Beebo! 

Legends has become, somewhat to my surprise, my hands-down favorite of the CW superhero shows. Although that's in part less an endorsement of Legends than a measure of how far some of the other shows have fallen.

But it's in part an endorsement of Legends, which has risen as its stablemates have fallen.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

In all honesty, if it weren't for Caiy Lotz/Sarah Lance and the occasional guest spot by John Constantine, I'd dump Legends. Very few of the characters are anywhere close to being interesting..


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

Agreed. After Season 1, I thought Legends got overwhelmingly stupid/goofy.
I'm in the same boat - if it wasn't for Caity Lotz, I'd be out.
I was getting tired of Arrow, but this season, I feel like it's picked up, basically being a farewell tour, and felt like the strongest lead-into Crisis.
I'm already tired of Flash. Ironically, it can't go fast enough for me. I usually fast forward and just watch the last 15 min.
Still in for Supergirl, but this season and last season have started getting tiring to watch. Overall, I think it's still my favorite.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

If you haven't found the listings already, looks like the final 2 Crisis eps are next Tuesday (the 14th) starting at 8 eastern. Legends followed by Arrow.


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## KDeFlane (Jan 29, 2014)

Peter000 said:


> If you haven't found the listings already, looks like the final 2 Crisis eps are next Tuesday (the 14th) starting at 8 eastern. Legends followed by Arrow.


checking a Gracenote listing: 
"Crisis part 3" reair is Monday the 13th inside Flash, followed by that Aftermath fan show, then
"Crisis part 4" in Arrow on Tuesday the 14th, followed by
"Crisis part 5" in Legends.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

I caught the end of I think part 4... three instances of the same black woman arguing with each other. OMG the special effects were horrible. It was like watching 1980s afterschool specials


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

martinp13 said:


> I caught the end of I think part 4... three instances of the same black woman arguing with each other. OMG the special effects were horrible. It was like watching 1980s afterschool specials


Part 4 hasn't aired yet.
I think what you saw was the last new episode of Black Lightning.

Which was a Crisis "tie-in" episode but not an official crossover episode.
(And I don't think the episode makes a lot of sense if you haven't been watching the show regularly.)


----------



## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

osu1991 said:


> Tom Welling aka Clark Kent from tv series Smallville


Oh, thanks. That whole Brawny scene seemed pointless except for the fact that I liked seeing Lex not be able to kill this Superman.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

morac said:


> And of course Brandon Routh played Superman in the Superman Returns which is in the same continuity as the original Superman movie. Hence the quip about fighting himself, which happened in Superman 3.


Again, none of this made sense as I watched it. Now I have a better idea what's going on.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Oops. I should have stopped reading because some of that I haven't seen yet.

I am thoroughly confused because many of you know so much about this stuff and I know next to nothing. I haven't really been enjoying this because I'm not a comic book nerd and not really a fan of superheroes. But what appealed to me were the more pleasant scenes like Lois and Superman with the baby (that didn't last long) and Brawny and his wife and Lex on the farm. And while I only saw what I believed to be Christopher Reeve's hairstyle when Superman met Superman, I knew Reeve was not only paralyzed but deceased, and too old for the role anyway. I liked the scenes with that Superman for some reason, and I liked them ever better when it became clear he looked like the scientist back on … Earth-1? I don't know. 

And I loved Supergirl's reaction to her good-looking "cousin". 

I liked the tough-looking bald man being so tender taking care of the baby. Really, any scenes with the baby.

Kate said "I don't like her". Am I remembering that? I forget who she said that to, but that makes us even. I don't like her either. I really didn't like Batman. I was wishing Adam West were still alive but he would have been too old. I just would have liked to see him. Someone who posted here said Burt Ward was there. Okay … A bunch of other people had cameos which meant nothing to me.

Anyway, most of you enjoyed it. I'm finding it kind of interesting. But 3 billion people dead and Oliver dies to save 1 billion? Yeah, I'm hoping they can reverse everything. I'm looking forward to "The Flash" tonight. And I'm still on the fence about "Black Lightning". I'm not clear on whether I need to watch or not.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

HarleyRandom said:


> But 3 billion people dead and Oliver dies to save 1 billion?


And those 1 billion "saved" ended up dying anyway...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

HarleyRandom said:


> And I'm still on the fence about "Black Lightning". I'm not clear on whether I need to watch or not.


You don't need to as it's not one of the official "crisis" episodes.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

morac said:


> You don't need to as it's not one of the official "crisis" episodes.


Good, because I started watching and it's not the kind of thing I would like at all.

So, the "Flash" episode ended up being pretty much what I expected. I wish there had been more humor because that's what I like about the series, and I wish they had spent more time with the characters I liked. But mostly this was just about saving all the Earths including their own. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would, especially when the older Flash sacrificed himself for young Flash. We couldn't lose our Barry! How could the series even continue?

In fact, how can any of them continue? They're all gone! These writers have written themselves into a hole they can't get out of.

Unless it's true they can go back and restore everything the way it was. And we've got two episodes tonight where that has to happen.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

I watched the first three parts when they first aired, but I'm going to re-watch them tonight before watching the last two. I watch Batwoman, Supergirl, Flash, Arrow, and Legends anyway, but these shows are my first exposure to DC's Crisis, so it's all new to me. Not exactly a fan so far. Maybe after all five parts I'll change my mind.

I also watch Black Lightning, and none of the characters from the crossover shows appear on it. So you're not missing anything if you don't watch BL.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

OK, I was not expecting *that* particular Flash to show up.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Marv Wolfman!


----------



## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Not the JLA — but Super Friends? Seriously?


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Graymalkin said:


> Not the JLA - but Super Friends? Seriously?


Gleek sounded an awful lot like the Joker.

Delightful ending. 

Getting there was a bit of a slog at times though.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I enjoyed seeing cameos from the DC Universe shows (_Titans_, _Doom Patrol_, _Swamp Thing_ and the upcoming _Stargir_l)


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

So anyone with a series ended up on this one Earth? What about normal folks? I wonder how the rules worked for that?


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> The numbering is still ragged though which is what I'm addressing. Plus Rebirth undid the New 52 without specifically giving a set of universes.


Did you read Doomsday Clock? It just finished this past December, and the multiverse expanded even more. It established the true nature of the main DC universe, and even glimpsed into the future and named future crises that will reboot it even further.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I binge-watched the first three episodes before the holidays, and just watched the final two tonight. Overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit. As expected, it stretched the bounds of believability even beyond comic book standards, but it also surprised the heck out of me sometimes. The cameos were WONDERFUL! How much are we allowed to say here?

I LOVED Tom Welling's appearance. Smallville strayed too long in, well, Smallville, but Tom Welling did an impeccable Clark Kent/Superman. The writers gave him that sense of altruism and righteousness and morals that Clark should have, and seeing Wellilng again in that role, along with Erica Durance, was awesome. It was even fitting that they managed to keep the "no tights/no flights" concept going.

Burt Ward was a pleasant surprise, as was all of the other cameos and appearances from all of the other media appearances of DC heroes. Earth-666 with Lucifer was freaking awsesome! I forgot about that show. I loved the first season, I'm gonna start binge-watching the rest.

And whoa! I too did not expect _that_ Flash. What a great surprise!!!!

While the writers of Arrowverse tend to really not care about things like believability (even comic-book-standard levels), the broad way they encompassed so many incarnations of DC heroes on media was amazing. And I was surprised at how many scenes faithfully replicated the original Crisis on Infinite Earths story. The Shadow Demons, the look of the Monitor and Lyla and Pariah, and many individual scenes. For instance...



Spoiler



The Flash sacrificing himself. It was very fitting they used the original Flash to do it. It replicated what happened in the original story to a very large degree. The original Flash (well, the original Silver Age Flash) died in a very similar way, and the fact they used the closest thing to the Silver Age Flash (the first Flash to play in his own series) with a costume very close to the comics was very nicely done!

The monitor growing very large. The combination of the various universes... so much of it was pulled right from the original story. Kudos!

And I loved the ending and the creation of the new Justice League headquarters!
Black Lightning: Is this necessary? I mean, how often does the world almost come to an end?
(Everyone starts shuffling their feet and looking the other way)
Black Lightning: Oh. It's like that.

And I did a jaw-drop when the DCEU Flash showed up. Loved how they each liked the other's outfit!



It was not great writing, but was still fun, and the peeks at all of the other DC properties and shows and movies was delightful!

It's a shame Adam West isn't with us. Him with Burt Ward would have been great. For Christmas this year, my nephews got me a limited edition Joker statue. Only 1,966 were made. It goes with my similar Batman statue they got me last year. Both are from the 1966 TV show and have an AMAZING level of detail.










Cesar Romero's gloves are cycling gloves with straps that are buttoned closed, and you can see his mustache under the whiteface. There are seams in the clothing for both characters. The airbrushing is so good, it looks like there's texture even when there isn't. 
​


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I'll read the rest of this thread later, but I'm now almost at the end of part 3. What did Black Lightning mean by "so the Superman thing is real?"?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I guess that there was some question of whether or not Superman was real on what was Black Lightning's Earth.
(Although there was a mention of both Supergirl and Vixen in a previous episode of Black Lightning.)

Ok, I didn't know about Ezra Miller's cameo which I liked even though I have mixed feelings (at best) about the "Snyderverse".
(Although I would have preferred him appearing on the Flash and not Arrow but I suppose this worked out the best.)
And I wish they could have used the Trickster instead of Weather Witch.

I laughed when Beebo appeared.

Also note that the older gentleman asking Kara and Barry for autographs was Marv Wolfman.

So not only was the Universe reborn but it was the Multiverse albeit with some changes, mostly with Earth-1, Earth-38, and Black Lightning's Earth were merged into Earth-Prime.

All and all, a reasonable adaptation of the story for television that also happened to be a lot of fun.

In case you were wondering what Earth was what at the end:



> *Earth-2: *Home of _Stargirl_, the forthcoming superhero show that will air on both DC Universe and the CW. Executive produced by Greg Berlanti and showrunner Geoff Johns, the show stars Brec Bassinger as the titular hero and Luke Wilson as her sidekick in a giant robot suit.
> 
> *Earth-12: *This is where 2011's _Green Lantern_ movie, which crossover executive producers Marc Guggenheim and Greg Berlanti co-wrote, is now set. What a retcon!
> 
> ...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Looks like they decided that matter + anti-matter doesn't result in annihilation in the last two episodes.

Anti-Monitor's wraiths weren't exactly the most fearsome group of henchmen. They could be hurt with a punch or a hit by a stick.

It'll be interesting to see how Stargirl is handled. DC Uuniverse's language choices are much more "spicy" than what appears on the CW.

All the superheroes are on the same earth now? Kinda cheapens future cross overs?

I know Lex Luther is a huge figure in the DC Universe but I spent large parts of this event hoping somebody would kill him.

They could have picked a more interesting, more familiar human paragon than the guy with the beard whose name I can't remember.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Any chance earth-12 is the new HBO Max Green Lantern series rather than the movie?


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

I had to go to Wikipedia to find out more about Ryan Choi. In the comics, he starts off as Ray Palmer's successor as the Atom. But there have been a few retcons since then. And Wiki says he's in the Flash TV series as the creator of Barry's future suit. So who knows which version of him they're planning to go with?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

cheesesteak said:


> Looks like they decided that matter + anti-matter doesn't result in annihilation in the last two episodes..


And yet they were afraid to throw the Anti-Monitor into the Sun. (Every second 5 million tonnes of matter is converted to energy in our Sun; nobody would notice if an Aniti-Monitor was added for one of those seconds.)


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

I'm in the minority here I guess, but wow-- I thought those last two episodes were bad. Like REALLY REALLY bad. I enjoyed the cameos, in particular the THAT Flash one, but it made no sense at all. I could barely follow it, and I've read the source material many times.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

David Platt said:


> I'm in the minority here I guess, but wow-- I thought those last two episodes were bad. Like REALLY REALLY bad.


I thought they were really bad too.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

SullyND said:


> I thought they were really bad too.


Like the part where they created a new universe by focusing real hard?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I thought it was weird that Black Lightning got folded into the new "main" universe, instead of getting his own like all the other DC shows. Well, not really (I assume it was editorial fiat by the producers), but in-story it didn't make sense (one can assume that the others were united because people from each of those universes were involved in the creation of the new one).


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I thought the last two episodes were interesting, even if not that spectacular. It appears that all of the DC characters are now on the same Earth after the reboot so I would expect to see a lot more crossovers between the various shows. I never understood why they weren't on the same earth from the beginning, but I haven't read a DC comic in decades.

The one nitpick I always had with DC was that they had no continuity between their movie and TV characters. Seeing the Flash from the Justice League movie was a nice touch. I also caught the brief glimpse of the Green Lantern so it will be interesting to see if they're bringing him into the DCU with his own series. I also saw the Doom Patrol, Titan, and Swamp Thing cameos so kudos to DC for that. This 5-part series was more of a who's who in the DCU to showcase all of their characters.

I'm getting conflicting reports about Stargirl. She was originally supposed to be in her own series on the DCU streaming service. Now I'm seeing where she may be part of the CW DCU or possibly both. It will be interesting to see where things go from here.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> I thought the last two episodes were interesting, even if not that spectacular. It appears that all of the DC characters are now on the same Earth after the reboot so I would expect to see a lot more crossovers between the various shows. I never understood why they weren't on the same earth from the beginning, but I haven't read a DC comic in decades.


Supergirl was on a different network until last year. Black Lightning had such a different tone, it probably didn't seem appropriate to put it in the same universe as Flash and Arrow.

Stargirl is DCU, but her episodes will also air on CW (I think a day later). From Crisis, it's clear she will remain on another Earth.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

And Green Lantern is getting a series on HBO Max. 

I think one of the reasons for the separate earths was that when Supergirl started, it was clear on that show that Superman had been active, and it would be difficult to explain his absence from Arrow & Flash.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

realityboy said:


> I think one of the reasons for the separate earths was that when Supergirl started, it was clear on that show that Superman had been active, and it would be difficult to explain his absence from Arrow & Flash.


And also, Supergirl was on another network.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but along with "Stargirl", there are plans for two new series:

Potential Spoilers


Spoiler



- "Superman & Lois" - with the two existing character, but more family focused with their two kids

- New Team Arrow / Birds of Prey - with Mia Smoak, the two Canaries (Laurel Lance and Dinah Drake), and Felicity Smoak as Overwatch


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And also, Supergirl was on another network.


I'm sure that didn't help although it still had a crossover with Flash when it was on CBS. It was also shot in LA for the first season which probably made crossovers difficult. Seasons 2-5 (The CW seasons) have been in Vancouver so I imagine it's much easier to coordinate. That does make me wonder about Black Lightning though as it took considerable effort to include him this year since his show is shot in Atlanta.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

realityboy said:


> I'm sure that didn't help although it still had a crossover with Flash when it was on CBS. It was also shot in LA for the first season which probably made crossovers difficult. Seasons 2-5 (The CW seasons) have been in Vancouver so I imagine it's much easier to coordinate. That does make me wonder about Black Lightning though as it took considerable effort to include him this year since his show is shot in Atlanta.


Right, but there's a difference between crossing over with another show, and building your network's show around the mythology of another network's shows. Clearly when CBS was developing Supergirl, they felt no need to pay any attention whatsoever to what CW was doing (which is why it had to be a cross-universe cross-over in the first place).

I doubt they had much trouble getting Cress Williams on board...he wasn't around much; I wouldn't be surprised if his scenes could have been shot in a day.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Right, but there's a difference between crossing over with another show, and building your network's show around the mythology of another network's shows. Clearly when CBS was developing Supergirl, they felt no need to pay any attention whatsoever to what CW was doing (which is why it had to be a cross-universe cross-over in the first place).
> 
> I doubt they had much trouble getting Cress Williams on board...he wasn't around much; I wouldn't be surprised if his scenes could have been shot in a day.


They flew him out for a week.

'Black Lightning' star teases his 'surprising' 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' entrance

Also, his suit had to be flown out.

Crisis: Why Black Lighting's Costume Was A Logistical Problem

They've proven that they can include him, but I'm more wondering about a full blown crossover with the rest of the cast now that they're on the same earth.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Crisis on Infinite Earths Solved DC TV's Connected-Universe Problem


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I think one of the other issues originally about Supergirl/man being on the Earth as Arrow/Flash is that the Green Arrow and the Flash kept getting into world-ending situations and it would be very strange if the Kryptonians didn't lend a hand...

...but thinking about the world being merge, I wonder what (if any) effects that will have to the themes of the individual series. In _Arrow_/_Flash_, the Flash is a metahuman and many of their threats came from other meta-humans. However, that's not really a thing in _Supergirl_---it's more about aliens living on Earth (something that we haven't seen, I don't believe, on _Arrow_/_Flash_)...


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

I'll admit to not following the comics not the other Arrowverse shows besides Flash. So who was the guy in the hockey mask outfit ?



Graymalkin said:


> OK, I was not expecting *that* particular Flash to show up.


That was quite the shock. It also showed me that Grant Gustin is a better Flash than Ezra Miller.



Graymalkin said:


> Not the JLA - but Super Friends? Seriously?


I can't believe they went there, talk about absurd.

So many missed opportunities however in the new Earths. Where was Earth 77 with Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman, or George Reeves as superman on Earth 51? Hell they could have even thrown in Shazzam as either the '70s TV show or the newer movie.

All in all though, it was a fun crossover.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I think putting all the shows on the same world makes it possible to have interesting bad guys do crossovers too, or even work together. I imagine a Legion of Doom story line to be the next crossover.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

So is it all one 'verse now or not? I'm kind of confused.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> So is it all one 'verse now or not? I'm kind of confused.


One for all of the CW shows (except Stargirl which is really a DC Universe show that's repeating on CW after streaming on DC Universe).


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Supergirl was on a different network until last year. Black Lightning had such a different tone, it probably didn't seem appropriate to put it in the same universe as Flash and Arrow.
> 
> Stargirl is DCU, but her episodes will also air on CW (I think a day later). From Crisis, it's clear she will remain on another Earth.


Supergirl only aired on CBS for one season in 2015-2016 and then switched to the CW the following season and has been there ever since. CW president Mark Pedowitz was in favor of the crossover between networks since CBS also owns the CW, but CBS decided to keep the character to themselves for the time being. Obviously things changed when the show switched over to the CW.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> Supergirl only aired on CBS for one season in 2015-2016 and then switched to the CW the following season and has been there ever since. CW president Mark Pedowitz was in favor of the crossover between networks since CBS also owns the CW, but CBS decided to keep the character to themselves for the time being. Obviously things changed when the show switched over to the CW.


We're not talking about crossovers; we're talking about the shows (originally) being set on different Earths.


Craigbob said:


> I'll admit to not following the comics not the other Arrowverse shows besides Flash. So who was the guy in the hockey mask outfit ?


Wild Dog (comics) - Wikipedia


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> So is it all one 'verse now or not? I'm kind of confused.


There is now a Multiverse with different Earths.
But due to the Crisis, Black Lightning's Earth, Earth-38, and Earth-1 were merged to form "Earth-Prime" which is where the main CW shows now take place.

(In the Silver Age comics "Earth-Prime" was considered the Earth were we the readers lived and Superman and Batman were fictional characters.)


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Right, but there's a difference between crossing over with another show, and building your network's show around the mythology of another network's shows. Clearly when CBS was developing Supergirl, they felt no need to pay any attention whatsoever to what CW was doing (which is why it had to be a cross-universe cross-over in the first place).


Well, there really wasn't any way they _could_ accommodate Arrowverse. For there to be a Supergirl, there MUST be a Superman, and Superman is not a character that can be ignored if he exists. Since he was never acknowledged in Arrow or Flash, you had to assume he didn't exist. Arrowverse painted itself into a corner by creating a universe where Superman didn't exist, while CBS' Supergirl had no choice but to have Superman as a character even if they weren't allowed to show him at first.

COIE did the same thing in both comics and TV crossover. The goal was to get rid of a bunch of parallel universes so that the characters can all share one common universe. It succeeded in doing so both times.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

JYoung said:


> There is now a Multiverse with different Earths.
> But due to the Crisis, Black Lightning's Earth, Earth-38, and Earth-1 were merged to form "Earth-Prime" which is where the main CW shows now take place.
> 
> (In the Silver Age comics "Earth-Prime" was considered the Earth were we the readers lived and Superman and Batman were fictional characters.)


Yeah, the Earth-Prime threw me off a bit. I remember those stories. Earth-Prime was supposedly _our_ world, and even had the editors and artists that drew Superman for the comics meeting him when he visited "here". I think I would have liked if they just called it Earth-1. Even now, Earth-Prime in the comics is the world where people read Superman and Flash and Batman comics.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> Well, there really wasn't any way they _could_ accommodate Arrowverse.


But my point is, for them it wasn't a problem, because they weren't going to acknowledge the other network's shows anyway. So that left them a clean slate to build their world however they wanted. The issue of whether or not they should deal with the Arrowverse not dealing with Superman was never going to come up. Even before they got to the point of thinking about Superman, the Arrowverse would have been out of the picture. Supergirl was never going to be set on that world.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

On that note about Earth-Prime and the DC heroes being comic book characters, if anyone wants to read a totally awesome story, check out "Secret Identity". It was a four-issue comic compiled into a graphic novel. It's about a young shy Clark Kent growing up in a small town in Kansas, never really fitting in with the different groups at school, but then one day discovering he has Superman's powers. He's suddenly Superman in a world where people know Superman as a comic book character. It's an incredible and touching story as he goes through life being a Superman that nobody knows exists. It's definitely in my top ten of favorite comics.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But my point is, for them it wasn't a problem, because they weren't going to acknowledge the other network's shows anyway. So that left them a clean slate to build their world however they wanted. The issue of whether or not they should deal with the Arrowverse not dealing with Superman was never going to come up. Even before they got to the point of thinking about Superman, the Arrowverse would have been out of the picture. Supergirl was never going to be set on that world.


I miss Calista Flockhart. She was too awesome for words.

One of my favorite lines ever was when she came in on Kara and Jimmy and everyone else while they were talking supergirl stuff. When they suddenly had to hide what they were doing and act natural, she eyes them suspiciosly and says "You all look like the multiracial yet nonthreatening cast of a CW show!"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> On that note about Earth-Prime and the DC heroes being comic book characters, if anyone wants to read a totally awesome story, check out "Secret Identity". It was a four-issue comic compiled into a graphic novel. It's about a young shy Clark Kent growing up in a small town in Kansas, never really fitting in with the different groups at school, but then one day discovering he has Superman's powers. He's suddenly Superman in a world where people know Superman as a comic book character. It's an incredible and touching story as he goes through life being a Superman that nobody knows exists. It's definitely in my top ten of favorite comics.


I completely agree. Awesome book.

The same writer did a Batman book with the same basic concept (Creature of the Night) which IMO doesn't work nearly as well...it seems more like a gimmicky attempt to recreate the magic of Secret Identity.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Watched the final two episodes last night. What I always find amusing is that, even though the cross over is supposed to be one show, each episode contains a little bit of the DNA of the specific show for that episode. That was no more evident than the final episode, which was totally had a Legends vibe. I could not stop laughing when Beebo appeared! Push, nice little touch with Nate not liking being a part of the Crossover. (Hard No! from last year.) Guess with everyone being on Earth Prime now, he may be part or more Crossovers in the future, whether he likes it or not. 

Ezra Miller's cameo was fun. I like how the two Flash's compared their suits. 

It will be interesting to see where the shows go from here. As mentioned earlier, having all the Superheroes on one Earth makes it a little difficult to keep them apart. Arrow is coming to an end (not that I watched) it, so that won't be a big deal, and Legends is always somewhere else in time, so they can mostly ignore the characters, but Batwoman, Supergirl, and Flash on the same Earth will be interesting.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TriBruin said:


> ...Batwoman, Supergirl, and Flash on the same Earth will be interesting.


It shouldn't be any different than Flash and Green Arrow, since the shows are are filmed in the same city. No problem having casual little guest appearances in between the annual events.

Black Lightning will be more of a challenge tonally, since it's such a different show. But the geographical distance should help them keep it separate. (It's still a little weird to me that they put BL on the same Earth, since there are already so many other DC worlds out there; why not keep it separate? I guess they don't want to do cross-dimensional cross-overs any more...)


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

The last two episodes were quite entertaining to me. Well, the fourth one would have been, except I had no idea what was going on with Oliver (and I'm not even going to call him Arrow because I don't think that's even who he was). And no, they couldn't save Oliver, but what they did was a great tribute to the character, even for those of us who didn't know him.

My favorite part of episode four was watching Lex try to take over. He is so funny. And while we would never want him to succeed, I found myself rooting for him anyway.

Then our heroes showed up and it was exciting to watch them stop him.

Monitor (or whoever he was) actually had emotions. And he also had emotions in one of the earlier episodes, which was nice to see.

But then came the final battle and it looked like it was over. What could be left?

Oh, they'll think of something. I enjoyed that final episode a lot. Especially how our heroes were so confused because the world was so different. And then we had the giant stuffed toy. And Supergirl was so cute when Kate showed up. 

I can't describe what Lex reminded me of because of the rules of this site.

Then came the final final battle. Which was confusing because two of the seven Paragons were not the Paragons. I know that one Superman disappeared, so he had to be another one. And then one of the guys was creating whatever machine we needed to defeat the enemy once and for all.

And at the very end, they all came together as a group and established a meeting place. I liked how Black Lightning commented on the situation and their funny responses. It was a great way to end it.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Thinking back on it another thing that felt weird to me to have Flash be the instigator for the JL instead of the normal trio of Superman, Batman and WW. But I guess in the Arrowverse it makes sense since he's kind of been a de-facto leader, especially with Arrow going off into the sunset.

Also what happened to Lex? He knows all their secret identities now how is that going to affect things going forward?


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

TriBruin said:


> That was no more evident than the final episode, which was totally had a Legends vibe.


This is unfortunate because I never got interested in it and now, I've missed a bunch of epiosdes I would have liked?

And now I apparently have to add it, when I don't have time for any more shows.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Graymalkin said:


> OK, I was not expecting *that* particular Flash to show up.


And what was the significance of Howie Mandel?

I know it wasn't him but it sounded like him.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Who are you talking about?


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

HarleyRandom said:


> And what was the significance of Howie Mandel?
> 
> I know it wasn't him but it sounded like him.


What Howie Mandel? That was Ezra Miller as the Flash from the "Justice League" movie.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Maybe he's talking about Marv Wolfram...the guy who approached Supergirl and the Flash on the pier, asking for their autograph. He's the person who wrote the original Crisis on Infinite Earths comic book...


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Graymalkin said:


> What Howie Mandel? That was Ezra Miller as the Flash from the "Justice League" movie.


To me he sounds like Howie Mandel.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

I came across a youtube video of reactions of people watching the 4th episode when Barry was in the Speed Force. It was really funny watching everyone freak out in astonishment. Kudos to WB for pulling that off. Apparently, that scene was filmed after the first three had aired. The movie studio called and said they wanted it to happen, could the TV producers somehow fit him in? They said they would absolutely find a way. They were surprised it didn't leak out that Miller was in the area at the time, because that would have been a giveaway. It turned out fantastic as it was one of the biggest surprises in the series. I know my jaw dropped.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobcarn said:


> Apparently, that scene was filmed after the first three had aired.


And after the last two were filmed...Gustin had to be called back to do the scene (and one factor was whether he would be available and willing).


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

The whole crossover was VERY meh. I don't think it was good at all. Only thing enjoyable was the various cameos. They should stay away from epic crossovers for a looooong time. 

And Kevin Smith was 1000% faking his excitement for this.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Snappa77 said:


> The whole crossover was VERY meh. I don't think it was good at all. Only thing enjoyable was the various cameos. They should stay away from epic crossovers for a looooong time.
> 
> And Kevin Smith was 1000% faking his excitement for this.


LOL, that was just Kevin Smith being Kevin Smith. He tries to look excited about everything comic related. Just watch an episode of Comic Men to see what I mean.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Based on last night's Supergirl, without going into a great amount of detail, I don't think the Supegirl writers got the memo on the new multiverse.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

Azlen said:


> Based on last night's Supergirl, without going into a great amount of detail, I don't think the Supegirl writers got the memo on the new multiverse.


I have not watched Supergirl yet but I did watch Batwoman and got the same impression.


Spoiler



The only reference to the Crisis was a mention of Oliver Queen's passing and a comment about the Paragon of Courage. Other than that it was a normal Batwoman episode


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

longrider said:


> I have not watched Supergirl yet but I did watch Batwoman and got the same impression.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Supergirl's whole concept changed because of the Crisis, so different in that regard but one of the base assumptions in the show was that Earth Prime was now the only Earth left and based on the end of the Crisis crossover we know that isn't the case and that was the memo that seemed to be missed.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Azlen said:


> Based on last night's Supergirl, without going into a great amount of detail, I don't think the Supegirl writers got the memo on the new multiverse.


I was going to say this. But what we know is good news for the "orphans" who like the seven Paragons were somehow kept alive outside of the universes that were destroyed. One of them or someone who was going to help them said somehow, maybe they could get back to their world, which seemed impossible.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

Snappa77 said:


> The whole crossover was VERY meh. I don't think it was good at all. Only thing enjoyable was the various cameos. They should stay away from epic crossovers for a looooong time.


Personally, I've tended to feel that way for the last several cross-over events they've done. I'm guessing these crossovers might appeal to the die-hard, comic book reading fans of the shows, but for the average viewer, they end up a confusing mess. And lately they've just turned into "lets see how many cameos we can get of people" into the show. Which half the audience isn't going to get anyways. And they desperately need one editor in charge of the entire event, because what ends up coming out has lately been a disjointed mess. (Saying that without having watched this years crossover yet).

Having it across 5 of the series this time just has added to my dread of the whole thing. We don't watch supergirl or batwoman, nor do I particularly want to watch those. So I get stuck with a couple of particularly out of context shows that I don't care about for this "event". Add to that all the whining and bemoaning about the crisis that's gone on all season long on the Flash, and quite frankly part of me has been feeling "please, let's just get to the crisis and kill Barry off once and for all so we can put an end to this misery". (And yeah, I know they don't).

(Haven't watched it yet, we just finally finished up the flash and arrow episodes leading up to it.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

FWIW, none of the Crisis episodes were really episodes of their putative series...it was one relatively self-contained miniseries (so separate from the regular shows that, as has been mentioned, the writers of Batwoman and especially Supergirl don't seem to understand what actually happened in Crisis).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

bobcarn said:


> Did you read Doomsday Clock? It just finished this past December, and the multiverse expanded even more. It established the true nature of the main DC universe, and even glimpsed into the future and named future crises that will reboot it even further.


Reading it now.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> (so separate from the regular shows that, as has been mentioned, the writers of Batwoman and especially Supergirl don't seem to understand what actually happened in Crisis).


That was also true in many of the DC comics that followed the original publication of Crisis.
(Power Girl readily comes to mind. And Superman was inconsistent for years.)


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Azlen said:


> Supergirl's whole concept changed because of the Crisis, so different in that regard but one of the base assumptions in the show was that Earth Prime was now the only Earth left and based on the end of the Crisis crossover we know that isn't the case and that was the memo that seemed to be missed.


I'm not entirely sure I agree with the majority of the thread here regarding how Crisis ended.

Watching it, I was left with the distinct impression that Earth-Prime *was* the only survivor. The little montage at the end didn't really make me feel like there were a bunch of worlds that snuck through the cracks and survived - it made me feel that there *were* all these worlds, and then the Paragons came during the crisis, and collapsed everything into Earth-Prime. In which case I don't see anything wrong with how things played out in Supergirl (I did not watch Batwoman).

I could be wrong of course, but I don't feel there was anything shown in Crisis that makes that notion wrong, and that notion was confirmed by shows that followed in that universe. Of course there could be external confirmation one way or another that I've not read.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> Watching it, I was left with the distinct impression that Earth-Prime *was* the only survivor. The little montage at the end didn't really make me feel like there were a bunch of worlds that snuck through the cracks and survived - it made me feel that there *were* all these worlds, and then the Paragons came during the crisis, and collapsed everything into Earth-Prime. In which case I don't see anything wrong with how things played out in Supergirl (I did not watch Batwoman).


I suppose that's possible, but if so, it's a bit weird that their worlds were labelled as other worlds AFTER the Crisis was over, making it look like those were the worlds they were on...

So that means either that the cinematic universe has been destroyed, or that it now coexists with the TV universe!


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

I just watched Aquaman.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> So that means either that the cinematic universe has been destroyed <snip>


Maybe that's for the best...

(But in all seriousness, I never considered the TV and cinematic universes to share a common cannon. So in the TV universe, I consider there to be only one Earth. And then the cinematic universe has whatever it has.)


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

kdmorse said:


> I'm not entirely sure I agree with the majority of the thread here regarding how Crisis ended.
> 
> Watching it, I was left with the distinct impression that Earth-Prime *was* the only survivor. The little montage at the end didn't really make me feel like there were a bunch of worlds that snuck through the cracks and survived - it made me feel that there *were* all these worlds, and then the Paragons came during the crisis, and collapsed everything into Earth-Prime. In which case I don't see anything wrong with how things played out in Supergirl (I did not watch Batwoman).
> 
> I could be wrong of course, but I don't feel there was anything shown in Crisis that makes that notion wrong, and that notion was confirmed by shows that followed in that universe. Of course there could be external confirmation one way or another that I've not read.


There are multiple Earth's at the end. All the CW shows are on one but other DC shows are on others.

'Crisis on Infinite Earths' boss answers burning questions about Earth-Prime, Ezra Miller, and more

*The Crisis comic destroyed the multiverse and condensed everything into a single Earth. Here, though, you guys decided to reboot the entire multiverse. Why did you want to do that? *
Basically, I promised DC and all the powers that be that if they just let me destroy all the various different shows in hour 1, I would bring them back in hour 5. I promised that I would put all of the toys back in the toy box once we were finished. For us, the most important status quo change was, of course, combining the CW shows into a single Earth. I like to think that I'm a considerate enough showrunner that I'm not going to destroy the shows of other showrunners.

*The Legends hour establishes that the DC Universe show Stargirl takes place on Earth-2 in the new multiverse. What does that mean for all the characters who were on the old Earth-2, specifically with Earth-2 Laurel who is a major character on Arrow? How is her continued existence explained? *
Actually, that question is very directly asked by Laurel herself in the _Arrow _series finale. There's actually a really, really poignant scene between her and Paul Blackthorne, who plays her dad, that explains that. Speaking to that larger question, one of the things that really excites all of us involved with the Arrowverse shows is that by rebooting the universe, we've given ourselves a new central mystery, which is the question: Okay, what does this new universe look like? You got a little bit of a taste of it in hour 5, and going forward we're going to continue on all the shows to peel the layers of the onion on what that looks like. That's really, really exciting for all of us.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Azlen said:


> Based on last night's Supergirl, without going into a great amount of detail, I don't think the Supegirl writers got the memo on the new multiverse.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> (so separate from the regular shows that, as has been mentioned, the writers of Batwoman and especially Supergirl don't seem to understand what actually happened in Crisis).


Based on last night's episode, Black Lightning also seems to think that all other Earths and the Multiverse were destroyed.

I wonder if this isn't a future plot point though.
After all from the heroes' (and Luthor's) point of view, they know that at least three Earths were merged to form the Earth that they are currently on.

How are they supposed to know that a Multiverse still exists?


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Spoiler



Toyman Jr. claimed to be from a different Earth. I haven't watched the entire episode yet but we know Lex understands what that means. What I don't know yet is whether it will be established that Toyman Jr. was in this limbo like the Paragons and the Brainiacs and whoever else in the last episode claimed to be from a different Earth.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

HarleyRandom said:


> [Supergirl spoilers]


You're talking about an episode of Supergirl, not Crisis.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You're talking about an episode of Supergirl, not Crisis.


Do we have a thread for that?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

HarleyRandom said:


> Do we have a thread for that?


Don't know, but you might want to edit your post.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

PJO1966 said:


> Don't know, but you might want to edit your post.


I didn't think we did and I just wanted to go ahead and post where the topic was brought up. I've been looking for how and I found it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

HarleyRandom said:


> Do we have a thread for that?


No, but you can always start one!


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

Spoiler



If everything was rebooted how can the man whose name I can't spell be Clarence to Kara's George Bailey? It's one thing to let Kara be a part of an alternate reality but considering everything was rebooted and Lex is the greatest thing since sliced bread, things can't possibly be as they were. Anyway, it was great seeing how things would have been different if Kara had done things differently. And sad that there was no way to do it right. What she actually did turned out to ne the best thing.


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