# Switching b/t 2 channels...shouldn't Roamio buffer both for 30 min?



## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

So I'm switching between CBS and FOX between two football games. Using the Last button to go back and forth. I missed a scoring play right when I switched and tried to rewind but there was nothing buffered. Tried a bunch of times but no joy. 

Do you have to enable the buffer in Settings somewhere? Something else I'm missing? Did they remove this feature in the years I've been away?

TIA.


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## TC25D (Aug 21, 2013)

I have buffers on both games, although why anyone would be watching the Redskins game is a mystery.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

TC25D said:


> I have buffers on both games, although why anyone would be watching the Redskins game is a mystery.


LOL. I just realized that if I first press Info, and then press the Down arrow, I can 'force' separate tuners to tune each game, and switch between them that way. And after doing this, the Last button switched between the 2 tuners and retains the buffer.

So basically for some reason initially it was using a single tuner to change between 2 channels. I wasn't recording anything on the other tuners though. Any reason it would do this??


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

As you discovered, it has always used one tuner to do channel changing UNLESS one of the other tuners is already on the channel you change to.


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## TC25D (Aug 21, 2013)

Good observation. I was using 2 tuners.


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## WRX09MD (Aug 25, 2013)

Is only way to go between 3 or 4 tuners with the buffer is to set them to record? I would like to be able to hit the info button and go between a few channels at a time. I noticed it has the same channel 4 times.


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## TC25D (Aug 21, 2013)

I was switching between 4 different channels on 4 different tuners (Basic) by hitting the Info button. I was not recording anything.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

It's always best to hit record if going between multiple channels with different tuners. A wrong button press and you will lose the buffer.


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## Devx (Jun 1, 2006)

Last is used to change to the previous channel. Like was already mentioned, if another tuner is already on that channel, it will jump to that tuner. Otherwise the current tuner can be used and the buffer will be lost. Pressing info and then using the dialog can change tuners, also, pressing Live TV will switch to another tuner.



aaronwt said:


> It's always best to hit record if going between multiple channels with different tuners. A wrong button press and you will lose the buffer.


I agree. Otherwise it's too risky when watching multiple shows. It also ensures that other recordings and suggestions don't grab tuners in use.


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## Alan_r (Sep 13, 2013)

Does the Live TV button not cycle between 2 recorded channels anymore?

I just came from Tivo HD to Roamio, so Im new to more than 2 tuners, but I used to use the Live TV button a lot to flip between 2 channels, both of which were being recorded (well, buffered).


But yes, I do agree with recording both...I cant count how many times Ive sat on my remote and changed channels and lost the buffer!


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Agree with the record, but I also agree with going to get a sandwich and do something else for an hour or two so you can just watch the action and skip all of the commercials, stats, halftime junk, and other stuff that is immaterial to the outcome. Plus, you can watch each game sequentially instead of flipping back and forth, backing up, and dealing with two halftime shows.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

I hear that. My viewing is sufficiently casual that I don't mind all that for the most part. 

That said, looks like I may have encountered something different, or a bug. Saw in another thread that if you have it set to record suggestions, that can leave the TiVo in a state where every tuner is tuned to that same suggested recording channel.

Yesterday when the TiVo was using a single tuner to switch between the 2 channels, every other tuner was tuned to the same (non football..) channel. It's a channel I watch, though it was not recording. Moreover, I'm pretty sure I set the TiVo not to record suggestions. I will double check that, but sort of strange behavior IMO.

Confirmed I am not recording suggestions. 

I find this default behavior - where it uses one tuner to change channels unless the other channel you're going to is already on another tuner - bassackwards. 

IMO, it should use all tuners that are not otherwise recording something you've specified to change channels. It should do so FIFO style sequentially. 

So for example, if you're not recording anything, you should be able to change to six different channels before losing a buffer on any of them. On the 7th channel change, if to a 7th channel, the very first channel you tuned would drop off the list, replaced by the 7th. 

I guess (hope?) some thought was given to this by TiVo and that there is some logic to the default they set, but I can't figure it.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

anthonymoody said:


> I find this default behavior - where it uses one tuner to change channels unless the other channel you're going to is already on another tuner - bassackwards.


That is the way things have always worked. In reality, I think it is quite logical. If you are on a channel and you decide to not watch it (tuning away) why would Tivo keep it. If you want that buffer, record it... I don't have a Roamio yet, but if you want to switch between tuners on the old boxes you press Live TV. Then you get the special behavior that you want. Going forward with the Mini's and what not, the behavior that the boxes have makes the most sense due to it being the same way the Mini will work (since the Mini doesn't have an option to take another tuner).

Some like you may want it to work differently (and your suggestion is reasonable), but I don't think it adds a whole lot of value. It would just be a different way, not necessarily a better/worse way.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

The other cause of all tuners being on a single channel is a reboot. Tivo has been pushing out a software update over the last several days to deal with issues with the Netflix and Pandora apps. It's entirely possible that this update was installed early Sunday morning for you, resulting in a reboot and all tuners on the same channel. Since you don't use suggestions, and Sunday morning is usually pretty slow on recordings for most, it is plausible that when you started watching NFL football was the first time any channels needed to be changed since the reboot.

As for channel tuning and buffers, it's an interesting question for debate. Now that Tivo has 6 tuners, should tuner use in channel surfing be re-examined? There are a lot of hypothetical scenarios here, so coming up with a default behavior would be difficult. My thought would be to add a quick "toggle" via a remote button that would mark a tuner to be "reserved" but not recorded. Perhaps one of the colored letter buttons could be used. Now, from the pool of available tuners not being used to actively record, you could add a second layer to channel changing. Say two tuners are actively recording, so that leave 4. You're watching one show live, and decide to "reserve" it. You change the channel and Tivo then uses on of the 3 remaining tuners for the new channel. 

I think that's a workable solution, but how many people would actually use it? This is just one more potential feature that likely falls towards the bottom of the priority list, especially when simply hitting the record button provides an alternate solution. Sure, you'll spend a couple minutes each day deleting these recordings when the shows are over, but it's not the big of a deal to me.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Interesting about the reboot. Is there any way to check if that happened? Some kind of log perhaps?

In terms of the usability, I like the idea of a toggle to reserve a tuner rather than make a recording (bc as you mentioned though not a terrible hardship it's still sort of a pita especially if you are talking about 3,4,5 recordings on game days).

That said, logically I still think "my way" of thinking would provide a better experience. In answer to the question "If you are on a channel and you decide to not watch it (tuning away) why would Tivo keep it?" I would answer that since the Roamio has ample tuners and HD capacity, why _shouldn't_ the TiVo keep it? It's not like those excess tuners and HD capacity are serving any purpose in those moments. If recordings otherwise begin, or a Mini grabs a tuner, then those tuners could just be removed from the FIFO stack.

Moreover, if a user isn't aware of the feature because it's not something they care about it won't "harm" them in any way since it's basically a background functionality that grabs tuners and HD space dynamically if and as they're available.

I guess like channel mapping/HD auto-tuning this is a feature I'll have to add to my wish list (which I know means tivo will never release it!)


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

anthonymoody said:


> Interesting about the reboot. Is there any way to check if that happened? Some kind of log perhaps?


The quickest way would be to navigate to your system information screen at look for the S/W version. The recent update was 20.3.6.1. That doesn't tell you when it updated, but will let you know if you have the above version, you have been recently updated.


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## wlexx (May 14, 2010)

aaronwt said:


> It's always best to hit record if going between multiple channels with different tuners. A wrong button press and you will lose the buffer.


Just don't hit Record if the buffer straddles two shows (e.g. part of an ending show and a new show at the top of the hour), otherwise you will lose the buffer of the ending show and it will only start recording from the start of the new show.

I've been bitten by this situation several times, on shows for which there were no more repeats or upcoming showings too.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

anthonymoody said:


> I guess (hope?) some thought was given to this by TiVo and that there is some logic to the default they set, but I can't figure it.


It supports channel surfing. The idea is that when a commercial comes on the channel you are watching, you use the LIVE button to switch tuners and you can then surf as many channels as you want without having to hit RECORD on the first channel.

The first dual tuner tivo was for analog unencrypted cable without a box. In those days, channel tuning was fast, the guide was slow, and you only had two tuners, so supporting channel surfing made a lot of more sense than FIFO.

Today, in the digital world, the guide is fast, channel tuning is slow, and tuners are many, so an argument could be made that the design should be reexamined.

But long-time users are quite accustomed to the current design, so I would hope that any change is optional, as with the skip/backspace buttons, so that those who like the current design can retain it.


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## swerver (May 18, 2012)

anthonymoody said:


> So for example, if you're not recording anything, you should be able to change to six different channels before losing a buffer on any of them. On the 7th channel change, if to a 7th channel, the very first channel you tuned would drop off the list, replaced by the 7th.


You can do this, if you are willing to take one additional step - press live tv before you switch to the next channel. This will effectively keep your queue of most recently viewed channels. Then it's right>down>right to access any of them directly, or live tv to cycle through all of them. One benefit is if you want to replace a particular channel in your recently viewed queue, you can do so by selecting that tuner and then changing the channel. Using a straight FIFO queue, you'd have to re-select all the channels if the one you wanted to get rid of wasn't the first in.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks all. Am re-training myself to use Live (or Info->Down, etc) to surf among channels rather than direct tuning. 

And I checked the software version and I did indeed get updated at some point so maybe that's why all the tuners were on the same channel.


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