# Battlestar Galactica: Torn Part 1 *Spoilers*



## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Starbuck getting her crap together again?? Tigh shouldn't have a liver by now.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Is Baltar a Cylon? Hmmmmm......
Good episode. I like seeing the Cylon side of things.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

That was a great episode, one of the best so far (for the series).

I don't know my earth space junk, but was that something we sent out (you know, from modern-day real-life earth)? A deep space probe?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I really liked this episode. It was the best one for a long while, and has put the show back on the track that made it one of my favorite shows. I love the heady expositional anime style stuff with baltar in particular. The stuff about projecting is an interesting thought. Almost like the cylons are the head in the clouds idealists and humans are the pragmatic realists. Or are they simply newborns on a xen journey to accept the reality that they project?

Baltar's not a cylon. But why didn't he tell them about the probe? Was it self-preservation, or power? Is he withholding that information because he is still unsure whether the cylons are worthy of redemption?

I am skpetical about Baltar turning towards baltar of old BSG. So far they are keeping him reined in, human, and still to some degree a character I root for and care about sometimes. Though not when his eyes bug out and he chokes brunette sixes.

The hybrid was perhaps a little too precog from minority report, but still fun nonetheless.

I'd say that the "take this gun and shoot" me stuff was a little hokey, but I once had a boss like that. He would take out his wallet and throw money in the air, and say "this is what we are doing. do you like throwing money away? Do you?!". Who doesn't love a Drama Queen now and again?

Baby Starbuck's Momma is pretty. I hope she gets more screen time! And that she's not a cylon.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Baby Starbuck's Momma is pretty. I hope she gets more screen time! And that she's not a cylon.


But if she were a cylon, you'd be able to see her again and again, sometimes with little-to-no clothing on. Sure you don't want to rethink that?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

From http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4503207&&#post4503207


dswallow said:


> Now Lee just has to go on a diet and lose all that padding (which no doubt will happen sooner than it would in real life) and we'll be mostly back to where we were last season before Ron & Co. got hold of the bad drugs.


Lee did it in just 1 episode. Maybe 2. Depends on how you count, I guess.

I'm rooting for the alcohol to win.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Liked the episode. I have kind of had enough of Tigh. His character seems to have run its course. I think he can die now. I am getting really sick of watching him drink.


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

Baltar didn't tell them about the probe because Probe Basestar Six blamed him for sending them there (i.e. it was a trap by Baltar)... and Baltar probably figured that Caprica Six and the gang on his basestar would say the same thing. Not that C6 didn't figure it out on her own.

The probe/beacon itself didn't look like anything contemporary (it had a little bit of a Nomad vibe to it, but a bit grungier); the explanation that it was left by the 13th Tribe makes sense, although it infecting Cylons seems a tad, well, prescient and unlikely, since Cylons are allegedly some relatively new thing.

Incidentally, the closed captioning kept calling the ship a "bay star." And it consistently gets wrong who says "Previously on BSG" at the beginning of the episode...

Nice job explaining why the other 5 models seem to be in hiding. Even if it was a little too Trials and Tribbleations for my taste 

Is the Hybrid another model... or was it a D'Anna or Six? (Then again if she doesn't get a vote, maybe she isn't a model at all.) I couldn't really tell.


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## FauxPas (Jan 8, 2002)

Was nekkid Boomer doing Tai Chi?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

quango said:


> Incidentally, the closed captioning kept calling the ship a "bay star."


I saw that too. (Although it was Bay Ship, I believe. )

They screwed it up several times, and then suddenly started getting it right.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Mike Farrington said:


> I don't know my earth space junk, but was that something we sent out (you know, from modern-day real-life earth)? A deep space probe?


[TheTodd] I'd like to give Six a "deep space probe"! [/TheTodd]

I'm thinking it was V'Ger.


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

busyba said:


> [TheTodd] I'd like to give Six a "deep space probe"! [/TheTodd]
> 
> I'm thinking it was V'Ger.


High five!


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## jimmymac (Nov 6, 2002)

busyba said:


> [TheTodd] I'd like to give Six a "deep space probe"! [/TheTodd]
> 
> I'm thinking it was V'Ger.


I was gong to post the same thing.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

well, seems like the rift within the cylons (first predicted by Rob, I believe) is a true hypothesis...Brother Caville was conspicuously missing... 

Athena was immediately infected, it seems... 

I'm surprised the cylons did not send Baltar back with a nuke to destroy the base ship...now they left evidence for the humans to investigate and figure out how to infect the cylons...


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Mike Farrington said:


> That was a great episode, one of the best so far (for the series).


Yeah! Even though it didn't have much action, I liked it a lot! It was a big improvement over last week's ep.

It was interesting how they recycled a callsign... Athena was Commander Adama's daughter in TOS. She was quite a looker in that show too. 

To busyba regarding V'Ger: LOL!!!


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Some thoughts/questions I had:

Why the new call sign for Sharon? What was wrong with Boomer?

Why is it called a hybrid? Aren't most (all?) of the Cylons half machine/half animal?

Was the "virus" that infected the Cylons a biological virus or a computer virus? They had biological symptoms but in a Cylon those could have easily been caused by a computer virus. Consider how Athena was infected (if indeed she is infected of course.)


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

The naked Boomer scene seemed very gratuitous. In fact the only purpose it served was to please me!


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## mchasal (Jun 6, 2001)

appleye1 said:


> Why is it called a hybrid? Aren't most (all?) of the Cylons half machine/half animal?


It's a hybrid between the skin-job cylon and the ship-type cylon. The advanced processing ability of the skin job merged with the power of the ship.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Athena was immediately infected, it seems...


I don't think she was infected. She can just tell the base star is dead, and was quoting a bit of scripture. Remember the other Cylon base star jumped to the pulsars and then Baltar took a ship-to-ship shuttle over. Just being in proximity to the infected base star wasn't enough to infect them.

I couldn't believe that they let Baltar back on the original base star without a quarantine or decontamination or anything. Maybe we just have to assume they didn't. But with a virus that deadly they sure seemed cavalier about it.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

quango said:


> Nice job explaining why the other 5 models seem to be in hiding. Even if it was a little too Trials and Tribbleations for my taste


Hm? Did I miss something? I can't have fallen asleep 

When did they explain this? All I remember is something like "we don't talk about them".


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

markz said:


> The naked Boomer scene seemed very gratuitous. In fact the only purpose it served was to please me!


No, it had another purpose: it pleased me, too.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

appleye1 said:


> Why the new call sign for Sharon? What was wrong with Boomer?


I'd think it was because this was a different Sharon then the one that was assigned to him before.

Diane


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Athena was immediately infected, it seems...





madscientist said:


> I don't think she was infected. She can just tell the base star is dead, and was quoting a bit of scripture. Remember the other Cylon base star jumped to the pulsars and then Baltar took a ship-to-ship shuttle over. Just being in proximity to the infected base star wasn't enough to infect them.


I'm with madscientist - I don't think Athena was infected ...


madscientist said:


> I couldn't believe that they let Baltar back on the original base star without a quarantine or decontamination or anything. Maybe we just have to assume they didn't. But with a virus that deadly they sure seemed cavalier about it.


Baltar was wearing a white robe and his hair was wet. I'm thinking he DID go though some sort of decontamination procedure.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

I haven't seen this yet, but Helo is still Adama's XO. Why didn't Helo get to keep the XO's quarters? It looked like Tigh was in them.

Also no sign of Dualla, so don't now what she's doing, but it looks like Lee became CAG again? 

It also looks like Mr. Gaeta will become the chief scientist/detective in the hunt for Earth, taking over over for Baltar? (When Baltar first told Six that he spent "hours, days, weeks, no, months" studying the location of Earth, I thought he was making it up to save his skin, but I guess he really WAS studying it ...)


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> appleye1 said:
> 
> 
> > Why the new call sign for Sharon? What was wrong with Boomer?
> ...


IMHO the real reason Helo's Sharon was given a new callsign is so that fans can refer to her as "Athena" now, versus generic "Sharon" / "Boomer" models. Athena = Good Cylon. Sharon/Boomer = Bad Cylon. See how easy that is?


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## jimmymac (Nov 6, 2002)

I want to know what diet Apollo was on.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jimmymac said:


> I want to know what diet Apollo was on.


It was the "we don't really know where to go with the 'fat Apollo' storyline...it sounded good at the time, but now we just want him back to normal" diet.

That's pretty much what RDM admitted in this week's podcast.

Along with a lot of other interesting tidbits about how the episode didn't work after it was shot, and they did a lot of editing, rearranging and patching to remake a lot of it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

drew2k said:


> ...Baltar was wearing a white robe and his hair was wet. I'm thinking he DID go though some sort of decontamination procedure.


They probably just killed him and downloaded the contents of his brain into a cloned body.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

If this week has people saying 'Trials and Tribble-ations,' I already was thinking


Spoiler



'I, Borg'


 without seeing next week's preview and even moreso after I did!


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They probably just killed him and downloaded the contents of his brain into a cloned body.


Maybe that's how Lee got thin so quickly, too. They killed the fat version of him and downloaded the contents of his brain into a thin Lee body. Conclusive proof that Lee is a cylon! 



--Debbie


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

appleye1 said:


> Why is it called a hybrid? Aren't most (all?) of the Cylons half machine/half animal?


Maybe it's half human/half base ship? Or maybe they're grown from ovaries taken from humans or grown at farms? I dunno... Yet another mystery for us.


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## nlsinger (Feb 8, 2006)

quango said:


> Nice job explaining why the other 5 models seem to be in hiding. Even if it was a little too Trials and Tribbleations for my taste





madscientist said:


> Hm? Did I miss something? I can't have fallen asleep
> 
> When did they explain this? All I remember is something like "we don't talk about them".


The first rule of the missing 5 club: we don't talk about the missing five club.


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## cyke93 (Jan 29, 2004)

Okay, I get it, they did a major shift at the end of season 2 .. n it seems like everyone is reverting back to how they were before. it started in the first episode.. adama shaved off that ugly mustache.. n now look in one episode we see that lee dropped all thay weight .. n with starbuck .. did the long beautiful attractive blond her make her unemotional and cold, did cutting her hair solve all her problems because apparently it did. i mean she looked so hot with the hair, now shes back to looking like my gym teacher.. i cried when she took she cut her hair off.. i think next week sol will grow his eye back

maybe if we all protest, they will allow starbuck to regrow her hair haha. i mean lee managed to drop all those pounds in what 2-3 weeks? haha


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## cyke93 (Jan 29, 2004)

all joking aside .. i think the 13th colony placed the virus there intended for the humans. think of it as, yeah we dont want you to follow us or find us.. but im glad that we shifted back on the search to find earth


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

cyke93 said:


> Okay, I get it, they did a major shift at the end of season 2 .. n it seems like everyone is reverting back to how they were before. it started in the first episode.. adama shaved off that ugly mustache.. n now look in one episode we see that lee dropped all thay weight .. n with starbuck .. did the long beautiful attractive blond her make her unemotional and cold, did cutting her hair solve all her problems because apparently it did. i mean she looked so hot with the hair, now shes back to looking like my gym teacher.. i cried when she took she cut her hair off.. i think next week sol will grow his eye back
> 
> maybe if we all protest, they will allow starbuck to regrow her hair haha. i mean lee managed to drop all those pounds in what 2-3 weeks? haha


Wow! Spelling and grammar checking surrenders!


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## nlsinger (Feb 8, 2006)

If they can't let them download or they'll be infected it sounds more like a programming problem.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Figaro said:


> Wow! Spelling and grammar checking surrenders!


Literacy is SO 20th Century!


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

drew2k said:


> IMHO the real reason Helo's Sharon was given a new callsign is so that fans can refer to her as "Athena" now, versus generic "Sharon" / "Boomer" models. Athena = Good Cylon. Sharon/Boomer = Bad Cylon. See how easy that is?


But Boomer referes to a specific unit that shot Adama, not just the model. So giving Athena a new call sign does make sense. Though now that they bring it up, what the heck happened to Boomer? She hasn't been involved in a storyline for awhile.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

logic88 said:


> But Boomer referes to a specific unit that shot Adama, not just the model. So giving Athena a new call sign does make sense. Though now that they bring it up, what the heck happened to Boomer? She hasn't been involved in a storyline for awhile.


She's busy doing Tai Chi in the buff.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

busyba said:


> She's busy doing Tai Chi in the buff.


mmmmm...Tai Buff....


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

logic88 said:


> drew2k said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO the real reason Helo's Sharon was given a new callsign is so that fans can refer to her as "Athena" now, versus generic "Sharon" / "Boomer" models. Athena = Good Cylon. Sharon/Boomer = Bad Cylon. See how easy that is?
> ...


Sure it makes sense in the story, but is that all you care about man?! As one of the Sharon models, Boomer was resurrected and resurfaced on New Caprica, while the Sharon on Caprica moved from there to Helo's arms, and it's just too darn difficult for us to refer to the specific Sharon characters. Who wants to keep saying Caprica Sharon, or Helo's Sharon, when Athena will do nicely? Obviously Ron Moore is thinking of us fans. Referring to the Sharon-model-on-Galactica as "Athena" simply makes our posting lives easier. Thanks Ron Moore!


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I'm surprised the cylons did not send Baltar back with a nuke to destroy the base ship...now they left evidence for the humans to investigate and figure out how to infect the cylons...


"evidence"? Heck, they left the humans a whole Base Star and its dispatch of cylon raiders!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

logic88 said:


> But Boomer referes to a specific unit that shot Adama, not just the model. So giving Athena a new call sign does make sense. Though now that they bring it up, what the heck happened to Boomer? She hasn't been involved in a storyline for awhile.


Boomer was shot by Cally after she shot Adama.

Although it was difficult to decipher, I think I agree with what cyke93 said about Starbuck's hair. Why, oh why did she have to cut it off?


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Anubys said:


> well, seems like the rift within the cylons (first predicted by Rob, I believe) is a true hypothesis...Brother Caville was conspicuously missing...
> 
> Athena was immediately infected, it seems...
> 
> I'm surprised the cylons did not send Baltar back with a nuke to destroy the base ship...now they left evidence for the humans to investigate and figure out how to infect the cylons...


Let's hope that RDM isn't going to do a repeat of the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Dominion Founders storyline.

You know humans create virus which kills aliens, other Humans then research virus and develop cure for disease, Humans defeat aliens then give them the cure. Human & Aliens then become friends.

Which incidently RDM was co-producer & co-writer for most of those episodes.

Mind you I think that it isn't a virus but the effects of the Pulsar that is causing the Cylons to malfunction, that is why Athena was affected instantaneously despite being in a hemetically sealed craft, and why the road to Earth leads the fleet there. Something along the lines of what projection six said to Baltar in S1, "It has happened before, it will happen again", to paraphrase.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Maybe the "virus" the Cylons were suffering from was as simple as the probe being powered by a nuke.

As for whether or not Athena was infected, she might not have needed to be in close proximity to the probe. Look at all the Raiders that were just floating in space.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Ummm...why are all of you saying that Athena was affected immediately? There were no clear signs that she was affected at all other than showing some shock at the decimation that she was witnessing.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Figaro said:


> Ummm...why are all of you saying that Athena was affected immediately? There were no clear signs that she was affected at all other than showing some shock at the decimation that she was witnessing.


Some people are mistaking her emotional reaction for a physical one.

I'd say it's an understandable mistake though.


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## jimmymac (Nov 6, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> "evidence"? Heck, they left the humans a whole Base Star and its dispatch of cylon raiders!


I thought the raiders were "alive" and it appears that the base stars need a hybrid to run. Wonder if the raiders and base star were also "killed" by the virus.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

busyba said:


> Some people are mistaking her emotional reaction for a physical one.
> 
> I'd say it's an understandable mistake though.


I'd say they made it intentionally ambiguous...


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

mchasal said:


> It's a hybrid between the skin-job cylon and the ship-type cylon. The advanced processing ability of the skin job merged with the power of the ship.


Pilot

/explains baby base stars



Sherminator said:


> Mind you I think that it isn't a virus but the effects of the Pulsar that is causing the Cylons to malfunction


Electromagnetic radiation.

Doesn't make sense though, I'd think the toasters had seen pulsars before and would know to steer clear if there was any chance of ill effects from the EM. And also, if it is the pulsar, why bother with the probe?


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Perhaps this pulsar emits a form of EM which is different to that which the Cylons have previously encountered & as such can penetrate their defences where regular pulsars cannot.


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## cyke93 (Jan 29, 2004)

Figaro said:


> Wow! Spelling and grammar checking surrenders!


I type like how one speaks in normal conversation. This is a message board, not a technical writing class.


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## quango (Sep 25, 2005)

On Athena's reaction... in the Podcast, Moore says she's not infected.

Here's a more serious issue: how can the Scroll of Pythia say how the 13th Tribe got to Earth, and how can there be a planetarium on Kobol built before the exodus from Kobol showing the stars as seen from Earth?


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

That hybrid really seemed to enjoy the "JUMP!" Can all hybrids multi-jump? Or is that a myth?

I guess it's settled now that Baltar isn't a Cylon, since he wasn't infected.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> That hybrid really seemed to enjoy the "JUMP!" Can all hybrids multi-jump? Or is that a myth?
> 
> I guess it's settled now that Baltar isn't a Cylon, since he wasn't infected.


I guess so.... they probably would not have sent him if he was one of the 5 models we hadn't seen yet.

By the way, I love the fact that he lived on New Caprica for months with the Cylons and never before made the connection that there had only been the 7 models known to the humans on the planet.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> Boomer was shot by Cally after she shot Adama.
> 
> Although it was difficult to decipher, I think I agree with what cyke93 said about Starbuck's hair. Why, oh why did she have to cut it off?


Yes, then Boomer was transferred to a body on Caprica where she and Caprica-Six convinced the Cylons to abandon Caprica. Then with the exception of a brief appearance here and there during the New Caprica occupation, she has mostly remain out of sight. Did RDM run out of ideas for using her?


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

mchasal said:


> It's a hybrid between the skin-job cylon and the ship-type cylon. The advanced processing ability of the skin job merged with the power of the ship.


But I thought we had established that the "ship-type" Cylons (Raiders), are also half-machine/half-biological.

And it appears that the base stars are as well. So it's confusing to call the hybrids "hybrid", when it seems that all Cylons are hybrid. I think rather than being a hybrid they are just another step in Cylon evolution. Somewhere in between Centurions and skin-jobs.

It will be interesting to see exactly what position they have in the Cylon hierarchy. At this point they seem to be more slave than anything else.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> Although it was difficult to decipher, I think I agree with what cyke93 said about Starbuck's hair. Why, oh why did she have to cut it off?


It was so obviously fake that I'm glad they got rid of it. Same with the fat suit.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

PJO1966 said:


> By the way, I love the fact that he lived on New Caprica for months with the Cylons and never before made the connection that there had only been the 7 models known to the humans on the planet.


Well, he WAS pretty busy. What with all the drinkin' and whorin'...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

She sort of redeemed herself at the end but I still want to punch Starbuck in the face 4 or 5 times.

Can somebody give Tighe an eye patch?


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Yes, what is the deal with the lack of eyepatches?

As for Starbuck's hair, I found this interesting note in Katee Sackhoff's Wiki entry:

"On the back of her neck is a Japanese kanji symbol for 'choice' which is rarely seen in the series and one of the reasons she grew her hair longer between the mini-series and Season 2."


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

cyke93 said:


> I type like how one speaks in normal conversation. This is a message board, not a technical writing class.


I guess I am talking to the wrong people then!


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Most of my posts are written conversationally, but I still try to spell correctly. Your spelling doesn't have to be correct when you talk, but it does help when you write.

Spoken grammar is certainly looser than written grammar, but there's still a solid structure there.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

quango said:


> Here's a more serious issue: how can the Scroll of Pythia say how the 13th Tribe got to Earth, and how can there be a planetarium on Kobol built before the exodus from Kobol showing the stars as seen from Earth?


Maybe one of the Thirteenth-Colonists returned to the 12-Colonies with an update on how the expedition was going?

Or maybe before departing for Earth, an advance scout or expedition was sent to map the way, and they returned with the star map that made it into the scrolls?

Some explanation can be found, I'm sure ...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I guess it's settled now that Baltar isn't a Cylon, since he wasn't infected.


Although ... Baltar was in a sealed spacesuit, so the fact that he's not infected doesn't mean he's NOT a Cylon!

It could be that he's one of the 5 models not spoken of, and since no one ever speaks of them, maybe the known Cylons are not aware what the other 5 models even look like. (Please, join my stretch with me ... )


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

drew2k said:


> It could be that he's one of the 5 models not spoken of, and since no one ever speaks of them, maybe the known Cylons are not aware what the other 5 models even look like. (Please, join my stretch with me ... )


Well, if he were one of the five, there would be a couple of good reasons the Cylons don't like to talk about him! (Operational security, and good taste.)


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

PJO1966 said:


> I guess so.... they probably would not have sent him if he was one of the 5 models we hadn't seen yet.
> 
> By the way, I love the fact that he lived on New Caprica for months with the Cylons and never before made the connection that there had only been the 7 models known to the humans on the planet.


He only brought it up now because it's now that he's worried he's a cylon.


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## Dmtalon (Dec 28, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> She sort of redeemed herself at the end but I still want to punch Starbuck in the face 4 or 5 times.
> 
> Can somebody give Tighe an eye patch?


I'm guessing he doesn't need the patch where he's headed... Just a guess though


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I expcted Tighe to blow his head off at the end. Wouldn't have bothered me much.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

:up:


cheesesteak said:


> I expcted Tighe to blow his head off at the end. Wouldn't have bothered me much.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I expcted Tighe to blow his head off at the end. Wouldn't have bothered me much.


<drunken-one-eyed-surly-Tigh>

Why you ungrateful punk! You don't like me? Well, frak you. And frak the gods-damned lot of you, all of you living in comfort on Galactica while planet-side we've been fighting the toasters, fighting for our very survival.

You think you're better than me, don't you? But you don't know the first gods-damned thing about me. I KILLED MY WIFE to protect us, and I was sober at the time. You definitely don't want to mess with me NOW, mister, you got me?

Now get outta here before I frakkin' do something you'll regret!

Pass me that bottle, Starbuck. Starbuck? Where'd you go? ....

</drunken-one-eyed-surly-Tigh>


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## ChemB (Nov 5, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Although ... Baltar was in a sealed spacesuit, so the fact that he's not infected doesn't mean he's NOT a Cylon!
> 
> It could be that he's one of the 5 models not spoken of, and since no one ever speaks of them, maybe the known Cylons are not aware what the other 5 models even look like. (Please, join my stretch with me ... )


Wouldn't four of the Cylon models be the old cylon centurion mentioned in the 2003 miniseries, the new centurion, the Raider fighter and the Hybrid/Basestar?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Maybe this is one of the 5:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ChemB said:


> Wouldn't four of the Cylon models be the old cylon centurion mentioned in the 2003 miniseries, the new centurion, the Raider fighter and the Hybrid/Basestar?


No, it's 12 humanoid models (and, apparently, ONLY 12).


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

quango said:


> On Athena's reaction... in the Podcast, Moore says she's not infected.
> 
> Here's a more serious issue: how can the Scroll of Pythia say how the 13th Tribe got to Earth, and how can there be a planetarium on Kobol built before the exodus from Kobol showing the stars as seen from Earth?


Not sure where I got it, but I always thought that the "13th Colony" was the origin of all of the 12 colonies... Not that it makes any sense to call it a colony.

I was always under the impression that it was like Firefly's "Earth That Was", the origin of life, but long lost in the sands of time. In this case maybe they even forgot it was their origin in the first place and they refer to it as the 13th colony. I thought that's why they carry so much of earth's mythology, gods based on the constellations and the zodiac, etc.

That's why it never struck me as odd that these ancient documents or maps had earth information, because those were clues to what had been forgotten over time.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I expcted Tighe to blow his head off at the end. Wouldn't have bothered me much.


same here...especially since he said "you won't see me again" or something like that...


----------



## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

Did anybody else notice the odd tone in 6's voice when she said "we don't talk about them" when referring to the unseen 5? Almost as if they're scared of them for one reasonor another. Either they're somehow dangerous/unstable, or they're defective in a way that scares the 7 we know. Kind of like a relative with a horrible genetic disease you aren't sure you don't have as well.

I thought that the probe showed clear signs of having some kind of mold/fungus growing on it indicating that the sickness is a biological one, not a radiation-induced one. Which makes me wonder why they made sure that none of them got resurrected. Maybe that's just SOP when they aren't sure of the type of infection they're dealing with. _Just in case_ it's a programming virus instead of a physical one that wouldn't follow during resurrection.

I think the probe itself was probably left behind by the 13th colony as an advanced warning incase others followed in their footsteps. It seems fairly clear that they didn't want to have anything to do with the other 12 considering that they went in their own direction and left no forwarding address.

As for how the scrolls of Pithea knew of the nebula when they were written by someone who didn't go on the journey you've got to remember one detail: They're prophesies, not a standard account of history. Just like how they mentioned the leader seeing 12 serpents which Roslin saw while on the drug, and what pretty clearly foretold a Cylon helping them find the map.


----------



## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

I think I'm doubly confused. Where did all these colonists originate from? Where did they come from to form the 12 colonies (13 counting earth)? Was that ever mentioned here or in the original series?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Kobol is the human race's homeworld. The 13 colonies come from there. 12 became the colonies from the series; the 13th went to a mythical world called Earth.


----------



## cyke93 (Jan 29, 2004)

Graymalkin said:


> Most of my posts are written conversationally, but I still try to spell correctly. Your spelling doesn't have to be correct when you talk, but it does help when you write.
> 
> Spoken grammar is certainly looser than written grammar, but there's still a solid structure there.


Must be a generational gap. The spoken and written language are different. With the advent of the internet, there is a new subclass if the written language, combining that of the spoken ... ull find most ppl of my generation.. bout mid-early 20s who grew up on the internet to talk like this ..shortnin as much as possble but the message remains da same .. just look how ppl text each other ahaha


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## cyke93 (Jan 29, 2004)

DLiquid said:


> It was so obviously fake that I'm glad they got rid of it. Same with the fat suit.


the fat suit did nothing to enhance lee.. the hair most certaintly turned starbuck into a total cutey.. fake or not let them grow !!! hehe. even dee looks much better without her hair being pulled back and now is straightened.. roslin has volume with her and 6 and boomer have always been total hotties... that just leaves us with what to do about cali hehe


----------



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Starbuck looks better with short hair, in my opinion.


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## Bondelev-1 (Nov 27, 2005)

cyke93 said:


> Must be a generational gap. The spoken and written language are different. With the advent of the internet, there is a new subclass if the written language, combining that of the spoken.


There have always been two forms or written language: formal and informal. A business letter would be formal, a letter to a friend of lover is informal and more like normal conversation. The Internet has encouraged informal writing styles. I'm not sure that's all bad.


----------



## Hersheytx (Feb 15, 2003)

I am wondering if they took a page from the Holloween episode of Galactica 1980.
The Microwaves emitted from the defective microwave that caused the ceturion to go all weak in the knee.
Though the human one was not harmed....not sure how close he was to the microwave.
Just a thought.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

Why can't the Cylons go back to the world they had before they attacked the colonies? Lucy Lawless said they were going to make Earth their new home. Why do they have to move on? It sounds like they have given up on whatever plan they have for the fleet. 

So if they aren't trying to find Earth for any reason to do with the colonies then I'm wondering if the remaining 5 have something to do with them not being able to return.

J


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

cyke93 said:


> Must be a generational gap. The spoken and written language are different. With the advent of the internet, there is a new subclass if the written language, combining that of the spoken ... ull find most ppl of my generation.. bout mid-early 20s who grew up on the internet to talk like this ..shortnin as much as possble but the message remains da same .. just look how ppl text each other ahaha


I weep for the future.  Now get off of my lawn!!!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

jwjody said:


> Why can't the Cylons go back to the world they had before they attacked the colonies? Lucy Lawless said they were going to make Earth their new home. Why do they have to move on? It sounds like they have given up on whatever plan they have for the fleet.
> 
> So if they aren't trying to find Earth for any reason to do with the colonies then I'm wondering if the remaining 5 have something to do with them not being able to return.
> 
> J


Unless I'm mistaken, aren't there now two factions of Cylons? The original faction, bent on destroying the human race, and the newer faction, fostered by Six and Boomer, intent on "nurturing" the human race to accept their one and true god?

I don't recall if Six and Boomer had convinced all of the Cylons to take this new approach, so it could be that the Cylon home world is not going to accept their "enlightened" attitude towards the humans...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Figaro said:


> I weep for the future.


I weep with thee. Where's the babelfish translator that converts crap like that to English? Messages such as that may as well be written in Latin - I'm not going to read those either.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

drew2k said:


> I weep with thee. Where's the babelfish translator that converts crap like that to English? Messages such as that may as well be written in Latin - I'm not going to read those either.


Actually, I can handle Latin (I majored in it). It's this new stuff that I find incomprehensible. It's fine if you're texting with the other kids, but when you're hanging out with grown-ups, it seems that English should be the preferred language.

The simple solution is I just don't read posts that don't use, y'know, sentences and capitalization and punctuation and stuff. My life doesn't seem the poorer for it.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

drew2k said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, aren't there now two factions of Cylons? The original faction, bent on destroying the human race, and the newer faction, fostered by Six and Boomer, intent on "nurturing" the human race to accept their one and true god?
> 
> I don't recall if Six and Boomer had convinced all of the Cylons to take this new approach, so it could be that the Cylon home world is not going to accept their "enlightened" attitude towards the humans...


We're almost saying the same thing. There's a reason the Cylons can't/aren't going back to where they were before the attacks.

Another "if"

If the Spylons are numbered according to when they came off the line (and I think they've mentioned that's how it is, didn't they say Boomer was an earlier model and flawed?) then we've met models 1-7, it's the newest models that are the ones never mentioned.

Curious if the newer models led their own revolt.

J


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

jwjody said:


> If the Spylons are numbered according to when they came off the line (and I think they've mentioned that's how it is, didn't they say Boomer was an earlier model and flawed?) then we've met models 1-7, it's the newest models that are the ones never mentioned.


I think the un-Cylons were referred to by one of the characters as the later models.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

BrettStah said:


> Starbuck looks better with short hair, in my opinion.


+1


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I hope Borat is one of the "unseen" models.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jwjody said:


> If the Spylons are numbered according to when they came off the line (and I think they've mentioned that's how it is, didn't they say Boomer was an earlier model and flawed?) then we've met models 1-7, it's the newest models that are the ones never mentioned.


I don't think we know Boomer's model number...I seem to recall Six saying that Boomer is a younger model than her (i.e. model 9 or 10, not 2 or 3)...and that she seemed more capable of "feeling" than her (this was during the "let's hook her up with Helo" part on Caprica)...

lots of things to infer if indeed Boomer is a late (young) model...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I don't think we know Boomer's model number...I seem to recall Six saying that Boomer is a younger model than her (i.e. model 9 or 10, not 2 or 3)...and that she seemed more capable of "feeling" than her (this was during the "let's hook her up with Helo" part on Caprica)...
> 
> lots of things to infer if indeed Boomer is a late (young) model...


Per Wikipedia, Sharon is the eighth model.


> # 2 Humanoid Cylons
> 
> * 2.1 Number Three (aka D'Anna Biers)
> * 2.2 Number Five (aka Aaron Doral)
> ...


To list them in model number order ...

01 =
02 =
03 = D'Anna Biers
04 =
05 = Aaron Doral
06 = Six (Caprica Six, Gina)
07 =
08 = Sharon (Boomer, Athena)
09 =
10 =
11 =
12 =

Unknown model number = Brother Cavil
Unknown model number = Leoben Conoy
Unknown model number = Simon

Note that the models are spread out, so there is no contiguous group of five that would account for the five humanoid models that are not discussed.

It's also interesting to note which of the humanoid Cylon models have faith:

Leoben and Six are true believers, thinking their god has a plan for them, but they differ to a degree in that Leoben attributes everything the hybrid says to their god, while Six apparently thinks most of the hybrid's words are meaningless.

As portrayed so far, Doral and Cavil seem to be agnostics, and have little tolerance for talk of any god.

I don't know about D'Anna, but Sharon seems to know her Scrolls...


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

I'm pretty sure that Brother Cavil has been identified as Number 2. But I have no evidence to be sure.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> I'm pretty sure that Brother Cavil has been identified as Number 2. But I have no evidence to be sure.


During one of the episodes on New Crapica, the doctor came out of the medical tent and talked to D'anna. He mentioned that they were operating on one of the models that had been shot up pretty badly. I don't know what model number he said it was, but I believe it was assumed to be one of the Cavil models (I think we hear his screams coming from the tent).

I don't have that episode anymore, but I'm sure someone around here does.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

I came across this video yesterday on the Sci-Fi website: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=features&vid=35344

It's pretty good.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

madscientist said:


> I couldn't believe that they let Baltar back on the original base star without a quarantine or decontamination or anything. Maybe we just have to assume they didn't. But with a virus that deadly they sure seemed cavalier about it.


It depends on whether it's a biological or memetic/computer virus. If it's the latter, then he should be clean (unless of course he really _is_ a cylon  ).



drew2k said:


> (When Baltar first told Six that he spent "hours, days, weeks, no, months" studying the location of Earth, I thought he was making it up to save his skin, but I guess he really WAS studying it ...)


Yeah, and what puzzles me in retrospect is why he _didn't_ tell them about his studies immediately when they first brought it up? Usually his self-serving instincts kick in a little sooner than that; he already knew that they were evaluating him...



PJO1966 said:


> By the way, I love the fact that he lived on New Caprica for months with the Cylons and never before made the connection that there had only been the 7 models known to the humans on the planet.


He probably assumed that the other models simply stayed on the basestars rather than revealing themselves. Now that he's on a basestar himself, he can see that they aren't there either.



cheesesteak said:


> Can somebody give Tighe an eye patch?


"Arr, Cap'n Bligh --err, Tighe, reportin' fer dutee!"


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

cyke93 said:


> Must be a generational gap. The spoken and written language are different. With the advent of the internet, there is a new subclass if the written language, combining that of the spoken ... ull find most ppl of my generation.. bout mid-early 20s who grew up on the internet to talk like this ..shortnin as much as possble but the message remains da same .. just look how ppl text each other ahaha


It has nothing to do with generations.

Abbreviations because you don't want to spend a lot of time typing is one thing, although it does get annoying in forums. You're not texting on a cell phone here.

Saying you need to loose weight instead of saying you need to lose weight and everything similar, is ignorance. Having it pointed out to you, then saying it's a generational gap is stupidity.

Greg


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Anubys said:


> Athena was immediately infected, it seems...
> 
> I'm surprised the cylons did not send Baltar back with a nuke to destroy the base ship...now they left evidence for the humans to investigate and figure out how to infect the cylons...


I don't think Athena was infected, but she was definately aware that something was wrong.

I wondered why they didn't blow it up as well.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

jwjody said:


> We're almost saying the same thing. There's a reason the Cylons can't/aren't going back to where they were before the attacks.
> 
> Another "if"
> 
> ...


If you think about it the Cylons have to have a reason to not go on ahead of the humans. If these "bombs" are laid out along the path to earth the Cylons will need to let the humans go ahead and clear the way.


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## dsb411 (Sep 29, 2004)

Message for all you nit picky grammar freaks:
Please stop filling up these forum discussion pages with useless and unproductive gibberish.
Thank you

Message 4 all u net typn fr33ks:
Plz stop killn the boards w/ spam.
Thx


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

dsb411 said:


> Message for all you nit picky grammar freaks:
> Please stop filling up these forum discussion pages with useless and unproductive gibberish.
> Thank you
> 
> ...


Wow! Bilingual! :up:


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> If you think about it the Cylons have to have a reason to not go on ahead of the humans. If these "bombs" are laid out along the path to earth the Cylons will need to let the humans go ahead and clear the way.


But they announced they were going to live on Earth before they found the cause of the virus.

J


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

drew2k said:


> Per Wikipedia, Sharon is the eighth model.
> To list them in model number order ...
> 
> 01 =
> ...


For the sake of argument let us say that the first model was too complex to create in numbers, considered too valuable, or was a prototype that the others are based upon. Later models were designed to fit into human society in varying capacities. Then, starting with Boomer they wanted an even more human like model, but Sharon proved to be unstable. We've already seen that the Sharon model is likely to become independent, so what if later models were even more so or were failed attempts to mimic real humans that worked too well.

TPTB certainly want to leave their options open here holding the five in reserve for a while.


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## RainyCity4 (Jun 23, 2003)

I guess I'll put this in spoilers for those who don't want to be spoiled.



Spoiler



I believe it was in TV Guide where they spoke of "boxing" (Spylons who are removed from the collective and permanently shut down and all bodies are removed and destroyed) and I think they are hinting that 7 of 12 were "boxed" and in one of the episodes, one of the models are boxed.


Brent


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

jwjody said:


> But they announced they were going to live on Earth before they found the cause of the virus.
> 
> J


That could very well be the intent. At some point however if the storyline holds true they'll have to start following the humans rather than forging along ahead of them. I also think that Baltar will be back in the fleet at some point preaching the benefit of the Cylon and asking people to welcome their Cylon overlords.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> For the sake of argument let us say that the first model was too complex to create in numbers, considered too valuable, or was a prototype that the others are based upon. Later models were designed to fit into human society in varying capacities. Then, starting with Boomer they wanted an even more human like model, but Sharon proved to be unstable. We've already seen that the Sharon model is likely to become independent, so what if later models were even more so or were failed attempts to mimic real humans that worked too well.
> 
> TPTB certainly want to leave their options open here holding the five in reserve for a while.


That works, but I would swap two of the models:

01 =
02 = conjecture: *Brother Cavil*
03 = D'Anna Biers
04 = conjecture: *Simon*
05 = Aaron Doral
06 = Six (Caprica Six, Gina)
07 = conjecture: *Leoben Conoy*
08 = Sharon (Boomer, Athena)
09 =
10 =
11 =
12 =

My reasoning is that Six, Leoben, and Sharon seem to be more emotional, capable of forming attachments, and "religious", whereas the earlier known models are a little more cut-and-dry. This would support the evolution of the models from machine to human.

It also may explain why the first model and last four models are not discussed. As you suggest, the first is too primitive. Maybe the last four all altogether too human or zealous, and their emotions are more than the others could handle or bear?


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Interesting lineup Drew. I always thought of Simon as "7" - maybe because they just sound similar. Clearly, Leobon and Sharon are less stable than the others. I like your lineup.

The question emerges: are the remaining 5 shut down, or still active and part of a splinter group of cylons?

Perhaps that's why these 7 models returned to the colonies - they were forced to leave their homeworld and find a new home. They got embroiled in a cylon civil war.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I hope Borat is one of the "unseen" models.


And I hope Gilbert Gottfried is NOT!


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

dcheesi said:


> It depends on whether it's a biological or memetic/computer virus. If it's the latter, then he should be clean (unless of course he really _is_ a cylon  ).


Sure, he himself might be clean. But whatever it was lived in that probe out in space for hundreds of years. Seems like it could easily contaminate the Raptor, or his space suit, or whatever. I'm sure it was one of those things we just have to assume they handled because it was too boring to mention in the show.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

madscientist said:


> Sure, he himself might be clean. But whatever it was lived in that probe out in space for hundreds of years. Seems like it could easily contaminate the Raptor, or his space suit, or whatever. I'm sure it was one of those things we just have to assume they handled because it was too boring to mention in the show.


I imagine if it was an issue, the writers would've let us know somehow. Since there was no mention of it, then there is no issue. End of story.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Supfreak26 said:


> I imagine if it was an issue, the writers would've let us know somehow. Since there was no mention of it, then there is no issue. End of story.


Unless they decide next week that it would be cool to make it an issue.

That's the one thing that bugs me about this show...


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

Baltar is model number one. There is only one of him.

The last four are either rebels (as I guessed last week) or they are the seat of power in the cylon government. Making the cylons we know the rebels.

Just a guess.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

If the models go from least emotional to most emotional, then there are actually a few additional models, with some of the women I've dated being at the end. They'd be too emotionally unstable to function as normal cylons. Their duty would be to make paper decorations and come up with apocalyptic sayings in response to broken fingernails. Oh and they'd probably be the cylon doctors, and would use reiki to heal, since it doesn't really matter if they die.

Because that's what I thought of when it was aid, "We don't talk about them".


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getbak said:


> During one of the episodes on New Crapica, the doctor came out of the medical tent and talked to D'anna. He mentioned that they were operating on one of the models that had been shot up pretty badly. I don't know what model number he said it was, but I believe it was assumed to be one of the Cavil models (I think we hear his screams coming from the tent).
> 
> I don't have that episode anymore, but I'm sure someone around here does.


It was "one of the fives" that Doc Cottle said they were working on.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

devdogaz said:


> It was "one of the fives" that Doc Cottle said they were working on.


Doesn't it seem strange that the Cylons rely on a human doctor to patch them up? Shouldn't they have their own doctors with special training in Cylon physiology and ailments, even if they are awfully similar to humans in most regards?

--Debbie


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

ThePennyDropped said:


> Doesn't it seem strange that the Cylons rely on a human doctor to patch them up? Shouldn't they have their own doctors with special training in Cylon physiology and ailments, even if they are awfully similar to humans in most regards?
> 
> --Debbie


Why? If they're badly injured just finish them off to be downloaded into a fresh new body. Only late in the New Caprica occupation did Brother Cavil mention that it hurt more and longer every time they downloaded so they've never had any incentive to try to heal a body. The doctor probably only patched up the skinjob because of his medical training /oath to try and save all life. Hippocratic oathes probably don't take downloading into account.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

The question about the doctor treating the Cylons made me think of something: Do Cylons age? 

We know they can be killed (shot, strangled, pushed out an airlock), and that their bodies are almost indistinguishable from humans. They bleed and have cells, but those cells don't apparently regenerate, because they can certainly bleed to death. So shouldn't the Cylons age over time?

What about Boomer? She was a sleeper Cylon. Were her memories of a childhood planted, or did she actually grow up?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

drew2k said:


> The question about the doctor treating the Cylons made me think of something: Do Cylons age?
> 
> We know they can be killed (shot, strangled, pushed out an airlock), and that their bodies are almost indistinguishable from humans. They bleed and have cells, but those cells don't apparently regenerate, because they can certainly bleed to death. So shouldn't the Cylons age over time?
> 
> What about Boomer? She was a sleeper Cylon. Were her memories of a childhood planted, or did she actually grow up?


They had explained at one point that her memories were planted. The idea of them aging is interesting. If Cavil is one of the earlier models it would make sense that he appears older than the others. Of course they could have just created him to look as he does.

I've said it before, but I would hate to be a set of identical twins or worse yet, triplets surviving the initial attack on Caprica. You'd find yourself in an airlock.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

PJO1966 said:


> They had explained at one point that her memories were planted. The idea of them aging is interesting. If Cavil is one of the earlier models it would make sense that he appears older than the others. Of course they could have just created him to look as he does.


Cavil is one of the reasons I thought of this. He could have purposely been designed to appear older, so that they have Cylone models to infiltrate almost all levels of Colonial society (excepting teen and under, I'd guess), but he could also have aged. If he does age, then maybe that's why his model is resurrecting with problems (he described pain, etc.)? Could the physical age of the deceased model have an impact on the resurrection of the model?



> I've said it before, but I would hate to be a set of identical twins or worse yet, triplets surviving the initial attack on Caprica. You'd find yourself in an airlock.


LOL. So true!


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

mostman said:


> Baltar is model number one. There is only one of him.


"Baltar, coordinate!"


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

madscientist said:


> Sure, he himself might be clean. But whatever it was lived in that probe out in space for hundreds of years. Seems like it could easily contaminate the Raptor, or his space suit, or whatever. I'm sure it was one of those things we just have to assume they handled because it was too boring to mention in the show.


D'Anna talked about the members of that base ship transferring the infection during downloading, so it isn't physical, or at least she was guessing it wasn't physical. That's why the resurrection ship was to stay out of range. If the disease was merely physical, they would have no fear of transferring it through that vector. Baltar took blood samples, so I guess they were covering all bets. We don't know what they did to decontaminate the Raptor and Baltar's suit. THAT just isn't important to the story line.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Church AV Guy said:


> D'Anna talked about the members of that base ship transferring the infection during downloading, so it isn't physical, or at least she was guessing it wasn't physical. That's why the resurrection ship was to stay out of range. If the disease was merely physical, they would have no fear of transferring it through that vector.


The way I remember it, she was talking in hypotheticals. They didn't know if it could be transferred that way: they had no idea what it was. Maybe (probably) it couldn't be transferred during downloading, but they didn't want to take any chances.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

getbak said:


> I came across this video yesterday on the Sci-Fi website: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=features&vid=35344
> 
> It's pretty good.


Cool! It was pretty good. I'd seen a bunch of the q&a and other content there, but I never would've even thought to click on that one.

Slightly OT, is it me do they change the content available under the Video > Features section? I could've sworn that the other day they only had season 2 and 3 content. Now it's season 1 and 3.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

gchance said:


> It has nothing to do with generations.
> 
> Abbreviations because you don't want to spend a lot of time typing is one thing, although it does get annoying in forums. You're not texting on a cell phone here.
> 
> ...


I'm 31 and I abbreviate/shorten things when talking to people on IM and sometimes in informal email but differently/not to the degree that cyke93 does. In forums like this, I definitely don't do that.

I propose we do what Mark Twain (supposedly) proposed.  http://www.plainlanguage.gov/examples/humor/marktwain.cfm


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

cwerdna said:


> I'm 31 and I abbreviate/shorten things when talking to people on IM and sometimes in informal email but differently/not to the degree that cyke93 does. In forums like this, I definitely don't do that.
> 
> I propose we do what Mark Twain (supposedly) proposed.  http://www.plainlanguage.gov/examples/humor/marktwain.cfm


It wasn't Twain. The actual source is referenced here under Misattributions.


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Dmtalon said:


> I'm guessing he doesn't need the patch where he's headed... Just a guess though


Event Horizon references are no longer allowed on these forums.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

getbak said:


> During one of the episodes on *New Crapica*, the doctor came out of the medical tent and talked to D'anna. He mentioned that they were operating on one of the models that had been shot up pretty badly. I don't know what model number he said it was, but I believe it was assumed to be one of the Cavil models (I think we hear his screams coming from the tent).
> 
> I don't have that episode anymore, but I'm sure someone around here does.


Thank you. I almost snorted. 

Although I still can't tell if it was just a typo or done purposely...


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

cyke93 said:


> all joking aside .. i think the 13th colony placed the virus there intended for the humans. think of it as, yeah we dont want you to follow us or find us.. but im glad that we shifted back on the search to find earth


OK, here goes...

<speculation>
The 13th colony went and found Earth, making the scrolls along the way. They got to Earth, only to find us first humans there and more technologically advanced than they coul ever dream. We then did two things:

1) We decided that they were too primitive to live among us, and decided to send them back to their own people.

2) We saw that they had Cylons and knew that they would eventually evolve / rebel. We liked these cute new primitives and decided to give them a virus that would kill any Cylon coming in contact. We knew how to do this because unlike natural evolution, the Cylons always evolved in the same way. So we said "here, take this and leave them in probes along the way. The rebels will pick them up and be killed."

The 13th colonists did what they were told, made it to the lion head, and secretly reintegrated themselves into the other 12 colonies, and hid the scrolls, the arrow, and all that other junk. They've long since died off.
</speculation>

<other wildly speculative scenario>
Cylon skin-job number 1 CAME from Earth. He tried to rebel, but we were too smart and already knew how to kill him. (This is where the Cylon killing disease came from!) So he went away, and eventually found some primitive Cylons living out their days on some planet and said "hey, help me make more skin-jobs." They created the later models, but since number one didn't know much about the Cylon killing virus, he couldn't make them immune to it. He has since died off.
</other wildly speculative scenario>

<awesome conversation for future episode of BSG>
Arriving to Earth...

13th Colonist: Hey, there are people here!
Earth Person: Who are you?
13th Colonist: We found Earth!
Earth Person: Who are you?
13th Colonist: We came from some space colonies. Hey, those outfits are cool!
<a Cylon walks out of the ship>
Earth Person: You have robots.
13th Colonist: Robots?
Earth Person: <pointing>That thing.
13th Colonist: Oh, that's a Cylon. Don't mind it - it won't hurt you.
Earth Person: Robots become self aware. They try to kill humans.
13th Colonist: What?
Earth Person: You're too primitive to understand. Take this superadvanced technovirus and find your way back to your people, leaving these in probes along the way. The virus will know what to do when the time comes.
13th Colonist: What?
Earth Person: Go now, ape!
13th Colonist: We don't understand.
Earth Person: Take these three ancient discs called "DVDs." They should be viewed in order - Terminator, Terminator II, and Terminator 3.
13th Colonist: Aight then.
<after watching the movies>
13th Colonist: OH SNAP.
Earth Person: Yep. Now go and do what we told you.
13th Colonist: Can we have a way cool super advanced piece of technology to take with us?
Earth Person: Sure, take this children's star map program.
13th Colonist: Cool! We can use this as a super vague future clue!
Earth Person: Yeah, whatever.
13th Colonist: Can we have some candy?
Earth Person: No.

13th Colonist ship leaves. Earth laughs at them for thinking a child's toy is super advanced tech.
</awesome conversation>


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

classicX said:


> Thank you. I almost snorted.
> 
> Although I still can't tell if it was just a typo or done purposely...


It wasn't a typo.


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## rlc1 (Sep 15, 2003)

PJO1966 said:


> By the way, I love the fact that he lived on New Caprica for months with the Cylons and never before made the connection that there had only been the 7 models known to the humans on the planet.


My feeling about the 'missing 5' is that the producers just don't want to have to come up with a semi-regular cast of 12 individual Cylons (at least not yet?). This show already has a pretty big recurring cast....


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## tgr131 (May 23, 2001)

Has Lee returned to being a Major, or did they just not repaint his viper?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

tgr131 said:


> Has Lee returned to being a Major, or did they just not repaint his viper?


I see no reason to demote him...I'm sure they have more important things to do than re-paint a viper...


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## tgr131 (May 23, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I see no reason to demote him...I'm sure they have more important things to do than re-paint a viper...


I agree, and keeping Lee as a Commander keeps him high enough in the chain of command to keep Tigh out of the hot seat should something happen to the admiral.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

tgr131 said:


> I agree, and keeping Lee as a Commander keeps him high enough in the chain of command to keep Tigh out of the hot seat should something happen to the admiral.


Tighe wouldn't be next in line anyway, it would be Hilo. Tighe is nothing but a drunk, one-eyed civilian who's allowed to keep his old quarters for some reason.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

PJO1966 said:


> Tighe wouldn't be next in line anyway, it would be Hilo. Tighe is nothing but a drunk, one-eyed civilian who's allowed to keep his old quarters for some reason.


don't bottle it up...tell us how you really feel!


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## tgr131 (May 23, 2001)

Did Tighe resign his commission, or was he fired? I thought he was still a COL, and high enough in the food chain to cause some problems if Adama was down. I don't think Helo has enough time in grade to command a capital ship -- Lee has commanded the Pegasus successfully, while Tighe's brief command of the Galactica was a failure (although he gets props for commanding the insurgency).


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

tgr131 said:


> Did Tighe resign his commission, or was he fired? I thought he was still a COL, and high enough in the food chain to cause some problems if Adama was down. I don't think Helo has enough time in grade to command a capital ship -- Lee has commanded the Pegasus successfully, while Tighe's brief command of the Galactica was a failure (although he gets props for commanding the insurgency).


Tighe has served his purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if he just drank himself to death.

... and that's how I really feel.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Tigh has proven his worth as a superior tactical officer...he did a fantastic job of fighting off the cylons when they were attacking Galactica and - like it or not - managed the insurgency quite well... 

he is an excellent war-time/crisis-time officer but a complete failure as a human being and as a normal commander... 

Adama is not a son-of-a-***** enough...Tigh fills that role...Adama needs him...


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Can we all just have a moment of silence for Fat Apollo? Your gut shall be missed my friend, it truly shall be missed.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> Tigh has proven his worth as a superior tactical officer...he did a fantastic job of fighting off the cylons when they were attacking Galactica and - like it or not - managed the insurgency quite well...
> 
> he is an excellent war-time/crisis-time officer but a complete failure as a human being and as a normal commander...
> 
> Adama is not a son-of-a-***** enough...Tigh fills that role...Adama needs him...


Does this mean I need to change my sig?


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## tgr131 (May 23, 2001)

Yes, let's all mourn Fat Apollo, and his man-boobs.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

tgr131 said:


> Yes, let's all mourn Fat Apollo, and his man-boobs.


I'm just glad we have hot Apollo back. He was missed.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Tigh has proven his worth as a superior tactical officer...he did a fantastic job of fighting off the cylons when they were attacking Galactica and - like it or not - managed the insurgency quite well...
> 
> he is an excellent war-time/crisis-time officer but a complete failure as a human being and as a normal commander...


Good lord, I thought just the opposite. He was a complete catastrophe as a commander; if Adama hadn't recovered when he did, the fleet would have self-destructed very shortly. He's very good at carrying out Adama's orders, but I can't think of a time when he gave orders on his own initiative and it worked out well. He basically dithers until it's too late, then says whatever the last person yelling suggestions at him said. And then he is completely inflexible, no matter how badly it turns out.

I agree, however, that he makes a good Al-Quaeda leader...


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## tgr131 (May 23, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> He's very good at carrying out Adama's orders, but I can't think of a time when he gave orders on his own initiative and it worked out well.
> 
> I agree, however, that he makes a good Al-Quaeda leader...


Well, there was that one time where he launched the Alert fighters, and saved the ship from the cylon trying to ram the bridge... (IIRC...)

Other than that, I agree with you.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Tigh was not the dictator of the resistence. The chief and blarnsball player was there too. I don't think Tigh had ultimately power over them. I suspect a lot of the success of the resistence was because of the other two as well. And Gaeta.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Good lord, I thought just the opposite. He was a complete catastrophe as a commander; if Adama hadn't recovered when he did, the fleet would have self-destructed very shortly. He's very good at carrying out Adama's orders, but I can't think of a time when he gave orders on his own initiative and it worked out well. He basically dithers until it's too late, then says whatever the last person yelling suggestions at him said. And then he is completely inflexible, no matter how badly it turns out.
> 
> I agree, however, that he makes a good Al-Quaeda leader...


you're thinking of him as a peace-time commander...he was a disaster...I agree...

but remember when the cylons were attacking and were trying to board Galactica? that's what I'm talking about...he was the only officer on deck that understood the situation instantly, was two steps ahead of everyone in anticipating what the cylons would do, and had a counter-plan in motion before everyone else could blink...

this kind of talent is not easy to find...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

PJO1966 said:


> Does this mean I need to change my sig?


no way!


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Anubys said:


> you're thinking of him as a peace-time commander...he was a disaster...I agree...
> 
> but remember when the cylons were attacking and were trying to board Galactica? that's what I'm talking about...he was the only officer on deck that understood the situation instantly, was two steps ahead of everyone in anticipating what the cylons would do, and had a counter-plan in motion before everyone else could blink...
> 
> this kind of talent is not easy to find...


I interpretted that more as an old salt's experience, rather than any innate talent. Remember he and Adama were probably the only officers on Galactica at that time who had lived through the first Cylon War. (IIRC they were old enough to have actually fought in it.)


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Tigh was not the dictator of the resistence. The chief and blarnsball player was there too. I don't think Tigh had ultimately power over them. I suspect a lot of the success of the resistence was because of the other two as well. And Gaeta.


There was a meeting with Roslin where she was staring at Tigh saying that she couldn't believe he was going to have people suicide-bomb the market-place or something. Tigh said he had no problem with that. She definitively said NO, it would not happen, and it didn't. If Tigh were in charge, it really would have happened, but since it didn't, I can only conclude that Roslin or Tyrol were in charge, OR, it was the group in control rather than an individual.


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## LordFett (May 6, 2005)

quango said:


> Here's a more serious issue: how can the Scroll of Pythia say how the 13th Tribe got to Earth, and how can there be a planetarium on Kobol built before the exodus from Kobol showing the stars as seen from Earth?


Prophecy?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

LordFett said:


> Prophecy?


We are all assuming that the colonials are right and that Kobol is the planet of origin. It's entirely possible that Earth is the planet of origin and over time a Mythology developed around it. So when they arrived on Kobol they found the map leading to the planet of origin, not the 13th colony.

We have to remember that Kobol and the legends surrounding it are so old they forgot where it was. It's entirely likely they are wrong about Earth being a colony as well.

Also for all we know earth may end up being like Asimov's Foundation Earth, forgotten and recovering from an apocalyptic nuclear war.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Also for all we know earth may end up being like Asimov's Foundation Earth, forgotten and recovering from an apocalyptic nuclear war.


Funny you should mention that! I'm currently re-reading all of Asimov's future-histor novels, and for the first time I'm trying to read them in plot-chronological order. I'm about to finish the Robot series, and the Galactic Empire series is next.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> Tighe has served his purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if he just drank himself to death.
> 
> ... and that's how I really feel.


I keep hoping for the day that he decides to swallow his gun once and for all.

And yes, that's how I really feel, too.


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## kjnorman (Jun 21, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> We are all assuming that the colonials are right and that Kobol is the planet of origin. It's entirely possible that Earth is the planet of origin and over time a Mythology developed around it. So when they arrived on Kobol they found the map leading to the planet of origin, not the 13th colony.
> 
> We have to remember that Kobol and the legends surrounding it are so old they forgot where it was. It's entirely likely they are wrong about Earth being a colony as well.
> 
> Also for all we know earth may end up being like Asimov's Foundation Earth, forgotten and recovering from an apocalyptic nuclear war.


Or it could be like Stephen Baxter's Manifold: Space, where the galaxy goes though periods of expansion and collapse and occasional "sterilizations" over 10s or 100s of thousands of years. The intelligent species that manage to survive one of these events forget all about what happened before in "pre-history" as the galaxy is effectively wiped clean. The only way you can survive one of these events is to get out of the galaxy but the problem is that there usually is not enough time for the species to evolve enough to become technologically rich enough to escape.... So you evolve then die, then start again: evolve and die, so on and so forth. Only the lucky few escape. As six once said, and I paraphrase, it has happened before and will happen again.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

kjnorman said:


> Or it could be like Stephen Baxter's Manifold: Space, where the galaxy goes though periods of expansion and collapse and occasional "sterilizations" over 10s or 100s of thousands of years. The intelligent species that manage to survive one of these events forget all about what happened before in "pre-history" as the galaxy is effectively wiped clean. The only way you can survive one of these events is to get out of the galaxy but the problem is that there usually is not enough time for the species to evolve enough to become technologically rich enough to escape.... So you evolve then die, then start again: evolve and die, so on and so forth. Only the lucky few escape. As six once said, and I paraphrase, it has happened before and will happen again.


If I had to make a WAG I'd say that Galactica and crew will discover that the 13th colony experienced some fallout during the journey, losing colonists along the way to one disaster or another. So only a small group makes it to earth barely able to save themselves as they crash land in what our legends tell us is Atlantis. Naturally Atlantis sinks at some point and the survivors inhabit other parts of the world, but deprived of the technology they had before. Thus the slow build up to present day earth.

Of course, seeing how Galactica 1980 really tanked when present day Earth and futuristic Galactica was merged, I would hope BSG would find a technologically advanced Earth instead. Maybe not on the order of Battlestars with jump drives, but perhaps smaller vessels capable of making life difficult for the Cylon.


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## marrone (Oct 11, 2001)

Tigh needs to go.

As for Baltar being a cylon, they pretty much said he wasn't. I don't recall the exact phrasing, but when the skin jobs were trying to figure out the problem, they showed Baltar, and they said something to the extent of "We're Cylons, we're not like him". I don't think they said "We're not human like him". Hopefully someone can replay that part and see what was said, but I thought it was pretty clear that he is not a Cylon.

'Course, it was pretty funny when Baltar asked "Am I a Cylon?" And whichever skinjob he was following at the time seemed to get rather scared!

-Mike


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

marrone said:


> As for Baltar being a cylon, they pretty much said he wasn't. I don't recall the exact phrasing, but when the skin jobs were trying to figure out the problem, they showed Baltar, and they said something to the extent of "We're Cylons, we're not like him". I don't think they said "We're not human like him". Hopefully someone can replay that part and see what was said, but I thought it was pretty clear that he is not a Cylon.
> 
> 'Course, it was pretty funny when Baltar asked "Am I a Cylon?" And whichever skinjob he was following at the time seemed to get rather scared!
> 
> -Mike


I still think he's a Cylon.

The statement "We're Cylons, we're not like him" could be interpreted to be he is a different model than they are.
Or he is one of the humanoid models we haven't seen yet.
Each model being different from the other, "not like him".

I still can't get past the fact that he survived the original attack unscathed,
something's gotta be going on.

phox


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

phox_mulder said:


> The statement "We're Cylons, we're not like him" could be interpreted to be he is a different model than they are.


Not reasonably. The only logical sense of that is "We're not like him because, unlike him, we're Cylons."


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

they also sent him to the infected ship because he was NOT a cylon and thus in no danger of getting infected...


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Anubys said:


> they also sent him to the infected ship because he was NOT a cylon and thus in no danger of getting infected...


Or, they sent him to see if the "other" models of Cylon would be infected like their own models and the centurions/raiders.

One of these days I'll be the one saying "I called it", and referencing the first post I made a while back. 

phox


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

phox_mulder said:


> Or, they sent him to see if the "other" models of Cylon would be infected like their own models and the centurions/raiders.
> 
> One of these days I'll be the one saying "I called it", and referencing the first post I made a while back.
> 
> phox


that's fine...but if we're keeping score, I called Gaeta back in season 1


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