# Does 20.2 Make Upgrading to Premiere Worth It?



## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

When the Tivo Premiere was announced I was onboard for upgrading my TivoHD. But then I started reading all the negative reviews and finally canceled my order. Since then I've patiently been waiting for Tivo to upgrade the Premiere software. It now seems that with the release of 20.2 the Premiere is in a much more usable state.

So from those who have 20.2 running, do you feel that upgrading from TivoHD is now worthwhile? I understand there are still some bugs in 20.2: are any a deal breaker you think? Does the Premiere still crash? Any UI bugs that are intolerable? I'm looking for any opinions as if I upgrade I will be doing so with a lifetime subscription, so I want to be damn sure the Premiere is behaving as it should.

I appreciate any thoughts and opinions you may have.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

Thunderclap said:


> When the Tivo Premiere was announced I was onboard for upgrading my TivoHD. But then I started reading all the negative reviews and finally canceled my order. Since then I've patiently been waiting for Tivo to upgrade the Premiere software. It now seems that with the release of 20.2 the Premiere is in a much more usable state.
> 
> So from those who have 20.2 running, do you feel that upgrading from TivoHD is now worthwhile? I understand there are still some bugs in 20.2: are any a deal breaker you think? Does the Premiere still crash? Any UI bugs that are intolerable? I'm looking for any opinions as if I upgrade I will be doing so with a lifetime subscription, so I want to be damn sure the Premiere is behaving as it should.
> 
> I appreciate any thoughts and opinions you may have.


I dont have 20.2..yet..but owning a Premiere, regardless of how good it works at current Service pricing i'd say no. Its not worth upgrading from a TiVo HD. I also own one of those. From what I'm reading the Premiere Elite is another story. If you got plenty of money to throw around the Elite sounds like it may be worth it with its 4 tuners. On the bright side if you go with a Premiere you might get offered Lifetime Service on the THD for $99 if you play your cards in the right order..if you dont already have it.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Thunderclap said:


> When the Tivo Premiere was announced I was onboard for upgrading my TivoHD. But then I started reading all the negative reviews and finally canceled my order. Since then I've patiently been waiting for Tivo to upgrade the Premiere software. It now seems that with the release of 20.2 the Premiere is in a much more usable state.
> 
> So from those who have 20.2 running, do you feel that upgrading from TivoHD is now worthwhile? I understand there are still some bugs in 20.2: are any a deal breaker you think? Does the Premiere still crash? Any UI bugs that are intolerable? I'm looking for any opinions as if I upgrade I will be doing so with a lifetime subscription, so I want to be damn sure the Premiere is behaving as it should.
> 
> I appreciate any thoughts and opinions you may have.


Only you can really answer the question. Everyone will have different expectations, needs, requirements, etc. Personally, even with the improvements, I still find the HDUI sluggish and frustrating. Of course, you are not forced to use it- the SDUI is still there, and it is faster than on the TiVo HD. And you get the benefit of much faster network transfer, too. So you are losing nothing by upgrading, and have the option to gain features. My unit is and has been pretty stable.

The 14.9 & 20.2 updates go a long way to proving that TiVo is finally making real changes and seems to be committed to updating the product. This is big news. Based on what had happened (or not happened) over the past year (really almost two years), many people (myself included) got the feeling that TiVo had no serious interest in fixing and improving the series 4 (Premiere*). The release of the Premiere Elite, with almost identical hardware, and running the same OS/UI, is further proof that TiVo intends to stand behind the series 4.

So, I don't think you have anything to lose. And the Spring update that is coming sounds very exciting (more features, faster HDUI).


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Thunderclap said:


> When the Tivo Premiere was announced I was onboard for upgrading my TivoHD. But then I started reading all the negative reviews and finally canceled my order. Since then I've patiently been waiting for Tivo to upgrade the Premiere software. It now seems that with the release of 20.2 the Premiere is in a much more usable state.
> 
> So from those who have 20.2 running, do you feel that upgrading from TivoHD is now worthwhile? I understand there are still some bugs in 20.2: are any a deal breaker you think? Does the Premiere still crash? Any UI bugs that are intolerable? I'm looking for any opinions as if I upgrade I will be doing so with a lifetime subscription, so I want to be damn sure the Premiere is behaving as it should.
> 
> I appreciate any thoughts and opinions you may have.


I'm OTA only and still use the SDUI. For me the Premiere was a great upgrade from the TiVo HD (even a year ago) because _in my particular situation_ the Premiere solves a couple of serious reception problems. If you use cable, I think your biggest decision would be whether you want to go with a (regular) Premiere or an Elite. The new 20.2 software is good enough that I don't think you're taking a big risk by upgrading now. TiVo could still step in something on their way to ironing out the remaining bugs, but it's starting to look like a finished product, in the SDUI I'm using and (from reports here) even in the HDUI.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

The things I primarily use on my TivoHD is the DVR functionality (obviously), Amazon Instant Video, connecting to PyTivo, and the occasional YouTube video. I would like to start using the HDUI and Netflix if the software is improved (its terrible on my TivoHD so I ended up buying a Roku). The response time for Amazon and YouTube are fairly slow with the TivoHD so if the Premiere is faster then that it might be worthwhile.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I'm not on the 20.2 yet, but I would not have even considered going the Premiere route if they had not released the four tuner elite and cracked the door on the possibility of eventually getting something like a TiVo Preview that will allow me to deliver my TiVo programs to more screens in the home.

TiVo making a real effort to show off next gen interface changes, iPad streaming apps, etc, at CES also helped to push me over the edge into going with an Elite.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Thunderclap said:


> The things I primarily use on my TivoHD is the DVR functionality (obviously), Amazon Instant Video, connecting to PyTivo, and the occasional YouTube video. I would like to start using the HDUI and Netflix if the software is improved (its terrible on my TivoHD so I ended up buying a Roku). The response time for Amazon and YouTube are fairly slow with the TivoHD so if the Premiere is faster then that it might be worthwhile.


Your DVR functionality can remain the same, just a bit faster, under SDUI. Or it can be improved in functionality but not speed by using the HDUI. Either way, you gain a lot more storage space.

Your PyTiVo experience will be much improved due to the MUCH faster network speed in the Premiere.

Your Netflix/Amazon experience will remain similar to the series 3... for now. The supposed new Netflix app is released in the Spring at which time I expect it can only get better. I am not sure that will be backported to the series 3 (it is fairly unlikely).


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

crxssi said:


> The supposed new Netflix app is released in the Spring at which time I expect it can only get better. I am not sure that will be backported to the series 3 (it is fairly unlikely).


Yeah... it seems Tivo has pretty much abandoned TivoHD updates at this point.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

Thunderclap said:


> The things I primarily use on my TivoHD is the DVR functionality (obviously), Amazon Instant Video, connecting to PyTivo, and the occasional YouTube video. I would like to start using the HDUI and Netflix if the software is improved (its terrible on my TivoHD so I ended up buying a Roku). The response time for Amazon and YouTube are fairly slow with the TivoHD so if the Premiere is faster then that it might be worthwhile.


If Netflix is important to you, a new UI for that isn't coming until spring. Frankly for internet video I would suggest you look at a Roku 2. It supports Amazon Prime, if you subscribe, which there is no timeline for that on the Premiere. I have a Roku and prefer it to the Tivo HDs interface and like that I can view the free Amazon Prime content.

I had been an Amazon Prime subscriber for the free second day shipping from not long after they started offering it, so that content is essentially free, in my view. The Roku is a streamer and if you don't have a high quality internet connection, it may not work as well as downloading Amazon content to your Tivo HD. While some channels supported by the Roku have subscription fees, the Roku itself does not.


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## joe1515 (Jul 21, 2009)

How stable is 20.2? I have a tivo series 3 THX which is on its way out and I will probably need to replace in the next few months if not sooner.

My main concern is how stable is the premier with 20.2 recording season passes and shows? Are there major problems with shows being missed do to re-boots and incorrect guide information? I have a ROKU 2 XS so I am not concerned about the video on demand features.

Thanks,
Joe


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## mr_smits (Dec 17, 2009)

Yes, to me the experience is now worth it.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

joe1515 said:


> How stable is 20.2?


I never had much stability problems on my Premiere, ever, except for the "stops responding to remote" bug that appeared early last year after an update. And that appears to have gone away with 14.9 and stayed away with 20.2. (Unless you count my first Premiere that totally failed at 90 days and was replaced under warranty... but that has nothing to do with software).



> I have a tivo series 3 THX which is on its way out and I will probably need to replace in the next few months if not sooner.


You *could* replace the hard drive. But if you can get a deal to transfer lifetime, that might be an even better option.



> My main concern is how stable is the premier with 20.2 recording season passes and shows? Are there major problems with shows being missed do to re-boots and incorrect guide information?


For me? I can't remember my TiVo Premiere ever rebooting on its own. (Of course, you don't count OS updates, which require a reboot; and I have rebooted it myself to clear the "stops responding to remote" bug, but even with the bug, it kept right on recording). It has never lost a program or failed to record something. I have never had an guide data error any worse than on my series 3.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

Well, Premiere with Lifetime Subscription for upgrading my TivoHD is looking more and more tempting. $99 for the Premiere, and $399 for the Lifetime Subscription. Wonder how long that deal will last?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

I have a Premiere with the 20.2 software, a TiVo HD, and an original Series 3 HD. They are all lifetimed and used for OTA. On my Premiere I still find the SDUI superior to the HDUI, however I do like the new Guide Options in the HDUI. 

My Premiere is superior to my other 2 TiVos in almost every way however the 2 Series 3 units do get marginally better OTA reception. 

I would not spend $500 to replace either of my Series 3 units with a Premiere unless they died and were not easily repairable. 

But has others have said most of the reasons to upgrade or not upgrade are fairly personal and it really only matters what you want and value. 

Good Luck,


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

Here is another question: how is Hulu+ on now? I read a review on Engadget from May 2011 where they trashed the experience. Has it improved at all since then?


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

Thunderclap said:


> Here is another question: how is Hulu+ on now? I read a review on Engadget from May 2011 where they trashed the experience. Has it improved at all since then?


I never found Hulu+ that bad on the Tivo compared to any other devices that have Hulu+. The Hulu UI is the same on all devices so you can't knock Tivo specifically for that.
The only difference I've seen with Hulu+ on the Tivo is that the "pause"/delay after a commercial before the video restarts is noticeable longer than on my Roku.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

gtrogue said:


> I never found Hulu+ that bad on the Tivo compared to any other devices that have Hulu+. The Hulu UI is the same on all devices so you can't knock Tivo specifically for that.
> The only difference I've seen with Hulu+ on the Tivo is that the "pause"/delay after a commercial before the video restarts is noticeable longer than on my Roku.


It's definately slower than most other Hulu clients which isn't saying much since they are all slow except the Xbox version. And they have never made any noticeable updates since launch. It still uses some old elements that clients like Roku have had updated long ago and still isn't overscan ready.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

gtrogue said:


> I never found Hulu+ that bad on the Tivo compared to any other devices that have Hulu+. The Hulu UI is the same on all devices so you can't knock Tivo specifically for that.
> The only difference I've seen with Hulu+ on the Tivo is that the "pause"/delay after a commercial before the video restarts is noticeable longer than on my Roku.





rainwater said:


> It's definately slower than most other Hulu clients which isn't saying much since they are all slow except the Xbox version. And they have never made any noticeable updates since launch. It still uses some old elements that clients like Roku have had updated long ago and still isn't overscan ready.


Thanks for the info. I actually was thinking of using it as On Demand if I decided to get the Premiere, but I just read Comcast (my provider) should be coming to the Premiere this year so that makes Hulu+ unnecessary for me.


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## aaroncgi (Apr 13, 2010)

crxssi said:


> ... It has never lost a program or failed to record something. I have never had an guide data error any worse than on my series 3.


For us, our premiere had bad guide data and therefore failed to record a show, a couple days after it updated to 20.2. It was supposed to record The Simpsons at 8:00PM on Sunday. The guide said it was on at 7:30 and 8:00 - the exact same (new) show. However, the show at 7:30 was not The Simpsons. I forget what it was, American Dad or Family Guy or something similar. So as soon as we saw it was recording the wrong show, we stopped that recording, thinking it would then start recording The Simpsons at 8:00. Nope. It did not record, with the error saying that the show was already recorded previously and cancelled. We have it set to record new episodes only, because duh, it's The Simpsons and is on like eight times per day even with OTA only!

So that's a bummer, can't recall ever having bad guide data before. This particular problem could have been solved if there was an option in the delete/cancel menu saying 'Bad Guide Data', record next showing, or something like that. Really the season pass should record ALL shows that are not marked as reruns, even if it thinks it already got it.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Thunderclap said:


> Thanks for the info. I actually was thinking of using it as On Demand if I decided to get the Premiere, but I just read Comcast (my provider) should be coming to the Premiere this year so that makes Hulu+ unnecessary for me.


Much better option (if they have what you need). I can't imagine why ANYONE would *PAY* to be *FORCED* to watch commercials. It is just plain ridiculous to me.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

crxssi said:


> Much better option (if they have what you need). I can't imagine why ANYONE would *PAY* to be *FORCED* to watch commercials. It is just plain ridiculous to me.


Well, it's either pay to watch commercials in HD or be a "pirate" and use BitTorrent. I'm trying to be honest.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

crxssi said:


> Only you can really answer the question. Everyone will have different expectations, needs, requirements, etc. Personally, even with the improvements, I still find the HDUI sluggish and frustrating. Of course, you are not forced to use it- the SDUI is still there, and it is faster than on the TiVo HD. And you get the benefit of much faster network transfer, too. So you are losing nothing by upgrading, and have the option to gain features. My unit is and has been pretty stable.
> 
> The 14.9 & 20.2 updates go a long way to proving that TiVo is finally making real changes and seems to be committed to updating the product. This is big news. Based on what had happened (or not happened) over the past year (really almost two years), many people (myself included) got the feeling that TiVo had no serious interest in fixing and improving the series 4 (Premiere*). The release of the Premiere Elite, with almost identical hardware, and running the same OS/UI, is further proof that TiVo intends to stand behind the series 4.
> 
> So, I don't think you have anything to lose. And the Spring update that is coming sounds very exciting (more features, faster HDUI).


Sadly I can't help but thinking that we wouldn't be getting any of these improvements if it wasnt for the directv deal. Streaming should have been already implemented when my premiere units were purchased.


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## steve771 (Dec 30, 2011)

Thunderclap said:


> Well, Premiere with Lifetime Subscription for upgrading my TivoHD is looking more and more tempting. $99 for the Premiere, and $399 for the Lifetime Subscription. Wonder how long that deal will last?


You realize those prices are standard, right? Standard $99 for the Premiere, and standard $399 for lifetime, as long as you keep service on one other Tivo. The lifetime is at a discount for multi box customers.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

steve771 said:


> You realize those prices are standard, right? Standard $99 for the Premiere, and standard $399 for lifetime, as long as you keep service on one other Tivo. The lifetime is at a discount for multi box customers.


So if I discontinue using my TivoHD it will be $499?


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

Yes. I bought in pretty early, and initially, was disappointed.

BUT, even early on, the MRV was far superior to my old Tivo HD. I could actually expand the hard disk to 2 TB (which I don't think can be done with a Tivo HD), and the interface showed promise. I didn't have many reboots, so it was working for me, although the HDUI interface was slower, and at first, that bugged me.

With 20.2, not only do you have MRV, you have MRS, and it works just fine. The Guide is significantly improved, and our Premiere's both have 2 TB disks with lifetime, so all in all, I say Yes, with 20.2, the Premiere is a significant improvement over the HD, and really worth it. The HDUI is still not fully finished, and it's still slower than the SDUI, but I like it, so I've adapted, and it's fine, really.

I wish Tivo would finish the HDUI and activate the second core so that things would speed up some, plus more DLNA support, but even if that stuff never showed up (which Tivo is hinting, strongly, that they will address at least some of these issues), especially with 20.2, it really is a better DVR than the HD. Significantly better, actually.

Added: So, I just read somewhere that Tivo claims they have enabled the second core. Hmm. I see marginal improvements in the HDUI, but nothing spectacular. MRS works great, and it's really fast, so I wonder if the second core is used for it? Some of the other folks here who are more deep into the Tivo's innerds might know.....if it is true that they have finally enabled the second core, I hope Tivo can leverage it much more in the future to speed up the HDUI....so you can see, I still think the HDUI could stand to be improved, and I'm betting most other Premiere users, which they recognize the improvements that 20.2 added, also still believe the HDUI's speed and responsiveness still needs work. I hope we do see speed improvements there. It's not bad, but I think it could be better, so I'm hoping the second core enabling can help with that.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

mm2margaret said:


> I wish Tivo would finish the HDUI and activate the second core so that things would speed up some


The second core was activated back in 14.9. As many have said (including me) over and over (for a very long time), having a second core will not result in much speed improvement in the HDUI until they optimize and/or redesign elements of it, significantly. We are hoping some of THOSE changes will appear in the Spring update. Keep your fingers crossed.



> plus more DLNA support


That is badly needed too. Along with Amazon Prime.


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

Where can I details on what will be in the spring update?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

plazman30 said:


> Where can I details on what will be in the spring update?


Well, nobody knows what will be in it for sure. There are just sprinklings of information scattered in different threads. Margret has teased us some 

Most are speculating that more features from the Virgin Media version of TiVo will be integrated

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=480221&highlight=virgin
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=479190&highlight=virgin


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

I'll add my two cents into this conversation. I've owned my two Premieres for over a year and a half and this is the first update that I've ever stuck with the HD version of the menus. I actually like this update and the speed is very tolerable. It's somewhat slower than the SDUI but not by much and I've found it to be stable and likable enough to say that it's the best Tivo software update that I've ever seen.

We finally have a Tivo software upgrade that's worthy of bragging about and also a supporter from Tivo that also seemed to feel that way that she took priority upgrades without fear of further alienating their customers.

It's a great step forward for Tivo.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

Thunderclap said:


> So if I discontinue using my TivoHD it will be $499?


My understanding is you just need to have it on your service when you activate the new one. Once you have bought it, you can cancel the old one. You probably want to use the web season pass manager on Tivos website to transfer your season passes over, anyway.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

donnoh said:


> this is the first update that I've ever stuck with the HD version of the menus.


Me too. I usually can only tolerate it for a day or so, and then give up and go right back to the SDUI. Other than testing the SDUI, I have stayed in the HDUI for 9 days... which, for me, is unheard of...



> I actually like this update and the speed is very tolerable. It's somewhat slower than the SDUI but not by much


*I* wouldn't go that far! To me, it is "barely" or "just" tolerable, not "very" tolerable; and I still think in many ways it is much slower than the SDUI and has a ways to go, still. But, believe it or not, what I just said is high praise, coming from me 



> and I've found it to be stable and likable enough to say that it's the best Tivo software update that I've ever seen.


Absolutely.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

danjw1 said:


> My understanding is you just need to have it on your service when you activate the new one. Once you have bought it, you can cancel the old one. You probably want to use the web season pass manager on Tivos website to transfer your season passes over, anyway.


I actually talked to Tivo about this today and you confirm what they told me. As long as I order prior to canceling my TivoHD I will get it at $399. Not a bad deal.


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

crxssi said:


> Me too. I usually can only tolerate it for a day or so, and then give up and go right back to the SDUI. Other than testing the SDUI, I have stayed in the HDUI for 9 days... which, for me, is unheard of...
> 
> *I* wouldn't go that far! To me, it is "barely" or "just" tolerable, not "very" tolerable; and I still think in many ways it is much slower than the SDUI and has a ways to go, still. But, believe it or not, what I just said is high praise, coming from me
> 
> Absolutely.


Seeing how you are one of the more vocal critics of the Premiere, it's nice to see that you agree that Tivo has actually made some strides in fixing their past mistakes.

I myself am glad that Tivo actually nailed an update other than create more problems than they had before.

Margret may be one of the more instrumental figures that leads to their resurrection.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

aaroncgi said:


> So that's a bummer, can't recall ever having bad guide data before. This particular problem could have been solved if there was an option in the delete/cancel menu saying 'Bad Guide Data', record next showing, or something like that. Really the season pass should record ALL shows that are not marked as reruns, even if it thinks it already got it.


Umm, that would mean there would have to be some kind of weird combination of 'first run only' and 'all (including duplicates)'.


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## knightl (Mar 15, 2006)

I have been a TiVo user since the box first launched and in all those years have had nothing but a great experience. That being said, I have been "parked" with my two series 3 boxes since that generation came out. I was disappointed in the HD models and the introduction of the Premier model made me even more nervous about leaving the solid series 3 platform. I now must say with the Elite and 20.2 I am back considering upgrading my units. (I just have to convince myself I can live without the LED display on the front showing the name of the programs being recorded.  ) Just my 2 cents...


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

crxssi said:


> Me too. I usually can only tolerate it for a day or so, and then give up and go right back to the SDUI. Other than testing the SDUI, I have stayed in the HDUI for 9 days... which, for me, is unheard of...


Same here. While there are a couple of things in the HDUI I'm not crazy about, I find myself sticking with it.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

Well I'm sold. As soon as I get paid next week I will be ordering a Tivo Premiere with Lifetime Subscription. I will also be upgrading the hard drive to 2TB so that I don't have to delete my sons favorite cartoons (Little Einsteins, Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Super Why, etc.) I will then be discontinuing using my Tivo HD (no need for it) but I'm hoping I get the special $99 lifetime subscription offer I've seen some people mention. If so I need to decide if I want to gift it to my dad or sell it to offset the price of the Premiere. Oh decisions.

I have to say I'm surprised its taken this long for Tivo to get Premiere updated to what many people have said should have been the initial release. How many people work at Tivo programming and designing this stuff? It seems to me if they structured their departments better they might be able to roll out these updates faster. HDUI, apps (Amazon, Netflix, etc.), etc. A small team working on these various things simultaneously might help expedite this stuff. Just a thought.

Anyway, I'm very excited about this. Hopefully the decision is a good one, especially once Comcast On Demand becomes available. Hopefully we'll get it sooner rather than later here in Chicago.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

From what I understand 20.2 is simply the first "tolerable" release in that it has an HD guide, etc.

TiVo software still has a long long way to go to satisfy critics, such as updating many of the applications and internal screens to HD that are still in SD, releasing an affordable streaming option for other rooms in the home (TiVo Preview), etc.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

jmpage2 said:


> TiVo software still has a long long way to go to satisfy critics, such as *updating many of the applications* and internal screens to HD that are still in SD, releasing an affordable streaming option for other rooms in the home (TiVo Preview), etc.


I assumed Tivo was responsible for applications such as Amazon, YouTube, Netflix, etc. but in another post I saw elsewhere it looks like its the responsibility of those site owners. So who is responsible for for Tivo apps?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I think only TiVo truly has the answer.

Hopefully the move to Adobe Air will at least make development and deployment of 3rd party apps a smoother process. It should also open the door to on demand services from more cable providers.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

I would love to see a Tivo App store at some point. As controlling as Apple is with their App Store there is something to be said about a concise experience on iProducts. Tivo approves apps that are listed, but its up to the developers to adhere to certain rules Tivo outlines: must be in HD, must have the Tivo UI, etc. That way its in the developers court to produce a good user experience. Tivo could then just have a small group to assist developers in making their app the best they can, and the rest of their staff could focus on the Tivo software.


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## Sam Lowry (Oct 17, 2002)

Though I am far from happy about how ridiculously long it's taking to finish the HD menus - I still can't figure why this wasn't the first thing done, I also agree that this update is a big step for improvements. My personal favorite is the much better customization of the "Discovery Bar". I hated that bar, but now I can easily accept its presence. When you turn off all items- it shows you other things that are currently on TV at that moment - very nice.

I'm also waiting for Amazon Prime.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Thunderclap said:


> Well I'm sold. As soon as I get paid next week I will be ordering a Tivo Premiere with Lifetime Subscription. I will also be upgrading the hard drive to 2TB so that I don't have to delete my sons favorite cartoons (Little Einsteins, Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Super Why, etc.) I will then be discontinuing using my Tivo HD (no need for it) but I'm hoping I get the special $99 lifetime subscription offer I've seen some people mention. If so I need to decide if I want to gift it to my dad or sell it to offset the price of the Premiere. Oh decisions.


Please note that if you had lifetime service on the HD and transfer it (with fee) to the Premiere, it will remove it from your TiVo HD, and it will have little value anymore. You might already know this, but just wanted to make sure.

I don't think there has EVER been new lifetime for $99 for a new box ... nowhere even close to that. You might be thinking of a service transfer?


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

crxssi said:


> Please note that if you had lifetime service on the HD and transfer it (with fee) to the Premiere, it will remove it from your TiVo HD, and it will have little value anymore. You might already know this, but just wanted to make sure.
> 
> I don't think there has EVER been new lifetime for $99 for a new box ... nowhere even close to that. You might be thinking of a service transfer?


I don't have lifetime with my HD; I'm paying $12.95 a month. And I've read in another thread that when someone called to cancel their HD service that they were offered a lifetime subscription on that unit for $99. That's what I was referring to.


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

I've been a TiVo owner forever. I never had more then one at any given time though. 

I stuck with my series 3 up till now. 

When the premieres were launched, I was interested (wallet ready) until I realized what it was. Tivo overhyped it, and delivered a subpar product. Fans were hugely disappointed.

The 20.2 update TO ME is a game changer. TiVo not only delivered much needed features (HDUI advancement, streaming, among others), but also have shown they are committed to the platform and are actively moving it forward. 

I bought two XLs with lifetime. Streaming from family room to bedroom is going to rock. 

I still don't have 20.2 yet (14.9 currently), But will have it soon enough. The promise is what sold me.

Bravo TiVo!
Keep the momentum going!


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm an Apple device junky (as many of you are). Using my iPad or iPhone to manage recordings across the two priemeres is frankly amazing. iMO It makes-up for the HDUI shortcomings (remember, I currently have 14.9).


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## Jets (Sep 28, 2010)

I called Amazon once to find out why videos that are free through my pc, are not on the Tivo premiere. During my conversation we discussed how lame the Tivo Amazon app is. THe Amazon rep claims that that is because of Tivo. Tivo decides how much functionality they want to provide. At least thats an Amazon reps side of the story.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

knightl said:


> I have been a TiVo user since the box first launched and in all those years have had nothing but a great experience. That being said, I have been "parked" with my two series 3 boxes since that generation came out. I was disappointed in the HD models and the introduction of the Premier model made me even more nervous about leaving the solid series 3 platform. I now must say with the Elite and 20.2 I am back considering upgrading my units. (I just have to convince myself I can live without the LED display on the front showing the name of the programs being recorded.  ) Just my 2 cents...


You will quickly forget about it. That was one of my concerns. When I got my launch Premieres I had three of the S3 OLED boxes. Now I couldn't imagine going back to them. My GF has two of my old S3 boxes and I don't like using them with their SDUI.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

knightl said:


> I have been a TiVo user since the box first launched and in all those years have had nothing but a great experience. That being said, I have been "parked" with my two series 3 boxes since that generation came out. I was disappointed in the HD models and the introduction of the Premier model made me even more nervous about leaving the solid series 3 platform. I now must say with the Elite and 20.2 I am back considering upgrading my units. (I just have to convince myself I can live without the LED display on the front showing the name of the programs being recorded.  ) Just my 2 cents...


I would hold out. Like you, I was disappointed in the HD models even though I have 2. I bought an Elite in October, and was initially very very happy with it with the exception of the Amazon HD issues. It was quite fast, and seemed solid - though I prefer the SDUI. Since then, over the past 10 days it has become junk. Unreliable, spontaneous reboots, sluggish, doesn't respond to remote commands, etc. I have not gotten 20.2 yet.

About a month ago I wrote that I would recommend the Elite at that time based on my experiences. Since then, I have to change my position. Based on the incredibly poor and unreliable performance of my Elite (which is IMHO massively overpriced for what it is) I would no longer in any circumstance recommend purchasing any Premiere Tivo. I sincerely wish I had not bought mine and were I able to return it for a refund, I would without a shadow of a doubt do so. My final experience with Tivo support tonight convinced me of the futility. My Elite is now simply an extra recording device that I no longer watch any content from. Instead, I copy content to one of my other Tivos.


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

knightl said:


> (I just have to convince myself I can live without the LED display on the front showing the name of the programs being recorded.  ) Just my 2 cents...


A nice feature indeed, but you'll get over losing it.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

Tivo Premiere ordered with Lifetime Subscription, as well as a 2TB drive to replace the standard one. Should be up and running next week some time!


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

I sure hope you have better luck. Mine is now a doorstop.


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## rn701 (May 18, 2007)

I am wondering the same thing as the original poster. I was all excited about the Premier when it launched, but hearing about all the reboots and remotes locking up etc. I decided to wait. I kept my S3 for DVRing from cable and got a Roku for Amazon VOD (had to pretty much give up trying to download and watch Amazon VOD on the S3.)

Just checked back in and I see there have been a couple of software updates, no complaints about remotes locking up (was that fixed) and that after two years they almost but not quite have a functioning HDUI. But now there are new reports of reboots and problems with Amazon VOD, etc. And still no DLNA. 

Seriously? 

What have they been doing? At least someone named "Margaret" appears to be actually communicating with users on Twitter.

Is Tivo a hardware company or a software company, both, or neither?

Their stock isn't doing all that great, and a lot (most?) of their revenues appear to be from lawsuit settlements and I read they are losing subscribers (nearly half?) and facing threats from google, apple and tv makers. Does this cause anyone else concerns about paying for lifetime service?

Anyway, for you brave souls beta testing the Premier for them, is it time to upgrade or should I stick with my S3 as long as it still works?


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

I will be getting my Premiere tomorrow so depending on my work day I will have it up and running within a day or two. I'll report back with my impressions.


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## dsnotgood (Aug 26, 2010)

rn701 said:


> I am wondering the same thing as the original poster. I was all excited about the Premier when it launched, but hearing about all the reboots and remotes locking up etc. I decided to wait. I kept my S3 for DVRing from cable and got a Roku for Amazon VOD (had to pretty much give up trying to download and watch Amazon VOD on the S3.)
> 
> Just checked back in and I see there have been a couple of software updates, no complaints about remotes locking up (was that fixed) and that after two years they almost but not quite have a functioning HDUI. But now there are new reports of reboots and problems with Amazon VOD, etc. And still no DLNA.
> 
> ...


I have had zero problems with 2 premieres . Most issues are a little overblown or happen to a vocal minority . Check amazon for reviews and you see a lot of 5 stars and a good amount of 1 stars due to either improper installation by cable companies, wireless internet issues (Tons of lag in hd menus) .


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

dsnotgood said:


> I have had zero problems with 2 premieres . Most issues are a little overblown or happen to a vocal minority . Check amazon for reviews and you see a lot of 5 stars and a good amount of 1 stars due to either improper installation by cable companies, wireless internet issues (Tons of lag in hd menus) .


Yup - I was cautious on mine, but so far it's worked flawlessly. I just forced a daily call and it took a long time to download (a good five minutes) so I'd say I'm getting 20.2 as we speak 

It will be interesting to see what it looks like. If it is as good as many are reporting, I'll probably cancel my HD and pick up another premier in a couple of months. Same thing with the S3...


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

I got my Premiere last night. I swapped out the drive with a 2TB and hooked it up. Still has the software v of 14.x, but I forced an update and there was one that took a looooong time to download. This may have been because I was also transferring all saved content from my Tivo HD. I had approx. probably 60-75 HD programs saved (a lot for my kids), so I figured I'd start it before bed and it would be done by the time I got up this morning. Heh. Nope. Eight hours later and maybe half had transferred. I also checked the software version and it still said 14.x, so I'm not sure if I did get the update and its not registering because the Tivo hasn't been restarted, or because it didn't get the 20.x update. I should know tonight.

I also have to move the M-card over, and I hope that is a painless process. I'd rather not have to deal with Comcast.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Thunderclap said:


> I also checked the software version and it still said 14.x, so I'm not sure if I did get the update and its not registering because the Tivo hasn't been restarted, or because it didn't get the 20.x update. I should know tonight.


You can always check the screen where you manually try to force a call- if it says "pending restart", then it is waiting to reboot at 2am. or whatever, to start the install of a downloaded update.



> I also have to move the M-card over, and I hope that is a painless process. I'd rather not have to deal with Comcast.


I learned the hard way- it might APPEAR to work by just moving it, but it is likely to lock you out of certain channels or cause other problems. The ID of the TiVo and the ID of the cable card have to match what the cable company has on record (it is a security thing, which is what cable cards are all about). You will at least have to call Comcast and have them re-pair the card, which does NOT requiring someone coming to your house (despite the fact that it seems like the majority of customer service reps think it does).


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

Migration to TiVo Premiere is done. Overall, it was painless. A few things to note on my expierience: copying my season passes from one TiVo to the other via the TiVo website, while it worked, rearranged all my shows. Because of this I had to manually change it back to its original order. It would have been nice if it preserved the original order, but if that isn't doable I would have liked to be able to change the numerical order by typing in its position (i.e. 1, 2, 3, etc.) and doing a final submit after. Dragging and dropping and waiting for the show position to update takes too much time.

It would also be nice if transferring shows from one TiVo to the other was faster. The drive in my TiVo HD was a 320GB and had about 75 shows saved. To transfer these shows took approx 27 hours, far too long.

I did end up having to call Comcast, but they were quick to update my account and the channels came through in under a minute once they were done on their end.

I am also updated to 20.5 and I do see the sluggishness people are talking about. However, it's not so bad it's unusable and I welcome the HD menus. Once they get the response time up as well as the rest of the HD menus implemented I think it will be a truly enjoyable experience.

So, the little time I've spent with the TiVo Premiere, I'm happy with it. It's also nice to be on a lifetime subscription so I don't have to worry about monthly payments anymore. Hurray for that.

Finally, and this is based on other threads here and not my experience as of yet, getting Netflix updated to how it is on other devices, the Amazon VOD pixelation issue, Amazon Prime implementation (crossing my fingers here) and Comcast On Demand will make TiVo a truly amazing box. I hope they can pull it off.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Thunderclap said:


> Migration to TiVo Premiere is done. Overall, it was painless. A few things to note on my experience:* copying my season passes from one TiVo to the other via the TiVo website, *while it worked, rearranged all my shows. Because of this I had to manually change it back to its original order. It would have been nice if it preserved the original order, but if that isn't doable I would have liked to be able to change the numerical order by typing in its position (i.e. 1, 2, 3, etc.) and doing a final submit after. Dragging and dropping and waiting for the show position to update takes too much time.


One caveat: Season Passes that are transferred via the TiVo.com website often* do not work*. I xfr'ed about 70 SPs from an S3 to my Elite, and found that well over half of them did not work. They simply did not record new eps. They were in the Upcoming Episodes list, but no recording set. I had to delete the SP, and manually recreate it, to get them to work (at which point they worked flawlessly).

It's not just me. There are a couple threads about this bug. There seems to be no rhyme nor reason as to why this happens, or which SPs work and don't work.

Just a heads up!


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

I also had problems with the online Season Pass manager. I swapped my season passes between my TiVoHD and Premiere (just like I swapped the rooms the units were in). The season passes ended up with different channel settings and preferences for "new" versus "reruns" - I ended up re-creating them on the TiVo units to fix those problems.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

astrohip said:


> One caveat: Season Passes that are transferred via the TiVo.com website often* do not work*. I xfr'ed about 70 SPs from an S3 to my Elite, and found that well over half of them did not work. They simply did not record new eps. They were in the Upcoming Episodes list, but no recording set. I had to delete the SP, and manually recreate it, to get them to work (at which point they worked flawlessly).
> 
> It's not just me. There are a couple threads about this bug. There seems to be no rhyme nor reason as to why this happens, or which SPs work and don't work.
> 
> Just a heads up!


Thanks for the info. That explains why Daily Show didn't record last night. I'll have I monitor it and see what happens.


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## Keen (Aug 3, 2009)

mm2margaret said:


> Yes. I bought in pretty early, and initially, was disappointed.
> 
> BUT, even early on, the MRV was far superior to my old Tivo HD. I could actually expand the hard disk to 2 TB (which I don't think can be done with a Tivo HD)


Sometime last year someone figured out how to expand the Tivo HD's disk to 2TB. I did the upgrade on mine a while back.

Based on this thread, I guess I'll keep my eyes out for a good deal on an Elite. Having 4 tuners plus a non-slow HD GUI is what I've been waiting for.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Thunderclap said:


> It would also be nice if transferring shows from one TiVo to the other was faster. The drive in my TiVo HD was a 320GB and had about 75 shows saved. To transfer these shows took approx 27 hours, far too long.


That is more the fault of your HD. The HD has a MUCH slower network interface than the Premiere.



> I am also updated to 20.5 and I do see the sluggishness people are talking about. However, it's not so bad it's unusable and I welcome the HD menus. Once they get the response time up as well as the rest of the HD menus implemented I think it will be a truly enjoyable experience.


If you think it is sluggish NOW, you should have tried using it BEFORE the last several updates!!!

Congrats on your acquisition and smooth install!


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