# TiVo Premiere MRS Choppy



## Cure (Jan 3, 2003)

How is everyone doing with this? I've been trying to watch the Australian Open in different rooms but MRS just doesn't work. It stutters and stops like you're watching something with an incredibly low frame rate. I don't think it's my network; one TiVo is hardwired with Ethernet and the other one is wireless.

Any thoughts?


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## tomm1079 (May 10, 2005)

everything i read says you should have both hardwired. I have my tivos setup with powerline adaptors and have no issues.


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## xberk (Dec 3, 2011)

Cure said:


> How is everyone doing with this? I've been trying to watch the Australian Open in different rooms but MRS just doesn't work. It stutters and stops like you're watching something with an incredibly low frame rate. I don't think it's my network; one TiVo is hardwired with Ethernet and the other one is wireless.
> 
> Any thoughts?


If you have coax running in the house, go with a MOCA network. Some users are running successfully on wireless but some NOT. I believe everyone on MOCA is reporting solid MRV/MRS results on Premiere boxes running under 20.2. MRS is between TIVOs, so I'd say the wireless part of that connection is the problem.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

If it's truly related to Wifi, then there is a problem with how MRS is streaming. 802.x (take your pick, .11b, n, etc) while not full duplex is far more than sufficient to handle the bitrate of HD streaming content. Assuming of course that the Wifi connection on the 2nd box is a good connection with low latency (it's really a latency and not a bandwidth issue) and assuming there is not some sort of external interference, Wifi should have no negative effect whatsoever. Now, as we all know, the Tivo network interfaces seem to have performance throttles on them somehow (at the Tivo device/sw level) that I don't fully understand (ie, Tivo HD to Tivo HD transfers horribly slow even on totally wired connections) so it may well be network related, but is more likely network in that the Tivo cannot effectively use available network resources. Or, like other issues, it has nothing to do with it and is solely Tivo SW related.

Anyway, since MRS is only between Premieres and cannot be done from a Premiere to/from an S3 or HD, probably there is relatively little knowledge yet.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

No issues here with wireless N


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

BTW, let me be more clear. The various Wifi standards have massivly more capability than required to stream HD content. Basic 802.11b can handle multiple simultaneous HD streams with zero issues - with no compression. It is routinely done on millions of other devices. Encrypted realtime HD streaming audio/video is routinely moved via Wifi for security systems, corporate services, etc. If in fact Wifi is involved in this issue it is NOT because Wifi as a medium is the problem, but that either the specific implementation (range, obstructions, external interference) or the TIVO implementation itself (Tivo SW, Tivo HW) are the problem. That's all I was trying to say.


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## xberk (Dec 3, 2011)

wmhjr said:


> ..... If in fact Wifi is involved in this issue it is NOT because Wifi as a medium is the problem, but that either the specific implementation (range, obstructions, external interference) or the TIVO implementation itself (Tivo SW, Tivo HW) are the problem. That's all I was trying to say.


Your point is well taken. No argument. Still for a HOME network, and given the normal HOME level of technical expertise in diagnosing and solving network issues .. If you have the coax already running and you have streaming issues .. -- MOCA is CLEARLY the way go for your Premieres. No problem using your WiFi router at the same time. My 2 cents.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

What do i need to do to enable streaming? I have an elite activated Wednesday and a plain premiere activated on Thursday. Both updated to 20.2 the same night activated yet I dont have any option to stream- just transfer...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> BTW, let me be more clear. The various Wifi standards have massivly more capability than required to stream HD content. Basic 802.11b can handle multiple simultaneous HD streams with zero issues - with no compression. It is routinely done on millions of other devices. Encrypted realtime HD streaming audio/video is routinely moved via Wifi for security systems, corporate services, etc. If in fact Wifi is involved in this issue it is NOT because Wifi as a medium is the problem, but that either the specific implementation (range, obstructions, external interference) or the TIVO implementation itself (Tivo SW, Tivo HW) are the problem. That's all I was trying to say.


Do you mean 802.11g?
802.11b is only 11Mb/s


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> 802.x (take your pick, .11b, n, etc) while not full duplex is far more than sufficient to handle the bitrate of HD streaming content.


This is wrong. B (theoretical max: 11 Mbps) is nowhere near adequate for an HD stream (up to 19.2 Mbps). G (theoretical 54 Mbps, realistically half that) is just barely good enough, _if_ you have a decent setup, which a lot of people don't (too much interference, not enough coverage).

It's possible you could recompress an HD stream to fit on B, but the TiVo isn't going to do that.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> What do i need to do to enable streaming? I have an elite activated Wednesday and a plain premiere activated on Thursday. Both updated to 20.2 the same night activated yet I dont have any option to stream- just transfer...


Try connecting them both to Tivo and then possibly a reboot.
If you don't see anything yet they still maybe throttling the rollout.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> This is wrong. B (theoretical max: 11 Mbps) is nowhere near adequate for an HD stream (up to 19.2 Mbps). G (theoretical 54 Mbps, realistically half that) is just barely good enough, _if_ you have a decent setup, which a lot of people don't (too much interference, not enough coverage).
> 
> It's possible you could recompress an HD stream to fit on B, but the TiVo isn't going to do that.


Sorry, but I respectfully disagree VERY strongly. There is a lot of wives tales and bad math out there concerning speeds. The real story is that for the most part, many homes have less than 802.11b speeds for the internet connection, so frankly, the weakest slowest link in terms of both latency and overall bandwidth is not Wifi. It's the connection. Most HD streams that I've measured of less than 11mb in actual consumption, but I will admit that perhaps that's not indicative of everything. I'm also basing this on MPEG4 and not on MPEG2. My understanding was that we were dealing with MPEG4 here, correct?

Truth is that it's kind of academic anyway, as most everything has progressed significantly beyond 802.11b and people are generally running a (rarely), n, or g.

The real answer here is that IF you are on an a, n, or g Wifi network, have strong signal strength and no external interference, even though you're duplex it is almost certain that your Wifi connection is not the choke point in your connection to the outside world. It certainly has more opportunities for interference or degraded performance than CAT5/5E/5 and frankly I used wired 100/1000 connections, but that's a different discussion altogether.

One other correction. It's also not true that for example, an .11a or g connection can max at 54, and is typically half that. The reality is that the theoretical performance is somewhere maxed out at 72, though I've sure never seen it, and effective performance can be anywhere from less than 15% and well above that.


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

Just another reason to go Ethernet, MoCA or POE. There are way too many issues that could effect wireless connections and associated bandwidth limitations.

I had 2 TivoHDs in the past (one hardwired and one wireless) and the transfer feature between the Tivo units never worked. Changed the one wireless to wired and transfers worked fine. Now I have 2 TP units and the MRS works perfectly over Ethernet.

I recently picked up a Roku box and spent the extra $20 or so to get the one with the included ethernet jack. When I eventually add a TV to my sons room, I will be using MoCA. 

If I could remove wireless from my entire home, I would. I hate it!


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

One thing you guys should scan on this board. There are a number of people here, on this forum, who reported FASTER transfers and performance via Wifi than they did with wired ethernet. Makes no sense, I know. But I recall reading it just last week as transfer speeds were being discussed, along with the ability to start watching immediately without buffering. There was no technical data such as measured bitrates, connection speeds, etc that I recall. Might be interesting for you guys to look at. 

BTW, Stringfellow - I can't imagine life without wireless. If you're having issues, you've got a design/implementation issue. My entire home is both wired and wireless, including a 24 port managed switch and multiple CAT5E connections to most rooms (yup, I'm a geek). Anyway, pretty much the only things I have that are NOT connected via wireless are my 3 Tivos and 2 of my print servers. I've been running wireless since 1999, at that time using Cabletron Roamabout 802.11B systems as a very early consumer adopter. I LOVE Wifi. The world seems to agree with me.

Again, sounds as though you've got some design or implementation issues. But as I said before, I also have wired that I use and do prefer for the Tivos - only because I want to reduce every possible variable as I seem to experience so many quality issues with Tivo to begin with.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> The real story is that for the most part, many homes have less than 802.11b speeds for the internet connection, so frankly, the weakest slowest link in terms of both latency and overall bandwidth is not Wifi.


We're talking about TiVo-to-TiVo streaming within a LAN here, so the Internet speed is irrelevant.



> _I'm also basing this on MPEG4 and not on MPEG2. My understanding was that we were dealing with MPEG4 here, correct?_


No, not correct. The TiVo records digital video exactly as delivered OTA or via the cable company, without reencoding it. So far, that's almost 100% MPEG-2. I think there are a few systems in initial MPEG-4 trials, and the TiVo may be ready for it, but it's not widely available. The vast majority of MPEG-4 on a TiVo is from Internet sources, and the vast majority of what's on TiVos is MPEG-2.



> _It's also not true that for example, an .11a or g connection can max at 54, and is typically half that. The reality is that the theoretical performance is somewhere maxed out at 72, though I've sure never seen it, and effective performance can be anywhere from less than 15% and well above that._


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#802.11g

Please, quit while you're behind.


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## StringFellow (Apr 17, 2005)

When I had my TiVoHD setup with wireless it was the older Wireless G adapter. Signal strength was usually in the mid 60s. Transfers would either timeout or never complete. Connections to TiVo service never had an issue though.

For me the convience of plugging in a cable and knowing it will work out weighs wireless. Adding distance, walls, and floors just complicates wireless to much. Also the brand of wirelss equipment (at least for me) makes a difference too.

Wireless has its place, but for me, the fewer wireless clients in the house the better.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Also should add, i had not issues transferring shows prior to MRS with Wireless G also. Upgraded to N just prior to MRS was enabled


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Most wireless connections have too many errors/dropped frames. Just log into your router and check the statistics which typically include error counts. If you are getting errors then that is not very well suited for high bandwidth streaming with little to no buffering. Back in my ReplayTV days (they supported streaming from day 1) 802.11b was not adequate even for SD streaming and 802.11g was barely adequate and only because ReplayTV buffered a good 5 seconds or so. Looks to me like TiVo implementation has almost no buffering since if you pull the network plug while streaming it stops almost right away from my testing. Wired is the way to go if you want proper MRS functionality. I'm using MoCA and use MRS every day now and it's been flawless for me.

Also, I have 802.11n on laptop with 100% signal strength and connection speed listed above 100Mbps (laptop a few feet router with 802.11n and no obstructions) but TTG downloads from Premieres to the laptop are still slower than wired ethernet for me which in "theory" should not be the case. If I want to maximize download speeds I turn off wireless and connect laptop ethernet to my router.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

wmhjr said:


> Sorry, but I respectfully disagree VERY strongly. There is a lot of wives tales and bad math out there concerning speeds. The real story is that for the most part, many homes have less than 802.11b speeds for the internet connection, so frankly, the weakest slowest link in terms of both latency and overall bandwidth is not Wifi. It's the connection. Most HD streams that I've measured of less than 11mb in actual consumption, but I will admit that perhaps that's not indicative of everything. I'm also basing this on MPEG4 and not on MPEG2. My understanding was that we were dealing with MPEG4 here, correct?
> 
> Truth is that it's kind of academic anyway, as most everything has progressed significantly beyond 802.11b and people are generally running a (rarely), n, or g.
> 
> ...


Wive's tales and superstition? While wi-fi performance, with a very good network and no potential sources of interference (cordless phones, neighbor wifi systems, metal obstructions in the home, etc, etc, etc) can squeeze out just enough performance to transfer HD, it is in no way shape or form anywhere near as reliable as any kind of wired network would be.

Seriously, suggesting otherwise makes you look foolish.

Even a very good, enterprise grade wireless system will have collisions and dropped packets on a far larger scale than you will ever see in a wired network.

Additionally, even a near "perfect" wireless-N network has barely enough real world performance to stream blu-ray HD, generally speaking it fails miserably at this.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

For the naysayers here......

First of all, sorry, I was mistakenly not just focusing on Tivo to Tivo inhouse MRS. In THAT particular scenario (and only that scenario) the external internet connection is not party to the equation. That being said, the fact that users can -and do - stream HD content through that same less than wifi performance internet connection with no QoS speaks to the reality that HD content can, and is, streamed via wifi. 

Secondly, as I've already said, I ALSO prefer the comfort and higher reliability and performance of wired connections. I think I was pretty darned clear that my Tivos are all hardwired.

Third, I never EVER said that wifi was as reliable as standard CAT5E or CAT6. Please show me exactly where that idea came across, as it does not exist. Refer to previous comment for the hard of reading.

I also need no primer from Wikipedia as to wired and wireless. I am extremely experienced with enterprise networking on a global scale. If you read through my mention of using Cabletron Roamabout back in '99, you should have asked yourself how I got that technology. No bragging, just making a statement.

Wifi will clearly have more issues resulting from a multitude of factors, such as the fact that it's half duplex to start with, variation in channel strength, interference from microwave ovens, cordless phones, etc. I was pretty clear in qualifying my answer to say if you DON'T have those issues, then it works quite well. I will certainly admit that the transport had better be buffered, as if it is not then honestly I think we'll likely see problems from time to time even with wired (go back to the internet connection for beyond just Tivo to Tivo streams). Blu-ray quality is an entirely different discussion as far as I'm concerned.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> I also need no primer from Wikipedia as to wired and wireless.


The Wikipedia link is not a primer on wired vs. wireless. It's very specifically a citation to show you that your claim that G goes up to 72 Mbps is wrong.



> _If you read through my mention of using Cabletron Roamabout back in '99, you should have asked yourself how I got that technology._


 We'd be more impressed if you just stopped talking rubbish.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

wmcbrine said:


> The Wikipedia link is not a primer on wired vs. wireless. It's very specifically a citation to show you that your claim that G goes up to 72 Mbps is wrong.
> 
> We'd be more impressed if you just stopped talking rubbish.


I dont think he is talking rubbish at all. I have no issues streaming via wireless N from about 25 feet apart and 2 rooms


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

N is not the issue, really. Notice his original claim: "Basic 802.11b can handle multiple simultaneous HD streams with zero issues - with no compression." and try to tell me that's not absurd.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Cure said:


> How is everyone doing with this? I've been trying to watch the Australian Open in different rooms but MRS just doesn't work. It stutters and stops like you're watching something with an incredibly low frame rate. I don't think it's my network; one TiVo is hardwired with Ethernet and the other one is wireless.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Well the original post is less than a day old so I thought we should maybe pay a little more attention to helping this guy out.


Has anyone else seen the issue he is seeing?
Besides going 100% wired does anyone have any other advise for him?
What additional info do people need from him to help?

My advise is to restart everything TiVos router, etc. and see if that helps. If it doesn't I would get the wireless TiVo on your network with a wire even if it means moving it next to the one that is already wired to test streaming 100% wired and go from there.

Good Luck,


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't want to get into the questions of what the "Real" speed of wireless G transfers is, but if you search you'll find very few people able to transfer HD content at real time speed in their homes over a wireless G connection.

Wireless G is not going to be fast enough on your Tivo to do HD streaming in a satisfactory way. I would go with a MoCA connection. If you search MoCA on these forums you'll find that people are overwhelmingly pleased with the results.

You can get dedicated MoCA adapters for 60-70. If you are comfortable with basic router configuration you can buy some MI424WR routers on ebay for $20-30 each and make them into dumb MoCA bridges.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145636


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

There is a reason companies like RCN won't even enable or support streaming on the TiVo unless it is wired.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I think some people are confusing MPEG-2 (which is what 99.99999% of TiVo Premiere HD recordings are) and MPEG-4 (which is what most online streaming uses). Streaming Netflix as 4 mbps is not quite the same as 19 mbps TiVo streams


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

innocentfreak said:


> There is a reason companies like RCN won't even enable or support streaming on the TiVo unless it is wired.


Ding, ding, ding...winner!


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## shoeboo (Nov 28, 2006)

Cure said:


> How is everyone doing with this? I've been trying to watch the Australian Open in different rooms but MRS just doesn't work. It stutters and stops like you're watching something with an incredibly low frame rate. I don't think it's my network; one TiVo is hardwired with Ethernet and the other one is wireless.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Have you checked to see what TiVo is reporting for your throughput for transfers? I don't think this is available for streaming but will work if you transfer a program (Settings/Network/Network Diagnostics/Transfer history/Incoming or outgoing DVR transfer). When my premieres where wireless N I would get around 22Mb/s for throughput, now that I hardwired them it is 74 Mb/s. This has resulted in much better streaming performance for me since I ran the cables last week.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

shoeboo said:


> Have you checked to see what TiVo is reporting for your throughput for transfers? I don't think this is available for streaming but will work if you transfer a program (Settings/Network/Network Diagnostics/Transfer history/Incoming or outgoing DVR transfer). When my premieres where wireless N I would get around 22Mb/s for throughput, now that I hardwired them it is 74 Mb/s. This has resulted in much better streaming performance for me since I ran the cables last week.


Hmmm. I get about 72Mb/s on N and got about 33Mb/s on G prior


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

compnurd said:


> Hmmm. I get about 72Mb/s on N and got about 33Mb/s on G prior


I wonder whose wireless network was setup properly? compnurd or shoeboo?


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> I wonder whose wireless network was setup properly? compnurd or shoeboo?


LOL nothing Special Either.... I have a E3000 Serving the house... and the one Tivo has a E1000 on it turned into a Client Bridge. I have alot of AP's in my area but i spent several hours isolating the channels to find the best one.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

compnurd said:


> LOL nothing Special Either.... I have a E3000 Serving the house... and the one Tivo has a E1000 on it turned into a Client Bridge. I have alot of AP's in my area but i spent several hours isolating the channels to find the best one.


That is much, much more than most people do. The end result was obviosuly worth it. If most people would do that it would probably eliminate alot of problems people have.


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## shoeboo (Nov 28, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> I wonder whose wireless network was setup properly? compnurd or shoeboo?


I didn't intend to speak of the absolute capabilities of wireless vs wired, I was just trying to give the OP some quantitative way to assess his network (22Mbps :down:, 72Mbps :up rather than all the bickering on wireless protocols.
I have decent network equipment on an open channel (Netgear N600, trendnet N gaming adapters) but I think I was pushing limit of wireless with 2 exterior and 1 interior walls between AP and one premiere.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> N is not the issue, really. Notice his original claim: "Basic 802.11b can handle multiple simultaneous HD streams with zero issues - with no compression." and try to tell me that's not absurd.


It is not absurd. We did it in a number of instances. As a matter of fact, we also used point to point via Yagi antennas on b, with rates sufficient assuming you weren't doing much else on the network. Was there buffering? Sure. But there are technical solutions for that.

I strongly recommend you read the entire post rather than trying to pull piecemeal pieces of it to support your argument. Would I recommend implementing b for anything today? Heck no! How many people even still HAVE b? Since by the time widespread (non corporate) adoption of Wifi started taking off AFTER b had pretty much become secondary, my guess is not all that many.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

rainwater said:


> I think some people are confusing MPEG-2 (which is what 99.99999% of TiVo Premiere HD recordings are) and MPEG-4 (which is what most online streaming uses). Streaming Netflix as 4 mbps is not quite the same as 19 mbps TiVo streams


You're right. When I made that original statement yesterday, I mistakenly focused on HD streaming - NOT Tivo to Tivo MRS. Frankly, I do not and will likely never have all Premieres in my home, so I couldn't care less. There are to my knowledge no plans to release MRS from Premieres to HD/S3s. So, I was (as I admitted earlier and apologized for) talking about MPEG4.

I will absolutely admit to this, and already have. For some folks, that's not enough.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> The Wikipedia link is not a primer on wired vs. wireless. It's very specifically a citation to show you that your claim that G goes up to 72 Mbps is wrong.
> 
> We'd be more impressed if you just stopped talking rubbish.


You need to do a little more reading about net capability of the different protocols, my friend. And perhaps just a little more practical experience in an enterprise.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

wmhjr said:


> You need to do a little more reading about net capability of the different protocols, my friend. And perhaps just a little more practical experience in an enterprise.


Really-can you point us to the enterprises that are streaming MPEG-2 ATSC content over 802.11b wireless connections? Since that what the original poster was asking about?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

shoeboo said:


> I didn't intend to speak of the absolute capabilities of wireless vs wired, I was just trying to give the OP some quantitative way to assess his network (22Mbps :down:, 72Mbps :up rather than all the bickering on wireless protocols.
> I have decent network equipment on an open channel (Netgear N600, trendnet N gaming adapters) but I think I was pushing limit of wireless with 2 exterior and 1 interior walls between AP and one premiere.


And that is my point, most wireless networks are not setup properly because of issues that either prevent the proper setup or they are just not setup properly. In that situation you need multiple APs to get the proper coverage.

Wireless Networks are typically setup with not enough APs to get a strong signal signal strength which will cause slow speeds. Or they have over saturated APs which also result in slow speeds. And of course you can get interference from not being set on the proper channels based on what channels other traffic is using in the area.

Just in my condo I needed to setup 4 APs so that I could always get very fast speeds from anywhere in the condo and also not over saturate any of the APs.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

wmhjr said:


> You're right. When I made that original statement yesterday, I mistakenly focused on HD streaming - NOT Tivo to Tivo MRS. Frankly, I do not and will likely never have all Premieres in my home, so I couldn't care less. There are to my knowledge no plans to release MRS from Premieres to HD/S3s. So, I was (as I admitted earlier and apologized for) talking about MPEG4.
> 
> I will absolutely admit to this, and already have. For some folks, that's not enough.


You were extremely dismissive of pretty much everyone, referring to their opinions as "old wives tails" despite not having read the original poster's problem and offering arguments related to an entirely different use case with drastically different bandwidth requirements.

You are continuing to argue about an entirely different use case than the original poster's problem.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> I strongly recommend you read the entire post


I've read everything you've posted in this thread, but in retrospect, I regret the time wasted. *plonk*


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> I wonder whose wireless network was setup properly? compnurd or shoeboo?


That's the problem with wireless... you can get great performance and then, overnight, the performance can go in the toilet due to a new source of interference, changing a piece of gear on the wireless, etc.

So, by all means, if you enjoy troubleshooting those kinds of problems in order to get good consistent wireless performance 24/7 feel free to use wireless instead of ethernet or MOCA.


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## g_stewart (Mar 12, 2007)

Is this fyodor of nmap fame posting?


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

g_stewart said:


> Is this fyodor of nmap fame posting?


Nope. Didn't even know what nmap was until I googled it.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

I'll add that the Netgear MoCA kit (two adapters) can be found on ebay for $80 total.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NETGEAR-MCA...299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fcc6c873


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> And that is my point, most wireless networks are not setup properly because of issues that either prevent the proper setup or they are just not setup properly. In that situation you need multiple APs to get the proper coverage.


Even if your wireless networks are setup properly, there's nothing preventing your idiot neighbor from plopping his network on the same exact channel as you and jacking up his power. That or buying a microwave or some other device that interferes with your network.

That happened to me and eventually I went more or less all wired (MoCA) instead of a wireless bridge.

Then there's problems with device manufactures with buggy wireless drivers. I had a Wireless N bridge that was plenty fast enough, but when trying to access a remote TiVo through it, it took forever to bring up the program info for programs. After searching I found out it turns out the bridge was introducing checksum errors for small packet transmissions which was throwing the TiVo software for a loop since all the packets were being NACKed.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

MichaelK said:


> What do i need to do to enable streaming? I have an elite activated Wednesday and a plain premiere activated on Thursday. Both updated to 20.2 the same night activated yet I dont have any option to stream- just transfer...


they literally just turned mine on (or my boxes just called in to get enabled). Tried before dinner- no luck. Just tried now and I'm watching something that is currently recording on my bedroom box on the living room box. Too cool!.

Time to rethink my SPL lists as at least some of the duplicates can get deleted now.... :up:


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## SamuriHL (Jan 24, 2012)

MichaelK said:


> Time to rethink my SPL lists as at least some of the duplicates can get deleted now.... :up:


I was just thinking the exact same thing.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

SamuriHL said:


> I was just thinking the exact same thing.


My favorite thing is you can watch from the second tv while it's still being recorded. No more needing to lock up multiple tuners for hours on end to record baseball games!


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## SamuriHL (Jan 24, 2012)

MichaelK said:


> My favorite thing is you can watch from the second tv while it's still being recorded. No more needing to lock up multiple tuners for hours on end to record baseball games!


Yes indeed. I've already started pruning my season passes. SO happy!!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I also like that no matter what Box I stop streaming from, and no matter what I box I start streaming again, when in the middle of a show, it will automatically start where I left off watching.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

I have a new wireless N router and a 40 mb cable connection and have no trouble streaming HD video on my Roku or Boxee Box at excellent quality, but the new MRV between my Premieres is useless. I can't get more than a very slow unwatchable herky jerk stream


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

tivoknucklehead said:


> I have a new wireless N router and a 40 mb cable connection and have no trouble streaming HD video on my Roku or Boxee Box at excellent quality, but the new MRV between my Premieres is useless. I can't get more than a very slow unwatchable herky jerk stream


HD on the Roku is MPEG-4. Stuff like Netflix maxes out around 4 Mbps. Streaming Premiere to Premiere is MPEG-2 (this is what almost all cable recordings are encoded in) and requires up to almost 20 Mbps. How fast your internet connection is does not matter. Streaming at 20 Mbps is very difficult over wireless despite the theoretical limits being higher.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

rainwater said:


> HD on the Roku is MPEG-4. Stuff like Netflix maxes out around 4 Mbps. Streaming Premiere to Premiere is MPEG-2 (this is what almost all cable recordings are encoded in) and requires up to almost 20 Mbps. How fast your internet connection is does not matter. Streaming at 20 Mbps is very difficult over wireless despite the theoretical limits being higher.


Yep... You either need a REALLY good G Connection or you need to go N to have a chance streaming over wireless


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

rainwater said:


> HD on the Roku is MPEG-4. Stuff like Netflix maxes out around 4 Mbps. Streaming Premiere to Premiere is MPEG-2 (this is what almost all cable recordings are encoded in) and requires up to almost 20 Mbps. How fast your internet connection is does not matter. Streaming at 20 Mbps is very difficult over wireless despite the theoretical limits being higher.


except I can stream between my directv boxes with little problem on the same wireless N network


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

tivoknucklehead said:


> except I can stream between my directv boxes with little problem on the same wireless N network


DirecTV is Mpeg4 also now. This is why the old HD DirecTiVo no longer works with HD because they switched from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> DirecTV is Mpeg4 also now. This is why the old HD DirecTiVo no longer works with HD because they switched from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4.


well maybe tivo should switch to mpeg 4 too then


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

tivoknucklehead said:


> well maybe tivo should switch to mpeg 4 too then


They cant. They only record in the format the cable company pushes which is MPEG-2 in the vast majority of markets. OTA is Mpeg-2 also. If MPEG-4 is used by the cable company, they can record it


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## SamuriHL (Jan 24, 2012)

It will happen eventually. Cable companies are running out of bandwidth as they add more channels. They will need to switch to h.264 at some point. When they do, they will also likely start supporting DD+ for on demand and PPV. That would be really nice, too. But yea, the TiVo will support it with no problem once they make the switch. For now we're stuck with MPEG2 and DD.


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## ShinySteelRobot (Apr 2, 2010)

tivoknucklehead said:


> I have a new wireless N router and a 40 mb cable connection and have no trouble streaming HD video on my Roku or Boxee Box at excellent quality, but the new MRV between my Premieres is useless. I can't get more than a very slow unwatchable herky jerk stream


Try starting the stream, then pausing it and waiting a short while.

IME, on my WiFi N network if I start a stream and try to watch it right away, then I occasionally see some jerkiness. But if I wait a couple of minutes and then unpause the stream, the show plays smoothly until the end.


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## harric (Apr 5, 2010)

After suffering with MRS studdering, I spent the whole day trying to figure out why. I have Fios, using their supplied router. I have 4 Tivo Premieres...1 hard wired, and 3 connected via 200 mbps Zycel powerline adapters. Its the Tivo's on 2 of the power line adapters that I am seeing the studdering. 

I upgraded to Netgear 500 mbps powerline adapters.....These came with a tool to measure the network speed to each adapter...1 adapter was 176. The other two were 56 and 42. There is my problem. I switched these two back to the zyxel adapters....same speed...56 and 42.

I then purchased a new router to see if they would make a difference. I purchased the Netgear N900 Dual Band gigabit router....Set it all up...same network speed to the 2 suspect powerline adapters.

Ran back out to the store again to buy two ethernet wireless adapters(Netgear WNCE3001) I read these work with Tivos (even the usb will power the unit). These plug into the ethernet jack of Tivo, and the USB of the tivo to supply the power. I purchased these because they were easier to set up than Tivo's USB wireless adapters, and were cheaper. The TIvo boxes connected easily with out changing any of the network configurations on the box.

All 4 Tivo's can MRS without any choppiness, and Transfer much more quickly.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

SamuriHL said:


> It will happen eventually. Cable companies are running out of bandwidth as they add more channels. They will need to switch to h.264 at some point. When they do, they will also likely start supporting DD+ for on demand and PPV. That would be really nice, too. But yea, the TiVo will support it with no problem once they make the switch. For now we're stuck with MPEG2 and DD.


Agreed. MPEG2 is incredibly wasteful, the only reason that it has not been replaced already is that there are literally millions of dollars of gear throughout the processing chain, all the way down to end user devices, that can't handle H.264.

I routinely compress BDs of movies for my wife down to 720P H.264 and the size is about 1/2 of what the same movie is in MPEG-2 format for DVD but obviously with dramatically better PQ.


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

Just hooked up MoCa adapters to my router and a Premier that was on wireless 'N' and at the opposite end of the house. A transfer from an Elite to this Premier got 67Mbs. Wow! Not bad considering the splitters and amplifier it had to pass through.

I think the difference is the point to point connection. Unless you use the TiVo Wireless 'N' adapters the data has to pass through your router. With MoCa the data goes directly from TiVo to TiVo and bypasses the router.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

andyf said:


> I think the difference is the point to point connection. Unless you use the TiVo Wireless 'N' adapters the data has to pass through your router. With MoCa the data goes directly from TiVo to TiVo and bypasses the router.


That's one of the things many people using wireless don't take into account. If you try to stream wireless from one TiVo to another, you are basically halving the speeds. That doesn't take into account any other wireless devices on your network.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

morac said:


> That's one of the things many people using wireless don't take into account. If you try to stream wireless from one TiVo to another, you are basically halving the speeds. That doesn't take into account any other wireless devices on your network.


You are right, and, as long as this subject has been broached, it's also worth noting that the presence of even a single 802.11b or 802.11g device will degrade the speed of 802.11n devices that share the same wireless network. Some wireless routers have dual radios for dealing with this (so you can dump all of your new stuff on the "n only" radio) but let's face it, the typical consumer would be clueless.


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