# TiVoWeb Module Question



## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Just a quick question. Does anyone know of a module that'll alter the appearance of the remote control in TW (final) so that it'll appear as it does in TWP 1.3.1? I like the photo of the remote as it's much easier to use than the graphic in TW. My eyesite isn't great so it would be useful. 

I know I could just install TWP but I'm happy with TW. It took me so long to get it installed and working I don't want to mess around with it. Plus the instructions for TWP are very very poor for a virtual beginner, like what I is!


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## devo1977 (Mar 19, 2007)

Wouldn't mind a copy too (or a point in the right direction), if there is one. Cheers.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

The Web Remote functionality in Tivoweb 1.9.4 uses images stored in the TiVo resources (i.e. a TiVo file), while the TivoWebPlus Web Remote functionality uses .png files in your hack directory.

In less technical terms, it's not just a matter of copying a graphic from one place to another. The Web Remote script in TivoWebPlus doesn't work in Tivoweb 1.9.4 either (I tried ages ago for the same reason).

I'm afraid we have to live with it as it is, since Tivoweb 1.9.4 is no longer being developed (i.e. it's frozen) and has been superceded by TivoWebPlus 2.x.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Well, there's nothing stopping anyone changing it iof they wanted!


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Yuh - but wasn't sure about the 'licensing' implications, or whether it was considered the 'done thing' to retrofit.

Also, I suspect it would open a can of worms (i.e. 'can we get this back...')


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

You could just create it as a stand alone module. Neat trick with TCL is that if you define a proc with the same name as one already loaded, your new code simply replaces the old definition, meaning that making patches is real easy - you don't have to edit the patched code.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

I've been running the following for around a week without problems. It's a retro-fit of the TivoWebPlus 'Web Remote' module to tivoweb 1.9.4.

All copyrights are with the original authors. 

To install:
Download the attached file.
Unzip it. You'll end up with two files webremotePlus.itcl and hdvr2.png
Transfer (FTP) webremotePlus.itcl to the tivoweb modules directory (normally /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/modules)
Transfer hdvr2.png *in binary* to the tivoweb images directory (normally /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/images)
Now do a quick reload of tivoweb and you're done!


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi Colin, something is wrong here (or it's my old Winzip problem again!). At the 'tar xvf WebRemote.tar' stage I get 'bash: tar: command not found'. Any idea what I'm doing wrong this time? Thanks.


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Ricky,

Tar isn't a standard command on TiVo there's a copy of it at this page;

http://www.xse.com/leres/tivo/downloads/

You'll need to download it and FTP it to the TiVo (/var/hack/bin is as good a directory as any).

Also, the following command should work instead (*But I'm not 100% certain*);
cpio -idu -H tar WebRemote.tar

Cheers,

Ian

EDIT:
A better option is to use "Stage 3" (up to the line that says "To test this, I kept the telnet session open (just in case) and launched a new telnet session to the TiVo.") at;
http://www.planetbuilders.org/tivo/tivo_upgrade_diary.html
This will give lots of other useful tools as well as tar.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Colin,

Well done on updating TivoWeb with the new TivoWebPlus Remote. Of course another way to get the new TivoWebPlus Remote while still using TivoWeb is to install the Yahoo Widgets Desktop TivoWeb module. This module is compatible with TivoWeb 1.9.4 and TivoWebPlus as the data source but uses the new style remote on the desktop in either case.

On your own above installation instructions I think you forgot to mention deleting webremote.itcl as the final step as otherwise you end up with two Web Remote listings on the TivoWeb main menu?

Also why do you programmer chaps so much prefer dealing in Tar files? For the rest of us mere mortals a zip file containing just the itcl and png files and instructions telling us which tivoweb directories to put them in is really a much simpler approach. Especially as Tar isn't installed with TivoWeb as standard.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Too right! I still haven't managed to install the new remote as I can't get round the whole tar issue. Too complicated for me.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

7zip on windows supports tar if you want to uncompress on the pc, and transfer files inidvidually. 
Its free, and you just right click the .tar file...


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi guys. I tried to transfer the files manually as described, putting the itcl file in modules and the png file where I thought it should go (images) but after reloading TW I lost my remote completely. Any ideas? Maybe copying the files doesn't work quite the same way.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

rickynumber18 said:


> Hi guys. I tried to transfer the files manually as described, putting the itcl file in modules and the png file where I thought it should go (images) but after reloading TW I lost my remote completely. Any ideas? Maybe copying the files doesn't work quite the same way.


That ought to have worked but how did you extract the files from the Tar file?


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

I just used Winzip to extract the two files. One's an itcl file (to go into modules?) and the other is a png file. Now if only I can find some clear instructions on what to do with the two files as nothing I try seems to work?!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

rickynumber18 said:


> I just used Winzip to extract the two files. One's an itcl file (to go into modules?) and the other is a png file. Now if only I can find some clear instructions on what to do with the two files as nothing I try seems to work?!


I didn't know WinZip could handle tar files. I suspect that may be what has messed things up.


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I didn't know WinZip could handle tar files. I suspect that may be what has messed things up.


Apparently it does;
http://www.winzip.com/wzdifs.htm

Cheers,

Ian


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Now we know it does, I just need to fathom where to put the png file as everything I've tried to date hasn't worked at all. Maybe I'll just stick with the existing remote...less headache all round.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

rickynumber18 said:


> Now we know it does, I just need to fathom where to put the png file as everything I've tried to date hasn't worked at all. Maybe I'll just stick with the existing remote...less headache all round.


/var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/images is the directory for the png file.

The itcl file goes in /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/modules


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Looking in the tar file shows that webremotePlus.itcl should be in;
- /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/modules
and that hdvr2.png should be in;
- /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/images
as you suspected.

Manually copying the files may have lost the file permissions; looking in the tar file shows that they have "775" permissions. If this is the case then you need to telnet to the TiVo and type the following;

chmod 755 /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/modules/webremotePlus.itcl
chmod 755 /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/images/hdvr2.png

If that doesn't fix it then I'm not sure what the problems is.

Cheers,

Ian


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

verses said:


> Manually copying the files may have lost the file permissions; looking in the tar file shows that they have "775" permissions. If this is the case then you need to telnet to the TiVo and type the following;


I never have that problem with permissions being changed if I unzip the Tar file on my PC using Win Ace Archiver. Its supposed to be limited to a 30 day evaluation period unless you buy but in fact keeps working for Tar unzipping even when the 30 days is over.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi. I've hit a wall again. I downloaded Win Ace as suggested and unzipped the file. As with WinZip no great problem copying over the files via FTP but when I restart TW my remote vanishes. I've tried it with and without the original webremote file being present. 

I also tried the 'chmod 755' strings provided by Verses. I dabbled a bit and tried 'chmod 775' as well as that was mentioned. I.E: "775" permissions. Again, no luck.


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Apologies, the "775 was a typo and should have read 755.

Ian


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I expect you aren't transferring the files in Binary mode in your FTP file transfer client.

If you fail to transfer them in Binary mode their content will be altered and they won't run under the Linux Windows operating system.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi Pete. I have my FTP application set to Binary.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

rickynumber18 said:


> Hi Pete. I have my FTP application set to Binary.


What is the FTP application. Have you used it for plenty of other Tivo related things previously without any issue?

I would recommend Filezilla personally:-

See http://filezilla.sourceforge.net/


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Ricky, Ricky, Ricky. What are we to do with you? 

OK - the advice about the location of the files is correct. I had made the tarfile to try to make sure that when the 'tar xvf' bit was done, the files would be in the right place.

Just to clarify where they should be:

/var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/modules/webremotePlus.itcl
/var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/images/hdvr2.png

You also must do the quick restart of Tivoweb.

There are some quirks that you can look for to see if the script is there and being recognised:

1) 'Web Remote' will be listed twice on the Tivoweb menu. Both will do the same thing, however.

2) When you select 'Web Remote', you should get a little table of keys that can be pressed. With the 'plus' version you'll have: " 'r' FastRwd" as the last entry. With the original webremote you'll have " '/' Backspace Reply".

What do you see for these two things?

Another chech - file sizes:

webremote.itcl should be 9928 bytes on your TiVo.
hdvr2.png should 38588 bytes on your TiVo.

Finally - thanks to all those jumping in to help. Real Life(tm) is a bit hectic today!


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Linux Windows operating system


That's quite funny, albeit unintentional.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

For what it's worth, neither file permissions nor Unix/DOS line endings effect .itcl files.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> For what it's worth, neither file permissions nor Unix/DOS line endings effect .itcl files.


How about non binary uploading?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Ricky,

Also have you tried a full reboot of your Tivo using the normal Tivo System Reset menu on the television?

Sometimes a Full Reload from the Tivoweb menus is not enough and only a full reboot will do the trick with a newly installed Tivoweb app.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

That's the Unix/DOS line endings problem.

.itcl is pretty bulletproof. The line ending (binary/text) problem only effects the first line of an executable, (the TCL interpreter disregards the DOS line endings but BASH which interprets the first line does not), and .itcl file is not actually executed - it is opened and read by another TCL program as a data file - so doesn't need to have the "Execute" permission set.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hello all. Thanks for all the advise. Still no luck I'm afraid. I'm using SmartFTP but I've also tried Filezilla. No problem copying the files via FTP binary and yes, the sizes are right. I've also done a full reboot of the TiVo box but I still have the existing remote with the text symbols etc as they should appear with the standard remote. I think I'm beaten again!!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Do I recall you tried various versions of TiVoWeb? Are you sure you're copying the files to the \modules directory of the right installation?


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Yes sir. TivoWeb-TCL modules and not the other one. I think it's just me. Nothing I try seems to work. You think I'd be getting the hang of things by now but I'm just getting worse!!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

If you follow Colin's instructions to the letter and don't delete the old webremote itcl file you end up with two Web Remote's in your TivoWeb menus.

How many WebRemotes do you see in your TivoWeb menus and are you trying them both?


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi. I followed Colin's instructions mostly to the letter. I couldn't get the hang of the whole .tar file thing as the telnet instructions didn't do anything (hence my first post). Instead I followed later advice and just copied the two relevant files to the appropriate folders. I did remove WinZip to avoid the whole name changing issue I get when coming files across using FTP binary. 

I restarted my TiVo again this AM and still only the original remote. Not to worry honestly, I'm finally getting to grips with TW+ and it has a decent remote. I think it was more a case of me getting fed up with constantly getting beaten by these scripts etc. Cheers.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I still can't see why it isn't working on your machine Ricky as just uploading these two files to the right directories is a pretty straightforward modification compared to something like Daily Mail and getting it to run daily using Cron. Getting DailyMail to do what you want it to is a real challenge although great when you finally get there.


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## lenwuk (Oct 3, 2004)

I've failed to get this working as well.
I've installed tivoweb from scratch, followed the instuctions in this thread to the letter, and . . . nothing. 
"Webremote" doesn't even show on the tivoweb menu
Oh well.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi Lenwuk. At least I know it's not just me. Take my advice, don't waste your time. I've spent nearly a week on it. In my case I left the original Webremote in situ so technically I should have two, but as of right now I only have the original. I've tried removing it too but as you say you just end up with no remote at all.

Do as I did, just install TW+ instead, which is pretty much the same and has the same remote that we're trying to install into TW. I now have TW and TW+ running.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

lenwuk said:


> "Webremote" doesn't even show on the tivoweb menu


Intriguing.

Web Remote is standard on Tivoweb - did you not have it before installing my script?

Can you take a screen-dump of your Tivoweb main menu and post it here?

What puzzles me is that this is so simple a 'hack'. I followed my own instructions to try to make it fool-proof, so I'm a bit lost as to what might have gone wrong - other than the files being in the wrong place. There's something I'm missing here, but I don't know what.

Can you check out post #27 and report back?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> What puzzles me is that this is so simple a 'hack'. I followed my own instructions to try to make it fool-proof, so I'm a bit lost as to what might have gone wrong - other than the files being in the wrong place. There's something I'm missing here, but I don't know what.


Colin with respect I think the complication may have been introduced by your tar file which gave those less technically competent the opportunity to get things wrong.

Had you just provided the itcl file and the png file as is and/or in a simple zip file and issued stern instructions that they must be uploaded with the Tivo user's normal ftp program in binary mode to the appropriate directories and not edited in a Windows text editor or on your Windows PC at all then nothing could have gone wrong. But by introducing the need to untar you introduced a lot of complication and chances to get things wrong to those not familiar with such things.

Those of us who are not programmers tend to shudder and be offput at the very mention of tar files.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hi Colin. I can't speak for lenwuk, but I have followed post 27 previously and all posted suggestions since. I've tried with the original webremote installed and without it. If I install your files in the suggested directories without the original remote in situ I end up with no remote at all. This is what lenwuk reported in his post. 

Considering how confused I get I'm afraid to ask what a 'screen dump' is of my TivoWeb main menu. Is it simple?


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## lenwuk (Oct 3, 2004)

Hello Colin,
I've checked everything in post#27 and everything checks out - the files are the right sizes and they're in the right place.
I've tried installing using the "tar" method and also manually ftping across (binary mode). The files have the appropriate permission.
The reason I didn't have ANY webremote was that I uninstalled it at one point to make sure there was no conflict occuring.
When I put the original webremote module back then it appears on the menu again.
I've taken a cursory look at the module source, but I don't know TCL so it's a bit meaningless to me. Do I need to be exporting any variables for this module to work? Is there any way I can trace execution of the module to see where it is failing?

Regards, Len


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

As an alternative approach to getting access to the TivoWebPlus remote on your desktop at any time while using Tivoweb 1.9.4 plus a whole lot more functionality can I suggest you try installing the OzTivo Yahoo Widget instead:-

See http://widgets.yahoo.com/gallery/view.php?widget=39525


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## lenwuk (Oct 3, 2004)

Thanks Pete, but I don't particularly want Yahoo widgets on my PC.
Also, the geek in me would like to get THIS one working.  

Regards, Len


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Quit Tivoweb (frrom the restart menu)

Telnet to Tivo and 

cd /var/hack/tivoweb-tcl

then

./tivoweb console

Then copy-and-paste what you get here.


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## lenwuk (Oct 3, 2004)

AH!! - progress. Here's the relevant console output . . . 
.
.
.
.
webremote
webremotePlus
NONE can't read "::version": no such variable
while executing
"if {$::version > 4} {continue}"
(file "./modules/webremotePlus.itcl" line 10)
invoked from within
"source $module "
whatson
wishlists
Accepting Connections


I just commented out the offending line -
"if {$::version > 4} {continue}"
and it seems to work fine!
What does that line check for?

Regards, Len


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Well that's a bug in the code; TivoWeb 1.9.4 doesn't have a "version" variable as a number, it uses "version3" which is boolean as a version check.

Trouble is, this shouldn't have worked for anyone, unless they have another module installed which defines a global variable called "version"...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Trouble is, this shouldn't have worked for anyone, unless they have another module installed which defines a global variable called "version"...


Perhaps the Highlights, Tracker or Dailymail Tivoweb add on modules (which I and Colin and quite a few other people have added to Tivoweb 1.9.4) have indeed defined the global variable called "version"?

This must be the case as how else did the upgraded Web Remote module work in our versions of TivoWeb 1.9.4


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

OK - thanks for the diagnostics. I'll correct, as well as trying the module on a virgin Tivoweb install - which I should have done the first time.

Isn't learning fun?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

OK - new versions on post #7. Including individual files for those who dislike zip and tar files.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> OK - new versions on post #7. Including individual files for those who dislike zip and tar files.


The ideal thing is to put the itcl file and the png file in the zip rather than putting a tar file in the zip.

But now you have supplied the ictl file as a txt file which is sure to confuse our newer Tivocommunity members. 

Well done though on trapping the bug in the module. Do you have any idea which other TivoWeb module was overcoming the bug for some of us?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> The ideal thing is to put the itcl file and the png file in the zip rather than putting a tar file in the zip.


True. Hadn't thought of that.



Pete77 said:


> But now you have supplied the ictl file as a txt file


That's because you can't upload itcl files due to the extension restrictions.



Pete77 said:


> any idea


Well, hackman for one defines a version variable. Didn't really look into it much, though as I just worked on a virgin install of Tivoweb.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

OK Post #7 changed again to take in Pete's idea of one ZIP file, to rule them all.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> That's because you can't upload itcl files due to the extension restrictions.


You can upload itcl files in Filezilla and in binary mode too. What program stops you uploading them with an itcl file extension?



> Well, hackman for one defines a version variable. Didn't really look into it much, though as I just worked on a virgin install of Tivoweb.


Yes Hackman would be the explanation as practically all of us long term Tivoweb users have Hackman installed.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Re restrictions:



The Forum Software said:


> Valid file extensions: bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg kml pdf png psd txt zip


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> Re restrictions:


Valid to whom?


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

I think he means upload to the forum.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Also why do you programmer chaps so much prefer dealing in Tar files?


IANAP. 

Let me answer by turning the question around:

Why do you 'mere mortals' prefer ZIP files?

Your answer will be the same.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

TiVo is Linux system. The Linux "standard" packaging formats are tar and gzip.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Many thanks to Colin for correcting the bug and to everyone for their help. After I wasted more than a week's worth of hours on this I downloaded the revised files this morning and I now have WebRemote+ - I'm just glad that it wasn't something I was doing wrong with each new instruction. 

Interesting though that it worked for some with the bug but not for others.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Ricky - glad you've got the remote now.

The reason it failed for you but not others is down to the Tivoweb modules you have installed - or rather *don't* have installed. Oh, that and shoddy testing on my part.


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## SilkMan (Feb 13, 2007)

Testing? I thought that's what users were for


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