# Kitchen Nightmares Vs Restaurant:Impossible.



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I've been watching some RI episodes recently and they have the (annoying) habit of sending you to the website to see how the restaurants are doing. So, it made me wonder how the two shows compared and which was more successful.

We all know that there is a certain amount (a LOT) of drama with these shows and KN seems to be a lot worse than RI. It was interesting to see that they have aired a similar amount of shows and the closure rate for KN is almost double that of RI, despite a longer visit and much higher budget!

Kitchen Nightmares

Restaurant:Impossible

What's even more interesting is the fact that, out of 22 UK restaurants, only three are still open with their original owners!

I like Ramsay and we're planning on trying to eat at one of his London restaurants when we go there in September, but this makes interesting reading.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

That is fascinating. 38 restaurants out of 71 for Ramsey have closed. 

I wonder if Restaurant Impossible is choosing places they know they can help (read: not in such dire straights). 

I ate at Gordon Ramsey Steak in Las Vegas and was soooo disappointed. My $63 rib eye was raw (I ordered medium well), the Mac & Cheese was swimming in truffle oil, and the Sticky Toffee Pudding was bland. Would be interesting to know how his other places are.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I also hate that RI makes you go to the website for a status, but I do like that show better (although I watch both).


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Which is amusing since GR is a legitimate restaurateur with serious success outside his TV appearances and RI is kind of a fraud who has a reputation for ripping off investors outside his TV work.


Also, RI has been on a significantly shorter time, which could go a long way explaining the the closure rate differences. Restaurants, even well run ones have very high failure rate. With few exceptions, it's just a matter of time before they close.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Donbadabon said:


> I ate at Gordon Ramsey Steak in Las Vegas and was soooo disappointed. My $63 rib eye was raw (I ordered medium well), the Mac & Cheese was swimming in truffle oil, and the Sticky Toffee Pudding was bland. Would be interesting to know how his other places are.


I had similar experience with Emeril's Delmonico's at the Venetian in Las Vegas (expensive highly mediocre food with great service), though I had a great experience with his original place in New Orlean's (this was early in his success and he had actually been cooking in the restaurant the day before we dined there). The problem is that once these celebrity chefs start opening restaurants all over the place, the resteraunts becomes little more that a very fancy TGIF or Applebees. They're a chain and chains enforce mediocrity.

Having followed Ramsey a bit over the years, I doubt he would ever consider using truffle oil in any dish he created. Then again, I doubt Ramsey has ever cooked in or had anything other than a brief overview of the menu at Ramsay Steak.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> That is fascinating. 38 restaurants out of 71 for Ramsey have closed.
> 
> I wonder if Restaurant Impossible is choosing places they know they can help (read: not in such dire straights).
> 
> I ate at Gordon Ramsey Steak in Las Vegas and was soooo disappointed. My $63 rib eye was raw (I ordered medium well), the Mac & Cheese was swimming in truffle oil, and the Sticky Toffee Pudding was bland. Would be interesting to know how his other places are.


That also shows you how difficult running a restaurant is. The vast majority of restuarants supposedly close after a year or so.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

RI was at a local Italian place recently - the episode is supposed to air in August. We ate at the place many times before RI - the only problem that we had was that it was a little dirty. It mostly just needed new carpets and a good scrubbing. Food was very good, prices were reasonable, service was good. 

We've been back once after RI - and will likely not return. The menu was stripped down to the RI-standard, single, laser printed page (I'm almost thinking that all Italian places get the same RI menu). They increased the prices a bit. We always order garlic knots - now they charge $1.00 extra for a small cup of marinara sauce that used to be included. The service was horrible - very slow. The new decorations were very generic - they added shelves to two walls and it looked like they just went to a used sporting goods store and bought a bunch of crap to put on the shelves. One of the walls used to have plaques and photos from all of the youth sporting teams that they've sponsored over the years. Other decorations were handmade, and looked cheap. The quality of the carpentry work was poor. They also added a new wall to make a little waiting area by the new front door (which wasn't needed) - which meant less room in one of the dining areas so tables are squeezed together. The food tasted pretty much like it used to - not sure if there were changes there or not (besides reducing the menu).

I'm interested to watch the episode. I don't know what issues they were having before RI, but I would be surprised now if they are still in business at the end of the year.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

RI was just in my area at a place called Edibles. Robert Irvine has now begun to cheese it up a bit more than usual. Spitting out food he was tasting, and eventually turning over a table with a bunch of meals on it. Very dramatic. He then changed the name of the place from Edibles (which he hated) to the family name Hurley's - which pretty much means to vomit. I usually love the show, but they appear to be going a little over-the-top and faker than usual in these recent episodes.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

nickels said:


> RI was just in my area at a place called Edibles. Robert Irvine has now begun to cheese it up a bit more than usual. Spitting out food he was tasting, and eventually turning over a table with a bunch of meals on it. Very dramatic. He then changed the name of the place from Edibles (which he hated) to the family name Hurley's - which pretty much means to vomit. I usually love the show, but they appear to be going a little over-the-top and faker than usual in these recent episodes.


I have to admit the name Edibles is/was horrible. The second I heard that name I thought to myself, who would name it Edibles...like I would want to go to a place that just has edible food.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

nickels said:


> RI was just in my area at a place called Edibles. Robert Irvine has now begun to cheese it up a bit more than usual. Spitting out food he was tasting, and eventually turning over a table with a bunch of meals on it. Very dramatic. He then changed the name of the place from Edibles (which he hated) to the family name Hurley's - which pretty much means to vomit. I usually love the show, but they appear to be going a little over-the-top and faker than usual in these recent episodes.


turning over the table was a new one, but he has spit out food plenty of times before.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

mike_k said:


> RI was at a local Italian place recently - the episode is supposed to air in August. We ate at the place many times before RI - the only problem that we had was that it was a little dirty. It mostly just needed new carpets and a good scrubbing. Food was very good, prices were reasonable, service was good.
> 
> We've been back once after RI - and will likely not return. The menu was stripped down to the RI-standard, single, laser printed page (I'm almost thinking that all Italian places get the same RI menu). They increased the prices a bit. We always order garlic knots - now they charge $1.00 extra for a small cup of marinara sauce that used to be included. The service was horrible - very slow. The new decorations were very generic - they added shelves to two walls and it looked like they just went to a used sporting goods store and bought a bunch of crap to put on the shelves. One of the walls used to have plaques and photos from all of the youth sporting teams that they've sponsored over the years. Other decorations were handmade, and looked cheap. The quality of the carpentry work was poor. They also added a new wall to make a little waiting area by the new front door (which wasn't needed) - which meant less room in one of the dining areas so tables are squeezed together. The food tasted pretty much like it used to - not sure if there were changes there or not (besides reducing the menu).
> 
> I'm interested to watch the episode. I don't know what issues they were having before RI, but I would be surprised now if they are still in business at the end of the year.


So it looks like this episode airs on Sunday. Here's an article about it.


> Although business boomed for several weeks after taping, the restaurant saw a slow-down in July, said owner Tony Aponte. Hes hoping sales pick up after the episode airs.


Here's a gallery with some photos. The two photos with the booths and non-frosted windows are before. The rest of the interior photos are after. You can see the cheesy, home-made decorations I was talking about.

(The frosted windows do nothing to stop the glaring sunlight that hits in the late afternoon/evening.)

Should be an interesting episode, although I feel sorry for Tony that they screwed up his place like that.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Place looks great to me. Not much you can do (with 2 days and $10k) about glare considering that entire place is windows from floor to ceiling.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

pmyers said:


> Place looks great to me. Not much you can do (with 2 days and $10k) about glare considering that entire place is windows from floor to ceiling.


The fresh paint helps a lot. But adding the white shelves and putting some generic soccer balls, batting helmets and bowling pins on them adds no value. The two before photos don't show much - but you can see that the booths and neon signs are gone (I liked both). Many of the decorations that were removed showed their history in the community - sponsorship plaques from youth sports teams, etc.

I agree that there wasn't much that could be done about the glare in 2 days, but they could have saved the money from the window frosting and ordered some blinds and put them up a few days later.

I guess my point is that this was a case where some help with accounting and marketing probably would have gone a lot further than new decorations and chairs and a new, stripped down menu. I guess we'll see on Sunday what actual issues they attempted to solve.


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## mike_k (Sep 20, 2005)

Quick follow-up:

I didn't post after the show aired - it was a boring episode, and they didn't address any of the real issues with the restaurant.

Anyway, here's where they are three months later:



> Ive had to cut back, and I still have a situation with the IRS. Ive just let two people go, said Tony. I will keep the doors open until my luck runs out.
> 
> When that is, Tony cant say. Business is at an all-time low with sales down 30 percent over last year, and he still owes the IRS back taxes of about $100,000, he said.
> 
> The hype has died down and people have seen the inside and tried the new menu, said Sommer.


Mason pizzeria remains impossible


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

It's a shame he can't seem to make things work. But as he admitted, his troubles probably aren't with the food etc, it's mainly do to choosing a very poor location to reside in. Hopefully he can pull out of his slump.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

This RI blog is pretty interesting:
http://www.foodnetworkgossip.com/p/restaurant-impossible-updates.html#.Up9BMtJDtAI



> Running Total Of Episodes That Have Aired - 27 of 80 Restaurants Have Closed, 4 Restaurants Have Sold, and 49 of 80 Restaurants Are Still Open with the same owners.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Yeah, nice that he doesn't blame the show for his failures.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

nickels said:


> This RI blog is pretty interesting:
> http://www.foodnetworkgossip.com/p/restaurant-impossible-updates.html#.Up9BMtJDtAI


I'd say those are pretty good stats for the show!


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

I need to give the place near here that RI visited (Gusanoz Mexican) another visit at some point. They are still in business, which is a good sign.

The RI episode surprised me, since my experience there was that the food was always pretty decent (one of the owners is a very good Mexican cook), but the rest of the business was a shambles. Before the makeover, my summary of the place was "reasonably good food, and indifferent bordering on terrible service."

Sadly, I went back there just about six months after the renovation, and while the physical makeover was actually pretty nice, and the food pretty good, the service behaved like nothing had happened: the owner's children who got chewed out on the program for not really putting in effort were still not putting in effort, and the son that was more interested in his phone than tending bar was.... still more interested in his phone than tending bar. I ended up summarizing it as "reasonably good food, and indifferent bordering on terrible service."

I wrote up a bigger review on my blog: http://offbeateats.org/2012/11/gusanoz-chapter-3/ , which seriously pissed off the owner, so I'm a bit afraid to go back (haven't been there since May).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Can anybody figure out how to do a search to see if they have visited a place in my area (phoenix, az). I can't figure out their website:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/restaurant-impossible/index.html


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Can anybody figure out how to do a search to see if they have visited a place in my area (phoenix, az). I can't figure out their website:
> 
> http://www.foodnetwork.com/restaurant-impossible/index.html


The tracking link above on FoodNetworkGossip gives locations. The only Phoenix-areas one was Sapori D'Italia in Fountain Hills, which is apparently doing quite well.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Thanks...silly the actual foodnetwork website doesn't have a list.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

nickels said:


> RI was just in my area at a place called Edibles. Robert Irvine has now begun to cheese it up a bit more than usual. Spitting out food he was tasting, and eventually turning over a table with a bunch of meals on it. Very dramatic. He then changed the name of the place from Edibles (which he hated) to the family name Hurley's - which pretty much means to vomit. I usually love the show, but they appear to be going a little over-the-top and faker than usual in these recent episodes.


I am friends with the daughter of the owner of this place. It is closing on Sunday. Sad that it didn't work out.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

nickels said:


> I am friends with the daughter of the owner of this place. It is closing on Sunday. Sad that it didn't work out.


bummer. Looks from the recent reviews they actually turned it around quality-wise. Just too far in a hole to begin with?


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> That also shows you how difficult running a restaurant is. The vast majority of restuarants supposedly close after a year or so.





pmyers said:


> Yeah, nice that he doesn't blame the show for his failures.


It is nice. That was my thinking reading through this thread; it's not so much a question of how many of these places closed. The question is how many of them closed as a result of the changes made for the show. My guess is very, very few.

I have to figure if they're calling in GR or RI for a makeover, they must be in pretty dire straits to begin with. I don't watch either of these shows a whole lot, so I'm not sure how much they speak to this. But if things were already looking promising for your restaurant, you wouldn't be on these shows in the first place, right?


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

My friend's message on FB didn't get into details, just a fond farewell and some nice words about growing up there and and how much it meant to her. I don't think they blame RI at all. Most of these places are deep in debt by the time RI gets there, and no amount of fixing can save those places.

Here is the message she left, it wasn't something that she would mind sharing or I wouldn't repost it here:


Spoiler



This Sunday my parents will close down their restaurant of 27+ years. It's been a part of (well nearly) my entire life. It was my first job, a place we celebrated special occasions, some of my closest friends have worked there, it's how I met and lost my husband, it's how I was fed most days and how I sometimes feed my own kids and it has been a much needed source of income as well as a distraction from some of the tough spots in my life. Sunday will be the end of an amazing ride. My parents are extraordinary people. They taught me the value of hard work and they have helped me tremendously throughout the years. I cannot thank them enough for all of the love and support they have given to me. I am so proud of my parents for always being reputable business owners and for always supporting the local community. They consistently did what they could for others. My respect for them is insurmountable. If you have any fond memories of them or the restaurant please feel free to post. Also, if you have time this week, try to stop by the store to bid them farewell. Maybe even grab one last pizza....They as well as I would appreciate it! Much love to my parents- John and Butzy Hurley! You've done great...now enjoy some time off!


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

I wonder what it's like for those surveillance and renewal versions of those kind of shows like Restaurant Stakeout and Mystery Diners...


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Worf said:


> I wonder what it's like for those surveillance and renewal versions of those kind of shows like Restaurant Stakeout and Mystery Diners...


Wasn't it Stakeout that has been proven to be all fake and staged?


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## Grasshopper AZ (Apr 29, 2005)

pmyers said:


> Wasn't it Stakeout that has been proven to be all fake and staged?


Mystery Diners is. They did an episode at Hans Murphys in Glendale and it was completely fake and staged. Even the "employee" who was caught stealing liquor was an actor.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Reality TV is never real....real is too boring for TV.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Big Deficit said:


> Reality TV is never real....real is too boring for TV.


Understood...but there are different levels of "fake". That mystery diner's was fake from top to bottom.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Was it fake, or merely re-enacted? I mean, is it fake because it was completely made up fiction, or is it fake because it really happened, but they simply re-staged the event and recorded it on TV? Perhaps with editing for length?

(Though, Business Evaluation Services is apparently a real company that does do these techniques...)


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Here is the thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=487747&highlight=mystery+diners

from what I remember they would do stuff like hire fake waiters who would then steal or whatever else they needed to do.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Oddly, the links in that threat point to Restaurant Stakeout?!?


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## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

RI did an episode at a place very close to me in St Louis a year or so back.

I had ate there before RI, but have not ate there since the show, so I don't know if it improved or not.

The thing I found very funny(i know it was for the show), was Irvine was going to go out and talk to people about the restaurant . So, he gets in his car and drives (showing him in the car), Next scene shows him at his arrival place and talking to people. He gets back in his car to rush back to the restaurant .

Ok, that sounds good, except, that restaurant is in a strip mall. Irvine was talking to people and in the background you can see a Best Buy along with a Dollar Tree. All three of the places is in the SAME strip mall. The restaurant is just a little down from Best Buy.

It's a show I know, but I just LOL'ed when I saw him driving and showing the road out the window, when he just went down the parking lot a bit.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Faked driving is a trivial thing. Irvine is a fraud, at least a partial one. From the lying about his past to the defrauding of restaurant investors, he may be one of the worst selections as a restaurant advisor ever. Even with his TV chef cred, his *first* restaurant closed, his attempted St.Pete locations were a disaster and he's since opened a sandwich shop in a Tanger outlet mall (never been, but I avoid outlet malls at all cost). I've looked at his cook book and don't find the recipes compelling or particularly innovative. More like someone searched Allrecipes.com and changed things a little (which is likely true of most "celebrity chefs"). He does seem very good at failing upward.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I'll just say that every chef I've heard of, has had a restaurant/s close.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I'll just say that every chef I've heard of, has had a restaurant/s close.


True, but he has only had 2 that opened and the one still running is basically a sandwich shop in a mall. He also had 2 that never opened under very dubious circumstances. His lack of overall experience, very high failure rate and ethics issues doesn't exactly paint him as someone to take business advice from. Stack that against Gordon Ramsey's experience, like comparing a new Bentley to a kids tricycle. Yet Irvines show soldiers on while Ramsey's goes away.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, I think Ramsay's got more of a full plate on his hands, between his restaurants and his other shows. And let's not forget Ramsay is more on Fox (who really are the ones behind Hell's Kitchen) when he really wants to do more MasterChef and the like. Plus I'm sure filming UK and US episodes takes a toll.

Plus, Ramsay said he's stopping KN on his own - more of a hiatus than a cancellation. And Ramsay isn't exactly hurting for work - he's got Hotel Hell to film too.

Looking over his bio, he's got a full plate between several dozen restaurants, a handful of TV shows across continents.

Irvine, well, he's basically just got RI. So yeah, someone's hurting for a paycheque, while the other has more work than one person can handle.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Worf said:


> ...Irvine, well, he's basically just got RI. So yeah, someone's hurting for a paycheque, while the other has more work than one person can handle.


Are you his accountant?


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## Kim kelley (Oct 26, 2017)

TonyTheTiger said:


> I've been watching some RI episodes recently and they have the (annoying) habit of sending you to the website to see how the restaurants are doing. So, it made me wonder how the two shows compared and which was more successful.
> 
> We all know that there is a certain amount (a LOT) of drama with these shows and KN seems to be a lot worse than RI. It was interesting to see that they have aired a similar amount of shows and the closure rate for KN is almost double that of RI, despite a longer visit and much higher budget!
> 
> ...


My theory is that 98% of the owners only apply to be on these shows for the remodel. Otherwise they'd be more open to change from the get go instead of having to be convinced. With a successful remodel the failing restaurant could be sold for more and as we know KN spends more on their remodels. So if you put all of that together it makes sense that more owners who go into it knowing they'll sell almost immediately would first go to KN to get the more expensive remodel to maximize their resale value.


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