# I have the "no sound" problem



## AWT (Aug 25, 2005)

Has anyone worked out a fix for this "no sound" after a reboot?

I had to swap a failing HDD last weekend so I replaced the Samsung 400GB with a Seagate 500GB. My Tivo also has a 512MB Cache card.

Prior to the Seagate, a warm boot would fix it. With the Seagate, even after a few warm boots there's still no sound.

Here's a snip of the kernel.log:

```
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) kernel: I2C arbitration error at address 0x88. 
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) last message repeated 2 times
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) kernel: Msp: error reading MSP HW ver. 
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) kernel: Msp: MajorRevCode Version 0x0 
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) kernel: I2C arbitration error at address 0x88. 
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) kernel: Msp: error reading ROM ver. 
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) kernel: Msp: ROM Version 0x0 
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) kernel: Msp: ProductCode = 0x0 
Jan 1 00:03:15 (none) kernel: Msp: *** Unknown MSP product!!! ***0x0
```
Any ideas, please?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Try increasing the voltage on the 5V line by turning the blue pot on the PSU clockwise a few degrees. If you have a multimeter you can measure it via the spare molex from the unused drive and take it up to about 5.3V max.


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## AWT (Aug 25, 2005)

Thanks blindlemon, that appears to have done the trick.

The +5v supply was at 5.02v and I adjusted it to 5.25v - I wasn't brave enough to go as far as 5.3v! The +12v supply was at 11.86v and I think it ended up at 12.3v.

It still needed a warm boot to get sound working but I'm just happy (and grateful) to leave matters there. 

Incidentally, ISTR seeing someone advertising a Cachecard with new Silicondust software that cures sound problems. Does anyone have any more info on that?

Edit: D'oh, found it http://www.9thtee.com/tivocachecard.htm

*Now shipping CacheCard firmware version 2.2!
Changes between firmware rev 2.0 and rev 2.2:
- Eliminates the problem of loosing sound and/or video on some SA TiVo's.
- Eliminates voltage sag measured on some TiVo's.*

Is there a user upgrade to version 2.2?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Good stuff :up:

When did you get your cachecard? The 2.2 firmware fix came out a couple of years ago at least so you probably already have it....


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## AWT (Aug 25, 2005)

I bought it 2nd user about a year ago from a US seller on eBay. ISTR the date string on the splash screen at boot having "2005" in it.


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## qwiki (Feb 28, 2002)

I've had the no-sound problem for years and didn't relalise there was a fix until I found this old thread recently.

My cachecard has v2.0 in the lettering as part of the PCB trace and a white sticker saying v2.2 on it. The card was imported from 9th Tee many years ago by myself.

Today, I had the Tivo in bits to replace the 512MB memory module, which had failed some time ago. The new module works fine btw, but while I had the case open, I thought I'd try this fix for the audio.

The 5v line was showing 5.02v on the spare drive connector. So I turned it up to in increments (5.15v, 5.20v, 5.25v and finally 5.3v) and rebooted each time. Every time I had no audio from a cold boot and in the final 5.3v setting doing a warm restart failed to bring the audio back, even after 5 consecutive warm restarts. So, I set the voltage back down to 5.02v, cold booted and again got no audio (as expected) then warm restarted and back it came just like it always used to. I tried this sequence of cold and warm boots a second time and it was repeatable - no worse than before todays procedings, so on went the case and thats how I've left it.

Any suggestions as to how I might go about fixing this anoyance permanently?

Thanks in advance.


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

qwiki said:


> I've had the no-sound problem for years and didn't relalise there was a fix until I found this old thread recently.
> 
> My cachecard has v2.0 in the lettering as part of the PCB trace and a white sticker saying v2.2 on it. The card was imported from 9th Tee many years ago by myself.
> 
> ...


I think it was all down to a unstable 5volts at power on, for a few hundred microseconds, this caused the sound chip not to initilise, hang on power up?????

If you can get your hands on a new PSU, or try a friends, that appears to fix the problem.


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## qwiki (Feb 28, 2002)

6022tivo said:


> I think it was all down to a unstable 5volts at power on, for a few hundred microseconds, this caused the sound chip not to initilise, hang on power up?????
> 
> If you can get your hands on a new PSU, or try a friends, that appears to fix the problem.


Thanks for that.

Are new PSU's built to a different (higher?) spec, or is it just the internal tolerences that vary slightly between them which _'might'_ cure it?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

PSUs degrade as they get older and the big smoothing capacitors dry out. Eventually they go out of tolerance and/or get flaky and die. This happens a lot faster when they are in use 24x7 in a hot TiVo than in storage. 

The new PSUs available from various sources are all new, unused stock from the original Series 1 manufacturing run, so they're a few years old but have never been used. They are therefore much more likely to be within tolerance than the one that's been in your TiVo for the last 5-7 years or so.


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## qwiki (Feb 28, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> PSUs degrade as they get older and the big smoothing capacitors dry out. Eventually they go out of tolerance and/or get flaky and die. This happens a lot faster when they are in use 24x7 in a hot TiVo than in storage.
> 
> The new PSUs available from various sources are all new, unused stock from the original Series 1 manufacturing run, so they're a few years old but have never been used. They are therefore much more likely to be within tolerance than the one that's been in your TiVo for the last 5-7 years or so.


Thanks. That makes perfect sense. I guess I'll buy a new one shortly and give it a try. Can't hurt to have a spare anyway.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Somethings not right in this thread... where's Pete?


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

He has gone out for new year.. Yes, thats right.. I said gone out!!!.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

If one has a spare Tivo PSU or two would it be worth replacing the main large electrolytic capacitors with new ones and if space permits ones that can hold a greater charge?

Automan.


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## mikeyp (Dec 22, 2005)

Automan said:


> If one has a spare Tivo PSU or two would it be worth replacing the main large electrolytic capacitors with new ones and if space permits ones that can hold a greater charge?
> 
> Automan.


and would it not be possible to use capacitors of higher quality so they would last longer?


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

mikeyp said:


> and would it not be possible to use capacitors of higher quality so they would last longer?


I looked into doing this but....

- A new PSU was only £12
- You need to get 105°C rated capacitors (long life), as well as higher voltage if you can, which are often physically different (bigger) than normal 85°C capacitors (definition of life varies from manufacturer to manufacturer but can be as short as 1000hours to 30% capacity reduction @ 85°C and full voltage and specified ripple current, with doubling of life for each 10°C reduction, doubling of life for halving of applied voltage and reducing ripple current). 
- Also some of the capacitors are clearly not standard electrolytic capacitors, there are low ESR type (equivalent series resistance) and the ESR could be an important design value. I have heard of people replacing capacitors on PSUs and the capacitors exploding as they got too low an ESR (as they thought that would be better) and in fact the value of the ESR was part of the design.


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## Greyhawk68 (Jun 17, 2002)

Hey guys,

I have the no sound problem on a Series II. I only get the TiVo chirps and menu sounds, but no sounds from recorded programs or promotional ads from TiVo. Is this indicative of the problems you guys have outlined here in the thread?

Also, as a person with ZERO ability to rip apart my TiVo and solder pieces in place, is there anything I can do, or is this puppy set for the graveyard?

Thanks for the help,
Grey


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Greyhawk68 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have the no sound problem on a Series II. I only get the TiVo chirps and menu sounds, but no sounds from recorded programs or promotional ads from TiVo. Is this indicative of the problems you guys have outlined here in the thread?
> 
> ...


You might want to ask this question in one of the US forums - you've posted in the UK forum where TiVo only ever released Series 1 hardware so we have very little experience of Series 2 hardware in this country.


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## Podwin (Nov 5, 2002)

Hi I think I've found the answer to my problem, but I'd like to explain it because it's wierd.

I can hear Tivo's blips when using the remote. I can also hear sound from recorded programs.

I can hear sound when viewing the Sagem Freeview box via AUX, but when watching live TV in the normal Tivo manner there is no sound, yet the blips are heard when using the remote as I've mentioned.

Is this the same problem?

Martin


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## Podwin (Nov 5, 2002)

Hi

A warm reboot does fix it so it must be it, where can I get new PSUs from?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Yes, that's definitely the normal "no sound" problem 

Don't expect a new PSU to 100&#37; cure it though, as the problem can persist even after replacing the PSU. If you have a large drive with a cachecard it seems more likely to happen too, so the fault may not all be with your PSU.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

blindlemon said:


> Yes, that's definitely the normal "no sound" problem
> 
> Don't expect a new PSU to 100% cure it though, as the problem can persist even after replacing the PSU. If you have a large drive with a cachecard it seems more likely to happen too, so the fault may not all be with your PSU.


I have large drives and cachecards so anyone know of a higher rated replacement PSU?
Alternatively I could use a seperate PSU to power the hard drive on its own. Any thoughts?

It's not a big deal as I only need to reboot every few years


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

You could use any standard PC PSU for the drives, just make sure you have a common ground between the two.
I.e. 0V is the same on both. 

A wire from PSU metal case to tivo metal case should be enough.

Not sure how this affects the sound problem, as I don't have a tivo with that problem to test


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## geekspeak (Oct 1, 2002)

Regarding the power supply issue and ability to tweak the output has anyone considered or tested this to try and resolve the mode 0 white flashes issue?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Nice idea, but I think we can safely say that mode0 flashes are unrelated to voltage (stability) levels.


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## Podwin (Nov 5, 2002)

Hi, I've got 2 HDs and a cachecard, so it's not unexpected then!

Funny it's never happened to me before.

Still be nice to have a spare PSU on the shelf though.

Martin


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

If you do try an alternate psu make sure it is Energy Star 4 complaint which means it must be 80&#37;+ efficient.

Make your TiVo green 

Automan.


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## qwiki (Feb 28, 2002)

cyril said:


> ...Alternatively I could use a seperate PSU to power the hard drive on its own. Any thoughts?


I like the idea of this. I've tried a new PSU to cure the problem on mine, but I was unsuccessful (still, nice to have a spare PSU for a rainy day )

I was just thinking that I've got one of those external USB HDD adapters that you connect 2.5" or 3.5" drives to outside of the case for test purposes. It comes with a PSU for powering the larger 3.5" drives which has got the right molex connector and it's really small - ideal to mount inside the tivo, then tap a mains feed off the back of the PSU socket.

Hmmm? ... I'm liking this more and more. :up:


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## randap (Jan 21, 2003)

I've just replaced my Samsung 300GB drive with a new Hitachi 320GB drive, and now I'm getting no sound on reboot, even with the voltage upped to 5.3V.

I should have a new PSU to test soon, but I'm wondering if I should put my Samsung back in......

EDIT: OK, put the Samsung back in and sound is OK...... could this be drive related? Does the Hitachi need more juice? I might have the take the drives back - "Reason for return please sir?", "They don't work in my TiVo", "Hu?".....


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

This is quite common and is sometimes improved by a new PSU but not always. Some drives just pull too much power at startup. 

The safest option (if you're really paranoid about it) is to write a script that executes after every other reboot and forces another reboot. This will mean that after every power-on the TiVo will do one soft reboot which should fix the sound if it was missing. If it reboots again for any reason, it will do so twice, but that's something you will have to live with unless you can figure out how to detect that the TiVo has been powered-on rather than soft-rebooted.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Does it always show "Unknown MSP product" in the log if it is booting without sound ? 
I think it does, so a script would just need to for that and then reboot.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

mikerr said:


> Doesn't it show "Unknown MSP product" in the log if it is booting without sound, so a script would just need to for that and then rebooting.


I guess if you delete the log after a successful (with sound) boot. Otherwise you would be picking up errors from previous reboots


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## randap (Jan 21, 2003)

Mike / Steve,

Can't check logs at the mo (had to deactivate my port forwarding for my PS3 - another long story).....

But, soft/warm restarts make no difference with the Hitachi drive. Looks like I'll be taking them back.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

blindlemon said:


> I guess if you delete the log after a successful (with sound) boot. Otherwise you would be picking up errors from previous reboots


Checking the date/time on the log entry would solve that,

... are you going to write it or shall I ?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Be my guest - my tcl/bash scripting skills are very rudimentary 

But if somebody would write a C# shell for the TiVo I'd be cooking on gas... 

Edit: I guess that'd mean porting Vista or XP to the PPC and getting it to run on a 54mhz processor with 16mb of memory... could be a challenge...


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Here's the promised "reboot if no sound" script:

It checks the kernel logfile for the line "Unknown MSP Product" on the last bootup,
and reboots if it sees it.

It won't reboot if your tivo has been rebooted more than 5 times in the current hour,
just in case it would never restart with sound.

./nosound.tcl


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## Olly (Sep 29, 2001)

Would running this script possibly result in the \var partition being reinitialised due to repeated reboots?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

It shouldn't cause that, no. But you still should have a backup of /var anyway 

Tivo wipes the /var partition if it fails to bootup completely twice in succession,
- i.e if its filesystem check doesn't complete twice.

rc.sysinit.author runs after that point in the boot process.


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## gonzo69 (Jan 21, 2006)

Hi all,

The "no sound" problem has reappeared on my Tivo (it first happened just after I installed my Turbonet card approx. 1 year ago) but after at least 30 hard and soft reboots, it shows no sign of the sound coming back.

I therefore have what I hope is a simple question - if I purchased another Tivo, would I be able to rip out the old original drive, and replace it with my 120 Gb drive, together with my Turbonet card.

Is it that simple, or will I have to reconfigure anything. I am hoping not, because I have (had) it working just as I wanted, with a Digiguide connection so I can just right click on the program etc.

Cheers,

Gonzo


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

@mikerr

We've had overhead power line problems resulting in a several power outages that my UPS couldn't outlast. I've now got the no sound problem pretty consistently.
At some point I'll be brave and pull the TV stack apart to fiddle with the PSU but for now I assume I just binary FTP nosound.tcl into scripts and add

```
/var/hack/scripts/nosound.tcl &
```
 to rc.sysinit.author ?

Cheers

AMc


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## healeydave (Jun 4, 2003)

Hi,

Its Dave from tivoland here.

I know I don't frequent the forum much these days, so much so that many users don't even know we exist anymore heheh 

Anyway, I have a hardware repair that we can carry out that can cure the "no sound but recoverable with warm boot" problem about 80% of the time. 

I have never really heavily publicised it because its only around 80% effective. e.g. in some cases it doesn't work, but it doesn't make the problem any worse.

I would encourage users to go down the new PSU or tweak the PSU route first and if someone really wants it done as a last resort, it is an option.

Regs
Dave.


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## anyoneinracks (Jan 20, 2003)

I keep losing sound after I hadinstalled a cache card, but I am not sure if mine is the same problem. It will be OK, but then sound will disappear (not just after a reboot). Sometimes changing channels will make it reappear, sometimes a soft reboot, sometimes a hard reboot (or 3). Can't put my hands on my multimeters at the moment...


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

@anyoneinracks as you have network access then I heartily recommend installing the script in post #35 above. I've had it going for ages, I'm sure eventually I'll have to replace the PSU but as you can just install it without 'going under the hood' it's a worthwhile stop gap.
IIRC there were sound problems with some early cachecards and certain RAM - if you don't get anywhere with the script then try removing the RAM as a test. Threads are probably in the archives by now.


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## anyoneinracks (Jan 20, 2003)

Thanks - I'll give that a try, although I am not that keen on telling it to reboot of its own accord.
It is a new cache card, with supposedly 2.2 firmware


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## deesee (Nov 4, 2002)

I thought i had got onto a foreign forum, did not understand a word of it, better stick to the virgin forum where they are not so clever


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## anyoneinracks (Jan 20, 2003)

Its funny my posts always make perfect sense to me, even when they don't to anyone else.
Another funny about MY loss of sound is that it does it without the Tivo having been rebooted. I get the impresion that the "classic" loss of sound is a boot up problem.


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## SolidTechie (Dec 11, 2002)

I know it's an old thread, but I think it's appropriate.....

I think I am suffering from this issue with my "new" TiVo - however the slight difference is that after the power tripped out last night and was restored (so a cold boot) I got bongs, and previous recordings played sound without issue. Live TV and new recordings were devoid of sound... A restart (soft) did appear to fix the issue - although that may have been coincidence..

Is this the same issue as "nosound.tcl" is designed to fix?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Yep, that's the exact symptoms,

Apart from aging PSUs (replacing doesn't _always _fix it) 
- hitachi drives often make it worse, as do a cachecard and ram.


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## SolidTechie (Dec 11, 2002)

Oh Bums.

Looks like I'll have to commission the other spare...


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I used the nosound script for quite a while before I replaced the PSU. And that was because of something else I'd made a mess of. If you current Tivo is networked then its quick to try.


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## SolidTechie (Dec 11, 2002)

Yup - using it now - seems to be working fine.

I have a spare power supply in the loft somewhere, so I'll need to dig that out. In the meantime, I shall look to reconfigure the spare, with a cachecard & RAM from this dodgy TiVo - and I've ordered a Network card to use instead.


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## wonderboy (May 27, 2003)

I know this is an old thread, but we had power cuts over the last few days and this has been bugging me.

I'm using the image from altepg and I cannot get the nosound.tcl script to run. It simply returns "no such file or directory"...

I did find that tweaking the pot to LOWER the voltage rather than raise it seemed to help greatly here, as someone noted in this thread:-

http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/history/topic/150961-1.html

Just in case it helps anyone.


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