# Series2 DT - Dual Tuners & Ethernet For You...



## TiVoPony

Hi guys,

We've introduced a lot of boxes over the years - S1's, S2's, Nightlights, DVD players, DVD recorders, satellite boxes, UK, Taiwan, HD...the hardware team has kept very busy over the years.

It won't be long before you'll meet a new member of the family. It'll record two things at once. And it'll sport a spiffy ethernet port. I think you'll like it. 



More details very, very soon.

Get ready...

Pony


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## lwdupont

Looking forward to the info!!


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## cap

Ah, an official notification.

Finally the wondering will come to an end.


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## Puppy76

Yay! (Although realistically I think I need an S3 now even though I don't have an HDTV-the CW network is going to be ATSC only in my area this fall.)


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## gastrof

Puppy76 said:


> Yay! (Although realistically I think I need an S3 now even though I don't have an HDTV-the CW network is going to be ATSC only in my area this fall.)


Pony's post is about the series 2 with dual tuners, not the series 3.

As for the CW...

If you currently have a WB affiliate in your area, it's likely going to carry the CW. (In areas where there's both a UPN and a WB affiliate, it's usually the UPN channel that's ending up without a network.)

That includes the analog side as well.

Are you saying a whole new TV station is being launched, and is broadcasting in digital only, with no analog version?


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## Les_D

This will be a hit with my brothers family.

They only get basic cable and they would DIE for dual tuners!


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## Puppy76

gastrof said:


> Pony's post is about the series 2 with dual tuners, not the series 3.


Right, that's why I said realistically I think I need a Series 3. The Series "2.5" sounds like a GREAT piece of hardware, and I'm excited about it, but I think I really need to hold out for 3.



> As for the CW...
> 
> If you currently have a WB affiliate in your area, it's likely going to carry the CW. (In areas where there's both a UPN and a WB affiliate, it's usually the UPN channel that's ending up without a network.)
> 
> That includes the analog side as well.
> 
> Are you saying a whole new TV station is being launched, and is broadcasting in digital only, with no analog version?


In my area there is no broadcast WB station-it's a cable only "network" (which is pretty common). My UPN station is going to become a "My Network TV" station, and CW is going to be a substation of my ABC station, broadcast on ATSC only.

So in other words, I'm getting a 7th free network, but only on ATSC, not NTSC. That gives me another reason I should hold out for the Series 3.


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## colincd

Man,
I am eager for the Series 3, but need a new TIVO so as soon as I see this one pop up, I am jumping on it.. 
today?


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## mgar

Engaget has one!


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## jennifer

http://store.tivo.com/cart/cart_view.asp


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## andyf

jennifer said:


> http://store.tivo.com/cart/cart_view.asp


Got a better link, Jennifer? They won't let me see what's in your shopping cart.


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## jennifer

That's the only link, straight from an email they sent to me. I poked around but couldn't find any more info on that site.

I assumed it would show the item in my cart, but it doesn't. Hopefully TIVO will release info soon.


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## digitalfirefly

Current Tivo users should have gotten an email by now.


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## peteypete

The question is: Is it worth it to use a lifetime card on one of these babies, especially if I'm not planning on buying a HD tivo?

P

What's the price point?


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## sirfergy

The two 80 hour tivos i bought are getting returned tonight!!!! I can't wait to get two ( or three ) of these babies!


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## ZeoTiVo

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:


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## jennifer

$254 with one year or prepaid service.


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## sirfergy

Why isn't it online yet!!! I want to order now.


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## josephs911

Should we wait for the S3 or get this what's everyone elses throughts on this?


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## sirfergy

If you only have analog cable, get this. Since that's all I have, this is exactly what I need. No point in getting a S3.


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## sirfergy

The engadet review implies the rebate would be valid on these, is that true?


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## josephs911

Try this link:


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## Bierboy

digitalfirefly said:


> Current Tivo users should have gotten an email by now.


Nope.


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## josephs911




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## davezatz

digitalfirefly said:


> Current Tivo users should have gotten an email by now.


I haven't....


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## Sirshagg

WOO HOO!

Official news :up: :up: :up:


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## jsmeeker

TiVoPony said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> We've introduced a lot of boxes over the years - S1's, S2's, Nightlights, DVD players, DVD recorders, satellite boxes, UK, Taiwan, HD...the hardware team has kept very busy over the years.
> 
> It won't be long before you'll meet a new member of the family. It'll record two things at once. And it'll sport a spiffy ethernet port. I think you'll like it.
> 
> 
> 
> More details very, very soon.
> 
> Get ready...
> 
> Pony


It probably won't hold a candle to the introduction of TiVoShanan.


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## MikeMar

Can you get it w/o any of the pre-pay crap, just buy the box and get mds?


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## Dan203

Man if I didn't already have so many TiVos with lifetime I'd buy a couple of these in a second.  For now I'm just going to hold on to my single tuner S2 units and wait for the S3. However I may consider picking up one of these for my Mom.

Dan


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## BlackBetty

I hope the engadget article is true. They state the 40hr unit will be $99.99 after rebate. If this is true, I will be replacing both of my 200GB TiVo 540 units.


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## andyf

The price doesn't really cover the scenerio if you already have lifetime service on a box. It says they will lower your existing box to $6.95 per month, but my existing box is on lifetime.


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## cwoody222

No email here either 

Price sounds right. But I need my ReplayTV for show-sharing. Or else I'd dump the TiVo/Replay dual setup and just get this.


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## Dan203

BlackBetty said:


> I hope the engadget article is true. They state the 40hr unit will be $99.99 after rebate.


It's not! The current rebate specifically says....



> Valid only on TiVo Service Numbers (TSN) starting with 110, 130, 140, 230, 240, 264, 275, 540, 565, 590, 595.


These new units have TSNs that start with 649.

That being said the screen shots show that they're only charging $254 for an 80 hour unit with 1 year of service. One year of service is worth $155.40 so that makes the box only $99 without the need for a rebate.

Dan


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## rexdart

I know more information is coming but I'm just gonna HAVE to assume the thing is as upgradeable as all units are.

I'll be hitting NewEgg right after I place the order for this one....


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## mfrns0123

MikeMar said:


> Can you get it w/o any of the pre-pay crap, just buy the box and get mds?


I was wondering the same thing.......


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## BlackBetty

Dan203 said:


> It's not! The current rebate specifically says....
> 
> These new units have TSNs that start with 649.
> 
> That being said the screen shots show that they're only charging $254 for an 80 hour unit with 1 year of service. One year of service is worth $155.40 so that makes the box only $99 without the need for a rebate.
> 
> Dan


Maybe engadget has early word on a new $150 rebate that covers these boxes.


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## TiVoPony

Emails regarding the product are just starting to go out...don't fret if you haven't received one, we do love you. 

And the emails are obviously a bit different depending on your circumstance. It wouldn't make much sense for us to send an MSD-hook to someone who couldn't take advantage of it, right? 

Cheers,
Pony


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## Puppy76

Good! Basically $100 versus $70ish for the old 80 hour unit? That's very reasonable!

If I were getting one though, I'd get the 180 hour version. SO tempting, but I've got to hold out for S3. (And I probably won't have too many conflicts over the summer).


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## Bierboy

Puppy76 said:


> Good! Basically $100 versus $70ish for the old 80 hour unit? That's very reasonable!
> 
> If I were getting one though, I'd get the 180 hour version. SO tempting, but I've got to hold out for S3. (And I probably won't have too many conflicts over the summer).


I'm in the same boat as puppy...I'd love one of these DT units, but I'm a self-proclaimed HD junkie, so I'm waiting for the S3.


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## davezatz

So is it true these things will playback MPEG4? Anything different in software version 7.2.5?


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## rexdart

wow, after looking at the pictures on Engadget, I'm suddenly confused. There's only one "in" cable jack on the back.

so this thing isn't meant for people who don't use a cable box? (coax for basic channels, s-video for the cable box)

looks like I'll not be buying one after all (and yes, I still watch enough even without digital cable to benefit from two tuners)


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## BlackBetty

I am loving the fact it has integrated Ethernet!!!!


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## lajohn27

rexdart said:


> wow, after looking at the pictures on Engadget, I'm suddenly confused. There's only one "in" cable jack on the back.


Splits that one cable input internally. You don't need two cable-ins to have dual tuner on analog cable.

This box WILL record from two analog cable channels with that one input.

J


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## TiVoPony

rexdart said:


> wow, after looking at the pictures on Engadget, I'm suddenly confused. There's only one "in" cable jack on the back.
> 
> so this thing isn't meant for people who don't use a cable box? (coax for basic channels, s-video for the cable box)
> 
> looks like I'll not be buying one after all (and yes, I still watch enough even without digital cable to benefit from two tuners)


Rexdart,

The RF cable-in is split internally to to the two tuners. If you don't use a cable box this is the *perfect* DVR for you. Only one coax connection required, record two analog cable channels at once. 

Pony


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## MikeMar

TiVoPony said:


> Rexdart,
> 
> The RF cable-in is split internally to to the two tuners. If you don't use a cable box this is the *perfect* DVR for you. Only one coax connection required, record two analog cable channels at once.
> 
> Pony


SO if our cable REQUIRES a cablebox for majority of the stations, this box is kinda pointless then huh?


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## mtchamp

The DT TiVo has an internal analog splitter. If you don't use a digital box, all you need to do is hook up a sinlge coax cable and the TiVo will tune 2 channels at once. Easy as pie!


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## TiVoPony

davezatz said:


> So is it true these things will playback MPEG4?


I read that rumor floating around the forum as well. The Series2 systems support MPEG2. That's one of the things that makes them Series2.

Cheers,
Pony


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## lajohn27

Well you can record one channel off the analog input AND one off the digital input at teh same time.

In most cases - if not all - the major networks - CBS,ABC,NBC,FOX are located on the analog grouping.. even if they are duplicated on the digital channels. 

However, if you're looking to record from HBO and SHOWTIME at the same time... may I recommend something in a DirecTIVO.


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## ZeoTiVo

Dan203 said:


> It's not! The current rebate specifically says....
> 
> These new units have TSNs that start with 649.
> 
> That being said the screen shots show that they're only charging $254 for an 80 hour unit with 1 year of service. One year of service is worth $155.40 so that makes the box only $99 without the need for a rebate.
> 
> Dan


yes but with MSD it would be much less for me in the first year.
I would like to buy a box outright for 99$ - be happy to agree to a year of service or pay 150$ penalty - heck I imagine I will use this for two years or so when HD is finally commonplace.


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## sirfergy

Yeah, for those of us that want two of these, it'd be nice to buy w/o the 1 year prepaid.


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## SullyND

It's funny, my Amazon wishlist now shows an image of the DT, but still lists it as " 
This title is no longer available"


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## gonzotek

MikeMar said:


> SO if our cable REQUIRES a cablebox for majority of the stations, this box is kinda pointless then huh?


Yes, although it would still allow you to record the majority of things on the digital box->TiVo route, and use the second tuner for those stations that do come in the clear (either via antenna or analog in). In my area, 2-99 are still analog, and still make up the majority of my recording slots.


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## TiVoPony

MikeMar said:


> SO if our cable REQUIRES a cablebox for majority of the stations, this box is kinda pointless then huh?


Depends on what 'a majority' is, and what you like to watch.

Around here the digital channels are mostly premium channels (or stuff I'm not that into...except BBCA). The premium stuff is repeated adnauseum. If there's a conflict I can grab the movie again the next day (or later that same night). Conflicts tend to be less of an issue on the premium/digital channels.

The basic cable lineup tends to have lots of programming that's only on once a week (think of any of the primetime lineups from Fox, NBC, CBS, ABC...). That's where conflicts tend to pop up again and again and again (think 24 vs. Apprentice). No problem there - the DT can record two basic channels at the same time.

The box can record one digital channel (from the cable/sat box) and one analog channel (from a straight coax cable feed) simultaneously.

Or two basic channels simultaneously.

Pony


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## lajohn27

Pony:

Is that tuner configuration set in Guided Setup - Two analog or 1 analog + 1 STB input?

Or ?


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## MikeMar

gonzotek said:


> Yes, although it would still allow you to record the majority of things on the digital box->TiVo route, and use the second tuner for those stations that do come in the clear (either via antenna or analog in). In my area, 2-99 are still analog, and still make up the majority of my recording slots.


WHere I am now, close to boston, w/o a cable box, you get NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX and like 10 other stations, no ESPN, or even NESN for baseball games. But I am moving in the summer away from the city, so different provider, so not sure how that works for them.

But if i stayed in boston, the DT would be crap for me


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## MikeMar

TiVoPony said:


> Depends on what 'a majority' is, and what you like to watch.
> 
> Around here the digital channels are mostly premium channels (or stuff I'm not that into...except BBCA). The premium stuff is repeated adnauseum. If there's a conflict I can grab the movie again the next day (or later that same night). Conflicts tend to be less of an issue on the premium/digital channels.
> 
> The basic cable lineup tends to have lots of programming that's only on once a week (think of any of the primetime lineups from Fox, NBC, CBS, ABC...). That's where conflicts tend to pop up again and again and again (think 24 vs. Apprentice). No problem there - the DT can record two basic channels at the same time.
> 
> The box can record one digital channel (from the cable/sat box) and one analog channel (from a straight coax cable feed) simultaneously.
> 
> Or two basic channels simultaneously.
> 
> Pony


Gotcha, so it would still have to go through the cable box for the digital parts then huh.


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## ZeoTiVo

MikeMar said:


> Gotcha, so it would still have to go through the cable box for the digital parts then huh.


from the stuff that was online at buy.com for a while
it showed the analog cable going in adn then composite or s-video from the cable box if you had one. plus the ONE ir blaster or serial connection to the one cable box to control it


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## chubb

Does this box support recording from (1) satellite input and (1) analog cable input at the same time? You'd be surprised at the number of people out there who have Satellite TV and Cable Internet. This would be a good way to make use of the analog Cable feed that comes with the Internet connection, while still using your Satellite feed for the majority of viewing.

The current Series 2 Tivo allows both feeds to come in (analog cable and satellite) and even intersperses the channels (i.e. Channel 4 (cab), Channel 4 (sat)), the only downside is you can't record two things at once.

Maybe the Series 2 DT can?

Oh, and BTW... is there any deal for us Lifetime customers?


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## chubb

Sorry... it took so long for me to type my post that it seems TivoPony has answered my question a few posts before this one...



chubb said:


> Does this box support recording from (1) satellite input and (1) analog cable input at the same time? You'd be surprised at the number of people out there who have Satellite TV and Cable Internet. This would be a good way to make use of the analog Cable feed that comes with the Internet connection, while still using your Satellite feed for the majority of viewing.
> 
> The current Series 2 Tivo allows both feeds to come in (analog cable and satellite) and even intersperses the channels (i.e. Channel 4 (cab), Channel 4 (sat)), the only downside is you can't record two things at once.
> 
> Maybe the Series 2 DT can?
> 
> Oh, and BTW... is there any deal for us Lifetime customers?


Let me now modify my question to ask how the box prioritizes shows with the scenario above (1 sat/1 analog cable).

Let's say I have two shows to record at the same time, both from channels that are available on Sat or Analog Cable (i.e. The Unit/Veronica Mars). Which tuner would the Tivo choose for which show and how can we prioritize this? What I am getting at is that my DirecTV signal has better PQ than my analog Adelphia signal, and whenever there is a two-recordings-at-once scenario, I would like one of the shows to be prioritized on the DirecTV signal rather than the analog signal. Is this possible or is this already implemented and we just need to remember that the higher Season Pass priority will get the Digital signal first?


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## bpurcell

Still waiting for info on the incentive for those already with Series 2 lifetime...

What do you think would be a good deal for lifetime people?


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## TiVoPony

lajohn27 said:


> Pony:
> 
> Is that tuner configuration set in Guided Setup - Two analog or 1 analog + 1 STB input?
> 
> Or ?


You don't need to switch configurations to get dual basic.

The DVR will ask you during setup if you're going to connect a cable/sat settop box up as one of the inputs. Once you've done that the DT DVR will be able to record either one digital + one analog, or two analog. No reconfiguring necessary.

Pony


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## chubb

bpurcell said:


> Still waiting for info on the incentive for those already with Series 2 lifetime...
> 
> What do you think would be a good deal for lifetime people?


How about the ability to purchase lifetime on the new box while everyone else (non-lifetime) needs to pay monthly?  Of course this would be a limited-time early-adopters/loyal customers incentive...


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## TiVoPony

bpurcell said:


> Still waiting for info on the incentive for those already with Series 2 lifetime...


Product Lifetime is gone, it's not available any longer.

You can enjoy your existing Series2 with lifetime, or sell it (likely for a nice profit) and use part of the proceeds to pick up a Series2 DT.

Cheers,
Pony


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## b3ar

Any planned upgrade path to S3 Tivos from this? I've been holding out for a SA Tivo for just this sort of a thing, but with the S3 theoretically coming out "soon", I'd hate to get six months into a contract and have to pay double.

Later,
Bill


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## bpurcell

TiVoPony said:


> Product Lifetime is gone, it's not available any longer.
> 
> You can enjoy your existing Series2 with lifetime, or sell it (likely for a nice profit) and use part of the proceeds to pick up a Series2 DT.


I know lifetime is gone, but since MSD has an incentive, I was hoping lifetimers would also get an incentive. I'm not expecting what chubb said (although that would get me to buy it without a second glance), but some sort of loyalty deal would be nice.

I think 2 tuners is a great idea, but I need a carrot-and-stick to get me as an early adopter.


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## jlb

Man.....I'm torn. 

I don't have HD. For that matter, I only have basic (lifeline) cable without a box. Part of me wants to hold out for the S3. I would consider buying the S3, even if I didn't have HD, as I expect to get it within a few years.

On the other side, though, I have two 40-hour S2s on monthly service. So, right now, I pay $19.90 for my two tuners. In year 1, the 80-hour S2-DT would cost me only $21.16 per month (based on the $254 pre-pay number). After the year, when I would call, I'd be back to only $12.95 for the DT, as opposed to the $19.90 for the 2 S2s.

If I thought I would still be at least 2 years away from getting HD, then this might make sense for me...who knows.


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## jsmeeker

jlb said:


> Man.....I'm torn.
> 
> I don't have HD. For that matter, I only have basic (lifeline) cable without a box. Part of me wants to hold out for the S3. I would consider buying the S3, even if I didn't have HD, as I expect to get it within a few years.


Really? Why would you buy a Series 3 box if you don't have HD and only have life line (analog) cable? What would you get with it that you can't get with the Series 2 DT?


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## GBaz

From engadget...


> expect to pony up $199.99 for the 180-hour TCD649180, or $99.99 for the 80-hour TCD649080, both after $150 rebate and service activation.


PONY!!!


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## jlb

jsmeeker said:


> Really? Why would you buy a Series 3 box if you don't have HD and only have life line (analog) cable? What would you get with it that you can't get with the Series 2 DT?


Smeek, I would get it if my family decided together that we were going to get a new HD TV, which would also be accompanied by an upgrade in service. But that upgrade in service is the curveball for us. Right now, the S2-DT makes sense. I would just have to properly position this for the WAF.


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## davezatz

jsmeeker said:


> Really? Why would you buy a Series 3 box if you don't have HD and only have life line (analog) cable? What would you get with it that you can't get with the Series 2 DT?


MPEG4 movie downloads?  External hard drive storage? Groovy (literally new remote)? LCD/OLED display? And if they ever did decide to upgrade their cable services, you just pop a cable card in...


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## jsmeeker

jlb said:


> Smeek, I would get it if my family decided together that we were going to get a new HD TV, which would also be accompanied by an upgrade in service.


ahh.. OK. I just thought you meant since you didn't have it now and didn't mention plans for getting HD, that you didn't actually have plans to, but would buy the series 3 anyway.


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## cforrest

Here is the press release that came out at 4pm EDT!

*TiVo Announces First Standalone Dual Tuner Product, the TiVo Series2 DT DVR*

Record Two Shows At Once, Built-In Ethernet for Easy Networking and Refreshed Upscale Look

ALVISO, Calif., April 25, 2006 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- TiVo, the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs), announced today the launch of the TiVo(R) Series2(TM) DT DVR. Available at retail beginning May 1, the TiVo Series2 DT is the first standalone dual tuner DVR with the award-winning TiVo(R) service and features.

The TiVo Series2 DT DVR is optimized for cable households, allowing you to record two shows at once, so now you never have to miss any of your favorite shows -- even if they're on at the same time. The TiVo Series2 DT DVR also incorporates built-in Ethernet and USB ports, making it easier than ever to add the TiVo box to the home network.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Sto...72-6103D2475EB6}&siteid=mktw&sid=157328&symb=


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## Bierboy

Just got my e-mail....woot! And, here's the "official" TiVo news release, straight off their Web site...



> 04/25/2006
> 
> TiVo Announces First Standalone Dual Tuner Product, the TiVo Series2 DT DVR
> 
> Record Two Shows At Once, Built-In Ethernet for Easy Networking and Refreshed Upscale Look
> 
> Alviso, CA -- April 25, 2006  TiVo, the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs), announced today the launch of the TiVo® Series2 DT DVR. Available at retail beginning May 1, the TiVo Series2 DT is the first standalone dual tuner DVR with the award-winning TiVo® service and features.
> 
> The TiVo Series2 DT DVR is optimized for cable households, allowing you to record two shows at once, so now you never have to miss any of your favorite shows  even if they're on at the same time. The TiVo Series2 DT DVR also incorporates built-in Ethernet and USB ports, making it easier than ever to add the TiVo box to the home network.
> 
> "We've been hearing from our subscribers that they wanted a TiVo DVR that could record two shows at once," said Jim Denney , Vice President of Product Marketing at TiVo. "With the TiVo Series2 DT DVR, we've delivered that capability to our customers at a very affordable price."
> 
> "We are excited to bring the new TiVo Series2 DT DVR into our stores," said Rick Bickford, Merchandise Manager at Circuit City . "TiVo is one of our most well-loved brands and we're confident that the feature enhancements and low price point are going to make the TiVo Series2 DT DVR a big hit."
> 
> The TiVo Series2 DT DVR will join the existing TiVo product line, and is available in an 80-hour model priced at just $99.99, after rebate and service activation. It will also be available at tivo.com bundled with the TiVo service.
> 
> Exclusive TiVo service features will be available on the TiVo Series2 DT DVR including:
> 
> * TiVoToGo Transfers: Take your favorite shows with you on the road by transferring them to a laptop or select portable players.
> * TiVo Online Scheduling: Schedule recordings from the office or on the road from anywhere you can access the Internet.
> * TiVo Online Services: Broadband connected Series2 subscribers can view both their own photo slideshows and those shared by friends with Yahoo! Photos, and check local weather and traffic from Yahoo!. Additionally, subscribers can browse and buy movie tickets from Fandango, discover new music on Live365, and listen to entertaining podcasts.
> * Coming Soon: TiVo continually updates the TiVo service with new features and capabilities. In the coming months, TiVo users will be able to program their TiVo box to record programs directly from select Verizon cell phones. And by mid-year, users will welcome TiVo KidZone into their home. TiVo KidZone will give parents the power to easily make sure that the television programming their children watch meets their personal family standards.
> 
> The TiVo Series2 DT DVR will be available beginning May 1, 2006 at retailers including Circuit City , Best Buy, and Amazon.com, and online at www.tivo.com.


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## ah30k

The press release says $99 with rebate and 1 yr activation!


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## TiVoPony

ah30k said:


> The press release says $99 with rebate and 1 yr activation!


At tivo.com you'll only find the product offered as a bundle with one year of service. No rebates required though...

Pony


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## Figaro

Why does this make me think that the Series 3 is falling way behind schedule?


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## Bierboy

Figaro said:


> Why does this make me think that the Series 3 is falling way behind schedule?


Because you're a "glass half-empty" kinda person?....


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## BlackBetty

$99.99 after rebate!!!! Time to find myself a great price on a 300GB or 400GB Seagate drive.


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## Dan203

Figaro said:


> Why does this make me think that the Series 3 is falling way behind schedule?


I have no idea, because these two unit have nothing to do with one another. One is targeted at the low end, cable only, crowd. The other is targeted at the high end HDTV market.

Dan


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## TiVoPony

Figaro said:


> Why does this make me think that the Series 3 is falling way behind schedule?


To me it indicates a 'glass half empty' person. 

Don't fret!

Second half.

If you're into Series3. But the DT is sweet. And available. 

Pony


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## modnar

Very cool. I'm thinking about getting one, but I may wait a bit to see if a 140 hour model is available in the near future.

:up: :up:


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## asiangal

So if we don't want to go for their online 1-year prepaid package deal...we can just buy a new TiVo Series2 DT DVR at a retailer, and then sign up for the $12.95 monthly service, right?


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## davezatz

Dan203 said:


> It sounds like TiVo is doing a sort of "instant rebate" for units bought with bundle service, but planning on using an old fashion mail-in rebate for units bought at retail.


Maybe... and/or maybe these will eventually replace the 80 hour bundle pricing dealio? And once those 80 hour units are gone (they are going, aren't they??) maybe the prices on these will change?



TiVoPony said:


> But the DT is sweet. And available.


If you can't love the one you want, love the one you're with?


----------



## Figaro

well I just see it as a stop gap option, and one that wouldn't work well for me. Without a cable box I can't get jack from my provider. With the exception of the a couple of Fox shows, every thing we watch is on "Digital" Channels so this wouldn't help much.


----------



## Bierboy

TiVoPony said:


> To me it indicates a 'glass half empty' person. ...


Hey....a Pony smeek!


----------



## jsmeeker

Bierboy said:


> Hey....a Pony smeek!


hmmm 3 minute gap.. The board is running a little slow right now.

I'll issue a ruling and say "No Smeek". Both were typed at essentially the same time"


----------



## Bierboy

jsmeeker said:


> hmmm 3 minute gap.. The board is running a little slow right now.
> 
> I'll issue a ruling and say "No Smeek". Both were typed at essentially the same time"


I shall abide by King Smeeker's ruling, then!


----------



## ZeoTiVo

TiVoPony said:


> If you're into Series3. But the DT is sweet. And available.
> 
> Pony


well rather than a blind date  can you say when these will be available at retail to buy adn then we do our own MSD ?


----------



## sirfergy

The press release says 5/1.


----------



## TiVoPony

Bierboy said:


> Hey....a Pony smeek!


Someone stopped by the office while I was typing...by the time I'd posted that other post had snuck in. It wasn't there when I read! Doesn't count! 

Pony


----------



## Einselen

Tricky timing on the press release. 1 min after the market closes. Should be fun to watch TiVo stock tomorrow as it opens.


----------



## MEngland

> It says they will lower your existing box to $6.95 per month, but my existing box is on lifetime.


So the question is, if you get the DT box, and you already have Lifetime on an existing box, is the DT going to be $6.95?

I know the answer is NO if you buy the DT from Tivo.com - they will only sell bundled units. So will the DT be available unbundled? Are the Amazon prices we've seen correct? Can you get a rebate to lower the price of the box for ~$100 for the 80 hour unit if you buy from Amazon or buy.com?

AND... What is the launch date?!?


----------



## ZeoTiVo

TiVoPony said:


> Someone stopped by the office while I was typing...by the time I'd posted that other post had snuck in. It wasn't there when I read! Doesn't count!
> 
> Pony


yes but now you smeeked Smeeker saying it was not a smeek.

say that real fast


----------



## sirfergy

If I have a S1 with lifetime, do I qualify for MSD?


----------



## cconk01

Man oh man..... This has gotten me all excited in ways i cannot express. I will be waiting for the S2 (or whatever it will be called) even though i do not have a HD tv.... I find the Cable Card worth the wait.... So excited!


----------



## Bierboy

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes but now you smeeked Smeeker saying it was not a smeek.
> 
> say that real fast


WOW...a double-Pony smeek, one of which actually wasn't a smeek!!


----------



## ZeoTiVo

sirfergy said:


> If I have a S1 with lifetime, do I qualify for MSD?


Yes - any other SA TiVo with lifetime or for which you pay the 12.95 monthly service or a bundled TiVo will qualify you for the MSD

6.95 a month for two tuners is pretty darn awesome :up:


----------



## 1283

Einselen said:


> Tricky timing on the press release. 1 min after the market closes. Should be fun to watch TiVo stock tomorrow as it opens.


Press releases are usually done before or after the market hours. Nothing unusual about it.


----------



## davezatz

c3 said:


> Press releases are usually done before or after the market hours. Nothing unusual about it.


In my experience, I've found them pretty well distributed through-out the day, though skewing towards morning (6AM - noon)... and Tuesdays are usually busiest. The afterhours press releases are usually bad news or financial matters, like restating earnings or quaterly results.



TiVoPony said:


> I read that rumor floating around the forum as well. The Series2 systems support MPEG2. That's one of the things that makes them Series2.


On one hand, that's good news... I won't have to fund a bounty for close-up pictures of the internals/decoding chips.


----------



## doors1963

I want to make sure I understand everything before I purchase this thing, but I think I understand . . . 

If I can get channels 1-140 without a cable box and then 141-225 with a cable box, I can record (if TiVo is hooked up to the cable box)
1) CAN record two programs at the same time on channels 1-140
2) CAN record a program between 1-140 and one program in the 141-225 range
3) CAN'T record 2 programs on 141-225
4) CAN watch a program live while recording another as long as the live show and recorded show aren't both in the 141-225 range
5) CAN buy an 80 hour unit for $254, which includes a year of service, so basically the unit is costing me $100 . . and this is the only TiVo I have to have active . . I can sell my Toshiba S2 unit I am using now?


----------



## m_jonis

Well, it's nice in one way, but not in another.

Dual tuner, but sort of.

If you have digital cable and were hoping to get rid of it (and probably your monthly STB rental fee), no soup for you.

Only "dual" tuner in the sense that the 2nd tuner is analog only. The first tuner can do "digital" provided you have a STB.

So, you still need to rent your STB for like $8-10/month and then pay more for another Tivo.

From a competitive standpoint, most people are better off (price-wise) just using their cable company DVR that's $10/month which (at least here) includes the STB which has DUAL DIGIAL tuners.

Don't get me wrong, Tivo is much better (in features) that TW DVR (I've not use the Motrola Comcast or Verizon boxes).

I was so hoping the series 2 would have dual tuner via Cable card or at least one cable card slot.

Guess I'll have to wait until years end for the Series 3


----------



## Bierboy

doors1963 said:


> I want to make sure I understand everything before I purchase this thing, but I think I understand . . .
> 
> If I can get channels 1-140 without a cable box and then 141-225 with a cable box, I can record (if TiVo is hooked up to the cable box)
> 1) CAN record two programs at the same time on channels 1-140
> 2) CAN record a program between 1-140 and one program in the 141-225 range
> 3) CAN'T record 2 programs on 141-225
> 4) CAN watch a program live while recording another as long as the live show and recorded show aren't both in the 141-225 range
> 5) CAN buy an 80 hour unit for $254, which includes a year of service, so basically the unit is costing me $100


1-Yes
2-Yes
3-Yes
4-Yes
5-Yes, minus any possible shipping and/or taxes (and if you don't count the cost of monthly service as part of the unit, which apparently you aren't -- and you shouldn't have any taxes...don't know about shipping. I've never ordered anything directly from TiVo)


----------



## Einselen

c3 said:


> Press releases are usually done before or after the market hours. Nothing unusual about it.


Not trying to say there is anything too unusual about having the press release after the market closes. I am just saying that because of it after hours the market has not had a chance to respond, if it will at all, and that it will be interesting to see how it does respond when the market opens back up tomorrow morning. I have just been talking with a friend about buying some TiVo stock so we are trying to speculate how this will effect tomorrow morning.


----------



## lajohn27

Pony thanks for the clarification on no reconfiguring required.. That's awesome.

J


----------



## bpurcell

My question is whether there will be option for 2 or 3 year pre-pay? If I buy one, I know I'll own it for more than a year and would like to get the appropriate discount. One year would be too short for me.


----------



## 1283

What's the advantage of announcing this today instead of 5/1, when the product will actually be available? Wouldn't it cut into this quarter's single-tuner sales?


----------



## davezatz

c3 said:


> What's the advantage of announcing this today instead of 5/1, when the product will actually be available? Wouldn't it cut into this quarter's single-tuner sales?


Sounds like it is available now through TiVo.com and other retailers beginning 5/1...?


----------



## ZeoTiVo

m_jonis said:


> I was so hoping the series 2 would have dual tuner via Cable card or at least one cable card slot.
> 
> Guess I'll have to wait until years end for the Series 3


why should this have cable card? This unit is aimed squarely at the 40% or so of the cable market taht is analog. That includes me as I see no use for digital tier and would only go digital for HD which I can gladly wait on. If I want HD I rent the DVD 

and for you in the other part of the market that is digital, the S3 is indeed the correct choice.


----------



## harrigill

How does the DT connect to cable? My current system has cable coming into cable (Comcast) box, then into TiVo unit. The cable box has only one tuner, and controls access to premium channels, etc.


----------



## 1283

davezatz said:


> Sounds like it is available now through TiVo.com and other retailers beginning 5/1...?


It's not available for the general public at tivo.com (at least not now). Only through the link that TiVo emailed out for "early release".


----------



## jmace57

cconk01 said:


> Man oh man..... This has gotten me all excited in ways i cannot express.


Thanks for NOT sharing!! 

Jim


----------



## bpurcell

c3 said:


> Wouldn't it cut into this quarter's single-tuner sales?


The first quarter ended on March 31st, so both April and May are in the second quarter. Therefore, it won't cause a skew in sales for the quarter. Plus we're only talking 5 days here.


----------



## 1283

Nope. TiVo's fiscal quarter ends this month.

Maybe Tivo already has "enough" sales this quarter, so pushing some sales into next quarter may actually be better.


----------



## Einselen

c3 said:


> Nope. TiVo's fiscal quarter ends this month.
> 
> Maybe Tivo already has "enough" sales this quarter, so pushing some sales into next quarter may actually be better.


Also not to mention the $150 rebate is still going on until the 30th. Right now at CompUSA you can get the 40 Hour FAR or the 80 HR for $50 AR.

As far as the DT we know you can get it for "$99" through TiVo but have to sign up for year service and rumor has it you can get it for $99 AR at retail stores.


----------



## Jonathan_S

doors1963 said:


> I want to make sure I understand everything before I purchase this thing, but I think I understand . . .
> 
> If I can get channels 1-140 without a cable box and then 141-225 with a cable box, I can record (if TiVo is hooked up to the cable box)
> 1) CAN record two programs at the same time on channels 1-140
> [...]


Side note. Current TiVo internal tuners only go to chan 99. This may or may not have changed with this new dual tuner unit, however it is something to keep in mind.


----------



## ab3tx

What about two separate lineups for each of the internal tuners? Both lineups are already in the Tribune data and already selectable by S2ST TiVos.


----------



## SullyND

m_jonis said:


> From a competitive standpoint, most people are better off (price-wise) just using their cable company DVR that's $10/month which (at least here) includes the STB which has DUAL DIGIAL tuners.


That's only if you have digital cable. Many people do not have digital cable. I do not have, and will not have, digital cable. The DT is perfect for me, and will cost substantially less than getting a DVR from Crimecast.


----------



## m_jonis

ZeoTiVo said:


> why should this have cable card? This unit is aimed squarely at the 40% or so of the cable market taht is analog. That includes me as I see no use for digital tier and would only go digital for HD which I can gladly wait on. If I want HD I rent the DVD
> 
> and for you in the other part of the market that is digital, the S3 is indeed the correct choice.


I think it would better position the DT for "future proofing" if they at least could use a cable card.

Most reports I've seen indicate that cable companies are moving as many of their channels to "digital" (so you have to rent their STB) as possible. In some markets you can get like 15 channels (ooh) without a STB. (but I'm not privy to what market Tivo is aiming for with this DT unit). Compared against a cable box, I think most people will take their cable companies DVR, ("true" dual tuners), so I just think it would've been in Tivo's best interest to have a more "apples to apples" comparison to compete against it.

Personally I think Tivo has better software, but dual tuners has been its achilles heel and with this unit, I think it still is.

(and if you think HD is "equivalent to DVD" you've obviously never watched 720p or 1080i (compared to 420p) on a widescreen HDTV--meaning:

I've been there and done that. When DVD first came out, I was like all "ooh" makes regular VCR look like doo-doo. But let me tell you, when I saw 720p and 1080i on HDTV, it makes the DVD look like doo-doo.


----------



## Dan203

harrigill said:


> How does the DT connect to cable? My current system has cable coming into cable (Comcast) box, then into TiVo unit. The cable box has only one tuner, and controls access to premium channels, etc.


You would split the cable before the cable box. Then run one leg directly to the TiVo and the other leg to cable box. Then connect the cable box to the TiVo using RCA or S-Video cables. This will allow you to record one premium channel and one analog channel, or two analog channels, at the same time.

Dan


----------



## dwarner

1. Watching on tuner 1, with more than 5 minutes buffered.
2. Tuner 2 is not recording a scheduled or suggested show.

When you change channels, it switches to tuner 2, and keeps recording the original show on tuner 1. 

If you return to the tuner 1 channel, it switches back to tuner 1.


For the ST models, I'd still like to have it warn me if I'm about to lose more than 5 minutes of buffer, with a second press to accept the loss.


----------



## Figaro

Dan203 said:


> You would split the cable before the cable box. Then run one leg directly to the TiVo and the other leg to cable box. Then connect the cable box to the TiVo using RCA or S-Video cables. This will allow you to record one premium channel and one analog channel, or two analog channels, at the same time.
> 
> Dan


Does the set up for the analog line know that the digital channels are not available?


----------



## Dan203

dwarner said:


> 1. Watching on tuner 1, with more than 5 minutes buffered.
> 2. Tuner 2 is not recording a scheduled or suggested show.
> 
> When you change channels, it switches to tuner 2, and keeps recording the original show on tuner 1.
> 
> If you return to the tuner 1 channel, it switches back to tuner 1.
> 
> For the ST models, I'd still like to have it warn me if I'm about to lose more than 5 minutes of buffer, with a second press to accept the loss.


If you want to preserve the buffer simply pause tuner #1, press the live TV button to switch to tuner #2 and then proceed to change the channel to whatever you want. When you want to go back to tuner #1 simply press the live TV button again and you be right where you paused it.

Dan


----------



## MEngland

What about Lifetime?

It's been confirmed that you can freely transfer lifetime within the first 30 days (even between different models of TiVo). Since the last Lifetime subs were acquired around 15-Apr-06 (I got one that day), can these be transferred to the new S2DT? There would seem to be a window of up to two weeks here...


----------



## Ben_Jamin75

What about season passes on "basic" channels..... For example for me, my NBC is 13 with a box, and 8 without a box. Currently I record everything via cablebox.

If I set-up a season pass for a NBC show as "13" and have a confilct with recording something off HBO (300), will the box know it can record it with the analog tuner on 8? 

Would I have to set-up all season passes possible via basic, avoiding using the cable box all together except when actually needed?


----------



## rexdart

TiVoPony said:


> Rexdart,
> 
> The RF cable-in is split internally to to the two tuners. If you don't use a cable box this is the *perfect* DVR for you. Only one coax connection required, record two analog cable channels at once.
> 
> Pony


Hi everyone. *cough* sorry, I'm a little nervous, this is my first one of these.

*sigh*

*cough*

umm, my name is Scott, and I'm a moron.

so what is step 1 anyway?



as an aside...I've been gone awhile...is it my imagination or is there less Pony than there used to be?

what's up with that?


----------



## rem

the following is from tivo's knowledge base:


Code:


What does it mean to be "eligible" for the Multi-Service Discount?
In order to be eligible for the discounted monthly service, all TiVo® subscriptions must be registered to the same account at tivo.com and must be dialing in/connecting from the same service address. You must also have one TiVo box paying the regular monthly service only fee of $12.95, annual, prepaid or paid in full with product lifetime service and payment made directly with TiVo (as opposed to a third party service provider such as DIRECTV), or a TiVo Package. For instance, DIRECTV DVRs with the TiVo service are ineligible to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT or to be a qualifying subscription.More information. While TiVo Packages are not eligible for MSD discounts, they can serve as qualifying subscriptions to allow other eligible TiVo subscriptions receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT, excluding Product Lifetime Subscriptions. For example, if you purchase a TiVo package at $19.95/month and already have a TiVo box at the "service-only" rate of $12.95/month, we will discount your "service only" monthly fee of $12.95 to $6.95, as long as your TiVo Package box is activated. [B]However, if you have one active TiVo box that was activated using a product lifetime subscription and you subsequently purchase a TiVo package at $19.95/month, you do NOT qualify for MSD pricing.[/B]

i have two s2 boxes with lifetime. so if i buy this dual-tuner package, i have to pay the full $254 (one year service included). i get that. but the bolded statement doesn't say anything about the dual-tuner qualifying for msd after the one-year commitment.

can someone clarify?


----------



## mfrns0123

MEngland said:


> So the question is, if you get the DT box, and you already have Lifetime on an existing box, is the DT going to be $6.95?
> 
> I know the answer is NO if you buy the DT from Tivo.com - they will only sell bundled units. So will the DT be available unbundled? Are the Amazon prices we've seen correct? Can you get a rebate to lower the price of the box for ~$100 for the 80 hour unit if you buy from Amazon or buy.com?
> 
> AND... What is the launch date?!?


Just want to make sure about this.......I have 1 Tivo on Lifetime and 3 on MSD. If I buy the DT will it qualify for the 6.95 MSD?


----------



## deathcroc

I see the box has built in Ethernet, but I'm assuming I would still need to buy an adapter if I need to use wireless. Am I right or wrong?

{My wife won't let me run network cable outside of the office. Yet.}


----------



## Dan203

Figaro said:


> Does the set up for the analog line know that the digital channels are not available?


I would presume so. Although even if it doesn't you can simply deselect them from the channels you receive list and it would still work correctly.

Dan


----------



## Bierboy

deathcroc said:


> I see the box has built in Ethernet, but I'm assuming I would still need to buy an adapter if I need to use wireless. Am I right or wrong?
> 
> {My wife won't let me run network cable outside of the office. Yet.}


You are correct.


----------



## Dan203

deathcroc said:


> I see the box has built in Ethernet, but I'm assuming I would still need to buy an adapter if I need to use wireless. Am I right or wrong?


You will need either a wireless USB adapter OR a wireless network bridge. The USB adapter would work just like current TiVos. The bridge would plug into Ethernet port and translate the Ethernet signal to wireless. This is the same system used for game systems like the XBox.

Dan


----------



## Orcapace

Does anyone know the price of the 180 gig Dual-Tuner model and when it's available? 80 gig is not enough since I plan to record a lot of shows.


----------



## Dan203

mfrns0123 said:


> Just want to make sure about this.......I have 1 Tivo on Lifetime and 3 on MSD. If I buy the DT will it qualify for the 6.95 MSD?


Yes. However ONLY if you buy it retail. If you buy it from TiVo it will include a year of service in the purchase price at the full rate.

So for your situation you'll need to wait until after May 1st and get it somewhere like Best Buy or Amazon.

Dan


----------



## Dan203

Orcapace said:


> Does anyone know the price of the 180 gig Dual-Tuner model and when it's available? 80 gig is not enough since I plan to record a lot of shows.


The MSRP is $349, which means it'll be $199 after rebate. Not sure when it'll be available.

Dan


----------



## m_jonis

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> What about season passes on "basic" channels..... For example for me, my NBC is 13 with a box, and 8 without a box. Currently I record everything via cablebox.
> 
> If I set-up a season pass for a NBC show as "13" and have a confilct with recording something off HBO (300), will the box know it can record it with the analog tuner on 8?
> 
> Would I have to set-up all season passes possible via basic, avoiding using the cable box all together except when actually needed?


VERY good question. I'd hope it would be "smart" enough to figure out which one is which.


----------



## joysbox

sooooooo, if someone just bought a tivo, added lifetime and then decided that he didn't like it on his Humax - but would like it on the Dual Tuner tivo, could he still transfer the lifetime service under the "you have 30 days, if you don't like lifetime to transfer it to another box" thing?

just wondering since I know plenty of people who bought lifetime on April 12-15th.

j


----------



## mfrns0123

Dan203 said:


> Yes. However ONLY if you buy it retail. If you buy it from TiVo it will include a year of service in the purchase price at the full rate.
> 
> So for your situation you'll need to wait until after May 1st and get it somewhere like Best Buy or Amazon.
> 
> Dan


Thank you Dan


----------



## ChuckyBox

c3 said:


> What's the advantage of announcing this today instead of 5/1, when the product will actually be available? Wouldn't it cut into this quarter's single-tuner sales?


Good question. I can think of a few possible explanations:

To be available for sale in stores on 5/1, the stores have to be getting deliveries this week, meaning that leaks about the product were sure to follow
TiVo put out a number of boxes for review (C|Net, engadget, etc.) and want to build some marketing buzz for the new product now (TiVo's Q1 ends April 30, and I'm sure TiVo wants to have as strong a Q2 as they can have, what with new boxes, new pricing, new retailers, KidZone, etc.)
They may have another announcement that requires this one first. (Much like the Radio Shack announcement followed the KidZone announcement.)


----------



## 1283

joysbox said:


> sooooooo, if someone just bought a tivo, added lifetime and then decided that he didn't like it on his Humax - but would like it on the Dual Tuner tivo, could he still transfer the lifetime service under the "you have 30 days, if you don't like lifetime to transfer it to another box" thing?


Even if you can do that, you may not be eligible for the $150 rebate because the service would be a transfer, not activation.


----------



## Sirshagg

joysbox said:


> sooooooo, if someone just bought a tivo, added lifetime and then decided that he didn't like it on his Humax - but would like it on the Dual Tuner tivo, could he still transfer the lifetime service under the "you have 30 days, if you don't like lifetime to transfer it to another box" thing?
> 
> just wondering since I know plenty of people who bought lifetime on April 12-15th.
> 
> j


No - Lifetime on Humax units can only be transfered to other Humax machines in the 30 day period. This was covered in another thread but i forget which one.


----------



## Dan203

Sirshagg said:


> No - Lifetime on Humax units can only be transfered to other Humax machines in the 30 day period. This was covered in another thread but i forget which one.


That only applies after 5/16. Up until 5/16 you can transfer it to any box. The reason for this is because TiVo has a special agreement with Humax that forces them to continue offering lifetime service on the Humax DVD units. They don't want these units being used as some sort of loophole, so they're cutting off the transfer on the same day that 30 day period will exire for people who bought lifetime on the last day it was available on regular Series 2 units.

Dan


----------



## jmorgans

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> What about season passes on "basic" channels..... For example for me, my NBC is 13 with a box, and 8 without a box. Currently I record everything via cablebox.
> 
> If I set-up a season pass for a NBC show as "13" and have a confilct with recording something off HBO (300), will the box know it can record it with the analog tuner on 8?


Unfortunately, the guide data corresponds to the channel numbers on the cable box. So unless things have changed and they are publishing separate guide data for non-cable box users, the dual tuner unit probably won't play nicely with your (or my) cable system. It'll just record whatever is on analog channel 13 (not NBC).

Anyone have any other information on this?


----------



## Dan203

Actually, if it works like it does with DirecTV, it will maintain two completely separate line-ups. One for the analog input and one for the external box. Any over lapping channels will designated as something like 13 (cab) and 13 (box). So if you set up the Season Pass on the "box" channel it will be restricted to using the box for that channel. However if you set it up on the "cab" channel it will have the two internal tuners at it's disposal. 

Your best bet for this situation is to simply deselect any channels which do not actually require the box from the boxes lineup. That way you wont have any overlapping channels and it'll minimize the confusion. 

Dan


----------



## ChuckyBox

jmorgans said:


> Anyone have any other information on this?


I believe your TiVo will remap the channel numbers to what they would be on a cable box. Guided setup usually takes you through a little exercise where you tell it what channel it is showing you, and from there it figures out your lineup. If TiVo doesn't know about your lineup, you can contact customer support, and they will usually add it for you.


----------



## ah30k

Those Tivo guys are always one step ahead of me...

From http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv090701.htm? 
Warning: Rebates offered with the purchase of a new or refurbished TiVo DVR apply only to new activations. You will not receive a rebate if you transfer service.

So here is the question, I just purchased two regular S2s on 4/15 (still in the box and taped up) and lifetimed them. I knew the DTs were coming out relatively soon and thought that if they came in before 5/15 it would be a total bonus and I could switch the lifetimes over to the DT. The warning above put the brakes on that plan.

I guess I could still buy a new DT with the $6.95 MSD and then sell the brand new regular S2 w/ Lifetime on eBay (or just sell a transfer to someones existing box and return my box, of course with appropriate warnings that the xfer would invalidate any rebates on the target box).


----------



## ScubaCat3

Link from my e-mail to buy the DT:

http://link.p0.com/u.d?Klp_MVdJa0klpof=51


----------



## Bierboy

ScubaCat3 said:


> Link from my e-mail to buy the DT:
> 
> http://link.p0.com/u.d?Klp_MVdJa0klpof=51


Several posted this already.


----------



## Einselen

As an "owner" (parents own the TiVo, I do not) of 1 TiVo with LS I was offered the new DT TiVo plus 1 yr service for $254. My question is why would I want to do this if (assuming the rumor is true) I can get the same box for $99 AR (same price TiVo is offering) and then the MSD of $6.95/month vs. through TiVo at $12.95? Come on Pony, you need to hook those up who have LS.


----------



## Dan203

The only reason you would do that is if you had the money and wanted your S2DT right now. 

Or if you're the kind of person who wont remember to send in the rebate anyway. 

Dan


----------



## classicsat

mfrns0123 said:


> Just want to make sure about this.......I have 1 Tivo on Lifetime and 3 on MSD. If I buy the DT will it qualify for the 6.95 MSD?


If you buy it outright (from a retailer, or TiVo.com sells them outside of bundles), you can get MSD right away.

If you it under a prepay or montly bundle, you can change to MSD when the prepay or bundle is up.


----------



## BlackBetty

I don't know if I can wait till Monday. I want this now!!!!


----------



## ChuckyBox

BlackBetty said:


> I don't know if I can wait till Monday. I want this now!!!!


Betty, are you a 'bamba lamb?


----------



## jmorgans

Actually, I just checked that they have a separate lineup called "cable ready" for my area which has the channel numbers for those not using a box. This was definitely not there previously and is a welcome addition!


----------



## tazzftw

Wow, this is actually a pretty good price. But I just can't justify paying all at once and losing out on MSD. Still I"ll keep my eye out on it at retail.


----------



## jfh3

davezatz said:


> On one hand, that's good news... I won't have to fund a bounty for close-up pictures of the internals/decoding chips.


Maybe ... maybe not. All he said was that the Series 2 boxes supported MPEG2. He didn't say the DT DIDN'T support MPEG4. 

(though I'm guessing that's what he meant)


----------



## tomm1079

OK i tried to read through all this. I want one of these boxes (no HD no cable box)...

I cant seem to find the price for a box (NO BUNDLE) and then getting the MSD. 

Is thier a rebate on no bundles???


----------



## jfh3

Dan203 said:


> That only applies after 5/16. Up until 5/16 you can transfer it to any box. The reason for this is because TiVo has a special agreement with Humax that forces them to continue offering lifetime service on the Humax DVD units. They don't want these units being used as some sort of loophole, so they're cutting off the transfer on the same day that 30 day period will exire for people who bought lifetime on the last day it was available on regular Series 2 units.
> 
> Dan


So, don't the "transfer from" and "transfer to" models have to be the same? Or does this mean that I can go to Best Buy tonight, buy a Humax DVD box, put lifetimetime on it, go back this weekend, get a DT box and transfer lifetime from the Humax to the DT?


----------



## Einselen

Einselen said:


> As an "owner" (parents own the TiVo, I do not) of 1 TiVo with LS I was offered the new DT TiVo plus 1 yr service for $254. My question is why would I want to do this if (assuming the rumor is true) I can get the same box for $99 AR (same price TiVo is offering) and then the MSD of $6.95/month vs. through TiVo at $12.95? Come on Pony, you need to hook those up who have LS.


I think I may have answed my own question after thinking some. Assuming the rumor is true that we can buy a DT $99 AR it will probably require at least a year activation and I don't think you can sign up for a year with MSD, or am I wrong on that one? If I am correct then the TiVo deal would be better because 1) wouldn't have to mess with a rebate 2) save some money because with rebate you have to pay the tax on $250


----------



## MEngland

*Lifetime on a S2 DT*

in this post:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3851329&&#post3851329
TiVoPony says: "1. 30-day money back guarantee: During the first 30 days after you activate your Product Lifetime service, you can transfer freely from one unit to another."

It was confirmed here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3955277&&#post3955277
That this is from any unit to any unit, even different types.

So if I upgraded one of my existing TiVos to Lifetime on 4/15, it would appear that I have until 5/15 to transfer that lifetime service to a S2 DT, assuming I can get an unbundled unit before then.

I believe this is correct... Anyone disagree?

And I can't be the only person with an existing S2 that upgraded to lifetime on (or just before) 4/15.

So when do (unbundled) S2DT TiVos appear inthe retail channel?


----------



## ah30k

Einselen said:


> why would I want to do this if (assuming the rumor is true) I can get the same box for $99 AR (same price TiVo is offering) and then the MSD of $6.95/month vs. through TiVo at $12.95? Come on Pony, you need to hook those up who have LS.


I think that if you prepay for 1 year and already have an existing unit they will decrement your pre-pay by 6.95 rather than 12.95. This would extend your 1 year prepay to two years of service. Now this assumption I am making is based off of the behavior of 1 year gift cards not 1 year prepay so it might not hold true. Perhaps one of the TiVo guys can confirm.


----------



## ah30k

MEngland said:


> *Lifetime on a S2 DT*
> TiVoPony says: "1. 30-day money back guarantee: During the first 30 days after you activate your Product Lifetime service, you can transfer freely from one unit to another."
> 
> I believe this is correct... Anyone disagree?


You can transfer! You just can't collect the rebate  See post #145 on this thread about rebates.

This is how we get stuck!


----------



## tazzftw

I wonder if people are willing to go through that, paying an extra $150 just to have the possibility of lifetime service working?


----------



## Ruth

:up: to TiVo. Looks like a great product, and one that we've been asking about for a while. Thanks! 

As for me, I want one I want one I want one! oooooooooh do I want one! 

But I'm not sure it makes any sense. I already have a 140 hour lifetimed S2. I'd love two tuners, but I definetely need more than 80 hours. So if the DTs only go up to 80 hours, I can't get the DT in place of what I already have. And I don't need three tuners, so adding a DT to my setup seems a little unnecessary and wasteful.

Do we know if there will be any bigger DTs that 80 hours? Do we know if they're upgradable? And has anyone actually seen one for sale without a service bundle (so that lifetimers can use MSD)?


----------



## tbeckner

Ruth said:


> :up: to TiVo. Looks like a great product, and one that we've been asking about for a while. Thanks!
> 
> As for me, I want one I want one I want one! oooooooooh do I want one!
> 
> But I'm not sure it makes any sense. I already have a 140 hour lifetimed S2. I'd love two tuners, but I definetely need more than 80 hours. So if the DTs only go up to 80 hours, I can't get the DT in place of what I already have. And I don't need three tuners, so adding a DT to my setup seems a little unnecessary and wasteful.
> 
> Do we know if there will be any bigger DTs that 80 hours? Do we know if they're upgradable? And has anyone actually seen one for sale without a service bundle (so that lifetimers can use MSD)?


There has been a sighting a few weeks ago of a 180 hour model, so someday soon it should be available.


----------



## jfh3

Ruth said:


> Do we know if there will be any bigger DTs that 80 hours?


Yes, there is a 180 hr model.



Ruth said:


> Do we know if they're upgradable?


No, but odds are pretty good that they are.



Ruth said:


> And has anyone actually seen one for sale without a service bundle (so that lifetimers can use MSD)?


Nope - not available at retail until 5/1.


----------



## 1283

MEngland said:


> So if I upgraded one of my existing TiVos to Lifetime on 4/15, it would appear that I have until 5/15 to transfer that lifetime service to a S2 DT


If you had monthly before and upgraded to lifetime on 4/15, you do NOT have a 30-day window. The 30-day period applies to new activations only. At least that's how I think it works.


----------



## rem

rem said:


> the following is from tivo's knowledge base:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> What does it mean to be "eligible" for the Multi-Service Discount?
> In order to be eligible for the discounted monthly service, all TiVo® subscriptions must be registered to the same account at tivo.com and must be dialing in/connecting from the same service address. You must also have one TiVo box paying the regular monthly service only fee of $12.95, annual, prepaid or paid in full with product lifetime service and payment made directly with TiVo (as opposed to a third party service provider such as DIRECTV), or a TiVo Package. For instance, DIRECTV DVRs with the TiVo service are ineligible to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT or to be a qualifying subscription.More information. While TiVo Packages are not eligible for MSD discounts, they can serve as qualifying subscriptions to allow other eligible TiVo subscriptions receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT, excluding Product Lifetime Subscriptions. For example, if you purchase a TiVo package at $19.95/month and already have a TiVo box at the "service-only" rate of $12.95/month, we will discount your "service only" monthly fee of $12.95 to $6.95, as long as your TiVo Package box is activated. [B]However, if you have one active TiVo box that was activated using a product lifetime subscription and you subsequently purchase a TiVo package at $19.95/month, you do NOT qualify for MSD pricing.[/B]
> 
> i have two s2 boxes with lifetime. so if i buy this dual-tuner package, i have to pay the full $254 (one year service included). i get that. but the bolded statement doesn't say anything about the dual-tuner qualifying for msd after the one-year commitment.
> 
> can someone clarify?


never mind... got the answer by reading the sticky on the new pricing plans and confirming with a rep.

after the one-year, the new one qualifies for msd. but you have to call them to get the msd. it doesn't happen automatically.


----------



## Sevenfeet

This is truly good news today since this product is long, long, loooooong overdue. But the more I think about it, the more concerns I have.

First, this is clearly a stopgap product for people who want to record two programs at once but don't want to do it through either DirecTV, Echostar and crappy Comcast DVRs. For HD owners, this product won't solve our issues (Series 3 will sometime this year). But there are other issues.

Many cable customers have digital cable and that means we're still on the cable box + tivo box marriage that I first did in 1999...and it was as crappy a marraige then as now. In 2006, you'd think we'd have graduated to either cablecards or something else more reliable than IR blasters. But we're still doing it old school with this box. Sure we can do two programs at once, but if you want to record the Sopranos at the same time as another digital cable channel, you're out of luck. The only good thing is that Tivo's ability to find rerun shows is far superior than any other technology out there.

The other problem with this scenario is that cablecos are moving away from analog channels as fast as they can to retrieve their inefficient use of bandwidth. A few cities are already all digital or doing digital simulcast in preparation of going all digital. Once that happens, this Tivo is only good enough to be a single tuner model again. Don't think this will be a problem since the all-digital changeover is slow? How many of you are still using a Series 1 Tivo from 5+ years ago? Or a Series 2 from 3 years ago?

The Series 3 Tivo will reportedly not have this problem. But this Series "2.5" model fills a gap that needed to be filled two+ years ago. This product is better late than never, but I fear that it's best feature may be shorter lived than the product itself.


----------



## Figaro

Sevenfeet said:


> This is truly good news today since this product is long, long, loooooong overdue. But the more I think about it, the more concerns I have.
> 
> First, this is clearly a stopgap product for people who want to record two programs at once but don't want to do it through either DirecTV, Echostar and crappy Comcast DVRs. For HD owners, this product won't solve our issues (Series 3 will sometime this year). But there are other issues.
> 
> Many cable customers have digital cable and that means we're still on the cable box + tivo box marriage that I first did in 1999...and it was as crappy a marraige then as now. In 2006, you'd think we'd have graduated to either cablecards or something else more reliable than IR blasters. But we're still doing it old school with this box. Sure we can do two programs at once, but if you want to record the Sopranos at the same time as another digital cable channel, you're out of luck. The only good thing is that Tivo's ability to find rerun shows is far superior than any other technology out there.
> 
> The other problem with this scenario is that cablecos are moving away from analog channels as fast as they can to retrieve their inefficient use of bandwidth. A few cities are already all digital or doing digital simulcast in preparation of going all digital. Once that happens, this Tivo is only good enough to be a single tuner model again. Don't think this will be a problem since the all-digital changeover is slow? How many of you are still using a Series 1 Tivo from 5+ years ago? Or a Series 2 from 3 years ago?
> 
> The Series 3 Tivo will reportedly not have this problem. But this Series "2.5" model fills a gap that needed to be filled two+ years ago. This product is better late than never, but I fear that it's best feature may be shorter lived than the product itself.


Exactly! Too late! It's a like any PPC Mac that came out after they announced the switch to Intel.


----------



## Joeg180

I put two new units in service on 3/10 and 3/27 and the S2DT's won't hit retail until 5/1.

Always a few days short...


----------



## Einselen

Sevenfeet said:


> This is truly good news today since this product is long, long, loooooong overdue. But the more I think about it, the more concerns I have.
> 
> First, this is clearly a stopgap product for people who want to record two programs at once but don't want to do it through either DirecTV, Echostar and crappy Comcast DVRs. For HD owners, this product won't solve our issues (Series 3 will sometime this year). But there are other issues.
> 
> Many cable customers have digital cable and that means we're still on the cable box + tivo box marriage that I first did in 1999...and it was as crappy a marraige then as now. In 2006, you'd think we'd have graduated to either cablecards or something else more reliable than IR blasters. But we're still doing it old school with this box. Sure we can do two programs at once, but if you want to record the Sopranos at the same time as another digital cable channel, you're out of luck. The only good thing is that Tivo's ability to find rerun shows is far superior than any other technology out there.
> 
> The other problem with this scenario is that cablecos are moving away from analog channels as fast as they can to retrieve their inefficient use of bandwidth. A few cities are already all digital or doing digital simulcast in preparation of going all digital. Once that happens, this Tivo is only good enough to be a single tuner model again. Don't think this will be a problem since the all-digital changeover is slow? How many of you are still using a Series 1 Tivo from 5+ years ago? Or a Series 2 from 3 years ago?
> 
> The Series 3 Tivo will reportedly not have this problem. But this Series "2.5" model fills a gap that needed to be filled two+ years ago. This product is better late than never, but I fear that it's best feature may be shorter lived than the product itself.


Also what about the law of cable having to be all digital in 2009? In 3 years the government is mandating that we are on digital. So the life of the box is 3 years before it becomes just another series 2 TiVo. Or am I just confused on this 2009 Digital Bill?


----------



## ZeoTiVo

Sevenfeet said:


> This is truly good news today since this product is long, long, loooooong overdue. But the more I think about it, the more concerns I have.
> 
> First, this is clearly a stopgap product for people who want to record two programs at once but don't want to do it through either DirecTV, Echostar and crappy Comcast DVRs. For HD owners, this product won't solve our issues (Series 3 will sometime this year). But there are other issues.
> 
> Many cable customers have digital cable and that means we're still on the cable box + tivo box marriage that I first did in 1999...and it was as crappy a marraige then as now. In 2006, you'd think we'd have graduated to either cablecards or something else more reliable than IR blasters. But we're still doing it old school with this box. Sure we can do two programs at once, but if you want to record the Sopranos at the same time as another digital cable channel, you're out of luck. The only good thing is that Tivo's ability to find rerun shows is far superior than any other technology out there.
> 
> The other problem with this scenario is that cablecos are moving away from analog channels as fast as they can to retrieve their inefficient use of bandwidth. A few cities are already all digital or doing digital simulcast in preparation of going all digital. Once that happens, this Tivo is only good enough to be a single tuner model again. Don't think this will be a problem since the all-digital changeover is slow? How many of you are still using a Series 1 Tivo from 5+ years ago? Or a Series 2 from 3 years ago?
> 
> The Series 3 Tivo will reportedly not have this problem. But this Series "2.5" model fills a gap that needed to be filled two+ years ago. This product is better late than never, but I fear that it's best feature may be shorter lived than the product itself.


this box is not for people in the situation you describe. But many parts of this country will have analog cable for a long time to come. And if analog wont work in a year then what about all the analog TVs out there. whatever will make them work will make this work as well.

meanwhile wait for the S3 and don't worry about this DVR then


----------



## MEngland

c3 said:


> If you had monthly before and upgraded to lifetime on 4/15, you do NOT have a 30-day window. The 30-day period applies to new activations only. At least that's how I think it works.


I think I am correct. The post I referenced from TiVoPony said exactly "During the first 30 days after you activate your Product Lifetime service, you can transfer freely from one unit to another."

It says nothing about the activation date of the box, just the activation of the Lifetime service. If I am willing to pay for a bundled unit ($250), I can move my (purchased 4/15) Lifetime to a DT. Total cost $550

Alternately, I could buy a DT at retail (figure $99 after rebate) and then use a Lifetime gift card from eBay ($550 is about the best price recently). Total cost: $650. And yes, I think you could get the rebate since it IS a new activation in this case. $100 more than the above example, but I would still have my other TiVo with Lifetime


----------



## jsmeeker

Einselen said:


> Also what about the law of cable having to be all digital in 2009? In 3 years the government is mandating that we are on digital.


NO SUCH LAW EXISTS!!

Why do people keep saying this??


----------



## Ruth

I think your fears about obsolescence are a little overblown. I see your point, but doesn't the new pricing system make it sensible for most people to dump their boxes every couple years anyway? Now there is no up-front hardware investment for new customers. At the end of their 1-, 2-, 3- year contracts, people are going to have the option to get a new contract, with a better box, for a similar monthly fee to what they are already paying. I bet TiVo will strongly encourage that option, and I bet most people will want to do it -- just like pretty much everyone gets a shiny new cell phone every time they get a new cell phone contract, even if the old phone is paid off and still works.


----------



## Einselen

jsmeeker said:


> NO SUCH LAW EXISTS!!
> 
> Why do people keep saying this??


 * February 17, 2009: In legislation passed in early Feb. 2006, the U.S. Congress chose this date for the "analog shut-off," when all TV stations would be required to turn off their analog signals and broadcast only digital signals. The measure is part of the budget bill, which was signed into law by President Bush.

If 2009 rolls around and you still don't own a digital TV, don't worry  you won't be left staring at a dark screen. Any TV connected to a cable or satellite set-top box should continue to work just fine. Plus, all versions of the analog shutoff legislation proposed so far have included significant funds  at least a billion dollars or so  earmarked for helping owners of analog TVs purchase inexpensive converter boxes that would allow them to view over-the-air digital broadcasts on their old TVs.

Source: http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/home/tv_hdtv.html


----------



## Einselen

Ruth said:


> I think your fears about obsolescence are a little overblown. I see your point, but doesn't the new pricing system make it sensible for most people to dump their boxes every couple years anyway? Now there is no up-front hardware investment for new customers. At the end of their 1-, 2-, 3- year contracts, people are going to have the option to get a new contract, with a better box, for a similar monthly fee to what they are already paying. I bet TiVo will strongly encourage that option, and I bet most people will want to do it -- just like pretty much everyone gets a shiny new cell phone every time they get a new cell phone contract, even if the old phone is paid off and still works.


Ruth valid pt. I have no fears about having analog disapper or being "forced" to digital. No doubt people will buy the S2.5 TiVo box and then in a few years upgrade to the S3. The reason I (again not really me, forced my parents to) get a TiVo was because lifetime was going away, the 40 hr S2 box was cheap after rebate and the cost beneft to get TiVo under lifetime and keep for even 2 or 3 years (probably even more as I am not picky if HD channels are recorded in HD) was worth it.

I personally do not see the benefit of buying a DT TiVo if in a few years it will revert back to currently what we have. It would be different though if the price was a bit cheaper (for the box), but until then I am happy to put the TiVo into stand by and pick up the TiVo remote when I want to watch something else, but still record.

*Edit:* I do still think that this is a good move on TiVo's part, just not fit for all people, just have to weigh all the options, etc.


----------



## MickeS

Einselen said:


> * February 17, 2009: In legislation passed in early Feb. 2006, the U.S. Congress chose this date for the "analog shut-off," when all TV stations would be required to turn off their analog signals and broadcast only digital signals. The measure is part of the budget bill, which was signed into law by President Bush.
> 
> If 2009 rolls around and you still don't own a digital TV, don't worry  you won't be left staring at a dark screen. Any TV connected to a cable or satellite set-top box should continue to work just fine. Plus, all versions of the analog shutoff legislation proposed so far have included significant funds  at least a billion dollars or so  earmarked for helping owners of analog TVs purchase inexpensive converter boxes that would allow them to view over-the-air digital broadcasts on their old TVs.
> 
> Source: http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/home/tv_hdtv.html


None of this applies to cable, only over-the-air broadcasts.

This S2 DT looks like a nice product for me. I have no interest in HD, I have no cable box... but I am indeed a little worried about its possible obsolence in the near future.

Not sure if I need another TiVo... all my conflicts are resolved with bittorrent.


----------



## Troy J B

Einselen said:


> * February 17, 2009: In legislation passed in early Feb. 2006, the U.S. Congress chose this date for the "analog shut-off," when all TV stations would be required to turn off their analog signals and broadcast only digital signals.


TV Stations != cable
_that_ law has no affect on cable providers.
cable providers, if they choose, can still distribute the signals via analog.
But as others have stated, cable providers want to reclaim all that space they are wasting on the analog signals.

Troy


----------



## Einselen

Troy J B said:


> TV Stations != cable
> _that_ law has no affect on cable providers.
> cable providers, if they choose, can still distribute the signals via analog.
> But as others have stated, cable providers want to reclaim all that space they are wasting on the analog signals.
> 
> Troy


Let me make sure I get this straight as if I am confused others probably are as well. All over the air (OTA) aka rabbit ears will have to be broadcast digitally in Feb 2009. Cable providers can still provide analog signals if they wish, as they will not be done OTA, but most will start to upgrade customers to digital as digital has small bandwidth.

Now that site said if you don't have a digital TV then you will need a cable box. Currently both my cable providers (at home and at school) offer cable without a box (analog) or I can upgrade to digital (and of course get a box). Come 2009 as long as my cable providers offer it I could have cable with no box (analog) but once I get rid of that then of course I will have to get a converter to convert the rabbit ears digital signal into the format my TV can read.


----------



## dwarner

Dan203 said:


> If you want to preserve the buffer simply pause tuner #1, press the live TV button to switch to tuner #2 and then proceed to change the channel to whatever you want. When you want to go back to tuner #1 simply press the live TV button again and you be right where you paused it.
> 
> Dan


Wouldn't work for me. Even after owning Tivo since S1, in "live" mode, I still automatically poke the channel button sometimes, especially when a stupid "screamer" ad comes on. That simple reflex action is what I need protection against.


----------



## thayes55

From the CNet Review: "TiVo To Go was a frustration. This great idea is hobbled by extremely slow transfer times, even on a wired network. On the previous Series2, many users theorized that the USB network adapters were the bottleneck, but using the integrated Ethernet jack on the DT yielded similarly glacial transfer speeds that approached the actual length of the video. "

Currently, I agree that the transfers are painfully slow to be really functional. Plus, to convert the material from MPEG2 to MPEG4 (to play on say, an iPod) doubles the time. I was hoping the ethernet port would fix the TiVo to computer slowness.

But, with that quibble aside, it's still a decent filler product until the Series3 comes out.


----------



## Arcady

It's pretty funny that the best dual tuner box that tivo ever made was released years ago and required hackers to activate networking, which is still multiple times faster than a box coming out in 2006. I can do a 1 hour MRV on a D*tivo box in 6 minutes.


----------



## MickeS

It's easy when you don't have to worry about the MPAA and NFL suing your ass off.


----------



## MickeS

Einselen said:


> Let me make sure I get this straight as if I am confused others probably are as well. All over the air (OTA) aka rabbit ears will have to be broadcast digitally in Feb 2009. Cable providers can still provide analog signals if they wish, as they will not be done OTA, but most will start to upgrade customers to digital as digital has small bandwidth.
> 
> Now that site said if you don't have a digital TV then you will need a cable box. Currently both my cable providers (at home and at school) offer cable without a box (analog) or I can upgrade to digital (and of course get a box). *Come 2009 as long as my cable providers offer it I could have cable with no box (analog) but once I get rid of that then of course I will have to get a converter to convert the rabbit ears digital signal into the format my TV can read.*


Correct. Currently, there is no requirement for the cable companies to give up analog .


----------



## killme

I opted for a 4-year service plan with my TiVo purchase that way if it does break maybe there will be no Series 2 replacements and I could get a Series 3. Am I dreaming?

Anyway, since returning a TiVo I bought on 4/15 would deny me the $150 rebate. I could just sell it on eBay and transfer the subscription to a Series 2 DT. That way I get my rebate and my lifetime. Sound good?


----------



## MickeS

I just read the CNet review of the DT model. It seemed accurate - everything they described of the functionality (except DT ) was the same as my ST 7.2.2 version. EDIT: except it does not work with OTA broadcasts.

But they did write this:
"To play a transferred show on your PC, you need only select the show on the TiVo Desktop and click play. You're immediately prompted to enter the password you set during installation. This copyright protection device occurs every time you want to play a TiVo file on your computer."

Now, that must be incorrect... right? Odd, because the TiVo desktop that eliminated this for me came out a long time ago...


----------



## PhantomDilbert

Decisions decisions...

I really want to wait for the series 3 because I love HD.

I own a series2 w/ lifetime (sony svr3000) upgraded to 276 hours. It's been faithful to me. Cost was 300 for the box plus 250 for lifetime (back in '03) plus hd upgrade so say....$600 total.

Figure I can sell this on eBay for $600ish....meaning I basically would have recouped my costs and basically used the service/hardware for 3 years but would start at ground 0 again.

Should I upgrade to a dual tuner by selling my series2? I know I'm going to take the plunge on the series 3 eventually....

decisions decisions.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Ok I have a few questions cause I just got the e-mail today.. I currently own two series 2 Tivos both 80 hours.. MY 1st one is in my living room connected to digital cable box Motorola I think hooked up via serial... I have these 2 sensor things that are lined up to make the channels change.. Is this new model differen't? I then bought a 2nd one for the bedroom cause I record so much stuff that was on different channels at the same time.. I pay 12.95 for one and 6.95 for the other.. The one in my bedroom is not hooked up to a cable box it just has basic cable channels 2-99... The bedroom one was hooked up via network and the other via phone line until just recently I bought another wirelss adapter and now I do both through network.. I love how I can record something in the bedroom and transfer it and watch it in the living room... And Tivo 2 go is great if I am behind on a show I record it to the laptop and watch it at work on my dinner break..


Ok so I now want a dual tuner Tivo.. Since I have 2 tivos 80 hours is enough for me.. I record 3 soaps a day and lots more shows and almost everything is deleted after I watch it.. I figured 12.95 x a year is 155 so paying 254 is like getting a new Tivo for 99 bucks.. But I don't need 3 Tivos so I hope to sell one of mine for a hundred bucks.. If not I'll give it to my brother and still buy this one cause it will come out to being a 100 bucks for a new Tivo and a year paid for so that's good. I just started getting into Idol this season... Two or three times there has been 2 shows on that I record plus Idol which I just started watching this season . So I have missed 2 or 3 episodes of this one show I like.. So the dual tuner would be great for me.. I don't have an HD TV not do I plan on getting one anytime soon..


From reading these post is it easier for me to hook it up to my bedroom TV without the cable box? Most stuff I record is on regular channels anyway.. My living room TV it is so hard to get into the back of it and I would need someone to move my whole entertainment center.. The TV in my bedroom is just on a stand and easier to get to.. I guess it doesn't matter cause either way after my 1 year I will go back to my normal 12.95 and 6.95. I just thought I read it would be better to hook up without a cable box.. I watch more TV in my living room and I don't care about watching a Live TV Show and recording another. I just care about recording 2 live shows at once while I am not home.. I am always watching a recorded show never live TV.. But will I be able to watch a recorded show and still record 2 things at once? My main concern is when 3 shows are on that I like I want to do 2 on the dual and one on my other.. I just wonder which Tivo to replace my living room or bedroom.. I guess it doesn't matter the bedroom will be easier and even if I watch TV more in the Living Room I will still be able to transfer from one tivo to the other... So maybe I should hook it up to the bedroom one? Sorry I rambled on so long.. I am excited I think I will order one tomorrow.. I spoke to Tivo about it just a little while ago they were still there.. I said I would call back tomorrow and order one.. I just am afraid I will be confused with 2 tuners and mess up recordings or something.. But most of my stuff is on regular cable only one or two shows are on digital..


----------



## cwerdna

I'd pick up one of these if I only had a lifetime gift card... :/


----------



## 1283

killme said:


> Anyway, since returning a TiVo I bought on 4/15 would deny me the $150 rebate. I could just sell it on eBay and transfer the subscription to a Series 2 DT. That way I get my rebate and my lifetime. Sound good?


If you transfer lifetime within 30 days, your rebate will be invalidated. After 30 days, you cannot transfer.


----------



## juanian

I still haven't seen the 'official' answer to the question previously asked: If your current TiVo has lifetime service, and you buy the $254 from TiVo, will you get just 12 months of service, or can it use the MSD and give ~22 months of service?


----------



## 1283

The official answer is very clear. The $254 bundled package (or any bundled package) is not eligible for MSD.


----------



## mchasal

MickeS said:


> Correct. Currently, there is no requirement for the cable companies to give up analog .


While that's true, I wonder if the deadline in this law for OTA broadcast will be the excuse that the cableco's use to finally drop analog all together. Honestly, I'm suprised that there are so many, mine included, that still carry analog at all. They have a cable box that works, at least on paper, for everybody regardless of the TV they have. And it seems that the cost of maintaining all that analog bandwidth would easily cover subsidising the cable box in a basic package at the same price as current analog.

While the dual tuner is appealing, I'm also concerned about how long it would be usable.

And yes, I'm still using a Series 1 Tivo hooked to analog, though I do have digital, just don't trust the cable box. As I look up right now, I see it was powered off again by the head end. I guess I'm just a crotchety old man. 

Mike


----------



## xscorpion

This is the email I got about the new TiVo with DT...


----------



## shaown

Based on the email I recieved, the new box seems a little more pricey than I expected.
I already a Series 1 Standalone Tivo /w Lifetime (as well a HR10-250 + 3 DirectTivos).
I got an email I can get a DT 80 hour for $254 /w 1 year of service. Since 1 year of service would cost me $84 on a new box ($6.95*12), that means the effective price is 170 for the box. I was hoping the box would be more in the ~100 dollar range.
Thanks,
-Shaown


----------



## Rose4uKY

Well I need to find out but at Best Buy I think I bought a 4 year extended warranty on both of my Tivo's.. They said I could bring it in once a year for cleaning which I have never done.. But both have worked fine and I've had my Living Room one since 03 and my other one 6 months to a year later.. Everyone recommended because of the hard drive getting the extended warranty.. Should I get it again and what extended does Tivo offer? I think I will order one of these later today.. Rose


----------



## BlackBetty

shaown said:


> I was hoping the box would be more in the ~100 dollar range.
> Thanks,
> -Shaown


The box is $99.99 after rebate. Just wait 5 days and buy it from a retail store. No biggie. Thats what I am going to do. I plan on replacing both of my S2 units with these dual tuner units.


----------



## timstack8969

Does this new Series 2 DT use the Serial Port or only "IR" to change channels???


----------



## greg_burns

timstack8969 said:


> Does this new Series 2 DT use the Serial Port or only "IR" to change channels???


Depends on the what you are trying to change channels on. Not everything supports the serial connection.


----------



## lajohn27

Has anyone made note of the fact that these units won't do OTA tuning?

J


----------



## lajohn27

jmorgans said:


> Unfortunately, the guide data corresponds to the channel numbers on the cable box. So unless things have changed and they are publishing separate guide data for non-cable box users, the dual tuner unit probably won't play nicely with your (or my) cable system. It'll just record whatever is on analog channel 13 (not NBC).
> 
> Anyone have any other information on this?


What is your zipcode and cable provider?

Take that information to www.zap2it.com

Look up TV listings there. I'm betting when you choose providers you'll see..

Your Cable Provider, Your City, State
Your Cable Provider, Digital , Your City, State

Etc.

I'd like to have you check this.

J


----------



## timstack8969

I have the Motorola DCT 2000 & 2500 digital boxes and I am currently using the serial ports.


----------



## chubb

Well, I think considering the fact that non-lifetimers get an incentive (MSD on existing box, new DT box + 1year for $254), why not just reverse the deal and basically offer MSD pricing + $99 for the new box? i.e. if you already have lifetime on one box, then just charge 6.95x12 = $83.40 + $99 for the box, for a grand total of: $182.40 for the new DT and 1 year of service?

This would basically be the same as buying from retail and getting a rebate ($99 AR for the box) and then getting the MSD discount after activation. It just makes it more convenient for us and not have to deal with rebates....



bpurcell said:


> I know lifetime is gone, but since MSD has an incentive, I was hoping lifetimers would also get an incentive. I'm not expecting what chubb said (although that would get me to buy it without a second glance), but some sort of loyalty deal would be nice.
> 
> I think 2 tuners is a great idea, but I need a carrot-and-stick to get me as an early adopter.


----------



## BlackBetty

lajohn27 said:


> Has anyone made note of the fact that these units won't do OTA tuning?
> 
> J


I'm in the catagory of "who cares".


----------



## ZeoTiVo

lajohn27 said:


> Has anyone made note of the fact that these units won't do OTA tuning?
> 
> J


yes. That is because of that OTA going digital law that people tossed around as if all cable was going to convert to all digital within a year. That will nopt happen

but for TiVo to support OTA with this box they would have to put in an expensive digital tuner simply for that one function. The design goal was an inexpensive analog dual tuner box , so no OTA capability.

it really is all quite simple -
Analog will be around for quite a while, digital with HD is the next cool thing.

-so if you do not care about digital or HD - eg you record a lot of network shows and perhaps series/movies off of HBO or showtime or PPV
the Dual Tuner S2 is for you

-if you have satellite but want to use a TiVo -
then the Dual Tuner sereis 2 is for you - you hook up the sat receiver on one input/tuner and then can grab locals by hooking up coax as well.

-if like me you just have analog cable and are holding off on HD for now
then the dual tuner series 2 is definitely the way to go.

-if you wnat to record a lot of shows on digital channels or already view HD
then wait for the Series 3 if you are going with a TiVo DVR


----------



## DancnDude

Rose4uKY said:


> I just am afraid I will be confused with 2 tuners and mess up recordings or something.. But most of my stuff is on regular cable only one or two shows are on digital..


I would doubt you could mess up recordings at all. It will work pretty much like other TiVos but it can record 2 shows. It would automatically figure out which tuner it needed to use and record from, but all you would have to do is go to the Now Playing list to see everything.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

MickeS said:


> I just read the CNet review of the DT model. It seemed accurate - everything they described of the functionality (except DT ) was the same as my ST 7.2.2 version.
> 
> But they did write this:
> "To play a transferred show on your PC, you need only select the show on the TiVo Desktop and click play. You're immediately prompted to enter the password you set during installation. This copyright protection device occurs every time you want to play a TiVo file on your computer."
> 
> Now, that must be incorrect... right? Odd, because the TiVo desktop that eliminated this for me came out a long time ago...


I would not trust that CNET review at all. It smakcs of being early release and as you point out does not seem to have configured everything as it should be.

I would wait for reports from people in this forum who will know exactly what they are looking for and do real comparisons.

PS - MRV is very different from transferring to a PC


----------



## SMWinnie

lajohn27 said:


> Has anyone made note of the fact that these units won't do OTA tuning?


Yep. From the fine print in the e-mail I got, "Supports recording from cable and satellite sources only; does not support recording from over-the-air antenna."

I *think* this tells us that TiVo expects to continue to sell this platform after the ATSC mandate for over-the-air kicks in. After that, basically anything that tunes OTA has to have an ATSC tuner.


----------



## Puppy76

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes. That is because of that OTA going digital law that people tossed around as if all cable was going to convert to all digital within a year. That will nopt happen
> 
> but for TiVo to support OTA with this box they would have to put in an expensive digital tuner simply for that one function. The design goal was an inexpensive analog dual tuner box , so no OTA capability.


I haven't commented yet because I haven't seen anything official from Tivo. I'll be pretty shocked/sort of mad if that's true. Makes it worthless for me-and ironically I'll need a more expensive Series 3 in order to save money 

Regarding that law, Tivo could just disable over the air NTSC for any boxes sold to stores after the law takes effect. It could be the same hardware, just a different box that says on it "dosen't work for over the air broadcasts".

And if true, this also affects people with satelite + OTA combos.


----------



## Bierboy

SMWinnie said:


> Yep. From the fine print in the e-mail I got, "Supports recording from cable and satellite sources only; does not support recording from over-the-air antenna."
> 
> I *think* this tells us that TiVo expects to continue to sell this platform after the ATSC mandate for over-the-air kicks in. After that, basically anything that tunes OTA has to have an ATSC tuner.


And, seriously, how high can the percentage be of TiVo users who get OTA only AND would have a lot of scheduling conflicts?


----------



## tomm1079

So has anyone figured out what the standalone price will be (with or without rebate) and NO bundle.

Also will it be eligible for the MSD for those that already have a lifetime box?


----------



## Puppy76

Don't know, but I do all the time, and desperatly want dual tuners. Sometimes I could use three or four tuners...


----------



## MikeMar

How can you get this box w/ MSD? I'm not going to pay for a year of service at $12.95, but i'd pay for a year of $6.95 though.


----------



## lajohn27

The number of DTV users with OTA separate from their DTV service is dwindling rapidly and will continue to do so.

According to DirecTV, they have local channels available on their satellites for 92 % of US TV households. That leaves eight percent. Some percentage of those eight percent, probably half, would be eligible for the Distant Locals from DirecTV. (NY/LA)

Some number considerably smaller than eight percent is hardly a market to chase after with extra expensive hardware.

--

Price after rebate for 80 hour DT box at retail is said to be 99.95$

Wait till Monday and purchase the unit at retail -- Circuit City, BestBuy, etc... activate and you'll get the MSD.

J


----------



## rainwater

MikeMar said:


> How can you get this box w/ MSD? I'm not going to pay for a year of service at $12.95, but i'd pay for a year of $6.95 though.


You need to buy it at retail when it becomes available on or after May 1. Perhaps this is why they sent out this email to existing users early w/ the tivo.com offer.


----------



## ashu

ZeoTiVo said:


> If I want HD I rent the DVD


[OT]
I don't know if I'm smeeking, but DVD's are sub HD quality. I know you know that, but just reiterating it here. From the POV of a new HD convert  DVDs do not compare (usually, all things being equal, with a 'good' HD broadcast)


----------



## MickeS

Puppy76 said:


> I haven't commented yet because I haven't seen anything official from Tivo. I'll be pretty shocked/sort of mad if that's true.


In the press release they write "The TiVo Series2 DT DVR is optimized for cable households". In the CNet review, it says the RF input does not work with over-the-air antenna.

I think it's safe to say that it does not work with OTA broadcasts, for the reasons that have been speculated about in the forum before.


----------



## aztivo

lajohn27 said:


> The number of DTV users with OTA separate from their DTV service is dwindling rapidly and will continue to do so.
> 
> According to DirecTV, they have local channels available on their satellites for 92 % of US TV households. That leaves eight percent. Some percentage of those eight percent, probably half, would be eligible for the Distant Locals from DirecTV. (NY/LA)
> 
> Some number considerably smaller than eight percent is hardly a market to chase after with extra expensive hardware.
> 
> --
> 
> Price after rebate for 80 hour DT box at retail is said to be 99.95$
> 
> Wait till Monday and purchase the unit at retail -- Circuit City, BestBuy, etc... activate and you'll get the MSD.
> 
> J


If D* is saying this they are full of it... they may at some day cover 92% but that is a few years off


----------



## Sirshagg

Here is the email if you already have lifetime.


----------



## MikeMar

But that says NOTHING about multi discount, which is the only way i'd get it


----------



## davezatz

Sirshagg said:


> Here is the email if you already have lifetime.


The reflection of the underside of the TiVo looks funny, like maybe the unit has an oil leak or something.
No Photoshop?


----------



## Rose4uKY

Ok I am ordering one in just a little bit.. I usually buy from Best Buy and do the extended warranty.. I can't with buying from Tivo.. But I am already paying 12.95 and 6.95 so me paying the 254 is ok cause it still amounts to me paying 99 bucks and I am going to sell one of my Tivos for 100 bucks.. So I am not losing out I am just paying 12.95 for 1 year up front and will still be paying my 6.95 for my other.. 

Tivo told me it would be easier and better for me to just hook it up in my bedroom where I have basic cable only no box channels 2-99... My living room Tivo is set up with those IR things I thought it was serial but I guess not.. But it's too hard to mess with and there are too many wires behind my TV and I can't move my entertainment center so this new one will go in the bedroom with my basic cable and no box.. It should be easier for me to hook up.. I guess if I am saving anything back there that I haven't watched I need to transfer it to my other Tivo then maybe transfer it back.. I have like 20 shows back there I haven't watched that I was saving.. Thats gonna suck.. Now what is the deal if I buy from Best Buy and use the rebate? It's still going to cost me 99 bucks for the 80 hour so I should just buy from Tivo correct? You guys bought directly from them before?

Thanks, Rose


----------



## Sirshagg

MikeMar said:


> But that says NOTHING about multi discount, which is the only way i'd get it


Don't kill the messenger man. 

Just buy it at your favorite local store on May 1. After rebate it will be $99 (so long as you active 1 year of service which can be at the MSD price)


----------



## TivoZorro

Will all of the shows I have stored on my external hard drive be able to be transfered to the new Dual Tuner Tivo? Or will this not work because it has a different MAK. If it won't work I'd be better off waiting until the summer after I've watched all those shows on my old Tivo rather than get the new Dual Tuner one now.


----------



## tomm1079

TivoZorro said:


> Will all of the shows I have stored on my external hard drive be able to be transfered to the new Dual Tuner Tivo? Or will this not work because it has a different MAK. If it won't work I'd be better off waiting until the summer after I've watched all those shows on my old Tivo rather than get the new Dual Tuner one now.


all tivos under the same account have the same mak


----------



## Rose4uKY

I want to know that too.. I have 2 tivos and I record so much that I have like 20 shows back in the bedroom not watched yet... I guess I'll start now and transfer a couple shows at a time from the Bed Room Tivo to the Living Room Tivo then when I get the new one I'll transfer them back If I have too.. I called Tivo just to make sure the new one and old one would still transfer shows back and forth and she said yes everything will be like before.. I usually go to Yahoo TV guide and pick on shows I want to record right from there... Like American Idol I never had a season pass set up cause sometimes I had to record in the BR and some times in the LR depending on these other shows I watch.. It will be nice now with 2 tuners not to have to worry about that... So If I chose to record 2 shows on the same time at Yahoo TV I guess it would know and automatically do one on each Tuner then I am guessing the remote will have a button tuner 1 and 2 maybe..

Ok I am ordering soon!! Rose


----------



## Jonathan_S

Rose4uKY said:


> I am guessing the remote will have a button tuner 1 and 2 maybe..


If it is anything like the DirecTiVo units the LiveTV button and the down arrow button can both be used to swap tuners. (Obviously only while in live TV).

And if you aren't watching live TV then you don't care because the TiVo handles scheduling on both tuners automatically.


----------



## lajohn27

aztivo said:


> If D* is saying this they are full of it... they may at some day cover 92% but that is a few years off


Yes they do say this.. Right on this webpage..

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/see/LocalChannels.jsp?init=true



DirecTV said:


> Local channels are an important part of your DIRECTV experience. That's why we offer local channels to more than 92% of the nation's TV households, with even more local market launches planned in the near future. Plus DIRECTV offers locals in HD in select markets. *


Remember.. they're talking 92% of total households.. not geographical area nor are they talking about 92% of all 200+ DMA's.. Currently they have locals for 143 DMA's.

Bangor, Maine for example does not have locals on DTV, but that's like less than 10,000 households.


----------



## BlackBetty

anyone have a link to amazon for the 80 hr unit? I know it isn't available till Monday...


----------



## Bierboy

BlackBetty said:


> anyone have a link to amazon for the 80 hr unit? I know it isn't available till Monday...


Here.

It does have a nice shot of the rear ports...


----------



## russwong

Wow, all this excitement for a box that should have been out 3 years ago and a hard drive size that should be 200 gig or higher...

I've been waiting for the HD Tivo for 2 years now!

Come on Tivo, please catch up!


----------



## Chip718

Here in Jamaica, NY to receive Time Warner cable you have to use one of their analog cable receivers. I don't one if anyone is familiar with this, but basically the cable line coming is scrambled and the TW box unscrambles the signal. TW implemented this a while ago to prevent people in apartment building from split the signals and using their cable-ready TVs.

My question is since the cable reciever "descrambles" the signal would I be able to use the TiVos dual tuner to record to shows at the same time?


----------



## BlackBetty

I am getting so moist!


----------



## Stu_Bee

Chip718 said:


> Here in Jamaica, NY to receive Time Warner cable you have to use one of their analog cable receivers. I don't one if anyone is familiar with this, but basically the cable line coming is scrambled and the TW box unscrambles the signal. TW implemented this a while ago to prevent people in apartment building from split the signals and using their cable-ready TVs.
> 
> My question is since the cable reciever "descrambles" the signal would I be able to use the TiVos dual tuner to record to shows at the same time?


If the box that unscrambles is also the channel changer, I'd have to say the answer is 'no'. There is only one serial/IR blaster on the box....so you can only control one external box.

I'm sure little clarifications like this will be posted on their site soon. (IE "Assumption: Your Basic Cable does not require a Cable box)


----------



## Puppy76

Chip718 said:


> Here in Jamaica, NY to receive Time Warner cable you have to use one of their analog cable receivers. I don't one if anyone is familiar with this, but basically the cable line coming is scrambled and the TW box unscrambles the signal. TW implemented this a while ago to prevent people in apartment building from split the signals and using their cable-ready TVs.
> 
> My question is since the cable reciever "descrambles" the signal would I be able to use the TiVos dual tuner to record to shows at the same time?


Do you have to tune channels on the cable box? Or do you tune channels on your TV or Tivo, after they've passed through the cable box? If it's the latter, then you should be able to use both tuners. If it's the former, then you'd only be able to use one tuner (since the cable box would only be outputing one channel at a time).


----------



## Bierboy

BlackBetty said:


> I am getting so moist!


TMI!!!


----------



## sirfergy

Is there a new rebate coming out that hasn't been announced? Everyone is saying it'll be $99 after rebate. 

Similarly, if i bought to TiVos with the rebate that expires 4/30, would I qualify for a new rebate that started 5/1 so I could buy the DT TiVo?


----------



## Chip718

Puppy76 said:


> Do you have to tune channels on the cable box? Or do you tune channels on your TV or Tivo, after they've passed through the cable box? If it's the latter, then you should be able to use both tuners. If it's the former, then you'd only be able to use one tuner (since the cable box would only be outputing one channel at a time).


I have to tune the channels on the box. TW stinks!


----------



## Sirshagg

sirfergy said:


> Similarly, if i bought to TiVos with the rebate that expires 4/30, would I qualify for a new rebate that started 5/1 so I could buy the DT TiVo?


I'd like to know this too. The T&C state " (16) Limit two rebates per household. ". I would think this is the limit per the rebate offer itself and not a limit on future rebate offers. But then the new rebate could disqualify people how have taken advantage of previous rebate offers.


----------



## jlb

Sorry if this is an unsmeek, but do we know if there will be a non-prepay bundle price, i.e., like the $19.95 for one year on the non-DT S2s?


----------



## ZeoTiVo

jlb said:


> Sorry if this is an unsmeek, but do we know if there will be a non-prepay bundle price, i.e., like the $19.95 for one year on the non-DT S2s?


when you see the DT boxes in the retail stores  MAy 1st


----------



## classicsat

Einselen said:


> * February 17, 2009: In legislation passed in early Feb. 2006, the U.S. Congress chose this date for the "analog shut-off," when all TV stations would be required to turn off their analog signals and broadcast only digital signals.


Exactly. Applies to OTA TV broadcasters only not cable.


----------



## classicsat

Einselen said:


> Also what about the law of cable having to be all digital in 2009? In 3 years the government is mandating that we are on digital. So the life of the box is 3 years before it becomes just another series 2 TiVo. Or am I just confused on this 2009 Digital Bill?


You are confusing OTA specifically with TV delivery methods in general. The law only applies to OTA TV broadcasting.


----------



## Dan203

ZeoTiVo said:


> when you see the DT boxes in the retail stores  MAy 1st


I think he's talking about the "no upfront cost" bundles. Those are only available through TiVo, not retail. I'm guessing TiVo will start offering these bundles as soon as their inventory of single tuner units runs out.

Dan


----------



## TiVoPony

sirfergy said:


> Is there a new rebate coming out that hasn't been announced? Everyone is saying it'll be $99 after rebate.
> 
> Similarly, if i bought to TiVos with the rebate that expires 4/30, would I qualify for a new rebate that started 5/1 so I could buy the DT TiVo?


Just to be clear, I think you meant "if I bought two TiVos with the rebate that expires 4/30...", correct?

I don't think you'll have any issue. If you do, let us know and we'll look into it.

AND...just to be really clear...rebates don't apply to bundle plan purchases from tivo.com.

Cheers,
Pony


----------



## TiVoPony

jlb said:


> Sorry if this is an unsmeek, but do we know if there will be a non-prepay bundle price, i.e., like the $19.95 for one year on the non-DT S2s?


Nothing announced yet. The only option at the moment is the one year pre-pay on tivo.com.

Cheers,
Pony


----------



## sirfergy

Yeah, I meant "two". Does that mean there is a rebate coming up?


----------



## terryfoster

classicsat said:


> Exactly. [The Analog Cut Off Date] Applies to OTA TV broadcasters only[,] not cable.


Not so fast my friend. It is my understanding, under current law, cable operators are not allowed to "downrez" digital video to analog from OTA providers. I'm currently trying to find a resource that refers to this, but this means you'll probably lose your locals in 2009 unless you have a STB or digital tuner.


----------



## MickeS

russwong said:


> Wow, all this excitement for a box that should have been out 3 years ago and a hard drive size that should be 200 gig or higher...


Gotta agree with you there. The problem back then was 1) that the price would've been too high as to make it unattractive to most buyers and 2) that there was no DT competition. These factors combined to make it undesirable for TiVo to produce a DT at that time, and they instead focused on software development.

One could argue though that at least they could already back then have implemented RF + cablebox, and in effect gotten a dual tuner unit. But, like I wrote above... I think since there was no real competition with DT available, they chose to focus on other areas instead.


----------



## Dan203

terryfoster said:


> Not so fast my friend. It is my understanding, under current law, cable operators are not allowed to "downrez" digital video to analog from OTA providers. I'm currently trying to find a resource that refers to this, but this means you'll probably lose your locals in 2009 unless you have a STB or digital tuner.


That would suck! However even if that's true it's 3 years away. A $100 for a box you'll get at least 3 good years of use from seems pretty reasonable to me.

Dan


----------



## Einselen

Sirshagg said:


> Don't kill the messenger man.
> 
> Just buy it at your favorite local store on May 1. After rebate it will be $99 (so long as you active 1 year of service which can be at the MSD price)


The current rebates on the 540s has that you get $150 back if you activate at least a year's service (value $154). You are saying that say I had lifetime already, went out and bought the box today I could do a years service at the MSD price for $6.95 and pay only $83.40 and still get the $150 rebate? Has this been done before and can someone confirm this?

If this can't be done then it is better to go through TiVo and buy the box for $254 and then after the year drop down to $6.95/month so you don't have to deal with the rebate (if there is one, still no official proof there will be) and pay tax on $250.


----------



## BlackBetty

Dan203 said:


> $100 for a box you'll get at least 3 good years of use from seems pretty reasonable to me.
> 
> Dan


I'll drink to that. I paid $300 after Rebate for my first 80 hr TiVo unit 2 years ago. About 3 months or so after that, the prices plumetted and you could find 40hr boxes for $100. I am not bitter about this at all. 2 years later, it was worth every penny and then some!


----------



## sirfergy

It was my understainding that the $150 was independant of how much you actually paid, as long as you sign up for 1 year. I even called and that's what the rep told me.


----------



## GrumpyGuy

sirfergy said:


> The two 80 hour tivos i bought are getting returned tonight!!!! I can't wait to get two ( or three ) of these babies!


You are lucky! I'm just past my 30 days and was told by TIVO CSR that I'm SOL.

Muchas Gracias TIVO


----------



## Einselen

sirfergy said:


> It was my understainding that the $150 was independant of how much you actually paid, as long as you sign up for 1 year. I even called and that's what the rep told me.


I guess I should clarify some then. Does TiVo offer a 1 yr committment at the MSD price? I know TiVo offers 1 year for $12.95/month making it about $154, but do they offer 1 year for $6.95/month which would be $83.40? Because in order to get the $150 rebate you have to sign a contract for at least 1 year service, not pay monthly.


----------



## BlackBetty

GrumpyGuy said:


> You are lucky! I'm just past my 30 days and was told by TIVO CSR that I'm SOL.
> 
> Muchas Gracias TIVO


There are reasons why rules are in place. So sorry TiVo actually is playing by the rules. 

There is always ebay to recoup your costs.


----------



## Dan203

Einselen said:


> I guess I should clarify some then. Does TiVo offer a 1 yr committment at the MSD price? I know TiVo offers 1 year for $12.95/month making it about $154, but do they offer 1 year for $6.95/month which would be $83.40? Because in order to get the $150 rebate you have to sign a contract for at least 1 year service, not pay monthly.


You can buy a 1 year gift card and apply it to your account. At that point your monthly service fee will be taken off the card until it's depleted.

Dan


----------



## Stu_Bee

Adam1115 said:


> That's not true at all. But don't let the truth or lack of any references stop you from arguing with people about it...


Maybe this is what he is referring to:
http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?p=31044#post31044

"After the transition in 2009, millions of cable homes will still have analog-TV sets. Must-carry digital-TV stations will lose access to those cable homes until those homes have digital-TV sets or set-tops."


----------



## terryfoster

Adam1115 said:


> That's not true at all. But don't let the truth or lack of any references stop you from arguing with people about it...


Rather than shooting from the hip you _could_ provide proof to your side 

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6295306.html

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6327947.html


----------



## Dan203

Hmmm... I wonder if TiVo could develope a converter box, with serial or USB control, and sell it for less then $40. If they could it sounds like the government will pick up the tab for anyone who needed one. 

Dan


----------



## BillyT2002

TiVoPony said:


> I read that rumor floating around the forum as well. The Series2 systems support MPEG2. That's one of the things that makes them Series2.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


Did you just indirectly make an assertion that there will be an upcoming series 4 which will support MPEG-4? (J/K)


----------



## Dan203

BillyT2002 said:


> Did you just indirectly make an assertion that there will be an upcoming series 4 which will support MPEG-4? (J/K)


No the Series 3 will support MPEG-4. He was simply discrediting the rumor that the Series 2 DT might also support MPEG-4. (a rumor which I myself had a hand in starting )

Dan


----------



## davezatz

Dan203 said:


> He was simply discrediting the rumor that the Series 2 DT might also support MPEG-4. (a rumor which I myself had a hand in starting )


It sounded good to me! Speculation is fun. Gives us something to do between product announcements.  Speaking of which, where's that new TiVo Desktop software and what's the nature of this Blockbuster deal?


----------



## MickeS

Actually, he didn't deny that it supports MPEG4, he only stated that it supports MPEG2.


----------



## doors1963

did anyone that ordered one get confirmation that their unit shipped today? I was really hoping I would have it before 5/1 when I could get it in the store, but it doesn't look like that will happen.


----------



## Jonathan_S

MickeS said:


> Actually, he didn't deny that it supports MPEG4, he only stated that it supports MPEG2.


Based on his phrasing he might have been talking about a rumor that the S2-DT used MPEG4 for recording; rather than the more plausible rumor that it supported MPEG4 playback for downloaded videos, in addition to its MPEG2 recording / playback for normal use.

And he didn't address the rumor (which I think I had a hand in starting) that the S2-DT might downres and play back HD video from a S3 unit. After all that is MPEG2 video, just HD res MPEG2.


----------



## aindik

Chip718 said:


> Here in Jamaica, NY to receive Time Warner cable you have to use one of their analog cable receivers. I don't one if anyone is familiar with this, but basically the cable line coming is scrambled and the TW box unscrambles the signal. TW implemented this a while ago to prevent people in apartment building from split the signals and using their cable-ready TVs.
> 
> My question is since the cable reciever "descrambles" the signal would I be able to use the TiVos dual tuner to record to shows at the same time?


That's what Time Warner tells you, but have you actually tried it? There may be some channels (like, your locals) that are in the clear even though Time Warner never tells you about them.

Take the cable directly from your wall and plug it directly into your TV, and do a scan. See what it comes up with. Whatever those channels are, those are the channels that your second tuner will be able to record from, if your first is busy.


----------



## Shawn95GT

Sevenfeet said:


> This is truly good news today since this product is long, long, loooooong overdue. But the more I think about it, the more concerns I have.
> 
> First, this is clearly a stopgap product for people who want to record two programs at once but don't want to do it through either DirecTV, Echostar and crappy Comcast DVRs. For HD owners, this product won't solve our issues (Series 3 will sometime this year). But there are other issues.
> 
> Many cable customers have digital cable and that means we're still on the cable box + tivo box marriage that I first did in 1999...and it was as crappy a marraige then as now. In 2006, you'd think we'd have graduated to either cablecards or something else more reliable than IR blasters. But we're still doing it old school with this box. Sure we can do two programs at once, but if you want to record the Sopranos at the same time as another digital cable channel, you're out of luck. The only good thing is that Tivo's ability to find rerun shows is far superior than any other technology out there.
> 
> The other problem with this scenario is that cablecos are moving away from analog channels as fast as they can to retrieve their inefficient use of bandwidth. A few cities are already all digital or doing digital simulcast in preparation of going all digital. Once that happens, this Tivo is only good enough to be a single tuner model again. Don't think this will be a problem since the all-digital changeover is slow? How many of you are still using a Series 1 Tivo from 5+ years ago? Or a Series 2 from 3 years ago?
> 
> The Series 3 Tivo will reportedly not have this problem. But this Series "2.5" model fills a gap that needed to be filled two+ years ago. This product is better late than never, but I fear that it's best feature may be shorter lived than the product itself.


Maybe Tivo will upgrade the software (heck maybe the current software will do it) so that you can do two digital cable tuners. One via s-video / composite, and the other via RF channel 4.

I'm doing 'Satellite' (Voom STB tuning ATSC off-air, connected to Tivo by S-video) and Cable with a box (RF channel 4) on two of my S2 Tivos now.

If the DT's software will let you run two boxes, very cool. The problem is likely with the IR blasters as you'd probably have two identical cable boxes so they both be affected by the remote codes. I say let that be our problem to find two different cable boxes .

It seems to only be especially usefull for analog cable subscribers. It seems to be an odd audience to target.

As a VDSL user, this box is still a single tuner box for me. I could probably pair VDSL and an ATSC tuner on one box to take advantage of the dual tuners but I wouldnt' really gain anything vs my current setup.

Add some kind of USB ATSC tuner upgrade and have options for anamorphic or letterbox for the HD downconversion and I'd order one today.

I'll be the goofball using a pair of S3 Tivos to record off-air ATSC.


----------



## kdwarren

I got one today from TiVo. My hubby has been waiting for one with the ethernet. We have a house that is wired in each room. We figured we could buy the series 3 later when we finally upgrade to a hdtv. 

This will be my second box. I hope I can transfer all my season passes over to the new box easily. Any tips?

Thanks!
Karen


----------



## MichaelK

MickeS said:


> In the press release they write "The TiVo Series2 DT DVR is optimized for cable households". In the CNet review, it says the RF input does not work with over-the-air antenna.
> 
> I think it's safe to say that it does not work with OTA broadcasts, for the reasons that have been speculated about in the forum before.


Is that just a disclaimer sort of thing?

If I understand correctly a cable tuner follows the NTSC standard and uses the correct frequencies for 2-13 and 14-67(or whatever the top uhf cahnnel is?) and then adds in the higher number channels in gaps between UHF and VHF. So if you feed a cable Tuner with an OTA antenna wont it see the VHF and UHF channels?

If you are lucky enough that your local cable system keeps all the NTSC channels on their real channels (eg doesnt move channel 51 to channel 14) then you could just tell the tivo you have analog cable and delete all but the OTA channels from the list- no?

Am I missing something?

As long as your cable company iusnt screwing with channel numbers you should be fine- I **THINK**???


----------



## Stu_Bee

Yeah..I too thought the new dual series 2 would include mpeg4 playback. They appear to be holding off on any new features for the Series 3.
Since the concept of dual-channel recording was already present in the directivo Series 2's, the probably consider this just an extension of already existing series 2 technology.


----------



## MichaelK

aztivo said:


> If D* is saying this they are full of it... they may at some day cover 92% but that is a few years off


I believe it is correct that they cover 92% of the POPULATION not 92% of the area.


----------



## TiVoPony

Jonathan_S said:


> Based on his phrasing he might have been talking about a rumor that the S2-DT used MPEG4 for recording; rather than the more plausible rumor that it supported MPEG4 playback for downloaded videos, in addition to its MPEG2 recording / playback for normal use.
> 
> And he didn't address the rumor (which I think I had a hand in starting) that the S2-DT might downres and play back HD video from a S3 unit. After all that is MPEG2 video, just HD res MPEG2.


No no and no. The DT is not an MPEG4 box, nor does it have the ability to handle MPEG4 or HD content (let alone transcode or downres it).

You want a Series3 for MPEG4 playback.

Pony


----------



## aindik

Am I correct in assuming that the prepay is for "one year of TiVo service," and not "$155 of TiVo service?" 

I'd prepay the $155 if I knew that it would be debited at $6.95 a month and not $12.95 a month (like a gift card as described earlier in the thread). IOW, if they want me to, I'd prepay for 22 months of service at $6.95. But something tells me that's not an option, so I'll have to deal with rebates. 

Can anyone yet confirm this "separate lineups" setup? My "cable ready" lineup and my "cable box analog tier" lineups are completely different (same channels on different numbers). I want to be able to tell the unit that I get NBC and ABC only on the analog feed (i.e. it's not a Channel I Receive on the digital tuner), and still be able to record from NBC and ABC at the same time.


----------



## TiVoPony

aindik said:


> Am I correct in assuming that the prepay is for "one year of TiVo service," and not "$155 of TiVo service?"
> 
> I'd prepay the $155 if I knew that it would be debited at $6.95 a month and not $12.95 a month (like a gift card as described earlier in the thread). IOW, if they want me to, I'd prepay for 22 months of service at $6.95. But something tells me that's not an option, so I'll have to deal with rebates.
> 
> Can anyone yet confirm this "separate lineups" setup? My "cable ready" lineup and my "cable box analog tier" lineups are completely different (same channels on different numbers). I want to be able to tell the unit that I get NBC and ABC only on the analog feed (i.e. it's not a Channel I Receive on the digital tuner), and still be able to record from NBC and ABC at the same time.


The offer people have reported here is a bundled service+box offer from tivo.com. It's not eligible for either a rebate or for MSD. It's a box and one year of service.

Pony


----------



## zyuray

How do you guys get analog cable without a cable box? If I try watching analog cable without a box, it comes out all screwed up. I only get a handful of channels, and the channel numbering is totally off.


----------



## jsmeeker

TiVoPony said:


> The offer people have reported here is a bundled service+box offer from tivo.com. It's not eligible for either a rebate or for MSD. It's a box and one year of service.
> 
> Pony


is it eligible for MSD AFTER the initial one year discount (assuming you have another TiVo that also qualifies)?

I know I'm probably smeeking this, but it's an active thread and I just can't help being myself.


----------



## jsmeeker

zyuray said:


> How do you guys get analog cable without a cable box? If I try watching analog cable without a box, it comes out all screwed up. I only get a handful of channels, and the channel numbering is totally off.


It's just the way the cable company does it. Until very, very late in 2005, it's the ONLY way I could get cable. Now, I can get Digital with a Box, but I can still get (and do get) analog cable. I can't get ALL the channels that Comcast actually offers in my market, but I get enough to be pretty satisfied.


----------



## aztivo

lajohn27 said:


> Yes they do say this.. Right on this webpage..
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/see/LocalChannels.jsp?init=true
> 
> Remember.. they're talking 92% of total households.. not geographical area nor are they talking about 92% of all 200+ DMA's.. Currently they have locals for 143 DMA's.
> 
> Bangor, Maine for example does not have locals on DTV, but that's like less than 10,000 households.


sorry in my mind i was thinking HD


----------



## aztivo

TiVoPony said:


> No no and no. The DT is not an MPEG4 box, nor does it have the ability to handle MPEG4 or HD content (let alone transcode or downres it).
> 
> You want a Series3 for MPEG4 playback.
> 
> Pony


Yes I do so can i have one now??


----------



## jlb

Dan203 said:


> I think he's talking about the "no upfront cost" bundles. Those are only available through TiVo, not retail. I'm guessing TiVo will start offering these bundles as soon as their inventory of single tuner units runs out.
> 
> Dan


Dan is exactly right....that is what I meant. And thanks to Pony for chiming in on this.

Put it this way, WAF could play a part in outlaying money for the combination bundle of box plus service of $254. WAF is almost moot if I can say I could pay a little more per month in Year 1 for the one box than the two S2/monthlies that I pay now......followed by $12.95 instead of $19.90 per month in Year 2+. That's all.


----------



## MichaelK

terryfoster said:


> Not so fast my friend. It is my understanding, under current law, cable operators are not allowed to "downrez" digital video to analog from OTA providers. I'm currently trying to find a resource that refers to this, but this means you'll probably lose your locals in 2009 unless you have a STB or digital tuner.





Adam1115 said:


> That's not true at all. But don't let the truth or lack of any references stop you from arguing with people about it...


Id have to poke around AVS HD forums for the specifics but I think there is some semblance of fact there. Just confused and twisted

If I recall the FCC regulation only states that the cable companies MUST provide the main ATSC subchannel (x-1) substantially the same way they receive it. The point is if a station bothers to have an HD feed than cable cant just downrez it to sd crap. But there is no stipulation from providing an analog downrezzed *simulcast*of that feed. So for example in NY analog channel 2 digital equivalent is on channel 56 and is called 2-1. So there is nothing saying come 2009 that cable cant send 2-1 over 56 (and will be invisible to analog subs) and then also downrez 2-1 into an analog form and put that on channel 2.

Depends on the cable companies situation- in NYC and other pirate happy places where boxes are already being required for everyone they likely wont bother and they will hand out SD boxes to analog sub and the box will downconvert to SD analog. But in Podunk (sp?) where onlyu 10% of subs have a box in 2009 it might be cheaper for the provider to do a simulcast in analog which only requires one converter at the head end rather then supply boxes to 90% of the subs without boxes.


----------



## Jonathan_S

TiVoPony said:


> No no and no. The DT is not an MPEG4 box, nor does it have the ability to handle MPEG4 or HD content (let alone transcode or downres it).
> 
> You want a Series3 for MPEG4 playback.
> 
> Pony


Thanks for nailing that down.

TiVoPony slayer of rumors 
(it could be your new forum title)


----------



## ZeoTiVo

TiVoPony said:


> The offer people have reported here is a bundled service+box offer from tivo.com. It's not eligible for either a rebate or for MSD. It's a box and one year of service.
> 
> Pony


clears that up.

Have you said if the Dual Tuner box is going to be in retail stores and when that might happen. Also if you can say what price or rebate would be involved at the retail level. Thanks for all your input here in the thread :up:


----------



## aindik

zyuray said:


> How do you guys get analog cable without a cable box? If I try watching analog cable without a box, it comes out all screwed up. I only get a handful of channels, and the channel numbering is totally off.


That's exactly how I watch it.  I'd use this new box only as a dual tuner for local channels (which are in the clear, though on the wrong channel numbers), which, truth be told, is where the majority of my Season Passes (and conflicts) are.

And, in some markets, there is no such thing as an analog cable box. All the channels are in the clear. I don't happen to live in one, but I used to.

There may be (I'm not sure) an FCC rule that requries local channels to be available unscrambled and without a box.


----------



## MichaelK

terryfoster said:


> Rather than shooting from the hip you _could_ provide proof to your side
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6295306.html
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6327947.html


Seems like the issue is not decided- I was mistaken.

It appears the cable folks feel current law allows them to convert and simulcast but that the NAB doesnt believe that.

A provision in a recent bill codyifying the cable position was removed but it did not say that the NAB was correct.

I guess we can wait for the FCC to weigh in or the lawsuits to decide who is correct.

first article 12/29


> The House bill had included language designed to avoid the mass deployment of set-tops, providing relief to large and small MSOs in different ways.
> 
> But House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman Joe Barton (R-Texas) agreed to remove it after Senate Budget Committee chairman Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) -- with the encouragement of the National Association of Broadcasters -- raised procedural objections.
> 
> Under the House bill, high-capacity cable systems would have been required to carry must-carry TV stations in analog and digital for five years after the transition, with cable having the right to degrade HDTV signals to standard definition.
> 
> Small cable operators, again for the first five years, gained permission to transmit must-carry digital-TV signals in analog -- a concession to their technical constraints in transmitting local TV signals in both analog and digital.


second article from yesterday



> Las Vegas -- Ensuring that every analog-only cable subscriber can view digital-TV signals is "critical" to completing a smooth transition to all-digital broadcasting in February 2009, Federal Communications Commission chairman Kevin Martin said Tuesday.
> ...
> 
> Congress last year passed a law mandating the cutoff of analog TV Feb. 17, 2009, but many cable-carriage issues remain somewhat cloudy.
> 
> Martin seemed to be making the point that he is concerned that after Feb. 17, 2009, analog-cable homes could lose access to their local TV stations and subscribers with HD sets could receive analog signals.
> 
> "It can't be that the analog-cable subscribers are no longer going to be able to watch broadcast television because now [TV stations] are broadcasting in digital and that's only carried on the digital tier," he added.
> ...
> 
> The FCC, he added, might not need to conduct a rulemaking. "I think what we will say is that it has to be viewable, because thats what I think the statutes say," Martin said.
> 
> The National Cable & Telecommunications Association has said that if a cable operator carried a TV station in digital, it can also carry the station in analog, with downconversion of the digital signal occurring at the cable-system headend.
> 
> The NAB has said that downconversion, regardless of the circumstances, may occur only in a subscriber home, presumably with a set-top box. The NCTA prefers headend downconversion in order to avoid huge set-top-deployment costs and to permit analog subscribers to migrate to digital on their on own timetable.
> ...
> 
> Martin indicated that cable would not run afoul of the "viewable" test if it transmitted digital and analog versions of the same signal....


so cable has one postion broadcasters have another.

fcc guy says he is concerned there will only be digital or only cable, that rulemaking may not be required, and LAST SENTENCE- he thinks all is well if cable trasnmits digital AND analog versions.


----------



## Bierboy

jsmeeker said:


> ...I know I'm probably smeeking this, but it's an active thread and I just can't help being myself.


I liked it better when Pony smeeked me....oh, wait....you overruled me


----------



## TiVoPony

ZeoTiVo said:


> clears that up.
> 
> Have you said if the Dual Tuner box is going to be in retail stores and when that might happen. Also if you can say what price or rebate would be involved at the retail level. Thanks for all your input here in the thread :up:


I haven't said it, but all of that is in the press release...

Pony


----------



## tangojoker

Week too late. 
i got a 80 hrs TIVO 54 series for $220 - $220MIR + $155 activation for 1 yr last week
i am really interested in this dual tuner model. 

any suggestions if i should return the exsisting one and get the DT ?
i have digital cable.

Thanks
Tango


----------



## Fraser+Dief

lajohn27 said:


> Has anyone made note of the fact that these units won't do OTA tuning?
> 
> J


Is that a change from the S2 540 I currently have?


----------



## Adam1115

terryfoster said:


> Rather than shooting from the hip you _could_ provide proof to your side
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6295306.html
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6327947.html


What you said was "cable operators are not allowed to "downrez" digital video to analog from OTA providers."

Resolution has nothing to do with it. As far as cable companies converting to analog, as your articles point out, the FCC has not ruled one way or another. BUT, obviously the FCC is not going to MANDATE that everyone have a HDTV in order to watch cable or satellite. They WILL be able to downconvert it to analog SDTV. The question is, will it be downcovnerted at the headend or at the STB? I seriously doubt that the FCC will turn off analog cable broadcast channels requiring a STB for a handful of channels. More likely, they will require that they provide BOTH the analog and digital channels for no extra charge.


----------



## aindik

Adam1115 said:


> What you said was "cable operators are not allowed to "downrez" digital video to analog from OTA providers."
> 
> Resolution has nothing to do with it. As far as cable companies converting to analog, as your articles point out, the FCC has not ruled one way or another. BUT, obviously the FCC is not going to MANDATE that everyone have a HDTV in order to watch cable or satellite. They WILL be able to downconvert it to analog SDTV. The question is, will it be downcovnerted at the headend or at the STB? I seriously doubt that the FCC will turn off analog cable broadcast channels requiring a STB for a handful of channels. More likely, they will require that they provide BOTH the analog and digital channels for no extra charge.


Or, they can simply provide the digital channel at full resolution, and offer a box with composite out (or even RF out) for use with old TVs. All digital cable boxes have composite and RF out now. Why would that need to stop?


----------



## ZeoTiVo

TiVoPony said:


> I haven't said it, but all of that is in the press release...
> 
> Pony


from http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_88.html
"The TiVo Series2 DT DVR will join the existing TiVo product line, and is available in an 80-hour model priced at just $99.99, after rebate and service activation. It will also be available at tivo.com bundled with the TiVo service.

The TiVo Series2 DT DVR will be available beginning May 1, 2006 at retailers including Circuit City , Best Buy, and Amazon.com, and online at www.tivo.com. "

ah missed the 99$ in the press release first time through. skipped down to all the cool features coming out too quickly


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

zyuray said:


> How do you guys get analog cable without a cable box? If I try watching analog cable without a box, it comes out all screwed up. I only get a handful of channels, and the channel numbering is totally off.


Cable companies are different. I get around 80 channels without a box. I only need a box if I want premium channels, PPV, digital or HD service.


----------



## Bierboy

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Cable companies are different. I get around 80 channels without a box. I only need a box if I want premium channels, PPV, digital or HD service.


Same with Mediacom in our market...getting 80+ analog channels. I'll never get digital/HD cable....way too much $$ for the HD return. I'll just wait for S3 then get my HD OTA on all the major networks. I must admit, tho, I *would* enjoy ESPN-HD


----------



## DrewTivo

SMWinnie said:


> Yep. From the fine print in the e-mail I got, "Supports recording from cable and satellite sources only; does not support recording from over-the-air antenna."
> 
> I *think* this tells us that TiVo expects to continue to sell this platform after the ATSC mandate for over-the-air kicks in. After that, basically anything that tunes OTA has to have an ATSC tuner.


For a non-techie, how is analog cable different from OTA? Either plugs into the coax, right? (I'm not getting into the HDTV level signal, just my plain'ol OTA antenna)


----------



## Dan203

DrewTivo said:


> For a non-techie, how is analog cable different from OTA? Either plugs into the coax, right? (I'm not getting into the HDTV level signal, just my plain'ol OTA antenna)


I believe that channels 2-13 are the same, but after that they deviate. That's why TVs have to be "cable ready" to receive cable channels over 13.

Dan


----------



## kasnj

Sweet!!!


----------



## jfh3

kdwarren said:


> I got one today from TiVo. My hubby has been waiting for one with the ethernet. We have a house that is wired in each room. We figured we could buy the series 3 later when we finally upgrade to a hdtv.
> 
> This will be my second box. I hope I can transfer all my season passes over to the new box easily. Any tips?
> 
> Thanks!
> Karen


You got one of the new DT models from Tivo already? The offer only came out yesterday ...

As for transferring SP, no simple transfer utility.


----------



## jstaso

What are the differences between this new box and the Series 3 that is coming out?


----------



## SullyND

jstaso said:


> What are the differences between this new box and the Series 3 that is coming out?


The same as the difference between an old S2 and the S3, except the DT and S3 both have the ability to record two shows at once and have a built-in ethernet port. Other than that the DT is 'just' an ST with the ability to record two shows at once, and an ethernet port.

Among the many features the S3 will have that the S2 ST and S2 DT do not, the biggest (IMHO) is Cable-card.


----------



## MoneyMINTR

The S2 dual tuner is back on amazon for pre-ordering, but the price went up a little to MSRP $249 for the 80 hour


----------



## Bierboy

It's been there all day today...only thing different is the price.


----------



## 1283

I would be a little concerned about pre-ordering because the "order date" would be 4/xx instead of 5/xx. If the new rebate specifies 5/1, then there may be hassles to deal with.


----------



## andyman58

So, I've got digital cable, which requires the cable box...how's the tivo gonna record 2 shows at once, unless one is off the analog side of the cable???????

That would really limit the programming I could record. 


I'll just keep my series 2......And record off my DVD recorder if I need to record off of analog.


----------



## ChuckyBox

kdwarren said:


> This will be my second box. I hope I can transfer all my season passes over to the new box easily. Any tips?


Yes -- take the cover off of the box, take several close up digital pictures of the components, then post the pictures here. This won't help you transfer your season passes, but it will make some of us happy.


----------



## derekcrow1970

I was really excited to see a new version come out that had ethernet built in and the ability to record 2 channels at the same time.

:down: I was really upset  when I called and they told me that upgrading to the new box would cause me to loose my life time subscription and that they don't even offer the life time subscription any more.

They advised me that my life time subscription will stay with the box I first registered it on unless I trade it in for ONLY THE EXACT same model due to hardware failure or something like that.

SO basically I have to stay with the older box or loose my 299.00 life time subscription.

I cant believe they don't allow upgrades........................


----------



## Prozium

derekcrow1970 said:


> I was really excited to see a new version come out that had ethernet built in and the ability to record 2 channels at the same time.
> 
> :down: I was really upset  when I called and they told me that upgrading to the new box would cause me to loose my life time subscription and that they don't even offer the life time subscription any more.
> 
> They advised me that my life time subscription will stay with the box I first registered it on unless I trade it in for ONLY THE EXACT same model due to hardware failure or something like that.
> 
> SO basically I have to stay with the older box or loose my 299.00 life time subscription.
> 
> I cant believe they don't allow upgrades........................


That's been the situation for years. Lifetime stays with the box, not the owners account. Since you already have a lifetime unit service on the DT would be eligible for the MSD rate if $6.95/month. You would have to wait for the unit to hit retail and buy it at $250 (-$150 rebate = $99) to only be charged the $6.95/mo.


----------



## cybah

You know.. as SOON as I buy another Tivo just so I can record yet another channel at the same time.. this comes out.

I'm seriously tempted to dump both S2's I have (keeping the Humax of course) and getting one of these. $255 doesnt sound bad with prepaid service.

But...

I have alot of guests sometimes over.. and they see I am a gadget geek. I have everything.. except HDTV. And they ask why... and besides me stating that I don't think "its there yet", but Tivo doenst support HDTV. Why buy a HDTV, when 100% of the TV I watch is NTSC. (I rarely watch any movies.. too busy watching Tivo LOL). Really .. Tivo is the only reason why I haven't moved to HDTV (since I get uber cheap discounts on TVs from where I work).

bah.. decisions decisions.

Can TivoPony or someone give a synopsis of what going to be new in Series3 vs what's in the S2 DT? (or atleast point me to a helpful thread). This will help me decide! 

Thanks!


----------



## jstaso

One bad thing about this new box is it only records 80 hours. My current box is a 140-hour and I like to record everything at best quality.

Why don't they offer more disk space?


----------



## Rose4uKY

Ok I did it I odered the DT Tivo today... I figured right now I am paying to Tivo fees 12.95 and 6.95.. So me pre paying 12.95 for 1 year and still paying 6.95 on my second Tivo is fine by me.. And 99 bucks wasn't bad at all.. Right now my LR Tivo is my 1st main one at 12.95. My BR one is my 2nd one at 6.95.. I have Digital cable in my LR and Basic Cable with no box in my BR getting channels 2-99... I record most stuff on the regular basic cable channels anyway and delete right away but I still I record at the lowest quality to get more space cause I stay so far behind I have a ton of shows on each Tivo to catch up on..

So I ordered today and she said it would take 4 business days so I am expecting it Mon or Tues... She said she had over a 100 orders today alone.. I need to watch as much as I can this weekend to get it off the BR TIvo and transfer some to my LR Tivo and myabe transfer it back when I get the new one.. I was told this new one has a built in Wireless adapter so I won't be needing the one I have.. I have a Link Sys router and a Link Sys wireless adapter back in my BR. I just got another wireless adapter for my LR Tivo about 6 months ago and BB didn't have the same adapter so I got some Net Gear one.. So now I need to sell my BR 80 hour S2 Tivo. If I get 99 bucks I am even so that would be nice.. Since I have 2 Tivos 80 hours is plenty for me.. I can't wait to get it. I am off work for a week so maybe I can get caught up on my shows.. I have a 1 BR condo so there is no way to keep all 3 Tivos two is enough for me.. I am sure for 99 bucks someone will buy my 80 hour S2... If not I may give it to my brother..


----------



## mick66

Rose4uKY said:


> I was told this new one has a built in Wireless adapter so I won't be needing the one I have..


No, the DT Tivo has a an ethernet port for a wired connection. If you want to go wireless, you'll need to keep the adapter you have.


----------



## Rose4uKY

That's what I thought.. I now have wirless adapters plugged up via USB.. But this lady tried telling me it had a built in wireless adapter.. She was thinking of the wired ethernet I am sure.. I do have another question my Tivo now works fine in my bedroom. I have a 20 inch TV that came from best Buy some brand I never heard of.. I remember Tivo didn't recognize it and I had to call and do something else with the remote to get it to work the TV.. But my TV doesn't have S Video that doesn't matter does it? Is that a big deal? I know my Tivo works now ok so I am assuming no it doesn't.. I just hope to get this hooked up easy and going qucikly.. I was told just look at the old one and plug everything in the same way to the new one.. I have an old VCR back there too that is plugged up even though I don't use it but in case I need to transfer something for someone on a tape it's there.


----------



## cwerdna

terryfoster said:


> Not so fast my friend. It is my understanding, under current law, cable operators are not allowed to "downrez" digital video to analog from OTA providers. I'm currently trying to find a resource that refers to this, but this means you'll probably lose your locals in 2009 unless you have a STB or digital tuner.


I raised the question about whether it was true that analog transmission over cable would vanish awhile ago in another thread. I wonder if an authority in the know (like the FCC) has a FAQ on this.

I originally figured it applied to ALL analog transmissions (OTA and cable) and then later (actually months ago) heard that it wouldn't apply to cable... I'm not sure who's right.


----------



## cwerdna

zyuray said:


> How do you guys get analog cable without a cable box? If I try watching analog cable without a box, it comes out all screwed up. I only get a handful of channels, and the channel numbering is totally off.


That's the way all of these people get/got it:
- my parents in San Jose
- two friends in Sunnyvale
- a friend in Mountain View
- me when I lived in Santa Clara for a month 
- me when I I lived in Bellevue, WA and Seattle, WA
- me and my parents at the house I'm at now a few years ago [dunno now, I have DirecTV now]

None of us have/had cable boxes.

You should look up what you are supposed to be able to get in your area w/o a cable box and set your TV (assuming it is cable ready) to cable mode. If you don't, you'll only get 2-13, a few screwed up in the wrong channel locations and miss the rest. RTFM of your TV.


----------



## cwerdna

Ben_Jamin75 said:


> What about season passes on "basic" channels..... For example for me, my NBC is 13 with a box, and 8 without a box. Currently I record everything via cablebox.
> 
> If I set-up a season pass for a NBC show as "13" and have a confilct with recording something off HBO (300), will the box know it can record it with the analog tuner on 8?


I doubt it. I'd imagine that all the NBC shows will show up twice when you search by title as something like Foobar Show (13 KNBC) and Foobar Show (8 KNBC). You should just set 2 SPs w/13 being the one w/higher priority.


----------



## mick66

Rose4uKY said:


> I just hope to get this hooked up easy and going qucikly..


You shouldn't need anything connected any differently than you do now. I've had several Tivos pass through my posession lately and all I ever did was disconnect cables from the back of the "old" tivo including the power cord and just plug the old cables into the "new" tivo. I think one of the power cords I'm using now is actually from my old vcr.


----------



## mick66

If you didn't get the offer via e-mail...
http://tivo.com/0.11.offer.DT.asp


----------



## murgatroyd

Ruth said:


> :up: to TiVo. Looks like a great product, and one that we've been asking about for a while. Thanks!
> 
> As for me, I want one I want one I want one! oooooooooh do I want one!
> 
> But I'm not sure it makes any sense. I already have a 140 hour lifetimed S2. I'd love two tuners, but I definetely need more than 80 hours. So if the DTs only go up to 80 hours, I can't get the DT in place of what I already have. And I don't need three tuners, so adding a DT to my setup seems a little unnecessary and wasteful.
> 
> Do we know if there will be any bigger DTs that 80 hours? Do we know if they're upgradable? And has anyone actually seen one for sale without a service bundle (so that lifetimers can use MSD)?


Don't need three tuners? Lucky Ruth!

On Tuesdays I currently have a four-way conflict, so if I had one of the new DT units I could press it into service right away. I agree that 80 hours seems a little tight for a dual-tuner unit, however.

(Like you, I have one TiVo with Lifetime, so I'd also want to take advantage of the MSD.)

Jan


----------



## Bierboy

Rose4uKY said:


> ...So I ordered today and she said it would take 4 business days so I am expecting it Mon or Tues...She said she had over a 100 orders today alone....


 That certainly doesn't sound like very many orders, to me...especially for something that's getting so much hype...


----------



## dpoterek

I understand the Series 3 will record anything - analog, digitial, HD. So why buy a series 2 dual tuner and limit yourself to just 2 tuners with no HD capability??

Today you may not need the HD - but you never know in the future what you may want. Why limit yourself when the series 3 can do it all and is soon to launch??

Tivo - quite wasting time and put out the real deal (series 3) that the market is waiting for.


----------



## matthewwhite

I'm trying to talk my wife into letting me order one...


----------



## ZeoTiVo

Bierboy said:


> That certainly doesn't sound like very many orders, to me...especially for something that's getting so much hype...


most likely it was the one CSR had 100 orders in one day. The CSR sounded like a third party order taker who was reading from scripts about what the TiVo has and how to hook it up. Most likely an order taker working from her own home I speculate


----------



## ZeoTiVo

murgatroyd said:


> Don't need three tuners? Lucky Ruth!
> 
> On Tuesdays I currently have a four-way conflict, so if I had one of the new DT units I could press it into service right away. I agree that 80 hours seems a little tight for a dual-tuner unit, however.
> 
> (Like you, I have one TiVo with Lifetime, so I'd also want to take advantage of the MSD.)
> 
> Jan


yes, this TiVo needs to be upgradeable hard drive wise so I can go nuts recording all kinds of things.


----------



## davezatz

jstaso said:


> One bad thing about this new box is it only records 80 hours. My current box is a 140-hour and I like to record everything at best quality. Why don't they offer more disk space?


I believe there is another model coming out which will have a 180HR capacity if you're not comfortable upgrading the hard drive yourself.


----------



## greg_burns

dpoterek said:


> I understand the Series 3 will record anything - analog, digitial, HD.


The S3 will have the same analog limitation as these new DT units, right? It can record OTA ATSC, but not analog (if I understand correctly).

Edit: bad info! Dan corrected me here


----------



## terryfoster

Adam1115 said:


> What you said was "cable operators are not allowed to "downrez" digital video to analog from OTA providers."
> 
> Resolution has nothing to do with it. As far as cable companies converting to analog, as your articles point out, the FCC has not ruled one way or another. BUT, obviously the FCC is not going to MANDATE that everyone have a HDTV in order to watch cable or satellite. They WILL be able to downconvert it to analog SDTV. The question is, will it be downcovnerted at the headend or at the STB? I seriously doubt that the FCC will turn off analog cable broadcast channels requiring a STB for a handful of channels. More likely, they will require that they provide BOTH the analog and digital channels for no extra charge.


Ok, yes I completely agree that STBs will be allowed to convert the digital signals to analog, but it seems pretty clear to me that cable cos are fighting to get the rights to do this at the head end.

The point I was trying to make is that cable cos *will be affected* by the 2009 digital-tv bill. Sure all sorts of analog signals could still be transmitted over cable, but local channels, under the current legislation, cannot be converted to analog.

"Downrez" is a poor but common term used in some parts of the AVS forum. I understand it oversimplifies the procedure, but resolution DOES have something to do with it when, in some cases, you would need to convert 1080i ATSC to 480i NTSC, you are downgrading the resolution while also changing the format.



12/29 Article said:


> The House bill had included language designed to *avoid the mass deployment of set-tops*, providing relief to large and small MSOs in different ways.
> 
> But House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman Joe Barton (R-Texas) *agreed to remove it* after Senate Budget Committee chairman Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) -- with the encouragement of the National Association of Broadcasters -- raised procedural objections.
> ...
> After the transition in 2009, millions of cable homes will still have analog-TV sets. Must-carry digital-TV stations will lose access to those cable homes until those homes have digital-TV sets or set-tops.
> ...
> *Under the digital-TV legislation, in 2009, Comcast and Time Warner could not offer digital-TV must-carry stations in analog.*


The NAB, *at this time* has won and the NCTA is trying to overturn this decision. The second article continues this debate between the NAB and the NCTA with no change in the current ruling. The "cloudyness" is an outcome of a legislation "double standard" which says every cable subscriber shall be able to view all local television signals on every receivers in their home WHILE cable cos are not able to convert the signal at the head end (which would now require a STB in every cable sub's home on every TV).

Adam1115, you can seriously doubt the FCC all you wish, but the fact remains that (most) cable providers, under the current legislation, will not be able to convert digital channels at the head end.

Speculation says by the time 2009 rolls around this will be overturned, but it will continue to be a heated battle between the NAB and NCTA.


----------



## SullyND

greg_burns said:


> The S3 will have the same analog limitation as these new DT units, right? It can record OTA ATSC, but not analog (if I understand correctly).


It should. (Have the same limitation) As I have said before, the DT is the perfect TiVo for me (Analog cable, no HD). Will I get HD eventually? Probably? In the useable lifespan of a new TiVo, probably not. New DT in the family room, old ST in the bedroom... What happens if I do get HD? Move the DT to the bedroom and the ST somewhere else, but I don't see myself getting HD for 7-10 years if then, so why on earth would I pay for an S3 now?


----------



## terryfoster

greg_burns said:


> The S3 will have the same analog limitation as these new DT units, right? It can record OTA ATSC, but not analog (if I understand correctly).


That's been my understanding of the S3 capabilities. I have read the S3 can do NTSC for cable, ATSC OTA, QAM for digital cable. I have not read anything saying it can do NTSC OTA.


----------



## davezatz

SullyND said:


> What happens if I do get HD? Move the DT to the bedroom and the ST somewhere else, but I don't see myself getting HD for 7-10 years if then, so why on earth would I pay for an S3 now?


No HD for 7 - 10 years? Wow, that kinda depresses me. If we forget the increased clarity for a second, the extra content that comes with 16x9 alone is worth upgrading if you watch a lot of movies or sporting events. But if someone has fully functional TVs, I guess I could *almost* understand not going HD - the current HD sets can be pricey and how do you justify dumping a working SD set? I'm having a hard time leting go of our 32" SD bedroom TV for that very reason...


----------



## timstack8969

The user guides are now available on "Tivo.com" for "DT Series 2"


----------



## BlackBetty

timstack8969 said:


> The user guides are now available on "Tivo.com" for "DT Series 2"


link please


----------



## terryfoster

http://customersupport.tivo.com/userGuides.asp?ug=series2dT


----------



## davezatz

terryfoster said:


> http://customersupport.tivo.com/userGuides.asp?ug=series2dT


They have a picture of the TiVo-branded wireless adapter on the quick start guide.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Yeah I think the lady was referring to her selling a 100 that day.. I know now I have two 80 hours and would kind of like the 180 hour one C-Net says they have but most of the stuff I record like 3 soaps a day Regis & Kelly and others I watch and delete... I need the space for saving the shows cause I record so much I stay behind.. I haven't watched Live TV since Tivo that I can remember.. But I have had a 3 show conflict afew times since I started watching American Idol so this Dual tuner will be nice for me.. A brand new Tivo for only 99 bucks isn't bad at all.. I was paying 12.95 anyway so I didn't mind paying up front..

I do have a bunch of shows on my bedroom Tivo where I was jut saving funny episodes that I liked of certain shows but I will have to delete those I don't care.. I just need to watch what I am behind on and transfer some out here to my other tivo.. I can't wait to get this!! I ordered over the phone and they didn't ask for an e-mail so I wonder how I can check the staus of the order? It's coming Fed Ex..


----------



## tazzftw

Whoa whoa whoa! Am I reading this right? According to the startup poster, if I don't use a Cable Box, I can plug one coax into the back, and still get dual-tuner capabilities.

AWESOME!


----------



## jsmeeker

tazzftw said:


> Whoa whoa whoa! Am I reading this right? According to the startup poster, if I don't use a Cable Box, I can plug one coax into the back, and still get dual-tuner capabilities.
> 
> AWESOME!


you read it right.


----------



## jsmeeker

dpoterek said:


> I understand the Series 3 will record anything - analog, digitial, HD. So why buy a series 2 dual tuner and limit yourself to just 2 tuners with no HD capability??
> 
> Today you may not need the HD - but you never know in the future what you may want. Why limit yourself when the series 3 can do it all and is soon to launch??
> 
> Tivo - quite wasting time and put out the real deal (series 3) that the market is waiting for.


Not everyone has the capability to do HD. They may not have an HDTV. They may not want to pay the higher fees to get HD and digital cable from the cable company. They may not want to pay the higher cost for the Series 3 box. They may not have any plans to get any of this in the near future.

Why buy the more expensive series 3 if the Series 2 DT will do the exact same thing for your given setup (i.e. basic, analog cable)


----------



## SullyND

davezatz said:


> No HD for 7 - 10 years? Wow, that kinda depresses me. If we forget the increased clarity for a second, the extra content that comes with 16x9 alone is worth upgrading if you watch a lot of movies or sporting events. But if someone has fully functional TVs, I guess I could *almost* understand not going HD - the current HD sets can be pricey and how do you justify dumping a working SD set? I'm having a hard time leting go of our 32" SD bedroom TV for that very reason...


I cannot stand 16x9 TVs, hate, hate, hate, hate them. I do like widescreen movies, but until the majority of content is 16x9 (Which is probably not as far off) I have absolutely ZERO interest in getting a 16x9 TV. My current TV is only 2 years old, it's a CRT, and does everything I want of it. I have no need for a large-screen TV. When I have a space capable of supporting a large screen TV, replacing my current TV will be the lowest of my priorities.

I do not anticipate replacing my TV within the next 7-10 years, and therefore it will be no HD for me until then.


----------



## tazzftw

I too don't see the need for HDTV at this point. I mean, the day I get a new TV, it will be HD. But for now, it's not needed.

And going back to the DT for a second, so not only can you use just one cable for a DT, but will the passthrough work as well, allowing you to get regular TV through the TV's RF? Because sure, I may be recording two shows, but sometimes I'll want to watch a third.


----------



## terryfoster

SullyND said:


> I cannot stand 16x9 TVs, hate, hate, hate, hate them. I do like widescreen, but until the majority of content is 16x9 (Which is probably not as far off) I have absolutely ZERO interest in getting a 16x9 TV.
> 
> I do not anticipate replacing my TV within the next 7-10 years, and therefore it will be no HD for me until then.


Just curious (NOT trying to change your mind), does the majority of your programming come from prime time? Do you watch the Bears? Do you watch Notre Dame football (only assuming from your username)?

-Just trying to get a grasp of what "majority of content" means to you.

BTW,

You may be surprised how important a larger screen HDTV may become if you move to a larger place. We ended up replacing our 27" 4:3 HDTV CRT with a 46" DLP because it was hard to read subtitles or to see much detail from across the room where we sit. I also watch all of my 4:3 content in its OAR because I also can't stand stretched content.


----------



## terryfoster

tazzftw said:


> And going back to the DT for a second, so not only can you use just one cable for a DT, but will the passthrough work as well, allowing you to get regular TV through the TV's RF? Because sure, I may be recording two shows, but sometimes I'll want to watch a third.


Isn't that only possible if you put the TiVo into "Stand by" mode? I don't know if they call it something else or have something better on a Series 2, but that's the only way I can get the passthrough to work on my Series 1.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Well as long as if I ever have a 3 show conflict I can recdord one out in my LR and now I can either record the other 2 in my BR or if I am home record one and watch the other which is still nice to be able to do.. Mine is being hooked up with no cable box.. I just called Tivo back and they said yesterday 4 business days but now I was told it takes 24-48 hours to process.. I am off all next week but won't be home Thurs and Fri.. But now I have time to try to watch as much as possible back there to get it off my Tivo..


----------



## davezatz

terryfoster said:


> Isn't that only possible if you put the TiVo into "Stand by" mode? I don't know if they call it something else or have something better on a Series 2, but that's the only way I can get the passthrough to work on my Series 1.


The RF/coax pass-thru on my Humax burner doesn't require TiVo to be in stand-by. This is how I feed my Slingbox so no one changes a channel on me.


----------



## SullyND

terryfoster said:


> Just curious (NOT trying to change your mind), does the majority of your programming come from prime time? Do you watch the Bears? Do you watch Notre Dame football (only assuming from your username)?
> 
> -Just trying to get a grasp of what "majority of content" means to you.


I rarely watch professional sports - the only one worth a hill of beans to me is baseball, and the only team worth watching are on three (sometimes four) different channels (WGN, WCIU, CSN, CLTV). And yes, I watch Notre Dame Football. There are 12 games next season. I will be at atleast two of them. 10 games a year is not much content.


----------



## Stormspace

terryfoster said:


> You may be surprised how important a larger screen HDTV may become if you move to a larger place. We ended up replacing our 27" 4:3 HDTV CRT with a 46" DLP because it was hard to read subtitles or to see much detail from across the room where we sit. I also watch all of my 4:3 content in its OAR because I also can't stand stretched content.


You know I just bought an 42" plasma and after some tweaking it's turned out to be a really good set. My wife and I use Close Captioning all the time on our 35" bedroom CRT TV with no problems, but when we tried it on the 16:9 set the words were way too big and covered most of the vertical space on the screen. Changing aspect ratios didn't help and there wasn't a setting to change the font size of the CC. So, we don't use it there we just crank up the volume. 

PS: At nominal volumes on the bedroom set the midrange where voices are seems to drop out, so we use the CC to catch the occasional word.


----------



## terryfoster

SullyND said:


> I rarely watch professional sports - the only one worth a hill of beans to me is baseball, and the only team worth watching are on three (sometimes four) different channels (WGN, WCIU, CSN, CLTV). And yes, I watch Notre Dame Football. There are 12 games next season. I will be at atleast two of them. 10 games a year is not much content.


So, you neglected to mention your prime time viewing. From your sig I assume you watch Earl (which is in HD). What is the majority of your viewing, primetime on the "big 4" or mainly from other "cable" sources?


----------



## aindik

terryfoster said:


> Isn't that only possible if you put the TiVo into "Stand by" mode? I don't know if they call it something else or have something better on a Series 2, but that's the only way I can get the passthrough to work on my Series 1.


Just split the signal before it hits the TiVo. One leg to the TiVo, the other leg to the TV (or, as I do it, to the <gasp> VCR).


----------



## terryfoster

aindik said:


> Just split the signal before it hits the TiVo. One leg to the TiVo, the other leg to the TV (or, as I do it, to the <gasp> VCR).


Yeah, obviously, but the question was specific to passthrough. The other problem with splitting the signal is signal degradation.


----------



## SullyND

terryfoster said:


> So, you neglected to mention your prime time viewing. From your sig I assume you watch Earl (which is in HD). What is the majority of your viewing, primetime on the "big 4" or mainly from other "cable" sources?


At most I watch 3-4 "Network" shows a week. The majority of my programming is cable.


----------



## aindik

terryfoster said:


> Yeah, obviously, but the question was specific to passthrough. The other problem with splitting the signal is signal degradation.


I guess. But if you use passthrough, doesn't the TiVo do the same signal splitting that your splitter would do?


----------



## sirfergy

I agree about the 16:9 thing. I just bought the Sony 36" 4:3 HDTV and couldn't be happier. That way I get the benefit of 36" for 4:3 content, and it's almost 34" in 16:9 mode.


----------



## tazzftw

aindik said:


> I guess. But if you use passthrough, doesn't the TiVo do the same signal splitting that your splitter would do?


Eh you're probably right. But still, I'd basically get three tuners through only two cables. While there may be degration, it probably won't be as bad as using a three way splitter.

On my TX60, I don't need to be in Standby. However, on my H400, I think I do. But we'll see.

And regarding the on-going argument about HDTV...... sweet, another Cubs fan (or at the very least, a Chicago fan (White Sox)). Sports would actually be a great reason to get HD (WCIU just went HD BTW). But it's not that high of a priority right now.


----------



## ADGrant

I have an original series 1 box with a lifetime subscription. Anyone know if that can be transferred to this new DT box. This is the first Tivo since the original Series 1, I would consider upgrading to. I am a little surprised it took them so long to come up with this. My DVR is now a SA 8300 HD but with the network support, this could work in the bedroom.

Shame they didn't include wifi though (or the ability to control two cable boxes)


----------



## ZeoTiVo

tazzftw said:


> Eh you're probably right. But still, I'd basically get three tuners through only two cables. While there may be degration, it probably won't be as bad as using a three way splitter.
> 
> On my TX60, I don't need to be in Standby. However, on my H400, I think I do. But we'll see.


the Sd H400 needs to be in standby mode


----------



## aindik

ADGrant said:


> I have an original series 1 box with a lifetime subscription. Anyone know if that can be transferred to this new DT box. This is the first Tivo since the original Series 1, I would consider upgrading to. I am a little surprised it took them so long to come up with this. My DVR is now a SA 8300 HD but with the network support, this could work in the bedroom.
> 
> Shame they didn't include wifi though (or the ability to control two cable boxes)


Whether you can transfer your lifetime service depends on when you bought the lifetime service. The cut off date for transferrability is some time in 2000 (and, each pre-2000 lifetime purchase only allows one transfer).


----------



## SullyND

ADGrant said:


> I have an original series 1 box with a lifetime subscription. Anyone know if that can be transferred to this new DT box.


If your lifetime was purchased before January 20, 2000, it could be transferred, however, if I were in your shoes I would wait and transfer it to a Series3 (As it appears you already have an HD TV)


----------



## terryfoster

If you are eligible for a transfer as I am DO NOT waste your transfer moving to this box. Wait for when you can afford the Series 3 and transfer it then. I'm planning on doing that myself, but debating if I can survive on only two tuners or if I still need the third tuner my Series 1 provides.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

terryfoster said:


> If you are eligible for a transfer as I am DO NOT waste your transfer moving to this box. Wait for when you can afford the Series 3 and transfer it then. I'm planning on doing that myself, but debating if I can survive on only two tuners or if I still need the third tuner my Series 1 provides.


for all - the Dual Tuner us just 254$ for hardware and one year of service. Compare that to what you could sell lifetime for on the open market.

The wise thing is to wait and transfer lifetime to a series 3. 
if you wnat Dual tuners before then they do the one year deal on a dual tuner.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

terryfoster said:


> So, here's a S2-DT question with S3 implications.... Do they offer Picture-in-Picture with the S2-DT?


no mention of that in any thing shown so far and TiVo has traditionally shied away from video overlay. Seems it gets more complicated in the world of hard drive recording inside a TiVo.


----------



## TivoZorro

I got the Early Release E-mail. Can I call the 877-289-8486 phone number and order it from there today or do I have to wait until Monday. I don't like to put my credit card number out on the Internet.


----------



## MusicMama

1. I already have 3 Tivos (1- 240, 2-540) so I already have MSD. However, I got the MSD e-mail, which I guess puts Tivo #1 as the MSD candidate?? Or is it the new one that would get the MSD?

2. If I have a digital box on the tv that would have the new S2 T2 (gee, can I sell that nickname to Tivo?), does that mean I would only be able to record 1 channel total at a time?

I've already spent over half an hour reading this thread to try and find the answers, but all I've found out is that I'm more confused. If the answer to #2 is "yes", then I don't need to get a fourth Tivo (although it would make my daughter happy since she'd inherit the old faithful 240).

Thanks in advance for whoever has patience and knowledge to answer.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

MusicMama said:


> 1. I already have 3 Tivos (1- 240, 2-540) so I already have MSD. However, I got the MSD e-mail, which I guess puts Tivo #1 as the MSD candidate?? Or is it the new one that would get the MSD?
> 
> 2. If I have a digital box on the tv that would have the new S2 T2 (gee, can I sell that nickname to Tivo?), does that mean I would only be able to record 1 channel total at a time?
> 
> I've already spent over half an hour reading this thread to try and find the answers, but all I've found out is that I'm more confused. If the answer to #2 is "yes", then I don't need to get a fourth Tivo (although it would make my daughter happy since she'd inherit the old faithful 240).
> 
> Thanks in advance for whoever has patience and knowledge to answer.


well it has not come up for about 3 pages 

if you pay monthly on all 3 of your TiVos - then yes doing a bundled price on the S2 DT will drop the 12.95 one to 6.95.

2. you hook uop the coax cable and the digital cable box to the DT. You can record 2 analog channels at the same time (like ch 4 and ch 21) or one analog and one digital channel at the same time (like ch 4 and ch 123). of course you can record any one channel any time.

umm - TiVoZorro - you can call the number and find out what happens  I think you can call now as they most likely will just look for an existing account


----------



## timstack8969

I currently cannot watch one channel and record another channel with my single tuner series 2 because comcast in the city of Philadelphia scramble's most of my channes(2-99) coming from TV. My question with this new dual tuner will I still have this problem channels 2-99.


----------



## aindik

timstack8969 said:


> I currently cannot watch one channel and record another channel with my single tuner series 2 because comcast in the city of Philadelphia scramble's most of my channes(2-99) coming from TV. My question with this new dual tuner will I still have this problem channels 2-99.


The TiVo will not descramble anything.

I'm in the same situation. What makes it more pallateable is that the channels that are not scrambled are the ones I watch most often - the locals.


----------



## msgtgumby

Okay, so If I've read this thread correctly, when you buy this thing off the Tivo website and you already have another Tivo, this new DT one will become your $12.95 box and your other box will become the $6.95 box. Now, that's ONLY if you buy the bundled one directly from Tivo right? If I wait and buy it retail, the newer DT one will be added as the $6.95 box correct?


----------



## Rose4uKY

So your sayin If have 2 Tivos now one in the LR which is the 12.95 one and the BR which I may sell is my 6.95 one... So If I get this new one prepaying 12.95 for 1 year and get rid of my BR one which was 6.95 will the new DT BR one now be my 12.95 one and the LR one go from being the 12.95 to the 6.95 one.. Is that the correct? It confused me and If I was to have all 3 Tivos under my name would all 3 be 6.95? Or is one always 12.95? If all 3 were to be 6.95 then would I still have to pay the 254 for the DT one and after 1 year it will be 6.95 like the other two or one will always be 12.95? Sorry but I got confused.. I am not keeping 3 Tivos but if I don't sell one and give one to my brother they can pay me 6.95 and I'll keep it on my account. But for now I was told after 1 year I would still be paying as I pay now 12.95 and 6.95.. I was just told if I kept the 3rd under my name it would also be 6.95.. So I am thinking 12.95 after 1 year plus two 6.95's but I am just double checking sorry... Rose


----------



## davezatz

Rose4uKY said:


> So your sayin If have 2 Tivos now one in the LR which is the 12.95 one and the BR which I may sell is my 6.95 one... So If I get this new one prepaying 12.95 for 1 year and get rid of my BR one which was 6.95 will the new DT BR one now be my 12.95 one and the LR one go from being the 12.95 to the 6.95 one.. Is that the correct? It confused me and If I was to have all 3 Tivos under my name would all 3 be 6.95? Or is one always 12.95? If all 3 were to be 6.95 then would I still have to pay the 254 for the DT one and after 1 year it will be 6.95 like the other two or one will always be 12.95? Sorry but I got confused.. I am not keeping 3 Tivos but if I don't sell one and give one to my brother they can pay me 6.95 and I'll keep it on my account. But for now I was told after 1 year I would still be paying as I pay now 12.95 and 6.95.. I was just told if I kept the 3rd under my name it would also be 6.95.. So I am thinking 12.95 after 1 year plus two 6.95's but I am just double checking sorry... Rose


Who's on first?


----------



## greg_burns

What's on second.


----------



## Jonathan_S

Rose4uKY said:


> confusing pricing question


At least one TiVo will always be full price.

Now that full price might be monthly payments of $12.95 (if the unit was purchased retail)
Or the full price might be the $19.95/month for a zero cost upfront TiVo bundle from TiVo.com (or slightly lower if you choose the 2 or 3 year bundle)
Or it might be in the form of a prepaid yearly fee
Or it might be in the form of a previously purchased lifetime subscription.

But you will never have a situation where you are paying monthly on everything and only getting charged $6.95 / unit / month.

Now, you might be in a situation (prepaid full price, or bundled unit) where more than one TiVo is at full price, but you will never have all TiVos at the multi-unit discount price.


----------



## 1283

Rose4uKY said:


> give one to my brother they can pay me 6.95 and I'll keep it on my account.


MSD does/should not work unless it's physically in the same household as a full priced one.


----------



## Rose4uKY

I asked them what would happen If I gave one of mine to my brother since I am getting this new one.. They told me if he put it under his name it would be 12.95. The guy on the phone is the one whos aid but if you keep it under your name it will only be 6.95 and I said but he lives in a differen't home and he said that was ok.. But I did think I always had at least one 12,95.. So I will stay the same 12.95 and 6.95 it's jsut I will go a year with only paying 6.95 cause the new one is prepaid for 1 year. Thanks Everyone, Rose


----------



## 1283

Rose4uKY said:


> The guy on the phone is the one whos aid but if you keep it under your name it will only be 6.95 and I said but he lives in a differen't home and he said that was ok


"The guy on the phone" is not correct, at least not according to the official policy.

http://www.tivo.com/5.11.4.asp


----------



## MichaelK

jsmeeker said:


> Not everyone has the capability to do HD. They may not have an HDTV. They may not want to pay the higher fees to get HD and digital cable from the cable company. They may not want to pay the higher cost for the Series 3 box. They may not have any plans to get any of this in the near future.
> 
> Why buy the more expensive series 3 if the Series 2 DT will do the exact same thing for your given setup (i.e. basic, analog cable)


Agree with all that- but to be clear so people understand their options- much of the HD on cable doesnt not cost a dime extra. At a minimum all the broadcast channels in HD which is likely the majority of watched programs in general all are free. Many times the HD versions of anything you already get in SD are free if you have the correct tuner. It seems only Directv and Dish charge extra for HD content.

There's a lot of confusion here at TC in regards to ATSC, HD, digital tv and the impending transitions. AVS is a really good place to learn.


----------



## ah30k

c3 said:


> MSD does/should not work unless it's physically in the same household as a full priced one.


Agree, the policy says the units must be dialing in from the same phone number or internet address (I assume the same subnet address at least). No one can be sure if Tivo enforces this policy but they sure could.


----------



## MichaelK

SullyND said:


> I cannot stand 16x9 TVs, hate, hate, hate, hate them. I do like widescreen movies, but until the majority of content is 16x9 (Which is probably not as far off) I have absolutely ZERO interest in getting a 16x9 TV. My current TV is only 2 years old, it's a CRT, and does everything I want of it. I have no need for a large-screen TV. When I have a space capable of supporting a large screen TV, replacing my current TV will be the lowest of my priorities.
> 
> I do not anticipate replacing my TV within the next 7-10 years, and therefore it will be no HD for me until then.


Says the man without a 16x9 TV. LOL

First off the majority of new TV IS 16x9, you just dont know it because you are watching SD on a 4:3 set. Basically all new big 4 network TV except the news is 16:9. Much of the new PBS is 16:9. Try to watch something new on discovery, history, NGC- all 16:9. Pretty much anything on the movie channels is 16:9. I think most RSNs have their home teams games in HD(therefore 16:9) and some have some or all road games too.

I bought a an HDTV 2+ years ago when 16:9 wasnt so much the norm. And dont squeal on my to the guys at AVS HD forums- theyll hang me for heresy but ya know what to me HD is second fiddle to 16x9! 16x9 to me is soo much more an improvement over 4:3 that it almost overshadows HD vs SD in my feeble mind. Movies went to widescreen 16x9ish years ago to one up TV as its a more natural field of few humans. You quickly find after having a 16x9 set that you actually almost squint to watch 4:3 content since it doesnt naturally fit your field of vision. I find that if I watch an evening of 16:9 tv (any of the primetime programming Ive listed above- or maybe a DVD which now apparently sell more in 16:9 than 4:3) that its obvious when I put on the 4:3 news that Im squinteing to focus on that little square box with my widescreen field of vision.

(actually Ive posted this before either here at AVS so they already brand me a heretic- LOL)

Also the space needed for a large HDTV is not the same space as needed for a large SDTV. CNET has a guide that shows it pretty dramatically. For a given size of an SD set they might say sit at 10 feet but at the same distance they recommend an HD set like twice the SD size. When I first got my HD set- I was afraid it was huge. Originally I planned on a 42 inch to replace a 33ish inch HDTV. I thought that was pushing it. But I got a very good deal on a 50 inch model and figured I would be moving to a bigger home soon so I bit the bullet and bought that. I thought it would be HUGE. Got it home and a week later thought to myself maybe I should have listened to CNET and got the 60 inch they recommend for the space I have! I tell all my friends buying HDTVs that story and recommend they go BIG. They all tell me Im a nut. Then they call me a few weeks later and say ya know what, I could have went the next size up). HDTV is so much better quality and matches your field of vision so much better (see above) that you can sit what seems like on top of the set and really enjoy it.


----------



## Dan203

greg_burns said:


> The S3 will have the same analog limitation as these new DT units, right? It can record OTA ATSC, but not analog (if I understand correctly).


No it wont! The law requires that all units capable of recording OTA NTSC also be capable of recording OTA ATSC. The S2DT units don't have ATSC tuners, so they're forced to eliminated OTA NTSC as well. The Series 3 will have ATSC tuners, so the restriction placed on the S2DT does not apply to it and it should be able to record OTA in both analog and digital formats without restriction.

Dan


----------



## SullyND

MichaelK said:


> Says the man without a 16x9 TV. LOL


Wow, that was a long post. Still does not change the fact that I hate them. You love them, goody for you. My TV is two years old, it will not be replaced for 7-10 years. I'm sure by them 16:9 content will be the norm, and I'll probably get one. For now, with the majority of content that *I* *ME* *NOT YOU* watch being in 4:3, 16:9 does not interest me at all. IF I have to have black bars on my content I'd rather have it on the top and bottom. You know movies are not filmed in 16:9 right?

To recap, you like them, good for you. I do not.


----------



## MichaelK

SullyND said:


> I rarely watch professional sports - the only one worth a hill of beans to me is baseball, and the only team worth watching are on three (sometimes four) different channels (WGN, WCIU, CSN, CLTV). And yes, I watch Notre Dame Football. There are 12 games next season. I will be at atleast two of them. 10 games a year is not much content.


Well as I said above- you can probably get at least your 81 home baseball game in HD if not more. Never mind network TV.


----------



## SullyND

MichaelK said:


> Well as I said above- you can probably get at least your 81 home baseball game in HD if not more. Never mind network TV.


I watch maybe 1 game every two-three weeks.


----------



## terryfoster

MichaelK said:


> First off the majority of new TV IS 16x9, you just dont know it because you are watching SD on a 4:3 set. Basically all new big 4 network TV except the news is 16:9. Much of the new PBS is 16:9. Try to watch something new on discovery, history, NGC- all 16:9. Pretty much anything on the movie channels is 16:9. I think most RSNs have their home teams games in HD(therefore 16:9) and some have some or all road games too.


Now he did say the majority of his viewing content was non-network and not alot of programming on cable is HD. You have a handfull of channels like TNT, ESPN1&2, Discovery HD, TBS, UniversalHD, MTV-HD(MHD), INHD 1&2, HDNet & Movies, movie channels, very few FSNs, YES, and very few other RSNs. Now that offering sounds pretty good until you find out what your cable operator offers.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big proponent of HDTV but if you push some people into it they will end up with a bad experience and will tell their friends about their bad HDTV experience. If the majority of your viewing is primetime network tv AND you are in an area with good OTA reception OR your cable system offers all of your local's digital channels then GET AN HDTV! If you are OTA only then GET AN HDTV! OTA users will be amazed with the PQ increase over their snowy picture. If you watch mostly cable shows that are not offered in HD and you don't watch alot of DVDs then, DON'T GET AN HDTV!

It's really a decision you need to make based on the amount of programmng available to you that you would like to watch.


----------



## gonzotek

SullyND said:


> ...For now, with the majority of content that *I* *ME* *NOT YOU* watch being in 4:3, 16:9 does not interest me at all....


 Ah, but how much of what you watch now in SD is also available in HD, and how much are you missing by not being able to see it? For instance, the quote in your sig comes from a show that has used 16:9 framing very effectively and often tosses in sight gags that can only be appreciated by HD viewers.

All arguments for or against aside, do whatever's right for you. I prefer to watch HD content letter-boxed onto my SD set, at least until I can afford to get a fairly large HD set.


----------



## ADGrant

aindik said:


> Whether you can transfer your lifetime service depends on when you bought the lifetime service. The cut off date for transferrability is some time in 2000 (and, each pre-2000 lifetime purchase only allows one transfer).


Well I bought mine in the summer of 1999 so I should be good to go.


----------



## SullyND

gonzotek said:


> Ah, but how much of what you watch now in SD is also available in HD


As has been said, Not much.


----------



## ADGrant

terryfoster said:


> If you are eligible for a transfer as I am DO NOT waste your transfer moving to this box. Wait for when you can afford the Series 3 and transfer it then. I'm planning on doing that myself, but debating if I can survive on only two tuners or if I still need the third tuner my Series 1 provides.


When is the Series 3 going to be released? I would love to switch back to Tivo from the crappy Cableco DVR. My old Series 1 is sitting in a box in storage right now because it doesn't do HD, requires a phone line (I no longer have one) and requires a cable box (my cableco is Time Warner Manhattan).

Hopefully transferring from a Series 1 to a Series 3 will not be a problem.


----------



## SullyND

ADGrant said:


> Hopefully transferring from a Series 1 to a Series 3 will not be a problem.


Shouldn't be, search for the post by TiVoOpsMgr if you want some comfort. S3 is second half of 2006, so it's not too far off (Depending on your perspective). Me? I'd hold off and transfer then.


----------



## ADGrant

terryfoster said:


> Now he did say the majority of his viewing content was non-network and not alot of programming on cable is HD. You have a handfull of channels like TNT, ESPN1&2, Discovery HD, TBS, UniversalHD, MTV-HD(MHD), INHD 1&2, HDNet & Movies, movie channels, very few FSNs, YES, and very few other RSNs. Now that offering sounds pretty good until you find out what your cable operator offers.


Don't forget widescreen DVDs.


----------



## MichaelK

SullyND said:


> Wow, that was a long post. Still does not change the fact that I hate them. You love them, goody for you. My TV is two years old, it will not be replaced for 7-10 years. I'm sure by them 16:9 content will be the norm, and I'll probably get one. For now, with the majority of content that *I* *ME* *NOT YOU* watch being in 4:3, 16:9 does not interest me at all. IF I have to have black bars on my content I'd rather have it on the top and bottom. You know movies are not filmed in 16:9 right?
> 
> To recap, you like them, good for you. I do not.


Dude relaxno need to be bitter. Notice I filled my post with HUMOR.

I was trying to offer helpful advice to people who might be reading this thread. It seems there is MUCH confusion and misinformation here at tivocommunity about HD, ATSC, digital tv, cablecard, widescreen etc, etc. (not saying you specifically are confused, but others are obviously reading this thread and statements like most tv isnt 16x9 might confuse folks) I didnt say your opinion was wrong. Or what YOU watched was mostly in 16x9 but rather what MOST PEOPLE watch is 16x9 as evidenced by the neilson ratings indicating that primetime network tv dominates the top programs. Besides some reality shows, basically all that is HD widescreen.

Thjeres no need for you to throw out your nice new 2 year old tv, but maybe someone stumbles along and is buying a set next week. Just as you shared your neggtive opinion of 16:9, I shared my positive opinion. I didnt realize I needed your permission to post my opinion.

But if you want to start pissing in wheaties can you explain how 16x9 is good for movies but not anything else?

Seems like thou protests too much.


----------



## gonzotek

SullyND said:


> As has been said, Not much.


Now I'm genuinely curious, what makes up the bulk of your viewing if it isn't sports, network, discovery-type programming, or movies(all of which have a fairly high ratio of HD availability)?

The only cable network I watch a lot of that offers no HD programming is Comedy Central. I want to be clear that I'm not attempting to make any point at your expense(or otherwise). I'm just interested.


----------



## MichaelK

terryfoster said:


> Now he did say the majority of his viewing content was non-network and not alot of programming on cable is HD. You have a handfull of channels like TNT, ESPN1&2, Discovery HD, TBS, UniversalHD, MTV-HD(MHD), INHD 1&2, HDNet & Movies, movie channels, very few FSNs, YES, and very few other RSNs. Now that offering sounds pretty good until you find out what your cable operator offers.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am a big proponent of HDTV but if you push some people into it they will end up with a bad experience and will tell their friends about their bad HDTV experience. If the majority of your viewing is primetime network tv AND you are in an area with good OTA reception OR your cable system offers all of your local's digital channels then GET AN HDTV! If you are OTA only then GET AN HDTV! OTA users will be amazed with the PQ increase over their snowy picture. If you watch mostly cable shows that are not offered in HD and you don't watch alot of DVDs then, DON'T GET AN HDTV!
> 
> It's really a decision you need to make based on the amount of programmng available to you that you would like to watch.


to be clear- his ORIGINAL post was NOT clear that the majority of HIS watching was not 16:9, to the uninformed it could appear that MOST TV now is not 16x9. I was trying to point out that the majority of TV people watch by the ratings IS in 16:9. That's all.

I ttoally agree it's a personal decision and there are lots of reasons to stay 4:3 or SD (as I posted just a few posts above) but I think people should have all the FACTS.


----------



## MichaelK

terryfoster said:


> ...
> 
> The NAB, *at this time* has won and the NCTA is trying to overturn this decision. The second article continues this debate between the NAB and the NCTA with no change in the current ruling. The "cloudyness" is an outcome of a legislation "double standard" which says every cable subscriber shall be able to view all local television signals on every receivers in their home WHILE cable cos are not able to convert the signal at the head end (which would now require a STB in every cable sub's home on every TV).
> 
> Adam1115, you can seriously doubt the FCC all you wish, but the fact remains that (most) cable providers, under the current legislation, will not be able to convert digital channels at the head end.
> 
> Speculation says by the time 2009 rolls around this will be overturned, but it will continue to be a heated battle between the NAB and NCTA.


Can you point to a ruling/decsion/ or reg that says it's been decided one way or the other.? I am unaware. The way I read the articles you linked to, the cable people tried to have their viewpoint written into law and the NAB had it expunged but did not get wording included to codify their position.

Theres even a quote by the FCC commissioner in your second link that says he thinks currently its fine for Cable to simulcast the HD ATSC and then provide an analog downconvert (I quoted it above in a previous post).


----------



## terryfoster

ADGrant said:


> Don't forget widescreen DVDs.


Buuuuut widescreen DVDs are not HD and I was listing available HD content. Yes HD on disc is now available, but too small to discuss at this time. Yes widescreen DVDs are a good reason to get a 16:9 TV, but not a reason to get an HDTV.


----------



## davezatz

terryfoster said:


> Buuuuut widescreen DVDs are not HD and I was listing available HD content. Yes HD on disc is now available, but too small to discuss at this time. Yes widescreen DVDs are a good reason to get a 16:9 TV, but not a reason to get an HDTV.


480p DVDs look better on my HD set than my SD. The picture quality is better and I see more of the movie since it's not comrpessed for a square screen. My player also upconverts... probably doesn't look as good as true HD DVD, but it's much cheaper. And smaller.  Oh yeah my original Xbox also looks much better at 480p and widescreen than on my SD set.

For the record we get all major networks in via digital OTA (and QAM, but that's another topic) and many stations include secondary weather/news stations. We also have several PBS stations broadcasting and the WB and UPN. Nearly all prime time content is HD. The local news has started migrating and I gave up NBC for CBS because of it. The digital spectrum also includes a program guide... it's pretty sparse but better now than 2 years ago when it was entirely empty.

I'm not trying to convince him to switch to HD either, but it's a unique position around here and worth exploring.


----------



## Tivo Basic Mike

This Series 2 is for you cheap people who will complain about the Series 3 being $1000 and the only SA box having two tuners. Now you will have a two tuner budget box and Tivo won't get tons of email about only having one expensive two tuner box.


----------



## SullyND

MichaelK said:


> Dude relaxno need to be bitter. Notice I filled my post with HUMOR.


Other than an "LOL" I saw no humor in your post, only a holier than thou sermon.



MichaelK said:


> I was trying to offer helpful advice to people who might be reading this thread. It seems there is MUCH confusion and misinformation here at tivocommunity about HD, ATSC, digital tv, cablecard, widescreen etc, etc. (not saying you specifically are confused, but others are obviously reading this thread and statements like most tv isnt 16x9 might confuse folks) I didnt say your opinion was wrong. Or what YOU watched was mostly in 16x9 but rather what MOST PEOPLE watch is 16x9 as evidenced by the neilson ratings indicating that primetime network tv dominates the top programs. Besides some reality shows, basically all that is HD widescreen.


I never, NEVER, not once, said that "What MOST PEOPLE watch is only available in 4:3". You went off on your own little tangent.



MichaelK said:


> Thjeres no need for you to throw out your nice new 2 year old tv, but maybe someone stumbles along and is buying a set next week. Just as you shared your neggtive opinion of 16:9, I shared my positive opinion. I didnt realize I needed your permission to post my opinion.


Clearly, yes, you should ask permisson next time. 



MichaelK said:


> But if you want to start pissing in wheaties can you explain how 16x9 is good for movies but not anything else?


I never said 16:9 is not good. I only get widescreen movies. The majority of content, AND the vast majority of content that *I* watch is only available in 4:3. I rarely watch movies. Why would I want a TV that has bars on the sides 90% of the time I watch it?



MichaelK said:


> First off the majority of new TV IS 16x9, you just dont know it because you are watching SD on a 4:3 set.


For someone who tries to spout _facts_ you seemed to miss that one.



MichaelK said:


> to be clear- his ORIGINAL post was NOT clear that the majority of HIS watching was not 16:9, to the uninformed it could appear that MOST TV now is not 16x9. I was trying to point out that the majority of TV people watch by the ratings IS in 16:9. That's all.


Your wrong in your first two statements, but may be right in the last one, I haven't checked.


----------



## terryfoster

MichaelK said:


> Can you point to a ruling/decsion/ or reg that says it's been decided one way or the other.?


It's pretty clear here in the quote I used previously:


12/29 article said:


> The House bill had included language designed to avoid the mass deployment of set-tops, providing relief to large and small MSOs in different ways.
> 
> But House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman Joe Barton (R-Texas) agreed to remove it after Senate Budget Committee chairman Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) -- with the encouragement of the National Association of Broadcasters -- raised procedural objections.
> ...
> After the transition in 2009, millions of cable homes will still have analog-TV sets. Must-carry digital-TV stations will lose access to those cable homes until those homes have digital-TV sets or set-tops.
> ...
> Under the digital-TV legislation, in 2009, Comcast and Time Warner could not offer digital-TV must-carry stations in analog.


To summarize, since you didn't read it last time, the bill originally included a provision to allow cable cos to convert digital signals to not require the deployment of STBs, it was subsequently removed with encouragement of the NAB, now large cable cos (TWC, Comcast, COX, etc) will be unable to "downrez" the digital signals to analog at the head end. Yes the FCC says it would be a good idea to allow it, but the House and Senate didn't include that provision in their bill.

Here is a thread discussing the topic on AVS Forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7273754&&#post7273754

The only way around this issue is for local providers to provide a 480i stream via fiber or some other subchannel.



Nitewatchman said:


> FCC also has a "factsheet" summary of that report and order, "CABLE CARRIAGE OF DIGITAL TV SIGNALS SUMMARY OF FCC RULES ADOPTED JANUARY 18, 2001" available here :
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Ne..._factsheet.html
> 
> Applicable to what you are interested in, See the "material degradation" section of the fact-sheet, where it says :
> 
> :quote
> 
> The Report and Order finds that a cable operator may not carry a digital television signal in a lesser format or lower resolution than that afforded to a non-broadcast digital programmer carried on the cable system. However, a digital-only television station may demand that a cable operator carry its digital signal in an analog format without the prohibition against material degradation being violated. If a television station chooses to be carried in this manner, it is treated in the same manner as an analog signal.
> 
> :end quote


----------



## greg_burns

Dan203 said:


> No it wont! The law requires that all units capable of recording OTA NTSC also be capable of recording OTA ATSC. The S2DT units don't have ATSC tuners, so they're forced to eliminated OTA NTSC as well. The Series 3 will have ATSC tuners, so the restriction placed on the S2DT does not apply to it and it should be able to record OTA in both analog and digital formats without restriction.
> 
> Dan


Interesting. I just rewatched the gearlive video and Pony does indeed mention recording from a regular antenna.

Thanks Dan!


----------



## Adam1115

terryfoster said:


> Ok, yes I completely agree that STBs will be allowed to convert the digital signals to analog, but it seems pretty clear to me that cable cos are fighting to get the rights to do this at the head end.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is that cable cos *will be affected* by the 2009 digital-tv bill. Sure all sorts of analog signals could still be transmitted over cable, but local channels, under the current legislation, cannot be converted to analog.
> 
> "Downrez" is a poor but common term used in some parts of the AVS forum. I understand it oversimplifies the procedure, but resolution DOES have something to do with it when, in some cases, you would need to convert 1080i ATSC to 480i NTSC, you are downgrading the resolution while also changing the format.
> 
> The NAB, *at this time* has won and the NCTA is trying to overturn this decision. The second article continues this debate between the NAB and the NCTA with no change in the current ruling. The "cloudyness" is an outcome of a legislation "double standard" which says every cable subscriber shall be able to view all local television signals on every receivers in their home WHILE cable cos are not able to convert the signal at the head end (which would now require a STB in every cable sub's home on every TV).
> 
> Adam1115, you can seriously doubt the FCC all you wish, but the fact remains that (most) cable providers, under the current legislation, will not be able to convert digital channels at the head end.
> 
> Speculation says by the time 2009 rolls around this will be overturned, but it will continue to be a heated battle between the NAB and NCTA.


Ok, got it. We agree 100%.


----------



## peteypete

According to alexa.com, tivo is getting quite a traffic pop from the Series 2 DT. You think we can stay in the top 1000?

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/t...size=medium&range=6m&url=http://www.tivo.com/


----------



## derekcrow1970

Prozium said:


> That's been the situation for years. Lifetime stays with the box, not the owners account. Since you already have a lifetime unit service on the DT would be eligible for the MSD rate if $6.95/month. You would have to wait for the unit to hit retail and buy it at $250 (-$150 rebate = $99) to only be charged the $6.95/mo.


I think not allowing life time members to buy new updated boxes from TIVO and transfer their Life time subscription to the new box just cuts their nose off to spite their face. All it does for me is makes me upset with their poor business tactics. It also means that I will not ever purchase any thing more from them so NO MORE MONEY FROM ME TIVO............ I have my life time subscription and will keep it with my current box just like TIVO demands and will not purchase any thing more from them.


----------



## sirfergy

Thats something they've always said. Lifetime of unit, not lifetime of TiVo. They're probably better off w/o your money if you're that angry about it.


----------



## cherry ghost

derekcrow1970 said:


> I think not allowing life time members to buy new updated boxes from TIVO and transfer their Life time subscription to the new box just cuts their nose off to spite their face. All it does for me is makes me upset with their poor business tactics. It also means that I will not ever purchase any thing more from them so NO MORE MONEY FROM ME TIVO............ I have my life time subscription and will keep it with my current box just like TIVO demands and will not purchase any thing more from them.


Bye


----------



## jfh3

Bierboy said:


> That certainly doesn't sound like very many orders, to me...especially for something that's getting so much hype...


Hype? What hype? Where?


----------



## IJustLikeTivo

TiVoPony said:


> You want a Series3 for MPEG4 playback.
> 
> Pony


Indeed, but I need it soon. I have to go HD very soon. I'm not really happy with the way D* is handling the tivo situation so the series 3 with dual cablecard tuners and HD would be a very welcome addition.

I don't mean this too critically, but I would have been happier if that one was the one you'd announced yesterday. Sigh. I think that one has a wider appeal than this one. YMMV.

Nonetheless, it seems like a nice unit, just not one I have a need for.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo

Jonathan_S said:


> Thanks for nailing that down.
> 
> TiVoPony slayer of rumors
> (it could be your new forum title)


Nah, with the hints about the series 3 dual HD tuner, his title would be started of rumors......


----------



## greg_burns

MichaelK said:


> Agree with all that- but to be clear so people understand their options- much of the HD on cable doesnt not cost a dime extra. At a minimum all the broadcast channels in HD which is likely the majority of watched programs in general all are free. Many times the HD versions of anything you already get in SD are free if you have the correct tuner. It seems only Directv and Dish charge extra for HD content.
> 
> There's a lot of confusion here at TC in regards to ATSC, HD, digital tv and the impending transitions. AVS is a really good place to learn.


Hate to go back to the HD thing again, but...

I got an HD television with an ATSC tuner built-in. I currently have Digital Cable with HD. I've read you can just plug in the cable wire to the TV (skipping the cable box) and tune in the HD channels in the clear. But how? I keep trying, but no luck. They don't tune automatically if I scan. If I punch in their equivalent cablebox number (234 for example) I get nada. Are people really doing this? Can you point me to the right place over at AVS for some help?

Thanks


----------



## ChuckyBox

derekcrow1970 said:


> It also means that I will not ever purchase any thing more from them so NO MORE MONEY FROM ME TIVO............ I have my life time subscription and will keep it with my current box just like TIVO demands and will not purchase any thing more from them.


Yeah, TiVo would have made a lot of money letting you buy a $250 DVR for $100, and then letting you transfer your lifetime sub to it. How could they be so blind?


----------



## 1283

ATSC is for off-the-air broadcast. CableCard is supposed to replace the cable box. Two different things.


----------



## greg_burns

c3 said:


> ATSC is for off-the-air broadcast. CableCard is supposed to replace the cable box. Two different things.


My TV has a CableCard slot... Can one subscribe to basic cable, get a cablecard, and still get HD?

What is QAM? Not sure my TV does that and is that important?

Edit: Looks like my TV does have a QAM tuner as well.

BTW, I can tune a couple HD channels OTA. But I really wanted all the locals networks in HD.


----------



## davezatz

greg_burns said:


> Hate to go back to the HD thing again, but...
> 
> I got an HD television with an ATSC tuner built-in. I currently have Digital Cable with HD. I've read you can just plug in the cable wire to the TV (skipping the cable box) and tune in the HD channels in the clear. But how? I keep trying, but no luck. They don't tune automatically if I scan. If I punch in their equivalent cablebox number (234 for example) I get nada. Are people really doing this? Can you point me to the right place over at AVS for some help?
> 
> Thanks


What you want off that cable feed is QAM. I have a set-top box tuner which does OTA and QAM. I have a basic analog cable package from Comcast (~$60) but get maybe 2 dozen additional stations via QAM, which is unencrypted digital - and about half those channels are HD (al the locals and then some). Also it's worth mentioning the channel numbers I use are not the same as the cable box numbers (they also seem to change now and then). I wonder if your TV can tune QAM?

PS My Gamefly Xbox title got here yesterday... I shipped my other game back three weeks ago Friday. How's that for sucky turn around?


----------



## derekcrow1970

ChuckyBox said:


> Yeah, TiVo would have made a lot of money letting you buy a $250 DVR for $100, and then letting you transfer your lifetime sub to it. How could they be so blind?


I took my question to TIVO Corp and got a HONEST answer that im happy with. The person i spoke with said that TIVO simply makes NO money on the DVR's and only makes money on the subscriptions. He said that is why they are no longer offering the life time sub.. He also pointed out that Life time Sub. is a treasure and that this new box really dosent offer me any thing more than the ability to record 2 movies at the same time because its also only a 80 hour.


----------



## ChuckyBox

derekcrow1970 said:


> The person i spoke with said that TIVO simply makes NO money on the DVR's and only makes money on the subscriptions.


That's what I said.


----------



## greg_burns

davezatz said:


> What you want off that cable feed is QAM. I have a set-top box tuner which does OTA and QAM. I have a basic analog cable package from Comcast (~$60) but get maybe 2 dozen additional stations via QAM, which is unencrypted digital - and about half those channels are HD (al the locals and then some). Also it's worth mentioning the channel numbers I use are not the same as the cable box numbers (they also seem to change now and then). I wonder if your TV can tune QAM?


I checked, my TV does do QAM. Now I am just not sure if Comcast is broadcasting the HD unencrypted or not. I think I found the relevant thread over in AVS. Hopefully, somebody can help.



davezatz said:


> PS My Gamefly Xbox title got here yesterday... I shipped my other game back three weeks ago Friday. How's that for sucky turn around?


I got my next game today as well. Pretty sure I put my other in the mail on Friday. Not bad, not bad at all.


----------



## terryfoster

greg_burns,

Run the channel scan for your QAM HDTV and start looking in the ~100.X + channel range. You WILL NOT find the channels in at the same number location (234). For example on my cable ABC (if not remapped with PSIP) shows up at 117.13.


----------



## classicsat

MichaelK said:


> Is that just a disclaimer sort of thing?
> 
> If I understand correctly a cable tuner follows the NTSC standard and uses the correct frequencies for 2-13 and 14-67(or whatever the top uhf cahnnel is?) and then adds in the higher number channels in gaps between UHF and VHF. So if you feed a cable Tuner with an OTA antenna wont it see the VHF and UHF channels?


2-13 are practically the same (IIRC, there is a mode which shifts Ch 5 and 6 down to expand the FM radio band to 24 Mhx, 4 full channels, mapped in the high 90s).
14-22 are between the top of the FM band to CH7
23 and up starts above CH 13.
CH 56 or so is where the UHF band starts, and at that, I think the frequency isn't exactly the same as their nearby UHF channel.

Plus the DT will be smart enough to not display antenna lineups, just cable or satellite.


----------



## classicsat

jstaso said:


> What are the differences between this new box and the Series 3 that is coming out?


Quite a lot. It is a lot easier to say the is a Series 2 with a second tuner/encoder, does not tune OTA from its built in tuners, and has ethernet.

if you really must know:
The Series 3 has digital and analog OTA and cable tuners with cablecard and HD, the DT just analog cable tuners, plus the ability to use a cable or satellite box.


----------



## classicsat

dpoterek said:


> I understand the Series 3 will record anything - analog, digitial, HD. So why buy a series 2 dual tuner and limit yourself to just 2 tuners with no HD capability??


Price.The S2DT is expected to sell for the $254 range. The Series 3 well over $500. Plus the Series3 will leave out non cable/OTA users.

The Series 2 DT was releazsed to essentially replace the existing series 2, which cannot be sold after March 2007, plus offer the Ethernet and Dual tuners people want.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Einselen

classicsat said:


> Price.The S2DT is expected to sell for the $254 range. The Series 3 well over $500. Plus the Series3 will leave out non cable/OTA users.
> 
> The Series 2 DT was releazsed to essentially replace the existing series 2, *which cannot be sold after March 2007*, plus offer the Ethernet and Dual tuners people want.


Why can't the S2 be sold after March 2007?


----------



## classicsat

tazzftw said:


> And going back to the DT for a second, so not only can you use just one cable for a DT, but will the passthrough work as well, allowing you to get regular TV through the TV's RF? Because sure, I may be recording two shows, but sometimes I'll want to watch a third.


Yes, you can use standby, if it has it (no reason it shouldn't)

The RF block inside splits 3 ways essentially, to each tuner and to the internal A/B switch.


----------



## aindik

Einselen said:


> Why can't the S2 be sold after March 2007?


Because of the FCC requirement that any device with an OTA tuner, sold after March 2007, must have an ATSC tuner in addition to the NTSC tuner. The Series 2 does not meet that requirement. The Series 2 DT does (by having neither tuner).


----------



## classicsat

derekcrow1970 said:


> I think not allowing life time members to buy new updated boxes from TIVO and transfer their Life time subscription to the new box just cuts their nose off to spite their face. All it does for me is makes me upset with their poor business tactics. It also means that I will not ever purchase any thing more from them so NO MORE MONEY FROM ME TIVO............ I have my life time subscription and will keep it with my current box just like TIVO demands and will not purchase any thing more from them.


Not selling Lifetime is an excellent business practice, as they have to support that box with no revenue to show for it, after the lifetime pool runs out. To trasnfer Lifetime from one box to another is even worse for them, as it will extend that empty pool further.


----------



## greg_burns

terryfoster said:


> greg_burns,
> 
> Run the channel scan for your QAM HDTV and start looking in the ~100.X + channel range. You WILL NOT find the channels in at the same number location (234). For example on my cable ABC (if not remapped with PSIP) shows up at 117.13.


That did it! :up:

My Sony has AutoProgram and Digital Channel in the menu. Told it to scan Digital Channels and hour later it found all my HD channels! 

So the S3 is going to be able to do the same thing as my TV's QAM tuner just did without the need of a cable card if I downgrade to basic cable, right?


----------



## sirfergy

Anyone know if/when this new TiVo will show up as a reward item?


----------



## 1283

if=yes, when=later

Seriously, it doesn't make sense to offer a just-released unit for "free".


----------



## jfh3

c3 said:


> if=yes, when=later
> 
> Seriously, it doesn't make sense to offer a just-released unit for "free".


It does if you want to encourage more referrals ... :up:


----------



## jfh3

greg_burns said:


> So the S3 is going to be able to do the same thing as my TV's QAM tuner just did without the need of a cable card if I downgrade to basic cable, right?


Yes. As long as none of those channels are scrambled.

Don't forget to scan in to 80's range either.


----------



## killme

I kind of understand the FCC ruling about requiring ATSC with NTSC. I guess the transition period will just suck for awhile. BTW, does that mean VCR's will no longer be sold after March? Or will VCR's just not have tuners? That sucks.


----------



## terryfoster

killme said:


> I kind of understand the FCC ruling about requiring ATSC with NTSC. I guess the transition period will just suck for awhile. BTW, does that mean VCR's will no longer be sold after March? Or will VCR's just not have tuners? That sucks.


VCRs will be sold but they won't include OTA NTSC tuners. They will be just like the S2DT and be "optimized for cable households" .


----------



## dpoterek

Why on earth would you wait 7 to 10 years to get HD?


----------



## wtb

dpoterek said:


> Why on earth would you wait 7 to 10 years to get HD?


Because you don't need it? Myself, there are occasional needs of HD, but I don't have time to watch alot of TV. Plus, to take advantage of it, I would want a larger screen but my furniture won't allow it so I'd have to not only get a HDTV but new furniture. I'll wait a while, maybe not 7 to 10 years, but probably 3 to 5 years at least.


----------



## terryfoster

dpoterek said:


> Why on earth would you wait 7 to 10 years to get HD?


This question has been answered in previous messages. You may want to check back a couple pages.

Flamebait


----------



## MichaelK

SullyND said:


> Other than an "LOL" I saw no humor in your post, only a holier than thou sermon.
> 
> I never, NEVER, not once, said that "What MOST PEOPLE watch is only available in 4:3". You went off on your own little tangent.
> 
> Clearly, yes, you should ask permisson next time.
> 
> I never said 16:9 is not good. I only get widescreen movies. The majority of content, AND the vast majority of content that *I* watch is only available in 4:3. I rarely watch movies. Why would I want a TV that has bars on the sides 90% of the time I watch it?
> 
> For someone who tries to spout _facts_ you seemed to miss that one.
> 
> Your wrong in your first two statements, but may be right in the last one, I haven't checked.


sorry i came off as rude- I really wasn't trying to be. I wrote LOL twice. thought my joke about "says the man' was obvious and labled myself as an AVS heretic- so I thought it was clear I was kidding and had a big grin on my face as I was typing- sorry if I didn't make my self clear. Wasn't my intent to be judgmental. Sorry again.

Your original post said:


SullyND said:


> I cannot stand 16x9 TVs, hate, hate, hate, hate them. I do like widescreen movies, but until the majority of content is 16x9 (Which is probably not as far off) I have absolutely ZERO interest in getting a 16x9 TV.


I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to say but it sure seems like you made a blanket statement that the majority of content is not currently 16x9. Thinking it through you are probably correct if we go by shear numbers or hours or whatever. So I apologize.

I just wanted to make the point that the majority of what most people are watching is 16x9. Thats all. No need for a fight.


----------



## TivoZorro

On the Tivo Website it says the following:

If you purchased a TiVo Package Payment Plan, your DVR will arrive to you pre-activated

Does this mean the 80-hour Dual Tuner with the Prepay 1 year I just purchased will be preactivated?

It will ship on Monday and be here on Wednesday. Can't believe it is going to get here that fast. 

The lady told me I could track my order on tivo.com but I couldn't find where to do that at.


----------



## classicsat

dpoterek said:


> Why on earth would you wait 7 to 10 years to get HD?


More HD channels/programming to make the investment worthwhile.

Cheaper HD hardware.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Really!! I ordered mine on Wednesday and they said it takes 4 business says.. Then I called back and was told it takes 24-48 hours just to process the order then it will be 4 business days to get.. So they said expect it the end of this week.. I am off all week but won't be home Thursday or Friday so I am hoping to get it on Wednesday. They said to call back today and if it's been processed they can give me a Fed-Ex tracking number.. I hope it gets shipped out today.. 
Rose


----------



## tazzftw

classicsat said:


> Yes, you can use standby, if it has it (no reason it shouldn't)
> 
> The RF block inside splits 3 ways essentially, to each tuner and to the internal A/B switch.


Well one of my TiVos doesn't require to be in Standby, which is basically what I'm asking.


----------



## MichaelK

terryfoster said:


> It's pretty clear here in the quote I used previously:
> 
> To summarize, since you didn't read it last time, the bill originally included a provision to allow cable cos to convert digital signals to not require the deployment of STBs, it was subsequently removed with encouragement of the NAB, now large cable cos (TWC, Comcast, COX, etc) will be unable to "downrez" the digital signals to analog at the head end. Yes the FCC says it would be a good idea to allow it, but the House and Senate didn't include that provision in their bill.
> 
> Here is a thread discussing the topic on AVS Forum:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7273754&&#post7273754
> 
> The only way around this issue is for local providers to provide a 480i stream via fiber or some other subchannel.


holy macaroni- I must be coming off really rude or you guys wook up on the WRONG site of the bed. What the hell is this "if I bothered to read" crap? I am not trying to fight with anyone merely I'm trying to get the facts.

I read both your links and even earlier said I learned something by them and I stated I was wrong in my original post on this particular subject.

However the way I read YOUR TWO links is that there was a bill and the cable people tried to get their point of view written into the law. The NAB had a fit and had the cable peoples lanunguage deleted but I see no mention that the NAB got their point of view in instead. (from the avs thread it looks like niether point of view was permitted because of concerns of including non money issues in a budget bill). I read both links and quoted them both and as I already quoted from your second articlce the FCC Charimen said he doesn't see a problem if they sent HDTV and then provide an analog downconvert at the same time.

from YOUR SECOND LINK (maybe you didn't read it???) just a few days ago



> Las Vegas -- Ensuring that every analog-only cable subscriber can view digital-TV signals is "critical" to completing a smooth transition to all-digital broadcasting in February 2009, Federal Communications Commission chairman Kevin Martin said Tuesday.
> ...
> The FCC, he added, might not need to conduct a rulemaking. "I think what we will say is that it has to be viewable, because thats what I think the statutes say," Martin said.
> 
> Martin indicated that cable would not run afoul of the "viewable" test if it transmitted digital and analog versions of the same signal....


So maybe I dont understand what the FCC chairman is saying ( and honestly I would like to know- so if i dont get it please explain- I can be dense some times) but it sure looks to me like he says running a digital HD and an analog down convert at the same time would not run afoul of the condition that the NAB uses as their argument.

thank you for the link to avs's thread. But it doesn't seem clear cut to me there either.

First foxeng (who would obviously have the NAB point of view) said



foxeng said:


> Then you must not have read the law just signed by the president that states not only with analog broadcast shut down on Feb 17th 2009, but also in that bill, it states that cable IS NOT ALLOWED to downres at the headend. As long as there IS an analog signal, then cable can pass that analog signal. But once that analog signal goes away, and only a more than 480i signal is the ONLY signal, it will then take an STB at a non-QAM 480i only TV to downres. That could start as soon as now if stations start to turn the analog signal off and only offer more than 480i signals.
> 
> Again, you can debate the merits of the law, but the underlining fact is IT IS A LAW of the United States, TODAY.


Then the exact next post says:



bfoster said:


> Your interpretation of the law is flawed. If a full res signal is provided the law is met. Period. Now if broadcaster WXYZ and Joe's Cable decide they want to carry an analog version of that programming on every tenth channel they are free to do so.
> 
> Using your interpretation of the law, D* and E* will have to have MPEG4 boxes in *ALL* of their LiL customers homes by February 17, 2009.


And the one after that:



Rich Peterson said:


> I don't think this is accurate. I haven't read the law, but I understood that even after 2009 cable can continue broadcasting NTSC analog as long as they want (with some caveats of course).
> ...


Then foxeng replies and there is back and forth with both sides saying repeatedly that neither has seen the actual law. So back to my original question do you have the link to the law so I can read it myself?

The except you quoted from the fcc if I understand it applies to digital must carry provisions currently in place during the transition period when analog and digital both exist. (again I could be wrong- so please just explain- no need to attack- I tried to follow the link to see the whole thing myself but its broken in your quote)

So if the FCC chairman is saying it's fine to provide a HD digital feed and a concurrent SD analog down convert the only way that will change is if there is a law that says otherwise and the NAB sues to get it enforced.

So forgive me if I dont think its clear cut- but clearly Im not the only one not following. So if it is clear cut please just explain without the trash talk.


----------



## Stormspace

sirfergy said:


> Thats something they've always said. Lifetime of unit, not lifetime of TiVo. They're probably better off w/o your money if you're that angry about it.


Angry customers are never good for a company, but not in the way you're implying. An angry customer impacts sales regardless of whether the copany has his money or not. Get enough angry customers and you go out of business.


----------



## csallen

This thread has really grown in length. 

I understand with the offer to currently TiVo subscribers the unit doesn't qualify for MSD. 


Will the unit fully network into my other 2 TiVo units?

What happens in year two? Can the unit be included in my MSD? 

Thanks,


----------



## jlb

csallen said:


> This thread has really grown in length.
> 
> I understand with the offer to currently TiVo subscribers the unit doesn't qualify for MSD.
> 
> Will the unit fully network into my other 2 TiVo units?
> 
> What happens in year two? Can the unit be included in my MSD?
> 
> Thanks,


While this box cannot qualify as MSD, I am under the understanding that the bundle, as your primary box, could qualify any other boxes you have for MSD. So, yes, if this new box is your 2nd box, then your other box would be 6.95. But if your other box is on Lifetime, then you are sort of out of luck from an MSD perspective in Year 1. In year 2, the new box would qualify for MSD, but you MUST call TiVO to switch it from bundle pricing to service only pricing....otherwise you will continue to be charged the higher monthly bundle price.


----------



## aindik

jlb said:


> While this box cannot qualify as MSD, I am under the understanding that the bundle, as your primary box, could qualify any other boxes you have for MSD. So, yes, if this new box is your 2nd box, then your other box would be 6.95. But if your other box is on Lifetime, then you are sort of out of luck from an MSD perspective in Year 1. In year 2, the new box would qualify for MSD, but you MUST call TiVO to switch it from bundle pricing to service only pricing....otherwise you will continue to be charged the higher monthly bundle price.


My understanding is, that's only if you take TiVo's bundle offer (which is the only way the box is available at TiVo.com). If you buy the box at retail, all the press releases say that you'll get a rebate that will take the price down to $99, and I see nothing from TiVo that says you cannot then activate it under MSD.

Of course, you have to wait 'til May 1. But that's almost here.


----------



## Navarre

Couple questions from a never-owned tivo person.

1) This is Non-HD only right? (i know this one, just making sure) 

2) THis works with Cable? Don't have, never want dish

3) This will hook into a home network and allow the tivo2go thing?

4) will it work with movie channels if I go from a splitter direct to the tivo? 

5) last, and almost as important as #2, will activation work over the lan line? cause I don't have a home phone, only cell.


----------



## aindik

Navarre said:


> Couple questions from a never-owned tivo person.
> 
> 1) This is Non-HD only right? (i know this one, just making sure)
> 
> 2) THis works with Cable? Don't have, never want dish
> 
> 3) This will hook into a home network and allow the tivo2go thing?
> 
> 4) will it work with movie channels if I go from a splitter direct to the tivo?
> 
> 5) last, and almost as important as #2, will activation work over the lan line? cause I don't have a home phone, only cell.


1, 2, and 3 yes.

For 4, if you bypass a box, it will be able to get the same channels your TV or VCR will get if you bypass your box. No more, no less.

For 5, I'm not sure, but I think that was implemented a while ago. I vaguely remember something about being able to do it over a wired network but not wireless, but I'm not sure if that's true anymore (or if it ever was).


----------



## ChuckyBox

Navarre said:


> Couple questions from a never-owned tivo person.
> 
> 1) This is Non-HD only right? (i know this one, just making sure)
> 
> 2) THis works with Cable? Don't have, never want dish
> 
> 3) This will hook into a home network and allow the tivo2go thing?
> 
> 4) will it work with movie channels if I go from a splitter direct to the tivo?
> 
> 5) last, and almost as important as #2, will activation work over the lan line? cause I don't have a home phone, only cell.


1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. It will work with movie channels if you have a cable box that gets those channels, but you will only be able to record one of those channels at a time. The other tuner will only be able to get the analog channels (i.e., the ones you can get without a cable box).
5. Yes, as long as your LAN is connected to the Internet.


----------



## Navarre

aindik said:


> 1, 2, and 3 yes.
> 
> For 4, if you bypass a box, it will be able to get the same channels your TV or VCR will get if you bypass your box. No more, no less.
> 
> For 5, I'm not sure, but I think that was implemented a while ago. I vaguely remember something about being able to do it over a wired network but not wireless, but I'm not sure if that's true anymore (or if it ever was).


Thanks for the quick reply.

5 is really the most important one i guess, as long as it works with cable. I could I suppose sign up for like Vontage long enough to activate, but I wouldn't plan on keeping it around. I need to find clarification somewhere on this one. Guess I could call them 

I have the Moxi DVR from charter going to the tv via component. can't recall if that has a coax output or not. But if it did, that would work wouldn't it? Or would tuning still be controlled by the moxi...hmm. most likely.

Either way, I'd be happy recording SD shows like smallvile, scrubs and a couple others on this and the HD stuff on the series 3 i think.

edit: wow, 2 quick replies, thanks guys


----------



## greg_burns

aindik said:


> For 5, I'm not sure, but I think that was implemented a while ago. I vaguely remember something about being able to do it over a wired network but not wireless, but I'm not sure if that's true anymore (or if it ever was).


#5 would be yes as long as it is running 7.2.0 or greater version of the software (which all new Tivos are). caveat: if you buy an older model (non DT) that has been sitting on a store shelf for quite awhile, it may not be.

aindik, you are recalling the ,#401 hack that only worked on wired (and is no longer necessary if running latest version of software)


----------



## narnia777

Wow interesting discussions in this thread.

I currently have a 40 gig black box tivo that i really want to upgrade to a new one. I was going to go for the 80 gig $19.95 for one year deal for a new box, wish they had the dual tuner for that deal instead of the single tuner. I can't afford to prepay service.. I might be able to dig up $99 for the box but not $250.

Currently I have limited selection of alacart channels on dish network (locals/supers/fox and cbs distants/skyangel) with a 301 receiver controlled by my tivo. I just added on Basic $11/month cable which gives me channels 2-30.

It would be nice to be able to have 2 boxes (cable or sat) controlled by the same tivo on seperate tuners, then I could add on some digital cable channels if I so desired.
Since it's only 2 analog tuners and not two svideo/ir blaster tuners I'm a bit disappointed.

On the topic of HD.. I can not afford an HD TV and probably won't ever be able to if it's >$300. Will HD sets be $300 in 5-10 years? If so I may be able to get one or whatever tv is in that price range.

So I have no need for HD... though the cable box that comcast gave me has HD channels, it is nice to watch the locals in downcoverted 16x9. I watched My Name Is Earl in widescreen letterboxed it was nice.

Jim


----------



## 1283

The DT unit is available for delivery order at circuitcity.com. There is a 10% off coupon (expires 4/29) through affiliate sites such as techbargains.com and fatwallet.com.


----------



## greg_burns

narnia777 said:


> I currently have a 40 gig black box tivo that i really want to upgrade to a new one. I was going to go for the 80 gig $19.95 for one year deal for a new box, wish they had the dual tuner for that deal instead of the single tuner. I can't afford to prepay service.. I might be able to dig up $99 for the box but not $250.


Why not just upgrade the hard drive in your current Tivo? Won't give you daul tuner, but it would be much cheaper.


----------



## MichaelK

c3 said:


> The DT unit is available for delivery order at circuitcity.com. There is a 10% off coupon (expires 4/29) through affiliate sites such as techbargains.com and fatwallet.com.


do you see a rebate? QUICK look it's still 249 but doesn't come with a year of prepaid service. I was expecting $99 or 99AR.


----------



## jfh3

MichaelK said:


> do you see a rebate? QUICK look it's still 249 but doesn't come with a year of prepaid service. I was expecting $99 or 99AR.


There was no mention of a rebate on the Circuit City (CC) site last night, just $249 retail.

There is a 10% coupon in the CC catalog just mailed last week, good through 5/25. Also a $15 off coupon mailed to CC card holders good through 5/31.

As soon as my local CC has the DTs in stock, I'm going to place an online order using both coupons and drive down to the store, hoping my order won't be ready in 24 minutes (which will net me a $24 gift card).

That said, even with all those discounts, I suspect the box will be available shortly for even less, if some of the leaked pricing from some retailers a couple weeks back hold true.

But if you want one on Monday, like me, it looks like $210 + tax at CC may be the best you can do. (And, if news reports are correct, the $150 rebate starts 5/1, so that would be $210+tax-$150 or about $76 AR in my case.)


----------



## 1283

Rebate does not start until 5/1.


----------



## mick66

A couple of not so great pics of the inside of the TCD649080
The HD is a Western Digital








Don't see much room if any for a second HD








and a screen shot of two recordings occuring at one time.


----------



## 1283

Thanks for the pictures. What's the WD drive model/name? I wonder what "second drive bracket" people will come up with. The second tuner is in the way.


----------



## mick66

model WD800BB


----------



## Jonathan_S

c3 said:


> Thanks for the pictures. What's the WD drive model/name? I wonder what "second drive bracket" people will come up with. The second tuner is in the way.


You _might_ be able to put something perpendicular to the first drive, out over the motherboard.

But unless you wanted one corner resting on a chip, you'd probably need to put a hole in the back of the case to support it.

Alternate, but much more extensive modification could be to try to fit a S1 type power supply between the motherboard and the front of the case and install the second drive next to the first. That power supply seems to be pretty wasteful in terms of space.


----------



## 1283

WD800BB: 7200rpm, 2MB cache.

I personally wouldn't put two drives in the unit. The two popular TiVo upgrade shops usually come up with something.


----------



## tomm1079

Weaknees.com we call on you for a bracket to the DT tivos!


----------



## Lukej

Stormspace said:


> Angry customers are never good for a company, but not in the way you're implying. An angry customer impacts sales regardless of whether the copany has his money or not. Get enough angry customers and you go out of business.


I guess I don't see what the anger would be about if you already have lifetime. 
You get a second TIVO for $6.95, and that can be one you keep upgrading with every new model when you feel like it, without ever having to worry about it breaking down, having its modem fried etc. To upgrade to a DVR from a simple digital box, my cable company asks for 3$. I add $3.95 and I get the full functionality of TIVO. What a great deal!
Not to mention, a lifetime subscription now would go for, say, $500 (the current e-bay market value). That is 6 years of the $6.95 plan. And you don't fork over all this money right away, or get stuck with a unit that goes bad. If anyone should be angry, it should be those who have not jumped on the TIVO bandwagon yet. Those of us with lifetime have a pretty sweet deal in my opinion.


----------



## sirfergy

Yep, my S1 lifetime is not going anywhere.


----------



## weaknees

tomm1079 said:


> Weaknees.com we call on you for a bracket to the DT tivos!


Working on it . . .


----------



## 1283

Weaknees, I would be interest in buying a single drive replacement bracket that cuts down the seek noise. That's what I miss about the Series1: sturdy and quiet.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

weaknees said:


> Working on it . . .


Any idea when we'll see a single hard drive upgrade ?


----------



## 1283

DCIFRTHS said:


> Any idea when we'll see a single hard drive upgrade ?


Someone has already upgraded the DT, as reported in the Upgrade Center. Apparently the current mfstool works fine.


----------



## weaknees

DCIFRTHS said:


> Any idea when we'll see a single hard drive upgrade ?


We are shipping these out already. Capacities from 160GB to 500GB.


----------



## dewarrn1

Looks like 7.2.2 found some bad sectors on my 4-year-old Series 2 'cause she's spontaneously rebooting every 2 minutes or so. I put in my order for the DT model last night, and I've got a 320 GB HDD on standby. Anybody have one in-hand yet (besides the Engadget guys)?

Edit: Disregard; my wish was granted while I was typing.


----------



## jfh3

weaknees said:


> We are shipping these out already. Capacities from 160GB to 500GB.


I think the poster was talking about an upgrade drive for the DT.

If you are shipping them, where are they on your web site? Couldn't find anything for the 649 series.


----------



## weaknees

jfh3 said:


> I think the poster was talking about an upgrade drive for the DT.
> 
> If you are shipping them, where are they on your web site? Couldn't find anything for the 649 series.


They are on the site here:

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-series-2-dt-649080.php


----------



## m_jonis

ZeoTiVo said:


> this box is not for people in the situation you describe. But many parts of this country will have analog cable for a long time to come. And if analog wont work in a year then what about all the analog TVs out there. whatever will make them work will make this work as well.
> 
> meanwhile wait for the S3 and don't worry about this DVR then


You ask about the analog TV's? It's called a STB. So you gotta use a box to do the conversion, but I'm not sure if the Tivo would be able to control the box and still record dual channels.


----------



## jfh3

weaknees said:


> They are on the site here:
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-series-2-dt-649080.php


Thanks. Do the upgraded drives include the pre-loaded Tivo videos?


----------



## weaknees

Nope - sorry, but those don't survive the necessary reserialization. As with all drive moves, videos are serialized to the original unit and these are no different (except in the HDR/SVR2000 models).


----------



## Gospel

Cool! I got the email and see the message on my TiVo. I am in need of a second TiVo but I didn't want another plain S2. This S2DT looks like it will do well. I will even buy the 290 hour upgrade kit from Weakness. I have ordered the S2DT. I like that it comes with 1 year of pre-paid service. And on top of that occording to the email that I got, my current TiVo's subscription price will drop to $6.95!

Thanks TiVo!
Steven


----------



## tazzftw

The problem with those who already have lifetime is that we can't get a benefit of a MSD with the bundle. If you're paying monthly, then that box will drop to 6.95. For us, our lifetime remains lifetime. Now sure, we do have lifetime which is nice, but we'd still like the bundle option at a price we deserve.


----------



## 1283

Just buy one from retail without the bundle. What's wrong with that?


----------



## tazzftw

We don't want to pay for the entire box upfront, nor do we want to deal with rebates damnit!


----------



## jfh3

tazzftw said:


> We don't want to pay for the entire box upfront, nor do we want to deal with rebates damnit!


I doubt we'll ever see Tivo offer a monthly MSD-bundle.

I hate rebates too, but without them Tivo would have to raise the effective cost of the box, I expect by somewhere between $50 and $100.

If everyone sent in for the rebate that was eligible, Tivo would have no incentive to offer a rebate in the first place.


----------



## bob61

TiVoPony said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> We've introduced a lot of boxes over the years - S1's, S2's, Nightlights, DVD players, DVD recorders, satellite boxes, UK, Taiwan, HD...the hardware team has kept very busy over the years.
> 
> It won't be long before you'll meet a new member of the family. It'll record two things at once. And it'll sport a spiffy ethernet port. I think you'll like it.
> 
> 
> 
> More details very, very soon.
> 
> Get ready...
> 
> Pony


Keep those hardware team members busy and get a HD unit released. Had to drop one of my Tivo boxes for a Comcast unit because NO HD from Tivo. Getting ready to put another HDTV in my place so will be dropping another Tivo box for a Comcast DVR.

At the price Comcast charges ($9.95 a month, service and DVR) it's probably going to be a hard sell to get me back to Tivo. Comcast DVR has dual tuner to boot.

Hate to say it but Tivo hardware technology is falling behind the times... it's software though rocks!


----------



## bob61

mtchamp said:


> The DT TiVo has an internal analog splitter. If you don't use a digital box, all you need to do is hook up a sinlge coax cable and the TiVo will tune 2 channels at once. Easy as pie!


 And if you DO have a digital cable box, well the new unit really has nothing NEW to offer then, right? I personally don't see all the excitment over this box - me guessing that most users have need for digital cable box, especially for the premium channels. Ugh!


----------



## bob61

c3 said:


> Thanks for the pictures. What's the WD drive model/name? I wonder what "second drive bracket" people will come up with. The second tuner is in the way.


Have to wonder if Tivo is just working to make it harder to upgrade the units with a second drive. Like there was no other place towards the rear of the unit to put that second tuner??


----------



## bob61

Tivo Basic Mike said:


> This Series 2 is for you cheap people who will complain about the Series 3 being $1000 and the only SA box having two tuners. Now you will have a two tuner budget box and Tivo won't get tons of email about only having one expensive two tuner box.


 If the Tivo S3 is $1000 they can keep it. With Comcast HD DVR (dual tuner) unit costing only $9.95 a month (with service included) I'd never be able to justify dropping $1K plus $12.95 a month for Tivo service. I keep waiting to see what Comcast/Tivo partnership shakes out....


----------



## aindik

bob61 said:


> And if you DO have a digital cable box, well the new unit really has nothing NEW to offer then, right? I personally don't see all the excitment over this box - me guessing that most users have need for digital cable box, especially for the premium channels. Ugh!


Not true. If you use a digital cable box, you will be able to record, at the same time, one program only available on the digital cable box, and a second program available unscrambled on the pre-box coax.


----------



## Dan203

bob61 said:


> If the Tivo S3 is $1000 they can keep it. With Comcast HD DVR (dual tuner) unit costing only $9.95 a month (with service included) I'd never be able to justify dropping $1K plus $12.95 a month for Tivo service. I keep waiting to see what Comcast/Tivo partnership shakes out....


I'm sure TiVo is going to try to keep the Series 3 units as affordable as possible. Nothing official has been announced with regards to price, but we've had unoffical reports from CES saying it will be in the $500-$800 range. Possibly lower after rebate.

Personally I don't care if they're $500 or $1000 we're getting two. The MOXI I rent from Charter is useable, but it's far from being a TiVo and the 12 hours of HD it holds is abismal!

Dan


----------



## m_jonis

I guess part of my amazement is that Tivo didn't make the DT with cable card slots. So the consumer has 3 choices: (as I see it)

1) Use the cable co's DVR @ $9.95/month (average) with "true" dual-tuner
2) Wait for series 3 and pay (let's guess here) $500-$1000
3) Use Series 2 DT but still have to rent the cable company's STB ($7.95/month plus remote/taxes/fess, around here comes to about $9.95/month) AND be lmiited to analog on the second tuner.

My guess is that most "less savvy" people would take #1. Of course, those of us that "know" how good Tivo is know how sucky the cable company's DVRs are, but people complaining about another $10-20/month in gas prices aren't gonna be taking the more expensive option of the 3, and they'll probably stick with option #1.

(although I'm sure a lot of people here will be buying the DT unit).

Granted, I have no idea how much adding 2 cable card slots would've increased the price of the unit either (maybe that was a factor)?


----------



## tazzftw

m_jonis said:


> I guess part of my amazement is that Tivo didn't make the DT with cable card slots. So the consumer has 3 choices: (as I see it)
> 
> 1) Use the cable co's DVR @ $9.95/month (average) with "true" dual-tuner
> 2) Wait for series 3 and pay (let's guess here) $500-$1000
> 3) Use Series 2 DT but still have to rent the cable company's STB ($7.95/month plus remote/taxes/fess, around here comes to about $9.95/month) AND be lmiited to analog on the second tuner.
> 
> My guess is that most "less savvy" people would take #1. Of course, those of us that "know" how good Tivo is know how sucky the cable company's DVRs are, but people complaining about another $10-20/month in gas prices aren't gonna be taking the more expensive option of the 3, and they'll probably stick with option #1.
> 
> (although I'm sure a lot of people here will be buying the DT unit).
> 
> Granted, I have no idea how much adding 2 cable card slots would've increased the price of the unit either (maybe that was a factor)?


And as someone who only has analog, how is numbe three a problem?


----------



## 1283

Most of my relatives and myself have basic analog cable. We don't care about digital cable, set top boxes, HD, etc. At least not in the near future.


----------



## 1283

This is the best description I have seen. There is even a brochure in PDF format.

http://www.abtelectronics.com/scripts/site/site_product.php3?id=23325

Amazon's description is *wrong*.


----------



## jfh3

m_jonis said:


> I guess part of my amazement is that Tivo didn't make the DT with cable card slots.


Not only would adding cable cards have added a lot of cost (and complexity), still very few people use cable cards.

The Series 2 DT is the "mass market, basic cable" box. Tivo needs to get the effective cost of the box as close to $0 as possible.

The Series 3 is the high-end (for now) box for power users.


----------



## jfh3

c3 said:


> There is even a brochure in PDF format.


Hey Pony - how come we had to wait to see this from an online retailer?

As hungry as this group is for real info, it would've been nice to see this before now. 

Hope you can find a place for it on tivo.com.


----------



## mattack

Bierboy said:


> And, seriously, how high can the percentage be of TiVo users who get OTA only AND would have a lot of scheduling conflicts?


Umm, a lot?

I have extended basic analog cable (ok I'm temporarily on a 3 month digital package, but have not bothered making either of my Tivos control the box)..

Though I watch and record a lot of cable shows, the *conflicts* are largely for network prime time shows. So just like I do with analog cable, anybody that watches mostly network shows will have a lot of conflicts.

(thankfully some of the channels are rerunning some network primetime shows, like Apprentice on CNBC.. though they SKIPPED the second episode that was run in a 2 hour block a few weeks ago.. so I ended up missing the pizza one..)

In other words, I think the percentage of OTA users that have scheduling conflicts is just as much if not more than the analog users who watch mostly network programming.


----------



## 1283

c3 said:


> This is the best description I have seen. There is even a brochure in PDF format.
> 
> http://www.abtelectronics.com/scripts/site/site_product.php3?id=23325


BTW, this is from the brochure:

Pallet dimensions and weight: Approx. 48" w x 40" d x 49" h, 600 lbs (7 layers with 6 cartons per layer; 42 cartons per pallet total)

I guess the brochure is not meant for typical consumers.


----------



## jfh3

c3 said:


> BTW, this is from the brochure:
> 
> Pallet dimensions and weight: Approx. 48" w x 40" d x 49" h, 600 lbs (7 layers with 6 cartons per layer; 42 cartons per pallet total)
> 
> I guess the brochure is not meant for typical consumers.


Even with that line, that brochure would do more to education consumers on what Tivo is/does than anything I've ever seen in the retail channel.


----------



## livestrong

TiVoPony said:


> Product Lifetime is gone, it's not available any longer.
> 
> You can enjoy your existing Series2 with lifetime, or sell it (likely for a nice profit) and use part of the proceeds to pick up a Series2 DT.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


This is what I have decided to do. I have already ordered my S2 DT. I am pumped.


----------



## livestrong

Dan203 said:


> You will need either a wireless USB adapter OR a wireless network bridge. The USB adapter would work just like current TiVos. The bridge would plug into Ethernet port and translate the Ethernet signal to wireless. This is the same system used for game systems like the XBox.
> 
> Dan


Am I still able to use the DLink adapter that I have been using with my S2 ST?


----------



## TivoZorro

Will each tuner have it's own Now Playing List?


----------



## cwoody222

TivoZorro said:


> Will each tuner have it's own Now Playing List?


Doubt it; what would be the purpose?


----------



## m_jonis

tazzftw said:


> And as someone who only has analog, how is numbe three a problem?


In that case, you're all set. I guess the only people that *I* personally know all have a cable plan that requires a STB (except for my parents, but they still have a Windows 98 computer without USB ports and use dial-up internet connection).


----------



## TivoZorro

cwoody222 said:


> Doubt it; what would be the purpose?


I guess maybe I was thinking of the To Do List instead. Will it indicate what is being recorded on each tuner?


----------



## classicsat

livestrong said:


> Am I still able to use the DLink adapter that I have been using with my S2 ST?


No reason why not.


----------



## classicsat

narnia777 said:


> Wow interesting discussions in this thread.
> I can't afford to prepay service.. I might be able to dig up $99 for the box but not $250.


Except the $99 is after rebate. You will have to put down at least $250 either way. 
Maybe when monthly bundled prices are established you can handle that.


----------



## classicsat

greg_burns said:


> #5 would be yes as long as it is running 7.2.0 or greater version of the software (which all new Tivos are). caveat: if you buy an older model (non DT) that has been sitting on a store shelf for quite awhile, it may not be.


The DT has 7.2.5, so will set up over the network. Ethernet is built in, so you don't need to deal with wired adapters.


----------



## m_jonis

jfh3 said:


> Not only would adding cable cards have added a lot of cost (and complexity), still very few people use cable cards.
> 
> The Series 2 DT is the "mass market, basic cable" box. Tivo needs to get the effective cost of the box as close to $0 as possible.
> 
> The Series 3 is the high-end (for now) box for power users.


Too bad they didn't have a "medium" box that could compete with the cable co DVR. (and by compete I mean on a price point). Even though I would LOVE to get a Series 3 DVR, I'm going to have a VERY hard time justifying $500-1000 PLUS the monthly fee, when I can use my cable companies DVR for $9.95/month (and I hate the TW DVR).

But maybe they'll introduce a 2.75 series (haha) for the "medium" user.

Or I can always hope that the Series 3 will be priced somewhat competitively on a "monthly fee" basis. ($20/month would seem to be able to compete against my cable DVR, but I doubt they'll have it that cheap).


----------



## Budget_HT

TivoZorro said:


> I guess maybe I was thinking of the To Do List instead. Will it indicate what is being recorded on each tuner?


All of the software for managing 2 tuners has existed since around 2001, when they first implemented the second tuner built into the DirecTV TiVo units.

I would expect the new SA DT unit to operate very much like the DirecTiVo's, if not identically.

There is only one Now Playing List and one To Do list. The To Do list identifies the channel and program to be recorded, but not the specific tuner (on the DirecTiVo unit). In fact, the user never knows which tuner is which unless one is not working (e.g., satellite feed gone or not working).

That said, it seems like the tuner management in the new SA DT unit will be a little more complicated because there are three possible recording sources: cable tuners 1 & 2 and the line input that can be used with an external cable box. But only two can be used at the same time. This is similar to the DirecTV HD TiVo actually having 4 physical tuners, 2 satellite and 2 OTA. TiVo software pairs them up into two combined tuners since it can only record two programs at once.

I would expect the software portion of this new box to be very stable because the bulk of it (or maybe all of it) existed long before the hardware package was ever assembled.


----------



## Lukej

m_jonis said:


> Too bad they didn't have a "medium" box that could compete with the cable co DVR. (and by compete I mean on a price point). Even though I would LOVE to get a Series 3 DVR, I'm going to have a VERY hard time justifying $500-1000 PLUS the monthly fee, when I can use my cable companies DVR for $9.95/month (and I hate the TW DVR).


Yep. Even though I won't buy a dual tuner yet because I will wait to see what the series 3 is like, I have a feeling series 3 will be geared more towards the HD users than anyone else, so I will end up with a dual tuner instead. I have a series 2 TIVO with digital cable (and used to have a cable company DVR that always missed the last minute or so--you would think their own guide would be more accurate or as accurate as TIVO's but is not) and I live in a small town (about 20,000) where when I last inquired about cablecard with my cable operator, they asked me what I needed that for.


----------



## tazzftw

Man I wish I had this while I was still in the dorm (this is my last semester in one). Everything is perfect: 80 channels, all analogue, including premium channels.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

m_jonis said:


> In that case, you're all set. I guess the only people that *I* personally know all have a cable plan that requires a STB (except for my parents, but they still have a Windows 98 computer without USB ports and use dial-up internet connection).


Actually 40% of households are still analog and that is likely a very intractable group now.

There are a few like me who still have analog that are waiting to swotch to digital. Frankly digital has nothing on it I want except HD. Premium channles get movies too long after I can rent them on DVD. The HBO original shows have come close but I would just get the analog HBO if I did that. HD I can wait for as I know the HD sets are just getting better and cheaper every 3 months.

So I live in analog simplicity (though I have broadband wired all through the house ) of hooking up as many TVs as I want with no worries, not having to deal with a STB remote and hooking up TiVos completely hassle free. This dual tuner will save me a MSD sub and have a nice big now playing list.
It is perfect for us not wanting to send the cable company an extra 20$ a month for the hassle of needing a STB or else just to then be able to send the cable company another 10$ a month to get a mediocre DVR that I can not upgrade the hard drive in or copy shows off of.

My actual plan is to use the DT for even easier scheduling and the etehrnet for faster TTG. Then I will watch how the patnet infringement works out and it Time Warner will start to use TiVo software vs how the prcing on the S3 shakes out. I imagine just waiting a year after release will see some interesting shake out on price and what the cable companies do.


----------



## m_jonis

ZeoTiVo said:


> Actually 40% of households are still analog and that is likely a very intractable group now.
> 
> There are a few like me who still have analog that are waiting to swotch to digital. Frankly digital has nothing on it I want except HD. Premium channles get movies too long after I can rent them on DVD. The HBO original shows have come close but I would just get the analog HBO if I did that. HD I can wait for as I know the HD sets are just getting better and cheaper every 3 months.
> 
> So I live in analog simplicity (though I have broadband wired all through the house ) of hooking up as many TVs as I want with no worries, not having to deal with a STB remote and hooking up TiVos completely hassle free. This dual tuner will save me a MSD sub and have a nice big now playing list.
> It is perfect for us not wanting to send the cable company an extra 20$ a month for the hassle of needing a STB or else just to then be able to send the cable company another 10$ a month to get a mediocre DVR that I can not upgrade the hard drive in or copy shows off of.
> 
> My actual plan is to use the DT for even easier scheduling and the etehrnet for faster TTG. Then I will watch how the patnet infringement works out and it Time Warner will start to use TiVo software vs how the prcing on the S3 shakes out. I imagine just waiting a year after release will see some interesting shake out on price and what the cable companies do.


Yeah, I don't like having to rent the stupid STB (that's why I'm waiting for a cable card Tivo).

As for the ethernet, I THINK (I could be wrong here) that I'd read maybe on CNET's review that the TTG transfer rates are just as slow as they are now. Which, I guess if the Tivo needs to maintain a certain "level of service" (I'd posted something about why could MRV be faster with USB 2.0 and got the "lesson" that it's basically coded to only transfer a certain speed in order to make sure that other playback functions aren't affected).


----------



## ZeoTiVo

m_jonis said:


> Yeah, I don't like having to rent the stupid STB (that's why I'm waiting for a cable card Tivo).
> 
> As for the ethernet, I THINK (I could be wrong here) that I'd read maybe on CNET's review that the TTG transfer rates are just as slow as they are now. Which, I guess if the Tivo needs to maintain a certain "level of service" (I'd posted something about why could MRV be faster with USB 2.0 and got the "lesson" that it's basically coded to only transfer a certain speed in order to make sure that other playback functions aren't affected).


the CNET review was full of holes. I expect much different results when people get these and test it with some knowledge of how TTG and MRV works.

It looks like the cnet review was using a fairly old version of TiVo desktop. then it said TTG and MRV were the smae speed which it is not. It is very likely the new DT unit will have a faster processor, better motherboard, better memory which will speed things up and make better use of the ethernet speed.

the "schooling" on the system having to handle many things and thus coded in priority to real time things like recording or direct playback is correct. Most likely why no thernet before - either the whole system had to be upgraded and thus much more expensive or else just use the USB port and an adapter since it would make no real difference anyway.
Now with better integrated hardware today than 5 years ago at a much lower price - time to add in ethernet and make use of th overall boost in performance.

I await my DT to see the results first hand.


----------



## m_jonis

ZeoTiVo said:


> the CNET review was full of holes. I expect much different results when people get these and test it with some knowledge of how TTG and MRV works.
> 
> It looks like the cnet review was using a fairly old version of TiVo desktop. then it said TTG and MRV were the smae speed which it is not. It is very likely the new DT unit will have a faster processor, better motherboard, better memory which will speed things up and make better use of the ethernet speed.
> 
> the "schooling" on the system having to handle many things and thus coded in priority to real time things like recording or direct playback is correct. Most likely why no thernet before - either the whole system had to be upgraded and thus much more expensive or else just use the USB port and an adapter since it would make no real difference anyway.
> Now with better integrated hardware today than 5 years ago at a much lower price - time to add in ethernet and make use of th overall boost in performance.
> 
> I await my DT to see the results first hand.


Cool. Would you mind posting a review or something when you do get it? I'm curious to see if the ethernet speed (I've got a 100MB switched network at home) has better MRV and/or TTG transfer rates.

Thanks!


----------



## jfh3

TivoZorro said:


> I guess maybe I was thinking of the To Do List instead. Will it indicate what is being recorded on each tuner?


It should be just like the existing DirecTivos in that regard - when you look at the todo list, you'll just see a list of programs to be recorded.

There's no indication of whether it's tuner 1 or tuner 2 - and realistically, you shouldn't care.


----------



## BlackBetty

I wish TiVo would sell a version with no hard drive. This would be for those of us that plan on swapping out the drive for a much larger drive. I think $69.99 after rebate sounds fair


----------



## Andyw2100

BlackBetty said:


> I wish TiVo would sell a version with no hard drive. This would be for those of us that plan on swapping out the drive for a much larger drive. I think $69.99 after rebate sounds fair


You don't think you could sell your 80 hour drive for $30 (or more) somewhere?
Andy W.


----------



## ADent

So the FCC mandate on ATSC tuners will stop the building of this box after 3/3007 or does that only apply to box with OTA tuners (this box has only a analog cable tuner)?


----------



## Gospel

BlackBetty said:


> I wish TiVo would sell a version with no hard drive. This would be for those of us that plan on swapping out the drive for a much larger drive. I think $69.99 after rebate sounds fair


When my S2DT and 290 hour Weakness upgrade comes, I plan to put the 80 hour in my current S2 as a scond drive after I make sure the S2DT is running OK. I should have ordered the S2 two drive bracket when I ordered the 290 hour upgrade kit.

Just to make sure, can I use the 80 hour S2DT drive as a second drive in my current S2? I assume that I'lll need to reformat the 80 hour drive. Is that correct?

Thanks,
Steven


----------



## DavidO

ADent said:


> So the FCC mandate on ATSC tuners will stop the building of this box after 3/3007 or does that only apply to box with OTA tuners (this box has only a analog cable tuner)?


The way I understand it, the S2DT will comply, but only because it's crippled (lacks an NTSC OTA tuner). I suspect that the hardware is capable of using NTSC OTA, but the software doesn't use / enable it.

I think this is an un-intended side-effort from the FCC mandate. Imagine the complaints Tivo would get if units built prior to the cut-off date had the ability to use NTSC OTA tuners, and those made after the cut-off date didn't.


----------



## greg_burns

Gospel said:


> When my S2DT and 290 hour Weakness upgrade comes, I plan to put the 80 hour in my current S2 as a scond drive after I make sure the S2DT is running OK. I should have ordered the S2 two drive bracket when I ordered the 290 hour upgrade kit.
> 
> Just to make sure, can I use the 80 hour S2DT drive as a second drive in my current S2? I assume that I'lll need to reformat the 80 hour drive. Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steven


In order to put a second drive in a S2 you need a mounting bracket, Power Trip thingie, and ideally, another fan (you can get all from weakness as well). I have two drives in my S2, but I wouldn't bother doing this just to add 80GB. You'll just end up with increased noise and greater chance for failure.

If you are going to have two drives nowadays, they should both really be big (> 300GB) to justify it, IMO.


----------



## dmk1974

Best Buy has the 80 hr version listed with a $25 gift card from them. Hopefully tomorrow there will also be a TiVo $150 rebate as well.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...t&productCategoryId=cat03021&id=1140394006193


----------



## davezatz

Best buy now has the dual tuner units up and not in stock:
80 hour 
180 hour

Circuit City has the 80 hour and let's me add it to the cart (though the new rebate doesn't go into effect until tomorrow, so don't buy it...):
80 hour


----------



## Rose4uKY

So it says the 180 is 349 does that include your 12.95 prepay for one year and is there a rebate on it? I asked about the 180 when I ordered my 80 and they said it wasn't available yet and I couldn't get it.. I have two 80 hours now so I should be ok with my 80 hour but 180 sounds nice.. I already ordered the 80 one and thought I got a good deal paying 99 bucks for it. Plus I am selling one of my other 80 hour S2 for 100 bucks so this new one will of cost me nothing.. So I don't need to want the 180 one.. I've been fine now with 2 x 80 hours with low quality and then I delete after I watch most shows..

But I do have another question though.. My one Tivo now in the bedroom works fine and it's hooked up to this 20 inch TV that doesn't have S Video... I was thinking of maybe upgrading my TV back there but is there that much of a difference if my TV has S Video?.. I just want a flat tube with S Video If I even get a new one.. I don't want HD yet.. But If I upgrade I may go from 20 to 24 or 27 inch.. I know they say picture quality is better with S Video but I am wondering how big of a difference?


----------



## puckettcg

I've searched the posts and haven't seen this question addressed. But there are a lot of posts, so I apologize if the question has been asked and answered. The DT has two USB 2.0 ports, and if you use one to connect the wireless adapter, you have one left. What would someone use the second port for? Could you, for example, use it to connect a USB 2.0 external drive and thus increase your storage?


----------



## greg_burns

puckettcg said:


> I've searched the posts and haven't seen this question addressed. But there are a lot of posts, so I apologize if the question has been asked and answered. The DT has two USB 2.0 ports, and if you use one to connect the wireless adapter, you have one left. What would someone use the second port for? Could you, for example, use it to connect a USB 2.0 external drive and thus increase your storage?


You wouldn't connect the second one to anything. Just most mobo configurations have two ports, so that is what Tivo has is my guess.

You cannot add storage via USB on a S2. The S3 will allow this via a Sata connector.


----------



## bedelman

greg_burns said:


> You wouldn't connect the second one to anything.


Well, not anything terribly important. Some folks have attached those USB-powered lights or USB-powered fans to the extra port.


----------



## LoraJ

I no longer have a regular phone line and my TiVo's are hooked up to my internet. Will this TiVo be able to go through setup via the ethernet or do I have to find a phone line for it?


----------



## greg_burns

LoraJ said:


> I no longer have a regular phone line and my TiVo's are hooked up to my internet. Will this TiVo be able to go through setup via the ethernet or do I have to find a phone line for it?


It has been reported that the DTs are running 7.2.5 software version. Anything at or above 7.2.0 support broadband guided setup.


----------



## bedelman

LoraJ said:


> I no longer have a regular phone line and my TiVo's are hooked up to my internet. Will this TiVo be able to go through setup via the ethernet or do I have to find a phone line for it?


I set one up yesterday without needing a phone line. I used an older supported Belkin USB 802.11b adapter I had laying around.

The software version was 7.2.5 and anything at 7.1 or higher provides for initial guided setup with only a network connection


----------



## Jonathan_S

Gospel said:


> When my S2DT and 290 hour Weakness upgrade comes, I plan to put the 80 hour in my current S2 as a scond drive after I make sure the S2DT is running OK. I should have ordered the S2 two drive bracket when I ordered the 290 hour upgrade kit.
> 
> Just to make sure, can I use the 80 hour S2DT drive as a second drive in my current S2? I assume that I'lll need to reformat the 80 hour drive. Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steven


You might have to wait for weakness to design a S2 DT two drive bracket. The internal pictures I saw posted in another thread seem to show that the layout has been redone, and the dual cable tuners block where the existing drive bracket would have gone.

There should be any reason that the S2 DT can't handle two drives, but physically mounting them inside the box may be interesting.

Edit: The pictures were actually earlier in this thread. This post


----------



## Einselen

Jonathan_S said:


> You might have to wait for weakness to design a S2 DT two drive bracket. The internal pictures I saw posted in another thread seem to show that the layout has been redone, and the dual cable tuners block where the existing drive bracket would have gone.
> 
> There should be any reason that the S2 DT can't handle two drives, but physically mounting them inside the box may be interesting.


I think Gospel was going to put the 290 in the S2 DT as a replacement and then take the 80 from the S2 DT and add it as a second drive in their S2.


----------



## weaknees

We've been posting info about this issue in our blog (not sure if we're allowed to post a link here, so we'll skip it) but we have bracket and second drive info there. At this point, "blessed" drives won't work in these units, but "mfsadd" will work.


----------



## Gospel

Rose4uKY said:


> But I do have another question though.. My one Tivo now in the bedroom works fine and it's hooked up to this 20 inch TV that doesn't have S Video... I was thinking of maybe upgrading my TV back there but is there that much of a difference if my TV has S Video?.. I just want a flat tube with S Video If I even get a new one.. I don't want HD yet.. But If I upgrade I may go from 20 to 24 or 27 inch.. I know they say picture quality is better with S Video but I am wondering how big of a difference?


Yes, using s-video shows much better video quality over composite vide. About a month ago, I did a side by side comparison of the out put form the same TiVo. I notices a lot much less color artifacts and a much clearner picture via the s-video hookup. Both cables tasted are monster cables.

Enjoy life!
Steven


----------



## dmk1974

Gospel said:


> Yes, using s-video shows much better video quality over composite vide. About a month ago, I did a side by side comparison of the out put form the same TiVo. I notices a lot much less color artifacts and a much clearner picture via the s-video hookup. Both cables tasted are monster cables.
> 
> Enjoy life!
> Steven


In my experience, for 20-36" tube TVs, yes, the s-video is much better. However, for my 57" rear projection TV, when I placed a good Monster composite video cable on it, I think it looked better than s-video which was much more grainy. Especially for sports.


----------



## tomm1079

weaknees said:


> We've been posting info about this issue in our blog (not sure if we're allowed to post a link here, so we'll skip it) but we have bracket and second drive info there. At this point, "blessed" drives won't work in these units, but "mfsadd" will work.


i just hope you guys are able to get everything going. I actually just bought 2 300 gig hard drives to put into it. Waiting on the new bracket to come out so i will be able to do it all at once.


----------



## davezatz

Weaknees reports the newer 7.2.2 "undelete" feature seems to be missing. That's odd! Can anyone confirm this? If accurate, I wonder what the timeframe for an ugprade would be... I remember waiting like a YEAR for my SD-H400 units to be upgraded to the grid guide feature (and they never got the 30 second skip).


----------



## Bytez

I find that tivo doesn't use a good encoder, my dvd recorder produces better quality video than the tivo's. How come the video from tivotogo is at 480x480? I wish it was 720x480 instead.

Would this connection work:

Split from main cable feed into 2 - 

1st line goes to digital box --> s-video IN of Tivo. 
2nd line goes to coax IN of tivo (internal splitter)

could I record 2 basic analog chanels at once, one digital + 1 analog, 2 analog at once?

this is the setup for a triple tuner


----------



## Rose4uKY

Thaks for responding I know now that I should have a better TV back there with S Video.. I don't really need HD yet and I know this Tivo isn't HD but I saw a really nice HD Flat Panel TV that I would like to have tonight.. It was a 27 inch widescreen flat panel Toshiba with a DVD player built in.. Anyoen familar with this one? If I am to go HD I want the casble card slot.. Best Buy said there doing away with HD TV;s with cable card slots.. I don't need the cable companies Box since it's a DVR that would be a waste of 13.99.. The cable card is 2 bucks a month.. The guy at Best Buy said with the cable card all the digital channels I get out front in my LR would come in back in the BR.. But then he said I could only record basic and not digital.. I thought it was one basic and one digital but maybe he meant since I wasn't going to have a box I don't know but I record most stuff on Basic anyway and can record digital in my LR..

But this TV was nice and on sale with 12 months financing.. So now I have to decide whether to get that or a regular flat tube with S Video.. I am calling my cable company tomorrow cause Best Buy said my companies cable cards don't work so well with Toshiba they work better with Sony and the Sony was way to expensive for me.. So is the Toshiba but I liked it.. Then when the HD Tivo comes out I can put the DT in my LR sell that one and put the HD one in the BR..

But thanks for answering the S Video question... Now it's do I really want to spend the money and get this HD flat panel.. I think I'll spend a couple hundred and just get a regular TV with S Video now back to Best Buy online to see what they have.. Thanks, Rose


----------



## davezatz

Rose4uKY said:


> Thaks for responding I know now that I should have a better TV back there with S Video.. I don't really need HD yet and I know this Tivo isn't HD but I saw a really nice HD Flat Panel TV that I would like to have tonight.. It was a 27 inch widescreen flat panel Toshiba with a DVD player built in.. Anyoen familar with this one? If I am to go HD I want the casble card slot.. Best Buy said there doing away with HD TV;s with cable card slots.. I don't need the cable companies Box since it's a DVR that would be a waste of 13.99.. The cable card is 2 bucks a month.. The guy at Best Buy said with the cable card all the digital channels I get out front in my LR would come in back in the BR.. But then he said I could only record basic and not digital.. I thought it was one basic and one digital but maybe he meant since I wasn't going to have a box I don't know but I record most stuff on Basic anyway and can record digital in my LR..e


The Best Buy guy was probably suggesting a scenario where you split your cable with one going into the TiVo for basic cable (it can't decode anything) and the other into the TV for the entire range of channels including digital. With that set-up your TiVo wouldn't see any of the digital channels.

If you had a cable box and the TiVo, you'd probably also split the cable but in this case the TiVo would actually be able to record the digital channels on one tuner (and the basic channels on the other).

Neither scenario would allow you to record in HD, though the first would include HD digital cable viewing. Also in the first scenario there's really no point in having a DT model unless you expect many basic cable channel conflicts. If you're set on HD and dual tuners and don't want the clutter or expense of another cable box, you should probably wait for the Series 3.

Just one man's opinion...


----------



## Rose4uKY

I know I can't record in HD and I already ordered the DT for 99 bucks cause I am selling my other 80 hour series 2 for 99 bucks.. So this DT isn't costing me anything but paying a year of 12.95 up front for 1 year.. But yes since I started getting into American Idol I have had several issues of 3 show conflicts and have had to skip a show and not record it.. There all on Basic cable channels though.. But with this Toshiba I know I could watch some HDTV on the flat panel LCD but I don't really watch live TV I watch recorded stuff.. BUt I would watch HD stuff if I bought this.. I may get a Series 3 later on down the line if I get this and sell my other Tivo out in the LR who knows.. I don't care if this Tivo didn't see the digital channels in the BR cause I can record a show on Digital out front in my LR.. As long as I could do 2 basic channels I would be ok.. But I may just wait before getting an HD TV.. I just hate to buy a new regular TV when I know in the future I should have HD.. I just need S Video really on a regular TV.. It's not bad now on my 20 inch non S Video and I can't do a side by side comparison but someone else said S Video was uch better.. Thanks, Rose


----------



## davezatz

SVideo is better but I'm not sure how obvious it is to everyone and how *much* better it actually is... how picky are you on visual quality? How far do you sit from that 20" TV? Most importantly, are you unhappy with how it currently looks?

If you get the HD set, you and split the cable and picked up a CableCARD like in scenario one - you'd have dual tuning on the TiVo of analog cable and you'd have everything on the TV itself. So you could record two shows via the TiVo and watch live TV in digital and/or HD simultaniously. Not such a bad proposition. 

It's possible the Best Buy guy doesn't know what he's talking about when discussing compatibility of CableCARDs - the reason they exist is to have a standard that everyone follows. I've never heard of them working better with one brand versus another.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Thanks, My Tivo out here in the LR is S Video and yes It is a better picture then in the BR but not enough for me to really need to buy a new TV just for the S Video.. If I was going to buy a new TV it would be for the HD.. I know I already bought this DT and can always get an S3 later on but this Toshiba 27 inch flat panel was just nice. The picture was nice and I liked the built in DVD player.. They have a 32 inch version also for a little more.. I just think it would look nice back in my bedroom but I don't need it really.. I lay in bed and my TV is in the corner of my room not real close but not far far away.. I guess I am ok the way I am.. I just know that if I get an HDTV I want to be able to use the cable card since I have Tivo and not my cable companies HD DVR Box.. And the Best Buy guy said the flat panel LCD was better then this one projection TV with cable card slot.. I'll think about it and decide what I want to do this week. I guess I can wait on HD.. My DT should be here in a couple days and I thought that Toshiba would be nice but I probably wont get it...

But thanks for your replies..

Rose


----------



## tazzftw

Man what a time to announce this. I've had so many recording conflicts this weekend that it's insane.


----------



## JPLA90027

TivoZorro said:


> On the Tivo Website it says the following:
> 
> If you purchased a TiVo Package Payment Plan, your DVR will arrive to you pre-activated
> 
> Does this mean the 80-hour Dual Tuner with the Prepay 1 year I just purchased will be preactivated?
> 
> It will ship on Monday and be here on Wednesday. Can't believe it is going to get here that fast.
> 
> The lady told me I could track my order on tivo.com but I couldn't find where to do that at.


I received my new dual tuner box yesterday, and it was preactivated. Made setting up much easier. I opened the box and unpacked the unit. I disconnected my old Series 2 which seems to have a failing hard drive, and used all the same cables on the new unit. This includes the wireless network adapter. At no point did I connect a phone line.

I went through the steps of entering my zip code and cable company name and such, and the unit began it's download. The entire installation took about 30 minutes. I was able to start entering season passes and wish lists right away. A preactivated unit on a broadband network is a joy to setup.

Judge


----------



## bluedakar

Hi All, 
I've been an occasional lurker over the years and this site has been invaluable to me when it comes to answering my TiVo questions. I am finally compelled to ask a question to which I can not find an answer! 
I know the Series 2 DT does not have OTA tuners built in, but will it work if the input is from a High Definition Terrestrial Tuner or possibly one of the USDTV tuners?


----------



## Rose4uKY

Wow glad to hear the set up was so easy.. Guess I'll do the same thing unplug my old Series 2 that I am selling and hook up the new DT the same way.. Does cables come with the new one? I need to give my cables to the guy that is buying my old one if they came with my old one.. I just have basic cable back there and don't use those IR things back there but he may need them I hope I can find them.. I am calling Tivo now to find out the status of my order..


----------



## livestrong

Rose4uKY said:


> I am calling Tivo now to find out the status of my order..


I placed my order Saturday morning, and I just got an email 15 minutes ago that my new TiVo was shipped on Sunday. Hope that helps you out.


----------



## Rose4uKY

It was shipped on Sunday? I ordered mine Wednesday afternoon and was told it was told it would take 4 business days. Then I called back the next day and was told it would take 24-48 hours just for my order to process then 4 business days.. But they didn't ask for my e-mail so I haven't gotten anything. I need to call and get the Fed Ex tracking number.. I can't hook it up till I get everythinf I need off my old one.. My Tivo desktop is version 2.1 did I read there is a 2.2 out? Do I need to get that if there is? Thanks, Rose


----------



## davezatz

Amazon has posted the new rebate... $150 off 5/1 - 6/3. Wonder if all single tuner stock will be sold by 6/3?  They aren't shipping the DT yet, though it's probably imminent. So if you want the unit for $99 and $6.95/mo you know what to do.

Here's the PDF link if you're interested: http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/00/10/00/18/37/79/100018377933._V54211948_.pdf


----------



## 483

Anyone have a link to order off TiVo.com? I cannot find it

-Thanks


----------



## davezatz

********* said:


> Anyone have a link to order off TiVo.com? I cannot find it
> 
> -Thanks


http://tivo.com/0.11.offer.DT.asp


----------



## rainwater

davezatz said:


> http://tivo.com/0.11.offer.DT.asp


Of course that release is mainly for current subscribers. I assume they will be making the DT public on their website at some point with similar pricing options that they offer for the old S2 (except for a 'hardware upgrade' fee). Of course its anybody's guess as to when they will implement those options.


----------



## 483

Perfect 

Thanks


----------



## lajohn27

Hate to ask a stupid question - but has anyone posted motherboard / internal pictures of the S2DT yet? I searched but couldn't really find anything.

J


----------



## davezatz

rainwater said:


> Of course that release is mainly for current subscribers.
> I assume they will be making the DT public on their website at some point with similar pricing options that they offer for the old S2 (except for a 'hardware upgrade' fee). Of course its anybody's guess as to when they will implement those options.


The silly thing is, most current subscribers would qualify for a multi-unit discount but this offer is essentially charging full price for monthly service. Not a great deal really (unless someone will do anything to avoid the rebate merrygoround).

In another thread I think you saw the new pricing options I posted... I assume they'll go live shortly:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3989649&&#post3989649


----------



## gonzotek

lajohn27 said:


> Hate to ask a stupid question - but has anyone posted motherboard / internal pictures of the S2DT yet? I searched but couldn't really find anything.
> 
> J


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3986541&&#post3986541


----------



## ah30k

lajohn27 said:


> Hate to ask a stupid question - but has anyone posted motherboard / internal pictures of the S2DT yet? I searched but couldn't really find anything.
> J


I think on page 16 of this very thread has photos.


----------



## rainwater

davezatz said:


> The silly thing is, most current subscribers would qualify for a multi-unit discount but this offer is essentially charging full price for monthly service. Not a great deal really (unless someone will do anything to avoid the rebate merrygoround).
> 
> In another thread I think you saw the new pricing options I posted... I assume they'll go live shortly:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3989649&&#post3989649


Yeah, I said earlier (or maybe in another thread), that the current deal wasn't really a deal at all for current subscribers (unless they are just replacing their current subscription). I guess if you have only one TiVo, prepaying for 1 year wouldn't be much of a loss since they switch your current plan to 6.95.


----------



## aindik

davezatz said:


> The silly thing is, most current subscribers would qualify for a multi-unit discount but this offer is essentially charging full price for monthly service. Not a great deal really (unless someone will do anything to avoid the rebate merrygoround).
> 
> In another thread I think you saw the new pricing options I posted... I assume they'll go live shortly:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3989649&&#post3989649


It's a good deal for a current subscriber currently paying the full monthly price on any box, because the offer will change that box to $6.95 a month (and you'll be paying full price on the new box).

For customers who have lifetime, it's a crappy deal.


----------



## davezatz

aindik said:


> It's a good deal for a current subscriber currently paying the full monthly price on any box, because the offer will change that box to $6.95 a month (and you'll be paying full price on the new box).
> 
> For customers who have lifetime, it's a crappy deal.


My two other active boxes have 1 year pre-paid subscriptions currently in progress, so it's not good for me either.


----------



## ashu

I bet this HAS been raised already, but this (almost, effectively) replaces two TiVos! So not getting the MSD for the first year isn't THAT bad.

I have switched away from Dish to Cable (among other things, in preparation for the new S3 whenever it comes out!) and I have on cable DVR controlled by a TiVo for SD recordings, one cable box controlled by another TiVo, and two TiVos connected directly to coaxial cable. 

In theory, I could replace these 4 units with two D2s and actually (almost) save money. I say almost, because I now have lifeteime on one. If I didn't the math would have been

Current: 12.95 + 3 x (6.95) = 33.8
versus, with two DTs: 2 * 12.95 = 25.90

Of course, then they'd only be connected to two TVs, as opposed to the 3 TVs I have now, but one TV is (newly) redundant anyway!

So, it's not such a bad deal. Heck, I'm half-considering doing this anyway if I can sell two other units!


----------



## rainwater

ashu said:


> I bet this HAS been raised already, but this (almost, effectively) replaces two TiVos! So not getting the MSD for the first year isn't THAT bad.
> 
> I have switched away from Dish to Cable (among other things, in preparation for the new S3 whenever it comes out!) and I have on cable DVR controlled by a TiVo for SD recordings, one cable box controlled by another TiVo, and two TiVos connected directly to coaxial cable.
> 
> In theory, I could replace these 4 units with two D2s and actually (almost) save money. I say almost, because I now have lifeteime on one. If I didn't the math would have been
> 
> Current: 12.95 + 3 x (6.95) = 33.8
> versus, with two DTs: 2 * 12.95 = 25.90
> 
> So, it's not such a bad deal. Heck, I'm half-considering doing this anyway if I can sell two other units!


I agree, its not a horrible deal for that type of situation. But I would imagine most of TiVo subscribers that have multiple TiVos have them in separate rooms and aren't using them to achieve dual tuner functionality. So for them, this would just be to add a box or to replace a single box.


----------



## davezatz

ashu said:


> So, it's not such a bad deal. Heck, I'm half-considering doing this anyway if I can sell two other units!


Or you can buy from Best Buy or Amazon later this week for $99 (after rebate) and pay $6.95/mo. I didn't read the rebate fine print though... I wonder how many units you can use it on?


----------



## ab3tx

ah30k said:


> I think on page 16 of this very thread has photos.


Or Post #455...

I only have 12 pages so far.


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## Rose4uKY

Well it was a great deal for me cause I am currently paying 12.95 and 6.95. I have a Tivo in my LR and BR.. So me pre paying my 12.95 for 1 year was fine and I will still pay my 6.95 for a year then after 1 year I will go back to the same as I am now 12.95 and 6.95.. Plus I am selling my old 80 hour Sereis 2 for 99 bucks so It's like getting this new DT for nothing.. So it worked out good for me... My neighbor friend already has a 40 hour Tivo he keeps back in his bedroom sio he is going to move that out in his living room where he has digital cable and then he is going to put the 80 hour one he buys from me back in his bedroom.. But he is getting a good deal also 99 bucks for an 80 hour.. He doesn't record as much as me and he doesn't need the DT.. Ok I need to call Tivo still and check on my order...


----------



## rainwater

They have updated the tivo.com store with the DT now.


----------



## aindik

Deals appear to be the same combined box/service monthly/prepay options as the old 80 hour box, which were introduced in March, plus a one-time $30 fee to "upgrade" to the DT box. 

Still no option at TiVo.com for current lifetime subscribers or subscribers with ongoing prepaid service to get this box and use MSD.


----------



## Rose4uKY

I got my tracking number and my DT will be here tomorrow which is good.. Gives me time to transfer more shows and even watch a bunch to get them off the Tivo.. I am so wanting to go charge this 27 inch flat panel HD TV though and then get the cable card from my cable company... I know the Tivo isn't HD but I loved the picture on this Toshiba flat panel and it had a built in DVD player I don't have a DVD player back in my bedroom...


----------



## davezatz

aindik said:


> Still no option at TiVo.com for current lifetime subscribers or subscribers with ongoing prepaid service to get this box and use MSD.


They have made it clear that you have to buy the box retail to get a non-bundled plan. TiVo.com will only offer bundles, either pre-paid or hardware with 1, 2, or 3-year subscription.


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## rainwater

aindik said:


> Deals appear to be the same combined box/service monthly/prepay options as the old 80 hour box, which were introduced in March, plus a one-time $30 fee to "upgrade" to the DT box.
> 
> Still no option at TiVo.com for current lifetime subscribers or subscribers with ongoing prepaid service to get this box and use MSD.


I don't think there are any plans for that either. For that case, you should buy the box at retail.


----------



## Tivo Basic Mike

aindik said:


> Deals appear to be the same combined box/service monthly/prepay options as the old 80 hour box, which were introduced in March, plus a one-time $30 fee to "upgrade" to the DT box.
> .


What's this upgrade fee about?


----------



## rainwater

Tivo Basic Mike said:


> What's this upgrade fee about?


The box costs more than the regular S2. They wanted to keep the subscription fees the same, so you pay the difference in the costs upfront. Sounds like a good plan to me.


----------



## Rose4uKY

There website says with 1 year plan 224.. Then it mentiones 16.95 with 3 year plan.. And it says 30 dillar upgrade fee what is that? I paid 254 and was told after 1 year would go back to 12.95 and then my 2nd one is 6.95.. Someone on here I thought said it would be 16.95 after 1 year and I called and double checked and they said 12.95.. I guess mineme 254 included the 30 dollar upgrade fee whatever thats for? Rose


----------



## tazzftw

Yep, it does sound good. But I'm interested in how this'll work for the S3. DO they have the same 19.95 plan with a 200-400 upgrade fee?


----------



## tazzftw

And I see they now offer the bundle for the DVD Recorder with a one time fee of $180, so if I had to guess, they will use this method for the S3.


----------



## gwhall57

Got my box yesterday - sweet! I bought the year's TiVo Service with the box .The guided setup was simple using my home network and the ethernet connectiuon. I really like the dual tuner - now we can get our favorite shows competing on the same night and time with no problem.


----------



## gwhall57

Rose4uKY said:


> Wow glad to hear the set up was so easy.. Guess I'll do the same thing unplug my old Series 2 that I am selling and hook up the new DT the same way.. Does cables come with the new one? I need to give my cables to the guy that is buying my old one if they came with my old one.. I just have basic cable back there and don't use those IR things back there but he may need them I hope I can find them.. I am calling Tivo now to find out the status of my order..


The new DT will come with a complete set of cables - even a Cat5 Ethernet cable.


----------



## weaknees

gwhall57 said:


> The new DT will come with a complete set of cables - even a Cat5 Ethernet cable.


Not a CAT 5 cable as far as we know . . .


----------



## tivocat99

livestrong said:


> I placed my order Saturday morning, and I just got an email 15 minutes ago that my new TiVo was shipped on Sunday. Hope that helps you out.


I ordered mine late Friday afternoon with 2-day shipping. I got an e-mail this morning that it actually shipped on Friday and they gave a FedEx tracking number... FedEx.com says it's already on the ground here in Dallas and I will have it tomorrow. So no 1-2 business days "order processing" in my case either. Cool!


----------



## gonzotek

weaknees said:


> Not a CAT 5 cable as far as we know . . .


Yeah, bottom of the TiVo.com DT bundles page it says:


> ** Ethernet cable or compatible USB wireless network adapter required.


----------



## sirfergy

When will local retailers get this in stock?


----------



## weaknees

sirfergy said:


> When will local retailers get this in stock?


Theoretically, starting today. Ours won't be here until tomorrow, according to the freight company.


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## sirfergy

Cool... and because this is a new rebate I should still qualify even if I did the previous rebate?


----------



## jfh3

gwhall57 said:


> The new DT will come with a complete set of cables - even a Cat5 Ethernet cable.


Not according to the setup poster for the DT.


----------



## Tivo Basic Mike

If I buy two of these from CC one will be 12.95 monthly and the next will be 6.95 monthly right?
But If I buy two from Tivo.com they both will be 16.95 a month (lowest)?


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## Rose4uKY

Mine will here tomorrow too... I jusy found a 26 inch HD Sharp LCD flat panel TV that I want now it's 999.. I know the Tivo isn't HD but having a 26 inch flat panel back in my bedroom anf watching some shows in HD will be cool.. And even watching recordings on this new TV instead of my old 20 inch without S Video will be a lot better picture.. Circuit City had an LG one for 999 but I've been told Sharp is better? I don't have a DVD player back in my bedroom so I want a new DVD player that upconverts to HDMI.. And I had to have one that was cable card ready and this is the cheapest one I found.. Then I'll worry about the S3 HD Tivo when it comes out.. But mine will be here tomorrow..


----------



## aindik

Tivo Basic Mike said:


> If I buy two of these from CC one will be 12.95 monthly and the next will be 6.95 monthly right?
> But If I buy two from Tivo.com they both will be 16.95 a month (lowest)?


Yep. But you have to pay for them at CC. The first one will be $99. The second one? I'm not sure how many times you can use the $150 rebate.


----------



## rainwater

aindik said:


> Yep. But you have to pay for them at CC. The first one will be $99. The second one? I'm not sure how many times you can use the $150 rebate.


2 times is the limit.


----------



## greg_burns

Rose4uKY said:


> Mine will here tomorrow too... I jusy found a 26 inch HD Sharp LCD flat panel TV that I want now it's 999.. I know the Tivo isn't HD but having a 26 inch flat panel back in my bedroom anf watching some shows in HD will be cool.. And even watching recordings on this new TV instead of my old 20 inch without S Video will be a lot better picture.. Circuit City had an LG one for 999 but I've been told Sharp is better? I don't have a DVD player back in my bedroom so I want a new DVD player that upconverts to HDMI.. And I had to have one that was cable card ready and this is the cheapest one I found.. Then I'll worry about the S3 HD Tivo when it comes out.. But mine will be here tomorrow..


You could get a 30" HD Widescreen direct-view TVs for that or less. Of course, they are MUCH heavy and bulkier. But bigger is better, right? 

Why would you want a TV that was cable card ready? You wouldn't be able to use an S2 + cable card at the same time. And the S3 will have its own cable card slot(s), so the TV's would go unused. Am I missing something?


----------



## terryfoster

greg_burns said:


> Why would you want a TV that was cable card ready? You wouldn't be able to use an S2 + cable card at the same time. And the S3 will have its own cable card slot(s), so the TV's would go unused. Am I missing something?


Even though I have a dual tuner DVR from TWC, I like having a cable card ready set because it includes a QAM tuner. The QAM tuner allows me to receive any digital signal that is unencrypted. This way I can record two digital channels while watching a third, for example.


----------



## Shawn95GT

Can someone who gets one of these in hand see if you can do sat via the composite/S-video and cable with a box via RF?

Thanks,


----------



## Cboath

gonzotek said:


> Yeah, bottom of the TiVo.com DT bundles page it says:


Do we know if the wireless USB adapter list is updated for this one? None of my newer USB adapters work on my current S2.


----------



## davezatz

terryfoster said:


> Even though I have a dual tuner DVR from TWC, I like having a cable card ready set because it includes a QAM tuner. The QAM tuner allows me to receive any digital signal that is unencrypted. This way I can record two digital channels while watching a third, for example.


You can have a unencrypted QAM tuner without CableCARD... I do.


----------



## ashu

Shawn95GT said:


> Can someone who gets one of these in hand see if you can do sat via the composite/S-video and cable with a box via RF?
> 
> Thanks,


Hmmm ... sounds unlikely. The RF input (coaxial) will not be 'tunable', and I believe this bad boy (the DT) assumes that the RF input be tunable, and the untunable (IR or Serial controleld) source come in over Composite/SVideo with RCA audio.

I may be wrong, however ... anyone care ot confirm?


----------



## Rose4uKY

Wait a minute I am confused here!! I want a cable card ready HD falt panel because I have digital cable in my Living Room and I don't want to use the cable companies HD Box which is also a DVR for 13.99 a month.. When is the S3 coming out? And what do you mean I can't use my S2 with it.. I can't hook the Dual Tuner up to the flat panel LCD!! I know I can't record in HD but I'll still get a better picture then my 20 inch with no S Video.. What is Direct View? It's for my bedroom so I may not need a 30 inch one but if it's cheaper who sells them? 

Also I know that since I have a digital box out in my LR all the channels will come in back in the back with a cable card.. I don't need to record any of the cable card channels cause I can record a digital channel out front on my other Tivo that's hooked up to my digital box.. But I will still be able to record 2 shows on regular cable won't I like the channels 2-99? Now I am confused sorry...


----------



## terryfoster

davezatz said:


> You can have a unencrypted QAM tuner without CableCARD... I do.


The question was "Why would you want a TV that was cable card ready?" A reason to get a TV that is cablecard ready is for its QAM tuner. Sure, you can get a QAM tuner that works independently from a CableCard, but that isn't the point here. The bottom line is the majority (notice I don't say all) of HDTVs that do not have cablecard slots, DO NOT have QAM tuners.


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## gonzotek

Cboath said:


> Do we know if the wireless USB adapter list is updated for this one? None of my newer USB adapters work on my current S2.


Although the software is a slightly different version, I'm betting that the compatibility or lack thereof is the same. The page at tivo.com/adapter has verbiage in it for the DT regarding the fact that it does not need a wired adapted since the port is built-in, so I assume the rest of the page is accurate with respect to wireless adapters and DT.


----------



## Rose4uKY

What is a QAM Tuner? My reasoning for wanting a cable card is I don't want my cable companies HD box cause it's also a DVR and is 13.99 a month.. Tivo said I would still be able to record on the Dual Tuner just not in HD which I know that.. And I may or may not get an S3 when it comes out.. But I'll get to watch some of my prime time shows in HD even though I record most everything.. Is my channels 2-99 going to be considered digital now also with this cable card?


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## terryfoster

Rose4uKY said:


> Wait a minute I am confused here!! I want a cable card ready HD falt panel because I have digital cable in my Living Room and I don't want to use the cable companies HD Box which is also a DVR for 13.99 a month.. When is the S3 coming out? And what do you mean I can't use my S2 with it.. I can't hook the Dual Tuner up to the flat panel LCD!! I know I can't record in HD but I'll still get a better picture then my 20 inch with no S Video.. What is Direct View? It's for my bedroom so I may not need a 30 inch one but if it's cheaper who sells them?
> 
> Also I know that since I have a digital box out in my LR all the channels will come in back in the back with a cable card.. I don't need to record any of the cable card channels cause I can record a digital channel out front on my other Tivo that's hooked up to my digital box.. But I will still be able to record 2 shows on regular cable won't I like the channels 2-99? Now I am confused sorry...


1. The S3 comes out in the second half of 2006
2. You can use the S2 with your new HD flat panel, you just can't record digital stations (but you said that isn't an issue).
3. Direct view is the proper term for a CRT (big, heavy, glass tube) TV.
4. Lots of manufacturers have direct view monitors and TVs.
5. The S2-DT can record one show from a digital STB provided by your cable co and one show from analog cable OR two shows on analog cable (and many other combinations of sources, but these two seem to fit your configuration).


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## Cboath

gonzotek said:


> Although the software is a slightly different version, I'm betting that the compatibility or lack thereof is the same. The page at tivo.com/adapter has verbiage in it for the DT regarding the fact that it does not need a wired adapted since the port is built-in, so I assume the rest of the page is accurate with respect to wireless adapters and DT.


  Oh well. I hope the series 3 has a better compatibility list.


----------



## rainwater

Cboath said:


> Oh well. I hope the series 3 has a better compatibility list.


I wouldn't expect much difference. The issue is the fact that Tivos use Linux and these drivers for wireless chipsets are not generally available from the manufacturer. So getting stable drivers for the current adapters is hard to come by.


----------



## terryfoster

Rose4uKY said:


> What is a QAM Tuner? My reasoning for wanting a cable card is I don't want my cable companies HD box cause it's also a DVR and is 13.99 a month.. Tivo said I would still be able to record on the Dual Tuner just not in HD which I know that.. And I may or may not get an S3 when it comes out.. But I'll get to watch some of my prime time shows in HD even though I record most everything.. Is my channels 2-99 going to be considered digital now also with this cable card?


Let's take a step back and see what we have here. In your bedroom you are going to get a flat panel HDTV with a cable card slot and a S2-DT. The other room you have an unspecified TV and another TiVo connected to a digital STB.

Assuming all is right with the world in the LR, in the bedroom you would like the S2-DT to record two analog cable shows (which you can).

You would also like to watch HDTV without the use of a digital STB from your cable company. If you would like to watch your local stations over cable without a STB, a HDTV with a cable card slot (and corresponding QAM tuner) should be able to decode your local digital stations that are sent over the cable. If you want to watch, let's say, HBO in the bedroom and its a digital channel, you will need to rent a cable card from your cable co.

Simply a QAM tuner decodes the cable's digital transmission system.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Ok thanks for explaining.. So your saying with the cable card and not having a box I won't be able to record digtial with this HD TV which right isn't a problem most of my shows are on regular cable and I can record digital out in my LR.. Tivo tech support said the S3 should be out in a couple months... What's it going to cost? So should I wait get the S3 and use the cable card for that since I don't want to use my cable companies HD DVR box and then I am not limited to a TV with a cable card slot.. I just know I don't want to go over a 1000 bucks... When explaining Direct View is that like a projection TV like my dad just got a Sony Wegs 42 inch.. Or do you mean just like a regular TV like I saw a Toshiba widescreen 32 inch for 5 or 600 bucks.. So now I may need to rething things.. I can put the DT in my living room when the S3 comes out and then put the S3 back in the bedroom with a less expensive HD TV CRT like your saying so I may wait now.. I
Thanks for explaining!! Rose


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## greg_burns

I guess I just missed what you wanted to accomplish. 

If you have the new flat panel connected via cable card you can watch whatever channels you get. You just won't be able to record onto your DT Tivo any digital channels without a STB for it to control. You still have to rent the cable card, why not just rent the STB instead so you can use it with your new DT?

Some people prefer the PQ (picture quality) of a direct view TV. They are cheaper for the same screen size than LCD, but just weigh a ton more.


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## terryfoster

Rose4uKY said:


> Ok thanks for explaining.. So your saying with the cable card and not having a box I won't be able to record digtial with this HD TV which right isn't a problem most of my shows are on regular cable and I can record digital out in my LR.. Tivo tech support said the S3 should be out in a couple months... What's it going to cost? So should I wait get the S3 and use the cable card for that since I don't want to use my cable companies HD DVR box and then I am not limited to a TV with a cable card slot.. I just know I don't want to go over a 1000 bucks... When explaining Direct View is that like a projection TV like my dad just got a Sony Wegs 42 inch.. Thanks for explaining!! Rose


TiVo tech support is kind of wrong. The S3 will be out in the second half of 2006 and we don't know how much it will cost.

Direct View is not a projection TV. Remember the regular old TVs we had before HDTV? That 20" TV you are replacing? That's a direct view TV. But now Direct View TVs can be High Definition too. (EXAMPLE)

As far as waiting for a S3 or getting a HDTV with a cable card slot? That's entirely up to you.


----------



## greg_burns

Rose4uKY said:


> When explaining Direct View is that like a projection TV like my dad just got a Sony Wegs 42 inch.. Or do you mean just like a regular TV like I saw a Toshiba widescreen 32 inch for 5 or 600 bucks..


Like the old fashioned CRT TVs. But think HD & Widescreen. :up:


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## terryfoster

greg_burns said:


> You still have to rent the cable card, why not just rent the STB instead so you can use it will your new DT?


Two reasons:

1. Cablecards are generally cheaper.
2. She has said the STB offered is a HD-DVR which makes life even more confusing.


----------



## greg_burns

terryfoster said:


> 2. She has said the STB offered is a HD-DVR which makes life even more confusing.


My cable co. (comcast) offers an HD STB (Pace DC550P) that is not a DVR. Maybe she has options.


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## terryfoster

greg_burns said:


> My cable co. (comcast) offers an HD STB that is not a DVR. Maybe she has options.


She may, but she didn't say that she did.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Ok If I get this flat panel today yes I would be renting a cable card from my cable Co.. What is STB? The HD Box which is also a DVR which is what I don't want.. My living room already has a digital box and I hava 27 inch TV that fits right into my entertainment center which is a pain to move so I don't want to touch the setup out there unless I really have too which I may have to put the DT out there if I get an S3.. So now if I get a Direct View which is what I kind of want now I can get a 30 inch at a good price I see what you guys are saying.. I can always buy that now just to watch TV on the bigger screen and have it for when the S3 comes out right? And then I would rent the same cable card out from my cable company for 2 bucks a month and still get all my digital channels back there and I wont need there box still.. I'll get to ewatch HD on the TV from the cable card being in the S3 is that right? Cause now I may just get a 30 inch direct view and it's cheaper.. But I also want a DVD that upconverts to HDMI so do I need to look for a TV with 2 HDMI ports on it? Is the series 3 going to hook up to the HDMI slot on the TV? Ok that's all my questions and thanks everyone for your help!! I really appreciate it.. Thanks, Rose


----------



## greg_burns

Rose4uKY said:


> Ok If I get this flat pabnel today yes I would be renting a cable card from my cable Co.. What is STB? The HD Box which is also a DVR which is what I don't want.. My living room already has a digital box and I hava 27 inch TV that fits right into my entertainment center which is a pain to move so I don't want to touch the setup out there unless I really have too which I may have to put the DT out there if I get an S3.. So now if I get a Direct View which is what I kind of want now I can get a 30 inch at a good price I see what you guiys are saying.. I can always buy that now just to watch TV on the bigger screen and have it for when the S3 comes out right? And then I would rent the same cable card out from my cable company for 2 bucks a month and still get all my digital channels back there and I wont need there box still.. I'll get to ewatch HD on the TV from the cable card being in the S3 is that right? Cause now I may just get a 30 inch direct view and it's cheaper.. But I also want a DVD that upconverts to HDMI so do I need to look for a TV with 2 HDMI ports on it? Is the series 3 going to hook up to the HDMI slot on the TV? Ok that's all my questions and thanks everyone for your help!! I really appreciate it.. Thanks, Rose


STB = Set Top Box (ie cable box)

Most of those cheaper Direct View TVs probably don't have ATSC/QAM tuner or cable card slots. None will have _two_ HDMI connectors I bet.

DVD upconverted to HDMI is overrated from what I hear. Just look for a DVD player than has component out and does 480p. We are talking smallish screen sizes here. You will not notice too much gain from upconverted DVDs or possibly HD at small screen sizes. IMO.

Finally, 
HDMI cables cost a small fortune! I bought a Monster DVI->HDMI cable (my STB only has DVI out) the other day as BestBuy for $100 for 4-ft. Returned it and bought and 8-ft Monster on eBay for under $30.


----------



## terryfoster

Rose4uKY said:


> Ok If I get this flat pabnel today yes I would be renting a cable card from my cable Co.. What is STB? The HD Box which is also a DVR which is what I don't want.. ... So now if I get a Direct View which is what I kind of want now I can get a 30 inch at a good price I see what you guiys are saying.. I can always buy that now just to watch TV on the bigger screen and have it for when the S3 comes out right? And then I would rent the same cable card out from my cable company for 2 bucks a month and still get all my digital channels back there and I wont need there box still.. I'll get to ewatch HD on the TV from the cable card being in the S3 is that right? Cause now I may just get a 30 inch direct view and it's cheaper.. But I also want a DVD that upconverts to HDMI so do I need to look for a TV with 2 HDMI ports on it? Is the series 3 going to hook up to the HDMI slot on the TV? Ok that's all my questions and thanks everyone for your help!! I really appreciate it.. Thanks, Rose


STB is a Set Top Box (or cable box)

If you think moving your 27" TV in the LR is a pain, then a 30" Direct View HDTV will be a bigger pain, just FYI.

You don't need two HDMI inputs, but that would be nice. You could run the upconverting DVD player with HDMI and the S3 with component video if you only had one HDMI port.

Now you should read this FAQ I helped author on Upconverting vs. "Classic" DVD players. You may decide that an upconverting DVD player isn't worth the money.


----------



## Einselen

Tivo Basic Mike said:


> If I buy two of these from CC one will be 12.95 monthly and the next will be 6.95 monthly right?
> But If I buy two from Tivo.com they both will be 16.95 a month (lowest)?


Unless you only have lifetime units, buying TiVo for the first time or have pre-packaged units then buying from retail is stupid. TiVo setup their prices on the site so it is better to buy from them directly then retail unless you are the 3 situations I proposed.

Also the lowest monthly would not be 16.95 but actually pre paying for 3 years. Prepaying 3 years is also about $170 cheaper then going retail and paying $12.95/month. Then again you have it for three years were monthly you can break out of the contract anytime after the first year.

In your situation you may want to do a combo of the both, buy one from Tivo.com and get the other from retail. I say this because if you do prepaid anything it is cheaper then retail (even after rebate!) and 12.95 month. You will have to go retail though to get the 6.95 MSD on the S2 DT.

Hope this helps some.


----------



## Rose4uKY

No I dont have an option I have to get the HD box that is a DVR 13.99 verses cable card 2 bucks.. But now my questions is some of these Widescreen 30 inches say comes with QAM Tuner.. Do I need that or if I am eventually going to get the S3 and rent my cable companies cavle card will I have the QAM tuner whatever it is.. Now it's just a matter of if I get the 30 inch how heavy it's going to be getting it in my house.. Thanks Guys, Rose


----------



## terryfoster

greg_burns said:


> Finally,
> HDMI cables cost a small fortune! I bought a Monster DVI->HDMI cable (my STB only has DVI out) the other day as BestBuy for $100 for 4-ft. Returned it and bought and 8-ft Monster on eBay for under $30.


Monster = Waste of money

Just buy cables online. I got my HDMI cable that works like a charm for < $20. I have had great luck with www.svideo.com, YMMV. There are plenty of other outlets to buy HDMI cables (online or otherwise) for less than any Monster branded cable.


----------



## greg_burns

Rose4uKY said:


> No I dont have an option I have to get the HD box that is a DVR 13.99 verses cable card 2 bucks.. But now my questions is some of these Widescreen 30 inches say comes with QAM Tuner.. Do I need that or if I am eventually going to get the S3 and rent my cable companies cavle card will I have the QAM tuner whatever it is.. Now it's just a matter of if I get the 30 inch how heavy it's going to be getting it in my house.. Thanks Guys, Rose


If you get an S3, then no, you won't need any tuner in your TV it _could_ just be a monitor at that point.

I like having QAM tuner in mine currently, cause I have the option to downgrade to basic life-line cable and STILL be able to receive and tune all the HD channels through the cable wire.

If you get one with an ATSC tuner, you can try your luck with tuning OTA (over the air) HD channels as well.

My 30 inch Sony took two of us to move it and it wasn't fun!


----------



## gonzotek

rainwater said:


> I wouldn't expect much difference. The issue is the fact that Tivos use Linux and these drivers for wireless chipsets are not generally available from the manufacturer. So getting stable drivers for the current adapters is hard to come by.


There's always the option to purchase a bridge device (also know as game adapter) for DTs and S3s. That would cost a little bit more, I haven't been able to find one new for less than $70, but I don't eBay or do absolutely exhaustive searching online. But you get reliable wireless that you know won't break or change when TiVo does, G-speeds (or maybe even Pre-N, I don't know if they make them yet), and WPA encryption. And the device could also be hooked up to a cheap switch to provide a few more ports; if you have other equipment in the same location that would use wired networking, you could let them all run into the bridge and thus work wirelessly with the rest of your network.


----------



## terryfoster

I wonder why nobody has suggested the TiVo branded wireless adapter?


----------



## Rose4uKY

Well Best Buy has a Phillips and a Toshiba for 699 and 799 and the 699 Phillips says with Integrated QAM Tuner.. But Best Buy said most Direct Views only have 1 HDMI port but my dad bought a LG DVD player that upconverts to HDMI using component videos.. They say it's the only DVD player that does that.. So I may get the 30 inch now and get the DVD player and then wait for the S3 to come out.. But now the DT needs to go in my LR and not the BR since the S3 will go there. Best Buy said most direct views come with that QAM tuner also... So anyway I have to decide soon cause a friend is waiting on me to help me.. Thanks Rose


----------



## gonzotek

terryfoster said:


> I wonder why nobody has suggested the TiVo branded wireless adapter?


That's an option too. I mentioned the game adapter because it's not an obvious solution, but does work well if you're ok with spending a little more money. On the older (pre-dt) S2s, you had to buy a wired adapter and then a bridge device too, so the value of the solution was less. With a built-in wired port on the s3 and dt, it's 
worth exploring, at the least.


----------



## terryfoster

Rose4uKY said:


> Well Best Buy has a Phillips and a Toshiba for 699 and 799 and the 699 Phillips says with Integrated QAM Tuner.. But Best Buy said most Direct Views only have 1 HDMI port but my dad bought a LG DVD player that upconverts to HDMI using component videos.. They say it's the only DVD player that does that.. So I may get the 30 inch now and get the DVD player and then wait for the S3 to come out.. But now the DT needs to go in my LR and not the BR since the S3 will go there. Best Buy said most direct views come with that QAM tuner also... So anyway I have to decide soon cause a friend is waiting on me to help me.. Thanks Rose


Again, personally, I don't think you'll see an improvement with an upconverting DVD player. If you don't know what the upconverting DVD player does and how it does it, you are probably best off NOT getting one. Really, your new HDTV will do essentially the same thing the upconverting DVD player does. Here's a DVD player at almost half the cost of the upconverting DVD player I believe you are looking at Best Buy Link

You are best off NOT trusting most things a Best Buy store employee tells you. They want a sale and they aren't very knowledgeable.


----------



## Rose4uKY

So I should just get a regular DVD Player? I don't know any of this stuff.. I am going to HH Gregg though now to look at the 26 inch flat panel that is cable card ready and I will also look at the Direct View TV's from Best Buy I have a credit card for them.. But it would be nice to watch a DVD on a 30 inch screen and have a cheap home theater system back there also.. Thanks, Rose


----------



## greg_burns

Rose4uKY said:


> my dad bought a LG DVD player that upconverts to HDMI using component videos.. They say it's the only DVD player that does that..


You sure you he didn't mean a regular Progressive Scan DVD player (outputs 480p)?

I know they are now making HDMI DVD players, but I don't know much about them. And that description sounds odd... "using component cable videos"?

*terry*, I was looking at the link you posted about upconverting DVD players...

Since a DirectView HD is only capable of 1080i natively, what impact (if any) does this have on her DVD player choice?


----------



## terryfoster

Rose4uKY,
You want a DVD player that has a component video connection which that particular Sony model has. It also has a "Progressive Scan" mode which may improve the picture on your new HDTV (try both regular and progressive mode to see which is better). These are really the key features you should look for in a DVD player.


----------



## terryfoster

greg_burns said:


> I know they are now making HDMI DVD players, but I don't know much about them. And that description sounds odd... "using component cable videos"?


I think she's talking about an Upconverting DVD player that can do upconversion over component video rather than HDMI. I have heard one exists and I also believe I heard it was an LG branded DVD player.



greg_burns said:


> *terry*, I was looking at the link you posted about upconverting DVD players...
> 
> Since a DirectView HD is only capable of 1080i natively, what impact (if any) does this have on her DVD player choice?


The 1080i native resolution of the display has little impact on the DVD player choice. The image processor in the display versus the image processor in the DVD player is what's important.

I have found that the image processor is better in my HDTV, even better than the line doubler (progressive scan). I just run my DVD player in 480i mode and let my HDTV do all the work.


----------



## Shawn95GT

greg_burns said:


> You sure you he didn't mean a regular Progressive Scan DVD player (outputs 480p)?
> 
> I know they are now making HDMI DVD players, but I don't know much about them. And that description sounds odd... "using component cable videos"?
> 
> *terry*, I was looking at the link you posted about upconverting DVD players...
> 
> Since a DirectView HD is only capable of 1080i natively, what impact (if any) does this have on her DVD player choice?


I think they meant that it upconverts to *HD* via the component outputs as well as the HDMI.

Many of them only upconvert on the HDMI ouput with the component output being stuck at 480p.


----------



## Tivo Basic Mike

Einselen said:


> Unless you only have lifetime units, buying TiVo for the first time or have pre-packaged units then buying from retail is stupid. TiVo setup their prices on the site so it is better to buy from them directly then retail unless you are the 3 situations I proposed.
> 
> Also the lowest monthly would not be 16.95 but actually pre paying for 3 years. Prepaying 3 years is also about $170 cheaper then going retail and paying $12.95/month. Then again you have it for three years were monthly you can break out of the contract anytime after the first year.
> 
> In your situation you may want to do a combo of the both, buy one from Tivo.com and get the other from retail. I say this because if you do prepaid anything it is cheaper then retail (even after rebate!) and 12.95 month. You will have to go retail though to get the 6.95 MSD on the S2 DT.
> 
> Hope this helps some.


Yes it did Thank you.


----------



## cherry ghost

terryfoster said:


> I think she's talking about an Upconverting DVD player that can do upconversion over component video rather than HDMI. I have heard one exists and I also believe I heard it was an LG branded DVD player.


The LG 511 upconverts via component, but it requires a hack in order to upconvert copy-protected DVDs. There are Samsungs that can upconvert over component, but they also require a hack. IMO, upconversion doesn't do much on a screen that's <50".


----------



## Rose4uKY

Anyway I don't know what my dad got I just remember them selling him the Sony Wega he was going to do the cable card then decided on the DVR HD Box so he uses the HDMI cbale for that and his DVD player upconverts to something using HDMI or compnenet.. But on to me I am not sure If I did the right thing or not but here is what I did..

I went to HH Gregg. and he said he would sell me this 26 inch Sharp marked 13 something for 999 over the phone.. I previously was looking at a 27 inch Toshiba with vuilt in DVD but 1400 was too much for me to spend.. Circuity City had the LG for 999 but everyone I talked to said Sharp was better I don't know.. So here is where I am confused and don't know if I did the right thing or not.. I walk in HH Gregg he shows me the Sharp 999 then I said what kind of deal can you make me on the 27 inch Toshiba with built in DVD. I figured less wires I know not much difference on 26 and 27 inch but he said 1349 and I was like no thats still too high then he said ok 1299 and he told me the warranty was higher on the more expensive one 149 verses 299 for 3 years.. So I call over to Best Buy and they agree to match the 1299 and said there warranty to cover everything for 4 years is 160 which we later found out was not right.. But he said he would try to work me down to 1249 so I was wheeling and dealing back and forth and HH Gregg finally said 1200 but with the warranty and everything it was going to get pricey..

Well Best Buy tried telling me and now I am upset but he said Tivo will not work with an HD TV and your going to get a worse picture on your analog channels now then you did before.. Is that true? I am used to recording now on my 20 inch non S Video and I know I wont be able to record in HD but I can watch the HD night time channels of my local stations.. I'll be watching Desperate Housewives when I am off in real time on HD verses recording but anyway best buy said.. Even if an HD Tivo comes out if you don't have the HD Box from my cable company only have the cable card I wont get direct HD signals or something like that and that it's waste to get an HD TV and use Tivo.. And then he mentioned the S3 he heard may not have a digital card slot that no one knows and that I am better off getting my cable companies DVR which I don't want.. But Tivo will still work and record like before just no HD picture right? I am so confused sorry!! And I apologize for this being so long... I am not used to the best picture now but I watch my shows and delete them.. But he made it sound like it was going to be much worse recording analog channels now on an HD TV..

To finish up I ended up getting the 999 -26 inch sharp with a cable ready card and the manager threw in for free a Toshiba Progressive Scan DVD player and some blue component videos that cost 25 bucks.. The DVD player sold for 59.99.. So with the warranty and everything and I did pay for a 59 dollar power surge so my total was about 1200 and I didn't want to go over a 1000 really but I got 12 months no interest.. So now my last question is should I hook my regular Tivo up to this setup and leave the Dual Tuner one for my TV that has the Digital cable box or if I am only recording basic channels anyway will it matter? With the cable card I can only record 2 analog which is fine.. I should get the cable card in a few days but am going to hook up the TV tomorrow.. It actually might fit in my entertainment slot where my 27 inch TV is so I may move everything out in my LR to the BR and put this HD out here in the LR since I watch more TV out here.. But that is going to be a pain to move everything my old DVD player my Digital cable box it's all going to be a pain to take apart and rehook back up and my dual tuner will be here tomorrow... Thanks Everyone Rose


----------



## greg_burns

Rose4uKY said:


> Well Best Buy tried telling me and now I am upset but he said Tivo will not work with an HD TV and your going to get a worse picture on your analog channels now then you did before.. Is that true?


BestBuy drones. 

The only issue you may notice is the resolution of your new TV will be so much better now it can bring out the currently masked flaws in your Tivo's picture. Same thing happens when you copy shows to your computer where the monitor has higher resolution than your old TV screen. At time it seems "smeary" to me. Nothing major. Cartoons (which are naturally low detail) are amazing looking. My 5 year old loves it. Not that he give a hoot about PQ. 

Again, we are talking smallish HD screen sizes here; 26", 30", etc. Where you really start to have problems is with big screens. That really magnifies the problems.

The bigger issue is that you now how a widescreen TV. You need to choose whether to watch 4x3 shows in proper ratio or strech them to fill the screen. Stretching can cause "smeariness" as well, IMO.

I know you said your are not getting an STB, but if you did you _*can*_ actually record the HD channels on your Tivo in proper 16x9 ratio. They won't be HD, but it will be the best picture you'll ever see from a Tivo. :up:


----------



## greg_burns

Rose4uKY said:


> And then he mentioned the S3 he heard may not have a digital card slot that no one knows and that I am better off getting my cable companies DVR which I don't want..


That doesn't even deserve a response.


----------



## Rose4uKY

Well everyone told me different things HH Gregg said one Best Buy said another I don't know anything about any of this HD stuff it's all new to me.. I just liked the flat panel LCD over a big heavy TV and I thought I got a good deal on it since he threw in the DVD player and the cables.. But I also called Tivo and they said they had no info on the S3 and there tech support said they know nothing also and cant tell me a 100% for sure it will have the Cable Card slot on the S3 or not they don't have any info tech support and customer services both told me the same thing.. I don't know but I chose the TV with the Cable Card slot.. I know I can't record in HD but since I only got the 26 inch and you said it wont be much difference recording and watching a regular program since I only got the 26 inch...... You said something about now I have a widescreen and need to adjust the ratios and that with a STB box I can record at proper ratios? Can I have my cable companies DVR just for that and to redord my HD shows only and still use Tivo also and use both? That would be silly but I want Tivo I love it.. My mom and dads 60 hour box only records 10 hours in HD. I am not so sure i bought the right thing now.. But what is the proper ratio I want to watch in since this is a 26 inch? And how bad will it be stretching the 4:3 to fit screen like you said real bad? Sorry for not knowing alot of this.. Thanks, Rose


----------



## chain777

You *really* need to start a new thread.


----------



## classicsat

rainwater said:


> I wouldn't expect much difference. The issue is the fact that Tivos use Linux and these drivers for wireless chipsets are not generally available from the manufacturer. So getting stable drivers for the current adapters is hard to come by.


More particularily they use a non PC/X86 Linux, so there is absolutely no way to make PC (or Mac) Windows drivers work.


----------



## dmk1974

Anyone spot these at local stores yet?


----------



## Einselen

dmk1974 said:


> Anyone spot these at local stores yet?


The TiVO wireless adapter? My local CompUSA has it available for pick up.

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=338694&pfp=BROWSE


----------



## dmk1974

Einselen said:


> The TiVO wireless adapter? My local CompUSA has it available for pick up.
> 
> http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=338694&pfp=BROWSE


No, the DT units. I'm trying to get the thread back on track


----------



## TiVoPony

dmk1974 said:


> No, the DT units. I'm trying to get the thread back on track


The new DT unit? Are we discussing those here? 

I've heard that the release date for the Series3 is hidden away in the DT as an easter egg. And that the more DT's you have on your home network, the more likely you'll find the easter egg.

Seriously!



Or not?



Pony


----------



## dmk1974

TiVoPony said:


> The new DT unit? Are we discussing those here?
> 
> I've heard that the release date for the Series3 is hidden away in the DT as an easter egg. And that the more DT's you have on your home network, the more likely you'll find the easter egg.
> 
> Seriously!
> 
> 
> 
> Or not?
> 
> 
> 
> Pony


Way to fuel the fire Pony!


----------



## Einselen

TiVoPony said:


> The new DT unit? Are we discussing those here?
> 
> I've heard that the release date for the Series3 is hidden away in the DT as an easter egg. And that the more DT's you have on your home network, the more likely you'll find the easter egg.
> 
> Seriously!
> 
> 
> 
> Or not?
> 
> 
> 
> Pony


Pony just sold me! Out to buy multiple DT units and hook them all up. I will then sell the release date on eBay. I shall be rich! Rich I tell you!


----------



## mgar

If the series 3 isn't released on July 1st, I am giving up TiVo ... well, not really 

I plan to stick with my digital cable, and the Series 3 will be ideal, especially when I make the jump to HD late this year or early next year.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

TiVoPony said:


> The new DT unit? Are we discussing those here?
> 
> I've heard that the release date for the Series3 is hidden away in the DT as an easter egg. And that the more DT's you have on your home network, the more likely you'll find the easter egg.
> 
> Seriously!
> 
> 
> 
> Or not?
> 
> 
> 
> Pony


I thought you had to have at least one bundled price Single tuner on the network to unlock the egg from the DT units while playing Pony Poker


----------



## ChuckyBox

TiVoPony said:


> I've heard that the release date for the Series3 is hidden away in the DT as an easter egg. And that the more DT's you have on your home network, the more likely you'll find the easter egg.


Maybe if you actually sold them in... oh, let's just call them "stores," somebody could buy enough to find out. Or even one.


----------



## Brainiac 5

They show up now on Best Buy's web site, whereas when I looked yesterday they didn't. Of course they're listed as "unavailable" at all the Best Buy locations I tried.

That's at least a little progress, though...


----------



## ChuckyBox

Brainiac 5 said:


> They show up now on Best Buy's web site, whereas when I looked yesterday they didn't. Of course they're listed as "unavailable" at all the Best Buy locations I tried.


I think we have enough evidence now to declare this a big conspiracy. The DT boxes don't really exist. They're vaporware, and TiVo is up to some giant scheme. Probably a stock swindle or something. Notice how they posted an 8-K yesterday about renewing their lease -- "Oh, yeah, sure, we're going to be around for years and years..." I bet they're packing up the office as we speak. And Pony, showing up, trying to urge us to send in our money and buy these things that don't exist. I'll bet TiVo started that thread about how people are actually getting the product delivered, and they're using their carefully cultivated moles to make it seem legit. And how about that whole product lifetime service ending thing? Oh, you'd better hurry up and send us your $300 before lifetime service isn't available any more. Oh, wait, we've extended it a month so you can still get in. Now that we've all paid up, they're skipping town. But not before they sell us this mysterious DT product that nobody ever heard of before.

It's a conspiracy, I tell you, a conspiracy.

Edit: In case anyone is wondering, yes, I'm declaring shenanigans.


----------



## 1283

ChuckyBox, either you're trying to be funny/scarcastic, or you really don't know what you're talking about. People have already received bundled DT units from TiVo, and Circuit City has already shipped non-bundled units.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

c3 said:


> ChuckyBox, either you're trying to be funny/scarcastic, or you really don't know what you're talking about. People have already received bundled DT units from TiVo, and Circuit City has already shipped non-bundled units.


He was being funny


----------



## Rose4uKY

I got my DT today it's all set up.. But since I ordered from Tivo they messed up and put this Tivo on a seperate account then my other two.. I sold one of my two for this new DT and Tivo said it showed up as my 2 Tivos one one account and the new one on another.. So now they deleted my one Tivo that I sold and he said it would be 2 days before they merge together.. So I can't transfer to this new one yet... My new 26 inch flat panel TV is hooked up to plus my DVD player.. I have a whole new setup in my bedroom it's cool.. Is the S3 HD Tivo going to be a dual one also? But I think someone else mentioned this I don't have the recently deleted folder where you can recover something if you delete it by accident.. But I just went to the guide and hit record on 2 shows and they were both recording in my Tivo list so that's cool..


----------



## jfh3

TiVoPony said:


> The new DT unit? Are we discussing those here?
> 
> I've heard that the release date for the Series3 is hidden away in the DT as an easter egg. And that the more DT's you have on your home network, the more likely you'll find the easter egg.
> 
> Seriously!
> 
> 
> 
> Or not?
> 
> 
> 
> Pony


If true, how about increasing the number of DT's eligible for the rebate? 

Wasn't going to buy a DT, because I'm not sure what I'd do with it after the Series 3 is out ... buy maybe I'll buy one to play with. Or pull the hard drive and go at it with a hex editor.


----------



## ChuckyBox

c3 said:


> People have already received bundled DT units from TiVo...


TiVoBots. They'll vanish just like the rest of TiVo.


----------



## Gospel

I got my S2DT today. TiVo seems to have properly added the S2DT to my account. Don't have it hooked up yet. I'm wating for the Weakness 290 hour upgrade kit to come in tomorrow (Wednesday).

Enjoy life!
Steven


----------



## Rose4uKY

Mine came to but they messed up and didn't add it to my account they made another account out of it.. So I called tonight and had my one Tivo account cancelled cause I sold one to get this DT and they said it would take a couple days for the accounts to merge so for now I can't transfer my shows.. I wanted to transfer and watch back here in the bedroom on my new flat panel TV but I'll have to wait.. But I like the dual tuner Tivo and after selling mine this one didn't cost me anything except paying for a year up front. 

Rose


----------



## tivocat99

I got mine yesterday morning... won't have time to hook it up for a couple of days though. Mine was showing properly in "manage my account" online as added to my existing account before I even received the unit.


----------



## Rose4uKY

I want my straightened out the Tivo back there I sold I transferred 9 episodes of one show to my desktop and 15 of this other and then 6 others to my other Tivo out front... It was slow since I was doing 2 from the one Tivo to differen't places.. But now that I got this new TV back in the BR I want to put the stuff back on there and watch it back there.. I had so much on there I watch to much and never stay caught up.. I wanted it emptied for my neighbor for when he bought it.. Is the new DT going to have the folder where when you delete is goes to that folder and you can recoverif needed? Rose


----------



## TivoZorro

tivocat99 said:


> I got mine yesterday morning... won't have time to hook it up for a couple of days though. Mine was showing properly in "manage my account" online as added to my existing account before I even received the unit.


I haven't even received my Tivo yet. It will get here tomorrow. It is showing up properly in "manage my account" online as added to my existing account like yours. It shows the Payment Plan as The Tivo Package, 1 Year Prepay, Account in Good Standing and Transfers Allowed. I bought mine from tivo.com.


----------



## TivoZorro

Rose4uKY said:


> I want my straightened out the Tivo back there I sold I transferred 9 episodes of one show to my desktop and 15 of this other and then 6 others to my other Tivo out front... It was slow since I was doing 2 from the one Tivo to differen't places.. But now that I got this new TV back in the BR I want to put the stuff back on there and watch it back there.. I had so much on there I watch to much and never stay caught up.. I wanted it emptied for my neighbor for when he bought it.. Is the new DT going to have the folder where when you delete is goes to that folder and you can recoverif needed? Rose


According to what I have read earlier in this thread the new DT does not have the undelete folder. I will have to be careful about this because I've gotten used to having it there and recovering some shows when needed.


----------



## jfh3

TivoZorro said:


> According to what I have read earlier in this thread the new DT does not have the undelete folder.


Does not have undelete YET.

Since the DT was in the channel and ready to go before the undelete feature was released, it's a safe bet that the base code levels just haven't caught up yet.

I suspect DT users will eventually see undelete and probably sooner, rather than later.


----------



## Dan203

That new KidZone thing is supose to be released in July. I bet that's the release that puts all units on the same code base and gives the DT units Recently Deleted. 

Dan


----------



## davezatz

Dan203 said:


> That new KidZone thing is supose to be released in July. I bet that's the release that puts all units on the same code base and gives the DT units Recently Deleted.


As long as we're consolidating and standardizing, let's also release those S3 units in July.


----------



## Dan203

Highly unlikely!

Dan


----------



## davezatz

Dan203 said:


> Highly unlikely!


You've just increased our odds of a July release by saying that.


----------



## Dan203

Lets hope so. 

Dan


----------



## jlb

davezatz said:


> You've just increased our odds of a July release by saying that.


Well, the other day I called TiVO Support to provide them additional information related to the MA phone numbers I was having. I was transferred to a supervisor to provide my information. Not that I take any faith in what the person said, but when I asked about "that release date for the S3", he said Summer. now, granted, that could be a 3 month window, but is certainly earlier than "end of the year".

Now, depending on price, I might still have to wait and see what happens, if anything, with the ComcasTiVo.


----------



## Puppy76

I'm just hoping it's out before the fall TV season starts. That would be ideal, really for TiVo too.


----------



## MichaelK

jlb said:


> Well, the other day I called TiVO Support to provide them additional information related to the MA phone numbers I was having. I was transferred to a supervisor to provide my information. Not that I take any faith in what the person said, but when I asked about "that release date for the S3", he said Summer. now, granted, that could be a 3 month window, but is certainly earlier than "end of the year".
> 
> Now, depending on price, I might still have to wait and see what happens, if anything, with the ComcasTiVo.


Well I think the party line is second half of the year so hopefully summer is correct as oposed to 'end of the year' educated speculation. If they can pull it off before fall tv season starts Id be quite happy.


----------



## StStephen

Just got a call from my wife, our new DT box was just delivered! Ordered last Friday, shipped ground, all-in-all and outstanding shopping experience with TiVo. Now hopefully the thing will work!

Steve  :up:


----------



## BlackBetty

StStephen said:


> Now hopefully the thing will work!
> 
> Steve  :up:


Of course it will....its a TiVo!


----------



## Rose4uKY

I love the new DT enjoy!! Rose


----------



## TivoZorro

I got my DT today. And I can't get beyond the screen where it asks if I can see video in the background. All I see is black and if I skip that step it says that it will only record on one channel. i've tried it on two different tvs with the same results. Does anybody have any ideas?


----------



## dmk1974

TivoZorro said:


> I got my DT today. And I can't get beyond the screen where it asks if I can see video in the background. All I see is black and if I skip that step it says that it will only record on one channel. i've tried it on two different tvs with the same results. Does anybody have any ideas?


Do you have sound?

Also, double check that you don't have the cable to your TV connecte to TiVo's VIDEO IN by accident.


----------



## ChuckyBox

TivoZorro said:


> Does anybody have any ideas?


My idea is for you to describe your setup so we have somewhere to start.


----------



## 1283

TivoZorro said:


> I got my DT today. And I can't get beyond the screen where it asks if I can see video in the background. All I see is black and if I skip that step it says that it will only record on one channel. i've tried it on two different tvs with the same results. Does anybody have any ideas?


I have seen that behavior with my 540. If I answer "yes, I see the video" anyway, TiVo still works fine after the guided setup. That's definitely a bug with the 7.x software.


----------



## TivoZorro

c3 said:


> I have seen that behavior with my 540. If I answer "yes, I see the video" anyway, TiVo still works fine after the guided setup. That's definitely a bug with the 7.x software.


Thanks I willl try hooking it up again. My setup is basic cable, no cable box. RF cable in from the wall to the Tivo. Red, white and yellow cables out from the Tivo to the tv.


----------



## ChuckyBox

TivoZorro said:


> Thanks I willl try hooking it up again. My setup is basic cable, no cable box. RF cable in from the wall to the Tivo. Red, white and yellow cables out from the Tivo to the tv.


Thanks. Try cf3's solution and let us know. If you go to "Live TV" do you get a picture or sound? What happens when you change the channel? Push "Live TV" again (will switch tuners) and try again.


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## TivoZorro

ChuckyBox said:


> Thanks. Try cf3's solution and let us know. If you go to "Live TV" do you get a picture or sound? What happens when you change the channel? Push "Live TV" again (will switch tuners) and try again.


Yes, it was exactly as cf3 said. I answered yes to seeing the video even though it wasn't true. And when it finished with Guided Setup I had video. At first when I hit LiveTV it showed the same channel as on the first tuner. But then I punched in another channel and at the bottom it said something about Tivo searching for basic cable and then it tuned it in. And I'm happy to report it is recording both the NBC and CBS Nightly News. Had to run a test to see if it works! I can't wait to get all of my Season Passes in it. And network is up and working fine. Tivo Desktop recognizes it. Back to setting up Season Passes!


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## ChuckyBox

TivoZorro said:


> And I'm happy to report it is recording both the NBC and CBS Nightly News. Had to run a test to see if it works! I can't wait to get all of my Season Passes in it. And network is up and working fine. Tivo Desktop recognizes it. Back to setting up Season Passes!


Cool. Some people are reporting a non-specified increase in speed. Let us know if you notice anything.

Enjoy.


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## 1283

I'm glad that it works. However, many consumers would probably return the unit as defective. TiVo, you'd better do something about this.


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## tivocat99

As an update to how billing plays out: As I said upthread, they correctly added my DT order to my existing account before I even received the unit. Well, billing for my existing unit hit today, and it was at the correct multi-unit discount rate. 

All in all a painless transaction getting the DT TiVo. Still don't have it hooked up but hope to have time to do so tomorrow night. Looking forward to being able to download my provider/channel info wirelessly! Setup on my first two S2's was a PITA since I have no landline phone... had to do it at work on the sly.


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## greg_burns

c3 said:


> I'm glad that it works. However, many consumers would probably return the unit as defective. TiVo, you'd better do something about this.


When I reran GS last week when I switched from satellite to cable I had the same situation. No video. I got frustrated and said yes anyways, and then it was working. 

I think you might be right about there being a bug there...


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## jfh3

greg_burns said:


> When I reran GS last week when I switched from satellite to cable I had the same situation. No video. I got frustrated and said yes anyways, and then it was working.
> 
> I think you might be right about there being a bug there...


Hope you folks that are seeing this are calling Tivo and reporting it.


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## greg_burns

jfh3 said:


> Hope you folks that are seeing this are calling Tivo and reporting it.


Sorry, not my job.

Edit: OK, that came across badly.  I reported it here, isn't that enough? Can't imagine dealing with CS over an issue that I'm already past myself.


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## jfh3

greg_burns said:


> Sorry, not my job.
> 
> Edit: OK, that came across badly.  I reported it here, isn't that enough? Can't imagine dealing with CS over an issuing that I already past myself.


This isn't an official forum, even though there are a number of Tivo employees here.

If you are a Tivo fan and have personal experience with what is clearly a bug, why not take a few minutes to report the problem? 

Especially one that could potentially result in a bad OOB experience for new Tivo users.


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## greg_burns

jfh3 said:


> This isn't an official forum, even though there are a number of Tivo employees here.
> 
> If you are a Tivo fan and have personal experience with what is clearly a bug, why not take a few minutes to report the problem?
> 
> Especially one that could potentially result in a bad OOB experience for new Tivo users.


Personally, I think posting here would have more impact and visibilty than reporting it to CS.

Take a look at the reboot issue. TivoJerry was all over that just from reportings in this forum AFAIK.

At the time I just assumed I was doing something wrong. And for all I know, maybe I was. I personally think this forum (or maybe even the official one) is a better suited for determining if this is really an issue or not. (IMO)


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## 1283

I think that blank screen problem would need a separate thread to bring it to TiVo's attention. I agree with Greg that this forum should have more impact than calling a CSR.


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## rainwater

Isn't the issue that it picks the first channel in your lineup to show you? When I ran it today on my new DT, it showed a channel that I don't receive even though its in my lineup. Since you haven't had a chance to edit your lineup, there's nothing you can do there. I also think the question is stupid since it just showed you a random channel to confirm.


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## tazzftw

Doesn't that include an option to try a different channel?


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## Gospel

c3 said:


> I think that blank screen problem would need a separate thread to bring it to TiVo's attention. I agree with Greg that this forum should have more impact than calling a CSR.


Ditto, this problem should be in a separate threand *and* in the TiVo Help forum, not in the TiVo Coffee House.

BTW, I don't like the taste of coffee. Can I get a Dr. Pepper here, instead?

Thanks!
Steven


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## rainwater

tazzftw said:


> Doesn't that include an option to try a different channel?


The first time it shows a channel you are given that option. But there is another question about seeing the video and I don't believe it offers an option to try a different channel. Again, I'm not sure of the point of the 2 different questions.


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## memn0ch

I've just placed my order for the DT Tivo because the Comcast Moto DVR sucks and I miss tivo thinking for me. My concern is that my archaic cable system which still uses A/B outlets going into a single digital cable box is going to cause some problems with the dual tuner.

Also I'm really curious how the logic will work. If I have a season pass for an analog available show, will it always try to use the analog tuner thus allowing me to switch the digital capable one to a digital channel?


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## StStephen

I brought my new DT to work so I could stroke it while I waited for UPS to deliver my Weaknees 180 hour upgrade drive. My new drive arrived as promised and installed without a hitch, tonight I plug this puppy in!

Steve


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## tazzftw

I indeed ordered it today. $250 - $150 rebate - $25 Gift Card - $10 Earned in Rewards = $65 ending cost.


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## Gospel

I see from the help center, many folks are having problems with the 7.2.2 upgrade on the S2 singer tuner boxes. Well, I am having the same random reboot problem with 7.2.5 on my new S2DT. This is happening with the stock 80 hour drive and the 290 hour weaknwess replacement drive. I've added my comments to the reboo thread and PM'ed TiVoJerry. It may go 10 hours or just one hour between reboots. I am trying to find another S2DT owner having the same problem.

Thanks,
Steven


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## weaknees

Gospel said:


> I see from the help center, many folks are having problems with the 7.2.2 upgrade on the S2 singer tuner boxes. Well, I am having the same random reboot problem with 7.2.5 on my new S2DT. This is happening with the stock 80 hour drive and the 290 hour weaknwess replacement drive. I've added my comments to the reboo thread and PM'ed TiVoJerry. It may go 10 hours or just one hour between reboots. I am trying to find another S2DT owner having the same problem.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steven


Do you have the unit on a UPS? These are pretty sensitive to power fluctuations. We have more info here:

http://www.wkblog.com/ups

The number one cause of spontaneous reboots is a bad drive, but considering you have two drives behaving similarly, that seems pretty unlikley. Power problems are the next most likely culprit.


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## Gospel

weaknees said:


> Do you have the unit on a UPS? These are pretty sensitive to power fluctuations. We have more info here:
> 
> http://www.wkblog.com/ups
> 
> The number one cause of spontaneous reboots is a bad drive, but considering you have two drives behaving similarly, that seems pretty unlikley. Power problems are the next most likely culprit.


Oh yes, I have a UPS. I have two APC model that can keep a PC going for 10 minutes. IMO, a UPS is a must have. BTW, I did do a mfscheck (GSOD) code. Thought things were going good for a few hours because it recorded 4 shows until another reset at the start of recording a fith show.

I don't think the problem is with the replacement drive since it is also happening to the stock drive as well. I'm just tired of swapping drives now trying to figure this out. I also didn't touch any ohter components and was carefull about static discharge.

I've also tried "Clear & Delete everything" and started fresh.

Thanks,
Steven


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## Gospel

Last night, my S2DT was updated to 7.2.5a. So far so good. No reboots in 12 hours. I've recorded a few shows already. So far, so good.

Enjoy life!
Steven


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## Puppy76

Hope that fixes thing! Note that rebooting is NOT a problem with 7.2.2 on the regular S2 units unless there's a hardware problem.

I wonder if a UPS would even be safe if it's not grounded...?


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## ebf

Puppy76 said:


> Hope that fixes thing! Note that rebooting is NOT a problem with 7.2.2 on the regular S2 units unless there's a hardware problem.
> 
> I wonder if a UPS would even be safe if it's not grounded...?


Have you seen this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4006561? Some people *are* having problems with 7.2.2 and TiVo knows about it.


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## Puppy76

That sounds like people with failing drives who want to blame the update or Tivo.

I love the guy who "wants to blame the hard drive dying on the reboots".

Umm, yeah, it couldn't possibly be the other way around! LOL!


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## Test

question, got one of these at CC on saturday and while i was setting it up i saw on the cardboard insert that bag B showed an R.F. splitter.......mine didnt have one........is that suppose to be included? 

also, i have a digital cable box, so i needed the RF splitter to split the line from the wall into two new lines, one going to the coax on tivo and the other to coax on the cable box (then av output of box to av input on tivo)...if i just wanted basic cable with no box, the one line from the wall into the tivo would have been enough to get two channels recorded at once?


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## ZeoTiVo

Test said:


> question, got one of these at CC on saturday and while i was setting it up i saw on the cardboard insert that bag B showed an R.F. splitter.......mine didnt have one........is that suppose to be included?
> 
> also, i have a digital cable box, so i needed the RF splitter to split the line from the wall into two new lines, one going to the coax on tivo and the other to coax on the cable box (then av output of box to av input on tivo)...if i just wanted basic cable with no box, the one line from the wall into the tivo would have been enough to get two channels recorded at once?


no idea on what should be in the box.

If you put a coax cable to the DT then it will record two analog channels (basic cable) no problem


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## JoeBarbs

Test said:


> question, got one of these at CC on saturday and while i was setting it up i saw on the cardboard insert that bag B showed an R.F. splitter.......mine didnt have one........is that suppose to be included?
> 
> also, i have a digital cable box, so i needed the RF splitter to split the line from the wall into two new lines, one going to the coax on tivo and the other to coax on the cable box (then av output of box to av input on tivo)...if i just wanted basic cable with no box, the one line from the wall into the tivo would have been enough to get two channels recorded at once?


My unit arrived from Amazon over the weekend and it included a small 2 way (one in and 2 out) splitter. To be used by I assumed for the folks that have cable boxes. I just have basic cable without box so no need for it for me.


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## Test

JoeBarbs said:


> My unit arrived from Amazon over the weekend and it included a small 2 way (one in and 2 out) splitter. To be used by I assumed for the folks that have cable boxes. I just have basic cable without box so no need for it for me.


maaaaaaaaaaan i knew i was missing something...i saw it marked as being in bag b but didnt find it in the box, so i blew it off thinking it was telling me i needed it...oh well

thanks for the fr


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## Shawn95GT

Puppy76 said:


> Hope that fixes thing! Note that rebooting is NOT a problem with 7.2.2 on the regular S2 units unless there's a hardware problem.


That's a pretty broad statement and I half agree.

I got 7.2.2 and all three SA S2 Tivos started rebooting randomly. It seemed the more active the Tivo was the more they rebooted.

7.2.2b came along, now the rebooting has stopped.

We never heard what the fix was so it's hard to say if it was something with the particular network adaptor, features, or whatever that was causing it. All I know is I haven't seen reboots since the 7.2.2b upgrade.


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## rainwater

Test said:


> maaaaaaaaaaan i knew i was missing something...i saw it marked as being in bag b but didnt find it in the box, so i blew it off thinking it was telling me i needed it...oh well
> 
> thanks for the fr


Yes, I got one in my box as well, so I would assume that yours should have included one. Maybe you can pester CC into giving you a retail splitter or they can jack one from an open box? Obviously you aren't going to return a box just to get a splitter.


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## megazone

Puppy76 said:


> That sounds like people with failing drives who want to blame the update or Tivo.


There was/is a reboot bug in 7.2.2 - the new 7.2.2b release is believed to fix it.


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## dmk1974

I can't find the answer to this. If I skipped over it, please someone point me to the answer.

With the DT box, if I hook it up to my coax as well as my HD cable box (I know, it's not a true HD recording, but it still looks cleaner than my normal coax), does the DT box work kinda like a Triple-Tuner? I only get HD channels 187-192 on my HD box since I don't have the more expensive digital cable. On analog, I get 2-99.

For example, if I set up the DT TiVo with the Comcast HD box and want to record channels 34 and 187, this wouldn't be a problem since 34 is from analog and 187 from the cable box. However, if I wanted to record 34 and 40 (both analog), will the DT TiVo do it? Like, if I pick two analog channels, will it perform as if the cable box wasn't even connected?

Thanks!


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## aindik

dmk1974 said:


> I can't find the answer to this. If I skipped over it, please someone point me to the answer.
> 
> With the DT box, if I hook it up to my coax as well as my HD cable box (I know, it's not a true HD recording, but it still looks cleaner than my normal coax), does the DT box work kinda like a Triple-Tuner? I only get HD channels 187-192 on my HD box since I don't have the more expensive digital cable. On analog, I get 2-99.
> 
> For example, if I set up the DT TiVo with the Comcast HD box and want to record channels 34 and 187, this wouldn't be a problem since 34 is from analog and 187 from the cable box. However, if I wanted to record 34 and 40 (both analog), will the DT TiVo do it? Like, if I pick two analog channels, will it perform as if the cable box wasn't even connected?
> 
> Thanks!


It will only record two shows at once, not three. But, those two shows can both be from the analog coax feed.


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## dmk1974

aindik said:


> It will only record two shows at once, not three. But, those two shows can both be from the analog coax feed.


Thanks. That exactly answers my question. I just wasn't sure if the cable box forced one of the two tuners to it.


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## TiVoJerry

TivoZorro
Originally Posted by TivoZorro
I got my DT today. And I can't get beyond the screen where it asks if I can see video in the background. All I see is black and if I skip that step it says that it will only record on one channel. i've tried it on two different tvs with the same results. Does anybody have any ideas? [/QUOTE said:


> c3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen that behavior with my 540. If I answer "yes, I see the video" anyway, TiVo still works fine after the guided setup. That's definitely a bug with the 7.x software.
> 
> 
> 
> We've heard sporadic reports of this even before the DT, as noted by c3, yet are unable to duplicate on command in the lab. If anyone reading here is able to reproduce regularly, please send me a PM with your 15-digit TSN and I will enable logging to see if we can capture any information.
> 
> Before reporting this, please make sure to leave this screen up for a minute to make sure video doesn't ultimately display.
> 
> Thank you.
Click to expand...


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## jetixo

Hi all, just got a series2 DT and everything setup is okay. The recorded program from tv to pc is working and I'm able to play on. I Need to do online scheduling and followed the instruction properly but fail. The message < Sorry, but we encountered an error while processing your request. Please try again later > 
Is anybody ever had the same problem? Should I wait and try it later?! Thank you.


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## weaknees

Where do you get that message - onscreen or on the internet? Have you tried just rebooting the TiVo?


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## jetixo

I got that on internet. I haven't rebooting the tivo. I'll do it and hope it's going to work. Thank you.


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## weaknees

OK - try that and tell us what you find. You might also need to force a full connection to TiVo from the DVR so that tivo.com can upload your channel configuration.


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## jetixo

Sorry, I don't understand by "...connection to TiVo from the DVR..." I only have S2DT DVR is connected to digital cable box. Thxs


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## weaknees

The unit connects to TiVo for its guide data, and also to get updates from the online scheduling website. You either have it connected by phone or broadband. So ask the TiVo to make a connection while you're watching. It's in Messages and Setup -> Settings -> Phone and Network I think.


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## jetixo

I just got replied from tivo tech. support and they just found the problem that insn't on the connection. Before I did onl-scheduling, I added another an email add. (duplicate) on manage my account. Tivo didn't recognize it and tivo needed me to verify 15 digits of tivo serial. Now it's working. Thank you for you reply and concern.


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