# Burn in Heck CBS (football over-run rants)



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

It used to be that my rage was reserved primarily for FOX, but CBS seems to be the last remaining hold-out for not having the brains to adequately pad out their Sunday nite schedule such that football over-runs wouldn't disaffect DVR/PVR users.

FOX's old approach -- joining shows in progress -- sucked horribly and I was glad to see them end that approach this year. FOX got smart this year/season and just blocked off the 7pm - 8pm hour for "The OT" their extended football coverage. If games run long they can pad out the time with a nice wrap up show that covers the events of the day, injuries of note, highlights and looks ahead, etc.

CBS, on the other hand, insists on scheduling the long-ago-should-have-been-retired 60 Minutes to start promptly at 7pm but if it can't, then they run it in it's entireity starting whenever football ends and then push their schedule back by 5, 10, 15, 23, or however many minutes were necessary. Ugh.

So, kudos to FOX for getting this one right, and BURN IN HECK CBS for fouling up their scheduling and not being more intelligent with their scheduling.

They should either join 60 minutes already in progress if they insist on not moving it from it's precious 7pm (east coast) time slot, or move the darned show to 8pm, and push the rest of the programming on the night to an hour later.

I suppose that the powers that be at CBS will possibly wind up moving Amazing Race to a different night, and if so, perhaps I can go back to not caring at all about any football over-runs they have on Sundays, but I would hope that someone within their organization would engage their brains and fix the issue in a manner similar to the way FOX has.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

They really should just pswitch to the program at its scheduled time; if the sports leagues can't figure out how to finish a game in a timely manner, they should pay the price.

Now back to the real world...

At the very least they could use digital subchannels to their advantage; create a subchannel that will always have regularly scheduled programming; normally this'd just be the normal channel remapped so when it was in HD the subchannel would be HD, too, et. al. But when there was something else causing the regular schedule to be delayed, have the subchannel continue the regular programming, just in SD (unless the other programming didn't need HD either).

DVR people could schedule everything through the special subchannel; live viewers could choose which channel to watch; game viewers could still get the whole game followed by time-delayed regular programming.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

We didn't have any delay here, which is odd. I even padded for it, for once.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I'm confused. 
My Amazing Race started on time last night. Did I luck out because whatever football game I had in my market ended on time?


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

So I take it if I didn't pad The Amazing Race last night, I missed part of the episode? I'm pretty anti-pad, but I may have to add an extra half hour to TAR season pass. I was very nervous when CBS scheduled TAR on sundays for this reason.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

My wife told me that she got complete recordings for Cold Case and Without a Trace. Neither had padding.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I pad Cold Case for an hour, but it did start on time in the NYC market.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

WUSA (CBS) Ch. 9 (Digital, 9-1) over the air in D.C. definitely started TAR at approximately 8:12, and didn't end it until approximately 9:12 (east coast time).

Of course folks on the left coast don't have the problem at all as their programming has the extra 3 hours during which things can adjusted on the schedule before west coast prime time kicks in.

I can't say for sure if you missed the end of the show skaeight, but I'd be leery of it all being there.

For the most part TAR is a "watch it live" show for my family so we wouldn't normally miss it, but with the football season in full season and with over-runs in the early part of the season, CBS seems to be doing everything possible to make me opt to kill the season pass and just give up watching the show at all.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Don't diss 60 minutes it is still the 2nd best news program on TV. 

And CBS will not change until the NFL is no longer a cash cow or 60 Minutes is no longer highly rated. I have been padding CBS Sunday's for years. I am happy decided to not start until later though.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

First of all, to the OP... That "Long-ago-should-have-been-retired 60 Minutes," is still the best news show on the air, with incredible viewership... To the poster who said "They really should just switch to the program at its scheduled time; if the sports leagues can't figure out how to finish a game in a timely manner, they should pay the price," We really don't want that either. (Oh btw, I work for both of those shows). 
Seriously, as a typical home viewer of the CBS Sunday Night lineup, just do what I do, A manual record (Season Pass) of the entire CBS Lineup from 7am to midnight. That gets you EVERYTHING. Ahhhhh the advantages of a Dual Tuner TiVo. 
Now to answer the other issue, half the weekends of the NFL season, CBS gets "single header" coverage, and FOX gets "double header" coverage, on other weekends this situation flips. During "single header" coverage, your local market gets only a 1pm ET (10am PT) or 4pm (1pm PT) game. If your market got only a 1PM game there is NO delay of the primetime lineup. If your market gets the 4PM game, then yes, you are subject to a potential delay. Now on "double header" coverage Sundays when most markets get both an early and late game, all the markets for that network are subject to delays.


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## skaeight (Jan 20, 2004)

Yeah, now that I think about it, CBS had the early game in my market, so this should not have been a problem for me. FOX had the doubleheader.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I record all three shows (TAR, CC & WAT) and just pad the last one for an hour.

That puts the pressure on watching WAT asap because I don't like having a two hour recordng sitting there taking up space.


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## ILoveCats&Tivo (Feb 14, 2006)

This who overrun stuff irritates me too. CBS thinks they are all that and a bag of chips (which holds true for me because most of the shows are watch are on the eye), so they will do whatever they want. I caught the overrun last night and padded WAT. I should have been wise and just padded the pass by an hour before it even started.

I don't know if it had anything to do with all the shows running late, but I think CBS came in below most of the networks for ratings on Sunday.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Following up again...

Sorry, but 60 minutes -- regardless of the number of geezers that watch it -- is a shadow of it's former self. That it continues to do well in ratings may have more to do with the fact that people are too damned lazy to change the channel following football than with actually being a compelling news show.

Now, if you want to say that Face the Nation is still compelling, I'm there with you.


Cold Case might have been a show I would have enjoyed along the way, but I never started watching the series and don't have room to make for it now. Without a Trace would be ok, and I might watch an occassional episode (or did, when it was aired on a different nite), but it doesn't trump anything else I have set to watch, so....

Too bad, so sad, I'll put in just enough to watch TAR and forget about the rest of the CBS Sunday night line-up, and even that is subject to change if padding the show out becomes too much of a chore or it opens up too darned many conflicts with other programs.


I give credit for a good show (TAR) which just happens to be a reality show, but it doesn't change my opinion that screwing over viewers because of refusing to move 60 minutes around or cutting it short to keep the rest of the prime time schedule in line is a slap in the face to the disaffected viewers.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

You should have been watching Football Night in America on NBC anyway, so stop complaining. ;-)


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

scheckeNYK said:


> You should have been watching Football Night in America on NBC anyway, so stop complaining. ;-)


NBC's Sunday Night Football is "joined in progress" in my household   :up:

Unfortunately the 8pm - 10pm time frame is occupied with stuff from FOX, CBS and then ABC (Desperate Housewives).

I've even resorted to using two tuners on my MCE box (in the same room as my HR10-250) to make sure that everything on my recording list is adequately covered.

Now, if either of my favorite teams (the locals, Washington Redskins or Baltimore Ravens) are playing in the Sunday night game, then I might rearrange the priorities as necessary


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Location: NY
Recording: Without a Trace, No Padding
Result: Captured in entirety, from cold-open to end credits


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

bdowell said:


> Following up again...
> 
> Sorry, but 60 minutes -- regardless of the number of geezers that watch it -- is a shadow of it's former self. That it continues to do well in ratings may have more to do with the fact that people are too damned lazy to change the channel following football than with actually being a compelling news show.
> 
> Now, if you want to say that Face the Nation is still compelling, I'm there with you.


60 Minutes will be a shadow of it's former self if they continue to let Katie Couric do segments.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

drew2k said:


> Location: NY
> Recording: Without a Trace, No Padding
> Result: Captured in entirety, from cold-open to end credits


You weren't in the CBS doubleheader region, drew. The regions affected had a 4:15PM Ravens-Browns game.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

bidger said:


> You weren't in the CBS doubleheader region, drew. The regions affected had a 4:15PM Ravens-Browns game.


Thanks. From the first post, I just got the impression that this was a problem regardless of location. I'm glad I stopped in, though, because this reminds me I need to pad WAT for the future ... I know I'll get burned somewhere down the road.


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## ewolfr (Feb 12, 2001)

I have a feeling that TAR will be moving soon. Give the new season a few weeks to claim some losers either on CBS or some other network and that will give CBS the ability to move the show.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

mwhip said:


> 60 Minutes will be a shadow of it's former self if they continue to let Katie Couric do segments.


Actually watch her segment last night? I thought she was rather insistent that Condoleeza Rice address the issue of WMD's in Iraq when Rice was clearly avoiding the question.

Now, back on topic, every time there's a thread like this I will continue to come in and rant towards the posters who clearly have no focus in reality. I do like the idea of a shadow airing so that somewhere it airs on time, but it probably won't happen.

I'm 29 years old. I've been watching 60 Minutes for 2-3 years after realizing that my "geezer" parents making me watch it all those years were actually showing me some quality programming. I imagine that there will continue to be many people like me who are piggy-backing on their parents' viewing habits.

For the people suggesting that CBS bounce something, I'll ask you to at least come up with an alternative. The Sunday night shows (mostly reruns, mind you) on CBS ranked 8th (60 Minutes), 11th (Amazing Race - the only new show) and 15th (Without a Trace). Cold Case didn't air because their season hadn't premiered yet and for once, CBS actually scheduled their NFL overrun. Considering CBS was going up against new shows and everything finished in the top 20, I think it's safe to say no one's going anywhere.

Football is king. With the dual-tuner TiVo, there is no excuse for people to be complaining about a scheduling overrun that they couldn't foresee.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

serumgard said:


> Actually watch her segment last night? I thought she was rather insistent that Condoleeza Rice address the issue of WMD's in Iraq when Rice was clearly avoiding the question.
> 
> Now, back on topic, every time there's a thread like this I will continue to come in and rant towards the posters who clearly have no focus in reality. I do like the idea of a shadow airing so that somewhere it airs on time, but it probably won't happen.
> 
> ...


Serumgard, I'm glad to see that some of the younger folks are indeed looking for quality programming and information, that coming from someone slowly approaching old geezer status.

But as a minor correction. Last night, 60 Minutes along with all the other shows on CBS were all first run. 60, Case, and Trace were season premiers.

And yes, there are ways to deal with the football induced delay

Scott


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

MScottC said:


> Serumgard, I'm glad to see that some of the younger folks are indeed looking for quality programming and information, that coming from someone slowly approaching old geezer status.
> 
> But as a minor correction. Last night, 60 Minutes along with all the other shows on CBS were all first run. 60, Case, and Trace were season premiers.
> 
> ...


Sorry, yes, you're correct. I was referring to the week ending 9/17 - all the CBS shows were reruns and were going up against new shows (with the exception of ABC).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

What I used to do with Fox was not adjust any of my season passes but just record the program following the last show I was recording.

That way, I didn't have a large 2 hour block on my TiVo that I couldn't delete until I watched it all and if I knew that the shows I wanted were done and I was home, i could stop the final recording, so I only had a show the size of the overrun.

Granted, I had the Simpsons overlapping into the next show but that happens anyway often enough.

A lot easier to do than to adjust all your SPs to try to match the overruns.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

I enjoy my fair share of news programming, news magazines (like 60 minutes), and even 60 minutes occassionally, but most of the time 60 minutes is just plain useless. Give me Meet the Press, or Face the Nation any day. Keep 60 minutes and give me Dateline or something else instead.

Padding shows only works if you have tuners free for padding them. Unfortunately I don't.

Highly rated night for CBS? Good for them, but it doesn't mean that they can't make better plans than shifting their programming nnn minutes to cover the over-runs each week. Seriously, cut 60 minutes back to fit the available time and run something else (like a football wrap up show) to fill the time. It still leaves plenty of time for at least one full segment, if not 2 or more, and doesn't piss of the population that expects to see shows start and end on time.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

bdowell said:


> I enjoy my fair share of news programming, news magazines (like 60 minutes), and even 60 minutes occassionally, but most of the time 60 minutes is just plain useless. Give me Meet the Press, or Face the Nation any day. Keep 60 minutes and give me Dateline or something else instead.
> 
> Padding shows only works if you have tuners free for padding them. Unfortunately I don't.
> 
> Highly rated night for CBS? Good for them, but it doesn't mean that they can't make better plans than shifting their programming nnn minutes to cover the over-runs each week. Seriously, cut 60 minutes back to fit the available time and run something else (like a football wrap up show) to fill the time. It still leaves plenty of time for at least one full segment, if not 2 or more, and doesn't piss of the population that expects to see shows start and end on time.


What's the higher rated show? A rerun of 60 Minutes or The Amazing Race? Check the numbers, it's the 60 Minutes rerun. So guess which audience they're going to be less prone to piss off? Just because 60 Minutes seems to have a built-in format that will allow you to cut it back doesn't mean it's going to please more people by doing so so that TAR or Cold Case or Without a Trace can run on time.

And keep in mind you're also requesting that the networks adjust their schedules to appease the DVR mindset, who are the bane of their very existence. They don't care that your TiVo didn't catch the overrun.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

serumgard said:


> What's the higher rated show? A rerun of 60 Minutes or The Amazing Race? Check the numbers, it's the 60 Minutes rerun. So guess which audience they're going to be less prone to piss off? Just because 60 Minutes seems to have a built-in format that will allow you to cut it back doesn't mean it's going to please more people by doing so so that TAR or Cold Case or Without a Trace can run on time.
> 
> And keep in mind you're also requesting that the networks adjust their schedules to appease the DVR mindset, who are the bane of their very existence. They don't care that your TiVo didn't catch the overrun.


Ok, so 60 minutes beats out Amazing Race, or at least it seems that way when you look at in the vacuum, but gee, how about the thought that 60 minutes is aired opposite relatively light competition while Amazing Race gets put up against the regular prime time hour "bests" that the other networks have to offer, as well as being run opposite football over on NBC?

In anycase, the bad news for CBS was that they landed at the bottom for this week's ratings:
(From The Futon Critic)


> And falling to a surprising fourth place was CBS (households: 8.9/14, #2; adults 18-49: 3.6, #4) with new episodes of "60 Minutes" (households: 8.2/14, #7; adults 18-49: 2.4, #16) and "The Amazing Race 10" (households: 6.6/11, #9; adults 18-49: 3.5, #14) alongside the season premieres of the relocated "Cold Case" (households: 9.7/15, #5; adults 18-49: 4.0, #T11) and "Without a Trace" (households: 11.0/18, #2; adults 18-49: 4.8, #T7).


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

bdowell said:


> Ok, so 60 minutes beats out Amazing Race, or at least it seems that way when you look at in the vacuum, but gee, how about the thought that 60 minutes is aired opposite relatively light competition while Amazing Race gets put up against the regular prime time hour "bests" that the other networks have to offer, as well as being run opposite football over on NBC?
> 
> In anycase, the bad news for CBS was that they landed at the bottom for this week's ratings:
> (From The Futon Critic)


You're arguing semantics without recognizing that the second half of a 60 Minutes rerun went up against those prime time hour "bests" and still averaged 8th in the ratings, and the overrun was included in your prime time hour "bests" this Sunday and finished 7th overall. And your argument about 60 Minutes being a "geezer" show is pretty much thrown out the window when you consider that it finished 16th among the 18-49 demographic. Do you honesty believe 60 Minutes is going anywhere? It's been around for almost 40 years. It has undergone journalist changes and will continue do so, and it's not going anywhere.

I'm not a 60 Minutes apologist. Every two weeks someone comes out and jumps up and down and screams, "Please fix the overrun problem." It's not going to be fixed by the networks because most people figure out to wait for their show to come on and the people who don't are the ones who use a DVR and screw the networks out of their hard-earned advertising money.

Sorry, just a sore spot for me.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

serumgard said:


> With the dual-tuner TiVo, there is no excuse for people to be complaining about a scheduling overrun that they couldn't foresee.


Not everyone has a dual-tuner TiVo.

That said, if the scheduling overrun is so forseeable, why is it so outrageous for us to expect CBS to forsee it when it makes its guide data?

When was the last time a 4:15 kickoff ended and was off the air by 7:00? It never ever happens. So, why doesn't the guide data reflect that 60 Minutes will start at 7:30, with the other prime time shows follwing until the local news at 11:30?

As between me and my local CBS affiliate, who is in a better position to know when my local CBS affiliate is airing a 4:15 game?


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

aindik said:


> Not everyone has a dual-tuner TiVo.
> 
> That said, if the scheduling overrun is so forseeable, why is it so outrageous for us to expect CBS to forsee it when it makes its guide data?
> 
> ...


The dual-tuner TiVo is incredibly affordable and was the biggest complaint anyone's had since TiVo was first released. My opinion is that it's no longer an excuse. I'm quite positive that's an extremely arrogant viewpoint on my part.

As I understand it the networks don't have the rights to the 11:00 hour, so they can't actually schedule the 11:00-11:30 hour.

Ironically enough, much as I've ranted and raved, I actually believe that Fox has done it right by scheduling a football run until 8pm. CBS just can't do it because 60 Minutes is as entrenched at 7pm on Sunday nights as the NFL is on Sunday nights. I'd be interested to see what would happen if CBS backed 60 Minutes up to 8pm and moved one of their other Sunday night shows to another night. Won't ever happen, but I'd like to see it.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

serumgard said:


> The dual-tuner TiVo is incredibly affordable and was the biggest complaint anyone's had since TiVo was first released. My opinion is that it's no longer an excuse. I'm quite positive that's an extremely arrogant viewpoint on my part.
> 
> _As I understand it the networks don't have the rights to the 11:00 hour, so they can't actually schedule the 11:00-11:30 hour._
> 
> Ironically enough, much as I've ranted and raved, I actually believe that Fox has done it right by scheduling a football run until 8pm. CBS just can't do it because 60 Minutes is as entrenched at 7pm on Sunday nights as the NFL is on Sunday nights. *I'd be interested to see what would happen if CBS backed 60 Minutes up to 8pm and moved one of their other Sunday night shows to another night. Won't ever happen, but I'd like to see it.*


Why would it (bold face) not happen? Because CBS fears that moving the show would lose it the audience it has? Why, because it skews so friggin' old. Geezers don't stay awake all nite long waiting for shows like 60 minutes. Even the non-senior citizen geezers (like my father-in-law in his better days) that watch the show aren't going to make time for it on Sunday at 8pm because they'd have to stay awake until 9pm to watch the end of it and since they're too busy getting up early to race all of the other rats in the a.m., they can't possibly afford to give up an hours worth of sleep on the nite before the start of the work week.

Another reason? Because the later evening hours tend to be when the younger viewers are paying attention -- exactly why CBS is airing The Amazing Race in the 8pm hour, to lead into the other shows of the nite.

I wish CBS had the guts to try moving 60 minutes too. Like you, I doubt it will happen and given the other point (italicized) you raised CBS doesn't want to have to admit that they can't get their scheduled events to end on time, and they don't want to possibly miss the chance to snag some extra eyes for 60 minutes by getting the people that are looking for TAR to stick around while waiting for it. Telling the affiliates that CBS will continually be using that extra 30 minutes ain't gonna happen, which is all the more reason I wish they'd suck it up and just cut 60 minutes back to 30 minutes during football season.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

What's interesting that that CBS did pad the football game last week - there was a half hour of "TBD" at 7, 60 minutes was scheduled from 7:30 to 8:30, and TAR was 90 minutes from 8:30-10. This week I had to pad TAR when I realized that CBS didn't pad the schedule.

TiVo tried to record Without a Trace as a suggestion, missed the last 15 minutes (which ticked off the wife, who wanted to watch it tonight).

I now have TAR padded to 90 minutes and a Season Pass for WAT, also padded to 90 minutes.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

serumgard said:


> The dual-tuner TiVo is incredibly affordable and was the biggest complaint anyone's had since TiVo was first released. My opinion is that it's no longer an excuse. I'm quite positive that's an extremely arrogant viewpoint on my part.


It's cheap. But the TiVo I already have is (as far as future payments by me are concerned) free. The S2DT can't beat free.



serumgard said:


> As I understand it the networks don't have the rights to the 11:00 hour, so they can't actually schedule the 11:00-11:30 hour.
> 
> Ironically enough, much as I've ranted and raved, I actually believe that Fox has done it right by scheduling a football run until 8pm. CBS just can't do it because 60 Minutes is as entrenched at 7pm on Sunday nights as the NFL is on Sunday nights. I'd be interested to see what would happen if CBS backed 60 Minutes up to 8pm and moved one of their other Sunday night shows to another night. Won't ever happen, but I'd like to see it.


The networks can schedule the 11-11:30 hour. They do it with other shows like the Oscars. ABC scheduled MNF past 11:00 forever, and NBC does it this year on Sunday nights. If the affiliates consent, they can schedule out to 11:30. They do it now, they just don't do it ahead of time.

As far as moving 60 minutes to 8:00, CBS already airs it at 8:00 (or 7:30 or 7:45) now. This would just change the guide data to actually reflect that.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I record all three shows (TAR, CC & WAT) and just pad the last one for an hour.
> 
> That puts the pressure on watching WAT asap because I don't like having a two hour recordng sitting there taking up space.


Don't do it that way. I got a suggestion from someone on here that works better (and I record TAR, CC, and WAT on the same TiVo). Set up a recurring manual recording for 11pm-midnight (or whatever you choose). If football runs over, the manual recording will catch the extra time. If it doesn't run over, then you can just delete the manual recording and still just have your 1 hour WAT. If you are home and you notice that football ran over, but not by the amount of your scheduled manual recording, you can change the recording options to shorten it.

Worked great for me this week....no overrun, so I deleted the manual from the To Do list before it even started.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

jlb said:


> Don't do it that way. I got a suggestion from someone on here that works better (and I record TAR, CC, and WAT on the same TiVo). Set up a recurring manual recording for 11pm-midnight (or whatever you choose). If football runs over, the manual recording will catch the extra time. If it doesn't run over, then you can just delete the manual recording and still just have your 1 hour WAT. If you are home and you notice that football ran over, but not by the amount of your scheduled manual recording, you can change the recording options to shorten it.
> 
> Worked great for me this week....no overrun, so I deleted the manual from the To Do list before it even started.


 :up:

Thanks, sometimes the obvious solution isn't all that obvious.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

That is a good solution.

This week, we were fine because CBS did not have a late game ehre.

However, I thought I read somewhere a long time ago, that CBS did not mind it when the games ran long and in fact decided not to do a pad show because they felt it helped keep veiwers on CBS longer when their start times were out of sync. The problem is TiVo veiwers do not just watch whatever is on after the game because we are already there.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

When we heard that CBS was moving Without a Trace to Sunday, we decided to stop watching it at the end of last season. We never watched Cold Case because we never knew what time it would be on. Now we never watch Without a Trace either. When the networks figure out that folks just don't watch shows if they aren't going to be on at a consistent time, then I'll start watching them again.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

bdowell, 
I just hope you know the difference between "young fart" and "old geezer." About 30 years. Just remember, one day you will be as old as some of us here. I hope you can deal with the the term "old geezer" when you hit 50.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

<sigh> HWGA.

You might as well blame the Ravens. It shouldn't take that long to finish off the Browns. 

FWIW, I agree that it's ridiculous to schedule 60 minutes at 7PM following a 4:15 football game, but that's what they've always done, well before the DVR. Pad accordingly. If you watch the whole block of CBS, record the local CBS news @ 11.

Whenever I found myself in the situation of "too many conflicts to pad" I took a step back and realized I was using my TiVo *to watch too much TV*. I never had that "problem" before TiVo.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

MacThor said:


> <sigh> HWGA.
> 
> You might as well blame the Ravens. It shouldn't take that long to finish off the Browns.
> 
> ...


Prior to the DVR, nobody used the guide data to do anything other than read it. If you were scheduling something on your VCR, you looked at the guide data (i.e. in the newspaper) and might see what's before and after the show you're recording.

With a DVR, you're supposed to be able to get your shows without doing that. It's possible that a person with a TiVo who watches Without a Trace doesn't even know it's on Sunday nights.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

MScottC said:


> bdowell,
> I just hope you know the difference between "young fart" and "old geezer." About 30 years. Just remember, one day you will be as old as some of us here. I hope you can deal with the the term "old geezer" when you hit 50.


I'm thinking you have absolutely no idea where I fit in that timeline, but it doesn't much matter.

A person is only as old as they let themselves be, and I'll not let numbers define it for me. I may let behavior do it, and have done that some here for sure.

Also, for the record, I have a good friend that also is notoriously early to bed and early to rise. He's exhibited plenty of geezer traits, but I don't think he's in any danger of being hauled off to Florida to start taking advantage of the early bird specials yet.

I just call 'em as I see 'em though, and CBS has long been known as a network that 'skews old', with 60 Minutes (and the rapidly aging cast of regulars on there) being one of the mainstays of the viewing preferences for older viewers.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

serumgard said:


> Actually watch her segment last night? I thought she was rather insistent that Condoleeza Rice address the issue of WMD's in Iraq when Rice was clearly avoiding the question.


What did Kouric do? Try to get Rice to admit there weren't any WMD's in Iraq even though Rice and the Bush administration had said there were? Wow, stop the presses - that IS a scoop!

My point: what was newsworthy about that? Or even 60 Minutes-ish?

When someone asks questions about facts that have been known for 3 or 4 years, that's not news, that's fluff. Oh, and I'll bet Kouric did get around to asking Rice about "so, how does a Secretary of State date - do tell!"


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

aindik said:


> It's possible that a person with a TiVo who watches Without a Trace doesn't even know it's on Sunday nights.


There have been times when we were talking about a show at work. I told people how great it was and they asked me when it was on, I had no idea.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

60 Minutes still gets good ratings. It does well after Sunday football. CBS would be very stupid to schedule Sunday night in way that accommodates DVR (and VCR) viewers who probably fast forward through many of the commercials. Going directly from football to 60 Minutes makes the most sense from a ratings perspective.

CBS sometimes has a short and a long version of 60 minutes available. They might have a 40 and a 75 version, cut one story and one story has some extras. Pad an hour for all CBS shows. Mainly to accomodate very long football games that go overtime.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

bdowell said:


> I'm thinking you have absolutely no idea where I fit in that timeline, but it doesn't much matter.
> 
> A person is only as old as they let themselves be, and I'll not let numbers define it for me. I may let behavior do it, and have done that some here for sure.
> 
> ...


CBS hasn't "skewed old" for years - not since shows like CSI and Cold Case and Without a Trace have shown up on the network. And if you're going to consider someone a geezer if they watch 60 Minutes, I guess I'm the youngest geezer on earth (although, in my defense, I do make an iPod video for 60 Minutes and listen to it as if it were a podcast...and I'm perfectly capable of padding 60 Minutes for the time overrun, thank you very much). And check the ratings you yourself posted...60 Minutes is still 16th in the 18-49 crowd. Not exactly skewing old.

And your argument about 60 Minutes not being pushed back because of the aforementioned "geezer crowd", I'll give you three words: Murder She Wrote. Ran for a decade after 60 Minutes. Skewed older than 60 Minutes. Ran up huge ratings entertaining geezers who were up until 9 pm.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I really do recall times as a kid when 60 minutes would either be joined "in progress" or that they'd start 60 minutes late; wasn't it mostly broadcast live (in the sense of the hosts introducing segments) at one time?


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Bananfish said:


> What did Kouric do? Try to get Rice to admit there weren't any WMD's in Iraq even though Rice and the Bush administration had said there were? Wow, stop the presses - that IS a scoop!
> 
> My point: what was newsworthy about that? Or even 60 Minutes-ish?
> 
> When someone asks questions about facts that have been known for 3 or 4 years, that's not news, that's fluff. Oh, and I'll bet Kouric did get around to asking Rice about "so, how does a Secretary of State date - do tell!"


Couric's interview had little to do with the WMD's in Iraq but rather Rice's upbringing and her relationship with the girls who were victims of a church bombing in Alabama in 1965. Yes, they brought up her current relationship status, but unfortunately in today's society that's something the viewers want. Was it a fluff piece? I didn't think so, but I'm guessing others would think so. Point is, I don't think that Couric's pieces thus far have been anything worth complaining about.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

serumgard said:


> And your argument about 60 Minutes not being pushed back because of the aforementioned "geezer crowd", I'll give you three words: Murder She Wrote. Ran for a decade after 60 Minutes. Skewed older than 60 Minutes. Ran up huge ratings entertaining geezers who were up until 9 pm.


And even later if football ran over.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

dswallow said:


> I really do recall times as a kid when 60 minutes would either be joined "in progress" or that they'd start 60 minutes late; wasn't it mostly broadcast live (in the sense of the hosts introducing segments) at one time?


You mean the CBS announcers were lying all those times they said, promptly at 7:00 Eastern, "'60 Minutes' will air _in its entirety_ immediately following the game, except on the West Coast"?

I never watched CBS's Sunday night programming as a kid, but I did watch NBC's, and I do remember their lineup getting delayed by football -- more so than in many other markets, since we had a home team in the NFC (which usually got blacked out back then, but that usually meant the CBS affiliate got a 1:00 game and the NBC affiliate had to take a 4:00 game).

In 1985-86 when it was the 7:00 Sunday show, they made a few 15-minute episodes of "Punky Brewster" for NBC to plug in at the last minute if football ran late, but I don't remember that actually happening; I assume it would have caused bizarre problems for the sales and traffic departments if some markets were seeing a 30-minute "Punky Brewster" and others got a different episode for only 15 minutes. (And therefore, they ended up running two 15-minute episodes back to back in some weeks later in the season.)


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## MaryT (Dec 3, 2001)

I just got a DT tivo for this exact reason. We had Sundays & Thursdays with "problem" programming, and just did it.

Right now we have AR padded an hour. The second tuner will pick up DH on ABC at it's regular time.

I really didn't have a problem with padding on Sunday nights until they moved AR into the 8pm time slot and we ran the risk of missing DH.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

MScottC said:


> bdowell,
> I just hope you know the difference between "young fart" and "old geezer." About 30 years. Just remember, one day you will be as old as some of us here. I hope you can deal with the the term "old geezer" when you hit 50.


Father time does have a way of evening the score.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

My wife was seriously p.o.'d at CBS again yesterday over chopping about 30 minutes (actually more I think) out of Amazing Race thanks to the severe football overrun in the D.C. market.

Thankfully I had already set one of the DirecTV DVR (TiVo) boxes to pad it out by an hour and she was able to successfully see the end of the show on that box.

CBS can still burn in heck though for not fixing their damned schedule. I've given up on TAR (which is one of my favorite shows otherwise) and am now completely avoiding CBS's Sunday nite line-up.

If they can't be respectful towards their viewers -- and I'm not just talking about DVR users -- and schedule around the football season, then screw 'em.

My wife was about ready to say the same thing, but she got lucky with my forethought on padding out the recording on our "backup" DirecTiVo box. If not for that, she'd have kissed the season goodbye and been ready to fire off hate mail to CBS. She's long since been mad at them over their shuffling of Big Brother (though that was mostly a local affiliate thing I think) for much the same reasons.

Networks that aren't smart enough to make sure their prime time slate airs at their promised times don't deserve my viewership.

Hmm, did I just find another reason to put the final nails in Smith's coffins? Could be.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

The CBS overrun for football is twice what the audiences for their primetime is they want the football crowd more. Especially for advertisers because the key demo in football watchers is men 18-50.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

mwhip said:


> The CBS overrun for football is twice what the audiences for their primetime is they want the football crowd more. Especially for advertisers because the key demo in football watchers is men 18-50.


Then they should SCHEDULE IT PROPERLY. These childish games of scheduling mostly impossible start times to get viewers to tune in and sit through the end of a game they had no interest in have to stop.

The networks spend money on the programming that follows these sports overruns, too. And I'm sure they'd like to spend less than they make there, as well.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

so they put up some B.S. program as a filler before their must see lineup is scheduled. THe game is over by 7:00 (eastern) then you'll have complaints on why they have to wait a half hour to watch 60 minutes. There is no proper way to schedule that makes everyone happy.

The ******* game yesterday went over by a little over 30 minutes. Only a long pass play enabled that game to end when it did - it could have easily went over another half hour or so.

When you have an audience with different expectations - how do you make it work?


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Then they should SCHEDULE IT PROPERLY. These childish games of scheduling mostly impossible start times to get viewers to tune in and sit through the end of a game they had no interest in have to stop.
> 
> The networks spend money on the programming that follows these sports overruns, too. And I'm sure they'd like to spend less than they make there, as well.


How? CBS has 4 shows on Sunday; 60 Minutes, TAR, Cold Case and Without a Trace. I remember when I was a kid CBS had 4 shows on and football would always overrun. Before DVR technology we just had to sit there and wait for them to come on now at least I don't have to sit there I can just record the CBS block from 6PM to midnight and get my local news in there.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

I can buy that CBS wants the football viewers. No problem at all, but what they are doing is losing them viewers for the other shows. They wind up with bogus ratings for shows like TAR because instead of having TAR in the proper time slot they have 35 minutes worth of 60 minutes in that time period.

As DSwallow says above - stop playing games with the scheduling. If you know that you aren't going to be able to air a show at it's promised time slot, then pad your own network schedule out accordingly.

Here's a better idea - you want the football viewers in that 7pm - 8pm time slot? Then darnit, do what FOX has done - air a football wrap up show in that time slot. Give us highlights of the day's games, interviews with the coaches and players, and looks at next week's games, standings, injuries, etc.

FOX learned their lesson and I give them props for it (though they can still BURN IN HELL for cancelling Firefly  ). They are no longer jerking the schedule around and for that I give them priority on my Sunday TV watching (for the most part).

CBS has basically earned their way off my TV viewing. Sorry The Unit, Smith, TAR, etc. I'll watch at my convenience, but if I miss it, oh well, too bad so sad. Again, they don't respect me as a viewer, I don't respect them as a network. They can kiss my butt and cry over drops in ratings and I won't care.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> so they put up some B.S. program as a filler before their must see lineup is scheduled. THe game is over by 7:00 (eastern) then you'll have complaints on why they have to wait a half hour to watch 60 minutes. There is no proper way to schedule that makes everyone happy.
> 
> The ******* game yesterday went over by a little over 30 minutes. Only a long pass play enabled that game to end when it did - it could have easily went over another half hour or so.
> 
> When you have an audience with different expectations - how do you make it work?


When it runs over well more than half the time, the scheduling is the problem.

Add an hour to the game time and use any remaining time once the game is over for sports wrap-up type shows. If a game runs more than 60 minutes over, which should be extremely rare, they can just do what they do now.

I still think they could do something with their OTA digital signal to provide the programming on time all the time, too, since they can have multiple video streams.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

mwhip said:


> How? CBS has 4 shows on Sunday; 60 Minutes, TAR, Cold Case and Without a Trace. I remember when I was a kid CBS had 4 shows on and football would always overrun. Before DVR technology we just had to sit there and wait for them to come on now at least I don't have to sit there I can just record the CBS block from 6PM to midnight and get my local news in there.


They can just move one of the shows to another time slot on a different day or not have it air during whatever sports season it happens to be interfering with.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

bdowell said:


> I can buy that CBS wants the football viewers. No problem at all, but what they are doing is losing them viewers for the other shows. They wind up with bogus ratings for shows like TAR because instead of having TAR in the proper time slot they have 35 minutes worth of 60 minutes in that time period.


Not true. When you look at the Neilsen ratings, you will see the actual start time of a show. So you would see something like this:

NFL Overrun - 7pm
60 Minutes - 7:37pm
The Amazing Race - 8:37pm
Cold Case - 9:37pm
Without a Trace - 10:37pm

So when you look at the ratings for The Amazing Race, you can be assured that the numbers are correct of The Amazing Race and not 60 Minutes overruns.



bdowell said:


> CBS has basically earned their way off my TV viewing. Sorry The Unit, Smith, TAR, etc. I'll watch at my convenience, but if I miss it, oh well, too bad so sad. Again, they don't respect me as a viewer, I don't respect them as a network. They can kiss my butt and cry over drops in ratings and I won't care.


Show us something that says what their drop in numbers are. CBS's Sunday night lineup is one of the strongest nights of the week for any of the networks. Until that changes, their behavior won't.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> so they put up some B.S. program as a filler before their must see lineup is scheduled. THe game is over by 7:00 (eastern) then you'll have complaints on why they have to wait a half hour to watch 60 minutes. There is no proper way to schedule that makes everyone happy.
> 
> The ******* game yesterday went over by a little over 30 minutes. Only a long pass play enabled that game to end when it did - it could have easily went over another half hour or so.
> 
> When you have an audience with different expectations - how do you make it work?


You make it work as noted above - you air some football wrap up show or something else. You put 60 minutes on the shelf until after football season is over, or you move 60 minutes to 60 minutes later, move TAR off to another nite, or something similar.

Stop trying to cram 4 hours into a space that is only 3.5 hours (on average) long.

I know the 60 minutes defenders here think it's blasphemy to move it or shelve it until after football season is done, but it doesn't have to be stuck permanently on Sunday nites. But then again, they could just as easily move TAR and again, keep people happy for the most part.

If 60 minutes is all that and a bag of chips, then hey, give them 90 minutes of time and pad it out by revisiting some prior stories and showing some followups or something like that. At least leave the 8pm - 10:59:59pm time frame set so that people aren't screwed on what they want to see.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

CBS had ok numbers by the way, but ABC ruled the nite: Zap2It.com ratings info.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

bdowell said:


> You make it work as noted above - you air some football wrap up show or something else. You put 60 minutes on the shelf until after football season is over, or you move 60 minutes to 60 minutes later, move TAR off to another nite, or something similar.


If they did that, it would upset me more than the overruns.

Why, because I plan ahead for overruns and they aren't an issue for me. I suspect more people would be upset with a game wrapup show wasting valuable prime time space then the overruns, of course I could be wrong.

I do think the other major networks would love your plan.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

There are just too many shows on Sunday nights to screw around with CBS. I have a season pass to Cold Case. When I watch it, if there's no Cold Case at the beginning of the recording, I delete it. That makes it simple (and cuts down a bit on my TV watching).

NBC pioneered intelligent (that is, not mentally retarded) Sunday night schedulng the last couple of years they had the NFL--they would air an episode of Dateline tailored to fit the time left after the game ended. Now, Fox has finally figured it out. CBS probably can't do that because their 60 Minutes crew can't handle live television.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Gunnyman said:


> I'm confused.
> My Amazing Race started on time last night. Did I luck out because whatever football game I had in my market ended on time?


Sure did. I got screwed over.

I lost almost 15 minutes of TAR the first week, so I padded my recording by 15 minutes. I figured that there wouldn't be that much overage to a game. So this week, it ran over by around a half hour. 

It wasn't even our market's game...screw it. Cut away to regular programming. Or use the subchannels for digital viewers at least, like Doug said. That would be an actual good use of subchannels.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There are just too many shows on Sunday nights to screw around with CBS. I have a season pass to Cold Case. When I watch it, if there's no Cold Case at the beginning of the recording, I delete it. That makes it simple (and cuts down a bit on my TV watching).
> 
> NBC pioneered intelligent (that is, not mentally retarded) Sunday night schedulng the last couple of years they had the NFL--they would air an episode of Dateline tailored to fit the time left after the game ended. Now, Fox has finally figured it out. *CBS probably can't do that because their 60 Minutes crew can't handle live television.*


Probably true since Ed Bradley and a lot of the other reporters on the show seem like they must be on life support and are fading fast...


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

I've managed this problem by scheduling Cold Case at the regular 60-minute timeslot and adding 60 minutes to Without A Trace. Of course, I wind up watching half of Cold Case recorded under its name and half recorded under WAT's name, but at least I get all of both programs.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> NBC pioneered intelligent (that is, not mentally retarded) Sunday night schedulng the last couple of years they had the NFL--they would air an episode of Dateline tailored to fit the time left after the game ended. Now, Fox has finally figured it out. CBS probably can't do that because their 60 Minutes crew can't handle live television.


Wow, a common sense approach. How hard would that be, CBS???


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

bdowell said:


> CBS had ok numbers by the way, but ABC ruled the nite: Zap2It.com ratings info.


Did you actually read the article? ABC had more total viewers (by 50,000...not exactly a dominant number), but CBS won the night in ratings. "Ruled the night" isn't exactly the phrase I'd use.

On top of that, the football overrun actually helped CBS's ratings. My advice: stop worrying about it and follow the advice others have given you regarding padding your Sunday night recordings.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

If there isn't a 4:05/15 game on for me locally (channel 9 in D.C.), will 60 Minutes always start on time, or would they ever join the tail end of the late game(s) and then start 60 Minutes afterwards? Something tells me the answer has to do with whether it's a CBS doubleheader weekend and/or whether the Redskins and/or Ravens are playing at home or the highly unlikely event that they didn't sell out a home game. I always hear the announcers welcome "those of you expecting to see 60 Minutes" but I'm never sure if those are people who are just turning on their TV's, or people who have been watching something on CBS other than football leading up to 7:00.

Basically I'm wondering if I can cancel ahead of time the manual recordings I have set up from 11:00 - 12:00 to catch any overrun of Without A Trace, if there isn't a 4:00 game on my CBS station, or is it still possible that 60 Minutes will start late?

Btw, when they say 60 Minutes will start immediately following the game except on the west coast, does that mean that in the Mountain time zone, 60 Minutes starts as early as shortly after 5:00 PM local time?


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

If the NFL would start their pathetic football games an hour early there wouldn't be a problem on Sunday evenings.


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

I have embarked on a sure fire solution to this problem. I am moving from the east coast to Las Vegas. Seriously, I just took a job in LV starting in January. Problem solved. Not the cheapest solution, but still...


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Graymalkin said:


> I've managed this problem by scheduling Cold Case at the regular 60-minute timeslot and adding 60 minutes to Without A Trace. Of course, I wind up watching half of Cold Case recorded under its name and half recorded under WAT's name, but at least I get all of both programs.


That's what I did initially but someone suggested to me last week that it would be better to put a manual recording for the hour after WAT - that way you can delete it if it wasn't required. Otherwise you end up with a two hour recording that takes up space. So that's what I did and so far, so good.


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

TomK said:


> If the NFL would start their pathetic football games an hour early there wouldn't be a problem on Sunday evenings.


The West coast is already watching the early games at 10 AM as it is. You want them to tune in at 9 AM on a Sunday morning? Yeah right! Just wait until the NFL takes a look at the overtime rules this off-season and if they decide to make it more fair by allowing each team a possession. No more sudden death like in yesterday's WAS-JAX game. It'll be more like college and can drag on even further into your precious Sunday night lineups!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

scheckeNYK said:


> The West coast is already watching the early games at 10 AM as it is. You want them to tune in at 9 AM on a Sunday morning?


If they were on at 9:00 AM, I'd watch more games. When they're on at noon, it just breaks up the day too much.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

serumgard said:


> Did you actually read the article? ABC had more total viewers (by 50,000...not exactly a dominant number), but CBS won the night in ratings. "Ruled the night" isn't exactly the phrase I'd use.


No, CBS didn't win the night in "ratings." Did you read the article _or_ the headline? *ABC Sacks NFL Sunday* pretty much sums it up.

ABC ruled the night by any standard. CBS came out ahead in number of households, but came in second to ABC in total viewers and came in _third_ in the most important rating: adults 18-49.



> Among adults 18-49, ABC's 5.6 rating led the way. NBC finished second in the advertisers' favorite demographic with a 4.9, while CBS took third at 4.3.


The 18-49 rating is the only number that matters to the advertisers and anyone who works in TV. Which is why TV people chuckle when CBS trumpets itself as the "most watched" network. Yes, it gets the most number of overall viewers but it's nowhere near the leader in the most important rating. Advertisers don't care what grandma and grandpa are watching and the over-50s form a huge part of the CBS audience. (Although the total viewership number is frequently the number discussed in general articles about "ratings" because it's the number that makes the most sense to John Q. Public - x million watched that show.)

So for last night's ratings, ABC won in both categories: it had the highest 18-49 rating AND had the most total viewers. So ABC ruled the night.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

I read Magnolia's comments as something I stated before: CBS skews old.
The thing that is helping them avoid that on Sunday nites is FOOTBALL.
The thing that hurts them is that once the football overrun ends, and after TAR goes off the schedule, their numbers start taking a dive.
They put TAR on Sundays to try to get more of the 18-49 crowd there and keep them around after football. The problem is that they then make the viewers -- not just PVR users, but viewers in general -- work to stay there and not miss something showing over on another network, i.e., The Simpsons, Desperate Housewives, NBC's Sunday Night Football, etc. Why do I say work? Because you can't be sure what time your program is likely to actually start up. You can camp on CBS, or venture away, go watch something else, and you know, perhaps flip channels to fill time why waiting for something YOU DON'T NORMALLY WATCH on CBS to end so that what you do watch is on. You miss parts of whatever it is, and you find yourself caring less and less about seeing it at all.

FOX did figure it out, NBC finally had also figured it out, and by doing so they've gotten better numbers for it, and more viewer loyalty.

Those that are drinking the CBS koolaid and keep counseling to waste an hour of drive space on a PVR or an hour (shudder) of tape on a VCR are eternal optimists if they don't think eventually this will smack CBS in the viewership.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

jeff125va said:


> Btw, when they say 60 Minutes will start immediately following the game except on the west coast, does that mean that in the Mountain time zone, 60 Minutes starts as early as shortly after 5:00 PM local time?


No, they're ignoring the Mountain time zone entirely when they say that. "60 Minutes" doesn't air immediately following the game there, either (unless the game runs past 8:00 Eastern!) -- if I recall correctly, the local affiliates there usually fill the time with local news and/or a local sports show.

They're also ignoring Alaska and Hawaii, although I guess both those states do have a west coast.

Come to think of it, they're _also_ ignoring Nevada, which is on Pacific time but isn't on the West Coast.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

"In other news, CBS' Nielsen share in the crucial whiner demographic took another hit this Sunday..............."

They're just TV shows. If it's too much trouble to manual record 11-12 or SP the Sunday local news, then it's just not that important.

If there are too many conflicts on Sunday nights, as Rob said, it's easy to cut down on the TV watching a little bit. The viewer that absolutely MUST record Cold Case & DH & ANTM @ FG isn't one that they can count in their ratings #'s to advertisers anyway.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> If there isn't a 4:05/15 game on for me locally (channel 9 in D.C.), will 60 Minutes always start on time, or would they ever join the tail end of the late game(s) and then start 60 Minutes afterwards? Something tells me the answer has to do with whether it's a CBS doubleheader weekend and/or whether the Redskins and/or Ravens are playing at home or the highly unlikely event that they didn't sell out a home game. I always hear the announcers welcome "those of you expecting to see 60 Minutes" but I'm never sure if those are people who are just turning on their TV's, or people who have been watching something on CBS other than football leading up to 7:00.
> 
> Basically I'm wondering if I can cancel ahead of time the manual recordings I have set up from 11:00 - 12:00 to catch any overrun of Without A Trace, if there isn't a 4:00 game on my CBS station, or is it still possible that 60 Minutes will start late?


If WUSA isn't showing a late game, then 60 minutes will start on time. If the Redskins or Ravens are in a late game on WTTG, WUSA can't show the end.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

trainman said:


> No, they're ignoring the Mountain time zone entirely when they say that. "60 Minutes" doesn't air immediately following the game there, either (unless the game runs past 8:00 Eastern!) -- if I recall correctly, the local affiliates there usually fill the time with local news and/or a local sports show.
> 
> They're also ignoring Alaska and Hawaii, although I guess both those states do have a west coast.
> 
> Come to think of it, they're _also_ ignoring Nevada, which is on Pacific time but isn't on the West Coast.


Normally, we in the ignored Mountain time zone delay primetime an hour.
Record the East Coast feed and play it back an hour later.

Sunday nights is a crap shoot.
We've had as much as a normal hour delay to as short as a 4 minute delay,
depending on how long football goes.
I remember once airing the East Coast feed live a couple minutes after 6pm.

If there is time between football and 60 Minutes, we fill with news/sports.
More often than not, weather and sports are the only segments to make it to air.

We do all in our power to let primetime start on time.

phox


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

dswallow said:


> They really should just pswitch to the program at its scheduled time; if the sports leagues can't figure out how to finish a game in a timely manner, they should pay the price.


Yup, but much of the time the games *do* end on time, or very close to it, and the reason for the overrun is the lame post-game analysis and interviews.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> Yup, but much of the time the games *do* end on time, or very close to it, and the reason for the overrun is the lame post-game analysis and interviews.


I can't recall a single time when a 3:00 game has ended at 6:00...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

I still think it's pathetic that Americans are incapable of completing 60 minutes of game play within a 180 minute block of time.


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## Z-Todd (Jun 11, 2005)

Is there any kind of audience overlap with the 4 CBS Sunday programs? In other words, do loyal 60 Minutes viewers stick around for Amazing Race? And do Race viewers enjoy the 2 crime dramas?

(I love Case and Trace, but I have zero use for the other two shows).

My only solution for the East Coasters would be to watch CBS in "live" time, and record the other channels.

Someone mentioned boycotting CBS programs. That really doesn't solve anything; all you are doing is cheating yourself out of something you may enjoy. The way to do it is to boycott EVERY single advertiser on CBS (especially if you are in the 18-49 demo, LoL).


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

dswallow said:


> I still think it's pathetic that Americans are incapable of completing 60 minutes of game play within a 180 minute block of time.


The 60 minutes of game time isn't a problem to complete. It's the standing around and killing time during TV time outs, and other scheduled commercial breaks that run on, and on, and on, that is the issue.

Sitting at the Redskins game last nite I was bored nearly out of my mind while waiting for plays to start. There was just standing around, waiting and waiting, for the game to start back up. The players were left standing and waiting too as they weren't allowed to go back and fire off the next play because the network wasn't back from commercial yet.

The games could easily be done in 90 minutes if the networks didn't have to squeeze in another 100 minutes of commercials for beer, the GAP, GM cars, Honda cars and the like.

Sooner or later the networks will get smart and just turn the entire screen into an advertisement with the sporting event in a pip window. The rest of the screen will be the advertisement. When that happens the sporting events will be over in plenty of time, at least until the network starts crying that the games aren't running long enough for them to sell enough advertising time.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I can't recall a single time when a 3:00 game has ended at 6:00...


They used to be 3:00...aren't they 3:15 these days to help prevent run over _between football games_?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hefe said:


> They used to be 3:00...aren't they 3:15 these days to help prevent run over _between football games_?


If I'm not mistaken, they're back to 3:00, at least on CBS.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If I'm not mistaken, they're back to 3:00, at least on CBS.


Sorry, the Redskins vs. Jaquars game started at 4:15 (eastern)... CBS had the game locally in the D.C. market.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

whats so hard about recording the news after that way your covered for 35 min. I always do it on Football channels


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> whats so hard about recording the news after that way your covered for 35 min. I always do it on Football channels


How nice of you to assume that all viewers should be slaved to CBS and only watching that channel for all of the night.

Too bad that isn't the case and other networks and channels offer better programming (in my opinion, and in the minds of some others) for the other time slots.

For example, there's, uh, this show called Desperate Housewives that my wife likes. There's Family Guy that I like. There's football on NBC. Getting the picture yet?

What's so hard about networks airing shows when they promise? (within reason). Again, there are things outside their control, including the potential end time for football games, baseball games and the like. That's fine, but for gosh sakes, stop trying to tell the eastern part of the country that you'll be airing something at 8pm if there's not a chance in hell it'll make that time slot and is far more likely to be airing at 8:30.

Again, I'd have no issue at all with the rest of the shows in the night being adjusted along the way, say down to 40 minutes or some such. Just tell me -- actually make that tell my DVR, but for those without them, tell them -- when the shows are really going to air.

To get things straight again in the TV viewer and TV network relationship:

1. TV network promises to air shows at specific times, on specific days.
2. TV networks require viewers to tolerate the airing of commercials so that the shows that are aired can be paid for.
3. TV viewers are obligated to deal with commercials during the airing of the shows.
4. TV viewers are obligated to tune in at the times that the shows are shown so they can see the shows they want to see.

Pretty darned simple relationship and rules for how it all is supposed to work, but to me CBS is violating the implied contract they make when they tell the guide data providers, and the TV guide publishers and such that they'll be airing something at a specific time.

For many CBS is doing nothing wrong and this is all much ado about nothing, but for some of us we've had all we can stand and we can't stands no more. We're mad as hell and we just can't take it.

In my house it's all being easily resovled by cutting season passes for CBS shows so they lose the viewership that they previously had. Do they care? Probably not, but then again they get data from TiVo, Nielsen and others that tell them that people aren't watching their product. Hopefully more people will tune them out over time.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bdowell said:


> Sorry, the Redskins vs. Jaquars game started at 4:15 (eastern)... CBS had the game locally in the D.C. market.


Was that when it was scheduled? Because next Sunday, both CBS and Fox have games scheduled from 3-6. And I know that in each of the first four weeks in Minneapolis, when there was a second game on CBS it was scheduled from 3-6 (although, of course, they all ran long). I know this because 60 Minutes was scheduled from 6-7, and I would tune in at 7 to see if it was still running, and thus if I should even bother to check Cold Case.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Was that when it was scheduled? Because next Sunday, both CBS and Fox have games scheduled from 3-6. And I know that in each of the first four weeks in Minneapolis, when there was a second game on CBS it was scheduled from 3-6 (although, of course, they all ran long). I know this because 60 Minutes was scheduled from 6-7, and I would tune in at 7 to see if it was still running, and thus if I should even bother to check Cold Case.


Program schedules may show 3pm (your time zone), 4pm (eastern), but kick offs normally have been at the :15 marks. Meaning 4:15pm, or 3:15pm.

So, yet another part of the NFL and network scheduling "lies" (as implied by someone else in prior comments here) about when their programming/events will start and end.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bdowell said:


> Program schedules may show 3pm (your time zone), 4pm (eastern), but kick offs normally have been at the :15 marks. Meaning 4:15pm, or 3:15pm.


Yes..kickoff is actually at 15 after. Unlike the noon games (in Central time) that start pretty darn close to noon itself.

Actually, looking at the schedule, there's a weird mix of 05 after and 15 after...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/schedule#5


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

From NFL.com site:

```
WEEK 5 
Sunday, Oct. 8 
GAME TIME SIRIUS Radio 
AWAY HOME 
Buffalo at Chicago 1:00 p.m. 130 119 
Cleveland at Carolina 1:00 p.m. 158 144 
Detroit at Minnesota 1:00 p.m. 107 110 
Miami at New England 1:00 p.m. 146 153 
St. Louis at Green Bay 1:00 p.m. 143 147 
Tampa Bay at New Orleans 1:00 p.m. 122 152 
Tennessee at Indianapolis 1:00 p.m.   181 
Washington at N.Y. Giants 1:00 p.m. 125 123 
Kansas City at Arizona 4:05 p.m. 125 110 
N.Y. Jets at Jacksonville 4:05 p.m. 119 117 
Oakland at San Francisco 4:05 p.m. 181 130 
Dallas at Philadelphia 4:15 p.m. 123 147 
Pittsburgh at San Diego 8:15 p.m. 125 130 
Monday, Oct. 9 
GAME TIME SIRIUS Radio 
AWAY HOME 
Baltimore at Denver 8:30 p.m. 125 123
```
From that schedule it would seem that FOX has the double header next weekend, with the Dallas vs. Philly game as the afternoon, national game. The folks in other markets will likely join that game in progress at the end of their games, or vice versa until the last late afternoon game is done.

The other games kick at the :05 marks as noted above. The viewers in those markets will jump right to their game if they aren't set for seeing the national game (Dallas vs. Philly).

At least the weekend will be safe (or should be) for CBS viewers in most markets.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

hefe said:


> Yes..kickoff is actually at 15 after. Unlike the noon games (in Central time) that start pretty darn close to noon itself.


I wasn't quite right with my original statement though -- the kickoffs on the national games/featured games are the ones at 15 after. The ones for non-national/featured games are at 5 after.


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## DebnTexas (Jul 1, 2004)

TAR was 40 minutes delayed here. Honestly, I don't know if I will even bother with it anymore. I shouldn't have to pad an hour, or tape 2 hours of shows, or monitor what time 60 Minutes starts so I know how much to pad. And I really don't want to watch the stupid football that causes the delay anyway. Do they really think the same viewer is watching the football, then 60 minutes, then TAR? Those are 3 diff demographics, right? Young guys, Old guys and Everybody. I'll just go back to relying on Home Makeover, which always starts on time, so I always get to see the ending (but really, seeing people getting moved in is not as fun as finding out who will be eliminated).


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## ewolfr (Feb 12, 2001)

Here is a great site I found a while back that lists what network will have a doubleheader in any given week as well as what game will be on in your area. But make sure to check later in the week before the games come on because stations will change their mind about what game they want to show.

http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

My constitutional right to correct DVR guide data is being violated! Let's ram some legislation through, perhaps attaching it to a homeland security bill!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MacThor said:


> My constitutional right to correct DVR guide data is being violated! Let's ram some legislation through, perhaps attaching it to a homeland security bill!


[pictures CBS executives at Guantanamo Bay]

[smiles]


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> [pictures CBS executives at Guantanamo Bay]
> 
> [smiles]


Not a bad plan, though I'd be just as happy if they all had to go play on Survivor Island and were stuck trying to make fire for the first 3 days.

Actually, that potential show is now (C) Copyright/Patent pending by yours truly. I better stick up for my intellectual property before the suits at CBS really decide they should take the idea and run with it.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i thought ratings were determined by sweeps months? (isn't that why we are forced to watch such classics as Earthquake 11.5...the end) If so, why do they care about ratings in off months? 

And if the take a mix of the months, then why bother with sweeps?


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

I am a big football fan, and don't have much else to worry about taping on Sunday nights so it is not a big deal for me to go over. I empathize, though, with those who have conflicts.

The reality is they should not be managing things in such a way. This is very 1970 of CBS to be managing it this way, and they are the only ones to have these kinds of major issues. I was happy to see the Redskins / Jaguars game go into overtime, but they need to have a schedule set up in such a way to accomodate such things. Backing up 60 minutes right to the end of what they hope to be a regular length game is just dumb these days. I know they do it to carry over audience, but as more people become dependant on scheduling, you just can't do things like that. 

If they had a 30 minute post-game buffer that they filled with the NFL studio crew, or even a 30 minute slot they turned over to the local affiliates for a news break, they could be flexible with it, and cover almost any situation. Worst case you are a few minutes off and you absorb that in the rest of the schedule with breaks.

I suspect the number of people who watch Sunday Afternoon Football, flow into 60 minutes and then into TAR is not huge, so you have to have consideration for the result of your audience.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

bdowell said:


> I wasn't quite right with my original statement though -- the kickoffs on the national games/featured games are the ones at 15 after. The ones for non-national/featured games are at 5 after.


Actually, the difference is which network has the doubleheader that week. Games that are going to be airing on that network will have kickoffs at 1:00 and 4:15 (Eastern). Games that are going to be airing on the other network will have kickoffs at 1:00 and 4:05.

Why 4:05 and not 4:00? So the game announcers can do 5 minutes of pre-game stuff before that game starts. (For the 1:00 games, that 5 minutes happens at the end of the network pre-game show, i.e., at 12:55.)


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## bugmenever (Feb 4, 2007)

The Tvio schedule needs to be updated in a timely manner with the new schedule. The networks are responsible for reporting the "traffic". 

What we need to do is band together and WRITE to the individual shows stating clearly and politely that; 

A) we really really want to watch the show.

B) when we can't watch the show because the schedule was not correct, we can download a "pirate copy" from the internet. 

C) the pirate copy, while invoncient to download, is nice because it is sanatized from all advertising. 

D) we really don't mind watching the ads. (don't mention that you might have activated and use the 30 sec skip hack) 

eMail advertisers your message as well. (hey, I tried to watch the show you advertise in but because "they" do not broadcast using the schedule advertise, I miss that show. Bummer that your ad spend is wasted every week. I dont mind watching the ads.) 

I think this is our best chance of getting a solution, hit them in the advertisers who will apply pressure to get the schedule fixed. 

/kelly
Carbondale, IL


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Oh good - another year old thread resurrected.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

JLucPicard said:


> Oh good - another year old thread resurrected.


Why is that wrong? Is there an unstated shelf-live on thread topics?

Lighten up Francis.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i've padded Shark all fall and actually needed the full hour once.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

newsposter said:


> i've padded Shark all fall and actually needed the full hour once.


Ditto on Amazing Race. (at least I needed about 50 minutes pad)


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## TivoZorro (Jul 16, 2000)

I find it interesting that CBS has the Sunday schedule set for this week as:

60 Minutes - 7:30 to 8:30
Amazing Race - 8:30 to 9:30
Cold Case - 9:30 to 10:30
Shark - 10:30 to 11:30

I'm still going to pad Shark because sometimes a half hour is not enough. Wonder if they are pushing back the schedule, in part because of the writers strike, so they don't lose anymore TV viewers. I think they ought to keep it place permanently, at least when they have the doubleheader games.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, I'll just say what I always say in these threads. And since I've already said it in THIS thread... 



Rob Helmerichs said:


> There are just too many shows on Sunday nights to screw around with CBS. I have a season pass to Cold Case. When I watch it, if there's no Cold Case at the beginning of the recording, I delete it. That makes it simple (and cuts down a bit on my TV watching).
> 
> NBC pioneered intelligent (that is, not mentally retarded) Sunday night schedulng the last couple of years they had the NFL--they would air an episode of Dateline tailored to fit the time left after the game ended. Now, Fox has finally figured it out. CBS probably can't do that because their 60 Minutes crew can't handle live television.


The only thing to add is, I have since dropped my SP to Cold Case, and no longer watch anything on CBS Sundays. Which is a shame, because CC is a good show, but it's not worth the hassle.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, I'll just say what I always say in these threads. And since I've already said it in THIS thread...
> 
> The only thing to add is, I have since dropped my SP to Cold Case, and no longer watch anything on CBS Sundays. Which is a shame, because CC is a good show, but it's not worth the hassle.


what hassle? set it up once and be done with it. I have in the last week watched 3 of the last 4 CC shows.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> what hassle? set it up once and be done with it. I have in the last week watched 3 of the last 4 CC shows.


...except (at least in Minnesota) the start is almost always delayed during football season. So I have to pad it, and then make sure it's not conflicting with other shows. Too much hassle...especially in recent years when Sunday nights were absolutely PACKED with good shows. This year it's more of a wasteland, but I've completely fallen out of the habit of making an effort to watch Cold Case.

CBS Sunday is not TiVo-friendly. As near as I can tell, it's only friendly to people who stare at CBS all night (or who live on the West Coast, where football doesn't interfere with Prime Time).


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I set up the season pass, pad it appropriately and forget about it. If you're concerned about messing up another scheduled recording then the priority listing picks for you. You may miss some but I would think not all. Some better then none?

Of course with three DVR's in my family room, I don't have conflicts


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I just pad TAR an hour and forget about it. Something else on too? Well, that's what dual tuners are for. 

Much ado about nothing in my book.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i dont see rob's equipment list but it's obvious he needs a free hr20/1 for 2 more tuners  where's milo?


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Since this old thread was bumped....

I'll just re-add my comments that CBS has become the network that doesn't exist to me. Unless there's a football game that involves my own favorite team, I just don't even bother tuning into CBS -- FOR THE ENTIRE WEEK.

If they can't be smart enough to set a reasonable schedule that doesn't involve continued programming over-runs, then again, I don't need to watch their programming.

I said it, I meant it, and I've been doing just that. So my DVRs act as if CBS doesn't exist and I'm happy to live with that, even if it means missing programming I might have enjoyed. If the programs are that good, I'll get DVDs of same, or wait for those programs to show up on another network in repeats/syndication.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

The problem is, 60 Minutes is still highly rated and traditionally on at 7PM. They get HUGE ratings on 60 Minutes because of the overrun. The obvious solution would be for CBS to do what Fox does and during football season schedule a Post Game show after football and start their lineup at 8PM. Have 60 Minutes start at 8PM and then CC and Shark (or TAR if that is rated higher than either of those) at 9 and 10. ON weekends where they don't have a late game, just fill in with reruns or specials. Does CBS fear that people will defect their channel after the games rather than stick around for 60 Minutes?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Does CBS fear that people will defect their channel after the games rather than stick around for 60 Minutes?


But wouldn't that be after the 60 Minutes anchors' bedtime?


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But wouldn't that be after the 60 Minutes anchors' bedtime?


And a huge chunk of their viewership, too. Hence the reason they don't mess with that time, other than what's caused by the overruns.


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## grant33 (Jun 11, 2003)

I didn't read the whole thread so forgive me if it's been mentioned already, but CBS is showing a playoff game across the nation at 4:30 eastern this Sunday 1/6. Make sure you pad.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> And a huge chunk of their viewership, too. Hence the reason they don't mess with that time, other than what's caused by the overruns.


While it's a funny statement, and 60 Minutes definitely skews to an older demo, I think that is completely overblown. Do you think they would get any LESS of an audience if it was on at 8PM? I highly doubt it.

But that said, it's been on for what, 30 years at 7PM on Sundays, I suppose they are afraid to mess with success.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> While it's a funny statement, and 60 Minutes definitely skews to an older demo, I think that is completely overblown.


I was going for the funny. My smilie usage skills apparently aren't as finely honed as they need to be.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

trainman said:


> You mean the CBS announcers were lying all those times they said, promptly at 7:00 Eastern, "'60 Minutes' will air _in its entirety_ immediately following the game, except on the West Coast"?
> 
> I never watched CBS's Sunday night programming as a kid, but I did watch NBC's, and I do remember their lineup getting delayed by football -- more so than in many other markets, since we had a home team in the NFC (which usually got blacked out back then, but that usually meant the CBS affiliate got a 1:00 game and the NBC affiliate had to take a 4:00 game).
> 
> In 1985-86 when it was the 7:00 Sunday show, they made a few 15-minute episodes of "Punky Brewster" for NBC to plug in at the last minute if football ran late, but I don't remember that actually happening; I assume it would have caused bizarre problems for the sales and traffic departments if some markets were seeing a 30-minute "Punky Brewster" and others got a different episode for only 15 minutes. (And therefore, they ended up running two 15-minute episodes back to back in some weeks later in the season.)


i used to watch NBC too and i remember a few games that messed the schedule big time in 1992-97 like chargers chiefs in 92 oilers jagaurs in 95 steelers cardinals colts bills and seahawks chiefs and broncos raiders in 97 colts jets in 95 bengals rams in 90


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

has nba every caused issues with abc? just asking


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

What's the record for the oldest thread that has been bumped and how close is this one to that?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

danderson400 said:


> has nba every caused issues with abc? just asking


Not that I know of, as I don't remember ABC ever airing Sunday afternoon NBA games, and any night game would use up the entire network prime time block (except on Sundays, but they would probably schedule the game for an 8:00 Eastern start, so there would not be a problem with airing something from 7 to 8).

ABC did have the occasional problem with a NASCAR race running long, but the policy was, after a certain time, the remainder of the race would be moved to one of the ESPN channels.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I've stopped watching The Amazing Race due to this issue. 

Yes, I could pad, but then I have one tuner tied up recording stuff I do not want to watch (end of game & 60 Minutes). I want to use that tuner for one hour and no more. I have other shows I want to record as well and it irritated me too much to have to give them up just so I could catch all of TAR.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Jstkiddn said:


> I've stopped watching The Amazing Race due to this issue.
> 
> Yes, I could pad, but then I have one tuner tied up recording stuff I do not want to watch (end of game & 60 Minutes). I want to use that tuner for one hour and no more. I have other shows I want to record as well and it irritated me too much to have to give them up just so I could catch all of TAR.


Amazing Race is now on Fridays


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> Amazing Race is now on Fridays


I think I may have known that, but I eventually stopped caring. If I remember, I may try again next season.


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## danderson400 (Mar 6, 2015)

trainman said:


> You mean the CBS announcers were lying all those times they said, promptly at 7:00 Eastern, "'60 Minutes' will air _in its entirety_ immediately following the game, except on the West Coast"?
> 
> I never watched CBS's Sunday night programming as a kid, but I did watch NBC's, and I do remember their lineup getting delayed by football -- more so than in many other markets, since we had a home team in the NFC (which usually got blacked out back then, but that usually meant the CBS affiliate got a 1:00 game and the NBC affiliate had to take a 4:00 game).
> 
> In 1985-86 when it was the 7:00 Sunday show, they made a few 15-minute episodes of "Punky Brewster" for NBC to plug in at the last minute if football ran late, but I don't remember that actually happening; I assume it would have caused bizarre problems for the sales and traffic departments if some markets were seeing a 30-minute "Punky Brewster" and others got a different episode for only 15 minutes. (And therefore, they ended up running two 15-minute episodes back to back in some weeks later in the season.)


Bumping up this thread a little bit- since it involves the NFL and "Punky Brewster"- I do remember one case, in 1985 when NBC was carrying a Raiders/Chargers game- It was in San Diego- and the game ran so long, that they preempted "Punky Brewster". The very next week the same thing happened- the Chargers/Broncos game ran late- and they preempted "Punky Brewster" as well! i remember Bob Costas in the studio making the point about the preemptions the next week on NBC's pregame show- he had to address it after parents of kids complained about the preemptions.

FOX has it right these days- they show the end of the other game if needed, then they fill with highlights until 8:00.


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