# TIVO changes its Service Plan business model -- again...



## JFalc (May 3, 2005)

Effective today...

New Tivo Service Plan... I call it the 'bait and switch..

http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoservicepaymentplanstermsandconditions.html

Bestbuy, vanns, J&R and everyone else will be dropping their Premiere prices to $99 --- but the customer wont realize that the service went up to $19.99 per month.

Ouch.

This is going to be a p/r nightmare.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

Old news sorry, been discussed already in another thread on the forum.


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## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

Resist said:


> Old news sorry, been discussed already in another thread on the forum.


Please provide the link to the other thread.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

Almost bought one last night to have as a spare, but 6th ave site was hosed. Didn't realize the new terms. The appealing box price isn't quite so appealing.

There was a previous thread about a free premiere and $19.95/mo for 24 months? Not sure the higher monthly fees are going to grab new customers even with the reduced price on the hardware. That $240 a year in sub fees is a big gotcha.

TiVo needs an influx of new customers, but this only moves the money around. It doesn't make it more appealing and it might be less appealing.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

That's okay. The new pricing is only until 31 December. 

At least that's what is shows on tivo.com front page. 

Special holiday offer. Ends Dec. 31.
99.99 + 19.99/mo. 
Box and service bundle. 1-yr commitment.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Wow...another awful move by Tivo.

Don't you realize that if you can't easily answer the question, "How much does Tivo cost?", you're going to scare away potential customers? Nobody wants to sit through a lecture or read a legal document about pricing tiers when they're considering trying a new product.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I think the easy answer here is that the Premiere is not selling well so they are desperate to move the boxes. Lowering the price and hiding the service fee jump gets product out the door, at least until the customer discovers the new terms and returns the box.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Since you can never (apparently) reduce the subscription rate from $19.95, it would seem that eventually people will tire of that price and drop service in favor of a cableco DVR. So over the long term this will result in significant subscriber attrition.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Is there anything to stop someone from buying a $99 Premier and then transferring monthly service from an old S2 to it?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

pdhenry said:


> Since you can never (apparently) reduce the subscription rate from $19.95, it would seem that eventually people will tire of that price and drop service in favor of a cableco DVR. So over the long term this will result in significant subscriber attrition.


Unbundled monthly service is still available. With this new deal it seems you have to pay the bundled service fee of $20/month for 1st year, and then you can switch to another service plan such as the monthly $12.95:


> 2.2 For all other TiVo boxes activated on or after November 14, 2010, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year), you may purchase an annual plan for one (1) year of TiVo Service for an upfront fee of $129, or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399.


MSD pricing still applies as well:


> 8. The $12.95 monthly, annual and Product Lifetime Subscription service plans are eligible for the Multi-Service Discount. See full terms of the Multi-Service Discount for details.


i.e. I think the only real change is the $99 box + 1 year $20/month service bundle was added.


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## Xecuter2 (Jul 21, 2008)

So the only way to get product lifetime service now is to order from Tivo?


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

but if you were going to buy Lifetime, wouldnt' it still be $99?


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Mike-Mike said:


> but if you were going to buy Lifetime, wouldnt' it still be $99?


No.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

moyekj said:


> Unbundled monthly service is still available. With this new deal it seems you have to pay the bundled service fee of $20/month for 1st year, and then you can switch to another service plan such as the monthly $12.95:
> 
> MSD pricing still applies as well:
> 
> i.e. I think the only real change is the $99 box + 1 year $20/month service bundle was added.


"3.3 For all other TiVo boxes" I think this refers to full retail price boxes. So yes, those don't have to pay $19.95 for eternity. Reading all the mumbo jumbo - pricing stucture puts me to sleep.

This convoluted pricing structure is simply going to drive away most new potential customers. The $99 box sale is getting oooohs and aaaahs all over the net, but nobody is mentioning the newest subscripition plans that go with the great newly priced box. The new sub rates that basically contradict any savings at all.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

pdhenry said:


> Since you can never (apparently) reduce the subscription rate from $19.95, it would seem that eventually people will tire of that price and drop service in favor of a cableco DVR. So over the long term this will result in significant subscriber attrition.


????
You wait out the promotional period and then cancel the subscription and re-subscribe at the then current rate which will undoubtedly be less than $19.95.mo. If you already have a Tivo at full price, you'd get the MSD rate on the premiere.


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## Krstofer (Jan 30, 2002)

I was just on the site because I was going to buy two premiers for $0 plus subscription, but if I get two then its FORTY DOLLARS A MONTH! Are they serious with that? I remember when Tivo was 5.95 a month for as many boxes as you wanted. 

Ever since I had to move away from my Sony dTivo and go with Cable I have been wanting to get Tivo again. I thought this was the time, but now it seems even further away. I'll keep my crappy cablevision box for 5.95 a month.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> ????
> You wait out the promotional period and then cancel the subscription and re-subscribe at the then current rate which will undoubtedly be less than $19.95.mo. If you already have a Tivo at full price, you'd get the MSD rate on the premiere.


Given the strange decisions Tivo makes to drive customers away, I don't think it's safe to say the price will "Undoubtedly" be less.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Krstofer said:


> I remember when Tivo was 5.95 a month for as many boxes as you wanted.


Standalone TiVos were never "5.95 a month for as many boxes as you wanted."


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## csm10495 (Nov 15, 2008)

hold on, after the initial agreement ends on the new service plan, does the box have lifetime? or do you have to then pay to get a service plan at regular price?


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## robdam1001 (Mar 19, 2005)

This really blows; f#ck TiVo.


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## davidndallas (Jan 7, 2006)

All I know is that being a current customer, if TIVO doesn't allow me to add lifetime to my new Tivo unite I purchased on the 13th, before they changed the service plans and after I confirmed it with Tivo support directly on the 13th - then I will be returning it and telling all my friends to not purchase Tivo. Moranic PR move on Tivo's part!


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## ECrispy (Nov 13, 2010)

I'm new to Tivo and purchased on Nov.13, I am *this* close to canceling like many others and this whole experience has left a bad impression.

If Tivo does not let me add lifetime service (for 399, or using the coupon for 299) then I will return it (forced to pay shipping) and never again consider Tivo, and tell everyone I know to do the same.

This is a massive bait and switch and I feel sorry for those people who will get duped into locked in $20/mo contracts when they thought they were getting a deal. Tivo has great brand recognition and they are trying to exploit that.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

davidndallas said:


> All I know is that being a current customer, if TIVO doesn't allow me to add lifetime to my new Tivo unite I purchased on the 13th, before they changed the service plans and after I confirmed it with Tivo support directly on the 13th - then I will be returning it and telling all my friends to not purchase Tivo. Moranic PR move on Tivo's part!


I think TiVo will honer the Lifetime Service as people get their $99 TPs that were ordered on the 13th, I not going to call TiVo as somebody already has and were told they would be able to get Lifetime Service, lets stop hitting on TiVo over this until we get our $99 TP and get/not get the lifetime on them.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

Copied & Pasted, direct from TiVo:

TiVo Payment Plans
UPDATED NOVEMBER 14, 2010

Please note that without a subscription to the TiVo service, your TiVo DVR will not work! Please see Section 7 of the TiVo Service Agreement.

The following TiVo Payment Plans (the "service plan(s)") are subject to and incorporated into the TiVo Service Agreement (the "service agreement"). Except as otherwise set forth in, and subject to, the service agreement, these service plans govern both your subscription to and receipt of the TiVo service and any TiVo DVR you may have received in connection with any service plan. Pricing, terms, and conditions of the TiVo service are subject to change at any time.

BY SELECTING AND ACTIVATING UNDER ONE OF THE FOLLOWING PAYMENT PLANS OR PROMOTIONAL PAYMENT PLANS, YOU REPRESENT THAT YOU ARE OF LEGAL AGE TO ACCEPT TIVO INC.'S OFFER TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE TIVO SERVICE AND THAT YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND FULLY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE PAYMENT PLANS AND THE TIVO SERVICE AGREEMENT.

For service plans activated before May 15, 2008, see these prior terms & conditions.
For service plans activated between May 15, 2008 and March 1, 2010, see these prior terms & conditions.
For service plans activated between March 2, 2010 and November 13, 2010, see these prior terms & conditions.

TIVO PAYMENT PLANS

1.At the time of activation of a service plan, you will be required to commit to the TiVo service for a minimum of one (1) year. You can pay for a subscription to the TiVo service on a monthly, annual, or prepaid basis. Promotional Pricing may also be available from time-to-time.
2.You may purchase a subscription to the TiVo Service in one of the following ways:

2.1 For TiVo Premiere boxes purchased on or after November 14, 2010:

2.1.1 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box and subscription at the same time directly from TiVo, you may select one of the following options:

(i) You may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle with

(a) a box fee of $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box and
(b) a monthly service fee of $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year); or
.(ii) You may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle on a monthly basis with

(a) no upfront cost for the TiVo Premiere box (an instant savings of $299 off MSRP) or a reduced upfront box fee of $199 (an instant savings of $300 off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box and

(b) a monthly service fee of $19.99 a month with a two (2) year commitment (renews monthly after two years); or
.(iii) You may purchase a TiVo box at the full MSRP (no instant savings) and subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year) or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399.
.2.1.2 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box from a third party retailer at $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box, you may only subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year).
.2.2 For all other TiVo boxes activated on or after November 14, 2010, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year), you may purchase an annual plan for one (1) year of TiVo Service for an upfront fee of $129, or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399.
.3.A 30-Day Money Back Guarantee applies to all initial activations of TiVo service. See full terms of TiVo's 30-Day Money Back Guarantee for complete details.
4.An early termination fee applies to all monthly service plans as follows: 
4.1 If you subscribed to the TiVo service at $12.95 a month, you can cancel your subscription to the TiVo service at any time, but if you do so before the end of your initial one (1) year commitment, you will be assessed an amount equal to the amount of monthly subscription fees remaining on your service commitment, except as permitted by the 30-Day Money Back Guarantee.
4.2 If you subscribe to the TiVo service on a $19.99 a month plan, you can cancel your subscription to the TiVo service at any time, but if you do so before the end of your initial one (1) or two (2) year commitment, as applicable, you will be assessed an amount equal to the lesser of 
(a) the amount of monthly subscription fees remaining on your service commitment or
(b) the full retail value of the TiVo Premiere box (less the cost of any upfront payment made by you, if any) minus the difference between your service bundle plans monthly fee and $12.95 for each month of your subscription that you fulfilled, except as permitted by the 30-Day Money Back Guarantee.
..5.No early termination fee applies to prepaid service plans (including Annual and Product Lifetime Subscriptions), but no refunds will be paid for cancellations of any prepaid service plan except as permitted under TiVo's 30-Day Money Back Guarantee.
6.After the end of the commitment associated with your monthly service plan, TiVo will continue to charge you on a monthly basis at the then-current monthly service plan rate, subject to the terms of the TiVo Service Agreement.
7.After the end of your annual commitment, TiVo will continue to charge you on an annual basis at the then-current annual rate. You will receive a notification approximately 30 days prior to your renewal date to notify you of the renewal. Your credit card on file with us will be charged the then-annual renewal rate on your renewal date. You will have up to 30 days after the renewal date to change or cancel your service plan and receive a full refund.
8.The $12.95 monthly, annual and Product Lifetime Subscription service plans are eligible for the Multi-Service Discount. See full terms of the Multi-Service Discount for details.
9.Purchases of TiVo DVR and TiVo service plans from http://www.tivo.com cannot be combined with any other offers or discounts, including any TiVo mail-in rebates. TiVo Service Gift Subscriptions, including TiVo Service Gift Cards purchased at Best Buy, cannot be used in conjunction with any purchase of a TiVo DVR.
10.When you purchase a TiVo DVR and a two (2) year bundle plan together from http://www.tivo.com, the parts portion only of your Limited Warranty for your TiVo DVR will be extended for the term of your initial two (2) year commitment (excludes renewals). For all other service plans, TiVo makes no warranties or representations aside form the manufacturers Limited Warranty. TiVo may also offer from time to time two (2) year and three (3) year extended warranty plans for purchase ninety (90) days from the earlier of the DVR purchase date or TiVo service activation date.
11.Product Lifetime Subscription includes a subscription to the TiVo service for the useable life of the TiVo DVR you buy  not the life of the subscriber  and may not be transferred to another TiVo DVR. A Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR it is associated with in case of ownership transfer of that TiVo DVR. For more information on Product Lifetime Subscriptions, please refer to the TiVo Service Agreement. Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary. TiVo makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the TiVo DVR (aside from the manufacturer's Limited Warranty).
12.If you fail to pay any amounts owing to us in connection with this agreement, TiVo reserves the right to pursue such unpaid amounts and you will remain liable to us for all charges under this agreement and all the costs we incur to collect these charges, including, without limitation, collection agency fees, reasonable attorneys' fees, and arbitration or court costs.
..


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

Also Copied & Pasted, direct from TiVo:

TiVo&#174; Multi-service discount service agreement
Updated November 2010

Introduction

TiVo Inc. ("TiVo") offers certain registered account holders of subscriptions to the TiVo service or the TiVo Plus service, as further specified herein, a multi-service discount (the "MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT") on new TiVo service subscription activations only under the following terms and conditions. This agreement explains the terms and conditions that will apply to your eligibility for, and receipt of, MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT in connection with your use of the TiVo service or the TiVo Plus service, and constitutes a legally binding agreement between you and TiVo. By using the TiVo service, you agree to all the terms and conditions in this agreement ("Agreement").

Your TiVo&#174; or TiVo&#174; Plus Service Agreement

This Agreement specifically incorporates into it, and is governed by, the terms of your TiVo&#174; Digital Video Recorder&#8212;Service Agreement (the "TiVo Service Agreement") or your TiVo Plus Service Agreement, whichever is applicable, and the terms of your TiVo Payment Plan.

Multi-Service Discount qualifications

1.Initial Qualification. You must be the registered account holder of a current paid Monthly, Annual, Prepaid, TiVo Package, or Product Lifetime Subscription to the TiVo service, as further defined below, to qualify for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT (a "Qualifying Subscription"): 
1.TiVo Service or TiVo Plus Service Subscription: A Qualifying Subscription must be a current Monthly, Annual, Prepaid, TiVo Package, or Product Lifetime Subscription to the TiVo service or the TiVo Plus service, as further defined below, made directly with TiVo (as opposed to with a third party service provider such as DIRECTV) in order to qualify for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. For instance, DIRECTV DVRs with the TiVo service are ineligible to qualify as a Qualifying Subscription or to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.
2.Prepaid, Monthly or Annual Service Subscription or TiVo Package. If you are the registered account holder of a paid Prepaid, Monthly or Annual Service Subscription or TiVo Package Subscription to the TiVo service or the TiVo Plus service, your subscription must be un-cancelled and in good standing, either paid on a Prepaid, Monthly or Annual basis. Promotional TiVo service subscriptions (e.g. free or discounted TiVo service rates), unless otherwise designated in the terms and conditions for such promotional subscriptions, are not eligible to be Qualifying Subscriptions.
3.Product Lifetime Subscription. If you are the registered account holder of a Product Lifetime Subscription, your Product Lifetime Subscription must be fully paid and in good standing. Your TiVo DVR to which the Product Lifetime Subscription is attached must have called into the TiVo service or the TiVo Plus service within the last 180 days to remain eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.
.2.General eligibility. In addition to the requirements for Initial Qualification detailed above, the following additional General Eligibility requirements also must be complied with in their entirety: 
1.MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT for New Subscriptions Only. Beginning July 19, 2007, the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT will ONLY be applied to eligible new TiVo service subscriptions (defined below). The MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT cannot be applied to existing TiVo service subscriptions. For purposes of clarity, this means, for example, that if you have an existing full-priced Monthly Subscription to the TiVo service and then purchase a Prepaid Subscription to the TiVo service, the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT cannot be applied to your existing full-priced Monthly Subscription, only future new eligible TiVo service subscriptions (defined below). Existing TiVo service subscriptions are not eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. However, TiVo service subscriptions currently receiving the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT shall continue to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT as long as there remains a Qualifying Subscription on the same TiVo customer account.
2.Same Registered Account Holder. The TiVo DVRs associated will all new TiVo service subscriptions activations eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT must be registered to the same TiVo customer account.
3.Same TiVo Service Address. The TiVo DVRs associated will all new TiVo service subscription activations eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT must be located and calling in from the same TiVo service (or TiVo Plus service) address as the Qualifying Subscription.
4.Limited number of TiVo Service Subscriptions. The MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT is limited to a maximum of five (5) additional TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscriptions per TiVo customer account. For example, a registered account holder with one Qualifying Subscription may add up to an additional five (5) new TiVo service subscriptions activations at the reduced MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT price to his or her account. The sixth (6th) additional TiVo service subscription would not qualify for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT and would be charged at the full TiVo service subscription price.
5.Compliance With Service Agreement. All terms of each of the registered account holder's TiVo Service Agreements or TiVo Plus Service Agreements and TiVo Service Payment Plans, as applicable, must be fully complied with at all times to be eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.
..Subscriptions Eligible for Multi-Service Discount

1.Discounted Monthly TiVo Service Fee. The MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT reduces the $12.95 Monthly TiVo service subscription fee to $9.95 per month, and the $129 Annual TiVo service subscription fee to $99 per year, while in compliance with all applicable Initial Qualification and General Eligibility requirements on new eligible TiVo service subscription activations (not existing TiVo service subscriptions). Only new full-priced $12.95 monthly TiVo service or Annual TiVo service subscription activations are eligible to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.
2.TiVo Service Gift Subscriptions and Gift Cards. TiVo service or TiVo Plus service Gift Subscriptions and Gift Cards can be applied to new TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscription activations eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. The registered account holder&#8217;s credit card used to pay for the TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscription qualifying for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT will not be charged until after the gift subscription's balance is exhausted.
3.TiVo Service Cancellation. If the registered account holder's Qualifying Subscription is cancelled or otherwise becomes ineligible, the oldest eligible TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscription on the account shall become the registered account holder&#8217;s Qualifying Subscription and will no longer receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. TiVo service subscriptions currently receiving the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT shall continue to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT as long as their remains a Qualifying Subscription in accordance with these terms on the same TiVo customer account. TiVo service subscriptions which have paid the annual fee in advance shall remain at the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT rate until the expiration of their current prepaid period in the event such registered account&#8217;s Qualifying Subscription is cancelled.

TIVO RESERVES THE RIGHT TO IMMEDIATELY SUSPEND OR TERMINATE YOUR TIVO SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION AND/OR YOUR USE OF THE MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT IF YOU GIVE TIVO INACCURATE OR INCOMPLETE INFORMATION OR IF YOU ARE NO LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR THE MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.

4.TiVo Service Transfer. All transfers of TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscriptions will be governed by the terms of the TiVo Service Agreement and your TiVo Service Payment Plan. Any TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscription receiving the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT must remain in compliance with all the applicable Initial Qualification and General Eligibility requirements of this Agreement to continue to qualify to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.
5.TiVo Service Reactivation. All reactivations of TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscriptions will be governed by the terms of the TiVo Service Agreement or TiVo Plus Service Agreement, as applicable, and your TiVo Service Payment Plan. Any TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscription reactivation will be eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT as long as the TiVo service or TiVo Plus service subscription that is reactivated meets all the applicable Initial Qualification and General Eligibility requirements of this Agreement including the activation of a new TiVo service subscription and commitment.
6.Changes to the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. TiVo reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to increase or decrease the amount of the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT or discontinue the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT or change any of the terms, restrictions, or conditions for eligibility for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT at any time, for any reason. If you are dissatisfied with any such changes to the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT and/or the TiVo service and/or the TiVo Plus service, you may immediately cancel your use of the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT and/or the TiVo service and/or the TiVo Plus service (subject to any applicable termination fees, if any) as provided in the TiVo Service Agreement or TiVo Plus Service Agreement or TiVo Service Payment Plan, as applicable.
.BY USING THE TIVO SERVICE AND/OR THE TIVO PLUS SERVICE AND RECEIVING THE MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT, I REPRESENT THAT I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THIS ENTIRE AGREEMENT AND THE APPLICABLE SERVICE AGREEMENT, AND I AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND THE APPLICABLE SERVICE AGREEMENT AS STATED ABOVE AND INCORPORATED INTO THIS AGREEMENT.
.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

For the COMPLETE listing of TiVo Policies and service agreements:

http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/index.html

I'm not going to post any further C&P entries, so if you want to read more, please use the link above.

Make sure to tell any friends and/or family that may be considering buying, and/or those who have already bought (on of after 11/13/2010), that serious changes have been made.

Don't let TiVo be the one to ruin you & your's holiday season.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

man, remain calm citizens.

the deal is premire for 99$ and 19.95 a month for just one year. Then you go to whatever pricing plans are out then.

so you basically pay an extra 7$ a month for 12 months (assuming it is first TiVo).

So you buy a premiere for 99$+84$ = 183$
and pay some of that over the year. Now some might have gone for a multi year prepay plan or lifetime to lower their long term costs and this would not be the deal for them.

Obviously this deal is aimed at luring in new TiVo subscribers on their first box.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

lessd said:


> <snip>...lets stop hitting on TiVo over this until we get our $99 TP and get/not get the lifetime on them.


Well, just so you know, I feel an obligation to warn those who aren't yet aware, as well as inform those who plan to, or are considering, purchasing.

I'm also not in the financial position to get lifetime service (right away) when the ordered units arrive. With two units, I'd need to do one in December, and the other in January.

That puts a slightly different perspective on just how much the new policy scares & infuriates me.


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> man, remain calm citizens.
> 
> the deal is premire for 99$ and 19.95 a month for just one year. Then you go to whatever pricing plans are out then.
> 
> ...


But one of the big problems is that TiVo is not offering any options for longer prepays or for lifetime on the discounted units. You can now ONLY get a one-year sub at $19.99 per month.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> man, remain calm citizens.
> 
> the deal is premire for 99$ and 19.95 a month for just one year. Then you go to whatever pricing plans are out then.
> 
> ...


I think the concern is more is there anything in the store that tells people this?

If I had been considering a TiVo and knew what it cost and then saw one on sale for $99 in the store I would assume it was just a sale and the same rates applied. Of course you would get home and find out otherwise especially since BB doesn't mention in their ad that the price is contingent on the $19.99 service plan. Also this means those that might get giftcards to BB for Christmas and decide to buy a TiVo would have to wail until January to buy.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I still have an offer online to get the Premiere for $269 and transfer my lifetime from my Series 2 (that I'm not using) for $199.

I think I'd rather get the 99 +20/mo deal.


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## Augeas (Apr 14, 2002)

The $99 price plus 19.99/month is still less than buying a premier outright ($340.00 verses $420.00 (299.99 + 9.95/month for a year)). 

The $0 upfront plus 19.99 for 2 years is only 480.00, so current pricing of 299.99 + 120 + 120 is $540.00...

The only plan better than what they are offering is their plan for current subscribers... $269 + 199.00 for lifetime $469 total.

Do the math, hope that sales people can do math and properly explain as well, and hope that people finally get it and cut their dependance on cable tv boxes. 

Tivo is offering a really good deal...it is essentially a black friday level deal for new subs and comparable to Google TV deals (299.00 for sony) that do not include cable box replacement or live TV recording. Now they just need to figure out how to market it as well as Google or Apple can which has been their problem for 13 years. Everyone calls their Cable box DVR a Tivo and no one that has a cable box understands the additional value that Tivo provides.


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

Just read over the new MSD terms. Am I reading it correctly that there is no longer a MSD for product lifetime? What a nightmare. If I can't activate the Premiere I ordered with $199 (I got that offer) or $299 lifetime, back it goes.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

TiVo has also removed the "Change TiVo TSN" option from their website.

You now have to call-in to get that done. I'm going to assume that they have imposed restrictions, and you will have to get approval (beyond simply asking them to do it).

http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/index.html


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

tcfcameron said:


> TiVo has also removed the "Change TiVo TSN" option from their website.
> 
> You now have to call-in to get that done. I'm going to assume that they have imposed restrictions, and you will have to get approval (beyond simply asking them to do it).
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/index.html


I wonder if they will also be clamping down on transfers between accounts. I bought a Premiere with the idea of subbing it and then selling off my lifetimed HD at roughly break even. If they stop allowing that, cutting the value of my unit by hundreds of dollars, then I really have no reason to deal with TiVo again.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't see why they would do that - they pitched the Premiere lifetime upgrades to current S3/HD owners by letting us keep lifetime on the existing units, and specifically said we could do whatever we wanted with them.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ZeoTiVo said:


> man, remain calm citizens.
> 
> the deal is premire for 99$ and 19.95 a month for just one year. Then you go to whatever pricing plans are out then.


The problem is that there is no other pricing plan out there in the new service agreement, so you're rolling the dice that lifetime will be there after the year is up. All they say is that your current plan continues month-to-month.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

innocentfreak said:


> I think the concern is more is there anything in the store that tells people this?
> 
> If I had been considering a TiVo and knew what it cost and then saw one on sale for $99 in the store I would assume it was just a sale and the same rates applied. Of course you would get home and find out otherwise especially since BB doesn't mention in their ad that the price is contingent on the $19.99 service plan. Also this means those that might get giftcards to BB for Christmas and decide to buy a TiVo would have to wail until January to buy.


Yes, this is the problem in a nutshell, and will result (IMO) in a LOT of product returns. Tivo was not thinking this through, as usual.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

darksurtur said:


> Just read over the new MSD terms. Am I reading it correctly that there is no longer a MSD for product lifetime? What a nightmare. If I can't activate the Premiere I ordered with $199 (I got that offer) or $299 lifetime, back it goes.


In my account on TiVo, when I click on MSD details link at the top of the page, the summary still includes MSD LT at $299. Same is true if I look at the upgrade offers for TiVos that do not have LT.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

innocentfreak said:


> I think the concern is more is there anything in the store that tells people this?
> 
> If I had been considering a TiVo and knew what it cost and then saw one on sale for $99 in the store I would assume it was just a sale and the same rates applied. Of course you would get home and find out otherwise especially since BB doesn't mention in their ad that the price is contingent on the $19.99 service plan. Also this means those that might get giftcards to BB for Christmas and decide to buy a TiVo would have to wail until January to buy.


I can't see anything on the $99 Tivo product page on Amazon about subscription rates. So, very likely.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

innocentfreak said:


> I think the concern is more is there anything in the store that tells people this?
> 
> If I had been considering a TiVo and knew what it cost and then saw one on sale for $99 in the store I would assume it was just a sale and the same rates applied. Of course you would get home and find out otherwise especially since BB doesn't mention in their ad that the price is contingent on the $19.99 service plan. Also this means those that might get giftcards to BB for Christmas and decide to buy a TiVo would have to wail until January to buy.


I think that a big problem for TiVo, I think TiVo will get slammed because they are selling a product without telling people, at the point of sale, that the terms have changed from what they were. If a few state AGs get into this because of complaints, it will be costly for TiVo. Many Lifetime TiVo owners know (or thought they knew) that they can get another TiVo with Lifetime Service for $299, may see this great Best Buy $99 TiVo and go *WOW* time to add another TiVo. (Yes I know smart people with their smart phones will go the the TiVo web sight to check on the service plans before any TiVo purchase). This would like your credit card co sending another 10 pages of a changed terms that nobody reads and adds in the 10 pages a $500/year fee if you use you card after say Dec 1 !!


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

lafos said:


> In my account on TiVo, when I click on MSD details link at the top of the page, the summary still includes MSD LT at $299. Same is true if I look at the upgrade offers for TiVos that do not have LT.


I just tried to activate an old Series 2 540 that has not had service for years and my normal $299 MSD Lifetime Service was not offered, only thing I was offered was a $9.95 plan because "*you qualify for Tivo's MSD*".


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

lessd said:


> I just tried to activate an old Series 2 540 that has not had service for years and my normal $299 MSD Lifetime Service was not offered, only thing I was offered was a $9.95 plan because "*you qualify for Tivo's MSD*".


I didn't try that. I have a TiVo on MSD month-to-month, and when I click on schedule a future plan, the $299 PLS option is listed. Wonder if it is a difference between changing existing or adding a "new" box?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Resist said:


> Old news sorry, been discussed already in another thread on the forum.





magnumis said:


> Please provide the link to the other thread.


I thought I started dedicated thread on the new pricing: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=459176
but maybe this one preceded it.

Mods, can we merge the threads?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

lafos said:


> I didn't try that. I have a TiVo on MSD month-to-month, and when I click on schedule a future plan, the $299 PLS option is listed. Wonder if it is a difference between changing existing or adding a "new" box?


Same thing for me an old TiVo that was on monthly and now is unactivated and on my account I can reactive with Lifetime at $299, this is going to drive people nuts!!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

aadam101 said:


> Given the strange decisions Tivo makes to drive customers away, I don't think it's safe to say the price will "Undoubtedly" be less.


Really? you think there's a good chance that the Tivo subscription rate will go up at least $7/mo in the next two years?
I prefer to live in reality.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Best Buy is still ADVERTISING that you can get the tivo for $99 and service for 8.31 a month. Perhaps I should buy one and print a copy of the online ad.

Likely BB and Amazon are just going to get a BUNCH of open box returns when folks find out about the bait and switch. Folks that are told 8.31 a month are NOT going to just roll over and say OK ILL PAY 19.99 instead.

The ads make NO mention of a 1 year 19.99 a month comitment and in fact state otherwise. This is fraud and states AG will take this one on. Tivo has blown this one big time. They are wrong and comitting a fraud on the public.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

New develpment. There are now a bunch of Tivos on Ebay for just OVER $100. Since these are not being purchased for 99.99 acording to the tivo terms, tivo will allow subscription at the 'all other purchases' rate? Thats the letter of the terms presented. Tivo has a PR nightmare brewing here. They are going to loose big time on this one.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

jcthorne said:


> New develpment. There are now a bunch of Tivos on Ebay for just OVER $100. Since these are not being purchased for 99.99 acording to the tivo terms, tivo will allow subscription at the 'all other purchases' rate? Thats the letter of the terms presented. Tivo has a PR nightmare brewing here. They are going to loose big time on this one.


Going by that logic, wouldn't a Premiere purchased for less than $99.99 qualify for what you describe? (Rhetorical question, really)

6thAve's published price was actually $99.00 (99 cents less). I also used a coupon code to knock the price down to $95.04.

I really don't think TiVo thought this through at all. It seems to have been done in a rush. It seems like besides screwing us, they (potentially) left a few opportunities to screw themselves (on our behalf).


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

tcfcameron said:


> Going by that logic, wouldn't a Premiere purchased for less than $99.99 qualify for what you describe? (Rhetorical question, really)
> 
> 6thAve's published price was actually $99.00 (99 cents less). I also used a coupon code to knock the price down to $95.04.
> 
> I really don't think TiVo thought this through at all. It seems to have been done in a rush. It seems like besides screwing us, they (potentially) left a few opportunities to screw themselves (on our behalf).


No because TiVo specifically mentions the $200 off which is how 6th Ave is wording it.

Now I don't know how TiVo will handle Ebay/Craigslist buys though.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Really? you think there's a good chance that the Tivo subscription rate will go up at least $7/mo in the next two years?
> I prefer to live in reality.


Well the rate was $12.95 yesterday. Today it is $19.95. Tivo has a history of changing their pricing structure.


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## Resist (Dec 21, 2003)

magnumis said:


> Please provide the link to the other thread.


http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455462


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

aadam101 said:


> Well the rate was $12.95 yesterday. Today it is $19.95. Tivo has a history of changing their pricing structure.


Actually it is $12.95 today. I don't know where you are getting the idea that it is $19.95. Read the whole thing please.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> Really? you think there's a good chance that the Tivo subscription rate will go up at least $7/mo in the next two years?
> I prefer to live in reality.


Uhm, when TiVo originally started the 1, 2, and 3 year commitments the one year rate was $19.99.

Bought a Series 3 for $999? You paid $19.99 a month if you didn't want to commit to 3 years. And you didn't get a discount on your TiVo either. And it didn't matter if it was new or used.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

socrplyr said:


> Actually it is $12.95 today. I don't know where you are getting the idea that it is $19.95. Read the whole thing please.


You should also read all the whole thing, carefully.

The $12.95 rate is ONLY for TiVo models other than the Premiere. (Yes, you can still buy new TiVo HDs, even new Series 2s)

"2.2 For all other TiVo boxes activated on or after November 14, 2010, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year), you may purchase an annual plan for one (1) year of TiVo Service for an upfront fee of $129, or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399."


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## Rogee (Nov 9, 2010)

I've never owned a Tivo before.

On Saturday I jumped on the 6ave.com deal. $95 is a fantastic price, so I figured I would upgrade from my DTVPal DVR (I'm an OTA guy). I planned on purchasing the lifetime subscription.

Well, I've now just canceled my order with 6ave. I know they are now saying that the old pricing will apply, but I just don't have time to deal with this along with the uncertainty of decent OTA reception.

I'm going to stick with my DTVPal and maybe just buy an inexpensive streaming box like a Roku or something. There's NO WAY I would pay $20 a month.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

jcthorne said:


> New develpment. There are now a bunch of Tivos on Ebay for just OVER $100. Since these are not being purchased for 99.99 acording to the tivo terms, tivo will allow subscription at the 'all other purchases' rate? Thats the letter of the terms presented. Tivo has a PR nightmare brewing here. They are going to loose big time on this one.


I would think the $19.99/month option would be tied to the TSN. If you bought one on Ebay and the seller didn't disclose the subscription limitation, Tivo isn't going to budge. I doubt an item not as described complaint with Ebay would be successful either.

It's not a bad deal for someone new to Tivo who wants to try it for a year. It's not a good deal for an existing Tivo customer, because they could get a premiere with lifetime for $469 versus this deal for $340 for a premiere with one year of service. I could see a lot of existing customers returning these units once they find out about the service limitation, if they weren't aware.

Perhaps Tivo should market this to new users and say existing users are welcome also.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Rogee said:


> I've never owned a Tivo before.
> 
> On Saturday I jumped on the 6ave.com deal. $95 is a fantastic price, so I figured I would upgrade from my DTVPal DVR (I'm an OTA guy). I planned on purchasing the lifetime subscription.
> 
> ...


The DTV Pal is definitely cheaper, but I would miss alot of shows. The season pass, search and suggestion features are worth the extra cost of a Tivo to me.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Resist said:


> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455462


That's an entirely different deal.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Actually the only difference is that one has a 2 year commitment. 

Pay $100 get a 1 year commitment. 
Pay $0 get a 2 year commitment. 

Both have $19.99 a month for service.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

tcfcameron said:


> You should also read all the whole thing, carefully.
> 
> The $12.95 rate is ONLY for TiVo models other than the Premiere. (Yes, you can still buy new TiVo HDs, even new Series 2s)
> 
> "2.2 For all other TiVo boxes activated on or after November 14, 2010, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year), you may purchase an annual plan for one (1) year of TiVo Service for an upfront fee of $129, or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399."


By my read it's also valid on the Premiere if you can find a place to sell it to you for full price.

"2.1.2 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box from a third party retailer at $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box, you may only subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year)."


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

pdhenry said:


> By my read it's also valid on the Premiere if you can find a place to sell it to you for full price.


Actually that would be for any price other than $99.99. So $99.98, $99.97, $99.96, ...

From my read of the agreement, these boxes would fall into a legal quagmire and not be eligible for any service. They clearly fall into section 2.1 (_Tivo Premiere purchased on or after Nov 14th_) but do not fall into subsection 2.1.1 (_directly from Tivo_) or subsection 2.1.2 (_$99.99_). One could probably make the argument that they fall under section 2.2 _(all other Tivos_).

I hope Tivo got a really good deal on whatever lawyer they had write up the payment plan terms.


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree. They are really inconsistent in the new policy between "boxes purchased" and "boxes activated." Don't lawyers get paid to iron these kinds of things out? I especially can't imagine what they were thinking springing this in such an imprecise form when they had to know it would be controversial.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

darksurtur said:


> I agree. They are really inconsistent in the new policy between "boxes purchased" and "boxes activated." Don't lawyers get paid to iron these kinds of things out? I especially can't imagine what they were thinking springing this in such an imprecise form when they had to know it would be controversial.


This is no surprise. This is a poorly run company.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

smbaker said:


> Actually that would be for any price other than $99.99. So $99.98, $99.97, $99.96, ...
> 
> From my read of the agreement, these boxes would fall into a legal quagmire and not be eligible for any service. They clearly fall into section 2.1 (_Tivo Premiere purchased on or after Nov 14th_) but do not fall into subsection 2.1.1 (_directly from Tivo_) or subsection 2.1.2 (_$99.99_). One could probably make the argument that they fall under section 2.2 _(all other Tivos_).
> 
> I hope Tivo got a really good deal on whatever lawyer they had write up the payment plan terms.


I agree that it is strictly worded, but my guess is that Tivo is only running the special with a few number of retailers. Further, I presume those retailers sell for exactly $99.99 and report the TSN of the Tivos sold under it so they can be marked in Tivo's system accordingly.

On as side note, I wonder whether or not the Best Buy deal is a part of this (as it requires the purchase of a TV as well).


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

socrplyr said:


> my guess is that Tivo is only running the special with a few number of retailers. Further, I presume those retailers sell for exactly $99.99


When I looked at Amazon yesterday it was an add to cart to show price item, and was $97.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

smbaker said:


> Actually that would be for any price other than $99.99. So $99.98, $99.97, $99.96, ...


I hadn't gone that far, but I believe you're correct. 

Good luck... 



> One could probably make the argument that they fall under section 2.2 _(all other Tivos_).


That's how I'm seeing it - "none of the above...".


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## mellenfan (Oct 22, 2008)

socrplyr said:


> I agree that it is strictly worded, but my guess is that Tivo is only running the special with a few number of retailers. Further, I presume those retailers sell for exactly $99.99 and report the TSN of the Tivos sold under it so they can be marked in Tivo's system accordingly.
> 
> On as side note, I wonder whether or not the Best Buy deal is a part of this (as it requires the purchase of a TV as well).


You're giving TiVo's system way too much credit to think it can keep track of purchase prices by TSN (not to mention getting feeds of this data from multiple retail/online outlets).


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

socrplyr said:


> I agree that it is strictly worded, but my guess is that Tivo is only running the special with a few number of retailers. Further, I presume those retailers sell for exactly $99.99 and report the TSN of the Tivos sold under it so they can be marked in Tivo's system accordingly.
> 
> On as side note, I wonder whether or not the Best Buy deal is a part of this (as it requires the purchase of a TV as well).


I would think the TSN would be flagged before the unit was sent to a retailer and the retailer would have to sell the unit for $99.99.


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## dimitri2000 (Sep 18, 2007)

This reeks of the same thing ReplayTv did about 5 yrs ago where they unbundled the Replay Tv price from the service a few weeks before the Christmas buying season. We all know the debacle that turned into. I dont think its wise to drastically change the service model during an important buying season due to all the confusion it causes.


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## egadget1 (Dec 26, 2007)

If someone buys a premiere off ebay or craigslist, is tivo going to know where and when it was originaly purchased from? Can you still get lifetime on it? Seems its going to be hard to know where it came from.


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## turbobuick86 (May 3, 2002)

tcfcameron said:


> You should also read all the whole thing, carefully.
> 
> The $12.95 rate is ONLY for TiVo models other than the Premiere. (Yes, you can still buy new TiVo HDs, even new Series 2s)
> 
> "2.2 For all other TiVo boxes activated on or after November 14, 2010, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year), you may purchase an annual plan for one (1) year of TiVo Service for an upfront fee of $129, or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399."


non discounted Premieres would also be "other TiVo boxes"

The only boxes they are quantifying are the $99 boxes that started selling Sunday.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

darksurtur said:


> I agree. They are really inconsistent in the new policy between "boxes purchased" and "boxes activated." Don't lawyers get paid to iron these kinds of things out?


Yes, but apparently Tivo is only paying $19.99 a month for their lawyer.


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## SMWinnie (Aug 17, 2002)

I just got a cancellation notice from Electronics Expo. I ordered from them on Friday the 12th for a little over $150.

I did check with Electronics Expo on Saturday the 13th to see whether they would match the 6th Avenue price. I will be truly amused if they decided to accommodate me by canceling the original order and running a new one - after the November 14th cutoff - for $99.


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## hahnwo (Jan 18, 2002)

Having trouble getting a direct answer anywhere, maybe because it is unknown.

I own 3 Tivo's already, 1 Lifetime and 2 on MSD for $9.95 a month.

I like many others bought a new Tivo at BB for $99 having no idea the discount was based on their new pricing structure.

Do we know yet if the $99 Tivo can ONLY be activated with $19.99/month service or can it fall under the $9.95 MSD.

Thanks


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

hahnwo said:


> Having trouble getting a direct answer anywhere, maybe because it is unknown.
> 
> I own 3 Tivo's already, 1 Lifetime and 2 on MSD for $9.95 a month.
> 
> ...


Yes - that is known - any activation on a New TiVo bought from retail will be 19.99 a month.
If you do not want that plan then return the TiVo DVR to the retail place as soon as you can


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

They probably cancelled due to the price match though they should have contacted you to see if you wanted it at the $150 price instead.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

So, are we sure that after the 2 years at $20/month for the free box, we can continue service at the unsubsidized rate (currently $12.95/month or $9.95 a month if you have another box)?

If you assume the life of a TiVo Premiere is 36 months, and you already have a TiVo with Lifetime, buying the box with lifetime (with the current discount offer) is still a better deal. 

With lifetime, you pay $468 today and never pay again. 

With the one year deal, you pay $119.94 in month 1, $19.95 in months 2-12 and $9.95 in months 13-36. Grand total: $578.19. 

With the two year deal, you pay $19.95 in months 1-24 and $9.95 in months 25-36. Grand total: $598.20.

Yeah, it's over time, but present value math isn't going to overcome difference that large.


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## rbendorf (Dec 10, 2008)

I bought my Premiere from 6th Ave on 13 Nov, and they have stated that Tivo will honor the old monthly plan of 9.95 or 99.00 yearly on all units purchased before 14 Nov.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

TiVoPony responds with more info

It looks like according to TiVoPony, after the commitment is over the price remains at $19.99 but no commitment. I am guessing this may be the same with the 2 year option also.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Since there is no commitment after the first year, can you suspend service for one or more months and then resume at $19.99 again with no commitment after the initial one year commitment is complete?


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## rbendorf (Dec 10, 2008)

It will be interesting to see what happens after the 1 Years is over. There is a great deal of "chatter" on the web about this situation, so Tivo will get a lot of press from this. Depending on the outcome, it could be negative or positive.

I have had Tivo units since 2005 and have enjoyed them. I really hope that Tivo gets their act together as it would be a shame to see them gone. As a techie I like the prospect of being able to update and customize the Tivo units, which generally can't be done with the DVR boxes from the providers.


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## rbendorf (Dec 10, 2008)

hahnwo said:


> Having trouble getting a direct answer anywhere, maybe because it is unknown.
> 
> I own 3 Tivo's already, 1 Lifetime and 2 on MSD for $9.95 a month.
> 
> ...


If you bought it before 14 Nov., then you come under the old plan, which you can find on the web, and if you bought it on 14 Nov or later, the new plan kicks in. I have 2 Tivos, on with lifetime and the other on the 99.00 (MSD) yearly plan and am not sure what will happen, but I bought my Premiere on 13 Nov., so it should fall under the old plan. Hope this helps a bit as the water is pretty "muddy" now.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yes - that is known - any activation on a New TiVo bought from retail will be 19.99 a month.
> If you do not want that plan then return the TiVo DVR to the retail place as soon as you can


As much as it pains me to say this:

The sky is falling, it's the end of the world, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria! - I actually agree with you 100%.

What's that sound? (It's hell freezing over)

Savor the moment, ZeoTivo!


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

rbendorf said:


> I bought my Premiere from 6th Ave on 13 Nov, and they have stated that Tivo will honor the old monthly plan of 9.95 or 99.00 yearly on all units purchased before 14 Nov.


As I have said, repeatedly, to others: You need to ask TiVo what the deal is, not the retailer/reseller. They can't make you any promises, whatsoever (regarding how TiVo will classify your unit and which service plans will be available to you).

Even TiVo has a record of saying one thing on one call, and then saying the opposite when you call back later.

Be careful people!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

tcfcameron said:


> - I actually agree with you 100%.


It's a TiVo Christmas miracle


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

tcfcameron said:


> As I have said, repeatedly, to others: You need to ask TiVo what the deal is, not the retailer/reseller. They can't make you any promises, whatsoever (regarding how TiVo will classify your unit and which service plans will be available to you).
> 
> Even TiVo has a record of saying one thing on one call, and then saying the opposite when you call back later.
> 
> Be careful people!


The terms are unambiguous about units bought prior to the 14th and registered later.

2.1 For TiVo Premiere boxes purchased on or after November 14, 2010: (_blah blah blah_)
...
2.2 For all other TiVo boxes *activated* on or after November 14, 2010, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year), you may purchase an annual plan for one (1) year of TiVo Service for an upfront fee of $129, or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep, clear as a bell to me too, but apparently not for some folks.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

One nice thing Tivo have done on tivo.com is to allow you to use the upgrade program and retain your existing subscription. Last time I looked the upgrade special offer required a new subscription but now you can upgrade a box and retain the old subscription. So I can buy the premier from tivo.com for $199 and retain my $6.95 msd.


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## gamerguy-n-TX (Dec 18, 2009)

hahnwo said:


> Having trouble getting a direct answer anywhere, maybe because it is unknown.
> 
> I own 3 Tivo's already, 1 Lifetime and 2 on MSD for $9.95 a month.
> 
> ...


Are you saying you bought the TIVO Premiere *yesterday, 11/14?*

If so, it falls under the new pricing structure but I know BB had a prior promotion for a $99 Premiere when purchased with an eligible HDTV.

Purchased within the HDTV promotion guidelines, you shouldn't be tied to the $19.99/mo. plan.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT MSG, THAT I WAS PERSONALLY ASKED BY HIGH MANAGEMENT OF 6TH AVE TO DELIVER HERE, AND IT IS TIME SENSITIVE:

(This information is ONLY applicable to purchases from 6th Ave):

1. The price paid has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you will be eligible for TiVo Service under old or new policy.

2. The TiVo TSN of your unit has no factor in the same (they are not recording them, or making any list of them).

3. The date of purchase is the only factor, 11/14 being the cut-off date.

4. Orders that have been canceled, are being kept in a special holding queue, to give you the opportunity to un-cancel your order.

5. Some early cancellations were not placed in the above mentioned queue, and will be handled on an individual basis.

6. Today (11/15) is the last day that action can be taken to insure you are eligible for the old TiVo policies. If you do not un-cancel your order today, you will miss the last opportunity to get the old TiVo service terms.

7. 6th Ave has been fighting for us, for 72 hours, trying to insure that TiVo does not deny old service policy to eligible purchasers.

8. 6th Ave has pledged to fight for us, and will fight fiercely with TiVo, should they try to renege in any way.

9. TiVo's call center is supposed to be fully aware of the agreement that exists between TiVo and 6th Ave. If they try to tell you otherwise, try another rep, or contact 6th Ave, and they will fight for you.

10. I have been asked by 6th Ave, to provide links to the forum threads that are regarding this matter. (which I will do shortly).

11. I have been asked by 6th Ave, to report to them any new issues arising from this deal. (and I will).

12. All customers with an existing order, as well as those who canceled (and made the special holding queue), will receive an email from 6th Ave shortly.

-EDIT: It is requested, by 6thAve, that upon receiving your Premiere, that you DON'T OPEN THE FACTORY BOX, until you have called in the TSN (located on the outside of factory box) to TiVo, and verified that TiVo will allow you to activate under the previous TiVo service agreement policies.

6thAve is offering a full refund, including shipping (via pre-paid label), if you are denied activation under the previous TiVo service agreement policies, provided that you have contacted 6thAve to report the denial, and are still unable to resolve the matter.

I can't recall if not opening the factory box is a request, or a condition, regarding the full refund.

You can email [email protected] regarding any issues.

Now, a personal msg from me: I'm sorry if I was the reason for anybody that canceled their order. However, if it had not been for 6th Ave's fight that they took to TiVo, my initial concerns about being stuck with the new policy, would have been true.


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## FTD (Mar 7, 2007)

I'm curious as to why those with existing service are "calling" in to activate the new Premier units and not using their Tivo account. Is it because you are trying to transfer existing service between units, or do you *have* to call to get the Premier units activated? I have two HD units and purchased a Premier through 6ave to have a third. I was just planning to activate through the web and see if the MSD is offered, if not then call. I feel I'm missing something here (besides the potential subscription pricing issue).


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

FTD said:


> I'm curious as to why those with existing service are "calling" in to activate the new Premier units and not using their Tivo account. Is it because you are trying to transfer existing service between units, or do you *have* to call to get the Premier units activated? I have two HD units and purchased a Premier through 6ave to have a third. I was just planning to activate through the web and see if the MSD is offered, if not then call. I feel I'm missing something here (besides the potential subscription pricing issue).


TiVo removed the "Change TSN" function from their website. All transfers must be called in.

I don't know why.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

tcfcameron said:


> TiVo removed the "Change TSN" function from their website. All activations and transfers must be called in.
> 
> I don't know why.


Likely because they want to verify the plan eligibility of all boxes now. It would not be fair, under the new terms, to buy a $99 box and swap it for $6.95 service.


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## lafos (Nov 8, 2004)

petew said:


> One nice thing Tivo have done on tivo.com is to allow you to use the upgrade program and retain your existing subscription. Last time I looked the upgrade special offer required a new subscription but now you can upgrade a box and retain the old subscription. So I can buy the premier from tivo.com for $199 and retain my $6.95 msd.


I just looked at my upgrade offers, and it requires my selection of a plan for the Premiere. I did not see a way to replace my HD on the $6.95 rate with the new box. How did you do it?


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

lafos said:


> I just looked at my upgrade offers, and it requires my selection of a plan for the Premiere. I did not see a way to replace my HD on the $6.95 rate with the new box. How did you do it?


Interesting. I went back to the site and tried to upgrade one of my other units and I'm asked to select a plan. Then I found the following in the FAQ:

If you currently have a 1-year or 3-year prepay service plan on your older TiVo box, it will be automatically transferred to your upgraded Premiere. Monthly service contracts outside of a commitment are not eligible for service transfer.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

jcthorne said:


> The ads make NO mention of a 1 year 19.99 a month comitment and in fact state otherwise. This is fraud and states AG will take this one on. Tivo has blown this one big time. They are wrong and comitting a fraud on the public.


The on-line and print ads from BestBuy that I see all say:



> TiVo Service as low as $19.99 per month* *Minimum 1 year service plan required. Early termination fee and other restrictions apply. Offer ends 12/31/10.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Still nothing on Amazon (aside from a few user reviews pointing out the subscription price change).


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## GYPSY01 (Nov 16, 2010)

Most of what I read refers to Premier units.
If a HD unit or XL unit (not Premier) were to be purchased would the Lifetime service be allowed? So far it doesn't seem clear to me.
If someone could clarify this for me, I would appreciate it.
Thank You. G01


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Near as I can tell, only Premiere units are being sold with this pre-sale or at-sale discount, requiring the $19.95/month subscription.

Units sold without that discount are elgible for old pricing plans, including MSD and Product Lifetime.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

petew said:


> Interesting. I went back to the site and tried to upgrade one of my other units and I'm asked to select a plan. Then I found the following in the FAQ:
> 
> If you currently have a 1-year or 3-year prepay service plan on your older TiVo box, it will be automatically transferred to your upgraded Premiere. Monthly service contracts outside of a commitment are not eligible for service transfer.


From TiVo's point of view this actually makes sense and is overdue. 

It closes a loop hole were you could buy a new TiVo and not commit to a new contract period and
It gives them a way to ease out of the old 6.95/mo MSD deals
Of course from an existing customers point of view this sucks.

Thanks,


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> From TiVo's point of view this actually makes sense and is overdue.
> 
> It closes a loop hole were you could buy a new TiVo and not commit to a new contract period and


Any additional new plan on a new unit always required a minimum one year commit, unless an exiting subscriber used the new unit to replace an existing unit using the same rate plan.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

Can you buy the $99 Tivo and never activate it to use as parts ? Or do the vendors require the user to sign up for the service at the point of sale?


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

parzec said:


> Can you buy the $99 Tivo and never activate it to use as parts ? Or do the vendors require the user to sign up for the service at the point of sale?


No, you are not required to activate the unit at the point of sale (unless you buy from TiVo directly).

One way TiVo may get screwed, is if enough people buy these at $99, and then strip them down for parts to sell.

Another would be if enough "spare parts hoarders" buy extras, and just chuck them in the attic/basement until they need a part for the one they are actually using.

These "marked for life" promo units, simply are worth more in parts, than they are as a deal, for most consumers.

They never lose their being flagged as "promotional" in TiVo's tracking system, no matter what "deal" one may work out with TiVo. Even if you talk them into Lifetime service, the unit would remain flagged, and upon selling the unit, the LT service may evaporate.

For an example: There are threads that existed before this debacle, about how eBay TiVo HD units were being sold with LT service, but the buyer would end up with no service. This issue boiled down to TiVo saying that the original owner received a promotional lifetime service, and because of that, TiVo is not obligated to extend the LT service to the new owner.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

netringer said:


> Any additional new plan on a new unit always required a minimum one year commit, unless an exiting subscriber used the new unit to replace an existing unit using the same rate plan.


True - but from what petew posted it may no longer possible to replace a unit on a month to month plan.

Thanks,


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> True - but from what petew posted it may no longer possible to replace a unit on a month to month plan.
> 
> Thanks,


As of now any non $99 TP can replace any monthly TiVo, but you have to call TiVo now, as before you could just do the change yourself on the WEB.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lessd said:


> As of now any non $99 TP can replace any monthly TiVo, but you have to call TiVo now, as before you could just do the change yourself on the WEB.


 Do we know that for sure? petew claimed he found in a FAQ section:

"Monthly service contracts outside of a commitment are not eligible for service transfer."

Which would indicate that not only did they remove the ability to sub in a new TiVo into an old no commitment monthly service plan from the web but that they eliminated the ability to do it at all.

Thanks,


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## T.DurdensOthr1/2 (Jul 31, 2010)

The TiVo Premiere for $99 is $200 off. That $200 is covered for an additional $7/mth. 1 yr? $84. You're gonna ***** about $7/mth to own a brand new TiVo Premiere for $115 less than people that pay for the box up front? Can you get PLS on a $99 TiVo? Of course not. You've already had a massive discount on the box. Wait til your 1 yr is over and go to any service plan you choose... you'll be outside of your 1 yr commitment, and like always, you'll be open to any service plan you decide to go to. You're upset over $19.99/mth? Ok, so pay full price for a box and get it for $9.95-$12.95/mth, $99-$129 for a year, or $399 for PLS. Don't have the $2-300 to pay for the best dvr system on the planet? Ok, do $19.99/mth. Don't want to have a service plan? Pay the $400 for PLS. Add a ton of resale value to your TiVo, never have a TiVo service bill, and be good for years to come with a sick Premiere. 

To dolts that says things like, "I remember when tivo was $5.95 and I'll just stick with my crappy Cablevision piece of ****" why are you even on a TiVo forum? Are you that foolish? The reason people are willing to pay more for the service is because TiVo does more than a lame ass DVR from some lowly cable provider. Can your piece of **** DVR from Cable OR Satellite be networked to your home computer? I don't even pay for cable OR satellite service. Why would I do that when my Premiere XL does FREE OTA, my internet gives me Netflix and Amazon on Demand.. and I torrent movies every single day to watch on my TiVo. RSS feeds for free? What about free UFC via RSS Feed? Can your ****** ass DVR do anything but barely handle recording a few shows a week? If you want some piece of **** DVR from a second or third rate cable provider... that's your own foolishness. If you want to have the easiest to use, most user friendly, and fun DVR + MORE than get a TiVo and brag about it like you're supposed to. You're the one wasting your income on a piece of junk system that you're paying more for and getting less out of. My household bills for media these days?

$39.99 20 MBPS Broadband
$19.99/mth TiVo Service
$8.99/mth Netflix
$9.95/mth Hulu Plus (not yet... I can't WAIT though!!!)
Amazon? maybe $10-15/mth
$2/mth Magic Jack for my phone..
Movies/Shows/Music from the web on my computer? FREE
So, for Phone, TV, Movies, Music, OTA HD DVR, and High Speed Internet?
$80/mth... and I get it all in the highest quality and I don't have to deal with the ****** harpy's at the cable company any more. I watch only what I want to watch when I want to watch it. I don't need to pay some cable company for a bunch of **** I don't watch anyway. I can FINALLY pick and choose ONLY the shows that I want to watch and pay for.

This is by far THE GREATEST OPPORTUNITY TIVO CAN PROVIDE to a country in a recession. How many people do you think have $2-500 sitting around to invest in a TiVo PRemiere or XL? Why do most people end up canceling TiVo service? Because they have the old POS Series 2s and don't have the money to upgrade into a much better box... so what do they do? They end up paying $4 more a mth to rent some piece of **** HD DVR from a cable or satellite provider.. So, how does TiVo handle that? NO MONEY DOWN TiVo Premiere for $3 more a mth than your piece of **** RENTAL dvr. 

Don't want to do 2 yrs @ $19.99/mth? ok $99 today, 1 yr at $19.99. Don't want to do $19.99 mth? Pay for the box Full Price and utilize the standard mthly rates. Don't want to have service bills? Get Product Lifetime Service. 

2 yrs $12.95/mth plus Premiere (full price) = $610
2yrs $19.99/mth with Premiere included = $480
Savings of $130

1 yr $12.95/mth plus Premiere (full price) = $455
1 yr $19.99/mth with $99 Premiere = $340
Savings of $115

after your commitment ends, find a service plan that meets your needs... you'll have at least 3 available... Monthly, Yearly, Lifetime.


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## Len McRiddles (Dec 21, 2002)

Can I get the popcorn concession to this thread?


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## jtrain (Jan 17, 2006)

hmm, this thread is beginning to get intriguing...I've currently got a THD on month-to-month msd and am looking to replace it with an original S3 (OLED). From what I'm reading, if I do this, I'll have to call in to transfer the service, whereas before I could do it online; or that I may not be able to transfer service at all to a different box from my current THD *and* retain my current month-to-month msd pricing.

I guess I'll have to call and see before I make my purchase...it would be disappointing as a long-time tivo user to see the service transfer go away, but in my case I'm not trying to replace a THD with a Premier.

I only use my TiVos for OTA HD/Netflix/Amazon/Pandora (no cable at this time). I have an original lifetimed S3 (OLED) and truly do love that model and its use for our family, that's why I'm looking at getting another one to replace my THD...


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## Xecuter2 (Jul 21, 2008)

When does this holiday sale end? I'm considering buying a Premiere just prior to the end of the sale to cash in at $99 or $299. Then activate the Tivo after lifetime service returns. Thoughts?


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

Xecuter2 said:


> When does this holiday sale end? I'm considering buying a Premiere just prior to the end of the sale to cash in at $99 or $299. Then activate the Tivo after lifetime service returns. Thoughts?


No one, I think, knows for sure if the discounted units are "marked" for life to be billed at $20 a month, based on SKU or inventory tracking or something else.


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## Xecuter2 (Jul 21, 2008)

darksurtur said:


> No one, I think, knows for sure if the discounted units are "marked" for life to be billed at $20 a month, based on SKU or inventory tracking or something else.


Logistically and realistically how would they do this?


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## rlcarr (Jan 18, 2003)

Since they reportedly made a new SKU for "2010 Holiday Promotion" Premieres, and the SKU is on the boxes, and the TSN is on the boxes, it certainly seems possible that the fact that a particular TSN goes with a particular SKU can be known and so a flag on the record for that TSN in TiVo's database can be set to indicate that TSN was a "2010 Holiday Promotion" machine and so be tracked forever.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

darksurtur said:


> No one, I think, knows for sure if the discounted units are "marked" for life to be billed at $20 a month, based on SKU or inventory tracking or something else.


there has been statements from TiVo - we are actually pretty sure of the following

1. at the end of the agreement period - the billing will be 19.95 a month but the term will be month to month.

it will stay like that until the owner does

2. select a plan at the *regular* rates (MSD if applicable) and agree to another 1, 2 or 3 years or buy lifetime.

so in short these units are NOT marked for life at 20$ and you go back to regular pricing once you proactively choose a regular plan to start at the end of the promo pricing term


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Xecuter2 said:


> When does this holiday sale end? I'm considering buying a Premiere just prior to the end of the sale to cash in at $99 or $299. Then activate the Tivo after lifetime service returns. Thoughts?


_*cough*_ If you're an existing subscriber with any "full pay" plan, take a look at http://tivo.com/premiereupgrade like I just did, based on the ad on my S3 TiVo.

You'll find that an old friend is still there.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

rlcarr said:


> Since they reportedly made a new SKU for "2010 Holiday Promotion" Premieres, and the SKU is on the boxes, and the TSN is on the boxes, it certainly seems possible that the fact that a particular TSN goes with a particular SKU can be known and so a flag on the record for that TSN in TiVo's database can be set to indicate that TSN was a "2010 Holiday Promotion" machine and so be tracked forever.


I don't think so but we can test that theory as i have a TP from May this year. The box UPC is 5134200086 and the SKU R74632 the TSN is 746-0001-xxxx-xxxx. I looked in Best Buy at 10 746 TiVos and they all had the $99 price and the same UPC and SKU. Do you really think Bust Buy and others would pull the thousands of 746 TP off the shelves and replace them with another 746 holding up all that older inventory.
If anybody finds another SKU let them post.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

lessd said:


> ...Do you really think Bust Buy and others would pull the thousands of 746 TP off the shelves and replace them with another 746 holding up all that older inventory...


My thoughts exactly. And then what does TiVo do with all those "special" Premieres that didn't sell? Eat the cost?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

I think I'm liking the new options. I originally bought my S2DT when the 19.95/month, 49.00 down special was running and didn't have a problem changing my plan after a year. Don't think I like the whole not being able to change the TSN, but I never used it anyway so have no real reason to complain.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

darksurtur said:


> No one, I think, knows for sure if the discounted units are "marked" for life to be billed at $20 a month, based on SKU or inventory tracking or something else.





lessd said:


> Do you really think Bust Buy and others would pull the thousands of 746 TP off the shelves and replace them with another 746 holding up all that older inventory.





orangeboy said:


> My thoughts exactly. And then what does TiVo do with all those "special" Premieres that didn't sell? Eat the cost?


Retailers with "old" stock will have paid a wholesale price based on the $299 retial price point. Presumably they will get a rebate for every tivo sold at $99 so it would be relatively simple for them to provide Tivo with a list of TSN's related to the $99 sales, thereby "marking" them for life.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

petew said:


> Retailers with "old" stock will have paid a wholesale price based on the $299 retial price point. Presumably they will get a rebate for every tivo sold at $99 so it would be relatively simple for them to provide Tivo with a list of TSN's related to the $99 sales, thereby "marking" them for life.


I don't know how many retailers have a computer system already set up to record the TSN of the TiVos sold, to set that up would not be that easy, and without a lot of advance notice, it would not be possible. TiVo would also have to set up some download system for the $99 TiVos from each store, not very easy to do quickly and would cost some money for all the co.s


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

darksurtur said:


> No one, I think, knows for sure if the discounted units are "marked" for life to be billed at $20 a month, based on SKU or inventory tracking or something else.


If you call TiVo and work your way up high enough, you will be told that, YES, the promotional units are "marked", in their tracking system, and that designation NEVER expires. It's done through the TSN.

The different SKU theory has never (or not yet) been confirirmed.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

lessd said:


> I don't know how many retailers have a computer system already set up to record the TSN of the TiVos sold, to set that up would not be that easy, and without a lot of advance notice, it would not be possible. TiVo would also have to set up some download system for the $99 TiVos from each store, not very easy to do quickly and would cost some money for all the co.s


I would assume Best Buy does just based off the fact they use it for extended warranties. I would assume most have a way of tracking the serial number especially if they sell extended warranties, but then I don't know of anyone who has ever tried to return something to Amazon they bought somewhere else.

Of course come the end of the year we may find out if people get creative.


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

tcfcameron said:


> If you call TiVo and work your way up high enough, you will be told that, YES, the promotional units are "marked", in their tracking system, and that designation NEVER expires. It's done through the TSN.
> 
> The different SKU theory has never (or not yet) been confirirmed.


Yeah, but a problem, as this and other recent threads indicate, is that TiVo CS reps, even beyond first level, are not consistent in what they report. And I get the sense that given the ad and early sales snafus, the company is also reconsidering policies on the fly, adding to the confusion.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

darksurtur said:


> Yeah, but a problem, as this and other recent threads indicate, is that TiVo CS reps, even beyond first level, are not consistent in what they report. And I get the sense that given the ad and early sales snafus, the company is also reconsidering policies on the fly, adding to the confusion.


I agree, that there is no consistency, with what TiVo has been telling people.

As far as them reconsidering anything, the only thing they seem to be reconsidering, is whether or not they will grandfather-in units purchased for $99, before the 14th.

They seem to be leaning toward doing the right thing. But, there are just too many people still waiting for their units to arrive, to draw any conclusions, or sound the "all is well" signal.

Then, there is still the matter of "marked" TSNs. Just because TiVo may honor pre-11/14 pricing, for the current owner, doesn't mean that if the unit is sold later, that it won't still be flagged as a promo unit.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tcfcameron said:


> If you call TiVo and work your way up high enough, you will be told that, YES, the promotional units are "marked", in their tracking system, and that designation NEVER expires. It's done through the TSN.
> 
> The different SKU theory has never (or not yet) been confirirmed.


I confirmed it in post 116 the SKU & UPC codes are the same on Best Buy $99 TP as on my May TP, (yes I only saw 10 boxes of TPs at BB but let somebody confirm a different story from 6th Av units or others as i gave out the SKU & UPC in post 116)


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

lessd said:


> I confirmed it in post 116 the SKU & UPC codes are the same on Best Buy $99 TP as on my May TP, (yes I only saw 10 boxes of TPs at BB but let somebody confirm a different story from 6th Av units or others as i gave out the SKU & UPC in post 116)


Just to clarify that... You confirmed that the UPC codes and SKUs haven't changed.

The "theory" I was saying hadn't been confirmed was that they could be different. So, technically, you confirmed the opposite.

I'm just trying to keep people from misunderstanding. That's all.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tcfcameron said:


> Just to clarify that... You confirmed that the UPC codes and SKUs haven't changed.
> 
> The "theory" I was saying hadn't been confirmed was that they could be different. So, technically, you confirmed the opposite.
> 
> I'm just trying to keep people from misunderstanding. That's all.


Look at my post 116 I confirmed that 10 $99 TP at Best Buy had the same SKU & UPC code as my May TP, I posted the SKU and UPC in my post, so others could also confirm as i only looked at 10 TPs.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

lessd said:


> Look at my post 116 I confirmed that 10 $99 TP at Best Buy had the same SKU & UPC code as my May TP, I posted the SKU and UPC in my post, so others could also confirm as i only looked at 10 TPs.


I looked at your post 116 before, and once again. Is there something we disagree on?


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## shagggz (Oct 12, 2007)

so.....if I call tivo and ask them to change the tsn on my old s2 to a new tivo premiere i just bought at best buy for $99 will they let me? and will they let me keep my old $6.95 a month plan on it? has anyone actually tried it?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tcfcameron said:


> I looked at your post 116 before, and once again. Is there something we disagree on?


If nobody comes up with a different UPC or SKU on the TP (746) we should be on the same page.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

shagggz said:


> so.....if I call tivo and ask them to change the tsn on my old s2 to a new tivo premiere i just bought at best buy for $99 will they let me? and will they let me keep my old $6.95 a month plan on it? has anyone actually tried it?


The only option for $99 TiVos purchased after 11/13 is a 1 year commitment at $19.95/month. This promotion is in place until Dec. 31st.

There is some disagreement on what pricing will be available to you after the commitment. Some speculate that a lower rate may be available at that point.

The MSD rules (seem to) state that promotional units aren't eligible to either receive MSD pricing, or be a unit that qualifies another unit to receive MSD pricing.

It could very well be (it has been reported from many sources), that the only rate for these promo units is $19.95/mo. (forever), even after the 1yr. commitment period has been completed.

Everybody should take note of the fact that these promo units will always be designated by TiVo as promo units (the designation does not expire, even when resold).

Some people may be able to get (some already have) alternate (prior to 11/14) pricing, because they bought a $99 promo unit before the 14th. However, if resold, the new owner will face a monthly rate of $19.95.


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## darksurtur (Jan 2, 2008)

tcfcameron said:


> Some people may be able to get (some already have) alternate (prior to 11/14) pricing, because they bought a $99 promo unit before the 14th. However, if resold, the new owner will face a monthly rate of $19.95.


But not if it has lifetime, correct? I assume a lifetimed unit persists through resale, like usual.


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

tcfcameron said:


> Some people may be able to get (some already have) alternate (prior to 11/14) pricing, because they bought a $99 promo unit before the 14th. However, if resold, *the new owner will face a monthly rate of $19.95.*


tcfcameron,

Please stop spreading this misinformation. We get it that you don't like what Tivo has done/is doing with the pricing, but you are constantly making statements like this, when you don't know with any more certainty than anyone else here what Tivo will do when these units come to the end of their initial commitment.

I have two new Premieres that I bought from 6th ave on the 13th.

I had no trouble calling up, pointing out the section of the terms and conditions that exempted devices purchased before the 14th from the new pricing and then getting both activated on $99/ 1 year pre-paid pricing plan.

Do I have a guarantee that I'll be able to renew them at the same rate (or one at $129 and the other at $99, as they will be the only two Tivos on my account by the end of that one year commitment)? No, I don't.

I don't have any reason to believe that they will be treated any differently than my previous S2DT and TivoHDs? No, I don't.

The fact is, though, that beyond any commitment that is made at the time you activate service, Tivo ALWAYS has the option to change pricing. They've done it several times in the past and I'm sure they'll continue to do it in the future.

The problem I have with your posts is that you go back and forth between telling others that the assumption Tivo will operate in the customer's best interest is just that - an assumption and we should be careful what we assume to be the future plans (a very good point I might add, and one that I agree with). But then in other posts, like the one I quoted above, you speak as if you can say with certainty that Tivo will act only in the way that is most advantageous to the company.

You don't know any more than I do what Tivo will do if you resell one of these special promotional units to another user. I'd wager that Tivo itself couldn't say with any certainty what they will do at the end of that one year commitment - it's a year away, four quarterly reports that Tivo has to get through with Wall Street.

Tivo will almost certainly do what is best for the bottom line - sometimes that is offering lower subscription rates, sometimes that is raising rates. It will depend on the business and competition climate at that time.

I don't know, you don't know, Tivo doesn't know what that will be in 12 months. Please stop posting messages that can mislead others into thinking it is the worst case.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

wombat94 said:


> tcfcameron,
> 
> Please stop spreading this misinformation.


I didn't see anything inaccurate in the 131 post. Seemed clear enough. He even stated that what would be available after the commitment period ended is up for discussion. The real problem I see is that TiVo needs to clarify the terms of the promotion and how they can change after the initial commitment period, in plain english.


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

Stormspace said:


> I didn't see anything inaccurate in the 131 post. Seemed clear enough. He even stated that what would be available after the commitment period ended is up for discussion. The real problem I see is that TiVo needs to clarify the terms of the promotion and how they can change after the initial commitment period, in plain english.


Did you not see the part of tcfcameron's post that I bolded in my quote.

The misinformation was, and I'll quote it again:

"However, if resold, the new owner will face a monthly rate of $19.95."

I've not heard that anywhere else other than tcfcameron's post and it is put out there without any qualifications, as if it is fact.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

tcfcameron said:


> ...Some people may be able to get (some already have) alternate (prior to 11/14) pricing, because they bought a $99 promo unit before the 14th. However, if resold, the new owner will face a monthly rate of $19.95.





Stormspace said:


> I didn't see anything inaccurate in the 131 post. Seemed clear enough. He even stated that what would be available after the commitment period ended is up for discussion. The real problem I see is that TiVo needs to clarify the terms of the promotion and how they can change after the initial commitment period, in plain english.


Shouldn't it be "However, if resold *during the current holiday promotion*, the new owner will face a monthly rate of $19.95."?

Is it known what pricing plans are available _for activations_ after 12/31/2010? And actually, I think reselling a Premiere is subject to TiVo Payment Plans section 2.2:


> 2. You may purchase a subscription to the TiVo Service in one of the following ways:
> 2.1 For TiVo Premiere boxes purchased on or after November 14, 2010:
> 2.1.1 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box and subscription at the same time directly from TiVo, you may select one of the following options:
> (i) You may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle with
> ...


because:
a) the seller is NOT TiVo (2.1.1) and 
b) the seller is NOT a third party _retailer_ (2.1.2).

Falling through to 2.2 because 2.1.1 and 2.1.2 do not apply would seem to allow the buyer their choice of standard plans. No?
Or as a seller, are you always considered a retailer?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

darksurtur said:


> But not if it has lifetime, correct? I assume a lifetimed unit persists through resale, like usual.


If you do get Lifetime on the TP the CSR must read you the terms of that Lifetime, and one part that he reads you is that *the Lifetime stays with the box not the person even if the TiVo is sold*, that should answer that question. The way the $19.95 monthly rate T&C now reads is that once any TP gets that plan it will be marked for life at that plan ($19.95/month). The T&C does not go into what happens after your commitment is done and the TP is deactivated than sold, but if you, the original owner, re-active the unit you will pay the $19.95/month. TiVo can and does change their T&C without notice so we can all guess away as to what going to happen after Nov 14th 2011 to monthly $19.95 TPs that people want to renew/sell. We can all guess away as to what pricing will be available Jan 1st 2011 as this $99 sale may end then. We will never out guess TiVo as TiVo itself may not know until they see how this new plan works for them.
As a side note TiVo did make a change in what they read to you on getting any Lifetime because before they would talk about the cancellation fee after 30 days, and a few months ago when I heard that I did ask how any Lifetime Service could have such a fee after 30 days, the CSR paused than said that statement is not relevant on Lifetime Service and he would bring that up to TiVo.inc.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

This is a blanket reply to the accusations of spreading misinformation.

All information that I have been posting over the last two days, has been verified by TiVo Executive Relations.

For those who don't know, that is as high up as you can escalate an issue with TiVo. It's the end of the road.

Prior to 11/17, I was working with information I was being given by low-level TiVo CS reps, as well as 6thAve, as well as the 11/14 posted TiVo policies.

You all can try and pretend to be lawyers, quote, and disseminate TiVo's policies to your heart's content.

The ONLY reason that I see for anybody to get so very worked up over posting that a resold $99 Promo Premiere, will subject the new owner to a rate of $19.95/month, would be that reselling is something they intended, and now those persons feel that I am devaluing their product.

Well, the truth is the truth, and facts are facts. I'm not going to stop saying any, of either.

I also won't ever be buying a premiere from any source other than TiVo, or TiVo's authorized resellers/retailers. These poisoned-TSN promo units will be floating around for years to come.

Just look at the precedent. There have been verified reports of people buying TiVo HD units off eBay, that were advertised as Lifetime service units, but once the new owner registered them, *poof*, no Lifetime service. Why? TiVo's response was that they were PROMOTIONAL, thus not subject to the normal rules and policies.

The only way that could have been avoided, would have been to get the TSN before buying and have TiVo verify whether or not it was flagged as a promo.

Somebody would, without a doubt, say there is another way. So I'll say it. Perhaps if the new owner never registers the TiVo under their name/account, it would have retained promotional lifetime.

However, to avoid confusion, I'll emphasize that the last three paragraphs are speaking of units OTHER THAN the current promotional units.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

lessd said:


> If nobody comes up with a different UPC or SKU on the TP (746) we should be on the same page.


I just received my TP (746) from 6th Ave.

The UPC and SKU are the same as my EE (non-promo) unit.

They are so close to identical, that the only thing different is the TSN.

I seriously doubt that anybody will be posting a different UPC/SKU.

BTW: The origin of the "different SKU" theory, was an online support chat with a bottom-level TiVo CS rep. That rep claimed they could tell by the SKU, as well as the TSN, what pricing/plan options were available.


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## rlcarr (Jan 18, 2003)

I thought more about this "marking" thing. So perhaps it isn't done via SKU/TSN combo, but it still seems quite possible:

1) Any TiVos sold by TiVo can certainly be "marked". TiVo certainly knows the TSNs of TiVos it sells under the holiday promo and can flag them forever in its database.

2) When someone buys a TiVo from a 3rd party retailer and activates it on a holiday promo plan TiVo will obviously know both the TSN (since the purchaser has to provide it to activate it) and the fact that it was activated under the holiday promo. So again, TiVo can "mark" that TSN forever if it so chooses.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

tcfcameron said:


> That rep claimed they could tell by the SKU, as well as the TSN, what pricing/plan options were available.


I presume what the rep meant was that they can use the SKU to see if it's a Premier or some other model.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

tcfcameron said:


> The ONLY reason that I see for anybody to get so very worked up over posting that a resold $99 Promo Premiere, will subject the new owner to a rate of $19.95/month, would be that reselling is something they intended, and now those persons feel that I am devaluing their product.


Would the new owner still retain the month to month commitment? If the new owner has to commit for 1 year, then the resale value of a $99 premiere is greatly diminished. Also, can service be stopped and started at will after the commitment is complete. I could see people wanting these units for summer homes where they can activate them for only a few months out of the year.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> Would the new owner still retain the month to month commitment? If the new owner has to commit for 1 year, then the resale value of a $99 premiere is greatly diminished. Also, can service be stopped and started at will after the commitment is complete. I could see people wanting these units for summer homes where they can activate them for only a few months out of the year.


Good point I had not though of.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> Would the new owner still retain the month to month commitment? If the new owner has to commit for 1 year, then the resale value of a $99 premiere is greatly diminished.


It seems to me that the one year commitment would also be applied to the new owner (as a new activation on the new owner's account, unless the Premiere is never taken off the previous owner's account.)



shwru980r said:


> Also, can service be stopped and started at will after the commitment is complete. I could see people wanting these units for summer homes where they can activate them for only a few months out of the year.


Now that is a good question! If stopped, would a new activation be required to get the service going again, and thus be subject to another one year commitment?


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

petew said:


> I presume what the rep meant was that they can use the SKU to see if it's a Premier or some other model.


The SKU isn't needed. The first 3 digits of the TSN provide the same information. But, yes, if all one had was the SKU, it would work for determining the model.


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## tcfcameron (Aug 4, 2010)

shwru980r said:


> Would the new owner still retain the month to month commitment? If the new owner has to commit for 1 year, then the resale value of a $99 premiere is greatly diminished. Also, can service be stopped and started at will after the commitment is complete. I could see people wanting these units for summer homes where they can activate them for only a few months out of the year.


I don't know for sure. I think that it may depend on whether or not the new owner is new to TiVo, an existing customer, and/or the other service plans they already have. The only constant (seems to be) the $19.95/month rate.

I really don't see TiVo letting a new customer, who has purchased a used, or third-party-new, poison-TSN promo Premiere, just be able to pay 1 month at a time, without a commitment.

I'm trying to get a better idea of how, exactly, and at what point, exactly, does the TSN of these units become marked/poisoned. Until I know that, I still have more questions, than I do answers.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

I posted this in another thread, but it fits better here...

I think it would work IF the price was just a bit less than the standard cable co price. They had been touting how much better, and cheaper, TiVo is versus the cable co dvr up until this new change. If the monthly price had been $16.95, with a $99 box, even for two years, I think it would be more appealing to new customers.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep, I've said that more than once - $20/mo. is too much and the average person is not going to see paying $99 + $20/mo. is a deal when the cable DVR costs nothing upfront and less per month. Plus they're getting free maintenance and upgrades. 

They don't know how much better a Tivo is anyway, just look at all of the suckers that rent the cable junk now.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Tom Rogers just said in his conference call that they will lose $8 million this quarter due to the "Holiday Pricing" (offset by future increased service fees). Continuation of this pricing beyond 12-31-10 will be reviewed by them.


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## bobcov (Nov 27, 2010)

hahnwo said:


> Having trouble getting a direct answer anywhere, maybe because it is unknown.
> 
> I own 3 Tivo's already, 1 Lifetime and 2 on MSD for $9.95 a month.
> 
> ...


Anybody, is it possible to buy the annual $129 plan without speaking to Tivo on the phone? They're closed now and I've been looking for a link for that plan. When I try to sign up on their site, I only get $12.95 a month as an option.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

Folks, this topic has been discussed thoroughly in the BRAND NEW TIVO Premiere $ 95 thread. The new plan discussion starts at post #37.


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## grafton (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm glad tivo had the 2 year down for the premiere, i have reliable monthly income but currently nowhere enough to grab a premiere + lifetime, the best deal if you keep it for 3+ years imho vs the guesstimated after commitment pricing for both the 99 + 1yr and the 2 year commitment


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

If I already owned a premiere, I would buy one of these $99 units and keep it in the attic for spare parts.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

shwru980r said:


> If I already owned a premiere, I would buy one of these $99 units and keep it in the attic for spare parts.


And if a lot of people do that TiVo will have a BIG loss, as i bet TiVo has at least a $50 to $75 (or more) loss on each $99 box before activation , remember the retailer has some profit in the $99 or they would not carry the product. I am going to do just what you said, than i have an extra remote, 360Gb hard drive, extra power supply, etc. I now 4 activated (with PLS) TPs so it is worth the $97 investment. (Amazon is now at $97 for the TP)


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Tivo would have been better off advertising this as "Get a Premiere for the discounted price of $168.96 when you pay 24 no-interest payments of $7.04. (Regular $12.95 monthly service plan required.)" Doesn't sound quite as sexy as "$0 down!" but it spells it out better.

I still think both the one and two year deals are a good deal for those who plan to pay monthly anyway (assuming you will be able to switch to a regular monthly plan at the end of the one or two years.) It would be nice if they had more options for yearly plans, lifetime, etc. but obviously that's not what they want to push right now. That's their prerogative I think.


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