# Mad Men - Season 5 Episode 1



## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

Placeholder for the new season, EP1.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Nooooo don't do a season thread! Do episode threads pleeeeeease! I can't watch tonight so have fun!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Will mix up a Manhattan soon!


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

photoshopgrl said:


> Nooooo don't do a season thread! Do episode threads pleeeeeease! I can't watch tonight so have fun!


So, is that better? S5E1?


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

jsmeeker said:


> Will mix up a Manhattan soon!


Do it! And, while you're at it, mix one up for me!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mm2margaret said:


> Do it!


haven't started to watch yet


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

WTF ? Why isn't AMC on DirecTV channel 254 in HD !?!?

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2894/~/does-directv-offer-amc-hd?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Tem mine was in hd. I have directv.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Great episode!!

Best line -

Roger - "Why don't you dance like that?"

Roger's wife - "Why don't you look like him?"


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

betts4 said:


> Great episode!!
> 
> Best line -
> 
> ...


Yea, loved that too.

It looked like for a while that Don was going to blow it with his new wife.

But, maybe that's what new - Don Draper actually in love and happy? That can't last!


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Great episode? We waited 17 months for this? Sorry. Don Draper in love does not make for great drama.

Big disappointment here.


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> Tem mine was in hd. I have directv.


Very strange. My DVR said it recorded 254, which was in SD but when I go back to 254 now, it's in HD. I'll try deleting/re-adding the season pass -- it must have still been set to the old channel (?)


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

tem said:


> Very strange. My DVR said it recorded 254, which was in SD but when I go back to 254 now, it's in HD. I'll try deleting/re-adding the season pass -- it must have still been set to the old channel (?)


Yes. Old season passes record of the sd Amc for some reason. I had the issue with walking dead.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

*Question *- I have recorded this ep because, well, there has been such a big deal about this show coming back BUT I've never seen the show. Coming in at S05E01, will it be confusing or is it worthwhile starting to watch at this point? Thanks for any advise from the fans who've been watching all along. It sounds compelling, but I don't want to be any more clueless than I am already.


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

sharkster said:


> *Question *- I have recorded this ep because, well, there has been such a big deal about this show coming back BUT I've never seen the show. Coming in at S05E01, will it be confusing or is it worthwhile starting to watch at this point? Thanks for any advise from the fans who've been watching all along. It sounds compelling, but I don't want to be any more clueless than I am already.


It will at least give you a good idea if this is a show you would want to continue to watch, and maybe make you think about then starting at the beggining with season one episode one. I have seen every episode so far in order. To my mind this is the best television in recent years.


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## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

Bob Coxner said:


> Great episode? We waited 17 months for this? Sorry. Don Draper in love does not make for great drama.
> 
> Big disappointment here.


Agree with this. The pacing was just odd to me. It was almost 2 hours of hit and run schtick. At least Betty was nowhere to be found.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Bob Coxner said:


> Great episode? We waited 17 months for this? Sorry. Don Draper in love does not make for great drama.
> 
> Big disappointment here.


Really? Don Draper in love in the first episode may not be great drama, but I bet they have something cooked up for him.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

I thought it was a little weak for 2 hours. I think they've set up some good stuff with Pete and Roger.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

I liked Joan and her mom-

You're not exactly at your fighting weight...

Try me!!!


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

sharkster said:


> Coming in at S05E01, will it be confusing or is it worthwhile starting to watch at this point?


I was thinking about this last night. I can't imagine starting now would be rewarding at all. The characters' storylines are way too far along.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Great episode!!
> 
> Best line -
> 
> ...


Roger's other great line as he's walking towards Joan and the baby: "There's my baby!"  

Great episode. I wish my wife would zoobey-zoo me! No, you can't have this, you have to sit over there and watch me clean the apartment!  I'm not buying Don's reason for not wanting a surprise party - because he doesn't want his coworkers in his house?

Did they get a new Bobby Draper? I haven't compared the cast listing yet.

Loved Don's line to Sally as he drops the kids at a very Addams Family-looking house: "Say hello to Gomez and Morticia."


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I was confused as to the ad. Was it supposed to be a joke? I didn't get it. Was there something I missed???


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Yes, it was a joke. Their competitor were the ones throwing the water bombs on the protestors at the beginning. So to rub salt in their public wound SCDP ran the ad that basically said, "We're not racist like those other guys."

Of course, the ad somewhat backfired and because they actually are as racist as the other group they had to figure out how to handle the spot they put themselves in.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

TiVo'Brien said:


> Did they get a new Bobby Draper? I haven't compared the cast listing yet.


He's credited the same. Looking at the actor, he's changed his appearance a lot.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

Sepinwall liked the episode much better than I did: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/mad-men-a-little-kiss-im-a-man-im-40

Another poster mentioned pacing. That bothered me almost as much as anything. It just didn't have the Mad Men feel to the pacing. Sepinwall explains that these were really filmed as two episodes and will be broken up for repeats (and we only get 11 more this season). That partially explains it.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Any episode(s) without Betty Draper is a good one in my book.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

TiVo'Brien said:


> Great episode. I wish my wife would zoobey-zoo me! No, you can't have this, you have to sit over there and watch me clean the apartment!


I loved that. It took me a minute to get it, but once she put her backside up in the air I knew it was all over! I like that she is a "nice" girl on the outside but can show another side to her. I think she is a good mix of boring betty and a few of Don's other women.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

The commercials every few minutes bugged me. Even though they were not long gaps of time, I would rather have had a lot of show then a long break rather than the bunch of short breaks.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Bob Coxner said:


> It just didn't have the Mad Men feel to the pacing.


Pacing wasn't ponderous enough for you?

It's always been too slow for me.


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

Peter000 said:


> Pacing wasn't ponderous enough for you?
> 
> It's always been too slow for me.


A few thoughts:

*For the folks who haven't watched before:*
Mad Men is a character driven period piece, about America during a tumultuous time of change (the 60's) - lots of change. In many ways, it's very similar to Downton Abbey in that Downton is a character driven period piece that is uniquely British, during a tumultuous time in Britain's history.

Whether or not you like it depends a lot on whether or not you find the characters interesting, as they interact during that time period. I was a kid during that time (I guess I'm aging myself), and it was both a fascinating time and a horrible and difficult time. Mad Men goes into great detail to make sure everything about the time period as they present it is authentic, and gives you a real view of that time. So, I find it compelling for a number of reasons.

But, I wouldn't think you could view just one show and find it captivating. Like most character driven shows, I think you have to view a series of episodes to see if the characters and the story grab you or not.

*As for Don Draper being in love:*
Well, I think I misled some by indicating in an earlier post that he appears in love. In actuality, the way it's played, he appears in lust, not love. I think a real open question would be can Don Draper really love anyone. I don't think he can, but I guess we'll see. He's managed to destroy almost every relationship he's had with all the girls and women in his life (with the exception of only one I can think of, and she's dead), and I suspect he'll manage to destroy this one too. He is, after all, a liar, a deserter, who regularly and ongoingly, serially cheated on his wife, right?

*Highlights for me from last nights 2 Hour season premiere:*
The Party: zoobey zoo! Nicely done, but I almost felt it was out of place. I, like many others, really didn't understand or believe why Don D really didn't like his surprise party. But what a view of the time! With the dresses, clothes and colorful garb it was wonderful.

Peggy's comment earlier on that she didn't like the "new" Draper. Jealous? Or was it a comment that Don Draper in love, or lust, wasn't as good at his job as the older darker Don Draper was?

Is Roger on his way out? That seems to be a new more central theme for the new season. Roger fans, be wary....I, for one, would greatly miss the Joan and Roger scenes.


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## David Ortiz (Jul 8, 2002)

TiVo'Brien said:


> Loved Don's line to Sally as he drops the kids at a very Addams Family-looking house: "Say hello to Gomez and Morticia."


It was Morticia and Lurch.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

mm2margaret said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> *Highlights for me from last nights 2 Hour season premiere:*
> The Party: zoobey zoo! Nicely done, but I almost felt it was out of place. I, like many others, really didn't understand or believe why Don D really didn't like his surprise party. But what a view of the time! With the dresses, clothes and colorful garb it was wonderful.
> ...


I don't get why people don't understand Don not liking a surprise party. There are lots of people I have met that don't like them. I didn't find it unusual. I loved Roger stumbling about it outside the door.

Peggy has always seemed a little jealous when Don has a new woman. Their relationship is the one I love the most.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

mm2margaret said:


> Is Roger on his way out? That seems to be a new more central theme for the new season. Roger fans, be wary....I, for one, would greatly miss the Joan and Roger scenes.


Bert was already superfluous. Without Lucky Strike, now Roger is too.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

"i don't recognize this man. He's kind and patient!" what a great line. 

I liked the episode, interesting stuff went on. Megan apparently knows all about Dick Whitman now, even his real birthday. Loved the prank Pete pulled on Roger with the 6am Staten Island meeting.

So the question i have is what was the deal with the Asian looking bust that came with a resume attached at the end? I didn't get it. Was it making fun of the Chinese immigrants who worked the railroads? I didn't see why it would have impacted/offended the Blacks in the reception area. anybody have any thoughts?


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

milo99 said:


> So the question i have is what was the deal with the Asian looking bust that came with a resume attached at the end? I didn't get it.


The statue is African, or an African knockoff. Compare to something like this statue from Cameroon:


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

> I liked the episode, interesting stuff went on. Megan apparently knows all about Dick Whitman now, *even his real birthday*. Loved the prank Pete pulled on Roger with the 6am Staten Island meeting.


Oh, I am so dense! This is why he doesn't like his birthday, much less a surprise birthday party...<duh>....a reminder of who and what he really is and his past....

And yes! The prank Pete pulls on Roger is priceless...


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

*JGMack* - Thanks so much for your response. I know that some shows are difficult to enter in the middle because the backstories are so intricate that you come in with great confusion and an inability to understand the characters.

*Meagan* - Thank You very much for your write up. I'm going to watch the ep and see how I feel about continuing. Maybe I can go back and find the other seasons if I find the characters interesting. I am also compelled by the 60s era part. I, too, was growing up during that time (having been born in the mid 50s) and I was interested by your assessment of that time. I, too, thought it was a fascinating time yet (for me anyway) it was a horrific time. I'd like to re-visit it without it being through the lens of my childhood from hell.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Peggy has always seemed a little jealous when Don has a new woman. Their relationship is the one I love the most.


I loved that within the first 10 minutes you had Peggy muttering "sh*t" out loud in the office, that was new for sure, in the past she wouldn't have been so bold.

I also loved Pete playing Roger with the 6AM Staten Island appointment.

Other than that, it felt very Mad Men, but Weiner's episodes are always a bit different than the average ones, and I view that as a good thing, in a way a more "pure" version of his vision.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Sally Draper's voice is almost as deep as mine. Was that another new Bobby Draper?

Burt looks disturbingly like Colonel Sanders.

This episode was basically Don being a dick for two hours with some humorous parts thrown in.

Hopefully the rest of the season will be less Megan-centric.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

oh by the way, did anybody else think the audio was a bit annoying- as in, the background musing was loud, drowning out the vocals a bit? i had to turn up the volume more than i wanted to in order to hear what people were saying, resulting in really loud background noise.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Milo - I went to answer my phone because they were so loud in the show. Then did it again about an hour later. D'oh!

Oh and the prank Pete pulled on Roger was brillant! 

The scenes with Pete on the train playing cards was right on. My dad used to do that when we lived in Northern NJ and he commuted everyday into Manhattan.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

milo99 said:


> Loved the prank Pete pulled on Roger with the 6am Staten Island meeting.


:up::up:


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

It was a new Bobby Draper - the old one is the kid Henry on Once Upon A Time.

The new Bobby looked SO familiar, though - gotta see if I can find out where I have seen him before...


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Bob Coxner said:


> Great episode? We waited 17 months for this? Sorry. Don Draper in love does not make for great drama.
> 
> Big disappointment here.


Actually it makes for amazing drama. Don draper's cynicism is what has driven the success for the business for a long time. It is clear Don gives two flips about work now and has replaced his obsession with work with an obsession with his wife.

We are seeing the tornado just starting to form that is going to wreak mass havoc. Pete is on the verge of flipping out, Don and Roger's dynamic is starting to change in a way that potentially makes them incompatible, Roger and Don spend their own money like it is going out of style while the company is terribly strapped.

I think this was an excellent table setter and Don being in love as he is ( more obsessed than in love, look how roger treats his trophy wife now) potentially leads to massive issues.

I really enjoyed it and it was the highest rated episode of the show ever.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

mm2margaret said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> *For the folks who haven't watched before:*
> Mad Men is a character driven period piece, about America during a tumultuous time of change (the 60's) - lots of change. In many ways, it's very similar to Downton Abbey in that Downton is a character driven period piece that is uniquely British, during a tumultuous time in Britain's history.
> ...


You don't need to lecture me. (I can't speak for anyone else. )

I've been watching since the beginning.

But it takes more than just some entertaining characters in period costumes smoking & drinking to make a show riveting. It takes a good story with actual plotting, which I've found Mad Men to lack at certain times.

Sometimes I want more than just Don Draper going through... whatever he's going through.

But enough criticism. Oh, wait, just one more thing...

Totally unrelated... Peggy? Maybe the dancing bean idea just wasn't any good and you have to move on. Really? Dancing beans?

But on the whole I enjoyed catching up with the characters, seeing where they were. Loved Lane Price's scene with Joan... a great friendship there. And I enjoyed easy-going Don, though something always seems to be boiling under the surface.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

The clothes at the party were FABULOUS!

I would love to wear some of those dresses now. Especially Meagan's - it was gorgeous!


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

lambertman said:


> I was thinking about this last night. I can't imagine starting now would be rewarding at all. The characters' storylines are way too far along.


I might second that, especially with characters current behavior being different from past behavior would be totally lost.



Bryanmc said:


> Yes, it was a joke. Their competitor were the ones throwing the water bombs on the protestors at the beginning. So to rub salt in their public wound SCDP ran the ad that basically said, "We're not racist like those other guys."
> 
> Of course, the ad somewhat backfired and because they actually are as racist as the other group they had to figure out how to handle the spot they put themselves in.


I wondered why nobody brought up the money spent on that prank.



mm2margaret said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> For the folks who haven't watched before:
> Mad Men is a character driven period piece, about America during a tumultuous time of change (the 60's) - lots of change. In many ways, it's very similar to Downton Abbey in that Downton is a character driven period piece that is uniquely British, during a tumultuous time in Britain's history.
> ...


I agree with you on both don and roger. I see don and roger come to odds when things really get tough.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> The clothes at the party were FABULOUS!
> 
> I would love to wear some of those dresses now. Especially Meagan's - it was gorgeous!


Trudy sure looked a whole lot better at the party than she did in her housecoat at home. :up: It was almost like she was pregnant again in that housecoat. :down: Apparently Pete is noticing, too.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> The commercials every few minutes bugged me. Even though they were not long gaps of time, I would rather have had a lot of show then a long break rather than the bunch of short breaks.


Really? I thought it was just like any other episode of Mad Men. The commercial breaks were all about 4-5 minutes, based on the number of 30-second skip button presses, so unless they shortened the episodes and sold more ads (doubt Weiner would ever agree to that), then nothing was different from previous episodes.


mm2margaret said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> *Highlights for me from last nights 2 Hour season premiere:*
> The Party: zoobey zoo! Nicely done, but I almost felt it was out of place. *I, like many others, really didn't understand or believe why Don D really didn't like his surprise party.* But what a view of the time! With the dresses, clothes and colorful garb it was wonderful.


I thought this was VERY in character for Don. He hates to be the center of attention, unless it's in a situation that he's in control of. He's never liked attending parties, and for him to be surprised by one, and to then have to be the guest of honor, that shouldn't surprise anyone that this pissed Don off.



milo99 said:


> I liked the episode, interesting stuff went on. Megan apparently knows all about Dick Whitman now, even his real birthday. Loved the prank Pete pulled on Roger with the 6am Staten Island meeting.


I was surprised by this. He's only been with Megan for 6-8 months, and he's already confided something in her that was his deepest, darkest secret for his entire adult life before that? I find that very out of character for Don/Dick.

I agree with others that the dynamic between Pete and Roger is going to be very interesting to watch. Pete's clearly the only partner who is willing to work hard to make the company a success, and he's the only one that's not a full partner.

Also funny was Bert Cooper still just hanging around the office but not having an office of his own.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

marksman said:


> I wondered why nobody brought up the money spent on that prank.


Didn't Bert make a somewhat scolding remark about it? [something on the order of... _This company doesn't have money to throw away on a joke, just to embarrass our competitors_]


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> I was surprised by this. He's only been with Megan for 6-8 months, and he's already confided something in her that was his deepest, darkest secret for his entire adult life before that? I find that very out of character for Don/Dick.


I was momentarily surprised too. While he may have decided this new relationship should be secret-free, Megan is actually the 6th person in Don's life who knows his truth... Anna, Stephanie [Anna's niece], Pete, Betty, Bert and Faye. [the last two, if not every detail, at least enough to be on the list] The "telling" of a deeply private truth gets easier with every telling.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

avery said:


> I was momentarily surprised too. While he may have decided this new relationship should be secret-free, Megan is actually the 6th person in Don's life who knows his truth... Anna, Stephanie [Anna's niece], Pete, Betty, Bert and Faye. [the last two, if not every detail, at least enough to be on the list] The "telling" of a deeply private truth gets easier with every telling.


I don't remember the circumstances of Faye knowing about his secret. But the others only had the information they had because of circumstances, not because Don voluntarily told them.

*Anna and Stephanie:* Because they had obviously known the real Don Draper.
*Pete:* Because he was snooping around Don's desk. We don't know how much Pete knew other than that "Don Draper" was probably not Don's real identity. I don't remember whether Don even knows that Pete knows anything.
*Bert:* Because Pete tried to get Don fired/demoted by telling Bert about the false identity, but Bert didn't want to hear it, so he probably knows less than Pete. I don't remember whether Don even knows that Bert knows anything.
*Betty:* Because she found Don's box of memorabilia, so he broke down and told her the truth.

So in reality, Don's only told one person prior to Megan, and that was only because she forced him into it. I'm still surprised that Don has been so open with Megan in such a short period of time. I don't think there's any way this doesn't blow up in his face sometime down the road.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Harry's new glasses look almost identical to the glasses my father had in 1966.



DevdogAZ said:


> The commercial breaks were all about 4-5 minutes, based on the number of 30-second skip button presses, so unless they shortened the episodes and sold more ads (doubt Weiner would ever agree to that), then nothing was different from previous episodes.


I believe they _did_ sell more ads -- hence why the episode ran 2:08.

I don't know why networks haven't figured out a strategy for selling fewer ads for more money based on a "less clutter" pitch, but whatever.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

trainman said:


> I believe they _did_ sell more ads -- hence why the episode ran 2:08.


Well, that makes my point. They didn't shorten the segments of the show, they just added more commercials in the breaks. Weiner would never compromise the show by allowing it to be shortened, so they had to increase the overall running time.


trainman said:


> I don't know why networks haven't figured out a strategy for selling fewer ads for more money based on a "less clutter" pitch, but whatever.


FOX tried that when Fringe first aired, and it didn't go over very well.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

nyny523 said:


> The new Bobby looked SO familiar, though - gotta see if I can find out where I have seen him before...


Is he the kid from Desperate Housewives? I watched an episode of that with my wife directly before watching Mad Men and I thought the kid looked the same.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't remember the circumstances of Faye knowing about his secret. But the others only had the information they had because of circumstances, not because Don voluntarily told them.
> 
> *Anna and Stephanie:* Because they had obviously known the real Don Draper.
> *Pete:* Because he was snooping around Don's desk. We don't know how much Pete knew other than that "Don Draper" was probably not Don's real identity. I don't remember whether Don even knows that Pete knows anything.
> ...


Faye did not "force him into it". He volunteered the info to her. It was during the episode when the government was interviewing people he knew to get him clearance for working with a defense contractor. He was freaking out that he would get caught and sent to jail for desertion or worse. So he told Faye.

I think this was when he realized he would never be happy until he accepted who he really was. In "The Suitcase", when he learns of Anna's death, he kept saying she was the only person who really knew him. And I think he felt like she was the only person who ever really loved HIM.

His relationship with Megan is interesting, because she is the first woman with whom he shared the secret willingly. Not because he was "caught" (Betty), or because he was afraid (Faye), but because he wanted to be honest. Honest Don is new. Honest Don will be interesting to watch, because we have never really seen him before. He isn't really Don now - he is Dick. It will be interesting to see who Dick is, compared to who Don was.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

I was wondering if Don told Megan about Dick so Betty couldn't blackmail him... or if he truly loves Megan and wants no secrets between them... We shall see...

Interesting crack about having kids when Joan came to visit - someone told Megan "It's just a matter of time for you.." and Don said, "I think I'll quit when I'm ahead..." - I guess that's some foreshadowing...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Really? I thought it was just like any other episode of Mad Men. The commercial breaks were all about 4-5 minutes, based on the number of 30-second skip button presses, so unless they shortened the episodes and sold more ads (doubt Weiner would ever agree to that), then nothing was different from previous episodes.


Ah. Okay. I am late coming to the party. I watched all four seasons on Netflix this fall. It just seemed different in the timing.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I'm not going to do an in-depth study on it but it felt to me like there were more commercials than usual and they seemed to be happening more often as the broadcast went on.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> Ah. Okay. I am late coming to the party. I watched all four seasons on Netflix this fall. It just seemed different in the timing.


Yes, I guess if you've watched all the previous episodes without commercial breaks, I can see how these would seem out of place.

This isn't a show where it's structured to have something dramatic at every act break to bring the audience back after the commercials. This show doesn't have a lot of action and is definitely not plot-driven. So if the commercials were edited out from all the previous episodes you watched, you probably couldn't tell which scene cuts were act breaks and which were just scene cuts.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> I'm not going to do an in-depth study on it but it felt to me like there were more commercials than usual and they seemed to be happening more often as the broadcast went on.


That's also pretty common, especially for AMC shows. It's very common to have 10+ minutes at the beginning of the episode with no breaks, and then for them to make up for that by having the act breaks closer together toward the end of the episode.


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## Regina (Mar 30, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> The clothes at the party were FABULOUS!
> 
> I would love to wear some of those dresses now. Especially Meagan's - it was gorgeous!


..yes! And her makeup was right in vogue too! She could fit in at any party right now!


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

Regina said:


> ..yes! And her makeup was right in vogue too! She could fit in at any party right now!


Me too on the dresses! I could probably use one or two at work.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Bryanmc said:


> Is he the kid from Desperate Housewives? I watched an episode of that with my wife directly before watching Mad Men and I thought the kid looked the same.


Yes he's JJ - Susan and Mike's kid and I have never thought the kid could act


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Bob Coxner said:


> Great episode? We waited 17 months for this? Sorry. Don Draper in love does not make for great drama.
> 
> Big disappointment here.


I agree, after a year and a half wait I was expecting something a little more special. Not a lot of laughs either. Usually at least Bert or Roger have something stupid to say. I chuckled at the use of apparent blooper footage when the baby farted, but other than that it was a rather sour and tame restart.

I agree with everybody else that not seeing Betty was a plus. I had managed to push that entire storyline out of my head until the "previously on" splashed to the screen.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> It's very common to have 10+ minutes at the beginning of the episode with no breaks, and then for them to make up for that by having the act breaks closer together toward the end


I know that - but for whatever reason it seemed *more* excessive last night. It didn't feel like we were getting act breaks it began to feel like there was a break after short scenes.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

nyny523 said:


> It was a new Bobby Draper - the old one is the kid Henry on Once Upon A Time.


Shut the front door. I would have NEVER recognized him. So weird.

More thoughts on the episode from work tomorrow I'm too tired to type that much right now.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Several observations here --


If you haven't watched MM from the beginning, the obvious discomfort Peggy felt when holding the baby, especially with Pete there, would be lost on you.

I thought Don's displeasure at the party was perfectly in character (as several have mentioned). And he acted like a dick (as usual) afterward; I was (pleasantly) surprised Megan banged his socks off the next day.

The comedy interspersed with the drama was, I felt, quite well done. There were several laugh out loud moments for me.

 Oh, and yes, no Betty is a good thing. Very small doses will do me just fine this season.
Overall, the two hours plus went by VERY quickly for me...


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Harry is one odd dude.

Oldest "young" guy going. The furniture in his office? WTF? And I totally LOLed at his comments about what he would do to Meagan.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> Is he the kid from Desperate Housewives? I watched an episode of that with my wife directly before watching Mad Men and I thought the kid looked the same.


Omg...thank you! It was making me crazy - I knew I recognized him from somewhere!


----------



## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Ah. Okay. I am late coming to the party. I watched all four seasons on Netflix this fall. It just seemed different in the timing.


Duh, you now have commercials to watch/ff through!


----------



## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

Don is not in love. As already mentioned, he is in lust. I don't think it will last. They don't even know each other very well.

As for the party, I think it was absolutely in character for Don not to like it, be embarrassed by it, etc. When Megan was singing, I said something to my wife like "I wonder how he's going to react to this. He would have been mortified if Betty did that."

And it is strange to have commercial breaks. We watched seasons 1-4 on DVD.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Odds Bodkins said:


> Agree with this. The pacing was just odd to me. It was almost 2 hours of hit and run schtick. At least Betty was nowhere to be found.


It was really evident in the hallway scene where Joan showed up with the baby. It really felt like a play at that point. The way the characters were coming in and out passing off a "prop".

Biggest thing I noticed is you could tell these people had not been their characters in a very long time, everyone that is except Slattery. Either he is Roger or that great of an actor.


----------



## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

I wonder how many times Megan has sang that Zoobey zou song with Don's kids? That she does a sexy version makes it kind of weird.


----------



## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

DougF said:


> Don is not in love. As already mentioned, he is in lust. I don't think it will last. They don't even know each other very well.
> 
> As for the party, I think it was absolutely in character for Don not to like it, be embarrassed by it, etc. When Megan was singing, I said something to my wife like "I wonder how he's going to react to this. He would have been mortified if Betty did that...........


The thing is, _nowhere _in Dick Whitman's formative years was he ever loved or shown any affection. Because of this, Don doesn't know how to handle someone showing him affection as an adult. Don is stumbling through Megan's attempts to show love, but not having learned how to receive love and affection, Don's first reaction is to reject the affection - in this case a birthday party.

I think one of the themes we'll see this season is Don Draper learning how to love, both give and receive. Hence his growing disinterest in work - it's being replaced by something more meaningful, something he's never experienced before. We'll see it through his relationship with Megan and his affection for his kids. More interesting, though, will be how well Don does at _receiving _the affection his childhood taught him he doesn't deserve.


----------



## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

TiVo'Brien said:


> The thing is, _nowhere _in Dick Whitman's formative years was he ever loved or shown any affection. Because of this, Don doesn't know how to handle someone showing him affection as an adult. Don is stumbling through Megan's attempts to show love, but not having learned how to receive love and affection, Don's first reaction is to reject the affection - in this case a birthday party.
> 
> I think one of the themes we'll see this season is Don Draper learning how to love, both give and receive. Hence his growing disinterest in work - it's being replaced by something more meaningful, something he's never experienced before. We'll see it through his relationship with Megan and his affection for his kids. More interesting, though, will be how well Don does at _receiving _the affection his childhood taught him he doesn't deserve.


That touches on another point I made to my wife while watching. If this lasts and Don really is in love, will he lose his edge as an ad man?


----------



## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

Did Pete & Trudy move into the Drapers old Ossining home? It looks so similar!


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

lpamelaa said:


> Did Pete & Trudy move into the Drapers old Ossining home? It looks so similar!


No, he's living in Connecticut somewhere (from the train scenes), but yeah, I think they reused some of the set decoration. I also think they are deliberately trying to show Pete in similar circumstances to Don from earlier seasons.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I officially hate Jane. I didn't like her before but when Roger asked why she didn't sing or dance (can't remember which he actually said) like Megan and she replied with "Why don't you look like him" I yelled at the TV, "***** that is ROGER EFFING STERLING!" Bah! He needs to dump her like yesterday. I did like him telling her to shut up as he was getting dressed for Staten Island....... which of course was funny even though I like Roger immensely more than Pete. 

Speaking of, Pete and Peggy standing with Joan's baby was priceless. So awkward and filled with so much tension. It's pretty clear Peggy is not mother material. She couldn't lose that baby fast enough.

WTF is up with Lane? That picture is going to get him into real trouble. For what? He's never met the woman and likely never will. His wife is already far out of his league and moved her entire life to the states after clearly not wanting to do so. Tsk Tsk. 

I personally thought we spent far too much time at Joan's house with her baby and mother. I really don't care about any of that. I only care about Joan so far as how she fits in with Roger and the rest of the people at work. Her husband is probably going to die anyhow, then she'll end up with Roger after he boots that shrew of a wife. 

Trudy looked horrible in that housecoat. She looked rather large too. She looked much different at the party though. 

And last but not least LOL at Harry describing what he'd do to Megan. Well girl, don't be mad when men act like that after you give that kind of a show in front of them all.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Speaking of Jane, has the actress gained a lot of weight, or is that 'fat' makeup? Jane was much more attractive when she first arrived on the scene. Now she looks greatly overfed.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> WTF is up with Lane? That picture is going to get him into real trouble. For what? He's never met the woman and likely never will. His wife is already far out of his league and moved her entire life to the states after clearly not wanting to do so. Tsk Tsk.


I have no idea what is up with the photo but they are going broke somehow.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

marksman said:


> I wondered why nobody brought up the money spent on that prank.


Roger paid for it.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

marksman said:


> I wondered why nobody brought up the money spent on that prank.





Robin said:


> Roger paid for it.


Yep. Roger said something to the effect of "You write it up and I'll pay for it." Although they never brought it up again, since Lane didn't complain about the firm paying for it, I assume that's how it played out.

I kind of agree that something felt... off about the premiere. Maybe because it's been so long since I've watched an ep of the show that I am not used to the pacing. Or maybe it's because with Don "in love" the whole vibe is thrown off, on purpose. Not sure yet.

Excellent job by the makeup/wardrobe department making Alison Brie look homely. That's hard to do. 

I really enjoyed Joan's scene Lane. Bang-up work by Christina Hendricks.


----------



## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Re: don in love. Anyone else notice peggy describes him as "kind and patient"?

" Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud"


----------



## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> .......I really enjoyed Joan's scene Lane. Bang-up work by Christina Hendricks.


Yes, that scene where Lane comforts Joan in his office and allays her fears was very well done by everyone involved. :up:


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I agree about Joan and Lane, which is another reason I don't like the baby & mother sub-plot. She needs to get back to work asap. That's where she's great to watch and I love her interaction and chemistry with the others. 

And I won't complain yet because I can't see it lasting but I don't like happy and in love Don.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Speaking of, Pete and Peggy standing with Joan's baby was priceless. So awkward and filled with so much tension. It's pretty clear Peggy is not mother material. She couldn't lose that baby fast enough.
> 
> Trudy looked horrible in that housecoat. She looked rather large too. She looked much different at the party though.


What about when Peggy asked what she should do with the baby and Megan replied, "drop it off on a church doorstep". Think that hit close to home?

As for Trudy, she doesn't seem to be even the same actor that is in Community.


----------



## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

Bryanmc said:


> Yes, it was a joke. Their competitor were the ones throwing the water bombs on the protestors at the beginning. So to rub salt in their public wound SCDP ran the ad that basically said, "We're not racist like those other guys."
> 
> Of course, the ad somewhat backfired and because *they actually are as racist as the other group *they had to figure out how to handle the spot they put themselves in.


Roger - "is it me or is the lobby full of *******?"

Yes, I thought the background sounds were unusually loud.

Lane and the picture....???

I enjoyed the episode but before jumping to conclusions concerning Don in love or anyone else, we need to let the rest of the season develop.


----------



## Wheens (Jan 1, 2003)

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012...s-about-zou-bisou-bisou/?mod=google_news_blog
Video at the bottom of the article.


----------



## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

tiams said:


> As for Trudy, she doesn't seem to be even the same actor that is in Community.


That's because we didn't see any cleavage.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Wheens said:


> http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012...s-about-zou-bisou-bisou/?mod=google_news_blog
> Video at the bottom of the article.


Seriously? Come on, other than her obvious talents, singing is not one of them.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Seriously? Come on, other than her obvious talents, singing is not one of them.


I tend to agree, she is not a singer - but, boy, do I want that dress!!!


----------



## avery (May 29, 2006)

Regina said:


> ..yes! And her makeup was right in vogue too! She could fit in at any party right now!


Yes! Megan was not only fashionable, she was very _fashion-forward._ Everything she wore was spot-on perfect for the era - including makeup and hair. Not positive, but I think even her shoes were low heeled rather than the _on-their-way-out_ stilettos. All the other women looked on-the-cusp, as far as fashion... tried and failed [Jane], in spirit, could have been something Betty would have worn, a year or two ago [Peggy] or stuck in 1964-65 [Ken's wife].

I was particularly disappointed that the wardrober put Peggy in that skirt and boring white shirt for the office.

Oh, and the Draper apartment is fabulous!


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

avery said:


> Yes! Megan was not only fashionable, she was very fashion-forward. Everything outfit she wore was spot-on perfect for the era  including makeup and hair. Not positive, but I think even her shoes were low heeled rather than the on-their-way-out stilettos. All the other women looked on-the-cusp, as far as fashion... tried and failed [Jane], in spirit, could have been something Betty would have worn, a year or two ago [Peggy] or stuck in 1964-65 [Ken's wife].
> 
> I was particularly disappointed that the wardrober put Peggy in that skirt and boring white shirt for the office.
> 
> Oh, and the Draper apartment is fabulous!


I think they dress Peggy poorly on purpose. At least, I hope it is on purpose because her entire wardrobe is drab and boring.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

trainman said:


> I believe they _did_ sell more ads -- hence why the episode ran 2:08.





DevdogAZ said:


> Well, that makes my point. They didn't shorten the segments of the show, they just added more commercials in the breaks.


Without commercials the show was actually 92 minutes long. So an air time of 2:08 means that there were 36 minutes of commercials. Zoobey-zoobey-zoo!*

*Oops! Apparently it is "Zou Bisou Bisou".
Mon dieu!


----------



## avery (May 29, 2006)

mwhip said:


> I have no idea what is up with the photo but they are going broke somehow.


I got the distinct impression that because Lane had to bring his family back to NY [despite that his wife hated it here] and due to the business' struggling financial situation, he's created a pretense about their actual income. She commented that he didn't want her to "use the charges", which is why she asked him for cash. [_that *tip* from the wallet guy came in handy_!]


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I did like the look on Don's face as he was shaving with his new birthday present. It seemed very much a smile of a dad happy with his kids.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

nyny523 said:


> I think they dress Peggy poorly on purpose. At least, I hope it is on purpose because her entire wardrobe is drab and boring.


I think so too. Yet, there have been episodes where they started doing better with Peggy's look and now, with fashion about to undergo a huge shift, she's stuck looking like a schoolgirl again. [although the black dress she wore for the Heinz scene wasn't too bad  by contrast]


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

avery said:


> I think so too. Yet, there have been episodes where they started doing better with Peggy's look and now, with fashion about to undergo a huge shift, she's stuck looking like a schoolgirl again. [although the black dress she wore for the Heinz scene wasn't too bad  by contrast]


That dress was at least a year old...she wore it last season. A lot of her clothing is worn frequently and long past it's expiration. I do believe it is done purposely. But it is still drab and boring!


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Weren't Lane and his wife estranged? I thought she left him to go back to London. Did we see her come back before now?


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Weren't Lane and his wife estranged? I thought she left him to go back to London. Did we see her come back before now?


They were. At the end of last season (when the firm discovered they lost Lucky Strike) he was in London trying to get them to return.

This season starts a year later, so he must have convinced her at some point to return.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I did like the look on Don's face as he was shaving with his new birthday present. It seemed very much a smile of a dad happy with his kids.


I thought during the shaving/lathering scene that Don was reflecting on the milestone of 40 and the image of a white beard. Yet he had earlier admitted that he (Dick) had already been 40 for 6 months.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Weren't Lane and his wife estranged? I thought she left him to go back to London. Did we see her come back before now?


That's what I thought, too...I was gonna ask that question here, but you beat me to it. I don't ever recall her coming back to the US; I thought she'd left him for good, going back to the UK...



nyny523 said:


> ...At the end of last season (when the firm discovered they lost Lucky Strike) he was in London trying to get them to return.
> 
> This season starts a year later, so he must have convinced her at some point to return.


I guess I missed that or forgot...geez, it's been so long ago...


----------



## avery (May 29, 2006)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Weren't Lane and his wife estranged? I thought she left him to go back to London. Did we see her come back before now?


They were. She did. Now we see they're together again, in NY. (In "Hands and Knees" his father had *ordered* him to return to London and put his _house in order_)


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I just re-watched the entire first 4 seasons over the past few weeks, so it is all pretty fresh in my mind. 

That is why I recognized Peggy's dress. My first thought was - is she STILL wearing that same dress??? I know she doesn't have a lot of money, but seriously! And when she does get something new, it is usually terrible. I don't think she dresses like a girl anymore (as in Season 1 and even Season 2), but she always looks so dowdy. I was hoping that she would be somewhat influenced by Faye, who was a single career woman, but who dressed chic and professional.


----------



## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

getreal said:


> I thought during the shaving/lathering scene that Don was reflecting on the milestone of 40 and the image of a white beard. Yet he had earlier admitted that he (Dick) had already been 40 for 6 months.


I interpreted it as him feeling more enjoyment from the small simple shaving brush that his children got him, contrasted with his obvious dislike for the big expensive party his wife put together.

Although when he was disappointed with Megan and beginning to withdraw from her, she knew exactly what to do to reel him back in with that cleaning scene (which I am surprised nobody has commented on yet).

All Don has to do is go back to heavy drinking again, and everything will fly off the handle again.....


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

DeDondeEs said:


> Although when he was disappointed with Megan and beginning to withdraw from her, she knew exactly what to do to reel him back in with that cleaning scene (which I am surprised nobody has commented on yet).


On the first page. Post 25? 27? (I am not going back to check).


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

betts4 said:


> I did like the look on Don's face as he was shaving with his new birthday present. It seemed very much a smile of a dad happy with his kids.


That's how I saw it, too.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

getreal said:


> Without commercials the show was actually 92 minutes long. So an air time of 2:08 means that there were 36 minutes of commercials.


Thanks for the calculation. 42 minutes of show/18 minutes of commercials is pretty typical for a prime-time TV "hour" these days, so that makes sense. (And I guess it's nice to see that AMC didn't succumb to temptation and do, say, 44 minutes of show/20 minutes of commercials.)

Next week's episode is scheduled to last 1:04, so I guess the 46 minutes of show/18 minutes of commercials per "Mad Men" hour is going to continue.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

avery said:


> Yes! Megan was not only fashionable, she was very fashion-forward. Everything outfit she wore was spot-on perfect for the era  including makeup and hair. Not positive, but I think even her shoes were low heeled rather than the on-their-way-out stilettos. All the other women looked on-the-cusp, as far as fashion... tried and failed [Jane], in spirit, could have been something Betty would have worn, a year or two ago [Peggy] or stuck in 1964-65 [Ken's wife].
> 
> I was particularly disappointed that the wardrober put Peggy in that skirt and boring white shirt for the office.
> 
> Oh, and the Draper apartment is fabulous!


Yeah i was mesmerized by their apartment. Was amazingly 60s.

One question I have is Pete and Trudy had this huge thing that looked sort of like a side-by-side oven in their kitchen but we could not figure out exactly what it was.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

marksman said:


> Yeah i was mesmerized by their apartment. Was amazingly 60s.
> 
> One question I have is Pete and Trudy had this huge thing that looked sort of like a side-by-side oven in their kitchen but we could not figure out exactly what it was.


It was a side-by-side oven. 

So you can cook things at different temperatures at the same time.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Several observations here --
> 
> 
> I thought Don's displeasure at the party was perfectly in character (as several have mentioned). And he acted like a dick (as usual) afterward; I was (pleasantly) *surprised Megan banged his socks off the next day.*
> ...


Minor nit, but the party was on Saturday night. They were clearly still mad at each other when they arrived for work on Monday morning, and the "banging of his socks off" didn't happen until Monday afternoon.

I was just surprised that Megan left the house a disaster for the entire weekend without straightening up at all. What did they do all day on Sunday?


TiVo'Brien said:


> Speaking of Jane, has the actress gained a lot of weight, or is that 'fat' makeup? Jane was much more attractive when she first arrived on the scene. Now she looks greatly overfed.


I didn't think she looked big at all. She's very skinny, and still looked like the tan trophy wife in this episode. Are you sure you're talking about Jane?


----------



## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> Seriously? Come on, other than her obvious talents, singing is not one of them.


She may not be an outstanding singer, but it wasn't bad. Combine that with the very sexy presentation and it worked.


----------



## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

photoshopgrl said:


> Seriously? Come on, other than her obvious talents, singing is not one of them.


Her rendition is currently #75 on the iTunes singles chart.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> ...the party was on Saturday night. They were clearly still mad at each other when they arrived for work on Monday morning, and the "banging of his socks off" didn't happen until Monday afternoon.....


I stand corrected on the day of the banging....


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

DougF said:


> She may not be an outstanding singer, but it wasn't bad. Combine that with the very sexy presentation and it worked.





cmontyburns said:


> Her rendition is currently #75 on the iTunes singles chart.


No accounting for taste I guess. 
I never said she was horrible but I can't imagine anyone buying the audio. Video, yeah I see why but just the audio would not impress. Just sayin.


----------



## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

So, I have to comment. The Zou Bisou Bisou song is a major hit, in the sense that it's very memorable, (and Cristina, just so you know - no I don't think it belongs on itunes at number 75? Really?) and will be one of the main take aways from this episode. In some ways, I think it's designed to demonstrate a lot of things. One is that Megan is a women who is much more a match for Don than we originally thought. The song demonstrates independance and her own thought process, and choices. It shows sexuality and shows her off to Don's co-workers in a way that at first many might question, but taking a longer view, shows she has her own views, ideas and assets. Assets that weren't immediately obvious when we were first introduced to her, but are more obvious now.

You would *never* imagine Betty doing anything like this, and despite Betty's beauty, the way Betty is played, she is disconnected to her sexuality in a way that clearly is not the case with Megan. (btw folks, I note that many have been spelling her name Meagan, which is how I spell my name, and I'm clearly flattered, but her name is really spelled Megan - a small point, but I just *had* to mention it)

And God Yes! I would love to own that dress! (Megan's I mean, from the Zou Bisou Bisou performance).

So, about the dresses. It's just really obvious that Peggy is always going to be dressed conservatively, blandly, blah. It's intentional, and designed to indicate that's how she feels about herself. Maybe a plot point might some time be that she starts to dress more provacatively.....that would be fun!


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> I stand corrected on the day of the banging....


That would be "hump day". 



mm2margaret said:


> You would *never* imagine Betty doing anything like this, and despite Betty's beauty, the way Betty is played, she is disconnected to her sexuality in a way that clearly is not the case with Megan.


But Betty was always surrounded by the kids. Megan has not yet associated sex with motherhood.



mm2margaret said:


> So, about the dresses. It's just really obvious that Peggy is always going to be dressed conservatively, blandly, blah. It's intentional, and designed to indicate that's how she feels about herself. Maybe a plot point might some time be that she starts to dress more provacatively.....that would be fun!


I thought in Season 1 or 2, that Joan helped Peggy start dressing better/sexier for the office. Her nature is more on the dowdy side and her dress reflects that. No?


----------



## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

I hadn't heard Zou Bisou Bisou for over 50 years. It came back to me instantly. She sang it nicely. No way to tell is she is a good singer based on that one song. Unless you are Simon Cowell.


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Mathew Wiener likes to cast REAL looking people not models. No implants.

Having a girl next door voice just made it all the more believable and sexy.


----------



## avery (May 29, 2006)

marksman said:


> Yeah i was mesmerized by their apartment. Was amazingly 60s.
> 
> One question I have is Pete and Trudy had this huge thing that looked sort of like a side-by-side oven in their kitchen but we could not figure out exactly what it was.


I assumed they were what double ovens looked like in the mid-sixties. My double ovens were vertically stacked. (early 70s) There was also another pair of matching wall mounted oven-ish units directly above the ovens. They resembled what built-in microwaves look like today. I figured they were the broilers. I've never seen this type of configuration before.


----------



## avery (May 29, 2006)

nyny523 said:


> I just re-watched the entire first 4 seasons over the past few weeks, so it is all pretty fresh in my mind.
> 
> That is why I recognized Peggy's dress. My first thought was - is she STILL wearing that same dress??? I know she doesn't have a lot of money, but seriously! And when she does get something new, it is usually terrible. I don't think she dresses like a girl anymore (as in Season 1 and even Season 2), but she always looks so dowdy. I was hoping that she would be somewhat influenced by Faye, who was a single career woman, but who dressed chic and professional.


While searching around for info on the music played when Sally awoke and walked down the hallway,[didn't find any*] I came across a video featuring the costume designer. She specifically mentioned how for the first episode of each season she has always put Peggy in something she wore in the previous one. Interesting and I guess that's realistic, since as you mentioned... Peggy doesn't have a lot of money.

Yes. Faye's wardrobe was gorgeous. She always looked perfect and of the times.

* It's very familiar to me yet I can't place it... driving me semi-crazy. Maybe someone here knows??


----------



## avery (May 29, 2006)

getreal said:


> I thought in Season 1 or 2, that Joan helped Peggy start dressing better/sexier for the office. Her nature is more on the dowdy side and her dress reflects that. No?


Well, even thought Peggy is one of my favorites, I'd have to say her clothes are conservative and somewhat boring. I think Bobbie Barrett had a greater impact on Peggy when she offered her unsolicited advice about style:"stop dressing like a _girl_" if she wanted to be taken seriously as a woman.


----------



## weaver (Feb 27, 2004)

avery said:


> While searching around for info on the music played when Sally awoke and walked down the hallway,[didn't find any*] I came across a video featuring the costume designer. She specifically mentioned how for the first episode of each season she has always put Peggy in something she wore in the previous one. Interesting and I guess that's realistic, since as you mentioned... Peggy doesn't have a lot of money.
> 
> Yes. Faye's wardrobe was gorgeous. She always looked perfect and of the times.
> 
> * It's very familiar to me yet I can't place it... driving me semi-crazy. Maybe someone here knows??


According to tunefind, it is Ebb Tide by Ken Griffin .


----------



## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> ......I didn't think she looked big at all. She's very skinny, and still looked like the tan trophy wife in this episode. Are you sure you're talking about Jane?


If you compare how she looked in her first season on the show, and how she looks now, there's quite a difference. If you have the DVD, watch "The New Girl" where she's introduced. Much slimmer, no near-double chin like now.

From one of her pre-chubby episodes (the Kentucky Derby episode):










ETA: Can't find a good one of her from this episode, but I just wonder if the show makes her up to be heavier to show how her wealth has changed her.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Here's a pic from the AMC blog of Jane from this ep, but it's not as close up as the older one:


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I think the shadow under her chin may make it seem that she's a little heavier, but I certainly don't see any reason to call her "greatly overfed."


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think the shadow under her chin may make it seem that she's a little heavier, but I certainly don't see any reason to call her "greatly overfed."


I tend to agree. Here's a recent shot of her from Showtime's _House of Lies_, and I see no evidence of a double chin. 










I also showed great restraint by not posting pics from her Maxim photo shoot, because they were unfortunately taken in 2010, which makes them not so relevant.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

It's entirely possible that Peyton List has gained a little weight since the first time the Jane character was introduced. That was in August 2008, so it's been nearly four years. But if she has gained weight, it's probably something in the neighborhood of 10-15 lbs., which her frame can certainly handle without her looking "greatly overfed."


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

All of the main women on this show look great to me(!?)


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Something else I was thinking about regarding the party.

This party was in SUCH stark contrast to the parties we have seen Betty throw. Those parties were subdued, uptight, and just not fun or festive. Betty herself was a big part of the reason - she could never just relax and enjoy herself. And Don dreaded all the parties, often finding ways to escape.

Then we have this party. It has music, and dancing, and people smoking pot. People are laughing and talking and having fun. Our hostess is entertaining her husband and the crowd in a very relaxed, intimate way. It freaked Don out, because it was so different from what he had become accustom. We keep seeing moments (like last season with Megan singing with the kids, or not freaking out when Bobby spills the milkshake, or comforting Sallywhen she doesn't want to go home with her mother) where Megan is the polar opposite of Betty. She is warm. Betty is cold. She is casual. Betty is formal. Etc, etc. 

I think Don is still getting used to the fact that he married a completely different woman than his first wife. And this is a man that is clearly not comfortable with change. I think a theme for the season will be to see if Don can evolve in a loving relationship?


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

weaver said:


> According to tunefind, it is Ebb Tide by Ken Griffin .


Of course... _Ebb Tide_!! [slapping my forehead]
*Thanks Weaver.* 
I remembered the music from the era but just as recollection would start surface, it would float back into my brain before I could grab it.


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

Regarding the party... for many, it was the home of their boss and it occurred to me afterward what thoughtless slobs their guests had been! [even though it did set things up for the make up (or _clean up_) sex.

I haven't seeen a mess like that since the aftermath of the Halloween party my son had his Senior year of high school.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

avery said:


> Regarding the party... for many, it was the home of their boss and it occurred to me afterward what thoughtless slobs their guests had been! [even though it did set things up for the make up (or _clean up_) sex.
> 
> I haven't seeen a mess like that since the aftermath of the Halloween party my son had his Senior year of high school.


But the mere fact that it was a messy party was such a contrast to what a party was like in Betty's house. A messy party is a fun party! Nothing is messy in Betty's world. She would have had a fit when that milkshake spilled. It just shows the difference between the world Don left and the one he is in now.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> Something else I was thinking about regarding the party.
> 
> This party was in SUCH stark contrast to the parties we have seen Betty throw. Those parties were subdued, uptight, and just not fun or festive. Betty herself was a big part of the reason - she could never just relax and enjoy herself. And Don dreaded all the parties, often finding ways to escape.
> 
> ...


I rewatched the S4 finale on Monday before watching this. There was a scene in a restaurant at breakfast. One of the kids knocked over a glass or something. Don started to freak out and Megan just took it in stride. I think Don realized right at that moment that Megan was the complete opposite of Betty, not just brunette instead of blonde. I think that was a pivotal moment.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

DougF said:


> I rewatched the S4 finale on Monday before watching this. There was a scene in a restaurant at breakfast. One of the kids knocked over a glass or something. Don started to freak out and Megan just took it in stride. I think Don realized right at that moment that Megan was the complete opposite of Betty, not just brunette instead of blonde. I think that was a pivotal moment.


When Bobby spilled the milkshake! That was a pivotal moment - I believe it led to the engagement.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> It was a new Bobby Draper - the old one is the kid Henry on Once Upon A Time.
> 
> The new Bobby looked SO familiar, though - gotta see if I can find out where I have seen him before...


now we finally know where MJ from Desperate Housewives went...


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

nyny523 said:


> But the mere fact that it was a messy party was such a contrast to what a party was like in Betty's house. A messy party is a fun party! Nothing is messy in Betty's world. She would have had a fit when that milkshake spilled. It just shows the difference between the world Don left and the one he is in now.


I think I tried to mention a similar point earlier. Somehow Don's married a very different woman this time. She's warm, fun, light years more sensual, loving. You're right about the contrasts in the party she held and the party that Betty would hold.

Let's see if Don can avoid screwing this up.....bets on if he can, or can't?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

nyny523 said:


> Something else I was thinking about regarding the party.
> 
> This party was in SUCH stark contrast to the parties we have seen Betty throw. Those parties were subdued, uptight, and just not fun or festive. Betty herself was a big part of the reason - she could never just relax and enjoy herself. And Don dreaded all the parties, often finding ways to escape.
> 
> ...





DougF said:


> I rewatched the S4 finale on Monday before watching this. There was a scene in a restaurant at breakfast. One of the kids knocked over a glass or something. Don started to freak out and Megan just took it in stride. I think Don realized right at that moment that Megan was the complete opposite of Betty, not just brunette instead of blonde. I think that was a pivotal moment.


I totally agree with this.

However, Betty was a wife in one decade and Megan is in another. Different lifestyles for both women led to different types of thought process and what is 'correct' or, I don't know, allowed. I am betting Betty or Roger's first wife or Don's old friends would be sniffing and raising their noses at the craziness of the party.

I love what Megan has brought to Don and hope that he can keep up with it.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Happy Don would be boring. He will cheat on Megan and then things will get interesting.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

nyny523 said:


> That dress was at least a year old...she wore it last season. A lot of her clothing is worn frequently and long past it's expiration. I do believe it is done purposely. But it is still drab and boring!


Clothes expire?


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

d-dub said:


> Clothes expire?


Fashion expires.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

d-dub said:


> Clothes expire?





nyny523 said:


> Fashion expires.


:up:
Silly boys.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

d-dub said:


> Clothes expire?


 News to me, too, David....


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

d-dub said:


> Clothes expire?





nyny523 said:


> Fashion expires.





Bierboy said:


> News to me, too, David....


How is this news to you?

Do you still wear the same type clothes you did in the 80's? Think Miami Vice... Have you changed from pleated trousers with cuffs to a flat front trouser without?

Hen lines for women change. All. The. Time. Sixties was micro minis and then skirts got longer and longer. Now they're shorter again. Shoulder pads were once very popular... lots of women looked like linebackers walking through the office.

Fashion changes and while last seasons clothes will still appear in most settings and are still fine to wear, it makes the wearer appear dated if they wear them five or ten years later.

Peggy wears clothing that are very "yesterday." They are very dowdy and are what women joining the workforce several years before her were wearing to look "professional" and muted (not colorful or womanly). Especially when you compare them to Megan who is very fashion forward in all her wardrobe choices with bright colors and clothes that compliment her.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

MNoelH said:


> How is this news to you?
> 
> Do you still wear the same type clothes you did in the 80's?.


Yes. (In a few cases, the exact same clothes)


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

kaszeta said:


> Yes. (In a few cases, the exact same clothes)


/high-five


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

d-dub said:


> /high-five


Hopeless....both of you.....are beyond hope....


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

d-dub said:


> /high-five


I think tomorrow I will wear one of my 80s vintage shirts.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

kaszeta said:


> I think tomorrow I will wear one of my 80s vintage shirts.


Go with the paisley.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I have hung out with both Kaszeta and d-dub in person.

When it comes to fashion, they are both pretty hopeless...

But I still love you guys!!!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

d-dub said:


> /high-five


Gimme sum skin, too....

...while I search for my tie-dye shirt....


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

nyny523 said:


> I have hung out with both Kaszeta and d-dub in person.
> 
> When it comes to fashion, they are both pretty hopeless...


Hey, jeans and t-shirts... it's a classic look.


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## d-dub (Mar 8, 2005)

kaszeta said:


> Hey, jeans and t-shirts... it's a classic look.


/down-low


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

d-dub said:


> /down-low


Too slow.

My shirt today is from 1987.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

d-dub said:


> /down-low


No can do. Us old-timers have a problem bending over....sorry.


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

nyny523 said:


> I have hung out with both Kaszeta and d-dub in person.
> 
> When it comes to fashion, they are both pretty hopeless...
> 
> But I still love you guys!!!


Yea, I get it. They're just.....guys....


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I've just caught up on all four seasons on Netflix and purchased season 5 to date on iTunes. I refrained greatly from bumping any season 1-4 threads, but as these are less than two months old, I'm not holding back!

I can't believe no one mentioned my favorite scene - Pete tripping walking into his office and then bashing his nose into the pillar.  :up: I cracked up when he did that. I love Pete despite that he is a despicable person at times, though since Trudy got pregnant they really haven't spent much time on his personal life. I enjoy his professional stories quite a lot and loved his prank on Roger.


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