# Letters to and from TiVo Executive Management Team



## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Hi there.

Now that I have my S3 and it is working great I am a little hesitant to bring up the bad memories of the VIP shipping fiasco, but I have had some email correspondence with the Tivo Executive Management Team that I thought you might be interested in and I want to see if any of you have had any similar sort of correspondence with TiVo.

Here is the email I sent to every member of the TiVo Executive Management Team on September 20, 2006 entitled "What Are You Planning To Do For The Tuesday VIPs?":

Hello.

Please forgive my mass emailing to everyone on the TiVo Executive Management list, but I'm not sure to whom my question best applies to.

As you are all well aware TiVo really screwed up the VIP release of the Series 3. I am one of those VIPs that ordered on Tuesday, September 12th and I have still not received my Series 3. It does appear it will be delivered today. If you have not read the posts regarding the Series 3 release problems here is the link on the TiVo Community message board: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51

My situation is typical of most of the posts. I ordered on Tuesday the 12th with overnight shipping and got an order confirmation email. On the 14th I received an email saying that the shipping was delayed. On the 17th my credit card was charged $46.99. On the 18th I received another confirmation email that had a changed order date. On the 19th I received a shipping confirmation email.

Throughout this past week I have called TiVo's support and ordering telephone numbers. The agents answering the phones either had no information or they gave out incorrect information. An employee who goes by the name of TiVoPony on the message boards has also been giving out incorrect information. In one of his posts he said that all orders were shipped on the 15th or 16th. That was not true. In one of his posts he said that shipping charges would be waived. So far the only charge on my credit card appears to be for the shipping, so that was not true. In another post he said that only 200 orders on Tuesday were screwed up. This appears to not be true based on the postings on the message board. In one of the latest posts he said that someone from TiVo would be calling each of the "Lucky 200" to apologize for the situation. I have so far not received any phone call from TiVo.

I do not mind the delay, even though I had to reschedule a cable install appointment, but what I do mind is the lack of action from the TiVo company to try to fix the situation for its VIPs. The only thing that TiVo has said that they would do would be to not charge for the shipping, but that is the only charge that TiVo has placed on my credit card to date, and that is not acceptable.

TiVo must do something for these "Lucky 200" customers whose orders were so screwed up and free shipping is not enough. For example, if you went to a restaurant and the waiter screwed up your order you would receive a discount on the bill plus free drinks or dessert. What is TiVo planning to do?

Here is a summary of the options that the "Lucky 200" VIPs have come up with on their own that would reduce the ill will currently being felt towards TiVo over this situation:

Minimum:	Reduce the Lifetime Transfer charge to $99.
Better: Allow the Lifetime Transfer at no charge.
Preferred:	Charge $199 for Lifetime Service on Series 3 without transferring service from another box.
Best: Allow Lifetime Service on Series 3 at no charge without transferring service from another box.

The TiVo Executive Management Team needs to come up with a response very quickly. You have a wonderful product and a strong following of fans. This poor treatment of TiVo's most vocal supporters must be addressed.

I look forward to hearing from you either privately or publicly regarding this situation.

Sincerely,

Derek Bartholomaus
Los Angeles, California​
On September 25, 2006 I received the following email from TiVo CEO Tom Rogers entitled "TiVo HD Unit":

Dear Derek,

I appreciate you contacting me directly on the unfortunate issues related to the delivery of your TiVo HD product. I wanted to sincerely apologize for the immense frustration that you have experienced.

Since I became CEO of TiVo about one year ago, we have tried to move the company forward in many areas, and in many areas we have succeeded. Unfortunately, we had a major mishap in this area which took us some time to both identify and correct. I will only be satisfied when we can say with complete confidence that these kinds of issues will not occur.

You have my sincere apologies for the frustration that you have experienced. We truly appreciate your feedback and are disappointed that systems issues caused us not to deliver on the easy experience that our customers expect and deserve. These issues not only caused us to slip on our shipping schedule, but also had the unintended effect of preventing our customer service agents from having the visibility they normally do in tracking orders. We have since identified and fixed the root cause of these issues and are almost fully back on track with deliveries. We will be crediting you for any expedited shipping charges. We value your business; I hope you will continue to directly provide me any feedback you have on any issues. Again, I appreciate your writing to me and your patience, and hope you will soon be enjoying the best TiVo HD experience possible.

Please accept the TiVo messenger bag we are sending you as a small token of our appreciation for your loyalty to TiVo, and that you recognize we will do better in the future.

Best,

Tom​
This morning I received the TiVo Messenger Bag, and it is a pretty nice bag, but I work in the entertainment industry and already have about a dozen of these types of bags as presents from studios and facilities. Personally, I don't think a bag makes up for the problems experienced, but at least they did something.

If you are one of the "Lucky 200" and you contacted TiVo regarding the problems what sort of response did you get? Also, what sort of response did you want to get?


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Got the same email you got, plus the messenger bag this morning, and also a personal reply from the CEO (when I replied to the above email).

I truly think the CEO does care about TiVo and is probably embarassed by the shipping mishap.


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2003)

Wahhhhhhh


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Dude. You so rolled Pony under the bus. That just ain't right, man.


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## Necro (Sep 26, 2006)

I ordered my S3 on Friday and it just came in today. That's 3 days.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

TiVotion said:


> Dude. You so rolled Pony under the bus. That just ain't right, man.


How did I roll him under a bus? I merely relayed what information was being provided. I respect Pony, but he was providing inaccurate information the same way that the CSRs were providing inaccurate information. The only difference is that Pony's inaccurate information was in writing.


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

Gotta love people who insist on getting something for nothing.

Why a shipping mishap should justfy a discount on lifetime service is beyond me. Refunding the shipping charge seems fair enough.

Enjoy the bag whiner.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

sonicboom said:


> Gotta love people who insist on getting something for nothing.
> 
> Why a shipping mishap should justfy a discount on lifetime service is beyond me. Refunding the shipping charge seems fair enough.
> 
> Enjoy the bag whiner.


I don't want to go through the whole thing again. There are plenty of threads here that detail all of the problems.

The delay in shipping is not the only thing that went wrong and why the VIPs ended out spending more for the equipment than others. The fact that people were able to receive the same equipment and service for an average of $100 less than the VIPs is the reason for requesting a discount. If you are unfamiliar with what happened please read some of the many threads regarding the problems with the VIP program.

And it is not "whining" to ask that those people who followed the rules of the VIP program be treated equally to those people who did not follow the rules of the VIP program.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

sonicboom said:


> Enjoy the bag whiner.


LOL, I'm sorry for doing so...but I laughed out loud for some reason at that. No offense OP.

Seriously, I don't know Pony but I believe that he genuinely tries to help (along with Jerry, Shanan, et. al). I also do not personally believe that TiVo employees are mandated to post here. They do it as a courtesy to their customers and the loyal fans who reside 'round these parts.

I could be wrong, but I'd bet that the information that Pony provided is only as accurate as the information he was given along the chain. Pony's not distribution and fulfillment; he's marketing. Short of distribution and fulfillment employees using the TiVo Community Forums, he was likely posting the best info he was given. Why would he fabricate some outlandish explanation? He probably just related what he believed to be the facts at the time.

Again, I could be wrong. I'm giving TiVo the benefit of the doubt. But at the same time, keep in mind that TiVo employees don't even have to be here. When's the last time you purchased a major consumer product and been able to have a dialog AT ALL with that product's key personnel?


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

TiVotion said:


> I could be wrong, but I'd bet that the information that Pony provided is only as accurate as the information he was given along the chain. Pony's not distribution and fulfillment; he's marketing. Short of distribution and fulfillment employees using the TiVo Community Forums, he was likely posting the best info he was given. Why would he fabricate some outlandish explanation? He probably just related what he believed to be the facts at the time.


I agree. That's why I said that Pony AND the CSRs were giving out inaccurate information. Pony's apology for his inaccurate postings was posted after my original email to TiVo Management, btw.

The biggest problem that TiVo has is providing accurate information regarding fixes to problems with their service or product. Don't even get me started on how many times TiVo has said that TiVo-To-Go would be coming to the Mac.


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## sonicboom (Sep 2, 2006)

derekcbart said:


> I don't want to go through the whole thing again. There are plenty of threads here that detail all of the problems.
> 
> The delay in shipping is not the only thing that went wrong and why the VIPs ended out spending more for the equipment than others. The fact that people were able to receive the same equipment and service for an average of $100 less than the VIPs is the reason for requesting a discount. If you are unfamiliar with what happened please read some of the many threads regarding the problems with the VIP program.
> 
> And it is not "whining" to ask that those people who followed the rules of the VIP program be treated equally to those people who did not follow the rules of the VIP program.


$100 less? I don't know how you figured that one out. Some of those who bought online from CC got 10% off (that's $80). Those who bought retail got nothing off. All of the above had to pay shipping and tax. Some even shelled-out more for an extended warranty.

People who bought retail and took advantage of the VIP offer followed the rules. You must remember that Tivo changed the rules to allow for this. So they received some compensation for the mishap.

Those who stuck with the tivo order got their shipping refunded. So they too received compensation.

Those who whine get a bag.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

TiVo messenger bag??? He should have given you "Minimum: Reduce the Lifetime Transfer charge to $99."


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> TiVo messenger bag??? He should have given you "Minimum: Reduce the Lifetime Transfer charge to $99."


I wish the TiVo Executive team would break into your house and remove all your TiVo's.....you're not worthy! 

Oh and I hope the CEO upper decks your toilet while he is there.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

BlackBetty said:


> I wish the TiVo Executive team would break into your house and remove all your TiVo's.....you're not worthy!
> 
> Oh and I hope the CEO upper decks your toilet while he is there.


Well, so much for a civilised discussion of what communication the "Lucky 200" have received from TiVo.


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## wouldworker (Sep 7, 2004)

derekcbart said:


> Here is a summary of the options that the "Lucky 200" VIPs have come up with on their own that would reduce the ill will currently being felt towards TiVo over this situation:
> 
> Minimum:	Reduce the Lifetime Transfer charge to $99.
> Better: Allow the Lifetime Transfer at no charge.
> ...


Superior: Pay my cable bill for a year and send over a girl with a flat head so I can rest my beer on top of her head while she provides me with oral favors.

If you're going to ask for ridiculous things go all the way.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

sonicboom said:


> Gotta love people who insist on getting something for nothing.
> 
> Why a shipping mishap should justfy a discount on lifetime service is beyond me. Refunding the shipping charge seems fair enough.
> 
> Enjoy the bag whiner.


:up:


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Oral favors? She'll call up and order my pizzas for me? Cool.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

derekcbart said:


> The delay in shipping is not the only thing that went wrong and why the VIPs ended out spending more for the equipment than others. The fact that people were able to receive the same equipment and service for an average of $100 less than the VIPs is the reason for requesting a discount.


I look at that as part of the early adopter fee. Had you waited you would have saved. That's how it works. Just another spin on it.


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## joegarrett (Mar 17, 2004)

They don't call it "Bleeding Edge" for nothing!


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

derekcbart said:


> This morning I received the TiVo Messenger Bag, and it is a pretty nice bag, but I work in the entertainment industry and already have about a dozen of these types of bags as presents from studios and facilities. Personally, I don't think a bag makes up for the problems experienced, but at least they did something.


Yes, exactly. Sending us a form letter is bad enough, but giving us some of the swag they give people at trade shows as if it were some great thing is just insulting. Do they not realize that many of us know perfectly well that such bags are just throwaway marketing gimmicks?

I responded to the form letter as well. I was polite, but I was not at all forgiving.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Hey, where's my Tivo messenger bag?


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

wouldworker said:


> Superior: Pay my cable bill for a year and send over a girl with a flat head so I can rest my beer on top of her head while she provides me with oral favors.
> 
> If you're going to ask for ridiculous things go all the way.


My uncle did something like this for us during the superbowl a couple of years ago. No oral favors but she provided a show and served us dinner  .


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## suss (Sep 26, 2006)

So I had all the same shipping problems, even had to delay the comcast install that was set for tuesday if the timing was right. I bet if you look at stats for service call cancelations that week there would be a spike on tuesday. But I am wondering if anyone else got this humorous line from a phone rep. I was talking with a tech support guy who claimed that the "whole system just crashed, and they are saying it could take 30 days before its back up." 30 days? No other rep after talking to him (and there were several) had any clue what he was talking about. The guy sounded like he was about to pop. I just thanked him and moved on to the next attempt at getting some information from someone.


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## DocSavag (Feb 18, 2006)

suss said:


> So I had all the same shipping problems, even had to delay the comcast install that was set for tuesday if the timing was right. I bet if you look at stats for service call cancelations that week there would be a spike on tuesday. But I am wondering if anyone else got this humorous line from a phone rep. I was talking with a tech support guy who claimed that the "whole system just crashed, and they are saying it could take 30 days before its back up." 30 days? No other rep after talking to him (and there were several) had any clue what he was talking about. The guy sounded like he was about to pop. I just thanked him and moved on to the next attempt at getting some information from someone.


Our favorite line from that day was the rep giving us our anticpated shipping date. When my wife pointed out that the date he just gave her was 3 days in the past there was dead silence for about 20 seconds or so...


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

Juest got an e-mail from TiVo myself:



> We want to sincerely apologize for the immense frustration that you might have experienced recently during your ordering process through the TiVo Store.
> 
> You have our sincere apologies for any frustration we may have caused. We are extremely disappointed that systems issues caused us not to deliver on the
> easy experience that our customers expect and deserve. These issues not only caused us to slip on our shipping schedule, but also had the unintended effect
> ...


...and I didn't even send TiVo an nastygram. But I was one of the "lucky 200". I wonder if all the members of the 200 club will get this e-mail too?


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## Motaki (Mar 28, 2004)

Yup. Got the same note. If I don't get my messenger bag soon, I'm gonna be pissed!


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## Leo_N (Nov 13, 2003)

Franco said:


> Juest got an e-mail from TiVo myself:
> 
> ...and I didn't even send TiVo an nastygram. But I was one of the "lucky 200". I wonder if all the members of the 200 club will get this e-mail too?


Just got my email also. Lucky 200 here also.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I'm a "lucky 200" member and just got the email as well. Now I feel guilty for getting an RMA.


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## ahaley42 (Sep 12, 2006)

I cancelled my order before it got to that point. Guess I won't be getting my bag. Due to horrible customer service and support on this POS brick I'll probably be returning it anyway. Perhaps I could borrow someone's bag to carry it back to Fry's. If I wasn't so damned addicted I would cut off my 3 series 2s as well.   :down:


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## ThePlungerMan (Sep 13, 2006)

derekcbart said:


> This morning I received the TiVo Messenger Bag, and it is a pretty nice bag, but I work in the entertainment industry and already have about a dozen of these types of bags as presents from studios and facilities. Personally, I don't think a bag makes up for the problems experienced, but at least they did something.


What do you want, a fricking Cadillac?

Thats what a supplier of mine said to me after i whinned for winning crappie top flight balls for closet to the hole at his Country Club tourney he invited me to play in and paid for. This, a long time ago. I am now mature and would do no such thing.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

derekcbart said:


> This morning I received the TiVo Messenger Bag, and it is a pretty nice bag, but I work in the entertainment industry and already have about a dozen of these types of bags as presents from studios and facilities. Personally, I don't think a bag makes up for the problems experienced, but at least they did something.


That's so strange. You only got a bag? I too sent them a polite but very firm email as well stating my frustration with the shipping delays. As I am one of the "Lucky 200" you mentioned, low and behold this morning TiVo apologized and sent over a free 2006 Mustang with a scantily clad Jessica Simpson riding shotgun. The big red bow on top also had note under the windshield wiper which showed a picture of the little TiVo guy winking and saying "Take 'em for a ride." Before I grabbed the keys to the car, I called TiVo customer support and had to wait 15 minutes, yes, FIFTEEN MINUTES before I could get someone to understand that I work in the auto industry and domestic cars don't really do it for me. I again was polite but very firm when I said I'm more into brunettes anyway, and the Mustang was silver and not red. I mean, c'mon TiVo, you should know better. Scumbags.


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

I posted this in the other thread:


> I have the e-mail, but no bag yet.
> 
> What can I say. I was one of the 200. I complained, I *****ed, I moaned, I apologized, I took some stuff I said back, and I left some complaints still on the table. A lot was said, a lot was done, and we're at the end.
> 
> ...


To hit on a couple of different comments in this thread:

1) I still feel burned by the changing of the VIP rules such that I could have purchased retail and used coupons. But, in fairness, its much closer to $80 then it is $100. That said, TiVo has addressed just about everything else I complained about. It is my hope that, in the future, they either won't change the rules once the game has started or they simply will always allow purchases from retail.

2) Its clear that the messenger bag isn't a top dollar item, but that's not the point. Its the effort behind it and the fact that they actually paid attention and did _something_. Many other companies might not have done anything at all - TiVo clearly listened to our complaints and responded. I'm all for calling out wrongs when they are made, but at the same time you have to admit when someone does something right - even if its not exactly what you might have wanted.

The VIP issue will probably linger in its current state of answer forever. But TiVo did address the rest of the issues I was concerned about, fixed all wrongs on my credit card/accounts, and did a little extra in a few ways (free shipping, messenger bag). Ultimately, I can't be raving mad at a company who is clearly doing their best to listen to their customers and respond to them. That's too rare in today's society to just throw away and dismiss.

There are still some "issues", but on the whole they've addressed my concerns and done right by me.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

inaka said:


> That's so strange. You only got a bag? I too sent them a polite but very firm email as well stating my frustration with the shipping delays. As I am one of the "Lucky 200" you mentioned, low and behold this morning TiVo apologized and sent over a free 2006 Mustang with a scantily clad Jessica Simpson riding shotgun. The big red bow on top also had note under the windshield wiper which showed a picture of the little TiVo guy winking and saying "Take 'em for a ride." Before I grabbed the keys to the car, I called TiVo customer support and had to wait 15 minutes, yes, FIFTEEN MINUTES before I could get someone to understand that I work in the auto industry and domestic cars don't really do it for me. I again was polite but very firm when I said I'm more into brunettes anyway, and the Mustang was silver and not red. I mean, c'mon TiVo, you should know better. Scumbags.


 :up: :up: :up:

Post of the year, sir (or ma'am)!!!

I wonder what all of you whiners would do when something actually bad happens to you???


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

You forgot to mention that TiVo claims many emails ended up in Spam folders, yet not a single Forum poster admits finding one there.


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## jhonaker (Jan 3, 2004)

I think we should really just treat this as a lesson learned. If you were happy with your experience ordering your TiVo directly from TiVo, then by all means do it again next time.

If you were less than thrilled, then the next time you buy a TiVo, save yourself the hassle and save TiVo from the embarassment of excessive orders, and go with Circuit City or Best Buy.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

TiVotion said:


> LOL, I'm sorry for doing so...but I laughed out loud for some reason at that. No offense OP.
> 
> Seriously, I don't know Pony but I believe that he genuinely tries to help (along with Jerry, Shanan, et. al). I also do not personally believe that TiVo employees are mandated to post here. They do it as a courtesy to their customers and the loyal fans who reside 'round these parts.
> 
> ...


When was the last time you sent an e-mail to the company CEO and got an answer? :up: :up: :up:

Gotta give em props for that.


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## joegarrett (Mar 17, 2004)

generalpatton71 said:


> My uncle did something like this for us during the superbowl a couple of years ago. No oral favors but she provided a show and served us dinner  .


So...........Is your Uncle a he or a she??


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## redtape (Oct 14, 2003)

As I posted in the other thread (forgetting to mentio I ordered through tivo.com/vip on wed the 13th):
No e-mail, no phone call, no refund for 2 day shipping. Oh well, in spite of all indicators, (including the 2nd "conformation" e-mail) I am apparently not considered one of the "200", so I just wasted about $30 on shipping that took 8 days from the order for 2nd day shipping...


So feel lucky if you got your shipping refunded, and luckier if you got any acknowlegement (including the bag).
I was polite every time I called. I did not try to escalate to management. I accepted that they were doing the best that they could. So I guess that this is proof that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease ..."


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

inaka said:


> TiVo apologized and sent over a free 2006 Mustang with a scantily clad Jessica Simpson riding shotgun. ... I said I'm more into brunettes anyway, and the Mustang was silver and not red. I mean, c'mon TiVo, you should know better. Scumbags.


I agree... TiVo should've double-checked our accounts; my wishlist is for Jessica ALBA, not Jessica SIMPSON. I mean... c'mon...


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Mmm. Just in case TiVo needs any ideas for my Christmas gift: Jessica Alba. Eva Longoria. Gwen Stefani. Rachael Ray.


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## cotton168 (Aug 8, 2006)

You guys are seriously funny!  inaka, that was hilarious! How about instead of the car and girls, I just want a big fat wad of cash!! LOL


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## wbswbs (Sep 26, 2006)

How spoiled and self-involved are we that we must pen full page letters and ask for free stuff simply because delivery was delayed a few days? Tivo produced a kick-ass box in the S3 (even with some missing features and acknowleding that they took forever to do it...) and we ought to just be thankful that they did it. Even more important, we ought to be thankful that they didn't screw with the interface we have all come to know and love in an effort to "improve" things further.

Suck it up and move on.


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## DocSavag (Feb 18, 2006)

wbswbs said:


> How spoiled and self-involved are we that we must pen full page letters and ask for free stuff simply because delivery was delayed a few days? Tivo produced a kick-ass box in the S3 (even with some missing features and acknowleding that they took forever to do it...) and we ought to just be thankful that they did it. Even more important, we ought to be thankful that they didn't screw with the interface we have all come to know and love in an effort to "improve" things further.
> 
> Suck it up and move on.


Frankly all I'm generally interested in when a company screws up with shipping is not paying for the shipping. Getting a coupon, a small gift or some other token of their appreciation of my patience and understanding is a bonus. I certainly don't see why a company who has simply had a small issue with shipping a new product should have to shell out huge amounts of cash to appease their customers who had only a few days of waiting as an inconvienence.


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## johnd7 (Feb 23, 2002)

Shipping problems, rebate issues, poor communication, bad code, slow tivos, bad remotes, inaccurate information, bad customer service...when will we all quit being surprised? This has been the history of Tivo for a long time and despite what the "CEO" says in his form letter I would guess the issues will continue. They don't really care because they know we are loyal customers and that they have a product nobody else does.


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## wbswbs (Sep 26, 2006)

DocSavag said:


> Frankly all I'm generally interested in when a company screws up with shipping is not paying for the shipping. Getting a coupon, a small gift or some other token of their appreciation of my patience and understanding is a bonus. I certainly don't see why a company who has simply had a small issue with shipping a new product should have to shell out huge amounts of cash to appease their customers who had only a few days of waiting as an inconvienence.


We're definitely all emotionally invested in this products, so it is understandable to be upset when we don't get what we want (I was frustrated when I didn't receive a tracking number when I was supposed to). Fair enough. Also, paying for overnight shipping and not getting things when they're supposed to arrive also ought to trigger a refund of the shipping charges, no doubt about. However, our correspondent was asking for hundreds of dollars worth of benefits!

I thought the letter from Tivo and the gesture of the bag was more than enough, more than most companies would do anyway.


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## jgubman (Mar 7, 2002)

So, who's called up to get a tracking number for the messenger bag?


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## RoanokeHokie (Nov 16, 2000)

wbswbs said:


> I thought the letter from Tivo and the gesture of the bag was more than enough, more than most companies would do anyway.


If TiVo throws in a TiVo guy sticker with that messenger bag, then I'll say I'm happy with their gesture. Until then, I'm just okay with it; TiVo boxes should come withTiVo guy stickers, just like Apple products include Apple logo stickers! ;-)


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## mintakaX (Jan 4, 2005)

wbswbs said:


> How spoiled and self-involved are we that we must pen full page letters and ask for free stuff simply because delivery was delayed a few days? Tivo produced a kick-ass box in the S3 (even with some missing features and acknowleding that they took forever to do it...) and we ought to just be thankful that they did it. Even more important, we ought to be thankful that they didn't screw with the interface we have all come to know and love in an effort to "improve" things further.
> 
> Suck it up and move on.


How spoiled and self-involved are we that we must publicly judge and ridicule the opinions of others just because they dont agree with our own ?


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

wbswbs said:


> How spoiled and self-involved are we that we must pen full page letters and ask for free stuff simply because delivery was delayed a few days? Tivo produced a kick-ass box in the S3 (even with some missing features and acknowleding that they took forever to do it...) and we ought to just be thankful that they did it. Even more important, we ought to be thankful that they didn't screw with the interface we have all come to know and love in an effort to "improve" things further.
> 
> Suck it up and move on.


You sound just like a paid shill.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Aiken said:


> You sound just like a paid shill.


That's why (s)he said it so much better than I did 

I don't think that calling a bunch of crybabies "a bunch of crybabies" makes one a paid shill...

Like I said, if these are the lengths people go to when they have to wait a few extra days for their new toy (even my 3 year old can handle that!), I don't want to see them when something actually bad happens.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

GoHokies! said:


> That's why (s)he said it so much better than I did
> 
> I don't think that calling a bunch of crybabies "a bunch of crybabies" makes one a paid shill...
> 
> Like I said, if these are the lengths people go to when they have to wait a few extra days for their new toy (even my 3 year old can handle that!), I don't want to see them when something actually bad happens.


:up:


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> Like I said, if these are the lengths people go to when they have to wait a few extra days for their new toy (even my 3 year old can handle that!), I don't want to see them when something actually bad happens.


Look, we live in an era where getting something two days sooner costs you $40 more. Why doesn't getting something two days late measure up similarly?


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

Aiken said:


> Look, we live in an era where getting something two days sooner costs you $40 more. Why doesn't getting something two days late measure up similarly?


It measures up but a lot of people here seem to forget Tivo is refunding the shipping. (Mine hit my card yesterday.)

Doesn't that count for anything?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Aiken said:


> Look, we live in an era where getting something two days sooner costs you $40 more. Why doesn't getting something two days late measure up similarly?


It's a very good point. If you buy something and the contract states you'll get it by a certain date you kinda expect to see it then. It's completely reasonable to complain if one side didn't hold thier end of the bargain.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Gregor said:


> Doesn't that count for anything?


 :up:

Apparently not to some.


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## redtape (Oct 14, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> :up:
> 
> Apparently not to some.


It will count for me if they actually credit me, but as of now, I have only the charge, not the credit, and nothing to indicate that I will ever receive one.


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## DocSavag (Feb 18, 2006)

RoanokeHokie said:


> If TiVo throws in a TiVo guy sticker with that messenger bag, then I'll say I'm happy with their gesture. Until then, I'm just okay with it; TiVo boxes should come withTiVo guy stickers, just like Apple products include Apple logo stickers! ;-)


Yea my wife was a bit annoyed that we didn't get another sticker too!


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

redtape said:


> It will count for me if they actually credit me, but as of now, I have only the charge, not the credit, and nothing to indicate that I will ever receive one.


Call them. TivoPony said all shipping charges would be refunded.

Edit: Actually, was it all shipping charges or just "expedited shipping charges"? Not sure myself. Have to find Pony's post...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4398822#post4398822


TiVoPony said:


> ps - Shipping charges. Don't fret if you were charged, but were told it would be refunded. It'll be taken care of, and I'll share more details about when you can expect the refund to appear as soon as I have the information.
> 
> Pony


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4388763#post4388763


> Those 200 orders are being shipped now, and each of those customers will be receiving a phone call from our support staff explaining the status of your order. We apologize for the delay, and as before, all shipping charges on these orders are being refunded.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

generalpatton71 said:


> wouldworker said:
> 
> 
> > Superior: Pay my cable bill for a year and send over a girl with a flat head so I can rest my beer on top of her head while she provides me with oral favors.
> ...


That post is disturbing in so many ways...


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## potters2643 (Feb 17, 2006)

I don't often post, but I think some of the people who have dubbed themselves the "lucky 200" are just trying to make a big enough deal out of the shipping to get an edge on whining about lifetime. I wonder how many of them were actualy happy there was a problem so they could use it against TiVo to try and get free lifetime/cheaper xfer, etc...


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

RoanokeHokie said:


> If TiVo throws in a TiVo guy sticker with that messenger bag, then I'll say I'm happy with their gesture. Until then, I'm just okay with it; TiVo boxes should come withTiVo guy stickers, just like Apple products include Apple logo stickers! ;-)


I was actually surprised that the Series 3 didn't come with the TivoGuy window cling like the single tuner Series 2's did.


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## edbern (Sep 13, 2006)

redtape said:


> As I posted in the other thread (forgetting to mentio I ordered through tivo.com/vip on wed the 13th):
> No e-mail, no phone call, no refund for 2 day shipping. Oh well, in spite of all indicators, (including the 2nd "conformation" e-mail) I am apparently not considered one of the "200", so I just wasted about $30 on shipping that took 8 days from the order for 2nd day shipping...
> 
> So feel lucky if you got your shipping refunded, and luckier if you got any acknowlegement (including the bag).
> I was polite every time I called. I did not try to escalate to management. I accepted that they were doing the best that they could. So I guess that this is proof that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease ..."


Never complained, got my shipping refunded, and just got an email telling me a bag is on the way. Seems like they are automatically taking care of people.

More props. I run a growing company that has expanded very quickly -- even the best funded, best intentions can go awry under unexpected volume.


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

wbswbs said:


> How spoiled and self-involved are we that we must pen full page letters and ask for free stuff simply because delivery was delayed a few days? Tivo produced a kick-ass box in the S3 (even with some missing features and acknowleding that they took forever to do it...) and we ought to just be thankful that they did it. Even more important, we ought to be thankful that they didn't screw with the interface we have all come to know and love in an effort to "improve" things further.
> 
> Suck it up and move on.


This was not the end of the world.Lets move on  :up:


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## wbswbs (Sep 26, 2006)

mintakaX said:


> How spoiled and self-involved are we that we must publicly judge and ridicule the opinions of others just because they dont agree with our own ?


Are you serious? Perhaps you're missing the point here. The whole point of this guy posting the letter was for the community to give its thoughts and opinions on the letter's content and the response from Tivo. I did so, and now I'm held up as being a jerk for doing so?? Nice.

Also, I don't work for TIVO or any company in the industry. Expressing an opinion that is not AGAINST TIVO doesn't make you a shill FOR Tivo.

Nice ad homenim attack...definitely go for the person rather than the content...


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## redtape (Oct 14, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> Call them. TivoPony said all shipping charges would be refunded.
> 
> Edit: Actually, was it all shipping charges or just "expedited shipping charges"? Not sure myself. Have to find Pony's post...
> 
> ...


As I said, I never got the phone call mentioned in the second link, so, somehow I must not have counted in those they considered delayed. Also, I was never personally told that my shipping would be refunded, so I'm not sure TiVoPony's promise means anything in my case. Ehh. life goes on. I'll just be happy they finally got my series 3 to me.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

wbswbs said:


> Are you serious? Perhaps you're missing the point here. The whole point of this guy posting the letter was for the community to give its thoughts and opinions on the letter's content and the response from Tivo. I did so, and now I'm held up as being a jerk for doing so?? Nice.
> 
> Also, I don't work for TIVO or any company in the industry. Expressing an opinion that is not AGAINST TIVO doesn't make you a shill FOR Tivo.
> 
> Nice ad homenim attack...definitely go for the person rather than the content...


Actually, the point of this thread was to ask the other "Lucky 200" what their communication with TiVo Management has been. Here is the last line of the original posting:


derekcbart said:


> If you are one of the "Lucky 200" and you contacted TiVo regarding the problems what sort of response did you get? Also, what sort of response did you want to get?


You, and others like you who posted similar remarks, are obviously not one of the "Lucky 200" and missed the point of this thread and just felt like posting remarks calling the people who were mistreated by TiVo "whiners".

I'm very happy with TiVo and I am loving the Series 3. I have had no major problems with it. Also when I posted my list of suggestions for the management team to take I never expected them to do anything more than to allow a discount on the lifetime transfer, but when you are involved in negotiations you always ask for more than what you expect to receive and then meet in the middle. Do I feel that a messenger bag makes up for all of the communication problems? (Not the shipping delays - this is a big point that people keep missing. I don't mind a shipping delay due to the high volume of orders. What I did mind was the repeated assertions that the box had actually shipped or was going to ship by a certain date and was never told what was going on with my order since people who had ordered after me using ground shipping received their box before me when I had requested next day shipping.) Not really, but as many have said at least TiVo did something for the people affected and there are many companies that probably would not have.

This thread was not created to have people complain about TiVo or for others to attack those who decided to complain. It was created merely to ask those affected by the problems what they thought of TiVo's ultimate response to the situation. I posted my letters because at the time there were no postings from anyone about the email from TiVo to the "Lucky 200". Perhaps I was the first to receive such a letter. Perhaps not. But I was the first to bring the letter's attention to this forum and the response to posting that information has been fascinating to see.


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## mintakaX (Jan 4, 2005)

wbswbs said:


> Are you serious? Perhaps you're missing the point here. The whole point of this guy posting the letter was for the community to give its thoughts and opinions on the letter's content and the response from Tivo. I did so, and now I'm held up as being a jerk for doing so?? Nice.
> 
> Also, I don't work for TIVO or any company in the industry. Expressing an opinion that is not AGAINST TIVO doesn't make you a shill FOR Tivo.
> 
> Nice ad homenim attack...definitely go for the person rather than the content...


I was serious, although I didnt intend to be personally insulting. My apologies.
This "person rather than content" idea is interesting. I'll have to consider it.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

potters2643 said:


> I don't often post, but I think some of the people who have dubbed themselves the "lucky 200" are just trying to make a big enough deal out of the shipping to get an edge on whining about lifetime.


You know, if you don't understand the whole story, frankly, you should shut your piehole. Delays in shipping are nothing new and, had there been a full explanation up-front with an accurate delivery date and an easy cancellation option, I don't think anyone would have been terribly annoyed.

The issue is that they weren't even ready to ship on the first day, didn't ship when promised, promised repeatedly that they'd ship tomorrow or had already shipped when they hadn't, and it actually took some people over a week to get what they should have had in two days or less. The mixture of failure to deliver, refusing to cancel orders, and (I think) deliberate misinformation* is the source of aggravation here. It smacks of doing anything they could to keep people from changing their minds about the purchase when things had gone sour, and that's _bad_ business.

_* - I think it was deliberate misinformation, because very early on, several people at TiVo absolutely knew what was going on, and refused to allow that information to get out. A lie of omission is still a lie. They knowingly left their CSRs in the dark, and they were reading the forums, so they knew we were being misinformed, and yet, for an entire week, the CSRs remained in the dark._


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Aiken said:


> You know, if you don't understand the whole story, frankly, you should shut your piehole. Delays in shipping are nothing new and, had there been a full explanation up-front with an accurate delivery date and an easy cancellation option, I don't think anyone would have been terribly annoyed.
> 
> The issue is that they weren't even ready to ship on the first day, didn't ship when promised, promised repeatedly that they'd ship tomorrow or had already shipped when they hadn't, and it actually took some people over a week to get what they should have had in two days or less. The mixture of failure to deliver, refusing to cancel orders, and (I think) deliberate misinformation* is the source of aggravation here. It smacks of doing anything they could to keep people from changing their minds about the purchase when things had gone sour, and that's _bad_ business.
> 
> _* - I think it was deliberate misinformation, because very early on, several people at TiVo absolutely knew what was going on, and refused to allow that information to get out. A lie of omission is still a lie. They knowingly left their CSRs in the dark, and they were reading the forums, so they knew we were being misinformed, and yet, for an entire week, the CSRs remained in the dark._


Not posting often != don't know the whole story.

I'd love to know how you think that you know the whole story, since you seem to have know everything about how Tivo set out to deliberately deceive you. 

Mistakes happen, and rolling our a new computer system to your CSRs at the same time you're releasing a new product may not be the best idea, but these things happen.

Some people get over it, other people try to milk the situation to their own benefit and whine to try and feel important.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> Not posting often != don't know the whole story.
> 
> I'd love to know how you think that you know the whole story, since you seem to have know everything about how Tivo set out to deliberately deceive you.
> 
> ...


And some people clearly don't read the entire post they're responding to. That, or they find some of the points raised to be too inconvenient to acknowledge.

Really, you're either thick or you're trolling. This isn't a difficult concept to understand. Some offenses in this world are indeed quite insignificant. However, they way they are treated by the offender can, in turn, become quite significant. For instance, if someone steps on my toe, even if it's quite painful, I'm always ready to quickly forgive their mis-step. However, if they step on my toe and knowingly hurt it, but initially insist that they didn't step on my toe at all, that's pretty annoying and insulting to my intelligence, especially if it goes on like that for a long time. If, after considerable badgering, they eventually admit it and say "Geez, alright already, I'm _sorry_," that's a step in the right direction, but they also need to apologize for evading the issue and lying to me. Then, if some onlooker says, "Look, it's just your toe, get over it," without considering the second half of the equation, then maybe, just maybe, I'll tell them to shut their piehole, because they clearly don't get what's going on.

Edit: By the way, I've long since sent my S3 back. There's no potential benefit in this for me. There should have been, but at this point, I'm just arguing principle. Frankly, I'm wondering if the folks at TiVo consider the matter handled and closed. If so, that would be a shame, because I used to think more of them.


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## Timber (Apr 28, 2002)

Aiken said:


> Edit: By the way, I've long since sent my S3 back.


 

-=Tim=-


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

So buyer's remorse, eh?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Aiken said:


> Frankly, I'm wondering if the folks at TiVo consider the matter handled and closed. If so, that would be a shame, because I used to think more of them.


I am receiving a vision of a tin ear at the moment.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Aiken said:


> And some people clearly don't read the entire post they're responding to. That, or they find some of the points raised to be too inconvenient to acknowledge.
> 
> Really, you're either thick or you're trolling. This isn't a difficult concept to understand. Some offenses in this world are indeed quite insignificant. However, they way they are treated by the offender can, in turn, become quite significant. For instance, if someone steps on my toe, even if it's quite painful, I'm always ready to quickly forgive their mis-step. However, if they step on my toe and knowingly hurt it, but initially insist that they didn't step on my toe at all, that's pretty annoying and insulting to my intelligence, especially if it goes on like that for a long time. If, after considerable badgering, they eventually admit it and say "Geez, alright already, I'm _sorry_," that's a step in the right direction, but they also need to apologize for evading the issue and lying to me. Then, if some onlooker says, "Look, it's just your toe, get over it," without considering the second half of the equation, then maybe, just maybe, I'll tell them to shut their piehole, because they clearly don't get what's going on.
> 
> Edit: By the way, I've long since sent my S3 back. There's no potential benefit in this for me. There should have been, but at this point, I'm just arguing principle. Frankly, I'm wondering if the folks at TiVo consider the matter handled and closed. If so, that would be a shame, because I used to think more of them.


And when some people can't handle being wrong, they go for the personal attacks. 

I understand perfectly and have said as much. Some people see a mistake and some bad judgment, others see lying and evasion. So for some of us, the second half of the equation doesn't exist.

Since Tivo does seem to see this as handled and closed (at least from the letter from the CEO that's how it sounds), I guess you'll just go on being disappointed. It must be a tough, sad life when everyone is out to get you...

Speaking of pieholes, its about time that you shut yours, I think.


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## tunnelengineer (Jul 21, 2006)

I think they handled it quite well and the issue is closed. 

If you are still unhappy, don't buy their products anymore. No use coming on these boards and verbally attacking others.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

tunnelengineer said:


> No use coming on these boards and verbally attacking others.


You're pretty selective about applying that label, considering that I've been talking to someone who came to this thread and started verbally attacking the people who were posting to it. He referred to people as "whiners," and "crybabies."



GoHokies! said:


> And when some people can't handle being wrong, they go for the personal attacks.


That's a bit hypocritical, considering what I just noted above.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

bicker said:


> So buyer's remorse, eh?


No, when the delivery date was still indeterminate, I bought one locally. I don't want two.


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## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

I think you all deserve a free Series 3 just for having to read this thread.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Aiken said:


> You're pretty selective about applying that label, considering that I've been talking to someone who came to this thread and started verbally attacking the people who were posting to it. He referred to people as "whiners," and "crybabies."
> 
> That's a bit hypocritical, considering what I just noted above.


Insulting my intelligence != calling one who whines a "whiner"

Thanks for playing, sport!


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> Insulting my intelligence != calling one who whines a "whiner"


If you favored intelligence over belligerence, you'd have learned the proper (as opposed to common) definition of the concept of _begging the question_, and thus wouldn't make statements that assume the conclusion as part of the proposition, e.g. "calling one who whines a 'whiner'." It's fallacious logic used by people who can't argue their point properly.


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## DocSavag (Feb 18, 2006)

DavidTigerFan said:


> I think you all deserve a free Series 3 just for having to read this thread.


We really only deserve a free coupon for professional psychiatric evaluation for reading it.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

DavidTigerFan said:


> I think you all deserve a free Series 3 just for having to read this thread.


But with only two tuners, how would we resolve recording conflicts amongst us?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

Aiken said:


> If you favored intelligence over belligerence, you'd have learned the proper (as opposed to common) definition of the concept of _begging the question_, and thus wouldn't make statements that assume the conclusion as part of the proposition, e.g. "calling one who whines a 'whiner'." It's fallacious logic used by people who can't argue their point properly.


Whatever, dude - sorry you can't handle being called a whiner.

Like many of the other posters in here, you need to get past it, kick back and enjoy your S3, wherever you got it from.

This isn't Burger King, and you can't have it your way, [email protected]$$.

(There - now that's some verbal assaulting!)


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Just thought I'd throw this  up for a little compare and contrast; its from SlingMedia CEO Blake Kerkorian regarding broken promises on Mac support.



> Hey Charles/Kate/Readers,
> I am sorry for any confusion I may have caused. Kate from the Guardian was using a tape recorder during the interview, so obviously I must have said what Kate reported in the Q&A. I could put the blame on a late night in Amsterdam (where the interview took place), but no excuses...
> 
> Here's the situation to fully clarify:
> ...


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Aiken said:


> Yes, exactly. Sending us a form letter is bad enough, but giving us some of the swag they give people at trade shows as if it were some great thing is just insulting.


The messenger bag is a nice bag and NOT the kind of crap they give away at trade shows. In fact, I *have* one of the bags they gave away at CES and I had a couple of the messenger bags (I gave them away at the last Boston TiVo meetup) and they are completely different bags. The tradeshow bag is more like a fancy sack with heavy string for straps. Not bad for a show bag, but not like the quality messenger bags.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> I was actually surprised that the Series 3 didn't come with the TivoGuy window cling like the single tuner Series 2's did.


I don't even know if they still make those - they haven't include them in any of the new units for a while now.

I still have some - and I have some TiVo-guy antenna balls. But my new car doesn't have an antenna! (Well, OK, it is built into the frame so there is nothing to stick the guy on.)


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

megazone said:


> The messenger bag is a nice bag and NOT the kind of crap they give away at trade shows. In fact, I *have* one of the bags they gave away at CES and I had a couple of the messenger bags (I gave them away at the last Boston TiVo meetup) and they are completely different bags. The tradeshow bag is more like a fancy sack with heavy string for straps. Not bad for a show bag, but not like the quality messenger bags.


Yeah, I know. I don't think I had mine yet when I posted to this thread, and really, I didn't want to revive it at this point. I, too, have one of their cheaper swag versions and that's what I was expecting again this time.

Still, I didn't ask for a(nother) messenger bag and I have absolutely no use for it. Crap, send me a TiVo guy plushie or a t-shirt or a cap or something else that's actually fun to have. Send me an optical cable. I could use that. Why a messenger bag, of all things? I still think they just sent us some merchandise they couldn't get anyone to buy through the store.


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

Hello.

Here's brief update on a new annoying wrinkle in the whole mess that has been taken care of after a semi-long phone call with TiVo Support.

The first charge I ever received regarding the S3 was for $46.99. This was a charge for the shipping of the unit and the tax on the shipping. This was unexpected because by the time of the charge I had been told that there would be no charge for the shipping. I was later refunded $43.41 for the shipping, but not for the sales tax.

I just called and had to speak to several people about this, but one person had said that they would not be able to refund the tax because that is handled by the state (I'm in California). When asked why I was being charged sales tax for something I should not have been charged for in the first place they went to go talk to their supervisor.

In the end they will be refunding the sales tax charge as well.

I bring this up because I am guessing that other people might be in the same situation as me. The TiVo accounting computers apparently will not be able to refund the sales tax charge. You will need to call support and have the tax refunded manually.


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## samual.icky (Sep 18, 2006)

I was always looking for an email address to just complain to while I waited and waited and waited some more for my Series 3 where does one find email address for TiVo... I couldn't find a single thing on the site...

BTW: If TiVo sent me a bag I would have returned such a bribe...


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## derekcbart (Sep 2, 2005)

samual.icky said:


> I was always looking for an email address to just complain to while I waited and waited and waited some more for my Series 3 where does one find email address for TiVo... I couldn't find a single thing on the site...
> 
> BTW: If TiVo sent me a bag I would have returned such a bribe...


All of the TiVo email addresses are [email protected], so CEO Tom Rogers is [email protected].


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