# Bye Bye Tivo



## firmie (Jan 7, 2005)

Got an offer from DirecTV to upgrade to their DVR platform for $100, but get this...I have two Tivo HR10-250's and the old 3 lnb dish set up. So for $100 they are going to come out and install two of the HR20's, and new 5 lnb dish, and run second lines to each of my new DVR's..yes I only had one line going to each before. All for $100.

It was an offer to good to refuse...

now I have 2 HR10-250's to sell.....I will miss Tivo  

Firmie


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## jtlytle (May 17, 2005)

Well, You better save your old TiVo just in case....


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

Be wary of an offer that sounds too good 

I just got an HR20 in addition to my two HR10-250's.......same deal...$100 and they installed new dish and new multiswitches (16 ports)

and it is probably going back.

I can't stand the interface, and it is useless since you can swap between tuners and can't buffer two tuners.

The FF has no auto jump back so I always FF through the commercials, end up into the show, stop and have to rewind again.

What a pain

I'm keeping it until the problem with the audio drop-outs are fixed on the HR10-250's, then giving it back to them.


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

I don't get it. What's makes this offer "to (sic) good to refuse"? Yeah, you're getting an additional line to each DVR, but: you're losing your TiVos, which are being replaced by POS DVRs; and you're paying $100 for the privilege. Doesn't sound that good to me.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

You'll gain those second lines, but will only be able to utilize them in the form of *recording* 2 channels at once. The main benefit (to me) of having both tuners hooked up is to be able to switch between the two...and you _cannot do that_ with the HR20 because of the lack of dual buffers.

And as mentioned above....hang on to that HR10. If you have the same problems that many of us have with the HR20 (missed recordings/recordings that "aren't there" even though they say that they are), you'll be very glad that you did.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Sir_winealot said:


> You'll gain those second lines, but will only be able to utilize them in the form of *recording* 2 channels at once. The main benefit (to me) of having both tuners hooked up is to be able to switch between the two...and you _cannot do that_ with the HR20 because of the lack of dual buffers.
> 
> And as mentioned above....hang on to that HR10. If you have the same problems that many of us have with the HR20 (missed recordings/recordings that "aren't there" even though they say that they are), you'll be very glad that you did.


I don't know why not being able to switch between two buffers is such a big deal. It's a DVR! To me that means I record shows and watch them on my schedule. No more live TV for me! No more commercials either.

That said, I did buy a Tivo Series 3 since most of what I watch comes in for free over the air. I also had a Toshiba Tivo DVR/DVD receiver with lifetime on it so it made sense to get a Series 3 and transfer the lifetime. The Tivo Series 3 is available for $650 or less on line. There will be no HR20s in my house!


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Well, _especially_ during football season, having the dual b's is great. But the wife likes to toggle between 2 programs while watching stuff sometimes (most of the _recorded _ stuff, we watch together).

She'll pause something when a commercial comes on, flip to the 2nd tuner and watch something else...then flip back to the paused tuner.

We've become spoiled with the HR10 and TiVo.

It just baffles me that D* didn't find it important enough to include in their "new and improved" version.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

I'm with Runch on not switching tuners. I've never done this in the nearly 3 years I've had Directivo. But I don't watch football either.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

unixadm said:


> it is useless since you can swap between tuners and can't buffer two tuners.
> 
> .


Do you think this will be rectified so that it can dual buffer? And is it a software fix so that it could be downloaded to the HR20s?


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

From what *I've* read, D* isn't really considering it at this time....and if it ever happens, it will be a loooong way down the road.

And yes, it's all software.


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## Grentz (Aug 11, 2005)

Well, I will be getting 2 HR20s as well. I never had the HR10 (or Directv HD for that matter) but I am now upgrading to HD. 

I currently have a Directv Tivo, so it will be interesting to see how the switch goes. I do not want an HR10 though as the new HD broadcasts will not be on it...along with the locals in HD that are currently available in my area over the dish (i do not get very good OTA recepetion even with a huge antenna). Still wish I could get an MPEG4 HD Tivo...but I have been looking and the HR20 has some neat features too. The interactive stuff is pretty neat and the RF remote is gonna rock for my second setup


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I had my HR20 hooked up for about a week. After several missed recordings (despite the programs being listed in the To Do list) and it not being able to tell what a repeat is (despite it clearly being indicated in the program data) it's going back.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

If you want to switch between two tuners can't you just hit the record button and then switch between both? I don't have this box ands have no plans on getting it myself but this seems like a way to get around only one live buffer.


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## TomF (Apr 13, 2001)

I've had an HR10 for over a year and an HR20 since the beginning of October. I would strongly urge you not to jump in with both feet but rather phase in the HR20s one at time with one of your HR10s backing up the first HR20.

The HR20 has been the least reliable product that I have ever purchased, including computers. The first one that was installed was DOA and the installer had to go back to his office to get another one. For awhile it required rebooting daily, some days as many as four times. During one two day period, I lost all six shows that had recorded over those two days. Fortunately, my HR10 faithfully and reliably recorded them, although with audio dropouts on CBS (6.3a still). Some people have experienced no problems whatsoever from the start so maybe you'll be lucky.

Having said this, the box continues to get more reliable. Since the last software release that I got on Tuesday early morning, I have had no glitches at all, but most of the programs I record have been on break for at least the last week.

If you're determined to sell them, I would hold on to at least one of them until both HR20s prove to be reliable to you.


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## willbhome (Aug 28, 2002)

And, remember; the $100 is to allow you to RENT the equipment, not own it. Make SURE they're not expecting your HR10s in "trade".


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## TomF (Apr 13, 2001)

willbhome said:


> And, remember; the $100 is to allow you to RENT the equipment, not own it. Make SURE they're not expecting your HR10s in "trade".


This shouldn't be a problem if the HR10s were obtained before March or April when DirecTV went to the lease model. Unless they send you boxes to return them you don't have to.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

TomF said:


> I've had an HR10 for over a year and an HR20 since the beginning of October. I would strongly urge you not to jump in with both feet but rather phase in the HR20s one at time with one of your HR10s backing up the first HR20.


That's exactly what I did. I got an HR20, but kept my HR10 as the "main" machine. I like the TiVo interface better, and it certainly is (at least right now) a lot more reliable -- like virtually 100%. I can't recall ever missing a recording in 2+ years, except when my local station had a problem. Which not so coincidentally is WHY I got the HR20 -- I wanted it so I could pick up the MPEG-4 locals from an adjacent market as a backup.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Sir_winealot said:


> She'll pause something when a commercial comes on, flip to the 2nd tuner and watch something else...then flip back to the paused tuner.
> 
> It just baffles me that D* didn't find it important enough to include in their "new and improved" version.


Maybe it's because they figured normal people only watch one show at a time. 

Personally flipping back in forth would drive me nuts and would be grounds for divorce.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

firmie said:


> Got an offer from DirecTV to upgrade to their DVR platform for $100, but get this...I have two Tivo HR10-250's and the old 3 lnb dish set up. So for $100 they are going to come out and install two of the HR20's, and new 5 lnb dish, and run second lines to each of my new DVR's..yes I only had one line going to each before. All for $100.
> 
> It was an offer to good to refuse...
> 
> ...




Sorry. But yeah, If you just have to have DTV for some reason (NFL ST, maybe??) and you want to get more HD stuff, you do have to go to something other than TiVo. It's too bad. Curse you, DTV!!!


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## tfederov (Jul 6, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> Sorry. But yeah, If you just have to have DTV for some reason (NFL ST, maybe??) and you want to get more HD stuff, you do have to go to something other than TiVo. It's too bad. Curse you, DTV!!!


I thought you had cable!!


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

unixadm said:


> Be wary of an offer that sounds too good


It's actually not that good. Free is how I and many got theirs. It's really only TiVo where you *have to* pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars for the hardware.



> I just got an HR20 in addition to my two HR10-250's.......same deal...$100 and they installed new dish and new multiswitches (16 ports)
> 
> and it is probably going back.
> 
> ...


I can't cut you much slack on this Kevin. You of all people must have known that DLB and Auto Correct were not features of this unit.

DLB is an enormous deal breaker for many people, and I'm in the camp that I don't think it is important to DTV. I want them, I'm fine without them, but I certainly don't expect it. If it's a true deal breaker, research the work arounds and proceed cautiously.

Auto Correct is as simple as hitting replay when coming out of FF. A little practice (just like it took when you first got TiVo), and you'll be a pro.



> I'm keeping it until the problem with the audio drop-outs are fixed on the HR10-250's, then giving it back to them.


If you're waiting for the HR10 to be good, I don't think they'll take the HR20 back after that long. 

Seriously, to everyone, I give the same advice. If you want to try the HR20, get it, but keep your HR10 for peace of mind for a little while. After some period of time, it will be clear whether it's right for you to get rid of the HR10, or the HR20.

There is no overwhelming need for someone to switch unless they NEED their HD Locals via Mpeg4.

If you do switch, and you've only read the forums to date, my guess is that your surprise will be pleasant.


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## firmie (Jan 7, 2005)

Thanks for the responses...lots of info. But here is the dilema...as stated in above posts, if I want new HD stuff then I have to switch and if I want locals (not the east coast feed) then I need to switch.

With that said I am switching but not sure how to use Tivo as backup...does the HR10-250 work with the new 5lnd dish set-up?

Thanks for the help...


Firmie


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Well personally I like the new DVR. Yes I wish it had dual live buffers but that is a minor concern for me. I did like it for football but I don't have NFLST so I rarely get 2 games on at once anyway. That was the only thing I really used DLBs for. Also the speed of this unit is sooooooooooooooo much faster than the HR10. It would drive me crazy having to wait several minutes to reorder my season passes. Also I like the interface and the quick menu. 
I have had to restart the HR20 about a dozen times since I got it in October so I would like to see improvement in stability, however I have not had the problems of missed recordings that others have reported.

Check out www.dbstalk.com for more information about this DVR.

ETA: Yes the HR10 will work fine with the 5lnb dish you just won't be able to get the Mpeg 4 channels.


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## wes000 (Apr 5, 2004)

I think my H10 is much faster after the software upgrade months ago and speed is no longer an issue. 

to the OP: You are probably locked into a 2 year commitment now for this deal. I hate being commited to a bill.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

jtlytle said:


> Well, You better save your old TiVo just in case....


Why? The HR10 with the 6.3a/b version of the software is less reliable then the hr20.

Just had another lockup while recording a christmas show for the kids, add daily restart issues, audio dropouts, missed recordings, scheduled recordings the either start late or end early and it appears that a drunk monkey with a super 8 movie camera would be reliable.

BTW this is still happening on the unit D* shipped me 10 days ago, internal temp is acceptable for processor based gear so it is not a overheat issue. The unit is in a custom designed and built rack with UPS and sufficient airflow.

On hold at the moment while the CSR at D* checks to see if there really is a problem wth the HR10's locking up and dropping audio or if it is just a "internet FUD attempt", they already tried the "DO a clear and delete to fix this problem" check box on the clueless cheat sheet.

I could care less about sports, so dual buffers mean little to me, realiablity of unit is my major concern, and right now the HR20 appears to be more reliable then the HR10. The GUI is another thing that mean nothing to me, the current TIVO is years behond the times, even linux install GUI's are more advanced and user friendly.


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## satmeister (Mar 24, 2006)

Its always hard saying goodbye.  

I did the same thing 4 months ago, and got 2 of the new HR20's. 

Personally, I like the new units much better, but I do reminisce about the old days with the Tivo box and grab a Kleenex...


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

wes000 said:


> I think my H10 is much faster after the software upgrade months ago and speed is no longer an issue.





sjberra said:


> Why? The HR10 with the 6.3a/b version of the software is less reliable then the hr20.


The DVR that last missed a recording wasn't the HR20, it was the HR10, which went into a comatose state a week ago and I had to pull the plug to reset.



wes000 said:


> to the OP: You are probably locked into a 2 year commitment now for this deal. I hate being commited to a bill.


By the same token, he'd want to avoid TiVo since you know have to commit to 3 years to get the old $12.99/mo. rate.


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## bwaldron (Mar 16, 2003)

sjberra said:


> Why? The HR10 with the 6.3a/b version of the software is less reliable then the hr20.


Not in my experience, and I own and use both. It's clear that many folks are having issues with 6.3x, but it's also clear that many are having problems with the HR20.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

sjberra said:


> Why? The HR10 with the 6.3a/b version of the software is less reliable then the hr20.


Maybe for you. After a couple of early reboots my 6.3a has been generally reliabel and hasn't had anywhere close to the kind of problems I've seen discussed by HR20 users.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

nrc said:


> Maybe for you. After a couple of early reboots my 6.3a has been generally reliabel and hasn't had anywhere close to the kind of problems I've seen discussed by HR20 users.


Different strokes for different folks, have been through 4 of them in 19 months. When this one fails it will be introduced to the back 40 and a remington pump with duck shot.

If you read the boards here, there are a ton of issues with the HR10 also.


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## ST8FAN (Dec 26, 2006)

Newbie here and I need help. I own the HR 10-250 and love it. However, I understand by reading this thread that it is not capable of receiving Mpeg4 HD signals. If I keep the HR10 and do not upgrade to HR20, what HD programming will I miss out on? I hope not ESPN or the NY network channels.


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## gquiring (Dec 13, 2002)

I don't get all this "Tivo is great" crap. Read the threads in this forum and it's loaded with audio dropout threads, reboots and other issues. I have had audio dropouts well before the 6.3 upgrade, just recently had it go nuts and not record a Xmas special on TNT and lost a couple of other shows. And the dual buffer issue is a non issue for me. And starting this week my NY OTA guide is weird and confirmed by others on this forum. So again I don't see what this fuss over this Tivo is.....

I for one look forward to something else, Tivo is overrated.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

marklopez said:


> Maybe it's because they figured normal people only watch one show at a time.
> 
> Personally flipping back in forth would drive me nuts and would be grounds for divorce.


Ya know, since you've mentioned this I would agree, and I've slapped her around a little bit and filed with my attorney to dump her. No way I'm living with someone that 'flips back and forth...' so, as always I truly appreciate your input. 



gquiring said:


> I for one look forward to something else, Tivo is overrated.


For me, I've had no problems with my HR10's....and _none_ of them have ever missed a recording. If that's 'over rated,' so be it; but they do exactly what I ask of them.

If the HR20 (or anything else for that matter) did the same, I would be content...but it _has not_...and missed recordings are inexcusable.

An opinion.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

Ah, welcome to 2006, the year when DVRs went completely to hell. What are our choices?

* HR10? Dead-end product that seems increasingly unstable with each release
* HR20? Less stable than the HR10 for many after 13 software releases in 3 months
* SciAm/Moto? Crappy UI, limited HD space, etc. 
* Series 3? Seems good, but costs a bundle and doesn't have some of the famous Tivo features (MRV, TTG). Oh, and cable companies will make the CC 1.0 slots obsolete in a year or so.

Are there any choices that actually feel like an upgrade anymore? I can't see any 

The HR10 isn't perfect, but until very, very recently, it was a reliable & functional HD DVR. Now my HR10 reboots at least once/week, and I know from reading here it's unlikely that it's a hard drive issue. If you call DirecTV they'll give you the runaround, or try to make you "upgrade" to the HR20. Or I switch to cable, with any of the options (build my own box, Series 3, Motorola box) I get at best a sideways trade in features and a big increase in cost. 

It sounds like out of the frying pan and into the fire, no matter what you do.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

ST8FAN said:


> Newbie here and I need help. I own the HR 10-250 and love it. However, I understand by reading this thread that it is not capable of receiving Mpeg4 HD signals. If I keep the HR10 and do not upgrade to HR20, what HD programming will I miss out on? I hope not ESPN or the NY network channels.


*For the next year or so the only thing you're only missing on the HR10 is the ability to get the MPEG4 version of HD local network channels via satellite. *Sometime in late 2007 or 2008 (I'm estimating here) DirecTV will shut off the MPEG2 feeds of the NY and LA HD locals and convert existing national HD channels (including ESPN) to MPEG4. Also, any new national HD channels will only be broadcast in MPEG4, so you won't be able to get those (there isn't any schedule for which new national HD channels will be available and when).

Your HR10 will still get all the SD channels via satellite and any HD locals you get OTA, indefinitely.


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## Mythica (Aug 27, 2006)

Once my HR10-250 isn't usable anymore, I'm going to stick with my Series 3. My husband and I use the dual live buffers all of the time (mostly for sporting events) and according to D*, they *can't* put it into their DVRs because it is a patented process from TiVo. That's why Dish had to recall some of their DVRs that had this feature because it was a patent infringement from TiVo. I'll just have to deal with the sucky quality of cable when I have to, but with all of the problems that I've been having with the HR10-250, I may be switching pretty soon. Most of the stuff I record is OTA anyway.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Mythica said:


> b That's why Dish had to recall some of their DVRs that had this feature because it was a patent infringement from TiVo.


Just to be clear, Dish did not recall any DVRs because of patent infringement. They were ordered to disable all DVRs that infringed (almost all of the active ones), but that order was stayed, pending Echostar's federal appeal.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

jcricket said:


> * Series 3? Seems good, but costs a bundle and doesn't have some of the famous Tivo features (MRV, TTG). Oh, and cable companies will make the CC 1.0 slots obsolete in a year or so.


Where in the world did you get the idea that CableCARD 1.0 devices won't work in a year or so? I can't disagree with most of your list, but this statement is just silly.


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