# Summary of TiVo's new pricing announcements



## TiVoStephen

Hi Folks! Based on your recommendations, here is a separate, concise thread summarizing what's going on with our new pricing.

This is NOT a discussion thread. If you have comments or opinions or general questions, please post in one of the other threads. We want to hear from you, but not in this thread. But, if you have clarifications or suggestions on how we can improve the clarity, please post here.

This is also NOT a philosophy thread. It's not about why we're doing things or how it affects TiVo's financial well-being or our market position or anything like that. This is just about the nuts and bolts of how it works. There are other threads where we discuss the philosophy.

The post below is fairly detailed and goes into the types of questions that many customers won't ask (but are of course important for detail-oriented forum members).

Want a simpler summary of what was announced? Check either of these:

The press release: http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_82.html
The official TiVo blog: http://blog.tivo.com/tivo_blog/2006/03/if_i_had_a_doll.html and http://blog.tivo.com/tivo_blog/2006/03/post.html
TiVo.com: http://www.tivo.com/2.0.asp and the FAQs (http://www.tivo.com/2.2.asp)

* * *

On Wednesday March 8, TiVo announced two things:


Product Lifetime is no longer offered for new subscriptions online (as of Thursday, March 16, 2005).
Some brand new pricing options are now available, including bundled pricing (service plus a box for one monthly fee). More details below.
Everything else, including existing subscriptions, is unchanged.

*Section 1: What's NOT changing*

For existing subscribers: If youre perfectly happy with the TiVo pricing you have and had no plans to purchase and activate a new TiVo unit, then youre completely unaffected.


Your monthly stays at $12.95 (or $6.95 if you have the Multi Service Discount).
Any existing Product Lifetime contracts are still honored.
Existing Multi Service Discount rules are unchanged.
Existing rules about ownership transfers and service transfers are unchanged.
Existing gift cards are still valid.

*Section 2: Product Lifetime no longer an option*

Here are the details about Product Lifetime going away:

As of Thursday, 3/16, you are no longer able to choose Product Lifetime when you activate or re-activate service via www.tivo.com/activate/ or Manage My Account (http://www.tivo.com/manage/).

This means that if you don't have Product Lifetime already, you won't be able to get it online. Existing customers cannot convert their existing monthly contracts into Product Lifetime online. It is no longer available as an option.

Is there any way to get Product Lifetime right now? Yes. There are a few ways to get Product Lifetime even now:


You have until 4/15/06 to call and activate Product Lifetime service on any DVR except DVRs purchased via one of the new bundled pricing options (see below). Activating Product Lifetime Service is not available online; you must call TiVo Customer Support (1-877-367-8486) in order to activate Product Lifetime service. After 4/15/06, this option is no longer available.
Due to the terms of our relationship with Humax, however, new Humax DVD Recorder products (DRT400/800/2000) not previously activated for service (that is, they have no activation history) will continue to be eligible for Product Lifetime service activation. They are not affected by the 3/16/06 purchase cutoff or the 4/15/06 Product Lifetime activation cutoff. Again, you must call TiVo Customer Support in order to activate Product Lifetime service. Humax DVD Recorder products which have already been activated for service have until 4/15/06 to upgrade to Product Lifetime service. After 4/15/06, Humax DVD Recorder products with an activation history will no longer have Product Lifetime service as an activation option. 
If you already possess a Product Lifetime gift certificate or gift card, you may call Customer Support to activate Product Lifetime using your gift certificate or gift card (but note that these are no longer for sale and have not been offered for several months, so if you don't own one already, you won't be able to get one).
Certain contests and promotions may offer prizes that include Product Lifetime.

If you have a special situation not covered in the above, please call TiVo Customer Support (1-877-367-8486), explain your situation, and they will do their best to help you.

Note that NONE of the units sold from tivo.com currently are eligible for Product Lifetime (including the Web specials). That's because all of these units are currently sold as a bundle, and bundles are not eligible for Product Lifetime. (See the next section for more about bundles.)

*Section 3: New Pricing Options*

Thanks to our new options, there are now two types of service pricing for the TiVo service:


Bundled pricing
Service-only pricing
Each of these are summarized next.


*Bundled pricing:* Starting Monday March 13, if you buy a new unit from TiVo.com, you can take advantage of the new bundled pricing, which combines the TiVo service with a new 80-hr standalone Series2 DVR for a single fee.

NOTE: On tivo.com, the official name for bundled pricing is "TiVo Package."

See http://www.tivo.com/buy to take advantage of this pricing.

Basically you can get a unit with no upfront fee. You'll sign up for either a monthly fee for one, two, or three years, or you'll prepay service for one, two, or three years.

These options ONLY apply if you purchase from tivo.com. It does not apply to retail units or other units you may possess -- for service on units you already own, please see section 2 below under "service-only" pricing. (We did announce that we are working with retailers to make bundled options available there as well, sometime in the future.)

Here are the pricing choices:

The price for a TiVo box and a one-year service commitment is $19.95 a month, or $224 prepaid.
The price for a TiVo box and a two-year service commitment is $18.95 a month, or $369 prepaid.
The price for a TiVo box and a three-year service commitment is $16.95 a month, or $469 prepaid.

The box in question is an 80-hour standalone Series2 DVR.

Bundles that include other types of boxes (e.g., the upcoming Series3) have not been announced.

The 30-day money back guarantee does apply to bundle purchases. Cancel service within the first 30 days and return the box, and your entire bundled cost is credited back. (You'll have 15 days after you cancel to return the box, or else you will be charged the retail value of the box.)

About the commitment period:
If you cancel before the end of the commitment term, you will be charged the remaining balance on your service commitment, up to $200. You get to keep the box.
For prepaid bundles of box and service, there is no early termination fee but after the 30-day money-back guarantee period, no refund will be given.
Here's what happens after your commitment period is over: If you do nothing, you will continue to be billed each month at the same rate as your original contract. For example, suppose you buy the bundle with $19.95 for a one year commitment. After twelve months, by default, you'll continue to be billed $19.95 per month. Or, if you purchase the bundle with $469 prepaid (which includes 3 years of service), after 36 months you will start being billed $16.95 per month. Once the commitment period is up, you can cancel at any time.
Once the commitment is up, you can call us and switch to the service-only monthly or prepay pricing option of your choice (see the next section). For example, you can call and switch to a $12.95 per month service-only plan (with a 12-month commitment).

*Service-only pricing:* If you buy a new unit from retail, or have an existing unit with no service, you'll purchase service-only pricing.

What does "service-only" mean? It means you're not getting a box as well, you're only buying service. That's the new name for the type of service we've been selling to date.

The existing monthly fee of $12.95 with a one-year commitment is unchanged.

What does that mean? It means that next month you can go out to Best Buy, pick up a unit, and then activate it for $12.95 per month (with a one year commitment), just like today.

It also means that if you pay $12.95 per month today, your monthly cost doesn't change.

It also means that if you don't have a service commitment today (e.g., you purchased service before there was a one year commitment, or you're past the twelve months) you don't have any new service commitments for as long as your contract remains uncanceled.

The existing Multi-Service Discount (MSD) fee of $6.95 is also unchanged. There are more details about MSD below.

If you cancel your service-only contract prior to the end of the commitment, you are subject to an early termination fee (currently $150) or the balance of your contract, whichever is less.

If you are not within a commitment period, you can cancel service at any time.

*Service-only prepay options:* Service-only prepay options are available starting Friday, March 17. These prepay options let you avoid a monthly fee by pre-paying a lump sum. There are options for one, two and three years of service. Here are the details:

For one-year of service, you can prepay $155.
For two years of service, you can prepay $299.
For three years of service, you can prepay $399.
For service-only prepay packages, no early termination fee applies, but there is no refund given after the 30-day money back guarantee period.

Prepay packages are subject to our 30-day money back guarantee. Anytime within the first 30 days you can call us for a refund of the amount prepaid and cancel your service.

*For Multi-Service Discount (MSD):*

First off, please check out the existing FAQs for MSD if you're unfamiliar with this program, since the basic rules haven't changed:

http://www.tivo.com/1.6.2.asp#MSD


Existing MSD subscriptions are unaffected. You pay $6.95 today? That's unchanged, unless you cancel your service on that unit or you cancel service on the full-price subscription that qualifies you for the discount.
Suppose you buy a unit at retail. You can still activate monthly service-only for only $6.95 (as long as you have a full-priced subscription on your account to qualify you for the MSD pricing).
The new bundle options and prepaid service-only options are not eligible for MSD -- that means if you have an existing unit you CANNOT get a new bundle and pay $6.95 for that bundle instead of the fees listed above.
However, the new bundles described above (as well as the service-only prepay options) ARE considered to be full-priced, so they DO qualify any other monthly service-only contracts for MSD.

For example: Suppose you have a Product Lifetime subscription on a Series1. You want to get a new Series2 so you purchase one of the new bundle options. You pick $18.95 for a two year commitment. The new bundle is NOT eligible for MSD, so for two years it will be $18.95. After those two years, however, it is now eligible for MSD, so you can call us to switch to service-only pricing and the monthly price will be reduced to the MSD price. (If you don't call us, you'll stay at $18.95 per month indefinitely.)

Another example: Suppose you have a Series2 with a monthly plan on $12.95. You want to get another Series2 for your bedroom, so you purchase one of the new bundle options. You pick $469 prepaid. Immediately and automatically, your existing $12.95 monthly fee drops to $6.95 per month.


Phew, that's the basics!

*Section 4: Q&A*

Here are some other questions and answers:

Q. Why so many pricing options?

A. Testing showed that we needed to offer consumers a wide range of options to fit their needs. If youre worried this is too complicated when you talk to your friends  well, you dont have to offer all options to every friend. For some friends, Ill tell them, Hey, you can now get a brand new 80-hour TiVo standalone Series2 unit for no upfront fee, starting at just $16.95 per month. For other friends, perhaps someone who didnt like monthly fees, Id steer them towards one of the prepay options, depending on how long a commitment they want.

Q. Did you raise prices?

A. No. Your existing service charges are unchanged. The basic option of $12.95 per month for service (with a one year commitment) if you own a unit is unchanged. With the new options that are also available, consumers will pay far less out upfront to own a unit: You can now get an 80-hour Series2 DVR with no upfront fee starting at $16.95 per month (with a three-year commitment).

Q. If I purchase a bundle, do I own the TiVo box at the end of my service commitment or do I have to give it back?

A. You own the TiVo box at the time of purchase. If you decide to cancel service after 30 days, you will be charged a cancellation fee, but you keep the box. Please see full terms and conditions.

Q. What happens if my TiVo box breaks during my service commitment?

A. All TiVo boxes are subject to the TiVo DVR Limited Warranty. Please see the full TiVo DVR Limited Warranty for details (http://www.tivo.com/2.6.1.3.asp). During the term of your commitment, TiVo will extend the length of the parts warranty for the length of your term for TiVo-branded DVRs. If your box breaks, TiVo will replace it for a reasonable fee.

Q. Are the new bundle options available in Canada?

A. Stand by for the answer to that. The $12.95 per month service-only plan is available in Canada, no change there.

Q. Can I continue to transfer the ownership of my Product Lifetime contracts (e.g., give it to a neighbor, cousin, etc.)?

A. Yes, just as you can today. You can give your DVR to someone else and the Product Lifetime service goes with the box. Either you or the recipient must call TiVo Customer Support (1-877-367-8486) to transfer the ownership.

NOTE: As always, buyer must beware in cases where you purchase a unit with Product Lifetime from a stranger. Be sure that you have the ownership transferred to you as soon as possible, and make sure the seller is not planning on transferring the service via the grandfather transfer or some other transfer. If they do so, your only recourse is to mediate with the seller.

Q. Can I transfer the ownership of my bundled package to someone else and have them complete the balance of the contract?

A. No. This is not allowed today on monthly contracts, and is not allowed with the new bundles either.

Q. Can I transfer my Product Lifetime service contract to new hardware?

A. For Product Lifetime, the answer is no, just like today. This isn't really part of our announcement and the rules haven't changed, but since this is a frequently asked question I'm including it here. Product Lifetime is always tied to the specific box that you activated, as defined in the terms of the Product Lifetime Description: http://www.tivo.com/0.4.asp

There are only four exceptions:


*30-day money back guarantee*: During the first 30 days after you activate your Product Lifetime service, you can transfer freely from one unit to another.
*Grandfather transfer*: The one-time "Grandfather transfer" (for people who purchased Product Lifetime on or before January 21, 2000 [as in, more than six years ago], and who have not already used their one-time transfer) is still allowed and will also be honored for future hardware releases from TiVo, such as the Series3. If you have any trouble when you call, please mention KDB code 09-07-04 to the agent.
*Authorized warranty replacement:*In the event that a unit with Product Lifetime malfunctions, you can opt to have it repaired under warranty by the manufacturer. If the manufacturer (whether it's TiVo, Humax, Sony, etc.) cannot repair the unit and opts to replace it, we will transfer the Product Lifetime service to the new unit. In most cases this happens automatically. If not, you can usually make the change yourself in Manage My Account or by calling customer support.
*Extended warranty through a retailer*: As a courtesy, TiVo will usually allow a Product Lifetime service transfer in the case that you purchased an extended warranty from a retailer, and the retailer was not able to repair the unit and instead replaced it with an equivalent unit under the terms of their extended warranty program. Note that customer support might ask to see evidence of the extended warranty agreement.

Q. Can I transfer an existing monthly service-only contract or bundled service contract to new hardware? Suppose I get a box from retail or my cousin or eBay and want to switch service. Or I buy a shiny new Series3?

A. Yes. We call this a "Service Number Change" in Manage My Account and you can handle this transaction yourself at any time by going to http://www.tivo.com/manage/

This option is available today on monthly service-only contracts, and will still be available for all plans (except Product Lifetime) once the new pricing options go into effect.

Note that the old unit will no longer have service, which means it probably will have limited or no function.

Note also that the balance of your service commitment is unchanged, and transfers to the new hardware as well.

Suppose, for example, you purchase a bundled service package with an 80-hour Series2 DVR and a three year commitment at $16.95 per month. After 17 months you want to switch your service to a new Series3. You can do that. You'll purchase the new Series3 at retail, use Manage My Account to change your TiVo Service Number on your contract, and now your Series3 is activated at $16.95 per month, with 19 months left on your service commitment. Your Series2 unit will no longer have service.

Note that your Series3 unit would probably NOT be eligible for any rebate (if applicable), since our rebates typically require a new service activation.

Q. What about unredeemed Product Lifetime gift subscriptions? Will those still be honored after Wednesday 3/15?

A. Yes. We will honor your unredeemed Product Lifetime gift subscription. When you go to redeem your Product Lifetime gift subscription, it can be used on future hardware platforms such as the Series3.

Note that we stopped selling Product Lifetime gift subscriptions several months ago (and removed them from the Rewards program earlier this year, there was a thread before that happened). So if you don't have one already, the above does not apply to you.

Q. What about unredeemed 3-, 6-, or 12- month gift subscriptions?

A. They can be applied towards any service-only plan until they expire. The current cash value of the card ($12.95 x the number of months) will be applied against the cost of the service-only plan you choose. You'll only be responsible for the balance.

They cannot be applied towards bundled pricing.

---
EDITS: 12:20pm to 12:43pm on 3/10/06:
* Added (per ChuckyBox's pointer suggestion) a pointer from bundlied to service-only for units you already own.
* Added a new paragraph clarifying Product Lifetime's non-availability after next Wednesday for existing subscribers (per jfh3's question).
* Expanded the Q&A section on Product Lifetime service transfers.
* Added a note of caution when buying a unit with Product Lifetime.

EDIT 1:10pm: Changed grandfather date from January 20 to January 21. Added the KDB number. Added the 30-day money back guarantee rule. Added some clarification per Dan203's suggestion.

EDIT 4:45pm on 3/13/06: Updated time references about "next week" (which is now "this week") to be more specific, added details about the new service-only prepay options.

EDIT: 7:55pm on 3/13/06: Additional clarifications/exceptions for Product Lifetime going away

EDIT: 10:45am on 3/14/06: "prepare" -> "prepay" (thanks Megazone). Also more specific details on Humax models. Indicated more details about when Product Lifetime goes away -- 8pm on Thursday 3/16.

EDIT: 12:45am on 3/17/06: Updated article now that Product Lifetime is removed from tivo.com. Various small wording changes. Added some URLs and fixed the broken URL DVDKingdom pointed out.

EDIT 6:25pm on 3/21/06: Updated article with new Product Lifetime extension to 4/15.

EDIT: 9:20am on 3/23/06: Clarified that none of the units sold from tivo.com today are eligible for Product Lifetime. Some minor wording clarifications.


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## tai-pan

works for me


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## ZeoTiVo

Mods - make this a sticky please so we can point to it for those with questions


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## TechDreamer

So the bundle prices do not include Labor in the warranty on the box after 90 days?


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## ChuckyBox

Stephen,



TiVoOpsMgr said:


> *Bundled pricing:* Starting sometime next week, if you buy a new unit from TiVo.com, you can take advantage of the new bundled pricing, which combines the TiVo service with a new 80-hr standalone Series2 DVR for a single fee.
> 
> Basically you can get a unit with no upfront fee. You'll sign up for either a monthly fee for one, two, or three years, or you'll prepay service for one, two, or three years.
> 
> These options ONLY apply if you purchase from tivo.com. It does not apply to retail units or other units you may possess.





At this point you might want to say something like 'For these units, see Section 2 "Service-only pricing," below.'


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## jfh3

"Product Lifetime will no longer be offered for new subscriptions, starting sometime shortly after Wednesday 3/15/06."

Clarification please - does the above mean that if I have a current subscription at $12.95/month with x months left to go that a Product Lifetime sub can still be purchased after Wednesday up until x months have passed? (e.g. are you making a difference between a subscription that takes place after Wednesday vs. one that is in effect today).

Thanks.

(Other than that confusion for me, great summary ...)


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## JustAllie

Hey Stephen, a question for clarification -- if I transfer my service commitment to a shiny new Series 3 as you mention here:



> Suppose, for example, you purchase a bundled service package with an 80-hour Series2 DVR and a three year commitment at $16.95 per month. After 17 months you want to switch your service to a new Series3. You can do that. You'll purchase the new Series3 at retail, use Manage My Account to change your TiVo Service Number on your contract, and now your Series3 is activated at $16.95 per month, with 19 months left on your service commitment. Your Series2 unit will no longer have service.


Rather than letting that old TiVo be a doorstop, can I sell the old Series 2 for a few bucks or give it to a friend? If I do that, can the person sign up for service at $12.95 per month (or $6.95 per month if it's their second unit)?


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## cherry ghost

TivoOpsMgr said:


> About the commitment period:
> 
> * If you cancel before the end of the commitment term, you will be charged the remaining balance on your service commitment, up to $200. You get to keep the box.
> * For prepaid bundles of box and service, there is no early termination fee but after the 30-day money-back guarantee period, no refund will be given.
> * Here's what happens after your commitment period is over: If you do nothing, you will continue to be billed each month at the same rate as your original contract. For example, suppose you buy the bundle with $19.95 for a one year commitment. After twelve months, by default, you'll continue to be billed $19.95 per month. Or, if you purchase the bundle with $469 prepaid (which includes 3 years of service), after 36 months you will start being billed $16.95 per month.
> * Once the commitment is up, you can call us and switch to the service-only monthly or prepay pricing option of your choice (see the next section).


I understand all of this except the last part. After the commitment is up, what are the prepay pricing options?


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## Dan203

It says that after the commitment is up they are going to continue to charge people the full $16.95-$19.95/mo unless they call and specifically ask for it to be lowered to the service only rate. 

Dan


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## HDTiVo

Dan203 said:


> That is the only part that seems sort of shady to me. It says that after the commitment is up they are going to continue to charge people the full $16.95-$19.95/mo unless they call and specifically ask for it to be lowered to the service only rate.
> 
> Dan


That almost sounds like an opinion to me. Opinions are not permitted in this thread.


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## wonky67

I hope this is a simply question: If I have a S2 now with Lifetime on it and it breaks. Can I send this in for repair and keep the lifetime on it?

Note: this actually happened a few years back. I paid $80 for out of warranty service and kept the Lifetime on the box. Worked great.


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## TiVoStephen

JustAllie said:


> Rather than letting that old TiVo be a doorstop, can I sell the old Series 2 for a few bucks or give it to a friend? If I do that, can the person sign up for service at $12.95 per month (or $6.95 per month if it's their second unit)?


Hi Allie -- absolutely. You own the unit so you can either sell it or keep it, as you wish, to whoever you wish. To activate the unit, whoever owns it can choose the service-only price of their choice -- so, either $12.95 per month (with a one-year commitment), or $6.95 if they already have a full-price unit on their account), or one of the new prepay service-only options for 1, 2, or 3 years.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## TiVoStephen

cherry ghost said:


> I understand all of this except the last part. After the commitment is up, what are the prepay pricing options?


Sorry about that -- we haven't announced them yet, so that's why it's a bit vague. Basically instead of paying $12.95 per month (with a one year commitment), you can prepay for 1, 2 or 3 years; we have not disclosed the pricing on those prepay service-only options yet. Once they're announced next week, I will edit the original article to be a bit clearer.

(Of course, it might be the MSD price instead of $12.95 if you have another full-price unit on your account.)

EDIT: Clarity and MSD point.


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## TiVoStephen

Dan203 said:


> It says that after the commitment is up they are going to continue to charge people the full $16.95-$19.95/mo unless they call and specifically ask for it to be lowered to the service only rate.


Hi Dan, the reasoning behind that is that we can't move you to $12.95 unless you give us a further one year commitment, and we don't want to do that to you without you telling us that's what you want. Instead, you have to confirm you want $12.95 per month and agree to a new one-year commitment. This is identical to what cell phone companies and other service providers do today.


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## TiVoStephen

wonky67 said:


> I hope this is a simply question: If I have a S2 now with Lifetime on it and it breaks. Can I send this in for repair and keep the lifetime on it?
> 
> Note: this actually happened a few years back. I paid $80 for out of warranty service and kept the Lifetime on the box. Worked great.


Yup! Same as today. I've expanded the relevant section above to make this clear.


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## cherry ghost

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> We haven't announced them yet, so that's why it's a bit vague. Basically instead of paying $12.95 per month (with a one year commitment), you can prepay for 1, 2 or 3 years; we have not disclosed the pricing on those prepay service-only options yet.


Thanks, that explains it.


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## TiVoStephen

HDTiVo said:


> That almost sounds like an opinion to me. Opinions are not permitted in this thread.


Are you expressing the opinion that his post was an opinion? Not allowed!    (Heh, I crack myself up.)

Seriously, though, there's a fine line. My main point was that this thread shouldn't have extended debates about why or why not, since this is an informational thread that's supposed to be concise, and there are other threads where we can all debate the whys and wherefores and how comes.


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## Frankenstien

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Instead, you have to confirm you want $12.95 per month and agree to a new one-year commitment. This is identical to what cell phone companies and other service providers do today.


Okay, say you go with the price for a TiVo box and a three-year service commitment is $16.95 a month, or $469 prepaid.

So, after the 3 year period you own the TiVo box. If you do nothing which of the following, if any, occurs:

1) You are billed at $16.95 a month for service?

2) You are converted to a 3 year service only plan? (I know you haven't announced those prices yet.)

3) You better make sure you call and update your plan at the end of your contract?


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## Jasoco

Just a simple question:

I ordered my TiVo from TiVo.com during that special "Get $150 off if you pay a year in advance" deal. Which means right now, I'm not paying anything monthly until my year is up. Is that going to stay like that? Or is TiVo going to adjust it so my "free year" ends earlier?


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## TiVoStephen

Frankenstien said:


> Okay, say you go with the price for a TiVo box and a three-year service commitment is $16.95 a month, or $469 prepaid.
> 
> So, after the 3 year period you own the TiVo box. If you do nothing which of the following, if any, occurs:
> 
> 1) You are billed at $16.95 a month for service?
> 
> 2) You are converted to a 3 year service only plan? (I know you haven't announced those prices yet.)
> 
> 3) You better make sure you call and update your plan at the end of your contract?


#1 happens, although (assuming you don't mind another service commitment) it may well be in your interest to call TiVo and change to a service-only plan.


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## TiVoStephen

Jasoco said:


> Just a simple question:
> 
> I ordered my TiVo from TiVo.com during that special "Get $150 off if you pay a year in advance" deal. Which means right now, I'm not paying anything monthly until my year is up. Is that going to stay like that? Or is TiVo going to adjust it so my "free year" ends earlier?


Sorry, but I didn't follow -- I don't understand why you'd think your free year would end earlier. You have an existing subscription with us, and its terms remain unchanged. At the end of your free year, you'll be paying $12.95 per month as per the agreement when you ordered.


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## Dan203

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Hi Dan, the reasoning behind that is that we can't move you to $12.95 unless you give us a further one year commitment, and we don't want to do that to you without you telling us that's what you want. Instead, you have to confirm you want $12.95 per month and agree to a new one-year commitment. This is identical to what cell phone companies and other service providers do today.


Actually that makes more sense. I didn't realize that you had to commit to another year to get the $12.95 price. I just thought you would be dumped down to the lower price on a month to month contract type basis. May want to clarify that a little in the original post.

Dan


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## Dan203

On a similar note will a call be required to switch plans after the initial commitment is up? Or will there be some sort of web interface for making the switch?

Dan


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## timckelley

So it sounds like it'll be a close call as to which happens first:

1) the prepay options for service-only plans are announced
2) Lifetime will be discontinued.

I'm currently paying $6.95 per month on my series 1, and am considering upgrading to lifetime, but I suppose the knowledge of what the new prepay options for service-only could affect my decision, so it would be nice to know what they'll be.

Note: I'm assuming that somebody who already has a monthly sub will, once their current contract expires next year, have the option to convert to a prepaid form of service-only.


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## Dan Clarke

At the risk of being a me too thread, thanks very much for the summary. When I posted during the initial thread, I was mad and confused. 

TivoPony, despite being flogged in the forum, was kind enough to explain it. And now this really crystalizes the new plan.

I was really upset for a moment, because I'm dying for a Series 3 and thought I'd have some problems. Now I'm okay. Especially if you do subsidize the box. It's a lot easier to pay $22.95 a month (even) and no substantial upfront cost then it is to pay $999 plus a monthly fee. 

I guess I've seen the light. PM me for my address so you can get that S3 out to me


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## DrStrange

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Hi Dan, the reasoning behind that is that we can't move you to $12.95 unless you give us a further one year commitment, and we don't want to do that to you without you telling us that's what you want. Instead, you have to confirm you want $12.95 per month and agree to a new one-year commitment.


Ok I'm not really fond of that reasoning because presumably Tivo would have already recovered the box cost through the first commitment periods higher fees, so enforcing a second commitment period just to get standard rates seems a bit excessive. But be that as it may, what happens after that second period? Will they remain on the 12.95/mo plan with (finally) no commitment?


----------



## Frankenstien

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> #1 happens, although (assuming you don't mind another service commitment) it may well be in your interest to call TiVo and change to a service-only plan.


Thanks.


----------



## gtrogue

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Hi Dan, the reasoning behind that is that we can't move you to $12.95 unless you give us a further one year commitment, and we don't want to do that to you without you telling us that's what you want. Instead, you have to confirm you want $12.95 per month and agree to a new one-year commitment. This is identical to what cell phone companies and other service providers do today.


So even after 3 years of paying for service and the hardware, Tivo is still going to require a further commitment from an existing customer to continue service?

What a load of shi... crap.

Once the subsidy has been paid on a unit there should be no further time commitment for it, no matter who activates it.


----------



## JoeBarbs

Well done! Thanks Stephen.


----------



## John494900

so anyone who pays monthly wouldn't pay $16.95/mo for 3 years ($610.20) over $19.95/mo for 1 year ($239.40) and 2 years at $12.95/mo ($310.80) = $550.20 right?
obviously prepaid is the way to go, but for us monthly people, one year sounds way better. why have the options to pay more?


----------



## Larry in TN

John494900 said:


> for us monthly people, one year sounds way better. why have the options to pay more?


Because about 80% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and are only concerned with getting through the month (or week). A lower monthly payment will appeal to these folks. I'd bet that the $16.95/mo for 3yrs plan will be the most popular.


----------



## ljk

I'm still confused about the MSD. I upgraded my TiVO to lifetime a few weeks ago because my dad offered to send me a second TiVO (from his vacation house), and I only wanted to pay one monthly fee. This second TiVO might not arrive (and thus get switched to my account) until after the 15th. Will I still qualify for 6.95 pricing on the second box? I read all the threads that I could find, but I'm still not sure. Thanks!
Lea


----------



## Dan203

Yes you will qualify for the MSD. The only restriction is yoou will have to comit to a 1 year term. However that would have applied regardless of the MSD.

Dan


----------



## cwerdna

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> [*]Product Lifetime will no longer be offered for new subscriptions, starting sometime shortly after Wednesday 3/15/06.


A coworker told me that he got screwed and the removal of lifetime happened over the weekend (must've happened very late Sunday night or early Monday morning). I can see that on http://www.tivo.com/3.0.asp, lifetime is no longer even listed. Can you confirm? I have no unactivated TSN to enter here to try to see if lifetime is in fact unavailable.

Since your posts and all the others have stated lifetime would go away on/after 3/15/06, if there's an issue w/getting lifetime before 3/15/06, will you be wililng to accomodate them?


----------



## timckelley

cwerdna said:


> A coworker told me that he got screwed and the removal of lifetime happened over the weekend (must've happened very late Sunday night or early Monday morning). I can see that on http://www.tivo.com/3.0.asp, lifetime is no longer even listed. Can you confirm? I have no unactivated TSN to enter here to try to see if lifetime is in fact unavailable.
> 
> Since your posts and all the others have stated lifetime would go away on/after 3/15/06, if there's an issue w/getting lifetime before 3/15/06, will you be wililng to accomodate them?


I'm looking now, and lifetime is still available. (Whew!)


----------



## timckelley

When upgrading, the site tells you this:



> Remember, monthly billing fees are not prorated and/or refunded. If you would like to change your billing option to product lifetime within your 30 day billing cycle, you will not be refunded the unused portion of your monthly TiVo service fee. You may prefer to transfer toward the end of your billing cycle.


What difference does doing it in the middle of the cyle make? No matter when you do it, this is the final payment on your box.


----------



## nuncles

jfh3 said:


> "Product Lifetime will no longer be offered for new subscriptions, starting sometime shortly after Wednesday 3/15/06."
> 
> Clarification please - does the above mean that if I have a current subscription at $12.95/month with x months left to go that a Product Lifetime sub can still be purchased after Wednesday up until x months have passed? (e.g. are you making a difference between a subscription that takes place after Wednesday vs. one that is in effect today).
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> (Other than that confusion for me, great summary ...)


*Was this question ever addressed? * I apologize if I missed it. I am in the same situation. Here is the information I got, but I was hoping someone would clarify this.

I was on the phone with TIVO Sunday afternoon because my account showed that I owed $12.95 even though I used the gift subscriptions when activating (I activated the previous day). Because of this, It would not allow me to upgrade to the lifetime. The TIVO representative assured me that this was just how their billing system was setup and that it would clear itself in a day or two. After the account was clear I would still have the same 30 day opportunity to upgrade to lifetime.

Could I get clarification on if the TIVO rep was correct? This somewhat contradicts your previous post. Please let me know if I was misled by the TIVO rep or if he was not informed of the new policy.

Thanks


----------



## timckelley

I remember a few days ago, somebody saying the TiVo reps weren't yet trained on the new abolishment of lifetime issue, so if I were you, I'd definitely clear this up/confirm the situation.


----------



## cwerdna

timckelley said:


> I'm looking now, and lifetime is still available. (Whew!)


Good news. The coworker was able to get lifetime and it seems the page got reverted to one w/the correct choices. Thanks!


----------



## TiVoStephen

The original post was edited to add details about the new service-only prepay options.


----------



## nuncles

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> The original post was edited to add details about the new service-only prepay options.


Sorry guy, that really doesn't clarify everything? Is the quote below the change you were referring too? 


> For Product Lifetime going away: Once it goes away sometime shortly after Wednesday 3/15, you will not be able to get it if you don't have it already. New customers cannot purchase it. Existing customers cannot purchase it. Existing customers cannot convert their existing monthly contracts into Product Lifetime. It is no longer available as an option.
> *or*
> Service-only prepay options: We also announced that there are going to be service-only prepay options (available once Product Lifetime goes away, later this week).


If this is in fact the case then that is atrocious service bording on false advertising. Is everyone expected to read the forums BEFORE purchasing an item? That is ridiculous. When purchasing, I was under the assumption that I had this option and was even told so by a TIVO representative. To top it all off, the billing has still yet to clear for the gift subscription which will hinder me from the lifetime option before it expires.
If I am misunderstanding then I will retract, but this is not a good way to start off servicing a customer.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Hi nuncles, we have just now posted some additional clarifications that should match what you were told by the TiVo representative.

Sorry for any confusion.

Best regards,
Stephen


----------



## nuncles

Crystal Clear. That is exactly the clarification I was looking for. Thanks Stephen.

I misunderstood and I guess I jumped the gun. I am glad they decided to honor this and retract what I said earlier.

Also, thanks for specifying that you had to *call* TIVO for lifetime conversion.


----------



## jfh3

nuncles said:


> *Was this question ever addressed? *


Actually, yes. The revised original post answers it quite well.

If you are paying $12.95 per month now, you can upgrade to lifetime between now and 4/15. After that, no can do.


----------



## megazone

Two things:

Typo:
* For one-year of service, you can prepay $155.
* For two years of service, you prepay $299.
* For three years of service, you can prepare $399.

s/prepare/prepay/

Clarification if you could:


> Due to the terms of our relationship with Humax, however, new Humax DVD Recorder products not previously activated for service (that is, they have no activation history) will continue to be eligible for Product Lifetime Service activation. They are not affected by the 3/15/06 purchase cutoff or the 4/15/06 Product Lifetime activation cutoff. Again, you must call TiVo Customer Support in order to activate Product Lifetime Service. Humax DVD Recorder products which have already been activated for service have until 4/15/06 to upgrade to Product Lifetime Service. After 4/15/06, Humax DVD Recorder products with an activation history will no longer have Product Lifetime Service as an activation option.


Is this only the Humax DVD units (DRT400/800/2000), and not the non-DVD Humax boxes (T800/2500)? How about the Toshiba and Pioneer DVD units? There are still new ones floating around out there, do they have the same grace as Humax? And, if so, is activation TiVo Plus, or just using TiVo Basic?

Thanks.


----------



## TiVoPony

megazone said:


> Clarification if you could:
> 
> Is this only the Humax DVD units (DRT400/800/2000), and not the non-DVD Humax boxes (T800/2500)? How about the Toshiba and Pioneer DVD units? There are still new ones floating around out there, do they have the same grace as Humax? And, if so, is activation TiVo Plus, or just using TiVo Basic?
> 
> Thanks.


The wording is quite specific, it is only for Humax DVD Recorder products.

Cheers,
Pony


----------



## coletown

Stephen, you've stated plainly that MSD pricing will remain $6.95/mo for qualified units. However, paragraph 6 of the MSDSA reads: "TiVo reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to increase or decrease the amount of the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT or discontinue the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT at any time."

Is there consensus at the top to keep MSD pricing fixed for many, many months to come? Hope so. But with all going on at TiVo these days, might it be smarter to bite the $299 bullet and upgrade to lifetime before that option vaporizes on Thursday?

Thanks for your superb summary and updates in this thread.


----------



## Jasoco

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> *Section 1: What's NOT changing*
> 
> For existing subscribers: If youre perfectly happy with the TiVo pricing you have and had no plans to purchase and activate a new TiVo unit, then youre completely unaffected.
> 
> 
> Your monthly stays at $12.95 (or $6.95 if you have the Mult Service Discount).
> Any existing Product Lifetime contracts are still honored.
> Existing Multi Service Discount rules are unchanged.
> Existing rules about ownership transfers and service transfers are unchanged.
> Existing gift cards are still valid.


So this means that as long as I have the box I have now, my pricing won't change, correct?


----------



## cheerdude

Jasoco said:


> So this means that as long as I have the box I have now, my pricing won't change, correct?


Not quite - Your pricing won't change because of this new pricing announcement.

It does not mean that TiVo will not raise either the $12.95 or $6.95 price in the future.


----------



## kettledrum

I can't believe I didn't hear about this before now. And now I'm a day too late for lifetime. sheesh.


----------



## timckelley

kettledrum said:


> I can't believe I didn't hear about this before now. And now I'm a day too late for lifetime. sheesh.


Isn't the new deadline tonight at 8PM or something? You still have time if you act quickly.


----------



## TiVoStephen

The deadline tonight at 8pm Pacific is if you want to activate online.

If you have an existing unit and call for an exception, you can get Product Lifetime through April 15, 2006.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo

So, I've had my two series one Tivo's for a long time but I don't know how long. Is there a way to find out when I activated the lifetime on them?


----------



## timckelley

IJustLikeTivo said:


> So, I've had my two series one Tivo's for a long time but I don't know how long. Is there a way to find out when I activated the lifetime on them?


Log on to 'manage my account' and view billing history.

Edit:

http://www.tivo.com/

then click 'I have TiVo'
click 'Manage my account'
click 'view billing history'


----------



## IJustLikeTivo

timckelley said:


> Log on to 'manage my account' and view billing history.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/
> 
> then click 'I have TiVo'
> click 'Manage my account'
> click 'view billing history'


Thanks and Rats. I activated both in 2000 but one in July and one in Dec so I can't use the grandfather clause to swap in a Series 3 when they come out. So it goes.


----------



## Blurayfan

Minor bug: Link has extra character at the end
Q. What happens if my TiVo box breaks during my service commitment?

A. All TiVo boxes are subject to the TiVo DVR Limited Warranty. Please see full TiVo DVR Limited Warranty for details [http://www.tivo.com/2.6.1.3.asp]. During the term of your commitment, TiVo will extend the length of the parts warranty for the length of your term for TiVo-branded DVRs. If your box breaks, TiVo will replace it for a reasonable fee.


----------



## gimgol

"If you purchased your non-bundled TiVo DVR prior to 3/16/06, you'll have until 4/15/06 to call and activate Product Lifetime service on the box."

I would like to point out that this option is difficult to take advantage of through Customer Service. 

I just got off the phone with Tivo Customer Support and I was told that Product Lifetime Service is not an option on non-bundled Tivos purchased prior to 03/16/06. I referenced this thread, the rep indicated that he had read it -- still no change. While the rep agreed that I had none of the other issues in the bullet point that would keep me from being eligible he still refused to upgrade my units referencing "an email" that told him not to upgrade existing units.

If this is indeed an option, Customer Service needs to be made aware of it. If this is not an option, or there are other conditions, the original post needs to be edited to reflect them.


----------



## Alpinemaps

^ I had a similar issue this afternoon, when I called in.

I first spoke to an initial agent, who gave me a case number and elevated me. The elevated agent went online to this thread, and looked it up. He even quoted me the below statement:



TiVoOpsMgr said:


> *Section 2: Product Lifetime no longer an option*
> 
> 
> If you purchased your non-bundled TiVo DVR prior to 3/16/06, you'll have until 4/15/06 to call and activate Product Lifetime service on the box. This is provided there is no conflict with any other terms of your purchase (such as the requirement to activate service by 3/31 for the current 80 hour offer on tivo.com). Activating Product Lifetime Service is not available online; you must call TiVo Customer Support (1-877-367-8486) in order to activate Product Lifetime service. Boxes purchased on or after 3/16/06 will not be eligible to activate Product Lifetime service. After 4/15/06, this option is no longer available.


He said that boxes are not eligible for Product Lifetime. My box was purchased a year ago, and is on monthly. He said it was only recently purchased boxes, within the last 30 days, that were eligible. I pointed out to him that it doesn't say that in that quote. He said, sorry, but that he couldn't activate lifetime.

He did elevate it again, and said it would be about a week before I'd hear anything back because of case load of the next highest rep. He took my payment info, and told me that I was welcome to call back and check up on the status at any time.

I was very nice to him, and he was very nice to me. So, despite the disappointment that this isn't as easy as it should be, even when they're reading this sticky, and despite my own disappointment in myself for not taking care of this before Product Lifetime went away, I want to stress that the reps I talked to were nice and professional, and attempted to be helpful.


----------



## Adam1115

I'm a little confused.

If you buy a bundled package, 

1 Year at $19.95=$239.40, then two years at $12.95=310.80, for a 3 year total of $550.20.

3 years at 16.95=610.20..

Why on earth would I pay 60 more to be committed for 3 years? Seems like it should be cheaper in the long run if you're willing to commit to 3 years...


----------



## PeteEMT

Even tho your way is cheaper, there's a greater upfront cost in that first year. For some, I guess the $3 could be a make it or break it point.

In that sense, it's kinda like loan terms, shorter is usually cheaper in the interest owed, but not always financially viable for the loanee.


----------



## coletown

Adam1115 said:


> I'm a little confused.
> 
> If you buy a bundled package,
> 
> 1 Year at $19.95=$239.40, then two years at $12.95=310.80, for a 3 year total of $550.20.
> 
> 3 years at 16.95=610.20..
> 
> Why on earth would I pay 60 more to be committed for 3 years? Seems like it should be cheaper in the long run if you're willing to commit to 3 years...


A Three Year original commitment extends the Limited Warranty parts coverage on the product from 90 days to a full three years. A One Year + Two Year Service-Only approach does not extend the warranty beyond the first year. There is some value to the extended warranty. And the $60 cash-over-time difference is diminished when considering Present Value of the future revenue streams.

I think the bulk of posts regarding a 30-day grace period for Lifetime registration is clear that such period relates to recently purchased machines only (i.e. those never subscribed to TiVo service) and does not include existing machines on prepaid or monthly service.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Folks, apologies if any of you have difficulty getting Product Lifetime with customer support. We've made sure to train them on the policy because there was some confusion earlier. If you had difficulty before, please try again.

Best regards,
Stephen


----------



## kdeanda

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Folks, apologies if any of you have difficulty getting Product Lifetime with customer support. We've made sure to train them on the policy because there was some confusion earlier. If you had difficulty before, please try again.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stephen


Still no luck here, as of 14:00 PST. The first level CSR immediately and politely forwarded me to the next level, where an irritable rep informed me that she was aware of this post, but that lifetime was discontinued and not going to be made available.


----------



## timckelley

Wow. Something doesn't smell right. Wow.

I'm not 100% convinced whether this extension ethically needs to be granted or not, but I would think CSR ought to be on the same page as each other. Especially this many days into this thing.


----------



## MEngland

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Is there any way to get Product Lifetime right now? Yes. There are a few ways to get Product Lifetime even now:
> 
> If you already possess a Product Lifetime gift certificate or gift card, you may call Customer Support to activate Product Lifetime using your gift certificate or gift card (but note that these are no longer for sale and have not been offered for several months, so if you don't own already, you won't be able to get one).


TiVoOpsMgr,

When do you need to "already possess" the gift card? Your post with on 3/9. Just yesterday (3/18), I found and purchased (activated) a lifetime card at Best Buy (it was in the back of the 3-month stack). Is this card valid for a LIfetime sub? It seems like it should be since it activated at the register and they happily took my $300


----------



## TiVoStephen

Hi MEngland, yes, it's valid.

Technically, BestBuy should not be selling them. They were instructed not to.


----------



## 1283

kdeanda said:


> Still no luck here, as of 14:00 PST. The first level CSR immediately and politely forwarded me to the next level, where an irritable rep informed me that she was aware of this post, but that lifetime was discontinued and not going to be made available.


I activated online with the 1-year certificate first and then called TiVo. I was on the phone roughly from 13:20-14:20 PST. Reaching the first level CSR was less than 5 minutes, but I was on hold for the supervisor for about 40 minutes!!! Fortunately a case was generated for the TiVo accounting department, but it sounded like she was not sure about the requirement and had to get approval from yet another person first. The call took much longer than I expected.


----------



## nrnble

John494900 said:


> so anyone who pays monthly wouldn't pay $16.95/mo for 3 years ($610.20) over $19.95/mo for 1 year ($239.40) and 2 years at $12.95/mo ($310.80) = $550.20 right?
> obviously prepaid is the way to go, but for us monthly people, one year sounds way better. why have the options to pay more?


I did the exactly the same calculation. 1 year is the cheapest option over 3 years (no prepay). The only reason I can think that a person would select the 3 or 2 year month-to-month option is because they pay less per month (month-to-month). A lot of people do this when leasing a car, all they think about is how much they pay per month. They don't care how much it costs them in the long run. They might pay thousands more for the car, but pay almost nothing upfront (they don't have it, and are already over extended).

Of course going with the 3 year prepay option is the best right? $469.00. Basically the same as service-only month to month pricing if you pay upfront.


----------



## PeteEMT

timckelley said:


> Wow. Something doesn't smell right. Wow.
> 
> I'm not 100% convinced whether this extension ethically needs to be granted or not, but I would think CSR ought to be on the same page as each other. Especially this many days into this thing.


 I'd say now that it's been ststed, ethically they need to keep their word.


----------



## dlgardne

Do I understand correctly If I buy a new HUMAX DRT 800 I can still by lifetime for it?

Thanks


----------



## dswallow

dlgardne said:


> Do I understand correctly If I buy a new HUMAX DRT 800 I can still by lifetime for it?
> 
> Thanks


Yes; The FAQ on the subject is rather clear...



> Due to the terms of our relationship with Humax, however, new Humax DVD Recorder products (DRT400/800/2000) not previously activated for service (that is, they have no activation history) will continue to be eligible for Product Lifetime service activation. They are not affected by the 3/16/06 purchase cutoff or the 4/15/06 Product Lifetime activation cutoff. Again, you must call TiVo Customer Support in order to activate Product Lifetime service. Humax DVD Recorder products which have already been activated for service have until 4/15/06 to upgrade to Product Lifetime service. After 4/15/06, Humax DVD Recorder products with an activation history will no longer have Product Lifetime service as an activation option.


The main thing to bear in mind is after 4/15/2006 you can only get lifetime service on the unit if the unit has not previously been activated.


----------



## TiVoPony

A few people here have reported that when they called to upgrade to Product Lifetime Service they were told that wasn't possible anymore. We appreciate the feedback and apologize if some of our agents are providing inaccurate information. 

We know that there have been retail advertisements which refer to product lifetime, and there have been requests here for a longer opportunity to purchase lifetime before it's discontinued. As a result, we have decided to offer product lifetime as a subscription option through 4/15/06, even for those that have purchased since 3/15 (you do have to call to activate lifetime service though, and lifetime is not applicable for systems purchased via a bundle plan). 

Our customer service team is being updated today, so please wait until later today or tomorrow and call back once the message has been delivered to all the agents.

Cheers,
Pony


----------



## kdeanda

TiVoPony said:


> We know that there have been retail advertisements which refer to product lifetime, and there have been requests here for a longer opportunity to purchase lifetime before it's discontinued. As a result, we have decided to offer product lifetime as a subscription option through 4/15/06, even for those that have purchased since 3/15 (you do have to call to activate lifetime service though, and lifetime is not applicable for systems purchased via a bundle plan).


Well, this is cheerful news! 
A clarifying question though, what conditions exactly qualify one for the 4/15 Lifetime deadline? Any non-bundled unit, or just those with no activation history (new and NOS)?


----------



## TiVoPony

kdeanda said:


> Well, this is cheerful news!
> A clarifying question though, what conditions exactly qualify one for the 4/15 Lifetime deadline? Any non-bundled unit, or just those with no activation history (new and NOS)?


Any non-bundled unit until 4/15.

After 4/15 only Humax DVD Recorder products with no activation history can still be activated with Product Lifetime Service. It won't be an option for any other products.

Pony


----------



## jfh3

TiVoPony said:


> Any non-bundled unit until 4/15.
> 
> After 4/15 only Humax DVD Recorder products with no activation history can still be activated with Product Lifetime Service. It won't be an option for any other products.
> 
> Pony


Just out of curiosity, how are you going to prevent the same problems we've seen over the last week come 4/15?


----------



## MEngland

jfh3 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how are you going to prevent the same problems we've seen over the last week come 4/15?


The answer, of course, is training. But to me, this exercise seems easier. The problem with the current plan was in the exceptions. You could activate until 4/15 *IF* you purchased by 3/16.

The new strategy is simple. If you own a non-bundle TiVo, you can activate Lifetime until 4/15. After that date, you cannot. Seems simple, no need to verify purchase date, etc.


----------



## d4jaj1

Okay, I am completely lost with respect to MSD. I read this entire thread, as well as, the Buy Tivo on the offical site. Perhaps I'm just dumb. 

Here's my scenario. I already have 2 Tivo units - Humax Recorder with Lifetime and 40hr Series 2 on MSD. I would like to purchase an additional Tivo unit (40 or 80 - doesn't matter) and be billed $6.95 for this unit. 

Nowhere on Tivo's site does it allow me the option of simply buying the unit and applying the MSD - note, the terms and conditions of the Basic and Premium packages state MSD isn't eligible. Under this pricing scheme, am I supposed to prepay for a year of service - at full price - then call Tivo to reduce the fee to 6.95 after a year????? Furthermore, suppose a new customer purchased 2 boxes - I don't see anything in the order flow indicating where the MSD is applied. 

To simplify my question, how do I go about purchasing a NEW Tivo box and have that unit's monthly cost billed a $6.95 from Day 1??? 

SPEAKING OUT LOUD 
According to the Tivo site, I can pre-pay 1yr for a 80hr unit @ $224. MSD for 1yr is $83.40, minus the $224 equals $140.60, which is close to the pre-pricing change 80hr unit (after rebate) - making it basically the same for existing MSD customers as before the change. Does this logic sound right? Only gap here is - is the 40hr unit not being sold anymore?


----------



## MEngland

d4jaj1 said:


> I would like to purchase an additional Tivo unit (40 or 80 - doesn't matter) and be billed $6.95 for this unit.


TiVo.com only sells Bundled units now - the box and Service in a package.

You need a "service only" contract to get MSD. This is simple. Go to your local Best Buy, CompUSA, or the like, and buy a TiVo. I think both CompUSA and Best Buy were selling the 40 Hour boxes for $170 with a $150 rebate. Your net cost for the box is $20.

These "unbundled" units can use a Service Only contract - Including the $6.95 price for a MSD subscription. You may need to commit to a 12-month contract, but you'll get the $6.95 price. Net cost for the first year: $20 + 12x$6.95 = $103.40 (or thereabouts)


----------



## juststained

Ok, lets see if we have this straight now after reading this entire post:

Anything bought from Tivo.com after 3/15 is now not eligible for Lifetime because they are all bundled with service, correct?

Any box bought at retail WITHOUT service is eligible for Lifetime UNTIL 4/15 correct?

After 4/15 NO BOX will be eligible for lifetime EXCEPT Humax DVD recorder models that have never been previously activated?? 

Is this your final Answer??


----------



## MEngland

juststained said:


> Ok, lets see if we have this straight now after reading this entire post:
> 
> Anything bought from Tivo.com after 3/15 is now not eligible for Lifetime because they are all bundled with service, correct?


This is effectively true. I'm sure someone will point out that they got TiVo to ship a service-only unit after that date, this this would be an unusualy exception. Let's call your statement true.



> Any box bought at retail WITHOUT service is eligible for Lifetime UNTIL 4/15 correct?


Definitely true.



> After 4/15 NO BOX will be eligible for lifetime EXCEPT Humax DVD recorder models that have never been previously activated??


Generally True, with three exceptions
1) Grandfathered series 1 Lifetime owners can transfer the lifetime (once) to a later box.
2) Existing Lifetime gift cards and gift certificates are still valid and can be used to upgrade any unit to Lifetime (assuming the unit does not have other contract restrictions)
3) TiVo is awarding a S3 with lifetme as part of a contest.

These exceptions are well discussed elsewhere.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Well done, MEngland, exactly right.

By the way, the current "Web specials" offer (http://www.tivo.com/2.1.1.0.ws.asp) -- currently a 40-hour factory renewed unit with 1 year prepaid for $155.40 -- is NOT eligible for Product Lifetime (either before or after 4/15) since it is considered a bundled offer.


----------



## timckelley

How about a box bought after 3/15? There seems to be disagreement on this.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Hi Tim,

All agents should now be trained on the new policy. Here is the relevant portion of the Knowledge Base article:



> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> KB code 39-10-08 (for current monthly customers who want to switch to Product Lifetime):
> 
> Product Lifetime Service is no longer available after March 17, 2006. We will allow current monthly subscribers to change their Payment Plan to Product Lifetime Service until April 15, 2006.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> KB code 39-10-05 (for new customers):
> 
> Product Lifetime Service is no longer available beginning March 17, 2006. [...]
> 
> Customers wanting to purchase Product Lifetime Service can do so before April 15, 2006. Use the procedure below to activate Product Lifetime Service.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As you can see, there's no requirement the box be brought before or after 3/15.

The only time Product Lifetime cannot be purchased currently is for bundled units purchased from tivo.com. (But you cannot get Product Lifetime online -- you have to call Customer Support.)

Act fast, because after 4/15 you'll need a gift subscription or a Humax DVD-Recorder to get Product Lifetime.

If you have any trouble, please have the agent reference these articles, or ask to speak to a supervisor.

Best regards,
Stephen


----------



## HDTiVo

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> currently a 40-hour factory renewed unit with 1 year prepaid for $155.40 -- is NOT eligible for Product Lifetime (either before or after 4/15) since it is considered a bundled offer.


Dude:

How 'bout lettin' folks get a $155.40 refurb or a $224 new (1yr) and ADD $299 for Lifetime on top? Think on it a bit.


----------



## sealrock

IJustLikeTivo said:


> Thanks and Rats. I activated both in 2000 but one in July and one in Dec so I can't use the grandfather clause to swap in a Series 3 when they come out. So it goes.


Look for your receipts! Last week I called TIVO for the activation date of my lifetime sub and was told it was Oct 2000. I told them I remember purchasing the unit and sub at the store in '99 but did not have access to my record - I was at work when I called. After checking with her supervisor the agent told me her supervisor confirmed the October date is all they had on their system but that since I had been a TIVO subscriber for so long (still thinking Oct 2000) he had authorized a one time transfer and that she would note it on my file (case number was provided). When I got home I found my receipt from August 1999 so Iamb covered anyway. 
Lesson: 1) Tivo records are not necessarily correct. 2) If you call and insist Tivo may authorize a deviation form their January 2000 date - whether they honor is is a different question.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Sealrock, I don't see how it is possible for our records to not be accurate for Product Lifetime purchase. I have never seen an inaccurate date after looking at thousands of cases over the last seven years.

I would bet money that what happened in your case is that you purchased the unit and monthly service in 1999, and then switched to Product Lifetime in October of 2000 (after the grandfather date).


----------



## TiVoStephen

HDTiVo said:


> Dude:
> 
> How 'bout lettin' folks get a $155.40 refurb or a $224 new (1yr) and ADD $299 for Lifetime on top? Think on it a bit.


I'll propose that to the marketing team, but I don't think this is likely to happen, sorry.


----------



## 1283

HDTiVo said:


> How 'bout lettin' folks get a $155.40 refurb or a $224 new (1yr) and ADD $299 for Lifetime on top? Think on it a bit.


That's the same as selling lifetime for $454.40. Not going to happen.


----------



## GadgetGav

Hmmm...
Who was it around here who wondered how much money Tivo was suddenly getting from all the people rushing to switch to lifetime and now here they are extending that chance for people for just 30 more days...
Maybe if we're lucky, they'll bring in so much money over the next couple of weeks that they won't need to scrap the old price structure, can put more people onto finishing the S3 and can finally hire a couple of programmers to get TTG on OS X out of the door..!


----------



## sealrock

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Sealrock, I don't see how it is possible for our records to not be accurate for Product Lifetime purchase. I have never seen an inaccurate date after looking at thousands of cases over the last seven years.
> 
> I would bet money that what happened in your case is that you purchased the unit and monthly service in 1999, and then switched to Product Lifetime in October of 2000 (after the grandfather date).


TiVoOpsMgr,
I rechecked my receipt and cc statement. You were correct.  
I'm going to have to change my username after only two posts!


----------



## ScubaCat3

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Hi MEngland, yes, it's valid.
> 
> Technically, BestBuy should not be selling them. They were instructed not to.


Heh - I just grabbed the last 4 yesterday from my local best buy store. Found them by digging through the stack they had up by the register. I guess they missed those when pulling them off the shelves. Now all I need is a Series 3!


----------



## timckelley

ScubaCat3 said:


> Heh - I just grabbed the last 4 yesterday from my local best buy store. Found them by digging through the stack they had up by the register. I guess they missed those when pulling them off the shelves. Now all I need is a Series 3!


Wow. Nicely done.


----------



## Rottluver

ScubaCat3 said:


> Heh - I just grabbed the last 4 yesterday from my local best buy store. Found them by digging through the stack they had up by the register. I guess they missed those when pulling them off the shelves. Now all I need is a Series 3!


Hmm, I wonder if those would work for DTV Tivos too........


----------



## ScubaCat3

Nope - that's the only specific exclusion printed on the back. That's because DirecTV Tivo's are handled exclusively by DirecTV, not by Tivo.


----------



## kdeanda

TiVoPony said:


> Any non-bundled unit until 4/15.


A few days later, but confirming this is the case; just got my antique SVR-2000 upgraded to Lifetime. :up: :up:
There remained a little confusion on the part of the 1st level CSR I spoke to, he still thought only pre-3/17 retail purchased new systems were eligible, but would escalate it and that I should expect a supervisor to call me within a week. 
About an hour later I was called back to confirm the change.... and was I _really_ sure I wanted to do this for such an old unit.  Yes, I was sure, and he said he would forward the request to accounting. 
That was Wednsday early evening... today I noticed the account status on the system had changed to Lifetime. Yay!


----------



## Doit2it

jfh3 said:


> Actually, yes. The revised original post answers it quite well.
> 
> If you are paying $12.95 per month now, you can upgrade to lifetime between now and 4/15. After that, no can do.


YES! I called today before I even saw this post. The Tivo rep said it was possible to upgrade to lifetime before 4/15/06. He also confirmed that my monthly rate would remain $12.95 after my 1st year if I didn't upgrade. But best of all, I am under a 12 month gift card which only 3 months have been used. The rep said, and confirmed with someone else there, that if I upgraded to a lifetime plan before 4/16/06 that I could use the balance of my 12 month gift supscription (currently $116.55) toward the purchase of my $299 lifetime subscription. Now I need to find $182.45 fast!


----------



## Bytez

what happens to the lifetime subscription if the tivo associated with the subscription, breaks? Could I transfer the subscription to another tivo box?


----------



## Jasoco

No.


----------



## timckelley

I thinking that maybe a side effect of the cutting off of lifetime is that over time, as a larger and larger percentage of people are on monthly instead of lifetime, there will be less incentive to repair broken TiVos, and more people will just replace them with a new one.


----------



## Rottluver

ScubaCat3 said:


> Nope - that's the only specific exclusion printed on the back. That's because DirecTV Tivo's are handled exclusively by DirecTV, not by Tivo.


That figures but it's ok, I have LT on all 3 of mine already.


----------



## Narf54321

So, there I was coming back from a school field trip with my kid and we happened to stop in at a Target store. Sitting on the shelf was a familiar orange Tivo box, and I happened to read the box print:

"The TiVo service is easy to activate and is available for a low monthly fee or a one-time product lifetime subscription. [yada yada]"

So, this leads me to thinking since it hasn't been sold nor recalled from the shelf -- Anyone buying this TiVo unit based upon the box instructions would certainly expect to be able to purchase lifetime service.

I think TiVo had better start printing up a bunch of new boxes and recalling store units before the (new) Lifetime cutoff deadline.


----------



## timckelley

If somebody bought the box and couldn't lifetime it, I'd think they wouldn't have much trouble getting a 100% refund.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Narf, for many many months now our cartons have not included that Product Lifetime language. Older boxes do mention it but not by price. While small numbers of those old cartons are available at retail, they're getting hard to find. We will still honor Product Lifetime if you call through April 15.

Best regards,
Stephen


----------



## jlb

Hey, the Win TiVo page still advertises the prize as a Series 2 with Lifetime. I'll keep entering. What the heck, right?

Wonder if it will convert to S3 when they are ready........

http://www.tivo.com/0.1.asp


----------



## timckelley

jlb said:


> Hey, the Win TiVo page still advertises the prize as a Series 2 with Lifetime. I'll keep entering. What the heck, right?
> 
> Wonder if it will convert to S3 when they are ready........
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/0.1.asp


Thanks, I just entered it too. It'd be nice to win another lifetime sub + box. Hopefully they live up to their promise.


----------



## Dan203

jlb said:


> Wonder if it will convert to S3 when they are ready.


Maybe, but even if it doesn't it'll probably still switch to one of those new dual tuner S2 units which still sound pretty cool.

Dan


----------



## TiVoStephen

jlb said:


> Hey, the Win TiVo page still advertises the prize as a Series 2 with Lifetime. I'll keep entering. What the heck, right?
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/0.1.asp


This is correct. We began that promotion before the Product Lifetime option was removed, and we will not change that promotion for the time being. We will of course honor the Product Lifetime prize for the winner here.

After April 15, this will be one of a very few methods of getting Product Lifetime.

Best regards,
Stephen


----------



## irecords

Hi folks!

I love my tivo so much. I must admit some disappointment in tivo's new pricing plans and strategy's. It seems like a last ditch effort to avoid going bankrupt, and not beneficial to the customers, who have brought them to this point.

They clearly have the best service, the best hardware, and are extremly innovative, which alone should count for enough. I knew when i saw the new pricing that the fear, uncertainty and doubt that others were spreading about tivo is true, that theyr'e business model is not strong enough to keep them in business for the foreseeable future, so they must force people into commitments in order to stay in business  

I certainly won't buy another tivo when mines breaks, because I'm not going to have to pay monthly fees to use something, that should be able to get a lifetime subscription too. I most likely will consider a windows media pc or a new apple invention, when on the market  But, i will certainly miss my tivo.


----------



## aaronwt

It won't be as good as the TiVo software.


----------



## MikeMar

Just think of it like cable or your cell phone or internet, you have to pay a monthly service for these don't you. I don't see any lifetime cell, internet, or cable plans?


----------



## krbagman

I purchased a Series 2 80 hour Tivo from Best Buy in early late January of this year (still waiting for the $150 rebate). I am paying $12.95 for monthly service. Should I jump on the lifetime service for $299 (not sure of price) before it ends April 15th? Do I even have any options at this point?

You guys who understand all this can you help? I have Dish Network and don't plan on upgrading to the new Tivo when it comes out. I am very happy with the Series 2 system as it is and will continue to use it as long as my system is usable, replacing a hard-drive as needed.

Any advice??

Ken


----------



## timckelley

krbagman said:


> Any advice??
> 
> Ken


I could swear I've seen this post on two other threads.


----------



## ChuckyBox

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> You have until 4/15/06 to call and activate Product Lifetime service on any DVR except DVRs purchased via one of the new bundled pricing options (see below). [ ... ]


"[A]ny DVR"? So if I get a Moxi box from Charter, you guys will provide lifetime service for it? Cool. 

Maybe you want to rephrase that just slightly.


----------



## timckelley

ChuckyBox said:


> "[A]ny DVR"? So if I get a Moxi box from Charter, you guys will provide lifetime service for it? Cool.
> 
> Maybe you want to rephrase that just slightly.


No, they stand by that phrasing.


----------



## nanchan107

Will the new pricing affect the Pioneer DVR-810H-S which comes with Lifetime Basic service. I have seen tons of this at store and they have not yet been recalled.

Thanks in advance for the reply.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Basic service is not affected. (That's not really Product Lifetime, that's just a feature built in to the box.)


----------



## irecords

MikeMar said:


> Just think of it like cable or your cell phone or internet, you have to pay a monthly service for these don't you. I don't see any lifetime cell, internet, or cable plans?


Why should we have to pay for another monthly service? :down: Windows Media Pcs, and eventually apple and too many companies are offering free services, so Tivo will really have to raise the bar on featues in order to compete or be relevant in the next two years.

I hope they have a good business plan in place, because they will need it, to compete against these goliaths, who clearly don't care about innovation as much as tivo does.

Now don't get me wrong I hate uncle bill, and certainly don't want his crummy pc running in my living room :down: What other option is tivo giving its loyal customers and customers who love their service, it seems like no choices at all.

Plus if you terminate your contract early you have to pay fees, that sounds more like a cell phone company then a service provider.

*Some Good Suggestions for tivo:*
Tivo Lite - $5 a month /Basic Service month-to month contract like Cingular with no disconnection fees.

Tivo Enhanced - $10 a month /more features such as tivo to go, home media option, and some souped up features to make it attractive. One year commitment minimum, and no early termination is allowed.

Tivo Extreme - $13 a month (stop the 12.95 crap, like were all dumb and dont know its 13 dollars). All the above features plus ability to transfer the service to another dvr, and license to use on two tivos. One year commitment paid upfront, no early termination is allowed.

Geez - I should be working in the tivo pr department. lol

Let me know what you all think about my suggestions


----------



## MEngland

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> This is NOT a discussion thread. If you have comments or opinions or general questions, please post in one of the other threads.


It would probably be good to keep this thread focused on clarifications to the published plans, rather than turning it into another series of "TiVo shoulda..." posts.


----------



## ChuckyBox

irecords said:


> Let me know what you all think about my suggestions


I think you should stop making them.


----------



## bigjohn

I guess I've lost my multiple unit discount. Nothing has changed in my Tivo world, still have 2 SVR2000's with lifetime subs (they haven't checked in in awhile, could that be the problem?), still have two RS-TX20's with monthly subs.



Billed Apr 10, 2006 TiVo Monthly Service $12.95 $0.00 $12.95
Settled Apr 10, 2006 Charged to: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX $12.95 $0.00 ($12.95)
Billed Mar 10, 2006 TiVo Monthly Service $6.95 $0.00 $6.95
Settled Mar 10, 2006 Charged to: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX $6.95 $0.00 ($6.95)
Billed Feb 10, 2006 TiVo Monthly Service $6.95 $0.00 $6.95
Settled Feb 10, 2006 Charged to: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX $6.95 $0.00 ($6.95)


----------



## MEngland

a LT unit needs to call in at least once every six months to remain "Active" and qualify other units in the household for MSD. Let your LT unit call in.

Also - please move this discussion to another thread. It's not about the new pricing plans.


----------



## bigjohn

MEngland said:


> a LT unit needs to call in at least once every six months to remain "Active" and qualify other units in the household for MSD. Let your LT unit call in.
> 
> Also - please move this discussion to another thread. It's not about the new pricing plans.


It is if the first post says you'll continue to pay $6.95 for MSD and then all of a sudden you stop paying that.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

irecords said:


> I hope they have a good business plan in place, because they will need it, to compete against these goliaths, who clearly don't care about innovation as much as tivo does.
> 
> Geez - I should be working in the tivo pr department. lol
> 
> Let me know what you all think about my suggestions


seems like TiVo does not need your suggestions and is beating Goliath no problems.


----------



## MEngland

bigjohn said:


> It is if the first post says you'll continue to pay $6.95 for MSD and then all of a sudden you stop paying that.


Actually, this change in his billing has nothing to do with the new pricing plans. The old (non-bundled) pricing provided for a MSD price of $6.95 if you had a qualifying box on monthly or Lifetime. If the qualifying box was on Lifetime, it needed to call in at least once every six months to remain active and allow you to get the MSD price on the other boxes. This is not associated with the new Bundled Pricing.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

So, "you have until 4/15/2006" to lifetime your units means until the end of the 14th? Apparently that's their first tier answer today. What a crock!

Can you say "nickel and dime"? I knew you could. Either it's deliberately misleading so they can convince a few people today that it's no longer available who would otherwise get it, or it's bad business in poorly wording the exception (which was bad management leading to bad business in the first place).

Of course, the supervisor allowed the exception. How could he not? 

Yes, I could have done it before, I know. So what?

They could just allow "until the 15th" to mean what at least half of the folks out there are going to think it means and leave it at that.

Congrats on not litigating yourselves out of business, though. So far.


----------



## ChuckyBox

ThreeSoFar said:


> Can you say "nickel and dime"? I knew you could.


Can you say "chip on shoulder?" I knew you could. 
How about "paranoid?" Sure you can.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ChuckyBox said:


> Can you say "chip on shoulder?" I knew you could.
> How about "paranoid?" Sure you can.


Can you say "disappointed"?

Can you say "mismanagement"?

Or do you prefer "rose colored glasses"? I knew you did.


----------



## MEngland

Can you say... *No Problem*

I am on the phone with TiVo right now, and I have done one other LT upgrade last week. In the current call, I told the agent what I wanted and she told me that there would be no problem. Lifetime upgrades currently require a case to be opened and it takes abot 5 minutes for the agent to do this, but that's all it takes.

My Lifetime order is now confirmed (4/15/06; 10:50a PDT). I know from last week's upgrade that it takes about 5-7 days for the status on my account to change.

I think I read somewhere that you have until 8:00pm PDT on 4/15 get Lifetime on existing boxes.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

MEngland said:


> Can you say... *No Problem*
> 
> I am on the phone with TiVo right now, and I have done one other LT upgrade last week. In the current call, I told the agent what I wanted and she told me that there would be no problem. Lifetime upgrades currently require a case to be opened and it takes abot 5 minutes for the agent to do this, but that's all it takes.
> 
> My Lifetime order is now confirmed (4/15/06; 10:50a PDT). I know from last week's upgrade that it takes about 5-7 days for the status on my account to change.
> 
> I think I read somewhere that you have until 8:00pm PDT on 4/15 get Lifetime on existing boxes.


Had "no problem" been the first guy's response, I'd see no problem.


----------



## ChuckyBox

ThreeSoFar said:


> Can you say "disappointed"?
> 
> Can you say "mismanagement"?





ChuckyBox said:


> Can you say "chip on shoulder?" I knew you could.
> How about "paranoid?" Sure you can.


Repeat as necessary.


----------



## tazzftw

I like how people wait until the 15th to call just to see what they mean by "the 15th" and thus find something else to complain about.


----------



## murphy54

thanks man for all of it !


----------



## jfh3

ThreeSoFar said:
 

> Can you say "disappointed"?
> 
> Can you say "mismanagement"?
> 
> Or do you prefer "rose colored glasses"? I knew you did.


OK, how about:

Can you say over-reaction?

One CSR didn't read the memo. Jeez.

It's pretty clear from NUMEROUS posts by TivoOpsMgr and TivoPony that the deadline is 8pm Pacific Daylight Time tonight.

Why did you wait until the last minute anyway? Were you just waiting to trip up a CSR and *****?


----------



## ThreeSoFar'sBro

Not to throw a wrench into everyone's discussion, but TiVO's announcement has a flaw. Having until 4/15/06 means that it ends at the beginning of 4/15/06. However, look at the quote below. *AFTER 4/15/06, this option is no longer available.* This means that it IS available ON 4/15/06. Not to be picky, and I'm not a lawyer, but when people write rules, laws, contracts....they should be very sure what they mean.

_You have until 4/15/06 to call and activate Product Lifetime service on any DVR except DVRs purchased via one of the new bundled pricing options (see below). Activating Product Lifetime Service is not available online; you must call TiVo Customer Support (1-877-367-8486) in order to activate Product Lifetime service. *After 4/15/06*, this option is no longer available._


----------



## dswallow

Yeah, they should say you can order lifetime service for any DVR until 8pm PT on 4/15/2006.

Oh wait...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3948368&&#post3948368


----------



## davezatz

jfh3 said:


> Can you say over-reaction?
> One CSR didn't read the memo. Jeez.


Either there's more than one, or the editor of PC World got the same one...
http://blogs.pcworld.com/techlog/archives/001862.html


----------



## jfh3

davezatz said:


> Either there's more than one, or the editor of PC World got the same one...
> http://blogs.pcworld.com/techlog/archives/001862.html


Absolutely amazing the lengths to which some writers will go to slam Tivo.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

jfh3 said:


> Absolutely amazing the lengths to which some writers will go to slam Tivo.


What isn't at all amazing, in fact it's downright ordinary, or even sub-par, is how _easy_ TiVo is making it to do so. Very simple things they're just getting completely wrong. The earliest obvious evidence I can think of is the first rebates years ago. How horrible was that? And time after time since, some really dumb mistakes.

I'm thankful they're still around. I love their service. But I can no longer say I have confidence they will be around in the future.


----------



## ChuckyBox

I realize that this is entirely on-topic, and therefore has become passe in this thread, but this:



TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Due to the terms of our relationship with Humax, however, new Humax DVD Recorder products (DRT400/800/2000) not previously activated for service (that is, they have no activation history) will continue to be eligible for Product Lifetime service activation. [ ... ]


plus this:


> Q. Can I transfer my Product Lifetime service contract to new hardware?
> 
> A. For Product Lifetime, the answer is no, just like today. This isn't really part of our announcement and the rules haven't changed, but since this is a frequently asked question I'm including it here. Product Lifetime is always tied to the specific box that you activated, as defined in the terms of the Product Lifetime Description: http://www.tivo.com/0.4.asp
> 
> There are only four exceptions:
> 
> 
> *30-day money back guarantee*: During the first 30 days after you activate your Product Lifetime service, you can transfer freely from one unit to another.
> [ ... ]


seems to provide a way to get product lifetime on *any* TiVo box as long both of these clauses remain in force.


----------



## jfh3

ChuckyBox said:


> seems to provide a way to get product lifetime on *any* TiVo box as long both of these clauses remain in force.


Except I thought the transfer to another box within 30 days is clarified somewhere to mean that it had to be a box of the same type (e.g. Humax DVD to Humax DVD or Series 2 to Series 2)


----------



## MEngland

ChuckyBox said:


> I realize that this is entirely on-topic, and therefore has become passe in this thread, but this: _<some links here>_ seems to provide a way to get product lifetime on *any* TiVo box as long both of these clauses remain in force.


I asked this a while back:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=291463

Never did get a definitive reply, though if the Humax loophole remains in force for a while, it might be something to try after S3 is released. I am surprised that no one from TiVo every clarified that these 30-day transfers are only between like machines. The absence of a NO makes me think this could be possible.

How much is LT on a Humax? Is it still $299? Just because TiVo is obligated to offer Lifetime, does not mean that the price cannot be increased.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Patrick (ThreeSoFar), sorry you had trouble on Saturday. I can see from the records that most customers had no issue. But just to let you know, even though you spoke to an agent who was misinformed, we would have worked with you to make sure you received your Product Lifetime even after the deadline.

I will separately contact the PC World author who had trouble.

All of our agents did receive training and multiple memoes about 8pm on Saturday being the cutoff. When you have hundreds of agents, it's an unfortunate fact of life that some agents will make a mistake from time to time. We apologize that you ran into an agent who made a mistake.

If ever an agent makes a mistake, we will do whatever is necessary to make it right.

Patrick, I know you're very disappointed in TiVo lately. I hope we can reverse your opinion. We're here for the long haul. You know how to reach me if I can help you directly.

Best regards,
Stephen


----------



## TiVoStephen

MEngland said:


> I asked this a while back:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=291463
> 
> Never did get a definitive reply, though if the Humax loophole remains in force for a while, it might be something to try after S3 is released. I am surprised that no one from TiVo every clarified that these 30-day transfers are only between like machines. The absence of a NO makes me think this could be possible.
> 
> How much is LT on a Humax? Is it still $299? Just because TiVo is obligated to offer Lifetime, does not mean that the price cannot be increased.


I just updated that other thread. You're right. After 5/16, new Humax DVD-R product lifetime contracts can only be transferred to other Humax DVD-R units.


----------



## ChuckyBox

MEngland said:


> I asked this a while back:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=291463


So you did. And I responded in that thread. Then later I came up with the idea on my own. Now I wonder if all of my clever ideas have similar origins. Did you ever post a message about inventing a box with a hard drive that can be used to record TV?


----------



## dswallow

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> I just updated that other thread. You're right. After 5/16, new Humax DVD-R product lifetime contracts can only be transferred to other Humax DVD-R units.


I suppose that means we see Series 3 units hit the shelves on 5/17...


----------



## Dan203

No, but we could see the new Series 2 DT units on 5/17. Although I'm hoping for sooner.

Dan


----------



## TiVoStephen

Don't read anything into that date other than it's 30 days after Product Lifetime is no longer available via the call center or online.


----------



## ChuckyBox

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Don't read anything into that date other than it's 30 days after Product Lifetime is no longer available via the call center or online.


But I'm right about the Humax thing, aren't I? A person could buy one on, say, 5/14 and lifetime it, then transfer the lifetime subscription to, say, the new Series 2 DT that you are announcing tomorrow, then return the Humax box.

You need to change the Humax-to-non-Humax lifetime transfer date to today, me thinks.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Well, we can't change our system today, but thanks for the heads-up! I'll watch for people trying to take advantage of that loophole and make sure it's not abused.


----------



## ChuckyBox

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Well, we can't change our system today, but thanks for the heads-up! I'll watch for people trying to take advantage of that loophole and make sure it's not abused.


When am I going to learn to keep my mouth shut? I'm like a frikin' dog with a bone.


----------



## dswallow

ChuckyBox said:


> When am I going to learn to keep my mouth shut? I'm like a frikin' dog with a bone.


Presumably by "abuse" he's referring to one person buying a Humax DVD-R unit then buying lifetime and transferring it to another unit then buying lifetime for it again and transferring it to another unit then buying lifetime again and transferring it to another unit... and so forth and so on as long as there remain minutes in the day. 

Of course, it does appear even that wouldn't be abuse since it's permitted. After all, how can you abuse something that's allowed to be done just by doing what's allowed?


----------



## ChuckyBox

dswallow said:


> Presumably by "abuse" he's referring to one person buying a Humax DVD-R unit then buying lifetime and transferring it to another unit then buying lifetime for it again and transferring it to another unit then buying lifetime again and transferring it to another unit... and so forth and so on as long as there remain minutes in the day.
> 
> Of course, it does appear even that wouldn't be abuse since it's permitted. After all, how can you abuse something that's allowed to be done just by doing what's allowed?


You can only put product lifetime on a Humax box if the box has no activation history. So one box, one transfer. They will probably watch for people making a business out of it: buy 100 Humax boxes, activate them with lifetime, transfer it to the DT boxes, then sell them on ebay, kind of thing.

My guess is that they'll let you do it once if you whine and complain and stamp your feet, but they won't make it easy.


----------



## 1283

ChuckyBox said:


> buy 100 Humax boxes, activate them with lifetime, transfer it to the DT boxes, then sell them on ebay


After that, what would that person do with 100 Humax boxes?


----------



## ChuckyBox

c3 said:


> After that, what would that person do with 100 Humax boxes?


Return them for a full refund per the 30-day money back guarantee. Or never open the boxes and return them to the stores from whence they came. Or, hell, don't even buy them in the first place, just go to the store and write down the TSNs.


----------



## timckelley

Nice loophole you found there. Nicely done.


----------



## thwart

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> Hi Dan, the reasoning behind that is that we can't move you to $12.95 unless you give us a further one year commitment, and we don't want to do that to you without you telling us that's what you want. Instead, you have to confirm you want $12.95 per month and agree to a new one-year commitment. This is identical to what cell phone companies and other service providers do today.


Just because other service providers do this doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. It sure would be nice to get an email explaining that we have some new payment options since we are at the end of our commitment.


----------



## jfh3

thwart said:


> Just because other service providers do this doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. It sure would be nice to get an email explaining that we have some new payment options since we are at the end of our commitment.


And it still makes no sense to force an additional 1 year commitment on a box that has already recovered its' hardware subsidy.


----------



## dswallow

jfh3 said:


> And it still makes no sense to force an additional 1 year commitment on a box that has already recovered its' hardware subsidy.


A simple way of protesting this is to just sell the equipment on EBay once the original term is paid off and get a brand new replacement...

I don't know if that's better financially, but it will certainly cost TiVo more upfront to keep putting new hardware in service someplace. I seriously doubt $7 x 12 months pays for the hardware and distribution cost of even a basic 80GB unit.


----------



## junkfood

I realize this was answered at the beginning of this thread, but I want to make sure that answer is still valid. I would like to buy a TiVo unit for a friend. I'd like to buy one from Best Buy, CompUSA, etc. and then have her activate it. 

I know she won't mind the $12.95 a month, but I feel bad giving her a present that comes with a $19.95 a month bill. Doesn't seem like much, but $13 is easier to swallow than $20.

My question is if I buy a unit from a retail store within the next few weeks, can I give it to her as a gift and have her activate it at the end of May for $12.95 a month?


----------



## jfh3

junkfood said:


> I realize this was answered at the beginning of this thread, but I want to make sure that answer is still valid. I would like to buy a TiVo unit for a friend. I'd like to buy one from Best Buy, CompUSA, etc. and then have her activate it.
> 
> I know she won't mind the $12.95 a month, but I feel bad giving her a present that comes with a $19.95 a month bill. Doesn't seem like much, but $13 is easier to swallow than $20.
> 
> My question is if I buy a unit from a retail store within the next few weeks, can I give it to her as a gift and have her activate it at the end of May for $12.95 a month?


Yes, if you buy a box at retail, the service charge is $12.95/month.


----------



## ScubaCat3

junkfood said:


> I realize this was answered at the beginning of this thread, but I want to make sure that answer is still valid. I would like to buy a TiVo unit for a friend. I'd like to buy one from Best Buy, CompUSA, etc. and then have her activate it.
> 
> I know she won't mind the $12.95 a month, but I feel bad giving her a present that comes with a $19.95 a month bill. Doesn't seem like much, but $13 is easier to swallow than $20.
> 
> My question is if I buy a unit from a retail store within the next few weeks, can I give it to her as a gift and have her activate it at the end of May for $12.95 a month?


You can also buy it at best buy and include a gift subscription. The 3 and 12 month prepaid subscription cards are still readily available. [Or I'll give you a good deal on a lifetime card.  ]


----------



## IamMrBill

OK well here is my 2 cents worth folks. 

My first TiVo cost $1300.00 I had to have it just that simple, heck my first MAC cost $8500.00 (said to say it was out dated in two months). I must have sold 15 units on word of mouth alone over the years.

It died (The TiVo, still have the MAC). 

Anyway I did the "lifetime transfer" to a new series two unit. Not a problem. I also asked at the the time "what about a even newer TiVo down the road"?

I was told that I would be "granfathered in" and not a problem, just call when it happens (a new unit comes out). 

Gee can I get that in "writing"?

Sure..........we here at TiVo will do that.

Ok Great!


Never saw anything in writing but after a few calls "it won't be a problem"! I am told.


Well guess what I did today.....and guess what! 

:down: 

NOPE Sorry we are not going to transfer your lifetime account for "any reason what-so-ever." 

I ask.....like if for some reason lighting mite just struck my house and The TiVo 2 I mite just go up in a puff of smoke!

Crack.....boom...........OH NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo

My TiVo has been hit by an "act of god"...............!!!

Well they then make a transfer! No Problem!

Guess what mite be my next call.


Oh nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Looking at my MAC!


----------



## ChuckyBox

You seem to have a mite infestation.


----------



## 1283

TiVoOpsMgr said:


> After 4/15/06, Humax DVD Recorder products with an activation history will no longer have Product Lifetime service as an activation option.


TiVoOpsMgr, can I still activate the service online myself and then call TiVo for lifetime on the same day? I have heard other people's experiences with CSRs making typos, so activating myself would minimize such problem. Thanks.


----------



## ig88

I have an existing TiVo Series 2 on lifetime.

I am interested in purchasing a new Dual Tuner TiVo, and am trying to figure out my best options.

As I see them, they are as follows:

1. The pre-release offer available to current subscribers, which gets you an 80-hour unit, with one year of service for $254.00 (this translates to $21.17/month for the first year).
Bottom Line:
80 hour
Upfront Cost $254.00
TL Cost One Year $254.00
Monthly Cost First Year $21.17



2. A retail 80-hour unit for $249.00. As I understand it, having an existing TiVo on lifetime would qualify me for the Multiple Service Discount for $6.95/month (this translates to $332.40, or $27.70/month for the first year). It is also my understanding that I would also qualify for the $150.00 rebate, which would change the first year costs to $182.40, or $15.20/month.
Bottom Line:
80 hour
Wait for rebate
Upfront Cost $249 + $6.95 = $255.95
TL Cost One Year $249 - $150 + (6.95 X 12) = 182.40
Monthly Cost First Year $15.20



3. A retail 180-hour unit for $349. Using the Multiple Service Discount for $6.95/month (which translates to $432.40, or $36.03/month for the first year). After applying the $150.00 rebate, the first year costs would be $282.40, or $23.53/month.
Bottom Line:
180 hour
Wait for rebate
Upfront Cost $349 + $6.95 = $355.95
TL Cost One Year $349 - $150 + (6.95 X 12) = 282.40
Monthly Cost First Year $23.53


It looks like there is no way I can buy a TiVo directly from TiVo (and get the best deal), as they do not offer an unbundled unit. As I qualify (as I understand it) for the Multiple Service Discount of $6.95/month, it does not make sense to order one of the bundled service units (unless I want to avoid the rebate hassle).

My assumptions:
-	a new DT would qualify for MSD since I have an existing Lfetime unit
-	Paying for the $6.95/month MSD service also qualifies me for the $150.00 rebate
-	In order to get the two points above, I must order from a retail store, as TiVo only sells bundles

Is the above logic correct?

Are there better options I am missing?

Does anyone know, can you pay the $6.95 up front for a years worth to avoid monthly bills?

I am leaning towards the 180-hour unit with rebate, as I think with two tuners the extra HD space will come in handy.


----------



## TiVoStephen

c3 said:


> TiVoOpsMgr, can I still activate the service online myself and then call TiVo for lifetime on the same day? I have heard other people's experiences with CSRs making typos, so activating myself would minimize such problem. Thanks.


Well, the only ways you're getting Product Lifetime now are for Humax DVD-R units or unredeemed Product Lifetime gift subs. For both of those situations, it's harder if you have monthly service already -- so I'd say no, it's best to call first.


----------



## Maren

TivoOpsMgr... 

On 4/4/06 I purchased a Tivo Single Tuner and got lifetime for it on 4/7/06. On 5/4/06 I purchased a DT Tivo at CC and called to have lifetime service transfered to it. I was told I should be ok and there would be no problem but it had to be escalated to accounting. Meanwhile, the single tuner Tivo with the lifetime was returned to Fry's because otherwise it would be over the 30 day return policy period. Now 5 days later I'm still waiting... and worrying. Have I just thrown away a Tivo with lifetime and stuck with a DT Tivo with nothing? 

Thanks,
mgk


----------



## timckelley

Wow! I think you were told wrong. But maybe the TiVo CSR needs to live up to their word.


----------



## timckelley

Oops. It seems I may be wrong about this, and that being within 30 days, you're allowed to do this.


----------



## TiVoStephen

Maren has contacted me and we will resolve the situation and investigate why the CSRs didn't transfer service properly to begin with.


----------



## MayorZikas78

I have a Series 2 with Lifetime Service and I want to purchase a 2nd Tivo, a Series 2 180 Hours DT...will I get the MSD? If not, how and when do I get it?


----------



## bpurcell

You will only get the MSD if you purchase the Tivo from a retail store and not Tivo directly. As long as your account is in good standing and you keep the Lifetime unit, you are eligible for the MSD.


----------



## christlab

wow everyone payed alot for their tivos. I got my tivo for $30 at a flee market. I then order my other tivo from tivo's website with a year subscription. Got the tivo for $30.00 =) also (plus tax)


----------



## MediaLivingRoom

This needs updating.


----------



## Bytez

7 months later, more price changes. WTF   

And there is no guarantee that Tivo won't raise prices within the next 3 years!!!!!!


----------



## timckelley

Bytez said:


> 7 months later, more price changes. WTF
> 
> And there is no guarantee that Tivo won't raise prices within the next 3 years!!!!!!


Then I guess you better lock into a 3 year contract to protect yourself from future price increases.


----------



## 1283

timckelley said:


> Then I guess you better lock into a 3 year contract to protect yourself from future price increases.


Exactly!


----------



## Bytez

I already have a box with them, this will be my last.


----------



## JohnBrowning

Bytez said:


> 7 months later, more price changes. WTF
> 
> And there is no guarantee that Tivo won't raise prices within the next 3 years!!!!!!


And which products and services guarantee no price increases over the next 3 years???


----------



## 1283

Bytez said:


> I already have a box with them, this will be my last.


I already have many boxes, and I may get more.


----------



## lessd

OK make this simple for me I just read that if you get a 2nd TiVo retail you can activate it for the MSD of $6.95/month with a one year commitment or did I miss read something because that not what your TiVo sight is allowing me to do. To get $6.95 I have to out 3 years. Is this true or not.


----------



## TiVoPony

Hey guys,

We are working on an FAQ to answer some of the questions raised here, but it's not ready to post yet.

I can point out a couple of things that a few of you have already hit upon here though.

For one, our pricing has gotten simpler - retail and online have exactly the same pricing structure now. The number of plans was cut in half as a result. Less confusing than before.

And, as has been pointed out by others here, overall prices have gone down for the majority of the plans we offer. The only exception is if you want a free box, but don't want to sign up for more than 12 months of service. Despite some of the alarmist headlines (well, I saw one), this is a price decrease for most everyone signing up for TiVo service.

And we made the box more accessible - you can get one for no money upfront. It's true that if you want the best service pricing, you have to sign up for a longer period of time. That's pretty intuitive, most things work that way.

And finally - nothing has changed for any existing customers. You have the same pricing you did when you woke up yesterday morning. Same plans, same deal.

So...consistency in retail & online, lower costs to subscribers overall, and no upfront costs. And existing subs still have the same plans they did before.

We're looking to drive TiVo into more homes. If the changes we're putting in place are scary & make you doubt what we're doing...hold on. Take a closer look. It's not as bad as the headlines read. 

Cheers,
Pony


----------



## xdroccax

First off, thank you for the update.. i'm sure everyone appreciates this information.

Secondly, you stated:



TiVoPony said:


> And finally - nothing has changed for any existing customers. You have the same pricing you did when you woke up yesterday morning. Same plans, same deal.


So in my situation, i have 1 S2 lifetime and 1 S2 that is currently in a 1yr prepay. When i purchased the 1yr prepay, i was under the understanding that on the 13th month i could switch to the MSD $6.95 rate IF i called in and changed it (PERIOD). This was also backed up by the CSR at the time.

Now when the 13th month approaches, am I to see $6.95??? OR am I forced to commit to another 3yrs before I can see the $6.95??

TIA

edit: Corrected 13th year to 13th month.


----------



## pdhenry

It's the cell-phone pricing model. Almost. But not quite.

I commit to three years. That's a long time. Longer than I would ever commit to a cell phone plan upfront, by the way. I should be rewarded - and I am, by being offered what was the walk-up (one year) service-only price just a week or two ago. OK, life stinks, can't look back. So let's look forward.

When my three year commitment (a long time, remember?) is up, what happens to my rate? With the current pricing it would go up to $19.95 (the current one-year commitment rate) unless I commit to _another_ two or three years! Where's the love now?

I don't get that end of it.


----------



## mfogarty5

TiVoPony said:


> And finally - nothing has changed for any existing customers. You have the same pricing you did when you woke up yesterday morning. Same plans, same deal.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


Are you sure that nothing has changed for existing customers?

Last December I went to Best Buy and bought a Series 2 and prepaid 12 months of service for my parents' Christmas gift. The box was $49.99($199 - $150 rebate) and the prepaid year of service was $155.40($12.95 x 12 months). At the time I told them that after 1 year that they would have to pay $12.95 a month.

As I read the new pricing structure my parents will now have to commit to an additional 3 YEAR CONTRACT to get the same pricing that I thought they were going to get when I bought them the gift.

If what you wrote above is true, then what you are saying is that not only was I penalized the time value of money by prepaying, but that I was also penalized because TiVo changed their pricing structure during the 1 year I prepaid.

What you are saying is that I should have just given them the $155.40 in cash on Christmas and told them to go ahead and pay $12.95 a month so they could avoid this price increase.

I WANT IT TO BE CLEAR THAT YOUR NEW PRICING POLICY DOES CHANGE THE PRICING STRUCTURE OR EXISTING CUSTOMERS AND I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.

While this probably doesn't constitute a breach of contract it does violate the spirit in which I bought their prepaid service.

I have told countless people about how much better TiVo is over a cable company DVR, but if you penalize my choice to prepay at Christmas last year by forcing my parents into a 3 year contract in order to get the same pricing they could have gotten if I had just set them up month to month last year, then you will lose 2 actual customers and anyone else I talk to.


----------



## bpurcell

pdhenry said:


> When my three year commitment (a long time, remember?) is up, what happens to my rate? With the current pricing it would go up to $19.95 (the current one-year commitment rate) unless I commit to _another_ two or three years!


Actually according to the details I read when I bought my DT with a 3-yr prepay, afterwards the price will go to the monthly price for a 3-yr contract at that time. So if my contract ended this month, it would go to 12.95/month. I *think* you would have to agree to a new contract if you wanted it for MSD eligibility, but I'm not sure about that.


----------



## kido

Everyone needs to realize that all of the plans represent the MINIMUM amount of time required to not be charged an early termination fee. That's it. Once the commitment period is over, you continue on at the SAME RATE as what you were paying before. You do not have to agree to a new contract or do anything, except make sure your account stays in good standing.


----------



## davezatz

kido said:


> Once the commitment period is over, you continue on at the SAME RATE as what you were paying before.


Wrong.

http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp



> "TiVo Service Only" Payment Plans
> 
> After the end of your monthly or prepaid commitment period, as applicable, your TiVo Service Only Payment Plan will continue on a month-to-month basis at the then applicable-rate for a one year commitment to the TiVo service.


(For _bundled _hardware/service you do continue on at the same rate. Anything bought at Best Buy, ebay, etc is a "TiVo Service Only" plan and reverts to the prevailing rate.)


----------



## Adam1115

mfogarty5 said:


> I WANT IT TO BE CLEAR THAT YOUR NEW PRICING POLICY DOES CHANGE THE PRICING STRUCTURE OR EXISTING CUSTOMERS AND I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.
> 
> While this probably doesn't constitute a breach of contract it does violate the spirit in which I bought their prepaid service.
> 
> I have told countless people about how much better TiVo is over a cable company DVR, but if you penalize my choice to prepay at Christmas last year by forcing my parents into a 3 year contract in order to get the same pricing they could have gotten if I had just set them up month to month last year, then you will lose 2 actual customers and anyone else I talk to.


Just to clear up, what you are saying isn't 100% correct. If they prepay for 3 years, $299, it's only $8.31 a month. Cheaper than they could've gotten month to month.

Seems like a helluva deal to me...


----------



## pdhenry

Adam1115 said:


> Just to clear up, what you are saying isn't 100% correct. If they prepay for 3 years, $299, it's only $8.31 a month. Cheaper than they could've gotten month to month.
> 
> Seems like a helluva deal to me...


Limited time offer, though.


----------



## colincd

This really stinks. 
I understand that TiVO wants to make the entry cost for TiVO low, so the monthly commitments are in place, but shouldn't the TiVO Guide be free after a point in time? 
Where are the good competitors? Competition makes everything better. Where are you? 
Let us buy the box and be free from monthly fees. 
TiVO find another way to generate monthly revenue. Try banner ads while I Fast Forward. Strike better deals with MSO's and Set Top Box makers. 
Don't gouge me, just sell me a box and let me be free. 
Once my car is paid off, I don't have to pay general motors for the right to own the car. 
Programming guides have to cost you nothing. The data for most people is gathered over the internet, so you no longer need expensive modems in local exchanges.. 
Set me free and let me enjoy TiVO, before someone takes your place. 
Competition fixes everything..


----------



## kido

colincd said:


> Once my car is paid off, I don't have to pay general motors for the right to own the car.


If you equate your car with your tivo, then you should equate the guide data with fuel.


----------



## kido

davezatz said:


> (For _bundled _hardware/service you do continue on at the same rate. Anything bought at Best Buy, ebay, etc is a "TiVo Service Only" plan and reverts to the prevailing rate.)


So after your TiVo Service Only contract is up, throw away your machine and grab a new bundled one. It seems to me the only people who will have a problem with this are those who slip into a coma before their service contract is up.


----------



## 1283

colincd said:


> Let us buy the box and be free from monthly fees.


Buy a lifetime unit from eBay.



colincd said:


> Programming guides have to cost you nothing.


Wrong.


----------



## Gai-jin

TiVoPony said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> We are working on an FAQ to answer some of the questions raised here, but it's not ready to post yet.
> 
> I can point out a couple of things that a few of you have already hit upon here though.
> 
> For one, our pricing has gotten simpler - retail and online have exactly the same pricing structure now. The number of plans was cut in half as a result. Less confusing than before.
> 
> And, as has been pointed out by others here, overall prices have gone down for the majority of the plans we offer. The only exception is if you want a free box, but don't want to sign up for more than 12 months of service. Despite some of the alarmist headlines (well, I saw one), this is a price decrease for most everyone signing up for TiVo service.
> 
> And we made the box more accessible - you can get one for no money upfront. It's true that if you want the best service pricing, you have to sign up for a longer period of time. That's pretty intuitive, most things work that way.
> 
> And finally - nothing has changed for any existing customers. You have the same pricing you did when you woke up yesterday morning. Same plans, same deal.
> 
> So...consistency in retail & online, lower costs to subscribers overall, and no upfront costs. And existing subs still have the same plans they did before.
> 
> We're looking to drive TiVo into more homes. If the changes we're putting in place are scary & make you doubt what we're doing...hold on. Take a closer look. It's not as bad as the headlines read.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


It would really have been nice to get the 'more information' today as was promised yesterday, but I guess we get to wait.

I should think any faq would have been made available the instant the new prices were posted. Seems like pretty poor planning from where I stand.

So, what happens at the end of an existing 1 year/12.95 commitment?

What happens to those of us with existing unactivated tivo hardware when we want to activate it? Or give it away? or sell it? From what I can see, you just artificially cut the value of the hardware we paid good money for, so that now it's worth LESS THAN NOTHING.

I was considerting ordering a DT box thru rewards. If I do that now, am I going to be locked into this ridiculous 13.95 a month msd pricing? A 1 year contract was awfully demanding on Tivo's part. A 3 year contract for something I pay full price (albeit in points) for is crazy.


----------



## chessplayer

TiVo has jumped the shark. Very few new customers will be willing to make a 3 year commitment, and the alternatives to TiVo are getting less expensive and easier to use.

And I've had TiVos for 5 years, but would not even consider a 3 year commitment due to not knowing whether I will have switched to HD only in 2 years, or what alternatives will exist, or how many more things TiVo will do to dissapoint me in the next 3 years.


----------



## Brighton Line

I have a Cablevision HD DVR and a Humax 80 Hour, I justify the $2.96 price difference for TiVo because the interface is so much better.
I can not justify a $10 price difference nor afford a 3 year plan up front (when I'm trying to save for another HD TV and an S3).


----------



## ZeoTiVo

Brighton Line said:


> I have a Cablevision HD DVR and a Humax 80 Hour, I justify the $2.96 price difference for TiVo because the interface is so much better.
> I can not justify a $10 price difference nor afford a 3 year plan up front (when I'm trying to save for another HD TV and an S3).


for your current HUMAX nothing changes. whatever you paid last month stays the same this month. No action is required by you unless it was a bundle deal and the time period on that is up.

for an S3 - I would easily buy lifetime for that unit as it will be viable for a good time to come. Agreeing to 3 year plan on an S3 seems like a no brainer to me.


----------



## bidger

colincd said:


> Where are the good competitors? Competition makes everything better. Where are you?


The fact that Replay has stepped down from manufacturing their machines and no one else has stepped forward should tell you that DVR is not a growth industry. It's a retention tool for multichannel providers, not something they spend a lot of time over. Plus, a DVR isn't considered a necessity by the general public.

I do think that $19.95/mo. is exorbitant, based on what TiVo does right now, and not everyone is going to throw down $300 lump sum and live with a 3 year commitment. But, if you want free right now you'll either have to get a MCE PC or build your own DVR.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

bidger said:


> I do think that $19.95/mo. is exorbitant, based on what TiVo does right now, and not everyone is going to throw down $300 lump sum and live with a 3 year commitment.


just for clarity you can agree to pay monthly with a 3 year committment and pay 12.95 a month. after 3 years you do not need to agree to anything furtehr but get stuck paying the highest month to month - curretnly 19.95  
The 299$ prepay for 3 years is pretty cool though as it bringst he cost down to 8.30 a month. If I was buying my first TiVo today I would pay the 299$ upfront.

But I do see the main point that this may be a barrier to someone thinking about TiVo but not aware of the many benefits of a TiVo DVR to know it is well worth it.


----------



## davezatz

ZeoTiVo said:


> just for clarity you can agree to pay monthly with a 3 year committment and pay 12.95 a month. after 3 years you do not need to agree to anything furtehr and just continue to pay the 12.95.


If you bundle hardware & service you continue on at whatever rate you're at. If you buy hardware separately at Best Buy or ebay and add a 3 year plan for $12.95/mo or $299 you move into the highest month-to-month rate category when you're done - which at the moment is $19.95.

Three years is a long time, so who knows what things will look like then. Frankly, I have no desire to commit to three years of standard definition anything. Heck, in its current form the single tuner S2 can't even be sold in a few months due to FCC regulations. What we need is a S3 Lite or a S2 HD (with MRV and TTG) for people to commit to.

http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp



> After the end of your monthly or prepaid commitment period, as applicable, your *TiVo Package Payment Plan* will continue on a monthly basis at the then-applicable rate for a one (1), two (2), or three (3) year monthly TiVo Package based on whether your TiVo Package was for one (1), two (2), or three (3) years. After the end of your monthly or prepaid commitment period, you may also have the option to sign up for a lower monthly TiVo Service Only Payment Plan price for a longer commitment term or purchase a prepaid TiVo Service Only Payment Plan.





> After the end of your monthly or prepaid commitment period, as applicable, your *TiVo Service Only Payment Plan *will continue on a month-to-month basis at the then applicable-rate for a one year commitment to the TiVo service.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

davezatz said:


> If you buy hardware separately at Best Buy or ebay and add a 3 year plan for $12.95/mo or $299 you move into the highest month-to-month rate category when you're done - which at the moment is $19.95.


what is your source for that? EDIT - took out a wrong statement. the quote above is correct 

again I can see the point about not wanting to do 3 years on SD tech. but also bear in mind that with this new pricing comes the fact you can buy a new box and transfer the commitment to that new box from the old one. You are not locking into that specific tech.


----------



## timckelley

davezatz said:


> Frankly, I have no desire to commit to three years of standard definition anything.


How many more times does it need to be said? the committment is to gude data, not to "standard definition". It's up to you to decide when to get rid of your SD box and upgrade to HD. All TiVo is asking you for when you commit to 3 years is that you will get their guide data for 3 years. They don't care what box you import it to, or if you change midstream in your contract to a different box.


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## davezatz

ZeoTiVo said:


> what is your source for that?


My source is: http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp



timckelley said:


> the committment is to gude data, not to "standard definition". It's up to you to decide when to get rid of your SD box and upgrade to HD.





ZeoTiVo said:


> but also bear in mind that with this new pricing comes the fact you can buy a new box and transfer the commitment to that new box from the old one.


If the service can be transferred to another unit, TiVo should update their agreement to explicitly state it. It current doesn't say anything of the sort. Also, I assume you are not eligible for rebates if you take this route.

Lastly TiVo also has this to say below, so what is applicable today may not be applicable tomorrow. No surprise, but were basing future scenarios on info which may not be applicable. Megazone's whole pricing analysis is based on the current rebate structure which expires 12/31 - what happens after that?

http://www.tivo.com/5.11.2.asp



> You have a choice of subscription payment options that may change over time. TiVo reserves the right to discontinue any subscription payment option at any time without notice. You may switch payment options at the end of each period. If for any reason you need to reactivate your subscription, you may be charged a reactivation fee.


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## colincd

I just do not understand why there are so many supporters here for TiVO and a monthly service fee. 
Should not the programming guide data be free? I understand that some people would rather not have to lay out a few hundred dollars for the TiVO in the beginning, but other would rather just buy the unit and be done with it. 
TiVO, advertisers are FREAKING out right now. Good, let them.. 
The TiVO model should be to get as many of these boxes into homes, for the lowest price. Saturate the market with TiVO. Then, approach advertisers with this enormous TiVO community, partner with Google for auctioned banner advertisements during fast forward, in the channel guide, and on the TiVO today screen. Tap into the "long tail" and go for advertisers by zip code. Copy the google model, but make it work for interactive television. 
This can be done. 
Do you think Google would be the company it is today if they charged a monthly fee for the right to search? Get creative TiVO. 
Charge Content Creators to force TiVO to record their show as long as you do not have the TiVO scheduled to record anything else.. 
There are so many NEW and wonderful places to generate revenue, subsidize these boxes and kill the monthly fee. 
TiVO's new model should be to get as many of the TiVO boxes out there as they can.


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## ah30k

Guide data is not free (TiVo pays a license for each active unit). Servers to support guide data are not free. Servers to support web interfaces to your TiVo are not free. The list could go on.


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## ZeoTiVo

ZeoTiVo said:


> what is your source for that? I think it is the opposite that if you start a monthly service only plan then you stay on it at the end of the term without doing anything further..


CRAP - I was wrong on that.

number 7 under the Service Only part from http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp

7. After the end of your monthly or prepaid commitment period, as applicable, your TiVo Service Only Payment Plan will continue on a month-to-month basis at the then applicable-rate for a one year commitment to the TiVo service.

that does not seem like an inducement to sign up at all then.


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## timckelley

Wow. So that sounds like if you sign up for 3 years at $12.95 per month, when the 3 years is up, (suppose here that rates do not go up in the next 3 years) you will automatically be renewed at $19.95 per month. Worse, if the rates go up. Of course I would think you'd have to option to sign up for another 3 years if you want. But this means to avoid the high rates, you will always be in on a 3 year contract, even after that 3 years is up - you need a new 3 year contract.

Wow.


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## colincd

ah30k said:


> Guide data is not free (TiVo pays a license for each active unit). Servers to support guide data are not free. Servers to support web interfaces to your TiVo are not free. The list could go on.


My point is that TiVO should not be passing along this fee to the consumer. 
If they need to pass along the license fee, then pass along that "small" fee, don't generate revenue off of it.
There are creative ways to generate money and get more TiVo boxes out there.


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## colincd

timckelley said:


> Wow. So that sounds like if you sign up for 3 years at $12.95 per month, when the 3 years is up, (suppose here that rates do not go up in the next 3 years) you will automatically be renewed at $19.95 per month. Worse, if the rates go up. Of course I would think you'd have to option to sign up for another 3 years if you want. But this means to avoid the high rates, you will always be in on a 3 year contract, even after that 3 years is up - you need a new 3 year contract.
> 
> Wow.


Timckelley,
don't worry, the hard drive in that box will not last more than four years anyway.


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## ah30k

colincd said:


> My point is that TiVO should not be passing along this fee to the consumer.
> If they need to pass along the license fee, then pass along that "small" fee, don't generate revenue off of it.
> There are creative ways to generate money and get more TiVo boxes out there.


It's hard to give boxes away for free, pay a monthly license to tribune without passing it along and offer service upgrades while still making money. I'm sure Pony would love to talk to you about your business case for earning a required rate of return for the TiVo investors.


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## ChuckyBox

timckelley said:


> Wow. So that sounds like if you sign up for 3 years at $12.95 per month, when the 3 years is up, (suppose here that rates do not go up in the next 3 years) you will automatically be renewed at $19.95 per month. Worse, if the rates go up. Of course I would think you'd have to option to sign up for another 3 years if you want. But this means to avoid the high rates, you will always be in on a 3 year contract, even after that 3 years is up - you need a new 3 year contract.
> 
> Wow.


Just to be clear, you would not be "renewed" at $19.95/month, you would have a monthly payment of $19.95, with no commitment. But if you went for a new contract (to get the lower rates), you could also get whatever new hardware they are offering for free at that time. Three years from now, the low-end TiVo box will be at least dual-tuners and digital, and possibly HD (or that might be an upgrade).

It's not as no-strings as a cable DVR, but there is no way for TiVo to be that no-strings. But the new plans do offer a hardware upgrade path.


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## colincd

ah30k said:


> It's hard to give boxes away for free, pay a monthly license to tribune without passing it along and offer service upgrades while still making money. I'm sure Pony would love to talk to you about your business case for earning a required rate of return for the TiVo investors.


TiVo, the secret is the more boxes you have out there, the more money you can generate by exploiting that saturation.
Take a look at the book written by Chris Anderson, or better yet, read this summary.


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## lessd

colincd said:


> Timckelley,
> don't worry, the hard drive in that box will not last more than four years anyway.


The point was made that unlike the old Lifetime Service this "new service commitment" is not connected to any one TiVo unit, you can change TiVo units at any time as long as one TiVo stays on the contract so all your committing to is 3 years of TiVo service and if you already have a lifetime TiVo (or another at non MSD pricing) the 3 years is at $6.95/month. As (or if ) TiVo comes out with new hardware you can get it and put it on the same contract. The real problem is if you can't get the rebates on the new hardware, but the Series 3 does not have a rebate anyway.
I am not saying I like this pricing because before April of 06 it was an easy job to sell TiVo to my friends and family GO LIFETIME and be done with it, as least for the first TiVo, then the 2nd on was at $6.96/month, no contract past 60 days (if you wanted the rebate). Now I would not even try to explain it to anybody, if people ask me about TiVo I tell them to go to a store that sells them and let the store explain it to them, and if they end up not liking their options they will be mad at the store not me.


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## kido

It seems to me that TiVo is trying to move away from the brick and mortar distribution model and trying to move new customers to ordering bundles from TiVo directly. We may not like this business decision, but I cannot say I blame them. They seem to have very little control over the presentation of their product in stores or quality of the salespeople. They probably have better margins on bundles and don't have to deal with rebates and other hassles. Their SA growth in recent quarters has been rather anemic and for them to survive as a business, they need to adapt.


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## classicsat

colincd said:


> This really stinks.
> I understand that TiVO wants to make the entry cost for TiVO low, so the monthly commitments are in place, but shouldn't the TiVO Guide be free after a point in time?


No. Just that "fulfilled" or fully owned boxes pay a lesser rate with no commitment. Under current conditions, it would be impossible to give both the boxes and the service away, and have a user palatable service.



> Where are the good competitors? Competition makes everything better. Where are you?


There are none, currently, in the standalone DVR appliance segment, with the level of features TiVo has. Everything else is a provider DVR, or lesser featured.



> Let us buy the box and be free from monthly fees.


Most of he general public will not want to buy the box at the price they'd have to sell it at to provide free service.



> TiVO find another way to generate monthly revenue. Try banner ads while I Fast Forward. Strike better deals with MSO's and Set Top Box makers.


They do, but it doesn't provide much revenue. And they have deals with Comcast and some other providers. As for non-provider based CE STB manufacturers, they might have another round of them in a couple years.



> Don't gouge me, just sell me a box and let me be free.
> Once my car is paid off, I don't have to pay general motors for the right to own the car.


So go buy a box that has free DVR service. TiVo isn't it.
For your car, GM'd business model is to sell the hardware. TiVos is to sell the service to consumers, with the hardware as a means to provide the service.



> Programming guides have to cost you nothing. The data for most people is gathered over the internet, so you no longer need expensive modems in local exchanges..


Guide data costs them, as corporate users of the data. TiVos need servers to modfy and manage that data, and the modem pool to send it to TiVos not directly connected to the internet.



> Set me free and let me enjoy TiVO, before someone takes your place.
> Competition fixes everything..


Then create a competitive DVR that will compete with TiVos business model, and customers they intend to gain, or may lose becasue of their choices.


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## ZeoTiVo

kido said:


> It seems to me that TiVo is trying to move away from the brick and mortar distribution model and trying to move new customers to ordering bundles from TiVo directly. We may not like this business decision, but I cannot say I blame them. They seem to have very little control over the presentation of their product in stores or quality of the salespeople. They probably have better margins on bundles and don't have to deal with rebates and other hassles. Their SA growth in recent quarters has been rather anemic and for them to survive as a business, they need to adapt.


you know this really puts some sense around the whole thing for me. I hate the rebates as well and TiVo has most likely found success with the online sales. The part that would go to the B&M store makes up for the percentage of rebates typically not fulfilled. Plus they no longer need to pay a 3rd party rebate center.

So lower the cost to what the rebate would have made it, sell the box for that online and make sure the customer is in for the long haul to protect against the low hardware cost without rebate hassle. They can easily control the cost to supply the hardware as the only variable cost left outside their control is the shipping.

I guess we are all railing against it because of the fact that Service Only plans fall under the same umbrella now adn thus MSD rates came along for the ride as well. Really my only gripe is that I need to keep re-upping for 3 years to maintain the current rate on any new service activations(like my DT when it comes off special) but this also fits the theory that TiVo *wants me to seriously consider ditching that old S2 DT in 3 years* in favor of whatever new hardware is the low cost or free TiVo at that time.


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## Y-ASK

ZeoTiVo said:


> So lower the cost to what the rebate would have made it, sell the box for that online and make sure the customer is in for the long haul to protect against the low hardware cost without rebate hassle. They can easily control the cost to supply the hardware as the only variable cost left outside their control is the shipping.


So what's the cost (penalty) for cancelling the service early, say at the 2 year mark on a 3 year service deal?

Y-ASK


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## davezatz

Y-ASK said:


> So what's the cost (penalty) for cancelling the service early, say at the 2 year mark on a 3 year service deal?


Up to $150 for service only plans, up to $200 for bundled hardware and service. It almost looks like you're let off the hook on the service-only plan after 12 months...? maybe I'm misreading it or maybe it's a mistake, I can't imagine that's their intention.

http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp


> An early termination fee of the lesser of $200.00 or the amount owed on the remaining term of your monthly TiVo Package commitment will be charged to you if your monthly TiVo Package is cancelled prior to the end of your commitment
> 
> An early termination fee of up to $150.00 applies to your one (1) year monthly TiVo Service Only Payment Plan if cancelled prior to the end of your commitment


TiVo does extend the warranty period on bundled hardware/service plans which is good. I'd like to see it also offered on service-only plans.



> The parts portion only of your Limited Warranty for your TiVo DVR will be extended for the term of your commitment period.


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## solrac

This is my first time here and I only found this by accident. I was looking for something on the Tivo website and I saw a link that took me here. 
I just wanted to state that when I called Tivo about the lifetime availability back when it was available, but expiring soon, I was TOLD that the lifetime was only available for newer purchases and I DID NOT qualify. Well to my amazement after reading here I see that I DID qualify and that the person I spoke to was sadly mistaken and definitely misinformed. I never thought to ask to speak to a supervisor, because I trusted that the person I spoke with knew what they were talking about. I am very disappointed that I missed out. I don't feel that I should have to fight/argue with a customer service person to get to speak to a qualified rep that knows what is going on. 

I also read on here that some Humax brands had lifetime still available. Are certain models still available for lifetime service agreements? If so what models, where can I find them, and how much would the lifetime cost? I called customer service today and the rep told me NO that NO TIVOS are offering lifetime subscriptions any longer, but reading this makes me question their ability to know what is and isn't going on. Her knowledge of how the new HD plan worked was not very good either. I was more informed than she.

I am also trying to understand the new service agreements. I have 2 tivos both with lifetimes, if I get a 3rd what would my payment options be? Would I pay the $6.95 mo? Or do I have to buy a 1, 2, or 3 yr plan(monthly not an option for me, so I didn't put it down)? And are the new plans not for particular tivos, but just a time frame? Meaning If I can buy another tivo made by Pioneer tomorrow get the 3yr term and then transfer that 3yrs term in a year(now 2yrs remaining) to a new tivo made by tivo or does it have to be to a certain brand (tivo to tivo only, pioneer to pioneer only, humax to humax only). Please help I am really confused. And I don't want to get SCREWED AGAIN by not having the correct information.


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## jfh3

If you get a new Humax DVD unit, you can put lifetime on it for $299. No other boxes qualify for lifetime, including Pioneer.

As for the transferability, yes - when you sub to a prepaid or month/month plan, you are committing to a service plan, not a particular hardware box, so it can be moved to a new box (say, a Series 3) later on down the line.


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## HDTiVo

solrac said:


> This is my first time here and I only found this by accident. I was looking for something on the Tivo website and I saw a link that took me here.


Really? Have the rolled back to the original March Plan fiasco already?


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