# Spying on viewing habits



## wco81 (Dec 28, 2001)

http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/11/own-a-vizio-smart-tv-its-watching-you/

My Panny Plasma has built in Netflix and other streaming apps. Have no idea if it does tracking. I don't have it hooked up to the Internet. Same thing with my Blu Ray player. I did hook it up but don't use the streaming options.

They're old and may not have the processing power to run this kind of spying software.

But apparently people are using smart TV features more, rather than buy a separate streaming box like Roku or Apple TV? Who knows if Roku does similar kind of data collection.

I mainly use Tivo, which has Amazon and Netflix apps, as well as Xfinity. Don't know if it tracks with the kind of specificity that is described in the article about the Vizio.

Of course Tivo makes you connect to the Internet now for a lot of features.

I have to say that the TV manufacturers have a bit more justification for trying to raise more money by collecting and selling viewing data, through they should be up front about it and say we can sell these TVs so cheaply because the business model is advertiser-supported, like those cheap Kindles that Amazon offers.

But Tivo collects hefty service fees and then if they sell specific info, like the kind of season passes a person has, tied with their Tivo user profile, name, IP address, etc., they deserve to go out of business.


----------



## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

wco81 said:


> But Tivo collects hefty service fees and then if they sell specific info, like the kind of season passes a person has, tied with their Tivo user profile, name, IP address, etc., they deserve to go out of business.


Links of interest:
https://www.tivo.com/legal/terms
https://www.tivo.com/legal/privacy

I'd summarize what I feel are the relevant portions, but it's probably best for you and any future readers to review these documents fully for yourselves. Please feel free to comment on them or ask questions about them though!


----------



## wco81 (Dec 28, 2001)

OK from the Privacy link, lot of loopholes for giving private info. to others:



> Disclosure of Personal Information
> We are not in the business of selling your personal information to third parties. We will disclose your personal information to third parties only if:
> 
> we get your consent;
> ...


And the default is that we're opted-in so you have to call in, you can't opt out online as they say here:



> Your Choices
> Email: If you do not want to receive marketing emails from us, you can change your email preferences by logging into your account on tivo.com or clicking on the included "unsubscribe" link (though you will still receive certain account-related emails). We will send you marketing emails only where we are permitted to do so by applicable law.
> 
> Cookies: If you do not want us to store or otherwise use cookies on your computer, your browser may offer tools to disable or reject cookies (though you may not be able to use some website features if you do so). To learn more about your choices with regard to third-party advertising companies participating in industry self-regulation, visit http://www.aboutads.info.
> ...


----------



## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

As far as I can tell they aren't getting "granular" enough in what they share that some 3rd party finds out "unitron is 4 weeks behind on watching Gotham episodes and a season and half behind on Sleepy Hollow", but something more along the lines of "this particular community saw x amount of viewership within y number of days since broadcast date for show z among local TiVo users", or maybe "63% of users in this community who watched "Annoying Housewives of Wherever" also viewed "Cooking With Shouting Australians" at least 3 out of every 4 weeks".

And although I get occasional emails from TiVo trying to get me to buy whatever the current model is, I see nothing to suggest that they've shared my email address with anyone outside the company.

Of course I'm running nothing newer than 648s and 652s, so YMMV.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

unitron said:


> . . . "Cooking With Shouting Australians". . .


One of our favorites.


----------



## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

waynomo said:


> One of our favorites.


Throw my digeridoo on the barbie, mate! Plus a Vegimite sandwich!


----------



## wco81 (Dec 28, 2001)

Don't buy a ****ty Vizio.

http://arstechnica.com/security/201...on-vizio-tvs-coughs-up-owners-viewing-habits/


----------



## tivoboy (Jan 14, 2002)

Does anyone know what sort of ad targeting and placement linking that Tivo does (or the cable providor that is embedded in the box?

For example, I have comcast as the cableco with a cablecard in the tivo.

Unless I am going totally crazy, my search history on our computers is now somehow driving the advertising that I am starting to see on the tivo box?

I know this is the way it happens with internet browsers, google, others and the IP address linked to the gateway and the search history. Christmas is really the easiest time to see this in action. Other household searches on other computers, start to show up as ads on OTHER computer, etc.. its the next evolution of advertising. 

But I didn't think either tivo or the cableco's were doing this YET to the connected tv's or cable signals?


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

A couple months ago I was watching something on my TiVo connected to a Samsug smart TV when an ad for Toyota popped up covering about 1/3 of the screen. At firstI thought it was the TiVo, butit stayed even when I went into the TiVo menus and covered part of the menus up. So then I realized it was the TV. Since I use TiVo for everything I have the TV remote stashed away in a box. I had to dig it out of that box to get the stupid ad to go away. Talk about a f*cked up marketing practice. I paid nearly $3,000 for this TV and they're obscuring 1/3 of the screen with an ad that I have no easy way to clear. I searched all the menus and there is no way to turn that off. If it happens again I'm disconnecting the Ethernet cable and never using it's smart features again.


----------



## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> A couple months ago I was watching something on my TiVo connected to a Samsug smart TV


I've pretty much sworn off Samsung products. On the TV front, not passing surround sound out through the optical out, AND apparently having different screens on the same model TV makes Samsung a no-go.

On the smartphone front my complaints are mainly regarding their redesign of the S6 to resemble an iPhone, without apparently doing any customer feedback as to why existing customers bought their product. They remind me of Jenn-Air--just sending a bunch of stupid advertising emails but never requesting any feedback as to what you think of their product, and why you bought them. Seems incredibly out of date, and that is more excusable for an appliance company than a tech company.


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

GoodSpike said:


> I've pretty much sworn off Samsung products. On the TV front, not passing surround sound out through the optical out, AND apparently having different screens on the same model TV makes Samsung a no-go.


They still don't pass surround sound out? Wow - My Sammy from 2009 doesn't, but I'd have guessed they would have changed that by now...


----------



## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

It depends. Most TVs, for example, will not bitstream audio from HDMI to the optical out - they will only advertise PCM 2.0 and pass PCM 2.0 to the optical. The few that do, often only support Dolby Digital and not DTS.

Most TVs these days, especially with smart apps, will bitstream dolby digital at least out optical if it comes from the app, or the tuner. Few will do it for HDMI.

Generally accepted solution is if you need to do this, you use an HDMI audio extractor.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This may help. Sony's usually work. Samsung usually doesn't:
http://www.cnet.com/news/20-tvs-tested-which-sets-can-pass-surround-sound-to-a-sound-bar/

Every Sony I have used for the past 10 years passes up to DD 5.1 from HDMI to optical. The specs from 2015 models indicates DTS is now passed also.


----------



## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

TV is one of the rare areas in life that I actually WANT to be spied on. I want to count as a statistic towards everything I like so that more content is more likely to be made.


----------



## dameatball (Feb 24, 2014)

unitron said:


> As far as I can tell they aren't getting "granular" enough in what they share that some 3rd party finds out "unitron is 4 weeks behind on watching Gotham episodes and a season and half behind on Sleepy Hollow", but something more along the lines of "this particular community saw x amount of viewership within y number of days since broadcast date for show z among local TiVo users", or maybe "63% of users in this community who watched "Annoying Housewives of Wherever" also viewed "Cooking With Shouting Australians" at least 3 out of every 4 weeks".
> 
> And although I get occasional emails from TiVo trying to get me to buy whatever the current model is, I see nothing to suggest that they've shared my email address with anyone outside the company.
> 
> Of course I'm running nothing newer than 648s and 652s, so YMMV.


Tivo is absolutely collecting, selling and using personal Identifying information to 3rd parties and advertisers to better target, track and customize their ads accordingly. If you opt-out, you can't use the Amazon Prime app for movies as the incentive for Amazon to provide it is now gone. Tracking our viewing habits as an aggregate or to fit into some sort of demo marketing, I could care less. But they are putting our names, phone, addresses together with our viewing habits and tracking it against our buying behavior for better performing, more customized ads. They're actually paving some new ground in terms of privacy/intrusiveness. I called to opt-out. She told me no one has ever asked her to do that before. It required her gong back and forth a lot to speak with someone as she wasn't sure how to do it, and what the ramifications are. 
I'm not a privacy nut, and to an extent understand advertisers need to get something out of it (as we aren't typical watching their commercials). But this is way over the top/creepy.
Google's services are free, and in exchange they sell every single personal piece of personal information about us. It's a trade-off most of us are aware of.

With Tivo, we buy hardware, pay monthly and get ads on the GUI itself.
Here's one of many articles on Tivo's "privacy policy":
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20151106-column.html


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dameatball said:


> Tivo is absolutely collecting, selling and using personal Identifying information to 3rd parties and advertisers to better target, track and customize their ads accordingly. If you opt-out, you can't use the Amazon Prime app for movies as the incentive for Amazon to provide it is now gone. Tracking our viewing habits as an aggregate or to fit into some sort of demo marketing, I could care less. But they are putting our names, phone, addresses together with our viewing habits and tracking it against our buying behavior for better performing, more customized ads. They're actually paving some new ground in terms of privacy/intrusiveness. I called to opt-out. She told me no one has ever asked her to do that before. It required her gong back and forth a lot to speak with someone as she wasn't sure how to do it, and what the ramifications are.
> I'm not a privacy nut, and to an extent understand advertisers need to get something out of it (as we aren't typical watching their commercials). But this is way over the top/creepy.
> Google's services are free, and in exchange they sell every single personal piece of personal information about us. It's a trade-off most of us are aware of.
> 
> ...


I'm also not a privacy nut, at least when it comes to what I watch on TV, I just checked and the white pager on *AnyWho* has my name and address and phone number, with directions on how to get to my home, talk about privacy, but I am not a public person and don't use my TV in any illegal way (like having in a bar for the public to watch etc.) so I look at this as so much information about so many people how can this be bad for me. It not like the millions of $ I am offered from the Nigerian scammers is a result of TiVo selling my TV watching habits.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lessd said:


> I'm also not a privacy nut, at least when it comes to what I watch on TV, I just checked and the white pager on AnyWho has my name and address and phone number, with directions on how to get to my home, talk about privacy, but I am not a public person and don't use my TV in any illegal way (like having in a bar for the public to watch etc.) so I look at this as so much information about so many people how can this be bad for me. It not like the millions of $ I am offered from the Nigerian scammers is a result of TiVo selling my TV watching habits.


We used to have these things called phone books. They were distributed to everyone who had a phone. They were provided by the phone company. They included your name and your address and your phone number. You had to pay to have an unlisted number.

Most towns had either pubic or privately financed directories. They had the same information as the phone book with an address cross reference.

How is that any different?

Where you live pretty much is public information and always has been.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

It is different now that there are autodialers and there are scammers all across the world and most importantly, they don't have to pay per minute.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> We used to have these things called phone books. They were distributed to everyone who had a phone. They were provided by the phone company. They included your name and your address and your phone number. You had to pay to have an unlisted number.
> 
> Most towns had either pubic or privately financed directories. They had the same information as the phone book with an address cross reference.
> 
> ...


I agree with the above, but how could TiVo information on my TV viewing make things any worse.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lessd said:


> I agree with the above, but how could TiVo information on my TV viewing make things any worse.


It can't.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jth tv said:


> It is different now that there are autodialers and there are scammers all across the world and most importantly, they don't have to pay per minute.


Autodialers have been with us for decades.


----------



## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Robocalls then.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> Autodialers have been with us for decades.


Robocalls, Autodialers , has nothing to do with TiVo privacy policy, I am sure the guy on the phone trying to fix my Windows computer did not get his information from TiVo to call me, I told one of them I had a Mac, so now I get phone calls to fix my Mac. and Windows computer, *crap*.


----------



## tivoboy (Jan 14, 2002)

I'm starting to wonder if it is TIVO or the cableco (comcast in this case) that is inserting the ads based on computer internet searches and websites visited. 

Does that all flow directly via the cablecard that the cableco would own and command?


----------



## dameatball (Feb 24, 2014)

lessd said:


> I'm also not a privacy nut, at least when it comes to what I watch on TV, I just checked and the white pager on *AnyWho* has my name and address and phone number, with directions on how to get to my home, talk about privacy, but I am not a public person and don't use my TV in any illegal way (like having in a bar for the public to watch etc.) so I look at this as so much information about so many people how can this be bad for me. It not like the millions of $ I am offered from the Nigerian scammers is a result of TiVo selling my TV watching habits.


well there are a number of ways this can be bad. That said, I personally don't care; nor was I making a statement whether you should or shouldn't care. I was simply replying to the previous post that speculated the info they collected wasn't 'granular'. I only relayed what was in fact happening with the data being collected and not only is it PII, but goes a step further with the customized ads etc. Whether you personally decide it's intrusive or not is up to you.


----------



## dameatball (Feb 24, 2014)

TonyD79 said:


> We used to have these things called phone books. They were distributed to everyone who had a phone. They were provided by the phone company. They included your name and your address and your phone number. You had to pay to have an unlisted number.
> 
> Most towns had either pubic or privately financed directories. They had the same information as the phone book with an address cross reference.
> 
> ...


how are the old days of your name and address being listed in the local phonebook any different than having your browsing, buying, watching habits being monitored, sold to advertisers?
ha, there are probably some subtle differences


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dameatball said:


> how are the old days of your name and address being listed in the local phonebook any different than having your browsing, buying, watching habits being monitored, sold to advertisers?
> ha, there are probably some subtle differences


I guess it would depend what the advertisers do with the information, if a web page has an ad under all circumstances when difference does it make if the ad target me or is just general, I purchased a plug strip, now I get ads for plug strips, hay guys I already punched my needed plug strip, I don't need anymore, what the ad going to do for them ?. If I keep getting ADs for what I purchased how does that get more business for the any other co. making that product, unless it a replete purchase product like vitamin pills.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

dameatball said:


> how are the old days of your name and address being listed in the local phonebook any different than having your browsing, buying, watching habits being monitored, sold to advertisers?
> ha, there are probably some subtle differences


In the past I used to get lbs of junk mail a day now I get hundreds of junk emails instead. They both suck.


----------



## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> A couple months ago I was watching something on my TiVo connected to a Samsug smart TV when an ad for Toyota popped up covering about 1/3 of the screen. At firstI thought it was the TiVo, butit stayed even when I went into the TiVo menus and covered part of the menus up. So then I realized it was the TV. Since I use TiVo for everything I have the TV remote stashed away in a box. I had to dig it out of that box to get the stupid ad to go away. Talk about a f*cked up marketing practice. I paid nearly $3,000 for this TV and they're obscuring 1/3 of the screen with an ad that I have no easy way to clear. I searched all the menus and there is no way to turn that off. If it happens again I'm disconnecting the Ethernet cable and never using it's smart features again.


I had this happen on my old Samsung plasma which died last year. In other news, Samsung is listening to your conversations too:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/53837...-discuss-personal-information-front-smart-tvs


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> A couple months ago I was watching something on my TiVo connected to a Samsug smart TV when an ad for Toyota popped up covering about 1/3 of the screen. At firstI thought it was the TiVo, butit stayed even when I went into the TiVo menus and covered part of the menus up. So then I realized it was the TV. Since I use TiVo for everything I have the TV remote stashed away in a box. I had to dig it out of that box to get the stupid ad to go away. Talk about a f*cked up marketing practice. I paid nearly $3,000 for this TV and they're obscuring 1/3 of the screen with an ad that I have no easy way to clear. I searched all the menus and there is no way to turn that off. If it happens again I'm disconnecting the Ethernet cable and never using it's smart features again.


Taking over your TV at some random time, I would think that was illegal, if you were using the smart feature of the TV that may be a different story.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

lessd said:


> Taking over your TV at some random time, I would think that was illegal, if you were using the smart feature of the TV that may be a different story.


I was not. I was watching TiVo and some random Toyota ad popped up and convered 1/4-1/3 of the screen. It really pissed me off at the time.

Now tht we have HBOGo on TiVo I no longer have any use for the smart TV part so I'm just going to disconnect the Ethernet cable and hope it never does this, or the stupid "smart hub has been updated" message, ever again.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Yes I have had questions on the value of "smart" TVs to consumers. Right now it makes sense for UHD/4K TVs because that has been only way to assure the consumer access to a UHD/4K source. But as all the main streaming devices go UHD/4K and UHD Blu-ray players become available we will be the same place we were with 1080p TVs. It is my hope the TV manufactures figure this out. Frankly from my point of view I want a monitor not a TV anyway - heck it doesn't even have to have a speak for all I care. Give me a great UHD picture and don't waist money on all the rest, I am going to have a receiver and other devices anyway.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah I wont be buying another smart TV. When you can buy a device like a Roku or FireTV stick for less then $50 that does the same thing, and more, the value of a smart TV which is hardware locked for the life of the TV is greatly diminished. Although it seems like most TVs these days are smart whether you like it or not, so you may not always have a choice in the matter.


----------



## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

Dan203 said:


> Yeah I wont be buying another smart TV. When you can buy a device like a Roku or FireTV stick for less then $50 that does the same thing, and more, the value of a smart TV which is hardware locked for the life of the TV is greatly diminished. Although it seems like most TVs these days are smart whether you like it or not, so you may not always have a choice in the matter.


I don't disagree with some of thoughts on Smart TV's. I wanted one this time for exactly as posted above, to get some 4K material from other sources that at this time my Roku etc do not get.
However even if I did not want a Smart TV my choices would have been harder. I could have paid much more for a higher model without it, or less for a lower model with less features. This TV was a great fit for what I was looking for in price and features. So I probably would have bought wanting Smart TV or not.


----------



## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I still get better PQ on some apps on my TV than I do with Roku or any other device. The Tivo apps are catching up though with the Bolt.

One thing I do like about the TV is that the sleep timer works. Even though I don't have a internet cap issue, I hate being wasteful, so fall asleep with netflix on is much more satisfying when the TV sleep timer is on and I know that the streaming will stop.


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> A couple months ago I was watching something on my TiVo connected to a Samsung smart TV when an ad for Toyota popped up covering about 1/3 of the screen. At firstI thought, it was the TiVo, but it stayed even when I went into the TiVo menus and covered part of the menus up. So then I realized it was the TV. Since I use TiVo for everything I have the TV remote stashed away in a box. I had to dig it out of that box to get the stupid ad to go away. Talk about a f*cked up marketing practice. I paid nearly $3,000 for this TV and they're obscuring 1/3 of the screen with an ad that I have no easy way to clear. I searched all the menus and there is no way to turn that off. If it happens again I'm disconnecting the Ethernet cable and never using it's smart features again.


I believe there is a menu option to turn it off.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Johncv said:


> I believe there is a menu option to turn it off.


You are correct. Under Apps, Terms & Policy.


----------



## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Yeah I wont be buying another smart TV. When you can buy a device like a Roku or FireTV stick for less then $50 that does the same thing, and more, the value of a smart TV which is hardware locked for the life of the TV is greatly diminished. Although it seems like most TVs these days are smart whether you like it or not, so you may not always have a choice in the matter.


If you want the best picture, a smart TV is going to be hard to avoid. Of course, you can just not connect it to your home network, but then you don't automatically get firmware updates and would miss out on actual improvements to PQ and bug fixes for things like HDMI handshake.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

ncted said:


> If you want the best picture, a smart TV is going to be hard to avoid. Of course, you can just not connect it to your home network, but then you don't automatically get firmware updates and would miss out on actual improvements to PQ and bug fixes for things like HDMI handshake.


If you connected say once a month you would get your updates.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> You are correct. Under Apps, Terms & Policy.


So you just uncheck "Agree" and that makes it so they can't do this?

That's a really shady place to put this "setting". I never would have even known I "agreed" to those services if I hadn't of gone looking.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> So you just uncheck "Agree" and that makes it so they can't do this?
> 
> That's a really shady place to put this "setting". I never would have even known I "agreed" to those services if I hadn't of gone looking.


I happen to buy a small LG and Samsung last month and I remember looking at it during the initial install. I was looking at every screen closely since it is my first TV of those brands. I've never seen any ads and they are connected to the internet full time, but I don't watch either very much.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I only saw an ad that one time. But it's constantly popping up a message about smart hub being updated, which you can only clear with the TVs remote. (or you can wait a minute and it clears on it's own)

Since I'm no longer using the smart feature (TiVo has all the apps I need) I might just pull the Ethernet cable so it can no longer update itself.


----------



## dameatball (Feb 24, 2014)

tivoboy said:


> I'm starting to wonder if it is TIVO or the cableco (comcast in this case) that is inserting the ads based on computer internet searches and websites visited.
> 
> Does that all flow directly via the cablecard that the cableco would own and command?


The ads are served by TiVo, in addition to their customers data as mentioned. Their privacy policy outlines the specifics. It's really long, boring legalese but it's there. 
The company is struggling and trying to generate new revenue streams.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dameatball said:


> The ads are served by TiVo, in addition to their customers data as mentioned. Their privacy policy outlines the specifics. It's really long, boring legalese but it's there.
> The company is struggling and trying to generate new revenue streams.


As long as TiVo ADs don't interfere with my watching of a recorded program I say OK, as TiVo needs any extra revenue.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> This may help. Sony's usually work. Samsung usually doesn't:
> http://www.cnet.com/news/20-tvs-tested-which-sets-can-pass-surround-sound-to-a-sound-bar/
> 
> Every Sony I have used for the past 10 years passes up to DD 5.1 from HDMI to optical. The specs from 2015 models indicates DTS is now passed also.


No idea about optical, but with the ARC, my 2015 Sony UHD Tv will pass 5.1 DD and 5.1 DTS. As well as stereo PCM.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> We used to have these things called phone books. They were distributed to everyone who had a phone. They were provided by the phone company. They included your name and your address and your phone number. You had to pay to have an unlisted number.
> 
> Most towns had either pubic or privately financed directories. They had the same information as the phone book with an address cross reference.
> 
> ...


Used to? We still get phone books where I live. The day I receive it, the phone book goes in the trash.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> In the past I used to get lbs of junk mail a day now I get hundreds of junk emails instead. They both suck.


unfortunately I still get the pounds of junk mail each day. As well as all the junk emails.

Most days my mailbox is full when I get home. With 95% of it junk mail.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> unfortunately I still get the pounds of junk mail each day. As well as all the junk emails.
> 
> Most days my mailbox is full when I get home. With 95% of it junk mail.


I am not sure why all my junk mail stopped, but it did. In a normal week I don't get any mail at all for at least half the days and the other days will be one or 2 pieces, most of which are bills because I refuse to go paperless.


----------



## ncted (May 13, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> I am not sure why all my junk mail stopped, but it did. In a normal week I don't get any mail at all for at least half the days and the other days will be one or 2 pieces, most of which are bills because I refuse to go paperless.


As I get older, I get less junk mail, and what I get has changed. Now that I am nearing my mid-forties, the ED coupons have started. Seriously? Anyway, junk mailers [think they] know who you are, how much you make and spend, and how old you are, and they send accordingly. Demographics of your neighborhood will also affect your junk mail as they change.


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

There are a couple of places you can go to get your name off of certain direct mail lists.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0262-stopping-unsolicited-mail-phone-calls-and-email

Perhaps this TV show will also be of interest to some participating in this thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=538380


----------



## dameatball (Feb 24, 2014)

TonyD79 said:


> I still get better PQ on some apps on my TV than I do with Roku or any other device. The Tivo apps are catching up though with the Bolt.
> 
> One thing I do like about the TV is that the sleep timer works. Even though I don't have a internet cap issue, I hate being wasteful, so fall asleep with netflix on is much more satisfying when the TV sleep timer is on and I know that the streaming will stop.


I think the TiVo apps are abhorrent. Streaming video thru Plex restricts you to the max 720p/4Mb video. With that said it transcodes everything (it may play one file type natively). Pandora freezes/doesn't start. Comcast blames TiVo and vice versa. There aren't a ton of smart tv's that are motivated to keep software current and stocked with decent processors (generalizing). It's marketing to sell a TV. Whereas roku has a vested interest in stating current.


----------

