# Closed captioning issues on Tivo Premiere



## slice1900 (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm hoping Margaret from Tivo or other Tivo employees read this so these issues get some visibility. I am not deaf but hearing impaired, that is I can hear but it requires a lot of concentration to listen to the TV which can get quite exhausting, and the captioning makes it much easier on me.

First of all, I'm concerned about the reports that in the 20.2 software, closed captions no longer appear when using the 1xFF. I've found it extremely handy to use this at times when I'm watching a documentary or news show that is mostly narrative, or to get through slow parts of a movie. This is something I've grown accustomed to as it worked this way on my Tivo 2 for years until I upgraded to the Premiere two years ago. I hope this was removed by accident, and can be restored? Please!!  I don't have 20.2 yet but this is making me dread the day I find it has been installed on my Tivo. If this is going to be fixed I am quite willing to help beta test the new code that gets this fix!

I'm also curious why the closed captioning on the HD channels is often garbled when it is fine on the SD channels. By garbled, I mean letters and words are missing. Sometimes it isn't too bad and I can still make sense of it, occasionally it is so bad it is useless. Some have suggested this can be fixed by disabling digital captions, but while I do occasionally find this helps, it generally does not.

Something else somewhat related I've noticed that is only loosely related to closed captioning, I only noticed it from watching programs at 1xFF and seeing how long it takes. Different channels appear to have different speeds that 1xFF means. On SD channels and most HD channels it appears to be about 3x normal speed. On certain HD channels (one example is BETHD) it is more like 2x. On my local PBS station, at least during programs I watch like Nova, it is more like 1.2x. This isn't really a problem, but I would have assumed that the meanings of the various fast forward speeds would be consistent between channels and wonder if this may indicate some problem with my Premiere's hardware?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> First of all, I'm concerned about the reports that in the 20.2 software, closed captions no longer appear when using the 1xFF. I've found it extremely handy to use this at times when I'm watching a documentary or news show that is mostly narrative, or to get through slow parts of a movie. This is something I've grown accustomed to as it worked this way on my Tivo 2 for years until I upgraded to the Premiere two years ago. I hope this was removed by accident, and can be restored? Please!!  I don't have 20.2 yet but this is making me dread the day I find it has been installed on my Tivo. If this is going to be fixed I am quite willing to help beta test the new code that gets this fix!


Plus a bazillion on this. I use captions on 1xFF ALL THE TIME. Will sorely miss them (I'm still on 14.x). Can't imagine what made them *remove *this feature.

[Aside: I'm deaf, so I share your listening/captioning pains. But at 1xFF, the sound doesn't play, so it's not _really _a deafie issue. Just a captioning/feature issue.]



slice1900 said:


> I'm also curious why the closed captioning on the HD channels is often garbled when it is fine on the SD channels. By garbled, I mean letters and words are missing. Sometimes it isn't too bad and I can still make sense of it, occasionally it is so bad it is useless. Some have suggested this can be fixed by disabling digital captions, but while I do occasionally find this helps, it generally does not.


As you mention, you should permanently disable digital captions, and stick to analog only. Digital captions just aren't reliable yet.

If you have problems on HD and not SD, it is carrier related, not TiVo. It can either be the cable company, or the broadcaster themselves. Example: when I first started watching HD, the local FOX channel had terrible captions, but SD was perfect. In a series of emails with the station manager, then a broadcast technician, they realized they had some equipment in the HD chain that wasn't caption compatible. They fixed it within days. No one knew until I complained.

Again: Disable digital captions. Always, not just when you have issues.



slice1900 said:


> Something else somewhat related I've noticed that is only loosely related to closed captioning, I only noticed it from watching programs at 1xFF and seeing how long it takes. Different channels appear to have different speeds that 1xFF means. On SD channels and most HD channels it appears to be about 3x normal speed. On certain HD channels (one example is BETHD) it is more like 2x. On my local PBS station, at least during programs I watch like Nova, it is more like 1.2x. This isn't really a problem, but I would have assumed that the meanings of the various fast forward speeds would be consistent between channels and wonder if this may indicate some problem with my Premiere's hardware?


This is a known issue (not really a bug, but close). It has something to do with the way each channel sends HD frame rates (or some such techie jargon). Some channels use a certain method which causes the TiVo to not properly 1xFF. For me, it's the local CBS affiliate (which of course, is 50% of what I watch). No other channel has ever done it for me (AFAIK). It is not Premiere related; my first S3 bought years ago still does this.

There is no solution for this at this time.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

From Margaret concerning CC and 1xFF


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## fhuband (Jan 24, 2002)

I don't see Margaret's reply... just the question. What did she say?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

fhuband said:


> I don't see Margaret's reply... just the question. What did she say?


https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/159123890877120512


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

i.e. SOL


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

cherry ghost said:


> https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/159123890877120512


"Yes, technical reason we can't do them in the slowest FF speed any more. Sorry."

That doesn't sound promising for those who liked that feature.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

there was more

https://twitter.com/#!/ascottfalk/status/159124146733858816

https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/159130815975014400


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

cherry ghost said:


> there was more
> 
> https://twitter.com/#!/ascottfalk/status/159124146733858816
> 
> https://twitter.com/#!/tivodesign/status/159130815975014400


I hate this twitter stuff! Little disjunct fragments of info.
Although I love communication from Margret, anyway 
Thanks for sharing


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

If it was technically possible before, how can it not be technically possible now? That's ridiculous. They just don't want to do it.

I think those of you who want this should call TiVo and complain.

(I just tend to dub to my other recorder real time, with captions on, then watch on THAT recorder at 1.5x with sound. I really wish newer recorders would offer play-faster-than-realtime-with-sound[and/or-captions].. I actually use Save to VCR most of the time, but I know that was taken away on Premieres also. I use it mostly to avoid inadvertent remote keypresses from stopping the process.. If I'm recording it 'for keeps' then I'm more careful and/or just download it to computer nowadays.)


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

mattack said:


> (I just tend to dub to my other recorder real time, with captions on, then watch on THAT recorder at 1.5x with sound. I really wish newer recorders would offer play-faster-than-realtime-with-sound[and/or-captions]..)


+1 !!!!! I have suggested that several times. I would *LOVE* to be able to have fast play, perhaps 1.2 to 1.8 speed, in 0.1 increments, with tone-adjusted sound. My DVD player does it and it is a great feature for slow parts of movies that need to get moving.

Might not be possible with the decoder ASICS on the TiVo, though. But then again...


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

mattack said:


> If it was technically possible before, how can it not be technically possible now? That's ridiculous. They just don't want to do it.
> 
> I think those of you who want this should call TiVo and complain.


I call BS on this. What has changed to make this "technically impossible" all of a sudden? Sounds like in all their new coding for V20, they simply left this out and have no intention of adding it back.

This was one of the distinguishing features to me, between cable/TiVo and DirecTV DVRs. I loved watching at 1xFF with captions. :down::down:


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes, I'm sorry, with the Premiere update, Closed Captions no longer appear in the first speed of Fast Forward. I really have fought to get this restored, but my understanding is that it is a technical limitation. I'll try to get more details I can share.

Regarding garbled captions. Turn OFF the "Digital Captions" -- they really are flaky. Leave the Analog Captions on, and things will get better. I believe in the 20.2 release we now prefer the Analog Captions, so users that don't make the change should still see an immediate improvement.

I use Captions frequently, so know that I will always fight for a great caption experience.

--Margret


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## triftraf (Jan 26, 2006)

I always thought the garbled CC was from HBO (as it was the only channel I noticed having problems with) - but turning Digital Captions to none - fixed the issue for me. Thanks for the info!!!


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

TiVoMargret said:


> Regarding garbled captions. Turn OFF the "Digital Captions" -- they really are flaky. Leave the Analog Captions on, and things will get better. I believe in the 20.2 release we now prefer the Analog Captions, so users that don't make the change should still see an immediate improvement.


Kinda begs the question - If they are known to be flaky, why not disable digital captions by default?


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> Yes, I'm sorry, with the Premiere update, Closed Captions no longer appear in the first speed of Fast Forward. I really have fought to get this restored, but my understanding is that it is a technical limitation. I'll try to get more details I can share.
> 
> Regarding garbled captions. Turn OFF the "Digital Captions" -- they really are flaky. Leave the Analog Captions on, and things will get better. I believe in the 20.2 release we now prefer the Analog Captions, so users that don't make the change should still see an immediate improvement.
> 
> ...


Margret,

I appreciate your efforts to try and get CC back. Although it is not supposed to be technically feasible to do this, I have to wonder if it would be possible if we were willing to give up some other new feature. I mean, I for one, would almost be willing to consider giving up two of the four tuners if it came to that, because my other Tivos can always double as extra tuners, especially with MRS enabled. This is a very important feature, and if there are possible technical tradeoffs, I for one would be interested in knowing.

Otherwise, it's disheartening to see Tivo take this step backward. Especially when you consider all of the hearing-impaired users who be VERY affected. Has Tivo considered the impact on them?

Rob from AZ


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

AZrob said:


> [...]Otherwise, it's disheartening to see Tivo take this step backward. Especially when you consider all of the hearing-impaired users who be VERY affected. Has Tivo considered the impact on them?


I agree that it is unfortunate that the CC while FF is gone and probably not coming back. But you can't appeal for it based on "hearing-impaired users" because sound is not present, either, when you 1xFF... it never was. So non-hearing-impaired users were not missing any audio. ALL users who use CC are affected, hearing-impaired or not.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

TiVoMargret said:


> Yes, I'm sorry, with the Premiere update, Closed Captions no longer appear in the first speed of Fast Forward. I really have fought to get this restored, but my understanding is that it is a technical limitation. I'll try to get more details I can share.
> 
> Regarding garbled captions. Turn OFF the "Digital Captions" -- they really are flaky. Leave the Analog Captions on, and things will get better. I believe in the 20.2 release we now prefer the Analog Captions, so users that don't make the change should still see an immediate improvement.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your (much politer) response to my post. :up:


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

bbrown9 said:


> Kinda begs the question


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I call BS on this. What has changed to make this "technically impossible" all of a sudden? Sounds like in all their new coding for V20, they simply left this out and have no intention of adding it back.


The only thing I can think of is that the new graphics for the playback bar are not compatible with the CC text so both can't be displayed at once. Of course there's an easy fix for that which is to only display the CC text when the bar isn't showing (if that's the problem).


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## bbrown9 (Mar 12, 2011)

mattack said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question


seriously?

I was using the "modern usage" as documented in the last paragraph on that page. A statement was made that caused a rather obvious (to me anyway) question to be raised. It seemed so obvious, it was as if the statement was "asking" for someone to raise the question - thus it "begged the question".

I'm sorry that you don't like that usage but I stand by it.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

morac said:


> The only thing I can think of is that the new graphics for the playback bar are not compatible with the CC text so both can't be displayed at once. Of course there's an easy fix for that which is to only display the CC text when the bar isn't showing (if that's the problem).


 Doesn't explain why it doesn't work in SDUI either though.


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## slice1900 (Dec 2, 2005)

An idea occurred to me. This if feature isn't coming back as it sounds like is unfortunately the case, maybe buying a used Tivo series 3 would help? From what I understand, it will not get the 20.2 update, it is stuck on whatever version it is on now. Although I have only the one Tivo, as I understand it, if you have more than one it is possible to record on one Tivo and watch on another.

Would this work between a series 3 and Premiere even if they are running different versions of Tivo software? If so, I could buy a used series 3 and transfer the programs I wanted to watch at 1xFF to it and still be able to watch with captions. I wouldn't even need another cablecard since I wouldn't have any reason to record programs with this Tivo. To those who have multiple Tivos, does this sound feasible or am I misunderstanding what is possible?

Yeah, I know, it sounds silly to buy another Tivo just for this purpose, but it looks like I have no choice other than to abandon Tivo for the cable company's DVR. It is kind of crappy, but is less crappy than it was a couple years ago, and it does have the ability to show captions at twice normal playback speed.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

I don't understand how it was technically possible before and isn't now. The hardware hasn't changed. This is a huge step back in functionality for me, I use 1xFF all the time. I'll never use the HD menus, they're slower and I don't like the picture-in-picture. I'd just like my TiVo to keep working the way it did when I bought it.

My HD stopped working this week so I'm left with just this box. Very unhappy.
I'll have to see if I can get my HD or my S3 resurrected for less than an obscene amount of money.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Call Tivo and tell them this.


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## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

Wow that sucks. Sure is handy to FF thru stuff when you want to hear what they are saying - like the boring parts of a sporting event.

If I was hearing impaired I would demand a refund of my purchase price of the Premiere or a replacement with equivalent capacity S3/HD.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

ADent said:


> If I was hearing impaired I would demand a refund of my purchase price of the Premiere or a replacement with equivalent capacity S3/HD.


Again:
I agree that it is unfortunate that the CC while FF is gone and probably not coming back. But you can't appeal for it based on "hearing-impaired users" because sound is not present, either, when you 1xFF... it never was. So non-hearing-impaired users were not missing any audio. ALL people who use CC and FF are affected by this change, hearing-impaired or not.


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## rambler (Dec 3, 2005)

I just got my update and poked around this forum to learn more - I am terribly upset at the loss of ability to watch in FF with the captions on!!!! And what a crock, saying it is no longer possible!! Undo the "improvement" that now makes it impossible!!!!


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## drweb (Sep 17, 2008)

I just want to add to this thread. Sorry Margaret isn't successful at TiVo, and I'm not how or if they can fix this in the future. They *should,* and here's why. It's a feature and added advantage for their product and software --IF they bring it back. There's no real technical limitation I can imagine; the CCs are encoded, they just need to display them. Yes, I'd take them in Standard Mode.
Think about it. We use TiVo because we love TV, watch a *lot* of TV, but we are busy, life is busy, life is busy. We sometimes need to see a show but can't take all the time to watch it at PLAY speed. Fast Forward exists for a reason --we need to move through the content FASTER. That's why FF exists. So, with sound not available, we NEED to see what's being said. My old Series 3 retired now, and when I went to Premiere XL a week ago, I never thought this feature would disappear. It doesn't fit TiVo users needs to eliminate this option. Please restore it in a future update. And, yes, for the hearing-impaired, this is a special service TiVo can restore to those users. I can't imagine how hard this change is on them...
My $.02...
DrWeb


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

drweb said:


> I just want to add to this thread. Sorry Margaret isn't successful at TiVo, and I'm not how or if they can fix this in the future. They *should,* and here's why. It's a feature and added advantage for their product and software --IF they bring it back. There's no real technical limitation I can imagine; the CCs are encoded, they just need to display them. Yes, I'd take them in Standard Mode.
> Think about it. We use TiVo because we love TV, watch a *lot* of TV, but we are busy, life is busy, life is busy. We sometimes need to see a show but can't take all the time to watch it at PLAY speed. Fast Forward exists for a reason --we need to move through the content FASTER. That's why FF exists. So, with sound not available, we NEED to see what's being said. My old Series 3 retired now, and when I went to Premiere XL a week ago, I never thought this feature would disappear. It doesn't fit TiVo users needs to eliminate this option. Please restore it in a future update. And, yes, for the hearing-impaired, this is a special service TiVo can restore to those users. I can't imagine how hard this change is on them...
> My $.02...
> DrWeb


I agree that CC during FF is a significant feature, especially for the hearing-impaired. I can imagine that there could be some technical limitation associated with the exact method used to extract the CC data from the overall data stream. Maybe the module doing the extracting only sees an interrupted stream now, for example. But it would be worth some effort to bring this feature back.

As for needing to skim through some content faster, it would be even better if TiVo could implement some pitch-preserving way of giving us sound during faster operations. My old Panasonic DMR-EH50 (DVD recorder with hard drive) could do that, using a special 1.5x play mode as I recall. A similar turbo-play-with-audio mode would be a great selling point for TiVo.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

L David Matheny said:


> I agree that CC during FF is a significant feature, especially for the hearing-impaired.


I hate to keep bringing this up but.... There has NEVER been sound during FF, so it has nothing to do with being a feature that is better for those who are hearing-impaired. It would be a great feature to have back again, but for everyone, equally.


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## rambler (Dec 3, 2005)

Hello Brian,

Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I would be glad to help you with this closed captioning issue. The "feature" that you are referring to is something that was causing issues in other areas and was something that we needed to take care of for the overall performance to go up. I apologize if you enjoyed that little glitch but it will not be coming back. Hope you have a wonderful day!

120204-xxxxxx is the reference number for this inquiry. Please refer to this number if you choose to contact us again regarding this request. In order to respond to this email, please log into your account at www.tivo.com/mysupport. Replies directly to this email will not be received.

Sincerely,
Kord

TiVo Customer Support Representative
www.tivo.com/support


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## rambler (Dec 3, 2005)

Well thanks for nothing Kord. I won't be having a wonderful day. Still have a hard time believing there isn't a simple fix for this.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> I agree that CC during FF is a significant feature, especially for the hearing-impaired. I can imagine that there could be some technical limitation associated with the exact method used to extract the CC data from the overall data stream. Maybe the module doing the extracting only sees an interrupted stream now, for example. But it would be worth some effort to bring this feature back.
> 
> As for needing to skim through some content faster, it would be even better if TiVo could implement some pitch-preserving way of giving us sound during faster operations. My old Panasonic DMR-EH50 (DVD recorder with hard drive) could do that, using a special 1.5x play mode as I recall. A similar turbo-play-with-audio mode would be a great selling point for TiVo.


I disagree. I'm hearing impaired and that feature is useless to me. If there were audio it would be different. If you're not hearing impaired, how do you know it would be useful to those of us who are?

I am much more interested in getting accurate, reliable closed captioning.


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## mizsydney (Nov 12, 2010)

"I apologize if you enjoyed that little glitch but it will not be coming back. Hope you have a wonderful day!"

maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time NOT hearing sarcasm in that little tidbit.

let me put it to you this way, 'Kord'. had I known that incredibly useful "little glitch" was going away, I never would have bothered to upgrade to the Premiere. nor would I have renewed my Tivo service. and if I'd known about Tivo's bad attitude towards the hearing impaired, I would have dropped Tivo much sooner. 

way to treat your disabled users, Tivo.


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## atotic (Dec 23, 2007)

My wife will greatly miss this feature, and only half as many cooking shows will be watched. Half of her watching is FF/CC style.

If there were any good alternatives to Tivo, this would make us jump ship.

Aleks


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## orinaccio (Sep 18, 2003)

I have a number of observations.

I will preface them by saying that everyone in my family is profoundly hearing impaired, and we use two Series 3 (i.e. not Premiere units) Tivo boxes.

1) The ability to watch programming with captions at 1.5 FF is a favorite feature for my family. For this reason we are going to hang onto the Series 3 Tivo units a while longer.

2) It is apparent that this has become a feature to which many have grown accustomed. Judging from some of the strong reactions here, it may have become a preferred method of viewing some types of programs (e.g. news, sports, talk shows, etc).

3) it is a unique feature unlike other DVRs on the market (as far as I know).

4) it is a unique feature in that it has benefitted only those that have captions turned on (audio is turned off during 1.5 FF), so many did not know about it.

Regardless, the fact that only captioning-users enjoyed this feature is irrelevant, and the question of whether it is "fair" is a red herring. Hearing people can enjoy the news by listening and not needing to look at the television screen, so arguing over whether it is fair or a feature not available to others, is pointless. It happens to be one feature that came into popular use by a segment of Tivo users, just like other Tivo features (such as Pandora, wifi networking, etc) are popular with or usable only by limited segments of the Tivo using community.

5) However, it is pretty clear that this feature was not an intentional feature but an accidental byproduct of the Tivo code as it was written. For instance, I have never seen this feature advertised or touted in any of Tivo's promotional or product materials or manuals.

6) If it comes down to choosing between captioning quality vs. 1.5 FF/CC, the importance of captioning quality beats the 1.5 FF/CC feature hands down.

The captioning quality on my Tivos with Verizon FIOS service (cable cards) is mixed at best (especially on HD channels), with frequent issues with captioning quality such as poor timing, missing words/lines, and garbled captions.

If the 1.5 FF/CC feature was/is interfering with the ability to provide solid, reliable, and quality captioning, then Tivo is right to remove the code that caused the unintended 1.5 FF/CC feature (and was in fact probably required by FCC regulations to do so).

I understand some are disputing or challenging whether captioning quality could have been affected by 1.5 FF/CC, however in the absence of technical evidence otherwise I see no reason to dispute Tivo's version of this matter.

In fact, if the captioning quality is demonstrably improved as a result of the changes being made to the Tivo code, I would consider it a very compelling incentive to upgrade my Series 3 HD units to Premiere units.

7) Finally - Even if #6 is correct, I would nevertheless urge Tivo's software division to consider making this feature available once again, perhaps with 1.5 speed audio as well. This feature unquestionably improves the "quality of life" of the viewer, and I would encourage Tivo to view peoples reactions to this change as an opportunity to consider introducing a new (and intended!) feature that differentiates it from other DVRs on the market (see #3 above). ​
My closing observation would be to urge people to remain civil. The fact that Tivo responded to this concern both on twitter and here on the forum should be welcomed and applauded even though the information was a disappointment. Reading their statements as anything other than sincere efforts to communicate, I think is overreaching.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

orinaccio said:


> If it comes down to choosing between captioning quality vs. 1.5 FF/CC, the importance of captioning quality beats the 1.5 FF/CC feature hands down.
> 
> The captioning quality on my Tivos with Verizon FIOS service (cable cards) is mixed at best (especially on HD channels), with frequent issues with captioning quality such as poor timing, missing words/lines, and garbled captions.
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> I understand some are disputing or challenging whether captioning quality could have been affected by 1.5 FF/CC, however in the absence of technical evidence otherwise I see no reason to dispute Tivo's version of this matter.


To the best of my knowledge, and I have followed every thread & post about this issue, TiVo has never stated that captioning quality had anything to do with their decision to remove 1xFF captioning. We were told technical issues related to the new code/update was the reason.

The captioning issues you have are specific to you. Could be FiOS, could be your connection, could be anything. I have excellent, almost perfect captions on both my S3s and my Elite.



orinaccio said:


> 7) Finally - Even if #6 is correct, I would nevertheless urge Tivo's software division to consider making this feature available once again, perhaps with 1.5 speed audio as well. This feature unquestionably improves the "quality of life" of the viewer, and I would encourage Tivo to view peoples reactions to this change as an opportunity to consider introducing a new (and intended!) feature that differentiates it from other DVRs on the market (see #3 above).


Absolutely 100% agree. Well said.


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## orinaccio (Sep 18, 2003)

astrohip said:


> To the best of my knowledge, and I have followed every thread & post about this issue, TiVo has never stated that captioning quality had anything to do with their decision to remove 1xFF captioning. We were told technical issues related to the new code/update was the reason.
> 
> The captioning issues you have are specific to you. Could be FiOS, could be your connection, could be anything. I have excellent, almost perfect captions on both my S3s and my Elite.
> .


You know what - you are right. I went back and reviewed their posts/tweets and while they say the feature caused technical problems they did not say specifically that the technical issues were captioning related (which it could be, they simply did not specify what kind of issues they were).

As for the captioning issues - Ive seen many others complain and assumed my situation was identical, but if you are experiencing decent quality captions it may be time for me to give Verizon a call. Its a little frustrating when you do not know whether the issue is Tivo related or the cable provider-related - it becomes a game of "who do you call"? I'll probably just send a notice to both.


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

orinaccio said:


> You know what - you are right. I went back and reviewed their posts/tweets and while they say the feature caused technical problems they did not say specifically that the technical issues were captioning related (which it could be, they simply did not specify what kind of issues they were).
> 
> As for the captioning issues - Ive seen many others complain and assumed my situation was identical, but if you are experiencing decent quality captions it may be time for me to give Verizon a call. Its a little frustrating when you do not know whether the issue is Tivo related or the cable provider-related - it becomes a game of "who do you call"? I'll probably just send a notice to both.


At the risk of repeating info mentioned several times in this forum already - turn off digital captions, use analog only.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

PedjaR said:


> At the risk of repeating info mentioned several times in this forum already - turn off digital captions, use analog only.


Margaret posted earlier in this thread that analog captions are now preferred over digital ones (since they are rarely correct) so I don't think that's necessary anymore.


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## arizon (Apr 16, 2010)

morac said:


> Margaret posted earlier in this thread that analog captions are now preferred over digital ones (since they are rarely correct) so I don't think that's necessary anymore.


Until everyone is aware of the fact that there are two types of captioning (Analog vs. Digital) we can't expect those posting of garbled captioning to know that. I for one, learned this on the various threads on this forum. 

Finally, I think that orinaccio's post provides the best analysis of the 20.2 CC issue and for that I thank him. At this point, let's hope that Margret gives us more information on the issue; and for going to bat for us, I thank her too. :up:

--Arizon


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

I have FIOS and captioning got a lot better when I turned off the digital captions. FIOS' cable box always has perfect captions, even when the Tivos are having trouble.


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## orinaccio (Sep 18, 2003)

Actually I was well aware of the analog vs. digital captioning differences after some experimenting a year or so back. 

It wasnt until this thread that I realized that my situation may be unique in that switching to standard doesnt always solve my captioning quality issues. 

In fact there are some channels where captioning quality is so bad on standard that switching to digital captions were a better solution. 

The net result is that as I flip channels to watch different shows, I will also have to change the captioning setting from analog to digital or vice versa. A bit annoying, I know. 

For the most part, standard captions does seem to perform better, but I am still seeing issues with timing & missing words/lines from time to time. In fact when I extract the captions as a .SRT (subtitle) file, you can see where the problems are. Some words get transposed or overlapped, and some captions have a duration of a few milliseconds (i.e. barely noticeable as a blip, if at all) when normally caption dialogues have a duration of 2-3 seconds. 

Sorry to take this subject off on a tangent but I just wanted to mention that I was well aware of analog vs. digital solution, and that in my case, oddly, this solution does not really address all of the captioning issues that Im seeing. 

Clearly its time to get Verizon involved in my case.


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## villager-li (Sep 7, 2008)

Hello, hopefully i can get some help here. With the latest Premiere service update, captions for Showtime HD stopped working, they are now garbled. I used to have problems with Showtime and had to set digital captioning to DTVCC1 while all other channels had to have digital captions set to None. Annoying to have to change them all the time but I dealt with it. Now Showtime captions are completely broken. However, on my older Tivo HD box the captioning behavior works just fine like it always did. I am trying to work this issue with Tivo support but they tell me its a problem with my provider. From my perspective, it worked before the update, now it does not, therefore a Tivo problem. Can anyone help?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

villager-li said:


> Hello, hopefully i can get some help here. With the latest Premiere service update, captions for Showtime HD stopped working, they are now garbled. I used to have problems with Showtime and had to set digital captioning to DTVCC1 while all other channels had to have digital captions set to None. Annoying to have to change them all the time but I dealt with it. Now Showtime captions are completely broken. However, on my older Tivo HD box the captioning behavior works just fine like it always did. I am trying to work this issue with Tivo support but they tell me its a problem with my provider. From my perspective, it worked before the update, now it does not, therefore a Tivo problem. Can anyone help?


 TiVo can't blame your provider if the same channel works fine on your THD but not on your Premiere... For really conclusive proof you could switch box locations and verify the Premiere still has the problem, then they have no leg to stand on regarding some kind of signal issue either.


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