# Revolution - 10/15/12 "Soul Train"



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

This was actually a fairly good episode, until they stupidly decided to go after the bomb on the train instead of freeing Danny. The explosion would have taken out the engine, but I doubt it would have take out the passenger cars. At worst the train would derail, but that's survivable. If Miles and Charlie had went after Danny it would also be a non-issue.

It's a shame because the episode gave us trains, bikes and cars pulled by oxen. Pretty much everything people were complaining about and then they had to go and make Miles stupid. Charlie I could understand, but Miles is ex-military. It was simply a bad tactic.

At least they gave the captain a back story and the twist with his son was nice.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

So, there are 12 of those amulets? I wonder if each by itself turns on power within a small area, but if all 12 were used together, they would turn all the electricity back on? Or, maybe they are each held by members of some sort of group who worked for the Defense Department on a project that went wrong?

Dave


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I have to agree that it seemed like the IQ of Miles and company dropped about 30 points in this episode.

The aforementioned "just get Danny off the train" solution was the piece de resistance of bad decisions which started off with Charlie attempting to follow Neville herself instead of letting Miles know.

Not to mention letting Lover Boy escape like that and not realizing he was Neville's son (I picked up on the expression on Neville's face. Why didn't the super slick Miles?).

Oh and "Ken Hutchinson"?
Really?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

morac said:


> This was actually a fairly good episode, until they stupidly decided to go after the bomb on the train instead of freeing Danny. The explosion would have taken out the engine, but I doubt it would have take out the passenger cars. At worst the train would derail, but that's survivable. If Miles and Charlie had went after Danny it would also be a non-issue.
> 
> It's a shame because the episode gave us trains, bikes and cars pulled by oxen. Pretty much everything people were complaining about and then they had to go and make Miles stupid. Charlie I could understand, but Miles is ex-military. It was simply a bad tactic.
> 
> At least they gave the captain a back story and the twist with his son was nice.


A derailed train is survivable, but it will also kill and injure people. And without the medical procedures they had with electricity, even non life threatening injuries today could be fatal in their TV show world. I wouldn't think you would risk the train derailing and Danny getting killed or injured. I know I would never want to take the chance of being in a train during derailment. You can't guarantee the outcome of who survives and who lives.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> A derailed train is survivable, but it will also kill and injure people. And without the medical procedures they had with electricity, even non life threatening injuries today could be fatal in their TV show world. I wouldn't think you would risk the train derailing and Danny getting killed or injured. I know I would never want to take the chance of being in a train during derailment. You can't guarantee the outcome of who survives and who lives.


Yet, they can safely jump/be thrown from the same train. I guess it can be argued they wouldn't have known the train would be moving so slowly, but during a derailment the train would immediately begin slowing and at the speed depicted in the show would be very survivable.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> A derailed train is survivable, but it will also kill and injure people. And without the medical procedures they had with electricity, even non life threatening injuries today could be fatal in their TV show world. I wouldn't think you would risk the train derailing and Danny getting killed or injured. I know I would never want to take the chance of being in a train during derailment. You can't guarantee the outcome of who survives and who lives.


See what Flop said. Also the Captain was the only guy guarding Danny. Instead of sending Charlie to get beat up, if both Miles and Charlie had gone to rescue Danny, they would have been off the train before the bomb exploded.

Like I said it was a bad plan all around and the only reason it was done that way was because the writers didn't want Danny to be rescued. I can understand that, but they should have implemented it better instead of making Miles stupid.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

morac said:


> The explosion would have taken out the engine, but I doubt it would have take out the passenger cars.


Back in the days of steam engines, boiler explosions were a serious problem and would kill more than just the 2(?) people in the locomotive.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

I'd like to see that old steam locomotive make it to Philadelphia with just one tender of wood for fuel, and no water tank for water. Ain't gonna happen.

Dave


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

squint said:


> Back in the days of steam engines, boiler explosions were a serious problem and would kill more than just the 2(?) people in the locomotive.


Technically it wouldn't be a boiler explosion since the explosion would be external, but assuming the entire train exploded in a giant fireball, see my point about just grabbing Danny and leaving.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

Boilers were pretty finicky and would often blow up on their own, killing dozens of people. Even a small explosion in the firebox would likely cause the boiler to explode.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

How did Miles know which log had the explosives?

That was a weird Philadelphia skyline. City Hall was there but I didn't recognize anything else.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

Someone needs to tell the makeup people on this show that everyone doesn't have purple lips.

Dave


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Totally agree with the OP about the explosion. It would have disabled the locomotive, and possibly derailed the train, but other than that, it would not have done anything to the other cars being pulled. If Miles was so concerned about the bomb killing Danny, he would have been better off just decoupling the cars behind the tender rather than climbing over the tender, fighting with the engineer, and risking his life by reaching into the fire to pull out the bomb.

But it was good to see that someone has a train working. What was that conversation with Monroe and one of his sidekicks about getting a Blackhawk helicopter? How did he expect to get it airborne? Seems that if you had the ability to get a helicopter airborne, you'd also have dozens of other advantages that would help you take over the territories. You wouldn't need the actual utility of the helicopter.

Also, very interesting that Monroe's republic is much larger than we originally thought. He's got most of the upper midwest and northeast, and he's fighting with whoever has control of the enitre South. It basically sounds like they're trying to recreate the Civil War.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> It basically sounds like they're trying to recreate the Civil War.


A lot of the look and feel of the cast, tents, totally give me a civil war vibe.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

I feel like each episode is getting progressively worse, although the ratings remain rock-solid. 

The only parts about the eps that I am enjoying are the flashbacks.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> What was that conversation with Monroe and one of his sidekicks about getting a Blackhawk helicopter? How did he expect to get it airborne? Seems that if you had the ability to get a helicopter airborne, you'd also have dozens of other advantages that would help you take over the territories. You wouldn't need the actual utility of the helicopter.


Two of Monroe's neighboring republics have forged an alliance and are now attacking his republic, so he was lamenting that if he had a _working_ Blackhawk helicopter he could wipe them both out and take over North America. It seems his only option at this point is to get electricity working, which is why he's going to all these lengths all the sudden.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

I can't help but think they picked Noblesville, Indiana, as a location solely because someone Googled for places in Indiana that have a train museum.



DevdogAZ said:


> Also, very interesting that Monroe's republic is much larger than we originally thought. He's got most of the upper midwest and northeast, and he's fighting with whoever has control of the enitre South. It basically sounds like they're trying to recreate the Civil War.


I actually fixated on that map more than I did the train...

...but mainly because of how good it looked. I guess Monroe found the one person still alive who could draw a map without a CAD program, do lettering without a desktop publishing program, and run a hand-operated multicolor offset printing press.


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

I am now officially rooting against our hapless heroes. I can't believe the number of bad decisions they make in order to prolong their quest to save Danny. 

Such an interesting idea going to waste.


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## klj (Feb 26, 2010)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I feel like each episode is getting progressively worse,....


i agree 100%

i am watching purely for the "car wreck" effect at this point. it's great. this show is horrible and getting worse.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

morac said:


> Two of Monroe's neighboring republics have forged an alliance and are now attacking his republic,


They seem to have forgotten the definition of "republic." I wonder if the others are dictatorships too, or if they actually have representative governments and are trying to get rid of the madman in the north.

Pretty obvious that the guy was his son, and how did he escape from the 4 of them when just a few days ago Miles could take on a whole army by himself? I thought he would escape from Google guy--that would make sense. So at some point he's going to see Juliet's drawing and tell them Google guy has an amulet.

If the 12 of them "turn on the power" then would everybody have it? That isn't really what they want, they want to only have power themselves. Why are they so sure it would work that way?


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> They seem to have forgotten the definition of "republic." I wonder if the others are dictatorships too, or if they actually have representative governments and are trying to get rid of the madman in the north.


They use it in the same way that N. Korea uses it: Democratic People's Rebublic of Korea.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I see in the preliminary ratings, Revolution is up 13% from last week. Plus it has also been one of the shows this year to receive a huge jump in ratings once DVR viewing is added. (Over a 60% increase in the ratings once DVR viewing is added)
If those numbers stick in the final tally then that is great news considering it was the fourth episode.

I know I have been enjoying the show. Although I think part of that enjoyment is coming to this Now Playing Forum to see what people say about each episode.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Yeah, I didn't get how he knew which log it was either.


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Wasn't it obvious? It was the log that looked like a bomb. Duh!


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

It was a whole log while the rest were quartered and you could see the insides. I'm not sure of the proper terms. Also, it had a big patch on one end.

It would have stood out to someone specifically looking for a bomb but not the guy feeding the boiler or a TSA agent.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Well, it's informative to learn that a horse can catch up with a locomotive, even though the train had a good head start. I'm sure it helps if the horses are already saddled and no one minds you taking them.

If Danny is so important to Monroe, why is Cap'n Neville taking a chance on damaging him ?

I see that Katniss is now using the same Scooby Doo I'm-so-stupid-my-head's-gonna-fall-off expression that Warehouse 13's Myka is so fond of.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

How much better would this show be if "Hutch" were "The Hutch?"


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

The Soul Train was going to Philidelphia, I just now got it. RIP, Don Cornelius.

Since the train is so valuable to Monroe, it's kind of nonsensical that they'd operate it with just one guy in the locomotive. There should have been a fireman in addition to the engineer.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Great episode!
Really gave us a LOT of info and direction:
Trains, bikes, horse drawn vehicles, a great map and info on other republics.

I did love that Texas still decided to be called Texas....I wouldn't imagine it any other way


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

I don't buy Nora's actions. She goes off on her own to blow up the train, knowing full well that Danny might be on it, yet as soon as she sees that he _is_ on it, she wants to run out and undo it (probably blowing her cover in the process)? Seemed kind of forced to me.

Oh and speaking of covers: wouldn't someone have noticed that the local book-shop guy is suddenly running around in a militia uniform?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I'm just curious, but at what point do all of these people who hate the show and just come here to complain week after week....become Threadcrappers and I can start complaining about them? Next week?


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Pretty obvious that the guy was his son, and how did he escape from the 4 of them when just a few days ago Miles could take on a whole army by himself? I thought he would escape from Google guy--that would make sense. So at some point he's going to see Juliet's drawing and tell them Google guy has an amulet.


Because if he didn't get away Danny could have been saved and the quest would be over. Same reason Charlie followed Neville and got busted. She had to blow their cover so the train would leave early so they could botch the moving train rescue.

Also, Jason knows where one of the amulets is, how would Monroe find out Google Guy has one if he was still captive?

They have a story to prolong here people.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I'm just curious, but at what point do all of these people who hate the show and just come here to complain week after week....become Threadcrappers and I can start complaining about them? Next week?


At least nobody's called Charlie ugly in this week's thread yet.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Johnny Dancing said:


> They have a story to prolong here people.


Yes they do, but they should prolong it with good writing. It's like they wrote themselves into a corner and couldn't figure out what to do next.

Writer 1: We need Jason to tell tell Monroe about the amulet.
Writer 2: But, he's locked in a cage.
Writer 1: How about if we have the main characters let him out of his cage to talk to him and he jumps up on to a rafter and disappears?
Writer 2: Genius!


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## Johnny Dancing (Sep 3, 2000)

pmyers said:


> I'm just curious, but at what point do all of these people who hate the show and just come here to complain week after week....become Threadcrappers and I can start complaining about them? Next week?


I think you need to give people 4 or 5 episodes to evaluate the show and talk about why it is good or bad in their mind. If at that point someone still thinks it is bad they probably will stop watching and stop posting (in a perfect world).

Of course you still have the so bad it's good people {think 'Revenge'}. I think I will fall into that category but probably won't post because complaining about bad plot devices would just be redundant.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Johnny Dancing said:


> I think you need to give people 4 or 5 episodes to evaluate the show and talk about why it is good or bad in their mind. If at that point someone still thinks it is bad they probably will stop watching and stop posting (in a perfect world).
> 
> Of course you still have the so bad it's good people {think 'Revenge'}. I think I will fall into that category but probably won't post because complaining about bad plot devices would just be redundant.


Overall, I like the show, and will continue watching it. But that doesn't mean I won't complain about the bad plot devices.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Johnny Dancing said:


> I think you need to give people 4 or 5 episodes to evaluate the show and talk about why it is good or bad in their mind.


This is *kinda* me. It's not a very good show, but I keep watching thinking _this _episode will be the one that turns the corner.

But it wasn't...

I thought this was some of the crappiest writing I've ever seen. The writers seem to have left common sense in the crapper, and just write whatever they want to move the scenes along. And Katniss is so bad (acting AND writing) that it's becoming painful to watch. And yet I do... 

The scene where she tells Uncle Miles she remembers him as a fun-loving, smiling, life-is-good kinda guy. And what happened to that guy? DUH! How 'bout our world got thrown out the door, and a new world replaced it. A world where people struggle to survive, and can't always laugh away their troubles. Jeez, I can't take much more of her. Does she really think unicorns are still dancing around the rainbow?

I also love how these characters, one of whom must be very well known (Miles--former leader of the Militia) just walk around town how-do-you-do, no hat or coverup, no attempt to stay discreet.

One more week. I promise, one more week. If it doesn't dramatically improve, I won't threadcrap, I'll just quietly drift away.


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## rorrim (Jun 21, 2005)

I'm pretty much on the fence. It's a good enough show to watch, but it certainly isn't a great show that I am likely to pine over years after it is cancelled. Still, I look forward to watching it when I see a show in my "Now Playing" list.

I think the acting and writing are pretty much middle of the road. When compared to other science fiction shows, that pretty much puts it in the middle of the pack if not a little higher.

I'm not concerned about the lack of science as long as I am entertained and it doesn't get any more wonky than it already is. 

Also, Elizabeth Mitchell is in it


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

This show frustrates me just as Lost did....which I also loved.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

allan said:


> Overall, I like the show, and will continue watching it. But that doesn't mean I won't complain about the bad plot devices.


This.

I like the show as well, but I have a low tolerance for stupid technical things, which could just as easily be done correctly and not add any production costs to the budget.

Dave


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

trainman said:


> I can't help but think they picked Noblesville, Indiana, as a location solely because someone Googled for places in Indiana that have a train museum.


And they have a steam locomotive (which I posted about back in the Ep 3 thread with the discussion on trains). Too bad they couldn't have used shots of the actual locomotive, the Nickel Plate 587.

I've never had a TV show be in a setting so close to my home. That isn't even remotely close to what Noblesville looks like  Not like I expect them to film on location, but it would have been cool to see places I recognize.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

kettledrum said:


> I've never had a TV show be in a setting so close to my home. That isn't even remotely close to what Noblesville looks like


The town looked like an old west town. They seem to be filming a lot of things like they belong in the civil war era. Monroe's camp (tents especially), we had a firing line in one episode, the soldiers uniforms look like wool union uniforms from the civil war. If the "rebel" military uniforms look like gray coats I'm going cry form laughing too hard.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I wish they would have shown us how the message that they were going to board the train, got to Monroe in Philly: horse, bird, etc.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

They sent a raven.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm just happy the train wasn't blown up.

High-res version of the map:


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

wmcbrine said:


> I'm just happy the train wasn't blown up.
> 
> High-res version of the map:


I imagine there's plenty of available real estate in Wasteland.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I notice that the Monroe Republic is the only one named after a person. The others are named after locations: California, Plains States, Texas and Georgia. That makes me wonder if the other republics are actual republics. That would explain banding together to take on Monroe.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

morac said:


> I notice that the Monroe Republic is the only one named after a person. The others are named after locations: California, Plains States, Texas and Georgia. That makes me wonder if the other republics are actual republics. That would explain banding together to take on Monroe.


_Techincally_ Georgia was named after King George II of England. So both Monroe and Georgia are named after a person. 
I like how they pretty much ignore Canada on the map by the way, except for where these republics creep in. No respect. Mexico might be too far away for Monroe to care about, but they're pretty much ignored too.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

morac said:


> I notice that the Monroe Republic is the only one named after a person. The others are named after locations: California, Plains States, Texas and Georgia. That makes me wonder if the other republics are actual republics. That would explain banding together to take on Monroe.


Good point. I just wonder what Monroe offers that the people are willing to accept his dictatorship. Do the majority of the people see him as good?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

pmyers said:


> I did love that Texas still decided to be called Texas....I wouldn't imagine it any other way


I like that it is even bigger now having taken over the majority of Oklahoma and Louisiana.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

The special log reminded me of Back to the Future III.

The shot of Elizabeth Mitchell's body silhouetted through her sheer shirt reminded me of why I watch ridiculous shows with Elizabeth Mitchell in them. (Speaking of, where pic?)


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## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

steve614 said:


> I like that it is even bigger now having taken over the majority of Oklahoma and Louisiana.


Those of us in OK are more or less Texans at heart anyways. Well, except when OSU/OU plays those lesser schools from TX.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

trainman said:


> I can't help but think they picked Noblesville, Indiana, as a location solely because someone Googled for places in Indiana that have a train museum.





kettledrum said:


> And they have a steam locomotive (which I posted about back in the Ep 3 thread with the discussion on trains). Too bad they couldn't have used shots of the actual locomotive, the Nickel Plate 587.
> 
> I've never had a TV show be in a setting so close to my home. That isn't even remotely close to what Noblesville looks like  Not like I expect them to film on location, but it would have been cool to see places I recognize.


I live about 90 minutes south of Noblesville. We also have a working train museum with real steam engines.

Our town's name was used in a 2-parter West Wing episode "20 Hours In America" when the campaign was traveling. They caught the train at the station set in our town. The sign even said Connersville. They took the train to Indianapolis to catch a flight back to Dulles. However, they actually filmed the Indiana scenes in Pennsylvania because it looked more like Indiana I guess.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Directorial Emmy.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Directorial Emmy.


I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

trainman said:


> I guess Monroe found the one person still alive who could draw a map without a CAD program, do lettering without a desktop publishing program, and run a hand-operated multicolor offset printing press.


On a related note, I love that the United States of America are gone but that all 7 Harry Potter books have survived the blackout and resulting apocalypse.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

I think my biggest problem with the show is that I do not like ANY of the characters (except possibly Googleplex) so it makes it really hard for me to care about what they're doing and whether they succeed.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

kettledrum said:


> I've never had a TV show be in a setting so close to my home. That isn't even remotely close to what Noblesville looks like  Not like I expect them to film on location, but it would have been cool to see places I recognize.


Well they shoot in the Carolinas thus the forest shots of them tramping amongst the southern yellow pine that irks me instead of the deciduous landscape of the midwest.

I want Miss Thang to switch places with her brother. Why couldn't he have escaped and she left on the train to meet momma..

Wonder when they are going to go back to what happened to the black lady and Randall dude.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Directorial Emmy.


I agree. Hard to believe this is the same person though.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> I'm just happy the train wasn't blown up.
> 
> High-res version of the map:


The Monroe republic has DC. Curious why he would have chosen Philadephia over DC for his capitol unless the rebels are somehow strongest there. There's also a major train station in Alexandria which isn't too far from DC IIRC.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> The Monroe republic has DC. Curious why he would have chosen Philadephia over DC for his capitol unless the rebels are somehow strongest there.


Lot of factors could have played into it. DC might not have been in the "Monroe Republic" when it started. He might have wanted something more central for his capital (especially important with pre-modern transportation). Somewhere around Ohio might make more sense, but again, that might not have been an option when he was starting out.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

robojerk said:


> _Techincally_ Georgia was named after King George II of England. So both Monroe and Georgia are named after a person.


You're technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.



Polcamilla said:


> On a related note, I love that the United States of America are gone but that all 7 Harry Potter books have survived the blackout and resulting apocalypse.


Are you kidding? There are like a billion copies of those books, they'd absolutely survive. They'll be the last relics of our civilization.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> The Monroe republic has DC. Curious why he would have chosen Philadephia over DC for his capitol unless the rebels are somehow strongest there. There's also a major train station in Alexandria which isn't too far from DC IIRC.


DC would likely be a reminder of the U.S. Government so Monroe might not want to base there. Also DC isn't as defendable against a sea based attack as Philadelphia is.

For what it's worth Philly was the U.S. capital before it was moved to DC in 1800.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> You're technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
> 
> Are you kidding? There are like a billion copies of those books, they'd absolutely survive. They'll be the last relics of our civilization.


And since the author refused to go e-book until the series was complete it's likely the most circulated series to date in hard copy.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

morac said:


> DC would likely be a reminder of the U.S. Government so Monroe might not want to base there. Also DC isn't as defendable against a sea based attack as Philadelphia is.
> 
> For what it's worth Philly was the U.S. capital before it was moved to DC in 1800.


And again in 1814.

PS: I know that the capitol was moved once DC was burned, however it appears that a formal change was never made. I could be wrong, but I'm not seeing anything. It looks like a lot of discussion was made, but no decision. Still Philadelphia would be a good second choice for Monroe.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> I'm just happy the train wasn't blown up.
> 
> High-res version of the map:


I wonder who the leader of the Wasteland is. A zombie?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I wonder who the leader of the Wasteland is. A zombie?


Harvey T. Waste.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Plains Nation would be a hard area to keep from other Republics as there aren't a lot of population areas there. 

I do hope we get some more background on these Republics and how they were formed and how/if they work together. Are they all as tyrancial as Monroe?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> High-res version of the map:


It's interesting that all of the governments on the map tend to use natural boundaries, except for Texas and the Plains Nation. Both of those have odd boundaries to the Wasteland. The Plains Nation less so since you'd think that bordering up against a wasteland the boundary would follow areas where life couldn't be supported, was too difficult to live in, or didn't exist. Texas on the other hand has a straight line border that follows no natural boundary at all. Makes me think the writers left it that way so people would recognize it as Texas.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> ...Makes me think the writers left it that way so people would recognize it as Texas.


Totally agree with that. I would have done the same.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

morac said:


> I notice that the Monroe Republic is the only one named after a person. The others are named after locations: California, Plains States, Texas and Georgia. That makes me wonder if the other republics are actual republics. That would explain banding together to take on Monroe.


My Feel on it is that the Georgia Federation and Plains Nation are likely looking to gain control of the once industrialized north. Lot of resources there. Coal, Steel, etc. Since they have allied I'd be willing to bet slavery hasn't returned, so those two may actually be more of a democracy than the other nations. Texas? The man with the most money and land is running that one.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> Texas? The man with the most money and land is running that one.


At least it's not called Ewing Republic!

Looks like I live in the Monroe Republic or District 6 depending on what world wins out!


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> It's interesting that all of the governments on the map tend to use natural boundaries, except for Texas and the Plains Nation. Both of those have odd boundaries to the Wasteland. The Plains Nation less so since you'd think that bordering up against a wasteland the boundary would follow areas where life couldn't be supported, was too difficult to live in, or didn't exist. Texas on the other hand has a straight line border that follows no natural boundary at all. Makes me think the writers left it that way so people would recognize it as Texas.


Especially being a land surveyor, I immediately noticed that on the map. I highly doubt post apocalyptic boundaries would follow lines of latitude and longitude.


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## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

Wasteland could an homage to the classic role-playing game that took place in that area.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

kettledrum said:


> Especially being a land surveyor, I immediately noticed that on the map. I highly doubt post apocalyptic boundaries would follow lines of latitude and longitude.


And I'm paid to be a cartographer, or GIS professional in modern terms so I know what you mean.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Polcamilla said:


> On a related note, I love that the United States of America are gone but that all 7 Harry Potter books have survived the blackout and resulting apocalypse.


Well, apparently _one_ copy survived (to be the source material for the reprinting).

I do assume most libraries and even private book collections are gone, victims of fires, either intentional (needing fuel for warmth/cooking) or unintentional.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

kettledrum said:


> ....I've never had a TV show be in a setting so close to my home. That isn't even remotely close to what Noblesville looks like  Not like I expect them to film on location, but it would have been cool to see places I recognize.


Yeah, we're pretty familiar with the area, too, since our son, daughter-in-law and three young grandsons live in Fishers........we visit there A LOT.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

And, seriously...who would want a book about Joe Biden....wouldn't it be full of MALARKEY?


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> And, seriously...who would want a book about Joe Biden....wouldn't it be full of MALARKEY?


I slo-mo'd the scene where Hutch opened the false-bottomed drawer because I saw a book there, and I wondered if it might actually be a Joe Biden bio. But it was Catcher in the Rye.


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> Are you kidding? There are like a billion copies of those books, they'd absolutely survive. They'll be the last relics of our civilization.


....and they were printing more!


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> Makes me think the writers left it that way so people would recognize it as Texas.


The part of Texas that is straight cuts through a whole lot of nothing. I can believe that any Texans holding that territory would maintain that border because there's nothing on the other side to capture or defend against and they're just used to their territory ending there (much like you mow your lawn to a certain spot and then stop and it sometimes has nothing to do with whether you or your neighbor owns the spot you mowed).

I feel a little bad for the Plains Nations. Apparently the Canucks are being crazy vigilant at defending that nice straight border to (the Canadians' south) the north. The REST of the Canada border makes sense as there is geography that strongly motivates people to leave it unchanged, but that nice crisp line isn't gonna get maintained unless the Canadians have a serious bee in their bonnet.

ETA: And by "maintain" I mean, when they draw maps of their territory, they'll draw that as a border. I doubt they'd bother running patrols along that line. On a related note, I could see the "Wasteland" as not being a proper territory at all, but rather a largely uninhabited area that got named simply because there's land there but with no person holding a controling interest.

ETA #2: Though looking at the map again, the Wasteland includes some pretty fertile parts of the Rocky Mountains, so if nobody has claimed/is holding THOSE areas, then either the survivors of the Blackout or the writers/cartographers for the series are morons.


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> And, seriously...who would want a book about Joe Biden....wouldn't it be full of MALARKEY?


It's a great codeword though. Ain't nobody going to just wander into a post-Apocalyptic bookstore and randomly ask for a bio of Joe Biden.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Polcamilla said:


> I think my biggest problem with the show is that I do not like ANY of the characters (except possibly Googleplex) so it makes it really hard for me to care about what they're doing and whether they succeed.


I am struggling with this as well.
I think that it's an intriguing premise but the characters aren't doing much for me.
I think that in this episode, I would have preferred seeing the dead doctor over Charlie.



Polcamilla said:


> ETA: And by "maintain" I mean, when they draw maps of their territory, they'll draw that as a border. I doubt they'd bother running patrols along that line. On a related note, I could see the "Wasteland" as not being a proper territory at all, but rather a largely uninhabited area that got named simply because there's land there but with no person holding a controling interest.
> 
> ETA #2: Though looking at the map again, the Wasteland includes some pretty fertile parts of the Rocky Mountains, so if nobody has claimed/is holding THOSE areas, then either the survivors of the Blackout or the writers/cartographers for the series are morons.


Although, as you allude to, there could be people there but no recognized authority.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

klj said:


> i agree 100%
> 
> i am watching purely for the "car wreck" effect at this point. it's great. this show is horrible and getting worse.


Same could be about the threads about the show. Five episodes in the middle of a new fall tv season those who enjoy the show might wonder how many episodes of hating a new show it takes before one stops watching it.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

astrohip said:


> This is *kinda* me. It's not a very good show, but I keep watching thinking this episode will be the one that turns the corner.
> 
> But it wasn't...
> 
> ...


Since your nitpicks fall under the standard poorly thought out nitpicks that have plagued these threads from the beginning, why on earth do you think miles would be well known by site. What conventions in the world would lead you to believe most people would have ever seen an image of him. The irony of people complaining about poor writing based on horribly conceived nitpicks is not lost on me. All these threads are people claiming how bad the writers are and the only evidence the provide are nonsensical nitpicks that are more illogical than anything on the show or simply things we have not seen yet.

I am not picking just on you, I am picking on the entirety of those who complain about the writing and then proceed to share much more poorly thought out ideas and suggestions for the show. It has gotten tiresome.

We seriously had people talking about why they didn't just let the train blow up because nothing would have happened to the boy. These replacement ideas are 100 fold worse than anything that has been shown on the show.


----------



## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> I'm just happy the train wasn't blown up.
> 
> High-res version of the map:


Pretty clear that ultimately North America will all be under the Republic of Texas umbrella.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

RGM1138 said:


> I imagine there's plenty of available real estate in Wasteland.


So if youre 13-19 there, it would be a Teenage Wasteland..

<removes glasses>

<Guitar Waaaaaaaaah>


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

marksman said:


> We seriously had people talking about why they didn't just let the train blow up because nothing would have happened to the boy. These replacement ideas are 100 fold worse than anything that has been shown on the show.


There's been several good suggestions on how to blow up the train and save the boy ranging from decoupling the engine from the rest of the train to simply grabbing Danny and running. I don't see how those are worse than running to the front of the train, fighting the engineer and then sticking one's hand into the boiler fire to retrieve a cooking bomb.


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

marksman said:


> Pretty clear that ultimately North America will all be under the Republic of Texas umbrella.


Yeah, but what's the point? The Texas Embassy Cantina closed this summer and it was far and away the best thing about a sovereign nation of Texas.


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

morac said:


> There's been several good suggestions on how to blow up the train and save the boy ranging from decoupling the engine from the rest of the train to simply grabbing Danny and running. I don't see how those are worse than running to the front of the train, fighting the engineer and then sticking one's hand into the boiler fire to retrieve a cooking bomb.


I actually thought it was hilarious how they kept running back and forth on the outside of the train like it was this super-thrilling Old West train heist when it was this itty-bitty train that was only 2 cars long (plus the engine and the caboose). Seriously, the train we rode on Day Out With Thomas was bigger!

I'm kinda curious why they had a caboose hitched on to that thing anyway. It looked just adorable but seems like a massive waste of hauling ability, particularly when one of the two cars was a passenger car instead of 2 cargo cars.

(Also, kudos for the writers for throwing in the guy who's entire speaking part in the show seemed to be "this engine belongs in a museum!" but boo-hiss! They didn't spend ANY time discussing rail gauges!)


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Polcamilla said:


> (Also, kudos for the writers for throwing in the guy who's entire speaking part in the show seemed to be "this engine belongs in a museum!" but boo-hiss! They didn't spend ANY time discussing rail gauges!)


He did mention that they were busy clearing stuck cars off the tracks between where they were and Philly and that they might be done by morning. Somehow they managed to complete that task in a few hours.


----------



## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Polcamilla said:


> The part of Texas that is straight cuts through a whole lot of nothing. I can believe that any Texans holding that territory would maintain that border because there's nothing on the other side to capture or defend against and they're just used to their territory ending there (much like you mow your lawn to a certain spot and then stop and it sometimes has nothing to do with whether you or your neighbor owns the spot you mowed).


Agreed. Presumably that part of the Wasteland is more trouble than it's worth, so the Texans just maintain their historical boundary out of pride/tradition. Whereas to the north/east there is land worth disputing (for that matter, perhaps the Texans were the ones attacked initially, and took all of that land from the aggressors in the ensuing battles).



> I feel a little bad for the Plains Nations. Apparently the Canucks are being crazy vigilant at defending that nice straight border to (the Canadians' south) the north. The REST of the Canada border makes sense as there is geography that strongly motivates people to leave it unchanged, but that nice crisp line isn't gonna get maintained unless the Canadians have a serious bee in their bonnet.


The Canadians probably all froze, eh? 



> ETA #2: Though looking at the map again, the Wasteland includes some pretty fertile parts of the Rocky Mountains, so if nobody has claimed/is holding THOSE areas, then either the survivors of the Blackout or the writers/cartographers for the series are morons.


That part may simply be hard to hold due to the terrain? Though you'd think the same would apply to District 12 Appalachia...


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

dcheesi said:


> Agreed. Presumably that part of the Wasteland is more trouble than it's worth, so the Texans just maintain their historical boundary out of pride/tradition. Whereas to the north/east there is land worth disputing (for that matter, perhaps the Texans were the ones attacked initially, and took all of that land from the aggressors in the ensuing battles).
> 
> The Canadians probably all froze, eh?
> 
> That part may simply be hard to hold due to the terrain? Though you'd think the same would apply to District 12 Appalachia...


Yeah, when I saw the Rocky Mountain section I immediately thought that it's likely controlled by hill people that know the area and can defend it well enough that it isn't worth it to anyone to try and get it. Then I looked over at the Appalachian mountains and thought, so why not there as well? Mountains are full of territorial hillbillies with minds of their own.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Polcamilla said:


> I'm kinda curious why they had a caboose hitched on to that thing anyway. It looked just adorable but seems like a massive waste of hauling ability, particularly when one of the two cars was a passenger car instead of 2 cargo cars.


The caboose actually serves a purpose due to its special construction, however on a train with as few cars as this one it was likely not needed. That doesn't mean you wouldn't want to bring it along for when you did need it though. I didn't notice, but the one caboose I've ridden it had compartments on the side with seats where an observer could look back along the track on either side. Also the compartment on top could be used to signal the engine as well should any issues arise or to communicate to the engine how to proceed when backing up.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

marksman said:


> Pretty clear that ultimately North America will all be under the Republic of Texas umbrella.


Isn't that where the largest non military weapons caches in the free world are located?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

According to the writers, Danny is critical to Monroe because he can then make Mommy spill the beans (forget that it took Monroe the better part of a decade to figure this out). Charlie, on the other hand, is worthless and the proper way to react to finding her is "kill the *****".

Got it.

Monroe should also torture Danny to discover his amazing healing abilities. He can apparently take multiple punches to the face without even chipping a tooth, getting a bloody lip, or showing any bruising.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Just watched. I enjoy the show. And I enjoy the JJ Abramsisms and Lostisms. I can't believe noone has yet mentioned JJs usual mystical #47 which makes its way into every show he does. The "soul" train was #47. I think there is something there. And Lapidus!!!! I'll just go nuts if they get a help working and he flies it. 

Part of me wishes this world was part of the Lost airways weld or something like that....


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> According to the writers, Danny is critical to Monroe because he can then make Mommy spill the beans (forget that it took Monroe the better part of a decade to figure this out). Charlie, on the other hand, is worthless and the proper way to react to finding her is "kill the *****".
> 
> Got it.


That takes "Mom always liked you best" to a whole new level!


----------



## Flop (Dec 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That takes "Mom always liked you best" to a whole new level!


Have you seen the faces Charlie makes? I mean, c'mon, who wouldn't like the brother better? Then again, he usually some kind of dumb look on his face too. Maybe there is a reason mom bailed on the family.


----------



## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

So Gus was an insurance adjuster in his previous life. I really was wishing he ran some sort of chicken restaurant.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> So Gus was an insurance adjuster in his previous life. I really was wishing he ran some sort of chicken restaurant.


Or a box company!


----------



## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

mattack said:


> So if youre 13-19 there, it would be a Teenage Wasteland..
> 
> <removes glasses>
> 
> <Guitar Waaaaaaaaah>


Yes, that thought had crossed my mind.


----------



## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> The caboose actually serves a purpose due to its special construction, however on a train with as few cars as this one it was likely not needed. That doesn't mean you wouldn't want to bring it along for when you did need it though. I didn't notice, but the one caboose I've ridden it had compartments on the side with seats where an observer could look back along the track on either side. Also the compartment on top could be used to signal the engine as well should any issues arise or to communicate to the engine how to proceed when backing up.


The railroads quit using cabooses years ago. They would have had to find the one they had in a museum, along with the engine. 

Dave


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> High-res version of the map:


Two questions:

One - why is there a red dotted line extending west from San Francisco? I thought all of the ships were destroyed, and even if they weren't, why wouldn't there be lines from other Pacific ports as well?

Two - what is the significance of West Gravenhurst, Ontario? (It's on the map, east of Lake Huron, and north of Toronto.)


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

that was the fate of all the ships on the East cost, maybe...


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> The caboose actually serves a purpose due to its special construction, however on a train with as few cars as this one it was likely not needed. That doesn't mean you wouldn't want to bring it along for when you did need it though. I didn't notice, but the one caboose I've ridden it had compartments on the side with seats where an observer could look back along the track on either side. Also the compartment on top could be used to signal the engine as well should any issues arise or to communicate to the engine how to proceed when backing up.


I thought the main purpose of the caboose was to be sleeping/living quarters for the rail crew.


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

mrdbdigital said:


> The railroads quit using cabooses years ago. They would have had to find the one they had in a museum, along with the engine.


...and I figured that the only reason they HAD a caboose handy to hitch to the train was because they got it from the same museum they raided for the engine.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Polcamilla said:


> I thought the main purpose of the caboose was to be sleeping/living quarters for the rail crew.


It also served as an office for all the paperwork that accompanied the cargo.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

dcheesi said:


> .
> The Canadians probably all froze, eh?


Nah, we're just playing hockey in our long underwear.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> Two questions:
> 
> One - why is there a red dotted line extending west from San Francisco? I thought all of the ships were destroyed, and even if they weren't, why wouldn't there be lines from other Pacific ports as well?
> 
> Two - what is the significance of West Gravenhurst, Ontario? (It's on the map, east of Lake Huron, and north of Toronto.)


Interesting. Looking at google maps, it's not much, but there is a Drury Lane. Maybe they know the muffin man.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wprager said:


> ...Maybe they know the muffin man.


Do YOU know the muffin man?!


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

wprager said:


> Interesting. Looking at google maps, it's not much, but there is a Drury Lane. Maybe they know the muffin man.


Absolutely unrelated to anything at all whatsoever, but the most redeeming thing about Shrek! The Musical is that it is playing in a theater on Drury Lane in London.


----------



## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

mrdbdigital said:


> The railroads quit using cabooses years ago.


Not entirely. I've seen a caboose being used recently, on the tracks near here on a short train that was operating backward -- caboose in the front, locomotives in the rear.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Polcamilla said:


> I think my biggest problem with the show is that I do not like ANY of the characters (except possibly Googleplex) so it makes it really hard for me to care about what they're doing and whether they succeed.


FWIW, even though he's evil, I either like Neville or the job that actor's doing. I think they really picked the right guy for that role. I've never seen his other work before, AFAIK.


JYoung said:


> I have to agree that it seemed like the IQ of Miles and company dropped about 30 points in this episode.


Totally agree. They risked all that just to try to save Danny and let the Monroe Republic continue to have an operational train?


cheesesteak said:


> How did Miles know which log had the explosives?


My thoughts exactly.

Side note: For some reason, I just noticed that Nora's easy on the eyes. I liked the brief scene where she was changing.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> How did Miles know which log had the explosives?


Well, it was pretty blatantly fake...the plug in the end was both quite large and a completely different color. If you were looking for a log with a bomb in it, it would jump out at you.

(Which I assume they did for OUR benefit, but it certainly worked out well for Miles!)


----------



## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

trainman said:


> Not entirely. I've seen a caboose being used recently, on the tracks near here on a short train that was operating backward -- caboose in the front, locomotives in the rear.


I haven't see one here in the East for several years, except by the side of the track, converted to offices. I sure hear a lot of EOT devices on my scanner.

Dave


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Our local operational train museum has several cabooses. They just finished restoring a couple of them. They frequently hook all the cabooses to an engine and offer just caboose rides.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Finally watched it last night. The acting (Miles and Charlie, primarily) is getting really bad. Bad casting, IMO. I am getting really weird feelings about Neville -- like he's got multiple personalities or something. He is a good actor so I can only assume he's either being written like that on purpose, or the writing on the show is really uneven. What was the purpose of him beating up Danny? And why did the sound guys make it sound like he was breaking multiple facial bones, yet the next scene he looked completely untouched. Oh, and if Neville *really* was punching someone's skull this hard, he would have broken his own hand in a few places.

Why did they no just uncouple the caboose? Surely that's a lot easier than running across the whole train to the tender, beating up a guy, putting on some huge oven mitts (why were those there?) and risking being blown to bits by fishing out a bomb that was already on fire?

Why did Charlie not run into the caboose with her cross-bow drawn?

Why am I still watching this? Other than that Elizabeth Mitchell shot, that is.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

mrdbdigital said:


> The railroads quit using cabooses years ago. They would have had to find the one they had in a museum, along with the engine.
> 
> Dave


Yes, but they likely replaced it with some sort of technology. Without radios they'd need one on a longer train. And yes, it would likely come from a museum. OTOH, I've seen cabooses in operation as recent as 20 years ago, so some of those might still be floating around in train yards somewhere.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

markz said:


> Our local operational train museum has several cabooses. They just finished restoring a couple of them. They frequently hook all the cabooses to an engine and offer just caboose rides.





Stormspace said:


> Yes, but they likely replaced it with some sort of technology. Without radios they'd need one on a longer train. And yes, it would likely come from a museum. OTOH, I've seen cabooses in operation as recent as 20 years ago, so some of those might still be floating around in train yards somewhere.


I just drove by the local train station and there are 9 cabooses that I can see from the road. Ate least 2-3 of these have been recently restored. A couple are in very bad shape, and the rest are all in between condition-wise.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

There are PLENTY of cabooses still around...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> There are PLENTY of cabooses still around...


We're talking about railroad cars...


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> We're talking about railroad cars...


Well played...:up:


----------



## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

All I'm saying is that most current railroads no longer use cabooses since they no longer carry multi-person train crews. They don't have firemen and brakemen anymore. The function of someone riding in the caboose to monitor the end of train (EOT) brakes line pressure has been replaced with the EOT device, which radios the pressure back to the engineer in the locomotive. There is usually only one other crew person on your typical freight train, and he/she rides in the locomotive now with the engineer.

So, since cabooses are mostly obsolete now, finding an operational one 15 years from now might be problematic. You'd probably have to get one from a train museum, along with the train.

If I was going to worry about the train depicted in this show, I would worry more about how they got to Philadelphia with only one tender of wood and no water car. Steam locomotives do not recycle water, and they use quite a lot.

Dave


----------



## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

mrdbdigital said:


> If I was going to worry about the train depicted in this show, I would worry more about how they got to Philadelphia with only one tender of wood and no water car.


I always assumed they would refuel as needed at some town the railroad is passing through.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

mrdbdigital said:


> If I was going to worry about the train depicted in this show, I would worry more about how they got to Philadelphia with only one tender of wood and no water car. Steam locomotives do not recycle water, and they use quite a lot.


Water Stop

*Hypothetically*, say they couldn't find a water car, but built a new water stop to get the train there...


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

robojerk said:


> Water Stop
> 
> *Hypothetically*, say they couldn't find a water car, but built a new water stop to get the train there...


They need this piece:










They'd have to have SOMEONE build the water towers every X length along the track AND fill it with water (by hand with buckets, I'm guessing? I doubt they have any handy manual pump mechanisms).

The caboose was clearly there to look cute but like I said, it was TINY train---engine, one boxcar, one passenger car, caboose. HUGE waste of resources. Even an open cargo car filled with wood for the tender would've been a better use (though it's amusing to picture them stopping every few miles to briefly deforest the surrounding area and then carry on).


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

mrdbdigital said:


> So, since cabooses are mostly obsolete now, finding an operational one 15 years from now might be problematic. You'd probably have to get one from a train museum, along with the train.


I think finding the working steam engine would be much more difficult as they are larger, heavier, and have more parts that would need to be restored to working condition.

There are easily as many cabooses around as working engines and "operational" just means the wheels roll, the coupling mechanism works, and there aren't too many large gaping holes in the wood siding.

The bigger point is, for this application, they didn't NEED one.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

mrdbdigital said:


> If I was going to worry about the train depicted in this show, I would worry more about how they got to Philadelphia with only one tender of wood and no water car. Steam locomotives do not recycle water, and they use quite a lot.
> 
> Dave


I got a peak inside the caboose window in one scene and am pretty sure I saw a water tank and wood pile.


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

markz said:


> *I got a peak inside the caboose* window in one scene and am pretty sure I saw a water tank and wood pile.


TMI, dude!


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I'm really laughing at a Caboose debate. Every train that's ever been on TV has had a caboose...simple as that. People expect trains to have cabooses (on TV).


----------



## classicX (May 10, 2006)

I'm only watching this show at this point to find out what the explanation for the power loss is. I don't find any of the characters compelling.

I do find it strange that Charlie always looks so much cleaner than everyone else. Is she still using 15-year old shampoo?


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

classicX said:


> I'm only watching this show at this point to find out what the explanation for the power loss is. I don't find any of the characters compelling...


I'll shoot you an email when/if it is ever revealed and you can save yourself a lot of anguish... 

Same deal for anybody else, if they want it.


----------



## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

We'll probably never see that train again in the series, especially after all the discussion here about steam powered trains.

Dave


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

classicX said:


> I'm only watching this show at this point to find out what the explanation for the power loss is. I don't find any of the characters compelling.
> 
> I do find it strange that Charlie always looks so much cleaner than everyone else. Is she still using 15-year old shampoo?


*Still thinking it's a broadcast power plant that's disrupting traditional power.* The amulets some how disrupt that signal allowing devices in close proximity to operate. Whether power is still running through the lines to the homes or not is questionable. The amulets may allow devices to utilize the broadcast power.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> *Still thinking it's a broadcast power plant that's disrupting traditional power.* The amulets some how disrupt that signal allowing devices in close proximity to operate. Whether power is still running through the lines to the homes or not is questionable. The amulets may allow devices to utilize the broadcast power.


I like the theory but who would do that or is in control of it? I'd think if somebody deliberately created this, then they would make sure they have some type of advantage when it happened.

I'm leaning more told the Lost/smoke monster theory that it is something mystikal that we'll probably never figure out.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

classicX said:


> I'm only watching this show at this point to find out what the explanation for the power loss is. I don't find any of the characters compelling.
> 
> I do find it strange that Charlie always looks so much cleaner than everyone else. Is she still using 15-year old shampoo?


http://tvfilmnews.com/new-revolution-power-outage-scoop-from-creator-eric-kripke/



> Want to know why the lights went out? Yes, that was a trick question, because of course you want to know! Creator Eric Kripke teases that viewers will get the answer to that question sooner than you might think. "We're talking dangerously about revealing that secret before the end of the first season," he tells us. "It's part of my philosophy about not being too precious with anything. We may reveal the secret sooner than later."


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Eric Kripke said:


> "We brought a physicist into the offices and gave him the big secret and vetted it from a scientific point of view," he says. "And his face lit up and he said he never considered it but it is possible.".


If it turns out to be mystical/magical then that wouldn't be very scientific.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> *Still thinking it's a broadcast power plant that's disrupting traditional power.* The amulets some how disrupt that signal allowing devices in close proximity to operate. Whether power is still running through the lines to the homes or not is questionable. The amulets may allow devices to utilize the broadcast power.


Maybe it's a HERF, though if that was the case, any device in a Faraday cage should still work so I doubt that's it.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I like the theory but who would do that or is in control of it? I'd think if somebody deliberately created this, then they would make sure they have some type of advantage when it happened.
> 
> I'm leaning more told the Lost/smoke monster theory that it is something mystikal that we'll probably never figure out.


Remember too that the 12 actually knew the power would be going off and they were able to prepare for it by creating the amulets. I'd be willing to bet there are 13 Amulets, 12 created by the people in charge and the one that Ben made just before the blackout. I think he smuggled one out.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Remember too that the 12 actually knew the power would be going off and they were able to prepare for it by creating the amulets. I'd be willing to bet there are 13 Amulets, 12 created by the people in charge and the one that Ben made just before the blackout. I think he smuggled one out.


And if they unite all 13 amulets they can summon *Volt*ron.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

morac said:


> And if they unite all 13 amulets they can summon Voltron.


Is he mystical? More like Dormammu.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> *Still thinking it's a broadcast power plant that's disrupting traditional power.* The amulets some how disrupt that signal allowing devices in close proximity to operate. Whether power is still running through the lines to the homes or not is questionable. The amulets may allow devices to utilize the broadcast power.


How would that explain the fact that every car stopped working, battery-powered devices stopped working, planes fell out of the sky, etc. This wasn't simply an EMP which fried the circuits of anything that was powered up. And it wasn't just limited to devices getting electricity from the grid.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Is he mystical? More like Dormammu.


See my edit.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> How would that explain the fact that every car stopped working, battery-powered devices stopped working, planes fell out of the sky, etc. This wasn't simply an EMP which fried the circuits of anything that was powered up. And it wasn't just limited to devices getting electricity from the grid.


I think it disrupts electrical current. Perhaps it's frequency based so it can disrupt batteries discharging and power plants from producing power while at the same time allow electro-chemical processes to function as well as static electricity (lightning).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> I think it disrupts electrical current. Perhaps it's frequency based so it can disrupt batteries discharging and power plants from producing power while at the same time allow electro-chemical processes to function as well as static electricity (lightning).


One thing we do know is that it didn't cause damage like an EMP because things will work again like the iphone.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

pmyers said:


> One thing we do know is that it didn't cause damage like an EMP because things will work again like the iphone.


It apparently also keeps iPhone batteries from discharging over 15 years of inactivity.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Interesting column by TV critic Maureen Ryan about why Revolution has been successful so far.

Why 'Revolution' Is A Ratings Hit (And Why It Still Has A Problem)

Her seven reasons for its success:
1. It kept the core concept simple
2. Episodes are similar to each other
3. Character motivations are easy to follow
4. The show is a series of cliffhangers
5. It's uncynical and family friendly
6. It's aspirational
7. It made Billy Burke, Elizabeth Mitchell, and Giancarlo Esposito series regulars


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

I'm assuming it's something that prevents the transfer of electrons.

I still don't understand why we haven't seen very old cars, lawnmower engines re-purposed for various tasks, etc. Mechanical devices should still work.

Plus, making bullets is not that difficult - they should be able to make more ammunition without acting like ammo doesn't exist anymore.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

classicX said:


> Plus, making bullets is not that difficult - they should be able to make more ammunition without acting like ammo doesn't exist anymore.


I don't think it's the bullets but rather that modern gun powder uses chemicals that are manufactured in labs make newer guns useless. You'd have to read the threads from the previous episodes where someone broke it down.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

robojerk said:


> I don't think it's the bullets but rather that modern gun powder uses chemicals that are manufactured in labs make newer guns useless. You'd have to read the threads from the previous episodes where someone broke it down.


Exactly. There are probably millions of manual reloader rigs in garages and basements all over this country. But in order to use those, you have to have the right kind of gunpowder, and without electricity, it's highly unlikely anyone would be able to manufacture it. So after 15 years, the supply of ammo for modern guns is in limited supply, which is why the rank-and-file soldiers have black-powder rifles and/or swords.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

classicX said:


> ...I still don't understand why we haven't seen very old cars, lawnmower engines re-purposed for various tasks, etc. Mechanical devices should still work...


Cause it's only 6 episodes in and we haven't seen very much of the world?

We did get trains, bikes and animal driven transportation in the last episode....and even a printing press. Give them some time 

Plus gas might be an issue.....


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> Remember too that the 12 actually knew the power would be going off and they were able to prepare for it by creating the amulets. I'd be willing to bet there are 13 Amulets, 12 created by the people in charge and the one that Ben made just before the blackout. I think he smuggled one out.


If it all comes down to Charlie having to take the One Amulet and throw it into the fires of Mt. St. Helens, I will commit the crime of gun ownership just for the luxury of being able to shoot myself.


----------



## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Cause it's only 6 episodes in and we haven't seen very much of the world?
> 
> We did get trains, bikes and animal driven transportation in the last episode....and even a printing press. Give them some time
> 
> Plus gas might be an issue.....


Okay....admittedly I only watched with half an eye, but the only bikes I saw were horribly rusty one ones chained to an ivy covered bike rack outside the bank.


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## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Interesting column by TV critic Maureen Ryan about why Revolution has been successful so far.
> 
> Why 'Revolution' Is A Ratings Hit (And Why It Still Has A Problem)
> 
> ...


You didn't include the glaring problem - the HORRIBLE acting by the girl playing Charlie!


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

Anubys said:


> According to the writers, Danny is critical to Monroe because he can then make Mommy spill the beans (forget that it took Monroe the better part of a decade to figure this out). Charlie, on the other hand, is worthless and the proper way to react to finding her is "kill the *****".
> 
> Got it.


Neville doesn't know why Monroe wants Danny. He might not even know anything about Rachel. So he wouldn't necessarily see Charlie as someone important to Monroe.

And even if he did consider the possibility that Charlie might be useful to Monroe, I don't get the feeling that he would go above and beyond the call of duty for him. He had orders about Danny, and followed those. But he didn't have any regarding Charlie. So since he couldn't cause Danny too much direct suffering, he probably wanted to kill Charlie to hurt him as much as to get rid of a nuisance.



robojerk said:


> If it turns out to be mystical/magical then that wouldn't be very scientific.


No matter what there is going to be some kind of "magic". If whatever happened was a known possibility even in theory, a lot of physicists would have already figured out what had happened. Since only a very select group of people know what happened, it stands to reason that this is a new discovery on the bleeding edge of the human race's knowledge of the universe.

Unless the writers are extremely lucky or extraordinarily brilliant, it is very unlikely that they came up with a plausible theory that has not already been thought of in the physics community. It is hard enough for people who dedicate their lives to research to do that.

So whatever they came up with is most likely not feasible without some sort of magic device that works "just 'cause".


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

classicX said:


> I'm assuming it's something that prevents the transfer of electrons.
> 
> I still don't understand why we haven't seen very old cars, lawnmower engines re-purposed for various tasks, etc. Mechanical devices should still work.


Old cars, and lawnmowers need electricity for the spark plug, cars get it from batteries/generators/alternators, lawnmowers get it from a magneto, none of which work. Now old vehicle with diesel engines can run without electricity, but would very hard to start without an electric starter. But I guess the owner could always park them on a hill and roll them down to start them. However there are small diesel engines that can be hand cranked 



 you would think these would be very valuable in world without electricity.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

But you would still need diesel to run them...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

vman said:


> You didn't include the glaring problem - the HORRIBLE acting by the girl playing Charlie!


I left that off on purpose to entice people to click on the link and read the story.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Anubys said:


> But you would still need diesel to run them...


agreed. I would think after 15 years, fuel would either be gone or rounded up by the militias to protect.


----------



## garyh (Jan 15, 2004)

Just to be fun and nitpicky - I do like the show well enough to keep watching - 

If all electrical processes are disrupted, including chemical reactions to generate current such as batteries AND both the human (and animal for that matter) heart and brain both use electrical currents to function, then shouldn't everyone have dropped dead instantly at the time of the blackout?

Just a fun topic of conversation, I can suspend disbelief pretty successfully for tv shows. I don't even question how Monroe could organize and maintain dictatorial control of 1/4th of the U.S. containing probably half the population with no modern communications. The only "nation" that would be feasible would be Texas, and definately not as a dictatorship.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

garyh said:


> Just to be fun and nitpicky - I do like the show well enough to keep watching -
> 
> If all electrical processes are disrupted, including chemical reactions to generate current such as batteries AND both the human (and animal for that matter) heart and brain both use electrical currents to function, then shouldn't everyone have dropped dead instantly at the time of the blackout?...


I don't agree with your premise of chemical reactions being disrupted. I believe it's just power/circuit related.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

garyh said:


> Just to be fun and nitpicky - I do like the show well enough to keep watching -
> 
> If all electrical processes are disrupted, including chemical reactions to generate current such as batteries AND both the human (and animal for that matter) heart and brain both use electrical currents to function, then shouldn't everyone have dropped dead instantly at the time of the blackout?
> 
> Just a fun topic of conversation, I can suspend disbelief pretty successfully for tv shows. I don't even question how Monroe could organize and maintain dictatorial control of 1/4th of the U.S. containing probably half the population with no modern communications. The only "nation" that would be feasible would be Texas, and definately not as a dictatorship.


What if the dampening field I like to call the new broadcast power plant disrupts certain frequencies?

The average human body has a frequency that ranges between 62 to 68 MHz. 
The human brain's frequency is higher at 72 to 90 MHz.

Electrical Power Plants
In most parts of the world this is 50 Hz, although in the Americas it is typically 60 Hz. Current usage by country or region is given in the list of mains power around the world.

Apparently lightning has no frequency so wouldn't be affected.

So the "whatever it is" generates a wave or waves that cancels out the frequencies used for electrical current. These waves are pervasive and cannot be blocked by intervening structures, but can be canceled out by these amulets that apparently have a power supply that never depletes.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Is it all that good? No. But I will still watch to see play out of all 12 amulets and maybe get more info on the districts and maybe what kind of people command those areas.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

Stormspace said:


> What if the dampening field I like to call the new broadcast power plant disrupts certain frequencies?
> ...
> Apparently lightning has no frequency so wouldn't be affected.
> 
> ...


Yes lightning is direct current and doesn't have a frequency, however currents from batteries are direct and don't have a frequency either. I am very curious about what technobabble they came up to explain why technology based currents both mechanical and chemical are stopped but not natural currents like living beings use, lightning etc.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

mwhip said:


> Is it all that good? No. But I will still watch to see play out of all 12 amulets and maybe get more info on the districts and maybe what kind of people command those areas.


And the missing 13th District and the annual Power Games?


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Oh this is interesting. I just saw this. Boeing is testing a "microwave missile" that "bombards targets underneath with microwaves that shut down computers, power systems and just about anything electrical in their path."

Perhaps this is how they did it in "Revolution"?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/23/boeing-tests-microwave-missile-that-knocks-out-electronics/


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

GAViewer said:


> Yes lightning is direct current and doesn't have a frequency, however currents from batteries are direct and don't have a frequency either. I am very curious about what technobabble they came up to explain why technology based currents both mechanical and chemical are stopped but not natural currents like living beings use, lightning etc.


Again I would ask, why you think chemical reactions are being stopped? Have we had any indication that they have?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Ereth said:


> Oh this is interesting. I just saw this. Boeing is testing a "microwave missile" that "bombards targets underneath with microwaves that shut down computers, power systems and just about anything electrical in their path."
> 
> Perhaps this is how they did it in "Revolution"?
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/23/boeing-tests-microwave-missile-that-knocks-out-electronics/


So it shuts them down but doesn't fry the circuits? So it doesn't do permanent damage like an EMP would?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Again I would ask, why you think chemical reactions are being stopped? Have we had any indication that they have?


Because that's how batteries generate electricity (via chemical processes).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

morac said:


> Because that's how batteries generate electricity (via chemical processes).


I understand that, but we have not been shown anything that shows that process not working... For all we know, a charged battery (which might be hard to find after 15 years) could still generate a spark, but whatever you were trying to power, that had electronics still wouldn't work. Of course the amulets are a different story.

You could be right, I'm just saying that we haven't seen that.

I look at it like some type of permanent, non-destructive, EMP thing that prevents electronics from working. But if that EMP is disrupted (by the amulets) then everything is still in working order and will power up like the iPhone did.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

morac said:


> Because that's how batteries generate electricity (via chemical processes).


Exactly, also chemical processes create electricity in fuel cells which while not mentioned, I would assume don't work as well, or people would be using them for power. That is why I said "technology based currents." The chemical processes in living bodies that create small currents are obviously still working since all the animals didn't die. However I do wonder about large currents electric eels can create.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

GAViewer said:


> Exactly chemical processes also create electricity in fuel cells which while not mentioned, I would assume don't work as well, or people would be using them for power. ...


to power what? If nothing that uses electricy works, what good is the actual power?

It's not that the world just lost power like a black out, its that everything that used power stopped working.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

pmyers said:


> to power what? If nothing that uses electricy works, what good is the actual power?
> 
> It's not that the world just lost power like a black out, its that everything that used power stopped working.


Maybe, but I think in world of "Revolution" all major electric currents have stopped. You can't get much simpler than a couple of wires and a light bulb, if a battery or a fuel cell makes current then when the wires are hooked to it the light bulb is going to glow.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> to power what? If nothing that uses electricy works, what good is the actual power?
> 
> It's not that the world just lost power like a black out, its that everything that used power stopped working.


We've been shown (with the iPhone and Discman) that those things still work when power is restored. So there's something preventing the power from flowing through the circuits.


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> So it shuts them down but doesn't fry the circuits? So it doesn't do permanent damage like an EMP would?


It is difficult to find details, but I haven't seen anything that says definitively whether or not the electronics would function afterwards, and most speculation is that the microwaves are frying the circuits so that those particular devices would not work afterwards.

A Slashdot poster did notice, however, that the fluorescent lights were unaffected and remained on in the room where the computers were fried.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I look at it like some type of permanent, non-destructive, EMP thing that prevents electronics from working. But if that EMP is disrupted (by the amulets) then everything is still in working order and will power up like the iPhone did.


An EMP actually burns out the wiring in devices by inducing an obscene amount of current to flow through all the wires/circuits in a device at once. That's what makes it destructive since the devices are useless at that point. That's also why shielded devices aren't affected.

Ignoring the destruction part, if the issue here was an EMP like device, it wouldn't work on shielded equipment. The only cause that makes "sense" would be something that prevents electrons from flowing, but since lightning still exists and people aren't dropping dead it would have to be very specifically targeted and have the ability to pass through Faraday cages.

There are real world things that can prevent electron flow, such as freezing something to absolute zero, but there's nothing that can affect only specific items worldwide. Basically it would be "magic" since nothing like that exists in the real world, despite what the show creators say.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

morac said:


> There are real world things that can prevent electron flow, such as freezing something to absolute zero, but there's nothing that can affect only specific items worldwide. Basically it would be "magic" since nothing like that exists in the real world, despite what the show creators say.


Besides, if anything was being frozen to absolute zero, I think people would notice. At least outside Canada.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

In the real world, third law of thermodynamics says absolute zero is unattainable. But when you get close to it, electrical resistance becomes zero, (i.e. superconductors). So current not only doesn't stop, it flows without any loses.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

GAViewer said:


> In the real world, third law of thermodynamics says absolute zero is unattainable. But when you get close to it, electrical resistance becomes zero, (i.e. superconductors). So current not only doesn't stop, it flows without any loses.


At absolute zero, resistance becomes zero because all particle movement stops. So there's no resistance, but also no flow of electrons. Moot point though since like you said, it's impossible.

On a side note, not all materials are superconductors at very cold temperatures.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

GAViewer said:


> Yes lightning is direct current and doesn't have a frequency, however currents from batteries are direct and don't have a frequency either. I am very curious about what technobabble they came up to explain why technology based currents both mechanical and chemical are stopped but not natural currents like living beings use, lightning etc.


In this world, batteries are a thing of the past. You need electricity to make/charge a battery.
Sure, you could make a crude chemical battery like you did in the 6th grade science fair, but that would hardly be useful for any meaningful work.


----------



## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

steve614 said:


> In this world, batteries are a thing of the past. You need electricity to make/charge a battery.
> Sure, you could make a crude chemical battery like you did in the 6th grade science fair, but that would hardly be useful for any meaningful work.


Not really all non rechargeable are made inserting the proper chemicals in the right arrangement. Like carbon zinc batteries I grew up with and the modern alkaline batteries. In fact if you get lead plates and sulfuric acid you can make a Leadacid battery like in a car. It doesn't require electricity make lead or sulfuric acid. As it discharges the lead reacts with the acid to convert the plates to lead sulfate and the acid to water. Now after it discharges you have two ways to reverse the process, 1) run current through it backward which converts the plates back to lead and the water back to acid 2) Remove the plates and chemically convert the lead sulfate to lead and use the sulfur to convert the water to acid. While I am sure a modern factory uses electricity, it doesn't require it to make the chemicals that go into a battery.

Of course the pilot showed all the car batteries quit producing current needed to power the spark plugs and car lights. So something caused the current from batteries to stop no matter if they were rechargeable, or single use batteries.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

I rationalize the mystery effect as something that just affects the conductivity of metals. Ions in solution would still conduct electricity, but without wires it's not useful. Static electric charge can still build up and arc.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

GAViewer said:


> Of course the pilot showed all the car batteries quit producing current needed to power the spark plugs and car lights. So something caused the current from batteries to stop no matter if they were rechargeable, or single use batteries.


And this is where suspension of belief comes in handy. Even if the battery is dead, a car can continue to operate due to the alternator.
There has to be more involved.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

steve614 said:


> And this is where suspension of belief comes in handy. Even if the battery is dead, a car can continue to operate due to the alternator.
> There has to be more involved.


An alternator is just a generator of alternating current, which in real world is converted to direct current which runs the engine, powers the lights and charges the battery. I have run cars without an alternator (the fan belt broke) and cars without batteries. We had a car without a battery, we borrowed a battery and cranked the car, put the battery back in the original car and drove both to an auto parts store to get a new battery. But the Revolution pilot said all electricity quit, both generators and batteries. So cars don't run.

So the "suspension of belief" is needed to accept that all technology generated electricity quit working, but not the electricity in living bodies, or in lightning.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

steve614 said:


> And this is where suspension of belief comes in handy. Even if the battery is dead, a car can continue to operate due to the alternator.
> There has to be more involved.


Exactly. This isn't just a battery or chemical issue. There is more going on.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

The phrase is "suspension of _dis_belief".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> The phrase is "suspension of _dis_belief".


But the practical meaning has become "suspension of brain activity"...


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I was trying to explain the premise to the best of my knowledge to a coworker and the best way I've come up was the following:

We made/developed, etc, a way to stop the electrical current from flowing in the normal way, this is why things don't work, cars, etc, the pendants have a way to nullify this effect and make things normal again.

However 2 things strike me as to why this is a nice idea but the logic fails:
Our bodies are electrical, why aren't we all dead? (they can use an organic disclaimer)
Maggies iphone, this breaks the logic several ways, she said it ran after the incident until the battery died, this makes zero sense with the way I described in the previous paragraph.

I have to wonder if my speculation is right and Maggie's iphone was just sloppy writing.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I really have no idea why people continue to bring up the human body. I really don't. Yes, I know we have electrical charges, but it is pretty obvious that what is going on is bigger and different than that (ex. the lightning storm).


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> Maggies iphone, this breaks the logic several ways, she said it ran after the incident until the battery died, this makes zero sense with the way I described in the previous paragraph.


I don't recall her saying the phone ran after the black out. She just carried it around after the black out since all her photos were in it.

As for the organic part, maybe the electricity blocking fields works like the time travel does in Terminator. In which case wrapping electronics in living tissue might work.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

morac said:


> I don't recall her saying the phone ran after the black out. She just carried it around after the black out since all her photos were in it.


Well obviously she should have backed up her photos to her computer.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> I really have no idea why people continue to bring up the human body. I really don't. Yes, I know we have electrical charges, but it is pretty obvious that what is going on is bigger and different than that (ex. the lightning storm).


Because nobody's come up with a way that this could work that both A) does what happens on the show, and B) doesn't affect the human body.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I really have no idea why people continue to bring up the human body. I really don't. Yes, I know we have electrical charges, but it is pretty obvious that what is going on is bigger and different than that (ex. the lightning storm).


Well it's possible lightning still works because it simply overpowers whatever is blocking electricity in general. The largest power plant in the world is capable of 22,500 MW of power. The average lightning strike contains about 1/2 million MW of power.

Maybe something like this would work in this world. 
http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/hydra-skyscrape.php


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Well obviously she should have backed up her photos to her computer.


They're probably still somewhere in iCloud at Apple HQ.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

morac said:


> Well it's possible lightning still works because it simply overpowers whatever is blocking electricity in general. The largest power plant in the world is capable of 22,500 MW of power. The average lightning strike contains about 1/2 million MW of power.
> 
> Maybe something like this would work in this world.
> http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/hydra-skyscrape.php


I'd say the opposite. How much electricity does the human body really need (voltage and amperage). Maybe whatever happened only affects currents above a certain threshold, not below.

Or maybe it's just a TV show and we should just go with it.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

wprager said:


> I'd say the opposite. How much electricity does the human body really need (voltage and amperage). Maybe whatever happened only affects currents above a certain threshold, not below.
> 
> Or maybe it's just a TV show and we should just go with it.


I'm still thinking it's frequency based. The human body runs at a frequency outside the range that's affected by the nullifier.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> I'm still thinking it's frequency based. The human body runs at a frequency outside the range that's affected by the nullifier.


And I'm still thinking it's script based. Certain forms of electricity are convenient not to work, so they don't work. Others are convenient to work, so they work.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Stormspace said:


> I'm still thinking it's frequency based. The human body runs at a frequency outside the range that's affected by the nullifier.


I'm on board with this. Pretty simple and plausible (at least to me). Also explains how the amulets are able to turn things on.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Maybe there are 12 different nullifiers, each dampening something specific (eg a nullifier that dampens all car batteries everywhere, a nullifier that dampens household electrical current, etc) and there are the 12 corresponding amulets that locally reverse that particular nullity. You need all 12 amulets together to stop all of the nullifiers. Bioelectrical impulses aren't affected, because there is no nullifier for it, particularly.


----------



## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I'm still thinking it's script based. Certain forms of electricity are convenient not to work, so they don't work. Others are convenient to work, so they work.


I thought that was a given, however one doesn't preclude the other at present. Since I'm only vaguely familiar with this, the frequency based thing may not be an alternating frequency, but the actual electromagnetic frequency electricity uses, i.e. the wavelength. That's about as specific as I can get, since I'm not a scientist. 

Something like a continous EMP that somehow doesn't damage equipment. As I'm thinking, the possibility that this could have been a weapon designed to immobilize a country without damaging the assets in that country. Your own troops would be outfitted with amulets or similar devices so they could operate unimpeded. The 12 (I think at least 13) people with amulets suspected or knew that the test was going to be a bust and prepared for the worst. Just wondering why they didn't go back and turn it off, unless in close proximity it DOES affect people and you need the power of 12 amulets to get close to it.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> I was trying to explain the premise to the best of my knowledge to a coworker and the best way I've come up was the following:
> 
> We made/developed, etc, a way to stop the electrical current from flowing in the normal way, this is why things don't work, cars, etc, the pendants have a way to nullify this effect and make things normal again.
> 
> ...





morac said:


> I don't recall her saying the phone ran after the black out. She just carried it around after the black out since all her photos were in it.


Agree with morac. Maggie never mentioned that her iPhone continued to work after the blackout. However, the fact that it worked when in proximity to the amulet tells us two things about whatever caused the blackout:

1. It did not damage electronic circuits.
2. It suspended the battery capacity, allowing the battery to maintain whatever charge it held at the time of the blackout.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Agree with morac. Maggie never mentioned that her iPhone continued to work after the blackout. However, the fact that it worked when in proximity to the amulet tells us two things about whatever caused the blackout:
> 
> 1. It did not damage electronic circuits.
> 2. It suspended the battery capacity, allowing the battery to maintain whatever charge it held at the time of the blackout.


Either that, or Apple made one heck of an improvement in battery tech before the blackout.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

morac said:


> Well it's possible lightning still works because it simply overpowers whatever is blocking electricity in general. The largest power plant in the world is capable of 22,500 MW of power. The average lightning strike contains about 1/2 million MW of power.


 I thought everyone knew that a lightning strike has 1.21 gigawatts of power!


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

GAViewer said:


> I thought everyone knew that a lightning strike has 1.21 gigawatts of power!


Only in the movies.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

dianebrat said:


> We made/developed, etc, a way to stop the electrical current from flowing in the normal way, this is why things don't work, cars, etc, the pendants have a way to nullify this effect and make things normal again.


It's not yet apparent whether humans are responsible for the blackout. It could be a natural phenomenon, or (my own preferred explanation, although I doubt the show will go this way) an alien attack.

(The reason I prefer "alien attack": It seems to be a targeted suppression of advanced technology. Not what you'd expect from nature, and it's beyond what humans know how to do currently, not to mention it's hard to imagine any human group seeing the results as being in their interest, at this terrible cost. An alien race, though, that saw us as threatening, might see this as a benevolent way of dealing with us -- compared to, say, outright genocide.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> (The reason I prefer "alien attack": It seems to be a targeted suppression of advanced technology. Not what you'd expect from nature, and it's beyond what humans know how to do currently, not to mention it's hard to imagine any human group seeing the results as being in their interest, at this terrible cost. An alien race, though, that saw us as threatening, might see this as a benevolent way of dealing with us -- compared to, say, outright genocide.)


But the problem with that theory is, humans knew about it in advance, and had a way to counteract its effects. So unless the aliens kindly shared their technology and plans with us in advance, it's pretty unlikely. 

I think the real question is, did the people who did this do it on purpose? If so, why? As you say, nobody seems to have gained very much from all this.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

danterner said:


> Maybe there are 12 different nullifiers, each dampening something specific (eg a nullifier that dampens all car batteries everywhere, a nullifier that dampens household electrical current, etc) and there are the 12 corresponding amulets that locally reverse that particular nullity. You need all 12 amulets together to stop all of the nullifiers. Bioelectrical impulses aren't affected, because there is no nullifier for it, particularly.


You need one amulet to rule them all.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Glad Charlie toughened up, not 5 minutes before I mentioned to my wife that (before seeing any of this series) I was expecting Charlie to be more like Miles. Now if they can show a few scenes of her bathing....


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So unless the aliens kindly shared their technology and plans with us in advance, it's pretty unlikely.


I can't be the only one who thinks the amulets look like alien artifacts. I'd imagine a friendly alien or two who wasn't on board with the program provided them. Not unlikely at all.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

wmcbrine said:


> I can't be the only one who thinks the amulets look like alien artifacts. I'd imagine a friendly alien or two who wasn't on board with the program provided them. Not unlikely at all.


I'm not so sure I buy into the alien angle, but it occurs to me that the amulets could be future tech, and that there's a time travel twist involving very advanced humans who made the amulets. That at least would explain the Revolution/Evolution flickering title card...

But I don't really think so.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

I thought the Mom started telling Monroe that she and her husband worked on the project together for the Defense Department, and that was when we found out there were 12 amulets?

Dave


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## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

steve614 said:


> In this world, batteries are a thing of the past. You need electricity to make/charge a battery.
> Sure, you could make a crude chemical battery like you did in the 6th grade science fair, but that would hardly be useful for any meaningful work.


Science fair memories -- they just need to carry around potatoes. Lots and lots of potatoes


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> I can't be the only one who thinks the amulets look like alien artifacts. I'd imagine a friendly alien or two who wasn't on board with the program provided them. Not unlikely at all.


A) Those are some pretty slow-moving aliens if their strategy is to completely immobilize/neutralize humanity, then wait 15+ years to come collect our resources/enslave us. Daleks move faster than that!

B) You know that ever alien/alien artifact in every movie ever was designed by a human, right? What particularly makes those artifacts look more "alien" than any random amulet on Etsy?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Polcamilla said:


> A) Those are some pretty slow-moving aliens if their strategy is to completely immobilize/neutralize humanity, then wait 15+ years to come collect our resources/enslave us. Daleks move faster than that!


Well, if you're going to criticize his theory (and feel free...I think he's wrong), you really should criticize HIS theory instead of making one up, attributing it to him, and then criticizing it! 

(His theory: "An alien race, though, that saw us as threatening, might see this as a benevolent way of dealing with us -- compared to, say, outright genocide.")


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## garyh (Jan 15, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> The phrase is "suspension of _dis_belief".


Yes, I think I messed that up.


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## garyh (Jan 15, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Agree with morac. Maggie never mentioned that her iPhone continued to work after the blackout. However, the fact that it worked when in proximity to the amulet tells us two things about whatever caused the blackout:
> 
> 1. It did not damage electronic circuits.
> 2. It suspended the battery capacity, allowing the battery to maintain whatever charge it held at the time of the blackout.


#2 actually kind of makes sense, if no current can flow, including the normal leakage that would discharge the battery over time, then it would remain at whatever state it was at when the blackout started.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Interesting column by TV critic Maureen Ryan about why Revolution has been successful so far.
> 
> Why 'Revolution' Is A Ratings Hit (And Why It Still Has A Problem)
> 
> ...


I think that's debatable. Friend I watch with complained that it is impossible to care about any character because they haven't shown us anything useful about them and have no reason to care about their actions. If not showing any back story and just having them directly state their goal equates in their mind with "motivations are easy to follow" then I guess we see how they operate at writers' meetings.



> 4. The show is a series of cliffhangers
> 5. It's uncynical and family friendly


BAHAHAHAHAHA! Did they say this with a straight face? In what way is this show *not*cynical? You have a group of psychopaths suppressing the entire population of the northeast and half of the midwest despite having minimal capability to travel effectively or communicate. And you have the massive population of the same area willing to give up on the entire concept of a democracy in a country founded on a rebellion against a much less grievous suppression.



> 6. It's aspirational
> 7. It made Billy Burke, Elizabeth Mitchell, and Giancarlo Esposito series regulars


#7 is basically the only reason I still watch. I wish the rest of the characters would be killed off.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Fassade said:


> Science fair memories -- they just need to carry around potatoes. Lots and lots of potatoes


Now you're just making the people on the show look stupid.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

wmcbrine said:


> I can't be the only one who thinks the amulets look like alien artifacts. I'd imagine a friendly alien or two who wasn't on board with the program provided them. Not unlikely at all.


And they conveniently decided to use usb for file transfer.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Polcamilla said:


> A) Those are some pretty slow-moving aliens if their strategy is to completely immobilize/neutralize humanity, then wait 15+ years to come collect our resources/enslave us. Daleks move faster than that!


As Rob says, I'm not positing them wanting our resources. It stops at the "neutralize" part. Job done, as far as the hypothetical aliens are concerned.

Alien invasion stories have always made too much of Earth's "resources" anyway. The truth is, there's nothing that special here. But xenophobic aliens who just don't want us around? I could maybe buy that.



> _B) You know that ever alien/alien artifact in every movie ever was designed by a human, right? What particularly makes those artifacts look more "alien" than any random amulet on Etsy?_


It's weird-looking?  I might say that it's overly decorative for such a functional object, but that could just be intended as disguise.



Stormspace said:


> And they conveniently decided to use usb for file transfer.


The amulets were made _by_ aliens, but _for_ us.

Anyway, like I said at the start, I doubt that the show will go this way. I just think it will turn out to make more sense than whatever they do come up with.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> Anyway, like I said at the start, I doubt that the show will go this way. I just think it will turn out to make more sense than whatever they do come up with.


You may be right. Despite the fact that your theory makes almost no sense.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

P.S. You could even put a different spin on it -- that, rather than xenophobia, the aliens were motivated by a desire to prevent us from destroying ourselves with our technology, or perhaps, from trashing our biosphere. (Earth's biology is one of the few things an alien really might find valuable.)


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And I'm still thinking it's script based. Certain forms of electricity are convenient not to work, so they don't work. Others are convenient to work, so they work.


I've come to the same conclusion.

I find it interesting we all have taken different things away from Maggie's iphone, but I'll give the disclaimer that while I thought it was a sloppy writing item, my whole theory is a guess, but I think a pretty safe one to make. I know for me every sign in the show points to the change in how electricity works being something we did but it got out of hand, and that's why the amulets counteract it and make things normal again.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> And they conveniently decided to use usb for file transfer.


USB = UNIVERSAL Serial Bus. Aliens use it, too, I'm sure.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> P.S. You could even put a different spin on it -- that, rather than xenophobia, the aliens were motivated by a desire to prevent us from destroying ourselves with our technology, or perhaps, from trashing our biosphere. (Earth's biology is one of the few things an alien really might find valuable.)


But strictly from a story-telling perspective, the reason why I think that would be a terrible, terrible cheat is that you're proposing the mystery revolves around the motivation of characters who haven't even been hinted at, much less introduced.

If a show is going to have a central mystery, then you have to at least be able to speculate as to what the solution might be without having to make stuff up (like aliens) to do it.

Of course, if the show itself is just making it up as it goes along, then I guess nothing really matters. But they insist that's not what they're doing.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

But the Cylons have a plan!


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

JYoung said:


> But the Cylons have a plan!


ROFLMAO


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

JYoung said:


> But the Cylons have a plan!


Don't remind us of that train wreck and the drunk that invented that phrase.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> Don't remind us of that train wreck and the drunk that invented that phrase.


If you use Firefox, type "about:robots" in the address bar.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> If you use Firefox, type "about:robots" in the address bar.


That just about sums it up...


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## Swirl_Junkie (Mar 11, 2001)

I've been recording this show since the premiere, but haven't watched an episode yet. I was wondering, would it be ok for a 10 year old? The common sense media website said it was pretty tame, but I don't want to spoil the show for myself, and wondered if it was ok for kids.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

The most objectionable thing we've seen so far is some swordfighting, shooting, and blood. People do get killed, but it's not graphic or gory. I don't recall any objectionable language or any sexual situations.

Basically, it's exactly what a US audience would find completely acceptable. A European audience would find it very violent, yet they'd have no problem with nudity and sex.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> People do get killed, but it's not graphic or gory. I don't recall any objectionable language or any sexual situations.


But next in the next ep (from the preview):


Spoiler



There almost certainly will be a sexual situation.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

cwerdna said:


> But next in the next ep (from the preview):
> * SPOILER *


SP re-established.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

danterner said:


> Maybe there are 12 different nullifiers, each dampening something specific (eg a nullifier that dampens all car batteries everywhere, a nullifier that dampens household electrical current, etc) and there are the 12 corresponding amulets that locally reverse that particular nullity. You need all 12 amulets together to stop all of the nullifiers. Bioelectrical impulses aren't affected, because there is no nullifier for it, particularly.


So will we find out about 7 of these nullifiers early on, but then not find out about the final five until the last season?


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> P.S. You could even put a different spin on it -- that, rather than xenophobia, the aliens were motivated by a desire to prevent us from destroying ourselves with our technology, or perhaps, from trashing our biosphere. (Earth's biology is one of the few things an alien really might find valuable.)


So....like some kind of Inverse Prime Directive?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

danterner said:


> SP re-established.


Bazinga...


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

danterner said:


> Maybe there are 12 different nullifiers, each dampening something specific (eg a nullifier that dampens all car batteries everywhere, a nullifier that dampens household electrical current, etc) and there are the 12 corresponding amulets that locally reverse that particular nullity. You need all 12 amulets together to stop all of the nullifiers. Bioelectrical impulses aren't affected, because there is no nullifier for it, particularly.


13 Amulets. The 13th however is either special in some way or defective, afterall it activates by itself. Maybe it's the one amulet to rule them all.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

Why does everyone think there are 13 amulets? I would assume that Grace's amulet was one of the 12.

Dave


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

mrdbdigital said:


> Why does everyone think there are 13 amulets? I would assume that Grace's amulet was one of the 12.
> 
> Dave


I'm saying 13, because of the way that it was created at the last minute. I think Ben's amulet is an unauthorized copy.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

mrdbdigital said:


> Why does everyone think there are 13 amulets? I would assume that Grace's amulet was one of the 12.
> 
> Dave


I thought it was just a joke regarding the Rings of Power from LotR. I don't think there is any real reason to speculate that more than 12 rings were made on this show so far.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> I'm saying 13, because of the way that it was created at the last minute. I think Ben's amulet is an unauthorized copy.


I think the fact that Ben had the hardware and a foreknowledge of the blackout shows that his wasn't unauthorized. I'm guessing everyone who had the amulet hardware quickly downloaded the necessary info right before the blackout happened.

Also, since we found out about the 12 amulets from Ben's wife, and since Ben's wife obviously knew about Ben's amulet, does she really think that divulging the existence of the amulets, yet keeping one of them secret, will stop Monroe? Now that he knows about the amulets, it won't really matter if there are 12 or 13. He'll be going after them.

The real questions are: When do we find out who "Randall" is, that apparently took Grace? And when do Miles and Charlie find out that Aaron has an amulet and what it can do?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> ...The real questions are: When do we find out who "Randall" is, that apparently took Grace? And when do Miles and Charlie find out that Aaron has an amulet and what it can do?


Or how do they work? What "set it off" to power up the iPhone? Can it be controlled or triggered?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Or how do they work? What "set it off" to power up the iPhone? Can it be controlled or triggered?


I got the impression that the center of the amulet was a button, and by pushing it, the amulet was activated. I thought Aaron accidentally pushed it when they were in Grace's house, which activated the Discman and the iPhone. No idea if this is what actually happened, but I didn't see any other explanation.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I got the impression that the center of the amulet was a button, and by pushing it, the amulet was activated. I thought Aaron accidentally pushed it when they were in Grace's house, which activated the Discman and the iPhone. No idea if this is what actually happened, but I didn't see any other explanation.


I inferred that they activate when near each other. Which could mean that assembling the 12 pieces in the style of every cliched video game ever would save the world.

I am also unclear what Ben did to his amulet just before the blackout. When I watched that scene I had assumed he put something on a shielded USB stick. That's how it played. Instead perhaps he updated the settings on his so it does something different.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I don't remember him pushing anything to turn it "on" and that is what confused me. It just seemed to start working for no reason.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

pmyers said:


> I don't remember him pushing anything to turn it "on" and that is what confused me. *It just seemed to start working for no reason.*


TV magic....


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I inferred that they activate when near each other. Which could mean that assembling the 12 pieces in the style of every cliched video game ever would save the world.





pmyers said:


> I don't remember him pushing anything to turn it "on" and that is what confused me. It just seemed to start working for no reason.


I didn't see anything to indicate that Aaron pushed the amulet. But given that Grace (and therefore her amulet) were likely long gone from the house, the only explanation I had for why Aaron's amulet started working was because he accidentally pushed the button.

Grace had previously been able to use her amulet without it being in the proximity of another, so I don't think two are required.



TAsunder said:


> I am also unclear what Ben did to his amulet just before the blackout. When I watched that scene I had assumed he put something on a shielded USB stick. That's how it played. Instead perhaps he updated the settings on his so it does something different.


I don't think we know what Ben did just before the blackout. I think we were supposed to assume that he downloaded something (either from the computer's hard drive or from the internet) just before he lost the ability to do so indefinitely. However, what exactly he obtained or stored in that USB key is still a mystery.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

Maybe we'll find out tonight?

Dave


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

mrdbdigital said:


> Maybe we'll find out tonight?
> 
> Dave


I won't since hurricane coverage is preempting all network shows.

Edit: NBC is airing their normal programs on their sub-channel, but that is in SD.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

morac said:


> I won't since hurricane coverage is preempting all network shows.
> 
> Edit: NBC is airing their normal programs on their sub-channel, but that is in SD.


They did the same thing here in the DC area. I plan on getting it from Amazon tomorrow. At least it should be in 1080P24 and DD 5.1. The sub channel here is only 480P and DD 2.0


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

On the West Coast, they are showing a new ep and in HD. TiVo's recording it now. I'll have to watch when I get a chance.


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## Polcamilla (Nov 7, 2001)

cwerdna said:


> On the West Coast, they are showing a new ep and in HD. TiVo's recording it now. I'll have to watch when I get a chance.


Just finished watching. I'd start a new thread but I'm too lazy too double-check the title and today's date.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Grace had previously been able to use her amulet without it being in the proximity of another, so I don't think two are required.


No, I agree. But it seemed like hers went on when mr shock stick came near. Could be remembering incorrectly.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I see Revolution episode 6 is already available to purchase from Amazon. I thought I would need to wait at least 24 hours. This works out much better since I'm home again today.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> I see Revolution episode 6 is already available to purchase from Amazon. I thought I would need to wait at least 24 hours. This works out much better since I'm home again today.


It's on VOD already as well. I actually watched last night on the sub-channel, but there were bits where the station screwed up and aired ads during the show. VOD doesn't allow fast forwarding though.


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