# Drive upgrades in a Premiere unit?



## jcostom

What can I say, I'm cheap. 

I don't see the value in the extra $200 to go from a 320GB drive to a 1TB drive (I already have a glow remote). Being a geek, however, I certainly want the 1+TB capacity in my TiVo.

When we first bought our THD, before I ever booted the unit, I popped the 160GB HD out and used it to image a new 1TB drive with the MFStools CD (still have the virgin 160GB HD at home in a static bag). Does that same process remain valid on a Premiere? Anybody know if we can go 1.5 or 2TB in these new units?

Thanks gang.


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## bkdtv

From the sticky at the top of the forum:



> *Will the internal hard drive be upgradable like past TiVos?*
> 
> Internal drive upgrades are not possible with existing tools. Tools such as WinMFS and MFSLive enable capacity on larger replacement drives by creating a new partition with the extra space. Prior TiVos recognized the new partition and used it to store recorded programs. The Premiere does not, so new methods must be found to utilize the added capacity on a replacement drive.
> 
> For now, Western Digitals My DVR Expander (1TB eSATA) is the only option to increase capacity.


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## jcostom

bkdtv said:


> From the sticky at the top of the forum:


Doh! Not sure how I missed that, especially since I read that post.  Thanks for the pointer..


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## matguy

jcostom said:


> Doh! Not sure how I missed that, especially since I read that post.  Thanks for the pointer..


Lots of us are interested in updates though, interestingly this was the first question my wife asked. Not sure if she asked because she was interested in it happening or just aware of my history *shrug*


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## Bsteenson

I am also interested in possibility of internal disk upgrade, but for now I'm going to be content with an external eSATA expander drive. For $129 from Amazon it's only a little more than a 1TB internal drive would cost, plus you get the full 1TB + 320GB instead of losing the original 320GB, plus the warranty stays intact, which might not be a bad thing on such a new product. Fingers crossed I don't have problems with an inconsistent connection between the Premiere and the expander that screws everything up.


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## jmill

TiVo has disabled the ability to "expand" drive space in Premiere. What this means is that current tools will not work until a new way is found to add larger drives.


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## Dr_Diablo

bkdtv said:


> From the sticky at the top of the forum:


whats that? bout 1200 of SD recordings?


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## Phantom Gremlin

Bsteenson said:


> I am also interested in possibility of internal disk upgrade, but for now I'm going to be content with an external eSATA expander drive.


If you're willing to trust WD, have I got a deal for you. I'll sell you my two flaky 500 GB expanders (for really cheap).

You'll need to test them yourself to see if they work with the Premiere. I'm sure that TiVo couldn't do any of their own testing with the 500 GB ones, because, *they probably couldn't find any that still work.*

Okay, I'm trying to make a serious point. Why waste money on a company that sells junk? Why trust WD? Why is TiVo in bed with them exclusively? I'm mad because I went the expander route, just like you're thinking of doing, and now I've already replaced one WD with a 1000 GB internal (not WD brand!) and will replace the other one shortly.

Right now, if I was considering the Premiere, and if I was sure I wanted more than 320 GB capacity, I'd just buy the Premiere XL. With the 3 year extended warranty. Because the odds are that you'll need to use it.


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## aaronwt

Phantom Gremlin said:


> If you're willing to trust WD, have I got a deal for you. I'll sell you my two flaky 500 GB expanders (for really cheap).
> 
> You'll need to test them yourself to see if they work with the Premiere. I'm sure that TiVo couldn't do any of their own testing with the 500 GB ones, because, *they probably couldn't find any that still work.*
> 
> Okay, I'm trying to make a serious point. Why waste money on a company that sells junk? Why trust WD? Why is TiVo in bed with them exclusively? I'm mad because I went the expander route, just like you're thinking of doing, and now I've already replaced one WD with a 1000 GB internal (not WD brand!) and will replace the other one shortly.
> 
> Right now, if I was considering the Premiere, and if I was sure I wanted more than 320 GB capacity, I'd just buy the Premiere XL. With the 3 year extended warranty. Because the odds are that you'll need to use it.


WD drives are generally very reliable. I've used well over 100 WD drives(I'm currently using over forty right now) and have no issues with them.
Granted I'm not using the WD expander, but the three WD external drives I use also have been fine for the last 2 or 3 years.


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## aaronwt

ferrumpneuma said:


> I don't know what to say.
> 
> How is it to their(tivo) advantage to stop a few nerds from upgrading the HD? It voids the warranty, I would think that would be a plus to the corporate types.:down::down::down:


Who said TiVo was stopping people from upgrading? Someone just needs to figure out how to do it with the Premiere.

For me, I've already decided I won't be opening my units. I got two XL units and the rest are the regular Premier. Plus I got the 3 year extended warranty on all of them.


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## SullyND

ferrumpneuma said:


> I don't know what to say.


Of course, you assume it was intentional.


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## turbobozz

ferrumpneuma said:


> Perhaps Tivo is trying to get in on weaknees and dvrupgrades business with a "TIVO approved" drop in internal drive. For evidence of this kind of behavior look at how the eSATA upgrade path evolved.


Not a chance.
There's no way TiVo will sell or officially approve a drop in internal drive.
There's an exposed power supply inside the box... they don't want the average consumer thinking they can open the box.


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## jmpage2

aaronwt said:


> Who said TiVo was stopping people from upgrading? Someone just needs to figure out how to do it with the Premiere.
> 
> For me, I've already decided I won't be opening my units. I got two XL units and the rest are the regular Premier. Plus I got the 3 year extended warranty on all of them.


I think we should wait and see what is possible before assuming anything. On the surface though this looks like intentional action to stop upgrades or make them much more difficult and sounds like exactly the kind of decision some guy in a suit made to sell more XL boxes.


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## ZeoTiVo

ferrumpneuma said:


> In the past Tivo has taken active effort to prevent tinkering with the software when people were doing to much cool stuff.


Moxi has never let you expand drives and then prevented it


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## jmpage2

ZeoTiVo said:


> Moxi has never let you expand drives and then prevented it


Considering that you can't swap out the internal drive in the Moxi for a larger one I'd say you are missing the mark here.

Adding more external drives is not something a lot of us want to do. It wastes power, etc.

Now if you can crack open the case on the Moxi and drop a shiny new 1.5TB disk into it it is news to me.


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## ascuser

No, actually that is what he was saying - that you can't do it; he just couldn't find any other way to name drop the Moxi. I'm pretty sure he is just messing with us now to see how many times he can mention the Moxi and in how many different threads. I guarantee you he is keeping a scorecard next to his computer.


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## rick123

I was upset at first (still somewhat) that Tivo is apparently abandoning the S3/HD interface development and major software upgrades to concentrate on the Premier. I was also concerned that Tivo had devalued the resale value on my units by putting out a newer unit that basically is exactly the same except for the upgraded hardware, HD interface and internet "interaction".

Now that I am reading that you (for now) cannot upgrade a Premier HD, I find my units have a greatly increased resale value IMO. If the premiere HD upgrade solution turns out to be external only, those of us with upgraded HDs and lifetime subs will find our S3s easy to sell for a premium price IMO.

I had given some thought to getting a Premiere, but I don't need the fancy (soon to be ad driven) interface right now and my units do basically all the rest of the stuff I want. I also have much more storage. I find my units with lifetime subs (especially the 1TB upgrade) just as valuable as a new 320 gb Premiere.


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## fatlard

jmpage2 said:


> Considering that you can't swap out the internal drive in the Moxi for a larger one I'd say you are missing the mark here.
> 
> Adding more external drives is not something a lot of us want to do. It wastes power, etc.
> 
> Now if you can crack open the case on the Moxi and drop a shiny new 1.5TB disk into it it is news to me.


Nope, as of right now you cannot added a 1.5TB drive to Moxi. They can be upgraded up to 6TB using eSATA drives.

However, the model of external drives in Moxi is very different from Tivo.

Moxi will let you use just about any SATA internal drive connected via an eSATA enclosure or a basic eSATA to SATA cable.

Furthermore, Moxi recordings are not stripped like Tivo. So you can add/remove external drives at will and not lose your recordings.

Or if you fill up the external drive .. you can unplug it and plug a new blank one to continue recording.


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## MickeS

fatlard said:


> Nope, as of right now you cannot added a 1.5TB drive to Moxi. They can be upgraded up to 6TB using eSATA drives.
> 
> However, the model of external drives in Moxi is very different from Tivo.
> 
> Moxi will let you use just about any SATA internal drive connected via an eSATA enclosure or a basic eSATA to SATA cable.
> 
> Furthermore, Moxi recordings are not stripped like Tivo. So you can add/remove external drives at will and not lose your recordings.


I wish TiVo would have gone this route too.

I am pretty sure someone will figure out how to upgrade the internal drive though. When the Series 3 came out, it wasn't user upgradeable at first either IIRC.


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## SullyND

jmpage2 said:


> On the surface though this looks like intentional action to stop upgrades or make them much more difficult and sounds like exactly the kind of decision some guy in a suit made to sell more XL boxes.


It could be, or the approach that they've taken to allow larger drives broke the existing utilities. It doubt TiVo has copies of WinMFS loaded for testing.


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## jmpage2

SullyND said:


> It could be, or the approach that they've taken to allow larger drives broke the existing utilities. It doubt TiVo has copies of WinMFS loaded for testing.


The specific issue if you look above is that TiVo's new software does not take advantage of a larger partition if it is available, something that TiVos have done forever.

I have a hard time believing that this went unnoticed by TiVo or that it was unintentional since it would even affect their own in-house testing where engineers typically have a stack of boxes on their desk that they want to swap drives in and out of.

This really smacks of an intentional decision that TiVo has made, to the detriment of modders everywhere, at least until some workaround is figured out (which could be never).


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## fatlard

jmpage2 said:


> The specific issue if you look above is that TiVo's new software does not take advantage of a larger partition if it is available, something that TiVos have done forever.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that this went unnoticed by TiVo or that it was unintentional since it would even affect their own in-house testing where engineers typically have a stack of boxes on their desk that they want to swap drives in and out of.
> 
> This really smacks of an intentional decision that TiVo has made, to the detriment of modders everywhere, at least until some workaround is figured out (which could be never).


Same issue we are running into with Moxi as well, we can create a backup. We can copy the Moxi on the to a larger harddrive. We just do not know how to tell Moxi to use the extra space on the internal drive.


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## yunlin12

Maybe Tivo is doing this to make their new platform look more secure to all the new partners that they are trying to sign up, like Comcast, DTV, Virgin, etc. Their old system is indeed wide open, anyone could pull the drive, tinker a couple of settings, turn off encryption, and boom, content is wide open. This can't sit very well with the new cable/satellite partners that Tivo is trying to sell their box into.


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## jfh3

yunlin12 said:


> Maybe Tivo is doing this to make their new platform look more secure to all the new partners that they are trying to sign up, like Comcast, DTV, Virgin, etc. Their old system is indeed wide open, anyone could pull the drive, tinker a couple of settings, turn off encryption, and boom, content is wide open. This can't sit very well with the new cable/satellite partners that Tivo is trying to sell their box into.


Umm, nope. You think you can "tinker" with a drive and turn off encryption?
No, all you can do is expand the storage partitions, not modify the code.


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## chrishicks

To bad Tivo wouldn't go the route of a box like the Popcorn Hour C-200 and just have an expansion bay. A user could just purchase any SATA drive, insert it in the bay, let Tivo format it and add it to the storage and bypass the external setup.


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## yunlin12

jfh3 said:


> Umm, nope. You think you can "tinker" with a drive and turn off encryption?
> No, all you can do is expand the storage partitions, not modify the code.


I meant people were able to do that with the older DirecTivos. IIRC, It wasn't as much as changing code, but there was a flag that sets is the recorded show is stored encrypted. Since DirecTivo's didn't have TTG, it took some doing to get the shows off of the box, but not as far as changing the code itself.

For standalone Tivo's we have TTG so getting shows off the Tivo is not a big deal, except, I don't know of anyone getting around the CC flag yet, maybe a code change is required here, if that's what you mean.


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## orangeboy

yunlin12 said:


> I meant people were able to do that with the older DirecTivos. IIRC, It wasn't as much as changing code, but there was a flag that sets is the recorded show is stored encrypted. Since DirecTivo's didn't have TTG, it took some doing to get the shows off of the box, but not as far as changing the code itself.
> 
> For standalone Tivo's we have TTG so getting shows off the Tivo is not a big deal, except, I don't know of anyone getting around the CC flag yet, maybe a code change is required here, if that's what you mean.


It is possible to disable/ignore CCI bytes with the standalone TiVos. I don't think it's easy enough for a novice to do, otherwise I'm sure you'd hear about the technique more often. I'm OTA only, so I have no concerns for such matters, and haven't looked fully into how to do it.


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## lessd

I think the big deal with the drives is the long term viability of the Premiere, people that have been using Lifetime Series 1s for 10 years or so have put in at least one or two drives to keep the unit running, I have fixed many TiVos for friends/family by just the replacement of the drive, sometimes without any added space. It is nice to know that if your hard drive goes bad you can replace it quickly at very low cost. I know that if tools to backup the Premiere are not possible i will stay with the Series 3 TiVo as my loss will only be the UI that i use about 1% of the time and i don't care that much about the rest if I can't ever repair the hard drive system without sending the TiVo back to TiVo itself for exchange. I may be in the monitory on this issue (I guess i should take a poll)


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## matguy

lessd said:


> I think the big deal with the drives is the long term viability of the Premiere, people that have been using Lifetime Series 1s for 10 years or so have put in at least one or two drives to keep the unit running, I have fixed many TiVos for friends/family by just the replacement of the drive, sometimes without any added space. It is nice to know that if your hard drive goes bad you can replace it quickly at very low cost. I know that if tools to backup the Premiere are not possible i will stay with the Series 3 TiVo as my loss will only be the UI that i use about 1% of the time and i don't care that much about the rest if I can't ever repair the hard drive system without sending the TiVo back to TiVo itself for exchange. I may be in the monitory on this issue (I guess i should take a poll)


I don't think the replacement is the issue, from what I understood you can put in any drive, but it only seems to recognize the size of the original image and ignores the "extra" space. (correct me if I'm wrong though.)


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## lessd

matguy said:


> I don't think the replacement is the issue, from what I understood you can put in any drive, but it only seems to recognize the size of the original image and ignores the "extra" space. (correct me if I'm wrong though.)


That is what is being said about the Moxi DVR, I know of nobody that has been able to back up the Premiere drive.


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## bkdtv

lessd said:


> That is what is being said about the Moxi DVR, I know of nobody that has been able to back up the Premiere drive.


WinMFS doesn't work, but I don't know that anyone has actually tried with other tools.

TiVo just started shipping its orders on Monday.


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## steve614

I bet someone will figure it out within a month after release.


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## orangeboy

steve614 said:


> I bet someone will figure it out within a month after release.


I hope so! I wanted to save a couple bucks, and opted for the non-XL, with the intention of getting a >=1TB drive at a later time. Now I'm kind of regretting my decision, if it can't be expanded internally. Plus I miss out on the cool glasses!


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## Dr_Diablo

Bsteenson said:


> I am also interested in possibility of internal disk upgrade, but for now I'm going to be content with an external eSATA expander drive. For $129 from Amazon it's only a little more than a 1TB internal drive would cost, plus you get the full 1TB + 320GB instead of losing the original 320GB, plus the warranty stays intact, which might not be a bad thing on such a new product. Fingers crossed I don't have problems with an inconsistent connection between the Premiere and the expander that screws everything up.


Sounds like the smart way to go for now, til we can use larger external drives

Wouldn't it be grand to have a 4 TB external drive to TRY an fill up?


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## rainwater

orangeboy said:


> I hope so! I wanted to save a couple bucks, and opted for the non-XL, with the intention of getting a >=1TB drive at a later time. Now I'm kind of regretting my decision, if it can't be expanded internally. Plus I miss out on the cool glasses!


I don't think a new format will stop upgrades from happening. It may be a few months, but a working solution will surely come out. The only way TiVo could block drive upgrades is to do the model number hack they use for eSATA drives (to force a certain model of eSATA drives). However, there haven't been any reports that this is the case and I highly doubt they would go that far.


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## steve614

rainwater said:


> I highly doubt they would go that far.


I hope you're right, but my view is Tivo wants to try and lock down their system.
Look at the DVR expander situation as an example. The only reason you can use any external HD with the original Series 3 is because someone found a loophole to get an expander drive working before Tivo could lock it down.
Since Tivo didn't want to upset the users who had already "expanded" their DVRs, they "grandfathered" the use of any external drive on the S3.
Notice how the TivoHD and now the Premiere is locked down to using only "approved" drives for expansion.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tivo locked down the internal drive somehow.


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## jmill

steve614 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tivo locked down the internal drive somehow.


This is exactly what TiVo did with Premiere, no more addiding additional partitions to expand the recording space.


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## zleep

jmill said:


> This is exactly what TiVo did with Premiere, no more addiding additional partitions to expand the recording space.


Do you have any evidence of this at all? The conspiracy theorist should go find their tin foil hats.


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## Bsteenson

steve614 said:


> ... Notice how the TivoHD and now the Premiere is locked down to using only "approved" drives for expansion.
> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tivo locked down the internal drive somehow.


This may be true of the Premiere (for now), but you can use any external eSATA drive with the HD by using the same tools you would use to add a bigger internal drive.

BS


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## turbobozz

steve614 said:


> I hope you're right, but my view is Tivo wants to try and lock down their system.
> Look at the DVR expander situation as an example. The only reason you can use any external HD with the original Series 3 is because someone found a loophole to get an expander drive working before Tivo could lock it down.
> Since Tivo didn't want to upset the users who had already "expanded" their DVRs, they "grandfathered" the use of any external drive on the S3.
> Notice how the TivoHD and now the Premiere is locked down to using only "approved" drives for expansion.
> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Tivo locked down the internal drive somehow.


I'm pretty sure no one found a loophole on the S3... TiVo told us how to use eSata on S3, and then properly decided it would be a bad idea to lockout people already using eSata drives *after* they made the information on how to use eSata public.

It's a fairly reasonable decision to only test and support specific upgrades. Locking others out is more towards the questionable end of the spectrum, but still fairly reasonable from a support perspective.


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## SullyND

turbobozz said:


> I'm pretty sure no one found a loophole on the S3... TiVo told us how to use eSata on S3


I thought someone "discovered" a key sequence required to enable it before it was live?


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## orangeboy

turbobozz said:


> I'm pretty sure no one found a loophole on the S3... TiVo told us how to use eSata on S3, and then properly decided it would be a bad idea to lockout people already using eSata drives *after* they made the information on how to use eSata public.
> 
> It's a fairly reasonable decision to only test and support specific upgrades. Locking others out is more towards the questionable end of the spectrum, *but still fairly reasonable from a support perspective.*


Exactly. Look at the number of wireless adapters supported through the different models. It's much easier for customer service and engineering to support a single TiVo branded wireless adapter. Just take a look at this page and think about what section you'd want to support!


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## rainwater

jmill said:


> This is exactly what TiVo did with Premiere, no more addiding additional partitions to expand the recording space.


Clearly it is possible since the XL ships with a larger drive than the standard Premiere. Again, it is only a matter of time until it is determined how to do it.


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## husky55

rainwater said:


> Clearly it is possible since the XL ships with a larger drive than the standard Premiere. Again, it is only a matter of time until it is determined how to do it.


If one has the XL HD, then it can be cloned to an equivalent or larger HD. The issue is if the extra storage space will be recognized.


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## lessd

husky55 said:


> If one has the XL HD, then it can be cloned to an equivalent or larger HD. The issue is if the extra storage space will be recognized.


How would on clone a Premiere drive ? as of now I don't think it is possible. If you know how let us in on it.


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## lew

zleep said:


> Do you have any evidence of this at all? The conspiracy theorist should go find their tin foil hats.





rainwater said:


> Clearly it is possible since the XL ships with a larger drive than the standard Premiere. Again, it is only a matter of time until it is determined how to do it.


Spike (author of winMFS) already posted in his forum mfslive.org

We're certainly free to speculate the reason tivo made changes which make it harder (or impossible) to increase internal capacity. It's not fair to attack the posters who accurately post information provided by Spike.

I'll ask zleep the same question he asked. Do you have any evidence which suggests Spike is wrong? Is he part of the tivo conspiracy?


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## zleep

lew said:


> I'll ask zleep the same question he asked. Do you have any evidence which suggests Spike is wrong? Is he part of the tivo conspiracy?


Tivo added a new partition for an SQLite data base. That causes grief for existing tools (mfslive,winmfs), which for legacy reasons want to expand by adding 2 new partitions.

There is zero evidence that TiVo did this to block hobbyist and 3rd party internal drive expansion. IMO, criticism of TiVo for making this change is way out of line.

Item 16 in the bkdtv's Premier Prerelease FAQ is misleading. TiVo did not remove any features related to recognizing expansion partitions. They did change their partition usage, and the tools need to adapt. That is all.


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## Jonathan_S

SullyND said:


> I thought someone "discovered" a key sequence required to enable it before it was live?


Yep, the kickstart 62 'trick'
See this old page on mfslive's site for the details.

It was only after that code was being used to add expansion drives in the wild that TiVo updated the S3 to play nice with any expansion drive w/o requiring the code.


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## lew

Spike (author of winMFS)



> Looks like TiVo Premiere won't let us expand beyond partition 14 so none of the tools will work at this point.
> We can't add partition pair like we been doing w/ Mfstools and Winmfs so we have to come up w/ new ways of adding more space.
> Only option at the moment is to add an eSATA drive.


*You're saying both Spike and bkdtv are posting inaccurate information but you aren't giving us any reason to believe your "facts"*

I agree we don't know why tivo made this change but that's different then denying the change was made.



zleep said:


> Tivo added a new partition for an SQLite data base. That causes grief for existing tools (mfslive,winmfs), which for legacy reasons want to expand by adding 2 new partitions.
> 
> There is zero evidence that TiVo did this to block hobbyist and 3rd party internal drive expansion. IMO, criticism of TiVo for making this change is way out of line.
> 
> Item 16 in the bkdtv's Premier Prerelease FAQ is misleading. TiVo did not remove any features related to recognizing expansion partitions. They did change their partition usage, and the tools need to adapt. That is all.


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## matguy

lessd said:


> How would on clone a Premiere drive ? as of now I don't think it is possible. If you know how let us in on it.


I wouldn't discount the possibility just because someone hasn't spoken out about doing a direct backup style copy yet, mostly because a direct backup style copy probably doesn't help anyone much yet (ie: it doesn't actually expand a drive.) Direct bit-for-bit drive duplicating is usually very easy and would probably work fine, from what it sounds like the Tivo hardware simply doesn't look for another partition past the factory ones.

Once I have my new Tivo in hand (should be tomorrow), I'll try duplicating the drive to a larger physical drive just to see if the bit-for-bit copy works fine; just for you! :up:


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## lew

People who want real information should go over to mfslive.org

http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1500
Spike went through the reasons why existing tools won't work. He suggests using dd_rescue if you want to make an exact duplicate to an extra 320G (or bigger) Sata drive. That will give you a working backup but won't increase your capacity.


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## lessd

matguy said:


> I wouldn't discount the possibility just because someone hasn't spoken out about doing a direct backup style copy yet, mostly because a direct backup style copy probably doesn't help anyone much yet (ie: it doesn't actually expand a drive.) Direct bit-for-bit drive duplicating is usually very easy and would probably work fine, from what it sounds like the Tivo hardware simply doesn't look for another partition past the factory ones.
> 
> Once I have my new Tivo in hand (should be tomorrow), I'll try duplicating the drive to a larger physical drive just to see if the bit-for-bit copy works fine; just for you! :up:


I was not trying to discount this possibility, just noting that nobody had done it yet, I will get my unit on Friday and try that myself when i have the time.


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## lew

lessd said:


> I was not trying to discount this possibility, just noting that nobody had done it yet, I will get my unit on Friday and try that myself when i have the time.


Les--Spike said dd_rescue (or dd) would make an exact copy of the drive. He suggested purcashing a 320Gig (or greater drive) and make a copy. Spike didn't say if he actually tried it but he didn't see the need to qualify his message.

edited to add this post is intended for others reading this thread. Les has posted in mfslive.org and should be aware of this.

I don't know the status of Lou's releationship with tivo. It's certainly possible a version of instant cake might be released so you can replace (but not upgrade) a defective internal drive.


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## jmill

lew said:


> Les--Spike said dd_rescue (or dd) would make an exact copy of the drive. He suggested purcashing a 320Gig (or greater drive) and make a copy. Spike didn't say if he actually tried it but he didn't see the need to qualify his message.
> 
> edited to add this post is intended for others reading this thread. Les has posted in mfslive.org and should be aware of this.
> 
> I don't know the status of Lou's releationship with tivo. It's certainly possible a version of instant cake might be released so you can replace (but not upgrade) a defective internal drive.


If I'm not mistaken, Lou uses MFSLive for his instant cake distros. Last time I spoke to TiVo, they explicitly did not authorize opening units and replacing drives. It is my understanding that Lou copies that 'spike' is doing and sells it for a profit.


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## Phantom Gremlin

aaronwt said:


> WD drives are generally very reliable. I've used well over 100 WD drives(I'm currently using over forty right now) and have no issues with them.
> Granted I'm not using the WD expander, but the three WD external drives I use also have been fine for the last 2 or 3 years.


I haven't done a failure analysis on the two WD expanders I have. But others have reported that it's mostly the *enclosure* that fails; the drive inside is still OK.

The details of what particular component failed aren't important to me. What is important is I "played by the rules". I bought 2 x expanders, at over $150 each IIRC, and now they're both dead, less than 2 years later.

The relevant text and logos on these boxes is:

*Western Digital*​
*TiVo VERIFIED*​
If you put your company name on *junk,* then you should expect criticism. This isn't just something I ran into; this is a widespread problem with these units. Plenty of commentary about this on TiVo Community.


----------



## donnoh

I'm happy to own two HDs and no Premiers.

I have the opportunity to increase the size of my hard drive, play back recorded shows in HD with no bugs and have a usable DVR.

Sorry for you that adopted the early release of Premier.


----------



## matguy

donnoh said:


> I'm happy to own two HDs and no Premiers.
> 
> I have the opportunity to increase the size of my hard drive, play back recorded shows in HD with no bugs and have a usable DVR.
> 
> Sorry for you that adopted the early release of Premier.


That was helpfull, thanks for that post. :up:


----------



## donnoh

matguy said:


> That was helpfull, thanks for that post. :up:


You're welcome, sorry you have a series 4.


----------



## lew

jmill said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Lou uses MFSLive for his instant cake distros. Last time I spoke to TiVo, they explicitly did not authorize opening units and replacing drives. It is my understanding that Lou copies that 'spike' is doing and sells it for a profit.


You are mistaken. I don't know if Lou starts with MFSLive. I know IC doesn't have a command line interface. I know IC includes tivo software. I know (at least at one time) Lou had permission from tivo to include software. I'm sure Lou will stop including tivo software if tivo revokes permission.

I'm curious to see if Lou gets permission to release IC for the Premier units.


----------



## jmill

lew said:


> You are mistaken. I don't know if Lou starts with MFSLive. I know IC doesn't have a command line interface. I know IC includes tivo software. I know (at least at one time) Lou had permission from tivo to include software. I'm sure Lou will stop including tivo software if tivo revokes permission.
> 
> I'm curious to see if Lou gets permission to release IC for the Premier units.


The point is that it is not very difficult to redo MFSLive in order to remove command prompt and make it user friendly. I can bet you quite a bit that until 'spike' figures a way to expand Premiere hard drives, you're not going to see anything from Lou.


----------



## lessd

lew said:


> Les--Spike said dd_rescue (or dd) would make an exact copy of the drive. He suggested purcashing a 320Gig (or greater drive) and make a copy. Spike didn't say if he actually tried it but he didn't see the need to qualify his message.
> 
> edited to add this post is intended for others reading this thread. Les has posted in mfslive.org and should be aware of this.
> 
> I don't know the status of Lou's releationship with tivo. It's certainly possible a version of instant cake might be released so you can replace (but not upgrade) a defective internal drive.


Spike did say that dd *should* work, my point is that nobody has posted that in fact it does work.
Who should be aware that i posted in mfslive and who would care, as I have never said anything derogatory in those posts


----------



## lew

lessd said:


> Spike did say that dd *should* work, my point is that nobody has posted that in fact it does work.
> Who should be aware that i posted in mfslive and who would care, as I have never said anything derogatory in those posts


The point is my post didn't provide any new information for you but may have provided new information for others reading this thread.

Spike didn't say it should work. He said you can use it to make an exact duplicate. 


> You can use dd or dd_rescue and make an exact duplicate of the drive but can't expand beyond it's factory capacity at this time.


----------



## daveak

matguy said:


> That was helpfull, thanks for that post. :up:


Was that an April Fools comment?


----------



## jmpage2

spike implies that it might be possible to eventually do drive expansion but the worrying part is that he says that additional added partitions are treated as external drives and then are unrecognized resulting in a reboot of the box.

This is bad news, it means that all the current tools are junk and some questions come in about how hard they have made it to expand the disc at all.


----------



## Finalrinse

matguy said:


> That was helpfull, thanks for that post. :up:


++1 :up:


----------



## Sasparilla

jmpage2 said:


> spike implies that it might be possible to eventually do drive expansion but the worrying part is that he says that additional added partitions are treated as external drives and then are unrecognized resulting in a reboot of the box.
> 
> This is bad news, it means that all the current tools are junk and some questions come in about how hard they have made it to expand the disc at all.


After reading the discussion over on MFSLive, I have to agree, it doesn't look very good. At least now I understand why you can't put a 2GB into an HD, but can in the HD XL. At least for the time being the HD XL is the internal capacity king since you can drop a 2GB into it.

If I was getting a Premiere and wanted the 1TB, I'd definitely get the XL as it could be a while before a way is figured out around this issue.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Sasparilla said:


> If I was getting a Premiere and wanted the 1TB, I'd definitely get the XL as it could be a while before a way is figured out around this issue.


I think that's good advice. But there's one other thing to remember. The Premiere appears to be *much much faster* at transferring files. Connecting a Premiere to a computer or NAS means essentially unlimited file storage (as long as you aren't using someone like TWC who marks most shows as copy protected).

So maybe even a Premiere is OK, no need to spend the extra $200 for the XL.


----------



## jmpage2

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I think that's good advice. But there's one other thing to remember. The Premiere appears to be *much much faster* at transferring files. Connecting a Premiere to a computer or NAS means essentially unlimited file storage (as long as you aren't using someone like TWC who marks most shows as copy protected).
> 
> So maybe even a Premiere is OK, no need to spend the extra $200 for the XL.


Sorry, but as long as TiVo uses the pull model for show programming and gives you no way to initiate transfer of a show FROM the TiVo to your network storage this is more hassle than it is worth.

Who wants to have to log into their PC, WHS, etc, just to transfer some shows over for later viewing or archiving?

It's silly, they need push/pull and stream support on the Premiere... like yesterday.


----------



## aaronwt

jmpage2 said:


> Sorry, but as long as TiVo uses the pull model for show programming and gives you no way to initiate transfer of a show FROM the TiVo to your network storage this is more hassle than it is worth.
> 
> Who wants to have to log into their PC, WHS, etc, just to transfer some shows over for later viewing or archiving?
> 
> It's silly, they need push/pull and stream support on the Premiere... like yesterday.


For the season passes it can be set up to transfer automatically. Most of my Season passes are setup that way. then I just delete it from TiVo Desktop if I don't want to keep it. That way automatically I have a copy available to transfer to a media player or burn to BD or DVD.


----------



## orangeboy

jmpage2 said:


> Sorry, but as long as TiVo uses the pull model for show programming and gives you no way to initiate transfer of a show FROM the TiVo to your network storage this is more hassle than it is worth.
> 
> Who wants to have to log into their PC, WHS, etc, just to transfer some shows over for later viewing or archiving?
> 
> It's silly, they need push/pull and stream support on the Premiere... like yesterday.


I use a combination of kmttg and pyTivo for a pretty much lights out (auto) transfer strategy.


----------



## jmpage2

orangeboy said:


> I use a combination of kmttg and pyTivo for a pretty much lights out (auto) transfer strategy.


Let me put it this way, I'm browsing the TiVo with the remote and notice something I might want to watch later, but it probably won't be for a while. My only option is to "do not delete" which chews up space.

There is no option to push the program to my network storage, even though the TiVo sees the storage device and all programs on it.

It's just kind of archaic and outdated way to handle management of network programs.


----------



## orangeboy

jmpage2 said:


> Let me put it this way, I'm browsing the TiVo with the remote and notice something I might want to watch later, but it probably won't be for a while. My only option is to "do not delete" which chews up space.
> 
> There is no option to push the program to my network storage, even though the TiVo sees the storage device and all programs on it.
> 
> It's just kind of archaic and outdated way to handle management of network programs.


And that's something I don't have to worry about because the program in question gets auto-transferred to my PC anyway, using kmttg. If and when I want to play it back, pyTivo is there serving it up. If you choose to ignore the tools that are available to do what you want, I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## innocentfreak

jmpage2 said:


> Let me put it this way, I'm browsing the TiVo with the remote and notice something I might want to watch later, but it probably won't be for a while. My only option is to "do not delete" which chews up space.
> 
> There is no option to push the program to my network storage, even though the TiVo sees the storage device and all programs on it.
> 
> It's just kind of archaic and outdated way to handle management of network programs.


The only thing I can say is if you want push as an option. Put it in the suggestions forum or fill out the survey in my signature or orangeboy's signature. It hasn't been updated last I checked to meet what has been added to the Premiere like picture in guide, but you can add your own suggestion.

I have never read of someone asking for a push option though I could see it being useful on slower transfers on older hardware which is probably why they never bothered adding it.

If you haven't looked at KMTTG you should. One of the great features added was a time delay on transfers. You can have it auto transfer shows that have been on your TiVo for so long so that it only transfers shows that might delete soon. For example on my old TiVo HD before I upgraded the drive I had it set for 20 hours. This way it transferred recordings from the night before if I hadn't deleted them but didn't bother transferring recordings from the same night.


----------



## aaronwt

jmpage2 said:


> Let me put it this way, I'm browsing the TiVo with the remote and notice something I might want to watch later, but it probably won't be for a while. My only option is to "do not delete" which chews up space.
> 
> There is no option to push the program to my network storage, even though the TiVo sees the storage device and all programs on it.
> 
> It's just kind of archaic and outdated way to handle management of network programs.


I see that after checking. I guess it is a bug with the HD menu. I can always hit the List button on my Harmony and it will go to the SD menu which still has the option to cahnge the date. This is a feature I don't use very often but only a couple of times a month.


----------



## jmpage2

I am not talking about using kmttg to archive all the episodes of a series (and yes, I've used kmttg and pytivo before). I am talking about seeing RANDOM programs in the suggested recordings that I want to save for later without havingto go schedule on another computer to copy it off of the TiVo. 

In a push model, not only would the TiVo initiate the transfer, it would also know when the transfer was successful and delete the local copy of the program automatically.


----------



## orangeboy

jmpage2 said:


> In a push model, not only would the TiVo initiate the transfer, it would also know when the transfer was successful and delete the local copy of the program automatically.


Sounds like you should follow this advice:


innocentfreak said:


> The only thing I can say is if you want push as an option. Put it in the suggestions forum or fill out the survey in my signature or orangeboy's signature. It hasn't been updated last I checked to meet what has been added to the Premiere like picture in guide, but you can add your own suggestion.


----------



## t1voproof

I would bet the people at Weaknees, DVRUpgrade and similar sites are working every day to get the upgrade problem solved.


----------



## MikeAndrews

SullyND said:


> I thought someone "discovered" a key sequence required to enable it before it was live?


There's no key sequence. There's just a tricky cable connector.

I added mine and it was recognized at boot.

I'm going to maxi-mod 2 x 1.5TB my new-to-me Woot Series 3 at the get go and put lifetime on it.

I couldn't live with less than 1TB on an HD Tivo.


----------



## SullyND

netringer said:


> There's no key sequence. There's just a tricky cable connector.


No, as was confirmed, there was a kickstart code which allowed external drives to be added to the S3 prior to TiVo releasing that feature.

It was Kickstart 62.


----------



## jmpage2

t1voproof said:


> I would bet the people at Weaknees, DVRUpgrade and similar sites are working every day to get the upgrade problem solved.


I'm sure they are, however hard work won't necessarily solve the problem.


----------



## ShinySteelRobot

lew said:


> Spike said dd_rescue (or dd) would make an exact copy of the drive. He suggested purcashing a 320Gig (or greater drive) and make a copy.


I'm new around here, and just looking for feedback from the experts here in the forum (thanks in advance!). Here goes...

I plan to get a Premiere XL and a "regular" Premiere. Also I'll get a 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green drive. My plan is to dd_rescue from the XL's 1TB drive onto the new 2TB WD Green drive, then pop that 2TB drive into the "regular" Premiere.

That should effectively give me two Premiere XL-size TiVos. The upgraded Premiere will only be able to use 1 TB of its 2 TB capacity, but I can live with that for now.

Later, when the MFS tools are updated for Series4, I'll upgrade the 2 TB drive to use its full capacity.

Does anyone see any flaws in that plan? Thx for any info.


----------



## DPF

I don't believe that plan has been verified yet. I seem to recall there being a reason that wasn't yet a viable path. The Premiere may not recognize the XL drive size during a boot up check or whatever. It may very well not work in a Premiere (base). At least not as of right now. 

If it does work, then we'd just need an image to get around the whole expanding a base premiere to 1Tb problem.

-DPF


----------



## Sy-

Does anyone have the model numbers for the drive inside the XL and Premieres? I plan on grabbing a couple drives on my way home tonight to make a backup of the drive in my XL. Plan on getting a 1tb drive just to verify that doing a dd will net a working copy. And plan on getting a 2tb to see what we can do about getting some more space in the box. Really just wondering if WD Greens will work... don't wanna be a few bits short!


----------



## CuriousMark

jmpage2 said:


> Let me put it this way, I'm browsing the TiVo with the remote and notice something I might want to watch later, but it probably won't be for a while. My only option is to "do not delete" which chews up space.
> 
> There is no option to push the program to my network storage, even though the TiVo sees the storage device and all programs on it.


Galleon has provided this feature for years.


----------



## lessd

Sy- said:


> Does anyone have the model numbers for the drive inside the XL and Premieres? I plan on grabbing a couple drives on my way home tonight to make a backup of the drive in my XL. Plan on getting a 1tb drive just to verify that doing a dd will net a working copy. And plan on getting a 2tb to see what we can do about getting some more space in the box. Really just wondering if WD Greens will work... don't wanna be a few bits short!


The XL used a WD green drive with APM set to 128 and time out to go to 5400RPM set to 8 Sec.


----------



## lew

I wouldn't think it would work. People tried using the HD XL software on a Tivo HD. The unit showed as having the wrong software when it called in and never got updated guide information.



ShinySteelRobot said:


> I'm new around here, and just looking for feedback from the experts here in the forum (thanks in advance!). Here goes...
> 
> I plan to get a Premiere XL and a "regular" Premiere. Also I'll get a 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green drive. My plan is to dd_rescue from the XL's 1TB drive onto the new 2TB WD Green drive, then pop that 2TB drive into the "regular" Premiere.
> 
> That should effectively give me two Premiere XL-size TiVos. The upgraded Premiere will only be able to use 1 TB of its 2 TB capacity, but I can live with that for now.
> 
> Later, when the MFS tools are updated for Series4, I'll upgrade the 2 TB drive to use its full capacity.
> 
> Does anyone see any flaws in that plan? Thx for any info.


----------



## DPF

Right, it may work when you fire it up, but when it dials in and shows the XL -748 software version versus -746 for the base Premiere, nothing gets downloaded.

That's the hook I was trying to remember.

-DPF


----------



## ShinySteelRobot

DPF said:


> Right, it may work when you fire it up, but when it dials in and shows the XL -748 software version versus -746 for the base Premiere, nothing gets downloaded.


THANK YOU for the advice. You saved me from failing at an expensive experiment. 

For now I'll just get a Premiere and a Premiere XL and skip the extra drive until the software wizards figure out the right incantations to upgrade the Series4 drives. I think I'll be really happy with this pair. It will be a huge upgrade over my 5 year old DirecTV TiVo HD -- especially now that DirecTV has turned off all the legacy MP2 high def channels, effectively making the DirecTV TiVo HD into an SD box. Seems retarded that DirecTV turned off all the DirecTiVo HD-capable channels without releasing a new MP4-capable Series4 DirecTiVo first...I guess that's DirecTV's way of moving me onto cable.


----------



## Sy-

lessd said:


> That is what is being said about the Moxi DVR, I know of nobody that has been able to back up the Premiere drive.


I was able to back up my premiere xl drive last night using dd and another 1tb wd green drive (as well as a lot of patience). I have the drive in the machine now. Even did a service update to make sure everything is ok. Now the original HD is on the shelf incase I ever need it.

So apparently the units are not locked to the drives... Now on to step 2.... Let's see what we can do about expanding the drive onto a 2tb green drive...


----------



## weaknees

Just an update from weaKnees - we've made some pretty good progress.

I can't go into details for competitive reasons, but our efforts seem to be working:

http://www.wkblog.com/tivo/2010/04/weaknees-upgrades-the-tivo-premiere-to-4tb/


----------



## orangeboy

weaknees said:


> Just an update from weaKnees - we've made some pretty good progress.
> 
> I can't go into details for competitive reasons, but our efforts seem to be working:
> 
> http://www.wkblog.com/tivo/2010/04/weaknees-upgrades-the-tivo-premiere-to-4tb/


Nice work!!! :up:

So 3TB is the max for non-XL (1.5 internal, 1.5 external)?


----------



## weaknees

orangeboy said:


> Nice work!!! :up:
> 
> So 3TB is the max for non-XL (1.5 internal, 1.5 external)?


Nope - that screen shot is from a non-XL unit. The wording may be misleading - we just meant we'll have smaller upgrades also.


----------



## orangeboy

weaknees said:


> Nope - that screen shot is from a non-XL unit. The wording may be misleading - we just meant we'll have smaller upgrades also.


Ah yes... I see the 746 in the software version and TSN now. Hats off "to the one largely responsible!"


----------



## weaknees

orangeboy said:


> Ah yes... I see the 746 in the software version and TSN now. Hats off "to the one largely responsible!"


Yes - we agree. He's the guy who makes this possible!


----------



## jmpage2

Weaknees, 

Will this workaround be made available to the general user community in the form of a tool kit or will it only be utilized for upgrades from Weaknees store?


----------



## weaknees

Again, for competitive reasons, we are unlikely to be releasing the tools publicly.


----------



## paladin732

Heres a question:

Why is it not possible to just modify the size of the factory-default storage partition?

I would think it should be possible to make a direct bit-by-bit copy of all the data on EACH of the partitions on the standard image, then, wipe the tivo drive and push a NEW partition table with the (factory default) storage partition expanded to utilize the full size of the drive and the rest of the partitions containing the bit-by-bit copy of the original data.

Why would that not work?


----------



## lessd

paladin732 said:


> Heres a question:
> 
> Why is it not possible to just modify the size of the factory-default storage partition?
> 
> I would think it should be possible to make a direct bit-by-bit copy of all the data on EACH of the partitions on the standard image, then, wipe the tivo drive and push a NEW partition table with the (factory default) storage partition expanded to utilize the full size of the drive and the rest of the partitions containing the bit-by-bit copy of the original data.
> 
> Why would that not work?


What do you think TiVo does, the idea is to have tools to make any process easy for people on this form to use, we don't know how easy it is for Weaknees to do this expansion, it may be a multi step process for them, for the Series 3 all you needed was an image of less than 400Mb and you could expand the system and we had the tools to make (or buy) that image. The tools to do this Series 4 expansion will most likely come at some time in the future, but until than Weaknees can take the competitive advantage of having it first and having them all to themselves, I don't hold this against them.


----------



## gweempose

lessd said:


> The tools to do this Series 4 expansion will most likely come at some time in the future, but until then Weaknees can take the competitive advantage of having it first and having them all to themselves, I don't hold this against them.


Nobody should hold it against them. It's just good business.


----------



## orangeboy

lessd said:


> What do you think TiVo does, the idea is to have tools to make any process easy for people on this form to use, we don't know how easy it is for Weaknees to do this expansion, it may be a multi step process for them, for the Series 3 all you needed was an image of less than 400Mb and you could expand the system and we had the tools to make (or buy) that image. The tools to do this Series 4 expansion will most likely come at some time in the future, but until than Weaknees can take the competitive advantage of having it first and having them all to themselves, I don't hold this against them.


I was curious about using MS's dskprobe.exe (or something equivalent) to 'zap' the partition table, updating the partition's last block and number of blocks. I'm pretty sure though that that would not be easy for people to do...


----------



## lew

lessd said:


> What do you think TiVo does, the idea is to have tools to make any process easy for people on this form to use, we don't know how easy it is for Weaknees to do this expansion, it may be a multi step process for them, for the Series 3 all you needed was an image of less than 400Mb and you could expand the system and we had the tools to make (or buy) that image. The tools to do this Series 4 expansion will most likely come at some time in the future, but until than Weaknees *can take the competitive advantage of having it first and having them all to themselves*, I don't hold this against them.


Agreed.

I suspect software upgrades could be designed not to work if a customer has an upgraded hard drive. Tivo might be less likely to take this action if a significant number of customers have already upgraded their drives. Sort of what happened with the unsupported external drives with the S3. Tivo might not have the same philosophy if only a small number of Weaknees customers are affected.

JMO but the more customers who upgrade their drives the less likely tivo will try to stop them.

I don't think the competitve advantage will last very long. At a minimum some ebayers will start selling drives. The only question is if the technique lends itself to a tool like winMFS or the DIY will be more hands on.


----------



## gweempose

lew said:


> I don't think the competitive advantage will last very long ...


I agree with you on that one. The community is simply chock full of highly talented people when it comes to this sort of thing. Not to disparage WeaKnees, but if they can do it, others surely can as well.


----------



## weaknees

gweempose said:


> I agree with you on that one. The community is simply chock full of highly talented people when it comes to this sort of thing. Not to disparage WeaKnees, but if they can do it, others surely can as well.


No offense taken. We expect we'll see others out there as well.


----------



## dewd2

gweempose said:


> Nobody should hold it against them. It's just good business.


Really? I disagree. I tend to stay away from secretive, closed companies when I have a choice. And I know I'm not alone.


----------



## gweempose

dewd2 said:


> Really? I disagree. I tend to stay away from secretive, closed companies when I have a choice. And I know I'm not alone.


Are you kidding me? Their main source of revenue is hard drive upgrades. If they can figure out how to upgrade the Premieres before their competitors can, why on Earth shouldn't they take advantage of that situation? Are you suggesting that they should share the information with everybody just to be nice?


----------



## dewd2

No, I am not 'kidding you'. 

So why did they not go out of business over the past few years when everyone knew their secret? With your logic, they should have....


----------



## gweempose

dewd2 said:


> So why did they not go out of business over the past few years when everyone knew their secret? With your logic, they should have....


Actually, that's not my logic at all.


----------



## dewd2

gweempose said:


> Actually, that's not my logic at all.


Then what is your logic? If they thrived before what makes it different now?


----------



## T1V0

dewd2 said:


> No, I am not 'kidding you'.
> 
> So why did they not go out of business over the past few years when everyone knew their secret? With your logic, they should have....


It was never even 'their' secret. weaknees didn't develop mfstools, Tiger did.

There's NO way these 'new tools' are not based upon previous ones either...


----------



## gweempose

dewd2 said:


> Then what is your logic? If they thrived before what makes it different now?


Companies such as WeaKnees and DVRUpgrade sell a lot of hard drive upgrades simply because some people would rather not do it themselves. Just because the knowledge is out there doesn't mean that everyone has the time, skill, or inclination to act upon it. If Weaknees starts offering upgraded S4 drives before everyone else, they will temporarily have an edge over the competition. Even if they only manage to sell a single drive before the procedure becomes common knowledge, that's still one drive that they may not have sold otherwise. Let's not forget, they are a business. Aren't businesses supposed to try to maximize their profits?


----------



## dewd2

gweempose said:


> Companies such as WeaKnees and DVRUpgrade sell a lot of hard drive upgrades simply because some people would rather not do it themselves. Just because the knowledge is out there doesn't mean that everyone has the time, skill, or inclination to act upon it. If Weaknees starts offering upgraded S4 drives before everyone else, they will temporarily have an edge over the competition. Even if they only manage to sell a single drive before the procedure becomes common knowledge, that's still one drive that they may not have sold otherwise. Let's not forget, they are a business. Aren't businesses supposed to try to maximize their profits?


Yes, I agree they need to make a profit. They also need to live in the community they sell to. I also have no issue using someone else's freely available work to sell your product. I do have an issue when a business is built on that work, the work is enhanced and then kept private (I just realized I'm starting to sound like Richard Stallman - please shoot me now  ).

You are correct that most folks will not upgrade the capacity themselves, and that's why it is good to have companies like WeaKnees.


----------



## jmill

dewd2 said:


> Yes, I agree they need to make a profit. They also need to live in the community they sell to. I also have no issue using someone else's freely available work to sell your product. I do have an issue when a business is built on that work, the work is enhanced and then kept private (I just realized I'm starting to sound like Richard Stallman - please shoot me now  ).
> 
> You are correct that most folks will not upgrade the capacity themselves, and that's why it is good to have companies like WeaKnees.


dewd2,

You obviously don't want to pay for the drive upgrade and expect to get tools for free. No need to blame Weakness because of that.

If you're so dedicated to the community, develop your own tools and share. Otherwise, stop your pointless replies.


----------



## dewd2

jmill said:


> dewd2,
> 
> You obviously don't want to pay for the drive upgrade and expect to get tools for free. No need to blame Weakness because of that.
> 
> If you're so dedicated to the community, develop your own tools and share. Otherwise, stop your pointless replies.


Now you're kidding me. You have no idea what I will pay for and what I will not. Stop by my house sometime and see some of my toys. Besides, I never said I would upgrade my drive weather free or not.

You also have no concept of what I'm talking about.


----------



## lew

jmill said:


> dewd2,
> 
> You obviously don't want to pay for the drive upgrade and expect to get tools for free. No need to blame Weakness because of that.
> 
> If you're so dedicated to the community, develop your own tools and share. Otherwise, stop your pointless replies.


I don't have a problem with what Weaknees is doing. That said

You're missing the point made by a pp. Companies like Weaknees are using tools developed by others. Said tools were made available for free. Tiger wrote the original MFSTools. Spike wrote updated tools. Some people think individuals that make changes to tools that are made freely available have an ethical obligation to make their changes available. Weaknees isn't starting with original work. The "heavy lifting" was done by others. I suspect whatever technique Weaknees uses won't be a secret for very long. The question is how complicated (how many steps) for DIYers.


----------



## gweempose

I don't think WeaKnees ever claimed that they invented the upgrade techniques that they use. They are merely providing a service, and it's up to the consumer to decide if it's worth it for them to pay WeaKnees what they are charging for that service.


----------



## lew

gweempose said:


> I don't think WeaKnees ever claimed that they invented the upgrade techniques that they use. They are merely providing a service, and it's up to the consumer to decide if it's worth it for them to pay WeaKnees what they are charging for that service.


Weaknees is claiming the tools they'll be using to upgrade the new Premier units is proprietary and probably won't be made public.

I have no problem with their decision.

I appreciate the fact that others have a different opinion. Some people think a company tht has no trouble freely using the works of others should reciprocate by making public changes and techniques they develop.

Regardless whatever Weaknees is doing will wind up being publicly known shortly after it's released.


----------



## rainwater

lew said:


> I suspect software upgrades could be designed not to work if a customer has an upgraded hard drive. Tivo might be less likely to take this action if a significant number of customers have already upgraded their drives. Sort of what happened with the unsupported external drives with the S3.


TiVo only required a certain brand of eSATA drives on the TiVo HD because of a business deal with Western Digital (like you said they relented on the S3 since they already allowed them). Since they aren't in the business of selling internal drives, it doesn't make any business sense to block internal drive upgrades.


----------



## lew

rainwater said:


> , it doesn't make any business sense to block internal drive upgrades.


Blocking internal upgrades may result in more Premiere XL sales. Most of us think the XL unit has a higher profit margin then the base unit.

Blocking internal upgrades may result in more sales of the external DVR expander. I'm not sure how much tivo makes from them.

Blocking internal upgrades will stop customers who attempt to get a warranty repair when they screw up. A few of us still tell posters opening your tivo voids the warranty. Followup posters suggest tivo doesn't have an issue. Put your old drive back and call for service. Tell them tivo looks at the uploaded logs and they'll tell you tivo rarely looks at them.

Based on the posts from weaknees tivo didn't really block internal upgrades but rather existing tools and techniques aren't working.


----------



## orangeboy

lew said:


> [...]
> Weaknees isn't starting with original work. The "heavy lifting" was done by others. I suspect whatever technique Weaknees uses won't be a secret for very long. The question is how complicated (how many steps) for DIYers.


I don't know if that can be said in the case of the Premiere's drive upgrades. It may be, but since the other tools (so far) haven't worked on the Premiere drives, it's possible that the folks at Weaknees started from scratch, and did all the heavy lifting themselves. It sounds like one individual over there thought outside of the box, and found the solution before the others. Or maybe Spike or Tiger did indeed tip Weaknees off, and settled for a slice of their pie in return...


----------



## T1V0

orangeboy said:


> I don't know if that can be said in the case of the Premiere's drive upgrades. It may be, but since the other tools (so far) haven't worked on the Premiere drives, it's possible that the folks at Weaknees started from scratch, and did all the heavy lifting themselves. It sounds like one individual over there thought outside of the box, and found the solution before the others. Or maybe Spike or Tiger did indeed tip Weaknees off, and settled for a slice of their pie in return...


The reason older tools do not work is because there is a new SQLlite db stuck in partition 14. Everything else is identical to previous models. I restate, that there is NO way that they did not build off of previous tools.


----------



## steve614

I agree that the solution will be known by all soon enough.
Even if weaknees is first, it won't be long before someone reverse-engineers one of their drives and makes the solution public.


----------



## orangeboy

T1V0 said:


> The reason older tools do not work is because there is a new SQLlite db stuck in partition 14. Everything else is identical to previous models. I restate, that there is NO way that they did not build off of previous tools.


That's fine. I'm completely ignorant to the ins & outs of drive expansion, and the layout of the TiVo's drives (and it sounds like you're not). But unless you have first hand knowledge of how Weaknees was able to accomplish what the others haven't (yet), it's only speculation on your part about what Weaknees did or didn't do.

And don't think that I'm saying you're wrong. Weaknees may announce that their technique was based on <enter tool name here>.


----------



## lew

T1V0 said:


> The reason older tools do not work is because there is a new SQLlite db stuck in partition 14. Everything else is identical to previous models. I restate, that there is NO way that they did not build off of previous tools.


Your information is false. You can refer to posts earlier in this thread or Spikes posts on mfslive.org if you want to read details.


----------



## FairfaxCA

Bsteenson said:


> I am also interested in possibility of internal disk upgrade, but for now I'm going to be content with an external eSATA expander drive. For $129 from Amazon it's only a little more than a 1TB internal drive would cost, plus you get the full 1TB + 320GB instead of losing the original 320GB, plus the warranty stays intact, which might not be a bad thing on such a new product. Fingers crossed I don't have problems with an inconsistent connection between the Premiere and the expander that screws everything up.


 Is this correct? If you add the external 1TB drive you end up with 1.32TB of storage?


----------



## aaronwt

yes

or 2TB with the XL.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

steve614 said:


> I agree that the solution will be known by all soon enough.
> Even if weaknees is first, it won't be long before someone reverse-engineers one of their drives and makes the solution public.


In the meantime, weaKnees should take their time filling orders from individuals named Dvr Upgrade and Dvr Dude.


----------



## johnm4

lew said:


> . Companies like Weaknees are using tools developed by others. Said tools were made available for free. Tiger wrote the original MFSTools. Spike wrote updated tools. Some people think individuals that make changes to tools that are made freely available have an ethical obligation to make their changes available.


I also don't have a problem with them capitalizing on their efforts before others figure it out.

Just a subtle point - The people who wrote and modified those original tools had a choice as to how to release those tools. I have no idea if they attached a license or not. Maybe they were released into public domain. If the had chosen a copyleft license, like GPL, then any derivative works would need to be also released under GPL in order to comply.


----------



## jmill

Phantom Gremlin said:


> In the meantime, weaKnees should take their time filling orders from individuals named Dvr Upgrade and Dvr Dude.


Priceless!


----------



## lessd

Phantom Gremlin said:


> In the meantime, weaKnees should take their time filling orders from individuals named Dvr Upgrade and Dvr Dude.


To late DVR-Dude just posted the 1Tb drive update for the P-746320 on E-Bay http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Hard-Drive-Upgrade-TiVo-Premiere-New-P-P-1TB_W0QQitemZ260582994623QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3cabf4f2bf


----------



## gamo62

lessd said:


> To late DVR-Dude just posted the 1Tb drive update for the P-746320 on E-Bay http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Hard-Drive-Upgrade-TiVo-Premiere-New-P-P-1TB_W0QQitemZ260582994623QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3cabf4f2bf


Not a bad price at all. Wished the 2TB was available.


----------



## steve614

lessd said:


> To late DVR-Dude just posted the 1Tb drive update for the P-746320 on E-Bay http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Hard-Drive-Upgrade-TiVo-Premiere-New-P-P-1TB_W0QQitemZ260582994623QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3cabf4f2bf




Contact Jack Bauer! Weaknees has a mole!


----------



## armstrr

gamo62 said:


> Not a bad price at all. Wished the 2TB was available.


you were saying?.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Hard-Drive...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3cabf5278f


----------



## i2k

NICE! and it starts  2TB internal. Now that is sweet.


----------



## DPF

The fact that my laziness knows no bounds may yet pay off!

By the time I get around to wanting to upgrade this piece, a DIY option may just be available.

Interesting.

-DPF


----------



## wesbc

armstrr said:


> you were saying?.......
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-Hard-Drive...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3cabf5278f


I'm more interested in a 1.5TB option....


----------



## KenVa

wesbc said:


> I'm more interested in a 1.5TB option....


Yeah your right who wants a 2TB if you can get a 1.5TB


----------



## wesbc

KenVa said:


> Yeah your right who wants a 2TB if you can get a 1.5TB


Mostly because I have several 1.5TB drive laying around. LOL. I suppose the upgrade is possible for any size drive. Also I just can't fantom myself using up all 2TB drive space. 1TB is probably more then what I would need.


----------



## KenVa

wesbc said:


> Mostly because I have several 1.5TB drive laying around. LOL. I suppose the upgrade is possible for any size drive. Also I just can't fantom myself using up all 2TB drive space. 1TB is probably more then what I would need.


I definitely can use the space> I'm already having space issues on a Tivo HD with a 1TB drive. I would love to put a 2TB in my new Premiere, that is when it becomes reliable enough to really use.


----------



## 1idjack

Question for Sy-
How long did that 1Tb copy take? and exactly what model of WD drive is Tivo using in the Premiere?


----------



## armstrr

wesbc said:


> Mostly because I have several 1.5TB drive laying around. LOL. I suppose the upgrade is possible for any size drive. Also I just can't fantom myself using up all 2TB drive space. 1TB is probably more then what I would need.


i had a tivo HD with a 2 tb and i still have a series 3 with 2tb. (both from dvr dude) the great thing is you can record series you sort of kinda want to watch, but there are soooo many that you don't have time...then when summer rolls around and you're laying around flicking finding nothing to watch, you can catch up on the series you saved. i also have one of my tivos set up to record ALL HD movies. i don't have to worry about running out of space. i can also stand to leave a bunch of other shows on the tivo that i have already watched...then if the kids or friends have missed an episode or something, it is there. don't worry, if you have the space, you will find a good use!


----------



## rainbow

I have a premiere lifetime w/3yr extended warranty.

Would it be smart to try to do a trunacated back up before the hd gets loaded with alot stuff, just for protection? 

(I am assuming that can/might be able to be done w/current winmfs, but am not sure ... yet I did read thru all of this thread before posting).


----------



## lessd

rainbow said:


> I have a premiere lifetime w/3yr extended warranty.
> 
> Would it be smart to try to do a trunacated back up before the hd gets loaded with alot stuff, just for protection?
> 
> (I am assuming that can/might be able to be done w/current winmfs, but am not sure ... yet I did read thru all of this thread before posting).


That would very smart, to bad the current tools will not work.


----------



## rainbow

lessd said:


> That would very smart, to bad the current tools will not work.


ok, I know this thread was about upgrading the hd, but I did not see anywhere where it spelled out that you couldn't just make a copy of the prgm. ... now i know


----------



## lessd

rainbow said:


> ok, I know this thread was about upgrading the hd, but I did not see anywhere where it spelled out that you couldn't just make a copy of the prgm. ... now i know


You can make a full copy of the total disk on the same or bigger hard drive that is in your S4 using DD-rescue, someone has done that and said it works.


----------



## Onibroc42

I'm just guessing here, but wasn't the problem back in the day that there are only 15 entries available in the partition table, which is why you could only do one drive upgrade and keep all programs?

I suspect the final answer will be in stretching the app/data partition pair and moving the new database partition. But you'd lose all programs in the process.

Has anyone tried something like that to put 2 TB into an HD?


----------



## ShinySteelRobot

Looks like Weaknees' upgraded Premieres are now on sale according to their blog.

Hopefully that means that drive upgrade kits will be available soon...?


----------



## gweempose

ShinySteelRobot said:


> Looks like Weaknees' upgraded Premieres are now on sale according to their blog.


Anybody gonna rush out and grab one of the 4 Terabyte units for $1150?


----------



## matguy

gweempose said:


> Anybody gonna rush out and grab one of the 4 Terabyte units for $1150?


So, let's put this together.

2TB hard drive = about $150
another 2TB hard drive = about $150
WD MyDVR Expander 500GB = about $100 (yeah, throw away the drive)
Tivo XL = $499

$999

Obviously it's quite possible they're not using the WD MyDVR Expander, and it's also quite possible they're getting bulk/whosale rates on the hardware, but for us to do the same thing, you're looking at about $1000, and that's ignoring labor, software, supporting hardware to do the drive image with (ya know, a PC with 2 open SATA ports.)

So, they're making probably about $200-300 on each unit to recoup their R&D costs. Well, plus they may make up some on the back end selling off the almost-new hard drives pulled out of the Tivo's.


----------



## lessd

matguy said:


> So, let's put this together.
> 
> 2TB hard drive = about $150
> another 2TB hard drive = about $150
> WD MyDVR Expander 500GB = about $100 (yeah, throw away the drive)
> Tivo XL = $499
> 
> $999
> 
> Obviously it's quite possible they're not using the WD MyDVR Expander, and it's also quite possible they're getting bulk/whosale rates on the hardware, but for us to do the same thing, you're looking at about $1000, and that's ignoring labor, software, supporting hardware to do the drive image with (ya know, a PC with 2 open SATA ports.)
> 
> So, they're making probably about $200-300 on each unit to recoup their R&D costs. Well, plus they may make up some on the back end selling off the almost-new hard drives pulled out of the Tivo's.


Why use the TPXL as you get the same thing with TP for $200 less.


----------



## robm15

lessd said:


> Why use the TPXL as you get the same thing with TP for $200 less.


I think he was just keeping the hardware the same as what Weaknees is selling. It is the PXL that is being sold for $1150.


----------



## matguy

lessd said:


> Why use the TPXL as you get the same thing with TP for $200 less.





robm15 said:


> I think he was just keeping the hardware the same as what Weaknees is selling. It is the PXL that is being sold for $1150.


Yep, Weaknees sells both versions, the standard Premiere version with 4TB for $999.99 and the XL version with 4TB for $1149.99 (oooh, glowing/learning remote and a THX logo!)


----------



## cr33p

Is it possible to use the 500gb My DVR Expander on the new Premiere unit?


----------



## gweempose

cr33p said:


> Is it possible to use the 500gb My DVR Expander on the new Premiere unit?


Yes. Both the 500 GB and 1 TB models will work with the Premiere.


----------



## innocentfreak

matguy said:


> So, they're making probably about $200-300 on each unit to recoup their R&D costs. Well, plus they may make up some on the back end selling off the almost-new hard drives pulled out of the Tivo's.


They really should include the original drive as a backup at those prices.


----------



## lew

Staples charges $30 just to install a software program on your computer. The Geek Squad charges $130 just to diagnose the problem with your computer. 

Weaknees not only guarantees their work but is also replacing tivo's factory warranty which is voided.

Considering the quantity of drives they'll be purchasing their price is about the same, or maybe even a little higher, then the prices we pay when we shop for whatever vendor has the best current promotional pricing.

They have to cover their overhead over a relatively small number of units sold. 

There has always been a premium price when purchasing upgraded tivos from real vendors. Conside what places like the Geek Squad charge just to install a new hard in your computer. Really no gouging going on.

Many members of TCF will wait for a DIY alternative and save a few hundred dollars. Other customers don't want to wait and/or want a no hastle solution.


----------



## MickeS

I have to say, a 4 TB capacity (I just have to say that again: four terabyte!!) TiVo pre-installed and ready to go for $1k doesn't sound bad at all... good work WeakNees.


----------



## gweempose

Can you imagine how mad you would be if your TiVo crashed with 4 terabytes of recordings on it.


----------



## scoombs

matguy said:


> 2TB hard drive = about $150
> another 2TB hard drive = about $150
> WD MyDVR Expander 500GB = about $100 (yeah, throw away the drive)
> Tivo XL = $499
> 
> $999


Not to quibble, but my calculator adds that up to $899.


----------



## SullyND

gweempose said:


> Can you imagine how mad you would be if your TiVo crashed with 4 terabytes of recordings on it.


Or if TiVo decides to disable it (either intentionally or unintentionally)


----------



## hoyty

MickeS said:


> I have to say, a 4 TB capacity (I just have to say that again: four terabyte!!) TiVo pre-installed and ready to go for $1k doesn't sound bad at all... good work WeakNees.


To me this seems especially true since I paid $1000 for a HR10-250 with 250 MB it seems not that long ago. 16 times the space for the same price works for me.


----------



## aaronwt

But the HR10-250 was six years ago. 250GB drives were still over $200.

I still have three of them sitting in a pile in my closet. Each with two 250GB drives in them. I really wish I would have sold them three years ago.


----------



## aaronwt

matguy said:


> So, let's put this together.
> 
> 2TB hard drive = about $150
> another 2TB hard drive = about $150
> WD MyDVR Expander 500GB = about $100 (yeah, throw away the drive)
> Tivo XL = $499
> 
> $999
> 
> Obviously it's quite possible they're not using the WD MyDVR Expander, and it's also quite possible they're getting bulk/whosale rates on the hardware, but for us to do the same thing, you're looking at about $1000, and that's ignoring labor, software, supporting hardware to do the drive image with (ya know, a PC with 2 open SATA ports.)
> 
> So, they're making probably about $200-300 on each unit to recoup their R&D costs. Well, plus they may make up some on the back end selling off the almost-new hard drives pulled out of the Tivo's.


Are they using the regular 2TB drives or the ones with specific algorithms for video recordings?


----------



## gweempose

aaronwt said:


> Are they using the regular 2TB drives or the ones with specific algorithms for video recordings?


If you contact them, I'm sure they would be happy to tell you exactly what drives they are using for the upgrades.


----------



## aaronwt

gweempose said:


> If you contact them, I'm sure they would be happy to tell you exactly what drives they are using for the upgrades.


I'm not going to get one I was just curious. Since the stock drive is one designed for video.

Although I never had any issues with the regular drives I installed in my older tiVos.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

aaronwt said:


> I'm not going to get one I was just curious. Since the stock drive is one designed for video.
> 
> Although I never had any issues with the regular drives I installed in my older tiVos.


I think it really just comes down to noise level. Since any translation to digital is already done it is just digital streams being sent to the drive just like any other application. The only difference is that it is a boatload of data on a constant stream.

Maybe they could tweak how the read write heads decide to move and how the next sector written is decided to account for that but most drives are already pretty tweaked out for performance now adays.

Noise and power consumption(which translates to internal heat) are the two big factors for me.


----------



## ShinySteelRobot

aaronwt said:


> Are they using the regular 2TB drives or the ones with specific algorithms for video recordings?


This page over at Weaknees indicates they are using a "Western Digital AV Line Hard Drive" in their upgrades. So I guess it's a special audio/video drive, not a typical desktop hard drive.


----------



## porch87

I just bought a tivo premiere. I want to buy a 2tb hard drive. Should I buy the one from weaknees for $300, or go with the $230 drive from ebay seller dvr dude? Does anyone have any experience with these 2 sellers?


----------



## jmpage2

porch87 said:


> I just bought a tivo premiere. I want to buy a 2tb hard drive. Should I buy the one from weaknees for $300, or go with the $230 drive from ebay seller dvr dude? Does anyone have any experience with these 2 sellers?


Weaknees has been around pretty much since the beginning of TiVo, has a perfect customer service track record, and is a forum sponsor.


----------



## porch87

jmpage2 said:


> Weaknees has been around pretty much since the beginning of TiVo, has a perfect customer service track record, and is a forum sponsor.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## lew

porch87 said:


> I just bought a tivo premiere. I want to buy a 2tb hard drive. Should I buy the one from weaknees for $300, or go with the $230 drive from ebay seller dvr dude? Does anyone have any experience with these 2 sellers?


DVR Dude has 100% favorable feedback. A few posters have had good luck with him.


----------



## jmill

Weakness uses WD Green AV drives, while dvr_dude uses cheaper 7200rpm drives. I think that's where the price difference comes from.


----------



## AbMagFab

Waiting patiently for the tools to make it into the mainsteam...

Perhaps this will coincide with the Tivo Premiere being viable for anything other than a backup Tivo for tertiary recordings...


----------



## aaronwt

AbMagFab said:


> Waiting patiently for the tools to make it into the mainsteam...
> 
> Perhaps this will coincide with the Tivo Premiere being viable for anything other than a backup Tivo for tertiary recordings...


All my Premieres are working fine as my primary TiVos. I've had no issues with any recordings. They have been just as reliable for recording as any TiVo I've owned these last nine years.

I have well over 150 recordings now between all my Premieres. Most from season passes. Everything has been recorded with no issues.


----------



## retired_guy

aaronwt said:


> All my Premieres are working fine as my primary TiVos. I've had no issues with any recordings. They have been just as reliable for recording as any TiVo I've owned these last nine years.
> 
> I have well over 150 recordings now between all my Premieres. Most from season passes. Everything has been recorded with no issues.


The delete file on my TPXL has 200+ entries. In addition, I've got another 100+ recordings available to watch and have had another 100+ already pushed out of the delete file. Never have had any problems with recording quality, missed recordings, or any lockups or reboots. I use the classic menus mostly for the time being which probably explains why I have not had problems. I know many have had serious problems but there are also a lot of us happy users who have found the box just as reliable as the older S3s and also a lot quicker. I've got it connected with ethernet cable to a eight way switch connected to a Linksys wireless bridge connected to my Linksys router using "n" at 5GHz. Pretty similar to what people would have using the new TiVo "n" adapter. MRV transfers are faster than real time for HD recordings; don't have hard transfer rate numbers but watching HD remotely or Netflix in HD is no longer an issue for me.


----------



## AbMagFab

aaronwt said:


> All my Premieres are working fine as my primary TiVos. I've had no issues with any recordings. They have been just as reliable for recording as any TiVo I've owned these last nine years.
> 
> I have well over 150 recordings now between all my Premieres. Most from season passes. Everything has been recorded with no issues.


It's more the god-awful slowness of the HD UI, and the half-hearted implementation across all of about 25% of the high-use screens. As it stands, the Premiere is an alpha unit with S3 software plus some extra completely unpolished stuff.

I'm sure they're reliable for recordings, but they are *completely unfinished*. There's no reason to buy anything other than a S3 right now. And absolutely zero reason to upgrade.


----------



## BlackBetty

jmill said:


> Weakness uses WD Green AV drives


could you link to the drive on amazon. I noticed amazon has 2 different WD 2tb drives for sale. I want to start watching prices so I'll be ready once the tools are made public.


----------



## ltxi

jmill said:


> Weakness uses WD Green AV drives, while dvr_dude uses cheaper 7200rpm drives. I think that's where the price difference comes from.


After ten years as a dedicated, frequent, and repeat Weaknees customer, I'm now officially not really happy with them at the moment. And if I've got this right, WD Green drives in the late HD and HDXL units have been the cause of a lot of problems; possibly software related. I've had two out of three go back within the last couple of months for infant mortality failures. dvr_dude is offering 2tb Hitachi drives as upgrades for the HDXL series and I'm thinking about buying one for the HDXL warranty replacement I have sitting in a box before I fire it up. Until the track record improves I'm avoiding WD Green drives like the plague.


----------



## weaknees

ltxi said:


> After ten years as a dedicated, frequent, and repeat Weaknees customer, I'm now officially not really happy with them at the moment. And if I've got this right, WD Green drives in the late HD and HDXL units have been the cause of a lot of problems; possibly software related. I've had two out of three go back within the last couple of months for infant mortality failures. dvr_dude is offering 2tb Hitachi drives as upgrades for the HDXL series and I'm thinking about buying one for the HDXL warranty replacement I have sitting in a box before I fire it up. Until the track record improves I'm avoiding WD Green drives like the plague.


Sorry to hear you aren't a happy customer - is it because we're currently using the WD AV Green Power drives? We do change some parameters on them to keep ours from having the problems that afflicted some HD XL users.

We have used Hitachi drives a few times in the past; we've always been pretty unhappy with them, frankly, and we doubt we'd use them again anytime soon. When we did use them, we used the CinemaStar line which is specifically built for DVR use.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

AbMagFab said:


> I'm sure they're reliable for recordings, but they are *completely unfinished*. There's no reason to buy anything other than a S3 right now. And absolutely zero reason to upgrade.


There's a very good reason to buy a Premiere. The S3 / TiVo HD has been discontinued, and so is difficult/impossible to find in places like Best Buy. Yes, maybe you can find one on FleaBay, but I prefer to avoid random semi-anonymous vendors.

I agree about the "zero reason to upgrade".


----------



## ltxi

weaknees said:


> Sorry to hear you aren't a happy customer - is it because we're currently using the WD AV Green Power drives? We do change some parameters on them to keep ours from having the problems that afflicted some HD XL users.
> 
> We have used Hitachi drives a few times in the past; we've always been pretty unhappy with them, frankly, and we doubt we'd use them again anytime soon. When we did use them, we used the CinemaStar line which is specifically built for DVR use.


Well, since you've asked/brought this up on an open forum, I'll answer you on an open forum.

With the preface that I had to eventually figure out the WD Green/Tivo software issues on my own.....

Two months ago you sold me a 1Tb upgraded HD S3 Tivo. It had issues from the start...grey screen tuner drop outs and reboot problems. One issue was your "bonus" HDMI cable....defective. Next issue was even after that was resolved (I figured it out) the unit kept going to grey screen on the tuners every day or so until a reboot. Had to be smart enough to check so that I'd not just record nothing. Eventually, no matter how many reboots, I'd soon get grey screen anytime I tried to do anything beyond the Tivo screen. I returned it and ate the return shipping and 15% restocking fee. At no time did you ever even hint that there was a problem with Tivo and WD Green drives. I had to figure all of this out for myself.

Due to time constraints, I just returned this unit to you....and bought an HDXL elsewhere as a replacement.

It had the same problems. Tivo guys acknowledged the issue and replaced it at no cost to me.

You were less than forthcoming, imho, especially considering your skill/knowledge set. Been dealing with you since the beginning and I expected better. Disappointed and no longer trust you.


----------



## weaknees

OK - our apologies.

If your unit came with a free HDMI cable, then it had a drive in it that we put in. So there shouldn't have been any problems with the drive - we change the settings on ALL of our drives. So I don't feel like we dropped the ball at all - there was nothing to disclose or hide, since our drives don't suffer from those issues.

I'm sorry you weren't happy, but we do stand behind our products. I think I remember this situation, and either way, I'm sure we were willing to get you a working unit at no further cost.


----------



## ltxi

weaknees said:


> OK - our apologies.
> 
> If your unit came with a free HDMI cable, then it had a drive in it that we put in. So there shouldn't have been any problems with the drive - we change the settings on ALL of our drives. So I don't feel like we dropped the ball at all - there was nothing to disclose or hide, since our drives don't suffer from those issues.
> 
> I'm sorry you weren't happy, but we do stand behind our products. I think I remember this situation, and either way, I'm sure we were willing to get you a working unit at no further cost.


You were, but not at no further cost....my time constraints coupled with both way shipping costs were prohibitive. It was one of your drives, which is why I was stuck dealing with you for warranty issues. Say what you wish, the failure issues exhibited were representative of all at the time and you could have at least acknowledged it. And given the situation and the condition it was returned in....pristine and with unopened accessories and manuals, the restocking fee was unwarranted imo.

I repeat, you've lost my faith and trust.


----------



## lew

AFAIK Tivo uses WD Green drives. I won't second guess a customer, or vendor, who decides to go with the same drive family used by tivo.

A small number of drives are defective, any mfg.


----------



## weaknees

ltxi said:


> You were, but not at no further cost....my time constraints coupled with both way shipping costs were prohibitive. It was one of your drives, which is why I was stuck dealing with you for warranty issues. Say what you wish, the failure issues exhibited were representative of all at the time and you could have at least acknowledged it. And given the situation and the condition it was returned in....pristine and with unopened accessories and manuals, the restocking fee was unwarranted imo.
> 
> I repeat, you've lost my faith and trust.


Our policy is, if it's a warranty issue within 30 days, we'll pay shipping back - i.e., no further cost.

If it's a return, we do not pay shipping back.


----------



## ltxi

Which is _not_ at all what you led me to understand. No matter at this point....water/money under the bridge.


----------



## jmill

Is this the right topic for this?

ltxi, weaknees... please discuss this in PM


----------



## innocentfreak

ltxi said:


> Two months ago you sold me a 1Tb upgraded HD S3 Tivo. It had issues from the start...grey screen tuner drop outs and reboot problems.


I thought gray screens were due the analog bug TiVo is currently trying to fix? I thought the whole issue with the WD drives were they wouldn't boot or got stuck on a soft reboot. Maybe I am wrong since I left my last HD stock after being one of the first to find the new WD drives no longer worked and just never kept up on it since I had two already finished that worked fine.


----------



## aaronwt

ltxi said:


> After ten years as a dedicated, frequent, and repeat Weaknees customer, I'm now officially not really happy with them at the moment. And if I've got this right, WD Green drives in the late HD and HDXL units have been the cause of a lot of problems; possibly software related. I've had two out of three go back within the last couple of months for infant mortality failures. dvr_dude is offering 2tb Hitachi drives as upgrades for the HDXL series and I'm thinking about buying one for the HDXL warranty replacement I have sitting in a box before I fire it up. Until the track record improves I'm avoiding WD Green drives like the plague.


I'm currently using over forty five WD green drives with no issues. I've used over eighty WD green drives over the last few years with no issues.


----------



## weaknees

innocentfreak said:


> I thought gray screens were due the analog bug TiVo is currently trying to fix? I thought the whole issue with the WD drives were they wouldn't boot or got stuck on a soft reboot. Maybe I am wrong since I left my last HD stock after being one of the first to find the new WD drives no longer worked and just never kept up on it since I had two already finished that worked fine.


That's what we know - the reboot issue is the Green Power issue, and we correct all of our drives for that before they ship.

The gray screen issue seems to be some bug that's totally unrelated to the drive.


----------



## orangeboy

weaknees said:


> innocentfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought gray screens were due the analog bug TiVo is currently trying to fix? I thought the whole issue with the WD drives were they wouldn't boot or got stuck on a soft reboot. Maybe I am wrong since I left my last HD stock after being one of the first to find the new WD drives no longer worked and just never kept up on it since I had two already finished that worked fine.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what we know - the reboot issue is the Green Power issue, and we correct all of our drives for that before they ship.
> 
> The gray screen issue seems to be some bug that's totally unrelated to the drive.
Click to expand...

As it appears to be evidenced by the user:



ltxi said:


> ...Due to time constraints, I just returned this unit to you....and bought an HDXL elsewhere as a replacement.
> 
> It had the same problems...


Different TiVo, different vendor, same problem? It seems to be a stretch to blame Weaknees for an apparent environmental problem.


----------



## paladin732

Is there any more info on the possibility of a DIY upgrade?

It looks like DVRupgrade has a 2TB also (which makes 3 sellers) but they are not offering instantcake for the premiere (yet). Anyone know if they are planning to? (instantcake can be used for expansion also, right?)

It seems like if these three sellers have done it (dvr_dude, weakness, and dvrupgrade) then a winmfs-style solution should be out soon.

Other option I can see is if someone with a weakness/dvrupgrade/dvr_dude drive wants to take a direct image of his/her new 2TB and upload it for us to expand to our own 2TB drives (I think... although this may violate TOS of the forum or of the respective sales company)


----------



## lessd

paladin732 said:


> Is there any more info on the possibility of a DIY upgrade?
> 
> It looks like DVRupgrade has a 2TB also (which makes 3 sellers) but they are not offering instantcake for the premiere (yet). Anyone know if they are planning to? (instantcake can be used for expansion also, right?)
> 
> It seems like if these three sellers have done it (dvr_dude, weakness, and dvrupgrade) then a winmfs-style solution should be out soon.
> 
> Other option I can see is if someone with a weakness/dvrupgrade/dvr_dude drive wants to take a direct image of his/her new 2TB and upload it for us to expand to our own 2TB drives (I think... although this may violate TOS of the forum or of the respective sales company)


The tools that we had for the Series 3, 2, and 1 were truncated copies of the working software that took up less than 400m on your hard drive, when expanded you could go bigger than the original TiVo software by adding space. A bit for bit copy of a 2Tb drive would work but be 2Tb in size, not easy to work with or download, Comcast only gives me 0.25Tb per month, but even a fast Internet connection of say 4MB/sec (32Mb/s) it would take over 5 and 1/2 full days to download a 2Tb file.


----------



## matguy

lessd said:


> The tools that we had for the Series 3, 2, and 1 were truncated copies of the working software that took up less than 400m on your hard drive, when expanded you could go bigger than the original TiVo software by adding space. A bit for bit copy of a 2Tb drive would work but be 2Tb in size, not easy to work with or download, Comcast only gives me 0.25Tb per month, but even a fast Internet connection of say 4MB/sec (32Mb/s) it would take over 5 and 1/2 full days to download a 2Tb file.


And then, of course, you gotta store that somewhere...


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

matguy said:


> And then, of course, you gotta store that somewhere...


If it's a mostly empty 2 TB drive, then the image will compress quite nicely, probably down to under 1 GB.

So that's an idea for the vendors. Fill all unused sectors with random data. Then the image won't compress and it will be harder for people to copy your drive.


----------



## lessd

Phantom Gremlin said:


> If it's a mostly empty 2 TB drive, then the image will compress quite nicely, probably down to under 1 GB.
> 
> So that's an idea for the vendors. Fill all unused sectors with random data. Then the image won't compress and it will be harder for people to copy your drive.


If you know how to compress you do not have a problem, you can't compress unless you know the data format, that why a program like Norton Ghost will not work on TiVo as Ghost is looking for a Windows operating system, to compress the software is not the big problem on the TP, it's how to add the extra space as the TP software expects any extra space to be on a drive 2 not the primary drive 1 so you can't just add partitions as was done with the Series 3.


----------



## paladin732

lessd said:


> If you know how to compress you do not have a problem, you can't compress unless you know the data format, that why a program like Norton Ghost will not work on TiVo as Ghost is looking for a Windows operating system, to compress the software is not the big problem on the TP, it's how to add the extra space as the TP software expects any extra space to be on a drive 2 not the primary drive 1 so you can't just add partitions as was done with the Series 3.


So can't a drive be taken from one of the vendors, then a compressed image be made and circulated?


----------



## aaronwt

paladin732 said:


> So can't a drive be taken from one of the vendors, then a compressed image be made and circulated?


Wouldn't that be illegal? if you need it that bad you should be paying for it or wait for Spike to update WinMFS to accomodate the Premiere.


----------



## lessd

paladin732 said:


> So can't a drive be taken from one of the vendors, then a compressed image be made and circulated?


That may work but only for the exact same size drive, must have the exact number of sectors (or more) as the original, I don't know if that would be in violation of anything.
Now that we know it can be done the tools may become available to the public, if the process is not to complicated.


----------



## paladin732

aaronwt said:


> Wouldn't that be illegal? if you need it that bad you should be paying for it or wait for Spike to update WinMFS to accomodate the Premiere.


didnt think of it that way... hmm, I guess I will just wait.


----------



## Keen

aaronwt said:


> Wouldn't that be illegal?


Not anymore illegal than them reverse-engineering Tivo's hard drive usage.


----------



## lessd

Keen said:


> Not anymore illegal than them reverse-engineering Tivo's hard drive usage.


I think there is a difference in having tools to copy your TiVo disk and sending out the TiVo software itself, how big a difference i don't know.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

lessd said:


> I think there is a difference in having tools to copy your TiVo disk and sending out the TiVo software itself, how big a difference i don't know.


instantcake is the TiVo image.


----------



## lessd

ZeoTiVo said:


> instantcake is the TiVo image.


I know that, but do you know if TiVo gave permission (or gets a royalty) on the sale of instancake, the price just went up to $39 so maybe now TiVo is getting something, I have no idea.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

lessd said:


> I know that, but do you know if TiVo gave permission (or gets a royalty) on the sale of instancake, the price just went up to $39 so maybe now TiVo is getting something, I have no idea.


I've wondered the same thing. And I was surprised by the price doubling. Hopefully TiVo gets "a piece of the action".


----------



## t1voproof

$39 is ridiculous. Maybe if it worked for Tivo Premiere I would consider purchasing it.


----------



## orangeboy

t1voproof said:


> $39 is ridiculous. Maybe if it worked for Tivo Premiere I would consider purchasing it.


I don't know - sounds reasonable to me considering the alternatives...


----------



## chrispitude

Does anyone know if spike is working on an mfslive support for the Premiere, or where we can send donations to encourage such a thing? I don't mind sending him a little something for allowing me to upgrade my S2 and S3 as well, quite frankly.


----------



## lessd

chrispitude said:


> Does anyone know if spike is working on an mfslive support for the Premiere, or where we can send donations to encourage such a thing? I don't mind sending him a little something for allowing me to upgrade my S2 and S3 as well, quite frankly.


Others have ask him to set up a donation link years ago, he has not done so, may be a legal issue under DRM, I don't know. (If you made software to say copy DVDs in the USA you would sure be hit with a DRM suit)


----------



## aaronwt

chrispitude said:


> Does anyone know if spike is working on an mfslive support for the Premiere, or where we can send donations to encourage such a thing? I don't mind sending him a little something for allowing me to upgrade my S2 and S3 as well, quite frankly.


Go to the MFSlive forums. He will post any info there under the Series 4 forums.


----------



## richklein

So what are people doing at this point? Buying a drive from ebay? 

Couldnt you use clonezilla or something else to just clone a XL drive or is there more to it because of the THX? 

I have two tivo premieres, could I just buy 1 ebay drive, clone it & then put it on the other premiere?


----------



## chrispitude

richklein said:


> So what are people doing at this point? Buying a drive from ebay?
> 
> Couldnt you use clonezilla or something else to just clone a XL drive or is there more to it because of the THX?
> 
> I have two tivo premieres, could I just buy 1 ebay drive, clone it & then put it on the other premiere?


I don't count as "people" but I am sitting tight until someone figures it out.  I am glad WK supports our community, but I'm only willing to pay a $50 premium over the bare drive price. Beyond that, I'm content to sit and wait.


----------



## matguy

chrispitude said:


> I don't count as "people" but I am sitting tight until someone figures it out.  I am glad WK supports our community, but I'm only willing to pay a $50 premium over the bare drive price. Beyond that, I'm content to sit and wait.


Yeah, what (s)he said.


----------



## KenVa

I really hope a solution get found soon that we all can use. I'm holding off moving my new Premiere to the main TV to replace my HD until I can copy the disk. Hopefully to a 2TB.


----------



## slowbiscuit

I wouldn't consider buying a Premiere until this is figured out and they fix the UI bugs. Not being able to upgrade/replace the HD is a showstopper for me.


----------



## cr33p

I bought one anyways, I have multiple units, just transfer off your less often watched season passes to the other box or just transfer shows.


----------



## cica

> I don't count as "people" but I am sitting tight until someone figures it out. I am glad WK supports our community, but I'm only willing to pay a $50 premium over the bare drive price. Beyond that, I'm content to sit and wait.


My feeling exactly.


----------



## lessd

slowbiscuit said:


> I wouldn't consider buying a Premiere until this is figured out and they fix the UI bugs. Not being able to upgrade/replace the HD is a showstopper for me.


On my Series 3 TiVos it is a comfort to know that 4 or 6 years later I can replace the drive myself if needed, I also don't want to give up that great advantage, hopefully someone will find a easy way to upgrade/backup the TP/TPXL drives. I don't also know if the upgrades that some people have now can survive the coming upgrades that TiVo has promised, like maybe a firmware upgrade and/or software upgrades to handle both cores and other problems.


----------



## comer

richklein said:


> Couldnt you use clonezilla or something else to just clone a XL drive or is there more to it because of the THX?
> 
> I have two tivo premieres, could I just buy 1 ebay drive, clone it & then put it on the other premiere?


As we know from previous series - drives are "married" to the box, so cloning won't work without "unmarying".
That being said, we can backup our own drives, for safety's sake. Then if the backup is restored the "marriage" won't break - it is still the same box.


----------



## puffdaddy

lessd said:


> hopefully someone will find a easy way to upgrade/backup the TP/TPXL drives. I don't also know if the upgrades that some people have now can survive the coming upgrades that TiVo has promised, like maybe a firmware upgrade and/or software upgrades to handle both cores and other problems.


Only minor changes are needed to mfstools to support Series4 drive layouts (and would guess the same for WinMFS, though that is closed source). And with those it's possible to successfully back up and restore such a drive. Though this might not qualify as "easy" for most, spike has said this would be easy to do (though he has not yet done so, for whatever reason)

Expansion is more difficult for the reasons stated on the boards, but there are existing methods to expand that have worked (though spike has questioned the long term stability of such methods--see the mfslive forums). Some folks suspect that DVR Dude and Weaknees employ these same methods to create their upgraded drives offerings (a quick inspection of one of those drives could confirm).



comer said:


> As we know from previous series - drives are "married" to the box, so cloning won't work without "unmarying".
> That being said, we can backup our own drives, for safety's sake. Then if the backup is restored the "marriage" won't break - it is still the same box.


You're correct that it's probably impossible to run a TPXL drive in a TP (presumably, they would experience the same guide data issues that plagued folks attempting to run a THD XL image on their THD). However, richklein's third question asked if one could buy an eBay drive (I assume he means a specially crafted DVR Dude drive), clone that, and then put the clone into a TP. This will work.

Note that tivo doesn't lock a given drive to a given unit (though they could, if they chose), rather, I *believe* (as I don't have first hand knowledge of the guide data issues experienced when attempting to run an XL version on a regular box) that the problem stems from the mismatch between the TSN and the software version model identifier.

For the THD, someone took the time to craft a THD-valid image atop a 1GB THD XL drive and then made a backup image of this "hybrid" drive. The "hybrid" image corrects the discrepancy between the unit's TSN and the "software's TSN", if you will. Now, a THD owner can restore (and expand) using this hybrid image and run without issue (thereby completely utilizing a 1-2TB internal drive). This same process could be repeated for the TP/XL (with perhaps the expansion being the only debatable point).


----------



## matguy

lessd said:


> On my Series 3 TiVos it is a comfort to know that 4 or 6 years later I can replace the drive myself if needed, I also don't want to give up that great advantage, hopefully someone will find a easy way to upgrade/backup the TP/TPXL drives. I don't also know if the upgrades that some people have now can survive the coming upgrades that TiVo has promised, like maybe a firmware upgrade and/or software upgrades to handle both cores and other problems.


You can easily duplicate a Series 4 TiVo drive to a new drive right now, that's not hard at all, it'll just be the same size as the original source drive is no matter how large the new drive is. You literally copy the whole original drive to a new drive of the same or larger size using either a hardware disk duplicator or copying applications that can deal with the TiVo partitions, which do exist. So, while there's no CD (Instant Cake) or other tool that can -make- one from scratch at this point, there's no reason to say there's no "easy way to upgrade/backup the TP/TPXL drives."


----------



## lessd

matguy said:


> You can easily duplicate a Series 4 TiVo drive to a new drive right now, that's not hard at all, it'll just be the same size as the original source drive is no matter how large the new drive is. You literally copy the whole original drive to a new drive of the same or larger size using either a hardware disk duplicator or copying applications that can deal with the TiVo partitions, which do exist. So, while there's no CD (Instant Cake) or other tool that can -make- one from scratch at this point, there's no reason to say there's no "easy way to upgrade/backup the TP/TPXL drives."


On the Series 3 and other TiVo models you can make a file about 400M for each image, on the Series 4 you need a full hard drive = or bigger for the file, that cost much more than just putting a 400m file on your existing computer, and you can't (at this time) upgrade, just copy. The process now is not as convenient as it is for the Series 3, I will wait as my Series 3(s) work great for me now, the new features will be in the future for me when i think the Series 4 does all the Series 3 stuff reliably and then some.


----------



## comer

matguy said:


> So, while there's no CD (Instant Cake) or other tool that can -make- one from scratch at this point, there's no reason to say there's no "easy way to upgrade/backup the TP/TPXL drives."


Upgrade - there's only one way so far - expensive; backup (1:1) - yes, easy


----------



## comer

puffdaddy said:


> However, richklein's third question asked if one could buy an eBay drive (I assume he means a specially crafted DVR Dude drive), clone that, and then put the clone into a TP. This will work.


Brilliant! How about the owners of TP chip in, buy a drive and ISO/clone it N-way?!


----------



## orangeboy

I'm still thinking it could be done using a low level MBR editor like MS's dskprobe.exe:

Copy the current HDD image to a larger HDD, 
Edit the MBR of the larger HDD to indicate a new partition length, and possibly new partition start addresses
Install larger HDD and cross fingers as you boot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record#MBRs_and_disk_partitioning


----------



## comer

orangeboy said:


> I'm still thinking it could be done using a low level MBR editor like MS's dskprobe.exe:
> 
> Copy the current HDD image to a larger HDD,
> Edit the MBR of the larger HDD to indicate a new partition length, and possibly new partition start addresses
> Install larger HDD and cross fingers as you boot


The issue is to make file system on that partition to become aware of it's new size. See "man resize2fs" for example, but we need something for Tivo FS. Hence the need for updated mfstools or WinMFS.


----------



## lessd

comer said:


> The issue is to make file system on that partition to become aware of it's new size. See "man resize2fs" for example, but we need something for Tivo FS. Hence the need for updated mfstools or WinMFS.


That been my point from my other posts on this thread, I want a tool as simple as WinMFS for the Series 4, we know that WeaKnees has done the job, and if their software does not survive the new software/firmware updates coming from TiVo soon, you have a good co. to go back to for a fix. I want (and may never get) WinMFS for the Series 4, not information as how it may or could be done, as I am not a programmer.


----------



## comer

On related subject - what's so special about "My DVR Expander"? Why is it the only one supported, anyone knows? What would happen if I just plug in a generic USB/ESATA drive - won't it be recognized, be flaky or what?


----------



## turbobozz

comer said:


> On related subject - what's so special about "My DVR Expander"? Why is it the only one supported, anyone knows? What would happen if I just plug in a generic USB/ESATA drive - won't it be recognized, be flaky or what?


S4 and TiVo HD will only allow the authorized esata drives to be used.

Probably mostly a support issue on TiVo's part... they only have to test the authorized drives if they only allow those to be used.


----------



## lessd

comer said:


> On related subject - what's so special about "My DVR Expander"? Why is it the only one supported, anyone knows? What would happen if I just plug in a generic USB/ESATA drive - won't it be recognized, be flaky or what?


Only the original unmodified Series 3 (TDC648250) can use any external Esata drive.


----------



## richklein

So has there been any progress made in terms of an instacake for the premiere?


----------



## jmill

richklein said:


> So has there been any progress made in terms of an instacake for the premiere?


Instantcake uses a regular drive image to do a restore. Only instead of typing it does it for you automatically. Obviously, WeaKness is not releasing that image to the public.


----------



## skipbittman

I've reviewed the Forum Rules and while I can't find anything disallowing this question, I'll apologize up front if this is out of bounds.

Has anyone bought a My DVR Expander, removed and cloned the disk, and got it to work with a generic (non-approved) eSata solution? Is there something on-chip in the My DVR Expander enclosure itself which prevents this far-too-simple, and possibly ignorant workaround?


----------



## jmill

skipbittman said:


> I've reviewed the Forum Rules and while I can't find anything disallowing this question, I'll apologize up front if this is out of bounds.
> 
> Has anyone bought a My DVR Expander, removed and cloned the disk, and got it to work with a generic (non-approved) eSata solution? Is there something on-chip in the My DVR Expander enclosure itself which prevents this far-too-simple, and possibly ignorant workaround?


This won't work. You need to have a very specific drive inside of My DVR Expander in order for TiVo to recognize it as external drive.


----------



## skipbittman

jmill said:


> This won't work. You need to have a very specific drive inside of My DVR Expander in order for TiVo to recognize it as external drive.


Thanks for the response.

One that is otherwise unavailable for purchase as a stand alone drive?


----------



## donnoh

I bought a DVR Dude 2TB drive off of ebay and it updated from 14.1 to 14.4 with no problems. So far it has worked ok not withstanding the Premiere's inherent problems.

I would recommend the drive to anyone looking to expand the storage of a Premiere.


----------



## reubanks

Is there any chance of getting this thread stickied? 

Thanks, Randy


----------



## rrr22777

When is the instantcake for PXL getting released? Part of the fun is doing some of this yourself.


----------



## aaronwt

donnoh said:


> I bought a DVR Dude 2TB drive off of ebay and it updated from 14.1 to 14.4 with no problems. So far it has worked ok not withstanding the Premiere's inherent problems.
> 
> I would recommend the drive to anyone looking to expand the storage of a Premiere.


I have a 2TB drive on the way from DVR Dude. Hopefully it will get here early next week.

I decided that I will just sell my XL box that is monthly once it ends in August. And plan on adding the 2TB to one of my Lifetime Premiere boxes.


----------



## aaronwt

I got my 2TB drive today from dvr_dude. It was packed extremely well and even had instructions inside(even though I didn't need them) IN five minutes I had already replaced the lid and was booting up the TiVo. After upgrading dozens of drives in my boxes over the last nine years, you get pretty quick at it.

The 2TB drive already had v14.4 software. I am very pleased with this purchase. I'll probably buy at least one(or possibly two) 1TB drives from dvr_dude for my other Premiere(s).


----------



## t1voproof

It looks like DVR Dude has the best prices compared to the alternatives.


----------



## richsadams

skipbittman said:


> One that is otherwise unavailable for purchase as a stand alone drive?


Yes. All TiVo's recognize the exact HDD model number used in WD's My DVR Expanders. The bare drives used in the Expanders not available to the public. FWIW the HDD can be removed from the Expander enclosure and placed in a different one (an Antec MX-1 for instance) and still work if the need arises. As mentioned only the original Series3 can utilize most (not all) "unauthorized" eSATA drives via plug and play. More here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160


----------



## comer

aaronwt said:


> I got my 2TB drive today from dvr_dude.


I wonder if you can run mfsinfo to see what's on it


----------



## aaronwt

comer said:


> I wonder if you can run mfsinfo to see what's on it


I installed my drive as soon as I got it. I won't be opening up that TiVo again.


----------



## richklein

I purchased a 2TB drive for my tivo. I have not installed it yet. I figure for the price & the possiblity that I wont have support in the future, I should make a backup of the new tivo drive. I did try clonezilla but it didnt seem to be able to see whatever is on the new drive. I am hesitant to put this new drive in until I have a backup. If my drive flakes out on me, its not like I have much recourse in getting support from the seller (as nice as he seems to be). I would much rather have my original drive as a backup. Maybe DD is an option?


----------



## aaronwt

richklein said:


> I purchased a 2TB drive for my tivo. I have not installed it yet. I figure for the price & the possiblity that I wont have support in the future, I should make a backup of the new tivo drive. I did try clonezilla but it didnt seem to be able to see whatever is on the new drive. I am hesitant to put this new drive in until I have a backup. If my drive flakes out on me, its not like I have much recourse in getting support from the seller (as nice as he seems to be). I would much rather have my original drive as a backup. Maybe DD is an option?


if the drive has problems it will be replaced by the manufacturer. OF course you won't have the TiVo content on it any more.

I see Weaknees warranties the drive for 6 months, but the cost is much, much higher.

Worst case you can just put the original drive back in if there are any issues.


----------



## richsadams

I know dd is supposed to make a bit-for-bit copy of a drive, but is there a way to prevent that? If I were DVR Dude (and I suspect he's lurking) or Weaknees I wouldn't want anyone to be able to make an exact duplicate as they could become instant competition. Just wondering if that's what richklein will run into if/when he tries to make a copy.


----------



## rocko

richklein said:


> I purchased a 2TB drive for my tivo. I have not installed it yet. I figure for the price & the possiblity that I wont have support in the future, I should make a backup of the new tivo drive. I did try clonezilla but it didnt seem to be able to see whatever is on the new drive. I am hesitant to put this new drive in until I have a backup. If my drive flakes out on me, its not like I have much recourse in getting support from the seller (as nice as he seems to be). I would much rather have my original drive as a backup. Maybe DD is an option?


Alledgedly, dd_rescue will work ...


----------



## richsadams

rocko said:


> Alledgedly, dd_rescue will work ...


Hmmm...wonder what the discount is for a small truck-load of 2TB drives?


----------



## jmill

rocko said:


> Alledgedly, dd_rescue will work ...


dd should work with virtually any drive out there since it is bit for bit copy. Although I'd imagine doing dd on 2TB will take a while. Maybe 2-3 days, depending on the speed of your PC?

Last time I had to dd copy on one of my 320GB Linux drives, it took almost a day.


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> I know dd is supposed to make a bit-for-bit copy of a drive, but is there a way to prevent that? If I were DVR Dude (and I suspect he's lurking) or Weaknees I wouldn't want anyone to be able to make an exact duplicate as they could become instant competition. Just wondering if that's what richklein will run into if/when he tries to make a copy.


A lot of time and the cost of another 2Tb drive


----------



## richsadams

jmill said:


> Maybe 2-3 days, depending on the speed of your PC?


Yikes!


----------



## matguy

I think only a portion of the deal with supplying the pre-made drives for people is the data, the other -big- part is support; if you don't have the background on the process to help people with potential problems you could be looking at either a money loosing venture or an Ebay account spoiling venture (via bad feedback.) Also, you're probably going to need to price-beat him, so if you're making, say, $20-30 a drive, you're probably going to have to sell a good 20 drives to break even, plus the time and supporting hardware it takes to duplicate the drives. (His process quite likely could be _much_ faster than a straight dd_rescue.)

Oh, and you are going to have a percentage of returns from either dead drives or people that can't get them to install/work right.

Not trying to talk you out of it, just looking at some reality.


----------



## richsadams

matguy said:


> I think only a portion of the deal with supplying the pre-made drives for people is the data, the other -big- part is support;


Ha! You wouldn't be DVR Dude in disguise would you?  All good points, but I (for one) have zero intention of going into the drive business...just speculating on the copying of drives to emulate what's being sold on line and such is all.


----------



## matguy

richsadams said:


> Ha! You wouldn't be DVR Dude in disguise would you?..


Heh, nope. I've just seen a lot of people jump in to selling stuff like this without realizing the ecconomics and customer service side involved.


----------



## aaronwt

dvr_dude also has a stand alone website that you can purchase the same drives without going through ebay.
I think it's called "mydvrstore".

edit: yes that is the name of the website.


----------



## Donni

Is it possible to install external esata hard drive after I install 2tb dvr_dude hard drive into my Tivo Premiere XL? If possible, what kind of external hard drive I can install, any external esata hard or just WD DVR expander?


----------



## josh.vince

I asked dvr_dude the same question, and here is his answer:

Dear jrvince,

Josh, yes you can add an eSATA drive after this 2TB drive but it has to be WD MY DVR Expander if done using Plug and Play method.
Otherwise, you will have to buy 4TB kit all together or send me the 2TB drive for me to add an esata drive at later time.

- dvr_dude



Donni said:


> Is it possible to install external esata hard drive after I install 2tb dvr_dude hard drive into my Tivo Premiere XL? If possible, what kind of external hard drive I can install, any external esata hard or just WD DVR expander?


----------



## richsadams

Donni said:


> Is it possible to install external esata hard drive after I install 2tb dvr_dude hard drive into my Tivo Premiere XL? If possible, what kind of external hard drive I can install, any external esata hard or just WD DVR expander?


Pretty ambitious storage! FWIW keep in mind that if the external drive fails _all_ of your recordings (since it was attached) will be lost. Just something to think about. Let us know how it goes if you do decide to add one. TIA!


----------



## Donni

josh.vince said:


> I asked dvr_dude the same question, and here is his answer:
> 
> Dear jrvince,
> 
> Josh, yes you can add an eSATA drive after this 2TB drive but it has to be WD MY DVR Expander if done using Plug and Play method.
> Otherwise, you will have to buy 4TB kit all together or send me the 2TB drive for me to add an esata drive at later time.
> 
> - dvr_dude


Thank you for quick reply.


----------



## Donni

richsadams said:


> Pretty ambitious storage! FWIW keep in mind that if the external drive fails _all_ of your recordings (since it was attached) will be lost. Just something to think about. Let us know how it goes if you do decide to add one. TIA!


I have TiVo S3 with 1tb internal + 1tb external hard drive for 2 years. And I'm still feel it's too small. That's why when I upgrade to TiVo Premiere, I want a bigger capacity hard drive.


----------



## richsadams

Donni said:


> I have TiVo S3 with 1tb internal + 1tb external hard drive for 2 years. And I'm still feel it's too small. That's why when I upgrade to TiVo Premiere, I want a bigger capacity hard drive.


Our TiVo's have 1TB drives and I still can't manage to get enough time to watch everything! But I get it, I do like having options! :up:


----------



## rogmatic

I got the Premiere and upgraded to a 2TB from DVR Dude and it is working great so far. I am thinking of upgrading my HD XL to 2TB as well, but I will wait for a while to take that plunge because I am not sure how to save my recordings.


----------



## donnoh

rogmatic said:


> I got the Premiere and upgraded to a 2TB from DVR Dude and it is working great so far. I am thinking of upgrading my HD XL to 2TB as well, but I will wait for a while to take that plunge because I am not sure how to save my recordings.


I also have the DVR Dude 2TB drive in my premiere plus the 2TB Mr Brovlofski image on my HD. Believe me 4TB of 4 tuner storage is more than most people can watch, especially me!


----------



## TexasGrillChef

donnoh said:


> I also have the DVR Dude 2TB drive in my premiere plus the 2TB Mr Brovlofski image on my HD. Believe me 4TB of 4 tuner storage is more than most people can watch, especially me!


Other than the cost of the Premier units.

What was the added cost?

Was it really worth it?

Why am I asking? Because I now have a Netgear Ultra 6 NAS running in RAID 5 mode with 2TB drives giving 10tb (9tb formated) of storage space.

The Netgear Ultra 6 NAS is recognized by the TiVo for transfers to & from the unit as well as from one of my Desktops that run TiVo Desktop Plus as well.

So is upgrading a Premier XL unit from 1tb really worth the effort if you have a 9TB NAS system?

TGC

P.S. Once the 3tb drives are released, the NAS will support those drives as well. So a quick simple upgrade from 10tb to 15tb will be alot easier I am sure than messing with a upgrading a TiVo unit's hard drive. 10tb gives about 9tb formated. I am sure 15tb will give about 13.5TB formated.


----------



## fdiggy

I'm with Rich. He is getting $229 for a 2TB. That is like $120 profit per drive sold.


----------



## lessd

fdiggy said:


> I'm with Rich. He is getting $229 for a 2TB. That is like $120 profit per drive sold.


Look at Windows 7 profit, if the cost of a boxed version is more than $3 to $4 I would be surprised, and one can pay over $200. We have no public way to image and expand any drive for the Premiere now, so he is making what he can now on doing that, good for him.


----------



## innocentfreak

TexasGrillChef said:


> So is upgrading a Premier XL unit from 1tb really worth the effort if you have a 9TB NAS system?


Yes if almost all of your recordings are flagged so that you can't transfer them to the NAS.


----------



## fdiggy

I just find it odd TiVo see a guy making good money off their product and allow it. Why not sell us a software upgrade tool themselves and slap this guy with a lawsuit. Let us buy our own drive of choice and have some fun.


----------



## fdiggy

I have a hard time with paying this dude double the cost of a drive for him to install a software i already paid for on it. Or for him to sell someone else's software on a drive to me. For the $120 savings i would let my PC run for 3 days to do the DD copy. I mean thats a nice night out at the nudie bar cash there.


----------



## caddyroger

fdiggy said:


> I have a hard time with paying this dude double the cost of a drive for him to install a software i already paid for on it. Or for him to sell someone else's software on a drive to me. For the $120 savings i would let my PC run for 3 days to do the DD copy. I mean thats a nice night out at the nudie bar cash there.


Looks like you are a bit jealous because he making money. 
You free to learn how it done and have 2tb drives work in the Tivo Premiere.
I have only one other thing to say ether pay dvr dude or do with out for now.


----------



## innocentfreak

fdiggy said:


> I just find it odd TiVo see a guy making good money off their product and allow it. Why not sell us a software upgrade tool themselves and slap this guy with a lawsuit. Let us buy our own drive of choice and have some fun.


They can't. The only way they could allow a user to install their own TiVo drive would be if they enclosed the power supply like on a PC. Since the PSU is exposed it would be a huge liability and maybe not even legal. They would also then have to deal with people possibly shorting out the TiVo that did it incorrectly which at least on the previous TiVos was possible if the front cable came loose.



fdiggy said:


> I have a hard time with paying this dude double the cost of a drive for him to install a software i already paid for on it. Or for him to sell someone else's software on a drive to me. For the $120 savings i would let my PC run for 3 days to do the DD copy. I mean thats a nice night out at the nudie bar cash there.


Except you can't on the Premiere unless something changed. The current tools don't work unless something changed last I checked. It is the same way he was able to do a 2TB drive for a TiVo HD but you couldn't do one using winmfs or mfslive due to the size limit on TiVo limiting you to under 1.5TB without the modification.


----------



## richsadams

fdiggy said:


> I'm with Rich. He is getting $229 for a 2TB. That is like $120 profit per drive sold.


Be careful who you take sides with around here.  As mentioned, I certainly don't begrudge anyone a profit or compensation for R&D (which for this project obviously took some time) as well as labor, acquisition costs, the basic cost of doing business, etc. I was just idly considering how much might be made if you had an original and cloned it for someone else. I have no interest in doing that nor do I think it would be very ethical...just wondering out loud is all.


----------



## fdiggy

Rich, you are almost a neighbor, i am in Gresham Or.


----------



## richsadams

fdiggy said:


> Rich, you are almost a neighbor, i am in Gresham Or.


You aren't a stalker are you?


----------



## aaronwt

fdiggy said:


> I have a hard time with paying this dude double the cost of a drive for him to install a software i already paid for on it. Or for him to sell someone else's software on a drive to me. For the $120 savings i would let my PC run for 3 days to do the DD copy. I mean thats a nice night out at the nudie bar cash there.


You can always go to the bigger companies and pay even more. He is offering a good price for the product when compared to what else is offered out there.
Their prices are around 30% more than what DVR_dude is charging.

Of course those larger companies have been around a long time so you can be reasonably sure they will be around for support, years down the road. Of course they also have more overhead too.


----------



## slowbiscuit

I think the 1TB upgrade price is reasonable, the 2TB not so much. But the bigger problem is that you'd have to do it on a new Premiere or transfer/watch all your recordings if you do it later, plus lose all your SPs. MUCH better and cheaper to do it yourself, and I'm wondering why mfslive hasn't been fixed to support the new layout by now.


----------



## lessd

slowbiscuit said:


> I think the 1TB upgrade price is reasonable, the 2TB not so much. But the bigger problem is that you'd have to do it on a new Premiere or transfer/watch all your recordings if you do it later, plus lose all your SPs. MUCH better and cheaper to do it yourself, and I'm wondering why mfslive hasn't been fixed to support the new layout by now.


It's not clear it can be done with the simple tools like we had before, I think the total hard drive is being modified for the say 2Tb TP image, then they use a drive duplicator to make up the drives they sell.


----------



## richsadams

slowbiscuit said:


> I think the 1TB upgrade price is reasonable, the 2TB not so much. But the bigger problem is that you'd have to do it on a new Premiere or transfer/watch all your recordings if you do it later, plus lose all your SPs. MUCH better and cheaper to do it yourself, and I'm wondering why mfslive hasn't been fixed to support the new layout by now.


If you sign up for TiVo's Guru Guides or KidZone your SP's will be repopulated after upgrading your hard drive.

FWIW Spike, the author of MFSTools, winMFS, etc., has never asked for one penny for all of his hard work creating and maintaining those programs. He's even turned down the idea of adding a PayPal link for donations. I'd also like to see updates for the Premiere, but I tend not to look a gift horse in the mouth. If or when he finds the time to update things we'll all be very appreciative I am sure.


----------



## fdiggy

Its also interesting no instant cake for Premieres but does sell the drive all setup for $299. Nobody out there running Linux? Connect a drive look at the partitions. Lets figure it out.


----------



## fdiggy

Someone who has purchased an upgraded drive, what state is it in when 1st booted? Does it have any info from a different unit like zip code, or does it boot up as a new unit would.


----------



## richsadams

fdiggy said:


> Someone who has purchased an upgraded drive, what state is it in when 1st booted? Does it have any info from a different unit like zip code, or does it boot up as a new unit would.


Just like a brand new TiVo.


----------



## innocentfreak

fdiggy said:


> Its also interesting no instant cake for Premieres but does sell the drive all setup for $299. Nobody out there running Linux? Connect a drive look at the partitions. Lets figure it out.


Have at it...MFSLive forums


----------



## orangeboy

innocentfreak said:


> Have at it...MFSLive forums


Wait - did you see this?
http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic...6f95dd28f5fd008d2bf0c007e687f5&start=15#p7017


----------



## innocentfreak

Yeah I saw it, but my knowledge of Linux is nothing so not sure what most of the discussion is talking about. 

I would imagine it is similar to how the companies and people selling upgrades are already doing it. Until it is automated it isn't something I will be looking to tackle for a while.


----------



## fdiggy

Looks to be quite close already, sounds like Premiere upgrade drives are about to take a drastic drop in price.


----------



## aaronwt

fdiggy said:


> Looks to be quite close already, sounds like Premiere upgrade drives are about to take a drastic drop in price.


Sounds great if they are. I will upgrade my other 320GB Premiere units to 1.5TB drives. Although I guess I'll need to wait a few months to upgrade them anyway.. So by then the tools should hopefully be ready.


----------



## lessd

aaronwt said:


> Sounds great if they are. I will upgrade my other 320GB Premiere units to 1.5TB drives. Although I guess I'll need to wait a few months to upgrade them anyway.. So by then the tools should hopefully be ready.


*I hope I am wrong *but you all are assuming that the simple tools we had for past TiVo models will become available for this model, I not so sure as there are some tricks in the Series 4 like only seeing expanded space in a drive B assuming the main drive is Drive A. The people who have been successful may have just expanded the original media partition on Drive A, a very tricky thing to do. This is how TiVo goes from the TP to the TPXL, as opposed to what we do now (current tools) of just adding extra media space to the unused part of a bigger drive, as TiVo main software (not Series 4) never cared about what drive the extra space was on.


----------



## comer

lessd said:


> *I hope I am wrong *but you all are assuming that the simple tools we had for past TiVo models will become available for this model, I not so sure as there are some tricks in the Series 4 like only seeing expanded space in a drive B assuming the main drive is Drive A. The people who have been successful may have just expanded the original media partition on Drive A, a very tricky thing to do. This is how TiVo goes from the TP to the TPXL, as opposed to what we do now (current tools) of just adding extra media space to the unused part of a bigger drive, as TiVo main software (not Series 4) never cared about what drive the extra space was on.


I am not sure I understand what you are talking about  But what I am trying to do over at MFSLive forums *is* a simple tool like we had for other Tivos, ideally integrated with MFSTools CD. Though for some strange reason I have not had a single Spike's reply. May be he moved on to better things, may be he is DVR_Dude... Anyway, what I did - is expand a single standard 320G drive onto a bigger one. I happened to have 1.5T drive around, but procedure is not dependent on that. Add partitions, reboot, hear Tivo complain, reboot - here you go. By the way, after I expanded the drive, I got 14.5 OS upgrade. Some suspected that anything done not up to Tivo liking would be erased during OS upgrade. It wasn't, so expansion seems quite stable.

EDIT: Actually, I think I will update my tool to add only one partition instead of two as it has always been - that's what Tivo seems to be correcting. I am very optimistic, that expansion will work without complaints and double reboots then.
Right now the tool is in Java. Who wants to try - you are welcome to take it with all disclaimers and caveats you can imagine


----------



## orangeboy

comer said:


> ...Right now the tool is in Java. Who wants to try - you are welcome to take it with all disclaimers and caveats you can imagine


Any platform specific requirements for the Java application? As in, it CANNOT run on a Windows OS?


----------



## NYHeel

comer said:


> I am not sure I understand what you are talking about  But what I am trying to do over at MFSLive forums *is* a simple tool like we had for other Tivos, ideally integrated with MFSTools CD. Though for some strange reason I have not had a single Spike's reply. May be he moved on to better things, may be he is DVR_Dude... Anyway, what I did - is expand a single standard 320G drive onto a bigger one. I happened to have 1.5T drive around, but procedure is not dependent on that. Add partitions, reboot, hear Tivo complain, reboot - here you go. By the way, after I expanded the drive, I got 14.5 OS upgrade. Some suspected that anything done not up to Tivo liking would be erased during OS upgrade. It wasn't, so expansion seems quite stable.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, I think I will update my tool to add only one partition instead of two as it has always been - that's what Tivo seems to be correcting. I am very optimistic, that expansion will work without complaints and double reboots then.
> Right now the tool is in Java. Who wants to try - you are welcome to take it with all disclaimers and caveats you can imagine


Sounds great! I'd test it but I don't have a premiere. Quick question, is there a drive size limit to your tool like there was with the tool for the series 3s? Also, is it feasible to copy recordings from a previous drive? Thanks for all the hard work.


----------



## comer

orangeboy said:


> Any platform specific requirements for the Java application? As in, it CANNOT run on a Windows OS?


It can run alright, unfortunately can not address a whole disk as a file even using weird windows device names like "\\?\Volume...".
So the only possibility for windows is to work with a disk image file. It is cumbersome because one would need a lot of space and copy the whole disk back and forth:
1. Make an uncompressed image of the original disk.
2. Increase the size of the image to match the target big disk size.
3. Run the tool for the image
4. Copy image on the new disk.
For #2 above one could copy the original disk onto target big one, then make an image of that big drive.

For Linux it is quite simpler:
1. Copy original onto new
2. Run the tool for target drive (for ex. /dev/sdd )


----------



## comer

Q


NYHeel said:


> Sounds great! I'd test it but I don't have a premiere. Quick question, is there a drive size limit to your tool like there was with the tool for the series 3s? Also, is it feasible to copy recordings from a previous drive? Thanks for all the hard work.


Size limit is unsigned int of 512 byte blocks. So if I calculate correctly it is 2T per disk.
As far as I can tell the recordings are preserved during upgrade. The old partitions are not touched just new ones added.


----------



## lessd

comer said:


> It can run alright, unfortunately can not address a whole disk as a file even using weird windows device names like "\\?\Volume...".
> So the only possibility for windows is to work with a disk image file. It is cumbersome because one would need a lot of space and copy the whole disk back and forth:
> 1. Make an uncompressed image of the original disk.
> 2. Increase the size of the image to match the target big disk size.
> 3. Run the tool for the image
> 4. Copy image on the new disk.
> For #2 above one could copy the original disk onto target big one, then make an image of that big drive.
> 
> For Linux it is quite simpler:
> 1. Copy original onto new
> 2. Run the tool for target drive (for ex. /dev/sdd )


I know that somebody done the job of drive expansion for the TP and TPXL, my question will be if that can be ever done with the simple tools we now can use for the Series 3,2,1. One can purchase one expanded drive from E-Bay and make your own copies of that whole drive, that a pain, and as i said I hope I am wrong and simple tools* can *be made by the programmers on this form.


----------



## comer

lessd said:


> I know that somebody done the job of drive expansion for the TP and TPXL, my question will be if that can be ever done with the simple tools we now can use for the Series 3,2,1. One can purchase one expanded drive from E-Bay and make your own copies of that whole drive, that a pain, and as i said I hope I am wrong and simple tools* can *be made by the programmers on this form.


I wonder what's your criteria for simple tool? To upgrade the drive you need two drives - original small and new big, right? You would need to copy your information from old to new, right?


----------



## socrplyr

comer said:


> The old partitions are not touched just new ones added.


Do you know if that means you can't add an external drive as well?


----------



## lessd

comer said:


> I wonder what's your criteria for simple tool? To upgrade the drive you need two drives - original small and new big, right? You would need to copy your information from old to new, right?


The tools we now have (not for the Series 4) let you make a truncated copy of your TiVo software that takes up less than 0.5Gb. From that copy you can image a new drive, of the same size or bigger (some limitation on how much bigger). So for each image your only tying up 0.5Gb per image. (one DVD could hold 9 images) If you want to save your TiVo programs than you have stated things correctly copy one drive to another drive. After making the 0.5Gb image for your TiVo if your drive goes bad you would just have to purchase another drive and put the image on it, you will not have your programs but you would not have them after your drive went bad anyways.


----------



## comer

lessd said:


> The tools we now have (not for the Series 4) let you make a truncated copy of your TiVo software that takes up less than 0.5Gb. From that copy you can image a new drive, of the same size or bigger (some limitation on how much bigger). So for each image your only tying up 0.5Gb per image. (one DVD could hold 9 images) If you want to save your TiVo programs than you have stated things correctly copy one drive to another drive. After making the 0.5Gb image for your TiVo if your drive goes bad you would just have to purchase another drive and put the image on it, you will not have your programs but you would not have them after your drive went bad anyways.


I understand. However, zipped (ala "dd | gzip") image of the virgin 320G tivo drive takes about 4.5G. And you are not dependent of any tool to restore it if need be.


----------



## comer

socrplyr said:


> Do you know if that means you can't add an external drive as well?


I can't be positive, because I have not tried. However, the fact that after the upgrade Tivo complained about "external storage missing", offered to remove it, did the supposed "removal" after which I was left with working 1.5T drive, gives me hope that it would be able to add the external storage back.

Technically speaking: I think for all extra partitions after factory ones Tivo adds only one per pair into the "superheader", so there's plenty of room left to add more - 128 bytes max, 11 bytes per entry "/dev/sdXNN ", so 11 theoretycally, minus 5 already there, so 6 more. Now, there may be a limit (artificial) in Tivo software on how many it would accept - I can't tell without trying.


----------



## MikeAndrews

comer said:


> I am not sure I understand what you are talking about  But what I am trying to do over at MFSLive forums *is* a simple tool like we had for other Tivos, ideally integrated with MFSTools CD. Though for some strange reason I have not had a single Spike's reply. May be he moved on to better things, may be he is DVR_Dude... Anyway, what I did - is expand a single standard 320G drive onto a bigger one. I happened to have 1.5T drive around, but procedure is not dependent on that. Add partitions, reboot, hear Tivo complain, reboot - here you go. By the way, after I expanded the drive, I got 14.5 OS upgrade. Some suspected that anything done not up to Tivo liking would be erased during OS upgrade. It wasn't, so expansion seems quite stable.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, I think I will update my tool to add only one partition instead of two as it has always been - that's what Tivo seems to be correcting. I am very optimistic, that expansion will work without complaints and double reboots then.
> Right now the tool is in Java. Who wants to try - you are welcome to take it with all disclaimers and caveats you can imagine


Thanks, Comer!

I've been wondering why there hasn't been any mention of 2TB drives on the d d or elsewhere.

I think you nailed it. The commercial outfits and otherwise have hired those guys and/or are keeping the info to themselves while they can bring in some bucks. 

I've decided to try expanding my OEM drive on the S3 I did a Plug-in-play external add on. I just don't have any need to do it soon. What I'm doing in the meantime is trying to minimize the copy-locked stuff I might lose.


----------



## comer

netringer said:


> Thanks, Comer!


No problem  I am a Premiere owner myself and fully understand how eager many may be to expand its puny capacity 

Anyway, I found that recordings don't go beyond original capacity. Most likely because the data partition is not in superheader after all and thus not "seen" by Tivo. Fix is simple - a modified version of what other guys (see MFSLive forums) called "coalescing" - basically creating one partition with combined size. I already fixed the tool, but wanted to make sure it works now - so will do test today, add some recrdings and by the end of tomorrow (if everything goes as planned) will know for sure.


----------



## orangeboy

comer said:


> No problem  I am a Premiere owner myself and fully understand how eager many may be to expand its puny capacity
> 
> Anyway, I found that recordings don't go beyond original capacity. Most likely because the data partition is not in superheader after all and thus not "seen" by Tivo. Fix is simple - a modified version of what other guys (see MFSLive forums) called "coalescing" - basically creating one partition with combined size. I already fixed the tool, but wanted to make sure it works now - so will do test today, add some recrdings and by the end of tomorrow (if everything goes as planned) will know for sure.


I'd like to add my thanks for your efforts! :up:


----------



## KenVa

orangeboy said:


> I'd like to add my thanks for your efforts! :up:


+1
This would be awesome!


----------



## chewy2314

KenVa said:


> +1
> This would be awesome!


+1 :up:
for me too! Thanks Comer!


----------



## comer

*This guide is obsolete although holds some value for advanced users who want to tinker with the command line. The new Live CD and guide here*


So, I used the modified tool, added a bunch of recordings and now used space is up to 30%. Even by conservative estimates (1.2T) it is beyond original capacity. Latest recordings play quite fine 
So here, I put the tool for your testing/using pleasure 
--------------------

Download links are at the end

**WARNING**

 Please read the GPL v3 licence terms (included with the tool).
 Opening your Tivo cover will void manufacturers warranty.
 Although program is not designed to do (and actually attempts to prevent) data
loss and distruction, it certainly has a potential to do so.
It is ultimately YOUR responsibility to backup, stow away and otherwise protect
your data.

*OVERVIEW*
The tool allows for various examinations and modifications of the Tivo Premiere harddrive.
It may work on other Tivo models, but it was ONLY TESTED ON PREMIERE DISK.
Also, it was not tested and probably will not work on multi-disk configurations.

The only currently implemented modification is extension of the Tivo recording space by making an additional unused space on the harddrive to be available for Tivo.

If you decide to use this tool, you will be doing the following:

 Taking Tivo harddrive out of the Tivo
 Copying your old drive onto new larger one
 Running the tool
 Installing the new harddrive back in the Tivo
 If you can not or don't want to do anything of the above, DO NOT PROCEED

*REQUIREMENTS*
_To run:_

 Java Runtime (JRE) 1.5 and up (http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/index.html).
You can check if you have it in your system by running "java -version" command. 
 Tivo Premiere harddrive or uncompressed image of it.
 [optional, if you want to extend recording space] A larger SATA harddrive.
 [under Linux] root access (you won't need to be root, but must be able to run some commands with root pivileges, ala "sudo")
 [under Windows, if you want to extend recording space] Windows-accessible free disk space at least the size of your new drive.
 _To build:_

 Java Development Kit (JDK) 1.5 and up (see URL above).
 [optional] Apache ANT 1.7.1 and above (http://ant.apache.org/)

*USAGE*
It is recommended to use the tool under Linux. It will save you a lot of disk space and time. If you do not have Linux, you don't have to install it - use Live CD. Just make sure it includes Java, although it is possible to install it later.

_Under Linux:_

 If going directly from disk:
 If going directly from disk, connect harddrive to your Linux system.
It does not matter if you connect directly to SATA interface or using USB.
 Verify the harddrive names in the system: run as root "fdisk -l" and make note of the device names and capacities (for ex. "Disk /dev/sda: 2000.3 GB").
 If still unsure, run as root "hdparm -i <device>" (for ex. "hdparm -i /dev/sda") which will output the disk model (e.g. "/dev/sda: Model=WDC WD20EVDS-63T3B0")

 If planning to extend space - connect the new drive and check the steps 1.2 and 1.3 above.
 Make sure your old drive is readable and new drive is read-writable (usually disks are not to anyone but root). So either run the next steps as root or "sudo" or execute as root:
"chmod o+r <old drive>" and "chmod o+rw <new drive>"
 Unpack the tool in convenient location and make it the current directory ("cd" there).
 [optional, but very advisable] run "./testLayout.sh <old tivo drive or image file name>".
Make sure it runs without error. If it does - do not proceed.
It will output the current Tivo disk structure. Make note of the last few lines.
for example:


Code:


			Used:   7709608 (3.68G)
			Free:   608736680 (290.27G)
			Total:  616446288 (293.94G)

 This is your current disk capacity.
 Copy old tivo disk or image file onto new one using *either*:
 "ddrescue -r 3 <old tivo drive or image file name> <new drive>"
I recommend this tool if available in your system, because it gives nice progress output, so you can be sure it didn't hang and how long to wait.
 "dd if=<old tivo drive or image file name> of=<new drive>"
It is possible to see progress of this tool as well, but not interactively. For more info see "man dd" or look it up on internet.
Wait for 2-3 hours until complete. Make sure it completes without errors.

 Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>"
 [optional, but very advisable] run "./testLayout.sh <new drive>".
Make note of the last few lines and verify that capacity increased.

_Under Windows:_

 Get Windows version of "dd" or "ddrescue"
 Create an image of your old Tivo drive: copy disk using the tools above into a file <new image>
 Increase the file size to match the size of your new disk. Important! It must not be bigger! It can be smaller, but you will likely underuse your new drive then. To increase the file size you can use included "extendFile" utility:
extendFile.bat +<extent size>
(! plus sign before the number is important !) where "extent size" is the number of bytes to add to the file size.
Most likely you won't be able to extend the file upto the whole new disk in one run. If you get "Isufficient system resources for operation" error or something similar, just run multiple times with smaller numbers.
 Same as #5 above ("testLayout.bat <new image>") - should see old numbers
 Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>" 
 Same as #8 above ("testLayout.bat <new image>") - should see new numbers
 Copy the updated <new image> on the new drive using tools from step #1.

*BUILDING*
Use ANT script provided.

 ant clean
 ant
 ant package

You can use Java Compiler without ANT to directly compile the classes. Refer to "javac" docs.

Download:
<obsolete>
<obsolete>
EDIT: Let's try MediaFire. If anyone knows a better provider - please let me know 
-----------
 If you like my work, buy me a beer... or milk... or a harddrive


----------



## orangeboy

Out-<expletive deleted>-standing.

Edit: does the file hosting website *really* need my email address before I can download?! Looks like an invitation for more spam


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> So, I used the modified tool, added a bunch of recordings and now used space is up to 30%. Even by conservative estimates (1.2T) it is beyond original capacity. Latest recordings play quite fine
> So here, I put the tool for your testing/using pleasure


Well crap.  I was kind of hoping it wouldn't work. Now I'm probably going to have to try it. Dang.  

Cheers for the hard work. Now who's going to be the first to be second? Volunteers anyone?


----------



## fdiggy

I will try it out when my Premier gets here if at all, It left Cali to Oregon Saturday still not here though. 4 days 1 state.

Alright now lets take bets how long before this setup comer put together ends up on a disk on Ebay for sale by some dirtbag. 

I have no more than 3 days from now.

Would it be helpful to host a virgin image for others to use, i could do that. Well if my Premier gets here.


----------



## comer

orangeboy said:


> Out-<expletive deleted>-standing.
> 
> Edit: does the file hosting website *really* need my email address before I can download?! Looks like an invitation for more spam


It shouldn't  I'll try another hosting service.


----------



## mellenfan

I got this far and got the following when running the testlayout.sh prior to ddrescue:

[email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb/image
Any and all parts of this software are protected by GPL v3 and Copyright 2010 Artem Erchov ([email protected])

(No such file or directory)n: /dev/sdb/image
at java.io.RandomAccessFile.open(Native Method)
at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:233)
at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:118)
at tivo.disk.Storage.<init>(Storage.java:32)
at tivo.disk.AppleDisk.<init>(AppleDisk.java:45)
at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.<init>(TivoDisk.java:41)
at tivo.Mfs.addDisks(Mfs.java:185)
at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:57)
at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:51)
at TestLayout.main(TestLayout.java:253)

TestLayout: done


----------



## comer

mellenfan said:


> I got this far and got the following when running the testlayout.sh prior to ddrescue:
> 
> [email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb/image
> Any and all parts of this software are protected by GPL v3 and Copyright 2010 Artem Erchov ([email protected])
> 
> (No such file or directory)n: /dev/sdb/image
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.open(Native Method)
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:233)
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:118)
> at tivo.disk.Storage.<init>(Storage.java:32)
> at tivo.disk.AppleDisk.<init>(AppleDisk.java:45)
> at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.<init>(TivoDisk.java:41)
> at tivo.Mfs.addDisks(Mfs.java:185)
> at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:57)
> at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:51)
> at TestLayout.main(TestLayout.java:253)
> 
> TestLayout: done


1. dos2unix *.sh (should need but just in case)
2. Add parameters to java into test.sh: "-client -d32" (if 32-bit system, or -d64 if 64-bit) and try again, please


----------



## comer

mellenfan said:


> I got this far and got the following when running the testlayout.sh prior to ddrescue:
> 
> [email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb/image
> Any and all parts of this software are protected by GPL v3 and Copyright 2010 Artem Erchov ([email protected])
> 
> (No such file or directory)n: /dev/sdb/image
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.open(Native Method)
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:233)
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:118)
> at tivo.disk.Storage.<init>(Storage.java:32)
> at tivo.disk.AppleDisk.<init>(AppleDisk.java:45)
> at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.<init>(TivoDisk.java:41)
> at tivo.Mfs.addDisks(Mfs.java:185)
> at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:57)
> at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:51)
> at TestLayout.main(TestLayout.java:253)
> 
> TestLayout: done


Actually, I looked closely at the exception - what is /dev/sdb/image? It doesn't seem to be a valid name. Then the exception is correct. Are you going directly from Tivo disk? Is it /dev/sdb? Then use "./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb"


----------



## mellenfan

I am running Linux via cd. The way I get to the Tivo drive is /dev/sdb. Your directions under Linux #5 indicated to run "./testLayout.sh <old tivo drive/image>" so...old tivo drive is /dev/sdb and then I added /image.

I also tried your suggestion of dropping the /image....same result.

[email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb
Any and all parts of this software are protected by GPL v3 and Copyright 2010 Artem Erchov ([email protected])

(No such file or directory)n: /dev/sdb
at java.io.RandomAccessFile.open(Native Method)
at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:233)
at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:118)
at tivo.disk.Storage.<init>(Storage.java:32)
at tivo.disk.AppleDisk.<init>(AppleDisk.java:45)
at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.<init>(TivoDisk.java:41)
at tivo.Mfs.addDisks(Mfs.java:185)
at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:57)
at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:51)
at TestLayout.main(TestLayout.java:253)

TestLayout: done


----------



## comer

mellenfan said:


> I am running Linux via cd. The way I get to the Tivo drive is /dev/sdb. Your directions under Linux #5 indicated to run "./testLayout.sh <old tivo drive/image>" so...old tivo drive is /dev/sdb and then I added /image.
> 
> I also tried your suggestion of dropping the /image....same result.
> 
> [email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb
> Any and all parts of this software are protected by GPL v3 and Copyright 2010 Artem Erchov ([email protected])
> 
> (No such file or directory)n: /dev/sdb
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.open(Native Method)
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:233)
> at java.io.RandomAccessFile.<init>(RandomAccessFile.java:118)
> at tivo.disk.Storage.<init>(Storage.java:32)
> at tivo.disk.AppleDisk.<init>(AppleDisk.java:45)
> at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.<init>(TivoDisk.java:41)
> at tivo.Mfs.addDisks(Mfs.java:185)
> at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:57)
> at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:51)
> at TestLayout.main(TestLayout.java:253)
> 
> TestLayout: done


By <drive/image> I ment "either drive name or image file name", sorry for confusion 
Please do "dos2unix *.sh" and run "./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb" it will fix the problem  
Meanwhile I replaced the files in downloadable zip with the ones with correct unix line-ends


----------



## mellenfan

Got by that error....thanks! However - I get the following error:

[email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb
Any and all parts of this software are protected by GPL v3 and Copyright 2010 Artem Erchov ([email protected])
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: Can't load library: /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/lib/i386/xawt/libmawt.so
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:1649)
at java.lang.Runtime.load0(Runtime.java:787)
at java.lang.System.load(System.java:1022)
at java.lang.ClassLoader$NativeLibrary.load(Native Method)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary0(ClassLoader.java:1750)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:1667)
at java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary0(Runtime.java:840)
at java.lang.System.loadLibrary(System.java:1047)
at sun.security.action.LoadLibraryAction.run(LoadLibraryAction.java:67)
at sun.security.action.LoadLibraryAction.run(LoadLibraryAction.java:47)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at sun.java2d.Disposer.<clinit>(Disposer.java:58)
at javax.imageio.stream.MemoryCacheImageInputStream.<init>(MemoryCacheImageInputStream.java:76)
at tivo.io.Utils.read(Utils.java:160)
at tivo.io.Utils.read(Utils.java:175)
at tivo.io.Utils.read(Utils.java:202)
at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.loadHeader(TivoDisk.java:124)
at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.<init>(TivoDisk.java:42)
at tivo.Mfs.addDisks(Mfs.java:185)
at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:57)
at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:51)
at TestLayout.main(TestLayout.java:253)

I am running:

[email protected]:~/Downloads$ java -version
java version "1.6.0_18"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8) (6b18-1.8-0ubuntu1)
OpenJDK Client VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode, sharing)


----------



## orangeboy

comer said:


> It shouldn't  I'll try another hosting service.


Thank you! Got it now. It's going to have to sit for a bit though. Time and circumstances don't permit me to try it out, but it's nice to have it regardless!


----------



## comer

mellenfan said:


> Got by that error....thanks! However - I get the following error:
> 
> [email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb
> Any and all parts of this software are protected by GPL v3 and Copyright 2010 Artem Erchov ([email protected])
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: Can't load library: /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/lib/i386/xawt/libmawt.so
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:1649)
> at java.lang.Runtime.load0(Runtime.java:787)
> at java.lang.System.load(System.java:1022)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader$NativeLibrary.load(Native Method)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary0(ClassLoader.java:1750)
> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:1667)
> at java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary0(Runtime.java:840)
> at java.lang.System.loadLibrary(System.java:1047)
> at sun.security.action.LoadLibraryAction.run(LoadLibraryAction.java:67)
> at sun.security.action.LoadLibraryAction.run(LoadLibraryAction.java:47)
> at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
> at sun.java2d.Disposer.<clinit>(Disposer.java:58)
> at javax.imageio.stream.MemoryCacheImageInputStream.<init>(MemoryCacheImageInputStream.java:76)
> at tivo.io.Utils.read(Utils.java:160)
> at tivo.io.Utils.read(Utils.java:175)
> at tivo.io.Utils.read(Utils.java:202)
> at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.loadHeader(TivoDisk.java:124)
> at tivo.disk.TivoDisk.<init>(TivoDisk.java:42)
> at tivo.Mfs.addDisks(Mfs.java:185)
> at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:57)
> at tivo.Mfs.<init>(Mfs.java:51)
> at TestLayout.main(TestLayout.java:253)
> 
> I am running:
> 
> [email protected]:~/Downloads$ java -version
> java version "1.6.0_18"
> OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8) (6b18-1.8-0ubuntu1)
> OpenJDK Client VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode, sharing)


Oh, that's definitely something wrong with JRE install.  Looks like it wasn't complete. Can you redo it? 
For the sake of experiment I have just booted into fresh Parted Magic, downloaeded JRE, set the PATH to jre/bin and jre/lib and everything worked on the first try. I also downloaded zip right from the link in this forum. Are you using 64 or 32 bit CD? Try setting -d64 or -d32 for java respectively.


----------



## mellenfan

I downloaded JRE and ran the following:

[email protected]:~$ sudo ./Downloads/jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin
Unpacking...
Checksumming...
Extracting...
UnZipSFX 5.50 of 17 February 2002, by Info-ZIP ([email protected]).
replace jre-6u21-linux-i586.rpm? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: y
inflating: jre-6u21-linux-i586.rpm 
./Downloads/jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin: 160: rpm: not found

Where did you set the PATH?


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> Any chance of this being "ready for prime-time" for those of us that don't know anything about Linux, before the end of the month, when the current TiVo Premiere discount pricing ends?
> 
> I'm contemplating buying a couple Premiers (non-XL), and just chucking 2TB drives into them.
> 
> Anyway, I very much appreciate the time and effort that is being put into this project.


Yeah, I probably overestimated an average experience with Linux... I am contemplating creating a custom linux CD with everything necessary pre-setup


----------



## lessd

comer said:


> Yeah, I probably overestimated an average experience with Linux... I am contemplating creating a custom linux CD with everything necessary pre-setup


Its worth some money for many of us to just put a disk (CD or DVD) in our PC and make a 1Tb to 2Tb drive for the TP, I would pay $20 for such a disk.


----------



## Gregor

lessd said:


> Its worth some money for many of us to just put a disk (CD or DVD) in our PC and make a 1Tb to 2Tb drive for the TP, I would pay $20 for such a disk.


I would, too.

Does this work to take the 320 gb disk to a 2 TB?


----------



## comer

Gregor said:


> I would, too.


Hmmm... 




> Does this work to take the 320 gb disk to a 2 TB?


Yes


----------



## mkkelly75

You can count me in on that as well. It would be money well spent!


----------



## bsmith1051

comer said:


> By <drive/image> I ment "either drive name or image file name", sorry for confusion
> Please do "dos2unix *.sh" and run "./testLayout.sh /dev/sdb" it will fix the problem
> Meanwhile I replaced the files in downloadable zip with the ones with correct unix line-ends


Would you be willing to start a new post with an updated walk-through procedure? I think you need to include some explicit examples, i.e,. to avoid the confusion about "drive/image". Since this is such an important topic to us Premiere owners I think it would really benefit from a fresh post. Also, as you received feedback on it you could update the initial post (so that newcomers wouldn't have to read the entire thread to find important changes).
_________

Also, is it possible to skip the step where you update the source drive with "chmod o+r" ? I would really like to try this but don't want to make any changes to my original drive, so that I know that I can still use it as a fall-back. Also, thank you so much for sharing this!


----------



## quinn27

bsmith1051 said:


> Also, is it possible to skip the step where you update the source drive with "chmod o+r" ? I would really like to try this but don't want to make any changes to my original drive, so that I know that I can still use it as a fall-back. Also, thank you so much for sharing this!


That command doesn't actually change anything on the drive. All that does is change the permissions of the _device file_, which acts as an interface to the actual drive (in this case, specifically, it's saying to let the owner read the device file--as for who the owner is, root always owns device files). It is nothing more than an abstraction, to provide a "point of entry" to access the raw information on the disk. To be clear, the device file, while it appears to contain everything on the disk, is _not_ the disk itself (or any part thereof).


----------



## comer

quinn27 said:


> That command doesn't actually change anything on the drive. All that does is change the permissions of the _device file_, which acts as an interface to the actual drive (in this case, specifically, it's saying to let the owner read the device file--as for who the owner is, root always owns device files). It is nothing more than an abstraction, to provide a "point of entry" to access the raw information on the disk. To be clear, the device file, while it appears to contain everything on the disk, is _not_ the disk itself (or any part thereof).


Thank you. More presizely, it lets everybody (and I assume you are not doing it on live multi-user server, so pretty much you are alone) to *read* the raw disk. Not *write*.
*bsmith1051* Of course I understand your concern. I, developing the tool, am also concerned not to trash my working disk, that's why I said - backup your data. There are many tools to do that. It's always a good idea to have a full backup of the disk, so if anything goes wrong - with or without Tivo tool (e.g. your disk may go bad - thay do that now more often than ever) you always have something to go back to.
I now understand that majority of users don't have even a basic experience with Linux - which is OK, I just failed to realize that. The tool is there, it works, it just takes a bit of effort to set up the environment. Again, I understand it's not easy to do something one has never done before. That's why I am thinking of putting up a basic Linux CD with everything in it. However, the problem I am facing is that even with all the tool pre-setup, one still needs to run a few commands, correctly specify "from" and "to" disks, waht to do if error happens - it may happen no matter how much one try to prevent it (bad hardware as one example) and so on. Creating a guided setup would take time, which I only have so much.


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> However, the problem I am facing is that even with all the tool pre-setup, one still needs to run a few commands, correctly specify "from" and "to" disks, waht to do if error happens - it may happen no matter how much one try to prevent it (bad hardware as one example) and so on. Creating a guided setup would take time, which I only have so much.


Forgive me for getting a little misty eyed. All of this reminds me of the old Hinsdale days. One day this too will be automated and all of the command line fun and staying up 'till 3 a.m to see if TiVo will boot up will be a fond memory.


----------



## yukit

richsadams said:


> Forgive me for getting a little misty eyed. All of this reminds me of the old Hinsdale days. One day this too will be automated and all of the command line fun and staying up 'till 3 a.m to see if TiVo will boot up will be a fond memory.


+1
lba48 ISO & mfstool; good times


----------



## Gregor

I would be interested in how to backup the drive as well.

As Rich said, the days of the old Hinsdale instructions make me a bit misty-eyed as well. I remember picking up a Series 1 and stopping on the way home to buy an expansion drive. My friends were amazed I'd opened a $400 (?) unit to drop a bigger drive in it, and when they found out the storage capacity, I had requests to do quite a few others.


----------



## aaronwt

richsadams said:


> Forgive me for getting a little misty eyed. All of this reminds me of the old Hinsdale days. One day this too will be automated and all of the command line fun and staying up 'till 3 a.m to see if TiVo will boot up will be a fond memory.


Yes i remember the Hinsdale method I used it many times. But at least in my case I can always ask my girlfriend about any Linux issues, since she has been messing with Unix for thrity years.


----------



## richsadams

Gregor said:


> I would be interested in how to backup the drive as well.
> 
> As Rich said, the days of the old Hinsdale instructions make me a bit misty-eyed as well. I remember picking up a Series 1 and stopping on the way home to buy an expansion drive. My friends were amazed I'd opened a $400 (?) unit to drop a bigger drive in it, and when they found out the storage capacity, I had requests to do quite a few others.


Havng that huge box which had enough space for _two_ drives (A & B) was pretty amazing. TG for Velcro and zip ties! Getting that little silver sticker off w/o tearing it was soooo much fun!


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> So, back to the subject matter: Premiere backup tools exist?


Harddrive is a harddrive, it has sectors, blocks and bytes, no matter Premiere or Windows. Any HDD backup tool with *raw* access (i.e. without any intelligence to skip certain areas) will do. Perhaps Norton Ghost or Paragon Disk Manager to name a few will work.
More generic tools (which all theses "paragons" are based on, btw) will work for sure (based on personal experience) - "dd" and "ddrescue". But it will require enter a command (yes, just one) in a Linux console window


----------



## lessd

comer said:


> Harddrive is a harddrive, it has sectors, blocks and bytes, no matter Premiere or Windows. Any HDD backup tool with *raw* access (i.e. without any intelligence to skip certain areas) will do. Perhaps Norton Ghost or Paragon Disk Manager to name a few will work.
> More generic tools (which all theses "paragons" are based on, btw) will work for sure (based on personal experience) - "dd" and "ddrescue". But it will require enter a command (yes, just one) in a Linux console window


Norton Ghost has never worked before so I doubt it will work with the TP/TPXL for backup. (Ghost has intelligence to skip certain areas like the page file etc and will not recreate the partitions for TiVo.)


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> This is EXACTLY what I was aiming at with my question. I am aware of the existence of dd and dd_rescue for Linux, but not a single comparable utility for Windows (there's WinMFS, but that doesn't compare & doesn't work on Premieres).


There is "dd" for Windows, you know  And also there are live Linux CDs, where you just boot and run whatever


----------



## gespears

Paragon Drive Copy has a RAW mode. It might work. 

Comer, thanks for all your hard work. It's great that there are people like you around that share your knowledge and time.

That being said, I just purchased a drive from DVR-Dude off eBay because the 230 he's charging for a 2 Gb WD drive with the TP software seems reasonable to me for the drive, setting the parameters in the drive, putting the TP system on the drive, testing, packaging it up, sending it to me, etc. Plus don't forget he has PayPal and eBay fees, shipping fees, support time, etc. 

I did the "expand the TiVo HD all by yourself" thing and by the time I got the 750 Gb internal, and 1 Tb external drives all set up and running correctly I was wishing I had a slightly overprice drive I could purchase from eBay. 

With the dvr-dude drive I just stick it in and forget it. Then if I get crazy and feel 317 hours are not enough, I'll add the 2Tb expander that will be out by then. 

Anyway good luck to you all on this endeavor!!


----------



## mellenfan

richsadams said:


> Well crap.  I was kind of hoping it wouldn't work. Now I'm probably going to have to try it. Dang.
> 
> Cheers for the hard work. Now who's going to be the first to be second? Volunteers anyone?


I followed Comer's steps and after a few late nights and lots of PM's to Comer - I did get a 1TB drive to work. I will test the 2TB as soon as I get it replaced since the one I have appears to be bad.

I had to dust off my unix skills -so this is not for the novice.


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> I had also asked the following in the same post:
> "Has it been confirmed that dd/dd_rescue can successfully copy a Premiere's drive? If they can, what happens if the drive you copy to is a different size?"
> 
> You didn't answer that part, which kind of renders the rest moot (if they haven't been verified to work with a Premiere). There's also the matter of what if the target drive isn't exactly the same size as the original.
> 
> I don't want to come across as unpatient, or ungrateful. I just don't want to buy any Premieres, unless I know EXACTLY what i'm getting into, since I would pass on the XLs and would want to upgrade the base Premiere's drive.


Sorry, I missed that  I use dd and ddrescue to backup and restore my own non-XL Premiere's drive all the time. I don't know if anybody else has tried that. At least nobody confessed here  As for the size - if the drive on which you restore the image is bigger - it will be underutilized. Not a problem, but Tivo won't see the extra space without using a Tivo-specific resize/expand/add tool. If the target drive is smaller - it could cause a problem. Tivo would think that space is available, but won't be able to access it. I don't know how it would manifest itself exactly. So the best option is to restore on the same-sized drive.


----------



## puffdaddy

Using a modified version of mfs_tools to work with a TiVo Premiere layout yields a truncated Backup image of around 500MB (i.e. no videos and compressed), just FYI.

Comer, does your expansion tool differ in principle from the "uneven partition coalesce" described on the mfslive forums? *edit: yes, it appears to be the same method*

If so, then the follow up question is whether or not anyone has tested external storage (attempted to add and then remove it).

This was the only outstanding question in my mind as to the long term suitability of such an expansion (which so far has been stable across four months and several upgrades, contrary to Spike's warnings).

*Edit: Comer, if you modify your tool to remove /dev/sda16 from the MFS Superblock, then I think you'll avoid the "missing external storage" at first power-up. Just be sure that you correct the CRC.*


----------



## richsadams

This post?


----------



## comer

puffdaddy said:


> Using a modified version of mfs_tools to work with a TiVo Premiere layout yields a truncated Backup image of around 500MB (i.e. no videos and compressed), just FYI.


I want to try, where is it available?



puffdaddy said:


> Comer, does your expansion tool differ in principle from the "uneven partition coalesce" described on the mfslive forums? *edit: yes, it appears to be the same method*


Almost. The method described on MFSLive does not add any partitions, but modifies the existing one, which yields one partition containing Media Data, new Media App, and New Media Data. Also, because of how Premiere's disk is structured, extending the existing partition means moving most of the disk data to a new location. I add 1 new partitions, which contains only the new portion and do not modify anything about the existing partitions, and disk is copied "as is" on exactly the same place. So it is "add" in its simpliest or purest form  Furthermore, I do believe there are a few places in the mfstools code, that won't work with Premiere correctly. I told about them to *spike* on MFSLive. They are corrected in my tool, of course.



puffdaddy said:


> *Edit: Comer, if you modify your tool to remove /dev/sda16 from the MFS Superblock, then I think you'll avoid the "missing external storage" at first power-up. Just be sure that you correct the CRC.*


I did. The version I put for everybody contains everything.



puffdaddy said:


> BTW, what happened to your original post? Was it pulled by the TCF moderators?


I am not sure which post you are referring to. This one? http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021


----------



## puffdaddy

Thanks, that's it.


----------



## Duke

richsadams said:


> .... Getting that little silver sticker off w/o tearing it was soooo much fun!


+1


----------



## kturcotte

So is there currently a way to take the 320 GB drive out of my Premiere, back it up onto my computer, copy everything to a 2 TB drive, and stick it in my Tivo (With recordings, settings everything just the same as the 320 GB drive)?


----------



## comer

kturcotte said:


> So is there currently a way to take the 320 GB drive out of my Premiere, back it up onto my computer, copy everything to a 2 TB drive, and stick it in my Tivo (With recordings, settings everything just the same as the 320 GB drive)?


Yes, if you are not afraid of Linux command prompt


----------



## richsadams

kturcotte said:


> So is there currently a way to take the 320 GB drive out of my Premiere, back it up onto my computer, copy everything to a 2 TB drive, and stick it in my Tivo (With recordings, settings everything just the same as the 320 GB drive)?


if you mean something relatively simple like winMFS, no, not yet. With the flurry of work such as comer's being done I suspect it won't be long though.


----------



## kturcotte

comer said:


> Yes, if you are not afraid of Linux command prompt


I'm not particularly afraid. Is there anyway I could mess up the original drive (Enough so I couldn't use it)?
What EXACTLY would I want to do?


----------



## comer

kturcotte said:


> I'm not particularly afraid. Is there anyway I could mess up the original drive (Enough so I couldn't use it)?
> What EXACTLY would I want to do?


I would advise to create block-for-block backup image of the drive before you begin. Then you can either use this image as the source or the original drive. Either way you always have something to go back to. You can also (or instead) make the source read-only by chaging permissions on the source drive or image file like "chmod u-w,g-w,o-w " meaning "remove write permission for user, group and everybody else"


----------



## cr33p

I see 2tb WD drives on sale 99 shipped from newegg 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...410-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22136514-L0D

Use promo code EMCYWNR47


----------



## aaronwt

cr33p said:


> I see 2tb WD drives on sale 99 shipped from newegg
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...410-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22136514-L0D
> 
> Use promo code EMCYWNR47


$100 for a 2TB drive. amazing. I paid almost $300 for my first 1TB drives, 250GB drives, and for my very first hard drive which was 20MB(I think it was 20MB, it could have even been 10MB. I'd have to pull out my old IBM 8088 PC and see if it will still boot)

$100 for 2TB of space is nothing short of amazing to me.


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> I see 2tb WD drives on sale 99 shipped from newegg
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...410-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22136514-L0D
> 
> Use promo code EMCYWNR47


I would not use *any* mainstream drives. I have 2 that failed repeatedly - Seagate Barracuda 11 1.5T (was exchanged 4 times under warranty) and WD Caviar Green 1.5T (was exchanged once, but restored with WD tools 3 times after that). If you look closely at the HD specification, you will find that they are *not* certified for 24x7 operation (not obvious, but if you look closely at all drives you will see that when they *can* they do say it is designed for always-on environment). Only Hitachi kind of hints that their desktop drives are designed for 24x7, but not really in black and white in the specifications.

The only drives I know, that are specifically made for Always-on operation are WD AV-GP (Audio/Video series, optimized for sequencial access) and RE4 (server series, optimized for random access). Also Seagate Constellation, but I don't trust Seagate anymore at all.

That's my personal opinion - no desktop drives for servers/PVRs anymore.


----------



## aaronwt

comer said:


> I would not use *any* mainstream drives. I have 2 that failed repeatedly - Seagate Barracuda 11 1.5T (was exchanged 4 times under warranty) and WD Caviar Green 1.5T (was exchanged once, but restored with WD tools 3 times after that). If you look closely at the HD specification, you will find that they are *not* certified for 24x7 operation (not obvious, but if you look closely at all drives you will see that when they *can* they do say it is designed for always-on environment). Only Hitachi kind of hints that their desktop drives are designed for 24x7, but not really in black and white in the specifications.
> 
> The only drives I know, that are specifically made for Always-on operation are WD AV-GP (Audio/Video series, optimized for sequencial access) and RE4 (server series, optimized for random access). Also Seagate Constellation, but I don't trust Seagate anymore at all.
> 
> That's my personal opinion - no desktop drives for servers/PVRs anymore.


I've never had any issues running the drives 24/7. I've been doing it with my home PCs, servers, RAIDs and TiVos for many, many years.

Even my old Phillips DirecTV TiVos are still being used by a friend and also my girlfriends neice. They have old 80GB ide hard drives from the early 2000's. They are still going stong. My girlfriend has two of my old series 3 boxes with 1TB drives. Over 3 years on those 1TB drives and no issues.


----------



## kturcotte

I thought the EVDS line was best for DVRs? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136494


----------



## comer

aaronwt said:


> ... They have old 80GB ide hard drives from the early 2000's. They are still going stong. My girlfriend has two of my old series 3 boxes with 1TB drives. Over 3 years on those 1TB drives and no issues.


Exactly. I have 500g WD IDE drive that has been operating non-stop for years. New drives have higher data density, more platters, hence more sensitive to virbrations, temperatures and so on. Naturally, it costs more to manufacturers to make more precise components and implement rigorous quality control. So higher cost drives are moved to "enterprise" and usage-specific series. The lower cost desktop drives is the luck of the draw I think.
For the past year I've had more HD faults than since I first learned what HD is  Much more. And not only me - I have at least two friends with exactly the same experience.
Why do you think Tivo ships Premieres with AV-GP drives if it costs them more than Caviar Green? 

Anyway, back on the subject 



kturcotte said:


> I'm not particularly afraid. Is there anyway I could mess up the original drive (Enough so I couldn't use it)?
> What EXACTLY would I want to do?


I wanted to clarify that you *don't need the original Tivo drive* while running the expansion tool. You need to copy the original drive to the new bigger one and after that you may disconnect it and stow it away  Only the big drive with the copy of the Tivo disk on it is needed.

Btw, can we call "the tool" something else? It's kinda awkward  I propose "JavaMFS" or "jmfs" for short


----------



## cr33p

comer said:


> I would not use *any* mainstream drives. I have 2 that failed repeatedly - Seagate Barracuda 11 1.5T (was exchanged 4 times under warranty) and WD Caviar Green 1.5T (was exchanged once, but restored with WD tools 3 times after that). If you look closely at the HD specification, you will find that they are *not* certified for 24x7 operation (not obvious, but if you look closely at all drives you will see that when they *can* they do say it is designed for always-on environment). Only Hitachi kind of hints that their desktop drives are designed for 24x7, but not really in black and white in the specifications.
> 
> The only drives I know, that are specifically made for Always-on operation are WD AV-GP (Audio/Video series, optimized for sequencial access) and RE4 (server series, optimized for random access). Also Seagate Constellation, but I don't trust Seagate anymore at all.
> 
> That's my personal opinion - no desktop drives for servers/PVRs anymore.


I hear ya, we have been running WD drives in our tivo's for years, not one failure yet. Generally if I have had a dead one it was DOA , Seagates are nasty loud IMO. Its only TV shows right not anyones life ? LOL too some including my wife she would say its her life.


----------



## kturcotte

comer said:


> Exactly. I have 500g WD IDE drive that has been operating non-stop for years. New drives have higher data density, more platters, hence more sensitive to virbrations, temperatures and so on. Naturally, it costs more to manufacturers to make more precise components and implement rigorous quality control. So higher cost drives are moved to "enterprise" and usage-specific series. The lower cost desktop drives is the luck of the draw I think.
> For the past year I've had more HD faults than since I first learned what HD is  Much more. And not only me - I have at least two friends with exactly the same experience.
> Why do you think Tivo ships Premieres with AV-GP drives if it costs them more than Caviar Green?
> 
> Anyway, back on the subject
> 
> I wanted to clarify that you *don't need the original Tivo drive* while running the expansion tool. You need to copy the original drive to the new bigger one and after that you may disconnect it and stow it away  Only the big drive with the copy of the Tivo disk on it is needed.
> 
> Btw, can we call "the tool" something else? It's kinda awkward  I propose "JavaMFS" or "jmfs" for short


Just a simple copy and paste? I mean, I don't want to mess up the new drive, and then find out I've done something to the old one too lol


----------



## aaronwt

comer said:


> ...........Why do you think Tivo ships Premieres with AV-GP drives if it costs them more than Caviar Green? ................


 Western Digital warranties those drives for environments where they will be used 24/7. The other drives are not warrantied for environments for 24/7 use or for RAID use. Plus the AVR drives are supposed to have an algorithm tuned for video.

But it has never stopped me from using the non DVR drives in 24/7 environments. I've easily used over 100 WD drives at home with no issues once put into service.

At home I currently have over eighty drives under active warranty with Western Digital. And I have around seven or eight Hitachi drives . All doing fine.

Although I don't run all my drives in a 24/7 environment like I used to for the twelve years prior. Electricity rates have made me curb that. So now I only have around a dozen or so that are running 24/7 while the rest I use are only on 8 to 12 hours a day.
And I'm more worried about having issues with drives I stop and start each day than the ones I run 24/7.


----------



## fdiggy

I see 2tb WD drives on sale 99 shipped from newegg

Better hurry and buy before DVR_DUDE buys them all.


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> I have 2 that failed repeatedly - Seagate Barracuda 11 1.5T


Seagate 1.5TB drives have been notoriously bad since the day they started issuing them. (Google one and see the never-ending series of complaints that come up.) I actually went through four of them (with an NAS) before I gave up. Luckily they came from Amazon so instant, no shipping cost returns and credits...but what a hassle. I used to be a Seagate man through and through but since they acquired Maxtor it seems that their QC has really tanked. Might be a coincidence but you never know.

WD used to have a pretty poor rep but in the last four years or so they've risen to the top. In that time I've never had one go south (out of a dozen or so) and almost everyone on the TCF that uses their GP line of drives in their TiVo's seem to be very happy with them.

The Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K has also had a great track record here.

FWIW the A/V line of WD drives are quite good and the AAM is already set to 128, but TiVo cannot take advantage of any of the other "features" they offer. So if one weren't opposed to setting the AAM themselves, the "standard" GP drives will work just fine and are usually a little less expensive.


----------



## ripple

Long time listener ("misty-eyed for the Hinsdale days"), first time caller...

I think jmfs is as good a name for "the tool" as any. Congrats and thanks to those who made this tool possible--in a bit of timing that's quite the opposite of how things usually work for me, I had *just* ordered two Tivo Premieres (one new, one refurb, both with lifetime) as part of my planned conversion from D* to FIOS (or however V* wants it capitalized).



richsadams said:


> FWIW the A/V line of WD drives are quite good and the AAM is already set to 128, but TiVo cannot take advantage of any of the other "features" they offer. So if one weren't opposed to setting the AAM themselves, the "standard" GP drives will work just fine and are usually a little less expensive.


When I priced it out at $140 shipped per drive for the WD20EVDS and $100 shipped per drive for the WD20EARS, my gut reaction was to go with the A/V specc'd drive. When I looked into it a little more, though, at idle the newer EARS drives are actually slightly quieter (1dB, natch). So I went with the cheaper solution and I'll take the risk. I haven't been paying enough attention to noise reduction, obviously, because I wasn't aware of the AAM setting at all--all the DTiVos here have replacement desktop drives, and I'm quite sure I could have made them all quieter.

All of that is a long way of saying: I have two brand new (well one newish) TiVo Premieres in hand, and two WD20EARS drives will be here by the weekend. I fully intend to tackle this ASAP. If anyone has any helpful suggestions (other than the obvious Read The Fine Thread/Manual) then send them along. If there's any part of this process that I should document in photo or with more notes, let me know.

[ripple]


----------



## richsadams

ripple said:


> Long time listener ("misty-eyed for the Hinsdale days"), first time caller...


Welcome and thanks for being another "TiVo Pioneer"! I think we'd all be very interested in your Premiere upgrade experience. Any and all details you'd care to share would be most welcome.

Best of luck and, well, break a leg!


----------



## comer

ripple said:


> All of that is a long way of saying: I have two brand new (well one newish) TiVo Premieres in hand, and two WD20EARS drives will be here by the weekend. I fully intend to tackle this ASAP. If anyone has any helpful suggestions (other than the obvious Read The Fine Thread/Manual) then send them along. If there's any part of this process that I should document in photo or with more notes, let me know.


Welcome to the community! 
Could you do a little experiment with drive expansion, since you are ina perfect position for that, please?
One of the early adopters experienced "Error 51" while expanding non-activated (virgin) Tivo drive. It's not fatal - deleting everything and rebooting clears that off. I wonder if it is a feature and should be added as a warning to the jmfs instructions or it was an environmental flux. Could you expand one of the drives before activation and another one after and post the result, please?


----------



## Gregor

kturcotte said:


> Just a simple copy and paste? I mean, I don't want to mess up the new drive, and then find out I've done something to the old one too lol


Do the Tivo drives have a jumper setting that would make them read-only?


----------



## richsadams

Gregor said:


> Do the Tivo drives have a jumper setting that would make them read-only?


Not AFAIK.


----------



## gespears

Hey guys. Just wanted to add data. I've had a WD black 750GB internal with a 1TB WD black expansion in my THD for over three years without a failure. As a mater of fact, the only WD drive I've had to send into repair was one I dropped. I've used north of 50 units for various projects with no issues.

And speaking of WD drives, I just received my 2TB WD drive from dvr-dude and installed it in my TP that I had not even powered up yet. Yanked the old drive and stored it away. 

Anyway, it powered up, went through setup, it noticed it was only 14.4 so it updated itself to 14.5 and all's well. The Cox cable guy is due tomorrow so cross your fingers!

Good luck with the testing.


----------



## richsadams

gespears said:


> Hey guys. Just wanted to add data.


Thanks for the info. :up: Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## turbobozz

richsadams said:


> Seagate 1.5TB drives have been notoriously bad since the day they started issuing them. (Google one and see the never-ending series of complaints that come up.) I actually went through four of them (with an NAS) before I gave up. Luckily they came from Amazon so instant, no shipping cost returns and credits...but what a hassle. I used to be a Seagate man through and through but since they acquired Maxtor it seems that their QC has really tanked. Might be a coincidence but you never know.


(Not disagreeing that they've had serious problems, just reveling in my luck of the draw...)

I have 4 of the Seagate .11 1.5TB drives, but I haven't had any of them die or cause problems.
1 is from the first week or so they became available (requiring firmware update), 1 is from a few months later, and the other two are later than that.

I feel like I'm playing russian roulette.


----------



## donnoh

turbobozz said:


> (Not disagreeing that they've had serious problems, just reveling in my luck of the draw...)
> 
> I have 4 of the Seagate .11 1.5TB drives, but I haven't had any of them die or cause problems.
> 1 is from the first week or so they became available (requiring firmware update), 1 is from a few months later, and the other two are later than that.
> 
> I feel like I'm playing russian roulette.


A good indicator that your drive will fail is to buy it from Newegg. Every drive I've bought from them has been a piece of crap.


----------



## chewy2314

Any success stories using Comer's util?


----------



## turbobozz

donnoh said:


> A good indicator that your drive will fail is to buy it from Newegg. Every drive I've bought from them has been a piece of crap.


Some of mine are from Newegg, some from Amazon.
Both of them have had issues packing 'OEM' computer parts properly at times.
And, iirc, customers from both were positing that as one reason for some of the .11 drive problems.

I've only ever had one hard drive fail... an IBM... I think in the year or two before they sold the business off to Hitachi. 
I've been lucky with drives... other stuff, not so much.


----------



## donnoh

turbobozz said:


> Some of mine are from Newegg, some from Amazon.
> Both of them have had issues packing 'OEM' computer parts properly at times.
> And, iirc, customers from both were positing that as one reason for some of the .11 drive problems.
> 
> I've only ever had one hard drive fail... an IBM... I think in the year or two before they sold the business off to Hitachi.
> I've been lucky with drives... other stuff, not so much.


It's been about a year since I bought a drive from newegg. All of them I've purchased came shipped in a box full of Styrofoam peanuts. Unless they've changed their shipping practices since, all you're buying is a soon to fail drive.
As far as Amazon goes, the ones I've bought from them are shipped in an individual box sandwiched between plastic isolators that prevent them from bouncing around like ping pong balls.

Take your choice but it's commonly known that neweggs drives are packed like dung and have the reliability of a 74 Vega.


----------



## Gregor

donnoh said:


> A good indicator that your drive will fail is to buy it from Newegg. Every drive I've bought from them has been a piece of crap.


YMMV. I've bought several drives from them, mostly Hitachi or Seagate, without issues.


----------



## aaronwt

Gregor said:


> YMMV. I've bought several drives from them, mostly Hitachi or Seagate, without issues.


+1 although I've bought many dozens from Newegg with no issues. But usually when I'm buying them from Newegg I'm getting at least 4 or more at a time. So they are always packed in a styrofoam container that is designed to hold multiple hard drives.


----------



## gamo62

turbobozz said:


> (Not disagreeing that they've had serious problems, just reveling in my luck of the draw...)
> 
> I have 4 of the Seagate .11 1.5TB drives, but I haven't had any of them die or cause problems.
> 1 is from the first week or so they became available (requiring firmware update), 1 is from a few months later, and the other two are later than that.
> 
> I feel like I'm playing russian roulette.


I wished Western Digital made a 2tb SATA 6 Caviar Black hard drive. The largest they have is a 1tb. I had to buy a Seagate Barracuda XT 2TB drive. (For the desktop, not the Tivo)


----------



## aaronwt

gamo62 said:


> I wished Western Digital made a 2tb SATA 6 Caviar Black hard drive. The largest they have is a 1tb. I had to buy a Seagate Barracuda XT 2TB drive. (For the desktop, not the Tivo)


Just throw several in a RAID 0. For my main desktop I did not want to spend the money on a solid state drive, so I just got several of the cheap WD Caviar Blue drives and put three 250GB drives in a RAID 0 setup for my C drive and put two 500GB ones in a RAID 0 for a data drive.
And since the RAIDs are so small, I use one 2TB WD green drive with my ReBit software for backup of the two RAIDs.

From a speed perspective, the WD Blue drives are as fast as the Black drives. There is just a shorter warranty with the Blue drives and less cache memory.


----------



## jterwelp

puffdaddy said:


> Using a modified version of mfs_tools to work with a TiVo Premiere layout yields a truncated Backup image of around 500MB (i.e. no videos and compressed), just FYI.


Is this modified version of mfs_tools publicly available? I am under the impression that the only way to create a working backup of a Premiere drive is a 1:1 copy which requires tying up another same-sized hard drive.

If it is possible back up a Premiere drive to a CD (sans recordings, obviously), I think that's something that would garner quite a bit of interest.


----------



## MikeAndrews

donnoh said:


> It's been about a year since I bought a drive from newegg. All of them I've purchased came shipped in a box full of Styrofoam peanuts. Unless they've changed their shipping practices since, all you're buying is a soon to fail drive.
> As far as Amazon goes, the ones I've bought from them are shipped in an individual box sandwiched between plastic isolators that prevent them from bouncing around like ping pong balls.
> 
> Take your choice but it's commonly known that neweggs drives are packed like dung and have the reliability of a 74 Vega.


NewEgg is now wrapping the OEM drives in bubble wrap and putting that in a tight-fitting cardboard inner box, then they pack that box in a larger box in foam peanuts.

I still had one of my two just purchased WD 2TB Green drives be DOA. I also had a 1TB Hitachi drive destined to the external for my S3 be DOA before they changed the packing.

Then I bought a 2TB 5400RPM Seagate drive (for $89, shipped!). It works fine.

I'd still buy elsewhere if the price is close. Returning the drives cost me $10-$15, an hour or two of aggravation and 10 days of time to get the replacement. NewEgg not only doesn't apologize, every step is as if you the customer screwed up, "Your return has been authorized.... Your return has been accepted." I'm sooooo happy that my broken and paid for new purchase has been "accepted" after it cost me money and time.


----------



## Bai Shen

Smeeking here.

So are we able to upgrade Premiere's to 2TB drives?


----------



## richsadams

Bai Shen said:


> Smeeking here.
> 
> So are we able to upgrade Premiere's to 2TB drives?


If you're comfortable with command line/coding, etc. A brave TCF Member (comer) has devised a way to upgrade a Premiere to 2TB's. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021

If you're looking for something a little more simple like winMFS or even MFStools, nothing is available just yet.


----------



## eaayoung

I'm starting to regret the purchase of the extending warranty that I purchased with the Premiere.


----------



## richsadams

eaayoung said:


> I'm starting to regret the purchase of the extending warranty that I purchased with the Premiere.


How so? If you're regretting it because you feel you can't upgrade until it expires there are only a couple of posted cases where TiVo refused an exchange when the original drive was reinstalled and the box was returned intact otherwise.

It's true TiVo "knows" when a box has been upgraded if they take the time to look at their logs...or if one feels the need to confess everything to a TiVo CSR. However as long as nothing has been damaged during the upgrade, and again, the original hard drive is in place upon return the odds of being denied warranty services are very slim.

FWIW hard drives are the number one TiVo failure point by an overwhelming margin. If you upgrade and put the original drive on the shelf and your new drive fails at some point, you can always slip the original back in and not only be back up and running in minutes, but still have a "fresh" image for a replacement drive. If it's something else that fails (power supply, etc.), you can slip the original drive back inside and send it in for an exchange.

BTW, I'm not advocating breaking any warranties, actual, implied or expressed.


----------



## lessd

netringer said:


> NewEgg is now wrapping the OEM drives in bubble wrap and putting that in a tight-fitting cardboard inner box, then they pack that box in a larger box in foam peanuts.
> 
> I still had one of my two just purchased WD 2TB Green drives be DOA. I also had a 1TB Hitachi drive destined to the external for my S3 be DOA before they changed the packing.
> 
> Then I bought a 2TB 5400RPM Seagate drive (for $89, shipped!). It works fine.
> 
> I'd still buy elsewhere if the price is close. Returning the drives cost me $10-$15, an hour or two of aggravation and 10 days of time to get the replacement. NewEgg not only doesn't apologize, every step is as if you the customer screwed up, "Your return has been authorized.... Your return has been accepted." I'm sooooo happy that my broken and paid for new purchase has been "accepted" after it cost me money and time.


You must be doing something incorrect as NewEgg would E-Mail me a UPS return label (at no cost) for any DOA drive I purchased from them.


----------



## KenVa

I did it! I'm now the proud owner of a 2TB Premiere. I went from a 96% full disk to 15% full.

I used comer's tool and it worked with out a glitch! I had a few issues getting Sun's java on a ubuntu live CD, but after that all was good. The tool doesn't work with the openjdk java that comes with ubuntu. 

Just one question for comer. Whenever the 3TB drives come out will I be able to copy my new 2TB to a 3TB disk and use your tool again, or will I have to go back to the original drive.


Thanks again for your work!


----------



## EdH

KenVa said:


> I did it! I'm now the proud owner of a 2TB Premiere. I went from a 96% full disk to 15% full.
> 
> I used comer's tool and it worked with out a glitch! I had a few issues getting Sun's java on a ubuntu live CD, but after that all was good. The tool doesn't work with the openjdk java that comes with ubuntu.
> 
> Thanks again for your work!


Is there any way you can make the Ubuntu live CD with Sun's java available? That would be a huge help.

Failing that, can you detail the steps to get Sun's java on the CD?

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## comer

KenVa said:


> I did it! I'm now the proud owner of a 2TB Premiere. I went from a 96% full disk to 15% full.
> 
> I used comer's tool and it worked with out a glitch!
> ...


Congratulations!  And thank you for giving it a shot 



> Just one question for comer. Whenever the 3TB drives come out will I be able to copy my new 2TB to a 3TB disk and use your tool again, or will I have to go back to the original drive.


Running tool multiple times - is the area where we need more testing in general. I suspect it won't sit well with Tivo. However, I am developing (well, almost done) another resizing tool, that "(enlarge or shrink) any given partition, perhaps representing the holy grail of mfstools: mfs_resize" as someone said  No shrink though. That is - resize without creating any new data structure. That would work *together* with the current tool - because a partition in Tivo is limited to 2T, but resizing one and adding another would be able to accomodate up to 4T. Again, this is a theory


----------



## KenVa

EdH said:


> Is there any way you can make the Ubuntu live CD with Sun's java available? That would be a huge help.
> 
> Failing that, can you detail the steps to get Sun's java on the CD?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed


I just used the ubuntu install CD that you can download from ubuntu.com and ran ubuntu from the CD instead of installing it. Whatever you install is just in memory and is gone when you reboot. 
After its running go under the menu System/Administration/Software Sources and check the box for "Main" then click update.
Then I used the steps shown here.
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-insta...vironment-jre-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx.html
Except the last step didn't work, so I had to finish installing it by running "Synaptic Package Manager" under the Applications menu I think. I found a reference that here: http://www.clickonf5.org/linux/how-install-sun-java-ubuntu-1004-lts/7777

I sort of had to piece it together as I went with a little help from google.

If you just run off the CD you don't need to install anything on your computer and its all gone when your done. Thats both good and bad I wish I had a copy that was ready to go.


----------



## EdH

KenVa said:


> If you just run off the CD you don't need to install anything on your computer and its all gone when your done.


Thanks for the feedback.

One thing that confuses me though is this: If you run off a cd which is presumably read only, how would java ever be installed?

Thanks,

Ed

P.S. I'm gonna give it a shot!


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> One thing that confuses me though is this: If you run off a cd which is presumably read only, how would java ever be installed?


It creates a ramdisk, which is read/writable.



> P.S. I'm gonna give it a shot!


Good luck! :up:


----------



## chewy2314

KenVa said:


> I did it! I'm now the proud owner of a 2TB Premiere. I went from a 96% full disk to 15% full.
> 
> I used comer's tool and it worked with out a glitch! I had a few issues getting Sun's java on a ubuntu live CD, but after that all was good. The tool doesn't work with the openjdk java that comes with ubuntu.
> 
> Just one question for comer. Whenever the 3TB drives come out will I be able to copy my new 2TB to a 3TB disk and use your tool again, or will I have to go back to the original drive.
> 
> Thanks again for your work!


That is awesome!!!:up:


----------



## steve614

Excellent! Kudos to comer. 

Now I can experiment if I ever come across a Premiere on the cheap. :up:


----------



## richsadams

chewy2314 said:


> That is awesome!!!:up:


Agreed! My Premiere XL's 1TB drive is around 85% full so I could use some more space pretty soon. Sounds like there are a few bugs to be worked out, but I think I'll jump in when the time is right! :up:


----------



## Trekboy

Comer talks about making a backup image of the Premiere drive, which I'd like to do. I haven't worked on a TiVo in a while, but I have upgraded drives before (I'm a little rusty) Would someone be kind enough to point me at the right directions for creating an image of the Premiere drive? Should I use the MFS tools as shown here: (http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/quickstart.htm#backup_restore)

Thanks in advance everyone! My 2TB drive should arrive Monday and I can't wait to upgrade!


----------



## steinercat

comer said:


> It creates a ramdisk, which is read/writable.
> 
> Good luck! :up:


thanks for the development comer.

I have a feeling you and spike are *very close* to a mfslive-type solution.


----------



## steve614

Trekboy said:


> Would someone be kind enough to point me at the right directions for creating an image of the Premiere drive?


If I have been reading right, you need to expand the drive comer's way.

Start here:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021

edit:

If all you want to do is make an image of the drive, all you need is 'dd' or 'ddrescue', IIRC.


----------



## Trekboy

steve614 said:


> If I have been reading right, you need to expand the drive comer's way.
> 
> Start here:
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021
> 
> edit:
> 
> If all you want to do is make an image of the drive, all you need is 'dd' or 'ddrescue', IIRC.


Thanks Steve. Can you tell me the exact command I'd use w/ddrescue to make the image?


----------



## EdH

Hi,

I'm just getting started trying Comer's upgrade (thank you!).

I opened my Premier and was surprised to see the drive was installed upside down.

Are they all like this? Is it OK for them to be upside down?

Thanks,


Ed


----------



## comer

Trekboy said:


> Thanks Steve. Can you tell me the exact command I'd use w/ddrescue to make the image?


First, you need to have read permission for source drive and write permission for target. So do it as root or sudo.

*Important:* the specied ouput file/device will be completely rewritten, so make sure input and output specified correctly (not mixed up).
As a precaution I always make the source read-only, just in case (chmod u-w,g-w,o-w <tivo drive>)

For dd:
dd if=<tivo drive> of=<image file name or another drive>
e.g. "dd if=/dev/sda of=tivo_disk.img"
If you want to compress it on the fly (virgin drive compresses A LOT because it is mostly zeroes) make dd outputif to sdout and pipe it into zip:
dd if=<tivo drive> | bzip2 -c9 ><compressed image name>
e.g. "dd if=/dev/sda | bzip2 -c9 >tivo_image.img.bz2"

dd is silent, so you won't see a progress, unless you send USR1 signal to it (like kill -USR1 ).

For ddrescue
ddrescue -r 3 -v <tivo drive> <image file name or another drive>

e.g. "ddrescue -r 3 -v /dev/sda tivo_image.img"

ddrescue gives out nice interactive progress, but can not compress on the fly.


----------



## Trekboy

comer said:


> First, you need to have read permission for source drive and write permission for target. So do it as root or sudo.
> 
> *Important:* the specied ouput file/device will be completely rewritten, so make sure input and output specified correctly (not mixed up).
> As a precaution I always make the source read-only, just in case (chmod u-w,g-w,o-w <tivo drive>)
> 
> For dd:
> dd if=<tivo drive> of=<image file name or another drive>
> e.g. "dd if=/dev/sda of=tivo_disk.img"
> If you want to compress it on the fly (virgin drive compresses A LOT because it is mostly zeroes) make dd outputif to sdout and pipe it into zip:
> dd if=<tivo drive> | bzip2 -c9 ><compressed image name>
> e.g. "dd if=/dev/sda | bzip2 -c9 >tivo_image.img.bz2"
> 
> dd is silent, so you won't see a progress, unless you send USR1 signal to it (like kill -USR1 ).
> 
> For ddrescue
> ddrescue -r 3 -v <tivo drive> <image file name or another drive>
> 
> e.g. "ddrescue -r 3 -v /dev/sda tivo_image.img"
> 
> ddrescue gives out nice interactive progress, but can not compress on the fly.


Awesome! Thank you Comer!


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> Hi,
> I'm just getting started trying Comer's upgrade (thank you!).
> I opened my Premier and was surprised to see the drive was installed upside down.
> Are they all like this? Is it OK for them to be upside down?
> Thanks,
> Ed


I know what you mean  From WD drives installation doc:



> *# Mount the drive in the system*
> 
> * Desktop Drives: The drive can be mounted in a standard 3.5"device bay. The drive can be mounted sideways, on end, or even upside down as long as the mounting screws are used properly.


----------



## EdH

comer said:


> I know what you mean  From WD drives installation doc:


Thanks!


----------



## MikeAndrews

EdH said:


> ...I opened my Premier and was surprised to see the drive was installed upside down.
> 
> Are they all like this? Is it OK for them to be upside down?





comer said:


> I know what you mean  From WD drives installation doc:


It's a good idea to look up the manufacturer's tech specs as above. I've seen some (older Seagate?) that said it could be installed in any orientation _except_ label side down.


----------



## EdH

netringer said:


> It's a good idea to look up the manufacturer's tech specs as above. I've seen some (older Seagate?) that said it could be installed in any orientation _except_ label side down.


Yes, will do.

Thanks.


----------



## EdH

Hi,

I installed the Premier drive in my pc.

The bios sees it ok. BUT

Windows says it has to be initialized before it can be used. That I don't want to do!

Linux (Ubuntu 10.4) does not show it with fdisk -l and

I took a shot and tried fdisk /dev/sd<x><n>
where x = b,c,d & e
n = <blank> & 1

In all cases "Unable to open..."

I can't use hdparm b/c I don't know the device name.

What next?

I'm stuck!

Thanks,

Ed

P.S. I tried installing the new, larger drive to see if I had the same problem. I do, both Windows and Linux don't see the drive.

Ed


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> Linux (Ubuntu 10.4) does not show it with fdisk -l


Let's see... What does it say, exactly? Can you copy/paste please? Your live cd does have network and a browser, doesn't it?


----------



## EdH

comer said:


> Let's see... What does it say, exactly? Can you copy/paste please? Your live cd does have network and a browser, doesn't it?


Thanks for your help!

fdisk -l doesn't see the drive at all. It only sees the main/bootable drive in the pc.

Here's the result:
[email protected]:~$ sudo fdisk -l
[sudo] password for ed:

Disk /dev/sda: 42.9 GB, 42949672960 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 5221 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x0005e1ec

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 5002 40175616 83 Linux
/dev/sda2 5002 5222 1764353 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 5002 5222 1764352 82 Linux swap / Solaris

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> Windows says it has to be initialized before it can be used.





EdH said:


> fdisk -l doesn't see the drive at all.


Did you add the disk to your VMWare player as a resource? It does not have to be recognized by Windows (i.e. contain recognizable partitions, it has to be present as a device of course) to be available for Linux in the player.


----------



## EdH

comer said:


> Did you add the disk to your VMWare player as a resource? It does not have to be recognized by Windows (i.e. contain recognizable partitions, it has to be present as a device of course) to be available for Linux in the player.


No, I didn't realize that was necessary.

I'm in the process of installing Linux on another PC so will have to wait a bit to try that.

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## EdH

comer said:


> Did you add the disk to your VMWare player as a resource? It does not have to be recognized by Windows (i.e. contain recognizable partitions, it has to be present as a device of course) to be available for Linux in the player.


OK, I "introduced" the second drive to VMWare (I used the new drive for testing).

That worked! fdisk -l now finds the sees the new drive.

However, I'm a bit nervous about using the original Premier drive in this configuration. I had to tell VMWare that the drive would be used for Linux. Did it write something to the drive? Could that mess up the original drive?

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> OK, I "introduced" the second drive to VMWare (I used the new drive for testing).
> 
> That worked! fdisk -l now finds the sees the new drive.
> 
> However, I'm a bit nervous about using the original Premier drive in this configuration. I had to tell VMWare that the drive would be used for Linux. Did it write something to the drive? Could that mess up the original drive?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed


It shouldn't but it would be wise to backup it first.


----------



## EdH

comer said:


> It shouldn't but it would be wise to backup it first.


But that's the dilemma. I can't back it up till I bring it up in Linux (under VMWare).

If I introduce the original drive and it does write something to it, I'm sunk!

When I tried to see the drive in Windows it (Windows) wanted to initialize it first. That must involve writing to the drive. Right?

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## Trekboy

comer said:


> For dd:
> dd if=<tivo drive> of=<image file name or another drive>
> e.g. "dd if=/dev/sda of=tivo_disk.img"
> If you want to compress it on the fly (virgin drive compresses A LOT because it is mostly zeroes) make dd outputif to sdout and pipe it into zip:
> dd if=<tivo drive> | bzip2 -c9 ><compressed image name>
> e.g. "dd if=/dev/sda | bzip2 -c9 >tivo_image.img.bz2"


Comer - give or take, about how big would a compressed image be given the parameters above? Mines up to about 18.5GB after 3 1/2 hours of run time, and I'm wondering what the average size you've seen so far has been.

Thanks!


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> But that's the dilemma. I can't back it up till I bring it up in Linux (under VMWare).
> 
> If I introduce the original drive and it does write something to it, I'm sunk!
> 
> When I tried to see the drive in Windows it (Windows) wanted to initialize it first. That must involve writing to the drive. Right?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed


Correct. Don't do anything with the drive under Windows!
I understand your dilemma. You said you are installing another Linux - it must be about done by now  Or instead, you could just burn the LiveCD and boot into it - no Windows involved


----------



## comer

Trekboy said:


> Comer - give or take, about how big would a compressed image be given the parameters above? Mines up to about 18.5GB after 3 1/2 hours of run time, and I'm wondering what the average size you've seen so far has been.
> 
> Thanks!


My virgin drive is roughly 5G compressed (from 320G). 99% full drive - 300G. No wonder, there are almost no empty space on it - hard to compress


----------



## Trekboy

comer said:


> My virgin drive is roughly 5G compressed (from 320G). 99% full drive - 300G. No wonder, there are almost no empty space on it - hard to compress


Thanks! I'm up to 24GB on a virgin drive. I'm going to kill the process, reboot and start over. If yours came in @ 5G, and mine it 5X's that, something's got to be wrong.


----------



## EdH

comer said:


> Correct. Don't do anything with the drive under Windows!
> I understand your dilemma. You said you are installing another Linux - it must be about done by now  Or instead, you could just burn the LiveCD and boot into it - no Windows involved


OK, got the separate Linux machine up and running and it sees the new drive (have not tried the original Premier drive yet but that will, I'm sure, work too.

fdisk -l does report that the disk does not contain a valid partition table; but that's to be expected on a brand new drive. It also probably means that VMWare didn't write to it. That's a good sign.

Next step, back up the original drive.

Thanks for your help!

Ed


----------



## comer

Trekboy said:


> Thanks! I'm up to 24GB on a virgin drive. I'm going to kill the process, reboot and start over. If yours came in @ 5G, and mine it 5X's that, something's got to be wrong.


I see your point, but I wouldn't stop  I don't know why yours comes out larger, but I am sure the process is correct and you can verify the zip after it's all done as well.
I will write backup/restore eventually, for now we just have to bear with huge backups  Actually, it's not a bad idea to have an exact copy of your drive at least once  just in case


----------



## EdH

Trekboy said:


> Thanks! I'm up to 24GB on a virgin drive. I'm going to kill the process, reboot and start over. If yours came in @ 5G, and mine it 5X's that, something's got to be wrong.


I'm currently up to 70gb on an image file.

I'm going to let it run tonight and see how it is in the AM.

Ed


----------



## EdH

Hi Comer,

My Linux machine has only 2 sata ports and one is taken up by the Linux installation.

So I'm currently ddrescue(ing) to an image file. I hope it doesn't fill up my drive.

Does ddrescue create an image file that's the same size as the source drive?

Anyway, since I'm limited in sata connections, can I ddrescue the image file to the new drive and then expand it on the drive?

I assume that would work; but just want to verify.

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

EdH said:


> I'm currently up to 70gb on an image file.


Heh heh. When I first skimmed this thread I assumed that "of course you can easily image compress an 'empty' drive". But it occurs to me that if I were TiVo or DVR Dude or Weaknees I might just initialize unused sectors with random data. That wouldn't impact functionality but would inconvenience people attempting to archive "virgin" drive images.

And that's for a "virgin" drive. Once a drive has been "used" for video storage, it would be impossible for a "dumb" image backup sequence such as dd-->gzip to compress the bits even if the recorded programs are first deleted. The deletion only changes some pointer data. 99.99% of the the bits on the disk remain unchanged, as incompressible MPEG data.

Of course WinMFS (thanks Spike) is not a "dumb" program, and so has no problems efficiently archiving an empty drive. Too bad he hasn't updated it for the Premiere. But if I were him I'd probably be similarly disinclined. Altruism doesn't usually put bread on the table.


----------



## Trekboy

On mine at least. looking at Comer's "testLayout.sh" script, the results tell me I have 3.7GB of data, and 290.25GB of free space. While your hypothesis sounds good, if the script is running correctly it's telling me that I only have 3.7GB worth of data to backup, and the image should just need to create empty space for the remainder.

Ran a backup overnight using dd and the bzip2 method, and it got up to 30GB then apparently the power flickered. I'm just going drive to drive tonight when my 2TB drive gets here today.


----------



## comer

Trekboy said:


> On mine at least. looking at Comer's "testLayout.sh" script, the results tell me I have 3.7GB of data, and 290.25GB of free space. While your hypothesis sounds good, if the script is running correctly it's telling me that I only have 3.7GB worth of data to backup, and the image should just need to create empty space for the remainder.


That's free from Tivo's point of view. "Smart" backup could recognize this perhaps. As Phantom said - if there are remnants of a data in that logically unused space, a "dumb" backup won't be able to compress efficiently.


----------



## KenVa

So far my 2TB Premiere has been doing great and filling up with no problems.

However when I look at the amount of recording capacity under System Information it is a little less than I had expected. I'm seeing 290 HD hours. I looked at DVR Dude who is selling 2TB drives for the tivo and a screen shot from his web site shows 317 HD hours. Then I remembered that there was this thing to add in extra reserved space on the series 3 machines and I wondered if that applied to premiere. In the FAQ for upgrading the series 3 machines http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784 it is mentioned on page 1 under the section What does the "MfsSupersize" option do?


----------



## EdH

Comer,

You da man!

Everything worked perfectly. I now have 290 HD hours.

There is one minor typo in your instruction on page 11 of this thread.

In Linux instructions step 7 you say: Execute "./mfsadd.bat <new drive>"

That should be: Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>".

Thanks!

Ed


----------



## kturcotte

Hoping some 2.5 TB drives FINALLY come out to drive the price of the 2 TB down even further (Sub $100 would be nice!!!).


----------



## EdH

Just a couple of observations on my update experience:

1. The hard disk brackets in the Premier require that the drive be installed upside down. As one member noted, that could be a problem with some drives.

2. My new hard disk, HITACHI Deskstar H3IK20003272SP (0S02861) 2TB, runs HOT.

I hope that won't be a problem. But time will tell.

Ed

P.S. Comer. You're the best!


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> Comer,
> 
> You da man!
> 
> Everything worked perfectly. I now have 290 HD hours.
> 
> There is one minor typo in your instruction on page 11 of this thread.
> 
> In Linux instructions step 7 you say: Execute "./mfsadd.bat <new drive>"
> 
> That should be: Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>".
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ed


Got it! Thanks! :up:


----------



## comer

KenVa said:


> So far my 2TB Premiere has been doing great and filling up with no problems.
> 
> However when I look at the amount of recording capacity under System Information it is a little less than I had expected. I'm seeing 290 HD hours. I looked at DVR Dude who is selling 2TB drives for the tivo and a screen shot from his web site shows 317 HD hours. Then I remembered that there was this thing to add in extra reserved space on the series 3 machines and I wondered if that applied to premiere. In the FAQ for upgrading the series 3 machines http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784 it is mentioned on page 1 under the section What does the "MfsSupersize" option do?


Yeah, one member already asked me about Supersize. I am investigating. 
The sources are closed, so I have to get bits and pieces here and there. I wonder, would "supersize" work on Premiere just as it is? As far as I understand it works with MFS on a high-level, which should be identical to S3...


----------



## KenVa

comer said:


> Yeah, one member already asked me about Supersize. I am investigating.
> The sources are closed, so I have to get bits and pieces here and there. I wonder, would "supersize" work on Premiere just as it is? As far as I understand it works with MFS on a high-level, which should be identical to S3...


That would be great if it would just work. From what I understand about using it on a S3 is that it can be done at any time without affecting any of the existing recordings. Any volunteers who have just made a new Premiere disk want to give it a try. I guess the sooner I try it the easier any failure would be to take.


----------



## Trekboy

I'm planning to do mine tonight, would like to try it. Would I just run WinMFS on the new disk (2TB) and choose the Supersize option? The last time I did a TiVo drive was back in the Hinsdale days on a S2 box.


----------



## KenVa

Trekboy said:


> I'm planning to do mine tonight, would like to try it. Would I just run WinMFS on the new disk (2TB) and choose the Supersize option? The last time I did a TiVo drive was back in the Hinsdale days on a S2 box.


From what I understand yes. After you do the copy and run comer's tool. You may want to try putting it back in your Tivo before running Supersize to check the amount of recoding space under System Information. Then run Supersize and check it again and hopefully you with see the increase. If do it let us know how it does. I will be waiting with screw driver in hand. 

Good Luck


----------



## aaronwt

kturcotte said:


> Hoping some 2.5 TB drives FINALLY come out to drive the price of the 2 TB down even further (Sub $100 would be nice!!!).


HAsn't Seagate already introduced 3TB external drives(5 platter) for $250with the intention of selling the bare drive later this year or early next year?
So someone could purchase a 3TB external drive, and crack it open to access the five platter Barracuda XT.
This is what I did, at an even higher cost when the first, five platter, 1TB drives came out.(although with the Hitachi drives and they are still running in my girlfriends Series 3 TiVos)
Although I have no plans on doing it with the 3TB drives.


----------



## aaronwt

EdH said:


> Just a couple of observations on my update experience:
> 
> 1. The hard disk brackets in the Premier require that the drive be installed upside down. As one member noted, that could be a problem with some drives.
> 
> 2. My new hard disk, HITACHI Deskstar H3IK20003272SP (0S02861) 2TB, runs HOT.
> 
> I hope that won't be a problem. But time will tell.
> 
> Ed
> 
> P.S. Comer. Your the best!


I have a 2TB Hitachi from DVR Dude in one of my Premieres. That Premiere only runs one degree warmer than my Premiere XL boxes(and my Premiere with a 1TB DVR dude Hitachi drive). And my Premiere XL boxes run one degree warmer than the 320GB Premieres which are at 33/34 degrees.


----------



## EdH

aaronwt said:


> I have a 2TB Hitachi from DVR Dude in one of my Premieres. That Premiere only runs one degree warmer than my Premiere XL boxes(and my Premiere with a 1TB DVR dude Hitachi drive). And my Premiere XL boxes run one degree warmer than the 320GB Premieres which are at 33/34 degrees.


Actually Tivo reports the temperature is 37 C (Normal).  I don't know what it was b4 the drive was swapped.

But the Hitachi drive is HOT. I know this b/c I had it out while copying from the original drive. The original drive was quite cool.

Ed


----------



## Bai Shen

So has anyone tried the upgrad with one of the 4k drives?


----------



## Trekboy

KenVa said:


> From what I understand yes. After you do the copy and run comer's tool. You may want to try putting it back in your Tivo before running Supersize to check the amount of recoding space under System Information. Then run Supersize and check it again and hopefully you with see the increase. If do it let us know how it does. I will be waiting with screw driver in hand.
> 
> Good Luck


Successfully expanded to my 2TB drive! Woo Hoo, thanks Comer! 290 hours of HD recording. Tried supersizing via WinMFS beta 9.3f, but got the following error box:

GUI Tools to backup restore expand fix TiVo Hard drives has stopped working

When I click View -> MSINFO, it says "Not a Tivo Drive!"

Still, happy w/290 hours of HD recording!


----------



## KenVa

Trekboy said:


> Successfully expanded to my 2TB drive! Woo Hoo, thanks Comer! 290 hours of HD recording. Tried supersizing via WinMFS beta 9.3f, but got the following error box:
> 
> GUI Tools to backup restore expand fix TiVo Hard drives has stopped working
> 
> When I click View -> MSINFO, it says "Not a Tivo Drive!"
> 
> Still, happy w/290 hours of HD recording!


Thats a bummer that supersize didn't work. 

Congrats on your upgrade though!


----------



## comer

Trekboy said:


> Successfully expanded to my 2TB drive! Woo Hoo, thanks Comer! 290 hours of HD recording.


Congrats! :up:



> Tried supersizing via WinMFS beta 9.3f, but got the following error box:
> GUI Tools to backup restore expand fix TiVo Hard drives has stopped working
> When I click View -> MSINFO, it says "Not a Tivo Drive!"
> Still, happy w/290 hours of HD recording!


I would try Supersize *before* expanding  jmfs adds another partition, which WinMFS may not recognize. It still may not work, but I think it's even less likely after expand  My drive is doing havy copying right now, or I would try myself


----------



## aaronwt

KenVa said:


> Thats a bummer that supersize didn't work.
> 
> Congrats on your upgrade though!


So what are the people doing that sell the drives to get 317 hours on the Sys Info screen from a 2TB drive?


----------



## t1voproof

aaronwt said:


> So what are the people doing that sell the drives to get 317 hours on the Sys Info screen from a 2TB drive?


Good question, that's a big difference


----------



## fdiggy

Anyone else notice DVR_DUDE auction says people are copying his drive and reselling. Appears he reads here often. Steals from members then to Ebay for resale. That is a loser! People who bought from him in last 30 days should return their drive since you can do it yourself now. File Ebay complaint and PayPal will refund you. Save yourself $130. This guy has been stealing info and tools from here for years and reselling it on Ebay. He has feedback on upgrades all the way back to 2006. He has been making a living off other peoples efforts for years. What a dirt bag. Then has a small piece of info he could share and doesnt. He was selling the hacked drives way back with killhdinitrd hack. 
Why i got on his case is when looking to buy a Premiere TiVo a month ago i kept getting his upgrade auctions. It looks like you are getting a TiVo then i would notice its a hard drive only. Just aggravated me. I did finally get a TiVo Premiere though. And the stock record space is enough for me. Side note WD 2TB drives are on sale right now $104 shipped at eWiz with coupon HELLO.
Samsung 1.5TB $67, for that price i may go ahead and upgrade just to have the stock drive as a backup in case drive died just before the Raiders game started.


----------



## MikeAndrews

fdiggy said:


> Anyone else notice DVR_DUDE auction says people are copying his drive and reselling. Appears he reads here often. Steals from members then to Ebay for resale. ...


What did he steal? Nobody is FORCED to buy what he's selling. He's selling a service. The service is not having to tear apart a PC and do the delicate process of partitioning and copying a raw hard disk.

Even the GPL does not prohibit selling the free code for the price of the media or a value add service as long as you include the source code.

The other well-known TiVo upgrade providers are also selling pre-configured 2TB drives. (The question might be which one figured it out first and which ones copied the research, if any. I know one said that their "guru" figured it out and they weren't going to tell what for competitive reasons)

Take a pill and let the market decide if the products are worth what he charges for it.


----------



## richsadams

fdiggy said:


> Samsung 1.5TB $67, for that price i may go ahead and upgrade just to have the stock drive as a backup in case drive died just before the Raiders game started.


FWIW I'd stay away from the Sammy drives. They have a checkered past with respect to TiVo (I tried a Spinpoint w/our TiVo HD and could never get it to work...works as a backup drive for a computer though). They've never been on the recommended list for good reason.


----------



## aaronwt

fdiggy said:


> Anyone else notice DVR_DUDE auction says people are copying his drive and reselling. Appears he reads here often. Steals from members then to Ebay for resale. That is a loser! People who bought from him in last 30 days should return their drive since you can do it yourself now. File Ebay complaint and PayPal will refund you. Save yourself $130. This guy has been stealing info and tools from here for years and reselling it on Ebay. He has feedback on upgrades all the way back to 2006. He has been making a living off other peoples efforts for years. What a dirt bag. Then has a small piece of info he could share and doesnt. He was selling the hacked drives way back with killhdinitrd hack.
> Why i got on his case is when looking to buy a Premiere TiVo a month ago i kept getting his upgrade auctions. It looks like you are getting a TiVo then i would notice its a hard drive only. Just aggravated me. I did finally get a TiVo Premiere though. And the stock record space is enough for me. Side note WD 2TB drives are on sale right now $104 shipped at eWiz with coupon HELLO.
> Samsung 1.5TB $67, for that price i may go ahead and upgrade just to have the stock drive as a backup in case drive died just before the Raiders game started.


All the auctions specifically say hard drive upgrade. There was no confusion when I purchased mine and that was over two months ago. I see current auctions are still the same. It says right there that it is a hard drive upgrade. There is zero confusion with those auction as to what you are buying.


----------



## johnfarmer55

Ok, I've read this entire thread and I'm still a bit confused, maybe I killed too many brain cells this weekend! Anyway, I just ordered a TiVo Premiere and I have a 1TB drive that's just laying around. If I want to put it in the TP using Comer's way I need 1TB of free space on my system? I'm running Win7 on a 1Tb Drive right now. Thanks and sorry for the dumb question.

--J55


----------



## jmill

aaronwt said:


> All the auctions specifically say hard drive upgrade. There was no confusion when I purchased mine and that was over two months ago. I see current auctions are still the same. It says right there that it is a hard drive upgrade. There is zero confusion with those auction as to what you are buying.


I agree, auctions are very clear in what they are.

However, I also agree that DVR Dude shouldn't be complaining. What right does he have to modify TiVo software to begin with? I mean if he would have written TiVo OS, than yes, he can complain. But he takes someone else's work, modifies it, makes money and than still not happy?


----------



## EdH

johnfarmer55 said:


> Ok, I've read this entire thread and I'm still a bit confused, maybe I killed too many brain cells this weekend! Anyway, I just ordered a TiVo Premiere and I have a 1TB drive that's just laying around. If I want to put it in the TP using Comer's way I need 1TB of free space on my system? I'm running Win7 on a 1Tb Drive right now. Thanks and sorry for the dumb question.
> 
> --J55


It is a bit confusing. If you use Linux, which I did, the answer is no. You can copy the old drive to the new and then expand the new one.

But the way I read the instructions, for Windows you have to copy the old disk to a file on your system, expand the file, and then move it to the new drive.

However, even though not specified, the Linux approach might work on Windows as well.

I'm sure Comer will clarify this when he can.

Ed


----------



## lessd

fdiggy said:


> Anyone else notice DVR_DUDE auction says people are copying his drive and reselling. Appears he reads here often. Steals from members then to Ebay for resale. That is a loser! People who bought from him in last 30 days should return their drive since you can do it yourself now. File Ebay complaint and PayPal will refund you. Save yourself $130. This guy has been stealing info and tools from here for years and reselling it on Ebay. He has feedback on upgrades all the way back to 2006. He has been making a living off other peoples efforts for years. What a dirt bag. Then has a small piece of info he could share and doesnt. He was selling the hacked drives way back with killhdinitrd hack.
> Why i got on his case is when looking to buy a Premiere TiVo a month ago i kept getting his upgrade auctions. It looks like you are getting a TiVo then i would notice its a hard drive only. Just aggravated me. I did finally get a TiVo Premiere though. And the stock record space is enough for me. Side note WD 2TB drives are on sale right now $104 shipped at eWiz with coupon HELLO.
> Samsung 1.5TB $67, for that price i may go ahead and upgrade just to have the stock drive as a backup in case drive died just before the Raiders game started.


If you get what you pay for why would anybody be upset, does it matter to the buyer how he gets his stuff, you used the word stealing, from who as you can only steal from an owner, and the owner (if one exists) has to go after him. If you have a right to anything on this BB so does anybody and unless you sign an agreement not to re-sell what you get from this board I see no problem, If you think E-Bay and PayPal fees are zero guess again, and then there is the shipping/packing cost, and at least one person get a bad drive from him and he replaced for free, what if you had done all the work yourself and after 1 hour the drive went bad, you could get another drive but you would have to repeat all your work over again. Some people pay for convenience and are happy about it.
My outside faucet went bad, I drove to a store, bought a new outside faucet, spent time removing the old one and getting the new one to fit, my cost $14 + some gas and about 2.5 hours of time, if i called a plumber it would have cost me about $250 or more, my decision, if i could have spent that same time making $1500 I would have called the plumber.


----------



## EdH

dvr_dude said:


> Premiere mfstools patches posted on DDB. Only three downloads in as many days. There doesn't seem to be much interest in a do-it-yourself Premiere backup solution.


Well I used Comer's tools. I don't think these are the same as on DDB; and I don't think your count includes them (Comer's tools).

Ed


----------



## johnfarmer55

EdH said:


> It is a bit confusing. If you use Linux, which I did, the answer is no. You can copy the old drive to the new and then expand the new one.
> 
> But the way I read the instructions, for Windows you have to copy the old disk to a file on your system, expand the file, and then move it to the new drive.
> 
> However, even though not specified, the Linux approach might work on Windows as well.
> 
> I'm sure Comer will clarify this when he can.
> 
> Ed


Thanks for the clarification. I'm downloading the Ubuntu disk now. I'll to the Live CD method, but how do I add the java tools I need to it? Thanks guys...

--j55


----------



## dvr_dude

EdH said:


> Well I used Comer's tools. I don't think these are the same as on DDB; and I don't think your count includes them (Comer's tools).


Comer's tools are for expansion, not for backup. He suggests dd for backup, but that's slow and can use a lot of space. An mfstool backup is faster and smaller.


----------



## dvr_dude

KenVa said:


> dvr_dude why did you delete your first post ...


It seems it was removed by a moderator (Peter Redmer : Today at 09:01 AM). Sorry if I violated forum rules.


----------



## EdH

dvr_dude said:


> Comer's tools are for expansion, not for backup. He suggests dd for backup, but that's slow and can use a lot of space. An mfstool backup is faster and smaller.


I set up a separate Linux box and didn't use the live cd method.

I'm not sure how the live cd method works but it probably allocates some space on the Windows drive where you can store the tools you download.

Hopefully, that space doesn't get wiped when you reboot!

But as I say, I'm really not qualified to answer your question.

Ed


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> But the way I read the instructions, for Windows you have to copy the old disk to a file on your system, expand the file, and then move it to the new drive.


Correct.



> However, even though not specified, the Linux approach might work on Windows as well.


I couldn't find a way. The problem is to access the whole disk as a device from Java.


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> I set up a separate Linux box and didn't use the live cd method.
> 
> I'm not sure how the live cd method works but it probably allocates some space on the Windows drive where you can store the tools you download.
> 
> Hopefully, that space doesn't get wiped when you reboot!
> 
> But as I say, I'm really not qualified to answer your question.
> 
> Ed


It creates a ramdisk - I.e. it emulates a harddrive in memory. So it does gets wiped out on reboot, unless your live cd supports writing its state somewhere else.
Installing is just like on a harddrive - download and run


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> dvr_dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Premiere mfstools patches posted on DDB. Only three downloads in as many days. There doesn't seem to be much interest in a do-it-yourself Premiere backup solution.
Click to expand...

It's clear that patched mfstools have the same downside as jmfs - too much tinkering is required for an average user. It will change in time


----------



## johnfarmer55

So can I just add the "tool" folder along with ddrescue & ANT to the Ubuntu live cd so I can boot it from my Win7 System? Sorry about all the Q's, I'm just making sure I don't miss anything. Maybe a DVR-Dude drive isn't a bad idea for me! 

--j55


----------



## comer

johnfarmer55 said:


> So can I just add the "tool" folder along with ddrescue & ANT to the Ubuntu live cd so I can boot it from my Win7 System? Sorry about all the Q's, I'm just making sure I don't miss anything. Maybe a DVR-Dude drive isn't a bad idea for me!
> 
> --j55


In short - no  but no worries - you boot from cd first, then you install whatever necessary. ANT is *not* necessary, only JRE (Java) is. 
Live cd includes network support and a browser usually.


----------



## johnfarmer55

comer said:


> In short - no  but no worries - you boot from cd first, then you install whatever necessary. ANT is *not* necessary, only JRE (Java) is.
> Live cd includes network support and a browser usually.


Cool! Thanks for all the help. As soon as I get my TP in I'll be removing the drive before power-up and trying this out. You rock man!

--j55


----------



## jmill

I can't remember, did MFSTools expand TiVo Series 3 / TiVo HD to 145 or 156 hours on 1TB drives? Or was it done only through WinMFS?

If I recall correctly, there was a software update (version 11.x) that triggered the larger number of hours. I wonder why with MFSTools we don't get the full capacity, ie only 145 instead of 156 HD hours.

Any thoughts?


----------



## EdH

Hi,

I decided to try to compress the image of the original Premier drive jic the new, expanded drive dies.

So I created a tar.gz file. It took several hours and resulted in compression from 298.1gb (the original) to 17.1gb compressed.

Does this seem reasonable? Is it reasonable to think I could un-compress this if needed and dd it a new Tivo drive?

I'm not asking for a guarantee, that would be unrealistic. I'm just hoping for a smell test.

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## gespears

fdiggy said:


> Anyone else notice DVR_DUDE auction says people are copying his drive and reselling. Appears he reads here often. Steals from members then to Ebay for resale. That is a loser! People who bought from him in last 30 days should return their drive since you can do it yourself now. File Ebay complaint and PayPal will refund you. Save yourself $130. This guy has been stealing info and tools from here for years and reselling it on Ebay. He has feedback on upgrades all the way back to 2006. He has been making a living off other peoples efforts for years. What a dirt bag. Then has a small piece of info he could share and doesnt. He was selling the hacked drives way back with killhdinitrd hack.
> Why i got on his case is when looking to buy a Premiere TiVo a month ago i kept getting his upgrade auctions. It looks like you are getting a TiVo then i would notice its a hard drive only. Just aggravated me. I did finally get a TiVo Premiere though. And the stock record space is enough for me. Side note WD 2TB drives are on sale right now $104 shipped at eWiz with coupon HELLO.
> Samsung 1.5TB $67, for that price i may go ahead and upgrade just to have the stock drive as a backup in case drive died just before the Raiders game started.


What are you talking about? How do you know DVR-Dude used any info from this site? Or any site? Even if he did, you can't STEAL from public domain. This info is available to help make our lives easier and to help us better utilize a product or service. Even if he did use info from here, he utilized it to provide an outstanding service. He has figured out how to make a 2TB drive function correctly in the TiVo and offers it to people who want it at a price. If you want to do it yourself, by all means go ahead. But even with Comers Herculean effort, it's a time consuming and difficult task. And still doesn't provide the storage that DVD-Dude's does.

I purchased the WD drive from him at 229. His PP fee was probably around 7 bucks and his eBay fees were probably around 16 bucks. The he probably had around 20 bucks for insured shipping so after paying around 100 bucks for the drive his profit is something around 85 bucks. It probably takes him around an hour to do the work and package it and get it shipped. I am glad to pay him 85 bucks an hour to do all that for me and guarantee it as well.

You seem to have a problem with an enterprising American entrepreneur, which is what this great country is built on.

I believe sir that YOU have the problem, not DVR-Dude. This is America. If you don't like what DVR-Dude is doing, instead of whining about it on this site and making unfounded accusations, make a tool yourself that everybody can use to do this upgrade and post it on this site.

In the meantime, don't denigrate someone publicly that is providing a service I for one am very appreciative of.


----------



## bananaman

Three thumbs up for DVR_Dude here! Excellent product and service.


----------



## wp746911

Success!

I did it from 8-12 pm last night-the first hour was spent opening the tivo, loading linux, figuring out linux basics (this was my first time using linux- I used ubuntu linux booting off a usb drive. My observations

1)Its not really that hard, you just need a good head on your shoulders. If you haven't used linux it may take a bit to get adjusted. I have 'dos prompt' experience so the command line entry format was familiar, just had to master the commands
2)Comer- can you flesh our your linux instructions? All the basics are still there, but the details can be spotty, and the usage varies with different linux versions that may not have certain packages installed (have to install packages). Maybe a more step by step instruction set (with recommended linux version downloads with links) plus exact instructions on how to download any addins needed (java, ddrescue, etc). Oh and please correct step 7 (Execute "./mfsadd.bat <new drive>") to mfsadd.lh or whatever. I had read that was wrong but forgot about it, and spend 30 minutes trying to figure it out before I remembered that.
3)The total space listed was something like 1.85tb free (out of 2 tb). not sure where those other .15 tb went
4)dvrdudes products are still very good. The linux process isnt mindless, and involves a time commitment. I would argue that dvrdudes minimal markup would be worth it to most people.


----------



## johnfarmer55

wp746911 said:


> Success!.


Good Job dude! My TP will be here on Tuesday, so I expect I'll spend lots of time trying it out!



wp746911 said:


> dvrdudes products are still very good. The linux process isnt mindless, and involves a time commitment. I would argue that dvrdudes minimal markup would be worth it to most people.


Yeah, I'm still contemplating this option. I figure I have to try to do it myself since I have a 1TB drive not being used. If I'm not sharp enough to do it I'll probably order a 2TB drive from dvr-dude. It's a matter of $0 + a few hours or $200 + a few minutes.

Thanks for the feedback on the procedure, I'm sure I'll be going through that soon...


----------



## dvr_dude

EdH said:


> .... Does this seem reasonable?


Yes.


> Is it reasonable to think I could un-compress this if needed and dd it a new Tivo drive?


Yes. If you want to be sure, test it.

A straight gzip (rather than tar piped to gzip) would be better, as you could pipe directly to/from dd and avoid ever having to store the full uncompressed backup on disk. Something like "dd if=/dev/sdX | gzip > my.backup.gz" to backup and "zcat my.backup.gz | dd of=/dev/sdY" to restore.


----------



## EdH

dvr_dude said:


> Yes.Yes. If you want to be sure, test it.
> 
> A straight gzip (rather than tar piped to gzip) would be better, as you could pipe directly to/from dd and avoid ever having to store the full uncompressed backup on disk. Something like "dd if=/dev/sdX | gzip > my.backup.gz" to backup and "zcat my.backup.gz | dd of=/dev/sdY" to restore.


Thanks Dude ,

That gives me confidence.

Ed


----------



## richsadams

For anyone interested...WD20EARS 2TB GP drive for $99.99 w/free shipping...

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch_v3.asp?px=DN&scriteria=AA78023


----------



## Bai Shen

richsadams said:


> For anyone interested...WD20EARS 2TB GP drive for $99.99 w/free shipping...
> 
> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch_v3.asp?px=DN&scriteria=AA78023


That deal has been running around for a while now. I've seen both Amazon and Newegg offering it. I think WD is trying to up the 4k adoption rate.


----------



## MikeAndrews

Bai Shen said:


> That deal has been running around for a while now. I've seen both Amazon and Newegg offering it. I think WD is trying to up the 4k adoption rate.


Simpler. The EADS is the older model and they're clearing out inventories.


----------



## richsadams

netringer said:


> Simpler. The EADS is the older model and they're clearing out inventories.


The WD20EADS at newegg is $130. Did you find them for <$100 elsewhere?


----------



## NYHeel

Quick question on drives. I'm trying to compare the EARS and the EVDS. The EVDS is the A/V designed one similar to the old EVCS i have running in my TivoHDs. Right now on Amazon there is about a $30 price difference with the EARS at $110 and the EVDS around $140. Is the EVDS worth the extra $30? 

Keep in mind a few things. There's a good chance I won't change the acoustic settings on the drive if I get the EARS as I'm not sure how to do that and one of the drives (need 2) will be in a bedroom. The other thing is that the tivo in my bedroom is in a somewhat enclosed space so a cooler drive is more desirable for me. 

Sorry for my quick thread hijack


----------



## Bai Shen

netringer said:


> Simpler. The EADS is the older model and they're clearing out inventories.


The deal was for the EARS model, not the EADS.



richsadams said:


> The WD20EADS at newegg is $130. Did you find them for <$100 elsewhere?


I doubt it. I think he just misread the post.


----------



## Bai Shen

NYHeel said:


> Quick question on drives. I'm trying to compare the EARS and the EVDS. The EVDS is the A/V designed one similar to the old EVCS i have running in my TivoHDs. Right now on Amazon there is about a $30 price difference with the EARS at $110 and the EVDS around $140. Is the EVDS worth the extra $30?
> 
> Keep in mind a few things. There's a good chance I won't change the acoustic settings on the drive if I get the EARS as I'm not sure how to do that and one of the drives (need 2) will be in a bedroom. The other thing is that the tivo in my bedroom is in a somewhat enclosed space so a cooler drive is more desirable for me.
> 
> Sorry for my quick thread hijack


The big difference with the EARS is that it's the new 4k drive. Not sure how the Tivo and the upgrade stuff handles the 4k drives. That's pretty much the main reason to get the other drive.

Just be aware that all drives will be transitioning to 4k drives, so you'll have to make the change eventually.


----------



## richsadams

NYHeel said:


> Quick question on drives. I'm trying to compare the EARS and the EVDS. The EVDS is the A/V designed one similar to the old EVCS i have running in my TivoHDs. Right now on Amazon there is about a $30 price difference with the EARS at $110 and the EVDS around $140. Is the EVDS worth the extra $30?
> 
> Keep in mind a few things. There's a good chance I won't change the acoustic settings on the drive if I get the EARS as I'm not sure how to do that and one of the drives (need 2) will be in a bedroom. The other thing is that the tivo in my bedroom is in a somewhat enclosed space so a cooler drive is more desirable for me.
> 
> Sorry for my quick thread hijack


I guess my first question would be, what model TiVo do you have? This thread discusses upgrading a TiVo Premiere to a 2TB hard drive via Comer's Linux command line method. The reason I ask is that if you're hesitant to set the AAM (which is quite easy using the hddscan program BTW) I'm wondering how comfortable you would be with the work that's necessary to upgrade a Premiere...which is much more complicated than simply changing the AAM.

As you suspected the only advantage to the A/V dedicated drives like the EVDS series over the EARS or other "standard" WD GP drives is the acoustics; the dedicated A/V drives like the EVDS, EVCS, etc. already have the AAM set to 128. TiVo cannot take advantage of any of the other "features" of the A/V dedicated drives.

As mentioned, changing the AAM (Automatic Acoustic Management) on WD drives is quite easy. You just need to run hddscan before or after you upgrade the drive (won't have any affect on the drive's data).

You'd probably get away with leaving a non-A/V drive like the EARS series alone in your living room, but you'd probably want to adjust the AAM setting to the lowest (128) for your bedroom lest you hear the read/write seek sounds all night long.

You should also be aware that if you want to use a WD drive there's a strong possibility that the Intellipark settings will need to be disabled or at minimum set to a longer timeout to prevent TiVo from hanging on soft reboots (like when there is an update pushed out).

My WAG is that if you're not comfortable changing the AAM setting, you probably won't be comfortable using the program to change the Intellipark setting. And if that's the case (certainly nothing to be embarrassed about) you almost certainly won't want to tackle upgrading a TiVo Premiere at this point.

If you have something else, a TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD, then it's probably best to visit the official Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ (where upgrading those models is considerably easier at this point):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!

*EDIT*: I just took a look at your other posts and see that you do indeed have a Premiere. I guess then I'm back to your comfort level with this upgrade if you're not comfortable with adjusting the AAM setting.


----------



## richsadams

Bai Shen said:


> The big difference with the EARS is that it's the new 4k drive. Not sure how the Tivo and the upgrade stuff handles the 4k drives. That's pretty much the main reason to get the other drive.
> 
> Just be aware that all drives will be transitioning to 4k drives, so you'll have to make the change eventually.


The good news is that the newer WD drives that employ 4k sector technology have no impact on how they perform in TiVo. Many, many folks here have been using them since their introduction now with no problems. :up:


----------



## Bai Shen

richsadams said:


> The good news is that the newer WD drives that employ 4k sector technology have no impact on how they perform in TiVo. Many, many folks here have been using them since their introduction now with no problems. :up:


That's good to hear. If I do an upgrade, I'd definately go for the 2TB drive.

Anybody know what the differences between the Premiere and the Premiere XL are? Basically, what will I lose if I just get a regular Premiere and put a 2TB drive in it? I know there's the THX certification and the glo remote. But do those really make that much of a difference?

Is there anything else I'd miss out on?


----------



## richsadams

Bai Shen said:


> That's good to hear. If I do an upgrade, I'd definately go for the 2TB drive.
> 
> Anybody know what the differences between the Premiere and the Premiere XL are? Basically, what will I lose if I just get a regular Premiere and put a 2TB drive in it? I know there's the THX certification and the glo remote. But do those really make that much of a difference?
> 
> Is there anything else I'd miss out on?


Unless you're a purest it's all about cost difference IMHO. I ended up with an XL simply because TiVo had a pretty good pre-release deal and FatWallet added another chunk of change into the mix. So the difference between the two ended up being about $20 (Vs a DIY 1TB upgrade).

I don't want to start what always ends up to be a circular discussion but most of my HT equipment carries THX Certification. When it comes to TiVo Premieres I have to believe the guts are the same and TiVo opted to skip certifying the regular Premiere to keep retails down. So my bet is that there is no difference when it comes to A/V output between them.

FWIW the remote is nice but if it were me, I'd save a couple of bucks and get the basic Premiere and the new keyboard remote instead or go with a Harmony.


----------



## Bai Shen

richsadams said:


> Unless you're a purest it's all about cost difference IMHO. I ended up with an XL simply because TiVo had a pretty good pre-release deal and FatWallet added another chunk of change into the mix. So the difference between the two ended up being about $20 (Vs a DIY 1TB upgrade).


Well, I was looking at the XL, but Tivo won't let me combine the deals it's offering me and my gf. She gets 30% off a new Tivo, while I get half off Lifetime. So I'm stuck with the crappy Comcast POS DVR right now. If I can grab a regular Premier and toss a 2TB drive in it, that'd be an awesome solution.



> I don't want to start what always ends up to be a circular discussion but most of my HT equipment carries THX Certification. When it comes to TiVo Premieres I have to believe the guts are the same and TiVo opted to skip certifying the regular Premiere to keep retails down. So my bet is that there is no difference when it comes to A/V output between them.


I don't even have separate speakers atm, so I'm not too worried 'bout THX certification. And I agree, that's probably what happened.



> FWIW the remote is nice but if it were me, I'd save a couple of bucks and get the basic Premiere and the new keyboard remote instead or go with a Harmony.


Yeah, I've been debating on a Harmony as I'm starting to collect a large number of remotes.  I like the keyboard remote, but not sure I want to pay that much for it.

So that's pretty much the only differences? Seems like it's not worth it for the XL if I can upgrade the drive.


----------



## kturcotte

Wonder what would happen if you ordered or did an XL upgrade for a regular Premiere? Is it just software based? Would you get the THX stuff, or would it not work at all?


----------



## richsadams

kturcotte said:


> Wonder what would happen if you ordered or did an XL upgrade for a regular Premiere? Is it just software based? Would you get the THX stuff, or would it not work at all?


THX is a certification process, no more no less. What it means is that there are certain standards that their labs use to test equipment for audio and/or video reproduction that is faithful to the original media and reproduces it at or above those standards. Arguments break out all of the time about how much THX certification is worth, if anything. IMHO it basically guarantees that what I see and hear met their standards and that those standards are pretty high. That certainly doesn't mean that non-THX Certified equipment wouldn't meet or surpass those same standards.

More about THX Certification here:

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/

So longer answer to your question is, there's nothing special about the software in a TiVo Premiere XL Vs the TiVo Premiere, it is the same. I'd wager there isn't any difference between the two model's hardware either, but I could be wrong. Someone would need to break down every piece to determine that. At this point in my life I don't have the time or inclination.


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> THX is a certification process, no more no less. What it means is that there are certain standards that their labs use to test equipment for audio and/or video reproduction that is faithful to the original media and reproduces it at or above those standards. Arguments break out all of the time about how much THX certification is worth, if anything. IMHO it basically guarantees that what I see and hear met their standards and that those standards are pretty high. That certainly doesn't mean that non-THX Certified equipment wouldn't meet or surpass those same standards.
> 
> More about THX Certification here:
> 
> http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/
> 
> So longer answer to your question is, there's nothing special about the software in a TiVo Premiere XL Vs the TiVo Premiere, it is the same. I'd wager there isn't any difference between the two model's hardware either, but I could be wrong. Someone would need to break down every piece to determine that. At this point in my life I don't have the time or inclination.


Except for DVD or BD disks, how do you know that any other input to your system like cable HBO etc has the THX cirt. The cable system can compress the signal and do other bad things that the end user knows nothing about so it could be garbage in, faithfully produced garbage out.


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> Except for DVD or BD disks, how do you know that any other input to your system like cable HBO etc has the THX cirt. The cable system can compress the signal and do other bad things that the end user knows nothing about so it could be garbage in, faithfully produced garbage out.


Yep.


----------



## RichB

I just ordered a new TiVo Premiere and a 2TB drive.

What is the best way to do an upgrade?
Comer's procedure looks like the way to go.

It is tough to find in this thread.

Comer: It might work best if you started your own thread and reserved a few posts. This way the latest greatest information will be on the first page.

Thanks for your great work.

- Rich


----------



## steve614

Here you go Rich.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021


----------



## RichB

steve614 said:


> Here you go Rich.
> 
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021


Thanks.

Do you know why UNIX is prefered over Windows to do the upgrade?

- Rich


----------



## EdH

RichB said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Do you know why UNIX is prefered over Windows to do the upgrade?
> 
> - Rich


The only difference I'm aware of is that under Windows you must have enough free disk space for the new drive. IOW, if you plan on upgrading to a 2tb drive you need at least that much free space on your Windows system.

Under Linux, you can copy the original drive directly to the new drive and expend the new drive in place. No need to copy to the Linux system first or to expand it on the Linux system drive.

Ed


----------



## mskvarenina

RichB said:


> I just ordered a new TiVo Premiere and a 2TB drive.
> 
> What is the best way to do an upgrade?
> Comer's procedure looks like the way to go.
> 
> It is tough to find in this thread.
> 
> Comer: It might work best if you started your own thread and reserved a few posts. This way the latest greatest information will be on the first page.
> 
> Thanks for your great work.
> 
> - Rich


I was about to ask the same thing. With 491 replies to this thread finding anything is nearly impossible.

May I suggest someone create either a sticky thread or start a new one posting just the essential info.

In the meantime is there a definitrive list of what drive(s) are recommended to do an upgrade?


----------



## kturcotte

mskvarenina said:


> I was about to ask the same thing. With 491 replies to this thread finding anything is nearly impossible.
> 
> May I suggest someone create either a sticky thread or start a new one posting just the essential info.
> 
> In the meantime is there a definitrive list of what drive(s) are recommended to do an upgrade?


I agree. A nice *STEP-BY-STEP* guide on a sticky would be nice. Also would be great if it included instructions on copying from drive to drive (Skippable if you have no intention of doing that).


----------



## mskvarenina

kturcotte said:


> I agree. A nice *STEP-BY-STEP* guide on a sticky would be nice. Also would be great if it included instructions on copying from drive to drive (Skippable if you have no intention of doing that).


I've got 2 Series 3's which I upgraded just fine from this group. I was able to find drive recommendations, software to use and step by step instructions.

For the Premiere, it doesn't sound as simple. Early on I heard TiVo was not recognizing hacked drives in the Premiere units but towards the end of this thread it sounds like people have done it which is why I'm looking for help.


----------



## EdH

mskvarenina said:


> For the Premiere, it doesn't sound as simple. Early on I heard TiVo was not recognizing hacked drives in the Premiere units but towards the end of this thread it sounds like people have done it which is why I'm looking for help.


The instructions are on P. 11 this thread. It's not really that complicated. Give it a try. There are people here who will help.

I'll try to help if you have trouble and if I'm able.

Ed


----------



## steve614

EdH said:


> The instructions are on P. 11 this thread.


Not everyone formats their page view the same. There's only 10 pages in my view.

I have a link to comer's starting post here. Or just go to post #307.


----------



## wp746911

but I think we could use a few more details (and the correction that you use the mfsadd.lh instead of .bat I think)


----------



## chinacat

I'm pretty computer savvy, but I find the directions for doing the Linux upgrade hard to follow, since I have no experience in Linux. Some more details would be enormously helpful for Linux newbies. 

Also, I want to chime in and thank Comer for his hard work cracking this riddle.


----------



## NYHeel

First of all, thanks for the help here and for all the help in the series 3 upgrade thread. I actually don't have a premiere but could be getting one in the near future with expandability being a big deal.

I don't think I realized how easy it is to set the AAM setting. To be honest the hardest parts I have with these upgrades is actually booting to the CD and understanding the language being used. I generally understand this stuff conceptually but struggle with the actual commands since I don't know the language at all. As of now, from what I read I think I could make my way through from comer's posts and some of the other users' posts. But if comer's hints are accurate he may be close to creating a little more user friendly version. So we'll see.

As far as the intellipark issue, that's a pain but i think worth it to disable since WD drives have performed pretty well according to most here. Unfortunately, I only have a laptop and an old desktop with ide drives only so I'll have to go to a friends house and disable the intellipark. Is my understanding correct that you need an actual SATA compatible computer/motherboard and can't use some kind of usb connector or ide to sata adapter?

Again thanks for the help.


richsadams said:


> I guess my first question would be, what model TiVo do you have? This thread discusses upgrading a TiVo Premiere to a 2TB hard drive via Comer's Linux command line method. The reason I ask is that if you're hesitant to set the AAM (which is quite easy using the hddscan program BTW) I'm wondering how comfortable you would be with the work that's necessary to upgrade a Premiere...which is much more complicated than simply changing the AAM.
> 
> As you suspected the only advantage to the A/V dedicated drives like the EVDS series over the EARS or other "standard" WD GP drives is the acoustics; the dedicated A/V drives like the EVDS, EVCS, etc. already have the AAM set to 128. TiVo cannot take advantage of any of the other "features" of the A/V dedicated drives.
> 
> As mentioned, changing the AAM (Automatic Acoustic Management) on WD drives is quite easy. You just need to run hddscan before or after you upgrade the drive (won't have any affect on the drive's data).
> 
> You'd probably get away with leaving a non-A/V drive like the EARS series alone in your living room, but you'd probably want to adjust the AAM setting to the lowest (128) for your bedroom lest you hear the read/write seek sounds all night long.
> 
> You should also be aware that if you want to use a WD drive there's a strong possibility that the Intellipark settings will need to be disabled or at minimum set to a longer timeout to prevent TiVo from hanging on soft reboots (like when there is an update pushed out).
> 
> My WAG is that if you're not comfortable changing the AAM setting, you probably won't be comfortable using the program to change the Intellipark setting. And if that's the case (certainly nothing to be embarrassed about) you almost certainly won't want to tackle upgrading a TiVo Premiere at this point.
> 
> If you have something else, a TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD, then it's probably best to visit the official Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ (where upgrading those models is considerably easier at this point):
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160
> 
> Hope that helps and happy upgrading!
> 
> *EDIT*: I just took a look at your other posts and see that you do indeed have a Premiere. I guess then I'm back to your comfort level with this upgrade if you're not comfortable with adjusting the AAM setting.


----------



## richsadams

NYHeel said:


> As far as the intellipark issue, that's a pain but i think worth it to disable since WD drives have performed pretty well according to most here. Unfortunately, I only have a laptop and an old desktop with ide drives only so I'll have to go to a friends house and disable the intellipark. Is my understanding correct that you need an actual SATA compatible computer/motherboard and can't use some kind of usb connector or ide to sata adapter?


As they say, that's a fact Jack. The promising news is that over on the Series3 and TiVo HD/HDXL upgrade side of the business a number of folks that have used recently manufactured WD GP drives have not had to tweak Intellipark. However, since this is new territory on the Premiere side of things, I'm not sure that's that is the case yet with WD's 2TB drives. Only time will tell.

Let us know if/when you decide to move forward. I think you're right, in a short time Comer's work will probably be streamlined and a little more user friendly. But who's in a hurry?


----------



## gamo62

Anyone here have success upgrading via Windows in lieu of Linux?


----------



## lessd

gamo62 said:


> Anyone here have success upgrading via Windows in lieu of Linux?


Using what tools as WinMFS will not work.


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> Anyone here have success upgrading via Windows in lieu of Linux?


That's not an option...yet.


----------



## jdoscher

It appears the links for the bits are no longer working. Could you please post them again? Thank you!


----------



## ckazacos

I joined the 2TB club.


----------



## RichB

ckazacos said:


> I joined the 2TB club.


Congratulations!

Do you use the Unix method?

- Rich


----------



## SullyND

Linux =\= Unix


----------



## RichB

SullyND said:


> Linux =\= Unix


Yeah, I thought better of that after I posted 

- Rich


----------



## vulture99

I bought a Premiere and upgraded to a 1 TB drive using comer's method. I already had an Ubuntu box and used dd to copy directly from the source drive to the destination drive. I did the upgrade right after I took the Premiere out of the shipping box. Everything went smoothly and the Premiere launched into the guided setup ok.

FYI for anyone using Ubuntu or Debian -- if you want to use the ddrescue command you'll need to install 'gddrescue' rather than 'dd_rescue'.

Thanks comer!


----------



## gamo62

richsadams said:


> That's not an option...yet.


I'm a little confused. I know that WinMFS doesn't work. But I was talking about the following:

Under Windows:
Get Windows version of "dd" or "ddrescue"

Create an image of your old Tivo drive: copy disk using the tools above into a file <new image>

Increase the file size to match the size of your new disk. Important! It must not be bigger! It can be smaller, but you will likely underuse your new drive then. To increase the file size you can use included "extendFile" utility:
extendFile.bat +<extent size>
(! plus sign before the number is important !) where "extent size" is the number of bytes to add to the file size.
Most likely you won't be able to extend the file upto the whole new disk in one run. If you get "Isufficient system resources for operation" error or something similar, just run multiple times with smaller numbers.

Same as #5 above ("testLayout.bat <new image>") - should see old numbers

Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>"

Same as #8 above ("testLayout.bat <new image>") - should see new numbers

Copy the updated <new image> on the new drive using tools from step #1.

Has anyone used this method and been successful?


----------



## richsadams

jdoscher said:


> It appears the links for the bits are no longer working. Could you please post them again? Thank you!


Bits? If you mean the original directions, they can be found here...

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021

Note that a couple fo folks posted about one line needing to be modified, but I'm not sure which one. Perhaps someone can clarify...or have the directions been updated?


----------



## wp746911

EdH said:


> Comer,
> 
> You da man!
> 
> Everything worked perfectly. I now have 290 HD hours.
> 
> There is one minor typo in your instruction on page 11 of this thread.
> 
> In Linux instructions step 7 you say: Execute "./mfsadd.bat <new drive>"
> 
> That should be: Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>".
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ed


dunno about in windows. I followed the linux step and took me 30 minutes before I remembered the above post. At least in linux you have to run mfsadd.sh instead of mfsadd.bat- dunno about windows though.


----------



## vulture99

richsadams said:


> Bits? If you mean the original directions, they can be found here...
> 
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021
> 
> Note that a couple fo folks posted about one line needing to be modified, but I'm not sure which one. Perhaps someone can clarify...or have the directions been updated?


I think he meant that the mediafire download links weren't working. Mediafire was down for a while yesterday.


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> ... I think you're right, in a short time Comer's work will probably be streamlined and a little more user friendly. But who's in a hurry?


indeed 

I am working on putting together a live CD with a few needed tools pre-installed. The main challenge is to create a *scripted/guided* setup. I recon it's done, but I need to test it in different scenarios and on different hardware (to make sure bootabe CD is compatible with _most_ systems or at least with most systems I can lay my hands on )
Every test may take just a few hours, but rounds up to full day with all else in. Don't despair, the help is coming! ...one day 
Meanwhile, try using a generic live cd as I described, it's not that hard, really


----------



## johnfarmer55

Ok, sorry for the dumb questions but I'm having a helluva time installing java. I'm using the Ubuntu CD live. I try installing it runnind this:

_[email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin_

and I get this every time:
_
inflating: jre-6u21-linux-i586.rpm 
./jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin: 160: rpm: not found_

What am I doing wrong?


----------



## johnfarmer55

I'm a dumbass! Sorry I just realize that's for the Redhad Package Manager... D'oh!

EDIT: My real confusion seems to be getting Java in the PATH. Any hints?


----------



## rdangel

I just received my new premier unit. I have not even taken it out of the box yet, so I was wondering if Comer or anyone needed me to try the upgrade on a non-booted/virgin box. I have a 1TB WD10EADS Caviar Green drive to use, will this drive be ok? I'd rather not have to order another drive. I have a 1TB in my Series 3 which is just fine by me so I dont really need the 2TB size


----------



## KenVa

Comer any new developments on how to get the remaining space that was made available to the S3's with supersize? I just keep wondering if I'm going to have to redo my copy from the original disk when it does come out.

Thanks again for you work


----------



## johnfarmer55

So I need a C++ compiler to install ddrescue? Man, I'm going to have to learn a lot of linux before I'm done!!


----------



## vulture99

rdangel said:


> I just received my new premier unit. I have not even taken it out of the box yet, so I was wondering if Comer or anyone needed me to try the upgrade on a non-booted/virgin box. I have a 1TB WD10EADS Caviar Green drive to use, will this drive be ok? I'd rather not have to order another drive. I have a 1TB in my Series 3 which is just fine by me so I dont really need the 2TB size


I just did this with a 1TB drive on a new Premiere. See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8124486#post8124486


----------



## vulture99

johnfarmer55 said:


> So I need a C++ compiler to install ddrescue? Man, I'm going to have to learn a lot of linux before I'm done!!


What Linux distribution are you using? You should just be able to use your package manager to install ddrescue (or gddrescue), and it will automatically install any dependencies.


----------



## johnfarmer55

vulture99 said:


> What Linux distribution are you using? You should just be able to use your package manager to install ddrescue (or gddrescue), and it will automatically install any dependencies.


The latest Ubuntu... I just figured out to install the g++ package included in the CD and that did it. I installed ddrescue with it and I'm now running it. I imagine it'll be done in a few hours (fingers crossed) and hopefully I'll have my 2Tb TiVo by tonight!


----------



## comer

KenVa said:


> Comer any new developments on how to get the remaining space that was made available to the S3's with supersize? I just keep wondering if I'm going to have to redo my copy from the original disk when it does come out.
> 
> Thanks again for you work


No problem 

No, no progress. Bootable CD keeps me occupied. The second on my list is "real resize", because the thought that drives >2T will soon come out kinda bothers me. To be able to use those drives in Tivo, we will need to run a "real resize" and "jmfsadd" to expand up to 2T and then onto remaining space (2 resize/expand operations). 
So "supersize" is 3rd  I think it is not a real problem for now, because it only adds about 10% and we should be able to do it at any time later as far as I understand.


----------



## kturcotte

comer said:


> No problem
> 
> No, no progress. Bootable CD keeps me occupied. The second on my list is "real resize", because the thought that drives >2T will soon come out kinda bothers me. To be able to use those drives in Tivo, we will need to run a "real resize" and "jmfsadd" to expand up to 2T and then onto remaining space (2 resize/expand operations).
> So "supersize" is 3rd  I think it is not a real problem for now, because it only adds about 10% and we should be able to do it at any time later as far as I understand.


Can the Premiere even address a hard drive larger than 2 TB? I thought that was the limit?


----------



## comer

kturcotte said:


> Can the Premiere even address a hard drive larger than 2 TB? I thought that was the limit?


To my current knowledge - per partition (I though it was per disk too).
So expanding using 1 partition - either existing or an additional one is not an option. Also, it appears that Tivo does not like more than 1 additional partition - therefore the only solution I see is to use existing *and* a new partition, each being up to 2T. Using existing - means really resizing it.
There is, of course, an option to delete one existing media partition and then create 2 new ones - with combined size of a new drive, but that would lose all recodings on it and we don't want that, do we?


----------



## johnfarmer55

Hey Comer, How long did it take ddrescue to copy a virgin TP drive over to the 2Tb drive? Right now I'm at about 2 hrs and it still at ~315gb... is that normal? Yeah, I know... I'm impatient.


----------



## EdH

johnfarmer55 said:


> Hey Comer, How long did it take ddrescue to copy a virgin TP drive over to the 2Tb drive? Right now I'm at about 2 hrs and it still at ~315gb... is that normal? Yeah, I know... I'm impatient.


You must be nearly done. Hang in.

But something doesn't seem right. My TP drive was about 280gb and it was not quite virgin. So ~315gb seems too high.

Ed


----------



## comer

EdH said:


> You must be nearly done. Hang in.
> 
> But something doesn't seem right. My TP drive was about 280gb and it was not quite virgin. So ~315gb seems too high.
> 
> Ed


Doesn't matter virgin or not. It's the physical size - that's what matters. 320G is Tivo factory standard for non-XL Premiere, right? So it should copy 320G


----------



## johnfarmer55

Knock, Knock.

Who's there?

Woo.

Woo who?

WooHoo! I got myself a 2TB TiVo Premiere! Comer you ROCK! Thanks also to everyone else who helped answer my silly questions! Rockin!


----------



## wp746911

welcome to the 2TB club! I'm downloading series from amazon (madmen HD) and recording shows like crazy, and I'm still below 10% full 

For me the tricky things in linux were

1)figuring out how to use the command prompt (only took a few minutes- use sudo for admin priviledges, took a few times to get the directory changed with 'cd' command)

2)installing java (just google it- but some instructions didn't work)

3)installing ddrescue (also google it- first set I found worked)

4)making sure your syntax is right (one misplaced period and it won't work)

5)the typo that says to use mfsadd.bat instead of mfsadd.sh (took me 30 minutes to remember the post)

Everything else was pretty easy and straighforward


----------



## KenVa

10% full would be great. I just passed 74% full on my 2TB disk.  I think I need a bigger upgrade.


----------



## magnum68

richsadams said:


> The good news is that the newer WD drives that employ 4k sector technology have no impact on how they perform in TiVo. Many, many folks here have been using them since their introduction now with no problems. :up:


I would have to disagree. I installed a WD 1TB EARS 4k drive in my S3 and it became sluggish at times and when I would transfer shows to it it would reboot itself at least 7 times. And i tried it on two of my S3s with the same results.


----------



## johnfarmer55

KenVa said:


> 10% full would be great. I just passed 74% full on my 2TB disk.  I think I need a bigger upgrade.


Wow! Are you recording CSPAN?! I guess it's time for those 4TB upgrades!


----------



## richsadams

wp746911 said:


> 5)the typo that says to use mfsadd.bat instead of mfsadd.sh (took me 30 minutes to remember the post)


*COMER:* Could you take a minute and edit your original post to reflect the correct command? It seems like this is throwing a lot of folks off. (If as stated, that is the correct command of course). TIA!


----------



## richsadams

magnum68 said:


> I would have to disagree. I installed a WD 1TB EARS 4k drive in my S3 and it became sluggish at times and when I would transfer shows to it it would reboot itself at least 7 times. And i tried it on two of my S3s with the same results.


It's much more likely that you have a faulty hard drive (or another issue). There are literally dozens of folks (probably more) using these drives w/o any issues now. It's well documented now that the 4k issue only affects Windows based computers running older OS.


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> *COMER:* Could you take a minute and edit your original post to reflect the correct command? It seems like this is throwing a lot of folks off. (If as stated, that is the correct command of course). TIA!


I did, didn't I?


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> I did, didn't I?


Not sure...is "Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>" " correct? If so, I must have misread wp746911's post because he made it sound like mfsadd.sh was actually the correct command.  My brain hurts.


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> Not sure...is "Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>" " correct? If so, I must have misread wp746911's post because he made it sound like mfsadd.sh was actually the correct command.  My brain hurts.


It depends what OS you are using of course 



comer said:


> _Under Linux:_
> ...
> 7.	Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>"
> ...​
> _Under Windows:_
> ...
> 5.	Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>"
> ...​


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> It depends what OS you are using of course


Ah...got it. :up: That wasn't clear...at least to me.


----------



## elite-fusion

hey guys, new here, and to the whole TiVo team in general. 

Know a bit about computers, so...i have 3 TiVo's all with lifetime subscriptions,
Series 3 with 1TB, Premier, and Premier XL with 1TB, i want to upgrade all 3 to 2 TB...

If i understand correctly, for the Series 3, i can use WinMFS, correct?
Also, for my Premier and Premier XL, i have to use the instructions on Page 11, correct?

I am on Windows XP / or / 7 either/or works for me. Not too familiar with Linux at all.

According to the instructions on Page 11, I need to find DD or DDRescue for Windows. ... . I am not able to find this ANYWHERE at all! Please help me out guys. 

I'm a n00b, i tried to look through a few pages, but wayyyyy too many posts to go through. Please help me if someone can, because i have 3 2TB HD's, all of which are WD20EADS.


----------



## elite-fusion

Anyone ??


----------



## chrispitude

comer said:


> I am working on putting together a live CD with a few needed tools pre-installed. The main challenge is to create a *scripted/guided* setup. I recon it's done, but I need to test it in different scenarios and on different hardware (to make sure bootabe CD is compatible with _most_ systems or at least with most systems I can lay my hands on )


My wife just instructed me to upgrade our Premiere to have more storage, so this would be very timely!


----------



## comer

elite-fusion said:


> hey guys, new here, and to the whole TiVo team in general.


Welcome! :up:



> Also, for my Premier and Premier XL, i have to use the instructions on Page 11, correct?


The link to instructions is in my signature. Please keep in mind that it was not tested on XL, although most likely it will work.



> I am on Windows XP / or / 7 either/or works for me. Not too familiar with Linux at all.


I really suggest using Linux for upgrade. It's easy and less time and space consuming than under Windows.



> According to the instructions on Page 11, I need to find DD or DDRescue for Windows. ... . I am not able to find this ANYWHERE at all! Please help me out guys.


dd for Windows


----------



## vulture99

elite-fusion said:


> According to the instructions on Page 11, I need to find DD or DDRescue for Windows. ... . I am not able to find this ANYWHERE at all! Please help me out guys.


I typed "dd for windows" in google and came up with a bunch of results. Here's the first one: http://www.chrysocome.net/dd


----------



## elite-fusion

Thanks guys, as for the DD for Windows, i searched also, first link was that site, didnt see a download section for it :-/ sorry about that, probably over looked it.

As for the link in the signature, unfortunately since im new, i dont have 10 posts, therefore i cant see the link :-/


----------



## comer

elite-fusion said:


> Thanks guys, as for the DD for Windows, i searched also, first link was that site, didnt see a download section for it :-/ sorry about that, probably over looked it.
> 
> As for the link in the signature, unfortunately since im new, i dont have 10 posts, therefore i cant see the link :-/


http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021

or post #307 in this thread.


----------



## orangeboy

comer said:


> ...I really suggest using Linux for upgrade. It's easy and less time and space consuming than under Windows...


Hmm... I just installed ubuntu (desktop) as a virtual machine in VMware running on a Windows Server 2003 box. Probably not a good idea to try and do this in such a configuration?


----------



## RichB

orangeboy said:


> Hmm... I just installed ubuntu (desktop) as a virtual machine in VMware running on a Windows Server 2003 box. Probably not a good idea to try and do this in such a configuration?


What a great question!

I doubt it but it would be nifty.

- Rich


----------



## comer

RichB said:


> What a great question!
> 
> I doubt it but it would be nifty.
> 
> - Rich


I don't see why it wouldn't. You would need to add disk resources to your VM of course.
Easy - try it  You can start with layout display - see if it works.


----------



## RichB

comer said:


> I don't see why it wouldn't. You would need to add disk resources to your VM of course.
> Easy - try it  You can start with layout display - see if it works.


OK. I am willing to give it a go.

- Rich


----------



## ckazacos

RichB said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> Do you use the Unix method?
> 
> - Rich


Yes! I have Unix/Linux experience so it wasn't difficult. The most difficult part was trying to get an older computer to boot Live CD from USB. I resorted to using my newer computer and things went smoothly.


----------



## orangeboy

comer said:


> I don't see why it wouldn't. You would need to add disk resources to your VM of course.
> Easy - try it  You can start with layout display - see if it works.


Wasn't there some issues with Windows mucking around with the boot sector of the original TiVo drive when you connect and power up the Windows OS? Well, I guess since there's a Windows version, that must/may not be the case!


----------



## jmiller50

Another 2T upgrade success story here. I just upgraded last night. I use Linux 99% of the time, so for me, the hardest part was finding someone I could borrow 2 SATA cables from. For those trying to gauge how long it will take, the actually disk copy took about 3.5 hrs on my computer. 

Kudos to corner for putting in the work to get this resolved.


----------



## elite-fusion

Hey again guys...sorry to bug you but not able to do this for some reason

This is what i have:

. Laptop with Win XP SP3
. I can get a bootable CD version of linux
. 3 TiVo's (S3 HD, Premiere, and Premiere XL)
. a ton of Sata cables (if needed)
. an eSata cable (if needed)

I took out the hard drive from my S3 for example (its currently 1TB and want to upgrade to 2TB)
So I now have a bare 1TB and a bare 2TB (what I would want to do I'm assuming is Copy and Expand)

I DO NOT HAVE ANY RECORDINGS ON THE 1TB DRIVE, SO I DO NOT CARE ABOUT LOOSING ANYTHING (THS SHOULD MAKE IT MUCH FASTER)

So instead of having 1TB in my S3, I want to have a 2TB.

How would i go about doing this in linux???? I HAVE NO CLUE HOW TO USE LINUX 

I know this is PREMIERE forum, but same case goes for my Premiere and Premiere XL. I figured I'd try on the S3 first...or if you guys suggest I can pull the Premiere hard drive out and work with that.

Sorry for so many questions, i just like to include as much info as i can so someone can help me.

PS. LOVING THE TIVO's....THEY ARE AMAZING!


----------



## b13

I am confused, do I run *◦"ddrescue -r 3 <old tivo drive or image file name> <new drive>"* or do I run *◦"dd if=<old tivo drive or image file name> of=<new drive>"*

I ran the 1st command and it finised in 2-3 hours like you said. However then I ran second command and 6hours later the HDD's are still doing something.

**************************************
This is your current disk capacity.

6.Copy old tivo disk or image file onto new one using either:
◦"ddrescue -r 3 <old tivo drive or image file name> <new drive>"
I recommend this tool if available in your system, because it gives nice progress output, so you can be sure it didn't hang and how long to wait.

◦"dd if=<old tivo drive or image file name> of=<new drive>"
It is possible to see progress of this tool as well, but not interactively. For more info see "man dd" or look it up on internet.
Wait for 2-3 hours until complete. Make sure it completes without errors.
7.Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>"

8.[optional, but very advisable] run "./testLayout.sh <new drive>".
Make note of the last few lines and verify that capacity increased.


----------



## wp746911

oopsie- gotta read the instructions very carefully when using command prompt:

Copy old tivo disk or image file onto new one using *either*:
"ddrescue -r 3 <old tivo drive or image file name> <new drive>"
I recommend this tool if available in your system, because it gives nice progress output, so you can be sure it didn't hang and how long to wait.

"dd if=<old tivo drive or image file name> of=<new drive>"
It is possible to see progress of this tool as well, but not interactively. For more info see "man dd" or look it up on internet.
Wait for 2-3 hours until complete. Make sure it completes without errors.

It says to either- you were done after the first ddrescue (took about 3 hours on my computer too)- dd if does the same thing but doesn't look as nice-and you should only run one or the other.


----------



## Jonathan_S

orangeboy said:


> Wasn't there some issues with Windows mucking around with the boot sector of the original TiVo drive when you connect and power up the Windows OS? Well, I guess since there's a Windows version, that must/may not be the case!


IIRC it was basically an older version(s?) of windows that did it. (I want to say Windows 2000, but that might be wrong).

Newer versions of windows play nice and don't automatically touch all drives. You'd have to go into the drive manager and specifically ask it to initialize the drive to break it like the old version of windows did automatically.

I know WinXP SP2 is safe (I've used WinMFS in XP to copy / expand TiVo drives without an problems) and Vista or Win7 should be good as well.


----------



## richsadams

Jonathan_S said:


> IIRC it was basically an older version(s?) of windows that did it. (I want to say Windows 2000, but that might be wrong).
> 
> Newer versions of windows play nice and don't automatically touch all drives. You'd have to go into the drive manager and specifically ask it to initialize the drive to break it like the old version of windows did automatically.
> 
> I know WinXP is safe (I've used WinMFS in XP to copy / expand TiVo drives without an problems) and Vista or Win7 should be good as well.


Exactly. Win XP (original release), NT 4, Windows 2000 sp4 or earlier, ME or earlier were the culprits. Windows ME?  ((shudder)).


----------



## orangeboy

Jonathan_S said:


> IIRC it was basically an older version(s?) of windows that did it. (I want to say Windows 2000, but that might be wrong).
> 
> Newer versions of windows play nice and don't automatically touch all drives. You'd have to go into the drive manager and specifically ask it to initialize the drive to break it like the old version of windows did automatically.
> 
> I know WinXP SP2 is safe (I've used WinMFS in XP to copy / expand TiVo drives without an problems) and Vista or Win7 should be good as well.





richsadams said:


> Exactly. Win XP (original release), NT 4, Windows 2000 sp4 or earlier, ME or earlier were the culprits. Windows ME?  ((shudder)).


Great! That does ease my mind when the time comes to upgrade the Premiere. :up:


----------



## b13

Status update:Ran 1st Command then ran Second Command. I thought I would break it<---

Well....It didn't! Tivo booted everything seems ok (except) when I change to menus like from Video to Network etc. When it switches I see a gray sceeen then it takes me to menu.

I went from 320gig to 1-terabyte. *Does it support 2 terabyte?* I used Ubuntu x64-bit and booted off of live CD. I am in I.t. and I haven't used linux for a while (started to recently) so it wasn't that hard. The only thing was instructions at the end confused me.


----------



## johnfarmer55

I like seeing the list of upgraded Premieres grow! 

--j55


----------



## comer

b13 said:


> I went from 320gig to 1-terabyte.


Congrats! :up:



> Does it support 2 terabyte?


Yes.



> The only thing was instructions at the end confused me.


For the benefit of future users, could you be more specific, please?


----------



## steve614

Why do I have this feeling that Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and DVRDude sales for the Premiere upgrade drives are about to plummet?


----------



## comer

steve614 said:


> Why do I have this feeling that Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and DVRDude sales for the Premiere upgrade drives are about to plummet?


Should I be worried?


----------



## richsadams

Newegg.com has the 2TB Western Digital GP WD20EARS for $119.99. Coupon code "HARDOCP98B" takes it down to $99.99 w/free shipping.

http://bit.ly/cbDU6G


----------



## wp746911

hmm i wondered if I spent too much- I got a WD AV-GP 2tb- i cost me mabye $30 more but I felt good that it was designated for pvr use- was that a good move or are these other drives just as good?


----------



## RichB

I have a Premiere XL in my Living room.
Can you move disks from one TiVo to the other. The case is a little ill-fitting on the new Premiere. So I was wondering if I can:

Upgrade the new TiVo XL to a 2TB drive and then move the 1TB drive to my other Premiere.

Are drives locked to the units?

- Rich


----------



## steve614

From what I have read, you can only swap drives between Tivos of the same model, e.g., TivoHD -> TivoHD, Premiere XL -> Premiere XL, and you have to do a Clear & Delete everything in order for it to work properly.
A drive from a TivoHD XL will not work in a Premiere XL.


----------



## richsadams

wp746911 said:


> hmm i wondered if I spent too much- I got a WD AV-GP 2tb- i cost me mabye $30 more but I felt good that it was designated for pvr use- was that a good move or are these other drives just as good?


Certainly no harm done...except a little bit to your wallet.

WD A/V dedicated hard drives have several features not found in their standard cousins, one being that the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) is tuned to it's lowest level (128). That reduces the seek noise of the heads. Unfortunately TiVo by design isn't able to take advantage of the other A/V features of those drives. BTW, that doesn't seem to have made any difference in performance so it may be that SA and other DVR's don't have some of the "performance advantages" that TiVo has and relies on HDD firmware to compensate.

In any case, the non-A/V WD GP hard drives (the EARS series for example) have proven to work quite well based on numerous posts here and elsewhere. One just needs to adjust the AAM from the stock level to 128 to make them quieter...although they are very quiet out of the box.

There are mixed reports about the more recently manufactured WD GP drives requiring the Intellipark feature to be extended or disabled to address the soft reboot hang however. If you are so inclined it would be helpful if when you upgrade to skip that step and try a soft reboot after installing your new drive and report back your findings. If you can please include the drive's manufacture date. A number of folks are reporting that drives manufactured sometime in August 2010 and forward haven't required tweaking Intellipark while others have had to do it so there's still no definitive answer. More data points will be very valuable.

Hope that helped. I guess the short answer is that you've saved yourself a little time. Time is money they say.


----------



## richsadams

RichB said:


> I have a Premiere XL in my Living room.
> Can you move disks from one TiVo to the other. The case is a little ill-fitting on the new Premiere. So I was wondering if I can:
> 
> Upgrade the new TiVo XL to a 2TB drive and then move the 1TB drive to my other Premiere.
> 
> Are drives locked to the units?
> 
> - Rich


Basically what Steve614 said, but I'm a little confused. Do you have a TiVo Premiere XL and your new TiVo is also a Premiere XL model or is it a standard TiVo Premiere? Or do you have a different combination such as a Premiere XL and a TiVo HDXL?

In any case, as Steve said, swapping drives is always like-for-like. Although I'm not sure if anyone has posted about trying to swap drives in the same series, but different builds...such as swapping a drive from a TiVo Premiere XL into a standard TiVo Premiere (or vice versa). It might work, but until someone tries it we can't be sure. I can think why it would (the OS matches) as well as why it wouldn't (possible hardware differences the OS may have to deal with).

One of the keys that Steve mentioned is that a full Clear and Delete Everything is required. That wipes all of the box's "personal" information including recordings, Season Passes, channel info, guide data, cable card pairing and so on. You basically end up with a "new" TiVo. Swapping hard drives is usually a last resort kind of thing.

All of that said, if you currently have a Premiere XL and you want to swap drives with another Premiere XL, yes that will work, but again, you'd need to run C&DE. If that fits your plans you should be good to go.

Curious...what do you mean when you say the case is a little "ill fitting"? 

Anyway, hope that helps!


----------



## mkkelly75

Hi All, Just wanted to report that I did the upgrade to a 1TB drive this morning. Had a little trouble installing Java to begin with but then I went to the Ubuntu software utility and installed the Java JRE runtime through that and it worked great. 

My question now is, should I keep recording until I am past the 20 hours of original HD video capacity to ensure everything is cool?


----------



## mkkelly75

Of course reading back through the thread I realized I forgot about the Intellipark issue.  Rebooting now to see if it hangs or not. Guess I am pulling the drive again if it does...


----------



## richsadams

mkkelly75 said:


> Of course reading back through the thread I realized I forgot about the Intellipark issue.  Rebooting now to see if it hangs or not. Guess I am pulling the drive again if it does...


Congrats and can you let us know one way or the other about the soft reboot...and the manufacture date of your hard drive? TIA!

With respect to the recordings (20 hours plus) AFAIK a number of folks here have far surpassed that after an upgrade without any problems.


----------



## RichB

richsadams said:


> Basically what Steve614 said, but I'm a little confused. Do you have a TiVo Premiere XL and your new TiVo is also a Premiere XL model or is it a standard TiVo Premiere? Or do you have a different combination such as a Premiere XL and a TiVo HDXL?


Both are Premieres one is an XL the other standard.


> In any case, as Steve said, swapping drives is always like-for-like. Although I'm not sure if anyone has posted about trying to swap drives in the same series, but different builds...such as swapping a drive from a TiVo Premiere XL into a standard TiVo Premiere (or vice versa). It might work, but until someone tries it we can't be sure. I can think why it would (the OS matches) as well as why it wouldn't (possible hardware differences the OS may have to deal with).
> 
> One of the keys that Steve mentioned is that a full Clear and Delete Everything is required. That wipes all of the box's "personal" information including recordings, Season Passes, channel info, guide data, cable card pairing and so on. You basically end up with a "new" TiVo. Swapping hard drives is usually a last resort kind of thing.


I guess I will stay put then.



> Curious...what do you mean when you say the case is a little "ill fitting"?


The top panel sticks up a bit. I can probably fix it when I swap out the drive.


> Anyway, hope that helps!


Yes. Thanks,

Rich


----------



## richsadams

RichB said:


> Both are Premieres one is an XL the other standard.
> 
> I guess I will stay put then.
> 
> The top panel sticks up a bit. I can probably fix it when I swap out the drive.


Ah, got it then. Thanks!


----------



## mkkelly75

richsadams said:


> Congrats and can you let us know one way or the other about the soft reboot...and the manufacture date of your hard drive? TIA!
> 
> With respect to the recordings (20 hours plus) AFAIK a number of folks here have far surpassed that after an upgrade without any problems.


I did the soft reboot with no issues. Of course since I forgot about the Intellipark issue I never thought to look at the manufacture date. It is a WD10EARS though. I will yank it back out soon and check (unless it says it on the box somewhere?).


----------



## richsadams

mkkelly75 said:


> I did the soft reboot with no issues. Of course since I forgot about the Intellipark issue I never thought to look at the manufacture date. It is a WD10EARS though. I will yank it back out soon and check (unless it says it on the box somewhere?).


Understood. AFAIK the manufacture date isn't on the box anywhere, only on the drive itself. Was this a retail box drive (included mounting kit, etc.) or a bare OEM drive? I take it you bought it recently...can you let us know the retailer? TIA for posting the manufacture info at some point.

Thanks for your patience with all of the questions...the more data points we can get the better it will be to recommend drives and help those that follow.

Now enjoy!


----------



## mkkelly75

richsadams said:


> Understood. AFAIK the manufacture date isn't on the box anywhere, only on the drive itself. I take it you bought the drive recently...can you let us know the retailer?
> 
> TIA for posting the manufacture info at some point.
> 
> Now enjoy!


I bought it at Best Buy, it was a little bit more expensive than online, but I had a gift card and the whole instant gratification thing got the better of me


----------



## richsadams

mkkelly75 said:


> I bought it at Best Buy, it was a little bit more expensive than online, but I had a gift card and the whole instant gratification thing got the better of me


Thanks...that answers my other question about a retail box Vs OEM drive. Good to know. :up:


----------



## mkkelly75

richsadams said:


> Thanks...that answers my other question about a retail box Vs OEM drive. Good to know. :up:


My mistake it was a EADS drive and the manufacture date is 20 September 2009. If I had remembered the Intellipark issue before I would have disabled it to begin with, but I have had one soft reboot with no issues, so hopefully I am good to go.:up:


----------



## richsadams

mkkelly75 said:


> My mistake it was a EADS drive and the manufacture date is 20 September 2009. If I had remembered the Intellipark issue before I would have disabled it to begin with, but I have had one soft reboot with no issues, so hopefully I am good to go.:up:


Still good information...thanks!

If you conducted a menu reboot once it s/b fine going forward, but there's no harm in trying it again if you get bored.


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> WD A/V dedicated hard drives have several features not found in their standard cousins, one being that the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) is tuned to it's lowest level (128). That reduces the seek noise of the heads. Unfortunately TiVo by design isn't able to take advantage of the other A/V features of those drives.


The most important feature is that AV drives designed/certified to work in always-on 24x7 mode. Other drives are not.
And Tivo *is* an always-on environment


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> The most important feature is that AV drives designed/certified to work in always-on 24x7 mode. Other drives are not.
> And Tivo *is* an always-on environment


That concept has been discussed here and elsewhere and has some merit. However the difference in drives isn't so much about the time the drive is active but the data throughput/workload demand, error recovery and such.

Enterprise class hard drives are the workhorses when it comes to 24/7 operations. They have additional sensors (vibration, fly height adjustment, etc.). There are some firmware differences including recovery timing settings (TLER in WD drives for example). The combination of these differences results in higher reliability, which makes a difference in the specifications. For WD the Unrecoverable Bit Error (UBE) is the same for both consumer and enterprise models. So if it were all about 24/7 heavy duty operations, an enterprise class hard drive would be the ideal for TiVo, which of course would be stupendous overkill (not to mention replicating the sound of a thrashing machine ).

Although it's true that TiVo is reading/writing data 24/7, in a TiVo environment as opposed to a true enterprise/server high performance environment, the workload TiVo (or any other DVR for that matter) handles is light to very light by comparison even when taking into consideration the possibility of processing/recording two HD signals, playback, broadband downloading, etc. all occurring at the same time. That said, a true enterprise drive would think it was on holiday if it were slipped into a TiVo.  Having owned and maintained servers I would have never considered using an A/V dedicated hard drive in one, they just aren't cut out for that sort of duty. So it's a bit apples and oranges when it comes down to what drives can and can't do and what makes one better than another.

TiVo OEM drives have never been enterprise class (5900 RPM with a miniscule 2MB cache). They are however A/V dedicated hard drives. For example the TiVo HD's OEM drive is the WD1600AVBS, and the TiVo HDXL sports a WD10EVVS hard drive.

Also as mentioned, Western Digital's A/V dedicated hard drives have a number of proprietary features including "Silkstream", "Intelliseek", "Intellipark" and "Preemptive Wear Leveling" (PWL) all of which for one reason or another TiVo cannot take advantage. These added "features" contribute to the cost of the drives but not to any actual performance enhancements in TiVo.

"Certified" is generally a marketing term with no actual measurable standard. None of the TiVo OEM hard drives are "certified" for anything by their manufacturer Western Digital.

Going with an A/V dedicated hard drive can certainly do no harm and as mentioned can save some time when it comes to AAM adjustments. With respect to one being "better" than another, the proof is in the performance and to some extent longevity. Based on years of posts here and elsewhere both types of drives perform identically in a TiVo application and mean time to failure (MTTF) rates are just about identical as well. YMMV of course.


----------



## wp746911

I bought a 2TB OEM (just came in a plastic static bag) harddrive WD20EVDS from frys in arlington, tx. I did not check the manufactor date, but will try to (it's already installed). I did not adjust intellipark and I have rebooted it successfully without any hangups.

Also, while I'm not sure if the premium I paid for the av drive is worth it (I'm just guessing there reallky isn't much difference), the original tivo internal drive is an av-gp wd 320gb drive...so I replaced it with a drive in the same family, makes me feel good- it seems there is a ~$30 premium I paid to feel good...


----------



## wluk

johnfarmer55 said:


> Ok, sorry for the dumb questions but I'm having a helluva time installing java. I'm using the Ubuntu CD live. I try installing it runnind this:
> 
> _[email protected]:~/Downloads$ sudo ./jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin_
> 
> and I get this every time:
> _
> inflating: jre-6u21-linux-i586.rpm
> ./jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin: 160: rpm: not found_
> 
> What am I doing wrong?


I had the same problem. Try downloading the bin instead of the rpm.bin file from Java. It should take care of the problem.


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> "Certified" is generally a marketing term with no actual measurable standard. None of the TiVo OEM hard drives are "certified" for anything by their manufacturer Western Digital.


Marketing - true. Does not mean anything - not true  If words "designed for 24x7" do not mean anything, then why not stick them on all models and get ahead of the other guy who didn't? Out of two, average consumer would go for something that looks more reliable, right?
Even if Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) is the same (sidenote: MTBF *is* higher for enterprise-level HDs, which is written ih huge bold letters right on the first page about the product - when they can they *do* ) it means that manufacturer will not deal with large volumes of returns of the drives used in 24x7 environment where manufacturer knew they would not last. It's money. So they *do* advertize drives for 24x7 which *can* perform, and *do not* advertize drives that *can not* perform. Even though they do not give technical details why they think so - it does not mean there are not any reasons for that.
In microchip world it may be equivalent to sorting out the same batch of chips, made from the same waffer, by the speed at which they can perform reliably. They are identical otherwise! But some make it to 1.3Ghz (just as an example) others only upto 1.0Ghz.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Find a study that shows the average MTBF is better on A/V drives than regular consumer drives, and I will agree with you (an actual use case study, not manufacturer claims). Otherwise, it doesn't mean anything in a Tivo which is the point Rich is making. I too do not believe that you will get longer service from an A/V drive, it's all a matter of luck with drives nowadays. Get one from a bad run or bad firmware and it won't matter if it's A/V certified or not, it's going to fail sooner than it should. 

Or maybe it's just cosmic rays, who knows.


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> Marketing - true. Does not mean anything - not true  If words "designed for 24x7" do not mean anything, then why not stick them on all models and get ahead of the other guy who didn't? Out of two, average consumer would go for something that looks more reliable, right?
> Even if Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) is the same (sidenote: MTBF *is* higher for enterprise-level HDs, which is written ih huge bold letters right on the first page about the product - when they can they *do* ) it means that manufacturer will not deal with large volumes of returns of the drives used in 24x7 environment where manufacturer knew they would not last. It's money. So they *do* advertize drives for 24x7 which *can* perform, and *do not* advertize drives that *can not* perform. Even though they do not give technical details why they think so - it does not mean there are not any reasons for that.
> In microchip world it may be equivalent to sorting out the same batch of chips, made from the same waffer, by the speed at which they can perform reliably. They are identical otherwise! But some make it to 1.3Ghz (just as an example) others only upto 1.0Ghz.


24/7, yes...I was saying that "_certified_" is a marketing term which has no measurable standard. With respect as to why wouldn't manufacturers claim all hard drives are suitable for 24/7 use, one could cynically argue that it would remove their ability to generate a higher margin for a like product...similar to charging more for a blue car than a white one. But I'm not quite _that_ cynical. . I do know that enterprise class drives are actually built differently. I also know that dedicated A/V drives are also built slightly differently...however as mentioned, TiVo cannot (or perhaps doesn't need to) take advantage of the additional features.

MTBF is in fact higher for enterprise class drives but we need to keep in mind the A/V dedicated drives we're talking about are _not_ enterprise class.

Anyway, I think we agree that a good A/V dedicated drive is a good investment. From personal experience (I'm using both) and several years of posts on the TCF and other forums, there doesn't seem to be any empirical or really even compelling evidence that they perform any better or worse or last any longer than the recommended "standard" hard drive options.

That said, the more positive posts I read about 2TB upgrades here...the more difficult it is not to jump on the bandwagon! Thanks very much for your continued hard work on this...you have a lot of happy "customers" (of which I will likely be another pretty soon).


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> Anyway, I think we agree that a good A/V dedicated drive is a good investment. From personal experience (I'm using both) and several years of posts on the TCF and other forums, there doesn't seem to be any empirical or really even compelling evidence that they perform any better or worse or last any longer than the recommended "standard" hard drive options.


Of course 
I am a bit bitter because of multiple drive failures I have experienced for the past year. It included WD Caviar Greens. I mentioned it in other posts. However, I replaced it with WD AV-GP drive and it has been fine so far (few months).



> That said, the more positive posts I read about 2TB upgrades here...the more difficult it is not to jump on the bandwagon! Thanks very much for your continued hard work on this...you have a lot of happy "customers" (of which I will likely be another pretty soon).


No problem  As Socrates said in "Peaceful Warrior": "There's no greater purpose than service to others."


----------



## aaronwt

comer said:


> Marketing - true. Does not mean anything - not true  If words "designed for 24x7" do not mean anything, then why not stick them on all models and get ahead of the other guy who didn't? Out of two, average consumer would go for something that looks more reliable, right?
> Even if Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) is the same (sidenote: MTBF *is* higher for enterprise-level HDs, which is written ih huge bold letters right on the first page about the product - when they can they *do* ) it means that manufacturer will not deal with large volumes of returns of the drives used in 24x7 environment where manufacturer knew they would not last. It's money. So they *do* advertize drives for 24x7 which *can* perform, and *do not* advertize drives that *can not* perform. Even though they do not give technical details why they think so - it does not mean there are not any reasons for that.
> In microchip world it may be equivalent to sorting out the same batch of chips, made from the same waffer, by the speed at which they can perform reliably. They are identical otherwise! But some make it to 1.3Ghz (just as an example) others only upto 1.0Ghz.


I've been using non Enterprise Drives in TiVos(over two dozen) for almost nine years. I've yet to have an issue with any of them. Even the drives from my philips DirecTv TiVos from the early 2000's are still going strong. I put in 80GB ide drives and my girlfriends neice is using those boxes today with no issues.
And the next gen Philips DirecTV TiVos I put even larger drives in. I gave them to my a friend and he is still using the three of them. They have been running 24/7 for around six years.


----------



## RichB

The only TiVo drive failure I had was during a power outage that have about 3 power cycles in about 10 seconds. That killed it. I know it was not a AV drive.

I now have a UPS on my main TiVo.

- Rich


----------



## donnoh

My take on upgrading drives.
People that do it don't keep them long enough to know if or when they die. Maybe some do, but if you're an upgrade geek like me as soon as the next upgrade size comes along you go for it.
Personally the only drives I've seen fail in 24/7 operation were 6-7 years old and I'm talking about PC's that are in an industrial environment.
I think that the quality of drives available today will last as long as the technology does for 95% of users.


----------



## simon7

Great discussion on hard drives. Thanks guys, and keep the opinions coming.


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> I've been using non Enterprise Drives in TiVos(over two dozen) for almost nine years. I've yet to have an issue with any of them. Even the drives from my philips DirecTv TiVos from the early 2000's are still going strong. I put in 80GB ide drives and my girlfriends neice is using those boxes today with no issues.
> And the next gen Philips DirecTV TiVos I put even larger drives in. I gave them to my a friend and he is still using the three of them. They have been running 24/7 for around six years.


You are one generous kind of guy!


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> Also as mentioned, Western Digital's A/V dedicated hard drives have a number of proprietary features including "Silkstream", "Intelliseek", "Intellipark" and "Preemptive Wear Leveling" (PWL) all of which for one reason or another TiVo cannot take advantage. These added "features" contribute to the cost of the drives but not to any actual performance enhancements in TiVo.


I've been wanting to say something regarding how some people keep stating that none of these AV feature sets can be utilized by the TiVo (or in this case stating that they can't/won't enhance performance).

I disagree, but only in a matter of degrees:

Some feature sets are embedded and operate entirely within the drive. "S.M.A.R.T." is a good basic example. But, if said feature set is also supported by the host, you can get more from the feature (read the SMART data that is stored on the drive, for example). While not the best example, it's one everybody knows of (pretty much). You can also take a SMART capable drive that has been running in a host that doesn't support SMART, move it to one that does, and the SMART data will all be there to read. Now, on the flip side of the coin, there are feature sets that are useless without host support (such as SilkStream, which some day may be advanced enough that the drive itself can detect the type of data and automatically utilize the appropriate feature set, but until/unless that happens, useless).

Here's some further thoughts, as well as a few quotes from Western Digital's website and spec sheets:

The current WD20EADS (GP, non-AV) drive specifications include:
"Intelliseek - Calculates optimum seek speeds to lower power consumption, noise, and vibration." - from WD web site.

Intelliseek seems to be doing it's job very well with the WD20EADS drives in my four TiVo HDs. (I believe it is also a firmware controlled feature that does not require the host to support it to utilize it.) I have found that my TiVos get laggy when doing things such as reorganizing SPs and other drive-intensive operations if I enable AAM at all, while not making any discernible difference in audible seeking noise. I also tested this by using Hitachi Feature Tool, which allows real-time adjustment of AAM with a slider and allows you to listen as the software makes the drive perform full/random seek operations. My WD20EADS drives (bare OEM from Fry's) came with AAM disabled. I believe they were manufactured in Q3, 2010.

One feature that is not listed for GP-only (but is listed for WD20EVDS AV-GP):
"IntelliPark - Delivers lower power consumption by automatically unloading the heads during idle to reduce aerodynamic drag." - this feature is only listed on the spec sheets for the AV-GP, yet if it isn't in the GP-only feature set, why would WDIDLE3 be needed for non-AV models? So, it must be there and function at some capacity, but the TiVos apparently lack a proper command to un-park the heads, thus WD must have began including that into the firmware, making it another fully firmware controlled feature, like IntelliSeek, in the newer (more recently manufactured) drives. It actually seems like there is nearly no need for this feature in an AV-GP drive, yet it has potential for use in GP-only drives, where it isn't listed as a feature. <scratching head on this one>

This is a feature listed for WD20EADS (GP, non-AV):
"NoTouch ramp load technology - The recording head never touches the disk media ensuring better drive protection in transit as well as significantly less wear to the recording head and media." -If a TiVo being rebooted from the menu, (hypothetically), sends a "Shut-Down" or "Standby" command to the drive, but something in the newer drives' firmware changed and the "Resume" command isn't properly recognized by the drive firmware, this could explain things with the "soft-reboot issue". Perhaps WDIDLE3 is really adjusting this, when used on GP-only drives. Note that this is not the same as IntelliPark, which could be something that the FAQ could include in the future to avoid confusion (hint-hint, wink).

Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL) AV-GP models only:
"The drive arm frequently sweeps across the disk to reduce uneven wear on the drive surface common to audio video streaming applications." This is a drive firmware controlled feature. It does not matter what the drive is connected to. (Yet, I fail to understand what this could achieve, since WD brags about how "The recording head never touches the disk media..." in both the AV-GP and the GP-only models. How does a head, riding on air, that never touches the platter, cause uneven platter wear?)

"StableTrac - The motor shaft is secured at both ends to reduce system-induced vibration and stabilize platters for accurate tracking, during read and write operations. (2 TB models only)" - This isn't listed as a feature on the AV-GP 2TB model, but it is on the GP-only 2TB.

It seems to me that the GP-only drives may actually have a few features that don't rely on the host they are installed in to be functional, which actually make them better than the AV-GP drives (for TiVo use). One thing that is true, and will certainly be beaten like a dead horse, is that non-AV drives don't have a 24x7 rating. I'm not concerned about it. I care more about "features" and which ones actually are of benefit to me when the host is my TiVo. I've been running hard drives in computers 24x7 for over 10 years, and it's always been the ones that weren't being run 24x7 that died early deaths.

Yes, I just now realized that this post is a bit off-official-topic. Maybe I'll move it, or just delete it, after a few days... Nothing said here is really different for the Premiere, though, AFAIK...


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> I've been wanting to say something regarding how some people keep stating that none of these AV feature sets can be utilized by the TiVo (or in this case stating that they can't/won't enhance performance). <snip>


Thanks for that and although we've certainly strayed a bit OT, I think these discussions are, if not a little self indulgent, beneficial for a number of reasons.

I still stand by my and other's supposition that most of the various features in A/V drives either do not enhance TiVo's performance or are not used at all, but your points are well taken.

Over the years a general rule of thumb has been that it is better to leave a hard drive running 24/7, at least with respect to longevity. Many experts have said that the repeated power surges required to spin up a drive, un-park heads and so on will contribute to a shorter lifespan. So that may explain a little about why A/V drives are touted to be "better" (in a sense) than others.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to share. I think we agree on things for the most part and we can certainly agree to disagree on some of the finer points.

Bottom line is that we all want our TiVo's to perform as best as they can for as long as possible and it's conversations like this that can make a difference for those that follow. :up:


----------



## RichB

It has been a good discussion; Very informative.

However, since I already ordered the 2T EARS, the drive is cast 

- Rich


----------



## gamo62

Is the hard drive in the Premiere an SATA 3 or SATA 6?


----------



## kturcotte

gamo62 said:


> Is the hard drive in the Premiere an SATA 3 or SATA 6?


I would imagine it's SATA 3. I can't see any benefits to having an SATA 6 controller and SATA 6 drive.
However, SATA 6 drives are backwards compatible, so they'll work with the Tivo.


----------



## cr33p

Newegg has both the WD20EADS and EARS on sale with free 120gb WD Elements external for free shipped. 
The EARS is 109 shipped 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> Is the hard drive in the Premiere an SATA 3 or SATA 6?


The hard drive inside the TiVo Premiere is a 320GB SATA- 2, WD3200AVVS.


----------



## gamo62

kturcotte said:


> I would imagine it's SATA 3. I can't see any benefits to having an SATA 6 controller and SATA 6 drive.
> However, SATA 6 drives are backwards compatible, so they'll work with the Tivo.


I miagine that it would be overkill.


----------



## richsadams

And the price continues to drop. 2TB WD GP Hard Drive - WD20EARS for $94.99 w/free shipping...

http://dell.to/bmW3pA


----------



## orangeboy

Not to veer too far off topic, but are the drives being discussed (EADS/EARS) good for NAS applications? I keep my machines running 24/7, but not nearly with the read/write workload like a TiVo has. What would be good in a NAS (thinking of the ReadyNAS discussed in other threads) or other type of RAID setup?


----------



## richsadams

orangeboy said:


> Not to veer too far off topic, but are the drives being discussed (EADS/EARS) good for NAS applications? I keep my machines running 24/7, but not nearly with the read/write workload like a TiVo has. What would be good in a NAS (thinking of the ReadyNAS discussed in other threads) or other type of RAID setup?


It really depends on what you want your NAS to do. They would be fine as long as you didn't need high read/write/access speeds. WD GP drives are not up to the performance of full/standard 7200 RPM drives. The GP drives do use less energy, run quiet and cool though. If you're planning on streaming video you should probably go with the WD Black series or a similar drive from another manufacturer.

We have a D-Link 323 NAS w/2 1TB Hitachi Deskstar 7K2000.c drives inside running RAID 1 (mirrored). It works fine for our purposes, saving and streaming our iTunes and iPhoto libraries as well as copies of our DVD movie library that I rip to it.

That said, you're right, recommendations for NAS hardware, RAID setups, etc. are probably pretty far OT and best discussed on forums like the Broadband DSL or SmallNetBuilder. Plus I'm sure you'll get better information from the "experts" there rather than folks that only know enough to be dangerous like me.


----------



## RichB

I have 6 2TEADS green drives in my ReadyNas.
I can write to the NAS at around 90MB/sec.

- Rich


----------



## Bai Shen

orangeboy said:


> Not to veer too far off topic, but are the drives being discussed (EADS/EARS) good for NAS applications? I keep my machines running 24/7, but not nearly with the read/write workload like a TiVo has. What would be good in a NAS (thinking of the ReadyNAS discussed in other threads) or other type of RAID setup?


I've got two EARS drives in my Drobo. No problems so far.


----------



## krisca

Weaknees is a rip off. I had to mail my unit to them three times and they still did not did not fix the problem.The guys there are really rude. They would not give me my money back. I would not recommend them.


----------



## midlomuncher

Hey folks, another success story. 290 HD hours in my TP as of this morning. Loading it up now by transfering content from my 2TB Tivo S3 rig. I wanted to get away from having an external HD because my kids are a little rowdy and I worry about the extra target during the nerf wars.

Anyhow, as a linux newbie I followed comer's directions. The first time, I ran into an insurmountable error trying to run the tool. So, I decided to start over, do everything right and document my procedure. Hopefully, my procedure can help supplement comers instructions and get some of you off the fence!

*Standard warnings apply: Proceed at your own risk.*

1) I went here and and downloaded the 32-bit desktop edition .iso and then burned a boot DVD. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download

2) I disconnected all SATA disks in my Hackintosh and connected the original Tivo drive and the new 2TB WD20EARS drive (powered off & disconnected for this of course!)

3) After connecting both disks, I booted from the Ubuntu 10.04 Boot DVD. * I found the easiest way to get a Java Runtime Edition (JRE) and ddrescue installed was to use the Synaptic Package Manager*.

In the MENU BAR select:
S*YSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER*, then in the left pane select ALL and then in the right pane check *ddrescue and default-jre*. The other required package element check boxes will self-populate as needed. Then dont forget to click *APPLY*.

I performed one other action in the SPM:
*SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE*, I checked all the boxes except source code and then dont forget to click *RELOAD*.

You are done and can close the SPM.

4) Then in my Dowloads folder I created 2 folders for comers tool. I named the first javabin and the second javasrc. I downloaded and extracted the binaries (jar and scripts) to the javabin folder and the Sources to the javasrc folder.

5) Finally, I made my way into the Terminal and got to work! I tried all of the commands as written by comer with the appropriate drive names. Some commands worked the first time and some commands gave an error, so I re-entered the command with sudo in front and all the commands that didnt execute then executed properly.

In Terminal:

*fdisk l* (my disks listed: */dev/sda* is the original, */dev/sdb* is the 2TB)

*WARNING*: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!*****

*sudo hdparm i <old drive>* (info on original Tivo disk)

*sudo hdparm i <new drive>* (info on new TB disk)

*WARNING x2*: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!

*sudo chmod o+r <old drive>*

*sudo chmod o+rw <new drive>*

*navigate to directory where you extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)*

*./testLayout.sh <old drive>* (note used free & total numbers for comparison)

I then navigated back to the top directory (noted but not sure if this mattered)

*ddrescue r 3 <old drive> <new drive>* (it did run about 3 hours)

*when done, I navigated back to directory where I extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)*

*sudo ./mfsadd.sh <new drive>*

*./testLayout.sh <new drive>* (check numbers to see if they size increased)

The size increased, so I shut down the computer disconnected the new drive and put it back in the Tivo. I fired up the Tivo and ran the clear and delete. *Success*!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

tcfcameron said:


> Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL) AV-GP models only:
> "The drive arm frequently sweeps across the disk to reduce uneven wear on the drive surface common to audio video streaming applications." This is a drive firmware controlled feature. It does not matter what the drive is connected to. (Yet, I fail to understand what this could achieve, since WD brags about how "The recording head never touches the disk media..." in both the AV-GP and the GP-only models. How does a head, riding on air, that never touches the platter, cause uneven platter wear?)


Sort of OT, but this thread is all about hard drives, so I'll take a guess at this. I haven't kept up with drive advances since the '90s, so my information may be way out of date.

Yes it's true that, ideally, the drive heads don't touch the surface. But, in the old days, that wasn't the case. Which lead to a big problem of stiction in hard disk drives.

I expect that, for whatever reason, there is still some amount of lubricant being used. And having the drive arm periodically "sweep" across the platters would keep the lubricant evenly distributed. In the dark ages there were software programs that did exactly this. I think WD is saying they have moved this function into drive firmware.


----------



## gespears

DVR-Dude has competition:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-TiVo-Premie...514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bf6fd842

I find some of his claims a little misleading.

Edit:

Wow, now that I look there are tons of others selling these drives. It will be interesting to see if this changes now.


----------



## orangeboy

gespears said:


> DVR-Dude has competition:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-TiVo-Premie...514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bf6fd842
> 
> I find some of his claims a little misleading.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Wow, now that I look there are tons of others selling these drives. It will be interesting to see if this changes now.


Such as: "Condition: New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging..."?

Somehow the TiVo software made it onto the drive in an unopened box? I would think the box would have to be opened and the drive used at least once to put the TiVo image on, and used one more time in an actual TiVo to test that it works...


----------



## aaronwt

gespears said:


> DVR-Dude has competition:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-TiVo-Premie...514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bf6fd842
> 
> I find some of his claims a little misleading.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Wow, now that I look there are tons of others selling these drives. It will be interesting to see if this changes now.


That person has been selling the drives for a while also. I chose DVR Dude because they warrantied their labor for 1 year plus it seemed like DVR daddy was copying DVR DUDE anyway. I have been very pleased with my two DVR DUDE drives.


----------



## richsadams

orangeboy said:


> Such as: "Condition: New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging..."?


The old Vulcan/TiVo mind meld.


----------



## RichB

I am getting nowhere.

I first tried Ubunto and got the JRE and packages installed.
Then I tried "fdisk -l" and nothing is displayed.
So I gave up.

Then I decided to try windows:

1.Get Windows version of "dd" or "ddrescue"

Done.

2.Create an image of your old Tivo drive: copy disk using the tools above into a file <new image>

I do not believe I want windows to much with the TiVo drives.
How do I copy the file with DD from windows devices that are only known as Disk 1 and Disk 2?

- Rich


----------



## comer

RichB said:


> I am getting nowhere.
> 
> I first tried Ubunto and got the JRE and packages installed.
> Then I tried "fdisk -l" and nothing is displayed.
> So I gave up.
> 
> Then I decided to try windows:
> 
> 1.Get Windows version of "dd" or "ddrescue"
> 
> Done.
> 
> 2.Create an image of your old Tivo drive: copy disk using the tools above into a file <new image>
> 
> I do not believe I want windows to much with the TiVo drives.
> How do I copy the file with DD from windows devices that are only known as Disk 1 and Disk 2?
> 
> - Rich


Windows: "dd --list" and choose from the list the devices you would use.
Ubuntu: "*sudo* fdisk -l".


----------



## RichB

comer said:


> Windows: "dd --list" and choose from the list the devices you would use.
> Ubuntu: "*sudo* fdisk -l".


OK Thanks.

I went back to ubuntu and found that the drives were not found by fdisk in IDE mode. Once I changed to AHCI, fdisk found them.

After installing the ddrescue, I had to type the command to install it and then that worked. I am about 1/3 of the way through now.

- Rich


----------



## rsaly77

I thought I would help those having trouble installing JAVA in Ubuntu.
The system will do most of the work...

Start by going to System-Administration-Software Sources.
Click on the other software tab.
Click add and enter the following address without the quotes 'deb http://archive.canonical.com/ lucid partner'
Click on the Ubuntu Software tab and then check Community-maintained Open Source Software.
Now click on close and the system will reload software sources.

For some reason on my PC I have to reload the Software Sources twice, I do this by opening Software Sources and click on community-maintained software to remove check mark and then click on community-maintained software again to select. Now close software sources and the system will reload sources again.

Go to System-Administration-Synaptic Package Manager.
Search for sun java.
Right click on sun-java6-bin and mark for installation.
Now click on apply and agree to install all needed files.
The system will now install Sun Java....


----------



## cr33p

midlomuncher said:


> Hey folks, another success story. 290 HD hours in my TP as of this morning. Loading it up now by transfering content from my 2TB Tivo S3 rig. I wanted to get away from having an external HD because my kids are a little rowdy and I worry about the extra target during the nerf wars.
> 
> Anyhow, as a linux newbie I followed comer's directions. The first time, I ran into an insurmountable error trying to run the tool. So, I decided to start over, do everything right and document my procedure. Hopefully, my procedure can help supplement comers instructions and get some of you off the fence!
> 
> *Standard warnings apply: Proceed at your own risk.*
> 
> 1) I went here and and downloaded the 32-bit desktop edition .iso and then burned a boot DVD. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download
> 
> 2) I disconnected all SATA disks in my Hackintosh and connected the original Tivo drive and the new 2TB WD20EARS drive (powered off & disconnected for this of course!)
> 
> 3) After connecting both disks, I booted from the Ubuntu 10.04 Boot DVD. * I found the easiest way to get a Java Runtime Edition (JRE) and ddrescue installed was to use the Synaptic Package Manager*.
> 
> In the MENU BAR select:
> S*YSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER*, then in the left pane select ALL and then in the right pane check *ddrescue and default-jre*. The other required package element check boxes will self-populate as needed. Then dont forget to click *APPLY*.
> 
> I performed one other action in the SPM:
> *SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE*, I checked all the boxes except source code and then dont forget to click *RELOAD*.
> 
> You are done and can close the SPM.
> 
> 4) Then in my Dowloads folder I created 2 folders for comers tool. I named the first javabin and the second javasrc. I downloaded and extracted the binaries (jar and scripts) to the javabin folder and the Sources to the javasrc folder.
> 
> 5) Finally, I made my way into the Terminal and got to work! I tried all of the commands as written by comer with the appropriate drive names. Some commands worked the first time and some commands gave an error, so I re-entered the command with sudo in front and all the commands that didnt execute then executed properly.
> 
> In Terminal:
> 
> *fdisk l* (my disks listed: */dev/sda* is the original, */dev/sdb* is the 2TB)
> 
> *WARNING*: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!*****
> 
> *sudo hdparm i <old drive>* (info on original Tivo disk)
> 
> *sudo hdparm i <new drive>* (info on new TB disk)
> 
> *WARNING x2*: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!
> 
> *sudo chmod o+r <old drive>*
> 
> *sudo chmod o+rw <new drive>*
> 
> *navigate to directory where you extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)*
> 
> *./testLayout.sh <old drive>* (note used free & total numbers for comparison)
> 
> I then navigated back to the top directory (noted but not sure if this mattered)
> 
> *ddrescue r 3 <old drive> <new drive>* (it did run about 3 hours)
> 
> *when done, I navigated back to directory where I extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)*
> 
> *sudo ./mfsadd.sh <new drive>*
> 
> *./testLayout.sh <new drive>* (check numbers to see if they size increased)
> 
> The size increased, so I shut down the computer disconnected the new drive and put it back in the Tivo. I fired up the Tivo and ran the clear and delete. *Success*!


Do we have to run a C&D Everything? I was under the assumption that we where copying the existing drive and expanding it to a new drive? Wont that cause everyone to lose their Cable Card info? If this is the case wouldnt it make more sense to C&D before copying? It would make the image smaller?


----------



## midlomuncher

cr33p said:


> Do we have to run a C&D Everything? I was under the assumption that we where copying the existing drive and expanding it to a new drive? Wont that cause everyone to lose their Cable Card info? If this is the case wouldnt it make more sense to C&D before copying? It would make the image smaller?


My TP is new so I decided to run C&D Everything just for fun and to see if there were any problems doing so. I have FIOS , so no CableCard issues. My image was small to begin with.


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> Do we have to run a C&D Everything? I was under the assumption that we where copying the existing drive and expanding it to a new drive? Wont that cause everyone to lose their Cable Card info? If this is the case wouldnt it make more sense to C&D before copying? It would make the image smaller?


No, you don't have to C&D 
Unless you clone someoneelse's drive that does not match your Tivo. In this case, expand or not, you will get Error 51, which is cured by C&DE.


----------



## cr33p

comer said:


> No, you don't have to C&D
> Unless you clone someoneelse's drive that does not match your Tivo. In this case, expand or not, you will get Error 51, which is cured by C&DE.


Roger that, I typically save images for troubleshooting, upgrades, and tivo sales, so It will be nice to have a saved back up. Does anyone out there have a "virgin" image sitting on FTP for a Premiere? Would be very helpful to have in the TiVo aresenal


----------



## gamo62

cr33p said:


> Roger that, I typically save images for troubleshooting, upgrades, and tivo sales, so It will be nice to have a saved back up. Does anyone out there have a "virgin" image sitting on FTP for a Premiere? Would be very helpful to have in the TiVo aresenal


I too would love to have a virgin image of a Premiere.


----------



## cr33p

gamo62 said:


> I too would love to have a virgin image of a Premiere.


I just picked up two units this week that are "open box" not sure if they have been booted or not, I will try imaging them this week and see what I come up with.


----------



## rdangel

If someone wants to give me instructions on building a virgin image within ubuntu, I can do this. 
I have a premier I am about to open the box to that I am going to clone before I boot it. I reckon making a backup image is a good thing.


----------



## comer

rdangel said:


> If someone wants to give me instructions on building a virgin image within ubuntu, I can do this.
> I have a premier I am about to open the box to that I am going to clone before I boot it. I reckon making a backup image is a good thing.


Step #6 of Linux instructions of the post in my signature. Intead of "<new drive>" use file name (e.g. "/mnt/sdd1/my_virgin_tivo.img").


----------



## rdangel

DOH! Thanks Comer.
I will work on this image on Friday let everyone know when it is ready.


----------



## gamo62

rdangel said:


> DOH! Thanks Comer.
> I will work on this image on Friday let everyone know when it is ready.


Thanks. That will be great.


----------



## simon7

I've been waiting to buy a 2TB WD Green drive, but recently the Newegg reviews have gone from mixed to outright abysmal. I generally trust WD, but there must have been a bad batch or something.

As a possible alternative, does anyone have any experience or advice on these Samsung F4 drives in a Premiere? They use only 3 platters for 2TB so there should theoretically be some reliability benefit to that. Are 4096 byte physical sectors a problem for Tivo? Anyone know if I can adjust acoustics on a Samsung. Thanks!


----------



## wp746911

simon7 I wouldn't put much faith in online reviews of hard drives. ALL hard drives have a failure rate- and whenever one fails they are usually catastrophic and the owners are pissed and want to let the whole world know how crappy X manufactorer is. WD makes fine hard drives. I personally got a WD b/c it seems that they are popular on this forum- I actually got one in the same family (WD av/gp) as the one that is in the tivo premiere stock.


----------



## comer

simon7 said:


> Are 4096 byte physical sectors a problem for Tivo? Anyone know if I can adjust acoustics on a Samsung. Thanks!


Interesting point... Tivo relies on 512 byte/sector. However, I think that 4K/sector means that hardware will always read 4K, but will give out as much as requested.
There may be some performance degradation and redundant reads. As I imagine, for example Tivo requests to read 1 sector of 512 bytes. Drive's firmware reads 4K instead and discards 3.5K. Then Tivo requests to read the next sector. Drive reads 4K again, and so on. It could be mitigated through the cache though...


----------



## Bai Shen

AFAIK, 4k drives will work in 512 systems. However, you have to make sure the partitions are correctly aligned. WD has an alignment tool you can use if your OS doesn't support it natively.

Not sure how that works for tivo. I'd assume that once you're done setting up the drive that you'd run the alignment tool. But I have no way to know for sure.

I do believe that some people in this thread have gotten 4k drives working in their tivos.


----------



## richsadams

simon7 said:


> I've been waiting to buy a 2TB WD Green drive, but recently the Newegg reviews have gone from mixed to outright abysmal. I generally trust WD, but there must have been a bad batch or something.
> 
> As a possible alternative, does anyone have any experience or advice on these Samsung F4 drives in a Premiere? They use only 3 platters for 2TB so there should theoretically be some reliability benefit to that. Are 4096 byte physical sectors a problem for Tivo? Anyone know if I can adjust acoustics on a Samsung. Thanks!


Although WD's 2TB hard drives have less than a year of history it would be apparent by now if they had a major problem. Historically there have been hard drives that were obviously problematic and when that happens there are no doubts. The Seagate 1.5TB drive comes to mind. There were literally thousands of reports of problems all over the Internet from the day that they were released. Firmware updates and replacements calmed things down after a few months but a lot of folks still steer clear of them.

So I can understand the concern but looking back the reports of DOA or failed drives is about the same per capita as those for the 1TB models which are widely used by TCF members. The ratings on newegg are four out of five and the same goes for Amazon. As wp746911 mentioned, one thing to keep in mind is that the general public doesn't take the time to rate products and those that do have often had problems so negative reports can really skew things.

Samsung drives on the other hand have never been recommended for TiVo due to their spotty record of performance. There a a few folks using their 1TB Spinpoint drives but there are many more reports of problems either after they were in use for a while or in a number of cases that they wouldn't even boot up. That happened to yours truly a while back. The drive is working fine as a backup but I never could get it to work in a TiVo HD.

FWIW the 1TB WD10EARS is a two-platter drive and the 2TB WD20EARS is a three-platter drive.

Your call of course, but based on the positive experiences of WD's 1TB GP drives over the period of a couple of years, the positive feedback about the 2TB models on this thread (and other forums) as well as current ratings I wouldn't hesitate to use them.

BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## cr33p

rdangel said:


> DOH! Thanks Comer.
> I will work on this image on Friday let everyone know when it is ready.


Awesome, keep us posted  My 2tb just arrived today  Time to have some fun.


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.


Which WD models have 4K sectors?


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> Which WD models have 4K sectors?


IIRC all of WD's GP drives since December. Per this article...



> Along these lines, Linux and Mac OS X drive imaging products are similarly unaffected. In their testing, imaging tools such as SuperDuper didn't run in to any alignment issues, so Linux and Mac OS X users are not affected in any way by 4K sectors.
> 
> It's only Windows and Windows imaging products that are affected.


Since TiVo is a Unix/Linux/Apple hybird of sorts there haven't been any reported problems; only affecting older Windows machines AFAIK.

Good info here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-4k-sector,2554.html


----------



## tcfcameron

comer said:


> Which WD models have 4K sectors?


The WDXXEADS has 512, the WDXXEARS is 4K, I believe the "R" is the common denominator for 4K with WD drives. It's my understanding that they intend to phase out the non-4K drives over time, especially in the 2TB line. It is also my understanding that any drive larger than 2TB will only be available in the 4K sector size.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> The WDXXEADS has 512, the WDXXEARS is 4K, I believe the "R" is the common denominator for 4K with WD drives. It's my understanding that they intend to phase out the non-4K drives over time, especially in the 2TB line. It is also my understanding that any drive larger than 2TB will only be available in the 4K sector size.


According to various articles that seems to be the case. IIRC the EARS series is a direct replacement for the EADS.

Per the Tom's Hardware article:



> There is a simple way to identify the Advanced Format drive. You can either tell it by the product label that comes with a little note (see next page) or by the cache capacity. No other current WD mainstream drive besides the Caviar Black or RE4 come with 64MB of cache yet. At least for the Caviar Green models, you can be sure you're looking at an AFD model if the buffer size is 64MB.


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> The WDXXEADS has 512, the WDXXEARS is 4K, I believe the "R" is the common denominator for 4K with WD drives. It's my understanding that they intend to phase out the non-4K drives over time, especially in the 2TB line. It is also my understanding that any drive larger than 2TB will only be available in the 4K sector size.


Tom's is Tom's, but WD specs says 512b for EARS.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=763


> Formatted Capacity 1,000,204 MB
> User Sectors Per Drive	1,953,525,169


----------



## RichB

richsadams said:


> According to various articles that seems to be the case. IIRC the EARS series is a direct replacement for the EADS.
> 
> Per the Tom's Hardware article:


Interesting article.
It looks like there could be a big performance hit if TiVo writes 256 bytes at a time and the partitions are not aligned.

Could TiVo partitions be aligned with the WD tools (I am not sure if TiVo even used partitions)?

- Rich


----------



## RichB

comer said:


> Tom's is Tom's, but WD specs says 512b for EARS.
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=763


I see no mention of sector size. 
I tried dividing those numbers and got 512 byte sectors.

I am not sure what those specs really mean.

- Rich


----------



## comer

RichB said:


> I tried diving those numbers and got 512 byte sectors.


That's it.

1,000,204M/1,953,525,169 = 512. <- period


----------



## cr33p

midlomuncher said:


> Hey folks, another success story. 290 HD hours in my TP as of this morning. Loading it up now by transfering content from my 2TB Tivo S3 rig. I wanted to get away from having an external HD because my kids are a little rowdy and I worry about the extra target during the nerf wars.
> 
> Anyhow, as a linux newbie I followed comer's directions. The first time, I ran into an insurmountable error trying to run the tool. So, I decided to start over, do everything right and document my procedure. Hopefully, my procedure can help supplement comer's instructions and get some of you off the fence!
> 
> *Standard warnings apply: Proceed at your own risk.*
> 
> 1) I went here and and downloaded the 32-bit desktop edition .iso and then burned a boot DVD. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download
> 
> 2) I disconnected all SATA disks in my Hackintosh and connected the original Tivo drive and the new 2TB WD20EARS drive (powered off & disconnected for this of course!)
> 
> 3) After connecting both disks, I booted from the Ubuntu 10.04 Boot DVD. * I found the easiest way to get a Java Runtime Edition (JRE) and ddrescue installed was to use the Synaptic Package Manager*.
> 
> In the MENU BAR select:
> S*YSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER*, then in the left pane select ALL and then in the right pane check *ddrescue and default-jre*. The other required package element check boxes will self-populate as needed. Then don't forget to click *APPLY*.
> 
> I performed one other action in the SPM:
> *SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE*, I checked all the boxes except source code and then don't forget to click *RELOAD*.
> 
> You are done and can close the SPM.
> 
> 4) Then in my Dowloads folder I created 2 folders for comer's tool. I named the first javabin and the second javasrc. I downloaded and extracted the binaries (jar and scripts) to the javabin folder and the Sources to the javasrc folder.
> 
> 5) Finally, I made my way into the Terminal and got to work! I tried all of the commands as written by comer with the appropriate drive names. Some commands worked the first time and some commands gave an error, so I re-entered the command with "sudo" in front and all the commands that didn't execute then executed properly.
> 
> In Terminal:
> 
> *fdisk -l* (my disks listed: */dev/sda* is the original, */dev/sdb* is the 2TB)
> 
> *WARNING*: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!*****
> 
> *sudo hdparm -i <old drive>* (info on original Tivo disk)
> 
> *sudo hdparm -i <new drive>* (info on new TB disk)
> 
> *WARNING x2*: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!
> 
> *sudo chmod o+r <old drive>*
> 
> *sudo chmod o+rw <new drive>*
> 
> *navigate to directory where you extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)*
> 
> *./testLayout.sh <old drive>* (note used free & total numbers for comparison)
> 
> I then navigated back to the top directory (noted but not sure if this mattered)
> 
> *ddrescue -r 3 <old drive> <new drive>* (it did run about 3 hours)
> 
> *when done, I navigated back to directory where I extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)*
> 
> *sudo ./mfsadd.sh <new drive>*
> 
> *./testLayout.sh <new drive>* (check numbers to see if they size increased)
> 
> The size increased, so I shut down the computer disconnected the new drive and put it back in the Tivo. I fired up the Tivo and ran the clear and delete. *Success*!


Awesome write up thanks
However I am having some issues
I loaded Ubuntu on my lappy, installed both JRE 6 and DDrescue, copied my Javabin to the documents folder under a dir called javabin, I navigate to it, run the commands but I recieve an error from these commands

sudo hdparm -i <old drive> 
/dev/sdc:
HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument

I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>

Also when I run my command

./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error 
sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found

what gives???????


----------



## cmonroe

Followed the instructions in this thread using a WD20EARS in my Premiere and it worked great! Very nice set of tools. Before I begin I set the acoustic management to 128, and did not jumper pin 7 and 8. So far my Premiere has been up and running for almost 24 hours with no issues. Thanks guys!


----------



## RichB

cr33p said:


> Awesome write up thanks
> However I am having some issues
> I loaded Ubuntu on my lappy, installed both JRE 6 and DDrescue, copied my Javabin to the documents folder under a dir called javabin, I navigate to it, run the commands but I recieve an error from these commands
> 
> sudo hdparm i <old drive>
> /dev/sdc:
> HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
> HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument
> 
> I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>
> 
> Also when I run my command
> 
> ./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error
> sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found
> 
> what gives???????


I just ran this command first to be root for the duration:

sudo -s

My upgrade went well using the midlomuncher procedure (Thanks).
I had to make sure the system searched for all the packages.
Then it was fine.

I also had to set my controller the AHCI mode. The disks were not found in IDE mode.

Thanks comer for the scripts. I came away with 290 hours of HD.

I do find the EARS drive appears slower than my stock PXL.
I wonder if a WD black drive with AAM set might be a better choice for performance. Anyone tried that?

- Rich


----------



## midlomuncher

cr33p said:


> Awesome write up thanks
> However I am having some issues
> I loaded Ubuntu on my lappy, installed both JRE 6 and DDrescue, copied my Javabin to the documents folder under a dir called javabin, I navigate to it, run the commands but I recieve an error from these commands
> 
> sudo hdparm i <old drive>
> /dev/sdc:
> HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
> HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument
> 
> I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>
> 
> Also when I run my command
> 
> ./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error
> sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found
> 
> what gives???????


cr33p,

I can't help will this, maybe comer can chime in with his expertise.

JS


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> sudo hdparm i <old drive>
> /dev/sdc:
> HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
> HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument
> 
> I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>


It can happen when your controller is not recognized (no driver) or the drives are connected through USB. It's not a problem as long as you know which drive is which - i.e. as an example (YMMV) that /dev/sda is your source Tivo drive and /dev/sdb is your new big drive. If you don't and have no way of knowing (hdparm does not work) - do not change the SATA ports(!), disconnect one of the drives and see which one disappeared in your system 



> Also when I run my command
> 
> ./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error
> sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found
> 
> what gives???????


Use "sudo" *before* command: "sudo ./testLayout.sh <drive>"


----------



## RichB

comer said:


> It can happen when your controller is not recognized (no driver) or the drives are connected through USB. It's not a problem as long as you know which drive is which - i.e. as an example (YMMV) that /dev/sda is your source Tivo drive and /dev/sdb is your new big drive. If you don't and have no way of knowing (hdparm does not work) - do not change the SATA ports(!), disconnect one of the drives and see which one disappeared in your system  >


Try AHCI if you are SATA connected.



> Use "sudo" *before* command: "sudo ./testLayout.sh <drive>"


sudo -s

Can be done once to switch the super user for all of the command and not have to type it at each line.


----------



## cr33p

comer said:


> It can happen when your controller is not recognized (no driver) or the drives are connected through USB. It's not a problem as long as you know which drive is which - i.e. as an example (YMMV) that /dev/sda is your source Tivo drive and /dev/sdb is your new big drive. If you don't and have no way of knowing (hdparm does not work) - do not change the SATA ports(!), disconnect one of the drives and see which one disappeared in your system
> 
> Use "sudo" *before* command: "sudo ./testLayout.sh <drive>"


Yes the drives are connected via usb to sata adapter

I have tried the "sudo" in front of the command but then recieve "command not found"


----------



## cr33p

RichB said:


> Try AHCI if you are SATA connected.
> 
> sudo -s
> 
> Can be done once to switch the super user for all of the command and not have to type it at each line.


I will try the sudo -s and see what happens.

Now just to check, could this be an issue with my java install? Or is it a permissions problem? I know linux but not enough

thanks guys


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> I will try the sudo -s and see what happens.
> 
> Now just to check, could this be an issue with my java install? Or is it a permissions problem? I know linux but not enough
> 
> thanks guys


Try "java -version". If you get "command not found" then you need to set PATH to your Java.


Code:


export PATH=$PATH:<dir where java is installed>/bin

Though it was supposed to be set by install (did not work?).


----------



## donnoh

Linux brings back memories from the old days when I used to know as much about Unix as I did DOS. I thought the days were over when I had to enter commands at a prompt.
Oh well, I guess old school meets new school again. I guess us old farts aren't quite as obsolete as I thought.


----------



## cr33p

comer said:


> Try "java -version". If you get "command not found" then you need to set PATH to your Java.
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> export PATH=$PATH:<dir where java is installed>/bin
> 
> Though it was supposed to be set by install (did not work?).


Ok so, I checked the javaversion and I show 
Java version "1.6.0_18"
Open JDK Runtime Enviroment
Open JDK Server VM

So just to make sure im not utterly retarded. My command is as follows in my dir that is containing all of the mfsjava files that are already extracted

./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc

then I also added sudo in front of that command


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> Ok so, I checked the javaversion and I show
> Java version "1.6.0_18"
> Open JDK Runtime Enviroment
> Open JDK Server VM


Yes, Java seems fine.



> So just to make sure im not utterly retarded. My command is as follows in my dir that is containing all of the mfsjava files that are already extracted
> 
> ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc
> 
> then I also added sudo in front of that command


Correct, so it should be "sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc".
And could you also check that you have "./test.sh"?


----------



## cr33p

comer said:


> Yes, Java seems fine.
> 
> Correct, so it should be "sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc".
> And could you also check that you have "./test.sh"?


Yes I have all files needed including the test.sh 
its really weird no matter what I try I either get permission denied when running the command without sudo, even with full root access. Or I get the error

-bash: ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc: no such file or directory

However ddrescue will run and copy with no problems at all from one drive to the other. So I know my drives are their and accessible


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> Yes I have all files needed including the test.sh
> its really weird no matter what I try I either get permission denied when running the command without sudo, even with full root access. Or I get the error
> 
> -bash: ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc: no such file or directory
> 
> However ddrescue will run and copy with no problems at all from one drive to the other. So I know my drives are their and accessible


Oh! Do this:
chmod +x ./*.sh
and then try


----------



## cr33p

comer said:


> Oh! Do this:
> chmod +x ./*.sh
> and then try


5 1/2 hrs and counting on copying drive via usb/sata adapters  This will not do for me next time, I will be connecting directly to mbd, I have an avg of 10459kbps, what is everyone elses avg thus far?


----------



## rkrenicki

I just completed my copy and expansion onto a WD10EARS drive, using my AMD 785G based motherboard, I was getting an average of 40MB/s during the ddrescue phase. This is using AHCI. 

On a side note, and not to belittle anyones work on this, but there must be a better way of doing this then using ddrescue.. its not really necessary to copy over 300gigs of 0's. 3 hours for the raw copy is just painful, especially when its only a few gigs of actual data that is moving over. I am glad I didnt just copy the DVR_Dude drive that I have in my other unit.. that would have taken 10 hours easy!


----------



## bsmith1051

donnoh said:


> old farts aren't quite as obsolete as I thought.


some things never go away...


----------



## cr33p

comer said:


> Oh! Do this:
> chmod +x ./*.sh
> and then try


It worked !!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I am now a proud member of the 2tb club 

Comer if my used space was 3.68gb us that likely a virgin image?

Also to output my stock image to save I would use /dev/sda/premiere.img as my target rather then the new drive? sda=laptops internal drive


----------



## rdangel

I just upgraded my Premier yesterday! A 2TB tivo!!!

Anyway, I also created a virgin image of the tivo premier as requested. I am not sure about the legality of distribution of it but PM me if you have ideas.


----------



## wluk

midlomuncher said:


> Hey folks, another success story. 290 HD hours in my TP as of this morning. Loading it up now by transfering content from my 2TB Tivo S3 rig. I wanted to get away from having an external HD because my kids are a little rowdy and I worry about the extra target during the nerf wars.
> 
> Anyhow, as a linux newbie I followed comer's directions. The first time, I ran into an insurmountable error trying to run the tool. So, I decided to start over, do everything right and document my procedure. Hopefully, my procedure can help supplement comers instructions and get some of you off the fence!
> 
> *Standard warnings apply: Proceed at your own risk.*
> 
> 1) I went here and and downloaded the 32-bit desktop edition .iso and then burned a boot DVD. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download
> 
> 2) I disconnected all SATA disks in my Hackintosh and connected the original Tivo drive and the new 2TB WD20EARS drive (powered off & disconnected for this of course!)
> 
> 3) After connecting both disks, I booted from the Ubuntu 10.04 Boot DVD. * I found the easiest way to get a Java Runtime Edition (JRE) and ddrescue installed was to use the Synaptic Package Manager*.
> 
> In the MENU BAR select:
> S*YSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER*, then in the left pane select ALL and then in the right pane check *ddrescue and default-jre*. The other required package element check boxes will self-populate as needed. Then dont forget to click *APPLY*.
> 
> I performed one other action in the SPM:
> *SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE*, I checked all the boxes except source code and then dont forget to click *RELOAD*.
> 
> You are done and can close the SPM.
> 
> 4) Then in my Dowloads folder I created 2 folders for comers tool. I named the first javabin and the second javasrc. I downloaded and extracted the binaries (jar and scripts) to the javabin folder and the Sources to the javasrc folder.
> 
> 5) Finally, I made my way into the Terminal and got to work! I tried all of the commands as written by comer with the appropriate drive names. Some commands worked the first time and some commands gave an error, so I re-entered the command with sudo in front and all the commands that didnt execute then executed properly.
> 
> In Terminal:
> 
> *fdisk l* (my disks listed: */dev/sda* is the original, */dev/sdb* is the 2TB)
> 
> *WARNING*: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!*****
> 
> *sudo hdparm i <old drive>* (info on original Tivo disk)
> 
> *sudo hdparm i <new drive>* (info on new TB disk)
> 
> *WARNING x2*: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!
> 
> *sudo chmod o+r <old drive>*
> 
> *sudo chmod o+rw <new drive>*
> 
> *navigate to directory where you extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)*
> 
> *./testLayout.sh <old drive>* (note used free & total numbers for comparison)
> 
> I then navigated back to the top directory (noted but not sure if this mattered)
> 
> *ddrescue r 3 <old drive> <new drive>* (it did run about 3 hours)
> 
> *when done, I navigated back to directory where I extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)*
> 
> *sudo ./mfsadd.sh <new drive>*
> 
> *./testLayout.sh <new drive>* (check numbers to see if they size increased)
> 
> The size increased, so I shut down the computer disconnected the new drive and put it back in the Tivo. I fired up the Tivo and ran the clear and delete. *Success*!


I am transferring the data to the new 1.5gb hard drive now. It is indeed very slow.

I stopped it once because there was an error with errsize 226kb. Not sure if it matters or not so I "Ctrl-C" it and started it over again. But then it had the same error the second time? How can I tell if the error is coming from the source or the destination drive?

So far the instruction is very easy to follow. The only thing I had problem was finding ddrescue from Synaptic Package Manage. I had to perform the step below first before I could find it.


I performed one other action in the SPM:
*SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE*, I checked all the boxes except source code and then dont forget to click *RELOAD*.​
Then I also had to download/install gddrescue (on top of ddrescue) from Synaptic Package Manage in order to run ddrescue.

Info on installing gddrescue:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/21876/rescue-old-damaged-cds-with-an-ubuntu-live-cd/


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> It worked !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I am now a proud member of the 2tb club


Yay! :up:



> Comer if my used space was 3.68gb us that likely a virgin image?


When you make an image of the disk it is always the size of the original disk - i.e. 320G, but compressed - it take less, because of all the zeroes. In you case - likely much less (I guess a few Gs) because only 1% was used.



> Also to output my stock image to save I would use /dev/sda/premiere.img as my target rather then the new drive? sda=laptops internal drive


Yes, if you want to backup, you need to create *a image file* rather than *a clone drive*. Don't forget to mount the partition on which you want to ouput your file 
There's got to be some graphic mounting tool (I don't know for sure - don't use ubuntu, but others do have it), or command "mount <target partition like /dev/sda1> <directory on the disk - must exist like /mnt/sda1>". After that you work with your disk as if it is that directory - creating file in "/mnt/sda1" would create file on the disk.


----------



## comer

wluk said:


> I am transferring the data to the new 1.5gb hard drive now. It is indeed very slow.
> 
> I stopped it once because there was an error with errsize 226kb. Not sure if it matters or not so I "Ctrl-C" it and started it over again. But then it had the same error the second time? How can I tell if the error is coming from the source or the destination drive?


Sorry to hear that  I don't remember exactly, but doesn't the error message say *read* or *write* error?
You can try to ignore it - use "-n" paremeter instead of "-r 3":


> ddrescue -n /dev/old_disk /dev/new_disk rescued.log


The last parameter - is the log file needed to retry error areas. After the "good" run completes, retry errors:


> ddrescue -r 5 /dev/old_disk /dev/new_disk rescued.log


It will use the log file to retry read/write errors only.

You can also try using drive manufacturers utilities to scan/test the drive. The WD tests are non-destructive and can correct some errors (I did have a bad block on my original Tivo drive - was fixed by these tools).
WD Disgnostic Tool
I recommend using it from clean environment (i.e. *not* Windows variety)


----------



## wluk

It didn't say read or write error. This is all I have on the screen.


rescued: 320072 MB, errsize: 4096 B, current rate: 0 B/s
ipos: 3040 MB, errors: 1, average rate: 29453 kB/s
opos: 3040 MB, time from last successful read: 10.2 m
Finished ​
I will try the WD Disgnostic Tool and see what's going on.

Thanks


----------



## comer

Is there any tradition here around the post #666?


----------



## wluk

The -n and -r 5 with the log file couldn't fix the problem. The result is the same and I couldn't get the WD Disgnostic Tool to work. I will try it again tomorrow.

I am running chkdsk on the new drive to make sure it isn't the new drive problem.

But I used the new drive to boot up TiVo and it works fine it seems.



comer said:


> Sorry to hear that  I don't remember exactly, but doesn't the error message say *read* or *write* error?
> You can try to ignore it - use "-n" paremeter instead of "-r 3":
> 
> The last parameter - is the log file needed to retry error areas. After the "good" run completes, retry errors:
> 
> It will use the log file to retry read/write errors only.
> 
> You can also try using drive manufacturers utilities to scan/test the drive. The WD tests are non-destructive and can correct some errors (I did have a bad block on my original Tivo drive - was fixed by these tools).
> WD Disgnostic Tool
> I recommend using it from clean environment (i.e. *not* Windows variety)


----------



## comer

wluk said:


> The -n and -r 5 with the log file couldn't fix the problem. The result is the same and I couldn't get the WD Disgnostic Tool to work. I will try it again tomorrow.
> 
> I am running chkdsk on the new drive to make sure it isn't the new drive problem.
> 
> But I used the new drive to boot up TiVo and it works fine it seems.


If the bad sector was in unused space then the new disk should be just fine. Which is likely, considering that only 1% of the virgin drive is used.
However, if the new drive has a hole in it, not the old one, then when Tivo gets to it eventually - it will result in error or lost data.
So checking the drive with WD tool seems like a very good idea. Another, albeit crude, way to check if the source drive is bad is to do "dd" copy to "/dev/null". If there is a an error it could only come from the source drive.


----------



## wluk

I do hope the bad sector is in unused on the source. The new drive was scanned and there was no bad sector.

I couldn't get the WD tool to work because it kept saying the license file not found. Then I got the UBCD image which has the same WD tool in there. However when I ran it, the WD had a 132 code so I gave up.

132	Command Error	Command Aborted. Please ensure that you are using the version of diagnostic utility corresponding to either newer or older Western Digital drives.​
Now that my new drive is working and all I want to do is to create a backup image of the old drive. I am been searching for tools to do it in Windows as I am not very good with Linux without someone spoon feed me the commands.

I really want to thank comer for his great work.


----------



## comer

wluk said:


> Now that my new drive is working and all I want to do is to create a backup image of the old drive. I am been searching for tools to do it in Windows as I am not very good with Linux without someone spoon feed me the commands.


If you know what "mount" is, then it's anly a matter of running the same "ddrescue" or "dd" (possibly with compression), but using a path to a file where your backup image will be stored. See here
If you don't - I think Paragon Disk Manager should be able to backup the drive with "raw" access turned on.



> I really want to thank comer for his great work.


No problem - buy me a beer :up:


----------



## wluk

I followed this link to mount my Windows drive to Ubuntu

http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/mounting-windows-partition-onto-ubuntu-linux/

Then change directory to the folder with the mounted drive and run this command

dd if=/dev/sdb | bzip2 -c9 >tivo.img.bz2

"/dev/sdb" would the source drive. "tivo.img.bz2" would be the output file name.

however the output file size with the compressed option is still 300gb as opposes to 3gb?


----------



## donnoh

I love this thread. There is nothing better than people hacking a Tivo and making it better!


----------



## comer

wluk said:


> I followed this link to mount my Windows drive to Ubuntu
> 
> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/mounting-windows-partition-onto-ubuntu-linux/
> 
> Then change directory to the folder with the mounted drive and run this command
> 
> dd if=/dev/sdb | bzip2 -c9 >tivo.img.bz2
> 
> "/dev/sdb" would the source drive. "tivo.img.bz2" would be the output file name.


Just make sure the "tivo.img.bz2" is created on Windows drive, i.e. I would make it explicit "<mounted drive>/tivo.img.bz2".



> however the output file size with the compressed option is still 300gb as opposes to 3gb?


Yes, it was discussed, sometimes it's hard to compress Tivo drive. Oh well, until someone (me?) comes out with partial backup we have to live with huge files.


----------



## comer

The jmfs Live CD has arrived here. :up:


----------



## comer

It is awfully quiet today. What's going on?


----------



## RichB

comer said:


> It is awfully quiet today. What's going on?


Thanks for the new disk.
My Friend orders a Premiere on Sunday and a new drive. I will give it a spin next week.

I think people are waiting for the Premiere stock to come back up.

- Rich


----------



## cr33p

comer said:


> It is awfully quiet today. What's going on?


I wonder if all the true "Hackers" have all upgraded thus far ? With the introduction of this new Live CD I'm sure we will see many more folks here chiming in.

Comer, what does it take to clean up a "virgin" image to make it bootable to any Tivo without a C&D everything? I know the hybrid image Mr Brolovski had was set like that and Dvr Dude's is like that yeah? What are these guys doing to the image?


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> I wonder if all the true "Hackers" have all upgraded thus far ? With the introduction of this new Live CD I'm sure we will see many more folks here chiming in.
> 
> Comer, what does it take to clean up a "virgin" image to make it bootable to any Tivo without a C&D everything? I know the hybrid image Mr Brolovski had was set like that and Dvr Dude's is like that yeah? What are these guys doing to the image?


I don't know, honestly  If I had to guess, I'd say that there's a database of settings on the drive, where the information of a married hardware is stored. Tivo decided not to be too hard if that information is missing - just restore it to where it is supposed to be.
It's should not be too hard to investigate what exactly is changing with C&DE. First, C&DE (to minimize area changes - movies will be all gone), then marry the drive again, take an image, then C&DE and compare 

I think this feature is useless for an average user. For commercial cloning on the other hand...


----------



## gespears

comer said:


> The jmfs Live CD has arrived here. :up:


Thanks again Comer for all your hard work. You ARE the man!

Does this new disk have instructions for just making a copy of the disk? I have a 2tb I want to make a backup of. It has several recordings on it I don't want to loose if it craps out. Of course they have that stupid copy protection so I can't transfer them off to anything else.

Thanks!


----------



## aaronwt

will the new 3TB drives work in the Premiere?


----------



## kturcotte

aaronwt said:


> will the new 3TB drives work in the Premiere?


Don't think so, but I hope so. Ever larger would be nice. LOVE to have an even 1000 HD hours of space. Course, just imagine how much space we'll need when we hit UHD (Ultra High Definition) lol


----------



## comer

aaronwt said:


> will the new 3TB drives work in the Premiere?


Not to the full capacity yet.


----------



## wp746911

mmm 3Tb- makes 2 tb seem so last week


----------



## comer

wp746911 said:


> mmm 3Tb- makes 2 tb seem so last week


Are they out yet? Where, how much?


----------



## orangeboy

comer said:


> Are they out yet? Where, how much?


Me thinks someone wants to experiment...


----------



## kturcotte

comer said:


> Are they out yet? Where, how much?


Hoping they come out soon. Should drive the price of the 2 TB drives down. Wait-I already know when they'll ship-the day AFTER I buy a 2 TB and the prices drop to $75 lol


----------



## comer

orangeboy said:


> Me thinks someone wants to experiment...


You got that right  Just today I though of creating an LVM volume of 3T to experiment. I wouldn't be able to test it in Tivo, of course, but at least I would test the tool


----------



## aaronwt

comer said:


> Are they out yet? Where, how much?





jmpage2 said:


> Not sure what you're puffing but 3TB drives are not available yet. There are 3TB enclosures available that consist of 2 1.5TB drives striped together.


Seagate came out with a five platter 3TB drive this Summer. The drive is a 3TB Barracuda XT, 7200rpm.
Right now it is only in an external enclosure so you have to break the case open to access the 3TB drive. Supposedly they will release the bare 3TB drive later this year or early next. Here is a review from AnandTech.
The World's First 3TB HDD: Seagate GoFlex Desk 3TB Review

Circuit City has them as well as other places. It's $200
http://www.circuitcity.com/applicat...mHCjC2WHaCjCVqHCjCdwwp&cpncode=23-110731044-2

At only $200 for the external enclosure and drive for 3TB is realtively cheap. When the first 1TB drives came out, they were five platters too. Hitachi had them out and I had to pay around $275 each for two hitachi external drives to get my hands on the 1TB drives so I could put them in my TiVos.


----------



## Jonathan_S

comer said:


> wp746911 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mmm 3Tb- makes 2 tb seem so last week
> 
> 
> 
> Are they out yet? Where, how much?
Click to expand...

Seagate released their 3TB drive back in June. But, because windows apparently has _issues_ with 3TB boot drives, they've only made it avalible as an external drive. It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.

Amazon carries it for 200 bucks.


----------



## comer

Jonathan_S said:


> Seagate released their 3TB drive back in June. But, because windows apparently has _issues_ with 3TB boot drives, they've only made it avalible as an external drive. It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.
> 
> Amazon carries it for 200 bucks.


Indeed, Newegg too. Alright then, as soon as I have big enough pile of cash, I am getting it


----------



## wp746911

yeah but 7200 rpm - dont know if I would want this in full time- good for experimental usage


----------



## aaronwt

wp746911 said:


> yeah but 7200 rpm - dont know if I would want this in full time- good for experimental usage


if it only produces heat similar to the 5 platter 1Terabyte Hitachi drives then it might not be a problem. My girlfriend still has two series 3 models each with the 5 platter 1TB hitachi drives. They have been running basically 24/7 since the 1TB drives were first released. They have not caused any issues in the Series 3 boxes. 
the largest drive I have in my Premiere is a 2TB drive. I think it is a 4 platter drive and it is a 7200rpm drive. That TiVo only runs 2 degress hotter than with the stock 320GB drive(using the TiVo temp in the sys info screen)


----------



## rdangel

Guys, I have a 2.0GB virgin premier image (compressed) that is ready to go. Anybody want to test it? PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

The image was directly from the 320GB disk that was never booted in the Tivo. Went from Box, to linux box to image.


----------



## kturcotte

Would an SSD increase performance any (I know, size and price lol just curious)?


----------



## richsadams

Jonathan_S said:


> It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.


The only downside in doing that is that it voids the warranty. I've no idea if Seagate could tell if the enclosure has been opened or if you could slip it back in if it went south in the next three years. IIRC you had to basically destroy their FAP's to get them open. WD makes their externals impossible to open w/o doing some damage. Just a thought...but if it were me I wouldn't want that kind of investment to become a doorstop.


----------



## RichB

kturcotte said:


> Would an SSD increase performance any (I know, size and price lol just curious)?


This is probably the worst possible use of an SSD.
The less expensive (Still very expensive) drives use MLC which have limited writes but the newer drives load balance. It would be a great way to learn just how long these drives can work. 240 Gig for $600 is not great.

BTW, my WD 2TB EARS is very quiet. Much quieter than my stock PXL drive.

- Rich


----------



## richsadams

kturcotte said:


> Would an SSD increase performance any (I know, size and price lol just curious)?


TiVo's OEM drives are 5400RPM w/2MB cache and 7200RPM drives (16, 32 or 64MB cache) don't improve performance so my WAG is that an SSD wouldn't make much difference either. But if money's burning a hole in your pocket you could join Comer and others in the TiVo Pioneer Club!


----------



## kturcotte

RichB said:


> This is probably the worst possible use of an SSD.
> The less expensive (Still very expensive) drives use MLC which have limited writes but the newer drives load balance. It would be a great way to learn just how long these drives can work. 240 Gig for $600 is not great.
> 
> BTW, my WD 2TB EARS is very quiet. Much quieter than my stock PXL drive.
> 
> - Rich


Exactly-I'd be SCARED to find out what the 2 TB drives cost when they finally get to them!!!! Just wondering if it would in fact increase performance?


----------



## donnoh

aaronwt said:


> if it only produces heat similar to the 5 platter 1Terabyte Hitachi drives then it might not be a problem. My girlfriend still has two series 3 models each with the 5 platter 1TB hitachi drives. They have been running basically 24/7 since the 1TB drives were first released. They have not caused any issues in the Series 3 boxes.
> the largest drive I have in my Premiere is a 2TB drive. I think it is a 4 platter drive and it is a 7200rpm drive. That TiVo only runs 2 degress hotter than with the stock 320GB drive(using the TiVo temp in the sys info screen)


You must not love your girlfriend, you haven't upgraded her to Premieres yet.


----------



## comer

donnoh said:


> You must not love your girlfriend, you haven't upgraded her to Premieres yet.


 Good one!  You should sell this slogan to Tivo


----------



## RichB

kturcotte said:


> Exactly-I'd be SCARED to find out what the 2 TB drives cost when they finally get to them!!!! Just wondering if it would in fact increase performance?


Absolutely, SSD's vary in performance but the Vertex 2 I run on my system is fantastic.

- Rich


----------



## Shagger

I am planning on getting the Tivo Premiere and was going to just add a 1TB or 2TB eSATA drive in my Antec MX-1 enclosure? Is this a solid plan? The $200 savings by not getting the XL is mitigated by the drive cost and the fact that I just don't feel like cracking open the Premiere and cloning the drive. (yes, I am lazy!)


----------



## kturcotte

Shagger said:


> I am planning on getting the Tivo Premiere and was going to just add a 1TB or 2TB eSATA drive in my Antec MX-1 enclosure? Is this a solid plan? The $200 savings by not getting the XL is mitigated by the drive cost and the fact that I just don't feel like cracking open the Premiere and cloning the drive. (yes, I am lazy!)


Never been a fan of external drives. More power, and greater possibility of something going wrong (2 drives vs 1).


----------



## richsadams

Shagger said:


> I am planning on getting the Tivo Premiere and was going to just add a 1TB or 2TB eSATA drive in my Antec MX-1 enclosure? Is this a solid plan? The $200 savings by not getting the XL is mitigated by the drive cost and the fact that I just don't feel like cracking open the Premiere and cloning the drive. (yes, I am lazy!)


If it were only that simple. The problem is that every TiVo except the original Series3 recognizes expansion drives by the actual hard drive model number. Since whatever you want to connect to your Premiere is not the "authorized" WD My DVR Expander or the WD My Book AV DVR Expander you'd still have to open up your TiVo, pull the hard drive, connect both drives to a computer and marry them manually. FWIW I don't think anyone has done that (with a Premier at least)...almost certainly for that reason. If the drive has to be pulled and imaged anyway, why not just upgrade?

It was a nice thought though.


----------



## aaronwt

donnoh said:


> You must not love your girlfriend, you haven't upgraded her to Premieres yet.


I gave her the option of keeping her S3 units or giving her two Premieres and selling the S3 boxes. She wanted to keep the S3 boxes since she was more familiar with them. Of course I can't stand using them now since I don't like the SDUI.
So if there are alot of shows recorded that we watch, I will just take one of the Premieres with me when I go to her house instead of having to view them with her S3 boxes.


----------



## kturcotte

Jonathan_S said:


> Seagate released their 3TB drive back in June. But, because windows apparently has _issues_ with 3TB boot drives, they've only made it avalible as an external drive. It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.
> 
> Amazon carries it for 200 bucks.


64 bit Windows shouldn't have any problem with it should it, as long as it's not your boot drive?


----------



## lessd

aaronwt said:


> So if there are alot of shows recorded that we watch, I will just take one of the Premieres with me when I go to her house instead of having to view them with her S3 boxes.


OK!!! you go through the effort to disconnect you home TP lug it to her home connect it to her HDTV just so you can get to a program you both want to watch using the HDUI, (I am assuming she has the same program recorded in HD on her Series 3) than bring the TP back to your home and reconnect. To get to a program I want to watch is about 2 to 6 seconds using the SD menu, than 1 hour of watching what you recorded. Are you pulling our leg, or I guess some people really have a lot of religion about some things. (_I will if at all possible never use any TiVo that does not have a HDUI, I don't care how much trouble it is for me_)


----------



## aaronwt

lessd said:


> OK!!! you go through the effort to disconnect you home TP lug it to her home connect it to her HDTV just so you can get to a program you both want to watch using the HDUI, (I am assuming she has the same program recorded in HD on her Series 3) than bring the TP back to your home and reconnect. To get to a program I want to watch is about 2 to 6 seconds using the SD menu, than 1 hour of watching what you recorded. Are you pulling our leg, or I guess some people really have a lot of religion about some things. (_I will if at all possible never use any TiVo that does not have a HDUI, I don't care how much trouble it is for me_)


First it's only if there are alot of recordings, then it's not just the Sd menu. She records from OTA only and since the switch to VHF for a couple of stations in the DC area they can sometimes have issues.
If it's only two or three shows I will bring my PopBox over and we will either watch it from the PopBox or from her Tivo. if there are more shows(especially if they are from cable)I will just take the Premiere with me just in case. That Premiere is easy to access and I can have the cables removed and have it wrapped in a towel in under a minute. I'll usually grab it just before I head out the door.


----------



## rdangel

tcfcameron said:


> Well, on behalf of many, I thank you for your effort!
> 
> What is the file extension of the image and what tools are capable of, or required, to work with it? Also, for the Windows people, myself included, are there any Windows-based programs that can work with it?


My image is gzipped, but I believe modern day winzip can unzip that. I used ubuntu to build the image, it was really easy and I am NOT a linux guy. I have my boot drive on a flash drive so I pop it in, boot ubuntu and run the commands in comer's email. Its really easy, so easy I could do this again and again.. Makes me think that I should go the ebay route, but I dont want the hassle and would feel guilty charging for Comer's heavy lifting.

I felt better about myself after donating a small amount to Comer as I would be nowhere without his hard work.


----------



## gespears

Hey Comer, still wondering the following:

Does this new disk have instructions for just making a copy of the disk? I have a 2tb I want to make a backup of. It has several recordings on it I don't want to loose if it craps out. Of course they have that stupid copy protection so I can't transfer them off to anything else.

Thanks!


----------



## comer

gespears said:


> Hey Comer, still wondering the following:
> 
> Does this new disk have instructions for just making a copy of the disk? I have a 2tb I want to make a backup of. It has several recordings on it I don't want to loose if it craps out. Of course they have that stupid copy protection so I can't transfer them off to anything else.
> 
> Thanks!


The instructions are primarily about upgrading stock disk for a bigger one with more space for recordings. There are instructions for making a full disk backup as well, mostly in this thread. Full backup does not truncate anything - it is basically a disk image. Even compressed it can be as big as the original disk.


----------



## Shagger

OK - so I have convinced my self that I will save $$$ by NOT getting the XL and buy a larger drive and install it myself. I did do an expansion on my S2DT Tivo and I am one of those guys that will tinker (build all my own PC's, run CAT5e in the house, do the brakes on the cars, change the oil, etc...) so I guess I will do this expansion myself. Are there any drives to stay away from (reliabilty, 4K issue, etc...)? I realize that the manufacturer reliability is cyclical, (Seagate used to be top dog) but who is currently king? Are people going with 1TB, 1.5TB or 2TB drives? I'd rather do this on a pristine, right out of the box Tivo to minimize transfer time, so I want to get all my parts together prior to starting the assembly.


----------



## scoombs

Jonathan_S said:


> Seagate released their 3TB drive back in June. But, because windows apparently has _issues_ with 3TB boot drives, they've only made it avalible as an external drive. It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.


Here is a write-up on the 3TB drive including using it internally.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3858/the-worlds-first-3tb-hdd-seagate-goflex-desk-3tb-review


----------



## comer

Shagger said:


> Are there any drives to stay away from (reliabilty, 4K issue, etc...)? I realize that the manufacturer reliability is cyclical, (Seagate used to be top dog) but who is currently king? Are people going with 1TB, 1.5TB or 2TB drives? I'd rather do this on a pristine, right out of the box Tivo to minimize transfer time, so I want to get all my parts together prior to starting the assembly.


I didn't do a poll on the subject, but it seems that WD and Hitachi are preferred (in this order). It makes sense to go with 2T drive vs smaller ones - price difference is small, but space is a lot bigger.


----------



## richsadams

Shagger said:


> OK - so I have convinced my self that I will save $$$ by NOT getting the XL and buy a larger drive and install it myself. I did do an expansion on my S2DT Tivo and I am one of those guys that will tinker (build all my own PC's, run CAT5e in the house, do the brakes on the cars, change the oil, etc...) so I guess I will do this expansion myself. Are there any drives to stay away from (reliabilty, 4K issue, etc...)? I realize that the manufacturer reliability is cyclical, (Seagate used to be top dog) but who is currently king? Are people going with 1TB, 1.5TB or 2TB drives? I'd rather do this on a pristine, right out of the box Tivo to minimize transfer time, so I want to get all my parts together prior to starting the assembly.


FWIW if I were going to upgrade my Premiere XL today I'd go with Western Digital's WD20EVDS:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136494

Price-wise it's a little higher than some of the other WD 2TB drives, but it's a dedicated A/V hard drive so the AAM is already set to 128 and based on recent reports if this drive has been manufactured after August 1 or so the issue with the Intellipark feature and soft reboots doesn't apply. So that would be my choice of the moment.

I used to be a die-hard Seagate man, but over the past few years their QC has plummeted for some reason. Seems like that happened about the same time they acquired Maxtor, but it could be a coincidence. So WD has moved from lower in the food chain to near the top if not top on my list now. I've also had great success with Hitachi's Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K. (http://amzn.to/cinYZz or http://amzn.to/bmY99L) They run very cool and quiet and the three I have have been flawless for over a year now. They are 1TB however so I'm not sure about the 2TB version.

BTW, at today's current prices I wouldn't waste my time with a 1TB or 1.5TB drive. My rule of thumb has always been buy as much space as you can afford even if you don't think you'll use it.

The 4K Sector format hasn't affected TiVo upgrades to date.

I'm sure others will chime in but hope that helps and happy upgrading!


----------



## slowbiscuit

Any luck on figuring out how to enable MFS supersize to get the reserved space back?


----------



## Shagger

Are there any fan headers inside the Premiere box to keep the drives cool?


----------



## richsadams

Shagger said:


> Are there any fan headers inside the Premiere box to keep the drives cool?


TiVo Premier's have the typical single exhaust fan.


----------



## RichB

richsadams said:


> TiVo Premier's have the typical single exhaust fan.


Yes, one connector.

My TiVo XL has a very noisy fan, I am not sure if it began that way though.
I have a couple of replacements I will try out.

- Rich


----------



## cap

comer said:


> The jmfs Live CD has arrived here. :up:


Trying the cd now. Great job on this comer. I like how you worded it to explicity explain very clearly what you are doing.

I can't wait to fire the new upgraded TiVo up.


----------



## richsadams

RichB said:


> Yes, one connector.
> 
> My TiVo XL has a very noisy fan, I am not sure if it began that way though.
> I have a couple of replacements I will try out.
> 
> - Rich


Hmmmthe fan on our TiVo PXL is near silent, so not normal. Where'd you find other fans? From other TiVo's? I haven't had a close look, is it a standard fan you can pick up at the local computer store? The older TiVo fans were somewhat proprietary.


----------



## Shagger

One small hitch in my plan, I am planning on getting the Tivo deal for a free Premiere and pay $19.99 for the service. I'd have 30 days for satisfaction guaranteed, but cracking open the Tivo will void the warranty I am assuming.  In case of some kind of failure/disaster, I'd hate to be on the hook for $299. Any tips for opening the box *without* voiding the warranty?


----------



## Shagger

It looks like there is the SATA power connector in there, I wonder if it would be good to split that and run a fan connector in there to cool the HD further...


----------



## richsadams

Shagger said:


> One small hitch in my plan, I am planning on getting the Tivo deal for a free Premiere and pay $19.99 for the service. I'd have 30 days for satisfaction guaranteed, but cracking open the Tivo will void the warranty I am assuming.  In case of some kind of failure/disaster, I'd hate to be on the hook for $299. Any tips for opening the box *without* voiding the warranty?


Yes, opening the case does void the warranty. Once upon a time TiVo had one of those little foil stickers wrapped around the case and the back of the box that would be destroyed if the case were opened. They gave up on that years ago though. TiVo modding is a known but never acknowledged activity with TiVo. There have only been a couple of reported instances where TiVo denied warranty service due to an upgrade (as long as the box was returned in original condition) over the years.

If you were to upgrade the hard drive TiVo can verify that if they look at their logs. Odds are remote that they would do that though.

If you keep the original hard drive on the shelf you can slip it back in and no one will be the wiser unless you leave half of your PB&J sandwich inside or have a code of ethics that requires you to confess everything you've ever done to anyone that will listen. 

In other words, there s/b nothing to worry about. That said, if it were me I wouldn't upgrade it until you're certain that it's working properly. It's recommended that anyone operate a new TiVo for 30 days or so to be sure it's going to be okay. Most problems with CE products show up very quickly, but a little "burn-in" time doesn't hurt. YMMV of course.


----------



## richsadams

Shagger said:


> It looks like there is the SATA power connector in there, I wonder if it would be good to split that and run a fan connector in there to cool the HD further...


IMO you don't have anything to worry about. A number of reports here and elsewhere (with both Premiere, TiVo HD and Series3 upgrades) indicate that the larger hard drives aren't raising TiVo's ambient temperature more than a couple of degrees if at all. (The temperature can be viewed on TiVo's System Information screen at any time). If you avoid high-speed drives (a la, WD Black series or any gaming HDD) you s/b fine. The recommended WD GP and GP AV drives run quite cool and quiet.


----------



## Shagger

Well I had wanted to upgrade BEFORE I filled it up with recordings so the transfer went quicker. I suppose I should be patient and wait...


----------



## RichB

Shagger said:


> One small hitch in my plan, I am planning on getting the Tivo deal for a free Premiere and pay $19.99 for the service. I'd have 30 days for satisfaction guaranteed, but cracking open the Tivo will void the warranty I am assuming.  In case of some kind of failure/disaster, I'd hate to be on the hook for $299. Any tips for opening the box *without* voiding the warranty?


Save your disk and take care to not dent or scratch anything.
There is no seal that indicates that is was opened.
If unit fails, you first try the original disk, if it boots re-upgrade.
If not leave the original in and send it in that way.

- Rich


----------



## RichB

richsadams said:


> IMO you don't have anything to worry about. A number of reports here and elsewhere (with both Premiere, TiVo HD and Series3 upgrades) indicate that the larger hard drives aren't raising TiVo's ambient temperature more than a couple of degrees if at all. (The temperature can be viewed on TiVo's System Information screen at any time). If you avoid high-speed drives (a la, WD Black series or any gaming HDD) you s/b fine. The recommended WD GP and GP AV drives run quite cool and quiet.


It looked like a 50MMx25MM fan to me so I bought a couple.
My new Premiere fan is much quieter so it could be different fan and a defective one.

I will report back later.

- Rich


----------



## Shagger

richsadams said:


> IMO you don't have anything to worry about. A number of reports here and elsewhere (with both Premiere, TiVo HD and Series3 upgrades) indicate that the larger hard drives aren't raising TiVo's ambient temperature more than a couple of degrees if at all. (The temperature can be viewed on TiVo's System Information screen at any time). If you avoid high-speed drives (a la, WD Black series or any gaming HDD) you s/b fine. The recommended WD GP and GP AV drives run quite cool and quiet.


The drive speed can be 5400 rpm or should it be 7200?


----------



## richsadams

Shagger said:


> The drive speed can be 5400 rpm or should it be 7200?


TiVo OEM drives are 5400 RPM. They require nothing faster than and there's no performance enhancement with anything more.


----------



## comer

cap said:


> Trying the cd now. Great job on this comer. I like how you worded it to explicity explain very clearly what you are doing.
> 
> I can't wait to fire the new upgraded TiVo up.


Glad you liked it! :up: I wish more people would test the process


----------



## comer

Shagger said:


> Well I had wanted to upgrade BEFORE I filled it up with recordings so the transfer went quicker. I suppose I should be patient and wait...


You don't miss anything  The upgrade time does not depend on recordings. The longest portion is copying data from one disk to another - it will be the same 320G regardless.


----------



## Shagger

comer said:


> You don't miss anything  The upgrade time does not depend on recordings. The longest portion is copying data from one disk to another - it will be the same 320G regardless.


But if the 320GB is empty, it still copies it over? Is that so it is a perfect clone of the original drive?


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> I wish more people would test the process


Why do I keep feeling this subtle elbow in my ribs?


----------



## comer

Shagger said:


> Is that so it is a perfect clone of the original drive?


Yep  Basically, it's much harder (and thus error-prone) to analyze the drive and intelligently copy only used blocks, than to fire-and-forget a copy process for 2 hours


----------



## Shagger

richsadams said:


> IMO you don't have anything to worry about. A number of reports here and elsewhere (with both Premiere, TiVo HD and Series3 upgrades) indicate that the larger hard drives aren't raising TiVo's ambient temperature more than a couple of degrees if at all. (The temperature can be viewed on TiVo's System Information screen at any time). If you avoid high-speed drives (a la, WD Black series or any gaming HDD) you s/b fine. The recommended WD GP and GP AV drives run quite cool and quiet.


Even if the ambient Tivo case temp's don't rise that doesn't mean that the drive temp isn't elevated. Regardless, I always like to have a fan blowing directly on any drives I have in my computer cases. Gives me a little better piece of mind. Looks like this will do the trick: http://www.pchcables.com/3pinfeto23pi3.html


----------



## comer

Shagger said:


> Looks like this will do the trick: http://www.pchcables.com/3pinfeto23pi3.html


And hope that motherboard is powerfull enough to drive the double load on the fan header 
I would solder to PS directly.


----------



## cap

comer said:


> Glad you liked it! :up: I wish more people would test the process


Looks like my upgrade is complete. Took between 2 1/2 and 4 hours to do the copy and upgrade. Very slick and easy.

I almost feel like a cheater doing it this way. I had just installed CentOS before you created the cd.

The cd method was INCREDIBLY easy. The only think easier is getting it preloaded.

The bootup process seemed to take a bit longer than I thought. Once it was done loading then the screen was black for longer than I thought. I even checked the HDMI to make sure I plugged it in.
After that there was also a delay playing shows. Probably just an adjustment period, but I'll keep an eye on it.

At any rate thanks for all the work comer. I'll see what I can do about that beer.


----------



## orangeboy

Shagger said:


> Even if the ambient Tivo case temp's don't rise that doesn't mean that the drive temp isn't elevated. Regardless, I always like to have a fan blowing directly on any drives I have in my computer cases. Gives me a little better piece of mind. Looks like this will do the trick: http://www.pchcables.com/3pinfeto23pi3.html


I always thought the idea was to pull the heat away from components, not blow air onto them...


----------



## rdangel

tcfcameron said:


> I'm not accusing anybody of anything intentional. But, I would not recommend sending an email address that isn't a burn account. I thought I'd be emailed back a link to a hosting site, but was instead emailed by the hosting site directly.
> 
> Since I sacrificed a spam free account for the cause, I tried to download the file. 72k download speed on a huge file. No thanks.


I took your suggestions and posted the image to my mobileme account. I believe I PM'ed you the link. If anyone else wants to try the image, let me know via PM and I will send you the link.


----------



## cr33p

tcfcameron said:


> I'm not accusing anybody of anything intentional. But, I would not recommend sending an email address that isn't a burn account. I thought I'd be emailed back a link to a hosting site, but was instead emailed by the hosting site directly.
> 
> Since I sacrificed a spam free account for the cause, I tried to download the file. 72k download speed on a huge file. No thanks.


I downloaded a copy today, didnt have to volunteer any important info, will test this weekend


----------



## rdangel

cr33p said:


> I downloaded a copy today, didnt have to volunteer any important info, will test this weekend


Thanks! Keep me posted!


----------



## Shagger

orangeboy said:


> I always thought the idea was to pull the heat away from components, not blow air onto them...


In the computers I build I have a fan taking cool outside air and blowing that onto the drives. If you have a equivalent or larger exhaust fan then the excess hot air is pulled out of the case. I usually have 2 - 120mm fans sucking in and 2 blowing out.

It's like I tell the wife, you want to balance out all the blowing and sucking...


----------



## bsmith1051

Shagger said:


> It's like I tell the wife, you want to balance out all the blowing and sucking...


That's an interesting... USER ID you've got there!


----------



## jaredmwright

Used comer's Live Boot CD and upgraded my new Premiere to 1TB with a Seagate drive I already had available. Took about 2 hours to copy and expand. No issues, other than missing some of the extra space that winMFS supersize gave me on my older TiVo Series 3. Looks like about 12GB is available that is not being used compared to my other 1TB HD I upgraded. Maybe in the future I will go up to 2TB once prices drop further.

Thanks again, some money for beer is on its way!


----------



## Bai Shen

comer said:


> Glad you liked it! :up: I wish more people would test the process


Plannin' on it soon as I get a chance to pick one up. This Comcast DVR is horrible!


----------



## aaronwt

Shagger said:


> In the computers I build I have a fan taking cool outside air and blowing that onto the drives. If you have a equivalent or larger exhaust fan then the excess hot air is pulled out of the case. I usually have 2 - 120mm fans sucking in and 2 blowing out.
> 
> It's like I tell the wife, you want to balance out all the blowing and sucking...


I like the 200mm to 230mm fans in my PC cases now. They are very quiet since they are large and don't need to spin very fast and also move alot of air for cooling.


----------



## Bai Shen

aaronwt said:


> I like the 200mm to 230mm fans in my PC cases now. They are very quiet since they are large and don't need to spin very fast and also move alot of air for cooling.


What case uses those?


----------



## turbobozz

Bai Shen said:


> What case uses those?


Antec 900 uses a 200mm


----------



## Bai Shen

turbobozz said:


> Antec 900 uses a 200mm


-looks over at his Antec Nine Hundred- 

He commented on 230mm fans and implied multiples of the 200-230mm sizes. The Antec case only has one 200mm.


----------



## Shagger

Bai Shen said:


> -looks over at his Antec Nine Hundred-
> 
> He commented on 230mm fans and implied multiples of the 200-230mm sizes. The Antec case only has one 200mm.


Maybe we start an Antec Nine Hundred thread because I LOVE mine.  It does need a new X6 Phenom in there however...


----------



## turbobozz

Bai Shen said:


> -looks over at his Antec Nine Hundred-
> 
> He commented on 230mm fans and implied multiples of the 200-230mm sizes. The Antec case only has one 200mm.


Thermaltake cases maybe?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133074
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133100


----------



## aaronwt

turbobozz said:


> Thermaltake cases maybe?
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133074
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133100


:up:


----------



## Bai Shen

turbobozz said:


> Thermaltake cases maybe?
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133074
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133100


Interesting.


----------



## richsadams

The popular 2TB WD20EARS is on sale at Dell for $94.99 w/free shipping&#8230;

http://dell.to/bmW3pA

FWIW the 1TB model is also on sale for $54.99 w/free shipping&#8230;

http://dell.to/aHn6sF


----------



## Shagger

richsadams said:


> The popular 2TB WD20EARS is on sale at Dell for $94.99 w/free shipping
> 
> http://dell.to/bmW3pA
> 
> FWIW the 1TB model is also on sale for $54.99 w/free shipping
> 
> http://dell.to/aHn6sF


2TB model on its way - thanks!


----------



## akaussie

Hey All - my Premiere is on the way and should be here on Monday. I'm looking for advice as to whether I wait a little while before upgrading the hard drive, or if I just do it right away?
Obviously downside to upgrading straight away will be the loss of the warranty.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## richsadams

akaussie said:


> Hey All - my Premiere is on the way and should be here on Monday. I'm looking for advice as to whether I wait a little while before upgrading the hard drive, or if I just do it right away?
> Obviously downside to upgrading straight away will be the loss of the warranty.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


See my response to more-or-less the same question a few days ago

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8147281#post8147281

Enjoy your new TiVo!


----------



## akaussie

richsadams said:


> See my response to more-or-less the same question a few days ago
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8147281#post8147281
> 
> Enjoy your new TiVo!


Thanks Rich! I'm actually just up the road from you in Multnomah Village/SW PDX. 
Your advice sounds good to me and was along the lines I was thinking.
-Bill


----------



## rdangel

Can anyone recommend a free way to share or transfer my 2gb image? MobileMe isn't cutting it and some have a problem with me using a file transfer service.thx


----------



## richsadams

rdangel said:


> Can anyone recommend a free way to share or transfer my 2gb image? MobileMe isn't cutting it and some have a problem with me using a file transfer service.thx


MediaFire

http://www.mediafire.com/


----------



## richsadams

akaussie said:


> Thanks Rich! I'm actually just up the road from you in Multnomah Village/SW PDX.
> Your advice sounds good to me and was along the lines I was thinking.
> -Bill


Small worldthere are actually quite a few of us from the NW here. So you're in good to questionable company.


----------



## tgrim1

I think that if you replaced it right away, and later put the original back in it and sent it back, wouldn't they notice that it hasn't received any updates?


----------



## comer

tgrim1 said:


> I think that if you replaced it right away, and later put the original back in it and sent it back, wouldn't they notice that it hasn't received any updates?


Tivo knows that you put a new disk to begin with  It's connected to the net. So point is moot when you do it the second time. But point is also that Tivo has not prosecuted anybody for just replacing the disk, yet. Call it "gray area".


----------



## Shagger

My Tivo Premiere is coming today, but I was going to go hold off on the 2TB upgrade until after I am sure that the family is happy with it. I have Comcast coming out on Monday for the Cablecard install. Is it better to do the drive upgrade AFTER the cable card install or before?


----------



## comer

Shagger said:


> My Tivo Premiere is coming today, but I was going to go hold off on the 2TB upgrade until after I am sure that the family is happy with it. I have Comcast coming out on Monday for the Cablecard install. Is it better to do the drive upgrade AFTER the cable card install or before?


Pretty much the same question: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8146297#post8146297
In short - after


----------



## Mike Wolf

bkdtv said:


> From the sticky at the top of the forum:


Why not just crack open the dvr expander, and pop in a larger TB AV hard drive?


----------



## Shagger

comer said:


> Pretty much the same question: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8146297#post8146297
> In short - after


In the words of Montgomery Burns, "Excellent!"


----------



## richsadams

Mike Wolf said:


> Why not just crack open the dvr expander, and pop in a larger TB AV hard drive?


 If you mean open a WD My DVR Expander and swap in a different hard drive it won't work as TiVo recognizes "authorized" hard drives by the exact hard drive model number (the enclosure really doesn't make any difference). The current WD My DVR Expanders are 1TB so maybe you meant 2TB? To add to that, based on numerous posts elsewhere, opening the DVR Expander's case generally ruins it. Anyway a nice thought, but a non-starter.


----------



## rdangel

richsadams said:


> MediaFire
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/


Unfortunately the free mediafire maxes out at 200MB. Anyone have an account where I can put a 2GB image file?


----------



## richsadams

rdangel said:


> Unfortunately the free mediafire maxes out at 200MB. Anyone have an account where I can put a 2GB image file?


Forgot about that w/the freebie account.


----------



## comer

rdangel said:


> Unfortunately the free mediafire maxes out at 200MB. Anyone have an account where I can put a 2GB image file?


You can break your file in pieces, with RAR for example.
There's filehosting.org with no size limit, but also requires email to send a download link.
Also check here The 5 Best Free File Hosting Services To Store Your Files


----------



## richsadams

Mike Wolf said:


> That doesn't really make any sense, you say that TiVo recigizes the exact hard drive model number, in what way? Hard drive model number for the internal drive, or of the exapander drive, because the expander drive model number is identical to the retail internal drive on store shelves. I'm pretty sure TiVo doesn't have a master list of every single DVR expander hard drive sold by western digital to authentication.
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=615 This is the exact same hard drive found in both the My DVR expander drive and the My Book AV DVR expander.


 I think we're talking about two different things. If you're suggesting simply opening a WD My DVR Expander, removing the hard drive and inserting it inside a TiVo Premiere (or any other TiVo for that matter) that would work providing you went through the upgrade process prior to that as of course there's no OS on the expansion drive and it would be treated as a blank/new drive.

With respect to TiVo's hard drives, no TiVo does not "recognize" internal drives as such. However, yes, TiVo does in fact recognize external hard drives by their model number and will only accept the "approved" My DVR Expander and the My DVR AV Expander series. The eSATA drives are identified by TiVo's software. That's why you cannot connect any other eSATA drive to a TiVo HD, HDXL, Premiere or Premiere XL via plug and play _except_ the approved WD My DVR Expander line. They are purposefully limited to avoid support issues. In other words, if you were to put an off the shelf drive in any enclosure (including the WD My DVR Expander enclosure) and connected it to anything other than the original TiVo Series3 it would not function. The only way that can be accomplished is to pull the TiVo OEM drive and connect it to a computer along with the additional drive and marry them using the MFSLive program.

Additional information about expansion drives, upgrades, etc. can be found in this FAQ:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160.



Mike Wolf said:


> When I said crack it open and put in a larger capacity TB drive, I was referring to the 2TB drive I just linked you to.
> 
> Don't know how one could ruin it if its known how to take the case off and not touch anything inside.


I was referring to the damage caused when you crack open a WD MY DVR Expander enclosure, not a TiVo of course.



Mike Wolf said:


> Does anyone actually know the exact hard drive used in the TiVo Premiere and Premiere XL? By which I mean model number and brand?


Yes, the TiVo Premiere uses the WD320AVVS and the Premiere XL uses the WD10EVVS.

Although it's not conveniently in one place, all of the info you're looking for can usually be found on the TCF using the search function.


----------



## jaredmwright

You could utilize something like HFS if you are comfortable setting up port forwarding. I use it and it is quite simple and very powerful. You simply run the executable and set up the folder you want to share with permissions and users . It might take 5 minutes at most to setup.

http://www.rejetto.com/hfs/?f=intro


----------



## Mike Wolf

rich your model numbers don't match up to WD's site. Please check the numbers.


----------



## richsadams

Mike Wolf said:


> rich your model numbers don't match up to WD's site. Please check the numbers.


I have no idea what you're talking about&#8230;again. The model numbers of what, the hard drives in TiVo's? Those hard drive numbers listed in my earlier post are the hard drive model numbers with which those particular TiVo's were built. There's nothing for me to check, I have the TiVo's in front of me.  You're going to have to do a better job of clarifying your posts.


----------



## Mike Wolf

richsadams said:


> I have no idea what you're talking aboutagain. The model numbers of what, the hard drives in TiVo's? Those hard drive numbers listed in my earlier post are the hard drive model numbers with which those particular TiVo's were built. There's nothing for me to check, I have the TiVo's in front of me.  You're going to have to do a better job of clarifying your posts.


You posted the model numbers of the hard drives, and listed them by series. I put them into a search on western digital's site, and they came up as invalid. I then did a search for them online, and they also came up as invalid. I don't know why you mention having a TiVo in front of you unless you opened it and are reading off the model number of the drive.


----------



## comer

Let's not split hairs, shall we? 
For the sake of clarity:
XL: WD10EVVS
vulgaris: WD3200AVVS


----------



## richsadams

Mike Wolf said:


> You posted the model numbers of the hard drives, and listed them by series. I put them into a search on western digital's site, and they came up as invalid. I then did a search for them online, and they also came up as invalid. I don't know why you mention having a TiVo in front of you unless you opened it and are reading off the model number of the drive.


Some of these drives are not on WD's site because they were never available to the public. As a matter of fact, yes I do in fact have them in front of me&#8230;and so do thousands of others here and yes we are in fact reading the model number off of the drive.

FWIW, and I don't know why I waste my time on these things, but I just did a Google search for every drive TiVo uses (as listed on this post) and found every single one of them. I also did your homework for you by linking every drive to a website where it can be purchased. You can thank me later.

Or it's all a big conspiracy to lie to newbies so they can't get into the club.


----------



## EdH

jaredmwright said:


> You could utilize something like HFS...
> http://www.rejetto.com/hfs/?f=intro


That looked interesting so I installed it and, so far, I like it.

But I can't get to the forum at http://www.rejetto.com/forum/index.php?action=register

There's a register button there but it doesn't do anything. Are you able to get in?

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## keenanSR

rdangel said:


> Can anyone recommend a free way to share or transfer my 2gb image? MobileMe isn't cutting it and some have a problem with me using a file transfer service.thx


If you're familiar with bit-torrent usage that's an extremely easy way to transfer large files.


----------



## dvr_dude

richsadams said:


> ...
> FWIW, and I don't know why I waste my time on these things, but I just did a Google search for every drive TiVo uses (as listed on this post) and found every single one of them. I also did your homework for you by linking every drive to a website where it can be purchased. You can thank me later.
> 
> Or it's all a big conspiracy to lie to newbies so they can't get into the club.


Perhaps it would eliminate some confusion if you fixed the model number in your original post:


richsadams said:


> ...
> TiVo Premiere = WD320AVVS
> ...


The actual model number is WD320*0*AVVS.


----------



## richsadams

dvr_dude said:


> Perhaps it would eliminate some confusion if you fixed the model number in your original post:
> 
> The actual model number is WD320*0*AVVS.


Good catchalthough the link was to the correct drive. Thanks.


----------



## dvr_dude

richsadams said:


> Good catchalthough the link was to the correct drive. Thanks.


True, but the links weren't there originally, and when someone politely asked you to check them, you responded with this fairly harsh reply:


richsadams said:


> I have no idea what you're talking aboutagain. The model numbers of what, the hard drives in TiVo's? Those hard drive numbers listed in my earlier post are the hard drive model numbers with which those particular TiVo's were built. There's nothing for me to check, I have the TiVo's in front of me.  You're going to have to do a better job of clarifying your posts.


Perhaps we could all use a review of forum decorum?


----------



## richsadams

dvr_dude said:


> True, but the links weren't there originally, and when someone politely asked you to check them, you responded with this fairly harsh reply: Perhaps we could all use a review of forum decorum?


My reply may sound harsh in a vacuum, but if you take the time to read the rest of the OP's posts&#8230;including identical questions cross posted on three different threads, plus the many additional incomplete and incorrect posts he made you'd have the actual context of the situation leading to the answer that I gave. You should also read my earlier responses to the OP wherein I feel that I took an inordinate amount of time to guide someone that had only been on this forum a few days toward becoming a valued part of the community&#8230;advice that was ignored for the most part.


----------



## zordude

Any specific drives to look for/avoid as far as WD Green/Black/AV for upgrading a Premiere? Do you still need to do the Intellipark fix for drives going into a Premiere?

Z


----------



## richsadams

zordude said:


> Any specific drives to look for/avoid as far as WD Green/Black/AV for upgrading a Premiere? Do you still need to do the Intellipark fix for drives going into a Premiere?
> 
> Z


See my answer to a similar question from a few pages back...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8146832#post8146832

Adjusting the Intellipark feature on WD drives depends on the manufacture date. Based on numerous posts it appears that drives manufactured after the first week of August or so no longer require it. So it really depends on the drive.

Here's more information on an "automated" process for the Premiers...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

Happy upgrading!


----------



## zordude

Thanks Richsadams, I actually did look but didn't see your earlier post, it wasn't even that far back 

I will probably do as you suggest, the price is not all that much more.

Z


----------



## richsadams

zordude said:


> I will probably do as you suggest, the price is not all that much more.
> 
> Z


That was kind of my take on it. Thanks to TCF member Comer the whole process is almost turn-key. :up:

If you find time, can you post the manufacture date of the hard drive you receive and if you had to adjust the Intellipark feature? TIA.


----------



## akaussie

richsadams said:


> That was kind of my take on it. Thanks to TCF member Comer the whole process is almost turn-key. :up:
> 
> If you find time, can you post the manufacture date of the hard drive you receive and if you had to adjust the Intellipark feature? TIA.


As an FYI, the 2TB Western Digital WD20EARS Caviar Green Desktop Hard Drive is on sale from Amazon for $92.99
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1285601069&sr=1-1

I ordered one from Dell over the weekend, should be here this week and I'll give Comer's process a try.
I am hoping nothing needs to be done regarding the Intellipark. Reading past posts it sounds like it cannot changed/disabled using sata to usb connections, so I'm out of luck there. Fingers are crossed it won't be an issue. Once I've upgraded the drive, if I'm able to reboot at least once without issue, I should be in the clear, correct?
From reading other posts it doesn't sound like it hasn't been a problem, hoping it continues for me.
I'll report back with drive manufacture date, etc once everything is done.


----------



## orangeboy

A bit off-topic question for you Mr. Adams:
Do you know the System partition sizes for the various TiVo models, or at least the models you've dealt with? Having those sizes would go a long way for kmttg users that want to accurately determine the size to input into the pie chart feature. I'm thinking that (total harddrive size) - (system partition size) = (size to input into kmttg).

You seem to have a pretty good grasp of harddrive replacement, so I figured I'd ask!


----------



## hotoru

I am having trouble with the download link
http://www.mediafire.com/?znr8p1h4uyn1v
Tried in three different browsers. Chrome and Firefox just seems to ignore, Safari says unable to decompress file. Anyone used the link lately? A trick I am missing?
Thanks,



cap said:


> Trying the cd now. Great job on this comer. I like how you worded it to explicity explain very clearly what you are doing.
> 
> I can't wait to fire the new upgraded TiVo up.


----------



## RichB

akaussie said:


> As an FYI, the 2TB Western Digital WD20EARS Caviar Green Desktop Hard Drive is on sale from Amazon for $92.99
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1285601069&sr=1-1
> 
> I ordered one from Dell over the weekend, should be here this week and I'll give Comer's process a try.
> I am hoping nothing needs to be done regarding the Intellipark. Reading past posts it sounds like it cannot changed/disabled using sata to usb connections, so I'm out of luck there. Fingers are crossed it won't be an issue. Once I've upgraded the drive, if I'm able to reboot at least once without issue, I should be in the clear, correct?
> From reading other posts it doesn't sound like it hasn't been a problem, hoping it continues for me.
> I'll report back with drive manufacture date, etc once everything is done.


I have upgraded with this drive and soft rebooted a few times with no issues.
It is buttoned up so I do not know the build date.

- Rich


----------



## comer

hotoru said:


> I am having trouble with the download link
> http://www.mediafire.com/?znr8p1h4uyn1v
> Tried in three different browsers. Chrome and Firefox just seems to ignore, Safari says unable to decompress file. Anyone used the link lately? A trick I am missing?
> Thanks,


Just tried it in FF. Works fine 
Do you get an error message? How exactly does it not work?


----------



## jbell73

akaussie said:


> As an FYI, the 2TB Western Digital WD20EARS Caviar Green Desktop Hard Drive is on sale from Amazon for $92.99
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1285601069&sr=1-1


Thanks for pointing that out! I had just received my Amazon order @ 109.99 with free 2-day prime shipping. A quick inquiry to customer service, and they have refunded me the $17 price difference!

These things are getting cheap! Makes me regret going with 1TB in my first Premiere.

My 2TB Upgrade worked flawlessly from the stock 320GB drive, but when I first tried to expand my 1TB "DVR_Dude" drive (in an effort to maintain the MFSSuperSize option on that drive for 317 Hrs of HD) the drive booted up complaining that I had removed external storage, and it needed to be reconfigured, and then after a couple of reboots still complained about system errors, and only saw 157 Hrs (original 1TB drive size).

All in all, lesson learned, follow processes that have been proven to work, if you venture off the path you may just end up wasting your time.

-Jeff


----------



## aaronwt

I thought Amazon stopped pricematching except for preordrers?


----------



## comer

jbell73 said:


> My 2TB Upgrade worked flawlessly from the stock 320GB drive, but when I first tried to expand my 1TB "DVR_Dude" drive (in an effort to maintain the MFSSuperSize option on that drive for 317 Hrs of HD) the drive booted up complaining that I had removed external storage, and it needed to be reconfigured, and then after a couple of reboots still complained about system errors, and only saw 157 Hrs (original 1TB drive size).


Ha! Bullseye! :up: This just proves that those drives use the same technique jmfs does - an extra partition and not the real resize (as it would come from the factory)  So when you tried adding another one - it did not sit well with Tivo  Which also means those drives are limited to 2T in principle.


----------



## jbell73

I just called and asked. I could have just as easily ordered a new one, and returned the new drive on the old order, but this saves everyone a lot of hassle.

Maybe because of the Prime membership?


----------



## aaronwt

comer said:


> Ha! Bullseye! :up: This just proves that those drives use the same technique jmfs does - an extra partition and not the real resize (as it would come from the factory)  So when you tried adding another one - it did not sit well with Tivo  Which also means those drives are limited to 2T in principle.


Has anyone tried a 3TB drive yet?


----------



## hotoru

comer said:


> Just tried it in FF. Works fine
> Do you get an error message? How exactly does it not work?


I finally downloaded file. I was getting yellow box that said "Click here to download file". When I clicked I would initially get a d/l statusbar at bottom for 1-2 sec then would go away. Steps I tried included, disabled adblock, disabled flash block, signed up for account at mediafire. None of those seem to work. Lastly I saved the file to my own mediafire page then clicked that link. That seemed to work... strange.
thanks for help.


----------



## comer

aaronwt said:


> Has anyone tried a 3TB drive yet?


I haven't. Theoretically, it should work, but up to 2.3T only.


----------



## comer

aaronwt said:


> Has anyone tried a 3TB drive yet?


*Bill McNeal* brought a very good point. What about extending TP-XL drives?

Tha answer is - depending on XL drive layout.

Tivo partition is limited in size by 0xFFFFFFFF * 512 = 2T. The only available process right now is to create an additional partition. So maximum additional space that can be *gained* is 2T.

I haven't been able to get my hand on an image or "mfslayout" printout (that'd be enough to understand). If the factory partitions are large (0.5T each) - than yes, +2T gives total of 3T.
If it's an additional partition on top of non-XL 320G disk (what jmfs and probably DVR_Dude do) - then no.


----------



## Shagger

UGH - Well I ordered my 2TB drive from Dell and received it today. I specifically stayed away from Newegg since everyone says their 'free shipping' is AWFUL. But the Dell shipping was just the drive box in a larger box. NO F***ING PADDING WHATSOEVER! It was probly rattling around in there all the way from Tennessee. Crap, that blows. Well, I guess I will wait and install it this weekend to see if it even boots. On the upside my cable card install was long but successful.


----------



## txporter

aaronwt said:


> I thought Amazon stopped pricematching except for preordrers?


I ordered a WD20EARS from Amazon last Thursday for $109.99. I tried getting the difference refunded over chat just a few minutes ago with no success. I then called customer service and they said that they are allowed to price match once for an account. I went ahead and did it although I guess I might have been able to save more on a different purchase later. /shrug


----------



## comer

Shagger said:


> NO F***ING PADDING WHATSOEVER! It was probly rattling around in there all the way from Tennessee. Crap, that blows. Well, I guess I will wait and install it this weekend to see if it even boots.


Meanwhile you could run WD diagnostic tool on it to make sure it's ok before you begin


----------



## Shagger

comer said:


> Meanwhile you could run WD diagnostic tool on it to make sure it's ok before you begin


Yep - doing that now. One more small hiccup - the manufacturer date is Jun 2010. Do I need to disable the Intellipark, and if so, how do I do that?


----------



## comer

Shagger said:


> Yep - doing that now. One more small hiccup - the manufacturer date is Jun 2010. Do I need to disable the Intellipark, and if so, how do I do that?


Using a utility from WD: wdidle3
About parameters see here.


----------



## jbell73

Shagger said:


> ... On the upside my cable card install was long but successful.


Really? My Cable Card experiences with Cox Communications have been phenomenal recently. Last visit was maybe 3-5 minutes pop in the M-Card, quick call to their service depot, and then the Cable guy was on his way.

No problems. Original Series 3 and HD took a little longer, but these Premiere's have really just been 5 minute visits.

Maybe I'm lucky, or they are finally figuring the process out.

-JBell73


----------



## jbell73

comer said:


> Using a utility from WD: wdidle3
> About parameters see here.


My recommendation: Use /S:0 it will then list the feature as disabled. If you use /D it sets it to something like 16 minutes, but it's not truly disabled.

-JBell73


----------



## tcfcameron

Post retracted due to NDA and other contractual obligations.


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> I have saved copies of all the MFSinfo data for every TiVo HD hard drive I have ever imaged, including stock and the Broflovski image. I'm assuming that is the "mfslayout" data you speak of, since it is all about the layout. I know it's not from a Premiere, but would it help?


Well, I won't be 100% sure until I examine TP-XL layout  May be *richsadams* could get a snapshot of mfslayout on his XL drive soon? 
Though I think HD-XL should be the same. Do you have that image?


----------



## tcfcameron

Post retracted due to NDA and other contractual obligations.


----------



## richsadams

orangeboy said:


> A bit off-topic question for you Mr. Adams:
> Do you know the System partition sizes for the various TiVo models, or at least the models you've dealt with? Having those sizes would go a long way for kmttg users that want to accurately determine the size to input into the pie chart feature. I'm thinking that (total harddrive size) - (system partition size) = (size to input into kmttg).
> 
> You seem to have a pretty good grasp of harddrive replacement, so I figured I'd ask!


Wish I could help you out, but I haven't used MFSlive for a very long time, so I've paid zero attention. A PM to bkdtv might get you the info you need. If not I'm sure Spike at MFSlive.org has the knowledge if you can squeeze it out of him.  Or one if the gurus here may come to the rescue.

Best of luck!


----------



## richsadams

RichB said:


> I have upgraded with this drive and soft rebooted a few times with no issues.
> It is buttoned up so I do not know the build date.
> 
> - Rich


Oh, c'mon Rich...it's only four screws...oh wait, the drive is mounted upside down too...well, can't blame you. . Glad you're enjoying your "new" TiVo!


----------



## hotoru

comer said:


> Using a utility from WD: wdidle3
> About parameters see here.


Was thinking of the WD20EARS from Amazon but doesnt look like would be too easy to do this on a mac. I have an older windows XP and a Ubuntu laptops. I should be able to put drive in a external enclosure and flash firmware via USB on the windows laptop? Or should I stick with WD20EVDS? Is it worth the extra $35?
TIA


----------



## RichB

richsadams said:


> Oh, c'mon Rich...it's only four screws...oh wait, the drive is mounted upside down too...well, can't blame you. . Glad you're enjoying your "new" TiVo!


I am trying out some new fans in the next few days and then I will get off my duff and get the information 

- Rich


----------



## alex50

I am looking to replace my premiere's fan as well. Please let us know what replacement you wind up using. If you know the type of fan we should be using (is it 70mm? what depth? tail?), please do post. Thanks.



RichB said:


> I am trying out some new fans in the next few days and then I will get off my duff and get the information
> 
> - Rich


----------



## orangeboy

richsadams said:


> Wish I could help you out, but I haven't used MFSlive for a very long time, so I've paid zero attention. A PM to bkdtv might get you the info you need. If not I'm sure Spike at MFSlive.org has the knowledge if you can squeeze it out of him.  Or one if the gurus here may come to the rescue.
> 
> Best of luck!


Thank you sir!
I was thinking that one of the harddrive upgrade providers would have the info readily available, but PMs to them have so far gone unanswered. I'll head over to MFSLive.org and try there, as well as giving bkdtv a PM.


----------



## RichB

alex50 said:


> I am looking to replace my premiere's fan as well. Please let us know what replacement you wind up using. If you know the type of fan we should be using (is it 70mm? what depth? tail?), please do post. Thanks.


The stock fan is a cofan 50mmx25mm. I cannot find that fan.
It seems to have increased the noise level. It now has a clicking sound.
My other Premieres are much quieter.

The fan uses a two pin connector but you can use a 3 pin fan.

- Rich


----------



## Shagger

jbell73 said:


> Really? My Cable Card experiences with Cox Communications have been phenomenal recently. Last visit was maybe 3-5 minutes pop in the M-Card, quick call to their service depot, and then the Cable guy was on his way.
> 
> No problems. Original Series 3 and HD took a little longer, but these Premiere's have really just been 5 minute visits.
> 
> Maybe I'm lucky, or they are finally figuring the process out.
> 
> -JBell73


Hmmm - well, I think you already nailed it when you uttered *"Cox Communications".*  Comcast is not nearly as skilled at the 'headend' IMO. My installer was up to speed, but either they borked the set up of the 1st cable card or it was bad, since we went through 2. They finally figured it out upstream and all was well.


----------



## Bai Shen

Shagger said:


> Hmmm - well, I think you already nailed it when you uttered *"Cox Communications".*  Comcast is not nearly as skilled at the 'headend' IMO. My installer was up to speed, but either they borked the set up of the 1st cable card or it was bad, since we went through 2. They finally figured it out upstream and all was well.


Yeah. I never thought I would utter the words "I miss Cox Communications", but Comcast has me doing that almost weekly.


----------



## zordude

richsadams said:


> If you find time, can you post the manufacture date of the hard drive you receive and if you had to adjust the Intellipark feature? TIA.


Drive is here, 2TB AV-GP. Manufacture date Aug 5 2010.

How do I test if I need intellipark? Just do the Comer CD, then after it boots up try to initiate a software "Restart the TiVo DVR" ?

Z


----------



## comer

zordude said:


> Drive is here, 2TB AV-GP. Manufacture date Aug 5 2010.
> 
> How do I test if I need intellipark? Just do the Comer CD, then after it boots up try to initiate a software "Restart the TiVo DVR" ?
> 
> Z


Yes. I would suggest disabling IntelliPark even if it does not hang. On some drives IntelliPark causes Load Cycle Count to increase rapidly beyond warranty threshold. It should have been fixed in firmware by WD, but I think it's safer to just disable it. For details see here: WD and Seagate take steps to fix terabyte drives and the thread it points to.


----------



## hotoru

comer said:


> Yes. I would suggest disabling IntelliPark even if it does not hang. On some drives IntelliPark causes Load Cycle Count to increase rapidly beyond warranty threshold. It should have been fixed in firmware by WD.....


 Does the WD20EVDS have the intellipark "feature"? I do not see it listed in product description.


----------



## comer

hotoru said:


> Does the WD20EVDS have the intellipark "feature"? I do not see it listed in product description.


From WD:


> *Reduced Power Consumption* - WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to competitors' drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek, IntelliPark, and IntelliPower technologies.


----------



## cr33p

Comer
I just upgraded a friends premiere used the new iso disc you set up, awesome work btw. Anyhow, so I copied the drive, expanded, ran guided set up, ran a c&d everything, re ran guided set up, all seems well, tunes, sets up season passes, but wont record? Heard of any issues like this yet?


----------



## comer

cr33p said:


> Comer
> I just upgraded a friends premiere used the new iso disc you set up, awesome work btw. Anyhow, so I copied the drive, expanded, ran guided set up, ran a c&d everything, re ran guided set up, all seems well, tunes, sets up season passes, but wont record? Heard of any issues like this yet?


So how many times did you expand? I counted 3 
I've had some issues like that myself with earlier versions (i.e. during testing) when I created 2 partitions instead of 1. My Tivo actually tried to record, but "hang" in recording state - it showed that two shows are been recorded, but did it forever, never ended and those shows could not be played.


----------



## hotoru

comer said:


> Reduced Power Consumption - WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to competitors' drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek, IntelliPark, and IntelliPower technologies.
> [/URL]:


Ahh, sorry, missed that..... Thanks


----------



## hotoru

hotoru said:


> Was thinking of the WD20EARS from Amazon but doesnt look like would be too easy to do this on a mac. I have an older windows XP and a Ubuntu laptops. I should be able to put drive in a external enclosure and flash firmware via USB on the windows laptop? Or should I stick with WD20EVDS? Is it worth the extra $35?
> TIA


 Pulled the trigger and just ordered WD20EARS from Amazon. Should be here tomorrow (Amazon prime  :up hopefully will be able to disable the intellipark using my scrap windows laptop and copy using Comer's voodoo magic CD


----------



## Bill McNeal

Having some problems connecting the drives using SATA/USB adapter. Do you have to have both drives connected simultaneously for jmfs to see them?

Tested this out using the WD EARS drive expansion drive only connected via SATA/USB adapter to my laptop, booting to comer's CD. I didn't connect the Tivo drive yet, so it was not detected. However, the fdisk -l command did not show the connected expansion 2 TB disk. (There may not be a point for me to get a second SATA/USB adapter to connect the Tivo drive if my jmfs boot CD doesn't recognize even one of them.)


----------



## NYHeel

hotoru said:


> Pulled the trigger and just ordered WD20EARS from Amazon. Should be here tomorrow (Amazon prime  :up hopefully will be able to disable the intellipark using my scrap windows laptop and copy using Comer's voodoo magic CD


How would you disable intellipark using a laptop? I thought you needed to use an actual sata connector and not a usb/sata connector.


----------



## comer

Bill McNeal said:


> Having some problems connecting the drives using SATA/USB adapter. Do you have to have both drives connected simultaneously for jmfs to see them?
> 
> Tested this out using the WD EARS drive expansion drive only connected via SATA/USB adapter to my laptop, booting to comer's CD. I didn't connect the Tivo drive yet, so it was not detected. However, the fdisk -l command did not show the connected expansion 2 TB disk. (There may not be a point for me to get a second SATA/USB adapter to connect the Tivo drive if my jmfs boot CD doesn't recognize even one of them.)


Since you need to copy one disk to another - both must be connected simultaneously. 
Did you try a few times to look for 2T drive in a few seconds interval? It takes sometime for system to recognize a new USB connection. Does the native system on that machine see the drive connected? One of reasons could be a bad adapter or connection...


----------



## zordude

Using wdidle3 1.05 on a WD20EVDS dated August 5 2010:

wdidle3 /S0 gives me a syntax error (just brings up the sytnax help)

wdidle3 /D gave a return of "Idle 3 timer is disabled". Confirmed with wdidle3 /r 

Z


----------



## hotoru

NYHeel said:


> How would you disable intellipark using a laptop? I thought you needed to use an actual sata connector and not a usb/sata connector.


 Umm, well now I am not sure. Was hoping I could disable using USB to SATA. I posted question before but no one replied. Any suggestions?


----------



## comer

hotoru said:


> Umm, well now I am not sure. Was hoping I could disable using USB to SATA. I posted question before but no one replied. Any suggestions?


I am not sure if you can do it on your laptop, but on mine I simply take out HDD. It's connectors are accessible from outside and they are regular SATA conectors - power and data. To boot from WD tools CD you don't need an internal HDD.

Oh, and I use extention cable like this


----------



## zordude

Public Service Announcement:

If you do your upgrade, and after you plug everything in you get no video and all the lights on the front of the TiVo just flash - take a deep breath, open the case again, and plug the hard drive in and try again.

Z


----------



## richsadams

hotoru said:


> Umm, well now I am not sure. Was hoping I could disable using USB to SATA. I posted question before but no one replied. Any suggestions?


Using wdidle3.exe requires a direct SATA connection, either via the motherboard or some folks have used a PCI/SATA card.

I never thought about pulling the hard drive on a laptop as comer suggests. It's remotely possible that it could work, but I suspect it won't.

That said, it's quite possible that if the drive was manufactured recently you may not need to do anything. The only way to find out would be to upgrade and then try a menu restart. If TiVo hangs at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen you'd need to find someone with a PC that has a SATA port or you could just live with it I suppose (power cycling TiVo after the occasional update).


----------



## richsadams

zordude said:


> Public Service Announcement:
> 
> If you do your upgrade, and after you plug everything in you get no video and all the lights on the front of the TiVo just flash - take a deep breath, open the case again, and plug the hard drive in and try again.
> 
> Z


Been there...done that.


----------



## hotoru

comer said:


> I am not sure if you can do it on your laptop, but on mine I simply take out HDD. It's connectors are accessible from outside and they are regular SATA conectors - power and data. To boot from WD tools CD you don't need an internal HDD.[/URL]


ahh, thanks for tip. Just so I am clear, you: 
remove the laptops 2.5 SATA drive then using the extention cable 
connect the new TiVo 3.5 SATA drive to be the laptops new primary. 
Then boot from the WD tools CD in laptop CD Drive. 
Using said tool, disable the intellipark feature. 
Then attach old TiVo drive via USB/SATA. Reboot laptop using your jmfs live CD. 
It should clone old TiVo HD to New Tivo HD over 2-4 hours per your guide. (Does it auto recognize source and destination drives?). 
Then I remove the new (2TB) tivo drive, reinstall in Tivo, reboot, and wait for the magic  (Hopefully my old laptop is SATA). 
Thanks for your patience.


----------



## Bai Shen

zordude said:


> Public Service Announcement:
> 
> If you do your upgrade, and after you plug everything in you get no video and all the lights on the front of the TiVo just flash - take a deep breath, open the case again, and plug the hard drive in and try again.
> 
> Z


 :up::up:


----------



## Bai Shen

Am I the only one who keeps reading wdidle as wdiddle?


----------



## comer

Bai Shen said:


> Am I the only one who keeps reading wdidle as wdiddle?


I don't read it, I perceive it as an image


----------



## comer

hotoru said:


> Just so I am clear, you...


Yep, you got that right  Good luck! :up:


----------



## jbell73

zordude said:


> Using wdidle3 1.05 on a WD20EVDS dated August 5 2010:
> 
> wdidle3 /S0 gives me a syntax error (just brings up the sytnax help)
> 
> wdidle3 /D gave a return of "Idle 3 timer is disabled". Confirmed with wdidle3 /r
> 
> Z


Good point. The version was I using "WDIDLE3 Version 1.03" and required "/S 0" to get the function to be completely disabled.

It's good to have both options ready to try. I got my version from WD's site about 3 weeks back but it's dated 8/28/2009.


----------



## richsadams

hotoru said:


> ahh, thanks for tip. Just so I am clear, you:
> remove the laptops 2.5 SATA drive then using the extention cable
> connect the new TiVo 3.5 SATA drive to be the laptops new primary.
> Then boot from the WD tools CD in laptop CD Drive.
> Using said tool, disable the intellipark feature.
> Then attach old TiVo drive via USB/SATA. Reboot laptop using your jmfs live CD.
> It should clone old TiVo HD to New Tivo HD over 2-4 hours per your guide. (Does it auto recognize source and destination drives?).
> Then I remove the new (2TB) tivo drive, reinstall in Tivo, reboot, and wait for the magic  (Hopefully my old laptop is SATA).
> Thanks for your patience.


If you can get that to work you'll join the TiVo Pioneer's Club (most recent inductee was Comer  ). Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## hotoru

zordude said:


> Using wdidle3 1.05 on a WD20EVDS dated August 5 2010:.......
> wdidle3 /D gave a return of "Idle 3 timer is disabled". Confirmed with wdidle3 /r
> Z


Just noting from WD pageWD page for WDidle3 software



> "This utility is designed to upgrade the firmware of the following hard drives: WD1000FYPS-01ZKB0, WD7500AYPS-01ZKB0, WD7501AYPS-01ZKB0.
> 
> CAUTION: Do not attempt to run this software on any hard drives other than what is listed above. Please make sure that the computer system is not turned off during the firmware upgrade. Doing so may damage the hard drive beyond repair and your data may be lost."


Noticed that WD20EARS is not on the list. Is your WD20EARS working after using the WDidle3?
Thanks,


----------



## hotoru

comer said:


> ... To boot from WD tools CD you don't need an internal HDD....


 Ok, I have the WDEARS 2TB Drive. I dug up an old case with MOBO and CD drive. I am having trouble booting to a CD to run the WDidle3 program. I think I have a BIOS problem with the old box as I am getting a CMS checksum error and the bios is having trouble recognizing the SATA drive.

The WDidle3 page indicates you need to boot to a CD or floppy. Does the WD Lifeguard CD allow you to access a command prompt? Or do I need a Win 95/DOS bootable CD? If I can boot to WD CD and get command prompt then I could probably plug in the WD20EARS drive using an external eSATA plug and it should work to flash.... maybe  
Thanks,


----------



## comer

hotoru said:


> Does the WD Lifeguard CD allow you to access a command prompt? Or do I need a Win 95/DOS bootable CD?


I think floppy is your best bet in this regards. They always start their utility automatically, but changing autoexec.bat on a floppy is very easy. Also, there are a number of DOS disks on http://www.bootdisk.com/, check them out, may help.



> If I can boot to WD CD and get command prompt then I could probably plug in the WD20EARS drive using an external eSATA plug and it should work to flash.... maybe
> Thanks,


It should. You will also need to power your drive.


----------



## retiredqwest

Anyone try this software with a S3 or THD?? Or will it not work.... or blow up later.


----------



## richsadams

retiredqwest said:


> Anyone try this software with a S3 or THD?? Or will it not work.... or blow up later.


I tried running it with a Series3 OEM drive and the programg didn't recognize the hard drive. It did recognize my Premiere XL's hard drive however so it doesn't look like it will work with an S3 at least.


----------



## retiredqwest

richsadams said:


> I tried running it with a Series3 OEM drive and the programg didn't recognize the hard drive. It did recognize my Premiere XL's hard drive however so it doesn't look like it will work with an S3 at least.


It worked for me on my THD 160 gigger to a Seagate 1.5 TB. Booted up and showed 215 hrs HD.

Its running right now to a 2TB.....

will report back later....


----------



## retiredqwest

And I really meant to leave this in this thread.... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

Thought I did....

If an Admin wants to move this as this conversation has nothing to do with S4.

Either way I'll continue over there.

Scotty


----------



## zordude

hotoru said:


> Just noting from WD pageWD page for WDidle3 software
> 
> Noticed that WD20EARS is not on the list. Is your WD20EARS working after using the WDidle3?
> Thanks,


I don't have a WD20EARS, I have a WD20EVDS, and yes it is working fine. When I booted the cd the idle timeout was the default (8) and now it is "DISABLED".

Z


----------



## comer

zordude said:


> I don't have a WD20EARS, I have a WD20EVDS, and yes it is working fine. When I booted the cd the idle timeout was the default (8) and now it is "DISABLED".
> 
> Z


15EARS worked here as well.


----------



## jbell73

zordude said:


> I don't have a WD20EARS, I have a WD20EVDS, and yes it is working fine. When I booted the cd the idle timeout was the default (8) and now it is "DISABLED".
> 
> Z


WD20EARS and WD10EARS both worked fine with this application, but version 1.03. I'm sure either version would work fine when used as described earlier in this thread.

I think this is just a CYA maneuver from WD.

-JBell73


----------



## kturcotte

jbell73 said:


> WD20EARS and WD10EARS both worked fine with this application, but version 1.03. I'm sure either version would work fine when used as described earlier in this thread.
> 
> I think this is just a CYA maneuver from WD.
> 
> -JBell73


The 2TB EVDS drives work just fine too right?


----------



## jbell73

zordude said:


> ... I have a WD20EVDS, and yes it is working fine. When I booted the cd the idle timeout was the default (8) and now it is "DISABLED".
> 
> Z


So I would say "Yes", but no first hand experience.


----------



## richsadams

retiredqwest said:


> It worked for me on my THD 160 gigger to a Seagate 1.5 TB. Booted up and showed 215 hrs HD.
> 
> Its running right now to a 2TB.....
> 
> will report back later....


My experiment was on an iMac. Since it did recognize the Premiere drive but not the S3's, it probably has to do with the S3's structure, but it could also have something to do with jmfs being run on an iMacdoesn't seem likely, but it's possible.


----------



## jmill

richsadams said:


> My experiment was on an iMac. Since it did recognize the Premiere drive but not the S3's, it probably has to do with the S3's structure, but it could also have something to do with jmfs being run on an iMacdoesn't seem likely, but it's possible.


Both Series 2 and Series 3 see hard drive as PATA, so tools like MFS and WinMFS work.

TiVo Premiere sees hard drive as SATA, so tools had to be modified. As such, they're not compatible with older TiVo units.


----------



## richsadams

jmill said:


> Both Series 2 and Series 3 see hard drive as PATA, so tools like MFS and WinMFS work.
> 
> TiVo Premiere sees hard drive as SATA, so tools had to be modified. As such, they're not compatible with older TiVo units.


Makes sense. :up: Then that means that jmfs sees the HD/HDXL drives as SATA as well.


----------



## Shagger

Some weirdness here, I want to use widle3 so I am trying to boot with the DL Diags disk and my computer hangs as its recognizing the WD20EARS drive. Do I need to set some sort of jumper or what?


----------



## joesebastian

I was able to disable the idle timer by running wdidle3 on WD15EARS. I created a dos boot usb thumbdrive using Hiren bootcd. If you search for it on google he has step by step instructions to create the usb drive. I learned the hard way that if you have RAID enabled in the bios wdidle3 does not recognized the hard drive. Disable RAID for it to work.
No jumper needed.


----------



## Shagger

joesebastian said:


> I was able to disable the idle timer by running wdidle3 on WD15EARS. I created a dos boot usb thumbdrive using Hiren bootcd. If you search for it on google he has step by step instructions to create the usb drive. I learned the hard way that if you have RAID enabled in the bios wdidle3 does not recognized the hard drive. Disable RAID for it to work.
> No jumper needed.


Hmmm - well I guess lots of people with my board have had similar issues with the newer large SATA drives.

http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?board_id=1&model=A7N8X+Deluxe&id=20081121051515015&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

Looks like a BIOS flash is in order... Nothing like a quick 5 minute project! :O Sigh, I am sure Comer's utility will be easier than this!


----------



## hotoru

Thanks to comer and the others on this forum I have finished upgrade. Things went pretty smooth after some initial difficulty getting wdidle3 (finally borrowed friends PC). Here were the steps I used for anyone else as thick as am I.

-Buy a WD20EARS 2TB Drive
-Get a PC box where you can open and access SATA connection
-Check BIOS (on booting) and make sure CD or Floppy is before hard drive in boot order
-Get boot disk (floppy or CD) and burn to disk using Mac or Windows
-Download WD tool and copy/burn to CD/Floppy/or USB Key
-Download Comer's copy tool from here. (the *iso.zip version). Unzip then burn ISO as CD (same as above).
-Make sure your WD20EARS hard drive connected to SATA port on motherboard.
-Put bootdisk CD in drive and boot PC to CD
-Insert media with WDidle3 tool and run with argument "wdidle3 /d" (sans quotes) to disable intellipark feature that might cause early drive failure in TiVo.
-You can re-run WDidle3 without argument ("wdidle3") and should get message saying something like timer is disabled.
-Note percent of free space on TiVo under "My Shows"
-Shutdown and unplug TiVo.
-Open TiVo using torx wrench with #10 bit to remove four screws from back of TiVo(Found online, home improvement, auto parts and sears stores).
-Remove Hard Drive from TiVo by unscrewing four Torx screws (the same size) that holds brackets to main board. Also remove SATA power and Data cable from Drive.
-Install old TiVo drive into PC on SATA port next to your new WD20EARS drive. (Alternatively you could put each drive in a USB drive enclosure to copy via USB)
-Remove bootdisk from drive and replace with Comers Copy CD burned earlier
-Re-Boot the PC (or can use Mac or PC if using USB cables/dock to Copy drives). You should see some Tux Penguins in the top left of monitor. 
-You want to select "C" for the copy feature. Follow instructions on screen to select the old 360GB Tivo drive as source and the new 2TB WD drive as destination.
-Copying should take about 2-4 hours.
-When finished select "y" (for yes) to expand new 2TB drive (if not the new 2TB drive will think it is only a 360GB drive).
-Expansion should only take a few seconds.
-Shut down PC, unplug, and remove both drives from SATA ports.
-Reverse steps and replace TiVo drive with new 2TB WD20EARS drive.
-Plug back in SATA Cable/Power to TiVo drive (I forgot this one first time, doh!). Replace Screws in drive mount bracket and TiVo Cover and screws
-Plug Tivo Cable, internet and power
-Wait for 10 painful minutes while TiVo boots.
-Check "My Shows" and you should see used space percent has dropped (mine went from 55% to 9%  )
-If all goes well Donate some $$ as thanks to Comer's efforts for a great CD tool without which I would not have been able to upgrade my drive.

(Thanks to richsadams & tgrim1 for input with above guide and all the help from this forum with upgrade)
Let me know if I left out any steps.
Cheers


----------



## richsadams

Nice follow up and props for the links to the various items. :up:

There are a couple of confusing lines:



> Connect the new TiVo 3.5 SATA drive to be the laptops new primary.


Laptop? You were using a regular PC correct?



> Open TiVo using torx wrench (sorry I cannot remember which one) to remove five screws from back of TiVo.


Not to be too picky but there are only four case screws (two more for the fan, but they don't need to be removed). 

BTW, they are Torx 10 screws on the TiVo case and the hard drive sled. Using a Torx screwdriver is a little easier, particularly for the sled IMHO. A Torx 10 screwdriver can be found at most auto parts stores or Sears.

FWIW the jfms disk works fine on a Mac (no need to create a USB copy).

You might want to post a short link to your post here over on Comer's "main" upgrade thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

Enjoy!


----------



## kturcotte

hotoru said:


> Thanks to comer and the others on this forum I have finished upgrade. Things went pretty smooth after some initial difficulty getting wdidle3 (finally borrowed friends PC). Here were the steps I used for anyone else as thick as I.
> 
> -Download WD tool and copy/burn to CD/Floppy/or USB Key
> -Download Comer's copy tool from here. (the *iso.zip version). Unzip then burn ISO as CD (same as above).


Will this work with the EVDS drives too? Also, is there a 64 bit version, or does it not matter, just burn what's there? I tried opening it and it said it's the wrong version for my system (Windows 7 64 bit).


----------



## comer

hotoru said:


> Thanks to comer and the others on this forum I have finished upgrade. Things went pretty smooth after some initial difficulty getting wdidle3 (finally borrowed friends PC). Here were the steps I used for anyone else as thick as I.


Nice instructions! :up: Congrats on your upgrade!


----------



## comer

kturcotte said:


> Will this work with the EVDS drives too? Also, is there a 64 bit version, or does it not matter, just burn what's there? I tried opening it and it said it's the wrong version for my system (Windows 7 64 bit).


It should work for EVDS. Get DOS version - your Windows won't matter


----------



## hotoru

richsadams said:


> Nice follow up and props for the links to the various items. There are a couple of confusing lines:........


Thanks for input. I updated post. The USB copy to which I was referring was using USB cables and enclosures to clone the drives as most Macs do not have accessible SATA ports (maybe mac pro?) I tried to make that clearer in the body of the text.


----------



## richsadams

hotoru said:


> Thanks for input. I updated post. The USB copy to which I was referring was using USB cables and enclosures to clone the drives as most Macs do not have accessible SATA ports (maybe mac pro?) I tried to make that clearer in the body of the text.


Got it. I think I'd rephrase that one line to say something like "if using USB adapters or dock to copy drive)and it wouldn't be isolated to a Mac as you can do the same with a PC. Otherwise, perfect! Nicely done.


----------



## kturcotte

comer said:


> It should work for EVDS. Get DOS version - your Windows won't matter


Only thing I see for DOS is Data Lifeguard.


----------



## comer

T


kturcotte said:


> Only thing I see for DOS is Data Lifeguard.


Sorry, I was thinking about diagnostic tool as someone else asked about checking the drive before using it 
The wdidle is for DOS only, so you need to get a bootable DOS disk.


----------



## gamo62

If anyone here could post the image for the Premiere, that would be great. I suck at Linux, and would have a hard time trying to figure out what to do. On my THD, I just used WinMFS and it worked great. Thanks.


----------



## comer

gamo62 said:


> If anyone here could post the image for the Premiere, that would be great. I suck at Linux, and would have a hard time trying to figure out what to do. On my THD, I just used WinMFS and it worked great. Thanks.


You don't have to "unsuck" at Linux to use jmfs  It's guided, so you only need to answer questions and make a choice in plain English


----------



## Shagger

Shagger said:


> Hmmm - well I guess lots of people with my board have had similar issues with the newer large SATA drives.
> 
> http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?board_id=1&model=A7N8X+Deluxe&id=20081121051515015&page=1&SLanguage=en-us
> 
> Looks like a BIOS flash is in order... Nothing like a quick 5 minute project! :O Sigh, I am sure Comer's utility will be easier than this!


Wow, that sucked... So in order to use the wdidle3 tool to turn off the intellipark on my 20EARS I had to boot my main computer with a DOS disc with the tool on it. The problem was, my A7N8X-Deluxe 2.0 board needed a hacked bios to recognize > 1TB drives. Otherwise the boot sequence would just hang. Supposedly the SiI3112 drivers in the ASUS bios were bad, so, I had to flash the BIOS to this new hacked 1.008-E BIOS, some guy cobbled together. http://www.moonfest.com/bios/asus.htm
I finally got it to run, but the Award BIOS flash told me to press F1 to reset and the computer didn't reboot quite right and I was afraid I had bricked my computer.  So I got it to finally boot, I ran the wdidle3 tool, and am I am FINALLY using Comer's JMFS tool. Holy s4!t, finding the issue with the drive > 1TB was maddening. Now my BIOS settings are all wonky too! The copy is cranking away, so I am happy, but finding the root cause of the computer hanging ALMOST put me over the edge.  So the upshot is I have my Tivo upgraded but my computer now won't recover from going into 'sleep' mode... (sigh) more junk to 'tinker' with...


----------



## kturcotte

comer said:


> T
> 
> Sorry, I was thinking about diagnostic tool as someone else asked about checking the drive before using it
> The wdidle is for DOS only, so you need to get a bootable DOS disk.


How would I go about doing that? What EXACTLY do I need to do? lol


----------



## comer

kturcotte said:


> How would I go about doing that? What EXACTLY do I need to do? lol


*hotoru* did exactly what you ask just recently and described it. Check out this post.


----------



## kturcotte

comer said:


> *hotoru* did exactly what you ask just recently and described it. Check out this post.


All right, I *THINK* I've got it lol Does it matter WHICH version of DOS I download?


----------



## akaussie

My Premiere was setup yesterday with a Cablecard thanks to Comcast, which thankfully went off without a hitch.
I also received my WD20EARS from Amazon with a manufacture date of Sept 14, 2010. I don't have access to a PC, so I can't disable the Intellipark, but hopefully with the newly manufactured drive it won't be an issue. 
I am planning on doing the upgrade in the next few days from my iMac and will post the results.


----------



## hotoru

kturcotte said:


> All right, I *THINK* I've got it lol Does it matter WHICH version of DOS I download?


I believe you would be ok with most later versions. I used a Win ME boot disk


----------



## hotoru

Shagger said:


> Wow, that sucked... So in order to use the wdidle3 tool to turn off the intellipark on my 20EARS I had to boot my main computer with a DOS disc with the tool on it. The problem was, my A7N8X-Deluxe 2.0 board needed a hacked bios .....


 Uggh, what a mess. Sounds similar (but worse) than my woes trying to run the WDidle3. I think the battery on the MOBO was dead. I kept getting a CMOS checksum error. I would have to re configure the bios and boot order every time I shut off to reboot as would forget all the changes and send the date back to Jan 2000 :-o. Was able to get to boot to an old emergency Win 98 boot floppy but would hang when initializing the SATA bus when WD20EARS was attached. What I get for trying to do update with a 6 year old box ;-) In the end, I talked a friend to letting me use his newer build. Once I was able to disable the IDLE timer rest was a piece of cake (Thanks to Comer's ISO file).


----------



## richsadams

hotoru said:


> I used a Win ME boot disk


  ]]] Shudder! [[[


----------



## donnoh

richsadams said:


> ]]] Shudder! [[[


I'd much rather deal with windows ME than their current abortion. I can't turn a Windows PC on without it dominating my computer for the first few minutes looking for updates.
I just bought a new laptop and I would have bought an Apple had it not been for the 100% price premium to buy an Apple laptop over a Windows PC.


----------



## turbobozz

donnoh said:


> I'd much rather deal with windows ME than their current abortion. I can't turn a Windows PC on without it dominating my computer for the first few minutes looking for updates.
> I just bought a new laptop and I would have bought an Apple had it not been for the 100% price premium to buy an Apple laptop over a Windows PC.


Borrowing an internet meme...
UR DOIN IT WRONG (in a helpful/sarcastic way)
I've setup two very, very low end laptops with Win7 in the past year, and neither is dominated by "updates" after boot up.
Maybe get use something like CCleaner and get rid of all the BS crapware and the 3rd party startup programs that check for updates.

edit: meant to be helpful, not a jackss


----------



## richsadams

donnoh said:


> I'd much rather deal with windows ME than their current abortion. I can't turn a Windows PC on without it dominating my computer for the first few minutes looking for updates.
> I just bought a new laptop and I would have bought an Apple had it not been for the 100% price premium to buy an Apple laptop over a Windows PC.


Really&#8230;ME is better than W7? I'd heard Vista was a ME reincarnation, but I thought W7 was doing pretty good, no? I've used it and thought it was quite a step forward&#8230;certainly not perfect but as good as XP at least.

I do know what you mean about updates and the like though&#8230;I still maintain our church's computers and my wife's HP laptop that she has to use for work. I used to build PC's in fact but just came to hate all of the problems. Turn the computer on and walk away for a while so it can do its thing. What a nightmare.

I was also of the same opinion about Apple until I had had enough of the Windows OS and all of the associated problems and costs to get things working and keep them going. I used Linux for a while but finally switched to Apple and have never ever once looked back. The "price premium" is such a myth it's not funny. I used to love Windows (remember how great Windows 3.1 was?) Our household has been Windows free for a several years now and we couldn't be happier. The whole Apple Vs Windows thing is OT here, but any time you want to PM me I can show you how much money and time you can actually _save_ by switching to a Mac&#8230;real dollars, real time. Really. 

Anyway, I'm very happy that you were able to get your Premiere upgrade sorted out&#8230;I'll be following along with your and Comer's valuable step-by-step walk through to upgrade our PXL soon! :up:


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> Anyway, I'm very happy that you were able to get your Premiere upgrade sorted outI'll be following along with your and Comer's valuable step-by-step walk through to upgrade our PXL soon! :up:


On that subject - when doing your upgrade, could you run "mfslayout" and post the result, please?  I am very curious how PXL disk is structured


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> On that subject - when doing your upgrade, could you run "mfslayout" and post the result, please?  I am very curious how PXL disk is structured


Will do!


----------



## willv28

Any problems I've had with Windows 7 have nothing to do with reliability or stability, which were the problems with ME and Vista. We're beginning to roll Windows 7 out at work. No issues with it at all. I think Microsoft is finally starting to learn their lesson.


----------



## musictoo

Used JMFS to add a 2TB WD to my Premier Sunday. Ridiculously easy thanks to all the hard work done here. Simply amazing. Thanks to all.


----------



## donnoh

I have to commend Comer on his herculean efforts to give Premiere owners an upgrade path!
This forum and people like him are what I like so much about Tivos.


----------



## dshlyam

What are the chances to get the solution for additional external 2tb upgrade for a total of 4tb?

Interestingly enough both Weaknees and DvrDude are not selling their 4tb upgrades anymore... DvrDude says they have ran out of enclosures (!), while Weaknees straightforwardly says that they are experiencing "technical difficulties" and are pulling 4tb kits until further notice.

Quite interesting indeed. Also means that there is no path for regular Joe to get Tivo with 4tb for now...


----------



## comer

dshlyam said:


> What are the chances to get the solution for additional external 2tb upgrade for a total of 4tb?
> 
> Interestingly enough both Weaknees and DvrDude are not selling their 4tb upgrades anymore... DvrDude says they have ran out of enclosures (!), while Weaknees straightforwardly says that they are experiencing "technical difficulties" and are pulling 4tb kits until further notice.
> 
> Quite interesting indeed. Also means that there is no path for regular Joe to get Tivo with 4tb for now...


Interesting indeed  I was a few days from releasing a tool to add an external storage. But now I think I need to test more or wait for 14.6 upgrade... may be that's the reason?  *Dvr_dude* is lurking here in the forums, may be he can shed some light?


----------



## dshlyam

comer said:


> I was a few days from releasing a tool to add an external storage.


Wow, this is good news. Can you give us some details on this? I.e. will the new method allow to add storage to previously expanded system with minimal effort and while preserving settings and recordings or will it require going back to the virgin drive or copying full 2tb worth of data?

I was about to upgrade my 7 Tivos (S3 and HD, all 2tb) to Premier, but would rather wait if it's a major pain to easily expand to 4tb later.

Also, have you (or anyone else willing to share) figured out how to SuperSize Premier yet to add that extra space? I will try to supersize the virgin drive with Spike's tools when my shipment of Premiers arrives, but I'm not holding too much hope it'll work...


----------



## akaussie

akaussie said:


> My Premiere was setup yesterday with a Cablecard thanks to Comcast, which thankfully went off without a hitch.
> I also received my WD20EARS from Amazon with a manufacture date of Sept 14, 2010. I don't have access to a PC, so I can't disable the Intellipark, but hopefully with the newly manufactured drive it won't be an issue.
> I am planning on doing the upgrade in the next few days from my iMac and will post the results.


I am now the owner of a 2 TB Tivo thanks to Comer and everyone else here who helped out with advice and suggestions.
I rebooted without issues, so it appears all is well.
Thanks again Comer!


----------



## richsadams

akaussie said:


> I am now the owner of a 2 TB Tivo thanks to Comer and everyone else here who helped out with advice and suggestions.
> I rebooted without issues, so it appears all is well.
> Thanks again Comer!


Excellent news and enjoy!


----------



## dmk1974

Just curious...what hard drive make/model does the TiVo Premiere ship with? Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

dmk1974 said:


> Just curious...what hard drive make/model does the TiVo Premiere ship with? Thanks!


 TiVo Premiere: WD3200AVVS

TiVo Premiere XL: WD10EVVS


----------



## jterwelp

dmk1974 said:


> Just curious...what hard drive make/model does the TiVo Premiere ship with? Thanks!





richsadams said:


> TiVo Premiere: WD320AVVS
> 
> TiVo Premiere XL: WD10EVVS


Actually, the model number of the Premiere drive is WD320*0*AVVS. You keep missing that extra zero, Rich! dmk1974: both drives are made by Western Digital.


----------



## dmk1974

Thank you! So, they are both "green" drives. I was curious of they were "blue" or "black". I have a 1 GB "black" in my TiVo HD which works great. But realistically then, for TiVo purposes, performance should be ok using any of those.


----------



## aaronwt

Even a slow 4200rpm drive can handle the multiple low speed 19Mbs HD streams from TV broadcasts.

Even my slow ide drives back in 2001 had no issues with multiple HD recordings and HD playback concurrently when I used to use PCs for my HD recordings and HD watching.

Of course once the HDTiVos came out in 2004, using my HTPCs for HD recording was mostly a thing of the past.


----------



## comer

dshlyam said:


> Wow, this is good news.


Judging by the number of responses - we are the only two who need this 



> Can you give us some details on this? I.e. will the new method allow to add storage to previously expanded system with minimal effort and while preserving settings and recordings or will it require going back to the virgin drive or copying full 2tb worth of data?


Just like "bless" - everything is preserved.



> Also, have you (or anyone else willing to share) figured out how to SuperSize Premier yet to add that extra space? I will try to supersize the virgin drive with Spike's tools when my shipment of Premiers arrives, but I'm not holding too much hope it'll work...


No, I haven't. It's on my list though  Honestly, I wouldn't do it just for myself, having practically unlimited 4T open wide for HD goodness  I am looking into that bacause of the challenge and because for some reasons it's requested by many users 
So far everything I have actually found (on the disk) points to 10G reserve for TivoClips - that's what WinMFS releases. And it's in bytes, not percentage. I don't get it - 10G is meager 2 hours of HD  Either it used to be bigger or I still don't get something


----------



## kturcotte

Do we really need more recording time? lol We're getting what now (With the 2TB) 290 HD hours? How many SD?
And would this still allow you to add one of Tivo's external drives? lol


----------



## jmill

comer said:


> Judging by the number of responses - we are the only two who need this
> 
> Just like "bless" - everything is preserved.
> 
> No, I haven't. It's on my list though  Honestly, I wouldn't do it just for myself, having practically unlimited 4T open wide for HD goodness  I am looking into that bacause of the challenge and because for some reasons it's requested by many users
> So far everything I have actually found (on the disk) points to 10G reserve for TivoClips - that's what WinMFS releases. And it's in bytes, not percentage. I don't get it - 10G is meager 2 hours of HD  Either it used to be bigger or I still don't get something


If you'll be able to figure out how to do "SuperSize", and on top of that add external storage, that's heaven. I mean we know it's possible, just need to figure out how...


----------



## kturcotte

jmill said:


> If you'll be able to figure out how to do "SuperSize", and on top of that add external storage, that's heaven. I mean we know it's possible, just need to figure out how...


Can the actual hard drive from the external kit be swapped out for a 2TB drive? 580 HD hours? lol


----------



## jmill

kturcotte said:


> Can the actual hard drive from the external kit be swapped out for a 2TB drive? 580 HD hours? lol


This is some nonsense. Please try to stay on topic.


----------



## richsadams

jterwelp said:


> Actually, the model number of the Premiere drive is WD320*0*AVVS. You keep missing that extra zero, Rich! dmk1974: both drives are made by Western Digital.


D'oh! Curse you copy and paste! 

All better now.


----------



## jterwelp

dshlyam said:


> Also, have you (or anyone else willing to share) figured out how to SuperSize Premier yet to add that extra space?





comer said:


> No, I haven't. It's on my list though  Honestly, I wouldn't do it just for myself, having practically unlimited 4T open wide for HD goodness  I am looking into that bacause of the challenge and because for some reasons it's requested by many users
> So far everything I have actually found (on the disk) points to 10G reserve for TivoClips - that's what WinMFS releases. And it's in bytes, not percentage. I don't get it - 10G is meager 2 hours of HD  Either it used to be bigger or I still don't get something


I think you might be missing something. People who have bought 2TB upgrades from DVR_Dude or Weaknees are reporting ~318 HD hours. In fact, Weaknees' web site lists their 2TB Premiere upgrade at 317 HD hours here. That's 27-28 more HD hours than the JMFS tool provides!

Perhaps you could talk one of the DVR_Dude or Weaknees upgraders into capturing some information from their hard drive for you to review? I know a lot of people are interested in the SuperSize option because they are wary of the extra noise, heat, space, failure point, etc. involved in adding an external drive.


----------



## comer

jterwelp said:


> Perhaps you could talk one of the DVR_Dude or Weaknees upgraders into capturing some information from their hard drive for you to review? I know a lot of people are interested in the SuperSize option because they are wary of the extra noise, heat, space, failure point, etc. involved in adding an external drive.


There are a few here and they ain't talkin'


----------



## jterwelp

comer said:


> There are a few here and they ain't talkin'


If you asked *aaronwt* to dump the partition table from one of his DVR_Dude drives, I'd be surprised if he declined.


----------



## aaronwt

jterwelp said:


> If you asked *aaronwt* to dump the partition table from one of his DVR_Dude drives, I'd be surprised if he declined.


The DVR Dude drives are in the TiVos now. I will not be opening them up anytime soon unless there is some kind of failure. Ideally I don't like to mess with the hardware in any of my TiVos once the new TV season starts. SInce the TiVos are typically recording on a daily basis.(although with the S3 boxes I was very comfortable with WinMFS and never had any major issues using it, but with the S4 that is a different story and I also don't want to risk screwing anything up)

If I were to open them up, it wouldn't be until the Christmas holidays.


----------



## jterwelp

aaronwt said:


> The DVR Dude drives are in the TiVos now. I will not be opening them up anytime soon unless there is some kind of failure.


Oh well, it was worth a try!

Comer - is the binary for whatever partition utility you'd want run located on your JMFS Live CD? If so, I'll still hold out hope that someone will be willing to burn that ISO and get this information for us.

Would you be willing to post in the following thread (and/or start a new thread) to try to find a volunteer?
Any DVR Dude 2TB upgrade experimenters?

I think this is worth pursuing because I'd wager that ~30 more hours of HD is an extra week's worth of recording for most people. That's pretty significant.


----------



## gamo62

If anyone here has an image of the PXL and would be willing to share, please PM me. I would like to get a head start before my TiVo arrives, so that I can just put in the new hard drive once it arrives. Thanks.


----------



## tgrim1

I just upgraded mine with a WD20EVDS and Comer's cd worked great!

I did have a problem getting wdidle3 onto a boot disk though. Hirens boot cd customizer didnt work. I dont know if its because I'm running W7-64bit or what but I ended up finding a FreeDos boot cd with wdidle3 already on it here that worked for me. Also found one that has both WDidle3 and TLER utilities here.

timer default was 8sec.
/d option set it for 80min
/s:0 disabled timer

I pretty much followed hotoru's guide on post #860 of this thread except if I would have hit "e" at the expand option it would have exited I believe. I just had to hit "y" to confirm the expansion.


----------



## zordude

tgrim1 said:


> Also found one that has both WDidle3 and TLER utilities here.
> 
> timer default was 8sec.
> /d option set it for 80min
> /s:0 disabled timer


Here is a link to an iso for a boot cd that has wdidle3 1.05 and the /d flag works just fine.

http://www.jamesballenger.com/download/fdoem.iso


----------



## t1voproof

I used the wdidle3 from this post: http://www.maxishine.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12895&view=previous

It set to 62 minutes.


----------



## chinacat

Upgraded to WD Green 2TB drive thanks to Comer's JFMS live CD. Great work! 

Can I take the drive out now and run wdidle3, or does that have to be done before copying the contents of my original Tivo drive to the new drive?


----------



## comer

chinacat said:


> Upgraded to WD Green 2TB drive thanks to Comer's JFMS live CD. Great work!
> 
> Can I take the drive out now and run wdidle3, or does that have to be done before copying the contents of my original Tivo drive to the new drive?


Congrats! :up: Those are two independent operations - can do in any order.


----------



## tcfcameron

Post retracted due to NDA and other contractual obligations.


----------



## dshlyam

jterwelp said:


> Perhaps you could talk one of the DVR_Dude or Weaknees upgraders into capturing some information from their hard drive for you to review? I know a lot of people are interested in the SuperSize option because they are wary of the extra noise, heat, space, failure point, etc. involved in adding an external drive.





comer said:


> There are a few here and they ain't talkin'


Just a curiosity. Why not ask Spike about this? He knows for a fact and he was always releasing his tools to community so it seems that he would be willing to share the info.


----------



## comer

dshlyam said:


> Just a curiosity. Why not ask Spike about this? He knows for a fact and he was always releasing his tools to community so it seems that he would be willing to share the info.


First, supersize is part of WinMFS, source of which is closed. Second, while working on my tool and researching MFS I posted many questions on MFSLive forum (the spike's site) with no answers whatsoever. So I guess he is not in the mood for cooperation.


----------



## dshlyam

comer said:


> First, supersize is part of WinMFS, source of which is closed. Second, while working on my tool and researching MFS I posted many questions on MFSLive forum (the spike's site) with no answers whatsoever. So I guess he is not in the mood for cooperation.


Fare enough. Maybe I'll have better luck?  Check you PM on mfslive...

So, I've got my Tivos. Latest WINMFS v 9.3f says that virgin Tivo Premier drive "is not a Tivo drive" and hangs when I try to turn Superzise on. So much for this theory...

Below is my mfsinfo from supersized Tivo S3 with 2 x 1TB drives. It shows 2777 SD hours and 318 HD hours in Tivo GUI. Hope this helps in some way...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mfsinfo (Drive A: 5, Drive B: 6)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=abbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15 /dev/hdc2 /dev/hdc3
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3905172480

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=9 next_backup_map_start=589813
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=4fd015d1 logstamp=15478591 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=9 backup_map_start=589813
next_map_start=263275 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589779
zone_first=589824 zone_last=217329663 zone_size=216739840 min(chunk)=20480
free=778240 checksum=a1496c00 logstamp=15478597 num_bitmap=15
Z2:	type=1
map_start=263275 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589779
next_map_start=217336832 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=217926655
zone_first=263309 zone_last=589772 zone_size=326464 min(chunk)=8
free=82528 checksum=7d02acc4 logstamp=15478632 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
map_start=217336832 map_size=1 backup_map_start=217926655
next_map_start=217598977 next_map_size=130 next_backup_map_start=217926525
zone_first=217336833 zone_last=217598976 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=140328ff logstamp=15478591 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
map_start=217598977 map_size=130 backup_map_start=217926525
next_map_start=217599107 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=217926491
zone_first=217926656 zone_last=486544383 zone_size=268617728 min(chunk)=2048
free=6428672 checksum=60f18a87 logstamp=15478627 num_bitmap=19
Z5:	type=1
map_start=217599107 map_size=34 backup_map_start=217926491
next_map_start=486544384 next_map_size=66 next_backup_map_start=486546366
zone_first=217599141 zone_last=217926484 zone_size=327344 min(chunk)=8
free=292176 checksum=427633bc logstamp=15478627 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
map_start=486544384 map_size=66 backup_map_start=486546366
next_map_start=1951665152 next_map_size=66 next_backup_map_start=1951667134
zone_first=486546432 zone_last=1951665151 zone_size=1465118720 min(chunk)=20480
free=737280 checksum=6e942032 logstamp=15478627 num_bitmap=18
Z7:	type=2
map_start=1951665152 map_size=66 backup_map_start=1951667134
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=2863311530
zone_first=1951667200 zone_last=3905172479 zone_size=1953505280 min(chunk)=20480
free=5283840 checksum=ec7f3a1f logstamp=15478627 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 52[email protected]74319 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 [email protected] ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 [email protected] ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 [email protected] ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap [email protected] ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var [email protected] ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region [email protected] ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region [email protected] ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 [email protected] ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 [email protected] ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 698.6G)

Tivo B drive 
1 Apple_partition_map Apple [email protected] ( 31.5K)
2 MFS MFS App by Winmfs [email protected] ( 1.0M)
3 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs [email protected] ( 931.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083	Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 0 % Free
Software: 11.0h-01-2-648	Tivo Model: TCD648250B
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## dshlyam

jterwelp said:


> If you asked *aaronwt* to dump the partition table from one of his DVR_Dude drives, I'd be surprised if he declined.





aaronwt said:


> The DVR Dude drives are in the TiVos now. I will not be opening them up anytime soon unless there is some kind of failure. Ideally I don't like to mess with the hardware in any of my TiVos once the new TV season starts. SInce the TiVos are typically recording on a daily basis.(although with the S3 boxes I was very comfortable with WinMFS and never had any major issues using it, but with the S4 that is a different story and I also don't want to risk screwing anything up)
> 
> If I were to open them up, it wouldn't be until the Christmas holidays.


Aside from the fact the *aaronwt* is afraid of taking the Tivo down for a few minutes to help the community, even if he did, what would be the proper way to dump the relevant partitions info for Tivo Premier? WINMFS mfsview is pretty handy, but won't work at all with Tivo Premier. Aside from this the drive would have to connected to a Linux install or CD boot of some sort, some partition table command (fdisk?) should be run, etc.

Perhaps someone (comer?  ) could post what info is required how to obtain it, and then someone else (very) brave with the existing supersized Tivo Premier could run the command and post the results. I would do in a heartbeat, I just don't have the right type of Tivo...


----------



## comer

dshlyam said:


> Perhaps someone (comer?  ) could post what info is required how to obtain it, and then someone else (very) brave with the existing supersized Tivo Premier could run the command and post the results. I would do in a heartbeat, I just don't have the right type of Tivo...


Actually, having original TPXL and/or Dvr_dude's disk layout is not _that_ important. I have a pretty good idea what Supersize does, now I need to implement and test the theory (more than one really ). Although having that information would give some ideas on how things may be done. I think I mentioned that the basic info I am interested in (just a partition layout) can be obtained booting jmfs live cd and running mfslayout.sh.


----------



## myblubu

hotoru said:


> Thanks to comer and the others on this forum I have finished upgrade. Things went pretty smooth after some initial difficulty getting wdidle3 (finally borrowed friends PC). Here were the steps I used for anyone else as thick as I.
> 
> -Buy a WD20EARS 2TB Drive
> -Get a PC box where you can open and access SATA connection
> -Check BIOS (on booting) and make sure CD or Floppy is before hard drive in boot order
> -Get boot disk (floppy or CD) and burn to disk using Mac or Windows
> -Download WD tool and copy/burn to CD/Floppy/or USB Key
> -Download Comer's copy tool from here. (the *iso.zip version). Unzip then burn ISO as CD (same as above).
> -Make sure your WD20EARS hard drive connected to SATA port on motherboard.
> -Put bootdisk CD in drive and boot PC to CD
> -Insert media with WDidle3 tool and run with argument "wdidle3 /d" (sans quotes) to disable intellipark feature that might cause early drive failure in TiVo.
> -You can re-run WDidle3 without argument ("wdidle3") and should get message saying something like timer is disabled.
> -Note percent of free space on TiVo under "My Shows"
> -Shutdown and unplug TiVo.
> -Open TiVo using torx wrench with #10 bit to remove four screws from back of TiVo(Found online, home improvement, auto parts and sears stores).
> -Remove Hard Drive from TiVo by unscrewing four Torx screws (the same size) that holds brackets to main board. Also remove SATA power and Data cable from Drive.
> -Install old TiVo drive into PC on SATA port next to your new WD20EARS drive. (Alternatively you could put each drive in a USB drive enclosure to copy via USB)
> -Remove bootdisk from drive and replace with Comers Copy CD burned earlier
> -Re-Boot the PC (or can use Mac or PC if using USB cables/dock to Copy drives). You should see some Tux Penguins in the top left of monitor.
> -You want to select "C" for the copy feature. Follow instructions on screen to select the old 360GB Tivo drive as source and the new 2TB WD drive as destination.
> -Copying should take about 2-4 hours.
> -When finished select "e" to expand new 2TB drive (if not the new 2TB drive will think it is only a 360GB drive).
> -Expansion should only take a few seconds.
> -Shut down PC, unplug, and remove both drives from SATA ports.
> -Reverse steps and replace TiVo drive with new 2TB WD20EARS drive.
> -Plug back in SATA Cable/Power to TiVo drive (I forgot this one first time, doh!). Replace Screws in drive mount bracket and TiVo Cover and screws
> -Plug Tivo Cable, internet and power
> -Wait for 10 painful minutes while TiVo boots.
> -Check "My Shows" and you should see used space percent has dropped (mine went from 55% to 9%  )
> -If all goes well Donate some $$ as thanks to Comer's efforts for a great CD tool without which I would not have been able to upgrade my drive.
> 
> (Thanks to richsadams for input with above guide and all the help from this forum with upgrade)
> Let me know if I left out any steps.
> Cheers


Awesome compilation of info! Thanks for your hard work!

Just ordered my Premire and also ordered a WD20EARS. I've been reading through the thread and not finished yet, but I do have a couple questions:

When I upgraded my HD to a 1TB drive, I remember having to use a utility to adjust the Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) setting for the drive down to 128 (I think this was to reduce seek noise), is that something we need to do on this 2TB drive also???

I didn't order an extended warranty with my Premire so it will have the standard 90 day warranty, just wondering if I should wait until after the 90 day warranty to do the upgrade? Any thoughts on that?

Any imput would be appreciated.


----------



## richsadams

myblubu said:


> Awesome compilation of info! Thanks for your hard work!
> 
> Just ordered my Premire and also ordered a WD20EARS. I've been reading through the thread and not finished yet, but I do have a couple questions:
> 
> When I upgraded my HD to a 1TB drive, I remember having to use a utility to adjust the Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) setting for the drive down to 128 (I think this was to reduce seek noise), is that something we need to do on this 2TB drive also???
> 
> I didn't order an extended warranty with my Premire so it will have the standard 90 day warranty, just wondering if I should wait until after the 90 day warranty to do the upgrade? Any thoughts on that?
> 
> Any imput would be appreciated.


The WD20EARS is quiet out of the box, however you can still adjust the AAM down to 128 using hddscan. Depending on the manufacture date you may also have to run wdidle3.exe to extend or disable the timeout of the Intellipark feature to avoid the soft reboot issue. See earlier posts or see Section IV, #29 of the Drive Expansion FAQ:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

FWIW it's recommended that you run TiVo for at least 30 days to be sure everything is in working order before upgrading, your call of course.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## vurbano

richsadams said:


> The WD20EARS is quiet out of the box, however you can still adjust the AAM down to 128 using hddscan. Depending on the manufacture date you may also have to run wdidle3.exe to extend or disable the timeout of the Intellipark feature to avoid the soft reboot issue. See earlier posts or see Section IV, #29 of the Drive Expansion FAQ:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160
> 
> FWIW it's recommended that you run TiVo for at least 30 days to be sure everything is in working order before upgrading, your call of course.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


So we now can upgrade the Premiere internal drive eh? IMO 1TB is enufff for me. This makes buying the base model much worth it to me.


----------



## richsadams

vurbano said:


> So we now can upgrade the Premiere internal drive eh? IMO 1TB is enufff for me.


That's what I thought, but now my 1TB drive is bumping up against 89%+ used disk space.


----------



## myblubu

richsadams said:


> The WD20EARS is quiet out of the box, however you can still adjust the AAM down to 128 using hddscan. Depending on the manufacture date you may also have to run wdidle3.exe to extend or disable the timeout of the Intellipark feature to avoid the soft reboot issue. See earlier posts or see Section IV, #29 of the Drive Expansion FAQ:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160
> 
> FWIW it's recommended that you run TiVo for at least 30 days to be sure everything is in working order before upgrading, your call of course.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Thanks Rich! You're always a big help!

I took a look at Section IV, #29 and it mentions using the "wdidle3 /S300" command to get: "Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 300 seconds (5 minutes)."

Comers CD instructions earlier in this tread mention using the WDidle3 tool and run with argument "wdidle3 /d" (sans quotes) to disable intellipark feature that might cause early drive failure in TiVo.

Just wondering which I should use or does it matter?


----------



## richsadams

myblubu said:


> Thanks Rich! You're always a big help!
> 
> I took a look at Section IV, #29 and it mentions using the "wdidle3 /S300" command to get: "Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 300 seconds (5 minutes)."
> 
> Comers CD instructions earlier in this tread mention using the WDidle3 tool and run with argument "wdidle3 /d" (sans quotes) to disable intellipark feature that might cause early drive failure in TiVo.
> 
> Just wondering which I should use or does it matter?


The default Intellipark setting on WD GP drives is 8 seconds. The "/s300" command sets the timeout to 300 seconds/5 minutes which is enough to keep TiVo from hanging at the "Welcome! Powering up&#8230;" screen after a menu restart or OS/firmware update. The "/d" command is intended to disable the Intellipark feature completely and is probably the ideal, but apparently doesn't work on some WD GP drives anymore. So trying the "/d" command would be recommended first and if that doesn't work, "/300" would be fine as well. AFAIK neither will have any effect on the actual life of the hard drive.

It appears that the newest WD GP drives no longer require the Intellipark feature to be tweaked at all. ("Newer" being somewhere around the second week of September or so.) Drives with a manufacture date prior to that often need the tweak. Trial and error is about the only way to find out&#8230;or you can just run wdidle3.exe and not worry about it.

As noted although a USB adapter or dock will be sufficient for the rest of the upgrade process, wdidle3.exe requires the new drive to be connected directly to the computer via a SATA port to work.


----------



## myblubu

richsadams said:


> The default Intellipark setting on WD GP drives is 8 seconds. The "/s300" command sets the timeout to 300 seconds/5 minutes which is enough to keep TiVo from hanging at the "Welcome! Powering up" screen after a menu restart or OS/firmware update. The "/d" command is intended to disable the Intellipark feature completely and is probably the ideal, but apparently doesn't work on some WD GP drives anymore. So trying the "/d" command would be recommended first and if that doesn't work, "/300" would be fine as well. AFAIK neither will have any effect on the actual life of the hard drive.
> 
> It appears that the newest WD GP drives no longer require the Intellipark feature to be tweaked at all. ("Newer" being somewhere around the second week of September or so.) Drives with a manufacture date prior to that often need the tweak. Trial and error is about the only way to find outor you can just run wdidle3.exe and not worry about it.
> 
> As noted although a USB adapter or dock will be sufficient for the rest of the upgrade process, wdidle3.exe requires the new drive to be connected directly to the computer via a SATA port to work.


Thanks again!

Now, let's hope Newegg sends me a REALLY NEW fresh drive


----------



## tcfcameron

tcfcameron said:


> Yes, I have the HD-XL Image. I'll post Before & After "supersize" mfsinfo, using a 2TB WD20EADS drive (as soon as I find the drive. I put it someplace "safe").


Turning supersize on made no difference in MFSinfo, neither did turning it off. Supersize did report success when tuning it on, as well as turning it off. Whatever difference it makes, must not be in the form of anything reported by MFSinfo, but is recognized once the drive is installed into the TiVo.

I tried it with a Series 3 image, HD Image, and HD-XL image. I also tried leaving the swap partition at the WinMFS default of 128MB, as opposed to 1024MB.

The hard drive used is a WD20EADS.

Here's the HD-XL non-supersized:
View attachment MFSInfo 2TB HD-XL (non-supersized).txt




Code:


Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
	Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
	Active Boot Partition: 6  Active Root Partition: 7
	Backup Boot Partition: 3  Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
	state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3903336448

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
	map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
	next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589788
	zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=4c831b2c logstamp=17698 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
	map_start=263266 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589788
	next_map_start=263300 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589754
	zone_first=589824 zone_last=876642303 zone_size=876052480 min(chunk)=20480
	free=873533440 checksum=f3db8732 logstamp=17706 num_bitmap=17
Z2:	type=1
	map_start=263300 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589754
	next_map_start=876644352 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=877234175
	zone_first=263334 zone_last=589749 zone_size=326416 min(chunk)=8
	free=253296 checksum=633d1dc8 logstamp=17698 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
	map_start=876644352 map_size=1 backup_map_start=877234175
	next_map_start=876906497 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234141
	zone_first=876644353 zone_last=876906496 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=dcb8993 logstamp=17698 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
	map_start=876906497 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234141
	next_map_start=876906531 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234107
	zone_first=877234176 zone_last=1951655935 zone_size=1074421760 min(chunk)=20480
	free=1067868160 checksum=833e13f9 logstamp=17706 num_bitmap=17
Z5:	type=1
	map_start=876906531 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234107
	next_map_start=1951672320 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=1951674301
	zone_first=876906565 zone_last=877234100 zone_size=327536 min(chunk)=8
	free=321584 checksum=c824a565 logstamp=17698 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
	map_start=1951672320 map_size=67 backup_map_start=1951674301
	next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
	zone_first=1951674368 zone_last=3903336447 zone_size=1951662080 min(chunk)=20480
	free=1951662080 checksum=f6fa4f logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected]( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected](   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected]( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected]( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected](   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected]( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                     [email protected](   1.0G)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected]( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected]( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected]( 417.7G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected]( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2          [email protected]        ( 512.3G)
 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 [email protected](   1.0M)
 15                   MFS MFS Media by Winmfs         [email protected]( 930.6G)

Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817	100 &#37; Free
Software: 9.4.1-01-2-658	Tivo Model: TCD658000

Here'e the HD-XL supersized:
View attachment MFSInfo 2TB HD-XL supersized.txt




Code:


Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
	Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
	Active Boot Partition: 6  Active Root Partition: 7
	Backup Boot Partition: 3  Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
	state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3903336448

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
	map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
	next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589788
	zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=4c831b2c logstamp=17698 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
	map_start=263266 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589788
	next_map_start=263300 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589754
	zone_first=589824 zone_last=876642303 zone_size=876052480 min(chunk)=20480
	free=873533440 checksum=f3db8732 logstamp=17706 num_bitmap=17
Z2:	type=1
	map_start=263300 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589754
	next_map_start=876644352 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=877234175
	zone_first=263334 zone_last=589749 zone_size=326416 min(chunk)=8
	free=253296 checksum=633d1dc8 logstamp=17698 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
	map_start=876644352 map_size=1 backup_map_start=877234175
	next_map_start=876906497 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234141
	zone_first=876644353 zone_last=876906496 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=dcb8993 logstamp=17698 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
	map_start=876906497 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234141
	next_map_start=876906531 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234107
	zone_first=877234176 zone_last=1951655935 zone_size=1074421760 min(chunk)=20480
	free=1067868160 checksum=833e13f9 logstamp=17706 num_bitmap=17
Z5:	type=1
	map_start=876906531 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234107
	next_map_start=1951672320 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=1951674301
	zone_first=876906565 zone_last=877234100 zone_size=327536 min(chunk)=8
	free=321584 checksum=c824a565 logstamp=17698 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
	map_start=1951672320 map_size=67 backup_map_start=1951674301
	next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
	zone_first=1951674368 zone_last=3903336447 zone_size=1951662080 min(chunk)=20480
	free=1951662080 checksum=f6fa4f logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected]( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected](   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected]( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected]( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected](   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected]( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                     [email protected](   1.0G)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected]( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected]( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected]( 417.7G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected]( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2          [email protected]        ( 512.3G)
 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 [email protected](   1.0M)
 15                   MFS MFS Media by Winmfs         [email protected]( 930.6G)

Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817	100 % Free
Software: 9.4.1-01-2-658	Tivo Model: TCD658000


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> Turning supersize on made no difference in MFSinfo, neither did turning it off. Supersize did report success when tuning it on, as well as turning it off. Whatever difference it makes, must not be in the form of anything reported by MFSinfo, but is recognized once the drive is installed into the TiVo.
> 
> I tried it with a Series 3 image, HD Image, and HD-XL image.


Thank you for doing this! Yes, "supersize" is not a change in a disk structure - it's a "configuartion" object in Tivo.


----------



## tcfcameron

comer said:


> Thank you for doing this! Yes, "supersize" is not a change in a disk structure - it's a "configuartion" object in Tivo.


That's what I was thinking, as well. If I remember correctly, from the many hours/days I spent digging around in the WinMFS, MFSLive, and other forums, the original configuration (non-supersized) uses a percentage of the total drive capacity for TiVo "Showcases". When MFS supersize in turned on, it sets the allocation to a set XXGB size, instead of a percentage. I think that the set amount was 10GB, and caused no ill effects, but I'm not 100% sure of the set allocation amount that was deemed "safe".


----------



## tcfcameron

comer said:


> Thank you for doing this! Yes, "supersize" is not a change in a disk structure - it's a "configuartion" object in Tivo.


Just in case you have any interest, this is what the "Broflovski" image looks like when imaged to the same drive:

View attachment MFSInfo 2TB Boflovski Imaged Tivo HD (not yet booted state).txt




Code:


Mfsinfo (Drive 2)

Boot Page
	Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
	Active Boot Partition: 6  Active Root Partition: 7
	Backup Boot Partition: 3  Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
	state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=3903336448

Zone Maps
Z0:	type=0
	map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
	next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589788
	zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=8ac81e70 logstamp=45323 num_bitmap=1
Z1:	type=2
	map_start=263266 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589788
	next_map_start=263300 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589754
	zone_first=589824 zone_last=876642303 zone_size=876052480 min(chunk)=20480
	free=872714240 checksum=3877c27f logstamp=45397 num_bitmap=17
Z2:	type=1
	map_start=263300 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589754
	next_map_start=876644352 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=877234175
	zone_first=263334 zone_last=589749 zone_size=326416 min(chunk)=8
	free=254560 checksum=301b77a9 logstamp=45479 num_bitmap=17
Z3:	type=0
	map_start=876644352 map_size=1 backup_map_start=877234175
	next_map_start=876906497 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234141
	zone_first=876644353 zone_last=876906496 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
	free=262144 checksum=cb808ccf logstamp=45323 num_bitmap=1
Z4:	type=2
	map_start=876906497 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234141
	next_map_start=876906531 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=877234107
	zone_first=877234176 zone_last=1951655935 zone_size=1074421760 min(chunk)=20480
	free=1072496640 checksum=721ed43f logstamp=45397 num_bitmap=17
Z5:	type=1
	map_start=876906531 map_size=34 backup_map_start=877234107
	next_map_start=1951672320 next_map_size=67 next_backup_map_start=1951674301
	zone_first=876906565 zone_last=877234100 zone_size=327536 min(chunk)=8
	free=268112 checksum=8cf181f0 logstamp=45479 num_bitmap=17
Z6:	type=2
	map_start=1951672320 map_size=67 backup_map_start=1951674301
	next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=0
	zone_first=1951674368 zone_last=3903336447 zone_size=1951662080 min(chunk)=20480
	free=1951662080 checksum=f6fa4f logstamp=0 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
 #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
  1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               [email protected]         (  31.5K)
  2                 Image Bootstrap 1                          [email protected]( 512.0 )
  3                 Image Kernel 1                          [email protected](   4.0M)
  4                  Ext2 Root 1                          [email protected]( 256.0M)
  5                 Image Bootstrap 2                          [email protected]( 512.0 )
  6                 Image Kernel 2                          [email protected](   4.0M)
  7                  Ext2 Root 2                          [email protected]( 256.0M)
  8                  Swap Linux swap                     [email protected](   1.0G)
  9                  Ext2 /var                            [email protected]( 256.0M)
 10                   MFS MFS application region          [email protected]( 288.0M)
 11                   MFS MFS media region             [email protected]( 417.7G)
 12                   MFS MFS application region 2        [email protected]( 288.0M)
 13                   MFS MFS media region 2          [email protected]        ( 512.3G)
 14                   MFS MFS App by Winmfs                 [email protected](   1.0M)
 15                   MFS MFS Media by Winmfs         [email protected]( 930.6G)

Total SA SD Hours: 2082	Total DTV SD Hours: 1817	100 &#37; Free
Software: 11.0d-01-2-652	Tivo Model: not set in MFS

This image will back-up with WinMFS, once booted and updated, but upon trying to the restore the backup, it will fail.

As stated in the past, this image won't accept turning MFS supersize on. However, it doesn't allow turning MFS supersize off, either.

I get a total of (up to) 318 HD hours when using this image.

Something that makes this image unique, is the "TiVo Model: not set in MFS" notation, and that upon booting, it does some sort of updating, which doesn't involve downloading the newest software (that's the very last update that happens).


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> That's what I was thinking, as well. If I remember correctly, from the many hours/days I spent digging around in the WinMFS, MFSLive, and other forums, the original configuration (non-supersized) uses a percentage of the total drive capacity for TiVo "Showcases". When MFS supersize in turned on, it sets the allocation to a set XXGB size, instead of a percentage. I think that the set amount was 10GB, and caused no ill effects, but I'm not 100% sure of the set allocation amount that was deemed "safe".


Almost correct  The reserved space is never in percentage, but in KB. But that configuration object also has min and max disk size to which it is applicable. In case of Premiere it is 315/323G and reserved size is 10G. The theory is that once disk is outside of that range, the reserved space size is scaled. For example, if we put 646G disk in place of 320G, the resrved space will actually be 10G * (646G/323G) = 20G. So one can either set the maximum disk size to what really is (or maximum possible), or set the reserved size to something less, or both.
That's what I understand so far


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> As stated in the past, this image won't accept turning MFS supersize on. However, it doesn't allow turning MFS supersize off, either.
> 
> I get a total of (up to) 318 HD hours when using this image.
> 
> Something that makes this image unique, is the "TiVo Model: not set in MFS" notation, and that upon booting, it does some sort of updating, which doesn't involve downloading the newest software (that's the very last update that happens).


Hm... My guess would be that the whole configuration is trashed - the reserved space, model, serial number etc - so Tivo needs to restore it upon the first boot. That's (probably) why model and disk configuration (reserved space info) are not found. Since disk configuration is not found, it can not be updated either way - up or down.


----------



## tcfcameron

comer said:


> Almost correct  The reserved space is never in percentage, but in KB. But that configuration object also has min and max disk size to which it is applicable. In case of Premiere it is 315/323G and reserved size is 10G. The theory is that once disk is outside of that range, the reserved space size is scaled. For example, if we put 646G disk in place of 320G, the resrved space will actually be 10G * (646G/323G) = 20G. So one can either set the maximum disk size to what really is (or maximum possible), or set the reserved size to something less, or both.
> That's what I understand so far


At least somebody is figuring it all out 

I would bet, that once you do, and your freeware allows people to get the same result as a DVR_Dude drive or the other sellers' drives, in a DIY fashion, there will be some heated debating started over the forum sponsors losing money, claims of intellectual property infringement, etc.

I already know where I stand. I know that you have built your software from the ground up. Nobody has offered image snapshots of drives commercially produced/sold. This is really for the best. If you figure it out, all on your own (maybe with a little legitimate help from others), nobody can stop your hard work from being used by the masses.

I thank you, as I'm sure many other do, for all your tenacity and hard work, and letting us use it for free. I'm confident that your solution will be complete with a supersize-like feature in the near future.

As soon as I actually own a Premiere again, I'll be sure to send a token of gratitude your way.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> I would bet, that once you do, and your freeware allows people to get the same result as a DVR_Dude drive or the other sellers' drives, in a DIY fashion, there will be some heated debating started over the forum sponsors losing money, claims of intellectual property infringement, etc.


If that were ever going to be an issue, it would have come up with winMFS years ago (or even the Hinsdale upgrade methods before that). The forum sponsors are just that, this isn't a for-profit forum and the only censorship I've ever seen (besides spam, flames, etc.) is when someone strays into discussing TiVo stock or violation of the actual image posting regulations.

The folks making money off of TiVo upgrades shouldn't be too concerned anyway. Although there seems to be a lot of activity here, the actual numbers are miniscule as compared to boxes in the wild. They'll still have plenty of "plug and play" customers that haven't a clue how to go about doing what we've been doing here IMHO.


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> If that were ever going to be an issue, it would have come up with winMFS years ago (or even the Hinsdale upgrade methods before that). The forum sponsors are just that, this isn't a for-profit forum and the only censorship I've ever seen (besides spam, flames, etc.) is when someone strays into discussing TiVo stock or violation of the actual image posting regulations.
> 
> The folks making money off of TiVo upgrades shouldn't be too concerned anyway. Although there seems to be a lot of activity here, the actual numbers are miniscule as compared to boxes in the wild. They'll still have plenty of "plug and play" customers that haven't a clue how to go about doing what we've been doing here IMHO.


I didn't mean that the forum sponsors would actually come into this thread and start anything (or put a stop to anything).

I mean forum users, who think that projects like this could hurt the forum sponsors, thus resulting in the collapse of the forum, the sky falling, global warming, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria, etc.

Somebody posted such an objection early on, with Comer's project. If I could easily find it, I'd quote it.

There are people here that are TiVo fanboys and TCF fanboys, so much so, that what we are doing here is heresy to them. I'm not one of them, for the record.

As far as the "it would have happened before" part of your opinion, I only disagree, in that, the economy is different now, than it was in almost every time period associated with the prior methods / sources of methods to upgrade TiVo hard drives. So, this may just be the time that -somebody- actually tries to stop the things that we pretty much take for granted, such as DIY TiVo storage upgrades. On the other hand, nothing of the sort may happen. Only time will tell.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> I didn't mean that the forum sponsors would actually come into this thread and start anything (or put a stop to anything).
> 
> I mean forum users, who think that projects like this could hurt the forum sponsors, thus resulting in the collapse of the forum, the sky falling, global warming, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria, etc.
> 
> Somebody posted such an objection early on, with Comer's project. If I could easily find it, I'd quote it.
> 
> There are people here that are TiVo fanboys and TCF fanboys, so much so, that what we are doing here is heresy to them. I'm not one of them, for the record.
> 
> As far as the "it would have happened before" part of your opinion, I only disagree, in that, the economy is different now, than it was in almost every time period associated with the prior methods / sources of methods to upgrade TiVo hard drives. So, this may just be the time that -somebody- actually tries to stop the things that we pretty much take for granted, such as DIY TiVo storage upgrades. On the other hand, nothing of the sort may happen. Only time will tell.


Got it.  Again, though, if someone were going to step in it would have already happened IMHO. There's just no case for it based on forum rules&#8230;not that rule makers can't change them of course. I've had personal conversations with the owner of DVRUpgrade and he's a very stand-up guy. DVRUpgrade/Weaknees have a business model that understands that competition (free or otherwise) is part of the landscape. Plus again, although we think our ranks are large, we're a tiny blip on the radar made up of enthusiasts that just aren't part of the "norm" when it comes to folks looking to get a little more recording space. Most will take the easy route and buy an Expander. The slightly more adventurous will continue to buy from Weaknees, DVRUpgrade and even the odd e-bayer and risk opening their TiVo's. People willing to spend time opening, fussing with their computers, running programs and the like are pretty rare. Although some have probably come and gone from this thread without ever saying a word, you can count on a couple of hands or so how many have actually posted their questions and results here.

Anyway, I think we're more than safe and kudos to you, Comer and all of the TiVo Pioneers here! :up:


----------



## EdH

tcfcameron said:


> At least somebody is figuring it all out
> 
> I would bet, that once you do, and your freeware allows people to get the same result as a DVR_Dude drive or the other sellers' drives, in a DIY fashion, there will be some heated debating started over the forum sponsors losing money, claims of intellectual property infringement, etc.


As it stands, Comer's work provides almost (or very close to) the result offered by the commercial vendors. On a 2gb drive the difference in recording time is pretty small.

I suspect most users, at least the more adventurous ones can live with that. I certainly can.

It would be nice to get that extra space; but it's just not a necessity.


----------



## lickwid

Thanks Comer for the great work and the JavaMFS Live CD. I was able to upgrade my stock Premiere to 2TB, using a Hitachi 2TB hard drive I picked up from Fry's last week. It seems that the new Hitachi drives no longer allows you to edit the AAM settings. There is a review on amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/review/RJ69LRFN7YFNN/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RJ69LRFN7YFNN) that says there's a way to enable the functionality in the BIOS, but I have yet to get that to work. It's a little louder than optimal, but it's ok for now.


----------



## richsadams

lickwid said:


> It seems that the new Hitachi drives no longer allows you to edit the AAM settings.


That shouldn't be the case, although the current version of Hitachi's Feature Tool doesn't work, v2.11 should and if not that hddscan should work as well. I'd give one or the other of those a try if the noise continues to be an issue. More information about both (plus the HFT iso) can be found in the Drive Expansion and Upgrade FAQ (specifically Section IV, #32):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## lickwid

richsadams said:


> That shouldn't be the case, although the current version of Hitachi's Feature Tool doesn't work, v2.11 should and if not that hddscan should work as well. I'd give one or the other of those a try if the noise continues to be an issue. More information about both (plus the HFT iso) can be found in the Drive Expansion and Upgrade FAQ (specifically Section IV, #32):
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160
> 
> Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


Thank you. I'll give it a shot this weekend.


----------



## myblubu

richsadams said:


> It appears that the newest WD GP drives no longer require the Intellipark feature to be tweaked at all. ("Newer" being somewhere around the second week of September or so.) Drives with a manufacture date prior to that often need the tweak. Trial and error is about the only way to find out&#8230;or you can just run wdidle3.exe and not worry about it.


My drive arrived today! - Manufacture date is 9/22/10 - Do you think I'm safe regarding the Intellipark feature??? How should I verify?


----------



## lickwid

richsadams said:


> That shouldn't be the case, although the current version of Hitachi's Feature Tool doesn't work, v2.11 should and if not that hddscan should work as well. I'd give one or the other of those a try if the noise continues to be an issue. More information about both (plus the HFT iso) can be found in the Drive Expansion and Upgrade FAQ (specifically Section IV, #32):
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160
> 
> Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


Hmm, I've downloaded HDDscan and the older Hitachi Feature Tool, and both show the new Hitachi 2TB HDD as "Not Supported" for the Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) feature. I'll have to see if I can somehow switch to IDE mode from AHCI mode within my BIOS.


----------



## richsadams

myblubu said:


> My drive arrived today! - Manufacture date is 9/22/10 - Do you think I'm safe regarding the Intellipark feature??? How should I verify?


The only way to fnd out would be to perform the upgrade, install the drive and see if it will reboot from a menu restart. If not (or if it doesn't boot up at all) then you'll probably need to run wdidle3 to extend or disable the Intellipark timeout. Not very scientific, but that's about it.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!


----------



## richsadams

lickwid said:


> Hmm, I've downloaded HDDscan and the older Hitachi Feature Tool, and both show the new Hitachi 2TB HDD as "Not Supported" for the Automatic Acoustic Management (AAM) feature. I'll have to see if I can somehow switch to IDE mode from AHCI mode within my BIOS.


Understood. It's quite possible that hddscan hasn't caught up with the 2TB drives...or may never, it's hard to say and the old HTF program may only work on 1TB or smaller drives as well. I could had sworn that I remember some folks being able to adjust the AAM on the 2TB Hitachi drives though...but it's becoming a blur anymore. 

It'll be good to know if you're successful...making you a bit of a TiVo Pioneer yourself!


----------



## hotoru

tgrim1 said:


> I just upgraded mine......
> I pretty much followed hotoru's guide on post #869 of this thread except if I would have hit "e" at the expand option it would have exited I believe. I just had to hit "y" to confirm the expansion.


 Sorry, glad you were paying attention. I wrote that part from memory. I will change on the post (#860)


----------



## hotoru

myblubu said:


> My drive arrived today! - Manufacture date is 9/22/10 - Do you think I'm safe regarding the Intellipark feature??? How should I verify?


 Mine was mnfg in 9/2010 but I still disabled the intellipark. I understood the problem as early drive failure. I thought it was 'probably' fixed by 9/2010. But, I decided the benefits of intellipark did not outweight the risk of early drive failure with loss of up to 2TB worth of shows and a $100 drive. You can run the WDidle program without arguments to check the intellipark status. (As per my post #860)


----------



## myblubu

richsadams said:


> The only way to fnd out would be to perform the upgrade, install the drive and see if it will reboot from a menu restart. If not (or if it doesn't boot up at all) then you'll probably need to run wdidle3 to extend or disable the Intellipark timeout. Not very scientific, but that's about it.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes!





hotoru said:


> Mine was mnfg in 9/2010 but I still disabled the intellipark. I understood the problem as early drive failure. I thought it was 'probably' fixed by 9/2010. But, I decided the benefits of intellipark did not outweight the risk of early drive failure with loss of up to 2TB worth of shows and a $100 drive. You can run the WDidle program without arguments to check the intellipark status. (As per my post #860)


Thanks for both responses! I was just wondering if I should disable intellipark anyway, so both comments came in handy. Thanks!


----------



## mkkelly75

Not sure if anyone would want to use a Seagate drive, but this is about the best price I have seen on a 2T yet:

$89.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22148413-L012B

$10 off with promo code EMCZYZR58

I used a 1T in my 1st HD TiVo and never had an issue, but I know some people have been turned off to this by the issues Seagate had recently.


----------



## richsadams

hotoru said:


> Mine was mnfg in 9/2010 but I still disabled the intellipark. I understood the problem as early drive failure. I thought it was 'probably' fixed by 9/2010. But, I decided the benefits of intellipark did not outweight the risk of early drive failure with loss of up to 2TB worth of shows and a $100 drive. You can run the WDidle program without arguments to check the intellipark status. (As per my post #860)


I'm not sure where the Intellipark/"early drive failure" idea ever came from. AFAIK there's no evidence that Intellipark would have any effect on the longevity of a hard drive, particularly in a TiVo. I did a little research and couldn't find anything to support that theory. If someone can point us to a source it would be very helpful. Otherwise there's no need to worry about it IMO.


----------



## richsadams

mkkelly75 said:


> Not sure if anyone would want to use a Seagate drive, but this is about the best price I have seen on a 2T yet:
> 
> $89.99
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22148413-L012B
> 
> $10 off with promo code EMCZYZR58
> 
> I used a 1T in my 1st HD TiVo and never had an issue, but I know some people have been turned off to this by the issues Seagate had recently.


That's certainly a very good price! The specs list the acoustics at 2.6 bels which isn't as quiet as some drives, but not that bad either. The AAM can't be changed on Seagate drives, so if you can live with that, it's worth a try. I think we'd all like to hear how things go!


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> That's certainly a very good price! The specs list the acoustics at 2.6 bels which isn't as quiet as some drives, but not that bad either. The AAM can't be changed on Seagate drives, so if you can live with that, it's worth a try. I think we'd all like to hear how things go!


I posted a link before here. From the article:


> It is worth noting that there are no actual failures attributed to this problem as yet - just a number of drives that are reporting rapid (and unusual) increases in load/unload cycles via the drive's SMART reporting feature. Some drives are approaching the rated specification of 300,000 load/unload cycles after less than a year of ownership. While the drives are extremely unlikely to give up the ghost right as the counter crosses 300,000, exceeding the specification indicates the point where the risk of failure begins to increase.


 (underlined is my point of view)

I personally observed that effect on one of my drives and that drive did fail - for this reason or not - I don't know. YMMV of course.


----------



## mkkelly75

richsadams said:


> That's certainly a very good price! The specs list the acoustics at 2.6 bels which isn't as quiet as some drives, but not that bad either. The AAM can't be changed on Seagate drives, so if you can live with that, it's worth a try. I think we'd all like to hear how things go!


I've got my 2 TiVo's upgraded now, but I thought their might be an adventurous soul out there.


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> I'm not sure where the Intellipark/"early drive failure" idea ever came from. AFAIK there's no evidence that Intellipark would have any effect on the longevity of a hard drive, particularly in a TiVo. I did a little research and couldn't find anything to support that theory. If someone can point us to a source it would be very helpful. Otherwise there's no need to worry about it IMO.


Well, that would vary, depending on how loosely you use the term "failure". HDD head retract/reload cycles are part of the SMART logging set. They start at a number like 255, 200, or 100, depending on the manufacturer, and tick downward incrementally over time as the number of cycles increases, eventually reaching zero. Just like Power-On Hours Count, when zero is reached, the SMART status of the drive may change to "BAD", which some may mistake as failure. This may also depend on the software you use to read the SMART data, as to how it interprets that register. Just like power-on hours, it doesn't mean the drive is now bad and must be replaced, but is supposed to be an indicator of drive age/workload.

Short version: if you have an environment or configuration where the drive retracts the heads, but then then reloads them almost immediately (and this repeats itself too often), you run the counter down very fast (some flavors of *nix are known for this).

This rumor about failure, wouldn't even affect TiVos. They are always reading/writing, excluding reboots, which would prohibit the counter from ticking-down at an accelerated rate (quite the opposite). This is why simply extending the Idle3 timer on WD drives works just as well as disabling it completely.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> Well, that would vary, depending on how loosely you use the term "failure". HDD head retract/reload cycles are part of the SMART logging set. They start at a number like 255, 200, or 100, depending on the manufacturer, and tick downward incrementally over time as the number of cycles increases, eventually reaching zero. Just like Power-On Hours Count, when zero is reached, the SMART status of the drive may change to "BAD", which some may mistake as failure. This may also depend on the software you use to read the SMART data, as to how it interprets that register. Just like power-on hours, it doesn't mean the drive is now bad and must be replaced, but is supposed to be an indicator of drive age/workload.
> 
> Short version: if you have an environment or configuration where the drive retracts the heads, but then then reloads them almost immediately (and this repeats itself too often), you run the counter down very fast (some flavors of *nix are known for this).
> 
> This rumor about failure, wouldn't even affect TiVos. They are always reading/writing, excluding reboots, which would prohibit the counter from ticking-down at an accelerated rate (quite the opposite). This is why simply extending the Idle3 timer on WD drives works just as well as disabling it completely.


Excellent info...and makes perfect sense. So it would seem folks here (at least) shouldn't have any worries and we can put that idea to bed as they say. Thanks! :up:


----------



## richsadams

mkkelly75 said:


> I've got my 2 TiVo's upgraded now, but I thought their might be an adventurous soul out there.


Volunteers? Anyone? Anyone?


----------



## myblubu

mkkelly75 said:


> Not sure if anyone would want to use a Seagate drive, but this is about the best price I have seen on a 2T yet:
> 
> $89.99
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22148413-L012B
> 
> $10 off with promo code EMCZYZR58
> 
> I used a 1T in my 1st HD TiVo and never had an issue, but I know some people have been turned off to this by the issues Seagate had recently.


Newegg also put the WD20EARS on sale for $99 with free shipping. That's the one I bought but paid $110 for it. My drive was due to be delivered on the day I saw the price drop, so I called and they gave me credit for the difference.


----------



## gespears

I've got a new one for you. I while back I mentioned I wanted to make a backup of my 2TB drive. Well I finally got a chance to play with making a backup. I recently got a free copy (giveawayoftheday) of Paragon Drive copy and it has a raw mode. I tried it. It took 6 and a half hours via direct SATA connection to the motherboard but after it was finished I stuck it in the TiVo and it worked flawlessly. It showed 317 HD hours and even did an update with no issues.

So if anyone wants to do a Windows copy of the TiVo drive, it works well, albeit slowly. Plus, it said the TiVo drive partition was "undefined" but copied it anyway. Interesting.


----------



## comer

gespears said:


> I've got a new one for you. I while back I mentioned I wanted to make a backup of my 2TB drive. Well I finally got a chance to play with making a backup. I recently got a free copy (giveawayoftheday) of Paragon Drive copy and it has a raw mode. I tried it. It took 6 and a half hours via direct SATA connection to the motherboard but after it was finished I stuck it in the TiVo and it worked flawlessly. It showed 317 HD hours and even did an update with no issues.
> 
> So if anyone wants to do a Windows copy of the TiVo drive, it works well, albeit slowly. Plus, it said the TiVo drive partition was "undefined" but copied it anyway. Interesting.


80MB/s? Seems a bit _too_ fast for 1-to-1 copy. It may have skipped some areas that it deemed inconsequential  Did you have any recordings, do they all play fine?


----------



## cherb

richsadams said:


> FWIW if I were going to upgrade my Premiere XL today I'd go with Western Digital's WD20EVDS:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136494
> 
> Price-wise it's a little higher than some of the other WD 2TB drives, but it's a dedicated A/V hard drive so the AAM is already set to 128 and based on recent reports if this drive has been manufactured after August 1 or so the issue with the Intellipark feature and soft reboots doesn't apply. So that would be my choice of the moment.
> 
> I used to be a die-hard Seagate man, but over the past few years their QC has plummeted for some reason. Seems like that happened about the same time they acquired Maxtor, but it could be a coincidence. So WD has moved from lower in the food chain to near the top if not top on my list now. I've also had great success with Hitachi's Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K. (http://amzn.to/cinYZz or http://amzn.to/bmY99L) They run very cool and quiet and the three I have have been flawless for over a year now. They are 1TB however so I'm not sure about the 2TB version.
> 
> BTW, at today's current prices I wouldn't waste my time with a 1TB or 1.5TB drive. My rule of thumb has always been buy as much space as you can afford even if you don't think you'll use it.
> 
> The 4K Sector format hasn't affected TiVo upgrades to date.
> 
> I'm sure others will chime in but hope that helps and happy upgrading!


Is the WD20EVDS still the drive of choice? Isn't the WD20EURS still tunable to AAM of 128 with the DOS tools? Based on the WDC website, the EURS is 1dB quieter for both idle and seek. It also seems to be cheaper. Wondering what others thoughts and experiences are.


----------



## richsadams

cherb said:


> Is the WD20EVDS still the drive of choice? Isn't the WD20EURS still tunable to AAM of 128 with the DOS tools? Based on the WDC website, the EURS is 1dB quieter for both idle and seek. It also seems to be cheaper. Wondering what others thoughts and experiences are.


Welcome to the forum! The WD20EVDS is a good choice, a number of folks are using them here. AFAIK no one has ever used the EURS series. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work and you s/b able to adjust the AAM, but it's an unknown. The second most popular drive to use is the WD20EARS.


----------



## gespears

comer said:


> 80MB/s? Seems a bit _too_ fast for 1-to-1 copy. It may have skipped some areas that it deemed inconsequential  Did you have any recordings, do they all play fine?


Yes and yes they did. Everything worked well!


----------



## tcfcameron

How many hours did the original drive show?

If I am reading your posts correctly, you either copied a DVR_Dude type drive and got an equal copy, or you managed to gain hours, exceeding the current maximum with Comer's method, after you made the clone. In either case, this is great news, as long as there were no problems introduced.

So how was your original 2TB drive prepared? Was it a pre-imaged drop-in, or was it made with Comer's tools?

I'll bet that, in either case, if you could get the MFS file system partition data, from both drives, and post it, it may shed some light on a way to get everybody that extra storage that has been elusive to the DIY community.

I know that it may not be something you really want to do, but "doing that little extra and sharing the pertinent data" is how we thrive here.



gespears said:


> I've got a new one for you. I while back I mentioned I wanted to make a backup of my 2TB drive. Well I finally got a chance to play with making a backup. I recently got a free copy (giveawayoftheday) of Paragon Drive copy and it has a raw mode. I tried it. It took 6 and a half hours via direct SATA connection to the motherboard but after it was finished I stuck it in the TiVo and it worked flawlessly. It showed 317 HD hours and even did an update with no issues.
> 
> So if anyone wants to do a Windows copy of the TiVo drive, it works well, albeit slowly. Plus, it said the TiVo drive partition was "undefined" but copied it anyway. Interesting.


----------



## comer

Perhaps you would be interested to know that all of your donations - thank you very much - (and my birthday money) went into acquiring a 3TB seagate drive mentioned here earlier (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148580&cm_re=goflex-_-22-148-580-_-Product). I guess that was a good news. The bad news is that it *can not* be used in Tivo. Neither as an internal nor as an external drive (the upcoming version of jmfs has an ability to add any drive as external - ala "bless"). I tried straight image of a stock 320G on it as an internal, without any expasion tricks - Tivo goes into boot-waitaminute-boot-waitaminute loop. If used externally Tivo does not recognize it - "your external storage has been disconnected, press CLEAR to remove". It feels very much like BIOS or hardware limitation or incompatibility. Linux on a PC sees the whole 3T capacity without a problem connected through SATA directly. W7 sees the drive as ~700G only connected through generic SATA-USB. However, through Seagate's stock USB dock the drive is seen correctly as 2794G on the same Winodws. 
So, again, looks like Tivo Premiere is hard-limited to 2TB total storage


----------



## kturcotte

comer said:


> Perhaps you would be interested to know that all of your donations - thank you very much - (and my birthday money) went into acquiring a 3TB seagate drive mentioned here earlier (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148580&cm_re=goflex-_-22-148-580-_-Product). I guess that was a good news. The bad news is that it *can not* be used in Tivo. Neither as an internal nor as an external drive (the upcoming version of jmfs has an ability to add any drive as external - ala "bless"). I tried straight image of a stock 320G on it as an internal, without any expasion tricks - Tivo goes into boot-waitaminute-boot-waitaminute loop. If used externally Tivo does not recognize it - "your external storage has been disconnected, press CLEAR to remove". It feels very much like BIOS or hardware limitation or incompatibility. Linux on a PC sees the whole 3T capacity without a problem connected through SATA directly. W7 sees the drive as ~700G only connected through generic SATA-USB. However, through Seagate's stock USB dock the drive is seen correctly as 2794G on the same Winodws.
> So, again, looks like Tivo Premiere is hard-limited to 4T total storage


That's too bad, but thanks for letting us know.
Hopefully they fix this with the Series 5, ESPECIALLY UHD is out by then! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_High_Definition_Television


----------



## gespears

tcfcameron said:


> How many hours did the original drive show?
> 
> If I am reading your posts correctly, you either copied a DVR_Dude type drive and got an equal copy, or you managed to gain hours, exceeding the current maximum with Comer's method, after you made the clone. In either case, this is great news, as long as there were no problems introduced.
> 
> So how was your original 2TB drive prepared? Was it a pre-imaged drop-in, or was it made with Comer's tools?
> 
> I'll bet that, in either case, if you could get the MFS file system partition data, from both drives, and post it, it may shed some light on a way to get everybody that extra storage that has been elusive to the DIY community.
> 
> I know that it may not be something you really want to do, but "doing that little extra and sharing the pertinent data" is how we thrive here.


It was s DVR Dude drive. If DVR Dude has no objections I can post the MFS file. But it's up to him.


----------



## tcfcameron

gespears said:


> It was s DVR Dude drive. If DVR Dude has no objections I can post the MFS file. But it's up to him.


Well, I can't see him giving his blessing. But, that may not be necessary.

You've posted a way to successfully clone one of his drives (which he can't be happy about, nor can he do anything about), so it's only a matter of time before somebody else uses the same method and willingly posts the MFS data.

Thanks for the original heads-up on a cloning program that works with his drives.

For those that missed that post: Paragon Drive Copy, using raw mode.


----------



## gamo62

tcfcameron said:


> Well, I can't see him giving his blessing. But, that may not be necessary.
> 
> You've posted a way to successfully clone one of his drives (which he can't be happy about, nor can he do anything about), so it's only a matter of time before somebody else uses the same method and willingly posts the MFS data.
> 
> Thanks for the original heads-up on a cloning program that works with his drives.
> 
> For those that missed that post: Paragon Drive Copy, using raw mode.


This info won't take too much business away from him. Most of his sales are probably from people who wouldn't spend this much time trying to do it themselves.


----------



## gespears

tcfcameron said:


> Well, I can't see him giving his blessing. But, that may not be necessary.
> 
> You've posted a way to successfully clone one of his drives (which he can't be happy about, nor can he do anything about), so it's only a matter of time before somebody else uses the same method and willingly posts the MFS data.


I'm sure that Comer's initial copy procedure would copy it as well. I'm too lazy to try and get Linux up and running and was just suggesting a windows based solution to backing up your TiVo drive.

There are already plenty of unscrupulous people trying to sell copies of his drives, so that is nothing new to him as discussed before on this forum. But as stated earlier, he has a devoted following of people who want a quality drive backed by quality service and a warranty. I'm sure there are many, many TiVo owners that would like to expand their TiVo systems storage capacities who would never think or bother to look on a forum such as this to find a way to do it themselves, as well as people like me who would rather not screw with it.


----------



## tcfcameron

Please, let's not clog this thread up with debating/opinions regarding the moral aspects of cloning a DVR_Dude drive, which is where things seem to be headed. There are plenty of other threads already chocked-full of such discussion.

I see now, that what I posted originally, could be misunderstood. I'm not advocating "ripping off" DVR_Dude. I am trying to "put the genie back in the bottle" with this post.

I was just happy, as I always am, when any DIY tools/methods are brought to light. Even if said tools already exist, alternatives are always a good thing.



gespears said:


> I'm sure that Comer's initial copy procedure would copy it as well. I'm too lazy to try and get Linux up and running and was just suggesting a windows based solution to backing up your TiVo drive.
> 
> There are already plenty of unscrupulous people trying to sell copies of his drives, so that is nothing new to him as discussed before on this forum. But as stated earlier, he has a devoted following of people who want a quality drive backed by quality service and a warranty. I'm sure there are many, many TiVo owners that would like to expand their TiVo systems storage capacities who would never think or bother to look on a forum such as this to find a way to do it themselves, as well as people like me who would rather not screw with it.


----------



## AbMagFab

I'm confused trying to get through this thread...

Is there now a tool available to replace a stock Premiere drive with a 1-2TB drive (e.g. WD Green)?

Or is the only solution to buy from DVRDude?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jonathan_S

AbMagFab said:


> I'm confused trying to get through this thread...
> 
> Is there now a tool available to replace a stock Premiere drive with a 1-2TB drive (e.g. WD Green)?
> 
> Or is the only solution to buy from DVRDude?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Yes there is. You need the boot cd of Comer's JavaMFS tool

Or see the step by step instructions from this [post=8165515]post[/post]


----------



## lessd

AbMagFab said:


> I'm confused trying to get through this thread...
> 
> Is there now a tool available to replace a stock Premiere drive with a 1-2TB drive (e.g. WD Green)?
> 
> Or is the only solution to buy from DVRDude?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Both options are in this thread, but I would go with DVRDude.


----------



## AbMagFab

lessd said:


> Both options are in this thread, but I would go with DVRDude.


Except unless I can repair it myself, it's not really an option.

Why would you go with DVR dude?

And would you be willing to share a link to where the DIY option is? I couldn't find it by trolling around, but I gave up quickly...

Thanks!


----------



## comer

AbMagFab said:


> And would you be willing to share a link to where the DIY option is? I couldn't find it by trolling around, but I gave up quickly...


It's in my signature


----------



## Shagger

AbMagFab said:


> Except unless I can repair it myself, it's not really an option.
> 
> Why would you go with DVR dude?
> 
> And would you be willing to share a link to where the DIY option is? I couldn't find it by trolling around, but I gave up quickly...
> 
> Thanks!


It's EASY - using Comers utility its so easy, if I can do it, a trained monkey can do it.


----------



## AbMagFab

Shagger said:


> It's EASY - using Comers utility its so easy, if I can do it, a trained monkey can do it.


Any idea why that other guy said buying the drive is better?


----------



## AbMagFab

comer said:


> It's in my signature


Thanks! Will try it out this weekend.


----------



## Shagger

AbMagFab said:


> Any idea why that other guy said buying the drive is better?


Not sure, but it does require a bit of work - getting the drive, turning off the intellipark if needed, opening the Tivo, cloning the drive... For me it was worth it saving the $100 over the price of the XL and getting twice the HD recording time.


----------



## AbMagFab

Shagger said:


> Not sure, but it does require a bit of work - getting the drive, turning off the intellipark if needed, opening the Tivo, cloning the drive... For me it was worth it saving the $100 over the price of the XL and getting twice the HD recording time.


Even more so, it means you can do it again if a drive fails.

Can any Premiere drive be used, or does it have to be the specific one from the Premiere you're upgrading? Understand a C&DE would be necessary due to the S/N mismatch.


----------



## comer

Shagger said:


> Not sure, but it does require a bit of work - getting the drive, turning off the intellipark if needed, opening the Tivo, cloning the drive... For me it was worth it saving the $100 over the price of the XL and getting twice the HD recording time.


Opening the Tivo and installing the drive would still be required for upgrade, wouldn't it?
I think the main point - is that it saves one from connecting the drive to _other_ computer, burning CD, pressing buttons... It scares some people. I don't judge, I am just stating the fact.


----------



## comer

AbMagFab said:


> Can any Premiere drive be used, or does it have to be the specific one from the Premiere you're upgrading? Understand a C&DE would be necessary due to the S/N mismatch.


With that understanding - yes.


----------



## steve614

I think I'm one of those people on the fence with the issue.
I'm capable of following instructions and I'm not scared of computers, so I could easily do an upgrade myself.
However, I'm lazy so I could also see going the plug and play route.


----------



## teewow

I just bought a Samsung F3 Spinpoint 1TB (7200rpm) drive for $55. I plan to replace the internal drive.

Any gotchas regarding this drive. Any intellipark stuff I need to do ? Thanks !


----------



## aaronwt

teewow said:


> I just bought a Samsung F3 Spinpoint 1TB (7200rpm) drive for $55. I plan to replace the internal drive.
> 
> Any gotchas regarding this drive. Any intellipark stuff I need to do ? Thanks !



WOW!! $55 for a 1TB drive now. I paid 5X that for my first 1TB drives which I put in my S3 boxes.(still going strong in them. My girlfriend has two of my original S3 boxes)


----------



## richsadams

teewow said:


> I just bought a Samsung F3 Spinpoint 1TB (7200rpm) drive for $55. I plan to replace the internal drive.
> 
> Any gotchas regarding this drive. Any intellipark stuff I need to do ? Thanks !


I hope it works is all. I tried using that particular drive to upgrade a TiVo HD and it would never boot up. Others have had some success, yet others have had theirs quit eventually. I don't know what it is about them that causes problems. Based on the ongoing issues with S3 and THD upgrades they have never been included on the recommended HDD upgrade list.

FWIW I'm using the Samsung drive I bought as a computer backup drive and it works fine.

In any case, AFAIK there's nothing else to be done except give it a go. Best of luck!


----------



## donnoh

tcfcameron said:


> Please, let's not clog this thread up with debating/opinions regarding the moral aspects of cloning a DVR_Dude drive, which is where things seem to be headed. There are plenty of other threads already chocked-full of such discussion.
> 
> I see now, that what I posted originally, could be misunderstood. I'm not advocating "ripping off" DVR_Dude. I am trying to "put the genie back in the bottle" with this post.
> 
> I was just happy, as I always am, when any DIY tools/methods are brought to light. Even if said tools already exist, alternatives are always a good thing.


Comer I sincerely hope you don't try and steal DVRDudes work. I have paid him for his work and until you can do what he did without his help you should STFU.


----------



## comer

donnoh said:


> Comer I sincerely hope you don't try and steal DVRDudes work. I have paid him for his work and until you can do what he did without his help you should STFU.


Meeee???


----------



## SullyND

donnoh said:


> Comer I sincerely hope you don't try and steal DVRDudes work. I have paid him for his work and until you can do what he did without his help you should STFU.


What? STFU? Seriously? I think you should understand the facts before telling someone who has been doing a lot of hard work, and giving it away for free, to STFU.


----------



## gamo62

donnoh said:


> Comer I sincerely hope you don't try and steal DVRDudes work. I have paid him for his work and until you can do what he did without his help you should STFU.


Well, that's your fault for paying. You did have other options as does everyone on here. Please take your own advice. Off we go now...


----------



## tcfcameron

Since my first attempt the stop the next two weeks worth of posts in this thread from becoming the same as what has already happened in other threads, I am posting a link to a current thread that has already been taken hostage.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=457568

I know I can't stop this. I know better than to try beyond what I have, at this point. But, I can suggest that there is a better place, and hope that all the moral arguments, venom, and napalm, maybe, just maybe, will migrate there.

Here's keeping my fingers crossed...

Any arguments, venom, or napalm lobbed in my direction, on this thread, will be ignored. I'll be too busy using Paragon Drive Copy (raw mode), to make full backups of my four 2TB TiVos, that were imaged/expanded to 317 HD hours, using FREE tools.


----------



## orangeboy

donnoh said:


> Comer I sincerely hope you don't try and steal DVRDudes work. I have paid him for his work and until you can do what he did without his help you should STFU.


You should probably check out this entire thread at MFSLive.org to get an understanding of comer's knowledge on the subject, and the efforts made by comer.

Here's a small chunk:


comer said:


> Now, I did not use mfsadd - as I learned Tivo I wrote my own bits and pieces in Java to quickly examine structures. Bits and pieces came together in time and now I have my own entirely-Java tool.
> 
> It won't be hard to adjust mfsadd:
> make it SATA compatible (support /dev/sd*)
> size = size & ~(minalloc - 1); does not work! because in Premiere data chunk is 20480 which is not a power of 2! The correct way is size = size - (size % minalloc); It is in more than one place!
> change FS pointers offset - in Premiere it is 160 instead of 8 as it used to be (zonemap.c: fsmem_base = htonl (*(unsigned int *) (last + 1)) - (sizeof (*last) + htonl (last->num) * 4) + htonl (last->length) * 512 + 512 + 160
> check the zone size (it may work, but it's based on pointer size, which may not give the correct result):
> 
> now (may or may not work): sizeof (zone_header_64) + 4 + (sizeof (bitmap_header) + sizeof (bitmap_header *)) * (order) + <sizeof ints in bitmaps>; where <sizeof ints in bitmaps> is based on "(bits + 62) / 32" (for the love of God - WHY?)
> 
> proposed (proven to give the correct result): sizeof (zone_header_64) + sizeof (bitmap_header) * order + sizeof(int) * order + sizeof(int) * order + <sizeof ints in bitmaps>; where <sizeof ints in bitmaps> is based on "(bits/32) + 1 - (15 / (8 + bits))"
> 
> I will backup and examine the structure later. I wonder if Tivo "coalesced" partitions itself or actually combined and created two zones, two partitions as it was but bigger?
> 
> EDIT: forgot important point about chunk size


So either:

comer can walk the walk, or 
comer got EXTREMELY lucky talking the talk with the developers of WinMFS/MFSLive/MFSTools and did indeed steal DVRDude's work.

I'm leaning towards the former, and away from the latter...


----------



## RichB

orangeboy said:


> You should probably check out this entire thread at MFSLive.org to get an understanding of comer's knowledge on the subject, and the efforts made by comer.
> 
> Here's a small chunk:
> 
> So either:
> 
> comer can walk the walk, or
> comer got EXTREMELY lucky talking the talk with the developers of WinMFS/MFSLive/MFSTools and did indeed steal DVRDude's work.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the former, and away from the latter...


Do you know where DVRDudes got his information?
What if it was leaked or stolen from TiVo employee's?
What if he is a TiVo employee?

Oh my 

- Rich


----------



## wp746911

gotta love the 'thanks' some people give to comer for his countless selfless hours he has spent helping us out...


----------



## t1voproof

I don't think DVR Dude is a Tivo employee. His Ebay listing ships from Virginia and I imagine most Tivo employees are in California.


----------



## jmill

wp746911 said:


> gotta love the 'thanks' some people give to comer for his countless selfless hours he has spent helping us out...


Hate to say it, but some people are idiots. Comer is a great guy and I truly mean it.

In any case, let's keep discussion on topic. As was mentioned above, all whining and random thoughs need to go into different thread.


----------



## orangeboy

RichB said:


> Do you know where DVRDudes got his information?
> What if it was leaked or stolen from TiVo employee's?
> What if he is a TiVo employee?
> 
> Oh my
> 
> - Rich





t1voproof said:


> I don't think DVR Dude is a Tivo employee. His Ebay listing ships from Virginia and I imagine most Tivo employees are in California.


From what I gather, there are 2 or 3 people that have overcome the Premiere drive expansion problem, with an employee of Weaknees being perhaps the first to do so. I say 2 or 3 people (or maybe even only 1, but I don't think so), with the possibility of DVRDude being the same Weaknees employee, and comer. I honestly believe all solutions now available were created independently through hard work and effort.


----------



## aaronwt

gamo62 said:


> Well, that's your fault for paying. You did have other options as does everyone on here. Please take your own advice. Off we go now...


What options were there in the Spring?

(Not that I'm condoning anyone to tell someone to "STFU" which I think is rather rude. Especially with all the work that Comer has done and shared with everyone)


----------



## comer

orangeboy said:


> ... with the possibility of DVRDude being the same Weaknees employee, and comer.


Ahh! Plot thikens!  I don't know how to prove it, even if I should, but here's my word - I am *not* DVR_dude, nor am I have *any* connection to Weaknees, DVR Upgrade, Tivo or any other commercial enterprise related to all or any of the above. Except that I own a Tivo device and have a valid lifetime subscription, of course


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> Ahh! Plot thikens!  I don't know how to prove it, even if I should, but here's my word - I am *not* DVR_dude, nor am I have *any* connection to Weaknees, DVR Upgrade, Tivo or any other commercial enterprise related to all or any of the above. Except that I own a Tivo device and have a valid lifetime subscription, of course


D'oh! That's all they needed! Expect the TIMBs (TiVo Men In Black) to be at your doorstep any moment now!


----------



## dshlyam

donnoh said:


> Comer I sincerely hope you don't try and steal DVRDudes work. I have paid him for his work and until you can do what he did without his help you should STFU.


Unbelievable...

I know I'm adding fuel to this and patronizing the troll, but I just have to say something...

To answer donnoh in kind, WTFRU to tell someone to STFU? What have YOU done to help the community? Are you sad that you're not even smart to follow a few simple steps to upgrade your Tivo yourself and keep all your recordings and settings and had to actually pay DvrDude through the nose to get an expanded drive? Better yet, pay for 2 drives? (IMO, if I HAD to have an expanded drive before it could be done for free thanks to Comer, I would've gotten ONE drive and cloned as many times as I need it, but it just me.) Buying TWO drives proves to me that you're a not technically competent person, which is OK in itself but you have no business dissing others who doing a great service to the community.

You suggest that something is being stolen perhaps. Do you have a qualification as an IP attorney? Do you know who's "stealing" from whom? Have you considered that DvrDude and others maybe engaging in the same "stealing" by reverse engineering of Tivo's IP?

(BTW, I do not think either DvrDude, Weaknees, Comer or anyone else here is really doing anything improper, just saying that if you want to go down the rabbit hole, it's possible to construe that anyone who examines or modified Tivo devices is "stealing", i.e. based on DCMA. It is OK then to "steal" from Tivo but not from the DvrDude, aka "the thief" under this theory? AGAIN, note the quotations marks, as I don't think anyone is really stealing anything at all, just trying to point a fallacy in donnoh's argument)

I thank that DvrDude is doing a great service and that he should not be afraid that free tools will ever take away his business... While world is full of people like donnoh, his business model is safe. What is sad is that people like Comer will eventually get upset and go do something more rewarding that trying help unappreciative folks like donnoh.

P.S. Is "donnoh" a iNet slang for "don't know"? If so, it's very fitting, IMO.


----------



## orangeboy

comer said:


> orangeboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...with the possibility of DVRDude being the same Weaknees employee, and comer.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh! Plot thikens!  I don't know how to prove it, even if I should, but here's my word - I am *not* DVR_dude, nor am I have *any* connection to Weaknees, DVR Upgrade, Tivo or any other commercial enterprise related to all or any of the above. Except that I own a Tivo device and have a valid lifetime subscription, of course
Click to expand...

My fault for poor syntactical grouping. I was inferring DVRDude and Weaknees tech of possibly being one in the same, and the second person being you.


----------



## lickwid

richsadams said:


> Understood. It's quite possible that hddscan hasn't caught up with the 2TB drives...or may never, it's hard to say and the old HTF program may only work on 1TB or smaller drives as well. I could had sworn that I remember some folks being able to adjust the AAM on the 2TB Hitachi drives though...but it's becoming a blur anymore.
> 
> It'll be good to know if you're successful...making you a bit of a TiVo Pioneer yourself!


I just wanted to update that I haven't found a way to get the new Hitachi 2TB drive to enable AAM. It seems that it is disabled within the firmware. I even e-mailed Hitachi support and they confirmed as much. It's louder than the stock drive, but I'll live with it for now.


----------



## steve614

richsadams said:


> D'oh! That's all they needed! Expect the TIMBs (TiVo Men In Black) to be at your doorstep any moment now!


----------



## donnoh

dshlyam said:


> Unbelievable...
> 
> I know I'm adding fuel to this and patronizing the troll, but I just have to say something...
> 
> To answer donnoh in kind, WTFRU to tell someone to STFU? What have YOU done to help the community? Are you sad that you're not even smart to follow a few simple steps to upgrade your Tivo yourself and keep all your recordings and settings and had to actually pay DvrDude through the nose to get an expanded drive? Better yet, pay for 2 drives? (IMO, if I HAD to have an expanded drive before it could be done for free thanks to Comer, I would've gotten ONE drive and cloned as many times as I need it, but it just me.) Buying TWO drives proves to me that you're a not technically competent person, which is OK in itself but you have no business dissing others who doing a great service to the community.
> 
> You suggest that something is being stolen perhaps. Do you have a qualification as an IP attorney? Do you know who's "stealing" from whom? Have you considered that DvrDude and others maybe engaging in the same "stealing" by reverse engineering of Tivo's IP?
> 
> (BTW, I do not think either DvrDude, Weaknees, Comer or anyone else here is really doing anything improper, just saying that if you want to go down the rabbit hole, it's possible to construe that anyone who examines or modified Tivo devices is "stealing", i.e. based on DCMA. It is OK then to "steal" from Tivo but not from the DvrDude, aka "the thief" under this theory? AGAIN, note the quotations marks, as I don't think anyone is really stealing anything at all, just trying to point a fallacy in donnoh's argument)
> 
> I thank that DvrDude is doing a great service and that he should not be afraid that free tools will ever take away his business... While world is full of people like donnoh, his business model is safe. What is sad is that people like Comer will eventually get upset and go do something more rewarding that trying help unappreciative folks like donnoh.
> 
> P.S. Is "donnoh" a iNet slang for "don't know"? If so, it's very fitting, IMO.


Peace


----------



## richsadams

lickwid said:


> I just wanted to update that I haven't found a way to get the new Hitachi 2TB drive to enable AAM. It seems that it is disabled within the firmware. I even e-mailed Hitachi support and they confirmed as much. It's louder than the stock drive, but I'll live with it for now.


 That's very good info. :up: AFAIK they are still good drives, but not as quiet as stock TiVo drives as you point out, so that may be okay for some but might dissuade others. Duely noted for future reference.


----------



## richsadams

steve614 said:


>


They're heeeerrrrre!


----------



## cherry ghost

myblubu said:


> My drive arrived today! - Manufacture date is 9/22/10 - Do you think I'm safe regarding the Intellipark feature??? How should I verify?





richsadams said:


> The only way to fnd out would be to perform the upgrade, install the drive and see if it will reboot from a menu restart. If not (or if it doesn't boot up at all) then you'll probably need to run wdidle3 to extend or disable the Intellipark timeout. Not very scientific, but that's about it.
> 
> Best of luck and let us know how it goes!





myblubu said:


> Thanks for both responses! I was just wondering if I should disable intellipark anyway, so both comments came in handy. Thanks!


any update?


----------



## gespears

Hey Comer,

Any fruits of your labor to enable the expasion drive after putting a 2tb in the TP? I read somewhere (maybe earlier in this thread) that some of the people who had originally sold the 4TB expansion (2 internal and 2 external) had been having problems with this configuration.

Anybody know any more about this? I think it would be interesting to keep up with this for those of us that might want to expand even further later.

Thanks.


----------



## comer

gespears said:


> Hey Comer,
> 
> Any fruits of your labor to enable the expasion drive after putting a 2tb in the TP? I read somewhere (maybe earlier in this thread) that some of the people who had originally sold the 4TB expansion (2 internal and 2 external) had been having problems with this configuration.
> 
> Anybody know any more about this? I think it would be interesting to keep up with this for those of us that might want to expand even further later.
> 
> Thanks.


Do you mean - add an external drive?
I am currently moving data from 2T drive in NAS to the new 3T drive to have 2T drive for testing. Meanwhile, I used smaller drives - like original 320G + 100G laptop SATA  They work fine it seems. I know new recordings went onto the external, because the internal drive was 99% full.


----------



## gespears

Yes Comer, that's what I meant. Sounds like you're having some success. That's good news. What's the status of the 3 TB?


----------



## comer

gespears said:


> Yes Comer, that's what I meant. Sounds like you're having some success. That's good news. What's the status of the 3 TB?


Here


----------



## gespears

comer said:


> Here


Sorry, read your post too quickly. I thought it said you were working with it again for the TiVo. I thought maybe you found a way around the issue noted before.


----------



## AbMagFab

Okay, did the upgrade overnight, it appeared to work fine. Used a WD 2TB Green drive.

Popped it back into my Premiere, and it's now hung at "Just a few minutes more."

Any ideas?


----------



## comer

AbMagFab said:


> Okay, did the upgrade overnight, it appeared to work fine. Used a WD 2TB Green drive.
> 
> Popped it back into my Premiere, and it's now hung at "Just a few minutes more."
> 
> Any ideas?


Everybody is receiving 14.6 tonight, may be that's what it is doing? Is it still stuck? Try rebooting again.


----------



## AbMagFab

comer said:


> Everybody is receiving 14.6 tonight, may be that's what it is doing? Is it still stuck? Try rebooting again.


I just checked, it seems fine now. I guess it just took forever?

Thanks again for all your hard work!


----------



## Cspot

AbMagFab said:


> Okay, did the upgrade overnight, it appeared to work fine. Used a WD 2TB Green drive.
> 
> Popped it back into my Premiere, and it's now hung at "Just a few minutes more."
> 
> Any ideas?


which drive was it, wd20ears or wd20evds?


----------



## AbMagFab

Cspot said:


> which drive was it, wd20ears or wd20evds?


Not sure, have both. Probably EARS though.


----------



## comer

AbMagFab said:


> Not sure, have both. Probably EARS though.


Oh, I see where this is going  The next question would be - did you disable IntelliPark on your drive(s)?


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> Everybody is receiving 14.6 tonight, may be that's what it is doing? Is it still stuck? Try rebooting again.


I received 14.6 a couple of weeks ago and it did take "forever" to boot up...staying on the "Just a few minutes more screen" for quite a while. I happened to replace my router the same day and when I tried a network test on my TiVo's noted that both had a "Pending restart" notice. I pulled the plug and had them update immediately.

I haven't upgraded the internal drive on the Premiere XL yet, so can't speak to the possibility of an issue but it looks like only one member ran into any problems. Fingers crossed.


----------



## KenVa

I got 14.6 a couple days ago and everything seems fine with my wd20evds drive that I had previously upgraded to. And no I didn't do the IntelliPark. I forgot about it and after I had it in use I didn't feel like reopening it again since everything included doing a restart seemed to be fine.


----------



## moyekj

Has anyone tried comer's Linux Live upgrade method with a SATA-eSATA or SATA-USB adapter? Only computer I have at home is a laptop which is why I ask. I upgraded an S3 using WinMfs before without any problems using it. I guess the real question is will Linux drivers recognize a SATA drive attached to such an adapter?
Even if it does I suppose if you are essentially doing drive mirroring then you have 2 have 2 adapters - 1 for source drive and 1 for destination, so I guess that wouldn't work either. So short of having enough space to copy the source drive to file I guess this is out of the question?


----------



## Cspot

AbMagFab said:


> Not sure, have both. Probably EARS though.


that works....thanks!


----------



## dshlyam

moyekj said:


> Has anyone tried comer's Linux Live upgrade method with a SATA-eSATA or SATA-USB adapter? Only computer I have at home is a laptop which is why I ask. I upgraded an S3 using WinMfs before without any problems using it. I guess the real question is will Linux drivers recognize a SATA drive attached to such an adapter?
> Even if it does I suppose if you are essentially doing drive mirroring then you have 2 have 2 adapters - 1 for source drive and 1 for destination, so I guess that wouldn't work either. So short of having enough space to copy the source drive to file I guess this is out of the question?


I guess it depends on a specific hardware, but using Comer's boot CD I was able to copy 5 Tivos running in parallel on 3 different PCs with different configs. Lenovo laptop with built in eSATA (second drive via USB), the Toshiba M5 laptop with generic PNY eSATA CardBus adapter and another PC via USB only. Everything was recognized and worked like a charm. Expect the process to take about twice as long with UBS in mix though, but it's to be expected.


----------



## jmill

KenVa said:


> I got 14.6 a couple days ago and everything seems fine with my wd20evds drive that I had previously upgraded to. And no I didn't do the IntelliPark. I forgot about it and after I had it in use I didn't feel like reopening it again since everything included doing a restart seemed to be fine.


TiVo Premiere does not require Intellipark to be disabled. TiVo fixed the bug in their software with the release of TiVo 14.x software.


----------



## Anthony GT

moyekj said:


> Has anyone tried comer's Linux Live upgrade method with a SATA-eSATA or SATA-USB adapter? Only computer I have at home is a laptop which is why I ask. I upgraded an S3 using WinMfs before without any problems using it. I guess the real question is will Linux drivers recognize a SATA drive attached to such an adapter?
> Even if it does I suppose if you are essentially doing drive mirroring then you have 2 have 2 adapters - 1 for source drive and 1 for destination, so I guess that wouldn't work either. So short of having enough space to copy the source drive to file I guess this is out of the question?


Yes, I did mine with SATA-USB adapters. It did make the copy process much slower as dshlyam noted, but it worked fine.


----------



## txporter

moyekj said:


> Has anyone tried comer's Linux Live upgrade method with a SATA-eSATA or SATA-USB adapter? Only computer I have at home is a laptop which is why I ask. I upgraded an S3 using WinMfs before without any problems using it. I guess the real question is will Linux drivers recognize a SATA drive attached to such an adapter?
> Even if it does I suppose if you are essentially doing drive mirroring then you have 2 have 2 adapters - 1 for source drive and 1 for destination, so I guess that wouldn't work either. So short of having enough space to copy the source drive to file I guess this is out of the question?


I used USB-SATA adapters as well. You can do everything except disable intelliboot with it.


----------



## NOLA Sam

Hopefully someone can help me with this issue. I bought a Thermaltake BlacX duet Here: http://*******.com/2chrjtf.

With the drives plugged in, I had to assign them each a letter in windows, as they wouldnt show up like an external drive and auto assign a letter. When I attempt to run Comers CD, it says no tivo drive is attached, but I have both the Tivo HDD and the 2TB attached through the Thermaltake module. Is there anything I can do to get this to work? Is this a common issue? I would figure this would work just like the usb adapters, but apparently I am hitting an issue here. Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

Sam


----------



## moyekj

dshlyam said:


> I guess it depends on a specific hardware, but using Comer's boot CD I was able to copy 5 Tivos running in parallel on 3 different PCs with different configs. Lenovo laptop with built in eSATA (second drive via USB), the Toshiba M5 laptop with generic PNY eSATA CardBus adapter and another PC via USB only. Everything was recognized and worked like a charm. Expect the process to take about twice as long with UBS in mix though, but it's to be expected.





Anthony GT said:


> Yes, I did mine with SATA-USB adapters. It did make the copy process much slower as dshlyam noted, but it worked fine.





txporter said:


> I used USB-SATA adapters as well. You can do everything except disable intelliboot with it.


Great, thanks guys.


----------



## NOLA Sam

Is there anyone on here that has links to already modded disk drive images? If my Thermaltake doesn't have a quick fix, the wife is gonna have a cow!


----------



## richsadams

NOLA Sam said:


> Hopefully someone can help me with this issue. I bought a Thermaltake BlacX duet Here: http://*******.com/2chrjtf.
> 
> With the drives plugged in, I had to assign them each a letter in windows, as they wouldnt show up like an external drive and auto assign a letter. When I attempt to run Comers CD, it says no tivo drive is attached, but I have both the Tivo HDD and the 2TB attached through the Thermaltake module. Is there anything I can do to get this to work? Is this a common issue? I would figure this would work just like the usb adapters, but apparently I am hitting an issue here. Any Help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Sam


Rut-roh. Are you saying that you have both the original TiVo drive and your new drive in the dock? And then are you saying that you assigned a drive letter to each one via Windows? If that's the case your wife is about to give birth. If you assigned a Windows drive letter to your TiVo drive you've corrupted the boot image.

You cannot, should not ever use Windows to do anything associated with the TiVo Premiere. This is a Linux program, nothing to do with Windows. When you use Comer's boot disk, you're booting into Linux, again nothing to do with Windows.

You can try to reinstall your original drive in your TiVo to see if it will boot up, but it sounds like you may have already done that and it didn't. If that's the case I'm afraid you'll be out of luck as far are recovering anything you had on your TiVo drive.

However you're in luck because you can get an OEM image from DVRUpgrade called Instant Cake:

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

I say that you're in luck because DVRUpgrade just added the Premiere images recently. You can download Instant Cake (be sure to pick the correct image, Premiere or Premiere XL) and re-image your original hard drive. That will basically give you a brand new TiVo. You'll need to follow all of the steps to set it up again including pairing the cable cards, etc.

That's probably not what you (or your wife) wanted to hear but at least you can start again from scratch. Be sure to read all of the instructions, follow them to the letter and don't get creative.



NOLA Sam said:


> Is there anyone on here that has links to already modded disk drive images? If my Thermaltake doesn't have a quick fix, the wife is gonna have a cow!


Unfortunately that won't work as the drive is basically married to your TiVo. If you were successful TiVo would fire up but you'd have to run Clear and Delete everything and be back to square one. A copy of Instant Cake is about your only choice right now.

Perhaps now would be a good time to invite your wife to the nice dinner you've been talking about.


----------



## NOLA Sam

Is the 2tb drive done for? Put drive back in the TiVo and it's fine and working. Do I need a new 2Tb drive?


----------



## comer

NOLA Sam said:


> Is the 2tb drive done for? Put drive back in the TiVo and it's fine and working. Do I need a new 2Tb drive?


If your original drive still works in Tivo then you are in luck  No need for InstaCake. I don't know why that dock does not work, but you still can do an upgrade - just make sure you connect drives either via SATA or SATA-USB adapters. Those are inexpensive


----------



## moyekj

One last question if you please. I only need 1TB drive for my Premiere (plenty for me). Can someone suggest a drive that doesn't require Intellipark disabling since I can only use SATA-USB adapters to do upgrade? (I'm really doing it to have a backup Premiere drive than to add more space). I looked at various threads and it seems like ordering a WD drive depending on when it was manufactured one may have to disable Intellipark, so I don't want to take that chance.


----------



## NOLA Sam

comer said:


> If your original drive still works in Tivo then you are in luck  No need for InstaCake. I don't know why that dock does not work, but you still can do an upgrade - just make sure you connect drives either via SATA or SATA-USB adapters. Those are inexpensive


So do I have this right?

The 2TB drive is not ruined, I can still use it as an upgrade drive, I just need to get a different sata adapter? Can you recommend one that is known to work? I think I will need a USB one, as my laptop has an eSata port, but only one. Here is my other question.

Will an original tivo premier harddrive, work in a different tivo premier that is not its native? I just received a replacement unit for one of the premiers I have that the tuner went out, can I take out the fresh drive and put in my other drive that I have stuff recorded on? Thanks for the help fellas.

-Sam


----------



## steve614

NOLA Sam said:


> Here is my other question.
> 
> Will an original tivo premier harddrive, work in a different tivo premier that is not its native? I just received a replacement unit for one of the premiers I have that the tuner went out, can I take out the fresh drive and put in my other drive that I have stuff recorded on? Thanks for the help fellas.
> 
> -Sam


Yes, you can "transplant" hard drives from one Tivo to another of the same model, but you have to do a Clear & Delete to make them work properly so your recordings will not be saved.


----------



## NOLA Sam

steve614 said:


> Yes, you can "transplant" hard drives from one Tivo to another of the same model, but you have to do a Clear & Delete to make them work properly so your recordings will not be saved.


How do you Clear and Delete? Is that a built in process within the Tivo?


----------



## innocentfreak

NOLA Sam said:


> How do you Clear and Delete? Is that a built in process within the Tivo?


Yeah it is under settings.


----------



## NOLA Sam

thanks. Does anyone have suggestions on usb to sata adapters that work with this operation?


I am in a unique position here....I purchased 2 new tivos, one has a bad tuner. I want to image that ones hard drive (which has stuff on it) and upgrade it to the 2TB. Can I do this then put the modded 2TB into the new tivo thats still in the box? Or do I have to do it with the tivo hard drive that is native to the box that I am upgrading?

Hope this makes sense.

-Sam


----------



## NOLA Sam

richsadams said:


> However you're in luck because you can get an OEM image from DVRUpgrade called Instant Cake:
> 
> http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm
> 
> I say that you're in luck because DVRUpgrade just added the Premiere images recently.


Rich, Instacake says there is no images for Premier.


----------



## richsadams

NOLA Sam said:


> Is the 2tb drive done for? Put drive back in the TiVo and it's fine and working. Do I need a new 2Tb drive?


That's very good news. Phew! As mentioned your 2TB drive will still work fine. It will be formatted when you perform the upgrade.

Also as mentioned, you can swap drives in a TiVo as long as they are like-for-like; Premiere to Premiere, Premiere XL to Premiere XL, etc. Once you boot up a TiVo with a foreign drive you will get an error message and at that point you can run C&D. That will essentially give you a "new" TiVo so you'll need to set it up as if you just took it out of the box.

FWIW I'd try running the program using the dual dock again...there's really no reason it shouldn't work. I have the same dock, but single and it works with Comer's program just fine.

Just make sure you have your computer set to boot from the optical (CD/DVD ROM drive) first, then the hard drive (windows, etc.). If you have Comer's disk in the optical drive it will boot into Linux first and the program should recognize the TiVo and the new drive.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. (Guess you got out of dinner for two eh?  )


----------



## richsadams

NOLA Sam said:


> Rich, Instacake says there is no images for Premier.


Scroll down...


----------



## NOLA Sam

richsadams said:


> FWIW I'd try running the program using the dual dock again...there's really no reason it shouldn't work. I have the same dock, but single and it works with Comer's program just fine.


It was hooked up, and the program just kept saying no Tivo Drive detected, I tried several configurations to no avail. Did you use yours to do any upgrades? I am looking at Amazon and they have some cheap cable setups to do this, and cheap scares me  I'd like to buy one that someone here uses just for peace of mind.

RE Instacake. I saw it listed, proceed as if you are trying to purchase it.


----------



## richsadams

NOLA Sam said:


> It was hooked up, and the program just kept saying no Tivo Drive detected, I tried several configurations to no avail. Did you use yours to do any upgrades? I am looking at Amazon and they have some cheap cable setups to do this, and cheap scares me  I'd like to buy one that someone here uses just for peace of mind.
> 
> RE Instacake. I saw it listed, proceed as if you are trying to purchase it.


That's interesting. Here's the dock I have (that works with Comer's program):

http://amzn.to/cKkXZx

Although not as elegant and a bit more work to connect I've also used one of these successfully:

http://amzn.to/bKNEkN

I guess I should have asked, did you consider connecting your drives to your computer's motherboard directly? Most computers made within the last few years usually have several open SATA ports. That's really the fool-proof way of doing it plus the transfers are much faster than with a USB dock or adapter.

Ah, I see what you're saying about InstantCake. I knew it wasn't there when I last checked, but saw it listed today so I assumed they had it for sale now...silly me.  Looks like they're getting there but I don't think they should have added it to the list until was available. Sorry 'bout that.


----------



## NOLA Sam

I will need two of the less attractive cable sets you posted, correct?


----------



## richsadams

NOLA Sam said:


> I will need two of the less attractive cable sets you posted, correct?


Yes, or two docks or a dock and the adapter...some combination. I edited my post above with a question...have you considered connecting both drives to a couple of open SATA ports on your computer's MB? All you need is a SATA cable and a power cable for each:

http://amzn.to/bumwkd

If your computer has Molex power cables, one of these SATA adapters works well:

http://amzn.to/av3sAA

It's odd that your dual dock doesn't work. IIRC someone else used one successfully but I guess you never know.


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> Scroll down...


I did and it said none available for the Premiere, only the complete drive is available.


----------



## NOLA Sam

I wish I did have a desktop with available sata ports. I have a Dell XPS from 2003 and I am pretty sure it does not have the ports on the mobo. I have a few laptops that I was going to use for this.

I will check the old dell, but I wont hold my breath


----------



## richsadams

NOLA Sam said:


> I wish I did have a desktop with available sata ports. I have a Dell XPS from 2003 and I am pretty sure it does not have the ports on the mobo. I have a few laptops that I was going to use for this.
> 
> I will check the old dell, but I wont hold my breath


Have a look, you never know. Might be worth looking up the computer/MB online to pinpoint SATA ports if they're there.


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> I did and it said none available for the Premiere, only the complete drive is available.


Soooo...wondering why they are listed under IC?


----------



## NOLA Sam

It's a sick joke that they're playing, thats all 

so when I get the new cables in and get ready to give this another shot, I dont even hook these things up until the PC is off and I am about to boot onto Comer's disk, right?


----------



## comer

NOLA Sam said:


> I will need two of the less attractive cable sets you posted, correct?


I use this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...cm_re=sata_usb_adapter-_-12-156-014-_-Product 
Comes with power brick for SATA drive as well.


----------



## comer

NOLA Sam said:


> It's a sick joke that they're playing, thats all
> 
> so when I get the new cables in and get ready to give this another shot, I dont even hook these things up until the PC is off and I am about to boot onto Comer's disk, right?


Correct. When you have everything ready, disk burned and in the drive, or usb stick configured and plugged, turn off PC, hook up your drives via SATA and/or USB and boot to upgrade.


----------



## aaronwt

comer said:


> I use this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...cm_re=sata_usb_adapter-_-12-156-014-_-Product
> Comes with power brick for SATA drive as well.


I used to use those several years ago with my S3 boxes. They worked great and are very portable. Eventually I started using the BlacX ones when I put together a machine with four eSata ports on it.


----------



## t1voproof

Newegg has WD20EARS for $94.99 and free shipping with promo code EMCZYNT52
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514
valid till 11/01/2010


----------



## cherb

cherry ghost said:


> any update?


I just received my WD20EARS drive from NewEgg and it has a manufacture date of 17 AUG 2010. It sounds like some have had success with newer drives leaving Intellipark enabled. Do I need to disable entirely due to the date, or will setting it to something longer than 8 seconds do the trick?


----------



## richsadams

cherb said:


> I just received my WD20EARS drive from NewEgg and it has a manufacture date of 17 AUG 2010. It sounds like some have had success with newer drives leaving Intellipark enabled. Do I need to disable entirely due to the date, or will setting it to something longer than 8 seconds do the trick?


Based on a number of posts it looks like the cutoff date is mid-September, so you'll probably need to tweak the Intellipark feature. Setting it 300 (5 minutes) will do the trick.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## husky55

cherb said:


> I just received my WD20EARS drive from NewEgg and it has a manufacture date of 17 AUG 2010. It sounds like some have had success with newer drives leaving Intellipark enabled. Do I need to disable entirely due to the date, or will setting it to something longer than 8 seconds do the trick?


Newegg reviews reported a high number of failures. I did not pull the trigger.


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> Based on a number of posts it looks like the cutoff date is mid-September, so you'll probably need to tweak the Intellipark feature. Setting it 300 (5 minutes) will do the trick.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Why not just turn it off, I never had a problem with the drive doing just that.


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> Why not just turn it off, I never had a problem with the drive doing just that.


There are more than a few reports that the Intellipark disable command isn't working on more recently manufactured WD GP drives for some reason. I tried it on one that I have (August manufacture date) and received an error response. Setting it to 300 seconds works just as well for TiVo purposes.


----------



## richsadams

husky55 said:


> Newegg reviews reported a high number of failures. I did not pull the trigger.


Responses look to be about identical to the WD10EARS (411 reports Vs 308 as of this writing). Both drives have been successfully used by a number of folks on the TCF. Certainly your call and I understand the hesitation, but I wouldn't think twice about purchasing a drive with a 4 out of 5 rating based on that much feedback.

EDIT: I'll modify my post to the extent that out of about 60 reports for October it looks like about 16 were either DOA or failed in less than a year. One single egg report was by someone that didn't even buy one  and two more were by folks trying to use them in old operating systems. The 97 posts on Amazon give it a four out of five as well...with several one-star reports posted by people trying to use it in odd applications, etc. That said I'd still keep in mind that people are much more likely to post a negative report than anything positive and overall the positive feedback far out weighs the negative. So caveat emptor but I'd still purchase one (although I might spend a few dollars more for Amazon's better return policy).


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> There are more than a few reports that the Intellipark disable command isn't working on more recently manufactured WD GP drives for some reason. I tried it on one that I have (August manufacture date) and received an error response. Setting it to 300 seconds works just as well for TiVo purposes.


I can verify this, and I concur fully with this post.

One nice thing about using /S300 -vs- /D, is that if you later re-task the drive into a computer, it will have a 5 minute idle timer, rather than none, without having to change the BIOS settings in order to boot to the CD with the WDIDLE3 software for changing it back, and then having to change the BIOS settings back again.

In a TiVo, except for at the time of a reboot, the hard drive is always buffering. One exception, would be if the TiVo crashed/hung (not the drive itself). Then the /S300 5 minute idle timer may potentially activate. But, in such a case, pulling the power cord to reboot is required anyway. So, there is no downside.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> One nice thing about using /S300 -vs- /D, is that if you later re-task the drive into a computer, it will have a 5 minute idle timer, rather than none, without having to change the BIOS settings in order to boot to the CD with the WDIDLE3 software for changing it back, and then having to change the BIOS settings back again.


Hadn't thought about that...but that's a good point for when we move on to those 4TB drives in the near future.


----------



## aaronwt

4TB drives should be coming out next year.

they already have platter densities of 750GB, so with a 5 platter design. and an 800GB density they should be able to do 4TB.

Does any one have one of the WD 2.5TB or 3TB green drives yet?

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=866

I see the model numbers are
WD25EZRSDTL
WD30EZRSDTL

I see Newegg has the 3TB ones in stock. And they are still cheaper than the first 1TB Hitachi drives i purchased for my TiVos.


----------



## comer

aaronwt said:


> 4TB drives should be coming out next year.
> 
> they already have platter densities of 750GB, so with a 5 platter design. and an 800GB density they should be able to do 4TB.
> 
> Does any one have one of the WD 2.5TB or 3TB green drives yet?
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=866
> 
> I see the model numbers are
> WD25EZRSDTL
> WD30EZRSDTL
> 
> I see Newegg has the 3TB ones in stock. And they are still cheaper than the first 1TB Hitachi drives i purchased for my TiVos.


Very interesting  Though I am fairly certain they won't work in Tivo. 3T is more than an unsigned 32-bit int of 512byte blocks


----------



## cherb

tcfcameron said:


> I can verify this, and I concur fully with this post.
> 
> One nice thing about using /S300 -vs- /D, is that if you later re-task the drive into a computer, it will have a 5 minute idle timer, rather than none, without having to change the BIOS settings in order to boot to the CD with the WDIDLE3 software for changing it back, and then having to change the BIOS settings back again.
> 
> In a TiVo, except for at the time of a reboot, the hard drive is always buffering. One exception, would be if the TiVo crashed/hung (not the drive itself). Then the /S300 5 minute idle timer may potentially activate. But, in such a case, pulling the power cord to reboot is required anyway. So, there is no downside.


Speaking of Tivo always buffering. I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner. I'm transitioning from ReplayTVs which I've owned for 8+ years now. I notice there is no power button, but there is a standby option in the menu. Is there an advantage, particularly around drive lifetime, to put the Tivo in Standby?


----------



## tcfcameron

cherb said:


> Speaking of Tivo always buffering. I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner. I'm transitioning from ReplayTVs which I've owned for 8+ years now. I notice there is no power button, but there is a standby option in the menu. Is there an advantage, particularly around drive lifetime, to put the Tivo in Standby?


Nope. The only thing that is turned off in standby mode is the video outputs. Everything else runs just the same. The amount of electricity saved is entirely about the TV, and other connected electronics, either going to sleep, or being turned off.

The wattage used in standby -vs- regular mode has been measured and reported as immeasurable, or just plain not saving power at all, when it comes to the Premiere, on it's own. If I could remember one of the sites that performed the analysis, I'd post the link, but I don't recall which one.

Standby is most useful when you are sleeping. It stops EAS alerts/tests from blasting you out of a deep sleep. The banners also won't record into the programs in standby. Since most of the EAS tests occur at around 2AM, if you put it in standby, you won't have to hear them or see them at all if they happen in standby.

Note: The EAS portion I just described, about tests/alerts not being recorded into programming, may only apply if a CableCard is used.


----------



## comer

cherb said:


> Speaking of Tivo always buffering. I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner. I'm transitioning from ReplayTVs which I've owned for 8+ years now. I notice there is no power button, but there is a standby option in the menu. Is there an advantage, particularly around drive lifetime, to put the Tivo in Standby?


Aside from a little less load on Tivo's CPU and video output been turned off - only a piece of mind for guys like me. Always-on unattended devices scare me.


----------



## richsadams

cherb said:


> Speaking of Tivo always buffering. I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner. I'm transitioning from ReplayTVs which I've owned for 8+ years now. I notice there is no power button, but there is a standby option in the menu. Is there an advantage, particularly around drive lifetime, to put the Tivo in Standby?


To add a little something to the wise answers above, the greatest strain on a hard drive is when it fully powers up from an off condition. No one advises continually powering hard drives on/off to increase longevity.

About the only action someone that's really dedicated to that sort of thing could take with respect to TiVo would be to put both tuners on channels with no signal thus slightly reducing data throughput.

Otherwise your TiVo should last many years...and welcome to the club!


----------



## NOLA Sam

I got my USB Sata cables in and started Copying the drive. How long does it take to copy from the 320gb to the 2TB via usb/sata cables? I know it was said it takes longer, but is that longer than 4 hours?

Sam


----------



## comer

NOLA Sam said:


> I got my USB Sata cables in and started Copying the drive. How long does it take to copy from the 320gb to the 2TB via usb/sata cables? I know it was said it takes longer, but is that longer than 4 hours?
> 
> Sam


It should display the average speed. For USB it is about 15MB/s usually. So 320*1024/15 ~= 6 hours.
If your speed is higher it will reduce the time proportionally.


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> If your speed is higher it will reduce the time proportionally.


Unless you actually sit there and watch it...then it will _never_ finish.


----------



## cherb

Thanks for all of the information. I'm not so much concerned about the drive spinning, but on having the drive constantly written to. Someone mentioned that if it's not recording a program on each tuner, then the unused tuner(s) will always be buffering the channel they were last tuned to. With ReplayTV, when I turned it off it would cut video AND stop any buffering. So I was just curious if there was a way to stop the heads from writing when nothing was scheduled to be recorded. Sounds like No.

BTW, I was able to set IntelliPark to both 300s and disabled (on the WD20EARS). I ended up leaving it disabled just to be on the safe side. Using two SATA connections I was able to maintain an average speed of 38.5MB/s (I suspect the limit was the write speed on the WD20EARS). So copying from the WD3200AVVS stock drive took right around 2 hours 20 minutes.

Is AAM tunable on the WD20EARS? I'm not sure I would bother with it at this point as it's extremely quiet already. Also, I'm seeing capacity of 290 HD hours, but I see others reporting 317 HD hours. Curious if I missed something, though again I don't think I would crack the case to get 30 more hours out of it.


----------



## txporter

cherb said:


> Thanks for all of the information. I'm not so much concerned about the drive spinning, but on having the drive constantly written to. Someone mentioned that if it's not recording a program on each tuner, then the unused tuner(s) will always be buffering the channel they were last tuned to. With ReplayTV, when I turned it off it would cut video AND stop any buffering. So I was just curious if there was a way to stop the heads from writing when nothing was scheduled to be recorded. Sounds like No.
> 
> BTW, I was able to set IntelliPark to both 300s and disabled (on the WD20EARS). I ended up leaving it disabled just to be on the safe side. Using two SATA connections I was able to maintain an average speed of 38.5MB/s (I suspect the limit was the write speed on the WD20EARS). So copying from the WD3200AVVS stock drive took right around 2 hours 20 minutes.
> 
> Is AAM tunable on the WD20EARS? I'm not sure I would bother with it at this point as it's extremely quiet already. Also, I'm seeing capacity of 290 HD hours, but I see others reporting 317 HD hours. Curious if I missed something, though again I don't think I would crack the case to get 30 more hours out of it.


You can set the AAM for the WD20EARS (I did). Currently, the capacity you should see with comer's utility is 290. He is still working to configure 'supersize' to get the remaining ~30 hours. Using winMFS, you could turn on supersize at any point (i.e. It didn't need to be done at initial expansion to larger drive.) I assume that will be the same for premieres as well when it is ready.


----------



## tcfcameron

cherb said:


> Is AAM tunable on the WD20EARS? I'm not sure I would bother with it at this point as it's extremely quiet already.


Yes, AAM is adjustable. All four of my WD20EADS drives (which WD has phased out with the EARS drives) came with it disabled. They were bulk-pack, bare OEM drives from Fry's. I think that the retail (boxed) versions come with it enabled.

I enabled AAM, but changed it back, due to a noticeable slowdown with my TiVo HD, while performing drive intensive processes, such as indexing the guide cache and re-organizing season passes (especially if the two were happening concurrently).

Even with a stethoscope, I couldn't hear any difference in seeking noise levels. The slowdown issue existed no matter what level the AAM was set to, other than disabled. I have my TiVos stacked, two in my bedroom, and two in the Living Room. Even in that configuration, I don't hear any seeking going on unless I have my ear at the front panel.

If you check the drive specs, it does indicate that seek performance is reduced with AAM (which may be confusing to some, as older drives used to advertise quietness without sacrificing performance, using AAM). Why a performance hit would be noticeable on a TiVo (any model), I don't know, but that has been my experience.

When I first reported this, others stepped forward and said they experienced the same slowdown upon enabling AAM, and agreed that the drives were perfectly quiet enough without it.

The EADS and EARS drives are nearly identical. Mechanically, they are the same. The only discernible difference is in the "advanced format" of the EARS drives, which allows for greater data density, but TiVos are unable to take advantage of it in the way it was designed to be utilized.

You can set the AAM at any time, and change it at any time, without losing the drive data. So, if you wish to experiment, you could try it both ways, and let us know if the EARS drives experience the same slowdown, or not.

I think that the performance hit may be due to the drives being GP (Green Power) drives with a variable RPM that tops out at 5400RPM. A 7200RPM drive would have twice the opportunity to perform the same amount of seeking. That's my theory, anyway.


----------



## cherb

Thanks for the information regarding AAM. I didn't see a tool to set it on WD's website. Is it part of another tool? Maybe I'll experiment with it once the Supersize feature is available so I only have to pull the drive out once.

BTW, many thanks to Comer for not only coming up with a method of upgrading, but putting it in such a user friendly package. Very well done! Will this method work for previous generation TiVos?


----------



## richsadams

cherb said:


> I didn't see a tool to set it on WD's website. Is it part of another tool?


You s/b able to adjust the AAM using HDDScan.

http://www.hddscan.com


----------



## cherb

richsadams said:


> You s/b able to adjust the AAM using HDDScan.
> 
> http://www.hddscan.com


This appears to be Windows only. I got the impression from earlier on in this thread that it wasn't recommended to have a Tivo drive attached to your system when booting Windows. Is that not the case? In any case in my search for a tool to set AAM I saw mixed results, so figured I would ask here. Either way, it's sounding like I won't like the results based on the other posts (no pun intended).


----------



## richsadams

cherb said:


> This appears to be Windows only. I got the impression from earlier on in this thread that it wasn't recommended to have a Tivo drive attached to your system when booting Windows. Is that not the case? In any case in my search for a tool to set AAM I saw mixed results, so figured I would ask here. Either way, it's sounding like I won't like the results based on the other posts (no pun intended).


There's no problem having a TiVo drive attached to a Windows machine (the long-relied upon upgrade software winMFS is a Windows based program). The issue is to never utilize any of Window's drive utilities (assigning drive letters, formatting, etc.)


----------



## Anthony GT

richsadams said:


> Based on a number of posts it looks like the cutoff date is mid-September, so you'll probably need to tweak the Intellipark feature. Setting it 300 (5 minutes) will do the trick.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Hmmm, in my enthusiasm I upgraded my WD 2 TB EARS without changing the Intellipark feature. It booted up fine, but is there a problem that can occur later?


----------



## richsadams

Anthony GT said:


> Hmmm, in my enthusiasm I upgraded my WD 2 TB EARS without changing the Intellipark feature. It booted up fine, but is there a problem that can occur later?


Possibly. Try rebooting your TiVo from a menu restart and see if it boots up normally.

TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset DVR > Restart the TiVo Digital Media Recorder.

If it boots up normally there's nothing to worry about. If not, you'll probably want to run wdidle3.exe to extend the Intellipark feature's timeout. If you didn't TiVo would hang at the Welcome! Powering up... screen after a software update and then require a regular power cycle (pull the plug, wait ten seconds and plug it back in) to boot up. Some people can live with that and others don't want to risk missing any recordings.


----------



## tcfcameron

cherb said:


> This appears to be Windows only. I got the impression from earlier on in this thread that it wasn't recommended to have a Tivo drive attached to your system when booting Windows. Is that not the case? In any case in my search for a tool to set AAM I saw mixed results, so figured I would ask here. Either way, it's sounding like I won't like the results based on the other posts (no pun intended).


As long as you don't fire-up "Disk Management", Windows (XP) will leave the drive alone, and it is safe to use just about any Windows utility capable of setting AAM.

If you really want to play it super-safe, and I don't blame you, acquire a boot CD/DVD/Floppy that has Hitachi Feature Tool 2.11 or earlier on it (newer revisions after 2.11 won't work). I've been using 1.97, without problems. As with many drive utilities, it works on other drives that aren't Hitachi.

Personally, I find WD's GP and AV-GP drive lines to be perfectly quiet with AAM disabled. AAM, enabled at any level, saps away a small amount of seek-time performance, while the difference in seek-noise is only detectable (barely) if you use a stethoscope (or glue your ear to the top of the case). You will notice the performance hit when the drive is indexing guide cache or re-prioritizing Season Passes, more so if concurrently.


----------



## Anthony GT

richsadams said:


> Possibly. Try rebooting your TiVo from a menu restart and see if it boots up normally.
> 
> TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset DVR > Restart the TiVo Digital Media Recorder.
> 
> If it boots up normally there's nothing to worry about. If not, you'll probably want to run wdidle3.exe to extend the Intellipark feature's timeout. If you didn't TiVo would hang at the Welcome! Powering up... screen after a software update and then require a regular power cycle (pull the plug, wait ten seconds and plug it back in) to boot up. Some people can live with that and others don't want to risk missing any recordings.


I did the reboot and it worked fine. I'll pull the drive tomorrow and check the date. I think it was 9/8 but I'm not 100% sure. Thanks Rich!


----------



## richsadams

Anthony GT said:


> I did the reboot and it worked fine. I'll pull the drive tomorrow and check the date. I think it was 9/8 but I'm not 100% sure. Thanks Rich!


No, thank _you_!


----------



## gespears

cherb said:


> This appears to be Windows only. I got the impression from earlier on in this thread that it wasn't recommended to have a Tivo drive attached to your system when booting Windows. Is that not the case? In any case in my search for a tool to set AAM I saw mixed results, so figured I would ask here. Either way, it's sounding like I won't like the results based on the other posts (no pun intended).


I used Win 7 and Paragon Drive Copy to make a backup of a TiVo drive that subsequently worked correctly in the TiVo, even through an update to 14.6.

What I'm trying to say is that you can use Win 7 to manipulate TiVo drives, just be careful not to use any of Win 7 drive functions on them because at that point the TiVo format and data can be corrupted.


----------



## moyekj

Another successful hard drive upgrade here using Comer's method with 2 SATA->USB adapters. Took about 6 hours to complete the 320GB drive copy.
First time I powered up with the copied + extended drive I thought I had lost CableCard pairing though as no encrypted channel would tune in and CableCard status was "Pending". After a soft boot though now the CableCard is working normally again though so everything is good to go.

Only issue is the new drive is a Hitachi Deskstar 1TB 7200RPM SATA II 16MB Cache 0S00163 and is awfully noisy compared to the original WD drive. I can hear continuous disk writing all the time. Is there a way to reduce noise on the drive (enable AAM and quiet setting) via SATA-USB connection?


----------



## moyekj

Followup. I tried using the Windows HDDScan (3.3) utility and it lists AAM feature as Not Supported. I'm guessing this means I'm out of luck with SATA->USB connection and setting AAM to 128?


----------



## husky55

Just found this WD 20EVDS, AV-GP at Frys

http://www.frys.com/product/6298510

That is $20 cheaper than at Newegg.

Don't know the difference if any with this one at Newegg WD 20EARS which is cheaper with the coupon.

Since I have to copy 320GB I really don't want to do this very often.


----------



## richsadams

moyekj said:


> Followup. I tried using the Windows HDDScan (3.3) utility and it lists AAM feature as Not Supported. I'm guessing this means I'm out of luck with SATA->USB connection and setting AAM to 128?


Give the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11 (that version or older) a try. See Section IV, #32 of the original upgrade FAQ for links and instructions.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160


----------



## moyekj

richsadams said:


> Give the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11 (that version or older) a try. See Section IV, #32 of the original upgrade FAQ for links and instructions.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160


 OK thanks. I burned v2.11 iso to a DVD but my laptop won't boot up with it properly. It starts booting up and then just hangs. Not sitting in front of it at the moment to get the exact wording. I'm going to try on a computer at work instead to see if that works...

EDIT: Managed to boot from v2.11 image on a flash drive on my work computer, and it has SATA so I guess if I can't get it to work at home I'll bring the drive to work to change AAM settings.


----------



## EdH

richsadams said:


> Give the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11 (that version or older) a try. See Section IV, #32 of the original upgrade FAQ for links and instructions.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160


Can this be used on a drive that's already been in use on the Premier w/o losing data?

P.S. I don't see section 32 on the link you gave.

Thanks,

Ed


----------



## Anthony GT

Anthony GT said:


> I did the reboot and it worked fine. I'll pull the drive tomorrow and check the date. I think it was 9/8 but I'm not 100% sure. Thanks Rich!


For once my memory was right! The drive was manufactured on 9/8.


----------



## aaronwt

EdH said:


> Can this be used on a drive that's already been in use on the Premier w/o losing data?
> 
> P.S. I don't see section 32 on the link you gave.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed


With all the other TiVos you could use the Hitachi Feature Tooll without affecting data.
Although I have not personally tried it with a Premiere hard drive. Only the previous models.


----------



## richsadams

EdH said:


> Can this be used on a drive that's already been in use on the Premier w/o losing data?
> 
> P.S. I don't see section 32 on the link you gave.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed


Hi Ed. Yes, as aaronwt mentions, there's no problem since it's a firmware adjustment, nothing to do with the data.

BTW, it's Section *IV*, #32. There's no Section XXXII in the FAQ.


----------



## richsadams

Anthony GT said:


> For once my memory was right! The drive was manufactured on 9/8.


Sweet! So it's looking more and more like it's safe to say that WD drives manufactured after 9/15/10 probably do not need the Intellipark feature tweaked. Thanks for checking on that. :up:


----------



## moyekj

moyekj said:


> OK thanks. I burned v2.11 iso to a DVD but my laptop won't boot up with it properly. It starts booting up and then just hangs. Not sitting in front of it at the moment to get the exact wording. I'm going to try on a computer at work instead to see if that works...
> 
> EDIT: Managed to boot from v2.11 image on a flash drive on my work computer, and it has SATA so I guess if I can't get it to work at home I'll bring the drive to work to change AAM settings.


Well looks like I got the wrong Hitachi Deskstar 1TB unit. The model is:
HDS721010CLA332
I hooked it up to SATA on a computer at work and ran the Hitachi utility and it states that Acoustic Management is not supported for this drive. In fact there were hardly any features at all to toggle for this drive. Guess that explains why HDDScan had the AAM setting greyed out for the drive as well.
I bought this drive from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002D5XY8A/ref=oss_product
That's the problem when they never list the actual model number for the drive it's not clear what you are going to get...
I should have sticked with WD drive, but I was initially worried about Intellipark which was a mistake as it would have been easy to disable if necessary.

I'm just going to keep it as backup drive for emergency use only as it is way too noisy as is for 24/7 operation in a TiVo.


----------



## richsadams

moyekj said:


> Well looks like I got the wrong Hitachi Deskstar 1TB unit. The model is:
> HDS721010CLA332
> I hooked it up to SATA on a computer at work and ran the Hitachi utility and it states that Acoustic Management is not supported for this drive. In fact there were hardly any features at all to toggle for this drive. Guess that explains why HDDScan had the AAM setting greyed out for the drive as well.
> I bought this drive from Amazon:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002D5XY8A/ref=oss_product
> That's the problem when they never list the actual model number for the drive it's not clear what you are going to get...
> I should have sticked with WD drive, but I was initially worried about Intellipark which was a mistake as it would have been easy to disable if necessary.
> 
> I'm just going to keep it as backup drive for emergency use only as it is way too noisy as is for 24/7 operation in a TiVo.


Bummer.  As you've found not all Hitachi Deskstar hard drives are created equal. The standard Deskstar 7K1000 series acoustics average 2.9bels to 3.2bels (and can be higher). By A/V standards that is very loud. The Hitachi drive most folks are using for their Tivo's, the Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K, is considerably quieter at an average of 2.4bels to 2.5bels.

To reduce the AAM (auto acoustic management) to 128 HDDScan should work on those drives...it did on the ones I have (if you're logged on as administrator) but if not I'm almost certain the Hitachi Feature Tool will work. Again, be sure to use v2.11.

If you still wanted to go with Hitachi, here is a link to the 7K1000.C OEM drive:

http://amzn.to/cinYZz

Amazon has a very good return policy...maybe you could send yours back?

Western Digital's WD10EVDS is another good option...the only drawback is that it may require the Intellipark feature to be adjusted.

http://amzn.to/aI97uX


----------



## moyekj

richsadams said:


> To reduce the AAM (auto acoustic management) to 128 HDDScan should work on those drives...it did on the ones I have (if you're logged on as administrator) but if not I'm almost certain the Hitachi Feature Tool will work. Again, be sure to use v2.11.


 Thanks richsadams. Yes it was v2.11 Hitachi utility (ftool_211) that I used and that shows AAM not supported for the drive. I was surprised as well since the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ has that drive listed with folks reporting they could adjust AAM on it - that is where I looked upon deciding which drive to get. HDDScan shows the same thing - AAM setting greyed out. Both utils showed the same thing via USB connection, eSATA connection and even direct SATA connection on a computer at work. The same computer at work for the main drive did have AAM setting adjustment available, so I'm certain the utilities are running correctly. Perhaps particular firmware installed on drive has those settings disabled for some reason. Not too worried, I'll just keep the drive for emergency use. I wasn't really looking for expanded space anyway, I was more interested in having a good backup with stored CableCard pairing which I now have (and it's verified to work in my TiVo albeit very loudly).


----------



## richsadams

moyekj said:


> Thanks richsadams. Yes it was v2.11 Hitachi utility (ftool_211) that I used and that shows AAM not supported for the drive. I was surprised as well since the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ has that drive listed with folks reporting they could adjust AAM on it - that is where I looked upon deciding which drive to get. HDDScan shows the same thing - AAM setting greyed out. Both utils showed the same thing via USB connection, eSATA connection and even direct SATA connection on a computer at work. The same computer at work for the main drive did have AAM setting adjustment available, so I'm certain the utilities are running correctly. Perhaps particular firmware installed on drive has those settings disabled for some reason. Not too worried, I'll just keep the drive for emergency use. I wasn't really looking for expanded space anyway, I was more interested in having a good backup with stored CableCard pairing which I now have (and it's verified to work in my TiVo albeit very loudly).


That's very interesting...since a couple of other folks reported the same thing with new 2TB Hitachi drives they (Hitachi) may well have changed the firmware so that the AAM can no longer be set. That would be very discouraging as Seagate's cannot be set either basically leaving only WD drives as recommended in that camp. Although both Hitachi and Seagate make fairly quiet options, it's still nice to be able to customize things when needed.

In any case, good to know and thanks for testing it out multiple ways as well as the feedback! :up:


----------



## moyekj

richsadams said:


> Although both Hitachi and Seagate make fairly quiet options, it's still nice to be able to customize things when needed.


 I have to disagree with "make fairly quiet options" in regards to this particular Hitachi drive. The factory WD drive in my Premiere is extremely quiet and I struggle to hear anything at all even with my ear against the unit. In contrast the Hitachi I could hear constant crackling from 8 feet away (with the cover on the Premiere). I'm usually not too picky about hard drive noise but the Hitachi was ridiculously loud and no way I could sleep with the noise it was making (this unit is in the bedroom). I strongly suspect even if AAM was possible a setting of 128 probably would not make it as quiet as the WD drive is. The Hitachi is on par with the noise my 7 year old Maxtor 80GB drive in my ReplayTV makes (but at least ReplayTV you can turn off and it no longer buffers to hard drive so goes silent when not in use).


----------



## richsadams

moyekj said:


> I have to disagree with "make fairly quiet options" in regards to this particular Hitachi drive. The factory WD drive in my Premiere is extremely quiet and I struggle to hear anything at all even with my ear against the unit. In contrast the Hitachi I could hear constant crackling from 8 feet away (with the cover on the Premiere). I'm usually not too picky about hard drive noise but the Hitachi was ridiculously loud and no way I could sleep with the noise it was making (this unit is in the bedroom). I strongly suspect even if AAM was possible a setting of 128 probably would not make it as quiet as the WD drive is. The Hitachi is on par with the noise my 7 year old Maxtor 80GB drive in my ReplayTV makes (but at least ReplayTV you can turn off and it no longer buffers to hard drive so goes silent when not in use).


When I refer to quiet options, see my post above. I have two of the 7K1000.C Hitachi's and they are very quiet out of the box; the acoustics (2.4 bels) are rated identical to WD's GP drives, although just slightly higher than their AV/GP drives. Agreed, the one you have is not a good option.


----------



## donnoh

Being the owner of a Hitachi 2 TB drive and a WD 2 TB drive in Tivo's, I see no difference in the sound level between the two.
Anyone that wants to complain about hard drive noise either doesn't own either one or doesn't know what they're talking about.
They're both dead silent.


----------



## richsadams

donnoh said:


> Being the owner of a Hitachi 2 TB drive and a WD 2 TB drive in Tivo's, I see no difference in the sound level between the two.
> Anyone that wants to complain about hard drive noise either doesn't own either one or doesn't know what they're talking about. They're both dead silent.


Hitachi like Seagate, Western Digital and others make several different lines of hard drives for different applications. The particular models we've been using are indeed very quiet when compared to some others intended for applications like enterprise, servers, etc. where speed is paramount and sound is of little consideration. The ideal TiVo drives run somewhere between 2.2 and 2.7 bels. Anything above that can clearly be heard in normal use. I still have a Hitachi 1TB in a Newertech backup drive that sounds like a thrashing machine, but as mentioned I have a couple of others in a NAS that are dead quiet...two very different models is all.

Between the HVAC and drive/fan din I sometimes thought I was going home with some hearing loss after visiting my servers in their data centers. (Not as badly as a few earlier Who or Stones concerts however.  )

So one just has to be careful about which drives to buy. Generally any that are recommended here should do quite well in a TiVo.


----------



## aaronwt

Some of us are more sensitive to drive noise than others. I've yet to run into any drive that is used in the TiVos that I can't hear from across a room easily. Even though the drives are set for low acoustics I can easily hear them. Of course with out those AAM settings some are extremely loud to me. But unfortunately I am very sensitive to hard drive noise and can easily hear it. Although I'm accustomed to it so it doesn't usually bother me unless the TiVo has a bunch of hard drive activity in the middle of the night and wakes me up. Unfotunately the head of my bed is only fourteen feet away from the TiVo so I can easily hear it.

Still I would rather hear a hard drive from a TiVo than a ticking watch. Any watch in a room drives me crazy from the ticking. Even if I put it in a drawer and cover it with clothes I can still hear the ticking from across the room.


----------



## rushtrader

WD 2tb WD2001EADS drive is on sale at Newegg for $80 when you enter code EMCZYZX48

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136344

From slickdeals

Cheers!
RT


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> Some of us are more sensitive to drive noise than others. I've yet to run into any drive that is used in the TiVos that I can't hear from across a room easily. Even though the drives are set for low acoustics I can easily hear them. Of course with out those AAM settings some are extremely loud to me. But unfortunately I am very sensitive to hard drive noise and can easily hear it. Although I'm accustomed to it so it doesn't usually bother me unless the TiVo has a bunch of hard drive activity in the middle of the night and wakes me up. Unfotunately the head of my bed is only fourteen feet away from the TiVo so I can easily hear it.
> 
> Still I would rather hear a hard drive from a TiVo than a ticking watch. Any watch in a room drives me crazy from the ticking. Even if I put it in a drawer and cover it with clothes I can still hear the ticking from across the room.


Wow! You obviously did _not_ go to enough concerts in your younger days!


----------



## richsadams

rushtrader said:


> WD 2tb WD2001EADS drive is on sale at Newegg for $80 when you enter code EMCZYZX48
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136344
> 
> From slickdeals
> 
> Cheers!
> RT


Sold out.


----------



## donnoh

richsadams said:


> Wow! You obviously did _not_ go to enough concerts in your younger days!


+1 on that one!
I wish I could hear well enough for a ticking watch to bother me.

Even though I'm an old fart my hearing is still pretty good, but a ticking watch is like dog hearing.


----------



## richsadams

donnoh said:


> +1 on that one!
> I wish I could hear well enough for a ticking watch to bother me.
> 
> Even though I'm an old fart my hearing is still pretty good, but a ticking watch is like dog hearing.


What?


----------



## comer

I think I know why commercial providers stopped selling two-drive kits. I may have hit the same snag here while verifying end-to-end functionality 

The problem is that when I add an external drive to the expanded supersized internal drive, Tivo shows used space as a negative percentage  (You can only see the used space bar in HD UI). I don't know if it has any repercussions further or it's just a UI bug. The total space is reported correctly in system info though.

I have to investigate if supersize has anything to do with that or it is (may be) a Tivo limitation (feature/bug) on the total disk space. If supersize is the reason, than I'll have to postpone the release. If not - I will remove "Add external" functionality and will release without it.


----------



## aaronwt

isn't that just a UI bug?
if so I'm sure they will fix it. You can't have people showing a negative pecentage of available space so you would think that would be a priority to fix.


----------



## tcfcameron

comer said:


> I think I know why commercial providers stopped selling two-drive kits. I may have hit the same snag here while verifying end-to-end functionality
> 
> The problem is that when I add an external drive to the expanded supersized internal drive, Tivo shows used space as a negative percentage  (You can only see the used space bar in HD UI). I don't know if it has any repercussions further or it's just a UI bug. The total space is reported correctly in system info though.
> 
> I have to investigate if supersize has anything to do with that or it is (may be) a Tivo limitation (feature/bug) on the total disk space. If supersize is the reason, than I'll have to postpone the release. If not - I will remove "Add external" functionality and will release without it.


Something odd has been going on, for sure. Nearly immediately after the Premiere could be bought, the upgrade sites were selling them with 4TB (2+2). Then it was only 2TB internal, last I checked it was 2TB (1+1).

I don't know if maybe it has something to do with the availability and/or costs of the drives, or if they have been having problems. I'd be worried if I was one of the people who bought any of the previous configurations.

Perhaps somebody who truly knows what is going on could step in? We could speculate on possibilities, rumors, and sheer guesses for months here, otherwise.


----------



## comer

aaronwt said:


> isn't that just a UI bug?


That's what unclear at this point.



> if so I'm sure they will fix it. You can't have people showing a negative pecentage of available space so you would think that would be a priority to fix.


I am not sure about this even if it is a UI bug. Tivo does not officially support anything higher than 1T (XL internal) + 1T (My DVR Expander). I don't have 1T drives, so I can not try, but I have a feeling that it would work without this problem.


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> Something odd has been going on, for sure. Nearly immediately after the Premiere could be bought, the upgrade sites were selling them with 4TB (2+2). Then it was only 2TB internal, last I checked it was 2TB (1+1).
> 
> I don't know if maybe it has something to do with the availability and/or costs of the drives, or if they have been having problems. I'd be worried if I was one of the people who bought any of the previous configurations.
> 
> Perhaps somebody who truly knows what is going on could step in? We could speculate on possibilities, rumors, and sheer guesses for months here, otherwise.


I scoured all the usual suspects and there are only single internal upgrades up to 2T available now. I would be interested to know what happens if somebody who got one of those plugged in My DVR Expander as well


----------



## comer

comer said:


> I have to investigate if supersize has anything to do with that ...


Yep, supersize just became a number 1 suspect  Just expaned and added 2T internal + 320G external with *no* supersize. Used space bar shows 14% just as it's supposed to (I had 99% of 320G full). Supersized that combination - shows -13%  I'll prove it conclusively after I try 2T + 1.5T. But it's 90% certain at this point. 
Do not panic, I have some ideas


----------



## richsadams

comer said:


> Yep, supersize just became a number 1 suspect  Just expaned and added 2T internal + 320G external with *no* supersize. Used space bar shows 14% just as it's supposed to (I had 99% of 320G full). Supersized that combination - shows -13%  I'll prove it conclusively after I try 2T + 1.5T. But it's 90% certain at this point.
> Do not panic, I have some ideas


Awesome work...difficult as it is, we _all_ appreciate it! :up: :up: :up:


----------



## aaronwt

richsadams said:


> Wow! You obviously did _not_ go to enough concerts in your younger days!


And that is what really sucks. I got hearing damage in one ear around 5 or 6 years ago because I could not find my sonic earplugs. So like a dumbass I went without any hearing protection. I figured a normal concert at 60 minutes would be fine, but the one we went to lasted over 2.5 hours and I ended up with the hearing damage to that ear since it was directly facing where all the sound was coming from.
So even though that one ear has hearing damage, the frequencies put out by the hard drives and fans are unaffected in that ear which is really annoying.


----------



## lessd

comer said:


> Yep, supersize just became a number 1 suspect  Just expaned and added 2T internal + 320G external with *no* supersize. Used space bar shows 14% just as it's supposed to (I had 99% of 320G full). Supersized that combination - shows -13%  I'll prove it conclusively after I try 2T + 1.5T. But it's 90% certain at this point.
> Do not panic, I have some ideas


This may have been covered in 1000 or so posts in this thread but I just used your *tool *to expand a TPXL to 2Tb, took 7 hours to copy the original 1Tb disk but the expand worked without any flaws and the TPXL booted up having 301 HD record hours (some 2500 SD record hours). It's run overnight without problems. The TPXL has 14.6 software.
As with others thanks so much for your great work on this Comer.


----------



## comer

lessd said:


> This may have been covered in 1000 or so posts in this thread but I just used your *tool *to expand a TPXL to 2Tb, took 7 hours to copy the original 1Tb disk but the expand worked without any flaws and the TPXL booted up having 301 HD record hours (some 2500 SD record hours). It's run overnight without problems. The TPXL has 14.6 software.
> As with others thanks so much for your great work on this Comer.


Enjoy


----------



## Shagger

FYI there are some INSANE drive deals going on over at Newegg:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1040359/

2TB drives for $80 ?!?!?


----------



## aaronwt

I think it might be time to replace some more of my 1.5TB drives in my WHS.


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> This may have been covered in 1000 or so posts in this thread but I just used your *tool *to expand a TPXL to 2Tb, took 7 hours to copy the original 1Tb disk but the expand worked without any flaws and the TPXL booted up having 301 HD record hours (some 2500 SD record hours). It's run overnight without problems. The TPXL has 14.6 software.
> As with others thanks so much for your great work on this Comer.


Nice Les...congrats!


----------



## comer

I have released jmfs with _Supersize_.
I am pretty sure Supersize is not responsible for the negative percentage of Used Space Bar. Basically, Tivo has a problem with any extent larger than 2TB. Be it a single drive internal or external, or logical partition. In my experiment with 2TB+320G drives, the total space available for recordings without Supersize was a little smaller than 2TB, actually (TivoClips, not been restricted, take 10% of the recording space). With Supersize (TivoClips restricted to 10G) the total space was just over 2TB.
I don't think we can do anything here, besides pressing Tivo for update. And I highly doubt they will do anything about it, so if you want _everything_ to work correctly - you are limited to 2TB for the time being. However, I think this negative space glitch is pretty harmless. I recorded a few shows, it went from -13% to -15%, but recordings played fine. Let me know if you want to experiment and contribute to long-term test study - I'll show you how to add an external drive


----------



## jbell73

comer said:


> I have released jmfs with _Supersize_.


Very cool! Thank you for the hard work.

Quick question - If someone has already done the upgrade, and they use the updated JMFS boot CD to just enable the supersize feature, or is this only for new drive upgrades?

-Jeff


----------



## comer

jbell73 said:


> Very cool! Thank you for the hard work.
> 
> Quick question - If someone has already done the upgrade, and they use the updated JMFS boot CD to just enable the supersize feature, or is this only for new drive upgrades?
> 
> -Jeff


Just like it was - Supersize can be applied at any time. So just connect your drive, boot and choose "Supersize" from the menu


----------



## lessd

comer said:


> Just like it was - Supersize can be applied at any time. So just connect your drive, boot and choose "Supersize" from the menu


I just tried it on my 2Tb disk in my TPXL and the record hours went to 317 from 301. This did not change any of the stuff on the hard drive (programs etc.)

Super great job Comer


----------



## Cspot

lessd said:


> I just tried it on my 2Tb disk in my TPXL and the record hours went to 317 from 301. This did not change ant of the stuff on the hard drive (programs etc.)
> 
> Super great job Comer


That's good to hear...doing an upgrade to 2tb this week.


----------



## joesebastian

comer said:


> I have released jmfs with _Supersize_.


Just ran supersize on a TP 2TB drive. Just awesome!!

Before SS:
290 HD or 2543 SD hours in Tivo system Info
22% recording percentage showing in My Shows

After SS:
317 HD or 2779 hrs in Tivo sys info
20% in my shows

Thanks Comer for your excellent work!!!

Joe


----------



## harry99

moyekj said:


> Well looks like I got the wrong Hitachi Deskstar 1TB unit. The model is:
> HDS721010CLA332
> I hooked it up to SATA on a computer at work and ran the Hitachi utility and it states that Acoustic Management is not supported for this drive. In fact there were hardly any features at all to toggle for this drive. Guess that explains why HDDScan had the AAM setting greyed out for the drive as well.
> 
> I had a similar problem - ordered same model Hitachi Deskstar 31000replacements for my THDs - both thru Amazon online 10 days apart - first one was thru CompUSA, the second thru pcbay to save $5. Both came in the exact same box with correct model labels, but both internal labels gave a different part number - the Compusa one was a 11/2009 manufacturing date and the pcbay was a 4/2010 date. I used the hddscan program to set AAM - the one from Compusa came up with the original model number and allowed me to set it to 128. The second one came up with the HDS721010CLA332 model and the AAM was greyed out. The second drive is a little noisier than the first - so am using the first one in the bedroom and the second in the living room where I don't really notice the noise. Anyway, both are working fine.


----------



## lickwid

Good job Comer. I'll have to give it a shot in the coming days. Hopefully won't have to crack my TiVo open after this.


----------



## SMWinnie

I've read the thread twice and I'm not sure there's an authoritative answer. Is there any advantage in a Premiere to the EVDS over an EARS with AAM set to 128?


----------



## comer

SMWinnie said:


> I've read the thread twice and I'm not sure there's an authoritative answer. Is there any advantage in a Premiere to the EVDS over an EARS with AAM set to 128?


If you do not consider "tuned for Audio/Video always-on applications" (EVDS) an advantage - then no.


----------



## richsadams

SMWinnie said:


> I've read the thread twice and I'm not sure there's an authoritative answer. Is there any advantage in a Premiere to the EVDS over an EARS with AAM set to 128?


To add my two-cents...in TiVo's case? No.


----------



## davidahn

dshlyam said:


> I was about to upgrade my 7 Tivos (S3 and HD, all 2tb) to Premier, but would rather wait if it's a major pain to easily expand to 4tb later.


7 TiVo Premieres ($199 x 7 = $1400) plus lifetime service even at their current special of $199 each = $2800. Are you made of money, or is there a way to transfer your lifetime membership without paying TiVo?

I have a SINGLE S3 I was going to upgrade to 2 Premieres but didn't want to pay to transfer S3 to S4 (and waste the S3's lifetime). Is there something I'm missing?

David


----------



## wesbc

richsadams said:


> BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Does that mean Advance Format Drive is ok to use. So with an EARS drive, do we need to set the jumper or leave it as it is setup to use advance formating?

Thanks


----------



## simon7

richsadams said:


> Although WD's 2TB hard drives have less than a year of history it would be apparent by now if they had a major problem. Historically there have been hard drives that were obviously problematic and when that happens there are no doubts. The Seagate 1.5TB drive comes to mind. There were literally thousands of reports of problems all over the Internet from the day that they were released. Firmware updates and replacements calmed things down after a few months but a lot of folks still steer clear of them.
> 
> So I can understand the concern but looking back the reports of DOA or failed drives is about the same per capita as those for the 1TB models which are widely used by TCF members. The ratings on newegg are four out of five and the same goes for Amazon. As wp746911 mentioned, one thing to keep in mind is that the general public doesn't take the time to rate products and those that do have often had problems so negative reports can really skew things.
> 
> Samsung drives on the other hand have never been recommended for TiVo due to their spotty record of performance. There a a few folks using their 1TB Spinpoint drives but there are many more reports of problems either after they were in use for a while or in a number of cases that they wouldn't even boot up. That happened to yours truly a while back. The drive is working fine as a backup but I never could get it to work in a TiVo HD.
> 
> FWIW the 1TB WD10EARS is a two-platter drive and the 2TB WD20EARS is a three-platter drive.
> 
> Your call of course, but based on the positive experiences of WD's 1TB GP drives over the period of a couple of years, the positive feedback about the 2TB models on this thread (and other forums) as well as current ratings I wouldn't hesitate to use them.
> 
> BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Thanks for the reply Rich. Based on your advice I was holding off on the 2TB Samsung drive, but caught it on sale for $59 from Newegg (Shell-shocker w/coupon code that was gone quick!). It just got here, and I'm really tempted to try it in the Premiere (otherwise it will be for backup). I just formatted it and tried a few file copies and it is already very quiet and under Windows. Not sure if I should try to mess with AAM using the Hitachi tool or just leave well enough alone.

BTW, the overall feedback on the preferred WD seems average, but it hit a patch where everything went very, very negative. Maybe they had a production run problem. So far the Samsung drive has been above average, with but with less history. I hear what you are saying though about long-term reliability on the WD drives. I have a 1TB WD in my THD and it has been absolutely great -- but I really think it can be model specific.


----------



## tcfcameron

wesbc said:


> Does that mean Advance Format Drive is ok to use. So with an EARS drive, do we need to set the jumper or leave it as it is setup to use advance formating?
> 
> Thanks


There have been reports of people using the AF (EARS) drives without any problems. I haven't seen one instance, thus far, of anybody being unsuccessful, in using them.

That jumper is a subject I have not seen (or just can't recall it) being discussed here at TCF.

One very important thing about that jumper: Once the jumper is installed, it must remain installed for the rest of the drive's life.

It is also described as being there as a way to provide full compatibility, and partition alignment, with Windows XP. There is no mention of using the jumper for other partition types.

So, I would strongly advise against using the jumper, if the drive is ever to be used in a TiVo. I'd even advise against using it under any other circumstances, since there is a bootable alignment utility CD available, that won't make permanent changes to the drive and limit what you can use it for in the future.

I skimmed the WD website before posting this, to make sure I was recalling correctly. Have a look, here: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/advancedformat/


----------



## richsadams

wesbc said:


> Does that mean Advance Format Drive is ok to use. So with an EARS drive, do we need to set the jumper or leave it as it is setup to use advance formating?
> 
> Thanks


No jumpers, as is.


----------



## wesbc

tcfcameron said:


> There have been reports of people using the AF (EARS) drives without any problems. I haven't seen one instance, thus far, of anybody being unsuccessful, in using them.
> 
> That jumper is a subject I have not seen (or just can't recall it) being discussed here at TCF.
> 
> One very important thing about that jumper: Once the jumper is installed, it must remain installed for the rest of the drive's life.
> 
> It is also described as being there as a way to provide full compatibility, and partition alignment, with Windows XP. There is no mention of using the jumper for other partition types.
> 
> So, I would strongly advise against using the jumper, if the drive is ever to be used in a TiVo. I'd even advise against using it under any other circumstances, since there is a bootable alignment utility CD available, that won't make permanent changes to the drive and limit what you can use it for in the future.
> 
> I skimmed the WD website before posting this, to make sure I was recalling correctly. Have a look, here: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/advancedformat/


Hi, thanks for the detail info. I have an HP media smart running WHS which does not support the advance format and the jumper is required for optimum performance as the alignment software doesn't quite work with WHS. I'm aware that current os Vista and Windows 7 supports the advance formating and with the older os the jumper or alignment utility must be used for optimum performance. Just wasn't sure about TIVO. But with so many reporting success without the jumper I guess that is the way to go.


----------



## Cspot

Another successful upgrade thanks to Comer's work.

Used the wd20ears, wdidle3'd the drive, then copied, expanded, supersized (rev104) in roughly 2 1/2 hours, result 317 hrs.


----------



## aaronwt

davidahn said:


> 7 TiVo Premieres ($199 x 7 = $1400) plus lifetime service even at their current special of $199 each = $2800. Are you made of money, or is there a way to transfer your lifetime membership without paying TiVo?
> 
> I have a SINGLE S3 I was going to upgrade to 2 Premieres but didn't want to pay to transfer S3 to S4 (and waste the S3's lifetime). Is there something I'm missing?
> 
> David


That's a heck of a deal compared to what I paid in the Spring.

How does one get the $199 Lifetime? I still have one box on monthly(the rerst are lifetime). I plan on selling an XL with Lifetime and keeping the regular Premiere and getting Lifetime on it.

EDIT: I didn't realize they were still only charging me $6.95 a month with no commitment. I thought it was supposed to be $9.95 a month.
Since it's only $6.95 a month I might as well keep it on monthly unless I can convince them to give me Lifetime for $150. Otehrwise at $6.95 a month it will take me 3.5 years to break even if I paid for Lifetime at $300. even at $200 it would take almost 2.5 years.

I guess I'll be selling one XL, staying on monthly, and upgrading the drive to 1TB.

Although I want to make sure I keep two boxes with the original drives that have been untouched.


----------



## innocentfreak

aaronwt said:


> That's a heck of a deal compared to what I paid in the Spring.
> 
> How does one get the $199 Lifetime? I still have one box on monthly(the rerst are lifetime). I plan on selling an XL with Lifetime and keeping the regular Premiere and getting Lifetime on it.


Some people who have the $199 upgrade offer for lifetime on their account have been successful talking TiVo reps over the phone into applying it to hardware bought elsewhere.


----------



## dshlyam

davidahn said:


> 7 TiVo Premieres ($199 x 7 = $1400) plus lifetime service even at their current special of $199 each = $2800. Are you made of money, or is there a way to transfer your lifetime membership without paying TiVo?
> 
> I have a SINGLE S3 I was going to upgrade to 2 Premieres but didn't want to pay to transfer S3 to S4 (and waste the S3's lifetime). Is there something I'm missing?
> 
> David


Well, considering that I can sell S3 with 2,777 hours and lifetime for about $600 each on eBay, it's essentially a wash, even after overhead. In fact I even have a $50 left over for a keyboard remote.


----------



## dshlyam

A success!!!

With *comer*'s help in about 5 minute time I have added another 2tb and SuperSize and I have how *5,605* SD hours (*640 HD* hours) Tivo!

As expected, with 70% of utilization shown in UI before a second upgrade (w/ 2tb internal only) now with 4tb I see a full bar and -290%. Considering that this feature was not available before Premier anyway and I managed for the last 10 years somehow, I can live with this. I will probably pester Tivo to fix it. They don't have to, but just may.

Thank you *comer* for your hard work! It's very much appreciated.


----------



## comer

dshlyam said:


> A success!!!
> 
> With *comer*'s help in about 5 minute time I have added another 2tb and SuperSize and I have how *5,605* SD hours (*640 HD* hours) Tivo!
> 
> As expected, with 70% of utilization shown in UI before a second upgrade (w/ 2tb internal only) now with 4tb I see a full bar and -290%. Considering that this feature was not available before Premier anyway and I managed for the last 10 years somehow, I can live with this. I will probably pester Tivo to fix it. They don't have to, but just may.
> 
> Thank you *comer* for your hard work! It's very much appreciated.


No problem, enjoy  Please do let us know how it behaves in a long run and if you notice any glitches besides the negative bar


----------



## richsadams

dshlyam said:


> A success!!!
> 
> With *comer*'s help in about 5 minute time I have added another 2tb and SuperSize and I have how *5,605* SD hours (*640 HD* hours) Tivo!
> 
> As expected, with 70% of utilization shown in UI before a second upgrade (w/ 2tb internal only) now with 4tb I see a full bar and -290%. Considering that this feature was not available before Premier anyway and I managed for the last 10 years somehow, I can live with this. I will probably pester Tivo to fix it. They don't have to, but just may.
> 
> Thank you *comer* for your hard work! It's very much appreciated.


Congrats on that...awesome.

FWIW I wouldn't recommend discussing any of this with TiVo. The front line folks wouldn't have a clue and anyone higher would likely not be helpful at all. TiVo has always turned a blind eye to enthusiast's upgrades and the like, however they don't have to. They could easily make our lives a great deal more difficult if they wanted to. So I wouldn't polk the bear unnecessarily. 

Enjoy!


----------



## tcfcameron

richsadams said:


> Congrats on that...awesome.
> 
> FWIW I wouldn't recommend discussing any of this with TiVo. The front line folks wouldn't have a clue and anyone higher would likely not be helpful at all. TiVo has always turned a blind eye to enthusiast's upgrades and the like, however they don't have to. They could easily make our lives a great deal more difficult if they wanted to. So I wouldn't polk the bear unnecessarily.
> 
> Enjoy!


Agreed!

I hate to post this, but I feel it applies, as many have been waiting on Premiere DIY upgrade options, before ordering/buying one:
TiVo just updated their contract terms/conditions/rules/pricing:
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoservicepaymentplanstermsandconditions.html

Don't forget to review the MSD parts, as well.


----------



## comer

tcfcameron said:


> Agreed!
> 
> I hate to post this, but I feel it applies, as many have been waiting on Premiere DIY upgrade options, before ordering/buying one:
> TiVo just updated their contract terms/conditions/rules/pricing:
> http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoservicepaymentplanstermsandconditions.html
> 
> Don't forget to review the MSD parts, as well.


I have an allergy to legalese.  Any particular points to read?


----------



## comer

richsadams said:


> Congrats on that...awesome.
> 
> FWIW I wouldn't recommend discussing any of this with TiVo. The front line folks wouldn't have a clue and anyone higher would likely not be helpful at all. TiVo has always turned a blind eye to enthusiast's upgrades and the like, however they don't have to. They could easily make our lives a great deal more difficult if they wanted to. So I wouldn't polk the bear unnecessarily.
> 
> Enjoy!


I hope WD makes "My Expander" in capacities more than 1T. That will make Tivo move


----------



## retiredqwest

comer said:


> No problem, enjoy  Please do let us know how it behaves in a long run and if you notice any glitches besides the negative bar


Comer,

I tried to add my 1TB WD DVR Expander to my 2TB and it would never load. It went thru the gyrations; the thumbs and enter, rebooting but it just kept recycling back to the beginning. I gave up after 3 tries. Then when I disconnected the sata cable the Premiere rebooted and went on its merry way.

I was just curious.....

Scotty


----------



## craiggers14

Long story...but I messed up the copying process and now my upgraded drive (1TB WD Green made in June 2010) hangs at the boot screen in my premiere. I definitely left it to boot for nearly an hour...Is anyone willing to share their saved copy of the 320gb image?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## comer

craiggers14 said:


> Long story...but I messed up the copying process and now my upgraded drive (1TB WD Green made in June 2010) hangs at the boot screen in my premiere. I definitely left it to boot for nearly an hour...Is anyone willing to share their saved copy of the 320gb image?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You don't have your original drive anymore?


----------



## comer

retiredqwest said:


> Comer,
> 
> I tried to add my 1TB WD DVR Expander to my 2TB and it would never load. It went thru the gyrations; the thumbs and enter, rebooting but it just kept recycling back to the beginning. I gave up after 3 tries. Then when I disconnected the sata cable the Premiere rebooted and went on its merry way.
> 
> I was just curious.....
> 
> Scotty


Quite possible it is one of the manifestation of the 2TB limit. You can add your external drive by means of JMFS, however. PM me if interested.

*@all*: I do not post the "add external" method in the guide, because it most definitely leads to the known glitch. By asking me about it via PM, you implicitly acknowledge that you know what you are doing, are willing to be a guinea pig and understand the consequences.


----------



## craiggers14

comer said:


> You don't have your original drive anymore?


I moved it to the tivo HD that I have...already overwrote it with the image from the original 160gb drive.


----------



## joesebastian

dshlyam said:


> A success!!!
> 
> With *comer*'s help in about 5 minute time I have added another 2tb and SuperSize and I have how *5,605* SD hours (*640 HD* hours) Tivo!
> 
> As expected, with 70% of utilization shown in UI before a second upgrade (w/ 2tb internal only) now with 4tb I see a full bar and -290%. Considering that this feature was not available before Premier anyway and I managed for the last 10 years somehow, I can live with this. I will probably pester Tivo to fix it. They don't have to, but just may.
> 
> Thank you *comer* for your hard work! It's very much appreciated.


dshlyam,
What external 2tb enclosure and hard drive model did you use? I will PM *comer * for the instructions but want to make sure I have the hardware.

Thanks!


----------



## dshlyam

joesebastian said:


> dshlyam,
> What external 2tb enclosure and hard drive model did you use? I will PM *comer * for the instructions but want to make sure I have the hardware.
> 
> Thanks!


I had multiple Tivos over the last 3-4 years working great with some of the cheapest enclosures out there. Right now I'm using xtrastor esata enclosure, but I'm pretty sure almost any other enclosure will do. (I just did a quick search and check ebay item 130407248341. I used to buy these for about $15 shipped, but it seems that the price went up a little bit)

As for the drive, I'm using WD WD20EARS that have been on sale for about $80 lately, but again many other drives should do just fine.

Essentially being a cheapskate, I usually go for the cheapest solution. I strongly recommend reading the drive expansion FAQ.


----------



## ckgoodwin

Just wanted to say yet another thanks to Comer for making and maintaining the jmfs isos. Yesterday I upgraded my stock Premier to 2TB using an $89 WD20EARS (mfg 9/17). It took about 4hrs and 45 mins to copy the factory drive over (source on eSata, target on sata-USB adapter). Expanded and supersized and am now at 317 hrs HD. No problems with soft reboots. Sweet!

I went ahead and sent over a contribution to your beer fund via the Donate button Comer. Many thanks...

- Chris


----------



## gamo62

Hey guys. I have a couple of questions about hard drives? Microcenter has a good deal on the Barracuda LP ST320005N4A1AS 2TB 5900 RPM drive. I also see a Spinpoint and the WD Caviar Green WD20EARS drive. They are all about the same price within $5.00. Which one should I go with? Thanks!


----------



## comer

gamo62 said:


> Hey guys. I have a couple of questions about hard drives? Microcenter has a good deal on the Barracuda LP ST320005N4A1AS 2TB 5900 RPM drive. I also see a Spinpoint and the WD Caviar Green WD20EARS drive. They are all about the same price within $5.00. Which one should I go with? Thanks!


It seems that the drive manufacturer of choice here is WD. Nothing particularly wrong with others, just no statistic, everybody is using WD


----------



## richsadams

ckgoodwin said:


> Just wanted to say yet another thanks to Comer for making and maintaining the jmfs isos. Yesterday I upgraded my stock Premier to 2TB using an $89 WD20EARS (mfg 9/17). It took about 4hrs and 45 mins to copy the factory drive over (source on eSata, target on sata-USB adapter). Expanded and supersized and am now at 317 hrs HD. No problems with soft reboots. Sweet!
> 
> I went ahead and sent over a contribution to your beer fund via the Donate button Comer. Many thanks...
> 
> - Chris


Thanks for the valuable model and manufacture date info. :up: Good to know that you didn't have to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout. So far September 15th still seems to be the magic date where the soft reboot issue is no longer an issue.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> Hey guys. I have a couple of questions about hard drives? Microcenter has a good deal on the Barracuda LP ST320005N4A1AS 2TB 5900 RPM drive. I also see a Spinpoint and the WD Caviar Green WD20EARS drive. They are all about the same price within $5.00. Which one should I go with? Thanks!


As Comer mentions, the WD drives are top of the list. I'd avoid the Samsung drives based on a couple of years of issues with 1TB upgrades...although a few folks have them in service others have not been so lucky and they've never been on the recommended list.


----------



## gamo62

I just bought the WD WD20EARS 2tb Green Drive with a date of 10-17-2010? Am I good regarding the Intellipark issue? And also, will this drive allow me to adjust the Acoustic management? Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> I just bought the WD WD20EARS 2tb Green Drive with a date of 10-17-2010? Am I good regarding the Intellipark issue? And also, will this drive allow me to adjust the Acoustic management? Thanks.


Yes...it looks like you won't have to deal with the Intellipark issue since the drive was manufactured after 9/15/10. Also yes, you can adjust the AAM to 128 (quietest setting) with hddscan. (BTW you can do that at any time...before or after upgrading the drive.)


----------



## gamo62

richsadams said:


> Yes...it looks like you won't have to deal with the Intellipark issue since the drive was manufactured after 9/15/10. Also yes, you can adjust the AAM to 128 (quietest setting) with hddscan. (BTW you can do that at any time...before or after upgrading the drive.)


Thanks for the info. I bought the drive, adjusted the AAM to 128, am patiently waiting on the new unit to arrive. The supersize option on comer's file? Is that for internal as well as external? or the other way around? I've created a Boot CD with the file, and have done a dry run boot. It gets to the looking for a Tivo drive portion. I'm hoping everything else is as easy as it has been upto this point. Thanks again.


----------



## craiggers14

craiggers14 said:


> I moved it to the tivo HD that I have...already overwrote it with the image from the original 160gb drive.


Anyone out there with any other suggestions?


----------



## ilkevinli

I think your only option would be to buy a drive on ebay that has the image for the premiere on it.



craiggers14 said:


> Anyone out there with any other suggestions?


----------



## Bai Shen

So why is the Intellipark setting such a big deal for a Tivo? I have two of the drives running in a NAS with no problems.


----------



## lessd

Bai Shen said:


> So why is the Intellipark setting such a big deal for a Tivo? I have two of the drives running in a NAS with no problems.


On *some* TiVos with *some* WD Intellipark drives the TiVo would not do a soft re-boot, a hard re-boot was no problem, but a soft reboot happens each time TiVo updated the software and the TiVo would never finish the boot unless you unplugged the unit, so if you were not home your TiVo would not be record anything until you got home saw the problem and unplugged the TiVo.


----------



## Jonathan_S

lessd said:


> On *some* TiVos with *some* WD Intellipark drives the TiVo would not do a soft re-boot, a hard re-boot was no problem, but a soft reboot happens each time TiVo updated the software and the TiVo would never finish the boot unless you unplugged the unit, so if you were not home your TiVo would not be record anything until you got home saw the problem and unplugged the TiVo.


And the assumption is that during a soft reboot TiVo goes just long enough without poking the drive that it parks itself and then Tivo can't handle booting with the parked drive. (Maybe some timing thing goes wrong, or the drive kick back a temporary error while it's spinning back up and TiVo doesn't handle it correctly)

But the TiVo just sits there without ever moving on to booting the TiVo App off the drive.

A longer delay or disabling Intellipark (so it doesn't trigger during a soft reboot) works around the problem. Presumably adding a more robust error handling to TiVo's boot sequece would be the proper fix, but it's not one upgraders can do themselves.


----------



## Bai Shen

Interesting.


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> Thanks for the info. I bought the drive, adjusted the AAM to 128, am patiently waiting on the new unit to arrive. The supersize option on comer's file? Is that for internal as well as external? or the other way around? I've created a Boot CD with the file, and have done a dry run boot. It gets to the looking for a Tivo drive portion. I'm hoping everything else is as easy as it has been upto this point. Thanks again.


Supersize only applies to internal drives. Since you're going to upgrade your Premiere's internal to 2TB's, it looks like you don't want to go down the external path. There are apparently issues with anything >2TB's.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## Mgnyc11

I successfully upgraded to a 2 TB drive. This was the drive I purchased for a $90 special.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514

Only issue I had was my CD was corrupt because I burned the ISO over the network and while it booted up successfully the copy did not work. Otherwise 2.5 hrs later I have more recording space than I know what to do with! 

Thanks so much Comer!


----------



## comer

Mgnyc11 said:


> I successfully upgraded to a 2 TB drive. This was the drive I purchased for a $90 special.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514
> 
> Only issue I had was my CD was corrupt because I burned the ISO over the network and while it booted up successfully the copy did not work. Otherwise 2.5 hrs later I have more recording space than I know what to do with!
> 
> Thanks so much Comer!


Enjoy!


----------



## Idol

I've been trying to follow the updates to Comer's upgrade tool in this thread, but I want to verify a couple things before I try it out.

The latest jmfs version 104 with supersize will expand a 2 TB drive to around 317 hours? 

The issue with the negative counter only occurs when trying to add a second external drive to the system, correct?

Thanks


----------



## gamo62

Thanks to everyone here who helped me thru the upgrade. After 9 Hours, I now have a 2TB PXL. I had no idea that it took so long, but it is a 1TB native. I suppose if I only had the Premiere, it wouldn't have had taken that long. 

But I wasn't in a hurry, and wanted to make sure it was done right. Thanks again!


----------



## comer

Idol said:


> I've been trying to follow the updates to Comer's upgrade tool in this thread, but I want to verify a couple things before I try it out.
> 
> The latest jmfs version 104 with supersize will expand a 2 TB drive to around 317 hours?
> 
> The issue with the negative counter only occurs when trying to add a second external drive to the system, correct?
> 
> Thanks


All correct.


----------



## gamo62

gamo62 said:


> Thanks to everyone here who helped me thru the upgrade. After 9 Hours, I now have a 2TB PXL. I had no idea that it took so long, but it is a 1TB native. I suppose if I only had the Premiere, it wouldn't have had taken that long.
> 
> But I wasn't in a hurry, and wanted to make sure it was done right. Thanks again!


OK. After the service update, I am only able to view Live TV. I cannot go to the menus at all. Pressing the Tivo button does nothing. Any idea what might be going on here? Thanks.


----------



## gamo62

Are there any kickstart codes for the Premiere/XL? I may try that before I recopy the hard drive. Thanks.


----------



## comer

gamo62 said:


> Are there any kickstart codes for the Premiere/XL? I may try that before I recopy the hard drive. Thanks.


Did you try to reboot - as in "disconnect and reconnect the power"?


----------



## Hybrid

gamo62 said:


> Are there any kickstart codes for the Premiere/XL? I may try that before I recopy the hard drive. Thanks.


that happened way back with my series 1 and 2 I was told that tivo does not checksum the update before it's applied, I hope that is no longer the case now days, I also hope you still have the original drive, you might need to redo the drive from the working one.


----------



## richsadams

Hybrid said:


> that happened way back with my series 1 and 2 I was told that tivo does not checksum the update before it's applied, I hope that is no longer the case now days, I also hope you still have the original drive, you might need to redo the drive from the working one.


TiVoJerry confirmed that TiVo has checksum built in to all of their updates.


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> Are there any kickstart codes for the Premiere/XL? I may try that before I recopy the hard drive. Thanks.


As Comer said, try a power cycle (unplug TiVo, wait about 10 seconds for the drive to spin down and plug it back in).

All of the Kickstart diagnostic and repair programs work with the Premiere, although the process is slightly different than with earlier models (scroll down to the bottom of the post for Premiere-specific instructions):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

However, that would be my last resort. Based on numerous posts about successful upgrades, there's no reason yours shouldn't be successful as well. As Hybrid says, it might take starting over again to get it right.


----------



## Hybrid

thank you comer some real thanks going your way for beer.

I think the % bar indeed has a bug because I accidentally pressed twice the clear button to delete a recording and my % bar went from 4% to 0% even thou I had other recordings in there, I could not get it right until I recovered the deleted show then pressed clear once, yes I could recreate it by doing the same.

if anyone is interested in saving a copy of the image, gzip compressed it a bit while not being awfully painful on the waiting for me "time" gave me 434 minute/7.2 Hrs of course YMMV, I tried lzip,bzip2 but it was going to take around 7 days with the fast compression setting

my image compressed to 239 GiB

I guess most will use the live cd, if anyone wants the command/s I'll edit this


----------



## Hybrid

richsadams said:


> TiVoJerry confirmed that TiVo has checksum built in to all of their updates.


thanks, I'm glad that's no longer the case.


----------



## meyerovb

I am swapping in a WD20EURS to a Premiere unit. Because it is an AV-GP drive, is it still recommended I modify it's AAM? If so, should I set it to 128?

Drive manufacture date October 13, 2010. With that date, is it recommended I modify anything else on the drive (like intellipark or something else I haven't read about in the forum yet)?

Thanks!


----------



## gamo62

richsadams said:


> As Comer said, try a power cycle (unplug TiVo, wait about 10 seconds for the drive to spin down and plug it back in).
> 
> All of the Kickstart diagnostic and repair programs work with the Premiere, although the process is slightly different than with earlier models (scroll down to the bottom of the post for Premiere-specific instructions):
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2
> 
> However, that would be my last resort. Based on numerous posts about successful upgrades, there's no reason yours shouldn't be successful as well. As Hybrid says, it might take starting over again to get it right.


I ended up doing the Kicstart 52 code. For the life of me, all I got was LiveTV. Not even able to get to the menu whatsoever. After the reinstall, everything came up fine. Thanks again.

Are there commands on the CD that will allow a person to back up the image? If not, is there an easy way to do so?


----------



## richsadams

meyerovb said:


> I am swapping in a WD20EURS to a Premiere unit. Because it is an AV-GP drive, is it still recommended I modify it's AAM? If so, should I set it to 128?
> 
> Drive manufacture date October 13, 2010. With that date, is it recommended I modify anything else on the drive (like intellipark or something else I haven't read about in the forum yet)?
> 
> Thanks!


Welcome to the forum. Since the WD20EURS is an AV dedicated drive the AAM default is already 128. Since the drive was manufactured after 09/15/10 you shouldn't have to tweak the Intellipark timeout setting. You should be good to go as is!


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> I ended up doing the Kicstart 52 code. For the life of me, all I got was LiveTV. Not even able to get to the menu whatsoever. After the reinstall, everything came up fine. Thanks again.
> 
> Are there commands on the CD that will allow a person to back up the image? If not, is there an easy way to do so?


Glad to hear things are good. :up: Enjoy!


----------



## meyerovb

Thanks rich!

I'm wondering if the regular green drive with aam adjusted would be the same exact thing as an av-gp, or if there are actual physical differences to the drive?

Also, any chance the premiere can take >2tb drive? Like a WD30EZRSDTL?


----------



## gamo62

meyerovb said:


> Thanks rich!
> 
> I'm wondering if the regular green drive with aam adjusted would be the same exact thing as an av-gp, or if there are actual physical differences to the drive?
> 
> Also, any chance the premiere can take >2tb drive? Like a WD30EZRSDTL?


I'm not sure if the file system can support a 3tb drive. Right now the price is prohibitive for a 3tb drive. $259.00 You can get a 2TB for under $100.


----------



## richsadams

meyerovb said:


> Thanks rich!
> 
> I'm wondering if the regular green drive with aam adjusted would be the same exact thing as an av-gp, or if there are actual physical differences to the drive?
> 
> Also, any chance the premiere can take >2tb drive? Like a WD30EZRSDTL?


There are differences but as far as TiVo is concerned a WD GP drive with the AAM adjusted to 128 would be equal to WD's AV GP line of drives.

Unfortunately there seem to be partition issues when trying to upgrade any TiVo over the 2TB size. Various vendors were selling 4TB kits (2TB internal/2TB external) however that went away a while back. JMFS author Comer worked on this as well and has run into some snags so recommends against it, at least for now.


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> Right now the price is prohibitive for a 3tb drive. $259.00


LOL. I vividly recall the day that the KS62 hack for adding an eSATA drive to a TiVo Series3 was discovered (long before TiVo added the external plug and play option for the general masses). A bunch of us rushed out and bought the largest bare drives available at the time, 500GB's, and external enclosures (add another $60) to get that "huge" additional recording space! At the time a 500GB Seagate DB35 drive cost, you guessed it, $259...on sale!  (Still have it running as a backup drive today!)

I have no doubt that if it would work some folks wouldn't hesitate a moment to slip a 3TB drive into their TiVo...even at that "prohibitive" price.


----------



## comer

meyerovb said:


> Thanks rich!
> 
> I'm wondering if the regular green drive with aam adjusted would be the same exact thing as an av-gp, or if there are actual physical differences to the drive?
> 
> Also, any chance the premiere can take >2tb drive? Like a WD30EZRSDTL?


Here's your answer: post #963.


----------



## MikeAndrews

meyerovb said:


> I am swapping in a WD20EURS to a Premiere unit. ..


Thanks for the mention. I see I can get one of those for $120-$130. I'm going to order one immediately.



comer said:


> ... Neither as an internal nor as an external drive (*the upcoming version of jmfs has an ability to add any drive as external - ala "bless")*. ...
> So, again, looks like Tivo Premiere is hard-limited to 4T total storage ..


Now THAT is the good news!

Comer, can I ask for some assurance that it's looking like if we do a single 2TB internal upgrade the external 2TB can be added and blessed at a later time while preserving recordings?


----------



## comer

netringer said:


> Thanks for the mention. I see I can get one of those for $120-$130. I'm going to order one immediately.
> 
> Now THAT is the good news!
> 
> Comer, can I ask for some assurance that it's looking like if we do a single 2TB internal upgrade the external 2TB can be added and blessed at a later time while preserving recordings?


That was before the "nagative space" bug was discovered, sorry 
I don't think I or anyone else beside Tivo can do anything here.
So to answer your question once and for all - yes, you *can* add an external storage now without losing your recordings. You *will* experience the "negative space" bug though. *Nobody* knows if "negative space" is the full extent and the only effect of it.


----------



## richsadams

Apologies for misspeaking earlier...I knew there was an issue with 4TB TiVo upgrades, but if it's only the negative reads on the usage meter, seems like it's not a big deal.


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> Apologies for misspeaking earlier...I knew there was an issue with 4TB TiVo upgrades, but if it's only the negative reads on the usage meter, seems like it's not a big deal.


I think the point is not the negative read but if there is something other than that going on that if you did get passed 327 hours of HD programs you may see other problems (like not being able to go past 327 hours etc. and still have the program) The people that first offered that 4Tb option have for some reason stopped, is the only reason the neg read ??


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> I think the point is not the negative read but if there is something other than that going on that if you did get passed 327 hours of HD programs you may see other problems (like not being able to go past 327 hours etc. and still have the program) The people that first offered that 4Tb option have for some reason stopped, is the only reason the neg read ??


Indeed, everyone pulling their 4TB retail option is worrisome and must have some basis in issues and returns they were having of some sort.


----------



## gespears

Hey Comer, the 3tb test you did was with a Segate. Do you think there is a chance it would be different with a WD?

Hmmmm?

Thanks.


----------



## tcfcameron

The EASY way to set AAM & Idle Timer on WD drives:

I have accidentally stumbled upon an easy way to get your new WD GP or AV-GP drive(s) set up with your desired AAM & Idle Timer settings, WITHOUT HAVING TO MESS AROUND WITH YOUR BIOS SETTINGS!

1. Download the IBM/Hitachi Feature Tool v2.12 - It must be the floppy disk version, that includes an installer that creates the bootable disk. IT MUST BE VERSION 2.12.

2. Download "WDIDLE3.EXE" v1.05 (earlier versions don't work with the newest drives).

3. After creating the Feature Tool bootable disk, simply copy WDIDLE3.EXE to the same disk.

4. Forget about changing your BIOS settings (the SATA/IDE mode settings), as it won't be necessary.

5. With your WD hard drive(s) hooked up, and the floppy disk inserted, power-on your computer. Let the floppy boot up into the Feature Tool software.

6. Use the Feature Tool software to set your desired AAM setting.

7. Exit the Feature Tool software, turn on CAPS LOCK, run WDIDLE3.EXE /? from the command prompt to get the list of options. Set your desired timeout (which should be /D for "Disabled" when the drive is going to be used in a TiVo).

8. Power down, or reboot, depending on what you want to do next. These settings can be changed at ANY TIME, without affecting the data on the drive.

Why does this work? It's because the Feature Tool software loads the appropriate drivers and sets the communication mode in a way that allows changes to be made to the drive's settings.

It's very likely that this can be done with a CD/DVD or flash drive. But, I have not verified that yet.


----------



## comer

gespears said:


> Hey Comer, the 3tb test you did was with a Segate. Do you think there is a chance it would be different with a WD?
> 
> Hmmmm?
> 
> Thanks.


I doubt. Given various issues Tivo has with 2TB barrier and the fact (I reiterated a few times) that 2TB is 4 byte with all bits set (the max number that can be expressed in 4 bytes) of 512-byte blocks - I firmly believe that Tivo just won't work on/with anything larger than 2TB. It's just not made for it.


----------



## richsadams

tcfcameron said:


> The EASY way to set AAM & Idle Timer on WD drives:
> 
> I have accidentally stumbled upon an easy way to get your new WD GP or AV-GP drive(s) set up with your desired AAM & Idle Timer settings, WITHOUT HAVING TO MESS AROUND WITH YOUR BIOS SETTINGS!
> 
> 1. Download the IBM/Hitachi Feature Tool v2.12 - It must be the floppy disk version, that includes an installer that creates the bootable disk. IT MUST BE VERSION 2.12.
> 
> 2. Download "WDIDLE3.EXE" v1.05 (earlier versions don't work with the newest drives).
> 
> 3. After creating the Feature Tool bootable disk, simply copy WDIDLE3.EXE to the same disk.
> 
> 4. Forget about changing your BIOS settings (the SATA/IDE mode settings), as it won't be necessary.
> 
> 5. With your WD hard drive(s) hooked up, and the floppy disk inserted, power-on your computer. Let the floppy boot up into the Feature Tool software.
> 
> 6. Use the Feature Tool software to set your desired AAM setting.
> 
> 7. Exit the Feature Tool software, turn on CAPS LOCK, run WDIDLE3.EXE /? from the command prompt to get the list of options. Set your desired timeout (which should be /D for "Disabled" when the drive is going to be used in a TiVo).
> 
> 8. Power down, or reboot, depending on what you want to do next. These settings can be changed at ANY TIME, without affecting the data on the drive.
> 
> Why does this work? It's because the Feature Tool software loads the appropriate drivers and sets the communication mode in a way that allows changes to be made to the drive's settings.
> 
> It's very likely that this can be done with a CD/DVD or flash drive. But, I have not verified that yet.


And then pop your Seals and Crofts cassette in, sit back and relax. Kidding.  I actually have a USB floppy drive...somewhere around here.  Thanks for the tip(s). I'd imagine it would work with a CD or thumb drive as well (providing the BIOS is set to allow booting from either first  ).

I never had to change any BIOS settings to run either program, but I know there are folks that have so it will be great if it works for everyone, on everyone's computer. Nice work. :up:


----------



## NYHeel

Quick question,

Can I use a 2TB drive that I currently have in my TivoHD for a Premiere upgrade with JMFS? Obviously, I don't expect to keep the recordings. Also, if I can, do I need to wipe the drive clean or will JMFS do that for me? Lastly, if I have to do the drive wiping myself, anyone know any good tool for that? Thanks for the help.


----------



## lessd

NYHeel said:


> Quick question,
> 
> Can I use a 2TB drive that I currently have in my TivoHD for a Premiere upgrade with JMFS? Obviously, I don't expect to keep the recordings. Also, if I can, do I need to wipe the drive clean or will JMFS do that for me? Lastly, if I have to do the drive wiping myself, anyone know any good tool for that? Thanks for the help.


YES you do not have to do anything to the 2Tb drive just make sure you know what drive is the original as the source and the other drive (2Tb) will be copied to.
But for $99 I would consider a new 2Tb drive to put into a new TiVo.


----------



## gespears

comer said:


> I doubt. Given various issues Tivo has with 2TB barrier and the fact (I reiterated a few times) that 2TB is 4 byte with all bits set (the max number that can be expressed in 4 bytes) of 512-byte blocks - I firmly believe that Tivo just won't work on/with anything larger than 2TB. It's just not made for it.


Bummer.


----------



## plazman30

So I just read through way too much of this thread. I assume that the version that is supposed to allow you to bless an external drive for use on a Tivo has not been released yet?


----------



## comer

plazman30 said:


> So I just read through way too much of this thread. I assume that the version that is supposed to allow you to bless an external drive for use on a Tivo has not been released yet?


No. Tivo has an issue with too much of storage


----------



## cherry ghost

I'm going to attempt a 2TB WDEARS(9/08) in my Premiere. Can anyone give me a quick pointer on what I need to do other than the instructions in Comer's sig?


----------



## plazman30

I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?


----------



## dshlyam

So, less than 2 weeks after adding external 2TB drive, my TIVO is not longer functioning. The counter got to -380&#37; and then Tivo got stuck in reboot cycle with GSODs in between.

Not good, not good...


----------



## dshlyam

Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...


----------



## lessd

dshlyam said:


> Update:
> 
> Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.
> 
> Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.
> 
> Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...


When the professionals stopped offering the 2+2 that was a warning something was not working correctly as been said before, your experience just confirmed a problem. We will all have to live with 327 hours of HD record time until or unless another solution is found.


----------



## comer

dshlyam said:


> Update:
> 
> Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.
> 
> Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.
> 
> Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...


I am sorry, man  Download it and your uberness shall be restored 
Thanks a lot for trying it, great contribution! :up:


----------



## dshlyam

lessd said:


> When the professionals stopped offering the 2+2 that was a warning something was not working correctly as been said before, your experience just confirmed a problem. We will all have to live with 327 hours of HD record time until or unless another solution is found.


Well, yeah, that what you get for being a guinea pig, but someone has to try it.  It would've been nice if the "professionals" contributed to the community if only by giving a warning. Both "professionals" gave vague answers about disappearance of 2+2, with one claiming not having drives in stock (!). IMO, the number of enthusiasts willing to do the upgrade themselves is infinitesimal to affect any business model. The "professionals" would get much respect by contributing back to the community that added a great deal to their success.

BTW, I checked the drive, it appears perfectly healthy. All SMART parameters are green, don't see any issues at all. It would be much better if it was a particular bad drive vs. the obvious alternative...


----------



## richsadams

dshlyam said:


> Update:
> 
> Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.
> 
> Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.
> 
> Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...


Sorry to hear about that...TiVo Pioneers sometimes pay the price for the rest. Thanks for giving it a shot.

FWIW recordings are striped across both the internal and external drives (to meet certain regulations), not dedicated to one or the other so no matter what happens, when an external drive is divorced all recordings made since the expansion drive was attached will be lost.

Glad to hear your second drive is good...you can always repurpose it. At least your TiVo still has 2TB's of real estate! Thanks again for putting yourself out there. :up:


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

plazman30 said:


> I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?


One thing to consider about A/V drives is they are probably using a different firmware algorithm to recover from bad sectors.

For a typical consumer drive the mfr sets the firmware to retry and retry and retry and retry for a long time when it encounters a bad sector. That way Joe Sixpack is less likely to lose any files from his porn collection.

But A/V is different. Nobody wants to have a box freeze up while the drive retries. So instead the drive will report an error more quickly (and return bad data). This bad block might cause some pixellation on the screen, but then life goes on, the show goes on.

I don't know how frequently that situation occurs. Sorry to not have anything more constructive to tell you.


----------



## MikeAndrews

plazman30 said:


> I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?


I just ordered a 2TB WD AV drive from Buy.com for $114.

On reading Western Digital product information I got the impression what they have in mind for the design of the AV drives is commercial DVR use, like for CCTV DVRs constantly recording multiple streams or theaters(?) or POS displays. In other words really 7x24 heavy recording use. Yeah, in our TiVo we are constantly recording 2 streams, but some CCTV DVRs record 8 streams.

So the AV drive is overkill for a TiVo but for me it's a good choice to spend the extra $20 or so when I'm buying the drive purposely for the TiVo.

The mission for a regular drive is more random read/write access than a DVR needs. That's why, among other things, for general purpose PC use the more cache on the drive is better, but for DVR use it barely matters.

I'd have no hesitation to use the regular WD Green drive if the street price of the AV drive wasn't that close.


----------



## VideoGrabber

dshlyam said:


> BTW, I checked the drive, it appears perfectly healthy. All SMART parameters are green, don't see any issues at all. It would be much better if it was a particular bad drive vs. the obvious alternative...


Dan,

just because SMART says things are OK doesn't mean they are.  Also, even if you do a full surface-scan Read with no errors, doesn't mean the drive is OK. (I found that out the hard way, at ~800G in to a 1TB drive, a few years back.) I see people buying new drives all the time and installing them, assuming they must be fine because they are new. Odds are they may be, but a significant percentage are not, depending on brand and how they were packed for shipping. They then report a few weeks or months later about how their new drive went bad so soon, when in fact it was already bad when they slipped it out of the anti-stat bag.  They just didn't know it yet.

If you really want to know if your drive is 100% or not, I'd recommend that you download and run the Lifeguard Diagnostic utility from Western Digital. This can be run on drives from any manufacturer.

Run the Quick Test first, which will weed out any obviously bad drives in about a minute. I also like to start (and then stop after 20 seconds) the Extended Test, which exercises the servos to move the heads rapidly around in a random pattern. But then abort, since that test only performs a Read, and won't find all potential problems. The last step is the slow one, which is Write Zeroes with Full Erase. You'll find that on a 2 TB drive this will run for 22-23 hours (at least mine does, off a SATA-USB2 interface cable... eSATA may be faster), but when it finishes you'll know for sure. If there are any spots on the drive where blocks cannot be successfully written, this will find them.

Using this methodology has kept me from putting ~7 defective drives into operation over the years (which went right back to Newegg), out of about 100 or so. Of course, not all of those were 2 TB drives, maybe 50 or 60 (the majority were 1.5 TBs). I found the time spent on burn-in acceptance testing to be very worthwhile to me. YMMV.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

VideoGrabber said:


> Also, even if you do a full surface-scan Read with no errors, doesn't mean the drive is OK. (I found that out the hard way, at ~800G in to a 1TB drive, a few years back.) I see people buying new drives all the time and installing them, assuming they must be fine because they are new. Odds are they may be, but a significant percentage are not, depending on brand and how they were packed for shipping.


I agree with your observation, and I think a large part of the problem is because consumer grade drives are dirt cheap. Which means *the manufacturers can't afford to test them* very well.

It takes about 3 hrs to do a single read pass of a 1 TB drive. A manufacturer is making millions of these drives a year. So he can't afford to do too many surface scans on any individual drive. I suspect that the manufacturing test involves no more than 1 full write pass followed by 1 full read test. Or maybe not even that, maybe just a read of 10% of sectors. Plus of course additional tests on a very small subset of sectors. This is not sufficient testing to weed out marginal drives. That's where the end user comes in. They're the final QC.


----------



## cherry ghost

success with a WD20EARS! lowered AAM to 128, ran wdidle3, copied, expanded, supersized. No problem with a reboot through the menus. 

Thanks Comer!!! and Rich!! and everyone else!


----------



## comer

cherry ghost said:


> success with a WD20EARS! lowered AAM to 128, ran wdidle3, copied, expanded, supersized. No problem with a reboot through the menus.
> 
> Thanks Comer!!! and Rich!! and everyone else!


No problem  Congratulations, enjoy!


----------



## plazman30

Comer,

You were going to try and find a way to get any external to work on a Tivo. Have you given up on that?


----------



## comer

plazman30 said:


> Comer,
> 
> You were going to try and find a way to get any external to work on a Tivo. Have you given up on that?


External - no problem. More than 2TB - no way. 
So if you want to add a 100G external to stock 320G - it's all fine.
But if you expanded to full 2TB and want to add 100G to that - there's a bug.


----------



## plazman30

So, if I bought an external, say a 1 TB. How do I get that to work with my Tivo Premiere?


----------



## JSearfoss

Does this upgrade process transfer the current content on the drive so you don't have to get the cable card re-paired ?


----------



## richsadams

JSearfoss said:


> Does this upgrade process transfer the current content on the drive so you don't have to get the cable card re-paired ?


Yes.


----------



## JSearfoss

richsadams said:


> Yes.


Thanks. Think I will give it a try. I like the idea of having the original drive as a backup. In case a drive goes bad some day.


----------



## richsadams

JSearfoss said:


> Thanks. Think I will give it a try. I like the idea of having the original drive as a backup. In case a drive goes bad some day.


Excellent plan. :up: Happy upgrading!


----------



## vurbano

Anyone experienced an unexpected reboot? I had one happen yesterday.


----------



## H8ff0000

I'm about to have my Premiere arrive in the mail any day now. I was wondering, could I make an image of the original drive? As in, a file or set of files backed up on my PC. I was thinking maybe doing an image of the original and then doing some heavy duty LZMA2 compression.


----------



## ovitevol

Hi All, I am about to buy a 2TB drive for Tivo Premiere Upgrade? Which one should I pick? Thanks!!!!

Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ZCXK0I/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

OR

Seagate Barracuda LP 2 TB 5900RPM SATA 3 GB/s 32 MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive ST32000542AS-Bare Drive

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barra...42AS-Bare/dp/B0028Y4CY6/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_1


----------



## richsadams

ovitevol said:


> Hi All, I am about to buy a 2TB drive for Tivo Premiere Upgrade? Which one should I pick? Thanks!!!!
> 
> Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ZCXK0I/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> OR
> 
> Seagate Barracuda LP 2 TB 5900RPM SATA 3 GB/s 32 MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive ST32000542AS-Bare Drive
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barra...42AS-Bare/dp/B0028Y4CY6/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_1


I'd go with the WD20EARS since it's a proven commodity here. The Seagate may work fine, but AFAIK it's untested w/TiVo.


----------



## dshlyam

VideoGrabber said:


> Run the Quick Test first, which will weed out any obviously bad drives in about a minute. I also like to start (and then stop after 20 seconds) the Extended Test, which exercises the servos to move the heads rapidly around in a random pattern. But then abort, since that test only performs a Read, and won't find all potential problems. The last step is the slow one, which is Write Zeroes with Full Erase. You'll find that on a 2 TB drive this will run for 22-23 hours (at least mine does, off a SATA-USB2 interface cable... eSATA may be faster), but when it finishes you'll know for sure. If there are any spots on the drive where blocks cannot be successfully written, this will find them.


Thank you for the suggestion. The write test ran for about 5 hours and finished successfully, so it's not the drive...


----------



## Idol

I just finished upgrading my TP with a new WD20EVDS that I bought new on EBay for $95 & free shipping. Everything worked as advertised. The process took around 2 1/2 hours with SATA connections on both drives. 

I decide to monitor the temperature of both drives during the copy process with a simple digital thermometer. I found that the 320 GB drive maxed out at 91 deg F, and the 2 TB maxed out at 95 deg F. Not bad considering the additional size and mass of the 2 TB drive.

Thanks for all of your hard work comer, I'll be clicking on your donation button here in the next couple days.


----------



## gator_grabber

Thanks for the useful info, I was just looking at a WD20EVDS for my unit.


----------



## brewman

aaronwt said:


> WD drives are generally very reliable. I've used well over 100 WD drives(I'm currently using over forty right now) and have no issues with them.
> Granted I'm not using the WD expander, but the three WD external drives I use also have been fine for the last 2 or 3 years.


I tried a WD Expander (500 GB) with my TivoHD and it died within 6 months.


----------



## richsadams

Idol said:


> I just finished upgrading my TP with a new WD20EVDS that I bought new on EBay for $95 & free shipping. Everything worked as advertised. The process took around 2 1/2 hours with SATA connections on both drives.
> 
> I decide to monitor the temperature of both drives during the copy process with a simple digital thermometer. I found that the 320 GB drive maxed out at 91 deg F, and the 2 TB maxed out at 95 deg F. Not bad considering the additional size and mass of the 2 TB drive.
> 
> Thanks for all of your hard work comer, I'll be clicking on your donation button here in the next couple days.


Congrats on your "new" TiVo! Did you run the wdidle3.exe program to adjust or disable the Intellipark timeout feature? If not did you try a menu restart? Either way do you happen to have the drive's manufacture date? TIA!


----------



## TVCricket

Ok guys, so I'm about to cancel my Directv for a Tivo Premiere, but I'm not sure if the XL is worth it. How easy is the HDD upgrade on these units if I get the regular Premiere? I have upgraded a Series 2 from Weaknees and it was very easy. Thanks.


----------



## Shagger

TVCricket said:


> Ok guys, so I'm about to cancel my Directv for a Tivo Premiere, but I'm not sure if the XL is worth it. How easy is the HDD upgrade on these units if I get the regular Premiere? I have upgraded a Series 2 from Weaknees and it was very easy. Thanks.


With Comer's CD ISO its really easy - about the same as the series 2 upgrade. The trouble spot for me was disabling the Intellipark since my old motherboard would not recognize SATA drives > 1TB. After I got that done it was easy. I do recommend you wait to clone the drive until after you have any cablecards installed.


----------



## Idol

richsadams said:


> Congrats on your "new" TiVo! Did you run the wdidle3.exe program to adjust or disable the Intellipark timeout feature? If not did you try a menu restart? Either way do you happen to have the drive's manufacture date? TIA!


Rich,

I ran wdidle3 on the drive before I ran jmfs. I wouldn't completely disable Intellipark with the /d argument, so it set it at 68 minutes. I think that should be OK. The drive was built November 10, 2010, so I should be past the problem date. It took a couple minutes to download all the ads and junk after it booted, but it's running great now.


----------



## richsadams

Idol said:


> Rich,
> 
> I ran wdidle3 on the drive before I ran jmfs. I wouldn't completely disable Intellipark with the /d argument, so it set it at 68 minutes. I think that should be OK. The drive was built November 10, 2010, so I should be past the problem date. It took a couple minutes to download all the ads and junk after it booted, but it's running great now.


Good info, thanks and enjoy! :up:


----------



## TVCricket

Shagger said:


> With Comer's CD ISO its really easy - about the same as the series 2 upgrade. The trouble spot for me was disabling the Intellipark since my old motherboard would not recognize SATA drives > 1TB. After I got that done it was easy. I do recommend you wait to clone the drive until after you have any cablecards installed.


I don't have cable, so I won't need those. I plan on using strictly OTA-HD. Is the main reason people don't just buy a 1TB E-SATA drive because they cost more? I don't really want to be doing any cloning and copying. I just want more space. Seems like the general consensus here is that the XL really isn't worth the money for essentially a better remote and THX certification.


----------



## TVCricket

Well I read up on these Premieres and looks like my choices are indeed internal (non-easy method) or e-SATA (1TB). I thought you could just plug any internal or external drive into the Premiere for more capacity. Thanks anyways.


----------



## NYHeel

TVCricket said:


> Well I read up on these Premieres and looks like my choices are indeed internal (non-easy method) or e-SATA (1TB). I thought you could just plug any internal or external drive into the Premiere for more capacity. Thanks anyways.


It's really easy to upgrade the internal drive. You just burn Comer's ISO file to a CD and get 2 SATA to USB cable/adapters if you don't have a desktop with SATA drives. I used these adapters and they've worked well: http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-SATA-...NGBU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1291739697&sr=8-8

Then you just stick the CD in the drive, power down the computer (you might need to check your bios to make sure that the CD drive comes before your internal hard drive in the boot-up order but it's probably already set up that way), connect the 2 drives to the 2 adapters (or internally) and start up the computer. Just follow Comer's fairly simple prompts from then on. Really not that bad.


----------



## jayn_j

TVCricket said:


> Well I read up on these Premieres and looks like my choices are indeed internal (non-easy method) or e-SATA (1TB). I thought you could just plug any internal or external drive into the Premiere for more capacity. Thanks anyways.


From reading these forums, I am leaning toward the internal solution due to reliability.

The e-sata drive is mounted as an extension of the main drive. This means that material is recorded on both drives each time. If either drive fails, all the stored shows are gone. You can't use the external disk as an archive, so what's the point.

E-sata has a habit of disconnecting itself, and I fear that recorded shows may be lost often. That's why I am going internal. That and nearly twice the storage with the internal solution.


----------



## richsadams

jayn_j said:


> From reading these forums, I am leaning toward the internal solution due to reliability.


Wise choice. :up:


----------



## TVCricket

NYHeel said:


> It's really easy to upgrade the internal drive. You just burn Comer's ISO file to a CD and get 2 SATA to USB cable/adapters if you don't have a desktop with SATA drives. I used these adapters and they've worked well: http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-SATA-...NGBU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1291739697&sr=8-8
> 
> Then you just stick the CD in the drive, power down the computer (you might need to check your bios to make sure that the CD drive comes before your internal hard drive in the boot-up order but it's probably already set up that way), connect the 2 drives to the 2 adapters (or internally) and start up the computer. Just follow Comer's fairly simple prompts from then on. Really not that bad.


This sounds way too complicated for me. I'm computer literate, but I don't feel comfortable doing that.


----------



## scoombs

TVCricket said:


> This sounds way too complicated for me. I'm computer literate, but I don't feel comfortable doing that.


Then you are NOT computer literate? Let me see if I can relay it even more clearly:

1.) Burn the ISO to a CD
2.) Attach the two SATA drives to a PC
3.) Boot the PC to the CD you just created, and follow the prompts


----------



## aaronwt

I thought the post was just missing a smiley. I thought it was a joke.


Isn't it?


----------



## scoombs

aaronwt said:


> I thought the post was just missing a smiley. I thought it was a joke.
> 
> Isn't it?


Mine or Cricket's?


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> I thought the post was just missing a smiley. I thought it was a joke.
> 
> Isn't it?


Sounded serious to me.


----------



## Hybrid

H8ff0000 said:


> I'm about to have my Premiere arrive in the mail any day now. I was wondering, could I make an image of the original drive? As in, a file or set of files backed up on my PC. I was thinking maybe doing an image of the original and then doing some heavy duty LZMA2 compression.


looks like you missed my post 



> if anyone is interested in saving a copy of the image, gzip compressed it a bit while not being awfully painful on the waiting for me "time" gave me 434 minute/7.2 Hrs of course YMMV, I tried lzip,bzip2 but it was going to take around 7 days with the fast compression setting
> 
> my image compressed to 239 GiB


even with plzip that uses all processor cores was going to take around "fast/best compression" 7/16 days to compress, I suggest you to image the virgin drive dont even power the tivo, since it will have most zeros and just gzip with best compression on the fly like I did, but hey if you got the time I say go for it, dont forget to save a checksum of your image.

for anybody FYI. dont pass the -A option to ddrescue, might of been just me but it screwed up my copy "tivo's linux permissions I could see all the internal tivo videos/animations on shows but I could not delete them very strange and funny" I putted my tivo on standby to unplug it and could never boot again I had to copy the drive again without the -A it didnt showed the internal videos anymore, honestly I think that it was only a bizarre once in a lifetime error.


----------



## TVCricket

So I was under the impression that there was no plug and play drives? Is the reason that people don't really mention sites like Weaknees or eBay is because of the cost?


----------



## richsadams

TVCricket said:


> So I was under the impression that there was no plug and play drives? Is the reason that people don't really mention sites like Weaknees or eBay is because of the cost?


That's pretty much it. TiVo enthusiasts tend to gravitate to DIY. There's absolutely nothing wrong with buying a pre-imaged drive and dropping it in. It's a very good solution for folks that don't want to fool around with a DIY project either because of skill sets or time...or both. The only caveat is that using a third-party drive will basically create a "new" TiVo so cable cards generally have to be re-paired by the cableco. If you use TiVo's new Season Pass Manager (prior to the upgrade) you can easily get those back in place.

Hope that helps and let us know how things go!


----------



## TVCricket

I won't ever need a cable card cause I'll be using this with my OTA antenna. Sounds like I may get one from dvr_dude.


----------



## richsadams

TVCricket said:


> I won't ever need a cable card cause I'll be using this with my OTA antenna. Sounds like I may get one from dvr_dude.


Good plan! :up:


----------



## TVCricket

Pulled the trigger on a Premiere and a 2TB HDD from dvr_dude. Should I get an extended warranty on the Premiere?


----------



## t1voproof

Opening the box to install the new hard drive will void the warranty. I think it's a waste money if you can replace a hard drive, the main point of failure.


----------



## TVCricket

So I take it that there's a seal sticker that you gotta break? Otherwise how would they know?


----------



## lessd

TVCricket said:


> So I take it that there's a seal sticker that you gotta break? Otherwise how would they know?


They can tell the size of the drive, some people have put the original back in and TiVo has honored the warranty but if the TiVo works with the original drive than it would not be a TiVo problem, most TiVos, if they do fail, will have a problem with the hard drive, much less than 1/2% fail for another reason that a TiVo problem. Other problems are cable signal and/or Internet problems etc.


----------



## richsadams

TVCricket said:


> Pulled the trigger on a Premiere and a 2TB HDD from dvr_dude. Should I get an extended warranty on the Premiere?


As Les others have mentioned opening TiVo can void the warranty. TiVo is aware of drive upgrades if they view the logs that TiVo compiles every time it communicates with the "Mother Ship". That said there is no sticker, etc. to indicate the box has been opened like the old days. If something should go south you can slip the original hard drive back in and get warranty service, providing you don't have a need to confess everything you've ever done to the TiVo CSR. AFAIK there are two posted cases of TiVo denying warranty service in the last eight years or so. As long as the box was returned intact; original hard drive, no internal damage, etc. no one else has had any issues getting a replacement.

IIRC the extended warranty is fairly inexpensive, something like $29 for three years? That's a pretty good deal. As others have also mentioned hard drives are the prime fail point by an overwhelming percentage but other things can go south including power supplies, fans, tuners, ports, various chips, etc. Once TiVo is out of the one-year warranty period they charge $149 for a replacement. I'm not big on extended warranties at all, but since TiVo's cost was so little I opted for a three-year extended warranty on our Premiere XL. I think SquareTrade charges $35 to $40 for the same thing. It's your call of course.

Either way, here is my strong recommendation: Get your TiVo completely set up initially and let it run for a good 30 days to be sure it's behaving properly. Generally if something is going to go wrong it will happen quickly. Once you're satisfied all is well, then go ahead with the upgrade.


----------



## TVCricket

Won't I then lose all my recordings from those 30 days?


----------



## richsadams

TVCricket said:


> Won't I then lose all my recordings from those 30 days?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8143577#post8143577


----------



## steve614

TVCricket said:


> Won't I then lose all my recordings from those 30 days?


Since your're going to be using OTA, you can network your Tivo and transfer the recordings you want to save to your computer, and then transfer them back to the Tivo after you install the DVR Dude hard drive.


----------



## kettledrum

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum. Since the WD20EURS is an AV dedicated drive the AAM default is already 128. Since the drive was manufactured after 09/15/10 you shouldn't have to tweak the Intellipark timeout setting. You should be good to go as is!





NYHeel said:


> It's really easy to upgrade the internal drive. You just burn Comer's ISO file to a CD and get 2 SATA to USB cable/adapters if you don't have a desktop with SATA drives. I used these adapters and they've worked well: http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-SATA-...NGBU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1291739697&sr=8-8
> 
> Then you just stick the CD in the drive, power down the computer (you might need to check your bios to make sure that the CD drive comes before your internal hard drive in the boot-up order but it's probably already set up that way), connect the 2 drives to the 2 adapters (or internally) and start up the computer. Just follow Comer's fairly simple prompts from then on. Really not that bad.


I'm looking at getting a WD20EARS to upgrade my premiere. Is there still a problem with running wdidle to disable intellipark when using SATA - USB adapters such as the ones listed above? But if the drive manufactured date is after 9/15/2010, then this is a moot point anyway?


----------



## richsadams

kettledrum said:


> I'm looking at getting a WD20EARS to upgrade my premiere. Is there still a problem with running wdidle to disable intellipark when using SATA - USB adapters such as the ones listed above? But if the drive manufactured date is after 9/15/2010, then this is a moot point anyway?


If the drive is manufactured after 09/15/10 it's very possible that there would be no need to adjust the Intellipark feature. However there was at least one user that ran into the issue with a drive manufactured mid-November, so there's no guarantee.

IF you need to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout it will need to be via a direct SATA connection; it won't work with a USB/SATA adapter.


----------



## mrsean

Idol said:


> I just finished upgrading my TP with a new WD20EVDS that I bought new on EBay for $95 & free shipping.


Thanks, Bro. I just bought one off the same dude for $90 + FS.


----------



## Idol

mrsean said:


> Thanks, Bro. I just bought one off the same dude for $90 + FS.


No problem, glad to help. I wish I had bid a little lower myself, $90 is a great deal on this hard drive.


----------



## RickNY

I have a WD AV-GP WD10EVVS that I installed in my TivoHD about a year ago.. I just ordered a Premiere and will receive it Tuesday. I'd like to put the original TivoHD drive back in the TivoHD, and use the WD10EVVS in the Premiere unit. I do not expect to be able to retain any recordings, settings, etc.

Three questions:

1) If I just pop the original TivoHD drive in the TivoHD now, will it then automatically go back and update itself to the current version of the software?

2) Once I am back running with the original TivoHD drive, how should I prep the WD10EVVS that was previously in the TivoHD for the Premiere?

3) Should I perform the drive upgrade on the Premiere before even firing it up for the first time by imaging the 320GB drive using Comer's CD?

Thanks,
Rick


----------



## richsadams

RickNY said:


> 1) If I just pop the original TivoHD drive in the TivoHD now, will it then automatically go back and update itself to the current version of the software?


 Yes, or If you want to receive the latest update ASAP you can try forcing a connection to TiVo to see if it will download. (It may take several connections before the update will appear.)

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages and settings
3. Settings
4. Phone and network
5. Connect to the TiVo service now

Once the download has finished and loaded look at the "Last Status" line on that screen or in System Information and if it says "Pending restart" instead of a date your new software will automatically install at 2 a.m. your time. Or you can reboot TiVo and it will install the update immediately. You will see these two screens during the reboot process when it does.

You can reboot TiVo via the menu screens:

1. TiVo Central
2. Messages & Setup
3. Restart or reset system
4. Restart the TiVo DVR

Or you can simply unplug it, wait about 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down and plug it back in.



RickNY said:


> 2) Once I am back running with the original TivoHD drive, how should I prep the WD10EVVS that was previously in the TivoHD for the Premiere?


 No prep. Your drive will be reformatted when you run the program.



RickNY said:


> 3) Should I perform the drive upgrade on the Premiere before even firing it up for the first time by imaging the 320GB drive using Comer's CD?


 IMO no. Based on years of posts about upgrades for all TiVo's it's best to be sure everything is working as it should first. Get your new TiVo fully set up and use it for 30 days or so then upgrade. The upgrade will keep your settings, etc.

Enjoy!


----------



## txporter

RickNY said:


> 1) If I just pop the original TivoHD drive in the TivoHD now, will it then automatically go back and update itself to the current version of the software?


I agree with what Rich mentioned above. Also, I _think*_ you can use winMFS to make a backup of your current drive and restore that to your original drive to keep all of your CC pairing info and retain the latest software.

_*there is the potential that you will not be able to restore to your original drive from the 1TB since it is smaller....not sure, it's been a while since I have done that._


----------



## SUOrangeman

Finally able to power up my neutered Premiere XL (was sold as-is without hard drive). dvr_dude imaged a WD20EURS I provided him for $50. I'm just now hitting the $200 investment mark for the entire experience (haven't activated service, though.) Not bad, considering everything was essentially done via eBay.

-SUO


----------



## richsadams

SUOrangeman said:


> Finally able to power up my neutered Premiere XL (was sold as-is without hard drive). dvr_dude imaged a WD20EURS I provided him for $50. I'm just now hitting the $200 investment mark for the entire experience (haven't activated service, though.) Not bad, considering everything was essentially done via eBay.
> 
> -SUO


TiVoStein.


----------



## moyekj

Last night for my Premiere I replaced factory drive with 1TB backup drive that I had imaged a couple of months ago from original drive using comer's excellent util. Booted up fine and of course listings were out of date so I did net connect. After a couple of hours the guide would show listings but nothing at all in To Do list. So I just left it overnight but this morning same problem even after a reboot and another net connect - guide showed listings for 12 days out but nothing in To Do list. Also search would return nothing at all for anything. I would also get warnings when bringing up To Do List there was no guide data even though there was. So I tried a guided setup which took a long, long time (2 hours or so most of it sitting waiting on the "Obtaining Info" screen) and that finally did the trick - though it reverted to HDUI for some reason even though I had SDUI selected before.
So is it normal to have to redo guided setup with a months old backup drive to get TiVo to start recording season passes & wishlists again?


----------



## kettledrum

richsadams said:


> If the drive is manufactured after 09/15/10 it's very possible that there would be no need to adjust the Intellipark feature. However there was at least one user that ran into the issue with a drive manufactured mid-November, so there's no guarantee.
> 
> IF you need to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout it will need to be via a direct SATA connection; it won't work with a USB/SATA adapter.


Thanks, Rich. Can you or anyone recommend a SATA PCI card? My desktop (Dell Dimension 4550) is so old it has no SATA ports. I see several cards for sale at Amazon, but they seem to have middling reviews, at best.

While it's true I may not need wdidle at all, it seems I'd be spending about the same $$ to get a PCI card versus two USB-SATA adapters, so I figured I might as well go for the card.


----------



## gamo62

richsadams said:


> If the drive is manufactured after 09/15/10 it's very possible that there would be no need to adjust the Intellipark feature. However there was at least one user that ran into the issue with a drive manufactured mid-November, so there's no guarantee.
> 
> IF you need to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout it will need to be via a direct SATA connection; it won't work with a USB/SATA adapter.


So, how do you know if you might be affected? What are the symptoms?


----------



## kettledrum

gamo62 said:


> So, how do you know if you might be affected? What are the symptoms?


The TiVo will get stuck on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen after a software update. You will then need to cold boot the TiVo. (pull the power plug).


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> So, how do you know if you might be affected? What are the symptoms?


If WD's Intellipark feature is an issue with a hard drive one of two things can happen. After upgrading TiVo may hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. In that case nothing can be done to resolve things except to run wdidle3.exe to extend the Intellipark timeout. Or TiVo may boot up properly but will not reboot from a menu restart. That's not as big a deal of course because as kettledrum mentions you can power cycle TiVo (pull the plug and plug it back in) to get it to boot up. However that also means that when TiVo pushes an update the unit will hang when it tries to reboot so some recordings could be missed until TiVo is power cycled.


----------



## richsadams

kettledrum said:


> Thanks, Rich. Can you or anyone recommend a SATA PCI card? My desktop (Dell Dimension 4550) is so old it has no SATA ports. I see several cards for sale at Amazon, but they seem to have middling reviews, at best.
> 
> While it's true I may not need wdidle at all, it seems I'd be spending about the same $$ to get a PCI card versus two USB-SATA adapters, so I figured I might as well go for the card.


Here's a PCI SATA Controller Card I'd consider:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132013

It has four internal SATA ports as well as 2 external eSATA ports which might come in handy later. It also comes with some SATA and Molex/SATA power cables as well.

I've never used that particular card, but I have some other Rosewill products and they have all been quite good.


----------



## bdspilot

thanks


----------



## bdspilot

bds


----------



## CamDLux

I purchased a 1.5TB drive from DVR_Dude on eBay. Great directions, and works perfectly! $109 shipped. I am pleased and I would recommend the service!


----------



## RickNY

I just wanted to say thanks to Comer for releasing a great product. I just purchased a Premier, and had bought a 1 TB WD AVVS drive for my TivoHD several months back. I imaged the virgin Premiere drive onto the 1 TB drive after moving everything on the HD back to the stock HD drive, then removing the format with WinMFS, and the activation and everything worked flawlessly. Thanks again!


----------



## TrackZ

Hello. I'm in the process of copying data from my stock Premiere HD to an extra Seagate LP 1.5TB that I had available. Everything is going well so far following the instructions on the rosswalker.co.uk guide.

One question I had though is that in the latter steps, they talk about setting your drive to use aggressive power management and maximum acoustic silencing. The guide is very Western Digital-centric though and I'm using a Seagate drive.

I'm just wondering if the hdparm command and the arguments it takes are a WD-only thing or if I can and should run them on the Seagate drive? Could I possibly do something bad to the drive if it is an unsupported command?

Thanks!


----------



## richsadams

TrackZ said:


> Hello. I'm in the process of copying data from my stock Premiere HD to an extra Seagate LP 1.5TB that I had available. Everything is going well so far following the instructions on the rosswalker.co.uk guide.
> 
> One question I had though is that in the latter steps, they talk about setting your drive to use aggressive power management and maximum acoustic silencing. The guide is very Western Digital-centric though and I'm using a Seagate drive.
> 
> I'm just wondering if the hdparm command and the arguments it takes are a WD-only thing or if I can and should run them on the Seagate drive? Could I possibly do something bad to the drive if it is an unsupported command?
> 
> Thanks!


Unfortunately you can't adjust the acoustics (AAM) on any Seagate drive so it is what it is. Not sure about adjusting "power management". If they are referring to adjusting the Intellipark feature, that only applies to Western Digital drives, nothing to do with Seagate or any other brand. So you can probably ignore both of those items.

I took a look at that UK site...didn't see anything about TiVo though I didn't look at everything. Here's the link to everything you need to upgrade your Premiere...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

Happy upgrading!


----------



## marspinball

Can't seem to find the instructions on how to upgrade a THD to 317 hours. I thought it was in this post.

Thanks for any help, Martin.


----------



## richsadams

marspinball said:


> Can't seem to find the instructions on how to upgrade a THD to 317 hours. I thought it was in this post.
> 
> Thanks for any help, Martin.


The 2TB upgrade instructions are for the TiVo Premiere but seem to be working successfully with TiVo HD's as well (although not for the original Series3).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

Happy upgrading!


----------



## jbell73

I think I know the answer to this already, but figured I would ask in case there have been any advancements in the area of re-upgrading the TiVo Premieres.

I had upgraded Premiere to 1TB a while back, and am now interested in going to 2TB. Is there any way to upgrade and maintain all of the recordings/settings? This is NOT an XL, so the 1TB already has been expanded from the factory 320GB drive.


----------



## marspinball

richsadams said:


> The 2TB upgrade instructions are for the TiVo Premiere but seem to be working successfully with TiVo HD's as well (although not for the original Series3).
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968
> 
> Happy upgrading!


With this method does the supersize option to make it 317 hours work on the THD??


----------



## richsadams

marspinball said:


> With this method does the supersize option to make it 317 hours work on the THD??


Yes.


----------



## moyekj

FYI, I got tired of the excessive noise of Hitachi Deskstar (see thread starting here for details) in my Premiere. Amazon has the WD10EVDS for $75 shipped which is not a great price but good enough to prompt me to get it as a replacement for the noisy Hitachi which I will re-purpose as PC drive for backups.
Question I have now is if I wanted to start from copy of 1 TB Hitachi to the 1 TB WD unless the WD turns out to be slightly larger than the Hitachi I won't be able to use comer's method right? Any suggestions on how to accomplish that if WD indeed turns out to be slightly smaller? (I do have the original 320GB Premiere drive which I could start from as a backup plan, but that would mean several season passes would have to be re-done).


----------



## richsadams

moyekj said:


> FYI, I got tired of the excessive noise of Hitachi Deskstar (see thread starting here for details) in my Premiere. Amazon has the WD10EVDS for $75 shipped which is not a great price but good enough to prompt me to get it as a replacement for the noisy Hitachi which I will re-purpose as PC drive for backups.
> Question I have now is if I wanted to start from copy of 1 TB Hitachi to the 1 TB WD unless the WD turns out to be slightly larger than the Hitachi I won't be able to use comer's method right? Any suggestions on how to accomplish that if WD indeed turns out to be slightly smaller? (I do have the original 320GB Premiere drive which I could start from as a backup plan, but that would mean several season passes would have to be re-done).


Hmmm...I guess I'd try it the normal way first and see what happens. Otherwise, couldn't you just use dd to clone it (or could there be a partition difference between the two drives? )

As far as the SP's, you can manage those on line now:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/gettivoanywhere/howto_seasonpass-manager.html


----------



## moyekj

richsadams said:


> Hmmm...I guess I'd try it the normal way first and see what happens. Otherwise, couldn't you just use dd to clone it (or could there be a partition difference between the two drives? )
> 
> As far as the SP's, you can manage those on line now:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/gettivoanywhere/howto_seasonpass-manager.html


 Thanks Rich. Yes the concern is the cloning part using dd (which comer's util uses) won't work if the destination drive is even slightly smaller than the source. i.e. Not all 1 TB drives give you exactly 1 TB of space - they differ by a few Kbytes usually.

Last time I tried online SP manager it didn't work very well if making more than 1 change at a time.


----------



## BlackBetty

Whats the best 2TB drive for upgrading a premier?


----------



## richsadams

BlackBetty said:


> Whats the best 2TB drive for upgrading a premier?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8263939#post8263939

In addition several folks are happy with the WD20EURS:

http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-WD20...G9V8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294019319&sr=8-1


----------



## aaronwt

What happened to DVR_Dude on ebay? I was looking for a 1.5TB Premiere upgrade drive for one of my TiVos but I did not see any more auctions listed. The last ones I saw were from last month for only $110 which was a cost I would have gone with.


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> What happened to DVR_Dude on ebay? I was looking for a 1.5TB Premiere upgrade drive for one of my TiVos but I did not see any more auctions listed. The last ones I saw were from last month for only $110 which was a cost I would have gone with.


No idea about dvrdude, but using Comer's 2TB DIY is about as simple as it gets.


----------



## Idol

Strange that DVR Dude has no active sales on Ebay. He had the 1Tb and the 2Tb Premiere drives for sale just a couple days ago. The 1.5 Tb was kind of rare for him, but did have a good price.


----------



## moyekj

moyekj said:


> Thanks Rich. Yes the concern is the cloning part using dd (which comer's util uses) won't work if the destination drive is even slightly smaller than the source. i.e. Not all 1 TB drives give you exactly 1 TB of space - they differ by a few Kbytes usually.
> 
> Last time I tried online SP manager it didn't work very well if making more than 1 change at a time.


 Got the WD yesterday and cloned it using comer's utility to copy disk -> disk (took 19 hours since I'm using USB-SATA adapters!) When I tried running the expand partition step it failed, likely because partition was already fully expanded. At any rate the WD is in the Premiere and appears to be functioning properly and *MUCH, MUCH* quieter than the Hitachi Deskstar - glad to get that noisy sucker out of the Premiere.


----------



## richsadams

moyekj said:


> Got the WD yesterday and cloned it using comer's utility to copy disk -> disk (took 19 hours since I'm using USB-SATA adapters!) When I tried running the expand partition step it failed, likely because partition was already fully expanded. At any rate the WD is in the Premiere and appears to be functioning properly and *MUCH, MUCH* quieter than the Hitachi Deskstar - glad to get that noisy sucker out of the Premiere.


Excellent! I saw someone had the Hitachi on sale today for about $60...it's really too bad it doesn't qualify for TiVo use anymore, but that's the way it goes.

Enjoy!


----------



## aaronwt

moyekj said:


> Got the WD yesterday and cloned it using comer's utility to copy disk -> disk (took 19 hours since I'm using USB-SATA adapters!) When I tried running the expand partition step it failed, likely because partition was already fully expanded. At any rate the WD is in the Premiere and appears to be functioning properly and *MUCH, MUCH* quieter than the Hitachi Deskstar - glad to get that noisy sucker out of the Premiere.


Did you enable the acoustic management on the Hitachi? I had several of them in my S3/TiVoHDs and with the Acoustic management set at 128 it was just as loud/quiet as the WD drives.


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> Did you enable the acoustic management on the Hitachi? I had several of them in my S3/TiVoHDs and with the Acoustic management set at 128 it was just as loud/quiet as the WD drives.


Although the earlier editions of the Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.c series of HDD's were very quiet out of the box and the AAM could be adjusted to make them even more quiet, the latest models are noisier and the AAM can no longer be adjusted (using hddscan or any version of the Hitachi Feature Tool, new or old). It looks like both events occurred with the drives manufactured after September 1 or possibly earlier.

The drives were a good option (I have a couple that have been flawless for more than a year) but there are a number of folks that ran into these issues recently and posted their experiences here...including moyekj. As mentioned earlier, it's too bad because they were a viable alternative.


----------



## aaronwt

Any idea why AM can no longer be adjusted?


----------



## richsadams

aaronwt said:


> Any idea why AM can no longer be adjusted?


None. Seems to have been a firmware change.


----------



## Dr_Diablo

just activated my Premiere

quwation is should I will the drive before adding an exteral drive?


----------



## richsadams

Dr_Diablo said:


> just activated my Premiere
> 
> quwation is should I will the drive before adding an exteral drive?


Your call I guess. It wouldn't make any difference either way unless the external drive failed for some reason. If that happened all of the recordings made from the day the external drive was connected would be lost.

You might want to consider upgrading your Premiere to a 2TB internal drive instead. The cost would be equal to or probably lower than buying a WD DVR Expander. Everything you need to know can be found here...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

As DIY upgrades go it's very simple and having just one drive reduces the number of failure points. Just a thought.


----------



## kettledrum

I'm having trouble getting HDDscan or the Hitachi feature tool to recognize my new drive (WD20EARS) to set AAM.

In HDDscan, my drive appears as a SCSI drive when I go to the features menu...the "IDE features" choice is greyed out and not selectable.

Using the Hitachi tool, the drive is not recognized at all.

I bought the Rosewill RC-212 PCI SATA card since my computer is ancient. Everything worked flawlessly using comer's instructions and then using wdidle3. The SATA drives on the new cards were recognized with no problems.

I've looked at the BIOS for a setting to change and nothing popped out at me as something to change. I also looked at the setup tool at startup for the SATA card, and there was nothing there for me to adjust. Any suggestions as for what to try next?

Edit: I found this on the HDDscan forum. It's an old post, but it doesn't look promising.

Oh, Rich, I should also note that my drive, which came from Dell, is dated in October 2010 (can't remember the exact date and the drive is in the computer right now) and it *did* indeed need wdidle applied. It showed as 8 seconds when I ran the tool.


----------



## supersnoop

kettledrum said:


> I'm having trouble getting HDDscan or the Hitachi feature tool to recognize my new drive (WD20EARS) to set AAM.
> 
> In HDDscan, my drive appears as a SCSI drive when I go to the features menu...the "IDE features" choice is greyed out and not selectable.
> 
> Using the Hitachi tool, the drive is not recognized at all.
> 
> I bought the Rosewill RC-212 PCI SATA card since my computer is ancient. Everything worked flawlessly using comer's instructions and then using wdidle3. The SATA drives on the new cards were recognized with no problems.
> 
> I've looked at the BIOS for a setting to change and nothing popped out at me as something to change. I also looked at the setup tool at startup for the SATA card, and there was nothing there for me to adjust. Any suggestions as for what to try next?
> 
> Edit: I found this on the HDDscan forum. It's an old post, but it doesn't look promising.
> 
> Oh, Rich, I should also note that my drive, which came from Dell, is dated in October 2010 (can't remember the exact date and the drive is in the computer right now) and it *did* indeed need wdidle applied. It showed as 8 seconds when I ran the tool.


Search for an older version of HDDScan. 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2 should all work. For some reason, I couldn't get 3.3 to work for me, either.


----------



## wesbc

kettledrum said:


> I'm having trouble getting HDDscan or the Hitachi feature tool to recognize my new drive (WD20EARS) to set AAM.
> 
> In HDDscan, my drive appears as a SCSI drive when I go to the features menu...the "IDE features" choice is greyed out and not selectable.


I had the same problem and it turns out to be my Thermaltake BlacX external dock and this is only for my WD drives. If I connect directly to the MB it sees it fine.

My issue is HDDscan shows the drive currently already set to 254 for AAM with 128 being recommended. It's currently showing AAM as disable and I'm not sure how to enable it. If I click on set for the AAM at 254 it states parameter is invalid.


----------



## richsadams

wesbc said:


> I had the same problem and it turns out to be my Thermaltake BlacX external dock and this is only for my WD drives. If I connect directly to the MB it sees it fine.
> 
> My issue is HDDscan shows the drive currently already set to 254 for AAM with 128 being recommended. It's currently showing AAM as disable and I'm not sure how to enable it. If I click on set for the AAM at 254 it states parameter is invalid.


Hmmm...I just ran the current version of hddscan using a Thermaltake BlackX dock connected to an 8 year-old Dell PC with a WD10EARS HDD and and it worked fine.

Keep in mind the program will only recognize one drive slot if it is a dual drive dock.

Here's how you adjust/enable AAM:


----------



## richsadams

kettledrum said:


> I'm having trouble getting HDDscan or the Hitachi feature tool to recognize my new drive (WD20EARS) to set AAM.
> 
> In HDDscan, my drive appears as a SCSI drive when I go to the features menu...the "IDE features" choice is greyed out and not selectable.
> 
> Using the Hitachi tool, the drive is not recognized at all.
> 
> I bought the Rosewill RC-212 PCI SATA card since my computer is ancient. Everything worked flawlessly using comer's instructions and then using wdidle3. The SATA drives on the new cards were recognized with no problems.
> 
> I've looked at the BIOS for a setting to change and nothing popped out at me as something to change. I also looked at the setup tool at startup for the SATA card, and there was nothing there for me to adjust. Any suggestions as for what to try next?
> 
> Edit: I found this on the HDDscan forum. It's an old post, but it doesn't look promising.
> 
> Oh, Rich, I should also note that my drive, which came from Dell, is dated in October 2010 (can't remember the exact date and the drive is in the computer right now) and it *did* indeed need wdidle applied. It showed as 8 seconds when I ran the tool.


I have no idea why your WD20EARS would appear as an SCSI drive.  I don't have one so unfortunately I can't test it. I know others have successfully adjusted the AAM on a WD20EARS, but I don't recall how they were attached, via a SATA port or using a USB adapter or drive dock (both of which will work w/hddscan BTW).

Regarding wdidle3.exe, did you try booting the drive up before you ran the program? Even though the newer drives still have the Intellipark timeout set to 8 seconds by default, apparently WD changed something else in the firmware so the timeout no longer needs to be adjusted.

I don't know why it would make a difference but you might try a USB adapter or dock to see if you can adjust the AAM.


----------



## kettledrum

supersnoop said:


> Search for an older version of HDDScan. 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2 should all work. For some reason, I couldn't get 3.3 to work for me, either.


Last night I did find 3.2 and downloaded it and tried it, to no avail. I have not sought out earlier versions yet.



richsadams said:


> I have no idea why your WD20EARS would appear as an SCSI drive.  I don't have one so unfortunately I can't test it. I know others have successfully adjusted the AAM on a WD20EARS, but I don't recall how they were attached, via a SATA port or using a USB adapter or drive dock (both of which will work w/hddscan BTW).
> 
> Regarding wdidle3.exe, did you try booting the drive up before you ran the program? Even though the newer drives still have the Intellipark timeout set to 8 seconds by default, apparently WD changed something else in the firmware so the timeout no longer needs to be adjusted.
> 
> I don't know why it would make a difference but you might try a USB adapter or dock to see if you can adjust the AAM.


I am fairly certain that it is not the WD20EARS drive that is causing the problem, it is the PCI SATA card that is the culprit. If I had a USB adapter or a dock I would try that, but unfortunately I don't.

Regarding Wdidle3.... The drive was never booted except for comer's CD, and as soon as I finished with the copy, expand, & supersize I shut down and immediately booted using the wdidle CD I created. I did not put the drive back into the TiVo to try it before running wdidle3. I hadn't heard that the newer drives still reported an 8 second timeout so I figured I might as well check the setting while I had it out of the TiVo. Good to know!


----------



## txporter

richsadams said:


> I have no idea why your WD20EARS would appear as an SCSI drive.  I don't have one so unfortunately I can't test it. I know others have successfully adjusted the AAM on a WD20EARS, but I don't recall how they were attached, via a SATA port or using a USB adapter or drive dock (both of which will work w/hddscan BTW).


I adjusted the AAM on my WD20EARS with a USB adapter, for what it's worth.


----------



## Bill McNeal

Has anyone lost a CableCard channel after upgrading their drive? It happened to me (I lost Comedy Central HD, even though SD comes through OK), and I'm wondering if it's related to if the CableCard sees different hardware, or if it's the cable company's fault.


----------



## gil sonnier

i tried to run wdidle3 on my computer and my computer wouldn't recognize my cd drive.
what are my options?
i have a premier and a wd20ears


----------



## richsadams

gil sonnier said:


> i tried to run wdidle3 on my computer and my computer wouldn't recognize my cd drive.
> what are my options?
> i have a premier and a wd20ears


See Section V, #14 here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160


----------



## mskvarenina

aaronwt said:


> What happened to DVR_Dude on ebay?


Interesting. That may explain why he hasn't answered my email. Last September I bought a 2TB WD20EARS from him. worked great for a while but last week my TiVo reverted back to the old interface (which I actually prefer because it's much faster) but then Friday I got the green screen of death. After letting it cycle through numerous restarts overnight I put back the original drive and everything is fine now.

So what should I do now? I wasn't sure if DVR_Dude would even replace the drive but if he's closed up shop, what's my next best alternative and should I resuse the drive elsewherer? I do have a NAS that needs a 2TB drive. In a RAID environment I could probably put it in and if it fails no big deal as I could just replac it then.


----------



## richsadams

mskvarenina said:


> Interesting. That may explain why he hasn't answered my email. Last September I bought a 2TB WD20EARS from him. worked great for a while but last week my TiVo reverted back to the old interface (which I actually prefer because it's much faster) but then Friday I got the green screen of death. After letting it cycle through numerous restarts overnight I put back the original drive and everything is fine now.
> 
> So what should I do now? I wasn't sure if DVR_Dude would even replace the drive but if he's closed up shop, what's my next best alternative and should I resuse the drive elsewherer? I do have a NAS that needs a 2TB drive. In a RAID environment I could probably put it in and if it fails no big deal as I could just replac it then.


Bummer. I'd run Western Digital's Lifeguard diagnostics to see if there's a drive problem (it sounds like there is). The "quick test" may give you an answer but the extended read/write/read test is about the only way to guarantee that things are good or not. The quick test/surface scan doesn't have any impact on the data, however the extended test writes all zeroes to the drive and of course that wipes out anything on it. However if you're considering repurposing the drive anyway that's not a big deal. (Be aware that you'll probably want to run the extended diagnostics overnight as it can take 12 hours or more to run.)

I've purchased things from ebay now and then but if it's critical that I have someone to contact for support I stick with known vendors, one's that will likely be there a year or ten from now. That's not to say anything bad about DVRDude, but there's always a risk an ebay seller will disappear even if they have perfect feedback. Hope he turns up to take care of you.

Going forward Comer's jfms DIY Premiere upgrade program is really a piece of cake if you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer. (Up to 2TB upgrades.) Weaknees.com or DVRUpgrade.com (one in the same company now) are good bets for pre-imaged drives like DVRDude was selling. They cost more but they've been in business for many years now.

FWIW your Western Digital drive has a three-year warranty. If it does have problems (bad sectors, etc.) you should still be able to get a replacement drive. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.

Hope that helps and best of luck!


----------



## mskvarenina

Thanks, I did find DVR DUDE still selling on eBay and his ads say that after 30 days he will work with you (me) on an RMA with WD then for up to a year re-image the drive for free. This sounds reasonable. In the past I did do my. Own hard drives using MFS Tools? But this time around there was something at the time (inn the September timeframe) that made it sound easier to just buy a pre-imaged drive. Since that time however it seems there are better tools out there for DIY'rs so maybe I'll just go to WD, get the drive replaced then use one of the tools you and others have recommended.


----------



## crabbon

Looks like weaknees is selling the 4TB Tivo Premiere's again:

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-premiere-hd-dvr-series4.php

I know they stopped for some time. I wonder if the problem they had has been resolved.


----------



## dshlyam

crabbon said:


> Looks like weaknees is selling the 4TB Tivo Premiere's again:
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-premiere-hd-dvr-series4.php
> 
> I know they stopped for some time. I wonder if the problem they had has been resolved.


Notice it's a single drive 4TB. I wonder if that's the key.


----------



## gamo62

dshlyam said:


> Notice it's a single drive 4TB. I wonder if that's the key.


I don't think they have 4TB drives out yet. The 3TB drives are relatively new.


----------



## dshlyam

gamo62 said:


> I don't think they have 4TB drives out yet. The 3TB drives are relatively new.


You're right. I didn't read past the *"...Single Drive Premiere! (4 TB)"*


----------



## richsadams

crabbon said:


> Looks like weaknees is selling the 4TB Tivo Premiere's again:
> 
> http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-premiere-hd-dvr-series4.php
> 
> I know they stopped for some time. I wonder if the problem they had has been resolved.


It would be interesting to see the partition structure of the internal drive. We'd just need to get our hands on one. Volunteers?



dshlyam said:


> Notice it's a single drive 4TB. I wonder if that's the key.


AFAIK no one is making a 4TB drive. Per the description:



> Includes a 2TB internal drive and a 2TB external drive.


----------



## orangeboy

Samsung announces: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storag...ows_Off_Prototype_of_4TB_Hard_Disk_Drive.html



> Samsung Electronics has demonstrated the world's first hard disk drive (HDD) with 4TB capacity and 1TB platters. The storage solution was shown off at CeBIT trade show last week, but it is unclear when Samsung is in position to ship it commercially.


----------



## richsadams

orangeboy said:


> Samsung announces: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storag...ows_Off_Prototype_of_4TB_Hard_Disk_Drive.html


Ha! Wonder if the final product will be as cool as the prototype...or if they'll "mainstream" it like the car companies. It'll probably end up being a 3200 RPM 3.6TB drive by the time it hits the market.


----------



## kmsarno

I have looked over this and other threads and am confused by apparently conflicting advice.

After having an S3 for several years, I just got a premier XL which I am upgrading internally to 2 TB.

The Verizon tech was just here this morning to deliver and pair the M-card. That's all working fine. However, following advice on this forum, I waited to start the drive upgrade process (with comer's CD) until AFTER my system was completely set up (channels, cable card, other settings, deleting "tour" junk etc.).

Now, I have just read a later comment on this thread that says that upgrading my disk will invalidate the cable card pairing by creating an effectively new TiVO, and I will have to have the cable guy back again? Is this true? Did I goof by waiting? Is the drill to replace the drive before the cable card installation, or after?

Thanks.


----------



## weaknees

kmsarno said:


> I have looked over this and other threads and am confused by apparently conflicting advice.
> 
> After having an S3 for several years, I just got a premier XL which I am upgrading internally to 2 TB.
> 
> The Verizon tech was just here this morning to deliver and pair the M-card. That's all working fine. However, following advice on this forum, I waited to start the drive upgrade process (with comer's CD) until AFTER my system was completely set up (channels, cable card, other settings, deleting "tour" junk etc.).
> 
> Now, I have just read a later comment on this thread that says that upgrading my disk will invalidate the cable card pairing by creating an effectively new TiVO, and I will have to have the cable guy back again? Is this true? Did I goof by waiting? Is the drill to replace the drive before the cable card installation, or after?
> 
> Thanks.


The settings that the CableCARD uses are on your current drive. If you copy that data over to the replacement, those setting go with it. So you should be fine.


----------



## kmsarno

weaknees said:


> The settings that the CableCARD uses are on your current drive. If you copy that data over to the replacement, those setting go with it. So you should be fine.


@Weaknees: great that's a relief. Thanks very much for your immediate and reassuring response.

--Ken S.


----------



## richsadams

kmsarno said:


> @Weaknees: great that's a relief. Thanks very much for your immediate and reassuring response.
> 
> --Ken S.


Plus AFAIK Verizon (FiOS) has not started pairing their cable cards to the DVR anyway, so no worries there either.

Happy upgrading!


----------



## titsataki

hi everybody,

I am considering doing a 2TB upgrade on my premiere.

I was looking for drives and this one seemed like a good condidate.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=Western_Digital_AV-GP-_-22-136-783-_-Product

what do you guys think?

Any other notable suggestions for drives?

Thanks

Nick


----------



## jonja

titsataki said:


> hi everybody,
> 
> I am considering doing a 2TB upgrade on my premiere.
> 
> I was looking for drives and this one seemed like a good condidate.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=Western_Digital_AV-GP-_-22-136-783-_-Product
> 
> what do you guys think?
> 
> Any other notable suggestions for drives?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Nick


I used this drive and it worked well. It is an AV drive and already tuned perfectly for DVRs. Been using it for 3 or 4 months now.


----------



## Stuxnet

That's a fine drive... FWIW you can get the WD20EARS for 74.99 with code EMCKDKA26 through June 15.


----------



## titsataki

Stuxnet said:


> That's a fine drive... FWIW you can get the WD20EARS for 74.99 with code EMCKDKA26 through June 15.


Do I have to adjust the noise level and the park setting?
Does it really matter it is not an AV version?

thanks for your help.

Regards

Nick


----------



## Stuxnet

titsataki said:


> Do I have to adjust the noise level and the park setting?
> Does it really matter it is not an AV version?
> 
> thanks for your help.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Nick


The "noise level" was preset to the recommended level (128) on my WD20EARS, so no adjustment was necessary. [EDIT: I stand corrected ("senior moment"). The preset value is 254, so I changed mine to 128.] The "intellipark" setting doesn't need adjusting unless the drive "hangs" during a soft reboot. I was too lazy to consider having to pull the drive out if that happened, so I made the adjustment before I installed the drive.

You don't need an AV version... EARS and EADS are both recommended by many here.


----------



## richsadams

Stuxnet said:


> The "noise level" was preset to the recommended level (128) on my WD20EARS, so no adjustment was necessary.


Interesting. The default setting for WD's EARS drives is 254...which is fairly quiet so adjusting it to 128 (the default of their dedicated A/V drives) may not be necessary.


----------



## Stuxnet

richsadams said:


> Interesting. The default setting for WD's EARS drives is 254...which is fairly quiet so adjusting it to 128 (the default of their dedicated A/V drives) may not be necessary.


Rich, I just picked up a second EARS... after I finish the diagnostic run, I'll open up HDDScan and see what it tells me... I hadn't planned on resetting it since it's going inside a PC.

EDIT: I was curious so I stopped the diagnostic... *Rich is correct*. The default setting is *254*. So... I must have changed the EARS I put in my Premiere... just don't recall doing so...


----------



## titsataki

yes checked as well. I decided to go ahead and set AAM to 128.
I do not think it matters much for me as it is in a cabinet behind glass doors.
I also went ahead and disabled and intelipark feature.

All is good.

Nick

PS: FYI the premier drive was a WD AV drive. (I am sure is well known)


----------



## richsadams

Stuxnet said:


> Rich, I just picked up a second EARS... after I finish the diagnostic run, I'll open up HDDScan and see what it tells me... I hadn't planned on resetting it since it's going inside a PC.
> 
> EDIT: I was curious so I stopped the diagnostic... *Rich is correct*. The default setting is *254*. So... I must have changed the EARS I put in my Premiere... just don't recall doing so...


Ha, after sleep walking through all of the steps it's very easy to lose some of those bread crumbs we drop along the way.


----------



## richsadams

titsataki said:


> PS: FYI the premier drive was a WD AV drive. (I am sure is well known)


Indeed...TiVo Premiere OEM hard drives:

TiVo Premiere: WD320AVVS

TiVo Premiere XL: WD10EVVS


----------



## peasofcrap

so i purchased this drive without doing enough reserach and i think i have to soft reboot problem.

is there some adjustment i can do to the drive to keep this from happening? i could not find any info on this drive for tivos.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004CCS266


----------



## danjw1

Has anyone tried the Western Digital 3TB EURS drive, WD30EURS?


----------



## retiredqwest

danjw1 said:


> Has anyone tried the Western Digital 3TB EURS drive, WD30EURS?


Tivo doesn't recognize ANY 3TB HDD. 2TB max.


----------



## richsadams

peasofcrap said:


> so i purchased this drive without doing enough reserach and i think i have to soft reboot problem.
> 
> is there some adjustment i can do to the drive to keep this from happening? i could not find any info on this drive for tivos.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004CCS266


Seagate drives cannot be adjusted for anything. WD drives suffer from boot issues (sometimes) which can be resolved by making an adjustment to the Intellipark setting. If you're having a boot problem it's something different.

Let us know exactly what's happening and we can try to sort it out.


----------



## peasofcrap

richsadams said:


> Seagate drives cannot be adjusted for anything. WD drives suffer from boot issues (sometimes) which can be resolved by making an adjustment to the Intellipark setting. If you're having a boot problem it's something different.
> 
> Let us know exactly what's happening and we can try to sort it out.


About four times in the past month I find the tivo flashing red and blue every so often. When i turn on the TV, the tivo is not working.

i have to pull the plug and reset. it sometimes sits on the welcome screen or it boots normally with no problems.

i read on these boards that if i try a soft reboot from the menu and it hangs, its the Intellipark setting but i guess that is only on WDs.

i guess i have a faulty drive?

thanks for the help all!


----------



## Stuxnet

Did you run the Seagate HDD diagnostics before you installed? You can download a bootable diagnostic cd here.

You'll need to pull the drive and connect it to a SATA port on your pc, then boot up on the cd.


----------



## peasofcrap

Stuxnet said:


> Did you run the Seagate HDD diagnostics before you installed? You can download a bootable diagnostic cd here.
> 
> You'll need to pull the drive and connect it to a SATA port on your pc, then boot up on the cd.


Ok noob question. That cd will tell me if the drive is good or not?


----------



## unitron

peasofcrap said:


> Ok noob question. That cd will tell me if the drive is good or not?


That's what it's supposed to do, and possibly fix fixable problems, after running a long test program.

Never connect a TiVo drive to a GigaByte brand motherboard.

Google "gigabyte host protected area" to learn why.


----------



## barcafan1990

Hello everyone, I'm interested in upgrading my Premiere Hard Drive to a 1 TB drive. My sister and I live together and share one TiVo. Between our season passes - mostly heres - the HD is filling up and deleting our shows before we can watch them.

I'm sure the directions are in these forums, but I've spend almost an hour now perusing without finding anything.

Can someone please direct me to either a link or a thread that has directions to upgrade?
From what I understand I need some kind of software to clone the original HD to the new one, right?
I'm looking at the following HD on amazon: 
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...N95K/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1308885196&sr=8-5

Will that work with the Premiere?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## unitron

barcafan1990 said:


> Hello everyone, I'm interested in upgrading my Premiere Hard Drive to a 1 TB drive. My sister and I live together and share one TiVo. Between our season passes - mostly heres - the HD is filling up and deleting our shows before we can watch them.
> 
> I'm sure the directions are in these forums, but I've spend almost an hour now perusing without finding anything.
> 
> Can someone please direct me to either a link or a thread that has directions to upgrade?
> From what I understand I need some kind of software to clone the original HD to the new one, right?
> I'm looking at the following HD on amazon:
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...N95K/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1308885196&sr=8-5
> 
> Will that work with the Premiere?
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Two possible solutions to your problem other than replacing the internal drive are

1. Adding an external drive (has to be the particular Western Digital model(s) that are TiVo approved).

2. Getting a big, like 1 or 2 TB, internal drive, making it all one big NTFS partition, and putting it into a computer on which you run the free version of TiVo Desktop, and backing up shows over your home network from the TiVo to the computer until you have time to watch them, and then copying them back to the TiVo, or watching them on the computer.

I don't have a TiVo new enough to try the external drive trick on, but I lean toward agreeing with others that it doubles your chances of losing all of your recordings from hard drive failure.

The nice thing about option 2 is that if the TiVo conks out you can copy the backed up shows to any other TiVo on your account, Series 2 or newer.

As for the question which you actually asked, about the WD10EARS, I think others here have used that drive successfully, but you might as well go with a 2TB drive if you're going to be replacing the internal drive.

And don't do the work on a GigaByte brand motherboard.

The *Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ*

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

started out discussing Series 3 drive replacement, but sort of spread out to be a general "which drive in which TiVo" thread and contains much info and wisdom.

However, the Premiere uses somewhat different software than the Series 1, 2, and 3 for drive upgrading, so the

*Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions - with all-in-one jmfs Live CD*

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

are a must-read, although it probably wouldn't hurt to read the

*Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS*

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

as well, bearing in mind that it's for the Series 3 platform and not the Series 4 (Premiere).

Before there was JMFS, there was MFS.

It wouldn't be a terrible idea to download the image file for the MFS Live cd v1.4 from mfslive.org and burn a copy just to have on hand.

You could even pick up a cheap (or free) used Series 2 on Craigslist to practice on with the MFS Live cd.


----------



## Stuxnet

barcafan1990 said:


> Hello everyone, I'm interested in upgrading my Premiere Hard Drive to a 1 TB drive


Use a 2TB drive. You can get a compatible HDD for less than $80 if you'll DIY.


----------



## barcafan1990

@unitron thanks for the quick reply and the links. I forgot to mention I only have a macbook and was wondering if the copy/cloning software would work...which I read in those threads that it does, but, my Mac only has two USB ports and I'm looking at these SATA/USB adapters:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10315&cs_id=1031501&p_id=5189&seq=1&format=2

Unfortunately, they each require two USB ports totaling 4 needed to do the hard drive copying. So I'll be using a friends PC with more USB ports or hopping on a PC in the campus computer lab.

@Stuxnet I really want that 2GB drive but with the cost of the adapters (mentioned above) that I also need to buy I'll have reached my budget. I think we'll be fine with more than twice the space we have now in buying the 1TB drive. I was looking at used 2TB drives but I'm skeptical buying Hard Drives used.


----------



## unitron

barcafan1990 said:


> @unitron thanks for the quick reply and the links. I forgot to mention I only have a macbook and was wondering if the copy/cloning software would work...which I read in those threads that it does, but, my Mac only has two USB ports and I'm looking at these SATA/USB adapters:
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10315&cs_id=1031501&p_id=5189&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Unfortunately, they each require two USB ports totaling 4 needed to do the hard drive copying. So I'll be using a friends PC with more USB ports or hopping on a PC in the campus computer lab.
> 
> @Stuxnet I really want that 2GB drive but with the cost of the adapters (mentioned above) that I also need to buy I'll have reached my budget. I think we'll be fine with more than twice the space we have now in buying the 1TB drive. I was looking at used 2TB drives but I'm skeptical buying Hard Drives used.


That wasn't a quick reply, I took some time and put some thought into it, which is something I fear you aren't going to do enough of in your eagerness to do the upgrade. Which is how people wind up with Premieres in which the original hard drive no longer works, either.

I'm guessing those adapters need 2 USB plugs in order to draw enough power to run the drive and the electronics, but the ad you linked to says they're for 2.5 inch drives, i.e., laptop drives. You'll be dealing with 3.5 inch "desktop" drives, which draw even more power.

The thought of doing this on a college computer lab computer really, really scares me, partially because I used to work as a computer lab monitor at a college computer lab.

If your friend's computer is a "desktop" model, and *does not have a GigaByte brand motherboard*, better to open it up and disconnect all drives except the cd/dvd to boot from, and hook up the TiVo drive and its intended replacement to the board's SATA ports and power supply plugs.

If that's the kind of thing which you've never done before, you need to learn how on something a little more "expendable".

One place where you're proceeding with the proper caution, though, used hard drives are a spin of the roulette wheel at best.


----------



## myblubu

Got another Premiere and looking at upgrading the drive to 2TB. I used the WD20EARS last time and adusted the AAM and intellipark and everything worked fine.

Was just looking at newegg and the WD20EARS is $79.99 but they have a WD20EARX for $10 more. the EARX is 6.0 GB/s vs 3.0 GB/s for the EARS. Will this make a difference in the Tivo???

Just wondering if it's worth the 10 extra bucks and if the EARX is a good option for a Tivo upgrade?


----------



## unitron

myblubu said:


> ...Was just looking at newegg and the WD20EARS is $79.99 but they have a WD20EARX for $10 more. the EARX is 6.0 GB/s vs 3.0 GB/s for the EARS. Will this make a difference in the Tivo???
> ...


Yes, it will make the upgrade $10 more expensive.

Check the specs on the original drive. It's probably only 1.5 GB/s and only 8 or 16 MB of cache.

I know nothing about the EARX, but it seems the DOA rate on the EARS is increasing lately.

You could use an EADS, if you're lucky enoough to find one, or an EACS. I think they're both out of production now, so maybe they'd be from before WD's QC started to slip.


----------



## myblubu

unitron said:


> Yes, it will make the upgrade $10 more expensive.


LOL - I read this 2-3 times before I got it! LOL

Do you know if the 6 GB/s will make a difference in performance in the Tivo?


----------



## unitron

myblubu said:


> ...
> Do you know if the 6 GB/s will make a difference in performance in the Tivo?


I think I'll leave that low hanging fruit for richsadams, I've got to get back to getting ready for my weekend with Irene.


----------



## richsadams

myblubu said:


> LOL - I read this 2-3 times before I got it! LOL
> 
> Do you know if the 6 GB/s will make a difference in performance in the Tivo?


The long answer is "no". (We can be a bunch of wise guys here, get used to it.  )

Don't hesitate to use the forum's search function...you'd be surprised what you might find! 

Here's what I found out about the EARX when someone else asked about it...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8672565#post8672565

FWIW here are the specs for the TiVo Series4 Premiere and Premiere XL OEM HDD's:

TiVo Premiere = WD3200AVVS SATA3, 8MB Cache

TiVo Premiere XL = WD10EVVS SATA3, 8MB Cache

Happy upgrading!


----------



## richsadams

unitron said:


> I think I'll leave that low hanging fruit for richsadams, I've got to get back to getting ready for my weekend with Irene.


Leaving town I hope! Best of luck with Irene...I hear she's not happy and when momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy!


----------



## Dr_Diablo

Irene's been downgraded to a Cat 1 hurricane an has stalled just west of Hatterus winds gusting to 105 mph


----------



## richsadams

Dr_Diablo said:


> Irene's been downgraded to a Cat 1 hurricane an has stalled just west of Hatterus winds gusting to 105 mph


Still no fun for those in the path of her wrath I'd suppose. Best of luck to all of our right coast friends!!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Leaving town I hope! Best of luck with Irene...I hear she's not happy and when momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy!


We're far enough from the coast and the river and in a brick home that survived Fran in '96, so stayed put. Came through reasonably well, and am currently grateful not to be hearing the constant sound of wind and generators.


----------



## husky55

We survived LOL !!! Lost power, but we expected it. Our backyard is looking like a war zone, branches, leaves, trees etc... but no windows flying off so we are very grateful. We are close to the long Island Sound, on the CT shore.

Tivo and Comcast are both out as of this moment. Thank God we got our power back. !!!


----------



## unitron

husky55 said:


> We survived LOL !!! Lost power, but we expected it. Our backyard is looking like a war zone, branches, leaves, trees etc... but no windows flying off so we are very grateful. We are close to the long Island Sound, on the CT shore.
> 
> Tivo and Comcast are both out as of this moment. Thank God we got our power back. !!!


If you've got power you can turn on the TV and catch up on all the stuff backlogged on your TiVo.

There's an actual Irene thread where hurricane talk is on-topic

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=474782

so I'll just say glad to hear you came out lightly, compared to others, and as for gratitude for power restoration, I feel ya, brother!


----------



## richsadams

Yes indeed, glad to hear that most everyone came out of the storm with their lives and most of their possessions!


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> Yes indeed, glad to hear that most everyone came out of the storm with their lives and most of their possessions!


Now if only the last few shreds of my sanity had survived.

Also lost, temper and patience.

But seriously, we (our house) got off light, it was just dark and hot and humid for couple of days.


----------



## lessd

unitron said:


> Now if only the last few shreds of my sanity had survived.
> 
> Also lost, temper and patience.
> 
> But seriously, we (our house) got off light, it was just dark and hot and humid for couple of days.


AH! the beauty of a automatic whole home natural gas generator, except everybody within a street of me lost power, *but I did not *so my great generator never had to run, I think the power co. knows i have this big generator and makes sure I never have any power outages.


----------



## L David Matheny

lessd said:


> AH! the beauty of a automatic whole home natural gas generator, except everybody within a street of me lost power, *but I did not *so my great generator never had to run, I think the power co. knows i have this big generator and makes sure I never have any power outages.


That's called Murphy Insurance (putting Murphy's Law to work for you). A good friend of mine bought a nice snowblower several years ago, and I don't think we've had a significant snow since.


----------



## dkraft

L David Matheny said:


> That's called Murphy Insurance (putting Murphy's Law to work for you). A good friend of mine bought a nice snowblower several years ago, and I don't think we've had a significant snow since.


Storm Shutters back in 2006, haven't used them once. Told the guy that sold them to me "I hope this is the biggest waste of money I will ever spend". So far it is.


----------



## husky55

A little update from Madison, CT.

On August 27, 2011, the night that Irene was supposed to reach Connecticut the next day Sunday, the now downgraded tropical storm hit us and we lost power, telephone ( land line and att cell), and of course comcast and tivo. In short everything was gone. Slowly however, we got things back to normal and we are really the lucky ones. There are many along the CT shore line who lost their homes and other things, some even lost their lives. As of today, some 30-40,000 people still do not have power, mostly in eastern CT.

So after a week, we got comcast back. Since we have a Comcast set top box we can see that all our channels are back. We still did not get our Tivos back. I had assumed that Tivo network was down. But after a chat with a Tivo CR, we were told that Tivo network was up and something was wrong with our Tivo boxes.

So what are the chances that 2 Tivos boxes with APC XS 1500 backup battery and surge protection would go bad at the same time? Never in a million years, yeah right. It happened to us.

Both Tivos ( 1 HD 1 Premiere) showed STARTING UP... A FEW MINUTES MORE and then BLACK SCREEN...

The Tivo CR told me that Tivo will send a replacement (refurbished) for my units probably at some costs if I had wanted them to do so. I know I have to call Comcast for service since comcast CR in CT cannot pair cable cards if I had chosen that option.

But being a member of this community for many years, I thought of a DIY project. Most probably it's a HD problem, then possibly a power supply problem. I had bought a Premier for parts when they are selling them for $99 the cost of a PS or a couple remote control.

I had saved the original Tivo HD so I copied that HD into the WD 20EARS taken from the Premiere which did not boot (stopped at a few minutes more..) but the copy was unsuccessful. ( drive was ruined by Irene, I assumed). So I had a Seagate 2 TB 5900 RPM I just got from Ewiz. Repeated the copy procedure again. Copy Successful. But Same old problem, seagate drive ends up with black screen.

At this point I thought of PS problem. Not enough voltage or ampere to boot up the HD. But I remembered something RICHADAMS said some time ago, something along the line he would use WD or Hitachi drives and not Seagate HD for Tivo.

So before I go charging into replacing the PS, I thought for the last time I will try again with another 2 TB Hitachi drive bought for my Synology 211J NAS. The Synology NAS people like Hitachi and Samsung HD.

So last night, after the 4th or 5th try, we finally succeeded. Everything is now back to normal. I have eliminated the details involved because they are really tedious!!!

So thanks again to richadams and this forum for your help and knowledge!!!


----------



## richsadams

Yikes! What a nightmare...upon a granted not so important nightmare, but a hassle non the less! 

Glad things are back to normal (more or less)! :up:


----------



## husky55

richsadams said:


> Yikes! What a nightmare...upon a granted not so important nightmare, but a hassle non the less!
> 
> Glad things are back to normal (more or less)! :up:


You didn't know that you saved me, did you? LOL

Still don't know why the brand new Seagate 2 TB 5900 rpm did not boot. Copy, expand, supersize, all successful.


----------



## Dr_Diablo

waitin for a 3 TB drive for Tivo


----------



## lessd

husky55 said:


> You didn't know that you saved me, did you? LOL
> 
> Still don't know why the brand new Seagate 2 TB 5900 rpm did not boot. Copy, expand, supersize, all successful.


In my experience some drives that run at less than 7200RPM will not boot all the time, some work great but at this point I would only use a 7200RPM drive because I don't understand the boot problem that some drives with 5200RPM and 5900RPM have with booting. All TiVo OEM drives are 7200RPM and I would assume if a 5200RPM drive would work why would TiVo itself not use such a drive, even if it only saved TiVo $1 /drive as there would be less heat etc.


----------



## dwit

lessd said:


> In my experience some drives that run at less than 7200RPM will not boot all the time, some work great but at this point I would only use a 7200RPM drive because I don't understand the boot problem that some drives with 5200RPM and 5900RPM have with booting. *All TiVo OEM drives are 7200RPM* and I would assume if a 5200RPM drive would work why would TiVo itself not use such a drive, even if it only saved TiVo $1 /drive as there would be less heat etc.


I'm pretty sure the Premiere ships with the WD3200AVVS, a Western Digital* 5400rpm* Green Power drive. I would assume the XL ships with a similar but larger capacity drive.

Being that these are the only units that Tivo is selling right now, don't see how they are going to fit in with your premise?


----------



## husky55

dwit said:


> I'm pretty sure the Premiere ships with the WD3200AVVS, a Western Digital* 5400rpm* Green Power drive. I would assume the XL ships with a similar but larger capacity drive.
> 
> Being that these are the only units that Tivo is selling right now, don't see how they are going to fit in with your premise?


I just looked at my Premiere HD OEM used for back up and you are right on both counts, GREEN WD 320AVVS.

I do have a Hitachi 2 TB 7200 RPM which runs substantially hotter than the Hitachi 2 TB 5900. I had both of then running in the Synology 211J for testing and can monitor their temps. I hesitate to use the 7200 drive because of the heat they generate.

I looked at the Seagate again, at both 12V and 5V, the required currents (ampere) are less than the currents specified in the WD 320 Premiere OEM. So power supply was not the problem for the Seagate not booting.


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> ...All TiVo OEM drives are 7200RPM <snip>


 Hi Les! TiVo has been using WD A/V-GP Intellipower (5200RPM variable) hard drives since the Series3 TiVo HDXL. Many of us (including yours truly) have been successfully using WD GP (as well as other "green") hard drives in Series2 and Series3 TiVo's for many, many years. The only issue that's arisen is the on/off "challenge" WD's Intellipark feature presents for initial and/or soft reboots.

There are a number of folks also using Seagate, Samsung and Hitachi drives (both 7200 RPM as well as variable - 5200RPM+) drives in upgraded TiVo's.

I can't speak to the reason the OP's particular Seagate drive refused to boot up. I had a Sammy that did the same thing once. No idea why but AFAIK it had nothing to do with the drive's speed.

FWIW here's the lineup of OEM drives from the Original Series3 forward:

The original Series3 = WD2500BS 2MB Cache

TiVo HD = WD1600AVBS 2MB Cache

TiVo HDXL = WD10EVVS 8MB Cache

TiVo Premiere = WD3200AVVS 8MB Cache

TiVo Premiere XL = WD10EVVS 8MB Cache


----------



## lessd

richsadams said:


> Hi Les! TiVo has been using WD A/V-GP Intellipower (5200RPM variable) hard drives since the Series3 TiVo HDXL. Many of us (including yours truly) have been successfully using WD GP (as well as other "green") hard drives in Series2 and Series3 TiVo's for many, many years. The only issue that's arisen is the on/off "challenge" WD's Intellipark feature presents for initial and/or soft reboots.
> 
> There are a number of folks also using Seagate, Samsung and Hitachi drives (both 7200 RPM as well as variable - 5200RPM+) drives in upgraded TiVo's.
> 
> I can't speak to the reason the OP's particular Seagate drive refused to boot up. I had a Sammy that did the same thing once. No idea why but AFAIK it had nothing to do with the drive's speed.
> 
> FWIW here's the lineup of OEM drives from the Original Series3 forward:
> 
> The original Series3 = WD2500BS 2MB Cache
> 
> TiVo HD = WD1600AVBS 2MB Cache
> 
> TiVo HDXL = WD10EVVS 8MB Cache
> 
> TiVo Premiere = WD3200AVVS 8MB Cache
> 
> TiVo Premiere XL = WD10EVVS 8MB Cache


I was referring to the TiVo-HD and i was not using the WD green drives as this was over 2 years ago, I would find that a 5200RPM drive would boot fine in one TiVo-HD and not in another, I had 4 or 5 problems and decided to use only 7200RPM drives at the time and never had the boot problem again. I am not doing upgrades anymore in volume so today a 5200RPM drive may well work in TiVo, I just don't want to take any chances for the small price difference and the low number of upgrades I am now doing for friends.


----------



## richsadams

lessd said:


> I was referring to the TiVo-HD and i was not using the WD green drives as this was over 2 years ago, I would find that a 5200RPM drive would boot fine in one TiVo-HD and not in another, I had 4 or 5 problems and decided to use only 7200RPM drives at the time and never had the boot problem again. I am not doing upgrades anymore in volume so today a 5200RPM drive may well work in TiVo, I just don't want to take any chances for the small price difference and the low number of upgrades I am now doing for friends.


I recall those discussions. I think it ultimately ended up being the Intellipark issue before we really became aware of it. No one, not even TiVo knew about it until the early TiVo HDXL's suddenly started hanging on a reboot after an update. It took TiVo almost 60 days to issue an update to correct that. That issue is still alive and well (even if slightly sporadic with different drives at different times).


----------



## husky55

I tried again on a SECOND Premiere, but this drive would not boot either. Drive is brand new, just got it last week.

Seagate ST2000DL003 2TB SATA3 5900rpm 64MB NCQ Hard Drive.

Drive seems to work fine. Copy, expand, supersize all completed successfully. I did a quick smart test on it and it passed.

The Hitachi 2 TB 5900 rpm is working fine in the Premiere. I just bought the new WD 20EARS from the egg. Did not test it but copy the Tivo OEM on it and everything seems to be fine.

HD 2T|WD WD20EARS 64M wdidle3 applied.


----------



## camera2000

I'm going to maxi-mod 2 x 1.5TB my new-to-me Woot Series 3 at the get go and put lifetime on it. and I thinks that even if weakness is first, it won't be long before someone reverse-engineers one of their drives and makes the solution public.


----------



## richsadams

camera2000 said:


> I'm going to maxi-mod 2 x 1.5TB my new-to-me Woot Series 3 at the get go <snip>


I don't know about anyone else, but I would certainly be interested in hearing exactly how you plan on doing that.


----------



## unitron

richsadams said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but I would certainly be interested in hearing exactly how you plan on doing that.


Nice to see you're still lurking

Now I'll leave you alone.


----------



## mattack

woot series 3? Guess that was an old deal?


----------



## dkraft

richsadams said:


> I recall those discussions. I think it ultimately ended up being the Intellipark issue before we really became aware of it. No one, not even TiVo knew about it until the early TiVo HDXL's suddenly started hanging on a reboot after an update. It took TiVo almost 60 days to issue an update to correct that. That issue is still alive and well (even if slightly sporadic with different drives at different times).


Getting ready to upgrade with the WD20EARS. Do I need to turn off Intellipark or something to avoid this problem? If so does the JMFS have the tools for that?


----------



## steve614

dkraft said:


> Getting ready to upgrade with the WD20EARS. Do I need to turn off Intellipark or something to avoid this problem? If so does the JMFS have the tools for that?


Yes, you need to adjust the intellipark feature. It is separate from the JMFS software.

You need to download this and burn it to a CD.
Boot from the above CD - hit "Enter" within 15 seconds to boot to DOS and then run "wdidle3 /S300".

A message should indicate "Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 300 seconds (5 minutes)." That means you were successful.


----------



## dwit

dkraft said:


> Getting ready to upgrade with the WD20EARS. Do I need to turn off Intellipark or something to avoid this problem? If so does the JMFS have the tools for that?


Yes, it's probably wise to just disable intellipark, while you still have the drive connected to the computer, after upgrading. Otherwise, if you install the drive in the Tivo, you may very well find that you have to remove the drive again.


----------



## unitron

dwit said:


> Yes, it's probably wise to just disable intellipark, while you still have the drive connected to the computer, after upgrading. Otherwise, if you install the drive in the Tivo, you may very well find that you have to remove the drive again.


I'd say get the WD diagnostics cd iso, run the long test, then run wdidle3, then do the upgrade.


----------



## dkraft

unitron said:


> I'd say get the WD diagnostics cd iso, run the long test, then run wdidle3, then do the upgrade.


That's my plan!


----------



## dkraft

dwit said:


> Yes, it's probably wise to just disable intellipark, while you still have the drive connected to the computer, after upgrading. Otherwise, if you install the drive in the Tivo, you may very well find that you have to remove the drive again.


Thanks


----------



## dkraft

steve614 said:


> Yes, you need to adjust the intellipark feature. It is separate from the JMFS software.
> 
> You need to download this and burn it to a CD.
> Boot from the above CD - hit "Enter" within 15 seconds to boot to DOS and then run "wdidle3 /S300".
> 
> A message should indicate "Idle3 Timer is enabled and set to 300 seconds (5 minutes)." That means you were successful.


Ran into a problem. Booted from the ISO. Was give a C:> command, typed in the above command, returned and error with Copywrite, Model, Serial Number and a comment stating "This is not a WD disk drive".

Based on the returned information wdidle3 is trying to preform the command on the internal drive. I have the WD connected to a SATA cable. So i have both my Boot Drive and the WD connected.

Not a geek. Is there a way I can change the drive wdidle3 is trying to preform the command on?

Any ideas?


----------



## steve614

Maybe try disconnecting all your hard drives except the one you want to run wdidle on?


----------



## dkraft

steve614 said:


> Maybe try disconnecting all your hard drives except the one you want to run wdidle on?


 I unplugged the boot drive and only had the 2TB WD plugged into a SATA connection. BIOS shows the 2TB WD. The wdidle3 now gives an error no hard driver or drivers not installed.


----------



## dwit

dkraft said:


> I unplugged the boot drive and only had the 2TB WD plugged into a SATA connection. BIOS shows the 2TB WD. The wdidle3 now gives an error no hard driver or drivers not installed.


Maybe try switching the connection to another port on the motherboard.

If you have not seen it, here is a video of the process in a Premiere upgrade. the wdidle step is right at the start of the "part II" video. Doesn't really help with your immediate issue now, but when you get it to recognize the drive, maybe then it can help:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514

Another wdidle video:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqY5zlCXQmU&feature=related[/media]

Good luck.


----------



## dkraft

dwit said:


> Maybe try switching the connection to another port on the motherboard.
> 
> If you have not seen it, here is a video of the process in a Premiere upgrade. the wdidle step is right at the start of the "part II" video. Doesn't really help with your immediate issue now, but when you get it to recognize the drive, maybe then it can help:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514
> 
> Another wdidle video:
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqY5zlCXQmU&feature=related[/media]
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks, I will look into your information.

Maybe wdidle3 does not find the HD because it is not supported? Check out this page about what wdidle3 is compatible with.

http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=609&sid=113

I moved on today and am doing the cloning of the drive. I can always loop back around and do the wdidle3 later once I get it sorted out.


----------



## dkraft

dwit said:


> Maybe try switching the connection to another port on the motherboard.
> 
> If you have not seen it, here is a video of the process in a Premiere upgrade. the wdidle step is right at the start of the "part II" video. Doesn't really help with your immediate issue now, but when you get it to recognize the drive, maybe then it can help:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514
> 
> Another wdidle video:
> 
> [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqY5zlCXQmU&feature=related[/media]
> 
> Good luck.


I had no luck at all. I tried disconnecting the internal hard drive. I tried using a SATA USB docking station. No luck. Tried different computer using the SATA USB docking station still now luck.

I got done doing the cloning and install the WD 2TB HD into the Tivo and it booted just fine.

What exactly is going to happen without the wdidle3 command set on the HD? Will my kids be deformed :0

I have read everything from it is ok with the latest drives manufactured after a certain date to the HD parking head only has 300,000 parks over the life of the HD.

Need a drink on this project.

Thanks


----------



## dwit

dkraft said:


> I had no luck at all. I tried disconnecting the internal hard drive. I tried using a SATA USB docking station. No luck. Tried different computer using the SATA USB docking station still now luck.
> 
> I got done doing the cloning and install the WD 2TB HD into the Tivo and it booted just fine.
> 
> What exactly is going to happen without the wdidle3 command set on the HD? Will my kids be deformed :0
> 
> I have read everything from it is ok with the latest drives manufactured after a certain date to the HD parking head only has 300,000 parks over the life of the HD.
> 
> Need a drink on this project.
> 
> Thanks


Hopefully you are able to do this with no docks, adapters, etc. involved. Reportedly, the bare drive must be directly connected to the motherboard with an sata cable. However, somewhere here, I believe I read of someone using an esata port, but have no idea what the total set up was.

If you do not disable with wdidle3, and you're lucky, the Tivo will work totally as it should. Otherwise, if not disabled, whenever the Tivo needs to do a "soft restart"(via the menu, service update, etc), it will just "hang" at the "Welcome, Powering Up" screen(or it could be the "Just a Few Minutes More screen). Regardless which of those powering up screens it hangs on, the Tivo will fail to boot up completely.

I kind of get the feeling that the factory default for the WD "Green" drives is "enabled", and needs to be disabled for the Tivo.

If you cannot disable the idle timer, you can test it anyway. Just install it in the Tivo, and after it boots completely, go to the "Setting Menu", navigate to, and select "Restart the Tivo". If, during the restart, the Tivo hangs in powering up, the idle timer needs to be disabled.

I have not read back to double check what drive you are using, but hope you realize that all of the wdidle3 stuff is *only for WD "Green" drives*.

Good luck


----------



## unitron

dwit said:


> Hopefully you are able to do this with no docks, adapters, etc. involved. Reportedly, the bare drive must be directly connected to the motherboard with an sata cable. However, somewhere here, I believe I read of someone using an esata port, but have no idea what the total set up was.
> 
> If you do not disable with wdidle3, and you're lucky, the Tivo will work totally as it should. Otherwise, if not disabled, whenever the Tivo needs to do a "soft restart"(via the menu, service update, etc), it will just "hang" at the "Welcome, Powering Up" screen(or it could be the "Just a Few Minutes More screen). Regardless which of those powering up screens it hangs on, the Tivo will fail to boot up completely.
> 
> I kind of get the feeling that the factory default for the WD "Green" drives is "enabled", and needs to be disabled for the Tivo.
> 
> If you cannot disable the idle timer, you can test it anyway. Just install it in the Tivo, and after it boots completely, go to the "Setting Menu", navigate to, and select "Restart the Tivo". If, during the restart, the Tivo hangs in powering up, the idle timer needs to be disabled.
> 
> I have not read back to double check what drive you are using, but hope you realize that all of the wdidle3 stuff is *only for WD "Green" drives*.
> 
> Good luck


I ran it successfully on a WD10EACS connected to an IDE header via a JMicron chipset (or maybe a Marvell chipset) SATA to IDE adapter and it worked fine, so apparently as long as it's hooked to the motherboard without having to go through the USB bus...

Might be something to do with which interrupts get used.


----------



## dkraft

I went into HELP-Restart Tivo and restarted about 4 times. Tivo has booted fine all 4 times. Everything is working fine without the wdidle3 step.

I have 14.8c and the WD20EARS.

I ran the extended test on the HD. Cloned the HD. Installed HD into Tivo.
It's all good for now. 

Thanks for the help!


----------



## dkraft

unitron said:


> I ran it successfully on a WD10EACS connected to an IDE header via a JMicron chipset (or maybe a Marvell chipset) SATA to IDE adapter and it worked fine, so apparently as long as it's hooked to the motherboard without having to go through the USB bus...
> 
> Might be something to do with which interrupts get used.


My problem was I only have a laptop with an external SATA connector. I had removed the internal drive hoping that would have help the external SATA connection work with wdidle3, but it did not.

At this point the HD is working fine with out the wdidle3. If I begin to have issues I think I will try to hunt down a cable that will attach to the laptop's mother board HD connection.


----------



## tlrowley

Thanks for such an informative thread - I am now running a Premiere with 317 hours of HD recording capacity. 

I do have a quick question, though. I upgraded with a WD20EURS. I did not run wdidle3. I tested with a soft reboot, and everything was fine, does this mean I don't have to worry about skipping the wdidle3 step?


----------



## dwit

tlrowley said:


> Thanks for such an informative thread - I am now running a Premiere with 317 hours of HD recording capacity.
> 
> I do have a quick question, though. I upgraded with a WD20EURS. I did not run wdidle3. I tested with a soft reboot, and everything was fine, does this mean I don't have to worry about skipping the wdidle3 step?


Theoretically, yes. You should not have to worry about it.

Maybe try it once or twice more. Make sure you are doing a soft reboot, and not a hard reboot(where the power is cut and restored, typically by pulling the power cord).


----------



## tlrowley

Thanks, I'll try it a couple more times. I'm definitely doing a soft reboot.


----------



## dkraft

Now my new 2TB sounds like it is doing Morse Code. Tick, Tick, Tick.


----------



## richsadams

dkraft said:


> Now my new 2TB sounds like it is doing Morse Code. Tick, Tick, Tick.


Failing Hard Drive Sounds


----------



## unitron

dkraft said:


> Now my new 2TB sounds like it is doing Morse Code. Tick, Tick, Tick.


Probably has a lot more to do with WD's QC on the 20EARS these days than with whether you ran wdidle or not.

Hope there wasn't anything ireplaceable on it.


----------



## dkraft

unitron said:


> Probably has a lot more to do with WD's QC on the 20EARS these days than with whether you ran wdidle or not.
> 
> Hope there wasn't anything irreplaceable on it.


4 days and it still is working fine. Recording, playback etc.

I ran the extended test on the drive before I cloned it. Everything was fine.

The sound is real low. It is not that grinding noise. My desktop backup drive makes far more noise than the Tivo HD.


----------



## aretoo

I am in the process of upgrading my Tivo to WD 2Tb EURS drive. I used wdidle and disabled the intellipark feature. I also used WD tools to to a quick scan, full scan of the new drive with no problems. I hooked them up to my computer and ran Comers program on them. My problem is it is only rescuing about 93MB of data and I get a single error about 237GB in size. It then goes into trimming the error block. It has been running overnight with no change in the trimming function so i can not look at the error log. Does anyone have any ideas what could be the problem?


----------



## gweempose

Hey guys! Been away for a while. Wow, do I feel out of the loop! Today is the first time I am even hearing about the new Elite. Anyway, the original drive in one of my Premiere XL's is starting to go, and I want to swap it with a new 2TB drive. What's the general consensus on the best brand/model drive to use for the upgrade?


----------



## jfh3

gweempose said:


> Hey guys! Been away for a while. Wow, do I feel out of the loop! Today is the first time I am even hearing about the new Elite. Anyway, the original drive in one of my Premiere XL's is starting to go, and I want to swap it with a new 2TB drive. What's the general consensus on the best brand/model drive to use for the upgrade?


Most use WD green drives. An AV model will save a step over using a non- AV model, but a TiVo won't use any other AV specific features, so just buy based on price


----------



## husky55

aretoo said:


> I am in the process of upgrading my Tivo to WD 2Tb EURS drive. I used wdidle and disabled the intellipark feature. I also used WD tools to to a quick scan, full scan of the new drive with no problems. I hooked them up to my computer and ran Comers program on them. My problem is it is only rescuing about 93MB of data and I get a single error about 237GB in size. It then goes into trimming the error block. It has been running overnight with no change in the trimming function so i can not look at the error log. Does anyone have any ideas what could be the problem?


The WD20EURS is an AV drive so it should work. I would check the pc connections ( assuming sata ). I usually disconnect all other drives including windows boot drive and have only the source and target drive connected.

Your conner's program might be corrupted. Check the file integrity. It should work perfectly unless your source drive is defective. Use the original drive as a source drive might help.


----------



## ducker

I have my new 2TB drive just waiting to be installed. I've started my premiere on 9/9/2011 - I know a lot of people say wait 2 months before upgrading, but I don't know if I can wait that long when a 1 hour HD show sucks up 5% of the storage space!!!

What things would other upgraders suggest to test prior to upgrading the drive to insure that they do in fact work properly.

I've been using this as my primary DVR - so been doing a lot of recording and browsing; some youtube usage, and really that's about it.

If I must I'll wait until November to do the HD upgrade, but I'd really prefer to do it around 9/8 or before!!


----------



## husky55

I never waited before upgrading so I really don't even know the reason for the wait.

I have upgraded both my HD and Premiere to various 1 and 2 TB of various manufacturers with no problem. I did lose my Tivo during Irene and had to replace all my HD.


----------



## ducker

husky55 said:


> I never waited before upgrading so I really don't even know the reason for the wait.
> 
> I have upgraded both my HD and Premiere to various 1 and 2 TB of various manufacturers with no problem. I did lose my Tivo during Irene and had to replace all my HD.


now that sucks.

the reason for the wait, if there are any issues with my unit where it may have to go back for service for example.


----------



## husky55

If you have any problem with your unit then just put the OEM HD back in and send it back for repair. But if your unit is OK to begin with then what's the problem? There is nothing that I know of that voids your warranty and/or shows that your unit was opened.

PS I do not want to rush you to upgrade. Please wait if it's more comfortable for you. I only said what I did.


----------



## ducker

husky55 said:


> If you have any problem with your unit then just put the OEM HD back in and send it back for repair. But if your unit is OK to begin with then what's the problem? There is nothing that I know of that voids your warranty and/or shows that your unit was opened.
> 
> PS I do not want to rush you to upgrade. Please wait if it's more comfortable for you. I only said what I did.


Na... I'm itching to do it. Hell, I bought the hard drive even before I got the unit, so I've been dieing to do the upgrade/swap. And now that I see % capacity, and I see it drop by 5% after I delete a single HD 1 hour show, it makes me miss my 300+ hours on my older S2.

We tend to record a bunch of stuff, some of which we get to much later then others. That large hard drive lets us easily wait on different shows for a later time.

Maybe this weekend then 

Thx


----------



## L David Matheny

ducker said:


> I have my new 2TB drive just waiting to be installed. I've started my premiere on 9/9/2011 - I know a lot of people say wait 2 months before upgrading, but I don't know if I can wait that long when a 1 hour HD show sucks up 5% of the storage space!!!
> 
> What things would other upgraders suggest to test prior to upgrading the drive to insure that they do in fact work properly.
> 
> I've been using this as my primary DVR - so been doing a lot of recording and browsing; some youtube usage, and really that's about it.
> 
> If I must I'll wait until November to do the HD upgrade, but I'd really prefer to do it around 9/8 or before!!


The wait is really just to insure against "infant mortality" in the electronics (or the original HDD, I guess). You've waited long enough for that. If your cable card pairings work and your software is up-to-date and you've recorded two shows at once sometimes (to insure that both tuners work), you've probably tested most of the hardware by now. It would be a good idea to run the long diagnostic test on your new 2TB drive before installing it, just to make sure it's 100 pct OK.


----------



## ducker

L David Matheny said:


> The wait is really just to insure against "infant mortality" in the electronics (or the original HDD, I guess). You've waited long enough for that. If your cable card pairings work and your software is up-to-date and you've recorded two shows at once sometimes (to insure that both tuners work), you've probably tested most of the hardware by now. It would be a good idea to run the long diagnostic test on your new 2TB drive before installing it, just to make sure it's 100 pct OK.


ugh to the long diagnostic. Yea. I can, I'll have to look in to what I'll need to do to do it (I'm sure it's in this thread, or another one)

Thanks -


----------



## steve614

husky55 said:


> There is nothing that I know of that voids your warranty and/or shows that your unit was opened.


Technically, opening the box voids the warranty. TiVo can tell in their logs when someone upgrades their hard drive and since you have to open the box to change the hard drive...
There have been at least 2 reported cases here where TiVo has refused warranty work because of upgraded hard drives.
If you have problems, you may be able to get away with putting the OEM drive back in before you call TiVo, but odds are they will still know if they look in the logs.

I would at least wait to do the upgrade after the 90 day full exchange warranty is over.


----------



## ducker

steve614 said:


> Technically, opening the box voids the warranty. TiVo can tell in their logs when someone upgrades their hard drive and since you have to open the box to change the hard drive...
> There have been at least 2 reported cases here where TiVo has refused warranty work because of upgraded hard drives.
> If you have problems, you may be able to get away with putting the OEM drive back in before you call TiVo, but odds are they will still know if they look in the logs.
> 
> I would at least wait to do the upgrade after the 90 day full exchange warranty is over.


and that's kinda why I was thinking of waiting. The cases where I've seen them refuse was because the member openly discussed the fact that his unit was modified with the rep on the phone.

It's like a don't ask don't tell policy with them it seems.


----------



## Resist

So what's the verdict on which 2TB drive to upgrade the Premiere with? If it's already been mentioned I missed it, sorry.


----------



## Agent86

Lots of drives can be used, I've used WD EARS drives with much success. Just don't forget to use wdidle to disable the head parking.

This thread is your friend .


----------



## Resist

Agent86 said:


> This thread is your friend .


This thread is very long and I've looked through most of it, but I'm not seeing any one drive stick out more than others. There must be one that works out better, is quiet and uses less energy.


----------



## avediswolf

If I get one of these WD 2TB Green (EARS) drives, but do the copy without changing the wdidle3 intellipark setting, will it cause any other issues other than just the soft reboot hanging?

I do not have a PC where I can hook the drive up directly to a mainboard to change the setting. 

Or is there a different drive thats recommended that doesn't have the issue?

Thanks!


----------



## jaredmwright

I just recently purchased a Hitachi Deskstar 2TB Coolspin 5400 RPM drive w/3 year warranty at my local Fry's for $69.99. It works great, no issues and you don't have to mess with wdidle settings.


----------



## Resist

I think I'd prefer to buy a new pre Tivo formatted drive on ebay. I had good luck in the past buying on ebay from a forum member, when I upgraded to a 1TB drive for my Series 3 drive.

I'm leaning towards the WD20EURS or WD20EVDS.


----------



## VideoGrabber

ducker said:


> I know a lot of people say wait 2 months before upgrading, but I don't know if I can wait that long when a 1 hour HD show sucks up 5% of the storage space!!!


I'm not sure exactly what you're seeing, but there are no 1 hour HD shows that use 5% of the storage space on a Premiere.  Maybe a 2-hour show, but not 1.

TiVo claims "_up to 45 hours of HD programming_", but if you're like most people, where their cable co. compresses and statmuxes their content, or their OTA broadcasters have multicasted the crap out of their bandwidth allocation, you'll only be using 5-6 GB/hour for HD, for most (or less).

If you're reaching 7 GB/hour, then you've got some pretty darn good source material. My local FOX-HD, which is 720p like all FOX content, drops as low as 4 GB/hour sometimes (since they're running 2 other subchannels).

And when I had cable, it averaged 5 GB/hour (and was still dropping), though years ago (when they were doing straight passthrough) I did get 7 GB/hr from quite a few HD channels, and 8 GB/hour from the HDNet channels. But that's ancient history.

From my experience, most people will get 50+ hours of HD on a stock Premiere. FAR from the 20 hours you were indicating with your 5% observation.


----------



## tonestert

I'm getting ready to upgrade my drive in a few minutes with a WD20EARS drive and keep seeing widdle mentioned in this thread. What is exactly is widdle ? Is there anything I need to do ? I'm going to follow this Thread but I did not see anything about widdle. 
Thanks


----------



## Idol

I used this thread, along with Comer's instructions, when I upgraded my hard drive:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8165515#post8165515

It was a good step by step guide, including opening the TIVO box, using wdidle, etc.


----------



## unitron

tonestert said:


> I'm getting ready to upgrade my drive in a few minutes with a WD20EARS drive and keep seeing widdle mentioned in this thread. What is exactly is widdle ? Is there anything I need to do ? I'm going to follow this Thread but I did not see anything about widdle.
> Thanks


Search this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

for "intellipark"

Basically the Western Digital Caviar Green drives have a feature that parks the heads after a period of drive inactivity. A rather short period.

The TiVo does a soft re-boot (power not disconnected). During that time it's not writing to or reading from the drive. The drive senses that lack of activity and parks the heads. The TiVo gets to the point in the boot process where it goes to read the hard drive and transfer the operating system into memory, just like any other computer. The drive isn't able to respond as quickly as the TiVo is expecting it to, because there's nothing in the TiVo's firmware about "tap the drive on the shoulder and wait for it to wake up". So the TiVo stalls at the welcome screen, which is on the firmware chip, not the drive, or keeps rebooting, which creates a period of drive inactivity that puts the drive back to sleep.

The cure is to disable intellipark or increase the time period of inactivity before it decides to go to sleep. If you increase that time period enough that's pretty much the same as disabling it.

wdidle (western digital idle) is the utility for adjusting that time period.


----------



## tonestert

thanks Idol. I wish I would have seen that before. And thanks Uniton for the info. 

Can I run the widdle program after I have copied and expanded my new drive ?


----------



## unitron

tonestert said:


> thanks Idol. I wish I would have seen that before. And thanks Uniton for the info.
> 
> Can I run the widdle program after I have copied and expanded my new drive ?


wdidle (or wdidle3) makes changes to the drive's firmware, not to the data written to the platters, so you can run it anytime you please.


----------



## KeithB

So, here's a dumb question. How do most of you run the wdidle3 utility, since it's DOS-based? I tried the Ultimate Boot CD's version of FreeDOS, but cannot access the USB stick where the wdidle3.exe file resides.


----------



## unitron

KeithB said:


> So, here's a dumb question. How do most of you run the wdidle3 utility, since it's DOS-based? I tried the Ultimate Boot CD's version of FreeDOS, but cannot access the USB stick where the wdidle3.exe file resides.


The version I downloaded was a bootable cd iso.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7652412#post7652412


----------



## KeithB

*Many thanks, kind sir.* I've copied the original TiVo WD 320GB A/V drive to a new WD15EARS 1.5TB Advanced Format _(yeah, I know)_ drive, expanded and supersized it. Running WDIDLE3 is the last thing I have to do before re-installing the new drive. Your post saved me tons of time searching, or worse yet, attempting to build a bootable DOS .iso file with WDIDLE3.EXE included in it.

Note: WDIDLE3 won't work with USB-connected drives. I'm going to have to resurrect an older desktop system to try this, and it wasn't particularly cooperating last night. Today I wound up using a laptop with USB/SATA adapters to run Comer's JMFS utilities to copy, expand, and supersize the drive. Fun times...


----------



## tonestert

yep thanks guys everything went smoothly no more worrying about space at least for the time being.


----------



## marcomm

I have three Premieres' and am looking to play...What would you do?
I have % series II w/lifetime in the house and really hate to see these go to waste.


----------



## unitron

marcomm said:


> I have three Premieres' and am looking to play...What would you do?
> I have % series II w/lifetime in the house and really hate to see these go to waste.


Are you talking about taking the hard drive out of a Premiere and putting into a Series 2?

I'd recommend against it. Never re-use a TiVo drive. Take it out, make a backup image from it, and then put it on the shelf as a known quantity to test the TiVo with in the future if it develops problems.

Each model TiVo has software specific to that model on its drive, and you can't just take a drive out of one model and drop it into a different model.

See the adapter thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=416883

to use a 1TB SATA drive in a Series 1 or 2.

You do know that S2s use IDE/PATA drives and S3 and S4 (Premieres) TiVos use SATA drives, right?


----------



## KeithB

Finally got the motherboard configuration worked out, and used that ISO to boot MS-DOS and run WDIDLE3. Put the drive back in, connected it all, and fired it up. It took longer after the initial splash screen before the "few minutes more" screen came up, and a lot longer after that before the TiVo animation started. I figured it was re-checking all the new disk space, doing whatever cleanup/shakeout the TiVo TCL needs to do. Everything was retained, everything worked properly, and I've been enjoying an afternoon of shows originally captured onto the old drive.

Many thanks to Comer for developing JMFS with Slax and Java, it made the work as easy as it could possibly be. *Huge thanks* to unitron :up: for pointing me to an MS-DOS image with wdidle3 built in.


----------



## unitron

KeithB said:


> Finally got the motherboard configuration worked out, and used that ISO to boot MS-DOS and run WDIDLE3. Put the drive back in, connected it all, and fired it up. It took longer after the initial splash screen before the "few minutes more" screen came up, and a lot longer after that before the TiVo animation started. I figured it was re-checking all the new disk space, doing whatever cleanup/shakeout the TiVo TCL needs to do. Everything was retained, everything worked properly, and I've been enjoying an afternoon of shows originally captured onto the old drive.
> 
> Many thanks to Comer for developing JMFS with Slax and Java, it made the work as easy as it could possibly be. *Huge thanks* to unitron :up: for pointing me to an MS-DOS image with wdidle3 built in.


Glad to hear it all worked out.


----------



## Resist

I have found two ebay sellers that I am considering buying my drive upgrades from, DVRDude and stephan790. The thing is that DVRDude wants $170 and stephan790 wants $98.88 for the same tivo formatted drives, at least I think they are the same drives. Both have great feedback. Any suggestions?


----------



## ducker

VideoGrabber said:


> I'm not sure exactly what you're seeing, but there are no 1 hour HD shows that use 5% of the storage space on a Premiere.  Maybe a 2-hour show, but not 1.
> 
> TiVo claims "_up to 45 hours of HD programming_", but if you're like most people, where their cable co. compresses and statmuxes their content, or their OTA broadcasters have multicasted the crap out of their bandwidth allocation, you'll only be using 5-6 GB/hour for HD, for most (or less).
> 
> If you're reaching 7 GB/hour, then you've got some pretty darn good source material. My local FOX-HD, which is 720p like all FOX content, drops as low as 4 GB/hour sometimes (since they're running 2 other subchannels).
> 
> And when I had cable, it averaged 5 GB/hour (and was still dropping), though years ago (when they were doing straight passthrough) I did get 7 GB/hr from quite a few HD channels, and 8 GB/hour from the HDNet channels. But that's ancient history.
> 
> From my experience, most people will get 50+ hours of HD on a stock Premiere. FAR from the 20 hours you were indicating with your 5% observation.


I've watched again more closely. And not all 1 hour HD shows are equal - I guess that's outlined in your message above. I forget the network it was on, if I come across it again I'll mention it. Do any networks broadcast in 1080i?


----------



## dkraft

KeithB said:


> Finally got the motherboard configuration worked out, and used that ISO to boot MS-DOS and run WDIDLE3. Put the drive back in, connected it all, and fired it up. It took longer after the initial splash screen before the "few minutes more" screen came up, and a lot longer after that before the TiVo animation started. I figured it was re-checking all the new disk space, doing whatever cleanup/shakeout the TiVo TCL needs to do. Everything was retained, everything worked properly, and I've been enjoying an afternoon of shows originally captured onto the old drive.
> 
> Many thanks to Comer for developing JMFS with Slax and Java, it made the work as easy as it could possibly be. *Huge thanks* to unitron :up: for pointing me to an MS-DOS image with wdidle3 built in.


I was unable to run the widdle3 on my WD20EARS because of access to a SATA connection. I have had no problems at all. Tested many times by rebooting system from Help, restart.

I had a SATA external connection on a Laptop but you need the HD connected directly to the mother board. Widdle3 would not work with out the direct connection.


----------



## whompus60

ducker said:


> I've watched again more closely. And not all 1 hour HD shows are equal - I guess that's outlined in your message above. I forget the network it was on, if I come across it again I'll mention it. Do any networks broadcast in 1080i?


Reading you guys post's made me want to know also. I get 38 hd channels. I just checked them all, and 35 of them are showing 1080i, The 3 that are showing 720p are fox, fox news, and fox business. I can not say for sure fox only shows 720p like the other poster, but tend to think he/she may be right with all 3 fox channels showing 720p at the same time.



dkraft said:


> I was unable to run the widdle3 on my WD20EARS because of access to a SATA connection. I have had no problems at all. Tested many times by rebooting system from Help, restart.
> 
> I had a SATA external connection on a Laptop but you need the HD connected directly to the mother board. Widdle3 would not work with out the direct connection.


I don't remember running widdle3 either. Doesn't mean I didn't because I followed the guide I found here to the letter. If it was in the guide then I did and just can't remember it. Nonetheless I have had no problems what so ever for the 6 months I have had 2 premieres.


----------



## GmanTiVo

Resist said:


> I have found two ebay sellers that I am considering buying my drive upgrades from, DVRDude and stephan790. The thing is that DVRDude wants $170 and stephan790 wants $98.88 for the same tivo formatted drives, at least I think they are the same drives. Both have great feedback. Any suggestions?


I have recently purchased a 2TB Western Digital AV-GP "green drive" (Model WD20EURS) for my S3 from Stephan and aside the overnight long "clear & delete everything" the install was a piece of cake and the price was, much less than DVRDude's (who also has a great reputation btw).


----------



## Resist

GmanTiVo said:


> aside the overnight long "clear & delete everything" the install was a piece of cake


Why would you have to "clear & delete"?


----------



## steve614

Resist said:


> Why would you have to "clear & delete"?


Most likely the seller used a software image from another Tivo.


----------



## Guy Kuo

Had a spectacular drive failure of my original Premiere XL drive when it was pulled for a drive upgrade. I have never seen anything this severe previously. Despite an absolutely jar free, powered down removal, the drive failed to spin up properly. It just buzzed. Then when it did spin up on the 4th power up attempt, a sickening high pitched scratching sound was heard. (Obvious head crash noise).

On postmortem, I found all four drive heads dislodged from their mounting armatures and massive scratching of all four platter surfaces.

It looks like the WD drive did NOT park its heads during power down. Then had head stiction and when it did break free, all four drive heads were ripped loose.

Until now the (original) drive had been working perfectly 24/7 for over a year.


----------



## johnd01

Has anyone made a 3TB drive work?


----------



## jfh3

Resist said:


> Why would you have to "clear & delete"?


Because the drive needs to be "married" with the Tivo. Unless the source drive was from YOUR Tivo, the C&D process is required to marry the new drive after you have completed the drive swap.


----------



## lonewoolf47

jfh3 said:


> Because the drive needs to be "married" with the Tivo. Unless the source drive was from YOUR Tivo, the C&D process is required to marry the new drive after you have completed the drive swap.


So how do remarry the drive?


----------



## jfh3

lonewoolf47 said:


> So how do remarry the drive?


Run "Clear and Delete".


----------



## lonewoolf47

Did and done that! Now cannot receive any comcast premium channels. Called comcast and they did what they do to no avail. So now they will have to send a truck roll. The last truck roll was because they said my new cable card was bad. Tech came and without touching my TiVo just made a phone call and guess what! The tech said you have to know who do call.


----------



## whompus60

jfh3 said:


> Because the drive needs to be "married" with the Tivo. Unless the source drive was from YOUR Tivo, the C&D process is required to marry the new drive after you have completed the drive swap.


Wait... So you are saying the source drive does not have to be the disk drive from the same tivo unit being upgraded? I was under the impression it did. So I have all my original premiere hdd's labeled from what system they came from and stored in case of hdd fail in the future.


----------



## jfh3

whompus60 said:


> Wait... So you are saying the source drive does not have to be the disk drive from the same tivo unit being upgraded?


Correct. The source has to be from the same model, but not the same box.
If it is from the same box (e.g. same TSN), then you don't have to run C&D after a copy.


----------



## KenVa

Has anyone tried to upgrade a Premiere elite with a 3TB drive yet. It looks like the old Premieres are limited to 2TB but maybe the elite can be upgraded beyond that.

That would be my only real interest in getting an Elite. I've already upgraded my THD and Premiere to 2TB so an Elite wouldn't be any more space and I have 4 tuners between the two of them. If it could be upgraded to 3TB then I my interest might be peaked a bit.


----------



## jfh3

KenVa said:


> Has anyone tried to upgrade a Premiere elite with a 3TB drive yet. It looks like the old Premieres are limited to 2TB but maybe the elite can be upgraded beyond that.
> 
> That would be my only real interest in getting an Elite. I've already upgraded my THD and Premiere to 2TB so an Elite wouldn't be any more space and I have 4 tuners between the two of them. If it could be upgraded to 3TB then I my interest might be peaked a bit.


Did you read the first post of the Elite discussion thread?


----------



## BlackBetty

What's the best 2 TB drive to do an internal swap with? Is it the WD 20EARS? Goes for about $80 at Amazon.


----------



## Resist

BlackBetty said:


> What's the best 2 TB drive to do an internal swap with? Is it the WD 20EARS? Goes for about $80 at Amazon.


From what I can gather either the WD20EARS or the WD20EURS The WDEURS being the most optimized for DVR use, yet it's a bit more expensive. I am currently undecided on which drive between the two to get.


----------



## aaronwt

The WD20EURS is what comes in the Elite.


----------



## whompus60

I think the eurs is a newer version of the ears. Maybe a bit more optimized if can be. I use wd20ears in both my premiers. Just got the second one last week from newegg. They have them listed for $69, I used coupon code newcustomer10 and got it for $59. The code worked even though I am not a new customer. I went with it because my first one has worked very well for the 6 or 8 months I have had it.


----------



## unitron

whompus60 said:


> I think the eurs is a newer version of the ears. Maybe a bit more optimized if can be. I use wd20ears in both my premiers. Just got the second one last week from newegg. They have them listed for $69, I used coupon code newcustomer10 and got it for $59. The code worked even though I am not a new customer. I went with it because my first one has worked very well for the 6 or 8 months I have had it.


I'm pretty sure it's the AV version of the EARS.

Same 64MB cache, same advanced format 4K sectors, same 3.0Gb/s.

NewEgg shows them out of stock or discontinued under that model number, although they may still have it in a retail box with a different part number.


----------



## whompus60

I login to newegg and it shows them in stock but price now is $119. I guess they altered the deal. I just check my purchase history and there was nothing special about it except the promo code. Maybe I found an old link to the deal they have now removed or something.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Noticed the recent massive jump in price and shortage of WD HDDs

Massive Flooding in Thailand of the WD facility:
http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/22/world-hard-drive-shortage-predicted-floodi/


----------



## unitron

CoxInPHX said:


> Noticed the recent massive jump in price and shortage of WD HDDs
> 
> Massive Flooding in Thailand of the WD facility:
> http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/22/world-hard-drive-shortage-predicted-floodi/


I don't know if any drive maker other than WD is affected (although I think I read that some 70,000 factories of various sorts, some of which may be suppliers of parts to drive makers, were flooded), but the other brands will no doubt take advantage of the overall shortage of drives to make whatever price increases they can.


----------



## mumpower

jfh3 said:


> Did you read the first post of the Elite discussion thread?


Has anyone confirmed that 3 TB (a 1 TB external addition and the 2 TB internal) is the maximum without Weaknees adjustments? I've seen people mention attempts to expand an internal drive but nothing about externals.


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## jfh3

mumpower said:


> Has anyone confirmed that 3 TB (a 1 TB external addition and the 2 TB internal) is the maximum without Weaknees adjustments? I've seen people mention attempts to expand an internal drive but nothing about externals.


Yes. I confirmed the 1TB external worked.


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## mumpower

I realize that. I am asking whether anyone has confirmed that larger external storage will not work.


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## unitron

mumpower said:


> I realize that. I am asking whether anyone has confirmed that larger external storage will not work.


As I understand it, only specific Western Digital external drives will work on anything newer than the original S3, and the biggest one available is a 1TB model.


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## whompus60

I suspect, be replacing the 1tb drive in the expander with a 2tb ears or eurs would work. I have not tested this though. I may in the future, but right now my expander is used with my bluray player for playing avchd.


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## jfh3

whompus60 said:


> I suspect, be replacing the 1tb drive in the expander with a 2tb ears or eurs would work. I have not tested this though. I may in the future, but right now my expander is used with my bluray player for playing avchd.


No. Others have tried and failed. Tivo queries the firmware/model number in the drive. This will work on the original S3s, but nothing newer.


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## mumpower

jfh3 said:


> No. Others have tried and failed.


For the Elite or for the basic Premiere? I've been monitoring the Elite discussions and haven't seen that thread. Can you link me?


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## jfh3

mumpower said:


> For the Elite or for the basic Premiere? I've been monitoring the Elite discussions and haven't seen that thread. Can you link me?


I was speaking specifically of the original Premiere.

However, I've tried both a 2TB and 3TB in an external enclosure on the Elite and no go. I tried the approved WD AV 1TB drive and it was recognized right away.

I did not try to marry the drives manually, which is what I suspect Weaknees does.


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## whompus60

When you try the 2 or 3 tb external, did you leave the drives as mbr scheme or did you convert them? I suspect they will need to be guid scheme instead of mbr scheme partition tables. Like I said before, I have not tested this but will get around to it at some point. Especially now that I have converted the expander to mbr so it works with my pc's and bluray players.


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## jfh3

I left them as mbr. don't think the Tivo bios supports anything else, but don't know for sure.


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## whompus60

I know the external was not mbr. We also know the system is proprietary file system mfs. It seems to use multiple partitions (kinda like a database) on the drive for application's and media. It also works with an external like it is the same drive, kinda like an extension. If I remember right, mbr is limited to 4 or less partitions. That leads me to suspect the system could be a modified version of an older apple type scheme.


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## unitron

whompus60 said:


> I know the external was not mbr. We also know the system is proprietary file system mfs. It seems to use multiple partitions (kinda like a database) on the drive for application's and media. It also works with an external like it is the same drive, kinda like an extension. If I remember right, mbr is limited to 4 or less partitions. That leads me to suspect the system could be a modified version of an older apple type scheme.


MBR is limited to 4 primary partitions, one of which can be an extended which can contain logical partitions.

Tivos, however, have used a version of the Apple Partition Map.

The APM has a limit of 2 binary TB per drive, and, I've read, 64 partitions, one of which is the Map itself.

It also has the peculiarity of declaring any unpartitioned space as an "Apple Free" partition.

TiVo's software apparently only accomodates a maximum of 16 partitions per drive.

The way TiVo treats external drives is, if I'm not mistaken, somewhat different from the way it treated second internal drives on the Series 1 and Series 2 models, which, being IDE/PATA based, could easily use the Master/Slave setup.


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## vhavard

Took one of these drives out of an external esata case to try to use it in my Premier, but as previously reported by another user, it would boot erratically looking very much like the intellipark problem with not being able to boot after a soft reset.

Just an FYI, don't get this drive if you're trying to do an upgrade.


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## unitron

vhavard said:


> Took one of these drives out of an external esata case to try to use it in my Premier, but as previously reported by another user, it would boot erratically looking very much like the intellipark problem with not being able to boot after a soft reset.
> 
> Just an FYI, don't get this drive if you're trying to do an upgrade.


Apparently the newer Seagate drives just don't play well with S3 and S4 TiVos (and of course are too big for S2s and S1s).


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## GoEagles

I'm interested in using a Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gbps 3.5" Desktop Internal Hard Drive. Can I use this for a TiVo Premiere or must I use a WD drive? 

Thanks!


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## unitron

GoEagles said:


> I'm interested in using a Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gbps 3.5" Desktop Internal Hard Drive. Can I use this for a TiVo Premiere or must I use a WD drive?
> 
> Thanks!


You might be better off using that Seagate as one big NT partition in a computer running TiVo Desktop.

Seagates are getting mixed reviews in S3s and S4s lately.

What's the exact model number on the sticker, and if it was a boxed retail purchase, what's the exact model number on the box?

You might be better off using that Seagate as one big NT partition in a computer running TiVo Desktop.


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## slowbiscuit

vhavard said:


> Took one of these drives out of an external esata case to try to use it in my Premier, but as previously reported by another user, it would boot erratically looking very much like the intellipark problem with not being able to boot after a soft reset.
> 
> Just an FYI, don't get this drive if you're trying to do an upgrade.


I have an ST1500DL001 1.5TB that I pulled out of a Seagate FreeAgent external and it boots ok after a jmfs copy/expand/supersize from the original drive, haven't tried a soft reboot. This is a 2-year old Barracuda Green 5900rpm drive with (I think) advanced format and 64MB cache. It has what Seagate calls a 'SmartAlign' feature which is supposed to handle 512-to-4k sector mappings for OS' that don't support 4k sectors.

I really don't care if it hangs on soft reboot, personally, since it boots fast from a cold one and the only time if should soft reboot is after a software upgrade. The only question is how long the Seagate drive will last in a Tivo.

FWIW, I bought it from Staples for $70 net last week so it's a cheap way to get a 1.5TB drive if anyone is interested (buy the item from staples.com with a $25 off $75 coupon from e-junkie.com, then price match to Amazon at $90 after order is placed).


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## GoEagles

unitron said:


> You might be better off using that Seagate as one big NT partition in a computer running TiVo Desktop.
> 
> Seagates are getting mixed reviews in S3s and S4s lately.
> 
> What's the exact model number on the sticker, and if it was a boxed retail purchase, what's the exact model number on the box?
> 
> You might be better off using that Seagate as one big NT partition in a computer running TiVo Desktop.


I am not sure, this is the item at MicroCenter I am interested in getting, for $70 or so for a 1.5TB drive, it's worth looking into:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0372925


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## unitron

GoEagles said:


> I am not sure, this is the item at MicroCenter I am interested in getting, for $70 or so for a 1.5TB drive, it's worth looking into:
> 
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0372925


Refurbished, OEM, 90 day warranty?

I'd keep looking.

I don't know if this will work in a TiVo, but it's the same capacity, new, and cheaper

http://www.compusa.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=7331904&sku=TSD-1500AS3

I tried checking Amazon, but their search results are horribly polluted with drives of the wrong size and enclosures and other junk.


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## GoEagles

slowbiscuit said:


> I have an ST1500DL001 1.5TB that I pulled out of a Seagate FreeAgent external and it boots ok after a jmfs copy/expand/supersize from the original drive, haven't tried a soft reboot. This is a 2-year old Barracuda Green 5900rpm drive with (I think) advanced format and 64MB cache. It has what Seagate calls a 'SmartAlign' feature which is supposed to handle 512-to-4k sector mappings for OS' that don't support 4k sectors.
> 
> I really don't care if it hangs on soft reboot, personally, since it boots fast from a cold one and the only time if should soft reboot is after a software upgrade. The only question is how long the Seagate drive will last in a Tivo.
> 
> FWIW, I bought it from Staples for $70 net last week so it's a cheap way to get a 1.5TB drive if anyone is interested (buy the item from staples.com with a $25 off $75 coupon from e-junkie.com, then price match to Amazon at $90 after order is placed).


I'm just made at myself because I saw a 2TB upgrade kit for $160 on eBay and didn't buy it now. $169 for a hard drive is pricey, but if the seagate can work, I want to try to use it.


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## curiousgeorge

Trying to see if the WD5000AADS I have laying around will work in a Premiere with JMFS, and also if the intellipark still has to be disabled with WDidle to make it work (if it works at all). Anyone have experence with this actual drive? I see a lot that are close, but not this one (except in a S3 post).

Thanks in advance!


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## unitron

curiousgeorge said:


> Trying to see if the WD5000AADS I have laying around will work in a Premiere with JMFS, and also if the intellipark still has to be disabled with WDidle to make it work (if it works at all). Anyone have experence with this actual drive? I see a lot that are close, but not this one (except in a S3 post).
> 
> Thanks in advance!


You can run wdidle3 against it and see what happens.

I don't know of a reason why it won't work, and why jmfs can't add a partition, although if I were going to go to the trouble I'd go with a 2TB if budget permitted.


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## curiousgeorge

unitron said:


> You can run wdidle3 against it and see what happens.
> 
> I don't know of a reason why it won't work, and why jmfs can't add a partition, although if I were going to go to the trouble I'd go with a 2TB if budget permitted.


500GB = free (I have it from a pull off a computer). 2TB = $$$ OOP.

The earlier green WD drives had intellipark that used to mess up TiVo and cause it not to boot. I was just trying to skip the wdidle step if it wasn't necessary anymore.


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## unitron

curiousgeorge said:


> 500GB = free (I have it from a pull off a computer). 2TB = $$$ OOP.
> 
> The earlier green WD drives had intellipark that used to mess up TiVo and cause it not to boot. I was just trying to skip the wdidle step if it wasn't necessary anymore.


http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-critical-design-flaw-found-in-wd-caviar-green-hdds.html


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## mobouser

Hi just upgraded my TIVO using the method outlined here. I also used jzab.de/content/wdidle-bootcd. I went from 320g to 2TB WD20EARX. Everything running OK. A little trouble with the iso outlined here for copying. Had to install on an older computer SATA Drives. My latest build is an AMD based A6 CPU with internal graphics and northbridge. I dont know why but it did not work whereas the wdidle program ran OK in dos on that machine did that first. Thanks Paul D


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