# Your cable channel lineup has no digital channels? What?



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

New Roamio Plus. Went to check channel signal strength as I've done on my S3 TiVos, and when I get to that screen it says "Signal strength is unavailable because your cable channel lineup has no digital channels".

Excuse me? *ALL *my channels are digital. Anyone know what's going on here?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

What cable system are you on? Do you have a CableCard installed?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

tarheelblue32 said:


> What cable system are you on? Do you have a CableCard installed?


I see the same message on my two Roamios and my Premiere. But the two S3s will do a signal test against the cable just fine. This is on TWC with CableCards and tuning adapters. (All tuning adapters active and working, by the way.)

I remember noticing this when I first got my Premiere, a few years ago. I'm surprised to see OP says he sees it on his S3, where signal tests work for me.


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## davidnnc (Apr 25, 2015)

ej42137 said:


> I see the same message on my two Roamios and my Premiere. But the two S3s will do a signal test against the cable just fine. This is on TWC with CableCards and tuning adapters. (All tuning adapters active and working, by the way.)
> 
> I remember noticing this when I first got my Premiere, a few years ago. I'm surprised to see OP says he sees it on his S3, where signal tests work for me.


I've got a Roamio Plus and the same message. I'm on TWC using a CC and TA. Most if not all the channels are digital. Never has shown anything but "No digital channels".


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I've been seeing this for years with no rhyme or reason. At one point I could access it on my wife's Roamio but not mine, even though they use the exact same lineup. It's been a while since I tried, so I'm not sure what state they're in right now.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

ej42137 said:


> I see the same message on my two Roamios and my Premiere. But the two S3s will do a signal test against the cable just fine. This is on TWC with CableCards and tuning adapters. (All tuning adapters active and working, by the way.)
> 
> I remember noticing this when I first got my Premiere, a few years ago. I'm surprised to see OP says he sees it on his S3, where signal tests work for me.


As some of the others, I'm on Time Warner in L.A., cable card, TA, all working fine, just the weird message. And I do have the ability to test signal strength on my S3's, just not the Roamio.


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## JSearfoss (Nov 17, 2008)

Do you have a Tuning Adapter ? If so I believe that is what causes the message. If you have a tuning adapter the Tivo gets the channel lineup from the TA, not the cable card. You have to go to the Tuning Adapter Diagnostics screen to see the signal strength.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

JSearfoss said:


> Do you have a Tuning Adapter ? If so I believe that is what causes the message. If you have a tuning adapter the Tivo gets the channel lineup from the TA, not the cable card. You have to go to the Tuning Adapter Diagnostics screen to see the signal strength.


Yes, this is correct.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

JSearfoss said:


> Do you have a Tuning Adapter ? If so I believe that is what causes the message. If you have a tuning adapter the Tivo gets the channel lineup from the TA, not the cable card. You have to go to the Tuning Adapter Diagnostics screen to see the signal strength.


That was my first thought, and why I checked the tuning adapter connected to the S3 to make sure that it was working. Everything in my house (except the OTA TiVo HD) is using a (working) tuning adapter. S3s can check signal strength, the Premiere and the Roamios cannot. (I suspect it is just happenstance that it is only the S3s have this function working.)

And thinking back, when I first noticed this was before tuning adapters were required in my area.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

HarperVision said:


> Yes, this is correct.


I don't think so. My S3 OLED devices both have cable cards and TAs, and both display channel signal strength on the appropriate screen. The Roamio, which has a cablecard and TA, does not.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dougdingle said:


> I don't think so. My S3 OLED devices both have cable cards and TAs, and both display channel signal strength on the appropriate screen. The Roamio, which has a cablecard and TA, does not.


I only have roamios now and that's what I was referring to. The person I quoted didn't specify S3 or S5.


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## Wattsline (Apr 27, 2015)

There are two test channels menu items. If you have a tuning adapter you need to do the channel test using tuning adapter it will allow you to test channels. Because the tuning adapter is doing the channel tuning I think the Tivo doesn't see digital channels itself causing the message.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Wattsline said:


> There are two test channels menu items. If you have a tuning adapter you need to do the channel test using tuning adapter it will allow you to test channels. Because the tuning adapter is doing the channel tuning I think the Tivo doesn't see digital channels itself causing the message.


Exactly.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Wattsline said:


> There are two different channel test. You want the one that does channel test using the tuning adapter if you have one. it will allow you to test channels.


That's not the same test; there you can see if a channel is being received, but there is no signal strength meter as you get on the channel test under Settings/Channels. On my two S3s I see signal strength levels that are different for each channel but consistent for each channel. In my case I see some channels that are always around 90%, others around 80% or so. For a Roamio you can see the current signal strengths for each tuner, but you can't change the channel for a tuner from that panel, and the signal strength that I see is always 100%.

And I've got tuning adapters on both the S3 and Roamio TiVos; the signal strength meter is available on the S3s but the Roamios show the absurd message about no digital channels.


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## Wattsline (Apr 27, 2015)

ej42137 said:


> That's not the same test; there you can see if a channel is being received, but there is no signal strength meter as you get on the channel test under Settings/Channels. On my two S3s I see signal strength levels that are different for each channel but consistent for each channel. In my case I see some channels that are always around 90%, others around 80% or so. For a Roamio you can see the current signal strengths for each tuner, but you can't change the channel for a tuner from that panel, and the signal strength that I see is always 100%.
> 
> And I've got tuning adapters on both the S3 and Roamio TiVos; the signal strength meter is available on the S3s but the Roamios show the absurd message about no digital channels.


I know it's not the same test but that's how it works if you have a tuning adapter. Do you have one? If you don't need a tuning adapter I think the other method would work. The signal strength in the diagnostics screen is not for a tuner but the channel the tuner is tuned to. You also get SNR.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Wattsline said:


> I know it's not the same test but that's how it works if you have a tuning adapter. Do you have one? If you don't need a tuning adapter I think the other method would work. The signal strength in the diagnostics screen is not for a tuner but the channel the tuner is tuned to. You also get SNR.


I have five tuning adapters connected to two S3s, two Roamios and one Premiere. As said earlier, the difference in my house is not whether there is a tuning adapter, it is S3 versus Roamio and Premiere. OP sees this message for he S3 TiVo, the opposite of my experience.

If I get a chance I'll disconnect the TA from one of my Roamios and see what happens.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

ej42137 said:


> I have five tuning adapters connected to two S3s, two Roamios and one Premiere. As said earlier, the difference in my house is not whether there is a tuning adapter, it is S3 versus Roamio and Premiere. OP sees this message for he S3 TiVo, the opposite of my experience.


Um, no. I'm the OP.

I can see signal strength indicators for individual channels on my two S3's which have cablecards and TAs, but not a Roamio with cablecard and TA. It's the Roamio that gives me the stupid message about no digital channels.

Also, to respond to some of the comments, the function of SDV and the TA is *NOT* to tune the digital channels, but to map them for the cablecard and keep a table of common channel mapping internally. Tuning channels and decoding them is still the cablecard's job.

The function of the TA is like this:

-The TiVo gets a request to tune to channel 512, and passes it on to the TA via USB.

-The TA checks its internal mapping table, and if it can't find the channel it immediately contacts 'Mom', says 'This device wants channel 512. What channel is it really on?'

-'Mom' tells it that for now, it's actually going to be on channel 1563. (If the TA finds the current mapping internally, it skips the 'calling Mom' step.)

-The TA sends a command to the TiVo's tuner via USB to tune to channel 1563, and instructs the TiVo to display that it's tuned to channel 512.

Until it screws up, the concept is transparent to the end user. Every once in a while, or after a reboot, the TA gets sent fresh mapping info, and that's when you see the psychedelic 'Acquiring Channel Information' screen. A lot of the channel mapping is kept inside the TA, but for some stuff it has to get it from 'Mom'.

The identical thing takes place inside the cableco's box, except that they can talk to it directly and make things happen. For the cableco's box, the TA is actually back at 'Mom', if you wish to think of it that way.

The system allows the cableco to switch channel assignments constantly and invisibly in the background, and also allows it to steer certain less popular channels to you only when you ask for them. It is then sent to your neighborhood via a spur cable segment (think: railroad tracks) so it only goes to two or three hundred homes in your segment.

It's actually quite clever, despite being quite annoying.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dougdingle said:


> Um, no. I'm the OP. I can see signal strength indicators for individual channels on my two S3's which have cablecards and TAs, but not a Roamio with cablecard and TA. It's the Roamio that gives me the stupid message about no digital channels. Also, to respond to some of the comments, the function of SDV and the TA is NOT to tune the digital channels, but to map them for the cablecard and keep a table of common channel mapping internally. Tuning channels and decoding them is still the cablecard's job. The function of the TA is like this: -The TiVo gets a request to tune to channel 512, and passes it on to the TA via USB. -The TA checks its internal mapping table, and if it can't find the channel it immediately contacts 'Mom', says 'This device wants channel 512. What channel is it really on?' -'Mom' tells it that for now, it's actually going to be on channel 1563. (If the TA finds the current mapping internally, it skips the 'calling Mom' step.) -The TA sends a command to the cablecard via USB to tune to channel 1563, and instructs the TiVo to display that it's tuned to channel 512. Until it screws up, the concept is transparent to the end user. Every once in a while, or after a reboot, the TA gets sent fresh mapping info, and that's when you see the psychedelic 'Acquiring Channel Information' screen. A lot of the channel mapping is kept inside the TA, but for some stuff it has to get it from 'Mom'. The identical thing takes place inside the cableco's box, except that they can talk to it directly and make things happen. For the cableco's box, the TA is actually back at 'Mom', if you wish to think of it that way. The system allows the cableco to switch channel assignments constantly and invisibly in the background, and also allows it to steer certain less popular channels to you only when you ask for them. It is then sent to your neighborhood via a spur cable segment (think: railroad tracks) so it only goes to two or three hundred homes in your segment. It's actually quite clever, despite being quite annoying.


I'm pretty sure the tuning is in the "tuner" device, in this case the TiVo. That's where the tuners physically reside. The cablecard is merely a security device (similar to a satellite access card) that allows the channels you pay for to be shown and when you don't have a TA, to also provide the channel mapping "from mom". When a TA is inserted into the chain, it takes over mapping and what you described by being the go between for SDV channels to tell it which frequencies to tune to. Tuning is still via the TiVo's tuners, authorization is still in the cablecard, and SDV with channel mapping is is done via TA, when needed.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain I'm not. The cablecard has no tuners.


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## Wattsline (Apr 27, 2015)

HarperVision said:


> I'm pretty sure the tuning is in the "tuner" device, in this case the TiVo. That's where the tuners physically reside. The cablecard is merely a security device (similar to a satellite access card) that allows the channels you pay for to be shown and when you don't have a TA, to also provide the channel mapping "from mom". When a TA is inserted into the chain, it takes over mapping and what you described by being the go between for SDV channels to tell it which frequencies to tune to. Tuning is still via the TiVo's tuners, authorization is still in the cablecard, and SDV with channel mapping is is done via TA, when needed.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain I'm not. The cablecard has no tuners.


I would agree with this, the tuning adapter main function is the channel map and telling the cable co to send channel X. That's the SDV part that allows the cable company to utilize bandwidth better. The cable card is only for decoding encrypted channels.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

HarperVision said:


> I'm pretty sure the tuning is in the "tuner" device, in this case the TiVo. That's where the tuners physically reside. The cablecard is merely a security device (similar to a satellite access card) that allows the channels you pay for to be shown and when you don't have a TA, to also provide the channel mapping "from mom". When a TA is inserted into the chain, it takes over mapping and what you described by being the go between for SDV channels to tell it which frequencies to tune to. Tuning is still via the TiVo's tuners, authorization is still in the cablecard, and SDV with channel mapping is is done via TA, when needed.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain I'm not. The cablecard has no tuners.


No, you are correct. That will teach me to post after a 14 hour work day.

The TA does the channel mapping, the actual tuning to the channel is done by the TiVo tuner(s), the CC provides the security to enable the channel.

Which begs the question - since this is how it works on both the S3 and Roamio, why can't the Roamio display signal strength received by its built in tuners? Is it because it has six tuners?

And since the feature doesn't seem to work, why not remove it from the menu?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JSearfoss said:


> Do you have a Tuning Adapter ? If so I believe that is what causes the message. If you have a tuning adapter the Tivo gets the channel lineup from the TA, not the cable card. You have to go to the Tuning Adapter Diagnostics screen to see the signal strength.


Not true. I have a TA and was able to use the regular signal strength screen yesterday just fine. Honestly I've been seeing this message on and off for years, even on the S3. I have never been able to pin down what causes it.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

dougdingle said:


> Um, no. I'm the OP.


Pardon me, I read your message too fast the first time through and never read it again. We do indeed see the same thing, thanks for putting me straight.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

When I disconnect the tuning adapter from one of my Roamios, the signal strength meter comes back. For my S3s, the signal strength meter is always available.

I can imagine a programmer deciding that this function might be misleading when a TA is attached, since SDV channels won't be mapping to the same place any more like non-switched channels. A lazy programmer might reuse a somewhat misleading existing message rather than come up with a better new one because of the hassle involved changing an external message. But that's just idle speculation on my part.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Not true. I have a TA and was able to use the regular signal strength screen yesterday just fine. Honestly I've been seeing this message on and off for years, even on the S3. I have never been able to pin down what causes it.


I think we are confusing signal strength with testing channels. I know I did.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The signal strength test seems to give the error in the OP randomly. I've run into it a bunch over the years where I try to access it and it says I have no digital channels. Even though my system is all digital.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

The signal strength test have never once worked on my Roamio Pro. But I've never needed it, so I didn't worry about it.

I know I played with it a bit on my S3 long, lon ago, but I'm not sure I ever had occasion to use it after I got a TA.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

The reason I even brought this up is because I am evaluating a new 1x8 RF distribution amplifier, and was curious whether channels registering below '100' would improve with the amp, which claims 4db gain on each of the 8 outputs. 

I was surprised by the Roamio's assertion that I have no digital channels, when that's all I have.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dougdingle said:


> The reason I even brought this up is because I am evaluating a new 1x8 RF distribution amplifier, and was curious whether channels registering below '100' would improve with the amp, which claims 4db gain on each of the 8 outputs. I was surprised by the Roamio's assertion that I have no digital channels, when that's all I have.


The only time I remember seeing that note is when I had a TA attached and it moved over to the TA menus instead of the Cablecard menus. I don't recall exactly which menu item I was in at the time. I think I took the TA out of the chain and it reverted back to the CC menus. This is all from memory so I could easily have it wrong though.

I'll see if I can remember to check it out when I get home from work later.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

So the DVR Diagnostics screen will show the signal level on the current channels tuned by the six tuners. 

Not as convenient as on the S3, where you can use the Chan-Up-Down buttons to go through all the channels, but at least it's something.


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