# The TiVo Wireless G Adapter is here!



## TiVoJerry

It's not too often that I am given the opportunity to make a product announcement, but this was just too good to pass up! Many of you have heard rumor of a TiVo-branded wireless 802.11g adapter (TiVoPony showed it back in the summer) and it has now come to fruition. :up: And I don't feel like I'm biased when I say that this is one good-looking adapter! http://www.tivo.com/2.7.1.asp

And this is the first 802.11g adapter that is compatible with ALL TiVo Series2 standalone platforms (even the first generation models with the 110, 130, and 140 TSN prefixes)!! It has a full MAC chipset to optimize performance with a TiVo DVR (cannot be used on a PC or Macintosh).

For those of you who were following this thread, you may have noticed that one was visible on my desk.


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## Dan203

I noticed it on your desk, but I had seen one before so I wasn't allowed to point it out. 

Dan


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## MickeS

It does indeed look really nice!



> It has a full MAC chipset to optimize performance with a TiVo DVR (cannot be used on a PC or Macintosh).


What does this mean in terms of real transfer speed numbers? Will the seemingly unbreakable barrier around 600kB/s using wifi USB adapters finally go away, giving it full 802.11g capacity?

/Mike


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## dirtypacman

Thanks for the heads up!!!


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## cheerdude

Sweet... Ordered mine (x2)


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## DCIFRTHS

TiVoJerry said:


> ..... It has a full MAC chipset to optimize performance with a TiVo DVR (cannot be used on a PC or Macintosh). ....


Would you elaborate?


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## jsmeeker

yay!!

Finally, it makes it to market.


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## ChuckyBox

For those of you who like to see the insides of things, here is a link to the documents filed with the FCC. The "internal photos" show enough detail to read part numbers.

Let the speculation begin...


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## DCIFRTHS

Link to the chipset...


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## MickeS

That does indeed seem to be the chip used in this device.



> The on-chip processor and memory are capable of running all wireless functions on-chip, allowing embedded system designers to add wireless LAN technology to a variety of platforms without burdoning the host processor.


So this should increase the transfer speed, since the TiVo will not have to do the WiFi-related processing, just like using a USB-ethernet adapter increases the speed, correct?


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## jbondsr

Will Tivo support WPA?


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## Dan203

jbondsr said:


> Will Tivo support WPA?


That will require a software upgrade on the TiVo itself. As of right now TiVo only supports WEP regardless of the brand of the adapter you're using.

Dan


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## DCIFRTHS

Dan203 said:


> That will require a software upgrade on the TiVo itself. As of right now TiVo only supports WEP regardless of the brand of the adapter you're using.
> 
> Dan


This is one reason why I don't like to use wireless for TiVo.


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## MickeS

DCIFRTHS,
you can go the bridge route, then you can get a wireless tivo with WPA.
I bought a refurbished WPA-enabled 802.11g bridge and a used USB-ethernet adapter for about what this new TiVo adapter costs.

/Mike


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## Gunnyman

would the drivers for this puppy be in 6.2 software?


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## davezatz

FYI the adapter doesn't plug directly into the back of the TiVo... you'll need to use the USB extension cable which isn't visible in the TiVo store photos. My current adapter works reasonably well and I prefer less cable clutter, but I do have a new adapter on order for the sake of testing. When I'm done, I'll raffle it off.  (Unless the speeds are blazingly fast, then it's all mine.)


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## jkalnin

Anyone care to tell us how much faster this will make transfers? What is the max transfer rate with this puppy?


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## Dan203

This may take the burden of WiFi off of the processor, but I wouldn't expect a huge difference in TTG transfers since the main factor causing slowness there is processing power required to mux the streams into a single file. Although it could have a significant impact on MRV transfers since they don't require the muxing process. 

I'd actually be interested in seeing a comparison when someone gets one. 

Dan


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## TiVoJerry

The full MAC architecture of the TiVo Wireless G adapter does indeed offload work from the CPU of your TiVo box, which in theory can result in an increase in networking throughput. In real-world use, wireless throughput depends on your network environment, what other processes are running on your TiVo box, and a host of other factors. Some users will see a noticeable improvement in wireless throughput for the TiVo adapter compared to other wireless adapters, and others will not.

With regard to WPA, at this time the TiVo Wireless G adapter does not support WPA, and supports WEP only. We are aware of our customers desire for WPA, and are investigating WPA implementation for a future software release.


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## pawchikapawpaw

oooo, it's pretty.

one question, though, before i buy it, i have the d-link adapter on my tivo, can i still use that one on my computer, or is it gone?


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## Dan203

pawchikapawpaw said:


> I have the d-link adapter on my tivo, can i still use that one on my computer, or is it gone?


It should still work when connected to a computer provided that computer has the proper drivers installed. The TiVo software doesn't do anything to 3rd party adapters that would cause them to only work on a TiVo.

Dan


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## TiVoJerry

Gunnyman said:


> would the drivers for this puppy be in 6.2 software?


Nope. SW 7.2.1 or higher is required.



pawchikapawpaw said:


> one question, though, before i buy it, i have the d-link adapter on my tivo, can i still use that one on my computer, or is it gone?


That depends on whether or not you ever saw a screen advising you of a firmware update when you first plugged the D-Link into the TiVo. If you saw it, it probably will not work on any other device...as the screen would've warned you explicitly. If you did not receive a firmware update, then it should work. My advice to you is try the adapter on your computer before committing to buying the new adapter.

Sorry Dan203. In most cases your statement would be correct but there are times when a firmware upgrade was installed that warns the user that the adapter will not be usable again on other devices. It's not common but it does happen.


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## petew

Dan203 said:


> It should still work when connected to a computer provided that computer has the proper drivers installed. The TiVo software doesn't do anything to 3rd party adapters that would cause them to only work on a TiVo.
> 
> Dan


Actually that not entirely correct. I believe Tivo will change the firmware rev on certain wireless adapters. If the adpater is moved back to a PC it's necessary to flash the firmware again, back to a rev supported by the current windows drivers.

There's a thread somewhere in the forums, I just can't find it!


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## pawchikapawpaw

TiVoJerry said:


> Nope. SW 7.2.1 or higher is required.
> 
> That depends on whether or not you ever saw a screen advising you of a firmware update when you first plugged the D-Link into the TiVo. If you saw it, it probably will not work on any other device...as the screen would've warned you explicitly. If you did not receive a firmware update, then it should work. My advice to you is try the adapter on your computer before committing to buying the new adapter.


i think i had the firmware update screen when i first used it. it was way back, so i can't remember for sure.

(ooops, i think my steel toe boot accidentally made its way into the tivo cabinet and unplugged it and smashed the adapter. over and over again. ugh, the tragedy. i guess i'll have to buy that thing you guys are hawking to us.)


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## Dan203

I stand corrected! 

Dan


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## ZeoTiVo

petew said:


> Actually that not entirely correct. I believe Tivo will change the firmware rev on certain wireless adapters. If the adpater is moved back to a PC it's necessary to flash the firmware again, back to a rev supported by the current windows drivers.
> 
> There's a thread somewhere in the forums, I just can't find it!


I also think it was mainly early on with B adapters and I do not recall seeing any reports on having to do this with G adapters


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## petew

The adapter in question was the D-Link DWL-122

And here's a thread that may help restore it for use with a PC:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=235316


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## TiVoJerry

davezatz said:


> FYI the adapter doesn't plug directly into the back of the TiVo... you'll need to use the USB extension cable which isn't visible in the TiVo store photos.


If you click on "View more images" below the image on the store page, you'll see a side view with the cable, a view of it closed, and a view of the carton.


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## ChuckyBox

TiVoJerry said:


> If you click on "View more images" below the image on the store page, you'll see a side view with the cable, a view of it closed, and a view of the carton.


But is the cable included in the package with the adapter? I would guess it is, but maybe the text description of the product ought to include that information.


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## megazone

Yes, the cable is included.


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## davezatz

So my question is this... will we be seeing this Broadcom chipset built into the forthcoming HD models?


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## vervepipe

Just a quick question, any idea as to when this might show up in the TiVo Rewards selection? :up:


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## Hew

Will the TiVo adapter ever make it into a Best Buy? 

Are there any plans of bundling it with a series 2? 

Bundling would definatly help tivo in adding more broadband enabled TiVo's.


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## mrmike

Is it wrong to want one just 'cause it's pretty? (My TiVo's are all wired in directly).


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## Halfdeaf

TiVoJerry said:


> We are aware of our customers desire for WPA, and are investigating WPA implementation for a future software release.


ClapClapClapClapClap...


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## Justin Thyme

The TivoJerry desk prerelease shot was fun. 

How about a video next time- published via download. See how many loompahs you can spot as the cameraman barges in to various rooms.

Thanks for the heads up- sent one off to my sister earlier today. I think she'll be very pleased with the styling.


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## boywaja

Glad i didn't wait on product. From what I had heard about the device, I thought it would be a wired to wireless bridge supporting wpa. Instead, as far as I'm concerned this is a big so what. 

I'm very happy with my wiireless bridge between two linksys routers using sveasoft firmware.


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## audiocrawford

mrmike said:


> Is it wrong to want one just 'cause it's pretty? (My TiVo's are all wired in directly).


I'd really like to know if TiVo is planning on a WIRED adapter now. Many of us don't use wireless because of all the security headaches and reduced and/or reliability of speed, but would still like to benefit from faster speeds that a TiVo-specific adapter would give (as others have outlined in this thread, due to design).

AC


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## EwanG

Given that there was a tutorial published last week (and even linked to from the front page of Digg) on how to hack a WPA connection, I guess I don't get why there is so much desire to get WPA support?

For myself, I found that simply setting up my router to only accept Wireless G connections seems to keep the riff-raff out as most folks looking to "borrow" a connection are still using Wireless B. Of course the fact I use a directional antenna on my adapter to make sure almost all my signal is being sent into my house might also be part of this.

FWIW,
Ewan


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## rog

I would love to see this on the TiVo Rewards page!


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## hoosxj

MickeS said:


> DCIFRTHS,
> you can go the bridge route, then you can get a wireless tivo with WPA.
> I bought a refurbished WPA-enabled 802.11g bridge and a used USB-ethernet adapter for about what this new TiVo adapter costs.
> 
> /Mike


i have a question about this setup...i currently have my xbox and one tivo wired to a netgear wireless-g router downstairs in my house. i'd like to move the router upstairs to get better overall coverage. i also have an old linksys 10/100 wired hub. if i were to get a wireless bridge, could i connect it to the WAN port of the hub and connect both the xbox and the tivo (w/ USB ethernet) to my network through it?


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## Tap

TiVoJerry said:


> The full MAC architecture of the TiVo Wireless G adapter does indeed offload work from the CPU of your TiVo box, which in theory can result in an increase in networking throughput. In real-world use, wireless throughput depends on your network environment, what other processes are running on your TiVo box, and a host of other factors. Some users will see a noticeable improvement in wireless throughput for the TiVo adapter compared to other wireless adapters, and others will not.
> 
> With regard to WPA, at this time the TiVo Wireless G adapter does not support WPA, and supports WEP only. We are aware of our customers desire for WPA, and are investigating WPA implementation for a future software release.


Just to make it clear - the processing duties the adapter are relieving the tivo of have to do with managing the wireless nic, right?

For those of us using the Linksys USB2Ethernet adapter, and having that adapter plugged into a wireless bridge, we would expect to see no benefit as far as the muxing of the video when we are transfering files to TivoToGo, right? The new adapter doesn't offload any thing to do with the video files itself?


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## TiVoJerry

Tap said:


> Just to make it clear - the processing duties the adapter are relieving the tivo of have to do with managing the wireless nic, right?


That is essentially correct.



Tap said:


> For those of us using the Linksys USB2Ethernet adapter, and having that adapter plugged into a wireless bridge, we would expect to see no benefit as far as the muxing of the video when we are transfering files to TivoToGo, right? The new adapter doesn't offload any thing to do with the video files itself?


While I wouldn't expect to see improved performance over this particular setup, I do not know how much, if any, of the workload for your adapter is passed down to the DVR. It is certainly possible that you might still see some benefit, but I would leave this be if I were in your shoes (especially if you are able to use WPA in this manner).


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## Tap

TiVoJerry said:


> That is essentially correct.
> 
> While I wouldn't expect to see improved performance over this particular setup, I do not know how much, if any, of the workload for your adapter is passed down to the DVR. It is certainly possible that you might still see some benefit, but I would leave this be if I were in your shoes (especially if you are able to use WPA in this manner).


Thanks, Jerry.


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## ChuckyBox

TiVoJerry said:


> While I wouldn't expect to see improved performance over this particular setup, I do not know how much, if any, of the workload for your adapter is passed down to the DVR.


How much is passed down in general? I'm using the Linksys wireless b adapter you used to sell on tivo.com. I don't do much TTG, but I like the Yahoo and apps.tv kind of applications which make both network and imaging demands on the processor, but are not necessarily bandwidth-intensive. Could I expect a significant performance improvement from the new adapter?


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## TiVoJerry

ChuckyBox said:


> How much is passed down in general? I'm using the Linksys wireless b adapter you used to sell on tivo.com. I don't do much TTG, but I like the Yahoo and apps.tv kind of applications which make both network and imaging demands on the processor, but are not necessarily bandwidth-intensive. Could I expect a significant performance improvement from the new adapter?


It's really hard for me to quantify. The figures vary from adapter to adapter, and the effect on performance can vary depending on what processes are running on the DVR at that particular moment (not all of which are customer facing).

Think of this empirically---if you're happy with the performance you have now, there's not much reason to switch at this time. However, if this happens to be the only 802.11b adapter on an otherwise all-802.11g network, it might be worth making the move as it could have a positive effect on network speeds as a whole.


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## JamieP

TiVoJerry:

The usb-cdc.o kernel module used by this new adapter appears to be licensed under the GPL: the module metadata in the object file shows "license=GPL". I'd like to request the source for this module under the terms of the GPL It does not seem to be available from www.tivo.com/linux.


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## TiVoJerry

That's a good point. I have to admit that we did not properly prepare for a request of that nature. Once I've researched this further, I will try to let you know when this is available but there may be a delay due to my attending CES next week.

Thanks for pointing this out.


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## tiellv

:up: Yay! Just in time! My Netgear WG111 on my newest TiVo seems to have crapped out so I put my old Linksys 802.11b adaptor on it to get the downloads. I just ordered 2 of the TiVo adaptors, one for my newer TiVo and one for my older TiVo that could only use 802.11b previously.


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## djhansensr

Jerry,

I bought the new TiVo wireless adaptor, and later found out that it doesn't support WPA. Is WPA support scheduled for the near future, and will it just be a matter of upgrading the TiVo software version? Would the adaptor have the support already built in? I'm debating on whether or not to return the new adaptor, or hold onto it until WPA is supported. 

Thanks,
Dean


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## stevel

Re: WPA - see what TiVoJerry said here.

In other words, you'll know when (if) it's released, and not before that.


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## 2004raptor

I ordered one for myself but do have a general question.

It is called a TiVo wireless *G* USB network adapter. The description says


> Easily connect your TiVo Series2 DVR to your 802.11g or 802.11*b* wireless home network


Not trying to split hairs just want to make sure my thinking is correct. Just in the world of PC's, if you currently have a "G" router, you can add "B" devices (network adapters). This is known as being backwards compatable. But if you currently have a "B" router, I didn't think you could add "G" devices.

Is my thinking flawed?


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## pdhenry

You can add a G device to a B router.

In this case, backwards compatible means that the routers and the device are both capable of establishing a B connection.


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## Prozium

2004raptor said:


> I ordered one for myself but do have a general question.
> 
> It is called a TiVo wireless *G* USB network adapter. The description says
> 
> Not trying to split hairs just want to make sure my thinking is correct. Just in the world of PC's, if you currently have a "G" router, you can add "B" devices (network adapters). This is known as being backwards compatable. But if you currently have a "B" router, I didn't think you could add "G" devices.
> 
> Is my thinking flawed?


An 802.11g or 802.11b wireless adapter will work on any 802.11g or 802.11b router (assuming you have the router setup to accept connections from both B & G devices. There are performance modes where an 802.11g router won't accept connections from 802.11b devices.) Although it will only run at the speed of the slowest device connected.


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## 2004raptor

Thanks pdhenry and Prozium. I stand corrected. I know that I heard/read that somewhere in the past and it stuck with me. Thanks for clearing it up.


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## cheerdude

Routers were to have arrived on Saturday (despite me not ordering Saturday delivery) <g> However, the office was closed and the apartment has an electronic gate. They didn't try to buzz in... so the delivery is postponed until Wednesday (home delivery is closed on Tuesday).


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## bicker

How much of an improvement in speed should we see with the new adapter?


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## djhansensr

The big question is:

Would the adaptor have the support already built in for WPA? I'm debating on whether or not to return the new adaptor, or hold onto it until WPA is supported.


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## 2004raptor

Since I have MAC address filtering and WEP already configured on my router, what will the tivo need for me to connect the Adapter when i get it?
IOW for MAC address filtering, how can I get the MAC address of the adapter so I can add it to the approved list?
And for WEP, when I plug in the adapter willtivo prompt me for the key?
thanks


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## stevel

The MAC address should be printed on the adapter or box somewhere. The TiVo software will let you set the WEP key.


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## 2004raptor

stevel said:


> The MAC address should be printed on the adapter or box somewhere. The TiVo software will let you set the WEP key.


great. thank you.


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## mdreuben

Received it yesterday and plugged it in. The TIVO imediately recognized that it was there and notified me to start the setup process. Less than five minutes later it was up on running on my WEP protected network. The system update was many times faster then using the dialup connection.

Now if only there was TIVO To Go for the Mac...

sigh


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## 2004raptor

mdreuben said:


> Received it yesterday and plugged it in.


Would you mind me asking how long it took you to get the adapter from order to doorstep?


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## classicsat

djhansensr said:


> The big question is:
> 
> Would the adaptor have the support already built in for WPA? I'm debating on whether or not to return the new adaptor, or hold onto it until WPA is supported.


No. WPA for this adapter is dependant on the TiVo itself supporting WPA, the same as with all other USB Wi-Fi adapters.


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## mdreuben

2004raptor said:


> Would you mind me asking how long it took you to get the adapter from order to doorstep?


Less than three days


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## bivs

what about transfers. do you notice a difference in trasfer speed between tivo to pc and tivo to tivo.


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## xStainDx

TiVoJerry said:


> The full MAC architecture of the TiVo Wireless G adapter does indeed offload work from the CPU of your TiVo box, which in theory can result in an increase in networking throughput. In real-world use, wireless throughput depends on your network environment, what other processes are running on your TiVo box, and a host of other factors. Some users will see a noticeable improvement in wireless throughput for the TiVo adapter compared to other wireless adapters, and others will not.
> 
> With regard to WPA, at this time the TiVo Wireless G adapter does not support WPA, and supports WEP only. We are aware of our customers desire for WPA, and are investigating WPA implementation for a future software release.


TiVo How about you stop making Mindless Related Wireless Products and Give us the one thing we keep asking for is NATIVE WPA support on TiVo for all 802.11g compatible wireless adapters. This is way more important than selling another wireless adapter for TiVo.

I shouldn't have to buy a wired bridge to use WPA on my TiVo Box. You realize the only reason I haven't used Wireless on TiVo is because of WEP. My entire home network uses WPA and I refuse to drop security for my whole network to WEP just for TiVo.

Lets be honest here you are the only company left on earth of the big wigs that doesn't support it yet and yet I pay TiVo a monthly fee to use your services. I pay Microsoft for my Operating System one time and I get a SP2 with WPA2. I mean I pay tivo every month and I can't even get the first version of WPA.

Your special "MAC Architecture" just sounds like marketing, in what reasoning do I need a special Wireless Adapter? What special bandwidth am I transfering to my Tivo that any 802.11g Adapter ca't do?

Please stop this already. Not having WPA is my only gripe about TiVo. Everything else is awesome.


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## audiocrawford

xStainDx said:


> Your special "MAC Architecture" just sounds like marketing, in what reasoning do I need a special Wireless Adapter? What special bandwidth am I transfering to my Tivo that any 802.11g Adapter ca't do?


TiVo is a Linux based machine.

AC


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## xStainDx

audiocrawford said:


> TiVo is a Linux based machine.
> 
> AC


yeah and you're point is? 

your answer to me is like saying "The color of the sky is what?" and I say Blue. (like i didn't already know this) point being just because tivo is linux has nothing to do with this TiVo Branded Wireless Adapter.


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## 2004raptor

mdreuben said:


> Less than three days


good to know. I called tivo and they said it should be here within 7 days. They said they can't provide any tracking on it though.


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## EwanG

xStainDx said:


> Please stop this already. Not having WPA is my only gripe about TiVo. Everything else is awesome.


As I've said before (and you can confirm yourself with a quick google of WPA and Hack), there is no more protection afforded by WPA than there is for WEP. So why ask TiVo to waste time on this rather than things which will more actively contribute to their bottom line, and give us more capabilities for the unit?

Just my .02 worth,
Ewan


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## stevel

The problem with retail adapters is that the manufacturers keep changing chipsets in these. It's no problem for Windows users, as the company includes Windows drivers for the new chipset with the adapter. That doesn't help TiVo, which has to figure out which chipset is used and write or port new drivers for it. What's worse is that the manufacturers make these running changes without changing the model number.

TiVo has taken the right approach by designing and selling (for a competitive price) a wireless adapter that not only works with TiVo, but performs better for TiVo than most retail products. It would be best if they could get these into stores that sell TiVos - perhaps they will.


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## audiocrawford

xStainDx said:


> yeah and you're point is?
> 
> your answer to me is like saying "The color of the sky is what?" and I say Blue. (like i didn't already know this) point being just because tivo is linux has nothing to do with this TiVo Branded Wireless Adapter.


I'm sorry, but since you made assumptions about the MAC architecture being "marketing" and other declarative statements, I assumed you at least had a working knowledge of what is being discussed. I'm not a techie, but this is what I understand of the situation.

The reason there are such compatability issues out there with wireless adapters is because the TiVo is based on the Linux operating system. Most computer accessories are made for either Windows or Mac machines. By being able to control the MAC architecture themselves, TiVo is no longer at the mercy of other companies changing their adapters and making them incompatable when they were compatable at one point (this is why certain firmware revisions are specified on some adapter models).

This is the same problem the XBOX has. And you really can't get much bigger of a corporation than Microsoft, can you? The XBOX has built-in ethernet, but it is just as much of a nightmare to find a router that works with it as it is to find a compatable adapter for a TiVo. This is not a problem unique to TiVo.

Hope this helps clarify, or perhaps someone with more technical knowledge can help [edit: stevel did so very well above) . Or, you could check previous discussions of wireless compatability, I believe TiVo reps have discussed this at length before.

AC


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## MickeS

> My entire home network uses WPA and I refuse to drop security for my whole network to WEP just for TiVo.


I agree that TiVo should support WPA, but if there is a simple solution to a problem you have (and there is, you mention the wireless bridge yourself), why not USE that solution, rather than complain that it's not the right solution for everyone?


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## ZeoTiVo

xStainDx said:


> yeah and you're point is?
> 
> your answer to me is like saying "The color of the sky is what?" and I say Blue. (like i didn't already know this) point being just because tivo is linux has nothing to do with this TiVo Branded Wireless Adapter.


yep, the point is they need an adpater that is not changing all the time. with their own adapter thay can change as needed for the good of TiVo. Maybe TiVo will provide WPA for this adpater and not for others? I have no idea though.

I do know I would not count on just wireless hardware security mechanisms though if I thought I had soemthing on my home network that needed that much protection to begin with. Excuse me I have to go check the SUV parked outside with a guy typing on his laptop.


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## gtrogue

audiocrawford said:


> This is the same problem the XBOX has. And you really can't get much bigger of a corporation than Microsoft, can you? The XBOX has built-in ethernet, but it is just as much of a nightmare to find a router that works with it as it is to find a compatable adapter for a TiVo. This is not a problem unique to TiVo.
> 
> AC


The XBox doesn't have the same problem. Xbox Live is the reason finding a suitable router is necessary. The XBox itself uses standard protocols over Ethernet just like a PC. It's the way data traffic is handled by XBox Live and controlled by the router that makes some routers less desirable for use with the XBox. The same problems can occur when playing online PC games.

If Tivo had put a NIC in the box it would work for everybody and Tivo would only have to include support for a single chipset until they decided to change it in future hardware versions. Of all the boneheaded things Tivo has done, not including a NIC, when they were basing all the boxes future advanced features around networking, is the most boneheaded.

If they had to leave something out it should have been the USB ports. Since they are never going to allow the USB connections to be used for external expansion there isn't any need to have them if they had included an Ethernet connection.


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## NotVeryWitty

EwanG said:


> As I've said before (and you can confirm yourself with a quick google of WPA and Hack), there is no more protection afforded by WPA than there is for WEP. So why ask TiVo to waste time on this rather than things which will more actively contribute to their bottom line, and give us more capabilities for the unit?
> 
> Just my .02 worth,
> Ewan


The only WPA cracks I have been able to find rely on brute-force techniques, and thus only work on poorly-chosen short keys. The best front-door lock in the world can be opened easily if you leave the key under the mat on the front porch.

On the other hand, WEP can usually be cracked relatively quickly using easily-obtained tools, no matter how good the key is.

For those people who know how to choose a proper key, the claim that WPA does not provide any more protection than WEP is just plain false. I challenge you to provide a source that proves otherwise.


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## audiocrawford

gtrogue said:


> The XBox doesn't have the same problem. Xbox Live is the reason finding a suitable router is necessary. The XBox itself uses standard protocols over Ethernet just like a PC. It's the way data traffic is handled by XBox Live and controlled by the router that makes some routers less desirable for use with the XBox. The same problems can occur when playing online PC games.


That's really interesting. I didn't realize that the problem was with XBoxLive.



gtrogue said:


> If Tivo had put a NIC in the box it would work for everybody and Tivo would only have to include support for a single chipset until they decided to change it in future hardware versions. Of all the boneheaded things Tivo has done, not including a NIC, when they were basing all the boxes future advanced features around networking, is the most boneheaded.
> 
> If they had to leave something out it should have been the USB ports. Since they are never going to allow the USB connections to be used for external expansion there isn't any need to have them if they had included an Ethernet connection.


Unquestionably agreed. However, you can't unring a bell, so releasing their own adapter was the best decision at this time. Now I'm just hoping for a wired version...

AC


----------



## EwanG

NotVeryWitty said:


> I challenge you to provide a source that proves otherwise.


Two for your consideration:
http://wifinetnews.com/archives/004428.html which also references the fact that the Mac-based Kismet has a more sophisticated WPA hacking tool built-in.

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=369221&rl=1 which gives a step-by-step of how to crack WPA for fun and amusement.

FWIW,
Ewan


----------



## rainwater

EwanG said:


> Two for your consideration:
> http://wifinetnews.com/archives/004428.html which also references the fact that the Mac-based Kismet has a more sophisticated WPA hacking tool built-in.
> 
> http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=369221&rl=1 which gives a step-by-step of how to crack WPA for fun and amusement.
> 
> FWIW,
> Ewan


I believe the last article is the one Steve Gibson talked about in a recent episode of Security Now! He made is clear that the article was very slanted and was not true. I suggest you listen to some of the episodes that deal with WPA and you will see that those articles are not true as long as you have a good password (try this one).


----------



## stevel

A built-in Ethernet port would not get you wireless. You'd still have to buy a wireless bridge, and they cost much more than a wireless USB adapter.


----------



## gtrogue

stevel said:


> A built-in Ethernet port would not get you wireless. You'd still have to buy a wireless bridge, and they cost much more than a wireless USB adapter.


You are right about the cost. A wireless bridge can cost around $100, less if you buy used. However, any wireless bridge you buy today or two years from now will/would work without any intervention on Tivo's part.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

rainwater said:


> I believe the last article is the one Steve Gibson talked about in a recent episode of Security Now! He made is clear that the article was very slanted and was not true. I suggest you listen to some of the episodes that deal with WPA and you will see that those articles are not true as long as you have a good password (try this one).


actually the first article EwanG linked was all about using the long and random pass phrases to make sure WPA is secure. My take on it is that for now that works but the day will come when WPA has some ***** found in it.

the most secure protection is to go around the perimeter of your WiFi and make sure the signal does not reach places where someone could inconspicuously try and break in.

personally I still use a wired network with a cable I can pull onto my back porch. I have very little on it worth any extreme measure and I worry a lot more about trojan and spyware vs somone tapping into my home network.

I vote for TiVo spending very little time on WPA and those that really worry about it can use the methods in The ultimate wireless network thread  to use a wireless bridge and do all the security they want. the thread is 20 pages long but I imagine the last 5 pages will be all you need if that


----------



## xStainDx

stevel said:


> TiVo has taken the right approach by designing and selling (for a competitive price) a wireless adapter that not only works with TiVo, but performs better for TiVo than most retail products.


Got any proof? Just because TiVo says its better does not mean that it actually is. Even if it is does it even matter? You're downloading most of the time TiVo Information. Any 802.11g adapter that you can use TiVo already is suitable.



stevel said:


> A built-in Ethernet port would not get you wireless. You'd still have to buy a wireless bridge, and they cost much more than a wireless USB adapter.


Which is one of the main reasons why I'd like TiVo to get on the Ball with WPA. :up:


----------



## xStainDx

MickeS said:


> I agree that TiVo should support WPA, but if there is a simple solution to a problem you have (and there is, you mention the wireless bridge yourself), why not USE that solution, rather than complain that it's not the right solution for everyone?


That Solution is not cheap. What you're telling me is go out and buy a $79.00 Bridge. No Thanks.

For the time being I'll use my $8.00 50 foot Ethernet wire and run it through my wall to my router.


----------



## MickeS

I didn't say it was cheap, I said it's a solution. I didn't see you mention anything about the cost. It'll probably cost you about $50 more to get WPA in your TiVo-included wireless network, than it would using a WEP USB-adapter.


----------



## davezatz

xStainDx said:


> Got any proof? Just because TiVo says its better does not mean that it actually is.


Do you have any proof it's not better? In my experience both TiVoPony and TiVoJerry are stand-up kind of guys who I choose to believe. The Broadcom chip documentation also suggests it's more efficient. But maybe we shouldn't believe them either.

From what I've read it seems like the TiVo adapter has taken over some of the WiFi processing that has typically been handled by the overtaxed TiVo CPU - this should improve performance. To what level, who knows... we'll find out soon enough though. For TiVo to sell a custom adapter at $50 they probably aren't making any money on it, so that's not the motivation either. At the very least, one can feel more confident the adapter will remain supported compared to TiVo's fluctuating list.

For me, the next evolutionary step would be TiVos, Slingboxes, etc to offer builtin WiFi (and WPA). If the PSP can do it, these other guys can too.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

EwanG said:


> Two for your consideration:
> http://wifinetnews.com/archives/004428.html which also references the fact that the Mac-based Kismet has a more sophisticated WPA hacking tool built-in.
> 
> http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=369221&rl=1 which gives a step-by-step of how to crack WPA for fun and amusement.
> 
> FWIW,
> Ewan


Good try, worth about $.02. 

Those articles claim WPA is easier to crack than WEP, but conveniently ignore the fact that it's only easier when a short word-based passphrase is selected. I'm not arguing that WPA is perfect, but it's so much better than WEP that it's foolish not to use it -- that is, unless you have Tivo... 

I stand by my previous statement:


> For those people who know how to choose a proper key, the claim that WPA does not provide any more protection than WEP is just plain false. I challenge you to provide a source that proves otherwise.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

ZeoTiVo said:


> the most secure protection is to go around the perimeter of your WiFi and make sure the signal does not reach places where someone could inconspicuously try and break in.


Much easier said than done for most of us. What do you suggest, a 20-foot solid lead fence around the property? 



ZeoTiVo said:


> personally I still use a wired network with a cable I can pull onto my back porch. I have very little on it worth any extreme measure and I worry a lot more about trojan and spyware vs somone tapping into my home network.


I also worry more about trojan horses and spyware than someone tapping into my network. However, that doesn't mean I want to run my wireless network unprotected.



ZeoTiVo said:


> I vote for TiVo spending very little time on WPA and those that really worry about it can use the methods in The ultimate wireless network thread  to use a wireless bridge and do all the security they want. the thread is 20 pages long but I imagine the last 5 pages will be all you need if that


Would you vote for Tivo to drop support for *all* wireless adapters (including their own), and force everyone to use this expensive approach?


----------



## stevel

I have a report from someone with this adapter who says the performance is significantly better than with a commercial Wireless-G adapter. Apparently the TiVo adapter does some of the processing that the driver would otherwise have to do.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

NotVeryWitty said:


> Much easier said than done for most of us. What do you suggest, a 20-foot solid lead fence around the property?


 no, but some tweaking of the antennas and their placement can keep signals from going where you do not want them.



> I also worry more about trojan horses and spyware than someone tapping into my network. However, that doesn't mean I want to run my wireless network unprotected.


 good point, but seriously again, who is going to be creeping around your house/yard looking for that wireless entry.



> Would you vote for Tivo to drop support for *all* wireless adapters (including their own), and force everyone to use this expensive approach?


 no, and I never said that. I simply gave a vote for putting WPA on a back burner. 
I further stated that if TiVo is not providing WPA, then that subset that wanted it could use these methods to get it and have better wireless througput as well. Sure it costs a bit more but if WPA is that important then the extra cost should be worth it (though in the thread, some have made it work well with very cheap adapters they turned into bridges)


----------



## audiocrawford

stevel said:


> I have a report from someone with this adapter who says the performance is significantly better than with a commercial Wireless-G adapter. Apparently the TiVo adapter does some of the processing that the driver would otherwise have to do.


Then my resolve to pray to the TiVo God's for a wired version is duly renewed!

AC


----------



## rainwater

audiocrawford said:


> Then my resolve to pray to the TiVo God's for a wired version is duly renewed!
> 
> AC


I don't think a wired version created by TiVo could do much more than a supported wired version. There is already less overhead when you are doing wired anyways. I'm not sure what more could be accomplished in that area.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

ZeoTiVo said:


> good point, but seriously again, who is going to be creeping around your house/yard looking for that wireless entry.


Well, I can "see" four other networks from my house, and I suspect they can all see my network too. Including the teens across the street who my wife refers to as the Menendez brothers. No "creeping around" required... 



ZeoTiVo said:


> no, and I never said that. I simply gave a vote for putting WPA on a back burner.
> I further stated that if TiVo is not providing WPA, then that subset that wanted it could use these methods to get it and have better wireless througput as well. Sure it costs a bit more but if WPA is that important then the extra cost should be worth it (though in the thread, some have made it work well with very cheap adapters they turned into bridges)


I know you didn't say that. But, with all due respect, you sometimes really do sound like a Tivo apologist when you defend Tivo's lack of action on some feature. I know you'll disagree, but I'm just stating how it sounds from here.

FWIW, a few months ago I had just about convinced a colleague at work to return his cable company DVRs and buy two Tivos that he could network together. Unfortunately, he wanted to use wireless on each of them, and when I told him he would have to disable the WPA security on his entire network, or pay for *both* a wired USB adapter *and* a wireless bridge for each Tivo, he laughed at me and said never mind. Maybe that was an isolated incident, but I don't think so. Also makes me wonder how many of the dozen or so returned Tivos I saw stacked up at Best Buy last week were because of lack of WPA support.


----------



## rainwater

TiVo has recently said that WPA is coming. Correct me if I am mistaken?


----------



## BostonBob

Look at the tread "TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo > Ulitmate Wireless Network." I spent most of the day yesterday digesting it. I also read most of this thread.

Santa gave me a new TiVo for Christmas. I purchased the latest NetGear RangeMax wireless router and USB adapter hoping to introduce a wireless network to my home and hook up my TiVo at the same time. That was before doing research. I was shattered by what I found out on the "Ultimate" forum. My conclusion ... TiVo is way behind. Forget using anything close to "current" technology. If I'd known all of this before asking Santa for a TiVo box, I probably would have left it off the list. Until 802.11g is implemented with USB 2.0 and WPA, networking the TiVo is too risky and too slow. I won't go there. Having it networked was one of the features I was really looking forward to. Now I have to run a phone cord the length of my living room and in front of my fireplace?!?!

I hope this isn't too far off topic. I applaud TiVo for introducing a "G" adapter. But for me it's worthless with the USB 1.1 thoughput limitations and WEP security risks. You'd think that implementing USB 2.0 would be at the top of the list...what an incredible improvement to already capable hardware (acknowledging there may be processing limitations impacting full bandwidth). Now that TiVo has their "G" adapter out, hopefully they'll follow on with the other missing pieces soon. For a company on the financial brink, it seems like plugging this hole might really help sales to those of us interested in networked multimedia solutions.


----------



## rainwater

BostonBob said:


> I hope this isn't too far off topic. I applaud TiVo for introducing a "G" adapter. But for me it's worthless with the USB 1.1 thoughput limitations and WEP security risks. You'd think that implementing USB 2.0 would be at the top of the list...what an incredible improvement to already capable hardware (acknowledging there may be processing limitations impacting full bandwidth). Now that TiVo has their "G" adapter out, hopefully they'll follow on with the other missing pieces soon. For a company on the financial brink, it seems like plugging this hole might really help sales to those of us interested in networked multimedia solutions.


Just to clear up some mistakes. TiVo does support USB 2.0 on TiVos 240x and newer. Old versions of the TiVo software didn't have 2.0 support, but the latest versions have for a while now.

Also, you can use WPA with TiVo if you use a wired usb adapter to ethernet bridge. Certainly, its not the most practical cost-wise, but it is an option if you want more security.


----------



## megazone

Series2 models starting with 110/130/140 have USB1.1 hardware, all other Series2 units have USB2.0 hardware. And USB2.0 drivers are in the software 7.x and up - which is all Series2 untis now.


----------



## davezatz

xStainDx said:


> Got any proof? Just because TiVo says its better does not mean that it actually is.


OK, add me to the list of people not to believe. The adapter is SIGNIFICANTLY quicker than the Netgear WG111 on my home network. I'm going to work up some metrics and a graph, or something similarly geeky, and post it to my page in the next day or so. As sooon as I pull myself away from all these CES announcements (new Forerunner 205 sure looks sexy).


----------



## TivoZorro

For those of you interested in the shipping time. I ordered my Tivo Wireless G Adapter last Thursday Dec. the 29th. in the afternoon. The tracking shows that it is on the FedEx vehicle for delivery. It was shipped out of Irving, Texas and I live in NC. So hopefully by later today my Tivo will be getting it's updates over broadband and transfering shows to my laptop. Can't wait!


----------



## MickeS

> makes me wonder how many of the dozen or so returned Tivos I saw stacked up at Best Buy last week were because of lack of WPA support


I'm pretty sure the answer is "none"... 

Now, how many were returned because the in-the-box software didn't support network guided setup, that's another matter...


----------



## PThor

davezatz said:


> OK, add me to the list of people not to believe. The adapter is SIGNIFICANTLY quicker than the Netgear WG111 on my home network. I'm going to work up some metrics and a graph, or something similarly geeky, and post it to my page in the next day or so. As sooon as I pull myself away from all these CES announcements (new Forerunner 205 sure looks sexy).


I'm hoping someone would be the first to post some real world numbers with the new adapter.

BTW - Please post what you get with your old adapter as well.

Thanks!
Paul


----------



## ZeoTiVo

NotVeryWitty said:


> Well, I can "see" four other networks from my house, and I suspect they can all see my network too. Including the teens across the street who my wife refers to as the Menendez brothers. No "creeping around" required...


 that is where you need to go outside and check where your signal is. The best defense for across the street is to just make sure the signal does not get there by antenna placement etc.. those brothers may well be reading deeper hacking sites on how to break WPA and trying it out on WPA networks they see.



> I know you didn't say that. But, with all due respect, you sometimes really do sound like a Tivo apologist when you defend Tivo's lack of action on some feature. I know you'll disagree, but I'm just stating how it sounds from here.


 well I sound like I sound but it truly comes from my business perception of what TiVo is doing. I do tend to see things from a TiVo inc. perspective in the sense of resources to do WPA vs the ROI on it and of course it is from a very high, vauge level since I have no access to actual business data that TiVo, inc would have so I can see it comes across that way but it really is not where I come from at all. If replay had suddenly put out a dual tuner box with built in wireless G with WPA support and fast video extraction to portable devices I would not be posting here much  


> or pay for *both* a wired USB adapter *and* a wireless bridge for each Tivo, he laughed at me and said never mind.


 the irony is that if TiVo had an ethernet port along with USB ports those wanting WPA would get a wireless bridge for the ethernet port and this would all be moot. Be interesting to see how the new CC TiVo will look on this issue


----------



## colforbin13

Anyone know if there are plans of adding this to the TiVo rewards program offerings? I was saving some points for an iPod, but I got one for Christmas, then I figured I'd get the wireless adapter up there, but went and noticed it has disappeared. I'm currently using an unsupported adapter, and transfer times are brutally slow. If they're going to put it on the rewards page, I'd gladly wait till it showed up. Otherwise, I'm quite interested in how much this will speed up my transfer rates, and might be interested in purchasing it.


----------



## TivoZorro

I set up the Tivo adapter last night. I transfered a 30 minute show in 16 minutes to my laptop. A 1 hour show transfered in 20 minutes and the next 1 hour show transfered in 26 minutes. 

One piece of advice do not make a test connection to the Tivo Service. I did so after I set up the adapter and when I tried to schedule a recording from Tivo Central this morning it couldn't find my channel line-up. When I talked to Customer Service a very nice rep told me that when you do a test connection it resets your cable line-up. So she had me make a connection over my network to the Tivo Service (which by the way was lightning fast) and then I let it download and index and after two to three hours I was able to schedule a recording on Tivo Central Online.


----------



## davezatz

TivoZorro said:


> I set up the Tivo adapter last night. I transfered a 30 minute show in 16 minutes to my laptop. A 1 hour show transfered in 20 minutes and the next 1 hour show transfered in 26 minutes.


I was actually scared to post my results since they're so radical... are you downloading shows in half the time (compared to my Netgear WG111) like I am??


----------



## TivoZorro

davezatz said:


> I was actually scared to post my results since they're so radical... are you downloading shows in half the time (compared to my Netgear WG111) like I am??


This was the first adapter I have had connected to my Tivo so I don't have anything to compare it to. When I tallked to the Tivo rep this morning about Tivo Central Online I told her the download times I was seeing and how fast it was and she indicated that people using "other" adapters were seeing a download time of 2 hours for a 1 hour show and that the Tivo adapter was faster.

I rechecked the time on my 30 minute program and it downloaded in 14 minutes. All of the programs I did were in basic quality. I don't know if it makes any difference but my router is in the downstairs office, my Tivo is in my upstairs bedroom and my laptop is on an end table very close to where the Tivo is positioned. When the computer guy set up the network he indicated that I would be able to surf the Internet while relaxing in bed without a problem.

I too was kind of scared to post the numbers.


----------



## 2004raptor

Prozium said:


> An 802.11g or 802.11b wireless adapter will work on any 802.11g or 802.11b router (assuming you have the router setup to accept connections from both B & G devices. There are performance modes where an 802.11g router won't accept connections from 802.11b devices.) Although it will only run at the speed of the slowest device connected.


Just a small update on this. My brother, who also has a tivo and no wireless adapter yet, called tivo and they told him the wireless *g* adapter will not work with his wireless *b* network. Like I opinted out earlier, their site even says it willwork with *b* networks so this leaveds me more confused.
I ordered a wireless G for my tivo (wish they could give me a tracking #) and I will test it on his network as well.
Should it just automatically recognize the adapter and display that somewhere in the settings or sys info? 
Lastly, does anyone here actually have a wireless B router working with the tivo brand or any other wireless G adapter?


----------



## DCIFRTHS

davezatz said:


> I was actually scared to post my results since they're so radical... are you downloading shows in half the time (compared to my Netgear WG111) like I am??


Please post the numbers. We'll believe you


----------



## davezatz

DCIFRTHS said:


> Please post the numbers. We'll believe you


Well unofficially, between just us here on the forum, I've been testing transfers from my most remote TiVo to my PC. PC has a Netgear WG111 adapter and the network has that most common Linksys G router.

I've tried transfers of 1054MB (1, 30 minute show) and numerous 100MB transfers. and the TiVo wireless adapter is much faster than the WG111 I used to use. Vaguely let me say the 100MB transfers average about 5 mins with the new adapter versus over 10 for the Netgear (100%+ faster). I want to do some testing on one of my other boxes for comparison and I'm also going to test versus a B version of that Netgear adapter. I won't be able to do accurate MRV testing since I only have one TiVo adapter.

Like TiVoJerry said there are so many factors which can influence the performance improvements we might see I worry about making such dramatic claims. I also have a Dlink adapter arround here somewhere I may throw into the mix for testing.


----------



## cptodd

2004raptor said:


> Just a small update on this. My brother, who also has a tivo and no wireless adapter yet, called tivo and they told him the wireless *g* adapter will not work with his wireless *b* network. Like I opinted out earlier, their site even says it willwork with *b* networks so this leaveds me more confused.
> I ordered a wireless G for my tivo (wish they could give me a tracking #) and I will test it on his network as well.
> Should it just automatically recognize the adapter and display that somewhere in the settings or sys info?
> Lastly, does anyone here actually have a wireless B router working with the tivo brand or any other wireless G adapter?


You know I was goin got post that a G adapter will not work with a B router but now I am not so sure. I do know that G routers have to be set to B/G mode to recieve and send signals to B adapters. I wonder if it works in reverse (G adapter and B router).


----------



## stevel

G adapters are supposed to also support B.


----------



## MickeS

G adapters work fine with B network. Of course, they'll only get b speed.


----------



## seloewy

I'm reading this thread the day after my 2nd Tivo has arrived. It's gift for hubby who wants to watch some of our shows upstairs, while kids have the family room TV.

I vaguely understand the principles between the Tivo wireless adapter performing some of the processing in its own chip. Question is, if I hook my Tivo's up to my home's wireless network through our 802.1B router, will I see any benefit? My gut says yes, since it seems like the issue is processor lag, not i/o speed. At this point, I'm only interested in transferring contact from tivo to tivo, not doing any T2Go, but that may follow.

Can I watch a show stored on the downstairs tivo on the upstairs machine without having to complete the transfer of the content (like streaming?). Will I be able to use all of the features on my remote - to skip commercials, let's say - when I watch the show upstairs?

(contrary to some of the questions regarding backward compatability, I'm pretty sure that the router will support a "g" card, just will max it out at "b" speeds)... and of course, I understand that speed will depend on other network traffic, connection signal, etc...

I'm really new to this, so forgive me if I've posted in the wrong place or phrased my question inappropriately. thanks in advance!


----------



## PThor

[email protected],

You can watch a show as it is transfering from one Tivo to the other. However, since the transfer speed is often a little slower than the playback speed (certainly with the regular off-the-shelf wireless adapters, the new Tivo branded adapter remains to be seen) you need to give the transfer a headstart.

When you play back a show you can fast forward (as far as the show has been transfered), rewind, pause, etc. from your remote. When I do this I start the transfer, go get something to drink, visit the restroom, etc. before I come back and start watching.

Putting your Tivo's on wireless will also give you additional benefits if your wireless network has internet access that includes downloading directory updates over the internet rather than through your phone lines, Home Media options such as playing music and displaying photos from a PC, faster updating through online Tivo programming, new access to radio stations and podcasts, displaying weather forecasts and traffic conditions, etc.

My 2-cents is to go for it.

Paul


----------



## classicsat

BostonBob said:


> Santa gave me a new TiVo for Christmas. I purchased the latest NetGear RangeMax wireless router and USB adapter hoping to introduce a wireless network to my home and hook up my TiVo at the same time. That was before doing research.


Your first mistake. You should have researched what adapters work.



> I was shattered by what I found out on the "Ultimate" forum. My conclusion ... TiVo is way behind. Forget using anything close to "current" technology.


Them being behind is not totally their fault, you can blame the adapter companies for not sticking to a design for a particular produce, and not leting at least the buyer immediately know the change.
Yes, they are behing on supporting WPA.



> You'd think that implementing USB 2.0 would be at the top of the list.


The 2xx and 5xx DVRs have 2.0 ports and drivers. It is just that the CPU in the DVR can do only so much to feed those ports. Kudos to them for including the 1xx DVRs in support for their adapter, even though it is fixed at USB1.1


----------



## su719

I have a Sony SVR-3000 which seems to be the older 110 series. I currently have a WG111 working on this machine. Will the Tivo adapter offer an increase in speed considering this G adapter is not really supposed to work with my setup?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

MickeS said:


> DCIFRTHS,
> you can go the bridge route, then you can get a wireless tivo with WPA.
> I bought a refurbished WPA-enabled 802.11g bridge and a used USB-ethernet adapter for about what this new TiVo adapter costs.
> 
> /Mike


What brand and model bridge are you (or others) using? I might go this route, though I do like the looks of this adapter.


----------



## 2004raptor

Just got mine in. Looks pretty neat. I already have a question or two.
i have a one hour recording that I am trying to transfer to my desktop pc. It was recorded in High Quality and I think I saw where it was 1.6GB.
The transfer through tivo desktop shows 1 hr. and 3 minutes for the transfer. Does that sound about right?


BTW network configuration Desktop pc is conncted to wired router which is connected to Linksys wireless G w/speedbooster. Tivo Wirelss g is (of course) connected to above mentioend linksys.

Side Note- How can I tell the actual size of the file while browsing the tivo? I know I saw it somewhere, just can't remember


----------



## TiVoJerry

JamieP said:


> TiVoJerry:
> 
> The usb-cdc.o kernel module used by this new adapter appears to be licensed under the GPL: the module metadata in the object file shows "license=GPL". I'd like to request the source for this module under the terms of the GPL It does not seem to be available from www.tivo.com/linux.


A quick "hello" from CES. I don't have much time to sit down and access the forums, but I wanted to let you know that I received an answer on the above quoted question. It turns out that the "license=GPL" metadata was inserted during development to clear up clutter on the debug screen, and then we forgot to remove it before shipping. To the best of our knowledge, there is no GPL code in the driver. We are therefore not licensing the module under the GPL. We will be removing that line in the next release to avoid confusion.

I apologize if I've missed any other questions that are discussed in this thread. I hope to play catch up next week but expect to be behind for awhile longer.


----------



## jhwpbm

I was using a Linksys 802.11b before. On my last download (to my laptop) got about 391kbps throughput (looked at the log). With the new TiVo 802.11g adapter, am currently downloading at 738kbps, a not inconsiderable ~90% increase. This is on a 140x model, so it may be that the USB 1.x port is the limiting factor in keeping the throughput from going higher - in any case, I'm very pleased with the increase in speed with the 'g adapter. Thumbs up!


----------



## jstr

2004raptor said:


> Just got mine in. Looks pretty neat. I already have a question or two.
> i have a one hour recording that I am trying to transfer to my desktop pc. It was recorded in High Quality and I think I saw where it was 1.6GB.
> The transfer through tivo desktop shows 1 hr. and 3 minutes for the transfer. Does that sound about right?


That's much better than I'm getting through my Netgear WG111 adapter. For a 1.6GB file, my TiVo Desktop will normally report around 2 hours.

So far it seems that people are getting very good results with the TiVo adapter. I'm convinced that it's faster and I'm going to order one.


----------



## gtrogue

I just put mine in and noticed that the antenna is also quite good. I can see many more unsecure wireless networks around me through the Tivo than I can with my Powerbook with Airport and my PC laptop with Linksys PC Card adapter.

The things are also manufactured quite well and they feel substantial (not cheap). They come in nice packaging. Hopefully Tivo can get them into the retail chain, or even bundle them with the box.


----------



## tkbaker

MAC address is on the base of the adapter.
It truly was plug and play for me.
I plugged in the adapter, the TiVo software told me it had seen it and took me to where I needed to adress the settings.
I also bought the Broadband router thru TiVo (I thought the $10 premium was worth my being able to say "you sold it to me!" if it didn't work.)
Both Items worked flawlessly out of the box and there is a noticeble difference in network speed after upgrading to the "G" protocol.
The only "fly in the ointment" is the shipping and handling end of TiVo's operation and their notifications. It is way slow. I ordered the units on 12/28 with one day shipping, hoping to get it by the weekend. They arrived 1/6 and I'm sure the shipment notification by email arrived AFTER the package was delivered. Well, it was delivered by the weekend a week later.


----------



## gtrogue

Here's an update. 
I performed an impromptu experiment to test the speed of a Tivo to Tivo transfer using the G adapter.
Both Tivo's are connected with the Tivo adapters to a 802.11g router. The entire network uses only "G" hardware.
A 30 minute recording recorded at medium quality took about half realtime to transfer (approx. 15 minutes).
TTG is supposed to be where this adapter offers its greatest benefit so this number may be inline with other wifi adapters.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

gtrogue said:


> Here's an update.
> I performed an impromptu experiment to test the speed of a Tivo to Tivo transfer using the G adapter.
> Both Tivo's are connected with the Tivo adapters to a 802.11g router. The entire network uses only "G" hardware.
> A 30 minute recording recorded at medium quality took about half realtime to transfer (approx. 15 minutes).
> TTG is supposed to be where this adapter offers its greatest benefit so this number may be inline with other wifi adapters.


Are they 540 boxes?


----------



## gtrogue

DCIFRTHS said:


> Are they 540 boxes?


DRT400 & 540.


----------



## c monkey

I record lots of sports at best quality. I have the Netgear WG111 wireless adapter and it takes a one hour show at best quality about 1.5 to 2 hrs for a transfer. Does anyone know (or have any numbers to report) if the TiVo adapter will increase my speed times over the NETGEAR WG111 with shows at best quality. I record all my shows at best quality and would like to see if this new adapter will be beneficial for TTG at best quality.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I pulled the trigger on one of these. Maybe this one will reach my router from the kitchen so I don't have to lug a cable in there once a week.


----------



## davezatz

Now that the CES madness has died down, my results are in! I did a silly amount of testing using various data sizes, two adapters (WG111, MA111), and two TiVos (Humax Burner, TiVo 140HR). Generally speaking, *transfer rates for TTG were 60% faster*, though I saw spikes as much as 100%+. As TiVoJerry warned, though, your results WILL vary.

I posted some more details and am raffling off the adapter here:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-01/tivo-wireless-adapter-review-raffle/


----------



## TomRaz

The results of this adapter seem really good. Has anyone heard if they will offer this new adapter through the Tivo Rewards program ?


----------



## JamieP

TiVoJerry said:


> It turns out that the "license=GPL" metadata was inserted during development to clear up clutter on the debug screen, and then we forgot to remove it before shipping. To the best of our knowledge, there is no GPL code in the driver. We are therefore not licensing the module under the GPL. We will be removing that line in the next release to avoid confusion.


I expected as much.

I'm sure it was an honest mistake, but be aware that the linux kernel community has taken a dim view of companies that are dishonest in their MODULE_LICENSE to avoid tainted kernel warnings. See the "Being honest with MODULE_LICENSE" section here and many past discussions on the public linux kernel mailing list (e.g. this comment.) The situation is somewhat different on an embedded device such as the TiVo, but I still think MODULE_LICENSE is relevant and should be honest if TiVo wants to remain friendly with the linux kernel community.


----------



## garime

I just installed the TIVO adapter. I have a WRT54G Linksys wireless router on the 2nd floor of a large colonial. The TIVO is on the first floor at the other end of the house. The reception is between 15 & 21%. Any suggestions on how to help? Linksys suggests a high gain antenna kit or wireless G Range expander. What do you suggest. Gary


----------



## Larry in TN

garime said:


> I have a WRT54G Linksys wireless router on the 2nd floor of a large colonial. The TIVO is on the first floor at the other end of the house. The reception is between 15 & 21%. Any suggestions on how to help? Linksys suggests a high gain antenna kit or wireless G Range expander.


That's not a situation where wifi is going to work well. A general rule of thumb is that you can't expect good performance if the signal has to pass through more than two walls/floors. It's better if the signal path is at a right-angle to the wall/floor instead of at a shallow angle. Since you're going from one end of the house to the other, plus down a floor, you are probably well over two walls/floors.

If you can't run Cat5 between the two locations, or relocate the router to a more centralized location, you might be able to run a Cat five to the TiVo's side of the house on the 2nd floor (through the attic) then put a wireless access point on that end of the house. This would also give you better coverage for mobile computers in the house.

A range expander can also work but then you're still relying on wifi links. Anything you can do to shorten the wifi portions of the link will improve the reliability.


----------



## vitocorleone

I wonder if a router like the WRT54G (pre v5) could be programmed to perform the same functions as this new adapter....


----------



## rog

vitocorleone said:


> I wonder if a router like the WRT54G (pre v5) could be programmed to perform the same functions as this new adapter....


I would say that is highly unlikely. IIRC, the new adapter has a chipset designed to offload some of the TiVo's processing tasks. A WRT54G most likely does not share the same chipset.

But even if it is technically possible, it would be up to TiVo to offer the code, and as has been pointed out, the drivers for the new adapter aren't open source. I suppose there exists a remote chance that someone could reverse engineer the drivers, but again... unlikely.


----------



## JamieP

rog said:


> I would say that is highly unlikely. IIRC, the new adapter has a chipset designed to offload some of the TiVo's processing tasks. A WRT54G most likely does not share the same chipset.


Besides, the WRT54G is a router and has no USB port, as far as I know. How would you hook it up to the tivo? Perhaps with custom firmware it can be turned into a wired/wireless bridge device. As discussed elsewhere, using a wired usb dongle and a wired-to-wireless bridge has certain advantages (e.g. WPA).


----------



## thechiz

Anyone do any testing on comparing transfer speeds 
from the PC to TiVO ?

Would the extra processing that this adapter
does for TiVo-To-Go give any benefits going
the other way ?

With my current WG111 adapter I can transfer 
a 30 minute MPEG-2 (encoded at approx 5000 kbps)
in about 30 minutes.

I wonder how long it would take using the new adapter.


----------



## mdreuben

garime said:


> I just installed the TIVO adapter. I have a WRT54G Linksys wireless router on the 2nd floor of a large colonial. The TIVO is on the first floor at the other end of the house. The reception is between 15 & 21%. Any suggestions on how to help? Linksys suggests a high gain antenna kit or wireless G Range expander. What do you suggest. Gary


I can't post a URL since I haven't posted to the board five times yet (a rule I really don't understand the reason for) but go ENGADGET and search for Auragrid. That is a just announced system that expands your WIFI coverage using existing coax in your house.


----------



## Ladd Morse

mdreuben said:


> go ENGADGET and search for Auragrid. That is a just announced system that expands your WIFI coverage using existing coax in your house.


An interesting product, but wouldn't it be much less expensive to simply pick up a Linksys WRT54G on sale for the other side of the house?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Ladd Morse said:


> An interesting product, but wouldn't it be much less expensive to simply pick up a Linksys WRT54G on sale for the other side of the house?


Unless this router can also be configured as a bridge, no, it wouldn't work.


----------



## Ladd Morse

ThreeSoFar said:


> Unless this router can also be configured as a bridge, no, it wouldn't work.


I haven't done it personally, but I've read multiple reports and "how to's" of the WRT54G working just fine as a bridge.

I've seen WRT54Gs on sale with coupon/rebate for as low as $14, although $25-30 is a much more common price.


----------



## Shawn95GT

Out of the box, no the Linksys WRT54G / GS won't act as a bridge.

With custom firmware, these routers can do it. I'm also using Sveasoft firmware to do it. I call mine a bridge but technically it's a WDS link which also doubles as a wireless repeater on the far end.

If / when Tivo does implement WPA, I hope they support AES and/or TKIP and not just TKIP.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

Shawn95GT said:


> .... If / when Tivo does implement WPA, I hope they support AES and/or TKIP and not just TKIP.


Agreed.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Shawn95GT said:


> Out of the box, no the Linksys WRT54G / GS won't act as a bridge.
> 
> With custom firmware, these routers can do it. I'm also using Sveasoft firmware to do it. I call mine a bridge but technically it's a WDS link which also doubles as a wireless repeater on the far end.
> 
> If / when Tivo does implement WPA, I hope they support AES and/or TKIP and not just TKIP.


Firmware? Just a new image for the flash inside? Where do you get it?


----------



## 2004raptor

ThreeSoFar said:


> Firmware? Just a new image for the flash inside? Where do you get it?


Search google for sveasoft or try http://www.sveasoft.com/ .

I think it's just a "hacked" version of the original that unlocks several features.


----------



## DCIFRTHS

ThreeSoFar said:


> Firmware? Just a new image for the flash inside? Where do you get it?


Check out www.linksysinfo.org . They have information, and forums, on Linksys products and aftermarket firmware.


----------



## Shawn95GT

2004raptor said:


> Search google for sveasoft or try http://www.sveasoft.com/ .
> 
> I think it's just a "hacked" version of the original that unlocks several features.


The Sveasoft community probably prefers 'improved' .

Linksys released the Linux source and the aftermarket firmware developers just ran with it from there. There are several groups developing firmware for the Linksys WRT routers.

Sveasoft is a subscription service ($20/yr) for the latest builds / updates. If you are content with what you've got you don't have to keep up the subscription. I renewed my sub just because I can't help but tinker .


----------



## pudd

EwanG said:


> As I've said before (and you can confirm yourself with a quick google of WPA and Hack), there is no more protection afforded by WPA than there is for WEP. So why ask TiVo to waste time on this rather than things which will more actively contribute to their bottom line, and give us more capabilities for the unit?
> 
> Just my .02 worth,
> Ewan


Your .02 isn't even worth that. If you would read the article you would realize that WPA was not cracked. WPA is susceptible to dictionary attacks and brute force attacks, which most encryption is also susceptible to. This can be easily thwarted by using a strong random long passsword.

WEP was cracked, meaning that you do not need to use dictionary or brute force attacks to try to guess the password, the algorithm itself can be cracked. So no matter how long the password is it can be broken into.

Please stop speading incorrect information and half truths.

For those of you that use WPA and you are looking for a good long random password you can find one here http://www.grc.com/pass

As for Tivo, it sad that it takes them so long to add features and support that customers really long for.


----------



## jstr

pudd said:


> Your .02 isn't even worth that. If you would read the article you would realize that WPA was not cracked. WPA is susceptible to dictionary attacks and brute force attacks, which most encryption is also susceptible to. This can be easily thwarted by using a strong random long passsword.
> 
> WEP was cracked, meaning that you do not need to use dictionary or brute force attacks to try to guess the password, the algorithm itself can be cracked. So no matter how long the password is it can be broken into.
> 
> Please stop speading incorrect information and half truths.
> 
> For those of you that use WPA and you are looking for a good long random password you can find one here http://www.grc.com/pass
> 
> As for Tivo, it sad that it takes them so long to add features and support that customers really long for.


To add to your suggestion to WPA users to use a good long random password from the website you linked to, the same website also provides audio and text versions of the Security Now shows that the site's author, Steve Gibson, produces.

There are a couple of shows dedicated to WPA and how to use it correctly. Go to 
http://www.grc.com/SecurityNow.htm#21 and scroll down to episodes #13 and #14. Steve Gibson does an excellent job of describing security issues in terms that a layman can understand.

Also, for an explanation of why WEP and MAC address filtering can be easily cracked, then check out episode #11.


----------



## cheerdude

Another satisfied user - speed test

Using a Netgear WG111, a 30 minute Best show took about 70 minutes.
Using the TiVo Adapter, a 30 minute Best show took 40 minutes. :up:

Still having a playback issue... but that was occuring with the Netgear.


----------



## garime

Larry: Thanks for your reply. Several questions. 
1.What is a wireless access point? I can run a CAT5 to the same side of the house in the attic, but it will be two floors above the Tivo. 
2. If I get a second TIVO which would be in my bedroom-(about 75 ft away) & used the adapter to communicate to TIVO thru my network, could I switch the downstairs TIVO back to the telephone line? I don't need the two TIVO's to communicate to each other, I just want to know if I can use the wireless communication on one TIVO & the telephone connection on the other on the same account? Thanks again, Gary


----------



## garime

Did you receive my earlier today quick reply-I can't find it. One other question (besides the other two) - I believe when I set up the router on TIVO I probably selected "not sure" when asked if 80211 G or B, although everything is G. Could this cause the low reception & should I go back & reprogram it. The router may also be programmed for "both" if there was an option. Thanks, Gary


----------



## tivoknucklehead

I just bought 3 of these to go with my new Linksys SRX400 G router. the good news is my signal connections have gone from 70-80% to 92-96%. the bad news is transfers stop after one minute ! help !
I know they are working because I connect to the net just fine each day for the program guide, but transfers , forget it. Is it maybe my router than doesn't fully support these things?


update: I rebooted both Tivos and that seems to have fixed it, and how. The Tivos are 75 feet apart and transfers are going at 2x real time now, vs 1/3 x real time with my old B network. very happy camper here


----------



## bmb

Ok, I've read through this thread and I'm seeing bits and pieces of what I'm looking for, but not a very clear picture, so....

1. Does this new adapter with full chipset improve TTG, MRV, or both?

2. Is a wired network adapter (e.g. USB200M) always going to be faster then this Tivo wireless adapter, or does that full chipset on the Tivo wireless adapter do something that makes it faster then a wired adapter?

Thanks,
Brian


----------



## davezatz

bmb said:


> Ok, I've read through this thread and I'm seeing bits and pieces of what I'm looking for, but not a very clear picture, so....
> 1. Does this new adapter with full chipset improve TTG, MRV, or both?
> 2. Is a wired network adapter (e.g. USB200M) always going to be faster then this Tivo wireless adapter, or does that full chipset on the Tivo wireless adapter do something that makes it faster then a wired adapter?


1) Both - the wifi processing is being done on the chip rather than the TiVo's CPU for both tasks
2) Wired is most likely faster (my assumption), though we did see one report in this thread stating their wired vs. wireless speeds were similar (a wired connection is generally quicker and more consistant/reliable comapred to wireless)


----------



## CuriousMark

I did some of my own tests and thought I would share them. Your mileage may vary, so take these with the requisite grain of salt.

Nightlight TiVo (TSN 540) with two configurations. The first is a USB200M ver 1 adapter wired to a Belkin router configured as WDS bridge which is 45 feet and two walls from the belkin router that anchors my setup. The after configuration is with the TiVo branded wireless G adapter talking to the WDS after it was moved to a location 30 feet and two walls away, at the vertex of a triangle formed by the two TiVos and the router. The line between the Nightlight and router form the baseline of this wide flat triangle:

before, with USB200M = 288KB/s
after, with TiVo USB = 282KB/s
after, in standby = 364KB/s
after, paused live TV = 380KB/s
after, paused recording = 394KB/s

It appears that a USB200M is slightly faster, but not enough to matter in regular use. All tests were TiVoToGo transfers to TiVo desktop on a machine wired to the router.


Humax DRT-800 DVD burner TiVo (TSN 595) also in two configurations. The first is with a wireless B, USB1.1 adapter talking directly to the router which is about 20 feet and two walls away. The second is with the USB200M and WDS bridge that had previously been on the nightlight TiVo:

DWL-122 W/L B normal = 242KB/s (256KB/s)
USB200M & WDS normal = 265KB/s
USB200M in Standby mode = 278 KB/s
USB200M w/ live TV paused = 360KB/s
Usb200M w/ recording paused = 420KB/s

It appears that wireless B adapter is not nearly as big a drag as the WG111, based on reports earlier in the thread. I suspect the combination of USB2 and wireless G protocol support must be much harder to manage than 1.1 and B. 

I was surprised at how much difference pausing a recording made. It sped things up on this unit nearly 60%. This is a good trick to use if you are actively waiting for the transfer. 

All transfers from the Nightlight TiVo were Basic quality 30 minute recordings. All transfers from the Humax were medium quality 30 minute shows. All rates were based on the time for the entire show to transfer. Speedups and slowdowns during the transfer were visible. One transfer went to zero for about 2 minutes when the microwave was in use. The parenthetical transfer rate for the Humax with the DWL-122 is what it might have been had the microwave not been used. It is in parenthesis because it is estimated, I did not rerun the transfer.

I hope this helps people decide what upgrade makes sense for them.

CuriousMark


----------



## davezatz

CuriousMark said:


> I was surprised at how much difference pausing a recording made. It sped things up on this unit nearly 60%. This is a good trick to use if you are actively waiting for the transfer.


That is interesting... and news to me!

Though after 20 mins of pausing live TV it resumes playback. Hhow long does a recording stay paused before doing something else (if anything)?


----------



## gtrogue

davezatz said:


> Though after 20 mins of pausing live TV it resumes playback. Hhow long does a recording stay paused before doing something else (if anything)?


If you are watching a recording from the Now Playing list it will stay paused forever.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

gtrogue said:


> If you are watching a recording from the Now Playing list it will stay paused forever.


correct, and the pause of live TV un-pauses when the back end of the live buffer catches up to the paused point.

my off the cuff theory
perhaps by pausing things, you are telling the TiVo it can drop things cached in memory like menu screens adn so forth and thus more room to hold data being worked on for TTG


----------



## CuriousMark

ZeoTiVo said:


> my off the cuff theory
> perhaps by pausing things, you are telling the TiVo it can drop things cached in memory like menu screens and so forth and thus more room to hold data being worked on for TTG


Sounds plausible. Whatever it is, it is a usefull trick.

The effect may be smaller with different recording quality settings or with the TiVo actively recording, so there are more tests to run. Volunteers gratefully accepted. 

CuriousMark


----------



## NotVeryWitty

ZeoTiVo said:


> my off the cuff theory
> perhaps by pausing things, you are telling the TiVo it can drop things cached in memory like menu screens adn so forth and thus more room to hold data being worked on for TTG


Actually, I think it's just doing less disk I/O (since it's not having to read anything for playback), and that frees up CPU time and disk I/O bandwidth.


----------



## JamieP

Folks using "alternative" extraction methods have found that tuning a standalone tivo to a channel you don't receive improves extraction performance. This has the effect of stopping the live buffer, reducing some disk and memory bandwidth consumption. It might not have any effect on TTG, which tends to be CPU bound, but it could be worth a shot if you are trying to squeeze out a little more performance.


----------



## MickeS

CuriousMark, I'm shocked at the slow transfers you are getting, even using the USB200M... I get around 800-900 kb/s in my wireless network, and that's with the TiVo wired to my router, and then wireless from router to a wireless bridge connected to to PCs ethernet port. Distance is around the same as yours, it's two rooms inbetween, though open doors (but no line of sight).

I can't remember getting speeds as low as yours even when I was using a 11b USB adapter. Are you sure those numbers are correct?


----------



## davezatz

MickeS said:


> I can't remember getting speeds as low as yours even when I was using a 11b USB adapter. Are you sure those numbers are correct?


My transfer rates are similar using Galleon to measure. My units are KB per second as with CuriousMark, not kbps. I'm using a 140HR TiVo and a Humax Burner.


----------



## CuriousMark

MickeS said:


> I can't remember getting speeds as low as yours even when I was using a 11b USB adapter. Are you sure those numbers are correct?


These are unmodified 5XX model series 2's. From posts here and at the support forums, I think these rates are pretty typical. They are also similar to most of the number posted further up in this thread. Now the 2XX models are a good bit faster, but you don't find those in the stores these days. I am aware of one allstar who routinely gets 480 wired, I am sure he would get faster than that using the pausing and other speedup techniques.

What are your TiVo's stats, is it modified in any way, how did you test, and what if anything was the TiVo doing while you transferred?

CuriousMark


----------



## MickeS

I have a 230 model, so maybe that's part of the answer.... other than that, I haven't done any detailed testing, just observed the speed in Netlimiter on the PC as it's showing during transfer.

Which program do you use to measure the speed? I'm gonna have to do a little detailed testing, just out of curiosity.


----------



## CuriousMark

MickeS said:


> Which program do you use to measure the speed?


TiVo Desktop. I transfer a file timed with a stopwatch from when I click on transfer until when I see it say Done. I then read the file size and do the division. I also record the times at each 10% to get a feel for variability. It is interesting that times between 1% jumps would alternate longer and shorter, but times between 2% jumps would be quite stable unless wireless interference or some other issue gets in the way. But that is trivia. I don't trust reading a stream indication, it gives a point reading that may not reflect the true transfer time of the whole program.

CuriousMark


----------



## greg_burns

CuriousMark said:


> I was surprised at how much difference pausing a recording made. It sped things up on this unit nearly 60%. This is a good trick to use if you are actively waiting for the transfer.


I've read putting the Tivo into standby helps as well.


----------



## LordGoofy

I just got my two new TiVo Wireless G adaptors and WOW... these are well worth the money I paid for them. I switched from two Linksys WUSB11 to the new TiVo ones and my tranfers times have been cut by over 1/2. Takes me less then 15 minutes to transfer a 30 minutes show on best quality. Thanks TiVo for another great product.


----------



## garime

Would somebody be kind enough to reply to my messages 152 & 153. Thank you, Gary


----------



## rog

garime: I'll try to respond to your earlier posts.



garime said:


> 1. What is a wireless access point?
> 
> 2. If I get a second TIVO which would be in my bedroom-(about 75 ft away) & used the adapter to communicate to TIVO thru my network, could I switch the downstairs TIVO back to the telephone line? I don't need the two TIVO's to communicate to each other, I just want to know if I can use the wireless communication on one TIVO & the telephone connection on the other on the same account?


1. Dude, with a question like that you really should try a little Googling!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_access_point

2. Yes, you can switch one TiVo back to using the telephone line without effecting the other in any way. No worries.



garime said:


> One other question (besides the other two) - I believe when I set up the router on TIVO I probably selected "not sure" when asked if 80211 G or B, although everything is G. Could this cause the low reception & should I go back & reprogram it. The router may also be programmed for "both" if there was an option. Thanks, Gary


If you don't have any other wireless devices in your house, you might as well set your wireless router (or access-point) on "g only", then go back and re-run the network setup on the TiVo and tell it to use 11g. Using mixed mode (which allows 11b and 11g devices to interoperate on the same network) can decrease performance in some instances.


----------



## ufo4sale

I'm also here to report that the wireless G TiVo adapter is FASTER THEN THE WIRED USB200 M LINKSYS ADAPTER!!!  . It's so fast that i'm going to buy them for all my TiVo's. Thanks again TiVo. This is a must have for anyone who transfer shows between TiVo's all the time.


----------



## greg_burns

ufo4sale said:


> I'm also here to report that the wireless G TiVo adapter is FASTER THEN THE WIRED USB200 M LINKSYS ADAPTER!!!  . It's so fast that i'm going to buy them for all my TiVo's. Thanks again TiVo. This is a must have for anyone who transfer shows between TiVo's all the time.


Wow! Here are my test results from my wired USB200M. What kind of hard numbers are you seeing?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3121772&&#post3121772



greg_burns said:


> source video: 30 minute (~811MB) "high quality"
> 
> from 240 (v7.1b-01-2-240) via wired (USB200M)
> 25 minutes to transfer = 554KBps
> 
> from 540 (v7.1b-01-2-540) via wired (USB200M)
> 28 minutes to transfer = 495KBps
> 
> from 540 (v7.1b-01-2-540) across a WDS network via wired (USB200M)
> 35 minutes to transfer = 396KBps


Edit: why are my numbers so much higher than *CuriousMark*'s USB200M (posted above), but seem to fall in step with *akp*'s in the thread I linked to?


----------



## Impulses

Are you pausing or placing your TiVo in standby before transfering? Or using something besides TTG to transfer for that matter? greg_burns' numbers are similar to yours when he's paused a recording on his TiVo (basically telling it to focus on the transfer and nothing else).

Other than that I can't imagine why there would be a big discrepancy (given that you're comparing stable wired connections), the numbers with my wireless Linksys WUSB54G are about on par with other tests tho, like 185 KBps w/o pausing my TiVo or doing anything else, even just 300 would be a marked improvement from the TiVo branded adapter.


----------



## greg_burns

Impulses said:


> Are you pausing or placing your TiVo in standby before transfering? Or using something besides TTG to transfer for that matter? greg_burns' numbers are similar to yours when he's paused a recording on his TiVo (basically telling it to focus on the transfer and nothing else).
> 
> Other than that I can't imagine why there would be a big discrepancy (given that you're comparing stable wired connections), the numbers with my wireless Linksys WUSB54G are about on par with other tests tho, like 185 KBps w/o pausing my TiVo or doing anything else, even just 300 would be a marked improvement from the TiVo branded adapter.


Not sure who you asking this of. As far as my numbers, at the time I was not pausing or standby. Wasn't aware of those tricks when I did my tests.


----------



## CuriousMark

greg_burns said:


> Edit: why are my numbers so much higher than *CuriousMark*'s USB200M (posted above), but seem to fall in step with *akp*'s in the thread I linked to?


I was doing TiVoToGo transfers to TiVo Desktop. It looks like you are posting MRV transfers. Is that the case? I know MRV is faster, but have done no transfer speed tests of MRV yet.

Also, some of my tests were for a 595, a Humax DVD burner, and those are known to be even slower than 540s.

I think the main point is that any person's mileage may vary and that the reasons can be quite complicated and not very obvious.

This also shows that just putting up numbers without saying exactly how they were gotten can lead to even more confusion. That is why I tried to list the test conditions and procedure with my numbers. I wanted it to be easy for future readers to interpret the results.

CuriousMark


----------



## Impulses

greg_burns said:


> Not sure who you asking this of. As far as my numbers, at the time I was not pausing or standby. Wasn't aware of those tricks when I did my tests.


Was asking it of you, you seemed to be puzzled by the disrepancy in transfer rates between your and Mark, but he seems to have figured out the answer to that... Also explains some of the confusion I had as I read the thread you previously linked.

Over there akp was trying to draw apples to apples comparisons and people are mixing in MRV and TTG results as well as a number of other things (Quality settings, etc), makes it very hard to interpret. I'm not even sure why MRV transfers would be faster than TTG transfers (would it be the TiVo Desktop software's fault? or what?)...

Still, TiVo's own adapter seems to be an effective way of improving transfer speeds if you're using anything but a wired adapter no? Thanks for your detailed comparison Mark!


----------



## greg_burns

All my tests were from Tivos to PC using the TivoDesktop software. What makes you think they were MRV?

MRV's are faster because the video doesn't need to be "converted"/"encrypted" (I am going to get slammed by somebody who knows this stuff  ) between Tivos, only happens when the destination is your PC.

My point of posting "hard" numbers, perhaps out of context (though I don't think so), were to question ufo4sale's statement is all.



ufo4sale said:


> I'm also here to report that the wireless G TiVo adapter is FASTER THEN THE WIRED USB200 M LINKSYS ADAPTER!!!  . It's so fast that i'm going to buy them for all my TiVo's. Thanks again TiVo. This is a must have for anyone who transfer shows between TiVo's all the time.


Still waiting on some discussion on his claim.


----------



## greg_burns

Impulses said:


> Over there akp was trying to draw apples to apples comparisons and people are mixing in MRV and TTG results as well as a number of other things (Quality settings, etc), makes it very hard to interpret.


Quality settings doesn't matter. All you need to know is file size and time it took for comparison purposes. (And of course model of Tivo and transfer method)

Edit: transfer method probably is _not_ relevant either. But adapter type would be useful.


----------



## CuriousMark

greg_burns said:


> All my tests were from Tivos to PC using the TivoDesktop software. What makes you think they were MRV?


I thought they might be MRV because they were faster that what I saw. But re-reading your posts and seeing that you were using TiVo desktop, straightened me out on that. There must be some other difference that accounts for it. There are many other variables that we haven't accounted for. One that is visible is that you did your test a while back with older TiVo software. Perhaps 7.2.1, which is what I have and tested under is a bit slower. Do you still get those speeds with 7.2.1 software?

CuriousMark


----------



## greg_burns

CuriousMark said:


> I thought they might be MRV because they were faster that what I saw. But re-reading your posts and seeing that you were using TiVo desktop, straightened me out on that. There must be some other difference that accounts for it. There are many other variables that we haven't accounted for. One that is visible is that you did your test a while back with older TiVo software. Perhaps 7.2.1, which is what I have and tested under is a bit slower. Do you still get those speeds with 7.2.1 software?
> 
> CuriousMark


I no longer have my 540 to test with. But one of these nights I will test my 240 again with the newer software. I think it pretty well established the 240s kick butt. 

I think the biggest difference is going to be model of Tivo and type of adapter (wired vs wireless). Different wired adapters may even behave differently from each because of differences in their linux drivers?  Of course, they new Tivo wireless adapter should be considered a third type in my book. It has been stated elsewhere that the optimizations done by Tivo for their adapter wouldn't help in a wired situation.

Any hoot. All I want to know is if a switch to Tivo's wireless adapter is really such a smart move if one is already hard wired?


----------



## Impulses

greg_burns said:


> Quality settings doesn't matter. All you need to know is file size and time it took for comparison purposes. (And of course model of Tivo and transfer method)
> 
> Edit: transfer method probably is relevant either. But adapter type would be useful.


Quality itself is not relevant but when people started comparing transfer times on "X-hours show at Z-Quality" on that thread it soon became a mess, obviously just going by file size is more accurate. There even seemed to be some Quality/file size differences between some TiVo models.

I don't see why it's unimaginable that the TiVo wireless adapter could be as fast or slightly faster than a wired connection under certain circumstances given the details about it already discussed in this thread... It's definitely leaps and bounds faster than other adapters and there's a few reasons for that.

I'm sure a TiVo designed wired adapter could be faster than anything else but we don't have such a thing (and at some point you're always gonna hit a bottleneck). I don't think going from wired to the current TiVo adapter right now will offer any tangible benefits tho, did you look at the numbers? The difference is pretty tiny.

288 KBs vs 282 KBs (in his test under his circumstances)? Why would you switch for that... For all we know it's all within the margin of error anyway.


----------



## greg_burns

Impulses said:


> I don't see why it's unimaginable that the TiVo wireless adapter could be as fast or slightly faster than a wired connection under certain circumstances given the details about it already discussed in this thread...


Unimaginable, no. Questionable, you bet.



Impulses said:


> It's definitely leaps and bounds faster than other adapters and there's a few reasons for that.


The reasons I've heard all had to do with wireless optimizations. Not trying to be argumentative. Just seems like ufo4sale's claim is hanging out there all by itself...



Impulses said:


> 288 KBs vs 282 KBs (in his test under his circumstances)? Why would you switch for that... For all we know it's all within the margin of error anyway.


Nobody would. But I wasn't comparing against Mark's numbers. (For whatever reason, they don't jive with akp's and my own). My numbers were much higher than that when wired; 554KBps on my 240 and 495KBps on my 540. Hence all my questions.


----------



## Impulses

Some of the optimizations mentioned are related to basic networking, period, from what I understood (not just wireless ones)... Support for a wired adapter is not native to the TiVo either so there's some overhead there as well, as far as I can tell. Hence, this adapter's performance.

I brought up Mark's numbers because they can serve you as a watermark for what kind of improvement you might see. His transfer speeds might be lower than yours across the board (for a huge number of reasons) but the gap between his identical wired adapter and the TiVo wireless one was minuscule, stands to reason you'd see similar results.

I'm not trying to be argumentative either, I find it interesting and I -am- intrigued as to why the gap in performance could be as large as 100 KBps between two wired connections with identical adapters. Seeing as you don't have your 540 anymore we may not get to the bottom of this here though.

By the way, this may be totally unrelated (or not) but I've been trying to figure out what does the 'Server Activity' setting under Server Prefferences affect...

At first glance I thought it had to do with the bandwith the TiVo would try and use but... it seems it merely governs how much of your resources will the app use locally? I rarely see this setting mentioned on these discussions (or anywhere at all when I try to do a search, hence why I ask).


Edit: If it merely determines how much RAM/CPU utilization is allowed, would that have a big impact on transfer speeds? How about the cache size for that matter... I have an extra drive I'll probably start to use exclusively for saving TiVo files, I figure I should probably move the cache folder away from my OS drive to that.


----------



## greg_burns

Impulses said:


> I brought up Mark's numbers because they can serve you as a watermark for what kind of improvement you might see. His transfer speeds might be lower than yours across the board (for a huge number of reasons) but the gap between his identical wired adapter and the TiVo wireless one was minuscule, stands to reason you'd see similar results.


Good point.


----------



## bonowall

Ok - so I got Tivo for a friend of mine and she was having nightmares with the wireless connections. After looking into it, she ordered the Tivo branded one. It should have been a simple process right...

Well she just emailed me (so I cannot tell EXACTLY what the error messages were) BUT...I was wondering if these issues were experienced before and if there is a common fix for it.

BTW - she has the 540 model series 2. It has been up and running with a wired connection without any difficulty.

Here goes...

"TiVo update: I tried the adapter this AM. Some progress was made! As soon as I plugged it in TiVo popped up a screen saying it detected a network device being plugged in. I got to the point where I could select my wireless account name from the list but then got stuck on the next step. It kept giving me a network error message and some techno jargon that really did not make sense to me. I am going to try and reboot my DSL and wireless router tonight and see if that does the trick"

I'm thinking a reboot won't do anything right? Is there a patch or update she needs to download?

Please help...


----------



## CuriousMark

bonowall said:


> "TiVo update: I tried the adapter this AM. Some progress was made! As soon as I plugged it in TiVo popped up a screen saying it detected a network device being plugged in. I got to the point where I could select my wireless account name from the list but then got stuck on the next step. It kept giving me a network error message and some techno jargon that really did not make sense to me. I am going to try and reboot my DSL and wireless router tonight and see if that does the trick"
> 
> I'm thinking a reboot won't do anything right? Is there a patch or update she needs to download?


This is probably the wrong thread to post a problem, the help forum would be better. Nevertheless, it sounds like the TiVo is just fine. Depending on the error message text, a router setting may need to be changed. Please post the exact details of the message in the help forum and I am sure you will get a quick answer that will get you going in no time.

For example, if her router is set to use WPA instead of WEP, she would get an error here. Or if she has MAC filtering enabled and didn't enter the TiVo adapter MAC address into the filter's allow list, she would get an error here. The details will help. I doubt rebooting anything will make a difference at this point, but it won't hurt either.

CuriousMark


----------



## Impulses

Sounds like her adapter has been recognized just fine by the TiVo, the problem's configuring it correctly, any number of things could be set up wrong. Mark touched on a few, without knowing the exact error (or even if she got stuck on the WEP key screen or what) it's hard to tell what's wrong.


----------



## ufo4sale

Ok, I have 3 540 series II TiVo's. The only thing that I tested was the MRV AND NOTHING ELSE. I'm going to be testing the TTG over the weekend both ways. With and without a wire I used a stop watch to test which connection was faster. I transferred the same Futurama episode at high quality several times. I tested the wireless G connection from 5 feet away from the router and 50 feet away from the router with several walls in between. Weather it is 5 feet away or 50 feet away the speed of the wireless G is still the same. I also had a 50 foot Ethernet cord connect from the TiVo to the router. This was 4 minutes slower then the Wireless G. Just for comparison I tested a wireless G VS a wireless B. The wireless B paused four or five times while I was watching. The wireless G did not. I have an SRX wireless router.


----------



## Impulses

What adapters were you using?


----------



## ufo4sale

Impulses said:


> What adapters were you using?


Considering that this thread is about the TiVo Wireless G adapter, that is what i'm testing.


----------



## TechDreamer

What WIRED adapters were you using?


----------



## greg_burns

TechDreamer said:


> What WIRED adapters were you using?


I believe he was saying it was a linksys...



ufo4sale said:


> I'm also here to report that the wireless G TiVo adapter is FASTER THEN THE WIRED USB200 M LINKSYS ADAPTER!!!  .


----------



## TechDreamer

Why won't Tivo let us use our points on these? Is there a shortage? I want a couple if they are faster than wired Ethernet.


----------



## mick66

How important is signal strength and why does the TiVo wireless G adapter seem to have such a difficult time maintaining a consistant signal strangth? The other adapters that I've tried display a relatively consistant 100% signal strength, but the TiVo adapter is all over the place primarily between 66% and 92%. My router is only about 25 feet away on the other side of an empty wall (no wiring or plumbing). Results are the same on a 540 and a 140 Tivo.

Would I be better off with a B adapter at 100% or a G at 78%?


----------



## stevel

Mick, the reporting of signal strength is difficult to compare between adapters, and is not itself a measure of signal quality. If you are getting good transfer rates at a "78%" signal I'd go for that.


----------



## mfrns0123

mick66 said:


> How important is signal strength and why does the TiVo wireless G adapter seem to have such a difficult time maintaining a consistant signal strangth? The other adapters that I've tried display a relatively consistant 100% signal strength, but the TiVo adapter is all over the place primarily between 66% and 92%. My router is only about 25 feet away on the other side of an empty wall (no wiring or plumbing). Results are the same on a 540 and a 140 Tivo.
> 
> Would I be better off with a B adapter at 100% or a G at 78%?


I had the same issue but found the Tivo adapter was much better. In fact I just bought a second one and the MRV is almost double realtime. IMO Stick with the Tivo adapter.


----------



## ufo4sale

greg_burns said:


> I believe he was saying it was a linksys...


Yes, USB200M LINKSYS adapter


----------



## pcar1947

I ordered 2 TIVO Wireless G adapters Sunday January 20th and they were hooked up Tuesday January 22nd. 

I bought them because I was so frustrated with my previous configuration which was the original version of the ULTIMATE WIRELESS NETWORK . 

Just to let you folks know you can get real time transfers in best quality. I just setup two TiVo 2 80Hr with two of the Linksys USB200M USB 2.0 10/100 Network Adapters, each hooked to a Linksys WGA54G Wireless-G Game Adapter (works just like the WET54G Wireless-G Ethernet Bridge but cost less and in a different case for the gaming market). Routed by a Linksys WRT54G Wireless-G Broadband Router. The high gain antenna on the WGA54G Wireless-G Game Adapter get a much better signal than the WUSB11. 

For 2 years I used this network and spent many hours in research ( in search of maximum signal strength and consistency) and re-setup of this network. I would constantly have to unplug ( reboot) the Game adapters during transfers of programs.

From Tuesday thru Saturday the 26th I have not had to reboot the TIVO Wireless G adapters. I have not timed the transfers yet but they seem more consistent and faster.


----------



## LtKernelPanic

*Sigh* I've gotten to the point of having to reboot my tivo at least once a day because it keeps losing the wireless connection and decided to bit the bullet and order the tivo adapter to discover it's back ordered until 3/6/06. This could be a very long and trying 5 weeks....


----------



## mrjam2jab

Do you really need to reboot each time you lose the connection? When i lose mine i just pull out the adapter and reseat it.....usually is all that is required....


----------



## LtKernelPanic

Unfortunately rebooting is easier than getting to the back of the Tivo.


----------



## rog

LtKernelPanic said:


> Unfortunately rebooting is easier than getting to the back of the Tivo.


USB extension cable. $10.


----------



## LtKernelPanic

I have one that came with the adapter. it's still a PITA to get to. As I said getting to the back of the Tivo is next to impossible and the actual adapter is on the top shelf to get the best signal reception (The info page says 100% signal). Oh well. Good things come to those who wait or something.


----------



## rog

LtKernelPanic said:


> I have one that came with the adapter. it's still a PITA to get to. As I said getting to the back of the Tivo is next to impossible and the actual adapter is on the top shelf to get the best signal reception (The info page says 100% signal). Oh well. Good things come to those who wait or something.


Not to nitpick this, but a USB *extension* cord would actually allow you to unhook the wireless device without having to get to the back of the unit. It sounds like you have an *attached* USB cord? If you can unplug either end it would be the same as disconnecting the device, and would save you a reboot.

It's just me, but I'd rather not reboot the TiVo if I don't have to.


----------



## ciper

WRT54G + Tofu firmware in bridged mode is not only cheaper than the Tivo made wireless adapter but you also get extra wireless feature support and the ability to adjust power output level and use your own antenna(s). I wouldnt be surprised if its also faster.

Besides that I assume the Tivo is not your only network connected device in your home theater (sling box or video games). The WRT54G has 3 additional ports for those other devices once you connect the Tivo.


----------



## bonowall

So here I am - back in the saddle again only this time, I bought my first tivo - still in the box in my car. I know I will need wireless adapter and I need to know if it's REALLY worth me wating 5 weeks for the TIVO branded one or if there is something comparable.

I also have wireless to my XBOX 360 - will these new signals cut strength down. What do I need to do to maximize my strength overall. I have a built in wireless modem through SBC entertainment in northern CA....

thoughts?


----------



## ufo4sale

bonowall said:


> So here I am - back in the saddle again only this time, I bought my first tivo - still in the box in my car. I know I will need wireless adapter and I need to know if it's REALLY worth me wating 5 weeks for the TIVO branded one or if there is something comparable.
> 
> I also have wireless to my XBOX 360 - will these new signals cut strength down. What do I need to do to maximize my strength overall. I have a built in wireless modem through SBC entertainment in northern CA....
> 
> thoughts?


If you want a Wireless connection for your TiVo then get the Wireless G TiVo adapter. It's slightly faster then a wired connection. Yon don't have to wait 5 weeks to get one. I got my in 3 days with ground shipping. If you buy this you won't regreet it.


----------



## ciper

How do you have wireless to the xbox?


----------



## greg_burns

ufo4sale said:


> Yon don't have to wait 5 weeks to get one. I got my in 3 days with ground shipping.


I believe he said 5 weeks based on this post above...



LtKernelPanic said:


> ...bit the bullet and order the tivo adapter to discover it's back ordered until 3/6/06. This could be a very long and trying 5 weeks....


----------



## ThreeSoFar

bonowall said:


> So here I am - back in the saddle again only this time, I bought my first tivo - still in the box in my car. I know I will need wireless adapter and I need to know if it's REALLY worth me wating 5 weeks for the TIVO branded one or if there is something comparable.
> 
> I also have wireless to my XBOX 360 - will these new signals cut strength down. What do I need to do to maximize my strength overall. I have a built in wireless modem through SBC entertainment in northern CA....
> 
> thoughts?


Why not wired?

You could use a long ethernet cable as a hold-over until the wireless comes in.

I've been running a 50' cable into the kitchen TiVo once a week or so, but the new TiVo adapter just came in. Other (Linksys?) adapter I tried had horrible reception there. Hoping this one is better.


----------



## bonowall

ciper said:


> How do you have wireless to the xbox?


I am using the XBOX wirelss adapter to the back of the unit - it works well (though i dont know how to see how fast those speeds are - but that's a different story).

I guess I am just in a hurry to get it set up and since the tivo version is backordered, I need to be SURE that it's worth it.


----------



## stevel

ciper said:


> WRT54G + Tofu firmware in bridged mode is not only cheaper than the Tivo made wireless adapter but you also get extra wireless feature support and the ability to adjust power output level and use your own antenna(s). I wouldnt be surprised if its also faster.


Um, you left out the cost of the USB wired adapter to connect to the TiVo. Last I knew, the WRT54G did not have a USB input. This solution also puts the burden of the MAC network layer back onto the TiVo's CPU. Doesn't sound like a win to me.


----------



## JamieP

stevel said:


> This solution also puts the burden of the MAC network layer back onto the TiVo's CPU.


You lost me on this one. I'm pretty familar with the linux driver for the ax88172 used by the usb200m and other wired usb2 devices, and I'm not aware of any MAC network layer burden being handled by the driver for the wired devices. I know some wireless devices based on Intersil Prism chips (now part of Conexant) have a soft-mac architecture, but I don't think that applies to the _wired_ devices typically used with a tivo. Perhaps there is something and I'm just not aware of it. If so, educate me!


----------



## greg_burns

stevel said:


> This solution also puts the burden of the MAC network layer back onto the TiVo's CPU.


I have to question that also. I thought TivoJerry said this feature of the TiVo adapter would not be applicable in a wired form. I may have misread him tough.



TiVoJerry said:


> While I wouldn't expect to see improved performance over this particular setup, I do not know how much, if any, of the workload for your adapter is passed down to the DVR. It is certainly possible that you might still see some benefit, but I would leave this be if I were in your shoes (especially if you are able to use WPA in this manner).


I am still waiting for some more confirmations that the TiVo adapter is faster than a wired connection. (see post #179 in this thread). I wanna believe!


----------



## mick66

LtKernelPanic said:


> decided to bit the bullet and order the tivo adapter to discover it's back ordered until 3/6/06. This could be a very long and trying 5 weeks....


There's always Ebay, but it seems you have to pay a high price to get this item while it's out of stock at Tivo.com. This one went for over $240.


----------



## greg_burns

mick66 said:


> There's always Ebay, but it seems you have to pay a high price to get this item while it's out of stock at Tivo.com. This one went for over $240.


Holy cow! Maybe TiVo should have took pre-orders like the Xbox360.


----------



## LordGoofy

While it worked... I could watch a program as it streamed. Then the random rebooting issue started... I think that is why they are "out of stock". Probably don't any more out in the wild while they try to solve this problem.


----------



## stevel

No, that's not why. It's that the demand far exceeded their predictions and their supplier couldn't keep up. I haven't seen any evidence (save your post above) that there are any problems with the design.


----------



## peteypete

Is Tivo having the same problem apple used to have? Not having good control over inventory?


----------



## LordGoofy

stevel said:


> No, that's not why. It's that the demand far exceeded their predictions and their supplier couldn't keep up. I haven't seen any evidence (save your post above) that there are any problems with the design.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=282296

couple of others there too... just FYI

I am not saying that it is a bad product, I loved it while it worked, and I doubt that it is a design flaw, more like a problem with the drivers not liking certain TiVos. As long as I either get a resolution soon or they refund my money I have no problems at all with this. I understand that when you release a product like this that they can not hit every possible combination of things to test. Just keep up the great work all you TiVo employees.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Got mine today.

Doesn't work. N08 error.

Horrible software interface. Using a fixed IP, there's a LONG wait after you select the IP. Then ANOTHER one after you select the rest of the information (broadcast, gateway, DNS). Stupid.

*sigh*....see also this post.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Disabled WEP and now it worked.

Anyone know a magic way to get to the HEX entry for the key? Or is it something stupid like it needs uppercase for hex key?

update: Magically, I see the hex entry screen again and I have WEP working. Gawd. And apparently uppercase is a must so if I had done uppercase on the other ouija board it might have worked.

My connection is at 68%. Will try a transfer now.


----------



## twm01

When, oh when, will they be available in the TiVo Reward program???


----------



## Dajad

I live in a Condo with so many other wireless routers, microwave, wireless phones etc. that my prior B and G adapters became almost unusable. I switched over to wireless A a couple months ago and things have been golden ever since. 

I only have Series 1s now and am considering an upgrade to Series 2s (or 3s when they come out). Are there Wireless A adapters that work with TiVo. That's the way I'd want to go.

...Dale


----------



## stevel

You would have to go with a wired Ethernet solution and then a Wireless A adapter.


----------



## SMWinnie

stevel said:


> You would have to go with a wired Ethernet solution and then a Wireless A adapter.


Anybody got a recommendation for an 802.11*a* bridge?


----------



## remotecontrol

Are these availble or going to be available on 3/6 or they pushed back longer? Just wondering it anyone has any more info. I've had my tivo for a couple of weeks now and still can't use it. I can't find any of the compatible adapters in stores anywhere. I can find a few on ebay but the price gets out of hand really quickly.


----------



## beeman65

Their website says they will ship on 3/36, but it is subject to change, of course. They won't charge you until it is shipped tough. I just ordered one today. The delay actually works out good for me since I still need to purchase a few more things to get my wireless network up and running.


----------



## dpfaust

I just got an email that my back ordered wireless adapters shipped. I probably ordered them 2-3 weeks ago. They should be here on 2/28! I can't wait.

Dave


----------



## LtKernelPanic

Hmm. Well since I got my tax return a couple days ago I went ahead and ordered one. I'm tired of fighting my so called "Tivo Compatible" wireless adapter. Hopefully it'll ship soon too.


----------



## remotecontrol

I'm tired of trying to track down any other brand that is compatible. The site now says they are set to ship on 3/13. I'm going to go ahead and order one.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

And wired is not an option? Running cable isn't as hard as it looks.


----------



## ExcelGal

ThreeSoFar said:


> And wired is not an option? Running cable isn't as hard as it looks.


It is if your house is completely finished!


----------



## stevel

Even if it is completely finished, there are ways...


----------



## ThreeSoFar

ExcelGal said:


> It is if your house is completely finished!


Uh, no. That's what I meant.

It's not as hard as it looks.


----------



## greg_burns

ThreeSoFar said:


> Uh, no. That's what I meant.
> 
> It's not as hard as it looks.


Any advice? Perhaps links or something. I would love to run cable RG6 and ethernet in my walls, but don't know where to begin...


----------



## ducker

I totally lucked out last night... I stopped by a best buy to check out what they had and was pleasantly suprised to find:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6825233&type=product&id=1091101527998

It actually had a sticker on it that stated "Tivo compatable." And it did check out with tivo's list of approved wireless network adapters.

(Note, I didn't over it via their website, but at a store... YMMV if you over it through their website. but if you get the wrong model I suppose you could easily return it to a B&M store)


----------



## remotecontrol

I ordered my Tivo adapter this morning, and about an hour ago I realized a way I could hook it up wired. doh! I can run the ethernet cable under the floor from the computer through the hole the intenet cable comes up through my basement and across to the hole where the tv cable comes up in the ajoining room. Oh well I still might do that in the future and use the wireless router to connect with a future laptop purchase.


----------



## stevel

The TiVo adapter does not work with anything but a TiVo.


----------



## remotecontrol

I know.


----------



## ChuckyBox

remotecontrol said:


> I ordered my Tivo adapter this morning, and about an hour ago I realized a way I could hook it up wired. doh!


Can't you just cancel the order? The new adapters aren't supposed to ship for another couple of weeks, so it's not like they already put it in the mail.


----------



## rcobourn

1) Wait until Tivo runs out of stock again

2) Sell on Ebay at a premium

3) Profit!


----------



## remotecontrol

rcobourn said:


> 1) Wait until Tivo runs out of stock again
> 
> 2) Sell on Ebay at a premium
> 
> 3) Profit!


mindreader


----------



## SMWinnie

rcobourn said:


> 1) Wait until Tivo runs out of stock again
> 
> 2) Sell on Ebay at a premium
> 
> 3) Profit!


Gotta buy online, USB fob
Works with wireless, "G"
We sure wish it had WPA
Yum tum yummy tum whee!


----------



## LtKernelPanic

edit: I just realized I quoted the wrong reply. Guess I shouldn't post after just waking up after pulling an overnighter at work. 

I was referring to the Netgear adapter I bought last fall. Even though it said "Tivo compatible" on it the thing only works about half the time.


----------



## beeman65

Just a heads up: I looked at my card statement and noticed that the Tivo store sent the charge through for the adapter I ordered two weeks ago when it was backordered. I went back to the shopping page on Tivo's site and the it looks like the adapter is back in stock (for now) Buy away!


----------



## LtKernelPanic

Sweet. I just checked my online account and the starting and ending balances differ by the amount of my order. Of course It probably won't ship until tomorrow so I won't get it until Monday.


----------



## greg_burns

LtKernelPanic said:


> Sweet. I just checked my online account and the starting and ending balances differ by the amount of my order. Of course It probably won't ship until tomorrow so I won't get it until Monday.


God I hope my adapter with the refurb ships soon. Lifetime activation is over next week! 

Does anybody no if a backordered adapter would also hold up my refurb order? Nothing showed up on my card. Ordered on 2/24.


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## LtKernelPanic

I ordered mine on 2/25 so check whatever card you used to order it. I'm guessing the back orders will be shipping shortly. As for the lifetime thing I think you have 30 days after they stop offering lifetime subs to get one for any Tivo purchased before 3/13.


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## remotecontrol

I ordered mine when it was backordered, but now the site doesn't say it's backordered. I haven't received an email saying it's been shipped. I guess checking my checking account(used debit) is the only way to find out?


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## LtKernelPanic

Seems so. I assume notifications will go out tomorrow or Friday because they can't charge your card until they're ready to ship.


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## remotecontrol

LtKernelPanic said:


> Seems so. I assume notifications will go out tomorrow or Friday because they can't charge your card until they're ready to ship.


you were right about that. I got an email today. It's scheduled to arrive tomorrow. Yes!


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## NewYorkLaw

I got mine today, and am surprised that I see no difference in transfer speed over my netgear wg111. I am still getting the same 66% connection (nothing better) and have the same transfer speeds - at medium quality I can get ahead of the transfer, at best, I get occasional pauses, and at High, I just keep up. 

BiG DISAPPOINTMENT for me. Cost $10 more plus shipping!

Pete


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## LtKernelPanic

Ha. i got the email an hour after UPS dropped mine off. So far it's working great. Now to see if I stop getting the drop outs that my Netgear suffered from.


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## PEFred

Good info on speed comparison between adaptors. I've got the Linksys 801.b WUSB-11 (V2.6) from Ebay, not a store (TiVo did not support later versions), and it works OK with my 801.g network doing PC video transfers. But does anybody who has got the TiVo 801.g adaptor notice any real speed increase, worth replacing a working 801.b adaptor.

Thanks,

PEFred


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## mherdeen

PEFred: I had the same linksys adapter as you and upgraded to the Tivo wireless G - I would definitely recommend the upgrade (if you have poor performance now)

Personally I've noticed substantial increases in connectivity and speed of transfers. I upgraded my home network about 9 months ago to the Belkin pre-n router (Awesome router by the way), then purchased the Tivo adapter when it first came out for the wireless tivo furthest from my router. This tivo previously had the linksys wusb11 adapter.

Transfers were slowwhen I first setup this Tivo, a bit better with the router upgrade (about 50-60 minutes to transfer a 1 hour recording at medium quality). 

Once I upgraded to the Tivo wireless G adapter, signal strength increased by about 10% (avg. 75-80% now) and I can transfer the same 1 hour recording in approx. 20-25 minutes.

Recently bought a 2nd tivo adapter for my tivo one floor closer to my router and get even better signal strenght (90-95%) and slightly faster transfers. Couldn't ask for any better!


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## LtKernelPanic

Well I've had mine since 3/10 and have not had one dropout since. Well worth the cost to not have to keep unplugging/replugging my adapter or rebooting the tivo to get it working again.


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## ThreeSoFar

LtKernelPanic said:


> Well I've had mine since 3/10 and have not had one dropout since. Well worth the cost to not have to keep unplugging/replugging my adapter or rebooting the tivo to get it working again.


I guess I can say the same, well worth it. Though I wasn't rebooting, I was snaking a 45' ethernet cable from the living room into the kitchen once a week or so.

Now I can even transfer to/from that TiVo as needed.


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## jfh3

Looks like they are back in stock on Tivo.com ...


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## Resist

stevel said:


> The TiVo adapter does not work with anything but a TiVo.


Why? Or I should ask, how is that?

I just got mine today and love this adapter so far. I had to remember what my network WEP code was, but once I did the connection setup went very smooth. I had been using a Microsoft Wireless Game adapter on my Tivo but needed it for the XBox 360. So I moved the Tivo to another TV and got the Tivo brand wireless adapter. I must say it is a very stylish wireless adapter.


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## bitTraveler

jfh3 said:


> Looks like they are back in stock on Tivo.com ...


Also appears to be in stock on Amazon with free shipping.

bit


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## greg_burns

Resist said:


> Why? Or I should ask, how is that?


Good question! I assumed it was because nobody has written Windows drivers. Obviously they created Linux drivcers (but are not making them available). Or maybe there is some other technical reason. 

I just plugged mine into my XP machine for the heck of it. It detects a "Remote Download Wireless Adapter" and then prompts for a driver disk.


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## Resist

I know this a very old thread but, since I just wire my Series 3 directly to my router and was able to unplug the Tivo network adapter. I still would love to use this adapter on another device.


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## pdonoghu

Resist said:


> I know this a very old thread but, since I just wire my Series 3 directly to my router and was able to unplug the Tivo network adapter. I still would love to use this adapter on another device.


To work on anything other than a Tivo, you would need drivers for the device to be able to work. Those drivers would have to be specific to the operating system the Tivo adapter is connected to, Windows, MAC, Linux, etc. There are no functioning drivers available. If you no longer need the Tivo adapter, you best bet is to sell it.


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