# Various freezes & reboots, is Tivo dying



## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

I've had a standard UK tivo for about 7 or so years and it has served me very well. The only mod I have done is fit a larger HDD about 3yr ago (I think it was an 80gig from memory). Currently I use it in a Sky> Tivo> TV setup.

Recently I have been experiencing the following problems:
1. Random reboots. I can be watching a recording or even live tv when Tivo just reoboots with no warning. It goes through the "Almost there" screen and the little video of Tivo man liding through the rollercoaster, then ends at the main screen. This has happen about 3 times in the last 2 hrs. I hadn't noticed it before today but of course it could have happened and unless it was in the middle of a recording I wouldn't have noticed.

2. Juddering pictures. The video has been stuttering at odd occasions. Sometimes this will continue (like a online streaming video when bandwidth is not enough) until I stop playback and choose something else.

3. On a couple of occasions the Tivo has completely frozen mid playback. The image of whatever was being played has remiained on the screen and I have had to unplug from the mains to get it back to useable state again.

Any suggestions? Is my Tivo just old and on its last legs.

The only thing I considered was maybe the disk was getting full and causing the errors. There was a lot on it and nothing of tivo's choice had been recorded. There were however a number of programmes still there which had the "can be deleted to make space" mark and so I would have thought that would have been ok. I deleted a load of stuff anyway to see if it improves it - it is too early to really see if this is the case so far.

thanks for any advice

[update] - now Tivo completely refuses to reboot and start up. It goes through the "powering up" and "almost there" screens and then starts again. I think it's on it's last legs  I have powered down completely and will maybe try later.

Could this be salvageable by a new hard disk? If so what kind of hurdles will I face - e.g. need a disk image of some sort - is this legal/easy to find. Also what about my current subscription details with Tivo? will they just automatically work, or do I need to input them somehow.

TIA


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Almost certainly a drive problem. 

Fitting a new preconfigured drive is the quickest and easiest option. 

Cheers
Steve


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

Blindlemon is too retiring to mention that he can supply preconfigured drives from his tivoheaven.co.uk site. I have no affiliatiation other than being a satisfied customer. You just have to pop in one of his drives & Tivo has a new lease of life. Also there are a couple of other people who can do the same or you can buy a drive and get a new image (I think your existing one is decidedly an exTivo image) and set up the drive yourself. If you do that though research which manufacturer to go for as some have problems.

Your Tivo subscription is tied to the motherboard so there's no issue there - you're not changing it's identity by replacing the drive.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

The two alternative suppliers of prepared drives that you can just drop in to your existing Tivo and carry on using the Lifetime Sub (stored on the motherboard and not on the hard drive) with are www.tivocentral.co.uk and www.tivoland.com

Or do it yourself, if you feel confident enough to do so, by requesting a link to an image in the image thread here on this forum and using the guide at www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo/upgrade3.html


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## healeydave (Jun 4, 2003)

Tivo's grow old gracefully, so you probably have little to worry about its overall health!

There are 4 main components:

1..The Main Board, rarely fails unless damaged by lightening
2..The PSU, again excellent reliability as switchmode power supplies go, far superior than the cheap units used in receiver set-top-boxes!
3..The Fan, will just keep going
4..The Hard Disk, well this is the weak point, with moving parts this is not only the most common point of failure but its not a question of if but when will you need to replace it. Consider this a consumable, 3-5 years from a HDD should be considered good going!


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## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

Thanks to all who replied. I think I will go for a pre-formatted replacement drive. I need someone who will deliver on a Saturday, since I'm at work during the week!


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## dvdfever (Jun 2, 2002)

Can't you get it delivered to your workplace? Some places might charge extra for Saturday-specific delivery (I haven't checked out the options availabile, BTW, but I'd either get it delivered to my workplace or a relative's house)


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

www.tivoheaven.co.uk I believe use Royal Mail Special Delivery as standard but there is an extra higher charge for guaranteed next day Special Delivery on a Saturday compared to Monday to Friday - something like £9.00 instead of £5.00. So I would have thought www.tivoheaven.co.uk would have to reflect the higher Saturday delivery charge in their prices.

As another poster mentioned can't you get the item delivered direct to your office? Or if you work for a large company who have anally retentive policies banning such practices then Royal Mail will redeliver it for pick up at your nearest local Post Office or Sub Post Office (including the one nearest to your office address) during working hours for less than £1.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> www.tivoheaven.co.uk I believe use Royal Mail Special Delivery as standard but there is an extra higher charge for guaranteed next day Special Delivery on a Saturday compared to Monday to Friday


Yes, we charge an extra £3 for Saturday Guaranteed delivery, but 95% of Special Delivery items posted on a Friday to residential addresses seem to get delivered Saturday anyway, so if you don't mind taking a chance, just ask for it to be posted on a Friday and don't bother with the extra £3 

Cheers
Steve


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Yes, we charge an extra £3 for Saturday Guaranteed delivery, but 95% of Special Delivery items posted on a Friday to residential addresses seem to get delivered Saturday anyway, so if you don't mind taking a chance, just ask for it to be posted on a Friday and don't bother with the extra £3


At least 95% of mail sent within the same region of the UK 1st Class seems to arrive next day. If it is sent inter-regionally (eg North West to South West) it is probably more like 80% to 85% that gets there next day.

At the end of the day the OP needs guaranteed delivery on a Saturday so I think he is going to have to pay the extra. Alternatively he could have the item sent normal 1st class post and have it fall in to the hands of his local sorting office from where he has 21 days to recover it before it is returned. Or only 7 days if the item is sent Signed For or Special Delivery and he is not at home when the postman calls.

Royal Mail will also normally redeliver to a neighbour free of charge with your signed authority so if the OP has a friendly neighbour who is normally at home all day that might also be an option.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> If it is sent inter-regionally (eg North West to South West) it is probably more like 80% to 85% that gets there next day.


My experience with _Special Delivery_ items posted on a Friday to all parts of the UK is that it's considerably better than that. Very rarely is delivery not attempted on Saturday.

However, as you say, if somebody wants it *guaranteed* for Saturday then it makes sense to pay the extra and use the Saturday Guaranteed service 

Cheers
Steve


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> My experience with _Special Delivery_ items posted on a Friday to all parts of the UK is that it's considerably better than that. Very rarely is delivery not attempted on Saturday.


I'm sure Royal Mail try and still hurry the item through the system compared to normal 1st Class mail but they clearly don't end up sending out an extra postman to deliver it or whatever as they sometimes will have to do on the days (Monday to Friday) when delivery is Guaranteed by a certain time (especially if the item is guaranteed for 9am delivery and you live in a country area).

I think the OP's point was really just that he is not home except on Saturday so using regular post and Signed For and collecting from the local Delivery Office on Saturday morning may make just as much sense for him.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I think the OP's point was really just that he is not home except on Saturday so using regular post and Signed For and collecting from the local Delivery Office on Saturday morning may make just as much sense for him.


Maybe we just should let the OP decide for himself what he wants to do, as the various options have now been put before him in mind-numbing detail 

Cheers
Steve


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

By the way I notice that www.tivocentral.co.uk do also offer Next Day delivery but they charge a rather whopping £9.95 for the service, even on a normal Monday to Friday.

This seems rather unfair to those who do not need Next Day Delivery on a Saturday.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

&#163;9.95 is for postage to Europe - you may have caught me mid-edit 

I suggest people ring up and order over the phone if any special arrangements are needed, or if they want to avoid paypal/gc.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> £9.95 is for postage to Europe - you may have caught me mid-edit


The delivery choices on your website are "FREE P&P" or "Next Day Delivery" at £9.95 I see no mention that the "Next Day Delivery" charge is only if you do not live in the UK or that the "FREE DELIVERY ON EVERYTHING" in the UK includes Special Delivery?

Or have I missed something obvious somewhere?


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## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

dvdfever said:


> Can't you get it delivered to your workplace? Some places might charge extra for Saturday-specific delivery (I haven't checked out the options availabile, BTW, but I'd either get it delivered to my workplace or a relative's house)


I work in a hospital, and unfortunately anything I've ever tried to get delivered to work has gone missing. Instructions to delivery firms and hosp post rooms/receptions just not reliable.


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## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> Maybe we just should let the OP decide for himself what he wants to do, as the various options have now been put before him in mind-numbing detail
> 
> Cheers
> Steve


Guys!  Thanks for all the suggestions, advice and comment! I think I'll pay a little xtra and get itdelivered on a Sat.

Don't want to open a can of worms, but on Twitter I mentioned about my Tivo failure and some people were suggesting considering a Freesat HDR by Humax. Seems a tad expensive but a nice piece of kit and sort of tempting! think I'll patch up the Tivo in the short term and keep my eye on the Freesat HD PVR market which is sure to expand in the next 6-12 months


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

achookang said:


> on Twitter I mentioned about my Tivo failure and some people were suggesting considering a Freesat HDR by Humax. Seems a tad expensive but a nice piece of kit and sort of tempting!


It depends if you can put up with Season Passes that do not carry on from one series to the next and with only 7 days EPG data instead of 21 days and no Wishlists or Suggestions.

Also if you can put up with only BBC HD and ITV HD given that even C4 HD is currently not available on a Freesat HD PVR box (to get C4 HD you still need a Sky HD box as it remains an encrypted channel).


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Also if you can put up with only BBC HD and ITV HD given that even C4 HD is currently not available on a Freesat HD PVR box (to get C4 HD you still need a Sky HD box as it remains an encrypted channel).


Flip side, a Sky box doesn't give you ITV HD.

Swings, roundabouts.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Flip side, a Sky box doesn't give you ITV HD.


You are out of date. Sky HD boxes were upgraded to be able to receive ITV HD a month or two back using the Add Channel menus.

Although you can unfortunately only watch it live as an Other Channel and you can't use your Sky HD box to record it, at least for the time being............

See www.tellytoad.com/page/itv-hd-on-sky-hd.aspx

However on the whole I tend to regard the inability to view C4 HD at all on a Freesat HD PVR as being a far more serious omission than being unable to record the very limited hours ITV HD that primarily only airs live football games.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You are out of date.
> 
> ...
> Although you can unfortunately only watch it live as an Other Channel and you can't use your Sky HD box to record it, at least for the time being


Er, quite, so it isn't really available then is it?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Er, quite, so it isn't really available then is it?


ITV HD only comes on air to show live football games in the main and in the main people like to watch those football games live. Consequently very few people who have Sky HD will be bothered about not being able to record ITV HD programs. They would have been upset if they could not view them live and they liked footie.

Conversely C4 HD airs a large amount of HD content that is suitable for recording as it is not live sport events. As a Freeview HD PVR box owner you are going to be pretty upset you can't watch or record all the content on 1 out of 2.15 HD channels. (the 0.15 channels being ITV HD due to its limited hours).


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## achookang (Mar 27, 2002)

To be honest, my TV watching is fairly limited. Mostly BBC, seldom ITV, occasionally 4 or 5 mainly for US imports. Don't like much football, occasionally Virgin1, Sky 1, those are what I would "miss" if I switched from my limited Sky package to Freesat.

However I still think the overall HD range is quite limited. I would hope it increases with time.

I'm sticking with Tivo for now (if I can repair it with the HDD upgrade  )


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

achookang said:


> However I still think the overall HD range is quite limited. I would hope it increases with time.


It will probably be at least another 10 years before all new programs are made in HD. The gestation period for conversion seems to be similar to widescreen television.

There is quite a large range of HD television available so long as you are willing to pay a subscription of about £47 per month to Sky or buy lots of Blu Ray disks. But so far as Free to Air television is concerned and Freesat the choice is still very limited.



> I'm sticking with Tivo for now (if I can repair it with the HDD upgrade  )


The Tivo should work fine again once the hard drive is replaced with a new larger one.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> It will probably be at least another 10 years before all new programs are made in HD. The gestation period for conversion seems to be similar to widescreen television.


I don't think it will be as long as that; once the whole production process is HD enabled, then the final switch will happen quite rapidly, at least for the main channels. I think Freeview HD will be the final spur.



> There is quite a large range of HD television available so long as you are willing to pay a subscription of about £47 per month to Sky or buy lots of Blu Ray disks. But so far as Free to Air television is concerned and Freesat the choice is still very limited..


Getting better all the time though. For free stuff, this weekend has live coverage of the D-Day commemoration, tennis from Queens, Gardener's World, Hope Springs, Totally Saturday, Michael Macintyre's Comedy Roadshow and Jonathan Ross in HD on the BBC; Hollyoaks , Bear Gryllis Born Survivor, ER, Big Bang Theory and 8 out of 10 Cats on C4; Kingdom and Stephen Tompkinson's Balloon Adventure on ITV, plus a bunch of films.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> It will probably be at least another 10 years before all new programs are made in HD. The gestation period for conversion seems to be similar to widescreen television.


Did you see OfCom's press release about Freeview HD today:

"The service will include at 35% of native HD content at the start of 2010, rising to at least 60% at the start of 2012 and at least 70% at the start of 2014"


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> "The service will include at 35% of native HD content at the start of 2010, rising to at least 60% at the start of 2012 and at least 70% at the start of 2014"


I think that what they undoubtedly forgot to mention in that release is just how many of those hours will involve repeat showings of native HD content broadcasts previously broadcast earlier that week or month or year by BBC, ITV or C4. Or in the case of ITV HD there will either have to be a truly massive amount of repeats or the channel will simply only be on air for three hours every evening (thereby neatly sidestepping falling foul of any Ofcom percentage rules for either native HD broadcasts or percentage of channel content that is repeats).

Surely you know by now that there are lies, damn lies and then Ofcom lies.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Well the BBC is already at 100&#37; by that measure!

HD adoption will come with a rush, just like 16:9 did, and much sooner than 10 years from now.

When the world's fully HD, you can upgrade to a 16:9 SD set in safety.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> HD adoption will come with a rush, just like 16:9 did, and much sooner than 10 years from now.


But you ignore the huge back catalogue of quality SD films and tv programs that will continue to be aired for many years to come.



> When the world's fully HD, you can upgrade to a 16:9 SD set in safety.


I understand from Panasonic's latest advertising that all you chaps with older widescreen sets are in fact putting up with chronic motion blur that they claim to have eliminated in the latest units. So it seems that by waiting long enough I may be able to leap frog ahead of you all.

That is of course with the exception of Cyril who will always be right at the cutting edge since I know that he seems to buy a new tv or other new visual media device almost every other week for what must be his palatial London abode.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> But you ignore the huge back catalogue of quality SD films and tv programs that will continue to be aired for many years to come.


No such thing as an SD film Pete, all films are better than HD.

Obviously most old repeats will be SD, but that's not what we were talking about.



> I understand from Panasonic's latest advertising that all you chaps with older widescreen sets are in fact putting up with chronic motion blur that they claim to have eliminated in the latest units. So it seems that by waiting long enough I may be able to leap frog ahead of you all.


You believe everything you read in ads then Pete?

I've stared at 200Hz TV compared to 100Hz ones and buggered if I can see any difference.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> No such thing as an SD film Pete, all films are better than HD.


What about tv movies?



> I've stared at 200Hz TV compared to 100Hz ones and buggered if I can see any difference.


I believe many people are still also rather sceptical if 100hz is actually better than 50hz. So is this simply an evolution of the same debate?

Camera makers keep on bumping up the number of mega pixels as a cheap marketing feature even though the typical end user is very unlikely to ever benefit from more than 5 megapixels. So is this merely an example of the same kind of marketing man blatant cynicism?


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## Trinitron (Jan 20, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> I believe many people are still also rather sceptical if 100hz is actually better than 50hz. So is this simply an evolution of the same debate?


I think it's more than that. I had a Philips 100Hz set (what feels like) ages ago and preferred the softer 50Hz image, not that there was a whole lot of difference. When I migrated to an LCD telly, I opted for a Panasonic TX set over the cheaper LX model as it was supposedly better for rapidly moving images, like sport. Using the demo function on the set where they use a split screen to show the 'standard' and 'enhanced' images and scrolling text certainly shows a difference. I didn't think the LCD blurring was a direct function of the refresh rate, but I am happy to be proven wrong...


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> What about tv movies?


You said "quality" SD film...


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> I believe many people are still also rather sceptical if 100hz is actually better than 50hz. So is this simply an evolution of the same debate?


The difference between 50Hz and 100Hz is plain as day if you have two TVs next to each other, even if you don't suffer from "50Hz flicker sensitivity". 100Hz to 200Hz - I can't see it.



> Camera makers keep on bumping up the number of mega pixels as a cheap marketing feature even though the typical end user is very unlikely to ever benefit from more than 5 megapixels. So is this merely an example of the same kind of marketing man blatant cynicism?


There's a lot more to picking a camera than megapixels, and for holiday snaps you may be right. But if you want to be able to crop a pic or print it out larger than standard photo size the extra megapixels come in handy.

I don't think it's marketing cynicism in 200Hz's case, just an improvement which is marginal at best.

The true cynic might suggest it's you looking for reasons why your little, distorted blurry telly with the sides of the picture cut off is in fact still better.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> The true cynic might suggest it's you looking for reasons why your little, distorted blurry telly with the sides of the picture cut off is in fact still better.


I never claimed that it was better but only that it was adequate for the job and that the gain by going to HD and/or widescreen was much smaller than the huge gain in moving from black and white to colour.

For some reason I have just fallen victim to the huge con of buying a TomTom 940 Satnav. There were cheaper units but I got it down to £268 after all the cashbacks and discounts from TomTom, Dixons and www.topcashback.co.uk.

My reason for going for the top end unit is that it is the only one with HD traffic, notification of operating mobile camera vans (sent in by other TomTom users from their units) and the much enhanced HD Traffic service. Of course I will probably find it is all hopeless in practice but I find mobile camera vans a huge threat to one's driving licence and there is nothing better on the market at the moment.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Que?


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I find mobile camera vans a huge threat to one's driving licence .


It isn't the mobile cameras that threaten your driving licence it is you choosing to break the speed limits set by law


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> It isn't the mobile cameras that threaten your driving licence it is you choosing to break the speed limits set by law


D'oh, you bit!


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> D'oh, you bit!


Sorry I will go and stand in the naughty corner


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

TCM2007 said:


> I don't think it's marketing cynicism in 200Hz's case, just an improvement which is marginal at best.


The 200Hz is not actually really 200Hz of picture information. From what I have seen the picture is displayed as:

Frame -> black -> interpolated frame -> black

The black, sometimes supplied by turning off the backlight as well, is to reset the LCD cells to a known state. Also sometimes supplied by a moving black line @200Hz so not visible, take a picture at 1/200th and you will see the line eg Sony.

The "resetting" of the cells reduces motion blur (also only turn on back light when cells are ready) as well as the issue of incorrect colour rendering due to cells passing through "other colours" as they change and these other colours being very perceptable to human vision eg skin tones.

I saw a Sony 200Hz LCD next to a series 10 Panasonic plasma and was good. Didn't perceive any LCD blur, but the Sony couldn't display black, dark inky grey was its best. Of course this is not noticable in a shop due to excessing lighting levels and is only noticable in a viewing room and at home if ever you wanted to watch TV at night !!!. In the same scenes the Panasonic displayed black (actually a very very dark gray) if you look carefully, but considerably better than the Sony.

Now don't get me started on the 600Hz that Panasonic clam for their plasmas......


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## Onions2009 (May 7, 2009)

Oh cummon you know you want to get started on the 600hz claim  lol sorry


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Ian_m said:


> In the same scenes the Panasonic displayed black (actually a very very dark gray) if you look carefully, but considerably better than the Sony.


*Father Ted: *That's right, Dougal. You see, ordinary shops sell what look like black socks, but if you look closely, you'll see that they're very, very, very, very, very, very, very dark blue.
*Father Dougal: *That's true. I thought my Uncle Tommy was wearing black socks, but when I looked at them closely, they were just very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very dark blue.
*Father Ted: *Never buy black socks from a normal shop.
[Whispers to Dougal]
*Father Ted: *They shaft you every time!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Ian_m said:


> The 200Hz is not actually really 200Hz of picture information. From what I have seen the picture is displayed as:
> 
> Frame -> black -> interpolated frame -> black
> 
> ...


Interesting. I'll stick to my Pioneer plasma for now!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

By the way:

http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/news/912549/Sky-launch-UKs-first-HD-news-channel/
http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/news/912618/Five-launch-HD-TV-Freeview/


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> It isn't the mobile cameras that threaten your driving licence it is you choosing to break the speed limits set by law


They aren't set by the law or the Police though any more but by local Councils who keep on lowering them to meet political agendas sent down to them by New Labour that involve saying speed must be constantly lowered because they allege it will be "safer". But lowering speed limits year after year (especially on through A and B roads well outside village centres as is constantly happening) will also be hugely economically damaging due to vastly increase journey times for salesmen, delivery lorries etc but no one seems to ever take this in to account. Also what about people who drive for a living having heart attacks or committing suicide due to losing their livelihoods for driving in a manner that was previously perfectly safe and legal.

There seems to be no end thought point as to where this process stops but I presume if New Labour are not booted out next year and the lunatics from Brake and Roadpeace cut off from political influence that eventually under New Labour most cars would need a man with a red flag in front of them to proceed down any road other than a motorway.

Over in Texas they have just increase the speed limit to 80mph on one of their long distance freeways. And of course in otherwise regimented Germany they still have sections of autobahn with no speed limit. But nanny New Labour can't bear the thought of some people driving faster than others (or faster than the speed of the slowest) and ignores the fact that joy riders and car thieves having stolen the car can't be tracked any way and so don't care.


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