# Swanni says DirecTV will stop MPEG 2



## gtadell (Oct 20, 2003)

Check out Swanni's Q&A on what will happen when DirecTV adds more HD channels in MPEG 4. 
Q. When DIRECTV switches to MPEG4, will my TiVo HD DVR still work? -- Scott J.
DIRECTV is expected to switch all their high-def channels from the MPEG2 transmission system to MPEG4 later this year. At that time, you'll need a new HD DVR to record those channels.

This seems to go against some of the comments in this forum that say DirecTV will give us more time to make the switch. For instance, is NFL Ticket HD going to be MPEG 4 this year.
I am not ready to give up my HR10 Tivo at this point.

Here is Swanni's article:
http://www.tvpredictions.com/askswanni012507.htm


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## TimGoodwin (Jun 20, 2003)

Not gonna happen. At least not in 07.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's not quite accurate. What's happening is: 1. All NEW HD channels will be carried MPEG-4 only, from this point on. 2. EVENTUALLY (not this year), the MPEG-2 versions of the HD channels will probably be dropped.

At some point between 1 and 2, it's safe to assume that the channels currently in MPEG-2 will also start being carried in MPEG-4. Right now, only locals are in MPEG-4.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> It's not quite accurate. What's happening is: 1. All NEW HD channels will be carried MPEG-4 only, from this point on.


And that's not to say all current channels will also be broadcast in MPEG-4 along with current MPEG-2 versions.


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

It will be many years before ALL HD channels are broadcast in MPEG4. On a related note, it will be many years before even the _possibility _ of TIVO "shutdown" occurs, if it occurs at all. Federal law precludes this from happening.

Yes, there is a federal law that deals with discontinuance of products and their support.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> It will be many years before ALL HD channels are broadcast in MPEG4. On a related note, it will be many years before even the _possibility _ of TIVO "shutdown" occurs, if it occurs at all. Federal law precludes this from happening.
> 
> Yes, there is a federal law that deals with discontinuance of products and their support.


I wonder what the wording is exactly, they can still SUPPORT it, but it just may not be able to get HD channels, is there any reason they have to carry MPEG2, can't they just say that the tivo's can get regular channels?

Is there much difference is quality of 2 and 4?


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## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

And also the HD (& SD) OTA capability of the H10 will NOT be switching formats &/or shutting down - they will work for the foreseeable future, as long as D* keeps the D-Tivo's active anyway, which is the big thing for me. (since the OTA HD is better quality & is FREE!   )


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I don't believe there would be a problem with moving all HD to mpeg4 and shutting down the HD mpeg2 streams. The issue would just be how many boxes\dishes DTV would have to replace before they could do it.

DirecTV has moved plenty of channels in the past from an old sat to a new sat that only new equipment could pick up.

I don't believe the federal law would apply when DirecTV says, "We'll happily give you new equipment to replace the no longer supported equipment."


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> It will be many years before ALL HD channels are broadcast in MPEG4. On a related note, it will be many years before even the _possibility _ of TIVO "shutdown" occurs, if it occurs at all. *Federal law precludes this from happening*.


WTF???

Federal Law has nothing to do with how D* encodes its content for retransmission. If you are referring to MPEG-2 ATSC, then I have to ask WTF *THAT* has to do with D*?


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> It will be many years before ALL HD channels are broadcast in MPEG4. On a related note, it will be many years before even the _possibility _ of TIVO "shutdown" occurs, if it occurs at all. Federal law precludes this from happening.
> 
> Yes, there is a federal law that deals with discontinuance of products and their support.


I disagree that it will be many years. I think sometime in 2008 they could switch all HD channels to Mpeg-4. While TiVo will still be "supported" it wouldn't be able to record the mpeg-4 channels. There is no federal law that would stop them from switching plus DirecTV will probably upgrade most people to the HR20 or similar product for free.


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

Guys,

There is a little know federal law the requires companies to support, provide parts for, etc. for at least 7 years after discontinuance of a particular item. Remember just recently Microsoft ceasing support for Windows 98? They were permitted to do so 7 years after the product was discontinued.

If DirecTV tomorrow stopped activating TIVOs, for example, they would have to continue supporting them for at least the next 7 years, and this includes providing MPEG2 transmissions. 

Having been in an industry where there was constant obselescence and technological changes, my company learned the hard way when they once stopped supporting something only a few years after the item in question was discontinued. That forced us to consolidate production models to eliminate too many similar or same things.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> Guys,
> 
> There is a little know federal law the requires companies to support, provide parts for, etc. for at least 7 years after discontinuance of a particular item. Remember just recently Microsoft ceasing support for Windows 98? They were permitted to do so 7 years after the product was discontinued.
> 
> ...


I want to see the details that says they have to support a certain number of channels and all that.

Couldn't they either
1-have 1 mpeg2 channel
2-just allow non-hd channels, but your tivo still WORKS and can record all non-hd stuff (not sure about this one)
3-They still WORK and they SUPPORT them, but they don't have to be compatible with them

I have plenty of win98 stuff that doesn't run in XP, same thing isn't it???


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

Admittedly I'm not a lawyer, but having dealt with this directly as a manager in a reprographic industry, companies aren't permitted to get around the intent of the law by minimizing the suport to the point that it's virtually nonexistent. Furthermore, if a product is discontinued, the support that must be provided for 7 years has to keep the product functioning as it was originally designed. 

Providing just one MPEG2 channel wouldn't cut it.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> Admittedly I'm not a lawyer, but having dealt with this directly as a manager in a reprographic industry, companies aren't permitted to get around the intent of the law by minimizing the suport to the point that it's virtually nonexistent. Furthermore, if a product is discontinued, the support that must be provided for 7 years has to keep the product functioning as it was originally designed.
> 
> Providing just one MPEG2 channel wouldn't cut it.


show me ANYWHERE where it says that it has to have a certain # of HD channels, then i'll believe you.

It will still function as advertised
-record live tv
-record HD
-playback stuff
-pause
etc


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> Guys,
> 
> There is a little know federal law the requires companies to support, provide parts for, etc. for at least 7 years after discontinuance of a particular item.


Link?


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## moab747 (Jul 10, 2003)

That "7 year federal law" is mistakenly believed in the automotive industry also.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Nobody would waste their time taking up this case even if the law did apply as long as DTV was willing to swap out the old equipment for new.


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## jautor (Jul 1, 2001)

Regardless if there is such a law or not (I don't believe it until I see real proof), DirecTV has a very easy solution. 

"We're discontinuing support for that model - here'e a free HR20 as a replacement."

No way that wouldn't constitute "support" under anyone's legal definition.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Well, Swanni is partially correct. MPEG2 HD *WILL* but shutdown...eventually. Most likely mid 2008. I don't think anyone believes it will happen this year, just not enough MPEG4 receivers out there yet. Plus at CES DirecTV said that it's not going to do the change super fast, they can wait it out a bit for people to upgrade on their own.

I'd fully expect Sunday Ticket SuperFan in 2008 to be MPEG4 only as the last effort to get the last few stragglers to upgrade on their own.

As a side note, I still find it funny all the people that are suprised about this. It's been their published plans for about 3 years now.


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## mwl001 (Dec 5, 2002)

Here's my question on this...

I have an HR10, and I think it's fine that they force me to switch to an HR20 at no cost, BUT...

They had better give me an option that keeps me at the same service level WITHOUT extending my commitment, as they are changing the terms. I'd even be fine to pay something upfront. I at least want the option of leaving DirecTV at some point, and if they keep phasing out equipment every two years I'll be either paying for nothing at some point or overpaying for what I really want.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> There is a little know federal law the requires companies to support, provide parts for, etc. for at least 7 years after discontinuance of a particular item. Remember just recently Microsoft ceasing support for Windows 98? They were permitted to do so 7 years after the product was discontinued.


Using your own example against you, Support for Windows ME was discontinued on June 30, 2006. Windows ME was sold by MS until at least October 2001.

That's five years on my calendar!


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> Admittedly I'm not a lawyer, but having dealt with this directly as a manager in a reprographic industry, companies aren't permitted to get around the intent of the law by minimizing the suport to the point that it's virtually nonexistent. Furthermore, if a product is discontinued, the support that must be provided for 7 years has to keep the product functioning as it was originally designed.
> 
> Providing just one MPEG2 channel wouldn't cut it.


It seems to me that offering a free upgrade would cover them even if there was a law like you suggest.


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## DonDon (Jan 14, 2007)

If they do offer to upgrade, aren't the new receivers lease only. Will they have to "Waive" the lease fee indefinately, or just for a set period of time. What if the new equipment does not have the same features as the old?  

I believe that DTV will do whatever they damn well please, and will tie any "legal" issues up in court for so long the end result will be irrelevant.  

I'm sure they have a very competent legal staff. 

Don


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## ShiningBengal (Mar 19, 2001)

herdfan said:


> Using your own example against you, Support for Windows ME was discontinued on June 30, 2006. Windows ME was sold by MS until at least October 2001.
> 
> That's five years on my calendar!


ME will still run fine and do everything it ever did. The operating system isn't obsolete in that sense, nor are any of the programs written for it.

It's not like you need to buy something else to keep it doing what it did out of the box, you know.

Not a good analogy. Software isn't a manufactured item, and when you purchase it, you are not purchasing any rights to the software other than to use it. For instance, you cannot legally make copies of it and sell it. Sometimes licenses expire. Read the fine print on your license agreement. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on in a lawsuit.

(The fact that it was a piece of garbage out of the gate is not at issue here)


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

ShiningBengal said:


> Not a good analogy.


It was a perfect anology in the context of how Lord Vader was attempting to use Microsoft's support of Windows 98 as proof of his 7 year support theory.



Lord Vader said:


> There is a little know federal law the requires companies to support, provide parts for, etc. for at least 7 years after discontinuance of a particular item. Remember just recently Microsoft ceasing support for Windows 98? They were permitted to do so 7 years after the product was discontinued.


So I was merely pointing out that MS discontinued support of ME in less than 7 years. If the 7 year support theory applied to 98, then it applies to ME as well.

My analogy has nothing to do with ME, only the fallacy of his Windows example.


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## JoeyJoJo (Sep 29, 2003)

They won't need to support the HD-Tivo's and MPEG-2 forever or even for that long in my opinion. EVERY new HD channel will be MPEG-4. With the number of HD channels being added over the next year, anyone interested in more HD content will have to have an MPEG-4 Capable box. Sure you'll be able to use the HR10 but if it can't get all the new HD stations then HD will trump Tivo for most users.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

gtadell said:


> ...Here is Swanni's article:
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/askswanni012507.htm


I think if you look up "idiot" in Webster's dictionary, you might just get to see a picture of him.


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## tibber (Jan 6, 2004)

At CES, in the Q&A, D* stated that they will not be forcing users off the HR10 nor shutdown all MPEG2 HD anytime soon. It simply costs too much money and they would miss out of HR20 sales by redirecting those sales into replacements. They would rather the users make the transition on their own via the new HD offerings that will be MPEG4 only. This statement was paritially for the customers and partially intended for the market analysts. 

Now, they will continue to review their bandwidth usage. They might add a new HD channel to MPEG2 for the time-being, they might remove one that isn't showing high enough usage, or they might swap one for another. Tweaking very well might happen. Wholesale removal will probably not. (If it does, it won't matter to us Tivo owners--we won't be Tivo owners by then.)

BTW, I asked some of these same questions privately, to see if I could get a feel of how the "wind" might be blowing. Everyone gave the same basic answers. No one expects to turn off the HR10 HD in 2007 or early 2008. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I'm just amazed that anyone actually believes anything Swanni says.


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## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

Regarding the automobile example, I will need to research it, but I believe that the auto industry is required to manufacture spare parts for 7 years for each model year. But this equirement does not cross all commerce. Going back to the Microsoft example, Windows XP is not being supported in terms of no security patches unless you upgrade to SP2. IMHO, SP2 is not the same as the out-of-the-box install. The product sold to me is not being suported.

Intuit did not offer Y2K support on the DOS platform versions of their products, and they were not older than 7 years...


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

tibber said:


> At CES, in the Q&A, D* stated that they will not be forcing users off the HR10 nor shutdown all MPEG2 HD anytime soon. It simply costs too much money and they would miss out of HR20 sales by redirecting those sales into replacements. They would rather the users make the transition on their own via the new HD offerings that will be MPEG4 only. This statement was paritially for the customers and partially intended for the market analysts.


Perhaps you ought to explain this to herd, who seems to have his panties all in a twist over these ridiculous rumors.


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## Aquatic (Nov 26, 2002)

I think I would be fine if they moved all HD content over to MPEG4, forcing us to go to the new gear--PROVIDED they EOL'd the HR10s and dropped any and all costs associated, but left the infrastructure up--meaning I could still record OTA stuff, and any SD content coming across the dish. Hell, I'd probably be happy to not even record the SD stuff either, provided I could still do HD OTA for free or little cost.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dishrich said:


> And also the HD (& SD) OTA capability of the H10 will NOT be switching formats &/or shutting down - they will work for the foreseeable future, as long as D* keeps the D-Tivo's active anyway, which is the big thing for me. (since the OTA HD is better quality & is FREE!   )


i'm just reemphasizing this point because there are definitely others out there besides me that use HDtivo just for OTA/ SD and maybe hbo/sho. Except for losing 2 premiums, this doesn't affect me at all.

Plus DTV has always said new nationals would be on mpeg4 and i dont recall anything other than that being officially said.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

tibber said:


> At CES, in the Q&A, D* stated that they will not be forcing users off the HR10 nor shutdown all MPEG2 HD anytime soon. It simply costs too much money and they would miss out of HR20 sales by redirecting those sales into replacements. They would rather the users make the transition on their own via the new HD offerings that will be MPEG4 only. This statement was paritially for the customers and partially intended for the market analysts.
> 
> Now, they will continue to review their bandwidth usage. They might add a new HD channel to MPEG2 for the time-being, they might remove one that isn't showing high enough usage, or they might swap one for another. Tweaking very well might happen. Wholesale removal will probably not. (If it does, it won't matter to us Tivo owners--we won't be Tivo owners by then.)
> 
> ...


Yep. I think you'll see an intended shutdown of MPEG2 HD end of 2008, early 2009. Still less then 2 years though. If they feel they have enough MPEG4 receiver penetration by Sunday Ticket 2008 then that may go MPEG4 only as the final push to get people to switch. Then they can take their time shutting it down by summer 2009.

It depends on 2 things:
1) How much of the HD crowd have converted to MPEG4 on their own (and LOT will do so by this time next year if the 30+ new channels go up by years end).
2) How much pressure there is to add more SD channels and/or Interactive content to the main sats. Only shutting down MPEG2 HD will allow them to have the bandwidth to do it.

When those 2 things intersect is when the shutdown and upgrades will happen. I think late 2008 will be that time.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

I remember reading the Q&A from CES this month and the question about the end of MPeg2-HD was asked:

When do you anticipate shutting off MPEG2? 
At this point we are leaving it up to the customers, it won't be this year, but maybe in a couple years. We will see based on the customers pace. The longer they wait the less it will cost DIRECTV.

Source: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/live-coverage-from-directv-press-conference/

-h


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## Rcam10 (Apr 13, 2004)

I know at one time there was a law requiring support/parts for 7 years, but I'm pretty sure it was changed. I don't have any links and haven't bothered looking for the information, but I do know there was a law like that at one time. 

Years ago when NEC pulled out of the US market for certain electronics, mostly tv's I think, they had to keep a parts center open for that long. 

But these days there are electronics that don't have parts available at all, and after the warranty goes out if the company won't just offer something, then one is out of luck. Sure, there are plenty of companies that do have parts, most do, but lots don't. Also there are many that only keep parts for a few years. 

So if that law is still in effect, then its being ignored really bad, but again, I think it was changed. Maybe they changed it just for China imports, so they could take over easier.


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## jmoak (Jun 20, 2000)

bonscott87 said:


> Well, Swanni is partially correct. ...


Well, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I'm more worried my ABC station going back to vhf and me not having the right antenna in 2009, than worrying about this mpeg4 stuff


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## Krookut (Apr 7, 2002)

I just hope they've worked the bugs out of the HR20 by the time I'll need one, whenever that is.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

This 7 years thing....give me a break.
My original Sony receiver from 1996 couldn't see the "new" 119 sat and thus I had to upgrade to a new receiver if I wanted programming off that sat.

Dish has changed the way they offer HD at least twice, making receiver obsolete within a couple years of them being new. It's just the way it is.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

newsposter said:


> I'm more worried my ABC station going back to vhf and me not having the right antenna in 2009, than worrying about this mpeg4 stuff


Many UHF antennas work fine for upper VHF channels. I have a Channel Master 4228 that gets a strong a signal on VHF 9 as my U/V combo antenna. They are going to be moving from UHF 26 back to VHF 9 and it won't be a problem in my situation. What model of TV antenna do you have?


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## sluciani (Apr 21, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Well, Swanni is partially correct. MPEG2 HD *WILL* but shutdown...eventually. Most likely mid 2008. I don't think anyone believes it will happen this year, just not enough MPEG4 receivers out there yet. Plus at CES DirecTV said that it's not going to do the change super fast, they can wait it out a bit for people to upgrade on their own.
> 
> I'd fully expect Sunday Ticket SuperFan in 2008 to be MPEG4 only as the last effort to get the last few stragglers to upgrade on their own.
> 
> As a side note, I still find it funny all the people that are suprised about this. It's been their published plans for about 3 years now.


According to paragraph 12 of this Tivo SEC filing, the new maintenance agreement DirecTV signed with Tivo runs until 2/15/2010. Based on this fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the internal target date for weaning everyone off MPEG 2 isn't Q4 of 2009.

/steve


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

db8 wont see vhf wah


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## tony_ansley (Feb 26, 2002)

Lord Vader said:


> Guys,
> 
> There is a little know federal law the requires companies to support, provide parts for, etc. for at least 7 years after discontinuance of a particular item. Remember just recently Microsoft ceasing support for Windows 98? They were permitted to do so 7 years after the product was discontinued.
> 
> ...


This is NOT true. The computer industry is fraught with examples of products reaching End of Service Life as little as 18 months after End of Product Life. Examples include products from EMC, Compaq/HP, Dell, you name it.

Now, in most cases it is in the company's BEST INTEREST to support a product for at least 5 years after EOPL, but it does not always happen.


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

Yes, it is true, and your example is not what I was talking about.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

newsposter said:


> db8 wont see vhf wah


Verified:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

someone doubted me? I'm hurt


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

So if I'm reading this right the tivo will be extinct in 2 years for people switching to HD(which everyone is going to have to do pretty soon anyway). Will a stand alone Tivo then be the only way to have Tivo and DirectvHD?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Cudahy said:


> So if I'm reading this right the tivo will be extinct in 2 years for people switching to HD(which everyone is going to have to do pretty soon anyway).


No one has to switch to HD. Broadcasters have to give up there analog spectrum in a few years but that just means they will be broadcasting digital ATSC signals. Digital does not mean HD.


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## Seminole (Oct 27, 2003)

Krookut said:


> I just hope they've worked the bugs out of the HR20 by the time I'll need one, whenever that is.


I agree 100% with you on that


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Cudahy said:


> Will a stand alone Tivo then be the only way to have Tivo and DirectvHD?


Actually no. A Series 3 Tivo is for cable only. There is no stand alone Tivo that can record HD from either Sat provider (DirecTV or Dish).

The future is if you stay with DirecTV and want HD via sat you cannot use a Tivo. Been the plan for 3 years now (how many times have I said that?  )


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I didn't realize that Tivo has no plans to provide HDtivo to Directv subscribers. Since it will be all HD in a few years that means that Directv and Tivo will be totally incompatible. Hopefully Directv will come up with a box that closely resembles Tivo.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Cudahy said:


> Since it will be all HD in a few years


The conversion is to digital for over-the-air signals. That doesn't mean everything will be HD.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

newsposter said:


> someone doubted me? I'm hurt


It's almost refreshing to see that a veteran internet poster has yet to develop a thick skin  .

I don't think anyone doubted you. For my part, I was just trying to add concrete information to your brief, 5-word somewhat vague statement (only 4 of which I recognized as words). Just trying to help the cause.

Cheers


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

newsposter said:


> db8 wont see vhf wah





TyroneShoes said:


> It's almost refreshing to see that a veteran internet poster has yet to develop a thick skin  .
> 
> I don't think anyone doubted you. For my part, I was just trying to add concrete information to your brief, 5-word somewhat vague statement (only 4 of which I recognized as words). Just trying to help the cause.
> 
> Cheers


Well, one is *wont* to post as one will ...


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

drew2k said:


> ...*wont*...


Correction: THREE of which I recognized.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Cudahy said:


> I didn't realize that Tivo has no plans to provide HDtivo to Directv subscribers. Since it will be all HD in a few years that means that Directv and Tivo will be totally incompatible. Hopefully Directv will come up with a box that closely resembles Tivo.


Well, it's not a choice of Tivo. DirecTV dumped Tivo a couple years ago. Tivo can't make a DirecTV box without DirecTV's permission.

DirecTV's HR20 is very much like a DirecTivo minus dual buffers and advanced wishlists.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

And Charlize Theron is also very much like Rosie O'Donnell, minus the attitude and without the (utter lack of) sex appeal.

Two arms, two legs, one head, both walk upright. Each has two eyes, one on either side, nose in the middle, with a mouth below. Pretty much alike.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

LOL

Well, they both record season passes and they both do it flawlessly.

Pretty much all I need.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

No "dual buffers"? does that mean they only record one program instead of 2?


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

No, it has dual tuners.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

Watching DTivo with two tuners was a major selling point. Easy to get addicted to and cannot imagine giving up this feature.


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## bbodin (Jan 21, 2004)

bidger said:


> No, it has dual tuners.


It has 2 tuners, but right now you can't switch between the two like you can with Tivo...you have to actually be recording both programs in order to do it, or some crazy nonsense like that.

That's a serious BUG that they need to fix. After that is addressed, I may consider giving up my tivo for the new one.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

bbodin said:


> That's a serious BUG that they need to fix. After that is addressed, I may consider giving up my tivo for the new one.


Just to clarify, it's not a bug. It was designed that way in the first place. Dual buffers is something on their list to look at but I think it's a bit far down on the list at this point. You never know though, there has been a pretty big outcry for it.

I'd say if adding it doesn't kill some major reason why they did it then it probably has a good chance of getting added at some point. But if they didn't do dual buffers for a particular reason and to get around it causes stability issues then it probably won't make it.

We really don't know at this point.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

TyroneShoes said:


> And Charlize Theron is also very much like Rosie O'Donnell, minus the attitude and without the (utter lack of) sex appeal.
> 
> Two arms, two legs, one head, both walk upright. Each has two eyes, one on either side, nose in the middle, with a mouth below. Pretty much alike.


Post of the month.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

Cudahy said:


> I didn't realize that Tivo has no plans to provide HDtivo to Directv subscribers. Since it will be all HD in a few years that means that Directv and Tivo will be totally incompatible. Hopefully Directv will come up with a box that closely resembles Tivo.


Even after DirecTV moves all of their satellite HD programming to MPEG-4, the DirecTV HD TiVo unit will still record OTA HDTV (which will still be MPEG-2) and satellite SD channels (which will also be MPEG-2).

DirecTV has stated that the high costs involved (millions of receivers to replace) prevent them from migrating their SD channels to MPEG-4.

There are NO plans for changing broadcast (OTA) HDTV channels from MPEG-2.

DirecTV has a track record of supporting every receiver they have ever offered for as long as technically possible. These are gravy for them--loyal subscribers with little or no retention cost.

The software upgrades for the DirecTV HD TiVo's will likely stop sometime soon, but the frozen version will live on for a very long time, IMHO.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Yep, see the Ultimate TV boxes. Those things haven't been made for what, 5 years now, and DirecTV still supports them in that they get guide data and such. Of course if it breaks they can only replace it with a current model DVR (R15 currently) but they will replace it.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Yep, see the Ultimate TV boxes. Those things haven't been made for what, 5 years now, and DirecTV still supports them in that they get guide data and such. Of course if it breaks they can only replace it with a current model DVR (R15 currently) but they will replace it.


I'm guessing the Ultimate TV boxes haven't been upgraded in a while, but will get updates for the Daylight Saving Time change in March? Is there even anyone around that DirecTV can approach to write the update for those boxes?


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

drew2k said:


> I'm guessing the Ultimate TV boxes haven't been upgraded in a while, but will get updates for the Daylight Saving Time change in March? Is there even anyone around that DirecTV can approach to write the update for those boxes?


The ultimatetv.com web site is still touting the "Spring 2003 Upgrade"!
Pretty funny...


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I guess the most we can hope for is that Directv adds a few MPEG2 HD channels along with all the MPEG4 HD channels they're going to be adding this year. Do they really want to force all HDtivoers to trade in their expensive boxes in one year?


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

Cudahy said:


> I guess the most we can hope for is that Directv adds a few MPEG2 HD channels along with all the MPEG4 HD channels they're going to be adding this year. Do they really want to force all HDtivoers to trade in their expensive boxes in one year?


Yes, they do want you to trade in your box for theirs. DirecTV's strategy is to get everyone using the same boxes to make tech support much easier for them plus they won't have to pay TiVo part of your monthly DVR fee. There is no chance that they would add new HD channels in Mpeg-2.


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