# How big in size is the daily download..??



## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

Of course it varies from day to day.... but is the data downloaded say

0-500 Kb
1-2 Mb etc

Does anyone know anything on this?

I guess it varies on when the last download was done, i.e. a day ago or a week ago... but how much for a typical Sky + aerial, for an up to date Tivo...1 days download.?

Dave


----------



## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

Hmm. looks like either no one knows... last try...


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Hiya. Sorry, no idea. I don't even know if everyone gets the same info but then only the relevant bit for your platform is used, or it's individual to each platform. I would hazard a guess at less than 10mb myself.

I just tried to check my 'daily call' log but I couldn't even find it  Was trying to find out how long to calls lasted to try and approximate how much is downloaded.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Hiya. Sorry, no idea. I don't even know if everyone gets the same info but then only the relevant bit for your platform is used, or it's individual to each platform. I would hazard a guess at less than 10mb myself.


The data downloaded is individual to the platform you are on.

When I used to only use the phone line and had experience using the Tivo under Freeview, NTL and Sky Digital environments I found that the initial setup call for Sky and NTL took far longer than for Freeview, as also did downloading and then indexing the data from the daily call.

No idea on the size of the different daily data files though. However downloading a whole combined Sky and Freeview data set by phone for Guided Setup takes well over 20 minutes, just for the downloading of the data..


----------



## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> However downloading a whole combined Sky and Freeview data set by phone for Guided Setup takes well over 20 minutes, just for the downloading of the data..


You said you _used_ to use a standard phone line. Was your quoted 20 mins through that or the 'net because, of course, it makes a huge difference


----------



## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

Thanks for replying guys....

The main reason for asking this, relates to the fact I will be downloading the guide data via my mobile phone, and as such I am only interested in the regular daily download size, not the guided setup size.... this has already been done.

I need an idea of the size to work out costs.. I thought it would be around 256K.... 256K is a large amount of compressed data! Have you ever browsed 2.5Mb of text data!


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> You said you _used_ to use a standard phone line. Was your quoted 20 mins through that or the 'net because, of course, it makes a huge difference


20 or even 30 minutes to download Guided Setup data was through the phone line of course. No call ever takes more than a few seconds using the network connection. 

Although since I got the network connection I haven't actually had to rerun Guided Setup at all because I now also have Sky here, from which I can record the programs I used to move the Tivo box elsewhere to record once or twice a year.

The Tivo daily call always only sends you the actual data you need. For instance if you use dialup and you haven't downloaded data for 2 weeks your daily call takes many times as long as if your last daily download was yesterday.


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Bakdraft said:


> Thanks for replying guys....
> 
> The main reason for asking this, relates to the fact I will be downloading the guide data via my mobile phone, and as such I am only interested in the regular daily download size, not the guided setup size.... this has already been done.
> 
> I need an idea of the size to work out costs.. I thought it would be around 256K.... 256K is a large amount of compressed data! Have you ever browsed 2.5Mb of text data!


T-mobile has a fixed £1 per day unlimited data charge.
Works even on PAYG sims.

Psst. Also works on 3g


----------



## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

mikerr said:


> T-mobile has a fixed £1 per day unlimited data charge.
> Works even on PAYG sims.
> 
> Psst. Also works on 3g


£365 a year is a bit more than I expected 

No 3G coverage in Anglesey...

As I expect the download to be less than 256K, even @ 9600 baud it wont take long (3.55mins) and that is 106 mins per month. So I could get a contract to easily cover this or a reasonable price.


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

No, the £1 is pay as you go. 
Use it one day per year, charged £1.


----------



## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

mikerr said:


> No, the £1 is pay as you go.
> Use it one day per year, charged £1.


The problem is it is unattended for weeks at a time (in a caravan) and so to keep it up to date before return arival would mn daily updates...


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> The problem is it is unattended for weeks at a time (in a caravan)


Why not just take it home with you while the caravan is unattended.


----------



## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

RichardJH said:


> Why not just take it home with you while the caravan is unattended.


I am trying to avoid that... if I had to do that I may as well get Sky multiroom. As sometimes my wife will go with the kids... but without me... she will not manage the switch over... besides.. it wouldbe a lot of messing about..


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Bakdraft said:


> The problem is it is unattended for weeks at a time (in a caravan) and so to keep it up to date before return arival would mn daily updates...


As you presumably know the Tivo has up to 3 weeks of data but only a maximum of 2 weeks for BBC1, BBC2, ITV1, C4 and Five that is released once a week and dwindles down to 1 week before being renewed. If you have SPs etc Tivo will still record the stuff as long as it gets the data at least the night before the programs. So you don't need to download data daily. Once a week or even once a fortnight for Tivo downloading will do, if its the right day once a fortnight (Sunday I think) when the new BBC1 etc listings for the next week are released.

Tmobile basic WebnWalk at £1 per day only works for looking at data on the handset screens of specific models, even though it does support 2G handsets. It doesnt work with a SIM standalone in a data device like you are proposing here. There is a business tariff for that but its only on a monthly subscription basis at £20 per month or something.

Ultimately it seems bizarre you have electricity available to the door at this caravan park but not phone lines and this is the real issue you face. Surely its time to persuade the site that with laptop computers and the internet that life has moved on and people do need to have some kiind of fixed phone line connection they could share, although I suppose a shared wifi device from the landlord's home is more likely.

For what you want you would be better off with a Freeview PVR with a large hard drive where you just set up the recordings for the same time every week or better still one of the new Freeview Playback PVRS coming out in a few months time where there will be a Series Link facility available. Then you just pick the Freeview Playback Series Link and get the data via tv aerial. Problem solved.................

Unfortunately Tivo just wasn't designed to work in an environment where it can't make a phone call at least once a week or even once a fortnight (but it has to be the right day if fortnightly and the Tivo software unfortunately doesn't allow you to tell Tivo to only call fortnightly although if the phone isn't connected the call simply fails and Tivo tries again 24 hours later). If you leave Tivo for a month at a time with no new updating of data you will just miss some recordings.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

P.S On Vodafone they have a tariff called Stop The Clock where all weekend and after 7.30pm you pay for 3 minutes and get up to 60 minutes of calls but as you know the time when Tivo calls every day constantly changes...................

Vodafone PAYG also have a bolt on for £5 per month where you can make unlimited calls to up to four numbers but I wonder if 0800 will be excluded. Also they would be meant to be voice and not data calls but someone else said the Premicell only made the calls in a way that looks like voice and not data to the mobile networks?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Your only real solution is to get the landlord to move into the 21st century and have something like an 811N/Pre-N Wireless Router on his line and for all of you to then have 811N wireless bridges that can connect to it.

Although coming down the road in 2 or 3 years time should be WiMax (cheap wireless internet in many places) although who knows how long it would take to reach the depths of Wales.


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Tmobile basic WebnWalk at £1 per day only works for looking at data on the handset screens of specific models, even though it does support 2G handsets. It doesnt work with a SIM standalone in a data device like you are proposing here.


Beg to differ. I know quite a few people using the £1/day in a laptop data card daily for the past 2 months. Nothing special needed, it just works.
It isn't _officially_ supported though. You are _suppposed_ to use the £20/month contract for that.


----------



## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Ultimately it seems bizarre you have electricity available to the door at this caravan park but not phone lines and this is the real issue you face. Surely its time to persuade the site that with laptop computers and the internet that life has moved on and people do need to have some kiind of fixed phone line connection they could share, although I suppose a shared wifi device from the landlord's home is more likely.


The caravan is not a static... but a tourer... you do not get Telephones lines for tourer caravans. Persuading the owners to move to wifi is a long term possibility, but that has to be handled carefully to cover legal issues.

I want the Tivo... becuase I want more channels than freeview, but I do not really want to get into a contract with sky for multiroom for a minimum of 12 months and constantly have to move it back and forwards.

It is my intention to use a Premicell, as this solves all the problems and still gives me an internet connection foc albeit very slow.

My original questions relates to my concern over whether the daily calls would end up in a massive bill.

I agree a weekly call would do... but you cannot get Tivo to do that... and if I wait till I arrive, it would take a long time to download, and then a longer time to update. I also run the risk of season pass programs not recording If I go longer than 2 weeks before I return.

It is a lot of trouble.... but then a lot of things are until someone solves it, reports back to everyone else how it went etc...

It may be possible to put the premicell on a power timer to power up for 24 hours once every 7 days, and thus capture 1 daily update once a week, but this may not have an advantage if that cal is 7 times longer than 7 daily calls.

The premicell is also meant to be GPRS... this should significantly speed up the download.

My thinking was .... give the Tivo / premicell a try.. see how it goes, worst case, scrap the idea, sell the premicell, get multiroom.

But being a Tivo lover, ( Still better than my Sky HD box ) I want to use my second tivo.

It's funny, I thought loads of people would know the size of the daily download ( not exactly - and for sky platform ) but it seems nobody does.

The 3g/gprs card is a prefered solution, but 3g coverage does not exist, and the exorbitent costs put me off. I would also need to buy a 3g router or add a laptop, I would also need to get a cachecard.... all adding up to a lot.

So the premicell looks like the best starter...


----------



## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

The time of next call is in MFS, so you could write a hack to change it to one week ahead.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Beg to differ. I know quite a few people using the £1/day in a laptop data card daily for the past 2 months. Nothing special needed, it just works.
> 
> *It isn't officially supported though. You are suppposed to use the £20/month contract for that*.


Well that does sound interesting. How much for a laptop GPRS data card these days? Also do you think Tmobile will find a way to block this in due course?

My typical use is that I never need to use a mobile on the move for weeks on end and then would need to use a lot in one day if I could do at an affordable price withou a ball and chain contract. £1 to use the laptop on a long train journey would always be worth it.

What is their "Fair Use" daily data limit, after which you start to attract unwanted attention, and where could I read up on more details about this?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Bakdraft said:


> It may be possible to put the premicell on a power timer to power up for 24 hours once every 7 days, and thus capture 1 daily update once a week, but this may not have an advantage if that cal is 7 times longer than 7 daily calls.
> 
> The premicell is also meant to be GPRS... this should significantly speed up the download....


By George I think you've probably nearly got it. If you can set a digital timer to be on for 1 complete 24 hour cycle in 7 days. Then as you know if the Tivo can't make a call it simply reschedules for more or less 24 hours later. It never starts trying once an hour after that or anything.

If the Premicell only makes what appears to be a normal call to a mobile company then you probably need a SIM with the cheapest per minute dialup cost (TMobile Everyday 12p per minute) for voice 24/7, although if you were cunning and only had the Premicell run for 24 hours on a Saturday or Sunday the a Vodafone SIM with Stop the Clock might be the better bet. as then you only pay for 3 minutes and it doesn't matter how long the rest of the call takes (it won't be more than an hour). When I didn't download data for 5 or 6 days when My TIvo was stationed elsewhere (in a place where my relative had no phone socket anywhere near the Tivo and didn't want a cable trailled across her living room) then with NTL listings the call could take I think up to 8 or 10 minutes instead of 1 or 2 minutes.

If the Premicell makes a data call then you want a Tmobile SIM set up for WebnWalk and only dialling out once a week on the timer but that would cost £1 per time. My Vodafone Stop the Clock costs 5p per minute off peak so the call is limited to 15p for an hour. However new Vodafone SIMs and tariffs have put the off peak cost up to 10 per minute so that would be up to an hour for 30p if the call only counts as a normal phone call and not a data call. However you don't even want to think about using Vodafone PAYG for data. Just downloading four small emails in one go on a Sony Ericsson handset I have cost over £3 in calling credit.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Just remembered the Tivo number is an 0800 number which will exclude it from Vodafone Stop the Clock. You might be able to find a geographic 01/02 UUnet PoP number instead and then enter in to the dialling prefix on the Tivo so that will get used instead of the 0800 number though.

You might want to check how other mobile companies treat 0800 numbers. I think you will find TMobile Everyday classes 0800 as being premium rate at 40p per minute, instead of the regular 12p per minute for 01/02 and mobile phone calls.


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Well that does sound interesting. How much for a laptop GPRS data card these days? Also do you think Tmobile will find a way to block this in due course?


cheapest on ebay are the vodafone branded ones as they were given away free with new laptops on a promotion - careful to get an unlocked one though - around £50.

Another route is bluetooth data connection over your phone if you want a zero outlay method - that means swapping sims though.



> What is their "Fair Use" daily data limit, after which you start to attract unwanted attention, and where could I read up on more details about this?


According to http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/personal/pages.do/orphans/fairuse?WT.mc_id=fairuse&deeplink=fairuse fair use is apparently 30MB per day for PAYG

Get a free t-mobile sim here:
http://www.t-mobile-campaign.co.uk/sim/


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> According to http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/personal/pages.do/orphans/fairuse?WT.mc_id=fairuse&deeplink=fairuse fair use is apparently 30MB per day for PAYG
> 
> Get a free t-mobile sim here:
> http://www.t-mobile-campaign.co.uk/sim/


OK thanks Mike.

30MB won't give you exactly totally unlimited web surfing, although is loads for normal emails. Also ok for some web surfing and then turn graphics off if you are going to be doing a lot surfing I suspect.

Do they cut you off at 30MB or just start sending lots of cross letters suggesting you use less in future at that point.

What I really need now is an unlocked Bluetooth enabled phone with a dual SIM holder as Vodafone PAYG with Passport is still the cheapest way to make phone calls in other EU countries. Also unfortunately WebNWalk turns into WebNExtortion at £7 per MB or something if you set foot across the English channel.....................


----------



## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

Web-n-walk is severely limited.. from their FUP:

"Not to be used for other activities (including but not limited to) : modem access for computers, internet based video/audio streaming services, peer to peer file sharing, internet based video downloads, internet phone calls and instant messaging"

In theory you can't even browse youtube on it.. computer access (which the tivo is) is specifically prohibited.

They do a plus version for £32.50/month (plus mobile phone contract charge of course) that isn't limited in that way... it's kinda expensive for a tivo though.


----------



## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

I've not heard of anyone getting any contact from overuse, and some of have used it for remote desktop half the day !

Tony: as I said, not officially supported, but not actively policed either. I doubt they are bothered unless you start running torrents on it


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Its actually 40MB per day now but they do rant on about not using it for modem use for a computer. Still why should they care as long as you don't exceed the 40MB you are in any case allowed to use on one of their miserable WebNWalk handset screens?



> *T-Mobile defines fair use as total UK data (both sent and received) of up to 40 MB per day. T-Mobile may contact customers who exceed 40MB of data and ask them to reduce their usage*. If data usage is not reduced, notice may be given, after which network protection may be applied. *Not to be used for other activities (including but not limited to) : modem access for computers,* internet based video/audio streaming services, peer to peer file sharing, internet based video downloads, internet phone calls and instant messaging. If such use is detected, notice may be given after which network protection controls may be applied. The application of network protection controls will result in a reduced speed of transmission


----------

