# 5 lnb dish



## heelsfinl4 (Jul 30, 2003)

I recently spoke with a D tv rep. about updating to the HD-DVR (10-250?). I was at first told that a 5 LNB dish would be installed with this, thereby making it easy to switch boxes when the new mpeg4 hd dvr comes out. However, at the end of the conversation, she said it would be a triple LNB dish that is installed, because the current hd dvr isn't compatible with the 5 lnb dish. Is this true? I don't want to have a triple lnb installed, and then have to replace it again in a few months. I'm just getting impatient about getting this whole thing done. Thanks in advance


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

The HD DirecTivo is compatible with the 5 LNB dish. You won't be able to see the extra 2 satellites with that receeiver, but even if you could, it couldn't do anything with the MPEG-4 channels anyway. Call them back and tell them you want the 5 LNB dish.


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## heelsfinl4 (Jul 30, 2003)

thanks. I thought it was compatible also. I don't know why they told me it wasn't. sometimes Iwonder if those people know anymore than Ido about this stuff!


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## heelsfinl4 (Jul 30, 2003)

I did have one other concern. If the 10-250 dvr is compatible with the 5 lnb dish, and I get it now, when the new mpeg4 dvr comes out, will it just be a matter of switching boxes out? Or will the installer need to comme out again to rewire the satellite dish to make it compatible with the new box? Thanks


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## Wirelezz (Jan 27, 2006)

One word answers:  


heelsfinl4 said:


> ... will it just be a matter of switching boxes out?


Yes.



heelsfinl4 said:


> Or will the installer need to comme out again to rewire the satellite dish to make it compatible with the new box?


Maybe.

EDIT: Actually, it's quite possible that a rewire will be required. Read my post #25 below to find out why.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

When they install the dish, they should run new cabling and install the new switch(es) if necessary, whether your current box is MPEG-4 compatible or not. Make sure they install cable that's rated for 250MHZ-2150MHZ and the correct multiswitch (WB68). Then it will be just a simple receiver swap out.


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## heelsfinl4 (Jul 30, 2003)

When you say "rewire", do you mean that the normal wiring I currently have isn't right? I currently have RG6 wires to my current dvr. These are behind conduit in my place, and I would hate to have to replace them. I also have a digital multiswitch. Thanks


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

It's *possible* you may need new cable. If your current cable isn't rated for the new higher and lower frequencies, it won't pass the signals from the MPEG-4 satellites.


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## tbb1226 (Sep 16, 2004)

Also, I believe your existing multiswitch will need to be replaced for the 5 LNB system?


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

Anything that needs to be done, including new cable and/or a switch, is included with the install.


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## heelsfinl4 (Jul 30, 2003)

How would I know if I would need new cable? I understand that the cable and the multi-switch would be included in the new install, but I'm concerned about the cable that goes from my multi-switch to the back of the dvr. It is hidden behind conduit and it runs along my ceiling to the receiver. I had it done for me, and wouldn't have a clue how to redo it! I understand a little about electronics, but I'm not the handiest person in the world! Thanks


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## tbb1226 (Sep 16, 2004)

The official specification for the new receivers is RG6 with solid copper center conductor, but a short run of RG6 with plated center conductor shouldn't cause a problem. I'd leave it alone, as long as it's RG6 (especially since you're not installing an MPEG4 system).


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## elvisisded (Apr 7, 2001)

How many lines can be run directly to the 3 lnb dish?


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

4 lines can be run directly to either the Phase III or the AT-9 (5 LNB) dishes, without the use of a multiswitch.


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## Beckzilla (Jan 27, 2005)

kturcotte said:


> It's *possible* you may need new cable. If your current cable isn't rated for the new higher and lower frequencies, it won't pass the signals from the MPEG-4 satellites.


What are you saying exactly? I thought that all RG-6 cable was compatible with MPEG-4. I am currently using RG-6 Quad Shield which is the highest quality cable out there that I know of.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Beckzilla said:


> I am currently using RG-6 Quad Shield which is the highest quality cable out there that I know of.


It may be RG-6U, but it can come with different ratings. The stuff they used for my Wildblue satellite Internet (Ka band) is rated at 3GHz (printed right on the cable). They would not use the RG-6U I already had run as it was only rated to 2.2Ghz (as I recall). The cable was included in the install, so it wasn't like they were trying to sell me 'snake oil'.


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## robryan (Apr 19, 2006)

I called Directv yesterday. I just had instaled 5 LNB and H20 receiver.asked to upgrade to HD DVR was told they would have to come out and install 3 LNB dish. 5 LNB would not work with the current HD DVR. it was designed to work with the new mpeg 4 receiver.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

The 5 LNB dish will work with the HD DirecTivo. You just won't be able to see anything that's on the extra 2 satellites with that receiver.


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## cgove1 (Dec 21, 2004)

I have the 5 LNB dish and have a HR10-250, H20, D11 and R10 all working fine with it. I didn't have any cable changed when they installed it. I think I did get a new 6x8 multi-switch but I'm not positive.

BTW, it was a PITA to get them to install the 5 LNB dish. The first 2 installers didn't want to (or didn't know how to) install it. The 3rd said I had line of sight issues but installed it anyway and everything is working fine I'm getting my locals in HD on the H20 unit without a problem.


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## talbain (Jul 31, 2002)

i thought they stopped installing 3 lnb dishes anyway...


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## JDAWG11 (Jun 4, 2003)

How much does the upgrade to 5lnb cost?


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

I didn't pay anything for the upgrade.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

kturcotte said:


> I didn't pay anything for the upgrade.


But don't they require another 2 year commitment?


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

That I don't know. I got an H20 receiver with the dish, and agreed to either a 1 or 2 year (Can't remember) commitment. Don't know if I would have had to with just th dish. Call Directv and ask them. The worst that can happen is they'll want to charge you for the dish, or try and give you a commitment, and you can say no.


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## Wirelezz (Jan 27, 2006)

I've reviewed the AT9 (5 LNB) dish D* training video which is periodically on D* CH 578 (It's called the "KaKu Video Broadcast"), and solid copper core RG6/U is definitely required. So if an install is or was done with the 3 LNB dish it's more than likely that the cheaper copper plated steel center conductor RG6 will have been used in that install and will NOT meet the requirements of the AT9 dish.

However, the reason has little to do with the broader frequencies used in the AT9 dish (250MHz - 2150MHz), but rather it is because the 5 LNB dish demands more current to operate than does the 3 LNB dish. As you all probably know, the LNB array is powered by the receiver, and there is too much resistance/attenuation (line loss) with the copper plated steel core RG6 to power the higher current demand requirements of the 5 LNB dish.

Bottom line: If your having an AT9 dish installed with an HR10-250 receiver make sure the installer is installing highest quality solid copper center conductor RG6 cable which is required to power the AT9 dish. Also, much higher quality cable connectors are required than were previously used in a typical 3 LNB installation.

This Dual 2.2GHz RG6 Cable would be an ideal choice for an AT9 install.


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## dhking (Apr 24, 2006)

I've got a 5 LNB dish and have everything from an H20, HR10-250, Three older non HD tivos and even an old RCA 2nd generation receiver all working off of the 5 LNB. It will work, with the 10-250 so tell them you want the 5 lnb. But, know that the thing is LARGE. My wife nearly had a conniption over it. And, the installers don't like dealing with them. They refused to install in on the roof where my 3 lnb dish was. The said it was too heavy - which was BS if you ask me. I was not home so my wife called with that new and told me where they wanted to put it, I suggested a more discrete location and she reported that he said he could not get a clear line of sight from my location (which requried mounting the dish to one of the legs of my deck). But when I looked at it the line of sight from my location was better than where he put it. He had that thing aiming directly at a birch tree (which was fine in winter, but when that thing filled out with leaves in the spring I was not going to get signal). He also stuck a pole in the ground in the middle of my yard and mounted it to the pole. Note that he just hammered this pole into the ground, no concrete, etc. It would actually wobble when the wind blew. So it was too heavy for he roof but not for the wobbly pole. Anyway, I moved it to the more discrete, and incidentally, much more stable location, with a clearer line of sight and all is well with all types of receivers conntected.

Moral of the story: The installers are largely unskilled guys with schedules that are cram packed with more installs than they can possibly get to, so they default to what is easiest for them, not what is best for you.


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## Wirelezz (Jan 27, 2006)

dhking said:


> I've got a 5 LNB dish... But, know that the thing is LARGE. My wife nearly had a conniption over it. And, the installers don't like dealing with them. They refused to install in on the roof where my 3 lnb dish was. The said it was too heavy - which was BS if you ask me.


There is a second generation AT9 which is much smaller & lighter:

Check out <this thread>


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## Scott in CO (Oct 27, 2003)

If the 5lnb dish requires more power, and if you already have long runs of steel-core RG6 in place, could you compensate for the power to the dish in one or both of these ways?:

1) Use more than one receiver. The receiver supplies the power to the new unpowered 6x8 multiswitch and the dish, so if you had several receivers like many of us do, would that compensate for any power loss due to long runs of steel-core cable?

2) Cascade a powered 4x8 switch off of the new unpowered 6x8 switch for any standard definition receivers. Would this help supply necessary power to the dish?


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## Wirelezz (Jan 27, 2006)

Scott in CO said:


> If the 5lnb dish requires more power, and if you already have long runs of steel-core RG6 in place, could you compensate for the power to the dish in one or both of these ways?:
> 
> 1) Use more than one receiver. The receiver supplies the power to the new unpowered 6x8 multiswitch and the dish, so if you had several receivers like many of us do, would that compensate for any power loss due to long runs of steel-core cable?


Basic electrical theory would say no (Ohms law: I=ER). It does not matter how much source power is available. Multiple receivers are not going to increase the available voltage at the source (current/amperage yes; voltage no) and the excessive resistance of the steel center conductor is still going to cause a significant voltage drop.



Scott in CO said:


> 2) Cascade a powered 4x8 switch off of the new unpowered 6x8 switch for any standard definition receivers. Would this help supply necessary power to the dish?


I don't have any experience with powered switches, so I couldn't say. I'd have to see a spec sheet on the switch and a schematic of how it would be wired in to make a judgment.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Wirelezz said:


> Basic electrical theory would say no (Ohms law: I=ER). It does not matter how much source power is available. Multiple receivers are not going to increase the available voltage at the source (current/amperage yes; voltage no) and the excessive resistance of the steel center conductor is still going to cause a significant voltage drop.


Not exactly true since each receiver would have it's own separate cable to the dish thus decreasing resistance and increasing current. FWIW, I'm using regular RG6U with 70' runs and it's working fine. Even though I don't have any MPEG4 receivers yet, the LNBs would still be powered. The BWmay be an issue later but the cable runs are easy enough to replace.

As for the size, here it is next to my old 3 LNB dish.


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## Wirelezz (Jan 27, 2006)

Mark Lopez said:


> Not exactly true since each receiver would have it's own separate cable to the dish thus decreasing resistance and increasing current.


Good point. Of course multiple cable runs would reduce the overall resistance. :up:

Another point I didn't make is that the lower frequencies used in the 5 LNB dish are very susceptible to interference from OTA UHF signals and nearby Cable TV signals (not a problem with the 3 LNB dish). So the best quality quad shielding is recommended as well.

I think it's a moot point however. The reason to move up to the 5 LNB dish in the first place is to receive the MPEG4 locals. Every CSR I have spoken to regarding this upgrade has told me that they insist on a "professional" install of the 5 LNB dish (assuming the AT9 is provided by D*, most likely along with the new HR20 receiver) when this transition becomes a reality. So one would assume that the installer would upgrade the cable runs as a normal part of the installation.

I for one will fight this tooth and nail as I have always done my own installations (since 1994!).


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Wirelezz said:


> I for one will fight this tooth and nail as I have always done my own installations (since 1994!).


Schedule the install.

When the installer shows up, give him a $20, tell him to go have lunch on you,
have him leave the dish and maybe a little cable, then install it yourself.

When he gets back from lunch, sign off on the install, everybody's happy.

phox


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

Wirelezz said:


> I for one will fight this tooth and nail as I have always done my own installations (since 1994!).


You can always do like I did and just buy it yourself and install it yourself ahead of time. Alignment is not really that hard and worse case, the installer might have to just tweak it a bit. I can't imagine any installer caring if 99% of the work is already done when he shows up. You might even be able to get him to leave you the dish he was going to install and then you can e-bay it or keep it for parts.



Wirelezz said:


> The reason to move up to the 5 LNB dish in the first place is to receive the MPEG4 locals.


True, but one of the reasons I installed mine now was because of the reports I have read claiming the new dish is less susceptible to rain fade. Of course it actually needs to rain before I can confirm that.


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## Wirelezz (Jan 27, 2006)

phox_mulder said:


> Schedule the install.
> When the installer shows up, give him a $20, tell him to go have lunch on you,
> have him leave the dish and maybe a little cable, then install it yourself.
> When he gets back from lunch, sign off on the install, everybody's happy.
> ...


phox, you and I think alike!  The only problem with that is I live 45mi. west of Denver in a relatively unpopulated area in the Rockies. There's really nowhere for the installer to go for lunch! He most likely will have already drove for an hour just to get to my house! 



Mark Lopez said:


> You can always do like I did and just buy it yourself and install it yourself ahead of time. Alignment is not really that hard and worse case, the installer might have to just tweak it a bit. I can't imagine any installer caring if 99% of the work is already done when he shows up. You might even be able to get him to leave you the dish he was going to install and then you can e-bay it or keep it for parts.


I've often though that in my case this would be the way to go. I've installed a few DirecWay Sat dishes for neighbors (I have an accutrack signal meter), so I'm sure the AT9 would be a piece of cake compared to that. My hope is that I can convince D* that the AT9 dish is already installed and persuade them to just FedEx the HR20 receiver when it becomes available. Well see...


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