# DIAL Support



## takeagabu (Oct 7, 2007)

Does anyone know if it is an open standard and will work with any software? Will we be able to use chromecast software to push youtube and netflix videos? And can we pun the chrome browser? If so, this is going to be huge.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yes DIAL is an open standard. I'm not sure how the TiVo support will work, but it sounds like each app will have to support it so they may not have a generic app capable of doing simple mirroring like the Chromecast. Although it would be pretty awesome if it did.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

In theory, DIAL should work on the TiVo out of the box with Netflix and YouTube. Both of those apps have DIAL baked in.

I am not aware of any other apps that support DIAL right now but since DIAL is how the Chromecast works, every chromecast that gets sold increases the odds of it working on a Roamio too.


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

Oh! DIAL and Chromecast, now that would be interesting. But wouldn't that negate the need for a Mini?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

DIAL is slightly different in that it uses an already installed app. Chromecast hosts actually download a HTML5 app from a remote location at runtime. I think many of the communication protocols are the same however.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

rainwater said:


> DIAL is slightly different in that it uses an already installed app. Chromecast hosts actually download a HTML5 app from a remote location at runtime. I think many of the communication protocols are the same however.


Chromecast is just DIAL with a chrome browser as the content player for 100% of the content. The browser downloads the HTML5 app and plays it.

I mean, it's still using DIAL to tell the Chromecast "play youtube" and chromecast is going "Ok, I play youtube with (looks) the chrome browser! I'll get on that! Man, I feel like I play everything with the chrome browser..."

DIAL would just tell the TiVo "play youtube" and the TiVo goes "OK! I play Youtube with the YouTube app! I'll get on that!"

That is how DIAL works. You just tell the device what it is you want to play, and the device figures out how to play it.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

P42 said:


> Oh! DIAL and Chromecast, now that would be interesting. But wouldn't that negate the need for a Mini?


No... you don't cast the TiVo to the Chromecast. Chromecast and TiVo are both dial, uh, sources? servers? not sure what the right word is. They are both things you send stuff too.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Grakthis said:


> Chromecast is just DIAL with a chrome browser as the content player for 100% of the content. The browser downloads the HTML5 app and plays it.
> 
> I mean, it's still using DIAL to tell the Chromecast "play youtube" and chromecast is going "Ok, I play youtube with (looks) the chrome browser! I'll get on that! Man, I feel like I play everything with the chrome browser..."
> 
> ...


Based on what we've heard it sounds like TiVo does the same thing except it uses a version of Opera instead. But I don't know how the Chrome mirroring thing works with the Chromecast. I'm not sure if it uses standard DIAL protocols or if it's using some proprietary trick of the Chrome browser.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Grakthis said:


> Chromecast is just DIAL with a chrome browser as the content player for 100% of the content. The browser downloads the HTML5 app and plays it.
> 
> I mean, it's still using DIAL to tell the Chromecast "play youtube" and chromecast is going "Ok, I play youtube with (looks) the chrome browser! I'll get on that! Man, I feel like I play everything with the chrome browser..."
> 
> ...


Yes. I understand how DIAL works. But I think people shouldn't have expectations that Chromecast apps on mobile devices are going to magically cast to a TiVo.


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

Thanks for the clarification Grakthis


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Yes. I understand how DIAL works. But I think people shouldn't have expectations that Chromecast apps on mobile devices are going to magically cast to a TiVo.


They will, if it's an app that TiVo recognizes and knows where to direct the request to.

I mean, I agree about managing expectations... it's definitely something good for us to do for people who don't get the technologies.

But between you and I... if Dan is right and the reports are right and the tiVo is running an Opera browser and supports HTML5, there is literally no technological reason why the TiVo can't literally run everything that Chromecast runs and likely the only reason TiVo hasn't jumped in to that as a marketing thing is because the Chromecast SDK isn't even done yet.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

rainwater said:


> Yes. I understand how DIAL works. But I think people shouldn't have expectations that Chromecast apps on mobile devices are going to magically cast to a TiVo.


It really depends on how that generic Chromecasting works. If it actually uses DIAL and not some proprietary extension of Chrome then it might.

However it should support casting of YouTube and Netflix out of the box. Both the apps available on iOS/Android and the TiVo apps will support it, so those should work day 1. The only question is if the generic mirroring available on the Chromecast will work with a TiVo or not. I guess we'll see.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> Based on what we've heard it sounds like TiVo does the same thing except it uses a version of Opera instead. But I don't know how the Chrome mirroring thing works with the Chromecast. I'm not sure if it uses standard DIAL protocols or if it's using some proprietary trick of the Chrome browser.


Yeah, if I were guessing, I think that's proprietary to the chrome browser and not a standard HTML5 thing. I may be wrong, but i wouldn't bet on that feature coming to any other DIAL devices.

But if all the other big dogs start putting together HTML5 apps to support Chromecast, every one of those suddenly becomes a usable thing for a TiVo as well.

And that is a killer app for TiVo. To be able to say "if you can chromecast it, you can DIAL it to a TiVo too." That's compelling.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Grakthis said:


> They will, if it's an app that TiVo recognizes and knows where to direct the request to.


AFAIK, Google has to whitelist any apps that want to support it. Since the SDK isn't final, they have yet to do that with any apps (other than Youtube, Netflix, and their own Google Play apps). I think in the future you may see Google try to extend Chromecast to televisions and STBs, but for now, I don't believe we will see any Chromecast support on TiVos for the foreseeable future.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

The Roamio line supports DIAL out of the box, meaning ANY application that supports DIAL (And has a companion application on the Roamio) will work out of the box with TiVo with no modifications necessary. Netflix and YouTube already work with the Roamio and once Hulu adds DIAL support to their mobile apps, it will likely "Just work" with the TiVo.

The ONLY exception to this rule is "Casting a Chrome Tab", this is something that Google implemented on their own and is not part of the Dial standard. TiVo has suggested that they are open to adding that functionality but are waiting to gauge user demand.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Philmatic said:


> The ONLY exception to this rule is "Casting a Chrome Tab", this is something that Google implemented on their own and is not part of the Dial standard. TiVo has suggested that they are open to adding that functionality but are waiting to gauge user demand.


It would be cool. However, while the DIAL API is open, I'm guessing actual Chromecast support will require a license agreement with Google. So I would take what TiVo said with a grain of salt.


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## bayern_fan (Aug 12, 2013)

*fingers crossed for a Plex client*


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Plex is pretty cool. I used it recently to watch the last season of Top Gear I downloaded from BitTorrent. Worked pretty good and I didn't have to do any conversion to get them on my TiVo like I usually do.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

rainwater said:


> AFAIK, Google has to whitelist any apps that want to support it. Since the SDK isn't final, they have yet to do that with any apps (other than Youtube, Netflix, and their own Google Play apps). I think in the future you may see Google try to extend Chromecast to televisions and STBs, but for now, I don't believe we will see any Chromecast support on TiVos for the foreseeable future.


Ok, we're having some several language problems here, and I am not helping things. Let's nail some stuff down, ok?

Chromecast is a device, not a standard or a communication method.

DIAL is the method that chromecast devices use to receive commands to show media.

DIAL is a completed standard, implemented on multiple devices and on multiple apps. I have used DIAL to launch Youtube on other devices.

Chromecast is a device which recieves DIAL commands and directs all of them to the Chrome browser.

Google has released an SDK to make it super easy to send DIAL commands to the Chromecast device. That SDK is not yet final and it is entirely possible (likely? I have not reviewed the sniffed packet data that has since hit the internet) that the Chromecast uses some non-standard DIAL based commands for some of its features. However, none of that would in any way stop TiVo from supporting DIAL for all of the same software that can use DIAL to send commands to a Chromecast.

It would be trivial for, let's say, Pandora, to support TiVo as well as Chromecast for their DIAL protocol, assuming TiVo works by running an Opera Browser. All of the work would be done (The HTML5 interface, the DIAL communications layer, etc) they would just have to correctly sniff the TiVo as a DIAL device and send the correct packets to it.


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## brentil (Sep 9, 2011)

This is the official DIAL specifications website.

http://www.dial-multiscreen.org/


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Ok, so, i went ahead and read a bit of the DIAL spec just to get an idea of what all Chromecast might be supporting that goes over and above the base DIAL spec.

The Google Cast API includes additional media controls that are NOT part of the DIAL spec.

So, if TiVo wanted to use the Google Cast API to let you control media playback on a TiVo so that app developers could use the Google Cast API to support the TiVo, then yes, they would have to work with Google for this.

However, if TiVo simply wants to support DIAL (which does nothing but launch the app and point it to the correct media) they need no permission from Google, no whitelist, no SDK, nothing. DIAL is a completed and free and open interface.

If you get your Roamio tomorrow, there is no technological reason why, when you pull up your youtube app on your phone, it won't show the Roamio in the list of screens you can play the video on. And when you hit play, it should launch the youtube app on the Roamio and start playing that video.

You will not be able to pause, stop, rewind, etc. from your phone. But you can LAUNCH youtube and play the video.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I think it's pretty clear that if TiVo has an app for a service and the companion app for that service on iOS/Android supports DIAL then you'll be able to cast it to the TiVo.

The only question mark is if the whether the Chrome tab mirroring is something standard that TiVo can emulate, or if it's something proprietary to Google. If it's part of the standard then I'm sure TiVo will support it. If it's something Google did specific for the Chromecast then we wont.


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## SeaFractor (Apr 16, 2013)

Grakthis said:


> Chromecast is just DIAL with a chrome browser as the content player for 100% of the content. The browser downloads the HTML5 app and plays it.
> 
> I mean, it's still using DIAL to tell the Chromecast "play youtube" and chromecast is going "Ok, I play youtube with (looks) the chrome browser! I'll get on that! Man, I feel like I play everything with the chrome browser..."
> 
> ...


I own a Chromecast and also a Tivo Premiere.

I thought I'd chime in and clarify some things real quick.

1. ChromeCast does not "require" a Chrome Browser to stream content from applications that support Chromcast (Google's implementation of DIAL).

For example, I'll load Youtube on my Nexus 10 tablet and click on the icon to select the disply, one shows my Chromecast and another shows my Vizio smart TV. I select the chromecast and then click on play, the video is displayed on the TV and I can even "TURN OFF MY TABLET" without interruption to the video.

Works great for NetFlix and is my work around for the craptastic Premiere Netflix app.

So Chromecast on my tablet is like DIAL would just tell the Chromecast "play youtube" and the Chromecast goes "OK! I play Youtube directly from the Youtube web source without a Chrome browser! After all Google 'owns' Youtube and is intimately familiar with the App."

2. Chromecast will work with a Chrome browser on a PC or MAC to stream "any" video content to the Chromecast without a browser boarder on the TV. Thus video content without an "app" can still be used via a Chrome browser.

It's the ability to work directly with the Chrome browser and because it has Chrome in it's name that one is easily confused into thinking it runs everything from an internal Chrome browser on the dongle. In fact on XDA devs, which has rooted the device, it actually runs...... Android. The Chrome is more of a marketing name than to indicate that it runs the Chrome OS on the dongle. Currently I still only see the Chrome OS actually on Chromebooks.

3. Tivo, if they chose to and implemented it using Google's SDK, could even send DIAL video display to the Chromecast device. Likely this won't happen... Why? Because a $35.00 dongle to view Tivo content would be a no brainer in comparision to the Mini's cost. It would cannibalize, thus won't likely be added.

4. If/when I upgrade to the new Roamio, and the DIAL implementation works well and is as broadly supported as the Chromecast feature, I likely won't use the Chromecast anymore. Thus I only am out the $35.00 ($11 actually as I was fortunate to order during the Netflix 3 months promotion and cut that cost from my current subscription) if I find that the Roamio satisfies all my DIAL needs.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Grakthis said:


> Ok, we're having some several language problems here, and I am not helping things. Let's nail some stuff down, ok?
> 
> Chromecast is a device, not a standard or a communication method.
> 
> ...


I totally agree that TiVo can support DIAL for any app that they approve on the TiVo. However, the Cast API is much more involved than DIAL support. DIAL is only about the communication from client to server. The Cast API defines how the server handles the HTML5 app which is required to be downloaded at runtime.

So if Hulu adds DIAL support to their mobile apps, it doesn't mean it will work on the TiVo because the app on the TiVo will have to be updated to support DIAL. I highly doubt we will ever see that unless Hulu updates the TiVo app to HTML5.

The big feature of the ChromeCast system is that it does not require the server/host to have app installed (aka the ChromeCast doesn't have apps on it). You will probably see a lot of apps like this coming out later this year (like HBO Go). However, with the current setup, TiVo will not support them without an accompanying app on the TiVo.

Just the fact that TiVo supports HTML5 through Opera will probably help move along DIAL support though.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

SeaFractor said:


> I own a Chromecast and also a Tivo Premiere.
> 
> I thought I'd chime in and clarify some things real quick.
> 
> ...


You're appear to either be misunderstanding a lot of things or you're just way over your head here.

The Chromecast (device) has a chrome browser in it. That browser loads HTML5 apps. Those apps do not show a border around them because they run as full screen apps. No one said a word about ChromeOS. We said Chrome browser. Just like I have a chrome browser on my android phone and tablet. No one said anything about it loading a chrome browser on your phone/tablet. It loads a chrome browser on the chromecast.

Saying the Chromecast runs android is a bit shady. It's closer to GoogleTV, which is branched from android. It's not entirely untrue, but it's not accurate either. It does not run the version of android my phone runs, though they share a common core.

BTW, it is called a Chromecast because it loads everything in a chrome browser. I.E. the Chromecast is an OS and a web browser. pew pew.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I think it's pretty clear that if TiVo has an app for a service and the companion app for that service on iOS/Android supports DIAL then you'll be able to cast it to the TiVo.
> 
> The only question mark is if the whether the Chrome tab mirroring is something standard that TiVo can emulate, or if it's something proprietary to Google. If it's part of the standard then I'm sure TiVo will support it. If it's something Google did specific for the Chromecast then we wont.


Chrome Tab Mirroring is just a desktop Chrome Extension that sends compressed images to the Chrome Browser on the ChromeCast that "plays" them. It's not proprietary in the sense that the code is secret, but if Google wrote the extension in a way that allows for generic DIAL receivers to decode the information we're golden. The only difference between the TiVo DIAL implementation and the ChromeCast DIAL implementaion is the user of Opera on TiVo and Chrome on the ChromeCast.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I could see that being supported by a specific app in this "futher app store"

Should't be that hard to implement 3rd party...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Exactly, and that's the unknown part. My guess is that it will not work with the Chrome tab mirroring. But I'd be pleasantly surprised if it did.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

rainwater said:


> I totally agree that TiVo can support DIAL for any app that they approve on the TiVo. However, the Cast API is much more involved than DIAL support. DIAL is only about the communication from client to server. The Cast API defines how the server handles the HTML5 app which is required to be downloaded at runtime.


Well, i know the Chromecast has been sniffed and we know the data it sends back and forth. And I know it has control messages it sends. So we know it is at least SOMEWHAT more complicated than DIAL. But saying it is "much" more involved is premature. I mean, it might be? How do you know? Have you seen the core protocol? I have not.



> So if Hulu adds DIAL support to their mobile apps, it doesn't mean it will work on the TiVo because the app on the TiVo will have to be updated to support DIAL. I highly doubt we will ever see that unless Hulu updates the TiVo app to HTML5.


No. This is just not true. The Hulu app would not need to be updated at all. The TiVo has to be updated to know, when it receives a command to play Hulu video, where it should direct that command. The Hulu app does not need to know ANYTHING about that.

Imagine DIAL is a guy with a note pad. He comes to my house and knocks on my door and says "watch Sons of Anarchy tonight" and then turns around and leaves. He does not know or care HOW i watch sons of anarchy. He doesn't know where my remote is, or what channel it's on. He has simply delivered the command. My TV does not need to be updated to speak to this man with notepads. I do that. Then i control my TV.

That is how DIAL works.

So, TiVo could allow a DIAL command for Hulu to launch either the existing Hulu app (ugh) OR it could send the command to an Opera browser which would then load an HTML5 app that Hulu wrote that plays the video.

The issue there, however, becomes "how do you control playback?" And the answer right now is "well, oops, that sucks."



> The big feature of the ChromeCast system is that it does not require the server/host to have app installed (aka the ChromeCast doesn't have apps on it). You will probably see a lot of apps like this coming out later this year (like HBO Go). However, with the current setup, TiVo will not support them without an accompanying app on the TiVo.


That's all true. Do you know why the Chromecast does not need to have an app installed? Because it has the One True App(tm). A web browser. That web browser runs HTML5 apps downloaded and run in real time.

Which is exactly what the Roamio has.



> Just the fact that TiVo supports HTML5 through Opera will probably help move along DIAL support though.


*nods*


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Philmatic said:


> Chrome Tab Mirroring is just a desktop Chrome Extension that sends compressed images to the Chrome Browser on the ChromeCast that "plays" them. It's not proprietary in the sense that the code is secret, but if Google wrote the extension in a way that allows for generic DIAL receivers to decode the information we're golden. The only difference between the TiVo DIAL implementation and the ChromeCast DIAL implementaion is the user of Opera on TiVo and Chrome on the ChromeCast.


It can't be that simple because it also supports audio. it has to be a little more complex than simply taking screen caps and sending them over HTTP.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Grakthis said:


> It can't be that simple because it also supports audio. it has to be a little more complex than simply taking screen caps and sending them over HTTP.


There is a way to unlock an advanced mode of the extension. It has parameters for bitrate, so it seems to be using some sort of realtime A/V encoding. If it's encoding to a generic HTML5 video stream then TiVo should be able to support it no problem. If it's rendering to some special Chrome format then it probably wont. Although there could still be some codec licensing issues here.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

TiVo could easily implement their own control API, but I think that would be a mistake. My first response is that they need to call up Google and ask Google to share the API for Google Cast. But my fear there is that they did that, and Google said "no" and that's why the Roamio is running opera instead of chrome.

And if it's running Opera, is google going to be WILLING to share their control API?

We won't know until the Google Cast SDK is finalized and we see what google's terms of use say. If they say "You can't use this to cast to a non-Google device" then we'll know that the TiVo is not going to support the control portion of the spec and TiVo is on their own to map the "FF, Pause, Play, Back" etc. buttons to the browser... which sounds, ugly.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> There is a way to unlock an advanced mode of the extension. It has parameters for bitrate, so it seems to be using some sort of realtime A/V encoding. If it's encoding to a generic HTML5 video stream then TiVo should be able to support it no problem. If it's rendering to some special Chrome format then it probably wont. Although there could still be some codec licensing issues here.


My assumption, based on the quality settings and the strain it puts on the desktop PC, is that you are right and it is doing a real-time encoding of the browsers output and is streaming that video to the chromecast just like it's a youtube video. Basically, exactly what you are saying.

There are some very smart people hacking/unraveling the Google Cast API as we speak. I am sure those people are going to be able to tell us how it all works within the next 2-3 months.

I mean, a kid already wrote an app that basically hosts local files on your phone so the chromecast can play them and he did it without the SDK so Google couldn't stop him.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If enough apps add native DIAL support then generic casting of a Chrome tab will be mostly unnecessary. Plus, as someone else mentioned, it might be possible for a 3rd party to write a generic app like this and create the same effect without involving Google. It might require it's own extension, but that's about it.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Grakthis said:


> It can't be that simple because it also supports audio. it has to be a little more complex than simply taking screen caps and sending them over HTTP.


Screenshots was the wrong term to use, it is using either H.264 or likely WebM video to capture the entire screen (with audio) and stream it to the ChromeCast device live. Just like Apple's AirPlay Mirroring implementation.


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## SeaFractor (Apr 16, 2013)

Grakthis said:


> You're appear to either be misunderstanding a lot of things or you're just way over your head here.
> 
> The Chromecast (device) has a chrome browser in it. That browser loads HTML5 apps. Those apps do not show a border around them because they run as full screen apps. No one said a word about ChromeOS. We said Chrome browser. Just like I have a chrome browser on my android phone and tablet. No one said anything about it loading a chrome browser on your phone/tablet. It loads a chrome browser on the chromecast.
> 
> ...


A great source of information for Chromecast is the XDA forum as I'd previously mentioned. http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2406

Again, regardless of the OS/browser built into the device, that does not detract from the following.

1. I don't have to use a browser of any sort to control the Chromecast from my Tablet with any of the applications already extended (Netflix, Youtube, Google Play movies or music). I only need to use Chrome Browser to launch content from my PC (or a Macintosh) that is not extended yet for ChromeCast or DIAL.

2. Those videos once launched are streaming from the cloud and not my device, so I can actually power off the tablet and the videos continue to play. Google Play music is the only exception as it won't advance to the next song if powered off.

3. I can then turn on my Samsung phone and load Netflix and continue to control the video with pause, stop or play. Or I can keep both on and easily control from either. Yep, a super cheap Barnes and Noble Nook Color that has CyanogenMod can then become a super cheap power remote for the Chromecast. Smacks that Harmony remote for that specific function. Heck, load the Tivo Tablet application and between the two you have full on control for both systems.

As to if the device itself uses a browser, it's seamless 1080P video that actually looks sharper than my Roku 2 and deffintely than my Tivo Premiere.

Tivo Roamio needs to completely knock it out of the park or it's very easy to stick with my Tivo Premiere and use Chromecast for a superior Netflix experience.

If Tivo Roamio does knock it out of the park, I'll upgrade and then likely stop using the Chromecast as a redundant feature.

But Tivo needs to have support for PC/Mac, Iphone/Ipad, Android out of the gate as that's there with Chromecast.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

SeaFractor said:


> But Tivo needs to have support for PC/Mac, Iphone/Ipad, Android out of the gate as that's there with Chromecast.


Again, DIAL is not the same as Chromecast. TiVo doesn't have to support a single piece of hardware. The apps themselves that are installed on the TiVo must support the DIAL api. That is all. If you want full Chromecast support where a hardware agnostic HTML5 app is loaded from a remote server, I don't see that ever happening on the Roamio platform.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

rainwater said:


> Again, DIAL is not the same as Chromecast. TiVo doesn't have to support a single piece of hardware. The apps themselves that are installed on the TiVo must support the DIAL api. That is all. If you want full Chromecast support where a hardware agnostic HTML5 app is loaded from a remote server, I don't see that ever happening on the Roamio platform.


It "could" if the app store TiVo is talking about actually materializes... A third party app could use the existing Opera browser for that purpose.

A little research would have to go into the idea, but my point is that something might be developed independent of TiVo the company.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bradleys said:


> It "could" if the app store TiVo is talking about actually materializes... A third party app could use the existing Opera browser for that purpose.
> 
> A little research would have to go into the idea, but my point is that something might be developed independent of TiVo the company.


Sure. But nothing about the Chromecast server is open. So only reverse engineering would be possible. So I think people should set their expectations accordingly.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

rainwater said:


> Sure. But nothing about the Chromecast server is open. So only reverse engineering would be possible. So I think people should set their expectations accordingly.


And this is where my knowlege of the differences between Chromecast and DIAL services fails. Is there something specifically on either hardware our cloud services that google is doing that significanly differentiates itself from the open DIAL services.

I thought it was just bringing a browser into play - and everything worked via that mechanism.


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## gothaggis (Mar 3, 2010)

this is an interesting page to look at to see which companies have DIAL namespaces - http://www.dial-multiscreen.org/dial-registry/namespace-database


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

I've done my best to follow this discussion, but I'll admit I'm still not completely on board on DIAL vs Chromecast. But all this talk has me thinking that the Premiere's YouTube app is not far from this currently. With the exception of actually launching YouTube on the Premiere, you can completely control the Premiere YouTube app via the YouTube mobile app. You simply "pair" the mobile YouTube app to your "TV" (Premiere in this case). So, If I'm understanding everything DIAL is the last link.

The Roamio's will support DIAL, which is the "control" mechanism for the missing links described above. From the YouTube Mobile app, I'd pull up a video, and then tell it to play on my "TV". This would then pass a request via DIAL to the Roamio, basically saying "Launch YouTube" and then the rest just falls into place with the Mobile app then communicating with the Roamio YouTube app similarly to the current Premiere/Mobile YouTube interaction..


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

DIAL is just what the acronym says, DIscovery And Launch. Launch _can_ mean an application *already on the server* (the TiVo).

Are there any dial servers here? _Yes._
Cool, do you have a YouTube app? _Yes._
Ok, I'll let my user launch things at you.

The app _can_ also be an HTML5 browser and a URL can be passed.

*Control of the launched apps is not specified by DIAL.* ("outside the scope")

Source for the above: https://sites.google.com/a/dial-multiscreen.org/dial/dial-protocol-specification , sections 3.1 - 3.3, 5.

Google Cast adds a proprietary protocol RAMP that's already being reverse engineered. One partial analysis is at https://github.com/entertailion/Fling (Also, that's a working Java app that serves to chromecast without the google SDK.)

RAMP appears to add control -- play, pause, etc. between the sender (tablet) and receiver (Chromecast).

I know from looking at the Google SDK, sender apps pass custom (for each web provider client) tokens that are used for authentication, authorization and specifying the desired media. The Javascript to do the auth & auth are also custom, loaded with the html.

People are already building software that does the Chromecast side of things. (Cheapcast, leapcast, picast)

Take aways:

Saying DIAL is supported doesn't mean DIAL with a browser is.
Saying DIAL is supported doesn't mean the launched app will be controlled by the tablet.
TiVo _might_ just mean they'll let tablets LAUNCH the apps they have anyway, which can then be driven by the remote.*
DRM is in there somewhere. HBO Go isn't going to let people copy movies by sending streams just anywhere. So providers will have to approve of the receiver. This speaks to the idea of "everything just working".

* This isn't so bad from a usability standpoint. I miss my hard buttons when I want to pause my chromecast. But it's bad that it might not enable an explosion of supported services.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I've been using this a bit lately and it's pretty cool! :up: The Netflix app is a lot easier to browse on my iPad and the Netflix app on the TiVo only takes a few seconds to launch, and is actually usable once it does. which is a stark contrast to the Netflix app on the Premiere.

I don't watch a lot of YouTube, but I have flung a few things to that too and it works equally as well.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

http://gigaom.com/2013/10/02/plex-to-add-dial-multiscreen-support-could-come-to-chromecast-soon/

This could definitely be a good thing for those of us who use Plex.


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## Philmatic (Sep 17, 2003)

Has anyone tried the latest iOS Hulu app with the Roamio? They just added DIAL/Chromecast support, I'm wondering if it works already or if it needs an update from TiVo.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Philmatic said:


> Has anyone tried the latest iOS Hulu app with the Roamio? They just added DIAL/Chromecast support, I'm wondering if it works already or if it needs an update from TiVo.


The APP will need to be updated for this to work.


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## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

bradleys said:


> The APP will need to be updated for this to work.


The app on the TiVo?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Yes, both the app on the device and the app on the TiVo need to be updated to support the DIAL protocol.


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## Toeside (Feb 14, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Yes, both the app on the device and the app on the TiVo need to be updated to support the DIAL protocol.


That makes sense. I hadn't thought about the changes tot the receiving side. Hopefully tivo's Hulu Plus app is updated soon.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Toeside said:


> That makes sense. I hadn't thought about the changes tot the receiving side. Hopefully tivo's Hulu Plus app is updated soon.


It would require a complete rewrite. Adding Chromecast support is easy because the app that is downloaded remotely only needs to be a small html5 file to play encrypted video. For DIAL support to work, Hulu would have to rewrite the entire app for TiVo. So while Chromecast uses the DIAL protocol, adding Chromecast support is much easier than adding DIAL support to an existing app.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

rainwater said:


> It would require a complete rewrite. Adding Chromecast support is easy because the app that is downloaded remotely only needs to be a small html5 file to play encrypted video.


Hulu doesn't have an HTML5 implementation as far as I know. They discussed that a few years back and decided it wasn't ready.

But that really doesn't matter - our Netflix implementation isn't HTML5 either. I have no idea how much effort it would be to add DIAL support to our HULU implementation - or how much incentive the have to do it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bradleys said:


> Hulu doesn't have an HTML5 implementation as far as I know.


They do for Chromecast since it requires it. But it is not a full app. It is just a small HTML5 wrapper than can play Hulu videos (there is very little UI required). That is why adding Chromecast support on the host is much easier than DIAL support.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

I know Tivo Margret is busy with the tuner/CC situation but app development plans and updates are something I'd very much appreciate.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They don't typically talk about that kind of stuff. They just release apps whenever they're ready.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

anthonymoody said:


> I know Tivo Margret is busy with the tuner/CC situation but app development plans and updates are something I'd very much appreciate.


The community here will take any statement the Tivo is working on something as a promise that it will be released and then complain about broken promises and it not coming out "on schedule", so why would TiVo pre-announce more than they have to? Especially for apps which are being written by the content source and who's release timing is not under TiVo's control.


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## anthonymoody (Apr 29, 2008)

CrispyCritter said:


> The community here will take any statement the Tivo is working on something as a promise that it will be released and then complain about broken promises and it not coming out "on schedule", so why would TiVo pre-announce more than they have to? Especially for apps which are being written by the content source and who's release timing is not under TiVo's control.


I never said they "have to" did I?

That said, you're being a TiVo apologist. Just because they may have a history of promising and not delivering, or not communicating at all,doesn't mean it isn't possible. Development timelines are a standard part of any tech business, soft or hard. And yes **** happens and timelines slip, but on the whole it's very much standard practice for these things to be communicated, at least in a general way (eg saying Q4 rather than November 12), more than not. Even moreso for public companies. And yes even when outside partners are part of the process.

Said another way, the request is a reasonable expectation given the broader hardware and software community practices.

TiVo may suck at this, but that doesn't mean I can't ask anyway.


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## tom_da (Feb 10, 2005)

YouTube works fine. Even when doing something else on the TiVo. Quality in the video is grainy at first, but seems to sense when it can increase and gets better. You can control from the phone, pause/play, change where in the video it was. You can queue up another video to startup next. But backing up seems to lose where in the app it was and you never get back correctly again, lost in the TiVo app.

NetFlix is a bust. All it does is start the Netflix app on the TiVo with the typical lists. NOT the video you were expecting from the Netflix Google app. The Google app seems to never finish and it times out while the TiVo app goes off looking for the lists to display. Even if you already have the video playing on the TiVo, 'casting' from your phone resets NetFlix back to the start screen of lists. Totally useless.

I notice a difference in the two when you click the 'cast' icon. YouTube assumes you want to cast 'away' to other devices and only lists them. (like my TiVo Premiere) NetFlix adds your phone to the list too, apparently to let you switch back to 'local'. Bet this is where the screw up is. The two TiVo apps are probably expecting the same implementation of the protocol to be followed. The two Google apps probably AREN'T in sync. What ELSE is new inthe s/w world?!


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## djdanska (Sep 30, 2004)

tom_da said:


> NetFlix is a bust. All it does is start the Netflix app on the TiVo with the typical lists. NOT the video you were expecting from the Netflix Google app. The Google app seems to never finish and it times out while the TiVo app goes off looking for the lists to display. Even if you already have the video playing on the TiVo, 'casting' from your phone resets NetFlix back to the start screen of lists. Totally useless.
> 
> I notice a difference in the two when you click the 'cast' icon. YouTube assumes you want to cast 'away' to other devices and only lists them. (like my TiVo Premiere) NetFlix adds your phone to the list too, apparently to let you switch back to 'local'. Bet this is where the screw up is. The two TiVo apps are probably expecting the same implementation of the protocol to be followed. The two Google apps probably AREN'T in sync. What ELSE is new inthe s/w world?!


the Netflix android app on my HTC one and nexus 7 2013 have no problem starting Netflix videos from the android app. Works flawlessly here. Its extremely helpful to fast forward or search a video that way. I have a chromecast too.


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## srauly (Apr 26, 2000)

I realize this is a really old thread, but I was hoping to find an updated list of TiVo Roamio apps that support DIAL via an iPhone.

Does the Pandora app support this? I'm getting my new Roamio Plus delivered by Monday and was hoping that I could use my iPhone to cast/Airplay (whatever you'd like to call it) Pandora stations to the Roamio, rather than have to navigate stations via the TiVo remote.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't even see a casting option in the Pandora iOS app.


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## srauly (Apr 26, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> I don't even see a casting option in the Pandora iOS app.


I believe it would show up under the AirPlay icon. Unless Pandora decided to only let the iOS version support the Apple TV and you need to be running the Android version to support ChromeCast/DIAL devices.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo is not AirPlay compatible. DIAL is more akin to the way a Chromecast works. However I just looked up the instructions for casting to a Chromecast and they do not work with my Roamio aiOS app is not 100% DIAL compliant, not sure which. But I know my network is OK because all of my TiVos/Minis show up in the Netflix app.


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## srauly (Apr 26, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo is not AirPlay compatible. DIAL is more akin to the way a Chromecast works.


Thanks for giving this a try.

Yeah, I'm actually quite familiar with how AirPlay, ChromeCast, and DIAL work. FWIW, AirPlay supports the same sort of thing as DIAL, where it offloads all of the work/stream to the Apple TV that you're AirPlaying to, and the iPhone, at that point, becomes little more than a remote control (no audio/video information streams through the iPhone at that point). There is a 2nd method that AirPlay supports, which is AirPlay Mirroring. In that mode, audio/video is sent from the iPhone to the Apple TV.

In any case, based on this page, the iOS app *should* support ChromeCast and the functionality should appear in the same spot as the AirPlay icon:
http://help.pandora.com/customer/portal/articles/1351557-pandora-on-chromecast#2

The fact that the TiVo isn't showing up, tells me that there's a compatibility issue there. We could probably nail the issue down further by having someone with an Android phone see if their TiVo shows up in their Android Pandora app.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Both the app on the phone and the app on the TiVo have to support it. If the app on the TiVo does not then it wll not be broadcast via DIAL which is probably why the icon is not showing up.

But I'll admit I've never used Pandora on my TiVo, so maybe something would change if I logged in?


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## srauly (Apr 26, 2000)

Just thought I'd post back now that I have my Roamio Plus. It looks like the TiVo/Pandora combo doesn't support DIAL. Hopefully a future software update adds that functionality.

The same is true of the Amazon app.

The Netflix app, however, does support it.


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