# Mad Men 6/23/2013 "In Care Of"



## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

Wow...ok.

So Don is out.

Ted headed to LA

Bob Benson sets up Pete to fail at GM.

Manolo marries Pete's mom and pushes her off a ship.

Sally gets her friends drunk and gets kicked out of school.

Megan leaves Don.

Don comes clean about his childhood to Hershey, the partners and his kids.

Peggy gets screwed and then gets screwed.

And did I miss a scene where Pete resigned? He said he was going to California. What did I miss? He wasn't at the mandatory Thanksgiving partner's meeting where Don was voted out. Isn't Pete a partner?

Makes for an interesting last season.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Yep. Wow and wow.

That is a great summary.

Peggy got screwed, then screwed but still ended up in Don's office. 

I really liked the very end - Don showing his kids where he grew up.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Before the episode I was trying to guess what would happen and one of my guesses was Ted would break Peggy's heart. I was right!

I thought it was really funny that after the investigator said that no expense would be spared that Pete and his brother asked for a ballpark!

Don really spiraled out of control this season. Next season could go either with an attempted redemption or all-out disaster. Mad Men isn't much for redemption...

Sally was only suspended, not kicked out. 

I loved Peggy enjoying the view from Don's chair at the end. Both Don and Ted subverted her in different ways. It will be interesting to see how she does without them. Side note - the outfit she wore when Ted said he was leaving is very similar to the one she wore when she interviewed with him. 

I expect Pete is going to CA with Ted for the LA office.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Wow, there's a lot of red meat in this one. I saw this as all about fathers ultimately realizing how important their kids really are. Roger with Kevin, (not caring about Bob knowing Roger was the father of Joan's child), and with his daughter and seeming loser husband "bleeding him dry"; Ted dumping Peggy and escaping to CA for his kids; Pete and his daughter, probably the most sympathy I have ever felt for Pete was in that scene; and finally Don taking the kids and showing them the house he grew up in. Sally almost looked at him with some respect.

Excellent season finale, probably the best of the season. :up:


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Going down?


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

I'm pretty sure Pete was at the meeting before the meeting where it was decided Pete would be the one going to California and Don would be getting the Freddy Rumsen treatment.

I wonder if next season starts with everyone calling Don by his real name from then on?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

"NOT GREAT BOB"
I loved it.. milk out the nose-worthy


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Bob with the apron on, carving the turkey.

:up:


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The best part was the end where Sally looks at Don with a "Now I see why you're so bleeped up" look.

My guess is that Don starts his own small agency next year. Hopefully, Megan goes away and stays away.

I was tired of Ted's and Peggy's dance. Glad that's over.

Who was the second guy at the elevator?


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> The best part was the end where Sally looks at Don with a "Now I see why you're so bleeped up" look.
> 
> My guess is that Don starts his own small agency next year. Hopefully, Megan goes away and stays away.
> 
> ...


Don's replacement?


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

TiVo'Brien said:


> I'm pretty sure Pete was at the meeting before the meeting where it was decided Pete would be the one going to California and Don would be getting the Freddy Rumsen treatment.
> 
> I wonder if next season starts with everyone calling Don by his real name from then on?


And I wonder if Dick Whitman's AWOL status will be resolved next season?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

TiVo'Brien said:


> Don's replacement?


I was thinking more like Peggy's replacement.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

TiVo'Brien said:


> Don's replacement?


Don said they'd met before but I don't remember the guy.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

I didn't go back to check, but I thought the guy getting off the elevator was the religious AA guy that spoke to Don in the bar.

And I loved two visuals in this episode: when Peggy is sitting in Don's chair and turns toward the window, it was very shadowy in the foreground and looked a lot like the opening credits profile of Don; and in the scene with Pete and Trudy where they were standing opposite sides of the room, his side dark and her side light.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

crowfan said:


> I didn't go back to check, but I thought the guy getting off the elevator was the religious AA guy that spoke to Don in the bar.


That's what I originally thought, too but that just seemed too implausible.

Mad Men's very well written, true to life characters help make up for the slow moving plot developments. The characters act like real people do. However, I can't for one second believe that a real world person would have a real world meltdown in an extremely important client meeting like Don did at the Hershey meeting.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> I can't for one second believe that a real world person would have a real world meltdown in an extremely important client meeting like Don did at the Hershey meeting.


I didn't buy that either.

Don being kicked out was contrived.
They spent 5 years telling us what a genius he is and then they give him the boot?
Not buying it.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Cainebj said:


> I didn't buy that either.
> 
> Don being kicked out was contrived.
> They spent 5 years telling us what a genius he is and then they give him the boot?
> Not buying it.


I feel like this whole season has been showing us that he isn't such the genius he used to be.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

That being said, I also didn't buy the meltdown/confessional or the get drunk, hit a preacher and wind up in jail scenario either. 

Interesting bit with him then NOT drinking, getting the shakes and Ted seeing it and telling him to take a shot before the meeting.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

Ah, that's right - that guy was a preacher. Probably not the guy from the elevator then.  No idea who he was.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Who was the second guy at the elevator?


"Lou". We last saw him at the airport when Don and Roger were going to Detroit, and he came over to taunt them about losing Vick's ("Who's got a cough drop? Not these guys!")


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

betts4 said:


> That being said, I also didn't buy the meltdown/confessional or the get drunk, hit a preacher and wind up in jail scenario either.


The meltdown, Don's forced vacation... Some of the major points of this episode were very manipulative like Pete being goaded into trying to drive that Camaro when he can barely drive an automatic transmission. I expect that from an I Love Lucy episode, not Mad Men.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I, too, missed how Pete was ending up going to CA.

Ted's quite the ***** - sees Peggy looking mega-hot, pursues and screws her, gives her promises, then immediately reneges. Yikes, what a dick.

I wonder why Don was compelled to give the whorehouse story to the meeting with the Hershey folks. I mean, it rounded out well but I guess it was just a whole piece of his feeling vulnerable. 

Did they recognize alcoholism at that time? The shaking hand thing was no surprise. I'm sure WE all know he's an alcoholic, but during that time (I was still a kid- just turned 14 that Nov) I don't recall if it was something that was recognized.

Not surprising that Sally would go bad. I also think I'm tired of the whole Megan thing. Don always figures out too late that he loves the girl. Poor Don. I know, he's a dick too but you can see so clearly, and IMO understand, why.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> The meltdown, Don's forced vacation... Some of the major points of this episode were very manipulative like Pete being goaded into trying to drive that Camaro when he can barely drive an automatic transmission. I expect that from an I Love Lucy episode, not Mad Men.


Yeah, these last two seasons haven't had the care and attention to the scripts that seasons 1 - 4 had.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

TiVo'Brien said:


> Yeah, these last two seasons haven't had the care and attention to the scripts that seasons 1 - 4 had.


Right - having someone in the office drive a riding lawnmower over (a) Guy's foot in order to keep the Americans in power and lead to their defection wasn't at all contrived, silly or "I Love Lucyesque".

I love the absurdity they bring to the show at times.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> Don being kicked out was contrived.
> They spent 5 years telling us what a genius he is and then they give him the boot?
> Not buying it.


That one incident by itself wouldn't have triggered Don's forced leave of absence.

According to Matthew Weiner, firing their most important client, forcing them into a merger and then waging war on his partner, and the destructive swath that he cut through the agency, killing the public offering and everything else, that cannot go without punishment. The Hershey's meeting has little do with it. 
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/matthew-weiner-discusses-the-mad-men-season-finale/?hp


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Sepinwall's take on the episode: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wa...ion-bob-bensons-origin-and-more-from-season-6


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

sharkster said:


> I, too, missed how Pete was ending up going to CA.
> 
> Ted's quite the ***** - sees Peggy looking mega-hot, pursues and screws her, gives her promises, then immediately reneges. Yikes, what a dick.
> 
> ...


It's simple. Don has been telling lies for so long that he finally had the cathartic moment to tell the truth. His lies were making him alcoholic.
To me the shaking of the hand was not his alcoholism but the guilt of all his lies. The Hershey story about his dad was just the straw and he couldn't do it any longer because he realized his lies were destroying his marriage, his family, as it showed at the end possibly his job.

Your looking at it through the prism of a normal person versus somebody who is tired of it all. Frankly I have been waiting for the heart attack.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

zalusky said:


> It's simple. Don has been telling lies for so long that he finally had the cathartic moment to tell the truth. His lies were making him alcoholic.
> To me the shaking of the hand was not his alcoholism but the guilt of all his lies. The Hershey story about his dad was just the straw and he couldn't do it any longer because he realized his lies were destroying his marriage, his family, as it showed at the end possibly his job.
> 
> Your looking at it through the prism of a normal person versus somebody who is tired of it all. Frankly I have been waiting for the heart attack.


Well done! About the only part of that that I caught, up front, was that his lies were the cause of his alcoholism.

I find that I have to watch the episode, come here to read what others have seen, read the Sepinwall blog, then the next week I watch it again.  Getting old sucks! Stuff just doesn't sink in as well anymore.


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## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

From a Matthew Weiner interview this morning on HuffPo:

And let's face it, how good do you have to be to get away with the crap he pulled this year? He fired their biggest client [at that time, Jaguar], he forced them into a merger. He ruined their public offering and then, he went to war against their partner -- the Hershey meeting being a very minor infraction in all of this. So yeah, it's pretty bad. I mean, Freddy came back and worse people come back from this thing; I'm not going to say that Don's not going to be back in the agency. But people should feel exactly what it is -- the partners have put their foot down and they don't want him in the office for a while.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

If this were the real world, SC&P would be fuming mad at Don Draper in a few years after seeing how huge a client Hershey would become.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

TiVo'Brien said:


> I'm pretty sure Pete was at the meeting before the meeting where it was decided Pete would be the one going to California and Don would be getting the Freddy Rumsen treatment.


Yeah that's what I thought. Because Ted would be needed in the NY office and wouldn't be able to go to CA, they said previously that they couldn't have _both_ Ted and Don gone. So will that tension remain between Ted and Peggy? And I don't remember seeing Ted at the partners meeting with Don, or was he there?

One of my favorite lines was when Stan was all mad at Don because he stole the moving to CA idea and he said that he was going back to his desk to eat a sandwich before Don got to it.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

That "Chevrolet '69" sign had the apostrophe backward. Pete really did them a favor by backing into it.



kaszeta said:


> If this were the real world, SC&P would be fuming mad at Don Draper in a few years after seeing how huge a client Hershey would become.


One of my favorite jingles of all time (ran incessantly during Saturday morning cartoons circa 1979-80):


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Yeah, I was thinking of that very ad during the show.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Ted is still going to CA and will oversee Peggy from there


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brianric said:


> That one incident by itself wouldn't have triggered Don's forced leave of absence.
> 
> According to Matthew Weiner, firing their most important client, forcing them into a merger and then waging war on his partner, and the destructive swath that he cut through the agency, killing the public offering and everything else, that cannot go without punishment. The Hersheys meeting has little do with it.
> http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/matthew-weiner-discusses-the-mad-men-season-finale/?hp


Not to mention the times he's MIA like in this (or was it last) episode when the Sheraton guys show up in the office and Don is nowhere to be found. The other partners were constantly covering for him and putting up with his crap, and his occasional (and increasingly rare) genius pitch just wasn't making up for it anymore.



DeDondeEs said:


> Yeah that's what I thought. Because Ted would be needed in the NY office and wouldn't be able to go to CA, they said previously that they couldn't have _both_ Ted and Don gone. So will that tension remain between Ted and Peggy? And I don't remember seeing Ted at the partners meeting with Don, or was he there?


As Cherry Ghost noted, the partners said in the meeting that Ted was still going to CA, so I have no idea why Pete was saying he was going to CA as well.

Regarding Don taking the kids to see the dilapidated whorehouse: I didn't really get the point of that. Sure, it looks like a run-down house now, but it was a fairly large house and back in the day it was probably pretty nice. So I don't see what he was trying to say with taking them there. Just seeing that house doesn't do anything to give insight into Don's screwed-up childhood. Unless we assume that along with taking them to see the house he also gave them his entire backstory.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brianric said:


> Sepinwall's take on the episode: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wa...ion-bob-bensons-origin-and-more-from-season-6


That link is actually to Sepinwall's interview with Matthew Weiner. Here is the link to his recap:

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/season-finale-review-mad-men-in-care-of-both-sides-now


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Not to mention the times he's MIA like in this (or was it last) episode when the Sheraton guys show up in the office and Don is nowhere to be found. The other partners were constantly covering for him and putting up with his crap, and his occasional (and increasingly rare) genius pitch just wasn't making up for it anymore.
> 
> As Cherry Ghost noted, the partners said in the meeting that Ted was still going to CA, so I have no idea why Pete was saying he was going to CA as well.
> 
> Regarding Don taking the kids to see the dilapidated whorehouse: I didn't really get the point of that. Sure, it looks like a run-down house now, but it was a fairly large house and back in the day it was probably pretty nice. So I don't see what he was trying to say with taking them there. Just seeing that house doesn't do anything to give insight into Don's screwed-up childhood. Unless we assume that along with taking them to see the house he also gave them his entire backstory.


Wiener has mentioned in interviews that he assumes the audience is smart and does not have to see things spelled out. So I would expect the point by Don introducing them to the house is that he will then off camera tell them the rest of the story (well some of it) off camera.

We shall see next year.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

brianric said:


> Sepinwall's take on the episode: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wa...ion-bob-bensons-origin-and-more-from-season-6


[This is actually the Weiner interview.]

Interesting that in the interview Weiner said that Joan succeeded with Avon and assumed that we would know that. I'm still not even completely clear what that means - they won the new business and she's the account man? If so, that would be such a pivotal moment for Joan they really short-changed her not showing any of that - the creative pitch, the win, etc.



> What happened with Joan and Avon?
> 
> Matthew Weiner: That succeeded. Speaking of revolutions, Peggy bailed her out of it in the end. A lot of this is about people trying to not repeat their habits based on previous experience. Even though Peggy is higher up than Joan, and is explaining to Joan how it works, Joan knows she's having so much taken away - she just knew that would be the only way to get it, so she got it.
> 
> ...


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I just watched this, and I haven't read any articles or interviews.

I thought it was a fantastic episode.

After all these seasons, we FINALLY met Dick Whitman. That story he told the Hershey's people revealed more about who he was and where he came from than anything we have seen or heard before. The juxtaposition to the pitch he gave just prior to telling the truth explained who he wanted Don Draper to be. I thought it was some of the most brilliant writing we have seen on this show. Five minutes of dialog pretty much summed up who this person was and who he wanted to be in a way we had never seen before. 

Of course, in typical Don Draper fashion, it was too little, too late. He destroyed everything he had tried to build. And he knew it - which is why he gave Ted California - I think he knew he he couldn't run away from who he was any more. 

There was SO much more to this episode - almost TOO much. I may have to watch it again - so much to digest. And Joni Mitchell in the closing was perfect...


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Since Ted is in creative and Pete is an account man, it makes sense to me now that both would be going to CA. Sort of a miniature SC&P. (I wonder if Pete is going to take his .22 rifle with him and when will the inevitable accident come?)


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

There is only one way for this show to end and that's with Don jumping off a tall building and plummeting to the ground just like in the intro. And it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Without a doubt that character is one of the most self-destructive personalities of all time. Why anybody puts up with all his BS I have no idea. They should have shown him the door last season.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Zevida said:


> [This is actually the Weiner interview.]
> 
> Interesting that in the interview Weiner said that Joan succeeded with Avon and assumed that we would know that. I'm still not even completely clear what that means - they won the new business and she's the account man? If so, that would be such a pivotal moment for Joan they really short-changed her not showing any of that - the creative pitch, the win, etc.


Frankly, I hadn't even thought about Avon again until I read Alan's interview, but thinking about it, it makes sense.

In the episode when that happened, Pete basically had Joan on the ropes until Peggy bailed her out. But Peggy only bought her time. If Joan hadn't been able to close the account, Pete would still be fuming about it, and Joan would not be in the partner's good graces. So I guess Weiner is saying that because Pete forgot about it and Joan still has her position, that things must have worked out for her.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> I just watched this, and I haven't read any articles or interviews.
> 
> I thought it was a fantastic episode.<snip>
> 
> There was SO much more to this episode - almost TOO much. I may have to watch it again - so much to digest. And Joni Mitchell in the closing was perfect...


Agree. Fantastic episode. Six years and 78 episodes brought to a head, in one incredible scene. Can't wait to see how next year ends it.

Joni Mitchell wrote the song, Judy Collins sang it. Sadly, I'm old enough to remember when it was a hit.



TampaThunder said:


> There is only one way for this show to end and that's with Don jumping off a tall building and plummeting to the ground just like in the intro.





Spoiler



Matthew Weiner has said, in more than one interview, that it will not end with anyone jumping out a window like the credits.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

TampaThunder said:


> There is only one way for this show to end and that's with Don jumping off a tall building and plummeting to the ground just like in the intro. And it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Without a doubt that character is one of the most self-destructive personalities of all time. Why anybody puts up with all his BS I have no idea. They should have shown him the door last season.


Where Don Draper ends, D.B. Cooper begins


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

TampaThunder said:


> There is only one way for this show to end and that's with Don jumping off a tall building and plummeting to the ground just like in the intro...


Thunder stolen!


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## gamndbndr (Jul 3, 2007)

kaszeta said:


> If this were the real world, SC&P would be fuming mad at Don Draper in a few years after seeing how huge a client Hershey would become.


Except Hershey infamously did not enter the television advertising arena until the 1970's. It would have been a long haul for SC&P to maintain the account.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Yeah, but in the credits after the guy falls out the window you see him sitting in the chair with a drink and a cigarette. I would interpret the jumping out of the window as having some sort of figurative meaning.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

gamndbndr said:


> Except Hershey infamously did not enter the television advertising arena until the 1970's.


1970. And this episode is November 1968. Not implausible that one of the other firms they were meeting ended up being "the one".


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

betts4 said:


> That being said, I also didn't buy the meltdown/confessional or the get drunk, hit a preacher and wind up in jail scenario either.
> 
> Interesting bit with him then NOT drinking, getting the shakes and Ted seeing it and telling him to take a shot before the meeting.


I thought that scene played out like it would in a Sorkin show (without the cadence). Sorkin always has those preachy speeches by his main characters. That's what I felt like. While it didn't seem so realistic that Don would have that meltdown, I do feel that the whole season was leading to something like that. Between Megan's independence, to his on and off again affair, to the issues with his kids, the stress with the partnership, and his drinking, they were certainly leading to Don having a meltdown. I just didn't expect that to be it. Then again, that did seem kind of "Don".

I am thinking, that by the end of next season, Bob is going to try and "play" all the key members of the firm. He's already played Pete, both with his mother and with the job, He's got Roger's secret, and he's trying to get in with Roger's relationship with Joan. Didn't he try and do something nice with Ted too? Maybe they are setting it up for Don to come in and save the day, but more likely, it's going to lead to something bad for the firm and Don.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

sharkster said:


> I, too, missed how Pete was ending up going to CA.
> 
> Ted's quite the ***** - sees Peggy looking mega-hot, pursues and screws her, gives her promises, then immediately reneges. Yikes, what a dick.
> 
> ...


It was interesting that they chose Hershey for the meltdown (no pun intended). If I recall what I know about Milton Hershey, he was a VERY religious man, and he tried to build Hershey, PA into a company town in his own image, which was pretty much the antithesis of how Don grew up.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Wiener has mentioned in interviews that he assumes the audience is smart and does not have to see things spelled out. So I would expect the point by Don introducing them to the house is that he will then off camera tell them the rest of the story (well some of it) off camera.
> 
> We shall see next year.


My first thought was, that he took them to show them how privileged they were and how his life sucked and they should not fall into what he went through. It's especially true of Sally, who is going through life as a whiny spoiled brat who expects everything handed to her on a silver platter. But she is also realizing how screwed up everything is around her as she is getting older. So he wants to show her especially that life is not all she thinks it is, and also to explain why her dad is the person he is.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I am thinking, that by the end of next season, Bob is going to try and "play" all the key members of the firm. He's already played Pete, both with his mother and with the job, *He's got Roger's secret*, and he's trying to get in with Roger's relationship with Joan. Didn't he try and do something nice with Ted too? Maybe they are setting it up for Don to come in and save the day, but more likely, it's going to lead to something bad for the firm and Don.


He does? Remind when he found that out?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Squeak said:


> He does? Remind when he found that out?


I think it was implied there might have been a conversation by Roger's attention to the child. I am on the fence on this one.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Squeak said:


> He does? Remind when he found that out?





zalusky said:


> I think it was implied there might have been a conversation by Roger's attention to the child. I am on the fence on this one.


I think it would be fairly clear to Bob that Kevin is Roger's son based on the interaction between Joan and Roger, the fact that Roger was so protective of Joan, and probably because Joan told him.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it would be fairly clear to Bob that Kevin is Roger's son based on the interaction between Joan and Roger, the fact that Roger was so protective of Joan, and probably because Joan told him.


Alright, in the MM world, I can see where that can now be assumed (especially since now I read that we were suppose to know the Avon deal was a success).

I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something that was more obvious that I missed.

Would I be wrong to assume now that if all three of them (Roger, Bob and Joan) know that each other knows, that there really isn't much powere that Bob would have over Roger? Would his life really be that impacted if everyone knew that Kevin was his kid? It might for Joan, but not for him.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Squeak said:


> Alright, in the MM world, I can see where that can now be assumed (especially since now I read that we were suppose to know the Avon deal was a success).
> 
> I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something that was more obvious that I missed.
> 
> Would I be wrong to assume now that if all three of them (Roger, Bob and Joan) know that each other knows, that there really isn't much powere that Bob would have over Roger? Would his life really be that impacted if everyone knew that Kevin was his kid? It might for Joan, but not for him.


I think in the early years, Roger and Joan weren't that discreet, so it must have been known/office gossip they were having coitus. (Yes I have been watching a lot of TBBT lately). It's not well known that Kevin is Roger's. In MM Assumptionland, I guess people would have thought her ex was the father. Joan would be even more undermined at work if it was known, I'd think. That's why I suspect the Bob knowing bit is a portent for next season.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Mr. Soze said:


> I think in the early years, Roger and Joan weren't that discreet, so it must have been known/office gossip they were having coitus. (Yes I have been watching a lot of TBBT lately). It's not well known that Kevin is Roger's. In MM Assumptionland, I guess people would have thought her ex was the father. Joan would be even more undermined at work if it was known, I'd think. That's why I suspect the Bob knowing bit is a portent for next season.


Bob seems to be weaziling in on a lot of office secrets. There has to be more to the Bob story than we know already. Maybe it's just him being a junior Don Draper, but I think there really is something sinister about him, and I'd be surprised if it doesn't come out next season. I'd actually kind of be disappointed if it doesn't.

Maybe the series ends with Bob narrating the story to his kids and they title the episode "How I took over the firm"


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> After all these seasons, we FINALLY met Dick Whitman. That story he told the Hershey's people revealed more about who he was and where he came from than anything we have seen or heard before. The juxtaposition to the pitch he gave just prior to telling the truth explained who he wanted Don Draper to be. I thought it was some of the most brilliant writing we have seen on this show. Five minutes of dialog pretty much summed up who this person was and who he wanted to be in a way we had never seen before.


i'm surprised how many people are blowing off this scene. Yours is the closest analysis/opinion to mine that i find compared to anybody else who posted about it.

Hershey chocolate meant a LOT to Don. You could see it from the first time the others mentioned that Hershey was asking for pitches - Don lit up and said "i like Hersheys!". And we found out why - because it's the only time he ever felt like a normal kid, which was the only thing he wanted as a kid. Hershey's chocolate was IT for him.

and sitting there in the conference room, after giving out his BS childhood story, he looks down at his shaking hand, remembering how much his life has spiraled out of control, and how he's losing all the "normal" he has, he felt obligated to confess, to tell Hershey's just what they meant to him. He was tired of the lies, of the hiding. He finally let out some truth - this wasn't him pretending, he finally let people know who he truly is and it was a load off.

I thought that was the most powerful scene in the episode, heck in the season.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

milo99 said:


> i'm surprised how many people are blowing off this scene. Yours is the closest analysis/opinion to mine that i find compared to anybody else who posted about it.
> 
> Hershey chocolate meant a LOT to Don. You could see it from the first time the others mentioned that Hershey was asking for pitches - Don lit up and said "i like Hersheys!". And we found out why - because it's the only time he ever felt like a normal kid, which was the only thing he wanted as a kid. Hershey's chocolate was IT for him.
> 
> ...


The problem I had with it was while it was going on, I had no idea if he was really telling the truth or not (since he is such a prolific liar).

I still don't know how much of what he said was really what happened, and how much of it has been changed to fit the narrative he wants to believe about himself.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

getreal said:


> Thunder stolen!


That thunder was stolen years ago, as people have been talking about the opening credits being foreshadowing of don's ending since the first season.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Squeak said:


> The problem I had with it was while it was going on, I had no idea if he was really telling the truth or not (since he is such a prolific liar).
> 
> I still don't know how much of what he said was really what happened, and how much of it has been changed to fit the narrative he wants to believe about himself.


What reason would he have to lie in that moment, when he's literally throwing his career down the tubes and killing any chance he has of landing such an important account? The whole point of that scene was that Don was finally coming clean and finally telling someone the truth about who he is. To look at that skeptically and wonder if it was true means you missed the point of the scene.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> What reason would he have to lie in that moment, when he's literally throwing his career down the tubes and killing any chance he has of landing such an important account? The whole point of that scene was that Don was finally coming clean and finally telling someone the truth about who he is. To look at that skeptically and wonder if it was true means you missed the point of the scene.


I didn't miss the point of the scene. What I said was *during* the scene I had a hard time knowing if it was the truth. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Draper is a liar. He lied about his first connection to Hershey's. Once he started in, how was I to not know it wasn't another lie?

Afterwards, sure I can see that, but in the heat of the dialogue, I was suspicious.


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## EscapeGoat (Oct 12, 2008)

TampaThunder said:


> There is only one way for this show to end and that's with Don jumping off a tall building and plummeting to the ground just like in the intro. And it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Without a doubt that character is one of the most self-destructive personalities of all time. Why anybody puts up with all his BS I have no idea. They should have shown him the door last season.


So it's going to end with Don jumping off a tall building, and then end up sitting on a bench (or maybe it's a wide chair) and smoking a cigarette?

I'm going to bet that the end will be something else.


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## TampaThunder (Apr 8, 2003)

EscapeGoat said:


> So it's going to end with Don jumping off a tall building, and then end up sitting on a bench (or maybe it's a wide chair) and smoking a cigarette?
> 
> I'm going to bet that the end will be something else.


It's obviously just a Weekend at Bernie's scenario where Don's dead body is propped up during a cocktail party where the remaining partners of the firm are entertaining potential buyers. He'd probably contribute more to the effort as a corpse than alive.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Mr. Soze said:


> Excellent season finale, probably the best of the season. :up:


Don't go out on a limb, there!


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

I think a lot of people here are reading way too much meaning into things that happened in this episode and throughout the season.



Spoiler



Matt Weiner consistently says in his end-of-season interviews, as he did again this week, that he and his writers don't ever hold anything for later seasons. They dump out all the story they know by the end of each season. They often end up writing themselves into corners that they don't know how to get out of, and then they have to spend the offseason figuring out the solutions. Some of what is speculated about here could happen next season, but I believe Weiner when he says he has no idea what next season will be about. It'll be a coincidence if speculation and reality end up aligning.

James Wolk, who plays Bob Benson, is a regular on The Crazy Ones (with Robin Williams) next season. No guarantee we will see him on Mad Men anymore. Weiner has said he has no idea if Wolk will be available. He's not holding any big Bob Benson stories in reserve for later.

Weiner has also said that he knows what the last shot of the series will be, but not how it gets there. I doubt that shot is of Draper splattered on a sidewalk.


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## brebeans (Sep 5, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Bob seems to be weaziling in on a lot of office secrets. There has to be more to the Bob story than we know already. Maybe it's just him being a junior Don Draper, but I think there really is something sinister about him, and I'd be surprised if it doesn't come out next season. I'd actually kind of be disappointed if it doesn't.
> 
> Maybe the series ends with Bob narrating the story to his kids and they title the episode "How I took over the firm"


I certainly hope not! Bob is a weazel and doesn't seem very bright and his character, well, is not charismatic at all (unlike Don). I'm not sure where they're going with Bob, but I'm not liking his role or seeing the purpose to it.......
I guess we'll find out.

On another topic....this sums up Pete and Don for me:

Pete = the guy you love to hate.

Don = the guy you hate to love.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

brebeans said:


> I certainly hope not! Bob is a weazel and doesn't seem very bright and his character, well, is not charismatic at all (unlike Don). I'm not sure where they're going with Bob, but I'm not liking his role or seeing the purpose to it.......
> I guess we'll find out.
> 
> On another topic....this sums up Pete and Don for me:
> ...


On Bob, I totally disagree about him not being too bright. I think he's very bright. I believe he was in on the plot to kill Pete's mother, and he certainly set that all up by giving him the opportunity to hire his BF. He also managed to figure out ways to get into the good graces with Joan (probably realizing she "runs" things at CSP and she's probably the best source of info about the firm). He also was smart enough to set up Pete and GM so he could't be on the account. Do I like the character? No. But really, there's not many characters on the show that we are even supposed to like (Maybe Joan and Peggy).

For some reason, this season, I've come to sorta like Pete. Maybe it was that he kept painting himself in a corner, or that he's arrogance started to backfire on him and he seemed less of an a-hole because of it. As for Don, TV is famous for likable rogues, and he fit the bill for most of the series run. This year? I just thought he was mostly a jerk, and not very likable. I have a hard time with people who has good things around him and just don't see it.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Who was the second guy at the elevator?


I thought one was a former Sterling-Cooper employee now a headhunter and the other a current employee of Dancer-Fitzgerald which was one of the largest ad agencies at the time.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> On Bob, I totally disagree about him not being too bright. I think he's very bright. I believe he was in on the plot to kill Pete's mother, and he certainly set that all up by giving him the opportunity to hire his BF. He also managed to figure out ways to get into the good graces with Joan (probably realizing she "runs" things at CSP and she's probably the best source of info about the firm). He also was smart enough to set up Pete and GM so he could't be on the account. Do I like the character? No. But really, there's not many characters on the show that we are even supposed to like (Maybe Joan and Peggy).
> 
> For some reason, this season, I've come to sorta like Pete. Maybe it was that he kept painting himself in a corner, or that he's arrogance started to backfire on him and he seemed less of an a-hole because of it. As for Don, TV is famous for likable rogues, and he fit the bill for most of the series run. This year? I just thought he was mostly a jerk, and not very likable. I have a hard time with people who has good things around him and just don't see it.


I pretty much agree with most all of this.

Bob knew what he was doing. He may not be likable to US but he sure is likable to everyone else (except Pete).

I also felt linking towards more for Pete than Don this season.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Jon J said:


> I thought one was a former Sterling-Cooper employee now a headhunter and the other a current employee of Dancer-Fitzgerald which was one of the largest ad agencies at the time.


One was Duck Philips. He used to work for Sterling Cooper. I don't remember the second guy. If he had appeared before, he may have been in a small, passing role.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

I read somewhere that the other guy was from a rival firm. We only saw him once briefly, when he came up to Don and Roger (I think) in an airport lounge to make fun of them for losing a big account.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

crowfan said:


> I read somewhere that the other guy was from a rival firm. We only saw him once briefly, when he came up to Don and Roger (I think) in an airport lounge to make fun of them for losing a big account.


Something about loosing Vicks. I remember the scene, but not the people making the jokes. Not saying people are wrong. Just that I personally don't remember every single character that has ever appeared on the show.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

I agree, never in 100 years would I remember that very minor character.


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## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

I don't think you were supposed to necessarily remember him. What you needed to know:

1) Don was fired
2) Covering for him (managing Peggy) will be "short term"
3) Duck is now an executive recruiter (shown MANY times this season)
4) As Don is leaving Duck shows up with some guy and Don says "You are early"

So - Don is out and the firm is immediately hiring his replacement, using Duck as a recruiter.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Yeah, that definitely was the guy that made fun of SCDP losing Vick's, but it doesn't really matter. It could be any ad guy being brought in and the message would be the same (but using Duck the recruiter to bring him in makes the message more clear).

As an aside, is Freddie still at SC&P? He disappeared after they brought him back.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

crowfan said:


> I read somewhere that the other guy was from a rival firm.


Duck introduced him as from Dancer-Fitzgerald.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mostman said:


> I don't think you were supposed to necessarily remember him. What you needed to know:
> 
> 1) Don was fired
> 2) Covering for him (managing Peggy) will be "short term"
> ...


Yep, that's how I saw it, and good explanation of the comment "You are early". Makes perfect sense. I recognized Duck, not the other guy, but I guess they had it all lined up to replace Don as soon as possible. Maybe this was coming way before the Hershey's episode, but that was the final straw.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

On that note, is it realistic that the firm would be conducting an interview for Don's replacement on the morning of Thanksgiving? I understand the need to hold the meeting and let Don go, but would they really want to stick around and interview new candidates on the holiday? Why couldn't that wait until Monday?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

brebeans said:


> I certainly hope not! Bob is a weazel and doesn't seem very bright and *his character, well, is not charismatic at all* (unlike Don). I'm not sure where they're going with Bob, but I'm not liking his role or seeing the purpose to it.......
> I guess we'll find out.


Are you serious with the bolded portion? Bob is not charismatic? That's all Bob is. He oozes charisma. That's his best attribute.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> On that note, is it realistic that the firm would be conducting an interview for Don's replacement on the morning of Thanksgiving? I understand the need to hold the meeting and let Don go, but would they really want to stick around and interview new candidates on the holiday? Why couldn't that wait until Monday?


seems unlikely. Hell, i think it's unlikely they would have called a meeting with the partners and fired Don on Thanksgiving Day.

But really, it doesn't matter. Don is canned from SCP. And Duck is bringing in a candidate for the head of creative.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> seems unlikely. Hell, i think it's unlikely they would have called a meeting with the partners and fired Don on Thanksgiving Day.
> 
> But really, it doesn't matter. Don is canned from SCP. And Duck is bringing in a candidate for the head of creative.


But is he really canned, or just on a leave?

Matt W. was pretty clear that we will have to wait and see how that plays out.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I think the partners did what they could legally do given Don's partnership in the company. The intention is to fire him, but his ownership makes that messy, so they put him on a leave of absence and will try to work out the legal issues in order to complete the separation. That's my interpretation of what the partners told him during that meeting. And Don simply leaving without getting any kind of specific answers as to how long the suspension would last implies that he understands he was fired.

Now will that still be the case when S7 begins? No idea. There are many ways that relationship could be patched up at some point. But as of Thanksgiving morning, 1968, Don Draper was fired from the firm for all intents and purposes.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think the partners did what they could legally do given Don's partnership in the company. The intention is to fire him, but his ownership makes that messy, so they put him on a leave of absence and will try to work out the legal issues in order to complete the separation. That's my interpretation of what the partners told him during that meeting. And Don simply leaving without getting any kind of specific answers as to how long the suspension would last implies that he understands he was fired.
> 
> Now will that still be the case when S7 begins? No idea. There are many ways that relationship could be patched up at some point. But as of Thanksgiving morning, 1968, Don Draper was fired from the firm for all intents and purposes.


Agreed. Don being a Partner makes "firing" him a complicated matter.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

When do we get the answers to all these questions?


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## DrEvil (Oct 26, 2002)

Season 5 premiered on March 25, 2012 and season 6 on April 7, 2013.

So if AMC keeps to a similar schedule, season 7 will premier either towards the end March or early April of 2014.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Are you serious with the bolded portion? Bob is not charismatic? That's all Bob is. He oozes charisma. That's his best attribute.


I think he oozes charm, not charisma.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

milo99 said:


> I'm surprised how many people are blowing off this scene. Yours is the closest analysis/opinion to mine that i find compared to anybody else who posted about it....I thought that was the most powerful scene in the episode, heck in the season.


TOTALLY agree with this....I was shaking my head and saying "wow" out loud as that scene progress. Probably some of the best teevee I've seen in a few years.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

betts4 said:


> ...Interesting bit with him then NOT drinking, getting the shakes and Ted seeing it and telling him to take a shot before the meeting.


Not true...they clearly showed him taking a drink in his office before he went into the meeting.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Not true...they clearly showed him taking a drink in his office before he went into the meeting.


Yes. But I thought that was AFTER Ted said something.


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## brebeans (Sep 5, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> I think he oozes charm, not charisma.


Agree....he's handsome and has a great smile. If he were not, he wouldn't even be charming. He's "nice", but, to me, not believably nice. I don't think he brings anything to the show, really. He just annoys me. But, hey, we'll see if his character goes anywhere....

I don't think that anyone in the firm really "buys" or knows who/what he is, which I is why I said he isn't 'charismatic'. There just doesn't seem to be any substance there; unless you want to call 'kissing everyone's a**" as substance.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Yes. But I thought that was AFTER Ted said something.


Ah, yes, you are correct. I was wrong.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Ah, yes, you are correct. I was wrong.


Your internet debate card is hereby revoked. Not for being wrong, of course, but for admitting you were wrong.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

JETarpon said:


> Your internet debate card is hereby revoked. Not for being wrong, of course, but for admitting you were wrong.


Not if he denies the admission!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Squeak said:


> But is he really canned, or just on a leave?
> 
> Matt W. was pretty clear that we will have to wait and see how that plays out.


Even if they said "leave", I think the tone of the meeting and the way it was told to him, plus the encounter in the elevator, it seemed that the other partners are forcing him out.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

With the possibility of Don being fired, the partners are going to have to buy out his share of the company. Wouldn't this also free Don from a non compete clause?


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Mad Men Season Finale Drew 2.7 Million Viewers, its largest ever.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/business/media/madmen-season-finale-drew-2-7-million-viewers.html


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

brianric said:


> With the possibility of Don being fired, the partners are going to have to buy out his share of the company. Wouldn't this also free Don from a non compete clause?


One would think. But most likely they will not touch on that. They didn't talk about the same problem when Lane hung himself.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Squeak said:


> One would think. But most likely they will not touch on that. They didn't talk about the same problem when Lane hung himself.


They bought out his wife. The non-compete was moot.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Mr. Soze said:


> They bought out his wife. The non-compete was moot.


We don't know that. They never actually talked about it.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Squeak said:


> We don't know that. They never actually talked about it.


They didn't talk about what? They absolutely did talk about buying out his wife's shares. And of course they wouldn't talk about a non-compete for a dead guy.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> They didn't talk about what? They absolutely did talk about buying out his wife's shares.


No, that was never addressed on the show. Don told Joan to use some of the insurance money to pay back the $50k Lane had to put in as collateral after Lucky Strike left, but that was only a repayment, not a buyout.


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