# How long before directv stops supporting the hr10-250?



## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

I've heard sometime next year the unit will become obsolete, but that could just be a rumor. Has anything solid been confirmed? Will we be able to still use it once directv switches to the mpeg-4 signal?


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

It will never be obsolete. DirecTV has renewed their contract with Tivo and will be supporting all Tivo-based DTV DVRs for another three years at a minimum. This question has been asked and answered dozens of times here and in other forums. The sky is not falling!


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

The only thing switching to MPEG-4 is the HD SAT based content.

The SD will remain MPEG-2, and OTA will remain MPEG-2


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## aVOLanche (Jul 20, 2004)

Earl,do you mean that OTA will be broadcast in both MPEG-2(for HR10) and MPEG-4(for HR20).Or will the HR20 do both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4?


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Mpeg4 is only from the satellites. All OTA HDTV/digital broadcasts are in mpeg2 and have nothing to do with what DirecTV is providing (other than guide data). The HR20 can receive both mpeg2 and mpeg4 from the sats and mpeg2 via OTA when they eventually turn it on. The HR10-250 is mpeg2 only.


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## heaphus (Aug 30, 2004)

Why are they not converting SD to mpeg4? Is it cost related, and not enough gain? Or, is it that they don't want to obsolete every receiver in existence or, both?


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## boltjames (Dec 21, 2002)

Will DirecTV continue to feed the HD signal to the MPEG-2 HR10 boxes? Or do we see them pulling the HD off MPEG-2 receivers completely and forcing HD HR-10 users into their new box and MPEG-4?

BJ


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

boltjames said:


> Will DirecTV continue to feed the HD signal to the MPEG-2 HR10 boxes?


When MPEG-4 is fully deployed for HD, there won't be a HD MPEG-2 signal. Duplication of both signals would be wasteful and the main reason for MPEG-4 is a more efficient use of the stream.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Why are they not converting SD to mpeg4? Is it cost related, and not enough gain? Or, is it that they don't want to obsolete every receiver in existence or, both?


Why would they? They already have the infrastructure in place for the mpeg2 channels. The mpeg4 broadcasts are designed for HDTV right now and any future HDTV channels added to the DTV lineup will all be in mpeg4. All satellites have a limited lifespan. When the time comes to decommission the current mpeg2 sats then perhaps DTV will make the switch to all mpeg4. I wouldn't count on seeing this happen anytime soon because it will mean changing over millions of mpeg2 receivers to mpeg4 models. Right now the only mpeg4 receivers available are HD models (the H20 and HR20).


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

bidger said:


> When MPEG-4 is fully deployed for HD, there won't be a HD MPEG-2 signal. Duplication of both signals would be wasteful and the main reason for MPEG-4 is a more efficient use of the stream.


While I can't disagree with that, there is the legacy issue. IOW, there is a significantly-large installed base of millions of current M2 users that would have to either get all-new equipment, or an all-new DBS/cable/FIOS provider. There is therefore a huge cost and a huge risk in terminating M2 too early. I would expect it to last at least until the current Tivo agreement runs out, although HD would likely be the first to go.

And, it is likely that DTV will be sold before then. Who knows how Tivo-friendly the new owner might be? I'm betting a lot more friendly, because it would be against the odds for the new owner to be as stupid about the value of Tivo as the current owner is. I would not even be that surprised to see M4 DTivos from DTV one day.


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## jfischer (Oct 14, 1999)

mr.unnatural said:


> All satellites have a limited lifespan. When the time comes to decommission the current mpeg2 sats then perhaps DTV will make the switch to all mpeg4.


The satellites have nothing to do with the compression format used. All they do is bounce the signal back down to earth, they don't care one way or another if it's MPEG2 or MPEG4. It's all just a bunch of bits to them


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

SD Is not converting ANYTIME in the NEAR or even "moderate" distant future.

You are talking having to replace nearly 35 MILLION receivers (as a conservative estimate)... Let alone all the MPEG-2 encoding equipment, infrastructure, ect...

It just isn't going to happen any time remotely soon.


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## boltjames (Dec 21, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> SD Is not converting ANYTIME in the NEAR or even "moderate" distant future.
> 
> You are talking having to replace nearly 35 MILLION receivers (as a conservative estimate)... Let alone all the MPEG-2 encoding equipment, infrastructure, ect...
> 
> It just isn't going to happen any time remotely soon.


Can you clarify the same point on the HD programming?

I live in New England and receive the NY locals in HD via my HR10 and MPEG-2. From what I understand, if NY locals go MPEG-4, I'm cooked and will lose them.

Thus the reason for my probe.

BJ


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

If you are in the NYC DMA I would expect that you might be protected longer, as there are enough DNS customers nationwide that would require them to continue with the M2 channels for some time. If not, you will probably lose them quicker, even though they won't be shut off for some time. DTV has been shutting off the DNS duplicates in markets that they have launched M4 locals in, although not concurrent with the launch. If you have OTA capability for those channels, you should be OK regardless.


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## leesweet (Mar 13, 2004)

Is there any 'normal' delay for the shutdown of the DNS duplicates (delay from the M4 HD locals launch)? Or is that only true if you get the NY/LA because of DNS/can't get OTA vs. O&O locals? 

I get NBC and Fox from NY on the HR10 because of O&O locals and was wondering if/when I can expect them to evaporate.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

boltjames said:


> Can you clarify the same point on the HD programming?
> 
> I live in New England and receive the NY locals in HD via my HR10 and MPEG-2. From what I understand, if NY locals go MPEG-4, I'm cooked and will lose them.
> 
> ...


I would not expect the HD to remain in MPEG-2 too much past 2007.
DirecTV has stated in their Q2 2006 report, that they plan to aggresively convert the MPEG-2 only hardware to MPEG-4 so they can convert all existing MPEG-2 HD SAT feeds, to MPEG-4

NY already has MPEG-4 locals (so does LA).
So basically it is when the MPEG-2 DNS feeds are shut down... which from all the information out there... I would expect to happen mid to late 2007, possible carrying into early 2008... but not much further.

Between the "revisting" of the DNS rules and approvals (as DirecTV is cautiously watching what is going on with Dish Network), and more MPEG-4 locals going on line.... DNS HD feeds, are going to get harder to obtain and keep


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## MisterEd (Jun 6, 2001)

Really? Are you sure about this? My neighbor had a HR20-700 installed by DTV and they would only give him a 3LNB dish. Is DirecTV going to notify all the NY/NJ customers before dumping MPEG2? They're going to have a hellava lot of receivers to swap out!


ebonovic said:


> NY already has MPEG-4 locals


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## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

He's certain:

5LNB with mpeg-4 locals in HD here in NY, including CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, YES (Yankees/Nets) and SNY (Mets).


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

MisterEd said:


> Really? Are you sure about this? My neighbor had a HR20-700 installed by DTV and they would only give him a 3LNB dish. Is DirecTV going to notify all the NY/NJ customers before dumping MPEG2? They're going to have a hellava lot of receivers to swap out!


Positive... He should have received the 5LNB dish...
In almost all HD installs, they should be installing the 5LNB dish, as all future HD channels are going to be from the two newest SAT slots, which you will need a 5LNB dish.

And yes... they have a hell of a lot of receivers to replace, around 2 million or so.


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## temp357 (Feb 18, 2004)

I must've missed it. When did they START providing support for the hr10-250?


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## Thehypnotoad (Sep 28, 2006)

temp357 said:


> I must've missed it. When did they START providing support for the hr10-250?


Well there was the 6.3a software upgrade...wait a minute, you're right.


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## onella (Jun 6, 2005)

Will other high definition stations such as HDNET, ESPN, HBO(HD), etc. become available only in Mpeg4 on DTV in the near future?


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## JRAllas (Mar 26, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> The only thing switching to MPEG-4 is the HD SAT based content.
> 
> The SD will remain MPEG-2, and OTA will remain MPEG-2


So, I guess its safe to say that when they switch HD to MPEG4, my HR10-250 I spent $299 on will only be good for SD. I feel sorry for the folks that spent $999 for it.
If D*TV thinks I'm gonna willingly remove my HR10-250 and replace it with their piece of junk HD DVR, they're sadly mistaken.
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason the HR10-250 can't do MPEG4? Is the decoding in the hardware? My 2.0 Ghz Windows XP PC does it just fine with software.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

aVOLanche said:


> Earl,do you mean that OTA will be broadcast in both MPEG-2(for HR10) and MPEG-4(for HR20).Or will the HR20 do both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4?


Why would DirecTV have anything to do with OTA?


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

JRAllas said:


> So, I guess its safe to say that when they switch HD to MPEG4, my HR10-250 I spent $299 on will only be good for SD. I feel sorry for the folks that spent $999 for it...


Not safe to say, and no need to feel sorry. I expect my HR10's to be getting HD OTA (95% of what I watch) until at least 2010. I just bought a third one.



JRAllas said:


> ...Just out of curiosity, is there a reason the HR10-250 can't do MPEG4? Is the decoding in the hardware? My 2.0 Ghz Windows XP PC does it just fine with software.


Does what just fine? I'll bet it doesn't decode MPEG-4 encoded HD in real time, just fine. That takes a hardware decoder, which the HR10 just does not have. I can create fairly decent SD MPEG-4 clips from DVD VOBs on my speedy PowerBook, too, but at about 1/5th real time. And the HR10 is not a zippy personal computer that you can load software into, and does not have that kind of processing power. There are a lot of reasons.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> Why would DirecTV have anything to do with OTA?


DirecTV supplies the guide data, both sattellite and OTA, without which your TiVo is just a fancy VCR good for manual recordings only.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

drew2k said:


> DirecTV supplies the guide data, both sattellite and OTA, without which your TiVo is just a fancy VCR good for manual recordings only.


Certainly you aren't suggesting DirecTV would make OTA on the HR10 stop functioning on active receivers...


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## tadrow (Jul 28, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> Does what just fine? I'll bet it doesn't decode MPEG-4 encoded HD in real time, just fine. That takes a hardware decoder, which the HR10 just does not have.


You're right, but not for the reason you think. It really doesn't matter whether the video was encoded real-time or not when it comes to decoding. A modern processor can decode MPEG4 without too much of a problem. However, the processor in the Tivo isn't anything close to cutting edge. In fact, it's really underpowered to some degree, and relies on hardware decoders to do its work.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Certainly you aren't suggesting DirecTV would make OTA on the HR10 stop functioning on active receivers...


I honestly have no idea and doubt they ever would. But if they have to keep paying Tivo every month as long as your HR10 is active then they might do it someday.


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## herdfan (Feb 5, 2003)

heaphus said:


> Why are they not converting SD to mpeg4? Is it cost related, and not enough gain? Or, is it that they don't want to obsolete every receiver in existence or, both?


Once the HD feeds go all MPEG-4, there will be enough MPEG-2 bandwidth for D* to add another 50+ shopping channels.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> drew2k said:
> 
> 
> > DirecTV supplies the guide data, both sattellite and OTA, without which your TiVo is just a fancy VCR good for manual recordings only.
> ...


OTA on an HR10 could seemingly function for as long as you have an external antenna connected and for as long as you live in an area that receives HD TV over-the-air signals.

However, if DirecTV stops supplying OTA guide data, your HR10-250 becomes a VCR with a hard-drive; you could still do trick play and manually record programs (based on start and end time), but you wouldn't have TiVo season pass or wishlist functionality, because you'd have no guide data.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

drew2k said:


> OTA on an HR10 could seemingly function for as long as you have an external antenna connected and for as long as you live in an area that receives HD TV over-the-air signals.
> 
> However, if DirecTV stops supplying OTA guide data, your HR10-250 becomes a VCR with a hard-drive; you could still do trick play and manually record programs (based on start and end time), but you wouldn't have TiVo season pass or wishlist functionality, because you'd have no guide data.


I KNOW,  my point was that they aren't going to stop providing guide data for PAYING ACTIVE RECEIVERS, and your suggestion that they would do such a thing has no bassis.

The thing will continue to function as it does, minus any satellite delivered HD channels.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> I KNOW,  my point was that they aren't going to stop providing guide data for PAYING ACTIVE RECEIVERS, and your suggestion that they would do such a thing has no bassis.


Then why didn't you just make your point earlier in a straightforward manner instead of asking presumptive questions? 

As the supplier of the guide data, DirecTV can do whatever they want, including discontinuing OTA guide data and only supplying satellite data.



> The thing will continue to function as it does, minus any satellite delivered HD channels.


Unless you work for DirecTV and know their plans for OTA guide data, your statement has as much basis in reality (or maybe even less) as my speculative statement of what could happen to your HR10-250 *if* DirecTV stops supplying OTA guide data. You are making an assertion that DirecTV "will" continue to provide OTA guide data if support for the HR10 ends, and where's your basis for that? Such an absolute statement should be either backed up by facts or at the least be preceded by a humble "IMO" ...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Unless you work for DirecTV and know their plans for OTA guide data, your statement has as much basis in reality (or maybe even less) as my speculative statement of what could happen to your HR10-250 *if* DirecTV stops supplying OTA guide data. You are making an assertion that DirecTV "will" continue to provide OTA guide data if support for the HR10 ends, and where's your basis for that? Such an absolute statement should be either backed up by facts or at the least be preceded by a humble "IMO" ...


Name me receivers that they stopped supporting in the past?

They still support all of the original series1 TiVo's, ultimate TV's, etc.

Why would they turn of hr10's that people are using for SD? For people that are paying to keep them active? For people that don't have the HD Package?

I don't have to work for DirecTV to use logic and common sense...


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I'd have to presume that Adam is right and if all you want to use the HR10 for is SD D* programming, your ATSC OTA locals, and the DVR functionality, it would be doable.


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## kbohip (Dec 30, 2003)

I don't plan on downgrading to the HR20 until Directv has a hell of a lot of MPEG4 only HD channels. I certainly am not worried about not being able to receive their pathetic current HD package.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> Name me receivers that they stopped supporting in the past?
> 
> They still support all of the original series1 TiVo's, ultimate TV's, etc.
> 
> ...


You are totally misconstruing the point of my posts.

This thread started out discussing what happens to HD channels on the HR10 when DirecTV stops sending MPEG2 HD streams out. This morphed into a discussion about the OTA channels that the HR10 can record, and in direct response to an earlier question from you about what DirecTV even had to do with OTA, I explained that without the OTA guide data recording on the HR10 was pretty much like using a VCR - it's all manual. I guess my mistake was believing my response would be taken in context to refer to functionality on the HR10 only as far as OTA channels go, but somehow it was taken that I was saying that DirecTV *will* stop supporting the HR10 entirely.

Please allow me to revise my earlier response:



drew2k (but bold red text is newly added said:


> However, if DirecTV stops supplying OTA guide data, your HR10-250 becomes a VCR with a hard-drive *as far as recording OTA channels is concerned*; you could still do trick play and manually record *OTA*programs (based on start and end time), but you wouldn't have TiVo season pass or wishlist functionality *on the OTA channels*, because you'd have no *OTA* guide data.


Is that better?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

drew2k said:


> You are totally misconstruing the point of my posts.
> 
> This thread started out discussing what happens to HD channels on the HR10 when DirecTV stops sending MPEG2 HD streams out. This morphed into a discussion about the OTA channels that the HR10 can record, and in direct response to an earlier question from you about what DirecTV even had to do with OTA, I explained that without the OTA guide data recording on the HR10 was pretty much like using a VCR - it's all manual. I guess my mistake was believing my response would be taken in context to refer to functionality on the HR10 only as far as OTA channels go, but somehow it was taken that I was saying that DirecTV *will* stop supporting the HR10 entirely.
> 
> ...


Ok, I missed your distinction that you were not suggesting that they would not support the HR10, but would rather stop supplying OTA Guide data.

I can't imagine they would allow you to activate and pay for (albeit for SD only) a Hr10-250 but would not provide OTA data, but I guess anything is possible. IMO this will never happen. 
No, because as long as DirecTV allows you to activate the HR10 on your account, even if it's for SD only because they have no HD channels it can tune, it will have guide data.


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