# Anyone actually considering buying one?



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Based on what we've heard so far, would you consider buying the new Tivo?


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## Aero 1 (Aug 8, 2007)

i will when one of my S3 ends its 3 year in september (they wouldnt give me the $99 lifetime special), especially if what Datz says that existing people with life time (i have 1 s3 life'd) get a discount.


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## Enrique (May 15, 2006)

Nope, Hello Ceton.


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## NickIN (Dec 26, 2002)

Until they figure out the whole 2 way communication thing I won't be buying one. And I'm now more convinced than ever that the DirecTV box will never happen.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I voted other. My mother is buying two of my HDs off me anyway since she hates the Fios DVR. As a result I will need at least one so I see no reason not to versus buying a HD model.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I was planning to buy two if they had improved some of the base DVR functionality (specifically, more than 2 tuners and/or cooperative scheduling and padding/negative padding), but unless the interface turns out to be far more responsive than the S3 line, I'll wait.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

Yes, I'll be buying one. No compelling reasons, but my S2DT is about to be down graded by Comcast's switch to full digital so I was going to be replacing it anyway. I'm not going to be upgrading my S3 or HD to the Premiere.


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

My three year prepaid service expires on my Series 3 at the end of May. I may upgrade to the new Premiere for the HD menus and faster processing speed.

Then again, the bluetooth qwerty remote and Pandora are available for the S3, so I may not need to update. 1080p would be nice on my 1080p projector, but it isn't a must have.


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## radams (Oct 8, 2008)

Enrique said:


> Nope, Hello Ceton.


yup


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## djjuice (Mar 29, 2008)

I like how it does full 1080p (though nothing on cable is 1080p), the new UI looks "interesting" though only this box can have the new UI is a dissapointment, more colored dots is ugly (at least they can be turned off). I'll consider it if I can do a trade-in/up.

Not totally sure I want to give up my Series 3 yet. Though the UI is slow I enjoy the OLED screen.


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## lvthunder (Apr 4, 2002)

Nothing on cable is 1080p yet. They could do it similar to how Directv and Dish do it. You have to realize TiVo is looking into the future a bit with this. Who knows what we'll be doing in 2-3 years with this thing. Also some of the internet stuff might be 1080p soon.


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## dsb411 (Sep 29, 2004)

i just bought lifetime on 2 Tivo HDs, if i cant transfer I dont want it. 

Tivo says: F U loyal customers...


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## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

I really don't understand how this is considered an upgrade to the S3.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Seems like an S3+ more than an S4


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## Glen Graham (Oct 12, 2000)

Not until there is a DirecTV version... I have an original lifetime Series 1 that my parents use (replaced the hard drive 3 times over the decade).

I hate the DTV interface, and miss TiVo. The bedroom still has a Series2 DirecTiVo, and though not high def, I like it.

I really hate the "live view" window in the corner of my DVR. I don't care what crap is on live, when I'm looking for something SAVED to watch...


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Most likely I will buy one in June when the sub on my S3 is up. Seems silly to get LT for the Series 3 at this point if I can get it on this instead. I have an HTPC, but I am not ready let it handle TV recording, only playback..


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

I plan on buying one. Have you tried living with the Comcast DVR (SARA Guide DVR)? That's all I have to say


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## ZildjianKX (Jun 11, 2004)

Seems pointless without Tru2way


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## Mike-Mike (Mar 2, 2010)

I was about to buy my first Tivo, and I waited for this announcement. I am not blown away by the improvements, but I am optimistic this will be better for future updates. I thought for sure they would have Hulu with that tagline. Part of me still wants to hit up Ebay to get a Tivo HD for cheap, but I think I will just suck it up and buy a Premiere or Premiere XL and hope that it gets some sweet updates in the future.


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## rdclark (May 2, 2004)

Seems to have nothing to offer to owners of S3+Lifetime, just a nicer interface. What new content there is will apparently come to the S3 also.

I would need a steep discount -- 50%, say -- and transfer of my Lifetime contract before I'd consider buying one.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

Not buying a new TiVo until we get past the whole Cable Card/ Tuning Adapter mess and start with Tru2way or whatever is next.


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

NickIN said:


> And I'm now more convinced than ever that the DirecTV box will never happen.


Wanna bet?


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## TiVoStephen (Jun 27, 2000)

monkeydust said:


> I really don't understand how this is considered an upgrade to the S3.


It's a much more powerful unit with much larger capacity with a much improved interface. Please see http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10462438-1.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 for more.

Best,
Stephen


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Stephen... When will capacity for OnDemand be coming to TiVo?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

George Cifranci said:


> Not buying a new TiVo until we get past the whole Cable Card/ Tuning Adapter mess and start with Tru2way or whatever is next.


That's my biggest hangup.


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## monkeydust (Dec 12, 2004)

Well, I like the current interface just fine and my S3 has plenty of capacity for me as-is. I guess the major issues like cablecards and tuning adapters can't be "fixed". Plus, I'd miss the clock/recording display on my S3.


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## daveak (Mar 23, 2009)

I needed a poll response that said, "I will be buying one in the future." That being said, I am fine with my S3 box. I have had it just over a year and did not get lifetime for it. Maybe that is a good thing, but if I buy a new box the S3 will likely go to another TV in the house... 

Basically, without a compelling reason to upgrade, I will keep using the S3. Works for me, but once I get to play with one at BB or someone's house


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Underwhelmed overall. 

Don't care about fancy gui nor internet features. You can get that all in an Xbox or PS3 etc.

I just wanted a DVR with less hassle. EAsily upgradeable hard drive. A 3rd tuner just in case. ONe that also worked with satellite so I wasn't tied to just cable. 

That's all.

$200 to go from 320gb to 1tb? Highway robbery. A 1TB drive is under $80 retail. 

I guess Tivo just doesn't have the userbase. I read something like between 2 and 3 million customers. I suppose that's why the prices remain high 10 years later. I would have thought they'd make a box for $150 by now. 

Hell make a single tuner no hd box for ~$100. GEt people on board and get them hooked.

Series 2 still going strong, but Comcast recently switched to all digital so I need something else. ..mulling my options.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

I will be trying out the new interface when the RCN units are released and I'll decide then.

If I get a discount from my Lifetime Series 2 I will most likely get one in the long run.

I don't have an S3 so it's all new to me. I'm glad I held out.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

daveak said:


> I needed a poll response that said, "I will be buying one in the future."


That's the second option in the poll.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

TiVoStephen said:


> It's a much more powerful unit with much larger capacity with a much improved interface. Please see http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10462438-1.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 for more.
> 
> Best,
> Stephen


More powerful but doesn't do much that the S3's can't do. Basically the search options were refined, but to many, that isn't a MAJOR feature. I can basically find the same info with my current unit. If I'm looking for episodes of Lost I can Search by Title. If it's not there, then I can check Amazon. Basically those menus were combined and that's it. Am I missing something? Besides that, improved interface, that's just cosmetic. Larger capacity? It's a lot cheaper to do that yourself with a Tivo HD. For something that was really hyped and highly anticipated as a big breakthrough, there isn't much in terms of substance. Just look at all the posts in the Premiere forum. Most of the things people wanted or expected flew by the wayside. What about addressing MRV issues, CC problems, SDV problems, 2 tuners, etc. Like I said before, looks more like an S3+ than an S4. SOOO much more could have been done to make this a better *DVR*.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

I voted "maybe" but I'm thinking "probably". I just wish it had come in a little cheaper.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

I'd probably get one to replace my aging (original) S2. Of course, it's still hooked up to a non-HD tube TV so there's no rush.


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## 30340guy (Apr 24, 2006)

Glen Graham said:


> Not until there is a DirecTV version... I have an original lifetime Series 1 that my parents use (replaced the hard drive 3 times over the decade).
> 
> I hate the DTV interface, and miss TiVo. The bedroom still has a Series2 DirecTiVo, and though not high def, I like it.
> 
> I really hate the "live view" window in the corner of my DVR. I don't care what crap is on live, when I'm looking for something SAVED to watch...


I just talked with a retention rep at TiVo trying to get me not to cancel my Series 2 subscription. One of the things he held out there was that the HD DirecTV unit would be coming out soon.


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## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

Not until I can upgrade that puny 1TB drive. I didn't even know they still made thm that small. 

Brad (with three 1.5TB DirecTV HR2X boxes  )


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> I voted "maybe" but I'm thinking "probably". I just wish it had come in a little cheaper.


According to Zatz on his ustream earlier, Tivo is rolling out some type of upgrade plan that should be available at http://www.tivo.com/upgrade. There are supposed to be discounts whether you go lifetime, I believe he thought 50% off lifetime, or not, I think 20% off hardware or subscription, and it doesn't transfer your service so you can still keep or sell your old unit later.


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## willv28 (Nov 18, 2009)

If the upgrade program covers those with monthly and only have had one 9 months, then maybe if it's decent.


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## tome9999 (Oct 17, 2006)

They talk about Flash as if it's a good thing. Bah!


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## rtmoore4 (May 12, 2005)

TiVoStephen said:


> It's a much more powerful unit with much larger capacity with a much improved interface. Please see http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10462438-1.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 for more.
> 
> Best,
> Stephen


Wow, no offense Stephen, but how does a much faster unit with a new improved interface justify "inventing the DVR was just a warmup" treatment? Sorry, but Marketing really screwed the pooch on this one. You're supposed to underpromise and overdeliver. Not the other way around. Sure build some buzz, talk about something really cool that is coming, but make sure you can back it up. This is nothing but a slight upgrade, that quite frankly DOESN'T OFFER ANY NEW FEATURES. Ok, so it's packaged better. Great. It's faster. Fantastic. But how is that game changing?

You should have released a box focused on getting rid of your MSO altogether. You have the capability. Just allow your customers to easily get their Season Passes of the various online content providers (Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, three letter network.com, etc.) as well as OTA. If I can get all the shows I like to watch from there, presented via TiVo, why do I need cable? Now, you can justify your antiquated business model (charging for both the box AND the service). "Replace your cable subscription with TiVo and only pay for what you want, not for what you never watch!" Now THAT'S a game-changer. The viewing public has been clamoring for a la carte channels from their cableco forever. Give them something one better. Give them a la carte CONTENT and cut the MSO out of the picture.

Sure, sure, I get it. You don't want to tick off your MSO partners. After all, they are working with you to roll TiVo out everywhere, right? Oh wait, where is that promised nationwide Comcast rollout again? What, DirecTV's new unit is STILL not released after 2 years of promises and bleeding subs?! DISH, AT&T, and Verizon are still stealing your IP and ripping you off? Cable is still dragging their feet on CableCARD support and Tru2way is a massive failure that will never deploy? SDV is a PITA that is killing a certain segment of your business?

It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, TiVo. The MSO's don't want you and they are going to continue to throw both technical as well as procedural roadblocks in your path to protect their existing revenue streams. It's time to yank the rug out from under them and make them realize they have to open up or you are going to put them out of business. You can be the new MSO, if you just have a little vision. Put DISH's money to work already and create a darn box that changes the game. You are uniquely positioned to do it and you owe it to your customers, your shareholders, and to yourselves to not end up on the trash heap of history.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

NickIN said:


> Until they figure out the whole 2 way communication thing I won't be buying one. And I'm now more convinced than ever that the DirecTV box will never happen.


who knows- but one of the screen caps at engadget has a widget/app/placeholder for 'comcast on demand' - so maybe the seachange thing is coming to comcast?


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## tothebeat (Sep 10, 2002)

Glad I didn't get too caught up in the buildup, as I just can't get behind the cable card setup. Any time I've spoken to my cable company about them, they are basically worthless when it comes to any info at all.

I just don't see anything new here....well wait...the remote is new, but, of course, that's an upcharge.

Maybe I'll upgrade when the price starts dropping.


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## Southie Boy (Jun 21, 2008)

In my mind, the only upgrade to "s-4" is a machine that sheds it CableCard(s) and allows full compatibility with the cable systems. (did I hear someone say true2way)? ntil then, I'll stick with my s-2's and s-3.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TiVoStephen said:


> It's a much more powerful unit with much larger capacity with a much improved interface.


What much larger capacity? Isn't the XL already a 1 TB drive? Plus of course, we can (officially unsupported by Tivo) replace the internal drives to that big already (my S3 has a 1 TB drive, I haven't upgraded my TivoHD drive but will).


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

I suppose there are a number of unknowns that will determine whether I get a Tivo Premiere:

1) Are the over the air tuners appreciably better than the tuners in my original Series 3? A shoot out between the S3, Tivo HD, and Tivo Premiere would go a long way to clear this up. Tuners have improved an awful lot in the last four years. Better over the air reception might be a big factor for those folks who have dropped cable for OTA HDTV.

2) What is the maximum internal and external storage space on the Tivo Premiere? I don't want to spend $500 for a 1 TB drive, but I might consider the basic Tivo Premiere if I could update the internal hard drive to 2 TB and/or add an external 1.5 TB, 2 TB, or larger hard drive in the future.

3) Do the faster processor and 1080p output make any real world difference? Don't get me wrong, one of my greatest misgivings about the existing Series 3 platform is that the guide is stretched standard def and the menus can bog down from time to time. However, I forget all about that once I start watching the show that I recorded. The eye candy is nice, but content is king.

4) Will the Tivo Premiere work any more smoothly or reliably for Netflix HD Streaming, Pandora, content from a networked computer, etc? I have an Oppo-83SE for streaming audio from my computer. I have an Xbox 360 to use for content from my Windows 7 Media Center pc. However, if the new Tivo works better or more quietly than the Xbox360 it still might fill an important niche. Pandora and Framechannel sound nice, but I can get Pandora and the new qwerty Tivo remote for my existing Tivo Series 3.

Finally, I really like the OLED front panel on my old Series 3. I don't want to fire up my projector and put time on the bulb just to see what's recording right now. I wish I had a high definition GUI when the projector is on, but I really like having a front panel that doesn't make me have to turn on my display.


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## test drive (Jan 23, 2010)

have you seen this? http://www.tivo.com/home_countdown/index.html

very amusing extension of the hyped BIG event...(a little sad if it's not self-parody ie, they're taking this and themselves a little too seriously...)


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## Sapphire (Sep 10, 2002)

Not buying one and now firmly in the windows media center camp. My series 3 is on ebay and my series 2 will be soon.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

test drive said:


> have you seen this? http://www.tivo.com/home_countdown/index.html
> 
> very amusing extension of the hyped BIG event...(a little sad if it's not self-parody ie, they're taking this and themselves a little too seriously...)


this is probably because you are supposed to be able to order tomorrow. I don't know if that is preorder though or for now shipping.


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## dig_duggler (Sep 18, 2002)

I suppose my question would be - if you have a Tivo HD/Series 3 with lifetime are you getting a Premiere? If the answer is mostly no, then the core base isn't coming along for the ride. I mean, Tivo Stephen is out here doing spin control the night of the launch.

I had a series 2 with lifetime when the series 3 came out and bit the bullet. I saw many people here who did the same. I'm not even considering it this time around.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> There are supposed to be discounts whether you go lifetime, I believe he thought 50% off lifetime


That would definitely help. :up:


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

TiVoStephen said:


> It's a much more powerful unit with much larger capacity with a much improved interface. Please see http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10462438-1.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 for more.
> 
> Best,
> Stephen


Wow, you should know better than to pop into a thread when the natives are restless!

Come on now, don't make this thing out to be more than it is. It's the HD interface that should have been out over a year ago (still looks slow as dirt too) with some vague hints of new apps/content coming down the pipeline.

What you guys should have done is kept this in the oven for another six months and gotten a few other deals cemented up, such as revenue sharing with some key partners... put it this way, people thought it was a *GIVEN* that you guys would be announcing Hulu on this thing and you couldn't even deliver that.

It doesn't help when you make the type of marketing statement that had people hoping for a religious experience, akin to the launch of the iPhone.

This is a beefed up TiVo with an HD interface that adds nothing new. TiVo has done *nothing* to address the antiquated subscriber model.

Makes Moxi and other options look increasingly attractive.

Where's the capability to free us from the Cable Card? Where's the pioneering apps? Where's the next gen TiVo transfer functionality? Where's the streaming? Where's my on demand access (could have been done via internet connectivity at this point)?

I am grateful for one thing, that there is still a retail TiVo box available that I don't have to get from my cable provider, so I don't have to use a cable co DVR with tons of ads and spam.


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

rtmoore4 said:


> Wow, no offense Stephen, but how does a much faster unit with a new improved interface justify "inventing the DVR was just a warmup" treatment? Sorry, but Marketing really screwed the pooch on this one. You're supposed to underpromise and overdeliver. Not the other way around. Sure build some buzz, talk about something really cool that is coming, but make sure you can back it up. This is nothing but a slight upgrade, that quite frankly DOESN'T OFFER ANY NEW FEATURES. Ok, so it's packaged better. Great. It's faster. Fantastic. But how is that game changing?
> 
> You should have released a box focused on getting rid of your MSO altogether. You have the capability. Just allow your customers to easily get their Season Passes of the various online content providers (Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, three letter network.com, etc.) as well as OTA. If I can get all the shows I like to watch from there, presented via TiVo, why do I need cable? Now, you can justify your antiquated business model (charging for both the box AND the service). "Replace your cable subscription with TiVo and only pay for what you want, not for what you never watch!" Now THAT'S a game-changer. The viewing public has been clamoring for a la carte channels from their cableco forever. Give them something one better. Give them a la carte CONTENT and cut the MSO out of the picture.
> 
> ...


Well said.

And now stick us with a $90 wireless N doggle. I would have thought that would have been internal. Great remote more $.

I believe my two tivohds are going to ebay and I'm going to Dish or a media center pc.


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## 8bitbarbarian (Jul 4, 2004)

When the ol' series one gives up the ghost or a lifetime transfer deal happens I'll gladly consider the new tivo product.


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## shiftless (Oct 9, 2007)

I'll greatly consider getting one if they transfer the lifetime from my Series 3


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

I'll consider getting one after my 3 years is up on my S3 in the fall. Probably once the XL price comes down a bit. But giving up the OLED display on my S3 is going to be really tough.


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## alarson83 (Oct 27, 2009)

I just got my tivo hd 4 months ago. If this announcement had been less.... underwhelming, i really mightve considered upgrading to the premiere with my tax return. 

All this seems to be is a prettier interface, and a bit more capacity, a bit more power. For 99&#37; of my tivo usage, i dont really notice it being underpowered, and I rarely build up a big backlog of dvr'd shows that i need to catch up on.

New UI- shouldve rolled this to the series 3. then again, given its the *only* new thing in the premiere, maybe that wouldve killed sales there too.
New tivo remote- Sweet. This might actually be the coolest thing you announced. Include it in the box and we'll talk. Dont tag on 50 bucks for it.
Wireless N dongle? How many devices are just including that standard internally these days? My ps3 and wii both do, why not my tivo?

I doubt i'll be purchasing, at least not right away. Better TV for the bedroom just moved up the list. Would *maybe* consider if they offered a discount for owners who have had theirs <1 yr.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

TiVoStephen said:


> Wanna bet?


If I take that bet can you make it happen quicker to collect your winnings? If so, I'm in


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## TWinbrook46636 (Feb 9, 2008)

dig_duggler said:


> I suppose my question would be - if you have a Tivo HD/Series 3 with lifetime are you getting a Premiere? If the answer is mostly no, then the core base isn't coming along for the ride. I mean, Tivo Stephen is out here doing spin control the night of the launch.
> 
> I had a series 2 with lifetime when the series 3 came out and bit the bullet. I saw many people here who did the same. I'm not even considering it this time around.


I have two Series 3 units with lifetime and there is no way in hell I'm letting go of either of them for this "Premiere" business. If it had some new hardware improvements like triple tuners and built-in wifi I would for sure.

So it has a more powerful processor. Judging from the videos of the Premier in action it's just enough to barely move the new Flash-based  user interface any faster than the snails pace TiVo Search Beta. That's pretty bad.

It looks like they have done absolutely nothing to improve the actual "DVR" part and really not much to improve the "broadband" part either.


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## Avatar26 (Oct 27, 2008)

There are a couple of other unanswered questions that would be important for me to determine whether or not to upgrade:

Ethernet - 10/100 or Gigabit? Transferring long shows/movies from HD to HD has been painful, and often required switching all tuners to inactive channels and walking away for extended periods of time. Would love to see functional, efficient Gigabit. Not even going down the CCI Byte path...

Potential for death of SDV Tuning Adapter? - I LOATHE my SDV tuning adapters. Wasted electricity and space in my opinion. Is there hope for a hardware/software solution that doesn't involve the boxes as they exist today hidden away in the new Series4?

As with all "major" product announcements from "leading edge" companies this year, the marketing hype was dramatic and ultimately unfounded. Whoever allowed the marketing team to build up such huge expectations with the tagline they used should be looking for new jobs come Monday. Talk about underdelivering... I will keep my 2 HDs and hope something better is on the horizon for Series4 in the near future.


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## Khaz (Jan 31, 2005)

I'm really curious about what potential new adopters think of the TiVo Premier. I'm an ex-customer, and there's no way in hell I am spending this much money to come back to Tivo for so little functionality versus my other options (DVR, gaming consoles, Apple TV, etc).

But what about current non-customers? They would have even less incentive to try this than I do! So who is this product aimed at? It's almost like TiVo are biding their time until they can't sue anyone any more, or they get bought. Nothing is compelling in any current TiVo offering that would significantly increase their customer base. And its probably not their fault either. They are strangled by technology and content providers. They have to go the way of Boxee or die from the death grip in which they have been placed.


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## lvthunder (Apr 4, 2002)

rtmoore4 said:


> You should have released a box focused on getting rid of your MSO altogether. You have the capability. Just allow your customers to easily get their Season Passes of the various online content providers (Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, three letter network.com, etc.) as well as OTA. If I can get all the shows I like to watch from there, presented via TiVo, why do I need cable? Now, you can justify your antiquated business model (charging for both the box AND the service). "Replace your cable subscription with TiVo and only pay for what you want, not for what you never watch!" Now THAT'S a game-changer. The viewing public has been clamoring for a la carte channels from their cableco forever. Give them something one better. Give them a la carte CONTENT and cut the MSO out of the picture.


I think that's what they are doing. Hulu wants to be PC only. Same thing with the three network.com websites. TiVo can't do a deal with those guys if they don't want to. It's still early for all this internet TV stuff, but this box puts TiVo in a good position when the inevitable transition occures. Moxi gets away with Hulu because you have to run some software on your PC that pulls the video then reencodes it and sends it to the box. I've tried it with my PS3 and it stuttered all the time. It's the kind of workaround TiVo isn't going to do.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

This new TiVo is not intended for those with an S3 or TiVo HD. It's intended for people who don't have TiVo or only have SD TiVos and are looking to go HD, or just need another HD TiVo. If I were looking to buy a TiVo, I'd certainly rather have the Premiere over the TiVo HD. I'm waiting for the new DirecTiVos. If the new DirecTiVos are more DTV than TiVo and I wind up sticking with cable, I will probably move one S3 into the spare bedroom and get a Premier for the living room.


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## infinitespecter (Jul 23, 2004)

Glen Graham said:


> Not until there is a DirecTV version... I have an original lifetime Series 1 that my parents use (replaced the hard drive 3 times over the decade).
> 
> I hate the DTV interface, and miss TiVo. The bedroom still has a Series2 DirecTiVo, and though not high def, I like it.
> 
> I really hate the "live view" window in the corner of my DVR. I don't care what crap is on live, when I'm looking for something SAVED to watch...


That's interesting. The live view window is the one feature I've missed most coming from other DVRs, and given that TiVo has put one into the interface of the new DVR, I must not be alone. What I was really hoping to see was Moxi like multiroom support. Even if they didn't do it that way, I wanted to see cooperative recording (ie. if you record more shows than there are tuners on one unit, it checks with others to see if it can record on them). That, and the ability for all the units to communicate over the cable line.


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## EVizzle (Feb 13, 2005)

Things needed for me to upgrade my S3 Tivo with a 1TB drive in it:

Keep the front panel display for recording (doesn't look like it)
Increase the number of tuners (doesn't look like it)
Better GUI (looks like it)
Easier way to type in text on screen (I use a Harmony remote, don't really feel like buying another keyboard but its an improvement)

All in all, not as cool as I had hoped. Tivo shot themselves in the foot with the over-hype, they could have had a press release and it would have been fine, but when you get crazy like this and under-deliver, you did it wrong.


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## alarson83 (Oct 27, 2009)

Kablemodem said:


> This new TiVo is not intended for those with an S3 or TiVo HD. It's intended for people who don't have TiVo or only have SD TiVos and are looking to go HD, or just need another HD TiVo. If I were looking to buy a TiVo, I'd certainly rather have the Premiere over the TiVo HD. I'm waiting for the new DirecTiVos. If the new DirecTiVos are more DTV than TiVo and I wind up sticking with cable, I will probably move one S3 into the spare bedroom and get a Premier for the living room.


If they want to gear something more towards non-customers they need to work on the price point, on either the subscription or the cost.

Now before i go further, let me say, i love my tivo.. i just want to take this from the perspective of your average user. Not the power users many of us are.

The monthly subscription cost isnt that bad on its own. In fact, its comparable, maybe slightly cheaper than what you get from your cable co. However, you have to pay $300 more (and more for xl) on top of that for the hardware.

On top of this, if you have problems with your tivo, you're SOL. If you have problems with your cable box, you drive up to your local cable office and exchange it, usually no questions asked. Suddenly that difference in monthly price is a little justified for renting instead of owning and taking that risk.

So whats the benefit over a cable dvr to your average user? A much improved interface. Multi-room viewing, transfer of video to computers? Most will say 'what i've got is good enough'. Even those additional features like netflix, etc...why should they go with tivo? What if they have an xbox or PS3 that do the same things? (or why shouldnt they buy an xbox or ps3 for comparable prices to do those things). At 300+, tivo premiere is one of the more expensive add-ons you can get, and arguably you get less than you get with a ps3 or xbox 360. (if one of these had dvr capabilities, look out below tivo)

Its a quandry that tivo really needs to solve.


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

TiVoStephen said:


> It's a much more powerful unit with much larger capacity with a much improved interface. Please see http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10462438-1.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 for more.
> 
> Best,
> Stephen


Stephen,

Much Improved User Interface? You didn't ask customers since day 1 like myself and my wife. We have hated the beta search UI, and we hate this. It is too complex, too graphically noisy, too slow to fill in details and too wrong.

Sorry.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

sriggins said:


> Stephen,
> 
> Much Improved User Interface? You didn't ask customers since day 1 like myself and my wife. We have hated the beta search UI, and we hate this. It is too complex, too graphically noisy, too slow to fill in details and too wrong.
> 
> Sorry.


Actually they've been taking comments on the interface for over a year. But then you know that since you commented in the beta forum.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Based on what we've heard so far, would you consider buying the new Tivo?


For what? A UI I would pay good money to have replaced by the old TiVo UI - which I never use? (Maybe if they got rid of the stupid, screen wasting icons.) I should be thrilled at the prospect of having the ability to get a massive amount of music to which I do not want to listen, when my old TiVos have almost every song to which I would like to listen on them (or more properly, on the server)?

The only thing really good I have seen in all the reviews is it is smaller and uses less power. Well, maybe. I have green drives in two of my TiVos, and I suspect the new TiVo may not use all that much less power than my green TiVos.

Oh, I almost forgot. There is one other good thing about the new TiVo I saw in the reviews. It isn't tru2way. But then neither are my S3 and THD TiVos.


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

nrc said:


> Actually they've been taking comments on the interface for over a year. But then you know that since you commented in the beta forum.


I had actually forgotten I had 

I've been very frustrated with TiVo as a loyal customer. I can't even recommend them anymore. I was very sad when I discovered that my XBOX 360 Netflix app was better than the TiVo by far. I reported issues over and over. TiVoStephen even DM'ed me on twitter saying someone would call to help work out the issues. Nobody ever did. I asked him 20 days later. Said someone would call. Nobody ever did.

I just gave up. I tried to give feedback, posted error reports, spent a lot of my personal time. But in this case, Microsoft (hate to say it) kicked TiVo's ass. And the gap is widening.

My wife finally gave up on TiVo netflix.

And the new search UI, at least on our S3 hardware, ugh, we never used it for more than 20 minutes before just giving up with the speed issues and going back to the default UI.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

sriggins said:


> Stephen,
> 
> Much Improved User Interface? You didn't ask customers since day 1 like myself and my wife. We have hated the beta search UI, and we hate this. It is too complex, too graphically noisy, too slow to fill in details and too wrong.
> 
> Sorry.


:up::up::up::up:

Amen, brother. "Improved" would mean at least 20 lines of text, preferably with both titles and descriptions all on one page. Oh, I don't know, something like this:


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

lrhorer said:


> :up::up::up::up:
> 
> Amen, brother. "Improved" would mean at least 20 lines of text, preferably with both titles and descriptions all on one page. Oh, I don't know, something like this:


Heh well that is certainly something I would never use. Yow.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

That text is much, much too small for a TiVo. The new UI may be HD, but we're still talking about a "ten-foot interface" here.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

wmcbrine said:


> That text is much, much too small for a TiVo. The new UI may be HD, but we're still talking about a "ten-foot interface" here.


Nonsense! I display that very screen* on the same displays (well, two of them - the third is a 26" NTSC CRT) supplied by my TiVo. It works just fine. With video libraries extending into the thousands of titles, eight or ten lines of text on the screen is unacceptable, as is any wasted screen real estate whatsoever. Having to drill into (or even select) a line item to get details on it is unacceptable. The new UI isn't any better than the old in this respect.

*Note: I diminished the size of the screen capture so it would fit readily on most people's browser window, and to take less space. Normally it would be 1920 X 1200 on my desktops or of course 1920 x 1080 on my TVs.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, I'm gonna say squinting is even less acceptable.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

As I said in another post with a poll, I'm happy with my 3 TiVo HD boxes and not going to upgrade. But I got to thinking about what is involved with upgrading. I would first have to transfer all the programs off my TiVo HDs to the new boxes or keep the TiVo HDs hooked to the TV until I clear all the programs. I will also have to transfer the season passes. There will also be a $150 service fee from my cable company to come out and switch all the CableCards. I can't do it myself because each box has a unique ID that the cable person needs to call in to get the cards to work. I was charged $150 twice already since I didn't get all the TiVo HDs at the same time and they had to make two separate service calls. I really don't want to pay the cable company again. This is just too much money and effort for me to spend to get a new UI for my TiVo.


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

Allanon said:


> This is just too much money and effort for me to spend to get a new UI for my TiVo.


Bingo. Where is the keep my data on their server farm, so I can move to a new box easily?

Where is the networked TiVo, that can decide oh you want to watch these 4 programs, have a tivo in the living room, and one in the bedroom, so we'll schedule these two shows in one room, and these two in the other room?

There are *so many things* they could have done to a) sell more tivos and b) solve the problem the tivo invented - television management.

Before TiVo, we had issues of running out of tape, or overwriting something we wanted to keep, no to mention physical issues.

Now, I have to spend time every week in the to do list making sure TiVo is doing what I want.

1) because of data errors (not tivo's fault, in other than they've done apparently little to help solve the data issue), I have to deal NBC repeat being recorded even though I said first run only

2) I have to deal with some show changing channels. Why do I care what channel a show is on? that always bugged me about TiVo.

3) I have to deal with shows that are running long and TiVo can't push to millions of units that they might want to extend the recording. If you are a modem, you don't get that feature. Internet? Boom, your recording is extended by 3 minutes every 3 minutes.

4) I have to deal with marathons that might spam my inbox and push out an episode I might not have actually seen.

5) I have to set calendar events to remind myself to try and look for new show data, because they started advertising 2 months early and TiVo only has two weeks of data. Why can't I set up a wishlist that sends me sms or email when a new episode shows up in the wishlist? ie, not record everything, but also not lie dormant in the now playing. Send me an email saying "Amazing Race wishlist has new content" with a link that let's me log in and set up the season pass.

6) Send me email or sms when the tivo is getting full with links so I can deal with the issue while out

7) No iPhone app to add/remove shows easy without navigating a clumsy website. For example, I just logged in to My Tivo. Top left is what's new in tivo, ie ads stuff they sell. oN the right is account info. Bottom left is my my dvr.

Ah there, bottom right, without a header is the my now playing and my to do list. Probably the main thing I want to do when logging into tivo.com is relegated to the bottom right of the top third of the page. If you scroll, there is even more cruft on the page.

Now granted, the site has gotten better over the years, but it does not go far enough. Looking at the to do list, why can't I click a x next to a show to remove it via the site?

Why doesn't it show right there with a disclosure triangle that there is stuff that isn't recording due to conflicts? I could open the disclosure and say shoot! Such and such isn't recording because of THIS? I need to fix that!

In fact, I don't even see any way to show what isn't being recorded due to conflicts via the website.

8) No way to backup my TiVo easily to a Mac, maybe a PC. I can buy roxio but shouldn't I be able to at least back up my settings somewhere, even to the website so I can restore them in case of a failure? If this is happening, I am just unaware of it. I understand backing up the recordings is extremely slow and takes up a ton of space, but they could migrate my settings.

9) Why can't I buy a second tivo and slave it to the first? So I still "watch" the first tivo, I still set the "TiVo" up, the second one just acts as a recorder/hard disk/dual tuner slave? That way I can record 3 or 4 shows at once. Or I can put the second box in the bedroom as mentioned above and instead of missing a show, I can go in there to watch it (or over the network) but why must I be forced to *manage* two tivos? Now I'm playing television studio director and trying to decide what two shows will be on this tivo and what two are on that one, and oh shoot a conflict came up on this one but crud the other tivo has even lower priority stuff so I'll run and add the show there too and uuuuuuuuuugh 

Maybe some of this functionality, spending less time babysitting your TV set, will come with the new units, but at the expense of a UI that is slower or noisier or even more ad laden than what we had before. /sigh

As you can tell, I care about TiVo because they were so evolutionary. Now I'm just sad.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Sriggins,

You really hit it on the head with the source of a lot of frustration. I think that the root of all of this is that TiVo continues to be reactive to the market instead of doing something that really is game changing.

Let's build a sweet new UI for TiVo! That was something they should have had going over a year ago and certainly did not need some huge press release talking about how it was reinventing the DVR.

10 years ago TiVo rocked the world because they told people they could get rid of their antiquated and pathetic VCRs and watch all of the shows they loved without having to deal with it.

TiVo really had an opportunity to do this again with the ability to source media directly from providers along with many many other gems that you mention related to box/program management.

The best thing that can happen to TiVo now is that someone with a pair of balls buys them out and starts the innovation again. Right now TiVo is a shell of its former self.


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## NickIN (Dec 26, 2002)

TiVoStephen said:


> Wanna bet?


No I don't want to bet. I'm sure it's coming at some point. I just can't for the life of me understand why you had to eyes of the technology world on you and failed to give as much as a wink or a nod about it if it's imminent.


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## David Scavo (Dec 14, 1999)

rtmoore4 said:


> Wow, no offense Stephen, but how does a much faster unit with a new improved interface justify "inventing the DVR was just a warmup" treatment? Sorry, but Marketing really screwed the pooch on this one. You're supposed to underpromise and overdeliver. Not the other way around. Sure build some buzz, talk about something really cool that is coming, but make sure you can back it up. This is nothing but a slight upgrade, that quite frankly DOESN'T OFFER ANY NEW FEATURES. Ok, so it's packaged better. Great. It's faster. Fantastic. But how is that game changing?


+1

I have been a TIVO sub since 1999, but this box in no way lives up to the hype they labeled it with. I was expecting something more like whole house DVR with coordinated scheduling not a new UI, smaller box, and a faster processor.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Well I wanted a 2nd HD TiVo anyway, just held off to see what would get announced.

I'll probably wait until the first hands on reports get posted here, before I pull the trigger, just because there are a couple things I'm still wondering about:
* How soon will the drive upgrade tools support it (and how big a drive can it take)
* Hands on impressions of the new UI
* Is that TV-in-menus window going to end up spoiling shows you're currently recording?
* What are the transfer speeds like (to the computer, to a TiVo HD, and to another Premiere)
* How does the THX calibration work on the XL. (Does it allow you to adjust your TV or adjust the TiVo. Later would be preferable since the TV is already calibrated to the blu-ray, so any issues I found would be due to differences between the devices. Further adjusting the TV wouldn't help)

But it seems quite unlikely that I'd get an TiVo HD instead.


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## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Based on what we've heard so far, would you consider buying the new Tivo?


I might buy one. i just upgradeed my tv in the bed room to a 32" hdtv. and i have a s2 lifetime hooked to it.


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## lvthunder (Apr 4, 2002)

Would you all like some cheese with your whine. I mean we haven't even seen what can be done with these boxes yet. I'm sure some of this stuff will be implemented with software updates like TiVo has done in the past. Remember TiVo's motto of UI if it's too complicated my grandma can't figure it out and see how that would apply to some of the stuff you are talking about.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Jonathan_S said:


> But it seems quite unlikely that I'd get an TiVo HD instead.


Tivo has made that decision easier for you since they are no longer carrying the Tivo HD or XL, unless you were able to find one on ebay.


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## flaminiom (Dec 27, 2008)

jmpage2 said:


> put it this way, people thought it was a *GIVEN* that you guys would be announcing Hulu on this thing and you couldn't even deliver that.


As Hulu is firewalling the living room, I don't see how that could be a reasonable given at all. Hack? maybe. Partner? No way.

I don't want to get in a position to defend Tivo, but there are players involved in the market with which Tivo has no control.

Lets try to be a little realistic with expectations and reaction.


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## mike3775 (Jan 3, 2003)

Nope. None of those new features appeal to me, and honestly, with my HDTivo sitting in a box in the closet until I can afford a new HD to replace the one that died after only 1 1/2 yrs, its going to take ALOT for me to ever want to spend money on a Tivo ever again.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

I just checked on Tivo.com - my upgrade offer is 50&#37; off ($200 off) of a lifetime subscription with a new Tivo Premiere.

That would make the Premiere $498.99 for lifetime with a break even point just over 33 months for me (pay $15/mo for HD-DVR rental now). Not a bad deal since I don't have an S3/HD unit. I think that's pretty much what they were offering me before except the discount was on the actual hardware and not the lifetime subscription.


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## Teggy (Oct 24, 2001)

I was definitely let down by this announcement. I'm sure I will wind up with a Premiere when I replace one of my remaining SDTVs with HD, but there's nothing here to make me want to upgrade. What I've really been waiting for is more MRV options (actually, if I could just get remote delete I would be ecstatic).


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

lvthunder said:


> Would you all like some cheese with your whine. I mean we haven't even seen what can be done with these boxes yet. I'm sure some of this stuff will be implemented with software updates like TiVo has done in the past. Remember TiVo's motto of UI if it's too complicated my grandma can't figure it out and see how that would apply to some of the stuff you are talking about.


TiVo doesn't exactly have a great track record for implementing new whiz bang features. If anything they tend to bog the box down, break things, and make the whole UI run slower with each new "feature" they bring to the table.

Grandma is already going to find the new UI confusing as there is an updating channel banner on the top of the menu to show programs, this is a radical departure from the old TiVo interface.

This should not be an excuse for TiVo showing off real new features for this box or even showing off a PREVIEW of things that they will be bringing to the box in the next six months, if any such works are even in progress.

This really just looks like a money grab to take advantage of the living room HD transformation. Get a new box out with a spiffy HD UI and try to sell some more boxes until they can get Series-5 ready.

While TiVo is a business entitled to make as much money in the market as they can, this new box has very poor prospects for selling well in my opinion. There is simply not enough value proposition with all of the new extender type products that are coming out as well as Moxi with a bold new "subscription" model that is shaking things up.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

I'm even more disappointed this morning than I was last night. This box is evolutionary, while the over-hyped announcement screamed revolutionary. To add insult to injury, TiVo still hasn't learned to make product available at announcement, rather than off in the future.

I have been a long-time supporter of Tivo, but feel they just don't care about the standalone user anymore and they have forgotten that the vast majority of people want the best DVR, not bells and whistles.

The S4:
- should have had SDV tuning adapter support built in. Within a year or so, every Tivo user with Cable will almost certainly need one.
- should have had support for more than 2 tuners
- should have provided a true streaming option for MRV and/or a remote client. Doesn't Tivo understand that without this and TWC current use of the CCI byte that a major feature of Tivo is unusable?
- should have improved the basic DVR functions (scheduling, conflict management, etc)

I know a lot of people wanted wireless support built in, but I can still see that as optional for many. Would have made FAR more sense to have SDV and more tuners.

I agree that things have to get easier with CableCARD installs, but I can't fault Tivo for that. They are on the right track with their comments to the FCC that we need IP support and a gateway approach.

And, since Tivo didn't include any of the above items that would help the box market itself, the Premiere won't matter unless Tivo can figure out how to market it. Given that they have been unwilling or unable to counterpunch MSOs, Joe Public still isn't going to have any understanding how a Premiere is any different from a cable DVR.

I'll probably end up getting a Premiere if I can sell one of my S3s or THDs with lifetime so my net cost is zero. But this isn't like the S3 announcement that made me buy two on day 1. Or even the THD, where I bought one just to have one.

The Premiere is sadly more sizzle than steak. And I'm hungry for a much better DVR than I have now.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Tivo is dead. They just can't compete against free. 

It's strange to think Tivo was one of the best electronic products I've ever purchased. #1 from my wife's viewpoint. 

And yet the company never got anywhere. It never took off.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> ...
> 
> The S4:
> - should have had SDV tuning adapter support built in. Within a year or so, every Tivo user with Cable will almost certainly need one.
> ...


I agree with much of your list.

I'd like more than 2 tuners. Streaming is a key thing. I'd also like updated DVR functions that you list.

But I think you are stretching with SDV. TWC customers will need it, but comcast is spending billions to go all digital and avoid sdv, fios will never need it. When you subtract directv (getting their own box) and dish (never gonna happen)- TWC is only like 15 percent of the marketplace. Even if much of the other cable companies go that route it wont be a majority of households anytime soon. So why battle it out with cablelabs to fight for a new approval and then spend the money to include both flavors of SDV hardware in the box? If wireless N and bluetooth radios are too expensive to keep the pricepoint low enough how is including 2 flavors of tuning adapter hardware going to allow them to sell at a reasonable price point?

In 3-5 years the next step might be tru2way, it might be this same sdv dongle bs for all, it might be ip backchannel via ethernet like seachange and tivo worked out (and I think tivo asked the FCC to implement?), it might be all IPTV, it might be something all together different. So why spend the money and resources to saddle yourself with TWC's sdv mess for that time when who knows if it even lives?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> Tivo is dead. They just can't compete against free.
> 
> It's strange to think Tivo was one of the best electronic products I've ever purchased. #1 from my wife's viewpoint.
> 
> And yet the company never got anywhere. It never took off.


I'm sorry your TiVos don't work anymore.

And which are these "free" products you are talking about?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

People need to get over the announcement hype. Yes it was stupid, but it was so over the top that it was obviously BS from the beginning. Let's judge the Premiere on its own merits.


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## StuffOfInterest (Jul 18, 2007)

Aren't there enough threads out there already fo rpeople to complain about what is lacking? This thread has a stated topic which most appear to be ignoring.

I'll likely buy a TiVo Premier in a few months to replace a FiOS Motorola QIP 7216 HD DVR, which has been a pain in the neck. Being that I have a S2DT on lifetime already, I'll be able to get the Premier with lifetime for about $500. The cost differential between a HD DVR ($16/mo) and a CableCard ($4/mo) means that the TiVo will pay for itself in about 3-1/2 years.

Considering that I used my Sony Series 1 TiVo for six years and my S2DT for almost three years now, it is a pretty good bet I'd use the TiVo Premier for the 3-1/2 years to reach my break even point.

I won't buy on day one of availability. New products have hiccups so I'll let the early adopters suffer through a few before I commit my little remaining patience to integrating a new TiVo into my home entertainment system.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> Tivo is dead. They just can't compete against free.
> 
> It's strange to think Tivo was one of the best electronic products I've ever purchased. #1 from my wife's viewpoint.
> 
> And yet the company never got anywhere. It never took off.


What is free?


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

I'll almost certainly buy one. The upgrade pricing is pretty attractive. What I'm not sure about is whether I'll buy lifetime for it or not. I'm still annoyed with TiVo for wanting to charge me more than the cost of a new THD to replace one that broke less than a year after I transferred lifetime to it.


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## stmckin (Sep 23, 2006)

Raj said:


> Not buying one and now firmly in the windows media center camp. My series 3 is on ebay and my series 2 will be soon.


agreed.... Tivo had the burden of catching up with the kind of functionality we can get with a little bit of effort on win7 Media Center and saving us that effort at a good price... Premier doesn't deliver that in function / easy of use / price....

Worst of all, my Series 3 is now stuck in dead end software development line hell.... sure it'll work well 'as is' if I want to stay in the cable TV dependent world... but I don't: I was looking for Tivo to start delivering iptv in an easy to digest form so I can give my money to them ala carte instead of my cable provider..... sigh.

ATT beat Tivo to iptv world....

Think about that for a second: one of the most traditional, slow to strategically move, cumbersome companies on the planet.. geared up infrastructure, developed software and hardware bases, blew up vdsl, created a marketing machine and got many subscribers before Tivo (who already had the box and subscribers and should be able to move like a lambo) could come up with one generational software leap.


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

wmcbrine said:


> People need to get over the announcement hype. Yes it was stupid, but it was so over the top that it was obviously BS from the beginning. Let's judge the Premiere on its own merits.


Can not agree more. It is not a first time TiVo marketing made a stupid move. Get used to it. The fact is that Premier is a reasonable DVR, it even has FSI and PIP now. It is faster than S3 and UI has been updated first time in 10 years. What's wrong with it?


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## TWinbrook46636 (Feb 9, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> People need to get over the announcement hype. Yes it was stupid, but it was so over the top that it was obviously BS from the beginning. Let's judge the Premiere on its own merits.


What merits?


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

What Media Center PC that supports CableCARD can I purchase for less than the cost of one of these with lifetime? What about without lifetime?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

stmckin said:


> ... but I don't: I was looking for Tivo to start delivering iptv in an easy to digest form so I can give my money to them ala carte instead of my cable provider..... sigh.
> 
> ATT beat Tivo to iptv world....


so TiVo has Unbox tha tlets you buy shows one at a time and easily download them - TiVo has netflix that lets you consume lots of media for just 9$ a month by simple search for title nad then instant watch - both can do HD of the streaming sort.

AT&T sells a lineup with teirs like other cable companies and you can only do so much HD at a time

so which did you really want? TiVo delivered what you say you want but somehow since AT&T uses IP that is what you really wanted - just that it is delivered over IP?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

samo said:


> Can not agree more. It is not a first time TiVo marketing made a stupid move. Get used to it. The fact is that Premier is a reasonable DVR, it even has FSI and PIP now. It is faster than S3 and UI has been updated first time in 10 years. What's wrong with it?


it took out all the things people were getting comfortable *****ing about here 

Give it 6 months and actual looks at the HD UI with all the good little things in it and the whine fest will have moved on to something else.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> - should have improved the basic DVR functions (scheduling, conflict management, etc)


Actually according to the pre-release FAQ thread it does have improved conflict management. I don't know what that means exactly but hopefully it allows you to cancel either of the 2 currently scheduled recordings instead of just the lowest priority one.

Also, it seems to have different Now playing lists for different users. That seems good.

Faster MRV transfers is going to be nice.

Some people like the tv picture in the corner thing. I like it but hopefully there's a way to turn it off when you're in the NPL. I do want to have it when I'm in the guide or the to do list.

Also, I like the free space indicator. I'm always monitoring deleted shows or checking that Tivo NPL computer program to see how much space I have left.

It seems like the UI has a lot of show information so you can check episode guides and IMDB type features.

Is this thing revolutionary? No. Is it a very good DVR with some nice extras and a really nice interface? Yes. Sure I wish it had more tuners and cooperative scheduling but what are you going to do. I'm not going to run and get one as my 2 TivoHDs are only about a year old so I'm not going to run and get one. But it's a nice box.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

jmpage2 said:


> This is a beefed up TiVo with an HD interface that adds nothing new.


Now. I believe TiVo has big plans that they can likely execute on the S4 platform, which they cannot on the S3.


> TiVo has done *nothing* to address the antiquated subscriber model.


Which isn't broken for them.



> Where's the capability to free us from the Cable Card?


Nobody has approved, yet implented one yet, at least a major provider in the USA, that I heard of.


> Where's the pioneering apps?
> 
> 
> > Where's the next gen TiVo transfer functionality?
> ...


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Short answer, not anythime soon.

Not because of what it is or isn't really, other than it isn't a DVR that can record in HD from my HD satellite receiver.

I simply do not have any of the sources it supports to make it worthwhile.


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## sbq (Feb 6, 2010)

just pre-ordered mine. i'm upgrading from a 5 1/2 year old S2 that has a monthly contract to a Premiere XL. got $100 off the XL price so I paid $399 instead of $499 for it.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

There's a reasonably good chance I'll buy one just to play with; probably also means I should sell off a classic Series 3 that it'd replace along with two Series2DT units that've been sitting around.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> People need to get over the announcement hype. Yes it was stupid, but it was so over the top that it was obviously BS from the beginning. Let's judge the Premiere on its own merits.


for us I agree- but i think plenty of the mainstream media bought it hook line and sinker. I even saw one article implying that the tivo premiere was going to SAVE BLOCKBUSTER because so many people would be buying BB's VOD on the premiere. (where's hte luaghing hysterical emoticon?) There's plenty of fluff peices about this "revolutionary new product"

so maybe tivo's marketing isn't all that crazy after all.

But either way you are right- people should move along and get past the hype


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## JimParks (May 24, 2007)

My cable provider doesn't have multi-stream cable cards. They only have the single stream ones. I have asked if they can get them but haven't heard back yet.


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## lvthunder (Apr 4, 2002)

JimParks said:


> My cable provider doesn't have multi-stream cable cards. They only have the single stream ones. I have asked if they can get them but haven't heard back yet.


Then get either the S3 or HD model. If not only one tuner will work until the cable company can get you a multi-stream card.


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## JimParks (May 24, 2007)

TiVoStephen said:


> Wanna bet?


I'm on Tivo's email list for when the Direct TV/Tivo comes out.


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## JimParks (May 24, 2007)

lvthunder said:


> Then get either the S3 or HD model. If not only one tuner will work until the cable company can get you a multi-stream card.


I actually have two 3's and one HD. I'm kind of a gadget guy so I probably will get one. On the other hand, there are a couple of channels that my cable provider, Antietam Cable, doesn't carry so I am also waiting to see what the Tivo/Direct TV box is like. I just might replace one of my S3's with Direct TV.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

JimParks said:


> My cable provider doesn't have multi-stream cable cards. They only have the single stream ones. I have asked if they can get them but haven't heard back yet.


little dink provider?


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## Troy J B (Sep 27, 2003)

When a new TiVo can record 3+ streams off the cable card I will think about upgrading, but until that time, my Series3 is good enough for me.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

I'm seriously thinking of picking up a Premier XL for the living room, moving my lifetime S3 to the bedroom, and probably selling my lifetime S2 DVR-810H for what I can get. I qualify for the 50&#37; off lifetime deal as both my current boxes (and the other 4 I used to own...) all have lifetime.

More tuners would be nice, but two is really enough for my needs - I very, very, very rarely have a three way conflict, and even then at least one of the shows airs again later.

Having a full HD UI and better performance would be nice.


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## Playloud (Jan 6, 2008)

Not enough of an upgrade. Unless my Tivo HD breaks, and I don't feel like building a HTPC, I don't seem myself buying a Premiere.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm going all in with the Premiere. I'll get six Lifetime units and sell my six Lifetime S3/TiVoHD boxes. It seems like a good deal especially since I can either keep or sell my old units. Then my other three boxes on monthly will be sold when the subscription runs out. Leaving me with six Premiere boxes, since I really don't need nine boxes, just six.
And I'll get the 3 year warranty on all the boxes since I don't plan on replacing the hard drive. Although I still might get one without the extended warranty to mess around with.


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

I pre-ordered a Premiere, and might (probably) switch from DirecTV back to cable in the process.

I hate the DirecTV box and am sick of waiting for a new DirecTivo. I also want to consolidate Netflix with my viewing options because the 360 is too loud and I have to move my Gold account around via memory card.

So why not go with a current S3 HD? True HD UI is nice (I hope it's fast!), newer processor, and potential future upgrades. I wasn't caught up in the marketing hype, but I'll have to admit my first reaction to the Premiere's unveiling was still disappointment. Then, as I started talking about switching back to Tivo with friends who love their S3, my excitement for the new box grew.

Judging by this thread, the next Tivo isn't much for current-gen HD users. But as someone who's gone without Tivo for years, I'm looking forward to sipping the cool-aid again -- I can't wait for the Premiere!


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## SMWinnie (Aug 17, 2002)

I'm certainly not going to be an early adopter. If pyTivo and WinMFS work reliably and if Premiere <-> TiVo HD copies work well then I will be adding a Premiere.

I have a Motorola 6412 that I would immediately replace with a Premiere if the Premiere supported Comcast's On Demand. (My younger kid loves On Demand.)


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

From another thread



Bsteenson said:


> Also, I realized after I had placed my order for a new Premiere that I'm not sure pyTiVo will work with the new box, either. My enjoyment of TiVo would be seriously compromised if I couldn't transfer movies etc. from my computer to TiVo (and don't tell me about TiVo Desktop. Paid for the Plus version, hated it, never use it.)





wmcbrine said:


> It will. Better, even. Or so I'm told.


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## PaulNEPats (Aug 11, 2007)

Maybe down the road. I'll wait until the dust clears after launch and see what exactly can/can't be done with these boxes.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Jonathan_S said:


> I'll probably wait until the first hands on reports get posted here, before I pull the trigger, just because there are a couple things I'm still wondering about:
> [snip]
> * How does the THX calibration work on the XL. (Does it allow you to adjust your TV or adjust the TiVo. Later would be preferable since the TV is already calibrated to the blu-ray, so any issues I found would be due to differences between the devices. Further adjusting the TV wouldn't help)


Looks like that's just a calibration video to help adjust your TV.


TiVo Premiere manual said:


> *Optimize THX* Your TiVo Premiere XL includes a video in the My Shows or Now Playing list that helps you optimize THX sound and video. If your TV screen exceeds 50", THX recommends playing the THX Optimizer.


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## propeciakid (Sep 26, 2008)

WhiskeyTango said:


> Based on what we've heard so far, would you consider buying the new Tivo?


Normally, I would wait but with the new HD interface, speedier processor, smaller profile, energy savings, and the discounted lifetime it was enough to convince me to order the new Series 4 box.


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## Alphi (Dec 11, 2004)

I'll be honest, I'm truly torn. You see, I'll be in the market (very soon) for a new (HD) TiVo anyways, as in a few months my cable provider (Comcast) will stop broadcasting most of their analog channels, and my Humax DVD/TiVo that we have in the bedroom will need to be replaced (either that or have to deal with letting the Humax control yet another bulky cable box - not the preferable option, to be sure).

But at the same time, I consider the bedroom TiVo as our "second" Tivo (which, mind you, is hooked to a non-HDTV television), while the primary one (a relatively-new Lifetime TiVo HD that I upgraded by swapping the HD for a 1TB one) is in the living room.

So on the one hand, I don't want to have the better TiVo in the bedroom (unable to utilize the HD display anyways).

But at the same time, I also don't want to either upgrade the new one right away, nor would I want to do the swap of moving the current HD Tivo to the bedroom (especially considering having 1TB there is EXTREME overkill - we rarely have more than 10-20 hours of programming on it anyways).


So realistically, what I figure will happen is this:

1) In the next few months I'll pick up a TiVo HD for the bedroom, and have Lifetime put on it
2) Eventually I'll buy a TiVo Premiere (or maybe even something newer - we're talking at least a year or two down the road), and I'll either buy the XL outright, or I'll buy the standard (smaller) one and upgrade it myself
3) I'll move my current TiVo HD into the basement (where my third analog TiVo currently resides, getting even less use than the bedroom one). Of course, hopefully by then we'll have the basement rec room finished and be using it more.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Alphi said:


> But at the same time, I consider the bedroom TiVo as our "second" Tivo (which, mind you, is hooked to a non-HDTV television), while the primary one (a relatively-new Lifetime TiVo HD that I upgraded by swapping the HD for a 1TB one) is in the living room.


so get a new premiere with just the 320 gig drive - put it in the bedroom and use classic menus option.

Then when the initial kinks are out of the new HD UI and folks figure out how to upgrade the premiere - do an upgrade and swap them then. Sure you have a 1TB in the bedroom - but more room is not really a problem - set it to record a bunch of movies for those rainy weekends.


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## JimParks (May 24, 2007)

I was, but my cable provider, Antietam Cable Hagerstown MD, doesn't have M-Cards and apparently don't plan on getting any. Not only that, they won't even return my calls, which is a shame because in the past they gave outstanding service and returned calls, answered my questions and if I went into their office, someone from the back would come out front to talk to me. I guess the $255 a month I am paying them for cable, phone, internet, is not worth much of anything.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

I'm going back and forth about upgrading. $239 isn't bad, and if I decide to sell my Tivo HD I can probably get $100+ for it so that drops my upgrade price to $139. But I'm not seeing a lot in functionality to justify the upgrade.

HOWEVER, as someone else pointed out, this may be a launching pad for future software updates. When I heard about Premiere's features I immediately thought the upgrade to Snow Leopard for Mac. Was there much of an incentive for Leopard users to upgrade? Not really, considering that almost all the updates were under the hood. But those updates are paving th way for future OS releases.

Now, Apple charged $29 for SL versus their usual OS upgrade price of $129. It would have been nice to see a little more savings than $60 for current owners ($60 for Tivo HD) but is $239 so bad?

All I needed from Tivo to instantly plop down my money was two things: the ability to record a third HD show (eg. Moxi), and release a cheaper client Tivo to stream shows from the main DVR (Moxi, AT&T's uVerse). Built in Wireless-N would have been nice too, but that's not a deal breaker for me.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Thunderclap said:


> I'm going back and forth about upgrading. $239 isn't bad, and if I decide to sell my Tivo HD I can probably get $100+ for it so that drops my upgrade price to $139. But I'm not seeing a lot in functionality to justify the upgrade.
> 
> HOWEVER, as someone else pointed out, this may be a launching pad for future software updates. When I heard about Premiere's features I immediately thought the upgrade to Snow Leopard for Mac. Was there much of an incentive for Leopard users to upgrade? Not really, considering that almost all the updates were under the hood. But those updates are paving th way for future OS releases.
> 
> ...


A 3rd tuner costs money! Yes, Moxi have a DVR with 3 tuners but look at the price ($599 and it only has a 500GB hard drive). I don't need or want a 3rd tuner at that price. I'm glad TiVo stuck with 2 tuners to keep the costs down, otherwise, I wouldn't buy a Premier.

Same goes for built in Wi-Fi. I don't want to waste money on built in Wi-Fi when I will never use it. I wired my apartment with GB Ethernet. I like that TiVo give you the choice. Buy Wi-Fi if you need it. Setup up your own Wireless Ethernet Bridge as an alternative. Just don't pass on the cost of useless built in Wi-Fi to people who don't need it.

If you want to stream TiVo to other rooms, consider a SlingBox Solo and a SlingCatcher. That's what I use. With a SlingBox, you stream whatever TiVo outputs, live. It's not a perfect solution, but if all you need to do is watch TiVo in another room, say your bedroom, a SlingBox and a SlingCatcher works extremely well. Once you setup a SlingBox, you can also watch (and control) TiVo on any PC or Laptop with their SlingPlayer software and if you travel, you can even watch your TiVo over the Internet from anywhere!


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## i2k (Apr 3, 2008)

yep all over it.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

the moxi has 3 tuners because it doesn't do OTA, digital, and analog cable on all it's "tuners". it basically is Digital cable or the highway.

Tivo choose a design that allows 2 of any channel at a time. Moxi picked a design that allows 3 of some channels (and 1 more of another with an additional cost dongle).

for whatever reason the SOC chip vendors dont (or didn't until recently) make a good combination of chips to do 3 or 4 of any channel at the same time.

I wish broadcom or whoever would make a 4 of anything chipset. At this point i can personally probably go the all digital cable route- but seems tivo doesn't want to snub the analog cable and OTA markets yet so for the time being we're all in the same boat.

alternatively tivo can just fix their darn software to gang 2 or more tivo's and we get 4 (or 6, or 8, or ...) of anything. I guess just like there are some that 'just need the one more tuner that the 3 would provide'- there will be more that 'just needs 4 tuners so just add another to the 3'. If tivo (or moxi) can figure out cooperative operation then it would be nirvana for all....


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

MichaelK said:


> the moxi has 3 tuners because it doesn't do OTA, digital, and analog cable on all it's "tuners". it basically is Digital cable or the highway.
> 
> Tivo choose a design that allows 2 of any channel at a time. Moxi picked a design that allows 3 of some channels (and 1 more of another with an additional cost dongle).
> 
> ...


This is a good idea! If it were possible to 'slave' a 2nd TiVo to the 1st, purely for it's tuners and storage, WITHOUT having to control the 2nd TiVo separately OR having to setup a subscription for the 2nd TiVo, I'd be all over it! I wouldn't mind paying the cost of the hardware. I just don't want 2 separate TiVos to deal with.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

TrueTurbo said:


> If you want to stream TiVo to other rooms, consider a SlingBox Solo and a SlingCatcher. That's what I use. With a SlingBox, you stream whatever TiVo outputs, live. It's not a perfect solution, but if all you need to do is watch TiVo in another room, say your bedroom, a SlingBox and a SlingCatcher works extremely well. Once you setup a SlingBox, you can also watch (and control) TiVo on any PC or Laptop with their SlingPlayer software and if you travel, you can even watch your TiVo over the Internet from anywhere!


Yeah, but to use Slingbox you need a computer in the bedroom. When I watch TV I want to watch it on a tv, not a 13" laptop screen.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Thunderclap said:


> Yeah, but to use Slingbox you need a computer in the bedroom.


Not true. The SlingCatcher allows you to sling stuff directly to a TV ...

http://www.slingbox.com/go/slingcatcher


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> the moxi has 3 tuners because it doesn't do OTA, digital, and analog cable on all it's "tuners". it basically is Digital cable or the highway.
> 
> Tivo choose a design that allows 2 of any channel at a time. Moxi picked a design that allows 3 of some channels (and 1 more of another with an additional cost dongle).
> 
> ...


Right. There are no demodulators available that support more than a single ATSC (OTA) tuner per chip. Today, a DVR manufacturer can pick from one of the following three chips:


1 ATSC + 1 QAM 
 2 QAM
 3 QAM
The Moxi is a single-chip design with either 2 QAM or 3 QAM tuners.

TiVo had several choices for its dual-chip design:


2x (1 ATSC + 1 QAM) = 2 ATSC or 2 QAM tuners
1x (1 ATSC + 1 QAM) + 1x (2 QAM) = 1 ATSC or 3 QAM tuners
1x (1 ATSC + 1 QAM) + 1x (3 QAM) = 1 ATSC or 4 QAM tuners
2x (2 QAM) = 4 QAM tuners
Note combining different demodulator ICs in a single design increases complexity. I'm assuming the transport module on the BCM7413 SoC is more comparable to the BCM7405 than the BCM7205.

TiVo opted for the only option -- A -- that would give them two ATSC (OTA) tuners. This product is also easiest for the consumer to understand, with two of every tuner.

Note if the FCC delivers on the proposed cable gateway mandate (pg 51-54), then the TiVo Premiere would gain additional tuners via IP. That would likely turn the Premiere into a quad-tuner DVR for digital cable.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

gweempose said:


> Not true. The SlingCatcher allows you to sling stuff directly to a TV ...
> 
> http://www.slingbox.com/go/slingcatcher


So $380 for the Sling stuff plus $12.95 for my Tivo service, or AT&T uVerse that does this for less. Yes... AT&T is starting to look better and better.

But I'd miss my Tivo.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Thunderclap said:


> So $380 for the Sling stuff plus $12.95 for my Tivo service, or AT&T uVerse that does this for less. Yes... AT&T is starting to look better and better.
> 
> But I'd miss my Tivo.


If AT&T u-Verse is available to you and it fulfills your requirements, go for it. If it's missing anything that TiVo provides, go for TiVo instead. TiVo is not u-Verse so why waste time wishing it was!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> If AT&T u-Verse is available to you and it fulfills your requirements, go for it. If it's missing anything that TiVo provides, go for TiVo instead. TiVo is not u-Verse so why waste time wishing it was!


Why would anyone wish TiVo was Uverse. Uverse would need be a last resort. How an entire family can get by with only two HD streams is beyond me. All the families with HD I know are watching several HD shows concurrently with Comcast and FiOS.


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Why would anyone wish TiVo was Uverse. Uverse would need be a last resort. How an entire family can get by with only two HD streams is beyond me. All the families with HD I know are watching several HD shows concurrently with Comcast and FiOS.


I'll admit I'm not that familiar with Uverse. I was more or less talking out my frustration that Tivo doesn't offer the one feature I had hoped they'd implement in their next line: content sharing between boxes without transferring. I really do like the Uverse feature of being able to pause in one room, and then pick up the same show from the same place in another room.

Now... if only the Tivo UI could group all my HD channels in one listing like Moxi I'd be a happy camper.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Thunderclap said:


> I really do like the U-verse feature of being able to pause in one room, and then pick up the same show from the same place in another room.


But you can do this with TiVo as well. You just need two or more boxes. The nice thing about TiVo is that every box you add gives you an extra two tuners. I'm not saying TiVo's MRV implementation is ideal by any means, but it works fairly well as long as your cable provider doesn't get overzealous with the CCI flag.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Thunderclap said:


> Now... if only the Tivo UI could group all my HD channels in one listing like Moxi I'd be a happy camper.


You can already do this with TiVo if you use the 'favorites' function. Go into the channel list and mark all your HD channels as 'favorites'. Then back in the guide, hit 'enter' and change the 'Channels' setting to 'favorites'.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> This is a good idea!
> 
> ...WITHOUT ... a subscription for the 2nd TiVo, I'd be all over it! ...


dont hold your breath on that. Personally i dont begrudge a second fee but i could see how some might.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> ...
> 
> Note if the FCC delivers on the proposed cable gateway mandate (pg 51-54), then the TiVo Premiere would gain additional tuners via IP. That would likely turn the Premiere into a quad-tuner DVR for digital cable.


lets see. what might happen first?

A) pigs fly
B) monkeys fly out someone's rear
c) both A&B
D) the FCC does anything to get cable to be friendly to third party devices in a timely manner?

C is more likely than D

_ps- thanks for the specifics on the chip choices. _


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> TiVo opted for the only option -- A -- that would give them two ATSC (OTA) tuners. This product is also easiest for the consumer to understand, with two of every tuner.


I don't know if you know this or not, but is there a large difference in prices of the chips? Meaning would it have been the most cost effective design to go with or would it have saved TiVo even more money dropping analog and OTA?

Ultimately it also sounds like with a two chip design they could have gone with a 6 tuner TiVo if they only used QAM. The limiting factor of course being the broadcom chip, but if you weren't looking to use but a single transfer/stream might be doable on the current platform.



bkdtv said:


> Note if the FCC delivers on the proposed cable gateway mandate (pg 51-54), then the TiVo Premiere would gain additional tuners via IP. That would likely turn the Premiere into a quad-tuner DVR for digital cable.


Would you care to explain this a little more as how they could possibly gain tuners via IP? I thought I got a little of how the IP setup would work, but then you lost me with this.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

I will not be buying one... Not until my Tivo HD breaks down.

I am very disappointed with the lack of compelling features. I really wanted 3-4 tuners. I wanted the Tuning Adapter to go away. And I wanted MRV and TTG to actually work!

This article is excellent. And sums up my feelings about the Premiere very well:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10466113-1.html

Did any of you participate in surveys or polls from Tivo regarding Premiere? It's like they designed this thing without any input from the Tivo enthusiasts out there...

Also, another BIG dispappointment. The keyboard remote is OPTIONAL... The more I read about the Premiere the more disappointed I become. Hopefully my Tivo HD will last until the *next* model comes out. Hopefully it will have the features that I want.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

dolfer said:


> I will not be buying one... Not until my Tivo HD breaks down.
> 
> I am very disappointed with the lack of compelling features. I really wanted 3-4 tuners. I wanted the Tuning Adapter to go away. And I wanted MRV and TTG to actually work!
> 
> ...


There's more than one way to read the article you linked to. If you're pessimistic, you'll focus on the 'primary grievance' list, ignore the 'plenty of pluses' list and ***** and moan about how the Premiere is a waste of time.

If you're optimistic, you'll read the 'primary grievance' list and realize that the Premier doesn't bring any new earth-shattering hardware functionality to the table. It just does everything your current TiVo HD or S3 does, only faster, with a better interface and with some capacity built in for future firmware and software expansions. Then you'll read the 'plenty of pluses' list and feel excited about what's to come with updates and applet releases.

I think between the two of us, we fall into each category rather nicely. I'll let you guess which category I fit into.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

dolfer said:


> ...
> I am very disappointed with the lack of compelling features. ... I wanted the Tuning Adapter to go away....


did anyone honestly think that was a possibility? The only widely deployed and cable sanctioned way for a 3rd party box to work with SDV is with the evil tuning adapters.

supposedly there are like all of 4 markets that comcast is testing OCAP.

And the only example of anyone allowing the return data exchange over ethernet is RCN with TIvo.

Notice none of the alternate methods seem to be deployed by TW who is the biggest pain in the butt about the tuning adapters...

So how did anyone expect tivo to make a box that could get SDV without the tuning adapters?


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## Xecuter2 (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm still thinking about buying one.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Xecuter2 said:


> I'm still thinking about buying one.


Price cut from $2000 to $299 at Best Buy. Time to jump on it!


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

innocentfreak said:


> I don't know if you know this or not, but is there a large difference in prices of the chips? Meaning would it have been the most cost effective design to go with or would it have saved TiVo even more money dropping analog and OTA?


Dropping analog and OTA like Moxi did would reduce design complexity and therefore cost.



innocentfreak said:


> Ultimately it also sounds like with a two chip design they could have gone with a 6 tuner TiVo if they only used QAM.


A six-tuner DVR needs more than the demodulators discussed above. It also needs silicon tuners. These are small and cheap (a few dollars each), but implementing six in a design increases board complexity and cost well beyond the price of the chips themselves.

One advantage of a dual-tuner design built using a SoC intended for 3-4 tuner designs is that it leaves more bandwidth for robust TTG and MRV.



innocentfreak said:


> Would you care to explain this a little more as how they could possibly gain tuners via IP? I thought I got a little of how the IP setup would work, but then you lost me with this.


Broadcom HD DVR SoCs offer anywhere from 3-6 external transport inputs for built-in tuners. In addition, they have a data transport module that can display and record anywhere from 2-8 streams over the network connection. _Varies by chip._

The U-Verse DVR doesn't have any built-in tuners. Instead, it uses the Broadcom data transport module to display and record up to four streams sent over the network connection by the AT&T residential gateway. These IP streams are sent over coax using HPNA, an alternative to MoCA, but the same could be done just as easily over 100Mbps ethernet, MoCA, or wireless 802.11n. That is exactly what the FCC's proposed IP gateway will do.

If we see such IP gateways, silicon tuners and QAM demodulators will become a thing of the past. The Broadcom's data transport module will be the only component (beyond memory, hard drive, etc) needed to display and record multiple streams from cable and satellite companies. Built-in tuners will only be necessary for OTA.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

> One advantage of a dual-tuner design built using a SoC intended for 3-4 tuner designs is that it leaves more bandwidth for robust TTG and MRV.


Too bad the current implementation of TTG & MRV are essentially useless for a large percentage of Tivo users...

I might be guilty of Montgomery Burnsian style thinking here... But in my selfish opinion, Tivo left out the #1 most desired capability when they failed to include more than 2 tuners. I love Tivo and all of the other features cool, but failing to have 3-4 tuners and not implementing TTG & MRV workarounds are major disappointments.


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