# wifi bolt to mini via moca question



## kendq (Jan 12, 2005)

I know the Mini cannot connect to the bolt via wifi because of streaming speed over wifi and thus has the moca option. what I did not realize is if the Bolt hooks up on wifi you cannot activate moca unless connected to Ethernet. don't know why that is (if you cant stream out side your network the mini only uses wifi for updates) . I just bought this setup for my daughter and her house has no Ethernet wiring but does have RG6 throughout. Does anyone has a workaround? (by the way this is a OTA setup so the cable is being used for antenna signal and the router is in the wrong corner of the house)


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

kendq said:


> I know the Mini cannot connect to the bolt via wifi because of streaming speed over wifi and thus has the moca option. what I did not realize is if the Bolt hooks up on wifi you cannot activate moca unless connected to Ethernet. don't know why that is (if you cant stream out side your network the mini only uses wifi for updates) . I just bought this setup for my daughter and her house has no Ethernet wiring but does have RG6 throughout. Does anyone has a workaround? (by the way this is a OTA setup so the cable is being used for antenna signal and the router is in the wrong corner of the house)


Without a diagram of your wiring, other options include using a separate MoCA adapter nearby your router, or possibly some kind of powerline equipment nearby your router and mini....MoCA seems like the better option.
Motorola Bonded 2.0 MoCA Adapter for Ethernet over Coax


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

Is there a coax outlet near the router? You could then use a Motorola MM1000 as noted above, to bridge traffic from the router on to the coax. The MM1000 connects via coax to your plant, and an ethernet cable connects the MM1000 to the router. The Bolt is then set to use MoCa, joining a network (not creating). As the Mini can't create a network, it will simply join in.

You won't need to run wifi on the Bolt from that point, and in fact, you can use the Bolt's ethernet port as a bridge, to cable other devices that would benefit from a fast wired connection, rather than using WiFi.

Running an OTA antenna with MoCA on the same coax plant is not an issue, as MoCA and OTA signals use different frequencies, but travel on the same cable. You -will- need to add a POE filter, typically _installing it on the input side of the first splitter_ _where the _down-_lead from the antenna splits _off to the other drop locations. A suitable filter is included in the box with the MM1000. The filter blocks MoCA frequencies from broadcasting out of your antenna; while at the same time the reflectance created strengthens the MoCA signal.


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## kendq (Jan 12, 2005)

Its my daughter house but the internet cable comes just inside the corner of the house thru the wall right to the router. about 20 ft (from where the internet cable enters the house) away is a junction box on the outside of the house with a spliter in it and a coaxial cable for each room( I think it was wired when they built the house). I have the antenna feeding into the spliter. and yes I already installed moca filter. I think I will have to figure how to cat5 from the router to a coax output

Thanks for all your help and making me aware of the MM1000, I may end up needing it

kendq


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

Is the internet service coming over coaxial cable, or is it an ethernet connection to the router?

If you can pull a coax cable from the junction box into the room where the router resides, you're almost home. (Conversely, if you can run an ethernet cable from the router to a coax jack location- or to the Bolt itself, that would work as well). If any of the cables from the junction box are running down through the wall into a crawlspace or basement, it may not be all that difficult to fish a new cable run along side of an existing cable into the crawlspace, and then pull it to a location under the room where the router is located.

With the right tools, coax is easier to much easier to terminate than cat5e or cat6.


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## kendq (Jan 12, 2005)

the internet has its own cable , they drilled a hole thru the kitchen wall and the router is right there in the corner on its own cable. my concern is running moca , OTA, and internet on the same cable, I remember in my search seeing how that wont work because the OTA and internet can use the same freq.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kendq said:


> the internet has its own cable , they drilled a hole thru the kitchen wall and the router is right there in the corner on its own cable. my concern is running moca , OTA, and internet on the same cable, I remember in my search seeing how that wont work because the OTA and internet can use the same freq.


Maybe your cable modem can show you the frequencies it is using? Try 192.168.100.1 in your browser. It might show the status page.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kendq said:


> my concern is running moca , OTA, and internet on the same cable, I remember in my search seeing how that wont work because the OTA and internet can use the same freq.


That's an entirely appropriate concern. MoCA can coexist with either OTA or cable, but OTA and cable use overlapping frequencies and so cannot share coax.



kendq said:


> the internet has its own cable , they drilled a hole thru the kitchen wall and the router is right there in the corner on its own cable.


Is there any other coax outlet, as well, at or very near that location, ideally one that is or can be connected to the shared RG6 coax running through the house?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

kendq said:


> the internet has its own cable , they drilled a hole thru the kitchen wall and the router is right there in the corner on its own cable. my concern is running moca , OTA, and internet on the same cable, I remember in my search seeing how that wont work because the OTA and internet can use the same freq.


One task will be to get a MoCA adapter connected to the OTA/house coax network but you will need to get Ethernet from the router/gateway to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port. 
You will need a MoCA filter or a diplexer to prevent your MoCA frequencies from going back up to the antenna. You could then just connect the Bolt via MoCA, no need to run Ethernet to it in this situation.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kendq said:


> what I did not realize is if the Bolt hooks up on wifi you cannot activate moca unless connected to Ethernet


Yeah, that's a bit of a bummer; TiVo (in the person of Ira Bahr) mentioned many moons ago that their engineers were looking into allowing MoCA/wireless bridging (see here), but nothing ever came of it. Regardless, its absence is not a showstopper, even if a full MoCA setup for you is determined as not possible.

It sounds like you're well versed in the possible options, and I'm inferring that MoCA connectivity is certainly possible via the shared OTA-connected coax between the BOLT and Mini locations. So now the question is *whether this shared coax plant extends to the router location* in the kitchen (separate from the dedicated cable coax run to the modem).

*If it does*, then a MoCA adapter at the router location would be used to bridge between the router LAN and the "antenna" coax plant, effectively the MoCA access point, establishing your MoCA network;

Alternatively, do you have Ethernet access extended to any other location in the house besides the immediate vicinity of the router? If so, the same MoCA adapter approach would apply, assuming the location also has a coax outlet connecting to the shared coax plant.

*If it does NOT*, then you'd be looking to use either Powerline or Wi-Fi to bridge a connection between the router and the BOLT, connecting the BOLT via Ethernet (either directly to the Powerline/Wi-Fi bridging adapter or via a network switch), thereby allowing use of the BOLT's built-in MoCA bridge to establish the MoCA network. As you suggested, the heavy lifting between the BOLT and Mini(s) will occur over the wired MoCA segment, while the Powerline/wireless segment will need to support less demanding, more resilient operations (Internet streaming, TiVo service connections, TiVoToGo-ish offloads).

Note that if the BOLT location isn't optimal for locating the Powerline/wireless bridging adapter, you could opt for any other location in the house where a coax connection to the shared coax plant is available. The only difference would be that you would need to use a standalone MoCA adapter at this location to establish your MoCA network, rather than the BOLT's built-in bridge. (The BOLT would be configured as a MoCA client.)
Either way...

You'd need a *"PoE" MoCA filter* to keep the MoCA signals from reaching and emanating from the antenna;

You'd want to provide *more details *on exactly how the coax plant interconnects (ditto @fcfc2 above) --- to each wall outlet and device and back to the OTA antenna signal source and through what components (splitters, amps, filters, joiners, ...) -- to be able to evaluate whether there are any speed bumps to a solid MoCA setup, and to suggest the best configuration.

Also critical in planning the final setup is understanding your intent for the OTA antenna signals. As regards the TiVo equipment, only the BOLT needs access to the raw antenna signal; the BOLT will do all TV tuning on behalf of the Mini's and stream this content to the Mini's via their LAN connection.

Do you have other needs for the OTA antenna signal, such as directly feeding the antenna signal to one or more TV's in the house, as an alternative or backup to the TiVo setup, or because you want to be able to have synchronized live TV playback available across multiple TVs?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Maybe your cable modem can show you the frequencies it is using? Try 192.168.100.1 in your browser. It might show the status page.


I'm guessing this is a suggestion to evaluate the current frequencies in use for the cable Internet connection, and that it would be theoretically possible for the cable Internet and OTA antenna signals to share a coax segment if none of the channels/frequencies carrying signals overlapped.

Some of the issues with this approach, aside from the hassle of evaluating the overlaps, include:

the cable company can arbitrarily change the channels in use for the upstream/downstream Internet signal;

most digital cable companies these days still send all their cable TV programming down the coax line, even if a customer isn't subscribed to TV; the TV signals are still present on the cable coax, the customer just needs to subscribe to the service and have a box authorized and able to decrypt the programming.

the cable signals and OTA signals leaking through to each other could be problematic, though the cable company is likely to be quicker to respond than the FCC.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Or, yeah, as you'd already said ...


kendq said:


> I think I will have to figure how to cat5 from the router to a coax output


... make an Ethernet connection available at one of the coax outlets connected to the shared antenna-connected coax plant. (The BOLT can be the MoCA bridge if Ethernet is available at that location; otherwise, a standalone MoCA adapter will do and both the BOLT and Mini will be MoCA clients.)


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> The cable company can arbitrarily change the channels in use for the upstream/downstream Internet signal;
> 
> most digital cable companies these days still send all their cable TV programming down the coax line, even if a customer isn't subscribed to TV; the TV signals are still present on the cable coax, the customer just needs to subscribe to the service and have a box authorized and able to decrypt the programming.
> 
> the cable signals and OTA signals leaking through to each other could be problematic, though the cable company is likely to be quicker to respond than the FCC.


So much to think about, so little brain. Good points.


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## kendq (Jan 12, 2005)

Thanks to all the suggestions, I just talked to my daughter (lives 3 states away) and I think on my next trip I am going to have to run cat5 back out the hole with internet cable , then string along the house under the siding to the 2nd floor and drill a small hole to enter a bedroom near the coax. when I bought this for her I never realized when all you guys said you can't connect a mini via wifi (I do read and have learned from your posts), I kept thinking of the immediate connection not the Bolt to the home network, oh well I am sure I will get there and again thanks for all your help.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

The wireless bridge is still an option, short-term...


krkaufman said:


> *If it does NOT*, then you'd be looking to use either Powerline or Wi-Fi to bridge a connection between the router and the BOLT, connecting the BOLT via Ethernet (either directly to the Powerline/Wi-Fi bridging adapter or via a network switch), thereby allowing use of the BOLT's built-in MoCA bridge to establish the MoCA network. As you suggested, the heavy lifting between the BOLT and Mini(s) will occur over the wired MoCA segment, while the Powerline/wireless segment will need to support less demanding, more resilient operations (Internet streaming, TiVo service connections, TiVoToGo-ish offloads).
> 
> Note that if the BOLT location isn't optimal for locating the Powerline/wireless bridging adapter, you could opt for any other location in the house where a coax connection to the shared coax plant is available. The only difference would be that you would need to use a standalone MoCA adapter at this location to establish your MoCA network, rather than the BOLT's built-in bridge. (The BOLT would be configured as a MoCA client.)



Something similar to the following; just need to acquire the wireless bridge.








​... at least until if/when you can string some Cat5/6.


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## kendq (Jan 12, 2005)

That is also a good temporary option, but I have heard those are a little unreliable and she does like her netflix (although she could use the apps on her smart tv) your drawing was exact and yes i even have the moca filter


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kendq said:


> but I have heard those are a little unreliable


I'll leave it to others (see @JoeKustra) to speak to wireless reliability, since I stick to wired Ethernet or MoCA for my TiVo's, but a number of TCFers report success using wireless even for Mini whole home connectivity ... let alone the less demanding configuration suggested above, where the wireless connection only services Internet streaming apps and TiVo service connections. The more bandwidth-intensive TiVo-to-TiVo traffic would be isolated to the wired MoCA segment.

Conceivably, if the BOLT will remain wireless until your Cat5/6 upgrade, the above suggested configuration could improve the BOLT's connectivity, assuming a wireless bridge with better performance than the BOLT's internal wireless is chosen.* Again, I have to defer to others Re: specific recommendations, such as >these< -- though I'd note that if the suggested devices have been found sufficient for Mini whole home connectivity, then they'd be more than up to the task of servicing just the router/Internet traffic, especially for such a limited number of TiVo boxes even if streaming simultaneously.

---
* Similar to your suggestion to stringing Cat5/6 to a location with a coax outlet, you could also locate the wireless bridge in another room away from the BOLT, if this location has a connection to the shared coax plant but also offers improved wireless throughput. For example:







​p.s. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any single device capable of being both a wireless bridge and MoCA bridge. There are a number of MoCA wireless access points that allow use of MoCA for better wireless coverage, but I don't believe any of those products allow for reconfiguring the wireless function as a bridge rather than an access point.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

kendq said:


> That is also a good temporary option, but I have heard those are a little unreliable and she does like her netflix (although she could use the apps on her smart tv) your drawing was exact and yes i even have the moca filter


I heard my name dropped.  I saw your diagram and have one question to start: what's the model of your router? To achieve 99% reliability I have a very good router. Sadly, my streaming via a Mini has been limited to YouTube which works great after recent changes by TiVo. It is true that using the Mini with real time TV is the hardest, followed by a recording from its host. My house is old and small. I'm spread over two floors and several rooms. My cable modem, router and wired Roamio are in one room. I have two Roamio, three Mini, two computers and other stuff that all runs via wireless bridges. Every morning I watch TV on a Mini in my kitchen. It uses a wireless bridge shared with the smart TV it uses.

So, what's your budget? BTW, is that smart TV using wireless too?


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## snerd (Jun 6, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> I'm not aware of any single device capable of being both a wireless bridge and MoCA bridge.


The WCB3000N brings all three together in one box. Seems to me there is a good chance it would work, and pretty cheap as an experiment.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

snerd said:


> The WCB3000N brings all three together in one box. Seems to me there is a good chance it would work, and pretty cheap as an experiment.


Wireless it does; I'm just not sure it can be configured as a wireless bridge (and mine is 6 hours away).


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## kendq (Jan 12, 2005)

I am not sure of the router (as I say she is also 3 states or 6hours away) but know its a cable company router. with the WCB3000N you still have the issue of hooking that to the internet cable for wan connection but wantint the Moca on the OTA cable for Lan connection and you cant combine the 2 cables (as in the drawing above)


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## kendq (Jan 12, 2005)

If this question is too far of topic I can start a new thread, but are we allowed to watch each others recorded shows? When I go to tivo online and try to watch one of her show it says its not setup . I had her connect via her app and check all the boxes still no luck. anyway we can do that? (vpn ect.) she wants to watch her hometown football games on my box.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

The WCB3000N is a thrifty MoCA adapter and wireless unit, but it is not a wireless bridge. You would need something like the Dlink DAP-1650, which will connect via wireless and give you 4 Ethernet ports. These can be configured as a wireless repeater, media bridge, or if you have Ethernet available as a straight AP. You would probably want to use the "media bridge" aka wireless to Ethernet adapter function. There are other similar devices, these are pretty cheap on Ebay.
d-link dap-1650 | eBay


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kendq said:


> with the WCB3000N you still have the issue of hooking that to the internet cable for wan connection but wantint the Moca on the OTA cable for Lan connection and you cant combine the 2 cables (as in the drawing above)


I'm not sure what you're saying here, as the WCB3000N is just a MoCA adapter (MoCA 1.1 spec) that happens to also have 2 GigE ports (rather than 1) and a built-in wireless access point. It could be employed the same as any other MoCA adapter, though with the wireless access point function enabled or disabled per requirements. The fact that it can be had for $14 via Amazon makes it attractive, especially for older TiVo setups that are all MoCA 1.1 gear.

That said, the WCB3000N would face the same hurdle as your BOLT and any other MoCA adapter, the need to connect to both your router's Ethernet LAN and the shared antenna-connected coax plant.
_
(This post written under the continued belief that the WCB3000N can only be setup as a wireless access point and lacks the functionality to be configured as a wireless bridge.)_


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## kendq (Jan 12, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> I'm not sure what you're saying here, as the WCB3000N is just a MoCA adapter (MoCA 1.1 spec) that happens to also have 2 GigE ports (rather than 1) and a built-in wireless access point. It could be employed the same as any other MoCA adapter, though with the wireless access point function enabled or disabled per requirements. The fact that it can be had for $14 via Amazon makes it attractive, especially for older TiVo setups that are all MoCA 1.1 gear.
> 
> That said, the WCB3000N would face the same hurdle as your BOLT and any other MoCA adapter, the need to connect to both your router's Ethernet LAN and the shared antenna-connected coax plant.
> _
> (This post written under the continued belief that the WCB3000N can only be setup as a wireless access point and lacks the functionality to be configured as a wireless bridge.)_


sorry I did not proof my typing, ment to say you have the issue connecting the WCB3000n to the internet coax which has the isp signal but you need the signal on the local Lan coax that connects the Bolt, mini and antenna. (if you look at the Drawing in post #15), and you cant combine the 2 coax lines. but I do agree that the DAP-1650 mentioned above in media bridge mode) will solve my problem and I am going to give that a try .

thanks again


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kendq said:


> but I do agree that the DAP-1650 mentioned above in media bridge mode) will solve my problem and I am going to give that a try


See the link from post #17 for additional wireless bridge options, as needed:


krkaufman said:


> I have to defer to others Re: specific recommendations, such as >these< ...


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