# How to setup more than one Zinwell 6X8 multiswitch?



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm toying with the idea of getting the HR20-700 HD-DVR but I'll need to put up a new AT9 dish and multiswitches. I currently have two Terk powered 5X8 multiswitches that are cascaded. One switch is mounted in the attic and sends four lines to various receivers throughout the house and the other four lines go to a 2nd identical 5X8 multiswitch in the basement for three HDTivos and one standard DTivo.

I noticed on one of the ebay auctions for the Zinwell WB68 6X8 multiswitch that it is not cascadeable. My question is, what would be the best way to set up two of these switches since I cannot cascade them?

I have seen setups where the outputs from the dish were split and sent to the same inputs on two multiswitches to maximize the number of outputs. Would this be the way to go to set up multiple WB68's or am I limited to a single 6X8 switch? Is there a powered multiswitch alternative to the WB68 or is this the only switch currently available for the AT9 dish?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

There has been some discussion on cascading WB68s. Some have said yes and others no. Because the WB68 gets its power from the receiver, I would suggest that you use the spillter method to feed two WB68s. Make sure the splitters used only pass power on one leg.


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## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

I read somewhere in this forum that Spaun was working on an MPEG-4 compatible, powered 16 output multiswitch. I haven't heard a recent update, though. If they do release one it will be very expensive, like their other products.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Make sure the splitters used only pass power on one leg.


And how exactly does one do that? I've never seen specs on a splitter that indicate it will pass DC on one leg only, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm not exactly sure how that would matter anyway. Once you've got everything set up the LNBs are switched to a single polarity and should stay that way until they receive a different voltage level so I don't see why they would even need to see a switching voltage.

I'm assuming that I could set up a single multiswitch and connect a receiver to it, cycle through the various transponders to set the polarities, and then insert my splitters and the 2nd switch. Am I way off base in my assessment?

The only signal I can see that would need to be passed is the 22kHz switching signal for SAT B and SAT C. I have no idea what the 99 and 103 sat LNBs require in the way of switching controls.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

A J Ricaud said:


> I read somewhere in this forum that Spaun was working on an MPEG-4 compatible, powered 16 output multiswitch. I haven't heard a recent update, though. If they do release one it will be very expensive, like their other products.


They are, and I think they are about to release it real soon..

But I would agree, count on it costing a few C Notes


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## weaknees (May 11, 2001)

It is definitely possible to use multiple 6x8 switches. Using four high-frequency splitters (1 on each of the outputs from the dish) works fine. We have been involved in many very high-end installations in which this has been done without a problem.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks. I figured the splitter setup was about my only option.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> And how exactly does one do that? I've never seen specs on a splitter that indicate it will pass DC on one leg only, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.


 http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SP2HF1


> I'm not exactly sure how that would matter anyway. Once you've got everything set up the LNBs are switched to a single polarity and should stay that way until they receive a different voltage level so I don't see why they would even need to see a switching voltage.


They only need to pass power on one leg is exactly the reason you said above. Imagine two multiswitches producing the 22 kHz tone. If the two tones were out of phase with each other you would have no tone and you would get the wrong satellite.


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## willardcpa (Feb 23, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> They are, and I think they are about to release it real soon.....


Hmmmm, where have I heard that phrase before?


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SP2HF1


Great. Thanks for the link. I've been looking for sources for wideband splitters that didn't cost an arm and a leg.



> Imagine two multiswitches producing the 22 kHz tone. If the two tones were out of phase with each other you would have no tone and you would get the wrong satellite.


The odds of them being exactly 180 degrees out of phase would probably be quite slim, but I get your point. Chances are they'd be out of phase just enough so the LNB would simply not respond to the switching signal.


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## greywolf (Apr 9, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> The odds of them being exactly 180 degrees out of phase would probably be quite slim, but I get your point. Chances are they'd be out of phase just enough so the LNB would simply not respond to the switching signal.


Power passing and tone passing are two different things. All splitters pass the tone through all ports or Sats B and C could not be selected by downstream receivers. Single port power passing has been recommended for powered multiswitches and dual port power passing for passive multiswitches.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

> Power passing and tone passing are two different things. Single port power passing has been recommended for powered multiswitches and dual port power passing for passive multiswitches.


I totally understand about power passing vs. tone passing. Have you got a link that you can point me to so I can substantiate the requirements for power switching (i.e. passive vs. powered/active multiswitch requirements)? The Zinwell 6X8 switch is passive and the previous recommendations I've received indicate I need splitters that will pass power on one leg only, which totally contradicts that statement. Which is correct?

On a similar note, if I do need splitters that will pass power on one leg only can I get a splitter that will pass power on both ports and use a DC blocker, such as the one linked below, on one of the legs?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=180-192

The reason I ask is because I can find good quality wideband splitters at a decent price but they pass power on both ports. The only other splitters I've found so far that will pass power on only one leg are the ones linked above and the Monster Cable wideband splitters, which are ridiculously overpriced, just like all their products. The ones from Solid Signal just look kind of cheezy to me compared to some of the better quality models I've seen. It may just be a case of aesthetics but I'm looking for a warm fuzzy here.

Home Depot has some that look pretty good with quality cast housings similar to the Monster cable models but they pass power on all ports. They're reasonably priced at about $7 each for a 2-way model. Here's a similar model from Zenith at about the same price:

http://www.buyextras.com/zedicaandsas.html


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## greywolf (Apr 9, 2004)

Early on, those running the Zinwell SAM-6802 passive multiswitches in parallel reported good results with all port power passing splitters. The same has held for the WB68. I have come to think the recommendation for single port power passing splitters was made for powered multiswitches was made because all ports weren't needed rather than they would cause problems. After all, running DC power sources in parallel only increases current availability, not voltage levels or current draw.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Sounds reasonable to me. At first I thought I'd have to use six of these splitters for all six inputs to the multiswitch but now I see that I will only need four of them. I found out that the AT9 dish also has a built-in multiswitch in a similar manner as the Phase III dish with only four outputs from the switch. I figured it did but it wasn't apparent from looking at pictures of the dish. The multiswitch ciruit is enclosed in the main central LNB housing for the 99, 101, and 103 LNBs. The two LNBs on the outrigger are for the 110 and 119 sats.

I assumed that all six inputs to the multiswitch were required for the 99 and 103 LNBs. I'm guessing they're reserved for the 75- and 95-degree sats similar to the original Zinwells required for the oddball locals.

The SolidSignal website has an excellent video tutorial about installing and aligning the AT9 dishes and is aimed at professional installers. After viewing the AT9 installation videos I now realize that the AT9 setup requires a much wider bandwidth multiswitch and the proper type of RG6 cable is crucial as are the crimp style connectors. Here's the link to the install videos:

http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp

I highly recommend them to anyone considering a self-installation of the AT9 dish. Although the alignment is much more critical than the phase III dish, the AT9 has several micro-adjustment features built-in to enable you to get the alignment dead on if you follow the tutorial.

I will probably make the investment in an Acutrac22 Pro satellite signal finder as it is the same one used in the AT9 installation videos. I can always resell it on ebay when I'm done with it and get my money back.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

rminsk said:


> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SP2HF1


That splitter is 900 - 2150 MHz. Shouldn't the splitters be rated for 250 - 2150 MHz for compatibility with future satellite signals that use 250-750 Mhz?

I haven't been able to find a one port DC passing splitter that supports 250 - 2150 MHz (or wider). Does anyone know where I can find such a splitter?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> That splitter is 900 - 2150 MHz. Shouldn't the splitters be rated for 250 - 2150 MHz for compatibility with future satellite signals that use 250-750 Mhz?
> 
> I haven't been able to find a one port DC passing splitter that supports 250 - 2150 MHz (or wider). Does anyone know where I can find such a splitter?


Currently I do not think there is a way to use splitters for the Ka band satellites. I'm not too sure what DirecTV is doing for customers that need more than 8 outputs.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The splitters I pointed out at the bottom of post #12 are rated from 5 to 2300 MHz. That sounds like it should meet the requirements needed for the new sats.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

mr.unnatural said:


> The splitters I pointed out at the bottom of post #12 are rated from 5 to 2300 MHz. That sounds like it should meet the requirements needed for the new sats.


Those pass power on both ports. Most of the instructions on using two multiswitches say that you need to use splitters that pass power on only one port, so that only one of the two multiswitches is powering the dish, sending tones, or whatever.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

DLiquid said:


> Those pass power on both ports. Most of the instructions on using two multiswitches say that you need to use splitters that pass power on only one port, so that only one of the two multiswitches is powering the dish, sending tones, or whatever.


That is for active/powered switches with the Zinwells being passive... it is more recommended.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> That is for active/powered switches with the Zinwells being passive... it is more recommended.


Understood. So is there any way to follow that recommendation with the splitters currently available?


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Found this but it is a 25 pack:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SS6405


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

I think I finally found one. What do you guys think of this Aska splitter? Is it good enough quality to use with the two WB68 install?

Aska TG2G-2DC
5-2150 MHz Wideband Splitter
One port power passive

http://www.multicominc.com/2003/comparison/splitters/satellite/tg2g2_2dc_2ds%20thru%20tv2g8.pdf

http://www.multicominc.com/Merchant...Product_Code=TG2G-2DC&Category_Code=LBND_PLTR


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## pbubel (Jan 31, 2002)

I'll need to power at least 3 multiswitches so I was thinking about getting the 4 port model of the spliter you mentioned above. Anythoughts?

http://www.multicominc.com/Merchant...Product_Code=TG2G-4DC&Category_Code=LBND_PLTR


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

For anyone interested, here are a couple more I'm considering. Both are Eagle Aspen splitters that support 5 - 2300 MHz. I confirmed this frequency range with Eagle Aspen support.

The first is an Eagle Aspen P-6002-P, which is one port passive (linked earlier in thread):
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SP2HF1

The second is an Eagle Aspen P-6102-AP, which is all port passive:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SP2HFA

The thing is, the solidsignal pages for these things have the wrong product pictures, descriptions, and in the case of the P-6002-P, even the wrong product number, so it would kind of be a gamble to order these there. I've e-mailed solidsignal to ask about this but they haven't responded.

I was able to get two new Zinwell WB68 multiswitches yesterday on eBay for $21/each shipped. Now that is a bargain.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

I'm still confused. Should I use one port DC passing splitters or all port DC passing splitters?


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## Vin (Jun 13, 2003)

DLiquid said:


> I'm still confused. Should I use one port DC passing splitters or all port DC passing splitters?


Power passing on both ports is recommended with the WB68.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Vin said:


> Power passing on both ports is recommended with the WB68.


Okay got it, thanks. I was confused by Earl's post because at first I thought he meant the opposite of that, but now I see I probably misinterpreted it.


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## alant40 (Oct 23, 2004)

DLiquid said:


> I'm still confused. Should I use one port DC passing splitters or all port DC passing splitters?


I just had my 5 LNB dish installed today. I have 2 Zinwell multi switches. My splitters are all passive on all ports and all my receivers on the second switch crap out with searching for sat messages. The tech told me to use one port passive splitters. For what it's worth, I'll take the advice and report back...


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## DVRaholic (Mar 28, 2004)

I have 2 Zinwell WB68's, 4 Splitters with Power passing on both ports and it works perfect. I have it hooked to 9 boxes (4 DVRS) with no problems at all.

DiD you make sure that all inputs are off the same splitters, 
Example: If you split the first one to input 1, that same splitter must go to imput 1 on the second multiswitch, and so on with 2,3, and 4


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## greywolf (Apr 9, 2004)

If anybody has power delivery problems, http://www.sonorastore.com/510.html can be used to insert power. There is a pdf link to a wiring diagram. Remove the device from the diagram if you don't need it. Don't use the splitters there though. At least 2300MHz at the top is needed.


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## dmurphy (Jan 17, 2002)

These are the splitters I bought.

I have a Zinwell 6x8 and an Eagle Aspen 6x8 switch, and when the DTV installer put them in, he used two-port-power-passing splitters.

I was getting random "Searching for satellite" messages, especially on my HR10-250 receiver.

After I replaced them with the splitters above, the SfS messages went away. They're also wideband so I should be set for an AT9 dish anytime.


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## alant40 (Oct 23, 2004)

DVRaholic said:


> I have 2 Zinwell WB68's, 4 Splitters with Power passing on both ports and it works perfect. I have it hooked to 9 boxes (4 DVRS) with no problems at all.
> 
> DiD you make sure that all inputs are off the same splitters,
> Example: If you split the first one to input 1, that same splitter must go to imput 1 on the second multiswitch, and so on with 2,3, and 4


Well I went out and purchased what I assumed I needed to make this work. Power pass on one port. Then I come home to read your post. I follow your lead and all is well. And that's that... Thanks...


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

dmurphy said:


> These are the splitters I bought.


I saw those at Fry's Electronics under the brand "Great Quality," BS-32. They were selling them for $4/each I think.

I called solidsignal.com and apparently the splitters I linked earlier in the thread are not Eagle Aspen, even though Solid Signal is using the Eagle Aspen part numbers on their web pages. It seems like with Solid Signal you are taking a gamble on what you actually get.

I ended up buying some all port passing wideband splitters from Orchard Supply Hardware for $8/each. They had similar ones at Home Depot that were single port passing, but based on recommendations here I _passed_ on those.

Overall this thread is still giving conflicting advice regarding single port DC passing vs. all port DC passing. I guess I'll just have to try it once my Zinwell WB68s arrive.


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## alant40 (Oct 23, 2004)

DLiquid said:


> Overall this thread is still giving conflicting advice regarding single port DC passing vs. all port DC passing. I guess I'll just have to try it once my Zinwell WB68s arrive.


As I stated in my post, the all pass is working fine on my end but you have to follow what DVR says to the letter. No problems here after 2 days of watching. Hope this helps...


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