# Tivo Series 3 multi-cablecard question



## paladin732 (Nov 4, 2002)

Has the software for the Series 3 box been updated to allow M-cablecards yet?


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

M-Cards are supported, the trick you still need 2 of them. From my understanding it is hardware limitation itself, and cannot be unlocked with software. Tivo HD uses different hardware for tuners and cable-card readers altogether.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

lqaddict said:


> M-Cards are supported, the trick you still need 2 of them. From my understanding it is hardware limitation itself, and cannot be unlocked with software. Tivo HD uses different hardware for tuners and cable-card readers altogether.


That isn't true according to the back of my Series 3...

Slot one says "Single or Multistream", slot 2 says multistream only.


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## rvsj (Dec 20, 2007)

Actually according to your picture slot 2 says Single Stream Only.
Are you sure that is an S3 and not an HD? 
Both of my S3s say First Cablecard and Second Cablecard on the 1st and 2nd slots.
I have a pair of Single Stream cards in one unit and a pair of Multistream cards in the other unit.


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

It is S3 pictured, HD has the card slots in the front.
As for the OP question:
http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=bb83ae57-ea46-4162-ab65-4bfde6a851e4
S3 supports M-Cards in single stream mode only, that's why you need of them if you want to use both tuners for digital cable programming. 
From the URL:
The DVR must also be running software version 8.0.1c or later. (S-Cards are supported in all software versions.)


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Also, TiVo has said several times that the S3 was designed to support a single M-Card eventually.

I suspect the 'new' hardware problem is something they didn't find until later, that they didn't anticipate.


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## Ipaqjoe (Mar 4, 2002)

"We are exploring support of M-Cards in multi-stream mode for the Series3 HD DVR"

Please explore faster TIVO my cable company is gouging me $20/month for 4 cable cards! It would be awesome to get rid of the 2nd card in each Tivo S3.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

I am exploring the possibility of a romantic relationship with Keri from Mythbusters. I suspect the likelihood of that happening is probably close to the likelihood of my S3 using a single M card in the future.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for true M-card support for the S3. I'm still waiting for them to deliver on the promised SDV solution, a problem that's much more important and affects both S3 and THD owners.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

RonDawg said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for true M-card support for the S3. I'm still waiting for them to deliver on the promised SDV solution, a problem that's much more important and affects both S3 and THD owners.


When did TiVo promise a SDV solution?


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> When did TiVo promise a SDV solution?


Awhile ago


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## bobrt6676 (Dec 31, 2007)

pkscout said:


> Awhile ago


SDV solution (dongle) will be available first half of 2008 according to SDV FAQ thread.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

They have promised it...but for second quarter 2008

Also, on my Tivo HD - I use an M-Card. It does seem to have 2-way communication to the headend. It has a few extra screens that show it, although it is not configured, it does show it is capable.

Under setting, cablecard decoders, select the m-card, then menu

The cool menu is 'Network Setup' and 'Interactive Setup'. I think the Interactive one will allow comm back using a network connection, which is about how the SDV dongle would work. The Network one alludes to 'two-way comm established'

I've enclosed both here


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## Michael1025 (Nov 26, 2006)

I had a weird experience regarding Multistream cable cards and an S3.

I had two single-stream cards, the tech came out and replaced them with a single multistream. We paired the cable card, and skipped guided setup. Both tuners worked perfectly off of one card. I could record on both tuners, etc. If you went to diagnostics, it showed both tuners running off of the same card.

Once we re-ran guided setup, though, it lost the second tuner. We had to add the second card back in to get it back. This makes me think that it's a software, not a hardware limitation.


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## Joybob (Oct 2, 2007)

Ipaqjoe said:


> "We are exploring support of M-Cards in multi-stream mode for the Series3 HD DVR"
> 
> Please explore faster TIVO my cable company is gouging me $20/month for 4 cable cards! It would be awesome to get rid of the 2nd card in each Tivo S3.


I'm paying $30 dollars for 1 Mcard.


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## Brainiac 5 (Aug 25, 2003)

lqaddict said:


> M-Cards are supported, the trick you still need 2 of them. From my understanding it is hardware limitation itself, and cannot be unlocked with software.


Do we actually know this? Last I heard they were still in the process of determining the feasibility of it. I have several S3s, so I'd be very interested to hear if there's concrete information that this will never be possible.


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

Brainiac 5 said:


> Do we actually know this? Last I heard they were still in the process of determining the feasibility of it. I have several S3s, so I'd be very interested to hear if there's concrete information that this will never be possible.


http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=bb83ae57-ea46-4162-ab65-4bfde6a851e4


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## Brainiac 5 (Aug 25, 2003)

lqaddict said:


> http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=bb83ae57-ea46-4162-ab65-4bfde6a851e4


But that page doesn't say there is any known hardware limitation. In fact, it says that multi-stream mode (allowing the use of just one card) is "currently" not supported on the S3, and has the bit that another poster quoted stating that "We are exploring support of M-Cards in multi-stream mode for the Series3 HD DVR."


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

I think if it was just a matter of writing a driver for the tuners in S3, it would've been already done given the time the unit has been in production. I certainly, do not know the reasoning why there is no support for M-Cards in multi-stream mode in S3 yet, but I think it is a hardware ceiling that Tivo hit, and that probably one of the reason the Tivo HD is built around completely different hardware for tuners and CC readers.


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## lqaddict (Apr 5, 2005)

I personally think the next Tivo product will be Series 3E (Enhanced) or something along these lines - maybe Series 4, but I doubt it - that will address SDV and M-Card support in multi-stream mode. My prediction - Q3-Q4 this year. 
Who is with me?


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## Brainiac 5 (Aug 25, 2003)

lqaddict said:


> I think if it was just a matter of writing a driver for the tuners in S3, it would've been already done given the time the unit has been in production.


I agree, I was just wondering if there had been any definitive information to confirm this. Sometimes it's hard to be sure if TiVo isn't going to do something, or if they're doing it, but very slowly.


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## Joybob (Oct 2, 2007)

lqaddict said:


> I think if it was just a matter of writing a driver for the tuners in S3, it would've been already done given the time the unit has been in production. I certainly, do not know the reasoning why there is no support for M-Cards in multi-stream mode in S3 yet, but I think it is a hardware ceiling that Tivo hit, and that probably one of the reason the Tivo HD is built around completely different hardware for tuners and CC readers.


Maybe something to do with CableLabs support? Would they have to get the S3 re-certified if they modified it?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Joybob said:


> Maybe something to do with CableLabs support? Would they have to get the S3 re-certified if they modified it?


I think that's it. I found this in megazone's S3 FAQ:


> Can I use one Mutli-Stream CableCARD, or M-Card?
> 
> Currently the TiVo HD supports M-Card, but the Series3 does not yet support it. While the Series3 Viewers Guide has the following on page 102: Note: A single multi-stream CableCARD decoder installed in the bottom slot on the back of the DVR enables dual tuner functionality., this is incorrect! I spoke with Bob Poniatowski (aka TiVoPony) of TiVo by phone on Thursday, September 21st, 2006 and he clarified that. He also later made a post at TiVoCommunity.com which contained the following:
> 
> ...


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## Joybob (Oct 2, 2007)

windracer said:


> I think that's it. I found this in megazone's S3 FAQ:


That was in 2006?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Yes. Here's the original post:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4402702&&#post4402702


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

One might assume that there is now a certification process, as the Tivo HD seems to work.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Michael1025 said:


> I had a weird experience regarding Multistream cable cards and an S3.
> 
> I had two single-stream cards, the tech came out and replaced them with a single multistream. We paired the cable card, and skipped guided setup. Both tuners worked perfectly off of one card. I could record on both tuners, etc. If you went to diagnostics, it showed both tuners running off of the same card.
> 
> Once we re-ran guided setup, though, it lost the second tuner. We had to add the second card back in to get it back. This makes me think that it's a software, not a hardware limitation.


Did you happen to change tuner1 and tuner2 to encrypted channels? We know TiVo can use a single CableCARD to handle the channel maps for 2 unencrypted channels (assuming the channel map includes those channels), however this gets reset on guided setup.


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## Ipaqjoe (Mar 4, 2002)

Joybob said:


> I'm paying $30 dollars for 1 Mcard.


Wow! 
I guess you win... That has to be the highest rate out there


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## bombshell (Jul 27, 2006)

Michael1025 said:


> I had a weird experience regarding Multistream cable cards and an S3.
> 
> I had two single-stream cards, the tech came out and replaced them with a single multistream. We paired the cable card, and skipped guided setup. Both tuners worked perfectly off of one card. I could record on both tuners, etc. If you went to diagnostics, it showed both tuners running off of the same card.
> 
> Once we re-ran guided setup, though, it lost the second tuner. We had to add the second card back in to get it back. This makes me think that it's a software, not a hardware limitation.


I had the exact same thing happen to me.

On 22 Jan 08, I was setting up two brand new Series 3 TiVos, side by side.

I had trusted the "Messages & Settings -- Troubleshooting -- CableCARD -- #7" instruction that "to watch/record 2 channels at a time you need...one Multi-Stream CableCARD decoder....Upgrade to a Multi-Stream decoder." So my Montgomery, Alabama, Charter Communications technician put in one Motorola M-card per box. He contacted central office to load the box data and "hit" the cards.

And it worked!!

I knew that the Guided Setup would take another 30 minutes but I wanted to test the systems while the cable guy was still there. I manually entered a HD-1080 channel (channel 780) and started recording. Then I entered another HD-1080 channel (channel 783) -- the box switched over to its second tuner, and it started recording that as well. I still have the test recordings to prove the simultaneous recording of two HD channels on a Series 3 box with one M-card.
It worked exactly the same on the second box.

The cable guy left, and then I ran the Guided Setup. I subsequently discovered that my TiVo disabled its second tuner; effectively only recognizing the M-card as a Single-Stream card.
The same for both boxes.

I called TiVo support to ask how I could get my dual tuner functionality back with the single M-card. The representative kept reading the same notecard to me -- "The Series 3 TiVo does not support multi-stream functionality. You will need to install a second CableCARD to use both tuners." Despite me restating that my M-card had worked with both tuners (initially), the representative kept up his refrain. He told me "It shouldn't work. It might have been an anomaly. (Refrain)" I explained to him, again, that it happened exactly the same on two Series 3 boxes, sitting side-by-side. (Refrain)

Then I asked him why TiVo states that the Series 3 dual tuner will work with one M-card. He said that TiVo does not make that claim. Then I read him verbatim the "Troubleshooting" instruction cited earlier in this post that I had trusted. He went back to his Refrain. I realized he could not provide any real help. 
I asked the representative to have "management" be informed about the erroneous "Troubleshooting" instruction; with the recommendation that an update be sent out to re-program the TiVo boxes to not provide bad guidance. He said okay. I asked to have an email sent back to my email address on record about what would be done to correct the matter. He said okay.

I'm not sure if I'll get an email; but if I do, it'll probably be the same Refrain that doesn't really answer my questions.

I'll see if I can get Charter Communications to "hit" the cards again and perhaps the Series 3 will re-recognize the Multi-Stream capability (Dreaded $$ service call). Otherwise, I'm sure I'll be resigned to having Charter Communications install another Single-Stream card in each box (Dreaded $$ service call).

Don't get me wrong, I love TiVo; but I'm perplexed why TiVo would advertise/suggest a capability that doesn't exist for its high-end Series 3.


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## Ipaqjoe (Mar 4, 2002)

Bombshell,

Thanks for the post.
On the bright side at least we see it is "technically" possible, I guess we just have to wait and see why Tivo is holding back on this.

Tivo, care to shed some light  ???


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## DrWho453 (Jul 16, 2005)

bombshell said:


> I had the exact same thing happen to me.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love TiVo; but I'm perplexed why TiVo would advertise/suggest a capability that doesn't exist for its high-end Series 3.


The Tivo Series 3 originally was supposed to work with 1 M card or 2 S cards. However the M card technology was still being worked out when the S3 came out. Based on the original specs, the M card would have worked with the S3, however the specs were changed after the S3 had gone into production so now the M card will not work as just a single card on the S3. You can use two M cards. I believe Tivo at one point was going to correct the issue but I don't know if they still plan on fixing this issue or if the issue can be fixed. A lot of us would be happy if they would fix the problem so we could just have one card instead of two cards.

If you did get the card to work on two tuners, then maybe there is something tivo could do to fix the issue. Guess we will have to see what the future holds. You can use one M card on the tivo HD unit.


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## Klomax (Jan 3, 2008)

If you don't rerun the guided setup the dual tuner will work with one M-Card,but you will not get any premium channels IE HBO ect. The same thing happened to me and I thought it was working, but I could not record HBO and watch another HBO at the same time... I just got a black screen. Not to mention none of the program information was coming up on my guide screen. You can hope ... but the only solution is two M cards.


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## gm0ney16 (Mar 9, 2008)

Michael1025 said:


> I had a weird experience regarding Multistream cable cards and an S3.
> 
> I had two single-stream cards, the tech came out and replaced them with a single multistream. We paired the cable card, and skipped guided setup. Both tuners worked perfectly off of one card. I could record on both tuners, etc. If you went to diagnostics, it showed both tuners running off of the same card.
> 
> Once we re-ran guided setup, though, it lost the second tuner. We had to add the second card back in to get it back. This makes me think that it's a software, not a hardware limitation.


The exact same thing happened to me this afternoon. The tech person installed one M-card and I was able to record and watch two channels at once. Once he left, I re-ran the guided setup and it said that I only had one cable card installed and that I wouldn't be able to use dual-tuner capabilities. After running the setup, I can only watch/record one channel at a time now. Does anyone know if this situation has been resolved and there is something I can do myself or am I really going to have to have Cablevision come out here again to fix the issue? Thanks for your help.


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## steelio (Jul 12, 2002)

Yeah I had an S-card and an M-card. I had Cox come out and set me up with phones and fix my cable cards because they were not getting a very good signal. They said shoot all you should need is 1 m-card. I tried it and it worked! I didnt think it would but thought they got it fixed. and then poof it stopped working right.
Called Cox up and said ok need another card. They said ok sure no problem that is going to be $50 to install. needless to say I have 1 card now. Going to call again when someone can waive the $50 install charge.


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