# No marketing?



## jonphil (Aug 7, 2002)

Snipit from the digital spy review of Tivo

"The firm also declined to launch a major marketing push for the service, partially because the TiVo system requires more explanation to customers than traditional electronic programme guides (EPGs)."

No, Virgin need to market this box and explain why it's different to the SkyHD box.

Please Virgin, DON'T follow Sky's example of non marketing for Tivo as you have doomed it from the start as you can't rely on word of mouth alone.
I have been telling people about Tivo and pointing them to the link but most people just don't have the time / can't be bothered to actually look.

The SkyHD+ box sells because Sky are forever running adverts for it wherever they can.

Full review is here http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/news/a301229/virgins-tivo-platform-the-future-of-tv.html

Sounds like the No marketing is refering to at launch as it then later says they are going to do agressive marketing, but they already claim people won't understand it? oh well long as they don't expect Tivo to just keep selling itself too much


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## melmatic (Nov 24, 2009)

The marketing push will begin later in the year once it's available to all customers not just those that registered their interest or are prepared to take the top XL tier. Like the Sky 1TB box, this will not shift in large numbers no matter how much money they throw at it. That will not happen until later in the year when they replace V+ with a new lower cost, entry level TiVo DVR and upgrade the non-DVR V HD box with the TiVo UI. Failing is not an option this time round, TiVo will over time replace all Virgin DVR and non-DVR set tops (currently 5 million including multi-room).

Virgin Media Analyst and Investors Day (New York)

Dec 03, 2010

Neil Berkett - Virgin Media Inc. - CEO

What distinguishes our rollout of TiVo from anybody else's deployment of TiVo to-date is we structured the agreement with TiVo and we planned the thing from the very, very beginning as being the mass-market deployment of a new interface for us.

So, we have a clear plan to make this the interface of every single Virgin Media home. So, this will be the way you see TV in Virgin Media. So, in all of our installations for about the last six to eight months, every single standard high-definition box, if that makes sense, just a vanilla [non-DVR] high-definition box we've put in, can run TiVo.

So, the arrangement that we have with TiVo, where we wholesale Virgin Media TiVo, we wholesale TiVo exclusively in the UK. It cannot be retailed in the UK, and we will market it almost as TiVo inside -- like Intel inside.

The level of interest and press we had on the launch on Wednesday, I think, is unparalleled with the launch of its size and scale and type in the UK. It is generating a huge amount of interest. It is a unique opportunity; however, for Virgin to completely leave behind any legacy it had historically of being second in respect to video, and therefore, we will pace the roll out of TiVo. We will not rush it.

We will ensure it is an absolutely amazing customer experience and; therefore, we do not expect to see significant volumes in the first half of 2011. In the second half of 2011 and beyond, we will start to open the tap and start to use it as a major weapon that it can be.


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## Tavis75 (Jan 27, 2011)

The lack of marketing does seem to make sense, right now there's a TiVo fanbase who are clamouring for the new box (as this forum shows quite well!), who don't need it advertised. Virgin can get a number of boxes out there, get staff up to speed, installers trained etc. and actually have enough resources to meet demand without people having to wait months for an install.

Then in the second half of the year when they ramp things up, their infrastructure is up to speed and when people start asking what this TiVo thing is they'll probably know someone who has one and will be quite willing to tell them how great it is and maybe even give them a demo!

I've been banging on about Virgin's TiVo box on Facebook since they first announced it was coming!


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## jonphil (Aug 7, 2002)

I have heard rumor that demo units are starting to appear in Virgin shops, so maybe if people ask about TV they will automatically be shown the Tivo option


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## okonski_uk (Dec 28, 2000)

That would make the most sense - followed by V+ when they faint at the price of TiVo...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

To which the response would be that this roughly the same price that the V+ was when it was first launched


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## hokkers999 (Jan 5, 2006)

Tavis75 said:


> The lack of marketing does seem to make sense, right now there's a TiVo fanbase who are clamouring for the new box (as this forum shows quite well!), who don't need it advertised. Virgin can get a number of boxes out there, get staff up to speed, installers trained etc. and actually have enough resources to meet demand without people having to wait months for an install.
> 
> Then in the second half of the year when they ramp things up, their infrastructure is up to speed and when people start asking what this TiVo thing is they'll probably know someone who has one and will be quite willing to tell them how great it is and maybe even give them a demo!
> 
> I've been banging on about Virgin's TiVo box on Facebook since they first announced it was coming!


If the 20,000 number is correct that's only about 0.6% of vm customers, or to invert it

99.4% of the customers couldn't give a toss!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

No. 99.4&#37; simpy don't know about it; yet.


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## DamienB (Feb 15, 2002)

So basically **** the wallets of people who actually *want* a Tivo, give them beta test models, then reduce the price once the **** victims have done all their beta testing for them, and roll Tivo out to the rest of the customer base.

I guess we're living without Tivo at all for a few months then.


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## M_at (Dec 10, 2000)

DamienB said:


> So basically **** the wallets of people who actually *want* a Tivo, give them beta test models, then reduce the price once the **** victims have done all their beta testing for them, and roll Tivo out to the rest of the customer base.
> 
> I guess we're living without Tivo at all for a few months then.


That's pretty inflammatory language.

**** is the taking of something without consent - you can say no to TiVo and Virgin are not going to come to your house, smash your front door in, kick you to the ground whilst they install the box then leave and take a direct debit for £200.

Lets get some perspective - services and products get cheaper with economies of scale.


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## DamienB (Feb 15, 2002)

M_at said:


> That's pretty inflammatory language.


You do realise this is the internet, right? Sheesh.


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## M_at (Dec 10, 2000)

The Internet isn't anything special anymore - it's the day to day communication medium for a majority of people.

It's still inflammatory - it doesn't become less os because you typed it out.


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## DamienB (Feb 15, 2002)

M_at said:


> The Internet isn't anything special anymore - it's the day to day communication medium for a majority of people.


Quoted for posterity. You have to laugh.

Though clearly you don't.


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## M_at (Dec 10, 2000)

M_at said:


> The Internet isn't anything special anymore - it's the day to day communication medium for a majority of people.
> 
> It's still inflammatory - it doesn't become less os because you typed it out.


If you're going to quote me then quote me in full. Don't just paraphrase me.

I'm sorry I don't find **** funny - I'll try and lower my sense of humour into the gutter with yours.

Go on - quote that too.


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## DamienB (Feb 15, 2002)

Suggest you look up the definition of "paraphrase". Then invest in a sense of humour.


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

DamienB said:


> So basically **** the wallets of people who actually *want* a Tivo, give them beta test models, then reduce the price once the **** victims have done all their beta testing for them, and roll Tivo out to the rest of the customer base.


Standard practice for anything in the technology line ... early adopters are prepared to pay a premium to get it early while over time price reduces to where the main market is. Every so often I upgrade the gfx card in my PC - there's no way I'd pay £250-£300 for the latest top-of-the-range model - but I know from PC forums there are people desperate to get the latest and greatest when it comes out. Similarily new PC/PS3/Xbox games come out at £40-50 and people will pay that to play the game as its launched ... others won't as they expect the price to drop (normally to £17.99) a few months later.



> I guess we're living without Tivo at all for a few months then.


Well, no-ones forcing you to have one.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

DamienB said:


> So basically **** the wallets of people who actually *want* a Tivo, *give them beta test models*...


We're beta testers now? Erm... no. That was six months ago and internal to VM.


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## big_dirk (Feb 17, 2006)

M_at said:


> If you're going to quote me then quote me in full. Don't just paraphrase me.
> 
> I'm sorry I don't find **** funny - I'll try and lower my sense of humour into the gutter with yours.
> 
> Go on - quote that too.


for what it's worth, I agree with you. **** shouldn't be taken as lightly as DamienB does.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

DamienB said:


> You do realise this is the internet, right? Sheesh.


I've reported your post for "Harsh Language".

You can do that sort of thing on the internet, you know.

Why you feel the need to bring in such an ugly term into a discussion about something as dull as marketing is beyond me.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

What is it with people - wandering off topic and bickering.

Nothing for years and then loads all at once!


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## jonphil (Aug 7, 2002)

ozsat said:


> What is it with people - wandering off topic and bickering.
> 
> Nothing for years and then loads all at once!


+1


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Going to see a lot of new people now, I'm sure the atmosphere here is bound to change.


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## abuelbanat (Jan 8, 2011)

jonphil said:


> I have heard rumor that demo units are starting to appear in Virgin shops, so maybe if people ask about TV they will automatically be shown the Tivo option


I passed the Glasgow store today so went in with the kids. Tivo unit sat underneath a mahooosive telly.

VM - "Can I help you sir"

Me - "Yeah - TiVo, can I have a demonstration?"

VM - "Eh - that's not connected to anything sir - to be honest it's not available yet - around April we think"

Me - "Oh...right, mine's is getting installed next week."

VM - blank look "oh is someone else offering it other than us at Vm?"

Me - "No, existing TiVo users were offered a special advance deal, if you have an original S1 TiVo"

VM - "But isn't it a new thing.....?"

My 7 yr old daughter - "C'mon dad, that man doesn't even know what TiVo is"

He didn't have a clue.


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## jonphil (Aug 7, 2002)

Sounds like someone needs to go on the training course! Reminds me of when I first brought my S1 when the boxes were gathering dust on the shelves as nobody in Dixons actually knew what it did.
Back to the demo units, does seem a bit pointless to have them and not even up and running. They could at least be demoing them but say not available yet.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

abuelbanat said:


> I passed the Glasgow store today so went in with the kids. Tivo unit sat underneath a mahooosive telly.
> 
> VM - "Can I help you sir"
> 
> ...


Yes, and?

Sorry but I think you're being a little (or even a lot) unfair.

1. Not everyone has heard of Tivo.
2. They will have had it delivered only just this last week so it might not have actually been installed yet.
3. As a consequence of 2 they may not yet have been trained on the unit.

I'll give you the point about "someone else offering", though


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## abuelbanat (Jan 8, 2011)

cwaring said:


> Yes, and?
> 
> Sorry but I think you're being a little (or even a lot) unfair.
> 
> ...


It not a little (or a lot) unfair to point out the flaw in their marketing strategy. They have a shop in the busiest shopping street in Scotland. They have a box proudly on display directly below a giant TV ergo it's reasonable to assume they could demonstrate or at least have a discussion with me regarding it.

Imagine I was in the market for new TV services. If the SKY shop was next door I'm certain that the guy would perhaps have been able to demonstrate his wares. If they're not in a position to discuss it or demonstrate it I'd argue that they might do more harm than good by displaying it and being uninformed of what the thing actually is.

"Is that the new Ford Focus model I see you've got out there in the forecourt?"

"Yes sir, but no one has the keys for it and it'll be a few months before I can let you see inside it"


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

My personal experience is any shop selling or displaying hi-tech stuff is that most of the staff have less knowledge about the product than most of those showing a particular interest in it.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I used to enjoy eavesdropping Dixons order takers (you can't call them salesmen) when they were talking to a potential TiVo customer - then stepping in when they (always) got it wrong.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

I was in Comet once and overheard a sales droid tell someone that they WOULDNT get stereo sound from their Satellite Receiver if they connected it to the TV with a SCART lead because Satellite wasnt broadcast in NICAM


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> I used to enjoy eavesdropping Dixons order takers (you can't call them salesmen) when they were talking to a potential TiVo customer - then stepping in when they (always) got it wrong.


The ones that used to give away free VHS tapes with the Tivo? 

DSG store salesman baiting is practically a sport around here, but I must be getting old.. last time I went into Comet I merely looked at stuff


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

abuelbanat said:


> It not a little (or a lot) unfair to point out the flaw in their marketing strategy. They have a shop in the busiest shopping street in Scotland. They have a box proudly on display directly below a giant TV ergo it's reasonable to assume they could demonstrate or at least have a discussion with me regarding it.


And I'm sure they will; eventually, when they have been trained on the item. Rememeber, they've only had them in-store barely a week.

I would, of course, agree that maybe they should have had at least one person 'trained' by now. I mean, they've had the things working for at least six months!



> Imagine I was in the market for new TV services. If the SKY shop was next door I'm certain that the guy would perhaps have been able to demonstrate his wares,


Of course, you can assume all you like


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## okonski_uk (Dec 28, 2000)

remember the "You had me at TiVo...."?

Just spotted a US TV commercial (on YouToob) where that is the punchline used on the TV campaign. It looks as though this is a TiVo Inc idea and not Virgin, so the fact they have vans branded with this is to cover the UK marketing campaign.


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## abuelbanat (Jan 8, 2011)

cwaring said:


> And I'm sure they will; eventually, when they have been trained on the item. Rememeber, they've only had them in-store barely a week.


You miss my point Carl. Of course they'll eventually be trained - I never suggested otherwise. My point was that in a competitive market it's often counterproductive to rush products out without adequate support. There's not much difference to the average tv viewer between Sky+ and VMTiVo - now, WE know there's a massive difference, but if I didn't and wanted a tv package pronto I'd be marching up to Rupert's door on the strength of VMs pathetic high street attempt to get me interested in what we all know is a better product.

I reckon this is a genuine, viable alternative to Sky - like it was 8/9 years ago. I swear to god they better not bungle it again.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Fair enough, Father Of Daughters. Have a cup of tea. (Yes, I watch The West Wing too )


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## mrwhizzard (Dec 13, 2010)

abuelbanat said:


> You miss my point Carl. Of course they'll eventually be trained - I never suggested otherwise. My point was that in a competitive market it's often counterproductive to rush products out without adequate support. There's not much difference to the average tv viewer between Sky+ and VMTiVo - now, WE know there's a massive difference, but if I didn't and wanted a tv package pronto I'd be marching up to Rupert's door on the strength of VMs pathetic high street attempt to get me interested in what we all know is a better product.
> 
> I reckon this is a genuine, viable alternative to Sky - like it was 8/9 years ago. I swear to god they better not bungle it again.


They won't. There's no point of widespread marketing at this point as it's not available to new customers as yet. Come sometime in Q2 when that changes that will change. Units in shops are purely a "coming soon" placard at this point - though how they will be able to market it in those stores that fall under mixed offnet/on-net areas remains to be seen.

You've probably seen the new VM ad 'A Better Place To Live..'. Just the beginning of VM's 2011 marketing my friends, just the beginnning...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Just done a couple of mocks of an idea I had for a possible ad campaign. Basically the same ad but with the different features highlighted in each one.

(We won't mention "It Pauses Live TV!" )


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Mine can do both those things.


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## dazzabird (Feb 12, 2011)

when is it we will start to receive calls about TIVO ?

Registered on the virgin tivo site on the 14 dec 2010

Darren


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Mine can do both those things.


Which explains why I don't work for an ad agency 

*ETA:* 
That said, WMC isn't really a mass-market, mainstream PVR-in-a-box solution


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## VirginMediaPhil (Nov 27, 2009)

Two things; Most people won't know what 'DVR' means, they just know it's a Plus box (Sky+, V+, Freeview+) Secondly we don't have seasons.

But yeah I don't work for an ad agency either so


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