# MPEG2HD -> MPEG4HD Transition to start with LA DNS



## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

This is a message to provided from DirecTV to share on forum communities:

Customers with HD DNS channels will start to see crawls on their HD DNS channels starting Wednesday (1/16/2008). These are intended to communicate to MPEG2 customers the urgency of them needing to switch out their MPEG2 hardware to MPEG4 hardware. 
The crawls will appear at the top of each hour initially and may be throttled up depending on how many customers react and how quickly. 

The crawl will have a message something like this &#8220;THIS CHANNEL WILL BE MOVING. PLEASE TUNE TO CHANNEL 85 FOR MORE INFORMATION.&#8221; 

It will direct customers to channel 85 which will explain the need for a 5 LNB dish, and a MPEG4 HD receiver. 

The slide will ask customers to view:
New Lineup:
CBSWHD &#8211; Channel 391
NBCWHD &#8211; Channel 393
ABCWHD &#8211; Channel 397
FOXWHD &#8211; Channel 399 

If the customer receives an error message or searching for satellite, they will need to call for the upgrade. 

The message is directed for customers in the Western Half of the United States right now in order to migrate these folks to MPEG4 and reclaim that MPEG2 bandwidth.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Interesting. I wonder when they will do this with the east coast HD DNS? Or more importantly, how long before they shut down the MPEG2 versions?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Logically, that would be next. I doubt they'd do the west coast and not the east coast.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I wonder if they will wait until all west coast DNS subs have new equipment before they shut down the MPEG2 versions? Otherwise, they'd piss off some customers. 

then same would be true for the east coast.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

So much for the folks who kept saying 'It's never going to happen'. or 'it will be years away'


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

JimSpence said:


> I wonder if they will wait until all west coast DNS subs have new equipment before they shut down the MPEG2 versions? Otherwise, they'd piss off some customers.
> 
> then same would be true for the east coast.


I doubt it. If they give people ample notice (as apparently they are planning on doing), it's their fault (the customer) for not upgrading. There will always be some hold outs and they can't wait forever. I'm sure they have a timeline that they are going to stick by. Still not sure what it is, but I recall predicting within the next 3 months.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Mark Lopez said:


> I doubt it. If they give people ample notice (as apparently they are planning on doing), it's their fault (the customer) for not upgrading. There will always be some hold outs and they can't wait forever. I'm sure they have a timeline that they are going to stick by. Still not sure what it is, but I recall predicting within the next 3 months.


I'm with you, Mark. But there will be those who say its DTVs fault for changing things in the first place.

It's a numbers game. The idea is for DTV to do everything reasonable that's within their power to make the number of "surprised" viewers as small as possible, so that the call volume doesn't overwhelm. They always take a risk of pissing folks off by changing things, so this is pre-damage control damage control.

My guess would be that this will be watched carefully by DTV. IOW, this is a test on a smaller scale to see what kind of and how many MPEG-2 issues arise. Once they assess the outcome, they will likely formalize a plan for the rest of MPEG-2.

But this is definitely a milestone, and a harbinger to those still in denial. I'd be sweating the loss of FOX11 had I not gone over to the dark side and got a HR20. That Tivo rock vs. +DVR hard place just got that much more uncomfortable.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Anyone know how many subs have HD DNS?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

JimSpence said:


> Anyone know how many subs have HD DNS?


Most pre-MPEG-4 owners...
Because of the blanket waivers.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

ebonovic said:


> Most pre-MPEG-4 owners...
> Because of the blanket waivers.


 Can you expand on this? I was grandfathered in years ago before it became even harder to get waivers. And getting them early on was not an easy feat. So what are these blanket waivers you speak of? And I didn't think there would be that many, especially getting the HD feeds (i.e. they have SD only receivers).


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## bldxyz (Feb 8, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> The slide will ask customers to view:
> New Lineup:
> CBSWHD  Channel 391
> NBCWHD  Channel 393
> ...


I'm afraid I'm confused.

I have the HR10, and I presently get CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX via the OTA antenna on my roof. I would be very concerned if my present HD package of things like UHD, HDNM, TNTHD, Discovery-HD, and, of course, HBOH were to go away...

I have recently investigated my other options, and it looks to me that I'd have to pay $50 a month more for cableCARD-based HD Tivo, or have a crippled Comcast Tivo HD... Am I going to be faced with a choice of being forced out of Tivo or have to deal with Comcast?

(This would especially agitate me since I "leased" the box just 19 months ago that I paid hundreds of dollars for -- to my surprise when the installer showed up and required me to sign an acknowledgment of same)


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

bldxyz said:


> I'm afraid I'm confused.
> 
> I have the HR10, and I presently get CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX via the OTA antenna on my roof. I would be very concerned if my present HD package of things like UHD, HDNM, TNTHD, Discovery-HD, and, of course, HBOH were to go away...


Your OTA is uneffected.

ALL MPEG2 HD channels from DirecTV are being converted to MPEG4 and this year. Been the plan for nearly 4 years now.

Right now they are getting customers converted that have:
1) LA network DNS
2) Nascar Hotpass HD
3) MLB EI HD

By early summer will most likely be the big one..Sunday Ticket Superfan HD subs.

Then NY network DNS will come at some point as will all the sat channels (TNT, Universal, etc.) I'd expect most of it to be done by years end if not sooner.

As for Tivo, DirecTV hasn't made an SD DirecTivo in over 3 years and it's been nearly 2 years since the last HR10 (HD DirecTivo) was made. If you just got it 19 months ago it was one of the last ones to actually be available thru DirecTV. The HR20 launched in August/Sept 2006 and the HR10 was no longer available.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Mark Lopez said:


> Can you expand on this? I was grandfathered in years ago before it became even harder to get waivers. And getting them early on was not an easy feat. So what are these blanket waivers you speak of? And I didn't think there would be that many, especially getting the HD feeds (i.e. they have SD only receivers).


The O&O's blanket waiver that was granted about the same time the HR10-250 was released to market.

O&O - Owned and Operated.

In a fair number of the DMA's, a blanket waiver was given for the DNS for those affiliates that owned and operated the affiliate in that area (the network).

So it was not every market, but it was a very large population of the HD customer base.

A lot of those waivers have already been recinded though, as those areas have gotten MPEG-4 LILs and the HR20 was released.

My East-DNS waiver was revoked about a month after adding the HR20 to the account.


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## izzy223 (Sep 25, 2003)

I got two HR20's in March, and I still have my East Coast HD's. So you mean I should not have been able to watch 4 NFL games every weekend for free?


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

bldxyz said:


> I'm afraid I'm confused.
> 
> I have the HR10, and I presently get CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX via the OTA antenna on my roof. I would be very concerned if my present HD package of things like UHD, HDNM, TNTHD, Discovery-HD, and, of course, HBOH were to go away...
> 
> ...


Eventually all of those channels will go away on the HR10. However this announcement only affects the HD locals in LA that are currently broadcast in Mpeg-2 in the 80s. So you have time before you have to make a decision. DirecTV _should_ offer to upgrade you for free to the new HR21 before shutting off those channels.


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## bldxyz (Feb 8, 2002)

bigpuma said:


> So you have time before you have to make a decision. DirecTV _should_ offer to upgrade you for free to the new HR21 before shutting off those channels.


While I imagine that is true, I hope it is long enough in the future when that happens that they can really feel justified in keeping my hundreds of dollars they collected on a Tivo product when offering a non-Tivo substitute. There is no way, no way at all, that I would have accepted a non-Tivo box for that much money.

Even if I got one of the last ones they sold, I bought at a time when they didn't offer the HR20, and that wouldn't excuse them from collecting so much money and then disabling support for it. I'm not saying they won't do that, but I am saying that they will pry my Tivo only out of my cold, dead hands.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

izzy223 said:


> I got two HR20's in March, and I still have my East Coast HD's. So you mean I should not have been able to watch 4 NFL games every weekend for free?


Yes and No... DirecTv hasn't been as deligent as they were a year ago, with re-auditing ther DNS feeds... but don't count on them being there next season..

As with the conversion, they are re-auditing the waivers.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

bldxyz said:


> While I imagine that is true, I hope it is long enough in the future when that happens that they can really feel justified in keeping my hundreds of dollars they collected on a Tivo product when offering a non-Tivo substitute. There is no way, no way at all, that I would have accepted a non-Tivo box for that much money.
> 
> Even if I got one of the last ones they sold, I bought at a time when they didn't offer the HR20, and that wouldn't excuse them from collecting so much money and then disabling support for it. I'm not saying they won't do that, but I am saying that they will pry my Tivo only out of my cold, dead hands.


Take your gloves off then, to get your hands pretty cold... (don't want to see them dead).

As it is not going to be that much longer till move to the EAST DNS, and then the remaining core channels (and not necessarily in that order)....

I would not be surprised if the HBO moves arround the same time they start to uplink/receive HBO's MPEG-4 transmissions.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

> I would not be surprised if the HBO moves arround the same time they start to uplink/receive HBO's MPEG-4 transmissions.


Any idea when that might be? I have 2 HR10-250s and record mostly OTA. The only HD I record from D* is HBOHD and SHOWHD. My plans have been to wait for the OTA solution for the HR21 before I upgrade. 
I know I can get some of the OTA stations from D* Mpeg-4, but in the last few weeks we have had several snow storms that have coated my dish and caused the signal to be lost for at least 12 hours. I have always been able to record HD from OTA, even during the worst weather.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

For the mirroring fee, keep the HR10 active so you can use it to record your OTA HD. That's what I plan to do once the DNS networks move to MPEG4.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> For the mirroring fee, keep the HR10 active so you can use it to record your OTA HD. That's what I plan to do once the DNS networks move to MPEG4.


I thought of that but I have both of my HR10-250s connected to two HDTVs. One TV has every input connection used and the other one has a single HDMI connection available, but I would need to purchase another expensive 25 foot HDMI cable. All my DVRs are mounted in a closet which has 1.5 inch PVC running to all TV locations in my house.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

JimSpence said:


> For the mirroring fee, keep the HR10 active so you can use it to record your OTA HD. That's what I plan to do once the DNS networks move to MPEG4.


Don't count on keeping your HR10 anymore. See Earl's post here.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

hiker said:


> Don't count on keeping your HR10 anymore. See Earl's post here.


I own both hr10s so I doubt they would take them. The HR10 does a great job of recording HD OTA or SD from satellite. Why would D* care if someone wants an HR10 to record those two things. They can always warn someone at activation time that the HR10 will not be able to record HD from satellite.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

bpratt said:


> I thought of that but I have both of my HR10-250s connected to two HDTVs. One TV has every input connection used and the other one has a single HDMI connection available, but I would need to purchase another expensive 25 foot HDMI cable. All my DVRs are mounted in a closet which has 1.5 inch PVC running to all TV locations in my house.


You need an automatic HDMI switch. I have one from Octava, monoprice.com has another popular model. One HDMI output to the TV and as many HDMI inputs as you need. With my setup, the remote (Harmony 880) tells the switch which input to use for a given device, or one can use the automatic selection feature.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

bpratt said:


> I own both hr10s so I doubt they would take them. The HR10 does a great job of recording HD OTA or SD from satellite. Why would D* care if someone wants an HR10 to record those two things. They can always warn someone at activation time that the HR10 will not be able to record HD from satellite.


The one problem they are running into... are people then selling those HR10's (and older equipment)... and the new owners are demanding free upgrades.

So on case/by/case, the equipment is be SWAPPED (as in your will not keep the old equipment), in other cases you will keep them.


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## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

bpratt said:


> ...I would need to purchase another expensive 25 foot HDMI cable....


The cheap 25' is $15.

The really good 25' is $41.

I have both and have never had issues with either. Ego says to buy another of the thick manly cables. Common sense (wife) says to save the money.

- Craig


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

bpratt said:


> but in the last few weeks we have had several snow storms that have coated my dish and caused the signal to be lost for at least 12 hours.


I assume it's out of reach up on your roof. If so, a supersoaker and warm water will take care of that problem. Even better if you have a kid that will love "shooting" the dish. :up:


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

shibby191 said:


> I assume it's out of reach up on your roof. If so, a supersoaker and warm water will take care of that problem. Even better if you have a kid that will love "shooting" the dish. :up:


My dish is about 25 feet up mounted to a chimney on one end of my house. Will a supersoaker shoot that high?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

This is why I made sure to mount my dish within broom's reach of a second-story window. I've had to brush it off twice so far this winter.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

What if I wanted to keep my HDTivo for everything except Directv HD channels? Would they agree to connect it up that way? 
I bought my 10-250 when it first came out.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

stevel said:


> This is why I made sure to mount my dish within broom's reach of a second-story window. I've had to brush it off twice so far this winter.


I wish I could do that. The only way to get above the trees south of my house is to mount the dish high on the chimney.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

bpratt said:


> My dish is about 25 feet up mounted to a chimney on one end of my house. Will a supersoaker shoot that high?


Some of those things will go pretty far. Why not try it, they only cost $15-$20. That would be worth it to try to not lose channels for 12 hours. If it doesn't work then a kid on the block would sure like it.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Cudahy said:


> What if I wanted to keep my HDTivo for everything except Directv HD channels? Would they agree to connect it up that way?
> I bought my 10-250 when it first came out.


Why not. If you own it then you should be able to keep it. I guess if the installer tries to take it you can refuse the install.

Or you can go to Costco and get the HR21 for $169 bucks and have no worries at all about your HDDirecTivo.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

shibby191 said:


> Why not. If you own it then you should be able to keep it. I guess if the installer tries to take it you can refuse the install.
> 
> Or you can go to Costco and get the HR21 for $169 bucks and have no worries at all about your HDDirecTivo.


Just have the CSR note on your work order that the unit is owned. I had 1 owned and 1 leased. The sent a box for the leased one, if I would have kept it active I could have kept it. The owned one I could do with whatever I wanted to do.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

joed32 said:


> Just have the CSR note on your work order that the unit is owned. I had 1 owned and 1 leased. The sent a box for the leased one, if I would have kept it active I could have kept it. The owned one I could do with whatever I wanted to do.


Even owned units are being required to be returned, if you are agreeing to an upgraded price.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> Why not. If you own it then you should be able to keep it.


If DirecTV is upgrading someone for free don't you think they have the right to take back the product they are upgrading?



> Or you can go to Costco and get the HR21 for $169 bucks and have no worries at all about your HDDirecTivo.


This is the answer if you absolutely must keep your HR10.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

bigpuma said:


> If DirecTV is upgrading someone for free don't you think they have the right to take back the product they are upgrading?


Well it's not exactly a free upgrade (as promoted) then is it, if they have to take something of mine of value as a trade-in? If the HR10 is leased then I don't have a problem giving it up, but mine are owned and I should a right to sell it if I wish.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I see there's a new channel today saying that I'm going to lose my HD networks "in the near future" if I don't upgrade. 
I'm going to call and agree to the upgrade if they'll connect it so I can switch between the 2.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Cudahy said:


> I see there's a new channel today saying that I'm going to lose my HD networks "in the near future" if I don't upgrade.
> I'm going to call and agree to the upgrade if they'll connect it so I can switch between the 2.


All indications, and from what I have been told.
Is they are going to take your older system as part of the upgrade.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

hiker said:


> Well it's not exactly a free upgrade (as promoted) then is it, if they have to take something of mine of value as a trade-in? If the HR10 is leased then I don't have a problem giving it up, but mine are owned and I should a right to sell it if I wish.


Yes it is. The UPGRADE portion is free. The delta. It is not an ADDITIONAL free DVR. It is an UPGRADE.

You know, how when you UPGRADE Windows, you lose the original Windows install?


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Tech support at Directv just told me that it's not technically possible to connect both my 10-250Tivo and the HR21 to the same TV, so I guess I'm just going to stick with Tivo.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> Tech support at Directv just told me that it's not technically possible to connect both my 10-250Tivo and the HR21 to the same TV, so I guess I'm just going to stick with Tivo.


They told you wrong. There is no problem having an HR10 and an HR21 connected to the same TV if the TV has available inputs. If not, you can always get a HDMI switch for less than $30.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Yes it is. The UPGRADE portion is free. The delta. It is not an ADDITIONAL free DVR. It is an UPGRADE.
> 
> You know, how when you UPGRADE Windows, you lose the original Windows install?


But they're UPGRADING you from something YOU OWN to something you DON"T OWN.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> But they're UPGRADING you from something YOU OWN to something you DON"T OWN.


What is the point of owning the receivers today?

Seriously...

I see so many people harping on that point....
What is the point of owning the receiver today?

Know what I have for my roughly $6k worth of owned equipment... I have gotten maybe... $1,000 back... and that is after spending several hundred more in hard drive upgrades..

My $1k HR10-250... $50... it cost almost as much to ship as it did to sell.

Considering that most of them will be replaced by a newer model in about 2 years.... what is the resell market going to be for them?

So what is the point of owning them?


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

ebonovic said:


> What is the point of owning the receivers today?
> 
> Seriously...
> 
> ...


Something else to complain about!!


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Cudahy said:


> Tech support at Directv just told me that it's not technically possible to connect both my 10-250Tivo and the HR21 to the same TV, so I guess I'm just going to stick with Tivo.


Not sure why anyone would even ask a clueless CSR a technical question like that. They don't know. 

Seriously though, I'm not busting your chops. But you can hook up 5 different DirecTV receiver to a single TV if you have the inputs to do it. On mine I have 3 DirecTV receivers, a FTA sat receiver, VCR, DVD player and sometimes a Wii. All runs just fine.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

It would be like any other receiver - $4.99 mirror fee and it would stay as it is now. They don't charge per receiver for HD or DVR it's per account. So for $5/month you'd keep it as a standard receiver with an HD off-air tuner.


Cudahy said:


> What if I wanted to keep my HDTivo for everything except Directv HD channels? Would they agree to connect it up that way?
> I bought my 10-250 when it first came out.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Other then needing 2 more sat lines installed that's absurd. (They told me that they turned off the OTA feature of the HR20 so it wouldn't matter what receiver I got). They are mosly clueless.


Cudahy said:


> Tech support at Directv just told me that it's not technically possible to connect both my 10-250Tivo and the HR21 to the same TV, so I guess I'm just going to stick with Tivo.


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## lawnmowerdeth (Jan 11, 2003)

I have NY Fox DNS... I hope they don't do this before the Superbowl, it would be one more reason to hate them!


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Several posters have said there should be no problem connecting both the HDtivo and the HR21 to the same TV(it has 4 inputs) but if tech support at Directv says they can't do it what can I do?


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## David Scavo (Dec 14, 1999)

bigpuma said:


> DirecTV _should_ offer to upgrade you for free to the new HR21 before shutting off those channels.


Has anyone been successful in getting an HR20 + OTA +5LNB dish free upgrade with no contract extension ?

I know I am dreaming, but that is what I am holding out for.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

David Scavo said:


> Has anyone been successful in getting an HR20 + OTA +5LNB dish free upgrade with no contract extension ?
> 
> I know I am dreaming, but that is what I am holding out for.


I tried to get the HR20 but finally gave up. I had found them locally, but could not get D* to credit my account. I did get 2 HR21s +5LNB dish, free upgrade and no contract extension to replace my 2 HR10s. I guess I'll just buy the AM21 OTA tuner for the HR21 when they are available. So the total cost to me should be about $118.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> Several posters have said there should be no problem connecting both the HDtivo and the HR21 to the same TV(it has 4 inputs) but if tech support at Directv says they can't do it what can I do?


Hook it up yourself.


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## David Scavo (Dec 14, 1999)

bpratt said:


> I did get 2 HR21s +5LNB dish, free upgrade and no contract extension to replace my 2 HR10s. I guess I'll just buy the AM21 OTA tuner for the HR21 when they are available. So the total cost to me should be about $118.


Good to know it is almost possible. Thanks.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

bpratt said:


> I did get *2 HR21s +5LNB dish, free upgrade* and *no contract extension* to replace my 2 HR10s.


Unless someone really screwed up, that sounds very unlikely.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

Mark Lopez said:


> Unless someone really screwed up, that sounds very unlikely.


I guess someone really screwed up.


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## joed32 (Jul 9, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> All indications, and from what I have been told.
> Is they are going to take your older system as part of the upgrade.


They gave me 2 HR21s, I asked them to note that I owned 1 HR10 and they said I could keep it and I did. I put 1 of the new HR21s in my sons room to replace his old SD Tivo and kept my HR10 active in my room. So now I have 2 HR20-700, 1 HR20-100, 2 HR21, and 1 HR10 active. They have to replace our equipment before they shut off the MPEG2 feeds or lose our business. Fortunately I'm in SoCal and the changeover is imminent and temporarily the customer has the upper hand.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Cudahy said:


> Several posters have said there should be no problem connecting both the HDtivo and the HR21 to the same TV(it has 4 inputs) but if tech support at Directv says they can't do it what can I do?


As someone else said, hook it up yourself. If you can't then you'll be dealing with the local installer in person anyway, not some clueless CSR on the phone. When the installer brings the HR21 he will simply need to make sure there are 4 coax to the location (2 for the HR21 and the 2 the HR10 is using) and hook the HR21 to another input on your TV. Done deal. Or run the cables yourself, have the installer take care of the dish while you hook up the receiver (that's what I did, I didn't let the installer touch anything other then setting up the dish). He was more then happy to let me do half his job. He just made sure the HR20 was all working and then went away.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Thanks Shibby! I'll call Directv again and explain this to tech support since I'm not able to run the cables myself and offer to pay more for the service.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Cudahy said:


> Thanks Shibby! I'll call Directv again and explain this to tech support since I'm not able to run the cables myself and offer to pay more for the service.


It's all free with a standard install. I assume you need the 5 LNB dish and all that as well.

So free with the install would be your HR21 receiver, new dish, new multiswitch if needed and they'll run new/additional cables as needed. The only real thing you need to talk to tech support about is that you want to keep your HR10 because you own it.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

hiker said:


> Don't count on keeping your HR10 anymore. See Earl's post here.


jim already has his hr20 thankfully


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

My second call worked. This Tech lady said I could have the free upgrade and keep the 10-250 connected by having the installer lay 2 more lines. She did imply that some installers don't know what they're doing, but that's another story.


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> This is a message to provided from DirecTV to share on forum communities:
> 
> Customers with HD DNS channels will start to see crawls on their HD DNS channels starting Wednesday (1/16/2008). These are intended to communicate to MPEG2 customers the urgency of them needing to switch out their MPEG2 hardware to MPEG4 hardware.
> The crawls will appear at the top of each hour initially and may be throttled up depending on how many customers react and how quickly.
> ...


Thank you for keeping us informed. Why does Directv see it necessary to use tivocommunity for all its communication? Can it not use its website or dbstalk?


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

It's posted on DBSTALK and many other sites. It's also scrolling across the TV screen in affected areas.


rrr22777 said:


> Thank you for keeping us informed. Why does Directv see it necessary to use tivocommunity for all its communication? Can it not use its website or dbstalk?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

rrr22777 said:


> Thank you for keeping us informed. Why does Directv see it necessary to use tivocommunity for all its communication? Can it not use its website or dbstalk?


Umm... to make sure as many people see the information as possible?

The information was posted in the blogger forum section of forums.directv.com, with the request for everyone in that forum... to get the word out as much as possible to the forums/blogs they are apart of.

And yes... dbstalk.com has the information, but honestly...
The user base at DBSTalk, is probably the LEAST affected by this change out of most of the other forums out there.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rrr22777 said:


> Thank you for keeping us informed. Why does Directv see it necessary to use tivocommunity for all its communication? Can it not use its website or dbstalk?


It affects TiVo, no?

And your in a DirecTV forum on TiVo Community, no?


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## rrr22777 (Jul 31, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> Umm... to make sure as many people see the information as possible?
> 
> The information was posted in the blogger forum section of forums.directv.com, with the request for everyone in that forum... to get the word out as much as possible to the forums/blogs they are apart of.
> 
> ...


Your dedication as a non-paid Directv employee to distribute information 1 hour prior to it being plastered on all TV's in the US is greatly appreciated.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rrr22777 said:


> Your dedication as a non-paid Directv employee to distribute information 1 hour prior to it being plastered on all TV's in the US is greatly appreciated.


+1

Thanks again Earl for the helpful information! You are a wonderful resource for DirecTV information!

:up::up::up:


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## Dignan (Jan 27, 2002)

Seriously, thanks Earl. I'm getting my HR-whatevers installed tomorrow. I'm glad I had the heads up here, I'm sure they are swamped with callers right now, or will be very soon. I saw a bit of the crawl on an ABC soap today (I wasn't watching..).


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

rrr22777 said:


> Your dedication as a non-paid Directv employee to distribute information 1 hour prior to it being plastered on all TV's in the US is greatly appreciated.


Your welcome... (but it was more like 2 days..  )


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I'm surprised more subscribers aren't getting the upgrade while keeping the 10-250 connected. That will give me the chance to get used to the HR21 and then decide whether to move over to it or eventually go to cable to keep my Tivo(assuming no HDtivo is made). 
It took 2 calls to tech support but I'm getting a free upgrade without losing the active 10-250.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

some dont have 4 wires or more available to them unfortunately. People like me with 2 stacked hdtivos and hr20 on top are rare i think  all SD and OTA is on the hdtivos and all mpeg4 is hr20 of course.


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## Robert Spalding (Jan 12, 2001)

my hr10-250 is getting moved upstairs to my bedroom because my HDTV up there has no ATSC OTA tuner...I also paid $800 for it so I'd like to get some more use out of it. (of course Earl will ***** about me wanting to keep the Tivo!)


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Robert Spalding said:


> my hr10-250 is getting moved upstairs to my bedroom because my HDTV up there has no ATSC OTA tuner...I also paid $800 for it so I'd like to get some more use out of it. (of course Earl will ***** about me wanting to keep the Tivo!)


Why would I *****?

I coudl care less that you want to keep it or not....

It is you that has to work out the arrangement with DirecTV in order to get an upgrade rate, without turning in the unit you are upgrading from.


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> What is the point of owning the receivers today?
> 
> Seriously...
> 
> ...


Possibly for the parts, most particulary the hard drive.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> What is the point of owning the receivers today?
> 
> Seriously...
> 
> ...


It's worked out well for me.

When I left Dish network for DireecTV and sold me equipment, I bought 2 DirecTiVo's and still made a good profit thanks to the Canadian hackers.

When I left DirecTV, my HR10 fetched over $400 and my SD DirecTiVo's over $100 each. I made enough to buy my Series 3.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

What will a HR-21 give me right now that a HR-10 won't without a 5 LNB dish. I can't upgrade my dish at this time.

Nothing right? The LA DNS are going to MPEG 4, and i can't get any MPEG 4 without the 5 LNB dish, no matter what receiver I have?

-smak-


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Nothing too useful, I'll agree. Some networking features, but that's hardly a reason to switch.


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## jerryj (Mar 7, 2004)

I have a similar question. D* installed a new 5 LNB dish with my HR20 install. They installed the new dish on the other side of the house from the old 3 LNB dish which they left. If I connect up a MPEG 4 receiver to the old 3 LNB dish, will it receive any of the new HD channels?


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

jerryj said:


> I have a similar question. D* installed a new 5 LNB dish with my HR20 install. They installed the new dish on the other side of the house from the old 3 LNB dish which they left. If I connect up a MPEG 4 receiver to the old 3 LNB dish, will it receive any of the new HD channels?


No, trhe 3 LNB does noit see the new sats


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

I got the HR20/21(don't know which yet) installed yesterday and he didn't disconnect the HR10-250(after a couple of phone calls). 
I'm glad we've got plenty of time to learn the new DVR. The one positive(so far)is that the HD looks a little better on the new one. 
The only charge was $45 to install the extra 2 lines.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

How do you not know which one it is ?? HR20 is silver, HR21 is black ???? 

Just askin'


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> How do you not know which one it is ?? HR20 is silver, HR21 is black ????
> 
> Just askin'


For the most part, yes... but there are black HR20-100s.

You can tell from either the information screen on the unit...
Inside the front door (near the access card)

Or the lack of ATSC input on the back.


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## OaklandRobb (Jul 1, 2001)

Earl,

Do you have any additional information on an OTA adapter for the HR21?


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## TSpoonEars (Feb 28, 2002)

It's a tricky decision for us. We really like our Tivo, but can see the change is a necessary evil to get all the new HD. However:

1) We rent our home. Last time DirecTV came out, they wouldn't put the dish on a tripod, so I had to mount it myself. I understand this is not possible anymore, an installer has to point the dish.

2) Cable is an option for us, and they have no contract. But, and this is a big one, if we go with TivoHD, there is a contract, so we are effectively contracted to Comcast anyway. After 12 months, the cable bill would be approx $50 more than we pay now for less HD. We like Tivo, but not that much. And their plans seem so unbelievably convoluted right now.

3) There just seems something wrong in DirecTV taking a receiver I own, and giving a replacement I then lease. Still I guess I can get over it. At least I know I won't be paying a grand for a receiver in the future only to have it obsoleted in two years. That said, if that's amortized, it pretty much covers the extra $50 I'd be paying with cable per month for two years.

Does anyone know if DirecTV will install the new dish on a tripod? My satellite cables run through a window right now.

Decisions decisions. I really want SpeedHD and SciFiHD though - not that Formula One in HD will be available anytime soon, but it would be nice to see the SFGiants suck in HD instead of SD.

Cheers, 

Andy.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

tell them to make a note that you want to move the hdtivo to another room. And even if it's supposed to be a swap, most people that have posted say that they got to keep theirs


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

OaklandRobb said:


> Earl,
> 
> Do you have any additional information on an OTA adapter for the HR21?


What type of additional information are you looking for?

It is called the AM21
It will be a dual OTA tuner
It will connect to your HR21 via USB
It has a power-pass through, so only one outlet plug for AM21 and HR21
Expected price: $59

Availability, is the only thing I don't have confirmed at this point


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

TSpoonEars said:


> 1) We rent our home. Last time DirecTV came out, they wouldn't put the dish on a tripod, so I had to mount it myself. I understand this is not possible anymore, an installer has to point the dish.


You can most certainly install it yourself if you're comfortable with doing it. Videos on installing can be found on Solid Signal or Sadoun. The Slimline (which is really all you can get now) isn't much harder to install then the older 3 LNB dish.



> Does anyone know if DirecTV will install the new dish on a tripod? My satellite cables run through a window right now.


I don't see why not. I think you just had a bumb installer before. Do note that the new 5 LNB dishes need a 2 inch OD (outside diameter) pole which is bigger then the older dishes. It is a lot heavier though so that tripod had better be secure.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

TSpoonEars said:


> Last time DirecTV came out, they wouldn't put the dish on a tripod, so I had to mount it myself. I understand this is not possible anymore, an installer has to point the dish.


If you want a "non-standard" install, you'll probably have to do it yourself. This is precisely the reason I bought my own 5-LNB dish, and mounted it at ground level right outside a window. Instead of a tripod, I bought a 2-foot length of pipe from a muffler shop, and then sunk that into a wood planter filled with 150 lbs. of concrete. Recently we had a storm with 60 mph winds -- that thing didn't budge. 

Aiming it was easier than I thought. I bought a signal meter which helped, but I have a feeling that using the on-screen meters would yield similar results.


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## OaklandRobb (Jul 1, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> What type of additional information are you looking for?
> 
> It is called the AM21
> It will be a dual OTA tuner
> ...


Tnanks, Earl. That is very complete. I did want to know the availability as I was trying to figure out which would come first, D* providing PBS HD via satellite in San Francisco Bay Area, or availability of the AM21. That is really the only other HD local channel I care about that is not currently provided by satellite in my area.

But as long as you have been so kind to answer, here is one more. I assume the AM21 will be subject to the same limitation of not being able to use diplexers. I am guessing that limitation is based on the dish. Yes?

Again, thank you.

Robb


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Yes, as that is not a limitation on the ATSC... but the fact that the diplexors want to use the same frequency range as what the B-Band's of the sat signal use


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

TSpoonEars said:


> 3) There just seems something wrong in DirecTV taking a receiver I own, and giving a replacement I then lease. Still I guess I can get over it. At least I know I won't be paying a grand for a receiver in the future only to have it obsoleted in two years. That said, if that's amortized, it pretty much covers the extra $50 I'd be paying with cable per month for two years.


I look at it this way, the HR10 is worth at most $50 now since it is a dead technology so who cares if they want to take it. Also some people are still reporting being able to keep it if you tell the installer you own it and you still have programs on it you want to watch. I was able to keep mine but that was back in December so YMMV. If they really wanted to take my HR10 at this point I wouldn't care. I am keeping it to use for SD only on my office TV because it has the bigger HD otherwise I would just keep my R10 hooked up instead.


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## bigpuma (Aug 12, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Yes, as that is not a limitation on the ATSC... but the fact that the diplexors want to use the same frequency range as what the B-Band's of the sat signal use


I thought there was a way around this by placing the diplexers after the BBCs. Of course this makes for an unusual installation.


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## TSpoonEars (Feb 28, 2002)

bigpuma said:


> I look at it this way, the HR10 is worth at most $50 now since it is a dead technology so who cares if they want to take it. Also some people are still reporting being able to keep it if you tell the installer you own it and you still have programs on it you want to watch. I was able to keep mine but that was back in December so YMMV. If they really wanted to take my HR10 at this point I wouldn't care. I am keeping it to use for SD only on my office TV because it has the bigger HD otherwise I would just keep my R10 hooked up instead.


I know you're right, I just don't like 'losing' $1000 in two years. It's the price you pay for being an early adopter though I guess, and it was worth it to me at the time, so I really shouldn't be upset.

I don't want to have to pay for a new 5lnb dish myself in order to do a custom install, I would be out another few hundred bucks then, just to continue to receive the HD channels I have right now - 90% of our viewing is locals and we are too far away from the transmitters to get OTA signals.

Thanks for all the advice from everyone. My plan right now is to ask DirecTV if they'll do the upgrade of the dish on the tripod and if they refuse, then move to the dark side and Comcast. I'm pretty sure they won't just send a new dish and receiver and let me do the install, like they used to, but you never know.

Cheers,

Andy.


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## DAS37 (Apr 5, 2004)

I too have mine on a tripod with the cables coming in through the window so I am interested in your results. I will be moving on March 1st although I don't know where yet so I don't know if I will still have to use the tripod. Hopefully, they don't do the switch until then so I can get the fresh install at the new place. The planter with concrete is also an intriguing alternative.


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## robb (Jan 9, 2001)

Hmmm, hoping I'm not in for a nightmare.

I responded to a free upgrade offer (actually I ignored it for months until the crawl started). The terms are: new dish, new HD DVR receiver, 2-year commitment, no cost upgrade.

I confirmed that I own the TiVo unit and will not surrender it. (If I hate DirecTV DVR, I want to be able to switch back)

The website shows that it's an "HR20 IRD" on my order. Is that the one that I want? 

I came looking for comparisons between TiVo and DirecTV DVR. Am I going to hate it? Will I lose suggestions? Will season passes and the like be harder? Will there me a long list of things I'll miss? Anyone have a link to a comparison between the products?

I've been using TiVo for about 8 years now, and I'm really sad to see it go.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

See here for a comparison. Unless you have your HR10 connected to an antenna, either the HR20 or HR21 is fine. The HR21 has a somewhat better satellite tuner than the HR20, but the difference is minor. Even if the website says HR20, you will almost certainly get an HR21.

The HR21/20 is a bit different from TiVo. You will lose suggestions on the box but gain a suggestions feature through the "remote booking" web site option. I have both, and each has its advantages and disadvantages.

It won't be a nightmare unless you pay attention to scary stories.


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## TSpoonEars (Feb 28, 2002)

Well, I have my install scheduled for Tuesday morning. DirecTV say they will install the dish on a tripod without issue and they even asked if we wanted to keep the HR10 (which we will). The upgrade is free. In any case I'm going to buy some cement, a planter box and a pole this weekend to provide some heavyweight support for the dish.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I hope I don't regret it, I'm stuck for two more years now.


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## videojanitor (Dec 21, 2001)

TSpoonEars said:


> In any case I'm going to buy some cement, a planter box and a pole this weekend to provide some heavyweight support for the dish.


Good luck with the install! If you want to see a pic of my dish in the planter box, I've posted it here:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8899/dishplanterbd3.jpg


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## DolphinGirl (May 29, 2005)

Any speculation when the NY DNS stations will be phased out?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

DolphinGirl said:


> Any speculation when the NY DNS stations will be phased out?


Nothing official. If I had to guess I'd say by end of the year, perhaps in the fall after the Sunday Ticket upgrades in the summer.

My WAG (Wild Arss Guess) is this:

Now (and confirmed):
LA DNS
Hotpass HD
MLB HD

Summer: 
Sunday Ticket HD
NHL HD and NBA HD (both are 99% already converted so not much there)

Fall:
NY DNS
Last remaining national MPEG2 HD channels

So everyone effected one way or another will get upgrade offers by the end of the year with total shutdown by end of the year or 1st quarter 09.
Just my guess. They've been going nearly 2 years now of users upgrading themselves. Now they have to push the last remaining few.


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