# Lost : The Other Woman March 6th



## BillL (Oct 6, 2004)

Ben has his way with Locke......again


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

First thing out of my mouth was, "Hey, it's the girl from Rescue Me!"

And that Juliet is a bit of a tart, isn't she?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Best. Ending. _EVAR._


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"He knows where to find me." 

"See you guys at dinner." lol


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

We get it, the Red Sox won the World Series (twice...ugh) enough already!!


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> We get it, the Red Sox won the World Series (twice...ugh) enough already!!


"I taped over the game."


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I look forward to the arguments over misheard dialogue in this ep, there's going to be quite a bit, I think.

So how did Ben get word to the Other Woman?

What were they really trying to do with the gas? It wasn't being released just then, it was fine as it is. I guess they were taking a preemptive measure to disable the gas for future attacks.

I guessed a while ago, and posted, that it was Penny's dad's boat. Who else could of it been? How else would they know about Desmond, and know who Penny is? Who else would have ordered the boat people to not pick up the phone?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Paperboy2003 said:


> We get it, the Red Sox won the World Series (twice...ugh) enough already!!


Obviously Ben is not a Sox fan:

"I taped over it."

With all of his resources, he couldn't afford to buy a new VHS tape?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

They were trying to make the gas inert (harmless)

I took the appearance of Harper (in the rain with Juliet) as a manifestation of the smoke monster. The whispers before and after combined with the quick disappearance makes me thing she wasn't real


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

OK so is Goodwin's wife hiding out wherever they have the children now?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

"I taped over the game" had me LOL'ing.

Said with such Ben seriousness


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Oh and one more thing I noticed. At the beginning when he lied to Juliette you could tell he was lying which Ben being Ben did on purpose because that guy can lie better than anyone. So why did he do it on purpose? Show her that he is in charge?


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> "I taped over the game" had me LOL'ing.
> 
> Said with such Ben seriousness


As did, "That rabbit didn't have a number on it, did it?"


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

Was Harper the woman who told Jack what his tattoos (really) meant, while he was with the Others?

God, I hate Jack. He looks at every single woman with puppy dog eyes. He switched emotionally from Juliet to Kate to Juliet faster than most people flick the TV channel.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Shaunnick said:


> With all of his resources, he couldn't afford to buy a new VHS tape?


Maybe just knowing that the tape existed was too painful for him.

First he was betrayed by Juliette, then by the Cardinals...


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

MitchO said:


> Was Harper the woman who told Jack what his tattoos (really) meant, while he was with the Others?


No, different actress, Diana Scarwig if I am not mistaken. She was the "sherriff" of the others if I remember correctly.


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

Yeah just looked it up on Lostpedia. That was Isabel, the judge/sheriff.


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## michad (Sep 9, 2002)

So the captain on the boat is...


Spoiler



Michael, also Ben's informant?


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I guess on obvious question is whether Penny and her father are cooperating in any way trying to find the island. Given Charles' feelings about Desmond, it doesn't seem like he'd care very much about rescuing him. I guess he could be doing it for his daughter. It's not like we can really trust what Ben said about his motives. I wouldn't be surprised if they both have no idea what the other is doing. It's hard to tell how close they are. I don't recall ever seeing the two of them together. It's always her and Desmond or him and Desmond.

At first I thought that Goodwin's wife was dead and/or appearing like Walt did, especially after we heard all the whispering. But I doubt that if it was supernatural in any way they wouldn't have let us know in this episode. It's just not the usual m.o.

Never mind, obviously Charles knows about Penny.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

michad said:


> So the captain on the boat is...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


huh?


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

I took Harper's appearance to be the whispers finally revealing themselves for once. I thought it was quite a big deal. This whole remote viewing / remote presence thing we've been seeing (look for transcripts of the whispers for more information).

All in all, this was my least favorite episode of the season. I think it's just because I don't find Juliet's character all that interesting.

And, was it just me, or were there far more commercials than normal in this episode? Perhaps this was due to the writers strike? Maybe there was no b-camera beachfront dialog written, just the main storyline. I would imagine that the meat of the episodes are written first, then the inconsequential yet humorous Losties banter is written as needed?


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

Shaunnick said:


> Obviously Ben is not a Sox fan:
> 
> "I taped over it."
> 
> With all of his resources, he couldn't afford to buy a new VHS tape?


Looking at the tape it did not look like a VHS. Maybe Betamax. Could not really see it since I am watching it on a crappy analog TV, feed.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Um - have we ever seen Harper before? cos I sure as heck don't remember her...


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## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

TiVotion said:


> As did, "That rabbit didn't have a number on it, did it?"


:up: Hilarious! I had to pause cause I was laughing so hard. Ben had a lot of great one liners this episode.



michad said:


> So the captain on the boat is...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I don't know if he is the captain.. just ben's man on the boat. And I feel like it's to almost too expected to be him and don't think it would make me "have to sit down," as Ben said. But I guess it would be super shocking to Locke. Could it be anyone else that we would make us super shocked?



TiVotion said:


> First thing out of my mouth was, "Hey, it's the girl from Rescue Me!"


Wow, I didn't recognize her. I guess the dark hair and I kept concentrating on the fact that her forehead was not moving.


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> I took Harper's appearance to be the whispers finally revealing themselves for once. I thought it was quite a big deal. This whole remote viewing / remote presence thing we've been seeing (look for transcripts of the whispers for more information).
> 
> All in all, this was my least favorite episode of the season. I think it's just because I don't find Juliet's character all that interesting.
> 
> ...


I've read some of those whispers transcripts and listened when someone modifies the sound so it's clearer - pretty freaky!! When I was watching, I did wonder if I'd be able to find those pages again - if anyone hears of such being posted, would you be so kind as to include a link? Thanks!

Agreed - the episode was fine, and it probably answered more questions... but what? There wasn't anything that had that AHA! feeling like in many other episodes. I like the AHA! feeling!


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> Um - have we ever seen Harper before? cos I sure as heck don't remember her...


No, I don't think so. It looks like they re-shot the barracks scene to include her. Notice how the actor that plays Ethan Rom wasn't there for this re-shooting of the scene. Sure, they could have spliced in footage, but then they would have had to pay him.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

Cindy1230 said:


> :up: Hilarious! I had to pause cause I was laughing so hard.


Same here, I was cracking up at that line.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

That knock upside the head that Kate got from Charlotte was just plain cold. Ouch.

It was an interesting episode, per norm, few answers given, many more come up.

Best line of the ep - 
"It's stressful being an other"


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Cindy1230 said:


> :up: Hilarious! I had to pause cause I was laughing so hard. Ben had a lot of great one liners this episode.
> 
> I don't know if he is the captain.. just ben's man on the boat. And I feel like it's to almost too expected to be him and don't think it would make me "have to sit down," as Ben said. But I guess it would be super shocking to Locke. Could it be anyone else that we would make us super shocked?
> 
> Wow, I didn't recognize her. I guess the dark hair and I kept concentrating on the fact that her forehead was not moving.


Yeah, I couldn't place her when she was on Criminal Minds a few weeks ago. I think because of the hair also.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Oh, and how the heck could Daniel type so hard in those rubber gloves? 

When that was happening I had a flash to a Simpsons episode with Homer and the nuclear power plant reaching core explosion - so he sat on it to stop it.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Cindy1230 said:


> I don't know if he is the captain.. just ben's man on the boat. And I feel like it's to almost too expected to be him and don't think it would make me "have to sit down," as Ben said. But I guess it would be super shocking to Locke. Could it be anyone else that we would make us super shocked?


Sure, there are more super-shocking possibilities:
Eko
Boone
Pauly Shore

But I still think it's Michael.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Preview spoiler:



Spoiler



Next ep. we find out who the 6th member of O6 is. We have Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sayid. Which means the speculation about whether Ben or Aaron counts is answered. Yes, one of them, but only one of them counts. It makes more sense to count Aaron than Ben.



On another note, interesting that Juliette is "the other woman" past and present.

Okay, timekeepers (Jeff125), how long between Jack telling Kate he loves her and him kissing Juliette? A couple days tops?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> Best. Ending. _EVAR._


I actually laughed out loud at that ending. It was perfect!

I also loved the opening scene - they had me fooled!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

michad said:


> So the captain on the boat is...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Did I miss something? They never showed him saying anything about this, did they? I think everyone speculates that it is though. I would be more surprised if he is NOT the informant, the way he told Locke to have a seat before he told him.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

MickeS said:


> I also loved the opening scene - they had me fooled!


 Yes, very well played.


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## bpurcell (Mar 16, 2005)

MickeS said:


> Did I miss something? They never showed him saying anything about this, did they? I think everyone speculates that it is though. I would be more surprised if he is NOT the informant, the way he told Locke to have a seat before he told him.


No, you didn't miss anything. He's just going along with conventional wisdom on the identity of the mole, but I doubt the captain and the mole are the same. For me, if it's not the conventional wisdom person next week, that's the only chance for me to be surprised.

I wasn't enjoying this episode very much. The backstory of Julliette's love life just didn't interest me and didn't move the plot forward at all. If Ben was that revenge thinking, what did the other guy do to deserve being killed?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MitchO said:


> God, I hate Jack. He looks at every single woman with puppy dog eyes. He switched emotionally from Juliet to Kate to Juliet faster than most people flick the TV channel.


Anything that gets him away from that wishy-washy murderess Kate.
Too bad she couldn't have walked out in time to see them kissing.



mqpickles said:


> Preview spoiler:
> 
> Okay, timekeepers (Jeff125), how long between Jack telling Kate he loves her and him kissing Juliette? A couple days tops?


I guess Jack figures that he might as well cut his losses and go with the sure thing.



bpurcell said:


> If Ben was that revenge thinking, what did the other guy do to deserve being killed?


He took what Ben considers his. I don't know if you've noticed this or not but this Ben fellow?
He's a tad amoral and crazy.

I had long suspected that Ben had a thing for Juliette. Now it's confirmed.
This also helps explains why Juliette wanted Jack to kill Ben.

One thing though. Where did Charlotte get the gun?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> At first I thought that Goodwin's wife was dead and/or appearing like Walt did, especially after we heard all the whispering. But I doubt that if it was supernatural in any way they wouldn't have let us know in this episode. It's just not the usual m.o.


I still think Harper is dead. The way she appeared and then disappeared was too much like Walt/Christian. In fact, as the flashback story progressed, I thought for sure we were going to find out that Harper became pregnant and Juliet couldn't save her.

Preview:


Spoiler



It says we'll see a face we never thought we'd see again. Are most people guessing that's Michael? I wondered if maybe it's Naomi, since people have speculated that the voice on the other end of the sat phone sounded just like her, and because of the way they focused on her face several times after she was dead.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

Shaunnick said:


> Best. Ending. _EVAR._


Nah.



jeff125va said:


> I guess on obvious question is whether Penny and her father are cooperating in any way trying to find the island. Given Charles' feelings about Desmond, it doesn't seem like he'd care very much about rescuing him. I guess he could be doing it for his daughter. It's not like we can really trust what Ben said about his motives. I wouldn't be surprised if they both have no idea what the other is doing. It's hard to tell how close they are. I don't recall ever seeing the two of them together. It's always her and Desmond or him and Desmond.


He's not trying to find the island to save Desmond.



Mike Farrington said:


> I took Harper's appearance to be the whispers finally revealing themselves for once. I thought it was quite a big deal.


What do you mean?



mqpickles said:


> Okay, timekeepers (Jeff125), how long between Jack telling Kate he loves her and him kissing Juliette? A couple days tops?


Big Love, island style. It was Juliette's day.



DevdogAZ said:


> Preview:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



I'm guessing they're stretching that 'never thought we'd see again' to mean Michael, but I don't know anyone who wasn't expecting to see Michael again. Hopefully it will be someone else.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cindy1230 said:


> :up: Hilarious! I had to pause cause I was laughing so hard. Ben had a lot of great one liners this episode.


Indeed.

But the thing that interested me is how much smarter than Locke Ben is, and how much that is starting to bother Locke. When Locke would try to walk out the door and Ben would make a cryptic comment, you could almost hear the wheels creaking in Locke's head--"He's playing games with me, don't fall for it, oh hell, I can't help myself," and he goes back in like a puppet on a string. If Locke loses sight of the fact that it's not his brains that got him this far, he could easily be goaded into making stupid, rash decisions--which obviously is what Ben is trying to provoke.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

So I thought some of what happened inside the Tempest seemed to be an homage to the first Alien movie. The first thing I noticed was the voice of the computer... it just sounded so familiar. Then the "Manual Override has been blah blah blah", along with the hissing coming out of the pipes. Just seemed so "Alien".


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## Indiana627 (Jan 24, 2003)

betts4 said:


> Best line of the ep -
> "It's stressful being an other"


I totally agree. There were a lot of good lines as already mentioned. Ben's question about the rabbit he was about to eat having a number on it was almost as good.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Indiana627 said:


> I totally agree. There were a lot of good lines as already mentioned. Ben's question about the rabbit he was about to eat having a number on it was almost as good.


The episode was written by Drew Goddard, who coincidentally also wrote this week's issue of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8 comic book--which also features a ton of great lines, most of them during a hilarious post-coital scene.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

betts4 said:


> That knock upside the head that Kate got from Charlotte was just plain cold. Ouch.


Kate was stupid for turning her back on someone she doesn't trust who also happens to have a gun.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> Preview spoiler:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That may not be true



Spoiler



I think that next week is a Jin/Sun episode. It could be that both of them are part of the O6. Not ruling out your theory, but we will have to wait and see.


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## TheGreyOwl (Aug 18, 2003)

My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

TheGreyOwl said:


> My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.


It's impossible for it to be Sayid, unless there is some stupid time travel plot that will make me stop watching the show.

It's Michael. Harold Perrinaeu has been in the credits since the beginning of the season. It's about time that he shows up.

On a separate note, I didn't get it at the time, but I now agree that the Harper who appeared to Juliet wasn't Harper at all, but the Smoke Monster taking her form. The whispering before and after, and her ability to vanish into thin air is pretty strong evidence of that.


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

Mike Farrington said:


> No, I don't think so. It looks like they re-shot the barracks scene to include her. Notice how the actor that plays Ethan Rom wasn't there for this re-shooting of the scene. Sure, they could have spliced in footage, but then they would have had to pay him.


I wouldn't say they reshot the barracks scene, just added a few shots of Juliet and Goodwin and Harper looking at each other. The rest that we recognize was recycled.

KD


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But the thing that interested me is how much smarter than Locke Ben is, and how much that is starting to bother Locke. When Locke would try to walk out the door and Ben would make a cryptic comment, you could almost hear the wheels creaking in Locke's head--"He's playing games with me, don't fall for it, oh hell, I can't help myself," and he goes back in like a puppet on a string. If Locke loses sight of the fact that it's not his brains that got him this far, he could easily be goaded into making stupid, rash decisions--which obviously is what Ben is trying to provoke.


My thoughts as well. Locke just can't help himself. The interactions are very well written and Ben's character well developed and acted.

An example of weaker writing and character development is Jack blithely switching from Kate to Juliette in picoseconds. On second thought, cancel that...it's a target rich environment and Jack is a male. 
Me, I'd take that murderess Kate if forced to choose.


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## super dave (Oct 1, 2002)

How many episodes are left? Too many questions, again, with few answers. Argh!


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

we got 'paulo and nikki'd' last night.. i thought the producers said they learned their lesson on that and wouldn't try it again (inserting new characters into previous scenes like they were always there).. ben asking if the rabbit having a number was the best line of the episode, but it was still pretty weak compared to recent episodes


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

super dave said:


> How many episodes are left? Too many questions, again, with few answers. Argh!


Admitedly, last night's might well be the weakest episode this brief season but there was some snappy funny dialog. Overall a well-spent too-brief hour of TV. The only TV series I've watched since mid Jan.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Roadblock said:


> He's not trying to find the island to save Desmond.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I wrote all that having forgotten about what Minkowski said about not being allowed to answer the phone if it was Penny. I should have edited that whole post to say "duh."


Spoiler



I agree that they're overstating it, but in my mind that pretty much confirms it. Maybe just because I've been speculating that it will be Michael, because it makes sense since he had sent him in the same general direction.





RBlount said:


> That may not be true
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I agree. That would make sense since they said we'll find out "the rest" or the O6 and we presumably know 4, if we don't count Aaron. And they were featured in the previews.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

c'mon people....do we really need to spoilerize who we think Ben is talking about on the boat? That's just silly. It's all speculation.....


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

What's the big deal about Jack having a thing for both Kate & Juliette? I don't see this as an issue. I am sure everyone has had a time when they were torn between two people...and I think it's just multiplied by being in such a stressful situation they are in.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mqpickles said:


> Preview spoiler:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think there are often parallels between the present events and the flashbacks/forwards. Speaking of that, did anyone fall for their attempt to make us think that it was a flashforward and that Juliet was one of the O6? The stuff about being treated like a celebrity, etc.? I didn't, but my son started saying ooh she's one of the Oceanic Six.

That was Dec. 23, this episode was Dec. 27. But he also kissed Juliet just a few minutes before he told her that (in TTLG). But I agree with JYoung. I don't think Jack is being pathetic in this regard. Why waste his time with Kate when she can't make up her mind between him and Sawyer. And Juliet in that wet t-shirt would have helped make up my mind. 



Spoiler



We could be finding out #5 _and_ #6. See some of the other spoilerized posts about Sun and Jin speculation



Speaking of dates, we really didn't get any new information regarding the apparent date discrepancy we discussed in last week's thread.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

robbhimself said:


> we got 'paulo and nikki'd' last night..(inserting new characters into previous scenes like they were always there)..


Yes we did. So very annoying. This whole episode was a collection of things I hate about Lost (my favorite show)--primarily having the main tension rest on the refusal of characters to communicate with each other



scottykempf said:


> Kate was stupid for turning her back on someone she doesn't trust who also happens to have a gun.


So unlike the wily Kate. But, a mediocre writer should never let character stand in the way of cliché.

I really can't stand the Charlotte character. Or maybe the actress. Probably both. Honestly, either Kate or Juliette should have put a bullet in her head.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

pmyers said:


> c'mon people....do we really need to spoilerize who we think Ben is talking about on the boat? That's just silly. It's all speculation.....


I only spoilerized mine because I referred to stuff in the previews.

But ignoring the previews, I think and have thought that it's Michael. Ben had sent him off in pretty much the same direction (I think it was a different bearing than the helicopter used, but they left from a different spot on the island. Or the ship had moved perhaps. How long did they say they'd been there? And I do think what Ben said to Locke would fit with it being Michael.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

robbhimself said:


> And Juliet in that wet t-shirt...


...running. Oh, my... I had to pause the show to go get my head straight. I'm kidding, but not really.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Yes we did. So very annoying. This whole episode was a collection of things I hate about Lost (my favorite show)--primarily having the main tension rest on the refusal of characters to communicate with each other


I sort of agree about the non-communication, especially about Faraday and Charlotte. But I think that Juliet would have tried even harder to stop them if she'd been able to confront them well before they'd gotten to the Tempest. I think their seeming lack of concern about putting their gas masks back on convinced her (along with her knowing what a liar Ben is) that they were telling the truth. So their secrecy was sort of justified.

I was also thinking what a difference it would make if Locke mentioned to Desmond what he knows about Charles Widmore. But it doesn't seem that that will happen any time soon.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I really can't stand the Charlotte character. Or maybe the actress. Probably both. Honestly, either Kate or Juliette should have put a bullet in her head.


Agreed, but I'm working really hard to overcome my antipathy to the Brits after that 1776 and 1812 thing.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

A couple thoughts struck me when Goodwin's wife "appeared" to Juliette in the middle of the jungle, in the rain.

First thing I thought was, she's not "real". After all, where did she come from? Where has she been? Wandering around in the jungle all these days? And now, in the rain?

Oddly, Juliette started a dialog with her. If I was Juliette, the first words out of my mouth would have been, "What the (expletive deleted), where the (expletive deleted) did you come from? What are you doing out here in the rain?" But oddly, Juliette just started talking to her as if she'd popped over from next door to borrow a cup of sugar.

Then, strangely, Jack walked up. I thought, OK, Jack's going to look at Juliette and say, "uh, are you nuts? who are you talking to?" But Jack could see Goodwin's wife also.

Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?

And of course, are these tied to the "smoke monster"? It's beginning to seem to me that the smoke/whispers somehow could coincide with the appearance of some living being in the middle of nowhere.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

TiVotion said:


> Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?


Sayid saw Walt when Shannon did, but he didn't say anything until later when she asked him. Or he asked her or something like that. And they did not both talk to him. And Walt was talking backwards.

My guess is that either we'll find out that she's dead and Juliet just isn't easily spooked, or that Ben just sort of had her waiting in the wings because I'd be surprised if he's been able to make contact with her while locked up. Of course, there could be more secret passages in the barracks. I doubt that she's helping Ben out of loyalty - it would have to either be fear of Ben or fear of being poison gassed.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

TheGreyOwl said:


> My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid.


My one friend thinks that too.

I think it's the guy who's been in the credits for the past 6 episodes and hasn't shown up yet


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## michad (Sep 9, 2002)

Since speculation doesnt have to be spoilerized, what if Jacob is on the boat. Might explain why Locke couldnt find him and why Ben would have him sit down before telling him.


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## bpurcell (Mar 16, 2005)

JYoung said:


> Bpurcell said:
> 
> 
> > If Ben was that revenge thinking, what did the other guy do to deserve being killed?
> ...


Actually, I was referring to Ethan, not Goodwin. It was late last night, and I couldn't remember the names. I was also too lazy to head over to lostpedia to find out. So my question is if Ben was so revenge thinking to send Goodwin, what particular ill did Ethan do to deserve death as well?


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bpurcell said:


> Actually, I was referring to Ethan, not Goodwin. It was late last night, and I couldn't remember the names. I was also too lazy to head over to lostpedia to find out. So my question is if Ben was so revenge thinking to send Goodwin, what particular ill did Ethan do to deserve death as well?


I think the point was that Goodwin was the first person he sent out. I don't think we can assume that he thought they would all be killed.

It would be interesting to go back and watch the previous episodes where he referred to Ethan and Goodwin's deaths. I think he mentioned Ethan's once when he was talking to Jack or someone about the back surgery and said that they had killed their only other surgeon. I wonder if his tone or expression would have given anything away. I can't recall any specific occasions where he'd mentioned Goodwin though.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?


Kate and Sawyer both saw the horse.


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> I think the point was that Goodwin was the first person he sent out. I don't think we can assume that he thought they would all be killed.
> 
> It would be interesting to go back and watch the previous episodes where he referred to Ethan and Goodwin's deaths. I think he mentioned Ethan's once when he was talking to Jack or someone about the back surgery and said that they had killed their only other surgeon. I wonder if his tone or expression would have given anything away. I can't recall any specific occasions where he'd mentioned Goodwin though.


In retrospect, why did Ben send his surgeon and power station manager instead of a couple of his "marines".


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Mike Farrington said:


> In retrospect, why did Ben send his surgeon and power station manager instead of a couple of his "marines".


Well, we know why he sent his power station manager. Maybe with Ethan it was more about blending in?


----------



## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

Is anyone else wondering where the rest of the "others" are at? We really haven't seen them since last season. Are they on island #2?


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

They sure do seem to be telegraphing things to make it look like Michael is the man on the boat, so I'm gonna throw out another possibility: Walt. Ben had Walt for a long time and could easily have indoctrinated him into the ways of the Others. To me, this is the only thing that would make sense and still be surprising (Michael also makes sense, but would only be surprising to the most casual of "Lost" viewers).


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

packerfan said:


> Is anyone else wondering where the rest of the "others" are at? We really haven't seen them since last season. Are they on island #2?


They went to the Temple, which we know nothing about. Yes it was last season but it's only been four days on the island.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

packerfan said:


> Is anyone else wondering where the rest of the "others" are at? We really haven't seen them since last season. Are they on island #2?


I was thinking about this last night. I have a feeling Richard and the others (pun intended) will come back in before too long.


----------



## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Lost: "Another Soap Opera Episode"


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

3D said:


> They sure do seem to be telegraphing things to make it look like Michael is the man on the boat, so I'm gonna throw out another possibility: Walt. Ben had Walt for a long time and could easily have indoctrinated him into the ways of the Others. To me, this is the only thing that would make sense and still be surprising (Michael also makes sense, but would only be surprising to the most casual of "Lost" viewers).


But he apparently didn't, unless Walt had completely turned on his father and was putting on an act when they let them reunite in the tent. But yes, it would be more surprising. And based on what Walt said to Locke, he apparently believes that the people on the ship have bad intentions for all of them (not just Ben).


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

May I just say that even though I wasn't able to watch last night, I'm enjoying reading the natives discuss? 

Greg


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

According to Ben, Widmore is trying to find the island to exploit it.

And it is reasonable that Widmore found out about the island through the Black Rock 
Journal.

I remember seeing "Widmore Industries" somewhere on the island in a previous episode. Was it when they found the real Henry Gale? Wasn't Widmore the maker of the parachute?

If so, that would mean Widmore has been trying to get to the island for some time now.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

robbhimself said:


> we got 'paulo and nikki'd' last night.. i thought the producers said they learned their lesson on that and wouldn't try it again (inserting new characters into previous scenes like they were always there).. ben asking if the rabbit having a number was the best line of the episode, but it was still pretty weak compared to recent episodes


I don't think we got "Paulo and Nikki'd" at all. Are you trying to say that Juliet wasn't present the first time they showed us the barracks scene? Of course she was, because they had all just been at book club in her house. The fact that they showed us one scene with her looking at Goodwin doesn't mean they revised history.


pmyers said:


> c'mon people....do we really need to spoilerize who we think Ben is talking about on the boat? That's just silly. It's all speculation.....


Mine was spoilerized because it was specifically talking about the wording in the preview.


TiVotion said:


> Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?


Interesting that you remembered the horse but didn't remember the scene where both Kate and Sawyer saw it at the same time (already pointed out by MickeS).


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> At first I thought that Goodwin's wife was dead and/or appearing like Walt did, especially after we heard all the whispering. But I doubt that if it was supernatural in any way they wouldn't have let us know in this episode. It's just not the usual m.o.


I think that the smoke monster, walt, Goodwin's wife, etc are all some sort of illusion/hologram "thing" that Ben and his people can conjure up by somehow tapping into the time-shifting power surrounding the island.

That made no sense, did it?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Donbadabon said:


> According to Ben, Widmore is trying to find the island to exploit it.
> 
> And it is reasonable that Widmore found out about the island through the Black Rock
> Journal.
> ...


I think Widmore knew about the island long before buying the journal. I think that was the reason he was there buying that item, because he already knew that it likely contained valuable info about the island.

I'm pretty sure that when we saw a pregnancy test quite a while ago, it said Widmore Industries on it.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

stevieleej said:


> Michael is the easy choice for being on the boat. Just capture Walt again and tell Michael he has to help you to get Walt back.
> 
> But he wouldn't be the fun choice. If it were someone like Boone, Locke would be floored *since he and Boone were so close.*


Yeah, that would be one reason. I think it would have more to do with Boone being dead, though.

I agree, Michael is starting to seem too obvious. But I still think it's someone who is still alive.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Me, I'd take that murderess Kate if forced to choose.


Let's see if you feel the same way after she gets you worked up and then goes and jumps in the sack with someone else.



jeff125va said:


> I was also thinking what a difference it would make if Locke mentioned to Desmond what he knows about Charles Widmore. But it doesn't seem that that will happen any time soon.


With Desmond on the boat and Locke at the compound, that would be difficult.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think Widmore knew about the island long before buying the journal.


I was assuming Widmore was looking to find the Black Rock, and was going to use the journal to help locate it. And then found out about the island from the journal.

Could go either way. Unless they've said something that I missed.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think Widmore knew about the island long before buying the journal. I think that was the reason he was there buying that item, because he already knew that it likely contained valuable info about the island.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that when we saw a pregnancy test quite a while ago, it said Widmore Industries on it.


Right, Widmore Labs manufactured both the balloon and the pregnancy test.

And yes, I doubt it's a coincidence that he's interested in the Black Rock. I'm starting to wonder if the Black Rock being so far inland has something to do with time/space discontinuity. Could it have appeared there like the rabbit in the Orchid film? I guess it could easily be a much simpler explanation, like some sort of flood or tsunami type event.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> Obviously Ben is not a Sox fan:
> 
> "I taped over it."
> 
> With all of his resources, he couldn't afford to buy a new VHS tape?





reddice said:


> Looking at the tape it did not look like a VHS. Maybe Betamax. Could not really see it since I am watching it on a crappy analog TV, feed.


It was a u-matic 3/4" tape.

I don't think he could have gotten more than 75-90 minutes of a game on it. I assume it was a World Series game (3+ hours). Probably the last game. Could be a highlight reel.

Did we see Ben watching this tape earlier? Jack saw it right?

If so, this tape of Widmore would be recorded between late October and "the present"? This would not be an original recording. It would have to have been either dubbed and sent to him or transmitted to him and recorded during transmission.

Don't know if any of this has meaning. Just some thoughts.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

JYoung said:


> With Desmond on the boat and Locke at the compound, that would be difficult.


Well that was my point. I.e., at least there's a clear reason for their lack of communication. But I wonder if Desmond would be suspicious of Widmore's intentions or just think that he's helping Penny? I guess since he knows that Minkowski wasn't supposed to answer the phone if it was Penny, he'd figure it out.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

teknikel said:


> It was a u-matic 3/4" tape.
> 
> I don't think he could have gotten more than 75-90 minutes of a game on it. I assume it was a World Series game (3+ hours). Probably the last game. Could be a highlight reel.
> 
> ...


All we ever really saw was the last pitch, IIRC.

Well, all that tells us is when Ben put the recording on that particular tape. I don't think it gives us any clue whatsoever as to when the camera originally recorded it.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> I agree, Michael is starting to seem too obvious.


Sometimes "obvious" is just good storytelling.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Donbadabon said:


> According to Ben...


Well, once you've typed that, anything that follows might as well be random keystrokes...


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Could Ben be the actual spy on the ship? Could he be in some time loop like Desmond was? Perhaps that's why Ben always seems to know stuff he has no way of knowing......whoa.....I think I just blew my own mind. haha


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Could Ben be the actual spy on the ship? Could he be in some time loop like Desmond was? Perhaps that's why Ben always seems to know stuff he has no way of knowing......whoa.....I think I just blew my own mind. haha


Hmmmmmm........that is a very interesting theory!


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

pmyers said:


> Could Ben be the actual spy on the ship? Could he be in some time loop like Desmond was? Perhaps that's why Ben always seems to know stuff he has no way of knowing......whoa.....I think I just blew my own mind. haha


I've thought that at times too. What if been has/had mastered the time-travel stuff? Not the consciousness time-travel as depicted by Desmond and Eloise, but the physical time-travel demonstrated on the Orchid orientation video. That would be wild.


----------



## HoosierFan (May 8, 2001)

But if that is what Ben told Locke, he wouldn't be walking around free. Locke wouldn't have believed him, and thought he was nuts.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

HoosierFan said:


> But if that is what Ben told Locke, he wouldn't be walking around free. Locke wouldn't have believed him, and thought he was nuts.


I was thinking that Ben must have done more than just told him who his man was. He could have just made up anyone. I think Locke would have required some sort of proof, or at least strong evidence. I mean the guy just shot him and left him for dead a couple days ago.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Mike Farrington said:


> And, was it just me, or were there far more commercials than normal in this episode? Perhaps this was due to the writers strike? Maybe there was no b-camera beachfront dialog written, just the main storyline. I would imagine that the meat of the episodes are written first, then the inconsequential yet humorous Losties banter is written as needed?


I thought that they already had 8 episodes completed before the writer's strike.


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

Well, if you follow the logic that because he sent Goodwin out on the mission with the intent of getting him killed, he also intended for Ethan to be killed eventually, it could be because Ethan's death makes Juliet that much more invaluable to the Others, giving her more of a reason to stay.


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

I liked this episode, while I agree with the general consensus that it was kind of slow and not as "gee-whiz" as the earlier episodes. We gotta slow down and catch our breath sometimes.  

That is not to say that this episode wasn't revealing. A few thoughts:

- I am convinced (as my wife is, too) that Harper isn't real. Or at least post-Other appearance. Her showing up in the middle of the rainstorm (remember the rain is always a foreshadowing of something "magical" happening) AND the voices AND her disappearing immediately lend credence to the fact that she could be an apparition like Dave, Eko's brother, Kate's horse(? - this was never confirmed either way). Why does Harper have to be not real? Other than the clues I listed above, the biggest one is that Juliet was right: there's no way that Ben would know what's going on when it's going on. C'mon, do you think he knew the EXACT minute that Farady and Charlotte left the beach to go to the Tempest while being locked up in his own basement by Locke?

- Which leads me to the possible clue that there's may be more than one spiritual/otherworldly island factions that are running around the island, one good, the other bad. Or even more chilling, is there just the bad? Does the Bad Island Faction via the Smoke Monster want to get rid of the people who are living there by goading Juliet into killing Charlotte and Faraday, knowing that with their demise, the gas can be used to kill everybody else? Remember even Ben and the Others don't know what the Smoke Monster is, just how to repel it.

- Or is it, like some people have mentioned here, a clue into the ability for the Others to remote view and communicate via long distances from a different spot? (I remain a skeptic of this one.)

- It makes sense that Jack has chosen Juliet. He told Kate that he loved her, but she still went off with Sawyer. Having been burned by Kate, of course, he's going to go to the other available girl who likes him. There's no leap of logic really required here like some people are saying. In this messy love quadrangle, Kate is now going to have to deal with the consequences of Jack's choice.

- Michael Emerson must be LOVING Ben because this is a complex, plum role that doesn't come very often. This show, while Juliet-centric, was also very much Ben-centric, showing him as a seriously petty, possessive, and angry man. It's obvious (as Goodwin said) that Juliet reminds Ben of his young child love. We get to see Goodwin a little bit fleshed out and why Goodwin was chosen to go on his mission. I love how LOST can continue to flesh out secondary characters even though they're dead.

- We also find out that the Tailie kids haven't been forgotten and that they were abducted due to being on "a list." This was done and said in a passing scene, so this was another clue being planted.

- We didn't get "Paulo and Nikki'd" as someone said here. I was in the minority that loved that episode and how it worked as a great, self-aware standalone episode. Here, rather than use the device of re-staging a scene to wink at the audience, they used it to add extra details and gravitas of what that scene meant in Juliet's life.

- And that scene when Elizabeth Mitchell comes out of the water? Hubba, hubba. 

- I, also, was tricked in the beginning, especially by the "celebrity" line. Well played, guys, well played. Plus, it was nice to see Mr. Friendly again.

- This episode FINALLY plays the Widmore card and ties him and his company into the island intrigue. We know what an ass he is from previous episodes and seeing that tape didn't help either. What is his ultimate goal? Is it profit, like Ben suggested, or something else? In playing this card, they've effectively anchored Desmond even deeper in the meta-story.

- Back to Ben. The genius of this episode was in the beginning and in the reveal of Widmore, you start to feel like you can trust him again, and then at the end, when we discover Charlotte and Faraday's true end game and seeing how petty he was with Juliet, the rug was pulled out of us once again. Ben's like the boyfriend that promises us he'll change and we keep going back to him for whatever reason and he keeps betraying us time and time again and yet, we keep going back to him!

- Finally, this episode was full of hilarious one-liners. Like Rob, I also attribute it to Drew Goddard. I've liked that man since Buffy.
- "Did that rabbit have a number on it?"
- "I taped over the game."
- "It's stressful being an Other."
- "I'll take their word for it."
- "What ARE you doing out?" "I'll see you guys at dinner."  Great ending.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

TheGreyOwl said:


> My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.


As I understood it, it was Ben's "man on the boat" who revealed to him the identities and mission of the crew who had come for Ben.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

HoosierFan said:


> But if that is what Ben told Locke, he wouldn't be walking around free. Locke wouldn't have believed him, and thought he was nuts.


Locke likes to be duped, if it means it makes him feel important. This has been shown over and over. Ben is a master of manipulation. It would be easy for Ben to convince Locke to free him, IMO.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I agree, Michael is starting to seem too obvious. But I still think it's someone who is still alive.


To those who waste too much time hanging around these forums, he is a bit obvious. But not only do we do frame-by-frame analysis, we read the credits looking for clues, listen to Podcasts, etc.

The average viewer would be floored. Michael left a couple seasons ago. He & Walt are history. If either are on the freighter, it will be a jaw-droppin' moment for 80% of the viewers.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

pmyers said:


> Could Ben be the actual spy on the ship? Could he be in some time loop like Desmond was? Perhaps that's why Ben always seems to know stuff he has no way of knowing......whoa.....I think I just blew my own mind. haha


I had a similar thought in that someone in Ben's group could be like Desmond.
A bit unstuck in time and can get flashes of the future.

Could this person be Harper?

Can Harper project like Walt?


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

tewcewl said:


> It's obvious (as Goodwin said) that Juliet reminds Ben of his young child love.


Well it's never safe to assume anything, but it does kind of confirm that Annie is long gone. Not that I was biting my nails to get an answer to this one. 
She could have either died in the purge or maybe Ben got her pregnant and she died then.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

I don't understand why people here keep speculating that some people who were never listed on the Oceanic 815 mainfest could be included as a member of the Oceanic 6.  It seems to me that if you arrived at the island in utero, or via submarine, or yacht, or freighter, then you were not included on the Flight 815 manifest and are therefore disqualified from membership in the "Oceanic 6".

Of course, since they had revealed that Aaron is, in fact, with Kate when they get off the island, I might be wrong.

But I don't think I am.

Also, the whole communication thing. Faraday and Lewis didn't need to create the feelings of distrust and paranoia if they were just open and honest from the beginning. 

Oh well -- dramatic tension.

And Locke and Ben ... if Locke just kept Ben gagged, and brought him food which had been run through a blender, then Ben could just drink his food through a straw and Locke wouldn't be susceptible to Ben's mind games.

I was half-expecting (during scenes at Locke's camp) to hear a distant explosion indicating that Miles couldn't keep that grenade in his mouth for that long.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

One thing that has always disturbed me about the scene of the plane in the air and breaking up is that the sections take a "Y" trajectory, where the tail goes to the right and the fuselage goes to the left of the original path.

It just seems logical to me that they should have continued along a straight-ahead path, with the tail section hitting land sooner due to wind resistance and no engines, while the fuselage would drop further along the same straight-ahead path.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

getreal said:


> I don't understand why people here keep speculating that some people who were never listed on the Oceanic 815 mainfest could be included as a member of the Oceanic 6.  It seems to me that if you arrived at the island in utero, or via submarine, or yacht, or freighter, then you were not included on the Flight 815 manifest and are therefore disqualified from membership in the "Oceanic 6".
> 
> Of course, since they had revealed that Aaron is, in fact, with Kate when they get off the island, I might be wrong.
> 
> But I don't think I am...


Disqualified from membership? I never got the impression that this was a group with formal by-laws defining the qualifications for membership. And if it were, I'm not sure why they'd exclude in-utero travelers.

Not that I think Aaron is one of the Six, but we really don't know who coined the phrase or a lot of other things for that matter. I happen to think all 6 were passengers on the flight, but I don't think other speculation is unreasonable. If five of them were on the plane and one wasn't, I don't think a title like "The five people who were on Oceanic 815 and one other person who just happened to be on the island where they crashed and came back with them" would be quite as catchy.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I agree, Michael is starting to seem too obvious. But I still think it's someone who is still alive.


Michael is supposed to be dead? I thought he left the island on a boat with Walt?

Yes, to me it's obvious that it's Michael. But I don't think it would be so obvious if Harold's name hasn't continually been in the credits.


----------



## Rakim (Dec 26, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> Disqualified from membership? I never got the impression that this was a group with formal by-laws defining the qualifications for membership. And if it were, I'm not sure why they'd exclude in-utero travelers.


Actually, there ARE qualifications for membership, if you believe Henry Ian Cusick:



Spoiler



Q: We are learning one by one who make up the Oceanic Six, so far revealed to be Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Kate and maybe (the show's not confirming) baby Aaron. Since Desmond was never on Flight 815, can we assume he does not turn out to be one of the six?

A: That's what all of us were trying to figure out when we were receiving the scripts. I think it suddenly dawned on us that you had to be an original passenger on the plane that went down to be an Oceanic Six.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Jeeters said:


> Michael is supposed to be dead? I thought he left the island on a boat with Walt?
> 
> Yes, to me it's obvious that it's Michael. But I don't think it would be so obvious if Harold's name hasn't continually been in the credits.


I was referring to the other people mentioned in the posts I was responding to. In other words, it might not be Michael, but it definitely isn't Boone, Eko, Libby or Ana-Lucia.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

getreal said:


> One thing that has always disturbed me about the scene of the plane in the air and breaking up is that the sections take a "Y" trajectory, where the tail goes to the right and the fuselage goes to the left of the original path.
> 
> It just seems logical to me that they should have continued along a straight-ahead path, with the tail section hitting land sooner due to wind resistance and no engines, while the fuselage would drop further along the same straight-ahead path.


As a science guy I recognize and acknowlege that LOST pays lip service only to the Laws of Physics as we currently understand them. They love the buzz words but don't grok the content. Let it go.


----------



## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

this show is reminding me more and more of playing Myst or Riven. Especially when Juliette walks to the "Tempest" (and why the hell would they name it that ?) and stands there for a second trying to figure out how to open the door when the control panel is broken. Oh ! Look ! All I have to do is pull this counterweight and the giant door will open ! But then, how did the others get inside and *then* smash the panel and close the door ? Are counterweights on both sides ?


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

stevieleej said:


> If the writers really want a shocking moment when revealing Ben's 'man on the boat', instead of him being Michael (who we'd all expect), make it Eko, Boone, Ana-Lucia or Libby (who I always thought was an Other).





Spoiler



Libby was supposed to re-appear this season (no idea in what regard) but her appearance will likely be cut to the writer's strike... both because of an actor conflict and that episode be cut / changed to fit in the abbreviated schedule.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Rakim said:


> Actually, there ARE qualifications for membership, if you believe Henry Ian Cusick:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



It sounds like he's inferring that based on his knowledge of who they are from reading the scripts. And by saying that "it dawned on [them]", he might be implying only that it just happens to turn out that they all were on the plane. Unless, of course, he means that there are some people who do get rescued with them who weren't on the plane and aren't part of "The Six." It could be that Aaron isn't counted simply because he's a baby, who knows? In any case, based on what we know at this point just as viewers, other speculation is still reasonable.


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

getreal said:


> One thing that has always disturbed me about the scene of the plane in the air and breaking up is that the sections take a "Y" trajectory, where the tail goes to the right and the fuselage goes to the left of the original path.
> 
> It just seems logical to me that they should have continued along a straight-ahead path, with the tail section hitting land sooner due to wind resistance and no engines, while the fuselage would drop further along the same straight-ahead path.


It's entirely possible for two pieces of an aircraft to go in quite different trajectories/vectors. Both pieces were of differing masses with differing airfoils attached. In a real life incident, I would have been surprised if they had landed in the same place. We don't know the altitude of the incident, or what external forces were acting on the fuselage (i.e., what exactly ripped the aircraft apart).

Since it's a fictional incident for dramatic effect, it makes no difference. It did what it did.

Mike
(long-time aviation enthusiast)


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

tem said:


> ... the "Tempest" (and why the hell would they name it that ?) ...


Do you mean the characters or the writers? If the writers, it's a Shakespearean reference. It's about a man (Prospero) and his daughter who have been stranded on an island with mystical powers for 12 years. Then his brother, who had basically exiled him to the island, passes by on a ship that Prospero causes to run aground by creating a storm.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Mike Farrington said:


> I've thought that at times too. What if been has/had mastered the time-travel stuff? Not the consciousness time-travel as depicted by Desmond and Eloise, but the physical time-travel demonstrated on the Orchid orientation video. That would be wild.


Can someone remind me what / when the Orchid video was?



getreal said:


> I thought that they already had 8 episodes completed before the writer's strike.


They did. And even if they hadn't, they don't write shorter shows and put in more commercials. (as the OP suggested) No show did that before or during the strike and won't afterwards.



getreal said:


> As I understood it, it was Ben's "man on the boat" who revealed to him the identities and mission of the crew who had come for Ben.


So the "man on the boat" probably told Ben about the plan to go to the Tempest. But did that mean Ben must have learned that back when he was still at the Others camp (last season). But did he know that the freighter was there at that point? Well, I guess if he didn't know from the Losties, he could have had his own ways of knowing.

Last night I assumed that Harper was some smoke-monster-type thing controlled by Ben (previously arranged?) and not real.

But now I'm leaning towards nothing more than Ben learned about the plan to go to the Tempest back last season from his boat-mole, and instructed Harper (real-life, physical Harper... maybe or maybe not using some sort of mystical travel method to appear and disappear) to get Juliette to stop them.

But wait, why couldn't Ben just have Harper stop them instead?

I'm confusing myself 



astrohip said:


> The average viewer would be floored. Michael left a couple seasons ago. He & Walt are history. If either are on the freighter, it will be a jaw-droppin' moment for 80% of the viewers.


The average viewer... who doesn't read the credits. (which, admittingly, is probably not the average viewer)


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> The average viewer... who doesn't read the credits. (which, admittingly, is probably not the average viewer)


The average viewer HATES credits and avoids them. Not only that, but the average viewer doesn't care who the people are other than one or two who he really likes.

When was the last time you stayed for all the credits at a movie?

OK, you were sitting there with me, but how many people did you see get up and leave as they started? 

Greg


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

tem said:


> Especially when Juliette walks to the "Tempest" (and why the hell would they name it that ?)


I'm guessing it's a reference to the Shakespeare play:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tempest#Synopsis

"The play opens as Prospero, having divined that his brother, Antonio, is on a ship passing close by the island (having returned from the nuptials of Alonso's daughter Claribel with the King of Tunis), has raised a storm (the tempest of the title) which causes the ship to run aground."


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

cwoody222 said:


> Can someone remind me what / when the Orchid video was?


It was an extra on the Season 3 DVD. It has never aired. It is said to provide some insight into Season 4. It can be found on YouTube. Just search for "lost orchid".


----------



## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

With Ben's "you'll need to sit down" comment I said to my wife that Sayid may be his man on the boat. I just didn't see Michael as being a "sit down" revelation. Then I realized that the character of Locke doesn't read the credits and wouldn't know that Harold P. is coming back this season, so it may be a bigger shock for him


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

TheGreyOwl said:


> My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.


Ah, but we know that the people on the boat are looking for Ben. I've heard of hiding in plain site, but that's a bit much. 



tewcewl said:


> Back to Ben. The genius of this episode was in the beginning and in the reveal of Widmore, you start to feel like you can trust him again, and then at the end, when we discover Charlotte and Faraday's true end game and seeing how petty he was with Juliet, the rug was pulled out of us once again. Ben's like the boyfriend that promises us he'll change and we keep going back to him for whatever reason and he keeps betraying us time and time again and yet, we keep going back to him!


My guess is that Charlotte and Faraday actually believe that they were supposed to deactivate the station for the exact reason that they gave (so that Ben could not use the gas to kill everyone). However, they only believe that because they are being lied to by whomever is running the Freighter operation. I think that Ben wants them stopped because he might have the need to use the gas to defend the Island from Widmore. For now, a partiularly integral weapon in his arsenal has been dismantled.



gchance said:


> The average viewer HATES credits and avoids them. Not only that, but the average viewer doesn't care who the people are other than one or two who he really likes.
> 
> When was the last time you stayed for all the credits at a movie?
> 
> ...


The credits are at the begining of Lost. Plus, I don't think the average Lost viewer is the same thing as the average television viewer. Those folks gave up on Lost about the time that it started getting interesting (or to them, weird and meandering).


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

JMikeD said:


> It's entirely possible for two pieces of an aircraft to go in quite different trajectories/vectors. Both pieces were of differing masses with differing airfoils attached. In a real life incident, I would have been surprised if they had landed in the same place. We don't know the altitude of the incident, or what external forces were acting on the fuselage (i.e., what exactly ripped the aircraft apart).
> 
> Since it's a fictional incident for dramatic effect, it makes no difference. It did what it did.


There's also the fact that the plane was likely ripped apart due to the giant magnetic force that desmond failed to prevent when he stopped typing in the numbers.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I don't think I've ever looked or paid attention to anybody's name during the credits of any show.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Btw......I had this feeling that the island's magnetic field was involved with Sawyer and Hurley playing horseshoes.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Preview:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Yup, I thought that too.. 


Spoiler



Seriously, who else would justify that preview line? Libby? Anna Lucia? The swimming girl that drowned in the ocean? Nikki? Nope, it's Naomi or Michael.. (or Walt).. and I think Michael or Walt are too predictable.

(Plus, the ship's been out at sea for _two months_ just before finding the wreckage, so it wouldn't make sense that the captain would be either Michael or Walt.. they could be on board, but not captain.. (but again, the preview didn't say the "man on the boat"/friend was necessarily the captain)).


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

pmyers said:


> c'mon people....do we really need to spoilerize who we think Ben is talking about on the boat? That's just silly. It's all speculation.....





Spoiler



Some of the spoilered comments were because of data from next week's preview, which should be spoilered.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Where did the assumption that "the man on the boat" = "captain" come from?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> Yup, I thought that too..
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Her death notwithstanding, I don't think Naomi would as much make sense in that context. I mean, yes, technically, we'd expect to see her even less than Michael because she's dead, but if you just interpret it as "you'll be soooooo surprised" then I think Michael makes more sense because our surprise would be greater because we knew him much better, it's been longer since we've seen him, and because of the circumstances under which he left.


----------



## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> There's also the fact that the plane was likely ripped apart due to the giant magnetic force that desmond failed to prevent when he stopped typing in the numbers.


I was thinking that too. Has anybody mentioned, by the way, that maybe Ben had a way to control the magnetic force, and actually brought down the plane on purpose?

They made it a point to show the scene where Juliet tells Ben that Jack is a surgeon. She says "He can help you Ben" to which he replies "You don't say?" Clearly, he knew about Jack before the plane came down. Also, the whole incident gave him a way to take out Goodwin.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Btw......I had this feeling that the island's magnetic field was involved with Sawyer and Hurley playing horseshoes.


Good point. Maybe the stakes are attached directly to a big magnet, resulting in outrageously inflated scores.


----------



## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

Why, oh why, are the people from 815 the dumbest people on the planet??!! Why do they always turn their backs on the bad guys?!!! Why do they just take whatever his handed to them?

Stupid, just stupid people!!!


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

gchance said:


> The average viewer HATES credits and avoids them. Not only that, but the average viewer doesn't care who the people are other than one or two who he really likes.
> 
> When was the last time you stayed for all the credits at a movie?
> 
> ...


I'm talking about the credits in the beginning... where "Harold Perrineau" appears every week over the actual show.

Some people - not a ton of casual viewers, I'll admit - will know who that is.

Most viewers - like my one friend who just told me that he just got to the part in season 2 when Adebisi from Oz showed up  - don't pay attention to actors names.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

stiffi said:


> I was thinking that too. Has anybody mentioned, by the way, that maybe Ben had a way to control the magnetic force, and actually brought down the plane on purpose?
> 
> They made it a point to show the scene where Juliet tells Ben that Jack is a surgeon. She says "He can help you Ben" to which he replies "You don't say?" Clearly, he knew about Jack before the plane came down. Also, the whole incident gave him a way to take out Goodwin.


Well, maybe he had a way, but we know what led to the magnetic force bringing the plane down.

Yes, but they showed it _after_ the plane had come down. There's no indication that Ben knew anything about Jack before the plane came down.

I think he just took advantage of the opportunity that came along.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> I'm talking about the credits in the beginning... where "Harold Perrineau" appears every week over the actual show.
> 
> Some people - not a ton of casual viewers, I'll admit - will know who that is.
> 
> Most viewers - like my one friend who just told me that he just got to the part in season 2 when Adebisi from Oz showed up  - don't pay attention to actors names.


I'm one of those - I call folks by the names they had on other shows, or the tall balding guy, or whatever comes to mind. Were it not for y'all, I'm sure I would need to sit down if Michael showed back up on the show... I've thought about it, and perhaps even anticipated it, but not _expected_ it. Know what I mean?


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> An example of weaker writing and character development is Jack blithely switching from Kate to Juliette in picoseconds. On second thought, cancel that...it's a target rich environment and Jack is a male.
> Me, I'd take that murderess Kate if forced to choose.


In his defense, Kate is with Sawyer, so why not move on to Juliette? Not too many single women out there in the Island, and I bet his match.com membership expired already.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

Well, Juliette certainly has moved on quickly. It's only been a couple of months in story time between sobbing over dead Goodwin to kissing Jack because of the way she feels about him.

Who is Juliette supposed to remind Ben of? His childhood friend?


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

Shakhari said:


> Well, Juliette certainly has moved on quickly. It's only been a couple of months in story time between sobbing over dead Goodwin to kissing Jack because of the way she feels about him.
> 
> Who is Juliette supposed to remind Ben of? His childhood friend?


I thought that too, that Juliette moved on quickly. I answered your question on post #105.

And just to clarify -
We have one more new episode March 13th.
6 weeks off.
April 24th - the remaining 5 episodes.

Right?


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

bpurcell said:


> So my question is if Ben was so revenge thinking to send Goodwin, what particular ill did Ethan do to deserve death as well?





MitchO said:


> Well, if you follow the logic that because he sent Goodwin out on the mission with the intent of getting him killed, he also intended for Ethan to be killed eventually, it could be because Ethan's death makes Juliet that much more invaluable to the Others, giving her more of a reason to stay.


I thought the revenge part was when ben left goodwin undercover after ethan had been killed. juliet wanted to bring goodwin back, but ben made it a point to keep him in, knowing that it was likely he was going to be killed.



stiffi said:


> I was thinking that too. Has anybody mentioned, by the way, that maybe Ben had a way to control the magnetic force, and actually brought down the plane on purpose?
> 
> They made it a point to show the scene where Juliet tells Ben that Jack is a surgeon. She says "He can help you Ben" to which he replies "You don't say?" Clearly, he knew about Jack before the plane came down. Also, the whole incident gave him a way to take out Goodwin.





jeff125va said:


> Well, maybe he had a way, but we know what led to the magnetic force bringing the plane down.
> 
> Yes, but they showed it _after_ the plane had come down. There's no indication that Ben knew anything about Jack before the plane came down.


I thought the jack scene was after the plane came down, as well.

on a side note:
this episode of the backstory of the others made me hope for a reveal of what ben was doing in the parachute in the first place. did we get that story? and who the dude who's license he had was and that whole thing from when we first met ben.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

Cindy1230 said:


> I thought that too, that Juliette moved on quickly. I answered your question on post #105.
> 
> And just to clarify -
> We have one more new episode March 13th.
> ...


I think I read on ew.com that they were actually going to show episode 8 before the hiatus, although I could be misremembering.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> I'm talking about the credits in the beginning... where "Harold Perrineau" appears every week over the actual show.
> 
> Some people - not a ton of casual viewers, I'll admit - will know who that is.
> 
> Most viewers - like my one friend who just told me that he just got to the part in season 2 when Adebisi from Oz showed up  - don't pay attention to actors names.


Right. I can give a perfect example, though, of people not paying attention to credits. Zoe Bell is in the opening credits of every episode this season, but have we seen her?



Spoiler



She's Regina. So that whole argument about Naomi somehow being on the boat, on the other end of the radio, is silly.



Greg


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

I'm fairly certain that Ben's inside man is Michael - remember, the "you might want to sit down" comment was directed toward Locke, not us. For Locke, that would be probably be quite the shocker. 

Also, did anyone notice the rather quick reaction time that Charlotte showed when Kate came into frame? She noticed her out of the corner of her eye, and then drew her gun, pivoted, and aimed in a nano-second. Doesn't that kind of call into question Naomi's statement that none of the other 4 (Faraday, Charlotte, Miles, and the pilot) were field-trained? She certainly looked field-trained to me.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So when are they going to show Kate's little man on the boat?


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Cindy1230 said:


> Well it's never safe to assume anything, but it does kind of confirm that Annie is long gone. Not that I was biting my nails to get an answer to this one.
> She could have either died in the purge or maybe Ben got her pregnant and she died then.





Cindy1230 said:


> I thought that too, that Juliette moved on quickly. I answered your question on post #105.
> 
> And just to clarify -
> We have one more new episode March 13th.
> ...


Do I get an assist with that answer? 

And I believe we have two more episodes. We were supposed to get only the first seven, but I think that's changed and now we're getting the full 8 before going on break (last episode to air will be on March 20). Then a break and then 5 more episodes.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bruinfan said:


> I thought the revenge part was when ben left goodwin undercover after ethan had been killed. juliet wanted to bring goodwin back, but ben made it a point to keep him in, knowing that it was likely he was going to be killed.
> 
> I thought the jack scene was after the plane came down, as well.
> 
> ...


You mean the hot air balloon? He was never on that. He was lying the whole time. He'd been on the island since he was about 12. I'm not sure that we ever found out much about Henry Gale (the guy who had really been in the balloon).


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

jeff125va said:


> You mean the hot air balloon? He was never on that. He was lying the whole time. He'd been on the island since he was about 12. I'm not sure that we ever found out much about Henry Gale (the guy who had really been in the balloon).


hot air balloon, yes...

i just read the episode recap... i thought he was in the balloon that they happened upon, but he was caught in one of rousseau's net traps...

how quickly we forget.. carry on...


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

3D said:


> They sure do seem to be telegraphing things to make it look like Michael is the man on the boat, so I'm gonna throw out another possibility: Walt.


I don't really get how you could send a child on a freighter under cover alone. Even taller Walt is underage--unless he's even taller now. Or maybe Michael is working there and Walt is with him doing the communications with Ben.

As far as the huge surprise, I think the writers would be disappointed if they promise us a surprise, and end up only surprising Locke. They know we're expecting Michael--I don't think they would play it up so much if we were right.



getreal said:


> Of course, since they had revealed that Aaron is, in fact, with Kate when they get off the island, I might be wrong.
> 
> But I don't think I am.
> 
> And Locke and Ben ... if Locke just kept Ben gagged, and brought him food which had been run through a blender, then Ben could just drink his food through a straw and Locke wouldn't be susceptible to Ben's mind games.


LOL Duct tape over the mouth is the only way to be safe with Ben. If his lips are moving, you're being manipulated.

I seems like they must have said that Kate adopted Aaron after his mother died--how else could they explain him? So I can see counting him as a whole person in place of his mother. No way Kate could have been pregnant enough to have Aaron on the island and no one knew it when she left Austrailia. She must've been held somewhere while the Marshall arranged transportation for them, and they would know she wasn't showing. Unless the timeline is screwed up? Always a possibility... 



pmyers said:


> Btw......I had this feeling that the island's magnetic field was involved with Sawyer and Hurley playing horseshoes.


I thought this was back to Hurley's luck. Remember when he beat Jack at horse? (ok, that hasn't happened yet). Also remember how Walt always won at backgammon? And they're both acquainted with Jacob.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> He'd been on the island since he was about 12.


Well, minus vacation time to who-knows-where (various locations in Europe and Asia from the looks of his passport and currency stash), for who knows how long...


----------



## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

Just a prediction:

Jacob = Smoke Monster


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

TheGreyOwl said:


> My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.


Tell your wife I had the same idea. Although if that was the case, he would have to be on the boat in hiding (others on the boar would know him). If he's hiding out, it's less likely that he would have as much inside knowledge.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> As far as the huge surprise, I think the writers would be disappointed if they promise us a surprise, and end up only surprising Locke. They know we're expecting Michael--I don't think they would play it up so much if we were right.


It's not so much the writers as it is the ABC promo department.
The writers have nothing to do with the promos.
Even the producers have very little say about them.


----------



## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

I think that Ben's "man" on the boat is Regina, the woman who has been "manning" the radio since Minkowski became unstuck.


----------



## TheGreyOwl (Aug 18, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> It's impossible for it to be Sayid, unless there is some stupid time travel plot that will make me stop watching the show.


Well, I don't think it's impossible, even without time travel. Her whole point was that Sayid wasn't on the boat yet when Ben said that, but it was all part of Ben's plan that he wouldn end up there soon. But that being said, I don't really think it's Sayid. Michael seems the most logical choice, but it's also for that very reason that it might not be him.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> So when are they going to show Kate's little man on the boat?


Isn't that the little man IN the boat?

Either way, if they show it, they can call it whatever they want 

Z


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?


Probably a smeek, behind this week, but the horse is the example that comes to mind of when there were _definitely_ two people that saw it!


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Cindy1230 said:


> I answered your question on post #105.


I don't know that that is definitive - I think Juliet looks more like Ben's mom - whose portrait has been hanging in his house all his life on the island, if you're wondering how anyone else would know what she looks like - than Annie, who was more brunette than blonde when we last saw her.

Of course, Annie's hair could've turned more blonde later, and that painting might not be of Ben's mom; just saying that, as usual, nothing is a forgone conclusion...


----------



## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

"Why? You're asking me why? After everything I did to get you here. After everything I've done to keep you here. How can you possibly not understand? That you're mine!.... Take as much time as you need."

Creepy.



jeff125va said:


> Do you mean the characters or the writers? If the writers, it's a Shakespearean reference. It's about a man (Prospero) and his daughter who have been stranded on an island with mystical powers for 12 years. Then his brother, who had basically exiled him to the island, passes by on a ship that Prospero causes to run aground by creating a storm.


Nice.



3D said:


> My guess is that Charlotte and Faraday actually believe that they were supposed to deactivate the station for the exact reason that they gave (so that Ben could not use the gas to kill everyone). However, they only believe that because they are being lied to by whomever is running the Freighter operation. I think that Ben wants them stopped because he might have the need to use the gas to defend the Island from Widmore. For now, a partiularly integral weapon in his arsenal has been dismantled.


I like it.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

JYoung said:


> It's not so much the writers as it is the ABC promo department.
> The writers have nothing to do with the promos.
> Even the producers have very little say about them.


I was referring to Ben's claim that Locke would be amazed.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> So when are they going to show Kate's little man on the boat?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> ....
> I seems like they must have said that Kate adopted Aaron after his mother died--how else could they explain him? So I can see counting him as a whole person in place of his mother. No way Kate could have been pregnant enough to have Aaron on the island and no one knew it when she left Austrailia. She must've been held somewhere while the Marshall arranged transportation for them, and they would know she wasn't showing. Unless the timeline is screwed up? Always a possibility...


No, you're correct. Well, maybe not in all the conclusions you draw, but in theory she should have been exactly as pregnant as Claire was when they left Australia, if she's claiming to be his natural mother, and that someone would have to have noticed. But, they could possibly be lying about his age or some other explanation we haven't thought of.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> I was referring to Ben's claim that Locke would be amazed.


Well, Locke hasn't seen Harold in the opening credits like we have.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

verdugan said:


> In his defense, Kate is with Sawyer, so why not move on to Juliette? Not too many single women out there in the Island, and I bet his match.com membership expired already.


Uh, Kate DID tell him that ther reason she went with Locke was to find out if the boat people knew about her felonies. She did NOT say she went to be with Sawyer. Jack is SUCH a woosie.


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> There's also the fact that the plane was likely ripped apart due to the giant magnetic force that desmond failed to prevent when he stopped typing in the numbers.


I just don't find it credible that a real-world airliner would be ripped apart by a giant magnetic field. Airliners are mostly aluminum and maybe some titanium (and lately, non-metallic composites). Aluminum and titanium are paramagnetic, which means that they are so weakly attracted to magnets that they're considered to be non-magnetic. There's just little in a plane for a magnetic field to operate on.

Now if the show's creators want to say that in their fictional universe, a magnetic field can have that effect, then that's a different matter. 

I have no doubt that a creative writer could come up with a far-fetched explanation, though (a cargo hold full of ball bearings?).


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

tewcewl said:


> Do I get an assist with that answer?


I quoted you in my post, wasn't that an assist in it's self? 
Sorry, next time i'll say... We answered your question. 

-I have to vent for a moment. So ignore the rest if you don't care....I have to say that I've been reading the tivo lost thread for years, but as you can see, I haven't started posting until this season of Lost. And i'm sure everyone experiences this, but i'm sooo annoyed about the smeeking. I think i've been smeeked twice already this thread. I read EVERYTHING before I post or at least try to remember what i read before I post. I miss deadlines at work because i try to read everything ...ok... end vent - I feel better.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

JMikeD said:


> I just don't find it credible...


That phrase could precede 98% of what's happened on the show. It's always interesting to see what detail bugs each individual.


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> I don't know that that is definitive - I think Juliet looks more like Ben's mom - whose portrait has been hanging in his house all his life on the island, if you're wondering how anyone else would know what she looks like - than Annie, who was more brunette than blonde when we last saw her.
> 
> Of course, Annie's hair could've turned more blonde later, and that painting might not be of Ben's mom; just saying that, as usual, nothing is a forgone conclusion...


Thats a good point. I didn't even think about his mom.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

I hope this isn't smeeking, but I have to vent for a moment. So ignore the rest if you don't care....I have to say that I've been reading the tivo lost thread for years, but as you can see, I haven't started posting until this season of Lost. And i'm sure everyone experiences this, but i'm sooo annoyed about the smeeking. I think i've been smeeked twice already this thread. I read EVERYTHING before I post or at least try to remember what i read before I post. I miss deadlines at work because i'm try to read everything ...ok... end vent - I feel better.


----------



## RAKEN (Aug 6, 2006)

The man on the boat is Michael. Lock will be shocked because he views Walt as an ally and having Michael as a conspirator of Ben would just blow his mind, and have him thinking possibly Walt is also in league with Ben.

In the end this show is about Aaron. Ben is trying to get control of him. Either because they are related, or because he was born on the island he is special. Remember the psychic talking to Clair about not giving him up and he must be raised with her and only her. Ben brought down the plane to get Aaron everyone else is just there to play to that end game.


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

3D said:


> I hope this isn't smeeking, but I have to vent for a moment. So ignore the rest if you don't care....I have to say that I've been reading the tivo lost thread for years, but as you can see, I haven't started posting until this season of Lost. And i'm sure everyone experiences this, but i'm sooo annoyed about the smeeking. I think i've been smeeked twice already this thread. I read EVERYTHING before I post or at least try to remember what i read before I post. I miss deadlines at work because i try to read everything ...ok... end vent - I feel better.


Hardy har har... should have seen that one coming.


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> That phrase could precede 98% of what's happened on the show. It's always interesting to see what detail bugs each individual.


In fact, it doesn't particularly bug me. I cut writers a lot of slack on things such as this. It's like the guns that never run out of ammo or the cars that lose 5 or 6 hubcaps during the car chase.

Is an aluminum plane being ripped apart by magnetism any more unlikely than all those people surviving a crash with essentially no injuries? Maybe it was a localized gravity field. Writers can explain away just about anything. It's a framework to tell the story.

The intent of my original post was to point out that magnetic field theory doesn't work in real life.

And I don't believe it's been established that Walt has any magical powers, either.


----------



## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

Perhaps I am just too tired, but how is it that Charlotte and Daniel seemed to know Juliet? It didn't strike me as they knew her from a file they may have, but like they actually knew and talked to her before.


----------



## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

JMikeD said:


> I just don't find it credible that a real-world airliner would be ripped apart by a giant magnetic field. Airliners are mostly aluminum and maybe some titanium (and lately, non-metallic composites). Aluminum and titanium are paramagnetic, which means that they are so weakly attracted to magnets that they're considered to be non-magnetic. There's just little in a plane for a magnetic field to operate on.
> 
> Now if the show's creators want to say that in their fictional universe, a magnetic field can have that effect, then that's a different matter.
> 
> I have no doubt that a creative writer could come up with a far-fetched explanation, though (a cargo hold full of ball bearings?).


That argument is so first season. Can't we just move on?


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Is Charles Whidmore the Economist that Sayid was going to kill?


----------



## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

Can you give me some help?
1. Tivo got Celebrity Apprentice for 6 minutes before I caught it and switched. I missed the opening. Can someone briefly recap it for me?
2. I watched the ending, and I don't get it. "Best ending evar"??? Can someone clue me in on why this is so good/interesting/funny/something?

Thanks.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

Charon2 said:


> Perhaps I am just too tired, but how is it that Charlotte and Daniel seemed to know Juliet? It didn't strike me as they knew her from a file they may have, but like they actually knew and talked to her before.


They were on the beach with Juliette and Jack just last week. And the pilot identified her as someone that wasn't on the 815 manifest.



Turtleboy said:


> Is Charles Whidmore the Economist that Sayid was going to kill?


Ooh! Hmmm...I like that.


----------



## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

stevieleej said:


> If the writers really want a shocking moment when revealing Ben's 'man on the boat', instead of him being Michael (who we'd all expect), make it Eko, Boone, Ana-Lucia or Libby (who I always thought was an Other).


This is really going out on a limb, but I think it is Ana Lucia. No reason other than Ben made a big deal out of her "not being their kind of person".

Yes....I know you'll all attack now ;-)


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

balboa dave said:


> That argument is so first season. Can't we just move on?


So people can say it was a magnetic field that caused the crash, but I can't refute it?

Silly me. I guess I'll stop posting.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't think we got "Paulo and Nikki'd" at all. Are you trying to say that Juliet wasn't present the first time they showed us the barracks scene? Of course she was, because they had all just been at book club in her house. The fact that they showed us one scene with her looking at Goodwin doesn't mean they revised history.


What? No, Harper (the new character) was put into that scene.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

drumorgan said:


> Can you give me some help?
> 1. Tivo got Celebrity Apprentice for 6 minutes before I caught it and switched. I missed the opening. Can someone briefly recap it for me?


Juliette was talking with a therapist. She was complaining that she did not want to be the center of attention or a celebrity. They way she was talking was to make the audience think that we were seeing a "flash forward" and that the scene was taking place off the island. However after a couple of minutes, Tom (Mr. Friendly) opened the door and said that Ben wanted to see Juliette. 


> 2. I watched the ending, and I don't get it. "Best ending evar"??? Can someone clue me in on why this is so good/interesting/funny/something?
> 
> Thanks.


I wouldn't call it "the best ending evar", but the looks on Hurley and Sawyer's faces was hilarious. Plus Ben's whole nonchalant attitude made it just fun to watch.


----------



## jwehman (Feb 26, 2003)

So - I'm sorry if this is obvious, but it just dawned on me that it's quite possible that Ben sent Michael and Walt off in the boat in some exact heading because he *knew* that Widmore's boat was off in that direction too? Wasn't the Widmore boat looking for the island for two months or so? So, given when Michael and Walt left (day 67), that might account for them following heading 325 in order to intercept the boat. That would lead to them being on the boat now, with either one of them being Ben's "inside" man (though Walt wouldn't really be a "man").


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I thought the ending was funny too, but I don't know about best ending ever. 

Then again, someone allways posts that in the lost thread.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

RBlount said:


> Juliette was talking with a therapist. She was complaining that she did not want to be the center of attention or a celebrity. They way she was talking was to make the audience think that we were seeing a "flash forward" and that the scene was taking place off the island. However after a couple of minutes, Tom (Mr. Friendly) opened the door and said that Ben wanted to see Juliette.


Geez, guys. Maybe it's because I knew about it ahead of time, but it wouldn't have tricked me in the least bit.

Juliet wasn't saying that she WAS a celebrity, she was saying she was being TREATED LIKE a celebrity. Ben and Richard made it very clear to her when she was brought to the island that she was "something special" and everyone was excited. I didn't think for a minute she was off the island.

Not to mention, the surroundings they were in looked an awful lot like Others Quarters. 

Ben at the end of the episode was hilarious, he was like a little kid pretending to be someone else. Walking along, "la la la", he was almost SKIPPING.

Greg


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

astrohip said:


> To those who waste too much time hanging around these forums, he is a bit obvious. But not only do we do frame-by-frame analysis, we read the credits looking for clues, listen to Podcasts, etc.
> 
> The average viewer would be floored. Michael left a couple seasons ago. He & Walt are history. If either are on the freighter, it will be a jaw-droppin' moment for 80% of the viewers.


Well, "Tall Walt" was there just days ago.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

getreal said:


> One thing that has always disturbed me about the scene of the plane in the air and breaking up is that the sections take a "Y" trajectory, where the tail goes to the right and the fuselage goes to the left of the original path.
> 
> It just seems logical to me that they should have continued along a straight-ahead path, with the tail section hitting land sooner due to wind resistance and no engines, while the fuselage would drop further along the same straight-ahead path.


Almost like there was an explosion.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Remember, Michael left 30 days ago, not 3 years ago, like it seems.


----------



## drumorgan (Jan 11, 2003)

Rblount. Thanks for the answers. That helped. Yes, is was funny, but not one warranting the modified "evar", at least for me.


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Cindy1230 said:


> Thats a good point. I didn't even think about his mom.


Then that would put an Oedipal twist on Ben...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gchance said:


> Geez, guys. Maybe it's because I knew about it ahead of time, but it wouldn't have tricked me in the least bit.


It didn't exactly fool me, but it certainly puzzled me...I couldn't figure out where/when it was supposed to be. It didn't make a ton of sense for it to be later, but the surrounding seemed more modern than the Village and her make-up seemed stronger than in her previous flashbacks. So I just figured I'd wait for more clues, and the "mystery" didn't go on long enough for it to start really bothering me.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

RAKEN said:


> The man on the boat is Michael. Lock will be shocked because he views Walt as an ally and having Michael as a conspirator of Ben would just blow his mind, and have him thinking possibly Walt is also in league with Ben.
> 
> In the end this show is about Aaron. Ben is trying to get control of him. Either because they are related,


Ben is possibly related to Aaron?

Maybe Ben sent Michael and Walt on a heading to the ship knowing that Widmore wouldn't let them go, and his man on the ship could keep track of them. Walt could be used as a communication link, and possibly they would realize that Ben is telling the truth when he says he's the good guy. A stretch, I know, especially the Ben telling the truth part.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> There's also the fact that the plane was likely ripped apart due to the giant magnetic force that desmond failed to prevent when he stopped typing in the numbers.


The plane's momentum was pulling it forward; the Island's magnetic force was pulling it backwards, causing the plane to break in two. I'm not a physics major, so this is not a rhetorical question but, wouldn't both halves of the plane still have forward momentum? Sure, the back section would not have the thrust of the engines, so I could see it having a much different trajectory than the fuselage. But I think the OP was talking about how the tail section seemingly flew in the direction opposite to the original flight path (of course I am probably mis-remembering).


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> Yup, I thought that too..
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Not sure why speculation is being spoiler-tagged, but I agree with you about the possibility.

What happened to Desmond when he "tripped"? He was out. Pretty much could have been like that person you mentioned in the spoiler. It could be him/her, but I don't think so. At least with Sayid, we've seen flash-forwards of him working for/with Ben. Nothing like that has been shown. hinted at or suggested with regard to this other person.

Then, again, this is Lost, and we should all expect the unexpected, and this would be unexpected.

The more I ruminate on it, the more I am beginning to think that, in the end, Ben's "mole" will end up being someone who is either teleporting/time tripping, or using distance-viewing.

Then I refer back to the previous paragraph, and this is exactly what the writers would expect us to expect, so ...


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

stiffi said:


> I was thinking that too. Has anybody mentioned, by the way, that maybe Ben had a way to control the magnetic force, and actually brought down the plane on purpose?
> 
> They made it a point to show the scene where Juliet tells Ben that Jack is a surgeon. She says "He can help you Ben" to which he replies "You don't say?" Clearly, he knew about Jack before the plane came down. Also, the whole incident gave him a way to take out Goodwin.


Everything we've been shown so far suggests that he knew nothing about Jack before the plane crash. As soon as the see the plane he starts the ball rolling about getting information about everyone on the plane, and sends Goodwin/Ethan out to infiltrate and make lists. I think the "You don't say" meant "Duh! I know my condition; I know the guy's a spinal surgeon; and I'm smarter than you are, so if you figured it out don't you think I would have figured it out better and faster?"

OK, maybe I'm reading a little too much into those three words

By the way, speaking of lists, the last reference (Ben saying something like "After all, they were on the list") made me think that someone higher up than Ben was passing him the list -- Jacob. Now, thinking back to his instructions to Goodman/Ethan, he said something like "I want lists in <some time span reference>". That would seem to imply that Goodwin and Ethan were making the lists?


----------



## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

Perhaps my navigation skills are out of whack, but just because two things leave on the same heading, doesn't mean they will end up at the same point, unless the point of departure is the same. That is, unless the helicopter crossed the boat dock on its way out, they ran parallel. An example. A boat leave LA on a heading of 305, and a plane leaves Seatle on a heading of 305, are their paths not parallel to one another and their paths never cross?
That isn't to say that Michael isn't on the boat, I figure he and Walt likely are, and Michael may well be Ben's man on the boat, and they may have came close enough to the freighter that it doesn't matter, but just because they left along the same heading isn't reason enough to make that assumption. 
Then again, the map shows that they had to go 40 miles N @ 305 degrees, before making a turn East for 7k, which may put the boat more directly in line with the way Michael went. Why we change from miles to metric units in one map is beyond me.

Okay, wait, Michael was going at 325. It would take too much time to work out a map...


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> I thought the ending was funny too, but I don't know about best ending ever.
> 
> Then again, someone allways posts that in the lost thread.


Best.Ending.EVAR doesn't mean the same as "best ending ever".


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I don't understand the significance of the Red Sox tape. The world series in 2004 was sometime after the plane crashed, right? So did Ben tape it because he knew Jack was a fan? He had the tape when he was holding Jack like a few weeks ago? So between then and now he or someone else taped Widmore presumably on the mainland--maybe his man on the ship or someone else undercover, or maybe Ben himself--on the same tape? Why? Video tapes are cheap and plentiful, and how did the tape even get there unless Ben took it. Is that the point? What am I missing here?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> I don't understand the significance of the Red Sox tape. The world series in 2004 was sometime after the plane crashed, right? So did Ben tape it because he knew Jack was a fan? He had the tape when he was holding Jack like a few weeks ago? So between then and now he or someone else taped Widmore presumably on the mainland--maybe his man on the ship or someone else undercover, or maybe Ben himself--on the same tape? Why? Video tapes are cheap and plentiful, and how did the tape even get there unless Ben took it. Is that the point? What am I missing here?


I don't think you're missing anything, just making too much of it. I guess he just figured he didn't need the Red Sox game any more (based on his dismissive "I taped over it" remark. They might not be plentiful on the island, or he just grabbed the closest one.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

CarynFromHermosa said:


> This is really going out on a limb, but I think it is Ana Lucia. No reason other than Ben made a big deal out of her "not being their kind of person".
> 
> Yes....I know you'll all attack now ;-)


Attack you, why? Just because she's dead?


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> As far as the huge surprise, I think the writers would be disappointed if they promise us a surprise, and end up only surprising Locke. They know we're expecting Michael--I don't think they would play it up so much if we were right.


We here might be, but the average viewer probably hasn't even considered that idea. The show creators keep pointing out how for every one of us here who obsesses about the precise count of days, there's a dozen who are more interested in who Kate ends up with.



JMikeD said:


> I just don't find it credible that a real-world airliner would be ripped apart by a giant magnetic field.


Is it okay that that magnetic field unsticks a consciousness in time, and may be implicated in causing spontaneous remission of lower-body paralysis, though?



Turtleboy said:


> Is Charles Whidmore the Economist that Sayid was going to kill?


I think so. (Though I can't quite recall: did we once get a tip that Widmore doesn't like current technology, just like the economist doesn't?)


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Yeah, it's Michael. It has to be.

The fact that people are suggesting dead and buried characters, or characters that weren't on the boat is just silly.

How could it possibly be Sayid? How could Sayid contact Ben with all the information about the four people who came to the Island? How could he get the information?

Naomi is a possibility, but why would Ben tell Locke to sit down? And why would we, the viewers care?

Anna Lucia? Dead and off the show. Libby? Dead.

Harold Perrenau is in the credits and has been since the beginning of the season. It's Michael.

(And Michael isn't the captain, he's just Michael).

Now the question is, did the freighter pick him up, or did he make it back to land and join them later.

That is yet to be revealed.


----------



## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

Hunter Green said:


> We here might be, but the average viewer probably hasn't even considered that idea. The show creators keep pointing out how for every one of us here who obsesses about the precise count of days, there's a dozen who are more interested in who Kate ends up with.


I've talked to a number of 'average viewers' - those who chatter around the water cooler and then forget the show until the following ep - and they are all certain that it's Michael. Just sayin'.

It would be truly jaw-dropping to sooo many if it is someone else. If it's Michael, everyone gets to say - see, I knew it! Win-win for the writers, in my mind. And, since it's all pre-planned, there will be much more to come from it, whoever it is.

I think it's Michael.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

gchance said:


> Ben at the end of the episode was hilarious, he was like a little kid pretending to be someone else. Walking along, "la la la", he was almost SKIPPING.


Very reminiscent of Pee Wee Herman.
La-la-lah! Hu-hah!


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Naomi is a possibility, but why would Ben tell Locke to sit down?


Because Locke put a knife in her back.



Turtleboy said:


> And why would we, the viewers care?


Because she was supposed to be dead.

On another note, I think Charles Widmore created the "solo race around the world" and tricked Desmond into entering it because he knew Desmond would end up on the island, which would help Charles find it.

Speaking of Charles, why would the writers create a character named "Charles" when there was already a character named "Charlie." The show isn't confusing enough?


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Yes we did. So very annoying. This whole episode was a collection of things I hate about Lost (my favorite show)--primarily having the main tension rest on the refusal of characters to communicate with each other
> 
> So unlike the wily Kate. But, a mediocre writer should never let character stand in the way of cliché.
> 
> I really can't stand the Charlotte character. Or maybe the actress. Probably both. Honestly, either Kate or Juliette should have put a bullet in her head.


Get out of my brain!


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Turtleboy said:


> Yeah, it's Michael. It has to be.
> 
> The fact that people are suggesting dead and buried characters, or characters that weren't on the boat is just silly.
> 
> ...


Even though Ben didn't _know_ that Naomi is dead, he at least knew that she had a knife in her back. If she were "his man", I don't think he would have used quite the same words talking about her. And especially not with Locke (for different reasons, i.e. it wouldn't be shocking to him).

I'm guessing Ben must have had someone meet Michael on the way to the boat - perhaps that's the reason for the different bearing? I can't imagine when Ben would have been able to discuss any sort of plan with Michael, and they certainly put on an act at the ferry dock if they had. We saw Mrs. Klugh talk to Michael about bringing the four people back in exchange for being let go, and nothing was mentioned about it then.


----------



## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

JMikeD said:


> So people can say it was a magnetic field that caused the crash, but I can't refute it?
> 
> Silly me. I guess I'll stop posting.


I'm sorry you lost your sense of humor. My condolences.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

aindik said:


> Because Locke put a knife in her back.
> 
> Because she was supposed to be dead.
> 
> ...


What about that would make it "sit down" shocking to Locke? It's not like he knew anything about her previously.

She IS dead. It's not like they'd be telling us that she came back to life. If it were Naomi, they'd obviously be telling us that she WAS his man.

It was a SOLAR race. 

Yeah, I'm always getting those two characters mixed up. The strung out rock star in a hoodie and jeans? No wait, the billionaire industrialist in the expensive suits.


----------



## RLeeA3 (Nov 15, 2007)

Locke is the man on the boat............


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Ehh-hmm. Evar!


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I think we're being set up for another surprise next week. I think we see both Naomi AND Michael, but neither one may necessarily be the Man on the Boat. The Michael thing is almost too obvious, as many others have said.

It would seem odd that the Freighties would trust anyone who came from the island, particularly anyone who dealt with Ben. And Michael ain't smart enough to conceal that part, or the part about 815. Plus, they have a manifest list better than the airline did. Of course, it's possible that the people on the freighter are just as bad about sharing information as the Losties on the island are. 

I don't see Naomi as the MOB or the surprise Ben told Locke, because it would be past tense and relatively pointless, if she's dead. There's no tension in it. Only if Ben knows that she is still alive and back on the freighter - then the "sit down" comment would make sense for her.

But maybe the writers will find a way around all of the above. But aside from who the final O6 person(s) is(are), I think seeing Naomi would be another surprise for us.

Well, some of us.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> I think we're being set up for another surprise next week. I think we see both Naomi AND Michael, but neither one may necessarily be the Man on the Boat. The Michael thing is almost too obvious, as many others have said.


It's only obvious because of meta knowledge. It's not obvious from a pure storytelling standpoint, but it IS logical, from what Ben said.

Anyone care to make a bet about it?


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

what would shock Locke (hehe) the most is if the mole was Helen. Just going out there like a lot of others. She's not dead, is she?

But really it probably isn't her or Naomi because I believe Ben said, "I have a *man *on that boat."

(blood in the water...)


----------



## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Wouldn't Miles have known if Naomi wasn't dead, or does he have the ability to hear dead people and "mostly dead" people and he cannot tell the difference?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

RLeeA3 said:


> Locke is the man on the boat............


Finally! Someone says the one name that would floor Locke so entirely as to un-heal his paralysis and force him to "sit down". Bravo!

(Not that I really think it is him but, wow, that really would be a kicker.)


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

balboa dave said:


> I'm sorry you lost your sense of humor. My condolences.


None needed. My sense of humor is still present. It just seems to be on a slightly different wavelength than many.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JMikeD said:


> None needed. My sense of humor is still present. It just seems to be on a slightly different wavelength than many.


Haven't you heard? In the new era we live in, if "your" sense of humor doesn't match "my" sense of humor, you don't have one.

It's us against them, baby. If you don't have a sense of humor you're with the terrorists.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> As far as the huge surprise, I think the writers would be disappointed if they promise us a surprise, and end up only surprising Locke. They know we're expecting Michael--I don't think they would play it up so much if we were right.


As others have pointed out, I believe the vast majority of LOST viewers have NO IDEA Michael (Harold P) is coming back. If he is the mole (and I have no idea if he is, nor do I care), it will be a shock. Just not to us. 



SoBelle0 said:


> I've talked to a number of 'average viewers' - those who chatter around the water cooler and then forget the show until the following ep - and they are all certain that it's Michael. Just sayin'.


I have to disagree. I know several 'average viewers" also--my wife, my parents, my sister & BIL, several people at work--and NONE of them follow the details like this forum. Not a one of them has ever gone to a LOST site online, nor visited a forum. Yet they love it, and watch it religiously. And they know to talk to me about it, 'cause they all know I do those things, and I can share easter eggs and whatnot with them weekly. And not a one of them is expecting Michael. He left the show a couple years ago, remember?



CarynFromHermosa said:


> This is really going out on a limb, but I think it is Ana Lucia.


She's DEAD. DEAD. As in BURIED dead.

This does raise an interesting question. Is there anyone that we know is dead (yes, I'm aware what we 'know' is a tenuous concept) that has come back to life? I don't count visions that no one else has seen (like Jack's dad).


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

astrohip said:


> As others have pointed out, I believe the vast majority of LOST viewers have NO IDEA Michael (Harold P) is coming back. If he is the mole (and I have no idea if he is, nor do I care), it will be a shock. Just not to us.
> 
> I have to disagree. I know several 'average viewers" also--my wife, my parents, my sister & BIL, several people at work--and NONE of them follow the details like this forum. Not a one of them has ever gone to a LOST site online, nor visited a forum. Yet they love it, and watch it religiously. And they know to talk to me about it, 'cause they all know I do those things, and I can share easter eggs and whatnot with them weekly. And not a one of them is expecting Michael. He left the show a couple years ago, remember?
> 
> ...


No.

I agree with the post about Helen. That would absolutely be the most "sit-down" shocking to Locke. It doesn't really fit otherwise, but still. Then again, after regaining use of his legs, his dad showing up on the island, etc., why would _anything_ really surprise Locke any more?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

astrohip said:


> She's DEAD. DEAD. As in BURIED dead.


Exactly. And, as anyone who has heard the official LOST podcasts knows, plans for the zombie season have been scrapped.



astrohip said:


> This does raise an interesting question. Is there anyone that we know is dead (yes, I'm aware what we 'know' is a tenuous concept) that has come back to life? I don't count visions that no one else has seen (like Jack's dad).


Jesus?  Now THAT would floor Locke, the "man of faith".


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Anyone has links to whisper transcripts?

BTW, there are leaked screencaps from the upcoming episode confirming that Ben's man on the boat is


Spoiler



Michael.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Anyone has links to whisper transcripts?
> 
> BTW, there are leaked screencaps from the upcoming episode confirming that Ben's man on the boat is
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Shocker of shocks!


----------



## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

If the captain turns out to be the Gorton's Fisherman, I'll worship the writers.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TiVotion said:


> If the captain turns out to be the Gorton's Fisherman, I'll worship the writers.


I think it'll be


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

aindik said:


> On another note, I think Charles Widmore created the "solo race around the world" and tricked Desmond into entering it because he knew Desmond would end up on the island, which would help Charles find it.


So, do you think Libby was working for Widmore?



getreal said:


> Jesus?  Now THAT would floor Locke, the "man of faith".


In a way, Jesus is on that freighter:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377992/


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

mqpickles said:


> So, do you think Libby was working for Widmore?
> 
> In a way, Jesus is on that freighter:
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377992/


So is the Indian Stereotype in Short Circuit.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> So is the Indian Stereotype in Short Circuit.


I think you mean the sidekick of the guy who gets tomorrow's paper today.


----------



## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> Do you mean the characters or the writers? If the writers, it's a Shakespearean reference. It's about a man (Prospero) and his daughter who have been stranded on an island with mystical powers for 12 years. Then his brother, who had basically exiled him to the island, passes by on a ship that Prospero causes to run aground by creating a storm.


the characters, via the writers. It's just so unbelievable that people would come up with something like that for no particular reason. And even if it's a Shakespeare reference, what would a chemical plant have to do with Shakespeare ? Oh ... but wait ... I'm sure we'll learn why it's called the Tempest about 19 episodes down the line 

I still enjoy the show, but the writers are just so full of themselves it's sick.


----------



## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

My wife's favorite line:
"Because, YOU'RE MINE!"


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

tem said:


> the characters, via the writers. It's just so unbelievable that people would come up with something like that for no particular reason. And even if it's a Shakespeare reference, what would a chemical plant have to do with Shakespeare ? Oh ... but wait ... I'm sure we'll learn why it's called the Tempest about 19 episodes down the line
> 
> I still enjoy the show, but the writers are just so full of themselves it's sick.


Does that really matter? I mean why is the Swan the Swan, or the Pearl the Pearl, or the Arrow the Arrow? The names of the Staff and the Looking Glass seem to apply to their function, but the rest have names without obvious connections.


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island? Maybe Walt was taken again. Ben said Whidmore wanted to exploit the island and asked Locke how many people would want to see him, being a healed paralytic. So maybe Whidmore took Walt because of his weird abilities and now Michael is forced to ally himself with Ben and be a mole in order to somehow get Walt back.


----------



## BALLS (Aug 18, 2005)

I'm 99% sure Jack's dad is Ben's spy on the ship.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

chavez said:


> if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island? Maybe Walt was taken again. Ben said Whidmore wanted to exploit the island and asked Locke how many people would want to see him, being a healed paralytic. So maybe Whidmore took Walt because of his weird abilities and now Michael is forced to ally himself with Ben and be a mole in order to somehow get Walt back.


Considering the press attention we've seen devoted to Kate and the rest of the Oceanic Six, I don't think there's much of a chance Michael and Walt ever got home. Hey, maybe I just stumbled onto something. Could Michael and Walt be the last two of the Six?

I predict: Ben convinced Walt that the Island is special and worth protecting, and Michael believes Walt. Also, we've seen Michael is fairly easily blackmailed or convinced to do some pretty terrible things.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Well, I was just rewatching Season 2 with my cousin (she's watching for the first time) and something really caught my attention to convince me that it is, in fact, Michael who is, "the man on the boat."

When Ben gave Michael the barings, he said, follow those barings and you will find rescue. Ben must've known that freighter was out there. Ben told him exactly where to go to "find rescue" as opposed to going home. I'm thinking there were probably specific instructions for Michael waiting for him in the boat that included boarding the freighter and acting as a spy.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

chavez said:


> if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island? Maybe Walt was taken again. Ben said Whidmore wanted to exploit the island and asked Locke how many people would want to see him, being a healed paralytic. So maybe Whidmore took Walt because of his weird abilities and now Michael is forced to ally himself with Ben and be a mole in order to somehow get Walt back.


Who said anything about Michael coming back to the island?

We saw Walt warn Locke about the people on the boat, so perhaps he convinced Michael to help Ben work against them. That doesn't convince me that the freighter people have ill intentions toward anyone other than Ben. After all, Walt warned Locke not to open the hatch, but did anything inherently bad really happen because of that? At least, because of simply opening it and going down there? There were some chains of events that might have had bad consequences but as far as just opening it, I think Walt's warning was not really all that prophetic. It would have been mostly beneficial if Locke hadn't stopped pushing the button.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

tem said:


> the characters, via the writers. It's just so unbelievable that people would come up with something like that for no particular reason. And even if it's a Shakespeare reference, what would a chemical plant have to do with Shakespeare ? Oh ... but wait ... I'm sure we'll learn why it's called the Tempest about 19 episodes down the line
> 
> I still enjoy the show, but the writers are just so full of themselves it's sick.


Based on what the characters who built The Tempest seem to know about the island, why NOT name it The Tempest (depending on what it does) if they have to give it a name?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

chavez said:


> if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island?


You're assuming he got to some form of mainland. I assume he was picked up by this boat, if he is Ben's man there.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Walt warned Locke not to open the hatch, but did anything inherently bad really happen because of that? At least, because of simply opening it and going down there? There were some chains of events that might have had bad consequences


Wow, that's an understatement.  Didn't opening the hatch set all of this in motion?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> So, do you think Libby was working for Widmore?
> 
> In a way, Jesus is on that freighter:
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377992/


Whoa! 



Turtleboy said:


> So is the Indian Stereotype in Short Circuit.


And so is the dude from the Kama Sutra.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Charon2 said:


> My wife's favorite line:
> "Because, YOU'RE MINE!"


Followed up with "Happy Valentine!"


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

chavez said:


> if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island? Maybe Walt was taken again. Ben said Whidmore wanted to exploit the island and asked Locke how many people would want to see him, being a healed paralytic. So maybe Whidmore took Walt because of his weird abilities and now Michael is forced to ally himself with Ben and be a mole in order to somehow get Walt back.





unicorngoddess said:


> When Ben gave Michael the barings, he said, follow those barings and you will find rescue. Ben must've known that freighter was out there. Ben told him exactly where to go to "find rescue" as opposed to going home. I'm thinking there were probably specific instructions for Michael waiting for him in the boat that included boarding the freighter and acting as a spy.





MickeS said:


> You're assuming he got to some form of mainland. I assume he was picked up by this boat, if he is Ben's man there.


If it is Michael, i'm glad that we are coming up with some new questions to make it interesting for us, because i was getting bored with the idea that it was. As chavez and unicorngoddess said, a few things had to happen between Michael leaving the island and getting to the freighter, .. if he went straight to the freighter or got picked up by the freighter, he didn't know he was suppose to spy for Ben. So who else did Michael intercept to get his instructions to be Ben's spy. As people have said here, i find it sooo hard that after what he has been through (ha ha, get it BEN through) Michael finally finds other people to talk to and they are just telling him..ok you are not rescued go spy. They cant do the whole hold Walt hostage thing again.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Wow, that's an understatement.  Didn't opening the hatch set all of this in motion?


Using another literary metaphor, the Hatch was a Pandora's Box.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Cindy1230 said:


> If it is Michael, i'm glad that we are coming up with some new questions to make it interesting for us, because i was getting bored with the idea that it was. As chavez and unicorngoddess said, a few things had to happen between Michael leaving the island and getting to the freighter, .. if he went straight to the freighter or got picked up by the freighter, he didn't know he was suppose to spy for Ben.


Why not? Didn't Michael have lots of alone time with Ben and his people before he went back to camp to lure Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley to Ben?



Cindy1230 said:


> So who else did Michael intercept to get his instructions to be Ben's spy. As people have said here, i find it sooo hard that after what he has been through (ha ha, get it BEN through) Michael finally finds other people to talk to and they are just telling him..ok you are not rescued go spy.


Heh. Took me three reads to figure out what you are talking about. Not everyone pronounces "been" and "ben" the same. To me, "been" is pronounced the same as "bin," which is different from "ben." Not to hijack a 400 post thread. 



Cindy1230 said:


> They cant do the whole hold Walt hostage thing again.


No, they can't. WAAAAALT!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Wow, that's an understatement.  Didn't opening the hatch set all of this in motion?


Not really. A lot of stuff would have still happened whether they'd opened the hatch or not. They still would have captured Walt. Ben pretending he was Henry Gale which led to Michael trading Jack et. al. for Walt didn't really hinge on the hatch. And the freighter people coming and Naomi parachuting onto the island certainly didn't depend on the hatch being opened.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Cindy1230 said:


> If it is Michael, i'm glad that we are coming up with some new questions to make it interesting for us, because i was getting bored with the idea that it was. As chavez and unicorngoddess said, a few things had to happen between Michael leaving the island and getting to the freighter, .. if he went straight to the freighter or got picked up by the freighter, he didn't know he was suppose to spy for Ben. So who else did Michael intercept to get his instructions to be Ben's spy. As people have said here, i find it sooo hard that after what he has been through (ha ha, get it BEN through) Michael finally finds other people to talk to and they are just telling him..ok you are not rescued go spy. They cant do the whole hold Walt hostage thing again.


What if it just turns out that he actually IS trying to help his friends. Maybe Ben told Walt, look...you and your dad are going to leave on this boat. But what about your friends? If you want them to live you and your dad are going to have to stay on the freighter and let me know what's going on because they are very bad people and they could hurt your friends.

We all wondered why Walt would just let his dad drive away without asking about their "friends" they were leaving behind. Could it be because Walt knew the only way to help them was to get on that freighter???


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

aindik said:


> Why not? Didn't Michael have lots of alone time with Ben and his people before he went back to camp to lure Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley to Ben?


It's possible, but I'm pretty sure we saw Michael _alone_ with Mrs. Klugh when she was telling him whom he needed to bring back to trade for Walt. He may have been putting on an act with Ben on the dock at the Pala Ferry, but why wouldn't Mrs. Klugh have told him the whole plan at that point? The ONLY opportunity Ben would have had to tell him was right after Michael shot himself and let Ben go, and I'd be surprised if Ben wasn't in a huge hurry to get out of there or that Michael was in any condition to commit all of those instructions to memory.

If Ben talked to anyone, I think it was Walt, like unicorngoddess said.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> It's possible, but I'm pretty sure we saw Michael _alone_ with Mrs. Klugh when she was telling him whom he needed to bring back to trade for Walt. He may have been putting on an act with Ben on the dock at the Pala Ferry, but why wouldn't Mrs. Klugh have told him the whole plan at that point? The ONLY opportunity Ben would have had to tell him was right after Michael shot himself and let Ben go, and I'd be surprised if Ben wasn't in a huge hurry to get out of there or that Michael was in any condition to commit all of those instructions to memory.
> 
> If Ben talked to anyone, I think it was Walt, like unicorngoddess said.


Maybe Mrs. Klugh wasn't in on it. Ben kept plenty of his own people in the dark on these things, I think.

Wasn't Michael in their camp for a while? How do we know Ben didn't have an opportunity to explain things to him at that time? ("How do we know" means I very well could be forgetting something).


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

Sorry if i'm smeeking... but I'm not at home to check the episodes, but we've seen Harold Perrineau in the credits all season. Have we seen Malcolm David Kelley (Waaaaallllt) in the opening credits?



Spoiler



Harold Perrineau is on imdb for this season but not Malcom David Kelley


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

I can see a situation where Michael and Walt made it to the freighter, and the people aboard didn't act too happy to see him, nor too willing to take him home or do anything to rescue his friends. Michael starts getting suspicious and somehow radios back to the island, hoping to get in touch with Jack somehow. Instead he gets Ben and the rest is "Ben is a master manipulator" history.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

aindik said:


> Maybe Mrs. Klugh wasn't in on it. Ben kept plenty of his own people in the dark on these things, I think.
> 
> Wasn't Michael in their camp for a while? How do we know Ben didn't have an opportunity to explain things to him at that time? ("How do we know" means I very well could be forgetting something).


Ben was locked up in the hatch. Michael was out searching for Walt. Michael came back and freed Ben after killing Ana-Lucia and Libby (who, by the way, are now dead as a result of being killed). Michael freed Ben, then Ben went back to The Others and Michael took Jack and crew back to The Others and Ben.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Cindy1230 said:


> Sorry if i'm smeeking... but I'm not at home to check the episodes, but we've seen Harold Perrineau in the credits all season. Have we seen Malcolm David Kelley (Waaaaallllt) in the opening credits?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



not sure but I think imdb is a good indicator in this case. It says "credit only" for HP all this season, so I'm sure if MDK's name was in the opening credits it would say the same thing.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Is there any logic behind Michael being "the man" that Ben has on the boat? I am fighting this thought all the way and hope that he isn't. But my brain swivels back and forth. I mean, he went off on a boat with his son. They either made it thru the distortion field and are being quiet about who they are, or they didn't. Why would they have gotten home and not been telling everyone? oh, because Michael killed some people. But wait, why would Michael agree to be the guy on the boat - oh to get off the island. I mean Ben did let him sail away without too much grief. Unless he knew either they would never make it and be coming back to the island or that they boat would find them and take them on. In any case, what is Walt up to?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> Not really. A lot of stuff would have still happened whether they'd opened the hatch or not. They still would have captured Walt. Ben pretending he was Henry Gale which led to Michael trading Jack et. al. for Walt didn't really hinge on the hatch. And the freighter people coming and Naomi parachuting onto the island certainly didn't depend on the hatch being opened.


Opening the hatch led to meeting Desmond and the computer. When Locke prevented the computer from being reset every 108 minutes, that led to Dez turning the failsafe key which caused the electromagnetic pulse, which caused the island to become visible for a brief moment in time, which led to Penny tracking the island, as well as the freighter.

So, yes, the hatch was a critical plotline.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

aindik said:


> Speaking of Charles, why would the writers create a character named "Charles" when there was already a character named "Charlie." The show isn't confusing enough?


Charlie, Charles, and now in recent episodes there's a Charlotte, too - my head is spinning!

For a reason why the writers might keep looking to this particular name, you might look to Stephen King and his "The Dark Tower" series.



Spoiler



The writers have acknowledged several of King's works as influences on Lost, and have mentioned The Dark Tower in particular. Link. King, in "The Dark Tower" series, uses the word "char" throughout as a reference to death, specifically including characters named "Charlie" Link



Personally, though, I think this is all a bit of a stretch. Just something I thought of when you mentioned the similar names, which hadn't struck me before.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Is there any logic behind Michael being "the man" that Ben has on the boat? I am fighting this thought all the way and hope that he isn't. But my brain swivels back and forth. I mean, he went off on a boat with his son. They either made it thru the distortion field and are being quiet about who they are, or they didn't. Why would they have gotten home and not been telling everyone? oh, because Michael killed some people. But wait, why would Michael agree to be the guy on the boat - oh to get off the island. I mean Ben did let him sail away without too much grief. Unless he knew either they would never make it and be coming back to the island or that they boat would find them and take them on. In any case, what is Walt up to?


Ben gave Michael the EXACT barings to follow to "find rescue" so those barings could have very easily been the exact coordinates for him to find that freighter.

Remember, Ben had ordered those two chicks in the looking glass station or whatever to jam all signals...probably because he knew that boat was there looking for the island. So it would seem as if Ben led Michael directly to that freighter.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

If it is Michael, and at this point I can't think of anyone else that we know (who would floor Locke when told) that would make more sense, I think we're in for a Michael flashback episode that will tell the story of how he became Ben's patsy. Even though Michael didn't spend any quality time in the others camp, Walt did, and maybe Ben managed to brainwash him, or perhaps Walt had a little talk with Jacob and that convinced him to be on Ben's side. Walt could have convinced Michael to change teams.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

danterner said:


> Charlie, Charles, and now in recent episodes there's a Charlotte, too - my head is spinning!


At least it's not "lonely tourist Charlotte Charles."


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

aindik said:


> Didn't Michael have lots of alone time with Ben and his people before he went back to camp to lure Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley to Ben?





jeff125va said:


> It's possible, but I'm pretty sure we saw Michael _alone_ with Mrs. Klugh when she was telling him whom he needed to bring back to trade for Walt. He may have been putting on an act with Ben on the dock at the Pala Ferry, but why wouldn't Mrs. Klugh have told him the whole plan at that point? The ONLY opportunity Ben would have had to tell him was right after Michael shot himself and let Ben go, and I'd be surprised if Ben wasn't in a huge hurry to get out of there or that Michael was in any condition to commit all of those instructions to memory.
> 
> If Ben talked to anyone, I think it was Walt, like unicorngoddess said.


You all need to check out the LOSTmobisodes. Particularly _*"Missing Piece #4: The Deal"*_. It shows Michael talking with someone OTHER than Mrs. Klugh.

And *"Missing Piece #6: Room 23" *gives us some insight into Walt's special ability.

*"Missing Piece #12: The Envelope"* hints at what we've recently learned about Ben & Juliet's relationship.

And Vincent stars in his own mobisode in _*"Missing Piece #13: So It Begins"*_.

Check 'em out, folks! :up:


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

aindik said:


> At least it's not "lonely tourist Charlotte Charles."


Whose name was very carefully selected by Bryan Fuller based upon her condition, I suspect.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> Ben gave Michael the EXACT barings to follow to "find rescue" so those barings could have very easily been the exact coordinates for him to find that freighter.


All these barings on a family show!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> All these barings on a family show!


Ahhh ... Season 1 ...


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

getreal said:


> Opening the hatch led to meeting Desmond and the computer. When Locke prevented the computer from being reset every 108 minutes, that led to Dez turning the failsafe key which caused the electromagnetic pulse, which caused the island to become visible for a brief moment in time, which led to Penny tracking the island, as well as the freighter.
> 
> So, yes, the hatch was a critical plotline.


I wasn't trying to argue that it wasn't critical, just that it wasn't critical in causing anything bad. Well, at least not worse than if they'd never opened it.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I wasn't trying to argue that it wasn't critical, just that it wasn't critical in causing anything bad. Well, at least not worse than if they'd never opened it.


Granted.

But I also think that because it led to the EMP when Dez turned the failsafe key, that it subsequently led directly to Naomi et. al. locating the island, and their current situation.
_
Can't wait for this week's episode ..._


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

getreal said:


> Granted.
> 
> But I also think that because it led to the EMP when Dez turned the failsafe key, that it subsequently led directly to Naomi et. al. locating the island, and their current situation.


Yes, without opening the hatch none of what has happened this season would have been possible. Which is why I assume Walt warned against it.


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## PKurmas (Apr 24, 2001)

jeff125va said:


> Ben was locked up in the hatch. Michael was out searching for Walt. Michael came back and freed Ben after killing Ana-Lucia and Libby (*who, by the way, are now dead as a result of being killed*). Michael freed Ben, then Ben went back to The Others and Michael took Jack and crew back to The Others and Ben.


I now no longer care who Ben's man on the boat is. I'm going to be laughing until Thursday night about this!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

getreal said:


> Granted.
> 
> But I also think that because it led to the EMP when Dez turned the failsafe key, that it subsequently led directly to Naomi et. al. locating the island, and their current situation.
> _
> Can't wait for this week's episode ..._


Certainly. No hatch, no Desmond. Well, he's still there, but isn't affecting the story line much pushing the button 24/7. My point that got lost in all that is simply that I don't put complete faith in Walt's premonitions.


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

getreal said:


> You all need to check out the LOSTmobisodes.
> ...
> 
> Check 'em out, folks! :up:


Sweet!! Thanks for the link. 
I hadn't watched these yet - well, actually, I'd forgotten all about them.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

I wouldn't doubt that if the man on the boat is Michael, we'll get an entire episode about him and what he's been up to, just like we did with "The Other 48 Days."

If anything Michael might be the man that's has the episode after this Thursday's named after him.



Spoiler



Meet Kevin Johnson


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Going with the presumed theory that Michael is Ben's man on the boat...

Didn't Michael and Walt launch their boat just moments after the sky turned purple with the special electromagnetic energy that we now relate to time travel. Michael and Walt were freshly soaked in this energy when they reached the barrier and the barrier may also have been directly affected by this discharge.

Goning with that... What if Michael/Walt were physically thrown back in time together. And now, this older Michael (wiser?) Michael is now Ben's "Man on the Boat". That could also explain the title of the episodename spoilerized in the above post. That could be Michael's new assumed name.

It would also explain away giant Walt.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Mike Farrington said:


> Goning with that... What if Michael/Walt were *physically* thrown back in time together. And now, this older Michael (wiser?) Michael is now Ben's "Man on the Boat". That could also explain the title of the episodename spoilerized in the above post. That could be Michael's new assumed name.
> 
> It would also explain away giant Walt.


I know it's not safe to assume anything in the Lost world, but based on what was said in _The Constant_, I just don't think the writers are wanting to make anyone be able to *physically* time travel. I think they are going to stick with only the consciousness being able to move through time.

As for "Taller Walt", my current theory on that is that what we are seeing is a future Walt who is managing to project his image (and consciousness) back in time in an effort to guide the losties on the correct path.


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

jking said:


> I know it's not safe to assume anything in the Lost world, but based on what was said in _The Constant_, I just don't think the writers are wanting to make anyone be able to *physically* time travel. I think they are going to stick with only the consciousness being able to move through time.


Have you seen the Orchid video?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> I thought that they already had 8 episodes completed before the writer's strike.


Yes, they did. I'm not sure what you're getting at.


jkeegan said:


> Yup, I thought that too..
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I think you're confused, Jeff. The freighter that Desmond and Sayid are on now is not the Christianne I, which found the wreckage of Flight 815 at the bottom of the ocean. Those two boats are completely unconnected, as far as we know.


jeff125va said:


> Not really. A lot of stuff would have still happened whether they'd opened the hatch or not. They still would have captured Walt. *Ben pretending he was Henry Gale* which led to Michael trading Jack et. al. for Walt didn't really hinge on the hatch. And the freighter people coming and Naomi parachuting onto the island certainly didn't depend on the hatch being opened.


I don't remember the specifics of S2, but I seem to remember getting the impressing that Ben wanted to be captured by the Losties (and thus pretended to be Henry Gale) specifically because he wanted to know what they had found inside the hatch. I thought that was his whole purpose in getting involved with the Losties in the first place.


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought that was his whole purpose in getting involved with the Losties in the first place.


I thought Ben's purpose was to get Jack to perform his needed spinal surgery...

But I also don't get how the Others are supposed to have not known much about the Swan; but they did know about the Pearl...


----------



## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

jking said:


> I know it's not safe to assume anything in the Lost world, but based on what was said in _The Constant_, I just don't think the writers are wanting to make anyone be able to *physically* time travel. I think they are going to stick with only the consciousness being able to move through time.
> 
> As for "Taller Walt", my current theory on that is that what we are seeing is a future Walt who is managing to project his image (and consciousness) back in time in an effort to guide the losties on the correct path.





Mike Farrington said:


> Have you seen the Orchid video?


+1

Hmmmm.........................


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

There's a new audio podcast up. I guess it's early or something. Not a whole lot on it. They did mention


Spoiler



missing pieces #13 with Jack's Dad. They said that it was Jack's Dad that Hurley saw in the cabin, and we will be seeing him again. The man Locke saw in that chair wasn't Christian was he?


----------



## 420s (Feb 22, 2007)

Another one of my few posts  Though I've been reading this forum for years.

Ben is the man on the boat. (C'mon, it's LOST, it supposed to blow your mind)  

Michael is on the boat, but it's not a good thing. 

Sayid can't be the man on the boat, because someone opened the door for them when they were in the sick bay.

Jack should stay with Juliette. She smart. She definately wouldn't kneel down with her back to someone she didn't trust who had a gun. (Eventhough that was a nice pic of Kate earlier in the thread)

I still think the other woman was really there. Remember, the others are sneaky, don't leave footprints and can walk quietly.

Thanks for posting the mobisodes. This was my first time seeing them and it was really enjoyable. Especially when Jin lost his temper. 

I think we will also see Naomi/Regina next episode. Which brings up a question. IIRC, I don't think anyone was suprised or even said anything on the freighter about Naomi being dead. Her code about her sister was just to let them know she was speaking under duress.

Just my two cents.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

420s said:


> Another one of my few posts  Though I've been reading this forum for years.
> 
> Ben is the man on the boat. (C'mon, it's LOST, it supposed to blow your mind)
> 
> ...


Not sure what you mean by "Naomi/Regina" but I do think we'll see Regina soon. Maybe they'll show Naomi's corpse, but I'm not sure why.

Good point about the others being sneaky, perhaps. But usually they had a team of rugged burly types for those missions. But that could still explain it. Juliet wasn't spooked at all and she hadn't been separated from the Others very long (i.e., she probably would have known if Harper were dead).


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

420s said:


> I think we will also see Naomi/Regina next episode. Which brings up a question. IIRC, I don't think anyone was suprised or even said anything on the freighter about Naomi being dead. Her code about her sister was just to let them know she was speaking under duress.


In the opening credits is a woman named Zoe Bell. Have you seen her in the show? You've definitely heard her. You know, on a radio. Sorta like how Fisher Stevens was in the credits but you didn't see him. You heard him on the radio.

Greg


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Mike Farrington said:


> ... was it just me, or were there far more commercials than normal in this episode? *Perhaps this was due to the writers strike? Maybe there was no b-camera beachfront dialog written, just the main storyline. I would imagine that the meat of the episodes are written first, then the inconsequential yet humorous Losties banter is written as needed?*





getreal said:


> I thought that they already had 8 episodes completed before the writer's strike.





DevdogAZ said:


> Yes, they did. I'm not sure what you're getting at.


Hopefully by including more of the post I was responding to, my comment will make more sense to you. 

Basically, that the writer's strike couldn't have affected the writing and number of commercials during the airing of this episode, as the strike took place AFTER this episode had been written and filmed and completed.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> Hopefully by including more of the post I was responding to, my comment will make more sense to you.
> 
> Basically, that the writer's strike couldn't have affected the writing and number of commercials during the airing of this episode, as the strike took place AFTER this episode had been written and filmed and completed.


Gotcha. I would bet that this episode is within a minute of being the same length as the others and Mike Farrington's concerns are unfounded.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Gotcha. I would bet that this episode is within a minute of being the same length as the others and Mike Farrington's concerns are unfounded.


It was just something my wife and I noticed. It could quite possibly have been imagined. I didn't pull out a stopwatch or anything.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> It was just something my wife and I noticed. It could quite possibly have been imagined. I didn't pull out a stopwatch or anything.


Don't know if this is a spoiler or not, but I'll spoilerize this comment from the producers that I think is from a recent podcast. It's a paraphrase from my memory.


Spoiler



We are done telling backstories that don't have anything to do with the main story on the Island.



That slight change in the format of the show might be what threw you or your wife to think something was off in this episode.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Mike Farrington said:


> It was just something my wife and I noticed. It could quite possibly have been imagined. I didn't pull out a stopwatch or anything.


However, Mike, I think you and your wife were correct about there being more commercials. I taped the show without commercials (in Canada, we're just starting to get TiVO), and it came in at about 40 minutes, whereas other episodes had come in at about 42 minutes. So there WAS room for an extra commercial or two. So your spidey-senses were correct. It just didn't have anything to do with the writer's strike.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

getreal said:


> However, Mike, I think you and your wife were correct about there being more commercials. I taped the show without commercials (in Canada, we're just starting to get TiVO), and it came in at about 40 minutes, whereas other episodes had come in at about 42 minutes. So there WAS room for an extra commercial or two. So your spidey-senses were correct. It just didn't have anything to do with the writer's strike.


Well obviously time passes at a different speed in Canada. It's closer to the magnetic north pole, so it makes sense that it would.


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

aindik said:


> At least it's not "lonely tourist Charlotte Charles."


Milk through nose!


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't remember the specifics of S2, but I seem to remember getting the impressing that Ben wanted to be captured by the Losties (and thus pretended to be Henry Gale) specifically because he wanted to know what they had found inside the hatch. I thought that was his whole purpose in getting involved with the Losties in the first place.





latrobe7 said:


> I thought Ben's purpose was to get Jack to perform his needed spinal surgery...
> 
> But I also don't get how the Others are supposed to have not known much about the Swan; but they did know about the Pearl...


There was a scene where Ben and Juliette are in the Pearl and they are looking at video from the Swan. Jack appears on the monitor. Juliette asks if that's him and Ben says yes. If they have realtime video from the Swan, they certainly know what is going on down there. I think this was an episode where Nikki was watching them from the bathroom.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Church AV Guy said:


> There was a scene where Ben and Juliette are in the Pearl and they are looking at video from the Swan. Jack appears on the monitor. Juliette asks if that's him and Ben says yes. If they have realtime video from the Swan, they certainly know what is going on down there. I think this was an episode where Nikki was watching them from the bathroom.


Right, so I guess my question is "When did the Others find out about the Swan & Pearl station?" Since they didn't include the Swan in the purge. Here's a nice summation from Lostpedia (spoilerized for podcast content - even though it's old):


Spoiler



The Others seemed to have little awareness of the purpose or function of the Swan station. However, shortly after the castaways entered the Swan, the Others became aware of what they had done. On November 7, 2004 (three days after the castaways entered the Swan) Tom is known to have used the Pearl to observe the interior of the Swan. Two days later, Ben and Juliet visited the Pearl to briefly observe Jack. Ben at that time outlined a plan which suggests strongly that the Others were able to send messages to the Swan computer from an unknown location. The messages were directed at Michael.

In the March 20, 2007 Official Lost Podcast, Carlton Cuse confirmed that The Others had no knowledge of the Swan station. Hence, Radzinsky, Kelvin Joe Inman, and/or Desmond were not killed during the Purge in which the Others killed off all the DHARMA Initiative workers. During Ben's period of captivity at the Swan, there was a "lockdown" event in which the blast doors inside the swan lowered. Locke was pinned under the blast door and sent Ben through the vent system to push the button. At first, Ben claimed to have pushed the button. But later he told Locke that he had not pushed the button and nothing had happened. He said the station was a joke. What exactly Ben did or did not do during the lockdown has not been revealed.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Right, so I guess my question is "When did the Others find out about the Swan & Pearl station?" Since they didn't include the Swan in the purge. Here's a nice summation from Lostpedia (spoilerized for podcast content - even though it's old):
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



I think it's pretty obvious now that Ben actually did press the button. If he hadn't, wouldn't the sky have turned purple, or something crazy magnetic have happened (like another plane crash)?

Also, I bet the Tempest is where the Others sent messages to the Swan computer.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

aindik said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is involving a past episode so I'm not going to spoilerize...but the sky turning purple didn't have to do with not pushing the button. That happened from the failsafe being activated. But if Ben DIDN'T push the button, we definately would have seen all the metal stuff being pulled towards the magnet. So, yeah...I'm pretty sure Ben pushed the button. And maybe the Others always knew the Swan hatch was there (obviously from the survalence) but maybe they couldn't tell WHERE it was. And if it was kept top secret by DAHRMA, maybe nobody knew what the purpose of it was. And maybe that's why Ben got himself captured...he needed to know what the purpose of that station was once he saw that the Losties had found a way in.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

aindik said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I think Ben pushed the button, too; but how did he know what to do? I mean, maybe he figured it out on-the-fly, but it seemed like he knew what was going on..



Spoiler



The problem with using the Tempest to send the messages to the Swan; is that they supposedly didn't know about the Swan until the Losties found it, but the Others knew about the Tempest since at least the Purge - that is if the assumption that the Tempest was used during the Purge is correct.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Yes, I think Ben pushed the button, too; but how did he know what to do? I mean, maybe he figured it out on-the-fly, but it seemed like he knew what was going on..


The same way you would know how to push the button if you were in there. He watched it on TV. 



latrobe7 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with using the Tempest to send the messages to the Swan; is that they supposedly didn't know about the Swan until the Losties found it, but the Others knew about the Tempest since at least the Purge - that is if the assumption that the Tempest was used during the Purge is correct.


I like the theory that they knew the Swan existed but didn't know where it was. They knew there was a computer somewhere and this code was being entered into it every 108 minutes (perhaps these messages were sent to the computer in the Tempest and they had cameras that showed them the Swan). They could know, from inside the Tempest, that they were sending messages to the Swan without knowing where the Swan was until Locke unburied it.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

latrobe7 said:


> Yes, I think Ben pushed the button, too; but how did he know what to do? I mean, maybe he figured it out on-the-fly, but it seemed like he knew what was going on..


I think Locke told him exactly what to do. I.e., entering the numbers, pressing execute.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Wasn't Ben and his father heading to The Swan in the DHARMA van when the purge took place? I think they just left the two suckers in the station to keep pressing the button. No need to kill them.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

aindik said:


> I think it's pretty obvious now that Ben actually did press the button. If he hadn't, wouldn't the sky have turned purple, or something crazy magnetic have happened (like another plane crash)?
> 
> Also, I bet the Tempest is where the Others sent messages to the Swan computer.


(Spoiler protection removed as it was unnecessary.) The computers in the Tempest site were vastly superior and more modern than the one in the Swan. I seriously doubt that it was the source for the interference messages to Michael.


latrobe7 said:


> Yes, I think Ben pushed the button, too; but how did he know what to do? I mean, maybe he figured it out on-the-fly, but it seemed like he knew what was going on..


Locke told him EXACTLY what to do. It was completely spelled out for him.


jeff125va said:


> I think Locke told him exactly what to do. I.e., entering the numbers, pressing execute.


Correct.


Mike Farrington said:


> Wasn't Ben and his father heading to The Swan in the DHARMA van when the purge took place? I think they just left the two suckers in the station to keep pressing the button. No need to kill them.


His dad said that they were heading for (restocking) the Pearl, not the Swan.


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## 420s (Feb 22, 2007)

jeff125va said:


> Not sure what you mean by "Naomi/Regina" but I do think we'll see Regina soon. Maybe they'll show Naomi's corpse, but I'm not sure why.


I said that because I believe that Naomi and Regina are the same person. The voices were exactly alike , and when they were talking about putting her body on the chopper, someone (I think the pilot) said something along the lines of ,"Why should we bring her. It's just a piece of meat". Add that to the orchid video and you get the theory of Naomi and Regina being the same person.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

420s said:


> I said that because I believe that Naomi and Regina are the same person. The voices were exactly alike , and when they were talking about putting her body on the chopper, someone (I think the pilot) said something along the lines of ,"Why should we bring her. It's just a piece of meat". Add that to the orchid video and you get the theory of Naomi and Regina being the same person.


Except they're not the same person. Regina is played by Zoe Bell, credited at the beginning of the episodes in which you hear her on the radio. Sorry I didn't spell it out more clearly in my previous post.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> I think Locke told him exactly what to do. I.e., entering the numbers, pressing execute.





Church AV Guy said:


> Locke told him EXACTLY what to do. It was completely spelled out for him.


Yes, I had forgotten that; I guess what sticks in my mind is that Ben seemed unfazed by the whole lockdown experience.


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## rjom (Feb 28, 2004)

Originally Posted by philw1776 
Me, I'd take that murderess Kate if forced to choose.



JYoung said:


> Let's see if you feel the same way after she gets you worked up and then goes and jumps in the sack with someone else.
> 
> Yep, I would feel the same way.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

420s said:


> I said that because I believe that Naomi and Regina are the same person. The voices were exactly alike , and when they were talking about putting her body on the chopper, someone (I think the pilot) said something along the lines of ,"Why should we bring her. It's just a piece of meat". Add that to the orchid video and you get the theory of Naomi and Regina being the same person.


Naomi was dead when they talked to Regina on the phone. She died as a result of the knife Locke threw in her back. Add that to Regina being alive (as evidenced by her talking on the phone) and you realize that they are not the same person.

The pilot simply meant that with a limited amount of weight the helicopter could carry, the cold reality was that Naomi's body was just a corpse, not a living person and it made more sense to bring the living than the dead. They ended up taking her body anyway because Miles was with Locke and Dan and Charlotte decided to stay, so there was room after all.


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## jpwoof (May 19, 2004)

this is just my speculation, but I think Ben's spy is Sayid.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think you're confused, Jeff. The freighter that Desmond and Sayid are on now is not the Christianne I, which found the wreckage of Flight 815 at the bottom of the ocean. Those two boats are completely unconnected, as far as we know.


you're right, i'm not sure I remember what I was thinking..


420s said:


> I still think the other woman was really there. Remember, the others are sneaky, don't leave footprints and can walk quietly.


Everyone keeps referring to the therapist (Goodwin's wife) as "the other woman".. Nah, I thought the title was about Juliette being the other woman - Goodwin was married. Jack loves Kate. She's an "other".  (mainly the first two)


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> you're right, i'm not sure I remember what I was thinking..


well, this show is so simple, I don't know how you can't get everything straight on this show...


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> you're right, i'm not sure I remember what I was thinking..


You are (still) thinking of the number 2. 



jkeegan said:


> Everyone keeps referring to the therapist (Goodwin's wife) as "the other woman".. Nah, I thought the title was about Juliette being the other woman - Goodwin was married. Jack loves Kate. She's an "other".  (mainly the first two)


I'm totally with you on this one - in my mind the title definitely referred to Juliette.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jpwoof said:


> this is just my speculation, but I think Ben's spy is Sayid.


Saying (as some have speculated) that Ben's "man on the boat" may have actually been a woman is one thing. But I can't imagine that he didn't mean the "on the boat" part literally.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> Everyone keeps referring to the therapist (Goodwin's wife) as "the other woman".. Nah, I thought the title was about Juliette being the other woman - Goodwin was married. Jack loves Kate. She's an "other".  (mainly the first two)


Definitely, but I knew whom the poster whom you quoted was referring to from previous context.

And yes, mainly the first two, since Harper is also an "Other." It normally wouldn't make much sense to refer to the wife as "the other woman." And Jack and Kate aren't married, of course, but Kate was "there" first.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

jpwoof said:


> this is just my speculation, but I think Ben's spy is Sayid.


How could that be possible since Sayid was still on the island when Ben told Locke the names of everyone on the landing party, and that they had come for him. There was a lot of very specific information that Ben had, that Sayid had no access to. Sayid and Ben didn't even have any contact. I just don't see how it's possible outside of multiple instances of Sayid being in existence simultaneously. I THINK that would bend the rules past the breaking point, even for Lost.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Yes, I had forgotten that; I guess what sticks in my mind is that Ben seemed unfazed by the whole lockdown experience.


Ben is unfazed by nearly _everything_.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Anything other than p***y.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Anything other than p***y.


He got pretty pissy when Locke heard Jacob, too.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Church AV Guy said:


> How could that be possible since Sayid was still on the island when Ben told Locke the names of everyone on the landing party, and that they had come for him. There was a lot of very specific information that Ben had, that Sayid had no access to. Sayid and Ben didn't even have any contact. I just don't see how it's possible outside of multiple instances of Sayid being in existence simultaneously. I THINK that would bend the rules past the breaking point, even for Lost.


People have theorized that it's Naomi (dead), Ana-Lucia (dead), Libby (dead), Sayid (all the reasons in your post), Locke (maybe that was satirical of the other theories?) and probably some other similar ones I'm forgetting. There may be a lot of unexplained things in this show, but most things turn out to make sense eventually. I don't understand how Naomi, A-L, Libby, Sayid, or Locke could possibly make sense ever.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> People have theorized that it's Naomi (dead), Ana-Lucia (dead), Libby (dead), Sayid (all the reasons in your post), Locke (maybe that was satirical of the other theories?) and probably some other similar ones I'm forgetting. There may be a lot of unexplained things in this show, but most things turn out to make sense eventually. I don't understand how Naomi, A-L, Libby, Sayid, or Locke could possibly make sense ever.


Don't forget the "Ben's man on the boat is Ben" theory.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

aindik said:


> Don't forget the "Ben's man on the boat is Ben" theory.


Though, since they had a picture of who they were after, one would think they would keep a close eye on such a doppleganger on the boat (thus not allowing him to spy and send reports).


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

The man on the boat is Vincent.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

MickeS said:


> The man on the boat is Vincent.


Now you're really barking up the wrong tree. 

How about it being Randy? Randy was Locke's boss (and Hurley's). He's been interwoven through multiple episodes and it would certainly make for a Lostian twist for him to be the man on the boat.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Aaron is the man on the boat; back from the future to prevent his mothers death.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Aaron is the man on the boat; back from the future to prevent his mothers death.


Come with me if you want to live.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

No, wait! The man on the boat is Kate's dad, not the one she killed, but the Army dad; he's been part of the same conspiracy Kelvin was, but turned on them and started working for Ben when Kate ended up on the island.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

aindik said:


> Come with me if you want to live.


Great Scott!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

danterner said:


> Now you're really barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> How about it being Randy? Randy was Locke's boss (and Hurley's). He's been interwoven through multiple episodes and it would certainly make for a Lostian twist for him to be the man on the boat.


That would be a little too out of left field, even for Lost. But, I can't really think of any reason that it _couldn't_ be Randy. At least he's alive. 

We did see Randy in "The Beginning of the End" if you recall. He was filming/taping Hurley's high-speed car chase. Not that that disqualifies him, and I think it's so unlikely anyway that it really doesn't make it any less so. But that would CERTAINLY be "sit down" shocking for Locke!


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

You all must've heard Ben incorrectly.

He said "I have Iman on the boat". David Bowie's wife, supermodel Iman. Period. End of speculation. 

And the part of Iman will be played by ... Harold Perrineau.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

getreal said:


> You all must've heard Ben incorrectly.
> 
> He said "I have Iman on the boat". David Bowie's wife, supermodel Iman. Period. End of speculation.


No, he said he had an imam on the boat. A gaunt imam.


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## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

I think that it is important that both Ben and Miles said *exactly* the same thing...well, if we presume that Harper was telling the truth -- that they are "exactly where they want to be" -- even though they are both being held against their will. This would suggest, as someone mentioned earlier, that maybe they were talking in code when Miles was asking for the $3.2M.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

"I'm exactly where I want to be" is a code phrase just like "Tell my sister I love her"; after Miles gave Ben the password, Ben passed it on to Harper who passed it to Juliet.

And Ben didn't say 'Iman' or 'imam'; he said 'Inman', as in Kelvin Inman, the dude in the Hatch with Desmond. Obviously, he's the man on the boat!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

latrobe7 said:


> And Ben didn't say 'Iman' or 'imam'; he said 'Inman', as in Kelvin Inman, the dude in the Hatch with Desmond. Obviously, he's the man on the boat!


So you're saying Inman is a Goth?!?


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> So you're saying Inman is a Goth?!?


I'm saying he exists in a goth/gaunt quantum time-space loop where he is BOTH!


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

You're all wrong
Sun is the man on the boat and she did not have sex with Ben.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Leonard Simms is the man on the boat; he is the one that wrecked the radio room after the numbers broadcast was interupted; in his future he will tell Hurley about the numbers while at the Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute. Everybody on the boat has an alias; Regina is Rousseau and is pregnant with Alex; the freighter is the ship that shipwrecks on the island and Minkowski is the first victim of the sickness.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

danterner said:


> Now you're really barking up the wrong tree.


That was so bad it made me laugh.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> You're all wrong
> Sun is the man on the boat and she did not have sex with Ben.


Well obviously, because Ben's not gay.

But he did have sex with his man on the boat's lover.


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## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

I am the man on the boat. That is all.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Did anybody notice that during Harpers appears to Juliet in the jungle, Harper's hair kept flicking around super-fast? I took that as another indication that her appearance was supernatural. It's like they shot her talking in slow-motion, then ramped it up to look like she was talking normally.


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