# TiVo Roamio - Network Issues



## ultrajones

I just setup my new TiVo Roamio - Plus and experienced multiple issues. I essentially removed a Tivo 4 and replaced it with a Tivo Roamio, so I know all the connections work. The first software and guide update completed without any issues. However, it took *hours* with multiple forced connections and reboots to get the Tivo to activate so I could use it. Once activated, I noticed several messages indicating the Tivo was losing network connection to the network. Those messages lasted only a few seconds before it appeared the network was restored. I tried streaming from my other Tivo and it wouldn't let me because it stated the network wasn't working. In addition, Netflix and Hulu would play about 15-30 seconds of a show before indicating a general failure.

I had my Tivo connected to the network as follows:

Tivo 5 <-> NETGEAR GS108Ev2 <-> NETGEAR GS116E <-> Home Router

I even flashed both NETGEAR devices above to the latest firmware, but that didn't resolve the issues.

I was able to resolve all the network issues by simply moving the network connection from the NETGEAR device to my Apple AirPort Extreme.

Tivo 5 <-> AirPort Extreme <-> NETGEAR GS116E <-> Home Router

It looks like the Tivo doesn't like my NETGEAR GS108Ev2 switch.

I hope this may help others that are experiencing issues getting their Tivo Roamio activated.

Regards,
Ultrajones


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## aaronwt

Is it a green switch? Some people have had issues with the Roamio and green switches. I was one of them. As soon as I switched my Green switch to a non green switch my network problems went away with my Roamio Pro.


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## ultrajones

Hmm, yes. the description states: "ProSafe Plus Switches have power-saving Green Ethernet technology".


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## TC25D

GS116E is 'green'. 

Should TiVo work with green switches? Yes. But, really, what's the point of a 'green' switch for home use?


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## stoli412

I'm really surprised at the number of reports of networking issues when using a green switch with the Roamio, myself included. Is this a common issue with other networking equipment? Or is there possibly something quirky with the Ethernet controller TiVo is using on the Roamio?


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## TC25D

stoli412 said:


> I'm really surprised at the number of reports of networking issues when using a green switch with the Roamio, myself included. Is this a common issue with other networking equipment? Or is there possibly something quirky with the Ethernet controller TiVo is using on the Roamio?


The quirkiness is probably at the switch end, i.e., the TiVo barfs on one, or both, of the following 'green features', that make no sense for a home environment.

1. It detects link status, allowing each port on the switch to power down into a standby or 'sleep' mode when a connected device, such as a computer, is not active.

2. It detects cable length and adjusts the power accordingly.


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## aaronwt

TC25D said:


> The quirkiness is probably at the switch end, i.e., the TiVo barfs on one, or both, of the following 'green features', that make no sense for a home environment.
> 
> 1. It detects link status, allowing each port on the switch to power down into a standby or 'sleep' mode when a connected device, such as a computer, is not active.
> 
> 2. It detects cable length and adjusts the power accordingly.


I thought the entire point is to save power? So if I have an eight port switch with only two connections, You save power by not using the other six ports. I use at least sixteen mini switches at home, 8 port and 5 port. But all my ports but half a dozen or so are in use, so I don't think a few ports save me much energy.


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## NYHeel

I'm having significant trouble with my wired connection on a green 8 port switch. I'm dropping my connection constantly and transfers are stopping and really slowing the box down.

This is really weird because my Premiere is on the same switch and works perfectly fine.

It's also really annoying because I don't have another switch and don't want to have to go buy another one. Plus stores in my county (Bergen) are closed on Sunday so it's going to be a pain to get a new one or I have to wait for Amazon. Plus these switches aren't so cheap as I need an 8 port one.


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## aaronwt

NYHeel said:


> I'm having significant trouble with my wired connection on a green 8 port switch. I'm dropping my connection constantly and transfers are stopping and really slowing the box down.
> 
> This is really weird because my Premiere is on the same switch and works perfectly fine.
> 
> It's also really annoying because I don't have another switch and don't want to have to go buy another one. Plus stores in my county (Bergen) are closed on Sunday so it's going to be a pain to get a new one or I have to wait for Amazon. Plus these switches aren't so cheap as I need an 8 port one.


My two tuner Premiere and four tuner Premiere ELite also had no issues on the green switch that caused issues with my Romaio Pro. But once I changed to a non green switch, my Romaio had no more network issues.

But I was also fortunate to have a box of at least two dozen old Netgear and DLink Gigabit switches I've replaced over the years. So I didn't have to worry about trying to find a new switch.

I used to use Linksys gigabit switches(which were first gen and had fans in them so they were a little noisy), then switched those out to Netgear Gigabit switches(which were white but could be placed vertically), then switched those out to Dlink Gigabit switches. And then when Dlink came out with a new design that I liked better, I switched everything out again to the newer gigabit Dlinks. I certainly did not expect to need to go back to an older switch.


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## PHeadland

There are several other threads here about this issue.

We have TRENDnet TEG-S80g "green" gigabit switches, and our Roamio Pro keeps dropping the network connection. An S3 HD plugged into the same switch has no problems, nor does a PC, and we have tried multiple cables, ports, etc.

I just got off a call with one of TiVo's excellent support people. He made a note of the threads here and will push this up the chain so it can be investigated.

We resolved the situation temporarily by adding an old 100 Mbps switch between the Roamio and the main gigabit switch. I think TC25D (above) is on the right track with why this happens. My theory is that the switch drops power on the port t save energy and TiVo thinks that means the switch has been powered down and connection is lost. Fingers crossed that this can be fixed by a driver update.


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## NYHeel

PHeadland said:


> There are several other threads here about this issue.
> 
> We have TRENDnet TEG-S80g "green" gigabit switches, and our Roamio Pro keeps dropping the network connection. An S3 HD plugged into the same switch has no problems, nor does a PC, and we have tried multiple cables, ports, etc.
> 
> I just got off a call with one of TiVo's excellent support people. He made a note of the threads here and will push this up the chain so it can be investigated.
> 
> We resolved the situation temporarily by adding an old 100 Mbps switch between the Roamio and the main gigabit switch. I think TC25D (above) is on the right track with why this happens. My theory is that the switch drops power on the port t save energy and TiVo thinks that means the switch has been powered down and connection is lost. Fingers crossed that this can be fixed by a driver update.


So it worked for you plugging the Roamio into a regular non-green switch and then plugging that switch into the green one which goes to your router? I just thought I'd have to completely bypass the green switch but you're saying that you can cascade the switches and even though the green one is still in the path from Roamio to router it still works?


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## aaronwt

NYHeel said:


> So it worked for you plugging the Roamio into a regular non-green switch and then plugging that switch into the green one which goes to your router? I just thought I'd have to completely bypass the green switch but you're saying that you can cascade the switches and even though the green one is still in the path from Roamio to router it still works?


It's only the switch that the Romaio is directly connected too. My Roamio pro is connected to a non green switch. But that non green switch runs through two Green switches before connecting to a port on my router.


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## uw69

What would be a recommended switch to use? Any hope Tivo will fix this issue? Thanks


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## mburnno

I personally find the talk of the Green Switch problem BullSh*t. I say this out of frustration with the Tivo not working like it should. I for one have a green switch and everything worked fine for years with Tivo until I upgraded to the Roamio Plus. 

Why is it when networking is concern with Tivo's the first thing everybody says is the "switch" is the problem or the "network cable" is the problem? Why can't it just be buggy software on the Tivo side?

Does anybody just find it kind of odd that multiple people in different threads have a green switch and everything was working fine until they upgraded to the new Roamio and then all hell broke loose with network issue? Sure some people may have fixed their problem by replacing their switch but did they really fix the problem by swapping out the switch? I refuse to believe it is the green switch when all of the past Tivo's work fine until now.

Come on Tivo step up to the plate and say that you have a problem and please don't tell us the solution is to buy a new switch.


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## MScottC

mburno, nobody is saying the switches are the sole fault. All we are saying is that they are part of the issue. Obviously TiVo is also part of the equation. We're just trying to help people figure out how to get their systems running. If it means bypassing a switch that doesn't play well with TiVo, so be it. I for one already called TiVo Technical Support and told them of the issue, and what I did to work my way around it. 

I happen to work in a fairly high end technical video environment, and any time any new gear is added, we expect that something will go unexpectedly wrong. If manufacturers like TiVo waited till they caught every single possible problem, they'd never be able to release anything. The true story with this issue will be told when TiVo does one of two things, either issues a software update that deals with the issue, or issues a statement that claims the hardware they chose isn't compatible with green switches and post that users need to avoid the green switches. I'd hope for former, but if the latter is the answer, then at least they're being honest with their consumers, and you really can't ask for more than that. If they whitewash the issue, then your rant becomes valid. Till then, show TiVo a bit of slack.


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## aaronwt

mburnno said:


> I personally find the talk of the Green Switch problem BullSh*t. I say this out of frustration with the Tivo not working like it should. I for one have a green switch and everything worked fine for years with Tivo until I upgraded to the Roamio Plus.
> 
> Why is it when networking is concern with Tivo's the first thing everybody says is the "switch" is the problem or the "network cable" is the problem? Why can't it just be buggy software on the Tivo side?
> 
> Does anybody just find it kind of odd that multiple people in different threads have a green switch and everything was working fine until they upgraded to the new Roamio and then all hell broke loose with network issue? Sure some people may have fixed their problem by replacing their switch but did they really fix the problem by swapping out the switch? I refuse to believe it is the green switch when all of the past Tivo's work fine until now.
> 
> Come on Tivo step up to the plate and say that you have a problem and please don't tell us the solution is to buy a new switch.


???
I've used the Dlink green switch for a while with no issues with other TiVos. And when I connected the Roamio to an older Dlink green switch that I had used for years with no problems from devices the Roamio also had the same issues. But when I connected the Roamio to an old Netgear Non green switch there were no issues although the transfer rates were around 3% slower. And when I connected it to a Dlink non green switch, it was also fine. The Dlink switch did not have the 3% hit in transfer speeds so I still get the 190Mb/s+ transfer rates instead of the 185Mb/s transfer rates the Netgear gave me.

Obviously the Roamio should be able to work with the green switches. They have been around for years. The problem is not the switches but the TiVo Romaio. But the only way to fix the issue right now is to use a non green switch. I'm not about to wait around for TiVo to fix it when I already have a solution that works.


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## TC25D

mburnno said:


> Why can't it just be buggy software on the Tivo side?


No one said it wasn't a TiVo software issue.

Feel free to sit there with your green switch, your TiVo problem and blame Tivo if that makes you feel better.


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## jmpage2

TC25D said:


> No one said it wasn't a TiVo software issue.
> 
> Feel free to sit there with your green switch, your TiVo problem and blame Tivo if that makes you feel better.


The flip side is that you are saying "home users don't need green switches" which is preposterous. Nearly all affordable gigabit ethernet switches that are aimed towards residential use these days have green features which seem to be causing the problems.

I am fortunate that the switch my TiVo is on does not seem to be causing me trouble, but it is a green switch. My central rack mount switch (24 port) is also green switch. The switches in my home office, master bedroom are also green. Any decent switch you buy today is "green" in that it has link power saving features and shuts ports off that are not in use.

What's the "point" of all those green switches? Maybe the 50+ watts of power savings for devices that are on continuously. While electricity might be cheap for you, there are places in the US where summertime rates approach .40 per kwh, which means even a few watts here and there on vampire devices adds up to several dollars or more per month on the power bill.

From the description of the trouble this does sound like a NIC driver problem on the TiVo. Another workaround for people would be to use Wi-Fi until TiVo gets a fix for this, which hopefully they will.


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## TC25D

jmpage2 said:


> The flip side is that you are saying "home users don't need green switches" which is preposterous.


"Need" - No most home users do not "need" green switches, so it's not 'preposterous'. Just because a vendor offers them, which allows the vendor to spread their costs across business and residential customers, doesn't imply they are "needed" by home owners. There are far more effective places to save electricity than green switches.


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## jmpage2

TC25D said:


> "Need" - No most home users do not "need" green switches, so it's not 'preposterous'. Just because a vendor offers them, which allows the vendor to spread their costs across business and residential customers, doesn't imply they are "needed" by home owners. There are far more effective places to save electricity than green switches.


A good many of the top selling Ethernet switches on Amazon.com are green switches. Many of the switches available at Best Buy and Staples are also green switches.

Why should the consumer balk at buying a "Green" switch that saves a few watts.... because there are a few oddball (broken) devices out there that might not play well with them?

Your argument is silly. Gigabit Ethernet, auto MDIX crossover and most other features that are now standard on home networking gear (and make for faster easier networking) also came from enterprise networking gear. Guess consumers don't need those either?


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## NYHeel

So everything is working now that I switched to an old Netgear 10/100 switch. I'm in the process of transferring from my 2 premieres. I'm getting about 85Mb/s. Is that what I should be getting? I have a lot to transfer so the faster the better.


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## Fsron

I dont own a switch yet, but was going to buy one from amazon today. I was looking at a 10/100 from Cisco, but it appears to be a green switch. They all appear to be green. Any better suggestions?


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## jmpage2

Fsron said:


> I dont own a switch yet, but was going to buy one from amazon today. I was looking at a 10/100 from Cisco, but it appears to be a green switch. They all appear to be green. Any better suggestions?


I have a green switch that is working, I can get the model # later today. Otherwise get a "non green" switch... most of the 10/100 ones are non-green anyway, I would go with one of the older blue metal cased Netgear switches, they are highly reliable.


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## NYHeel

I really hope Tivo fixes this bug soon. While I understand that bugs get through testing this one is pretty bad, especially considering that Premieres work fine on the same ethernet hardware. Plus I'd like to remove the extra switch from my cabinet as it's quite crowded in there already.


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## aaronwt

NYHeel said:


> So everything is working now that I switched to an old Netgear 10/100 switch. I'm in the process of transferring from my 2 premieres. I'm getting about 85Mb/s. Is that what I should be getting? I have a lot to transfer so the faster the better.


Yes those are standard transfer speeds from the Premiere. When transferring to/from a PC though with the Roamio Plus/Pro speeds are more than twice as fast.


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## jmpage2

jmpage2 said:


> I have a green switch that is working, I can get the model # later today. Otherwise get a "non green" switch... most of the 10/100 ones are non-green anyway, I would go with one of the older blue metal cased Netgear switches, they are highly reliable.


I just checked and the switch I am using on my Roamio Plus is a 10/100/1000 DLINK green switch. 8 port model, appears to be this one;

http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-8-Port...1378830724&sr=8-1&keywords=dlink+green+switch

I am not having any trouble with it I am aware of. Netflix HD streams are working great on my Roamio and I have not observed any network disconnects.


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## aaronwt

jmpage2 said:


> I just checked and the switch I am using on my Roamio Plus is a 10/100/1000 DLINK green switch. 8 port model, appears to be this one;
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-8-Port...1378830724&sr=8-1&keywords=dlink+green+switch
> 
> I am not having any trouble with it I am aware of. Netflix HD streams are working great on my Roamio and I have not observed any network disconnects.


That is the model Dlink that I had issues with. What Hardware version is it? Mine is a B1 Hardware version.

I had to find an old A2 Hardware version, from the previous gen Dlink, to get one that would work.

If one of my other newer Dlink switches is the same hardware version as yous I can try swapping that out from another location and using that with my Roamio Pro.


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## jmpage2

I can't determine the hardware version because it is in a pretty inaccessible location. According to Amazon it was purchased on March 30th of 2012.


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## tbielowicz

Same here, I have the D-Link 8 port and have issues, but they are specific to streaming and downloading on my iPAD. Mine was purchased from Amazon on 4/2011.

If I have the Tivo on (not in standby), it connects ok. By ok, it might download 2-3 shows before a download failure. If it is in Standby mode, I keep getting errors and it cannot connect.

My Elite had no issues at all and seemed to work better.


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## aaronwt

Just a quick check of some of my switches and they all seem to be version B1 hardware for me.
I got all of mine last Summer. So I'm guessing they are probably all the same hardware version.

The older one I'm using now I got in 2007.

Edit: And the older Netgear gigabit switch that worked I got in 2004/2005.

EDIT: I guess I'll just leave the older link in place for the Roamio. It's working fine so I might as well keep it there and use it. Although the design isn't as nice as the newer Dlink switches.


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## jmpage2

tbielowicz said:


> Same here, I have the D-Link 8 port and have issues, but they are specific to streaming and downloading on my iPAD. Mine was purchased from Amazon on 4/2011.
> 
> If I have the Tivo on (not in standby), it connects ok. By ok, it might download 2-3 shows before a download failure. If it is in Standby mode, I keep getting errors and it cannot connect.
> 
> My Elite had no issues at all and seemed to work better.


Well at least we found someone who uses the TiVo in standby mode 

What is the error/failure you get when downloading to the iPad? I will try to reproduce since I have the same switch.


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## tbielowicz

Part of the issue is that the errors are not consistent. The first one said that it could not connect. Then it said that my TiVo stream was overheating. The latest even when turned on gives me download failure on some videos. 

I will check it out again when I return home on Thursday.


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## jfh3

I have all green switches, including 2 TRENDnet 16 port switches and Netgear ProSafe.

A Roamio Basic and Pro are on one of the 16 port switches.

ZERO networking problems so far; doesn't matter if either of the Roamios are in standby or not. I thought I had a problem with the basic at one point, but it turned out to be a bad Ethernet cable.

Sorry, don't buy "green switches are a problem".


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## tbielowicz

Just got back in town.

When I first tried to watch a show on my iPAD, it couldn't connect. I then did the troubleshooting device setup selection and it was able to connect. It would do this with the TiVo Stream as well. Maybe if I am off network for too long, I have to reconnect?

I have loaded 5 shows to transfer and 2 have transferred without an issue. My TiVo Roamio is in standby and seems to be working well. So I guess all is working well, even with a "green" switch. I just hope it stays that way.


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## PHeadland

jfh3 said:


> I have all green switches ... Sorry, don't buy "green switches are a problem".


And your grandfather smoked 60 a day and lived to be 100, so cigarettes don't cause lung cancer.

The fact remains that some of us have experienced network connectivity problems with Roamios connected to "green" switches and have been able to resolve those problems by using non-"green" switches. So clearly there is an issue with at least some combinations of Roamios and switches. Equally clearly, this is a TiVo defect, because it has been seen with multiple brands of switches and people who have seen these problems have had zero problems with any other devices on the same switches.

The only question in my mind is whether this issue relates in any way to gigabit switches. I have managed to borrow an older gigabit switch that is not "green"; I will be testing with that tomorrow.


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## wmhjr

PHeadland said:


> And your grandfather smoked 60 a day and lived to be 100, so cigarettes don't cause lung cancer.
> 
> The fact remains that some of us have experienced network connectivity problems with Roamios connected to "green" switches and have been able to resolve those problems by using non-"green" switches. So clearly there is an issue with at least some combinations of Roamios and switches. Equally clearly, this is a TiVo defect, because it has been seen with multiple brands of switches and people who have seen these problems have had zero problems with any other devices on the same switches.
> 
> The only question in my mind is whether this issue relates in any way to gigabit switches. I have managed to borrow an older gigabit switch that is not "green"; I will be testing with that tomorrow.


You are spot on - though this is not just a Roamio issue. It is clearly a Tivo issue. And you are so correct that this is not an issue with different switch manufacturers - it is a Tivo defect which seems to somehow span the Tivo product family - including Premieres. I've been reporting issues for well over a year (actually, far longer than that, but singularly with a single unit for multiple calls spanning 18 months or so now). Tivo just kind of evaporates - support has been of zero help. They actually state that they "don't support switches".


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## Devx

wmhjr said:


> You are spot on - though this is not just a Roamio issue. It is clearly a Tivo issue. And you are so correct that this is not an issue with different switch manufacturers - it is a Tivo defect which seems to somehow span the Tivo product family - including Premieres. I've been reporting issues for well over a year (actually, far longer than that, but singularly with a single unit for multiple calls spanning 18 months or so now). Tivo just kind of evaporates - support has been of zero help. They actually state that they "don't support switches".


That's very interesting. Was it one of the later 4 tuner Premieres? My Elite/XL4 was plugged into the same switch as the Roamio, a Trendnet green TEG-S80g switch and never had a problem. It's a launch Elite, so it was connected to the same switch for almost 2 yrs at this point.


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## PHeadland

wmhjr said:


> this is not just a Roamio issue


Interesting - my old HD is working fine on the TRENDnet switch that makes the Roamio barf.

FWIW the support guy I spoke to took me seriously, and said he would pass the issue back to engineering. That said, I haven't had any further response several days later.


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## wmhjr

Devx said:


> That's very interesting. Was it one of the later 4 tuner Premieres? My Elite/XL4 was plugged into the same switch as the Roamio, a Trendnet green TEG-S80g switch and never had a problem. It's a launch Elite, so it was connected to the same switch for almost 2 yrs at this point.


Yes, I suppose it was. I got an elite also, but it failed and was replaced after close to a year with an XL4. Then, I picked up my 2nd XL4 when I decided to go the mini route and encountered the ridiculous lack of DTA, which IMHO cripples Premieres. BTW, I've found that this issue can happen with a number of switches. A Cisco Gig 24 port switch, a Linksys gig 12 port, an old Linksys 8 port. Two of the 3 are obviously not "green" switches. Bottom line is that I've experienced network problems with XL4s, Premieres and minis on a very common basis regardless of the network. Seems as though there is very little rhyme or reason about it. Except that the common failure is always - always - the Tivo.


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## wmhjr

PHeadland said:


> Interesting - my old HD is working fine on the TRENDnet switch that makes the Roamio barf.
> 
> FWIW the support guy I spoke to took me seriously, and said he would pass the issue back to engineering. That said, I haven't had any further response several days later.


Now that you mention it, I'm not sure that I experience most of these issues with my HDs. I'm not using them at the moment so it's hard to say. As far as "pass the issue back to engineering", I would not even remotely consider that as being "taken seriously". I can't even count the number of times I've been told that. I have yet to see a single instance where anything resulted from that.


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## PHeadland

I tested with an old LinkSys 24-port gigabit switch yesterday. No problems at all. So in our case it's definitely a combination of the Roamio and a "green" switch. I am tempted to try and find a "green" 10/100 switch to determine whether it's related to the use of a gigabit port.

I wish Margret would chip in to let us know if TiVo is actually looking in to this issue - I am spending way too much time on this.


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## stoli412

I see a lot of mentions of the TrendNet 8-port gigabit green switch, myself included. I've tested the 5-port version of the exact same make/model without issue. I wonder if there is some incompatibility between the Roamio and the chipset used in the TrendNet (and perhaps shared with other brands that are experiencing problems).

I switched to a cheapo Monoprice 8-port gigabit "green" switch and haven't had any trouble, so it's definitely not all "green" switches.


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## PHeadland

I have found that the easiest way to test for the problem is using YouTube - just set a long 1080p video running (I used one on Glacier National Park) and leave it for a while (you don't need to sit and watch). If the network connection chokes, you will find an error message on screen when you return.


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## Devx

stoli412 said:


> I see a lot of mentions of the TrendNet 8-port gigabit green switch, myself included. I've tested the 5-port version of the exact same make/model without issue. I wonder if there is some incompatibility between the Roamio and the chipset used in the TrendNet (and perhaps shared with other brands that are experiencing problems).
> 
> I switched to a cheapo Monoprice 8-port gigabit "green" switch and haven't had any trouble, so it's definitely not all "green" switches.


In one of the other threads someone identified that they too were using a green switch without issue. It doesn't seem to be all green switches and even for those experiencing problems, some are affected more severely than others.


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## Devx

PHeadland said:


> I have found that the easiest way to test for the problem is using YouTube - just set a long 1080p video running (I used one on Glacier National Park) and leave it for a while (you don't need to sit and watch). If the network connection chokes, you will find an error message on screen when you return.


We may need to be careful here. How long is the video? I can stream a full hour show on a Trendnet green switch without issue sometimes, and other times, within 10-15 minutes there is a problem.


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## tonestert

Anyone know where to find a non-green gigabit 8 port switch ?


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## PHeadland

Devx said:


> We may need to be careful here. How long is the video? I can stream a full hour show on a Trendnet green switch without issue sometimes, and other times, within 10-15 minutes there is a problem.


Wow - you are lucky! It takes less than 5 minutes to crap out of YouTube on my setup. I think the documentary I referenced is about 50 minutes.


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## PHeadland

tonestert said:


> Anyone know where to find a non-green gigabit 8 port switch ?


This one doesn't appear to be green (I checked the manufacturer's web site and the manual): www.amazon.com/Tenda-G1008D-Desktop-Unmanaged-Ethernet/dp/B006KAP54A/


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## russg

There can easily be issues with 802.11.az or "Green Ethernet". The internets is full of odd things and for good reason. Lots of SOHO switch manufacturers jumped on the "Green Ethernet" trend prior to the ratification of 802.11az. The technology is suppose to be able to detect line length and with some signalling, put interfaces in sleep mode. Of course this means both ends need to be compatible and not have any bugs to make it all work.

Switches of the same model from the same manufacturer can have different firmware. If you have a "Green Switch" and are having problems you can try to A) disable the green feature if possible, B) upgrade the firmware of the switch if possible, C) replace the switch with one that is either non-green or known to work.

My Roamio Plus is plugged into an old Netgear GS108T gig-e switch which then connects to the house primary Cisco 3570 switch. The mini is connected to a new Netgear 5 port gig-e switch which is a pro-safe GS105 that has auto-power down. Neither of mine are experiencing issues.


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## tonestert

PHeadland said:


> This one doesn't appear to be green (I checked the manufacturer's web site and the manual): www.amazon.com/Tenda-G1008D-Desktop-Unmanaged-Ethernet/dp/B006KAP54A/


Thanks ! May have to buy that one.


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## TiVoMargret

Just a quick note to reassure everyone we are actively looking at the "Green switch" issue. Sorry for the trouble -- and thanks for your patience!

--Margret


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## Beryl

I had a "network issue' today. 

It successfully connected to TiVo Service but I was unable to access the HDUI features. TiVo Support suspected it was the switch and recommended going wireless since I don't have MoCA gear. That seemed to resolve the problem but I may need to set a permanent IP and/port forwarding if it didn't. Ethernet with a Netgear GS108NA ProSafe 8-Port Gigabit switch works great with other things (Roku, Apple TV, Vulkano, a camera hub, and TiVo HDXL) but apparently not the Roamio Plus. 

I'm feeling a firmware update imminent to resolve these "network issues."


----------



## jmpage2

TiVoMargret said:


> Just a quick note to reassure everyone we are actively looking at the "Green switch" issue. Sorry for the trouble -- and thanks for your patience!
> 
> --Margret


Many thanks. It would be helpful if TiVo CSRs were not telling customers that TiVo is not supported when connected to a switch, and posting that in the forums.


----------



## PHeadland

TiVoMargret said:


> Just a quick note to reassure everyone we are actively looking at the "Green switch" issue.


That's great, thanks Margret!


----------



## civerson4

I am also having issues with the Green switches (Roamio/Minis). No problems with anything else connected to the switch--including another media player. This is definitely a TIVO issue.

I have both Netgear GS105/108 switches (plus a managed Dlink 24 Port backbone switch). Full gigabit network that works perfectly--except with Roamio/Mini.


----------



## civerson4

civerson4 said:


> I am also having issues with the Green switches (Roamio/Minis). No problems with anything else connected to the switch--including another media player. This is definitely a TIVO issue.
> 
> I have both Netgear GS105/108 switches (plus a managed Dlink 24 Port backbone switch). Full gigabit network that works perfectly--except with Roamio/Mini.


Update after messing with my home network all day:

I moved switches around and bypassed switches. My home is wired with dual drop Cat6 gigabit Ethernet in all rooms, all terminating at a 24 port Managed Dlink switch. At some locations, I have inserted Netgear GS105/108 "Green" switches in order to connect additional items (AV receiver, media player, TV, HTPC, etc).

I have been able to determine (at least for me) that connecting a Netgear GS105/108 switch next to a Tivo Mini works fine. Connecting a Netgear GS105/108 switch next to the Roamio causes my problems. Prior to bypassing the "Green" Netgear switch connected to the Roamio, I was having constant connection issues. If I bypass the "Green" Netgear switch next to the Roamio (direct connection to Dlink 24 Port switch), the Minis have been able to stream live TV for the last hour without issue (prior to removing the switch, it would lose the connection in 3-10 minutes). This occurred with two different Mini devices in two different rooms (both connected via Ethernet to a gigabit home network).

Maybe this helps someone troubleshoot their issues in the future. Good luck.


----------



## kherr

How can a live devise such as a Tivo/Mini be seen as a dead device by a "green switch". My Mini shows net activity even though it's been sitting there for 3 days not being used. Seems the switch should become "smart" before it goes "green". The only time any of my devices show non-activity is when they're turned off.


----------



## jmpage2

802.3az

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-Efficient_Ethernet

And similar technologies


----------



## RustySTL

Do most of these green switches have settings that you can access to turn off the "green" technology?


----------



## jmpage2

RustySTL said:


> Do most of these green switches have settings that you can access to turn off the "green" technology?


Consumer switches do not typically have management capabilities to do things like that. Certainly the reasonably priced products do not.


----------



## Beryl

I've thought through this "TiVO can't handle green switches" issue and decided that buying a MoCA adapter that will serve no other purpose outside of providing faster than wireless Internet to the Roamio. I have Ethernet drops in my house with switches working for everything but the Roamio so replacing the green switch with the NETGEAR 8-Port Gigabit Ethernet Switch (GS608NA) model makes more sense in my situation.

It doesn't say it is "not green" but it doesn't have this listed like the Netgear GS108NA model does.



> NETGEAR Green features provide energy savings


TiVo needs to continue to look into this because I'm thinking many people use green switches.


----------



## tonestert

PHeadland said:


> This one doesn't appear to be green (I checked the manufacturer's web site and the manual): www.amazon.com/Tenda-G1008D-Desktop-Unmanaged-Ethernet/dp/B006KAP54A/


I ended up buying this but it ended up being a green switch but it works without any issues. Nice and cheap so thanks for the link. I got the last one in stock at $22.52 and now they've gone up to $35.47.
Seems like a good switch and I like that it has different color lights between 10/100 and 1000 Mbps depending on what your speed is.


----------



## CrispyCritter

I think people have focused too narrowly on the "green" aspect of modern routers/switches. I'd be very surprised if it's the power saving features that are causing the problems.

My personal guess is that it has more to do with multicasting/mDNS/avahi/Bonjour features, which have also been changing in the past few years. Perhaps more innocuous multicast error messages are now making it all the way to the Roamio due to the way that modern switches now handle multicast, and the Roamio is improperly dropping the entire network connection instead of just noting the multicast problem.


----------



## civerson4

CrispyCritter said:


> I think people have focused too narrowly on the "green" aspect of modern routers/switches. I'd be very surprised if it's the power saving features that are causing the problems.
> 
> My personal guess is that it has more to do with multicasting/mDNS/avahi/Bonjour features, which have also been changing in the past few years. Perhaps more innocuous multicast error messages are now making it all the way to the Roamio due to the way that modern switches now handle multicast, and the Roamio is improperly dropping the entire network connection instead of just noting the multicast problem.


This could certainly be true--but the issue does seem to impact newer switches more than older ones. I am hardly a networking expert, but something is occurring with the Roamio ethernet connection when connected to a newer switch that is causing a problem. Only TIVO tech support or engineering knows (or hopefully will know soon) the real cause.


----------



## Rob the elder

I hooked up my Romeo basic to my "green" 24 port GB switch. It connected and worked fine during initial testing.

I then hooked up a Mini at the end of 100 feet of Cat5 connected to the same switch. It worked fine on start up but it was losing connectivity on a random basis every 30 to 90 minutes.

I next hooked up a Steam to the same 24 port switch. It went through startup fine, ethernet activity lights indicating com was happening, the status light turned to steady white, but neither of my two iPads would find the switch.

Executed all the recommended fixes and saw no improvement.

At the recommendation of Tivo tech support, I connected all three Tivo devices to a single Airport extreme, then uplined that AE directly to my Comcast cable modem. Rebooted several times, forced connection several times, and the Romeo to Mini performance appears to be acceptable. The Stream remains invisible to both iPads.

When I went out to check the news this morning, the Mini could not find the Romeo . . .

One would think that the Tivo devices coming from the same design team would have robust enough design implementation to assure that when connected to a single router they would all find each other, but apparently that is not the case.

Since I am still inside the 30 day window I am looking for advice on if this is a solvable bump in the road or if I should just box them all up and ship them back to Tivo and wait another 5 years to see if they can come up with a design that actually works.

Thoughts?


----------



## jmpage2

Rob the elder said:


> I hooked up my Romeo basic to my "green" 24 port GB switch. It connected and worked fine during initial testing.
> 
> I then hooked up a Mini at the end of 100 feet of Cat5 connected to the same switch. It worked fine on start up but it was losing connectivity on a random basis every 30 to 90 minutes.
> 
> I next hooked up a Steam to the same 24 port switch. It went through startup fine, ethernet activity lights indicating com was happening, the status light turned to steady white, but neither of my two iPads would find the switch.
> 
> Executed all the recommended fixes and saw no improvement.
> 
> At the recommendation of Tivo tech support, I connected all three Tivo devices to a single Airport extreme, then uplined that AE directly to my Comcast cable modem. Rebooted several times, forced connection several times, and the Romeo to Mini performance appears to be acceptable. The Stream remains invisible to both iPads.
> 
> When I went out to check the news this morning, the Mini could not find the Romeo . . .
> 
> One would think that the Tivo devices coming from the same design team would have robust enough design implementation to assure that when connected to a single router they would all find each other, but apparently that is not the case.
> 
> Since I am still inside the 30 day window I am looking for advice on if this is a solvable bump in the road or if I should just box them all up and ship them back to Tivo and wait another 5 years to see if they can come up with a design that actually works.
> 
> Thoughts?


Well, TiVo's design VP has commented in this thread (or a similar one) that they are looking into these issues.... so, I guess it's your call on if you want to see if they can fix it in software or if you should sit this round out.


----------



## Beryl

Rob the elder said:


> Since I am still inside the 30 day window I am looking for advice on if this is a solvable bump in the road or if I should just box them all up and ship them back to Tivo and wait another 5 years to see if they can come up with a design that actually works.
> 
> Thoughts?


I think it is solvable but you'll need to decide if it is worth the time and expense to replace more equipment.

Thanks for posting though. The more people post these issues, the faster TiVo will work to resolve them, IMO. They have a good product in the Roamio but they should not rest on their laurels.


----------



## uw69

I know you shoudn't have to change the type of switch you use, but I just bought a cheap non-green switch from monoprice and problem solved.


----------



## flar

I have D-Link DGS-2208 (green gigabit) switches in a few places to share network drops. I have noticed a few problems here and there with my Roamio Pro, but it seems able to at least make its daily connection without trouble.

The main problem I had was while watching Netflix. I had a short video dropout, I hit the back key to rewind and play through it, but the TiVo rebooted (twice). It came back up and I was able to rewatch the program. This occurred after having watched an hour or two of other Netflix programs and having transferred several hours of programming from my old Premiere (at the same time as I started watching Netflix). Once or twice other than that I did have a network problem as I was setting it up and doing manual "connect to the TiVo service" connections to get the accounts to synch, but since then the daily connections have seemed to be fine. I'll keep an eye on it.

My DGS-2208's are at least a couple of years old now, not sure if that matters but someone else was hypothesizing above about whether the problems were gigabit-vs-fast or newer models vs older so I thought I would mention it.

If this continues at this rate, I'll be happy to keep the box and wait out a software fix, as it is still very usable. But, if this is going to be a permanent issue, or if TiVo drags their heels, then I would have second thoughts about the box. I'm hoping there is an update soon to improve stability for us...


----------



## aaronwt

I had the same dlink models as jmpage but he didnt have issues and I did. I do know there are different hardware revisions. All mone were the same and everyone I tried had issues. Jmpage wasn't able to check his hardware revision. I went to one of my old Dlink DGS models that was not labeled green although my other old Dlinks had green on them.


----------



## mburnno

MScottC said:


> I happen to work in a fairly high end technical video environment, and any time any new gear is added, we expect that something will go unexpectedly wrong. If manufacturers like TiVo waited till they caught every single possible problem, they'd never be able to release anything. The true story with this issue will be told when TiVo does one of two things, either issues a software update that deals with the issue, or issues a statement that claims the hardware they chose isn't compatible with green switches and post that users need to avoid the green switches. I'd hope for former, but if the latter is the answer, then at least they're being honest with their consumers, and you really can't ask for more than that. If they whitewash the issue, then your rant becomes valid. Till then, show TiVo a bit of slack.


Do you think I am wrong now *MScottC*? No I will not show Tivo a bit of slack since I paid over $800 for both boxes. This is not their first ever box they produced. They know what users except so get it right or provide tech support instead of dodging the question.



Marget Schmidt said:


> TODAY'S update has fixes that include:
> - fixed an issue where customers might see error V301 when trying to launch Xfinity On Demand
> - fixed an issue where all six tuners would display video, but one was missing audio
> 
> The NEXT update (maybe in two weeks?) should include:
> - *a fix for the "green switch" problem*
> - support for older versions of CableCARDS from FiOS


----------



## wmhjr

CrispyCritter said:


> I think people have focused too narrowly on the "green" aspect of modern routers/switches. I'd be very surprised if it's the power saving features that are causing the problems.
> 
> My personal guess is that it has more to do with multicasting/mDNS/avahi/Bonjour features, which have also been changing in the past few years. Perhaps more innocuous multicast error messages are now making it all the way to the Roamio due to the way that modern switches now handle multicast, and the Roamio is improperly dropping the entire network connection instead of just noting the multicast problem.


I would agree that it's probably more to do with multicasting, etc. However, I do NOT agree that it's just more errors making it to the Roamio. I'm having tons of "network related issues" with my Premiers and Minis. V301, etc. And I have never, ever, ever, ever, had any issues with with any other network related device in my home. My network is EXTREMELY strong.


----------



## CrispyCritter

wmhjr said:


> I would agree that it's probably more to do with multicasting, etc. However, I do NOT agree that it's just more errors making it to the Roamio. I'm having tons of "network related issues" with my Premiers and Minis. V301, etc. And I have never, ever, ever, ever, had any issues with with any other network related device in my home. My network is EXTREMELY strong.


But I don't know anybody else on these forums who have had as many network issues as you have had. There may be a couple of folks with similar issues, but the vast majority of folks with TiVos do not have the problems you have. Therefore there is something in your network that is causing your TiVos problems. It could very well be TiVo's fault, but it is still being set off by something in your network (or you've been very unlucky in getting TiVos with bad network devices).

You've never had issues with other devices? How strange. I've been running a home network for over 25 years, and I doubt I've had a single year in which I didn't have a networking issue with some new device. My network is more complicated than most (5 routers, probably double digit different OS versions), but still, no problems? I would even say that the majority of new motherboards I've bought need several iterations of firmware before the networking settles down completely.


----------



## dslunceford

Thought I would try this thread before calling TiVo support.

I had 2 TiVo HDs and an S2 in the home using FiOS. Each device is networked via MoCa. At the two locations where the THDs are/were, it went wall coax --> Nim 100 (moca adapter) --> to ethernet switch (DLink DES 1105 in one location, Dynex DX-ESW5 in the 2nd) --> Tivo ethernet in and to coax in on the TiVo. The S2 is connected directly to a Nim 100, no switch. With this setup, all boxes saw one another and connected to my PC via the FiOS Actiontec router. 

I just set up a Roamio Plus, which replaced a TiVoHD (the one using the DLink DES 1105). So now I have the Roamio, 1 TiVo HD and a S2 in my network. Set up using Ethernet and same chain as described above. While the Roamio can see video files on the PC, and displays the name of both TiVo boxes, I get an error (network problem) message when I try to view any of the shows on the THD or S2 boxes. Both of the older TiVos still see each other, and can see the Roamio as well (but can't see recordings on The Roamio)

I don't believe any of the switches I am using are green switches. Any thoughts I what I might be doing wrong?

Disconnecting Ethernet from the setup fails to connect to internet when turning on MOCA. Taking coax directly from wall to Roamio without Ethernet (bypassing the adapter) connects to internet via MOCA, but PC and other TiVos don't show up on the Roamio.


----------



## jmpage2

dslunceford said:


> Thought I would try this thread before calling TiVo support.
> 
> I had 2 TiVo HDs and an S2 in the home using FiOS. Each device is networked via MoCa. At the two locations where the THDs are/were, it went wall coax --> Nim 100 (moca adapter) --> to ethernet switch (DLink DES 1105 in one location, Dynex DX-ESW5 in the 2nd) --> Tivo ethernet in and to coax in on the TiVo. The S2 is connected directly to a Nim 100, no switch. With this setup, all boxes saw one another and connected to my PC via the FiOS Actiontec router.
> 
> I just set up a Roamio Plus, which replaced a TiVoHD (the one using the DLink DES 1105). So now I have the Roamio, 1 TiVo HD and a S2 in my network. Set up using Ethernet and same chain as described above. While the Roamio can see video files on the PC, and displays the name of both TiVo boxes, I get an error (network problem) message when I try to view any of the shows on the THD or S2 boxes. Both of the older TiVos still see each other, and can see the Roamio as well (but can't see recordings on The Roamio)
> 
> I don't believe any of the switches I am using are green switches. Any thoughts I what I might be doing wrong?
> 
> Disconnecting Ethernet from the setup fails to connect to internet when turning on MOCA. Taking coax directly from wall to Roamio without Ethernet (bypassing the adapter) connects to internet via MOCA, but PC and other TiVos don't show up on the Roamio.


If the boxes see each other then the most likely explanation is that the Roamio is not yet seen on your account by the other devices. Does not sound like a network problem to me.


----------



## jbaum

I originally plugged my Roamio into my Netgear GS724T, the same switch I had plugged my premier into and my series 3, and my stream without an issue. I found with the roamio that I had trouble with my Control 4 IP driver controlling the tivo and when I tried to stream from the Roamio the streaming would freeze and suddenly say finished.

I followed the advice here and plugged my Roamio directly into my Airport router that is plugged into the cable modem.

So far the issues have gone away. I'm hoping a service update comes soon and I'm out of ports on the on the Apple airport, so I can go back to the switch.


----------



## aeternal

Just wanted to chime in and also say that I've been having issues with the Roamio and my Netgear "Green" switch. I had it hooked upstairs through a green switch and checking the network diagnostics it would bounce back and forth to be connected and "failed" (I would also get the internet connection lost message). At first I thought this was due to my set up as I am running off of a powerline adapter. However, I moved my Roamio box downstairs and connected it to another green switch which is directly connected to my router and the same problem occurred. When I connected it directly to my router.. the problem goes away. 

I made the same observations as everyone else. The port light will go out for a short period on the green switch which obviously severs the connection. Sure, I was able to switch devices around so that the Roamio is directly connected to the router but I agree that this is an issue that should be fixed asap.


----------



## Hyrax

jmpage2 said:


> If the boxes see each other then the most likely explanation is that the Roamio is not yet seen on your account by the other devices. Does not sound like a network problem to me.


I have the same problem as dslunceford. Thanks to you I have an answer. I went to my Tivo account where it says " We're still processing your activation. Try again in 24 hours." about my new Roamio.

Also someone mentioned that we should be expecting 150+ Mbs when transferring to a PC from a Roamio. I'm getting 90 Mbs on my Roamio Plus on a Giga connection. The download speed is twice what I was getting from my Premiere, but I'd love to get an ever faster connection. Can someone point me in a direction where I might read up on how to speed up the transfers with Tivo?


----------



## TiVoMargret

We plan to release an update for Roamio on Wednesday (10/9) that should address these issues with green switches.

--Margret


----------



## Beryl

TiVoMargret said:


> We plan to release an update for Roamio on Wednesday (10/9) that should address these issues with green switches. --Margret


Yay! :up:


----------



## MrMikeinflorida

i'm a new roamio plus user who purchased last Saturday. I also had wifi issues and inconsistent c133 errors associated with not a stable connection. I ended up switching to Ethernet cable to avoid using wifi. I do not have a green router or have I had connection problems with my dlink 655 router at any time in the past.

however, during my investigation of the problem using wifi I did find a curious fact which TiVo margaret may find interesting:

in my router log and on a status page of connected wireless users I had not 1, but 3 mac addresses associated with my TiVo connected to my router.

one of course was the designed mac address as noted on the TiVo screen, but in addition there were 2 other mac addresses all different. 

the 3 mac addresses all had the first 7 digits the same, but the remainder were different. also, one of the ip addresses associated with one of the connections was assigned 0.0.0.0 which I've never seen before in all my years.

in conclusion, TiVo is using 3 distinct mac addresses attempting to connect to my wifi. this could be cause of problems no doubt.

if TiVo Margaret is interested I have a printed copy of the wireless status page.


----------



## jmpage2

More than likely the 3 MAC addresses are the Wi-Fi, the physical ethernet port and the MoCA bridge. Since the Roamio can bridge connections all of these MAC addresses could possibly show up when you look at the connectivity.


----------



## moyekj

There should be a MAC and separate IP for the internal Stream as well.


----------



## jmpage2

moyekj said:


> There should be a MAC and separate IP for the internal Stream as well.


Yep, I forgot that one.

Bottom line is I'm pretty sure that seeing multiple MAC addresses from the TiVo is "normal" and not a cause for alarm.


----------



## MrMikeinflorida

I would think that these additional mac addresses should not be accessing the wifi network unless requested thru the TiVo settings.

in addition, when I attempted to reactivate my mac filtering thru the router I could not connect using TiVo's wifi by limiting the ip to specifically TiVo's wifi mac address. it is as if these other connections are necessary when not desired or needed.

i'm just wondering if this is something causing a problem with people's wifi like I experienced.


----------



## moyekj

Biggest issue with Roamio WiFi I see is there is no "off" button. Once you've enabled it, even when you plug in ethernet cable or use MoCA the WiFi link remains alive. After testing it out of curiosity (I am wired now) I had to choose a neighbor's WiFi network and enter a bogus password to effectively turn it off - prior to that my router kept showing my Roamio as a wireless client. It would seem like this could create network collisions and may explain some of the networking problems some are having with Roamios.


----------



## dslunceford

jmpage2 said:


> If the boxes see each other then the most likely explanation is that the Roamio is not yet seen on your account by the other devices. Does not sound like a network problem to me.


Circling back. I believe that must have been the issue. Thought it had already had all the service data needed, as I had forced a number of connections and the device name came down/updated, as did the lifetime service status.


----------



## Devx

Hyrax said:


> ...Also someone mentioned that we should be expecting 150+ Mbs when transferring to a PC from a Roamio. I'm getting 90 Mbs on my Roamio Plus on a Giga connection. The download speed is twice what I was getting from my Premiere, but I'd love to get an ever faster connection. Can someone point me in a direction where I might read up on how to speed up the transfers with Tivo?


I can confirm the transfer speeds. My server can download from the Roamio Pro at 150+ Mbps. The transfer rate typically varies between 140-200Mbps.

On improving the transfer rate, are you using Tivo Desktop? The only thing I can think of is to make sure the File Transfer speed box is checked in File, preferences. It may be checked by default but I've had it installed so long I don't remember. I didn't really do anything special to get the high transfer rate. The Roamio Pro has all tuners on HD channels, server is mostly idle, using Tivo Desktop 2.8.3, both on gigabit connections of course.


----------



## aaronwt

Hyrax said:


> I have the same problem as dslunceford. Thanks to you I have an answer. I went to my Tivo account where it says " We're still processing your activation. Try again in 24 hours." about my new Roamio.
> 
> Also someone mentioned that we should be expecting 150+ Mbs when transferring to a PC from a Roamio. I'm getting 90 Mbs on my Roamio Plus on a Giga connection. The download speed is twice what I was getting from my Premiere, but I'd love to get an ever faster connection. Can someone point me in a direction where I might read up on how to speed up the transfers with Tivo?


Even the download speeds from the Premiere should be over 70Mb/s to TiVo Desktop.

I would certainly make sure that box is checked that Devx mentioned. The speeds you quote are nowhere near what i get from my Roamio Pro and Premiere.


----------



## kbmb

I see software update 20.3.6.3 was released tonight. Can anyone confirm this fixes the green switch issue?

Also, anyone here have issues with a Netgear GS605? I'm looking to upgrade my 10/100 switch to a gigabit switch.

-Kevin


----------



## pautler

moyekj said:


> Biggest issue with Roamio WiFi I see is there is no "off" button. Once you've enabled it, even when you plug in ethernet cable or use MoCA the WiFi link remains alive. After testing it out of curiosity (I am wired now) I had to choose a neighbor's WiFi network and enter a bogus password to effectively turn it off - prior to that my router kept showing my Roamio as a wireless client. It would seem like this could create network collisions and may explain some of the networking problems some are having with Roamios.


It wouldn't necessarily cause any problems, but any/all devices that are using RF (including WiFi clients, cordless phones, microwaves, etc) will certainly increase the amount of collisions and interference in the airwaves, and will decrease the performance of other WiFi devices. There really should be a way to turn off the WiFi on the Roamio if you're not using it (because you are using a wired connection instead).

Can anyone confirm that there was indeed a software update yesterday, and that it resolves the 'green switch' issue?

My Roamio & Mini are scheduled for delivery on Monday, and I need to add another switch to my home network. I was planning on ordering the D-Link DGS-1008G from Amazon, but I want to be sure that it will work ok. If not, I'll order the Netgear GS608NA ($15 more).

Thanks!

-Joe


----------



## aaronwt

pautler said:


> It wouldn't necessarily cause any problems, but any/all devices that are using RF (including WiFi clients, cordless phones, microwaves, etc) will certainly increase the amount of collisions and interference in the airwaves, and will decrease the performance of other WiFi devices. There really should be a way to turn off the WiFi on the Roamio if you're not using it (because you are using a wired connection instead).
> 
> Can anyone confirm that there was indeed a software update yesterday, and that it resolves the 'green switch' issue?
> 
> My Roamio & Mini are scheduled for delivery on Monday, and I need to add another switch to my home network. I was planning on ordering the D-Link DGS-1008G from Amazon, but I want to be sure that it will work ok. If not, I'll order the Netgear GS608NA ($15 more).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Joe


Margaret said it did in the thread about the update. But I have not gone back to my green Dlink switch to test it yet.



TiVoMargret said:


> Yes, three main fixes in the 10/9 update:
> - a fix for the problem connecting to "green switches"
> - support for older versions of Motorola CableCARDS from Verizon
> - a fix for failed recordings and fast-forward/rewind problems on some channels (like FOX in Seattle)
> 
> I expect another update within two weeks that will include fixes for:
> - boxes that reboot when connected to some models of TV and the TV is OFF
> - TiVo Minis that lose HDMI sync with some models of TV, and have to be rebooted
> - missed recordings and video glitches due to back-to-back recordings
> - improvements in RF remote reception in areas with WiFi interference


----------



## Tweety_pbe98

Setup:
I have a Tivo Roamio Plus connected via ethernet and a Mini connected via Moca. I have Fios with coax from the box to an Actiontec router. Everything worked fine for about a month.

Problem:
Twice in the past two weeks the Actiontec router has completely stopped working. All the indicator lights on both the router and the Fios box are showing no problems, but I have no internet access and cannot even access the router to diagnose the connection issue. 

Current Workaround:
After much trial and error, I realized that disconnecting the COAX from the Roamio solved all my problems. I tried swapping out every piece of coax and the splitter, but nothing worked if the Roamio remained connected. The first time, I thought that I might have setup Moca broadcasting on the Roamio and that it was interfering somehow with the Actiontec. I disabled Moca on the Roamio and rebooted everything and everything worked for a little over a week. Then the same problem occurred; the Actiontec was completely out of commission. I unplugged the coax from the Roamio and everything worked fine. I plugged the coax back in and rebooted and all was well.

Tivo customer service is blaming the Router, but I'm not clear how this is the router's fault since disconnecting the coax from the Tivo immediately solves all issues. 

Has anyone seen a similar issue? Could it be some Moca leak from the Roamio?


----------



## jmpage2

Do you have a PoE filter installed? This sounds like a MoCA type of issue. To prove it you could simply turn off MoCA on the Roamio for a few days and see if you still have this issue.


----------



## Tweety_pbe98

jmpage2 said:


> Do you have a PoE filter installed? This sounds like a MoCA type of issue. To prove it you could simply turn off MoCA on the Roamio for a few days and see if you still have this issue.


I have MoCA turned off on the Roamio. I'm using the Fios MoCA network for the Mini. I don't have a POE filter. I didn't think I needed one with Fios.


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## BigJimOutlaw

Tweety_pbe98 said:


> Setup:
> I have a Tivo Roamio Plus connected via ethernet and a Mini connected via Moca. I have Fios with coax from the box to an Actiontec router. Everything worked fine for about a month.
> 
> Problem:
> Twice in the past two weeks the Actiontec router has completely stopped working. All the indicator lights on both the router and the Fios box are showing no problems, but I have no internet access and cannot even access the router to diagnose the connection issue.
> 
> Tivo customer service is blaming the Router, but I'm not clear how this is the router's fault since disconnecting the coax from the Tivo immediately solves all issues.
> 
> Has anyone seen a similar issue? Could it be some Moca leak from the Roamio?


No POE filter needed with Fios.

Have you tried using the Roamio without the ethernet, and using it as a moca client like the Mini?

This might have popped up before... Not sure exactly what's going on but it seems like a bug where Tivo can sometimes jam the Actiontec's moca network even when not explicitly selected to create its own moca network.


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## PHeadland

The 10/9 update has cured the "green switch" problem on my Roamio Pro.


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## IMD

I just added a Roamio Plus to my collection. I was just going to run over to BestBuy to pick up a Gigabit switch before I stumbled across this thread. Can you recommend a good Gigabit Switch (5 or 8-port) that is compatible with the Roamio, or did the update make all switches compatible now?
Thanks!


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## jmpage2

The "green switch" issue is resolved, as you should see from this and other threads. Get whatever gigabit switch you like. Personally I like the d-link green switches as they have extremely low power consumption and good performance.... and no problems with the TiVo that I am aware of.


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## DigitalDawn

As a Control4 dealer we are always instructed to use higher-end networking gear. So I've learned to never buy any of the cheaper residential stuff if possible.

I recently purchased the Cisco SR2016T 16-Port Gigabit Switch, and it's been great. Using it with a Roamio Pro, XL4, 5 Minis, and several home automation products.


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## aaronwt

The cheaper residential gigabit switches work perfectly fine. They are just unmanaged switches.


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## DebiLee

Ok so is there a list of routers and switches that are problematic with the Romeo? What about the Linksys SE2800 8 port gigabit switch one any of their SMART routers?


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## nooneuknow

DebiLee said:


> Ok so is there a list of routers and switches that are problematic with the Romeo? What about the Linksys SE2800 8 port gigabit switch one any of their SMART routers?


Could you please say how tech-smart you are, and if you are having problems, or just looking for advice before buying? Could you please list any routers and/or switches you may already have, and/or are using? Also, could you please describe your network config, and what you intend to change about it, with some idea of what combination of devices you intend to have on it, by what means?

I get accused of being overly-technical, and some people here get mad when my advice isn't "buy the cheapest one that meets your needs".

I'll say that I love the Netgear GS605AV switches, which often go on sale on Newegg, for as low as $19.99 ($14.99 after rebate), like right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122363 It doesn't get much cheaper than that, for a quality unmanaged switch, that has functions often reserved for managed, smart, or more expensive switches.

It's not a smart/managed switch. It's a Priority Tag/QoS honoring switch that will either assign priority (itself) by what color-coded port you use, or will honor the router QoS rules that can be set on many modern consumer-grade routers. It meant for AV use, and has worked great for me, both for TiVo, and for cured my VoIP issues, which would have otherwise required each VoIP box to go straight into the router switch (like TiVo wants the Roamios connected, to avoid dealing with tech support for switches beyond the built-in router switch).


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## DebiLee

nooneuknow said:


> Could you please say how tech-smart you are, and if you are having problems, or just looking for advice before buying? Could you please list any routers and/or switches you may already have, and/or are using? Also, could you please describe your network config, and what you intend to change about it, with some idea of what combination of devices you intend to have on it, by what means?
> 
> I get accused of being overly-technical, and some people here get mad when my advice isn't "buy the cheapest one that meets your needs".
> 
> I'll say that I love the Netgear GS605AV switches, which often go on sale on Newegg, for as low as $19.99 ($14.99 after rebate), like right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122363 It doesn't get much cheaper than that, for a quality unmanaged switch, that has functions often reserved for managed, smart, or more expensive switches.
> 
> It's not a smart/managed switch. It's a Priority Tag/QoS honoring switch that will either assign priority (itself) by what color-coded port you use, or will honor the router QoS rules that can be set on many modern consumer-grade routers. It meant for AV use, and has worked great for me, both for TiVo, and for cured my VoIP issues, which would have otherwise required each VoIP box to go straight into the router switch (like TiVo wants the Roamios connected, to avoid dealing with tech support for switches beyond the built-in router switch).


Extremely tech savvy, looking to learn all I can for my clients. Gigabit Cat 6 Ethernet throughout. Routers are Linksys WRT1900AC and switches are Linksys SE2800 and Linksys SE3008. What would be added to the network are Linksys LAPAC1750 wireless access points, four TiVo Roamio Pro units, three TiVo Premiere 4 units, and three TiVo Stream units. Also Western Digital My Book AV extenders on each DVR. I realize that's a lot but there are very large numbers of users per household.


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## nooneuknow

DebiLee said:


> Extremely tech savvy, looking to learn all I can for my clients. Gigabit Cat 6 Ethernet throughout. Routers are Linksys WRT1900AC and switches are Linksys SE2800 and Linksys SE3008. What would be added to the network are Linksys LAPAC1750 wireless access points, four TiVo Roamio Pro units, three TiVo Premiere 4 units, and three TiVo Stream units. Also Western Digital My Book AV extenders on each DVR. I realize that's a lot but there are very large numbers of users per household.


Wow! I can honestly say I have never owned, used, or setup any of those particular devices (other than the TiVos). I'll take a guess, that you are a professional installer, and just wish to avoid using switches outside a list of "acceptable" or "supported" ones TiVo is hiding somewhere.

Here's the bad news: TiVo will only provide support for ethernet with switches, if the ethernet switches are built-into the router. I don't even think they provide support for multiple router scenarios. They only provide support for ethernet home runs to a single router, and a built-in switch. There is no secret "approved" or "supported" list of switches (or it's one of TiVo's best-kept secrets).

The argument that some have is the definition of "support", when TiVo says "Sorry, we don't support switches". I, like others see this as "Sorry, we don't (provide technical) support (for) switches". They do, however, provide technical support for MoCA (for whatever their reasoning is).

The switches I mentioned in my prior post have worked wonders for me. Many here claim that it's not possible for the results to have been from the switches, or that I'm networking incorrectly, and have applied a band-aid, lucking-out it worked. Many say "buy the cheapest one that meets your needs, case-closed". Some even take TiVo's side, and say if you need help with a switch, call the company that made the switch, not TiVo.

I would advise using switches that match the brands of routers you use. I use netgear, so besides the GS605AV ones I use at endpoints, I use the unmanaged GS108 switches where honoring and passing packet tags is necessary, but using GS605AV would be restrictive, and the unmanaged, but highly configurable, GS108E, where I might want to not use the just-short-of-managed switch functions built-into the router.

For netgear, the GS108E is what I'd recommend for the tech-savvy, not wanting a fully managed, or smart switch, also for those not fond of "by color" things.

As for the product brands you use, I'm better-off letting those who have experience with your specific routers take over.

Some swear they can use any switch, any time, any place, for the lowest price, and never have an issue. It did seem it was that simple, before the Roamio came out...


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## DebiLee

I do dabble here and there with installations for fun, yes. Not looking for any lists, was just curious if the switches I listed would have any problems with the green fiasco mentioned in earlier posts. I know TiVo doesn't like to support switches in their troubleshooting steps but I'm not sure why they'd need to be told that one is in place since they can't see. One could easily connect the upstream Ethernet cable to a TiVo or network device that has its own Ethernet cable via RJ45 coupler and bypass the switch or fib and say one is not in place at all or just relocate devices or router to each other? TiVo I think also supports MoCA since they use it in their own products as well as sell MoCA bridges.


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## JWhites

Those Linksys SE2800 switches I use all the time and they're constantly hammered with data day and night. I've installed them in data centers and enterprise networks in daisy chains (not the best solution but it's what the boss wanted and works great) and I haven't had to replace a single switch going on I think seven years now since initial installation. I use these switches at home as well because of their reliability and cool factor.


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## nooneuknow

DebiLee said:


> I do dabble here and there with installations for fun, yes. Not looking for any lists, was just curious if the switches I listed would have any problems with the green fiasco mentioned in earlier posts. I know TiVo doesn't like to support switches in their troubleshooting steps but I'm not sure why they'd need to be told that one is in place since they can't see. One could easily connect the upstream Ethernet cable to a TiVo or network device that has its own Ethernet cable via RJ45 coupler and bypass the switch or fib and say one is not in place at all or just relocate devices or router to each other? TiVo I think also supports MoCA since they use it in their own products as well as sell MoCA bridges.


The "green" or "energy efficient ethernet" switch problem was addressed quite a while ago. I was worried that the shipping software would still have it (a legit concern, a bit short of a year ago), but it didn't stop my installs, or cause a failure to update to the software with the "fix". I had changed to all green switches, before the Roamio came out. A workaround was to simply place a non-green switch between the TiVo and green switch, until updated with the fix, then remove it.

I'm not even going to speculate on the rest of it. It sounds like you'll be fine.


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## tchyde

I just purchased a new Roamio plus and had just run CAT6 cable throughout my whole house. Everything was fine, until my Roamio arrived and I could not get any of my other devices to recognize ? I have 3 TIVOs (2 premieres & 1 Roamio) plus 2 minis and 1 TIVO stream. They all recognizes the new Roamio, but I cannot connect to it without seeing a vague networking error ? or it saying my new Roamio is not in my Account (which it is) 

After reading this thread, I think it very well could be a set of green TrendNet 8 port switches I got awhile ago. Everything else on my home network seems fine with these switches (except TIVO) .. I had a simular issue before with a new MINI, and got around it by plugging into the same switch, until it did recognize, then I moved to a new switch and it worked!

After reading this thread, I am going to test the 4 different brand switches I have laying around, and/or replace with either D-LINK or TP-LINK (only because after reading several threads on this topic it seems like these are the brands users have had most success with)

The brand of switch definitely seems to make a difference, but there doesn't seem to be a definitive brand or model that always works. I know from my experience .. only certain brands of switches "play nice" with TIVO .. and all mine are fighting again


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## mjanssentx

Is it as simple as the base Roamio with all the same requirements and instructions?

(referring to the Roamio OTA that you get from Best Buy for $49 versus the base Roamio)

Thanks


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## nooneuknow

tchyde said:


> I just purchased a new Roamio plus and had just run CAT6 cable throughout my whole house. Everything was fine, until my Roamio arrived and I could not get any of my other devices to recognize ? I have 3 TIVOs (2 premieres & 1 Roamio) plus 2 minis and 1 TIVO stream. They all recognizes the new Roamio, but I cannot connect to it without seeing a vague networking error ? or it saying my new Roamio is not in my Account (which it is)
> 
> After reading this thread, I think it very well could be a set of green TrendNet 8 port switches I got awhile ago. Everything else on my home network seems fine with these switches (except TIVO) .. I had a simular issue before with a new MINI, and got around it by plugging into the same switch, until it did recognize, then I moved to a new switch and it worked!
> 
> After reading this thread, I am going to test the 4 different brand switches I have laying around, and/or replace with either D-LINK or TP-LINK (only because after reading several threads on this topic it seems like these are the brands users have had most success with)
> 
> The brand of switch definitely seems to make a difference, but there doesn't seem to be a definitive brand or model that always works. I know from my experience .. only certain brands of switches "play nice" with TIVO .. and all mine are fighting again


The only brand of switch that has been a problem for me was trendnet, as well. I switched everything out to Netgear, with 802.1p QoS support. Best networking experience, and speed, ever.

I had two trendnet switches fail, in less than a year. I've never had any other brand switch fail. They all held on until they were replaced with faster, or larger ones.


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## tchyde

I have not got replacement switches (yet)
but I did decide to change the order in which my switches were.
This seemed to do the trick 

Originally I had
tivo1 >> trendNet >> ZyXel >> roamio

and after I changed to 
tivo1 >> ZyXel >> trendNet >> roamio

everything worked 

However, I do think these TrendNet green switches are a problem and I will be replacing them soon

BTW .. I do realize daisy-chaining switches IS NOT ideal for TIVO's .. but when it cannot be avoided, the TIVOs can still operate fine (if setup correctly)

Thx for the help
Good Luck to all


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## aaronwt

tchyde said:


> I have not got replacement switches (yet)
> but I did decide to change the order in which my switches were.
> This seemed to do the trick
> 
> Originally I had
> tivo1 >> trendNet >> ZyXel >> roamio
> 
> and after I changed to
> tivo1 >> ZyXel >> trendNet >> roamio
> 
> everything worked
> 
> However, I do think these TrendNet green switches are a problem and I will be replacing them soon
> 
> BTW .. I do realize daisy-chaining switches IS NOT ideal for TIVO's .. but when it cannot be avoided, the TIVOs can still operate fine (if setup correctly)
> 
> Thx for the help
> Good Luck to all


Chaining the switches do not cause a problem with me and should not cause an issue for any device. I can go through half a dozen switches and the performance will be identical to being connected directly to my router. I use Dlink GigE switches and Asus routers and Asus APs.

My Roamio Pro currently goes through four switches to reach my PC running KMTTG. I regularly get over 170Mb/s transfer rates between the PC and the Roamio pro. The speeds, performance, and reliability will be the same whether I go through one switch, four switches or six switches.


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## tchyde

Today I swapped out all my TrendNet green switches with tp-link SG108 switches (that I got for $25 each) and my network has performed great (stable as a rock)

Also, any issues I used to have streaming video on my iPhone have now gone away.

I honestly believe the TrendNet switches are crap and not reliable with TIVO devices.

Based on my own experience .. tp-link and zyxel switches seem to be safe.
Based on others comments .. Netgear and d-link switches seem to also be safe as well.

The real culprit here seems to be TrendNet green switches ..
If you are using them and having issues with TIVO networking, you should try switching them out.

For me, switching out has made a huge improvement.
Thanks to all on this thread for your help.


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## tchyde

whatever brand switch you choose to go with ..

seems like with 802.1p w/QoS support is the way to go !

GLTA


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## nooneuknow

tchyde said:


> whatever brand switch you choose to go with ..
> 
> seems like with 802.1p w/QoS support is the way to go !
> 
> GLTA


I 100% agree. Some, however, seem to think that only managed switches can have that feature, and/or the price will be excessive, for things the average home network (allegedy, in their opinions) has no use/need for.

I have paid as little as $9.99 for a 5-port, or $19.99 for an 8-port one, by simply watching for NewEgg sales on them.

I also have an unmanaged switch which can do almost everything a managed switch can do, plus has features typically only present in a router/firewall, which I got at a price-point that made the higher cost completely worth it.
http://support.netgear.com/product/GS108Ev3
http://support.netgear.com/product/GS108Ev2 <- I have this one.

While the fact remains that 802.1p w/QoS supporting switches can't help (via/due to 802.1p), if you don't set up QoS in the router (or within a switch like the last type I mentioned), and mix in other switches not supporting 802.1p, it still would seem to be logical you are getting a higher-grade switch, if it is supported.

Netgear has been good for me for switches. But, some of their residential wireless router gateways have been utter garbage, flaky, or dying early deaths, and their support is awful/useless, unless you pay a subscription for a yearly support contract.

Even trendnet sells versions of their switches with 802.1p support. They just never seem to be the ones you see on sale. Given I've had more than one of their typical models die, with the smell of burning electronics, or just had them slowly die port by port, and no other brand has ever done that to me, I'm done with trendnet. I even pulled out the ones that showed no signs of failing.

The testimonials of those using trendnet brand, without any issues, will come, as will the naysayers about how QoS and/or 802.1p priority tags are either leftovers from the days of slow internet connections, or something a home network has no use for (only SMB/corporate). Let them come. I've said my piece. The arguments back and forth already exist in other threads. So, I will not repeat them here.

I'll also state that TiVos don't make use of 802.1p, but that hasn't stopped me from having unmistakably better TiVo OTT streaming experiences, and has allowed my VOIP boxes to work much better, plus wherever I want them, rather than only having a home-run connection to my router.

Good luck, and best wishes.


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