# DIY 10TB Roamio



## jmbach

It is now possible to create a 10 TB 16 TB to 20 TB Roamio from your current Roamio image depending on how the starting image was created. I need to create a tool I have created a tool to make it so one does not have to manually hex edit the hard drive. When Since that is done, I will post have posted the complete instructions. Here are some images.


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## jmbach

These are the instructions to create an internal drive larger than 4 TB and keep all your recordings. Current max drive sizes are 16 TB for a completely MFSTools created drive and 20 TB for an 8 TB MFSR created drive. Please read it in its entirety before doing anything. Also note this has only been verified to work on the Encore (TE3) interface. It should work on the Hydra/Mira (TE4) interface but no guarantees at this time.

I have not examined Weaknees drives so I cannot comment if this will work on those drives. It should work on MFSR created drives based on my conversations with ggeseike the creator of MFSR.

First download the latest MFSTools image from this post.

If your drive is larger than 4 TB, clone it to the new drive via your favorite cloning method and skip the mfscopy part of the instructions which I put in italics. If it is less than 4 TB then use MFSTools to copy it to the new drive. This will create a 4 TB image on your new drive with all your settings and recordings intact. A 4 TB image can use either method. Cloning is typically faster if you are retaining the recordings. If you do not care to retain the recordings, MFSTools is faster. (Just leave the 'a' off the command line)

Boot the MFSTools image with your drives hooked up to your computer.

Once logged into the MFSTools image using username *root* with password *tivo*, determine what the names of your drives are. Easiest way is to type *lsblk -o name,size,vendor* at the command line.

Here sdX is your source drive and sdY is your target drive.
_Run the command *mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then patiently wait. _

Once that command is finished or the cloning of your drive is finished, put the target drive into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.

Once that is done, return the drive to your computer. Your source drive is no longer needed and can to be disconnected from the computer. Will still use sdY for the target drive.

Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.

Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY*.

This will add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order to allow them to be coalesced when moved. If you have less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space you have left to add recording time.

Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.

This will move the added partition pair to a lowered numbered partition that TiVo now uses as a placeholder to keep the partitions aligned between the internal flash drive and hard drive. It will also coalesce the added pair if appropriate.

When that command is finished, I recommend that you verify it boots up in your TiVo successfully before repeating the commands to be on the safe side, however, it has worked without doing so.

Each mfsadd command followed by mfsaddfix command adds 2 TB of recording space to the drive and you can do that up to 3 times if that added partitions are not able to be coalesced and up to 6 times if all the added partitions are able to be coalesced. So repeat those two command until you have run out of space or have used up all the available open placeholder partitions.

If you happen to add more partitions than is available to move, mfsaddfix will reset the APM to remove the added partitions. Then when you put the drive back into the TiVo, it will ask that you divorce the external drive. Go ahead and do so. On rare occasions I have experienced a green screen boot loop when this has happened.

If you are experiencing any issues after the process, run a kickstart 58 on boot up. Some people are experiencing connection issues such that the connection does not complete and this seems to resolve it. I would stay away from kickstart 57 as I invariably get a green screen boot loop. MFSTools can help you recover from this in most circumstances.

*There are no warranties or guarantees with these images and I take no responsibility for anything that happens using these images or loss of recordings that could happen by using these tools. You are logged in as root so you could do dangerous things to your system if you are not careful. Be aware that TiVo could change their OS in the future that may cause loss of recordings because of the drive being expanded. If there are any issues with these files let me know and I will see what I can do.*


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## Cybernut

Fantastic! Just in time for Best Buy's Black Friday special pricing on WD Easystore 10TB.
Kudos to you jmbach for doing it again


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## Sparky1234

Wow!


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## jlin

My current drive is 6TB. So does that mean 10Tb is only possible as a newly formatted drive and I have to manually copy the programs over?


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## jmbach

jlin said:


> My current drive is 6TB. So does that mean 10Tb is only possible as a newly formatted drive and I have to manually copy the programs over?


There might be a way but you would have to be the Guinea pig. I was going to test my idea but my 6TB spare drive is now dead.

I only tested it on a 4TB image.


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## tommage1

Very nice. Not sure I full understand though, is it possible to copy/expand a current 4TB drive with recordings to the 10TB? With recordings/settings intact?


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Very nice. Not sure I full understand though, is it possible to copy/expand a current 4TB drive with recordings to the 10TB? With recordings/settings intact?


Yes. We may be able to go higher but I do not know how MFSTools will interact with a MFSR formatted drive larger than 4TB. Was going to test it with my 6TB drive, but it died. So until I get a replacement or someone else is willing to test it, we won't know for sure.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Yes. We may be able to go higher but I do not know how MFSTools will interact with a MFSR formatted drive larger than 4TB. Was going to test it with my 6TB drive, but it died. So until I get a replacement or someone else is willing to test it, we won't know for sure.


Maybe. I got one of those 10TB Easystores from BB, being shipped so might take awhile. Wow, if I can copy/expand my 4TB Roamios on to 10TB drives, well I guess I could record almost forever (as I have 5 Roamios). My 4TBs were not formatted by MFSR, they were copy/expanded from smaller drives using MFSTools though so not sure if would be valid for your test.

What about Bolts for 10TB? Don't even care about copying recordings, would start fresh (external of course). I think the limit is 8TB with MFSR?


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Maybe. I got one of those 10TB Easystores from BB, being shipped so might take awhile. Wow, if I can copy/expand my 4TB Roamios on to 10TB drives, well I guess I could record almost forever (as I have 5 Roamios). My 4TBs were not formatted by MFSR, they were copy/expanded from smaller drives using MFSTools though so not sure if would be valid for your test.
> 
> What about Bolts for 10TB? Don't even care about copying recordings, would start fresh (external of course). I think the limit is 8TB with MFSR?


I know it works with the MFStools expanded drive so we are good there. Hopefully today I can work on an app to automate the hex editing of the drive to make the process more streamlined.

In theory, it should work for Bolts as well. However with the latest TE4 update, some self upgraded drives became unusable stuck on the starting up screen. TE3 user interface does not seem to be affected. However, I have not tested this configuration.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> I know it works with the MFStools expanded drive so we are good there. Hopefully today I can work on an app to automate the hex editing of the drive to make the process more streamlined.
> 
> In theory, it should work for Bolts as well. However with the latest TE4 update, some self upgraded drives became unusable stuck on the starting up screen. TE3 user interface does not seem to be affected. However, I have not tested this configuration.


Yes, the Bolt is strange as you know. I know some people had problems with those internal drives after the update. Which MIGHT be SMR, that 4TB 2.5 WD for one, no one REALLY knows if it's SMR or PMR, WD couldn't even tell me. Has anyone reported a problem with a KNOWN PMR drive after update? Maybe I'll scan the threads, when/if I decide to use a Bolt again for sure I will be using an external 3.5 PMR drive hooked up direct to the Bolt motherboard. The people that got "stuck", I wonder if doing a low level format on the drive then letting the Bolt reformat it would help? Even if it works no guarantee a future update would not break it again though................


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> I know it works with the MFStools expanded drive so we are good there. Hopefully today I can work on an app to automate the hex editing of the drive to make the process more streamlined.
> 
> In theory, it should work for Bolts as well. However with the latest TE4 update, some self upgraded drives became unusable stuck on the starting up screen. TE3 user interface does not seem to be affected. However, I have not tested this configuration.


I'll be watching the area you reserved for updates. My one Tivo that is still used with cable has a nearly full 4TB. If I can copy and expand it to 8 or 10TB I will probably do it. I also have a Roamio with an 8TB created fresh with MFSR (well it was fresh, now has a lot of recordings). Since it was created with MFSR it may work for that test of over 4TB, copy and expand the MFSR 8TB to 10TB?


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> I'll be watching the area you reserved for updates. My one Tivo that is still used with cable has a nearly full 4TB. If I can copy and expand it to 8 or 10TB I will probably do it. I also have a Roamio with an 8TB created fresh with MFSR (well it was fresh, now has a lot of recordings). Since it was created with MFSR it may work for that test of over 4TB, copy and expand the MFSR 8TB to 10TB?


What is the model of the TiVo that is still used with cable.

And yes, your MFSR created Roamio would work for my test. After discussing with ggieseke how MFSR creates its layout, I am fairly certain it will work.


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## tommage1

The cable/4Tb Tivo is a Roamio Plus. The MFSR 8TB Roamio is a "basic" or whatever they like to call it, 4 tuner, cable and OTA. The 10TB EasyStore will be arriving middle of the week. I will check it to make sure it has a WD 10TB helium inside.


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## tommage1

I am watching here, have 8 and 10TB drives ready to test. I assume will have to download new version of MFS tools? Am curious what could be done now, requiring hex editing, though I have not done that before perhaps with instructions?


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> I am watching here, have 8 and 10TB drives ready to test. I assume will have to download new version of MFS tools? Am curious what could be done now, requiring hex editing, though I have not done that before perhaps with instructions?


I almost have the program to automate the hex edits completed. In the meantime, since your drives are already 4TB or larger, I would clone the drives to your target drives.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> I almost have the program to automate the hex edits completed. In the meantime, since your drives are already 4TB or larger, I would clone the drives to your target drives.


Ok, the possible plan is to copy and expand a nearly full current 4TB drive to the 8TB. And possibly copy and expand an 8TB which was created with MFSR fresh (at the time, now half full) to the 10TB. Both Roamios, one "basic" one "plus". So I could clone both now (the 4 to 8 and the 8 to 10) with current MFSTools or a dock, then finish up later when the new version is ready?


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Ok, the possible plan is to copy and expand a nearly full current 4TB drive to the 8TB. And possibly copy and expand an 8TB which was created with MFSR fresh (at the time, now half full) to the 10TB. Both Roamios, one "basic" one "plus". So I could clone both now (the 4 to 8 and the 8 to 10) with current MFSTools or a dock, then finish up later when the new version is ready?


Yes, I would clone the drives and not use MFSTools as it will not go over 4TB and it would take much longer to copy the 4 TB to the 8 TB drive than clone it.

I have discussed MFSR formatted drives and the same process should work.

Do not expand the drives at this time with MFSTools because if you place an expanded drive in your TiVo with the modifications, it will reformat the drive.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Yes, I would clone the drives and not use MFSTools as it will not go over 4TB and it would take much longer to copy the 4 TB to the 8 TB drive than clone it.
> 
> I have discussed MFSR formatted drives and the same process should work.
> 
> Do not expand the drives at this time with MFSTools because if you place an expanded drive in your TiVo with the modifications, it will reformat the drive.


Actually I think I will wait for the update as my current drives are constantly changing, when I do the copy/expands I would want what is on them at the time to be copied to the new drives  Thanks, no rush.


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Actually I think I will wait for the update as my current drives are constantly changing, when I do the copy/expands I would want what is on them at the time to be copied to the new drives  Thanks, no rush.


All you have to do is clone the drives and use the clones in your TiVos.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> All you have to do is clone the drives and use the clones in your TiVos.


I see, since cloning they will not have full capacity but that can be added later. Ok.


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> I see, since cloning they will not have full capacity but that can be added later. Ok.


Exactly.


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## jmbach

@tommage1 With ggeseike helping me to work out the crc checksum routine to update the MFS header, I finally got the helper program to make the edits on the drive working. All I need now is to incorporate it in the MFSTools ISO.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> @tommage1 With ggeseike helping me to work out the crc checksum routine to update the MFS header, I finally got the helper program to make the edits on the drive working. All I need now is to incorporate it in the MFSTools ISO.


Wonderful. looking forward to it, thanks for all your work


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Wonderful. looking forward to it, thanks for all your work


The new ISO and the instructions are now posted. Any problems let me know. If the instructions are not clear enough let me know as well.


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## rcdanielson

jmbach said:


> The new ISO and the instructions are now posted. Any problems let me know. If the instructions are not clear enough let me know as well.


Please specify where the new ISO and instructions are posted. Thanks for your help.


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## jmbach

rcdanielson said:


> Please specify where the new ISO and instructions are posted. Thanks for your help.


Look at post 2 of this thread


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> The new ISO and the instructions are now posted. Any problems let me know. If the instructions are not clear enough let me know as well.


I am a bit confused on the ISO. When clicking on the link I get a download ending in raw.tar.gz2. I extract gz2 with 7zip and end up with a tar file. If I try extracting the tar file I get a raw file. Not sure how to get ISO that I can burn to DVD?


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## jmbach

Maybe I linked the wrong file. Should be two files. One ISO and one compressed raw file. Once you unzip it to a raw file, you can use dd to copy the contents of the raw file to a drive or USB and boot off of that. Let me check the link.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Maybe I linked the wrong file. Should be two files. One ISO and one compressed raw file. Once you unzip it to a raw file, you can use dd to copy the contents of the raw file to a drive or USB and boot off of that. Let me check the link.


I tried both links, both seemed to take me to the same file, the raw.tar.gz2 file. I will wait for you to check, thanks


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## tommage1

Just tried the first link again, says ISO, maybe I hit the wrong one before or you just fixed it, am downloading now.


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## tommage1

Ok, downloaded and burned to a CD since it fit. Nice holiday theme on the menu  For some reason some does not "fit" width wise on my screen (I use a 32" TV as a monitor, the command lines on the left are partially off screen) but am able to get it running. I really like the fact I can create the clone in a dock, then add the other partitions. Will save me a lot of time, takes about 17 hours to clone 4TB on my computer, half that in the dock. Thanks again for all your work on this, opens up a whole new world for people who want to copy and expand to the REALLY large drives. Oh, you mention you can run the add 2TB partition 3 times. So a 4TB drive can be expanded to 10TB. Not that it matters (for now) but would it be possible to be able to add 4-5 times in the future to get to 12/14TB? Do you recommend running the kickstart 58 as part of the process?


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Ok, downloaded and burned to a CD since it fit. Nice holiday theme on the menu  For some reason some does not "fit" width wise on my screen (I use a 32" TV as a monitor, the command lines on the left are partially off screen) but am able to get it running. I really like the fact I can create the clone in a dock, then add the other partitions. Will save me a lot of time, takes about 17 hours to clone 4TB on my computer, half that in the dock. Thanks again for all your work on this, opens up a whole new world for people who want to copy and expand to the REALLY large drives. Oh, you mention you can run the add 2TB partition 3 times. So a 4TB drive can be expanded to 10TB. Not that it matters (for now) but would it be possible to be able to add 4-5 times in the future to get to 12/14TB? Do you recommend running the kickstart 58 as part of the process?


The theoretical max I could get with an initial standard 4TB image is 16 TB. If you have an 8TB MFSR starting image, it would be 20TB. That would require coalescing the added partitions which is a topic for later.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> The theoretical max I could get with an initial standard 4TB image is 16 TB. If you have an 8TB MFSR starting image, it would be 20TB. That would require coalescing the added partitions which is a topic for later.


Very interesting. By the way I solved the command lines not fitting on my screen by just running the failsafe. Burned to CD but also put the ISO on a USB flash drive (using Yumi). Very handy, can have multiple ISOs on the flash drive, just choose which you want to run when booting.


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Very interesting. By the way I solved the command lines not fitting on my screen by just running the failsafe. Burned to CD but also put the ISO on a USB flash drive (using Yumi). Very handy, can have multiple ISOs on the flash drive, just choose which you want to run when booting.


Technically if you are willing to add an external drive, you could add another 4TB but that would be the absolute max as you run out of MFS header space.


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## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Technically if you are willing to add an external drive, you could add another 4TB but that would be the absolute max as you run out of MFS header space.


Always nice to know the limits  I'm thinking with 6 Tivos, 1 with 3TB, 3 with 4TB, one with 8TB, and one with either 8 or 10TB plus the ability to transfer back and forth (since I am on Gen 3) I SHOULD have enough recording space, for awhile................


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## tommage1

Ok my first try with 3.3. Copy and expanding a nearly full 4TB drive in a Roamio Plus on cable. On TE3 classic interface. The 4TB had been copy and expanded over time using MFSTools 3.2. 637 HD hours.

1. Cloned the 4TB to the 8TB using a Sabrent cloning dock. Very nice, a bit less than 8 hours for a full 4TB drive.
2. Put in Tivo and tested, looked good.
3. Used MFST 3.3 mfsadd 2000 and mfsaddfix.
4. Put drive in Tivo, now 983 HD hours. Looked good.
5. Used MFST 3.3 again, add 2000 and fix.
6. Put in Tivo, looks good, now 1281 HD hours, 49% full, my 4TB was at 99% full.

Am getting all channels that I have checked so cable card setting has been preserved. Connected to Tivo a couple times (though will be more of a test when the next guide update becomes available). All seems to be working fine, wonderful!!!

Am considering running a kickstart 58 as a precaution, I've had a few issues with another Roamio that had been copy and expanded in the past, shows that were ok before got message "unable to record", also shows going out of wishlist folders (shows were still there, just not in the folders anymore). The kickstart 58 fixed those problems (well it did not put the wishlist shows back into the wishlist folders but am rerecording those wishlists). Which is why I am thinking of running it as a precaution.

Next project will be to copy and expand an 8TB drive that started fresh with MFSR to 10TB. May be awhile though as I will wait until that Tivo has a recording "break".


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Ok my first try with 3.3. Copy and expanding a nearly full 4TB drive in a Roamio Plus on cable. On TE3 classic interface. The 4TB had been copy and expanded over time using MFSTools 3.2. 637 HD hours.
> 
> 1. Cloned the 4TB to the 8TB using a Sabrent cloning dock. Very nice, a bit less than 8 hours for a full 4TB drive.
> 2. Put in Tivo and tested, looked good.
> 3. Used MFST 3.3 mfsadd 2000 and mfsaddfix.
> 4. Put drive in Tivo, now 983 HD hours. Looked good.
> 5. Used MFST 3.3 again, add 2000 and fix.
> 6. Put in Tivo, looks good, now 1281 HD hours, 49% full, my 4TB was at 99% full.
> 
> Am getting all channels that I have checked so cable card setting has been preserved. Connected to Tivo a couple times (though will be more of a test when the next guide update becomes available). All seems to be working fine, wonderful!!!
> 
> Am considering running a kickstart 58 as a precaution, I've had a few issues with another Roamio that had been copy and expanded in the past, shows that were ok before got message "unable to record", also shows going out of wishlist folders (shows were still there, just not in the folders anymore). The kickstart 58 fixed those problems (well it did not put the wishlist shows back into the wishlist folders but am rerecording those wishlists). Which is why I am thinking of running it as a precaution.
> 
> Next project will be to copy and expand an 8TB drive that started fresh with MFSR to 10TB. May be awhile though as I will wait until that Tivo has a recording "break".


I think running KS 58 is a good idea. TiVo seems to have really revamped KS 58 allowing to correct a lot of things. Never had one boot loop with a KS 58. Now I always seem to get green screen boot loops with a KS 57. So I would stay away from that one.


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## Cybernut

Hi jmbach, Cybernut here.

Got a 6-tuner Roamio Plus with stock 1 TB and a 10 TB (WD Easystore). I want to do this upgrade but I have a couple questions.
About 6 months ago, I upgraded another Roamio but that was to 8TB, so I went the MFSR route since I did not want to preserve any recordings.
Well, same thing with this new Roamio - don't need to preserve recordings...but MFSR doesn't work for 10 TB. So I am sure MFSTools is the right tool. So in that case do I still need to run the mfscopy step since I do not care about recordings (plus I have C&DE'd the stock drive anyway)...and since OS is not kept on drive. Please advise what steps I need to do - do I follow all steps in your post# 2 for drives under 4TB, or can I skip certain steps?


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## jmbach

Cybernut said:


> Hi jmbach, Cybernut here.
> 
> Got a 6-tuner Roamio Plus with stock 1 TB and a 10 TB (WD Easystore). I want to do this upgrade but I have a couple questions.
> About 6 months ago, I upgraded another Roamio but that was to 8TB, so I went the MFSR route since I did not want to preserve any recordings.
> Well, same thing with this new Roamio - don't need to preserve recordings...but MFSR doesn't work for 10 TB. So I am sure MFSTools is the right tool. So in that case do I still need to run the mfscopy step since I do not care about recordings (plus I have C&DE'd the stock drive anyway)...and since OS is not kept on drive. Please advise what steps I need to do - do I follow all steps in your post# 2 for drives under 4TB, or can I skip certain steps?


Yes you will have to run the mfscopy command. Just leave the 'a' off of the command line.


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## Cybernut

Thanks jmbach! Unfortunately I am stuck. Burnt the iso to a CD and booted off of the disc, with the 2 drives in a Thermaltake BlacX Duet dock (that I have used previously in all my tivo upgrade efforts with success) - but no matter what I tried, the drives don't show up at all. I see the laptop's SSD and the internal BDRE device, but not the drives on USB dock. I switched out the cables to use an USB 2.0 as well as on a separate attempt connected to the laptop's USB 2.0 port (after 3.0 port did not work) and no luck. The drives just don't show up. Not sure what else I can do at this point.


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## jmbach

Cybernut said:


> Thanks jmbach! Unfortunately I am stuck. Burnt the iso to a CD and booted off of the disc, with the 2 drives in a Thermaltake BlacX Duet dock (that I have used previously in all my tivo upgrade efforts with success) - but no matter what I tried, the drives don't show up at all. I see the laptop's SSD and the internal BDRE device, but not the drives on USB dock. I switched out the cables to use an USB 2.0 as well as on a separate attempt connected to the laptop's USB 2.0 port (after 3.0 port did not work) and no luck. The drives just don't show up. Not sure what else I can do at this point.


Boot the iso with only one drive in the dock and see if it can detect it. Then repeat the process with the other drive. Make sure it can read each drive individually. Then if it reads both drives, add the other drive in and see if it will read both drives. I dis have a situation once where the orientation of the drives made a difference on how the drives were seen by the computer.


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## tommage1

Cybernut said:


> Thanks jmbach! Unfortunately I am stuck. Burnt the iso to a CD and booted off of the disc, with the 2 drives in a Thermaltake BlacX Duet dock (that I have used previously in all my tivo upgrade efforts with success) - but no matter what I tried, the drives don't show up at all. I see the laptop's SSD and the internal BDRE device, but not the drives on USB dock. I switched out the cables to use an USB 2.0 as well as on a separate attempt connected to the laptop's USB 2.0 port (after 3.0 port did not work) and no luck. The drives just don't show up. Not sure what else I can do at this point.


Are you sure your Duet dock can handle 10TB drives? Some docks are supposedly limited on drive size. Not sure if you have a desktop computer available but always better to use direct connections to Sata ports on motherboard if possible. Some Easystore drives (when taken out of the original enclosure), will not be seen by certain computers without taping over one of the pins on the connector also. Or using a good quality molex to Sata power connector. Not sure if this is true when connecting through USB dock, maybe not since the original enclosure for those drives is USB. I must say though, I am not that familiar doing upgrades via USB toaster docks so I am guessing here. Definitely try what Jmbach suggests, try the drives one at a time in the dock, see if recognized, especially the 10TB. When I did my clone for the upgrade I was using a Sabrent dual dock that is supposed to handle up to 10TB drives. Never had to connect the dock to the computer though, just used it to clone, then performed the upgrade on the computer, only the larger drive connected.


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## Cybernut

Thanks jmbach & tommage1 for the tips. Bit of good news - once I tried to use one drive at a time, I saw both drives were seen by Linux. So then I proceeded to put them back in the same order and this time BOTH were recognized. So what had happened earlier? I do not know for sure but my best guess is either one or both drives were not properly seated (despite me checking if they would come off by lifting each drive by the top individually and for both drives the whole dock with the other drive were lifted up).

I have done step 1 (mfscopy) but here's the thing. My buddy sold me the tivo (with lifetime) for a buck because he mentioned his recordings were freezing up frequently during playback, and I suspected it was a case of bad sectors. And sure enough during the mfscopy, in 2-3 places the program complained about bad sector and then moved on. At the end of the process it did a cleanup. I am attaching a screenshot. Apologies for the slightly unfocused screenshot and the left portion cut off slightly.

jmbach - Can you tell from the screenshot if it's okay to proceed to next step? Yes, I will put it back into the tivo and test but I am just concerned if the bad sectors when attempted to be copied onto target drive will create some unreadable sectors on target drive.


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## tommage1

Perhaps Jmbach can answer that from your screen. A possible solution would be get a clean image for your model, put it on a "good" drive, then upgrade that drive? Assuming you have a spare drive sitting around. Maybe test it first, using one of the free testing programs available, SeaTools, Crystal Disk, HDDScan etc. And test it in the Tivo before starting any upgrade procedure. Wouldn't hurt to scan your new 10TB too, even new drives can have issues.


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## jmbach

Cybernut said:


> Thanks jmbach & tommage1 for the tips. Bit of good news - once I tried to use one drive at a time, I saw both drives were seen by Linux. So then I proceeded to put them back in the same order and this time BOTH were recognized. So what had happened earlier? I do not know for sure but my best guess is either one or both drives were not properly seated (despite me checking if they would come off by lifting each drive by the top individually and for both drives the whole dock with the other drive were lifted up).
> 
> I have done step 1 (mfscopy) but here's the thing. My buddy sold me the tivo (with lifetime) for a buck because he mentioned his recordings were freezing up frequently during playback, and I suspected it was a case of bad sectors. And sure enough during the mfscopy, in 2-3 places the program complained about bad sector and then moved on. At the end of the process it did a cleanup. I am attaching a screenshot. Apologies for the slightly unfocused screenshot and the left portion cut off slightly.
> 
> jmbach - Can you tell from the screenshot if it's okay to proceed to next step? Yes, I will put it back into the tivo and test but I am just concerned if the bad sectors when attempted to be copied onto target drive will create some unreadable sectors on target drive.
> 
> View attachment 38628


What I would do is put the drive in the TiVo and run a kickstart 58 on boot up. Hopefully that will fix any issues if the bad spots were in the OS section of the drive. Otherwise they are in the recording sect99n and you will just have a few bad recordings.

After you do that, I would ring mfsck on the drive. It it passes that then I would go ahead with the rest of the process.


----------



## Cybernut

jmbach - So I put the new drive back in tivo (only the first step of mfscopy has been run at this point) and the tivo is in a GSOD loop...it reboots every 4-5 mins. I have been letting this reboot-show GSOD in 3-4 mins -reboot loop run for about 40 mins. I do not think it's really fixing anything, but I'll let this loop run for another 2 hrs, just in case it takes a while to work with a 10 TB drive.

Any other advice?
I am wondering what tommage1 wrote is a viable alternate - that is download a fresh tivo image, put it on a good 1TB drive (which I have), and then do the same steps I have done thus far (basically mfscopy 1TB to 10TB). In theory that sounds right...wondering if it will actually work.


----------



## jmbach

Cybernut said:


> jmbach - So I put the new drive back in tivo (only the first step of mfscopy has been run at this point) and the tivo is in a GSOD loop...it reboots every 4-5 mins. I have been letting this reboot-show GSOD in 3-4 mins -reboot loop run for about 40 mins. I do not think it's really fixing anything, but I'll let this loop run for another 2 hrs, just in case it takes a while to work with a 10 TB drive.
> 
> Any other advice?
> I am wondering what tommage1 wrote is a viable alternate - that is download a fresh tivo image, put it on a good 1TB drive (which I have), and then do the same steps I have done thus far (basically mfscopy 1TB to 10TB). In theory that sounds right...wondering if it will actually work.


Did you do a KS 58 or KS 57. For me a KS 57 always green screen boot loops. KS 58 generally fixes most things.

If you do not need the recordings at all, use WD diagnostic and do a complete write and read on that 1 TB. That should mark and remap the bad spots. Put the 1 TB in the Roamio and go through setup. Then copy the drive to the 10 TB using MFSTools. Alternatively you can use any 4 TB or less drive you have handy instead of the 1 TB.

Remember, Roamios will correctly format any drive that is 3TB or less.


----------



## Cybernut

jmbach said:


> Did you do a KS 58 or KS 57. For me a KS 57 always green screen boot loops. KS 58 generally fixes most things. ...


I did a KS 58. Got the boot loop from that.



jmbach said:


> ...If you do not need the recordings at all, use WD diagnostic and do a complete write and read on that 1 TB. That should mark and remap the bad spots. Put the 1 TB in the Roamio and go through setup. Alternatively you can use any 4 TB or less drive you have handy instead of the 1 TB...


I do not need any recordings....in fact, I did a C&DE on the 1TB before starting, so there are no recordings. I will try this step. I will have the bad spots marked and then put the 1TB back and run through setup. Then try to do the mfscopy to 10TB again. Hopefully that'll work. If it does not work, I do have a 1TB (my tivo Premiere's stock drive that I do not care keeping the image for any more - besides I can always get the Premiere image if needed from this forum) - so I will put that 1TB (after I format it as I don't know what'll happen if I put in the Premiere stock drive with the OS on the drive as-is) in the tivo and run guided setup and then use that 1TB for copying to 10TB.

Thanks for the tips.


----------



## jmbach

Cybernut said:


> I did a KS 58. Got the boot loop from that.
> 
> I do not need any recordings....in fact, I did a C&DE on the 1TB before starting, so there are no recordings. I will try this step. I will have the bad spots marked and then put the 1TB back and run through setup. Then try to do the mfscopy to 10TB again. Hopefully that'll work. If it does not work, I do have a 1TB (my tivo Premiere's stock drive that I do not care keeping the image for any more - besides I can always get the Premiere image if needed from this forum) - so I will put that 1TB (after I format it as I don't know what'll happen if I put in the Premiere stock drive with the OS on the drive as-is) in the tivo and run guided setup and then use that 1TB for copying to 10TB.
> 
> Thanks for the tips.


Just need to do a quick write with WD diagnostic on that drive. You could use DvrBARS to back up the drive first to save the Premiere image.


----------



## Cybernut

Ok - thanks...but was not needed. Your tips from the previous comment worked.
I fixed the Roamio 1TB drive using WD diagnostic after running extended test. Then did mfscopy (skipping the a switch). Then put the 10TB in and did a KS 58 and this time the green screen came on AND stayed on for a few minutes. That's when I knew it was actually doing some fixing. And then it rebooted just a minute ago and brought itself to the country screen of guided setup. I shall proceed onto the next steps from here and will post back with final results. Many thanks!


----------



## Cybernut

And success!! Thank you jmbach for a smooth and flawless method and for your generous help as always!!


----------



## ncbill

A-freaking-mazing...


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> I think running KS 58 is a good idea. TiVo seems to have really revamped KS 58 allowing to correct a lot of things. Never had one boot loop with a KS 58. Now I always seem to get green screen boot loops with a KS 57. So I would stay away from that one.


Just FYI I did run the KS 58. No problems. Since I had over 2K recordings figured why not to play it safe. KS 57s I do stay away from, ran one on an S3, now every time I power it up it reboots again after the initial start, kind of like it's running a 57 whenever I power it up. Does work ok after the second start though.


----------



## Kishore

FYI you can buy 10TB WD 'Easystore' from Ebay/BB for $170 now- lowest price 

 LINK


----------



## MisterWho

jmbach said:


> Next run the command *mfsadd -xm 2000 /dev/sdY*.
> Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.
> When that command is finished, I recommend that you verify it boots up in your TiVo successfully before repeating the commands to be on the safe side, however, it has worked without doing so.
> 
> Each mfsadd command followed by mfsaddfix command adds 2 TB of recording space to the drive and you can do that up to 3 times. So repeat those two command until you have run out of space or have run them 3 times.
> 
> If you happen to add more space than is available to add with mfsadd, mfsaddfix will reset the APM to remove the added partitions. Then when you put the drive back into the TiVo, it will ask that you divorce the external drive. Go ahead and do so.


I'm a dunce, so I'm sure I'm missing the obvious, but... Following the above direction, and given that you can add 2 TB up to 3 times, does that mean if starting with having copied over a 3 TB drive, you only end up with 9 TB and not the full 10 TB (3+2+2+2=9)?


----------



## Kishore

MisterWho said:


> I'm a dunce, so I'm sure I'm missing the obvious, but... Following the above direction, and given that you can add 2 TB up to 3 times, does that mean if starting with having copied over a 3 TB drive, you only end up with 9 TB and not the full 10 TB (3+2+2+2=9)?


Jmbach started with a 4TB drive; so you will have to do one more addition if your start with 3TB...


----------



## jmbach

MisterWho said:


> I'm a dunce, so I'm sure I'm missing the obvious, but... Following the above direction, and given that you can add 2 TB up to 3 times, does that mean if starting with having copied over a 3 TB drive, you only end up with 9 TB and not the full 10 TB (3+2+2+2=9)?


It depends on how you copy the 3 TB image to the 10 TB drive. If you clone the image, then yes. If you use the mfscopy command as outlined in the post, you will have 10 TB because the command creates a 4 TB image on the 10 TB drive out of your 3 TB image.


----------



## sliderbob

On my Roamio Plus, if I take out my already upgraded 4tb drive and clone it to a 8tb drive, will I need to get my cablecard paired again with Xfinity or will the Tivo have kept the info in memory and it will be good to go?


----------



## jmbach

sliderbob said:


> On my Roamio Plus, if I take out my already upgraded 4tb drive and clone it to a 8tb drive, will I need to get my cablecard paired again with Xfinity or will the Tivo have kept the info in memory and it will be good to go?


The cableCARD pairing is preserved.


----------



## ShldBeStdy

Kishore said:


> FYI you can buy 10TB WD 'Easystore' from Ebay/BB for $170 now- lowest price
> 
> LINK


These can be shucked and will work inside roamio?

I just reread the previous posts and see specific mention of these. I presume that means they will work. Let's see if I can get it done. I may be back asking for help.


----------



## ShldBeStdy

jmbach said:


> It is now possible to create a 10TB Roamio from your current Roamio image as long as it is 4TB or less in size. I need to create a tool to make it so one does not have to manually hex edit the hard drive. When that is done, I will post the complete instructions. Here are some images.
> 
> View attachment 37683
> View attachment 37684


Thank you for providing this! I was able to go from 1 TB to 10 TB and keep all my current recordings. I took three pictures; one before, one after copy, and the one after extending the drive to full capacity. Went from 71% full to 7% full.


----------



## Scott9mm

Many thanks to JMBach and all the folks that created and improved these MFS tools. I have a Roamio Plus and some spare 3T WD green drives and I wanted to upgrade from the stock 1T drive to 3T.

At first I cloned the 1T drive to a 3T drive with a Sabrent docking station. The cloned 3T drive ran fine but still indicated 1T capacity, of course. Then I tried to expand it using the instructions in post #2 but I must have done something wrong because TiVo wanted to do the full guided setup when I put the drive in the TiVo and I suspcted my recordings and settings wouldn't survive.

So then I did a MFStools 3.3 copy from the original 1T drive to the 3T drive. It took over 6 hours using the Sabrent docking station. I used the -ai flag (saw in another post) vs the -am 2000 flag but I don't know if that made any difference. When I put the 3T copy in the TiVo I needed to re-pair the cable card but all other settings and programs were intact and the disk runs perfectly. I couldn't be more happy with the result. Many thanks.

Correction: With the "new" 3T drive, the TiVo service connection was failing during the information loading step. A Kickstart 58 fixed it. Thanks to those that already found and documented this fix.


----------



## nyjklein

Not sure if this one works, but now $160 at Best Buy with an added 32GB flash drive: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-eas...usb-flash-drive-black/6290669.p?skuId=6290669


----------



## angra

Just a little teaser


----------



## mstrbill

unfortunately, looks I need some help with a new drive for our Bolt. I cloned the 4 TB drive, to an 8 TB drive using a standalone docking station. It boot fine in the Bolt(in an external case) But when I run msfadd it says

Current estimated standalone size: 4775 hours
Nothing to add!

mfsaddfix says

Incorrect number of partitions found.
Expected 16 and found 14.
Unable to process drive.

I accidentally ran msfr on the drive and had to clone it again. Maybe I should have zero'ed the drive out before cloning?

Bill


----------



## jmbach

mstrbill said:


> unfortunately, looks I need some help with a new drive for our Bolt. I cloned the 4 TB drive, to an 8 TB drive using a standalone docking station. It boot fine in the Bolt(in an external case) But when I run msfadd it says
> 
> Current estimated standalone size: 4775 hours
> Nothing to add!
> 
> mfsaddfix says
> 
> Incorrect number of partitions found.
> Expected 16 and found 14.
> Unable to process drive.
> 
> I accidentally ran msfr on the drive and had to clone it again. Maybe I should have zero'ed the drive out before cloning?
> 
> Bill


There is a modified version of MFSTools mfsadd you will need to use on Bolts which has not been released yet that fixes that problem.


----------



## mstrbill

jmbach said:


> There is a modified version of MFSTools mfsadd you will need to use on Bolts which has not been released yet that fixes that problem.


Thanks, I got here from another thread, that said go here and follow the directions. I will be happy with a working 4tb drive for now.


----------



## jonw747

My 6TB Roamio Pro had been acting flaky lately, so I ordered a 10GB WD Red and completed the upgrade yesterday. 
I used a Fideco dual bay docking station (YPZ04-S2HC) as my old Sabrent I used for the 6TB did not work. The first attempt with the Fideco failed (stopped blinking, all lights red), but that may have been because I was using the Sabrent's PSU which had the same rating and a better form-factor. The second try with the Fideco's PSU worked taking 26 hours or so (stopped blinking, with one or two LEDs blue). The Fideco has terrible documentation.

After the clone, I put it in my Roamio, and it booted up fine.

I used the same PC I had used to clone the 6TB drive, and had to set the BIOS to legacy ATA mode and enable the internal Intel video, but it was able to boot the flash drive. 

I went ahead and just ran mfsadd and mfsaddfix twice to add 4TB of expansion, popped it back in my Roamio Pro and so far so good.

Much thanks to jmbach


----------



## Mark Washburn

Can I expand a tivo formatted drive?
I Had a loaded 3tb tivo formatted drive going bad that I cloned onto 6tb red drive. Everything works great except it reads as 3tb drive (Red drive seems awesome so quiet compared to Seagate drive I had in the series 5)!
Can I expand the red without starting all over again? 
If not, will I need to reformat the 6tb drive before starting the whole process?
I'm worried as the old 3tb is on its last leg, and I'm not sure it'll do another clone. Anyone ever tried, or know if it's possible?


----------



## jmbach

Mark Washburn said:


> Can I expand a tivo formatted drive?
> I Had a loaded 3tb tivo formatted drive going bad that I cloned onto 6tb red drive. Everything works great except it reads as 3tb drive (Red drive seems awesome so quiet compared to Seagate drive I had in the series 5)!
> Can I expand the red without starting all over again?
> If not, will I need to reformat the 6tb drive before starting the whole process?
> I'm worried as the old 3tb is on its last leg, and I'm not sure it'll do another clone. Anyone ever tried, or know if it's possible?


You should be able to expand the recording space using the instructions at the beginning of the thread.


----------



## steve_scifi

jmbach said:


> You should be able to expand the recording space using the instructions at the beginning of the thread.


Not sure I am ready yet to take this plunge (did the 3tb about a year ago) but this is impressive work jmbach!!


----------



## Ronald Pasqualini

Hi JM,

I have a Roamio, with an upgraded 3 TB disk, running Tivo’s 20.7.4 software.

Since the Roamio disk is 80% full, I just purchased a 10TB WD Red disk that I will externally connect to the Roamio via a direct-connect SATA cable.

Based upon input from Greg Giese, it looks like I can upgrade the Roamio disk capacity from 3TB to 10TB, while saving all of my recorded programs, using MFSTools and an external dual SATA dock. The procedure would go something like this:

1) Download the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO and burn it to a CD (or DVD)

2) Put my existing 3TB Roamio disk and my new 10TB disk into the external SATA dock

3) Boot my computer from the CD

4) Since my Roamio disk is 3TB, and I want to increase the disk capacity to 10TB, I need to copy (not clone) the 3TB disk to the new 10TB disk using MFSTools. (This copy actually creates a 4TB image on the 10TB disk).

5) Run the mfscopy -am 2000 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY command to copy all of my recorded programs to the 10TB disk

6) Put the 10TB disk back into my Roamio and make sure that it boots up properly, and that it successfully connects to the Tivo service

7) Remove the 10TB disk from my Roamio and put it back into the SATA dock

8) Run the mfsadd -xm 2000 /dev/sdY command on the 10TB disk

9) Run the mfsaddfix /dev/sdY command on the 10TB disk

10) Since steps 8 & 9 combined add 2TB of disk capacity, I can run them two more times to add a total of 6TB to the original 4TB of disk capacity (4+2+2+2=10TB)

11) To be on the safe side, run Kickstart 58

I also need to make sure that my dual SATA dock will handle 10TB disks.

Question #1:
----------------
Is the above procedure correct?

And now for the hard stuff... -

Question #2:
----------------
Since I just purchased a 1TB BOLT whose software I will downgrade from 21.x to 20.7.4, will the 10TB Roamio disk (prepared as described above) also work when externally connected to the BOLT via a direct-connect SATA cable? If so, great!!! 

If not, is there a way to use MFSTools to prepare a 10TB BOLT compatible disk, while saving all of my recorded Roamio programs on it?

Thanks for your help,
Ron


----------



## jmbach

Ronald Pasqualini said:


> Hi JM,
> 
> I have a Roamio, with an upgraded 3 TB disk, running Tivo's 20.7.4 software.
> 
> Since the Roamio disk is 80% full, I just purchased a 10TB WD Red disk that I will externally connect to the Roamio via a direct-connect SATA cable.
> 
> Based upon input from Greg Giese, it looks like I can upgrade the Roamio disk capacity from 3TB to 10TB, while saving all of my recorded programs, using MFSTools and an external dual SATA dock. The procedure would go something like this:
> 
> 1) Download the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO and burn it to a CD (or DVD)
> 
> 2) Put my existing 3TB Roamio disk and my new 10TB disk into the external SATA dock
> 
> 3) Boot my computer from the CD
> 
> 4) Since my Roamio disk is 3TB, and I want to increase the disk capacity to 10TB, I need to copy (not clone) the 3TB disk to the new 10TB disk using MFSTools. (This copy actually creates a 4TB image on the 10TB disk).
> 
> 5) Run the mfscopy -am 2000 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY command to copy all of my recorded programs to the 10TB disk
> 
> 6) Put the 10TB disk back into my Roamio and make sure that it boots up properly, and that it successfully connects to the Tivo service
> 
> 7) Remove the 10TB disk from my Roamio and put it back into the SATA dock
> 
> 8) Run the mfsadd -xm 2000 /dev/sdY command on the 10TB disk
> 
> 9) Run the mfsaddfix /dev/sdY command on the 10TB disk
> 
> 10) Since steps 8 & 9 combined add 2TB of disk capacity, I can run them two more times to add a total of 6TB to the original 4TB of disk capacity (4+2+2+2=10TB)
> 
> 11) To be on the safe side, run Kickstart 58
> 
> I also need to make sure that my dual SATA dock will handle 10TB disks.
> 
> Question #1:
> ----------------
> Is the above procedure correct?
> 
> And now for the hard stuff... -
> 
> Question #2:
> ----------------
> Since I just purchased a 1TB BOLT whose software I will downgrade from 21.x to 20.7.4, will the 10TB Roamio disk (prepared as described above) also work when externally connected to the BOLT via a direct-connect SATA cable? If so, great!!!
> 
> If not, is there a way to use MFSTools to prepare a 10TB BOLT compatible disk, while saving all of my recorded Roamio programs on it?
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> Ron


Question 1 yes

Question 2 No to retained recordings from a Roamio drive going into a Bolt. Only thing you can do is transfer recordings that are not copy protected from the Roamio to the Bolt via kmttg or direct transfer with both hooked to your network.


----------



## Ronald Pasqualini

jmbach said:


> Question 1 yes
> 
> Question 2 No to retained recordings from a Roamio drive going into a Bolt. Only thing you can do is transfer recordings that are not copy protected from the Roamio to the Bolt via kmttg or direct transfer with both hooked to your network.


Hi JM,

Thanks very much for your reply. I really appreciate it.

To be honest, I didn't expect that a Roamio disk would work in a Bolt. Therefore, I will replace my 3TB Roamio with a new OTA 1TB Bolt, whose disk I will upgrade.

I plan to downgrade the Bolt software from 21.x to 20.7.4. After I do this, can I use the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO to upgrade the Bolt's internal 1TB disk to an external WD Red 10TB disk, using a direct-connect SATA cable?

Hopefully, someone has already done this while running 20.7.4. If so, is there a forum thread that describes how to do it?

Thanks again for your help,
Ron


----------



## jmbach

Ronald Pasqualini said:


> Hi JM,
> 
> Thanks very much for your reply. I really appreciate it.
> 
> To be honest, I didn't expect that a Roamio disk would work in a Bolt. Therefore, I will replace my 3TB Roamio with a new OTA 1TB Bolt, whose disk I will upgrade.
> 
> I plan to downgrade the Bolt software from 21.x to 20.7.4. After I do this, can I use the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO to upgrade the Bolt's internal 1TB disk to an external WD Red 10TB disk, using a direct-connect SATA cable?
> 
> Hopefully, someone has already done this while running 20.7.4. If so, is there a forum thread that describes how to do it?
> 
> Thanks again for your help,
> Ron


It is the same procedure for either TiVo OS, just start with a working ToVo OS image 3 TB or smaller.


----------



## Ronald Pasqualini

jmbach said:


> It is the same procedure for either TiVo OS, just start with a working ToVo OS image 3 TB or smaller.


Hi JM,

I sent my last post because I wanted to make absolutely sure that MFSTools 3.3 will support a 10TB WD Red disk directly connected to a Bolt running 20.7.4.

In the past, after several unsuccessful tries, I discovered that MFSR would not support an 8TB disk running under 21.x on a Bolt, but it would support an 8TB disk running under 20.7.4 on a Bolt. Since I much prefer to use 20.7.4 (all my tivos run it), I am a happy camper!

Thanks again!
-Ron


----------



## Ronald Pasqualini

jmbach said:


> It is the same procedure for either TiVo OS, just start with a working ToVo OS image 3 TB or smaller.


Hi JM,

As you know, the procedure for upgrading a new Bolt disk from 1TB to 10TB (without preserving any Bolt recordings) is slightly different from the procedure that I previously summarized for upgrading an existing 3TB Roamio disk to 10TB (including preserving the Roamio recordings).

Thus I believe that the new procedure for upgrading a new 1TB Bolt disk to a new 10TB Bolt disk would be as follows:

1) Connect my new 1TB Bolt to the Tivo service and get my All-In service key (Lifetime Service key) installed into internal flash memory.

Make sure that the Bolt is working perfectly before proceeding with the next step.

2) Downgrade the Bolt software from 21.x to 20.7.4

Make sure that the Bolt is working perfectly before proceeding with the next step.

3) Download the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO and burn it to a CD (or DVD)

4) Put my existing 1TB Bolt disk and my new 10TB disk into an external SATA dock

5) Boot my computer from the MFSTools 3.3 CD

6) Since my Tivo disk is 1TB, and I want to increase the disk capacity to 10TB, I need to copy (not clone) the 1TB disk to the new 10TB disk using MFSTools. (This copy actually creates a 4TB image on the 10TB disk).

7) Put the 10TB disk back into the Bolt and make sure that it boots up properly, and that it successfully connects to the Tivo service.

8) Remove the 10TB disk from the Bolt and put it back into the SATA dock

9) Run the mfsadd -xm 2000 /dev/sdY command on the 10TB disk.

10) Run the mfsaddfix /dev/sdY command on the 10TB disk

11) Since steps 9 & 10 combined add 2TB of disk capacity, I can run them two more times to add a total of 6TB to the original 4TB of disk capacity (4+2+2+2=10TB)

12) To be on the safe side, run Kickstart 58

I also need to make sure that my dual SATA dock will handle 10TB disks.

Finally, I have 3 questions:

1) Is the above procedure correct?

2) Where can I get the latest copy of MFSTools 3.3?

3) Does a downloadable ISO image for MFSTools 3.3 exist for Windows, or will I have to create one.

Thanks again for your help,
Ron


----------



## jmbach

Ronald Pasqualini said:


> Hi JM,
> 
> As you know, the procedure for upgrading a new Bolt disk from 1TB to 10TB (without preserving any Bolt recordings) is slightly different from the procedure that I previously summarized for upgrading an existing 3TB Roamio disk to 10TB (including preserving the Roamio recordings).
> 
> Thus I believe that the new procedure for upgrading a new 1TB Bolt disk to a new 10TB Bolt disk would be as follows:
> 
> 1) Connect my new 1TB Bolt to the Tivo service and get my All-In service key (Lifetime Service key) installed into internal flash memory.
> 
> Make sure that the Bolt is working perfectly before proceeding with the next step.
> 
> 2) Downgrade the Bolt software from 21.x to 20.7.4
> 
> Make sure that the Bolt is working perfectly before proceeding with the next step.
> 
> 3) Download the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO and burn it to a CD (or DVD)
> 
> 4) Put my existing 1TB Bolt disk and my new 10TB disk into an external SATA dock
> 
> 5) Boot my computer from the MFSTools 3.3 CD
> 
> 6) Since my Tivo disk is 1TB, and I want to increase the disk capacity to 10TB, I need to copy (not clone) the 1TB disk to the new 10TB disk using MFSTools. (This copy actually creates a 4TB image on the 10TB disk).
> 
> 7) Put the 10TB disk back into the Bolt and make sure that it boots up properly, and that it successfully connects to the Tivo service.
> 
> 8) Remove the 10TB disk from the Bolt and put it back into the SATA dock
> 
> 9) Run the mfsadd -xm 2000 /dev/sdY command on the 10TB disk.
> 
> 10) Run the mfsaddfix /dev/sdY command on the 10TB disk
> 
> 11) Since steps 9 & 10 combined add 2TB of disk capacity, I can run them two more times to add a total of 6TB to the original 4TB of disk capacity (4+2+2+2=10TB)
> 
> 12) To be on the safe side, run Kickstart 58
> 
> I also need to make sure that my dual SATA dock will handle 10TB disks.
> 
> Finally, I have 3 questions:
> 
> 1) Is the above procedure correct?
> 
> 2) Where can I get the latest copy of MFSTools 3.3?
> 
> 3) Does a downloadable ISO image for MFSTools 3.3 exist for Windows, or will I have to create one.
> 
> Thanks again for your help,
> Ron


1) The only difference is the copy command but even if you used the copy command to preserve the recordings, it would not make any difference in the end. Both have to start with a working TiVo drive.

2) Look at post 8 in the MFSTools 3.2 thread to get to the ISO.

3) see 2.


----------



## jlin

I have a 6TB Roamio that keeps on running out of space. I have a shucked WD 10TB that I desperately want to use. Does anyone know of an easy way to upgrade without having to manually copy the shows between anther Tivo and not having to re-pair the CableCard that has been working flawlessly (I don't want Frontier's FIOS people to redo it).

Any info much appreciated!


----------



## jmbach

jlin said:


> I have a 6TB Roamio that keeps on running out of space. I have a shucked WD 10TB that I desperately want to use. Does anyone know of an easy way to upgrade without having to manually copy the shows between anther Tivo and not having to re-pair the CableCard that has been working flawlessly (I don't want Frontier's FIOS people to redo it).
> 
> Any info much appreciated!


Have you read the second post of this thread?


----------



## jlin

Yep, just read it.

How many hours will I lose the use of the Tivo to record the shows during the duplicating and modifying process?


----------



## ggieseke

jlin said:


> How many hours will I lose the use of the Tivo to record the shows during the duplicating and modifying process?


I'd guess 10-12 hours.


----------



## jlin

I was able to copy my entire 6TB (which I used for 2 years) to a 10TB shucked from the current Bestbuy sale.

I was at 88% at 6TB. Now it's 54% used for 10TB

I have 1604 total hours for HD recordings (more than 1603 from the picture from OP).

Thanks all for your help! This is amazing!


----------



## krkaufman

jlin said:


> a 10TB shucked from the current Bestbuy sale.


This sale?

*WD - Easystore 10TB External USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Black** $200 *(was $250)


----------



## jlin

Yes.. it was briefly at $159 on Friday and Saturday..now it's $199

Bestbuy's ebay store is still at $159
WD - Easystore 10TB External USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Black 718037864624 | eBay


----------



## krkaufman

jlin said:


> Yes.. it was briefly at $159 on Friday and Saturday..now it's $199
> 
> Bestbuy's ebay store is still at $159
> WD - Easystore 10TB External USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Black 718037864624 | eBay


Ah, ok! I feel much better about those savings, sufficiently so that I pulled the trigger. Thanks for the info~!


----------



## xhale

I cloned (not copy) a 3TB Roamio drive to 10TB (missed read the instructions copy not clone < 4TB). The drive appears to be working but recording capacity is 1515 not 1603 HD hours. Do I need to zero the drive and start over to acheive max HD hours? TIA


----------



## jmbach

xhale said:


> I cloned (not copy) a 3TB Roamio drive to 10TB (missed read the instructions copy not clone < 4TB). The drive appears to be working but recording capacity is 1515 not 1603 HD hours. Do I need to zero the drive and start over to acheive max HD hours? TIA


Yes you will. You can add up to 6 TB of recording space with this method. So 3 TB + 6 TB will give you 9 TB and not 10 TB.


----------



## VeloceDesign

Thanks for the great instructions @jmbach!

I shucked a WD EasyStore 10TB and it contained a white label WD100EMAZ. I used MFSTools to copy the original 1TB drive to the new drive. This was quick as there were few recordings on the original drive. Ran mfsadd and mfsaddfix three times and achieved 1605 HD / 11067 SD hours.

Since the drive is new, I decided I wanted to start with a clean drive. I ran a C&DE which caused me to loose the expanded drive size. Now Im going to put the original drive back in, run a C&DE and start the process over but why would a C&DE mess up the expanded drive?


----------



## jmbach

VeloceDesign said:


> Thanks for the great instructions @jmbach!
> 
> I shucked a WD EasyStore 10TB and it contained a white label WD100EMAZ. I used MFSTools to copy the original 1TB drive to the new drive. This was quick as there were few recordings on the original drive. Ran mfsadd and mfsaddfix three times and achieved 1605 HD / 11067 SD hours.
> 
> Since the drive is new, I decided I wanted to start with a clean drive. I ran a C&DE which caused me to loose the expanded drive size. Now Im going to put the original drive back in, run a C&DE and start the process over but why would a C&DE mess up the expanded drive?


A clear and delete everything resets the drive to its original state. In Roamio and Bolts it means a reformat of the drive.


----------



## BitbyBlit

Newegg has a 10 TB hard drive for $160 with the promo code EMCTETA22. The offer is for today (9/5) only.


----------



## caroth

I upgraded from a 3TB drive to 6TB following the instructions in this thread. Initially the service connection worked, but then I started getting an S03 error. Another thread stated to delete guide data and to do list. When I did that, it hung (I left it running 18 hours on the "please wait, this will take about an hour" message). When I tried KS58, it gave me a software upgrade message (what KS56 is supposed to be doing) and yes, I am 100% sure I did KS58 (I did it twice). Did the KS57 and now I'm in a GSOD reboot loop. I assume that at this point, I will go through the process again off my original 3TB drive. Anything I need to do differently? I'm thinking about cloning the 3TB drive to another 3TB drive, booting off that and clearing guide data & to do list and thumb ratings & suggestions before copying it over to the 6TB drive and expanding. Any other thoughts/suggestions?


----------



## jmbach

KS 57 on my Roamios or Bolts always seem to put them in a green screen boot loop. KS 58 seems like it tries to correct the MFS system and structure. No know for sure exactly what it does, but it does correct many issues. 

To get your drive working again, use mfsck and have it mark the MFS good. Then let it boot up. If it boots, run a KS 58 again and see if your connection errors clear up. If it still hangs, then I would do as you say and clone the drive to another drive. I would run a KS 58 on the drive and then try the copy process. I am not sure you really need to clear guide data, todo list, etc but just try to let the TiVo clean itself up.


----------



## caroth

jmbach said:


> KS 57 on my Roamios or Bolts always seem to put them in a green screen boot loop. KS 58 seems like it tries to correct the MFS system and structure. No know for sure exactly what it does, but it does correct many issues.
> 
> To get your drive working again, use mfsck and have it mark the MFS good. Then let it boot up. If it boots, run a KS 58 again and see if your connection errors clear up. If it still hangs, then I would do as you say and clone the drive to another drive. I would run a KS 58 on the drive and then try the copy process. I am not sure you really need to clear guide data, todo list, etc but just try to let the TiVo clean itself up.


Thanks for your feedback.

Do you know if KS 58 still does MFS checking, etc. despite it stating that it's doing a software upgrade? I have a Tivo Roamio Pro and have tried KS 58 several times with the same result (acting like it's upgrading the Tivo software). If not, I wonder if I should still bother upgrading or should just replace the stock 3TB drive (which is slowly going bad, shows freezing, etc. and the copy process show some errors reading some sectors) with another 3TB drive if my 6TB won't be stable if I can't run KS 58.

I found this article where someone with a different model (a Premiere) had the same KS 58 doing software update instead of MFS checking: Kickstart 58 doesn't work right?


----------



## jmbach

caroth said:


> Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> Do you know if KS 58 still does MFS checking, etc. despite it stating that it's doing a software upgrade? I have a Tivo Roamio Pro and have tried KS 58 several times with the same result (acting like it's upgrading the Tivo software). If not, I wonder if I should still bother upgrading or should just replace the stock 3TB drive (which is slowly going bad, shows freezing, etc. and the copy process show some errors reading some sectors) with another 3TB drive if my 6TB won't be stable if I can't run KS 58.
> 
> I found this article where someone with a different model (a Premiere) had the same KS 58 doing software update instead of MFS checking: Kickstart 58 doesn't work right?


In theory it is supposed to do both, check/update the MFS OS and check/cleanup the MFS.


----------



## caroth

Since the original 3TB drive had some errors when copying (and the reason I was replacing it to begin with was that videos would freeze for a second, etc. which indicated to me, based on past Tivo experiences, that the drive was slowly starting to go South and should be replaced) and I was worried about it completely failing while I was playing around with it, I decided to copy it to a 3TB spare drive and then copy from that 3TB spare drive to the 6TB drive. If something went wrong, I would simply use the 3TB spare drive to copy from again and preserve the original drive. 

I did an MFSCOPY to the spare drive, then another MFSCOPY from it to the 6TB drive. When I booted it up, I got the message that Tivo had run out of guide data (it's been over two weeks since I first started this upgrade project). Connecting to the Tivo service failed with an error that guide data could not be updated. Then I noticed that all recordings were gone as well, so back to square one.

My new plan is to DDRESCUE copy the original 3TB drive to the spare 3TB drive and then MFSCOPY from that drive to the 6TB drive.

I've done several hard drive upgrades previously on Series 2, 3 and 4 and never had this much trouble. 

I'm just hoping that once I get the 6TB up and running again that the guide data updating issue won't come back after two weeks like it did the first time.

Please let me know if you think there is a better way for me to do what I'm trying to do here. Otherwise, I'll report back once I go through the above plan and again a few weeks after once I know whether or not the guide data update issue comes back.


----------



## jmbach

caroth said:


> Since the original 3TB drive had some errors when copying (and the reason I was replacing it to begin with was that videos would freeze for a second, etc. which indicated to me, based on past Tivo experiences, that the drive was slowly starting to go South and should be replaced) and I was worried about it completely failing while I was playing around with it, I decided to copy it to a 3TB spare drive and then copy from that 3TB spare drive to the 6TB drive. If something went wrong, I would simply use the 3TB spare drive to copy from again and preserve the original drive.
> 
> I did an MFSCOPY to the spare drive, then another MFSCOPY from it to the 6TB drive. When I booted it up, I got the message that Tivo had run out of guide data (it's been over two weeks since I first started this upgrade project). Connecting to the Tivo service failed with an error that guide data could not be updated. Then I noticed that all recordings were gone as well, so back to square one.
> 
> My new plan is to DDRESCUE copy the original 3TB drive to the spare 3TB drive and then MFSCOPY from that drive to the 6TB drive.
> 
> I've done several hard drive upgrades previously on Series 2, 3 and 4 and never had this much trouble.
> 
> I'm just hoping that once I get the 6TB up and running again that the guide data updating issue won't come back after two weeks like it did the first time.
> 
> Please let me know if you think there is a better way for me to do what I'm trying to do here. Otherwise, I'll report back once I go through the above plan and again a few weeks after once I know whether or not the guide data update issue comes back.


What mfscopy command line did you use for each copy. 3TB->3TB, 3TB->6TB.


----------



## caroth

jmbach said:


> What mfscopy command line did you use for each copy. 3TB->3TB, 3TB->6TB.


The one from the original post on this thread: *mfscopy -am 2000 /dev/sda /dev/sdb*

I used the same when I did the original 3TB -> 6TB copy. That one had all the recordings and everything seemed to work fine (connected to Tivo and everything) until about 2 weeks later when I got the message that I was almost out of guide data and the connections to the Tivo service starting giving the S03 error.

One thing I thought was odd on the original copy is that if I understand all the posts correctly, the above command should take the data off the 3TB drive and make a 4TB partition on the 6TB drive. Then I should run the MFSADD command in the original post to add another 2TB partition. But when I did that, the command told me there was no more space to add and when I put the drive into the Tivo, it seemed to be using all 6TB of space (based on my original drive showing 90% full and the new drive showing 45% full).


----------



## jmbach

caroth said:


> The one from the original post on this thread: *mfscopy -am 2000 /dev/sda /dev/sdb*
> 
> I used the same when I did the original 3TB -> 6TB copy. That one had all the recordings and everything seemed to work fine (connected to Tivo and everything) until about 2 weeks later when I got the message that I was almost out of guide data and the connections to the Tivo service starting giving the S03 error.
> 
> One thing I thought was odd on the original copy is that if I understand all the posts correctly, the above command should take the data off the 3TB drive and make a 4TB partition on the 6TB drive. Then I should run the MFSADD command in the original post to add another 2TB partition. But when I did that, the command told me there was no more space to add and when I put the drive into the Tivo, it seemed to be using all 6TB of space (based on my original drive showing 90% full and the new drive showing 45% full).


Interesting. Something did not go well. When I get home from work, I'll send you a PM to see what happened.


----------



## jmbach

I do think cloning the bad drive to a good drive with ddrescue is a good idea using several passes. 

Would boot the clone in the TiVo and do a KS 58 almost immediately. That should check/update the MFS and MFS OS which should take care of everything that was a problem in critical areas. You might have some bad spots in recordings but everything else should be good. Then do several force connections with TiVo servers.

If all goes well, you should be able to copy that image to the 6TB drive. I recommend booting the copy in the TiVo before expanding it. Again, I recommend a KS 58 followed by a couple of connections to TiVo servers. If all goes well, then expand the drive.


----------



## MisterWho

I think I just successfully replaced my 3 TB drive with a 10 TB in my Roamio. After running all commands and reinstalling new drive, got over 1600 hrs capacity. Also connected to tivo service a few times. As last task, I am attempting KS 58 as suggested in this thread. After entering command (getting alternating green and amber lights after entering), the tivo comes up with "installing an update...this will take a few minutes." Is this correct? This screen has been up at least 30 minutes so far, how long should this process take to finish on a 10 TB drive? I have a bad habit of being quick to restart, etc. out of fear its not working. I want to be patient but also want to be sure it is doing what it is supposed to.

I will add, the original 3 TB drive was over 90% full with recordings and took around 12 hours to copy to the 10 TB. Is this an indication of how long the KS 58 should take?


----------



## jmbach

MisterWho said:


> I think I just successfully replaced my 3 TB drive with a 10 TB in my Roamio. After running all commands and reinstalling new drive, got over 1600 hrs capacity. Also connected to tivo service a few times. As last task, I am attempting KS 58 as suggested in this thread. After entering command (getting alternating green and amber lights after entering), the tivo comes up with "installing an update...this will take a few minutes." Is this correct? This screen has been up at least 30 minutes so far, how long should this process take to finish on a 10 TB drive? I have a bad habit of being quick to restart, etc. out of fear its not working. I want to be patient but also want to be sure it is doing what it is supposed to.
> 
> I will add, the original 3 TB drive was over 90% full with recordings and took around 12 hours to copy to the 10 TB. Is this an indication of how long the KS 58 should take?


It should take no more than 3 hours.


----------



## MisterWho

jmbach said:


> It should take no more than 3 hours.


Is it normal that it stays on the "installing an update..." screen the whole time?

Thanks you for all your assistance BTW.

edit: after 6 hours, I pulled plug to restart. It booted normally. After a few extra manual restarts through menu and couple successful connections to TiVo service should I be satisfied that all is well? What does it mean that KS 58 didn't work right?


----------



## jlin

Has anyone tried 12TB yet? I have a 10TB running in my Roamio.


----------



## jmbach

jlin said:


> Has anyone tried 12TB yet? I have a 10TB running in my Roamio.


It has been tried up to 14 TB. If the current partitions are oriented correctly, it will require manual manipulation of the APM to prep the drive. Post the output of mfsinfo -d of your 10 TB drive to see if it is possible.


----------



## jlin

So take out the 10TB drive into a PC and then mfsinfo -d ?
This was originally upgraded from 6TB

Anyway to do a fresh 12TB Roamio?

The 12TB is on sale at bestbuy currently for $179 !


----------



## jmbach

jlin said:


> So take out the 10TB drive into a PC and then mfsinfo -d ?
> This was originally upgraded from 6TB
> 
> Anyway to do a fresh 12TB Roamio?
> 
> The 12TB is on sale at bestbuy currently for $179 !


If you started with a 6TB, then you only have done 2 additional adds. You should have one more. So all you should need to do is clone the 10 TB to the 12 TB and do one more add sequence.


----------



## MisterWho

MisterWho said:


> Is it normal that it stays on the "installing an update..." screen the whole time?
> 
> Thanks you for all your assistance BTW.
> 
> edit: after 6 hours, I pulled plug to restart. It booted normally. After a few extra manual restarts through menu and couple successful connections to TiVo service should I be satisfied that all is well? What does it mean that KS 58 didn't work right?


Ok, I'm posting just as a data point and for any insight anyone may have.

I did the upgrade from a "roamio self-upgraded" 3 TB drive to a 10 TB drive (shucked from an WD Easystore external) using this thread. After reinstallation, it reported 1,603 hours as expected and all seemed fine, connections completed and unit restarted successfully when initiated from restart menus. Upon further use however, I found a few recordings that would not play and gave error along the lines of "does not exist, no signal when recording" (I forget exactly). Also, one of these recordings, when deleted, could not be permanently deleted from recently deleted folder. This set me down the path of the kickstart attempts. While the tivo reported the expected menu when entering KS 58 ("installing an update..."), it ran for over 12 hours before I pulled the plug. I then tried the clear program data command and it hung there for another several hours and when I pulled the plug, it only rebooted to this same screen. I then installed original upgraded 3 TB drive and attempted KS 58 which lasted over 6 hours before I pulled plug on it whereupon it reboot fine. I now wonder why my tivo does not complete the KS 58 while no one else seems to have the failures (once begun) I do. I do now think it could be because I initiated these KS codes after a menu restart and not a plug pull restart. Could this be the difference?

I want to think of what to do as after the previous hang at clearing program data, I redid the mfscopy and redid the 10 TB drive reinstalling it again with 1,603 hours shown. Now, I find the channel logos are gone from the guide (though they show on both connected minis) and curiously, I cannot create a one pass for Botched on E (when I checked one pass manager, this was hung at "updating" after touching the list order so I deleted it only to find it will not allow a one pass to be created now).

This 10 TB upgrade has been running since lunch yesterday (approx. 18 hours now) and I wonder if I should allow to run for a few days to see if any of this self-corrects or if a kickstart is necessary, how I can ensure my box successfully completes the kickstart routine.

Sorry for the wall of text but just throwing this out there in case...


----------



## LegoZ

jlin said:


> So take out the 10TB drive into a PC and then mfsinfo -d ?
> This was originally upgraded from 6TB
> 
> Anyway to do a fresh 12TB Roamio?
> 
> The 12TB is on sale at bestbuy currently for $179 !


Thanks for that! Just upgraded mine last night/this morning! My upgrade to 12TB - Roamio OTA


----------



## LegoZ

angra said:


> Just a little teaser
> View attachment 39756


This seemed to get largely missed, what is your setup? Single 14TB drive?


----------



## jmbach

LegoZ said:


> This seemed to get largely missed, what is your setup? Single 14TB drive?


Yes. He used a single 14 TB drive.


----------



## rtoledo

jmbach said:


> I think running KS 58 is a good idea. TiVo seems to have really revamped KS 58 allowing to correct a lot of things. Never had one boot loop with a KS 58. Now I always seem to get green screen boot loops with a KS 57. So I would stay away from that one.


since I have downloaded all your files , where do I get the k58 ? also do you have a donation tag ? thanks


----------



## jmbach

KS 58 refers to a kickstart code entered as the TiVo boots up. Essentially while the TiVo is booting up, you look for the yellow light to flash then press the pause button on the remote followed by the numbers 5 and 8. The yellow and green light will flash alternating if it was accepted. 

I support ggeseike and his efforts so you can go over to the MFSR thread and make a donation there.


----------



## rtoledo

jmbach said:


> KS 58 refers to a kickstart code entered as the TiVo boots up. Essentially while the TiVo is booting up, you look for the yellow light to flash then press the pause button on the remote followed by the numbers 5 and 8. The yellow and green light will flash alternating if it was accepted.
> 
> I support ggeseike and his efforts so you can go over to the MFSR thread and make a donation there.


thanks , did it. I placed a order for a 10TB , will do it this weekend and posts on it


----------



## cenright

MisterWho said:


> Ok, I'm posting just as a data point and for any insight anyone may have.
> 
> I did the upgrade from a "roamio self-upgraded" 3 TB drive to a 10 TB drive (shucked from an WD Easystore external) using this thread. After reinstallation, it reported 1,603 hours as expected and all seemed fine, connections completed and unit restarted successfully when initiated from restart menus. Upon further use however, I found a few recordings that would not play and gave error along the lines of "does not exist, no signal when recording" (I forget exactly). Also, one of these recordings, when deleted, could not be permanently deleted from recently deleted folder. This set me down the path of the kickstart attempts. While the tivo reported the expected menu when entering KS 58 ("installing an update..."), it ran for over 12 hours before I pulled the plug. I then tried the clear program data command and it hung there for another several hours and when I pulled the plug, it only rebooted to this same screen. I then installed original upgraded 3 TB drive and attempted KS 58 which lasted over 6 hours before I pulled plug on it whereupon it reboot fine. I now wonder why my tivo does not complete the KS 58 while no one else seems to have the failures (once begun) I do. I do now think it could be because I initiated these KS codes after a menu restart and not a plug pull restart. Could this be the difference?
> 
> I want to think of what to do as after the previous hang at clearing program data, I redid the mfscopy and redid the 10 TB drive reinstalling it again with 1,603 hours shown. Now, I find the channel logos are gone from the guide (though they show on both connected minis) and curiously, I cannot create a one pass for Botched on E (when I checked one pass manager, this was hung at "updating" after touching the list order so I deleted it only to find it will not allow a one pass to be created now).
> 
> This 10 TB upgrade has been running since lunch yesterday (approx. 18 hours now) and I wonder if I should allow to run for a few days to see if any of this self-corrects or if a kickstart is necessary, how I can ensure my box successfully completes the kickstart routine.
> 
> Sorry for the wall of text but just throwing this out there in case...


I have a similar experience on attempting an update from a bolt+ 3TB. I can't even run a successful kickstart 58 on the original drive. I tried the mfscopy described here to another drive multiple times - it won't boot up (GSOD / reboot loop) and won't do a kickstart 58 either. I was able to do a full copy dd_rescue style to another drive and it boots / seems to run fine, but kickstart 58 fails as well. Mine drive is also mostly full at around 85%.


----------



## jmbach

cenright said:


> I have a similar experience on attempting an update from a bolt+ 3TB. I can't even run a successful kickstart 58 on the original drive. I tried the mfscopy described here to another drive multiple times - it won't boot up (GSOD / reboot loop) and won't do a kickstart 58 either. I was able to do a full copy dd_rescue style to another drive and it boots / seems to run fine, but kickstart 58 fails as well. Mine drive is also mostly full at around 85%.


Are you on TE4 or TE3?


----------



## cenright

Still on TE3 - but original drive is getting real flaky. First try was using a shucked 10tb western digital white. Going to try the msfcopy per this thread to another older 5tb WD green and see if I can just get the 4tb result working there.


----------



## jmbach

cenright said:


> Still on TE3 - but original drive is getting real flaky. First try was using a shucked 10tb western digital white. Going to try the msfcopy per this thread to another older 5tb WD green and see if I can just get the 4tb result working there.


Would recommend using ddrescue with several passes to another drive to tray to make a decent workable copy.


----------



## jmbach

Just finished upgrading my 4TB Roamio to 12TB. This requires a few extra manual tweaks that currently are no tools to automate this. It completes a KS58 and has no issues loading data from the daily connection. This unit is on TE3.

It went from 75% full to 25% full.

Using this technique, we should be able to go up to a 16TB drive. If there is enough interest and if I have enough time, a tool could be created to help make this procedure more automated.


----------



## cenright

jmbach said:


> Would recommend using ddrescue with several passes to another drive to tray to make a decent workable copy.


Did that first based on your suggestion. Multiple passes still result in just 1 block transfer error. Boots up fine like before, but kickstart 58 hangs on software update screen. Trying the mfscopy of that rescue to a 5tb to see if it boots there. If that fails, can mfsadd just be done on a copied drive ? something like this:
-> dd_rescue from original 3tb to 5tb, 
-> mfsadd -xm 2000 /dev/sdY ( or what parmeters?)
-> mfsaddfix /dev/sdY

could that result in successful 5tb?


----------



## jmbach

cenright said:


> Did that first based on your suggestion. Multiple passes still result in just 1 block transfer error. Boots up fine like before, but kickstart 58 hangs on software update screen. Trying the mfscopy of that rescue to a 5tb to see if it boots there. If that fails, can mfsadd just be done on a copied drive ? something like this:
> -> dd_rescue from original 3tb to 5tb,
> -> mfsadd -xm 2000 /dev/sdY ( or what parmeters?)
> -> mfsaddfix /dev/sdY
> 
> could that result in successful 5tb?


You have to limit the mfscopy to the 5TB drive to 4TB image.

Yes the mfsadd/mfsaddfix will expand the 3TB image cloned to your 5TB drive to use the whole drive for recording.


----------



## BitbyBlit

Newegg has a 10 TB drive here for $160.


----------



## cenright

jmbach said:


> You have to limit the mfscopy to the 5TB drive to 4TB image.
> 
> Yes the mfsadd/mfsaddfix will expand the 3TB image cloned to your 5TB drive to use the whole drive for recording.


Thanks, ended up doing the mfsadd/mfsaddfix 3 times on the 8TB (which was a dd_rescue copy of original 3TB) - seems to have expanded to full 8TB and boots fine. fingers crossed....


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Just finished upgrading my 4TB Roamio to 12TB. This requires a few extra manual tweaks that currently are no tools to automate this. It completes a KS58 and has no issues loading data from the daily connection. This unit is on TE3.
> 
> It went from 75% full to 25% full.
> 
> Using this technique, we should be able to go up to a 16TB drive. If there is enough interest and if I have enough time, a tool could be created to help make this procedure more automated.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Just finished upgrading my 4TB Roamio to 12TB. This requires a few extra manual tweaks that currently are no tools to automate this. It completes a KS58 and has no issues loading data from the daily connection. This unit is on TE3.
> 
> It went from 75% full to 25% full.
> 
> Using this technique, we should be able to go up to a 16TB drive. If there is enough interest and if I have enough time, a tool could be created to help make this procedure more automated.


I'm interested, I ordered a 12TB. Right now I have two Tivos with 8TB drives installed, both on TE3. First is a Roamio Plus. I got to 8TB by cloning a 4TB with recordings in a cloning dock then doing 2 adds. So I am assuming for that one I am limited to 1 more add, 10TB drive max? Second is a Basic Roamio, that one I stared fresh I believe, 8TB created with MFSR. So that one I could go to 12TB doing 3 adds? Can I clone in a dock (assuming the dock can handle a 12TB), then just do 3 adds? I do want to keep recordings and settings on both 8TB Tivos.

I have a 10TB I may put in the "Plus", that one I assume just clone and do the last available add? No way to use the 12TB in that one assuming I want to keep all the recordings? Am happy these are Roamios, at least can swap drives back and forth without losing anything/everything


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> I'm interested, I ordered a 12TB. Right now I have two Tivos with 8TB drives installed, both on TE3. First is a Roamio Plus. I got to 8TB by cloning a 4TB with recordings in a cloning dock then doing 2 adds. So I am assuming for that one I am limited to 1 more add, 10TB drive max? Second is a Basic Roamio, that one I stared fresh I believe, 8TB created with MFSR. So that one I could go to 12TB doing 3 adds? Can I clone in a dock (assuming the dock can handle a 12TB), then just do 3 adds? I do want to keep recordings and settings on both 8TB Tivos.
> 
> I have a 10TB I may put in the "Plus", that one I assume just clone and do the last available add? No way to use the 12TB in that one assuming I want to keep all the recordings? Am happy these are Roamios, at least can swap drives back and forth without losing anything/everything


So for the Roamio plus, I need to see the partition layout to see if we can get to 12 TB easily. Run mfsinfo -d on the drive which will show us the partition layout. If it is not, we will need to copy the drive manually and not clone it to get the partitions in the right ordered.

The other one created with MFSR can easily be updated to 12 TB. In the last update to mfsadd there was a modification to allow for partitions to be coalesced at a later date. This would allow that drive to eventually be expanded up to 20 TB. I am going to modify the current instructions to reflect that.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> So for the Roamio plus, I need to see the partition layout to see if we can get to 12 TB easily. Run mfsinfo -d on the drive which will show us the partition layout. If it is not, we will need to copy the drive manually and not clone it to get the partitions in the right ordered.
> 
> The other one created with MFSR can easily be updated to 12 TB. In the last update to mfsadd there was a modification to allow for partitions to be coalesced at a later date. This would allow that drive to eventually be expanded up to 20 TB. I am going to modify the current instructions to reflect that.


Thanks. The 12TB has arrived. I will check the updated/current instructions. Might take awhile, have to find time when I can remove the drives and copy or clone. 8TB takes quite awhile even in a dock, seems to be twice as long in a computer.

An interesting note, the 12TB is one of those white label reds from an Easystore. Seems there are two models. One actually seems to be a 14TB drive that they firmware modified so you can only use 12TB. That is the one I got, very interesting.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Thanks. The 12TB has arrived. I will check the updated/current instructions. Might take awhile, have to find time when I can remove the drives and copy or clone. 8TB takes quite awhile even in a dock, seems to be twice as long in a computer.
> 
> An interesting note, the 12TB is one of those white label reds from an Easystore. Seems there are two models. One actually seems to be a 14TB drive that they firmware modified so you can only use 12TB. That is the one I got, very interesting.


Interesting, how are they differentiated


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Interesting, how are they differentiated


You can tell by the R/N number. For this model # (WD120EMFZ), the R/N # is US7SAP140. The 140 part is what supposedly indicates the size of the drive. Other WD 12TB drives have 120. And an actual sold as 14TB WD has 140. There is some discussion on this at reddit.


----------



## tommage1

There was also some speculation that the EMFZ model might be SMR. However WD says their SMR type drives support TRIM. And neither of the white label 12TBs from the easystores support trim so can assume PMR, maybe? WD will not tell consumers directly if a drive is SMR or PMR. However one person wrote to them saying they wanted to use the trim function on an EMFZ drive and how to do it. WD wrote back saying the EMFZ is not an SMR drive so cannot use trim. I also found this very interesting, if ALL WD SMR drives support trim then could test any WD drive to see if it is SMR, including those 2.5" drives (a good amount of Tivo Bolt users were using certain model WD 2.5" drives to upgrade Bolts.) I wonder if the same is true with Seagate SMR drives, they support trim? This could be a great way to test drives for PMR or SMR..............

From WD website

"*TRIM Command Support for WD External Drives*

WD external SSD drives and WD external HDD drives that have *SMR * (Shingled Magnetic Recording) drive inside, offer *TRIM* command support which is enabled by default in Windows 7 and above, designed to maintain the performance of SSD or HDD at an optimal level over the lifetime of the drive."


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> So for the Roamio plus, I need to see the partition layout to see if we can get to 12 TB easily. Run mfsinfo -d on the drive which will show us the partition layout. If it is not, we will need to copy the drive manually and not clone it to get the partitions in the right ordered.


I will check that once I start work on the upgrades. I can say this, the Roamio Plus was upgraded to 8TB in Jan 2019 using MFST 3.3. I see now there is an MFST 3.32, May 2019? Is that the latest version with the newer mfsadd? If so I'm guessing might not be able to do the clone to the 12TB since the 8TB was created with 3.3 not 3.32 and I already did 2 adds? I may just use the 10TB in the Roamio Plus and use the 12TB in the 8TB basic Roamio which was created fresh with MFSR. Would use MFST 3.32 which would allow up to 20TB in the future?


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> You can tell by the R/N number. For this model # (WD120EMFZ), the R/N # is US7SAP140. The 140 part is what supposedly indicates the size of the drive. Other WD 12TB drives have 120. And an actual sold as 14TB WD has 140. There is some discussion on this at reddit.


Interesting. Wonder if they just deactivated one of the drive heads. Or it could be that quality control is so bad that they need 2 Tb of space to remap all the bad spots on the other platters to give you that 12 TB of space. LOL


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> I will check that once I start work on the upgrades. I can say this, the Roamio Plus was upgraded to 8TB in Jan 2019 using MFST 3.3. I see now there is an MFST 3.32, May 2019? Is that the latest version with the newer mfsadd? If so I'm guessing might not be able to do the clone to the 12TB since the 8TB was created with 3.3 not 3.32 and I already did 2 adds? I may just use the 10TB in the Roamio Plus and use the 12TB in the 8TB basic Roamio which was created fresh with MFSR. Would use MFST 3.32 which would allow up to 20TB in the future?


Yes, the latest version has a new switch in mfsadd that forces the partition ordering to be in the correct ordering for future coalescing. On your 8 TB you likely have one pair of partitions in the correct order and another in reverse order. If that is the case, you could clone the drive with your dock, then we would have to manually swap the one pair of partitions about 2 TB in size total. So it might not be too bad.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Interesting. Wonder if they just deactivated one of the drive heads. Or it could be that quality control is so bad that they need 2 Tb of space to remap all the bad spots on the other platters to give you that 12 TB of space. LOL


Some people were speculating the same thing, remapping bad sectors. Some weighed the drives, the WD120EMFZ weighs more than the other white label 12TB which could be an extra platter. Also may confirm that the WD120EMFZ is indeed PMR, if the other was PMR and the WD120EMFZ was SMR the SMR would probably weigh LESS as it would have less platters?


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Yes, the latest version has a new switch in mfsadd that forces the partition ordering to be in the correct ordering for future coalescing. On your 8 TB you likely have one pair of partitions in the correct order and another in reverse order. If that is the case, you could clone the drive with your dock, then we would have to manually swap the one pair of partitions about 2 TB in size total. So it might not be too bad.


I am cloning the Roamio Plus 8TB to the 10TB in the dock now. Will test the 10TB when it is done before doing the add. When I do do the add, can I use 3.32 or do I need to use 3.3 since the drive was created with 3.3? Once I have the 10 working maybe I will mess with the 8 to 12 thing for fun, can take my time since I will have the 10 in there for use in the mean time.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> I am cloning the Roamio Plus 8TB to the 10TB in the dock now. Will test the 10TB when it is done before doing the add. When I do do the add, can I use 3.32 or do I need to use 3.3 since the drive was created with 3.3? Once I have the 10 working maybe I will mess with the 8 to 12 thing for fun, can take my time since I will have the 10 in there for use in the mean time.


So the way in which mfsadd adds a pair of partitions depends on the space available. If there is more space than 2 TB available on the drive and you limit the add to 2 TB, it will put the 2 TB media partition in front of the app partition. If there is less space, then it puts the app partition first and assigns the rest of the space to the media partition. The order is only important to coalesce partitions. JMFS coalesced partitions 15 and 16 into 15. This is because the Premiere OS limits the internal drive to 15 partitions. Roamio and later models limit it to 14 partitions. So to add space we use the empty partitions on those models to add space. (Partitions 2 through 7 inclusive which are 6 slots total) By coalescing added partitions, each of those slots can hold 2 TB of recording space for a total of 12 TB of added space.

The new version of mfsadd has a switch to force mfsadd to always put the added partitions in the correct order.


----------



## tommage1

Ok, the Roamio Plus 8TB to 10TB clone is complete. Took about 14 hours in a cloning dock. I have the 10TB in the Roamio now, will run it a few days to make sure it is fine. I also checked the 8TB, seems to be in perfect health so the clone should be good. I have not done the add to get the 10TB to it's full capacity yet. I assume these would be the commands? Remember I created the 8TB initially by cloning a nearly full 4TB in a dock, then used MFST 3.3 (not 3.32, it did not exist yet) to do two adds.

mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY
mfsaddfix /dev/sdY
Does not matter if I boot MFST 3.3 or MFST 3.32? I did do a MFSINFO on the 8TB. Picture below. I have pictures of the zone maps too if needed.

Now as for possibly using the 12TB in the Roamio Plus, what would I need to do? Can you tell from the picture? I have the 8TB set aside as a backup for now. Once I have verified the 10TB is working fine I may try the 12TB. You mentioned I might be able to clone the 8TB to the 12TB then manually move partitions around? Then do the adds to get it to 12TB? The 8TB is nearly full so I want to make sure the 10TB is working well before I do anything risky to the 8TB. Glad this is not a Bolt project........

One more thing, when I ran fdisk -l to find the drive letter I got PAGES of 500MB things. Have never seen that before, is that normal for a drive expanded with MFST 3.3?


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Ok, the Roamio Plus 8TB to 10TB clone is complete. Took about 14 hours in a cloning dock. I have the 10TB in the Roamio now, will run it a few days to make sure it is fine. I also checked the 8TB, seems to be in perfect health so the clone should be good. I have not done the add to get the 10TB to it's full capacity yet. I assume these would be the commands? Remember I created the 8TB initially by cloning a nearly full 4TB in a dock, then used MFST 3.3 (not 3.32, it did not exist yet) to do two adds.
> 
> mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY
> mfsaddfix /dev/sdY
> Does not matter if I boot MFST 3.3 or MFST 3.32? I did do a MFSINFO on the 8TB. Picture below. I have pictures of the zone maps too if needed.
> 
> Now as for possibly using the 12TB in the Roamio Plus, what would I need to do? Can you tell from the picture? I have the 8TB set aside as a backup for now. Once I have verified the 10TB is working fine I may try the 12TB. You mentioned I might be able to clone the 8TB to the 12TB then manually move partitions around? Then do the adds to get it to 12TB? The 8TB is nearly full so I want to make sure the 10TB is working well before I do anything risky to the 8TB. Glad this is not a Bolt project........
> 
> One more thing, when I ran fdisk -l to find the drive letter I got PAGES of 500MB things. Have never seen that before, is that normal for a drive expanded with MFST 3.3?


The new commands are only in the latest version of MFSTools. Run mfsinfo -d on the drive and it will show partition data as well. That is what I need to see for the 12 TB upgrade.

The new version of Linux on the ISO creates all those little partitions. Use lsblk -o name,size to see the connected drives.


----------



## jeffsinsfo

I wonder if anyone can help steer me in the right direction. I am trying to use the MFSTools ISO on a flash drive to clone/expand my original 3TB Roamio drive to a WD Red 6TB. The boot process starts (I see a flash screen where I select the MFS tools, though I'm not sure why it's listed twice -- once with FailSafe at the beginning) but ultimately gives an error message "Failed to find MBR device." If I let the computer sit, it seems to go through a few different attempts to reboot though most of what is on the screen doesn't seem significant to me. My computer eventually restarts.

I saw on another thread here that someone else mentioned having this problem with the ISO file and used the rar file instead, but I have no clue how to do that.


----------



## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> I wonder if anyone can help steer me in the right direction. I am trying to use the MFSTools ISO on a flash drive to clone/expand my original 3TB Roamio drive to a WD Red 6TB. The boot process starts (I see a flash screen where I select the MFS tools, though I'm not sure why it's listed twice -- once with FailSafe at the beginning) but ultimately gives an error message "Failed to find MBR device." If I let the computer sit, it seems to go through a few different attempts to reboot though most of what is on the screen doesn't seem significant to me. My computer eventually restarts.
> 
> I saw on another thread here that someone else mentioned having this problem with the ISO file and used the rar file instead, but I have no clue how to do that.


Have you read the full post that you found the ISO in?


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> The new commands are only in the latest version of MFSTools. Run mfsinfo -d on the drive and it will show partition data as well. That is what I need to see for the 12 TB upgrade.
> 
> The new version of Linux on the ISO creates all those little partitions. Use lsblk -o name,size to see the connected drives.


I see, thought I had 3.32 on the boot CD, guess not, there was no -d available. Anyway here is the new pic of the 8TB. Before trying anything with the 8 to 12 I do want to get the 10TB fully installed. The 10 without the extra 2TB added seems to be fine in the Roamio Plus. The 10 is a dock created clone of the 8 in the picture. So to get the extra 2TB on the 10 these are the commands?

mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY
mfsaddfix /dev/sdY

And it does not matter if I boot from MFST 3.3 or 3.32?

Once I have the full capacity 10 working for a few days can start considering the 8 to 12 possibility.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> I see, thought I had 3.32 on the boot CD, guess not, there was no -d available. Anyway here is the new pic of the 8TB. Before trying anything with the 8 to 12 I do want to get the 10TB fully installed. The 10 without the extra 2TB added seems to be fine in the Roamio Plus. The 10 is a dock created clone of the 8 in the picture. So to get the extra 2TB on the 10 these are the commands?
> 
> mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY
> mfsaddfix /dev/sdY
> 
> And it does not matter if I boot from MFST 3.3 or 3.32?
> 
> Once I have the full capacity 10 working for a few days can start considering the 8 to 12 possibility.
> 
> View attachment 44905


So your MFS app/media regions are physically flipped on the drive in relation to how they appear in the MFS header and will have to be swapped. So what we can do is clone the 8 TB to the 12 TB. Then use dd to copy the two partitions in question to the same area of the drive while swapping the physical locations to put them in the correct order. Once that is done, make the appropriate changes in the APM to reflect the change. Boot the drive to make sure it works and then coalesce.

You would need to boot from 3.32 to use the -c switch in mfsadd.

For everybody's edification, the rule for coalescing partitions is that the MFS partitions on the drive have to physically next to each other and physically in the same order as they appear in the MFS header.


----------



## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> Have you read the full post that you found the ISO in?


Yes, I have -- multiple times. I'm obviously missing or not understanding something. I must confess that the last time I upgraded a TiVo was many moons ago, using InstantCake for a Series 2. I don't remember what that entailed, but my memory is that it required less technical knowledge than this. Maybe this process is just beyond my skill level.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> So your MFS app/media regions are physically flipped on the drive in relation to how they appear in the MFS header and will have to be swapped. So what we can do is clone the 8 TB to the 12 TB. Then use dd to copy the two partitions in question to the same area of the drive while swapping the physical locations to put them in the correct order. Once that is done, make the appropriate changes in the APM to reflect the change. Boot the drive to make sure it works and then coalesce.


So how about the 10 that is currently in there? Since it's a clone of the 8 I'm assuming the regions are flipped also. But if I just want to use the 10 can I do the remaining add, 2 have been done? Or will I run into problems in the future if I don't do any swaps/changes? I assume I would be limited to 10TB with that scenario since what was the maximum of 3 adds would be done, started with a 4TB.


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## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> So how about the 10 that is currently in there? Since it's a clone of the 8 I'm assuming the regions are flipped also. But if I just want to use the 10 can I do the remaining add, 2 have been done? Or will I run into problems in the future if I don't do any swaps/changes? I assume I would be limited to 10TB with that scenario since what was the maximum of 3 adds would be done, started with a 4TB.


We can flop the partitions on the 10 TB. If you already started recording on it then we will have to save the current partitions on another drive and then copy them back in the right order. If you have not recorded anything, then we can use the 8 TB and just copy them over in the correct order.


----------



## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> Yes, I have -- multiple times. I'm obviously missing or not understanding something. I must confess that the last time I upgraded a TiVo was many moons ago, using InstantCake for a Series 2. I don't remember what that entailed, but my memory is that it required less technical knowledge than this. Maybe this process is just beyond my skill level.





jmbach said:


> ....
> 
> MFSTools 3.32-devel USB/HD
> RAW format
> md5 hash for uncompressed raw file: B9F1CBFBCDCB95FED2B42D4CC14EBCE7
> 
> Use a program like Etcher from Balena to write the file. It is free, cross platformed, and open sourced.
> 
> Otherwise use dd in Linux or something like HDD Raw Copy Tool in Windows to copy the uncompressed file to a USB or hard drive.
> 
> ....


Uncompress it to the RAW format then copy it to the USB drive using one of the methods outlined.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> We can flop the partitions on the 10 TB. If you already started recording on it then we will have to save the current partitions on another drive and then copy them back in the right order. If you have not recorded anything, then we can use the 8 TB and just copy them over in the correct order.


That would take a VERY long time. For fun I booted up MFST 3.3 (not 3.32). Ran the add (without the "c" of course) and the fix. To the 10TB I had cloned from the 8TB (which had originally been created from a 4TB with 2 adds). And it SEEMS to have worked. I went from 1281 HD hours to 1603. My recordings and settings seem ok though I have thousands so will see over time. After putting the expanded 10 in I connected to the Tivo service, let it connect successfully then restarted once more. I guess time will tell, you might know more. Here is a mfsinfo pic of the expanded 10TB.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> That would take a VERY long time. For fun I booted up MFST 3.3 (not 3.32). Ran the add (without the "c" of course) and the fix. To the 10TB I had cloned from the 8TB (which had originally been created from a 4TB with 2 adds). And it SEEMS to have worked. I went from 1281 HD hours to 1603. My recordings and settings seem ok though I have thousands so will see over time. After putting the expanded 10 in I connected to the Tivo service, let it connect successfully then restarted once more. I guess time will tell, you might know more. Here is a mfsinfo pic of the expanded 10TB.


It will work just fine. The amount of space that is left on the 10 TB is less than the amount of space you specified in the command line, mfsadd added the pair of partitions in the right order to coalesce later as a result.

So if you clone the 10TB to a larger drive, we will have to manually copy the partition pair that is out of order to the new drive so that we can coalesce and allow for more expansion.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> It will work just fine. The amount of space that is left on the 10 TB is less than the amount of space you specified in the command line, mfsadd added the pair of partitions in the right order to coalesce later as a result.
> 
> So if you clone the 10TB to a larger drive, we will have to manually copy the partition pair that is out of order to the new drive so that we can coalesce and allow for more expansion.


Sounds good  This should do for awhile at least, I think I will put the 12TB in the Roamio basic. The space specified on the command list, I was unsure what to use. The current instructions say 2040 I believe. Someone who did it quite awhile back said they used 2000. And I had a printout of the original instructions back in January, it said 2090. For this last add I used the 2090 I think. When I did the first upgrade to the 8TB back (2 adds) in January I don't remember what I used, 2090 or 2000.


----------



## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> Uncompress it to the RAW format then copy it to the USB drive using one of the methods outlined.


I had done that previously and didn't get very far. A script would start running to then enter an endless loop. I tried again this morning and paid closer attention to the last line in the loop and it appears that my USB mouse was the culprit. I disconnected the mouse and, after letting the boot process run longer than I anticipated it would take (leading me to worry that something was still wrong), I got to the logon prompt. I'm running the first command now to copy, so I should know in about 12 hours whether it succeeded.

Thanks for preparing the tools so that someone like me can accomplish this task.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Sounds good  This should do for awhile at least, I think I will put the 12TB in the Roamio basic. The space specified on the command list, I was unsure what to use. The current instructions say 2040 I believe. Someone who did it quite awhile back said they used 2000. And I had a printout of the original instructions back in January, it said 2090. For this last add I used the 2090 I think. When I did the first upgrade to the 8TB back (2 adds) in January I don't remember what I used, 2090 or 2000.


I had played with different values. Using a number to large would cause problems as the size of the partition can be a tinge over 2 TB. The value 2090 was right at the boundary and felt that is was safer to go a little smaller and settled on 2040. Realistically the number is somewhat in between 2040 and 2090 and probably closer to 2090.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> I had done that previously and didn't get very far. A script would start running to then enter an endless loop. I tried again this morning and paid closer attention to the last line in the loop and it appears that my USB mouse was the culprit. I disconnected the mouse and, after letting the boot process run longer than I anticipated it would take (leading me to worry that something was still wrong), I got to the logon prompt. I'm running the first command now to copy, so I should know in about 12 hours whether it succeeded.
> 
> Thanks for preparing the tools so that someone like me can accomplish this task.


I am glad you got it working.

Using the ISO to create a USB drive does not work well frequently. Was not sure how you were creating the USB drive as you referenced rar in your post. (or I just did not read it close enough )

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> I am glad you got it working.
> 
> Using the ISO to create a USB drive does not work well frequently. Was not sure how you were creating the USB drive as you referenced rar in your post. (or I just did not read it close enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes, I realize I hadn't posted a lot of details about what I had done so no wonder it wasn't clear what attempts I had made.

I can happily now report that I successfully completed the cloning and expansion. New hard drive is in my Roamio is working fine without having to do the Kickstart code and I'm happy that I'm now down to under 45% full on my box.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> I had played with different values. Using a number to large would cause problems as the size of the partition can be a tinge over 2 TB. The value 2090 was right at the boundary and felt that is was safer to go a little smaller and settled on 2040. Realistically the number is somewhat in between 2040 and 2090 and probably closer to 2090.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Ok, I decided to try the 12TB in a Roamio Basic. The Roamio Basic has a 8TB drive which was created fresh with MFSR4 (not sure if an updated MFSR is available now) around August 2018. The Basic is on TE3. So I cloned the 8 (which is nearly full) to the 12 in a dock. Then I used MFST 3.32 to do two adds (with the "c" switch and 2040) and add fixes. Seemed to work. But when I got to the point where recordings exceeded the original 8TB (as I said it was almost full) the Roamio went into an endless boot loop. Only way I could get out of it was to boot the Roamio with the internet disconnected, I could then get to the shows. But when I hooked up the internet again (ethernet) it soon started rebooting itself again. Here are pictures of the 12 with the 8 cloned to it, then a picture of the 12 after the two adds/add fixes.

















I put the 8 back in the Roamio, it is working fine. I am going to clone the 8 to the 12 again, did I do something wrong?


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> Ok, I decided to try the 12TB in a Roamio Basic. The Roamio Basic has a 8TB drive which was created fresh with MFSR4 (not sure if an updated MFSR is available now) around August 2018. The Basic is on TE3. So I cloned the 8 (which is nearly full) to the 12 in a dock. Then I used MFST 3.32 to do two adds (with the "c" switch and 2040) and add fixes. Seemed to work. But when I got to the point where recordings exceeded the original 8TB (as I said it was almost full) the Roamio went into an endless boot loop. Only way I could get out of it was to boot the Roamio with the internet disconnected, I could then get to the shows. But when I hooked up the internet again (ethernet) it soon started rebooting itself again. Here are pictures of the 12 with the 8 cloned to it, then a picture of the 12 after the two adds/add fixes.
> 
> View attachment 45062
> 
> 
> View attachment 45063
> 
> 
> I put the 8 back in the Roamio, it is working fine. I am going to clone the 8 to the 12 again, did I do something wrong?


I finished cloning the 8TB to the 12TB again. I have the 12 in the Roamio now, I have not done any adds yet, just a clone of the 8TB so only 8TB available. So did I do something wrong the first time? As I said the 8TB was created fresh originally with MFSR, 1004 release I believe. Clone was done in dock, TE3. Here are the commands I ran on the 12TB cloned from the 8TB MFSR drive. Using MFST 3.32.

1. mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY

2. mfsaddfix /dev/sdY

3. mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY

4. mfsaddfix /dev/sdY

Then put the 12TB in the Roamio, see above post for what happened. The picture of the partitions on the 12TB after the adds and fixes, does it look correct? Looks strange to me but I don't really know. The one thing I did not do is run the KS58, wanted to check here and see if the drive looks/looked the way it should.

If it is not working what should I try? Should I run the adds without the "c" switch, ie mfsadd -xm 2040. Should I run both adds (and fixes in the correct order) or should I just run one, then use it in the Tivo for awhile to see what happens. If I just do one add would I be able to do the second later on, obviously I will have made and deleted some recordings at that point.

Pretty much for now would like to know if the picture of the partition layout after the two adds is correct. If not what did I do wrong and what should I do now? I am going to keep the 8TB as is, since a Roamio I can swap back in any time.


----------



## tommage1

Oh, maybe a possibility would be to copy the 8TB to the 12TB as outlined in your post instead of cloning it? I did not do that since the drive is already 8TB. But maybe since it was created with MFSR I need to? Have no idea, of course I'd prefer to get the current clone expanded and working if possible (it would take 30 hours plus to copy the original 8TB to the 12TB). But a possibility if necessary since I can keep the 8TB intact as a backup throughout the procedure.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Oh, maybe a possibility would be to copy the 8TB to the 12TB as outlined in your post instead of cloning it? I did not do that since the drive is already 8TB. But maybe since it was created with MFSR I need to? Have no idea, of course I'd prefer to get the current clone expanded and working if possible (it would take 30 hours plus to copy the original 8TB to the 12TB). But a possibility if necessary since I can keep the 8TB intact as a backup throughout the procedure.


You did it correctly. You cannot use mfscopy on a drive larger than 4 TB.

I would consider running a KS 58 on the drive prior to going beyond 8 TB.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> You did it correctly. You cannot use mfscopy on a drive larger than 4 TB.
> 
> I would consider running a KS 58 on the drive prior to going beyond 8 TB.


Ok thanks. You know when I first did the adds everything seemed ok. The 8TB was very close to full when I cloned it. Probably 10-20GB left. After I did the adds and everything seemed to be working (for a day maybe), I transferred a large recording to the 12 from another Tivo. 30+GB I think. Which would have taken it over the original 8TB capacity and start to use the new space. That is when the problems started. I think this time I will just do normal recordings until the original 8TB will be exceeded, no transfers, no idea if doing a transfer that would have filled the original 8TB and use some of the new capacity could have caused a problem. We shall see, if the partitions in the pictures look correct to you then hopefully will work out this time, maybe run KS58 before and after the expansion. Again nice this is a Roamio, as long as I have the 8TB as a backup I can experiment with the 12.


----------



## jmbach

Since it was rebooting only when connected to the internet, wonder if it had something to do with transferring the recording more than crossing the 8TB mark. I would think it would reboot either way if it was over the 8 TB mark.


----------



## ciper

jmbach said:


> Using this technique, we should be able to go up to a 16TB drive. If there is enough interest and if I have enough time, a tool could be created to help make this procedure more automated.


Is there a donation link where I can help you get this feature added?


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Since it was rebooting only when connected to the internet, wonder if it had something to do with transferring the recording more than crossing the 8TB mark. I would think it would reboot either way if it was over the 8 TB mark.


Ok, have started the process. Figure I will post as I go in case anyone is interested. First of all the 12TB without the adds (cloned from the original 8TB) showed 100% full. 2 HD hours, 19 SD hours remaining. First step was to try the KS 58. Results were very interesting, after running the 58 the drive showed 34 HD hours available, 240 SD hours, 97% full. I THINK Tivo calculated this based on the old days, MPEG2 recordings without all those sub channels. So an hour of HD recordings was 5-10GB. Since I "gained" 32 HD hours I'm going to guess the KS 58 cleaned up or added 150 or more GB. Interesting.

I then pulled the drive and did one add and addfix using MFST 3.32. Including the "c" switch, 2040 size. The drive now shows 1636 HD hour capacity, 11281 SD hours. Since I only did one add for now 10TB capacity at this point. It seems to be working, connected to Tivo, doing some recording etc etc. I will probably leave it this way for at least a little while, for sure at least until it does a guide update (even though I connected to Tivo the guide was already up to date so it was a short connection). After I run it a day or two if all is well I will pull it and do the 2nd add to get it to the full 12TB. Am debating if I want to run another KS 58 before doing that since I have done one add.


----------



## tommage1

Oh, interesting after doing the KS 58 and the one add I show 1636 HD hour capacity. The "normal" 10TB capacity is 1603 or so I think? So mine shows 33 more HD hours. Very interesting since the 58 seemed to add or clean up 32 HD hours when I ran it initially. Hope this is not a problem, does anyone else with a 10TB installed show 1636 capacity?


----------



## ggieseke

tommage1 said:


> Oh, interesting after doing the KS 58 and the one add I show 1636 HD hour capacity. The "normal" 10TB capacity is 1603 or so I think? So mine shows 33 more HD hours. Very interesting since the 58 seemed to add or clean up 32 HD hours when I ran it initially. Hope this is not a problem, does anyone else with a 10TB installed show 1636 capacity?


2040 vs 2000?


----------



## tommage1

ggieseke said:


> 2040 vs 2000?


Well I first gained 32 HD hours BEFORE I did the add, after running KS 58 on the MFSR created from scratch 8TB. MFST had not been used at all at that time, (no add 2000 or 2040 or 2090). Since the numbers are so close, the 32 hours I gained from that and 33 hours after actually doing the one add (33 hours total, not 32 plus 33) I'm guessing whatever did it is the same thing and happened because of the KS 58 not any MFST command?) The instructions have changed slightly over time. First it said to do 2090 when doing a copy (starting with drive less than 4TB). And to do 2090 with the adds. Some people who did the procedure used 2000 according to their posts. The current instructions say to use 2000 with the copy, 2040 with the add. JMBach explained the numbers a bit in this thread. Perhaps when the instructions were updated (updated MFST version with the "c" switch) the "add" number got changed to 2040 and maybe forgot to update the "copy" number to 2040 from 2000 since that command in the procedure had not changed. Who knows but since you are the MFSR "guy" maybe test an MFSR 8TB from scratch drive, see if you gain 32/33 HD hours after running a KS 58.

Oh, I actually ran the KS 58 on the 12TB which the original MFSR 8TB had been cloned to. At that point MFST had not been used at all as I mention.


----------



## tommage1

By the way the MFSR created from scratch 8TB has/had been working flawlessly since August 2018. I am keeping it as a backup in case I have any problem with the upgrade to 12TB. Well one issue but it was not MFSR related, I got the four flashing lights one day but figured out it was the PS/AC adapter, problem went away when I changed adapter. I guess the original STARTED to go bad, still providing power but not enough to boot the drive.

I do think the 8TB and 12TB probably draw more power than the original 500GB drive in the Roamio basic. I do know the 12TB shows more power required in the specs compared to the 8TB (have not checked the original 500GB). Because of this I think I am going to use a 12v 2.5a adapter with this 12, instead of the stock 12v 2.0a adapter. I tested the 2.5A on a "parts" Roamio basic (no subscription and original 500GB drive), it seems to work fine. Heck almost tempting to buy a 12V 3A to be really safe, and maybe linear instead of switching. I think linear is supposed to be more stable, have heard when/if a switching fails it can damage the device it is providing power to?


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> By the way the MFSR created from scratch 8TB has/had been working flawlessly since August 2018. I am keeping it as a backup in case I have any problem with the upgrade to 12TB. Well one issue but it was not MFSR related, I got the four flashing lights one day but figured out it was the PS/AC adapter, problem went away when I changed adapter. I guess the original STARTED to go bad, still providing power but not enough to boot the drive.
> 
> I do think the 8TB and 12TB probably draw more power than the original 500GB drive in the Roamio basic. I do know the 12TB shows more power required in the specs compared to the 8TB (have not checked the original 500GB). Because of this I think I am going to use a 12v 2.5a adapter with this 12, instead of the stock 12v 2.0a adapter. I tested the 2.5A on a "parts" Roamio basic (no subscription and original 500GB drive), it seems to work fine. Heck almost tempting to buy a 12V 3A to be really safe, and maybe linear instead of switching. I think linear is supposed to be more stable, have heard when/if a switching fails it can damage the device it is providing power to?


I have a Liteon adapter that provides 3.33A. Works great with my larger drives.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Well I first gained 32 HD hours BEFORE I did the add, after running KS 58 on the MFSR created from scratch 8TB. MFST had not been used at all at that time, (no add 2000 or 2040 or 2090). Since the numbers are so close, the 32 hours I gained from that and 33 hours after actually doing the one add (33 hours total, not 32 plus 33) I'm guessing whatever did it is the same thing and happened because of the KS 58 not any MFST command?) The instructions have changed slightly over time. First it said to do 2090 when doing a copy (starting with drive less than 4TB). And to do 2090 with the adds. Some people who did the procedure used 2000 according to their posts. The current instructions say to use 2000 with the copy, 2040 with the add. JMBach explained the numbers a bit in this thread. Perhaps when the instructions were updated (updated MFST version with the "c" switch) the "add" number got changed to 2040 and maybe forgot to update the "copy" number to 2040 from 2000 since that command in the procedure had not changed. Who knows but since you are the MFSR "guy" maybe test an MFSR 8TB from scratch drive, see if you gain 32/33 HD hours after running a KS 58.
> 
> Oh, I actually ran the KS 58 on the 12TB which the original MFSR 8TB had been cloned to. At that point MFST had not been used at all as I mention.


I am just being conservative with those numbers and have not played around with them to get the ideal size. ggieseke gave me some guidance and will work on fine tuning the number.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> I have a Liteon adapter that provides 3.33A. Works great with my larger drives.


Is it linear or switching? Linear does seem safer and more reliable but it is not as efficient (plus supposedly switching can cause a hum.) Could use twice as much electricity as a similar spec switching adapter. While Tivos don't use THAT much electricity since they are 24/7 that could add up, especially if someone has multiple Tivos. Of course talking about Tivos that use an AC adapter. The ones that have an internal power supply, I wonder if upgrading to really large drives can strain the power supply? Back when the largest upgrades were 3-4TB probably not much of an issue, now getting into 8/10/12/14 I wonder. Roamio Plus/Pro. Or Premiere, it is possible to use at least an 8TB in a Premiere now I believe.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Is it linear or switching? Linear does seem safer and more reliable but it is not as efficient (plus supposedly switching can cause a hum.) Could use twice as much electricity as a similar spec switching adapter. While Tivos don't use THAT much electricity since they are 24/7 that could add up, especially if someone has multiple Tivos. Of course talking about Tivos that use an AC adapter. The ones that have an internal power supply, I wonder if upgrading to really large drives can strain the power supply? Back when the largest upgrades were 3-4TB probably not much of an issue, now getting into 8/10/12/14 I wonder.


Not sure. Here is Digikey link. PA-1041-71IL-LF Lite-On Inc. | Power Supplies - External/Internal (Off-Board) | DigiKey


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> Not sure. Here is Digikey link. PA-1041-71IL-LF Lite-On Inc. | Power Supplies - External/Internal (Off-Board) | DigiKey


Thanks, I am looking into adapters. Linear is usually WAY heavier than switching. I remember buying a replacement adapter for a video game system. The original was like 12v 1.x amp. It was heavy. The replacement was super light, when I got it I thought "what the heck it this"? Couple ounces maybe. It was switching type, and it did cause a hum.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Thanks, I am looking into adapters. Linear is usually WAY heavier than switching. I remember buying a replacement adapter for a video game system. The original was like 12v 1.x amp. It was heavy. The replacement was super light, when I got it I thought "what the heck it this"? Couple ounces maybe. It was switching type, and it did cause a hum.


If mine hums I cannot hear it. But I did not put my ear directly on it.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> If mine hums I cannot hear it. But I did not put my ear directly on it.


It's not the adapter itself with the hum, the hum will be heard when listening to the device it is powering. So with the video game system would hear hum while playing a game. And with a Tivo you'd hear it while watching a show. I am no expert on this, maybe do a search on linear vs switching adapters, interesting info. Obviously there are different qualities of adapters within the categories too. If your adapter feels pretty hefty it's probably linear, if it's lighter than what you would expect considering the size it's probably switching.


----------



## tommage1

"Switching power supplies gained popularity over the past 40 years because of their high efficiency (> 80%) and small footprint. Basically, switching power supplies take the incoming ac voltage and turn it into a high-frequency 20- to 500-kHz ac voltage that is then stepped down to a lower voltage using a small transformer. The voltage is then rectified, filtered and regulated. The high efficiency translates to less heat produced and more output current in less space when compared to a linear supply. Disadvantages of switch mode power supplies include the remnants of ac noise voltage included in the dc production and electromagnetic interference (EMI) created by the switching transistors used in the supply’s circuitry.

In almost all industrial applications, this unwanted electrical noise has little or no effect. Common sensors and actuators are robust in design with respect to the supply voltage. Some applications where the undesired noise may have an effect are in *****audio equipment*****, precision measurement devices and possibly some communication systems. When using devices sensitive to dc supply voltage fluctuations in a control scheme, follow the manufacturer’s requirements. Equipment malfunctions due to electrical noise are often difficult to isolate.

Linear power supplies have been around for as long as ac power. The efficiency is much less than that of a switching supply, usually 40%-50%. The lower efficiency means more waste heat to dissipate. Regulated linear power supplies operate directly using the 50- or 60-Hz ac supply voltage. The lower frequency requires a larger step-down transformer and a larger footprint than a switching supply of the same size. Different input voltages (100-120 Vac and 200-240 Vac) require a different part number or the connection of different primary voltage taps. Linear power supplies are simpler devices than switching supplies, so their reliability can be better and the dc output voltage is free from the high-frequency noise of a switching supply.

The price of components used in the electronics of a switching power supply keep coming down in price; inversely, the cost of copper in a linear supply continues to go up. For dc supplies with a small output current, linear supplies are usually less expensive. As the output supply current rating increases, the price difference begins to reverse until higher current switching supply become more cost effective than a linear supply."


----------



## tommage1

Just FYI I looked at the specs of your 3.33. It lists efficiency as 85%. Which means it is probably switching, they are usually 80% or more according to what I read. A linear adapter would be 40-50% efficiency, again according to what I have read.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> You did it correctly. You cannot use mfscopy on a drive larger than 4 TB.
> 
> I would consider running a KS 58 on the drive prior to going beyond 8 TB.


Am further along in the upgrade to the 12TB now. Last time I just cloned the 8TB to the 12TB and did the two add/addfixes at the same time, did not pull and put in the Roamio after the first add/addfix. And ended up with the problems I mentioned. This time these are steps I used.

1. Ran KS 58 on the 12TB.
2. Did ONE add/addfix with the "c" switch and 2040.
3. Put the drive in the Roamio, let it run for over a day, some new recordings and forced connections, including one that did a guide update.
4. Pulled the drive and did the second add/addfix. Now it is back in the Roamio being tested (so far so good). Shows 1927 HD hours, 13291 SD, 65% full. I have been doing an MFSInfo -d after each step and taking pictures. The final picture looks different than the first attempt, I have confidence it worked this time. Not sure if running the KS 58 helped, or pulling and testing the drive after the first add/addfix made a difference.

If anything fails I will post. Last failure came after the drive exceeded the original 8TB. Since I am at 65% now I guess that will happen when I reach 67-68%. Am not going to force the issue with large transfers like I did last time, will just let it happen.

Found a 12v 3a switching adapter I had sitting around. I think I am going to use it instead of the stock 12v 2a Roamio adapter. Am testing it on my no subscription "parts" Roamio for a day or two. I think safer to use a larger capacity adapter with these larger drives............. Once I did have issues with 8TB in a Roamio basic, the 4 flashing lights. It turned out to be the adapter (stock 2a). At the time I thought maybe the 2a just got old or malfunctioned. But maybe powering the 8TB for months is what caused it to fail, 8TB requires more power than the stock Roamio HD. May have stressed the 2a too much. Anyone considering adapters, make sure the voltage is the same AND the polarity. Extra amperage is ok, good, maybe necessary with large drives, it should only draw what it needs.


----------



## jmbach

My guess is that the power supply that came with the Roamio is a switching power supply.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> My guess is that the power supply that came with the Roamio is a switching power supply.


It definitely is. Most adapters sold nowadays ARE switching. There are laws/standards that require most adapters sold now to meet a certain efficiency standard.


----------



## tommage1

Just FYI here is a picture of the "final" MFSInfo -d of the 12TB upgrade. Which originally started with a fresh 8TB created with MFSR. The 8TB though created fresh was nearly full when I did the upgrade to 12TB.


----------



## jmbach

That looks correct. 

Since the KS 58 corrected the MFS before you expanded, I don't think you will run into the same issue. 

However, you are one of the first to test it on a MFSR drive that was essentially full. When you get above 67-68% full, then that will be the real test.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> That looks correct.
> 
> Since the KS 58 corrected the MFS before you expanded, I don't think you will run into the same issue.
> 
> However, you are one of the first to test it on a MFSR drive that was essentially full. When you get above 67-68% full, then that will be the real test.


Just FYI have been running 68-69% on the basic Roamio for about a week now and all seems good. I am using a 12V 3A switching power supply instead of the stock 12V 2A. Doubt it will use more electricity (or not much) as it should only draw what it needs.

The 10TB in the Roamio Plus with the out of order partitions is a different story though. It reboots itself a lot, usually when using the menu. If I get a blue spinning circle prepare for a reboot....... Even when accessing the Plus menu from another TE3 Tivo. Another oddity is some shows do not record. Some just say "unknown error". Some the channel shows not authorized. Just normal channels, and it changes, never know what channel will say not authorized. When I actually tune in the channels they will have a not authorized black screen. If I go channel up or down then back to the not authorized sometimes it is back. Other times I have to reboot the Tivo to get the channel back. Since I never know what channel might become "unauthorized" kind of a pain, any scheduled recording might not record. KS 58 does not work, gets to a point where it says "installing an update" but freezes there. Fortunately unplugging and plugging back in everything comes back, don't think it actually completed the KS 58 though.


----------



## tommage1

Ok, spoke a bit too soon on the 12TB I guess. Yesterday they were airing 43 episodes of an old series I wanted to record. Seemed to be working well throughout the day. But the last 3 episodes in the wee hours did not work. The one that should have been last said "deleted", for space. Second to last said "not recorded, unknown problem". 3rd to last the deleted for space message. The "deleted" ones are not in the deleted items folder though there are a lot of other deleted by me items. And I am at 69% so don't see how something could be deleted for space, even if it was it should delete what is in the deleted items folder, not a current recording. One more episode says not recorded, "problem getting tuner". It seemed to record a few minutes then stopped. So not perfect, will see what happens over time, no other errors like that in past week. I suppose could try another KS58.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Ok, spoke a bit too soon on the 12TB I guess. Yesterday they were airing 43 episodes of an old series I wanted to record. Seemed to be working well throughout the day. But the last 3 episodes in the wee hours did not work. The one that should have been last said "deleted", for space. Second to last said "not recorded, unknown problem". 3rd to last the deleted for space message. The "deleted" ones are not in the deleted items folder though there are a lot of other deleted by me items. And I am at 69% so don't see how something could be deleted for space, even if it was it should delete what is in the deleted items folder, not a current recording. One more episode says not recorded, "problem getting tuner". It seemed to record a few minutes then stopped. So not perfect, will see what happens over time, no other errors like that in past week. I suppose could try another KS58.


I would try a KS 58 again. See if any of your numbers change.


----------



## Johnny Danger

Does anyone here know if this will also work for a 14TB drive? Thanks.


----------



## jmbach

Johnny Danger said:


> Does anyone here know if this will also work for a 14TB drive? Thanks.


It will if you place an 8 TB MFSR image on the drive first.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## jmbach

@tommage1 any updates?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Johnny Danger

jmbach said:


> It will if you place an 8 TB MFSR image on the drive first.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk












https://photos.app.goo.gl/KVzzcfPLJ7pbGf9G6

" Failed to find MBR Identifier" inside that software that you run off the USB drive 3.32version.

Every see anything like this before?


----------



## jmbach

Johnny Danger said:


> https://photos.app.goo.gl/KVzzcfPLJ7pbGf9G6
> 
> " Failed to find MBR Identifier" inside that software that you run off the USB drive 3.32version.
> 
> Every see anything like this before?


I have not. Are you running MFSTools off of a USB drive?

How did you make the USB drive?

Also the computer may need to be in Legacy or Compatible mode for booting.


----------



## Johnny Danger

jmbach said:


> I have not. Are you running MFSTools off of a USB drive?
> 
> How did you make the USB drive?
> 
> Also the computer may need to be in Legacy or Compatible mode for booting.


I downloaded some random software from the internet to make the USB drive and I'm using a Sandisk Cruzer 64GB size disk(probably an overkill).

Perhaps I can try the process again on a smaller USB stick and with a different software.

Can you recommend software to create the USB Drive? Something that usually works ok if perhaps that is the problem?

Thanks.


----------



## jmbach

Johnny Danger said:


> I downloaded some random software from the internet to make the USB drive and I'm using a Sandisk Cruzer 64GB size disk(probably an overkill).
> 
> Perhaps I can try the process again on a smaller USB stick and with a different software.
> 
> Can you recommend software to create the USB Drive? Something that usually works ok if perhaps that is the problem?
> 
> Thanks.


My post where you downloaded MFSTools has several recommendations.


----------



## Johnny Danger

jmbach said:


> My post where you downloaded MFSTools has several recommendations.


There is no option to run this in windows correct? Just bootable USB drive? I would not ask except the fact that I am getting errors using the bootable drive method. Thanks.


----------



## jmbach

Johnny Danger said:


> There is no option to run this in windows correct? Just bootable USB drive? I would not ask except the fact that I am getting errors using the bootable drive method. Thanks.


You can run it inside a VM in windows.


----------



## tommage1

Johnny Danger said:


> I downloaded some random software from the internet to make the USB drive and I'm using a Sandisk Cruzer 64GB size disk(probably an overkill).
> 
> Perhaps I can try the process again on a smaller USB stick and with a different software.
> 
> Can you recommend software to create the USB Drive? Something that usually works ok if perhaps that is the problem?
> 
> Thanks.


I used YUMI. I did notice not all make/model USB flash drives work. Some do, some don't, not sure why. I did not try that big of a flash drive, got it working on an 8GB and a 16GB.


----------



## Johnny Danger

tommage1 said:


> I used YUMI. I did notice not all make/model USB flash drives work. Some do, some don't, not sure why. I did not try that big of a flash drive, got it working on an 8GB and a 16GB.


I made another drive using " Etcher" with a 32GB drive ( half the size of the other one) and it acts much different. It does not give me the same error message as the last drive but eventually brings me into a Linux login/password screen.

Did you have to input a User name/password during your process? If so, do you know what that user name and password are suppose to be?

Thanks.


----------



## tommage1

Johnny Danger said:


> Did you have to input a User name/password during your process? If so, do you know what that user name and password are suppose to be?


Assuming you are getting to the correct screen login info should be in the instructions for MFST, I believe "root" and "tivo" user and password.


----------



## Johnny Danger

tommage1 said:


> Assuming you are getting to the correct screen login info should be in the instructions for MFST, I believe "root" and "tivo" user and password.


Ok, good. thank worked. What is the next step? It seem to be like some kind of command line interface. I was under the impression that this was a process that just ran by itself.

Are you working off some kind of step-by-step guide?

Thanks.


----------



## tommage1

Johnny Danger said:


> Ok, good. thank worked. What is the next step? It seem to be like some kind of command line interface. I was under the impression that this was a process that just ran by itself.
> 
> Are you working off some kind of step-by-step guide?
> 
> Thanks.


Read the first couple posts in this thread. Also MFST thread:

MFS Tools 3.2


----------



## Johnny Danger

tommage1 said:


> Read the first couple posts in this thread. Also MFST thread:
> 
> MFS Tools 3.2


So I am assuming that you are using the " Copy" function which said " Copy TIVO drive to a new drive" ?

I started out with a 8TB drive, placed it and formatted it within the TIVO unit and placed it in my PC and ran that MFSR Version 1004 to expand the drive.

Now I am trying to I guess use the USB thumb drive with MFSTOOLS to copy that drive into a 14TB hard drive.

Assuming that I am suppose to use " COPY", there is another screen that comes up with a whole bunch of options.

Which one am I suppose to choose?

TIVO options


----------



## Johnny Danger

jmbach said:


> You can run it inside a VM in windows.


VM is like $20,000K enterprise level software right? My friend was telling me about it like 20 years ago in my office.

I have done the process of setting the TIVO Bolt format the 8TB with the TIVO software.
2. I removed the drive and used MFS 1004 tool on windows to expand the drive.
3. I put the drive back in the TIVO and confimed it has expanded space.
4. I took the drive out and placed it in my computer along with the 14TB blank hard drive.
5. I put in the MFSTOOSL V3.32

So now what do I do?

Do I need the " COPY" command code?

So so, which one of these options do I need afterwards?


*mfstool*
Code:
Usage: ./mfstool <function> <args> or <function> <args>
Available functions:
backup Backup TiVo drive fast and small.
restore Restore mfstool backups to TiVo drive.
copy Copy TiVo drive to a new drive.
add Add partitions to your TiVo MFS volume.
ck Perform a simple consistency check on MFS.
mls List files in the MFS volume.
supersize Supersize a TiVo drive.
d Dump raw data from MFS volume.
info Display information about MFS volume.
For help on a particular function: ./mfstool <function> -h

*backup*
Code:
Usage: ./backup [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
Options:
-h Display this help message
-o file Output to file, - for stdout
-1 .. -9 Compress backup, quick (-1) through best (-9)
-v Do not include /var in backup
-d Do not include /db (SQLite) in backup (Premiere and newer)
-s Shrink MFS in backup (implied for v3 backups without -a flag)
-F format Backup using a specific backup format (v1, v3, winmfs)
-q Do not display progress
-qq Do not display anything but error messages
-t Use total length of stream in calculations
-T Backup total length of stream instead of used length
-a Backup all streams
-i Include all non-mfs partitions from Adrive (alternate, custom, etc.)
Available in deprecated/debug build only
-f max Backup only fsids below max
-L max Backup only streams less than max MiB
-D Do not force loopset and demo files to be added

*restore*
Code:
Usage: ./restore [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
Options:
-h Display this help message
-i file Input from file, - for stdin
-k Optimize partition layout with kernels first
-r scale Override v3 media blocksize of 20480 with 2048<<scale (scale=0 to 4)
-q Do not display progress
-qq Do not display anything but error messages
-v size Recreate /var as size MiB (Only if not in backup)
-d size Recreate /db (SQLite in source) as size MiB (if not in backup)
-S size Recreate swap as size MiB
-l Leave at least 2 partitions free
-b Force no byte swapping on restore
-B Force byte swapping on restore
-w 32/64 Write MFS structures as 32 or 64 bit
-c size Carve (leave free) in blocks on drive A
-C size Carve (leave free) in blocks on Drive B
-m size Maximum media partition size in GiB for v3 restore
-M size Maximum drive size in GiB (ie lba28 would be 128)
Available in deprecated/debug build only
-P Do NOT optimize the partition layout
-z Zero out partitions not backed up

*mfscopy*
Code:
Usage: ./mfscopy [options] SourceA[:SourceB] DestA[estB]
General options:
-h Display this help message
-q Do not display progress
-qq Do not display anything but error messages
Source options:
-t Use total length of stream in calculations
-T Copy total length of stream instead of used length
-a Copy all streams
-i Include all non-mfs partitions from Adrive (alternate, custom, etc.)
Available in deprecated/debug build only
-f max Copy only fsids below max
-L max Copy only streams less than max MiB
-D Do not force loopset and demo files to be added
Target options:
-s Shrink MFS whily copying (implied for v3 copies)
-k Optimize partition layout with kernels first
-r scale Override v3 media blocksize of 20480 with 2048<<scale (scale=0 to 4)
-v size Recreate /var as size MiB and don't copy /var
-d size Recreate /db (SQLite in source) as size MiB and don't copy /db
-S size Recreate swap as size MiB
-l Leave at least 2 partitions free
-b Force no byte swapping on target
-B Force byte swapping on target
-R Just copy raw blocks (v1) instead of rebuilding data structures (v3)
-w 32/64 Write MFS structures as 32 or 64 bit
-c size Carve (leave free) in blocks on drive A
-C size Carve (leave free) in blocks on Drive B
-m size Maximum media partition size in GiB for v3 restore
-M size Maximum drive size in GiB (ie lba28 would be 128)
Available in deprecated/debug build only
-P Do NOT optimize the partition layout
-z Zero out partitions not copied

*supersize*
Code:
Usage: ./supersize [Adrive [Bdrive]] [options values]
Options:
-h Display this help message
-m MaxDiskSize in KB (Default is 2147483647)
-u User SizeInKb in KB (Default is -1)
-c TivoClips SizeInKb in KB (Default is -1)

*mfsadd*
Code:
Usage: ./mfsadd [options] Adrive [Bdrive] [NewApp NewMedia]
Options:
-h Display this help message
-r scale Override media blocksize of 20480 with 2048<<scale (scale=0 to 4)
-x Create partition(s) on all drives
-X drive Create partition(s) on a specific drive
-m size Maximum media partition size in GiB
-M size Maximum drive size in GiB (ie lba28 would be 128)
-f Use with -m to fill the drive multiple media partitions
NewApp / NewMedia
Existing partitions (Such as /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14) to add to
the MFS volume set

*mfsinfo*
Code:
Usage: ./mfsinfo Adrive [Bdrive]
Options:
-h Display this help message

*mfsck*
Code:
Usage: ./mfsck [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
Options:
-h Display this help message
-r Revalidate TiVo partitions on Adrive [Bdrive]
Available in deprecated/debug build only
-m [1-5] Set volume header magic to OK, FS_CHK, LOG_CHK, DB_CHK, or CLEAN
-e [1-3] Set vol_hdr.v64.off0c to 0x00000010, TiVo, or Dish

*mfsd*
Code:
Usage: ./mfsd [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
Options:
-h Display this help message
-f FSID Dump a single FSID
-F Dump ALL FSIDs
-i indoe Dump a single inode
-l log Dump a single transaction log
-s sector Read from sector, or from offset into file
-c count Read count sectors, where applicable
-C Perform consistency checkpoint before displaying data
-H Display in hex, no matter the format
-b Display in binary, no matter the format
-x Display formatted values in hex
-z zone Read from a single zonemap
-Z Dump ALL zonemap info

*mls*
Code:
Usage: ./mls [options] Adrive [Bdrive] <path|fsid>
Options:
-h Display this help message
-l long list (with size)
-R recurse

Thanks.


----------



## tommage1

Johnny Danger said:


> I have done the process of setting the TIVO Bolt format the 8TB with the TIVO software.
> 2. I removed the drive and used MFS 1004 tool on windows to expand the drive.
> 3. I put the drive back in the TIVO and confimed it has expanded space.
> 4. I took the drive out and placed it in my computer along with the 14TB blank hard drive.
> 5. I put in the MFSTOOSL V3.32
> 
> So now what do I do?
> 
> Do I need the " COPY" command code?


Well jmbach is really the person to ask about this since he is the programmer of MFST. Your situation is somewhat similar to mine. I was expanding an MFSR created 8TB to 12TB. My 8TB was nearly full though and I wanted to keep the recordings. I never used the "copy" command, I cloned the MFSR created 8TB to the 12TB in a cloning dock. Which left me with a clone of the 8TB on the 12TB, 4TB space left. All I had to do then is follow the instructions in the second post in this thread, run the mfsadds and mfsaddfixes with parameters as shown (be sure to check the drive letters, ie sda sdb etc.) You have the correct version I think, 3.32. For you probably easier since you are not trying to save anything on the 8TB I assume. So can use the copy command without actually copying recordings (probably one parameter left off). I hesitate to give you the command since I did not do it that way MYSELF, maybe figure out what parameters you think you need and post them and/or ask jmbach. Or CLONE in a dock (that would take probably 12-14 hours, it is cloning the full 8TB), would have to make sure the dock you use can handle 8TB drive. I'm guessing the copy would be much faster for you with the correct parameters since you don't need to save any recordings. Probably less than an hour?


----------



## jmbach

If you are starting out with a drive larger than 4TB, you have to clone not copy the drive via a duplicating dock or via software like dd in Linux or HDD Raw copy in Windows.


----------



## jmbach

Johnny Danger said:


> VM is like $20,000K enterprise level software right? My friend was telling me about it like 20 years ago in my office.
> 
> I have done the process of setting the TIVO Bolt format the 8TB with the TIVO software.
> 2. I removed the drive and used MFS 1004 tool on windows to expand the drive.
> 3. I put the drive back in the TIVO and confimed it has expanded space.
> 4. I took the drive out and placed it in my computer along with the 14TB blank hard drive.
> 5. I put in the MFSTOOSL V3.32
> 
> So now what do I do?
> 
> Do I need the " COPY" command code?
> 
> So so, which one of these options do I need afterwards?
> 
> 
> *mfstool*
> Code:
> Usage: ./mfstool <function> <args> or <function> <args>
> Available functions:
> backup Backup TiVo drive fast and small.
> restore Restore mfstool backups to TiVo drive.
> copy Copy TiVo drive to a new drive.
> add Add partitions to your TiVo MFS volume.
> ck Perform a simple consistency check on MFS.
> mls List files in the MFS volume.
> supersize Supersize a TiVo drive.
> d Dump raw data from MFS volume.
> info Display information about MFS volume.
> For help on a particular function: ./mfstool <function> -h
> 
> *backup*
> Code:
> Usage: ./backup [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> -o file Output to file, - for stdout
> -1 .. -9 Compress backup, quick (-1) through best (-9)
> -v Do not include /var in backup
> -d Do not include /db (SQLite) in backup (Premiere and newer)
> -s Shrink MFS in backup (implied for v3 backups without -a flag)
> -F format Backup using a specific backup format (v1, v3, winmfs)
> -q Do not display progress
> -qq Do not display anything but error messages
> -t Use total length of stream in calculations
> -T Backup total length of stream instead of used length
> -a Backup all streams
> -i Include all non-mfs partitions from Adrive (alternate, custom, etc.)
> Available in deprecated/debug build only
> -f max Backup only fsids below max
> -L max Backup only streams less than max MiB
> -D Do not force loopset and demo files to be added
> 
> *restore*
> Code:
> Usage: ./restore [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> -i file Input from file, - for stdin
> -k Optimize partition layout with kernels first
> -r scale Override v3 media blocksize of 20480 with 2048<<scale (scale=0 to 4)
> -q Do not display progress
> -qq Do not display anything but error messages
> -v size Recreate /var as size MiB (Only if not in backup)
> -d size Recreate /db (SQLite in source) as size MiB (if not in backup)
> -S size Recreate swap as size MiB
> -l Leave at least 2 partitions free
> -b Force no byte swapping on restore
> -B Force byte swapping on restore
> -w 32/64 Write MFS structures as 32 or 64 bit
> -c size Carve (leave free) in blocks on drive A
> -C size Carve (leave free) in blocks on Drive B
> -m size Maximum media partition size in GiB for v3 restore
> -M size Maximum drive size in GiB (ie lba28 would be 128)
> Available in deprecated/debug build only
> -P Do NOT optimize the partition layout
> -z Zero out partitions not backed up
> 
> *mfscopy*
> Code:
> Usage: ./mfscopy [options] SourceA[:SourceB] DestA[estB]
> General options:
> -h Display this help message
> -q Do not display progress
> -qq Do not display anything but error messages
> Source options:
> -t Use total length of stream in calculations
> -T Copy total length of stream instead of used length
> -a Copy all streams
> -i Include all non-mfs partitions from Adrive (alternate, custom, etc.)
> Available in deprecated/debug build only
> -f max Copy only fsids below max
> -L max Copy only streams less than max MiB
> -D Do not force loopset and demo files to be added
> Target options:
> -s Shrink MFS whily copying (implied for v3 copies)
> -k Optimize partition layout with kernels first
> -r scale Override v3 media blocksize of 20480 with 2048<<scale (scale=0 to 4)
> -v size Recreate /var as size MiB and don't copy /var
> -d size Recreate /db (SQLite in source) as size MiB and don't copy /db
> -S size Recreate swap as size MiB
> -l Leave at least 2 partitions free
> -b Force no byte swapping on target
> -B Force byte swapping on target
> -R Just copy raw blocks (v1) instead of rebuilding data structures (v3)
> -w 32/64 Write MFS structures as 32 or 64 bit
> -c size Carve (leave free) in blocks on drive A
> -C size Carve (leave free) in blocks on Drive B
> -m size Maximum media partition size in GiB for v3 restore
> -M size Maximum drive size in GiB (ie lba28 would be 128)
> Available in deprecated/debug build only
> -P Do NOT optimize the partition layout
> -z Zero out partitions not copied
> 
> *supersize*
> Code:
> Usage: ./supersize [Adrive [Bdrive]] [options values]
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> -m MaxDiskSize in KB (Default is 2147483647)
> -u User SizeInKb in KB (Default is -1)
> -c TivoClips SizeInKb in KB (Default is -1)
> 
> *mfsadd*
> Code:
> Usage: ./mfsadd [options] Adrive [Bdrive] [NewApp NewMedia]
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> -r scale Override media blocksize of 20480 with 2048<<scale (scale=0 to 4)
> -x Create partition(s) on all drives
> -X drive Create partition(s) on a specific drive
> -m size Maximum media partition size in GiB
> -M size Maximum drive size in GiB (ie lba28 would be 128)
> -f Use with -m to fill the drive multiple media partitions
> NewApp / NewMedia
> Existing partitions (Such as /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14) to add to
> the MFS volume set
> 
> *mfsinfo*
> Code:
> Usage: ./mfsinfo Adrive [Bdrive]
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> 
> *mfsck*
> Code:
> Usage: ./mfsck [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> -r Revalidate TiVo partitions on Adrive [Bdrive]
> Available in deprecated/debug build only
> -m [1-5] Set volume header magic to OK, FS_CHK, LOG_CHK, DB_CHK, or CLEAN
> -e [1-3] Set vol_hdr.v64.off0c to 0x00000010, TiVo, or Dish
> 
> *mfsd*
> Code:
> Usage: ./mfsd [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> -f FSID Dump a single FSID
> -F Dump ALL FSIDs
> -i indoe Dump a single inode
> -l log Dump a single transaction log
> -s sector Read from sector, or from offset into file
> -c count Read count sectors, where applicable
> -C Perform consistency checkpoint before displaying data
> -H Display in hex, no matter the format
> -b Display in binary, no matter the format
> -x Display formatted values in hex
> -z zone Read from a single zonemap
> -Z Dump ALL zonemap info
> 
> *mls*
> Code:
> Usage: ./mls [options] Adrive [Bdrive] <path|fsid>
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> -l long list (with size)
> -R recurse
> 
> Thanks.


Virtualbox is free.


----------



## Johnny Danger

jmbach said:


> Virtualbox is free.


Great to hear that the price has come down in the last 20 years.

So as far as copying over that 8TB expanded TIVO drive to the 14TB blank hard drive using MFSTools V 3.32 with th USB linux drive.

1. Would you use the * "*Copy" function (TiVo drive to a new drive.) or another command?

The end result I am trying to get is a 14TB drive on the TIVO Bolt. I am starting from scratch, I don't need to copy any shows over, just trying to get the larger hard drive space.

Thanks.


----------



## jmbach

Johnny Danger said:


> Great to hear that the price has come down in the last 20 years.
> 
> So as far as copying over that 8TB expanded TIVO drive to the 14TB blank hard drive using MFSTools V 3.32 with th USB linux drive.
> 
> 1. Would you use the * "*Copy" function (TiVo drive to a new drive.) or another command?
> 
> The end result I am trying to get is a 14TB drive on the TIVO Bolt. I am starting from scratch, I don't need to copy any shows over, just trying to get the larger hard drive space.
> 
> Thanks.


You can use the Linux dd command on the MFSTools ISO to do the copy. You cannot use mfscopy as the image on the drive is over 4 TB. It would be much easier using a cloning dock and then expand the drive with MFSTools.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> You can use the Linux dd command on the MFSTools ISO to do the copy. You cannot use mfscopy as the image on the drive is over 4 TB. It would be much easier using a cloning dock and then expand the drive with MFSTools.


So just curious, what if he started with a 4TB (put it in the Bolt, let it format, then use MFSR to get it to 4TB). Then could use mfscopy to copy the 4TB to the 14 and do 5 adds? Or no? if not the dock for the 8 to 14 would be easiest/fastest I think, only thing I don't like about a dock is no feedback, if any errors you won't know it. And have to make sure the dock can handle those size drives, if a dock is rated to handle 8TB could you still clone an 8TB to a 14TB since only 8TB (the limit) is being cloned? Many cloning docks I've seen are rated 8-10TB max though have not looked into them for about a year.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> So just curious, what if he started with a 4TB (put it in the Bolt, let it format, then use MFSR to get it to 4TB). Then could use mfscopy to copy the 4TB to the 14 and do 5 adds? Or no? if not the dock for the 8 to 14 would be easiest/fastest I think, only thing I don't like about a dock is no feedback, if any errors you won't know it. And have to make sure the dock can handle those size drives, if a dock is rated to handle 8TB could you still clone an 8TB to a 14TB since only 8TB (the limit) is being cloned? Many cloning docks I've seen are rated 8-10TB max though have not looked into them for about a year.


If it is a 4TB image then you can use mfscopy to the new drive.

I have an old dock that is rated for 4TB drives that works just fine with 12 TB drives. The thing to do is test the dock. Put a large drive in there and do a full read and write and read.


----------



## Johnny Danger

jmbach said:


> If it is a 4TB image then you can use mfscopy to the new drive.
> 
> I have an old dock that is rated for 4TB drives that works just fine with 12 TB drives. The thing to do is test the dock. Put a large drive in there and do a full read and write and read.


I did it on an 8TB hard drive but I am sure I could find a 4TB laying around the house if I had to or if that would make this process easier.

As for the different types of docks, I have these drives connected directly to my motherboard using the SATA connection.

So would the dock type be irrelavent at this point or are you referring to the external docking system to connect to the BOLT ?

To be honest, I am not good at the whole command line interface and would perfer some kind of a cloning software with a GUI if such a thing is possible?
Do you think something like clonezilla or some other software might also work?

Using the command line interface, if I type even 1 thing wrong, it won't work. For example, it won't identify the source or target correctly because I don't know how to property identify the drives in the system using that method. Do I reference them by drive make/model number,etc..?

Please let me know if any other cloning software would work on this TIVO drive or if it matters if you are using a 4TB or 8TB TIVO drive as your source before trying to create the 14TB TIVO drive?

Thanks.


----------



## tommage1

Johnny Danger said:


> lease let me know if any other cloning software would work on this TIVO drive or if it matters if you are using a 4TB or 8TB TIVO drive as your source before trying to create the 14TB TIVO drive?


Ok, well most of the instructions here are fairly clear I think. At this point I would say the best two options would be either let the Bolt format a 4TB drive which would then have 3TB, use MFSR to get it to to 4TB, then use MFST 3.32 as outlined in this thread (the copy then 5 adds and addfixes). Or get yourself a cloning dock, clone the 8 to the 14, then do the 3 adds and addfixes. I have not done CLONES with anything but a dock for years (again clones, not copies). The only method I have used MYSELF is cloning 8TB in a dock, to a 10TB and a 12TB, then expanding with MFST. You do have a big advantage, since starting fresh if something goes wrong you can just try again. I've done a lot of experimenting/testing over the years (as a user), sometimes have to try different things until get it done right.

Oh, if going the clone route maybe someone else can help with possible methods software wise. Keep in mind cloning an 8TB in a dock can take 12-14 hours, in a computer maybe twice that.


----------



## Johnny Danger

tommage1 said:


> Ok, well most of the instructions here are fairly clear I think. At this point I would say the best two options would be either let the Bolt format a 4TB drive which would then have 3TB, use MFSR to get it to to 4TB, then use MFST 3.32 as outlined in this thread (the copy then 5 adds and addfixes). Or get yourself a cloning dock, clone the 8 to the 14, then do the 3 adds and addfixes. I have not done CLONES with anything but a dock for years (again clones, not copies). The only method I have used MYSELF is cloning 8TB in a dock, to a 10TB and a 12TB, then expanding with MFST. You do have a big advantage, since starting fresh if something goes wrong you can just try again. I've done a lot of experimenting/testing over the years (as a user), sometimes have to try different things until get it done right.
> 
> Oh, if going the clone route maybe someone else can help with possible methods software wise. Keep in mind cloning an 8TB in a dock can take 12-14 hours, in a computer maybe twice that.


Hello.

What do you mean by " 5 adds and addfixes" or there being well documentation on how to do this?

Can this " 5 adds and addfixes" be done using any other software other then MFST 3.32?

As far as being " well documented", There is not any youtube walkthough video of someone performing this process or even a website with some screen shots.

It seem like there are hundred of pages of old archived forum with bits and pieces laying around.

I recently used a software called g4l which I created a bootable USB drive.

It gave me options to identify the source drive and identify the target drive and start the cloning process.

I'm not sure if this worked or not but compare this to MFST 3.32 in which are are giving a blinking cursre and expected to basically program comments on how to do this?

The password is "TIVO" for gosh sake.

You would think that it could at least have some options to select on common TIVO hard drive procedures? Like " press 1 to clone dirve" then let you select the Source and target drive.

Thanks.


----------



## Johnny Danger

jmbach said:


> Instructions to create an internal drive larger than 4 TB and keep all your recordings. Please read in its entirety before doing anything. Also note this has only been verified to work on the Encore (TE3) interface. It should work on the Hydra/Mira (TE4) interface but no guarantees at this time.
> 
> I have not examined Weaknees drives so I cannot comment if this will work on those drives. It should work on MFSR created drives based on my conversations with ggeseike the creator of MFSR.
> 
> First download the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO.
> 
> If your drive is 4 TB or larger, clone it to the new drive via your favorite cloning method and skip the mfscopy part of the instructions which I put in italics. If it is less than 4 TB use MFSTools to copy it to the new drive.
> 
> Boot the ISO with your drives hooked up to your computer.
> 
> Once logged into the ISO using username root with password tivo, determine what the names of your drives are. Easiest way is to type *lsblk -o name,size,vendor* at the command line.
> 
> Here sdX is your source drive and sdY is your target drive.
> _Run the command *mfscopy -am 2000 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then patiently wait. _
> 
> Once that command is finished or the cloning of your drive is finished, put the target drive into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.
> 
> Once that is done, return the drive to your computer. Your source drive is no longer needed and can to be disconnected from the computer. Will still use sdY for the target drive.
> 
> Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.
> 
> Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY*.
> 
> This will add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order in case we want to coalesce them later for further expansion. If you have less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space you have to add recording time.
> 
> Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.
> When that command is finished, I recommend that you verify it boots up in your TiVo successfully before repeating the commands to be on the safe side, however, it has worked without doing so.
> 
> Each mfsadd command followed by mfsaddfix command adds 2 TB of recording space to the drive and you can do that up to 3 times. So repeat those two command until you have run out of space or have run them 3 times.
> 
> If you happen to add more space than is available to add with mfsadd, mfsaddfix will reset the APM to remove the added partitions. Then when you put the drive back into the TiVo, it will ask that you divorce the external drive. Go ahead and do so.
> 
> If you are experiencing any issues after the process, run a kickstart 58 on boot up. Some people are experiencing connection issues such that the connection does not complete and this seems to resolve it. I would stay away from kickstart 57 as I invariably get a green screen boot loop. MFSTools can help you recover from this in most circumstances.
> 
> *There are no warranties or guarantees with these images and I take no responsibility for anything that happens using these images or loss of recordings that could happen by using these tools. You are logged in as root so you could do dangerous things to your system if you are not careful. Be aware that TiVo could change their OS in the future that may cause loss of recordings because of the drive being expanded. If there are any issues with these files let me know and I will see what I can do.*


Why don't you add some kind of GUI to this process? Even if it runs its like " press 1" for the cloning process, press 2 for the process to add extra 2TB" and allow the user to select the hard drive. It does not have to be some fancy interface with beautiful graphics, just even like a basic graphicing calculator program would be a vast improvement.

This current process requires someone with a lot of high end computer skill to complete like Mr. Robot or something.

Please make some basic interface for the average Joe.

Thank you.


----------



## tommage1

Johnny Danger said:


> What do you mean by " 5 adds and addfixes" or there being well documentation on how to do this?
> 
> Can this " 5 adds and addfixes" be done using any other software other then MFST 3.32?
> 
> As far as being " well documented", There is not any youtube walkthough video of someone performing this process or even a website with some screen shots.


As I mentioned I am a USER of these upgrade methods not one of the programmers. The programs themselves are a labor of love really, they are not for sale, no profit being made far as I know. So I myself am just happy they exist. There are instructions and examples IN THIS THREAD. The instructions are in the second post. Some examples of people doing it here also I believe. NOT videos though there are some screen shots. I myself am tired of everything nowadays being a video (well they are good for some physical procedures but not things like news or instructions, I like to READ things, if I want to go back to recheck something I don't want to have to rewind a video and figure out where to rewind to, I just go back and read the part I need to review again or even print it out). Anyway I'm quoting second post in the below, would not worry about the kickstart 58 for now though would be a good idea for later: Note the instructions on LOGIN and PASSWORD, the lsblk command with parameters to identify your drives (source and target), the mfscopy command if you will be using that (ie not cloning) and then instructions on the MFSadd and MFSaddfixes. To me this good documentation/instructions. If not for you maybe just buy an upgrade from Weaknees.

"First download the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO.

If your drive is 4 TB or larger, clone it to the new drive via your favorite cloning method and skip the mfscopy part of the instructions which I put in italics. If it is less than 4 TB use MFSTools to copy it to the new drive.

Boot the ISO with your drives hooked up to your computer.

Once logged into the ISO using username root with password tivo, determine what the names of your drives are. Easiest way is to type *lsblk -o name,size,vendor* at the command line.

Here sdX is your source drive and sdY is your target drive.
_Run the command *mfscopy -am 2000 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then patiently wait. _

Once that command is finished or the cloning of your drive is finished, put the target drive into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.

Once that is done, return the drive to your computer. Your source drive is no longer needed and can to be disconnected from the computer. Will still use sdY for the target drive.

Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.

Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY*.

This will add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order in case we want to coalesce them later for further expansion. If you have less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space you have to add recording time.

Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.
When that command is finished, I recommend that you verify it boots up in your TiVo successfully before repeating the commands to be on the safe side, however, it has worked without doing so.

Each mfsadd command followed by mfsaddfix command adds 2 TB of recording space to the drive and you can do that up to 3 times. So repeat those two command until you have run out of space or have run them 3 times.

If you happen to add more space than is available to add with mfsadd, mfsaddfix will reset the APM to remove the added partitions. Then when you put the drive back into the TiVo, it will ask that you divorce the external drive. Go ahead and do so.

If you are experiencing any issues after the process, run a kickstart 58 on boot up. Some people are experiencing connection issues such that the connection does not complete and this seems to resolve it. I would stay away from kickstart 57 as I invariably get a green screen boot loop. MFSTools can help you recover from this in most circumstances.

*There are no warranties or guarantees with these images and I take no responsibility for anything that happens using these images or loss of recordings that could happen by using these tools. You are logged in as root so you could do dangerous things to your system if you are not careful. Be aware that TiVo could change their OS in the future that may cause loss of recordings because of the drive being expanded. If there are any issues with these files let me know and I will see what I can do.*

Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"I have had my results for a long time: but I do not yet know how I am to arrive at them" - Carl Friedrich Gauss"


----------



## jmbach

Johnny Danger said:


> Why don't you add some kind of GUI to this process? Even if it runs its like " press 1" for the cloning process, press 2 for the process to add extra 2TB" and allow the user to select the hard drive. It does not have to be some fancy interface with beautiful graphics, just even like a basic graphicing calculator program would be a vast improvement.
> 
> This current process requires someone with a lot of high end computer skill to complete like Mr. Robot or something.
> 
> Please make some basic interface for the average Joe.
> 
> Thank you.


If this was my full time job, then not a problem. However this is not.

It is my goal to someday do something like that when the time avails itself. When that time is, is anybody's guess.


----------



## Johnny Danger

tommage1 said:


> As I mentioned I am a USER of these upgrade methods not one of the programmers. The programs themselves are a labor of love really, they are not for sale, no profit being made far as I know. So I myself am just happy they exist. There are instructions and examples IN THIS THREAD. The instructions are in the second post. Some examples of people doing it here also I believe. NOT videos though there are some screen shots. I myself am tired of everything nowadays being a video (well they are good for some physical procedures but not things like news or instructions, I like to READ things, if I want to go back to recheck something I don't want to have to rewind a video and figure out where to rewind to, I just go back and read the part I need to review again or even print it out). Anyway I'm quoting second post in the below, would not worry about the kickstart 58 for now though would be a good idea for later: Note the instructions on LOGIN and PASSWORD, the lsblk command with parameters to identify your drives (source and target), the mfscopy command if you will be using that (ie not cloning) and then instructions on the MFSadd and MFSaddfixes. To me this good documentation/instructions. If not for you maybe just buy an upgrade from Weaknees.
> 
> "First download the MFSTools 3.3-devel ISO.
> 
> If your drive is 4 TB or larger, clone it to the new drive via your favorite cloning method and skip the mfscopy part of the instructions which I put in italics. If it is less than 4 TB use MFSTools to copy it to the new drive.
> 
> Boot the ISO with your drives hooked up to your computer.
> 
> Once logged into the ISO using username root with password tivo, determine what the names of your drives are. Easiest way is to type *lsblk -o name,size,vendor* at the command line.
> 
> Here sdX is your source drive and sdY is your target drive.
> _Run the command *mfscopy -am 2000 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then patiently wait. _
> 
> Once that command is finished or the cloning of your drive is finished, put the target drive into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.
> 
> Once that is done, return the drive to your computer. Your source drive is no longer needed and can to be disconnected from the computer. Will still use sdY for the target drive.
> 
> Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.
> 
> Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY*.
> 
> This will add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order in case we want to coalesce them later for further expansion. If you have less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space you have to add recording time.
> 
> Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.
> When that command is finished, I recommend that you verify it boots up in your TiVo successfully before repeating the commands to be on the safe side, however, it has worked without doing so.
> 
> Each mfsadd command followed by mfsaddfix command adds 2 TB of recording space to the drive and you can do that up to 3 times. So repeat those two command until you have run out of space or have run them 3 times.
> 
> If you happen to add more space than is available to add with mfsadd, mfsaddfix will reset the APM to remove the added partitions. Then when you put the drive back into the TiVo, it will ask that you divorce the external drive. Go ahead and do so.
> 
> If you are experiencing any issues after the process, run a kickstart 58 on boot up. Some people are experiencing connection issues such that the connection does not complete and this seems to resolve it. I would stay away from kickstart 57 as I invariably get a green screen boot loop. MFSTools can help you recover from this in most circumstances.
> 
> *There are no warranties or guarantees with these images and I take no responsibility for anything that happens using these images or loss of recordings that could happen by using these tools. You are logged in as root so you could do dangerous things to your system if you are not careful. Be aware that TiVo could change their OS in the future that may cause loss of recordings because of the drive being expanded. If there are any issues with these files let me know and I will see what I can do.*
> 
> Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
> "Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
> "I have had my results for a long time: but I do not yet know how I am to arrive at them" - Carl Friedrich Gauss"


Thank you.

I have saved your post to my computer and printed out a copy to keep by my PC when trying this.

I got as far as my current progress, I get to the point where I run into"

" INTERGER ARGUMENT EXPECTED FOR -M"

I used an 8TB hard drive, initialized it with the TIVO, used MFS 1004 tool on windows to expand the drive. 
When I try to clone the drive over to the 14TB drive using those instructions, I get that Interger error as seeon on the screenshot.

Any idea what went wrong or how I can fix?

Thanks.


----------



## Johnny Danger

jmbach said:


> If this was my full time job, then not a problem. However this is not.
> 
> It is my goal to someday do something like that when the time avails itself. When that time is, is anybody's guess.


Maybe you can start a Kickerstarter, Gofundme, Indiegogo account and raise some donation money for doing the project?

Alternatively, is there like a place that you can post projects that multiple people can work on it? Kind of like Linux, Open office, Freebsd or other open source projects?

What do you think?

Thanks.


----------



## jmbach

Johnny Danger said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I have saved your post to my computer and printed out a copy to keep by my PC when trying this.
> 
> I got as far as my current progress, I get to the point where I run into"
> 
> " INTERGER ARGUMENT EXPECTED FOR -M"
> 
> I used an 8TB hard drive, initialized it with the TIVO, used MFS 1004 tool on windows to expand the drive.
> When I try to clone the drive over to the 14TB drive using those instructions, I get that Interger error as seeon on the screenshot.
> 
> Any idea what went wrong or how I can fix?
> 
> Thanks.


So you created an 8 TB image using an 8TB drive and MFSR.

Did you boot the drive in the TiVo to make sure it worked okay.

I am unable to view the picture you posted.

How are you cloning the 8TB image over to the 14 TB drive.


----------



## CrashHD

What is this talk of 14TB? Do we think that is possible?
I just bought a Roamio Plus, and I'm looking to upgrade it. I'm willing to risk a little money on testing parts if that is helpful. Whether that is buying a 14TB drive, or buying a weaknees one just to take a look at it (has been tempting).

I have time, this unit does not have to be put into immediate service


----------



## jmbach

CrashHD said:


> What is this talk of 14TB? Do we think that is possible?
> I just bought a Roamio Plus, and I'm looking to upgrade it. I'm willing to risk a little money on testing parts if that is helpful. Whether that is buying a 14TB drive, or buying a weaknees one just to take a look at it (has been tempting).
> 
> I have time, this unit does not have to be put into immediate service


It is possible to make a 14 TB image. Fastest way is with MFSTools on an image without any recordings on it. I do need to upload the latest ISO so that you have the latest mfsaddfix program to make it possible. I'll work on getting a new ISO uploaded this week.


----------



## CrashHD

That sounds great, and with a new box on the way (blank with no recordings), I will be in the perfect condition to test this out

Is 14 TB thought to be the current limit, or can it go higher. I need to know what hard drive to order. On that subject, is there a recommended brand/line to use? I know back in the day it was WD green drives, but I don't think they go that large.


----------



## jmbach

CrashHD said:


> That sounds great, and with a new box on the way (blank with no recordings), I will be in the perfect condition to test this out
> 
> Is 14 TB thought to be the current limit, or can it go higher. I need to know what hard drive to order. On that subject, is there a recommended brand/line to use? I know back in the day it was WD green drives, but I don't think they go that large.


So the largest image you can make via MFSTools method only is 20 TB.

Generally you want a drive that does not run hot. This usually is a 5400 rpm drive.


----------



## apsarkis

CrashHD said:


> On that subject, is there a recommended brand/line to use? I know back in the day it was WD green drives, but I don't think they go that large.


If you don't need quite that large a size, you can pry the drive from one of the WD Easystore's, often on sale at Best Buy. I got a 10TB last fall for $159 (currently $199), but right now the 12TB is a better deal for only $189. There is a 14TB model, but the price jumps to $309.

I had previously upgraded my Roamio Pro from 3TB to 4TB using a WD green, then cloned that to the 10TB and did the 3x "adds". I was 100% full at 4TB, should be a while before I get there again.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## CrashHD

jmbach said:


> So the largest image you can make via MFSTools method only is 20 TB.


That is awesome. I have two 8TB Roamios which were built using mfsr. I guess at the time it was not known how to build drives that large with MFSTools. I did something like this, way waaaaay back in the day. I set up a Series2 DirecTivo on a 2TB drive by starting with the minimal MFS image that had only a single MFS pair, and manually creating the second and third pairs, while keeping them under 1TB. 
Is this process doable with the current version of mfs tools, or do I need to wait for the next one?
Thanks!


----------



## jmbach

CrashHD said:


> That is awesome. I have two 8TB Roamios which were built using mfsr. I guess at the time it was not known how to build drives that large with MFSTools. I did something like this, way waaaaay back in the day. I set up a Series2 DirecTivo on a 2TB drive by starting with the minimal MFS image that had only a single MFS pair, and manually creating the second and third pairs, while keeping them under 1TB.
> Is this process doable with the current version of mfs tools, or do I need to wait for the next one?
> Thanks!


If you clone the 8 TB MFSR drive to the new drive you can go up to 24 TB image.


----------



## CrashHD

Wow. I would do that but for the finding of a drive that size, and while I have a pair of 8TB units, those are not the units slated for upgrade. The Roamio Pro coming in from ebay is the one due the upgrade.


----------



## CrashHD

jmbach said:


> If you clone the 8 TB MFSR drive to the new drive you can go up to 24 TB image.


My 8TB drive is in a standard, 4 tuner Roamio. The inbound 14 TB drive is slated for the newly acquired Roamio Plus.

What about the following idea?

Clone 8TB drive to 14 TB drive.
Expand 8TB image to use rest of 14 TB drive
Install cloned, expanded (transplant) drive into Roamio Plus.

I'm aware the recordings are encrypted, and would be lost, most likely requiring a C&DE, but the 8TB mfsr MFS partition structure should survive that. Will this then give me a running 14 TB system, with room for future upgrade to 24 TB?
Since there is no way to preserve recordings, is there a faster way to do this? Is there possibly a mfsbackup/mfsrestore operation which could let me start out at a blank 8TB on this 14TB drive?


----------



## CrashHD

Can you give a recommendation on a duplication dock? I've done this in the past with dd or ddrescue, but I don't want to tie up my computer for a day, or run the risk of a command line parameter error and scrambling the wrong disk. 
I've looked at https://www.amazon.com/SATA-Hard-Drive-Duplicator-Eraser/dp/B00G6TG5YE and it looks like it will do what I need.


----------



## jmbach

CrashHD said:


> My 8TB drive is in a standard, 4 tuner Roamio. The inbound 14 TB drive is slated for the newly acquired Roamio Plus.
> 
> What about the following idea?
> 
> Clone 8TB drive to 14 TB drive.
> Expand 8TB image to use rest of 14 TB drive
> Install cloned, expanded (transplant) drive into Roamio Plus.
> 
> I'm aware the recordings are encrypted, and would be lost, most likely requiring a C&DE, but the 8TB mfsr MFS partition structure should survive that. Will this then give me a running 14 TB system, with room for future upgrade to 24 TB?
> Since there is no way to preserve recordings, is there a faster way to do this? Is there possibly a mfsbackup/mfsrestore operation which could let me start out at a blank 8TB on this 14TB drive?


That may work. The issue is that you need to marry the image to the Roamio. I am not sure how that process is handles by the Roamio. Does it just clear things put or does it reformat the drive. The former is not a problem. The latter is.

I am thinking in all my experimentations in developing the ancillary tools, that it is the former. I remember somehow I did something that lost the added partition information in the MFS system but the partition information was still in the APM. It was then I added the switch to mfsadd to add already described partitions in the single digits back to the MFS.

The way mfsaddfix works is to see what partitions are available in the single digits and move the added partitions there. If the partition has some size to it, then it is not a "placeholder" partition and look for another one. If it cannot find any, erase what was added and let the TiVo fix the issue on reboot. (Which with my testing was about a 50 50) The way mfsadd works is that it creates the partition sizes first and then adds the infor to the MFS. Since the partitions are already described in the APM, we just need to add them back into the MFS.

As I write this I am beginning to recall what I did and that was a C&DE on a MFSR image that was expanded to 10TB. The C&DE took it back to 8 TB but left the moved partition information alone. So I needed mfsadd to add the information back. Thus the need for the new switch in mfsadd to allow it to do that.

All that to say, yes it should work. The steps would be. 
1) clone the 8 TB to your new larger drive. 
2)since the image is from another Roamio, put the cloned image in the intended Roamio and run a C&DE on itnto marry the image to the intended Roamio.
3)Run the mfsadd followed by mfsaddfix until you run out of space.

The faster way would require ggeseike to modify MFSR so that it would recognize that the drive is over 8TB and limit the image it makes to 8TB. Since that is such a niche usage and he, like everyone else working on MFS related tools have a lot of other things going on, that modification is low on the priority list.

If you are adept at using dd to copy portions of the drive to another drive, then I think there is a way to cut that time down to create the 8 TB image to about 15 minutes. PM if you are interested.


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## jmbach

CrashHD said:


> Can you give a recommendation on a duplication dock? I've done this in the past with dd or ddrescue, but I don't want to tie up my computer for a day, or run the risk of a command line parameter error and scrambling the wrong disk.
> I've looked at https://www.amazon.com/SATA-Hard-Drive-Duplicator-Eraser/dp/B00G6TG5YE and it looks like it will do what I need.


That one would work.

To be truthful, I have an old USB 2.0/eSata Thermaltake BlacX Duet that I have used up to 12TB drives that was only rated at the time for 4TB. I think sometimes the dock ratings are limited to the size of the available drives to test. However YMMV so go with one that is rated for the drive you are working with.


----------



## jmbach

Also let me update the ISO to add the new mfsaddfix before you start.


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## CrashHD

No hurry, my new hdd is still in the mail


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## jmbach

Now that the coffee kicks in, the MFSR layout is different than a standard TiVo and we would have to copy at least 2TB of data do it won't be the 15 minutes I said initially. In reality we do not have to copy the whole 2TB, but I do not know how much needs to be copied.


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## 3 Cushion John

What is the procedure for kickstart on Bolt Vox? Did it about 4 months ago, but can't remember key sequence. etc. Just need it for reference. Weaknees didn't seem to work for me.


----------



## jmbach

3 Cushion John said:


> What is the procedure for kickstart on Bolt Vox? Did it about 4 months ago, but can't remember key sequence. etc. Just need it for reference. Weaknees didn't seem to work for me.


You might have to put the remote in IR mode to access the KS portal. Weaknees information should work.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 3 Cushion John

TY...
After running mfscopy probably 20+ times to different drives, came to conclusion that 14 partitions is the only amount tivo would like?!. Would get 15 or 16 partitions and those invariably failed on tivo in different ways.
Is 14 the magic number?
Anyway, after mfsaddfix etc. would always run: bootsectorfix, mfsck, lsscsi etc to see consistency before installing back in tivo.
Was going to try dd copy, but never got around to that.


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## pmrowley

So I'm picking up a refurbished Roamio 3TB to replace my failing one (not interested in an Edge.) I have a WD EasyStore 10TB that's been sitting around that I'm going to drop in. It sounds like, according to the instructions, that I should clone and expand the 3TB to a spare 4TB drive first, then run this to expand to a full 10TB?

Thanks!


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## jmbach

pmrowley said:


> So I'm picking up a refurbished Roamio 3TB to replace my failing one (not interested in an Edge.) I have a WD EasyStore 10TB that's been sitting around that I'm going to drop in. It sounds like, according to the instructions, that I should clone and expand the 3TB to a spare 4TB drive first, then run this to expand to a full 10TB?
> 
> Thanks!


That is not what the instructions state. You do not need an intermediary drive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## pmrowley

jmbach said:


> That is not what the instructions state. You do not need an intermediary drive.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Okay, but your instructions say that the drive can only be expanded 3 times for 2TB each, leaving me with 3+6=9TB on a 10TB drive, unless I'm missing something.


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## jmbach

pmrowley said:


> Okay, but your instructions say that the drive can only be expanded 3 times for 2TB each, leaving me with 3+6=9TB on a 10TB drive, unless I'm missing something.


The initial copy command creates a 4 TB image on the 10 TB drive.

The information is in bold and italics.


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## pmrowley

jmbach said:


> The initial copy command creates a 4 TB image on the 10 TB drive.
> 
> The information is in bold and italics.


I read all of your instructions in post #2. Nowhere in those instructions, whether they are in plain type or bold and italicized, do they say that the copy process produces a 4TB image on the new drive. You just say to use different processes, depending on the size of the target drive. There is barely any explanation anywhere. The only warning you give is that you can only use the expansion command 3 times, for 2TB apiece. So forgive me if I acted with delay, in preference to error (Thomas Jefferson).

"Here sdX is your source drive and sdY is your target drive.
_Run the command *mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then patiently wait. _*<- So this command creates a 4TB image on the target. *Not Notated anywhere.**

Once that command is finished or the cloning of your drive is finished, put the target drive into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.

Once that is done, return the drive to your computer. Your source drive is no longer needed and can to be disconnected from the computer. Will still use sdY for the target drive."


----------



## GolfDude

im curious if this has ever been attempted.. you go through the steps of formatting a new drive inside the tivo, but then put the original back in and then attach the new formatted one externally by esata.. does the tivo see the externally connected tivo formatted drive, or does it cry its not supported? (or vice versa, put the new one inside the tivo and the old one connected by esata so youd have 2 drives connected)


----------



## jmbach

pmrowley said:


> I read all of your instructions in post #2. Nowhere in those instructions, whether they are in plain type or bold and italicized, do they say that the copy process produces a 4TB image on the new drive. You just say to use different processes, depending on the size of the target drive. There is barely any explanation anywhere. The only warning you give is that you can only use the expansion command 3 times, for 2TB apiece. So forgive me if I acted with delay, in preference to error (Thomas Jefferson).
> 
> "Here sdX is your source drive and sdY is your target drive.
> _Run the command *mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then patiently wait. _*<- So this command creates a 4TB image on the target. *Not Notated anywhere.**
> 
> Once that command is finished or the cloning of your drive is finished, put the target drive into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.
> 
> Once that is done, return the drive to your computer. Your source drive is no longer needed and can to be disconnected from the computer. Will still use sdY for the target drive."


Very well. I will edit the post to make it clearer. Since you have read the whole post. What suggestions do you have other than clarification on what the copy command does.


----------



## jmbach

GolfDude said:


> im curious if this has ever been attempted.. you go through the steps of formatting a new drive inside the tivo, but then put the original back in and then attach the new formatted one externally by esata.. does the tivo see the externally connected tivo formatted drive, or does it cry its not supported? (or vice versa, put the new one inside the tivo and the old one connected by esata so youd have 2 drives connected)


No, it will not work. The external can be added using MFSTools but the internal and external drive have to connected to the computer at the same time. The information on the external drive gets added to the internal drive MFS header.


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## GolfDude

so mfs tool has a command that if i connect both drives to my pc after i format the new drive in the tivo, that i can mark one as the external?


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## jmbach

GolfDude said:


> so mfs tool has a command that if i connect both drives to my pc after i format the new drive in the tivo, that i can mark one as the external?


Yes

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## GolfDude

What command is it that does that


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## GolfDude

is this the command i want to do
mfsadd -x -r 4 /dev/hdmain /dev/hdexternal ?


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## jmbach

GolfDude said:


> is this the command i want to do
> mfsadd -x -r 4 /dev/hdmain /dev/hdexternal ?


Need some details on your setup. What TiVo unit, current working internal drive, and external drive you are adding. Also what enclosure is the external drive in?


----------



## GolfDude

i have a romaio pro with the standard 3tb drive inside .. im looking to add a 8tb seagate ironwolf made for a NAS, whether as the main internal or an an esata enternal hookup with my esata adapter...


----------



## jmbach

GolfDude said:


> i have a romaio pro with the standard 3tb drive inside .. im looking to add a 8tb seagate ironwolf made for a NAS, whether as the main internal or an an esata enternal hookup with my esata adapter...


You can do it either way. If external, what external enclosure will you be using.


----------



## GolfDude

its more of an external dock than an enclosure..

so i would bless the 8tb drive in the tivo (up til it gets to the what county setup window), then use the formatter on the pc so all 8 tb are available, then with mfstools and the 2nd drive connected to my pc also, use the command i previously posted so one is marked as the external?


----------



## jmbach

GolfDude said:


> its more of an external dock than an enclosure..
> 
> so i would bless the 8tb drive in the tivo (up til it gets to the what county setup window), then use the formatter on the pc so all 8 tb are available, then with mfstools and the 2nd drive connected to my pc also, use the command i previously posted so one is marked as the external?


No.

Have the internal and external drive connected to the computer and boot MFSTools

The command would be mfsadd -fxm 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY where sdX is the internal drive and sdY is the external drive.


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## GolfDude

thank you.. worked like a charm.. with a nice 1700 HD Recording hours


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## jmbach

GolfDude said:


> thank you.. worked like a charm.. with a nice 1700 HD Recording hours


Before putting any drive in service for a TiVo, I would recommend a full diagnostic with the manufacturers diagnostic program to include a full read, followed by a full write and another full read.

But a little late for that now.


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## dave_d

Wait, so this software would let me transfer over my recordings from my 3tb drive to say a 10tb drive? Are western digital red(not pro) still the go to drive for an upgrade?


----------



## jmbach

Yes and yes. 

Strongly recommend doing the diagnostic runs stated above prior to putting it in use. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tommage1

dave_d said:


> Wait, so this software would let me transfer over my recordings from my 3tb drive to say a 10tb drive? Are western digital red(not pro) still the go to drive for an upgrade?


Myself, based on my current research, I would recommend the Purple over the Red. The Red has NAS type firmware which assumes there are other drives connected in RAID. The Purple has specific AV type error correction firmware. Both seem to use TLER but the Purple seems to be a better choice for an single drive AV device like a TIVO because of the specific firmware. IMO. Read info on the drives at the WD site, also read up on TLER. I also recommend what jmbach says about running full R/W/R tests on a drive before putting into service, even if a new drive. On really large drives that could take almost a week. But worth it for peace of mine I think, I am getting errors on my large drive upgrades, not sure what is causing them (two different Tivos, 10 and 12TB drives), COULD be drive errors, could be other things, if I had done the R/W/R tests before the upgrades I could most likely eliminate the drive issue possibility.


----------



## bertp

I am just starting to consider this but it looks interesting!! Can anyone confirm this works with Hydra/Mira?

After little further checking, Kickstart 58 may not work for Hydra/Mira based on
1) My Tivo doesn't do Kickstart 58? (10 TB Roamio) and 2)TiVo Kickstart Codes

Is Kickstart 58 a crucial step? or is it a simple mater to revert to Encore (TE3)?


----------



## jmbach

bertp said:


> I am just starting to consider this but it looks interesting!! Can anyone confirm this works with Hydra/Mira?
> 
> After little further checking, Kickstart 58 may not work for Hydra/Mira based on
> 1) My Tivo doesn't do Kickstart 58? (10 TB Roamio) and 2)TiVo Kickstart Codes
> 
> Is Kickstart 58 a crucial step? or is it a simple mater to revert to Encore (TE3)?


It is not a crucial step. I just recommend it as it seems to prevent some issues for some upgrades. But if TE4 does not complete one.......hmmm. thanks for the pointer to the TCF thread. Did not see that one. The link about KS you point to is an old copy of Weaknees post and you should fo to Weakness site to see current info.

All my TiVos are on TE3 save one Bolt on TE4 which I use to do testing on. I have not done a lot of testing with TE4. My main investigations with TE4 is why some drives fail to boot and others do which I am still working on. I will power it back up and check to see what KS codes ot will complete on TE4 hopefully this weekend.


----------



## lexsar

I just obtained a Roamio Plus with its original 1TB drive. It had 147 HD Hrs of space.

I purchased a new WD 8TB Red (not Pro). Ran WD Data Lifeguard (extended test) and it passed. Installed new 8TB Red into Tivo Roamio Plus. The Tivo Roamio Plus configured it and I see that I have 219 HD Hrs recording space. I powered it down installed in my PC and booted mftools 3.32 with the 8TB directly attached via Sata. Here's where I am stuck.

Used mfstools 3.32 to expand volume
run: lsblk -o name,size,vendor
returns: sda 7.3TB ATA

run: mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sda
returns: mfsadd: Zone map checksum error.

Any guidance on what to do now to get up to the full capacity of this WD 8TB Red?

*Edit: I am wondering now if I should wipe this drive and start over following the instructions for MFS Reformatter.


----------



## jmbach

lexsar said:


> I just obtained a Roamio Plus with its original 1TB drive. It had 147 HD Hrs of space.
> 
> I purchased a new WD 8TB Red (not Pro). Ran WD Data Lifeguard (extended test) and it passed. Installed new 8TB Red into Tivo Roamio Plus. The Tivo Roamio Plus configured it and I see that I have 219 HD Hrs recording space. I powered it down installed in my PC and booted mftools 3.32 with the 8TB directly attached via Sata. Here's where I am stuck.
> 
> Used mfstools 3.32 to expand volume
> run: lsblk -o name,size,vendor
> returns: sda 7.3TB ATA
> 
> run: mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sda
> returns: mfsadd: Zone map checksum error.
> 
> Any guidance on what to do now to get up to the full capacity of this WD 8TB Red?
> 
> *Edit: I am wondering now if I should wipe this drive and start over following the instructions for MFS Reformatter.


You need to use MFSR and not MFSTools in this case.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## lexsar

jmbach said:


> You need to use MFSR and not MFSTools in this case.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


That's what I am thinking now. Thanks for the confirmation!


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## HoosontheTeevo

Hello - thanks in advance for any advice.

I am using this thread to upgrade my Roamio OTA 4TB drive to 12TB. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

I Ran my new 12TB wd120emaz shucked from a wd elements amazon sale - through wd data lifeguard extended testing, then full erase/write zeros, then full extended testing again, all ok.

pulled my 4tb roamio ota drive and tried to clone the 4tb to the 12tb in my inateck fd2002 dock as an offline clone - and it is stuck with the flashing blue 25% light after 12 hours plus. So i guess the inateck can't handle the 12 tb.

I could go the mfscopy route on this 4tb roamio ota drive, yes? However I have an 8tb roamio plus I will do next and will need to do the cloning route - and prefer faster on the 4tb ota. Anyway - when you mention "favorite cloning method" in posts 1 and 2 - can you point me to some options? I do have a windows 7 machine where i can upplug some internal drives and use those internal sata slots - I did try minitool and acronis - but both showed the tivo source (4tb) and target (12tb) drives as "unallocated" i.e. didn't recognize the formatting and didn't give me the option for a clone/byte for byte copy.

I have a macbook - could i use superduper or carboncopycloner with the drives in the dock? I think i'd rather use the internal sata ports on my win7 machine for speed/stability/safety - as laptop and dock could get knocked in my house with kids at home due to corona virus shutdowns, etc. 

do i need to go the linux live usb stick or dvd route to clone the 4tb to the 12tb? (and later my 8tb to a 12tb?) with a command line? And what would that be - is it ddrescue? Is there a GUI windows cloning software (i'd prefer - unless a linux/command line cloning is fastest/safest/best) that will do the clone here - or does it have to be a non windows command line operation - and could you point me to the best option (quickest and safest), etc.

Thanks -sorry for the duh questions.


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> I Ran my new 12TB wd120emaz shucked from a wd elements amazon sale - through wd data lifeguard extended testing, then full erase/write zeros, then full extended testing again, all ok.
> 
> pulled my 4tb roamio ota drive and tried to clone the 4tb to the 12tb in my inateck fd2002 dock as an offline clone - and it is stuck with the flashing blue 25% light after 12 hours plus. So i guess the inateck can't handle the 12 tb.


More than likely there is a bad spot on the 4TB it cannot handle. To save what you have I would use ddrescue an copy it to your 12TB drive.



HoosontheTeevo said:


> I could go the mfscopy route on this 4tb roamio ota drive, yes?


mfscopy does not handle bad spots in drives very well either. It relies on what the OS can do without any additional measures for error correction.



HoosontheTeevo said:


> However I have an 8tb roamio plus I will do next and will need to do the cloning route - and prefer faster on the 4tb ota. Anyway - when you mention "favorite cloning method" in posts 1 and 2 - can you point me to some options? I do have a windows 7 machine where i can upplug some internal drives and use those internal sata slots - I did try minitool and acronis - but both showed the tivo source (4tb) and target (12tb) drives as "unallocated" i.e. didn't recognize the formatting and didn't give me the option for a clone/byte for byte copy.


HDD Raw Copy Tool by hddguru works in windows, dd in Linux, or try your dock again. The drives do not have a format that windows recognises so it will show up as unallocated. DO NOT let windows initialize them.


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## HoosontheTeevo

thanks so much. i went ahead and found hdd raw copy and am watching it be near to finish - though it's going to be 20 hours - does that seem innordinately long for a 4tb clone (it is mostly full) ? I assume b/c it's within win 7? Choosing a cloning method among the offline dock, hdd raw copy, and ddrescue - is either faster at cloning (thinking of my 8tb drive)? Also - in light of this very long cloning time - maybe I didn't wait long enough on the dock - but if was till flashing the 25% light at close to 12 hours. Is running the ddrescue cloning better/faster from a linux boot vs. within a Linux virtual box on win7?

THanks again. Moving forward is the kickstart 58 still recommended as part of the process for when these 12 tb drives are ready to put in and use?

and - when i put the 12tb in the roamio to be initialized and get to selecting country on guide setup - do i just pull the power plug from the roamio and remove the drive - or hot pull it? 

thanks again jmbach!


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> thanks so much. i went ahead and found hdd raw copy and am watching it be near to finish - though it's going to be 20 hours - does that seem innordinately long for a 4tb clone (it is mostly full) ? I assume b/c it's within win 7? Choosing a cloning method among the offline dock, hdd raw copy, and ddrescue - is either faster at cloning (thinking of my 8tb drive)? Also - in light of this very long cloning time - maybe I didn't wait long enough on the dock - but if was till flashing the 25% light at close to 12 hours. Is running the ddrescue cloning better/faster from a linux boot vs. within a Linux virtual box on win7?


The software cloning methods I referenced copy the drive block by block. It does not care if there is any valid information or not in that block.

A dock is the quickest.

I think your dock was stuck at trying to copy a bad spot.

In general running a program on the machine vs a virtual machine is faster. This unless you have a very expensive virtual environment you run all your OSes under.



HoosontheTeevo said:


> THanks again. Moving forward is the kickstart 58 still recommended as part of the process for when these 12 tb drives are ready to put in and use?


I do. And I recommend testing the TiVo at each step giving it the opportunity to correct issues as the drive is being built rather than possibly compounding errors by doing all the steps at once.



HoosontheTeevo said:


> and - when i put the 12tb in the roamio to be initialized and get to selecting country on guide setup - do i just pull the power plug from the roamio and remove the drive - or hot pull it?
> 
> thanks again jmbach!


This drive should boot up in the same state as the original.[/QUOTE]


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## HoosontheTeevo

thanks so much- sorry for being a bit dense...

when i stop the new disk guided setup at choose a country - do i just pull the power on the tivo?


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> thanks so much- sorry for being a bit dense...
> 
> when i stop the new disk guided setup at choose a country - do i just pull the power on the tivo?


What does your current 4TB do in your TiVo when it boots.

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## HoosontheTeevo

after i shutdown the seemingly stuck dock clone - i put it back in the roamio ota and it loaded right up - no issues. i took the opportunity to delete some big shows i didn't need, etc. then did the clone. raw copy clone is done and i'm about to put the 12tb in the ota and fire it up to country choice

thanks!


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> after i shutdown the seemingly stuck dock clone - i put it back in the roamio ota and it loaded right up - no issues. i took the opportunity to delete some big shows i didn't need, etc. then did the clone. raw copy clone is done and i'm about to put the 12tb in the ota and fire it up to country choice
> 
> thanks!


Then the new drive will boot up the same way. I am not sure where you are thinking you will have to choose a country after copying the drive.

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## HoosontheTeevo

sorry - i mean the next step after cloning - to put it into my tivo to test it/have it start guided setup - but stop when it gets to the "select your country" part or whatever - in other words putting the newly cloned (not yet expanded) 12tb into the tivo with the 4tb cloned image on it to make sure roamio likes it ok. - just pull the power cord or pull the drive - or is there some other way to shut it down to go back to my win7 machine to do the mfsadd and mfsaddfix sequence to be able to use the whole 12tb.

thanks. sorry for this time wasting on potential triviality (always try to shut down my roamios on the 'restart' command - the instant power light goes out so as not to pull plug on something that is 'running'.


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> sorry - i mean the next step after cloning - to put it into my tivo to test it/have it start guided setup - but stop when it gets to the "select your country" part or whatever - in other words putting the newly cloned (not yet expanded) 12tb into the tivo with the 4tb cloned image on it to make sure roamio likes it ok. - just pull the power cord or pull the drive - or is there some other way to shut it down to go back to my win7 machine to do the mfsadd and mfsaddfix sequence to be able to use the whole 12tb.
> 
> thanks. sorry for this time wasting on potential triviality (always try to shut down my roamios on the 'restart' command - the instant power light goes out so as not to pull plug on something that is 'running'.


You will not see "select your country" as it would boot up as normal. Shut it down as you have been via the restart command.

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## HoosontheTeevo

ahh, ok - it will be as if it is seeing the original 4tb drive (that country step was for initilizing new drives without cloned images on them). gotcha. thanks, duh.

edit /update

ok - excellent - 12tb was treated as the original 4tb drive, tested playing various shows.etc. all a.o.k.
now have done first mfsadd/addfix - and now testing in tivo... awesome first extra 2tb has been added/recognized....


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## HoosontheTeevo

doh - meant to do a kickstart 58.

i've already put the new drive in and booted up, then removed/and then did the first mfsadd/addfix with mfstools - and put it in the tivo and booted up with it and saw expanded space, and about to do a second mfsadd/addfix is it too late to do the kickstart 58?  should i do it after i'm done expanding or now?


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> doh - meant to do a kickstart 58.
> 
> i've already put the new drive in and booted up, then removed/and then did the first mfsadd/addfix with mfstools - and put it in the tivo and booted up with it and saw expanded space, and about to do a second mfsadd/addfix is it too late to do the kickstart 58? should i do it after i'm done expanding or now?


Never too late.

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## HoosontheTeevo

ok, will do it now - 12TB expanded/ready to go - 4 mfsadds/fixes, multiple tivo boot ups/connections.

1927 hours of Hi Def recording space! Thanks jmbach - can I send a paypal donation your way for this excellent procedure/help - or where would you direct?


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> ok, will do it now - 12TB expanded/ready to go - 4 mfsadds/fixes, multiple tivo boot ups/connections.
> 
> 1927 hours of Hi Def recording space! Thanks jmbach - can I send a paypal donation your way for this excellent procedure/help - or where would you direct?


Donations can directed toward ggieseke the developer of MFSR and DvrBARS.

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## HoosontheTeevo

THanks again jmbach, will do.

Am preparing to pull my roamio plus 8tb drive, clone it to a 12tb WD white, and expand it to use the full 12tb of space.

Would like to clone it as quickly (and safely/high quality a way) as possible. The hdd raw copy was very slow to clone the 4tb drive. would ddrescue be quicker - and is there a live bootable image that lets me do it in a linux environement where I assume it would be quicker? I've also found another tool poking around online - hdd superclone HDDSuperClone - SD Computing Service

there appears to be alive cd image to use it outside of windows.

Am I correct in assuming a clone will be quicker in linux directly vs. within a windows program - like i did the hdd raw copy clone?

do most linux live cd's/bootable images have ddrescue - ? Do you know anything about hdd superclone?

I'd love to try my inova fd2002 dock to do an offline clone - but don't want to waste 12-20 hours and not know if it's actually working after it didnt' seem to advance on the 4tb clone.

one final question - with the tivo being 'critical infrastructure' during this virus home 'confinement' - could I pop my OTA new 12tb drive into the roamio plus with cablecard to let us keep watching/recording cable? or will the cablecard get unpaired I assume?

thanks - sorry so many questions.


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> THanks again jmbach, will do.
> 
> Am preparing to pull my roamio plus 8tb drive, clone it to a 12tb WD white, and expand it to use the full 12tb of space.
> 
> Would like to clone it as quickly (and safely/high quality a way) as possible. The hdd raw copy was very slow to clone the 4tb drive. would ddrescue be quicker - and is there a live bootable image that lets me do it in a linux environement where I assume it would be quicker? I've also found another tool poking around online - hdd superclone HDDSuperClone - SD Computing Service
> 
> there appears to be alive cd image to use it outside of windows.
> 
> Am I correct in assuming a clone will be quicker in linux directly vs. within a windows program - like i did the hdd raw copy clone?
> 
> do most linux live cd's/bootable images have ddrescue - ? Do you know anything about hdd superclone?
> 
> I'd love to try my inova fd2002 dock to do an offline clone - but don't want to waste 12-20 hours and not know if it's actually working after it didnt' seem to advance on the 4tb clone.
> 
> one final question - with the tivo being 'critical infrastructure' during this virus home 'confinement' - could I pop my OTA new 12tb drive into the roamio plus with cablecard to let us keep watching/recording cable? or will the cablecard get unpaired I assume?
> 
> thanks - sorry so many questions.


Personally I still would try the cloning dock first. Software cloning always takes longer and I am not sure there is a big difference between Linux or Windows.

I would not swap the drives. Would that it were so simple.

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## halloran

Hey gang

Just ran through this threads procedure and successfully reanimated bolt #1 from a dead 6TB drive to a new 10TB drive (external enclosure/direct sata/TE3)

Not wanting to lose my TiVo library again (yes I know about Plex, kttmg, etc.) I’m going to create my own version of a “TiVo raid” system consisting of another bolt with another 10TB drive with duplicate recordings.

I’m currently stumbling on this very early step in the process

mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdc /dev/sda 

results in the following error

Scanning source drive. Please wait a moment.
Copy source: Can not determine primary boot partition from boot sector.

sdc is the original 500GB drive from bolt #2 (downgraded to TE3) and sda is the brand new 10TB drive
Original bolt drive runs perfectly in the bolt

Thoughts?


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## jmbach

halloran said:


> Hey gang
> 
> Just ran through this threads procedure and successfully reanimated bolt #1 from a dead 6TB drive to a new 10TB drive (external enclosure/direct sata/TE3)
> 
> Not wanting to lose my TiVo library again (yes I know about Plex, kttmg, etc.) I'm going to create my own version of a "TiVo raid" system consisting of another bolt with another 10TB drive with duplicate recordings.
> 
> I'm currently stumbling on this very early step in the process
> 
> mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdc /dev/sda
> 
> results in the following error
> 
> Scanning source drive. Please wait a moment.
> Copy source: Can not determine primary boot partition from boot sector.
> 
> sdc is the original 500GB drive from bolt #2 (downgraded to TE3) and sda is the brand new 10TB drive
> Original bolt drive runs perfectly in the bolt
> 
> Thoughts?


You need to run bootsectorfix program on the drive. The information is in the post you downloaded MFSTools ISO.

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## jetcobra

I am updating a Bolt. In 2017 I installed a 4TB HDD and have used it since. Recently I had a couple of 4 flashing LED's that I recovered by rebooting (the last time this occured was in December '19), so I decided to replace that 4TB with an 8TB external WD Red HDD.

Before beginning the update process I took the 4TB (Seagate Barracuda) HDD and ran it through Sea Tools (long test) and it passed, so I then ran it through a Kickstart 58 and all looked good, do I began the update process.

First I cloned the 8TB with the 4TB using the Sabrent dual dock. I then installed the 8TB into the Bolt and ran it for two days with several Tivo connections and watching several programs and checking season passes and to do's. All looked good.

I then booted my PC into MFS 3.2 (I had verified that this was SDB) and ran mfsadd which indicated success. So I then ran mfsaddfix which also indicated success.

I then installed the 8TB to the Bolt and booted. At first I got the initial Tivo screen and a green LED then after a few seconds got all 4 LED's flashing and no picture. I tried a kickstart 58 but never got the gree/amber flashing LED's so was not successful.

What should I do next? See picture of MFS tools attached.


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## jetcobra

Correction for the above input - I used MFS Tools 3.32. I burned an ISO on a DVD.

Thanks for any inputs on what I could try next.


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## jmbach

jetcobra said:


> I am updating a Bolt. In 2017 I installed a 4TB HDD and have used it since. Recently I had a couple of 4 flashing LED's that I recovered by rebooting (the last time this occured was in December '19), so I decided to replace that 4TB with an 8TB external WD Red HDD.
> 
> Before beginning the update process I took the 4TB (Seagate Barracuda) HDD and ran it through Sea Tools (long test) and it passed, so I then ran it through a Kickstart 58 and all looked good, do I began the update process.
> 
> First I cloned the 8TB with the 4TB using the Sabrent dual dock. I then installed the 8TB into the Bolt and ran it for two days with several Tivo connections and watching several programs and checking season passes and to do's. All looked good.
> 
> I then booted my PC into MFS 3.2 (I had verified that this was SDB) and ran mfsadd which indicated success. So I then ran mfsaddfix which also indicated success.
> 
> I then installed the 8TB to the Bolt and booted. At first I got the initial Tivo screen and a green LED then after a few seconds got all 4 LED's flashing and no picture. I tried a kickstart 58 but never got the gree/amber flashing LED's so was not successful.
> 
> What should I do next? See picture of MFS tools attached.
> 
> View attachment 47403


How is the 8 TB connected to the Bolt? Is the drive using external power supply or getting the power from the bolt.

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## dave_d

tommage1 said:


> Myself, based on my current research, I would recommend the Purple over the Red. The Red has NAS type firmware which assumes there are other drives connected in RAID. The Purple has specific AV type error correction firmware. Both seem to use TLER but the Purple seems to be a better choice for an single drive AV device like a TIVO because of the specific firmware. IMO. Read info on the drives at the WD site, also read up on TLER. I also recommend what jmbach says about running full R/W/R tests on a drive before putting into service, even if a new drive. On really large drives that could take almost a week. But worth it for peace of mine I think, I am getting errors on my large drive upgrades, not sure what is causing them (two different Tivos, 10 and 12TB drives), COULD be drive errors, could be other things, if I had done the R/W/R tests before the upgrades I could most likely eliminate the drive issue possibility.


Thanks for the info as well as jmbach. Actually I already bought the drive before I saw your post but haven't had time to try it out. Anyway I'll have to run the tests and see what it says.


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## jetcobra

jmbach said:


> How is the 8 TB connected to the Bolt? Is the drive using external power supply or getting the power from the bolt.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


I have the 8TB in a Rosewill sata enclosure running on its own power supply.


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## jmbach

jetcobra said:


> I have the 8TB in a Rosewill sata enclosure running on its own power supply.


Reseat all the connections both on the bolt and the drive.

4 flashing lights usually drive is not detected

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## jetcobra

jmbach said:


> Reseat all the connections both on the bolt and the drive.
> 
> 4 flashing lights usually drive is not detected
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Will do. Thanks


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## jetcobra

I tried reseating the connections and got the same thing. Then I changed the sata cable and the system has booted successfully and showing 992 total hours so is looking good.

It's funny because I used the other cable to check out the cloned drive and also to do mfsadd. I will check out this drive now for a while before adding the last 2TB.

Thank you


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## jetcobra

Finished mfsadd and mfsaddfix and everything is looking good - now showing 1283 HD hours.

Thanks


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## dave_d

Quick question, anybody use YUMI to create a usb boot disk or did you just burn the ISO to CD? Wondering since YUMI doesn't have it listed so I added it as one of the unlisted ones and then tried booting it. When I do I get an error of

failed to find mbr identifier

I did a quick google on that and I think I just used the wrong loader. The ones offered by yumi are
Grub Partition 4
Grub
Grub from Ram
via SYSLinux

Anybody know which one I should use? (I guess I could look to see if I have any old CDRs somewhere. I probably do at the bottom of a box somewhere


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## jmbach

dave_d said:


> Quick question, anybody use YUMI to create a usb boot disk or did you just burn the ISO to CD? Wondering since YUMI doesn't have it listed so I added it as one of the unlisted ones and then tried booting it. When I do I get an error of
> 
> failed to find mbr identifier
> 
> I did a quick google on that and I think I just used the wrong loader. The ones offered by yumi are
> Grub Partition 4
> Grub
> Grub from Ram
> via SYSLinux
> 
> Anybody know which one I should use? (I guess I could look to see if I have any old CDRs somewhere. I probably do at the bottom of a box somewhere


Have you tried using the USB/HDD image?

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## dave_d

jmbach said:


> Have you tried using the USB/HDD image?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


No I was using the ISO. I just downloaded the file from the other post. So basically I just need to get something like etcher to create a boot disk out of that to a usb drive?


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## jmbach

dave_d said:


> No I was using the ISO. I just downloaded the file from the other post. So basically I just need to get something like etcher to create a boot disk out of that to a usb drive?


Yes.

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## dave_d

Quick update. Thanks for the advice jmbach. I have a boot thumb drive and I tried starting the copy which looks like it works. Quick questions for anybody that has done this recently. When I started the copy and let it go for an hour the program basically told me the total copy time is about 18-20 hours. For a copy of a fairly full 3tb drive to a TB drive with mfscopy does that sound about right? Also anybody with WD Red drive does it normally get pretty warm during the copy process? Just figured I'd ask. Pretty much if it's going to take 20 hours or so I'll just wait until the weekend to do the full copy.


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## dave_d

Well I've had some success. I have a usb boot disk and I used mfscopy to copy my 3tb drive to a 10tb one. I checked out the drive and tried to play the newest recording which worked. Then I used the mfsadd and mfsaddfix and checked out the drive by playing the newest recording and repeated this until I maxed out the drive. (So MFSAdd and mfsaddfix were both called 3 times each.) However then when I tried other videos some would give me a popup telling me there was an issue with the recording. I swapped the old drive back in and tried those videos which played fine. Anybody else run into that?


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## HoosontheTeevo

dave-d (search posts in this and mfs3.2 threads - on this for exact procedure, ...) did you run the kickstart 58? - after restarting box when you get first yellow light flicker you press pause then 5 8 on your remote. I was told that you can't run it too late or too much - i did it several times.

also did you put new drive in and start tivo and force a tivo connection to be sure with new drive after each mfsadd mfsaddfix? i did these things on my roamios and both worked flawlessly so far. (however I cloned a 4tb and an 8tb to 12tb drives - didn't do the mfscopy - so that may be part of it). cloning my 4tb with hdd raw copy run on my win 7 machine took 20 hours plus, but cloning my 8tb took 'only' 21 hours using ddrescue run from the mfstools 3.2 bootable thumbdrive on a spare windows pc with other drives disconnected for safety.


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## angra

Greetings all.

This is slightly off topic but may be the best place to ask.

I have a DIY expanded 10TB bolt setup. It recently stopped booting. Sits on "Almost There" forever. I wanted to pull the drive and read the logs to see if I could decipher what's broken. Are there any tools that will allow me to mount partition 9 in an operating linux box? I'd prefer this over a boot disk if possible.


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## ggieseke

angra said:


> Greetings all.
> 
> This is slightly off topic but may be the best place to ask.
> 
> I have a DIY expanded 10TB bolt setup. It recently stopped booting. Sits on "Almost There" forever. I wanted to pull the drive and read the logs to see if I could decipher what's broken. Are there any tools that will allow me to mount partition 9 in an operating linux box? I'd prefer this over a boot disk if possible.


On Bolts, partition 9 is in memory on the motherboard.


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## dave_d

HoosontheTeevo said:


> dave-d (search posts in this and mfs3.2 threads - on this for exact procedure, ...) did you run the kickstart 58? - after restarting box when you get first yellow light flicker you press pause then 5 8 on your remote. I was told that you can't run it too late or too much - i did it several times.
> 
> also did you put new drive in and start tivo and force a tivo connection to be sure with new drive after each mfsadd mfsaddfix? i did these things on my roamios and both worked flawlessly so far. (however I cloned a 4tb and an 8tb to 12tb drives - didn't do the mfscopy - so that may be part of it). cloning my 4tb with hdd raw copy run on my win 7 machine took 20 hours plus, but cloning my 8tb took 'only' 21 hours using ddrescue run from the mfstools 3.2 bootable thumbdrive on a spare windows pc with other drives disconnected for safety.


No, I didn't do kickstart 58, thanks for the heads up I'll give that a shot. Also here's the sequence of what I did

MFSCopy clone 3tb ->10Tb(Completed successfully)
Put 10TB in tivo, booted up tivo and tried playing first video on list.(Videos appeared in list, first video played)
MFSAdd and MFSAddFix (Completed successfully)
Put 10TB in tivo, booted up tivo and tried playing first video on list.(Videos appeared in list, first video played)
MFSAdd and MFSAddFix (Completed successfully)
Put 10TB in tivo, booted up tivo and tried playing first video on list.(Videos appeared in list, first video played)
MFSAdd and MFSAddFix (Completed successfully)
Put 10TB in tivo, booted up tivo and tried playing first video on list.(Videos appeared in list, first video played)
Tried playing second video in list of video.(That failed, I think the error was something about connecting.)

I should ask, is there another step of "connecting" that you have to do in order to complete the process? (Because all I did was plug the 10tb drive in my tivo and start my tivo. After the MFSCopy portion I left my 3tb on my desk.)


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## angra

ggieseke said:


> On Bolts, partition 9 is in memory on the motherboard.


Well, I'm embarrassed to have forgotten this. Is there any known way to debug startup failures on these?


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## jmbach

angra said:


> Well, I'm embarrassed to have forgotten this. Is there any known way to debug startup failures on these?


This is something I have been working on. Have not been very successful so far. This is going to be a hardware hack or a combo hardware/software hack at this time unless someone can figure out a way to examine the internal flash via Ethernet port.

PM me if you want to investigate this further.

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## jmbach

dave_d said:


> No, I didn't do kickstart 58, thanks for the heads up I'll give that a shot. Also here's the sequence of what I did
> 
> MFSCopy clone 3tb ->10Tb(Completed successfully)
> Put 10TB in tivo, booted up tivo and tried playing first video on list.(Videos appeared in list, first video played)
> MFSAdd and MFSAddFix (Completed successfully)
> Put 10TB in tivo, booted up tivo and tried playing first video on list.(Videos appeared in list, first video played)
> MFSAdd and MFSAddFix (Completed successfully)
> Put 10TB in tivo, booted up tivo and tried playing first video on list.(Videos appeared in list, first video played)
> MFSAdd and MFSAddFix (Completed successfully)
> Put 10TB in tivo, booted up tivo and tried playing first video on list.(Videos appeared in list, first video played)
> Tried playing second video in list of video.(That failed, I think the error was something about connecting.)
> 
> I should ask, is there another step of "connecting" that you have to do in order to complete the process? (Because all I did was plug the 10tb drive in my tivo and start my tivo. After the MFSCopy portion I left my 3tb on my desk.)


Sure you were not trying to play a streaming version of the video or one found on another TiVo in your house? I am not sure what connecting error would be other than a network error.

If it is a recorded video, then the issue probably happened at the copy. Try the copy again and try KS 58 on boot up followed by several connections to the TiVo servers and then play several recorded programs.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dave_d

jmbach said:


> Sure you were not trying to play a streaming version of the video or one found on another TiVo in your house? I am not sure what connecting error would be other than a network error.
> 
> If it is a recorded video, then the issue probably happened at the copy. Try the copy again and try KS 58 on boot up followed by several connections to the TiVo servers and then play several recorded programs.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It was actually a couple epsiodes of the same program that the particular TiVo I'm upgrading recorded. (one worked then the next ones didn't.) Anyway sure, I can try the copy again and then try KS 58 on the first boot up before I do anything else. Oh for anybody that's doing 3tb to 10tb like me it took 18 hours to do the mfscopy but the adds were quick, not even a minute. Also I can try what you're suggesting with the way the drive is now and see what happens. I'll try to keep better notes on exactly what I'm seeing though. Thanks again.


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## angra

I am definitely interested, and will follow up with PM. Unfortunately, my physical skills are pretty bad now, so I won't be able to do anything that involves soldering, etc. or any fine detail work.


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## digpower

I successfully upgraded my Roamio Pro to an 8 TB hard drive about a year ago. Overall things seem to work well with the exception of the mobile app. The issue I have is that while using the mobile app (iOS or Android) the Roamio will reboot itself. Needless to say, it has made the app unusable as it will constantly reboot the TiVo box. Has anyone else experienced this issue after upgrading to an 8 TB drive?


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## Scott9mm

Just successfully upgraded my Roamio Plus to 10T (from 3T). Upgrade worked exactly as described in jmbach's post #2. At first online update failed to completely load but kickstart 58 fixed it like jmbach suggested. MANY thanks.


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## JJC4545

Hey guys! I just copied my 1TB to an 8TB with the instructions at the beginning of the thread. The copy went great, tried it in my Roamio Plus and booted just fine. All my recordings and settings came over. It shows 699 HD hours and I should be closer to 1200. So I tried the *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY (Mine is c) and get an invalid argument reading volume header. Any ideas? *


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## jmbach

JJC4545 said:


> Hey guys! I just copied my 1TB to an 8TB with the instructions at the beginning of the thread. The copy went great, tried it in my Roamio Plus and booted just fine. All my recordings and settings came over. It shows 699 HD hours and I should be closer to 1200. So I tried the *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY (Mine is c) and get an invalid argument reading volume header. Any ideas? *


Post a mfsinfo -d output of the drive

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## JJC4545

I finally got it to run. Its having me do a guided setup. Waiting to see the results now. But here is the mfsinfo:


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## jmbach

JJC4545 said:


> I finally got it to run. Its having me do a guided setup. Waiting to see the results now. But here is the mfsinfo:


So at the point you ran mfsinfo and your screen shot, you added a partition pair but you did not run mfsaddfix to move the added partitions. If you put it in the Roamio at that time, it will reformat the drive.

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## JJC4545

I see that now. Thank you. I've restarted the copy. It has about an hour left. We'll see what happens this time doing it correctly!


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## dave_d

jmbach said:


> If it is a recorded video, then the issue probably happened at the copy. Try the copy again and try KS 58 on boot up followed by several connections to the TiVo servers and then play several recorded programs.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks for all the help. The advice about KS 58 was spot on. I didn't need to copy again, I just had to run KS 58 and now I can play all the old videos as well. I did that about a week ago and I've been trying it ever since and it's working like a champ now. So if anybody else does a copy with your tools and then gets an error when trying to play any old videos just run kickstart 58. Thanks a ton.


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## JJC4545

So I've been trying different way to get this 8TB to upgrade my Roamio(TCD848000). I've tried the procedure in the forum with no luck. My second to last attempt, I bought a cloning dock, which worked fine. It booted, connected to TiVo and when I tried to expand it said it was at its Max. But the drive showed as 1.3TB and not 8TB. My last attempt, I wiped the drive, got it to see the full 8TB and then when I plugged it in to the TiVo(as a new drive) it looked okW and connectedIconnected to Tivo. When I went to expand the size, the attached picture shows the error 'zone map checksum error'. I tried to run an mfsinfo and get the same error. Any ideas?


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## jmbach

JJC4545 said:


> So I've been trying different way to get this 8TB to upgrade my Roamio(TCD848000). I've tried the procedure in the forum with no luck. My second to last attempt, I bought a cloning dock, which worked fine. It booted, connected to TiVo and when I tried to expand it said it was at its Max. But the drive showed as 1.3TB and not 8TB. My last attempt, I wiped the drive, got it to see the full 8TB and then when I plugged it in to the TiVo(as a new drive) it looked okW and connectedIconnected to Tivo. When I went to expand the size, the attached picture shows the error 'zone map checksum error'. I tried to run an mfsinfo and get the same error. Any ideas?


So are you trying to save the recordings on your initial Roamio drive?

If you are not, run MFSR on the drive and then put it back in your Roamio. 
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## JJC4545

jmbach said:


> So are you trying to save the recordings on your initial Roamio drive?
> 
> If you are not, run MFSR on the drive and then put it back in your Roamio.
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Preferably yes, but I'm not apposed to creating the 8TB with out and transferring everything later. It seems, so far trying to set it up with my recordings, is not working. Do you have an image for the Roamio Plus(20.7.4b)? Or another solution to get the 8TB working with full capacity?


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## jmbach

JJC4545 said:


> Preferably yes, but I'm not apposed to creating the 8TB with out and transferring everything later. It seems, so far trying to set it up with my recordings, is not working. Do you have an image for the Roamio Plus(20.7.4b)? Or another solution to get the 8TB working with full capacity?


First let's copy the 1 TB to the 8 TB with the command mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/source /dev/target. Then put the 8 TB into the Roamio and let it boot. Make sure you have the correct recording space for 4 TB. Then reboot the drive and run a Kickstart 58 as it boots up. Once it is booted ,check to make sure it will download and load the data correctly from the TiVo servers. Once that is done, let us know here for the next step.

If you run into issues, the more details you can give us about your set up and screenshots of the errors will help troubleshoot.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## JJC4545

jmbach said:


> First let's copy the 1 TB to the 8 TB with the command mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/source /dev/target. Then put the 8 TB into the Roamio and let it boot. Make sure you have the correct recording space for 4 TB. Then reboot the drive and run a Kickstart 58 as it boots up. Once it is booted ,check to make sure it will download and load the data correctly from the TiVo servers. Once that is done, let us know here for the next step.
> 
> If you run into issues, the more details you can give us about your set up and screenshots of the errors will help troubleshoot.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Thank you for this. I just got out of work and tried the mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdc /dev/add I'm getting a Copy source: input/output. Any tricks/ideas?


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## JJC4545

JJC4545 said:


> Thank you for this. I just got out of work and tried the mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdc /dev/add I'm getting a Copy source: input/output. Any tricks/ideas?


Also, both drives are connected via USB adapters. Not sure if that makes a difference.


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## jmbach

JJC4545 said:


> Also, both drives are connected via USB adapters. Not sure if that makes a difference.


If this is a dual dock, swap the drives. If it is two individual adapters, switch the adapters on the drive.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## JJC4545

jmbach said:


> If this is a dual dock, swap the drives. If it is two individual adapters, switch the adapters on the drive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


I have a Western Digital external drive bay, an IDE/SATA to USB adapter and a dual cloning dock. I've tried all three with the same Copy Source Input/output error. Before I tried this I used the cloning dock to do an offline copy and the copy went good. The TiVo saw it, but when I went to expand the volume with mfsadd -xcm 2040, it said it was at its max.


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## jmbach

JJC4545 said:


> I have a Western Digital external drive bay, an IDE/SATA to USB adapter and a dual cloning dock. I've tried all three with the same Copy Source Input/output error. Before I tried this I used the cloning dock to do an offline copy and the copy went good. The TiVo saw it, but when I went to expand the volume with mfsadd -xcm 2040, it said it was at its max.


Post a screenshot of mfsinfo -d on the 1 TB drive.

I would recommend to copy the 1 TB with your cloner to another 1 TB or larger drive. Boot that drive in the Roamio and run a Kickstart 58 on boot up. Then see if mfscopy can copy that drive to the 8TB.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## JJC4545

I'm still getting the input/output error even trying to run mfsinfo -d. Drive is probably on the fritz. So forgetting about the recordings. What is the best way to go about getting the TiVo to see the full capacity of the 8tb as a new drive?


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## jmbach

JJC4545 said:


> I'm still getting the input/output error even trying to run mfsinfo -d. Drive is probably on the fritz. So forgetting about the recordings. What is the best way to go about getting the TiVo to see the full capacity of the 8tb as a new drive?


Go to the MFSR thread and download MFSR. Put the 8 TB into the Roamio and when it get to the guided setup screen, pull the drive and run MFSR on it. Put it back in the Roamio and finish guided setup.

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## jmbach

However, since the recordings don't matter, Kickstart 58 on the 1 TB and see if mfsinfo can see it then. 

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## JJC4545

jmbach said:


> However, since the recordings don't matter, Kickstart 58 on the 1 TB and see if mfsinfo can see it then.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Thank you, will do. I'll let you know soon.


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## JJC4545

The 1tb is toast. It wanted to do a guided setup as soon as it booted. Most of the recordings I moved to my Bolt, in case I had to manually transfer back, so I am safe there. I attached the mfsinfo -d screenshot of the 1tb. The 8tb is seen in full. Screenshot attached of that as well. This was an original 1tb Roamio drive from 2013. It just out lived its life.

Thank you for all of your help! Let me know if there is anything else I can do. For now I'm calling the 1tb a lost cause.


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## Yudoka

Hello everyone. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to expand my new Seagate 6TB drive using this tool. The problem being that I have no idea how to launch the program. 

I downloaded the ISO image from the beginning of this thread and burned it to a CD. I cloned my old 3TB drive to the new one via a cloning dock. I plugged the new drive into the Raomio and it works just fine, just at half capacity. 

I tried plugging the new drive into the source portion of the dock and rebooting my laptop with the ISO disk in the drive. Now I'm stuck as to what to do next. I don't think I'm understanding how to proceed to actually launching MFSTools in order to then start using the commands to expand it.

Thanks for the help!


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## jmbach

Yudoka said:


> Hello everyone. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to expand my new Seagate 6TB drive using this tool. The problem being that I have no idea how to launch the program.
> 
> I downloaded the ISO image from the beginning of this thread and burned it to a CD. I cloned my old 3TB drive to the new one via a cloning dock. I plugged the new drive into the Raomio and it works just fine, just at half capacity.
> 
> I tried plugging the new drive into the source portion of the dock and rebooting my laptop with the ISO disk in the drive. Now I'm stuck as to what to do next. I don't think I'm understanding how to proceed to actually launching MFSTools in order to then start using the commands to expand it.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


Did you read the full post you downloaded the ISO from?

And did you read the post in full with the instructions at the beginning of this thread.

Post a screen shot of where you are stuck at.

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## Yudoka

Thanks for the reply. I went back and reread the two original posts and figured it out! There were several steps that I had to go through in the BIOS to allow booting from the disk.

One question I had is how hot is considered too hot for the drive in the TiVo? When I pulled the new drive out of the TiVo to finish the expansion (its been running since last night), it felt pretty hot. Not too hot to handle by hand, but hot. I've verified that the TiVo fan is working and the unit is dust free. Is that just how drives are that are always running?


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## ECuster

I'm attempting to upgrade a Roamio from a 1TB drive to a 14TB drive. The original drive has had all of the recordings deleted; I don't need to preserve anything from it. I installed the 14TB drive into the Roamio and it booted and created what I believe is a 3TB partition for recordings. Looking at the system info on the Roamio it now states that there is free disk space for 474 HD or 3272 SD hours, which is three times the size of the original 1TB drive. I removed the 14TB drive from the Roamio and attached it to my computer and booted MFSTools, but when I run the mfsinfo command it returns an error "mfsinfo: Zone map checksum error." The mfsadd command also returns the same Zone map error. So what am I doing wrong or do I need to restart and approach the process differently?


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## jmbach

ECuster said:


> I'm attempting to upgrade a Roamio from a 1TB drive to a 14TB drive. The original drive has had all of the recordings deleted; I don't need to preserve anything from it. I installed the 14TB drive into the Roamio and it booted and created what I believe is a 3TB partition for recordings. Looking at the system info on the Roamio it now states that there is free disk space for 474 HD or 3272 SD hours, which is three times the size of the original 1TB drive. I removed the 14TB drive from the Roamio and attached it to my computer and booted MFSTools, but when I run the mfsinfo command it returns an error "mfsinfo: Zone map checksum error." The mfsadd command also returns the same Zone map error. So what am I doing wrong or do I need to restart and approach the process differently?


There are two ways to create the image you desire since you do not desire to retain recordings.

1) Boot the 14 TB drive in the TiVo as you have done. Get the modified version of MFSR from ggieseke that limits the expansion of the image to 8 TB. Run that version on your drive and boot it in your TiVo to male it functional. Then use MFSTools to start adding partitions and mfsaddfix to move them into place. Repeat the process until there is no more space left.

2) Start with the working 1 TB image and use MFSTools to create a 4 TB image on the 14 TB by following the instructions at the beginning of the thread using mfscopy. The use iterations of mfsadd and mfsaddfix until you run out of space.

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## ECuster

jmbach, I ran into some problems with #1 so I ended up following your #2 set of directions. I can't thank you enough for answering my questions and pointing me in the right direction. I now have a working Roamio with a 14TB drive.

Thanks again!


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## TiV0_user

jmbach -
I am in the process of upgrading my Roamio that was upgraded to 6TB using MFSR right after I bought it with lifetime in 2016. Has been great ever since on Comcast with cablecard. Upgrading it to 12TB WD120EDAZ that I shucked from an Easystore external from Bestbuy. Hope this drive is true CMR like other WD Reds from Easystore externals. I followed your recommendation to first do a diagnostic full extended read, then full extended write 0s, followed by another full extended read. This process took several days for the 12TB, but completed each successfully with no errors.
I just completed the cloning step using MFSTools 3.32 with the following dd command:
dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sda bs=4096 conv=sync,noerror
(the original 6TB WD60EFRX is on sdb of course) It took a little over 12 hours since the dd clones the entire 6TB including the unallocated space. Average speed according to dd output was 139MB/s.
Everything looks good on mfsinfo on the cloned /dev/sda. Powering down now and will test cloned drive in the Roamio next to make sure that’s all good before starting the three 2TB expansions back in the PC with mfsadd/mfsfix. 
Thanks 
Jim B


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## jmbach

TiV0_user said:


> jmbach -
> I am in the process of upgrading my Roamio that was upgraded to 6TB using MFSR right after I bought it with lifetime in 2016. Has been great ever since on Comcast with cablecard. Upgrading it to 12TB WD120EDAZ that I shucked from an Easystore external from Bestbuy. Hope this drive is true CMR like other WD Reds from Easystore externals. I followed your recommendation to first do a diagnostic full extended read, then full extended write 0s, followed by another full extended read. This process took several days for the 12TB, but completed each successfully with no errors.
> I just completed the cloning step using MFSTools 3.32 with the following dd command:
> dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sda bs=4096 conv=sync,noerror
> (the original 6TB WD60EFRX is on sdb of course) It took a little over 12 hours since the dd clones the entire 6TB including the unallocated space. Average speed according to dd output was 139MB/s.
> Everything looks good on mfsinfo on the cloned /dev/sda. Powering down now and will test cloned drive in the Roamio next to make sure that's all good before starting the three 2TB expansions back in the PC with mfsadd/mfsfix.
> Thanks
> Jim B


Make sure it connects, downloads, and loads data from the TiVo servers correctly before proceeding.

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## TiV0_user

jmbach-
Another successful 12TB Roamio upgrade, 1927 HD recording hours available. Everything went flawless thanks to your mfsadd and mfsaddfix options in MFSTools 3.32 and instructions in post #2. Output from mfsaddfix each time said that coalesce step was successful, so I guess I could sometime later upgrade again to an 18TB and do three more mfsadd/mfsaddfix after cloning?
Many thanks to you and ggieseke, donation gladly sent to ggieseke paypal link.
Jim B


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## jmbach

TiV0_user said:


> jmbach-
> Another successful 12TB Roamio upgrade, 1927 HD recording hours available. Everything went flawless thanks to your mfsadd and mfsaddfix options in MFSTools 3.32 and instructions in post #2. Output from mfsaddfix each time said that coalesce step was successful, so I guess I could sometime later upgrade again to an 18TB and do three more mfsadd/mfsaddfix after cloning?
> Many thanks to you and ggieseke, donation gladly sent to ggieseke paypal link.
> Jim B


That is the theory. Only time will tell.

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## jeffsinsfo

This admittedly not that tech savvy person is back after several months since the upgraded drive I prepared last December is causing my Roamio to repeatedly reboot (not sure if it's the drive, which ended up being an SMR, or if I did something wrong in the process that is just now showing up after several months). 

At any rate, since I now have recordings on the 6TB drive I want to preserve I cannot do the upgrade as outlined at the beginning of this thread because that only works for drives 4TB or smaller? Instead I should instead use this command to clone the 6TB drive to the new 8TB drive -- dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sda bs=4096 conv=sync,noerror -- assuming sdb is the source and sda is the target? Then I can do the mfsadd/addfix to allocate the additional 2TB on the new hard drive?


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## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> This admittedly not that tech savvy person is back after several months since the upgraded drive I prepared last December is causing my Roamio to repeatedly reboot (not sure if it's the drive, which ended up being an SMR, or if I did something wrong in the process that is just now showing up after several months).
> 
> At any rate, since I now have recordings on the 6TB drive I want to preserve I cannot do the upgrade as outlined at the beginning of this thread because that only works for drives 4TB or smaller? Instead I should instead use this command to clone the 6TB drive to the new 8TB drive -- dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sda bs=4096 conv=sync,noerror -- assuming sdb is the source and sda is the target? Then I can do the mfsadd/addfix to allocate the additional 2TB on the new hard drive?


That should work. Or just use a cloning dock.

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## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> That should work. Or just use a cloning dock.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Thanks. Since I am hoping to do the cloning this holiday weekend I am going to use the computer. I cannot find a local store with a cloning dock in stock and the earliest Amazon can get one to me is Tuesday (which, admittedly, is fast!).


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## jeffsinsfo

The good news is that the cloning finished faster than I expected. Unlike last time, I decided to follow the advice and do this in steps so I simply put the new drive in my Roamio to make sure it worked before proceeding to do the mfsadd/addfix to expand capacity. TiVo powered up. I played a bit of a few shows and they worked fine. I forced a connection and it completed successfully without rebooting in the middle or immediately afterwards. Then I started watching a show for a longer duration; after about two minutes, the picture froze for a few seconds, playback resumed for a few seconds, and then the box rebooted. Frequent reboots are why I am trying to change the drive again so soon, so I assume the problem that brought me here is still with me. For the past 24 hours I have been running the Roamio with the original hard drive and it hasn't rebooted, so I think this issue is hard drive related and not due to some other factor.

I never could get the kickstart 58 to work with the previous replacement hard drive. Maybe I'm just being impatient, but it would just display "Installing an update...This will take a few minutes" on the screen for hours so I would eventually pull the plug to abort the process. I am in the middle of doing a kickstart 58 on this latest cloned drive to see if anything different happens, but so far that's what it is doing as well. Is this what a kickstart 58 displays when it's running. If so, do I just need to let it run longer? 

Could I have done something wrong when preparing the first upgraded hard drive that was replicated on the new hard drive when I cloned it? The only thing I can think of that I didn't do as instructed was pull the drive from the computer after cloning to test in the TiVo, and then put it back in the computer to do one set of mfsadd/addfix and then put it back in the TiVo, and then return it to the computer to do the final mfsadd/addfix. I was lazy and didn't want to do a lot of back-and-forth so I cloned the drive and then did both mfsadd/addfixes back to back without putting the drive in the TiVo to test it in the interim. I also never did successfully complete a kickstart 58.


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## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> The good news is that the cloning finished faster than I expected. Unlike last time, I decided to follow the advice and do this in steps so I simply put the new drive in my Roamio to make sure it worked before proceeding to do the mfsadd/addfix to expand capacity. TiVo powered up. I played a bit of a few shows and they worked fine. I forced a connection and it completed successfully without rebooting in the middle or immediately afterwards. Then I started watching a show for a longer duration; after about two minutes, the picture froze for a few seconds, playback resumed for a few seconds, and then the box rebooted. Frequent reboots are why I am trying to change the drive again so soon, so I assume the problem that brought me here is still with me. For the past 24 hours I have been running the Roamio with the original hard drive and it hasn't rebooted, so I think this issue is hard drive related and not due to some other factor.
> 
> I never could get the kickstart 58 to work with the previous replacement hard drive. Maybe I'm just being impatient, but it would just display "Installing an update...This will take a few minutes" on the screen for hours so I would eventually pull the plug to abort the process. I am in the middle of doing a kickstart 58 on this latest cloned drive to see if anything different happens, but so far that's what it is doing as well. Is this what a kickstart 58 displays when it's running. If so, do I just need to let it run longer?
> 
> Could I have done something wrong when preparing the first upgraded hard drive that was replicated on the new hard drive when I cloned it? The only thing I can think of that I didn't do as instructed was pull the drive from the computer after cloning to test in the TiVo, and then put it back in the computer to do one set of mfsadd/addfix and then put it back in the TiVo, and then return it to the computer to do the final mfsadd/addfix. I was lazy and didn't want to do a lot of back-and-forth so I cloned the drive and then did both mfsadd/addfixes back to back without putting the drive in the TiVo to test it in the interim. I also never did successfully complete a kickstart 58.


If the KS 58 does not finish in 3 hours then it is likely not to finish a all.

What version of the Romario do you have. Does it have and internal or external power supply. If it is external, replace it with one with a little more amperage. (But same everything else.)

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## jeffsinsfo

It's a Roamio Pro, so that means an internal power supply, right?


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## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> It's a Roamio Pro, so that means an internal power supply, right?


Yes.

As an experiment, you could redo the copy from the original working drive to your new drive to see if you have the same problems. I would test a KS 58 on the fresh copy before proceeding to expand it to see if it completes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> Yes.
> 
> As an experiment, you could redo the copy from the original working drive to your new drive to see if you have the same problems. I would test a KS 58 on the fresh copy before proceeding to expand it to see if it completes.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes, I was thinking about doing that in order to (hopefully) have a working TiVo with more hard drive capacity than the original drive (which is about 85% full). Unfortunately during the several months since the upgrade I did, I have recorded a lot of shows that my partner would be very unhappy to lose. And, unfortunately, it doesn't seem possible to even transfer them to my computer or my XL4 since the Roamio reboots quite frequently when it's connected to the internet.


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## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> Yes, I was thinking about doing that in order to (hopefully) have a working TiVo with more hard drive capacity than the original drive (which is about 85% full). Unfortunately during the several months since the upgrade I did, I have recorded a lot of shows that my partner would be very unhappy to lose. And, unfortunately, it doesn't seem possible to even transfer them to my computer or my XL4 since the Roamio reboots quite frequently when it's connected to the internet.


I think if you create a new drive and you find that you are having the same issues, then it might be a power issue.

Alternatively, you can power your current drive with an external power supply and see if you still have the same issues. If they go away, then a power issue. If they do not go away, then it is a copy issue.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> I think if you create a new drive and you find that you are having the same issues, then it might be a power issue.
> 
> Alternatively, you can power your current drive with an external power supply and see if you still have the same issues. If they go away, then a power issue. If they do not go away, then it is a copy issue.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Is there a recommended one for the Roamio Pro? If I go this route, I assume I'll need to get a separate data cable to connect the drive to the motherboard and then connect the external power supply to the drive? I'm pretty sure the power supply board inside the Roamio has a cable where the data and power are attached, but maybe they can be easily separated.


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## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> Is there a recommended one for the Roamio Pro? If I go this route, I assume I'll need to get a separate data cable to connect the drive to the motherboard and then connect the external power supply to the drive? I'm pretty sure the power supply board inside the Roamio has a cable where the data and power are attached, but maybe they can be easily separated.


Yes you will need a separate data cable to connect the drive to the motherboard and then a separate power supply for the drive itself. I bought a universal external USB drive kit that had a separate power supply and USB cable with the ability to attach 2.5 and 3.5 IDE and SATA drives.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> Yes you will need a separate data cable to connect the drive to the motherboard and then a separate power supply for the drive itself. I bought a universal external USB drive kit that had a separate power supply and USB cable with the ability to attach 2.5 and 3.5 IDE and SATA drives.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Something like this?


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## jmbach

Essentially yes. This is what I got.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> Essentially yes. This is what I got.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Thanks.


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## krkaufman

jeffsinsfo said:


> And, unfortunately, it doesn't seem possible to even transfer them to my computer or my XL4 since the Roamio reboots quite frequently when it's connected to the internet.


If you need uninterrupted LAN connectivity to get critical shows copied off the TiVo, one workaround for this would be to see if you can configure your router to block the problematic TiVo from accessing the Internet, via "child safety" or similar access control settings. (i.e. allow LAN access, but not Internet)


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## jeffsinsfo

krkaufman said:


> If you need uninterrupted LAN connectivity to get critical shows copied off the TiVo, one workaround for this would be to see if you can configure your router to block the problematic TiVo from accessing the Internet, via "child safety" or similar access control settings. (i.e. allow LAN access, but not Internet)


Yes, I saw in another thread how someone did that. Unfortunately my router doesn't have the ability to for me to do that. Fortunately I have been up and running for a few hours and transferring shows. I don't know how long this will last, but so far I have been able to transfer about 20 shows to my computer.


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## jeffsinsfo

I'm still struggling with my rebooting Roamio. Using an external power supply for the hard drive did not help. 

Unfortunately it now sometimes takes hours of repeated attempts (and unplugging and replugging in the ethernet cable) to get a successful connection with a spontaneous reboot, so I mostly save that for Saturdays when I have time to do this and I don't have things set to record.

Question: If I try to copy my 6TB drive again to another 8TB drive, but this time use ddrescue instead of mfscopy, am I likely to get a different result if this problem's origin traces back to bad sectors on the 6TB drive?

If not, I may put my old router with better parental controls back in service, transfer everything that I have saved that I truly want that was recorded after I replaced the original 3TB drive, and then clone and expand the original 3TB drive that, right now, is the only drive that's stable in my Roamio.


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## jmbach

jeffsinsfo said:


> I'm still struggling with my rebooting Roamio. Using an external power supply for the hard drive did not help.
> 
> Unfortunately it now sometimes takes hours of repeated attempts (and unplugging and replugging in the ethernet cable) to get a successful connection with a spontaneous reboot, so I mostly save that for Saturdays when I have time to do this and I don't have things set to record.
> 
> Question: If I try to copy my 6TB drive again to another 8TB drive, but this time use ddrescue instead of mfscopy, am I likely to get a different result if this problem's origin traces back to bad sectors on the 6TB drive?
> 
> If not, I may put my old router with better parental controls back in service, transfer everything that I have saved that I truly want that was recorded after I replaced the original 3TB drive, and then clone and expand the original 3TB drive that, right now, is the only drive that's stable in my Roamio.


ddrescue might be able to recover the drive enough to save everything. I would run a KS 58 on the copied drive to see if it can correct and small errors. I would not run it on your problematic drive until you have a good copy.


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## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> ddrescue might be able to recover the drive enough to save everything. I would run a KS 58 on the copied drive to see if it can correct and small errors. I would not run it on your problematic drive until you have a good copy.


Thanks.


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## tommage1

jeffsinsfo said:


> Thanks.


I have the same problem (rebooting when connected to the internet) with a couple of my large drive upgrades. Here is how I am able to transfer recordings to another Tivo.

I assume you are connected with ethernet to both (Roamio and Premiere?) They do need to "see" each other. Which may require a temporary connection to the internet (a Tivo connection). When you power up the Roamio you need to force a connection to Tivo immediately. Watch the process. As SOON as the download completes and it disconnects unplug the ethernet connection (before the load starts). It should then load without rebooting (since no internet). Let that complete. Now plug the ethernet back in. Check to make sure the Tivos can "see" each other. Then disconnect the internet from the router (for me I have DSL so just unplugged the phone cord from the router). So the Tivos should see each other, they are still on the network but no internet. So the Roamio should not reboot, and should be able to transfer recordings.

While in this mode you may want to delete as many recordings as you can off the Roamio (ones you transferred and others you don't need/want). They will go into the recently deleted folder. Then go into the recently deleted folder and PERMANENTLY delete them. The rebooting issue when connected to the net seems to have something to do with how full drives were when clone/copying. If you can get the expanded drive down to less than what the size of the original drive was it MAY help. For example i expanded a nearly full 8TB to a 12TB so when done the 12TB was about 2/3 full (a bit less). The rebooting stared when the 12TB got over 2/3 full. So if you can get the new drive under what the size of the original drive was it may help (in my case under 66%.) Remember you HAVE to permanently delete the items in the recently deleted folder, when the Tivo shows how full the drive is it does NOT count what is in the recently deleted folder. But those shows are still on the drive. So need to get rid of them permanently.


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## jeffsinsfo

tommage1 said:


> I have the same problem (rebooting when connected to the internet) with a couple of my large drive upgrades. Here is how I am able to transfer recordings to another Tivo.
> 
> I assume you are connected with ethernet to both (Roamio and Premiere?) They do need to "see" each other. Which may require a temporary connection to the internet (a Tivo connection). When you power up the Roamio you need to force a connection to Tivo immediately. Watch the process. As SOON as the download completes and it disconnects unplug the ethernet connection (before the load starts). It should then load without rebooting (since no internet). Let that complete. Now plug the ethernet back in. Check to make sure the Tivos can "see" each other. Then disconnect the internet from the router (for me I have DSL so just unplugged the phone cord from the router). So the Tivos should see each other, they are still on the network but no internet. So the Roamio should not reboot, and should be able to transfer recordings.
> 
> While in this mode you may want to delete as many recordings as you can off the Roamio (ones you transferred and others you don't need/want). They will go into the recently deleted folder. Then go into the recently deleted folder and PERMANENTLY delete them. The rebooting issue when connected to the net seems to have something to do with how full drives were when clone/copying. If you can get the expanded drive down to less than what the size of the original drive was it MAY help. For example i expanded a nearly full 8TB to a 12TB so when done the 12TB was about 2/3 full (a bit less). The rebooting stared when the 12TB got over 2/3 full. So if you can get the new drive under what the size of the original drive was it may help (in my case under 66%.) Remember you HAVE to permanently delete the items in the recently deleted folder, when the Tivo shows how full the drive is it does NOT count what is in the recently deleted folder. But those shows are still on the drive. So need to get rid of them permanently.


Thank you for the tip about connecting both TiVos but disconnecting the router's internet connection. I hadn't thought about trying that. As to unplugging the cable on the Roamio as soon as the download finishes but before guide data loads, sometimes that will result in the data loading before a reboot but sometimes the Roamio will reboot before it starts loading the data. Frustratingly, the reboot can happen at any point during the connection, though it most frequently happens during Preparing or Connecting; even at Loading info, though, it might start to load the data at which point it's almost 99% certain the entire process will complete or it will reboot while it's preparing to load data.

My ddrescue copy is about 2 hours away from completion and, at this point, no errors have been detected. I don't have a lot of hope that this new copy will behave any differently than the last one, but since I'm so close to the end of the copy I might as well try it.

I'm leaning towards trying to expand my Premiere XL4's capacity if the Roamio still reboots after this as it seems like I've run out of ideas of how to solve the reboot issue. Then I can leave the Roamio connected to the TV so older shows can be watched but have new recordings on the Premiere. I remember finding the responsiveness of the Premiere frustrating, but I'd rather have a box that will simply work, even if it's slow to respond to commands, versus one where I spend hours every weekend just trying to get it to update guide data.


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## tommage1

jeffsinsfo said:


> As to unplugging the cable on the Roamio as soon as the download finishes but before guide data loads, sometimes that will result in the data loading before a reboot but sometimes the Roamio will reboot before it starts loading the data. Frustratingly, the reboot can happen at any point during the connection


That is true, for me also. Might take a few times. Have to QUICK, power up the Roamio, IMMEDIATELY force connection, then watch the process. Can be a matter of seconds, and that includes the power up and initiating/forcing the connection. I stand there with my hand on the ethernet cable and unplug it as soon as the download and disconnection finish. It can be done, I've done it multiple times.

As for the deleting, you pretty much want to save/transfer what you have recorded SINCE the upgrade correct? And you still have your original drive intact with recordings? So you COULD delete all the recordings on the upgraded drive that are still on the original drive. And like I said, PERMANENTLY delete them from the recently deleted folder too. That may get you to the point where the upgraded drive stops rebooting. Delete as many as you can, could be hundreds, with me over a thousand so still an in process project. Delete and permanently delete maybe 50, try booting, if still getting reboots try another 50 and so on............ As long as you have the original drive should not lose anything.


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## jeffsinsfo

tommage1 said:


> That is true, for me also. Might take a few times. Have to QUICK, power up the Roamio, IMMEDIATELY force connection, then watch the process. Can be a matter of seconds, and that includes the power up and initiating/forcing the connection. I stand there with my hand on the ethernet cable and unplug it as soon as the download and disconnection finish. It can be done, I've done it multiple times.
> 
> As for the deleting, you pretty much want to save/transfer what you have recorded SINCE the upgrade correct? And you still have your original drive intact with recordings? So you COULD delete all the recordings on the upgraded drive that are still on the original drive. And like I said, PERMANENTLY delete them from the recently deleted folder too. That may get you to the point where the upgraded drive stops rebooting. Delete as many as you can, could be hundreds, with me over a thousand so still an in process project. Delete and permanently delete maybe 50, try booting, if still getting reboots try another 50 and so on............ As long as you have the original drive should not lose anything.


Another good idea. If the new (new) copy reboots, I will first try to delete a whole bunch of stuff from before the first clone/upgrade to see if that changes things.


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## tommage1

jeffsinsfo said:


> Another good idea. If the new (new) copy reboots, I will first try to delete a whole bunch of stuff from before the first clone/upgrade to see if that changes things.


There is one other thing you can try, not sure if anyone has done it yet. I assume you are on TE3 on the Roamio (Premiere has to be TE3). With recent updates to TE4 Tivos running TE4 will now format the entire capacity of a drive (well at least up to 12TB). TE3 will not, still limited to 3TB. BUT you could temporarily "sidegrade" your Roamio to TE4 (which will put TE4 on the FLASH dive). Let it format the upgrade drive, should do the entire capacity itself. Now here is the thing I'm not sure anyone has tried yet, "sidegrade" again, back to TE3. Will it work, I don't know. If it does then you have avoided any upgrade software, which may or may not be causing the problem. Of course this would be with a fresh start. And while it is on TE4 DO NOT put in your original drive which is on TE3. Because while it is on TE4 the flash drive will be on TE4 also, don't want to put a TE3 hard drive into a Tivo with TE4 on the flash drive. An interesting experiment regardless, maybe not for you at this time since you want to keep recordings. But if you get all the NEW shows transferred to the Premiere (or computer) and have the original recordings on the original drive you might be able to pull it off. Just remember not to put that original drive in the Roamio while it is on TE4!!!


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## jeffsinsfo

Deleted a bunch of stuff, cleared out deleted folder (except for the several shows I haven't been able to clear out for months), and still no go with the connection. If it were just me, I would easily give up stuff that's been recorded since I did the first upgrade last December and just clone the original hard drive and expand again to see what happens. Unfortunately, my partner loves to save a ton of shows (even though most never get looked at again, as far as I can tell) and acts as if losing this stuff would be a huge disaster. So I think I'm going to cut my losses (of my time) on the Roamio and simply keep it as an unconnected, watch-whatever's-already-on-it device and go back to using my Premiere. I have already copied and expanded its hard drive and am in the midst of trying to pair the cable card.


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## jmacd-tx

tommage1 said:


> There is one other thing you can try, not sure if anyone has done it yet. I assume you are on TE3 on the Roamio (Premiere has to be TE3). With recent updates to TE4 Tivos running TE4 will now format the entire capacity of a drive (well at least up to 12TB). TE3 will not, still limited to 3TB. BUT you could temporarily "sidegrade" your Roamio to TE4 (which will put TE4 on the FLASH dive). Let it format the upgrade drive, should do the entire capacity itself. Now here is the thing I'm not sure anyone has tried yet, "sidegrade" again, back to TE3. Will it work, I don't know. If it does then you have avoided any upgrade software, which may or may not be causing the problem. Of course this would be with a fresh start. And while it is on TE4 DO NOT put in your original drive which is on TE3. Because while it is on TE4 the flash drive will be on TE4 also, don't want to put a TE3 hard drive into a Tivo with TE4 on the flash drive. An interesting experiment regardless, maybe not for you at this time since you want to keep recordings. But if you get all the NEW shows transferred to the Premiere (or computer) and have the original recordings on the original drive you might be able to pull it off. Just remember not to put that original drive in the Roamio while it is on TE4!!!


I tried the "sidegrade" with a WD Red 6TB yesterday in a Bolt+. TE4 formatted full 6TB (960HD Hrs) correctly, but when I downgraded to TE3 only 2TB (251HD Hrs) was available for use. I pulled it and ran it through MFS Reformatter 1004 and was able to get it back to 960HD Hrs. I then bought a 10TB WD Red today. When I formatted in TE3, it only came out to 187HD Hrs and MFS Reformatter wouldn't extend because would need "5 media regions, which isn't supported at this time" and confirms MFS Reformatter is only good to 8TB. I have never run Linux, but now trying to figure out how to run a VM Linux on my Win7 computer so I can try MFSTools.


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## tommage1

jmacd-tx said:


> I tried the "sidegrade" with a WD Red 6TB yesterday in a Bolt+. TE4 formatted full 6TB (960HD Hrs) correctly, but when I downgraded to TE3 only 2TB (251HD Hrs) was available for use. I pulled it and ran it through MFS Reformatter 1004 and was able to get it back to 960HD Hrs. I then bought a 10TB WD Red today. When I formatted in TE3, it only came out to 187HD Hrs and MFS Reformatter wouldn't extend because would need "5 media regions, which isn't supported at this time" and confirms MFS Reformatter is only good to 8TB. I have never run Linux, but now trying to figure out how to run a VM Linux on my Win7 computer so I can try MFSTools.


Thanks for info, you may be the first to do the "full format" on TE4 then roll back to TE3. A shame it did not work "as is" but now we know. Not sure how to run MFST on VM but you can just burn it to a CD and boot from the CD. Or put it on a bootable USB flash drive. Unless you just want to test running MFST on VM for fun. Again great info, thanks for test and post.


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## jmacd-tx

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

As stated in #361 above, I am trying to install externally a new 10TB WD Purple WD102PURZ into a Bolt+. I am not trying to copy the former drive which failed. My "sidgegrade" experiment did not work. I was able to get MFSTools 3.32-devel ISO working on an old laptop.

mfsadd -xm 2048 /dev/sdc results in "Zone map checksum error"
mfsaddfix /dev/sdc results in "Incorrect number of partitions found. Expected 16 and found 14"

It seems like the Bolt+ is doing something different when it formats this new 10TB drive versus when I tried the older 6TB WD Purple (WD 60PURX). Formatting the 6TB drive with TE3 resulted in 251HD hours while formatting the 10TB drive with TE3 resulted in 187HD hours.

When I attach the 10TB drive to MFS machine it reads:
[sdc] 19532873728 512-byte logical blocks: (10.0TB/9.10 TiB)
[sdc] 4096-byte physical blocks

When I attach the 6TB drive that was upgraded with MFS Reformatter and works in Bolt+ to MFS machine it reads:
[sdc] 1465130646 4096-byte logical blocks: (6.00 TB/5.46 TiB)

I have an old 1TB WD drive I could format in TE3 and then use the mfscopy commands with the 10TB drive if necessary.


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## jetcobra

I am upgrading a Bolt to 8TB using this method, however, I did not realize that my previous drive was not 4TB but 3TB, so I began the cloning process using the Sabrent dual dock.

I am already 25% through so my question is "will everything work alright from this stage if I complete the clone?" or " should I stop the offline clone and use MFS Tools 3.32 instead?"

Thanks


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## jmbach

jmacd-tx said:


> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> As stated in #361 above, I am trying to install externally a new 10TB WD Purple WD102PURZ into a Bolt+. I am not trying to copy the former drive which failed. My "sidgegrade" experiment did not work. I was able to get MFSTools 3.32-devel ISO working on an old laptop.
> 
> mfsadd -xm 2048 /dev/sdc results in "Zone map checksum error"
> mfsaddfix /dev/sdc results in "Incorrect number of partitions found. Expected 16 and found 14"
> 
> It seems like the Bolt+ is doing something different when it formats this new 10TB drive versus when I tried the older 6TB WD Purple (WD 60PURX). Formatting the 6TB drive with TE3 resulted in 251HD hours while formatting the 10TB drive with TE3 resulted in 187HD hours.
> 
> When I attach the 10TB drive to MFS machine it reads:
> [sdc] 19532873728 512-byte logical blocks: (10.0TB/9.10 TiB)
> [sdc] 4096-byte physical blocks
> 
> When I attach the 6TB drive that was upgraded with MFS Reformatter and works in Bolt+ to MFS machine it reads:
> [sdc] 1465130646 4096-byte logical blocks: (6.00 TB/5.46 TiB)
> 
> I have an old 1TB WD drive I could format in TE3 and then use the mfscopy commands with the 10TB drive if necessary.


Use your 1 TB and let the bolt format it. Then use mfstools to copy it to your 10 TB drive using the instructions at the beginning of this thread. Leave of the 'a' in the mfscopy command line as there are no recordings to copy over. The copy process will take under 10 minutes. Make sure you boot the copy in the Bolt to make sure it is fully operational. Then proceed with the rest of the steps.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## jmbach

jetcobra said:


> I am upgrading a Bolt to 8TB using this method, however, I did not realize that my previous drive was not 4TB but 3TB, so I began the cloning process using the Sabrent dual dock.
> 
> I am already 25% through so my question is "will everything work alright from this stage if I complete the clone?" or " should I stop the offline clone and use MFS Tools 3.32 instead?"
> 
> Thanks


You should be okay.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## jmacd-tx

jmbach said:


> Use your 1 TB and let the bolt format it. Then use mfstools to copy it to your 10 TB drive using the instructions at the beginning of this thread. Leave of the 'a' in the mfscopy command line as there are no recordings to copy over. The copy process will take under 10 minutes. Make sure you boot the copy in the Bolt to make sure it is fully operational. Then proceed with the rest of the steps.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Thank you very much for your quick response! I had to run bootsectorfix on 1TB drive before it would mfscopy correctly, but otherwise everything worked like a charm. 3 rounds of mfsadd & mfsaddfix and my Bolt+ has 10TB single external drive with 1,604HD hours. All I need is my new right-angle 7-pin sata cable to arrive from Amazon tomorrow and I can close up the case. Of course, now I have to call Frontier FioS to repair my cable card since I can no longer find self-activation page... Anyway, thanks for saving me another night of re-reading all the threads again!


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## jeffsinsfo

I assume the answer is "no," but I thought I would ask:

The 8TB drive I was most recently using in my Roamio is stuck in a green screen of death loop. Is there a way to correct this using this drive? I already know that if I put either the first upgraded 6TB drive or the original 3TB drive in the Roamio that it boots normally. This was caused by me running a Clear Program Information & To Do List as an attempt to resolve the repeated reboots (I read another post where someone claimed this resolved their reboots). After two hours of running, I decided to pull the plug on it but as soon as it restarted it was back to the same screen (I cannot remember exactly what it said while running CPI&TDL). Well, here's where I really went wrong. In another thread, someone suggested that running a Kickstart 57 would resolve this in a matter of minutes. Many hours later was Roamio was still in the green screen loop. I've tried Kickstarts 58 and 52, the former of which does what it has always done for me ("installing an update" screen forever) and the latter which doesn't seem to do anything. Is there any way to resurrect this drive, even if it requires copying it yet again to another had drive?


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## jmbach

You can try using mfsck from MFSTools to mark the drive good and see if it will boot. This has worked sometimes for me as long as the MFS is mostly good.



jkozee said:


> *mfsck*
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Usage: ./mfsck [options] Adrive [Bdrive]
> Options:
> -h Display this help message
> -r Revalidate TiVo partitions on Adrive [Bdrive]
> Available in deprecated/debug build only
> -m [1-5] Set volume header magic to OK, FS_CHK, LOG_CHK, DB_CHK, or CLEAN
> -e [1-3] Set vol_hdr.v64.off0c to 0x00000010, TiVo, or Dish


mfsck -m 1 /dev/sdX

KS 57 always results in a green screen boot loop for me on the Roamios. The only one that works well for me is a KS 58


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## jeffsinsfo

jmbach said:


> You can try using mfsck from MFSTools to mark the drive good and see if it will boot. This has worked sometimes for me as long as the MFS is mostly good.
> 
> mfsck -m 1 /dev/sdX
> 
> KS 57 always results in a green screen boot loop for me on the Roamios. The only one that works well for me is a KS 58


Thanks. That definitely cleared the green screen loop. Now I am back to "clearing guide data & the to do list." I'll just let that run longer this time to see what happens, but I'm pretty sure I didn't pull the plug until the second hour last time.


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## tommage1

Good info for what are rather obscure problems (Tivo gets the blame for this, should be able to run basic Tivo commands like clear and deletes and kickstarts like 57 without breaking things.) I was glad you posted about your KS57 problem, was considering trying a 57 on one of my rebooting when connecting to the net drives, now I will not (well unless you end up solving the reboot problem once you are done with all this)

I got one of my rebooting drives down to 91% full. Ran into same problem as you trying to delete (or restore) some items in the recently deleted folder. They would do neither. But a simple reboot fixed that. I'm still getting reboots when connected to net though, even after getting down to 91% with recently deleted empty. Strange as I used this drive for over a year with no issues until it got close to being full. It's not the drive either, checked it, about 8000 hours now and all blue on test, no errors, no bad sectors, everything is good.

The problem with all my rebooting drives (4 total) started around the same time (almost to the day) right after I recorded some long sporting events. All are used in Roamios running TE3. Two on cable, two OTA. Tivo did something to TE3 that broke some of those clear and delete commands and maybe other things it seems. I wonder if what they did caused this rebooting when connected to the net thing, not sure if TE3 only issue, or only with with really large upgraded drives (mine 8-12TB, did not happen on my 4TB or less drives).


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## jetcobra

Need some help.

I cloned a WD80EDAZ with the 3TB Bolt drive and then attached it to the Bolt and ran it, not realizing that I had forgotten to run mfsaddfix. It asked me to run guided setup so I stupidly did that and then tried to reattach it to MFSTOOLS but now it does not recognize the 8TB drive at all - how do I get MFSTOOLS to recognize it?


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## jeffsinsfo

tommage1 said:


> Good info for what are rather obscure problems (Tivo gets the blame for this, should be able to run basic Tivo commands like clear and deletes and kickstarts like 57 without breaking things.) I was glad you posted about your KS57 problem, was considering trying a 57 on one of my rebooting when connecting to the net drives, now I will not (well unless you end up solving the reboot problem once you are done with all this)
> 
> I got one of my rebooting drives down to 91% full. Ran into same problem as you trying to delete (or restore) some items in the recently deleted folder. They would do neither. But a simple reboot fixed that. I'm still getting reboots when connected to net though, even after getting down to 91% with recently deleted empty. Strange as I used this drive for over a year with no issues until it got close to being full. It's not the drive either, checked it, about 8000 hours now and all blue on test, no errors, no bad sectors, everything is good.
> 
> The problem with all my rebooting drives (4 total) started around the same time (almost to the day) right after I recorded some long sporting events. All are used in Roamios running TE3. Two on cable, two OTA. Tivo did something to TE3 that broke some of those clear and delete commands and maybe other things it seems. I wonder if what they did caused this rebooting when connected to the net thing, not sure if TE3 only issue, or only with with really large upgraded drives (mine 8-12TB, did not happen on my 4TB or less drives).


I agree that it's ridiculous that a command available under a TiVo menu will effectively brick a hard drive. I do fault TiVo for that. And to the extent TiVo's customer service is telling people to run Kickstarts, they also shoulder the blame for those actions breaking things. In my case, however, I did so despite having read some cautions here about KS57 causing an endless loop of green screens, which I chose to ignore because I read how it supposedly quickly fixed boxes that were stuck on a Clear Program Information & To Do List screen. I should add that my box is still stuck on the CPI&TDL screen. I assume that this hard drive is toast unless anyone has a suggestion other than KS57 to get that process to abort.

As to the constant rebooting when networked, I'm of two minds. I initially thought that either I did something wrong when I copied and expanded the original drive or that Western Digital quietly shipping SMR drives without proper labeling was the culprit. I still don't know why my expanded drive constantly reboots, or why the copy of my copy did the same thing until I inflicted the CPI&TDL on it. The original Roamio hard drive doesn't behave 100% flawlessly -- there are occasional reboots even with it installed, though they are fairly rare -- but I can successfully have it connect and load guide data, and I can leave it connected to my network while using it and it's mostly stable. So one could argue that even if TiVo did something that's causing some of our boxes with expanded drives to reboot that that isn't their fault because we modified the equipment.

It's still frustrating, though, especially after nearly two decades of TiVo use that, for at least the first fifteen years or so, was nearly hassle-free for me.


----------



## tommage1

jeffsinsfo said:


> So one could argue that even if TiVo did something that's causing some of our boxes with expanded drives to reboot that that isn't their fault because we modified the equipment.


True enough. A shame though, especially since everything WAS working. As for you doing a KS57 and it breaking, the majority of folks would probably NOT check/see warnings here. They would just try a KS57. And it would break the drive. If KS57 can break a drive it should be disabled by Tivo. IMO.

Perhaps one of these days I will change one of the rebooting Roamios/drives to TE4, see if that solves the problem. But since my other drives 4TB and under work in both not sure when/if I would try that. Even the rebooting drives, I can still watch anything on them, also can transfer anything I want (other than copy protected) to other Tivos. And can keep updated by using the connect to net, then unplug ethernet as soon as the download/disconnection completes.

I did check dates when this all happened. I was running the 8TBs in the OTA and cable Roamios until different times in 2019 (one maybe late 2018). Then I upgraded the 8s to a 10 in the cable, a 12 in the OTA. Both worked for decent amount of time (one over a year), until early 2020. Then that one day both broke, day of the Super Bowl I think or within a few days of that. As I mentioned I have put the 8TBs back in but THEY both have rebooting issues too, did not when I pulled for the upgrade. So my GUESS would be Tivo did some sort of TE3 update around the time of the Super Bowl 2020. Wonder if that's when the clear and delete problems started also. Just interesting, at least to me, doubt we will ever see any "fix" especially if TE3 problem.


----------



## jeffsinsfo

I did my upgrade in early December 2019. It worked well until my power was shut off unexpected by PG&E due to an overloaded grid. The Roamio booted back up and everything else seemed fine (and my important stuff is plugged into a high quality surge protector), but I'm pretty sure my failed connections and reboots started around that time. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not. 

I also thought about trying an update to TE4 to see if that resolved the issue but (a) I didn't want to be on TE4 and didn't want to lose my recordings if I decided to roll back to TE3 and (b) I didn't think it would actually resolve the issue. Still, if you have a box on which you don't have recordings you mind losing it would be an interesting experiment.


----------



## jmbach

jetcobra said:


> Need some help.
> 
> I cloned a WD80EDAZ with the 3TB Bolt drive and then attached it to the Bolt and ran it, not realizing that I had forgotten to run mfsaddfix. It asked me to run guided setup so I stupidly did that and then tried to reattach it to MFSTOOLS but now it does not recognize the 8TB drive at all - how do I get MFSTOOLS to recognize it?


Does mfsinfo read the drive or does it give an error. If it gives an error, what is it.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## jlin

I've previously upgraded from 6TB to 10TB on my Roamio Tivo

Can I use the same method to go from 10TB to 14TB? Bestbuy is going to have another $189 sale on the 14TB drive.


----------



## jmbach

jlin said:


> I've previously upgraded from 6TB to 10TB on my Roamio Tivo
> 
> Can I use the same method to go from 10TB to 14TB? Bestbuy is going to have another $189 sale on the 14TB drive.


Maybe. Post the mfsinfo -d output of the drive.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## jetcobra

jmbach said:


> Does mfsinfo read the drive or does it give an error. If it gives an error, what is it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


I ran lsblk and got only the primary drive for my PC - no indication of the 8TB. Is there a mfsinfo command to run?


----------



## jmbach

If lsblk or fdisk does not see it, then it is not attached, powered on, or dead. mfstools can only see it if the OS sees it. Since the OS commands do not see it, neither will mfstools.


----------



## jetcobra

jmbach said:


> If lsblk or fdisk does not see it, then it is not attached, powered on, or dead. mfstools can only see it if the OS sees it. Since the OS commands do not see it, neither will mfstools.


It's definitely powered on and it does work in the Bolt equal to the original 3TB HDD so what else can I try in order to communicate with it? The 3TB HDD is recognized by lsblk.


----------



## jmbach

jetcobra said:


> It's definitely powered on and it does work in the Bolt equal to the original 3TB HDD so what else can I try in order to communicate with it? The 3TB HDD is recognized by lsblk.


How do you have it connected to the computer?


----------



## jetcobra

jmbach said:


> How do you have it connected to the computer?


sata cable and it is powered by its Sabrent enclosure.


----------



## jmbach

jetcobra said:


> sata cable and it is powered by its Sabrent enclosure.


I have had some issues with dual docks that occasionally will recognize only one drive when two are plugged in. This is usually a USB connection as there are very few SATA ports that support multidrive configurations via a single connection.

You say the 3 TB is recognized. Was it hooked up exactly the same way?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## jetcobra

jmbach said:


> I have had some issues with dual docks that occasionally will recognize only one drive when two are plugged in. This is usually a USB connection as there are very few SATA ports that support multidrive configurations via a single connection.
> 
> You say the 3 TB is recognized. Was it hooked up exactly the same way?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


It was recognized and was hooked up the same way. After my original screwup with mfsaddfix, I cloned the 3TB to the 8TB again and that is when I could not get the 8TB to be recognized. Could the original clone that had several recordings be causing this problem?


----------



## jetcobra

I just tried to use the 3TB to boot the Bolt and it just keeps rebooting even after I did a Kickstart 58. It worked fine before and I have not changed anything on the 3TB. What do you think the problem may be?


----------



## jmbach

jetcobra said:


> I just tried to use the 3TB to boot the Bolt and it just keeps rebooting even after I did a Kickstart 58. It worked fine before and I have not changed anything on the 3TB. What do you think the problem may be?


Run mfsinfo -d on the drive and post the output.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## tommage1

jetcobra said:


> I ran lsblk and got only the primary drive for my PC - no indication of the 8TB.


So is this the 8TB shucked from a current Easystore? As you may know in the past some of the EZAZ models from Easystores had an issue with that 3.3v connection. Perhaps WD did the same thing with EDAZs in current Easystores? Computer may or may not recognize depending on what BIOS, how hooked up etc. There was a fix for this, taping or an adapter, but even then some did not work. Might be able to research a bit, check this, even though it's about EZAZ if WD did the same thing to EDAZ maybe helpful.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/hjb5bt


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## tommage1

jetcobra said:


> I just tried to use the 3TB to boot the Bolt and it just keeps rebooting even after I did a Kickstart 58. It worked fine before and I have not changed anything on the 3TB. What do you think the problem may be?


Well since it's a Bolt and you did swap in the 8TB for awhile may have messed up the flash drive so the 3TB no longer works. Can't just swap drives around with Bolts  Maybe once Jmbach sees your mfsinfo he can help. Possible may have to start from scratch, totally (ie blank the 8TB, put in Tivo, if TE3 would have to run MFSR, if TE4 should format itself.) Whatever is on the 3TB would be lost, even if you do nothing to it The 3.3v pin thing does not affect the drive when used in a Tivo, far as I know, I have some that would not recognize with some connections to computer but they did work fine in the Tivos. Unless WD modified something else more recently.


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## tommage1

jetcobra said:


> I just tried to use the 3TB to boot the Bolt and it just keeps rebooting even after I did a Kickstart 58. It worked fine before and I have not changed anything on the 3TB. What do you think the problem may be?


If you can't get the computer/MFST to recognize the 8TB there is one other thing you could try. Put the 8TB back in the WD enclosure it came in. Perhaps then the computer and MFST would be able to see it. You could try the adds/fixes you didn't do the first time. Not sure how it would go though since been swapping drives around in a Bolt, whenever you do it most likely alters the flash drive.


----------



## jetcobra

jmbach said:


> Run mfsinfo -d on the drive and post the output.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk











Ran mfsinfo on the 3TB and here is what I got.


----------



## njweb

Thanks to jmbach for posting this great guide and to ggieseke (of mfsr fame) for pointing me to jmbach's thread (this one) for MY situation.

Steps (the way I see it) using mfscopy method for* MY particular scenario ** . This is based on copying steps from the post by jmbach in the above 'DIY 10TB Roamio' thread and then editing it with my specifics *(credit to jmbach for the method and steps).*

I have a Roamio (Series 5) with a 3 TB HDD filled with recordings I want to keep.
I want to upgrade my Roamio to 8 TB and retain the 3 TB of recordings (bought 8TB WD Easy Store HDD today which I will shuck).

* My scenario is *to copy my entire 3 TB HDD (incl. my TiVO recordings) to my 8TB HDD and then install the 8 TB drive in my Roamio*:
Steps the way I see it (correct me if I am wrong - would be great if someone could verify these steps):
1) Remove my current 3TB HDD (which contains all my TiVO recordings) from my Roamio.

2) Download the following disc image (there are 3 in the post): _MFSTools 3.32-devel ISO
Live ISO. md5 hash for ISO: 378e9d1b439d221ba4aafb2b9074d556_

3) Hook up both the old 3 TB Roamio HDD and the new blank unformatted 8 TB HDD to one of my computers.

4) Boot the computer up with the MFSTools 3.32 image (specific one above, right?), using username *root* with password *tivo*

5) Run the following command at the command line; this is to determine the names of my drives: *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*
sdX is my source drive and sdY is my target drive.
_
6) Run the command *mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then wait about 5 - 6 hours I reckon for 3 TB of data to copy from 3TB to 8TB HDD at ~100 MBps).
sdX is my source drive and sdY is my target drive._

7) Once that command is finished, put the 8 TB (target drive) into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.

8) Once that is done, return the drive to the computer. Will still use sd*Y* for the target drive.

9) Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.

10) Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY (to *add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order to allow them to be coalesced when moved). As noted by jmbach if there is less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space I have left to add recording time.

11) Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.

*12) (is this correct too Repeat step 10 (mfsadd) and step 11 (mfsaddfix) (2 more times?) till I get to my total of 8 TB of space, right?*

13) Install 8 TB drive back in Roamio...
*
Hope I understood it all and captured all the right steps above?*
Thanks in advance for any corrections or additional tips / guidance!


----------



## jetcobra

tommage1 said:


> If you can't get the computer/MFST to recognize the 8TB there is one other thing you could try. Put the 8TB back in the WD enclosure it came in. Perhaps then the computer and MFST would be able to see it. You could try the adds/fixes you didn't do the first time. Not sure how it would go though since been swapping drives around in a Bolt, whenever you do it most likely alters the flash drive.


Thanks tommage1.
Put the 8TB back in the WD enclosure and was able to get Device Manager to see it - so reformatted it, put it in the Bolt and powered up to the guided setup screen, stopped and then ran MFSR successfully and then back into the Bolt and now have 1283 HD hours.

Thanks jmbach and tommage1 for all the help. I still need to figure what is going on with the 3TB - will let you know when I find out.


----------



## tommage1

jetcobra said:


> Thanks tommage1.
> Put the 8TB back in the WD enclosure and was able to get Device Manager to see it - so reformatted it, put it in the Bolt and powered up to the guided setup screen, stopped and then ran MFSR successfully and then back into the Bolt and now have 1283 HD hours.
> 
> Thanks jmbach and tommage1 for all the help. I still need to figure what is going on with the 3TB - will let you know when I find out.


Good show  I would just leave the 3TB alone (keep it for another purpose or whatever). Since the 8TB is up and working you DON'T want to remove it and put in the 3TB. You have lost access to whatever was on the 3TB when you setup the 8TB, now the flash drive in the Bolt is expecting to see the 8TB when powering up, anything else will cause problems again.


----------



## jetcobra

tommage1 said:


> Good show  I would just leave the 3TB alone (keep it for another purpose or whatever). Since the 8TB is up and working you DON'T want to remove it and put in the 3TB. You have lost access to whatever was on the 3TB when you setup the 8TB, now the flash drive in the Bolt is expecting to see the 8TB when powering up, anything else will cause problems again.


Yes, no more fooling with the 3TB in the Bolt, but I would like to have it as a potential backup so I will try the same thing that I did to recover the 8TB (use the USB electronics from the enclosure).

My only problem with the Bolt was losing the cablecard pairing and I could not get Suddenlink to work with me on the phone so their tech is coming tomorrow to fix it.

Thanks again.


----------



## tommage1

jetcobra said:


> Yes, no more fooling with the 3TB in the Bolt, but I would like to have it as a potential backup so I will try the same thing that I did to recover the 8TB (use the USB electronics from the enclosure).


Would not matter. Since there is nothing on it of any value at this point just format it (maybe that is what you mean/intend putting it in the WD enclosure.) Then could use for a fresh install in any Tivo really (assuming drive is good.) But you should not even have to put it in the WD enclosure, it's a retail drive not a shuck, should be able to hook up to computer any way you like. There is no way to keep an actual backup drive for a Bolt due to the map being on the flash drive. The flash drive will always have the map to the drive that is currently in there (for you the 8TB at this time).


----------



## njweb

Hi jmbach / Others who have performed the upgrade,

Not sure if you saw my post last night.
I outlined the steps, using your steps and then tweaking the steps slightly / adding comments to capture my understanding of what is required in my specific case.
If you have a few minutes, would appreciate it if would not mind reviewing the steps I captured and letting me know if I am on the right track?

Thanks a lot!

Here is my post:
DIY 10TB Roamio


----------



## jmbach

njweb said:


> Thanks to jmbach for posting this great guide and to ggieseke (of mfsr fame) for pointing me to jmbach's thread (this one) for MY situation.
> 
> Steps (the way I see it) using mfscopy method for* MY particular scenario ** . This is based on copying steps from the post by jmbach in the above 'DIY 10TB Roamio' thread and then editing it with my specifics *(credit to jmbach for the method and steps).*
> 
> I have a Roamio (Series 5) with a 3 TB HDD filled with recordings I want to keep.
> I want to upgrade my Roamio to 8 TB and retain the 3 TB of recordings (bought 8TB WD Easy Store HDD today which I will shuck).
> 
> * My scenario is *to copy my entire 3 TB HDD (incl. my TiVO recordings) to my 8TB HDD and then install the 8 TB drive in my Roamio*:
> Steps the way I see it (correct me if I am wrong - would be great if someone could verify these steps):
> 1) Remove my current 3TB HDD (which contains all my TiVO recordings) from my Roamio.
> 
> 2) Download the following disc image (there are 3 in the post): _MFSTools 3.32-devel ISO
> Live ISO. md5 hash for ISO: 378e9d1b439d221ba4aafb2b9074d556_
> 
> 3) Hook up both the old 3 TB Roamio HDD and the new blank unformatted 8 TB HDD to one of my computers.
> 
> 4) Boot the computer up with the MFSTools 3.32 image (specific one above, right?), using username *root* with password *tivo*
> 
> 5) Run the following command at the command line; this is to determine the names of my drives: *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*
> sdX is my source drive and sdY is my target drive.
> _
> 6) Run the command *mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then wait about 5 - 6 hours I reckon for 3 TB of data to copy from 3TB to 8TB HDD at ~100 MBps).
> sdX is my source drive and sdY is my target drive._
> 
> 7) Once that command is finished, put the 8 TB (target drive) into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.
> 
> 8) Once that is done, return the drive to the computer. Will still use sd*Y* for the target drive.
> 
> 9) Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.
> 
> 10) Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY (to *add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order to allow them to be coalesced when moved). As noted by jmbach if there is less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space I have left to add recording time.
> 
> 11) Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.
> 
> *12) (is this correct too Repeat step 10 (mfsadd) and step 11 (mfsaddfix) (2 more times?) till I get to my total of 8 TB of space, right?*
> 
> 13) Install 8 TB drive back in Roamio...
> *
> Hope I understood it all and captured all the right steps above?*
> Thanks in advance for any corrections or additional tips / guidance!


Essentially correct. A couple of things

Recommend doing a diagnostic read write read to certify the drive.

For 8 TB, you only need to do two mfsadd/mfsaddfix iterations after the mfscopy command.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


----------



## njweb

jmbach said:


> Essentially correct. A couple of things
> 
> Recommend doing a diagnostic read write read to certify the drive.
> 
> For 8 TB, you only need to do two mfsadd/mfsaddfix iterations after the mfscopy command.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Great, thanks for reviewing and for the confirmation! Appreciate it. Right, I forgot to count the first mfsadd that I had already captured above.
I assume formatting of the brand new (unused) 8 TB HDD (it is a WD EasyStore) is not needed before running the mfscopy command, correct?


----------



## jmbach

njweb said:


> Great, thanks for reviewing and for the confirmation! Appreciate it.
> I assume formatting of the brand new (unused) 8 TB HDD (it is a WD EasyStore) is not needed before running the mfscopy command, correct?


Don't need to format it just run it through WD diagnostics.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


----------



## njweb

jmbach said:


> Don't need to format it just run it through WD diagnostics.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Perfect, thanks! Will do. 
Just waiting for my second SATA to USB 3.0 adapter to arrive today. May try to do part or all of the process tonight, if time permits... May also split it into sections (assuming I do it on a weekday).

This is the one I am using, in case anyone in the same boat is looking for a reliable one (it is truly plug and play):
UGREEN SATA to USB 3.0 Adapter Cable for 3.5/2.5 Inch SSD HDD SATA III Hard Drive Disk.


----------



## njweb

I had mentioned that I would use the 'devel ISO' version (i.e. disc image) of MFSTools.

However given that I do not have a CD / DVD / BD drive in my laptop (I only have external USB CD / DVD / BD drives and not sure the ISO will boot off an image on a disc in an external USB CD / DVD / BDR drive).
So I guess, in my case, I need to use the 'USB / HD' version of MFSTools (below), and not the ISO version, so I can make a bootable flash drive with MFSTools on it and hook that up to my laptop.
MFSTools 3.32-devel USB/HD
*
EDIT - Think I found the confirmation in an earlier post from jmbach in 2019 for someone else in the same boat Windows PC with no CD / DVD drive:*
MFS Tools 3.2

[jbmach wrote]:

_Download the USB/HDD image from my much earlier post in this thread._
_Then get a program called HDD Raw Copy Tool (Google it. Comes from HDD Guru site)_
_Using 7zip unzip the USB image you downloaded until you have the raw extension._
_Put in your USB drive. I believe a 1 gig drive should be fine._
_Use HDD Raw Copy Tool to copy the file with the raw extension to the use drive. (You might have to rename the raw extension to img for the program to see it.)_
_If all goes well, you should be able to boot off of the USB drive. You might have to disable UEFI booting in the bios of your computer if it does not boot the first time."_
END QUOTE.


----------



## njweb

Okay, been busy, but today I plan to get this started by performing the mfscopy steps noted in my earlier post.
I created the MFS Tools 3.32 bootable flash drive using above steps.
As a test, I booted MFS Tools on an old laptop and it seemed to have issues or it was taking longer than I expected on the first try, so I restarted the PC and booted (default option - there were two flavors) MFSTools 3.32 again and this time I saw less 'errors' along the way and it successfully ended up at the command prompt.

My question is as follows:
When I am done with the last mfsaddfix command, *BEFORE shutting down my PC do I need to unmount the drives by typing the below command in red?*
I want to avoid HDD corruption / issues.

*Backup, Upgrade, Add, or Replace TiVo drive using MFSTools - DVRpedia*
_How to Shut down the PC
Type the following commands to unmount all drives and reboot.

umount -f -a -r

Then press *CTRL+ALT+DEL* to begin the shutdown process. Turn off the computer as soon as it is finished shutting down and starts to reboot._


----------



## paulterzian

jmbach said:


> These are the instructions to create an internal drive larger than 4 TB and keep all your recordings. Current max drive sizes are 16 TB for a completely MFSTools created drive and 20 TB for an 8 TB MFSR created drive. Please read it in its entirety before doing anything. Also note this has only been verified to work on the Encore (TE3) interface. It should work on the Hydra/Mira (TE4) interface but no guarantees at this time.
> 
> I have not examined Weaknees drives so I cannot comment if this will work on those drives. It should work on MFSR created drives based on my conversations with ggeseike the creator of MFSR.
> 
> First download the latest MFSTools image from this post.
> 
> If your drive is larger than 4 TB, clone it to the new drive via your favorite cloning method and skip the mfscopy part of the instructions which I put in italics. If it is less than 4 TB then use MFSTools to copy it to the new drive. This will create a 4 TB image on your new drive with all your settings and recordings intact. A 4 TB image can use either method. Cloning is typically faster if you are retaining the recordings. If you do not care to retain the recordings, MFSTools is faster. (Just leave the 'a' off the command line)
> 
> Boot the MFSTools image with your drives hooked up to your computer.
> 
> Once logged into the MFSTools image using username *root* with password *tivo*, determine what the names of your drives are. Easiest way is to type *lsblk -o name,size,vendor* at the command line.
> 
> Here sdX is your source drive and sdY is your target drive.
> _Run the command *mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then patiently wait. _
> 
> Once that command is finished or the cloning of your drive is finished, put the target drive into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.
> 
> Once that is done, return the drive to your computer. Your source drive is no longer needed and can to be disconnected from the computer. Will still use sdY for the target drive.
> 
> Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.
> 
> Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY*.
> 
> This will add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order to allow them to be coalesced when moved. If you have less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space you have left to add recording time.
> 
> Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.
> 
> This will move the added partition pair to a lowered numbered partition that TiVo now uses as a placeholder to keep the partitions aligned between the internal flash drive and hard drive. It will also coalesce the added pair if appropriate.
> 
> When that command is finished, I recommend that you verify it boots up in your TiVo successfully before repeating the commands to be on the safe side, however, it has worked without doing so.
> 
> Each mfsadd command followed by mfsaddfix command adds 2 TB of recording space to the drive and you can do that up to 3 times if that added partitions are not able to be coalesced and up to 6 times if all the added partitions are able to be coalesced. So repeat those two command until you have run out of space or have used up all the available open placeholder partitions.
> 
> If you happen to add more partitions than is available to move, mfsaddfix will reset the APM to remove the added partitions. Then when you put the drive back into the TiVo, it will ask that you divorce the external drive. Go ahead and do so. On rare occasions I have experienced a green screen boot loop when this has happened.
> 
> If you are experiencing any issues after the process, run a kickstart 58 on boot up. Some people are experiencing connection issues such that the connection does not complete and this seems to resolve it. I would stay away from kickstart 57 as I invariably get a green screen boot loop. MFSTools can help you recover from this in most circumstances.
> 
> *There are no warranties or guarantees with these images and I take no responsibility for anything that happens using these images or loss of recordings that could happen by using these tools. You are logged in as root so you could do dangerous things to your system if you are not careful. Be aware that TiVo could change their OS in the future that may cause loss of recordings because of the drive being expanded. If there are any issues with these files let me know and I will see what I can do.*





jmbach said:


> These are the instructions to create an internal drive larger than 4 TB and keep all your recordings. Current max drive sizes are 16 TB for a completely MFSTools created drive and 20 TB for an 8 TB MFSR created drive. Please read it in its entirety before doing anything. Also note this has only been verified to work on the Encore (TE3) interface. It should work on the Hydra/Mira (TE4) interface but no guarantees at this time.
> 
> I have not examined Weaknees drives so I cannot comment if this will work on those drives. It should work on MFSR created drives based on my conversations with ggeseike the creator of MFSR.
> 
> First download the latest MFSTools image from this post.
> 
> If your drive is larger than 4 TB, clone it to the new drive via your favorite cloning method and skip the mfscopy part of the instructions which I put in italics. If it is less than 4 TB then use MFSTools to copy it to the new drive. This will create a 4 TB image on your new drive with all your settings and recordings intact. A 4 TB image can use either method. Cloning is typically faster if you are retaining the recordings. If you do not care to retain the recordings, MFSTools is faster. (Just leave the 'a' off the command line)
> 
> Boot the MFSTools image with your drives hooked up to your computer.
> 
> Once logged into the MFSTools image using username *root* with password *tivo*, determine what the names of your drives are. Easiest way is to type *lsblk -o name,size,vendor* at the command line.
> 
> Here sdX is your source drive and sdY is your target drive.
> _Run the command *mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY *and then patiently wait. _
> 
> Once that command is finished or the cloning of your drive is finished, put the target drive into the TiVo and make sure it boots up properly and make sure it connects to TiVo successfully.
> 
> Once that is done, return the drive to your computer. Your source drive is no longer needed and can to be disconnected from the computer. Will still use sdY for the target drive.
> 
> Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.
> 
> Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY*.
> 
> This will add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order to allow them to be coalesced when moved. If you have less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space you have left to add recording time.
> 
> Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.
> 
> This will move the added partition pair to a lowered numbered partition that TiVo now uses as a placeholder to keep the partitions aligned between the internal flash drive and hard drive. It will also coalesce the added pair if appropriate.
> 
> When that command is finished, I recommend that you verify it boots up in your TiVo successfully before repeating the commands to be on the safe side, however, it has worked without doing so.
> 
> Each mfsadd command followed by mfsaddfix command adds 2 TB of recording space to the drive and you can do that up to 3 times if that added partitions are not able to be coalesced and up to 6 times if all the added partitions are able to be coalesced. So repeat those two command until you have run out of space or have used up all the available open placeholder partitions.
> 
> If you happen to add more partitions than is available to move, mfsaddfix will reset the APM to remove the added partitions. Then when you put the drive back into the TiVo, it will ask that you divorce the external drive. Go ahead and do so. On rare occasions I have experienced a green screen boot loop when this has happened.
> 
> If you are experiencing any issues after the process, run a kickstart 58 on boot up. Some people are experiencing connection issues such that the connection does not complete and this seems to resolve it. I would stay away from kickstart 57 as I invariably get a green screen boot loop. MFSTools can help you recover from this in most circumstances.
> 
> *There are no warranties or guarantees with these images and I take no responsibility for anything that happens using these images or loss of recordings that could happen by using these tools. You are logged in as root so you could do dangerous things to your system if you are not careful. Be aware that TiVo could change their OS in the future that may cause loss of recordings because of the drive being expanded. If there are any issues with these files let me know and I will see what I can do.*


----------



## paulterzian

Hi. You are Truly Awesome for being the guy on this. I have a couple of quick questions if you have the time to respond.

1) I use WD Drives in general and assume that Red is the way to go, unless you believe Purple is a better option. If it is Red, does it make a difference if I go with Plus or Pro? I guess the Plus maxes out at 14TB and I was hoping to expand to 16 (though it would be a from scratch MFST setup. Better yet... WHICH Drive would you recommend?

2) Which is the best (quickest throughput) way to connect the 2 drives to my Windows 10 Pro Desktop machine? I would gladly buy whatever it takes. I have a couple of SATA to USB 3.0 cables I use for cloning in-place internal hard drives to Samsung SSDs through USB. Would those work or is there something better/faster/more dependable? 

Thank you Very Much in advance. Paul


----------



## jmbach

njweb said:


> Okay, been busy, but today I plan to get this started by performing the mfscopy steps noted in my earlier post.
> I created the MFS Tools 3.32 bootable flash drive using above steps.
> As a test, I booted MFS Tools on an old laptop and it seemed to have issues or it was taking longer than I expected on the first try, so I restarted the PC and booted (default option - there were two flavors) MFSTools 3.32 again and this time I saw less 'errors' along the way and it successfully ended up at the command prompt.
> 
> My question is as follows:
> When I am done with the last mfsaddfix command, *BEFORE shutting down my PC do I need to unmount the drives by typing the below command in red?*
> I want to avoid HDD corruption / issues.
> 
> *Backup, Upgrade, Add, or Replace TiVo drive using MFSTools - DVRpedia*
> _How to Shut down the PC
> Type the following commands to unmount all drives and reboot.
> 
> umount -f -a -r
> 
> Then press *CTRL+ALT+DEL* to begin the shutdown process. Turn off the computer as soon as it is finished shutting down and starts to reboot._


When you shut down the system, the drives are automatically unmounted. Just shut it down and power off and you will be fine. (Sorry for late reply)


----------



## jmbach

paulterzian said:


> Hi. You are Truly Awesome for being the guy on this. I have a couple of quick questions if you have the time to respond.
> 
> 1) I use WD Drives in general and assume that Red is the way to go, unless you believe Purple is a better option. If it is Red, does it make a difference if I go with Plus or Pro? I guess the Plus maxes out at 14TB and I was hoping to expand to 16 (though it would be a from scratch MFST setup. Better yet... WHICH Drive would you recommend?
> 
> 2) Which is the best (quickest throughput) way to connect the 2 drives to my Windows 10 Pro Desktop machine? I would gladly buy whatever it takes. I have a couple of SATA to USB 3.0 cables I use for cloning in-place internal hard drives to Samsung SSDs through USB. Would those work or is there something better/faster/more dependable?
> 
> Thank you Very Much in advance. Paul


I like the non-pro RED drives. The Pro Red drives are 7200 rpm and increases the heat inside the case. However if you are going to externalize the drive, it would not matter. I tend to buy the EasyStore drives when they are on a deep sale and shuck the case. Purple Drives work well for many people as well. Main thing is to get CMR drives and not SMR drives. I believe that the sizes you are looking at are all CMR.

Those cables should be fine for creating the image on the drive.

What TiVo unit are you working on? Are you planning to save any recordings?

Tho


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> I like the non-pro RED drives. The Pro Red drives are 7200 rpm and increases the heat inside the case. However if you are going to externalize the drive, it would not matter. I tend to buy the EasyStore drives when they are on a deep sale and shuck the case. Purple Drives work well for many people as well. Main thing is to get CMR drives and not SMR drives. I believe that the sizes you are looking at are all CMR.


Why do you prefer the Red over Purple? It may be a moot point anyway as I THINK 8-14TB Red Plus, Red Pro, Purple and the white label shucks are all Ultrastar DC HC500 series drives anyway. With different firmwares and some toned down to 5400RPM from 7200RPM. I could be wrong, but I posted about that and no one corrected me. If you look at pictures of the labels for the same capacity drives for all those series they have the exact same R/N number. Found that out when I was trying to determine what drive a 14TB shuck from an Easystore was. Far as I could tell the 8-14TB are all Ultrastar HC 500 series.

My question about the 5400 model drives, if they really are 7200RPM perhaps toned down to 5400 is that the same as using a 5400 RPM drive that was designed as 5400 RPM? I saw a quote from someone about these drives, something like "all the minuses of a 7200 RPM drive without the benefits". Another moot point though if I am right that all WD 8TB and up specialty firmware drives are HC DC500 series as that would be all you can get. Just FYI I specifically compared the 14TB since I bought a couple Easystores when they were on sale BF. R/N number for the Ultrastars, the Red Pro, the Red Plus, the Purple and the white label shuck are all R/N US7SAP140. And someone who bought a Red Plus 8TB which is supposedly 5400RPM is very upset, checked the spec sheet for that model, it specifically says "actual spindle speed is 7200RPM though device ID may report 5400 to reflect previous performance class designation". Footnote 9. True for all the Red Plus 8-14TB.

WD Red Plus NAS Hard Drives (wdc.com)

Finally, why I prefer Purple to any Red model. For a Tivo user. If all things pretty much equal (such as price), if you ever need to contact WD for support I think they would be more helpful if someone was using an AV firmware drive in an AV device (Tivo). If using any of the Red models they could just say "that's a NAS drive, not meant for use in an AV device, you need a Purple". Maybe, maybe not.

If I am wrong about same R/N number on different models actually being the same drive with modifications (firmware etc) let me know


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> I THINK 8-14TB Red Plus, Red Pro, Purple and the white label shucks are all Ultrastar DC HC500 series drives anyway.


From what I have read CURRENT shucks from 8TB (and maybe 10TB) are Ultrastar DC HC300 series (used to be HC500). Difference is helium vs non helium. Largest HC300 series drive is 10TB so 12 and 14TB shucks should still be HC500 series, ie helium. All are CMR though so that is good.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Why do you prefer the Red over Purple? It may be a moot point anyway as I THINK 8-14TB Red Plus, Red Pro, Purple and the white label shucks are all Ultrastar DC HC500 series drives anyway. With different firmwares and some toned down to 5400RPM from 7200RPM. I could be wrong, but I posted about that and no one corrected me. If you look at pictures of the labels for the same capacity drives for all those series they have the exact same R/N number. Found that out when I was trying to determine what drive a 14TB shuck from an Easystore was. Far as I could tell the 8-14TB are all Ultrastar HC 500 series.
> 
> My question about the 5400 model drives, if they really are 7200RPM perhaps toned down to 5400 is that the same as using a 5400 RPM drive that was designed as 5400 RPM? I saw a quote from someone about these drives, something like "all the minuses of a 7200 RPM drive without the benefits". Another moot point though if I am right that all WD 8TB and up specialty firmware drives are HC DC500 series as that would be all you can get. Just FYI I specifically compared the 14TB since I bought a couple Easystores when they were on sale BF. R/N number for the Ultrastars, the Red Pro, the Red Plus, the Purple and the white label shuck are all R/N US7SAP140. And someone who bought a Red Plus 8TB which is supposedly 5400RPM is very upset, checked the spec sheet for that model, it specifically says "actual spindle speed is 7200RPM though device ID may report 5400 to reflect previous performance class designation". Footnote 9. True for all the Red Plus 8-14TB.
> 
> WD Red Plus NAS Hard Drives (wdc.com)
> 
> Finally, why I prefer Purple to any Red model. For a Tivo user. If all things pretty much equal (such as price), if you ever need to contact WD for support I think they would be more helpful if someone was using an AV firmware drive in an AV device (Tivo). If using any of the Red models they could just say "that's a NAS drive, not meant for use in an AV device, you need a Purple". Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> If I am wrong about same R/N number on different models actually being the same drive with modifications (firmware etc) let me know


Hmm. Color maybe. At one time, the Reds had better specs and warranty than the purples. Looking at the more recent specs, that has reversed. So maybe purples have my vote now.

My favorite drives right now are the Easystores as they have the best price point when they are on sale.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> My favorite drives right now are the Easystores as they have the best price point when they are on sale.


That's for sure. Over the past few years got a couple 8TB, a 10TB, a 12TB and a couple 14TB. When I got the 8 and 10TB they were still the white label Ultrastar DC HC500 type (helium). Now the Easystore 8TB (and possibly the 10TB) are the DC HC300 type (non helium). But all still CMR.


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> That's for sure. Over the past few years got a couple 8TB, a 10TB, a 12TB and a couple 14TB. When I got the 8 and 10TB they were still the white label Ultrastar DC HC500 type (helium). Now the Easystore 8TB (and possibly the 10TB) are the DC HC300 type (non helium). But all still CMR.


Note, I also compared the R/N number on the 14TB "Gold" enterprise drives. They also match up with the R/N number for the Purples, Red Plus, and Red Pro. For the 14TB R/N US7SAP140. Not sure what the R/N number really means, I was/am assuming any drives with the same R/N number are the same base drive, then modified with different firmwares and/or speed modifications and sold as different models/colors. Could be wrong but no one has been able to confirm or disprove yet. The US7SAP is the important part, the last 3 numbers are the capacity of the drive, 080, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180.


----------



## johnbrown44

jmbach said:


> Reverify the target drive name by using the command *lsblk -o name,size,vendor*.
> 
> Next run the command *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY*.
> 
> This will add about 2 TB of recording space and place the partitions in order to allow them to be coalesced when moved. If you have less than 2 TB of space, it will use whatever space you have left to add recording time.
> 
> Once that runs successfully then run the command *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*.


Thank you for this! My Roamio OTA has been having trouble when trying to install another drive. Have tried to install a different 1TB drive (WD10 EFRX Red) after pulling the functioning original WD 10EURX Green Power, as well as a new Toshiba 2TB MQ03ABB200 drive. Toshiba bought for Edge, decided to use 4 tuner Roamio for main recorder. Not ideal perhaps using a 2.5" in a Roamio, we will see. May go to a 3TB or larger if needed down the road, and if the 2TB drive continues to be problem-free.

Supposedly a Roamio will use a drive up to 3TB with no pre formatting or other preps. This has NOT been my experience. Yes, it will format and load, but then goes into a boot loop or randomly reboots after running for a couple minutes. Have tried all the suggestions, LLF, kickstart 57, 58, 76543210. No joy. It formatted the 2TB drive as 1TB, but still had restart issues.

The ONLY thing that worked was cloning the drive. This would prevent reboots, and as expected, would only format/use 1TB when cloning to the 2TB drive.

What FINALLY worked was using the MFSTools 3.2 boot disk and your commands listed at the top of this message to fix/increase the drive to 2TB. I still had to reload/setup Tivo again, and run a KS57 and KS76543210 to get it to "take," but it seems to finally be running smoothly.

The only caveat to using your instructions was that the *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY* came up with an error and didn't take, so I ran the 2nd command, *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*, then reran both again, and got confirmation.

I'm posting this as everywhere I have read stated the Roamio will format up to 3TB with no issues. I will say the Edge did fine with the 2TB drive, but as stated, decided to use the drive in the Roamio.


----------



## jmbach

johnbrown44 said:


> Thank you for this! My Roamio OTA has been having trouble when trying to install another drive. Have tried to install a different 1TB drive (WD10 EFRX Red) after pulling the functioning original WD 10EURX Green Power, as well as a new Toshiba 2TB MQ03ABB200 drive. Toshiba bought for Edge, decided to use 4 tuner Roamio for main recorder. Not ideal perhaps using a 2.5" in a Roamio, we will see. May go to a 3TB or larger if needed down the road, and if the 2TB drives continues to be problem-free.
> 
> Supposedly a Roamio will use a drive up to 3TB with no pre formatting or other preps. This has NOT been my experience. Yes, it will format and load, but then goes into a boot loop or randomly reboots after running for a couple minutes. Have tried all the suggestions, LLF, kickstart 57, 58, 76543210. No joy. It formatted the 2TB drive as 1TB, but still had restart issues.
> 
> The ONLY thing that worked was cloning the drive. This would prevent reboots, and as expected, would only format/use 1TB when cloning to the 2TB drive.
> 
> What FINALLY worked was using the MFSTools 3.2 boot disk and your commands listed at the top of this message to fix/increase the drive to 2TB. I still had to reload/setup Tivo again, and run a KS57 and KS76543210 to get it to "take," but it seems to finally be running smoothly.
> 
> The only caveat to using your instructions was that the *mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdY* came up with an error and didn't take, so I ran the 2nd command, *mfsaddfix /dev/sdY*, then reran both again, and got confirmation.
> 
> I'm posting this as everywhere I have read stated the Roamio will format up to 3TB with no issues. I will say the Edge did fine with the 2TB drive, but as stated, decided to use the drive in the Roamio.


I am glad you got it working. Did you erase the drive before allowing the Roamio to format it. If you did not, then you might have the issue you describe.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## johnbrown44

jmbach said:


> I am glad you got it working. Did you erase the drive before allowing the Roamio to format it. If you did not, then you might have the issue you describe.


Yes, initially did the LLF first, then subsequent times quick wipes and all manor of blessings and curses. None of the 4 drives I tried were new. I suppose something might have been left on the drive, who knows? Will try a brand new drive at some point when/if needed. This seems to as much an art as it is a science.

I can't help but think that there is some step, some seemingly insignificant thing I missed or overlooked, or was left out of the instructions.

Thanks for all the work.

Edit: Model: TCD846000
MADE IN MEXICO
25-Jul-16
Software Version: 20.7.4d.RC8-846-6-846
Tivo Service Level: C: 022521
Collab Slice Version: CP_Standard_t2 v.2224


----------



## tommage1

johnbrown44 said:


> Yes, initially did the LLF first, then subsequent times quick wipes and all manor of blessings and curses. None of the 4 drives I tried were new. I suppose something might have been left on the drive, who knows? Will try a brand new drive at some point when/if needed. This seems to as much an art as it is a science.
> 
> I can't help but think that there is some step, some seemingly insignificant thing I missed or overlooked, or was left out of the instructions.
> 
> Thanks for all the work.
> 
> Edit: Model: TCD846000
> MADE IN MEXICO
> 25-Jul-16
> Software Version: 20.7.4d.RC8-846-6-846
> Tivo Service Level: C: 022521
> Collab Slice Version: CP_Standard_t2 v.2224


I don't think so, if you are talking about letting the Roamio format the drive itself (up to 3TB, I'm assuming TE3). Only thing I would say is FULLY format the drive before letting Roamio format it, ie full format/write zeroes, not a quick. Would take awhile but can't figure anything else that could cause that problem. And maybe run diagnostics on the drive after the full format, maybe Crystal Disc info.


----------



## tommage1

johnbrown44 said:


> Not ideal perhaps using a 2.5" in a Roamio, we will see.


This may be your problem. Roamios use 3.5. 3.5" drives require 12V. Most 2.5" drives only use 5V. So maybe too many volts for a 2.5. In fact maybe so much more it could actually damage the drive. I remember once I tried a 2.5 in a Roamio, got flashing lights, thought if might be because the drive was SMR but maybe it was the volts. I'd stick with 3.5 for Roamio if I were you, would not want to possibly damage the nice 2.5 Toshiba.


----------



## johnbrown44

Thanks for replies.

As I posted in post #415- "Yes, initially did the LLF first, then subsequent times quick wipes and all manor of blessings and curses."

And post #413- "The ONLY thing that worked (prior to MFSTools) was cloning the drive. This would prevent reboots, and as expected, would only format/use 1TB when cloning to the 2TB (or 4TB) drive(s)."

Ran diagnostics.

Perhaps I wasn't clear: The 2.5" drive is _*now working*_, at full capacity, after using the MFSTools 3.2 fixes and ks57 and ks76543210. The Tivo apparently doesn't know or care the drive is 2.5". It is not an SMR drive. None of the drives I tried were SMR.

To clarify: Let Roamio format and setup- even after Low Level Formatting, constant reboots. Clone original working drive to 1TB, 4TB 3.5" and 2TB 2.5" drives, works fine, albeit need to expand.

My point for posting here is that the accepted and posted method for adding a new drive (up to 3TB) by just installing it into a Roamio OTA built in 2016_ *DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK*_.


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## tommage1

johnbrown44 said:


> As I posted in post #415- "Yes, initially did the LLF first, then subsequent times quick wipes and all manor of blessings and curses."


Ah, I did not know what "LLF" meant, so many abbreviations nowadays. I know you got the 2.5 working doing copy, am just trying to figure what why the Roamio did not format itself, if you did the "LLF" I'm stumped, other than the possible voltage thing. The Roamio has a flash drive along with the hard drive, and the OS is on the flash drive so sometimes swapping around drives can cause issues based on what is on the flash drive at the time. I actually just picked up a Roamio OTA, might play with it for fun, try a 2.5, see what happens. I know the Toshiba is CMR by the way, was just mentioning the 2.5 "I" tried was SMR so the flashing lights could have been because it was SMR or the voltage.

The flash drive always expects to see the last drive that was in there. If it does not, what it does depends on what OS and other info is on the flash drive, and what is on the "new" drive just put in. If TOTALLY blank, "LLF" and did not put the LLF drive into any other device or do ANYTHING to it, put in the Tivo immediately after the LLF I am stumped, TE3 or TE4 should not matter in that case if LLFed CMR drive.


----------



## johnbrown44

I did get the 2.5" working doing copy/clone, and the MFSTools allowed the expansion to full 2TB capacity. If I let Roamio format and setup the blanked drive (as per posted method) it would not work, endless setup loop. I also seem to recall reading no special needs for drives 3TB and under.

The Roamio _*did*_ format and setup all the drives it tried, but would go into setup reboot most of the times, and other times would work briefly until selecting "other devices" or a few other random selections in the menu.

I thought perhaps a power supply issue, but using a 5A supply had the same problem.

I WILL say the unit was unused for about 11 months (since last phone home) when I bought it, but worked fine.

Hopefully your "new" Roamio OTA will be fine. I think I mentioned I originally bought the 2.5" drive for my Edge OTA, which only has 500GB, prior to getting the Roamio. Roamio was a craigslist deal I couldn't pass up. And the Edge setup the 2.5" in 25 mins with no issues, software v4. Roamio is v3, as per post #415.

I am a complete newbie to Tivo, but fairly tech and computer savvy.


----------



## tommage1

johnbrown44 said:


> Hopefully your "new" Roamio OTA will be fine. I think I mentioned I originally bought the 2.5" drive for my Edge OTA, which only has 500GB, prior to getting the Roamio. A craigslist deal I couldn't pass up. And the Edge setup the 2.5" in 25 mins with no issues, software v4. Roamio is v3, as per post #415.


For now am going to just leave it alone, it is on TE4 (which I don't like) however I can live with it for awhile. I will upgrade the drive eventually, when I do that is when I would try a 2.5 just to see what happens. However I'd still be nervous about the 12V vs 5V, amps are fine as long as you have enough but voltage needs to be near exact. I don't know what the Sata power connection on the Roamio motherboard puts out, for sure 12v, maybe it somehow can sense if a 2.5 is connected that needs 5V. If it only puts out 12V it may work, for awhile, but would probably end up frying the 2.5.


----------



## johnbrown44

Don't think it has anything to do with 12v/5v. Problems were identical on 2.5 and 3.5 drives.


----------



## tommage1

johnbrown44 said:


> Don't think it has anything to do with 12v/5v. Problems were identical on 2.5 and 3.5 drives.


Maybe. But even though the end result was the same does not mean the issues caused the end result were the same. Since I'm not sure I will test with an older 2.5 I don't care about. I'm sure there is some sort of measuring device that could test the power output of the Sata power connection on the motherboard, maybe there is an electrician here that could answer that. Voltmeter or something like that?


----------



## tommage1

I'll mention one more thing  I have some older hard drive docks that can handle 3.5 and 2.5 drives. The power supplies for the docks show 12V 2A AND 5V 2A output. So am guessing somehow the 12V goes to a 3.5 if you put one in, the 5V goes to a 2.5 if you insert one of those.


----------



## ClearToLand

tommage1 said:


> This may be your problem. Roamios use 3.5. 3.5" drives require 12V. *Most 2.5" drives only use 5V. So maybe too many volts for a 2.5. In fact maybe so much more it could actually damage the drive.* I remember once I tried a 2.5 in a Roamio, got flashing lights, thought if might be because the drive was SMR but maybe it was the volts. I'd stick with 3.5 for Roamio if I were you, would not want to possibly damage the nice 2.5 Toshiba.





tommage1 said:


> For now am going to just leave it alone, it is on TE4 (which I don't like) however I can live with it for awhile. I will upgrade the drive eventually, when I do that is when I would try a 2.5 just to see what happens. However* I'd still be nervous about the 12V vs 5V, amps are fine as long as you have enough but voltage needs to be near exact. I don't know what the Sata power connection on the Roamio motherboard puts out*, for sure 12v, maybe it somehow can sense if a 2.5 is connected that needs 5V. If it only puts out 12V it may work, for awhile, but would probably end up frying the 2.5.





tommage1 said:


> I'll mention one more thing  I have some older hard drive docks that can handle 3.5 and 2.5 drives. The power supplies for the docks show 12V 2A AND 5V 2A output. *So am guessing somehow the 12V goes to a 3.5 if you put one in, the 5V goes to a 2.5 if you insert one of those.*


Please GOOGLE: "*SATA HDD Power Connector Pinout*"

and stop posting nonsensical misinformation. 

There are 12VDC lines and 5VDC lines, on different industry-standard pins - and no "sensing" is involved.


----------



## tommage1

ClearToLand said:


> Please GOOGLE: "*SATA HDD Power Connector Pinout*"
> 
> and stop posting nonsensical misinformation.
> 
> There are 12VDC lines and 5VDC lines, on different industry-standard pins - and no "sensing" is involved.


Well did the search, was able to understand some but not all, I am not an electrician.

But the main thing was trying to figure out why the person is having trouble with the Roamio formatting and using a 2.5" drive (formats but then goes into a boot loop) Since you understand better perhaps you could actually say something like "there would be no problem using a 2.5" drive in a Roamio as compared to the stock 3.5". That would definitely eliminate any voltage problem as the cause of what is happening to him and could move on and try to figure out what is actually causing the problem. Since using a CMR drive and they say they did a full format on the drive first it SHOULD work, also said they did a diagnostic on the drive. They say they had problems with 3.5" CMR non original drives under 3TB also, same thing, formats but goes into boot loop. Makes no sense to me, especially since the original works and cloning and expanding the original to the other drives (including the 2.5) seems to work. Something with the relationship between the flash drive and the hard drives I guess, but if drives are totally blanked and error free the Roamio SHOULD format AND not go into boot loop afterwards.


----------



## johnbrown44

The point of my post was that conventional wisdom here stated as fact that Roamio _*will*_ (don't recall reading _*should*_, or _*most people report that, *_maybe that's a given) format any drive under 4TB without any special hoops to jump thru, but _*my experience was not that at all*_. I'm posting in the event someone else experiences the same problem I did, and perhaps my fix (jmbach's) will work for them. It was not meant to start a discussion about the merits (or lack thereof) of using a 2.5 drive in a machine that originally used a 3.5. People install 2.5 SSD drives in their desktop computers all the time, don't they?

I also stated I had the same issue of reboot loop whether using a 2.5 or 3.5 drive. That debunks the 12v theory. A 2.5 drive will ignore the 12v line if not needed/used. And I will repeat: If the 12v was a problem _*causing*_ reboot loop, why does the drive now work perfectly after MFSTools? Did it magically turn off the 12v? Wouldn't that cause a problem if the drive were a 3.5? You see, MFSTools doesn't know what size the drive is, no?

Can we just stop with the 12v stuff? I appreciate your trying to help, it was a good guess, that _*could have been the cause*_, but *it has been proven to not be the cause*. Time to stop beating that dead horse and move on with another theory. I am open to other ideas, but quite frankly, I am about finished with this discussion; the drive works. This was my experience, others may have difference results, thus my statement upthread that it is perhaps more an art than a science.


----------



## bbddpp

Hi everyone,

Wanted to first thank the community for what they are doing here. Amazing work. MFStools was awesome and even dealt with all the read sector errors on my bad drive and still made a copy from a 2TB drive to a 5TB that booted right up (I knew the drive was bad and figure some of the cotnent may not play, but overall it looks great).

Further, I have only run the copy command, and have not yet run the mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/SdY command yet. My Roamio is showing 42% capacity (the 2TB was basically full) and 701 HD 4827 SD hours in the sysinfo screen.

My question is, should I still run the mfsadd and the mfsaddfix commands just to be safe? Can it hurt anything to run them? I just want to make sure I am getting the most of my 5TB and it will run properly. Thanks in advance for any help and congrats on an amazing tool.


----------



## jmbach

bbddpp said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Wanted to first thank the community for what they are doing here. Amazing work. MFStools was awesome and even dealt with all the read sector errors on my bad drive and still made a copy from a 2TB drive to a 5TB that booted right up (I knew the drive was bad and figure some of the cotnent may not play, but overall it looks great).
> 
> Further, I have only run the copy command, and have not yet run the mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/SdY command yet. My Roamio is showing 42% capacity (the 2TB was basically full) and 701 HD 4827 SD hours in the sysinfo screen.
> 
> My question is, should I still run the mfsadd and the mfsaddfix commands just to be safe? Can it hurt anything to run them? I just want to make sure I am getting the most of my 5TB and it will run properly. Thanks in advance for any help and congrats on an amazing tool.


Before you go any further, answer a few questions. 
Are running TE3 or TE4.
What was the copy command line you used.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## bbddpp

jmbach said:


> Before you go any further, answer a few questions.
> Are running TE3 or TE4.
> What was the copy command line you used.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


No problem! I am on TE4.

I ran only this one command before putting the 5TB drive into the Roamio.

sda is the 2tb drive I pulled from the roamio.
sdb is a new 5TB drive.

_*mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sda /dev/sdb*_


----------



## jmbach

bbddpp said:


> No problem! I am on TE4.
> 
> I ran only this one command before putting the 5TB drive into the Roamio.
> 
> sda is the 2tb drive I pulled from the roamio.
> sdb is a new 5TB drive.
> 
> _*mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sda /dev/sdb*_


Soooo.....
At your current state you have some room left of your 5 TB drive. One iteration of mfsadd followed by mfsaddfix will get the rest.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## bbddpp

jmbach said:


> Soooo.....
> At your current state you have some room left of your 5 TB drive. One iteration of mfsadd followed by mfsaddfix will get the rest.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


You rock. Here are the commands I plan to run then (I assume the 2040 doesn't hurt anything even though I probably only have half that left):

mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdb
mfsaddfix /dev/sdb

Do I have it right? If so I'll take the drive out and try this after tonight's recordings finish. Super thrilled to see the new drive working and all my shows from the 2TB on there as well. Thank you again.


----------



## jmbach

bbddpp said:


> You rock. Here are the commands I plan to run then (I assume the 2040 doesn't hurt anything even though I probably only have half that left):
> 
> mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sdb
> mfsaddfix /dev/sdb
> 
> Do I have it right? If so I'll take the drive out and try this after tonight's recordings finish. Super thrilled to see the new drive working and all my shows from the 2TB on there as well. Thank you again.


Those are correct. And you are correct using the size limitation parameter has no effect if the size is smaller than the parameter.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## bbddpp

It worked great. Thanks again!


----------



## ClearToLand

*For LURKERs following this thread:*


bbddpp said:


> *It worked great*. Thanks again!





lhvetinari said:


> EFAX *is a DM-SMR disk and is not suited for TiVo use*. *TE3 (20.x) will accept it but it'll run like dogs---*, whereas TE4 often will outright refuse to boot. You want an EFRX (tougher to find) or a Purple PURZ surveillance drive.





pl1 said:


> ...Also, *be sure you get a hard drive that is known to work (CMR)*, most recommend either a WD Red Plus or a WD Purple. *That Seagate drive is an SMR drive.* So, you can try it, but *you might be disappointed*.




















Spoiler: Sorry, I tried...



I tried for over half an hour to download this Emoji to my PC, shrink it to a more reasonable size, and then upload it as an attachment but, in 'Preview', the forum software kept complaining that I didn't have access to view it?!?


> *You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.*


Anyways, the point is, let's all wait and see how long this SMR HDD '_Experiment_' works in @bbddpp 's TiVo Unit. My observation, from reading MANY of his posts, is that @lhvetinari is fairly knowledgeable about TiVo...

P.S. I try to add '_interest / color / attention grabbers / entertainment_' to my posts. When I post simple 'Plain Text', I've found that I have to REPEAT the same question over and over and over again because folks nowadays just don't seem to be capable of absorbing / acknowledging / comprehending it unless it stands out from the rest of the 'Plain Text'. If you and I were standing 'Face-to-Face', you would HEAR the intonations in my voice. By using the forum '_Tools_', I attempt to replicate those '_intonations_'. Whether I succeed or not is up to the reader. The "*Most Vocal*" (you *KNOW* who you are  ) *COMPLAIN*' that my usage of '_color / bold / etc..._' DETRACTS from the believablilty / credibility of my posts. I disagree.

Just my observation / opinion...

P.P.S. If you ENJOY my posts, and gain some knowledge (or entertainment) from them, *BUT* are hesitant to reply PUBLICLY (for fear of scorn / retribution  ), please feel free to PM me (or post in my 'Profile'). Volunteering to help others not so knowledgeable is supposed to be FUN. Just because some '_diehards_' refuse to acknowledge '_other truths_' is no reason to '_diss_' them. 

It's taken me SEVERAL DECADES to come to the realizations that I now understand... 

P.P.P.S. They say that whatever's posted on the Internet is "_*forever*_". IME, that's '_somewhat_' true - i.e. if the forum that you spent 100s of hours on creating a FAQ is taken down, your 100s of hours of work is also '_taken down_' (unless it's in Archive.Org and I'm not aware of it). I'm proud of the posts I make and I trust that they can stand the "_Test of Time_", compared to the BS (SMS Text 160 character or less) '_snipes_' that I see constantly on so many forums  . While smartphones may have GREATLY assisted folks like '_law enforcement_', IMNSHO, they have greatly DUMBED DOWN the general public  .


----------



## bmgoodman

So I'm swapping out my original 3 TB hard drive from my Roamio Pro (TE3). The Roamio has rebooted itself unexpectedly at least twice in the last month and every once in a while I see a bit of a stutter or macroblocking. So it's time.

I bought a 4 TB WD Red Plus and I've run the full erase and now the extended test is nearly done. I've read that the 4 TB drive can be upgraded either using MFSTools or my favorite imaging tool. I've tinkered some with Macrium Reflect, so it's my favorite by default!

Am I supposed to let it auto resize partitions after the copy completes? Or something else?


----------



## jmbach

bmgoodman said:


> So I'm swapping out my original 3 TB hard drive from my Roamio Pro (TE3). The Roamio has rebooted itself unexpectedly at least twice in the last month and every once in a while I see a bit of a stutter or macroblocking. So it's time.
> 
> I bought a 4 TB WD Red Plus and I've run the full erase and now the extended test is nearly done. I've read that the 4 TB drive can be upgraded either using MFSTools or my favorite imaging tool. I've tinkered some with Macrium Reflect, so it's my favorite by default!
> 
> Am I supposed to let it auto resize partitions after the copy completes? Or something else?


It would be best if you use MFSTools to copy your original drive to the new one.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## MrPC

I have a TiVo Romio Pro TCD840300, Series 5 running 20.7.4d.RC15-840-6-840. I noticed some stuttering video on my TiVo lately and thought maybe the HD was starting to go bad. I did my research and saw this post. I ordered a 6TB CMR drive WD60EFZX to replace my 3TB drive.

I downloaded the latest MFSTools v3.34-2 (live-image-amd64.hybrid.iso). I connected the 2 drives and booted from the image on a USB drive. I verified the drive assignments.

In my scenario I ran the following commands:
sudo mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sda /dev/sdb
I noticed a couple of times msfcopy reported some trouble reading in 2 spots, but successfully finished the copy utilizing 4TB of the drive. I then tested the new 6TB drive in my TiVo. It booted up fine reporting that it had Variable, up to 699 HD or 4811 SD hours, next line Variable, up to 338 HD or 2333 SD hours.

This is where things don't go as planned.

I removed my new 6TB and connected to my PC by itself. I booted up MSF Tools, verified drive assignment and entered sudo mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sda and get the following:

Current estimated standalone size: 5233 hours
Adding pair /dev/sda15-/dev/sda16...
New estimated standalone size: 7167 hours (1934 more)
Done! Estimated standalone gain: 1934 hours
Revalidating partition table on /dev/sda... Sucess!
[email protected]: $ [ 252.445462] Tivo patition [le] seen
[ 252.445482] sda: [tivo] sda1 sda2 sda3 sda4 sda5 sda6 sda7 sda8 sda9 sda10 sda11 sda12 sda 13 sda14
_

This is where all I see is a flashing cursor.
I can hit enter at anytime to get the prompt to continue (I've waited 15 to 8 hours for the prompt to appear before hiting enter). I hit enter, get the prompt and run lsblk -o name,size,vendor to verify the partitions. Here's what I see:

NAME SIZE VENDOR
loop0 377.5M
sda 5.5T ATA
sda1 31.5K
sda2 4K
sda3 4K
sda4 4K
sda5 4K
sda6 4K
sda7 4K
sda8 1G
sda9 768M
sda10 800M
sda11 2T
sda12 800M
sda13 2T
sda14 3G

sdb 7.5G Kingston
sdb1 492M
sdb2 2.4M

I then run: MFSaddfix /dev/sda

Little endian computer detected.

Drive has expected TiVo signature
Will begin to process drive.

Pruning Apple_Free partitions...
Pruning Apple_Free partitions complete.

Converting to 64 bit APM in progress...
Conversion to 64 APM complete.

Contemplating if coalescing the added partitions makes sense.
Coalescing makes sense.

Moving coalescing partitions 15 and 16 to 2.
Finished moving partitions.

Begin correcting the MFS header.
Evaluating MFS header to see if it can be appropriately modified to complete the process.
Correcting the MFS header.
Something is very wrong here! Exiting.....
[email protected]: $ [31408.539407] Tivo patition [le] seen
[31408.540231] sda: [tivo] sda1

Again I have to press enter to get the prompt back.

I put the drive into my TiVo and get External Storage Missing. I clear the missing drive and get the rebooting green screen.

Side notes: Before reimaging the drive after a failed attempt I use Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostics to quick erase the drive before restarting the process again (should I do a full with WDDLD, maybe dban to erase drive?). After booting the MFSTools the version reports Linux mfslive 4.19.196-tivo. I'm using MFSTools 3.34 should I be using an older version?

Any help would be appreciated... Thanks


----------



## jmbach

MrPC said:


> I have a TiVo Romio Pro TCD840300, Series 5 running 20.7.4d.RC15-840-6-840. I noticed some stuttering video on my TiVo lately and thought maybe the HD was starting to go bad. I did my research and saw this post. I ordered a 6TB CMR drive WD60EFZX to replace my 3TB drive.
> 
> I downloaded the latest MFSTools v3.34-2 (live-image-amd64.hybrid.iso). I connected the 2 drives and booted from the image on a USB drive. I verified the drive assignments.
> 
> In my scenario I ran the following commands:
> sudo mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sda /dev/sdb
> I noticed a couple of times msfcopy reported some trouble reading in 2 spots, but successfully finished the copy utilizing 4TB of the drive. I then tested the new 6TB drive in my TiVo. It booted up fine reporting that it had Variable, up to 699 HD or 4811 SD hours, next line Variable, up to 338 HD or 2333 SD hours.
> 
> This is where things don't go as planned.
> 
> I removed my new 6TB and connected to my PC by itself. I booted up MSF Tools, verified drive assignment and entered sudo mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sda and get the following:
> 
> Current estimated standalone size: 5233 hours
> Adding pair /dev/sda15-/dev/sda16...
> New estimated standalone size: 7167 hours (1934 more)
> Done! Estimated standalone gain: 1934 hours
> Revalidating partition table on /dev/sda... Sucess!
> [email protected]: $ [ 252.445462] Tivo patition [le] seen
> [ 252.445482] sda: [tivo] sda1 sda2 sda3 sda4 sda5 sda6 sda7 sda8 sda9 sda10 sda11 sda12 sda 13 sda14
> _
> 
> This is where all I see is a flashing cursor.
> I can hit enter at anytime to get the prompt to continue (I've waited 15 to 8 hours for the prompt to appear before hiting enter). I hit enter, get the prompt and run lsblk -o name,size,vendor to verify the partitions. Here's what I see:
> 
> NAME SIZE VENDOR
> loop0 377.5M
> sda 5.5T ATA
> sda1 31.5K
> sda2 4K
> sda3 4K
> sda4 4K
> sda5 4K
> sda6 4K
> sda7 4K
> sda8 1G
> sda9 768M
> sda10 800M
> sda11 2T
> sda12 800M
> sda13 2T
> sda14 3G
> 
> sdb 7.5G Kingston
> sdb1 492M
> sdb2 2.4M
> 
> I then run: MFSaddfix /dev/sda
> 
> Little endian computer detected.
> 
> Drive has expected TiVo signature
> Will begin to process drive.
> 
> Pruning Apple_Free partitions...
> Pruning Apple_Free partitions complete.
> 
> Converting to 64 bit APM in progress...
> Conversion to 64 APM complete.
> 
> Contemplating if coalescing the added partitions makes sense.
> Coalescing makes sense.
> 
> Moving coalescing partitions 15 and 16 to 2.
> Finished moving partitions.
> 
> Begin correcting the MFS header.
> Evaluating MFS header to see if it can be appropriately modified to complete the process.
> Correcting the MFS header.
> Something is very wrong here! Exiting.....
> [email protected]: $ [31408.539407] Tivo patition [le] seen
> [31408.540231] sda: [tivo] sda1
> 
> Again I have to press enter to get the prompt back.
> 
> I put the drive into my TiVo and get External Storage Missing. I clear the missing drive and get the rebooting green screen.
> 
> Side notes: Before reimaging the drive after a failed attempt I use Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostics to quick erase the drive before restarting the process again (should I do a full with WDDLD, maybe dban to erase drive?). After booting the MFSTools the version reports Linux mfslive 4.19.196-tivo. I'm using MFSTools 3.34 should I be using an older version?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated... Thanks


I am not sure if the -tivo kernel is causing some issues. mfsadd added two more partitions but lsblk did not see it. Then mfsaddfix ran into trouble. Might need to notify equinoxe about that if running the ISO without the -tivo kernel enabled results in a successful expansion with the same commands.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bane7

I upgraded my Roamio pro to an 8 TB drive 5 years ago. The drive is starting to go bad. Can I just clone the drive to another 8tb drive (same) size and put the new drive into my roamio or do I still need to use MFS tools?

Thanks,


----------



## tommage1

Bane7 said:


> I upgraded my Roamio pro to an 8 TB drive 5 years ago. The drive is starting to go bad. Can I just clone the drive to another 8tb drive (same) size and put the new drive into my roamio or do I still need to use MFS tools?
> 
> Thanks,


Depends on if there are errors on the drive. You can clone to another 8TB if the current drive is ok. I would check it before doing the clone, smart test (make sure you don't format it by mistake if using Windows) If ok clone is fine. If errors, well I would try MFST copy or even DDrescue which is also on the MFST CD (or USB if that is where you have it). Assuming you have a current version of MFST. I mean you can try a copy, if using MFST it should show errors during the copy if there are any. A cloning dock would NOT be a good idea unless you have checked the original for errors, there is no feedback with a dock, will just keep trying and trying if there are errors and could burn out the dock.


----------



## Bane7

tommage1 said:


> Depends on if there are errors on the drive. You can clone to another 8TB if the current drive is ok. I would check it before doing the clone, smart test (make sure you don't format it by mistake if using Windows) If ok clone is fine. If errors, well I would try MFST copy or even DDrescue which is also on the MFST CD (or USB if that is where you have it). Assuming you have a current version of MFST. I mean you can try a copy, if using MFST it should show errors during the copy if there are any. A cloning dock would NOT be a good idea unless you have checked the original for errors, there is no feedback with a dock, will just keep trying and trying if there are errors and could burn out the dock.


Smart test says that there are health issuee, but it will not affect my use of the drive.

How would I check for errors using MSFT copy?

Thanks


----------



## jmbach

Bane7 said:


> Smart test says that there are health issuee, but it will not affect my use of the drive.
> 
> How would I check for errors using MSFT copy?
> 
> Thanks


The best way of checking for issues is to do a full read of the drive with the manufacturer's diagnostic software.

MFSTools in and of itself does not check for errors on the drive. Your best bet would be to use ddrescue to copy the drive to a good same size drive. By using some of the switches on the command line you can use it to try to rescue any bad spots.

Just because the drive is new, I would not assume it is all good. I personally do a complete read - write - read of the drive with the manufacturer's diagnostic software before I put it use.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bane7

jmbach said:


> The best way of checking for issues is to do a full read of the drive with the manufacturer's diagnostic software.
> 
> MFSTools in and of itself does not check for errors on the drive. Your best bet would be to use ddrescue to copy the drive to a good same size drive. By using some of the switches on the command line you can use it to try to rescue any bad spots.
> 
> Just because the drive is new, I would not assume it is all good. I personally do a complete read - write - read of the drive with the manufacturer's diagnostic software before I put it use.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


I see that ddrescue is in MFSTools iso. What switches should I use for the clone with error recovery?

Thanks


----------



## jmbach

Bane7 said:


> I see that ddrescue is in MFSTools iso. What switches should I use for the clone with error recovery?
> 
> Thanks


I would refer you to a few references about ddrescue here and here.

The commands will depend on how bad the drive is and how much you want to recover. Using a log file helps ddrescue to run multiple passes on the same drive using different commands. The log file should not go on the source or target drives. I would first do a single pass forward and then reverse (if you have the log file) to recover the easy stuff. After that would start scrubbing the bad spots (again only if using the log file). If the source drive already remapped the bad spots, well that data is lost.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bane7

jmbach said:


> I would refer you to a few references about ddrescue here and here.
> 
> The commands will depend on how bad the drive is and how much you want to recover. Using a log file helps ddrescue to run multiple passes on the same drive using different commands. The log file should not go on the source or target drives. I would first do a single pass forward and then reverse (if you have the log file) to recover the easy stuff. After that would start scrubbing the bad spots (again only if using the log file). If the source drive already remapped the bad spots, well that data is lost.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


So, I ran ddrescue -n -d -f -v /dev/sdb /dev/sda

I didn't do the -r3 option because a couple of sites said it can make a questionable drive completely fail.

The result was 100% rescued with no errors shown. However after putting the new drive in my Roamio, It rebooted within minutes, is there anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks,


----------



## jmbach

Bane7 said:


> So, I ran ddrescue -n -d -f -v /dev/sdb /dev/sda
> 
> I didn't do the -r3 option because a couple of sites said it can make a questionable drive completely fail.
> 
> The result was 100% rescued with no errors shown. However after putting the new drive in my Roamio, It rebooted within minutes, is there anything else I should be looking at?
> 
> Thanks,


Try a Kickstart 58 on boot up.

Also did you run diagnostics on the target drive before copying.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bane7

jmbach said:


> Try a Kickstart 58 on boot up.
> 
> Also did you run diagnostics on the target drive before copying.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


I did rhe kick start 58. Should I expect any kind of message saying it ran, completed, etc?


----------



## jmbach

Bane7 said:


> I did rhe kick start 58. Should I expect any kind of message saying it ran, completed, etc?


Usually you will see something to indicate it is going to do the KS58 unless it is rebooting before it gets to that point.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bane7

jmbach said:


> Usually you will see something to indicate it is going to do the KS58 unless it is rebooting before it gets to that point.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


The only difference is that it says it is "installing and update." Is that normal?


----------



## jmbach

Bane7 said:


> The only difference is that it says it is "installing and update." Is that normal?


Yes. So is your unit still rebooting?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bane7

jmbach said:


> Yes. So is your unit still rebooting?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


It hasn't rebooted in hours. Before the drive replacement It was rebooting 1 to 3 times a day. So, I'll have to probably have to wait a few days to know for sure.


----------



## jmbach

Bane7 said:


> It hasn't rebooted in hours. Before the drive replacement It was rebooting 1 to 3 times a day. So, I'll have to probably have to wait a few days to know for sure.


I have had good luck with KS 58 fixing most issues with a Roamio. KS 57 tends to put a Roamio in a boot loop. Stay away from that.

What kind of Roamio is it?

I ask because I have found that the Roamios with an external power brick tends to be somewhat underpowered and can cause rebooting.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bane7

jmbach said:


> I have had good luck with KS 58 fixing most issues with a Roamio. KS 57 tends to put a Roamio in a boot loop. Stay away from that.
> 
> What kind of Roamio is it?
> 
> I ask because I have found that the Roamios with an external power brick tends to be somewhat underpowered and can cause rebooting.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


It's a Roamio plus that I upgraded after purchase.


----------



## Bane7

jmbach said:


> I have had good luck with KS 58 fixing most issues with a Roamio. KS 57 tends to put a Roamio in a boot loop. Stay away from that.
> 
> What kind of Roamio is it?
> 
> I ask because I have found that the Roamios with an external power brick tends to be somewhat underpowered and can cause rebooting.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


So, I can get it to reboot the Roamio when minis try to load the "my shows" list. Otherwise it seems stable. Any ideas what might cause that?


----------



## krkaufman

Bane7 said:


> So, I cna get it to reboot the Roamio when minis try to load the "my shows" list. Otherwise it seems stable. Any ideas what might cause that?


How many Minis are configured for that Roamio Plus/Pro as their host DVR? Does is take just one Mini powered-on to trigger the reboots, or more? (Partly just curious: we retired our TiVos, with some of the willingness to let go relating to our Roamio Pro's tendency to reboot, often when accessing it from one of our 7 Minis.)


----------



## Bane7

krkaufman said:


> How many Minis are configured for that Roamio Plus/Pro as their host DVR? Does is take just one Mini powered-on to trigger the reboots, or more? (Partly just curious: we retired our TiVos, with some of the willingness to let go relating to our Roamio Pro's tendency to reboot, often when accessing it from one of our 7 Minis.)


I have three minis. 1 old style and 2 mini vox.


----------



## jmbach

Bane7 said:


> I have three minis. 1 old style and 2 mini vox.


Might try just trying one mini connected to the network at a time to see if it is only one that is causing it.

One consideration would be to reset the network. Pull the minis off the network physically and do a c&de on the minis. Power down the Roamio completely. Power up the Roamio and after it is completely booted up attach one mini to the network and connect it to the Roamio. If after a couple of days there are no reboots, attach the next one and so on.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## krkaufman

jmbach said:


> Might try just trying one mini connected to the network at a time to see if it is only one that is causing it.
> 
> One consideration would be to reset the network. Pull the minis off the network physically and do a c&de on the minis. Power down the Roamio completely. Power up the Roamio and after it is completely booted up attach one mini to the network and connect it to the Roamio. If after a couple of days there are no reboots, attach the next one and so on.


Also, consider swapping the Mini locations, to perhaps see if it's a network cabling or hardware issue, rather than with a specific Mini (or number of Minis).


----------



## mgdjr

totally new to the tivo world.... having just gotten a refurb roamio pro that has not been turned on (by me), will switching out the 3 TB drive for a 10 TB drive first work without having to worry about all the things mentioned in the parts of the thread that i have scanned thru as it seems everyone had an existing unit that had been setup and with recordings they wanted to keep rather then start out with a new drive?


----------



## tommage1

mgdjr said:


> totally new to the tivo world.... having just gotten a refurb roamio pro that has not been turned on (by me), will switching out the 3 TB drive for a 10 TB drive first work without having to worry about all the things mentioned in the parts of the thread that i have scanned thru as it seems everyone had an existing unit that had been setup and with recordings they wanted to keep rather then start out with a new drive?


Well it depends on what OS is on the Roamio currently. If it is TE4 then the Roamio should format the 10TB itself. If on TE3 there will be a process. For me, it's worth the "process" to stay on TE3, I way prefer it to TE4. Others will disagree. The process is not that tough. Maybe boot it up with current drive to see what OS it is on, look at the system screen and check the OS version, maybe post here. Does the Pro have lifetime service or is it monthly/yearly, just curious.


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> Well it depends on what OS is on the Roamio currently. If it is TE4 then the Roamio should format the 10TB itself. If on TE3 there will be a process. For me, it's worth the "process" to stay on TE3, I way prefer it to TE4. Others will disagree. The process is not that tough. Maybe boot it up with current drive to see what OS it is on, look at the system screen and check the OS version, maybe post here. Does the Pro have lifetime service or is it monthly/yearly, just curious.


Just FYI there are two "drives" in a Roamio, the hard drive and a flash drive. The flash drive holds the OS. So whatever is on the flash drive now is the current OS, TE3 or TE4.


----------



## mgdjr

thanks for the quick response... it came with lifetime service... since the new drive is arriving tomorrow, i had already taken it apart and removed the old drive based on some other pages i had read but when i got on here i was a little worried i was too optimistic... anyway it was manufactured in 4 march 16/mod tcd840300 that might be a clue on te3 or te4 (which i will have to google)


----------



## tommage1

mgdjr said:


> thanks for the quick response... it came with lifetime service... since the new drive is arriving tomorrow, i had already taken it apart and removed the old drive based on some other pages i had read but when i got on here i was a little worried i was too optimistic... anyway it was manufactured in 4 march 16/mod tcd840300 that might be a clue on te3 or te4 (which i will have to google)


Manufacturing date has nothing to do with it at this point. It is what is on the flash drive NOW, I would just flip the original drive back in, do the setup if necessary, then check the system page for the current OS. I know of no way to find this out without doing that, maybe someone else does? Original drive is only going back in to find out the OS, once you find that out you can figure out what needs to be done to install the 10TB. One other "bonus", when you connect to the internet to do this "test", it should also update to the latest version of either TE3 or TE4 which will update the flash drive. Then you will have the latest version of whatever OS is currently on the flash drive so when installing the 10 the OS will be up to date already.


----------



## tommage1

TE3 is the "original" Tivo OS, what made it unique to Tivo. TE4 also known as Hydra or "new experience" is more like a cable company DVR IMO. Many unique features of the original Tivo OS (ie TE3) were removed from TE4. Some people like TE4, some like TE3.


----------



## jmbach

tommage1 said:


> Manufacturing date has nothing to do with it at this point. It is what is on the flash drive NOW, I would just flip the original drive back in, do the setup if necessary, then check the system page for the current OS. I know of no way to find this out without doing that, maybe someone else does? Original drive is only going back in to find out the OS, once you find that out you can figure out what needs to be done to install the 10TB. One other "bonus", when you connect to the internet to do this "test", it should also update to the latest version of either TE3 or TE4 which will update the flash drive. Then you will have the latest version of whatever OS is currently on the flash drive so when installing the 10 the OS will be up to date already.


I think if you press info at the initial startup screen ( I think that is where you choose country but it has been a long time since seeing that screen) it will display the version number.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## mgdjr

will do... assuming it is te3 would either of you be able to point to a link detailing the, as tommage called, "process" to make use of the 10 from the start? while doing tech stuff has been quite awhile, i am usually good at following directions


----------



## tommage1

mgdjr said:


> will do... assuming it is te3 would either of you be able to point to a link detailing the, as tommage called, "process" to make use of the 10 from the start? while doing tech stuff has been quite awhile, i am usually good at following directions


Well, since you are starting fresh, you COULD just pop in the 10TB and see what happens. If it's on a fairly current version of TE4 it should just format the whole 10TB and you would be good to go (other than letting TE4 format the 10 itself you would not be able to go back to TE3 without starting totally fresh again). Check the system screen after it formats the 10, if the whole 10TB is done you would be good to go (with TE4), if not you are either on an earlier version of TE4 or on TE3. Then would need to figure out what to do, the "process".


----------



## jmbach

mgdjr said:


> will do... assuming it is te3 would either of you be able to point to a link detailing the, as tommage called, "process" to make use of the 10 from the start? while doing tech stuff has been quite awhile, i am usually good at following directions


There are a couple of ways to accomplish this. But I think the best start is to let it boot the original drive and let it update to the latest TE3 or TE4. Don't worry about cableCARD pairing or anything like that.

TE4 replace the drive with the 10 TB and let it format and you can set it up.

TE3...well the easiest approach would be to PM ggieseke and ask him for a version of MFSR that limits the expansion size to 8 TB on the drive followingthe instructionsin the MFSR thread. Then do a mfsadd followed by mfsaddfix on the drive using MFSTools ISO from the instructions in this thread.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> There are a couple of ways to accomplish this. But I think the best start is to let it boot the original drive and let it update to the latest TE3 or TE4. Don't worry about cableCARD pairing or anything like that.
> 
> TE4 replace the drive with the 10 TB and let it format and you can set it up.
> 
> TE3...well the easiest approach would be to PM ggieseke and ask him for a version of MFSR that limits the expansion size to 8 TB on the drive followingthe instructionsin the MFSR thread. Then do a mfsadd followed by mfsaddfix on the drive using MFSTools ISO from the instructions in this thread.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


I'll say one more thing. Since "I" prefer TE3. IF the current OS is TE3 just try it for awhile with the original 3TB. To see how they like it. Then if they want to try TE4 could work from there. If starting with TE4 will probably never go back to try TE3 since would lose everything, and if they let TE4 format the 10TB itself would not be able to go back to TE3 using the normal method, from what I hear cannot be done. Would have to go back to original drive (3TB or under), roll back to TE3, then do the upgrade to the 10?

For sure good idea to boot and connect with the original drive as we both mentioned, so will get the latest version of whatever is on there now, TE3 or TE4.


----------



## tommage1

jmbach said:


> I think if you press info at the initial startup screen ( I think that is where you choose country but it has been a long time since seeing that screen) it will display the version number.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


That's good to know, will remember for the future.


----------



## mgdjr

sounds like a busy couple of days... the reason i am attempting this is we leave for florida as we are snowbirds and this year we are staying much longer then usual hence (at the suggestion of a cable tech person) i got the tivo but even with the 3 TB, I would have to really cut down on the the number of things be recorded. unfortunately departure is the 10th and there is lots of packing to do in the meantime... course if you are in a "cold" state you are probably thinking bad things right about now... thanks for the info


----------



## tommage1

mgdjr said:


> sounds like a busy couple of days... the reason i am attempting this is we leave for florida as we are snowbirds and this year we are staying much longer then usual hence (at the suggestion of a cable tech person) i got the tivo but even with the 3 TB, I would have to really cut down on the the number of things be recorded. unfortunately departure is the 10th and there is lots of packing to do in the meantime... course if you are in a "cold" state you are probably thinking bad things right about now... thanks for the info


3TB may hold a lot more than you think. Especially since cable compresses everything now, what used to be 6-10GB per hour is now like 2-3GB (or a bit less). Don't know how much you record but 3TB will probably hold over 1000 hours HD (compressed cable), a lot more if SD. The "estimated HD hours" on the Tivo system screen is from the old days, when the HD shows were 6-10GB per hour. Pretty much can multiply that number by 3 for current cable HD capacity.


----------



## JoJetSki

Help please.

I am upgrading a stock romio pro form 3 tb to 8 tb. I am on TE3. I am using MFSTools v3.34-2 and following the instructions in the original post.

After booting the MFSTools I am doing the command lsblk -o name,size,vendor.

I see my tivo drive as sdb 2.7t ata
and my new drive as sda 7.3t ata 
(My os is on an nvme1)

I type the command mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdb /dev/sda
I get the following errors:
Copy source: Input/output error reading volume header.
Copy source /dev/sdb10: Permission denied.

It appeared the image auto logged in so I did not put in a password, is that the problem perhaps?

I have included a screen shot so in case I am missing something someone can point it out.

This is a fully working Tivo 3 tb drive with no boot issues.
Your help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## jmbach

JoJetSki said:


> Help please.
> 
> I am upgrading a stock romio pro form 3 tb to 8 tb. I am on TE3. I am using MFSTools v3.34-2 and following the instructions in the original post.
> 
> After booting the MFSTools I am doing the command lsblk -o name,size,vendor.
> 
> I see my tivo drive as sdb 2.7t ata
> and my new drive as sda 7.3t ata
> (My os is on an nvme1)
> 
> I type the command mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdb /dev/sda
> I get the following errors:
> Copy source: Input/output error reading volume header.
> Copy source /dev/sdb10: Permission denied.
> 
> It appeared the image auto logged in so I did not put in a password, is that the problem perhaps?
> 
> I have included a screen shot so in case I am missing something someone can point it out.
> 
> This is a fully working Tivo 3 tb drive with no boot issues.
> Your help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 67790


Type sudo before the command. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## JoJetSki

jmbach said:


> Type sudo before the command.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Thanks it is now copying...fingers crossed. I ran both the read and write tests using the WD utility as you suggest 13 hours for each run hopefully this drive lasts as long as my 3 tb has lasted.


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## JoJetSki

JoJetSki said:


> Thanks it is now copying...fingers crossed. I ran both the read and write tests using the WD utility as you suggest 13 hours for each run hopefully this drive lasts as long as my 3 tb has lasted.


Well the copy finished and I was able to put the drive back in the tivo and it booted up, connected to Tivo and cable card was still working.

So I took it back out and ran the following commands

sudo mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sda
that completed fine.
sudo mfsaddfix /dev/sda
It pruned the apple_free partitions
If converted the 64 bit apm 
it coalesced partitions 15 and 16 to 2
During the correcting of the header I get
"Something is very wrong here! Exiting...."

When I put the drive back in my tivo it thinks I have disconnected an external expander drive and wants to divorce it.

I copied the original 3 tb romio pro drive to an 8 tb red drive with no issues. I am on te3.

I am attaching a picture in case I am not describing anything correctly. Your suggestions of what I can do are welcome.


----------



## jmbach

JoJetSki said:


> Well the copy finished and I was able to put the drive back in the tivo and it booted up, connected to Tivo and cable card was still working.
> 
> So I took it back out and ran the following commands
> 
> sudo mfsadd -xcm 2040 /dev/sda
> that completed fine.
> sudo mfsaddfix /dev/sda
> It pruned the apple_free partitions
> If converted the 64 bit apm
> it coalesced partitions 15 and 16 to 2
> During the correcting of the header I get
> "Something is very wrong here! Exiting...."
> 
> When I put the drive back in my tivo it thinks I have disconnected an external expander drive and wants to divorce it.
> 
> I copied the original 3 tb romio pro drive to an 8 tb red drive with no issues. I am on te3.
> 
> I am attaching a picture in case I am not describing anything correctly. Your suggestions of what I can do are welcome.
> 
> View attachment 67822


Run mfsinfo -d on the image and post the response. 

And did you run MFSTools with or without the -tivo switch when it booted up?

Looks like the code failed at determining how to modify the MFS header before correcting the MFS header checksum. We can manually fix this. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## JoJetSki

jmbach said:


> Run mfsinfo -d on the image and post the response.
> 
> And did you run MFSTools with or without the -tivo switch when it booted up?
> 
> Looks like the code failed at determining how to modify the MFS header before correcting the MFS header checksum. We can manually fix this.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Thank you for your response.

Attached is the screenshot from the mfsinfo -d

Also attached is my boot screen. I am not typing or choosing -tivo anywhere I am selecting the third option on the boot screen Live system, kernal 4.19.0-17-amd64
If I am supposed to type a command for the -tivo I don't know what the syntax is. If I am supposed to go back that boot screen and choose the first option Live System (Tivo partitions).... I don't know how to do that.

Let me know what other info I can provide.


----------



## jmbach

JoJetSki said:


> Thank you for your response.
> 
> Attached is the screenshot from the mfsinfo -d
> 
> Also attached is my boot screen. I am not typing or choosing -tivo anywhere I am selecting the third option on the boot screen Live system, kernal 4.19.0-17-amd64
> If I am supposed to type a command for the -tivo I don't know what the syntax is. If I am supposed to go back that boot screen and choose the first option Live System (Tivo partitions).... I don't know how to do that.
> 
> Let me know what other info I can provide.
> 
> View attachment 67863
> 
> 
> View attachment 67864


It looks like the default boot is with the -tivo kernel. You would need to choose the third option for the kernel choices to boot standard kernel. 

I have not tested the tools with the -tivo kernels and am wondering if that is the issue. 

Will PM you to start fixing this. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JoJetSki

jmbach said:


> It looks like the default boot is with the -tivo kernel. You would need to choose the third option for the kernel choices to boot standard kernel.
> 
> I have not tested the tools with the -tivo kernels and am wondering if that is the issue.
> 
> Will PM you to start fixing this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I know the first option is highlight but that is not what I chose, I chose the third option (every time). That was just a screen shot showing all the options...not the one I chose.


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## jmbach

JoJetSki said:


> I know the first option is highlight but that is not what I chose, I chose the third option (every time). That was just a screen shot showing all the options...not the one I chose.


Interesting. Will have to do some testing to see why it failed like it did. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## adam3914

I am having the exact same issue as JoJetSki. I copied the drive, then added the partition then I get the same error running the fix command. I tried both the tivo partition option and the normal option during boot with the same results.


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## jmbach

adam3914 said:


> I am having the exact same issue as JoJetSki. I copied the drive, then added the partition then I get the same error running the fix command. I tried both the tivo partition option and the normal option during boot with the same results.


I found a small error in the code on the github site. The code is corrected and waiting on it to be incorporated into the main branch. If you wish I can help you correct your current image so it will work. Just would wait until the code is incorporated into the main branch before expanding any further. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## jmbach

The main branch has been updated with the fixes. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## adam3914

Thank you, this solved my problem. I downloaded the newest iso from github and used the tivo partitions option because that seems to be what the github page recommends, and everything seems to work.


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## jmbach

adam3914 said:


> Thank you, this solved my problem. I downloaded the newest iso from github and used the tivo partitions option because that seems to be what the github page recommends, and everything seems to work.


Can you post the mfsinfo -d output
Just want to make sure it is correct. 
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## JoJetSki

jmbach said:


> I found a small error in the code on the github site. The code is corrected and waiting on it to be incorporated into the main branch. If you wish I can help you correct your current image so it will work. Just would wait until the code is incorporated into the main branch before expanding any further.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


The new image solved my problem and I was able to add the extra partitions and now I have an 8 TB roamio. Went from 10% free space to 70% free space. Thanks to JMBach who helped me out and then found the small issue with the current ISO so Equinoxe could post a new iso. Thanks to all for your hard work.


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## adam3914

jmbach said:


> Can you post the mfsinfo -d output
> Just want to make sure it is correct.
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Can you give a quick explanation of what you are looking for in all this info?












Code:


[email protected]:"$ sudo nfsinfo -d
/dev/sda
MFS Volune Header (64-bit)
state=0 magic-ebbafeed
deulist-/dev/sda10 /dev/sda11 /dev/sda12 /dev/sda13 /dev/sda2 /dev/sda3 zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs-7805122560 next_fsid=4038774
MFS volume set for /dev/sda
The MFS volune Partition
set Sectors
contains 6 partitions
Size
/dev/sda10
1638400
800 MiB 423289 MiB
/dev/sda11 866895872
/dev/sda12 1638400
800 MiB
/dev/sda13 1074438144
524628 MiB
/dev/sda2 4278191104
2088960 MiB 772617 MiB
/dev/sda3 1582320640 Total MFS sectors: 7805122560
Total MFS volume size: 3811095 MiB
Total Inodes: 524288
Zone Maps
Zone 0: type=0 logstamp-25253459 checksum-3439775393 first-1122 last-525409
sector=1121 sbackup-1638398 length=1
size=524288 min-524288 free-524288 zero-0 num=1 next_sector-525410 next_sbackup-1638364 next_length-34
next size=866877440 next_min=20480 Zone 1: type=2 logstamp-25259159 checksum-234301934 first-1638400 last-868515839
sector-525410 sbackup-1638364 length-34 size=866877440 min-20480 free-22200320 zero-0 num=17
next_sector-525444 next_sbackup-1638234 next_length=130
next size-1112656 next_min=8
Zone 2: type=1 logstamp-25259159 checksum-997068015 first-525574 last=1638229
sector-525444 sbackup-1638234 length=130 size=1112656 min-8 free-1054592 zero-0 num=19
next_sector-868534272 next_sbackup-870172671 next_length=1
next size=524288 next_min=524288
Zone 3: type=0 logstamp-25253459 checksum-1826620146 sector-868534272 sbackup-870172671 length=1
first-868534273 last=869058560
size=524288 min-524288 free-524288 zero-0 num=1
next_sector-869058561 next_sbackup-870172637 next_length=34 next_size=1074421760 next_min=20480
Zone 4: type=2 logstamp-25259159 checksun- 22781 first-870172672 last=1944594431
sector-869058561 sbackup-870172637 length=34
size=1074421760 min=20480 free-36843520 zero-0 num=17 next_sector-869058595 next_sbackup-870172507 next_length=130
next_size=1113776_next_min=8 Zone 5: type=1 logstamp-2 p=25258515 checksum-3839544230 first-869058725 last=870172500
sector=869058595 sbackup-870172507 length=130 size=1113776 min-8 free-1109168 zero-0 num=19
next_sector=1944610817 next_sbackup-1944611709 next_length=130
next_size=4278190080 next_min-20480
Zone 6: type=2_logstamp-25259159 checksum=1259296489 first-1944611840 last-6222801919 sector 1944610817 sbackup-1944611709 length=130 size=4278190080 min-20
min=20480 free-4184678400 zero-0 num-19
next_sector-6222 r-6222801921 next_sbackup-6222802877 next length=66 next size-1582305280 next_min=20480
Zone 7: type=2 logstamp=25259159 checksum=1504095959 first-6222802914 last-7805108223
sector-6222801921 sbackup-6222802877 length=66 size=1582305280 min-20480 free-1512960000 zero-0 num-18
next sector=0 next_sbackup-0 next_length=0 next size=0 next_min-0
partition table for /dev/sda
[#称]:
Name 1st Sector
Sectors
Next
[01]: 63 [021]: MFS application/media region 1953525168 4278191104 6231716272
Apple
64
[031: MFS application/media region 6231716272 1582320896 7814037168 [04]:
Root 1 1074438720
8 1074438728
[05]:
Bootstrap 2 1074438728
8 1074438736
[06]:
Kernel 2 1074438736
8 1074438744
[07]: [08]:
Root 2 1074438744
8 1074438752
Linux suap 1074438752 1048576 1075487328
[09]:
/var 1075487328 1572864 1077060192
[10]: MFS application region 1083351648 1638400 1084990048
[11]:
MFS media region 1086628448 866896720 1953525168
[12]: MFS application region 2 1084990048 1638400 1086628448
[13]:
MFS media region 2
64 1074438640 1074438704
[14]:
SQLite 1077060192 6291456 1083351648
Estimated hours in a standalone TiVo: 4770 This MFS volume may be expanded 3 more times
[email protected]:"$


----------



## jmbach

Mainly congruency between the MFS sizes and partitions displayed on top and the partition size and structure displayed on the bottom

If you did something like add info to the MFS header without the appropriate partition structure and size, the TiVo will boot okay but may error out when it tried to record in that region. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## JoJetSki

jmbach said:


> Mainly congruency between the MFS sizes and partitions displayed on top and the partition size and structure displayed on the bottom
> 
> If you did something like add info to the MFS header without the appropriate partition structure and size, the TiVo will boot okay but may error out when it tried to record in that region.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


I did an mfsadd and it said there was no more space to add so I stopped with my drive expansion. I did not run the mfsaddfix, I am assuming because it said there was no more space to add I will be fine.


----------



## jmbach

JoJetSki said:


> I did an mfsadd and it said there was no more space to add so I stopped with my drive expansion. I did not run the mfsaddfix, I am assuming because it said there was no more space to add I will be fine.


If mfsadd did not add anything then no mfsaddfix needs to be ran. 

How many mfsadd/mfsaddfix did you run on the drive? 

With an 8 TB drive you should have ran two of the mfsadd/mfsaddfix cycles to fully expand it after running the mfscopy command. 


Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


----------



## JoJetSki

jmbach said:


> If mfsadd did not add anything then no mfsaddfix needs to be ran.
> 
> How many mfsadd/mfsaddfix did you run on the drive?
> 
> With an 8 TB drive you should have ran two of the mfsadd/mfsaddfix cycles to fully expand it after running the mfscopy command.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Yes. I ran two and the third attempt is when I got the message "no space to add".


----------



## jmbach

JoJetSki said:


> Yes. I ran two and the third attempt is when I got the message "no space to add".


That males sense. Every cycle add 2 TiB. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## bsbd

I'm finally diving-in the deep end and preparing to replace the original 3TB drive in my Roamio Pro TE3 with a WD84PURZ 8TB drive. 

Since there's been no activity here for a while I'm wondering where things stand now for which option to use, the "4.19.225 (tivo partions)" or "4.19.0-18" standard version. I've seen older posts from @jmbach stressing to use the standard version because he hadn't tested the -tivo version, but in January just after this latest 3.34-3 ISO went up there was a post from user @adam3914 saying he used the -tivo version successfully. The github notes say "Use the -tivo variant to recognize Tivo APM ext partitions and make them mountable." I have no idea what APM ext partitions are what the ramifications would be either way. Is there any reason to not use the -tivo version for a Roamio Pro now? And what are the failsafe versions for?

Second quesion: I have an old Dell Latitude laptop that I was planning on using. As I would expect, Linux and MFSTools load and execute more quickly from a USB flash drive than from a CD, so I'd rather operate from the flash drive. However I get this warning from MFSTools only when using the flash drive, not when using the CD:

[email protected]: $ [ 16.106359] ACPI: \_SB_.PCI0.PEG0.VID_: failed to evaluate _DSM

Hitting ENTER takes me back to a [email protected]: prompt with no error message. From there I'm able execute the lsblk command and as far as I can tell everything seems normal, so I'm hoping this is nothing serious and can be ignored. Should I be concerned?

Thanks for any insight.


----------



## jmbach

bsbd said:


> I'm finally diving-in the deep end and preparing to replace the original 3TB drive in my Roamio Pro TE3 with a WD84PURZ 8TB drive.
> 
> Since there's been no activity here for a while I'm wondering where things stand now for which option to use, the "4.19.225 (tivo partions)" or "4.19.0-18" standard version. I've seen older posts from @jmbach stressing to use the standard version because he hadn't tested the -tivo version, but in January just after this latest 3.34-3 ISO went up there was a post from user @adam3914 saying he used the -tivo version successfully. The github notes say "Use the -tivo variant to recognize Tivo APM ext partitions and make them mountable." I have no idea what APM ext partitions are what the ramifications would be either way. Is there any reason to not use the -tivo version for a Roamio Pro now? And what are the failsafe versions for?


The APM is the partition table on the drive for the TiVo. The type of partition is ext.



bsbd said:


> Second quesion: I have an old Dell Latitude laptop that I was planning on using. As I would expect, Linux and MFSTools load and execute more quickly from a USB flash drive than from a CD, so I'd rather operate from the flash drive. However I get this warning from MFSTools only when using the flash drive, not when using the CD:
> 
> [email protected]: $ [ 16.106359] ACPI: \_SB_.PCI0.PEG0.VID_: failed to evaluate _DSM
> 
> Hitting ENTER takes me back to a [email protected]: prompt with no error message. From there I'm able execute the lsblk command and as far as I can tell everything seems normal, so I'm hoping this is nothing serious and can be ignored. Should I be concerned?
> 
> Thanks for any insight.


I am not sure about that error. It looks like it is a video card error. Some one else may be tell us more. 

I find that MFSTools runs fast inside of Windows WSL.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## bsbd

jmbach said:


> I am not sure about that error. It looks like it is a video card error.


Agreed, which is why I thought it was likely of no consequence. It's just odd that it shows up (once) just after booting from the USB flash drive and not at all when booting from a CD on the same computer. I'm not going to worry about it.



jmbach said:


> I find that MFSTools runs fast inside of Windows WSL.


Interesting, thanks, I'll have to check that out.



jmbach said:


> The APM is the partition table on the drive for the TiVo. The type of partition is ext.


Apologies for being so dense, but it's still not clear to me if anything has changed from the previous build that would make it better to run 3.34-3 with the -tivo option. What I'm wondering is if there are any essential fixes in 4.19.225 -tivo that aren't also present in 4.19.0-18 standard, and if I use the standard will my Roamio care about mfstools/add/fix not setting up the APM partition table.


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## jmbach

bsbd said:


> Agreed, which is why I thought it was likely of no consequence. It's just odd that it shows up (once) just after booting from the USB flash drive and not at all when booting from a CD on the same computer. I'm not going to worry about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, thanks, I'll have to check that out.
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies for being so dense, but it's still not clear to me if anything has changed from the previous build that would make it better to run 3.34-3 with the -tivo option. What I'm wondering is if there are any essential fixes in 4.19.225 -tivo that aren't also present in 4.19.0-18 standard, and if I use the standard will my Roamio care about mfstools/add/fix not setting up the APM partition table.


I would recommend not using the -tivo option if you are going to use the ancillary tools to expand your drive. 

In actuality I am not sure if the tools will fail if it is booted with the -tivo option. 

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## bsbd

jmbach said:


> I would recommend not using the -tivo option if you are going to use the ancillary tools to expand your drive.
> 
> In actuality I am not sure if the tools will fail if it is booted with the -tivo option.


Great. Thanks very much for that, I'll go with the standard version once I've finished with the WD read/write/read tests.

Fortunately I'm not seeing many signs yet that my Roamio's original 3TB drive is about to fail, so hopefully that's going to improve the odds in my favor. I will be heeding your sage advice and returning the new drive to the TiVo chassis after the initial mfscopy and again after each add+addfix expansion to make sure it boots and successfully connects to service before proceeding.

I've seen you mention that it's a good idea to do a KS 58 even when no problems are apparent. I think you meant doing the kickstarts each stage _after_ the successful boots & connections, assuming it gets that far, rather than doing them first. Correct? For a new 8TB drive I would then do a total of three KS 58's.


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## bsbd

I'm not freaking out yet, but I am a little concerned that my TE3 Roamio Pro doesn't seem to be able to complete a KS 58.

I did the 3TB-->8TB mfscopy to create the initial 4TB image which booted fine and successfully connected to TiVo network service. Recording capacity went up to 699 HD hours and My Shows reports 63% full vs 91% previously. Cablecard/TA settings are still there, The to-do's, guide info and icons all look fine.

I followed what I think is the recommendation and did a KS 58 before proceeding on to the first mfsadd+fix expansion . I let it run for more that 3 hours on the "Installing an update. This will take a few minutes" screen. Since @jmbach said KS 58 shouldn't take more than 3 hours I pulled the plug at about 3 hours and 20 minutes just to see if I was hosed.

I re-applied power and again it booted-up fine and successfully connected to service. I even let it record a scheduled show. Then I tried another KS 58 and given it even longer, now 6 hours and counting stuck on the Installing an update screen.

I don't know what else to do that won't dig me in deeper. After all I've read and as long as it boots and operates normally I'm certainly not planning to do a KS 57.

I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and do the two expansions to utilize the full 8TB and not worry now that it won't do a KS 58.


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## tommage1

bsbd said:


> I'm not freaking out yet, but I am a little concerned that my TE3 Roamio Pro doesn't seem to be able to complete a KS 58.
> 
> I did the 3TB-->8TB mfscopy to create the initial 4TB image which booted fine and successfully connected to TiVo network service. Recording capacity went up to 699 HD hours and My Shows reports 63% full vs 91% previously. Cablecard/TA settings are still there, The to-do's, guide info and icons all look fine.
> 
> I followed what I think is the recommendation and did a KS 58 before proceeding on to the first mfsadd+fix expansion . I let it run for more that 3 hours on the "Installing an update. This will take a few minutes" screen. Since @jmbach said KS 58 shouldn't take more than 3 hours I pulled the plug at about 3 hours and 20 minutes just to see if I was hosed.
> 
> I re-applied power and again it booted-up fine and successfully connected to service. I even let it record a scheduled show. Then I tried another KS 58 and I've already waited even longer than last time, 4-1/2 hours so far, still stuck on the Installing an update screen.
> 
> I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and do the two expansions to utilize the full 8TB and not worry that it won't do a KS 58.


Probably best to hear from JMBach on this but I think the KS58s are just a precaution. You could probably do the whole procedure without them, I have. Since this is a Roamio as long as you keep the original drive intact can start over anytime. Yeah, the initial copy can take awhile. I run 58 occasionally if I am having any issues, can clean up some problems that have developed over time.


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## tommage1

You know I think I ran the 58 after the entire procedure was done, so being done on a fully expanded drive. Doing it after each step, the first couple would be on a drive with empty space. Maybe 58 does not work under those conditions.


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## jmbach

bsbd said:


> I'm not freaking out yet, but I am a little concerned that my TE3 Roamio Pro doesn't seem to be able to complete a KS 58.
> 
> I did the 3TB-->8TB mfscopy to create the initial 4TB image which booted fine and successfully connected to TiVo network service. Recording capacity went up to 699 HD hours and My Shows reports 63% full vs 91% previously. Cablecard/TA settings are still there, The to-do's, guide info and icons all look fine.
> 
> I followed what I think is the recommendation and did a KS 58 before proceeding on to the first mfsadd+fix expansion . I let it run for more that 3 hours on the "Installing an update. This will take a few minutes" screen. Since @jmbach said KS 58 shouldn't take more than 3 hours I pulled the plug at about 3 hours and 20 minutes just to see if I was hosed.
> 
> I re-applied power and again it booted-up fine and successfully connected to service. I even let it record a scheduled show. Then I tried another KS 58 and I've already waited even longer than last time, 4-1/2 hours so far, still stuck on the Installing an update screen.
> 
> I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and do the two expansions to utilize the full 8TB and not worry that it won't do a KS 58. After all I've read I'm certainly not planning to do a KS 57 as long as I don't see any issues with daily use.


If KS 58 does not complete on the copy, many times it does not complete on the original drive as well. It is not a deal breaker. One of my TiVos never finished a KS 58. Another one finished it after the OS updated. No one knows for sure what any of the KS actually do, just surmise what it does from the description in the OS. 

I would force the Roamio to connect to the TiVo servers 2 or 3 times and make sure the connection goes to completion. If it does just continue on to the next steps. The KS 58 mainly fixed, when it can, the issue where it would not finished a TiVo connection. 



Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## bsbd

Thank you both, I'm encouraged.



jmbach said:


> If KS 58 does not complete on the copy, many times it does not complete on the original drive as well.


This may very well be true. The original drive really wasn't behaving badly, and there were no warnings reported when I ran CrystalDiskInfo, but I had never done a kickstart of any kind on it so who knows if it would have made it through. I'll never know!




jmbach said:


> I would force the Roamio to connect to the TiVo servers 2 or 3 times and make sure the connection goes to completion. If it does just continue on to the next steps. The KS 58 mainly fixed, when it can, the issue where it would not finished a TiVo connection.


OK, I just aborted this 2nd KS 58 attempt after 7 hours. Again it booted up fine and everything looks normal, and I just did three successive and successful connections. I had done 2 connections after the 1st KS 58 attempt. Evidently there wasn't any guide data to download, the final Loading info takes it's usual time while displaying "(preparing to load)", then (Done) pops up rather than showing progress percentage which I've always thought was usually guide data. I'll have to keep trying that the next couple of days to see if I can catch it downloading data.

OK, I'm off to expand the drive!


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## bsbd

Good news! No problem doing the two expansions+fixes, and now I have 1281 HD hours recording capacity which I presume is correct for an 8TB drive. My recordings are now taking up 34% of the drive vs 91% of 3TB. Great!

Bootup continues to be normal, and I did three consecutive connections after each expansion with TiVo reporting "succeeded" after each pass. I'll be glad when I finally see guide data download during a connection. If I was a glutton for punishment I might try another KS 58, but for now I'm going to leave that one alone.

FYI, I did end up using the standard version, not the -tivo one. I'm optimistic about this WD84PURZ drive and was thrilled to see it actually requires fewer watts than the original drive so that should make the power supply happy.

I can't thank those responsible enough for all their contributions!


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## tommage1

bsbd said:


> Good news! No problem doing the two expansions+fixes, and now I have 1281 HD hours recording capacity which I presume is correct for an 8TB drive. My recordings are now taking up 34% of the drive vs 91% of 3TB. Great!
> 
> Bootup continues to be normal, and I did three consecutive connections after each expansion with TiVo reporting "succeeded" after each pass. I'll be glad when I finally see guide data download during a connection. If I was a glutton for punishment I might try another KS 58, but for now I'm going to leave that one alone.
> 
> FYI, I did end up using the standard version, not the -tivo one. I'm optimistic about this WD84PURZ drive and was thrilled to see it actually requires fewer watts than the original drive so that should make the power supply happy.
> 
> I can't thank those responsible enough for all their contributions!


You are in great shape. The Roamio Plus/Pro is the Cadillac of Tivos with the 4 tuner Roamio Basic second, IMO. And a great drive (kind of interesting, I noticed the 8TB Purple Pro is only like $10 more than the 84PURZ with 5 year warranty but don't know what you paid for yours, great drive regardless)

If curious you could run the 58 now that the project is complete. That is what I did with mine. The green screen is kinda just a generic info screen, if your drive was not up to date OS wise it MIGHT try to install an actual update, but your is already up to date. Should take less than 1/2 hour, very quick. If still freezes up for an hour or more unplug and reboot. Or just leave well enough alone 

Congrats!


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## bsbd

tommage1 said:


> You are in great shape. The Roamio Plus/Pro is the Cadillac of Tivos with the 4 tuner Roamio Basic second, IMO. And a great drive (kind of interesting, I noticed the 8TB Purple Pro is only like $10 more than the 84PURZ with 5 year warranty but don't know what you paid for yours, great drive regardless)


It was about $190 on Amazon. I've seen complaints in reviews about not being able to do warranty registration for drives purchased from some Amazon 3rd party sellers, so I made sure to specify one sold and shipped by Amazon. I had no trouble doing the warranty registration on WD's website using the serial number.

The WD84PURZ was the sweet spot for me, not only because it was about all I was willing to spend but also because it was the largest purple drive that operated at 5640 rpm. The ones 10TB and larger are 7200 rpm. Also, I didn't discover it until later, but this drive draws 26% less power than the Roamio Pro's original 3TB WD30EURS (6.18W vs 8.4W). So in theory that should ease the load on the power supply and the extra efficiency implies less energy wasted in heat.



tommage1 said:


> If curious you could run the 58 now that the project is complete. That is what I did with mine. The green screen is kinda just a generic info screen, if your drive was not up to date OS wise it MIGHT try to install an actual update, but your is already up to date. Should take less than 1/2 hour, very quick. If still freezes up for an hour or more unplug and reboot. Or just leave well enough alone


OK, I'm too easy, I went ahead and gave KS 58 another go. After 3 hours on the "Installing an update" screen I pulled the plug. Just. Not. Going. To. Do. It.

The first connection after rebooting just now was the 1st time since the copy & expansions that I saw "Loading Info" downloading something. I presume it was program guide data (edit: yep, confirmed!). It slowly counted up to 100% without getting hung, so there's another positive sign despite KS 58 not being able to finish.


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## bsbd

So here's a small update after a few days on the new 8TB drive in my Roamio Pro:

On the whole everything is chugging along: I always get successful TiVo Service Connections and guide data downloads. Shows are recording and playing back and the tuner buffering works fine. It still won't complete a KS 58 but it has always booted up fine after trying.

There is however one problem, I've discovered a few shows among the recordings copied over from the original 3TB drive that won't play and can't be permanently deleted. I can delete them from My Shows and they do go to the Recently Deleted Recordings folder, but then they can't be permanently deleted -- they're still there even after rebooting. With gobs of disk space now I guess they'll never flush out of the RDR folder and will be there forever to haunt me.

Perhaps KS 57 would fix this but I'm too scared to try it after the horror stories I've read. There are already several new copy-protected recordings on the new drive that I would lose if I reverted back to the original 3TB drive, so I've painted myself in a bit of a corner. I suppose I'll have to consider getting another 8TB drive to clone this one to so I can revert back if a KS 57 hoses the other drive.


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## jmbach

bsbd said:


> So here's a small update after a few days on the new 8TB drive in my Roamio Pro:
> 
> On the whole everything is chugging along: I always get successful TiVo Service Connections and guide data downloads. Shows are recording and playing back and the tuner buffering works fine. It still won't complete a KS 58 but it has always booted up fine after trying.
> 
> There is however one problem, I've discovered a few shows among the recordings copied over from the original 3TB drive that won't play and can't be permanently deleted. I can delete them from My Shows and they do go to the Recently Deleted Recordings folder, but then they can't be permanently deleted -- they're still there even after rebooting. With gobs of disk space now I guess they'll never flush out of the RDR folder and will be there forever to haunt me.
> 
> Perhaps KS 57 would fix this but I'm too scared to try it after the horror stories I've read. There are already several new copy-protected recordings on the new drive that I would lose if I reverted back to the original 3TB drive, so I've painted myself in a bit of a corner. I suppose I'll have to consider getting another 8TB drive to clone this one to so I can revert back if a KS 57 hoses the other drive.


In my experience the KS 57 never finishes on a Roamio.... even with a freshly formatted drive. Now that was about 2 years pr so when I tried it and it may work on recent OS updates. (Won't hold my breath on that one)

If a KS 57 won't let it boot 3xcept back into a KS 57, you can mfsck in MFSTools to mark the drive good so it would boot normal again.

KS 57 may fix a few things before it gets stuck. I just don't know how far it gets before it locks up. 

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## bsbd

jmbach said:


> In my experience the KS 57 never finishes on a Roamio.... even with a freshly formatted drive. Now that was about 2 years pr so when I tried it and it may work on recent OS updates. (Won't hold my breath on that one)
> 
> If a KS 57 won't let it boot 3xcept back into a KS 57, you can mfsck in MFSTools to mark the drive good so it would boot normal again.
> 
> KS 57 may fix a few things before it gets stuck. I just don't know how far it gets before it locks up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks for that, in that case I'm staying away from KS 57 for now.

Since posting that last message I've found several more shows that won't play, and worse, for the first time I managed to lock-up the TiVo when trying to play them by pressing Select to accept the Error message instead of just backing out with a left arrow. I had to pull the plug and reboot several times.

I have a hunch: I just remembered that I got a couple of alert messages within mfscopy that I had attributed to the computer being very underpowered and slow. I didn't think much else of it at the time since the alerts were labeled "INFO". Reviewing some screenshots now I see the first came at the 3.37% progress mark which was an INFO alert about a NMI Handler taking too long to run. The second, at the 37%mark, was a repeat of the first alert immediately followed by "interrupt took too long, lowering kernel.perf_event_max_sample.rate to 8000.

Now I'm wondering if it's relevant that the problem programs I've found so far were recorded in the days just before the mfscopy procedure, so perhaps they were the ones being copied around the time I got the alert at the 3% progress mark? Could be, I suppose, although I have no idea where they are on the disk. And who knows what dates would have been affected at the 37% mark. Could be another time bomb waiting to go off.

I'm going feel better starting this all over. I now have access to a much better computer than I used before. I just ordered a second 8TB drive and once it arrives the day after tomorrow I'll start the process all over again using the original 3TB and the new drive. Having the 2nd drive will give me a little breathing room since we have just the one TiVo and downtime is painful.


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## tommage1

Not sure if asked or posted, but did you run a SMART (maybe Crystal disk info) on the original drive? To see if any errors, before starting the project. Pretty much an immediate result, just reads smart info off the drive. Just make sure when you put in computer you do NOT initialize or format the drive, computer will not recognize since it's in Linux/Tivo format but you can run the Crystal disk test with the drive as is. If you initialize/format you will lose all your Tivo info/software/recordings etc.

If you are going to start over off the original drive I'd say don't bother with the KS58s, just put in and check connections after each step.


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## bsbd

tommage1 said:


> Not sure if asked or posted, but did you run a SMART (maybe Crystal disk info) on the original drive? To see if any errors, before starting the project. Pretty much an immediate result, just reads smart info off the drive. Just make sure when you put in computer you do NOT initialize or format the drive, computer will not recognize since it's in Linux/Tivo format but you can run the Crystal disk test with the drive as is. If you initialize/format you will lose all your Tivo info/software/recordings etc.
> 
> If you are going to start over off the original drive I'd say don't bother with the KS58s, just put in and check connections after each step.


Thanks for that.

Things were getting progressively worse, e.g. service connections began failing every time when Loading Info, so yesterday I re-installed the original 3TB drive and the Roamio Pro is happy again. One of the first things I tried was playing one of the recorded shows that wouldn't play from the 8TB drive. As I had hoped, the original recording played fine.

I'd wager that a KS 58 on the original drive would successfully complete, and it might even be a good idea to try some clean up before using it for a 2nd mfscopy attempt, but I can't bring myself to do it since I don't know for sure that running the KS 58 on the same data on the new 8TB didn't cause the original problem. I've been running CrystalDiskInfo on all old and new drives before and after each procedure along the way, and everything has always looked good (no yellow warnings).

I mentioned before how mfscopy displayed a couple of alerts during its process perhaps due to the computer being underpowered. Well the day before yesterday that same computer died, couldn't find the C: boot drive. I had to re-do the SATA drive cable connections and now it's not only back but it also seems to be running with a lot less disk churning. So it's entirely possible that SATA cabling issues corrupted the mfscopy.

I received another WD84PURZ yesterday and started the WD Lifeguard tests on it. Although I'm using a faster computer this time the duration of the 1st WD extended read test was roughly the same as before, about 14 hours.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to attempt another mfscopy to this new drive. While that's happening I'll temporarily use the problematic 8TB drive in the TiVo.


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## tommage1

bsbd said:


> 'd wager that a KS 58 on the original drive would successfully complete, and it might even be a good idea to try some clean up before using it for a 2nd mfscopy attempt, but I can't bring myself to do it for fear of that being the cause of the original problem. I've been running CrystalDiskInfo on all old and new drives before and after each procedure along the way, and everything has always looked good (no yellow warnings).


You COULD I suppose, since you are having problems. However KS are Tivo programmed, a long time ago, not even sure how well they work on later models, even Roamio (since Roamio and up have a flash drive along with the HD). For sure never tested on 8TB drive (other than Tivo users), heck they came out in the early days so maybe largest drive actually tested by Tivo with them would be a 2TB Premiere drive? I'd just skip 'em, only time I'd run one now is I am having issues. And nice idea to have a copy/clone before trying, got a spare 3TB sitting around?


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## bsbd

tommage1 said:


> And nice idea to have a copy/clone before trying, got a spare 3TB sitting around?


We're of the same mind on that, but alas, no spare 3TB. I'll have to see how this 2nd try goes, my understanding is that I could always wipe the problematic 8TB and then do a straight clone from the 3TB and use that to play around with kickstarts. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.


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## bsbd

Well I'm pretty disappointed, after re-doing everything from scratch with a different 8TB target drive and a better computer I still have a problem playing back a few recordings. I tested one particular show immediately after mfscopy and before the first mfsadd+mfsaddfix and KS 58 rather than waiting until the whole process was complete like before.

This is the error message box I get:

*Error playing a recording*​The TiVo box was not able to record this program​because there was no video signal on the channel. You​may have been trying to record on a channel that you​don't receive.​*Press SELECT to continue*​
I get this despite the fact the same show plays fine on the original 3TB source drive. The vast majority of other shows play back fine on the new target drive. When I get this message pressing SELECT locks-up the TiVo, I have to back out of it with the left-arrow key.

So I've ruled out the 8TB drive, the computer hardware, and the KS 58 actually causing this problem. The fact that the problem sticks with the same show(s) lead me to believe something may be wrong on the source recording, bad enough to keep it from being copied but not bad enough to keep it from being played from the original drive.

After this I went ahead and expanded the drive to the full 8TB, and I just started an HDD Raw Copy clone to the other 8TB so I'll have a sacrificial test dummy drive. Based on the fact that KS 58 didn't complete on the other 8TB drive I'll probably try a KS 57 on this one.

Which brings me to my question if anybody knows: It's nice to be able to simply revert back to the original 3TB drive as I'm trying out different things with other drives. I'm counting on kickstarts # 57 & 58 not being destructive to anything else in the Roamio besides the hard drive (i.e., flash memory) that would prevent me from always being able to revert back to the original drive. It would be great if anyone could confirm!


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## tommage1

I know you have been running crystal disk on each drive as progression goes on and get all "blue" but have you looked at the actual raw numbers for moved/pending sectors? Drives can be somewhat ok even with some moved sectors but still not ideal. And perhaps more so with a Tivo. I had a couple drives fail in Tivos. They were "all blue" also, but did have moved sectors. Worked ok in computer. Just not in Tivos.

As for errors, I've run into them myself. Same one you just got. Also some programs that could not be deleted or permanently deleted. KS 58 fixed some of the deletion type. But won't run for you. You COULD try cloning the 3 to an 8 (or don't you have a 4TB intermediary drive also?) then run the KS58 on the cloned (not original) drive.


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## tommage1

On, the program that says did not record after transfer, maybe try deleting and restoring on the ORIGINAL drive before starting the process. Maybe it will move it somewhere else on the drive after a delete and restore. Maybe even do another couple recordings BEFORE restoring it, shake things up a bit before the restore.


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## tommage1

And actually the one of the drives that failed in a Tivo (some moved sectors), it showed all blue as I mentioned. I went ahead and formatted it in the computer. The put it back in the Tivo and let the Tivo format it. Then seems to work. Though would not use permanently in the Tivo, just interesting that it did work after blanking and letting the Tivo reformat, basically starting from scratch.


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## tommage1

One final thought (at least for now), did you know if a person has been running their Tivo for a good amount of time the drive will always be COMPLETELY full? May show 75% recordings or whatever, BUT that number does not include recordings in recently deleted. So will always be completely full, UNLESS you go in and permanently delete recordings in the recently deleted folder. If Tivo shows 75% it will be 100% including recently deleted, if you go in and permanently delete all the recently deleted programs then the drive itself will really only be 75% full. When a drive is always running completely full who know what happens when something like a moved sector happens, or any minor error. Always a good idea to clean up that recently deleted folder occasionally to keep the drive under 100% full.


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## bsbd

tommage1 said:


> I know you have been running crystal disk on each drive as progression goes on and get all "blue" but have you looked at the actual raw numbers for moved/pending sectors? Drives can be somewhat ok even with some moved sectors but still not ideal. And perhaps more so with a Tivo. I had a couple drives fail in Tivos. They were "all blue" also, but did have moved sectors. Worked ok in computer. Just not in Tivos.


If I'm reading it right the original drive doesn't have any relocated sectors. It's the Raw Values column, right?










If that's so, then my new 8TB target drives are OK too.



tommage1 said:


> You COULD try cloning the 3 to an 8 (or don't you have a 4TB intermediary drive also?) then run the KS58 on the cloned (not original) drive.


After exhausting the possibilities with the cloned 8TB my next move was going to be to clone the original 3TB and do as you suggest and run KS 58 on that clone.



tommage1 said:


> On, the program that says did not record after transfer, maybe try deleting and restoring on the ORIGINAL drive before starting the process. Maybe it will move it somewhere else on the drive after a delete and restore. Maybe even do another couple recordings BEFORE restoring it, shake things up a bit before the restore.


Interesting thought. I guess it depends on whether deleting actually moves the file or just flips a bit marking it deleted. Certainly worth a try before doing another mfscopy. It should be noted that once the problem files have been copied over not only can't they be played, they also can't be permanently deleted from the RDP folder. With an 8TB drive they will languish forever.


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## tommage1

Your original drive looks good, no sector problems. About 3.5 years use, still very good for a 3.5", can go 5-10 years.

If I was starting fresh myself, here is what I would do. First write down all the "problem" recordings that occured after the project. Then take the original drive and delete ALL the recordings in the recently deleted folder (so drive is not 100% full). Then delete all the "problem" recordings from the original, leave them in the recently deleted folder which should now be empty. Then do maybe 5-10 recordings to shake things up, move things around. Then restore the "problem" recordings. Then can either proceed from there, or delete the 5-10 new recordings, or delete and permanently delete the 5-10 recordings. Then proceed.


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## bsbd

tommage1 said:


> If I was starting fresh myself, here is what I would do. First write down all the "problem" recordings that occured after the project. Then take the original drive and delete ALL the recordings in the recently deleted folder (so drive is not 100% full). Then delete all the "problem" recordings from the original, leave them in the recently deleted folder which should now be empty. Then do maybe 5-10 recordings to shake things up, move things around. Then restore the "problem" recordings. Then can either proceed from there, or delete the 5-10 new recordings, or delete and permanently delete the 5-10 recordings. Then proceed.


Unfortunately I don't know all the recordings that may be compromised. I remembered the title of this particular one and I recall discovering several others within a certain time range, but I'd have to find them and there may be more. It will take a lot of time if I decide to go that route eventually. 

Once the 8TB-->8TB cloning is done I'll try KS 58 first and then if that doesn't work try a KS 57. As I mentioned, I just hope KS 57 doesn't affect other parts of the TiVo like flash memory so I can revert back to the original drive if needed as I've been doing.


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## tommage1

bsbd said:


> Once the 8TB-->8TB cloning is done I'll try KS 58 first and then if that doesn't work try a KS 57. As I mentioned, I just hope KS 57 doesn't affect other parts of the TiVo like flash memory so I can revert back to the original drive if needed as I've been doing.


You can, but 57 on Roamios usually semi "brick it", gets stuck at the green screen. Then have to use MFSCK to fix the boot sector. While doing all the copies/clones maybe start permanently deleting all the original drive recently deleted. A good thing to do even if not working on a project, not great to run a drive at 100% full all the time, especially in a 24/7 Tivo. At least IMO. Oh, takes awhile to permanently delete that many recordings, quickest way is start at top of list, hit "clear", then confirm, then repeat. At least 100-200 if not all, get it below 100%.


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## jmbach

bsbd said:


> Unfortunately I don't know all the recordings that may be compromised. I remembered the title of this particular one and I recall discovering several others within a certain time range, but I'd have to find them and there may be more. It will take a lot of time if I decide to go that route eventually.
> 
> Once the 8TB-->8TB cloning is done I'll try KS 58 first and then if that doesn't work try a KS 57. As I mentioned, I just hope KS 57 doesn't affect other parts of the TiVo like flash memory so I can revert back to the original drive if needed as I've been doing.


Are there any recordings that can play successfully after you copied the drive?

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## pl1

tommage1 said:


> Oh, takes awhile to permanently delete that many recordings, quickest way is start at top of list, hit "clear", then confirm, then repeat. At least 100-200 if not all, get it below 100%.


A real quick way to permanently delete is with kmttg. You can select all of them at once with one button press.


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## bsbd

jmbach said:


> Are there any recordings that can play successfully after you copied the drive?


Yes, I would say the vast majority of the copied shows I checked played OK. The shows I was checking were mostly ones recorded in the past several of months, I'll have to go back farther when I try putting the copied 8TB back in after it finishes cloning.


----------



## bsbd

pl1 said:


> A real quick way to permanently delete is with kmttg. You can select all of them at once with one button press.


Good info, thanks. I haven't been able to get kmttg working yet, probably a java issue, but that would be great if I could do that.


----------



## Morocco Mole

Hoping someone can assist. I've done Tivo upgrades in the past but this one really is challenging for me.

Trying to put 12TB in Roamio

put in 500GB original drive and let the Roamio format it.
Tivo boots up fine and goes through guided set up to completion (where it says you can use Tivo while it loads 2 weeks guide data)
connect the 500GB and new 12TB
following instructions and using MFSTools, I get the errors in the screenshot.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.

MMole


----------



## tommage1

Morocco Mole said:


> Hoping someone can assist. I've done Tivo upgrades in the past but this one really is challenging for me.
> 
> Trying to put 12TB in Roamio
> 
> put in 500GB original drive and let the Roamio format it.
> Tivo boots up fine and goes through guided set up to completion (where it says you can use Tivo while it loads 2 weeks guide data)
> connect the 500GB and new 12TB
> following instructions and using MFSTools, I get the errors in the screenshot.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> MMole


Off the bat, are you running TE3 or TE4 (Hydra)? If TE4 the Roamio should format the 12TB by itself since you are starting fresh. Have to do the copies/expands if using TE3. Also if self formatting with TE4 cannot go back to TE3 in the future (from what I understand) There may be a bootsector fix MFST command to fix the boot on the 500GB.


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## tommage1

You mistyped your second command, =am instead of -am.


----------



## tommage1

Hopefully JMBach will reply but if going from TE3 you may have to use an intermediary drive. Copy/expand the 500 to a 4TB, then do copy/expand from the 4TB to the 12 using add/addfixes. Should be enough info in the thread I think, though may have to do a bit of reading.


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## ggieseke

tommage1 said:


> You mistyped your second command, =am instead of -am.


and you mistyped the device names both times. It would be /dev/sda /dev/sdb instead of /dev/sdA /dev/sdB.


----------



## Morocco Mole

tommage1 said:


> Off the bat, are you running TE3 or TE4 (Hydra)? If TE4 the Roamio should format the 12TB by itself since you are starting fresh. Have to do the copies/expands if using TE3. Also if self formatting with TE4 cannot go back to TE3 in the future (from what I understand) There may be a bootsector fix MFST command to fix the boot on the 500GB.


I think TE3 (never heard of these acronyms). I never upgraded to the "Get New Tivo Experience".
Thanks for answering.


----------



## Morocco Mole

ggieseke said:


> and you mistyped the device names both times. It would be /dev/sda /dev/sdb instead of /dev/sdA /dev/sdB.


Thanks to you both for your input.
I checked the 500 GB source and it still works (interface shows up, "brand new" with no shows, passes, etc.) in the Roamio.
Then trying again (with the typos corrected), I got the attached warnings.

MMole


----------



## tommage1

Morocco Mole said:


> Thanks to you both for your input.
> I checked the 500 GB source and it still works (interface shows up, "brand new" with no shows, passes, etc.) in the Roamio.
> Then trying again (with the typos corrected), I got the attached warnings.
> 
> MMole
> 
> View attachment 73411


Looks like you will have to run the MFST bootsector fix command (check MFST commands). Pretty sure you are going to have to use the intermediary drive though, that was the whole point of this thread, limit for TE3 used to be 8TB. Beyond that needed to start with 4/6/8TB drive, then do 2TB add/add fixes. May be able to start with a 2TB, not sure. Read the entire process to upgrade to the 10TB, for yours would just end up being one additional add/add fix, 12 instead of 10.


----------



## jmbach

Morocco Mole said:


> Thanks to you both for your input.
> I checked the 500 GB source and it still works (interface shows up, "brand new" with no shows, passes, etc.) in the Roamio.
> Then trying again (with the typos corrected), I got the attached warnings.
> 
> MMole
> 
> View attachment 73411


There is a program called bootsectorfix that needs to be ran on your source drive before copying the drive. 

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## HoosontheTeevo

Hello - I am looking to upgrade my 12TB Roamio drive to a 16TB drive I picked up from a sale.

In reading the instructions in Post #2 - Is there anything about my desire to go from a 12TB drive to 16TB drive that makes it different (from say starting with an 8TB drive)? The 12TB was created by cloning an 8TB drive and then expanding it to the 12TB. Now with the 12TB always hovering at 95% I want to expand to 16TB. Can I just follow the same procedure I used for my 8TB drive to create the 12TB drive- first cloning it over, then using msfadd and msfaddfix to expand the cloned 12TB into the new 16TB drive space 2TB at a time - verifying boot up at each 2TB? Thanks!!!


----------



## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> Hello - I am looking to upgrade my 12TB Roamio drive to a 16TB drive I picked up from a sale.
> 
> In reading the instructions in Post #2 - Is there anything about my desire to go from a 12TB drive to 16TB drive that makes it different (from say starting with an 8TB drive)? The 12TB was created by cloning an 8TB drive and then expanding it to the 12TB. Now with the 12TB always hovering at 95% I want to expand to 16TB. Can I just follow the same procedure I used for my 8TB drive to create the 12TB drive- first cloning it over, then using msfadd and msfaddfix to expand the cloned 12TB into the new 16TB drive space 2TB at a time - verifying boot up at each 2TB? Thanks!!!


Can you post the mfsinfo -d output of your 12 TB drive?

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## bsbd

So after three unsuccessful tries with mfscopy (twice w/ standard kernel, once -tivo partitions) I've thrown in the towel. Each time there were a few recordings out of about 500 that wouldn't play, wouldn't permanently delete, and any attempt to re-record wouldn't be accepted from the guide or via an Upcoming Showings list. It was consistent, always affecting the same shows.

I splurged for an offline cloning dock and simply cloned the original 3TB to a new 8TB. I checked if those shows would play, and happily they did. Next I did a KS 58, which would never complete on any of the mfscopies, and unsurprisingly it wouldn't complete on this cloned 3TB image and I'll wager it wouldn't have completed on the original drive either.

Anyhow, it seems my only option is use the cloned image and expand to fill the 8TB. As I understand it this will take three adds/fixes instead of just the two if mfscopy had worked.

So I suspect there may be some sort of residual corruption in the Roamio Pro's SQLite database, not bad enough to be noticeable day-to-day but bad enough to trip up mfscopy and KS 58. I've seen reference to a KS 67 for checking the database's integrity but no reports that I could find of anyone ever trying it. I'm not about to be the first person to learn the hard way it wipes out good recordings and cablecard settings.


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## HoosontheTeevo

jmbach said:


> Can you post the mfsinfo -d output of your 12 TB drive?



Hello - thanks. I don't have it pulled from the roamio yet - will post when I do. What should I be looking for?

Also - the 16TB drive is a WD white label- in pre shuck testing/writing zeros stage now - and it is a 7200rpm WD160EDGZ - is this going to be a problem/7200rpm drives ok? Have previously had 5400 rpm WD gree/red/white drives at my 4TB/8TB/12TB upgrades.

Thanks!


----------



## tommage1

7200 not ideal but not too bad for a Roamio. Bit noiser, bit hotter but I use some with no problems. The only problem I can think of is I think there is a limit on how many add/add fixes you can do. So will depend on how many you did originally to get to 12TB? Limit might be 5? If you started with an 8, did 2 to get it to 12, would need two more to get to 16, should be fine. If you started with a 4 or a 6 (or something else, smaller) you've probably done at least 3-4 already. Need 2 more. Not sure on the specifics of the limitation, you'd have to do a bit more research. Pretty sure 20TB is max, if starting with 8TB that would be 6 add/addfixes. So maybe 6 is the limit, not sure.


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## tommage1

Just FYI I THINK when you do a copy/expand/add/addfix it will tell you how many expansions you have left. Will show new hours and something like "this drive can be expanded X more times". So if you clone the 12 to the 16, do the first add/addfix should tell you how many new hours and how many more expansions available. Some of my drives I approached the limit, maybe started with a 500GB, copy/expand to 2TB, then 3TB, then 4TB and beyond.


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## Morocco Mole

jmbach said:


> There is a program called bootsectorfix that needs to be ran on your source drive before copying the drive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks to ggieseke, tommage1, jmbach;

I started all over again and have successfully upgraded to 12TB Tivo.

Notes that may help other newbies.

I first tried putting in the 12TB to the Roamio to allow it to format up to 3 TB and the hoped to expand it using the instructions at front of this thread. The Roamio only showed enough HD hours for 1TB so something wasn't right.
I had a spare 500GB drive and so put that into the Roamio and it formatted it and the hours seemed right for 500GB. I then attempted using the instructions and got a error (#3 below)
The error "Copy Source: Can not determine primary boot partition from boot sector" I fixed using "bootsectorfix" command in MFS Tools.
Followed the instruction at the beginning of the thread and checked the hard drive after each expansion noting the HD hours were increasing.
699 HD hours (Initial Roamio format) --> 1052 HD hours --> 1405 HD hours --> 1758 HD hours --> 1926 HD hours (end, can't expand anymore)
Note that I had to figure out to place "sudo" in front of all the commands (instruction from the MFS Tools thread) as I was just cutting and pasting instructions from the beginning of thread (changing the drive letter)

Example: "mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY" had to be "_sudo_ mfscopy -am 2040 /dev/sdX /dev/sdY"


Drive used = Western Digital WD120EMFZ
@jmbach - Let me know if there's some beer fund to donate to for your work.

Good luck to all upgraders!

MMole


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## HoosontheTeevo

jmbach said:


> Can you post the mfsinfo -d output of your 12 TB drive?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks again jmbach and ggieske and tommage1 for your help/thoughts.

I think this looks good - wish I had an 18TB to use all three remaining expands.
am plotting some enhanced airflow for the 7200 rpm 16TB drive's increased heat.


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## HoosontheTeevo

And while I plan this upgrade and to clone my 12TB to my new 16TB - can anyone recommend the fastest way to do that clone? I have a spare win10 machine I can boot into linux or win10 and put both drives in as internal sata drives to maximize speed but I assume it'll take what it'll take - lke 20-30hours? Thanks for any tips - I think I used ddrescue run from the mfstools bootable usb drive with only the two tivo drives hooked up internally like I did for the 8tb to 12tb clone a couple years ago. So I'll try that again for the 12tb to 16tb clone unless someone has a quicker method.


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## dave_d

So wait, if I had my Tivo Roamio format a 3TB drive for me, then upgraded that with MFSTools I can clone it with say Clonezilla and then use MFSTools to expand again? That would be 16TB and not 20tb, right?


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## tommage1

HoosontheTeevo said:


> And while I plan this upgrade and to clone my 12TB to my new 16TB - can anyone recommend the fastest way to do that clone? I have a spare win10 machine I can boot into linux or win10 and put both drives in as internal sata drives to maximize speed but I assume it'll take what it'll take - lke 20-30hours? Thanks for any tips - I think I used ddrescue run from the mfstools bootable usb drive with only the two tivo drives hooked up internally like I did for the 8tb to 12tb clone a couple years ago. So I'll try that again for the 12tb to 16tb clone unless someone has a quicker method.


No matter what drives of this size will take a good amount of time. If you plan on doing more clones in the future quickest probably a cloning dock, that's what I use. Interesting you used ddrescue, if there were potential problems with the source drive probably good idea but I doubt the quickest method, does error checking. Though I could be wrong.


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> And while I plan this upgrade and to clone my 12TB to my new 16TB - can anyone recommend the fastest way to do that clone? I have a spare win10 machine I can boot into linux or win10 and put both drives in as internal sata drives to maximize speed but I assume it'll take what it'll take - lke 20-30hours? Thanks for any tips - I think I used ddrescue run from the mfstools bootable usb drive with only the two tivo drives hooked up internally like I did for the 8tb to 12tb clone a couple years ago. So I'll try that again for the 12tb to 16tb clone unless someone has a quicker method.


If the original drive is good, then a cloning dock would be the way to go. 

If you want to use a computer, dobyou wantvto clone via Linux or Windows?

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> Thanks again jmbach and ggieske and tommage1 for your help/thoughts.
> 
> I think this looks good - wish I had an 18TB to use all three remaining expands.
> am plotting some enhanced airflow for the 7200 rpm 16TB drive's increased heat.
> 
> View attachment 73584


So your drive would be fine cloning and then expanding. You can technically add 8 more TB to that drive. 

So with your 12 TB almost full you are not running into any operational issues? 

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## jmbach

dave_d said:


> So wait, if I had my Tivo Roamio format a 3TB drive for me, then upgraded that with MFSTools I can clone it with say Clonezilla and then use MFSTools to expand again? That would be 16TB and not 20tb, right?


So using MFSTools alone you can go up to 16 TB drive. 

If you use MFSR first and the MFSTools you can go up to a 20 TB drive

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## dave_d

jmbach said:


> So using MFSTools alone you can go up to 16 TB drive.
> 
> If you use MFSR first and the MFSTools you can go up to a 20 TB drive
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks jmbach. I'm not sure how many expansions I did original (Since I went 3TB on a roamio formatted drive then upgraded that via MFSTools, cloning and expanding to 10TB) Looks like I'll look for a 16TB drive and try the upgrade and see where I end up.


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## HoosontheTeevo

jmbach said:


> So your drive would be fine cloning and then expanding. You can technically add 8 more TB to that drive.
> 
> So with your 12 TB almost full you are not running into any operational issues?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks - the "you can expand three more times" doesn't limit me to 12TB + 6TB more (3x2TB)? (though I will only be adding 4TB to it this time going from 12 to 16). I guess in theory I'd go 16 to 20 in a few years if cable card/roamio/fios all cooperate to keep me using record from cable which I prefer to streaming so much.

I have occasional random restarts - usually when I have kmttg doing something and several shows recording and I begin to click the slide remote a bunch of times not thinking and overload it. I do occasional restarts and pull power to box for a bit and permanently remove all deleted and that seems to keep me going well. I did have a spell back in the winter when it was in a restart loop if connected to ethernet but finally solved that with power off restarts/plug pulls, weird show fragment deletes, deleted show deletes.

I feel like I do run up against the Roamio Plus' processor/MB limits but overall it works like a champ. What are symptoms of a nearly full huge drive?

Seeking to do non dock clone because before when I tried dock clone it went like 12 hours then hung up and I didn't know if it was going to complete vs. ddrescue that let me see progress, etc.

7200 rpm doesn't concern you at all?

THanks so much!


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## jmbach

HoosontheTeevo said:


> Thanks - the "you can expand three more times" doesn't limit me to 12TB + 6TB more (3x2TB)? (though I will only be adding 4TB to it this time going from 12 to 16). I guess in theory I'd go 16 to 20 in a few years if cable card/roamio/fios all cooperate to keep me using record from cable which I prefer to streaming so much.
> 
> I have occasional random restarts - usually when I have kmttg doing something and several shows recording and I begin to click the slide remote a bunch of times not thinking and overload it. I do occasional restarts and pull power to box for a bit and permanently remove all deleted and that seems to keep me going well. I did have a spell back in the winter when it was in a restart loop if connected to ethernet but finally solved that with power off restarts/plug pulls, weird show fragment deletes, deleted show deletes.
> 
> I feel like I do run up against the Roamio Plus' processor/MB limits but overall it works like a champ. What are symptoms of a nearly full huge drive?
> 
> Seeking to do non dock clone because before when I tried dock clone it went like 12 hours then hung up and I didn't know if it was going to complete vs. ddrescue that let me see progress, etc.
> 
> 7200 rpm doesn't concern you at all?
> 
> THanks so much!


Expansion depends on a couple of things. One is space in the header for drive names. That is where you get it can be expanded 3 more times. When calculating that MFSTools assumes 2 drive names per expansion. Since we are coalescing the partitions, we are using only one drive name per expansion.

Two is partition slots that can be repurposed. You have 4 left. 

As a result, you can expand 4 more times and you will still have enough room in the header for 2 more expansions but no more partitions available for repurposing. 

You can use HDD raw copy tool in windows to clone a drive or dd/ddrescue in Linux

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## dave_d

When you clone a drive does anybody know what software is preferred? I'm asking because when I tried to clone my 10TB to a 14TB drive using CloneZilla I got an error of unrecognized disk. (It did recognize it as a WD101efax of 10tb.) Not sure if it's just a loose cable or if I should use some other software/hardware. (The new drive I got is also a western digital and they have a free version of Acronis. Is that known to work?)


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## ej42137

dave_d said:


> When you clone a drive does anybody know what software is preferred? I'm asking because when I tried to clone my 10TB to a 14TB drive using CloneZilla I got an error of unrecognized disk. (It did recognize it as a WD101efax of 10tb.) Not sure if it's just a loose cable or if I should use some other software/hardware. (The new drive I got is also a western digital and they have a free version of Acronis. Is that known to work?)


What you want it the stupidest software possible, that will just byte-for-byte blindly copy everything from one drive to another without considering the content. On a Linux system, the dd command is perfect, and that will be available on any live CD distro of Linux you come across.

Another solution is a cloning dock. I have used this one several time with great success: Alxum USB 3.0 to SATA Hard Drive Docking Station, I have verified that it works with 20 TB drives.

What's great about a cloning dock is that your computer isn't tied up for hours and hours whilst the copy takes place. What's frustrating is that the only way to monitor the status is the progress lights, which (on the Alxum) show when you are 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and completed.

I'm sure there are Windows programs as well that will do the job. The ones I sometimes use are paid software, part of generalized backup packages, and buying one of them for this purpose would be wasteful. I'm looking forward to someone familiar with one or more of the freeware programs to chime into this thread and enlighten us all.


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## tommage1

ej42137 said:


> What's great about a cloning dock is that your computer isn't tied up for hours and hours whilst the copy takes place. What's frustrating is that the only way to monitor the status is the progress lights, which (on the Alxum) show when you are 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and completed.


True. I use cloning docks. Only issue COULD be if either drive has errors. Can keep trying and trying to the point where it can actually burn out the dock (says so in instructions). Soooooo, best to do a smart test on both drives before actually attempting the clone in a dock. The no feedback (other than the % lights) is not great either. Cloning really large capacity drives can take a LONG time. I still will continue to use the docks though, takes about 1/2 the time it takes in a computer, very significant with drives over 4TB, more so with 10TB and up. If you do use computer best to connect directly to Sata ports if possible, not possible (pretty much), if using a laptop.


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> True. I use cloning docks. Only issue COULD be if either drive has errors. Can keep trying and trying to the point where it can actually burn out the dock (says so in instructions). Soooooo, best to do a smart test on both drives before actually attempting the clone in a dock. The no feedback (other than the % lights) is not great either. Cloning really large capacity drives can take a LONG time. I still will continue to use the docks though, takes about 1/2 the time it takes in a computer, very significant with drives over 4TB, more so with 10TB and up. If you do use computer best to connect directly to Sata ports if possible, not possible (pretty much), if using a laptop.


Before doing the smart test on a new drive it is BEST to run a read/write/read test on the drive. Can take a LONG time, up to a week for a really large drive. But since you could be using the new drive for 5-10 years (3.5" CMR drives should last that long) can be worth it since a one time shot. At the least could write zeros to the new drive, then do a smart test.


----------



## jmbach

ej42137 said:


> I'm sure there are Windows programs as well that will do the job. The ones I sometimes use are paid software, part of generalized backup packages, and buying one of them for this purpose would be wasteful. I'm looking forward to someone familiar with one or more of the freeware programs to chime into this thread and enlighten us all.


HDD Raw Copy Tool is a such a windows based tool. 

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## dave_d

Thanks for the help everybody. Pretty what I'm finding is neither Clonezilla or Acronis would do this. I did see DDRescue could be used and found this link to youtube showing how to use it to do a clone so there's that. FWIW what software do you use to test? I got another WesternDigital drive and installed their "Dashboard" and saw it had a couple of S.M.A.R.T. tests in that package but nothing to do a full test of writes and reads.


----------



## dave_d

tommage1 said:


> True. I use cloning docks. Only issue COULD be if either drive has errors. Can keep trying and trying to the point where it can actually burn out the dock (says so in instructions). Soooooo, best to do a smart test on both drives before actually attempting the clone in a dock. The no feedback (other than the % lights) is not great either. Cloning really large capacity drives can take a LONG time. I still will continue to use the docks though, takes about 1/2 the time it takes in a computer, very significant with drives over 4TB, more so with 10TB and up. If you do use computer best to connect directly to Sata ports if possible, not possible (pretty much), if using a laptop.


I didn't know docks were quicker. Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of maybe this one mostly because I could use a SD card reader which it does as well. (I use desktops which doesn't have a SD card slot.)


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## jmbach

dave_d said:


> Thanks for the help everybody. Pretty what I'm finding is neither Clonezilla or Acronis would do this. I did see DDRescue could be used and found this link to youtube showing how to use it to do a clone so there's that. FWIW what software do you use to test? I got another WesternDigital drive and installed their "Dashboard" and saw it had a couple of S.M.A.R.T. tests in that package but nothing to do a full test of writes and reads.


I find that WD Dashboard is useless for truly testing the drive. Find WD Diagnostic. 

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## tommage1

dave_d said:


> I didn't know docks were quicker. Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of maybe this one mostly because I could use a SD card reader which it does as well. (I use desktops which doesn't have a SD card slot.)


That one should work though have never heard of the brand. Yeah, I use desktops also, and no SD reader but I bought a small USB memory card reader for that, like $10  Good luck, the read/write/read thing I use HDDscan myself, free download. Provides lot of info and tools also.


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## thewebgal

VERY intriguing! I got a 4 tuner Roamio back in Fall 2013 and swapped in a 3TB drive before the first boot, so its always run with that drive.
But, since its getting long in the tooth, I'm thinking it might be a good time for a proactive swap of an 8GB drive.
Any thoughts on the *Seagate Ironwolf 8TB 7200RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" Internal NAS Hard Drive*
I've had good luck with the 7200rpm Seagate drives in my Mac pro, and going to either 6 or 8TB sounds like a nice upgrade.
I do have a dual drive external dock, so cloning should be easy enough


----------



## pl1

thewebgal said:


> VERY intriguing! I got a 4 tuner Roamio back in Fall 2013 and swapped in a 3TB drive before the first boot, so its always run with that drive.
> But, since its getting long in the tooth, I'm thinking it might be a good time for a proactive swap of an 8GB drive.
> Any thoughts on the *Seagate Ironwolf 8TB 7200RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" Internal NAS Hard Drive*
> I've had good luck with the 7200rpm Seagate drives in my Mac pro, and going to either 6 or 8TB sounds like a nice upgrade.
> I do have a dual drive external dock, so cloning should be easy enough


TiVos need a CMR drive and this is a CMR drive, so you are good there. See here. Also, while a 7200 rpm will work, you should try to find a 5400 rpm drive. TiVo can't use the extra speed, but the 7200 uses more power and runs hotter, so the 5400 should last longer. Most people here recommend the WD Red Plus or Purple series CMR drives. But I can see no reason why your selection won't work.

EDIT: See Here Link is CMR and SMR Hard Drives | Seagate US


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## thewebgal

pl1 said:


> TiVos need a CMR drive and this is a CMR drive, so you are good there. See here. Also, while a 7200 rpm will work, you should try to find a 5400 rpm drive. TiVo can't use the extra speed, but the 7200 uses more power and runs hotter, so the 5400 should last longer. Most people here recommend the WD Red Plus or Purple series CMR drives. But I can see no reason why your selection won't work.


The info on 5400rpm drives make perfect sense! Thank you!
So - I'm looking at the 6TB - Seagate BarraCuda 8TB 5400RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" OEM Internal Hard Drive - Micro Center
or the 8TB drive - Seagate BarraCuda 8TB 5400RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" OEM Internal Hard Drive - Micro Center

But I looked at specs for both and can't tell if either one is a CMR drive ...


----------



## bsbd

thewebgal said:


> The info on 5400rpm drives make perfect sense! Thank you!


FWIW, I recently installed an 8TB Western Digital WD84PURZ purple drive in my Roamio Pro, upgrading from the original 3TB WD Green drive. It operates at 5640 rpm and it's been rock solid going into its second month of use. It draws less power than the original drive which should help the Romio's power supply.

I should mention that because of some issues I was having I ended up having to clone the old 3TB to the new 8TB with an offline dock and then expanding with mfsadd and mfsaddfix. I think it was due to some likely corruption in my TiVo's database, so hopefully my case is the exception.


----------



## pl1

thewebgal said:


> The info on 5400rpm drives make perfect sense! Thank you!
> So - I'm looking at the 6TB - Seagate BarraCuda 8TB 5400RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" OEM Internal Hard Drive - Micro Center
> or the 8TB drive - Seagate BarraCuda 8TB 5400RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" OEM Internal Hard Drive - Micro Center
> 
> But I looked at specs for both and can't tell if either one is a CMR drive ...


For some reason, the link I thought I provided is not there. According to Seagate, the Barracuda series is SMR in those sizes. CMR and SMR Hard Drives | Seagate US


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## tommage1

thewebgal said:


> The info on 5400rpm drives make perfect sense! Thank you!
> So - I'm looking at the 6TB - Seagate BarraCuda 8TB 5400RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" OEM Internal Hard Drive - Micro Center
> or the 8TB drive - Seagate BarraCuda 8TB 5400RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" OEM Internal Hard Drive - Micro Center
> 
> But I looked at specs for both and can't tell if either one is a CMR drive ...


Pretty sure the "normal" Barracuda line is SMR. Not super easy to find larger capacity CMR 5400 drives. The new model 6TB Purples use a new CMR tech, 2TB per platter. WD63PURZ. Actually a bit less than 5400 and use less power also. Not sure how they have tested out in Tivos. Far as I know only the latest model 2/4/6 TB purples use this tech. Last I looked the 8TB purple was CMR though, not sure about RPM. Don't see the "normal" 8TB purple on WD site for some reason, only the "pro". I'm sure you could find one though, just check the RPM for the model you find.


----------



## tommage1

tommage1 said:


> Pretty sure the "normal" Barracuda line is SMR. Not super easy to find larger capacity CMR 5400 drives. The new model 6TB Purples use a new CMR tech, 2TB per platter. WD63PURZ. Actually a bit less than 5400 and use less power also. Not sure how they have tested out in Tivos. Far as I know only the latest model 2/4/6 TB purples use this tech. Last I looked the 8TB purple was CMR though, not sure about RPM. Don't see the "normal" 8TB purple on WD site for some reason, only the "pro". I'm sure you could find one though, just check the RPM for the model you find.


Looks like the 128 MB cache 8TB purple is 5640 RPM. WD84PURZ. The 256 MB cache model is 7200 RPM.


----------



## tommage1

Boy, they sure have a lot of different specs for the same models. For the 6TB the new model with the 2TB platters is actually under 5400 RPM. Earlier model 6TB WD60PURZ, there seem to be 3 variations. 64 MB cache is 5400 RPM. 128MB cache is 5640 RPM. 256MB cache is 7200 RPM. Buying drives nowadays not simple for a novice, CMR vs SMR, different RPMs for same model etc etc.


----------



## bsbd

tommage1 said:


> Looks like the 128 MB cache 8TB purple is 5640 RPM. WD84PURZ. .


That is correct. CrystalDiskInfo confirmed it on my WD84PURZ.


----------



## tommage1

thewebgal said:


> VERY intriguing! I got a 4 tuner Roamio back in Fall 2013 and swapped in a 3TB drive before the first boot, so its always run with that drive.
> But, since its getting long in the tooth, I'm thinking it might be a good time for a proactive swap of an 8GB drive.
> Any thoughts on the *Seagate Ironwolf 8TB 7200RPM SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" Internal NAS Hard Drive*
> I've had good luck with the 7200rpm Seagate drives in my Mac pro, and going to either 6 or 8TB sounds like a nice upgrade.
> I do have a dual drive external dock, so cloning should be easy enough


Not bad, if used the entire time you'd be a bit over 8.5 years. Just goes to show how long a good CMR 3.5" drive can last in a Tivo  Something to consider for those with Edge and Bolt also, use external 3.5 CMR drive, Sata to Sata (I have a thread on how to "create" one.) Lot better than internal 2.5, those if CMR usually 2-3 years, at least based on what I read here based on user experience. If SMR, well good luck, could be even less, a lot less, if the SMR even works (some will, some won't, most do NOT if running TE4).


----------



## Yuterald

Where is your post (SATA to SATA external drive)? I found it once but can't find it again. My 4TB drive I put in my Bolt just died after 5 years.


----------



## tommage1

Yuterald said:


> Where is your post (SATA to SATA external drive)? I found it once but can't find it again. My 4TB drive I put in my Bolt just died after 5 years.


Ha, I have trouble finding it myself. Two enclosures I know will work, I actually have a spare of the Rosewill which is REALLY hard to find. Listed in marketplace but "conditions".

TE4 or TE3 Bolt or Edge upgrade with external drive | TiVo Community Forum


----------



## Yuterald

thanks. I ended up finding it again just after i posted. Why doesn't 'any' enclosure work? I don't understand why only 2?


----------



## tommage1

Yuterald said:


> thanks. I ended up finding it again just after i posted. Why doesn't 'any' enclosure work? I don't understand why only 2?


That is explained in the post. Short version, need to be able to connect Sata data and power cables to the drive separately. And be able to run a Sata data cable out of the enclosure. No one piece Sata slide in connection for the drive. Not using the output ports on the enclosure either, enclosure used strictly to hold and power the drive, data connections are direct Sata from motherboard to direct Sata on the drive in the enclosure.

There may be other enclosures that would work but the MAJORITY will not, I know these two can be used for this purpose.


----------



## Yuterald

I did find some other posts re: external setups but I haven't read all of them yet....I can't believe I can't find the original 500GB drive since I have ALL my other drives (Roamio, PC, etc) and I, of course, found all of them but I can't find where I put that one...if I could find it I'd just install it and be done and live w/the 500GB. I was only using 5% of the 4TB.


----------



## tommage1

Yuterald said:


> I did find some other posts re: external setups but I haven't read all of them yet....I can't believe I can't find the original 500GB drive since I have ALL my other drives (Roamio, PC, etc) and I, of course, found all of them but I can't find where I put that one...if I could find it I'd just install it and be done and live w/the 500GB. I was only using 5% of the 4TB.


Easy to find 2.5 500GB or 1TB CMR drive, $20-40. Must be CMR, NOT SMR. If you were using a 4TB 2.5 drive in a Bolt it was/is SMR, there are no CMR 2.5" drives over 3TB. Some SMR may work, kinda, but most likely will not last very long, not recommended, especially if running TE4/Hydra.


----------



## tommage1

Oh you can get a CMR 3TB 2.5" drive new for $90. Discontinued model of course, no current model 2.5 CMR drives over 1TB. But cost effective (in the long run) and able to use most any capacity drive the external is the way to go, the 3.5" CMR drives should last 5-10 years, even the best CMR 2.5s seem to last 1-3 years, maybe a bit more if smaller capacity like the 500GB.


----------



## Yuterald

This 4TB drive was what I installed and have been using since 2017 in my TiVo Bolt: STDR4000100. but i've read that FW 001 works (which is what my drive was) but other FW's may not. I don't want to buy one to open it up to find out in case the newer ones are not FY 001.


----------



## pl1

tommage1 said:


> That is explained in the post. Short version, need to be able to connect Sata data and power cables to the drive separately. And be able to run a Sata data cable out of the enclosure. No one piece Sata slide in connection for the drive. Not using the output ports on the enclosure either, enclosure used strictly to hold and power the drive, data connections are direct Sata from motherboard to direct Sata on the drive in the enclosure.
> 
> There may be other enclosures that would work but the MAJORITY will not, I know these two can be used for this purpose.


You can always go with a simple hard drive adapter for the power, no case, sata to sata. Something like this.








Amazon.com: Warmstor SATA/PATA/IDE Hard Drive to USB 2.0 Adapter Converter Cable for 2.5" 3.5" Hard Disk HDD SSD with External AC Power Supply, Compatible with All Computer System PC Desktop Laptop : Electronics


Buy Warmstor SATA/PATA/IDE Hard Drive to USB 2.0 Adapter Converter Cable for 2.5" 3.5" Hard Disk HDD SSD with External AC Power Supply, Compatible with All Computer System PC Desktop Laptop: SATA Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## tommage1

pl1 said:


> You can always go with a simple hard drive adapter for the power, no case, sata to sata. Something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Warmstor SATA/PATA/IDE Hard Drive to USB 2.0 Adapter Converter Cable for 2.5" 3.5" Hard Disk HDD SSD with External AC Power Supply, Compatible with All Computer System PC Desktop Laptop : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy Warmstor SATA/PATA/IDE Hard Drive to USB 2.0 Adapter Converter Cable for 2.5" 3.5" Hard Disk HDD SSD with External AC Power Supply, Compatible with All Computer System PC Desktop Laptop: SATA Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Yup. And actually I have an enclosure metal housing that is just empty, all electronics is on the end cap. So could use the adapter you mention and just slip drive into the empty housing, one end on, the other with the electronics off. Look a little better and not have drive exposed to dust, bugs etc.


----------



## Yuterald

I, actually, have 2 of those already (different brand) that I bought years ago just for the TiVo. But how do you connect it to the TiVo? Do you have a diagram that would help? Thanks!


----------



## tommage1

Yuterald said:


> I, actually, have 2 of those already (different brand) that I bought years ago just for the TiVo. But how do you connect it to the TiVo? Do you have a diagram that would help? Thanks!


Two of what, we are talking enclosures and power adapters at this point?


----------



## tommage1

pl1 said:


> You can always go with a simple hard drive adapter for the power, no case, sata to sata. Something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Warmstor SATA/PATA/IDE Hard Drive to USB 2.0 Adapter Converter Cable for 2.5" 3.5" Hard Disk HDD SSD with External AC Power Supply, Compatible with All Computer System PC Desktop Laptop : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy Warmstor SATA/PATA/IDE Hard Drive to USB 2.0 Adapter Converter Cable for 2.5" 3.5" Hard Disk HDD SSD with External AC Power Supply, Compatible with All Computer System PC Desktop Laptop: SATA Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Just FYI, this is only 2a. Might want to shop for similar 3a or more.


----------



## Yuterald

Apologies - yes - 2 of those power adapters. And after looking at another pic of the box - that is the one I already have (2 of). I trust I just unplug the SATA and POWER from the Bolt MB and use the cables w/this adapter to plug into the MB and then to an external 3.5" drive? Why 3a vs 2a? Isn't 2a enough or not enough power?


----------



## tommage1

Yuterald said:


> Apologies - yes - 2 of those power adapters. And after looking at another pic of the box - that is the one I already have (2 of). I trust I just unplug the SATA and POWER from the Bolt MB and use the cables w/this adapter to plug into the MB and then to an external 3.5" drive? Why 3a vs 2a? Isn't 2a enough or not enough power?


Look at it like this, you have a bare 3.5" CMR drive. Hook the power adapter up to the drive directly. Now drive has power. The run Sata data cable from the drive to the Sata port on the Bolt motherboard. And you are ready to go. If you have an empty case to put the drive in even better to protect from the elements.

2a ok since just powering the drive period. I just like to have a bit extra available for when the adapter starts wearing out, some headroom. Heck about same price so why not, 3a is what I like. The larger amperage adapters will not use more power, the devices/drives only draw what they need at the time. As long as a switching power supply (which most are nowadays), linear would provide full power at all times I think, needed or not.


----------



## Yuterald

I did a quick Amazon search but not finding one with 3 amps. If you have a link to that one please share and thank you! That seems like the easiest solution. Now to go back and find out which drives are CMR since I've read one thread saying the WD Reds are no longer CMR ...but maybe the Purple ones are?


----------



## ThAbtO

Yuterald said:


> saying the WD Reds are no longer CMR


WD Red = SMR
WD Red Plus = CMR
WD Red Pro = 7200 RPM, CMR/SMR


----------



## tommage1

Yuterald said:


> I did a quick Amazon search but not finding one with 3 amps. If you have a link to that one please share and thank you! That seems like the easiest solution. Now to go back and find out which drives are CMR since I've read one thread saying the WD Reds are no longer CMR ...but maybe the Purple ones are?


No idea, I don't use that type. You mentioned you already have a couple, 2a WILL work, might as well use for now if you already own. As for drives, as below poster mentions, Red PLUS is CMR. Also I think all Purples are still CMR.


----------



## Yuterald

Thank you. Once again I'm down the rabbit-hole whether Purple is 'good' to use in the Bolt or should I get the Red Plus.....found some threads and appears to be unclear one over the other.


----------



## ThAbtO

Quit being so contradictive. They both work. The purple is just older model. 

The Red Plus is recommended, model numbers ending in EFRX, EFZX. The green used to be recommended, but now no longer made, and not just any green, but green AV.

The major part is these are 3.5" drives which will not fit inside the Bolt. It would have to be in an external.


----------



## Yuterald

@tommage1 Turns out the output on the 2 adapters I have is 1.5a. I just got the WD Red Plus and it's working but I suppose I should hunt down a 3a...off to search for one...


----------



## ggieseke

WD Elements & EasyStore external drives ship with 1.5A power supplies. The Sabrent enclosure that Weaknees uses has a 2A supply, which is probably overkill even with its own fan and electronics. Unless you're trying to power a 5.25" full-height drive from the 80s I wouldn't bother going any higher.


----------



## Yuterald

ggieseke said:


> WD Elements & EasyStore external drives ship with 1.5A power supplies. The Sabrent enclosure that Weaknees uses has a 2A supply, which is probably overkill even with its own fan and electronics. Unless you're trying to power a 5.25" full-height drive from the 80s I wouldn't bother going any higher.


Much appreciated. Next I'm going to search for instructions on if/how to back-up the settings so if/when this happens again, i don't have to reenter all my season passes, settings etc...


----------



## chris_martin

I am attempting to upgrade my Tivo Edge from 2TB to an external 4TB (WD Red Plus CMR drive).
I'm using the current MFSTools boot ISO (v3.34-3) from thess github.
I am unable to clone the drive using MFSCOPY due to an inode error.
The error was "Unable to determine transaction type for inode updates, error reading from log entry 7984496" (Same or similar error if I attempt to "backup" the disk with mfs tools)

I used a dedicated external drive dock clone device and that worked fine. I was able to stick the 4TB drive on the Edge and it booted and worked fine (for about a week or so as a test).
However, the drive is still a 2TB volume according to the Tivo info.

When I attempt to mfsadd and mfsaddfix (Using the commands on page 1 of this thread attempting to add 2040), when I boot the Tivo back up, it just appears to get stuck in a boot loop with an error screen "...serious problem... This will take three hours..." however, it just reboots over and over and doesn't stay on that screen.

Any ideas on being able to expand this 2TB drive to a 4TB drive?

Thanks


----------



## Yuterald

The new Edge isn't like the Bolt?! You have to use MFSTools to replace the HD? No thanks. Glad you don't need to do that w/the Bolt or Roamio. Sorry to hear that but I can't help you with that.


----------



## chris_martin

Yuterald said:


> The new Edge isn't like the Bolt?! You have to use MFSTools to replace the HD? No thanks. Glad you don't need to do that w/the Bolt or Roamio. Sorry to hear that but I can't help you with that.


I wanted to keep my settings and shows.


----------



## tommage1

As far as I know you cannot copy and expand an EDGE drive with MFST. You are the first person I have seen to try it, other than myself. The person who "maintains" MFST was going to check it out but has not got around to it (probably because so few people have tried it). I tried multiple times in multiple ways, same "inode" error. Only when trying to copy/expand (and maybe just copy, not sure). If starting fresh no problems, that is what I ended up doing, had 500GB, started fresh with 4TB CMR Sata to Sata external. I did transfer my nearly full 500GB programs to a TE3 Roamio first. Since Edge is TE4 only I will have to use Tivo online if I want to transfer back to the Edge, I have not yet, will just watch on the Roamio or stream to the Edge from the Roamio.


----------



## tommage1

chris_martin said:


> I am attempting to upgrade my Tivo Edge from 2TB to an external 4TB (WD Red Plus CMR drive).
> I'm using the current MFSTools boot ISO (v3.34-3) from thess github.
> I am unable to clone the drive using MFSCOPY due to an inode error.
> The error was "Unable to determine transaction type for inode updates, error reading from log entry 7984496" (Same or similar error if I attempt to "backup" the disk with mfs tools)
> 
> I used a dedicated external drive dock clone device and that worked fine. I was able to stick the 4TB drive on the Edge and it booted and worked fine (for about a week or so as a test).
> However, the drive is still a 2TB volume according to the Tivo info.
> 
> When I attempt to mfsadd and mfsaddfix (Using the commands on page 1 of this thread attempting to add 2040), when I boot the Tivo back up, it just appears to get stuck in a boot loop with an error screen "...serious problem... This will take three hours..." however, it just reboots over and over and doesn't stay on that screen.
> 
> Any ideas on being able to expand this 2TB drive to a 4TB drive?
> 
> Thanks


You may be screwed, since you hooked up the 4TB to the Edge. It worked only because at the time it was an exact clone of the 2TB. If you have done anything since the 4TB has been hooked up you have lost everything on the 2TB also. It's still there but you cannot access it because when you hooked up the 4TB it updated the "map" to recordings and settings on the flash memory on the motherboard. So you MAY end up having to start fresh anyway, with the 4TB blanked.


----------



## chris_martin

tommage1 said:


> You may be screwed, since you hooked up the 4TB to the Edge. It worked only because at the time it was an exact clone of the 2TB. If you have done anything since the 4TB has been hooked up you have lost everything on the 2TB also. It's still there but you cannot access it because when you hooked up the 4TB it updated the "map" to recordings and settings on the flash memory on the motherboard. So you MAY end up having to start fresh anyway, with the 4TB blanked.


I can easily re-clone. The original 2TB drive remains intact and works fine, as do additional clones of that drive. So, I'll loose a few things, but no big deal there other than the loss of the cloning time. I am keeping the old 2.5" 2TB drive as-is so I can reclone as needed. In fact, the system is currently running on a 3.5" 2TB drive that is a second clone of that original drive right now while I mess with the 4TB drive. I can re-clone the old drive (or the new 3.5" 2TB drive) to the 4TB again or whatever is needed.

However, as you stated, this sounds like it will not even work at all. I may just have to manually transfer everything like you did or just start from scratch with the 4TB if I end up wanting additional capacity.

This all started because the old 2.5" 2TB drive was acting wonky. Lots of stuttering and I was needing to reboot the Tivo once a week or so to get things back to "normal". The 3.5" drives are all working fine though, so it must be that old drive that was the problem.


----------



## tommage1

chris_martin said:


> This all started because the old 2.5" 2TB drive was acting wonky. Lots of stuttering and I was needing to reboot the Tivo once a week or so to get things back to "normal". The 3.5" drives are all working fine though, so it must be that old drive that was the problem.


2.5" drives stink (for use in 24/7 Tivos.) And the stock drive in Edge is SMR to boot. Be lucky to get a couple years. Good CMR 3.5 5-10 years.


----------



## tommage1

chris_martin said:


> I can easily re-clone. The original 2TB drive remains intact and works fine, as do additional clones of that drive.


Well you have to be really careful with that. There are two "drives" in an Edge and Bolt, the hard drive and the flash drive/memory on the motherboard. The flash drive has the "map" to the recordings/settings on the hard drive. Sooooo, when you cloned the 2TB to the 4TB you had an exact match of the 2TB. Since it only cloned 2TB, you would not have the extra 2TB. So it would work, as a 2TB copy of the original. BUT, as soon as something changes on the 4TB, ANYTHING really, the map on the flash drive changes. Say you do 10 recordings and maybe delete 10. The map constantly updates, it now is a map to the current drive which has 10 new recordings and 10 that have been deleted. And that is the hard drive the flash drive expects to see. If you put in the original 2TB the 10 new recordings and the 10 deleted are not there. So the flash drive will be confused/incorrect. If bad enough it may try to format since no longer matches the last drive that was installed (in this case the 4TB). It may SEEM ok, in your case much of the data will still match, but not ALL of it. So unpredictable what will happen in the future, could be some wonky errors.

The Tivos with 2 "drives" are Edge, Bolt and Roamio. Edge and Bolt have the "map" on the flash drive. So cannot be swapping drives around unless they are EXACT matches. The Roamio does not have the map on the flash drive. So CAN swap around drives in Roamio without problems, as long as on same OS. Only problem you could have with Roamio is if multiple drives were not created from the original you could lose your cable card pairing if using cable.


----------



## ThAbtO

It applies to the Bolt, but not sure about the Edge.


----------



## tommage1

ThAbtO said:


> It applies to the Bolt, but not sure about the Edge.


Maybe. Would be an interesting test if you have an Edge, clone the drive, do a LOAD of changes, then swap in the original. Of course taking huge chance, could lose everything. So something to try with maybe a new Edge where you don't care about current recordings since there will be so few. Unfortunately I don't have one with those criteria, both mine have been in use for quite awhile, don't want to risk losing it all. Hard to test also, if you have a lot of recordings you'd pretty much have to try playing them all, maybe some work, maybe some don't. Not something I'd want to COUNT on, I'll stick with exact clone or fresh start with Edge (since can't do copy/expand with Edge using MFST at this time.) And repurpose the old drive.


----------



## tommage1

Hmm, I picked up a cable Edge with recordings but no lifetime service. I could not make any new recordings since no service but could delete a load of the current recordings. So clone it, put in the clone, do the deletes, then swap in original, see what happens. Main problem is I really want to sell the Edge, to do this I'd have to remove sticker etc, don't want to damage it. We'll see, I DO like experimenting with Tivos, not much has been done with Edge even after all these years.


----------



## tommage1

Ok I could not resist, I tested the cable Edge. Cloned the original 2TB, was 80% or so full with a lot of recently deleted also. Put in the clone. Permanently deleted everything in the recently deleted folder. Then deleted a bunch more, took it down to 67%, left the newly deleted in recently deleted. Removed a couple season passes. And ran guided setup to change to a different zip code.

I then put the original back in. Should have been 80%, with all the recently deleted that I permanently deleted on the clone. And all season passes that were on it originally. BUT, here is what happened. It showed 67%, same as the clone. And none of the original recently deleted. And the season passes were missing the two I deleted on the clone. The one thing that "stayed" was the zip code. Soooooo, since the original should still be 80% full, all the original recordings, but does not, that means those recordings must still be on the drive, just can't see them. Same with the recently deleted that I permanently deleted on the clone, they must still be on the drive, just can't see them.

Conclusion, cannot swap drives around in Edge. The scary thing is there is no error type message. There must be a bunch of "invisible" recordings on the original drive. Taking up space, and could probably cause errors in the future. Very interesting experiment, for sure will not be swapping drives around in Edge, if switching drives will use exact clone or start fresh. And will repurpose original drive, will never swap in again. For me now I will probably have to start fresh with this Edge. Since when I put the ORIGINAL back in it probably altered the flash drive again. So cannot even put the clone back in..........


----------



## krkaufman

edit: NOTE: *Amazon* appears to also have these on sale. (inclu. 10TB at $160)

FWIW, Newegg appears to be offering the 8TB WD Red Plus (CMR) for $130. (doesn't appear to require any special promo code)

edit: 6TB is $110; 12TB $190; and 14TB $210


----------



## tommage1

krkaufman said:


> edit: NOTE: *Amazon* appears to also have these on sale. (inclu. 10TB at $160)
> 
> FWIW, Newegg appears to be offering the 8TB WD Red Plus (CMR) for $130. (doesn't appear to require any special promo code)
> 
> edit: 6TB is $110; 12TB $190; and 14TB $210


Yeah, appears there are some good sales right now, with BF not TOO far away. The 4TB is $69.99 at Amazon and the WD site. Also at WD site seems the prices are the same as at Newegg for the ones you mention. I think if you use Rakuten cash back can get 5% if buying through WD direct. There can be some huge cash back at WD, 5% now not bad, but sometimes 10%, around BF last year they had 15% and 20% for a few days. Rakuten, not sure about the other cash back sites like Mr Rebates, BeFrugal etc. I don't like BeFrugal, many times they don't pay, Mr Rebates so so and you have to wait a LONG time before they do pay, Rakuten always pays, if they miss one you just file and they pay. Also Rakuten has a $30 bonus for signing up right now. If you have a link from a current member, it may only be $10 without the current member link.


----------



## giomania

My Roamio Pro, purchased in 2014, is still going strong on the original 3 TB HDD. I figure it is probably time to perform this upgrade. I looked at my drives, and I have a drive pulled from a WD Easystore purchased in 2020, it is a WD80EMAZ, which is 256 Mb Cache and 5,400 RPM. I found a post from 2017 where someone commented on this drive that: "These drives have 256MB cache and 5400 rpm so they seem to be exactly like the reds. Have TLER enabled etc and same firmware as the RED's." 

I have only used this drive for offline storage, so it has not been running much. It seems like, based upon the age, this is a CMR drive and should work fine? Is it worth the risk?

Thank you.

Mark


----------



## tommage1

giomania said:


> My Roamio Pro, purchased in 2014, is still going strong on the original 3 TB HDD. I figure it is probably time to perform this upgrade. I looked at my drives, and I have a drive pulled from a WD Easystore purchased in 2020, it is a WD80EMAZ, which is 256 Mb Cache and 5,400 RPM. I found a post from 2017 where someone commented on this drive that: "These drives have 256MB cache and 5400 rpm so they seem to be exactly like the reds. Have TLER enabled etc and same firmware as the RED's."
> 
> I have only used this drive for offline storage, so it has not been running much. It seems like, based upon the age, this is a CMR drive and should work fine? Is it worth the risk?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Mark


I would guess it would be fine. it's a helium drive also, later pulls from 8TB Easystores are not. I am using the same model in a Roamio. Good thing about Roamio is you can test things by swapping drives around and NOT lose what is on the original drive so can keep as backup in case "test" fails (cannot do that with Bolt or Edge.) You can use MFST to copy and expand your current drive to the 8TB I believe. Might want to check current drive with crystal disk info to see if any errors/bad sectors. Just make sure you don't format it when putting in computer to test, since Tivo/Linux software Windows will ask if you want to initialize it, don't do it or will lose all your Tivo software.


----------



## MaTiv44

tommage1 said:


> Well you have to be really careful with that. There are two "drives" in an Edge and Bolt, the hard drive and the flash drive/memory on the motherboard. The flash drive has the "map" to the recordings/settings on the hard drive. Sooooo, when you cloned the 2TB to the 4TB you had an exact match of the 2TB. Since it only cloned 2TB, you would not have the extra 2TB. So it would work, as a 2TB copy of the original. BUT, as soon as something changes on the 4TB, ANYTHING really, the map on the flash drive changes. Say you do 10 recordings and maybe delete 10. The map constantly updates, it now is a map to the current drive which has 10 new recordings and 10 that have been deleted. And that is the hard drive the flash drive expects to see. If you put in the original 2TB the 10 new recordings and the 10 deleted are not there. So the flash drive will be confused/incorrect. If bad enough it may try to format since no longer matches the last drive that was installed (in this case the 4TB). It may SEEM ok, in your case much of the data will still match, but not ALL of it. So unpredictable what will happen in the future, could be some wonky errors.
> 
> The Tivos with 2 "drives" are Edge, Bolt and Roamio. Edge and Bolt have the "map" on the flash drive. So cannot be swapping drives around unless they are EXACT matches. The Roamio does not have the map on the flash drive. So CAN swap around drives in Roamio without problems, as long as on same OS. Only problem you could have with Roamio is if multiple drives were not created from the original you could lose your cable card pairing if using cable.



Oh, Cool....

So, on a Roamio Pro you could alternate between the stock HD (which I have filled), and a different drive (or 2) without any problem? Do the sizes matter? ....and I am guessing IF SO then if you also had an external you would just need to keep it tied to the internal it was used with?

Is 3/4GB the largest drive you can use still without having to do other modifications? or is it 8TB drive if it has the right TE3/TE4 version ...


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## tommage1

Well JMBach is the one who you should ask. However, what I think you could do is use MFST to copy and expand your current drive. To up to 8TB (CMR drive of course). Could do larger but trickier, I'd stick with 8TB max if that is enough for you. Do not copy the recordings, just copy/expand. That should keep your cable card pairing info and probably your settings etc. Then should be able to swap drives around. Since a Pro is cable only if you want to be able to record etc you HAVE to copy the current drive, at least partially, so each drive has the same cable card pairing info. Or cannot swap around with full capabiliity, ie use the cable card with both drives.


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## MaTiv44

tommage1 said:


> Well JMBach is the one who you should ask. However, what I think you could do is use MFST to copy and expand your current drive. To up to 8TB (CMR drive of course). Could do larger but trickier, I'd stick with 8TB max if that is enough for you. Do not copy the recordings, just copy/expand. That should keep your cable card pairing info and probably your settings etc. Then should be able to swap drives around. Since a Pro is cable only if you want to be able to record etc you HAVE to copy the current drive, at least partially, so each drive has the same cable card pairing info. Or cannot swap around with full capabiliity, ie use the cable card with both drives.


Well, 8TB really isn't enough, but of all the options it seemed like it was a good idea to try that first probably. From what ive read its the highest you can go to without getting into more trouble. So, I ordered two WD *WD80EFZZ drives, and I can try those first then hopefully figure sometihng else out. *

I hope to be able to free up a day this week or next as long as the drives get here. So, I am trying to get the best info/guide together here to have a shot... 

I downloaded the ISO for MSFT, the jbach link on here i think, but thats it on that front... I see some linux formats, is that what MSFT and others are limited to? No options to do this from Windows?? (Havent used Linux in quite some time, and was far from comfortable with it although I did run an old DVR based on it)

I was just going to go with WK, but the prices are such a rip even if I had the money (which I dont unfortunately) I'm not sure I could. I don't mind paying a little extra within my budget or even paying for some help, but those prices are just insane. Not to mention with cable going down the tubes right now & everything else... Hell, Tivo is selling their New units WITH Lifetime included for 450$... 

So, I saw this thread here: TiVo Roamio Hard Drive Upgrade, PART 1

Are there any other links you know off hand, youtube videos, or anything like that i should check out? 

--By current drive you mean the drive that is in the Roamio? Expand the drive to 8TB (even though it is smaller than that?) so that when you Copy/clone it onto the new 8TB drive the device will see it as same?


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## tommage1

MaTiv44 said:


> By current drive you mean the drive that is in the Roamio? Expand the drive to 8TB (even though it is smaller than that?) so that when you Copy/clone it onto the new 8TB drive the device will see it as same?


You have a 3TB drive now, in the Roamio. You copy/expand it to the 8TB with MFST. without copying the recordings, there are flags you set with MFST. You have to do this if you want to be swapping drives around as you need the same cable card pairing info on each drive (if doing OTA would not have to do that). MFST for this process is really simple, one basic command, a few others to verify drive letters etc. Copy/expand without copying recordings will be really quick too.

Could go larger than 8TB but a slightly different process, have to do multiple 2TB "adds" and "add fixes". And the drive size you start with can matter. Myself I am sticking to 8TB and less, simple. As all the REALLY large upgrades I have done have developed problems over time, when they get to some point the Tivo starts rebooting when connected to the internet, all the time. No one has figured out how to solve that problem yet, I did a LOT of testing myself, never found a solution.

Though I always recommend Sata to Sata for external upgrades you CAN use a certain Thermaltake "toaster", Sata to Esata (probably others will work also but not all, I just know the Thermaltake model "I" used works, a BlacX.) I do it with a couple Roamios on TE3 (not sure if would work with TE4). What's nice is you have the toaster where you can pop drives in and out whenever you want. Have a "library" so to speak. Again if cable need same cable card pairing info on each "library" drive so all would have to be created from the original or a copy copy/expand of the original. OTA can do fresh drives. All on same OS of course, no mix of TE3 and TE4 drives.


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## tommage1

By the way WK would not do you any good IF you want to use multiple drives with the same Tivo. As they would not be doing the copy copy/expand with your original. You would have to pair the cable card to the WK drive, the card would then no longer be paired to your original.


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## tommage1

Once you create the "library", with same cable card pairing info on each drive, you will have 3 choices on how to use. The first would be internally like your 3TB is now. When you want to switch you just swap in the other drive. Second would be a "normal" type external enclosure. I always recommend Sata to Sata. There are not many models that will work, due to needing separate data and power connections to the drive in the enclosure. I personally know of two, both discontinued and can be a bit tough to find (I use both, one is a Sabrent, the other a Rosewill, but both are SPECIFIC model numbers, not just any Sabrent or Rosewill.) Three the Termaltake "toaster", which would be Sata to Esata (again it works for ME with TE3 OS, can't speak for TE4.)

Actually there is a 4th option, bare drive external, Sata to Sata. You would hook the bare drive up Sata to Sata data, would buy a separate power supply for the drive. Some people do that, it works fine, if you don't mind having the drives bare sitting on your shelf.


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## kjsmithtx

@jmbach
I have a Bolt from 2016 (TE3) that started as a 500GB model and I used the MFSR method to upgrade to 8TB. Now I want to upgrade the 8TB drive to 16TB and keep recordings. I think my steps are:
1. clone 8TB to 16TB drive
2. put 16TB drive in Bolt and perform some connects and try to play random recordings
3. MFSADD/MFSADDFIX until none available
Is this correct and can I expect to get full 16TB after all steps?
Here is my mfsinfo from 8TB drive.


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## jmbach

kjsmithtx said:


> @jmbach
> I have a Bolt from 2016 (TE3) that started as a 500GB model and I used the MFSR method to upgrade to 8TB. Now I want to upgrade the 8TB drive to 16TB and keep recordings. I think my steps are:
> 1. clone 8TB to 16TB drive
> 2. put 16TB drive in Bolt and perform some connects and try to play random recordings
> 3. MFSADD/MFSADDFIX until none available
> Is this correct and can I expect to get full 16TB after all steps?
> Here is my mfsinfo from 8TB drive.
> View attachment 76890


That is essentially the steps. I would test the Bolt between expansions to make sure it works without a hitch. 

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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