# Any series 4 plans leaked?



## redwolf4k (Oct 8, 2009)

I am wondering if anyone has heard of any series 4 info? I was assume the next generation Tivos will have 2 way communications ability, so the SDV tuning adapter wont be necessary. 

I am ready to invest in the next generation.....

Any rumors?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Nope, only speculation. But when something is announced, I'd bet we find out here first.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

The multi-tuner media center pc is on the edge of formation. 4 Tuners with a single M-card. If that isnt Tivos motivation, i dont know what else could be. But in any case if a decent media center pc comes out , cya tivo.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Videodrome said:


> cya tivo.


Was this meant as "cover your a.." or ciao?


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

jrm01 said:


> Was this meant as "cover your a.." or ciao?


Ciao...


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> The multi-tuner media center pc is on the edge of formation. 4 Tuners with a single M-card. If that isnt Tivos motivation, i dont know what else could be. But in any case if a decent media center pc comes out , cya tivo.


I really dont think media center pc's are that much of a concern to tivo. They're target seems to be people who just want to simply plug in a box and it works. Anything MS will never be that.

But maybe I'm wrong- wouldn't be the first- wont be the last.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

redwolf4k said:


> I am wondering if anyone has heard of any series 4 info? I was assume the next generation Tivos will have 2 way communications ability, so the SDV tuning adapter wont be necessary.


The only thing along those lines that I've heard, and it's a month old, is that Comcast will be testing a TiVo as their primary DVR in some market (as opposed to running TiVo software on their own hardware as they do now).

That TiVo will undoubtedly be tru2way and won't require an SDV adapter and will be able to get pay-per-view (or at least everybody assumes so, since Comcast wouldn't go along with this otherwise). Whether TiVo will come out with a general tru2way model at that time is unknown.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

MichaelK said:


> I really dont think media center pc's are that much of a concern to tivo. They're target seems to be people who just want to simply plug in a box and it works. Anything MS will never be that.
> 
> But maybe I'm wrong- wouldn't be the first- wont be the last.


There are companies that repackage media center, into just as easy platform. The only thing holding it back , has been cardcard sdv, and single stream.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> There are companies that repackage media center, into just as easy platform. The only thing holding it back , has been cardcard sdv, and single stream.


Would be surprised if any company would offer 4 tuners in such an easy package for under 1,500$. DIY folks would get a better price point but then they are a niche breed.

Also, SDV dongles are not well addressed for the more than 2 tuners and there ahs been no word on a 2 way interactive approach on Media center to address that.

HTPC will have its place, but it will not be a mainstream place any more than TiVo could get a mainstream place in the market


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

tp the OP = TiVo has specifically talked about a tru2way TiVo that would indeed eliminate the need for the SDV dongle - TiVo has made it known they have worked closely with Comcast and some others on this.

What is unknown is how far along any of that work is and not even the hint of a product that would be on the shelf nor when. The first time there might be news from TiVo is during the next CES show which are held in January


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

I have nothing meaningful to add other than the SDV adapters are killing me (more clutter, require regular reboots to have a chance at tuning things like CNN HD - yesterday's reboot didn't help, maybe today's will) as is the _copy_ (versus _stream_) content protection issues I've run into, essentially killing MRV. Of course, this isn't TiVo's fault but this is the environment they are forced to operate in and the conditions have devalued my investments. So, yeah, I'm hoping for something better. Like a Series 4 has two-way capabilities and streams rather than copies.


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## chestnu1 (Oct 10, 2008)

I think that in the near future tivo could release/update there software so that it would work with these upcoming 4 tuner computer cable card tuners made by ceton. It makes sense to me that they would try to expand more into the computer area especially if that 4 tuner card is released before any fourth series tivo comes out. I have had a tivo hd for over a year and the idea of that 4 tuners makes me feel like a kid before christmas.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

chestnu1 said:


> I think that in the near future tivo could release/update there software so that it would work with these upcoming 4 tuner computer cable card tuners made by ceton. It makes sense to me that they would try to expand more into the computer area especially if that 4 tuner card is released before any fourth series tivo comes out. I have had a tivo hd for over a year and the idea of that 4 tuners makes me feel like a kid before christmas.


I am drawing a sudden blank on the German company that did the port of TiVo interface to the PC, but that company would be the ones to do any added work. I am not holding my breath on that one.
Aside from copy restrictions set by content owner/broadcaster - it should be easy enough to pull shows recorded in media center to a TiVo on the TV.


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

it seems to be forever since tivo has done any major updates. The HD XL was only an incremental update. The whole system 3/HD family is over 3 years old now. That is an eternity in hi tech terms. If nothing else they should be able to come up with a 4 tuner box coupled with a server box to stream to similar to Moxi. I could care less about adding Blockbuster! I have yet to see any programming on there that wasn't already available on Amazon!


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

The current tivo is interface is really bad , its slow, bumpy and its please wait for everything. Anyone with a little effort could succeed tivo. Moxi was the first attempt, i dont see why other wouldnt.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> The current tivo is interface is really bad , its slow, bumpy and its please wait for everything. Anyone with a little effort could succeed tivo. Moxi was the first attempt, i dont see why other wouldnt.


Apparently not the folks at Mystro


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## wkearney99 (Dec 5, 2003)

Videodrome said:


> The current tivo is interface is really bad , its slow, bumpy and its please wait for everything. Anyone with a little effort could succeed tivo. Moxi was the first attempt, i dont see why other wouldnt.


Slow though it may be, it has thus far managed to suck less than just about everything else. It's remained on the the market longer too. So they must be doing _something_ right.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

jcaudle said:


> it seems to be forever since tivo has done any major updates. The HD XL was only an incremental update. The whole system 3/HD family is over 3 years old now. That is an eternity in hi tech terms. If nothing else they should be able to come up with a 4 tuner box coupled with a server box to stream to similar to Moxi. I could care less about adding Blockbuster! I have yet to see any programming on there that wasn't already available on Amazon!


Tivo seems to be into selling something more than the latest and greatest hardware so they dont come out with much more than incremental improvements annually. I guess they would say it's about the tivo service and experience.

so they can't make a new model that offers tremendous new features every year without pissing off all the old customers. That and they dont seem to be able to afford the R&D, manufacturing, and stock keeping costs to make loads of changes besides more internal things that make the boxes cheaper for them to build.

So I dont expect (nor want) a new much better model each year. But I do sure wish they would offer more "top of the line" options alongside the stock models. I'd pay more for chipset upgrades to make the box faster myself. An option of 4 tuners I'd also probably buy in for.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Right now people who want more tuners have to buy an additional TIVO. Would a TIVO with 4 tuners cost more than 2 separate TIVOS? TIVO would still lose out on the subscription fee on a second TIVO if they offered a 4 tuner TIVO. 

I don't see TIVO offering a 4 tuner unit if it could hurt their revenue stream. Maybe TIVO could add cooperative scheduling for customers with more than one unit, so scheduling could be done from one unit.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> ...TIVO would still lose out on the subscription fee on a second TIVO if they offered a 4 tuner TIVO.
> 
> I don't see TIVO offering a 4 tuner unit if it could hurt their revenue stream. Maybe TIVO could add cooperative scheduling for customers with more than one unit, so scheduling could be done from one unit.


This.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

orangeboy said:


> Apparently not the folks at Mystro


 Mystro isnt a consumer product. Like MS media center.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> Moxi was the first attempt, i dont see why other wouldnt.


you are aware that Moxi failed miserably in selling any real volume of DVRs and sold itself to some little known company for only 20 million, right?


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## rv65 (Aug 30, 2008)

Actually the Motorola TA can do more than 2 tuners.


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

I don't know who makes the DVR for the ATT U-Verse service, but it is capable of streaming/recording 4 events simultaneously. If I wasn't already heavily invested and addicted to TiVo, I'd jump to that in a heartbeat.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

SpiritualPoet said:


> I don't know who makes the DVR for the ATT U-Verse service, but it is capable of streaming/recording 4 events simultaneously. If I wasn't already heavily invested and addicted to TiVo, I'd jump to that in a heartbeat.


The DVR software experience is Microsoft:
http://www.microsoft.com/Mediaroom/GetMM.aspx


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

ZeoTiVo said:


> you are aware that Moxi failed miserably in selling any real volume of DVRs and sold itself to some little known company for only 20 million, right?


But, its still for sale, oh didnt IBM fail to sell , it first computer.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

SpiritualPoet said:


> I don't know who makes the DVR for the ATT U-Verse service, but it is capable of streaming/recording 4 events simultaneously. If I wasn't already heavily invested and addicted to TiVo, I'd jump to that in a heartbeat.


With AT&T U-Verse service, there's a centralized box. This box supports up to 4 SD streams and up to 1-2 HD streams (depending on your proximity to the CO). No matter how many boxes you have, you're limited to that number of streams. The U-Verse boxes access and record these streams.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Videodrome said:


> But, its still for sale, oh didnt IBM fail to sell , it first computer.


The problem for any DVR entrant remains the (a) high cost of software development, (b) relatively high cost of the hardware, (c) cost of guide data, (d) widespread availability of cable and satellite DVRs with little or no upfront cost, and (e) the consumers' reluctance to pay monthly fees or pay more than $300 for a DVR.

When the cost of hardware and guide data is essentially the same for everyone, it makes it very difficult to produce a competitive DVR unless the cost of the software is amortized cost across a large volume of units. But it's impossible to sell a large volume of units without competitive software. Furthermore, competitive software is no guarantee of consumer acceptance.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Videodrome said:


> The current tivo is interface is really bad , its slow, bumpy and its please wait for everything. Anyone with a little effort could succeed tivo. Moxi was the first attempt, i dont see why other wouldnt.


Maybe on your box, but not mine, there's no constant please wait for anything other than reordering SPs (which I rarely do). Does it need an HD interface? Yes, but it won't happen on current hardware. But the important thing is that it's not universally slow here. I'd rather have a DVR that works than one that randomly decides not to respond to remote control at all (see: Comcast's Moto DVR).

And Moxi blew it because Digeo either didn't have enough cash or the marketing was run by monkeys.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

The Tivo interface is truly superb! I've experienced only 4 hi-tech devices that I've found elegant, brilliant, and addicting--the Macintosh, the Palm, the iPod Touch, and Tivo!

Sure, there are some glitches in there and certainly the boxes would benefit from a souped up, high-end CPU--and it would be wonderful if one could play Joost, cbs.com, or Hulu through the boxes--but as to its general interface, Tivo really did things well.

Now, as to Tivo 4... my wishes are modest. Let's bring back the DVD burner/players (with optionl blu-ray), add an iPod docking station (for playback, uploading, and downloading), large HDs with very fast CPUs, and high speed built in wireless networking. That's not too much to ask for, is it?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> But, its still for sale, oh didnt IBM fail to sell , it first computer.


IBM makes its money from services and constantly adjusts the hardware side of the house. IBM does well with R&D into new ways to do things with hardware but the make current hardware and sell it division is an ugly stepchild. You really do not know much about this topic so I do not see why you keep going on trying to prove some point that is not even clear.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> IBM makes its money from services and constantly adjusts the hardware side of the house. IBM does well with R&D into new ways to do things with hardware but the make current hardware and sell it division is an ugly stepchild. You really do not know much about this topic so I do not see why you keep going on trying to prove some point that is not even clear.


There may be a point floating around there, somewhere. I don't think IBM's 701 is doing too well nowadays: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/701/701_intro.html

However, the z/Series continues on with it's ancestry going back to the S/360 days...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

orangeboy said:


> There may be a point floating around there, somewhere. I don't think IBM's 701 is doing too well nowadays: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/701/701_intro.html
> 
> However, the z/Series continues on with it's ancestry going back to the S/360 days...


I found my in to my career on retiring small S/36 as the business clients moved on to AS/400 stuff. I did not say the hardware was bad - I said IBM does not make much money on the hardware. I happen to think that IBM made the best. mid range stuff. Ever.

The point was to Videodrome's remark about IBM PCs as showing how other DVRs could make it. IBM PC was the worst stuff EVER.


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## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I found my in to my career on retiring small S/36 as the business clients moved on to AS/400 stuff. I did not say the hardware was bad - I said IBM does not make much money on the hardware. I happen to think that IBM made the best. mid range stuff. Ever.
> 
> The point was to Videodrome's remark about IBM PCs as showing how other DVRs could make it. IBM PC was the worst stuff EVER.


Yeah, I know - I was just playin' 
Videodrome just said IBM's first computer - not first _personal_ computer


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Say, what happened to idle speculation, gossiping, and rumor mongering about Tivo Series 4? 

I know-- the big innovation will be consumer choice of brightly colored face plates! Or, an Apple inspired remote control that has only ONE button!


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Or, an Apple inspired remote control that has only ONE button!


How about scraping the remote and having a touchscreen TV


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Now i am thinking why doesnt Tivo compete against MS. Make a 8 tuner option. Then just sell extenders, because then they would be on par, with a video server. They could still make 2 tuner, or lower priced options. The goal is to have as few cablecards as possible.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> Now i am thinking why doesnt Tivo compete against MS. Make a 8 tuner option. Then just sell extenders, because then they would be on par, with a video server. They could still make 2 tuner, or lower priced options. The goal is to have as few cablecards as possible.


why do you think tivo needs anything more than 2 tuners to compete with MS?

I dont have any numbers to back it up, but my estimation of the situation is that Tivo has plenty more actively running DVR's than MS does? (there's probably tens or hundreds of millions of media center OS's in the wild, but i think the vast vast vast majority aren't being used as a DVR- most people probably dont even know their Vista PC's have such an abiluty by just adding a tuner or 2 or 4 or 8...)

Just becasue they dont aim for the market that you or I might want doesn't mean they aren't doing the wisest thing for them.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Videodrome said:


> Now i am thinking why doesnt Tivo compete against MS. Make a 8 tuner option. Then just sell extenders, because then they would be on par, with a video server. They could still make 2 tuner, or lower priced options. The goal is to have as few cablecards as possible.


One thing I can think of is that if they limit you to 2 tuners per box, and you need 8, then you're forced to buy four boxes and pay for four subscriptions. Which in turn means more money for them.

The only thing I think will ever force TiVo to put out a box with more then two tuners is pressure from cable companies. If they start offering units with 4 or 8 tuners then TiVo will have to follow suit to keep up. But the fact that it's possible to build a $1,000+ MPC with 4-8 tuners is not going to be much motivation for them since most average customers don't have the means or the know how to put something like that together.

Cable DVRs are TiVo's only real competition, not MPCs. MPCs are a totally separate market segment, just like gaming PCs are in a different market segment then the XBox, PS3 or Wii. Both have their place, and their following, but they don't really compete directly with one another.

Dan


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

petew said:


> How about scraping the remote and having a touchscreen TV


I know you're just kidding, because that would mean that we all would have to get our (fat) asses out of the recliner to operate the UI.

Like that's going to happen!


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## mrlajoie (Aug 18, 2003)

This seems to make the most sense to me as TiVo worked closely with Comcast on their TiVo branded unit in the past. Seems like a revenue maker for both TiVo and Comcast. I was never a fan of the Comcast/TiVo. You think your TiVo Series 2/3 are slow, you should try the Comcast version!


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## Naugahide (Jan 25, 2008)

Found the following interesting article:

Broadcom's new DVR chip could make all our dreams come true

The jist of it:



> It of course supports tru2way and CableCARD, but more interestingly; MoCA 1.1, DLNA, Flash (as in video streaming), DOCSIS 3.0, and a 3D graphics engine. This means that little little guy could be the key to a multi-room DVR without running wires, that will play Hulu directly from the internet as well as stream content from PlayOn, all via a great looking user interface.


Having an on-board 3d chip could/should make for a very interesting UI update.

See also:

BCM7125 and BCM7119 HD Cable Set-Top Box SoC Solutions 

So, let's order up one, break out the soldering irons and see how it goes!


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## johnm4 (Jun 23, 2008)

Naugahide said:


> Found the following interesting article:
> 
> Broadcom's new DVR chip could make all our dreams come true
> 
> ...


This is what I'm waiting for. I won't buy another TivoHD but I'll pony up some money for the next model if they can get their act together. One thing's for sure, it better be able to stream Hulu and the like.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

johnm4 said:


> One thing's for sure, it better be able to stream Hulu and the like.


No STBs are allowed to legally stream Hulu. Hulu doesn't have the rights to allow this for pretty much any of their content. This is why Hulu has to play a cat and mouse game with Boxee.


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## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

SpiritualPoet said:


> I don't know who makes the DVR for the ATT U-Verse service, but it is capable of streaming/recording 4 events simultaneously. If I wasn't already heavily invested and addicted to TiVo, I'd jump to that in a heartbeat.


But a max of 2 HD streams for the whole house. Too little for me.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> I'd rather have a DVR that works than one that randomly decides not to respond to remote control at all


Saw this and had to laugh. My S2DT crashed this weekend coming out of an HME app. Thought it would recover on it's own, so turned off the set and walked away. Came back 12 hours later and still hung. Had to pull the plug to get it to work.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

The TiVo is pretty stable IMHO, but I've never yet seen it recover on its own. HME is slightly broken on the S2, probably the least stable part of the system.


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

wmcbrine said:


> The TiVo is pretty stable IMHO


my only problem ever with my Tivo (either of my series2 models) has been crashes of the internal "web server" when I do a lot of Tivo2go downloading... the Tivo will just stop responding to polling via either web-browser or TiVoPlaylist until after I unplug/power cycle the unit


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