# Lost - 5/10 - ?



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Here we go..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

what's funny is that I originally posted the title of the thread as just "Lost - 5/10" because I didn't know the title because I was watching it on HD.


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

How did it go from night to day so fast and didn't Libby leave Hurly during daylight to get the blankets? The time frame to start the show seems very off.


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## f0gax (Aug 8, 2002)

Anyone having bad pixelation in HD? It's terrible for me. Watching on 28 in Tampa.

Checked the weather and it appears to be clear between me and the transmitter. Just wondering if I'm alone. If so, then it's a Pirate's life for me I guess.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Would you like to watch that again?


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## flyers088 (Apr 19, 2005)

Poor John, being played again!!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Gate 23

Psyched we got to see the psychic


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

Anyone able to fully pull up www.subLYMONal.com yet?


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## nKhona (Apr 7, 2005)

Nope it's still loading for me.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

ok, episode over, finally time to rewind and look at those clips at the beginning..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Todd said:


> Anyone able to fully pull up www.subLYMONal.com yet?


Nope, and I had my laptop on my lap from the last commercial break, so I entered the URL within about 1 second of seeing it, so it wasn't hosed with traffic or anything..

Ooh.. it finally stopped saying loading.. (pause).. then it said it again. bah.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ok.. so wasn't that the same actor that said he was Dr. Marvin Candle, but now saying he was someone else?


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

I was able to finally pull up that website...



Spoiler



It just consists of TV screen with static on them rotating around the word, "obey". After waiting a certain number of seconds at each screen, you can click on each one and they rotate one at a time. Once you click on one, it turns green. Once you do all of them, they all spin around and then you get "loading" again. Then, a subliminal message comes up. "Code: Heir Apparent". There is a hidden link on there to the hansofoundation.org website. And that site's slammed at the moment.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

No No No... click the TVs... and you get a code


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

I am in and see the code if anyon e wants it... and there is a hidden link tot he hanso foundation


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Ok.. so wasn't that the same actor that said he was Dr. Marvin Candle, but now saying he was someone else?


it certainly seemed that way, though his hand was real and not prosthetic. IIRC, the other oerientation film was pre-1980, which makes it even stranger. At this point, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the altered name and fake/real hand just being more logs on the fire. The videos were created in a pointed manner. For some reason they want occupants of the Swan to think that Dr. Candle is missing one hand. Maybe psychologically they link the "incident" to his hand. In reality, this is just one large mind F and nothing can be taken at face value b/c the writers of the show will just want to keep their wow factor. And all I can say is...WOW!


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Wow, good episode.

Loved how the plane was over the ?

So maybe walt or the others were actually talking to michael and he was not just dreaming it. Good stuff


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fast-clips after Anna said "you need to help John":

* In the water at the beach, looking at the beach (probably when the crash happened)

* One of the explosions in the jungle (like when that thing was coming after Locke when they had the explosives)

* One of the bodies that Eko removed from the water, floating face down

* The cross from his brother's neck, lying alone in the dirt

* The primitive-others feet walking through the jungle (from when he saw them with Jin)

* The Teddy Bear being dragged, same scene

* A fire

* Jin blindfolded

* The original array of statues filled with Heroine (from his last flashback episode)

* Eko and Charlie looking at the burning plane

* His brother in a church

* The Dharma logo in the tailey's hatch, with fire in front of it

* The view of Eko's hands holding that Holy Bible before he opened it in the tailey's hatch

* His Jesus stick with writing

* Him holding the jaw of his burned brother

* Locke's concerned face, looks like in the main hatch

* The view OF Eko from behind the black cloud (i.e. looking through the black cloud at Eko)

* The cross on his brother's corpse

* The drug plane just when it was taking off

* The military guys coming to get Eko while that plane took off

* His brother screaming

* Dr. Marvin Candle from the original orientation video

* The Swan Dharma logo in the main hatch


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

I think the site is getting DNS attacks form everyone trying to hit it at once.


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## jk5598224 (Jan 29, 2003)

Any idea why they got rid of Ana Lucia and the other girl Libby? Was it because of the DUI's? Maybe becase Michelle Rodriguez still has outstanding case in LA? I guess minimum employment on Lost in not gauranteed.

Just curious, too bad for them.


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

Grumpy Pants said:


> No No No... click the TVs... and you get a code


What do you mean, no no no?? I just explained the whole thing in the previous message. I spoilerized it in case someone didn't want to know without doing it first.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

I was so excited that I didn;t read the whole thing... sorry


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

I can;t get into the site though?


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

lol


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

If that tape had been done in 1980, didn't those TV's look rather old??


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

They didn't loo too old to be from 1980, perhaps they had to remake the film


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

I was rolling when I saw them put in a 3/4" tape. Funny that they would shoot one orientation movie on film and one on tape. I wonder what the significance, if any, there is.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

flyers088 said:


> How did it go from night to day so fast and didn't Libby leave Hurly during daylight to get the blankets? The time frame to start the show seems very off.


thats what i was thinking...
last episode, libby left hurley during the day for blankets....gets shot....this episode starts at night with mike running out saying he got shot....20 - 30 minutes earlier...HOW...then its light again?

the two "different" doctors...
1 with a fake arm (pre 1980s) and one with both arms (1980s)

does this back up that alternate time line theory? or bad twins/clones theory?


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

jk5598224 said:


> Any idea why they got rid of Ana Lucia and the other girl Libby?


It's a TV show, people die.



jk5598224 said:


> Was it because of the DUI's?


No.



jk5598224 said:


> Maybe becase Michelle Rodriguez still has outstanding case in LA?


No again.



jk5598224 said:


> I guess minimum employment on Lost in not gauranteed.


Actually, minimum employment is the only guarantee.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

No one has gotten into the site yet huh?


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

scheckeNYK said:


> I was rolling when I saw them put in a 3/4" tape. Funny that they would shoot one orientation movie on film and one on tape. I wonder what the significance, if any, there is.


One location had a film projector and one location had a tape player.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Grumpy Pants said:


> No one has gotten into the site yet huh?


Based on your previous post, I thought you had? I also thought Todd had?


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

Spoiler



into the hanso site. The two previous sites just give you a code that must unlock another easter egg at the hanso site


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

I agree the timeline didn't make sense either. It's night, it's day, it's night, well what is it really???


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Great episode and we had horrible pixelation here in Baltimore. But the abc channel is always not too good for some reason.

I find it interesting that Eko is seeing dead people now. How many people have seen dead people on the island? 

The orientation tape was a chuckle. Maybe the next hatch it wll be a dvd. It was sad that Libby didn't get to blurt out who did it. Poor gal.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Todd said:


> Anyone able to fully pull up www.subLYMONal.com yet?


For us that are a little slower... where did you hear about this site from?


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

betts4 said:


> ...It was sad that Libby didn't get to blurt out who did it. Poor gal.


she did...its just sad that she couldnt blurt out, "shot me"...or..."did it"


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> For us that are a little slower... where did you hear about this site from?


A commercial towards the end of the show.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> A commercial towards the end of the show.


You guys watch commercials?


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

GAH! My recording gave out right after Hurley said "Can I talk to her?" Rassin frassin' odd start and end times!! Can someone give me an explanation of the ending (and a spoilerized hit of the previews)? I'm dyin' here!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Yeah I got nostalgic for that old ImageWriter II printer too.

Printout says things like:

41602050:29 accepted

41602054:05 accepted

41602059:29 accepted

etc.. I was hoping to see a log of one case not being accepted, but nope.

So how far can that tube be taking things, really?

Top-loading vcr - gotta love it.

Dr. Mark Whitman is the name the Dr. Marvin Candle guy used in this orientation film.

{stupid-tangent-thought}
So hey, they show the DeGroot's monitoring some kids doing jumping jacks, all wearing the same tee-shirts and shorts.. wouldn't it be cool if those were our survivors, training for this mission before some voluntary memory-erasure/brainwashing took place?
{/stupid-tangent-thought}

"and the end of your 8-hour shift, proceed to the (unintelligible.. pall of ferry?) which will take you back to (barracks to prepare for you next..)"


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

greg_burns said:


> For us that are a little slower... where did you hear about this site from?


Twas another Hanso Org commercial...

Anyone care to say what happened after Hurley asked Jack to see Libby? Tivo got the 1:01 time wrong for this episode and it changed channels on me to record CSI-NY...

Also, anyone else notice Libby's physco B look when she interupted Eko in his last flashback?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

You know, that is the second time Locke has been to the plane/cliff and not been able to climb it because of his leg


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

jk5598224 said:


> Any idea why they got rid of Ana Lucia and the other girl Libby? Was it because of the DUI's? Maybe becase Michelle Rodriguez still has outstanding case in LA? I guess minimum employment on Lost in not gauranteed.
> 
> Just curious, too bad for them.


One guess is that the episode was filmed before the DUI's and they were out partying together since they are off the show now. That would be my best guess.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I also wondered if Michael may have killed Henry too. Or if Henry just ran off. I know that running off is what Michael said happened. But, maybe Henry is just rotting away somewhere in the hatch. Wonder if we will see him again?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

MitchO said:


> GAH! My recording gave out right after Hurley said "Can I talk to her?" Rassin frassin' odd start and end times!! Can someone give me an explanation of the ending (and a spoilerized hit of the previews)? I'm dyin' here!


Hurley: Can, can I talk to her?

Jack: Sure

(Hurley kneels down beside Libby, she opens her eyes kinda)

Hurley: Hey.. it's Hurley. (gnugo?) (almost crying) I'm sorry I forgot the blankets. (pause) I'm sorry I forgot the blankets..

(Libby's eyes shoot wide open, and she gasps)

Hurley: (concerned) Libby?

(Jack runs over)

Libby: Michael

Jack: Michael? He's ok.. He made it Libby, he's ok, it's alright.

(Libby starts to panic.. very scared look on her eyes.. she gasps, then stops breathing, and I swear it looks like her eyes are actually dilating.. Hurley looks on, sad, then starts sobbing. Jack closes Libby's eyes. Hurley holds her hand)

AGH! Wow, my recording apparently didn't catch it either, because it stopped right there! I watched it live on HD so I'm missing the rest - sorry.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

betts4 said:


> I also wondered if Michael may have killed Henry too. Or if Henry just ran off. I know that running off is what Michael said happened. But, maybe Henry is just rotting away somewhere in the hatch. Wonder if we will see him again?


haha i thought for a second that locke n eko would see somthing fishy happen on the monitor...like mike finishing off libby or hiding henrys body would have been good...oh well


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> One guess is that the episode was filmed before the DUI's and they were out partying together since they are off the show now. That would be my best guess.


You don't have to guess. Both the producers and Michelle Rodriguez have stated that she was only hired to do one season, it was her wish going into it. No word on Cynthia Watros (Libby).


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

There is an interview with a couple of the producers where they say that they had planned on killing off Ana-Lucia from the very beginning and Michelle Rodreguiz knew when she signed up for the part. They also admit that when the two got the DUIs everyone would think it was because of the DUIs that they killed them off, but it wasn't. I'll try to find the cite.

And, if you want to know what is going on with the www.subLYMONal.com site, it's all covered on www.thelostexperience.com . Just another part of the game.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Test said:


> haha i thought for a second that locke n eko would see somthing fishy happen on the monitor...like mike finishing off libby or hiding henrys body would have been good...oh well


Yeah thought that too.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Locke and Ecko enter a room full of old TV monitors. Who else was thinking of that old guy from the third Matrix movie?

Who else thought that Locke would find a way to rewind the feed and see Michael shooting AL and Libbey?

Who else would have liked it if Libbey had been able to keep talking and say ".....IS A GIANT ******" or ".......SHOT ME" or "......WAS IN THE MATRIX" LOL


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Libby: Michael
> 
> Jack: Michael? He's ok.. He made it Libby, he's ok, it's alright.


Libby: (Thinking to herself) Enough Jack, we know...hes ok...stop rubbing it in...


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> One location had a film projector and one location had a tape player.


well the DI didn't just work with whatever was in the hatch...someone had to have put the projector and tape player in the respective hatches. Why the discrepancy? Why would orientation films be shot on two different formats, and why would the narrator try to conceal his identity?

Now that we know that the asian guy is not necessarily Dr. Candle (or Dr. Whitman) is it possible he is "HIM" ???


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## devlindark (Jul 20, 2005)

I love how all of you are obsessed with time lines and what type of media the video's were on, but how soon we forget that they have a brand new washer dryer in the hatch, wonder where that came from - a drop like the food I guess but then who brought them in 
since when the survivors got into the hatch there was only one guy left in there. A lot of things are just what they are no explanation is going to be given you just accept it and move on...The TV's are just what they are Old TV'S although they do look proper to the period, to many of you think HDTV is old school how soon you forget what it was like to not have a remote control, the old turn nob Gotta miss them in a I never what to see on again way though 

In the end another Great Episode though I don't get Echo's now vested interest in pushing the button or what work he thinks he will be doing - unless it's just having faith in something I guess


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## Bradc314 (Dec 4, 2001)

RE: http://www.sublymonal.com/

It seems to me the number of clicks necessary to turn a TV 'green' corresponds to The Code.


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## devlindark (Jul 20, 2005)

I bet someone goes to that hatch and finds the tape of michael shooting the girls eventually - Then again with this show you never know anything


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## yostmatt (Apr 6, 2005)

devlindark said:


> I bet someone goes to that hatch and finds the tape of michael shooting the girls eventually - Then again with this show you never know anything


I thought the same thing, maybe it was just live video and not recorded.

We might need Jack Bauer to solve this one.


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Hurley: Can, can I talk to her?
> 
> Jack: Sure
> 
> ...


I'm confused... So there is still more after Libby starts to panic??? My recording cut out just like the other poster - right when Hurley goes to talk to her.

Can anyone post the rest?

God I hate these irregular program lengths!

Thanks,
Dolf


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

If it's being recorded, why would they bother having people log all the information in notebooks? Unless of course they are also part of the experiment...


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

New line in Las Vegas:

Which episode will it be before Locke says anything about the Pearl hatch?

kel


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

So the streaming shows on www.abc.com, did that just start tonight or last week? In other words, when will the latest episode of Lost be up there?

Nevermind. I see now that it says "new every Thursday".


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Holy crap! It took us half a season to open the last hatch and enter it. This one it takes 5 minutes.

My DVR cut out, too. It was weird because it was still on the same channel and even though I backed it up, it stopped at 5 minutes into the hour and would not go back any further. Weird.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

And why do they keep referring to the "Hatch"? Its a bunker, the hatch is only the entrance to the bunker. In the same vein, Ecko refers to pushing the "Button". THERE IS NO BUTTON! What they are doing is keying in a series of numbers ON A KEYBOARD!


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

scottykempf said:


> And why do they keep referring to the "Hatch"? Its a bunker, the hatch is only the entrance to the bunker. In the same vein, Ecko refers to pushing the "Button". THERE IS NO BUTTON! What they are doing is keying in a series of numbers ON A KEYBOARD!


Last time I checked, I pressed buttons on my keyboard, you?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Sorry, but they keep saying "Press the button" not "Punch in The Magic Numbers on the keyboard and THEN press the execute button." Minor symantics


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

You DO press the button. Without pressing "Execute", nothing happens. Ergo, "press the button". This is standard compu-speak.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Can we start a new Lost drinking game? Every time someone posts saying "I wonder if Ana Lucia and Libby were killed off because of their DUIs?", everyone on the board has to take a drink.

We gonna need more drinks, though. 

Liked the Applewriter printer too. Had one, sounded just like it.

If the numbers on the log are minutes, then the log numbers go back some 31 years. Or just over 200,000 108-minute segments. But the numbers seemed oddly spaced, though noticed they started "416". I need to look at them more closely.

Eko's statement earlier in the season to Locke about "Do not mistake coincidence for fate" makes more sense to me now.

Jumping episode. The last two episodes have really refocused things. But I hope Libby was just having a reaction to the heroin and didn't actually die.


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## Chapper1 (Jan 2, 2004)

Todd said:


> Anyone able to fully pull up www.subLYMONal.com yet?


The one thing that struck me as odd when this commercial aired...



Spoiler



a few seconds into it, it said on the lower left side of the screen, "paid for by Sprite". When I saw the site name, a lightbulb went off because old school Sprite commercials said that Sprite had Lymon. Also explains why the "obey" is in the middle of the TVs on the website


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Our signal cut out during the conversation between Echo and the Monsignor. What was it Echo said just before the Monsignor said, "Why do you think I'm sending you?" (or something like that).


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

I think the main message from the last two episodes is: If you're a single gal, don't even think about trying to find a boyfriend or have sex on the island. It is a capital offense.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Eko told the Monsignor that with all due respect he didn't believe the woman. The Monsignor then replies with "Why do you think I chose you?"


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

scottykempf said:


> Locke and Ecko enter a room full of old TV monitors. Who else was thinking of that old guy from the third Matrix movie?


Sorry for the nit-pick, but that was the second Matrix movie.

Did anyone else consider the fact that this episode featured a girl who died and came back to life, while Libby's backstory is not yet completed. I would not be surprised if we haven't seen the last of Ms. Watros (and not just flashbacks).


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Thanks, Delta. That was so frustrating because it was obviously a key line at least within the scene.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

More of that interview with Lindelof and Cuse (show runners) on the Ausiello Report. They talk about Libby.


Spoiler



The character Libby is dead, but her backstory will be finished, posthumously. So I was right -- we will be seeing more of Ms. Watros; and I was wrong -- Libby is dead.
I must admit, their explanations felt very forced and I am starting to feel pretty sure that the DUI was not coincidental to them being off the show.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

wprager said:


> Sorry for the nit-pick, but that was the second Matrix movie.


Yeah, I couldn't remember which one it was, but doesn't really matter anyway. 
Just want to hear Locke say to Jack 
"Do not try and understand the Island. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth. ... There is no Island. Then you'll see that it is not the Island that exists, it is only yourself."
LOL (changes mine)


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Edit:


> Eko told the Monsignor that with all due respect he didn't believe the woman. The Monsignor then replies with "Why do you think I chose you?"


Wasn't there a scenario with dialogue like that in a Dan Brown book. Can''t remember which one though.

kel


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Regarding the TVs in the hatch: In 1980 I became the proud owner of a 19" Sony Trinitron and it looked nothing like the TVs in the hatch. The wide bezel on those TVs look more like early 60s than 1980. 

They do look old though, and if you're not a picky SOB then that's all that matters!


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

We only know the Tape was made (or remade) in 1980, not that the hatch was created then.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Remember that the films/videos were copyrighted around 1980. There is no indication when the equipment was purchased or installed (though clearly earlier), so we don't know how old they really are.

Don't forget to add Locke to the list now of seeing dead people. He saw someone in a dream he's never seen before.


EDIT: aw shucks, beat to it!


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

Its funny that subLYMONal is just subliminal with a different spelling.


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

I'm sure it's just not been posted and all your smart people know it already, but the father of the girl that died and came back...he was the psychic who told Claire her baby was evil...right?


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

Chandler Mike said:


> I'm sure it's just not been posted and all your smart people know it already, but the father of the girl that died and came back...he was the psychic who told Claire her baby was evil...right?


Post #7!


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Right, Mike.

It makes me want to go back and review that Season 1 episode. It must be that he's like Whoopie Goldberg in Ghost. He's a fraud, but then he has a genuine psychic experience; that rocks his world and he is compelled to "help."

Edit: right that it's the same psychic. I don't think he told Claire her baby would be evil, although that is one of many inferences that could be made.


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

DUSlider said:


> Post #7!


Oops, missed it! Thanks


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> Right, Mike.
> 
> It makes me want to go back and review that Season 1 episode. It must be that he's like Whoopie Goldberg in Ghost. He's a fraud, but then he has a genuine psychic experience; that rocks his world and he is compelled to "help."
> 
> Edit: right that it's the same psychic. I don't think he told Claire her baby would be evil, although that is one of many inferences that could be made.


WHat did he tell her though?

I thought it was something like "This baby shouldn't be born..." or something?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Chandler Mike said:


> WHat did he tell her though?
> 
> I thought it was something like "This baby shouldn't be born..." or something?


That she shouldn't give the baby to strangers.

Is anyone else digging the Adventures of Eko and John?
When they first met in the hatch, I knew that they would be an interesting team.
Glad to see that getting play.

Oh, did you notice that in Locke's dream, Eko/Locke was limping?



dolfer said:


> I'm confused... So there is still more after Libby starts to panic??? My recording cut out just like the other poster - right when Hurley goes to talk to her.
> 
> Can anyone post the rest?
> 
> ...


Yeah, they changed the guide length at the last day.
If your TiVo didn't connect today, it wouldn't have gotten the change.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=299207

(waits for the screaming that TiVo should have done more about this)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

DUSlider said:


> Post #7!


Hey! That was mine!  He smeeked me!


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

Wow!!!


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

Still waiting for someone to spoilerize the previews from next week...


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

teknikel said:


> New line in Las Vegas:
> 
> Which episode will it be before Locke says anything about the Pearl hatch?
> 
> kel


I wouldn't tell ANYone.... I'd keep it my secret an I'd be visitiing it everytime I knew Kate was getting ready to take a shower!


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Here's the picture of the psychic from "Raised By Another":



and from "?":



I re-watched the first orientation film, and it is also copyrighted 1980.

I never noticed that he never uses his left arm - even when he says "Namaste" you can only see one hand.

I think it makes sense that the "Pearl" video implies that the tests subjects are "just" part of an experiment. You wouldn't want you observers trying to interfere in the experiment. Therefore, I think that the "research" is real, and not just a pyschology study.

I can't figure out why Dr. "M" (Marvin\Mark) would use different names on the videos.


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## forecheck (Aug 5, 2000)

Another great episode!


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> Liked the Applewriter printer too. Had one, sounded just like it.


Actually, the printer shown was an Apple ImageWriter II, which was made between 1985 and 1996. The model featured was an early model, based on the white color (later models were light grey or "platinum" as Apple called the color.) That printer does not match up with the other Apple hardware, which is the same as in the "hatch." The components are an Apple ][ (or ][ Plus) which were made between 1977 and 1983, a pair of original Apple 5.25 floppy disk drives, which were made from 1978 until about 1983, and an Apple Monitor /// (with Apple ][ stand) which was introduced in 1980.

(Yes, I am familiar with just about every hardware component Apple has ever sold, since I used to be an Apple service tech.) BTW, no Apple keyboard has ever included an "execute" key, but the keyboard looks right otherwise.

The TV sets are obviously from the 60's or 70's, but the video camera shown would not have been available until the late 80's. Another thing (which all TV shows seem to do) is that the sets would not show static when being fed a video signal from a camera, unless we are supposed to believe that the cameras are being broadcast over the air. (This is a pet peeve, just like when someone on TV hangs up a phone and the listener hears a dial tone -- sorry, don't TV writers use phones?)

Sorry for the tech rant.


----------



## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Why didnt they flip on the other monitors to see what's going on in the other hatches? Would be a good way to spy on the Others.


----------



## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

scottykempf said:


> And why do they keep referring to the "Hatch"? Its a bunker, the hatch is only the entrance to the bunker. In the same vein, Ecko refers to pushing the "Button". THERE IS NO BUTTON! What they are doing is keying in a series of numbers ON A KEYBOARD!


Yep, both those issues have been driving me nuts all season!


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Todd said:


> Yep, both those issues have been driving me nuts all season!


THOSE are the issues driving you nuts?!  Not the missing smoke monster, french lady, and Desmond?

I'm starting to think that something supernatural (religious maybe?) is happening that the experimentors did not expect. The dreams and psychic stuff happening to the survivors on and off the island could not all be explained as coming from the island. I think the experiments are "evil" in nature and the 815 survivors are supposed to stop it.


----------



## ElVee (Feb 20, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> Can we start a new Lost drinking game? Every time someone posts saying "I wonder if Ana Lucia and Libby were killed off because of their DUIs?", everyone on the board has to take a drink.


Can we also drink every time someone posts "I saw it in the commercial", and is followed up by someone saying "You watch commercials?"?


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Chibbie said:


> I can't figure out why Dr. "M" (Marvin\Mark) would use different names on the videos.


Or, apparently, fake having an incapacitated arm.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Chapper1 said:


> The one thing that struck me as odd when this commercial aired...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sprite had "Limon", not "Lymon". Lime + Lemon = Limon.


----------



## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

I think the "watchers" in the pearl hatch were also part of a study. Notice how there was a camera in the "camera room." The only reason for that is to have another main headquarters where they can possibly watch _everything_ including the pearl hatch.



Jeeters said:


> Sprite had "Limon", not "Lymon". Lime + Lemon = Limon.


It's clearly associated with sprite, since it was paid for by them and when you get to the site it says "Obey" which is sprites tagline.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

scheckeNYK said:


> I was rolling when I saw them put in a 3/4" tape. Funny that they would shoot one orientation movie on film and one on tape. I wonder what the significance, if any, there is.


Because the hatch with the tape had TV's on which you could watch a video tape, the hatches with the film did not.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Ecko took the printout with the "accepted" number right? When he goes through them, won't he see Michael and Walt talking on the computer? That may be how they find out Michael has been compromised.


----------



## StrynBean (Aug 5, 2004)

In Ecko's dream, his brother says "make John take you to the question mark." or something like that. When he climbs the cliff and looks down, the plane is the bottom of the question mark.

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x21/questionMark.jpg


----------



## StrynBean (Aug 5, 2004)

Ok, I opened the Hanso site and now the music won't stop playing on my computer! I closed all my IE windows but it is still playing!

UGGHHH

I guess I will have to restart.


----------



## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

StrynBean said:


> In Ecko's dream, his brother says "make John take you to the question mark." or something like that. When he climbs the cliff and looks down, the plane is the bottom of the question mark.
> 
> http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x21/questionMark.jpg


Thanks bean.. me and my wife were trying to figure out what they were showing in that frame. All I saw was what looked like a circle, a dark spot, and the plane.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Wow, good episode! I thought having another psychic was fishy so it must have been Claire's but I swore Claire's psychic was a woman. Guess I was wrong.

I couldn't tell if the "?" in the ground was just a circle or a question mark. Thanks for the screencap. (last time I let my BF talk me into watching Lost at his non-HD house!)

Poor Locke


----------



## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

Regarding Dr. Candle/Dr Wendhall (Him?): He said that "they," referring to one or more of the stations, think that what they are doing is important, but that it is actually just part of an experiment. He didn't say which station it is that he is referring to. It could be that they are all doing fake experiments, it could be Swan's button pushing is fake, it could be that another station is doing something fake, it very well could be that Pearl is the one doing fake stuff (seems awfully odd to record every detail, no matter how small it may seem). In which case Locke may have lost faith in the button for no reason.
The psychic told Eko he is a fake, but he seemed real enough during the Claire part... unless he knew she would come back. Perhaps he faked the first two, then was contacted by the people who run the island that they wanted her on Flight 815 he made up a story to get her on. My guess is he lied to Eko to not only get Eko away, but he knew he would be on Flight 815 as well.
Regarding Libby


Spoiler



Who was in the picture with Desmond? Was it her?


----------



## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> You guys watch commercials?


Yep, every week Tuesday through Friday when I'm sitting in a hotel room. Should I close my eyes or mute the TV?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

laststarfighter said:


> Why didnt they flip on the other monitors to see what's going on in the other hatches? Would be a good way to spy on the Others.


It looked to me like he did try to turn them all on, at least more than one, my guess is that they didn't work...


----------



## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Michael S said:


> Its funny that subLYMONal is just subliminal with a different spelling.


ZOOM


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

glumlord said:


> Thanks bean.. me and my wife were trying to figure out what they were showing in that frame. All I saw was what looked like a circle, a dark spot, and the plane.


I still say there wasn't a ? there, my wife tried to say there was, but it looked more like a Target to me, which is excactly what Eco said, "A Circle", "Like a target", go back and listen for yourself.


----------



## coachmo (Sep 6, 2004)

For the SECOND time this season TIVO has stopped the last 5 minutes...It only happens for LOST! no other shows ever are affected!

WHAT HAPPENED!

IT cut off as LIBBY was going to speak to HURLEY. 

PREVIEWS???


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Several observations:

1) I thought one of the coolest things about the episode was when *Locke* sees Eko's brother in a dream. (And, is in fact, dreaming that he is Eko). Also, Eko appeared to know the content of John's dream (of course, Locke may have been talking in his sleep). In any case, this suggests there's "something to" Eko's dreams.

2) The psychic, who turns out to be the "miracle" girl's father, is adamant that there is no miracle, and adamant that he is a fraud. However, when the girl finds Eko at the airport, she has clearly seen Eko's brother during her "near death" experience, making the "miracle" plausible again. As has been stated, the psychic seemed pretty genuine when he became so fearful of Claire's baby. So, is he a fraud or isn't he? If he's a fraud, is he working for Darhma?

3) I had earlier predicted that we'd meet Dr. Candle again, and that his prosthetic/paralyzed arm would prove to be important. I was right! But not for any reason I could possibly have imagined! (Love this show!) His arm and name were "important" because when we see him again, *his arm is fine and he's using a different name!* Both films/videos were copyright 1980, so we can assume they were made around the same time. This would mean he's probably faking the "paralyzed" arm in the "Swan" video. What's up with that, and with his using different names in the two videos?

BTW: In the "Swan" video, he's "Dr. Marvin Candle". In the "Pearl" video, he's "Dr. Mark Wickman" (or, perhaps, Whittman).


----------



## StrynBean (Aug 5, 2004)

DUSlider said:


> Still waiting for someone to spoilerize the previews from next week...


You can watch the previews for next week here:

http://www.lostlinks.net/

They also have the one from Canada TV.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

laststarfighter said:


> Why didnt they flip on the other monitors to see what's going on in the other hatches? Would be a good way to spy on the Others.


He did, they were all static except their hatch


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Charon2 said:


> Regarding Dr. Candle/Dr Wendhall (Him?): He said that "they," referring to one or more of the stations, think that what they are doing is important, but that it is actually just part of an experiment. He didn't say which station it is that he is referring to. It could be that they are all doing fake experiments, it could be Swan's button pushing is fake, it could be that another station is doing something fake, it very well could be that Pearl is the one doing fake stuff (seems awfully odd to record every detail, no matter how small it may seem). In which case Locke may have lost faith in the button for no reason.


But if the Pearl hatch is real and the others are all doing fake stuff, it would make sense to record everything. IF it is all an experiment to see if they will do it, they want it all documented on how they react and deal with everything. Otherwise there is no point to the experiment if you don't document it.


----------



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> But if the Pearl hatch is real and the others are all doing fake stuff, it would make sense to record everything. IF it is all an experiment to see if they will do it, they want it all documented on how they react and deal with everything. Otherwise there is no point to the experiment if you don't document it.


Right, which is why the stuff Eko and Locke found is just another experiment and not the method of recording what's actually going on. That explains the cameras watching the watchers too. The question is, what went wrong with the whole experiment?

The purgatory theorists would have been fueled last night as would the experiment theorists, so I don't think anything is any closer to being resolved.

Has anyone considered the possibility that the Dharma Initiative has spiked to food? If it is all part of a huge mind game, then doesn't it make sense that they would administer drugs? The drop of food that everyone is eating could easily include mind-enhancing drugs, creating the halucinations and vivid dreams.


----------



## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Lost usually runs past the 60 minute mark so you should give your season pass a 5 minute pad. Direct TV is better with the times, it will often show Lost running 63 minutes and Invasion as 57 minutes. Last night it was 65/55. I've never had a problem with Lost being cut off early.
As far as pixelation, there were a few seconds in the beginning half but it went away at the second half. Nothing major out of ABC NY feed last night.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

The day/night issues really bothered me this episode--normally I don't notice things like that, so for me to notice, it was really obvious.

John/Jack/Kate/Sawyer walk back to hatch in daylight, but it's night when John and Eko leave? And then it's day when Kate and Sawyer head back to the beach? Then John/Eko spend the night? And it's the next morning when Sawyer/Kate run into Hurley (I think that was the timeline). How can writers miss this stuff??


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

So how many 'hatches' are there? The orientation film at Pearl said (5 of 6)... 

The Losties Hatch (The Swan - Station 3)
The Tailies Hatch (The Arrow?)
The hatch that Kate found with the fake beard and makeup in it
and now "The Pearl".

So there are 2 other 'hatches'?

The 'map' Locke saw looked like it showed 7 (including the ? in the center).


Besides, why did Locke let the map get sucked up the vacume tube? I'd think they needed it!


----------



## joeinma (Jan 11, 2002)

When Ecko is on the cliff, he looks down sees the question mark and the upside down plane just below the dirt and black mark that made the ?. My first thought was question God...since the plane looked like a cross, so that it looked like this: 

? 
+ 

Since this was Ecko, I definitely thought that there was more to the plane then it was just covering the Pearl entrance. Ecko even kind of brings it up in his speech to Locke about his brother leaving Nigeria in the plane, him crashing here and finding his brother's plane, etc. Kind of a "who am I to question faith?" moment.


----------



## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

Philly Bill said:


> So how many 'hatches' are there? The orientation film at Pearl said (5 of 6)...
> 
> The Losties Hatch (The Swan - Station 3)
> The Tailies Hatch (The Arrow?)
> ...


There's also the hatch with the symbol from the shark. That one was different than the other ones we've seen.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

> Yep, every week Tuesday through Friday when I'm sitting in a hotel room. Should I close my eyes or mute the TV?


 As a dedicated TC member, you should obviously do both. 

I think it may be that our good Orientation doctor is using two fake names so far. C'mon, Candle and Wickman? (Candle and Wick... ??)

I don't believe it was a "?" from the cliff that Eko saw. The person in the Swan hatch didn't know what it was, so he labeled it a "?". It didn't mean it was exactly like one. In fact, it looked just like Yemi's cross on a chain, and I think it was supposed to.

Giving a certain twist to Boone's death, doesn't it? Suddenly it may not have been completely in vain.


----------



## Artfreak (May 19, 2005)

That link for www.sublymonal.com....



Spoiler



You have to click the TV's one at a time, with the Lost numbers...The first TV four times, the next 8 times, fifteen, and so on. Then, as mentioned, it gives you the code word, "heir apparent", and the link to www.thehansofoundation.org. On that site, if you look through the bios, the bio for Dr. Thomas Werner Mittlewerk has a floating window in the middle of the text. If you type in "heir apparent" into that window, it just sits there! I can't get it to do anything else!!! Aaargh!

I think it is an indication of "him" that the others are so afraid of. I think Hanso kicked it, and Mittlewerk took over, possibly became obsessed and is doing the island experiment in ways it wasn't intended. Mad scientist kind of thing.


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Philly Bill said:


> Besides, why did Locke let the map get sucked up the vacume tube? I'd think they needed it!


I think all that was useful on the map was the Question Mark. Since they know where it is, they don't need it.

I'm wondering if there will be consequences of the map going to the where it's supposed to. If anyone's there, then they will know that the Pearl location has been compromised.


----------



## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

Looks like the Pearl location has been abandoned for quite some time.

Did anyone notice Libby's chest







(yeah, I know... I know...) rising and lowering as she kept breathing after she died? LOL.


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

I wonder what the significance of the numbers on the printout are? The first part of the number looks like a counter, but the second part? Is that supposed to be the station number? Maybe 05 is the Swan Station (it's called Station 3 in the film), but then what about the 29? Is there another station on the island that is "pushing the button" every 108 minutes?


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

dtle said:


> I'm wondering if there will be consequences of the map going to the where it's supposed to. If anyone's there, then they will know that the Pearl location has been compromised.


Not likely. Since it doesn't look like anyone has been filling out thier notbooks for some time, I doubt there is anyone on the other end either of the pipe.


----------



## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

Philly Bill said:


> Looks like the Pearl location has been abandoned for quite some time.
> 
> Did anyone notice Libby's chest (yeah, I know... I know...) rising and lowering as she kept breathing after she died? LOL.


Not so much the rising and lowering, but I definitely noticed her chest, and I'm going to miss her if she's gone!


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I just thought I'd post a farewell until page 20.

That should happen sometime around lunchtime for me.

Greg


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

gchance said:


> I just thought I'd post a farewell until page 20.
> 
> That should happen sometime around lunchtime for me.
> 
> Greg


I have my TCF set for 50 pots per page. I only on page 3 on my lost list


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> I think it may be that our good Orientation doctor is using two fake names so far. C'mon, Candle and Wickman? (Candle and Wick... ??)


Hilarious! I didn't make that connection. Pretty funny.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I am still on the second page but I did a search for "Wick" and was surprised it took so long to come up. I'm sure it was Wickman and the minute he said it, I yelled out "Wick like Candle!"


----------



## TTitan (Sep 10, 2004)

Artfreak said:


> That link for www.sublymonal.com....
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Use the "breaking strain" password on the newsletter page again, then enter "heir apparent" on the bio page.


----------



## rlc1 (Sep 15, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> One guess is that the episode was filmed before the DUI's and they were out partying together since they are off the show now. That would be my best guess.


I wouldn't assume Ana Lucia and Libby are completely off the show yet. A lot of these actors keep coming back in bit parts even though you think there's no story left to tell about them (Jacks' dad, the "psychic", Ekos' brother, Locke's girlfriend, etc.). Sometimes these bit-part actors get more screen time than the supposedly main-line characters. When's the last time we saw Charlie or Claire get any significant screen time? We could potentially see Ana Lucia & Libby more than those two in upcoming episodes!


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Does anybody else think we should have seperate threads for the webstuff and the episode? While I LOVE lost, I just have zero interest in this extra web stuff....I prefer to just have it unfold on TV for me.


----------



## dba62 (Sep 2, 2005)

> I wonder what the significance of the numbers on the printout are. The first part of the number looks like a counter, but the second part? Is that supposed to be the station number? Maybe 05 is the Swan Station (it's called Station 3 in the film), but then what about the 29? Is there another station on the island that is "pushing the button" every 108 minutes?


I think it is the time in hours:minutes.

4160217:05 to 4160218:53 (guessing on the 3) is 1:48 minute difference or 108 minutes.


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Chibbie said:


> I wonder what the significance of the numbers on the printout are.


Nevermind. From Sledgeweb :

It looks like the first part of the number is the hour, and the second part is the minute. The numbers are 108 minutes apart.



Spoiler



Yes, I quoted myself


----------



## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Does anyone else think we should have seperate threads for the webstuff and the episode?


Yes.


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Oh hamburgers! 

Does it count as a smeek if the timestamp is the same?


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Artfreak said:


> That link for www.sublymonal.com....
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



"Heir Apparent" is case sensitive.


----------



## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Does anybody else think we should have seperate threads for the webstuff and the episode? While I LOVE lost, I just have zero interest in this extra web stuff....I prefer to just have it unfold on TV for me.


I second that remark. While I appreciate the extra stuff, I don't have enough time in the day to do all these games, websites, etc. I just watch the show and love it.


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Does anybody else think we should have seperate threads for the webstuff and the episode? While I LOVE lost, I just have zero interest in this extra web stuff....I prefer to just have it unfold on TV for me.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=298400


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Philly Bill said:


> So how many 'hatches' are there? The orientation film at Pearl said (5 of 6)...
> 
> The Losties Hatch (The Swan - Station 3)
> The Tailies Hatch (The Arrow?)
> ...


The medical bunker from Claire's episode was called "The Staff." We also haven't seen "The Flame" which is between the The Swan and The Staff (but I still think the map says "The Neptune" instead of the "The Flame" which would mean it's the hatch to control the shark.)

I noticed Libby breathing too.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

scheckeNYK said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=298400


so then why aren't people using it here?


----------



## mightyb (Dec 5, 2003)

pmyers said:


> so then why aren't people using it here?


AGREED....

it's hard to keep up on a regular TV LOST thread!!!


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

scottykempf said:


> I second that remark. While I appreciate the extra stuff, I don't have enough time in the day to do all these games, websites, etc. I just watch the show and love it.


For those that are interested in what is going on, but don't want to spend the time trying to figure out the clues themselves, there is a great summary of everything that has happend so far:

The Lost Experience - Week 1 Complete Summary

Here are some of the clue sites I have been reading (instead of working )...

http://www.thelostexperience.com/
http://thelostexperienceclues.blogspot.com/
http://jayandjack.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Lost_Experience


----------



## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Chibbie said:


> Nevermind. From Sledgeweb :
> 
> It looks like the first part of the number is the hour, and the second part is the minute. The numbers are 108 minutes apart.
> 
> ...


I must be an idiot, because I still don't get it. So, is it 4:16? What am I missing?


----------



## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

My recording (Comcast DVR) ended at 1:01. Fortunately, we record Invasion, so we were able to watch the rest of Lost, which took 4 more minutes! Otherwise, I would have been mighty pissed .

It is funny how Libby did survive, just to die hours later, without really revealing anything important.

I was also bugged by the day/night inconsistencies. With all the complicated things that they have to keep in order, why cant get something this simple right?


----------



## BoulderGeek (Mar 18, 2002)

While sometimes it is fun to reinvent the wheel, perhaps you folks might want to join in with the action already happening at http://thefuselage.com. All of this and more has been there since the game started.

Damon Lindelof has stated that the legal incursions of the two acresses in real life had nothing to do with the fates of their respective characters.

Cynthia Watros is a hottie, but was far cuter with short hair in "Titus."

Awesome episode. Michael is turning into Not Henry with that evil sideways gaze.

If you see the photo stills of the map that Locke saw on the back of the blast door in invisible (UV reactive) ink, you can see other hatch/bunkers with the arrow, the Swan, the Cadeuceus, a Flame, the Shark, the ? (Pearl) etc.

I'm not ready for the series to be over for the summer! I just bought a 42" LCD, as well!


----------



## dba62 (Sep 2, 2005)

7thton said:


> I must be an idiot, because I still don't get it. So, is it 4:16? What am I missing?


4160217:05

Is 4160217 hours and 5 minutes.

4160217 hours is about 475 years. Not sure why a counter would have that value.


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

More interestingly about the log, can Lock backtrack on it and see if Henry Gale really DID push the button or not?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> BTW: In the "Swan" video, he's "Dr. Marvin Candle". In the "Pearl" video, he's "Dr. Mark Wickman" (or, perhaps, Whittman).


Maybe it's his "Bad Twin."


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

What evidence is there that what see on the monitors is literally being recorded? They may have said it and I missed it I guess. I thought the point was that the people who are in the monitoring station are supposed to write everything down and that is how things are recorded.

Even though I continue to feel manipulated and jerked around in terms of the mystery, I did like this episode a lot more than last week's. Maybe because I find Eko and John interesting. I thought for sure Libby was going to "come back from the dead".


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> What evidence is there that what see on the monitors is literally being recorded? They may have said it and I missed it I guess. I thought the point was that the people who are in the monitoring station are supposed to write everything down and that is how things are recorded...


I'm not sure why, or if, anybody thinks it is being recorded....


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

They said "recorded", but I believe they meant that the workers must record what they see in the notebooks.


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

dba62 said:


> I think it is the time in hours:minutes.
> 
> 4160217:05 to 4160218:53 (guessing on the 3) is 1:48 minute difference or 108 minutes.


(I started my response before I read this next response, but I continue further, so it's only a semi-smeek.)


dba62 said:


> 4160217:05
> 
> Is 4160217 hours and 5 minutes.
> 
> 4160217 hours is about 475 years. Not sure why a counter would have that value.


Just looking at the 4160217 portion of it, if the "17" is the hour, how can we break out the rest of it?

4160217 hours = 475 years, so I don't think that's it.

41602 days = 114 years, I doubt that's right as well, so "02" could be a day counter

Couldn't be the 16th month, there are only 12. That might make it the 416th month? 34 years? Perhaps.

Or would Julian dates help? I don't know.

EDIT: just saw this screencap of the printout, and it breaks the logic. The 'hours' counter has 41602068:29 as an entry, so '68' as hours makes no sense either. It has to be total hours. So what happened in the year 1531 AD?


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

TR7spyder said:


> It is funny how Libby did survive, just to die hours later, without really revealing anything important.


Except perhaps to make Michael act suspiciously, and perhaps Jack or Hurley might make a connection next week on that. Or Libby will show up in Hurley's dreams next week.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I'm not sure why, or if, anybody thinks it is being recorded....


Some people clearly do, because they mentioned "rewinding" to see what really happened with Michael.


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

devlindark said:


> In the end another Great Episode though I don't get Echo's now vested interest in pushing the button or what work he thinks he will be doing - unless it's just having faith in something I guess


Don't forget that his brother told him in his dream that the work being done on the island was the most important thing in the world, and Eco doesn't seem to question his dreams at all. That's enough reason for him.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

It's reasonable to think that there _may _ be recorded footage of the hatch in the surveillance bunker.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

hefe said:


> It's reasonable to think that there _may _ be recorded footage of the hatch in the surveillance bunker.


There IS a vcr there, so there is a good shot

Maybe that's why they have a vcr and not a projecter!!!


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> There IS a vcr there, so there is a good shot
> 
> Maybe that's why they have a vcr and not a projecter!!!


The VCR that they put the (UMatic 3/4") tape into was empty (no tape in it) when they arrived. So, unless there's *another VCR* set to record continuously on a loop, Michael's acts weren't recorded (at least in the Pearl hatch).

Also, IIRC, the maximum recording time for UMatic is 2 hours, so if one UMatic recorder were recording on a loop, it's probably recorded over the footage that would nail Michael already.

Of course, if there was a UMatic recorder recording in stop-frame mode, say 1 frame per second, or perhaps a bank of UMatics to get more than 2 hours, they might have the evidence.

Or, since the Swan hatch clearly got an upgrade to its washer and dryer within the last year or two, perhaps the Pearl hatch got a DVR at about the same time.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Yeah there may be, but there may not be. Nothing indicated that there was, which was really what my confusion was over. I thought I just wasn't paying enough attention.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> Or, since the Swan hatch clearly got an upgrade to it's washer and dryer within the last year or two, perhaps the pearl hatch got a DVR at about the same time.


Let's hope it's not a series two and deactivates after a certain # of days w/o calling in!


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I'm not sure what to make of the psychic claiming he was a fraud. Was he serious, or just making up a reason to end the church's investigation? I'll have to go back and watch "Raised By Another" again, but I seem to recall that he seemed desperate to convince Claire, and I vaguely recall he even gave her her money back. What could his motive possibly have been to convince her, if he wasn't sure about his premonition regarding Aaron? If he was scamming people, I would assume it would be just for money. If he was scamming Claire, it would have to be some seriously convoluted plot. It'll be interesting to see where/if they take this.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I think we will find out about the psychic eventually, that he was so freaked out by having a genuine psychic experience that he didn't know what to do at first.

Or, a family paid him to trick claire to going to LA. Thus why he wouldn't need the money from claire so much and could use it to manipulate her by giving it back.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ok.. While at lunch today, I came up with a masterpiece.. Typing it out really won't do it justice - use your imaginations.

I give you, the greatest song ever conceived - my Lost theme song (unfinished).

(drum-roll tapping hands on table)

LOST

They're on an island..

LOST

..or maybe they're not.. they're

(drumming again)
LOST

There's lots of people..

lost lost Lost Lost LOST!!!

(the rest is subject to rewrite)

DHA-rma's running the show.. there's
LOTS of psy-cho-lo-gy and 
LOTS of ex-per-i-ments.. they're

lost lost Lost Lost LOST!!!

(jkeegan takes a bow)


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

It's no "The X-files is a show ... with music by Mark Snow ..."


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> I'm not sure what to make of the psychic claiming he was a fraud. Was he serious, or just making up a reason to end the church's investigation? I'll have to go back and watch "Raised By Another" again, but I seem to recall that he seemed desperate to convince Claire, and I vaguely recall he even gave her her money back. What could his motive possibly have been to convince her, if he wasn't sure about his premonition regarding Aaron? If he was scamming people, I would assume it would be just for money. If he was scamming Claire, it would have to be some seriously convoluted plot. It'll be interesting to see where/if they take this.


I can see two possibilities:

1) The psychic is real. He's not a fraud. But he had a motive to make the Church abort the miracle investigation. In this scenario, he *did see something* about Claire's baby that scared him. Scared him so badly, in fact, that he used his own money to buy Claire a ticket and give her spending cash for her trip.

2) The psychic is a fraud, *but he works for Dharma*. In this scenario, he used his "role" as a psychic to get Claire on the plane because _Dharma knew about her and wanted her and/or her baby before she ever got to the island!_

EDIT to add: Scenario #2, of course, supposes that Dharma caused the crash!


----------



## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

thenightfly42 said:


> (I started my response before I read this next response, but I continue further, so it's only a semi-smeek.)
> 
> Just looking at the 4160217 portion of it, if the "17" is the hour, how can we break out the rest of it?
> 
> ...


Divide 4160217 by 24 hours, (in a day) and you get 6675.7083. Divide that by 365 days, (in a year), and you get 18.28 years. Possibl the leading '4' is an identifier of sine kind.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> The VCR that they put the (UMatic 3/4") tape into was empty (no tape in it) when they arrived. So, unless there's *another VCR* set to record continuously on a loop, Michael's acts weren't recorded (at least in the Pearl hatch).
> 
> Also, IIRC, the maximum recording time for UMatic is 2 hours, so if one UMatic recorder were recording on a loop, it's probably recorded over the footage that would nail Michael already.
> 
> ...


I'm just thinking that there may yet be some more stuff to find "behind the curtain." We know that there are cameras (or at least one) pointed at the people in the hatch. Somebody, somewhere, may have watched/recorded what happened.

The "others" know a lot about our Losties. Stuff you could maybe learn by spying on them with surveillance cameras.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> I think we will find out about the psychic eventually, that he was so freaked out by having a genuine psychic experience that he didn't know what to do at first.


Interesting idea.

So, to add possibility #3 to my scenarios above:

3) The psychic is (was) a fraud, but in Claire's case had a genuine psychic experience for the first time in his life. At first it freaked him out terribly. That is why he sent Claire away and gave her money back. Then, after collecting his thoughts and clarifying what he had "seen", he was motivated to act, to get Claire on the plane.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> The "others" know a lot about our Losties. Stuff you could maybe learn by spying on them with surveillance cameras.


Agreed, whole heartedly.

My take on Michael is that he is working 100% for the others. Either they have made a deal with him, (I. e: "Free Henry and lead Jack into an ambush and we'll give you Walt back."), or they have simply utterly brainwashed him.

Note that you can infer from the above that I think he *freed* Henry. He didn't harm him.

If this is the case, and some "other" is watching, I'd have to assume they're pleased with his performance!


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> Or, since the Swan hatch clearly got an upgrade to its washer and dryer within the last year or two, perhaps the Pearl hatch got a DVR at about the same time.


But seriously, you would think if they were to upgrade anything, it would be the computers/data storage stuff.

i guess it would depend on when the experiment was abandoned, if it was abandoned at all.

is there a consensus on if the experiment is still going on, or if hanso foundation stopped it and forgot to tell these people?

As far as the input log with the "475 years worth of data", it is interesting that the input log times are 108 minutes on the minute. The button was not pushed on the 108th minute, always before... so I guess as long as the button was pushed, it was recorded as pushed on the 108th minute.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> i guess it would depend on when the experiment was abandoned, if it was abandoned at all.
> 
> is there a consensus on if the experiment is still going on, or if hanso foundation stopped it and forgot to tell these people?


_Something_ is still going on.

Our losties just got a delivery of "Dharma brand" food and supplies! 

My guess is that the Dharma inititive started out as, probably, a perfectly noble experiment of some sort, but over the years became corrupted and perhaps, malevolent.

Maybe the "sickness" has something to do with the corruption of the Dharma experiment. It could be either the cause or an effect of the "corruption".


----------



## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Isn't a "Pearl" caused by a reaction to an irritant?

After all that climbing up and down, I bet Eko and Locke are all nacred!


----------



## twincaminferno (Mar 6, 2006)

stevieleej said:


> I was supprised while Eko was climbing the cliff, Locke didn't say, "by the way, in my dream, you fell from the top of the cliff."


I was saying the same thing. That Locke and telling other people stuff...


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

bruinfan said:


> is there a consensus on if the experiment is still going on, or if hanso foundation stopped it and forgot to tell these people?


Wait, i guess it's a bad question...

Is there a consensus on anything?? that would be a big fat NO.

she didn't cheat


----------



## dadx2 (Oct 14, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> _Something_ is still going on.
> 
> Our losties just got a delivery of "Dharma brand" food and supplies!
> 
> ...


why isn't there food dropped off at all of the bunkers?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Interesting idea.
> 
> So, to add possibility #3 to my scenarios above:
> 
> 3) The psychic is (was) a fraud, but in Claire's case had a genuine psychic experience for the first time in his life. At first it freaked him out terribly. That is why he sent Claire away and gave her money back. Then, after collecting his thoughts and clarifying what he had "seen", he was motivated to act, to get Claire on the plane.


Geez, dude. You just posted what I was going to post.

Isn't that how it was with Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost? She was a fraud but suddenly she saw Patrick Swayze.

Greg


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Fleegle said:


> Divide 4160217 by 24 hours, (in a day) and you get 6675.7083. Divide that by 365 days, (in a year), and you get 18.28 years. Possibl the leading '4' is an identifier of sine kind.


Your math is _*way *_ off for 4160217, you must have been using the number without the four.

Here is a better screenshot:










From the screenshot, lets use 41602072:05.

41602072 / 24 hrs = 1733419.67 Days / 365.25 days = 4745.84 years
1602072 / 24 hrs = 66753 Days / 365.25 days = 182.76 years
602072 / 24 hrs = 25086.3 Days / 365.25 days = 86.68 years
2072 / 24 hrs = 86.3 Days

The :05 part is the minutes. Add 108 minutes to :05 = :113 - 60 (and add one to hours) = 41602073:53 (the next number on the printout.)

4745 Years is too big of a number to be accurate. The 4 and the 16 might be prefixes, or it could have started at some arbitrary number.


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Could Whoopi be Michael's mother?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

When I saw the numbers I immediately ruled the 4 and 16 out as part of "the numbers".. (the number is on the hatch - it makes sense that they might be part of the identification code for that hatch).

Why those two though, dunno. But that was my first instinct - chop off the 416 and look at the rest.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Actually, in his dream they were in "The Hatch" where they press the button, and his brother said "the work being done *here* is very important"


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

dadx2 said:


> why isn't there food dropped off at all of the bunkers?


1) Because they know where it's needed.

2) Who's to say a drop wasn't made at, at least, some of the other bunkers? (Assuming some of the others are still manned.) Just because our "losties" didn't find other drops doesn't mean they don't exist.

The "others" are clearly part of the overall equation too. Either they are Dharma participants who are fully aware of what's going on, or perhaps they, like our "losties" are largely in the dark as to the "big plan". In either case, they're obviously being "supplied" too. They've got "Dharma brand" theatrical makeup, for instance!


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> Yeah there may be, but there may not be. Nothing indicated that there was, which was really what my confusion was over. I thought I just wasn't paying enough attention.


Actually, I believe the Orientation Video did mention something about recording. Now whether that meant recording the video feed or recording the happenings into the journals remains a question.

My theory is that part of the experiement was leading someone from The Swan hatch to The Pearl...the map on the blast doors was planted for someone to eventually find and lead them on the journey to the ?

Once in The Pearl hatch, another Orientation Video is found pretty much saying everything going on is a big fat joke.

The experiment then becomes...will they still continue to push the button or not???


----------



## mojomom (Oct 6, 2005)

Thoughts after reading this far:

In scanning the thread, I didn't see anyone point out the fact that in Eko's flashback we actually saw Libby in the airport in Sydney. I had still suspected her as an Other. If she was, she must have been an Hanso/Dharma insider who was on the airplane. I doubt this though. She's definitely a weird character (with the Hurley connection) but I no longer think I know what is going on with her.

I wouldn't be too shocked if Libby came back to life. Does anyone really stay dead on this Island?

Does anyone else wonder if the miracle un-drowned girl was Jack's long-lost Australian sister? Maybe her Mom was the wrong actress to be the same woman Jack's Dad confronted. I didn't get a good look at her in that scene.

Mr. Eko's brother gave me the creeps in the flashbacks. I have a sense that perhaps Walt is destined to be his "heir apparent" somehow.

Don't know where else the Pearl hatch leads, but its top entrance was sealed pretty securely with the plane crashed on top.

In the long run I can't help keep myself on guard for a Wizard of Oz type explanation of the whole thing ("Henry Gale?"). Oz managed to pull of an "it was only a dream" ending without blowing the whole experience for the audience. I don't think it will end exactly this way, but I keep wondering if it wil turn out that all this was flashing through Jack's head as the plane was crashing, and the plane hasn't really crashed yet. I can't imagine a real-world ending that can possibly tie all this up in a satisfying way.

Hope that's enough food for thought to finally get someone to reply to one of my posts!!


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> Interesting idea.
> 
> So, to add possibility #3 to my scenarios above:
> 
> 3) The psychic is (was) a fraud, but in Claire's case had a genuine psychic experience for the first time in his life. At first it freaked him out terribly. That is why he sent Claire away and gave her money back. Then, after collecting his thoughts and clarifying what he had "seen", he was motivated to act, to get Claire on the plane.


From post 83 (mine):

"It must be that he's like Whoopie Goldberg in Ghost. He's a fraud, but then he has a genuine psychic experience; that rocks his world and he is compelled to 'help.' "


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Fleegle said:


> Divide 4160217 by 24 hours, (in a day) and you get 6675.7083. Divide that by 365 days, (in a year), and you get 18.28 years. Possibl the leading '4' is an identifier of sine kind.


I simply think the "4" indicates station #4 (doesn't the orientation tape say #4 of 6???). Then the number of hours adds up to 18+ years. Isn't it the same amount of time Rousseau's message has been broadcast?


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Maybe the 4 indicates the number of limbs on a human being and 16 refers to the number of human limbs required to change a light bulb in a hatch.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Maybe 4 is the number of pieces of the plane (we know of 3) and 16 is the number of people who have to get killed before the remaining Losties decide that hiding information is counterproductive and lethal.

j/k


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Maybe the producers put lots of stuff for us to overanalyze (in our own SWAN hatch), while they sit back, read the message boards, and laugh themselves silly (in their own PEARL hatch)! The whole show is a metaphor about what they are doing to US!


----------



## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Is it possible the writers are making everything up on the fly, deeming all speculation irrelevant? IOW, the writers don't know what will happen either!


----------



## dba62 (Sep 2, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> I simply think the "4" indicates station #4 (doesn't the orientation tape say #4 of 6???). Then the number of hours adds up to 18+ years. Isn't it the same amount of time Rousseau's message has been broadcast?


Fleegle's calculations were wrong (originally I wrote down the wrong number, which I believe he based his calculations on).

The correct calculations were derived by someone else and are shown below:

41602072 / 24 hrs = 1733419.67 Days / 365.25 days = 4745.84 years
1602072 / 24 hrs = 66753 Days / 365.25 days = 182.76 years
602072 / 24 hrs = 25086.3 Days / 365.25 days = 86.68 years

I'll add that 2072 hours is 86.3 days.

None of these values seems very helpful. Perhaps there is another decoding that makes more sense.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I was thinking that the fake psychic's vision of Claire's baby probably came from the daughter and he's still a fake.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

mojomom said:


> I wouldn't be too shocked if Libby came back to life. Does anyone really stay dead on this Island?


So far Boone and Shannon have both stayed dead, but who knows what will happen next!

Mask -- That is deep, man. So we have to have at least one post every 108 minutes, or . . .


----------



## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

mojomom said:


> Hope that's enough food for thought to finally get someone to reply to one of my posts!!


Nah, not enough.


----------



## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

stevieleej said:


> I was supprised while Eko was climbing the cliff, Locke didn't say, "by the way, in my dream, you fell from the top of the cliff."


Locke WAS Eko in the dream, so it was Locke falling off the cliff from having the crap scared out of him.


----------



## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

mojomom said:


> Hope that's enough food for thought to finally get someone to reply to one of my posts!!


OK I'll reply......but just to tell you that I like your nickname!


----------



## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

Charon2 said:


> Regarding Libby
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


According to a reliable spoiler site:


Spoiler



In the season finale, in flashback that is set in 2000 in L.A., Libby buys Desmond coffee


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

darthrsg said:


> Locke WAS Eko in the dream, so it was Locke falling off the cliff from having the crap scared out of him.


And did you notice in Locke's dream that Eko was limping and Yemmy was in a wheelchair at the end of the dream?

Wasn't the plane over the "?" hatch the same one that Eko torched when he and Charlie went hunting for heroin?


----------



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

getreal said:


> Wasn't the plane over the "?" hatch the same one that Eko torched when he and Charlie went hunting for heroin?


Yep

It would have been interesting if there had been some others still in the hatch because they could not escape due to the plane in the way.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> Maybe the producers put lots of stuff for us to overanalyze (in our own SWAN hatch), while they sit back, read the message boards, and laugh themselves silly (in their own PEARL hatch)! The whole show is a metaphor about what they are doing to US!





mqpickles said:


> Mask -- That is deep, man. So we have to have at least one post every 108 minutes, or . . .


Dudes!


----------



## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

Regarding the printout of the log.

I didn't see this mentioned.

If you look at the numbers for each :NN, there is a series that is just incrementing by 9.

For example, look at the :17. It starts goes 52, 61, 70, 79, 88. All of the numbers for a particular :NN do this.

I have no idea what it means, but I thought it was interesting. I think everyone is trying to figure out what they mean, but it may just be some kind of counter that has nothing to do with our hatch numbers. This could be some kind of heartbeat from something else.

I took these from the screen shot of the printout in this thread.

41602052:17 41602054:05 41602055:53
41602057:41 41602059:29
41602061:17 41602063:05 41602064:53
41602066:41 41602068:29
41602070:17 41602072:05 41602073:53
41602075:41 41602077:29
41602079:17 41602081:05 41602082:53
41602084:41 41602086:29 
41602088:17 41602090:05

Bryan


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

That's just adding 108 minutes (or 1 hour 48 minutes or 1:48).

Assume hour:minutes

...52:17 + 1:48 = 54:05
...54:05 + 1:48 = 55:53
...55:53 + 1:48 = 57:41
...57:41 + 1:48 = 59:29

...and so on.


----------



## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

Thanks - I saw the 148 pattern but didn't make the connection to 108 minutes from 1 hour and 48 minutes.


----------



## Gene S (Feb 11, 2003)

This show is starting to lose me. I feel I need Cliff notes to watch an episode.
What happened to the islands security? The black nano/smoke thingy? There are people hiking all over the island, entering new hatches, and no "smoke/t-rex/tree up-rooting thing-a-ma-bob" stopping them.


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

How the heck would someone stay in the Pearl for 3 weeks? It looked like just that one room to me.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

That's gotta be a record... 209 posts for someone to hate on the show.


----------



## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

Assuming we take the 416 off as they are part of the numbers....

Then we have...

02052:17 02054:05 02055:53
02057:41 02059:29

etc..etc...

We know that the counters seem to be every 108 minutes. So if you do the math.....

2059 hours / 24 hours in a day..... = ~85 days.

How many days has it been since the losties have been on the island?


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

A couple questions--How did Echo, the priest get to austrailia from Nigeria? And how could he impersonate his brother who looks nothing like him? He seemed to have a position of more responsibility than just a local priest, so wouldn't he have run into people who knew his brother from his seminary days? 
Also, the first time when Locke and Boone were at that place, didn't Locke lose his healing and become unable to walk? I thought we speculated that he was too close or too far from the magnetism or something. This time while he still limped, he could walk as well as when he got there.
And what were the papers Echo gathered up and took back? It wasn't the print-out of the numbers was it?


----------



## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

mojomom said:


> Thoughts after reading this far:
> 
> In scanning the thread, I didn't see anyone point out the fact that in Eko's flashback we actually saw Libby in the airport in Sydney. I had still suspected her as an Other. If she was, she must have been an Hanso/Dharma insider who was on the airplane. I doubt this though. She's definitely a weird character (with the Hurley connection) but I no longer think I know what is going on with her.


Yea, I meantioned it in post 42....



> Also, anyone else notice Libby's physco B look when she interupted Eko in his last flashback?


----------



## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

I may have missed it so if it has been mentioned before, sorry, but I thought Sawyer hiding the guns in his tent was rather, um, "Sawyer" of him. Since he always went into the jungle to get anything, it was a predictable, but clever bit of misdirection. He was stumbling with his reply to Kate's question about how AL stole his gun though.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the unusual day/night times were put in deliberately. This isn't the first time Lost has done this time compression thing. It's intentional, and it has a reason, though I can't imagine what that reason might be--yet!


----------



## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> How the heck would someone stay in the Pearl for 3 weeks? It looked like just that one room to me.


I thought the tape said something about a 8 hour shift?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

danieljanderson said:


> I thought the tape said something about a 8 hour shift?


It said they would be there for 3 weeks and that they (there are 2 people) would work in 8 hour shifts.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Food drops: there is no need to drop food at the Pearl hatch. After their 8-hour shift, they went back to what sounded through the garble like a "barracks" (as already mentioned). The sites with people probably get food.

The Mystery Counter: here's a theory for you. It rolls over. Eliminate the "416" part as clutter - station ID, lucky number whatever. What's left is potential counter that goes as high as 99,999 hours. If it rolled over twice, plus you add in the current number of 2200, you get just over 202,000 hours. That's 23 years. *Assuming* it's still 2004, that puts the start of the counter cycle back to 1981.

Of course, there could have been more cycles, but the next one back would go to 1970.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I'm a bit mystified as why people think there are time and day/night issues. To me, it's perfectly clear. It's Eko's original dream that probably throws everyone off.

Night: Eko wakes from dream.
Night: Jack, Locke and Kate get back to the hatch.
(quick side note: is this the first time we've ever seen the outside of the Swan hatch?)
Night: Eko and Locke leave.
Still Night: They find the plane and cliff, stop for rest of night.

Morning: Eko and Locke go up cliff, though one for real and one imaginary.
Day: Jack has finished surgery on wounds. Sends Kate with Sawyer to get heroin.
Late Afternoon: Eko and Locke make their way back to the hatch.

Did I miss anything?


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> (quick side note: is this the first time we've ever seen the outside of the Swan hatch?)


To answer this one, no.

We've seen the "front door" (assuming the hatch that Locke undug was the "back door"), at least three times before.

Once was right after Desmond directed Jack to it, and ran out of it.

Another was when Hurley showed Rose where the hatch was.

Another was when Sawyer woke up from his gunshot infection induced fever/delirium and Kate took him outside (and they saw the black horse).


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> Actually, I believe the Orientation Video did mention something about recording. Now whether that meant recording the video feed or recording the happenings into the journals remains a question.
> 
> My theory is that part of the experiment was leading someone from The Swan hatch to The Pearl...the map on the blast doors was planted for someone to eventually find and lead them on the journey to the ?
> 
> ...


I like that a lot.

I wonder if it's rigged so that after a near-miss (like Locke had with the hieroglyphics) causes (after a few days) the lockdown they had.. So that way, when someone was clearly wavering in their belief such that they let it get that far, they wait a bit, then send them the hint that there's more out there (the map), and then they finally see the hint that it's all been fake.. That way they're not testing them when they're in strong initial belief mode, but when they're already on-the-edge.


----------



## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> I'm a bit mystified as why people think there are time and day/night issues. To me, it's perfectly clear. It's Eko's original dream that probably throws everyone off.
> 
> Night: Eko wakes from dream.
> Night: Jack, Locke and Kate get back to the hatch.
> ...


No, I just watched it again to be sure and you did not miss anything.

I'll admit, though, that I was confused initially as well. Two reasons for this:

1) Eko's dream, while actually occuring at night, depicts a scene in broad daylight.
2) The hatch's artificial lighting. There are numerous shots of Michael and Libby where you can see plenty of light coming from behind them. It's easy, perhaps, to forget there's artificial lighting and assume instead that it's daytime.


----------



## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

I'm also one to believe that it's not the people in the swan hatch that are being experimented on, it's the people in the pearl hatch.

In other words, it would be entirely too simple to set people up to see if they'd enter a code over and over. But what would _really_ be neat would be to see how other people, people who _think_ they are "in the know" react to seeing other people enter a code over and over. It's not that they wanted the pearl people to document their findings as a way to document the findings of the "experiment", but rather to be part of the experiment itself.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Yeah Fish Man, I did mean the "front door". Thanks. I'll just say it was the dark that threw me off.


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

Fish Man said:


> Several observations:
> 
> 2) The psychic, who turns out to be the "miracle" girl's father, is adamant that there is no miracle, and adamant that he is a fraud. However, when the girl finds Eko at the airport, she has clearly seen Eko's brother during her "near death" experience, making the "miracle" plausible again. As has been stated, the psychic seemed pretty genuine when he became so fearful of Claire's baby. So, is he a fraud or isn't he? If he's a fraud, is he working for Darhma?


Maybe the Psychic actually is a psychic and only pretended to be a fraud in order to let Eko go fullfill his duty on the island. If he is a psychic and/or is involved with the Dharma project then he knew that Mr. Eko needed to be on the flight. He said the miracle was a fraud so Eko could leave and wouldn't have to be involved in an investigation.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Delta13 said:


> I'm a bit mystified as why people think there are time and day/night issues. To me, it's perfectly clear. It's Eko's original dream that probably throws everyone off.
> 
> Night: Eko wakes from dream.
> Night: Jack, Locke and Kate get back to the hatch.
> ...


But when last weeks ep. ended, it was light out and then Michael said it had been about 20 minutes since the incident. Did it get that dark in 20 minutes? Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly.


----------



## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> But when last weeks ep. ended, it was light out and then Michael said it had been about 20 minutes since the incident. Did it get that dark in 20 minutes? Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly.


Michael had said it was 20 minutes, maybe 30. I took the sudden darkness to indicate that he's lying about the timeframe, not that there are continuity problems in the show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

niea_7 said:


> Michael had said it was 20 minutes, maybe 30. I took the sudden darkness to indicate that he's lying about the timeframe, not that there are continuity problems in the show.


Except that Libby left Hurley to go get blankets in broad daylight. She apparently went to the hatch and was shot. Are we to believe that Hurley just sat around overnight waiting for her and didn't bother to go looking for her and didn't ask anyone about her until he saw Sawyer and Kate the next day? I just don't buy that. I think there were definitely day/night continuity problems.


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## kdonnel (Nov 28, 2000)

cherry ghost said:


> Did it get that dark in 20 minutes?


I would imagine that in a jungle with no artificial lighting it would get very dark very fast.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I have to disagree, not broad daylight. At the end of "Two For The Road", both the Libby/Hurley and the Jack/Sawyer exchanges clearly happen while it's darker, probably towards late afternoon. It is definitely not noon.

I sense a struggle between science ("continuity") and faith ("looks good to me") growing here ... perhaps as it should be. No one has touched on the subject yet.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Well, the question is, how long does it take to travel btwn the beach and bunker? 

Jack et.al. v Sawyer did happen in the late afternoon. And Sawyer, when Jack told Sawyer to get the heroin, he said he would be back in 20 min. So one way, less than 10 min if you factor in the retrieving of the actual heroin. So can it get dark in less than 10 min, like middle of the night dark like when the episode started?

probably not.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Sorry, but they keep saying "Press the button" not "Punch in The Magic Numbers on the keyboard and THEN press the execute button." Minor symantics


New to Lost threads? This was debated - if you can call it that - over the course of a few threads early on in this season.

The use of the phrase _push the button_ is widely seen as a nod - by the writers - to the 'lab rat' nature of the Swan station. Without trying to extrapolate too much - always a danger with _Lost_ - the events of this episode seem to cement that underlying notion.



Fish Man said:


> 1) The psychic is real. He's not a fraud. But he had a motive to make the Church abort the miracle investigation. In this scenario, he *did see something* about Claire's baby that scared him. Scared him so badly, in fact, that he used his own money to buy Claire a ticket and give her spending cash for her trip.


This is certainly how I took it. And, honestly, this was one of the few pre-Island connections that didn't feel contrived to me.


----------



## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

The day/night thing really bothered me too. To get to and from the caves took quite a bit of time (i think it was mentioned in one of the episodes to be an hour or more hike) and I was under the impression that that hatch was a good ways into the woods as well.

Even if it did only take 20 minutes (10 minute round trip) it went from light (when jack was pointing the gun at sawyer) to dark (michael stumbling out of the hatch) to light (kate and sawyer back at the beach telling hurley about libby) so 10 minutes each way means in 30 minutes it went from light to dark to light again.


----------



## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

I doubt this has any significance, and maybe it was posted in other threads, but I thought it was interesting that 108 minutes is also 1.8 hours. ???


----------



## rlc1 (Sep 15, 2003)

skanter said:


> Is it possible the writers are making everything up on the fly, deeming all speculation irrelevant? IOW, the writers don't know what will happen either!


I think this could be the case. Ever watch the X-Files? Big series finale disappointment.

I really hope this doesn't happen with Lost.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I like this show...period.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

On the Official Lost Podcast, JJ Abrams stated that this season's finale is the "most incredible TV I have ever seen filmed" (or something to that effect).

How's that for hype?


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> A couple questions--How did Echo, the priest get to austrailia from Nigeria? And how could he impersonate his brother who looks nothing like him? He seemed to have a position of more responsibility than just a local priest, so wouldn't he have run into people who knew his brother from his seminary days?
> Also, the first time when Locke and Boone were at that place, didn't Locke lose his healing and become unable to walk? I thought we speculated that he was too close or too far from the magnetism or something. This time while he still limped, he could walk as well as when he got there.
> And what were the papers Echo gathered up and took back? It wasn't the print-out of the numbers was it?


Eko is not impersonating his brother. When he was a druglord in Nigeria, Eko and his partner forced his brother to use his credentials to get them out of the country with the cargo load full of heroin filled Virgin Mary statues. He was masquerading as a priest when his partner betrayed him and took off, and his brother got shot in the process. The Nigerian troops thought Eko was the priest who had called in the tip, when it was really his brother, and it looked like they let him go without checking any credentials. It is to be assumed that after this point, he really became a priest because he was penitent for causing his brother's death. He must've then gone to Australia to preach in that church.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

bruinfan said:


> Well, the question is, how long does it take to travel btwn the beach and bunker?


When Jack asked Sawyer to get the heroin, Sawyer said, "Give me 20 minutes."

I, too, thought the day/night issue was just a matter of it taking a good while to get from the beach to the hatch. But if Sawyer says he can walk back to the beach and back with the heroin in 20 minutes, that must mean it only takes about 10 minutes to get from the beach to the hatch...that wouldn't be far at all.

And then there's the issue with Hurley. Libby clearly left to get the blankets while the sun was still up (whether it was mid day or almost night) a whole night obviously passes and when Hurley asks Sawyer and Kate about Libby its at the very least late morning. Why wouldn't have Hurley visited the hatch before then to see if Libby had made it back there to get the blankets?


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## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

I don't believe that the sole purpose of the Swan bunker is an experiment about pushing a button. I also doubt the Pearl bunker is an experiment to see how people watch others pushing a button. Plenty of research has been done along those lines already.

There's something much more involved going on; we just don't know what it is yet. Hanso spent a fortune building an elaborate chain of "laboratories" on an island so there's got to be something going on to justify it all.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

durl said:


> There's something much more involved going on; we just don't know what it is yet. Hanso spent a fortune building an elaborate chain of "laboratories" on an island so there's got to be something going on to justify it all.


Exactly. There would be no need for a huge electro-magnet if it was just an psychological experiment.

Hanso was involved in a lot of testing. Remember the hidden voices early on (whatever happened to them anyways? I don't recall hearing them lately)?

Maybe each hatch isn't told what the other hatch does. So the Pearl bunker is told that the whole thing is a test, when in fact it really isn't.


----------



## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

mask2343 said:


> On the Official Lost Podcast, JJ Abrams stated that this season's finale is the "most incredible TV I have ever seen filmed" (or something to that effect).
> 
> How's that for hype?


didn't they also say that we would see more of the security system/monster?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

ethos42 said:


> didn't they also say that we would see more of the security system/monster?


I don't recall that, but one thing they have said in the past that by the end of the season,


Spoiler



we will know what made the plane crash.


----------



## niea_7 (Nov 5, 2003)

durl said:


> I don't believe that the sole purpose of the Swan bunker is an experiment about pushing a button. I also doubt the Pearl bunker is an experiment to see how people watch others pushing a button. Plenty of research has been done along those lines already.
> 
> There's something much more involved going on; we just don't know what it is yet. Hanso spent a fortune building an elaborate chain of "laboratories" on an island so there's got to be something going on to justify it all.


I didn't mean to imply that the pschycological experiement was the _only_ experiment. In fact, I think it's an extremely small piece of the puzzle. On top of that, I do not think the experiment is _only_ about entering the code, rather that entering the code is only a small part of what's happeneing.

So I completely agree that this extremely elaborate setup is indicative of something far greater. I still maintain, however, that there's someone watching the the residents of the Pearl hatch and that they are part of the experiment(s).


----------



## Hemi (Jan 9, 2002)

Wouldn't you be curious as to where the vacuum tube went to and try and follow it? I bet that it ends up in a bunker controlled by the Others and by Locke using it (to send a map no less) the Others now know that the Pearl has been found.

Bummer for Libby though.

Dan


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> I wonder if it's rigged so that after a near-miss (like Locke had with the hieroglyphics) causes (after a few days) the lockdown they had.. So that way, when someone was clearly wavering in their belief such that they let it get that far, they wait a bit, then send them the hint that there's more out there (the map)...


Here's another one to wrap our minds around ...

What if the map Locke saw on the blast doors was originally drawn by .... _LOCKE?_
Couldn't one of the Dharma projects be time-shifting, like in their expts. with the 105 yr. old Orangutan? Or if not actual jumping around in time, they could cause someone to forget chunks of time -- so that things could be like déja-vu all over again!


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

getreal said:


> Here's another one to wrap our minds around ...
> 
> What if the map Locke saw on the blast doors was originally drawn by .... _LOCKE?_
> Couldn't one of the Dharma projects be time-shifting, like in their expts. with the 105 yr. old Orangutan? Or if not actual jumping around in time, they could cause someone to forget chunks of time -- so that things could be like déja-vu all over again!


I _think _ I remember someone suggesting that once...


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

getreal said:


> Here's another one to wrap our minds around ...
> 
> What if the map Locke saw on the blast doors was originally drawn by .... _LOCKE?_
> Couldn't one of the Dharma projects be time-shifting, like in their expts. with the 105 yr. old Orangutan? Or if not actual jumping around in time, they could cause someone to forget chunks of time -- so that things could be like déja-vu all over again!


Ok now you're sstretching


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

getreal said:


> Couldn't one of the Dharma projects be time-shifting


Not likely.

Everyone knows that you can *view* events in other time periods without affecting the timeline.

However, if you actually travel back through time, then you create a parallel time line.

And everything in the original timeline is unaffected.


----------



## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

niea_7 said:


> I didn't mean to imply that the pschycological experiement was the _only_ experiment. In fact, I think it's an extremely small piece of the puzzle. On top of that, I do not think the experiment is _only_ about entering the code, rather that entering the code is only a small part of what's happeneing.
> 
> So I completely agree that this extremely elaborate setup is indicative of something far greater. I still maintain, however, that there's someone watching the the residents of the Pearl hatch and that they are part of the experiment(s).


I'm with you now. I can see the losties being part of some experiment mainly because there seems to be threads linking most (if not all) of them.

Part of me, though, wonders if the Others are conducting experiments DESPITE the losties. I could be wrong, but there are just too many loose ends out there for me to be convinced of anything just yet.


----------



## thatmeowgirl (Oct 8, 2004)

Sometimes reading all the posts on here makes this place seem like an experiment.


----------



## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

This may be a spoiler as it comes from a future episode. It is regarding what Dr. Candle's alterego's actual name may be:



Spoiler



There's been various guesses on Dr. Candle's alterego, but IMDB has him listed as "Dr. Waxman/Candle" for "Live Together, Die Alone: Part 1," airing May 24.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> When Jack asked Sawyer to get the heroin, Sawyer said, "Give me 20 minutes."
> 
> I, too, thought the day/night issue was just a matter of it taking a good while to get from the beach to the hatch. But if Sawyer says he can walk back to the beach and back with the heroin in 20 minutes, that must mean it only takes about 10 minutes to get from the beach to the hatch...that wouldn't be far at all.
> 
> And then there's the issue with Hurley. Libby clearly left to get the blankets while the sun was still up (whether it was mid day or almost night) a whole night obviously passes and when Hurley asks Sawyer and Kate about Libby its at the very least late morning. Why wouldn't have Hurley visited the hatch before then to see if Libby had made it back there to get the blankets?


I'm OK with the light/dark (although I must admit I have not gone to re-watch it yet). Near the equator there is no dusk -- it goes from daylight to night time in a hurry. Plus, assuming the hatch entrance is in dense jungle it's quite likely that it appears to be a lot darker than it does on the beach.

As for Hurley, he is still not entirely comfortable with Libby being his girlfriend. What if she was just setting him up for a joke? What if she decided that she didn't really want to date him? I can see Hurley being very reluctant to come up to someone and say, "Hey, have you seen Libby? We were supposed to go on a date." The answer could very well be "You dating Libby? No way, she was just fooling around and you fell for it." If you recall when he asked Jack/Kate he was trying to be very nonchalant about it.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Didn't it break your heart when Hurley said: "I'm sorry I forgot the blankets."

He may carry a lot of guilt about Libby being shot. He tends to blame himself (or his curse/luck) when anything bad happens to someone he cares about.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> Didn't it break your heart when Hurley said: "I'm sorry I forgot the blankets."


Yes it did. That's the part where I broke down and cried. I knew Hurley would probably take it really hard since the reason she went to the hatch was for the blankets...the blankets that he forgot to bring to begin with. I wouldn't be surprised if Hurley has a relapse in his depression or whatever it was that had him in the mental hospital.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

One page behind, but..

..maybe the whole point of the cameras etc is to watch how people react to the vaccine and/or sickness?


----------



## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> That's the part where I broke down and cried.


wow.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Sorry in advance if I'm smeeking, but I haven't seen it mentioned. In the pearl orientation film the Dr. said to put the completed notebook in the vacuum tube and it would "reach us." 

I can't imagine that system being able to work over long distances, so that means there's a HQ/command center type place somewhere nearby. Could Zeke and his group live there?

Geez, I read through 100 or so post and no mention of vacuum tubes. Now a few posts before mine, there's one. D'oh.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Speaking of the vacuum tubes, I thought it was pretty lame that Locke stuck the map in there and it got sucked up. There wouldn't be enough suction to suck up a loose paper like that. It's why they use those round canisters (to create a seal in the pipe and allow it to be sucked to the proper location).


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## Maxnl (Jan 7, 2006)

Now that they've found the logs, can't they look and see if "Henry" really did enter the code or not?


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Maxnl said:


> Now that they've found the logs, can't they look and see if "Henry" really did enter the code or not?


That assumes that someone was in the Pearl station taking notes at the time but hadn't sent the notebook up the vacuum tube yet.

Considering that the plane was on top of the (seemingly) only door into the Pearl station and the station appeared have been long abandoned, I really doubt that anyone was taking notes at the time (which would have only been a couple of days ago in island time).


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

getbak said:


> That assumes that someone was in the Pearl station taking notes at the time but hadn't sent the notebook up the vacuum tube yet.


Actually, the logs he was talking about looked like they were captured automatically. He's was talking about the computer printout w. the numbers and times, rather than the notebooks with personal observations.


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

verdugan said:


> Actually, the logs he was talking about looked like they were captured automatically. He's was talking about the computer printout w. the numbers and times, rather than the notebooks with personal observations.


Okay. That makes sense. First, they'd have to figure out how to read them.


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

verdugan said:


> Sorry in advance if I'm smeeking, but I haven't seen it mentioned. In the pearl orientation film the Dr. said to put the completed notebook in the vacuum tube and it would "reach us."
> 
> I can't imagine that system being able to work over long distances, so that means there's a HQ/command center type place somewhere nearby. Could Zeke and his group live there?
> 
> Geez, I read through 100 or so post and no mention of vacuum tubes. Now a few posts before mine, there's one. D'oh.


It's a pneumatic transfer system. Works on pressurization, not vacuum. They can work over quite long distances if properly designed. Some systems have run 20km (about 12 miles).


----------



## Dad (Oct 27, 2001)

getreal said:


> Here's another one to wrap our minds around ...
> 
> What if the map Locke saw on the blast doors was originally drawn by .... _LOCKE?_
> Couldn't one of the Dharma projects be time-shifting, like in their expts. with the 105 yr. old Orangutan? Or if not actual jumping around in time, they could cause someone to forget chunks of time -- so that things could be like déja-vu all over again!


I don't think this is the case, but, the ? is only a ? AFTER the plane has fallen to make the O a ? So, how would the original map maker know it would be ? and not a O unless they knew that the fallen plane would make it a ?. Unless the the lower part of the ? was there and the plane covered it up and was only a tool to get them there...

This show is cranking up for one big finish.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

... and no one at the other end will know anything arrived, anyway. You tend to sense the change in pressure and hear the canister coming down the tube. If the map could somehow make it all the way back to the other end (which I doubt), it would make no sound and likely no one would notice.


----------



## Maxnl (Jan 7, 2006)

getbak said:


> Okay. That makes sense. First, they'd have to figure out how to read them.


It looked like it was printed as accepted at _:__ time with ___ time remaining, so it would seem that they would see a not accepted somewhere or something like that.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Smeeking myself - the question mark was on the map only to indicate that something odd was there, in the middle of the rest of the stations. Most likely because it was out of the 108 minute range from the Swan. The map maker never saw the location in person, IMHO.

The real design was a circle of salted earth (looks like a pearl, see), which with the plane at the edge of looks very much like Yemi/Eko's cross necklace. Also proving that Boone's "sacrifice" would seem to have additional meaning.


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

JMikeD said:


> It's a pneumatic transfer system. Works on pressurization, not vacuum. They can work over quite long distances if properly designed. Some systems have run 20km (about 12 miles).


I still think that in the grand scheme of things, 20km is still pretty close. It's prob on the island itself.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Locke should definitely be able to tell. IIRC, there was a range of about 150 countdowns on the printouts, and at 108 minutes each that's just over 11 days worth of "acceptances". More than enough to cover the Henry Era.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> Locke should definitely be able to tell. IIRC, there was a range of about 150 countdowns on the printouts, and at 108 minutes each that's just over 11 days worth of "acceptances". More than enough to cover the Henry Era.


We don't know the last time the records were printed.

Assuming it's been saving all of the entries since the last print-off was run, and if it hasn't been run for many years, it could take a while to catch up to the present.

Of course, this all assumes that the print-offs themselves aren't part of the experiment.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Good point. It seemed to run for about another page then quit, so I didn't think it had been years since it was last printed. The ribbon would have dried out if it had been too long. Mine used to last a while, but not years. We need our Apple tech back for confirmation.


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> If the map could somehow make it all the way back to the other end (which I doubt), it would make no sound and likely no one would notice.


Right. That map ain't going nowhere. You need the canister with a seal to the tube for anything to travel along the tube for more than several meters, if that much.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Dad said:


> ... the ? is only a ? AFTER the plane has fallen to make the O a ? So, how would the original map maker know it would be ? and not a O unless they knew that the fallen plane would make it a ?. Unless the the lower part of the ? was there and the plane covered it up and was only a tool to get them there...


I disagree. It looked like a "?" to me, and the plane happened to fall where the tail covered the dot part of the question mark. It was not a full circle. But I saw how the plane made a nice cross symbol, and I like the idea that with the salted ground, that it could also be symbolic of a cross on a chain, as that was where Eko's brother was also found, and would be even more meaningful to Eko.

And for Eko and Locke, two "men of faith", to find the location together was a nice touch. As Locke was becoming disillusioned with his concept of faith in the island, as there was a scientific explanation for many things he wanted to believe in, he needed some sort of reaffirmation of the spiritual/mystical.

Kudos to the writers.


----------



## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> IIRC, the maximum recording time for UMatic is 2 hours


Between 61-62 1/2 minutes depending on tape brand.


----------



## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

I'm confused about one thing...someone else mentioned it but no one else commented on it...how is the plane there, intact, at the question mark, when Eko burned it after finding his brother?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I didn't think the plane was intact. It had burn marks on it. Maybe Eko set it on fire, but didn't wait for it to burn to ashes. Which is good because at that time there was worry about a jungle fire and such. Maybe the regular afternoon rain stopped the fire.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Hemi said:


> Wouldn't you be curious as to where the vacuum tube went to and try and follow it?


Nah. It's obvious that it goes to the Central Bureaucracy for the notebooks to be filed and never seen again...


----------



## Zrealm (Apr 25, 2005)

getreal said:


> as there was a scientific explanation for many things he wanted to believe in, he needed some sort of reaffirmation of the spiritual/mystical.
> 
> Kudos to the writers.


And then, of course, they immediately take it away from him and strongly imply that he's been duped the entire time...


----------



## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Chibbie said:


> Could Whoopi be Michael's mother?


No, but she could easily be Michael in drag!


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

As an off topic deviation from this episode, I saw this article and it reminded me of the "debate" from earlier this season as to whether Desmond was on a solo race or a solar race:

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/may2006/id20060508_074303.htm?campaign_id=bier_innm


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

betts4 said:


> I didn't think the plane was intact. It had burn marks on it. Maybe Eko set it on fire, but didn't wait for it to burn to ashes. Which is good because at that time there was worry about a jungle fire and such. Maybe the regular afternoon rain stopped the fire.


2 different planes... this was the one boone fell in. the charlie heroin one was the one they burned.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

bruinfan said:


> 2 different planes... this was the one boone fell in. the charlie heroin one was the one they burned.


No they're the same plane. When Boone first entered the plane, he found the two "priests" and the stash of Mary statues which were filled with heroin.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

bruinfan said:


> 2 different planes... this was the one boone fell in. the charlie heroin one was the one they burned.


Nope - just the one. It was the same plane for both.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

bruinfan said:


> 2 different planes... this was the one boone fell in. the charlie heroin one was the one they burned.


Umm, no. Those are the same plane. Charlie was at the plane that Boone died at and Sayid showed him it contained heroine (by tossing a statue on the ground, which broke.. in real life, doing that it'd probably just land, and there'd be an awkward "well, that didn't do it" - and he'd pick it up, and try smashing it, etc.. but I digress).

Eko told Charlie to bring him to where he found the statue.. It was the same plane.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I don't know it anyone will correct you, but they're the same plane.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

hefe said:


> I don't know it anyone will correct you, but they're the same plane.


Hey Hefe, I think that was a smeek.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Redux said:


> Between 61-62 1/2 minutes depending on tape brand.


Now that you mention it, I remember that now!

When Sony released the first "consumer" format video cassette, I remember that it was a big deal to them to get 2 hours, so that most movies would fit on one tape.

I now remember that Sony's 2 hours for the first Beta tapes roughly doubled the recording time of UMatic!

(Good catch!)


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Sony's first beta tapes were only 60 minutes. VHS came out with two and three hour tapes and this is usually cited as a major reason that VHS won the format war--people wanted to be able to record whole movies on one tape. Beta later developed longer tapes, but it was too late. (Oh, yeah... NOW you remember!  )


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Sony's first beta tapes were only 60 minutes. VHS came out with two and three hour tapes and this is usually cited as a major reason that VHS won the format war--people wanted to be able to record whole movies on one tape. Beta later developed longer tapes, but it was too late. (Oh, yeah... NOW you remember!  )


The one hour machines were the "Beta 1" speed machines, the speed that professional "Betacam" camcorders run at to this day, in addition to having a speed twice that, for 0.5 hours per tape. (Their quality having been improved since then to a level acceptable for broadcast.)

A strong case can be made that the original "Beta 1" decks were not consumer recorders, but "commercial" units. They were not broadcast quality, but were aimed at commercial/business/educational uses (which was also one of the primary target markets of the UMatic machines). They were marketed to businesses, schools, etc. and not really directly to the consumer.

The first Beta decks clearly aimed at the consumer, for home use, were the "Beta 2" decks, that offered 2 hours on a tape.

Actually, "Beta 2" and VHS were released within a few months of each other, if not a few weeks. (It's possible I was mistaken about who was first, but I'm sure they came out within a very short time from one-another.) The industrial espionage between JVC and Sony was sufficient to keep the formats competitive on recording time.

Most industry experts agree that the reason VHS won had nothing to do with record time or quality. It was strictly the result of JVC's open and easy licensing policy (which allowed many different manufacturers to offer VHS format machines), vs. Sony's misguided, closed, tightly controlled licensing policy that reserved the rights to all manufacturing of Beta format machines to Sony alone (although, for a short time, some Sony manufactured Beta machines were rebranded as "Zenith" units). I had such a "Zenith" branded Beta deck! Pop the top and all the circuit boards said "Sony" on their silk screen!


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## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Most industry experts agree that the reason VHS won had nothing to do with record time or quality. It was strictly the result of JVC's open and easy licensing policy (which allowed many different manufacturers to offer VHS format machines), vs. Sony's misguided, closed, tightly controlled licensing policy that reserved the rights to all manufacturing of Beta format machines to Sony alone (although, for a short time, some Sony manufactured Beta machines were rebranded as "Zenith" units). I had such a "Zenith" branded Beta deck! Pop the top and all the circuit boards said "Sony" on their silk screen!


Kind of the opposite result of the iPOD.


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## Blackforge (Feb 11, 2004)

getreal said:


> I disagree. It looked like a "?" to me, and the plane happened to fall where the tail covered the dot part of the question mark. It was not a full circle. But I saw how the plane made a nice cross symbol, and I like the idea that with the salted ground, that it could also be symbolic of a cross on a chain, as that was where Eko's brother was also found, and would be even more meaningful to Eko.
> 
> And for Eko and Locke, two "men of faith", to find the location together was a nice touch. As Locke was becoming disillusioned with his concept of faith in the island, as there was a scientific explanation for many things he wanted to believe in, he needed some sort of reaffirmation of the spiritual/mystical.
> 
> Kudos to the writers.


I definitely only saw a circle with the the "cross" of the plane beneath it. A question mark wouldn't really be "suitable" for the Pearl hatch. I'm thinking a Circle for the "pearl". Maybe its just me...


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

The new Entertainment Weekly has a Lost cover story. Heavy with spoilerish stuff, especially about the season finale. If you don't want to see spoilers, just admire the pictures of the pretty people on the cover and wait at least until after May 24 (actually, you better wait longer, like after the series finale) to read the story.

There was one piece of information that relates to repeated discussion here. Don't know if it's a spoiler or not because it has to do with scheduling, absolutely not with content/plot. And I don't know how to do spoiler tags, so I would appreciate some guidance, either as to how to do spoiler tags, or whether scheduling info would even be considered a spoiler.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Blackforge said:


> I definitely only saw a circle with the the "cross" of the plane beneath it. A question mark wouldn't really be "suitable" for the Pearl hatch. I'm thinking a Circle for the "pearl". Maybe its just me...


My thinking was that the person who drew the map on the blast door thought it was a question mark when it was really a circle. Unless the person saw it from above like Ecko did, it may not appear to be a full circle. From ground level, it may look like a question mark.

We assumed the first time we saw the map, that "?" meant "I don't know which hatch this is, but there is one there", or "i'm not sure if there is something there, but it makes sense that there would be" when in fact the map drawer thought it was the ? hatch.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> And I don't know how to do spoiler tags, so I would appreciate some guidance, either as to how to do spoiler tags, or whether scheduling info would even be considered a spoiler.


Learn how to work Spoiler tags.

As for scheduling info, the forum etiquette is that _anything_ for _any_ episode after the episode being discussed here is spoiler-tag worthy.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Thanks, Hanumang.

Here is the info spoilerized, but if you don't mind having info that's just about scheduling, I promise there is no content information included.



Spoiler



"And perhaps the most promising tease of all for Lost fans will be a welcome change in ABC's erratic, repeat-heavy scheduling of the show, which the producers believe has hindered their serialized storytelling."

Apparently, they have not made any final decisions, but it looks like the new episodes will run in larger chunks, but they won't run all new episodes consecutively like 24.

Hopefully, this will give Devdogaz some free time to pursue other interests next year.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> Thanks, Hanumang.
> 
> Here is the info spoilerized, but if you don't mind having info that's just about scheduling, I promise there is no content information included.
> 
> ...


That wasn't a spoiler. It had to do with production and scheduling. There was nothing in that that could possibly be construed to reveal or hint at the content of _any_ episode, past or future.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Well, FishMan, I thought better safe than sorry. 

Besides, at least I learned how to do spoiler tags.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

I saw the circle too, but the plane was lying just next to the circle, and I saw the plane as an "X marks the spot" indicator. Indeed, the plane was right over the hatch/opening. Ecko thought the circle was a marker. The "X" the plane made was "from the island" as an indicator to where the hatch for Pearl was located.

Wouldn't a place with that much rain wash away the salt pretty quickly, letting the jungle retake the circle? It would have to be resalted very often to maintain the circle marker. Like the ribbon in the printer, it's another of those newish/oldish parts of the island, like the washer/dryer combination and the record player, the televisions and the VCR.

By the way, I would never operate a VCR that was covered in so much dust. I'd do my best to wipe it off, blow it off, or just turn it over and shake it first.

As long as we are interested in the printout records, any thought or suggestion that they will find out that the "button" was NOT pressed at the time Oceanic Airlines 815 crashed? (Is that the right flight number?) Maybe the crash was the result of the button not being pressed. When Jack told Desmond that he was from a crashed plane, Desmond asked when it had crashed. Maybe he was remembering an occurrence of him not entering the code.

Sawyer is tricky. Now he has to move all the guns again I guess.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> That wasn't a spoiler. It had to do with production and scheduling. There was nothing in that that could possibly be construed to reveal or hint at the content of _any_ episode, past or future.


Though correct in this case (since it was broadcast schedule), sometimes scheduling info - especially relating to the actors or locations - can be spoilerish.

I mention this since I'm the one that recommended spoiler tags, so I should take the 'blame,' so to speak. Not to mention that some folks on this forum just take (the definition of) spoilers a little too far.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

hanumang said:


> Though correct in this case (since it was broadcast schedule), sometimes scheduling info - especially relating to the actors or locations - can be spoilerish.


That should have been in spoiler tags.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

getbak said:


> No they're the same plane. When Boone first entered the plane, he found the two "priests" and the stash of Mary statues which were filled with heroin.


well, ok then... don't know how i missed that, after reading 4,815,162,342 posts and blogs, and dvd extras, and e true hollywood stories... oops, i guess it's the same plane.


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

I think it would be great if the season finale had some losties go over a mountain after the others only to find the planet ruled by apes in white coats.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Blackforge said:


> I definitely only saw a circle with the the "cross" of the plane beneath it. A question mark wouldn't really be "suitable" for the Pearl hatch. I'm thinking a Circle for the "pearl". Maybe its just me...


No, it's not just you ... though it is an excellent thought, if I say so myself. 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4028074&&#post4028074


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I didn't think the plane was intact. It had burn marks on it. Maybe Eko set it on fire, but didn't wait for it to burn to ashes. Which is good because at that time there was worry about a jungle fire and such. Maybe the regular afternoon rain stopped the fire.


A metal plane wouldn't burn to ashes. It just becomes a charred hull, but the metal is still intact. You could see in this episode that the plane had been burned.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

You guys may want to pick up a copy of the latest issue of Entertainment Weekly. It's a Lost "Special Collectors Edition". It quashes some rumors and has some nice theories. Watch out for the spoilers, though.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Church AV Guy said:


> I
> 
> By the way, I would never operate a VCR that was covered in so much dust. I'd do my best to wipe it off, blow it off, or just turn it over and shake it first.


You've never lifted one of those 3/4*"* decks, have you?

kel


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

darthrsg said:


> I think it would be great if the season finale had some losties go over a mountain after the others only to find the planet ruled by apes in white coats.


I'm thinking a cunning a subtle experiment being run by white mice myself.....


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Did anyone notice the cigarette in the Pearl "hatch" still burning?

Cuse and Lindlof said that it was in the recent podcast.

kel


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

teknikel said:


> You've never lifted one of those 3/4*"* decks, have you?
> 
> kel


had two of those in high school, laughed myself silly when I saw them put the tape in and run it with all the dirt. Great machines for their time, but more Rube Goldberg technical jiggery pokery inside than the space shuttle. THe least little thing would lead to spectacular tape jams. They worked pretty much ok in a controlled environment, but if we took them out of the lab, they had to get a thourogh cleaning before we'd tust them again.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

ironchef said:


> I'm thinking a cunning a subtle experiment being run by white mice myself.....


42!!


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

madscientist said:


> 42!!


Ahhhhhh, six times nine!!!!


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

hanumang said:


> Though correct in this case (since it was broadcast schedule), sometimes scheduling info - especially relating to the actors or locations - can be spoilerish.
> 
> I mention this since I'm the one that recommended spoiler tags, so I should take the 'blame,' so to speak. Not to mention that some folks on this forum just take (the definition of) spoilers a little too far.


I agree with all that (except I don't "blame" you). And I think it's hilarious that putting something in spoiler tags that probably doesn't belong there garners as many comments as not spoilerizing something that should be.

I really enjoy this forum, but sometimes you just can't win around here. Sometimes people are so ready to pounce on any mistake. I don't blame people who don't want to see spoilers. OTOH, have you noticed lately how many posts lately start with an apology? ("I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, but. . ."). Expecting someone to read the active thread and to have a basic understanding of forum rules is one thing, but expecting expecting everyone to walk a tightrope of the forum rules or to have memorized every detail of every post on every thread from this and last season is a little silly. I am sure it has kept some people away who might otherwise enjoy participating.

(FishMan, this is a general rant, not directed at your comment. I truly do appreciate your clarification.)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> I really enjoy this forum, but sometimes you just can't win around here. Sometimes people are so ready to pounce on any mistake. I don't blame people who don't want to see spoilers. OTOH, have you noticed lately how many posts lately start with an apology? ("I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, but. . .").


An ellipsis is supposed to have three periods, but generally it's _not_ supposed to have spaces between them. Technically you should use the unicode character U+2026, which encapsulates all three dots in one character.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> An ellipsis is supposed to have three periods, but generally it's _not_ supposed to have spaces between them. Technically you should use the unicode character U+2026, which encapsulates all three dots in one character.


ROFL!!!


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> An ellipsis is supposed to have three periods, but generally it's _not_ supposed to have spaces between them. Technically you should use the unicode character U+2026, which encapsulates all three dots in one character.


Thanks, Jeff!


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

mqpickles said:


> OTOH, have you noticed lately how many posts lately start with an apology? ("I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, but. . ."). Expecting someone to read the active thread and to have a basic understanding of forum rules is one thing, but expecting expecting everyone to walk a tightrope of the forum rules or to have memorized every detail of every post on every thread from this and last season is a little silly. I am sure it has kept some people away who might otherwise enjoy participating.


To be fair, though...(note proper use of ellipsis  )

When the threads are 200-300-400 posts long, part of the reason they are that long is the smeeking that goes on (and then the requisite complaining about the smeeking right after). I think people who post on the thread should take the time to read through the entire thread. If there is something the poster wants to share, they would note it when they read it and know not to repeat the exact same sentiment. They may want to elaborate, which would add to the knowledge of the readers. Is that asking so much?

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect:
1. people to read before posting and know details of the current thread
2. know spoiler rules(IRS)/forum rules

If you have the time to post on a thread, you should make time to read the thread before posting.

And apologizing beforehand doesn't make it ok.

But, hey, it is what it is, huh?  And the thread is one post longer.


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## 8krpm (Mar 21, 2005)

The first time Locke visited that plane with Boone, didn't his paralysis return? Why not this time?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

8krpm said:


> The first time Locke visited that plane, didn't his paralysis return? Why not this time?


Some speculated at the time that the paralysis returned because of something to do with the area where the plane was. Obviously, after this episode, that speculation was incorrect.

We don't know why his paralysis showed up during that episode, although you can guess that it was simply the island forcing Locke to send Boone up in the plane. That's probably why Locke said in this most recent episode that "the island demanded a sacrifice," or something to that effect.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Bruinfan -- I believe we agree. 

The ones that really drive me nuts (and it doesn't happen very often) are the smeek complaints that relate to last season's threads. I think it is too much to expect people to remember previous threads and ridiculous to expect them to remember threads from last season. (Most of us have things like jobs or school and families that have to occupy some portion of our attention.) Anyway, I think that level of complaining really discourages participation, especially from new people, and I think it's good to have new people join in. Just as it has been good for Lost to have some of the new cast members. (E.g., I just love Eko, even though I misspell his name sometimes.)

And I totally agree that apologizing before doing something wrong doesn't make it right (like Michael saying "I'm sorry" and then shooting AL; I'm sure that made her feel a lot better in her final moment). My point was it seems lately more people are walking on eggshells because they are worried that any little misstep is going to get them flamed. (I know that's what I was doing when I inadvertently started this whole discussion by spoilerizing something that didn't need it, not that I feel like I have been flamed. Just corrected and teased a little, which is perfectly fine.)


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

Blah Blah Blah... These posts are the very reason I am not going back and reading the whole thread.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

And Locke was actually mocking himself. He originally said that line after Boone died in S1, and now felt guilty about it. But it turns out that perhaps the island did demand a sacrifice - since the airplane falling completed the "cross necklace". Locke could not be allowed to go up there, so his legs "failed".

Dharma or faith? You decide ...


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