# HR20 & HR10-250 living happily together?



## mdh333 (Dec 9, 2002)

I currently have 2 HR10-250s, and one SD Tivo. I have the 3lnb dish, with antenna attached to it.

I'm getting an HR20 tomorrow, complete with new dish. I don't want to have 2 dishes on my house (for a variety of reasons.)

Can the installer remove the old dish, put the antenna on the new dish (maybe he'd need something to make it fit?), and just reuse the existing wires? I'm sure that I would have to make sure that the work order says this, but is it feasible?

From most of my past installers, I assume he'll show up planning on just putting a new dish up and running new wires so I duplicate everything and it's as easy as possible for him.

(oh, I realize that unless I run some new wires from the multi-switch I won't be able to really use both the HR20 & HR10-250 that it's kinda replacing at the same time. But that would be a simple run under the house that I could do in the future if I want both running.)


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

I can't speak for the dish-mount antenna, one of the reasons I opted for a chimney-mount antenna separate from the dish, but since you'll have four leads coming from the dish, of course you can use the HR10 and HR20 together. If you want to use all three of your existing DVRs you need a 4 input 8 output multiswitch.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

mdh333 said:


> I currently have 2 HR10-250s, and one SD Tivo. I have the 3lnb dish, with antenna attached to it.
> 
> I'm getting an HR20 tomorrow, complete with new dish. I don't want to have 2 dishes on my house (for a variety of reasons.)
> 
> ...


They will have to remove the old dish/post. The wiring can stay the same. Just make sure that the WB68 Multi-Switch in ON your work order.

I have the same set-up running. A HR10-250 with a HR20 in the house.


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## mdh333 (Dec 9, 2002)

What about the OTA antenna? Is there one that attaches to the new dish? or can my existing one attach? (it's just a very simple one provided by DTV during a previous install)

I already have a powered multi-switch (4*8, I believe) is there any reason I would need a new one?


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## Mr_Bester (Jan 27, 2007)

You need the new multiswitch to get the new sats. You cannot diplex in the ota with the sat on the 5lnb. You need a separate run for your ota.
Dug


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Mr_Bester said:


> You need the new multiswitch to get the new sats. You cannot diplex in the ota with the sat on the 5lnb. You need a separate run for your ota.
> Dug


A slight correction. You can not diplex in the OTA on the lines feeding the HR-20 but you can on the lines feeding the HR10.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Sure, you can run as many receivers, old and new, as you want.

1) They will (or should) replace your dish with the new 5 LNB dish.
2) Your current OTA antenna cannot be diplexed when using the new 5 LNB dish. You need to run a separate cable for the antenna into the house. Also the antenna you have if it clips on the dish may not fit on the 5LNB. Won't know until the installer gets there I guess.
3) Yes, you need to replace your mutliswitch and it is included in the install for free. Be sure it's on your work order. You will get the WB68 which has 8 outputs
4) As mentioned above, you *can* diplex in OTA to the other non HR20 receivers but *after* the multiswitch. So run the dedicated OTA cable to the same location as your multiswitch. Then you can split it and diplex into the lines running to the HR10s. You'll need to run a dedicated line to the HR20, no diplexing.


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## mdh333 (Dec 9, 2002)

Thanks. I'll make the work order includes the new multi-switch (though, they always seem to have plenty of those to give out)

I already have a seperate cable run for the OTA that just does an old-school split under the house, so should be good there as long as the antenna can be made to fit....hmm, might need to find some duct tape.


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## BruceShultes (Oct 2, 2006)

From what I have read, the standard installation of the new dish for the HR20 does not include removal of any old dishes.

If you want it removed, you will probably need to pay the installer to do it.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

BruceShultes said:


> From what I have read, the standard installation of the new dish for the HR20 does not include removal of any old dishes.
> 
> If you want it removed, you will probably need to pay the installer to do it.


How told you that? I had my 3 lnb removed so the 5 lnb could go in the same spot.

When I had the 3 lnb installed, it was mounted to another spot so they left the 1 lnb. But they offered to remove it. But I use it to feed another room.

Maybe on a roof install as they don't want leaks or repair your roof.


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## beartrap (Nov 8, 2005)

BruceShultes said:


> From what I have read, the standard installation of the new dish for the HR20 does not include removal of any old dishes.
> 
> If you want it removed, you will probably need to pay the installer to do it.


Not my experience. I got a HR20 to supplement my two HR10s, and the old 3LNB dish and post were removed, and the new 5LNB dish was put in its place, all as part of the standard install.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

They took my old dish. Funny thing is when they installed the HR10 the previous year, the installer left the old one behind so maybe it's just the whim of the installer.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

FYI that the 5 LNB dish will *not* fit on the post for the 3 LNB dish, they are different sizes. The 5 LNB takes a 2" OD (outside diamater) while the 3 LNB takes 1 5/8th" OD.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

My installer not only removed the old 3 LNB dish when he put up my new 5 LNB dish, but he threw the 3-LMB dish on the lawn from the roof, banging it up pretty good and also digging a hole in the lawn! (Needless to say, I was pissed. I had plans for that old dish!  )


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## Cmmsh (Jan 2, 2007)

drew2k said:


> My installer not only removed the old 3 LNB dish when he put up my new 5 LNB dish, but he threw the 3-LMB dish on the lawn from the roof, banging it up pretty good and also digging a hole in the lawn! (Needless to say, I was pissed. I had plans for that old dish!  )


Same here ... just had it done last week. Threw the 3-LNB dish on the lawn, and left it and the hole in the grass for me to clean up.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

drew2k said:


> My installer not only removed the old 3 LNB dish when he put up my new 5 LNB dish, but he threw the 3-LMB dish on the lawn from the roof, banging it up pretty good and also digging a hole in the lawn! (Needless to say, I was pissed. I had plans for that old dish!  )


At least they did not throw it off the roof and crack the shell of your spa. Still trying to collect the money.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

rminsk said:


> At least they did not throw it off the roof and crack the shell of your spa. Still trying to collect the money.


OK, you win!


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## boltjames (Dec 21, 2002)

The HR10 and the HR20 are mortal enemies and cannot play nice together. You're either with us or you're without us.

BJ


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

boltjames said:


> The HR10 and the HR20 are mortal enemies and cannot play nice together. You're either with us or you're without us.
> 
> BJ


I'm hoping that was made in jest, but if not ...

That may be the case for some, but that's not the case for all. I do not share this belief, and there are many other HR10 and HR20 owners who also do not share this belief.


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## mdh333 (Dec 9, 2002)

Well - I'm all installed and good to go. They removed the old dish...but left the post which had the antenna. Seemed a fair trade, considering it all wouldn't have fit anyway.

No new multi-switch needed (I have some powered 4x8 one that's under my house and I'm too lazy to figure out the exact model), and the new one is setup. Guess I'll figure out what I think about it...but in reality, I know it's not like I'm going to be able to stick with the HR10-250 forever. I'm already happy to have added Fox Sports Florida in HD (hmm, at least I think I am....wonder what channel that will be?)


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

when's single line ready?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

newsposter said:


> when's single line ready?


It's been ready for a while, in testing anyway over on DBSTalk. No word on availability to the publc, perhaps by end of the year.

The other nice thing about it besides running dual tuners with just one cable is the ability to use regular splitters and RG59 on the out FTM outputs. So for example I have one line split with a regular old RCA cable splitter with one cable to the HR20 running both tuners and another cable to the H21. All on just one output from the SWM5. Works like a charm.

Stop over to DBSTalk for more info on the SWM in the CE forum.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

mdh333 said:


> No new multi-switch needed (I have some powered 4x8 one that's under my house and I'm too lazy to figure out the exact model), and the new one is setup.


When the new sats come online the 4x8 multiswitches will not be able to pass the Ka-band signals. You need to have your multiswitches replaced with 6x8 wide band multiswitches. Have the installer come back out and replace the multiswitches.


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## boltjames (Dec 21, 2002)

drew2k said:


> I'm hoping that was made in jest, but if not ...
> 
> That may be the case for some, but that's not the case for all. I do not share this belief, and there are many other HR10 and HR20 owners who also do not share this belief.


In 8 weeks, everyone with an HR10 will be crazed with frustration over the fact that HR20 owners get 50+ HD channels and they get 16. On that date, the HR10 is relegated to a standard def doorstop for the kids in the basement and the flood of HD calls to D* breaks all records.

It's inevitable that HR10 people become HR20 people. Now that the HD bird is in orbit, its time to bring that conclusion to a head.

BJ


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Hey BJ, there really is no reason to fan the flames about these types of things, it doesn't help.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

boltjames said:


> In 8 weeks, everyone with an HR10 will be crazed with frustration over the fact that HR20 owners get 50+ HD channels and they get 16.


And the HR20 will be jealous because the HR10-250 has been up and running for several months without a reboot, did not cut short any programs, has a working channel I receive list, and can actually do trick play.


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## boltjames (Dec 21, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Hey BJ, there really is no reason to fan the flames about these types of things, it doesn't help.


Sorry; wasn't trying to fan any flames. I apologize about my tone.

What I'm trying to say (in unemotional English this time) is that I can't see the purpose of an HR10 DVR once the 50 to 100 HD channels go live between September and January.

The HR10's are owned by HD connoissuers, purchased for over $1000 in many cases. These people have the bucks and have the equipment that won't let them tolerate a lack of content for the sake of a different UI.

IMHO, all HR10er's are going to become HR20er's by October for their primary HDTV DVR.

If I'm wrong, someone tell me. It's inevitable, so continuing the discussion seems to be a moot point, no?

BJ


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## tall1 (Oct 12, 2004)

boltjames said:


> Sorry; wasn't trying to fan any flames. I apologize about my tone.
> 
> What I'm trying to say (in unemotional English this time) is that I can't see the purpose of an HR10 DVR once the 50 to 100 HD channels go live between September and January.
> 
> ...


You're wrong, I won't be using my HR20 as my primary HD DVR. I have a wife who will beat me with her rolling pin if I miss any recordings. The HR10s will do that reliably, I can't take the chance with the HR20.


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## boltjames (Dec 21, 2002)

tall1 said:


> You're wrong, I won't be using my HR20 as my primary HD DVR. I have a wife who will beat me with her rolling pin if I miss any recordings. The HR10s will do that reliably, I can't take the chance with the HR20.


I have owned two HR20's for the past two months and have not missed a single recording. Must have recorded 100+ programs via season passes and other means, not a single blip.

I don't know where this perception came from that the HR20 is "unreliable". It's as reliable as my HR10 was, and it's a first gen device from a brand new manufacturer too.

Speaking of wives, mine was going nuts every time NBCHD or FOXHD would have a video or audio dropout which happened almost nightly on the HR10. Tell her that's now a thing of the past with the HR20.

BJ


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

boltjames said:


> I have owned two HR20's for the past two months and have not missed a single recording. Must have recorded 100+ programs via season passes and other means, not a single blip.


Then you are one of the luck ones. The four I have access to have recordings that start late, short recordings, and missed recordings because of having no channel I receive.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

And is there a reason why you don't create a custom channel list on those units?


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

bidger said:


> And is there a reason why you don't create a custom channel list on those units?


Because a custom channel list is what TiVo calls a Favoriate Channel List. A custom channel list does not limit what channels the HR20 will record from or searchss, it only limits what is shown in the guide.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Once older receivers are updated to handle the advanced data stream and not choke then the "channels I receive" will work on the R15 and HR20's. Until then I wouldn't recommend any autorecord searches that might happen to catch channels you don't get.

More info at DBSTalk.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Once older receivers are updated to handle the advanced data stream and not choke then the "channels I receive" will work on the R15 and HR20's. Until then I wouldn't recommend any autorecord searches that might happen to catch channels you don't get.


Try to autorecord any sports without catching channels you don't receive. From all indications you will not be able to edit the channels I receive list which makes it just as useless.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

rminsk said:


> Try to autorecord any sports without catching channels you don't receive. From all indications you will not be able to edit the channels I receive list which makes it just as useless.


Today yes. But once the CIR is working then it would only have channels in it you actually receive. So there would be no case of recording it on a channel you don't get. Doesn't mean it might not record on a channel you don't want it to. 

It's probably one of the top requests to make the search be able to go off a custom channel list (favorite). Hopefully they will listen because it will be an issue for sports.

Again, DBSTalk is the best place for this discussion. They don't want it here. There are many threads on this subject over there.


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## TPA (Oct 12, 2005)

If I keep the HR10 activated and add an HR20, will I continue to receive the guide info, perform season passes, etc. (similar to current interface) for OTA channels for the HR10? If so, what will be the cost to keep the HR10 activated?


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## jhays (Apr 25, 2004)

Yes, the HR10 will continue performing just as it has.

You will pay an extra $4.99 each month for a second receiver.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> Today yes. But once the CIR is working then it would only have channels in it you actually receive. So there would be no case of recording it on a channel you don't get. Doesn't mean it might not record on a channel you don't want it to.


If you can not edit the channel I receive list then it will be almost useless. How do you know if you are going to get a high definition or low definition recording. There are many reasons to have a user editable CIR list.


bonscott87 said:


> Again, DBSTalk is the best place for this discussion. They don't want it here. There are many threads on this subject over there.


 I have discussed it over there. There is no justifable reason they do not have a user configurable CIR list. I'm making the point the the HR20 is not all sun and roses. There are still plenty of problems that people seem to forget about when posting to TiVo Community.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

rminsk said:


> If you can not edit the channel I receive list then it will be almost useless. How do you know if you are going to get a high definition or low definition recording. There are many reasons to have a user editable CIR list.
> 
> I have discussed it over there. There is no justifable reason they do not have a user configurable CIR list. I'm making the point the the HR20 is not all sun and roses. There are still plenty of problems that people seem to forget about when posting to TiVo Community.


I totally agree with all your points. As do most people.

And no receiver is all suns and roses. None. There are pros and cons to every single one and we all have to make a decision on what route to take. For good or ill the HR20 is your only choice if you want to stay with DirecTV and want the HD that they provide via the sat. There just is no way around it. BUT that doesn't mean we can't complain to high heaven about things we feel are missing. And DirecTV does listen, they have added many things to the HR20 simply because of us users complaining about it. Will we get everything we want? Probably not. Just have to come to grips with certain features that may never happen (like DLB). If that's deal breaker then research must begin for a new provider.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

boltjames, this is a joke - right?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> boltjames, this is a joke - right?


Umm .. What's a joke? It might be helpful to use the QUOTE button so we know what you're talking about.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

*"Once older receivers are updated to handle the advanced data stream and not choke then the "channels I receive" will work on the R15 and HR20's. Until then I wouldn't recommend any autorecord searches that might happen to catch channels you don't get."*

*"Today yes. But once the CIR is working then it would only have channels in it you actually receive. So there would be no case of recording it on a channel you don't get. Doesn't mean it might not record on a channel you don't want it to."*

*"If you can not edit the channel I receive list then it will be almost useless. How do you know if you are going to get a high definition or low definition recording. There are many reasons to have a user editable CIR list."*

*"I totally agree with all your points. As do most people."*

If this isn't an issue of quality and poor design, I don't know what is. This is a major feature to a lot of people - being able to record from a search list - yet in today's environment totally useless. But of course it will probably be fixed when the 'older' receivers are decommissioned. When's that 2010, 2015?


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> If this isn't an issue of quality and poor design, I don't know what is. This is a major feature to a lot of people - being able to record from a search list - yet in today's environment totally useless. But of course it will probably be fixed when the 'older' receivers are decommissioned. When's that 2010, 2015?


So?

I personally don't like it either. But at least I'm trying to get them to change it vs. just bashing it. And at the end of the day, *for me* this isn't a key feature that is at the top of my list so that if it isn't implemented I'll be fine.

It's all about Pros and Cons and everyone must make a choice about what is most important to them vs. what they get out of it.
To me, 100+ HD channels and Sunday Ticket trump DLBs, searching off a custom list and so forth.
For someone else, if DLBs or searching off a custom list is the top deal breaker then it's time to find a provider that *will* offer those things for you. No sense crying about it, just make the move.

Again, Pros vs. Cons. Every receiver has them. Every provider has them. Heck, everything in life has them. We all need to make a choice.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> *"Once older receivers are updated to handle the advanced data stream and not choke then the "channels I receive" will work on the R15 and HR20's. Until then I wouldn't recommend any autorecord searches that might happen to catch channels you don't get."*
> 
> *"Today yes. But once the CIR is working then it would only have channels in it you actually receive. So there would be no case of recording it on a channel you don't get. Doesn't mean it might not record on a channel you don't want it to."*
> 
> ...


RS4, you obviously are quoting someone, so please use the forum quote button. It's customary to attribute a quote to the person who wrote them.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

*



RS4, you obviously are quoting someone, so please use the forum quote button. It's customary to attribute a quote to the person who wrote them.

Click to expand...

*Sorry, Drew. I was quoting Scott.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

RS4 said:


> Sorry, Drew. I was quoting Scott.


and me


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> So?
> 
> I personally don't like it either. But at least I'm trying to get them to change it vs. just bashing it. And at the end of the day, *for me* this isn't a key feature that is at the top of my list so that if it isn't implemented I'll be fine.


This is a very basic design issue that could have been solved ages ago. For me it is a very major issue. Why are they trying to add all these wiz-bang features if the basic are still not working. Until I can go a month without missing a recording and not having to manually intervene to get it to record what I want this unit is almost useless as a DVR.


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