# How to stop Live TV recording?



## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

Is there a way to stop Tivo from automatically recording Live TV? I have an old Tivo, can't afford a new one, and don't want to wear out the hard drive with it constantly recording.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

If you are referring to the Live TV buffer, then the answer would generally be 'no'. 

If you can find a channel with no signal, that might alleviate your concerns. 

BTW, does this Tivo have a lifetime subscription? If your Tivo decides to bite the dust, it can most likely be repaired. There are places to get replacement parts where all you have to do is swap them out. 
If you want to save money and have computer skills, there are people here that can help you do it yourself.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> Is there a way to stop Tivo from automatically recording Live TV? I have an old Tivo, can't afford a new one, and don't want to wear out the hard drive with it constantly recording.


If your TiVo is plugged in, the hard drive is running.

That's an unavoidable part of the way it's designed.

What's the model number, do you have a lifetime subscription, and what is the hard drive size, or what number of hours is or was the TiVo advertised as being able to record?


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

steve614 said:


> If you are referring to the Live TV buffer, then the answer would generally be 'no'.
> 
> If you can find a channel with no signal, that might alleviate your concerns.
> 
> ...


How can you find a channel with no signal because my cable box will not tune itself unless it's a channel on the guide.



unitron said:


> If your TiVo is plugged in, the hard drive is running.
> 
> That's an unavoidable part of the way it's designed.
> 
> What's the model number, do you have a lifetime subscription, and what is the hard drive size, or what number of hours is or was the TiVo advertised as being able to record?


TCD540040, has lifetime, 40 hour.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> How can you find a channel with no signal because my cable box will not tune itself unless it's a channel on the guide.
> 
> TCD540040, has lifetime, 40 hour.


Most likely expenses in your future:

1. $10 worth of capacitors for the power supply if you can solder or know someone who can.

Go read the wikipedia article about "capacitor plague" so you'll understand if it happens to you.

2. And/or the cost of a replacement hard drive.

You can save money by doing that yourself if you have a computer to which you can hook up the drive and the replacement drive.

Power supply capacitors (in S2s and S3s) and hard drives are more likely to go bad than the motherboard.

Even in standby the 30 minute cache seems to still be recorded (just tried it on a 240), and the hard drive would continue to spin even if it weren't.

I suppose you could unplug it when not in use, but start-up puts extra strain on components and hard drives, so that might actually hasten its demise.


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## spidershowl11 (Jul 25, 2012)

MojoB said:


> Is there a way to stop Tivo from automatically recording Live TV? I have an old Tivo, can't afford a new one, and don't want to wear out the hard drive with it constantly recording.


You cannot stop it from recording everything but you can reduce the number of programs it records.
Press the "TiVo" button. Select "Manage Recordings & downloads." (On standard definition TiVo, select "Find Programs" and select "To do list" to see what your TiVo is set to record and when.)


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

spidershowl11 said:


> You cannot stop it from recording everything but you can reduce the number of programs it records.
> Press the "TiVo" button. Select "Manage Recordings & downloads." (On standard definition TiVo, select "Find Programs" and select "To do list" to see what your TiVo is set to record and when.)


That makes no difference. Whether it is recording something from the TDL or the live buffer, it is still recording. Canceling programs will make no difference on the wear and tear on the hard drive.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

If the disc went bad, you would not need a new tivo. You could pick up a used one cheap - craigslist is full of 10-20 offers and move the disc over. It is also easy to copy/upgrade- do it now with a new drive and then put your old one in storage- just in case. All for just the cost of the drive.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

unitron said:


> Most likely expenses in your future:
> 
> 1. $10 worth of capacitors for the power supply if you can solder or know someone who can.
> 
> ...


I don't know how to solder, could I replace the entire power supply? So you would have to move files from the original hard drive to the new one using your computer?

If you don't replace or repair it yourself, who could do it without losing my lifetime subscription? I guess I will just leave it on, which leads me to another question, how should I turn off my Tivo - just unplug it or do something before that?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> I don't know how to solder, could I replace the entire power supply? So you would have to move files from the original hard drive to the new one using your computer?
> 
> If you don't replace or repair it yourself, who could do it without losing my lifetime subscription? I guess I will just leave it on, which leads me to another question, how should I turn off my Tivo - just unplug it or do something before that?


My preferred method for turning off a TiVo involves either being able to easily access where the power cord plugs into the AC source (like a wall outlet or power strip), or being able to use a switch on a power strip.

That's as opposed to trying to pull the other end of the power cord out of the AC input jack on the back of the TiVo. The fewer times you do that over the lifetime of the TiVo the better.

Before turning it off, I like to be sure it's not in the middle of anything, like downloading or processing guide data.

Then I go into the menus:

Messages and settings-restart or reset system-restart system*--do the 3 thumbs down and then hit the enter key, and as soon as the picture disappears from the screen disconnect the AC supply.

That way, when you plug it back in, it should boot up normally. You're just turning a warm boot into a cold one.

If you put it on standby and then pull the plug, when it boots up it'll go into standby, and there will be nothing on the screen, and you'll have forgotten that you put it in standby, and you'll think that it's broken and waste a lot of time trying to fix it.

*Be sure not to select anything other than restart system, because the next screen gives the same instructions for approval (3 Thumbs Down, then hit Enter) as the more destructive options, so you won't realize your mistake.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

unitron said:


> My preferred method for turning off a TiVo involves either being able to easily access where the power cord plugs into the AC source (like a wall outlet or power strip), or being able to use a switch on a power strip.
> 
> That's as opposed to trying to pull the other end of the power cord out of the AC input jack on the back of the TiVo. The fewer times you do that over the lifetime of the TiVo the better.
> 
> ...


Ok sounds good.

Now regarding the other stuff if I can't solder can I replace the entire power supply?



unitron said:


> 2. And/or the cost of a replacement hard drive.
> 
> You can save money by doing that yourself if you have a computer to which you can hook up the drive and the replacement drive.


Would I have to move files from original hard drive to new one using a computer?

Do you know of any places that repair Tivo without losing my lifetime?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

unitron said:


> My preferred method for turning off a TiVo involves either being able to easily access where the power cord plugs into the AC source (like a wall outlet or power strip), or being able to use a switch on a power strip.
> 
> That's as opposed to trying to pull the other end of the power cord out of the AC input jack on the back of the TiVo. The fewer times you do that over the lifetime of the TiVo the better.
> 
> ...


the first thing you do after bootup is hit the TiVo button. If it's in standby it will come out of standby. I always do this on the Premiere I bring back from my GFs since she put's it in standby when we are finished watching.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

MojoB said:


> Now regarding the other stuff if I can't solder can I replace the entire power supply?


Yes. You can buy power supplies from e-bay or Weaknees.



MojoB said:


> Would I have to move files from original hard drive to new one using a computer?


If you're referring to a hard drive replacement, then yes... but not like you would think.
Before you replace the hard drive, you have to transfer the recordings to your computer using Tivo Desktop (or 3rd party equivelent) for temporary storage. Once the new hard drive is in the Tivo, you transfer them back.
If you have to replace the Tivo hard drive because of failure, then your recordings are hosed. There is no way to recover recordings directly off the hard drive on a computer.



MojoB said:


> Do you know of any places that repair Tivo without losing my lifetime?


Weaknees offers to repair Tivos. I don't know what level they go to in the event of a failure on the motherboard, but it is there.

http://www.weaknees.com/flat-fee-tivo-repair.php

http://www.weaknees.com/s3-s4-repairs.php


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

steve614 said:


> Yes. You can buy power supplies from e-bay or Weaknees.
> 
> If you're referring to a hard drive replacement, then yes... but not like you would think.
> Before you replace the hard drive, you have to transfer the recordings to your computer using Tivo Desktop (or 3rd party equivelent) for temporary storage. Once the new hard drive is in the Tivo, you transfer them back.
> ...


Are you referring to just being able to normally replace the power supply or being able to replace the power supply to fix broken capacitors?

What if i don't care about the recordings on the Tivo do I still need to do anything with a computer to replace the hard drive? It would be nice to upgrade from this 40 hour as it is now anyways since it only gets like 10 hours on best quality.

It looks like they will repair anything wrong for that flat-fee on the older Tivos like mine. Good to know!


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

MojoB said:


> Are you referring to just being able to normally replace the power supply or being able to replace the power supply to fix broken capacitors?


I'm saying that you can buy a power supply module and just swap it out.
No soldering necessary, but you do have to know how to use a torx screwdriver. 



MojoB said:


> What if i don't care about the recordings on the Tivo do I still need to do anything with a computer to replace the hard drive?


Yes, if you do it yourself. Basically, you have to copy the *TiVo software* onto the new hard drive.
This can be done in Windows with WinMFS, or you can burn a boot CD of the MFS Live software.

Read up on the subject here:
http://www.mfslive.org/fullguide.htm

Edit: For an additional cost, you can also buy new hard drives with the Tivo software pre-loaded and just swap them out.

Edit #2: Since you have a Series 2 Tivo, you would either need to find an IDE hard drive for replacement or get an IDE to SATA adapter*.

* Only certain adapters are compatible.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> Is there a way to stop Tivo from automatically recording Live TV? I have an old Tivo, can't afford a new one, and don't want to wear out the hard drive with it constantly recording.


Is there anything currently wrong with your TiVo?

If not, keep an eye on Craigslist for someone selling the same model cheap, like $10, may $20 at a maximum provided there's nothing wrong with it and the little TiVo guy hasn't come off the front panel. You might even find someone giving one away.

And it doesn't have to be a TCD540040, it can be a 540080 or a 540120--same machine, bigger hard drive.

That'll give you one you can practicing taking apart without hurting your lifetimed one or interrupting your viewing, and it'll give you a source of parts for cannibilization.

If there is something wrong with your TiVo, keep an eye on Craigslist for someone selling the same model cheap.

And familiarize yourself with the TiVo Desktop program.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

steve614 said:


> I'm saying that you can buy a power supply module and just swap it out.
> No soldering necessary, but you do have to know how to use a torx screwdriver.
> 
> Yes, if you do it yourself. Basically, you have to copy the *TiVo software* onto the new hard drive.
> ...


Have you used WinMFS before, how complicated is it in terms of how much tech knowledge required? If you buy a hard drive with Tivo pre-loaded would weaknees.com be the best option?



unitron said:


> Is there anything currently wrong with your TiVo?
> 
> If not, keep an eye on Craigslist for someone selling the same model cheap, like $10, may $20 at a maximum provided there's nothing wrong with it and the little TiVo guy hasn't come off the front panel. You might even find someone giving one away.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with the Tivo except the stupid infomercials it keeps recording, which I forget how to stop. Called Tivo weeks back they said it was pre-tivo central messages but I think it might be showcase data. Still gotta look into that, sorry for the rant.

Say I buy another Tivo, how does the MAK work say if both have lifetime on them?

What do I need to learn about Tivo Desktop?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MojoB said:


> Have you used WinMFS before, how complicated is it in terms of how much tech knowledge required?


Very little. It's a very straightforward program with a simple interface.



MojoB said:


> If you buy a hard drive with Tivo pre-loaded would weaknees.com be the best option?


Well, there aren't too many others. They are bit pricey, but I have never seen anyone complain of the quality of the product. I would never consider one as an option, but anyone whose knees shake at the thought of holding a soldering iron or writing a simple script might be well served by buying one.



MojoB said:


> Say I buy another Tivo, how does the MAK work say if both have lifetime on them?


The MAK has nothing to do with which service plans one chooses, only with who pays for them. As long as the same person pays for both plans, they get the same MAK.



MojoB said:


> What do I need to learn about Tivo Desktop?


That it is a horrible program.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> Have you used WinMFS before, how complicated is it in terms of how much tech knowledge required? If you buy a hard drive with Tivo pre-loaded would weaknees.com be the best option?
> 
> Nothing wrong with the Tivo except the stupid infomercials it keeps recording, which I forget how to stop. Called Tivo weeks back they said it was pre-tivo central messages but I think it might be showcase data. Still gotta look into that, sorry for the rant.
> 
> ...


Desktop does have it's limitations, quirks, and annoyances, but I still find it useful.

When you install the TiVo Desktop program on your computer(s), you enter the MAK which is associated with your account. Series 2 and newer TiVos are informed by the TiVo servers what MAK is associated with their TiVo Service Numbers. It's the same MAK, because the TSNs are associated with your account. Even if you only have one TiVo and have never installed TiVo Desktop anywhere, there's still a unique MAK associated with your account.

(actually, even if you only have one or more Series 1 TiVos, there's a MAK associated with your account--the S1s just can't do anything with it.)

That MAK lets stuff on your home network, like TiVos and computers running Desktop, know that they can, subject to certain rules and conditions, share stuff.

Lifetime subs and the MAK don't really have anything to do with one another, at least not directly.

In order for the TiVo to be able to do anything on your home network it has to have a current and valid subscription of some sort. Could be lifetime, once a year*, once every 3 years*, monthly, whatever, it just can't be unsubscribed.

The MAK is basically a sort of password.

If your budgetary constraints are as severe as your first post implied, then you need to consider a "roll your own" approach to drive upgrade or replacement.

It's not terribly difficult if you have the necessary equipment, which is pretty much a computer and some extra hard drive attaching cables.

*I don't think the once a year and once every 3 years payment options are currently offered, but they might be grandfathered for some owners, the way lower monthly rates are for some.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

lrhorer said:


> Very little. It's a very straightforward program with a simple interface.
> 
> Well, there aren't too many others. They are bit pricey, but I have never seen anyone complain of the quality of the product. I would never consider one as an option, but anyone whose knees shake at the thought of holding a soldering iron or writing a simple script might be well served by buying one.
> 
> ...


My main concern in doing a hard drive upgrade myself would be downloading something off some non-mainstream site and getting malware or a virus or screwing up my computer settings.

So how does the MAK work with Tivo Desktop if I have my Tivo and I buy someone else's Tivo off Craigslist that has lifetime on it. I will have 2 different MAK's right so then do I just change the MAK within Tivo desktop every time I want to transfer from each Tivo?

Unitron what part of Tivo desktop would I want to familiarize myself with and why?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MojoB said:


> My main concern in doing a hard drive upgrade myself would be downloading something off some non-mainstream site and getting malware or a virus


Use a virus scanner. Dozens of people on this site can testify the official distribution of WinMFS from http://www.mfslive.org is virus free. If you really have a bug up your butt about it, use MFS_Live. It's a linux distro on a live CD. Linux does not have viruses.



MojoB said:


> or screwing up my computer settings.


Then re-load from your backups.

WinMFS won't screw up your computer settings.



MojoB said:


> So how does the MAK work with Tivo Desktop


Extremely poorly. Not at all if you have a LAN server. Or a decent OS.

The MAK allows TDT to log in and download information and files from the TiVo.



MojoB said:


> if I have my Tivo and I buy someone else's Tivo off Craigslist that has lifetime on it. I will have 2 different MAK's right so then do I just change the MAK within Tivo desktop every time I want to transfer from each Tivo?


I suppose you could, but that would pretty much defeat the primary purpose of the MAK. That, plus the previous owner should never really share his MAK with you, or anyone else. Neither should you. A much better solution is to call TiVo and have the new TiVo transferred to your account, at which point in time (well, within 48 hours) it will obtain the same MAK as the other TiVo on your account. Note the MAK doesn't really have anything directly to do with TDT, per se. The MAK is required when logging in to the TiVo from any utility, including kmttg, pyTivo (for pushes only), streambaby, HME for Python and any of its tools, another TiVo, or any old web browser. It's also required for TDT.

Here I am logging in to one of my TiVos using a web browser (FireFox):










The user name is "tivo". The password is my MAK. Every other TiVo application that attempts to contact the TiVo using SHTTP, including TDT, does the exact same thing behind the scenes. The MAK is also used as an encryption / decryption key for decrypting .TiVo files. Again, this is true no matter what utility is doing the decryption.

Note if you download any shows off the new TiVo when it has its old MAK, then those files can only be decrypted using the old MAK.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> My main concern in doing a hard drive upgrade myself would be downloading something off some non-mainstream site and getting malware or a virus or screwing up my computer settings.
> 
> So how does the MAK work with Tivo Desktop if I have my Tivo and I buy someone else's Tivo off Craigslist that has lifetime on it. I will have 2 different MAK's right so then do I just change the MAK within Tivo desktop every time I want to transfer from each Tivo?
> 
> Unitron what part of Tivo desktop would I want to familiarize myself with and why?


When you buy a TiVo for which someone else has already purchased Product Lifetime Service, you need to contact TiVo to have it transferred to your account (where your current TiVo already is).

It wouldn't hurt for the seller to contact them and inform them that they've sold it, but since you already have a TiVo account you have a certain amount of credibility with them and they may just take your word for it, especially if the new one seems to be contacting them from the same location as your old one.

Your account already has a MAK assigned, and any and all TiVos on that account will be informed of that number.

If and when you install the TiVo Desktop program on a computer, you'll need to enter the MAK, which you can get from the system info page in the menus or from going online to TiVo and logging onto your account.

I suggest that you set aside a fair amount of hard drive space on the computer in the form of a separate partition, formatted NTFS, for Desktop to actually copy shows to. It can be on a separate hard drive if you wish and can afford one.

Desktop itself can install to your C: drive, in the "Program Files" folder, whether it's NT or FAT32, but FAT32 has a file size limitation that will turn a 2 hour show at best quality into a movie with the last 5 minutes missing.

NTFS avoids that.

Desktop creates a "My TiVo Recordings" folder, but there's a place in its menus where you can tell it to use a different location for that folder. You should also tell it to put its cache folder there.

If you screw up, you can uninstall and try again before you actually start copying shows. Desktop calls it transferring, but it's really copying, it doesn't erase the original.

If you're going to copy shows from one TiVo to another, I recommend using Desktop as an intermediary because that preserves more of the meta-data that goes along with the show, like the date when you originally recorded it and the stuff you see when you hit the "Info" button.

You only get one MAK per account, you will only have one account, and all of the TiVos on that account will be assigned that one MAK, and any and all computers on your home network running TiVo Desktop will need that same MAK entered when you install Desktop on them.

That one MAK is what tells the TiVos and the computers running Desktop that they're allowed to talk to each other.

I can hook you up with a clean 540 image, and direct you to clean copies of MFS Live, WinMFS, and Desktop.

As far as I know no one has gone to the trouble to produce infected verisons.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

unitron said:


> I suggest that you set aside a fair amount of hard drive space on the computer in the form of a separate partition, formatted NTFS, for Desktop to actually copy shows to. It can be on a separate hard drive if you wish and can afford one.


But not on another computer.



unitron said:


> Desktop creates a "My TiVo Recordings" folder, but there's a place in its menus where you can tell it to use a different location for that folder. You should also tell it to put its cache folder there.


But only if it is on the same computer running TDT. If one has a NAS or a LAN server, TDT is hosed.



unitron said:


> If you're going to copy shows from one TiVo to another, I recommend using Desktop as an intermediary because that preserves more of the meta-data that goes along with the show, like the date when you originally recorded it and the stuff you see when you hit the "Info" button.


With the caveat there is a huge time penalty. TiVoToGo and GoBack are quite slow on S3 TiVos, but they are slow as molasses on an S2. MRV is at least a bit faster. GoBack with h.264 coding on an S3 is much, much faster, but both avoid the use of TDT. I really have very little issue with living without the extra metadata.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm not sure we need to start off by throwing the OP in the deep end.

Baby steps.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

unitron said:


> I can hook you up with a clean 540 image, and direct you to clean copies of MFS Live, WinMFS, and Desktop.


What is a 540 image? Right now I'm not going to do any upgrade. I have to work on some other stuff first. But maybe if I reach that point I would ask about how to do that and where to get MFS Live. When you say Desktop I take it you mean Tivo Desktop? I have that running now. What I'd like to do first is be able to transfer my Tivo recordings to a format I can stream on my PS3 and burn to DVD on my PC.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> What is a 540 image? Right now I'm not going to do any upgrade. I have to work on some other stuff first. But maybe if I reach that point I would ask about how to do that and where to get MFS Live. When you say Desktop I take it you mean Tivo Desktop? I have that running now. What I'd like to do first is be able to transfer my Tivo recordings to a format I can stream on my PS3 and burn to DVD on my PC.


You have a TCD540040, which is the model casually referred to as the 540, which can actually mean the one with the 40GB, 80GB, or 120GB hard drive.

You can, before your 40GB drive goes bad, use MFS Live, or WinMFS, to make a truncated backup of the drive, which won't have any of the shows but will have the operating system and TiVo software, and whatever settings you've established, like zip code, area code, cable company, whether it's set up for satellite or not, and I think season passes, thumb ratings, favorites, and stuff like that, and it'll have a record of the TiVo Service Number of your unit.

If you use someone else's image, because you didn't make your own and your hard drive went bad and now it's too late, you'll have to go through Guided Setup all over again.

Also, whatever size stock TiVo drive the image was made from is the smallest size drive onto which you can restore that image.

For example, if you image your 40GB* drive, you can restore onto a 60GB, but if you get an image made from someone's TCD540080, no go.

If I capitalize Desktop, at least around here, then I'm almost certainly talking about the free version of the TiVo Desktop program.

You should go to mfslive.org, read everything about MFS Live and about WinMFS, at least the white background instructional pages, and also go to the download link, which'll take you over to the forum pages, where you can find the link for the bootable cd image for MFS Live v1.4

Even if you don't own a TiVo you should download that and burn, as an image, yourself a copy onto cd-r.

It's got stuff that lets you play with hard drives.

You should also get WinMFS

Both WinMFS and MFS Live can make and restore TiVo backups, but not each others, so use both and make 2 different backups so that you can restore with either program.

Once you use TiVo Desktop to copy your recordings to the computer, you can, I am told by others here and have no reason to doubt, convert them into "un-tivo'ed" files.

I don't think I can give you beter answers than you've received here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=490550

I will say this about Desktop.

You should have a (large) partition that's formatted NTFS and not FAT32 to put the My TiVo Recordings folder in/on, because FAT32's file size limitation turns a 2 hour movie into a movie missing the last 5 minutes.

When you install Desktop it automatically wants to put everything on the C: drive just like everything else that has anything to do with Windows does, but in the options you can change where it keeps that folder.

Also, once shows have been copied by Desktop to the MTR folder, you can move them to other, perhaps larger, locations, and put a shortcut to those locations inside the MTR folder.

At least as long as that other location is on a local hard drive (one actually hooked directly to the computer running TDT).

Perhaps you should PM or email me a list of your TiVo and computer hardware and an idea of what kind of budget, if any, you have to make changes and improvements, and I can better advise you.

*some of the Series 2 TiVos used Maxtor brand hard drives that had a slightly larger LBA number for the same nominal size than other brands, so, for example, my TCD540040 image won't restore onto a 40GB Western Digital or Seagate, because it expects a little more room.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

unitron said:


> rt


If and when I upgrade my Tivo hard drive, I wouldn't mind going through guided setup but I would worry if I didn't have the Tivo Service Number and I needed to have it for some reason. I'm assuming the OS and Tivo Software would install the latest version after setup.

I cannot do this right now because I have to fix my computer first and have other crap to work on unfortunately. Thank you for your help.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> If and when I upgrade my Tivo hard drive, I wouldn't mind going through guided setup but I would worry if I didn't have the Tivo Service Number and I needed to have it for some reason. I'm assuming the OS and Tivo Software would install the latest version after setup.
> 
> I cannot do this right now because I have to fix my computer first and have other crap to work on unfortunately. Thank you for your help.


The TiVo already knows what its TiVo Service Number is.

At least the motherboard does, and the hard drive will learn it from the motherboard.

TiVos, at least S2s, have both a unique serial number and a TiVo Service Number.

The TiVo Service Number (which is printed on the sticker on the back of the TiVo where the AC line cord plugs in) is unique to each TiVo, and, up through the original Series 3, was on a separate crypto chip which, with some difficulty, could be moved from one motherboard to another of the same overall model, and since the servers at TiVo keep track of what kind of, if any, subscription a particular TiVo has by that number, you can move a lifetime sub from one motherboard to another of the same model.

Or you can move the TSN of a non-lifetimed board so as to still be able to access 2TB worth of recordings, like I had to.

For instance, your 540 would have the same motherboard regardless of whether it originally came with a 40GB, 80GB, or 120GB hard drive, so any of those would be crypto chip transplant candidates.

The MAK is a unique number assigned to your overall TiVo account, is not located on the motherboard, and is shared by all the TiVos on that account and any computers running TiVo Desktop on your home network.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> The TiVo Service Number (which is printed on the sticker on the back of the TiVo where the AC line cord plugs in) is unique to each TiVo, and, up through the original Series 3, was on a separate crypto chip which, with some difficulty, could be moved from one motherboard to another of the same overall model, and since the servers at TiVo keep track of what kind of, if any, subscription a particular TiVo has by that number, you can move a lifetime sub from one motherboard to another of the same model.


By "original Series 3", do you mean the OLED?

If so, is that implying that it is NOT possible to do that on the TivoHD nor Premiere models?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

mattack said:


> By "original Series 3", do you mean the OLED?
> 
> If so, is that implying that it is NOT possible to do that on the TivoHD nor Premiere models?


Yepper.

The TCD648 still had the separate crypto chip.

Starting with the 652 and 658, the TSN is built into a bigger chip along with a bunch of other stuff, and it's on there in such a way that it's cheaper to buy a new TiVo and lifetime sub than the equipment needed to do the removals and replacements.

I think the "prom day" guy over on the "other site" discusses it some.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

Just to touch on the original question: to get the longest life out of a hard drive, don't turn it off. Power cycles are hard on it. Other than that, leave it alone. I don't know of any specs that give a reduced life for a hard drive that just does a lot of read/writes.

As for doing a restart before pulling the plug, it certainly doesn't hurt, but I don't believe it accomplishes anything either. Doing a restart doesn't close programs or files first -- it just does a hard reset. The filesystem for programs is designed to not need cleaning up, and the only Linux filesystem that is writable will be rebuilt if it's corrupt.

And motherboard failures are quite rare. The only significant numbers were of modem failures on the original Series 1. Power supply or hard drive is all that's likely to fail, and both can be repaired without affecting your subscription.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

alansh said:


> Just to touch on the original question: to get the longest life out of a hard drive, don't turn it off. Power cycles are hard on it. Other than that, leave it alone. I don't know of any specs that give a reduced life for a hard drive that just does a lot of read/writes.
> 
> As for doing a restart before pulling the plug, it certainly doesn't hurt, but I don't believe it accomplishes anything either. Doing a restart doesn't close programs or files first -- it just does a hard reset. The filesystem for programs is designed to not need cleaning up, and the only Linux filesystem that is writable will be rebuilt if it's corrupt.
> 
> And motherboard failures are quite rare. The only significant numbers were of modem failures on the original Series 1. Power supply or hard drive is all that's likely to fail, and both can be repaired without affecting your subscription.


Motherboard failures are very rare on the TiVo, especially compared to power supply and hard drive (and if not for "capacitor plague", power supply failures would be a lot less frequent), but since the failure of the internal modem on the S1s could be dealt with (at least one guy offered parts, and there was always the external modem option), it's not quite the same as an out and out "doesn't work anymore" motherboard.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

Does the time shift recording that goes on actually record to the hard drive or does it just keep it in RAM?
I have a hard time believing that a Tivo that runs for over 10 years recording time shift recording to hard drive would last that long. It is one thing for a hard drive to be spinning all the time, but a whole other thing to be recording 365 days a year 24 hours the time lapse for 30 minutes that takes place all the time.

You _*can *_stop the 30 minute time lapse 'recording' by going into some of the setting menus, but I don't know how long it will stay in that none recording mode. 
Other brands of DVRs actually spin down the the hard drive when you turn them 'off'.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

It records it to the hard drive. Hard drives have no problem reading and writing for ten years. It is nothing unusual. Hard drives can last a lot longer than that. Of course other factors can cause a hard drive to die a lot sooner. 

My six DirecTV TiVos that I gave to some friend's are still running with no issues with upgraded hard drives. And they are around eight and ten years old since the drives were upgraded.

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

replaytv said:


> Does the time shift recording that goes on actually record to the hard drive or does it just keep it in RAM?
> I have a hard time believing that a Tivo that runs for over 10 years recording time shift recording to hard drive would last that long. It is one thing for a hard drive to be spinning all the time, but a whole other thing to be recording 365 days a year 24 hours the time lapse for 30 minutes that takes place all the time.
> 
> You _*can *_stop the 30 minute time lapse 'recording' by going into some of the setting menus, but I don't know how long it will stay in that none recording mode.
> Other brands of DVRs actually spin down the the hard drive when you turn them 'off'.


The original S1s didn't have enough RAM to do that.

The new ones probably don't either.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

MojoB said:


> Is there a way to stop Tivo from automatically recording Live TV? I have an old Tivo, can't afford a new one, and don't want to wear out the hard drive with it constantly recording.
> 
> TCD540040, has lifetime, 40 hour.


You can easily find a TCD540040 for sale on craig's list as low as $10 - $20. Just buy one and keep it in the attic for spare parts. The parts cost next to nothing. It's easier just to replace them when they go bad.

It doesn't happen often, but every once in a while I will turn on the TV and find see a program on that I didn't record, but would like to watch. Since Tivo was recording on the buffer, I can go back to the beginning and watch it.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

replaytv said:


> Does the time shift recording that goes on actually record to the hard drive or does it just keep it in RAM?


At roughly 200M per minute (for two tuners), or 300G per half hour? In a machine with 128M of RAM? Hardly.



replaytv said:


> I have a hard time believing that a Tivo that runs for over 10 years recording time shift recording to hard drive would last that long.


Why would you find that hard to believe? I doubt the average TiVo will last quite that long, or at least not much longer than that, but certainly many TiVos will. My S1 lasted 12 years.



replaytv said:


> It is one thing for a hard drive to be spinning all the time, but a whole other thing to be recording 365 days a year 24 hours the time lapse for 30 minutes that takes place all the time.


Again, why would you think that? The spindle bearings are under a much greater load than the recording head mechanism, and are much more susceptible to heat stress. That said, it is true the drive will be somewhat hotter when continuously seeking all over the platters than when idle or seeking sequentially, but the additional heat load is not huge nor hugely significant to the first order.



replaytv said:


> Other brands of DVRs actually spin down the the hard drive when you turn them 'off'.


Name one, please. Then please provide evidence that brand lasts longer than a TiVo.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

unitron said:


> The original S1s didn't have enough RAM to do that.
> 
> The new ones probably don't either.


'Not even close. In fact, further away. The newer TiVos only have a bit more RAM, and are recording at a much greater rate than the S1.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

I have a tendency to zone out a lot or stop to do something else when watching recordings. When you press rewind/pause/fast forward continuously is it only accessing different data from the RAM or is the hard drive spinning to different areas? I tend to often rewind anywhere from a couple seconds to 5 minutes.

I don't understand why Tivo's don't have a power button so you can let the thing rest at least every now and then given all this real time recording. Even standby doesn't stop it, what is the point of standby?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

MojoB said:


> what is the point of standby?


It keeps emergency alerts from ruining your recordings...


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

steve614 said:


> It keeps emergency alerts from ruining your recordings...


Okay, what was the point of it on S1s and S2s?


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

unitron said:


> Okay, what was the point of it on S1s and S2s?


They were ahead of their time.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

WhiskeyTango said:


> They were ahead of their time.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> Okay, what was the point of it on S1s and S2s?


One reason is for people who had(have?) the cable daisy chained to the TV.

Personally, I really liked this, though I admit I don't think I used it on the Tivo.. I used a 
similar capability on one of my VCRs. You could turn off the VCR's output on coax, so simply have the cable plugged into the VCR then plugged into the TV. You weren't (necessarily) using coax from the VCR to the TV to watch on the TV (of course then you only get mono audio), but you could use the TV's tuner to watch something else while recording, for example.

Even if they were 'just' internal splitters (which I guess is what the VCR did), it tremendously reduced cable clutter.. and I should know, with a zillion things hooked up to one TV.. (though I purposely have more clutter than I "need", since I essentially use my Toshiba XS32 as the "video switcher" the vast majority of the time, and use the TV's other inputs only sometimes..)


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

Does anyone know about my other question - When you press rewind/pause/fast forward continuously and let it rewind/fast forward through 5-10 minutes or stay paused for 5-10 minutes is it only accessing different data from the RAM or is the hard drive spinning to different areas?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MojoB said:


> Does anyone know about my other question - When you press rewind/pause/fast forward continuously and let it rewind/fast forward through 5-10 minutes or stay paused for 5-10 minutes is it only accessing different data from the RAM or is the hard drive spinning to different areas?


Well, first of all, almost no data from the video is kept in RAM. Only enough is buffered to allow for smooth playback given the somewhat uneven nature of I/O on a computer. I don't know how much precisely, but it is quite possible it is less than 1 second worth of data. Of course, some is also buffered on the hard drive. Some modern hard drives have as much cache memory on them as some TiVos have in total. Indeed, there are a few SSD cached hard drives that have considerably more. As I pointed out above, one minute of recorded 1080i data on a TiVo HD requires nearly twice as much RAM space as the THD has installed.

Secondly, you seem to have a bit of an odd idea of how a hard drive works. The drive does not "spin to different areas". As long as the drive has power and is not in sleep mode, the motor spins the platter spindle at a constant rate. Typical rates these days are 5400 RPM, 72000 RPM, or 10,000 RPM, depending on the drive. The higher the spindle speed, the faster, generally speaking, data can be read and written on the drive. Most hard drives have more than one recording surface (or platter). Each platter has its own read-write head floating over its surface as the platter spins, but all the heads are part of a single servo arm that moves the heads in unison back and forth across the drive surfaces. Looking at it geometrically, a specific registered position of the servo arm defines a ring, or "track" on the platter surface. A specific set of tracks all put together can be thought to form a cylinder of a specific radius intersecting all the platters. Each track is divided up into a specific number of sectors and each sector is given a number. Each individual sector on the drive, then, can be specified by giving its cylinder number, head number, and sector number. When a seek command is issued, the drive checks to see where its servo arm is located. If the servo arm is not on the requested cylinder, then it is moved until the heads are all hovering over the surface at the requested cylinder. As each sector then passes underneath the heads, the drive takes notice of the passing sectors until the requested one passes underneath the heads, at which time the drive begins reading from or writing to the requested sectors. Typically this will continue on one read/write head until the last sector of the track is reached, at which point the next head takes over the read or write operation, until either the last sector of the cylinder has been addressed or all the requested data has been handled. Subsequent seeks will cause the servo arm to jump back and forth across the platters, servicing each request.

At this point one should note a few items:

1. Reading and writing do not affect the spindle motor or its bearings. Whether the drive is continuously reading and writing or never reading or writing at all, the stress on the drive motor and bearings is essentially constant.

2. The servo arm is very light in mass. There is no reason for it to have a lot of mass, and indeed the smaller its mass, the faster it can move across the platters, reducing seek time. Consequently, the stress on the arm mechanics and its bearings is rather small. In short, it is a very durable mechanism under normal operating conditions, even under high data loads.

3. While the servo arm has the ability to swing wildly back and forth across the platters from the very first to the very last cylinder at high speed, during normal data operations - especially video reads and writes - the actual size of the excursions is generally much more limited. More often than not, any given seek is usually to an adjacent cylinder or at least to a cylinder close by. This has the effect of reducing the actual stresses on the servo arm mechanism to well below the maximum possible operational stress. Try listening to a hard drive under normal video read / write activity and then try running a random seek benchmark some time to see what I mean.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> Does anyone know about my other question - When you press rewind/pause/fast forward continuously and let it rewind/fast forward through 5-10 minutes or stay paused for 5-10 minutes is it only accessing different data from the RAM or is the hard drive spinning to different areas?


*Edit to add* that if lrhorer's post had landed in time for me to see it before submitting mine, I wouldn't have bothered with this one.

The hard drive always spins in the same place, but the head assembly seeks at different spots on the platter stack, depending on what it's sent to get, and I suspect there's not enough RAM on the mobo to hold very much video at all so I expect almost everything is being fetched from the drive and put into the RAM that serves the Digital to Analog converters that feed the video and audio outputs.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MojoB said:


> I don't understand why Tivo's don't have a power button so you can let the thing rest at least every now and then given all this real time recording.


Why? What purpose would it serve?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

lrhorer said:


> Why? What purpose would it serve?


It would allow people to pay tribute to the pagan god of token environmentalism.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lrhorer said:


> Why? What purpose would it serve?


It would save a significant amount of power for the ~18-19 hours a day (more on weekends) that it's not _actively_ recording something for me or I'm not watching it (it recording something for me and me watching it are mostly aligned, at least on weekdays.. even though of course I'm watching something PREVIOUSLY recorded to skip ads).


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## Mark Guan (Aug 25, 2012)

> It would save a significant amount of power for the ~18-19 hours a day (more on weekends) that it's not _actively_ recording something for me or I'm not watching it (it recording something for me and me watching it are mostly aligned, at least on weekdays.. even though of course I'm watching something PREVIOUSLY recorded to skip ads).


+1. Even if each Tivo can only save a few watts a day, with millions of Tivos that is still a huge number. I would like to see Tivo Inc become more environmental friendly and put Tivo to "sleep" when not in use in order to save energy.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

lrhorer said:


> Name one, please. Then please provide evidence that brand lasts longer than a TiVo.


As far as DVRs that spin down when not being used, Polaroid,Panasonic, Toshiba(non tivo), and others all spin down, but I have no evidence that they last longer, as I never used them long enough.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

unitron said:


> Okay, what was the point of it on S1s and S2s?


On the old S1 and S2 DTiVos Standby actually would stop the buffering.

But oddly wouldn't _empty_ the buffer. 
So if you put it in standby for 30 minutes, then woke it up and paused it for 15 minutes you'd could have a buffer with the first and last 15 minutes of an hour long show, seperated by a bit of a visual glitch. (no discontinuity in the green buffer bar; nothing to indicate that there was a gap in the recording from standby) 
It was a little bizzare


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Mark Guan said:


> +1. Even if each Tivo can only save a few watts a day, with millions of Tivos that is still a huge number. I would like to see Tivo Inc become more environmental friendly and put Tivo to "sleep" when not in use in order to save energy.


There is no such thing as "watts a day". It is just "watts", a measure of energy used (in Joules) per second. Watt-hours per day would also be a valid measure of power, albeit a rather goofy one. Spinning down the hard drive when not recording will save perhaps 10 watts, or about $6 - $7 a year in energy. By comparison, my air conditioners in my house cost well over $5000 a year to run.


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## trubel (Sep 6, 2008)

MojoB said:


> Is there a way to stop Tivo from automatically recording Live TV? I have an old Tivo, can't afford a new one, and don't want to wear out the hard drive with it constantly recording.


Try turning it off.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

unitron said:


> *Edit to add* that if lrhorer's post had landed in time for me to see it before submitting mine, I wouldn't have bothered with this one.
> 
> The hard drive always spins in the same place, but the head assembly seeks at different spots on the platter stack, depending on what it's sent to get, and I suspect there's not enough RAM on the mobo to hold very much video at all so I expect almost everything is being fetched from the drive and put into the RAM that serves the Digital to Analog converters that feed the video and audio outputs.


That's what I meant, worded incorrectly, when I said the hard drive spin to different areas I meant the head thing. I was just wondering if I'm putting significant "wear and tear" on my hard drives whether it be tivo, computer, etc by constantly pausing/rewinding/fast forwarding. I generally pause/ff/rewind every couple minutes while watching programs, maybe 20-30 times per hour.



lrhorer said:


> Why? What purpose would it serve?


I thought it might prolong it's life, if not the hard drive, then at least the power supply.



trubel said:


> Try turning it off.


I'm still using the Tivo and turning it on and off all the time would put even more wear and tear on the Tivo, and especially because that requires actually unplugging it.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

MojoB said:


> That's what I meant, worded incorrectly, when I said the hard drive spin to different areas I meant the head thing. I was just wondering if I'm putting significant "wear and tear" on my hard drives whether it be tivo, computer, etc by constantly pausing/rewinding/fast forwarding. I generally pause/ff/rewind every couple minutes while watching programs, maybe 20-30 times per hour.
> 
> I thought it might prolong it's life, if not the hard drive, then at least the power supply.
> 
> I'm still using the Tivo and turning it on and off all the time would put even more wear and tear on the Tivo, and especially because that requires actually unplugging it.


The TiVo is designed to be plugged in and left that way.

Plug it in and leave it that way.

There's not much in the way of consumer electronics these days that's designed to have power completely disconnected, rather than being put into some sort of low power comsumption standby.

It's been some time since the power button on a computer actually disconnected and reconnected the AC line from the power supply (although anyone who manufactures an ATX supply without a switch on the supply itself should be horse whipped and count themselves lucky not to have been taken out and shot).

Having electricity applied when an instant ago it wasn't there is generally harder on electronics than being left on, and the more power cycles the sooner the item is likely to break down.

There are hard drives that have been running for years because they've been kept running instead of being started and stopped.

What's the economic and ecological comparison between using extra electricity on the one hand and on the other hand replacing equipment more often, and filling landfills more often, and using more conflict minerals? Beats me.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MojoB said:


> That's what I meant, worded incorrectly, when I said the hard drive spin to different areas I meant the head thing. I was just wondering if I'm putting significant "wear and tear" on my hard drives whether it be tivo, computer, etc by constantly pausing/rewinding/fast forwarding. I generally pause/ff/rewind every couple minutes while watching programs, maybe 20-30 times per hour.


I expect not.



MojoB said:


> I thought it might prolong it's life, if not the hard drive, then at least the power supply.


Unless the device has something like the filament in an incandescent bulb, by a wide margin most devices will last longer if submitted to constant loads well within the limnits of their design parameters. Starting and stopping devices tends to be rather hard on them.



MojoB said:


> I'm still using the Tivo and turning it on and off all the time would put even more wear and tear on the Tivo, and especially because that requires actually unplugging it.


Continuous normal use will more than likely obtain the greatest longevity for the unit. That doesn't guarantee it won't fail inside of 10 days, but such failure is probably not hastened by continuous use.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

When a item first is connected to power the most strain takes place because the most current flows to get everything going. After that only a small trickle of current flows. Add to the fact that usually that happens when the power returns after a power outage, so everything else is coming up and causing the voltage to sag. That is why it is best to have all your equipment on a battery back up that not only gets things running for at least awhile, but also the batteries protect the devices by absorbing surges. . And if not that, then unplug everything until the power returns for good and then replug everything in. 
It is good to have everything at least on a surge protector if nothing else, as most surge protector manufactures guarantee to replace items that are damaged if the protector doesn't work.


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## MojoB (Jun 1, 2012)

replaytv said:


> When a item first is connected to power the most strain takes place because the most current flows to get everything going. After that only a small trickle of current flows. Add to the fact that usually that happens when the power returns after a power outage, so everything else is coming up and causing the voltage to sag. That is why it is best to have all your equipment on a battery back up that not only gets things running for at least awhile, but also the batteries protect the devices by absorbing surges. . And if not that, then unplug everything until the power returns for good and then replug everything in.
> It is good to have everything at least on a surge protector if nothing else, as most surge protector manufactures guarantee to replace items that are damaged if the protector doesn't work.


I've always unplugged all my electrical devices whenever there is a thunderstorm or very bad weather. I do have them on surge protectors but I don't know how many surges those protectors have gone through and how good they are anymore. And someone in my house loves to bring home surge protectors they find regardless of if they've been used and for how long. Those battery backup things are way too expensive and they never seem to stay very good, battery usually dies out too quickly. Although I unplug everything, I usually ignore the tv cables though.


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