# no audio over HDMI??



## byron14150 (Oct 12, 2006)

new to this forum, so maybe its been asked and asnwered... rooted around for an hour or so and didn't find it.

Connecting an HD S3 to an HP Pavilion 65-inch MD6580n 1080p DLP HDTV with HMDI yields viedo but no audio -- on any channle or either CC.

The TV also has secondary HDMI IN with adjacent audio connectors intended for a converted connection from DVI-D out (which needs audio run separately).

HD S3 to HDMI-2 with HD S3 audio from the component audio connects to the TV adjacent audio connectors does work -- on any channel and both cards.

My intent was to go HD S3 to TV using HDMI-1 (I have other plans for the HDMI-2 IN), but no luck.

I assume the HD S3 is intended to put audio on the HDMI out link.

BTW, I have no other components with HDMI in or out to check either end of the link independently.

AS one might expect, TiVo support say the problem obviously lies with the domain of the TV, and visa vesa.

Has anyone else seen this issue?


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## jplanza (Oct 12, 2006)

Byron,

Yes, I have seen this before. When I first connected my S3 to the TV using HDMI, the audio worked fine. However, I noticed that I wasn't getting Dolby Digital signaling on programs that claimed to provide it. Before I had a chance to call TiVo and ask about this, I found that the HDMI output was no longer providing any audio signal. I still haven't contacted TiVo because my solution was to re-cable and use the optical audio output to connect to my home theater system.

So, to try and help in your discussion with TiVo, mine is one example where HDMI worked for a time and then stopped working. Have you ever heard audio via the HDMI output?

It sounds like I need to give TiVo a call now too...

-JPL


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## missiontortilla (Sep 26, 2006)

Are you trying to listen to the sound from the TV's speakers, or are you trying to pass the audio from the TV to a receiver? If you are trying to do the passthru some TVs do not pass the dolby digital signal through, only stereo PCM. This is the case with my TV, audio works fine over HDMI if I use the TVs speakers, but to get dobly digital I am connecting the TiVo straight to the receiver with an optical cable.


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## byron14150 (Oct 12, 2006)

missiontortilla said:


> Are you trying to listen to the sound from the TV's speakers, or are you trying to pass the audio from the TV to a receiver? If you are trying to do the passthru some TVs do not pass the dolby digital signal through, only stereo PCM. This is the case with my TV, audio works fine over HDMI if I use the TVs speakers, but to get dobly digital I am connecting the TiVo straight to the receiver with an optical cable.


sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. When I connect the HDMI OUT from the S3 to the HDMI IN on TV, I get no audio. It's a straightforward simple hookup. There is NO other equipment involved.


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## kenjamd (Oct 13, 2006)

This sounds similar to what many folks see with upconverting DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-Ray players. "Most" televisions that have HDMI inputs don't support HDMI 1.3, which allows for multi-channel audio (up to 7.1). They were designed to work with HDMI 1.2, which only allows 2-channel PCM audio. HDMI is still evolving and adding features, so it is important to keep track of your equipment's capability.

With the exception of the Comcast DVR, we have replaced every component in our home theater (maybe it didn't qualify for the title before, but I beleive it does now) in the last year. I had been under the same impression that I would be able to connect all of my AV sources to the TV via HDMI, and then send multichannel audio to the HT receiver from the TV. I was shocked to find that it couldn't work that way yet. I get a constant reminder of this failure (inaccurate/sly marketing?) when watching DVDs. Because I use HDMI for video, but have selected multi-channel audio output the player flashes an annoying "HDMI Audio not supported" at every menu change and layer change during a movie.

Bottom line, if you want to hear sound from an HDMI source on your TV's speakers, you probably need to set the Tivo to output in stereo, rather than multichannel.


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## Akubra (Oct 13, 2006)

My understanding of HDMI 1.2 is that it is capable of passing current forms of multi-channel audio (MCA). So if you have a home theater speaker system, you can connect the S3's HDMI 1.2 output to an HDMI 1.2 input on your receiver/preamp, and MCA will come out of your speakers. Same result when connecting a DVD player to a receiver/preamp. At least, that's what I've been reading in these forums and others.

If I understand the posts in this thread correctly, TVs with HDMI 1.2 inputs (which I think would include all new models that have an HDMI input) cannot actually use the MCA signal coming over the HDMI? So if via HDMI you directly connect an S3 to a TV, and if the S3 is set to output MCA, you'll get no sound from the TV? To get sound from the TV's speakers via HDMI, you have to set the S3 to output stereo (PCM)?

Can you make that selection just for the HDMI output? Or does the selection affect all outputs? In other words, is it possible to configure the S3 to deliver stereo through the HDMI output but MCA over the optical audio output?


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## byron14150 (Oct 12, 2006)

Akubra said:


> To get sound from the TV's speakers via HDMI, you have to set the S3 to output stereo (PCM)?
> 
> Can you make that selection just for the HDMI output? Or does the selection affect all outputs? In other words, is it possible to configure the S3 to deliver stereo through the HDMI output but MCA over the optical audio output?


I did set the S3 to PCM during part of the debug process -- still no audio over the HDMI link.

BTW, the "techs" at Tivo seem to have no idea what I am talking about and are only vaguely aware of the existence of an HD S3 box. I never had occasion to call TiVo support prior to the S3 aquisition, but I am definitely underwhelmed by their knowledge of their products.


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## BeachGuitar (Apr 8, 2004)

Try changing your tv input mode to something other than hdmi then go back to hdmi and see if it works. I have to do that to mine sometimes.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

The very first time I hooked up my S3 I did so with HDMI. I had no audio at all. But it was during Guided Setup so I thought maybe it was normal. Once I realized it wasn't I cycled the power on both the TiVo and TV and that fixed it.

It's happened once or twice since then too - rebooting the TiVo fixed it.

While watching a recording the other day I started playback after a commercial and it had lost just ONE 'channel' of sound... the voice track! Hitting the 8-sec back button fixed it.

Weird.

However, I love having that single, all-digital connection!


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## byron14150 (Oct 12, 2006)

thanks for the replies...

I connected a Sony DVP-NS75H to HDMI 1 and still got video only from the TV.

Talked with the TV supoprt folks again and downloaded a new BIOS for the TV. Everything works correctly now.

Both audio & video stream to for HDMI 1 & HDMI 2.

For now I have the HD S3 connected to HDMI 1 and Sony connected to HDMI 2. Will likely connect in a Yamaha HTR-6090BL to HDMI 1 and the other other 2 in the 6090 since it has HMDI OUT with 2 HDMI IN ports.


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## knightl (Mar 15, 2006)

jplanza said:


> Byron,
> 
> Yes, I have seen this before. When I first connected my S3 to the TV using HDMI, the audio worked fine. However, I noticed that I wasn't getting Dolby Digital signaling on programs that claimed to provide it. Before I had a chance to call TiVo and ask about this, I found that the HDMI output was no longer providing any audio signal. I still haven't contacted TiVo because my solution was to re-cable and use the optical audio output to connect to my home theater system.
> 
> ...


i have a ysp-1000 connected to my mitsu dlp via the digital output. it works great.
when i added the s3 connected by hdmi i noticed the volume level seems to be lower. i did not notice if the dolby digital light was on on the ysp. do i need to connect optical from the s3 directly to the ysp get my 5.1 surround?


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

byron14150 said:


> Talked with the TV supoprt folks again and downloaded a new BIOS for the TV. Everything works correctly now.


Man, you know you are still in the "early adopter" phase of things when you have to download a new BIOS *for your TV*. That's hard core.


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## knightl (Mar 15, 2006)

byron14150 said:


> thanks for the replies...
> 
> I connected a Sony DVP-NS75H to HDMI 1 and still got video only from the TV.
> 
> ...


so, did this bios upgrade have anything to do with hdmi1.2 to hdmi1.3 as talked about earlier in this thread?


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## knightl (Mar 15, 2006)

knightl said:


> i have a ysp-1000 connected to my mitsu dlp via the digital output. it works great.
> when i added the s3 connected by hdmi i noticed the volume level seems to be lower. i did not notice if the dolby digital light was on on the ysp. do i need to connect optical from the s3 directly to the ysp get my 5.1 surround?


an update, my ysp-1000 displays pcm instead of the dolby digital symbol
when viewing high def 5.1 shows.....


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

knightl said:


> an update, my ysp-1000 displays pcm instead of the dolby digital symbol
> when viewing high def 5.1 shows.....


Here it is 2 years later and I am seeing the exact same problem with a TivoHD/Sony STR-DA5300-ES Rcvr (Brand new).

Connecting the Tivo to the Rcvr, then to HDMI on TV (Mits WD-63525)

The HDMI video is working fine. But audio, just getting PCM 48k sound
thru HDMI and no blue MCA light. Tried rebooting Rcvr, Tivo, etc. Nothing changes

No dolby digital, etc, and I know it is there because my CblBox shows it on programs my Tivo just sends pcm stereo.

Any ideas on updating this thread?


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

How do you have the audio output settings on TiVo? DD or DD-to-PCM?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

philhu said:


> Here it is 2 years later and I am seeing the exact same problem with a TivoHD/Sony STR-DA5300-ES Rcvr (Brand new).
> 
> Connecting the Tivo to the Rcvr, then to HDMI on TV (Mits WD-63525)
> 
> ...


If you have your AVR set to send sound to your TV, the TV's EDID info sends information all the way back to the Tivo, which the Tivo interprets as "send PCM only".

If you set your AVR to not send sound to your TV, you'll get the proper DD on your AVR to your "real" speakers.

You have to choose - DD and real speakers, or PCM and TV speakers.

It makes sense actually, it's just weird that Tivo auto-converts to PCM now, when it didn't do that a few releases ago.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

jrm01 said:


> How do you have the audio output settings on TiVo? DD or DD-to-PCM?


I have tried both ways, but I assume DD is the correct setting.

DD to PCM would do what I am seeing, correct?


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> If you have your AVR set to send sound to your TV, the TV's EDID info sends information all the way back to the Tivo, which the Tivo interprets as "send PCM only".
> 
> If you set your AVR to not send sound to your TV, you'll get the proper DD on your AVR to your "real" speakers.
> 
> ...


Well, it is a bit more complicated. It is doing this on 3 different boxes. A TivoHD, a Moto cablebox and a Dish HD Rcvr.

All 3 will do MCA at the AVR when connected component/coax or spdif to it, but using HDMI, all 3 are doing PCM-48k only. If what you say is the standard though, it does make sense if the TV is sending its capabilities back thru the AVR to any source, which would be TV speakers only (Stereo).

So the big question, how do I tell my AVR, Sony STR-DA5300ES, to NOT send audio to the TV over the HDMI?

**EDIT** Just looked, I have it set to AMP only for sound already making the sound just come from the stereo speakers, not the TV, so this is NOT the problem... 

As an aside, I found a box that takes component video and coax digital audio and makes an HDMI signal from it. If I can't make this work correctly, maybe that would solve my problem. Send the HDMI from this box to my AVR instead?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

philhu said:


> Well, it is a bit more complicated. It is doing this on 3 different boxes. A TivoHD, a Moto cablebox and a Dish HD Rcvr.
> 
> All 3 will do MCA at the AVR when connected component/coax or spdif to it, but using HDMI, all 3 are doing PCM-48k only. If what you say is the standard thought, it does make sense if the TV is sending its capabilities back thru the AVR to any source, which would be TV speakers only (Stereo).
> 
> So the big question, how do I tell my AVR, Sony STR-DA5300ES, to NOT send audio to the TV over the HDMI?


Right... HDMI has a negotiation, where SPDIF doesn't. Just set your AVR to not send sound to the TV, and you'll be set.

Or just use SPDIF and not worry about it. No sound difference, just more cables.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Right... HDMI has a negotiation, where SPDIF doesn't. Just set your AVR to not send sound to the TV, and you'll be set.
> 
> Or just use SPDIF and not worry about it. No sound difference, just more cables.


The problem is that I *AM* telling the receiver to NOT send sound to the TV.
The TV speakers have nothing coming out of them

But it is the right track. I pulled the hdmi from the AVR to the TV, and sure enough, the MCA light and sounds came on

So how do I get the AVR to ignore the tv HDMI audio negotiation? Or block it from the tv?

I can't run any component or any spdif to the TV, way too far away and HDMI is all that is run in the walls and it works fine except this sound negotiation.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

That receiver had several problems with the audio over hdmi (although none exactly as you describe). Sony released a firmware updat in Feb. You may want to check it out here:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item.pl?mdl=STRDA5300ES&news_id=252


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

jrm01 said:


> That receiver had several problems with the audio over hdmi (although none exactly as you describe). Sony released a firmware updat in Feb. You may want to check it out here:
> 
> http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item.pl?mdl=STRDA5300ES&news_id=252


None of those are symptoms of what I see

-and-

My receiver is newer than that and had the latest firmware. I only bought it in June'08

It is interesting, someone at work is seeing the exact problem with a PS3 connected to a surround rcvr and their tv all by hdmi.

Their surround system is doing stereo only also, They pulled the stereo to tv hdmi, and immediately MCA audio came out!

Now in their case, there is no was to even tell the 'cheaper' stereo to not send sound to the TV, which would be why it negotiates to the weakest link, the tv stereo speakers, and pretty much, confirms the hdmi negotiation chain I am seeing.

But in my case, I TOLD the rcvr to NOT send sound to the TV! It doesn't but still reports the TV Sound capabilities. It sure sounds like an obvious firmware bug in the 5300.

What I've done to test this theory is buy a f-hdmi to dvi-m convertor and a dvi-f to hdmi-m one.
Combined together, with an hdmi cable connected should yield video and no audio, since DVI does not do audio. So video negotiation will happen, but audio will be blocked.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Or get another receiver. I've never had any problems with HDMI audio with the three denon HDMI receivers I've owned the past few years. And there especially shouldn't be any problems with legacy DD from the TiVo over HDMI.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

ok, update

I turned off the hdmi control...nothing

I bought the dvi-hdmi, and hdmi-dvi adapters.

Plugged them in,

rcvr--hdmi--------------dvi--dvi-------------hdmi--tv

That should remove the audio, but it didn't.

Still linear pcm-48k only. Pull the hdmi/dvi from tv, nice full dolby digital 3/2.1

So the receiver definitely is reading the tv audio setting over hdmi even though I said to NOT use the tv speakers.

Where do I go from here? This is a deal breaker for me. Everything is now
in as hdmi, so I can't go to component to the tv, because the 5300 doesn't translate hdmi back to component.

Does anyone have any suggestions, I am getting desperate



aaronwt said:


> Or get another receiver. I've never had any problems with HDMI audio with the three denon HDMI receivers I've owned the past few years. And there especially shouldn't be any problems with legacy DD from the TiVo over HDMI.


At this point, give me a good denon model and I will seriously consider it. How many hdmi input does it have?

--UPDATE--

I called Sony Customer Service. They tried to tell me that the reason I cannot get MCA blue light sound is because the sound comes from the devie/tivo, into the rcvr, into the tv, which has no way to do digital audio so it comes out of the tv as PCM/48k. What a croak. I told him so and he hung up on me

If that were true, and the sound was somehow magically getting from the receiver where I turned off tv speaker sound and it couldn't decode the signal, HOW would it know how to translate to std stereo PCM? Since when does your tv need to understand dolby digital? That is why you buy an AVR!

It hast to be a bug in their firmware. If TV Speakers is off, then they should NOT be reading the TV capability for HDMI audio, period and should be using the AVR capabilities, but they will never admit that.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

I have Yamaha 863 and have it connected with hdmi Tivo - Recvr - TV. No problems. It has 3 hdmi inputs (hdmi 1.3).


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## MichaelJHuman (Aug 3, 2005)

Just to clarify something someone said...

HDMI supports MPCM in all versions. What HDMI 1.3 added was the ability to bitstream High Bit Rate audio (e.g. DTS-HD Master Audio and TrueHD.) 1.2 added DSD. None of those changes matter to Tivos.


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## Rdian06 (Apr 12, 2008)

philhu said:


> ok, update
> 
> I turned off the hdmi control...nothing
> 
> ...


Sorry if this has already been suggested, or if I'm not fully understanding the problem because I just glanced through the thread.

Can you run a SPDIF optical from the source device to your AVR and then tell your AVR to use the audio from SPDIF input instead of HDMI with the HDMI video input?

Or do you need audio to go all the way to the TV?


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## Aietes (Aug 20, 2008)

I'm pretty sure that this indeed is a TiVO problem. I have both the TiVO and a Playstation 3 hooked up via HDMI to my Samsung LCD TV. I use the optical out of the TV to connect via toslink to the Dolby Decoder. That would be a perfect setup, since that allows me to switch both picture and Dolby sound with the TiVO remote by just changing the TV input. As said, would be. This works perfectly fine with the PS3, but it doesn't work with the TiVO. When I connect the TiVO directly via toslink to the Dolby Decoder, it works fine. If it goes via HDMI through the TV, there is no Dolby getting to the decoder. Since the PS3 works fine, this must be a TiVO problem.

PS: I used the same HDMI cable for testing this, so it's not a wiring problem.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Aietes said:


> I'm pretty sure that this indeed is a TiVO problem. I have both the TiVO and a Playstation 3 hooked up via HDMI to my Samsung LCD TV. I use the optical out of the TV to connect via toslink to the Dolby Decoder. That would be a perfect setup, since that allows me to switch both picture and Dolby sound with the TiVO remote by just changing the TV input. As said, would be. This works perfectly fine with the PS3, but it doesn't work with the TiVO. When I connect the TiVO directly via toslink to the Dolby Decoder, it works fine. If it goes via HDMI through the TV, there is no Dolby getting to the decoder. Since the PS3 works fine, this must be a TiVO problem.
> 
> PS: I used the same HDMI cable for testing this, so it's not a wiring problem.


Samsung TVs (models that I am aware of) do not pass DD 5.1 via their toslink output when the source is HDMI. It only outputs DD 5.1 when source is it's tuner (OTA). Shouldn't be working for PS3 either. What model Samsung?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

philhu said:


> It hast to be a bug in their firmware. If TV Speakers is off, then they should NOT be reading the TV capability for HDMI audio, period and should be using the AVR capabilities, but they will never admit that.


It's not the TV speakers you need to turn off, there should be a setting in the Sony AVR to tell the AVR not to pass sound through to the TV. It has to be a setting in the AVR, not the TV.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Aietes said:


> I'm pretty sure that this indeed is a TiVO problem. I have both the TiVO and a Playstation 3 hooked up via HDMI to my Samsung LCD TV. I use the optical out of the TV to connect via toslink to the Dolby Decoder. That would be a perfect setup, since that allows me to switch both picture and Dolby sound with the TiVO remote by just changing the TV input. As said, would be. This works perfectly fine with the PS3, but it doesn't work with the TiVO. When I connect the TiVO directly via toslink to the Dolby Decoder, it works fine. If it goes via HDMI through the TV, there is no Dolby getting to the decoder. Since the PS3 works fine, this must be a TiVO problem.
> 
> PS: I used the same HDMI cable for testing this, so it's not a wiring problem.


No it is not a tivo problem. You are falling for the same thing I did. HDMI negotiates audio. So it is negotiating with the tv for best sound FROM THE TV, which, is most likely stereo speakers, hence pcm/stereo only. Your PS3 did the same thing. I bet when you set up hdmi on the ps3, it asked if you want to use automatic audio setting, and it selected PCM only. Then you overrode it and selected all the MCA multichannel settings, and that works with the ps3, but there is no way to override the automatic hdmi setting negotiated in the tivo, or my cblbox or my sat box, hence pcm/stereo only.

If you read more, it occurs on my tivohd, my cablebox and a dish network box. All hdmi to the rcvr, all get pcm stereo only unless the tv hdmi cable is unplugged, then it works, full mca blue light stereo, until the tv is plugged in again.

What i think it is doing wrong is reading the tv stereo only capabilities and overriding the AVR capabilities EVEN THOUGH I TOLD THE AVR *NOT* TO OUTPUT AUDIO TO THE TV. I do NOT want stereo directly out to the TV, just video. I told the AVR to do AMP sound only, specifically no tv sound, so the tv should NOT negotiate sound properties. That is why I think it is a bug in the AVR

And yes, I can have the avr use an hdmi for video and optical/coax audio in the avr, I did try it and it works, but it seems messy, since 1 of my boxes has coax, 3 have toslink optical and all 4 are 35 feet from the AVR receiver, making running more cable pretty difficult

What I do not understand is why my hdmi---to dvi converter to dvi converter to hdmi still allowed the negotiation for the audio with the tv to take place? DVI is supposed to be a video-only standard. But it didn't fix my problem.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

pkscout said:


> Man, you know you are still in the "early adopter" phase of things when you have to download a new BIOS *for your TV*. That's hard core.


Worser than that, I noticed that a Sony HDTV came with a printed copy of the GPL (for the photo viewer). I was tempted to write Sony for the source code to the Television.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

philhu,

You seem to have a good grasp on this due to your extensive hands-on experience. Maybe you can explain the one thing that still seems strange. You explained why the PS3 was able to deliver DD5.1 to the TV, but from everything I have read the Samsung TV, even if it received DD5.1 thru the hdmi input would still only deliver two-channel thru it's toslink output (DD only delivered if tuner is source).

Also, do you think it would be different if you used hdmi > converter > dvi cable > converter > hdmi?


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

jrm01 said:


> philhu,
> 
> You seem to have a good grasp on this due to your extensive hands-on experience. Maybe you can explain the one thing that still seems strange. You explained why the PS3 was able to deliver DD5.1 to the TV, but from everything I have read the Samsung TV, even if it received DD5.1 thru the hdmi input would still only deliver two-channel thru it's toslink output (DD only delivered if tuner is source).
> 
> Also, do you think it would be different if you used hdmi > converter > dvi cable > converter > hdmi?


Well, I am not getting dd5.1 thru my tv. My tv is 2 speaker only. Whay I do get is DD 5.1 thru my receiver because the PS3 lets me override the 'standard configuration' that it is getting thru the hdmi cable from the TV. If all devices allowed you to override capabilities and set the formats you want it to send on hdmi, it would be my answer.

Your Samsung seems to have the same problem in a different way. It will only output what it can play inside itself, namely 2 speaker stereo

Your cabling point is good. Putting a real dvi cable in the mix should definitely stop the audio. The convertors are somehow still sending the audio capabilities.

Then of course, my tv is 3 yrs old and maybe IT is supposed to not do audio negotiation when its speakers are turned off.

I am just throwing up straws here


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I had no problem with my Samsung DLP from 2005, or my HP LCD from 2006. But I was also using Denon receivers.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Yes, it does seem yet another SONY HDMI screwup.

I am SURE that the AVR is supposed to NOT get TV capabilities for audio if you turn off the audio to tv function, which they do have in their GUI.

If you are not sending audio to a device, why would you possibly poll/negotiate its capabilities if it is not being used?

This whole thing has really made me upset with Sony and their half-assed products.

I wired hdmi just for this product. And their answer by their CSR really got me mad. Read my previous posts. If what they said was true, the receiver/avr wouldn't work with 80% of the TVs, since most tv's only have 2 speakers and would report that

You buy an AVR to get better sound/multi channel sound, not sound based upon your tv capabilities.

There must be some way to stop the audio negotiation from AVR to tv.

I tried dvi converters, still did the negotiation. I will try a real dvi wire in the mix, but I am not expecting it to work better.

I guess I need a powered box that will take an hdmi signal, strip off the audio, but leave video intact, but I can't find one


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Well, I've done alot of reading.....

I was looking in the DENON 1909 manual, and they describe what I am seeing exactly with HDMI Control, and I quote from their manual, pg 32:

"When the HDMI control function is operating, the setting of the audio playback in the connected TV takes priority"

This is EXACTLY what I am seeing. But my 'HDMI Control (Bravia Sync) is OFF.


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## demon (Nov 15, 2006)

Unfortunately the idea about using a DVI cable to remove HDMI audio won't work. There aren't separate pins for audio - the audio is multiplexed into the same bitstream as the video data, and as long as both ends negotiate a common HDMI subset, the cables aren't going to matter. The only thing you'd probably lose is the HDMI-CEC pin.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

demon said:


> Unfortunately the idea about using a DVI cable to remove HDMI audio won't work. There aren't separate pins for audio - the audio is multiplexed into the same bitstream as the video data, and as long as both ends negotiate a common HDMI subset, the cables aren't going to matter. The only thing you'd probably lose is the HDMI-CEC pin.


That is pretty much what I have now seen. I tried a dvi cable, no difference.

I really cannot believe this can happen. The idea that a device that isn't even being used for audio is setting the audio capabilities of my ENTIRE system as it is the 'last device in the chain'

There has to be SOME WAY to use the AVR capabilities.

I have read some more, and Denon talks about this in their manual, and I went to a high end AV store last night and they say when they started doing HDMI installs, they have seen this quite often. Their solution? Run coax/toslink from the devices to the receiver. Doesn't that pretty much kill the one-cable concept though?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

philhu said:


> That is pretty much what I have now seen. I tried a dvi cable, no difference.
> 
> I really cannot believe this can happen. The idea that a device that isn't even being used for audio is setting the audio capabilities of my ENTIRE system as it is the 'last device in the chain'
> 
> ...


I don't think you fully understand.

Your TV is connected to your AVR. If your AVR is sending audio over HDMI to your TV (whether your TV speakers are turned on or off), the TV will dictate the maximum sound specs. Which in this case will be LPCM.

In your AVR, you need to turn off sound to the HDMI output. It's not the same as HDMI control, it's about sound over HDMI. If you have a link to the manual for your AVR, I can look for the specific setting for you.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

I think that philu did say that he set the sound to AMP only, which supposedly does not send sound over hdmi to TV.

question to philu,

Did you ever test that this was working by turning on the TV speakers to see if they were getting sound?

Also, one last resort may be to re-boot everything to see if a restart will renogiate the parameters. Pull the plug on everything and then plug back in, Tv first, then amp, then tivo?


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

jrm01 said:


> I think that philu did say that he set the sound to AMP only, which supposedly does not send sound over hdmi to TV.
> 
> question to philu,
> 
> ...


Yes, I set the AVR to AMP Sound only, a few days ago. I just verified it still was set.

Yes, I turned up the tv speakers, no sound is coming from them

Last night I tried turning HDMI Control on/then off to force it to reset its setting.
Pulled the plug on all devices, all 4 boxes, tivo, cblbox, sat rcvr, PS3, TV and AVR. I didn't turn them back on in that order though 

I turned on boxes, waited 2 minutes, then amp, waited a minute, then TV

No difference, glorious PCM Stereo


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Use an HDMI -DVI adapter followed by an DVI-HDMI adapter. Your HDMI cable won't report any audio capabilities at all. Not exactly elegant, but should work.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

vstone said:


> Use an HDMI -DVI adapter followed by an DVI-HDMI adapter. Your HDMI cable won't report any audio capabilities at all. Not exactly elegant, but should work.


Hmm, wonder why it didn't work when he said he did it in post #25.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

philhu said:


> Yes, I set the AVR to AMP Sound only, a few days ago. I just verified it still was set.
> 
> Yes, I turned up the tv speakers, no sound is coming from them
> 
> ...


Okay, well, if you've unplugged the TV HDMI cable, and you get DD/DTS from all devices, then it's clearly the AVR sending the TV HDMI negotiation through.

The only remaining conclusion is that your AVR needs a firmware update to properly support not sending this negotiation through when you turn off sound output through the HDMI cable.

There's no hope otherwise if everything you've posted is accurate.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Update on my stereo only sound with my tv

I called Mitsubishi about it.

They have a newer firmware, 4.06 (I have 4.02).

4.05 directly addressed my issue and an issue where they put digital out CARRIER on the coax output even if output sound was not on that port, messing up alot of receivers. They also send HDMI negotiation even if its speakers are set to off.

So, they are sending me an SD card FREE, to fix this problem. We will see soon enough.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

Update

Got the new firmware. Problem goes away!

So I apologize to Sony, It isn't their fault

And it isn't Mits fault either. It is an older TV with HDMI 1.1, so what they do is turn off the HDMI Audio setup if you turn off the TV Speakers in the TV GUI.

All sounds great now

Thanks to all.


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