# MoCA compatible Coax amplifiers



## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

If anyone is looking for a coax amplifier that works well with a MoCA network, I'm happy to report I have found a supplier with several options that work! This may be old news for many, but as near as I can tell, well made MoCA compatible coax amplifiers have been hard to find until fairly recently (and also be affordable!).

The unit I've installed is the RF MoCA Bypass Amplifier Unity Gain CATV Amp, model PCT-VC-F19A from PCT.

From their website:
It has a built in POE filter for MoCA, 8 output RF amplifier + 1 modem output with unity gain.
Bypass feature provides uninterrupted service at all times, Auto termination upon power outage.
Lowest distortions performance available IEEE 6 kV, B3 surge withstand on all RF ports
Beryllium copper patented DSM seizure technology Sealed F ports conform to SCTE standards.

(All output ports communicate with MoCA)

Bottom line is I've had several low signal problems with my two Roamios where channels would become very blocky or disappear altogether. outages were never consistent with the missing channels varying all the time. A large part of the problem was the way Charter daisy-chained a number of rooms together with several splitters involved. I removed and rewired around most of these where I could but still had a low signal problem to one room and a borderline signal to our main Living room Tivo Roamio. Short of installing new "Home Run" coax runs through out the house (Best Option, but time consuming and not so easy to do anymore for me), I decided to try an amplifier, with instant success! All channels are working on both Roamios, no blocking in the pictures anymore and the MoCA network is running without problem to my 3 Tivo Mini's and providing Internet access to one computer! I do have a leftover MoCA POE filter that I no longer need as the amp has that built in. Even the Cable Service box looks cleaner inside with all the coax running in the same direction instead of coming out opposite sides of the splitter it replaced...

Best of all my Sister-In-Law can watch her programming in her room without complaint! YES!

I'm sure there are other amplifiers that will do the trick with MoCA compatibility, but this is what I found that worked!!

Unity Gain MoCA Bypass Amplifier: PCT-VC-F19A | PCT Store


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## x-telcom (Jan 4, 2017)

I've been researching amplifiers and TiVo tech support says that you need one that has higher frequencies - 1675 MHz similar to the splitters they provide with their devices. The amplifier you mention is only 1 Ghz.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

x-telcom said:


> I've been researching amplifiers and TiVo tech support says that you need one that has higher frequencies - 1675 MHz similar to the splitters they provide with their devices. The amplifier you mention is only 1 Ghz.


The PCT-VC-F19A Supports MoCA Frequency Range 1125 to 1525 MHz as well as Modem Path Frequency Range of 5 to 1002 MHz

I have zero problems using this Amplifier on my Network.

http://www.pctinternational.com/wp-...F19A_PCT-MoCA-Bypass-Amplifiers_20140221a.pdf


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## x-telcom (Jan 4, 2017)

here's what Comcast installed:

5 Port Active Return | PPC Broadband

sounds like a similar device


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

x-telcom said:


> here's what Comcast installed:
> 
> 5 Port Active Return | PPC Broadband
> 
> sounds like a similar device


Similar in that they're both amplifiers, but the PCT model linked above was designed and manufactured with MoCA in mind, allowing MoCA devices to be connected to any of the outputs -- including the eMTA/modem port. That PPC amp installed by Comcast is more of the after-the-fact, "tested to work OK with MoCA if installed per recommendations" variety. Both can work, but the linked PCT amp *will* work and will provide better MoCA performance; and your PPC amp may work, but the MoCA devices may have to work a bit harder (i.e. use a bit more power) to establish and maintain connectivity.



x-telcom said:


> TiVo tech support says that you need one that has higher frequencies - 1675 MHz similar to the splitters they provide with their devices





pshivers said:


> The PCT-VC-F19A Supports MoCA Frequency Range 1125 to 1525 MHz


Amplifiers boost the signal within the specified frequency range, typically 5-1002 MHz; no amps are designed to boost the MoCA signal: it's either neglected or filtered/rerouted. What TiVo was trying to tell you was to find an amp designed to handle the MoCA frequencies.

e.g.











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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Interesting, they can support MoCA from a phone/internet gateway device on the passive port as well.... The standard unity gain amps are basically just a two-way splitter, an ~11dB amp, and then a 4-way splitter baked into one box. Apparently Comcast is concerned with MoCA getting through the amp though, as they put a MoCA filter on the RF input of their zero loss splitter. They work fine with MoCA on the 4 amplified ports, as that's what they use for X1.


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## x-telcom (Jan 4, 2017)

I appreciate you all chiming in. I'm not that technical - but I'm trying! 

Just got off of the phone with TiVo tech support again. Asked for a specific brand & model of an amplifier for my network at the entry-point of the home. They don't have one. 

The tech said that the cable signal and the MOCA signals are separate. That the amplifier only amplifies the cable signal and not the MOCA signal. The MOCA compatible amplifiers allow the MOCA signal from your router/modem to pass through the amplifier and then throughout the coax in the home. That MOCA does not need to be amplified.

So maybe it's a mute point as far as trying to find a 2 GHz amplifier that is similar to the 1675 GHz splitters recommended and provided by TiVo with their equipment? 

Thoughts?


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## x-telcom (Jan 4, 2017)

Per *P-Shivers* recommendation I looked into the PCT products and asked their Customer Service the following:

_" I have a MOCA network set up in my home for TiVo. Comcast installed a PPC EV01-5-U/U amplifier that it MOCA compatible. Another TiVo user on a chat forum said that your PCT-VC-F15U is a superior product for a MOCA amplifier. Could you compare the two and explain why your product is superior? I'd like to optimize my TV/Cable/TiVo viewing."_

PCT Customer Service responded:

_"The EVO amplifier (the PPC brand I have installed by Comcast) is not specifically designed for MoCA networks, but is "compatible" with them. Ours is specifically designed to improve MoCA performance, especially on the bypass port." _

So it may be worth the $75 or so to swap it and see if it improves things.

Thoughts?
_
_


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## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

Amazon has that for $49, Sold by Reliable Cable Products and Fulfilled by Amazon, so that makes the cost to try it about $25 less.
Amazon.com: PCT 8 Port Cable TV Splitter Signal Booster/Amplifier with Active Return Zero Signal Loss and Integrated MoCA Filter: Electronics


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

x-telcom said:


> Per *P-Shivers* recommendation I looked into the PCT products and asked their Customer Service the following:
> 
> " I have a MOCA network set up in my home for TiVo. Comcast installed a PPC EV01-5-U/U amplifier that it MOCA compatible. Another TiVo user on a chat forum said that your PCT-VC-F15U is a superior product for a MOCA amplifier. Could you compare the two and explain why your product is superior? I'd like to optimize my TV/Cable/TiVo viewing."


You mean >like this< ?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

x-telcom said:


> Just got off of the phone with TiVo tech support again. ...
> 
> The tech said ... The MOCA compatible amplifiers allow the MOCA signal from your router/modem to pass through the amplifier and then throughout the coax in the home. That MOCA does not need to be amplified.


The highlighted text above is vague enough to be considered incorrect. NO amps (that I am aware of) pass the MoCA signals from the amp's input port to any output ports unimpeded. The designed-for-MoCA amps I've seen pass MoCA signals *between the output ports *with the least possible loss. (See the simple circuit diagrams from the linked post above.)

That said, MoCA signals may be able to pass through an amplifier between the input and output ports, but not without significant loss -- and often enough loss as to preclude MoCA connectivity.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

x-telcom said:


> So it may be worth the $75 or so to swap it and see if it improves things.


I can't offer an opinion as there's no data indicating anything needs to be improved. Right?

Are you having MoCA connectivity or performance issues, currently, with the Comcast-installed PPC amp?

It would also be educational to understand what exactly you're connecting to your MoCA network, how all the coax interconnects and how your coax network is linked to your Ethernet network and the Internet. Words can usually get the job done, but diagrams are often much more productive... if you're so inclined. (see attached for example diagrams)

e.g.

















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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

p.s. If you have any MoCA-connected TiVo devices, you should be able to check and document your MoCA statistics (TX/RX PHY rates and power estimates) via the network status screens; documenting your MoCA stats will aid in comparing different configurations for your connections and/or components.

See >this post< for more info on checking MoCA stats.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

*I think what PCT was trying to point out is it has a builtin POE filter that reflects all MoCA signals back into you network, This improves you MoCA signal internally and prevents your MoCA signal from bleeding out onto the Cable Company external network and into you neighbor's (and visa-versa).*

*Word of warning about ordering from Amazon for the PCT unit, it does not include the PCT-MPI-1G Power Inserter required to power the unit.. (Been there, Done that!) **http://www.pctinternational.com/product/pct-mpi-1g/*


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

The only reason you would need that MoCA-specific amp is if you are trying to connect your gateway to the rest of your MoCA network in order to get internet connectivity.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> The only reason you would need that MoCA-specific amp is if you are trying to connect your gateway to the rest of your MoCA network in order to get internet connectivity.


Or if, as is probably the most common situation, they had no Ethernet runs in the house, are needing to establish a MoCA network, and would need to install a MoCA adapter at the cable modem/gateway location in order to do so -- assuming the cable modem/gateway is on the unamplified output.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Or if, as is probably the most common situation, they had no Ethernet runs in the house, are needing to establish a MoCA network, and would need to install a MoCA adapter at the cable modem/gateway location in order to do so -- assuming the cable modem/gateway is on the unamplified output.


Virtually no one uses MoCA for computer networking. It's pretty much for DVRs. People use wireless in most cases.


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## x-telcom (Jan 4, 2017)

I found the PCT -VC - F15CU with power supply on EBay for $22 and free shipping. So I'll try it out next week after it's delivered.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Virtually no one uses MoCA for computer networking. It's pretty much for DVRs. People use wireless in most cases.


That's an easily demonstrated falsehood. It also has nothing to do with my response or the topic at hand.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> That's an easily demonstrated falsehood. It also has nothing to do with my response or the topic at hand.


You said it was a common situation. You are wrong.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> You said it was a common situation. You are wrong.


Having to connect a MoCA adapter on the the cable modem/gateway run -- which is actually what I suggested -- is, in fact, common. I know you're big on arguing, but this one's a bigger reach than normal... and I won't be participating in the circus, tonight.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Having to connect a MoCA adapter on the the cable modem/gateway run -- which is actually what I suggested -- is, in fact, common. I know you're big on arguing, but this one's a bigger reach than normal... and I won't be participating in the circus, tonight.


The vast majority of MoCA usage is DVR to client box, not involving the modem/gateway. TiVo users are the exception to the rule, but we are a tiny minority compared to X1 or something similar.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

x-telcom said:


> I found the PCT -VC - F15CU with power supply on EBay for $22 and free shipping. So I'll try it out next week after it's delivered.


I'm assuming this was you. The auction had me worried for a moment when I saw the product name in the title, "PCT-VC-5U," but then checking the image cleared it up. Yes, that amp should work well, in terms of MoCA connectivity between output ports.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

Update on my configuration using the PCT-VC-F19A Coax amplifier.

As stated the amplifier did correct all low signal problems on my network, providing full service to my SIL's TiVo Roamio Basic, no more missing channels with a very solid picture.

I started noticing a few days later that my Roamio Pro in our Living Room was acting oddly, losing channels, recordings stopping, intermittent black screens on all channels/tuners. Channels would come back after two or three of these blackouts over a minute or two, but any recordings that were in progress would stop. I would also need to re-tune the channels in order for the Tivo to begin switching between tuners using the TiVo Live button. Very strange behavior... Problem seemed to occur in bunches two or three times in one hour and sometimes only once per day.

I had read about problems with the coax signal being too hot for the Roamio Pro but not in conjunction with my provider (Charter). Typical signs was signal strength being high for each tuner, (All 6 of mine were showing 90%-100%) and SNR in mid to high 40's. It was also made clear these TiVo provided numbers were not to be trusted as far as being actual Signal strength or SNR, but were an indication that my input signal may be a little too hot for the Roamio Pro. My TiVo Roamio Pro has had few to no problems prior to adding the Amplifier, a pixelated picture every once in awhile was about it, otherwise solid performance.

Per recommendations of the various articles I had read I added a In-Line 6 dB Coax Cable TV Signal Attenuator to the coax input to my TiVo Roamio Pro, (I also purchased 3db and 12db just in case the 6db was too strong or too weak). The 6db dropped the Signal Strength to the mid 70's% for most tuners and the SNR down to low to mid 30's. The only exception I've seen is one channel (787 TWC SportsNet) that still shows a high signal strength in the mid to high 90's%. This may be due to this channel coming in through the Tuning Adapter from Charter that does not have a Attenuator on it's input, but that is pure conjecture on my part.

It has now been a little over 48 hours since I added the Attenuator and I have not had a single problem with my Roamio Pro! I was worried the Attenuator might interfere with the MoCA signal, but it appears to have had zero impact, all MoCA connections are working perfectly, (In addition to the Roamio Pro being the MoCA gateway I have 3 Tivo Mini's, Roamio Basic and a Laptop on the MoCA network).

I'm calling it fixed, I guess one can have a too strong signal as well as a too weak signal when it comes to Tivo's, at least the Roamios.... Just glad I didn't have to call Charter (Now Spectrum) to fix the problem, they have always been clueless working with Tivo's...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Bigg said:


> Virtually no one uses MoCA for computer networking.





Bigg said:


> The vast majority of MoCA usage is DVR to client box, not involving the modem/gateway. TiVo users are the exception to the rule, but we are a tiny minority compared to X1 or something similar.


My apologies. I thought I was logged-in to a TiVo forum and participating in a thread and responding to a question explicitly scoped to MoCA, amplifiers and TiVos. Not sure how this happened, but I'll try to make sure I don't repeat my error.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

krkaufman said:


> My apologies. I thought I was logged-in to a TiVo forum and participating in a thread and responding to a question explicitly scoped to MoCA, amplifiers and TiVos. Not sure how this happened, but I'll try to make sure I don't repeat my error.


In my Very Best Sheldon Cooper Voice, "Was that Sarcasm"? -lol-


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

pshivers said:


> Update on my configuration using the PCT-VC-F19A Coax amplifier.


Great update; thanks! I didn't realize you were having any issues, but thanks for the detailed breakdown. I really need to have a bandolier of those attenuators handy, just in case.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

pshivers said:


> This may be due to this channel coming in through the Tuning Adapter from Charter that does not have a Attenuator on it's input, but that is pure conjecture on my part.


Glad to hear everything is working. Sounds like some imbalance in the way your house is wired, so you've made up for it now, and everyone is happy! The TA is just a little modem to send SDV tuning hits back to the server that does SDV, it doesn't tune anything. The TiVo's tuner still tunes it.


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## Peter G (Jan 3, 2012)

I also have this PCT MoCA amp and found it has worked well. My new house had Coax cables to most rooms but Ethernet only to 2 locations. All cables are Home-Run from a box in the laundry room. The PCT-VC-F19A device was perfect as it allows 9 connections (The modem plus 8 drops) , of which I am using 6. I have terminations on the unused ports.

Currently running Roamio Basic (for OTA) and Bolt (Charter/Spectrum Cable) plus 4 minis for a whole house network. Also have a wireless network extender on the network which adds two Ethernet ports in the office plus extends the WiFi to the front of the house where it was weak. All are connected via MoCA to the modem and to each other.

Peter G


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## sjmaye (Aug 28, 2003)

I purchased and installed one of the PCT-VC-F19A's. Everything works, but I have a question regarding signal strengths and how to interpret them. Before adding this device I ran a simple splitter; Tivo bolt and two minis. Worked OK, but has intermittent pixellation issues. I tried a single port cable amp. It helped some, but still had some problems. While playing with these configurations I thought i had determined that pixellation started occurring at signal levels below 90db. After adding this amp I expected to see signal strengths more solid and hopefully above 90db. This did not happen. When I checked a few channels I now see signal strengths in the 70's and 80's. I am not worrying too much because the picture looks good and stable. 

I would like to know how to accurately interpret/troubleshoot signal strengths. Could someone give me some pointers?


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## jhill1977 (Feb 19, 2007)

Can you recommend an amplifier with fewer outputs? My aunt and uncle have one run to a distant family room that's built on a slab that requires an amp for the signal to work with a TiVo Premiere.

If I remove that box and amp, I'm able to get MOCA working between a Premiere 4 in their living room and a TiVo Mini in their bedroom. But as soon as the amp goes into the equation, the MOCA goes MIA.

In this set up, I only need a max of 5 outputs, including the cable modem. I'm having difficulties trying to decipher the various PCT models and their features and suitability for what I'm needing to achieve here.

Thank you...



pshivers said:


> If anyone is looking for a coax amplifier that works well with a MoCA network, I'm happy to report I have found a supplier with several options that work! This may be old news for many, but as near as I can tell, well made MoCA compatible coax amplifiers have been hard to find until fairly recently (and also be affordable!).
> 
> The unit I've installed is the RF MoCA Bypass Amplifier Unity Gain CATV Amp, model PCT-VC-F19A from PCT.
> 
> ...


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

jhill1977 said:


> Can you recommend an amplifier with fewer outputs? My aunt and uncle have one run to a distant family room that's built on a slab that requires an amp for the signal to work with a TiVo Premiere.
> 
> If I remove that box and amp, I'm able to get MOCA working between a Premiere 4 in their living room and a TiVo Mini in their bedroom. But as soon as the amp goes into the equation, the MOCA goes MIA.
> 
> ...


If you use an old fashioned standard amp it will block MoCA signals. The exception to this is when a older single in/out amp is placed at the very beginning of the coax network, then these amps will have the effect of blocking the MoCA signals from leaving the house similar to a MoCA filter but lacking the "reflective" benefit of the MoCA filter. Other than this situation these older standard amps or are basically not compatible with MoCA use, especially the older multi-port amps.
MoCA "friendly" amps are often called "MoCA bypass" amps because they basically do nothing to the MoCA frequencies and only the lower CATV 5-1002MHz frequencies are actually amplified at all. 
All of these "MoCA friendly" multi-port amps are designed to be placed at the entry location where the signal strength is at it's highest, not downstream where the signal is already degraded, otherwise it is kind of like amplifying bad audio, you just get louder bad audio.
Other "features" some amps, like the PCT versions will often integrate a MoCA "POE" (Point of Entry) filter, because without it, if you don't install a separate MoCA filter yourself the MoCA frequencies could and will leave your home, possibly causing interference to neighbors and leaving your home network open to anyone nearby with a MoCA adapter.
Some other confusing terms are "zero" gain etc. All amps "amplify" the specified signals to a specific "gain" or others labeled "zero" gain just boost the signals to overcome the amount of loss normally caused by a standard splitter, so the output of each port is similar in strength to the incoming signal for each out port.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Many currently available amps will work just fine with MoCA, even if they are not labeled as such. I can personally verify that this low-cost amp not only works very well, but does not cause MoCA problems even when installed downstream on the coax at the input to a Bolt configured as a MoCA client.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C5ILO9K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

HOWEVER, that is a very poor place to put any amp. You should use a single port amp, and it should be installed in your coax as close to the antenna as possible - certainly before any splitters in your incoming coax.


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