# Poor tuner in Roamio?



## ecp3031 (May 24, 2015)

Hooking up OTA antenna to Roamio, finds all channels, but when watching many say no signal, or picture tiles and breaks up. Change antenna directly to Samsung 60" HDTV, receives all stations with perfect picture on all. All antennas here in Phoenix area are at same location, 18.3 miles from my house. Is the tuner in the Roamio that bad?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ecp3031 said:


> Hooking up OTA antenna to Roamio, finds all channels, but when watching many say no signal, or picture tiles and breaks up. Change antenna directly to Samsung 60" HDTV, receives all stations with perfect picture on all. All antennas here in Phoenix area are at same location, 18.3 miles from my house. Is the tuner in the Roamio that bad?


I don't have OTA, but the postings all seem to indicate the Roamio has a very good tuner. If your CBS station, KPHO at 1MW from 18 miles is bad, something is very wrong.

A not uncommon problem is signals that are too strong. Perhaps you could attenuate the signal? It should not be at 100.


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## ecp3031 (May 24, 2015)

CBS OK. Fox no signal. ABC signal in and out, almost impossible to watch Indy 500. NBC ok. PBS no signal. Moving antenna makes no difference. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

Here's a fun fact that I experience with my Roamio Basic.

Connected it to a 4 bay bow-tie UHF antenna... because it was "there" & easy.
During the day light hours. The Roamio would tune ALL Los Angeles local channels.
After dusk, it would only tune the UHF channels: CBS, NBC & KTLA.

The other locals 7, 9, 11, 13 & PBS were switched to VHF after the great digital switch over.

Connecting Roamio to a VHF/UHF antenna restored all local channels.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

More fun facts:
KPHO phy 17 virt 5 1MW
KPNX phy 12 virt 12 819KW
KSAZ phy 10 virt 10 48KW
KNXV phy 15 virt 15 458KW
KAET phy 8 virt 8 25KW (really)


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

My OTA has a great tuner. Better than my Samsung TVs. Each setup has unique conditions though, and your particular unit could have an issue I suppose.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Check out the Tropospheric Ducting Forecast to see when atmospheric conditions allow reception to be optimum.

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

I used to use it all the time between 2001 and 2004 so I would know when I could reliably get reception from the Baltimore TV stations. And would setup my HD recordings accordingly. Since the DC ABC station at the time only has 2.0 Dolby Digital while the Baltimore ABC station had 5.1 Dolby Digital,.


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## MikeBr (Mar 5, 2017)

ecp3031 said:


> Hooking up OTA antenna to Roamio, finds all channels, but when watching many say no signal, or picture tiles and breaks up. Change antenna directly to Samsung 60" HDTV, receives all stations with perfect picture on all. All antennas here in Phoenix area are at same location, 18.3 miles from my house. Is the tuner in the Roamio that bad?


Same problem here in NYC (Manhattan). My old Tivo HD received all the OTA channels without a hitch or need to reorient the indoor antenna for different channels. The new Tivo Roamio OTA cannot receive the channels with the same indoor antenna without reorienting the antenna for different channels. This makes it useless for recording different channels simultaneously or while away from home. Like you I have a 60" Samsung that can receive the OTA channels like my old Tivo HD, which is to say perfectly and without a need to reorient the antenna. Clearly the tuner is lower quality than my old Tivo or new Samsung TV. Before I bought the Roamio I bought and returned the "Tablo" DVR due to its poor tuner. Then I bought a Channel Master DVR and also had a weak tuner. The irony is that all these OTA only DVR's have poor tuners. One would think that OTA only DVR's would have excellent tuners. My old Tivo HD had both OTA (excellent) and cable reception. I guess they decided to save a few pennies per unit in production cost.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

MikeBr said:


> Same problem here in NYC (Manhattan). My old Tivo HD received all the OTA channels without a hitch or need to reorient the indoor antenna for different channels. The new Tivo Roamio OTA cannot receive the channels with the same indoor antenna without reorienting the antenna for different channels. This makes it useless for recording different channels simultaneously or while away from home. Like you I have a 60" Samsung that can receive the OTA channels like my old Tivo HD, which is to say perfectly and without a need to reorient the antenna. Clearly the tuner is lower quality than my old Tivo or new Samsung TV. Before I bought the Roamio I bought and returned the "Tablo" DVR due to its poor tuner. Then I bought a Channel Master DVR and also had a weak tuner. The irony is that all these OTA only DVR's have poor tuners. One would think that OTA only DVR's would have excellent tuners. My old Tivo HD had both OTA (excellent) and cable reception. I guess they decided to save a few pennies per unit in production cost.


My 6 month old Roamio OTA, connected to an attic mounted antenna with multiple splits, works perfectly well. I've been quite happy with it. While I've no idea why you've had problems, I think saying they all have poor tuners is inaccurate.


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## MikeBr (Mar 5, 2017)

I believe outdoor antennas are superior. I live in an apartment in Manhattan surrounded by other buildings. Nevertheless my old Tivo had perfect reception as well as my new Samsung UHD TV all using the same antenna in same location. By the way this is my second Roamio as the first had a hard drive problem but both had same reception problems.


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## RSCHOON (Sep 7, 2013)

My tuner on my Roamio sucks and it's not the ota version. I have cable and they say the signal is good, yet my TiVo regularly doesn't tune channels or is pixelated. I constantly have to fully unplug, wait, and reboot. I hate TiVo right now.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


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## mdm08033 (Apr 23, 2007)

I trimmed the cord over six years ago with a Premiere and then upgraded to a Roamio. I'm across the river from Philadelphia in south Jersey and tried every indoor UHF/VHF antenna I could lay my hands on and nothing performed as consistently as a chimney mounted UHF/VHF antenna. My ex wife stopped complaining about the cord trimming when the $39 Antennacraft 5884 gave us a flawless 60" picture for WCAU/CBS 3's Survivor and Sunday Morning. The large 58" VHF array was essential to receive the "Low-VHF" ABC affiliate on WPVI. 

The punchline is, if you want the best over the air, mid to full size attic or roof antennas are required.

Happy viewing, Michael


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## MikeBr (Mar 5, 2017)

Point is my old Tivo HD had perfect reception with my indoor antenna as does my Samsung UHD tv. Reception is not as reliable with the Tivo Roamio OTA using the same antenna. Clearly the Tivo Roamio tuner has less capability to handle signals that are less than ideal.


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

ecp3031 said:


> Hooking up OTA antenna to Roamio, finds all channels, but when watching many say no signal, or picture tiles and breaks up. Change antenna directly to Samsung 60" HDTV, receives all stations with perfect picture on all. All antennas here in Phoenix area are at same location, 18.3 miles from my house. Is the tuner in the Roamio that bad?


I have two TiVo Premieres and a Roamio OTA I'm 20+ miles from Cedar Hill. Add the ground clutter between here and there I had to go with exterior antenna mounted on my balcony and a pre-amp. I had to add a VHF antenna to get my local ABC (WFAA) affiliate due to the fact it remained in the high VHF band. The Roamio tuner is defiantly better than the Premieres.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 (SM-T817P)


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## MikeBr (Mar 5, 2017)

PCurry57 said:


> I have two TiVo Premieres and a Roamio OTA I'm 20+ miles from Cedar Hill. Add the ground clutter between here and there I had to go with exterior antenna mounted on my balcony and a pre-amp. I had to add a VHF antenna to get my local ABC (WFAA) affiliate due to the fact it remained in the high VHF band. The Roamio tuner is defiantly better than the Premieres.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 (SM-T817P)


I can't speak for the tuner quality of the Tivo Premiers. I can however speak for the tuner quality of the Roamio OTA compared to the older Tivo HD as I have(had Tivo HD). The Tivo HD had flawless reception with my indoor antenna without the need to reorient depending on the channel, not so with the Roamio. I live in Manhattan, NYC, with many tall buildings nearby so signal is not ideal. Nevertheless the old Tivo HD handled OTA reception perfectly unlike the Roamio.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

All we can do is give our personal experience when it comes to how well the OTA tuners work in various products. 

Because we do not have a large enough sampling of units and because OTA reception is unique to each location and the equipment setup, not to mention that reception at a single location can very day to day based on any number of conditions it is nearly impossible to make any valid conclusions about the abilities of OTA tuners in any line of products. 

For me right now I have a Series 3, TiVo HD, Premiere, base Roamio, Bolt, Panasonic TV, and SiliconDust HDHomeRun network attach OTA tuner. Many days I have multi path issues and can have stations come and go at any time. I normally have 4 units plugged in at once, but during testing I have used the main feed without splitting. The antenna is a deep fringe roof mounted with a pre-amp on a 100 foot run. The towers are 35 miles away and according to web sites I have line of site. 

The HDHomeRun and Premiere consistently and noticeably perform worse than the other units. The Panasonic TV is the best but not enough better to really matter, the Series 3, TiVo HD, base Roamio, & Bolt are effectively equal.

In the end the above tell yous nothing about the over all performance of any of these units compared to the others and tells you nothing about how models of any of these units will perform in your environment.


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## MikeBr (Mar 5, 2017)

atmuscarella said:


> All we can do is give our personal experience when it comes to how well the OTA tuners work in various products.
> 
> Because we do not have a large enough sampling of units and because OTA reception is unique to each location and the equipment setup, not to mention that reception at a single location can very day to day based on any number of conditions it is nearly impossible to make any valid conclusions about the abilities of OTA tuners in any line of products.
> 
> ...


I can only relate my experience. My experience indicates a decline in reception ability (OTA) from my older Tivo v. the new Roamio.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

Could you post the results for your reception for your address from TVFool.com as well as info on the antenna you are using and where/how it is mounted? That will give us a better shot of helping you trouble shoot your reception issues. I've owned each model of TiVo since the series 3, and have used all of them OTA. I typically agree that the series 3/HD model seemed to give me the fewest OTA reception issues. Premier was quite bad for OTA when I tried one, Roamio has done pretty well for me, both for my personal setup and in a number of setups for different friends, while I've found the Bolt to be a bit more challenging for OTA. TiVo tuners can certainly be finicky, and as mentioned too strong a signal is often an issue as much as too weak a signal is. Every location has it's own unique reception characteristics but people on this forum can at least give you a good guess on things that may help you.


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## MikeBr (Mar 5, 2017)

According to TVFool.com all my digital channels (2.1, 4.1, 5.1 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, 13.1) show as green, so should work with an indoor antenna. They all worked perfectly with my Tivo HD (Series 3) without reorienting my antenna for different channels. Must reorient at times for the Roamio. Antenna is an RCA non-amplified Model ANTB25 about 8 inches off the floor against a wall facing north about 1 mile away from the transmission - Empire State Building. I tried an amplified Terk antenna but reception was poor with or without amplification. I am on the tenth floor so about 100-120 feet above the ground. Reception only works in this location. If I raise the antenna and place in a window I get very poor reception. Reception problems: Ch 4.1 mostly good, Ch 5.1 & 9.1 no reception without antenna reorientation. Others channels work fine unless I orient the antenna to receive ch 5.1 & 9.1. or for better reception for 4.1. Reception is perfect when using direct connection to the TV tuner of my Samsung UHD TV model UN60KS8000 on all channels without antenna reorientation. Had same reception problems before buying my Roamio with other DVR brands: Tablo, Channelmaster+ which I returned for refunds due to poor reception. The Roamio is better than those but still not as good as the old Tivo HD and my Samsung tv.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

MikeBr said:


> According to TVFool.com all my digital channels (2.1, 4.1, 5.1 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, 13.1) show as green, so should work with an indoor antenna. They all worked perfectly with my Tivo HD (Series 3) without reorienting my antenna for different channels. Must reorient at times for the Roamio. Antenna is an RCA non-amplified Model ANTB25 about 8 inches off the floor against a wall facing north about 1 mile away from the transmission - Empire State Building. I tried an amplified Terk antenna but reception was poor with or without amplification. I am on the tenth floor so about 100-120 feet above the ground. Reception only works in this location. If I raise the antenna and place in a window I get very poor reception. Reception problems: Ch 4.1 mostly good, Ch 5.1 & 9.1 no reception without antenna reorientation. Others channels work fine unless I orient the antenna to receive ch 5.1 & 9.1. or for better reception for 4.1. Reception is perfect when using direct connection to the TV tuner of my Samsung UHD TV model UN60KS8000 on all channels without antenna reorientation. Had same reception problems before buying my Roamio with other DVR brands: Tablo, Channelmaster+ which I returned for refunds due to poor reception. The Roamio is better than those but still not as good as the old Tivo HD and my Samsung tv.


Your situation is similar to my daughter who lives right in DC. She is too close to the towers and undoubtedly has multipath issues. I too found that, one she just needed a very small antenna and two antenna placement is key. I tried a couple of antennas and tried a bunch of locations for antenna placement but wound up using a cheap pair of rabbit ears as she has both VHF and UHF stations. She still gets occasional breakup on a couple of channels. Those situations are always going to be challenging regardless of the tuner.


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

ecp3031 or MikeBR did you ever resolve this problem? I have experienced a very similar problem which leads me to also believe the Roamio OTA tuners are not as effective as the series 3 tuners were.

After I connected my RG11 cable from my externally mounted antenna into my new $$ Roamio I tested 6 channels that I usually watch, 3 of them fail completely. No picture. no audio.
If I plug the same exact cable into my LG TV the failing stations come in fine. 
If I plug the same exact cable into my old series 3 Tivo the stations come in fine.

Tivo support recommend I need an antenna amp. I've now purchased and had to return 2 different manufactures antenna amps (NoCable 20db and channel master 30db) with no improvement. Tivo support also said I need a minimum signal strength of 80 which I find not true. I have channels that work on the Roamio with a signal strength of 50. I would gladly have less tuners if they would work. Any constructive ideas welcome.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Neither member you mentioned has been here in over a year. On the three channels that fail completely, what are their signal%, frequency and call letters?


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> Neither member you mentioned has been here in over a year. On the three channels that fail completely, what are their signal%, frequency and call letters?


Thank you for responding. The results of what I found by testing the signal on the Tivo Roamio follows. I have also attached a tvfool.com report.

Channel 27 works on LG TV and Tivo series 3. Fails on Tivo Roamio.
27-1 KYMB-LD (MeTV) Signal Strength = 72 / peak 72 Frequency = 27
27-2
27-3 
27-4 (BUZZR)
27-5 (SBN)
27-6 (COUNTRY NETWORK)

Channel 22 works on LG TV. Fails on Tivo Roamio
22-1 KLFB-LD (3ABN-E) Signal Strength = 75 / Peak 77 Frequency = 22
22-2

Channel 67 works on LG TV. Fails on Tivo Roamio
67-1 KSMSDT-HD Signal Strength = no signal acquired Frequency = 31 
67-3 LATV


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Easy first: KSKS has moved. This is part of the FCC repack. You will need to tell TiVo.

KLFB may have an issue with its PSIP. Tell the station.

KYMB may be too weak for the Roamio.

KYMB-LD - Wikipedia
KLFB-LD - Wikipedia
KSMS-TV - Wikipedia

Report a Lineup Issue

Can you compare the frequencies between the TV, Series 3 and Roamio? That may give you a clue which is wrong. Except for sub-channel numbers, TiVo doesn't know about PSIP. In Diagnostics, the sub-channel is shown as Program number (right below Modulation). As for the amp, a signal level of 72% is perfect for an OTA Roamio.

As for KSMS, see if you find it by manually entering 33-1 or 26-1. The "-" key is above the "D". Good luck.


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## Sheffield Steve (Jun 11, 2010)

It has been my experience that the TiVo will fail when the signal is too STRONG. (And the TV will accept the stronger signal OK).

I had the same experience, tried an amp etc all to no avail. (72% is the max you will ever see regardless of the actual signal)

In the end what fixed it for me was 9db's worth of signal attenuators.


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

Thank you both for your responses!

Joe Kustra - I'll have to do some homework to understand/answer your other comments, (although I now get what PSIP is thanks to Wikipedia  I don't see a way to get the LG TV to give me the frequencies - yet.

Steve Sheffield - Interesting thought. Can you tell me what attenuator device you used?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

iLoop said:


> Thank you both for your responses!
> Joe Kustra - I'll have to do some homework to understand/answer your other comments, (although I now get what PSIP is thanks to Wikipedia  I don't see a way to get the LG TV to give me the frequencies - yet.


If you can see my signature, there is a link to abbreviations.


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## Sheffield Steve (Jun 11, 2010)

I used these from fleabay ($5):

p.s. If you have a splitter, try connecting the TV and Tivo to the same cable. That will attenuate the signal somewhat and give you an idea if this is the issue.

CABLE TV / HD ANTENNA OTA INLINE ATTENUATOR SIGNAL CUT FILTER 6dB 5-2400 MHz 733960506205 | eBay












iLoop said:


> Thank you both for your responses!
> 
> Steve Sheffield - Interesting thought. Can you tell me what attenuator device you used?


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## jrod9707 (Oct 14, 2007)

Sheffield Steve said:


> It has been my experience that the TiVo will fail when the signal is too STRONG. (And the TV will accept the stronger signal OK).
> 
> I had the same experience, tried an amp etc all to no avail. (72% is the max you will ever see regardless of the actual signal)
> 
> In the end what fixed it for me was 9db's worth of signal attenuators.


With my homemade antenna in the attic(29 miles from the tower) I have 2 RG6 lines that are independently hooked up to my panasonic plasma and the tivo. Both runs are about 45' long.
My TV says 100% signal on all the main tv stations that I care about. The TIVO Roamio VOX only gets up to 72 and stays there consistently. That being said is it really true that 72 is the MAX for signal Roamio will show?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jrod9707 said:


> My TV says 100% signal on all the main tv stations that I care about. The TIVO Roamio VOX only gets up to 72 and stays there consistently. That being said is it really true that 72 is the MAX for signal Roamio will show?


The display of 72% is after the AGC circuit in a basic/OTA Roamio or Bolt has processed the signal. It is not the MAX, but it is the BEST.

To see a more real time signal level, and watch AGC work, use the Signal Strength meter in Channel Settings.


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## Sheffield Steve (Jun 11, 2010)

I personally have never seen the display go over 72% on my Roamio regardless of the signal strength

p.s. I have a small attic mounted antenna which is about 20 miles from the transmitter.



jrod9707 said:


> With my homemade antenna in the attic(29 miles from the tower) I have 2 RG6 lines that are independently hooked up to my panasonic plasma and the tivo. Both runs are about 45' long.
> My TV says 100% signal on all the main tv stations that I care about. The TIVO Roamio VOX only gets up to 72 and stays there consistently. That being said is it really true that 72 is the MAX for signal Roamio will show?


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

To Steve & rod : My 4 tuner OTA only Roamio does show 85% on one channel when I check signal strength from the Tivo Settings => Channel Settings => Antenna Signal Strength Test. I bought it in the last month so maybe the firmware etc is changed?

Joe K - 
Channel 33-1 failed with no picture/audio
Channel 26-1 failed with no picture/audio but KTSFDT call letters appeared when it was first selected. 

I found the frequencies matching between the Roamio and Series 3 Tivo’s for the 3 channels I mentioned, but I am unable to get the frequency setting from the LG TV. It (the LG) has very limited channel display information. At this point, I’m most interested in getting channel 27 working. Why do you think channel 27 (KYMB) is too weak for Tivo since it shows 72% and you mentioned that is a perfect number for an OTA Roamio? The TVFool report shows 27 in the same general range as channel 25 which comes in OK. 

Can anyone suggest a thread/pointer that describes the Roamio diagnostics a bit? When I look at the diag display it shows only channel 19-1. I would have thought I could select different channels but don’t see how.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I was wrong about KYMB.

Diagnostics are located in two places and display different item. First is dynamic. Menu, Settings, Channel Settings, Antenna Signal Strength. You can enter a channel number or use channel up/down. This display is showing the signal being processed by AGC. Second is a more static display of all tuners. Account & System Info, Diagnostics. Some items are real time, like SNR and RS Uncorrected errors.


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

Thank you for the diagnostic’s pointers. I have become more familiar with them than I would like at this point 

To reiterate my initial issue: I cannot receive channels on the new Roamio that come in fine on the Tivo series 3 or either of 2 LG televisions. I use the exact same connection into either of the devices mentioned. The Roamio DVR will not receive the same stations as other devices and that is disappointing. I found all the support folks fine to work with at TiVo yet my issue remains unresolved. Surly TiVo Q/A and/or engineering departments must be aware of this issue (?) yet after a month of working with their technical support, they offer no reasonable alternative. For my uses, design-wise, they have released a broken product. 

In trying to get channel 27 to work on the Roamio since my last post :
- I tried a 6db attenuator - no help
At TiVo supports suggestion : 
- I tried a 5 db amp - no help returned it and ordered anther amp
- I tried a 17 and 30 db channel master amp. - No help
- I took the Roamio and a small TV 200’ to the base of my outside antenna and plugged in there with the 30db amp in line. - The Romio still fails. TV works fine. 
- Tivo support then thought my tuner was bad so I received a new replacement Roamio. - The same channel (27 ) still fails. 

I offered TiVo support that I would live with the sub par Roamio tuners if TiVo would be willing to activate my old Series 3 so I can record on the channels that fail to come in on the Roamio. They can, or will not do that. It is unclear to me if the can’t or won’t… as I know several folks that have these older units that are still running with an active service.

TiVO support insists that the signal strength must be 80% for any channel to work. The frustrating part is no one at TiVo support could explain why I have channels working fine with 52% signal strength and 26db SNR. Yet the channel (27) that fails has 72% signal strength and 29db SNR. For me, that doesn’t add up…so there must be something else going on with the failure to receive this station. I’m far from being any kind of expert here, but it looks to me like the TVFool report shows the failing station 27 has better ‘specs’ than some of the stations that work like channel 43. Thanks all who offered feedback and ideas.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

iLoop said:


> Thank you for the diagnostic's pointers. I have become more familiar with them than I would like at this point
> TiVO support insists that the signal strength must be 80% for any channel to work. The frustrating part is no one at TiVo support could explain why I have channels working fine with 52% signal strength and 26db SNR. Yet the channel (27) that fails has 72% signal strength and 29db SNR. For me, that doesn't add up&#8230;so there must be something else going on with the failure to receive this station. I'm far from being any kind of expert here, but it looks to me like the TVFool report shows the failing station 27 has better 'specs' than some of the stations that work like channel 43. Thanks all who offered feedback and ideas.


TiVo support is stupid. A signal % for OTA is 72% when AGC adjusts it. The SNR of 29dB is a bit low, but should not stop reception.

That channel, what are its call letters and frequency? Does your TV have signal diagnostics? The frequencies should agree. All I can guess is that that channel is not transmitting any content. Your TV should confirm that if they have the same frequency.

Let me add this. A TV is delivered with no knowledge of channels, physical or virtual. You must scan to get anything. A TiVo is delivered with no knowledge until you tell it your zipcode and it downloads what should be your channels, including their frequency, physical and virtual channel numbers. In a perfect world a TiVo should never need a channel scan. But stuff changes and TiVo can't keep up with the changes. So you scan, then tell TiVo what's wrong and they try to fix it. Keep this in mind when things don't make sense. With TiVo that happens a lot.


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> TiVo support is stupid. A signal % for OTA is 72% when AGC adjusts it. The SNR of 29dB is a bit low, but should not stop reception.
> 
> That channel, what are its call letters and frequency? Does your TV have signal diagnostics? The frequencies should agree. All I can guess is that that channel is not transmitting any content. Your TV should confirm that if they have the same frequency.
> 
> Let me add this. A TV is delivered with no knowledge of channels, physical or virtual. You must scan to get anything. A TiVo is delivered with no knowledge until you tell it your zipcode and it downloads what should be your channels, including their frequency, physical and virtual channel numbers. In a perfect world a TiVo should never need a channel scan. But stuff changes and TiVo can't keep up with the changes. So you scan, then tell TiVo what's wrong and they try to fix it. Keep this in mind when things don't make sense. With TiVo that happens a lot.


The call letters for channel 27 (and 27-1; 27-2; 27-3; 27-4;27-5; 27-6) are KYMB-LD. I've confirmed there is content present for these stations on both the TV and Series 3 TiVo. Can't find TV diags, but I would guess series 3 should have them...never looked in the past but might be worth a look now.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

iLoop said:


> Yet the channel (27) that fails has 72% signal strength and 29db SNR.


Yeah, I don't get it. It should work.

Live TV tune to a good station. 
Live TV then press 27. Error message ?
Live TV tune to a good station. 
Live TV then press 27-1. Error message ?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

iLoop said:


> The call letters for channel 27 (and 27-1; 27-2; 27-3; 27-4;27-5; 27-6) are KYMB-LD. I've confirmed there is content present for these stations on both the TV and Series 3 TiVo. Can't find TV diags, but I would guess series 3 should have them...never looked in the past but might be worth a look now.


KYMB-LD - Wikipedia
home
KYMB-LD MONTEREY, CA
I'm out of ideas.


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

Thank you Joe K for you input and ideas...I'm just about done here too...

Live working station switched to 27 = error D257
Switch from 27 to 27-1 = error V53

I did some comparison between the working (channel 27) series 3 tivo and the Roamio diags & confirmed the frequencies are the same between the two aka 551000 KHz. If I try to record on 27 the Roamio diags indicate no channel selected on tuner 0; tuners 1-3 have channel 22-2. If selecting channel 27-1 Roamio diags show it on tuner 0 with 72% signal & SNR 29 as mentioned in previous posts. 

One interesting spec was the signal for channel 27 on the series 3 was 95% with 31 db SNR. Someone off line suggested trying even more than 6db attenuation. Seems counter intuitive to me, but it's a cheap test so more attenuation is on order.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Do you have a different Remote you can try ?

I just tried a Logitech Harmony 650 and discovered most of the number buttons don't work. Guess I dropped it too many times. So its got me thinking..


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

jth tv said:


> Do you have a different Remote you can try ?
> 
> I just tried a Logitech Harmony 650 and discovered most of the number buttons don't work. Guess I dropped it too many times. So its got me thinking..


Yup. Tried setting channels on the Roamio with the Series 3 remote. And they behave the same. Thanks


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> Let me add this. A TV is delivered with no knowledge of channels, physical or virtual. You must scan to get anything. A TiVo is delivered with no knowledge until you tell it your zipcode and it downloads what should be your channels, including their frequency, physical and virtual channel numbers. In a perfect world a TiVo should never need a channel scan. But stuff changes and TiVo can't keep up with the changes. So you scan, then tell TiVo what's wrong and they try to fix it. Keep this in mind when things don't make sense. With TiVo that happens a lot.


Well one thing is clear. I don't understand how this doesn't work. I tried attenuating the signal by first turning off my amp (although I tried with it on both 17 and 20db settings) and adding successive attenuators. I tested with signal strength testing from 25 up to the top 72. Still no video display or audio on channel 27. I think there may be something to Joe's comment above as other channels with the same signal strength and SNR come in.

Guess we'll have to leave this one unresolved for now. It might be time to investigate the kodi/plex/emby route


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

See if your Channel List has multiple duplicate entries for 27-1. My list has multiple entries for some channels, and I get no video or audio if the wrong one is checked.


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## iLoop (Aug 11, 2018)

I had checked the channel list and while there are multiple entries for the 27-1 through 27-6 channels I had the correct ones selected for my area. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## KeithKenobi (Apr 30, 2019)

I can confirm, ch 27 KYMB Monterey / Salinas is the one with the problem! It fails on three different tuners with multiple antenna setups, two other tuners are just fine.
The owner says they are not sending virtual ch 27 info because they are on ch 27, (waiting on a tech response now).
NOTES: Ch 22 KLFB has the exact same problem!
Tuners that fail; DishHopper 3, Roamio, Old dishnetwork box. Working are Samsung 4K TV tuner and old Viore portable.
ALSO: Co-owned by Cocola, KMBY ch 19, is OK on all tuners. ...Keith HELP!


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## KeithKenobi (Apr 30, 2019)

Ch 27 KYMB and Ch 22 KLFB are NOT transmitting ANY info in the channel field!!
Some tuners do NOT know what to do, so they do not show the channel.
Keith


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

KeithKenobi said:


> Ch 27 KYMB and Ch 22 KLFB are NOT transmitting ANY info in the channel field!!
> Some tuners do NOT know what to do, so they do not show the channel.
> Keith


Contact the station engineer's, and ask them to fix it. It has to be fixed by them, there's nothing you can do on your side except to explain to them that it doesn't work with dvr's.


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## KeithKenobi (Apr 30, 2019)

I contacted the owner, he forwarded to several others at his station. They seem uninterested in fixing it.
Am I correct in thinking some of these stations throw something on the air to get a must-carry on cable?
I have contacted the FCC, waiting for a response.


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## KeithKenobi (Apr 30, 2019)

KYMB is now working on my Roamio and Dishnetwork receivers. The problem was; 
The PAT TSID, shown at the top, is 22017. However, the TVCT TSID, shown in the entries about midway down? That has a TSID of 1. The mismatched TSID means that the receiver thinks when it looks at the RF 27 signal as a whole, it should see TSID 1, but is instead seeing TSID 22017, so it assumes there's something wrong with the signal and doesn't show it. That's why it only works on certain tuners--some enforce it more rigidly than others. I've seen this happen before and it's one of those things that's not obvious to someone who hasn't seen it before.
Thanks to Trip for this info.
NOW, to get Tivo to shift their guide for 27.1 MeTV and 27.2 ThisTV 3 hours as the OTA signal (vs Comcast) is 3 hours off! They are transmitting OTA East coast feed and the Tivo guide is Pacific!
Keith


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