# 20.7.1 is...... ticking?



## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Anyone else? My setup is HDMI between Bolt and Samsung TV. Optical between TV and Sherwood surround sound amplifier.

After updating to 20.7.1, there is a low level ticking sound in the audio when sitting on any menu screen in the absence of program audio. If I turn the amplifier volume up, what I hear is a faint background hiss / whine that goes on and off at about a 1/2 Hz rate. When it goes off, there is a "pop", which is the "ticking" sound that can be heard with the volume at normal levels. 

Interestingly, it is NOT present during a paused playback but it returns if you return to any menu with the paused program visible in the upper right. But if you then un-pause and then re-pause the program (still in the thumbnail), the ticking stops. 

It is NOT present in the analog feed from the TV.... just the optical. It was NOT there prior to 20.7.1. 

Not a deal breaker for sure, but definitely a change from the previous software revision. It IS audible in a quiet room at normal volume levels and to me at least constitutes a minor annoyance.

Anyone else hear this in the digital audio stream from TV to amplifier? Is this perhaps unique to my particular setup? 

Paul


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

No such problem with a Roamio 20.7.1, hdmi to tv, tv optical to receiver (set to stereo only) to headphones, PCM only (No Dolby). That's a lot of conversions....

Settings, Audio, Sound Effect Volume ?


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

I'm not in front of the TV right now but I think that the problem only manifested itself in Dolby Surround not in non Dolby stereo. It definitely did not manifest itself analog from the TV to the amplifier so it's not coming from the Bolt directly. However it is definitely new with this firmware release so there's something going on.

Paul


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

pgoelz said:


> Anyone else? My setup is HDMI between Bolt and Samsung TV. Optical between TV and Sherwood surround sound amplifier.
> 
> After updating to 20.7.1, there is a low level ticking sound in the audio when sitting on any menu screen in the absence of program audio. If I turn the amplifier volume up, what I hear is a faint background hiss / whine that goes on and off at about a 1/2 Hz rate. When it goes off, there is a "pop", which is the "ticking" sound that can be heard with the volume at normal levels.
> 
> ...


When in a menu without audio, the audio output is PCM 2 channel. When you hit Pause, there is no audio sent. PCM/Dolby issues are part of this update, so this may be a side effect.


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Here's a bit more information in case anyone cares. Again, this is HDMI from the Bolt to the TV and optical from the TV to the amplifier. The amp is set to four channel Dolby surround. 

I just discovered that the ticking is present at ANY amplifier volume setting greater than "minimum" (which I think is the same as muted). If you turn the volume up far enough you can hear a bit of a whine that switches on and off per "tick". But the level of the ticking itself remains the same independent of the volume setting. 

I interpret this to mean that the Bolt is turning something on and off and since there is a digital path from the Bolt through the TV to the amplifier, this causes the amplifier to "tick" as whatever it is turns on and off. Note that the digital input and Dolby indications in the display do NOT change while it is ticking. 

We are in the middle of a widespread ongoing cable outage due to high winds on Wednesday and I thought I'd leave the TV on and tuned to a cable channel so I'd hear something when the cable came back (like leaving a light on during a power failure). I actually had to switch to analog audio because the ticking was getting annoying. 

Again, not a deal breaker but I wish Tivo would stop breaking things. Does anyone know if Tivo reads this forum or should I call them and report it.... and sit through the "we've never heard of that issue.... reboot everything" litany. I have near zero confidence that anyone I talk to at Tivo would correctly paraphrase this one, so the odds of getting someone to look at it seem pretty low unless they read it here in all its detail. 

Paul


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

pgoelz said:


> whine that switches on and off per "tick".


That sure sounds like interference from something, some new appliance ? Have you tried unplugging things one at a time when you hear it ? Optical, the TV, HDMI, modem, Ethernet, maybe even the TiVo. My wall fan really messes up channel 7, so I am thinking radio type interference.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

pgoelz said:


> Here's a bit more information in case anyone cares. Again, this is HDMI from the Bolt to the TV and optical from the TV to the amplifier. The amp is set to four channel Dolby surround.
> Paul


Why not connect the optical to the TiVo? Are you using apps on the TV?


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

I know where you are coming from with the interference suggestion. But that is NOT what this is. As I think I said earlier, if it is present with a video paused in the upper right corner of a menu, it goes away if I un-pause and then re-pause that video. 

As for connecting the optical to the Bolt directly.... good idea. I do use the TV as a PC monitor from time to time for misc. video playback from the net but that would at least be a temporary workaround. I'll give that a try and see if anything changes. 

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

And some time passes.....

OK, with the Bolt connected directly to the amp optically, the ticking is gone. The faint whine at extreme volume settings is still there but it does not switch on and off like it did when the audio was routed through the TV.

However, while watching a recording of "The Young Pope", the amplifier now switches between "Dolby Digital" while the video is running and "Dolby Pro Logic" when the video is paused. I assume this is in fact the expected behavior? With the audio routed through the TV, it stayed on "Dolby Pro Logic" 100% regardless of program content. I wonder what the TV was doing to the signal.... it never occurred to me that it was doing ANYTHING to it 

EDIT: I have never fully understood the many versions of "surround sound" so I did a bit of preliminary reading. Looks like my TV strips off the Dolby Digital information and downgrades it to "Dolby ProLogic"? Or at least it does something that causes my amplifier to never switch to Dolby Digital (which seems to be the preferred system when it is available). So maybe the ticking was a good thing because it forced me to take the TV out of the loop? I'll just have to switch back to analog if I want sound from the PC that is connected to it. 

Paul


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

pgoelz said:


> And some time passes.....
> 
> OK, with the Bolt connected directly to the amp optically, the ticking is gone. The faint whine at extreme volume settings is still there but it does not switch on and off like it did when the audio was routed through the TV.
> 
> ...


A lot depends on the TV. My Sony optical only sends DD, even if fed DD+ or DD EX. It's the reason I use HDMI to my AVR. But it's a simple process to change to getting audio from TiVo. I have a Roamio and could not duplicate your problem. Also, I just bought a little Sharp/Roku TV and it will pass DTS. Too bad I never use it on that TV. Yes, there are a lot of versions of Dolby and surround. If you stream Amazon or Netflix, the optical may drop your audio to regular DD. My Roamio does. With HDMI I get DD+.


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

pgoelz said:


> OK, with the Bolt connected directly to the amp optically, the ticking is gone. The faint whine at extreme volume settings is still there but it does not switch on and off like it did when the audio was routed through the TV.
> 
> Paul


Well, that experiment didn't last long. When I run the optical directly from the Bolt to my amplifier instead of through the TV, the audio (of course) remains active after I use the Bolt remote to turn the TV off. Doesn't look like the remote can be programmed to turn off the TV and the amplifier at the same time. Bummer.

I did notice though that the sound sync seemed better on the several recordings I watched so I'm wondering just what processing the TV adds. Next time I notice something way out of sync I'll pause it and plug the Bolt into the amplifier directly again and see what happens.

Paul


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

pgoelz said:


> Well, that experiment didn't last long. When I run the optical directly from the Bolt to my amplifier instead of through the TV, the audio (of course) remains active after I use the Bolt remote to turn the TV off. Doesn't look like the remote can be programmed to turn off the TV and the amplifier at the same time. Bummer.


You can program the remote to control power for both the TV and receiver. Check this thread out.

Tivo Remote - A/V Receiver

Scott


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

HerronScott said:


> You can program the remote to control power for both the TV and receiver. Check this thread out.
> 
> Tivo Remote - A/V Receiver
> 
> Scott


Thanks, that worked. We'll see how long they stay in sync... the amplifier is not always line of sight if the remote is on the couch..... if I decide to keep things routed this way, I may have to move the amp so it can always see the remote 

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

I had to put the TV back into the audio path because I have other video sources connected to the TV (PC, DVD and Chromecast) and while routing the audio directly from the Bolt to the amplifier stopped the ticking, it also drastically complicated the process of changing video sources. And of course the ticking resumed.

So I did my due diligence and reported this to Tivo. After much troubleshooting (yes, they wanted me to reboot), they decided it was not a Tivo issue and essentially blew me off. In spite of the fact that it began with the 20.7.1 software update and is definitely affected by pausing and un-pausing a video.

I finally spoke with a supervisor who said he would pass it on to the software team, but given its esoteric nature and the fact they don't believe it is a Tivo issue to begin with I am not real hopeful it will ever get fixed (except maybe accidentally). Geez I'm tired of this. Fortunately this is a low level (albeit annoying) issue.

Paul


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

pgoelz said:


> I had to put the TV back into the audio path because I have other video sources connected to the TV (PC, DVD and Chromecast) and while routing the audio directly from the Bolt to the amplifier stopped the ticking, it also drastically complicated the process of changing video sources. And of course the ticking resumed


We run all our sources through the receiver (TiVos, Blu-ray player, FireTV). Is there a reason you can't do that as well?

Scott


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

HerronScott said:


> We run all our sources through the receiver (TiVos, Blu-ray player, FireTV). Is there a reason you can't do that as well?
> 
> Scott


No... the amplifier only has one optical input and no HDMI input so anything other than the optical input to the amplifier is not digital and would not (I assume) carry Dolby Digital info. Also, one of our devices is a Chromecast and it needs an HDMI input. 
Connecting the TV optically to the amp makes the most sense because we can switch the TV input from the Tivo remote and whatever we select, we get digital audio.

And lastly, I am not sure the Tivo remote can be programmed to switch the amplifier input vs. the TV's. But even if that is possible, the amp doesn't have the right inputs. I guess I could always upgrade the amp, but I don't want to have to do that just to cure the ticking... heck, I'm not even sure it would cure the ticking 

Paul


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

pgoelz said:


> No... the amplifier only has one optical input and no HDMI input so anything other than the optical input to the amplifier is not digital and would not (I assume) carry Dolby Digital info. Also, one of our devices is a Chromecast and it needs an HDMI input.
> Connecting the TV optically to the amp makes the most sense because we can switch the TV input from the Tivo remote and whatever we select, we get digital audio.
> 
> And lastly, I am not sure the Tivo remote can be programmed to switch the amplifier input vs. the TV's. But even if that is possible, the amp doesn't have the right inputs. I guess I could always upgrade the amp, but I don't want to have to do that just to cure the ticking... heck, I'm not even sure it would cure the ticking


OK, limited inputs makes sense. Our older Onkyo doesn't have HDMI either but it does have 3 optical inputs that can be used with 3 of the component inputs.

And yes the TiVo remote can be programmed to change the receiver input versus the TV input (same with volume and mute controls).

Scott


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

HerronScott said:


> OK, limited inputs makes sense. Our older Onkyo doesn't have HDMI either but it does have 3 optical inputs that can be used with 3 of the component inputs.
> 
> And yes the TiVo remote can be programmed to change the receiver input versus the TV input (same with volume and mute controls).
> 
> Scott


Trouble is that even if I had sufficient digital audio inputs to the amp, it has NO video inputs so I would have to switch TWO devices to change from (say) Tivo to DVD. In that scenario, I could not use just the Tivo remote. It is far simpler to run everything through the TV.... or the amp if it had enough audio AND video inputs.

I would love to dive into this deeper and figure out exactly what the problem is, but Tivo keeps the software folks totally isolated from us users so that isn't going to happen. If the CSRs don't accurately paraphrase my description, they will never be able to duplicate a subtle issue like this one. Leaves me wondering how they expect to deal with software issues when they won't talk to the users or accept the possibility (horrors) that it might actually BE a TIVO issue. But that can't be, right?

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

OK, did Tivo push out an update last night? This morning the ticking is gone no matter what I do. I have changed absolutely nothing. 

According to the system info screen, I'm running 20.7.1.RC2-USC-11-849. New as of yesterday? Or is the issue just playing hide and seek? 

Paul


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

pgoelz said:


> OK, did Tivo push out an update last night? This morning the ticking is gone no matter what I do. I have changed absolutely nothing.
> 
> According to the system info screen, I'm running 20.7.1.RC2-USC-11-849. New as of yesterday? Or is the issue just playing hide and seek


That was the version you should have gotten with the original update to 20.7.1.

Scott


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Thought so. I guess I'll just wait for the ticking to start again  Or maybe use this lull as more input to figure out what is going on. 

Paul


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

My Roamio, not on any list, received 20.7.1.RC2 last night also.

USC? typo?


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> My Roamio, not on any list, received 20.7.1.RC2 last night also.
> 
> USC? typo?


If that was directed at me, that was not a typo. My Bolt says it is running 20.7.1.RC2-USC-11-849. Is that not what you have?

This morning the ticking returned when I enabled and then paused the upper right corner thumbnail while in the Tivo Central menu. It toggled on and off a couple times when I un-paused and then re-paused. But after a couple of those, it went away and I have not been able to get it to come back again. Very perplexing! But at least it is gone more than it is present. The other day it was present 100% of the time.

Paul


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

pgoelz said:


> If that was directed at me, that was not a typo. My Bolt says it is running 20.7.1.RC2-USC-11-849. Is that not what you have?


No! I have 20.7.1.RC2-USA-6-848 on my Roamio Plus.
You have USC??? Are you in Pasadena or something? As a Wisconsin football fan, I find that offensive! 
[edit] No ticking here.


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Very interesting! Yes indeed, I have "USC-11-849", whatever that means. I looked this morning and again just now. Since the ticking stopped for a day and has (mostly) not come back, I was immediately suspicious that Tivo pushed out an updated firmware revision to my Bolt. If so, I wish to h3ll they would close the loop and tell me! And if not.... why is my software revision different than yours? I was on the priority update list.... did we maybe get a later version than those who waited? 

Again, I have a basic four tuner 500MB Bolt (upgraded to 3TB) on Comcast with a cable card. 

Paul


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

pgoelz said:


> Very interesting! Yes indeed, I have "USC-11-849", whatever that means. I looked this morning and again just now. Since the ticking stopped for a day and has (mostly) not come back, I was immediately suspicious that Tivo pushed out an updated firmware revision to my Bolt. If so, I wish to h3ll they would close the loop and tell me! And if not.... why is my software revision different than yours? I was on the priority update list.... did we maybe get a later version than those who waited?
> 
> Again, I have a basic four tuner 500MB Bolt (upgraded to 3TB) on Comcast with a cable card.
> 
> Paul


Paul, the typo may not be yours. True, I don't have a Bolt, but in the past when letters have displayed in a version number they have always been "USA". More likely it's a typo on the TiVo end. That said, if it stays that way for subsequent releases, the Bolt may just be different.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Joe is all answers. LOL. Sorry, I can't stop laughing at this.
USC! LOL.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

I just checked mine:

20.7.1.RC2-01-2-758 on my Premiere model TCD-758250,
20.7.1.RC2-USA-6-848 on my Roamio Plus model TCD-848000, and
20.7.1.RC2-USC-11-849 on my Bolt+ model TCD849300.


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

OK, so my firmware is the same as yours. So much for that idea  But.... something changed a couple days ago when the ticking stopped. It has since come back, but only occasionally. And (so far) I think only when there is a paused program within a menu. Un-pausing and then re-pausing stops the ticking and it does not come back for quite a while. If it stays like this, it is not much of an issue. When I first noticed it, it was getting annoying because it was always present on menus with no program audio. 

Paul


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Whoa.... not just ticking tonight... loud popping! We finished watching a Netflix program and exited back to the NPL and were greeted by a loud popping instead of the usual low level ticking. Enabling and then disabling the thumbnail in the upper right corner of the NPL stopped the popping like it does the ticking. 

Am I really the only one with this problem? 

Paul


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I've never run across it.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

For what it is worth, I was just watching some stupid youtube video that popped up in a web page using my LG TV as a computer monitor. The sound was horrible. I closed the browser, and I hear the TV speakers ticking for about 2 to 3 minutes after I closed the browser. It was like it had buffered up a batch of ticks .


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## pgoelz (May 1, 2005)

Well, not quite the same. But maybe related? Remember, in my case the ticking stops these days if I simply un-pause and then immediately re-pause the video. 

And speaking of buffers, I have noticed recently that if I start a new video (recorded or live), I get a couple hundred mS of the previous audio before the new audio starts. Like the ticking, this NEVER happened before the current software update. 

Paul


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