# Tivo Premiere Vs. Tivo Premiere 4



## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

Other than the 2 additional cable tuners, and the loss of the ATSC tuners, are there any differences between the Tivo Premiere and the Tivo Premiere 4? Especially hardware wise?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

4 tuner units also have MoCA built in and also are the only ones that can serve as host to TiVo Mini.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

kturcotte said:


> Other than the 2 additional cable tuners, and the loss of the ATSC tuners, are there any differences between the Tivo Premiere and the Tivo Premiere 4? Especially hardware wise?


ATSC is a digital standard, including (I think) both digital OTA and digital cable. The 4-tuner Premieres do not support NTSC (analog) or ATSC 8VSB modulation (digital OTA), but they do support ATSC QAM modulation (digital cable).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

moyekj said:


> 4 tuner units also have MoCA built in and also are the only ones that can serve as host to TiVo Mini.


Also a faster Ethernet port (1Gb) and, I think, a somewhat faster HDUI. This is for the TP-4 as I never had the TPXL-4.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If your cable provider has any analog only stations still then it wont be able to record those. Most cable companies simulcast the analog stations so you can get them all digital, even if they are just SD. But some, like mine, still have analog only stations. For those you have to have a 2 tuner Premiere as it's the only one that can record analog.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

lessd said:


> Also a faster Ethernet port (1Gb) and, *I think, a somewhat faster HDUI*. This is for the TP-4 as I never had the TPXL-4.


 Strongly disagree with "faster HDUI" statement. My Elite is slow as molasses compared to my 2 tuner Premiere for both HDUI (Flash based) as well as the Flash apps. I personally can't wait to dump my 4 tuner unit in favor of the next hopefully faster hardware platform. Currently I use my Mini as a front end to the Elite so I don't have to deal with the slowness. But I'm probably much pickier than most when it comes to UI responsiveness.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

moyekj said:


> Strongly disagree with "faster HDUI" statement. My Elite is slow as molasses compared to my 2 tuner Premiere for both HDUI (Flash based) as well as the Flash apps. I personally can't wait to dump my 4 tuner unit in favor of the next hopefully faster hardware platform. Currently I use my Mini as a front end to the Elite so I don't have to deal with the slowness.


I see no difference between my 4 and my 2


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

moyekj said:


> Strongly disagree with "faster HDUI" statement. My Elite is slow as molasses compared to my 2 tuner Premiere for both HDUI (Flash based) as well as the Flash apps. I personally can't wait to dump my 4 tuner unit in favor of the next hopefully faster hardware platform. Currently I use my Mini as a front end to the Elite so I don't have to deal with the slowness. But I'm probably much pickier than most when it comes to UI responsiveness.


They should be almost the same speed. The CPU, memory, and software are all the same. I am ready to upgrade, myself. But not if it means losing OTA, so I hope they get their act together and at least double my tuners, at least double the speed (I think it could use quadrupling myself), double the hours, AND add nice other stuff (like Stream).

BUT PLEASE KEEP the optical out and composite video analog/audio too, TiVo (I do use them at the same time)! Crossing my fingers.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

crxssi said:


> They should be almost the same speed. The CPU, memory, and software are all the same.


 Yes, but buffering 2 additional tuners means extra load on the CPU as well. The 2 tuner version already has specs below the Adobe's minimum hardware specifications to run Flash, so you add 2 more tuners to the mix and you get an even slower HDUI. I'm not the only one that has noticed 4 tuner units being slower than the 2 tuner units, but I'm probably one of the most vocal ones highlighting the difference. The tuner silicon is different as well (Maxlinear I believe) and some 4 tuner owners have problems "losing ability to tune any channels until reboot" problems - several threads on that. Sure hope the next hardware iterations don't use Maxlinear tuners. My 2 tuner unit is pretty reliable and acceptable running HDUI - can't say the same about my Elite unfortunately.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

moyekj said:


> Yes, but buffering 2 additional tuners means extra load on the CPU as well.


Yeah, I suppose some, but the chipset does most of that. "Tuning" is mostly just memory moves from the "tuner" (which is not really a tuner in the sense it is doing anything like digitizing) to the hard drive. So I wouldn't think it would make all that much difference in the UI, which is mostly CPU and internet bound.



> The 2 tuner version already has specs below the Adobe's minimum hardware specifications to run Flash,


Yep. They need double the memory and four times the CPU by my estimate. But even then, there will still be irritating pauses in the user interface due to a design that makes it totally dependent on TiVo's servers "IN THE CLOUD" and with little to no caching. And if I were a betting man, I would bet my house that this major design flaw (non-local TiVo.com server based info) will not change in the next product release.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

crxssi said:


> Yeah, I suppose some, but the chipset does most of that. "Tuning" is mostly just memory moves from the "tuner" (which is not really a tuner in the sense it is doing anything like digitizing) to the hard drive. So I wouldn't think it would make all that much difference in the UI, which is mostly CPU and internet bound.


 You'd be surprised. One of the old tricks for speeding up TiVo TTG transfers which are CPU limited is to tune all tuners to channels you don't receive. This frees up more CPU cycles and speeds up TTG transfers, so tuners do take more CPU resources than you would think, and obviously they are given higher priority over other functions since you don't want pixelation etc.
Anyway, I fully expect/hope next TiVo hardware generations to be more than adequate for running HDUI and Flash apps as they should run. The Mini already gives a good preview of that.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

moyekj said:


> Strongly disagree with "faster HDUI" statement. My Elite is slow as molasses compared to my 2 tuner Premiere for both HDUI (Flash based) as well as the Flash apps. I personally can't wait to dump my 4 tuner unit in favor of the next hopefully faster hardware platform. Currently I use my Mini as a front end to the Elite so I don't have to deal with the slowness. But I'm probably much pickier than most when it comes to UI responsiveness.


First I said that I think, not that I know, just seems faster to me, 2nd I am talking about the TP-4 not the TPXL-4, never had the TPXL-4 so I know nothing about that unit. I don't have a working TP to make a speed comparison so I could be incorrect about the TP-4 HDUI being faster than the TP itself but to me it is faster so I am using it now in place of the SDUI that I was using before I got the TP-4s.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I have both and they both seem about the same to me. The XL4 might be a tiny bit slower, but not noticeably. Both are too slow for my liking. I'd much rather have a full blown TiVo box with the speed of the Mini.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

lessd said:


> First I said that I think, not that I know, just seems faster to me, 2nd I am talking about the TP-4 not the TPXL-4, never had the TPXL-4 so I know nothing about that unit. I don't have a working TP to make a speed comparison so I could be incorrect about the TP-4 HDUI being faster than the TP itself but to me it is faster so I am using it now in place of the SDUI that I was using before I got the TP-4s.


 Sorry, no offense intended. I used to get mad at my Elite for being so sluggish so this subject always strikes a nerve. I now rarely interact with my Elite UI at all as it's relegated to essentially a headless recording device. I still get hit by the all tuner failure issue that others are seeing once in a while and have to reboot the darn thing, which only adds to my frustration with these 4 tuner units. That's why I can't wait to dump it in favor of hopefully faster and more reliable future TiVo 4+ tuner hardware. I don't have such issues with my 2 tuner unit but it could just well be I got my Elite from a bad lot so my experience is not typical.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I use a Mini at the location of my main Elite. So I don't normally watch content directly from that Elite. But I've not run into any tuner failure issues on either of my Elites.


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

When I went from the Premiere to the Premiere 4 using all the same connections and cablecard, I noticed that the menus are a tad faster too.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> I use a Mini at the location of my main Elite. So I don't normally watch content directly from that Elite. But I've not run into any tuner failure issues on either of my Elites.


I'd consider that if the Mini could access the To Do List and SP Manager on the host Elite.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I'd consider that if the Mini could access the To Do List and SP Manager on the host Elite.


 I do most of my scheduling, conflict management, SP management etc. remotely from work using kmttg, or you can use the iOS app. Only thing missing is an RPC command to reboot the unit via software (which actually mindrpc protocol does have such a command but it's disallowed via the RPC network remote). Still, yes it's stupid the Mini doesn't have access to that functionality since it's clearly easily available.


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## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

lessd said:


> Also a faster Ethernet port (1Gb) and, I think, a somewhat faster HDUI. This is for the TP-4 as I never had the TPXL-4.


Are you sure about that? I got an XL4 and new cat 6 ethernet cables and it shows up as a 100Mbit connection, not a 1Gbit. I thought I tried multiple cables and there was no change. The speed is more than adequate, but I was hoping it was 1Gbit...


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

the P4 is 1GB... not sure about the elite


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

compnurd said:


> the P4 is 1GB... not sure about the elite


They both have a 1 Gb external port on them, but they are both effectively 100Mb. Internally, the connection is 100Mb. (Unless they hooked up both and bonded them, then it would be 200Mb, which I doubt they did.)


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## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

Dr_Zoidberg said:


> Are you sure about that? I got an XL4 and new cat 6 ethernet cables and it shows up as a 100Mbit connection, not a 1Gbit. I thought I tried multiple cables and there was no change. The speed is more than adequate, but I was hoping it was 1Gbit...


I went back and checked, I had not tried swapping cables. After trying a different one, I now have the 1Gbit link light on my switch.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

1Gbs wont matter for normal TiVo functions. The only place it matters is if you're using MoCa bridging. MoCa is 200Mbps so having a 1Gbs connection will allow the bridge to work a little faster. However even if you have all possible streams coming in/out of a TiVo it doesn't even get close to the 100Mbps connection speed, let alone 1Gbps.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mrsean said:


> When I went from the Premiere to the Premiere 4 using all the same connections and cablecard, I noticed that the menus are a tad faster too.


OK!! so maybe I not nuts for saying the same thing.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> 1Gbs wont matter for normal TiVo functions. The only place it matters is if you're using MoCa bridging. MoCa is 200Mbps so having a 1Gbs connection will allow the bridge to work a little faster. However even if you have all possible streams coming in/out of a TiVo it doesn't even get close to the 100Mbps connection speed, let alone 1Gbps.


When the ELite first came out I was able to hit peaks of around 130Mb/s. But that was also while at the limit of concurrent streams coming into the Elite from other TiVos as well as a concurrent download from Amazon.

I think they've since put a limit on things since at one point if you went past a certain limit it would cause the Elite to reboot. But this was also when I had a bunch of Premieres to transfer from. I could not come anywhere close to the limit any more since I sold all but one of those two tuner Premieres i used to own.


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