# No Multi-Room Streaming for existing Tivo DVR owners?! :(



## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

For a while now, Tivo has promoted the fact that several of their Tivo DVR models (EDGE, BOLT, Roamio and Premiere) can do Multi-Room Streaming to Android devices by installing the Tivo app from the Google Play Store.

It came as a shock that Tivo Stream 4k does *NOT* support Multi-Room Streaming.

The app forced on Tivo Stream 4k users as pre-installed that is literilly called "Stream" does NOT have Tivo DVR Multi-Room *Stream*ing functionality at all. It seems to be created with the idea that all existing Tivo DVR owners should be getting Sling TV cloud DVRs instead?

Even more surprising is the Tivo app for Android in the Google Play store is stated to be "not compatible with [the Tivo Stream 4k] device." Ironically, competitor DVR apps in the Google Play store of Tablo and HDHomeRun are compatible with the Tivo Stream 4k. Seriously, Tivo DVR app for Android appears to be the only DVR app NOT compatible with Tivo Stream 4k.

This sends a message to existing Tivo DVR owners that they were not a priority during the development of this product. This makes it appear Tivo considers the Tivo DVR to be a legacy product not worth supporting with new Tivo product offerings.

It might be that this wasn't intentional and was just gross incompetence--but it would be nice to have an official knowledgebase article from Tivo acknowledging the problem and giving a timeline to providing a fix. So far, I can't find any such knowledgebase article.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

I'm guessing you've been living under a rock for the past so many months. 

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

dbpaddler said:


> I'm guessing you've been living under a rock for the past so many months.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


I live in an area that has a higher rate of virus spread than the national average so your guess is correct. However, I usually keep discussion of living under a rock to other forums.

Do you have any insight that is helpful to why Tivo would leave out any ability to use Multi-Room Streaming from a Tivo DVR to the Tivo "Stream" 4k? Or any insight that could be considered helpful as to when to expect that to be available? Anything you can share that is on-topic would be appreciated.

Sent from my [not a Samsung Note, I like my devices not to catch fire] using Mozilla Firefox (does not cause fire despite the name)


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

chilinux said:


> I live in an area that has a higher rate of virus spread than the national average so your guess is correct. However, I usually keep discussion of living under a rock to other forums.
> 
> Do you have any insight that is helpful to why Tivo would leave out any ability to use Multi-Room Streaming from a Tivo DVR to the Tivo "Stream" 4k? Or any insight that could be considered helpful as to when to expect that to be available? Anything you can share that is on-topic would be appreciated.
> 
> Sent from my [not a Samsung Note, I like my devices not to catch fire] using Mozilla Firefox (does not cause fire despite the name)


TiVo seeks 'win' in the streaming wars with new OTT device | Light Reading


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## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

pfiagra said:


> TiVo seeks 'win' in the streaming wars with new OTT device | Light Reading


Well, I truly have been under a rock too long. I assumed when Rivo spent $1 billion to acquire Tivo that things would solidify with company and it's direction. Clearly that isn't the case. I completely missed David Shull becoming CEO and Xperi merging in.

The article indirectly answers the question if DVR customers were unintentionally left out as the focus for the Tivo Stream 4k functionality. I couldn't imagine it would have been hard for them to add Multi-Room Streaming to the Tivo Stream 4k if they wanted to, they already have an android app to do it. It just is clear for from the article that David Shull doesn't consider Tivo DVR customers to be important anymore.

This also helps explain why the Tivo Stream feels like they just rushed to market an existing Android TV device from SEI Robotics.

I also don't understand what he believes Xperi will do in the car entertainment system that hadn't already been considered by Microsoft, Apple and Google which have each gotten involved in that area. It is also an area that information security researchers have taken interest in and have found flaws with existing products. What is being purposed by David Shull sounds more complex than any of the existing car entertainment system which should have a larger exposure surface for a security attack. Leaving known security vulnerabilities in place for four months (the Tivo Stream 4k doesn't appear to have gotten a security patch updates since April) is not acceptable when it is a car involved.

It is also chilling to hear the name David Shull as being the CEO of Tivo now. He previously was CEO of The Weather Channel from 2016 to 2018. Also in 2016, articles started appearing indicating TWC was supplying location tracking to JOURNEYfx heavy geostalking analytics without reasonably disclosing that use to the users of the TWC app. The LA city attorney ended up finding grounds to file legal action in 2019 for TWC having employed "deceptive, misleading, and unfair statements and omissions through The Weather Channel App." While David Shull had already left TWC once the legal complaint reached the courts, the behavior considered in violation took place while David Shull was still CEO. It has also been stated in some articles that this geostalking of TWC users was a factor in getting IBM to buy TWC.

I really have to wonder if David Shull is acting in good faith in disclosures related privacy and personal information now or if the TWC style behavior has carrier over to Tivo with TWC's former CEO. Also, is there information that was implied to be used in a limited scope that is being used more broadly to have encouraged Xperi to merge with Tivo (much like happen with TWC being bought by IBM during David Shull's time at TWC).

The conclusions I personally am reaching regarding the current and future state of Tivo is, in my opinion, extremely upsetting.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Yes -- observations that were had here back when everything went down. The simple fact is that 3rd-party DVR use is a declining userbase. TiVo is already moving out of the hardware business and looks to get some of that increasing userbase streaming pie. Could be rough at this stage of the game. In my opinion - keeping the TiVo name was a mistake. TiVo is a known name (at least for some over a certain age), but it's too closely associated with old-school methods of 'recording' that are seen as outdated by people acclimated to a streaming world. I think a better idea would have been to rebrand entirely and make a clear indication that they're not holding onto the past. Failing that - a full-on public withdrawal from boxes would generate some buzz. They've already moved mostly to a metadata/patent company and have stated they are moving out of hardware (you can't even get a new OTA model from TiVo anymore but have to go to the ChannelMaster site). However, all of those legacy cable customers prevent a full retirement of the name, but a full exit from retail is certainly in the future.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

Hey. Consider us lucky. How many people can say they were part of the death of a company that became a verb for a while. People used the word Tivo to mean "record". That's no small feat.


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## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

By death of a company do you mean the Tivo product/brand will die or that Xperi will die?

I don't think Xperi is going to have a problem remaining profitable. It just seems like Xperi may eventually exit the direct to consumer product market.

In terms of the number of people that can say they were part of the death of a major brand, there still exists people that owned BetaMAX. Sony abandon the community of BetaMAX owners in favor of a new incompatible Hi8 video products. There was no clean migration path for their existing customers and Hi8 didn't provide enough advantages over the saturated market of video tape recording systems. Sony is not dead as a company but history remembers VHS as the "winner" and no one remember Hi8 video.

I see history as repeating itself. There is no clean migration path from Tivo DVR to the Tivo Stream 4k. It should have be trivial to modify the existing Tivo app on the Play Store to support Android TV and the Tivo Stream 4k to supply DVR Multi-Room Streaming. Instead, Stream 4k seems to be Tivo's Hi8 moment. They have a product that ignores their existing customers and is entering the saturated market of established streaming devices.


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## RyanL (Apr 28, 2019)

chilinux said:


> For a while now, Tivo has promoted the fact that several of their Tivo DVR models (EDGE, BOLT, Roamio and Premiere) can do Multi-Room Streaming to Android devices by installing the Tivo app from the Google Play Store.
> 
> It came as a shock that Tivo Stream 4k does *NOT* support Multi-Room Streaming.
> 
> ...


I've known for a while that there was no Tivo app for the Tivo Stream but came around here to see if there has been any progress with it (sideload apk or whatnot). Are there any decent android sticks out there that can get the tivo app on them since the fire stick & roku (which were supposed to get the tivo app over a year ago on but that never materialized)? Speaking of those apps that were supposed to come out for the Roku and Fire; some people around here speculated that the whole reason those apps were abandoned was because tivo had their very own streaming device just for that purpose in the works. Obviously it didn't go down like they said or like I had hoped for. Well that was that.

And all this talk about DVRs being a dying breed of electronics, I just wanted to inject my own 2 cents. I would think now would be one of the best times for them (especially OTA). Seems to be more cord cutters now than ever. And streaming is a complete joke any way you slice it. It was fine 10 years + ago when there was Netflix and Hulu because for one, they were very cheap. FF to now and not only is the content very limited (all the providers wanted a piece so they keep their own shows for their own streaming services now - Hulu doesn't even have all the major shows they used to), but those services also increased in price. Less content but more $. People moved to streaming because cable and satellite was getting too expensive but now streaming is more expensive. Go figure.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

chilinux said:


> For a while now, Tivo has promoted the fact that several of their Tivo DVR models (EDGE, BOLT, Roamio and Premiere) can do Multi-Room Streaming to Android devices by installing the Tivo app from the Google Play Store.
> 
> It came as a shock that Tivo Stream 4k does *NOT* support Multi-Room Streaming.
> 
> ...


If they provide a OTT app to stream from a legacy Tivo, then sales of the Tivo Mini would drop significantly, since any other OTT streaming device has better streaming apps than a Mini.


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## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

shwru980r said:


> If they provide a OTT app to stream from a legacy Tivo, then sales of the Tivo Mini would drop significantly, since any other OTT streaming device has better streaming apps than a Mini.


I get the feeling that the majority of sales of the Tivo Mini has already taken place. It was released in 2013 and the most interesting update, support for 4k, was added back in 2017. Since then they have added a backlit remote. Despite it's $200 price, they have never been able to add wifi support to it. I think majority of people that saw value in paying for the Tivo Mini and have the required Coax or Ethernet outlet to plug it into have already done so. If continued sales of the Tivo Mini was important they really should have included wifi in it's latest hardware revision.

It also does not make sense to try to make an entry into the saturated streaming device market with a device that has an arbitarily capped set of features because it might canibalised sale of legacy products. A large part of the success of the iPad was because Apple was willing to potentially canibalise sales of their own more expensive products.

I currently believe it is more likely they have an agreement with Sling TV to promote it and selected not to support Tivo DVRs as part of that agreement.



RyanL said:


> I've known for a while that there was no Tivo app for the Tivo Stream but came around here to see if there has been any progress with it (sideload apk or whatnot). Are there any decent android sticks out there that can get the tivo app on them since the fire stick & roku (which were supposed to get the tivo app over a year ago on but that never materialized)? Speaking of those apps that were supposed to come out for the Roku and Fire; some people around here speculated that the whole reason those apps were abandoned was because tivo had their very own streaming device just for that purpose in the works. Obviously it didn't go down like they said or like I had hoped for. Well that was that.


It is possible to sideload the Tivo app onto Android TV but it doesn't do much good. The app doesn't recognize the rotation of the TV so it displays a login sideways. It also doesn't recognize the Android TV remote control so it sits waiting for the user to use a touchscreen that doesn't exist. It is up to Tivo to revise their app accordingly.

Discussion of an app for Roku and Apple TV only to later indicate an Android TV app was Tivo's focus seem to have largely come from Tivo's VP of Consumer Products and Service Ted Malone. He has since left Tivo around Feb to later be replaced by a long time employee of of Xperi named Geir Skaaden. He has a twitter account with some audio related tweets in 2018 but nothing since then. I can't find any information on what his vision for Tivo is or what to expect from him. Without any recent interviews or press releases from him, we can only guess what direction the company will be going in.

Another way to look at things is the Xperi board of directors. Three of the board members are from Tivo's previous board of directors and may still hold the same vision for the company that we do. However, four of the board members seem like the type of people I would expect do not care much about direct to home consumer products and services. I guess we will have to wait and see how things play out.

This is Tivo/Xperi's own forum so maybe we will get lucky and someone from the company will join the conversion!


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

chilinux said:


> I get the feeling that the majority of sales of the Tivo Mini has already taken place. It was released in 2013 and the most interesting update, support for 4k, was added back in 2017. Since then they have added a backlit remote. Despite it's $200 price, they have never been able to add wifi support to it. I think majority of people that saw value in paying for the Tivo Mini and have the required Coax or Ethernet outlet to plug it into have already done so. If continued sales of the Tivo Mini was important they really should have included wifi in it's latest hardware revision.
> 
> It also does not make sense to try to make an entry into the saturated streaming device market with a device that has an arbitarily capped set of features because it might canibalised sale of legacy products. A large part of the success of the iPad was because Apple was willing to potentially canibalise sales of their own more expensive products.
> 
> ...


The Mini Vox and Mini Lux have WiFi capability with an additional WiFi adapter that can be purchased from Tivo, but you have to use the TE4 interface.

You can side load the Rotation Locker or similar app to resolve the orientation issue of the side loaded android tivo app.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

chilinux said:


> This is Tivo/Xperi's own forum so ...


It is not. TCF isn't affiliated with the company, aside from a common interest among the forum's users.


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## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

shwru980r said:


> The Mini Vox and Mini Lux have WiFi capability with an additional WiFi adapter that can be purchased from Tivo, but you have to use the TE4 interface.
> 
> You can side load the Rotation Locker or similar app to resolve the orientation issue of the side loaded android tivo app.


Having the option to pay an additional $60 for a Tivo Wifi 5 USB Adapter is not really the same as having Wifi included. The grand total for a Tivo Lux with Wifi adapter comes to two hundred and sixty dollars.

Rotation is the least of your problems with using a sideloaded Tivo app on Android TV. Refusing to go into landscape mode is just one example of how the Tivo app needs to be revised for Android TV. Even disregarding the rotation issue, you still need to bring the login box into focus by creating a touch screen event on a device that has no touch screen.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

chilinux said:


> Having the option to pay an additional $60 for a Tivo Wifi 5 USB Adapter is not really the same as having Wifi included. The grand total for a Tivo Lux with Wifi adapter comes to two hundred and sixty dollars.
> 
> Rotation is the least of your problems with using a sideloaded Tivo app on Android TV. Refusing to go into landscape mode is just one example of how the Tivo app needs to be revised for Android TV. Even disregarding the rotation issue, you still need to bring the login box into focus by creating a touch screen event on a device that has no touch screen.


I agree the mini plus WiFi solution is too expensive, but the adapter just pugs into the Ethernet port. Could probably just have an additional outlet installed by the cable company and then return the set top box and use Moca.

I was able to login on my fire tv 3rd gen pendant. I used a Bluetooth mouse. The fire tv will pair with a Bluetooth mouse right out of the box. I was able to watch a couple of shows. It's really clunky. I have to use a combination of the fire tv remote and the Bluetooth mouse to navigate. I only used it once. It's not practical.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

I really am happy I ditched my equipement and went to an hdhomerun for OTA. I don't have to complain about the lack of apps, streaming devices, switching inputs, crap tuners and so on that get talked about anymore.

And with the fcc rule change it seems like everyone is on borrowed time and there will be the hanger's on, and this forum will become a swap shop for old units and parts. 

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## RyanL (Apr 28, 2019)

dbpaddler said:


> I really am happy I ditched my equipement and went to an hdhomerun for OTA. I don't have to complain about the lack of apps, streaming devices, switching inputs, crap tuners and so on that get talked about anymore.
> 
> And with the fcc rule change it seems like everyone is on borrowed time and there will be the hanger's on, and this forum will become a swap shop for old units and parts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


What FCC rule change are you talking about, transition to 4K?


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

RyanL said:


> What FCC rule change are you talking about, transition to 4K?


The one where cable companies aren't required to support cable cards anymore.

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## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

Here is an article:
FCC Abandons CableCARD/Navigation Devices Rule Review | Multichannel News

Cable industry has done it's best to be in compliance with the CableCard requirement while sabotaging it's adoption. They avoid training their staff on how to correctly do the CableCard pairing process to give the appearance of incompetence to avoid the government mandate to provide support.

Multiple Comcast customer service agents have told me that once a CableCard had been paired once that the CableCard can never be reused again. This would be a problem when they would send out a tech with only 3 CableCard of which all of them had be previously used by other customers. The tech would then use this as an excuse to reschedule for next week only to have the same problem all over again. After a month of rescheduling to avoid honoring the FCC requirement, they eventually did escalate the problem to a specialist who admitted that previous pairing can always be deleted and CableCards can be reused.

Tivo for their part was of no assistance with this issue either. Tivo customer service would gladly replace a brand new Tivo with a refurbished one instead of advice how to navigate the Comcast systemic incompetence. This is despite Tivo including a notice with the DVRs that cable companies are required by law to support CableCard and to let them know of problems with the cable company. We were later able to prove that the brand new Tivo was never the problem but customer service never was interested in that feedback.

Biggest problem for the industry seems to be that CableCard allowed for creating devices that could skip advertisements. Android TV and Roku both use Widevine DRM to allow apps to be in control of if advertisements are forced to be watched or can be skipped. Also, the FCC restriction on advertisement loudness mandate for broadcast TV doesn't apply for Android TV. The FCC's claim this deregulation is providing innovation and alternatives that are to the consumer's benefit is just complete and utter Ajit Pai (please excuse the swear, I am frustrated).

Ultimately the cable industry fought the FCC regulation and manufactored a situation such that the data shows lack of consumer adoption. Great for them for proving that FCC regulations don't actually apply to them! And not so great for the rest of us.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

If the cable companies are able to replicate their current linear TV lineup via iptv and its cheaper for them to maintain, change, update, adapt and so forth, why is it a bad thing they want to do away with cable cards? Removing the fact you're a Tivo owner from the equation. 

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## xberk (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't think it's a bad thing for a private company to pursue profit right up to the point where they become a monopoly. In my neighborhood, if you want cable, you have a single choice. Hopefully, IPTV will bring some choice. I think choice is always a good thing but government mandated choices (like cable cards) need constant review and should not be thought of as permanent. From my view, cable cards are a very good thing because they allow us to have Tivo DVR's, but in the bigger picture, maybe they need to go to bring us something better (IPTV) Very few of us out here in TV land are qualified to make that decision -- BUT -- we certainly have the right to express our self interest. I STILL WANT MY TIVO and MY CABLE CARD !!! 

The question is should the cable company be allowed to grow to be both your Internet service provider, your IPTV provider and so on down the chain so that one company owns all the links in the chain that brings you, internet access, news, sports, weather and entertainment. Liberty onto license. No joke.


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## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

dbpaddler said:


> If the cable companies are able to replicate their current linear TV lineup via iptv and its cheaper for them to maintain, change, update, adapt and so forth, why is it a bad thing they want to do away with cable cards? Removing the fact you're a Tivo owner from the equation.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Except they aren't simply replicating their linear TV lineup in a way that the customer retains all of the same rights.

CableCard decodes broadcast packets and returns the resulting video available for customer fair-use.

This provides the customer the following capabilities:
(1) Some degree of privacy from the cable company
(2) Ability to skip advertisements
(3) Ability to fast forward or rewind playback of the content
(4) Ability to continue to view recorded content during cable company service outages
(5) Ability to continue to view recorded content after a specific service stops making it available
(6) Ability to continue to view recorded content after canelling cable service
(7) Ability to continue to view recorded content in a different region

These are all fair-use rights consumers have had for personal use of the video content they pay to have access to ever since the court cast of Sony Corp of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. or also known as the "Betamax case."

It is technically possible to provide all of that via a multicast IPTV standard. However, cable companies are doing more than just replicating the lineup via a different way. They are "fixing" the consumer fair-use rights they don't like and leverage additional DMCA provisions that CableCard requirements didn't allow them to.

Take Xfinity Stream app for example:

(1) They can track exactly what you watch, when part you pause at, how long you pause, when you stop, etc.
(2) For several programs they force advertisements to play by disallowing fast forward or rewind
(3) For some programs they disallow fast forward and rewind *completely* for an entire program such that if the playback fails for "unkown error" in the middle the customer has to watch the entire program from the beginning
(4) All app content is inaccessable during any of Comcast's frequent service disruptions
(5) App content becomes unavailable as soon as a channel stop providing it outside of the control of the customer
(6) All app content is inaccessable after canelling cable service
(7) App content is region controlled. If the cable company decides you can't watch your home sports team from a hotel in an another city, there is nothing you can do about it.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Since when did cable come with a list of rights? Did I miss that somewhere in the Bill of?

Did I miss something in all the terms of agreements from xfinity or fios that said they owe me something? You guys act like they owe you as a Tivo owner. Only things they owe anything to is their bottom line and overall infrastructure.

All the complaining and justification on your end is just sour grapes. Just because you want all those "features" you listed, doesn't mean they are under an obligation to offer them or give the ability to offer them through a 3rd party device. ;

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## chilinux (Sep 3, 2020)

dbpaddler said:


> Since when did cable come with a list of rights? Did I miss that somewhere in the Bill of?
> 
> Did I miss something in all the terms of agreements from xfinity or fios that said they owe me something? You guys act like they owe you as a Tivo owner. Only things they owe anything to is their bottom line and overall infrastructure.
> 
> ...


I am having a hard time telling if you are just trolling or are completely serious. For now I will take you seriously.

Since 1966 the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has had jurisdiction over cable companies and has over time enacted regulations to give customers of cable companies specific rights. For cable to work, coax is run through a mix of public and *private* property under an agreement known as a "right of way." The FCC should help strike a balance between what the people give for the cable companies to have these agreement (several times in a monopoly position for the region) and what the public should expect in return.

In the case of CableCard, the creators (Cablelabs) had to satify specific requirements from the FCC on how it functioned such that my previous list of "features" could be available to subscribers. And as a coax cable company, they used to litterly owe me the ability and the previous chairman of the FCC, Tom Wheeler, continued to try to expand the rights of what the public should expect from cable companies.

However, consumer rights has oddly become political. As you have said, my complaining and justification is just "sour grapes" which seems very similar to the view of the new FCC chairman Ajit Pai. He has promoted that deregulation will help the cable company bottom line which will translate into better infrastructure and jobs. But it hasn't really worked out that way. One of the deregulations include rules for how quickly cell phone companies must restore service before getting fined. The obvious result was AT&T laid off employees that would be used to restore service in favor of using outside contractors "as needed." When a hurricane hit Florida, there wasn't enough time to get the number of contractors to restore service quickly. There also was no longer any regulation giving them incentive to do so. Instead, the delay in restoring service in some area of Florida was the longest it had ever been.

This is just one example of how Ajit Pai's theoretical results of more jobs and better infrastructure via deregulation has not worked out that way.

So, dbpaddler, you say that the "only things they owe anything to is their bottom line and overall infrastructure." That has been only half true. The do owe their investors to address their bottom line. I am not seeing them "owe" us overall infrastrucutre as can be shown by the increase frequency of service disruptions. And with this latest change, anyone expecting CableCard regulations/results also are just left with "sour grapes" as well.

I really am having a hard time with that Ajit Pai, having worked for Verizon and saw how the really operate internally, really can believe that regional telecomm monopolies can be self-regulated by the marketplace.

In grand scheme of things, of the total negative impact Ajti Pai has had, killing CableCard regulations is just throwing a pebble in the ocean. I probably should just get over having the features I came to expect from CableCard. But this is just yet another reminder of how much we lost to regulations on critical infrastructure required for the USA to compete in the world economy as well as infrastructure required by several to continue to do their jobs during a pandemic.

As you have said, we still have OTA and the regulations allowing companies like SiliconDust to produce equipment that can interoperate with OTA. We will see how long that continues. Companies have lobbied for a long time making OTA (also known as ATSC) include a "broadcast flag" protection system to control what equipment you are permitted to use on a program by program basis. Now that these companies have gotten what they wanted regarding CableCard, I wouldn't be surprised if "broadcast flag" is back on the agenda to help reduce what an OTA device from Tivo or a HDHomeRun is permitted to re-transmit to a hard drive or across a network connection. But have fun with it while it lasts.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

chilinux said:


> I am having a hard time telling if you are just trolling or are completely serious. For now I will take you seriously.
> 
> Since 1966 the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has had jurisdiction over cable companies and has over time enacted regulations to give customers of cable companies specific rights. For cable to work, coax is run through a mix of public and *private* property under an agreement known as a "right of way." The FCC should help strike a balance between what the people give for the cable companies to have these agreement (several times in a monopoly position for the region) and what the public should expect in return.
> 
> ...


Think you're missing the part where I'm pointing out the "features" mentioned that tivo really provided as the conduit for your cable service. All the *****ing is about the features one will lose by not being able to use tivo. And again, none of them are rights you have by choosing a cable provider.

Again, cable cards are antiquated tech. They are not part of their future plans for their products, and it's time they go away. The only people to complain are the tivo crowd or if you have an hdhomerun prime or if there is another 3rd party cable card based tuner.

Again, this is the only crowd that gives a crap because you are losing functionality. Why does the cable company need to continue devoting resources for old tech for a very small percentage of their user base?

How long is Microsoft or Apple supposed to support older versions of their OS? How long is Google and Apple supposed to support older version of Android and iOS? When is the appropriate time to tell users, suck it up and buy a new phone already.

So when is the appropriate time for them to streamline their distribution model and stop supporting old technology who's time has really passed? They're already taking steps to limit support with less training, limiting new plans that utilize them and so on.

Every business is going to lobby to the govt to do things in their favor. The vast majority of people don't care or don't notice to even care. Shocking, people here do because they use tivo so it affects them more. Again, a minority by a lot in their # of subscriptions. And if you threaten to leave, cancel or what not, they'll hold the door open for you and kick you on the way out.

So even if you do whatever to try and fight, or complain and whine incessantly, it accomplishes what? Besides the relief of venting.

And again, I'm pointing to this list of "features" posted that would go by the way side. None of which are "rights" given to you by being a subscriber. They're advanced features given by a third party product to make their product more enjoyable for you to use.

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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

And good luck getting a broadcast flag enabled. This isn't the old days. All the software based tuner apps would easily circumvent it anyway. Cable companies aren't the broadcasters. Good luck for a cable lobbyist to have an affect on what the consumer can do with OTA broadcasts. Broadcast companies already have pay services with content not available via OTA, so I don't see them making a big push on what we do with their broadcasts once they hit our device. And if anyone wants their pay content that badly they're either paying for it or pirating it already. Or doing a free or cheap trial and binging it after all episodes are released. And then rinse and repeat.

Regardless, I'll put my faith in EPIC and other privacy advocates to fight the good fight on our behalf. They lobby too you know. 

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## RyanL (Apr 28, 2019)

dbpaddler said:


> The one where cable companies aren't required to support cable cards anymore.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


I'm an OTA guy which is why I never paid attention to that sort of thing. Thanks for responding though.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

RyanL said:


> I'm an OTA guy which is why I never paid attention to that sort of thing. Thanks for responding though.


I did cable while I could still do cheap economy packages for $60ish. Now they all want near $100 or more out the door so Verizon gets $40 from me for internet and that's it.

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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

dbpaddler said:


> Since when did cable come with a list of rights? Did I miss that somewhere in the Bill of?
> 
> Did I miss something in all the terms of agreements from xfinity or fios that said they owe me something? You guys act like they owe you as a Tivo owner. Only things they owe anything to is their bottom line and overall infrastructure.
> 
> ...


Is there a reason you are on this forum? You proudly stated you got rid of your Tivo equipment and this forum will be just for "hangers on".


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## xberk (Dec 3, 2011)

>> This isn't the old days. All the software based tuner apps would easily circumvent it anyway. Cable companies aren't the broadcasters. Good luck for a cable lobbyist to have an affect on what the consumer can do with OTA broadcasts.

I know very little on this whole subject ..* All I know is I like recording shows and playing them back when convenient for ME*. Tivo does this best for me and I will stick with my TIVOs until the end or until something better comes along.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

mattyro7878 said:


> Is there a reason you are on this forum? You proudly stated you got rid of your Tivo equipment and this forum will be just for "hangers on".


Out with the old tech, and in with the new. 200 or so movies and series on that roamio pro. Have some watching to do of things that aren't replicated on Netflix, Prime & Disney. Then it's off to eBay for the Roamio Pro.

Have three of the "tivo" S4k's. And one android tv. So that's the extent of my needed equipment now outside of the mini pc as the server which is sitting on the back of the android tv. In fact, I could fit all of my current hardware inside that roamio pro. And that's not accounting for the space of the old Mini's.
















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## xberk (Dec 3, 2011)

I have two Roamios and two old Premiere units.. what has been really useful is the ability to upload content to these using pyTivo ( I use these old Tivos as storage only). Of course, this may be replaced by the ability of the Tivo Stream 4k to recognize and access larger storage drives (like 4TB) as external drives AND EVEN BETTER Network drives. But, meanwhile, I have huge archives of content already stored on the old TIVOS and you cannot beat the easy of access to them, nor the fluid video controls. So far, I'm keeping my old Tivos .. along side my new TS4K device.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

xberk said:


> I have two Roamios and two old Premiere units.. what has been really useful is the ability to upload content to these using pyTivo. Of course, this may be replaced by the ability of the Tivo Stream 4k to recognize and access larger storage drives (like 4TB) as external drives AND EVEN BETTER Network drives. But, meanwhile, I have huge archives of content already stored on the old TIVOS and you cannot beat the easy of access to them, nor the fluid video controls. So far, I'm keeping my old Tivos ..


I believe it already does if you use a microUSB OTG cable. If you want to do it via usb-c, it's a waiting game with Google and Tivo. I mention Google because it's still an android tv box at heart, and they're mainly responsible for driver support at that level. And with no other Android tv box having usb-c, and I'm guessing it'll be doubtful Sabrina does, it could be a long wait. I guess on Sabrina because they already have an Ethernet adapter via the microUSB charger for the Ultra, and I see them taking the path of least resistance rather than actually being innovative and making the charging connector usb-c.

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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

chilinux said:


> By death of a company do you mean the Tivo product/brand will die or that Xperi will die?
> 
> I don't think Xperi is going to have a problem remaining profitable. It just seems like Xperi may eventually exit the direct to consumer product market.
> 
> ...


I proudly went out and bought a new HD-DVD player. That ended soon with BluRay eclipsing it.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

mattyro7878 said:


> I proudly went out and bought a new HD-DVD player. That ended soon with BluRay eclipsing it.


I still have my Toshiba A30 and about 30 movies and a few series setup in the movie room. Will be binging Battlestar Galactica at some point.

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