# Do we think updates are over for Premieres?



## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Now that Roamio is out, is Premiere dead?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There is a planned Fall update that will bring Dynamic Tuner Allocation for the Minis and should also include the new HD Wish List screens. Beyond that no one really knows. If history is any indicator I wouldn't expect many more updates. Typically they'll release maybe one feature update to the old generation and then maybe 1-2 bug fix type releases and that's it. Although it's possible this time could be different. The Premiere is capable of running the same software as the Roamio and Mini, and they have a lot of them deployed to MSO partners, so that might help keep the Premieres in the loop for a bit longer then discontinued models of the past.


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

b_scott said:


> Now that Roamio is out, is Premiere dead?


I am still of the belief, however delusional it may be, that they will finish the Premiere HD screens someday..................... maybe the same time they finish the Roamio HD screens?


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

If they don't fix the Netflix app on the Premiere then I will be quite dissatisfied. I used Netflix on one of my Minis for the first time last night and wow - what a difference. Flawless streaming and immediate response to remote trickplay commands, while the Premiere app only responds if and when it feels like it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Apparently the new Netflix app is still using Flash, so it's possible for it to be used on the Premiere units as well. The new YouTube app however is HTML5 and I don't think we'll ever see that ported back to the Premiere units.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

they have no incentive to make things better on the old systems they aren't currently marketing, IMO.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Loach said:


> If they don't fix the Netflix app on the Premiere then I will be quite dissatisfied. I used Netflix on one of my Minis for the first time last night and wow - what a difference. Flawless streaming and immediate response to remote trickplay commands, while the Premiere app only responds if and when it feels like it.


If the could improve the performance of Netflix on the Premier line, I suspect they would have some time ago. I think Netflix and Youtube are held back by an underpowered processor and they are as good as they are going to get.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I agree. We'll never see a performance increase on the Premiere. It's hardware bound and there is nothing they can do about it. If you want Mini like performance you need to upgrade to a Roamio.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

bradleys said:


> If the could improve the performance of Netflix on the Premier line, I suspect they would have some time ago. I think Netflix and Youtube are held back by an underpowered processor and they are as good as they are going to get.


But Netflix used to at least WORK before the 20.3.1 update. Yes, it was slow but it did not have the bugs that it has now.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Well, I know I'll never buy a Roamio unless they demonstrate that they can make the Premier I have work at least as well as it did before the 20.3 update introduced infinite problems with talking to the cable card. I'm not gonna spend any money for an upgrade to 6 tuners if they can't convince me they can get 2 tuners to work .


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## aeternal (Jul 3, 2013)

I am one of the unlucky ones who bought the XL4 back in May and thought wow.. 4 tuners this is great! A couple months later i see comcast came out with their X1 6 tuner device and then in august the Roamio debuts. Pretty damn frustrating to think you're finally getting up to par with everyone else only to have the resale value of the XL4 nosedive (i have a monthy subscription btw). 

That being said I do love the tivo brand and the community here is very friendly and helpful. To me it is all about the upsell. I am specifically waiting for DTA on the mini for premieres before I pick one up. Within a year i also plan on getting the roamio. So although i don't fit the criteria of a new customer I don't think tivo should abandon their existing user base. Try to squeeze as much as you can out of the old units and then i'm sure more people will tranisition over to the new models in time.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

tomhorsley said:


> Well, I know I'll never buy a Roamio unless they demonstrate that they can make the Premier I have work at least as well as it did before the 20.3 update introduced infinite problems with talking to the cable card. I'm not gonna spend any money for an upgrade to 6 tuners if they can't convince me they can get 2 tuners to work .


You may never get a Roamio then.

I jest, as this seems an odd requirement to me to need to make what you have better before you move to a better product. I expect that the issues log items from the May release will be addressed along with some new HD screens, but I would NOT expect the new update to be perfection.


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## sheshechic (Apr 14, 2012)

What if those of us that still have warranty left start using it to get them to fix the audio/video drop outs etc.?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

tomhorsley said:


> Well, I know I'll never buy a Roamio unless they demonstrate that they can make the Premier I have work at least as well as it did before the 20.3 update introduced infinite problems with talking to the cable card. I'm not gonna spend any money for an upgrade to 6 tuners if they can't convince me they can get 2 tuners to work .


An understandable position, however in my opinion taking that position hurts you allot more than it does TiVo. The difference between using my Roamio and my Premiere is like day and night (and I didn't dislike the Premiere). Life is just to short to use an inferior product if you don't have to.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> Life is just to short to use an inferior product if you don't have to.


With the cable card issues they current have on the Premiere and lots of notes in the Roamio forums about similar problems on them, I have no reason to imagine that 3 times as many tuners wouldn't mean three times as many problems .

I was hoping that the comcast firmware update would fix things from the other end, but I've also seen folks in these forums say they actually got a firmware update from comcast and 20.3 still shows the same problems as the old firmware.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

tomhorsley said:


> With the cable card issues they current have on the Premiere and lots of notes in the Roamio forums about similar problems on them, I have no reason to imagine that 3 times as many tuners wouldn't mean three times as many problems .
> 
> I was hoping that the comcast firmware update would fix things from the other end, but I've also seen folks in these forums say they actually got a firmware update from comcast and 20.3 still shows the same problems as the old firmware.


Certainly some good reasons to wait for a few updates and maybe a small price reduction but I can assure you the 2 units are amazedly different in day to day use.

I only have the base Roamio (OTA only) and have found the Roamio's performance very superior to my Premiere. In fact streaming shows from my Premiere to my Roamio is a noticeably superior experience over watching them directly on my Premiere. Not to mention that for OTA the Roamio's reception is better than all my other devices and it is much nicer (to my surprise) to have 4 tuners on one device instead of 6 tuners on 3 devices. My biggest problem now is figuring out what to do with all the shows saved on my 3 older HD TiVos (5.25TB total 99% full) so that I can sell them sometime before everyone figures out how much better the Roamios are .


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> An understandable position, however in my opinion taking that position hurts you allot more than it does TiVo. The difference between using my Roamio and my Premiere is like day and night (and I didn't dislike the Premiere). Life is just to short to use an inferior product if you don't have to.


Depends on what "you don't have to" means.

I jumped to the Tivo HD, then the Premiere, resulting from promises by Tivo that each subsequent unit would get better. To be honest, the performance of the Premiere is hardly better than the HD - the ONLY two things the Premiere provided that I care about whatsoever were extra tuners, and streaming/MRV (which it still has problems with).

Were it little or no cost to move from my XL4s/Premieres to the Roamio, then I'd agree. However, given the cost of lifetime sub plus the unit itself, it's hardly "little or no cost". As others here have described, resale prices of Premieres/Elites/XL4s with Lifetime have dropped significantly recently. So, if the XL4 for example is only a year or so old, it's not a "reasonable" decision. On the other hand, I think it's quite reasonable to expect Tivo to support what they have already sold before throwing more money at a new solution when the old one is not working as described.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

wmhjr said:


> Depends on what "you don't have to" means.


Everyone's situation will be different and everyone will have to decide for them selves how much upgrading to a Roamio is worth. For me if I get my lazy butt in gear my upgrade could be free has I now have a Premiere, TiVo HD, & Series 3 all with lifetime to sell to cover the $600 the Roamio cost me with lifetime. I was forced to keep both the TiVo HD & Series 3 when I bought the Premiere because the Premiere had way more reception issues and I did not feel like being short on tuners, however 4 is enough for me with OTA and the Roamio gets better reception then all of them.



wmhjr said:


> ... On the other hand, I think it's quite reasonable to expect Tivo to support what they have already sold before throwing more money at a new solution when the old one is not working as described.


Agreed - but I doubt the Premiere is every going to be good at much more than being a DVR it is just to under powered and really should have been upgraded/replaced in 2011 when the 4 tuner versions came out.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

My Dad use to always say.... You can't turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad. That seems to apply here. The Roamio runs basically the same software as the Premiere but it's infinitely better. It's still got a few quirks but I think TiVo learned from the mistake that is the Premiere and I have great confidence that they will fix the remaining quirks going forward.

Not upgrading because your Premiere doesn't work good is definitely hurting yourself more then it's hurting TiVo. I recommend you sell your Premiere now, if you can, before prices completely fall off a cliff and buy a Roamio. You'll be a lot happier TiVo user for it.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

The point is that the Premiere worked pretty good before TiVo's 20.3 software release, and as you point out, the Roamio is running essentially the same software, so as long as 20.3 is hopelessly screwed up with the comcast cable cards, there is absolutely zero reason to believe a Roamio won't also be hopelessly screwed up with the same comcast cable cards.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

And the point of this thread is that those issues you have are more likely to get fixed on the Roamio then the Premiere. Any performance issues you have will be fixed immediately as the Roamio hardware more then makes up for any software inefficiencies. CableCARD issues might be another story, but the Roamio is running a slightly newer version of the software so it's possible your issue is already fixed. Or not. But if it's not it'll be more likely to get fixed in the Roamio first. They've already released two software updates for the Roamio and have another one planned for next week. They are frantically fixing bugs in the Roamio software while the best we can hope for on the Premiere is an aggregated update sometime this "fall".

I understand you not wanting to give any more money to a company you feel didn't address your issues, but if you just want a working TiVo ASAP you're best bet it to buy a Roamio. Yu could always pick one up and if it doesn't fix your problem you could use the 30 day return period.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

We better receive a "Fall Update" so I can stop receiving "Channel not Available" message when tuning to channels.


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## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

I agree, but I think we might get some sort of small update and that'll be it. I dont think Tivo is going to work to fix the issues of the Premiere anymore. I even tried to Tweet and email Margret and asked her when possibly the fall update might come out, and its all been ignored. So glad March is just around the corner.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

timstack8969 said:


> We better receive a "Fall Update" so I can stop receiving "Channel not Available" message when tuning to channels.


Heck, I'd be content with a "fall back" update that restored the old pre-20.3 software, but they don't seem to be interested in even providing that.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

tomhorsley said:


> The point is that the Premiere worked pretty good before TiVo's 20.3 software release, and as you point out, the Roamio is running essentially the same software, so as long as 20.3 is hopelessly screwed up with the comcast cable cards, there is absolutely zero reason to believe a Roamio won't also be hopelessly screwed up with the same comcast cable cards.


I have comcast - what cable card issues are screwed up?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tomhorsley said:


> Heck, I'd be content with a "fall back" update that restored the old pre-20.3 software, but they don't seem to be interested in even providing that.


What changed in 20.3 for you?


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> What changed in 20.3 for you?


Before 20.3 I'd get a black screen or unauthorized channel maybe once every one or two months. The rumor was this was due to a firmware bug in the antique scientific atlanta cable cards comcast uses in the Boca/Delray region which have never had a firmware update.

After 20.3 I get the same errors if I channel surf through more than about 10 or 12 channels. It is incessant. I also get things like 1/2 second momentary blackouts in shows at random times. So 20.3 inflated the impact of this bug by a factor of about 1000.

There is absolutely no signal problem because I can always go to the cable card diagnostic screen and use the test channel feature to see the picture and sound coming in perfectly for a channel it just told me I couldn't get a second ago.

TiVo claims they have me on a priority update list to get the mythical update. Comcast claims they are going to roll out firmware updates in October. I'm anxiously awaiting whichever comes first to see if it has any effect .


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tomhorsley said:


> TiVo claims they have me on a priority update list to get the mythical update. Comcast claims they are going to roll out firmware updates in October. I'm anxiously awaiting whichever comes first to see if it has any effect .


A firmware update would be the better option. Expecting TiVo to work around some flaw in your CableCARD or tuning adapter, even if possible, is not really reasonable. The "fix" they put in for your flawed card could negatively effect some other card. It's a vicious cycle. You should hound your cable company to fix their broken cards, not blame TiVo for not being able to work around it.


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## kcossabo (Dec 8, 2007)

b_scott said:


> they have no incentive to make things better on the old systems they aren't currently marketing, IMO.


The incentive is my monthly subscription, or is TiVo giving away the new hardware like Verizon is? Cable Card + TiVo subscription is more than a multi-room DVR......

Been a TiVo owner since 2000, love it, still do, but tiered of halves.....

Amazon Video - Sorry not for Premier Amazon
Netflix - Rather us my AppleTV or CromeStick
New HD menus on the Premier, OMG no way I like to not wait that long between screens. 
and Little to no innovation (IMHO) on the web / iOS device front. Use iPad as a keyboard, is a plus, but why can I not just see what is new Series or 'subscribe to all premier episodes' .....

I can renew my subscription, and I ASSUME that is to support R&D on MY PLATFORM, or give up on a non-supported box, and move to the one from the cable provider....

My Premier is 2 years old, and if Factor the COST of the HARDWARE + Subscription + Cable card rental, I would GIVE UP on TiVo if the stopped developing for it.

That would be In My Humble Opinion the incentive.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

kcossabo said:


> The incentive is my monthly subscription, or is TiVo giving away the new hardware like Verizon is? Cable Card + TiVo subscription is more than a multi-room DVR......
> 
> Been a TiVo owner since 2000, love it, still do, but tiered of halves.....
> 
> ...


I would suggest that you get ready to rent a DVR from your cable provider then. Sooner or later TiVo will stop development for Premiere DVRs that is a 100% given, just as it is a 100% given that TiVo will at some point also stop development for Roamio DVRs.

We know there will be a fall update for the Premieres but after that I don't expect much except bug fixes. There is only so much they can do with the Premiere's hardware and I am guessing it is pretty much maxed out know (remember the processor and basic design is from 2009).

The up side is your TiVo and every other older model will continue to function as intended for as long as the hardware lasts, so unless you want features that only new hardware can provide there really is no reason to stop using it.


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## Eamus Catuli (Aug 9, 2010)

MeInDallas said:


> I even tried to Tweet and email Margret and asked her when possibly the fall update might come out, and its all been ignored. So glad March is just around the corner.


Check her tweets around the 2nd week of September and you 'll see "we are preparing an update for TiVo Premiere. It will be released this Fall". I suspect the exact date is still TBD.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> A firmware update would be the better option. Expecting TiVo to work around some flaw in your CableCARD or tuning adapter, even if possible, is not really reasonable. The "fix" they put in for your flawed card could negatively effect some other card. It's a vicious cycle. You should hound your cable company to fix their broken cards, not blame TiVo for not being able to work around it.


I would normally agree with that, but TiVo made things 1000 times worse with the 20.3 update, and I've seen reports in these forums of comcast customers who actually have gotten the new firmware seeing zero improvement in the way 20.3 behaves.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

atmuscarella said:


> We know there will be a fall update for the Premieres but after that I don't expect much except bug fixes. There is only so much they can do with the Premiere's hardware and I am guessing it is pretty much maxed out know (remember the processor and basic design is from 2009).


While I agree, one of the guys from RCN indicated that they had a meeting with TiVo and TiVo has promised to bring the Romaio UI design to their Premiere units in Q1 2014. There is no guarantee retail units will get the same update, but if they are actively working on the code there is at least a chance they will.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> While I agree, one of the guys from RCN indicated that they had a meeting with TiVo and TiVo has promised to bring the Romaio UI design to their Premiere units in Q1 2014. There is no guarantee retail units will get the same update, but if they are actively working on the code there is at least a chance they will.


That does make some sense, getting the Premiere, Mini, & Roamio to have the same HDUI makes allot of sense when you factor in TiVo's cable partners. I personally don't pay enough attention to how the UIs look to even notice the difference, but it is clear from many posts that many people do. However even if the UI"s appearance is updated I am not too sure it will result in any additional features being added to the Premiere.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> However even if the UI"s appearance is updated I am not too sure it will result in any additional features being added to the Premiere.


 I think the final main feature that will be added is Dynamic Tuner Allocation (DTA) for the 4 tuner units and would expect that to be the last feature update for series 4 units. It could also mean HTML5 support via built in Opera browser but I have a feeling it won't be enabled on such slow hardware. Series 4 units getting the Roamio UI changes would actually be a negative in my mind if it happens.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I believe we have also been promised some more HD screens, but I would not expect anything more than that.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yeah I'd think they would at least get the new Wish List screens as part of the DTA update. Beyond that I'm not sure.


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## buscuitboy (Aug 8, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> There is a planned Fall update that will bring Dynamic Tuner Allocation for the Minis and should also include the new HD Wish List screens. Beyond that no one really knows.


I recently got a 4-tuner Premiere and while I know they have said dynamic tuning for minis will arrive to these Premieres & would LOVE to see it, I have a bad feeling they will reverse their stance on this. Or at the very least, it will be delayed for 4-tuner Premieres & will come sometime in 2014. Just saying & PLEASE prove me wrong TiVo


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I know this is probably a massive understatement, but it doesn't seem right to sell the Premieres, extended warranties, lifetime service, and drop the whole thing in this short a period of time.

I know they've been out a little longer, but I've only had my Premieres for a year and a half. I have extended warranties on both of them and lifetime service. I am not one who tends to have a blown out sense of entitlement (not even close), but I feel entitled to having up to date, operable, software for at least 3-4 years. Even Microsoft still updates their OS for several years after they have brought out newer OS.

I get that they are just trying to sell Tivos, but it doesn't say much for their sense of customer care that they would completely drop one series in lieu of a new one, after people pay many hundreds of dollars for them. 

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that I should be able to take good care of my electronics and have them work at least long enough to pay for the lifetime service and get through the warranty. That would logically include up-to-date software.


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## tigerspy (Jan 29, 2004)

sharkster said:


> I know this is probably a massive understatement, but it doesn't seem right to sell the Premieres, extended warranties, lifetime service, and drop the whole thing in this short a period of time.
> 
> I know they've been out a little longer, but I've only had my Premieres for a year and a half. I have extended warranties on both of them and lifetime service. I am not one who tends to have a blown out sense of entitlement (not even close), but I feel entitled to having up to date, operable, software for at least 3-4 years. Even Microsoft still updates their OS for several years after they have brought out newer OS.
> 
> ...


I agree, and another thing I haven't heard people mention much of is that DirecTV and maybe other collaborators selling customized Tivo solutions to their subscribers are all currently based on the Series 4 platform. I think it's in the best interest for Tivo as a company to keep those ties strong and keep customers with a pleasurable experience while Series 5 solutions get developed and trickle out, but that's a slower process than Tivo fanatics adopting new hardware. Tivo has to know this and knows they need to keep support for the Series 4 platform pretty solid for at least a few years.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Series 1 tivos still work, as to S2s, and S3s. Premiere owners may not get new features, but they are sure to work for years to come.

We know of a "fall update" for Premieres, other than some hints at new HD screens, we don't know what else is included.


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## kherr (Aug 1, 2006)

I'm figuring that the DTA is a shoe-in and beyond that, I'm getting Rokus for Netflix/Amazon Prime, with the added benefit of additional sites. For a C note up front and no monthly fees, it fits my situation.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

For me I'd sell the Premiere and use that and the extra $100 toward a Roamio. The speed alone is worth it, and you get DTA now.


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

Well, even if we don't get updates for Premieres, we can always hope for downgrade software like they did to Series 2 Tivos last year to make it so they couldn't have the time shift feature. But then they gave the feature back. Who can figure that out?

Sometimes I think they make decisions at TiVo with a spin of the bottle, but I never seem to get a kiss by the cute gurlie.


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## plazman30 (Jan 23, 2005)

I could see TiVo using the Premiere as it's testbed. We Premiere owners get updates first. If they don't blow up, then the Roamio gets them a few weeks later.


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

Hi everyone,

At this point I expect the Fall update for TiVo Premiere to be released by the end of this month. We'll probably open the priority list in another week or so.

--Margret


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> At this point I expect the Fall update for TiVo Premiere to be released by the end of this month. We'll probably open the priority list in another week or so.
> 
> --Margret


Thanks for the Update!


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

Sounds like I will miss this as I will be back with DirecTV next week. best of luck to everyone


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I agree. We'll never see a performance increase on the Premiere. It's hardware bound and there is nothing they can do about it. If you want Mini like performance you need to upgrade to a Roamio.


can a Mini be used in a Premiere network, i.e. access Premiere shows, or is it purely a Roamio play?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

That is actually his point- the mini can work with the premiere and does so much faster than when working on the premiere it is tied to. But, it only works with the four-tuner model.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

jrtroo said:


> But, it only works with the four-tuner model.


 As a host, true. But you can stream shows from any series 4 unit including the 2 tuner ones as well.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> At this point I expect the Fall update for TiVo Premiere to be released by the end of this month. We'll probably open the priority list in another week or so.
> 
> --Margret


thanks


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

moyekj said:


> As a host, true. But you can stream shows from any series 4 unit including the 2 tuner ones as well.


what do you mean "as a true host", feature wise?


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> At this point I expect the Fall update for TiVo Premiere to be released by the end of this month. We'll probably open the priority list in another week or so.
> 
> --Margret


Margret,

Thanks again for your continued support! Your active public involvement and status updates go a long way towards keeping me (and I'm sure many others) in the Tivo camp.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

sharkster said:


> I know this is probably a massive understatement, but it doesn't seem right to sell the Premieres, extended warranties, lifetime service, and drop the whole thing in this short a period of time.
> 
> I know they've been out a little longer, but I've only had my Premieres for a year and a half. I have extended warranties on both of them and lifetime service. I am not one who tends to have a blown out sense of entitlement (not even close), but I feel entitled to having up to date, operable, software for at least 3-4 years. *Even Microsoft still updates their OS for several years after they have brought out newer OS*.
> 
> ...


Not unreasonable at all.

As someone in the same situation who has been a customer since 2001, I'm really disappointed that TiVo has no outlook for a fix to their Netflix problems and no outlook towards getting TiVo desktop to work so I can view my laptop photos on my TV via TiVo. These were 2 reasons I bought the Premier yet TiVo is deaf to entreaties to make their touted features function. The company I once promoted to all has lost my advocacy.

Yes, I have contacted support.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

tvmaster2 said:


> what do you mean "as a true host", feature wise?


 The Mini is required to be paired with a host TiVo. Allowed hosts for the Mini are units with 4 or more tuners. So you can't designate a 2 tuner Premiere as the Mini host. However if you have a >= 4 tuner TiVo on your network then you can set that as the Mini host. The Mini then can stream shows from that host unit and all other series 4 or series 5 units on your network (including 2 tuner units).


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

moyekj said:


> The Mini is required to be paired with a host TiVo. Allowed hosts for the Mini are units with 4 or more tuners. So you can't designate a 2 tuner Premiere as the Mini host. However if you have a >= 4 tuner TiVo on your network then you can set that as the Mini host. The Mini then can stream shows from that host unit and all other series 4 or series 5 units on your network (including 2 tuner units).


so, if you only have 2-tuner Premieres you're out of luck, i.e. you need at least ONE 4-tuner device to route things through?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

tvmaster2 said:


> so, if you only have 2-tuner Premieres you're out of luck, i.e. you need at least ONE 4-tuner device to route things through?


 Correct.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Thanks for the info re: Fall Update. 

I hope it fixes some of the things that the last updated screwed up.  I also really miss watching semi-live and being able to stay on semi-live even after it needs to change a channel to record. Now it just jumps you up to the new channel and you lose all that's buffered when you are watching behind. Wow, I don't know if that made sense or not. 

There are also some slownesses that the last update created.


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## bcronin (Dec 29, 2001)

Made sense to me. Happens all the time to us. Its soooo annoying.
--
bc


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

Looks like TiVo has a good chance to beat comcast. The latest word on the comcast forums is that the update isn't scheduled for October anymore. I did notice my external IP address just changed. Maybe they have everyone working on networking instead of cable.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

At least you didn't get your Premiere 4 a couple of weeks before Roamio came out like I did! I am so annoyed that I paid full price for a practically obsolete device, plus the fact that it has so many annoying aspects. 

The upside is that I am not a big fan of automatic upgrades and active development and changes to a big piece of tech that I am dependent on. Updates often cause more problems than solutions, I value stability. So I might be okay with this after all. (once I get used to all the regressions of P4).


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## Balzer (Nov 12, 2006)

hershey4 said:


> At least you didn't get your Premiere 4 a couple of weeks before Roamio came out like I did! I am so annoyed that I paid full price for a practically obsolete device, plus the fact that it has so many annoying aspects.


I have to ask.. if you purchased the Premiere a couple of weeks before the Roamio release, could you have returned it for a refund, since it was within the 30 day money back thing?


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

Balzer said:


> I have to ask.. if you purchased the Premiere a couple of weeks before the Roamio release, could you have returned it for a refund, since it was within the 30 day money back thing?


you would think so but unfortunately it sat in the box for 6 weeks before I could set it up and turn it on and discover it was such an inferior product. I was on the ball to make sure it arrived at my new house before Comcast did, but Comcast was unable to complete the installation (because they are flippin idiots - don't get me started...). A 6-week nightmare of miscommunication and incompetence followed before I finally got cable and internet service installed.

And, true, it would be clear without using it that the value of it dipped, but it wasn't until I saw that it was not a great product combined with the value dipping that really aggravates me. Plus, I was so busy dealing with Comcast and moving in, it was not high on my radar. And usually with TV's and other electronics, the price gradually decreases as a new model approaches. Not so here. Full price to outlet clearance price. wooosh...


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Not to be a pain in the ass... 

But we were discussing the fact that a new unit was coming out for, what, the last 3 months? And that it was best to wait...

You may not come here very often, but TiVo was definately leaking the information and Zatz and Sbiller were providing a heads up on both their sites and on this forum.

So...


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## rick stone (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks Margaret. Your involvement is always appreciated.

Do you know if the Fall Update will fix the Netflix issues we are all having with the Premiere? Locking up, freezing, rebooting, etc


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

bradleys said:


> But we were discussing the fact that a new unit was coming out for, what, the last 3 months? And that it was best to wait...


I had no idea. I'm not in the loop. I'm an infrequent visitor and when I do visit its generally very issue focused. I should visit more... it is amazing the amount of info that exists.

Now that I think about it, I _did _start a thread about my upcoming move before I moved to sort out how the Series-2 played into the scheme. (or NOT!) I don't think Roamio came up. I'll have to go see. But even if it did, it takes using the P4 a bit to realize how yuck it is. I definitely assumed going from a 7-8 year old Series 2 to the latest Premiere would have to be a no-brainer and major improvement. features - yes, performance - no.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

hershey4 said:


> I had no idea. I'm not in the loop. I'm an infrequent visitor and when I do visit its generally very issue focused. I should visit more... it is amazing the amount of info that exists.
> 
> Now that I think about it, I _did _start a thread about my upcoming move before I moved to sort out how the Series-2 played into the scheme. (or NOT!) I don't think Roamio came up. I'll have to go see. But even if it did, it takes using the P4 a bit to realize how yuck it is. I definitely assumed going from a 7-8 year old Series 2 to the latest Premiere would have to be a no-brainer and major improvement. features - yes, performance - no.


If you want to improve your Premiere's performance switch back to SDUI. With the Premiere's hardware you can either have a fast SDUI or a sluggish HDUI. Personally until I used a Roamio the Premiere's HDUI didn't bother me, but now that I have been spoiled the Premiere's HDUI really seems slow.


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## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

Tivo recently had a service outage and the discovery bar did not work. I noticed that the Premiere seemed to run faster without this extra part of the UI. I wish they gave us the option of removing the discovery bar from the My Shows Screen. I think that might make the experience a little more tolerable.


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## TiVoMargret (Feb 3, 2008)

Hi TiVo Premiere owners!

We've just opened the Priority page for the Fall Update.

http://www.tivo.com/priority

--Margret


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## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

Thank you! Best news all week!


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

I hope it fixes the following problems:

"Channel not available" message when tuning 
"Black Screen" for a second or two


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## dhoward (Mar 15, 2002)

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi TiVo Premiere owners!
> 
> We've just opened the Priority page for the Fall Update.
> 
> ...


Does this update include Dynamic Tuning between Mini and P4?


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

shamilian said:


> Tivo recently had a service outage and the discovery bar did not work. I noticed that the Premiere seemed to run faster without this extra part of the UI. I wish they gave us the option of removing the discovery bar from the My Shows Screen. I think that might make the experience a little more tolerable.


+1000, but then Tivo couldn't push useless junk to you all the time.


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

I have to admit that when pushed on the phone, you can sometimes get satisfaction with Tivo. 

However....I do remember CSR's being somewhat assured in that future updates would unleash the "full" power of the Tivo Premiere

that never happened...not even close. The power was never there to begin with. For that, I would love to find a competing product and adios the Tivo's from the building.

paying for a Roamio upgrade just doesn't feel right this time...feels like I've been suckered big time. The technical sloth that is the "powerful" Premiere interface really is insulting to a paying customer. Problem is, there really isn't that much competition.

Remember when there were 15 different companies who made VCR's, and they all had something to offer? And when speakers were so big you could be buried in them.....lol


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

OK, Why can no web designers get this right? On the TiVo box down in messages and settings, the TiVo Service Number is printed grouped into chunks with a dash between each chunk.

If you try and copy it exactly as written, it won't take it in the priority update page.

Sigh. Credit cards in web forms are always the same way too. Is this some secret requirement of the web designers guild to torture all the poor fools trying to use web forms? .

I also notice that the "number" includes letters, so if there is a round circle in the middle of a bunch of letters is that a zero or the letter O? (Of course if it is a hex number, then it must be a zero, and I don't see any letters past F .


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, I hope they fix the bug where we get no audio unless we back up a few seconds!


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## porges (Feb 28, 2001)

MPSAN said:


> Well, I hope they fix the bug where we get no audio unless we back up a few seconds!


I have that too (after catching up to live). Slightly cleaner workaround: hit pause twice, quickly.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Speaking of bugs, the past few months if I start watching a show off of another Premiere over the network that is STILL RECORDING, about 10-15 min away from the end it says it lost connection from the Tivo. Every time. So then you have to restart the episode and skip up to the point it disconnected. I hope this is fixed.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

porges said:


> I have that too (after catching up to live). Slightly cleaner workaround: hit pause twice, quickly.


same happens to me. Glad it doesn't seem to be my receiver.



tomhorsley said:


> OK, Why can no web designers get this right? On the TiVo box down in messages and settings, the TiVo Service Number is printed grouped into chunks with a dash between each chunk.
> 
> If you try and copy it exactly as written, it won't take it in the priority update page.
> 
> ...


Same. Just happened to me.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

b_scott said:


> Speaking of bugs, the past few months if I start watching a show off of another Premiere over the network that is STILL RECORDING, about 10-15 min away from the end it says it lost connection from the Tivo. Every time. So then you have to restart the episode and skip up to the point it disconnected. I hope this is fixed.


 This bug (error code V87) has been around ever since MRS was introduced and persists even with series 5 platform. TiVo obviously doesn't care enough about it to fix it.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

http://investordiscussionboard.com/boards/tivo/atlantic-broadband-first-deploy-roamio-premiere-netflix-app-be-upgraded-q1-14


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## aeternal (Jul 3, 2013)

hershey4 said:


> At least you didn't get your Premiere 4 a couple of weeks before Roamio came out like I did! I am so annoyed that I paid full price for a practically obsolete device, plus the fact that it has so many annoying aspects.
> 
> The upside is that I am not a big fan of automatic upgrades and active development and changes to a big piece of tech that I am dependent on. Updates often cause more problems than solutions, I value stability. So I might be okay with this after all. (once I get used to all the regressions of P4).


I was in the same boat you were hershey4. I had bought an XL4 back in May with no idea that a new series would be out any time soon. Then in June i started seeing ads for comcast's X1 device and then in August the Roamio debuts. It was pretty frustrating. I will say that I had an excellent experience with a tivo CSR. I had the monthly 1 year commitment on the XL4. I had recently purchased and activated a Roamio Plus and I thought i would be locked in and have to pay early term fees for the XL4. Well the rep ended up voiding the XL4 service and retro-activating my Roamio back to May. Now I have a free-standing XL4 that should fetch around $150 on ebay. Sure, I've lost some money but the Roamio is fantastic and definitely worth the upgrade. Couple that with the great customer service and this Tivo customer is a happy camper again


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

sbiller said:


> http://investordiscussionboard.com/boards/tivo/atlantic-broadband-first-deploy-roamio-premiere-netflix-app-be-upgraded-q1-14


I'm not sure the Bloomberg article actually states what you are saying in your headline. Are you just assuming that Atlantic would not deploy the current crippled Netflix app on their Premieres? I suppose that might be a good assumption but you never know.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

With any new device, there must be the last purchaser of the old technology who did not know/expect the update. Happens all the time. You are not alone.


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## MPSAN (Jun 20, 2009)

b_scott said:


> Speaking of bugs, the past few months if I start watching a show off of another Premiere over the network that is STILL RECORDING, about 10-15 min away from the end it says it lost connection from the Tivo. Every time. So then you have to restart the episode and skip up to the point it disconnected. I hope this is fixed.


HEY!! I just had that happen too and never had it before!!


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Loach said:


> I'm not sure the Bloomberg article actually states what you are saying in your headline. Are you just assuming that Atlantic would not deploy the current crippled Netflix app on their Premieres? I suppose that might be a good assumption but you never know.


I would be shocked if Suddenlink launches Netflix with the crippled Premiere app on their 90,000 TiVo devices currently in the field. I think there is a high probability that this comment telegraphs a Netflix app update that will filter back to retail Premiere boxes later this year.


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## Loach (Jan 11, 2013)

sbiller said:


> I would be shocked if Suddenlink launches Netflix with the crippled Premiere app on their 90,000 TiVo devices currently in the field. I think there is a high probability that this comment telegraphs a Netflix app update that will filter back to retail Premiere boxes later this year.


For my own sake, I really hope you're right.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

sbiller said:


> I would be shocked if Suddenlink launches Netflix with the crippled Premiere app on their 90,000 TiVo devices currently in the field. I think there is a high probability that this comment telegraphs a Netflix app update that will filter back to retail Premiere boxes later this year.


I don't expect the refreshed Roamio version of Netflix to fix the performance issues on the Premiere. First the Roamio Netflix instance isn't HTML5 (not that a platform change would help). Second, the problem with Netflix is the processor, not the app.

The Roamio update to Netflix was a simple UI refresh that included DIAL support, not some magical performance fix.

The Premiere still has an underpowered processor and always will. I doubt it will ported and am pretty sure it wouldn't provide you a performance boost if it were.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I don't expect the refreshed Roamio version of Netflix to fix the performance issues on the Premiere.


Updated Netflix and YouTube apps feature improved performance on Premiere...

By the by, looks like the Priority singup page isn't working - I get a web error when I try to put mine in.



> Error 404--Not Found
> 
> From RFC 2068 Hypertext Transfer Protocol -- HTTP/1.1:
> 
> ...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Updated Netflix and YouTube apps feature improved performance on Premiere...


Is that a quote? If so from where?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Dave, I would never question you...

But I am suspect on improved performance - I hope they figured it out. It would be a huge benefit to the platform.


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## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Dave, I would never question you...
> 
> But I am suspect on improved performance - I hope they figured it out. It would be a huge benefit to the platform.


Too bad we didn't benchmark the old Netflix app running on the Mini versus the released version when TiVo accidentally enabled it. IIRC, the new app launches a lot faster. Other than that, I didn't use it enough to make a call.

Netflix is very much into responsive design so I would place a bet that Dave's correct.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Is that a quote? If so from where?


Dave Zatz, 9/13



bradleys said:


> Dave, I would never question you... But I am suspect on improved performance - I hope they figured it out. It would be a huge benefit to the platform.


Your concerns are valid and, as a Premiere XL4 owner, I feel your pain. 'Improved' is better, but not ideal... and obviously still hamstrung by an underpowered hardware platform for their software platform of choice, that you brought up. But hopefully the new Netflix is usable for most, whereas I consider the current one largely unusable.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

davezatz said:


> Dave Zatz, 9/13


Inside source?


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## gconnery (Mar 31, 2006)

Priority update page is working now.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

the new update fixed the fast forward to live audio drop problem. woohoo!


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## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

What new update?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

TiVoMargret said:


> Hi TiVo Premiere owners!
> 
> We've just opened the Priority page for the Fall Update.
> 
> ...


the priority one, i guess. I noticed recently my "quick clear" trickplay had been reset so I assumed there was an update. Now the audio drop seems to be fixed.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

b_scott said:


> the priority one, i guess. I noticed recently my "quick clear" trickplay had been reset so I assumed there was an update. Now the audio drop seems to be fixed.


What's your software version?


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

not sure, I'm at work.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Not sure if it means anything, but both my Premieres show a connection was successful this morning and another is scheduled for this afternoon. Both are about five hours apart.

Forcing a connection on both now.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

You won't receive any Software update I believe until you see "Pending Restart"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

timstack8969 said:


> You won't receive any Software update I believe until you see "Pending Restart"


Well, you'll only see "Pending Restart" if you check between the time it downloads and the time it restarts...

But I think for major updates there will be a message after the restart.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Yea, I got nothing. Just thought it was odd that the next connections were scheduled so soon after successful ones.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

On a whim, I just forced a connection on my Premiere, and it's been sitting on "Downloading..." for about 10 minutes now. Hoping it's the update...


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

I'll try to check version when I get home.


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## NotVeryWitty (Oct 3, 2003)

NotVeryWitty said:


> On a whim, I just forced a connection on my Premiere, and it's been sitting on "Downloading..." for about 10 minutes now. Hoping it's the update...


Never mind.  Just changed from "Loading (x%)..." to "Succeeded" (no "Pending restart"). I guess there were just a lot of program updates.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

20.3.1-01-2-748

is that the previous version?


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## puffdaddy (Mar 1, 2006)

Yes, that's the current version (20.3.1-01-2). The Fall Update should be 20.3.7.1a-01-2


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

cool. well then that seems to also have fixed my problem (I hope) 

edit.......and it stopped working again.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

got the fall '13 update. Hope it fixes some bugs.


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