# Tivo's hail mary



## snapjack543 (May 27, 2020)

Am I the only one who sees this as Tivo's last ditch hail mary to save themselves from their seemingly inevitable demise as their prime demographic ages out. I received mine a few days ago and tried to give it the benefit of the doubt but the number of bugs just keep piling up. It screams desperation.

Let's face it, Tivo's only value-add going forward is a GUI that attempts to aggregate content across streaming services. While that's convenient for the end-user, dominant live streaming services (i.e. Youtube TV) have absolutely no incentive to want to integrate with Tivo--YouTube TV doesn't want to be put side-by-side next to Hulu--they want you in THEIR app, consuming THEIR content, and THEIR ads, and staying completely within their ecosystem. Tivo is trying to be the grubhub of live streaming services, the ticket master of concerts--that annoying middleman that neither content providers nor end users want to deal with--and that's the crux of their problem. Tivo's only hope at this point is to grow their consumer base with this rush-to-market device and use that as leverage against the big weights.

I predict that this product will fail inevitably--youtube reviewers have noted several bugs. Tivo has not acknowledged them nor does it seem like they plan to. It's a nice android TV device for $50 no question about it. The remote is fantastic, but odds are, it's a dead end product.


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## pshivers (Nov 4, 2013)

YTTV is not part of the Tivo integration package at this time, Sling TV is...

Yes, you apparently are the only one...

lol

Paul Shivers


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## ebockelman (Jul 12, 2001)

I see it as a pivot, albeit a bit of a late one for them. Their core market was DVRs, which will never again be a growth market. They need to pivot to something else to remain viable.

Moving to streaming is a move to more opportunity. If they do it right, it could be huge. I won't predict their success based on a v1 product.


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## rczrider (May 16, 2020)

I keep having to remind myself that this was $50. The hardware is undoubtedly solid; it's the software that needs work. And I'm apparently in the minority of disliking the remote (which has too many useless buttons, IMO).

I'm getting close to the end of the return period for the TS4K; I might hold onto it for a couple of more days and hope the Xiaomi Mi TV Stick goes on sale, so I can see what that costs. If it's $80, I'd rather save $30 and hope that TiVo fixes the firmware. If it's $60 like the Mi Box was, I'll jump on it.

My uses for the TS4K are limited; if it would just stop flickering during playback on Kodi and Plex - and I could turn off the mandatory HDR10 / Dolby Vision / whatever is causing it to look weird - I'd be happy and consider it a bargain at $50.


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## powrcow (Sep 27, 2010)

snapjack543 said:


> ATivo is trying to be the grubhub of live streaming services, the ticket master of concerts--that annoying middleman that neither content providers nor end users want to deal with--and that's the crux of their problem.


TiVo isn't taking a cut, nor is it forcing you to use their service. So I wouldn't say they're aspiring to be TicketMaster.

TiVo's initial stab at this, the OnePass on the TiVo DVRs, worked well for a few years. TiVo had problems continually indexing streaming services' programs and the streaming services didn't update their apps for TiVo frequently enough (mostly TiVo's fault for initialy having underpowered and outdated platforms). But when it worked, it worked great. I was hoping the TiVo Stream 4k would be like this, but it hasn't.


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## ptcfast2 (May 10, 2020)

rczrider said:


> if it would just stop flickering during playback on Kodi and Plex - and I could turn off the mandatory HDR10 / Dolby Vision / whatever is causing it to look weird - I'd be happy and consider it a bargain at $50.


For Plex, try setting Audio Passthrough on the Plex app to Optical (will still work and still goes over HDMI regardless of having an actual "optical" connection) and only AC3 (Dolby Digital). It stopped my flickering oddly enough, but I caught on due to sound glitches as well. HDMI Audio passthrough didn't fix it for me, but hey I'll take whatever works at this point.


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## rczrider (May 16, 2020)

ptcfast2 said:


> For Plex, try setting Audio Passthrough on the Plex app to Optical (will still work and still goes over HDMI regardless of having an actual "optical" connection) and only AC3 (Dolby Digital). It stopped my flickering oddly enough, but I caught on due to sound glitches as well. HDMI Audio passthrough didn't fix it for me, but hey I'll take whatever works at this point.


Interesting...I'll give it a shot, thanks for the advice! I honestly had (and still have) high hopes for this device. If I can get it working for my particular use, I'll keep it. I'm a little concerned that any workaround that's found will be undone with a firmware update, and holes will be patched. I'd be all for unlocking the bootloader and throwing a vanilla Android TV on there, as long as I can keep whatever it is that allows Netflix DRM in place (if that's what it is) so I can keep 4K content.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I hate to say this but I swear I saw a couple flickers on CBS AllAccess last night. Netflix as well. I will say that some of the video I have seen from various providers has been outstanding. I am comparing to the apps on my Samsung tv which til now had been the best video I had available (except Blu Ray).


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

snapjack543 said:


> I predict that this product will fail inevitably--youtube reviewers have noted several bugs. Tivo has not acknowledged them nor does it seem like they plan to.


How exactly would you like TiVo to respond to YouTube bug complaints?

A press release that says,"Dang, you got us. We'll jump on that one soon, thanks."?

They've made public comments about two high profile complaints - CEC and remote control of sound systems.

And wow "nor does it seem like they plan to". The device has been out LESS THAN A MONTH.

Did you honestly expect a massive software update this soon addressing all of the top consumer feedback?

Have you ever used consumer electronics before? This isn't open source Mozilla with nightly builds.


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## rczrider (May 16, 2020)

cwoody222 said:


> How exactly would you like TiVo to respond to YouTube big complaints?
> 
> A press release that says,"Dang, you got us. We'll jump on that one soon, thanks."?
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm with you on this. I think folks (myself included) are frustrated for two big reasons: it doesn't integrate with their other TiVo products (which, while I don't have any other TiVo devices, I totally get), and it's incredibly buggy for a production device. It's obvious to me that they released the TS4K before it was ready. I can only assume that a combination of quarantine (more people streaming) and the imminent release of the Xiaomi Mi Stick and (at the time) the assumption that the Chromecast Ultra 2 might be out in May. Who knows.

So I think it's valid to be disappointed in the device, but I don't think it's valid to expect an immediate update to address the things that suck. It takes time. Of course, I may return mine before they update it because I don't want to miss out on the return window and get stuck with a buggy device that TiVo abandons or refuses to fix (in the way I want them to fix it).


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

ebockelman said:


> I see it as a pivot, albeit a bit of a late one for them. Their core market was DVRs, which will never again be a growth market. They need to pivot to something else to remain viable.
> 
> Moving to streaming is a move to more opportunity. If they do it right, it could be huge. I won't predict their success based on a v1 product.


selling a 49 dollar dongle is going to be Huge? **** theres not even any incentive to improve it. Probably why its so buggy. I doubt they will release more than one update a year.


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

powrcow said:


> TiVo isn't taking a cut, nor is it forcing you to use their service. So I wouldn't say they're aspiring to be TicketMaster.
> 
> TiVo's initial stab at this, the OnePass on the TiVo DVRs, worked well for a few years. TiVo had problems continually indexing streaming services' programs and the streaming services didn't update their apps for TiVo frequently enough (mostly TiVo's fault for initialy having underpowered and outdated platforms). But when it worked, it worked great. I was hoping the TiVo Stream 4k would be like this, but it hasn't.


Problem is there is nothing "tivo" about this "tivo" device other than a logo. Even worse they chose ONE serivce to latch onto and try to integrate with and even that is a failure.


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## rczrider (May 16, 2020)

vurbano said:


> selling a 49 dollar dongle is going to be Huge? **** theres not even any incentive to improve it. Probably why its so buggy. I doubt they will release more than one update a year.


"Huge" might be a bit of a stretch (I'm not the one who said it), but if the TS4K weren't buggy, it would absolutely be the best option on the market at $50. The closest apples-to-apples comparison is the Mi Box S at $60 and that has less powerful hardware in a larger form factor due to it being an older generation of tech.

Yes, there are other options like the Fire Stick 4K and Roku, but the TS4K hardware is arguably superior and includes Chromecast 4K.

But: if, if, if. I'm convinced the TS4K hardware is perfectly fine, and that Android TV works perfectly well with it. It's almost like TiVo tried to make it simpler (removing options so as not to "confuse" users?) but broke it, instead.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Hail Mary?

Tivo is certainly no Arron Rodgers, image how clean his toilet bowls rims are!

Tivos rims has piss and s7#t all around it.


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## snapjack543 (May 27, 2020)

cwoody222 said:


> How exactly would you like TiVo to respond to YouTube bug complaints?
> 
> A press release that says,"Dang, you got us. We'll jump on that one soon, thanks."?
> 
> ...


Let me put it this way: the fact that they decided it was important to rush this to market given number and types of bugs in this device speaks for itself. They went live with only 1 live streaming service. They are trying to justify their existence among the plethora of Rokus, apple TV's, and Amazon fire sticks. Timing is really the only edge they have with this TiVo branded androidv tv device that can't even leverage their existing user base. And so here we are in this forum discussing how to fix this and that.

That being said, I am rooting for them. I hope they get some traction, but boy do the odds seem to be stacked against them...


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## ptcfast2 (May 10, 2020)

snapjack543 said:


> Let me put it this way: the fact that they decided it was important to rush this to market given number and types of bugs in this device speaks for itself. They went live with only 1 live streaming service. They are trying to justify their existence among the plethora of Rokus, apple TV's, and Amazon fire sticks. Timing is really the only edge they have with this TiVo branded androidv tv device that can't even leverage their existing user base. And so here we are in this forum discussing how to fix this and that.
> 
> That being said, I am rooting for them. I hope they get some traction, but boy do the odds seem to be stacked against them...


Exclusive: This is Google's Android TV dongle, remote, and new UI

It was rushed out before Google could basically obliterate their chances. And well, Google is going to do just that.


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## rczrider (May 16, 2020)

ptcfast2 said:


> Exclusive: This is Google's Android TV dongle, remote, and new UI
> 
> It was rushed out before Google could basically obliterate their chances. And well, Google is going to do just that.


Pretty much. I'm guessing it has the same SoC that's showing up all of these devices; everyone's working off the same platform and rushing to put out something that makes them stand out. TiVo figured the Stream app is the best they could offer, so they went with that but somehow (or for some reason) borked the underlying firmware.

I'd take a functional TS4K at $50 over a Chromecast Nest (or whatever they're calling it) at $80, though, because I doubt Google will offer anything I'm personally interested in to be worth a 60% bump in price. But...the TS4K _isn't_ functional. I guess that's what a 60% bump gets you :wink:


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Updates, support, and bug-fixes would be worth a $30 bump but Google's track record in that department isn't exactly glowing either. Not supporting certain apps or the apps being crippled in some manner at launch has become the norm for streaming platforms, but the true test is whether over time those apps are added and enhanced or taken away.

The $200 Shield Pro is a very expensive device, but it's come the closest to delivering on the promise of Android TV. It sure would be nice if something would step up on the low end. FireTV is certainly a solid product, but without direct access to the Play Store it's not really an Android TV device.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

foghorn2 said:


> Hail Mary?
> 
> Tivo is certainly no Arron Rodgers, image how clean his toilet bowls rims are!
> 
> Tivos rims has piss and s7#t all around it.


They're more like one of the original old and outdated "Hail Mary" QBs, Doug Flutie!


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## rczrider (May 16, 2020)

jonw747 said:


> Updates, support, and bug-fixes would be worth a $30 bump but Google's track record in that department isn't exactly glowing either. Not supporting certain apps or the apps being crippled in some manner at launch has become the norm for streaming platforms, but the true test is whether over time those apps are added and enhanced or taken away.


It's possible I'm just being naive, but I think the upcoming Chromecast Nest (or whatever it's called, aka "Sabrina") will mark a new trend for Google in this regard. It's entirely reasonable to think there will be no new version of the 1080p Chromecast dongles, and the new Chromecast is the update to the Ultra / 4K version. I don't see Google abandoning Chromecast and the Nest branding of the new device indicates to me that they're going strong with the incorporation of streaming to their home products.

I get why folks grumble about Google and its support - and I agree that they're valid complaints - but I don't think that'll be the case here.


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## ElT60 (May 27, 2020)

rczrider said:


> It's possible I'm just being naive, but I think the upcoming Chromecast Nest (or whatever it's called, aka "Sabrina") will mark a new trend for Google in this regard. It's entirely reasonable to think there will be no new version of the 1080p Chromecast dongles,


 The 4k Chromecast get tweaked and drop down to the 1080p price point, could be a move they make. Dropping it all together seems a bit extreme. It wouldn't be the primary focus of the line up but some folks don't mind using another device as a remote (e.g., a conference room dongle to present slide show. )

Also a bit not clear they are going to present this as a "Chromecast replace" verus perhaps as a "YouTube TV" (YTTV) device ( fast track to TV service. ). Something like "Nest for Google TV" and perhaps getting some bundled special price on live TV service through Google. That somewhat keeps them out of full direct competition with their other Android TV / Google TV licenses. ( some overlap but not complete. ). Also would be good excuse as to how took over default home screen for YTTV live tab. ( it is like the other video channel operator license permission. So not breaking their own 'rules'. )

How much the new home screen can be customized ( vendor A , B , or C for live tab ) then perhaps this is more mainstream targeted. For that context then it is more of a device where trying to inspirational to move the "Google TV" license holders forward on a consistent GUI + UX path. ( like pixel is suppose to help pull folks forward. )



> I get why folks grumble about Google and its support - and I agree that they're valid complaints - but I don't think that'll be the case here.


 Concur. Google tends not to walk way from things that are productive making money (not solely through customized directed ads). YTTV appears to have most of the upsides of Google Fiber without all of the major headaches for them. It is growing at a steady pace and people most are continuing to pay every month. ( we'll see if these new ViacommCBS channels crank the price up to point some folks start balking. Or they flip some regional sports for those and toe the line on pricing. )

If this new "Sabrina" device comes "out of the box" ready to drive that YTTV grow and subscription revenue they are zero good reason to abandon it later as long as it continues to do that job. None. If nobody buys it then perhaps they'd walk away over time ( but so would most other companies from a product that grossly undershoots expectations. )

If aimed at being the cheapest (lowest price, affordable) , 2 year disposable box then no. But it is unlikely they'd try to attach "Nest" brand to that at all.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Not to beat a *dead *horse ... 

Google Tv: :innocent:
Nexus Player: :innocent:
ChromeCast Audio: :innocent:


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