# Killing Eve - Season Three & Four (final season) *spoilers*



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Let the games begin...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

They killed Kenny! You bastards!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I have to re-watch, I fell asleep!!


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

After spending time on the fish and chips with battered sausage his mum will not be pleased. Maybe she will make an off the books offer to Eve she can't refuse.

(nor will silent woman in investigative journalism office be pleased, she could help Eve)


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm honestly angry about Kenny. He was one of the very few people you wanted to root for. Ugh. What a ****ty start for me.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm on the fence on this show since last season. And this was not a good start. 

So Eve is miraculous saved after being shot in the middle of nowhere?! And agree, I liked Kenny and sorry to see him go.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> So Eve is miraculous saved after being shot in the middle of nowhere?!


Nothing miraculous about it...she was found by tourists.

Who just happened to wander into a closed and padlocked site.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Who just happened to wander into a closed and padlocked site.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Nothing miraculous about it...she was found by tourists.
> 
> Who just happened to wander into a closed and padlocked site.


Killing Eve is a well written spy story with multiple levels of deception, just because they said they were tourists does not rule out they were spooks who wanted to keep Eve alive.

I do not know how Kenny's death is going to be recorded but whatever the verdict we shouldn't automatically believe or disbelieve it.

The continued excellence of the writing was shown in the way Carolyn referred to the Foreign Office as "the other side".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pgogborn said:


> Killing Eve is a well written spy story with multiple levels of deception, just because they said they were tourists does not rule out they were spooks who wanted to keep Eve alive.


It also doesn't rule out that this was the new writing staff trying to dig themselves out of the hole the old writing staff had left behind...


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Didn't Fleabag writer left after season 1?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> Didn't Fleabag writer left after season 1?


Each season has had a new show-runner and a new head writer.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It also doesn't rule out that this was the new writing staff trying to dig themselves out of the hole the old writing staff had left behind...


I think the new writing staff are doing an excellent job of resolving the challenges the old writing staff left them. The death of Kenny is regrettable but is a good way of resetting the game. If they wanted to I am sure they could have come up with a better way of digging themselves out of a hole, but they went with standard spycraft.

How To Talk Like A Spy
"Cover within a cover"

If the backstop may not hold up, a spy may revert to this "Inception"-like phrase. In going to his or her cover within a cover, a spy would admit to doing something less serious than espionage, which would hopefully explain away the suspicious activities the spy was observed to be doing.

"Oh no sir, I'm just a tourist taking pictures 
How To Talk Like A Spy


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Each season has had a new show-runner and a new head writer.


Even though I hated the S1 finale, it was a great season. S2 not so much. Phoebe Waller-Bridge...that's her name.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

TiVo lists today “Managemenrt Sucks” as S3E3 and next week as S3E2.
Wikipedia lists e2 as “Managemenrt Sucks”, so looks like the Guide (mine anyway) just has the numbering wrong.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I don't think I will watch this show real time anymore. AMC was driving me nuts with the commercial breaks. They'd return for 15 seconds and go to commercials again. I think they did that 2 or 3x. On demand removes them. 

Anyhow, I wasn't thrilled with this episode. I'm not liking this Dasha character that they just brought in out of nowhere and Kenny being dead just doesn't sit right for me still. Even Villanelle with her new boy wasn't fun. Like we all didn't see him screwing up and her killing him coming the minute he got off the bus. Hope the season improves.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I don't think I will watch this show real time anymore. AMC was driving me nuts with the commercial breaks. They'd return for 15 seconds and go to commercials again. I think they did that 2 or 3x. On demand removes them.
> 
> Anyhow, I wasn't thrilled with this episode. I'm not liking this Dasha character that they just brought in out of nowhere and Kenny being dead just doesn't sit right for me still. Even Villanelle with her new boy wasn't fun. Like we all didn't see him screwing up and her killing him coming the minute he got off the bus. Hope the season improves.


I don't watch anything besides shows that don't have commercials live anymore.

About this episode, it actually felt more like a classic Killing Eve episode to me. It's obvious to me that this season is going to be about finding who killed Kenny (you bastard!). Villanelle killing her new padawan is completely in character for her. She's got her way and when he deviated, he's of no use, she wastes him. I like that Konstantin still can driver her nuts. Their relationship is one of the show's better ones. You had to figure that Katherine (I think that's her name...the MI6 lady), would reach out to Eve once she got shut out of investigating the murder.

Oh, I'm still loving the choice of music. I've come to realize that it gives the show an England in the mod 1960s feel. Villanelle dresses like a 1960s posh girl too.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Steveknj said:


> I don't watch anything besides shows that don't have commercials live anymore.
> 
> About this episode, it actually felt more like a classic Killing Eve episode to me. It's obvious to me that this season is going to be about finding who killed Kenny (you bastard!). Villanelle killing her new padawan is completely in character for her. She's got her way and when he deviated, he's of no use, she wastes him. I like that Konstantin still can driver her nuts. Their relationship is one of the show's better ones. You had to figure that Katherine (I think that's her name...the MI6 lady), would reach out to Eve once she got shut out of investigating the murder.
> 
> Oh, I'm still loving the choice of music. I've come to realize that it gives the show an England in the mod 1960s feel. Villanelle dresses like a 1960s posh girl too.


I can't remember the last time I watched something and had to sit through commercials. Not going to do that again. I'll rewatch this on demand later tonight. Maybe the weird commercial interruption dampened my enjoyment for this.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I can't remember the last time I watched something and had to sit through commercials. Not going to do that again. I'll rewatch this on demand later tonight. Maybe the weird commercial interruption dampened my enjoyment for this.


Yeah, having to sit through commercials for anything but a live sporting event is something I just won't do by choice anymore. It's one of the ironies I'm finding is that people are paying for the privilege of watching live TV with commercials again via streaming services. We spent years trying to get to the point where we don't have to, and we are going back to watching them again


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

What you mean "we," paleface?


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> Like we all didn't see him screwing up and her killing him coming the minute he got off the bus.


Maybe. But I didn't foresee the clown would screw up dressed as a clown.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

They do like putting Jodi Comer in delightfully odd outfits!


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Agree about the ads. Way too many. And I DVR'd it! Then they have these little snippets between the commercials...making me rewind for nuthin'! Oh yeah about the episode...meh...


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'm still watching even though I'm not sure why since I dislike both main characters. Villanelle stopped being fun for me when she killed Nico's work friend and I have a hard time getting past how the world's sloppiest assassin somehow manages to never get caught. I actually cursed my tv out when Eve kissed Villanelle during their bus fight. I guess I'm hate watching now.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

cheesesteak said:


> I actually cursed my tv out when Eve kissed Villanelle during their bus fight. I guess I'm hate watching now.


yeah, but you knew it was coming 
(agree with your points. I wasn't even going to watch this season, as I was losing interest at the end of S2, but I'm still watching)


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Yea I have to say I am not as addicted to it this season yet.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pgogborn said:


> I think the new writing staff are doing an excellent job of resolving the challenges the old writing staff left them. The death of Kenny is regrettable but is a good way of resetting the game. If they wanted to I am sure they could have come up with a better way of digging themselves out of a hole, but they went with standard spycraft.


They had to come up with a way to get Eve back involved when she very clearly was trying to distance herself from the whole spy game, and Kenny's death is a great way to do that. There really isn't anyone else she cared about enough, except maybe Nico, and after last season there are a whole host of other issues with that relationship.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> I'm still watching even though I'm not sure why since I dislike both main characters. Villanelle stopped being fun for me when she killed Nico's work friend and I have a hard time getting past how the world's sloppiest assassin somehow manages to never get caught. I actually cursed my tv out when Eve kissed Villanelle during their bus fight. I guess I'm hate watching now.


Yeah the kissing scene annoyed me to no end. Also killing the baby's mom and nanny. And then trashing the baby...ugh...I'm this close to deleting the SP.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> Yeah the kissing scene annoyed me to no end. Also killing the baby's mom and nanny. And then trashing the baby...ugh...I'm this close to deleting the SP.


Out of all the bad things in the episode, the baby trashing made me laugh. There was no way the show was actually going to intentionally harm an infant so the comedy of the act registered more with me than the horribleness of the act


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Ever since they introduced her this season I just don't trust that Geraldine. I think they may have added her this season as a Trojan horse to misdirect us. She just has too much of a goody-two-shoes image to not be involved in something nefarious.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

This is not currently my top guess but it is a long way above my bottom guess. 

If Kenny discovered she was involved in something really really bad that could have been enough to make him jump.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

series5orpremier said:


> Ever since they introduced her this season I just don't trust that Geraldine. I think they may have added her this season as a Trojan horse to misdirect us. She just has too much of a goody-two-shoes image to not be involved in something nefarious.


She's a Greyjoy, so there's that...


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> She's a Greyjoy, so there's that...


I'm impressed with the actor, though, who in this role is pretty much the exact opposite of a Greyjoy, and very convincing. It actually took a while for me to place her despite her rather distinctive face, because of how radically different her personality is.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

I still havn't watched GOT, so I wasn't influenced by that.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> She's a Greyjoy, so there's that...


Who did she play on GoT?


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I haven't gotten the vibe that she's up to something, but now wondering why a sister of Kenny's was created. Was she mentioned before this season?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Who did she play on GoT?


Yara Greyjoy.

Theon's nasty sister.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Steveknj said:


> Who did she play on GoT?


Yara, Theon's (Reek) sister.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

She was also good in Gentleman Jack on HBO


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm impressed with the actor, though, who in this role is pretty much the exact opposite of a Greyjoy, and very convincing. It actually took a while for me to place her despite her rather distinctive face, because of how radically different her personality is.


I knew her immediately but it's still jarring to see her smile.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> I knew her immediately but it's still jarring to see her smile.


Well, Yara smiled.

Frequently.

Right before she maimed or killed somebody.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, Yara smiled.
> 
> Frequently.
> 
> Right before she maimed or killed somebody.


And when she met Dany


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, Yara smiled.
> 
> Frequently.
> 
> Right before she maimed or killed somebody.


Way different kind of smile, bub!


----------



## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

cherry ghost said:


> She was also good in Gentleman Jack on HBO


When I finally recognized her in that (several episodes in) it was quite jarring.

i recognized her much more quickly in _Killing Eve_.


----------



## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

pgogborn said:


> This is not currently my top guess but it is a long way above my bottom guess.
> 
> If Kenny discovered she was involved in something really really bad that could have been enough to make him jump.


Thats assuming Kenny jumped which I think we're going to find out is not the case.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

KungFuCow said:


> That's assuming Kenny jumped which I think we're going to find out is not the case.


I suspect it's a lot less uncertain that you're making it out to be... 

(Which is to say, I'm dead certain we're going to find out it's not the case.)


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

KungFuCow said:


> Thats assuming Kenny jumped which I think we're going to find out is not the case.


I am not assuming he was pushed. I not assuming he jumped.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I just binged the aired episodes of S3. After reading some earlier comments I was expecting something bad, but I liked it. Soundtrack is still fantastic.

When Dasha's superior first showed up I thought it was Geri (Yara). That would have been something. She was meeting Konstantin but it could have been for a variety of reasons. Sure did try to cover up.

Poor Niko. I don't think Eve will buy it, though.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I can't say I know for sure, but is rural Poland still that backwards?

Fun episode.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> I can't say I know for sure, but is rural Poland still that backwards?
> 
> Fun episode.


It is, in America.

Edit: maybe I should have said "Hollywood".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> It is, in America.
> 
> Edit: maybe I should have said "Hollywood".


Or in England...(I wonder where those scenes were filmed?)


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or in England...(I wonder where those scenes were filmed?)


That's not how I meant it.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or in England...(I wonder where those scenes were filmed?)


That's my point, not sure how accurate that is. But it was interesting seeing.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> That's not how I meant it.


I know what you meant; I was just saying this is the English film industry, not the American film industry. Otherwise, your point stands.

Wondering where the scenes were filmed was just an afterthought.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Ah, I keep forgetting this isn't a Hollywood production.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

From Wikipedia:

Filming for the third series began in August 2019 in London and concluded in January 2020. Filming locations included Viscri, Romania, and Barcelona, Spain.

50/50 but my money is on Romania.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

wprager said:


> From Wikipedia:
> 
> Filming for the third series began in August 2019 in London and concluded in January 2020. Filming locations included Viscri, Romania, and Barcelona, Spain.
> 
> 50/50 but my money is on Romania.


To be precise the Romania village of Viscri.

My bet is Villanelle bouncing the cable car was for real.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Poor Niko.

I must have missed it but when did Eve become homeless?

I like the banter between Konstantin and his daughter.

Jodie Comer is wonderful with Villanelle's facial expressions.

As for this show's soundtracks, let's just say that I won't be looking up who did what song.

I'm close to pressing the fast forward button during Carolyn's scenes with her daughter. Her soulless mannerisms are bad enough on her own but add in Geraldine's emo-ness and it's a fight to not reach for the remote.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

She isn't exactly homeless but she has abandoned her apartment because Villanelle knows where it is, exactly what Eve fears regarding Villanelle is another matter.

So far this season we have two examples of intelligence operatives inserting themselves into the lives of a target using fabrication/manipulation, it is not entirely impossible that Eve manipulated the situation to get closer to a Bitter Pill suspect.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Poor Niko.


Poor Kenny, Poor Gemma, poor Frank who had his knob cut off and was killed in that order, poor Bill, the list goes on.

When in the previous episode the MI6 officer told Eve "You really should have some kind of protection. You know that right? She scoffed "Do you have any idea what happens to people who are protected by MI6... It's not good".

Eve avoided the real intersection, she should have warned the MI6 officer, "Do you have any idea what happens to people who talk to me... It's not good".


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

oh my god! I just finished this week's episode...... NIKO
I have to say I didn't see it coming, I thought she was trying to get Eve and Niko back together so that Villanelle would forget about Eve and go back to work. (considering I don't know how much this woman actually knows about Villanelle's mindset about Eve given we didn't see her before this season)


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

This week we got some of Villanelle's family backstory. I love the Elton John fanaticism, and the Crocodile Rock sing along. But you KNEW almost from the beginning what her plan was, and when she lit the house on fire, it was not a surprise.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Was only her mom in the house? I know her brother was in the barn and she got the kid out, but was anyone else in the house?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Was only her mom in the house? I know her brother was in the barn and she got the kid out, but was anyone else in the house?


Everybody else was in the house. She made sure the only two she liked were safe.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Was only her mom in the house? I know her brother was in the barn and she got the kid out, but was anyone else in the house?


I thought the rest of the relatives were there.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I am really surprised Nadezhda didn't have an "accident" with the mounted deer head falling off the wall and impaling her before the pirozhki contest.

Also, beside threatening to call the police, I didn't think Villanelle had a beef with her mother's husband. 

Anyhow, not the best episode.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I’m enjoying S3 more than S2. 

Poor Niko. I hope Eve doesn’t blame Villanelle. 

I expected Villanelle to wipe out her family but glad she spared a couple of them.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Is her father still alive? I don’t recall if she found out.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Her father left because he was afraid he was like Oksana (sociopath?) and would hurt them (sociopath with a conscience?) Her mother blamed Oksana for her husband leaving.

I assumed the older man was her new husband.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

So... guess at some point in the show she may meet her father.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I thought it was weird Villanelle insisted on everyone speaking English since she can speak Russian. I know it made things easier for the viewers because it eliminated the need for subtitles, but from a story standpoint it was strange.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Shakhari said:


> I thought it was weird Villanelle insisted on everyone speaking English since she can speak Russian. I know it made things easier for the viewers because it eliminated the need for subtitles, but from a story standpoint it was strange.


She's been like that, though. She doesn't like speaking Russian.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She's been like that, though. She doesn't like speaking Russian.


If I recall correctly, in season 1, she refused to speak Russian back to someone (maybe Konstantin, maybe more) but I'm pretty sure this was already informed.


----------



## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

In my opinion this season is close to awful. Each episode is worse than the previous one. It's as though the writers are either being self indulgent with their story lines - winking at one another and trying to see how much nonsense they can get away with, or they are just running out of good ideas. Certainly not the same show it was in the previous two seasons.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

ADG said:


> In my opinion this season is close to awful. Each episode is worse than the previous one. It's as though the writers are either being self indulgent with their story lines - winking at one another and trying to see how much nonsense they can get away with, or they are just running out of good ideas. Certainly not the same show it was in the previous two seasons.


While I still like this series more than most, I agree, it's been weaker. For some reason they have a plot line for the season (Kenny's death) but they seem to go away from it for long stretches. It's hardly been mentioned the last two episodes and not at all. They just seem to want to focus on some sort of secondary stories about the main characters. And they've met up, like once all season. But it's still a fun ride, because those two main characters are so fun. But come on, there's 3 episodes left, lets get on with it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, for a show built on the chemistry between its two leads, you think they would have their two leads be together, like, at all.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Honestly, up until the last episode I have liked this season (well, '"liked" when they kill off a couple central characters is not exactly the right term). 

I was not a fan of the last episode as it did nothing to promote the story, didn't really give us anything about her character we didn't already know. Felt like filler.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I'll say that I've liked this season more than season 2, but not as much as season 1, and I enjoy them playing with the format in this weeks episode as a change.

I do think having them split apart this season has hurt the chemistry a bit, but I like that they're trying something different.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Tony_T said:


> Was only her mom in the house? I know her brother was in the barn and she got the kid out, but was anyone else in the house?


Her brother was sleeping in the barn and she got the kid out. I think the only people in the house were her Mom, who was apparently already deceased, and the blonde. I assumed the blonde was her sister too, but I was never sure about that relationship. The blonde's boyfriend was the only one left in the initial group of people that Villanelle met when she first arrived but I don't believe he was in the house.

I assume this episode was to provide some back story as to Villanelle's nature. She was abandoned in an orphanage by her mother at a very young age and then told that her parents died in a car crash so she thought she was all alone in the world. Villanelle apparently had a strong connection with her father but the mother was less enthralled with him. I assume that mystery will be unraveled as time goes by.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

mr.unnatural said:


> Her brother was sleeping in the barn and she got the kid out. I think the only people in the house were her Mom, who was apparently already deceased, and the blonde. I assumed the blonde was her sister too, but I was never sure about that relationship. The blonde's boyfriend was the only one left in the initial group of people that Villanelle met when she first arrived but I don't believe he was in the house.


He definitely was there with the blonde girl.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I believe the family consisted of Tatiana (Villanelle's mother); Grigoriy (Tatiana's husband/boyfriend); Bor'ka (their son, the Elton fan, Villanelle's half-brother); Fyodor (Grigoriy's son); Yula (Fyodor's girlfriend); and Pyotr (Tatiana's son and Villanelle's full brother). And I see no reason to believe anybody but Bor'ka and Pyotr survived..?


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Without rewatching my impression is that couple isn't related to her. Probably related to the step-father, whom it was also implied was in the house. Her brother was in the barn, where Villanelle left the kid.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I believe the family consisted of Tatiana (Villanelle's mother); Grigoriy (Tatiana's husband/boyfriend); Bor'ka (their son, the Elton fan, Villanelle's half-brother); Fyodor (Grigoriy's son); Yula (Fyodor's girlfriend); and Pyotr (Tatiana's son and Villanelle's full brother). And I see no reason to believe anybody but Bor'ka and Pyotr survived..?


Yes, that is my take away as well.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> He definitely was there with the blonde girl.
> 
> View attachment 48994


Yup. There he is. He was just another annoyance to Villanelle anyway so it probably didn't matter to her if he was there or not.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Tony_T said:


> I saw her brother in the barn, he also said he sleeps there sometimes to watch the stars, but it wasn't until photoshopgrl posted the pic that I saw that his girlfriend was with him in the barn.


The pic is of the step-brother and girlfriend in the house. They're most likely dead. Her full brother was in the barn.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

cherry ghost said:


> The pic is of the step-brother and girlfriend in the house. They're most likely dead. Her full brother was in the barn.


Basically everyone we saw in that family house this episode is dead except her actual full brother and her step brother, the kid that loves Elton. Everyone else is (burnt) toast.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Yes, realized my mistake right after I posted it and deleted it (...but not fast enough)


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I guess we needed to see why she's a sociopath. Her mother was a awful human being.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I believe the mother was awful to her because of that "darkness ". Not excusing her, but sociopathy is nature, not nurture.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

wprager said:


> I believe the mother was awful to her because of that "darkness ". Not excusing her, but sociopathy is nature, not nurture.


How to Tell a Sociopath from a Psychopath



> The cause of psychopathy is different than the cause of sociopathy (1). It is believed that psychopathy is largely the result of "nature" (genetics) while sociopathy is more likely the result of "nurture" (environment). Psychopathy is related to a physiological defect that results in the underdevelopment of the part of the brain responsible for impulse control and emotions. *Sociopathy, on the other hand, is more likely the product of childhood trauma and physical, emotional abuse.* Because sociopathy appears to be learned rather than innate, sociopaths are capable of empathy in certain limited circumstances but not in others, and with a few individuals but not others.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

wprager said:


> I believe the mother was awful to her because of that "darkness ". Not excusing her, but sociopathy is nature, not nurture.


Well yeah that is the most recent belief. However, the outcome of a sociopath also depends on nurturing. Her mom should have seen it coming when she decided to vent on her. (The Bad Seed)


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> I believe the mother was awful to her because of that "darkness ". Not excusing her, but sociopathy is nature, not nurture.


And yet despite Villanelle inheriting her "darkness" from her father, her mother seems to be a much worse person...


gossamer88 said:


> How to Tell a Sociopath from a Psychopath


That is pretty far out of mainstream thinking these days. Current thinking is that the distinction between psychopath and sociopath is in the different ways people want to think about a single disorder.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

gossamer88 said:


> How to Tell a Sociopath from a Psychopath


According to the above, Villanelle is a psychopath (she's not nervous, she is well educated, she is able to hold a steady job).


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Like I said, I don't hold her mother entirely blameless, but I can't hang *all* of Villanelle's behavior on her. Clearly, much of it (given how her father shared her darkness) is genetic. Possibly it could have somehow be controlled if identified early (the mother dropped her off at the orphanage without warning then about her "darkness" and she ended up seeing there place on fire and killing people - that's on the mother).


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Could this be why they made this episode? We are having discussion about what made her what she is, based on what we now know about her family. Did we need to know this? Maybe.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Water-cooler talk is what made Lost unique. Gaunt vs. Goth (and others), while silly, had people incessantly discussing minor - often unimportant - points.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> I guess we needed to see why she's a sociopath. Her mother was a awful human being.


Her mother was a saint compared to Villanelle. Heck, her mother was an angel compared to Villanelle. Villanelle is an awful human being. Yeah, she's pretty, funny band sometimes charming but she's the worst kind of mentally ill - a remorseless murderer.

I know that speaking only English is Villanell's shtick but everybody (at least the ones important to the story) in some miscellaneous podunk Russian village speakingsome recognizable form of English and understanding Villanelle wasn't the most believable thing in the world.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

cheesesteak said:


> Her mother was a saint compared to Villanelle. Heck, her mother was an angel compared to Villanelle. Villanelle is an awful human being. Yeah, she's pretty, funny band sometimes charming but she's the worst kind of mentally ill - a remorseless murderer.


I think it's easy to forget this because she's so entertaining and Jody plays the character as likable despite being an unlikable character. My friend finally started the series and just go to Season 2 and out of nowhere I got "SHE SNAPPED HIS NECK!" message and it took me a minute to remember what that referenced.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And to be fair, when she kills somebody they usually deserve it.

Either that, or she's getting paid to kill them, so she's just doing her job.

Are you really going to condemn somebody for doing the world a favor and/or enjoying their work?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And to be fair, when she kills somebody they usually deserve it.
> 
> Either that, or she's getting paid to kill them, so she's just doing her job.
> 
> Are you really going to condemn somebody for doing the world a favor and/or enjoying their work?


There have been exceptions, like the kid in the hospital my friend flipped out over. I did argue that in her twisted mind she was doing him a favor, putting him out of his misery but STILL.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

photoshopgrl said:


> There have been exceptions, like the kid in the hospital my friend flipped out over. I did argue that in her twisted mind she was doing him a favor, putting him out of his misery but STILL.


I would also add Niko's mistress as an underserved. But that's just me.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Let's face it, anyone that kills people for a living with no remorse and actually enjoys it is not exactly normal.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

gossamer88 said:


> I would also add Niko's mistress as an underserved. But that's just me.


ahhh yes of course! She was annoying but did not deserve that!


mr.unnatural said:


> Let's face it, anyone that kills people for a living with no remorse and actually enjoys it is not exactly normal.


They planted that firmly the first few episodes when she expressed how much she liked watching the life drain from their eyes.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

She killed the nanny of the garbage-can baby. The only reason being that she was curious and let herself be seen. Unnecessary and totally unprofessional.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

wprager said:


> She killed the nanny of the garbage-can baby. The only reason being that she was curious and let herself be seen. Unnecessary and totally unprofessional.


I think she only went upstairs because she heard the baby, but once she saw the nanny she should have left. I do think she wanted to be seen so she could kill her. She sure had fun toying with her while she pretended she was going for the baby.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

photoshopgrl said:


> I do think she wanted to be seen so she could kill her. She sure had fun toying with her while she pretended she was going for the baby.


That was disturbing.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> I think she only went upstairs because she heard the baby, but once she saw the nanny she should have left. I do think she wanted to be seen so she could kill her. She sure had fun toying with her while she pretended she was going for the baby.


Once the nanny saw *her* she had no choice. But she was entirely responsible for being seen and it was unnecessary and unprofessional.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

This show is going off the rails for me. I don't like where they are going with both Villanelle or Konstantine's daughter. Also how is Niko still alive??? "Piss off forever" HAHA that was great though.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Wiat! What? Niko is still alive??!! Oh damn should not have not clicked this thread. Oh who cares...I don't even care anymore...LOL


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

gossamer88 said:


> Wiat! What? Niko is still alive??!! Oh damn should not have not clicked this thread. Oh who cares...I don't even care anymore...LOL


I did this same thing last week!


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I thought the same thing about Niko. He should at least be fully paralyzed but no he will probably walking around in a few episodes. Definitely the worst season of the bunch. There is no way this season deserves IMDB ratings in the 8s this year.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Well, he was stabbed in the throat...there's no need for his spine to have been damaged, if the tines went on either side...


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, he was stabbed in the throat...there's no need for his spine to have been damaged, if the tines went on either side...


And somehow missed his jugular!


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Wait, I'm confused. What makes anyone think Niko survived? The most I had read was that there was no confirmation that he was killed. But, really, is his character still required?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> Wait, I'm confused. What makes anyone think Niko survived? The most I had read was that there was no confirmation that he was killed. But, really, is his character still required?


Well, the fact that he is a significant character in the latest episode might serve as something of a clue...


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

photoshopgrl said:


> I don't like where they are going with both Villanelle or Konstantine's daughter.


In a lot of ways the new writer this season is predictable. The first scene Villanelle and Irina (14 year old daughter of Konstantin) shared alone together talking on the swings and in the car it struck me these two are kindred spirits and Irina will end up a sociopathic killer just like Villanelle. Sure enough, 30 minutes later......

It's like they're laying the groundwork for a spinoff where Irina is the new Villanelle and (maybe Geraldine?) is the new Eve when the main cast decides to wrap things up.

I couldn't help but also notice the resemblance between Irina and Geraldine but for now that's probably just a coincidence.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

series5orpremier said:


> I couldn't help but also notice the resemblance between Irina and Geraldine but for now that's probably just a coincidence.


Well, why not? He's Irina's father, he's possibly Kenny's father, Geraldine makes sense.

Hell, maybe he ends up being Villanelle's father!


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Yeah, I added "for now" because I didn't want to go too far out on a limb once I researched that Irina was cast in an episode 2 years ago while Geraldine is a new character this year. I suppose they could have looked at the Geraldine actresses' resemblance to Irina as a big plus when doing the casting for this season.

EDIT: It took two years to get them back together but there was a lot of similar bickering back and forth between Villanelle and Irina in the Season 1 finale "God, I'm Tired".


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

series5orpremier said:


> In a lot of ways the new writer this season is predictable. The first scene Villanelle and Irina (14 year old daughter of Konstantin) shared alone together talking on the swings and in the car it struck me these two are kindred spirits and Irina will end up a sociopathic killer just like Villanelle. Sure enough, 30 minutes later......
> 
> It's like they're laying the groundwork for a spinoff where Irina is the new Villanelle and (maybe Geraldine?) is the new Eve when the main cast decides to wrap things up.
> 
> I couldn't help but also notice the resemblance between Irina and Geraldine but for now that's probably just a coincidence.


Haven't they been pushing the fact that Villanelle wants to have someone to boss around? Maybe that's where Irina will come in?

I agree, this season has gone off the rails for me. There needs to be much more interaction with Eve and Villanelle. They've hardly even teased each other this season.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, the fact that he is a significant character in the latest episode might serve as something of a clue...


Ah, crap. My wife stopped watching so I don't watch very regularly. Completely forgot there is a new episode.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

wprager said:


> Ah, crap. My wife stopped watching so I don't watch very regularly. Completely forgot there is a new episode.


Actually two new episodes since he was pitchforked.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

series5orpremier said:


> Actually two new episodes since he was pitchforked.


But he wasn't back in the first one.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

gossamer88 said:


> Wiat! What? Niko is still alive??!! Oh damn should not have not clicked this thread. Oh who cares...I don't even care anymore...LOL


When I saw the scene where Niko was "forked", I was disturbed because a pitchfork in the neck seemed unlikely to be a reliably fatal injury, and an aged assassin (or a Russian farm girl) should know this.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> When I saw the scene where Niko was "forked", I was disturbed because a pitchfork in the neck seemed unlikely to be a reliably fatal injury, and an aged assassin (or a Russian farm girl) should know this.












When Dasha left the "STILL GOT IT!" tag she intended to make Eve believe Villanelle was responsible for the forking. Eve did not believe it.

But from the point of view of the writers there was a deliberate calculated double meaning. Dasha no longer has it. How are the mighty fallen.

Maybe age accounts for the fall of Dasha, maybe something else. After her botched assassination of the Romanian politician and going on the run it seems the young Villanelle also no longer has it. Maybe Villanelle no longer having it is in part fall out from her killing her mother. Although maybe she wanted to become a Keeper to get the real names of the Twelve and that isn't happening.

Episode title End of Game also has more than candidate who/what it applies to.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pgogborn said:


> After her botched assassination of the Romanian politician and going on the run it seems the young Villanelle also no longer has it. Maybe Villanelle no longer having it is in part fall out from her killing her mother. Although maybe she wanted to become a Keeper to get the real names of the Twelve and that isn't happening.


Although she's been pretty sloppy (even by her standards) all season...

She needs more Eve in her life!


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> When I saw the scene where Niko was "forked", I was disturbed because a pitchfork in the neck seemed unlikely to be a reliably fatal injury, and an aged assassin (or a Russian farm girl) should know this.


A pitchfork to the neck should be very fatal when it's done on an isolated, remote farm in Poland. Eve just happened to be there and (presumably) got medical attention.

I would have high-5'd Niko when he told Eve to piss off if he weren't a fictional character.

Konstantin is my favorite character on this show.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Although she's been pretty sloppy (even by her standards) all season...


One of the things that bugs me is that Villanelle is not only a sloppy murderer (fingerprints, DNA, surveillance video...) but she's incredibly insubordinate too. If I ran The Twelve, we would have bumped her off and moved on to a more cooperative assassin a long time ago. They're fortunate that Europe's various police agencies all seem to have the crime solving ability of Barney Fife. I know... It's a tv show.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> One of the things that bugs me is that Villanelle is not only a sloppy murderer (fingerprints, DNA, surveillance video...) but she's incredibly insubordinate too. If I ran The Twelve, we would have bumped her off and moved on to a more cooperative assassin a long time ago. They're fortunate that Europe's various police agencies all seem to have the crime solving ability of Barney Fife. I know... It's a tv show.


But then who would be killing Eve? 

I get all that, but it's one of those shows you really need to suspend belief and just go with it. My problem with this season is that the best part of the show is the interaction and the cat and mouse stuff between Eve and Villanelle, and we've has almost none of it. Just one scene on the bus.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I miss Kenny and Elena. That little team in season 1 was the best. I know the actress that played Elena was on 5 shows I was watching at the same time too. That may be a first for me seeing someone in so many simultaneous roles.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> One of the things that bugs me is that Villanelle is not only a sloppy murderer (fingerprints, DNA, surveillance video...) but she's incredibly insubordinate too. If I ran The Twelve, we would have bumped her off and moved on to a more cooperative assassin a long time ago. They're fortunate that Europe's various police agencies all seem to have the crime solving ability of Barney Fife. I know... It's a tv show.


Remember that it's Villanelle's sloppiness and egotism that put her on Eve's radar to begin with (Eve was the only one who even believed Villanelle existed when the show began)...


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Remember that it's Villanelle's sloppiness and egotism that put her on Eve's radar to begin with (Eve was the only one who even believed Villanelle existed when the show began)...


And also the fact that people like MI6 do know Villanelle exists and have identified and used her on their own assassinations makes it a bit more plausible why she's never been apprehended. Her prints are probably not in any main database.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> And also the fact that people like MI6 do know Villanelle exists and have identified and used her on their own assassinations makes it a bit more plausible why she's never been apprehended. Her prints are probably not in any main database.


It some ways she's like a super hero villain, like from those old Batman shows. She almost announces to the good guys that she's who she is and dares people to catch them. That's her game with Eve. She wants to draw her out into the open and play whatever psycho sexual game with her that she wants. That's who she is. That's what's fun about her character.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Steveknj said:


> It some ways she's like a super hero villain, like from those old Batman shows. She almost announces to the good guys that she's who she is and dares people to catch them. *That's her game with Eve. She wants to draw her out into the open and play whatever psycho sexual game with her that she wants. That's who she is. That's what's fun about her character.*


And that's what's not fun about this season. We aren't getting squat of this.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

photoshopgrl said:


> And that's what's not fun about this season. We aren't getting squat of this.


Yeah, that was a serious miscalculation. I mean, I can see why they thought about doing it; shaking things up can be good. But in this case, they should have thought just a tiny bit more and realized they were cutting the heart out of the show.


photoshopgrl said:


> And also the fact that people like MI6 do know Villanelle exists and have identified and used her on their own assassinations makes it a bit more plausible why she's never been apprehended. Her prints are probably not in any main database.


Wasn't that a Season 2 ret-con, though? I thought in the first season Eve was (at first) the only one who believed she existed...


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wasn't that a Season 2 ret-con, though? I thought in the first season Eve was (at first) the only one who believed she existed...


Yes. About the time we saw it was Carolyn visiting Villanelle in prison, the wheels slowly began to dismount.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It's weird how I can readily accept the plot silliness on a show like Snowpiercer but this show drives me nuts.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> It's weird how I can readily accept the plot silliness on a show like Snowpiercer but this show drives me nuts.


Not so weird, really. I think it has to do with how seriously you perceive the show as taking itself. Snowpiercer obviously isn't trying to be realistic. Killing Eve, to a larger extent, is. So it depends on whether you're taking the show seriously enough for its departures from reality to bother you.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> I get all that, but it's one of those shows you really need to suspend belief and just go with it


How do you suspend *belief*?


----------



## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I don't necessarily mind plot silliness but this show just started meandering. Showrunners on many shows periodically seem to do this thing where they split the band up and have them go off on their little tangents for some character development and bring them all back together at the end. First I hate that process and second in this case the character development other than possibly Jodie Comer has been nothing.

Even the creative deaths have been pretty boring. The baby in the trash was probably the most entertaining part of the season.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

zalusky said:


> I don't necessarily mind plot silliness but this show just started meandering. Showrunners on many shows periodically seem to do this thing where they split the band up and have them go off on their little tangents for some character development and bring them all back together at the end. First I hate that process and second in this case the character development other than possibly Jodie Comer has been nothing.
> 
> Even the creative deaths have been pretty boring. The baby in the trash was probably the most entertaining part of the season.


That and Jodi's Villanelle laugh at the world being flat.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I was expecting a poor S3 when I read that the new showrunner was a writer on FTWD before the premiere:

NYT Review: A 'Killing Eve' That No One Was Asking For

_For Season 3, which premieres Sunday on BBC America and AMC, the show has changed up its staff again, *replacing Fennell with Suzanne Heathcote, a writer on AMC's "Fear the Walking Dead,"* and using all new writers and directors (through the five episodes available for review). And this time the news isn't so good.

"Killing Eve" isn't a bad show now, but it's a different show, in depressing ways - less vital, more ordinary. It is still shocking here and there but largely devoid of surprise. A mordant and sexy comic thriller edged with terror has become a competent psychodrama bordered with sentimentality. The air has gone out of it._​


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> A pitchfork to the neck should be very fatal when it's done on an isolated, remote farm in Poland. Eve just happened to be there and (presumably) got medical attention.


 I mean, Eve didn't just happen to be there. Irina staked out the place (killing the previous woman who ran it and feeding her to her pigs--Swearengen!) and waited specifically for Eve to show up before forking her husband where she would actually see it happen.


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

wprager said:


> How do you suspend *belief*?


Skepticism; incredulity.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

ej42137 said:


> Skepticism; incredulity.


Those things are natural. How do you *actively* go a step further?

"I think therefore I am" is false.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

wprager said:


> Those things are natural. How do you *actively* go a step further?
> 
> "I think therefore I am" is false.


You are getting into semantics here. It's a common expression. Used here all the time. Lots of expressions are improper English.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

madscientist said:


> (killing the previous woman who ran it and feeding her to her pigs--Swearengen!)


:tearsofjoy: I thought this exact thing when they showed it!


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> You are getting into semantics here. It's a common expression. Used here all the time. Lots of expressions are improper English.


I think what was being pointed out is that the usual form of the expression is _suspend *disbelief*_, not _suspend *belief*_. That is, you'd normally disbelieve something outlandish but you suspend that disbelief. But, seems a bit picky


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

madscientist said:


> But, seems a bit picky


You must be new 

Hey, I'm stuck at home with 4 kids who would all rather be somewhere else. Cut me some slack.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

wprager said:


> You must be new
> 
> Hey, I'm stuck at home with 4 kids who would all rather be somewhere else. Cut me some slack.


 Slack cut!

Stay safe, stay sane...


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

wprager said:


> Those things are natural. How do you *actively* go a step further?


For example, one might choose to suspend belief in the face of equivocal evidence, that which does not convince one of the antithesis but removes confidence in the original proposition.

OP obviously mistyped and meant "disbelief" instead, but your remark made less sense than theirs.



wprager said:


> "I think therefore I am" is false.


There's a reason the title included the word "impure".


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Well only one left. This season has been a bust overall, for me. I was a bit shocked at Eve stepping on Dasha like that. Then Dasha doesn't die. Boooo. Her character has really dragged the show down this season. I was happy that Konstantin didn't die though. 

I dunno guys. This show just didn't do it for me this season. I'm really not sure I'll return unless they really end it with a bang. We've now had 2 scenes with Villanelle and Eve? The entire season? Sigh.


----------



## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

photoshopgrl said:


> Well only one left. This season has been a bust overall, for me. I was a bit shocked at Eve stepping on Dasha like that. Then Dasha doesn't die. Boooo. Her character has really dragged the show down this season. I was happy that Konstantin didn't die though.
> 
> I dunno guys. This show just didn't do it for me this season. I'm really not sure I'll return unless they really end it with a bang. We've now had 2 scenes with Villanelle and Eve? The entire season? Sigh.


This season has been a sack of hot garbage. I dont see any way they redeem it with one episode left.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Out of curiosity, how many scenes together did they have in S1?


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Even Shirley Manson (Garbage) hates this season:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264603922825482245


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

wprager said:


> Out of curiosity, how many scenes together did they have in S1?


There weren't many, but it was different in that S1 was about Eve's hunt to find Villanelle. Last season they were together quite a bit. Maybe we were spoiled?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Steveknj said:


> There weren't many, but it was different in that S1 was about Eve's hunt to find Villanelle. Last season they were together quite a bit. Maybe we were spoiled?


They had many in season 1. And some of them were long scenes. Hell they had a scene in the very first episode, in the bathroom. Just off the top of my head they had at least four. That one, then on the road when she was chasing Frank, then in her house, then when Eve stabs her in the finale. Maybe others I'm not remembering right off.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Why did Konstantin allow his daughter to be arrested and put in that detention facility? I thought they were ready to flee the country for good. If so, why not just flee and leave the dead guy in the driveway? Or if they were interested in trying to reduce the suspicion, they could have thrown his body in the car and dumped it somewhere along the way. But to basically turn his own daughter in made no sense in their situation.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Did they show him turning her in? Maybe the mother saw what happened and turned her in?


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Tony_T said:


> Did they show him turning her in? Maybe the mother saw what happened and turned her in?


I would have to assume this but it was very odd the mother was nowhere in sight......?


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

...or maybe he was still alive and turned her in?
(Hard to kill someone on this show recently )


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

My understanding was Konstantin was there at her house to get her so they could flee to Cuba at that exact minute. So the daughter was probably sneaking out and she was the only one who knew Konstantin was there. So after she runs the guy over, she and Konstantin could have easily just driven away and escaped. The fact that the next scene has them together in a detention facility with her being evaluated for running the guy over makes it pretty clear that Konstantin decided not to just drive away at that point.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> I would have to assume this but it was very odd the mother was nowhere in sight......?


It only takes one person to take out the trash to the bin, all the house lights were on, there is no reason to think the mother or another person wasn't at home. And although the property is large and not very close to the next property it is possible a person in a neighbouring property could have heard what had happened.

And for a real life version of what could have happened. Unlike in the show with the stunt man getting onto the bonnet the car could have been damaged, they did not have enough time / think fast enough to switch to one of the undamaged family cars, a smart cop detecting new damage and perhaps erratic driving could have pulled them over.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> ...
> makes it pretty clear that Konstantin decided not to just drive away at that point.


We did not see Konstantin arrive in a car, perhaps he did not have his own wheels and the daughter using a family car was always part of the plan.

(I recall Konstantin being a car passenger several times, more often than being a driver)


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

My favorite moment this season is when they asked Konstatin if he's been under any stress and he bursts out laughing. He has the best laugh. 

On the whole I've been bored quite a bit. Dascha was not a good addition to the story for me.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm uncertain about a lot of what I just watched tbh.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

That didn't resolve anything. It just made Carolyn look like part of the conspiracy. Too much style over storyline. When Eve and Villanelle finally meet up there wasn't chemistry just awkwardness. They belittled Kenny by glossing over his death. This season could have been written so much better.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Predictable that Carolyn turned the gun at the end. 
Very predictable that they turned to look at each other at the end.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm going to give them the season 4 premiere but if it starts out anything like this season, I'm not going to watch it. I waited the entire season for it to get better and it didn't.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I deleted my 1Pass (but I also did last year, and later put it back)


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I thought the finale was one of the better episodes of a pretty lousy season. But still not great. There's still "something" between Eve and Villanelle and maybe that's why I felt that. I'm still in for S4 but it's on a very short leash.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

This season wasn’t good. I am hoping that Villanelle joins the “good guys” though.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Beryl said:


> This season wasn't good. I am hoping that Villanelle joins the "good guys" though.


I really don't want that because I won't be convinced you can go from psychopath assassin to good guy. Her entire "I don't want to do this anymore" just doesn't ring true for me based on how the character acted in season 1.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Which guys are “good” though? It looks like corruption resides within the legitimate organizations. That is the group she should join if she isn’t already unwittingly a part. Eve needs to bring it all down.


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Done with this show. I barely lasted this season. And yeah, I knew Eve would look back...what a luh-hoo-zer-her!


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

photoshopgrl said:


> I really don't want that because I won't be convinced you can go from psychopath assassin to good guy. Her entire "I don't want to do this anymore" just doesn't ring true for me based on how the character acted in season 1.


But they are not "good" guys.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Beryl said:


> Which guys are "good" though? It looks like corruption resides within the legitimate organizations. That is the group she should join if she isn't already unwittingly a part. Eve needs to bring it all down.


At the very least Carolyn is unethical. She's also so incredibly callous to the point it's getting hard to distinguish her from sociopath Villanelle (V is just much more skilled at killing).


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm not as down on this season as most, but I agree this wasn't as good as S1. I'm guessing S4 will likely be the end.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I wasn't happy with this season, but two things give me hope: A) Eve and Villanelle are finally back together; and B) the show has had a different showrunner each season, so next season should have a different (hopefully, better and truer to the spirit of the show) sensibility.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

wprager said:


> But they are not "good" guys.


Okay perhaps I should have reworded it. She wants to go from psychopath assassin to just a normal non killing spy type. Either way, I stand my ground.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I wasn't happy with this season, but two things give me hope: *A) Eve and Villanelle are finally back together*; and B) the show has had a different showrunner each season, so next season should have a different (hopefully, better and truer to the spirit of the show) sensibility.


But are they back together? They said they were going to go on their way and never have any contact with each other again. Then they both looked back and the season ended. I suspect that the next season will follow a similar structure of putting some obstacle between them and having them separated for some portion of the season.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> Okay perhaps I should have reworded it. She wants to go from psychopath assassin to just a normal non killing spy type. Either way, I stand my ground.


Or Villanelle goes from being "their psychopath assassin" to "our psychopath assassin" in S04


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I get the feeling that she turns Eve into "our psychopath assassin" and I feel that Eve needs her more than Villanelle needs Eve.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

dianebrat said:


> Or Villanelle goes from being "their psychopath assassin" to "our psychopath assassin" in S04


But as Carolyn said, if she doesn't want to kill, they have no use for her.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> But are they back together? They said they were going to go on their way and never have any contact with each other again. Then they both looked back and the season ended. I suspect that the next season will follow a similar structure of putting some obstacle between them and having them separated for some portion of the season.


Together in the sense of interacting. Which they didn't do until very late in the season, and not significantly until this episode.

The whole show (AFAIC) is about the interaction between the two characters. Everything else is gravy. Without that, the show was...well, not nothing. It's gravy. Which kinda sucks without meat and potatoes. But what it wasn't was Killing Eve.

So they don't have to be roomies. But they DO have to interact.

(I also get the impression that the showrunners have been playing a serial game with each other..."OK, next guy, let's see where you go from HERE!")


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

photoshopgrl said:


> But as Carolyn said, if she doesn't want to kill, they have no use for her.


I don't think she will ever lose her bloodlust. She had it in spades during the finale. She might evolve into a different kind of killer.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Beryl said:


> I don't think she will ever lose her bloodlust. She had it in spades during the finale. She might evolve into a different kind of killer.


She'd make a great serial killer!

OK, that sounds wrong.

But oh, so right!


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

wprager said:


> But they are not "good" guys.


But the MI-6 guys are gooder than The Twelve guys. Villanelle has no skill other than murder, plus she's extraordinarily undisciplined and undependable. But the show is part comedy so she'll more than likely join MI-6 in some role.

So Kenny just fell off the roof? Really? Konstantin knew and kept quiet? Konstantin is my favorite character on the show by far so I personally don't want to believe he'd do that to Carolyn.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that Eve is attracted to Villanelle. I just can't. So any time the show depicts their mating ritual, it's like coarse sandpaper on my brain.

I wonder if Villanelle's ridiculous outfits are specifically made for the show or if there's a designer who really markets these 60s mod era clothes to the public.

I deleted the One Pass but it wouldn't surprise me that I punish myself (and you guys) by creating a new one for next season.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> But the MI-6 guys are gooder than The Twelve guys. Villanelle has no skill other than murder, plus she's extraordinarily undisciplined and undependable. But the show is part comedy so she'll more than likely join MI-6 in some role.
> 
> So Kenny just fell off the roof? Really? Konstantin knew and kept quiet? Konstantin is my favorite character on the show by far so I personally don't want to believe he'd do that to Carolyn.
> 
> ...


I'm actually surprised that Villanelle is attracted to Eve. But she's psychotic so who knows? To me the whole "who killed Kenny" thing was a waste of time. I'm honestly not even sure what this season was about.

As of the outfits, it's clear at least to me that they've made Villanelle somewhat of a fashionista. And she's in the mold of a 1960s Austin Powers type. I don't know, but I think it is one thing that actually adds to the show.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

cheesesteak said:


> I wonder if Villanelle's ridiculous outfits are specifically made for the show or if there's a designer who really markets these 60s mod era clothes to the public.


I can help on this one. Some of it is vintage like my favorite blue kimono jacket she wore last season but a lot of it is for sale or recently for sale on posh sites like Farfetch. Someone created an instagram for her fashion on the show and they do an amazing job of finding the sources. Login • Instagram


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Villanelle is psychotic? I think you meant psychopathic. But did we ever determine whether she's a psychopath or a sociopath?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> Villanelle is psychotic? I think you meant psychopathic. But did we ever determine whether she's a psychopath or a sociopath?


Technically, there's no distinction...that's just two different ways of looking at the same psychiatric disorder.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Technically, there's no distinction...that's just two different ways of looking at the same psychiatric disorder.


Have you forgotten where we are? This is the place where volumes were devoted to "gaunt" vs "goth". You can't simply dismiss this as the same.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> Have you forgotten where we are? This is the place where volumes were devoted to "gaunt" vs "goth". You can't simply dismiss this as the same.


But Goth and Gaunt are literally two different things, so the situation is entirely ARGH I just proved your point, didn't I?


----------



## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Technically, there's no distinction...that's just two different ways of looking at the same psychiatric disorder.


There is a SIGNIFICANT difference among the three terms in the post to which you are referring. Psychotic refers to someone who is losing his or her grip on reality. A psychopath tends to live outside the social norm - he has no empathy and is typically manipulative, but is very aware of his (or her) environment and actions and their impact on others. A sociopath is generally impulsive and does not form personal attachments easily. He or she is prone to outbursts or erratic activity with no forethought or planning.

My psych classes were a long time ago, but these (and other) disorders were frequent topics of discussion.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ADG said:


> There is a SIGNIFICANT difference among the three terms in the post to which you are referring. Psychotic refers to someone who is losing his or her grip on reality. A psychopath tends to live outside the social norm - he has no empathy and is typically manipulative, but is very aware of his (or her) environment and actions and their impact on others. A sociopath is generally impulsive and does not form personal attachments easily. He or she is prone to outbursts or erratic activity with no forethought or planning.
> 
> My psych classes were a long time ago, but these (and other) disorders were frequent topics of discussion.


There is _technically _no difference between psychopaths and sociopaths...or rather, they technically don't exist (those are two different words for people with Antisocial Personality Disorder). Psychopath and sociopath are just distinctions that some people use between different gradations of APD. But the words have no literal clinical meaning, and different people use them differently.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I think the correct psychiatric term for Villanelle is "throwed off" as in definition #4 in Urban Dictionary: Throwed Off.


----------



## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There is _technically _no difference between psychopaths and sociopaths...or rather, they technically don't exist (those are two different words for people with Antisocial Personality Disorder). Psychopath and sociopath are just distinctions that some people use between different gradations of APD. But the words have no literal clinical meaning, and different people use them differently.


You're mistaken, but it's certainly not important enough to argue about. Sorry I said anything


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sociopath vs. Psychopath: What's the Difference?



> You won't find the definitions in mental health's official handbook, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Doctors don't officially diagnose people as psychopaths or sociopaths. They use a different term instead: antisocial personality disorder.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I think cray-cray works too


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> I think cray-cray works too


If _that's_ not in the _Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders_, then there is no justice in the world.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Ah, *that's* the TCF I remember!

P.S. I know goth/gaunt are completely different, but they free the desired effect


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

photoshopgrl said:


> But as Carolyn said, if she doesn't want to kill, they have no use for her.


It could be that Carolyn fears she could uncover a truth that is damaging to Carolyn. She has terminated Paul, she has let Konstantine flee to Cuba.

Villanelle previously said she wanted to find out the real names of the Twelve, it could have been one of the reasons she wanted to become a Keeper. I think she is capable of hunting down the Twelve.

She could be extra motivated to do so because they would have put a target on her back after she botched their order to kill Dasha and executed the person who Helene (not her real name) sent to tell her to come to a meeting.


----------



## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

And we're off... let the debate rage for 20 pages.

Liked the finale okay. Thought the Kenny explanation was weak sauce.


----------



## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

pgogborn said:


> Villanelle previously said she wanted to find out the real names of the Twelve, it could have been one of the reasons she wanted to become a Keeper. I think she is capable of hunting down the Twelve.


Thought about that the other night - it's one thing that could help redeem season 4, if she and Eve hunt them down one-by-one with Kill Bill glamour, each hit more bizarre than the last. Then Eve literally becomes Killing Eve.


----------



## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

wprager said:


> Villanelle is psychotic? I think you meant psychopathic. But did we ever determine whether she's a psychopath or a sociopath?


I thought she was just plain nuts.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> I thought she was just plain nuts.


Plain?

PLAIN?!?


----------



## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

mr.unnatural said:


> I thought she was just plain nuts.


She is more like chili lime nuts.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

Is anyone watching Season 4?


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Yes. Me.


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I am, but I find myself scrolling on my phone while watching and am confused as to what the hell is going on...


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Me too (three). No thread, eh? I can change the title to S3 & S4 if you want.

I enjoy watching the two leads, but I get the feeling this was a season in search of a reason.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

astrohip said:


> Me too (three). No thread, eh? I can change the title to S3 & S4 if you want.
> 
> I enjoy watching the two leads, but I get the feeling this was a season in search of a reason.


new thread or existing, either is ok with me, there doesn't appear to be much interest so far.

i'm watching, too (and waiting for a story to develop to take us to the finale, thinking we're still not there yet) - mostly enjoying, but i'll admit to pausing and walking away a couple of times...


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> new thread or existing, either is ok with me, there doesn't appear to be much interest so far.
> 
> i'm watching, too (and waiting for a story to develop to take us to the finale, thinking we're still not there yet) - mostly enjoying, but i'll admit to pausing and walking away a couple of times...


Ditto. The entire religious thing in the beginning was a turn off but it seems to be getting back on track. 

I enjoyed the first 3 seasons but glad this is the final one. I hope it ends in epic fashion.


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

astrohip said:


> Me too (three). No thread, eh? I can change the title to S3 & S4 if you want.
> 
> I enjoy watching the two leads, but I get the feeling this was a season in search of a reason.


Yeah, I think changing the title of this is good. Also season in search of a reason is dead on. "Nelle" is still hilarious but I find myself bored with the entire 12 plot. Caroline is a bore for me so anything surrounding her I check out now. Eve is great but her entire thing of accepting to die to find the head of the 12 is a bit wack for me and the obsession seems to be out of nowhere or am I forgetting something? I almost wish I hadn't started the season and let the finale of season 3 be the end. It would have been better. Hope they change my mind before the end of the series.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Title changed.

I find Sandra Oh and Jodie Comer fascinating to watch. Very good actors, and I can't tear my eyes away when they're both on-screen. If not for them, I'd be gone, because there's not enough story to hold me any more. 

And knowing it's the final season, and only four eps left, makes it easy to stick around. I guess we'll find out whatever The Twelve is, whether we care or not.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

This season is so weird. I have no idea what's going on.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I thought last night was pretty good. Got to see the origin of Caroline and Konstantin. 

No way Villanelle is dead.

Yeah, what @Shakhari said. 😵


----------



## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Nice setup for the next episode. Hate to see this show ending. Its been a consistent favorite.

Is anyone else a week ahead?


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

KungFuCow said:


> Is anyone else a week ahead?


You mean watching the "streaming drops one week early" episode?

No. I'm not even sure I know what it streams on.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> You mean watching the "streaming drops one week early" episode?
> 
> No. I'm not even sure I know what it streams on.


It's on AMC+, which I don't have, so I am watching as they air on either BBCA or AMC (which supposedly has an "enhanced" episode every week).


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Two part (ie, two hours) *series finale* tonight.


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

My prediction. Both Eve and Villanelle live, Carolyn kills many MI6 officers. In by


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

pgogborn said:


> Both Eve and Villanelle live


But happily ever after? 😁


----------



## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

astrohip said:


> But happily ever after? 😁


 There is more than one way to interpret the title Killing Eve.

For most of the time it seemed to point to the spiritual or actual death of Eve. Now it could refer to Eve being a killer. So yes, maybe happily ever after killing together


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

It was... okay-ish. Not great, certainly didn't stick the landing. The writers had a dilemma, there wasn't much room to maneuver. Both dying would be too tragic, both living... eh, they'd get bored over time, they're no Ozzie & Harriet. But that's when great writers do their magic. Extraordinary writing could have figured out a more satisfactory ending than the one we got., which was just meh.

The show struggled to create cohesive seasons after the first couple. I kept watching, on the strength of the actors. Sandra Oh, Jodie Comer, Fiona Shaw, Kim Bodnia... just superb. The writing was never as strong as they were (except S1). And sadly, this final season just confirmed it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, I thought the first season was sensational, but the show really had nowhere to go but down from there. At least it didn't go down too far (like some other shows I can think of with sensational beginnings).


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

WTF was that? What a let down. That has to be the most frustrating finale since the Sopranos cut to black.


----------



## KungFuCow (May 6, 2004)

Shakhari said:


> WTF was that? What a let down. That has to be the most frustrating finale since the Sopranos cut to black.


Indeed. When they cut away to Carolyn, I checked how much time was left and said "Theyre really going to end it like THIS?!"


----------



## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

Future generations: ignore what you're reading here, there was only one season of this show. Don't verify this, just watch "Season One" and walk away.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Crikey!


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513245692415807488


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

After every episode this season I'd wonder if I missed an episode that would explain what was going on.


----------



## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Season 1 was really "must watch tv". Season 2 was okay, but the trend was definitely downhill. After that, well I guess all the posts above this one say all there is to say


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Kinda reminds me of Mr Robot...a spectacular concept that wasn't built to last.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

It's just a shame that they couldn't figure out how to make this work after the first season. The acting has always been good and the ambience is fun.


----------



## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Shakhari said:


> After every episode this season I'd wonder if I missed an episode that would explain what was going on.


Same here. My wife and I both found this season to be very confusing. As a whole, I'd say the show was above average, but definitely not great. I agree that the first season was excellent, but it went downhill big time after that, and ultimately became a convoluted mess in the final season.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Well, the finale did live up to this season.


----------



## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

I wish they'd stuck with Phoebe Waller-Bridge as show runner rather than changing every season. It went downhill every time they brought in a new head writer.

Although I did think season 4 was a little better than season 3 … it got a certain amount of the season 1 vibe back, particularly in the Konstantine & Pam scenes. But "better than season 3" was a very, very low bar. And just like the previous season, many of this year's episodes spent too much time on characters I didn't care about, referring to plot lines I could only vaguely remember the outlines of.

And of course killing off the two best characters was not a great move.

If I could wave a magic wand and change the show for the better, I'd replace seasons 2–4 with something focused more on Konstantin & Villanelle. Or at least focus more on the comedy of season 1, which was mostly lost in later seasons.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The writer of the books is. Not. Happy.









‘Villanelle will be back!’ Killing Eve’s author speaks out over the catastrophic TV finale


The characters I created on the page have been a lifeline to so many. But I have words of comfort for fans devastated by its punishing ending




www.theguardian.com


----------



## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

I think if I were asked by someone if they should watch this show, I would still say yes but I would warn them that it declines in quality with each season. I think knowing that ahead of time, the show would be enjoyable. We expected season 1 quality throughout (as we should) and it didn't live up to that. It was still a very enjoyable ride though, thanks to Jodie. IMO of course.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

photoshopgrl said:


> I think if I were asked by someone if they should watch this show, I would still say yes but I would warn them that it declines in quality with each season. I think knowing that ahead of time, the show would be enjoyable. We expected season 1 quality throughout (as we should) and it didn't live up to that. It was still a very enjoyable ride though, thanks to Jodie. IMO of course.


Agreed. I'd also mention from S2 onward, watch for the performances of Sandra Oh and Jodie Comer who were excellent throughout. Otherwise the story gets convoluted and silly.


----------

