# Heroes "Seven Minutes to Midnight" OAD 11/13/2006 *spoilers*



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

And the story keeps rolling along towards the big event. Wow this show moves so quickly. Next week, please bring on next week already!


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

THis show always seems like it's only 20 minutes long! I need more! 

OK, so .. just how far back did Hiro go? Did they mention how long ago her birthday part was?


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## rawbi01 (Oct 13, 2005)

This show rocks! No Nikki but I've been liking her latley. The scene at the end with Hiro in the picture and his buddy wondering where he was..


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Have I mentioned how much I love this show?

I love love LOVE this show! It's going to burn itself out in one season, but what a season! Whoo hoo!


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Did anybody else see minor video glitches? Every couple of minutes my picture would freeze for half a second or a second, then "jump" to the normal position. This didn't look like any TiVo glitch I've ever encountered. Audio didn't seem to be affected by this. It was a minor annoyance; it didn't really get in the way too much, but it was noticeable enough to be, well, slightly annoying. I'm watching via DirecTV (and a Sony SAT-T60 DirecTiVo) in the Providence, RI DMA.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

srs5694 said:


> Did anybody else see minor video glitches? Every couple of minutes my picture would freeze for half a second or a second, then "jump" to the normal position. This didn't look like any TiVo glitch I've ever encountered. Audio didn't seem to be affected by this. It was a minor annoyance; it didn't really get in the way too much, but it was noticeable enough to be, well, slightly annoying. I'm watching via DirecTV (and a Sony SAT-T60 DirecTiVo) in the Providence, RI DMA.


Maybe it was Hiro stopping time.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Great, great, great show. I was kind of thrown at the beginning when Isaac was with Eden, and freaked for a minute thinking I missed an episode, but I figured it out. 

(By the way, if there are any Everwood fans here: Eden played Lannie in Season 1 on Everwood.)


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

OMG! OMG! OMG!

In the first, what, 7 minutes? They introduced us to a new person with abilities (the memory girl) and confirm pixie girl has them too (just in case we doubted it.)

This week was a couple of minutes short, they started late but ended right at 10.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

rawbi01 said:


> This show rocks! No Nikki


No *Niki* either


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

slydog75 said:


> OK, so .. just how far back did Hiro go? Did they mention how long ago her birthday part was?


6 Minutes in.. she says "I got this Japanese phrase book for my birthday about 6 months ago and I started poking through it last week."

So, Hiro went back 6 months. He probably even gave her the book


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

slydog75 said:


> THis show always seems like it's only 20 minutes long! I need more!


Exactly. I'm always a bit confused about everything I've just seen in the show, but at the same time it goes so quickly I do feel like Hiro (or someone) in the show is using a time machine to make the show go incredibly fast.



slydog75 said:


> OK, so .. just how far back did Hiro go? Did they mention how long ago her birthday part was?


Yes, please on that question. He is certainly starting to get the hang of his powers and now seems to be ready to start using it in a way that makes sense. The young lady also seemed to be helping him learn the English he spoke so well in the future (when he showed up as super Ninja with the great sword!).



Graymalkin said:


> Have I mentioned how much I love this show?


Just a few times?  :up:



Graymalkin said:


> I love love LOVE this show! It's going to burn itself out in one season, but what a season! Whoo hoo!


Oh god, I hope it doesn't burn itself out like that. I do (also) fear (I don't really want to use the word here, and don't want the people that are tired of other shows constantly being compared against the show with the L-word title) that this show may experience the same thing that seems to have befallen that show, and also befell shows like Alias before, but hopefully it won't happen and hopefully this show can really keep up the level it's at now for quite a while.

If not, then it's all the more important to really get the most out of the show now (as long as I can really figure out what is happening as I go).


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

No issues with the video here... but during the HDTV feed here, during the entire conversation between the waitress and Hiro at the diner counter, I had no center audio. I could hear ambient sounds, I just couldn't hear the dialog at all. I wasn't sure at first if it was intentional or not, but then the scene changed to the radioactive dude, I could hear the echo, just not the actual dialog there as well.


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## mythica23 (Sep 12, 2006)

I just fear the cliffhanger sigh its sure to be something wicked...... 

I am already jonsing for next season if thats possible sigh .... fret fret....


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Oh, gosh, you don't think they'll end this run of new episodes with a cliffhanger that we'll have to wait 6 weeks for a resolution?!

The horror. _The horror!_


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

Who knew Midland/Odessa was such a hotbed of genetic activity?


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

choccy said:


> 6 Minutes in.. she says "I got this Japanese phrase book for my birthday about 6 months ago and I started poking through it last week."
> 
> So, Hiro went back 6 months. He probably even gave her the book


Ahh yes, I remember that now. So, if he went back 6 months, he's gonna have to wait 6 months to save her! And his poor buddy is stuck in normal time. Clearly he wasn't planning on coming back anytime soon if he's hanging out at her birthday!


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

choccy said:


> 6 Minutes in.. she says "I got this Japanese phrase book for my birthday about 6 months ago and I started poking through it last week."
> 
> So, Hiro went back 6 months. He probably even gave her the book


Unlikely. It's clear from the changed photo on the wall that Hiro went back in time and changed the timeline; he wasn't in the photo until after he went back in time. Whether he changed it enough to save Charlie (the waittress) is unclear.

[Edit: I wrote about an inconsistency, but I just reviewed the episode and noticed that I'd missed a couple lines of dialog that account for it. Oh, well....]

Another issue: Going in, I figured the episode title was a reference to the Doomsday Clock, which is currently set to 7 minutes to midnight. Perhaps it was that, too, but the watch on the hand of Chandra Suresh's killer in the flashback got broken at that time. The same watch later (story time; earlier in show time) appeared in the diner, and although it wasn't shown in Charlie's death scene, it seems pretty obvious that this is Sylar's watch and that he killed both Chandra and Charlie. FWIW, that watch made its first appearance seven minutes into my TiVo's recording of the episode -- but I padded the start time by one minute, so that's probably just a coincidence.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

My brain hurts from trying to figure out the time travel stuff.

Does anyone know what kind of format the show is doing? I'm thinking we'll be looking at reruns after next week's episode.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

What does it matter if his buddy is stuck in "normal time"? Hiro can come back seconds after he left regardless of how long he was away. The fact that he didn't just means (IMO) that he hasn't gotten enough fine control yet so he missed the mark.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

I did see a suggestion that the online graphic novel would continue during the breaks in the show.

Interstate 14 (as mentioned in the previous episode) must provide a shortcut between Vegas and New York via Odessa. 

Anyway, all the paintings and the Heroes Value Stamps seem to be coming together.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

madscientist said:


> What does it matter if his buddy is stuck in "normal time"? Hiro can come back seconds after he left regardless of how long he was away. The fact that he didn't just means (IMO) that he hasn't gotten enough fine control yet so he missed the mark.


He doesn't even have to try and come back.. he just has to hang out and have fun for 6 months, and then walk in the diner right on schedule. He'll catch up to Ando "in good time"


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## TiVaholic (Nov 29, 2000)

But if the waitress isn't dead, why will Ando still be there? Is Ando in an alternate timeline that Hiro can't get back to? Or when the change is made, will Ando warp to the new timeline?

Oh, and this week is going to be so long...waiting for the Wii on Sunday, and this Monday...oh man....


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

choccy said:


> 6 Minutes in.. she says "I got this Japanese phrase book for my birthday about 6 months ago and I started poking through it last week."
> 
> So, Hiro went back 6 months. He probably even gave her the book


If that were the case, one would think she'd say, "Hey! Aren't you the guy who gave me this book?"

Then again, they all probably look alike to her....


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Issac cleans up good, huh? I barely recognized him.

And we see additional layers of ambiguity with HRG. That will doubtless piss off the "He's evil! Gray doesn't have shades!" crowd.


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## loubol (Apr 16, 2003)

Episode was OK but I could use some more action. Maybe we should get some of the writers from 24 to work on this show and on Lost. Imagine 24 with superheroes! It wouldnt matter if they could get from one place to another in an hour, they can bend time!


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## loubol (Apr 16, 2003)

WinBear said:


> Who knew Midland/Odessa was such a hotbed of genetic activity?


Duh! Look at the football players that come out of there!


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## Michelle5150 (Nov 16, 2004)

"I'm Sweet!!"


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## DMHinCO (Dec 14, 2000)

Interesting scene from slomoing the previews for next week:

Mohindar standing next to


Spoiler



Mohindar



And the previews also suggest that loubol will get his wish for a little more action. Or violence anyway.


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## hyde76 (Jan 7, 2003)

I forgot to pad and my Tivo ended at 10 sharp. What happened in the last two minutes?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Ando has to be in the changed timeline or else Hiro wouldn't be in the picture. Maybe somehow Ando still remembers the old timeline though (not sure how that's the case?)


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Using Back To The Future rules, as soon as Hiro gets Charlie off of the path to come to the diner that day, everything will then change for everybody except Hiro and Charlie.

Hiro and Charlie will remember everything, and theoretically everybody else will not.

Probably something like Hiro teleports back to the diner, and nobody has seen Charlie for 6 months, because he's convinced her to run away. Hiro should know that the murders are of special people because Isaac will be murdered.

Now, I know this is probably not how they intended it, but Ando may not even know where Hiro is. If the above is true, and Hiro goes back and alters the timeline, the second Hiro dissapears, Ando will not remember why and where he went. I don't think anything afterwards shows Ando to have any memory of why/where Hiro went, except just the plain fact that Hiro is gone.

-smak-


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

choccy said:


> He doesn't even have to try and come back.. he just has to hang out and have fun for 6 months, and then walk in the diner right on schedule. He'll catch up to Ando "in good time"


He better time it well as to not walk back in the diner before he teleports away, or Paradox city 

-smak-


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

So who was the kid that Mohindar kept seeing?

I liked Memory Woman. Hope Hiro saves her.

If Hiro keeps changing the time line, who knows what the future will hold.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

DMHinCO said:


> Interesting scene from slomoing the previews for next week:
> 
> Mohindar standing next to
> 
> ...


We saw that in this episode too. When he was having that "dream" of him and his father talking before he took off to America.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said time travel makes my head hurt. Alternate timelines and such. I mean, it appeared like the waitress was still dead...I think I saw the police still there after Hiro left. And why did he say he had to go back a day? Wouldn't just a few hours have been good enough?



smak said:


> He better time it well as to not walk back in the diner before he teleports away, or Paradox city
> 
> -smak-


Timecop rules say same matter can't occupy same space at the same time. So he'd be okay as long as he didn't touch himself


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## arcadefreaque (Aug 31, 2006)

As long as some are discussing the 'rules of time travel', this one idea has bothered me about the whole story. Say that Hiro does manage to convince people to save the world from this explosion, then it couldn't happen. What I mean is, his whole journey is based upon going to the future and seeing the explosion, and then going back and wanting to prevent it. If the explosion never happens, then he'll never have the desire to go save anybody from something that never happened. And if he never sees the explosion and never goes to stop it, then nobody will be there to stop it, and it will then happen.. which will then cause the future jumping Hiro to see the explosion and go back to stop it.. which will stop it and cause the future jumping Hiro to not see it and not go back to stop it... which will allow it to happen.. which will......


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

Hiro only needs to go back to earlier that day and prevent her from going to work that day. That's what he said. Why is everyone saying he's going to go back 6 months? Because of the book she got?

Let's hope Hiro doesn't mess things up and not get back in time for the big homecoming event in Texas.


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

So, are we all under the assumption that the other person we saw in the diner was Syler? The guy definitely had some power, by being able to draw the coffee cup into his hand without moving. Are we to assume that he has the power to become invisible? This would explain how he could get to the back room and kill Charlie while she was opening the can.

Hiro could be just bouncing around in time until he learns to control his power.


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

RickStrobel said:


> Hiro only needs to go back to earlier that day and prevent her from going to work that day. That's what he said. Why is everyone saying he's going to go back 6 months? Because of the book she got?
> 
> Let's hope Hiro doesn't mess things up and not get back in time for the big homecoming event in Texas.


Because we saw a picture of Hiro and the waitress at waht was persumably her birthday party 6 months ago.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

RickStrobel said:


> Hiro only needs to go back to earlier that day and prevent her from going to work that day. That's what he said. Why is everyone saying he's going to go back 6 months? Because of the book she got?


I don't think anyone is suggesting that he intended to go back 6 months, but the fact that he was in the birthday photo, and she mentioned getting the book for her birthday 6 months ago, suggest that's how far he went back, intentional or not.


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

was this birthday photo in the previews for next week? my recorder cut off at 10 and i missed the end.. what were the previews?


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

robbhimself said:


> was this birthday photo in the previews for next week? my recorder cut off at 10 and i missed the end.. what were the previews?


This wasn't in the previews. It was basically the last shot of the show for this week. It was on the bulletin board in the diner.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

smak said:


> He better time it well as to not walk back in the diner before he teleports away, or Paradox city


It could be he's keeping away to avoid this sort of thing. If he doesn't remember the exact time he left, he might prefer to wait until he's sure he's left.

OTOH, they could replay the diner scene in the altered timeline in which a waittress other than Charlie takes the cops', Hiro's, and Ando's orders, then time-travelling Hiro pops in and convinces the other Hiro to go back in time and prevent Charlie from showing up that day. Or perhaps Hiro tells Charlie everything in the past and she refuses to not go to work, so time-travelling Hiro ends up hiding out in the kitchen in an attempt to save her. There are lots of ways they can play this.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

loubol said:


> Duh! Look at the football players that come out of there!


I think that is more "de-evolution" than evolution.


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## DMHinCO (Dec 14, 2000)

bro1ncos said:


> So, are we all under the assumption that the other person we saw in the diner was Syler? The guy definitely had some power, by being able to draw the coffee cup into his hand without moving.


I thought it was Juan Valdez.

I was surprised they introduced so many Indian characters in India for Mohindar. Fellow-professor guy, pretty girl with a top job at a genetics company, Mom, ubiquitous eleven year-old. Probably it was necessary to give him conflict about whether to come back to the US and pursue his father's work.

But does that suggest he'll hang out in India for a longer time or will he be back before the cliffhanger? He doesn't seem like the guy who ties it all together, but he is the voiceover guy so he could come in at the last moment to complete the final "rescue."

Maybe he'll come in and settle a dispute between two characters about which one lost in Rock Paper Scissors and now has to go into the radioactive, burning building to fight Sylar.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

RickStrobel said:


> Hiro only needs to go back to earlier that day and prevent her from going to work that day. That's what he said. Why is everyone saying he's going to go back 6 months? Because of the book she got?
> 
> Let's hope Hiro doesn't mess things up and not get back in time for the big homecoming event in Texas.


He only said he was going to go back a day. He told Ando that he just had to go to yesterday and stop her from coming to work. He then told him to count to five and he would be back. Ando counted and there was no Hiro. He then saw the picture of Hiro with the waitress on the bulliten board where she appeared to be celebrating her birthday. They looked pretty close, so it could even be that he went further back than six months ago...long enough to have formed a tight relationship with her in time for her birthday.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

TiVaholic said:


> But if the waitress isn't dead, why will Ando still be there? Is Ando in an alternate timeline that Hiro can't get back to? Or when the change is made, will Ando warp to the new timeline?
> 
> Oh, and this week is going to be so long...waiting for the Wii on Sunday, and this Monday...oh man....


This is why I hate time travel in TV shows. If he changed anything in the past, then the present shouldn't have happened. At the very least, the second he disappeared from the diner, if he was successful, the waitress would've been there.

Of course, there could be some artistic license there like when Claire woke up in the autopsy room at the hospital. The end of that show had Claire almost immediately healing after the branch was removed and then waking up. The next week, the scene was expanded to show the time-lapse. They could very well be doing that here.

Maybe next week, If Hiro were successful, you'll see him walking into the Diner right after Ando starts calling for him, and the waitress will be there and it never happened. Of course, if it never happened, then Ando wouldn't be there calling for Hiro. See why I hate time travel episodes?

I never even noticed Hiro appearing in the birthday photo. I'll have to check that out.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> Timecop rules say same matter can't occupy same space at the same time. So he'd be okay as long as he didn't touch himself


How did masturbation come into this conversation?


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

bro1ncos said:


> This wasn't in the previews. It was basically the last shot of the show for this week. It was on the bulletin board in the diner.


OK, then I'm excused. My recording cut off before then. Must pad it next time.


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

No talk of HRG yet? It's so interesting how he went from being the assumed villain to someone much more complex and closer to good than evil (even though the voice-over intros still refer to him as the "face of evil").

I find the writing to be a bit weak at times. Some things are written very well, but some story arcs are decidedly weak in the writing department. The dialog between Mohinder and some of his friends/colleagues/family is borderline cliche. But at the same time, the characters are compelling and the stories and plots are fun and interesting. I'd much rather have it weak sometimes, but fun and interesting, rather than impeccable all the time, but frustrating and arrogant (a certain popular show beginning with the letter "L").


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> Ando has to be in the changed timeline or else Hiro wouldn't be in the picture. Maybe somehow Ando still remembers the old timeline though (not sure how that's the case?)


There is no evidence Ando remembered the old time line. He was just standing there looking around the room, Hiro could have been anywhere in the building at that point.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> He only said he was going to go back a day. He told Ando that he just had to go to yesterday and stop her from coming to work. He then told him to count to five and he would be back. Ando counted and there was no Hiro. He then saw the picture of Hiro with the waitress on the bulliten board where she appeared to be celebrating her birthday. They looked pretty close, so it could even be that he went further back than six months ago...long enough to have formed a tight relationship with her in time for her birthday.


They started getting along pretty well in just a couple of hours in the diner to begin with, so it's still possible he hadn't been there that long before the birthday picture. I know he has funny expressions sometimes, but in the picture his facial expression seemed to indicate that he was uncomfortable, or didn't want his picture taken, or was in a hurry, or something.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

RickStrobel said:


> Hiro only needs to go back to earlier that day and prevent her from going to work that day. That's what he said. Why is everyone saying he's going to go back 6 months? Because of the book she got?


He was in the photo from 6 months ago, and he looked like he didn't just get there either.



> Let's hope Hiro doesn't mess things up and not get back in time for the big homecoming event in Texas.


Like I said earlier, all he has to do is hang out and he'll catch up. He'll be 6+ months older but he'll arrive right back in 'our' time by doing nothing.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

bobcarn said:


> No talk of HRG yet? It's so interesting how he went from being the assumed villain to someone much more complex and closer to good than evil (even though the voice-over intros still refer to him as the "face of evil").


Still not toally sure about him, but if we believe what he said, he's a good guy that has to resort to doing some unpleasant things.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

Great episode, seemed short 

I see all this talk on time travel, but it seems to me that you guys forget Hiro will remember everything from future an past and can use it to shape things.

For example if the following factors apply:

1) Two hiro's can exist at same time (which they have in past)
2) Whatever changes Hiro makes doesn't affect the direct timeline of Anders

Then Anders should remember everything. For example Hiro goes back 7 months talks to waitress, while Hiro and Anders are still in Japan. If he doesn't contact either one of them in the past then they would still be on there mission and be experiencing everything normally.

In this scenario Anders would remember everything that happened and be in diner, tho we see that hiro has changed timeline somewhat by picture inclusion.

Makes perfect sense to me


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

I think a lot of people had already assumed that HRG wasn't actually all that bad because they tried so hard to make him look evil.

So Eden's power is the power of persuasion. And I'm starting to think Mohinder just might have his own power.

And we know now that the double hash-mark tattoo on Sprague and Parkman were put there by HRG and "the Haitian." (Or do we?) But wasn't Parkman manifesting his ability _before_ they kidnapped him? Sloppy plotting.

I'm not even going to comment on Hiro's time travel to the past, because that stuff can never be resolved logically. The second he went back in time, everything should have changed instantaneously, with only Hiro knowing what happened. There may be multiple timelines branching out there, but we mere humans can only experience one.


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## Meathead (Feb 19, 2002)

Does NBC have a hatred of DVRs? This is not the first show they habitually let go long on the timeline. They almost seem notorious for it.

And if I pad Heroes by even one minute, one of the two shows I have set up to record afterwards will not be recorded. That is one flaw in the Tivo that I wish could be resolved. If I pad 3 minutes onto the end of one show, why can't it just start recording the next show 3 minutes in when that tuner is free again?

Luckily, the next show I record is S60, but since it is on the chopping block, how long will I be reassured that I will be recording the next show on NBC? I was screwed that week they moved Friday Night Lights to Monday night.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

DMHinCO said:


> I was surprised they introduced so many Indian characters in India for Mohindar. Fellow-professor guy, pretty girl with a top job at a genetics company


Pretty? She was beautiful!


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Meathead said:


> And if I pad Heroes by even one minute, one of the two shows I have set up to record afterwards will not be recorded. That is one flaw in the Tivo that I wish could be resolved. If I pad 3 minutes onto the end of one show, why can't it just start recording the next show 3 minutes in when that tuner is free again?


Err, it does. Has done for years (soft padding)


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

choccy said:


> Pretty? She was beautiful!


She certainly was. And she heads up a genetics lab? Naturally she's part of the "Watchers" group along with HRG.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

S60 has been picked up for the year. When ER goes over NBC makes sure the guide data shows the extra length but Heros is only showing as an hour.

I think the newest tivo software provides for soft padding but I'm not sure that feature is available on the DTivos.



Meathead said:


> Does NBC have a hatred of DVRs? This is not the first show they habitually let go long on the timeline. They almost seem notorious for it.
> 
> And if I pad Heroes by even one minute, one of the two shows I have set up to record afterwards will not be recorded. That is one flaw in the Tivo that I wish could be resolved. If I pad 3 minutes onto the end of one show, why can't it just start recording the next show 3 minutes in when that tuner is free again?
> 
> Luckily, the next show I record is S60, but since it is on the chopping block, how long will I be reassured that I will be recording the next show on NBC? I was screwed that week they moved Friday Night Lights to Monday night.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Oh.. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Father Suresh aka Erick Avari. We actually saw him, the actor, in this episode. This means the one book cover with another picture on it was wrong.. perhaps that scene was filmed earlier when someone else was set to play that part?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Meathead said:


> Does NBC have a hatred of DVRs? This is not the first show they habitually let go long on the timeline. They almost seem notorious for it.
> 
> And if I pad Heroes by even one minute, one of the two shows I have set up to record afterwards will not be recorded. That is one flaw in the Tivo that I wish could be resolved. If I pad 3 minutes onto the end of one show, why can't it just start recording the next show 3 minutes in when that tuner is free again?
> 
> Luckily, the next show I record is S60, but since it is on the chopping block, how long will I be reassured that I will be recording the next show on NBC? I was screwed that week they moved Friday Night Lights to Monday night.


First, S60 is no longer on the chopping block. It was picked up for a full season. Second, you must have a Series 1 Tivo, because Series 2 does exactly what you're talking about.

Back to the episode, everyone seems to assume that Hiro could have simply gone back a couple of hours, but Sylar had clearly found her and simply picked that day to kill her. Hiro has to go back far enough to keep her from revealing her powers so that Sylar never finds her.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Graymalkin said:


> ..
> And we know now that the double hash-mark tattoo on Sprague and Parkman were put there by HRG and "the Haitian." (Or do we?) But wasn't Parkman manifesting his ability _before_ they kidnapped him? Sloppy plotting.
> ...


I've been giving this some thought as well... Does HRG's encounter with them teach them that they have powers that they never knew they had, or does it help them _refine_ their powers? They made a pretty big point of having Parkman stress out in the bar when he could hear everyone's voice -- except The Haitian's -- so I don't think it's just sloppy plotting.

I was also wondering how, if they haven't manifested their powers at least once before, does HRG know about their existence? Are they putting out some vibe that is being tracked on that big map?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

bobcarn said:


> No talk of HRG yet? It's so interesting how he went from being the assumed villain to someone much more complex and closer to good than evil (even though the voice-over intros still refer to him as the "face of evil").


He was mentioned:



busyba said:


> And we see additional layers of ambiguity with HRG. That will doubtless piss off the "He's evil! Gray doesn't have shades!" crowd.


It's not that big of a surprise to me. While there's been peopel pretty adament that he is evil, he's shown nothing but love for Claire and you get the feeling that he'd do anything possible to keep his little girl safe.

But, oddly enough, it does seem to almost bring back the cop in a different timeline theory. A little girl was left behind because two of her special parents percieved him as a threat...what if back then HRG had another sidekick...and his name happened to by Sylar. Yeah, I know, it's still far-fetched. But yet we continue to not see a thing that ties the cop into the storyline with the other heroes.


----------



## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

HRG's behavior toward the Heroes is mysteriously inconsistent. They've shown that he knows about Sylar, Parkman, Sprague, and Petrelli Sr., but he didn't seem to know about Niki. Neither Parkman nor Sprague know about him -- they have no idea where those tats came from, although they now both know about the "Haitian." Yet HRG revealed himself to Petrelli Sr. (We can assume he revealed himself to Aaron because he's desperate for his help in saving Claire.)

Did Sylar know about Hiro? Or was he too focused on Charlie to notice?

Hiro right now seems to be an unknown factor. (Perhaps the fact that he's the only foreign hero might have something to do with it.) DL and Micah also appear to be unknown factors.


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Great show. Love this show. 

It is moving so fast, though. Like someone mentioned earlier, I hope it doesn't burn itself out.

So let's review all the "Heroes"

Isaac - Paints the future
Micah - Can fix broken phones with a touch
Matt - Read minds
Niki - Jeckel/Hyde
Hiro - Bends time and space
Claire - heals herself
Nathan - Flies
Peter - empath

These seem to be the main characters but now we have a few extra:

Radioactive Man 
Waitress with Super Memory
Pixie with possible powers of persuasion
Soccer ball kid does something with dreams?
Haitian - wipes memories

Am I missing anyone? This is a big cast!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Graymalkin said:


> Did Sylar know about Hiro? Or was he too focused on Charlie to notice?


Hiro didn't do anything while Sylar was there to indicate that he had any powers. He said he had a special power, but when Charlie asked what it was, he said it was to teach people Japanese in a short period of time. So as far as Sylar is concerned, that's just some silly Japanese tourist flirting with the waitress (unless Sylar has some ability to detect powers, which doesn't seem to be the case).


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> But, oddly enough, it does seem to almost bring back the cop in a different timeline theory. A little girl was left behind because two of her special parents perceived him as a threat...what if back then HRG had another sidekick...and his name happened to by Sylar. Yeah, I know, it's still far-fetched. But yet we continue to not see a thing that ties the cop into the storyline with the other heroes.


I don't think so. Both FBI Girl and HRG have mentioned Sylar's murder spree. HRG and the Haitian have shown up in both Parkman's storyline and the Niki-Petrelli-Aaron-Hiro storyline.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> But, oddly enough, it does seem to almost bring back the cop in a different timeline theory. A little girl was left behind because two of her special parents percieved him as a threat...what if back then HRG had another sidekick...and his name happened to by Sylar. Yeah, I know, it's still far-fetched. But yet we continue to not see a thing that ties the cop into the storyline with the other heroes.


Where are you getting this from? It's been proven that the cop is in the same timeline long ago. Why do people still bring this up?

Just because he hasn't been introduced to any other characters yet doesn't mean he's not on the same timeline.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Supfreak26 said:


> Am I missing anyone? This is a big cast!


You're missing DL, Niki's husband and Micah's father, who has the power to dematerialize.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Graymalkin said:


> You're missing DL, Niki's husband and Micah's father, who has the power to dematerialize.


Ah yes. Forgot about him.

I thought the shady guy in the corner of the diner was yet another Hero so it was a shock to me when he turned out to be Sylar. I really didn't expect that.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Supfreak26 said:


> Where are you getting this from? It's been proven that the cop is in the same timeline long ago. Why do people still bring this up?
> 
> Just because he hasn't been introduced to any other characters yet doesn't mean he's not on the same timeline.


People keep saying it's been "proven" but in what specific scene? Maybe if someone could actually point that out it could be dropped.

The theory comes from the fact that we've seen the cop rescue a little blonde girl whose parents were killed...hmm, sound familar? And we know HRG has been at this work for a while...at least sixteen years or so. So the fact that we've seen HRG interacting with the cop and the current heroes doesn't mean much. We went through a whole episode with Hiro and had no idea we were in an alternate timeline until the end of that show. All I'm saying is its a plausable storyline. Its just like any other theory that anyone throws out there. And unless you're a writer from the show, there's no need to sqaush other people's theories.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> Ah yes. Forgot about him.
> 
> I thought the shady guy in the corner of the diner was yet another Hero so it was a shock to me when he turned out to be Sylar. I really didn't expect that.


From that scene I got the impression that it was an older 35-50 year old white male, of course he was in shadows so it was hard to make out anything.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> People keep saying it's been "proven" but in what specific scene? Maybe if someone could actually point that out it could be dropped.
> 
> The theory comes from the fact that we've seen the cop rescue a little blonde girl whose parents were killed...hmm, sound familar? And we know HRG has been at this work for a while...at least sixteen years or so. So the fact that we've seen HRG interacting with the cop and the current heroes doesn't mean much. We went through a whole episode with Hiro and had no idea we were in an alternate timeline until the end of that show. All I'm saying is its a plausable storyline. Its just like any other theory that anyone throws out there. And unless you're a writer from the show, there's no need to sqaush other people's theories.


Whoa, calm down. 

It seems that you missed a whole thread from one or two episodes ago where it was discussed at length and even the person who originally came up with the theory agreed that it was no longer possible.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Whoa, calm down.
> 
> It seems that you missed a whole thread from one or two episodes ago where it was discussed at length and even the person who originally came up with the theory agreed that it was no longer possible.


Plus in this ep, I may have been mistaken, but I thought the truck that was burning in the background when the FBI chick was on the phone with mind reader dude, was shown earlier in the episode as a picture that the painter had painted... so the timeline is at least close enough for that picture to have been another "picture that told the future".


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

madscientist said:


> What does it matter if his buddy is stuck in "normal time"? Hiro can come back seconds after he left regardless of how long he was away. The fact that he didn't just means (IMO) that he hasn't gotten enough fine control yet so he missed the mark.


I think Hiro has a more personal reason for prolonging his presence in her past. I think Hiro's smitten by the waitress and is developing a romantic interest...seemed pretty obvious in the diner. So, he's back in her past now romancing her I think. Why would he want to leave and go back to our present when he can stay there for as long as necessary (or as long as he likes) and pop back when he needs to to return to our time. He's in her past and lost in love. Who pays attention to time when you're in love? It'll just give him even more motivation to keep Sylar from uncapping her head- and did anyone notice the irony of her using a can-opener on a large can of tomatoes and the technique Sylar must use to open the skull of his victims???

This show is really well written with lots of little things like that!


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

choccy said:


> Oh.. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Father Suresh aka Erick Avari. We actually saw him, the actor, in this episode. This means the one book cover with another picture on it was wrong.. perhaps that scene was filmed earlier when someone else was set to play that part?


Pilots are filmed well before they air. (if they even ever air). So, it's very possible and actor that played a minor roll (i.e. a picture on a book jacket) in a pilot became unavailable for future episodes. I don't see a problem here. It's really minor. It's still Chandra Suresh. It always was.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

bro1ncos said:


> So, are we all under the assumption that the other person we saw in the diner was Syler? The guy definitely had some power, by being able to draw the coffee cup into his hand without moving. Are we to assume that he has the power to become invisible? .


In a prior episode when Copman and Copwoman were chasing Sylar, he had the ability to move VERY VERY VERY fast, like a phantom...my guess is he just moved really fast into the back of the diner and popped the top of her head, just like she was doing to the can of tomatoes.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Bighouse said:


> ...and did anyone notice the irony of her using a can-opener on a large can of tomatoes and the technique Sylar must use to open the skull of his victims???
> 
> This show is really well written with lots of little things like that!


I noticed. Very creepy.

One thing I thought of regarding whether Sylar knew about Hiro -- and if he did, why didn't he open his brain...

Waitress had her head opened and brain removed awfully fast. I mean, one second, she's looking around for the origin of the obligatory creepy noises she's hearing and the next second we see the blood dripping.

Consider this -- is it possible that Sylar, like Peter, was "borrowing" Hiro's ability to stop time? He stopped time, opened her head, removed her brain, and then left. Maybe he knows about Hiro, but doesn't want to kill him yet because he was "borrowing" his powers. I mean, even on a good day, opening a skull and removing a brain would take more than a nanosecond, right? 

Again, just a theory. I know the prevailing theory is that Sylar acquires others' powers _by_ killing them, but I just thought I'd throw this out there.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

unicorngoddess said:


> People keep saying it's been "proven" but in what specific scene? Maybe if someone could actually point that out it could be dropped.
> 
> The theory comes from the fact that we've seen the cop rescue a little blonde girl whose parents were killed...hmm, sound familar? And we know HRG has been at this work for a while...at least sixteen years or so. So the fact that we've seen HRG interacting with the cop and the current heroes doesn't mean much. We went through a whole episode with Hiro and had no idea we were in an alternate timeline until the end of that show. All I'm saying is its a plausable storyline. Its just like any other theory that anyone throws out there. And unless you're a writer from the show, there's no need to sqaush other people's theories.


Chill dude.

This theory was squashed a few Heroes threads ago but it keeps getting brought up after each episode.

Even in this episode, HRG mentioned that what he does is "something" that helps others who are "special" and only rarely does something bad happen to those he helps. The last time somebody died under his care, it was Claire's mother.

Add in the fact that when the cop was kidnapped by HRG, it showed HRG and the Haitan and they looked EXACTLY like they do today. Same clothes, hair, weight, age, etc. Are you saying they kept the same exact look for the past 10 to 13 years?

Also, why would they continue the cop's story after he found the girl? What relevance would his story have to those in the current timeline?

I think you are looking too deep into what was a simple plot device to introduce the cop's powers and to get him working with the FBI girl to get to the radioactive man to get to whereever they go next.

This isn't L***.


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## tbone526 (Dec 2, 2004)

HRG seems to have access to information from the future. He was very specific stating that Sylar would kill Claire at 6pm (or whatever) the following night at the homecoming. Where did this info come from?

Also:



Spoiler



During the previews, I slo-mo'd some of the action and saw several apparent battles involving a cheerleader. However, the face appeared to be blurred out. More credence to the "whoops, saved the wrong cheerleader" idea?


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Supfreak26 said:


> Great show. Love this show.
> 
> Am I missing anyone? This is a big cast!


You forgot Sylar...


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## jeetkunedo (Jul 24, 2006)

Supfreak26 said:


> Add in the fact that when the cop was kidnapped by HRG, it showed HRG and the Haitan and they looked EXACTLY like they do today. Same clothes, hair, weight, age, etc. Are you saying they kept the same exact look for the past 10 to 13 years?


What convinced me was all the modern stuff. New cars, the cop talking on a RAZR (which is what, a year old?). Too bad, though, I kind of liked that theory.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> How did masturbation come into this conversation?


Have you seen Nikki?


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

ScottE22 said:


> I noticed. Very creepy.
> 
> Consider this -- is it possible that Sylar, like Peter, was "borrowing" Hiro's ability to stop time? He stopped time, opened her head, removed her brain, and then left. Maybe he knows about Hiro, but doesn't want to kill him yet because he was "borrowing" his powers. I mean, even on a good day, opening a skull and removing a brain would take more than a nanosecond, right?


Clever. Maybe...or maybe Sylar can just move so fast that it SEEMS like he can make time stand still. Everyone's actual powers are unique so far...so I don't think Sylar needs to have someone else's abilities. No one else seems to have "MOVE REALLY REALLY FAST" powers..though his moving the coffee mug in the diner clearly indicates some kind of Telekinetic power too. So, I think he's just a fast, strong telekinetic.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> It's not that big of a surprise to me. While there's been peopel pretty adament that he is evil, he's shown nothing but love for Claire and you get the feeling that he'd do anything possible to keep his little girl safe.


A person willing to do anything possible/necessary to keep someone safe is a very dangerous person, IMO.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DMHinCO said:


> I was surprised they introduced so many Indian characters in India


Were you expecting Belgians?


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## arcadefreaque (Aug 31, 2006)

jeetkunedo said:


> What convinced me was all the modern stuff. New cars, the cop talking on a RAZR (which is what, a year old?). Too bad, though, I kind of liked that theory.


Okay, how about - They save the cheerleader who is presently the little girl that the cop found in present time, take her 'back in time' where HRG adopts her and raises her so that she can use her powers to save the world in present time as the grown cheerleader 

Alright, that's not very likely, but maybe you can use that (or a similar theory) to keep enjoying part of the original theory that the little girl is Claire


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

tbone526 said:


> HRG seems to have access to information from the future. He was very specific stating that Sylar would kill Claire at 6pm (or whatever) the following night at the homecoming. Where did this info come from?


Issac's paintings. Since he's a part of "the cheerleader"'s life, he was able to recognize the context in the paintings.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Bighouse said:


> and did anyone notice the irony of her using a can-opener on a large can of tomatoes and the technique Sylar must use to open the skull of his victims???


I always assumed Sylar was an apprentice of The Bride


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

tbone526 said:


> HRG seems to have access to information from the future. He was very specific stating that Sylar would kill Claire at 6pm (or whatever) the following night at the homecoming. Where did this info come from?


The paintings and the information that Eden got from Peter, who got it from Hiro. He knows about the phrase, "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World." He's seen the painting with the Homecoming banner. He knows the Homecoming dance is tomorrow night. He's not stupid.


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## tbone526 (Dec 2, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> The paintings and the information that Eden got from Peter, who got it from Hiro. He knows about the phrase, "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World." He's seen the painting with the Homecoming banner. He knows the Homecoming dance is tomorrow night. He's not stupid.


But did the paintings document the exact time of the murder? My impression of the statement was that it sounded like someone knew it happened (as from a future timeline) and had filled him in on the details in order to prevent it from happening again.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

tbone526 said:


> But did the paintings document the exact time of the murder? My impression of the statement was that it sounded like someone knew it happened (as from a future timeline) and had filled him in on the details in order to prevent it from happening again.


 I can't recall an exact time being mentioned. I got the impression that Mr. Bennet learned of Claire's impending death from Issac's paintings.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

tbone526 said:


> But did the paintings document the exact time of the murder? My impression of the statement was that it sounded like someone knew it happened (as from a future timeline) and had filled him in on the details in order to prevent it from happening again.


I don't think he said the exact time, he just said "the night of the homecoming", which is an estimate that could easily be derived just from the paintings.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Supfreak26 said:


> Peter - empath


No... I'd say Peter - mimic, not empath.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> People keep saying it's been "proven" but in what specific scene? Maybe if someone could actually point that out it could be dropped.


OK, here you go.

Painter paints the future, right?

Painter has a picture of a bus burning. You see it at HRG's place at the start of this episode.

The picture of the bus burning was a picture of Ted (radioactive guy) escaping from the DHS dudes.

Ted escaped *after* he was interviewed by Matt (mind reading guy) and FBI girl.

The escape happened after the opening scene of the show, not before it, therefore it's impossible for Matt and FBI girl to be in the past.


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## arcadefreaque (Aug 31, 2006)

Bighouse said:


> ... So, I think he's just a fast, strong telekinetic.


You forgot - self-healing (remember he got shot, recoverd and then jumped/flew away)



Sirius Black said:


> A person willing to do anything possible/necessary to keep someone safe is a very dangerous person, IMO.


Then there are MANY MANY very dangerous persons in this world.. called parents.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Whoa, calm down.
> 
> It seems that you missed a whole thread from one or two episodes ago where it was discussed at length and even the person who originally came up with the theory agreed that it was no longer possible.


I'm not upset. I just don't see what pleasures people get out of squashing other peoples theories like it means nothing. I even said it was far fetched. I was just pointing out a further similarity in the two stories. I've read every thread about the show and if you go back to last week or the week before that you'll even see a post of mine the contradicts the theory. But there does seem to be a weird coincidence between the girl the cop rescued and Claire's own life story.


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## we4snells (Oct 30, 2006)

My husband believes that Sylar's power may have something to do with metal. His cup at the diner was metal and not glass. Maybe he has some sort of magnetic power.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

choccy said:


> No... I'd say Peter - mimic, not empath.


Yep I agree, it seems he mimics and he was mimic'n the power of his girlfriend (empath?)


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

we4snells said:


> My husband believes that Sylar's power may have something to do with metal. His cup at the diner was metal and not glass. Maybe he has some sort of magnetic power.


I think it was been guessed at this point that Sylar (Patient 0) has most if not all of the powers of the others.

We have seen him heal, fly, move stuff telekinetically (the cup and holding people in air to drive spike into them at crime scene), able to adjust temperature (freezing)..

I think there are a few more I'm missing but he appears to have multiples powers and not just one single power.

Most of these abilities can related to what they call Psionics, the ability of the mind to do extrodinary things. Telepathy is a form, Psychometabolism for healing and shape changing, Psychoportation for moving back and forth in time and space, Telekinesis for moving objects.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

busyba said:


> I don't think he said the exact time, he just said "the night of the homecoming", which is an estimate that could easily be derived just from the paintings.


He did say, "tomorrow night," but that could easily have been inferred by him from the phrase, "Save the Cheerleader, . . ." and the paintings depicting something happening at the Homecoming Dance, which he knows the time, date, and place of.


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

why didn't isaac tell them to snag peter since peter is able to paint the future whenever he was around? that way he could stay clean which he was finally happy he was able to do.. and i think hrg's girl (i forget her name) may have more of a siren or sucubus power.. she just didn't turn it on enough to keep suresh in town..


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> Pilots are filmed well before they air. (if they even ever air). So, it's very possible and actor that played a minor roll (i.e. a picture on a book jacket) in a pilot became unavailable for future episodes. I don't see a problem here. It's really minor. It's still Chandra Suresh. It always was.


The confusion comes from the fact that the first time we saw the photo on the book jacket, it was Erick Avari. The second time we saw it it was another actor in a turban, then back to Erick Avari for the third look at the book and the actual flashbacks. I'm thinking the second shot we saw was the original actor hired for the part and they forgot to switch shots on that one episode after he was recast. When making changes like that after an episode has been edited, it's easy for stuff like that to slip through the cracks.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

arcadefreaque said:


> Then there are MANY MANY very dangerous persons in this world.. called parents.


HRG has shown he is willing to lie (to his daughter), manipulate, coerce, kidnap, inject with heroin, and "erase" in order to "protect" his daugher. Would you do that? Who knows what else he has done in the name of "protection".


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> When making changes like that after an episode has been edited, it's easy for stuff like that to slip through the cracks.


We'll let George Lucas fix it later.

Sorry, just watched all 6 Star Wars movies in HD.


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## arcadefreaque (Aug 31, 2006)

Sirius Black said:


> HRG has shown he is willing to lie (to his daughter), manipulate, coerce, kidnap, inject with heroin, and "erase" in order to "protect" his daugher. Would you do that? Who knows what else he has done in the name of "protection".


Sure would. If I really believed that my children were going to die or seriously harmed, I'd do all of that on the same day, run over a little old lady with my car on my way home, and sleep well that night. Heck, I've said it before - if they come up with a way to make my blind son able to see, I'd do _whatever_ it took to make sure he could see. A little lying, coersion, kidnapping, and heroine would be a no-brainer. If someone told me that's all it took, I'd be like "You're kidding, right? That's _ALL_ I have to do!?!? Sweet!!" (And no, I'm not just "saying that". I REALLY believe that I would have no problem making that decision.)


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I don't know know whether this counts as a spoiler, but imdb credits Sean Bean as "Paul Sylar" in two episodes (so far) of Heroes.

It doesn't really have anything to do with the episode per se, but I think it's interesting


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

arcadefreaque said:


> Sure would. If I really believed that my children were going to die or seriously harmed, I'd do all of that on the same day, run over a little old lady with my car on my way home, and sleep well that night. Heck, I've said it before - if they come up with a way to make my blind son able to see, I'd do _whatever_ it took to make sure he could see. A little lying, coersion, kidnapping, and heroine would be a no-brainer. If someone told me that's all it took, I'd be like "You're kidding, right? That's _ALL_ I have to do!?!? Sweet!!" (And no, I'm not just "saying that". I REALLY believe that I would have no problem making that decision.)


+1 on that! If you told me all I had to do was shoot up a heroin addict with more heorin...I'd be all like, give me the needle. If all I had to do was round up a group of people and let my memory erasing friend have their way with him, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm sorry, but if I had a vision from the future of someone coming after my child, I'd be hovering over her with an ax just waiting to chop off the head of the first person that threatens her. It may sound brutal, but parents literally WILL do anything to save their kids. Well, i guess I should say MOST parents.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Shakhari said:


> I don't know know whether this counts as a spoiler, but imdb credits xxxx as "Paul Sylar" in two episodes (so far) of Heroes.
> 
> It doesn't really have anything to do with the episode per se, but I think it's interesting


Yes, that is indeed a spoiler.


----------



## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Actually, TV Guide says it's a "foiler" -- a deliberate red herring planted by the show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Graymalkin said:


> Actually, TV Guide says it's a "foiler" -- a deliberate red herring planted by the show.


Yes, I have also read that it's not true. In fact, I think I heard them talking about how it was fake on the TV Guide Weekly Podcast.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

It does appear, though, that Sylar is NOT Jessica (Niki's dangerous doppleganger), because that was a man, baby!


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

robbhimself said:


> why didn't isaac tell them to snag peter since peter is able to paint the future whenever he was around? that way he could stay clean which he was finally happy he was able to do.. and i think hrg's girl (i forget her name) may have more of a siren or sucubus power.. she just didn't turn it on enough to keep suresh in town..


I think Suresh needed to go back home. After all, he did just discover that file in his father's desk, and the boy, which seems pretty important. I predict he will be back in NY either this coming week, or if this week is a whole lotta Odessa, TX, then the week after.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

ScottE22 said:


> Waitress had her head opened and brain removed awfully fast. I mean, one second, she's looking around for the origin of the obligatory creepy noises she's hearing and the next second we see the blood dripping.


Yes, it made me wonder if it was done with something like a katana...
(Just to be clear: I don't think that Future Hiro is Sylar. It just struck me as an interesting parallel).


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

danterner said:


> Yes, it made me wonder if it was done with something like a katana...
> (Just to be clear: I don't think that Future Hiro is Sylar. It just struck me as an interesting parallel).


Sylar has demonstrated enough telekinetic ability to have been able to rip/cut the top of someone's head off without the need for any tools/weapons.


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## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

we4snells said:


> My husband believes that Sylar's power may have something to do with metal. His cup at the diner was metal and not glass. Maybe he has some sort of magnetic power.


I believe that Sylar's power is the ability to steal other heroes' powers. That is why he is stalking and killing other heroes. He is amassing lots of useful skillz!


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

According to tvguide.com, we get at least two more new episodes -- one on 11/20 and one on 11/27. Who knows what December will bring... I'm already on LOST withdrawal -- I don't know what I'll do when they take Heroes away for the holidays...


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## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

choccy said:


> Oh.. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Father Suresh aka Erick Avari. We actually saw him, the actor, in this episode. This means the one book cover with another picture on it was wrong.. perhaps that scene was filmed earlier when someone else was set to play that part?


In that one glimpse we got where the actor wasn't Erick Avari, was that picture from the back cover of the same book? I'm willing to give them a little leeway there in that every single picture of Father Suresh doesn't have to be a modern picture of Erick Avari.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

bobcarn said:


> In that one glimpse we got where the actor wasn't Erick Avari, was that picture from the back cover of the same book?


Yes.. one shot of the book in one episode (the second?) was of a completely different person.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

glumlord said:


> I see all this talk on time travel, but it seems to me that you guys forget Hiro will remember everything from future an past and can use it to shape things.
> 
> For example if the following factors apply:
> 
> ...


I assume you mean _Ando,_ Hiro's friend; AFAIK, no character named Anders has been introduced so far. In any event, Ando might remember everything up to a point, but if Hiro is successful, Ando wouldn't remember the murder of Charlie, since it wouldn't have occurred. The episode ended soon enough after Hiro left that you can argue that everything we saw afterwards, including Ando counting to five and pacing around, occurred in the altered timeline. Or not; we'll just have to wait and see which of the bazillion sets of time-travel rules the writers are using....


----------



## bobcarn (Nov 18, 2001)

Sirius Black said:


> HRG has shown he is willing to lie (to his daughter), manipulate, coerce, kidnap, inject with heroin, and "erase" in order to "protect" his daugher. Would you do that? Who knows what else he has done in the name of "protection".


I'm pretty sure we can agree that HRG isn't a really really good, righteous, above-reproach kind of guy. But like I said in other threads, he's a positive saint when compared to what Nikki's alter-ego is like. He's not good, but he's not "the face of evil".

At least, not yet.

Oh, in answer to your question. If I had a daughter, and her life depended on it, I wouldn't mind giving Isaac the heroin. He's a heroin addict in a controlled environment. It's not like he's going to overdose. If it's between saving an innocent girl's life, or postponing his addiction treatment one day, I'd go with saving the girl's life. And while I don't condone the kidnapping, if the people's memory are wiped for only a day or two, it's hardly a traumatic experience for them. The cop still wasn't sure anything happened to him until he started talking to radioactive guy.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Graymalkin said:


> And we know now that the double hash-mark tattoo on Sprague and Parkman were put there by HRG and "the Haitian." (Or do we?) But wasn't Parkman manifesting his ability _before_ they kidnapped him? Sloppy plotting.


Maybe, but it's still salvageable. Suppose HRG has some way to detect people with special abilities soon after they begin manifesting. In that case, HRG might have kidnapped Sprague so soon after he began emitting radiation bursts that he didn't realize he was doing anything, and he might easily err on assigning causality.


----------



## Squeege96 (May 1, 2006)

Great episode. I am really caught up in this show. Did anyone catch the name on the folder that Mohinder found? "SANJOG, Iyer"

Does that mean that the young man in Mohinder's visions was young Mohinder? At first, I thought it was where the name "Sylar" came from.

And for those of us who missed the very last minute with Hiro's picture, you can watch the entire episode at http://www.nbc.com/Video/rewind/full_episodes/?show=heroes


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Squeege96 said:


> And for those of us who missed the very last minute with Hiro's picture, you can watch the entire episode at http://www.nbc.com/Video/rewind/full_episodes/?show=heroes


Doesn't appear to work in Firefox 2 though.. booo hisss.


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

we4snells said:


> My husband believes that Sylar's power may have something to do with metal. His cup at the diner was metal and not glass. Maybe he has some sort of magnetic power.


I just went back and checked - the cup wasn't metal


----------



## Squeege96 (May 1, 2006)

choccy said:


> I just went back and checked - the cup wasn't metal


I think you are right. It looks to me like Sylar has some serious telekenetic abilities, which would explain the household objects impaling people, and why the FBI chick couldn't stop herself from putting her gun to her head.

I still like the idea that Sylar's motivation to kill the 'special' people is to steal their powers.


----------



## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Squeege96 said:


> I still like the idea that Sylar's motivation to kill the 'special' people is to steal their powers.


I'm not convinced he doesn't have all the powers already (example: he was shot, and got back up.. seems he already has Claire's power and she isn't dead yet. Example 2: He flew away.. Nathan isn't dead either), and that he's just killing people because they're a threat to him.. or perhaps he thinks he is some kind of horrible genetic mutation/experiment that must not be allowed to continue, and plans to kill off everyone who came after him and them himself?


----------



## Squeege96 (May 1, 2006)

choccy said:


> I'm not convinced he doesn't have all the powers already (example: he was shot, and got back up.. seems he already has Claire's power and she isn't dead yet. Example 2: He flew away.. Nathan isn't dead either), and that he's just killing people because they're a threat to him.. or perhaps he thinks he is some kind of horrible genetic mutation/experiment that must not be allowed to continue, and plans to kill off everyone who came after him and them himself?


I'm with you. I guess I just like the idea that he needs to be in "contact" inorder to gain an ability. What if Sylar is the Peter Petrelli of the future? Or was Poppa Petrelli? (I know its been revealed that he committed suicide, I am just theorizing).

Can't wait for next week. :up:


----------



## bnoe (Dec 21, 2001)

Squeege96 said:


> I still like the idea that Sylar's motivation to kill the 'special' people is to steal their powers.


Sylar could have to kill people to steal their powers and already killed a future Hiro and has just gone back to important times when other Heros were more vulnerable.

Of course that brings up all kinds of timeline issues that are sure to make people's heads hurt.


----------



## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

srs5694 said:


> I assume you mean _Ando,_ Hiro's friend; AFAIK, no character named Anders has been introduced so far. In any event, Ando might remember everything up to a point, but if Hiro is successful, Ando wouldn't remember the murder of Charlie, since it wouldn't have occurred. The episode ended soon enough after Hiro left that you can argue that everything we saw afterwards, including Ando counting to five and pacing around, occurred in the altered timeline. Or not; we'll just have to wait and see which of the bazillion sets of time-travel rules the writers are using....


Yeah I meant Ando 

And your absolutely correct on him remembering Charlie. I hadn't considered what your saying as a possibility


----------



## DMHinCO (Dec 14, 2000)

busyba said:


> Were you expecting Belgians?


Danish, actually. 

In India, was the young boy a real boy with the power to show Mohindar the past? Instead, was Mohindar exhibiting a power to "remember" a scene he did not initially witness? In that case, was the kid a part of Mohindar's dream and/or a young Mohindar? It seems like either Mohindar or the kid has a power, but it is ambiguous.

Dark shadowy coffee-drinker exhibited the powers (and perhaps the build?) of DL more than any other character introduced thus far. Not likely, but possible.

I do like the fact that we are left guessing whether it is Sylar, someone else with powers who has been introduced, or some new person with powers. Naturally, the signs seem to point to Sylar.

Next week will mark the first Homecoming dance I'd be excited to attend.


----------



## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

choccy said:


> He was in the photo from 6 months ago, and he looked like he didn't just get there either.
> 
> Like I said earlier, all he has to do is hang out and he'll catch up. He'll be 6+ months older but he'll arrive right back in 'our' time by doing nothing.


Do you WATCH time travel movies? That's not how it works!


----------



## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

arcadefreaque said:


> You forgot - self-healing (remember he got shot, recoverd and then jumped/flew away)


There was a subthread about this in the discussion for that episode. In brief, it's unknown how Sylar got away from being shot _at_ without any _obvious_ injury. Claire-style healing is just one possibility. There are lots of others, such as that he projects a force field that makes bullets non-lethal; that he was wearing a bullet-proof vest (boring); that Parkman is a lousy shot and actually missed Sylar; that Parkman hit Sylar in the leg or some other non-lethal area; etc. A similarly-long list of possibilities for how he got away is possible, since they didn't show it clearly on-screen.


----------



## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

we4snells said:


> My husband believes that Sylar's power may have something to do with metal. His cup at the diner was metal and not glass. Maybe he has some sort of magnetic power.


I don't think his cup was metal. I reviewed the scene, and although the cup wasn't shown all that clearly, it looked like an ordinary painted ceramic coffee cup to me.


----------



## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

bobcarn said:


> I find the writing to be a bit weak at times. Some things are written very well, but some story arcs are decidedly weak in the writing department. The dialog between Mohinder and some of his friends/colleagues/family is borderline cliche. But at the same time, the characters are compelling and the stories and plots are fun and interesting. I'd much rather have it weak sometimes, but fun and interesting, rather than impeccable all the time, but frustrating and arrogant (a certain popular show beginning with the letter "L").


I've become a lot more accepting of this becuase I found out that 'cliche' is so very normal. In a way, it adds a scope of normalicy to it all instead of everyone ignoring it or running around in shock behind it, and in the end its what people would actually say.


----------



## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> We'll let George Lucas fix it later.
> 
> Sorry, just watched all 6 Star Wars movies in HD.


Wha??! They're out in HD? Which format? PLEEEEAAAASE say HD-DVD.


----------



## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

choccy said:


> Sylar has demonstrated enough telekinetic ability to have been able to rip/cut the top of someone's head off without the need for any tools/weapons.


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

Squeege96 said:


> Great episode. I am really caught up in this show. Did anyone catch the name on the folder that Mohinder found? "SANJOG, Iyer"
> 
> Does that mean that the young man in Mohinder's visions was young Mohinder? At first, I thought it was where the name "Sylar" came from.


I don't see any great similarity to either Mohinder or Sylar. It looks to me like he's just a kid with another type of power -- call it the Pensieve Power, if you will, after the magical device from the Harry Potter books. Although I guess it goes beyond that, if he was able to show Mohinder events that neither person witnessed.


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## slydog75 (Jul 8, 2004)

DMHinCO said:


> Danish, actually.
> 
> In India, was the young boy a real boy with the power to show Mohindar the past? Instead, was Mohindar exhibiting a power to "remember" a scene he did not initially witness? In that case, was the kid a part of Mohindar's dream and/or a young Mohindar? It seems like either Mohindar or the kid has a power, but it is ambiguous.
> 
> ...


I think the kid WAS Mohindir. Or maybe his dead sister (couldn't tell 100% the sex of the kid).


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Here's what I think happens with Hiro.

He goes back in time. At least 6 months. He becomes friends with Charlie. Helives at a normal rate for those 6 months. He learns English. Maybe he buys himself a sword.

Maybe he convinces Charlie not to exhibit her powers, as someone else suggested, to stay under Sylar's radar. Or maybe he just convinces her not to go to work that day, adjust her schedule, whatever.

Hiro and Ando arrive in the new, altered timeline. Have lunch. Time stops. For Hiro-with-Ando it is much like it was for Peter Patrelli on the subway. Everything stops and he (Hiro-with-Ando) didn't do it. In walks sword-carrying Hiro. He explains the situation to Hiro-with-Ando.

The part I can't figure out then is, where does the new-timeline Hiro-with-Ando go? There are two Hiros. Can they merge somehow? Will that be part of their power? Otherwise whenever Hiro jumps back in time and alters the timeline, there are going to be duplicate Hiros.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm thinking that Charlie's murder is what brings Officer Parkman and the FBI chick to Odessa, and gets them there in time for the big situation in next week's episode. However, that would mean that Hiro's jumping back in time didn't immediately fix Charlie's death. So if Hiro is successful in saving her, I'm not sure how/if Parkman and FBI chick make it to Odessa.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

choccy said:


> I'm not convinced he doesn't have all the powers already (example: he was shot, and got back up.. seems he already has Claire's power and she isn't dead yet. Example 2: He flew away.. Nathan isn't dead either), and that he's just killing people because they're a threat to him.. or perhaps he thinks he is some kind of horrible genetic mutation/experiment that must not be allowed to continue, and plans to kill off everyone who came after him and them himself?


From this episode, we know that he can draw a coffee cup into his hand from a few inches away and he seems to be able to open peoples' skulls so quickly they don't have time to react. From an earlier episode, it seems that he can freeze people and has some sort of telekinetic or possibly mind-control powers. (The simplest explanation is telekinesis, since that explains the coffee cup and perhaps the head-opening abilities.) It's very unclear what happened when he was shot _at_ and got away; presumably one or more powers were involved, but I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions beyond that. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, simple (albeit powerful) telekinesis _can_ explain everything we've seen of Sylar's abilities except for the frozen corpse -- you'd just need to suppose that he was able to telekinetically deflect the bullets (partially or completely) and use telekinesis on himself to help get away. This last isn't a conclusion, though; it's just one of many possibilities, as I wrote in an earlier post.

As to his motivations, we do have a hint in the form of Sylar's message that Mohinder and Eden found on Chandra Suresh's answering machine. In that message, Sylar referred to his awakened appetite (or words to that effect), so it seems that Sylar's motivations are more primal than intellectual.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

srs5694 said:


> I don't think his cup was metal. I reviewed the scene, and although the cup wasn't shown all that clearly, it looked like an ordinary *painted ceramic coffee cup* to me.


Lead paint?


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

Spoiler



Sylar is cast and hes not anyone we have met or the dude on IMDB.



The "wrong" cheerleader thing is simple.

They need to save Claire. However her dumb friend is going to get hurt. The one who took the credit. Her father says "Won't that be a smack in Jessies face" or something to that like when Claire gets the paper. One can see that as a foreshadowing. That other chick is the one who rescued the dude from the fire, or so everything thinks. That gives claire some buffer.

It could be that Sylar just listens for 'strange' people and then meets them and kills them later. The waitress wasen't exactly hiding her freakish memory.

Also, Niki had turned back into Niki when HRG got there. They may not be able to sense her power when its hidden in her other body. I personally thought that HRG was some type of 'finder' in the start, the way he got in suresh's cab and stuff

This is just the save the cheerleader part. I think the cops part is going to be helping the second major arc of our story which is stopping radioactive man. Save the cheerleader. We do that. Now Save the world. Once we have her and shes not dead, brain eatten and etc, we can move foward with our world saving and stop radioactive man from exploding in NY and taking the atmopshere out with him.

Maybe radioactive man kills sylar or attemps to to explode. Instead of handing us two seprate stories they are working on the second half of the plan as well as the first. Everyone will meet up witht he cop in good time.

Plus they are introducing all sorts of stuff. Cop and radioactive blaming HRG. Clairs mom dying cuz of HRG. HRG giving Issac drugs again. Suresh daddy popping up in flash backs that mohinder is somehow reading. Mohinders dead sister being special. They are flowing it along and building the entire story nicely IMO. Niki and DL getting back together or not. So far the Niki/DL/Micha storyline isen't even running with ether of the others, even thou they have been cross introduced so I belive they too are charaters for the end.



Spoiler



This season was created with a definate start and end. Next season has a diffrent major villian


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

slydog75 said:


> Wha??! They're out in HD? Which format? PLEEEEAAAASE say HD-DVD.


AFIK, to see them in HD, you had to watch them on Showtime HD (or was it Cinemax HD). I don't think they are available in a hi. def. DVD format. (yet)


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

It was a marathon on Cinemax-HD this weekend... Of course, DirecTV refuses to carry that HD channel...


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

choccy said:


> Doesn't appear to work in Firefox 2 though.. booo hisss.


Works for me in Firefox 2...


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

My guess is that Sylar would never know about Hiro because it's impossible to see Hiro doing what he does. 

If Sylar somehow can detect powers being used, he shouldn't be able to detect Hiro at all, since his powers are never used in real time.

That theory would also not let him detect Peter unless he's around another person with abilities, or Niki in her normal state.

I don't think Sylar has mimicing powers, everything he's done can pretty much be explained away by telekenisis. The bullets probably never hit him. He can fly, he can move quickly and can move objects. Just think Jean Grey, she can do all that.

She can also read minds, and maybe Sylar uses that ability as sort of a Cerebro to search out for other powers.

You got me on the freezing though.

-smak-


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

Quick question, the captioning was messed up in HD last night, who was the guy that the mindreader cop was interviewing, the guy who made the water boil in the glass?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Gregor said:


> Quick question, the captioning was messed up in HD last night, who was the guy that the mindreader cop was interviewing, the guy who made the water boil in the glass?


That was the "nuclear guy" from last week,
the one that burned some college professor to a crisp and gave his wife cancer,
the wife that died at the end of last weeks ep and who's final thoughts were read by mind-reading-cop and told to nuclear guy.

phox


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

slydog75 said:


> I think the kid WAS Mohindir. Or maybe his dead sister (couldn't tell 100% the sex of the kid).


It's a boy, although I agree, it's not immediately obvious.


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

Wow - I think I've spent as much time in this thread as I did watching the episode!

Why is Claire's dad called HRG? Is that initials for a longer name? I know of lot's of people who's names are two initials but never heard of three.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

horned rimmed glasses


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

choccy said:


> There is no evidence Ando remembered the old time line. He was just standing there looking around the room, Hiro could have been anywhere in the building at that point.


I'm probably smeeking here, but he obviously remembered the old timeline becuase he started counting like Hiro told him to.


----------



## gtarent (Oct 10, 2002)

Graymalkin said:


> HRG's behavior toward the Heroes is mysteriously inconsistent. They've shown that he knows about Sylar, Parkman, Sprague, and Petrelli Sr., but he didn't seem to know about Niki. Neither Parkman nor Sprague know about him -- they have no idea where those tats came from, although they now both know about the "Haitian." Yet HRG revealed himself to Petrelli Sr. (We can assume he revealed himself to Aaron because he's desperate for his help in saving Claire.)


He did not expect Petrelli to escape before being "wiped". He can reveal as much as he wants to Aaron, he always has the ability to unreveal what he doesn't want known.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Shakhari said:


> I don't know know whether this counts as a spoiler, but imdb credits
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


A tip: if you THINK something is a spoiler, then SPOILERIZE it.  I don't care if this is real or not, I have deliberately avoided it.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> I'm probably smeeking here, but he obviously remembered the old timeline becuase he started counting like Hiro told him to.


That's easy to answer though - Hiro didn't change history immediately.. it took at least 5 seconds for the wave of change to make it 6 months through time


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

gtarent said:


> Graymalkin said:
> 
> 
> > HRG's behavior toward the Heroes is mysteriously inconsistent. They've shown that he knows about Sylar, Parkman, Sprague, and Petrelli Sr., but he didn't seem to know about Niki. Neither Parkman nor Sprague know about him -- they have no idea where those tats came from, although they now both know about the "Haitian." Yet HRG revealed himself to Petrelli Sr. (We can assume he revealed himself to Aaron because he's desperate for his help in saving Claire.)
> ...


Who's Aaron? Or are you talking about Isaac?


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Aaron... Isaac... all them Old Testament guys look the same to me.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

RickStrobel said:


> I know of lot's of people who's names are two initials but never heard of three.


Never heard of JFK? Or LBJ? FDR?


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

getreal said:


> Never heard of JFK? Or LBJ? FDR?


Nope never heard of those people. I have heard of John F. Kennedy for example. I know that he is often referred by the nickname JFK. But his NAME was not JFK.

So, I guess we just call him HRG because he has funny glasses and no one knows the character's name.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

RickStrobel said:


> Nope never heard of those people. I have heard of John F. Kennedy for example. I know that he is often referred by the nickname JFK. But his NAME was not JFK.
> 
> So, I guess we just call him HRG because he has funny glasses and no one knows the character's name.


We know his name but he is credited as HRG in the show and on IMDB.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

slydog75 said:


> I think the kid WAS Mohindir. Or maybe his dead sister (couldn't tell 100% the sex of the kid).


When I saw the kid I kept thinking it was Mohindir's father as a boy. Since the father died before they could resolve their issues, they can now have a "Field of Dreams" moment.

Of course now that I've seen the name on the kid's folder, I'm thinking that I am wrong.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> We'll let George Lucas fix it later.
> 
> Sorry, just watched all 6 Star Wars movies in HD.


Hopefully by then they'll decide if it's "The Voice of Shenkar" or "The Voice of Shankar."


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

RickStrobel said:


> Nope never heard of those people. I have heard of John F. Kennedy for example. I know that he is often referred by the nickname JFK. But his NAME was not JFK.
> 
> So, I guess we just call him HRG because he has funny glasses and no one knows the character's name.


Wow, anal...

His name is Mr. Bennet.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Mohinder's mystery past woman is Mira Shenoy on Heroes, or actress Kavi Ladnier:










That is a beautiful woman


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

slydog75 said:


> I think the kid WAS Mohindir. Or maybe his dead sister (couldn't tell 100% the sex of the kid).


The child in Mohindir's dreams could not have been his sister. Whether or not some posters had trouble figuring out his gender [I thought it was a boy right away] male or female, the child was too old. IIRC Mohindir's mother said the daughter died at 5 years old. This boy was much older than 5... 10-ish maybe.

At first, I also thought it might be Mohindir - inner child as guiding force, and all that. The name on the folder indicated otherwise, _unless_...

Mohindir's mother isn't telling the _whole_ truth. The existence of the folder indicates that Dr. S was obviously studying this child. Perhaps Mohindir, like Claire, was also adopted because he was "special" and they changed his name when he became part of the family. Just a thought.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

avery said:


> Mohindir's mother isn't telling the _whole_ truth. The existence of the folder indicates that Dr. S was obviously studying this child. Perhaps Mohindir, like Claire, was also adopted because he was "special" and they changed his name when he became part of the family. Just a thought.


I like it.


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

audioscience said:


> Wow, anal...
> 
> His name is Mr. Bennet.


Anal? 

I simply asked for the character's name and commented that it seemed unusual that a name would be three initials as I've never heard of that. Then someone commented that of course there are people like FDR, JFK and LBJ like I'd been living under a rock. No, I've heard those *nicknames* before.

It would have been a lot easier if someone simply said he's officially referred to as HRG but the character's name is Mr. Bennet.

jeez...


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

A quick, random, inconsequential thing:
- They really like to re-write history on this show. IIRC when Parkman first heard his wife's thoughts about her affair, she thought something like "oh no. He knows.". But then at the very beginning of this episode they showed the same scene but now he heard her think "He knows _about the affair_".

Did I just misremember this, or did they just change it for the benefit of the 'previously scenes'?

It's really no big deal to me, but I found it curious...


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Time Travel isn't THAT confusing. Lets look at it in two sections

*Travel forward*

This is the easy one. You leave the present and appear somewhere in the future. It is as if you disappear from the present and appear later without having aged (Like in the movie The Flight of the Navigator). You can jump back to any point in between your future location and the present that you left without any problems.

*Travel Backwards*

As soon as you travel back in time from the present you introduce a problem. I believe you would create an infinite loop of you. Basically, you from the present, call it Y1, goes back 5 minutes. Y1 will be there but Y2 will also be there. Assuming nothing changes, in five minutes Y2 would leave the present and jump back five minutes where Y1 and Y2 were at. This would create a Y3 and this cycle would continue. Each Y in the series would be 5 minutes older than the one that came after them. IOW, Y1 is 5 minutes older than Y2 and 10 minutes older than Y3. Still following me?

Back to the Future did a decent job of showing this. The only problem is that there would be an endless loop of McFly doing the same things over again.


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

jschuman said:


> A quick, random, inconsequential thing:
> - They really like to re-write history on this show. IIRC when Parkman first heard his wife's thoughts about her affair, she thought something like "oh no. He knows.". But then at the very beginning of this episode they showed the same scene but now he heard her think "He knows _about the affair_".
> 
> Did I just misremember this, or did they just change it for the benefit of the 'previously scenes'?
> ...


 I think you are correct.


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

choccy said:


> Mohinder's mystery past woman is Mira Shenoy on Heroes, or actress Kavi Ladnier:
> 
> That is a beautiful woman


Oh. My. Goodness. Yes.

First Navi Rawat (_The O.C._ and _Numb3rs_) and now Ms. Ladnier. Can we have more lovely Indian ladies invade our TV series, please? Thank you.

Not much of a TV career so far. (One episode apiece of "Las Vegas", "Law & Order", and "Cosby." I see she has some movies coming out in 2007.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> As soon as you travel back in time from the present you introduce a problem. I believe you would create an infinite loop of you. Basically, you from the present, call it Y1, goes back 5 minutes. Y1 will be there but Y2 will also be there. Assuming nothing changes, in five minutes Y2 would leave the present and jump back five minutes where Y1 and Y2 were at. This would create a Y3 and this cycle would continue.


Put down the reefer and step away from the lighter.

There's a cheesy sci-fi novel about time travel called Timemaster who deal with this stuff correctly. No infinite loops and mysteriously multiplying protagonists. Even Heinlein did a decent job with it.

If someone goes back in time there are loads of potential problems, but looping isn't one of them. For a time, you have the same person in the room at different points in their personal timeline. then one leaves. It's as if you were standing in a room with your identical twin you never knew about but who shares all your memories plus about 5 minutes of memory you don't have yet.


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## PeternJim (Sep 25, 2004)

Sirius Black said:


> HRG has shown he is willing to lie (to his daughter), manipulate, coerce, kidnap, inject with heroin, and "erase" in order to "protect" his daugher. Would you do that? Who knows what else he has done in the name of "protection".


For all you people who have said (validly, I'm sure) how you would do all this and more to protect your kids, and used that as proof that HRG isn't so bad, a few points.

The big one is, of course, that one thing he ISN'T doing is saying to her "Claire, honey, look, I know your secret, and you are in serious danger. I don't want to scare you too much, but you cannot go to Homecoming tomorrow."
He has a secure lab facility. He can put her in it. Heck, he could put her on a plane to Guam. And he has a guy who can erase memories, so if she reacts badly, he can just erase the conversation and start again.

And of course, he's been kidnapping these people and erasing their memories for at least 16 years, since he adopted Claire after "something went badly" and either killed or made total amnesiacs (or vegetables) out of her parents. So you cannot claim that he's a great guy who is only doing this stuff out of a willingness to protect Claire.

If he lets her go to Homecoming, knowing that Sylar is out to kill her, then he is willing to put her in potentially fatal harm's way for some reason. Maybe he has future foreknowledge that anything else would be worse. Maybe he doesn't give a crap about her and is using her as bait for Sylar and is floating the caring dad story on Isaac. Maybe he works for someone else and is following orders while trying to skew things to help Claire.

I don't know, and that fact is one of the big reasons I love this show. But I don't buy the selfless dad routine. I agree with the people who feel he isn't the Big Bad, but he ain't clean either.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I still think that HRG falls on the "wrong" side of the good vs. evil line, if there is such a line. I belive that he cares for Claire and that he'll do anything to save her. I think that many of the things that he has done in the name of his research are morally wrong. Whether that translates to "evil" is a philosophical discussion I just have no interest in  I went with evil because that's how the show described him; I think the writers are hedging their bets now with the character and are trying to be more vague about him, but whoever writes the promos for NBC hasn't caught on.

Does anyone else feel like they're going to have to rip out their ear drums if they hear the whispery promo "save the cheerleader save the world" one more time? Talk about taking a neat phrase from a show and overplaying it so much that now I have to mute the television or change the radio channel anytime anything about Heroes comes on because I hate they way they use that phrase. Future Hiro said it so matter-of-fact, two short declarative statements, but the promo drives me nuts.

The episode was pretty good. I hate the time travel stuff because of all the paradoxes and they never seem to make sense. I'm a little disappointed they've introduced even more "heroes" - yes, I know, the show is about heroes, but the more characters who have special powers the less special they seem. I'm just glad Ando still seems normal (for now...what do we think his power will be?). I think this episode officially moved Mohinder in the questionable category - either the little boy was using powers on Mohinder or Mohinder has some powers of his own.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jschuman said:


> A quick, random, inconsequential thing:
> - They really like to re-write history on this show. IIRC when Parkman first heard his wife's thoughts about her affair, she thought something like "oh no. He knows.". But then at the very beginning of this episode they showed the same scene but now he heard her think "He knows _about the affair_".
> 
> Did I just misremember this, or did they just change it for the benefit of the 'previously scenes'?
> ...


Yes, my wife and I both looked at each other and said, "That's not what she thought."


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> Yes, my wife and I both looked at each other and said, "That's not what she thought."


LOL. The exact same thing happened in our house!


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Royster said:


> Put down the reefer and step away from the lighter.
> 
> There's a cheesy sci-fi novel about time travel called Timemaster who deal with this stuff correctly. No infinite loops and mysteriously multiplying protagonists. Even Heinlein did a decent job with it.
> 
> If someone goes back in time there are loads of potential problems, but looping isn't one of them. For a time, you have the same person in the room at different points in their personal timeline. then one leaves. It's as if you were standing in a room with your identical twin you never knew about but who shares all your memories plus about 5 minutes of memory you don't have yet.


See, I might look into that except you told me it was cheesy...

I prefer my infinite loop idea. It would be cool to have an army of me.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Another point about HRG...whenever he has a soft, sweet expression of love for his darling daughter, it vanishes from his face the moment she turns away. I suspect their relationship is not what she thinks it is.

And as for Greg Grundberg's wife's thought in the recap, that was just so they could get the whole thing (that she had an affair, and that he knows about it) in with one shot. Think of it as recap license.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

RickStrobel said:


> Anal?
> 
> I simply asked for the character's name and commented that it seemed unusual that a name would be three initials as I've never heard of that. Then someone commented that of course there are people like FDR, JFK and LBJ like I'd been living under a rock. No, I've heard those *nicknames* before.
> 
> ...


They aren't nicknames, they're initials. We know Claire's father's name is Mr. Bennett (can't think offhand if we've been given a first name. Maybe when he introduced himself to Isaac???) But when his character was first shown on the show he mysteriously seemed to be interested in Mohender and all we knew about him was he wore glasses. So the credits listed him as Horned Rimmed Glasses. So just like people prefer to use FDR instead of writing out Franklin Delano Roosevelt or using JFK to refer to John F. Kennedy, people started using HRG. Its as simple as that. It's just shorter than writing out Horn Rimmed Glasses or even just Mr. Bennett.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

PeternJim said:


> For all you people who have said (validly, I'm sure) how you would do all this and more to protect your kids, and used that as proof that HRG isn't so bad, a few points.
> 
> The big one is, of course, that one thing he ISN'T doing is saying to her "Claire, honey, look, I know your secret, and you are in serious danger. I don't want to scare you too much, but you cannot go to Homecoming tomorrow."
> He has a secure lab facility. He can put her in it. Heck, he could put her on a plane to Guam. And he has a guy who can erase memories, so if she reacts badly, he can just erase the conversation and start again.
> ...


That is a really good point. He does seem to have the resources to keep her safe. But maybe he feels a strong need to keep his little girl his "little girl" for as long as he can. I'm sure he doesn't want to have to do a mind erase on her or expose her to a lifestyle that he's probably tried desperately to keep her away from. Or even worse, what if whoever he's working for doesn't know Claire has exhibitied abillities and he wants to keep that a secret so his employers (Linderman?) don't find out.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Interesting tidbit, considering that the big baddie is named Linderman and he likes to cut the heads open and steal brains ....
*"Linderman"* is an anagram for *"Learn Mind"*.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Another point about HRG...whenever he has a soft, sweet expression of love for his darling daughter, it vanishes from his face the moment she turns away. I suspect their relationship is not what she thinks it is.


I was interpreting that as concern for her and the fact that she's one of the freaks he's pursuing. I don't think there's any doubt that he loves her.



> And as for Greg Grundberg's wife's thought in the recap, that was just so they could get the whole thing (that she had an affair, and that he knows about it) in with one shot. Think of it as recap license.


Exactly. The first time around it was left only as "he knows" because it was still a mystery to us what she was talking about (although it was pretty easy to figure out).


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## jschuman (Feb 20, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And as for Greg Grundberg's wife's thought in the recap, that was just so they could get the whole thing (that she had an affair, and that he knows about it) in with one shot. Think of it as recap license.


Yeah, I figured that was why they did that. I still think it's weird, though. I mean, wouldn't it be odd if shows just started changing the dialog in flashbacks to represent what we know now?!?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

PJO1966 said:


> I was interpreting that as concern for her and the fact that she's one of the freaks he's pursuing. I don't think there's any doubt that he loves her.


I actually do doubt it. His reactions (not just in that one case) change so dramatically when she's not looking. I think the concern he shows about her might be concern for a valuable asset, not a loved one.

Not saying I'm right, just that this is something I've noticed, and I doubt it's there by accident.


PJO1966 said:


> Exactly. The first time around it was left only as "he knows" because it was still a mystery to us what she was talking about (although it was pretty easy to figure out).


I don't think there was intended to be any mystery; in context, it was perfectly obvious. In fact, the changed line in the recap might have been partly due to their surprise that a lot of people didn't get that she was having an affair (or thought that the line as originally read was intended as misdirection).


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jschuman said:


> A quick, random, inconsequential thing:
> - They really like to re-write history on this show. IIRC when Parkman first heard his wife's thoughts about her affair, she thought something like "oh no. He knows.". But then at the very beginning of this episode they showed the same scene but now he heard her think "He knows _about the affair_".
> 
> Did I just misremember this, or did they just change it for the benefit of the 'previously scenes'?
> ...


It just goes to show... it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

getreal said:


> Interesting tidbit, considering that the big baddie is named Linderman and he likes to cut the heads open and steal brains ....
> *"Linderman"* is an anagram for *"Learn Mind"*.


Except that it's Sylar that's stealing the brains...at least according to the FBI chick and the dying words of one of his victims.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> Except that it's Sylar that's stealing the brains...at least according to the FBI chick and the dying words of one of his victims.


We have yet to meet Linderman, and really haven't been introduced to Sylar yet.

Could be they are one in the same, or cohorts.

phox


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> We have yet to meet Linderman, and really haven't been introduced to Sylar yet.
> 
> Could be they are one in the same, or cohorts.


I'm thinking cohorts. Sylar takes instructions from Linderman.
Purely speculation at this point, mind you.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Royster said:


> Put down the reefer and step away from the lighter.
> 
> There's a cheesy sci-fi novel about time travel called Timemaster who deal with this stuff correctly. No infinite loops and mysteriously multiplying protagonists. Even Heinlein did a decent job with it.


Correctly? How do you deal correctly with something that is impossible? It seems to me that the field would be entirely open once you accept the impossible and any rules that you can come up with could apply at that point.


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

logic88 said:


> Correctly? How do you deal correctly with something that is impossible? It seems to me that the field would be entirely open once you accept the impossible and any rules that you can come up with could apply at that point.


The last I heard, physicists who study time travel (yes, there are physicists who study it, but only as theory, using heavy mathematics that I wouldn't stand a chance of understanding) tend to think that changing the past would be impossible. If you went back in time to prevent the assassination of JFK, you'd fail -- and what's more, your future self would have already been in our past, and tried and failed to prevent the assassination; it would all just be part of the immutable past. I suppose that also means that the future attempt to go back in time would also be inevitable.

Of course, this is all theoretical. If you throw away what little and lightly-held actual theory exists and come up with your own fictional time-travel rules, anything goes. The paradoxes make it difficult (perhaps impossible) to come up with entirely consistent rules that permit changing the past, though. The best explanations I know of involve multiple universes -- when you go back into the past, you create a new timeline that exists independently of and parallel to the one from which you originated, so you can change anything and not affect yourself (so no fading away if you prevent your own birth, a la _Back to the Future_); nor does your future self need to go back in time to preserve the new timeline. I have no idea whether the Heroes writers are using such a model, though.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

srs5694 said:


> ... -- and what's more, your future self would have already been in our past, and tried and failed to prevent the assassination; it would all just be part of the immutable past.


As one theory goes, if time travel were possible then we should be seeing time travelers visiting us (their past) all the time. We don't see any time travelers, ergo time travel must not be possible. I've never liked this explanation.



srs5694 said:


> The best explanations I know of involve multiple universes -- when you go back into the past, you create a new timeline that exists independently of and parallel to the one from which you originated, so you can change anything and not affect yourself.


This is the explanation I prefer, too: That the universe that we live in is just one of an infinite number of universes (the multiverse). Every time something with multiple possible outcomes occurs in our universe (or in any of the other universes), that universe splits with one outcome represented in each newly created universe. From the perspective of an individual in any given universe looking back, it's just one straight line. Only from the perspective of an outsider can all the branching points be seen. There's a great story by Dan Simmons that tackles this concept (as have many other authors), but I can't now recall its title.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The best explanation I know is that time travel is a literary device. A really cool one, but totally fictional, and thus subject to whatever rules suits the writer's needs.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

You've got it wrong. Time travel is possible, but you can only travel back as far as the time of your death.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Graymalkin said:


> Oh. My. Goodness. Yes.
> 
> First Navi Rawat (_The O.C._ and _Numb3rs_) and now Ms. Ladnier. Can we have more lovely Indian ladies invade our TV series, please? Thank you.


Don't forget Sarasvati  from Las Vegas, although I don't know if they're still using her anymore; I don't think we've seen her this season yet.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Zevida said:


> I went with evil because that's how the show described him


Just to nitpick, evil is how the _promo writers_ describe him. Network Television has a vast and storied history of having promo writers who have absolutely no idea what's going on with the show they write promos for.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

dswallow said:


> You've got it wrong. Time travel is possible, but you can only travel back as far as the time of your death.


...and you can only doing it by leaping into the bodies of people who are living in that time.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

busyba said:


> Don't forget Sarasvati  from Las Vegas, although I don't know if they're still using her anymore; I don't think we've seen her this season yet.


I don't watch Las Vegas.. but maybe I should! *drool*


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

busyba said:


> ...and you can only doing it by leaping into the bodies of people who are living in that time.


Unless you had a relative in say... the Civil War. And you might occasionally, accidentally be a monkey.

Man, that show went bad.


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## dadx2 (Oct 14, 2002)

choccy said:


> I don't watch Las Vegas.. *but maybe I should! *drool**


Why do you want to drool?


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

dadx2 said:


> Why do you want to drool?


Have you SEEN the picture?


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## PKurmas (Apr 24, 2001)

logic88 said:


> Correctly? How do you deal correctly with something that is impossible? It seems to me that the field would be entirely open once you accept the impossible and any rules that you can come up with could apply at that point.


Please consult "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe", Chapter 15. 

"It's well known that there's no problem changing the course of history -- the course of history does not change because it fits together like a jigsaw. All of the important changes have happened before the things they were supposed to change and it all sorts itself out in the end.

"The major problem is quite simply one of grammar."

I can't type anymore because (a) I'm sure the Copyright Police are coming for me, and (b) I'm about to start laughing too hard thinking about the conjugations in Japanese. Future Semiconditionally Subinverted Plagal Past Subjunctive Intentional!

Now, what would happen if Douglas Adams was writing Heroes?
(Or maybe a show on some other network?  )


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

danterner said:


> This is the explanation I prefer, too: That the universe that we live in is just one of an infinite number of universes (the multiverse). Every time something with multiple possible outcomes occurs in our universe (or in any of the other universes), that universe splits with one outcome represented in each newly created universe. From the perspective of an individual in any given universe looking back, it's just one straight line. Only from the perspective of an outsider can all the branching points be seen. There's a great story by Dan Simmons that tackles this concept (as have many other authors), but I can't now recall its title.


I don't like that at all. That's a tremendous amount of wasted space. The sheer number of different possible events in a volume as small as the Earth over the course of a day must be enough to create one separate universe for very proton in the universe. It's just too much unnecessary duplication of mostly nothing.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> See, I might look into that except you told me it was cheesy...


It isn;t cheesy as much as it's poor writing on the part of the author. The science in it is first rate, but the author dosn't really have the skill to write three-dimensional characters.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/f/robert-l-forward/timemaster.htm



> I prefer my infinite loop idea. It would be cool to have an army of me.


Cool for you perhaps. For the rest of us, not so much.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

danterner said:


> As one theory goes, if time travel were possible then we should be seeing time travelers visiting us (their past) all the time. We don't see any time travelers, ergo time travel must not be possible. I've never liked this explanation.


That explanation has several major flaws.

1) It assumes that time travelers would publicly reveal themselves. They may not want to, or have good reasons not to.

2) It assumes that we aren't so far in the past, relative to when time travel is made feasible, that they remember us. Would a human in 20 million AD remember, or are we part of the vast, lonely, and forgotten history of the human race (_Beyond Infinity_ by Gregory Benford deals in part with that subject)?

3) It assumes that time-wise we are close enough to them. For technical or physical reasons maybe they can't go back far enough in time to get to us.

4) It assumes we're interesting enough to visit.

5) It assumes that if time travel is possible it will inevitably be invented.


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## lvirden (Jul 29, 2003)

Yes - the guide listings for hero say 1 hour - but the episodes, in general, seem to be running 1 hr and 1 or 2 minutes (can't tell - I've been watching them tivoed and I too am getting things cut off).

Also, I am typically watching a couple episodes at a time, so did I mix up episodes? Because I thought the part where Micah calls Nikki on the broken phone was in the latest episode.

Also, did anyone else catch that Claire's mom died "an unfortunate death" due to work being done by Bennet? He started out looking like a bad guy. Then I started wondering whether he was just one of those "have to do whatever it takes to reach my goal" types - which, if one is attempting to save the world, means that things will LOOK bad in the short term.

And how does he know the time that Claire is going to die? The time didn't show up in the paintings, did it?

So many questions. For instance, that secret file in the drawer in India - should we interpret the headlines as being that his dad believed that the son (or at least the sister) had some sort of dream powers?

I assume that Ted, the mind reader, etc. all are chasing a red herring - the bruises, cuts, etc. are likely from Bennet's work, and not from something causing the transformation itself, right? And those marks - do you suppose it's some sort of RFID tracking chip being implanted so they can track people down?

I wasn't expecting Eden to have the power to make people do things she wanted. Looking back, I'm guessing she used the power on both of the professors...


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

What are the odds of getting through a week without pages and pages of debate about time travel? It hought these were supposed to be discussions on the show, why do they keep getting turned into elaborate discussions on the possiblity of time travel?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

dimented said:


> What are the odds of getting through a week without pages and pages of debate about time travel? It hought these were supposed to be discussions on the show, why do they keep getting turned into elaborate discussions on the possiblity of time travel?


+1

Maybe we should have another thread - the "Heroes Time Travel Debate" thread where we^H^Hyou can all discuss this.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, what are people thinking about, talking about time travel in a thread about Heroes? It's not like Heroes features time travel in any way, shape, or...

Oh, wait.

Never mind.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

I don't mind talking about it some, but when I come here to talk about the show and read all the posts so I can avoid smeeking, it gets annoying to go through pages of time travel posts that have nothing to do with the show.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

srs5694 said:


> I assume you mean _Ando,_ Hiro's friend; AFAIK, no character named Anders has been introduced so far. In any event, Ando might remember everything up to a point, but if Hiro is successful, Ando wouldn't remember the murder of Charlie, since it wouldn't have occurred. The episode ended soon enough after Hiro left that you can argue that everything we saw afterwards, including Ando counting to five and pacing around, occurred in the altered timeline. Or not; we'll just have to wait and see which of the bazillion sets of time-travel rules the writers are using....


Has it occured to anyone else that Hiro may be causing all the lost time for all the characters, maybe even marking them.

He could have interacted with all the people in the future, then decided to go back to the past to mark all the people with special powers, so his present day self could identify them. That might explain why people with the marks (Parkman, Ted) all have lost time. There might be some sort of rift from when Hiro came back to visit.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Royster said:


> I don't like that at all. That's a tremendous amount of wasted space. The sheer number of different possible events in a volume as small as the Earth over the course of a day must be enough to create one separate universe for very proton in the universe. It's just too much unnecessary duplication of mostly nothing.


Clearly you've never seen an episode of Sliders


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

stiffi said:


> Has it occured to anyone else that Hiro may be causing all the lost time for all the characters, maybe even marking them.
> 
> He could have interacted with all the people in the future, then decided to go back to the past to mark all the people with special powers, so his present day self could identify them. That might explain why people with the marks (Parkman, Ted) all have lost time. There might be some sort of rift from when Hiro came back to visit.


Nah. The lost time is explained by being with the Haitian and HRG and having there memory erased for a couple of days.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dimented said:


> Nah. The lost time is explained by being with the Haitian and HRG and having there memory erased for a couple of days.


And in this episode, the marks looked less like tattoos and more like cuts...probably a side effect of the work that was done on them rather than a deliberate mark.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

tivogurl said:


> 5) It assumes that if time travel is possible it will inevitably be invented.


Nothing is invented that doesn't already exist. I believe the correct word would be: discovered.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And in this episode, the marks looked less like tattoos and more like cuts...probably a side effect of the work that was done on them rather than a deliberate mark.


I'm thinking that it is a very distinct scar left either by the Hatian (he had to put his hands physically on the victim), or some sort of subcutaneous tracking implant.

I'm partial to the implant.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

classicX said:


> Nothing is invented that doesn't already exist. I believe the correct word would be: discovered.


Uh, I'm pretty sure the microprocessor didn't exist before was invented. Among other things.

(I can just see Gary Boone walking in the desert, and stumbling across a microprocessor. "Oh, cool, look what I discovered! )


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## srs5694 (Oct 14, 2001)

dimented said:


> I don't mind talking about it some, but when I come here to talk about the show and read all the posts so I can avoid smeeking, it gets annoying to go through pages of time travel posts that have nothing to do with the show.


Different people come to the show with different interests and priorities. In a show that's as popular and talked-about as Heroes, it's inevitable that some of the discussions won't interest you. The time-travel posts specifically, though, _do_ have something to do with the show, since one character has precognitive abilities and another can travel through time. You might not care about the explanations of this, but that doesn't mean that the discussions of these matters "have nothing to do with the show."

I suppose we might try creating two or three threads for each episode -- say, science/technology discussions, plot discussions, and character discussions -- but there'd be inevitable duplication and topics that could legitimately go in multiple threads and drift within each thread into the areas covered by the others, so I suspect that wouldn't work very well in practice. My suggestion: Just skip posts that are obviously about things that don't interest you.


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

dswallow said:


> You've got it wrong. Time travel is possible, but you can only travel back as far as the time of your death.


And as far forward as the time of your birth? That's a pretty narrow window, except maybe for P.D.Q. Bach. 



Graymalkin said:


> And we know now that the double hash-mark tattoo on Sprague and Parkman were put there by HRG and "the Haitian." (Or do we?) But wasn't Parkman manifesting his ability _before_ they kidnapped him? Sloppy plotting.


Or maybe when he was "emptied", Parkman simply forgot being able to do it before?

One possibility about what's going on with Hiro right now is something the future Hiro mentioned to Peter, how just by being there in the subway car, he's risking a rift, a danger he learned about the hard way. Well, this looks like a hard way to learn about a danger.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Uh, I'm pretty sure the microprocessor didn't exist before was invented. Among other things.
> 
> (I can just see Gary Boone walking in the desert, and stumbling across a microprocessor. "Oh, cool, look what I discovered! )


The microprocessor was invented - the way electricity works was discovered.

The time machine may be invented - but if time travel is possible, that will be discovered.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

srs5694 said:


> Different people come to the show with different interests and priorities. In a show that's as popular and talked-about as Heroes, it's inevitable that some of the discussions won't interest you. The time-travel posts specifically, though, _do_ have something to do with the show, since one character has precognitive abilities and another can travel through time. You might not care about the explanations of this, but that doesn't mean that the discussions of these matters "have nothing to do with the show."
> 
> I suppose we might try creating two or three threads for each episode -- say, science/technology discussions, plot discussions, and character discussions -- but there'd be inevitable duplication and topics that could legitimately go in multiple threads and drift within each thread into the areas covered by the others, so I suspect that wouldn't work very well in practice. My suggestion: Just skip posts that are obviously about things that don't interest you.


I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I am talking about when the time travel discussion spirals off into talking about other books and all kinds of other things that have nothing to do with the show and then get argued about. Count the posts in this thread alone that are solely about if time travel is possible. What does that have to do with discussing this particular episode? Then there are pages of these debates. I don't mind a few posts about it, but many posts on each show thread just gets old. And I didn't mind it the first couple of times it came up and lasted forever in previous threads. But now, the same argmuent is just getting rehased with every new episode thread and it is getting old to me to keep reading. That is all.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

choccy said:


> The microprocessor was invented - the way electricity works was discovered.
> 
> The time machine may be invented - but if time travel is possible, that will be discovered.


But that's not what he said.

You and I agree that things are invented. He says otherwise.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Nothing is invented; these gadgets actually are created in an alternate universe and then transported here using a space/time jump device. Everything here is only discovered. It's all a great conspiracy experiment by those in the alternate universe.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

And people think I am stupid saying there is too much time travel talk in these threads.


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## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

dswallow said:


> You've got it wrong. Time travel is possible, but you can only travel back as far as the time of your death.


Back as far as the time of your death. Back?!? Wouldn't that be forward? 

Or did some type of irony just go right over my head?


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But that's not what he said.
> 
> You and I agree that things are invented. He says otherwise.


Saying "time travel may be invented" is really just short for saying "a device that allows you to time travel may be invented". It's perfectly valid.

What classicX actually said was:



classicX said:


> Nothing is invented that doesn't already exist. I believe the correct word would be: discovered.


Which is true if you consider that the universe is made up from a small number of elements/particles, and all we're doing is taking them and arranging them in a particular order so that they interact with each other in a particular way. Technically we're only "discovering" this method of ordering, we've never created anything anew


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

mcdougll said:


> Or did some type of irony just go right over my head?


Apparently, though you have noted it. You just don't yet comprehend the real point of my statement.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

choccy said:


> Which is true if you consider that the universe is made up from a small number of elements/particles, and all we're doing is taking them and arranging them in a particular order so that they interact with each other in a particular way. Technically we're only "discovering" this method of ordering, we've never created anything anew


We're creating this method of ordering. But humor aside, what classiX _said_ was dead wrong. It might not have been what he _meant_ to say (I suspect he meant to say something like what you really did say when you "corrected" me), but it's what he _said_. And I'm sorry if it bothers people, but I'm a big proponent of saying what you mean, not just throwing words out and assuming people will correctly read your mind.


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

Speaking of time travel...

Going for a blast into the real past
If the experiment works, a signal could be received before it's sent
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/292378_timeguy15.html


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

If time travel will be possible in the future, we would be able to do it now, since if it's discovered in one time period, all time periods will presumably have it...  Ergo time travel will never be possible.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

MickeS said:


> If time travel will be possible in the future, we would be able to do it now, since if it's discovered in one time period, all time periods will presumably have it...  Ergo time travel will never be possible.


Hi, Smeek.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

choccy said:


> Hi, Smeek.


Haha I even used the word "ergo".  Old theory though.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I just started watching this show this week...obvioulsy not the best strategy in the world. How many eps are supposed to run this season? I see only 13 listed in TVTome. Any chance NBC will run them from the beginning? Any other suggestions for me (outside of Torrents)? Thanks! BTW, I thoroughly enjoyed it!


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Supfreak26 said:


> Micah - Can fix broken phones with a touch


I think Micah's powers extend farther than that. IIRC, in the first or second episode, he is shown doing something fairly advanced to his computer - at the time we were led to believe that perhaps he was just really, really bright or computer-inclined, but now I would think that was early evidence of his powers, and that they probably extend to all sorts of machines or electronics.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DMHinCO said:


> Dark shadowy coffee-drinker exhibited the powers (and perhaps the build?) of DL more than any other character introduced thus far. Not likely, but possible.


Except for a) Charlies's skull seems to have been lopped off, a la Sylar's other victims, and b) Didn't we see "Dark shadowy coffee-drinker"'s hands at one point (when he was summoning the coffee cup), and weren't they of the Caucasian variety? I feel pretty safe in saying that wasn't DL.

It seemed clear to me that DSCD was intended to be Sylar - they deliberately had him in shadows and wearing a baseball cap, which is how Sylar was depicted the only previous time that we've seen him.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

PKurmas said:


> Please consult "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe", Chapter 15.
> 
> "It's well known that there's no problem changing the course of history -- the course of history does not change because it fits together like a jigsaw. All of the important changes have happened before the things they were supposed to change and it all sorts itself out in the end.
> 
> "The major problem is quite simply one of grammar."


:up: :up: :up:



> Now, what would happen if Douglas Adams was writing Heroes?


I think that happened already some time ago, only back then they called it "Doctor Who".


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

MickeS said:


> If time travel will be possible in the future, we would be able to do it now, since if it's discovered in one time period, all time periods will presumably have it...  Ergo time travel will never be possible.


Theories say that time travel will only be possible from the time time machine was invented to anywhere in the future and back. So there can be no time travel to our present time. I forget the reasons behind it.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

teknikel said:


> Theories say that time travel will only be possible from the time time machine was invented to anywhere in the future and back. So there can be no time travel to our present time. I forget the reasons behind it.


Probably something to do with the Temporal Prime Directive.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

dswallow said:


> Apparently, though you have noted it. You just don't yet comprehend the real point of my statement.


Sorry to get religious, but my belief is when you die you become an immortal being with no time limitations. Infinity--either good or bad. So then to you there is no time and you can travel anywhere in that world, but not back to this world before your death. Probably not what Swallow meant.


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## tbone526 (Dec 2, 2004)

classicX said:


> +1
> 
> Maybe we should have another thread - the "Heroes Time Travel Debate" thread where we^H^Hyou can all discuss this.


We do/did/will. Just set your time machine to go back about a week. You can't find it now because we deleted it when we were done.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

srs5694 said:


> There was a subthread about this in the discussion for that episode. In brief, it's unknown how Sylar got away from being shot _at_ without any _obvious_ injury. Claire-style healing is just one possibility. There are lots of others, such as that he projects a force field that makes bullets non-lethal; that he was wearing a bullet-proof vest (boring); that Parkman is a lousy shot and actually missed Sylar; that Parkman hit Sylar in the leg or some other non-lethal area; etc. A similarly-long list of possibilities for how he got away is possible, since they didn't show it clearly on-screen.


Or ... he could let the bullets go right through him, like DL goes through walls.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Any other suggestions for me (outside of Torrents)? Thanks! BTW, I thoroughly enjoyed it!


Well, you can ask Hiro to take you back in time a couple of months


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wprager said:


> Well, you can ask Hiro to take you back in time a couple of months


Thanks  but I just discovered SciFi is running the first six eps of Heroes on Nov. 29.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Royster said:


> I don't like that at all. That's a tremendous amount of wasted space. The sheer number of different possible events in a volume as small as the Earth over the course of a day must be enough to create one separate universe for very proton in the universe. It's just too much unnecessary duplication of mostly nothing.


Well, then you're really going to spit when you find out about the 11 dimensions that are theorized to exist in string theory physics ...


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Hiro has a problem: he is destined to fail. He himself said as much (and others have repeated it on this thread), when he visited Peter from the future.

If it were that simple, then Hiro could have just gone back in time and "saved the cheerleader" himself. It also lacks for drama, this much is true. But he obviously learned at some point that it wasn't that simple. The photo proves it - in the current timeline he went back at least 6 months, but the waitress is still dead.

But speaking of 6 months back, doesn't next week's episode speak of


Spoiler



going back 6 months in the past to see what Mohinder's dad was doing? Either the description or in the previews, I don't remember. Interesting time choice.



I think Sylar knows all about Hiro. I think he waited until Hiro was in the bathroom alone, then stopped time for everyone else to get to the waitress. Hiro would not have noticed the time stop by himself in the bathroom, as he surely would sitting in the booth. Plus the view of Hiro going to the men's room was from Sylar's point of view.

I love this show!


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> Hiro has a problem: he is destined to fail. He himself said as much (and others have repeated it on this thread), when he visited Peter from the future.
> 
> If it were that simple, then Hiro could have just gone back in time and "saved the cheerleader" himself. It also lacks for drama, this much is true. But he obviously learned at some point that it wasn't that simple. The photo proves it - in the current timeline he went back at least 6 months, but the waitress is still dead.


Hold up! How do we know the waitress is still dead? We didn't have enough time after Hiro disappeared to establish that. All we know is that the cops were in the diner, but they were in the diner for lunch anyway.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

JETarpon said:


> Hold up! How do we know the waitress is still dead? We didn't have enough time after Hiro disappeared to establish that. All we know is that the cops were in the diner, but they were in the diner for lunch anyway.


I'm of the opinion that she won't end up being dead.. we can't lose a Hero that easily


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

srs5694 said:


> There was a subthread about this in the discussion for that episode. In brief, it's unknown how Sylar got away from being shot at without any obvious injury. Claire-style healing is just one possibility. There are lots of others, such as that he projects a force field that makes bullets non-lethal; that he was wearing a bullet-proof vest (boring); that Parkman is a lousy shot and actually missed Sylar; that Parkman hit Sylar in the leg or some other non-lethal area; etc. A similarly-long list of possibilities for how he got away is possible, since they didn't show it clearly on-screen.





wprager said:


> Or ... he could let the bullets go right through him, like DL goes through walls.


It is unknown, but I am of the believe that Sylar, being described as "patient zero," does not naturally have every "hero" ability, but he is the AB+ of heroes - he can somehow "take" powers by taking the brains of his victims, and doing something with them. (I wouldn't put it past this show that he actually consumes the brain.)

Now, assuming this is true, he has no reason to kill Claire the way he did in the painting unless he wants her power. Which by extension means that he does not already have her power.

Now, we actually saw / heard the impact of the bullets when he was shot, so DL's power is unlikely.

Creating a kinetic forcefield is one possibility, but the footage suggests that Sylar was "surprised" by Parkman, and probably did not have time to create such a forcefield (unless he always keeps one around himself). He was also preoccupied by trying to make FBI chick shoot herself.

I think he was just wearing some armour.


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## choccy (Jan 1, 2001)

classicX said:


> I think he was just wearing some armour.


Or.. he already has Claire's ability and he is just killing the others for fun


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

tbone526 said:


> We do/did/will. Just set your time machine to go back about a week. You can't find it now because we deleted it when we were done.


Try further than a week...maybe we started it when Heroes first premired...but we obviously reached 1000 posts and the thread has since been locked 

And aside from bit torrent, the best way to catch an episode is on Sci-Fi. NBC carries the episodes online too, but only the most current ones. I wish they'd be more like ABC in that regards.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Royster said:


> I don't like that at all. That's a tremendous amount of wasted space. The sheer number of different possible events in a volume as small as the Earth over the course of a day must be enough to create one separate universe for very proton in the universe. It's just too much unnecessary duplication of mostly nothing.


Dimensions are copy-on-write.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

madscientist said:


> Dimensions are copy-on-write.


...and use sparse storage.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

The _Deal or No Deal_ models get in on the act -- see the Model Theater where Haley and Leyla play the Petrellis.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Good lord... it took me 6 days to see this episode and I come here and it's just rubbish conversations for the most part. Anagrams and time travel discussions gone totally haywire. It's like the first season of Lost... absolutely preposterous discussion. Did you guys know that Mohinder is an anagram for In red hom? What do you think that means? Have we seen a red home yet?

Back on point... Sylar waited until hiro wasn't in the room to go after memory girl. Based on his really intricate map and that, I'm fairly certain he knows about Hiro.

Second, my question about whether eden would have to commit statutory rape on claire to get her to do something has been answered - no, because a kiss is not required!

If it was sylar who killed Mohinder's Dad, he obviously was not all that in tune with his powers since he used his bare hands.

Maybe sylar's power is to constantly be enshrouded in darkness despite being in a well-lit area.

Forget about whether I would go through great lengths to save my daughter (obvious answer is yes), I would DEFINITELY go through great lengths to save the WORLD.

I can't wait for the office / heroes crossover episode where michael scott securs a deal with mr. bennet.

I think memory girl's power is more than memory. I think it's knowledge absorption or something. Wasn't there a moment when she said something that didn't seem to be in the book? Or maybe I'm making that up. What are the physics and quantum theories about memory absorption? If the cat is in the box and knowledge girl is there, does her knowing the status of the cat alter the reality of the cat? Anyone?

It's interesting to me that isaac didn't mention peter. Either he is loyal, stupid, or haitianized. I would have told them about peter and had them hottie-nap him. If peter and eden whisper sweet nothings into each other's ears simultaneously, what would happen? I think that episode would be on at 11pm on cinemax.

I don't get the key. It opened the desk but it didn't seem that the item mohinder found was actually IN the desk..? Or did he have to open the drawer to get at that?

That whole radiation device was a big red herring. The thing went into "you are dead" colors and they didn't die. Or maybe they will. Anyway the FBI chick can just resurrect the cop by sacrificing sylar.


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## rawbi01 (Oct 13, 2005)

I just saw Hiro on in the third Austin Powers movie. He had one line about copyrighting Godzilla. I wonder if he bent time to go see Godzilla?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> I can't wait for the office / heroes crossover episode where michael scott securs a deal with mr. bennet.


  


> I don't get the key. It opened the desk but it didn't seem that the item mohinder found was actually IN the desk..? Or did he have to open the drawer to get at that?


It was behind the drawer, but in order to get to it, you still needed the key.


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## SuncoastTivoFan (Jul 29, 2002)

madscientist said:


> Dimensions are copy-on-write.





Dennis Wilkinson said:


> ...and use sparse storage.


LOL! 
How many folks on here work with storage products?!

-SuncoastTiVoFan
SAN tech support


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## MirclMax (Jul 12, 2000)

srs5694 said:


> Another issue: Going in, I figured the episode title was a reference to the Doomsday Clock, which is currently set to 7 minutes to midnight. Perhaps it was that, too, but the watch on the hand of Chandra Suresh's killer in the flashback got broken at that time. The same watch later (story time; earlier in show time) appeared in the diner, and although it wasn't shown in Charlie's death scene, it seems pretty obvious that this is Sylar's watch and that he killed both Chandra and Charlie. FWIW, that watch made its first appearance seven minutes into my TiVo's recording of the episode -- but I padded the start time by one minute, so that's probably just a coincidence.


So, does anyone think the fact that the Doomsday Clock just got moved up 2 minutes is going to affect this? Or will they just ignore it and move on?


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Okay, I am just getting to this show now - have watched the first 10 eps or so over the past week. And I read all nine pages to hopefully find the answer to this:



drew2k said:


> Great, great, great show. I was kind of thrown at the beginning when Isaac was with Eden, and freaked for a minute thinking I missed an episode, but I figured it out.


but never saw it... can someone help me out? I even watched two more eps after this one in case they helped me figure it out...with no luck. How did Isaac end up with Eden? Did I miss something, or am I just not connecting something?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jenhudson said:


> Okay, I am just getting to this show now - have watched the first 10 eps or so over the past week. And I read all nine pages to hopefully find the answer to this:
> 
> but never saw it... can someone help me out? I even watched two more eps after this one in case they helped me figure it out...with no luck. How did Isaac end up with Eden? Did I miss something, or am I just not connecting something?


I don't recall exactly what's been seen up to this episode and what is shown afterwards, but I'm pretty sure that if you are seeing Issac with Eden (he's clean shaven in some room somewhere, right?) that there has already been a scene, a very short one, where Issac is in his studio and there's a knock at the door and he opens the door and Eden is standing there. There's maybe one line of dialogue total in the whole scene where Eden says hello or something like that and that's all we see.

It's an easy enough scene to forget since I think at the time that scene happens Eden doesn't appear to us to be a significant character and the scene was really quick.

What goes unseen by us but can be easily inferred is that Eden convinces Issac to come with her to wherever it is they are now. How and where and why and stuff like that has yet to be revealed and may or may not be revealed in the future.

(I hope that was spoiler-free enough for you.... )


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Thanks! I completely didn't remember that, but now that you mention it, I *think* I remember her standing at the doorway but that was it. I was thinking I missed an entire scene (not just a bit) or I fell asleep or something!


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