# System Message - It's coming. Are you ready?



## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

New system message this morning


> Subject: It's coming. Are you ready?
> From: The TiVo Team
> Date: Fri 4th Mar 2011
> Expire: Fri 11th Mar 2011
> ...


Save us from VM's marketing department pleeeeez!


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## speedyrite (May 18, 2002)

It's just adding further insult to injury really!


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

No. It's a company doing a mass-marketing campaign. Nothing more.


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## velocitysurfer1 (Sep 6, 2006)

cwaring said:


> No. It's a company doing a mass-marketing campaign. Nothing more.


Agreed, but for those in non VM areas then the opinion of speedyrite is correct.

It's coming - the end of S1 TiVo
Are you ready - for the community EPG


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

cwaring said:


> No. It's a company doing a mass-marketing campaign. Nothing more.


As velocitysurfer1 wrote it is far worse, in fact it is what speedyrite wrote "adding insult to injury"

Bad enough to make me reconsider the legal position.


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

Does anyone know if the VM TiVo can do _targeted_ advertising - oops, I mean "System Messages", i.e. send mails to a selected group of VM TiVos?

I'm sure that's something the marketing-savvy VM would have wanted to be designed in to the software.

I can just see it now... a System Message saying "Exciting News for all VM TV users in Doncaster! A new Virgin Megastore has opened in Bawtry Road - scoot along now for some fantastic special opening deals!!"

 :down:

.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

velocitysurfer1 said:


> Agreed, but for those in non VM areas then the opinion of speedyrite is correct.


Yes. Some people can't get some products advertised to them. I couldn't get "free broadband" from Sky (even if I wanted to) yet they're happy to market it to me in flyers I get through the door. This is the same thing.



Steve_K said:


> Bad enough to make me reconsider the legal position.


As has been pointed out many times, there _is_ no "legal position" 



spitfires said:


> Does anyone know if the VM TiVo can do _targeted_ advertising - oops, I mean "System Messages", i.e. send mails to a selected group of VM TiVos?


No. All System Messages go to all S1 units.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Messages-wise - Its a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

TBH many tivo owners are _still _ confused about whether their service is being turned off or not !
- "Whats a S1 Tivo ? Is my Thomson TiVo an S1 ?"
I've had 30-40 emails to that effect last week - more before.

The message might have been better reading "All *Thomson * boxes will cease being able to complete a daily call...".

It's similar to the TV analogue switch off - despite freeview boxes being available for years, on the day of switchoff (granada area in 2009) there were a huge number of people "without TV".


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

cwaring said:


> No. All System Messages go to all S1 units.


he wasn't asking about S1 units.

Not seen any mention of the messaging system on VM TiVos yet.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

VM TiVos get "personalised" messages after setting recordings online from the website,
and every few days after install there's a new "feature tip" - e.g. how to use wishlists was one, suggestions another.


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

cwaring said:


> . .As has been pointed out many times, there _is_ no "legal position"  . . .


You wouldn't put money on that no matter how many  you care to sarcastically post.

There is of course a "legal position". TiVo and VM would have got advice on the legal position and will have concluded that it was that either they were legally sound beyond reasonable doubt or more likely, no one would think it worth their while pursuing a case.

But each time they send me that sort of idiot message adding insult to injury then my pride will come into play. I might actually be quite happy to lose a few quid so they can't gloat.

I won't win the lottery big time tonight but if I did an injunction would be at VM by Monday morning

So TiVo why not start putting some apology to non VM area people in your future messages that you force us all to read.

PS just bought Lottery ticket, you never know


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> he wasn't asking about S1 units.


Sorry. My mistake. Then I don't know the answer.



> Not seen any mention of the messaging system on VM TiVos yet.


There certainly is one; though it's only being used as a way to tell you what your new Tivo can do. Oh, and any problems with setting remote recordings.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Steve_K said:


> There is of course a "legal position". TiVo and VM would have got advice on the legal position and will have concluded that it was that either they were legally sound beyond reasonable doubt or more likely, no one would think it worth their while pursuing a case.


Well yes. Of course they will have. I meant there's no "legal position" for customers to take. Sorry, I didn't explain that too well!



> But each time they send me that sort of idiot message adding insult to injury then my pride will come into play.


1. It's not an "idiot message". It's _just_ a message. Well, it's a marketing message. 2. "Hurt pride" is not a legal argument 



> ...so they can't gloat.


Except that they're not doing 



> I won't win the lottery big time tonight but if I did an injunction would be at VM by Monday morning.


An injunction for what; on what grounds? 



> So TiVo why not start putting some apology to non VM area people in your future messages that you force us all to read.


I have never been "forced" to read a Tivo system message in the eight or so years I had one. Yes, you get a notifcation that there is a new message available to read. You can safely ignore it if you want to.



> PS just bought Lottery ticket, you never know


Good luck


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## JudyB (Jan 25, 2006)

cwaring said:


> I have never been "forced" to read a Tivo system message in the eight or so years I had one. Yes, you get a notifcation that there is a new message available to read. You can safely ignore it if you want to.


These messages are a bit different - in addition to being able to read them when/if you wish from the System Messages menu they display automatically the first time you click on the Tivo button after they have arrived. So, yes, they are very much "in your face" and irritating for those of us who have no option for getting a VM Tivo.

However they aren't nearly as annoying as the Freeview messages we have just started getting about digital switchover coming to our area in September. Since our Tivo drives a Sky box I can't tell, but I imagine those messages will mess up any Tivo/Freeview recordings...


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## spitfires (Dec 19, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Yes, you get a notifcation that there is a new message available to read. You can safely ignore it if you want to.


That would be true of "normal" messages but this was sent out as a "System Message" which, as you probably remember, is displayed automatically.

(Of course, one could then pedantically say that you don't _have_ to read something that is displayed on the screen in front of you - but that would be a silly remark if one did.)


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

JudyB said:


> These messages are a bit different - in addition to being able to read them when/if you wish from the System Messages menu they display automatically the first time you click on the Tivo button after they have arrived. So, yes, they are very much "in your face" and irritating for those of us who have no option for getting a VM Tivo.


Fair enough. I sit corrected. 


spitfires said:


> That would be true of "normal" messages but this was sent out as a "System Message" which, as you probably remember, is displayed automatically.


I certainly don't remember seeing any. (But then my memory's not _that_ good!)


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

cwaring said:


> Yes. Some people can't get some products advertised to them. I couldn't get "free broadband" from Sky (even if I wanted to) yet they're happy to market it to me in flyers I get through the door. This is the same thing.


Virgin regularly put flyers through my door offering me cable even though we can't get cable in our area. I don't think much of their marketing department.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yeah. That's definitely a bit stupid. But that's also one of the problems of mass-market campaigns, delivered to every door via the Royal Mail.

I can only assume it's actually cost-effective for them.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

cwaring said:


> Yeah. That's definitely a bit stupid. But that's also one of the problems of mass-market campaigns, delivered to every door via the Royal Mail.
> 
> I can only assume it's actually cost-effective for them.


I'm not sure its all VM's fault - they may not even know.

Our neighbouring village gets a VM flyer from the postman every week - but they don't have VM cable.

But they also get a pizza home delivery menus from him too - and the shops they are all from will not delivery as they are 'out of the area'.

I suspect Royal Mail will only deliver by a post code block.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Very true, ozsat. I should have thought of that


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> I'm not sure its all VM's fault - they may not even know.
> 
> Our neighbouring village gets a VM flyer from the postman every week - but they don't have VM cable.
> 
> ...


I'm not aware of any individual UK postcode that covers more than about 50 addresses. Or are you referring to only the first three digits of the postcode.


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## MikeC34 (Mar 2, 2009)

cwaring said:


> Fair enough. I sit corrected.
> 
> I certainly don't remember seeing any. (But then my memory's not _that_ good!)


At least the last 3 system messages have been forced to display when first accessing a TiVo session. Very annoying, especially to those not able to get access to cable.

Incidentally I've lost the two threads showing:
- the location of TiVo UK owners (since found it under Map of TiVo owners - see how much I've been upset and my memory is shot)
- the number of TiVo S1 owners and the 5 option survey about their possible future TiVo use.


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## sad_tivo_man (Apr 27, 2003)

It is a shame we can't set up an auto-forward of those messages ...then we could forward them to [email protected]


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yes. Because that would really help your cause and not p!ss him off at all, would it? 

Seriously, some of you guys need to get a bit of common sense and decency.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Yes. Because that would really help your cause and not p!ss him off at all, would it?
> 
> Seriously, some of you guys need to get a bit of common sense and decency.


You really have become a management supporting company lickspittle haven't you Carl.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

No. I just think you get further with honey than with vinegar.

All this "let's bombard them with emails", nonsense talk of a class action that would surely fail, sending messages to _personal_ Facebook accounts, etc. It's just complete and utter rubbish.

Yes, get the press involved. Yes, start a campaign if you like (though the Facebook page is only at 136 people; so what does that tell you?). But using common sense, respect and decency will get you further than the stuff I have mentioned.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> No. I just think you get further with honey than with vinegar.


Clearly you are not familiar with the history of Israel, Northern Ireland etc, etc.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yes, because comparing the loss of Tivo service is _exactly_ like the troubles in NI and Israel, etc. 

What was that I mentioned about using _common sense_? Off the back of your last comment, I could probably also add stop using hyperbole


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## Steve_K (May 5, 2001)

cwaring said:


> No. I just think you get further with honey than with vinegar.
> 
> All this "let's bombard them with emails", nonsense talk of a class action that would surely fail, sending messages to _personal_ Facebook accounts, etc. It's just complete and utter rubbish.
> 
> Yes, get the press involved. Yes, start a campaign if you like (though the Facebook page is only at 136 people; so what does that tell you?). But using common sense, respect and decency will get you further than the stuff I have mentioned.


Have to agree with every word of that

But when they ignore the honey (and they seem to be ignoring everything right now) always a good move to make sure you have some vinegar to hand.


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## sad_tivo_man (Apr 27, 2003)

Pete77 said:


> You really have become a management supporting company lickspittle haven't you Carl.


:up::up::up:


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## speedyrite (May 18, 2002)

Well, it won't be as good as a TiVo, but a Sky+HD box is now coming as far as I'm concerned and I'm ready...


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You really have become a management supporting company lickspittle haven't you Carl.


From where you site Pete, EVERYONE's a management supporting company lickspittle.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

I noticed this message yesterday and it irritated me again. I understand why it is there but it is still sticking salt on a wound to some of us - which I think we're as entitled to express as much as any other opinion.

It is slightly mitigated by the fact that it doesn't jump up into my face when pressing Tivo - IIRC that's a result of one of the hacks or the network interface which means I don't see system messages in that way.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> It is slightly mitigated by the fact that it doesn't jump up into my face when pressing Tivo - IIRC that's a result of one of the hacks or the network interface which means I don't see system messages in that way.


Likewise my Tivo is also hacked with a Cachecard, Tivoweb, DailyMail etc and I find that System Messages are actually much less prominent than revised channel lineup messages on my set up as they don't illuminate the yellow new message indicator icon in the on screen EPG produced by pressing right arrow on the four way Tivo remote rocker switch.

There is also a total limit to the total number of these System Messages that Tivo will store of two so that both of the earlier messages encouraging me to upgrade to hook up with Virgin have now been replaced by these latest two offerings even though I never deleted the original ones. There is no such limit to the number of channel lineup change messages that are retained on the Tivo (or if there is a limit it is so high I have never noticed its operation as you can certainly have 7 or 8 new channel lineup messages waiting after several weeks of Tivo non use due to holiday etc). The only reason I am aware at all of these Virgin created System Messages is because their existence is still reported to me in my DailyMail email with the same level of prominence as a regular Tivo system message about a changed channel lineup.

However in theory Sky has all UK Tivo S1 customers and their postcodes and addresses listed in a database somewhere so Tivo could have given Sky appropriate payment for an up to date copy of that list and then supplied it on to Virgin with postcodes so that Virgin would then only have sent out promotional letters and flyers about the new Virgin Tivo service to those of us living in a Virgin cabled area.

I see a lot of people on here wasting their time sending an email to the [email protected] address (those emails are almost certainly only readable by Sky staff working for Tivo in my opinion and they clearly then aren't bothering to reply to them as they don't feel Tivo and Virgin's deicisons to pull the Tivo S1 service is their responsibility) where they will obviously be ignored but how many people are emailing Neil Berkett (CEO who has given media interviews about the UK Virgin Tivo service) at Virgin or all six of Tivo's main board directors plus Joshua Danowitz (not a main board director) and how many people are posting about the closure of UK Tivo S1 service in the the tivocommunity forums covering the USA. I would suggest that only any of those actions is actually likely to have an impact on Tivo's decision making process and that you may as well hit your head on a large brick wall as email the [email protected] address.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> However in theory Sky has all UK Tivo S1 customers and their postcodes and addresses listed in a database somewhere so Tivo could have given Sky appropriate payment for an up to date copy of that list and then supplied it on to Virgin with postcodes so that Virgin would then only have sent out promotional letters and flyers about the new Virgin Tivo service to those of us living in a Virgin cabled area.


Right. And what about the DPA? Are you sure that the above would not be illegal, as I think it would; though, of course, I'm not 100% certain.



> I see a lot of people on here wasting their time sending an email to the [email protected] address (those emails are almost certainly only readable by Sky staff working for Tivo in my opinion...


More supposition with no basis in fact. Sky staff working for Tivo? That contract ended a while ago now, didn't it?



> ...how many people are emailing Neil Berkett (CEO who has given media interviews about the UK Virgin Tivo service) at Virgin or all six of Tivo's main board directors plus Joshua Danowitz (not a main board director) and how many people are posting about the closure of UK Tivo S1 service in the the tivocommunity forums covering the USA.


Well the Facebook page has only 137 'likes' since it launched however many weeks ago. So I would think the answer to the question is "not that many".


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