# Tivo New Experience (Hydra) Yay/Nay



## blobly (Aug 5, 2009)

I know there are existing threads, but they are long and contain lots of questions and bugs.
Wanted to start a thread that just answers the simple question as of April 2018 - are you happy with the new experience.


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## longrider (Oct 26, 2017)

I said it is better but I have to qualify that statement with saying I did not like the live guide, it made my day when even before Hydra i found out you could turn it off. I also dont use a mini and dont transfer shows to/from a PC. Those 3 things seem to be the biggest issues with Hydra. I had no issue with navigating the new menus but I also dont have 10 years history with TiVo. I just started 2 years ago when I dropped DirecTV


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

blobly said:


> I know there are existing threads, but they are long and contain lots of questions and bugs.
> Wanted to start a thread that just answers the simple question as of April 2018 - are you happy with the new experience.


You forgot the box for I hate polls and for I don't care. I think you can change it.

Yes, I have it.


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## blobly (Aug 5, 2009)

JoeKustra said:


> You forgot the box for I hate polls and for I don't care. I think you can change it.
> 
> Yes, I have it.


I really wanted to start a simple reference to see how people feel about it without reading through 50 pages of posts - a poll is the easiest way to do that


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Reading is fun.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

blobly said:


> I really wanted to start a simple reference to see how people feel about it without reading through 50 pages of posts - a poll is the easiest way to do that


You mean like these polls? 
Poll: Hydra -- Your Thoughts One Week Later

or Encore (Gen3) vs Hydra (Gen4) usage


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

Please add the vote option "This poll is one of many others exactly like it".


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## kokishin (Sep 9, 2014)

I'm ok with the interface. What I'm NOT ok with is that there are channel tuning issues with my Mini (connected via ethernet to a Roamio Pro). The Mini's channel tuning acts flaky sometimes displaying the wrong channel or switching to an existing 30 minute buffer at the beginning of the buffer instead of the end of the buffer. I can get around the issues easily enough but I never had any channel tuning issues with the prior UI. If I could EASILY go back to the prior UI without losing my recordings, I would.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

It also depends on your current usage habits.

-KP


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I was actually thinking of doing a poll to see how the opinion differs from my "Hydra: One Week Later" poll, to see if it was growing on people over time. Doesn't look like it is.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

There are some parts I like and some I don’t, but all in all it’s fine. One thing I don’t like is that you no longer can just hit “play” on a recording in the playlist. You need to first hit select and then select again to play a show - two steps instead of one. In the old interface you could just hit play and it would play. I don’t know why they would make that change.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I was actually thinking of doing a poll to see how the opinion differs from my "Hydra: One Week Later" poll, to see if it was growing on people over time. Doesn't look like it is.


I guess things changed in the last 6 hours...it is now 50/50.


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## johnfasc (Dec 24, 2014)

Can't say hydra is terrible. But definitely like the old live guide better. Much rather see what's on one station for most of the day than having to page right two or three times...then page left to go back to the channel list and start over.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Diana Collins said:


> I guess things changed in the last 6 hours...it is now 50/50.


The One Week Later poll eventually landed at 54% among upgraders. Not much movement. Got my popcorn ready for the spring update that's rolling out.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Got my popcorn ready for the spring update that's rolling out.


Please pass the butter.


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## jason.bottjen (Apr 25, 2018)

I like the new interface just fine. I used the old UI 3 or 4 years. Hated the mini guide/live guide, so I don't miss that.

I also see strange things with the channel numbers and tuning with mini vox devices. I hope they fix that at some point.

Each to their own. It all depends on how you use the interface.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## LedPighp (Apr 25, 2018)

Wow, I’ve haven’t seen such a piece of crap in a long time. Totally non intuitive. When viewing suggestions, it only shows the episode name and not the show title. The crossbar .. no idea what’s currently highlighted and what it’s supposed to do. The guide is a PITA to scroll — I want to scroll by half hours, not 2 hours.

Was a TiVo user since the series 1. Now I’m selling this junk.


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

I liked the other guide better, that is not a big deal. Bet 20 guide accesses a year is about all I use. I have wish lists for keywords like "pilot" find new shows. I do not know what time or channel the vast majority of my programming is on. I use wishlists for programs names so they are not keyed to channels. If a program moves to a different channel I do not have to change anything. Our cable co. is adding and dropping channels all the time. 
If I could switch back and forth between the interfaces I think I would be on the old one.

So as I understand it, there are no new things this does that cannot be done easily or maybe even better in the old system. 

Correct me if I am wrong.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

My wife goes through the guide to find her shows. She goes to her the cooking channels and surfs through the data till the data runs out every night. Just looking to see what’s there. This is not a fun proposition with the hydra guide. She has used wish lists but find this approach more pleasurable.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

LedPighp said:


> Was a TiVo user since the series 1. Now I'm selling this junk.


Overly dramatic much?? Please let us know which solution you go with after you sell your TiVo.


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## blobly (Aug 5, 2009)

would be nice if there was a way to use and test the new interface before installing


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

blobly said:


> would be nice if there was a way to use and test the new interface before installing


Well, if you have a TiVo box and don't care about the recordings on it, simply install Hydra and play away--if you don't like Hydra, roll back to the Gen3 interface (in the course of which, recordings will be erased). And if you want to save your recordings, transfer them to another TiVo box or to your PC before rolling back.

Or, purchase a new TiVo box directly from TiVo (free delivery) and try it out. If you decide that the new box and Hydra are not for you, return the box (free return shipping) for a full refund under TiVo's 30-day-satisfaction-guaranteed policy.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I switched one TiVo to Hydra, when it was first available last Autumn, as a test. My plan was to use it for a couple of weeks before deciding about my other TiVos. But I loved it so much that later that day I was upgrading the rest of my TiVos to Hydra.

Now while there are still some bugs with Hydra, Overall I still love it. I hate using the HDUI now on my GFs TiVos when I visit. She is not prone to change only switched to the HDUI when I changed out her S3 TiVos for Roamios in the last year or so. One day I hope she will switch to Hydra. But I'm not about to force it on her.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

It's horrible. We will be reverting shortly. (I wouldn't have done it willingly. But we had a lightning strike kill our Roamio Pro and the replacement TiVo sent us already had it installed.) Since we lost all shows anyway, it's not a big deal to watch the few shows we have and start over. 

That said, I haven't read ... What does hydra give us that we should WANT to keep it?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

sushikitten said:


> It's horrible. We will be reverting shortly. (I wouldn't have done it willingly. But we had a lightning strike kill our Roamio Pro and the replacement TiVo sent us already had it installed.) Since we lost all shows anyway, it's not a big deal to watch the few shows we have and start over.
> 
> That said, I haven't read ... What does hydra give us that we should WANT to keep it?


You need Hydra to use IFTTT for autoskip, but I'm blanking on any other features that are Hydra exclusive. Pretty pictures?

Oh! Voice Control, but I never use it. Is that on Roamios?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

realityboy said:


> Oh! Voice Control, but I never use it. Is that on Roamios?


VOX voice control is available on any Hydra'd box (BOLT, Roamio or Mini) that has a VOX Remote paired via Bluetooth (with Roamios and v1 & v2 Minis requiring a Bluetooth USB dongle to add the necessary BT communication).

Other Hydra features/fixes:
. UI menu transitions without Video Window audio or video dropouts
. Improved search via VOX voice search
? Improved Netflix startup on Roamios?


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

realityboy said:


> You need Hydra to use IFTTT for autoskip, but I'm blanking on any other features that are Hydra exclusive. Pretty pictures?
> 
> Oh! Voice Control, but I never use it. Is that on Roamios?


How do I find out about using IFTTT? Does it skip without a button push?


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

johnd01 said:


> How do I find out about using IFTTT? Does it skip without a button push?


It does. I remember it was fairly easy to setup if you're using Hydra. There are a few threads on it:

IFTTT Apps for Tivo


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

Thank you realityboy


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

johnd01 said:


> How do I find out about using IFTTT? Does it skip without a button push?


You have options: with Hydra, you can set it to autoskip, or you can set it to skip when you tell it to. Easy to set up and use once you get the hang of the IFTTT system. But do note that the system isn't foolproof--sometimes the skip will be missed, or may occur 5 minutes later. 

A favorite with IFTTT: find my remote.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

sushikitten said:


> That said, I haven't read ... What does hydra give us that we should WANT to keep it?


Quarterly software updates. TE3 is *End-of-lifed *and will no longer receive software updates other than bug patches.

There's nothing wrong with staying with TE3. It's come a long way since it's initial release with the Premiere in 2010. TE3 represents over 8 years of software updates.

Hydra, like all new software, wasn't going to be "better" initially than it's predecessor TE3 anymore than TE3 was better initially than TE2. That's just not how software works.

But for the 99.8% of normal DVR users, for whom a DVR is just a better cable box, Hydra is perfectly fine.


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

I wish I could do "tivo" "tivo" and be back at the last show I was watching in now playing.
Having to start at the top of a year's worth of shows make for a lot of scrolling.


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

Binge viewing is gone as well. I turned off all the graphics I could. Sometimes I can sort a folder by episode and sometimes I cannot. I have not figured out the difference.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> VOX voice control is available on any Hydra'd box (BOLT, Roamio or Mini) that has a VOX Remote paired via Bluetooth (with Roamios and v1 & v2 Minis requiring a Bluetooth USB dongle to add the necessary BT communication).
> 
> Other Hydra features/fixes:
> . UI menu transitions without Video Window audio or video dropouts
> ...


Netflix on the Bolt starts up immediately with the classic Tivo interface without Hydra. So that is not a reason to use the horrible (IMO) Hydra interface.


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

I do not like using any of the streaming apps. I have a Tivo so I can quick mode, FF, SM, frame at a time, wish I could RSM and R frame at a time. Would be nice to have the shows moved into a large buffer so Tivo could work its magic. Till then I will stick almost exclusively to what on the disks. I do have a Roku, Hulu and prime account but I do not think I average more than 10 hours a year on them total.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

CloudAtlas said:


> TE3 is *End-of-lifed *and will no longer receive software updates other than bug patches.


Cite?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

stile99 said:


> Cite?


TiVo Ted indicated this in one of his posts on Hydra versus gen3 (that all the new development effort was going to be on Hydra). The Alexa and IFFTTT updates will probably be the last new feature to expect on gen3.

Scott


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

stile99 said:


> Cite?


One could consider Alexa a bug fix. It depends how you define bug I guess.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

johnd01 said:


> Binge viewing is gone as well. I turned off all the graphics I could. Sometimes I can sort a folder by episode and sometimes I cannot. I have not figured out the difference.


You can sort by date or by episode. And it remembers the selection for each show.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> TiVo Ted indicated this in one of his posts on Hydra versus gen3 (that all the new development effort was going to be on Hydra). The Alexa and IFFTTT updates will probably be the last new feature to expect on gen3.
> 
> Scott


The claim was made that TE3 is EOL and will receive no updates other than bug fixes, and yet there's a thread discussing an update to TE3 on the front page of this very forum. I don't recall Ted saying that TE3 will no longer be updated, which is why I asked for a cite. I do recall him saying primary focus would be on Hydra, but not exclusive. I'm not attempting to be argumentative, I would really like a clarification.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

stile99 said:


> I'm not attempting to be argumentative, I would really like a clarification.


No argument intended, but I think it will depend if 1) it's easy or 2) it makes $$ sense.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

johnd01 said:


> How do I find out about using IFTTT? Does it skip without a button push?


Yes, with varying levels of success. It's still considered beta software.

>This post< has some helpful links to get started.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

johnd01 said:


> ... wish I could RSM and R frame at a time.


It's possible that you *can* do one of those, depending on what the abbreviations mean.

The 'Channel Up' button jumps you to the next program segment for a SkipMode-enabled recording, while 'Channel Down' jumps you back to the previous program segment start. (RSM ? Reverse SkipMode)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

bobfrank said:


> Netflix on the Bolt starts up immediately with the classic Tivo interface without Hydra. So that is not a reason to use the horrible (IMO) Hydra interface.


Yes, BOLT functionality is known, which is why the bullet was scoped to Roamios; and citing BOLT functionality doesn't answer the question.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> You have options: with Hydra, you can set it to autoskip, or you can set it to skip *when you tell it to*.


Hands-free voice control skip currently requires Alexa, or IFTTT integrated with Alexa, Google Home or another compatible tech butler.

AutoSkip can be setup with just IFTTT for a compatible TiVo box (which, at present, must be running Hydra).


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

We had Hydra installed when we re-hooked up our Tivo(s). A lot to like, but enough there that I wasn't quite comfortable with navigation wise so we downgraded. Looking forward to a bit more functionality to be added.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Hands-free voice control skip currently requires Alexa, or IFTTT integrated with Alexa, Google Home *or another compatible tech butler*.
> 
> AutoSkip can be setup with just IFTTT for a compatible TiVo box (which, at present, must be running Hydra).


Yep--and nicely, IFTTT with voice-control skip also can be controlled using Cortana, for Windows 10 users with a tablet/laptop/desktop near their television, as well as, I believe, smartphone users running the Cortana app (depending on the phone, the app may need to be up and running). A nice way to get/try hands-free voice skip capability without spending or buying anything further (if one already has Win10/Cortana ability nearby), as well as for TiVo Gen3 UI users or those wanting manual voice skip rather than autoskip.


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Yes, BOLT functionality is known, which is why the bullet was scoped to Roamios; and citing BOLT functionality doesn't answer the question.


Oops. I read too fast and missed the Roamio limitation. No excuse.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I'm getting ready to downgrade right now. I have like 100 OPs set up and so I don't lose them I am transferring them to another Tivo, but it's been "updating" for 10 minutes so I don't hold out hope that that's even going to work. --> OMG, I left the page to check something else, and that apparently stopped the updating? WTF? 

For who knows what reason, it has been deleting shows...but nothing appears in the Recently Deleted folder. I know recordings were there because I saw them--and hubby and I sat down to watch the Survivor finale last week and watched the two-hour show then I wanted to watch the reunion show and he didn't. We came back to it a few days later and it was just GONE. Not in deleted, just gone. I thought maybe it hadn't recorded but we both saw it there. I had like six eps of Ellen (it records daily) but today? None. And none in deleted. Sesame Street? Was there, now gone. Not ONE SINGLE show we have set to record is actually there. I checked online and it doesn't make sense - it says a show was recorded at 7pm then deleted at 7pm. And I didn't touch anything. Even if it somehow borked the KUID settings, there should still be ONE show there...plus they should all be in the deleted folder.


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## johnd01 (Dec 17, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> You can sort by date or by episode. And it remembers the selection for each show.


On my Tivo there are times when a folder will sort by episode or date and other times a folder will sort by name and date. I am talking about inside the folder. Episode does not apply when sorting folders. 
If the folder is a wish list folder episode is not available, only date and name. I switched to using wishlist because the standard serch was storing channel numbers as part of the season pass. Not sure if that is the case anymore.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

johnd01 said:


> On my Tivo there are times when a folder will sort by episode or date and other times a folder will sort by name and date. I am talking about inside the folder. Episode does not apply when sorting folders.
> If the folder is a wish list folder episode is not available, only date and name. I switched to using wishlist because the standard serch was storing channel numbers as part of the season pass. Not sure if that is the case anymore.


From my experience with switching providers in the past, channel numbers were always stored with the Season PAsses. Unless like with One Passes when you have it set for All channels.

When I had switched providers the channel numbers stayed with the Season Pass. Even though it correctly recorded from the new channel number on a different provider. I would replace the Season pass with a new one for the new channel number. SInce I didn't like seeing a Season PAss with the wrong channel number.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

CloudAtlas said:


> There's nothing wrong with staying with TE3. It's come a long way since it's initial release with the Premiere in 2010. TE3 represents over 8 years of software updates.
> 
> Hydra, like all new software, wasn't going to be "better" initially than it's predecessor TE3 anymore than TE3 was better initially than TE2. That's just not how software works.
> 
> But for the 99.8% of normal DVR users, for whom a DVR is just a better cable box, Hydra is perfectly fine.


This thread came to life Again?

Yes, a long and agitating time to fix the problems with TE3. C133, servers and more. I shudder to think what was going on before TE3!

Really only seems to be one or two updates that only fixed some bugs. Very slow development and even though I want some of the features that are in it that I have been asking for years, it is doubtful I will ever go without the Live Guide. I do not understand why Tivo, Inc is so stubborn with this one thing. How hard could it be???


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sushikitten said:


> I have like 100 OPs set up and so I don't lose them I am transferring them to another Tivo


If you're talking about the OnePasses (fka Season Passes), you can use KMTTG to back them up and then restore post-downgrade.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> If you're talking about the OnePasses (fka Season Passes), you can use KMTTG to back them up and then restore post-downgrade.


That was too much work since we don't already have KMTTG afaik. I just dictated the list to a note then added then back in via the app. Of course we lost some that aren't currently available but I also cut out about 40 we didn't need.

It's soooo nice to have to old menus back.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

samccfl99 said:


> Really only seems to be one or two updates that only fixed some bugs. Very slow development and even though I want some of the features that are in it that I have been asking for years, it is doubtful I will ever go without the Live Guide.


 The 21.8.1 update to Hydra was a lot more than a bug fix. It turned a very buggy and at times unuseable initial release (21.7.2) into a solid offering with updated UI. It's just night and day. The mini-guide update is very live-guide-like.

I lost track of how many RC patches there were for 21.7.2 but 21.8.1 (released last month) is still on its initial RC6.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

CloudAtlas said:


> The 21.8.1 update to Hydra was a lot more than a bug fix. It turned a very buggy and at times unuseable initial release (21.7.2) into a solid offering with updated UI. It's just night and day. The mini-guide update is very live-guide-like.
> 
> I lost track of how many RC patches there were for 21.7.2 but 21.8.2 (released last month) is still on its initial RC6.


Well I am glad you are happy with it. I have over 1200 recordings on 2 tivos and I do not want to fool around with it because as you know, there is no way back. Let's see what they can do by Xmas. Of what year, I do not know, being it took them at least for me, over 5 years to get TE3 where it is today. I don't need any extra key presses or Only folders and no playing everything in a group and NO COMPLETE LIVE GUIDE and on and on and on...I still watch and keep track, looks like there have been a *few* releases including the initial release...21.7.2.RC8-9-11-12 and 21.8.1.RC6. Did I miss any (I got these from the threads)?

EDIT: and I just saw this post about "the guide"...hmmmmm?
Hydra Guide Bug

*ENJOY!*


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

realityboy said:


> You need Hydra to use IFTTT for autoskip, but I'm blanking on any other features that are Hydra exclusive. Pretty pictures?
> 
> Oh! Voice Control, but I never use it. Is that on Roamios?[/QUOTE
> The Vox microphone is only on Hydra. Is that an important thing? Well it may be. I discovered that the Vox will find old TV shows and movies not currently in the guide or streaming, and allow you to make a onepass or bookmark for them, where the type-in search will not find the programs.


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

The Vox microphone is only on Hydra. Is that an important thing? Well it may be. I discovered that the Vox will find old TV shows and movies not currently in the guide or streaming, and allow you to make a onepass or bookmark for them, where the type-in search will not find the programs.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

samccfl99 said:


> Well I am glad you are happy with it.
> 
> ...I still watch and keep track, looks like there have been a *few* releases including the initial release...21.7.2.RC8-9-11-12 and 21.8.1.RC6. Did I miss any (I got these from the threads)?


I'm happy with Hydra 21.8.2 as it works and I'm now familiar with it. TE3 people should just stick with TE3 and stop all the drama.

There's been *one* Hydra quarterly software release update (Hydra 21.8.1). Hydra 21.7.2 had numerous minor Release Candidate (RC) patches to squash showstopper bugs. You forgot RC19 which you complained about.


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## sd2528 (Nov 5, 2006)

CloudAtlas said:


> I'm happy with Hydra 21.8.2 as it works and I'm now familiar with it. TE3 people should just stick with TE3 and stop all the drama.


If it had all the same features of TE3 I'd use Hydra and get used to it over time. But there are major features that have been a core of of TiVo for a decade that are broken in hydra.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

CloudAtlas said:


> TE3 people should just stick with TE3 and stop all the drama.


I'll do you one better. TiVo should just fix the bloody thing, and add back missing features, some of which Ted has specifically said were not deliberately removed, just forgotten about.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

stile99 said:


> I'll do you one better. TiVo should just fix the bloody thing, and add back missing features, some of which Ted has specifically said were not deliberately removed, just forgotten about.


Unfortunately getting the Hydra software stable and performing well was a higher priority. And with last months quarterly(?) update they succeeded. Obviously future updates will add missing and new features. That's how software works otherwise software development would stop at version 1.0.

In the meantime you have TE3


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

CloudAtlas said:


> Unfortunately getting the Hydra software stable and performing well was a higher priority. And with last months quarterly(?) update they succeeded. Obviously future updates will add missing and new features. That's how software works otherwise software development would stop at version 1.0.
> 
> In the meantime you have TE3


Correction: How software works is the development and testing is done BEFORE the release.

Well, to be fair, that's how it used to/is supposed to work. Rovi isn't the only one intentionally sending out software that is known not to work with the intention of correcting it in a .x release. As has been said before, had this happened, and last month's update been the first released, this would be a MUCH quieter forum.


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## John Meno (Nov 21, 2017)

I'm sorry but TIVO has not been quick to fix any of these problems. Since switching to HYDRA none of the initial issues have been fixed. You still cannot give :up::thumbsdown: with your recorded shows. You still cannot delete programs nearly as fast as the old software. It takes way to long to delete shows. This is mind-numbingly annoying especially now that the suggestions are useless! Now the TIVO records the absolute worst things on earth and deleting them is aweful! On top of that to give the shows it keeps recording that I have zero interest in a :thumbsdown:, I have to find the show in a search or the guide to give it the much deserved :thumbsdown:. I'm close to doing away with suggestions. This is sad as this is the most unique feature that TIVO has offered since the beginning.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

stile99 said:


> Correction: How software works is the development and testing is done BEFORE the release.
> 
> Well, to be fair, that's how it used to/is supposed to work. Rovi isn't the only one intentionally sending out software that is known not to work with the intention of correcting it in a .x release. As has been said before, had this happened, and last month's update been the first released, this would be a MUCH quieter forum.


That's a bit harsh. Given the permutations of usage and installations and interactions, a dvr is a very difficult item to 100% test. That's why every dvr known to man has had bugs and took time to get fully stable unless it is in a closed system (like a cable system) and even then there have been issues or limitations.

At any rate, hydra has been pretty stable.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

John Meno said:


> You still cannot give :up::thumbsdown: with your recorded shows.


That does what? LOL (and I have had Tivo since 2012). Honestly, I do not know much about "the thumbs" (except to reboot).


John Meno said:


> You still cannot delete programs nearly as fast as the old software. It takes way to long to delete shows.


Now this I have not seen before. Really? I thought that everyone says everything runs faster.


John Meno said:


> I'm close to doing away with suggestions. This is sad as this is the most unique feature that TIVO has offered since the beginning.


What's Suggestions??? 
I know what I like to watch and always did. I don't even have time to watch what I like!

You don't think that QM + SM and all tuners buffering are some of the most unique features?! 

I originally went to Tivo because Comcast would not activate the SATA port for extra hard drive space. I really did not know much about it except it had more than 320GB...LOL.

I am just a Simpleton...


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## John Meno (Nov 21, 2017)

samccfl99 said:


> That does what? LOL (and I have had Tivo since 2012). Honestly, I do not know much about "the thumbs" (except to reboot).
> 
> Now this I have not seen before. Really? I thought that everyone says everything runs faster.
> 
> ...


I'm one of the many who like the suggestions. I know what I like as well but for many years up till now, the suggestions did catch occasional shows that I missed. Until they fix it those days are over.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

John Meno said:


> I'm sorry but TIVO has not been quick to fix any of these problems. Since switching to HYDRA none of the initial issues have been fixed. You still cannot give :up::thumbsdown: with your recorded shows. You still cannot delete programs nearly as fast as the old software. It takes way to long to delete shows. ..............


??? I delete my shows with Hydra just as quick as I did before. I hit the clear button and poof, it's gone, just like before. I can do it individually or with an entire folder of shows. It takes the same amount of time as before.


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## John Meno (Nov 21, 2017)

aaronwt said:


> ??? I delete my shows with Hydra just as quick as I did before. I hit the clear button and poof, it's gone, just like before. I can do it individually or with an entire folder of shows. It takes the same amount of time as before.


First it takes me years to discover the zoom button. Now I find that I've been wasting time in cycling through the options and clicking delete instead of hitting the clear button! :tired:


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

John Meno said:


> First it takes me years to discover the zoom button. Now I find that I've been wasting time in cycling through the options and clicking delete instead of hitting the clear button! :tired:


Believe it or not, it is in the user documentation on the TiVo webpage.


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

John Meno said:


> I'm sorry but TIVO has not been quick to fix any of these problems. Since switching to HYDRA none of the initial issues have been fixed. You still cannot give :up::thumbsdown: with your recorded shows. You still cannot delete programs nearly as fast as the old software. It takes way to long to delete shows. This is mind-numbingly annoying especially now that the suggestions are useless! Now the TIVO records the absolute worst things on earth and deleting them is aweful! On top of that to give the shows it keeps recording that I have zero interest in a :thumbsdown:, I have to find the show in a search or the guide to give it the much deserved :thumbsdown:. I'm close to doing away with suggestions. This is sad as this is the most unique feature that TIVO has offered since the beginning.


As far as deleting shows, most software contains an Edit button and allows you to select different items to delete and pressing the OK button to do it in one swoop.
We should be able to delete shows in all different folders by checking them and pressing a single Delete button. Why is TiVo so behind?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Furmaniac said:


> As far as deleting shows, most software contains an Edit button and allows you to select different items to delete and pressing the OK button to do it in one swoop.
> We should be able to delete shows in all different folders by checking them and pressing a single Delete button. Why is TiVo so behind?


How many DVR's allow you to do this?

Scott


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## Furmaniac (Apr 3, 2018)

HerronScott said:


> How many DVR's allow you to do this?
> 
> Scott


The Dish 622 box and 722 box do this.
They also do a ton of things that TiVo doesn't do: 
• You can make user-generated folders for any program, so you can keep game shows in a game show folder, favorite actresses in an Actress folder and Junior can have his own shows in his own folder. We only have such folders for wishlists.
• When you set up a recording on Dish, it's not just new or new and reruns... it's also Monday through Friday, weekly, or daily. We have to make a manual recording work-around to do that.
• The guide is customizable so that you can choose to have up to 3 hours showing with seven Rows, each row using double spacing when necessary. 
• You can move around the guide much more easily than with Tivo by using numeric key presses on the remote. The only key press we have is to go ahead or back a day. We need to go to a more complicated A-menu to do this with Tivo.
• You can add the name of a program on their equivalent of the My Shows screen, so if you recorded Saturday Night Live, you can edit it to say 'SNL w/Jennifer Aniston' so you know that right away.
• For the Guide, Dish has more than All Channels, selected channels and favorites. They have up to five different favorites that you can make. You can have one for whatever channels you want to put in it or use them for different family members.
• They used to have Dish Pass which was their equivalent of wishlists. Their Hopper DVR doesn't feature it because TiVo had sued them about 20 years ago, but it's still there on the older boxes. It even allows you to select a channel for the wishlist.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

HerronScott said:


> How many DVR's allow you to do this?


I think the better question is how many DVR's should be bothered to allow such...  I have used TiVo off and on since 2000 (mostly on) and have had virtually zero reasons to delete shows outside of right after viewing... the old _Less is More_ is often better.

Although I can remember one time when I decided not to view a series and I deleted all of the recordings at once. Much easier than having to flag individual episodes or whatnot.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Furmaniac said:


> As far as deleting shows, most software contains an Edit button and allows you to select different items to delete and pressing the OK button to do it in one swoop.





Furmaniac said:


> The Dish 622 box and 722 box do this.


Any other examples, 'cause that would seem to be "one other DVR" rather than "most." (Though TiVo's 'Clear' button would seem to be far more efficient.)

And, yep, there are plenty of ways in which TiVo software could be better.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

Furmaniac said:


> As far as deleting shows, most software contains an Edit button and allows you to select different items to delete and pressing the OK button to do it in one swoop.
> We should be able to delete shows in all different folders by checking them and pressing a single Delete button. Why is TiVo so behind?


I'm sorry but how would that be quicker/easier than using TiVo's clear button? The TiVo method actually bypasses the "select" step and if you make an error you can always restore from Recently Deleted.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

John Meno said:


> First it takes me years to discover the zoom button. Now I find that I've been wasting time in cycling through the options and clicking delete instead of hitting the clear button! :tired:


It took me a couple of years before I knew about the Clear button also. Made me happy. No problem with Deleting using it since it does not ask for confirmation, but they never got rid of the confirmation in TDL unfortunately. Hmmm, I wonder if the Zoom button works the same way on TE4? Oh well.

Still no TE4 for me (I do not have a free host to try it with and blow up! ).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

humbb said:


> I'm sorry but how would that be quicker/easier than using TiVo's clear button? The TiVo method actually bypasses the "select" step and if you make an error you can always restore from Recently Deleted.


It works that you can select a bunch of episodes or shows. Confirm then delete them in bulk. It is a quick method if you are selectively deleting multiple items. Mostly because it gives you clear visual feedback. Directv had it. I used it sparingly. I can see its value but would not prioritize it as a high need.

If you really want to do this, both the app and online can do it. I find that sufficient.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

samccfl99 said:


> It took me a couple of years before I knew about the Clear button also. Made me happy. No problem with Deleting using it since it does not ask for confirmation, but they never got rid of the confirmation in TDL unfortunately. Hmmm, I wonder if the Zoom button works the same way on TE4? Oh well.
> 
> Still no TE4 for me (I do not have a free host to try it with and blow up! ).


There is no zoom button in Hydra. It may be labeled as such but that is not what it does. It is more of a clear screen.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

TonyD79 said:


> There is no zoom button in Hydra. It may be labeled as such but that is not what it does. It is more of a clear screen.


I do not understand what Clear Screen means in relation to a Tivo. So I assume there must be a way to change from Panel to Zoom? If there are any 4:3 shows (a very few channels still), then it needs to be in Panel. Also I use Zoom mode to watch stuff like on Cspan or other non-HD channels that come in the rectangular size screen with the border. I usually keep it in Zoom because most channels are HD and the mode does not matter.

Also, I use the Zoom button to go back to a recording that is currently playing when temporarily in TC. That's how I figured out how to use it in the beginning. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, especially when it concerns a DVR that you have been using for 6 years...We shall see.

Thanks for that tidbit.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

samccfl99 said:


> So I assume there must be a way to change from Panel to Zoom?


Pressing the INFO key while watching Live or Recorded TV will give you a menu of options at the bottom of the screen, including (where appropriate) your panel settings.



samccfl99 said:


> Also, I use the Zoom button to go back to a recording that is currently playing when temporarily in TC.


That still works. In many instances zoom simply returns you to the last screen or menu. While it takes a little getting used to the change, I generally prefer the new functionality.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Megamind said:


> Pressing the INFO key while watching Live or Recorded TV will give you a menu of options at the bottom of the screen, including (where appropriate) your panel settings.
> 
> That still works. In many instances zoom simply returns you to the last screen or menu. While it takes a little getting used to the change, I generally prefer the new functionality.


Thanks for the follow up. I was busy.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

samccfl99 said:


> I do not understand what Clear Screen means in relation to a Tivo. So I assume there must be a way to change from Panel to Zoom? If there are any 4:3 shows (a very few channels still), then it needs to be in Panel. Also I use Zoom mode to watch stuff like on Cspan or other non-HD channels that come in the rectangular size screen with the border. I usually keep it in Zoom because most channels are HD and the mode does not matter.
> 
> Also, I use the Zoom button to go back to a recording that is currently playing when temporarily in TC. That's how I figured out how to use it in the beginning. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, especially when it concerns a DVR that you have been using for 6 years...We shall see.
> 
> Thanks for that tidbit.


You hit the info button while watching a program, and there will be an option to change the panel mode.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

*TiVo Experience 4: Other Features

Compatibility*

For all Series 1-3 Remotes (without the A, B, C, D buttons) and the original Slide Remote, *ZOOM *will work as '*EXIT' *if your Unified Entertainment System/ DVR is running the New TiVo Experience.
Series 4 and original TiVo Mini Remotes (has the A, B, C, D buttons without *BACK*), *ZOOM* will act as '*BACK'* on the New TiVo Experience.
Series 5, 6, VOX, and Slide Pro Remotes already have a *'BACK*' button.

*Learning Guides & Videos
*
The TIVO Experience Viewers Guide PDF
TE4 How To


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## McNublette (Aug 9, 2006)

I've been rolling on tivo for approximately twelve years now. This has really been my only DVR experience and I will continue to enjoy this service and it's products as I personally feel that this device is hands down the best DVR you can get for cable or OTA. Now that i've set the precedent that I'm absolutely a fan boy.. person.. (it's 2019), either I will continue to gush or throw out a but (wall of thorns).

Well neither. I like this hardware but the software is rather apple-ish. SO, what do I mean!?

I have had all the TIVO's, and before the mini's i would use the tivo desktop (crappy app). However, regardless of the system upgrades I could really use my TIVO's still they died, like literally. Once I got to the tivo premier, i started realizing i could mod these tivos. So by the time I got to the Roamio, i had replaced drives and fans cause i'm a PC nerd. Well, after the mini's I was in tall cotton, laughing at all my relatives and friends who had multiple dvr's from comcast and was paying through the face to have it! Fast forward to Hydra - well Hydra is hit or miss for the user, I personally hated it, and still not sure about a few things, but I've grown to like it. But that's not the problem, the problem is my older tivo minis and that dumb amazon prime app.

HARDWARE
The older mini's run slow with the hydra, I find myself rebooting at least once a day if im watching it or if I have house guests. It seems to me that the newer software is not optimized for the older hardware or, simply the older hardware cannot keep up. I have two mini's that do this when before I rarely had to reboot them. I recently picked up a new TIVO mini vox - and the experience is night and day, like ti83 vs cassio watch calc. Yeah i can type out 80085 on them both, but the other will play a dumbed down version of mario bros! So in this, I can see the "apple-fication" of these devices. I can't hate, tho, these things are old.

SOFTWARE
alluding to the problem above, I've had the most awful time with these apps:

HBOGO
Amazon Prime

Now i'll be honest, I cannot get HBOGO to work. So I can't vouch for the app entirely, but I will toss some shade on the fact that, even though I have HBO through my cell provider, they do not cross talk with 'comcast' and there is some legal crap around why tivo and at&T don't play nice. I'm sorry, if im paying for hbo i should be able to watch hbo regardless of what platform I choose to view it on. PERIOD

Now for Amazon - this is the problem in my household. I recently got engaged and we are doing the "consolidate stuffs" and what not. So my lady loves amazon prime, now that app was terrible before hydra and is just as bad after, to the point where it just shuts down and or reboots the tivo mini. (the old ones, the new one is just fine) This issue is forcing me to refresh my tivo mini's cause the wife is not at all pleased as she does her thing in one of these rooms with the older mini.

Back to hardware - these minis are 180 but the new bolt is 200. That's just silly, these things should be around the 120 mark!

TLR

I like tivo and wish them to live long and prosper. But they need better QA as their future is dependent on quality user experience as more and more niche devices are created (roku/sling) that threaten Tivo's relevance. Once again - shameless plug, TIVO if you are reading, i have over 20 years exp in doing QA for software development! I started my career testing video games out of highschool and now i'm a dev-ops manger. So if you needs some assistance in making a better product! hit me up!


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## siratfus (Oct 3, 2008)

Question...

What will happen in terms of User Interface/software, if I add a mini vox to my roamio plus?

A. All devices including the Vox will run on the old software same as Roamio.
B. All devices will remain to have the old user interface, except the Vox will have hydra.
C. All devices will now be on hydra.

I'm thinking of picking up a Vox, but I'm hearing hydra is clunky for the old minis. So I might not want a vox if all my devices have to be using hydra. But if only the vox requires hydra and all else stays the same, then I'll get it. Otherwise, I'll just buy another old tivo mini.

Please advise. Thanks!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

siratfus said:


> Question...
> 
> What will happen in terms of User Interface/software, if I add a mini vox to my roamio plus?
> 
> ...


You get to choose: the Mini will follow the software/user interface used on the master TiVo box, the Roamio Plus.


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## siratfus (Oct 3, 2008)

Mikeguy said:


> You get to choose: the Mini will follow the software/user interface used on the master TiVo box, the Roamio Plus.


Cool, thanks! Safe to buy used? How about used units that weres doing Hydra with previous owner? Would those still follow my roamio plus older software?


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I know this has been asked and answered...but ... going from te3 to Hydra, will I keep my recordings?


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

mattyro7878 said:


> I know this has been asked and answered...but ... going from te3 to Hydra, will I keep my recordings?


Yes.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

siratfus said:


> Cool, thanks! Safe to buy used? How about used units that weres doing Hydra with previous owner? Would those still follow my roamio plus older software?


As far as I am aware, regardless of how a Mini had been used previously, it will follow the software/UI of the current master TiVo box, and so there should be no worries there. If I'm remembering correctly, there have been reports of some idiosyncratic situations, but they definitely have been exactly that.

Generally safe to buy used, it seems to me, with the caveats for all used devices. (Personally, I like eBay and its 30-day guarantee on a purchase--gives you a chance to check the device out. I wonder about a more anonymous Craigslist purchase: can you really test a device out when you meet the seller, and if the device has an issue when you in fact can test it, do you have the seller's contact info./what if the seller won't cooperate/etc.) The only special matter I can recall: earlier on, one needed separately to buy a TiVo subscription along with a Mini--TiVo later dropped that and Mini devices automatically came with a subscription. I'd be sure that a device I'm buying includes the subscription. (Note: even with the earlier units, I have read here that one can contact TiVo and get the subscription, and I believe that this can be free or there is a way to get it without cost.)


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Well I made the jump to Mira. Not bad don't regret it. Actually like the Grid guide I can see it better in Black/White than the Grid Guide with T3. Would ai like to see the Live Guide return yes but it's not killing me. One issue I have is that I dont like how the bottom info banner pops up when a new programming is starting on Live TV. Any way to disable this in settings?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

timstack8969 said:


> One issue I have is that I dont like how the bottom info banner pops up when a new programming is starting on Live TV.


I'm not sure this doesn't happen on TE3 boxes, too, at least when watching live TV programming. I dimly recall this as a change of behavior (bug) introduced a year+ ago.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Worth sharing, for PC transfer holdouts. Tighter streaming integration might be an acceptable middle ground for some folks. (A PLEX folder in My Shows with bookmarks would be kinda cool.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Worth sharing, for PC transfer holdouts. Tighter streaming integration might be an acceptable middle ground for some folks. (A PLEX folder in My Shows with bookmarks would be kinda cool.)
> 
> View attachment 40547


The FB thread, FWIW.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Pairing your remote-Unknown but my remote is working fine and believe Paired. I do not have a voice remote but us6a TiVo Bolt+.Is this a bug or only used for Vox voice remotes? Also what about the remote firmware is also just for Voice remotes?


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## davetroup (Aug 15, 2004)

I have a Roamio OTA and a Mini, still running TE3. I briefly tried TE4 when it was first released — I didn’t have many recordings at the time. It was slow and buggy and missing features present in TE3, and I didn’t love the UI, so I went back to TE3 and have stuck with it. I’m a Tivo user for nearly 20 years and was fine with the old UI.

But now with the latest TE4 update rolling out, I’m wondering if it is finally time to move to TE4. The problem, of course, is that it’s esssntially a one-way trip... I have lots of recordings now, and if I move to TE4, there's no easy way to go back without losing all of my content, which is not really an option I’d consider.

This thread is from a year ago asking people what they think of Hydra, and at that time, more people voted negatively than positively. But I feel like, from reading various opinions here and elsewhere, that may have changed over the last year. Will I be sorry if I make the jump? Is it going to be slower on my Roamio than TE3?

I almost never watch live TV and rarely use the guide, so I don’t care about the change in guide format.

It’s clear that TiVo isn’t going to put any time or effort into TE3, and perhaps they’ll force folks to upgrade at some point. But maybe it’s time to stop resisting and make the move? Thoughts?

(I’m amused that the forum labels me a “new member” even though I’ve been a member of this forum since 2004!)


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

davetroup said:


> Is it going to be slower on my Roamio than TE3?


I just migrated by Roamio OTA to TE4 and so far it seems quite a bit faster than TE3.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

davetroup, what features are “missing” if you don’t care about love guide. What you are looking for depends on if you would like hydra. TiVo says majority have switched so the noise here is not really indicative of what people think about the interface.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

davetroup said:


> It was slow and buggy and missing features present in TE3





TonyD79 said:


> what features are "missing" if you don't care about love Live guide. What you are looking for depends on if you would like hydra.



^^What he asked/said.^^

The reliability of other people's opinions as to whether you would find TE4 acceptable is dependent on them understanding what features, critical or missing, most concerned you and played a part in your previous rollback decision.


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## davetroup (Aug 15, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> ^^What he asked/said.^^
> 
> The reliability of other people's opinions as to whether you would find TE4 acceptable is dependent on them understanding what features, critical or missing, most concerned you and played a part in your previous rollback decision.


To be honest, I can't remember what was missing when I first (briefly) tried TE4. It was at least a couple of years ago and, at the time, there was lots of negative sentiment here about the change. I remember being left with the impression that it was a step backwards.

Obviously a lot of time had passed and the software has evolved and, hopefully, improved. If the vast majority of folks have moved to TE4 now and are happy with it, probably I will be too. But since there's essentially no turning back after upgrading, I wanted to make sure there weren't any big issues which would leave me regretting having switched.

I'm getting the feeling that the tide has turned and that I'd better upgrade before I start to feel like a dinosaur.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

davetroup said:


> I'm getting the feeling that the tide has turned and that I'd better upgrade before I start to feel like a dinosaur.


I was reluctant to try TE4 at first but I'm glad I did. I've had a couple minor hiccups but other than that it has been working fine. The auto commercial skip is what finally pushed me to upgrade. I think if you want to see any new features you will have to upgrade at some point. I doubt TE3 is going to see anything new.


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## XIBM (Mar 9, 2013)

From what I hear, suggestions do not work on TE4


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

davetroup said:


> I'm getting the feeling that the tide has turned and that I'd better upgrade before I start to feel like a dinosaur.


Being like a dinosaur is what your existing recordings will be if you make the jump to TE4 and find it unacceptable, and feel the need to rollback to TE3.


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## davetroup (Aug 15, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> Being like a dinosaur is what your existing recordings will be if you make the jump to TE4 and find it unacceptable, and feel the need to rollback to TE3.


Yeah, that's my fear. So I'm trying to figure out if my fear is still rational or if there's no real basis for it any more. A couple of years ago, there were enough deficiencies that I felt like it was rational not to make the jump, but I'm feeling like that may no longer be the case.

As for suggestions... I thought Tivo suggestions were a fantastic feature 20 years ago when the technology rolled out. There was a lot less quality television back then, and a lot more times when there was nothing recorded and I appreciated the nudge toward programming I might like.

But we are living in content nirvana these days, there is WAY too much quality content being made, and the problem is really the opposite... how am I ever going to be able to watch everything that I'd sort of like to watch? So I haven't had suggestions turned on for quite a while, and I don't think I will miss them.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

davetroup said:


> Yeah, that's my fear. So I'm trying to figure out if my fear is still rational or if there's no real basis for it any more. A couple of years ago, there were enough deficiencies that I felt like it was rational not to make the jump, but I'm feeling like that may no longer be the case.


But absent knowledge of specific features of import to you the decision can't be rational (i.e. objective).

One option would be to just buy a new TiVo and try out TE4/Hydra, then cancel and return it within the 30-day window.


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## davetroup (Aug 15, 2004)

krkaufman said:


> But absent knowledge of specific features of import to you the decision can't be rational (i.e. objective).
> 
> One option would be to just buy a new TiVo and try out TE4/Hydra, then cancel and return it within the 30-day window.


I mostly use my TiVo to record stuff OTA, often using season passes, and play them back. Sometimes I watch via streaming, if a recording doesn't occur or something. I love commercial skip. I love being able to use the iOS app or the web to schedule recordings.

I also use Tivo to essentially keep track of episodes I intend to watch, including on streaming services, by OnePassing them (which creates bookmarks) and deleting episodes as I watch them. So I use my TiVo's "Now Playing" as a master database of programming which I want/intend to watch. My preference is to record things, but some stuff is only available via streaming.

The more graphical nature of Hydra, with images of episodes, etc. instead of just a textual list, isn't particularly appealing, but I guess that's what most people prefer these days, and it isn't objectionable enough to keep me from switching.

The suggestion to buy a new TiVo to try TE4 and then return it is not a bad idea, but I'm not sure I want to invest that much effort into this decision. I am actually getting good feedback here, and it's moving me toward a decision. So thanks to everyone who has added to the discussion.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

davetroup said:


> I mostly use my TiVo to record stuff OTA, often using season passes, and play them back. Sometimes I watch via streaming, if a recording doesn't occur or something. I love commercial skip. I love being able to use the iOS app or the web to schedule recordings.
> 
> I also use Tivo to essentially keep track of episodes I intend to watch, including on streaming services, by OnePassing them (which creates bookmarks) and deleting episodes as I watch them. So I use my TiVo's "Now Playing" as a master database of programming which I want/intend to watch. My preference is to record things, but some stuff is only available via streaming.
> 
> ...


Thoughts:

Seeing as you record OTA (and so none of your content should be copy-protected), one option would be to offload all your recordings to a PC, either before the TE4 upgrade or TE3 rollback. The content could then be restored to the TiVo after the TE3 rollback.

It's my understanding that the TE4 My Shows listing has shifted to a more text-based listing from the original TE4 icon-heavy presentation.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Two pictures of My Shows. Both displayed on same Sony TV through AVR. The TE4 has the selection list added on the left with v5.













Differences in contrast/font/brightness are from the two different software versions. Both are basic Roamio boxes.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Having used Hydra since the day it was released through last week's update there isn't much of the difference... if you didn't care for it before odds are you still won't and vice-versa.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

davetroup said:


> I have a Roamio OTA and a Mini, still running TE3. I briefly tried TE4 when it was first released - I didn't have many recordings at the time. It was slow and buggy and missing features present in TE3, and I didn't love the UI, so I went back to TE3 and have stuck with it. I'm a Tivo user for nearly 20 years and was fine with the old UI.
> 
> But now with the latest TE4 update rolling out, I'm wondering if it is finally time to move to TE4. The problem, of course, is that it's esssntially a one-way trip... I have lots of recordings now, and if I move to TE4, there's no easy way to go back without losing all of my content, which is not really an option I'd consider.
> 
> ...


A remaining factor to consider: the loss of PC -> TiVo box show transfer capability with TE4. As well as, the loss of TiVo box -> TiVo box show transfer capability using the box's show listing (instead, TiVo Online must be used--it can be a bit buggy or even down sometimes). Simply FYI, should these factors be important to you.

And concurring that if you decide to try TE4 again, you might consider using pyTivo Desktop, TiVo Desktop, or kmttg to save a copy of your shows (or, at least those that are important to you) on your PC, should you decide, in the end, that you want to return to TE3.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

JoeKustra said:


> Two pictures of My Shows. Both displayed on same Sony TV through AVR. The TE4 has the selection list added on the left with v5.
> View attachment 40688
> View attachment 40689
> 
> Differences in contrast/font/brightness are from the two different software versions. Both are basic Roamio boxes.


Wow. Stark difference to me. Nice to see the My Shows improvement in Hydra but looking at this makes me think I made the right choice rolling back (while I can). And while I hate tiles, the thumbnail in TE3 is very nice to me with useful information at a glance.

Added "wow" to the number of titles that are marked SKIP on your Roamio! Geesh. Maybe I'd feel differently about auto-skip if I had half of what you got for SKIP tagged shows.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Two pictures of My Shows. Both displayed on same Sony TV through AVR. The TE4 has the selection list added on the left with v5.
> View attachment 40688
> View attachment 40689
> 
> Differences in contrast/font/brightness are from the two different software versions. Both are basic Roamio boxes.


Great post. Would have been great if we'd managed to have similar comparison shots for more screens since the release of Hydra, and now as it's updated.

Thanks.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

exdishguy said:


> Wow. Stark difference to me. Nice to see the My Shows improvement in Hydra but looking at this makes me think I made the right choice rolling back (while I can). And while I hate tiles, the thumbnail in TE3 is very nice to me with useful information at a glance.
> 
> Added "wow" to the number of titles that are marked SKIP on your Roamio! Geesh. Maybe I'd feel differently about auto-skip if I had half of what you got for SKIP tagged shows.


I had not noticed that they didn't have the thumbnail information in the new TE4 update and I agree I like the information provided there.

Out of the top 16 shows in My Shows 12 have SKIP and for the ones that don't - 1 is HBO (GoT), 2 are streaming (Farscape and Top Gear) and the last is on Cartoon Network and doesn't get SKIP.

Scott


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## Rowan (Jun 29, 2000)

Mikeguy said:


> The loss of PC -> TiVo box show transfer capability with TE4.


That is the one thing that is stopping me from moving over. Once this feature is added back I will switch over.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> Great post. Would have been great if we'd managed to have similar comparison shots for more screens since the release of Hydra, and now as it's updated.
> Thanks.


I really like the ability to change category. The pictures were taken a few minutes apart. I have the video window disabled when I take pictures. Any specific comparisons you would like? I would like to point out that every program on the TE4 box were moved there via Online since I still haven't added a cable card. Maybe next week.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

One of the things I like in TE4 is you can see all of the program details/description of a recording or in the guide.
In TE3 the details/description go so far then just stop sometimes even in mid sentence or a word.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KevTech said:


> One of the things I like in TE4 is you can see all of the program details/description of a recording or in the guide.
> In TE3 the details/description go so far then just stop sometimes even in mid sentence or a word.


That must be different in your area. My descriptions still cut off (but are longer). Example: Tonight, CBS, FBI at 9pm EST. Just compare the guide with what the Info button shows. Both will display the entire description if you hit the Info button. You may need to hit Info twice with TE3 to get it all.


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## davetroup (Aug 15, 2004)

I took the plunge and updated yesterday. I didn't get the new Spring update yet, so I'm still on the previous version of TE4, but after using it for an evening, my reaction is mostly "why did I resist for so long?" It seems more responsive than TE3, and although the interface changes will take some getting used to, most of them seem well thought-out. I look forward to getting the Spring update with auto-skip. But I like how the Skip flag is displayed so prominently, so that you play something, you know that Skip is enabled (or not.)

TE3 had a bug where sometimes a show would say "Skip enabled" when you started to play it, but then it turned out not to be enabled after all. Too early for me to tell whether that problem exists in TE4. Anyway, I'd expect there wouldn't be any difference between TE3 and TE4 in terms of which shows have the skip markers. TiVo's been doing a pretty good job with them lately.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and suggestions. Clearly the problems I encountered when TE4 first launched are no longer apparent, so I'm glad to have come back into the mainstream.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I feel Skip is pretty clear with TE3:


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

JoeKustra said:


> That must be different in your area. My descriptions still cut off (but are longer).


Ya that one at the top of guides or recording cuts off for me too but if you select info or more info you can see the full details in TE4.
In TE3 on recording I could not see that even pressing info although I don't think I ever tried pressing info twice.
Could revert back to try it.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

Well, I have to roll back tomorrow to T3 as wife says she hates the new interface.
happy wife happy life


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

KevTech said:


> Well, I have to roll back tomorrow to T3 as wife says she hates the new interface.
> happy wife happy life


Have you changed the default list settings/options of "My Shows", etc., as well as the sort order? Once I made those changes my wife was fine with it....plus she loves the new autoskip.

Hydra has it's pros/cons, but all the new features/fixes are going into this UI (TE4 experience "aka Hydra") and other changes they make into the future.

Plus rolling back has it's problems too...don't you lose all your shows?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

d_anders said:


> Plus rolling back has it's problems too...don't you lose all your shows?


Save them to your PC or another box first. And yes, a pain.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

d_anders said:


> Have you changed the default list settings/options of "My Shows", etc., as well as the sort order? Once I made those changes my wife was fine with it....plus she loves the new autoskip.
> 
> Hydra has it's pros/cons, but all the new features/fixes are going into this UI (TE4 experience "aka Hydra") and other changes they make into the future.
> 
> Plus rolling back has it's problems too...don't you lose all your shows?


Ya I tried all that and rolling back only took me about 15 minutes. I had all shows/passes backed up so total time was only about 1 hour.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

JoeKustra said:


> Both will display the entire description if you hit the Info button. You may need to hit Info twice with TE3 to get it all.


Here is an example of what I was describing when pushing the info button on long program details/description.
On the T3 side you see at the end where it cuts off: *Meanwhile, Andre he...*
But on the T4 side it has a whole lot more and is complete: *Meanwhile, Andre helps empire by getting help from the last person the Lyons expect and Cookie may never forgive Lucious for what he's done.








*


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

Wife changed her mind and wants me to put TE4 back on the bolt.
I told her fine I will but I will not revert back to TE3 again.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KevTech said:


> Wife changed her mind and wants me to put TE4 back on the bolt.
> I told her fine I will but I will not revert back to TE3 again.


You will if she wants you to. 

What made her change her mind, if anything?


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

KevTech said:


> _*Wife changed her mind and wants me to put TE4 back on the bolt.*_
> I told her fine I will but I will not revert back to TE3 again.


This just sums up how silly the entire TE3 rollback from TE4 is.


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## KevTech (Apr 15, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> What made her change her mind, if anything?


I thought maybe she did not like it because things were changed and she did not know how to do everything but did not want to ask me for whatever reason.
So I printed out the TiVo Experience 4.6 Viewer's Guide so she could read what all was changed and how to operate everything on TE4.
After she read up on everything she said OK let's try it again.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

CloudAtlas said:


> This just sums up how silly the entire TE3 rollback from TE4 is.


It's only silly if the features that TiVo did not move forward from TE3 into TE4 are things you don't care about and use/rely on. I'm now on my second week of imposed grid Guide under TE3,* and it simply does not do things as efficiently for me as the Live Guide (and, candidly, is a bit painful to look at and use generally). I would miss_ effective_ Suggestions if they no longer were available to me. And I've been doing a great deal of TiVo <-> TiVo and PC <-> TiVo show transfers the past few weeks, which would have been much harder to accomplish, or impossible, under TE4.

Fix those things, and I'm all in! :up:

* I'm trying to get used to it and like it, I really am. I finally cracked for a few minutes earlier today, when I wanted to see a station's schedule for the next week--it was so much easier to use the Live Guide view and clearly see (not in a jumble of stations and listings) a third of a day at a time.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

Mikeguy said:


> It's only silly if the features that TiVo did not move forward from TE3 into TE4 are things you don't care about and use/rely on. I'm now on my second week of imposed grid Guide under TE3,* ...
> 
> Fix those things, and I'm all in! :up:


Staying on TE3 is a reasonable choice.

It's more the knee jerk TE3 rollbacks and the constant talking about it that I find silly. Someone who has rolled back to TE3 should just forget about TE4. 


> * I'm trying to get used to it and like it, I really am. I finally cracked for a few minutes earlier today, when I wanted to see a station's schedule for the next week--it was so much easier to use the Live Guide view and clearly see (not in a jumble of stations and listings) a third of a day at a time.


I've used grid guide since the 80s CableVision cable boxes so I'd imagine switching would not be easy at first. You might be better off using the Mini Guide over Grid Guide if you ever do upgrade to TE4.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Rowan said:


> That is the one thing that is stopping me from moving over. Once this feature is added back I will switch over.


I haven't been following Hydra too closely - do we know if they're planning to add PC->TiVo transfers in the future? So far that's been the main deal breaker for me, but I'm hoping that's not permanent.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

TerpBE said:


> I haven't been following Hydra too closely - do we know if they're planning to add PC->TiVo transfers in the future? So far that's been the main deal breaker for me, but I'm hoping that's not permanent.


So far, no.

BUT, Tivo is apparently investigating with Plex the possibility of integrating local content, like programs appearing in a folder or something like that. It might be the closest thing to a compromise we get.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TerpBE said:


> I haven't been following Hydra too closely - do we know if they're planning to add PC->TiVo transfers in the future? So far that's been the main deal breaker for me, but I'm hoping that's not permanent.


When TE4/Hydra first came out, people here noted the PC -> TiVo box transfer capability lapse and asked/cried, "why?" One of TiVo's reps. explained that this hadn't been a conscious decision as much as something that just had resulted, and stated that the issue would be put on TiVo's list of things to look at (but that it wasn't a priority).

IMHO, the entire TiVo show transfer system needs to be looked at and fixed. The system before just work--it's severely handicapped now. (One needs to leave one's TiVo boxes and separately go to a computer and go online to transfer shows between boxes? Really? (And totally ignoring the fact that TiVo Online is buggy and sometimes simply doesn't work.)

A further sad example of TiVo inexplicably breaking/ignoring things that simply worked before. Show transfers; Suggestions; Live Guide. Fix 'em and get a majority of the rest of us on TE4.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

That’s assuming it is a priority to get the holdouts into TE4.


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## dmk1974 (Mar 7, 2002)

I keep looking into upgrading to TE4 as well, but am concerned with the speed on my Minis since I have the 92, 93 and 95 versions in my house. I know the 95 will be fine, but the older 4 I don't want slowdowns or need for reboots. I also have a Roamio Plus as the host and just don't want to have any performance impacts.

I know I'd lose Live Guide unfortunately too. But it seems per most feedback that TE4 has gotten a little better with updates along the way.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> That's assuming it is a priority to get the holdouts into TE4.


Oh, I never would assume that it would be. And TiVo always can force the "decision." But I also think/wonder that TiVo might actually believe that these users, some of whom might be deemed "power users" or more sophisticated (whatever that means) in their use, might actually have a few points--presumably, many people at TiVo actually use TiVo boxes as well.


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

When I first set up my Bolt Vox, I had to go online to move the one passes and my shows from my XL4. Now, for some reason, everything appears under devices, and I can move shows in both directions the old fashioned way.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

KJN said:


> When I first set up my Bolt Vox, I had to go online to move the one passes and my shows from my XL4. Now, for some reason, everything appears under devices, and I can move shows in both directions the old fashioned way.


Hmmm, is that under TE3 or TE4? If under TE4, I wonder if the latest software release restored that capability.


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

Mikeguy said:


> Hmmm, is that under TE3 or TE4? If under TE4, I wonder if the latest software release restored that capability.


I am using the latest update of Hydra. It also worked before this last update.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> Hmmm, is that under TE3 or TE4? If under TE4, I wonder if the latest software release restored that capability.


If you mean that a TE4 box can copy programs from anything, I'm missing something.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Oh, I never would assume that it would be. And TiVo always can force the "decision." But I also think/wonder that TiVo might actually believe that these users, some of whom might be deemed "power users" or more sophisticated (whatever that means) in their use, might actually have a few points--presumably, many people at TiVo actually use TiVo boxes as well.


"Power users" don't typically drive consumer electronics. Especially when the vendor has all the metrics of how their device is used. When the old "power" options existed, they could tell if they moved into the general population. Some that are held near and dear to some users were deemed to not be the differentiators some assumed. Right or wrong, that's how it worked.


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

JoeKustra said:


> If you mean that a TE4 box can copy programs from anything, I'm missing something.


Nope, not what I am saying. I was told that the only way to transfer programs from an older Tivo(XL4) to a new Bolt with Hydra was to use the Tivo online transfers. That did work. But now I see I can also do it the old way, using "Devices" in the menu. I do not think that was possible before. When I first got the Bolt, the XL4 did not show under devices.
My 3 Tivos( Bolt-Vox, XL4, 2 tuner HD) all play well together, sharing recordings in both directions, over wifi, not using Tivo online.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> "Power users" don't typically drive consumer electronics. Especially when the vendor has all the metrics of how their device is used. When the old "power" options existed, they could tell if they moved into the general population. Some that are held near and dear to some users were deemed to not be the differentiators some assumed. Right or wrong, that's how it worked.


I get your point. However, there is plenty of evidence where CE companies have used early adopters and/or "power users" as evangelist and a conduit for ideation/new features. Some things might get monetized (if there is evidence that the masses of main stream customers will pay a premium of such features). Some others might be advanced features that power users enjoy using, however, the main stream may not care about, still, deemed worthwhile to keep evangelist/power users engaged. Once upon a time Tivo understood that dynamic - Rovi clearly does not.

It's always a fine line as to what features go into what releases and invariably that means how much time and money will be spent to push those features out and ultimately what the ROI will be once you cross the finish line. This is a natural tension that exists in every single company that produces a product IMO - not just CE.

Now nobody expects that Tivo should spend oodles of time and money porting features over to TE4 if they are difficult to do (for some reason) and will just cost far too much to appease all of us long-time loyal Tivo fans. I for one don't buy that Live Guide and Transfers present that big of an investment in time and resources to port. Conversely, Thumbs up/down and Recommendations probably need to be overhauled to be able to work with other apps (e.g. Netflix) so that may be a bigger money pit to port over (yet, still quite possibly worthwhile if viewed as being part of the core Tivo brand and a unique selling proposition).


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> "Power users" don't typically drive consumer electronics. Especially when the vendor has all the metrics of how their device is used. When the old "power" options existed, they could tell if they moved into the general population. Some that are held near and dear to some users were deemed to not be the differentiators some assumed. Right or wrong, that's how it worked.


I live in this idealistic world where manufacturers incorporate excellence in a product for pride of excellence.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

exdishguy said:


> I get your point. However, there is plenty of evidence where CE companies have used early adopters and/or "power users" as evangelist and a conduit for ideation/new features.


Different dynamic. You are talking about new tech here. The "power" usage in the case of TE3 to TE4 is old tech. It never got adopted by a large community. Early adopters are a different class than power users although they do overlap.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Different dynamic. You are talking about new tech here. The "power" usage in the case of TE3 to TE4 is old tech. It never got adopted by a large community. Early adopters are a different class than power users although they do overlap.


I see. So "power users" that like _features _in TE3 are no longer relevant because some _features _aren't in the new TE4 where there are apparently no more "power users" or need for "power users?"

I'm not sure which of us that remain on TE3 ever said Tivo should NOT bother to update TE3. It needed to be updated and ported for no other reason than to refresh the look of it (and a host of other reasons). We will all continue to debate the wisdom of dropping features that us "old" Tivo users covet more than some new Tivo users. I predict the gamble to dis-intermediate themselves of core Tivo differentiators and core "power users" will not pay off. You clearly beg to differ.

One thing is for certain - none of us will know until the next couple of earnings reports come out.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Can the engineering and/or marketing types here help me understand something, as to why TE4 is what it is?

Specifically, as I'm now seeing it and personal to my own TiVo system use and preferences, TE4 has 3 major deficits to TE3: no Live Guide; a multiply-deficient show transfer system (no PC -> TiVo box transfer capability, and no direct (i.e. TiVo Online-less) TiVo box -> TiVo box transfer capability); and no working Suggestions system. TE3 had each of those.

Those capabilities having existed and been in place in TE3, what would be the engineering or marketing, or other, reason that they simply wouldn't have been brought forward into TE4? In the simple paradigm in my mind as a non-engineer, I would have thought that each of those feature "modules" simply could have been migrated over to TE4, just as, for example, the grid Guide was incorporated into TE4. Are things considerably more complex than that, such that it would have consumed considerable time and energy to port each feature over? Or, perhaps, would the additions "bloat" the software to a negative effect, and possibly require more physical storage? Does the dropping of features relate to a simplifying of customer support (fewer features, less to support)?

On a marketing angle, people have commented here that the average TCF'er is part of the minority of TiVo's customer base, with the vast majority being the cablescos, and that the cablecos don't want the Live Guide as an option--but why not (support issues?), and couldn't TiVo simply switch the Live Guide option off for those cablecos?

As to Suggestions, a few people recently have noted that as Netflix and other apps don't use a thumbs system, TiVo might be trying to get away from that paradigm. I understand that, but it still seems that the thumbs provide a valuable source of personal data,* including for where Netflix and the other sources don't have the specific programing. (And this totally ignores the fact that the new Suggestions system simply doesn't work.)

And with regard to transfers, is there some tech. issue or concern, or might it come down to legal liability concerns?

I'm just realistically trying to understand why features that worked and that at least a real amount of consumers used would be dropped from a new software release.

* Perhaps which further has a marketable value as a data commodity.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

exdishguy said:


> I get your point. However, there is plenty of evidence where CE companies have used early adopters and/or "power users" as evangelist and a conduit for ideation/new features. Some things might get monetized (if there is evidence that the masses of main stream customers will pay a premium of such features). Some others might be advanced features that power users enjoy using, however, the main stream may not care about, still, deemed worthwhile to keep evangelist/power users engaged. *Once upon a time Tivo understood that dynamic - Rovi clearly does not.*


You are a wise person  but I am not sure that it comes down to TiVo-Rovi: wasn't Margret Schmidt a chief architect of TE4, and she was a longtime TiVo'er. Also, wasn't the bulk of TE4 developed under TiVo as vs. Rovi?


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Mikeguy said:


> And with regard to transfers, is there some tech. issue or concern, or might it come down to legal liability concerns?.


No~


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Joe3 said:


> No~


I just don't get, why try to fix what's not broke, and then break it in the process, causing more work?


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

KJN said:


> Nope, not what I am saying. I was told that the only way to transfer programs from an older Tivo(XL4) to a new Bolt with Hydra was to use the Tivo online transfers. That did work. But now I see I can also do it the old way, using "Devices" in the menu. I do not think that was possible before. When I first got the Bolt, the XL4 did not show under devices.
> My 3 Tivos( Bolt-Vox, XL4, 2 tuner HD) all play well together, sharing recordings in both directions, over wifi, not using Tivo online.


Share and transfer are two different things. The transfer function results in a separate copy of the program on the receiving device. The only way to transfer programs in your scenario is via TiVo Online. (And that function results in damaged files for many of us.)


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## XIBM (Mar 9, 2013)

I think transfer to other devices has copyright legal issues that cause extra programming and legal exposure...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

exdishguy said:


> I see. So "power users" that like _features _in TE3 are no longer relevant because some _features _aren't in the new TE4 where there are apparently no more "power users" or need for "power users?"
> .


That is not what I've said at all. TE3 features have been around for years and are used by a portion of power users. But they haven't caught on with the general public. How long do you hold onto them hoping the power users will spread the word?

Truly, other than live guide, many couldn't easily as they are truly power user items.

I also never said they were right or wrong. Just looking at the way they see it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> I just don't get, why try to fix what's not broke, and then break it in the process, causing more work?


I've seen this with software before. It ages. It gets updated and patched to death and gets to a point where it is very difficult to enhance. Companies will the look at a rewrite, which TE4 was; it wasn't a mapped porting. If you rewrite, you have a chance to rethink. That's what they did. So you have different approaches to things like viewing buffers. And since it is a rewrite, not just a graphic remap, you have to choose your items. Yes, you may introduce issues, but with cleaner, modern code you can fix them.

It is a strategic decision almost any longtime software company has to face at some time. Rebuild or keep applying tape and glue. TiVo made that decision before the rovi acquisition.


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## dmk1974 (Mar 7, 2002)

I had also posted in the Roamio forum which gets far less traffic than the coffee house. Is there a noticeable speed difference between TE3 and TE4? Thanks!

Roamio Plus UI Speed - TE3 vs TE4


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

Phil_C said:


> Share and transfer are two different things. The transfer function results in a separate copy of the program on the receiving device. The only way to transfer programs in your scenario is via TiVo Online. (And that function results in damaged files for many of us.)


I am transferring, not sharing. Not using Tivo online.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KJN said:


> I am transferring, not sharing. Not using Tivo online.


You're going to face much skepticism, as you'd be the only person with the 'Transfer' option available within the TE4 UI. (Transfers to the Premiere or HD, both running TE3, aren't in doubt; just those to a DVR running TE4.)

You're sure you're still running TE4 (21.*) on the BOLT?


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

krkaufman said:


> You're going to face much skepticism, as you'd be the only person with the 'Transfer' option available within the TE4 UI. (Transfers to the Premiere or HD, both running TE3, aren't in doubt; just those to a DVR running TE4.)
> 
> You're sure you're still running TE4 (21.*) on the BOLT?


Yes, I was surprised too. I will post proof when I get a chance.
I have no reason to BS this, It just works.

I took pictures showing the transfers, but I cannot upload them.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> You're going to face much skepticism, as you'd be the only person with the 'Transfer' option available within the TE4 UI. (Transfers to the Premiere or HD, both running TE3, aren't in doubt; just those to a DVR running TE4.)
> 
> You're sure you're still running TE4 (21.*) on the BOLT?


Personally, I still am surprised at the people who can do out-of-home streaming to a PC, when that feature has not been released.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> You are a wise person  but I am not sure that it comes down to TiVo-Rovi: wasn't Margret Schmidt a chief architect of TE4, and she was a longtime TiVo'er. Also, wasn't the bulk of TE4 developed under TiVo as vs. Rovi?


Good points. I don't know the backstory so perhaps I'm being unduly unfair to Rovi. I've pretty much been happily humming along with my Tivo's up until I bought a Bolt recently and so I'm jumping into these discussions in this forum late in the game. Or so it would seem.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> I've seen this with software before. It ages. It gets updated and patched to death and gets to a point where it is very difficult to enhance. Companies will the look at a rewrite, which TE4 was; it wasn't a mapped porting. If you rewrite, you have a chance to rethink. That's what they did. So you have different approaches to things like viewing buffers. And since it is a rewrite, not just a graphic remap, you have to choose your items. Yes, you may introduce issues, but with cleaner, modern code you can fix them.
> 
> It is a strategic decision almost any longtime software company has to face at some time. Rebuild or keep applying tape and glue. TiVo made that decision before the Rovi acquisition.


Good post. Makes sense and I completely agree - at some point you run out of BandAids and the code base becomes bloatware. I don't think there is much debate as to the need for Tivo to port to a newer platform/development tools.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> That is not what I've said at all. TE3 features have been around for years and are used by a portion of power users. But they haven't caught on with the general public. How long do you hold onto them hoping the power users will spread the word?.


Well I don't think the features didn't catch on with the general public because they were for power users. Maybe the general public didn't warm to the features because the hardware cost and subscription costs were exorbitant? How would anyone ever know if they liked those features if they never considered in a million years to buy a Tivo DVR with Lifetime Service for $900 when they can get a DVR from their cableco for $15 a month? Maybe streaming and the way media consumption evolved left Tivo behind? Maybe Tivo should have done more to enhance and improve those core features in this new world of media consumption?

I think cheap Roku's, Apple TV, and FREE apps on SmartTVs have had a lot more of an adverse impact on Tivo than any "power user" feature they think wasn't compelling enough to have made them successful. Now that there is a strategy to run on other hardware the question I have is - what in the hell will make Tivo relevant when it is an app on a Roku stick? 720P? Tiles that look like tiles in every other streaming app? A grid guide? OnePasses?

We know that it won't be Live Guide, Transfers, Thumbs Up/Down, Suggestions, etc. So what the hell is left once the Tivo box itself goes bye bye?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Can the engineering and/or marketing types here help me understand something, as to why TE4 is what it is?
> 
> Specifically, as I'm now seeing it and personal to my own TiVo system use and preferences, TE4 has 3 major deficits to TE3: no Live Guide; a multiply-deficient show transfer system (no PC -> TiVo box transfer capability, and no direct (i.e. TiVo Online-less) TiVo box -> TiVo box transfer capability); and no working Suggestions system. TE3 had each of those.
> 
> ...


People throw partners under the bus all the time, but Tivo is not afraid to add features, even if "just" for retail. Otherwise skipmode would never exist, and that is a much hotter potato than something as benign as Live Guide or DVR transfers. There are 800K of us and that makes us their second or third largest partner.

TivoToGo/TivoToComeBack was discontinued in 2012. Luckily the ancient HMO/HME code used by pytivo and kmttg still managed to work for a long time until it started to break from atrophy, but Tivo wasn't interested in PC transfers for a long time. It wasn't even on the radar for TE4. So that's ultimate a separate question.

As for DVR transfers and Live Guide, I think the bottom line was opportunity cost. They were both probably deemed redundant. They were developing on a deadline, so they made a handful of early sacrifices. Some of the easier sacrifices have already been fixed. At first TE4 didn't really add any substantial new features either, other than more artwork and voice control, so it was mostly a wild race just to break even.

They seem to have prioritized core (DVR) functionality first. Stability a close second. Usability third. And quality of life features last. Most of our feedback generally falls into the latter two, but they still needed an extra year and a half to work on the first three.

The Live Guide is purely a UI thing, and in my admittedly limited experience, the UI can be a bottleneck. As simple as it looks, it can be a disproportionate amount of work due to its impact on other things.

Some small evidence to this... during Hydra's year of user testing they only made one substantive UI change and it wasn't implemented until the eleventh hour. Almost all hands were on core functions and stability the whole time. Since then, it's still taken another year and a half to get the UI tweaks we've gotten. UI things are (apparently) no small feat.

All else being equal, we'd be more likely to get DVR transfers before the live guide since half the functionality is already hidden code and wouldn't impact the UI as drastically.

Massive wild ass guess: Tivo will back off transfers until they have the time/desire to implement DLNA or some modern standard to replace their ancient proprietary transfers/streaming code.

Suggestions: They see their current algorithm and lack of user input as an improvement. This is certainly subjective. e.g. I don't necessarily "like" everything I've watched. I'd prefer to give it some guidance too, but it was never "good" either way they cut it so I just ignore the screen spam as best I can.


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

Shows devices listed in TE4


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

exdishguy said:


> Now that there is a strategy to run on other hardware the question I have is - what in the hell will make Tivo relevant when it is an app on a Roku stick? 720P? Tiles that look like tiles in every other streaming app? A grid guide? OnePasses?
> 
> We know that it won't be Live Guide, Transfers, Thumbs Up/Down, Suggestions, etc. *So what the hell is left *once the Tivo box itself goes bye bye?


I think that this is a very good point and question, to the TiVo in both boxed and boxless form. In the past, it was so many of these small features that served as a trademark for TiVo and that gave users visceral joy. I still remember an episode of "Sex in the City" with Miranda and the warming bleeps of her TiVo box.* If TiVo drops these character points--much like dropping the face on the TiVo emblem/mascot--does it lose at least part of its character and its distinguishment from the Recast DVR, the Tablo DVR, cableco boxes, etc., and thereby part of its cache, enjoyment, and marketing power? Do the newer features such as QuickMode and SkipMode (first manual and now auto), as well as the TE4/Hydra interface, fill that "void"?

* I'm currently playing with the Dolby sound option on my TiVo box and I have to admit that I miss the trademark TiVo sounds from my TV --they make a guest appearance every now and again (the absence of predictability is a bit disconcerting, as if a reminder of a lack of engineering precision) but generally are absent. Apart from operating as an audio cue, the sound effects just seem reassuring to me. Go figure, the power of the bleep.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

exdishguy said:


> Good points. I don't know the backstory *so perhaps I'm being unduly unfair to Rovi*. I've pretty much been happily humming along with my Tivo's up until I bought a Bolt recently and so I'm jumping into these discussions in this forum late in the game. Or so it would seem.


Does that exist?  (Sorry, Rovi! Just fix the blasted Guide data once and for all, will you, _please_?)


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

Does toggling the sound settings bring the Tivo sounds back?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KJN said:


> Shows devices listed in TE4
> View attachment 40815


Seeing a remote DVR listed under 'Devices' isn't evidence that Transfers (MRV) have been enabled in the TE4 UI. This is needed to be able to stream (MRS) content between devices.

Select a networked DVR, access a show and get a picture of the 'Transfer' option. And then a pic of the transfer in progress from the TE4 box's My Shows listing.


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

krkaufman said:


> Seeing a remote DVR listed under 'Devices' isn't evidence that Transfers (MRV) have been enabled in the TE4 UI. This is needed to be able to stream MRS) content between devices.
> 
> Select a networked DVR, access a show and get a picture of the 'Transfer' option. And then a pic of the transfer in progress from the TE4 box's My Shows listing.


Wow, I stand corrected. I had it backwards. I CAN transfer, or stream, TO the XL4 under devices, but can only stream back to the Bolt. And I can only transfer, not stream, to my old HD. The good news is that any recording on any unit can be watched on any other unit.
Sorry about my confusion. Still learning about my Bolt every day.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KJN said:


> Yes, I was surprised too. I will post proof when I get a chance.
> I have no reason to BS this, It just works.
> I took pictures showing the transfers, but I cannot upload them.


TE3 has a Transfer History display in the Network Troubleshooting menu. Does your TE4 box still have that?


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

It says supported.


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## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

Mikeguy said:


> ... If TiVo drops these character points--much like dropping the face on the TiVo emblem/mascot--does it lose at least part of its character and its distinguishment from the Recast DVR, the Tablo DVR, cableco boxes, etc., and thereby part of its cache, enjoyment, and marketing power? Do the newer features such as QuickMode and SkipMode (first manual and now auto), as well as the TE4/Hydra interface, fill that "void"?


Yes, because they are branding points, unique to TiVo.

No, they are not a replacement, theses things are not unique but a variation of what is out there.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KJN said:


> It says supported.


I wonder why it displays twice?

Color me stupid, but what are the keystrokes needed to display that menu?


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Massive wild ass guess: Tivo will back off transfers until they have the time/desire to implement DLNA or some modern standard to replace their ancient proprietary transfers/streaming code.


I don't think you're that far off with that WAG. I've wondered if the central concerns are DRM related as Tivo ported from their very closed system with the TE3 platform and are now trying to be more open with TE4 as they try to expand their app ecosystem?


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Does that exist?  (Sorry, Rovi! Just fix the blasted Guide data once and for all, will you, _please_?)


You lost me bro.  I was thinking that was a double negative when I typed it but it does in fact make sense (unduly meaning unwarranted and unfair meaning...well unfair).  Or do you mean the existence of a Rovi backstory may not exist?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KJN said:


> The good news is that any recording on any unit can be watched on any other unit.


You can stream a show residing on the HD directly to the BOLT?

(Streaming is limited to Premiere and later models per the MRS how-to.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KJN said:


> It says supported.
> View attachment 40816


And it *can* transfer shows, just not initiated via the UI.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

KJN said:


> Does toggling the sound settings bring the Tivo sounds back?


Would like to know this also.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ufo4sale said:


> Would like to know this also.


Yes & no. Enable PCM and you get sound effects. Reenable DD and they go away even with no video window.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

JoeKustra said:


> Yes & no. Enable PCM and you get sound effects. Reenable DD and they go away even with no video window.


For complete surround sound which would be the better option DD or PCM? And yes There are Tivo sound effects with PCP enabled.


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

JoeKustra said:


> I wonder why it displays twice?
> 
> Color me stupid, but what are the keystrokes needed to display that menu?


Try this: Help>Troubleshooting>Whole home>Transferring troubleshooting>Tivo Boxes


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KJN said:


> Try this: Help>Troubleshooting>Whole home>Transferring troubleshooting>Tivo Boxes


Thanks. It's wrong on my display also. But, on a positive note, it doesn't say my Mini boxes can transfer.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ufo4sale said:


> For complete surround sound which would be the better option DD or PCM? And yes There are Tivo sound effects with PCP enabled.


On my Roamio, if I set PCM it's only two channel stereo like I get from Pandora and most other streaming services. If I set DD, I get DD 5.1 on 90% of my HD channels. I get DD EX on CNN. Most shows on Comedy Central are DD 2.0 and even my cable company's message channel is DD 2.0. With TE3, lack of a signal still sends PCM. With TE4, nothing is sent without video.

BTW, hitting Slow, changing menus, then taking the picture removes the video window and its glare. I hope that bug gets fixed.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Pictures of TE4. Only Roamio 3 and Mini 4k are TE4.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

exdishguy said:


> You lost me bro.  I was thinking that was a double negative when I typed it but it does in fact make sense (unduly meaning unwarranted and unfair meaning...well unfair).  Or do you mean the existence of a Rovi backstory may not exist?


Sorry, I just was being sarcastic as to your earlier comment, "so perhaps I'm being unduly unfair to Rovi"--my thought being (half in jest and wryly), can one really be unduly unfair to Rovi?  (Reflecting on the pain that Rovi sometimes has caused users, e.g. with the constant and, at least right now for me, increased inaccuracies and generic info. used in the Tivo Guide.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Thanks. It's wrong on my display also.


What's "wrong"?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

krkaufman said:


> What's "wrong"?


That a TE4 box can transfer a program like a TE3 box.


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

JoeKustra said:


> That a TE4 box can transfer a program like a TE3 box.


The TE4 box (Bolt), CAN transfer to my XL4 and old HD.It cannot be transferred to without the website, but it can be streamed to from both boxes.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

KJN said:


> The TE4 box (Bolt), CAN transfer to my XL4 and old HD.It cannot be transferred to without the website, but it can be streamed to from both boxes.


I do that all the time. I have transferred over 1TB to my TE4 box also. Content on a TE4 box can be moved without Online. I do that a lot also. Since only TE4 has auto skip, I move a lot of programs to it. It doesn't have a cable card yet.


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## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry, I just was being sarcastic as to your earlier comment, "so perhaps I'm being unduly unfair to Rovi"--my thought being (half in jest and wryly), can one really be unduly unfair to Rovi?  (Reflecting on the pain that Rovi sometimes has caused users, e.g. with the constant and, at least right now for me, increased inaccuracies and generic info. used in the Tivo Guide.)


LOL. I thought as much. No worries.

Fully agreed on pain-inflicted by Rovi with guide.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

KJN said:


> The TE4 box (Bolt), CAN transfer to my XL4 and old HD.It cannot be transferred to without the website, but it can be streamed to from both boxes.


This still doesn't ring true ... as old pre-Premiere boxes aren't supposed to support streaming, just transfers.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> That a TE4 box can transfer a program like a TE3 box.


Oh, OK; the TE4 box *can* receive transfers, though not initiated in the same way as for a TE3 box.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This whole sub-topic is centered on a help display. I expect we will see that a Bolt can do income taxes soon. Since my Mini Vox shows up in my TE3 My Shows when powered off, anything is possible.


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## TonyBlunt (Jan 28, 2014)

The auto-skip feature has me ready to upgrade to Hydra, but what version of Hydra will I get if I upgrade? Is that feature only in beta versions at present?


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## KJN (Feb 24, 2019)

TonyBlunt said:


> The auto-skip feature has me ready to upgrade to Hydra, but what version of Hydra will I get if I upgrade? Is that feature only in beta versions at present?


Hydra is no longer in Beta, so you will get the most current version. Others may not agree, but I found Hydra to be a welcome upgrade. I wasn't sure at first, but now I would never go back. Go for it.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TonyBlunt said:


> The auto-skip feature has me ready to upgrade to Hydra, but what version of Hydra will I get if I upgrade? Is that feature only in beta versions at present?


Being rolled out to everyone on Hydra/TE4--the roll-outs just take some time, especially if TiVo is being careful, and if it's seeing some issues, and fixing them, along the way (that's all good).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyBlunt said:


> The auto-skip feature has me ready to upgrade to Hydra, but what version of Hydra will I get if I upgrade? Is that feature only in beta versions at present?


You may not receive the Spring Update, which includes AutoSkip, immediately on upgrading but would receive it in due course, along with the rest of the TE4 install base as the rollout progresses to completion.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

I upgraded my Bolt 3 weeks ago and the version was 21.8.something — i.e. no autoskip. After waiting a week with no update, I filled out that spreadsheet and got 21.9.v3 about 2-3 days later.

Unless the default version changed in the last couple of weeks you're probably not getting autoskip right off the bat.


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## TonyBlunt (Jan 28, 2014)

mlsnyc said:


> I upgraded my Bolt 3 weeks ago and the version was 21.8.something - i.e. no autoskip. After waiting a week with no update, I filled out that spreadsheet and got 21.9.v3 about 2-3 days later.
> 
> Unless the default version changed in the last couple of weeks you're probably not getting autoskip right off the bat.


Just updated to Hydra and got 21.8.3, bummer, expected they would download the latest version. So what spreadsheet are you referring to that got you the latest?


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

TonyBlunt said:


> Just updated to Hydra and got 21.8.3, bummer, expected they would download the latest version. So what spreadsheet are you referring to that got you the latest?


It's linked to in this post: 21.9.1.v3


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## TonyBlunt (Jan 28, 2014)

Funny thing, I wanted 21.9xx to get auto commercial skipping. Got 21.8 but it is skipping ads without me doing anything - I see the first 2-3 seconds then it jumps to the beginning of the next program segment. Is this normal in 21.8xx?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

TonyBlunt said:


> Funny thing, I wanted 21.9xx to get auto commercial skipping. Got 21.8 but it is skipping ads without me doing anything - I see the first 2-3 seconds then it jumps to the beginning of the next program segment. Is this normal in 21.8xx?


Did you setup IFTTT integration at some point? It's possible you're auto-skipping via an IFTTT applet. (You may have tried IFTTT auto-skip with no success when running TE3/20.*, but the upgrade brought the box into spec for the IFTTT auto-skip functionality.)

p.s. If "yes," you'll want to disable the IFTTT auto-skip applet once you receive 21.9.1.vN.


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## TonyBlunt (Jan 28, 2014)

krkaufman said:


> Did you setup IFTTT integration at some point? It's possible you're auto-skipping via an IFTTT applet. (You may have tried IFTTT auto-skip with no success when running TE3/20.*, but the upgrade brought the box into spec for the IFTTT auto-skip functionality.)
> 
> p.s. If "yes," you'll want to disable the IFTTT auto-skip applet once you receive 21.9.1.vN.


Brilliant, I would never have remembered playing with that months ago. Many thanks.


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## dave13077 (Jan 11, 2009)

I just upgraded to Hydra. So far so good. One question, is there anyway to change the font size in the guide or change color. The font is harder to see than the old version. Thx


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## TonyBlunt (Jan 28, 2014)

Romeo plus two minis. Upgraded expecting to get 21.9.1 and the auto comm skip, and discovered that it is only a "beta" version seeded to a small group, not available to me. However IFTTT auto-skip is working fine for me until I get 21.9.1. The interface is different, but to me is no better, no worse, than the old interface. It is just a DVR after all.

One nice feature is the option, after watching an episode, to play the next episode in the folder. (and to delete multiple watched episode at once). Another will, eventually, be auto comm skip.

I was annoyed that Tivo tried to sell me a new remote to replace the older one that had a ZOOM button where BACK is on the newer remotes. They did not tell me that the ZOOM button works as the BACK button.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TonyBlunt said:


> Romeo plus two minis. Upgraded expecting to get 21.9.1 and the auto comm skip, and discovered that it is only a "beta" version seeded to a small group, not available to me.


Apparently, not a beta, but just a slow (or perhaps cautious) roll-out.


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## TonyBlunt (Jan 28, 2014)

Mikeguy said:


> Apparently, not a beta, but just a slow (or perhaps cautious) roll-out.


I disagree, whatever their semantics it is a beta. Only a select group have it, and only they get updates to it. It is not being rolled out beyond that group. ergo it is a beta. The rest of us will not get it until it is deemed ready for general release.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

TonyBlunt said:


> I disagree, whatever their semantics it is a beta. Only a select group have it, and only they get updates to it. It is not being rolled out beyond that group. ergo it is a beta. The rest of us will not get it until it is deemed ready for general release.


Beta implies testing. There is no feedback loop. The phrase you are looking for is "limited release."


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## Dr_Zoidberg (Jan 4, 2004)

I've been resisting Hydra for a long time, but just recently, I received a replacement Bolt+, and it came pre-loaded with Hydra. I'm halfway between *It's Good* and *I prefer the Old Version.* I have two complaints. First is that you don't always know when to use the Back Button, where you used the Left directional button all the time in the previous interface. I'm getting used to it, now. The other is that the Zoom button no longer does what you want. I found the workaround for the SD video representation, because the default of 'stretch wide' just ruins the proportions.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

I upgraded my secondary TiVo to Hydra and the experience was fine with me, especially with autoskip. I was mainly streaming recordings that had skip from my main TiVo but I didn’t find anything truly annoying as far as navigating around the redesigned UI. I did have to get used to using the Back button but that didn’t take long. 

I feel ready to upgrade my main TiVo but was holding off while 21.8 was the default version. Now that it looks like 21.9.1.x is getting rolled out to the masses I think I’m going to take the leap.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mlsnyc said:


> I upgraded my secondary TiVo to Hydra and the experience was fine with me, especially with autoskip. I was mainly streaming recordings that had skip from my main TiVo but I didn't find anything truly annoying as far as navigating around the redesigned UI. I did have to get used to using the Back button but that didn't take long.
> 
> I feel ready to upgrade my main TiVo but was holding off while 21.8 was the default version. Now that it looks like 21.9.1.x is getting rolled out to the masses I think I'm going to take the leap.


Enjoy the Dark Side.


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## dave13077 (Jan 11, 2009)

My Roamio Pro is a little slow in some spots of the Hydra UI and Netflix does freeze up now and then when moving around the UI. Wondering if others find the same.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

dave13077 said:


> My Roamio Pro is a little slow in some spots of the Hydra UI and Netflix does freeze up now and then when moving around the UI. Wondering if others find the same.


I was about to pull the trigger and upgrade my Roamio Pro, but then remembered this being mentioned.

Do people with TE4 on their Roamios find the UI just as responsive or is it more sluggish than TE3?


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## TonyBlunt (Jan 28, 2014)

mlsnyc said:


> I was about to pull the trigger and upgrade my Roamio Pro, but then remembered this being mentioned.
> 
> Do people with TE4 on their Roamios find the UI just as responsive or is it more sluggish than TE3?


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## TonyBlunt (Jan 28, 2014)

I find one annoying delay in response. At the end of playing a recorded show the keep/delete dialog appears. An immediate up-arrow to get to the delete option does nothing the first couple of attempts, then works. Or wait a few seconds to hit the up-arrow. Annoying.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mlsnyc said:


> I was about to pull the trigger and upgrade my Roamio Pro, but then remembered this being mentioned.
> Do people with TE4 on their Roamios find the UI just as responsive or is it more sluggish than TE3?


Only in one area. The Roamio isn't as fast as a Bolt. The guide has expanded the descriptions with TE4, so when moving through the guide there can be a lag while that longer description is displayed. I have a basic Roamio with TE3 and TE4 feeding the same TV. I probably would have stopped noticing by now if I gave up TE3.

"Lockups"
I use the reset hdui sequence sometimes. Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, Play, Play. The screen may blank, but it seems to get thing rolling again.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks. Sounds like it’s tolerable but I’ll notice the difference if one has used TE4 on the Bolt. And I do have a Bolt which is my secondary TiVo which I’m using to stream content from the Roamio to get a feel for TE4. Maybe I’ll hold off for now and just stream content with skip on the Bolt and watch everything else on the Roamio.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mlsnyc said:


> Thanks. Sounds like it's tolerable but I'll notice the difference if one has used TE4 on the Bolt. And I do have a Bolt which is my secondary TiVo which I'm using to stream content from the Roamio to get a feel for TE4. Maybe I'll hold off for now and just stream content with skip on the Bolt and watch everything else on the Roamio.


For automatic skip to function the program must reside on the TE4 box. When auto SM was first released I copied several program from TE3 to the TE4 box with Online. Now I just use channel up on the TE3. While it's only slightly faster for some shows, it gives my right hand something to do.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

JoeKustra said:


> For automatic skip to function the program must reside on the TE4 box. When auto SM was first released I copied several program from TE3 to the TE4 box with Online. Now I just use channel up on the TE3. While it's only slightly faster for some shows, it gives my right hand something to do.


Autoskip works for me when I stream the recording from my TE3 Roamio on my TE4 Bolt. No need to transfer so it resides on the Bolt. Only thing is it always reverts to manual when the recording starts. But it's easy to set to Auto through the Info page.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

My experience with two stock Roamio Pros and 5 minis...

TE4 is overall no more or less “sluggish” than TE3 (if you want sluggish, look at DirecTV’s 2 tuner DVRs). We’ve only ever had the Prime Video app lock up, never Netflix

Hydra/TE4 is faster in some spots, slower in others. But commercial skip is the greatest thing since sliced bread.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Diana Collins said:


> But commercial skip is the greatest thing since sliced bread.


I'm still somewhat amazed that TiVo implemented this (in true auto mode), given the feature's history in the industry. My, the times have changed.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Diana Collins said:


> But commercial skip is the greatest thing since sliced bread.


I agree and miss that with my cable issued DVR (its a IPTV setup so cant use Tivo for it)


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## Willy92 (Oct 12, 2018)

I upgraded to the Bolt and Mini, with lifetime, last Sept when I made plans to get our 4K TV. I did the whole conversion and got a 4K DVD, already had a Roku Ultra and we are with Spectrum. I knew that I could not transfer my movies from my old Tivos, so I still have them, though, with no Tivo service, so I can see the old verses the new OS.

I think the Hydra is fine, especially with Commercial Skip. When I have issues with the apps I just switch over to my Roku, which is better anyway. I have no problems. After we watch a recorded show, we delete it, usually. No problem. I guess we are not power users, like some of you. I don't know what everyone is complaining about.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

I upgraded my Roamio Pro to TE4 a couple of days ago and so far so good. Responsiveness is pretty much the same as TE3. Navigating the UI hasn't been a problem, though I had gotten used to the biggest changes by using TE4 on a limited basis when I upgraded my Bolt several weeks ago. I don't use any of the apps, so I wouldn't know if there's any material differences with them on TE4 vs. TE3.

One thing I noticed is that long-pressing the 30-second skip button doesn't bring me all the way to the end of the buffer when watching live TV. It stops somewhere around 30 seconds before. My guess is this is to match the behavior of what happens when watching recordings. Anyone notice this and is there any SPS sequence or setting to get it to go all the way to the end of the buffer?


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

mlsnyc said:


> One thing I noticed is that long-pressing the 30-second skip button doesn't bring me all the way to the end of the buffer when watching live TV. It stops somewhere around 30 seconds before. My guess is this is to match the behavior of what happens when watching recordings. Anyone notice this and is there any SPS sequence or setting to get it to go all the way to the end of the buffer?


As you say, I think they need that to trigger the "play next" option. This is new behavior, so there wouldn't be any known key sequence to disable it (if one even exists).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I always use FF then skip to get to the end. Always hated long press keys.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

For me I’d rather long press one key thank quick press two. But if that combo works, it’s good enough for me. I’ll try it out later. Thanks for the tip.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I use a universal remote and have had issues with long presses in the past. So, I just stay away from them.


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

I think I know what you mean. I use the Harmony 650 and it gives me fits when it comes to long presses with my Sonos Playbase. Either volume goes up/down too fast or not at all. The long press on TiVo didn't give me issues. But, that's moot at this point since it no longer does what I expect it to do.


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## bellbm (Dec 16, 2003)

Tivo user since 2003, waited until a month ago or so to upgrade to TE4.
The auto skip mode, auto play next episode, voice control are all much more useful to me than Live Guide. And since I usually have both an iphone or an ipad near me, if I really want the live guide experience I can use that. 
If Plex wasn't available, I would really miss the ability to transfer shows to my box, but I've spent a lot of time building that library, and like the Plex interface.
All in all, I wish I wouldn't have waited so long to update, and would never consider going back to TE3.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

bellbm said:


> Tivo user since 2003, waited until a month ago or so to upgrade to TE4.
> The auto skip mode, auto play next episode, voice control are all much more useful to me than Live Guide. And since I usually have both an iphone or an ipad near me, if I really want the live guide experience I can use that.
> If Plex wasn't available, I would really miss the ability to transfer shows to my box, but I've spent a lot of time building that library, and like the Plex interface.
> All in all, I wish I wouldn't have waited so long to update, and would never consider going back to TE3.


A well-considered view. I'm still in the other camp, for the opposite reasons--although I do get tempted.*  (Note that TE3 indeed has next episode auto-play (if I understand you correctly), for episodes in folders.)

* To the extent that I put myself on a TE3 Grid Guide (as opposed to Live Guide)-restricted diet to try to adjust to it, thinking of trying Hydra--I intended for 2 weeks but gave up a bit short of that, as things simply were taking too long and requiring too many button presses and too much scrolling, to the degree that I was losing enjoyment and was stopping from doing things (that's when I knew that it was crazy for me). But who knows, I might end up experimenting with a TiVo box I need to re-set-up.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> A well-considered view. I'm still in the other camp, for the opposite reasons--although I do get tempted.*  (Note that TE3 indeed has next episode auto-play (if I understand you correctly), for episodes in folders.)
> 
> * To the extent that I put myself on a TE3 Grid Guide (as opposed to Live Guide)-restricted diet to try to adjust to it, thinking of trying Hydra--I intended for 2 weeks but gave up a bit short of that, as things simply were taking too long and requiring too many button presses and too much scrolling, to the degree that I was losing enjoyment and was stopping from doing things (that's when I knew that it was crazy for me). But who knows, I might end up experimenting with a TiVo box I need to re-set-up.


I actually find myself more efficient with TE4. If you experience too many button pushes, it might be because you would be trying to do things the "old way" rather than use the interface as it is designed.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> I actually find myself more efficient with TE4. If you experience too many button pushes, it might be because you would be trying to do things the "old way" rather than use the interface as it is designed.


It's not the overall interface--it's the Grid Guide. Just not as efficient for me to scan through for a larger block of time. I really have tried.  (Now, it may be that the mini-Live Guide under TE4 would suffice for me (I kind of doubt it, though)--but I haven't been on Hydra to check it out.)


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

finally upgraded. initial impressions are that it is fine so far. font is a little small also a little plain. feels a bit less responsive but not bad. I like that the new UI on the old minis lets you go into the menus while your show is playing as on the Roamio Plus itself. i like and hate that the background is of the show highlighted. it kind of distracts from reading the listings but adds some pizzazz. 

I haven't messed with the guide yet. 

They scare you with the back button remote warning but doesn't seem like an issue at all.

is autoskip a setting or do you still have to wait your turn to get that capability? briefly looked at that but was still hit the green button to skip the commercials.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> It's not the overall interface--it's the Grid Guide. Just not as efficient for me to scan through for a larger block of time. I really have tried.  (Now, it may be that the mini-Live Guide under TE4 would suffice for me (I kind of doubt it, though)--but I haven't been on Hydra to check it out.)


The mini guide shows up to 8 movies but in poster form rather than text. So it depends on how you process information. I prefer text but I never liked the live guide anyway.... (It can be as few as four shows as tv show posters are wider than movie posters.)


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> The mini guide shows up to 8 movies but in poster form rather than text. So it depends on how you process information. I prefer text but I never liked the live guide anyway.... (It can be as few as four shows as tv show posters are wider than movie posters.)


Arggh--that's not the right answer (I find text more efficient as well).


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## bellbm (Dec 16, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> I actually find myself more efficient with TE4. If you experience too many button pushes, it might be because you would be trying to do things the "old way" rather than use the interface as it is designed.


If you have a VOX and get used to using the voice search, it's much more efficient. Voice can quickly help you find a show to set up a one pass, and can also get you deep into many menus.


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## zubinh (Jun 7, 2004)

Have any of the online videos that demonstrate Hydra been updated lately? or maybe a site with screenshots? I'd really like to do some due diligence before I upgrade as the consequences for confusing the wife unnecessarily can be quite severe. Thank you.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

zubinh said:


> Have any of the online videos that demonstrate Hydra been updated lately? or maybe a site with screenshots? I'd really like to do some due diligence before I upgrade as the consequences for confusing the wife unnecessarily can be quite severe. Thank you.


Anecdotal but my wife hates it when I change our tv viewing setup.

I updated to Hydra a few days ago and she didn't say anything. I had to ask. This is a good thing. It means the new interface was similar enough that she had no problem with it.

I think it will pass the "wife" test. And the reason is nothing really changed as far as how everything is organized. Menu system is organized roughly the same as before so it's very easy to get used to the few subtle changes. About the only thing I had to do was hit the blue button once under one show because it was organized by season after the update instead of the usual latest to oldest sorting.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

zubinh said:


> Have any of the online videos that demonstrate Hydra been updated lately? or maybe a site with screenshots? I'd really like to do some due diligence before I upgrade as the consequences for confusing the wife unnecessarily can be quite severe. Thank you.


The updated Hydra user manual might be good for tips and screenshots.

https://explore.tivo.com/content/dam/tivo/explore/how-to/TiVoExperience_VG.pdf

Other than some missing features (live guide and PC transfers) the most irksome thing has been My Shows. With the spring update that menu has essentially reverted back to the old two-column layout. The categories on the left are semi-customizable. Tivo's got a video showing this off:

Whats-new

At this point the most immediately jarring thing to an upgrader is probably using Back instead of Left for navigation.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The updated Hydra user manual might be good for tips and screenshots.
> 
> https://explore.tivo.com/content/dam/tivo/explore/how-to/TiVoExperience_VG.pdf
> 
> ...


Watched the video and I must say, TE4 is looking more like a nice, "modernized" version of TE3.  If only Live Guide and transfers (both PC -> TiVo box and inter-TiVo box) weren't "broken."


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Watched the video and I must say, TE4 is looking more like a nice, "modernized" version of TE3.  If only Live Guide and transfers (both PC -> TiVo box and inter-TiVo box) weren't "broken."


They're doing *something* with the guide to expand it beyond linear channels. Fingers crossed they incorporate something Live Guide-ish while they're at it.


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