# Lost 3-14-07 "Par Avion"



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Whoa!!!


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I liked it.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I thought the football was going to get overthrown into the woods and Jack would've seen kate..


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

How did Jack and the others get to the main island so quickly? I wonder.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

reddice said:


> How did Jack and the others get to the main island so quickly? I wonder.


What do you mean? A previous episode showed them taking a boat.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Well ... that was fun! 

I think this was the best ep of the season so far ...

Lots of good stuff in this episode. Does anyone else think Charlie is only doomed because of Claire? In all of Desmond's visions of Charlie's deaths, Claire is Charlie's motivation. Her mom was critically injured because of Claire. There was the whole thing with teh priest and the fortune-teller who told Claire to put the baby up for adoption. (To someone in LA ... think it was someone from Jack's family?) I think Claire is cursed ... forget Hurley, it's Claire.

We also got a couple of answers, too! Yes - Locke knew about the C4, and he even called out Sayid for not telling him about it. Jack and Claire are siblings! Always assumed, but now confirmed.

Excellent ep.


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## reddice (Mar 6, 2004)

Mike Farrington said:


> What do you mean? A previous episode showed them taking a boat.


Stupid me. I must have forgot about that.
So Claire is Jack are related.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

What about "Are you on the list?!?!"


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Great episode and now we can add Claire to the "screwed up" with the fathers list. I think the shorter list is who isn't on it. Rose?

Anyway, some questions were answered. Now we know who Jack Shepard went to Australia to see (and was it Aunt Lesley yelling at him while Ana-lucia sat in the car that night?) 

I enjoyed the whole Locke deal and was kind of happy he had the balls to toss the patch guy into the sonic fence. I wish we had heard what patch guy was going to say to Locke before Danielle yelled, but we can guess.

Jack looking comfortable at the site may be just a matter of prisoner assimliation. But we will see.

And the List! The 'list' is back. The Losties we all know and love were not on the list.

Yep, that was a great episode and definately has me itching for next weeks!


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

drew2k said:


> ... Always assumed, but now confirmed...


Were there clues for this? I don't remember any speculation on this.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> Were there clues for this? I don't remember any speculation on this.


Dad Shepard in Australia for some reason. Claire living in Australia. Whispers about Dad's infedelity.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I enjoyed the whole Locke deal and was kind of happy he had the balls to toss the patch guy into the sonic fence. I wish we had heard what patch guy was going to say to Locke before Danielle yelled, but we can guess.


The Other was about to say that the Locke he recalled was para... [paralyzed].

Locke of course couldn't let his secret come out, so he took a gamble and tossed the Other into the fence. Locke won.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

betts4 said:


> Philosofy said:
> 
> 
> > Were there clues for this? I don't remember any speculation on this.
> ...


Much more than that. Jack's dad knocked on the door where Claire lived, and it was opened by the aunt (we were not sure of her relation to Claire at the time.) There were other clues in that episode that tied Claire and Jack's father together, but I can't recall them all right now.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Were there clues for this? I don't remember any speculation on this.


I don't remember specifics, but I definitely remember someone(s) speculating that Claire and Jack were siblings......or at the very least that Jack's father had an affair with Claire's mother. It's been a while though. Last season?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

drew2k said:


> Much more than that. Jack's dad knocked on the door where Claire lived, and it was opened by the aunt (we wasn't sure of her relation to Claire at the time.) There were other clues in that episode that tied Claire and Jack's father together, but I can't recall them all right now.


And Ana Lucia was in the car wondering what the heck she was doing with this guy....knocking on peoples doors in the middle of the night.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

AND, the best thing about this episode....

No Paolo or Nikki!!!


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

drew2k said:


> Locke of course couldn't let his secret come out, so he took a gamble and tossed the Other into the fence. Locke won.


You might be right, but it happened enough later that I never even considered that Locke was protecting his secret. I took it that he was testing Patchy's statement that the fence was not operational.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Oh and in the MD lottery, in the pick 5 game, #'s 4, 16 and 23 were chosen. Three of the 'numbers'. Darn I wish I played the lottery.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

I am not sure if it was the beer or the quality of the episode but wow. I loved it and the previews for next week look epic. Damn clair and jack bro and sis really caught me off guard damn.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

drew2k said:


> The Other was about to say that the Locke he recalled was para... [paralyzed].
> 
> Locke of course couldn't let his secret come out, so he took a gamble and tossed the Other into the fence. Locke won.


Why would anybody care?


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## Tracy RainH2o (Nov 18, 2005)

Finally an episode that didn't totally leave you thinking.......What the heck?

I too think Locke threw "Patch" into the fence to protect his secret. I wonder if Locke blew the satallite station on purpose. He's living his dream on the island. Not to mention he can walk.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

JMikeD said:


> Why would anybody care?


I don't think anyone ELSE would care, but Locke certainly wants to protect his secret. He wants to be looked at as a hero, not as a "freak". He wants to be a protector, not a curiosity. He's had father issues, self-esteem issues, and his paralysis. They defined him. The island lets him be someone new. He's going to protect that at all costs.


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

drew2k said:


> Much more than that. Jack's dad knocked on the door where Claire lived, and it was opened by the aunt (we were not sure of her relation to Claire at the time.) There were other clues in that episode that tied Claire and Jack's father together, but I can't recall them all right now.


Ah, it was nice to have the I told you so chance to my wife tonight. Back when that episode aired, I told her obviously they're setting this up as Jack's father is Claire's father. Naturally, she refused to believe me.


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## Tracy RainH2o (Nov 18, 2005)

vikingguy said:


> I am not sure if it was the beer or the quality of the episode but wow. I loved it and the previews for next week look epic. Damn clair and jack bro and sis really caught me off guard damn.


I guess the next big question is who is the father of Clair's baby.
Maybe it doesn't matter but why not tie that in too?


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Regarding Locke and Eyepatch Guy - seems like maybe there's some other secret than Locke's paralysis that he is trying to protect. Eyepatch Guy seemed to have met Locke before the island, and was about to say something about that.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

bdlucas said:


> Regarding Locke and Eyepatch Guy - seems like maybe there's some other secret than Locke's paralysis that he is trying to protect. Eyepatch Guy seemed to have met Locke before the island, and was about to say something about that.


He was cut off halfway through the word paralyzed, but there could have been something else too.


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## jonblaze (Jan 10, 2004)

Another Lost factoid of perhaps some consequence that has been the subject of past speculation: Claire's message said that this was the eightieth day the survivors had been stranded on the island (i.e., December 11, 2004). Juliet said several episodes back that she has been on the island for 3 years, 2 months, and 28 days. If, in Lost time, she made that statement on December 9--that is, two days prior to the "day" of this episode--then that would indeed make her original arrival date September 11, 2001.

Edit: And maybe not. The Lostpedia asserts that her arrival date was September 5, 2001 but I'm not sure how they were able to calculate that date.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Tracy RainH2o said:


> I guess the next big question is who is the father of Clair's baby.
> Maybe it doesn't matter but why not tie that in too?


That's not a mystery. A previous Claire flashback showed the father is some boyfriend who chickened out and left.



bdlucas said:


> Regarding Locke and Eyepatch Guy - seems like maybe there's some other secret than Locke's paralysis that he is trying to protect. Eyepatch Guy seemed to have met Locke before the island, and was about to say something about that.


I don't think it's that. Eyepatch guy was just demonstrating that he knows everything about the castaways. Like their last names, and that John was "para[lyzed]." Or maybe, he knows John because John, unlike Kate and Sayid, is on the list.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

drew2k said:


> The Other was about to say that the Locke he recalled was para... [paralyzed].
> 
> Locke of course couldn't let his secret come out, so he took a gamble and tossed the Other into the fence. Locke won.


I almost wonder if Danielle cut off the statement intentionally...


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## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

Bedtime...can't say much, but WOW! I think this is going to get exciting!

Also, I know that I read a _looooonnnng_ time ago in an old thread someone's guess about Claire's dad, and I had been thinking the same thing. So, who gets the award for calling it? I know it has been a popular theory, but who was the first to pin it down in a thread?


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

Great show.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I don't think anyone ELSE would care, but Locke certainly wants to protect his secret. He wants to be looked at as a hero, not as a "freak". He wants to be a protector, not a curiosity. He's had father issues, self-esteem issues, and his paralysis. They defined him. The island lets him be someone new. He's going to protect that at all costs.


I think more than being seen as a freak, Locke is concerned about being an object of pity. With that change, I agree with everything else you're saying.

Then again, I'm one who last week thought he didn't blow up the Flame on purpose, so I'm obviously not the best at reading the man.

Oh, and this is the best episode of the season, so far and may be the best episode since Walkabout.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Tracy RainH2o said:


> I guess the next big question is who is the father of Clair's baby.
> Maybe it doesn't matter but why not tie that in too?


The real mystery is who is the father of Sun's baby? Jin? Jae Lee? Michael? Charlie? The Smoke Monster?


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Chibbie said:


> The real mystery is who is the father of Sun's baby? Jin? Jae Lee? Michael? Charlie? The Smoke Monster?


Christian Shepard?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Chibbie said:


> The real mystery is who is the father of Sun's baby? Jin? Jae Lee? Michael? Charlie? The Smoke Monster?


How pregnant is she supposed to be, again? Was she pregnant on the plane? Because, if so, she'd be 80 days pregnant now. That's almost three months, and she should look a bit more pregnant than she looks.


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

Great episode, except one thing.

Someone shoot Claire and Charlie already, jeez.


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## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

jlb said:


> What about "Are you on the list?!?!"


What about it? We have known about a mysterious list since the very beginning nearly. Nothing new was revealed about this.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

stalemate said:


> You might be right, but it happened enough later that I never even considered that Locke was protecting his secret. I took it that he was testing Patchy's statement that the fence was not operational.


I thought it was both.

And it was interesting and chilling that Patchy said "Thank You."


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## avery (May 29, 2006)

aindik said:


> How pregnant is she supposed to be, again? Was she pregnant on the plane? Because, if so, she'd be 80 days pregnant now. That's almost three months, and she should look a bit more pregnant than she looks.


We don't know when she conceived. Even if she was _already_ pregnant when they arrived on the island, at just over 2.5 months she'd barely be showing - if at all. And, if The Island somehow corrected Jin's bad swimmers and they conceived sometime after the crash, it follows that she wouldn't be showing at all.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

never mind


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I thought the main island plot was fantastic. Top notch classic LOST. Too bad it was only about ten minutes long. I'll take it though.

Looks like the blank is about to hit the fan. And when I say "about to", of course I mean sometime later this season (or next)...

I'm glad Locke didn't blow up the building on accident. He's back to being interesting.

Oh, and Dude. She looked goth.


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

Nobody's mentioned the "Great Man", who is not Ben, that Mikhail said brought him to the island.


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Well ... that was fun!
> 
> I think this was the best ep of the season so far ...
> 
> ...


I got that Claire = Charlie's death vibe too.

I remember Locke complaining that Sayid didn't tell him about the C4, and if he had known he wouldn't have been so quick to push the buttons. What is it with Locke and buttons anyway?


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm starting to not trust Danielle. Well, moreso than before, I mean. If you watch the episode with the forethought that she knows Patches, her interruptions and cutoffs seem all well timed and intentional. I know her general body language is that of defensive, but it really looked like it played in to the back and forth. 

I also assumed that Patches was playing them and just swallowed some sort of cyanide pill. I was expecting some discovery by Kate and Locke as they stood over the body. Oh well.

I loved Goth Claire. Nice boots.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

Anybody else think Claire's baby is a little too big for being an infant? Per this episode when Charlie was reading the note, it said they have been on the island for 80 days. I don't remember exactly when the baby was born but even if he was born within the first week, that would make the baby less than 3 months old. That baby looks to be at least 6-8 months old.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Maybe the Island is just one big Rimbaldi device.......


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

EMoMoney said:


> Anybody else think Claire's baby is a little too big for being an infant? Per this episode when Charlie was reading the note, it said they have been on the island for 80 days. I don't remember exactly when the baby was born but even if he was born within the first week, that would make the baby less than 3 months old. That baby looks to be at least 6-8 months old.


But this is Hollywood, where using newborn infants for lengthy shoots is legitimately considered child abuse.

We just have to make allowances, and figure that just as the camera adds ten pounds, it also adds ten weeks.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Oh and in the MD lottery, in the pick 5 game, #'s 4, 16 and 23 were chosen. Three of the 'numbers'. Darn I wish I played the lottery.


I recall hearing about another real-life lottery that came even closer -- here we go: winning numbers were 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 24. (With an unrelated bonus number). This was on November 19, 2005, after Lost had started. 298 people matched 5 of the numbers correctly (4 times the average number of Match 5 winners).


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

aindik said:


> I don't think it's that. Eyepatch guy was just demonstrating that he knows everything about the castaways. Like their last names, and that John was "para[lyzed]." Or maybe, he knows John because John, unlike Kate and Sayid, is on the list.


I was trying to remember John's list status last night. Wasn't there an episode (maybe "Lockdown"?) where Ben confided to John that the reason Ben was approaching the losties' camp (when caught by Danielle) was because "I was coming to get YOU, John. You were on the list." (Paraphrasing from memory). Of course, Ben doesn't really have a good history of telling the truth, anyway...


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

EMoMoney said:


> Anybody else think Claire's baby is a little too big for being an infant? Per this episode when Charlie was reading the note, it said they have been on the island for 80 days. I don't remember exactly when the baby was born but even if he was born within the first week, that would make the baby less than 3 months old. That baby looks to be at least 6-8 months old.


It's looked that old since the day it was born- it's a melonhead.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

JYoung said:


> I thought it was both.
> 
> And it was interesting and chilling that Patchy said "Thank You."


ANd the woman he was with wanted him to shoot her before. Why do these people want to be killed rather than be captured or taken to the other place?



Honora said:


> I got that Claire = Charlie's death vibe too.
> 
> I remember Locke complaining that Sayid didn't tell him about the C4, and if he had known he wouldn't have been so quick to push the buttons. What is it with Locke and buttons anyway?


I was thinking that Claire is similar to Walt, where bad things that she thinks then come true. It sure looked frmo her talking to her mom like she was thinking she wished her mother was dead right at the moment they had the wreck that while she was driving, had no real recollection about what happened.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

danterner said:


> I was trying to remember John's list status last night. Wasn't there an episode (maybe "Lockdown"?) where Ben confided to John that the reason Ben was approaching the losties' camp (when caught by Danielle) was because "I was coming to get YOU, John. You were on the list." (Paraphrasing from memory). Of course, Ben doesn't really have a good history of telling the truth, anyway...


You beat me to the punch on this. At the time I thought Ben was saying anything to get John to befriend him. However, it was Jack, Sawyer and Kate who were captured, not Locke. While they needed Jack for surgery, why wouldn't they take Locke when they had the chance?

As far as Locke's secret, it must be something else than his being in a wheelchair. Remember, the black woman (can't remember name) saw Locke get on the plane.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

So no one's commented yet on the elephant in the room. How did Jack so quickly become, or apparently so, a happy, accepted, integrated member of their nice little suburban community?


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## 979hkz (Jul 11, 2006)

Rose saw Jack get on the plane.


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## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

aindik said:


> How pregnant is she supposed to be, again? Was she pregnant on the plane? Because, if so, she'd be 80 days pregnant now. That's almost three months, and she should look a bit more pregnant than she looks.


Many women pregnant with their first child don't show until late in the second trimester. I wore my pre-pregnancy jeans until I was six months pregnant.


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## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

bdlucas said:


> So no one's commented yet on the elephant in the room. How did Jack so quickly become, or apparently so, a happy, accepted, integrated member of their nice little suburban community?


Something to do with the brainwashing techniques used on Alex's boyfriend? (What was his name again?)


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Honora said:


> Nobody's mentioned the "Great Man", who is not Ben, that Mikhail said brought him to the island.


Nobody there, or nobody here?

I think he's talking about Hanso.


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## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

hefe said:


> Nobody there, or nobody here?
> 
> I think he's talking about Hanso.


Well now I feel stupid...seems so obvious now that you've mentioned that.


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## Tersanyus (Jun 27, 2004)

I looked serveral times but it looks like Mikhail's chest is moving as if he is still breathing after he is "killed." Look at him after they climb over the plyons after Kate turns him on his back. Could he actually still be alive? Maybe it was just a production issue but in the closeup of Kate and Mikhails body he appears to be breathing. Perhaps you live a few minutes after this fence shocks you.

Also a bit confusing was why they went over the pylons surrounding the barracks. If you look closely at the map Sayid has you clearly see "Subterranean Passage 20' Deep" on 2 places. Why not go look for these? Perhaps those entrance/exits to the Barracks might be guarded.

I would also think it very likely that the Others would know if/when this "electrified fence" goes off.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

bdlucas said:


> So no one's commented yet on the elephant in the room. How did Jack so quickly become, or apparently so, a happy, accepted, integrated member of their nice little suburban community?


He's banging Juliet, clearly. :up:


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> He's banging Juliet, clearly. :up:


I don't know... Maybe with the brainwashing, they gave Big Gay Tom a new friend.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Tersanyus said:


> I looked serveral times but it looks like Mikhail's chest is moving as if he is still breathing after he is "killed." Look at him after they climb over the plyons after Kate turns him on his back. Could he actually still be alive? Maybe it was just a production issue but in the closeup of Kate and Mikhails body he appears to be breathing. Perhaps you live a few minutes after this fence shocks you.
> 
> Also a bit confusing was why they went over the pylons surrounding the barracks. If you look closely at the map Sayid has you clearly see "Subterranean Passage 20' Deep" on 2 places. Why not go look for these? Perhaps those entrance/exits to the Barracks might be guarded.
> 
> I would also think it very likely that the Others would know if/when this "electrified fence" goes off.


the real question is, how does the fence still work after the EMP went off?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Cearbhaill said:


> So the teasers say we're going to find out <snip>


Haven't you been here long enough to know you shouldn't post what's in the "teasers"?


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

hefe said:


> Nobody there, or nobody here?
> 
> I think he's talking about Hanso.


No, I think he is talking about Jacob.


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## Charlutz (Apr 7, 2005)

aindik said:


> How pregnant is she supposed to be, again? Was she pregnant on the plane? Because, if so, she'd be 80 days pregnant now. That's almost three months, and she should look a bit more pregnant than she looks.


She was likely not pregnant on the plane. The pregnancy is likely an 'island miracle' like Locke's regaining the ability to walk and Rose being cured of her cancer/disease. I suppose there is some possibility that her boyfriend is the father and she was pregnant on the plane, but she clearly didn't know she was pregnant until well after they arrived on the island. At 80 days, she wouldn't show much at all, and if Jin is the father, she could only be 30-45 days pregnant or so.

The security system made no sense. Why hide the camp in the middle of the island with a huge very visible perimeter? It more or less announces you are there. Also, pretty easy to defeat it if you have multiple people as we saw. Only thing that makes sense is that the security was designed to keep out animals.

I'm anxious to find out the explanation for Jack settling in with the Others in what, 4 days? Kate is gonna be pissed when she talks to him. This development is the first thing that's really grabbed me in a while.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

cherry ghost said:


> Haven't you been here long enough to know you shouldn't post what's in the "teasers"?


yeah i was reading that post til i saw teasers or whatever and JUMPED right past it, but did read one thing I'm upset I read.

Lost I like to go in as fresh as I can each week.


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

Couldn't Jack being settled in just be an illusion? It looks some what fake to me, and how many other illusions have we seen so far?

Plus, they have to know the alarm went off with Patchy. It appears to be a setup.


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## thedudeabides (Aug 7, 2003)

hefe said:


> Nobody there, or nobody here?
> 
> I think he's talking about Hanso.


or Jacob. {edit} I see someone beat me to it.

Its definitely Jacob. One thing I think is fairly certain at this point (at least to me, anyway) is that the "Others" or "Hostiles" are not part of the Dharma Initiative.


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## thedudeabides (Aug 7, 2003)

Squeak said:


> Couldn't Jack being settled in just be an illusion? It looks some what fake to me, and how many other illusions have we seen so far?
> 
> Plus, they have to know the alarm went off with Patchy. It appears to be a setup.


Jack could easily be playing along to get them to drop their guard. Or he's been brainwashed, like Carl. Who knows at this point.

There was no alarm. Just a security device that caused Mikhail's brain to explode.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> the real question is, how does the fence still work after the EMP went off?


Locke called it a sonic pulse.

Edit: Nevermind. I thought you were saying the fence emitted and EMP...


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## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

thedudeabides said:


> There was no alarm. Just a security device that caused Mikhail's brain to explode.


How do you know? If you were to go through all the trouble of building this device, you wouldn't want to know when it went off?


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> the real question is, how does the fence still work after the EMP went off?


That's easy......they had it hooked up to a really, really, really big UPS!


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

hefe said:


> Nobody there, or nobody here?
> 
> I think he's talking about Hanso.


I'm thinking either Hanso or Whitmore. We know Hanso started DHARMA and if these are really two seperate groups of people, it could be that Whitmore started his own group in order to stop Hanso's group from doing the research they were doing.

Also, it was so obvious that Locke is up to something. We found out this week that he did blow the Flame on purpose. I suspected that he did. But he seems to be turning to the dark side...could he be infected by that mysterious virus Danielle keeps talking about.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

It would be cool if they came out with a movie that is the history of the island up to when the plane crashes! Be cool to have a DHARMA /others war, and Russo in the mix, be a fun 2 hours


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Squeak said:


> Couldn't Jack being settled in just be an illusion? It looks some what fake to me, and how many other illusions have we seen so far?
> 
> Plus, they have to know the alarm went off with Patchy. It appears to be a setup.


I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's a setup. Four days clearly should not be enough for them to break Jack. I would have thought some kind of time warp but in the previews


Spoiler



they show Ben with bandages on his back, so it is still very soon after his surgery.



As for the alarm going off, this is an island full of wild animals, and I'm sure the perimeter alarm goes off on a regular basis. There were no camera shown (there would have to be an awful lot of cameras) so I don't think that The Others know of Mikhail's demise yet (unless, of course, there are other ways for them to know).

I am seriously beginning to think the Island is some sort of Harsh Realm type of simulation, except getting "killed" gets the people out. That would explain why Mikhail said "Thank you" to Locke. It would actually explain just about everything, including the inter-connections of the people prior to getting on the Island (assuming that part of the "simulation" involves off-Island activities).


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Surprised no one has mentioned the opening eye close-up. It's been a while since we've seen one of those, right?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Charlutz said:


> She was likely not pregnant on the plane. The pregnancy is likely an 'island miracle' like Locke's regaining the ability to walk and Rose being cured of her cancer/disease. I suppose there is some possibility that her boyfriend is the father and she was pregnant on the plane, but she clearly didn't know she was pregnant until well after they arrived on the island. At 80 days, she wouldn't show much at all, and if Jin is the father, she could only be 30-45 days pregnant or so.


On the other hand, she's skinny enough that she should start showing by the time the fetus hits, oh, 10-20 cells...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Maybe Jack is doing the assimiliation that some prisoners go thru. He knows he is there for maybe awhile and accepts his fate for the time being. He 'likes' his captors. Isn't there some pysch sort of thing for this?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

wprager said:


> I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's a setup. Four days clearly should not be enough for them to break Jack. I would have thought some kind of time warp but in the previews
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I agree that the fence is more like a bug zapping device. With so much wildlife, they don't care what gets killed and where, as long as they don't cross the perimeter.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Tersanyus said:


> I looked serveral times but it looks like Mikhail's chest is moving as if he is still breathing after he is "killed." Look at him after they climb over the plyons after Kate turns him on his back. Could he actually still be alive? Maybe it was just a production issue but in the closeup of Kate and Mikhails body he appears to be breathing. Perhaps you live a few minutes after this fence shocks you...


Well last night was the first time I've watched Lost in HD....but in HD you could clearly see blood "spurting" (and I really mean spurting out far!) from his ears, so I'm pretty sure the breathing was just bad acting.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Cearbhaill said:


> So the teasers say we're going to find out .....


Please spoilerize....not all of us watch previews.


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## Espo (Jan 7, 2003)

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the biggest flaw in their detour over the security "fence" - no exit strategy! When they come back to escape, they have no way to get back over the pillars because the height of the tree branch. In a addition to freeing Jack, I guess they will have to go around looking for a ladder. 
Also, I think we'll find Jack just acting friendly so he can get more information about the Others to aid him with his escape.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> I'm thinking either Hanso or Whitmore.......


Or DeGroot?

By the way, interesting to look at the first verses of Mike and the Mechanics' song "Par Avion"



> Another day has passed me by
> And there's an island in the sun
> To see me through
> Another day in paradise
> ...


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

The note Clair sent on the bird should also have given info about Dharma since there are food drops occurring; that'd really help someone locate the island easier than anything else that she wrote.


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## swizzlest (Sep 13, 2003)

Wasn't Jack on the list? Is it possible the others told Jack "everything" they couldn't tell Kate because she wasn't?


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## Charlutz (Apr 7, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Please spoilerize....not all of us watch previews.


You should also spoilerize your quote, since you just repeated the spoiler for those of us who missed it the first time.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jeff125va said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned the opening eye close-up. It's been a while since we've seen one of those, *right*?


Yep, it was, in fact, the _right_ eye.

Actually, the right/left threw me a bit. When Claire said she was driving I thought she was protecting her mother (since she was sitting in the right-hand-side seat). Then I remembered that they were in Australia (the airbag obscured the steering wheel).


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

jamesbobo said:


> As far as Locke's secret, it must be something else than his being in a wheelchair. Remember, the black woman (can't remember name) saw Locke get on the plane.





979hkz said:


> Rose saw Jack get on the plane.


Rose saw Locke in the airport while they were waiting for the plane. They showed it in a flashback, and plus Rose had a conversation with Locke about how they knew the island was special.



brianp6621 said:


> Originally Posted by jlb
> What about "Are you on the list?!?!"
> 
> What about it? We have known about a mysterious list since the very beginning nearly. Nothing new was revealed about this.


well, now we know Locke has a superpower.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Locke called it a sonic pulse.


Locke was talking about the "security perimeter," not the electromagnetic "anomaly."


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Maybe Jack is doing the assimiliation that some prisoners go thru. He knows he is there for maybe awhile and accepts his fate for the time being. He 'likes' his captors. Isn't there some pysch sort of thing for this?


It's called Stockholme Syndrome. Not sure that we're seeing it in action here, but in any event that's the psych thing to which you refer. I don't have a better explanation for his behavior. Maybe he was planning on using the game of catch as an excuse to make his way closer to the forest-line and eventually make a break for it.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Charlutz said:


> You should also spoilerize your quote, since you just repeated the spoiler for those of us who missed it the first time.


Actually the only info spoiled was _when_ that particular mystery would be revealed. We always knew that, eventually, we will find out, and since many people here already know whose backstory is being shown in advance, most would be already anticipating it. But, then again, we *all*know that sometimes spoilers do get posted without spoiler tags, and if someone is really that spoiler-phobic the best thing to do is to disconnect that modem and hide out in your close until Wednesday night 

How difficult would it be to grant some people moderator privileges so they can go in a actually add spoiler tags, instead of just scolding the offender?


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

wprager said:


> Yep, it was, in fact, the _right_ eye.
> 
> Actually, the right/left threw me a bit. When Claire said she was driving I thought she was protecting her mother (since she was sitting in the right-hand-side seat). Then I remembered that they were in Australia (the airbag obscured the steering wheel).


it was left eye in the opening, in the flashback, and then, right eye after the flashback in island time... or the other way around... they've never done that before, i believe.

also, did claire crash on purpose to kill her mom in anger? is that the guilt she has? or just from her last words?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Charlutz said:


> You should also spoilerize your quote, since you just repeated the spoiler for those of us who missed it the first time.


Just edited it...sorry.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Squeak said:


> No, I think he is talking about Jacob.


I don't recall Jacob. When was that mentioned other than the brainwashing video?

("God loves you as he loves Jacob...")


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> He's banging Juliet, clearly. :up:


Wouldn't that be a corker if Kate saw Jack and Juliet getting cozy.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

wprager said:


> Actually the only info spoiled was _when_ that particular mystery would be revealed. We always knew that, eventually, we will find out, and since many people here already know whose backstory is being shown in advance, most would be already anticipating it. But, then again, we *all*know that sometimes spoilers do get posted without spoiler tags, and if someone is really that spoiler-phobic the best thing to do is to disconnect that modem and hide out in your close until Wednesday night
> 
> How difficult would it be to grant some people moderator privileges so they can go in a actually add spoiler tags, instead of just scolding the offender?


spoiler is a spoiler... just becuz it happens at times doesn't mean we should be resigned to it... we should work to make the boards "thread-legal".

besides, "scolding the offender" is a teaching mechanism... a lesson in board etiquette, if you will.

IRS btw


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I was surprised that Jack was so well assimilated. I figured they used the brainwashing area on him, but I assume there is some comedown from that before you get to bliss. Now, maybe there is something inside the area that does it or a drug.


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## rbraddes (Aug 27, 2005)

Lee L said:


> I was surprised that Jack was so well assimilated. I figured they used the brainwashing area on him, but I assume there is some comedown from that before you get to bliss. Now, maybe there is something inside the area that does it or a drug.


I thought that Jack was promised a trip home... Why would he be hostile towards the Others if he's about to get on a boat off the island?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

pmyers said:


> Well last night was the first time I've watched Lost in HD....but in HD you could clearly see blood "spurting" (and I really mean spurting out far!) from his ears, so I'm pretty sure the breathing was just bad acting.


I agree, that blood was spurting something fierce. It was so much that it was almost humorous. Almost.

Sawyer almost calling Claire a nickname was pretty funny. What was he trying to call her? I couldn't figure it out.

Sawyer was reading The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. I'm not familiar with it to just spout off the top of my head, so I'll let others comment here.

GREAT episode though. Next week's looks to be even better. That's not a spoiler. 

Greg


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

gchance said:


> Sawyer almost calling Claire a nickname was pretty funny. What was he trying to call her? I couldn't figure it out.
> 
> Greg


Barbie?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Barbie?


That's what I thought, too. Quite appropriate by the way...


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Lucky for Jack he decided to hit on Kate rather than Claire. That woulda been awkward.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> That's what I thought, too. Quite appropriate by the way...


So, does that make Charlie another shrimp on the Barbie?


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## TheGreyOwl (Aug 18, 2003)

One question my wife and I had was, why if the island cured Rose's cancer did it not cure Ben's cancer (spinal tumor)? And didn't Jack talk to Rose and find out her cancer was cured? If so, you would think he'd be suspicious of Ben's cancer.

Another out-there theory we had was what if Jack was in fact the "great man" Mikhail referred to? It would be an interesting twist if Jack was in on it from the beginning, and this whole thing was a way to get him back to the others without giving it away. But then, a lot of things don't fit with that theory...


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

I thought the note on the bird was a bit . . . silly. I hope they waterproofed the note. Although I'm not sure what type of bird it was, I'm willing to bet it will land in the water to rest at least once.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

TheGreyOwl said:


> One question my wife and I had was, why if the island cured Rose's cancer did it not cure Ben's cancer (spinal tumor)? And didn't Jack talk to Rose and find out her cancer was cured? If so, you would think he'd be suspicious of Ben's cancer.


Jack doesn't believe that the island cures things. Jack is a "man of science."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

aindik said:


> Jack doesn't believe that the island cures things. Jack is a "man of science."


And personally, I wouldn't blame the island a bit if it just didn't like Ben very much...


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

One thing we learned this episode: Tom can't throw a football worth crap.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

For the love of all things holy in the universe, let it not be brainwashing. That clockwork orange scene and the entire notion is incredibly cliched and totally ridiculous.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

JYoung said:


> Wouldn't that be a corker if Kate saw Jack and Juliet getting cozy.


Didn't Jack already see Kate and Sawyer on the TV monitor while they were getting cozy? Kate wouldn't have much to complain about, in that case.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> For the love of all things holy in the universe, let it not be brainwashing. That clockwork orange scene and the entire notion is incredibly cliched and totally ridiculous.


Well given the fact when JACK left the prison island he was not brainwashed and the brainwash room was on the prison island. So I really doubt that. But I guess they could have more than 1 brainwash room.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

dswallow said:


> The note Clair sent on the bird should also have given info about Dharma since there are food drops occurring; that'd really help someone locate the island easier than anything else that she wrote.


The note on the bird was a joke. One would think they would give hard info on where they are, or hints/clues on how to find them (which they did a bit of), But all of the soft info (we're making do, some have lived, some not), WTF did that have to do with anything? It only made sense in the context of Claire being a Barbie; she wrote it, and it fit the episode, but it was a waste. And of course Charlie (the shrimp on the Barbie--good one danterner!) has to say what a great note it is, I guess because he's already been rude enough to her this episode, time to be nice. And it looked like he was using a twistie tie to attach it to the bird's leg. Yeah, that's gonna make the migration to Antarctica & back  . Claire's a sweet girl, but her character has the brains of a Barb...

I don't think Jack has been brainwashed. Not enough time has passed, and it doesn't fit the character. I think either he has accepted his position (for now), or reached a deal of some sort. Maybe Ben said the next sub leaves for Hawaii in 2 weeks, so Jack might as well play nice 'till it either happens or not.

Locke's a tool; he's gone from being someone you loved to watch, to a character that you wish would get smoke-monsterized.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

astrohip said:


> The note on the bird was a joke. One would think they would give hard info on where they are, or hints/clues on how to find them (which they did a bit of), But all of the soft info (we're making do, some have lived, some not), WTF did that have to do with anything?


Well, she gave all the information they had--when the plane turned, where it was headed...what else could she say?


astrohip said:


> I don't think Jack has been brainwashed. Not enough time has passed, and it doesn't fit the character. I think either he has accepted his position (for now), or reached a deal of some sort.


Maybe they just convinced him that they're the good guys!


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Didn't eyepatch guy say that they could leave the island but nobody could come to the island or was it the other way around? I can't remember. If that's the case, maybe they didn't have a problem letting Walt and Michael leave (after giving them the correct heading) because it would be nearly impossible for them to return. And maybe Jack's plan is to be nice so they'll let him go home and he's hoping that he'll send for help but they won't be able to get back if that's the case. I don't know.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> Didn't eyepatch guy say that they could leave the island but nobody could come to the island or was it the other way around? I can't remember. If that's the case, maybe they didn't have a problem letting Walt and Michael leave (after giving them the correct heading) because it would be nearly impossible for them to return. And maybe Jack's plan is to be nice so they'll let him go home and he's hoping that he'll send for help but they won't be able to get back if that's the case. I don't know.


he said they could leave and comeback whenever, but ever since the emp (hatch explosion) it took out the sonar thing and they wouldn't be able to find their way back now


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> Didn't eyepatch guy say that they could leave the island but nobody could come to the island or was it the other way around? I can't remember.


He said that they could leave, but, since the hatch blew, the magnetic signal that allows them to come back is out of commission. So, he could leave, but he could never come back.

Kate: Why would you want to come back?
Patch guy: You wouldn't understand.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I don't think Jack has been brainwashed. Not enough time has passed, and it doesn't fit the character. I think either he has accepted his position (for now), or reached a deal of some sort. Maybe Ben said the next sub leaves for Hawaii in 2 weeks, so Jack might as well play nice 'till it either happens or not.


Playing nice is one thing, but he looked to be truly enyoying it.


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

Anyone else think that goth Claire looked like Jenny Riley on the Black Donelly's??


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## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> On the other hand, she's skinny enough that she should start showing by the time the fetus hits, oh, 10-20 cells...


I think you show later when you are skinny...like I said, with my first, I was six months before I had to wear maternity clothes.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

So after ~80 days, why isn't Claire's hair growing back in dark? Unless the dark hair was the dye job. Did they find a stash of Widmore Hair Color too?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

hefe said:


> So after ~80 days, why isn't Claire's hair growing back in dark? Unless the dark hair was the dye job. Did they find a stash of Widmore Hair Color too?


She probably dyed it back. Her mom and aunt both had blonde hair and Claire looked like she was going through some punk days so it wouldn't surprise me if she dyed it black.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Don't women stop coloring their hair when pregnant?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I dyed my hair when I was pregnant.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

It's quite a coincidence that almost everybody in the tail section was on the list, but the only one from the mid section worth saving was an unborn child.

And wasn't it convenient that Claire didn't want to know the name of her biological father. The others seem to know everything about the losties ... maybe they'll tell Jack he has a sister and a nephew.

Maybe not ...


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## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

TheGreyOwl said:


> One question my wife and I had was, why if the island cured Rose's cancer did it not cure Ben's cancer (spinal tumor)? And didn't Jack talk to Rose and find out her cancer was cured? If so, you would think he'd be suspicious of Ben's cancer.


Perhaps because Ben is an island native? Well, at least he _says_ he is (but I tend to believe him).


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

hefe said:


> So after ~80 days, why isn't Claire's hair growing back in dark? Unless the dark hair was the dye job. Did they find a stash of Widmore Hair Color too?


The black hair was made to look obviously dyed (and not all that great a job, like she did it herself), including her eyebrows. When she was "more mature" in the final flashback, she was a blonde. That was when she stopped trying to rebel against her mother and look as little like her as possible.


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

Am I the only one who's grown tired of Locke's secrecy and willingness to put others at risk for his own personal agenda? Actually, let me put it another way: Am I the only one who's grown tired of Locke _continuously getting away with_ secrecy and his willingness to put others at risk for his own personal agenda? I really wish somebody would kick his *ss already...


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## MFruchey (May 25, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


> Don't women stop coloring their hair when pregnant?


Pregnant women are advised against dying it with permanent color in the first trimester, but after that, it's considered ok. (But I think Claire's dark hair was a dye-job, not the blonde.)


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, she gave all the information they had--when the plane turned, where it was headed...what else could she say?


Help, there's a bunch of craze people from "The DHARMA Initiative" on this island trying to kill us.

That could potentially help someone find the island.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, she gave all the information they had--when the plane turned, where it was headed...what else could she say?


Was Jin's watch broken? Remember he had that timepiece that he fought with Michael over? If it is a working watch, and they've been keeping track of how long they've been on the island (80 days, according to Claire), they could maybe say something like:

"On [today's date], the sun set at X o'clock." They'd have to specify whatever timezone Jin's watch was set for. But then, given that information, couldn't their approximate longitude be extrapolated?

They could also reference the date that monsoon season started for them. Looking back at the weather patterns for that date, you could narrow it down further?

I'm not sure that any of that would really work and be helpful, but its no worse than "some have lived, some have died..."


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Mike Farrington said:


> Help, there's a bunch of craze people from "The DHARMA Initiative" on this island trying to kill us.
> 
> That could potentially help someone find the island.


People outside the island don't know of DHARMA. They know of the Hanso Foundation, which has all the nifty Caveman commercials and personal appearances on Kimmel.

Greg


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

jlb said:


> What about "Are you on the list?!?!"


It would be funnier if instead of an eye patch the guy had horn rim glasses


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

This list the Others speak of is a list of people with super powers right?  Oh, wait, nevermind...


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

gchance said:


> Sawyer was reading The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. I'm not familiar with it


I'm not that familiar with The Fountainhead either, but another book by Ayn Rand--Atlas Shrugged--is about "superior" or more talented people checking out of society and moving somewhere to start a society of their own. That could fit here.

I wondered too how they were going to get back across the barrier. Maybe it's not only to keep people and animals out, but to keep people in. If Ben showed it to Jack, it would certainly discourage him from trying to escape. I don't think he's brainwashed. It makes sense to try to fit in and keep them off their guard, plus that one little glimpse of Jack could have been just another misleading tease. If their brainwashing is so effective, why didn't it work on Alex and Carl?

Isn't it a smeek to discuss one little spoiler mistake in 10 more posts?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> It would be funnier if instead of an eye patch the guy had horn rim glasses





> If my wife calls while I'm in shagging my secretary, tell her I'm at a board meeting. That way I'll be able to continue shagging my secretary without my wife knowing about it.
> 
> If my wife were to find out about me and my secretary; that would be bad. As bad as losing the list.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

After rewatching the beginning I found it funny when Desmond comes to ask Charlie if he wanted to go hunting. Claire then looks at the two as she realizes something up...but I thought she was going to come to the conclusion that Desmond was gay and was hitting on Charlie or something. Anyone else get that impression or was it just me???


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> After rewatching the beginning I found it funny when Desmond comes to ask Charlie if he wanted to go hunting. Claire then looks at the two as she realizes something up...but I thought she was going to come to the conclusion that Desmond was gay and was hitting on Charlie or something. Anyone else get that impression or was it just me???


It was you. All you.


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## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

lodica1967 said:


> Anyone else think that goth Claire looked like Jenny Riley on the Black Donelly's??


If you mean skanky, then yes, I do.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Squeak said:


> No, I think he is talking about Jacob.





thedudeabides said:


> or Jacob. {edit} I see someone beat me to it.
> 
> Its definitely Jacob. One thing I think is fairly certain at this point (at least to me, anyway) is that the "Others" or "Hostiles" are not part of the Dharma Initiative.





jlb said:


> Or DeGroot?


Who is Jacob? I remember Hanso being discussed in the orientation films, but were DeGroot and Jacob also discussed in those films?

If not ... where are these names coming from?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> I'm not that familiar with The Fountainhead either, but another book by Ayn Rand--Atlas Shrugged--is about "superior" or more talented people checking out of society and moving somewhere to start a society of their own. That could fit here.
> 
> I wondered too how they were going to get back across the barrier. Maybe it's not only to keep people and animals out, but to keep people in. If Ben showed it to Jack, it would certainly discourage him from trying to escape. I don't think he's brainwashed. It makes sense to try to fit in and keep them off their guard, plus that one little glimpse of Jack could have been just another misleading tease. If their brainwashing is so effective, why didn't it work on Alex and Carl?
> 
> Isn't it a smeek to discuss one little spoiler mistake in 10 more posts?


someone's review of The Fountainhead

"5 stars - The Fountainhead has become an enduring piece of literature, more popular now than when published in 1943. On the surface, it is a story of one man, Howard Roark, and his struggles as an architect in the face of a successful rival, Peter Keating, and a newspaper columnist, Ellsworth Toohey. But the book addresses a number of universal themes: the strength of the individual, the tug between good and evil, the threat of fascism. The confrontation of those themes, along with the amazing stroke of Rand's writing, combine to give this book its enduring influence. Ayn Rand is a writer of great power. She has a subtle and ingenious mind and the capacity of writing brilliantly, beautifully, bitterly."


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> the real question is, how does the fence still work after the EMP went off?


EMP damages circuits by initiating voltage surges, which could cause arcs and shorts that kill electronics.

Microprocessors are very succeptable, because of how close their electrical pathways are.

Circuit boards would be the next weakest thing.

Followed by thin wire electronics.

Followed by thick wire electronics (IE, power supplies, generators, and other things that are designed to handle high voltages).

So, that fence could be hooked up to a generator and the EMP wasn't strong enough to damage it. Or it could be shielded. You would want to make a perimiter defense system as robust as possible. Especially if you knew you were going to have EM experiments running on some part of the island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

"Older, vacuum tube (valve) based equipment is much less vulnerable to EMP"

"The pulse is powerful enough to cause long metal objects (such as cables) to act as antennae and generate high voltages when the pulse passes. These voltages, and the associated high currents, can destroy unshielded electronics and even many wires. There are no known biological effects of EMP. The ionized air also disrupts radio traffic that would normally bounce off the ionosphere.

One can shield electronics by wrapping them completely in conductive mesh, or any other form of Faraday cage. Of course radios cannot operate when shielded, because broadcast radio waves can't reach them."


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I think the real question about the fence is: Who is it supposed to be protecting the barracks from?


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> I think the real question about the fence is: Who is it supposed to be protecting the barracks from?


Polar bears!


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## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Who says it's protecting the barracks _from_ something. Maybe it's designed to keep the people in the barracks _in_?


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

tanstaafl said:


> Who says it's protecting the barracks _from_ something. Maybe it's designed to keep the people in the barracks _in_?


I bet you are right. Juliet said the Ben told her he'd let her go home. Sounds to me like they are captive. They have this perfect little neighborhood, but cannot leave it.


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## jpicard (Oct 26, 2004)

I think it is interesting how this episode began seconds just after claire car crash. We didn't see the actual crash. Just the same with how the first episode of Lost began just after the plane crash, we didn't see it's actua crash either.

"Are you on the list?" reminded me of NBC's show "Heroes' -- Wouldn't that be clever if we saw some sort of cross over? (it'll never happen).

I think it is interesting also how Sun's hair is growing so fast but yet none of the other people on the Island have longer hair after just 80 days. The first episode has her hair just at her shoulders and now it is halfway down her back. 

I remember an episode a while back where two people were down underneath in a basement or crawspace or something and looking at the foundation footings and saying how hot it really it under there.. Why haven't they worked on this?

I thought that while Kate and company were trekking through the jungle they would come upon the big pile of blue tubes with reports from the reporting station below. But I guess not..


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Anyone have any idea why they called this episode "Par Avion" (by airplane for those who don't know French)?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

JMikeD said:


> Didn't Jack already see Kate and Sawyer on the TV monitor while they were getting cozy? Kate wouldn't have much to complain about, in that case.


She doesn't know Jack so them but yes, that's why it would be a corker.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> Anyone have any idea why they called this episode "Par Avion" (by airplane for those who don't know French)?


It's a common label for airmail. The meaning seems pretty straightforward.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

mqpickles said:


> Anyone have any idea why they called this episode "Par Avion" (by airplane for those who don't know French)?


Air Mail is used by the post office for international mail. They were sending a message attached to the bird on an international flight.


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> I think the real question about the fence is: Who is it supposed to be protecting the barracks from?


The Hostiles. In last weeks episode the video footage was that showed on the chess computer said "hit 77" if the hostiles have infiltrated this location (paraprasing). This goes back to my question I posted in that thread. Did we know previous to (last weeks episode) that the Dharma Initiative knew there where "Hostiles" on the Island? These two things reinforces what many have said about two groups of people being on the island.

Here is my post from last week.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jpicard said:


> I remember an episode a while back where two people were down underneath in a basement or crawspace or something and looking at the foundation footings and saying how hot it really it under there.. Why haven't they worked on this?


Are you referring to the last episode when Sayid and Kate were in the basement of the Flame station? If so, this station blew up, so that's why they're not working on this.

Are you referring to last season when they were in the crawl space underneath the Swan hatch? If so, this hatch imploded, so that's why they're not working on this.

If you're not referring to either of these things, then I have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

markz said:


> I bet you are right. Juliet said the Ben told her he'd let her go home. Sounds to me like they are captive. They have this perfect little neighborhood, but cannot leave it.


I don't know---if you recall, when the Others saw the plane go down, Ben quickly dispatched Ethan to one side of the island and...what's-his-name to the other. There was no issue of having to turn off the fence from some central and protected control room.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Tersanyus said:


> <snip>
> 
> Also a bit confusing was why they went over the pylons surrounding the barracks. If you look closely at the map Sayid has you clearly see "Subterranean Passage 20' Deep" on 2 places. Why not go look for these? Perhaps those entrance/exits to the Barracks might be guarded.
> 
> I would also think it very likely that the Others would know if/when this "electrified fence" goes off.





Amnesia said:


> I don't know---if you recall, when the Others saw the plane go down, Ben quickly dispatched Ethan to one side of the island and...what's-his-name to the other. There was no issue of having to turn off the fence from some central and protected control room.


Maybe they each used one of these passages.

Or maybe key personnel on the island have a remote on their keychain or something to deactivate it when they need or something.


----------



## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> He's banging Juliet, clearly. :up:


That would convert me.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

jpicard said:


> I thought that while Kate and company were trekking through the jungle they would come upon the big pile of blue tubes with reports from the reporting station below. But I guess not..


They found that at the end of last season and that was where Michael (under the Others' instructions) had been told to lead them into the trap. Presumably that would be a long way from anything important since the Others would want to prevent anyone returning to the site from finding them. So the tube pile is probably nowhere near either the Flame or the Barracks.


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

i think Jack is faking it. 

He was probably told by the others that his friends were coming for him and that the best thing for their safety would to be to convince them to turn back. he clearly wanted kate and sawyer to save themselves earlier and didn't want them trying to rescue him... so the best way to discourage them from attempting a rescue is to pretend to have gone native.


----------



## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

acej80 said:


> The Hostiles. In last weeks episode the video footage was that showed on the chess computer said "hit 77" if the hostiles have infiltrated this location (paraprasing). This goes back to my question I posted in that thread. Did we know previous to (last weeks episode) that the Dharma Initiative knew there where "Hostiles" on the Island? These two things reinforces what many have said about two groups of people being on the island.
> 
> Here is my post from last week.


Speculation about the hostiles, spoilerized just for the heck of it:


Spoiler



I often wonder if there were ever any previous hostiles. I bet the losties are hostiles, as foretold in some sort of prophecy (or future remote viewing). I wonder if the others knew years in advance who would crash, and that is why they know so damned much about our heroes.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

drew2k said:


> Who is Jacob? I remember Hanso being discussed in the orientation films, but were DeGroot and Jacob also discussed in those films?
> 
> If not ... where are these names coming from?


Jacob was just a name that flashed by on the Clockwork Orange brainwashing video.

The deGroots, however, were mentioned in one of the orientation films...I think the first one that Desmond first showed Locke. I think they were supposedly scientist who helped found the DHARMA initiative. Charles and Karen DeGroot I think were their names.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Jacob was also mentioned by Danny when he said "Shepard wasn't even on Jacob's list."


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

hefe said:


> It's a common label for airmail. The meaning seems pretty straightforward.





betts4 said:


> Air Mail is used by the post office for international mail. They were sending a message attached to the bird on an international flight.


[forehead slap]Of course.[/forehead slap] Thanks, guys.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

acej80 said:


> The Hostiles. In last weeks episode the video footage was that showed on the chess computer said "hit 77" if the hostiles have infiltrated this location (paraprasing). This goes back to my question I posted in that thread. Did we know previous to (last weeks episode) that the Dharma Initiative knew there where "Hostiles" on the Island? These two things reinforces what many have said about two groups of people being on the island.
> 
> Here is my post from last week.


Last season, Kelvin (Desmond's old Darma partner played by Clancy Brown) referred to "the hostiles." I remember noting that he used a term other than "the others," which I thought was realistic (i.e., that not everyone would independently use the same term).


----------



## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

I don't think anyone has mentioned the best line of the night yet. Locke after he pushed the eyepatch guy through the barrier and he died, "Sorry about that..." :up: The irreverent way he said that had us cracking up! Although I needed something to get over watching the guy foam at the mouth. :down: 

Cheryl


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Figaro said:


> Jacob was also mentioned by Danny when he said "Shepard wasn't even on Jacob's list."


Ah yes, I had forgotten...

Season 3, Episode 6 - "I Do"



> [Juliet hands him the scalpel and he starts cutting. Pickett is up a tier in observation, watching.]
> 
> PICKETT: Let's go. [Walks off with a man]
> 
> ...


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

speedcouch said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned the best line of the night yet. Locke after he pushed the eyepatch guy through the barrier and he died, "Sorry about that..." :up: The irreverent way he said that had us cracking up! Although I needed something to get over watching the guy foam at the mouth. :down:
> 
> Cheryl


I loved it. It reminded me of him in the hatch with everything flying around and the computer was destroyed saying "I was wrong."


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

I'm a bit confused about Desmond. If he knew that Charlie would die trying to retrieve the seagull, why did he fire the gun to scare off the birds that Jin & Claire were just about to snare?


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Martin Tupper said:


> I'm a bit confused about Desmond. If he knew that Charlie would die trying to retrieve the seagull, why did he fire the gun to scare off the birds that Jin & Claire were just about to snare?


I've been viewing Desmond's visions as flexible, when he stops one way that Charlie kicks the bucket, another gets put into play to try and "make the universe right" So when he scared the birds away in the trap, that version of the birds and Charlie went away, and the one on the cliffs came into play.

Or it could just be my way of suspending disbelief.

This could lead to a darn lot of visions if he keeps saving Charlie 

Diane


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> I've been viewing Desmond's visions as flexible, when he stops one way that Charlie kicks the bucket, another gets put into play to try and "make the universe right" So when he scared the birds away in the trap, that version of the birds and Charlie went away, and the one on the cliffs came into play.
> 
> Or it could just be my way of suspending disbelief.
> 
> ...


According to the jewelry salesperson in Desmond's "is this a flashback or a vision" episode, when you "correct" something that you know is about to happen, "the universe has a way of course correcting." Desmond is trying to avoid that, knowing full well that Charlie dead is what the universe wants. He asked the jewelry salesperson why she didn't save the guy in the red shoes from the falling building (or whatever that was). She said because the universe would eventually kill him anyway.


----------



## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> I've been viewing Desmond's visions as flexible, when he stops one way that Charlie kicks the bucket, another gets put into play to try and "make the universe right" So when he scared the birds away in the trap, that version of the birds and Charlie went away, and the one on the cliffs came into play.
> 
> Or it could just be my way of suspending disbelief.
> 
> ...


But charlie was resting back at camp. I think that's what the original question was about. Charlie was no where around, but desmond scared off the birds.


----------



## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

Okay, finally got through all six pages of this thread. I would say that the last couple of episodes together have gotten me firmly back on the Lost bandwagon. Here's my opinion on a lot of the talking points of this episode:

1. Patchy doesn't know Locke (or any of the other Losties) firsthand. He knows them through material collected by Ben's group (which may be "Jacob's" group).

2. Locke never wanted to take Patchy with them, and his death was not an accident but it also wasn't intentional. Locke wants to make decisions and be done with it. He decided to blow up the station. Patchy told them the perimeter was not operational. The quickest way to find out if he's telling the truth? Send him through the perimeter. If he's lying, he dies for it. If he lives, go get him. Problem solved.

3. To the person that said there was no exit strategy to their perimeter fence hopping. Are there no trees on the other side of the fence? Clearly, we see a large field in front of them in this particular area, so they'd be carrying the logs far too far to exit in this area. However, there may be other more wooded areas. Further, it's quite possible that they don't expect this to be a hit and run operation, but rather a negotiation, or even an all out war where the end result will be them leaving with Jack with the perimeter disabled.

4. Jack isn't brainwashed. I think what we have here is a classic WWF Heel Turn. I think Jack has either come to see that the other's aren't so bad or he is assimilating and making nice on purpose -- planning to take them down from the inside. Either way, I hope they keep this heel turn going for a while, as it's one of the more interesting developments the series has seen this season.

5. Back in the season 2 threads there was a vocal, but small group that said there were, in fact, two groups of "others." This suggestion was often ridiculed, but it appears to be at least partly correct now...

6. For the love of all things holy, if they insist on giving Claire a speaking part can they at least have her go an entire episode without whining "my baybee!" I don't know if there exists another woman who can make an australian accent so un-sexy.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

aindik said:


> According to the jewelry salesperson in Desmond's "is this a flashback or a vision" episode, when you "correct" something that you know is about to happen, "the universe has a way of course correcting." Desmond is trying to avoid that, knowing full well that Charlie dead is what the universe wants. He asked the jewelry salesperson why she didn't save the guy in the red shoes from the falling building (or whatever that was). She said because the universe would eventually kill him anyway.


I can't see Desmond following Charlie around forever, so at some point Desmond will have to just let the universe take it's course.

But doesn't Desmond ever have any visions about anyone else? They all seem to be about Charlie. Charlie, Charlie, Charlie! People will talk if they knew how much Charlie consumed Desmond thoughts!


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

chavez said:


> i think Jack is faking it.
> 
> He was probably told by the others that his friends were coming for him and that the best thing for their safety would to be to convince them to turn back. he clearly wanted kate and sawyer to save themselves earlier and didn't want them trying to rescue him... so the best way to discourage them from attempting a rescue is to pretend to have gone native.


Either that or they have Juliet at gunpoint around the corner and he's following orders.

The question of whether an alarm goes off when the perimeter is breached--they may ignore this most of the time, but 2 hours after the flame station explodes I think they're watching for incursions. So they know they're coming, and stage the football game. I still don't get how 4 people think they can bring down a whole village. More likely they recapture Kate and Sawyer now that Ben is safe, with an extra bonus of Locke. They've always seemed interested in him.

So the "hostiles" are our "others"--Ben and company? And the original Dharma people are gone? Or are they referring to crash victims over the years as hostiles including our Losties and Danielle's crew?


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I can't see Desmond following Charlie around forever, so at some point Desmond will have to just let the universe take it's course.
> 
> But doesn't Desmond ever have any visions about anyone else? They all seem to be about Charlie. Charlie, Charlie, Charlie! People will talk if they knew how much Charlie consumed Desmond thoughts!


Well, Charlie's the one on the universe's chopping block. It wouldn't make much sense for Desmond to go around saving people from tasting a bitter mango or getting an eyelash in their eye.


----------



## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> Well, Charlie's the one on the universe's chopping block. It wouldn't make much sense for Desmond to go around saving people from tasting a bitter mango or getting an eyelash in their eye.


But is that Desmond's "gift" then - only to have visions of those who will die? Or does he have visions of *anyone * in impending danger? I was just wondering, because he didn't try to stop Sayid, Locke, and Kate from finding the Flame, but maybe that was because they ultimately walked away unscathed and he didn't need to intervene.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

And in the game of names...

Mikhail and John Locke. Interesting. Going back in history, take a peek.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> But is that Desmond's "gift" then - only to have visions of those who will die? Or does he have visions of *anyone * in impending danger? I was just wondering, because he didn't try to stop Sayid, Locke, and Kate from finding the Flame, but maybe that was because they ultimately walked away unscathed and he didn't need to intervene.


I think that's it. He has visions of more than just death, because I don't the bartender that hot hit with a stick died, or did he? At any rate, if he has visions of impending danger, he must also know whether it's going to turn out to be fatal.


----------



## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

betts4 said:


> And in the game of names...
> 
> Mikhail and John Locke. Interesting. Going back in history, take a peek.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin


Could I have the Cliff Notes, please?


----------



## brianp6621 (Nov 22, 1999)

DVDerek said:


> 5. Back in the season 2 threads there was a vocal, but small group that said there were, in fact, two groups of "others." This suggestion was often ridiculed, but it appears to be at least partly correct now...


What did I miss. I thought the last couple episodes basically ruled out that there WEREN'T 2 groups of others. We finally saw the people we saw barefoot (and therefore assumed were the more uncivilized others) and they were clearly part of the normal "others".

So what is hinting at a second group now?


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

SugarBowl said:


> But charlie was resting back at camp. I think that's what the original question was about. Charlie was no where around, but desmond scared off the birds.


Think a little further out. When Desmond caught that bird for Claire, Charlie then took an interest in helping her out and they finished it up together. Well, what if Claire caught the first bird, Charlie took an interest, and then Charlie accidentally let go of the bird before they tagged it. Charlie would feel bad and try to help her catch another bird.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

DVDerek said:


> 3. To the person that said there was no exit strategy to their perimeter fence hopping. Are there no trees on the other side of the fence? Clearly, we see a large field in front of them in this particular area, so they'd be carrying the logs far too far to exit in this area. However, there may be other more wooded areas. Further, it's quite possible that they don't expect this to be a hit and run operation, but rather a negotiation, or even an all out war where the end result will be them leaving with Jack with the perimeter disabled.


Or the obvious solution....a bit of C4 should take care of the perimeter.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> Or the obvious solution....a bit of C4 should take care of the perimeter.


That's what Rousseau said, to which Locke responded, "Do you want to be the one to put the C4 on the post?" (or something like that).


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

And on a lighter note....okay, just plain silly....but watching the episode again it came to me.

Will the Losties play the Others in a game of football for possession of the Island?

Who would Jack play for? Would Danielle ref?


----------



## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

Uncle Briggs said:


> That would convert me.


Yeah...no kidding! 



betts4 said:


> And on a lighter note....okay, just plain silly....but watching the episode again it came to me.
> 
> Will the Losties play the Others in a game of football for possession of the Island?
> 
> Who would Jack play for? Would Danielle ref?


"The Lostest Yard" 

Great thread about a great ep.
Did anyone notice the speedometer, in the car Clarie crashed, was in mph (bold)?
She was on the *Right* side as the driver, but I thought Aussie cars had kph in bold ?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

skinnyjm said:


> Did anyone notice the speedometer, in the car Clarie crashed, was in mph (bold)?


http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/03/108-again.html


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Quick question -- was it Danielle who first used the term _The Others_? Don't you think that's an odd term to use unless there are two groups on the island. Except that she'd been on the island for 16 years without anyone left from her group. So why would she call them The Others? Who are The _These Ones_?


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

skinnyjm said:


> Did anyone notice the speedometer, in the car Clarie crashed, was in mph (bold)?
> She was on the *Right* side as the driver, but I thought Aussie cars had kph in bold ?


They very likely did what they did last season during the episode with Jack's (and Claire's) father and Ana Lucia in Australia, which was to shoot the scenes with American cars and flip the image to make it look like it's an Australian car.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

betts4 said:


> And on a lighter note....okay, just plain silly....but watching the episode again it came to me.
> 
> Will the Losties play the Others in a game of football for possession of the Island?
> 
> Who would Jack play for? Would Danielle ref?


Kind of like the Gilligan's Island movie where the islanders play basketball against the villain's robots for control of the island. Luckily, the Harlem Globetrotters had crashed on the island and agreed to play for the home team.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

wprager said:


> Quick question -- was it Danielle who first used the term _The Others_? Don't you think that's an odd term to use unless there are two groups on the island. Except that she'd been on the island for 16 years without anyone left from her group. So why would she call them The Others? Who are The _These Ones_?


Yes, it was Danielle that first used the term (that we saw on the show anyway). There was her group of scientists, and there were the "others." I agree it's kind of a strange term, but I've chalked it up to English not being her first language.


----------



## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

hefe said:


> http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/03/108-again.html


...so I'm not the only one who noticed it!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

skinnyjm said:


> ...so I'm not the only one who noticed it!


Ummm, that pic isn't pointing out that the speedometer was in MPH.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

It's not the reason that it was posted, but it proves it nonetheless.


----------



## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

aindik said:


> She said because the universe would eventually kill him anyway.


a-la final destination

/seems like they're setting his character up to die as a sacrifice, or someone else (desmond) will sacrifice themselves to save him.



mqpickles said:


> That's what Rousseau said, to which Locke responded, "Do you want to be the one to put the C4 on the post?" (or something like that).


Yeah, but it's C4, I don't think it actually needs to be touching the post. I mean the flame had C4 all in the basement, but that didn't stop it from blowing the roof off.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

betts4 said:


> And on a lighter note....okay, just plain silly....but watching the episode again it came to me.
> 
> Will the Losties play the Others in a game of football for possession of the Island?
> 
> Who would Jack play for? Would Danielle ref?


...and would the they play touch, flag or tackle?


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> ...and would the they play touch, flag or tackle?


Shirts and skins? We'll be skins.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

DVDerek said:


> 5. Back in the season 2 threads there was a vocal, but small group that said there were, in fact, two groups of "others." This suggestion was often ridiculed, but it appears to be at least partly correct now...


Nice try. It was ridiculed for a reason. People believed they had shown us two groups of Others. A savage group, like Tom with the beard and the barefoot ones, and a civilized group, like Ethan and those in the Staff hatch. But when they revealed the costume make-up in the Staff, they revealed that those two groups were one and the same, but people still tried to insist that they'd shown us two. There could be ten groups of people on the island, but they've only shown us one so far.

It's pretty clear to me that the Others are the Hostiles and that no one from the Dharma Initiative is still there, that we've seen.

There was also a small problem I've always had with the first Desmond episode in wondering Kelvin's motivation for lying to Desmond about the disease, yet going out into the world without a suit. I now believe he was one of the Others as well.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Charlutz said:


> Only thing that makes sense is that the security was designed to keep out animals.


I was wondering why the whole line wasn't littered with corpses of animals, myself. I sure wouldn't want to be the janitor that cleans that perimeter.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Hunter Green said:


> I was wondering why the whole line wasn't littered with corpses of animals, myself. I sure wouldn't want to be the janitor that cleans that perimeter.


An animal probably wouldn't sit there and take its punishment like old Patchy did. Would he have survived if he had just kept going? How far does the "kill ray" reach? It didn't touch our Losties.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

And a sonic wall might be audible to many animals, and so they would avoid it. But a polar bear (for instance) might ignore the sound and plow into it anyway during a chase, but that can't happen too often I'd think.

The real $64 question is what does a sonic wall do to Smokie ... aside from make him go over it, that is.


----------



## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> It's not the reason that it was posted, but it proves it nonetheless.


One funny thing commented on the site is that the Seat Belt Warning is on. They at least got that part right.


----------



## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> Nice try.


Damn! You caught my bit of trickanery. 

You are right that the original "2 groups" folks were clinging to "savages" and "non-savages" as the destinction.



> It's pretty clear to me that the Others are the Hostiles and that no one from the Dharma Initiative is still there, that we've seen.


True. But does that mean we WON'T see them and it's silly to believe they're there? We didn't see anything about the Talies, but many believed they were there. Sure enough...


----------



## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

drew2k said:


> The Other was about to say that the Locke he recalled was para... [paralyzed].
> 
> Locke of course couldn't let his secret come out, so he took a gamble and tossed the Other into the fence. Locke won.


or "paraplegic"


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Aaaarrrrrgghghh. I was away on a trip starting last Saturday and my TiVo crapped out on Sunday (right in the middle of Rome apparently), so I didn't get this episode. Crud. Now what am I gonna do.


----------



## mikeny (Dec 22, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> Aaaarrrrrgghghh. I was away on a trip starting last Saturday and my TiVo crapped out on Sunday (right in the middle of Rome apparently), so I didn't get this episode. Crud. Now what am I gonna do.


Isn't it on ABC.com for free?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

mikeny said:


> Isn't it on ABC.com for free?


Yes, here. But, act fast...after next week's ep, it'll probably be gone.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Yes, here. But, act fast...after next week's ep, it'll probably be gone.


Right now they have quite a few episodes up.


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

MFruchey said:


> Something to do with the brainwashing techniques used on Alex's boyfriend? (What was his name again?)


Yeah but Jack's not on the List. They said it before. So what gives?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wprager said:


> Right now they have quite a few episodes up.


Yep....I didn't realize they kept three or four of the latest....that's handy.


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

TheGreyOwl said:


> One question my wife and I had was, why if the island cured Rose's cancer did it not cure Ben's cancer (spinal tumor)? And didn't Jack talk to Rose and find out her cancer was cured? If so, you would think he'd be suspicious of Ben's cancer.
> 
> Another out-there theory we had was what if Jack was in fact the "great man" Mikhail referred to? It would be an interesting twist if Jack was in on it from the beginning, and this whole thing was a way to get him back to the others without giving it away. But then, a lot of things don't fit with that theory...


I've only gotten this far in the thread but wanted to comment (in case no one else had) that the healer guy in Australia told Rose that healing places in the world don't heal all the people. Just some of them. It's possible the island is a healing place for Rose and Locke but not for Benry.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

NoThru22 said:


> There was also a small problem I've always had with the first Desmond episode in wondering Kelvin's motivation for lying to Desmond about the disease, yet going out into the world without a suit. I now believe he was one of the Others as well.


I'm thinking you're right. That then begs the question - why was Kelvin repairing the boat? Was he trying to get away? (He did seem pretty unhappy).


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Yes, here. But, act fast...after next week's ep, it'll probably be gone.


Thanks! Worked like a charm - even less commercials than usual (though that's not an issue with the TiVo).


----------



## sfenton (Feb 8, 2004)

There is another possibility for Jack playing football - maybe it is his exercise hour in the yard. He may still be being treated as a prisoner.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> That's what Rousseau said, to which Locke responded, "Do you want to be the one to put the C4 on the post?" (or something like that).


Then they put a bridge made of tree branches on the post and climbed over it. There's no reason they couldn't attach the C4 to the post if they could get close enough to climb over it.

Locke murdered somebody, or at least committed manslaughter. That should mess with his karma or something.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

sfenton said:


> There is another possibility for Jack playing football - maybe it is his exercise hour in the yard. He may still be being treated as a prisoner.


But he and Mr. Friendly look so HAPPY together!

(Not that there's anything WRONG with that! )


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

danterner said:


> So, does that make Charlie another shrimp on the Barbie?


Great line.
Now I'm really pissed that Sawyer won't be able to use it.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> One thing we learned this episode: Tom can't throw a football worth crap.


So, you've never seen Chad Pennington throw a football?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> Great line.
> Now I'm really pissed that Sawyer won't be able to use it.


Why not? He's only banned from nicknames for a week...


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

tubsone said:


> Yeah but Jack's not on the List. They said it before. So what gives?


If the list was written before they crashed, then they already had Ethan as their surgeon at that time. Maybe they want to hang on to Jack as their doctor rather than for whatever the people on the list are for. (Probably that's a good thing for Jack)  I still think he's just playing along and not really brain washed. Nothing about Jack would suggest that he would be a guy who brainwashes easily, and it hasn't been very long.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Why not? He's only banned from nicknames for a week...


Lost will probably end before another week of island time passes


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stalemate said:


> Lost will probably end before another week of island time passes


I believe they're averaging something like 2 days per episode...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I believe they're averaging something like 2 days per episode...


Which makes me wonder ...

I think the cross-island trek with Kate, Locke, Sayid, and Rousseau is in now in it's second or third day. They definitely slept in the jungle one night before coming across the Flame, and I'm guessing they left there for the barracks and found the Village of the Others the following day.

This just makes me wonder why the Ocanic survivors haven't tried to map their surroundings, if for nothing else to locate more hatches, safe havens, etc. Sayid found Rousseau's map in Season 1, but it was incomplete and she was only one survivor.

They've now been on the island close to 50 80 days, so why don't they have surveys of everything within one-day's travel? Two-day's? Three-day's? If they'd done this, they would have come across the barracks/village already.


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## jonblaze (Jan 10, 2004)

drew2k said:


> They've now been on the island close to 50 days (?), so why don't they have surveys of everything within one-day's travel? Two-day's? Three-day's? If they'd done this, they would have come across the barracks/village already.


Perhaps they took to heart Tom's warning not to cross the line in the sand he drew.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Which makes me wonder ...
> 
> I think the cross-island trek with Kate, Locke, Sayid, and Rousseau is in now in it's second or third day. They definitely slept in the jungle one night before coming across the flame, and I'm guessing they left there for the barracks and found the Village of the Others the following day.
> 
> ...


They haven't mapped for the same reason they don't seem to ask many questions, of course. Total lack of curiosity! 

Actually, 3 days I think is right on. I thought in the previous episode the comment was made about them having been trekking for 2 days. The time at the Flame, plus a night would put them at 3 days.

Interesting that Rousseau didn't at least mark off the areas she was scared of visiting, if nothing else ...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

drew2k said:


> They've now been on the island close to 50 days (?),...


Just to clear up the detail...

As chronicled in a wiki entry, "According to Claire at the end of the episode, they have now been on the island for 80 days, which would currently make it December 10th, 2004."


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## skinnyjm (Feb 10, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Ummm, that pic isn't pointing out that the speedometer was in MPH.


But it is why hefe posted it.


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## acej80 (Jan 19, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Which makes me wonder ...
> 
> I think the cross-island trek with Kate, Locke, Sayid, and Rousseau is in now in it's second or third day. They definitely slept in the jungle one night before coming across the Flame, and I'm guessing they left there for the barracks and found the Village of the Others the following day.
> 
> ...


Don't forget the strange sounds from the first or second episode, and then the smoke monster, I think that has instilled a level of 'fear' in the losties, to reduce the desire to explore.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

I'm not usually one to formulate Lost theories. I generally just try to enjoy the show for what it's worth. 

However, recent episodes have really got me thinking so here goes...


I think the Losties are actually the "hostiles" and they have battled the "others" many times in the past. It's like a game that the "others" can reset if they don't like how it's going. That would explain how the "others" know so much about the losties. They've dealt with each of them on a personal level before and know what each of them are about. Also, it appears Desmond may have tapped into that and can see what's happened with the Losties in times passed. So he's not really seeing the future. He actually sees the past and is using that info to change the future.

Why? No idea. Maybe just an experiment by Dharma or some other company. It could be some type of game run by some sick, rich dudes. 

I just thought of this theory on the fly and I know it's full of holes. Then again, so is every other theory I've seen out there. 

Thoughts?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Did anybody post this before? I wasn't aware the giant cable has been explained

http://uploadingit.com/public/pview/6119/ecko.gif


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Did anybody post this before? I wasn't aware the giant cable has been explained
> 
> http://uploadingit.com/public/pview/6119/ecko.gif


I knew what it would be before I clicked, yet I clicked anyway. How sad for me.

Greg


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Did anybody post this before? I wasn't aware the giant cable has been explained
> 
> http://uploadingit.com/public/pview/6119/ecko.gif


I just see a fuzzy picture of Sayid. Is there supposed to be something more there?


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> I just see a fuzzy picture of Sayid. Is there supposed to be something more there?


It's an animated series of images showing Sayid following the cable from the beach into the trees and then Eko supposedly on the other end of the supposedly same cable.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Spoiler tags, please!!!


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## UBUBUB (Dec 1, 2005)

Per Claire's pigeon-gram, it's December 12/10/2004. That means only 16 days until the tsunami hits Phuket Island. Will Achara (Bai Ling) get washed out to sea and show up on the island?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Spoiler tags, please!!!


Really! I am so surprised by that!


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Mike20878 said:


> It's an animated series of images showing Sayid following the cable from the beach into the trees and then Eko supposedly on the other end of the supposedly same cable.


Wow I just now got it lol!


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

drew2k said:


> They've now been on the island close to 50 80 days, so why don't they have surveys of everything within one-day's travel? Two-day's? Three-day's? If they'd done this, they would have come across the barracks/village already.


Well, the answer to this is obvious... they're simply too busy trying to get off of the island! Oh... wait...


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I like the doing surveys idea. They have found a lot out about the island, but often it doesn't get shared from one person to the next. 

Wouldn't it be cool if they found those pnuematic tubes and someone could use them to build a house or main center from them? It could work.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

UBUBUB said:


> Per Claire's pigeon-gram, it's December 12/10/2004. That means only 16 days until the tsunami hits Phuket Island. Will Achara (Bai Ling) get washed out to sea and show up on the island?


If I had a choice, I would say yes...


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> There was also a small problem I've always had with the first Desmond episode in wondering Kelvin's motivation for lying to Desmond about the disease, yet going out into the world without a suit. I now believe he was one of the Others as well.





Alpinemaps said:


> I'm thinking you're right. That then begs the question - why was Kelvin repairing the boat? Was he trying to get away? (He did seem pretty unhappy).


Kelvin was not an Other. He was secretly repairing the boat so he could escape from the island, and leave Desmond behind to "save the world" by himself.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Bananfish said:


> Thanks! Worked like a charm - even less commercials than usual (though that's not an issue with the TiVo).


If you click all of the sections and watch the commercials first, then the commercial breaks go away. Then you can rewind and watch the whole episode uninterrupted.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Spoiler tags, please!!!


You were kidding, hence the smiley, right?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Of course!


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Of course!


Whew... wasn't sure about Bierboy's follow-up though...


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