# Survivor 3/24/10 - Banana Etiquette



## toddvj (Apr 22, 2004)

Holy Crap!!! That was the greatest move ever. Russell is a mastermind. That was the most impressive thing that has ever been done on Survivor!


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## Dashel (Oct 2, 2002)

toddvj said:


> Holy Crap!!! That was the greatest move ever. Russell is a mastermind. That was the most impressive thing that has ever been done on Survivor!


Agreed! I'm not a Russell fan, but that was *totally* awesome and easily one the most memorable moments in Survivor history, right up there with the Susan Hawk speech.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Dashel said:


> Agreed! I'm not a Russell fan, but that was *totally* awesome and easily one the most memorable moments in Survivor history, right up there with the Susan Hawk speech.


I agree. As much I HATE Russell, watching him and Rob play is watching fine game of Chess. They are a cut above the rest!

And, did I miss the point where everyone agreed to vote out James. I thought it was a foregone conclusion that Colby was going home? Makes Tom's elimination last week even more stupid for the Heroes.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Russell has earned his place in the big leagues with that one!


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Even Amanda voted for James. And what was the "I love you" at the end: was there more going on than we were shown?


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

That was truly an edge of your seat tribal council, and probably the best I've ever seen. Rob was terrific in his strategizing, but Russell ate him up and spit him back out... can't wait to see them go at it next week.


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## HoosierFan (May 8, 2001)

It was a great move, but it sure is going to be tough to make it past next week. Maybe he can find the next immunity idol before anyone knows that there is one.


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

Tyson ended up voting himself off.

Rob, Sandra and Tyson were supposed to vote for Russell. Tyson voted for Parvati instead, which threw off the vote and sent him home.


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## shanew1289 (May 7, 2004)

toddvj said:


> Holy Crap!!! That was the greatest move ever. Russell is a mastermind. That was the most impressive thing that has ever been done on Survivor!


+!, Russel is the best. Giving up your own immunity and bet it all on 4 Parvati Votes. AMAZING!


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

stark said:


> Tyson ended up voting himself off.
> 
> Rob, Sandra and Tyson were supposed to vote for Russell. Tyson voted for Parvati instead, which threw off the vote and sent him home.


And the added bonus is that Rob will never truly know who flipped since Tyson won't be around to discuss it.

Last year a TON of Russell looking so great is the other tribe was stupid down the stretch. That move was fantastic.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Russell: 1 Rob: 0


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Great episode, even if I did have to watch it in real time with no TiVo on a crappy motel room TV.

I loved Rob's comment in the previews for next week regarding Russell.



Spoiler



He compared Russell to a suicide bomber because he gave his immunity away, meaning there's no way to stop someone who's willing to go to that extreme.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

bryhamm said:


> And the added bonus is that Rob will never truly know who flipped since Tyson won't be around to discuss it.
> 
> Last year a TON of Russell looking so great is the other tribe was stupid down the stretch. That move was fantastic.


The look on Rob's face was clah-sic. Dumbfounded and completely confused about how his plan didn't work.

I can understand trying to take out Russell, but if you suspect he had the idol it seemed totally unnecessary to try to get rid of him now and totally pointless to give him any information that might help him. Getting rid of the idol makes sense, but if you aren't absolutely certain your plan is gonna work you play right into Russell's hand and that's exactly what happened in the end. Now the team has to think that it's dangerous to follow Rob and Russell has banked some goodwill by protecting someone else (even if it was someone that the others wanted to get rid of).


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

toddvj said:


> Holy Crap!!! That was the greatest move ever. Russell is a mastermind. That was the most impressive thing that has ever been done on Survivor!


I'd qualify that by saying it was the single greatest move in survivor. Russell's run of three HIIs and going from 4 down in the merge was the most impressive play of any season.

The guy is freaking smart. He figured out a way to use a dumbass to beat a perfect plan.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

I wonder what else happened between Russ and Tyson for Tyson to feel so comfortable to not force a tie. Russell somehow like last season worked his magic and brought the larger group of 6 down using just 3 people. Also Coach said he was going to stay true to his words, I thought he was with Russell first and then the others he was more "tagging" along. Did I just forget some details over the past few weeks?


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to second (or third, or fourth, or whatever...) the point raised about James getting the boot this week just showing how stupid the team was in the last tribal. Colby hasn't played a good game, and Tom hadn't been effective either, but to reconsider keeping James after having booted someone that was physically capable of playing was pretty friggin' stupid. James should have been gone first, though knowing now that this episode was going to be a double elimination and single person immunity deal (so it wasn't a case of needing a strong team) it doesn't really matter.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

terpfan1980 said:


> I can understand trying to take out Russell, but if you suspect he had the idol it seemed totally unnecessary to try to get rid of him now and totally pointless to give him any information that might help him. Getting rid of the idol makes sense, but if you aren't absolutely certain your plan is gonna work you play right into Russell's hand and that's exactly what happened in the end.


Well, the way I think it originally was supposed to go down was that everyone votes for Parvati but only makes Russel THINK they are voting for him. The only reason they were giving him info was to scare him into wasting the idol.

Then Rob had the brilliant thought that Russel might be smart enough to give the idol to Parvati, and that's why they had to split it. Otherwise if everyone votes for Parvati and he does give it to her, then Tyson goes home.

Essentially, Rob had it all worked out and planned things through quite carefully. It was a very good move. He just underestimated Russel's ability to con one of Rob's teammates into screwing up the plan.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Coach seemed to be taking his Knight of King Russel role kind of seriously. Tonight, I think Russel's final speech was more than just a speech. He knows what makes Coach tick, and if Coach wasn't 100&#37; dedicated to Russel before, he is now.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

The question is: will Coach now be in Russel's camp after the speech Russell gave when giving the idol to Parvati. That would make it Russell, Parvati, Daniel and Coach vs. Rob, Courtney, Sandra and Jerry. Sandra might hate Russell, but she will flip in a second to save her own butt.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> I loved Rob's comment in the previews for next week regarding Russell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I don't know whether Rob really believed that, or it was just his mindgames with the other people trying to plant the idea that Russel is reckless and unpredictable. If Rob really believes that, he's so wrong. Holding onto the idol wasn't going to get Russel all that much further. He needed the numbers. It was "make a stand now or have no legs to stand on later". Rob was outwitted by Russel tonight, and if Rob can't even recognize that, then he's not even in Russel's league.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Tyson is an idiot!


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## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> Then Rob had the brilliant thought that Russel might be smart enough to give the idol to Parvati, and that's why they had to split it. Otherwise if everyone votes for Parvati and he does give it to her, then Tyson goes home.


Sorry, I fail to see Rob's plan as "brilliant"; they've split votes numerous times on Survivor and I was honestly shocked that it took an "ah ha!" moment when Rob came up with it. It's not brilliant, just playing the different possibilities.

-murray


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Einselen said:


> I wonder what else happened between Russ and Tyson for Tyson to feel so comfortable to not force a tie. .... Also Coach said he was going to stay true to his words, I thought he was with Russell first and then the others he was more "tagging" along. Did I just forget some details over the past few weeks?


Last time, Russel trusted (or rather, played) Coach by telling him he found the idol, and that got coach to become his knight (or, rather, his disciple). Tonight, it seemed that Coach didn't vote with Russel, but I wonder if there's more than we realize. Russel seemed to know exactly who to go after (Tyson) to swing the vote towards Parvati. Remember when Rob came into the tent, it sounded like Tyson wanted a different strategy than the 3-3 that Rob planned. I wonder if Coach fed that info back to Russel, who then said "OK, we're gonna swing this to Parvati". So in voting for Parvati, Coach really was voting the way Russel wanted him.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

murrays said:


> Sorry, I fail to see Rob's plan as "brilliant";


Sorry, it was just a figure of speech.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

But really, didn't Tyson screw himself over? It wasn't really Russell's move, it was Tyson's stupid move that sent him home and not Russell.

If he hadn't overthought it, Russell would be gone.

And I'd be much happier.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

It may have been Tyson's stupidity, but it took Russel to identify the weakness and exploit it to his advantage. Give credit where due...it was a joint effort.


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## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> Last time, Russel trusted (or rather, played) Coach by telling him he found the idol, and that got coach to become his knight (or, rather, his disciple). Tonight, it seemed that Coach didn't vote with Russel, but I wonder if there's more than we realize. Russel seemed to know exactly who to go after (Tyson) to swing the vote towards Parvati. Remember when Rob came into the tent, it sounded like Tyson wanted a different strategy than the 3-3 that Rob planned. I wonder if Coach fed that info back to Russel, who then said "OK, we're gonna swing this to Parvati". So in voting for Parvati, Coach really was voting the way Russel wanted him.


Russel did have a little speech about honor, etc. for Coach when he gave up the idle. Perhaps there was some discussion about Russel "proving" his honor to Coach.

We'll see.

-murray


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

I'm a big fan of Rob, as I was rooting for him. I really, really had convinced myself that Russel was out of his league. Holy crap was I wrong. Rob definitely got outsmarted. Russel is a cunning guy. Very smart, and I was impressed how he didn't panic when Rob told him he was getting voted out. Very impressive. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

tk


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I think you guys are giving Russell too much credit.  

Rob's plan would have worked perfectly if Tyson hadn't been an idiot and flipped his vote. Even Russell said he wasn't sure they were smart enough to see that they should force the three way tie and they were... just Tyson didn't follow the plan.

For the record, I do like Russell... and I'd be rooting for him all the way like in Samoa, except Boston Rob is my all-time favorite.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

Russell is the Michael Jordan of Survivor. He is above the game.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Russell: 1 Rob: 0


I don't see it that way, Rob had the plan and Tyson deviated and HE got burned.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

Russell outsmarted everyone. Rob had a good plan, but Russell figured it out and figured out that Tyson was the weak link and exploited it. I LOVED IT! Can't wait for next week's show. Hopefully Russell will find another idol.

Sorry to see James go. Even with his bad behavior earlier in the season, I still like him. But it was the right move to vote him out.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I thought Russell played it brilliantly. Picked the EXACT right person to play, both on a psychological and strategic level.

But what would have happened if Russell had just let Rob's plan go through (without conning Tyson), and the vote were tied at three apiece? There would have been another re-vote, so could have the immunity idol been played at that vote?

There's been some impressive play with the immunity idols this season. First Tom and now Russell. I hope for Russell's sake he lasts longer than Tom did.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

JFriday said:


> I don't see it that way, Rob had the plan and Tyson deviated and HE got burned.


Tyson would have never deviated from the plan had Russell not approached him and fed him the line about Russell voting for Pavarti. Russell outwitted.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

lol at all the people giving no credit to Russell and just blaming Tyson....Who do you think planted that seed in Tyson!?!

Watching Brob and Russell play really is like watching 2 grandmaster chess champion play a game in the park!


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Isn't it great how this game is always changing from season to season? Just a few seasons ago the immunity idols were pretty much non-issues and the past couple have revolved around them!


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

laria said:


> Rob's plan would have worked perfectly if Tyson hadn't been an idiot and flipped his vote.


Yes but Russell is the one that tricked Tyson into voting for Parv. That plus his move with the idol was seriously legendary.

Yes Tyson was an idiot, but that manipulation was key. I'm not a Russell fan at all, but that was some serious playing.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> Even Amanda voted for James. And what was the "I love you" at the end: was there more going on than we were shown?


I believe in James & Amanda's first season together (China?) they were very close. Maybe very, very, VERY close? Amanda's expression from the beginning and throughout tribal council gave away that James was going home.

I LOVED the editing in this one! Rob to Russell - you better hope you have it, or pack your bags (but we're just doing that to flush the idol, we're really sending Parvati home). Russell - gotcha! I'm going to give Parvati the idol and Tyson's going home. Rob - hey, we need to split the vote because if he gives the idol to Parvati, it's a tie and we still send one of them home. Russell - Gotcha again! Hey Tyson, I'm going to vote for Parvati, so you don't really need to split the vote, so you can cut your own throat, dude.

I was getting so excited watching the strategy, then the thought crossed my mind - how many times have they shown twist-and-turn strategy only to have TC not follow that at all and just go the original way before the twists.

Then to see it played out, including Russell lying all Tribal about having the idol, then turning to Coach before he hands it off and touting Truth and Honor! This was one of THE best episodes of _Survivor_ ever!


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## pudding7 (May 13, 2002)

I'm not on the "Russel outwitted Rob" bandwagon either.

I think it was a stupid idea to give Parv the idol. It was even stupider for Tyson to vote himself out. It may have worked out for Russell, but it was still stupid on his part.

The goal of the game is to stay in it. Neither Russell or Tyson was in any danger of going home, yet they both acted foolishly. Tyson paid for it and Russell just lucked out.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

pudding7 said:


> I'm not on the "Russel outwitted Rob" bandwagon either.
> 
> I think it was a stupid idea to give Parv the idol. It was even stupider for Tyson to vote himself out. It may have worked out for Russell, but it was still stupid on his part.
> 
> The goal of the game is to stay in it. Neither Russell or Tyson was in any danger of going home, yet they both acted foolishly. Tyson paid for it and Russell just lucked out.


No doubt it was a risky move, but either way Russell would have been on the chopping block next. Now he's got one more person in his camp than he would have had he let Parv get voted out. The best moves are the ones that would have been the worst had they not worked out.

He gambled BIG TIME and it paid off. That takes balls.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Hey Rob! Who's out of WHOSE league?

I love both Rob and Russell, but Russell clearly beat Rob this episode.


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## tcristy (Feb 11, 2005)

The secret scene "Parvati warns Tyson" shows a little more how they played him.

We saw Rob tell Tyson they are splitting Parvati/Russel and they win either way by sending one of those two home. We saw Russel explaining to Tyson he is going to blindside Parvati which makes sense to Tyson because it would allow Russel to both stay and keep his ido. Tyson at this point is pretty sure there are a majority of votes going Parvati's way regardless of which way he votes.

Parvati then seals the deal by telling Tyson her alliance is going to take him out unless he jumps to their side. They knew his personality would make him want to pile on to the Parvati vote to rub in that he knows something she doesn't. The condescending tone he took in begging her to know how to save himself told her he was on the hook for sure.

Not sure how much of the credit should be split between Russel and Parvati, but between them they played into his arrogance brilliantly to get him to vote himself out.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

YCantAngieRead said:


> But really, didn't Tyson screw himself over? It wasn't really Russell's move, it was Tyson's stupid move that sent him home and not Russell.
> 
> If he hadn't overthought it, Russell would be gone.
> 
> And I'd be much happier.


I know... I'm confused too. Call me dense, but how exactly did Russell see this coming? I figured Russell just wanted to go out on his own terms by giving the II to Parvati. How did he know that Tyson was going to switch his vote?


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Bryanmc said:


> Y*es but Russell is the one that tricked Tyson into voting for Parv. * That plus his move with the idol was seriously legendary.
> 
> Yes Tyson was an idiot, but that manipulation was key. I'm not a Russell fan at all, but that was some serious playing.


Ah! There's the tidbit I was missing! I must have been surfing the net during that part. I didn't know Russell had managed to manipulate Tyson into switching his vote. Then I agree. Brilliant play by Russell.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

bareyb said:


> I know... I'm confused too. Call me dense, but how exactly did Russell see this coming? I figured Russell just wanted to go out on his own terms by giving the II to Parvati. How did he know that Tyson was going to switch his vote?


I agree. Call it a bit of resentment, envy, hate, or IMO stating the truth, but I think too many are too quick to jump on the bandwagon of loving Russy when the editing makes it appear to be all his doing.

As tcristy said, watch the secret scenes, day after with Tyson and his comments after getting voted off.

Here is what I was going to post, but then I read tcristy's post and went to the CBS site.

_*I am very cynical of this last episode. I don't trust or believe it. Russell could not know or even guess about a split vote unless he was told. There were way too many assumptions made by Russell, yet they all came to fruition.  He couldn't have known the vote count for him and Parvati unless Tyson told him. How would he know Tyson is telling the truth? What if one other person voted differently. It just seems like way too many variables to be able to play out like it did. I wonder what the statistical odds against that event working out like it did. I would think fairly extreme. Even then there is no guarantee the ones who said they were going to vote for Parvati were or did. They could have easily all said Russell and not split when they went to tribal. Then Russell still gives the idol to Parvati and he goes home. I know, Tyson was the moron, but I see him more the moron, and less Russell being that good. I can't put my finger on it, but it just reeks like there is something more to what happened. If not then at the very least I agree with pudding7. Russell lucked out more than he really is that good based on the simple move of giving the idol to Parvati.

Let's not forget one most important fact that isn't being mentioned much with all the glee for Russy in every forum. 
Rob got exactly what he wanted, which was to expose the idol and a blatant lier, and Russell now has played his hand and he can't do it again. The villains all know they game and lie to each other, but the way Russell did it really rubs the rest of the survivors wrong, because they have some trust with each other, but none with Russell. Trust in Russell last season is what really got him to the end. Who really trusts him now? Parvati? If she is smart she wouldn't. Russell is the kind of guy that will say, "hey let me wine and dine you...good, you happy now?" Then he'd literally stab you in the gut and tell you not to enjoy the meal too much reminding you that it was him that gave you the "pleasure". Didn't he call himself god in one episode. He is just a piece of crap no matter how good he actually is at the game or how good he thinks he is.
*_

Now after seeing the videos with Tyson, taking into account the editing and love of Russell by CBS ( he's been relatively quiet and out of view so far compared to last season), and the fact that he does have some kind of bond with Parvati and is friends with her brother or some nonsense, I maintain Russell and CBS are both good at selling him, because wow, read this and any forum and people love the guy and how he is playing. Do I think Russell is a good player and a good silver tongue manipulator, sure, but I don't buy that he is as good as he, Jeff or CBS makes him out to be.


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## tcristy (Feb 11, 2005)

Tyson says so many outrageous things in all his interviews that I'm not sure I believe anything he says. Is he really going to admit that the people he was constantly making fun of for being so inferior to him managed to fool him?

I agree Russel couldnt have been 100% sure it would work, which is what made it such a balsey play. From his interview, he thought trying to keep Parvati in the game was better for his long term survival than playing it safe and keeping the idol, so rolled the dice.


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

Russell got very lucky that Tyson was supposed to be part of the three votes for him at tribal. If he would have been part of the three that was supposed to vote for Parvati, he couldn't have flipped and Russell would have gone home.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

tcristy said:


> Tyson says so many outrageous things in all his interviews


In his final interview, did I really hear him right? Did he really say "I'm still awesome"? Wow...In love with yourself much?


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

LordKronos said:


> In his final interview, did I really hear him right? Did he really say "I'm still awesome"? Wow...In love with yourself much?


Nearly threw up when he said that. What a tool.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

laria said:


> I think you guys are giving Russell too much credit.
> 
> Rob's plan would have worked perfectly if Tyson hadn't been an idiot and flipped his vote. Even Russell said he wasn't sure they were smart enough to see that they should force the three way tie and they were... just Tyson didn't follow the plan.
> 
> For the record, I do like Russell... and I'd be rooting for him all the way like in Samoa, except Boston Rob is my all-time favorite.


I agree with all of that. Especially that Tyson was an idiot.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> But what would have happened if Russell had just let Rob's plan go through (without conning Tyson), and the vote were tied at three apiece? There would have been another re-vote, so could have the immunity idol been played at that vote?


SInce it didn't happen, we can't know the rules for sure, but my guess is that since the votes for Paravati would not have counted, the official vote count would have been Russell 3 - Tyson 3. At the re-vote there is no immunity idol (Paravati having played it to save herself.) Rob's alliance votes off Russell 6-3. That is how the plan was supposed to work (with either Russell or Paravati going home.)

I would assume that if neither Russell nor Paravati played the idol the first time, Rob has told his alliance to all vote for a single player the 2nd round. But we don't know if the idol could be played then.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I just assumed Coach told Russel what Rob's plan was


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

I would love to get an animation of Rob's face from the start of TC to after the vote. The "smug" just melted off his face.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

> Originally Posted by laria
> I think you guys are giving Russell too much credit.
> 
> Rob's plan would have worked perfectly if Tyson hadn't been an idiot and flipped his vote. Even Russell said he wasn't sure they were smart enough to see that they should force the three way tie and they were... just Tyson didn't follow the plan.
> ...





loubob57 said:


> I agree with all of that. Especially that Tyson was an idiot.


I agree with all of this too. I am impressed with how easily Russell can sway people, even vilians that usually sway others. But, BostonRob thinks it out and yes, this is a great game of chess. I hope they both make it to the merge.

Russell had a couple things stacked in his favor. Coach heard BostonRob's plan. If so, then Russell heard it too. Tyson could or could not have flipped, he was presented with both options.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

And the Heroes, sent James home after Colby said he didn't want to play anymore (basically). I hope this will pump Colby up a bit and get him moving.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

jradosh said:


> I would love to get an animation of Rob's face from the start of TC to after the vote. The "smug" just melted off his face.


That was some sweet TV for sure.

I still can't believe that some people dislike Russel so much that they can't give him his proper place in Survivor lore. Best episode ever. I can't wait until they show them after they return to camp.

I am still a fan of both Rob and Rus.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Russel's facebook page for some interesting reading


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

My wife asked me to tell her who was voted off. I just said, watch tribal. I didn't realize how long they spent at Tribal council, almost half the show was at the tribal. Such a great show this year. Russell is still my favorite.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

As always, some great stuff in Jeff's blog. This part made me spit up my coffee:

*The entire speech about banana etiquette from Amanda to James was yet another in a season filled with scenes that you would swear are scripted. I think Survivor should be nominated for an Emmy for Best Writing, and the award should go to the Heroes vs. Villains cast. If you could write this kind of a show every week, you would have a big house in the Hollywood Hills with a pool, a few really cool cars, a man servant, a full-time maid, a well-stocked wine bar, a movie theatre in your basement, and an incredible view of the city. In short, youd be living like Ryan Seacrest.*


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## golfnut-n-nh (Nov 30, 2004)

The best line of the whole night was when James offered JT a banana and the tone in which it was said. My wife and I played it backed over and over it.


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## golfnut-n-nh (Nov 30, 2004)

By the way, Tyson is a complete idiot. Thank you sir may I have another (kick in the head)!


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

terpfan1980 said:


> The look on Rob's face was clah-sic. Dumbfounded and completely confused about how his plan didn't work.
> 
> I can understand trying to take out Russell, but if you suspect he had the idol it seemed totally unnecessary to try to get rid of him now and totally pointless to give him any information that might help him. Getting rid of the idol makes sense, but if you aren't absolutely certain your plan is gonna work you play right into Russell's hand and that's exactly what happened in the end. Now the team has to think that it's dangerous to follow Rob and Russell has banked some goodwill by protecting someone else (even if it was someone that the others wanted to get rid of).


See - Russell has to hope that he finds another idol and they suspect it because that alliance is still on the losing end of the numbers...

Russell, Parvati, Danielle

Coach, Rob, Jerri, Sandra

Based on last night's move, Rob should be able to convince Coach, Jerri, and Sandra that purposely losing the next immunity challenge is a wise idea because of Russell's disregard for "conventional" play. Question is, will Coach and/or Sandra go along with that. I'm pretty sure Jerri would, but those other two may not.

Very good move by Russell - well executed.

Very poor move by Tyson - he voted himself out. I don't know if it's necessarily Rob 0 Russell 1, but it's certainly Russell 1 Tyson 0.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Necromancer2006 said:


> See - Russell has to hope that he finds another idol and they suspect it because that alliance is still on the losing end of the numbers...
> 
> Russell, Parvati, Danielle
> 
> ...


Coach is definetly in Russell's camp.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

JFriday said:


> Coach is definetly in Russell's camp.


I don't know... I think he still has a man-crush on Rob.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

hughmcjr said:


> but I don't buy that he is as good as he, Jeff or CBS makes him out to be.


Well, that's okay, but you're wrong.

Russell is on par with Richard Hatch, Brian Heidik, and Boston Rob in terms of quality strategic play. The question remains whether or not Russell can adjust his superior strategic play and couple that with a quality social game (of which Hatch, Brian and BRob can/have) to put him up on the mantle with the best players ever.

There's no question that Russell is a strategic master at the game - his shortcoming is the social aspect of the game.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

teeeheeeheeee

















ZOMG WHUH???

i was howling


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

jradosh said:


> I don't know... I think he still has a man-crush on Rob.


True, but I think he respects Russel a lot more. All that honor/glory/warrior crap really means the world to Coach. After the performance by Russel last night, I think he's probably Coach's new role model (even though it was just a BS act by Russel, Coach doesn't know that). I bet Coach is now like the lost puppy that's just been given his first bowl of food in months.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

It's interesting that we are all annointing Rob and Russell as master game players, yet between them, they've won exactly *ZERO* versions of Survivor (and throw in Rob and Ambuh losing their one crack at The Amazing Race as well. So really, are they as good as we think they are? Sure, they play great strategy, but in the end, they end up losing. Isn't that the point of Survivor? To win the million bucks? I think you will all be totally pissed when someone like Jerri or Sandra end up winning this game by lying in the weeds and striking at the end. Unfortunately, this seems to be the trend lately in these types of games. Jordan in BB, Natalie in the last Survivor. The strong end up knocking each other out and the stragglers end up winning.

That said, it is a lot of fun watching BR and Russell duke this out. I didn't quite get Russells turning of Tyson at the time. I just thought he was being a bonehead. Now, if BR still has the numbers next Villains TC, and he should if nobody flips. Then Russell will be gone, only one week later. No matter what happened, he succeeded in getting rid of the II, so that makes him vulnerable, unless another one is introduced (not out of the question). All BR has to do is keep his alliance together, and bye bye Russell.


----------



## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

I'm going to miss Tyson. He is a riot in the interviews.  And he didn't even make the merge this time so we don't even get to hear him in the Ponderosa videos.


----------



## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Some people shouldn't think for themselves. 

Tyson, you need to hang around and listen to smarter people because you are a DA.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Coach is certainly in Russels camp, and Russel set it in concrete last night when he made his speech to Coach!


----------



## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I don't know... I think he still has a man-crush on Rob.


He friggin bowed to Russell. He even said last night e wouldn't break his word. Russell played to that at tribal council.

Sorry to see Tyson go, only because I had him in my pool. Other than that the guy who thinks he's the smartest player around sure got schooled and he still doesn't realize how bad he got played.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Well, that's okay, but you're wrong.
> 
> Russell is on par with Richard Hatch, Brian Heidik, and Boston Rob in terms of quality strategic play. The question remains whether or not Russell can adjust his superior strategic play and couple that with a quality social game (of which Hatch, Brian and BRob can/have) to put him up on the mantle with the best players ever.
> 
> There's no question that Russell is a strategic master at the game - his shortcoming is the social aspect of the game.


Up until last night, I would have disagreed with you 100%. I always felt that Russell supposed strategic superority was only becuase he played against weak players last season. Even today, I am ready to argue that Russell was NOT robbed last season (but let's not hash that out again.)

But last night, he proved he belongs in the elite group of players listed above (I would also include Tom in that list, but that is a personal opinion.) He was anticapating and matching each of BoRob's moves. This is quite a chess match we have going on. Can't wait to see the next move!



Steveknj said:


> It's interesting that we are all annointing Rob and Russell as master game players, yet between them, they've won exactly *ZERO* versions of Survivor (and throw in Rob and Ambuh losing their one crack at The Amazing Race as well. So really, are they as good as we think they are? Sure, they play great strategy, but in the end, they end up losing. Isn't that the point of Survivor? To win the million bucks? I think you will all be totally pissed when someone like Jerri or Sandra end up winning this game by lying in the weeds and striking at the end. Unfortunately, this seems to be the trend lately in these types of games. Jordan in BB, Natalie in the last Survivor. The strong end up knocking each other out and the stragglers end up winning.


I agree with you, but if we are talking strictly strategy both of them rank up there with the best. However, if you are looking for the best *OVERALL* Survivor, I agree. Win the $1M and then we'll talk.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> It's interesting that we are all annointing Rob and Russell as master game players, yet between them, they've won exactly *ZERO* versions of Survivor (and throw in Rob and Ambuh losing their one crack at The Amazing Race as well. So really, are they as good as we think they are? Sure, they play great strategy, but in the end, they end up losing. Isn't that the point of Survivor? To win the million bucks?


So by that logic, is Vecepia is a better player than Rob? I refuse to acknowledge that.

Being good (or even the best) doesn't mean you win. No matter how good you are, you can't anticipate what other people around you are going to do. You can play a clean game and then end up with the jury rewarding someone else for their cunning, backstabbing gameplay (even though you could have done the same and chose not to). Or you can play that cunning game and then end up with a bunch of people who took it personally and refuse to reward you for your bad behavior.

Even after spending an entire month with these people, the final survivors often can't tell exactly how the jury is going to judge it. And even if they could tell, by then it's too late...by the time you learn enough to think you know how someone is going to vote at the end, you may have already burned the bridges in the previous weeks. And even if you figure it all out, the jurors get to hang out with each other all day long after they're voted onto the jury. They've got days or even weeks to influence each other outside of the game.

So no, I don't believe winning is a requirement for being the best. You need to make it to the end (or at least really really close) but at that point there's some luck involved.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> So by that logic, is Vecepia is a better player than Rob? I refuse to acknowledge that.
> 
> Being good (or even the best) doesn't mean you win. No matter how good you are, you can't anticipate what other people around you are going to do. You can play a clean game and then end up with the jury rewarding someone else for their cunning, backstabbing gameplay (even though you could have done the same and chose not to). Or you can play that cunning game and then end up with a bunch of people who took it personally and refuse to reward you for your bad behavior.
> 
> ...


Perhaps if Rob played in Vescepia's season, he wins. We'll never know. I would equate this to the 2004 Red Sox. Were they the best team record wise during the season? No. Did they even beat the Yankees more times than the Yankees beat them during the regular season? No. But they won the World Series making them the best team that year. I'm sorry, you can be a GREAT player, but to be one of the BEST you have to win. And the fact that Rob has NOT won in multiple attempts at TWO different games, means he cannot be considered the best. Now, if Russell wins this year, I would be willing to annoint him the best.

The problem is, while they both excel at game strategy, and even challenges, they FAIL in the social part of the game, and that's why they keep losing. This was discussed quite a bit during last season.

That's my opinion, FWIW, yours appearently differs.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> Essentially, Rob had it all worked out and planned things through quite carefully. It was a very good move. He just underestimated Russel's ability to con one of Rob's teammates into screwing up the plan.


He had it planned in a way that works if everybody does their part. I'm not sure what you could do to stop what happened. When somebody goes rogue, what can you do?


pmyers said:


> lol at all the people giving no credit to Russell and just blaming Tyson....Who do you think planted that seed in Tyson!?!
> 
> Watching Brob and Russell play really is like watching 2 grandmaster chess champion play a game in the park!


Yeah, I think it was a great move, and credit to Russell for making it and having it work, but I think he was at least as much lucky as good. I don't doubt that every week some player tries to manipulate and deal and do all the same kind of stuff to save their skin. Most of the time it doesn't work. It shouldn't have worked for Russell. And if it hadn't it would be no different than any other player that tried to make last minute plays to save themselves. So once it worked, I guess we can say retroactively that it was brilliant, but what would we have said if Tyson did what he was supposed to?

Still, glad to see Tyson gone. He's one of the most annoying Survivors ever!


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

hefe said:


> Still, glad to see Tyson gone. He's one of the most annoying Survivors ever!


He's Awesome!


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> He's Awesome!


Just ask him.


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

It's funny, just last night I was thinking to myself, "Tyson must go a long ways, they sure aren't spending much camera time on him now." I have no sense for this at all. 

tk


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Steveknj said:


> Perhaps if Rob played in Vescepia's season, he wins.




Uh, they DID play in the same season... Rob was even on Vecepia's tribe!


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Uh, they DID play in the same season... Rob was even on Vecepia's tribe!


that just reinforces how forgettable Vecepia was. If I ran into her on the street I would have no idea who she is or was.


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## ibergu (May 9, 2004)

I thought Russell's move was GENIUS! I was high-fiving my wife after the vote.

I'm a big BRob fan, but an even bigger Russell fan after what he's been able to accomplish in his two seasons. Finding immunity idols without clues, using them at the perfect times, playing the game like no other before him. And who knows what else he has up his sleeve!

Like others, when I first heard about Heroes and Villains, I was hoping that both BRob and Russell would be allies. What an unstoppable force that would have been. Unfortunately, it wasn't meant to be. Their egos are just too big.

As Russell said, let the best man win.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Was it Danielle and Parvati who voted with Russel? I wonder if there was any chance he could have convinced them to vote off Brob? That would have been the ULTIMATE move!


----------



## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

pmyers said:


> Was it Danielle and Parvati who voted with Russel? I wonder if there was any chance he could have convinced them to vote off Brob? That would have been the ULTIMATE move!


immunity idol held by Rob would have made that difficult


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Was it Danielle and Parvati who voted with Russel? I wonder if there was any chance he could have convinced them to vote off Brob? That would have been the ULTIMATE move!


Yeah, convincing 2 people to vote for the person with immunity would have been awesome.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


> immunity idol held by Rob would have made that difficult


told you that would have been awesome! lol


----------



## HDTivoDesire (Apr 6, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> It's interesting that we are all annointing Rob and Russell as master game players, yet between them, they've won exactly *ZERO* versions of Survivor (and throw in Rob and Ambuh losing their one crack at The Amazing Race as well.


Rob & Amber lost the Amazing Race TWICE! 

They came in 2nd their first time, then made it about half-way during a subsequent All-Stars season.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

hefe said:


> credit to Russell for making it and having it work, but I think he was at least as much lucky as good.


He's like other people I've known, where I'm always saying "wow, he's luck that worked out for him". "Wow, he got it done....lucky", "oh he lucked out that it worked the way he wanted", "wow that was some luck". At some point you have to acknowledge that luck rarely happens over and over again to someone, and that perhaps they are making their own luck.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

LordKronos said:


> He's like other people I've known, where I'm always saying "wow, he's luck that worked out for him". "Wow, he got it done....lucky", "oh he lucked out that it worked the way he wanted", "wow that was some luck". At some point you have to acknowledge that luck rarely happens over and over again to someone, and that perhaps they are making their own luck.


I do, to a point. The quantity of credit I give him just falls short of the genius that others have given, though. Others scramble for deals and try to manipulate people when they're being targeted too. Usually it doesn't work, but the actions they take are not really different than the actions Russell took. But it worked for Russell. Does he make his own luck...yes, absolutely. I'm not taking all credit from him. But if Tyson wasn't a moron, Russell would be gone.


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## johnh123 (Dec 7, 2000)

pmyers said:


> Coach is certainly in Russels camp, and Russel set it in concrete last night when he made his speech to Coach!


And Coach can probably bring Jerry as well. I think Boston Rob is toast.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

johnh123 said:


> And Coach can probably bring Jerry as well. I think Boston Rob is toast.


Yikes. I hope not. Rob is being _awesome_ this season. Russell is really after him now though, so I guess we'll see who wins the "mini game". Rob is the better overall player IMO, because of his leadership qualities, but I think Russell makes a lot of his own luck too. He is definitely "the best player to have never won". He's got that title hands down.

Unless of course, he was fooling us all at last season's finale (looking all pissed and irritated) and he really DID win this season. We don't know for sure that he didn't. That would be CLASSIC Russell if that was all misdirection and he actually won. THAT would definitely cement his place in Survivor history forever.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

johnh123 said:


> And Coach can probably bring Jerry as well. I think Boston Rob is toast.


If you watch the villians' voting video on YouTube, you'll see that Jerri said something about Parvati making a good plea to her about why Jerri should vote for someone else, but Jerri thought it was too late.

Now, of course, Parvati has more time to work on Jerri...


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

bareyb said:


> Rob is the better overall player IMO, because of his leadership qualities, but I think Russell makes a lot of his own luck too. He is definitely "the best player to have never won". He's got that title hands down.


You just contradicted yourself.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

johnh123 said:


> And Coach can probably bring Jerr*i* as well. I think Boston Rob is toast.


FYP. I kept wondering who the hell this Jerry guy was...


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> FYP. I kept wondering who the hell this Jerry guy was...


He must be buddies with Russel.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

laria said:


> You just contradicted yourself.


Rob won - Amber


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

murrays said:


> Russel did have a little speech about honor, etc. for Coach when he gave up the idle. Perhaps there was some discussion about Russel "proving" his honor to Coach.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> -murray


Didn't Russell promise to let Coach or Parv have the idol if they needed it when he showed it to them in the first place? I thought that was pure BS. Now Coach believes it. 



johnh123 said:


> And Coach can probably bring Jerry as well. I think Boston Rob is toast.


I don't know if Coach can be trusted or not. Rob must have trusted him to vote as told this time, because the splitting the vote thing is always dangerous. Maybe he figured Coach wouldn't want Tyson to go, since they're close.

The banana etiquette speech was great. I wonder who picks the bananas in the first place. If James wants extra, he could pick extra.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Bryanmc said:


> No doubt it was a risky move, but either way Russell would have been on the chopping block next. Now he's got one more person in his camp than he would have had he let Parv get voted out. The best moves are the ones that would have been the worst had they not worked out.
> 
> He gambled BIG TIME and it paid off. That takes balls.


he even said... if it doesn't work out, i go home...

i don't understand how you can watch this and not see how russell orchestrated the whole thing....

sure, it was a gamble to give away the HII, but it was done after putting alot of pieces in place... and the pieces held... to say he gave the idol away for any other reason is ridiculous.

and the coach/honor comment shows he's thinking about the next step as well, cuz he knows he's outnumbered.. he needs coach to go further.



Steveknj said:


> It's interesting that we are all annointing Rob and Russell as master game players, yet between them, they've won exactly *ZERO* versions of Survivor (and throw in Rob and Ambuh losing their one crack at The Amazing Race as well. So really, are they as good as we think they are? Sure, they play great strategy, but in the end, they end up losing. Isn't that the point of Survivor? To win the million bucks? I think you will all be totally pissed when someone like Jerri or Sandra end up winning this game by lying in the weeds and striking at the end. Unfortunately, this seems to be the trend lately in these types of games. Jordan in BB, Natalie in the last Survivor. The strong end up knocking each other out and the stragglers end up winning.


as others have said, you need some luck to win the whole thing.

it all starts in the beginning, as you make your alliances. after the first or second tribal council is when alliances are solidified, and you have to hope the ones you make stick. once you've established you have number, then you have to position yourself to move further and hope everything falls the way you set it up. but russell has done this time after time... and even when he didn't have numbers, he moves ahead. this last move was genius.


----------



## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

Peter000 said:


> But what would have happened if Russell had just let Rob's plan go through (without conning Tyson), and the vote were tied at three apiece? There would have been another re-vote, so could have the immunity idol been played at that vote?


No, the II is just played at the beginning. During the re-vote, votes for Parvati still would not count. But the 3 who had voted Parvati to split the vote would just switch their vote to Russell in the re-vote and he goes home.



JETarpon said:


> Hey Rob! Who's out of WHOSE league?
> 
> I love both Rob and Russell, but Russell clearly beat Rob this episode.


Not by much, though. Rob's only fault was not staying on top of this alliance to make sure they don't do something as stupid as what Tyson did. His plan would have sent Russell home if followed.



IJustLikeTivo said:


> Nearly threw up when he said that. What a tool.


Eh, I don't think Tyson takes himself that seriously, seemed like he was just having some fun.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bruinfan said:


> sure, it was a gamble to give away the HII, but it was done after putting alot of pieces in place...


Once it's been found, can't we just call it the II?


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

hefe said:


> Once it's been found, can't we just call it the II?


well, technically, it's still hidden from the majority of the tribe...


----------



## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Great move by Russell. That's twice this season that we've seen the splitting the votes to flush the idol trick fail. It's way too risky to have to depend on all 6 players to vote exactly as they say. That was really Rob's only mistake this week. Cirie made that mistake as well.

Also while it is impressive for Russell to get rid of one of Rob's minions, I think it's equally impressive for Parvati to manage to get someone to give her the idol. Even if Tyson hadn't been an idiot, she would've still been safe and probably ok with Russell going home. Maybe he was so upset at losing to Natalie last year because he makes the same mistake this year taking a "weak" girl to the end thinking that he can beat her.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Unless of course, he was fooling us all at last season's finale (looking all pissed and irritated) and he really DID win this season. We don't know for sure that he didn't. That would be CLASSIC Russell if that was all misdirection and he actually won. THAT would definitely cement his place in Survivor history forever.


At the finale for the previous season, where the votes/winner are revealed for the first time, Russell would have had no idea if he had won this season. He would have known if he was in the running, but he would have no idea if he had won.

If I would assume anything from his demeanor at last season's finale, it would be that he didn't make the final two or three this season and last season was his only chance at the million.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

one thing being overlooked amidst the russell/rob/tyson saga:

how about colby losing to "a fat guy and a cripple"?

james in tribal council was hilarious: superman was in a big girdle, wearing a fat suit...

and colby just laid down and took it. as much as james was the right choice, colby deserved to go.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

terpfan1980 said:


> I can understand trying to take out Russell, but if you suspect he had the idol it seemed totally unnecessary to try to get rid of him now and totally pointless to give him any information that might help him. Getting rid of the idol makes sense, but if you aren't absolutely certain your plan is gonna work you play right into Russell's hand and that's exactly what happened in the end. Now the team has to think that it's dangerous to follow Rob and Russell has banked some goodwill by protecting someone else (even if it was someone that the others wanted to get rid of).


But Rob's plan, if followed, was flawless. It flushes out the II and gets rid of someone from the other side at the same time. If not for Tyson's misstep, which Rob could not have anticipated, Rob's plan would have killed two birds with one stone.


HoosierFan said:


> It was a great move, but it sure is going to be tough to make it past next week. Maybe he can find the next immunity idol before anyone knows that there is one.


Problem is, they aren't hiding them in obvious places this season, and they're not giving clues immediately. The players didn't even know about the II until episode four of this season, and Tom played his yet the Heroes still haven't been given another clue that it's been rehidden. So I think the chances of Russell being able to find it again before the next TC is pretty remote.


Peter000 said:


> But what would have happened if Russell had just let Rob's plan go through (without conning Tyson), and the vote were tied at three apiece? There would have been another re-vote, so could have the immunity idol been played at that vote?


3 votes Russell, 3 votes Parvati, 3 votes Tyson. All votes for Parvati thrown out and she can't be voted for. Tyson and Russell don't get to re-vote since they can't vote for each other. Revote is 5 against Russell and 2 against Tyson.


pudding7 said:


> I'm not on the "Russel outwitted Rob" bandwagon either.
> 
> I think it was a stupid idea to give Parv the idol. It was even stupider for Tyson to vote himself out. It may have worked out for Russell, but it was still stupid on his part.
> 
> The goal of the game is to stay in it. Neither Russell or Tyson was in any danger of going home, yet they both acted foolishly. Tyson paid for it and Russell just lucked out.


Problem is, staying in the game with no allies isn't worth anything either. You're just going to be gone the next time your tribe goes to TC. Russell was willing to gamble that keeping an ally like Parvati was worth more than keeping the II for himself. We'll see in the next few weeks if that was a good decision or not.


IJustLikeTivo said:


> Nearly threw up when he said that. What a tool.


LMAO when he said that. Nearly everything that comes out of Tyson's mouth is sarcastic. If you take him that seriously, you need to relax.


Necromancer2006 said:


> See - Russell has to hope that he finds another idol and they suspect it because that alliance is still on the losing end of the numbers...
> 
> Russell, Parvati, Danielle
> 
> ...


You forgot Courtney. There are now 8 players left on the Villains tribe, and it very well could be a 4-4 split the next time they go.


JFriday said:


> He friggin bowed to Russell. He even said last night e wouldn't break his word. Russell played to that at tribal council.


I know Coach bowed to Russell in the last episode, but he was on Rob's side with the voting during this episode. Don't know whether that means anything, but I wouldn't automatically say that Coach is in Russell's pocket.

I loved this episode, and love both Russell and Rob. I wish they could join forces, but if they're not going to do that, then I want them both to stay in as long as possible. They're highly entertaining.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Parvarti has actually won Survivor, was the person who ended up with the immunity idol while Russell remains The Target, and no one mentions what a great move and player she is (unless I missed the post).


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Jebberwocky! said:


> Rob won - Amber


Exactly! Everyone saying that Rob never won is not looking at the big picture. Rob actually won more than any other Survivor to ever play the game: he not only ended up with the million dollars (by marriage) but also walked away with a fantastic, beautiful woman as his wife, and what seems to be a very strong marriage that's lasted a number of years. Not to mention all the good times playing AR and his other reality adventures. No other player even comes close to getting as much out of Survivor as Rob.

Rob is the one who gambled everything, way more than Russell so far: if he'd not kept his promise to Amber to take her to tribal he would unquestionably have won that season of Survivor, but taken a big risk on losing Amber. He decided to go for it all and got it but he could well have lost everything: the money and the girl (if she'd said no). Also, that wasn't a pre-merge, desperate gamble he had to make to save his skin, like Russell this week. His decision was his alone, directly, for all the marbles.

However, I am in the camp that says Russell deserved to win last season and he's definitely playing amazingly well this season as well.

As for people switching sides between Rob and Russell, I wonder if they'll do it before the merge. The Villians _have_ to know that the only reason they've been winning is Rob: he's taken major responsibility in almost every challenge so far and they've won virtually all of them. Are the Villians going to repeat the Heroes' mistake and get rid of strong players before the merge? I'm not so sure: they like to win too much. Russell doesn't have a strong hand here: he's been very cunning at camp but not that much help (IIRC) in challenges.

On the other hand the merge _is_ coming and they might risk it to be rid of someone like Rob before the chaos arrives and upends everything.

On the gripping hand there's a decent chance that the Villians won't even have to go back to Tribal at all before the merge. I have a hard time believing they would throw a challenge. That wouldn't be in Rob's best interests since at this point he probably believes he can win a lot of II challenges after the merge. And it would be a huge risk for Russell as well: he might well decide he likes his chances after the merge better when he can stir things up.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Family said:


> Parvarti has actually won Survivor, was the person who ended up with the immunity idol while Russell remains The Target, and no one mentions what a great move and player she is (unless I missed the post).


But Russell didn't give her the II to save her. He gave her the II to keep some numbers/allies on his side, and to throw a wrench in Rob's plan. Parvati didn't do anything to convince Russell to give her the II. She was just the other target that Rob's folks were splitting their vote for.


----------



## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I loved this episode, and love both Russell and Rob. I wish they could join forces, but if they're not going to do that, then I want them both to stay in as long as possible.


I'd bet that had Rob been able to see Russell's season he probably would team up with him in a heartbeat. Except for the fact that if any of those people had been able to see Russell's season Russell would have been voted off long ago!



Family said:


> Parvarti has actually won Survivor, was the person who ended up with the immunity idol while Russell remains The Target, and no one mentions what a great move and player she is (unless I missed the post).


Yes, and just like in her season most of her moves consist of smiling and batting her eyes. But hey, whatever works!


----------



## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> 3 votes Russell, 3 votes Parvati, 3 votes Tyson. All votes for Parvati thrown out and she can't be voted for. Tyson and Russell don't get to re-vote since they can't vote for each other. Revote is 5 against Russell and 2 against Tyson.


I'm not entirely sure they were going to vote Russell out on a re-vote. Didn't Rob say something during the pow-wow by the water about them needing to flush the idol out, but Parvati needed to go? I had assumed they were all going to vote for Parvati after the idol was played and they had to re-vote. Or do they have to vote between the tied people only?



madscientist said:


> Exactly! Everyone saying that Rob never won is not looking at the big picture. Rob actually won more than any other Survivor to ever play the game: he not only ended up with the million dollars (by marriage) but also walked away with a fantastic, beautiful woman as his wife, and what seems to be a very strong marriage that's lasted a number of years. Not to mention all the good times playing AR and his other reality adventures. No other player even comes close to getting as much out of Survivor as Rob.


I agree, that's great and all... but when it comes right down to it, Rob has not won the game of Survivor. 



appleye1 said:


> Yes, and just like in her season most of her moves consist of smiling and batting her eyes. But hey, whatever works!


She certainly does a lot of that, but she also seems to be a bit more of a physical help in challenges than a lot of other female players who have mostly gotten by on their looks. She at least seems to not mind exerting herself and getting dirty, and I give her some bonus credit for not having a fake rack.


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## MapleLeaf (Oct 12, 2007)

bruinfan said:


> one thing being overlooked amidst the russell/rob/tyson saga:
> 
> how about colby losing to "a fat guy and a cripple"?
> 
> ...


Most of this thread has been about Rob vs. Russell, but yeah, I too am shocked at how poorly Colby has played so far. Similar to James, I remember Colby as being something of a superman, and I'm somewhat saddened at his lacklustre performance thus far. Maybe it's just my idealised memory of him, but he now seems just a shadow of his former self. And I'm even more disappointed that it seems he's simply given up. At camp before tribal, he wasn't fighting for his life or trying to devise a strategy for saving himself. He just lazed around on the beach all afternoon resigned to the fact he was going home. At tribal, all he did was lament/concede his poor performance and again simply seemed resigned to the fact that everyone was voting for him. And as the votes were read, he seemed genuinely shocked that the tribe voted James out instead of him, although to be fair, I was shocked as well. As others have pointed out, it made no sense to vote James out at this tribal on the basis of his injury if you didn't do it at the previous tribal.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

laria said:


> I'm not entirely sure they were going to vote Russell out on a re-vote. Didn't Rob say something during the pow-wow by the water about them needing to flush the idol out, but Parvati needed to go? I had assumed they were all going to vote for Parvati after the idol was played and they had to re-vote. Or do they have to vote between the tied people only?


I don't know if they could change who they voted for in the revote, but I'm certain they would not be able to vote for whoever played the II. So if Russell plays the II, the revote goes against Parvati. If Parvati plays it, the revote goes against Russell. And if nobody plays it, they vote for either Russell or Parvati (probably Russell, if I know Rob).


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

You can change your vote, but the vote is only between the tied parties.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

laria said:


> You just contradicted yourself.


No. Rob has a win. Russell is the best player to have _never_ won. 

ETA: Oops. I could have sworn Rob won Survivor All Stars. Doh! Well he sorta did...


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

btw....I reall can't stand Sandra. Everything that comes out of her mouth is just negative!


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

pmyers said:


> btw....I reall can't stand Sandra. Everything that comes out of her mouth is just negative!


This.

-murray


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

If Rob hadn't won immunity I wonder if he would be the one going home? Tyson probably wouldn't have changed his vote if his name wasn't up there in the tie, but Russell could've convinced him that the 3 were voting for him--with Parvati's help.  I don't want Rob to go home, but that would've been an even bigger shocker. Rob himself would never have fallen for it.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> Problem is, they aren't hiding them in obvious places this season, and they're not giving clues immediately. The players didn't even know about the II until episode four of this season, and Tom played his yet the Heroes still haven't been given another clue that it's been rehidden. So I think the chances of Russell being able to find it again before the next TC is pretty remote.


well, russell probably knew there was an idol... and maybe he has been looking for it and it's just not shown... but i agree there's no way he could've found it where it was. but you know russell will be looking first chance he gets, clue or no clue.



> Problem is, staying in the game with no allies isn't worth anything either. You're just going to be gone the next time your tribe goes to TC. Russell was willing to gamble that keeping an ally like Parvati was worth more than keeping the II for himself. We'll see in the next few weeks if that was a good decision or not.


which is also why russell gave a nod to coach... he's priming him for his next move, which is get coach to flip and even up the numbers. you know this will be a big theme for next week... russell playing on coach's honor, proving that he can be trusted... one step ahead, this one.


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## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> If Rob hadn't won immunity I wonder if he would be the one going home? Tyson probably wouldn't have changed his vote if his name wasn't up there in the tie, but Russell could've convinced him that the 3 were voting for him--with Parvati's help.  I don't want Rob to go home, but that would've been an even bigger shocker. Rob himself would never have fallen for it.


I'm almost certain Rob would be "drunk in 5 minutes" if he didn't have immunity. They would have given Tyson the exact same story and he would have behaved in the same manner.

-murray


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

laria said:


> I'm going to miss Tyson. He is a riot in the interviews.  And he didn't even make the merge this time so we don't even get to hear him in the Ponderosa videos.


This



Roadblock said:


> Eh, I don't think Tyson takes himself that seriously, seemed like he was just having some fun.


And this

I hated Tyson during the season he played until he got to Ponderosa. Then you saw that he really didn't take himself that seriously and that he was just having fun with the camera. Probably figured the more outrageous things he said the more screen time he'd get. After he got voted out that season he became my favorite!

I'd love to see James at the 'voted out early camp' with Sugar, Randy, Tyson, Stephanie and Tom.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> 3 votes Russell, 3 votes Parvati, 3 votes Tyson. All votes for Parvati thrown out and she can't be voted for. Tyson and Russell don't get to re-vote since they can't vote for each other. Revote is 5 against Russell and 2 against Tyson.


I think they hypothetical I proposed is being misunderstood.

Scenario: Russel has the II. Rob's original split 3-3-3 vote comes to pass, but Russell does NOT play the II.

Revote.

Does Russell get a chance to play the II after that revote, but before votes are counted, as normal? In essence trick the Boston Rob alliance he doesn't have an II, switch the target to himself, then pull the II out of the bag?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

In my opinion Rob and Amber should have won the Amazing Race. For those that don't remember in the final leg to Miami Rob and Amber made the flight and they had pulled that gangway away from the plane. Somehow magically it was put back to allow the other team on board. Had that not happened Rob and Amber would have won easily.

To me it might not have been rigged by the producers but I bet the cameras persuaded the airline to pull the gangway back to prevent bad publicity.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Roadblock said:


> Not by much, though. Rob's only fault was not staying on top of this alliance to make sure they don't do something as stupid as what Tyson did. His plan would have sent Russell home if followed.


Which is a fatal flaw and reflects Rob's hubris is not considering that Russell would also figure it out and interdict his plan.



Roadblock said:


> Eh, I don't think Tyson takes himself that seriously, seemed like he was just having some fun.


Not a chance. Have you seen American Idol? These people delude themselves into thinking they are special. My guess is that they reality of how ordinary they are frightens them so they use this as a coping mechanism. Personally, being ordinary shouldn't be a crime.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

zalusky said:


> In my opinion Rob and Amber should have won the Amazing Race. For those that don't remember in the final leg to Miami Rob and Amber made the flight and they had pulled that gangway away from the plane. Somehow magically it was put back to allow the other team on board. Had that not happened Rob and Amber would have won easily.
> 
> To me it might not have been rigged by the producers but I bet the cameras persuaded the airline to pull the gangway back to prevent bad publicity.


ARGGGHHHHHHH. I still think the producers made that happen.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> Which is a fatal flaw and reflects Rob's hubris is not considering that Russell would also figure it out and interdict his plan.


I dunno. I was not a Rob fan before this season, but I think he's doing well this time. His split vote was designed to help Tyson. Rob has immunity. There's only so much he can do there. Assuming the guy you are trying to SAVE will follow through with the plan seems reasonable.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Roadblock said:


> I dunno. I was not a Rob fan before this season, but I think he's doing well this time. His split vote was designed to help Tyson. Rob has immunity. There's only so much he can do there. Assuming the guy you are trying to SAVE will follow through with the plan seems reasonable.


the only thing BRob could have done better was to realize the degree that Tyson wanted Parvati out and set him up to vote for her instead of Rus. Then there would have been no vote to switch.

That's splitting hairs IMO - Rob put in a plan that should have worked - there's no accounting for stupid.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


> the only thing BRob could have done better was to realize the degree that Tyson wanted Parvati out and set him up to vote for her instead of Rus. Then there would have been no vote to switch.
> 
> That's splitting hairs IMO - Rob put in a plan that should have worked - there's no accounting for stupid.


I disagree. I think another thing Rob could have done better, and should have done better, was to keep his damned mouth shut. If he hadn't been messing with Russell about the idol, I don't know if Russell would have taken it all as seriously and been able to match Rob's moves as well. I think Rob showed his hand too much by gloating to Russell. I think if he hadn't done that, it would have increased his chances of success.

tk


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

pendragn said:


> I disagree. I think another thing Rob could have done better, and should have done better, was to keep his damned mouth shut. If he hadn't been messing with Russell about the idol, I don't know if Russell would have taken it all as seriously and been able to match Rob's moves as well. I think Rob showed his hand too much by gloating to Russell. I think if he hadn't done that, it would have increased his chances of success.
> 
> tk


good point. I think he was trying to make Russell think he needed to play it but . . .

It's amazing how it seems so hard to keep your mouth shut and how it almost always comes back to bite you.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


> good point. I think he was trying to make Russell think he needed to play it but . . .
> 
> It's amazing how it seems so hard to keep your mouth shut and how it almost always comes back to bite you.


True, he was trying to get Russell to feel a little pressure, which was probably necessary. I think he thought (as did I) that his plan was foolproof and I think he got a little ahead of himself.

If I would have been in his shoes there's no way I would have been able to keep my mouth shut. 

tk


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> teeeheeeheeee
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's worth quoting...  Loved this moment :up:


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

This interview with Tyson is cracking me up. 

http://tvwatch.people.com/2010/03/26/survivor-tyson-explains-how-he-blindsided-himself/



> *The obvious next step is a Coach-Tyson Amazing Race run.*
> I would kick ass at it. I'm smart enough. I've traveled the world. I know a lot of offensive things to say in multiple languages. And Coach has way more experience than I do at, well, everything if you believe his stories. He survived Pygmies so _The Amazing Race_ would be cake. Make it happen! It's not like I want to get a real job.


That was the question after they asked him about his genuine moment with Coach:



> *You talk a big game, but your tender moment with Coach showed everyone you're actually a softie.*
> There was no way they weren't gonna show that and with every second, my reputation as a badass went further down the toilet. But he was crying and I know when people are genuinely hurt. He wanted to know why people think he's silly and he needed to hear it from someone close. Of course, he didn't heed my warning because five seconds later he said he was a legend and the next morning he was doing tai chi.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> the only thing BRob could have done better was to realize the degree that Tyson wanted Parvati out and set him up to vote for her instead of Rus. Then there would have been no vote to switch.
> 
> That's splitting hairs IMO - Rob put in a plan that should have worked - there's no accounting for stupid.


I have a feeling Coach let Russell know who was voting for whom. Russell saw flipping Tyson from himself to Pavarti was the easiest, and went with it. If Tyson was voting for Pavarti, they (Russ and Pav) would have gotten him to flip the other way.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

Philosofy said:


> I have a feeling Coach let Russell know who was voting for whom. Russell saw flipping Tyson from himself to Pavarti was the easiest, and went with it. If Tyson was voting for Pavarti, they (Russ and Pav) would have gotten him to flip the other way.


Actually, in that People interview I linked, Tyson says he was the one that told Russell, Parvati and Danielle that they were splitting the vote.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Does Boston Rob have anyone to worry about in competitions, until they merge? Russell maybe? but who else now that Tyson is gone?


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

betts4 said:


> Does Boston Rob have anyone to worry about in competitions, until they merge? Russell maybe? but who else now that Tyson is gone?


Colby could wake up and get his butt moving.

Of course it also depends on the type of comptetitions.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Does Boston Rob have anyone to worry about in competitions, until they merge? Russell maybe? but who else now that Tyson is gone?


I'm not sure I understand your question.

Until they merge, competitions will generally be tribe-against-tribe. It's only after the merge that individual competition takes place (particularly against fellow villains like Russell).


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> I'm not sure I understand your question.
> 
> Until they merge, competitions will generally be tribe-against-tribe. It's only after the merge that individual competition takes place (particularly against fellow villains like Russell).


They had an individual competition in this episode. But, to rephrase my competition, who do you all think is/will be the strongest in individual competitions so far?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Rob will win at puzzles hands down. Rupert might beat him in a swimming/diving challenge. Russell would be hard to beat in a strenght/endurance challenge (hold the rope while more weight gets piled on). Colby could give Rob a run for his money in some of the other types of challenges, but I think Rob would win. Coach would win in a kayaking challenge, but only if it played to his strengths (the contestants were blindfolded without a paddle and had to use their psychic powers to propel themselves.)

EDIT: I forgot about JT. He will give Rob a challenge in anything physical.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

I think Rob certainly has the edge on puzzle challenges. 
For speed/strength, I'd pick JT.
For balance, I think Danielle would probably be better than Rob.
For precision (like shooting baskets), again Danielle, JT or even Colby.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

zalusky said:


> In my opinion Rob and Amber should have won the Amazing Race. For those that don't remember in the final leg to Miami Rob and Amber made the flight and they had pulled that gangway away from the plane. Somehow magically it was put back to allow the other team on board. Had that not happened Rob and Amber would have won easily.
> 
> To me it might not have been rigged by the producers but I bet the cameras persuaded the airline to pull the gangway back to prevent bad publicity.


Just wanted to say THANK YOU for stating what actually happened, rather than saying that the plane had actually pulled away from the gate and came back. It almost always gets stated the second way.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Peter000 said:


> I think they hypothetical I proposed is being misunderstood.
> 
> Scenario: Russel has the II. Rob's original split 3-3-3 vote comes to pass, but Russell does NOT play the II.
> 
> ...


Ah, now I get what you're saying. I think the rules are that you have to play the II before the votes are read. I think that means the first round of voting. I'm fairly certain that you can't hold onto it and then play it to save yourself in a tie/revote situation if you didn't play it before the original votes were read.


pendragn said:


> I disagree. I think another thing Rob could have done better, and should have done better, was to keep his damned mouth shut. If he hadn't been messing with Russell about the idol, I don't know if Russell would have taken it all as seriously and been able to match Rob's moves as well. I think Rob showed his hand too much by gloating to Russell. I think if he hadn't done that, it would have increased his chances of success.
> 
> tk


I think you're forgetting what Rob's intentions were. He wasn't just trying to vote out someone from the Russell/Parvati/Danielle group. He was also trying to ensure that the II would be flushed out as well. If he were simply trying to get one of them out, that would have been easy to do. But to flush out the II and still get one of them out required some precision and strategy, and meant that he had to make Russell feel threatened enough that he'd play it.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I scanned this whole damn thread for a link to the blog and you all let me down! Do you know how hard it is to google this stuff! I had to go through a whole link to find this!

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/03/25/jeff-probst-blogs-survivor-heroes-vs-villains-episode-6/

My favorite part:


> RUSSELL DID IT AGAIN: The short, stubby, tooth-missin' garden gnome did it again


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> I scanned this whole damn thread for a link to the blog and you all let me down! Do you know how hard it is to google this stuff! I had to go through a whole link to find this!
> 
> http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/03/25/jeff-probst-blogs-survivor-heroes-vs-villains-episode-6/


You mean you were looking for the link in Post # 59?


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## Skyler (Oct 9, 2002)

NoThru22 said:


> I scanned this whole damn thread for a link to the blog and you all let me down! Do you know how hard it is to google this stuff! I had to go through a whole link to find this!


Just bookmark this link -- you can use it every week to find the current (and prior) blog posts by Jeff Probst:

http://popwatch.ew.com/author/ewjprobst/


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

And Jeff usually links to Dalton Ross's blog at the end of his own. It's worth a read too.


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

heySkippy said:


> And Jeff usually links to Dalton Ross's blog at the end of his own. It's worth a read too.


Dalton's blog is usually a great read... I just can't stand to listen to him.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

StanSimmons said:


> Dalton's blog is usually a great read... I just can't stand to listen to him.


while I LOVE reading Jeff's blog, I really don't like Dalton's....he just seems to like to talk


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

NoThru22 said:


> I scanned this whole damn thread for a link to the blog and you all let me down! Do you know how hard it is to google this stuff! I had to go through a whole link to find this!


Just subscribe to it in an RSS reader or save a live bookmark.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I <3 Russell. That is all. :up:


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

I like Jeff's blog better as well, but when I read what Dalton said on the top of page 2 of his blog, it resent those cynical feelings of something is rotten right to the forefront of my thoughts. I still maintain there was some BS going on behind the scenes. THere are some alluding to the fact that Parvati and Russell have some deal PRIOR to H vs Villians and Russell has some relationship/friendship with Parvati's brother. 



I believe way too much credit is being given to Russell in this case. I believe more like the perfect storm fell into place, more so than Russell's ability to make it happen, as in outside forces beyond Russell's control made this happen, like Rob's decision to split and Tyson's stupidity. The only thing Russell really was in control of, the idol, he made a stupid move with and I believe it will cost him yet. In fact he really wasn't even in control of the idol as BRob got exactly what he wanted which was to flush out the idol.

Ok, a bit extreme, but I really believe CBS got Tyson to flip, paid him off or what ever, because really it was Russell or Parvati going beyond a reasonable doubt, and who thinks CBS would want the viewers to see hang around longer, Tyson or Parvati or Russell.

Is Russell really that good, or the reality...Russell is only as good as those around him let him be.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

hughmcjr said:


> Ok, a bit extreme, but I really believe CBS got Tyson to flip, paid him off or what ever


You are hilarious.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

hughmcjr said:


> THere are some alluding to the fact that Parvati and Russell have some deal PRIOR to H vs Villians and Russell has some relationship/friendship with Parvati's brother.


Where did you see that? Certainly not in Dalton's blog...


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Jebberwocky! said:


>


FYP


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

jradosh said:


> FYP


thanks  FTR I asked my wife for the correct spelling (I'm a terrible speller as you can see)


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Jebberwocky! said:


> thanks  FTR I asked my wife for the correct spelling (I'm a terrible speller as you can see)


If your original post (#151) is the reason the page won't completely load, any chance you could fix it or delete that one?


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

JLucPicard said:


> If your original post (#151) is the reason the page won't completely load, any chance you could fix it or delete that one?


What post?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> You are hilarious.


+1


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

jradosh said:


> I would love to get an animation of Rob's face from the start of TC to after the vote. The "smug" just melted off his face.












hahahahah great moment! :up:


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Jebberwocky! said:


> What post?


Bazinga!


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

hughmcjr said:


> Ok, a bit extreme, but I really believe CBS got Tyson to flip, paid him off or what ever, because really it was Russell or Parvati going beyond a reasonable doubt, and who thinks CBS would want the viewers to see hang around longer, Tyson or Parvati or Russell.


Is that you, Stacey Stillman??


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Remember when Russell said this right after Rob told him he was getting voted out so he better play the idol?

"They're trying to flush the idol out of me. Rob told me it's going to be me, and I ain't stupid. They're going to vote Parvati."

That's just smart. And then planting the seed in coach for next week. I will hate to see either Russell or BR go.

Can we just get rid of all of the Heroes now? Aside from the season when Stephanie's tribe all got voted out and she was 7-1 against the other tribe, has there been a worse tribe?

I never thought I'd say this, but Candice is probably the 2nd best player on the Heroes after JT. And they'll vote Candice out 
next week.

As much as James was a tool earlier in the season, he had a million great quotes this week. At tribal, "You got slammed by the Dragon Slayer. &#8230;[You] got beat by a cripple and a fat dude on the obstacle course. It's like finding out Superman was in a big girdle. You seem them muscles and you get up close and it's nothing but a fat suit."

Frank


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

How awesome would it be if it were a final 2 this year and it was Boston Rob and Russell. Imagine all of the speeches/questions and all that.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

jlb said:


> How awesome would it be if it were a final 2 this year and it was Boston Rob and Russell. Imagine all of the speeches/questions and all that.


that would be great, but unfortunately, the greatest player rarely wins.
I view it as a poker tournament, Russell may not win, but he out thinks the other players and puts all his chips in with the best hand. After that, it's luck and out of his hands.

I doubt he'll win, but to me, there's never been a player as good as Russell, not by a long shot.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

inaka said:


> that would be great, but unfortunately, the greatest player rarely wins.
> I view it as a poker tournament, Russell may not win, but he out thinks the other players and puts all his chips in with the best hand. After that, it's luck and out of his hands.


This is the right way to view it, I think. From the little I've read about poker theory, judging a play or player by the results of one move, or one game, is referred to as "results-based thinking" (not a concept that belongs solely to poker, I'm aware), and is considered bad logic and the sign of a weak player. It's the long run that's important. Unfortunately, there's no "long run" in Survivor. You only have one chance (or two, or three... but not enough time for probability to favor the good player).


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Russell: 1 Rob: 0


Russell wins the battle, but Rob will win the war. I think Russell is now done.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> Russell wins the battle, but Rob will win the war.


I hope this is true. I am rooting for Boston Rob.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> Russell wins the battle, but Rob will win the war. I think Russell is now done.


when have we heard the before?

The guy's like a cat with nine lives.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Russell wins the battle, but Rob will win the war. I think Russell is now done.


Why? Danielle, Parvati, Russell and the now guilted Coach are on Russell's side. 4-4 tie for vote.

Frank


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Who knows, the Villains may not be back at TC before the merge. The only reason they went this week was the double-elim situation.

I'm hoping they both make it to the merge.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

fmowry said:


> Why? Danielle, Parvati, Russell and the now guilted Coach are on Russell's side. 4-4 tie for vote.
> 
> Frank


You think they want to keep a guy who pulled that off?

Now that he's played the II it shouldn't be hard for Rob to convince the majority that they don't want Russell there.

Just MHO of course, but that's how I see it going down.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> You think they want to keep a guy who pulled that off?
> 
> Now that he's played the II it shouldn't be hard for Rob to convince the majority that they don't want Russell there.
> 
> Just MHO of course, but that's how I see it going down.


I really think Russell win have the replacement II before the next tribal council


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

uncdrew said:


> You think they want to keep a guy who pulled that off?
> 
> Now that he's played the II it shouldn't be hard for Rob to convince the majority that they don't want Russell there.
> 
> Just MHO of course, but that's how I see it going down.


That's the way I see it happening too. Nobody there is a dummy anymore (Tyson voted himself out) and the die has been cast. Russell showed those NOT in his alliance that he's crazy enough to give up an immunity idol. You simply can't have that kind of player around because who knows what he's going to do. As the game goes longer, you need predictability. Wild cards and unpredictable behavior is something that can't be counted on and therefore must be eliminated. Parvarti will flip on Russell in a New York minute if it benefits her. Danielle will cut his throat in two shakes to further herself as well.

I forgot about Courtney but I see her siding with BRob over Russell (again, because she's no dummy and can "hide" behind BRob since Russell has already chosen his women).

I do wonder though since the folks at CBS seem extremely interested in pushing the whole Rob vs. Russell rivalry if it's all just red herring and they really won't throw down until after a merge due to Heroes' poor performance.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I think these people will soon turn on Rob because he wins too many challenges and they're gonna be very afraid of him in the merge scenario. He's singlehandedly winning the team challenges for the villians.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Parvarti will flip on Russell in a New York minute if it benefits her. Danielle will cut his throat in two shakes to further herself as well.


Sure but when will it benefit them? Certainly not this Thursday---Rob's group has already tried to vote Parvati off. They'd need to wait a couple of weeks to make sure that they have the numbers...


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Sure but when will it benefit them? Certainly not this Thursday---Rob's group has already tried to vote Parvati off. They'd need to wait a couple of weeks to make sure that they have the numbers...


Exactly. You can either be first on the chopping block after Russell or at least be in a better position than the 4 people in the other alliance. Better chance of making it to merge that way.

Frank


----------

