# Tivo Mini "Startup Loop of Death"



## MannyE

My trusty old Tivo Mini in the bedroom suddenly started trying to boot last week and no amount of removing the power cord and waiting 15 seconds then reinserting would break it. 

I replaced it with the less-used office mini, deliberately using the same power, ethernet and HDMI cable from the old one to at least rule them out and the replacement is working well, so it's for sure the Mini. 

I waited a few days, then plugged the loopy Mini into the office, hoping that a long break would help, but alas, the loop continued. 

I'm ordering a new one, as this one is many years old. So this means I can dismantle this one either to try to fix it, or to scavenge it for greeblies. Has anyone gotten inside this thing and figured out a fix?


----------



## JoeKustra

Wild Guess: Mini start up screen and then shuts off


----------



## dougdingle

I have a Roamio Pro and four 2nd gen (rf remote) Minis. In the last two or three weeks, two of the four Minis just went belly up.

One is in a constant boot loop, or else gets all the way through a guided setup, shows live images for a few minutes, then reboots. It also occasionally displays the green screen of death. After a reboot, it drops into guided setup every time.

The other can't get past the first TiVo logo (the low rez one) that comes up. The light on the front is on all the time, and it just sits there on the logo.

I'm a bit suspicious that both died within a couple of weeks of each other...


----------



## krkaufman

I'd recommend contacting TiVo Support. I've had 3 Mini v2's die within the last few months, all of them with the same logo boot-up loop, and TiVo has offered discount replacements for each (at $40), with a caveat. They replaced the first two with seemingly new Mini VOX units, but the most recent unit received was only the Mini VOX unit, itself, sans any power adapter or other accessories. I'm going to need to contact support, again, for the appropriate power adapter, but the latest post to a related thread has tempered my optimism.

TiVo Mini Vox Power Adapter Specs


----------



## dougdingle

krkaufman said:


> I'd recommend contacting TiVo Support. I've had 3 Mini v2's die within the last few months, all of them with the same logo boot-up loop, and TiVo has offered discount replacements for each (at $40), with a caveat. They replaced the first two with seemingly new Mini VOX units, but the most recent unit received was only the Mini VOX unit, itself, sans any power adapter or other accessories. I'm going to need to contact support, again, for the appropriate power adapter, but the latest post to a related thread has tempered my optimism.
> 
> TiVo Mini Vox Power Adapter Specs


So support was sympathetic, is sending me two renewed Mini Vox units for a total of $40. The way they put it is the replacement for the older mini is $40, the newer one is free. They don't want the old ones back.

My guess is renewed so no accessories. The Vox power adapter is 1.5 amps, the Mini is 1.0 amps. The bottom of the mini says nothing about how much power it draws. I guess the only thing to do is try the mini power adapter and remote with the Vox if they don't send one.

Also, I'm hoping the Vox doesn't force an 'update' to the new (TE4?) interface.


----------



## JBDragon

Wow, I had to Tivo take a dumb on me doing the same thing. Staying on the Tivo boot screen. I called, they said they could only replace one at a time, to make sure it was the MINI. OK, then it cost me $85 for just a new Reman Mini VOX, that's it. Nothing else, no power supply or new remote, etc. It fixed my problem and is working in that room now. So I called back to get the other one replaced and that was another $85 with tax and for the same thing. So getting 2 at once and only for $40 seems like a crazy good deal. I asked the first time about a lower price and they told me no. Mine were 5 years old if that changes anything.

Mine did get updated to the new Interface automatically.


----------



## bjarmon

JBDragon said:


> Wow, I had to Tivo take a dumb on me doing the same thing. Staying on the Tivo boot screen. I called, they said they could only replace one at a time, to make sure it was the MINI. OK, then it cost me $85 for just a new Reman Mini VOX, that's it. Nothing else, no power supply or new remote, etc. It fixed my problem and is working in that room now. So I called back to get the other one replaced and that was another $85 with tax and for the same thing. So getting 2 at once and only for $40 seems like a crazy good deal. I asked the first time about a lower price and they told me no. Mine were 5 years old if that changes anything.
> 
> Mine did get updated to the new Interface automatically.


Honestly these things should last more than 5 years, but $79 is really a decent price for something that retails for nearly $200 (whether you believe that it should be that high or not). Not many companies that I've dealt with that will offer discounts for hardware failure after 5+ years with no additional commitment (looking at you Verizon Wireless).


----------



## dougdingle

bjarmon said:


> Honestly these things should last more than 5 years, but $79 is really a decent price for something that retails for nearly $200 (whether you believe that it should be that high or not). Not many companies that I've dealt with that will offer discounts for hardware failure after 5+ years with no additional commitment (looking at you Verizon Wireless).


Well, if you consider no moving parts in the Minis, and usually being on 24/7 so no power surges, a 5 year life is indeed pretty short. Strangely, I've had four fail over the years, and they were all right around the five year mark.

The CS rep did make a big deal out of the fact I've been a TiVo user for about 20 years when he told me what my pricing would be. He did go off for a bit to get permission to give me that pricing, although for all I know, he went to get a coffee and play with his dog for a few minutes.

In any case, I hope the refurb'd units I'm sent are good. The last time I had a Mini fail, I had to send the first two replacements back for various issues, but the third one's been fine and is not one of the ones that failed currently.


----------



## JBDragon

I had one of my Tivo Mini's die about a month ago, and another died about 4 or so months ago. Both 5 years old. Is this a think of Tivo Mini's taking a dump around the 5-year mark?

The Refurb Unit I got, a MiniVOX without any accessories. I unplugged everything in the Tivo Mini, plugged it all into the MiniVOX. The remote I had still worked, though I rarely use it as I use a harmony remote which still worked. For some reason, I was getting these screen flickers, and popping noises here and there and thought, Umm, Maybe this refurb is bad. But just in case, I got another HDMI cable and plugged it into the MiniVox and directly into a free HDMI port on my TV and all was good. So I pulled the Original cable out and plugged the new one in its place into my HDMI splitter Box. Everything was still good. So a bad HDMI cable!!! Now that I think about it, I was having a bit of those Issues with the Tivo Mini. In no way did it affect the Tivo not booting up though.

When I called, they would only let me replace 1 of them to make sure that was the problem, a Bad Tivo Mini. So When I swapped and plugged everything in, it started booting things up. Even with the flicker and popping noises. Though it kept booting over again on the Startup screen. It would load each section say it's finished, click OK and then repeat the same thing over again and it did it 3 or 4 times before getting past that. I assume it was installing the new Interface, etc. Got tot he home screen and all was good except for that flashing on the screen, going blank quickly, and the popping noises here and there as which point I tried the new HDMI cable which cured that issue. Strange as HDMI cables really shouldn't just go bad like that.

So I have another TivoVOX Refurb on its way for the other bedroom. It'll take just over a week to get. This was Yesterday, Saturday that I called and got another one ordered. I guess these new VOX units support 4K? The Bedroom TV's are only 1080P. I did get a new 4K 75" Samsung QLED for the Familyroom, but of course the Tivo Roamio is not 4K. I know, none are $K for OTA recordings, just Streaming. Do you get 4K Streaming on a MiniVOX even though its using a Roamio? I do have a HDHomerun as a backup used in PLEX and I actually have Pre-Ordered a 4K HDHomerun for OTA 4K Recording.

HDHomeRun ATSC 3.0


----------



## JoeKustra

JBDragon said:


> Do you get 4K Streaming on a MiniVOX even though its using a Roamio?


Yes.


----------



## dougdingle

JBDragon said:


> I assume it was installing the new Interface, etc.


Is your Roamio on TE3 or TE4?

I have a couple of miniVOX's coming as replacements, I'm on TE3, and I'd like to stay there for now. I'm hoping the replacements don't insist on having TE4 to function.


----------



## JoeKustra

dougdingle said:


> Is your Roamio on TE3 or TE4?
> I have a couple of miniVOX's coming as replacements, I'm on TE3, and I'd like to stay there for now. I'm hoping the replacements don't insist on having TE4 to function.


A Mini Vox will adopt the version of its host. You will be given a choice. You may have to use the remote in IR mode with TE3.


----------



## dougdingle

JoeKustra said:


> A Mini Vox will adopt the version of its host. You will be given a choice. You may have to use the remote in IR mode with TE3.


I haven't been here for quite a while. What's the buzz on TE4? Do people still hate it as much as when it came out? Have there been improvements?

Does it still look like the child of a web browser that married a cable set top box?

Has there been any talk of TiVo just forcing the migration to it at some point?


----------



## krkaufman

JBDragon said:


> Do you get 4K Streaming on a MiniVOX even though its using a Roamio?





JoeKustra said:


> Yes.





JoeKustra said:


> A Mini Vox will adopt the version of its host. You will be given a choice.


What Joe said, plus I believe that being on TE3 vs TE4 affects 4K/UHD streaming support for one or more of the apps in some way.

I'm being vague because I've forgotten the specifics; I think it may relate to HDR support? The following article confirms HDR may hinge on TE4, but I'm a bit concerned to not see Mini VOX listed as a compatible device.

TiVo FAQ: What is HDR?


----------



## JoeKustra

dougdingle said:


> I haven't been here for quite a while. What's the buzz on TE4? Do people still hate it as much as when it came out? Have there been improvements?


TE3 vs TE4 - why do you like/dislike one vs the other?
TE3 or TE4

There are more.


----------



## krkaufman

krkaufman said:


> I've had 3 Mini v2's die within the last few months, all of them with the same logo boot-up loop, and TiVo has offered discount replacements for each (at $40), with a caveat. They replaced the first two with seemingly new Mini VOX units, but the most recent unit received was only the Mini VOX unit, itself, sans any power adapter or other accessories. I'm going to need to contact support, again, for the appropriate power adapter, but the latest post to a related thread has tempered my optimism.
> 
> TiVo Mini Vox Power Adapter Specs


Well, tentative success. I finally got around to calling TiVo Support, and they're supposedly shipping me a *TiVo Mini 4K Power Supply* (free of charge, no S&H) to go w/ the accessory-less Mini VOX. I didn't have to cajole, beg or anything, so it may all be a matter of traditional CS roulette.

One note, though... I *did* have to confirm that they were shipping me the correct power supply: the CS rep initially said that she was shipping me the power supply at no charge, but I was concerned that she'd used the generic term given the variety of power supplies/cords/adapters that come with TiVo's. And I'm glad I checked, as she said that she was shipping me a TiVo Stream 4K USB Cable! I highlighted the compatibility issue and after giving it another try she came back with the correct product name, so fingers crossed.

Product Description 
A00390 TiVo Mini 4K Power Supply​


----------



## slowbiscuit

JoeKustra said:


> TE3 vs TE4 - why do you like/dislike one vs the other?
> TE3 or TE4
> 
> There are more.


Yeah, no need to rehash all that in the Mini forum.


----------



## dougdingle

A quick update: After agreeing to send me two renewed MiniVox boxes to replace two dead Minis, I wait, and wait and wait and ten days later I call to see what's happening, and they insist they shipped ten days ago but don't have a tracking number to give me. But they'll look into it.

So I wait a couple of more days, then email to see what's happening, and a day later (today) get a response that says "Hey! We're shipping you replacement MiniVoxs today! Here are the tracking numbers!" 

No idea what happened to the original 'shipment', which I now presume just fell through the cracks and never happened. In any case, FedEx now has the packages, and supposed FedEx Home delivery is this Sunday.

And I just love that two small-ish devices, order placed on the same original phone call, are being shipped as two separate items.


----------



## krkaufman

Just be glad they shipped 'em FedEx. My replacement power adapter for my "Mini Vox w/o Accy" was sent via USPS ... was sent on the 4th and is yet to arrive.


----------



## tai4de2

dougdingle said:


> I wait a couple of more days, then email to see what's happening, and a day later (today) get a response that says "Hey! We're shipping you replacement MiniVoxs today!


Same thing just happened to me. TiVo agreed to send me a replacement and then 10 days with nothing and no info available when I call in. Then yesterday I get the "we shipped your TiVo" email.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dougdingle

JoeKustra said:


> A Mini Vox will adopt the version of its host. You will be given a choice. You may have to use the remote in IR mode with TE3.


So the replacement MiniVoxes arrived and have been set up. The old Mini 1 amp supplies seem to work just fine - after several hours, they haven't even gotten warm.

And you are correct, the MiniVox running on TE3 will only use IR mode using the dead Mini's older IR/RF remote.

If I buy the Vox's newer remote, will that work in RF mode while the Vox is running TE3?

*EDIT:* Yes, it works fine that way.


----------



## Darrin Mathis

Has anyone got tivo to replace a mini recently? As sure as my luck goes I had a mini die yesterday. I called tivo support and they told me they aren’t replacing the older minis anymore. I begged and pleaded and they transferred me to another CS rep. He told me that since I was good, long time customer that he would give me a one time, special offer of $180 for a new one. WTF? I must have really torked someone off in a previous life...


----------



## pfiagra

Darrin Mathis said:


> Has anyone got tivo to replace a mini recently? As sure as my luck goes I had a mini die yesterday. I called tivo support and they told me they aren't replacing the older minis anymore. I begged and pleaded and they transferred me to another CS rep. He told me that since I was good, long time customer that he would give me a one time, special offer of $180 for a new one. WTF? I must have really torked someone off in a previous life...


the CSR probably would've thrown in free service as well


----------



## dougdingle

Darrin Mathis said:


> Has anyone got tivo to replace a mini recently? As sure as my luck goes I had a mini die yesterday. I called tivo support and they told me they aren't replacing the older minis anymore. I begged and pleaded and they transferred me to another CS rep. He told me that since I was good, long time customer that he would give me a one time, special offer of $180 for a new one. WTF? I must have really torked someone off in a previous life...


Not that long ago, I got a bad Mini replaced with a refurbished MiniVox for $39. I would call back and see if you can get a more cooperative CS rep.


----------



## jeff-4

Darrin Mathis said:


> Has anyone got tivo to replace a mini recently? As sure as my luck goes I had a mini die yesterday. I called tivo support and they told me they aren't replacing the older minis anymore. I begged and pleaded and they transferred me to another CS rep. He told me that since I was good, long time customer that he would give me a one time, special offer of $180 for a new one. WTF? I must have really torked someone off in a previous life...


I had the exact same experience today, calling customer service after my TCDA93000 went into infinite boot loop yesterday. I emphasized that I was a long-time TiVo owner (15+ years) and asked for a discount. I was offered the new Mini Lux for $174.99 ($25 off retail). I pointed out that I was looking for a replacement, not an upgrade, and asked again if there were lower cost options or additional discounts. I was told to look for a Vox unit from a third-party seller. No joy here... Now looking on eBay for suitable replacements.


----------



## kpeters59

This didn't work?:

Mini start up screen and then shuts off

-KP


----------



## krkaufman

kpeters59 said:


> This didn't work?:
> 
> Mini start up screen and then shuts off
> 
> -KP


Alas, I just tried it on 4 recently dead Mini's and none resurrected. (3 don't get beyond the TiVo logo, and the 4th resets after about a minute at the initial Guided Setup screen.)

Thanks for the tip, though. It seems to have helped several others.


----------



## dougdingle

Anyone else find it unusual that this spate of Mini failures is happening all at once, as if some software update went awry?

I've had two fail in the last month or so, and a third one is currently coughing up blood.


----------



## krkaufman

dougdingle said:


> Anyone else find it unusual that this spate of Mini failures is happening all at once, as if some software update went awry?
> 
> I've had two fail in the last month or so, and a third one is currently coughing up blood.


I find it exceeding coincidental, except all of mine have remained on TE3 and so shouldn't be seeing any updates. (4 dead this year)


----------



## dougdingle

All of mine are/were on TE3 as well. I just find it, umm, a bit strange to be suddenly seeing a large rash of failure reports within weeks of each other, and the majority seem to be right around five years old.


----------



## krkaufman

dougdingle said:


> All of mine are/were on TE3 as well. I just find it, umm, a bit strange to be suddenly seeing a large rash of failure reports within weeks of each other, and the majority seem to be right around five years old.


Concur. I think I'll grab mine and document the product info. If it isn't software, it seems like some hardware issue where some internal component has failed. We need an electrician who could inspect for blown capacitors and what-not.


----------



## dougdingle

I sent the two that failed here to one of the well know regulars, someone with whom I collaborated a few times on various drive upgrade issues. Have not heard back. In retrospect, I should have opened them up to have a look inside. 

I also found it a bit puzzling that TiVo did not want them returned when they shipped me refurb MiniVox boxes as replacements. Indicates it's likely that they are no longer willing (or able) to repair them to send out to replace failed units. 

The two MiniVoxs they sent work well, although one will occasionally lose connection to the Roamio for an instant, and forces me back to the main screen where I have to select Live TV again. It's all hardwired, and the Mini it replaced never did that.


----------



## brobin

I removed the board from the case on the A93 that recently locked up to the logo but couldn't find any obvious signs of burnt connections or blown caps. The power supply is OK as the replacement is running off it.


----------



## krkaufman

dougdingle said:


> I sent the two that failed here to one of the well know regulars, someone with whom I collaborated a few times on various drive upgrade issues. Have not heard back. In retrospect, I should have opened them up to have a look inside.


I think I'll just shelve them, after noting their info, in case some repair becomes possible.


----------



## krkaufman

brobin said:


> The power supply is OK as the replacement is running off it.


I even tried a Mini VOX power supply (0.5A headroom) with a couple of my dead Mini's, to no avail.

Has anyone tried @weaknees, to see if they know of a repair secret? I'd just prefer to route my dead Mini's somewhere they might find new life than sending 'em to the trash heap. (Though I wonder how their having been the source device for a replacement upgrade would affect their service should they ever be resurrected.)


----------



## dougdingle

krkaufman said:


> I even tried a Mini VOX power supply (0.5A headroom) with a couple of my dead Mini's, to no avail.
> 
> Has anyone tried @weaknees, to see if they know of a repair secret? I'd just prefer to route my dead Mini's somewhere they might find new life than sending 'em to the trash heap. (Though I wonder how their having been the source device for a replacement upgrade would affect their service should they ever be resurrected.)


FWIW, on my 'devices' page on tivo.com, the two replaced Minis quickly disappeared from the list. I assume they deactivated their TSN info, although who knows.

There's an old lifetime TiVo HD on there that I sold at least five years ago. I emailed the buyer through ebay's mail system three or four times for the info to transfer the lifetime, but never got a response from them. I suspect they were just using it for off-air viewing/recording and didn't care about transferring the service. As far as I can see, the only real benefits to the transfer are getting the media key changed so that it can speak to the other tivos they have (if any), and the ability to sell it again.


----------



## krkaufman

dougdingle said:


> As far as I can see, the only real benefits to the transfer are getting the media key changed so that it can speak to the other tivos they have (if any), and the ability to sell it again.


As well as having TiVo Online and TiVo mobile app access, as available.


----------



## Rustwood

kpeters59 said:


> This didn't work?:
> 
> Mini start up screen and then shuts off
> 
> -KP


FWIW, that seemed like it was going to work for me, then not, then it did, then it didn't. I'll be calling support in the morning.

FWIW, here is the crazy sequence of events:

1) I turned on the TV and it was showing the red "Error loading slices"... call Tivo support screen.

2) I unplugged it and it went into a boot loop, then it came up with a green screen that said "The Tivo Box has detected a serious problem and is now attempting to fix it." It goes on to say it will take 3 hours and not to unplug it.

3) After a while I checked back and it was on the red screen again, so I unplugged it and started hitting the power button during startup.

4) Once I got the hang of it, the first time it went into the home screen (with a message saying it wasn't connected to our Romio). I tried to go into the settings to reset it, but it rebooted again before I could do it.

5) I tried the Tivo button during again while it was restarting, and after a while it went directly to the guided setup welcome screen. I started the setup, but it went to the getting setup info, finished "Preparing", then rebooted again in the middle of "Connecting - getting account status."

6) It then started going into setup automatically. It reboots, goes to the green screen, reboots again, then at the end of that boot up, it starts the guided setup again. I tried to get through the guided setup at least 4 or 5 times to no avail.

7) I realized if I just leave it on the guided setup screen without selecting a country, it also reboots. It went through many reboot cycles like that and I was going to let it run overnight, but then all of a sudden it stopped rebooting on the setup country selection screen and it just stayed there.

8) After a while I went ahead and started the guided setup. It completed successfully and everything seemed to be working again... until it rebooted back to the green screen again.

At this point I give up. It is rebooting directly back to the green screen now without making a stop at the setup screen. Maybe it will actually do a 3 hour fix now, but I suspect in the morning it will either be at the red screen or still looping. I'll post an update tomorrow, probably to report what support offered me (if anything).


----------



## dougdingle

That is _*precisely*_ how one of my very dead Minis behaved. It ain't gonna get any better.

Make the best arrangement you can with TiVo support on a replacement. About a month ago, they sent me a refurbished MiniVox for $39, and so far so good.

They sent it without accessories, so your current Mini remote will only work in IR mode with the MiniVox. I spent almost as much on ebay as I paid for the MiniVox on a remote that does work with it in IR and RF mode.


----------



## krkaufman

Rustwood said:


> 7) I realized if I just leave it on the guided setup screen without selecting a country, it also reboots.


I have 3 Minis that died recently that don't get beyond the TiVo logo (logo boot loop), but one of them exhibits the behavior you describe here, where there's a delayed reboot (false hope boot loop).


----------



## dougdingle

_*False Hope Boot Loop*_ is a great name for the symptom.

My dead Mini that behaved as described would occasionally actually get all the way to 'Live video' from the Roamio, then spontaneously reboot and go to the red screen of death.


----------



## Rustwood

I talked to customer support and the rep seemed to have never heard of the red screen message. I didn't even try to get into the green screen message. She kept wanting me to (a) try a different HDMI port on the TV (b) try a different HDMI cable, and (C) connect it to a different TV. I told her about the boot loop and she tried searching for that, but she still didn't seem to come up with anything relevant. 

I finally got her to agree that the box is dead and she transferred me to sales to get a "special deal". That turned out to be $25 dollars off of a new $199 Lux. I told her other people were getting replacements for $39 and she said yes, they are refurbished units. I said that would be fine, but then she did some checking and said I wasn't eligible because my mini is more than 5 years old (exactly 5 years and 1 month). I believe she said if it is less than 3 years old they will replace it with a new one, if it is less than 5 years you can get a refurbished unit, and if it is more than 5 years you can only get a courtesy discount (apparently $25).

If anyone can suggest better language to use when reporting this problem, I may give it another try and see if I get a better answer. Maybe if I do it via chat I can send pics of the screens and it will be less painful.

I am not inclined to spend $175. My brother has a spare mini so I am going to try to activate that for now. He eventually wants it back for another TV/room though, so the activation/transfer may be a hassle for us both. Our cable contract is up in a few months so I may have to think hard about cutting the cord and going to a pure streaming solution. I've been planning to do that anyway when our 5 year old Roamio box dies. Most of what we watch now is from streaming services, but I would miss skipping commercials with network/cable shows, news and sports.


----------



## dougdingle

I have found that if you get a Customer Service rep who seems clueless, it's best to keep things really simple: "It turns on and immediately goes to a red screen that says "xxx" and if you unplug it and replug it, it does the same." 

Sometimes, as in your case, even that is too complex and they just keep reading the script they've been given, then hit you with what it will cost to fix your problem. I have in the past had the occasional success in just saying "Whoops, gotta go, the baby's crying!" and hang up and call right back before the first one has time to complete his/her database entry, and try again.

It does sometimes seem to depend on who is answering the phone on the other end as to what sort of deal you can get. Sorry I can't be more helpful.


----------



## Rustwood

dougdingle said:


> I have found that if you get a Customer Service rep who seems clueless, it's best to keep things really simple: "It turns on and immediately goes to a red screen that says "xxx" and if you unplug it and replug it, it does the same." .


That was my strategy, but no dice. Fortunately my brother has given me his extra mini and it is working fine. The call to transfer service was even super easy, thankfully. I'm still going to keep an eye out for a mini on Ebay, and I'll start exploring streaming services and hardware. I want to know more about the alternatives before my cable deal comes up for renewal.


----------



## AllOutOfDucks

I experienced the A93 mini loop of death and contacted customer service. Seemed like more of a show than anything to me... let me put you on hold to research... let me see what I can offer you... oh, great news, $25 discount. At least they didn't waste my time going through the troubleshooting spiel and basically said they assumed I'd done it and was getting the same results. What irritates me is that I had debated upgrading because Netflix and prime kept buffering and instead had purchased a fire stick a couple months ago. First world problems.


----------



## krkaufman

Related threads:

Mini start up screen and then shuts off
Mini - stuck on Welcome...

Tivo Mini "Startup Loop of Death"

Does the Mini Vox self-destruct in 5 years like the A93?
Possible long-shot fix, >here<.

FWIW, info on our failed Mini's:


krkaufman said:


> ... and today we discovered our 5th dead A92/A93 Mini within the last year. This one is exhibiting a Guided Setup boot loop, rather than the logo boot loop of most of our others.
> 
> edit: p.s. Original activation dates for my dead Minis, w/ partial TSNs:
> 
> 2/24/2015 TSN:A93-0001-90BB-9Dxx
> 2/24/2015 TSN:A93-0001-90BB-AFxx
> 3/12/2015 TSN:A93-0001-90BE-CCxx
> 3/13/2015 TSN:A93-0001-90BE-CBxx
> 4/10/2015 TSN:A93-0001-90BF-F9xx
> 
> Not making me super confident about these other Mini's still active on our network:
> 
> 2/24/2015 TSN:A93-0001-90BB-xxxx
> 3/23/2015 TSN:A93-0001-90BC-xxxx
> 4/10/2015 TSN:A93-0001-90BC-xxxx


Also:


mlcarson said:


> I purchased 4 mini's and they were all new at the time.
> 1/19/2016
> 12/25/2015
> 8/3/2015
> 12/9/2013
> 
> Three of them have now died. I know one died in 2019, one died earlier this year, and the other died today. So they don't seem to live more than about 5 years. The only one that I was able to check did not have an external power supply issue -- it was the Mini itself.


----------



## SullyND

One of my Minis is shot. I run TE3. Is the issue with downgrading Minis to TE3 resolved? Does it matter which Mini I get?


----------



## krkaufman

SullyND said:


> Is the issue with downgrading Minis to TE3 resolved?


Yes, as of Feb 10th. The "dog chewing Internet cable" upgrade issue is mostly resolved, as well, with a few older Mini's running TE3 still encountering upgrade problems, though with new symptoms.


----------



## lhvetinari

I think the date window is moving forward, as one would expect. With years in active service (trouble-free), after a 2 month period of disuse, I now have a non-booting Mini. Date is 7-2015, TSN beginning is A93-0001-90D2. Booted to "Almost There" once, now gets stuck in a loop of TiVo-dude, black screen, TiVo-dude (first stage of startup, the old logo when he had a face).

Anybody had luck on CSR roulette lately before I just grab a used one off Fleabay? It's for the kitchen, no big deal if it's out awhile, but I'm not putting a full-price new Vox in there.


----------



## lhvetinari

lhvetinari said:


> I think the date window is moving forward, as one would expect. With years in active service (trouble-free), after a 2 month period of disuse, I now have a non-booting Mini. Date is 7-2015, TSN beginning is A93-0001-90D2. Booted to "Almost There" once, now gets stuck in a loop of TiVo-dude, black screen, TiVo-dude (first stage of startup, the old logo when he had a face).
> 
> Anybody had luck on CSR roulette lately before I just grab a used one off Fleabay? It's for the kitchen, no big deal if it's out awhile, but I'm not putting a full-price new Vox in there.


As expected, no luck. Rep indicates that only dead A95s are eligible for replacement - rep recommends I buy a new Mini at full-cost, or go to Weaknees to get the existing one repaired (not really sure what they'd do with this).

Looks like it's a strike-out.

Update: I'm going to see if my Comcast franchise is still a free-cablecard zone (used to be, one of the weird Chicago things) - if it is, I'll just put my old Premiere in the guest room and stick that Mini in the kitchen. Otherwise, I'll grab a cheap one off the 'Bay.


----------



## dougdingle

lhvetinari said:


> As expected, no luck. Rep indicates that only dead A95s are eligible for replacement - rep recommends I buy a new Mini at full-cost, or go to Weaknees to get the existing one repaired (not really sure what they'd do with this).
> 
> Looks like it's a strike-out.
> 
> Update: I'm going to see if my Comcast franchise is still a free-cablecard zone (used to be, one of the weird Chicago things) - if it is, I'll just put my old Premiere in the guest room and stick that Mini in the kitchen. Otherwise, I'll grab a cheap one off the 'Bay.


Looks like I may have been one of the last people to luck out and get replacement refurb Mini Voxes (without remotes) for two dead A93's for $39 each. I did not have to return the Minis.

I had a short conversation here with some person who thought I should be wearing a tinfoil hat for suggesting that TiVo is killing off older Roamios and Minis to get people to buy new gear. He was actually quite rude about it.

For the record, I believe there's a decent chance *that is exactly what is happening.* Way too many people posting here with identical "My Mini is dead" posts for it to be just some big coincidence.

In any case, after about 20 years TiVo is reaching end of life for me as a concept. When the Roamio dies, I'm done with TiVo and cable.


----------



## lhvetinari

dougdingle said:


> Looks like I may have been one of the last people to luck out and get replacement refurb Mini Voxes (without remotes) for two dead A93's for $39 each. I did not have to return the Minis.
> 
> I had a short conversation here with some person who thought I should be wearing a tinfoil hat for suggesting that TiVo is killing off older Roamios and Minis to get people to buy new gear. He was actually quite rude about it.
> 
> For the record, I believe there's a decent chance *that is exactly what is happening.* Way too many people posting here with identical "My Mini is dead" posts for it to be just some big coincidence.
> 
> In any case, after about 20 years TiVo is reaching end of life for me as a concept. When the Roamio dies, I'm done with TiVo and cable.


Ehh, I don't know about intentional death, but I fully believe there's some physical issue in them (a bad cap somewhere, clock chip malfunction, flash memory controller, etc) that's causing it. Given enough analysis I feel like an issue could be identified like the cap-plague era of S3s, but due in part to the lessening use of TiVos as a whole, and the cheapness of Minis compared to full-boxes with Lifetime, I'm not sure anyone would bother spending the time required to identify the issue and possible solution.


----------



## dougdingle

lhvetinari said:


> Ehh, I don't know about intentional death, but I fully believe there's some physical issue in them (a bad cap somewhere, clock chip malfunction, flash memory controller, etc) that's causing it. Given enough analysis I feel like an issue could be identified like the cap-plague era of S3s, but due in part to the lessening use of TiVos as a whole, and the cheapness of Minis compared to full-boxes with Lifetime, I'm not sure anyone would bother spending the time required to identify the issue and possible solution.


Nonetheless, I find it interesting that many are dying right around the same time, with most of them being around five years old.

It went from the relatively rare event to quite a few posts here about it.

And since the *vast* majority of TiVo hardware owners don't know this forum exists, you have to wonder how many Minis have just gone belly up and the person moved on to something else, or bought one off ebay.


----------



## slowbiscuit

So under that logic, the bad caps that Tivo had in the HDs were all a nefarious plot too, along with all the other electronics that died in the same period for same reason?

C'mon man, sh!t happens. I've posted here before that I have 3 A92 Minis and all still work fine.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Just checked a Mini v2 that has been running TE4 (only used it for testing a few years ago and left it on TE4). It's stuck on the old TiVo guy boot loop, never gets past the TiVo guy before rebooting again.

TSN - A93-0001-9086-xxxx - Aug 12, 2015


----------



## lhvetinari

CoxInPHX said:


> Just checked a Mini v2 that has been running TE4 (only used it for testing a few years ago and left it on TE4). It's stuck on the old TiVo guy boot loop, never gets past the TiVo guy before rebooting again.
> 
> TSN - A93-0001-9086-xxxx - Aug 12, 2015


Interesting, sounds like mine - dead after not being used for awhile. And you've got the newest dead one so far. Doesn't inspire confidence.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mjrtarget

Add another Mini to the list. Mine is stuck at the Tivo logo. I called support and they wanted me to buy a new one for around 175.00. No way am I spending 175.00 on a Tivo vox. In case someone cares. Mine is a A93-0011-90CA-**** 03/19/2016. Not sure what I am going to do at this point.


----------



## lhvetinari

Mjrtarget said:


> Add another Mini to the list. Mine is stuck at the Tivo logo. I called support and they wanted me to buy a new one for around 175.00. No way am I spending 175.00 on a Tivo vox. In case someone cares. Mine is a A93-0011-90CA-**** 03/19/2016. Not sure what I am going to do at this point.


I'd complain to another rep or two. Not only is yours the newest of the bunch to come down with the affliction, but yours is only a month outside the "5 year window" other reps have mentioned. If you have the time or desire, I'd call and clang some skulls, worst that happens is they continue to tell you no.


----------



## eric_mcgovern

This just happened to mine as well. I purchased a few Minis used (A93) the one that just reboots was activated 05/01/2015. "TiVo Guy" appears for a few seconds, then reboots. When I turned on the TV it was doing it - not sure how long as it is a tv I don't use much. Total bummer because I have had the TiVO Mini for less than 2 months. The other one I have (activated 03/25/2015) is still working perfect.


----------



## dougdingle

eric_mcgovern said:


> This just happened to mine as well. I purchased a few Minis used (A93) the one that just reboots was activated 05/01/2015. "TiVo Guy" appears for a few seconds, then reboots. When I turned on the TV it was doing it - not sure how long as it is a tv I don't use much. Total bummer because I have had the TiVO Mini for less than 2 months. The other one I have (activated 03/25/2015) is still working perfect.


Lot of that going around. I've had two fail, and was 'lucky' enough to get in on the tail end of "We'll sell you a refurbished newer MiniVox for $39," something they no longer offer.

My more than two decades long love affair with TiVo is slowly but surely ending. I have no intention of replacing anything else that fails in my system (Roamio Pro, two Minis, two MiniVoxs). Streaming has gotten just too good and too convenient. I will miss having offline content when the Internet goes out, but then life is filled with compromise.


----------



## pj1983

dougdingle said:


> Lot of that going around. I've had two fail, and was 'lucky' enough to get in on the tail end of "We'll sell you a refurbished newer MiniVox for $39," something they no longer offer.
> 
> My more than two decades long love affair with TiVo is slowly but surely ending. I have no intention of replacing anything else that fails in my system (Roamio Pro, two Minis, two MiniVoxs). Streaming has gotten just too good and too convenient. I will miss having offline content when the Internet goes out, but then life is filled with compromise.


I just had a Mini go bad over the weekend. Actually, I haven't turned on that TV in a couple of months so it might have been bad for a longer period of time. We did have a power outage here a week ago so I can't rule that out as a cause even though the Mini was on an UPS. A93-0011-90C0-xxxx, activated 23 June 2017 according to the record on the account.

I don't think I'll even bother contacting customer service for a "deal". Like you, I'm coming to the end of my dealings with TiVo although it's only been 10 years for me.

One other observation: when I logged into the account to check the status, an old Premiere 4 listed in "Inactive Devices" has the status "The device you are trying to re-activate, is no longer supported." Clearly TiVo wants the Premieres to be off the books, and I suspect the A92/A93 Minis and Roamios aren't far behind.


----------



## dougdingle

pj1983 said:


> One other observation: when I logged into the account to check the status, an old Premiere 4 listed in "Inactive Devices" has the status "The device you are trying to re-activate, is no longer supported." Clearly TiVo wants the Premieres to be off the books, and I suspect the A92/A93 Minis and Roamios aren't far behind.


It's inevitable. The current company owners were saddled with a lot of lifetime units that represent essentially zero revenue while continuing to take up their resources. While they may not want to reactivate older units, the death knell for older boxes will be when they stop sending guide updates to them. Without an up to date guide, a Roamio becomes just an offline content repository of whatever was already recorded.

If my wife wasn't so used to our Roamio and Minis, I would have sold them and moved on a while ago. I have told her that sooner or later she's going to have to learn to control the various streaming devices. She's not thrilled by that prospect.


----------



## krkaufman

pj1983 said:


> One other observation: when I logged into the account to check the status, an old Premiere 4 listed in "Inactive Devices" has the status "The device you are trying to re-activate, is no longer supported."


Was this a Lifetime box, or an inactive subscription?

Premieres can no longer be signed-up for Lifetime/All-In or new service subscriptions (link), but I'd seen comments that even Lifetime units not connecting at least every few months might be flagged as inactive and effectively lose their Lifetime status.


----------



## pj1983

dougdingle said:


> It's inevitable. The current company owners were saddled with a lot of lifetime units that represent essentially zero revenue while continuing to take up their resources. While they may not want to reactivate older units, the death knell for older boxes will be when they stop sending guide updates to them. Without an up to date guide, a Roamio becomes just an offline content repository of whatever was already recorded.
> 
> If my wife wasn't so used to our Roamio and Minis, I would have sold them and moved on a while ago. I have told her that sooner or later she's going to have to learn to control the various streaming devices. She's not thrilled by that prospect.


Zero revenue, but I would also claim nearly zero marginal support costs for Lifetime/AIP Premieres since TiVo won't replace them if broken. Heck, the revenue from monthly subscriptions on Premieres is practically free money for TiVo since I doubt they'd be willing to repair one. At this point, the writing appears to be on the wall for most Roamios, too.



krkaufman said:


> Was this a Lifetime box, or an inactive subscription?
> 
> Premieres can no longer be signed-up for Lifetime/All-In or new service subscriptions (link), but I'd seen comments that even Lifetime units not connecting at least every few months might be flagged as inactive and effectively lose their Lifetime status.


These were inactive subscription boxes. I missed that link back in December as I wasn't really looking to reactivate the boxes.

Bottom line: unless I'm missing something, the value of non-Lifetime/AIP Premieres is little more than the scrap electronics value and the value of Lifetime/AIP Premieres and A92/A93 Minis is doubtful at best. Even the value of non-Lifetime/AIP Roamios seems to be in doubt.


----------



## lhvetinari

pj1983 said:


> Zero revenue, but I would also claim nearly zero marginal support costs for Lifetime/AIP Premieres since TiVo won't replace them if broken. Heck, the revenue from monthly subscriptions on Premieres is practically free money for TiVo since I doubt they'd be willing to repair one. At this point, the writing appears to be on the wall for most Roamios, too.
> 
> These were inactive subscription boxes. I missed that link back in December as I wasn't really looking to reactivate the boxes.
> 
> Bottom line: unless I'm missing something, the value of non-Lifetime/AIP Premieres is little more than the scrap electronics value and the value of Lifetime/AIP Premieres and A92/A93 Minis is doubtful at best. Even the value of non-Lifetime/AIP Roamios seems to be in doubt.


First part: I agree. The Premiere platform is probably not that much of a drag - it consumes the same guide data that the other TE3 boxes do, and there's probably still some out there with MSOs bringing in some money.

Second part: Basically worthless, yeah. Non-lifetime Premieres are either scrap or parts donor units for Lifetime units (although I don't know why someone would do that, lifetime Roamio Pluses are cheap enough now that I'd rather upgrade than repair an old Premiere, even the XL4 I currently use in my bedroom). Non-Lifetime Roamios are getting dirt cheap now too, and Lifetime ones are coming down in price (good for first-time TiVo users in the modern TiVo era, I'd consider the Roamio plus/pro chassis to be the best TiVo). As for Minis, it seems like A92s aren't affected by this bug like 93s are, so I wouldn't be surprised if they actually reach price parity with the 93s since buying a 93 is a crapshoot, and the 95 is still overpriced for what it is.


----------



## pj1983

pj1983 said:


> I just had a Mini go bad over the weekend. Actually, I haven't turned on that TV in a couple of months so it might have been bad for a longer period of time. We did have a power outage here a week ago so I can't rule that out as a cause even though the Mini was on an UPS. A93-0011-90C0-xxxx, activated 23 June 2017 according to the record on the account.
> 
> I don't think I'll even bother contacting customer service for a "deal". Like you, I'm coming to the end of my dealings with TiVo although it's only been 10 years for me.
> 
> One other observation: when I logged into the account to check the status, an old Premiere 4 listed in "Inactive Devices" has the status "The device you are trying to re-activate, is no longer supported." Clearly TiVo wants the Premieres to be off the books, and I suspect the A92/A93 Minis and Roamios aren't far behind.


Update on the above: just for grins and since I was already in the account anyway, I emailed TiVo CS to see if there was any possibility for a one-for-one swap on the A93 Mini. "Sorry, but we can make you a deal on a Mini Lux...". No thanks, into the recycle bin it goes.

TiVo CS did, upon request, remove all of the inactive Premiere units from my account so at least it's a bit "cleaner" now.


----------



## dougdingle

pj1983 said:


> Update on the above: just for grins and since I was already in the account anyway, I emailed TiVo CS to see if there was any possibility for a one-for-one swap on the A93 Mini. "Sorry, but we can make you a deal on a Mini Lux...". No thanks, into the recycle bin it goes.
> 
> TiVo CS did, upon request, remove all of the inactive Premiere units from my account so at least it's a bit "cleaner" now.


From what others have posted, that 'deal' on a refurb is not too far from just buying one new.

From what I've read here, I must have been one of the very last people to actually get a good deal on replacements. I had two A93's fail within days of each other (quite a coincidence, huh) and was offered two refurb Mini Vox's for a total of $40 shipped. No accessories, of course. They didn't want the A93's back, and I used their power supplies and remotes on the Mini Vox's (which continue to work). The A93 remotes only work in IR mode on the Mini Vox's, but that was OK. I have two more A93's here, and when they inevitably fail, they'll be replaced with some streaming device (but not TiVo's streaming device).


----------



## J3ff

Add two more minis to the list. 

#1 is stuck on the tivo guy, pushing tivo remote button doesn't do anything

#2 says it can't see the main DVR, after years of working fine.. with the exact same hardware. Both the main dvr and this mini can do their call into tivo and download information... they are on the same network, same switch, hardwired. Sigh.


----------



## krkaufman

J3ff said:


> #2 says it can't see the main DVR, after years of working fine.. with the exact same hardware. Both the main dvr and this mini can do their call into tivo and download information... they are on the same network, same switch, hardwired. Sigh.


Until it's in the loop of death, #2 Mini may not be dead.

Have you tried: renaming the DVR, forcing a couple manual service connections on the DVR; force a service connection on the Mini and try to reconfigure the Mini's host DVR?


----------



## slowbiscuit

J3ff said:


> #2 says it can't see the main DVR, after years of working fine.. with the exact same hardware. Both the main dvr and this mini can do their call into tivo and download information... they are on the same network, same switch, hardwired. Sigh.


I'm guessing you already rebooted both of them, Tivo first? That's not a dead Mini in my book.


----------



## J3ff

slowbiscuit said:


> I'm guessing you already rebooted both of them, Tivo first? That's not a dead Mini in my book.


Yeah, I've tried rebooting both the main tivo and this one, had the main one phone home twice, then reboot then turn on mini, no good. It just doesn't connect, although both mini and main tivo can sucessfully phone home.


----------



## JoeKustra

On each device there is a network status display:








The last numbers are blacked out for MAC and IP address, but the other items should be the same.


----------



## J3ff

Yup, both mini and main tivo are on the same network, I even plugged them into the same switch and then when that didnt work I brought a new switch. I'm in tech and have been dealing with ip routes since playing Quake with friends at LAN parties.. yet tivo stumps me.


----------



## dougdingle

The older devices with lifetime service and TE3 are an albatross around TiVo's newer owner's neck. They consume some amount of resources while generating no income at all for the company. At least those who accepted the TE4 change get to see endless ads which should generate some revenue for TiVo.

In the meantime, the cost of new TiVo hardware keeps rising, as does the cost of service, including 'lifetime' service.

I wonder how many older TE3 devices with lifetime service have actually stopped working (the people here on this forum are a microcosm of the actual number of TiVo owners) and the people who owned them said "Oh, well..." and moved on to newer TiVos or just abandoned the concept and went with streaming services.

I spend far less time watching live TV and recorded stuff than I used to. I would say 75% of the stuff we watch is now from streaming services.


----------



## slowbiscuit

J3ff said:


> Yup, both mini and main tivo are on the same network, I even plugged them into the same switch and then when that didnt work I brought a new switch. I'm in tech and have been dealing with ip routes since playing Quake with friends at LAN parties.. yet tivo stumps me.


Wow, strange. I had a problem with one Mini initially where it wouldn't see the host until they were on the same switch, but they've always been fine since.

However, I did convert them to MoCA long ago with no issues (originally were Ethernet, but I used the ports for other stuff). Might be worth a try if you have RG6 run to where the Mini is, or just try it in a place where you do to see if it can find the host.


----------



## Wattsline

Does anybody have a clue what causes the loop of death? Would to have a Tivo tech tell me what component has usually failed.


----------



## ericy

We just had a Mini die this morning. Stuck at the "starting up screen". I imagine that the thing is headed for the rubbish bin.

We actually had a different one die a few months ago, but at the time I happened to have a spare (from combining two houses), so I was in good shape and could just swap the bad one out for the new(er) one. In the short term, I guess I need to buy a replacement mini.

I have already told my wife that for a variety of reasons, that Tivo's days may be numbered. We had to get a Roku box to get the NHL package. But she is still old school - she still talks about calling Comcast to add one thing or another, but I would say the future is all in streaming, and we should be cutting back Comcast to the bare minimum.


----------



## videobruce

Well, add me to the list. A92 w/ a 10 second loop of death. Led shows orange for 2 or 3 seconds, then nothing after a extended power off (overnight).
Called TiVo and was told since this is just over 6 years old, the 5 year replacement doesn't stand. IOW's I'm SOOL. $130 paperweight.


----------



## Bostonyte

Looks like I'm joining the fray...2 A93 minis in 2 month period stuck in boot loop. Not able to watch Roamio remotely now, when that goes it's time to move on to a different platform.


----------



## dougdingle

Yeah, I'm in the same boat, more or less. Two died, replaced by TiVo with the MiniVox, and two original A93's still running. Once the Roamio dies, I am done after about 20 years. 

It will be a bit sad except for getting rid of the miserable tuning adapter which on Spectrum no longer realizes the routing tables have been changed and you discover that after a show fails to record because the Roamio 'can't tune it'. 

Used to be, it would know when the table was out of date, reload the table, reboot the Roamio, and go on about its business. That stopped about a year ago, and now I have to go to one of the premiums every morning to see if it still comes up, otherwise I have to power cycle the TA to load a new routing table. Waaaaaay too much work just to make sure recordings happen, no matter who is to blame.


----------



## videobruce

This outfit the owns the TiVo name only cares about patents. They collect them.
Period.


----------



## slowbiscuit

dougdingle said:


> Used to be, it would know when the table was out of date, reload the table, reboot the Roamio, and go on about its business. That stopped about a year ago, and now I have to go to one of the premiums every morning to see if it still comes up, otherwise I have to power cycle the TA to load a new routing table. Waaaaaay too much work just to make sure recordings happen, no matter who is to blame.


Or, just put the TA on a timer and have it reboot every day?


----------



## dougdingle

slowbiscuit said:


> Or, just put the TA on a timer and have it reboot every day?


I did that for a while, but discovered that reestablishing sync with 'mom' wasn't always a given. Sometimes that amber light would flash for hours afterward. If I did it manually and it failed to connect after 10 minutes, I would reboot it several times, and eventually it would connect.

Also, I'm on my fourth or fifth TA - they seem to fail on a regular basis over the years.

The TA being trash is not TiVo's fault, but it does make things more cumbersome.


----------



## shaggy314

09/08/2015 A93-0001-xxxx
She's a dead... $25 off a new one as the only option.


----------



## cjgadd3

I also have had to replace a 6 year old A92, I still believe it was a software update that has bricked all these Minis, intentional or not. Maybe just to generate revenue. (Takes off tinfoil hat)


----------



## dougdingle

It is a pretty astonishing coincidence that all these Minis are dying right around the same time.


----------



## brobin

It'd be interesting to see what percentage of the failures were running TE4. Methinks the processors in the Mini's couldn't handle the increased workload and burnt up.


----------



## lhvetinari

Could be possible. Mine ran TE4 for about 4 combined weeks in it's four years in service.


----------



## dougdingle

My two that died were TE3. My sense is most people posting that their Mini died were on TE3. I have two others still running, but who knows for how long. When my Roamio dies, after 20 years I'm going cable and TiVo-less.


----------



## Unbeliever

My A92 has been going like gangbusters. Never a glitch. TE3

--Carlos V.


----------



## dougdingle

Unbeliever said:


> My A92 has been going like gangbusters. Never a glitch. TE3
> 
> --Carlos V.


Yeah. They all do right up until they don't.

You turn the set on one day, and it's The Boot Loop of Death.


----------



## brobin

dougdingle said:


> My two that died were TE3. My sense is most people posting that their Mini died were on TE3. I have two others still running, but who knows for how long. When my Roamio dies, after 20 years I'm going cable and TiVo-less.


I'm not sure about that. My Mini's started out on TE3 but then went to TE4. Never had a failure before TE4 but it may just be an age related thing caused by poor ventilation design. They should probably have been designed with a small fan or piezio cooler.


----------



## Sonyad

Add me to the dead mini group


----------



## videobruce

brobin said:


> caused by poor ventilation design. They should probably have been designed with a small fan or piezio cooler.


Poor design like the Roamio.


----------



## Albert

Sonyad said:


> Add me to the dead mini group


Added. Welcome to the club!


----------



## cjgadd3

Your membership card is in the mail!


----------



## dougdingle

videobruce said:


> Poor design like the Roamio.


Actually, my Roamio has been consistently very good, despite TiVo's repeated attempts to sabotage it by not allowing it to update daily. *I haven't had a successful connect with TiVo's servers since last April.* This is the second time. The first time, it didn't connect successfully for about 15 months, then suddenly and magically, it began to succeed daily. As always, it connects, downloads the update, attempts to load it, and somewhere between 30 and 95 percent loaded, it fails. Over and over and over. The guide continues throughout to have 11-13 days of data, which is why I mostly ignore it. Although every once in a while, it will throw up a screen that says I haven't connected in 30 days, and there will be no more recordings until I do. So I connect *from that screen*, and the cycle starts again.

This is not a hardware fault. It's not an Internet fault - I've dragged the thing to another person's home with a different ISP, and the same thing happens. This is some software that TiVo loaded on the device either maliciously or through rampant stupidity that has corrupted the guide database - when the download does get to 95 percent before failing, it takes 90 minutes to two hours to get there from the time it starts to load. When it was working for a while, a full 100% load of data took around 10 minutes. Support acknowledges the problem, but refuses to fix it.

I have come to believe that my problem and the dead Mini problem (I've had two fail here so far) are TiVo's attempt to shed themselves of old lifetime units which TiVo's current owners believe are a drain on profits. The tell is that when you call support, they acknowledge the problem, say there is no fix pending and likely won't be, then ask if you've had a look at their latest models which (magically) don't have the problem.

I'm a few months away from getting rid of Spectrum cable, and at that point my 20 year relationship with TiVo will end.


----------



## DVR_Dave

videobruce said:


> Poor design like the Roamio.


Pretty sure you mean the Bolt.


----------



## videobruce

No, that's even worse. I known about who hot those get, they took cooling 10 steps backwards. A friend on mine almost burned his hand swapping HDD's.
This is what happens when one has a monopoly, they just don't care since they know they are the only game in town for a specific application from cornering the patent market.


----------



## slowbiscuit

So tiresome, you're like a broken record.


----------



## videobruce

No one asked you. Far less broken than TiVo.


----------



## Bighouse

My mini is stuck on broken reboot loop as well. TiVo support offered me a $25 discount and I accepted, with reluctance. Item has been stuck in “processing” for four days now so I chatted with an agent online. He told me they have no ETA on shipping dates as they are awaiting an order and have no idea when they will have them in stock. Wish the person who took my order had told me this.


----------



## junknspam3

Just found one of my Tivo Minis in the loop of death. I have to dig up the spare. I'm not going to replace them. Once most of them die, I'm going to exclusively use my HD Homerun with Channels DVR and store recordings on my own NAS drives DRM free.


----------



## dougdingle

They're going to start killing lifetime main units like Roamios soon. 

I get more convinced every day this is a concerted effort to rid themselves of older lifetime units which are just a drain on the bottom line.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Oh please, just stop.


----------



## dougdingle

Let me suggest since you're knickers are all in a twist that you stop following this topic so you no longer have to subject yourself to my posts on the matter, which are going to continue.

You can also click on my username and select "ignore" from the popup, as I just did on yours.


----------



## videobruce

Just click on the "Report" icon and report the troll.


----------



## krkaufman

Just came across my pile of dead Mini's waiting for someone to find a magical remedy. And waiting...


----------



## slowbiscuit

dougdingle said:


> Let me suggest since you're knickers are all in a twist that you stop following this topic so you no longer have to subject yourself to my posts on the matter, which are going to continue.
> 
> You can also click on my username and select "ignore" from the popup, as I just did on yours.


Posting unfounded conspiracy theories is ok? Sorry, not going to ignore.

And before anyone else agrees with this dumb stuff, why is it that my ancient original Minis all still work? Shouldn't they have started disabling all the older stuff first? It's costing them the most money!!!


----------



## slowbiscuit

videobruce said:


> Just click on the "Report" icon and report the troll.


Heh, been on forums for almost 20 years and first time someone's called me a troll.

Merry Christmas!


----------



## WVZR1

slowbiscuit said:


> Posting unfounded conspiracy theories is ok? Sorry, not going to ignore.
> 
> And before anyone else agrees with this dumb stuff, why is it that my ancient original Minis all still work? Shouldn't they have started disabling all the older stuff first? It's costing them the most money!!!


I have an A92 and also an A93 that hadn't been connected in quite some time (likely 24 months). I also have an A95 Mini-VOX that I use daily. Yesterday I connected both my A92 and my A93 that have always been on TE3 and had 'no issues' after completing an 'UPDATE'. They connected (wired) to both my Bolt and Roamio with no issues. What's the 'real deal'?

If you've Minis on the shelf - how frequently do you connect and confirm operation?


----------



## JoeKustra

WVZR1 said:


> If you've Minis on the shelf - how frequently do you connect and confirm operation?


Every Saturday, along with Premiere and spare Roamio. Power off Sunday afternoon. Power cycle EVERYTHING on the last day of the month. I hate surprises.


----------



## dougdingle

WVZR1 said:


> I have an A92 and also an A93 that hadn't been connected in quite some time (likely 24 months). I also have an A95 Mini-VOX that I use daily. Yesterday I connected both my A92 and my A93 that have always been on TE3 and had 'no issues' after completing an 'UPDATE'. They connected (wired) to both my Bolt and Roamio with no issues. What's the 'real deal'?


Keep them hooked up for a few days or a week. See if the 'UPDATE' has any effect on their lifespan. I'm curious now.


----------



## slowbiscuit

WVZR1 said:


> I have an A92 and also an A93 that hadn't been connected in quite some time (likely 24 months). I also have an A95 Mini-VOX that I use daily. Yesterday I connected both my A92 and my A93 that have always been on TE3 and had 'no issues' after completing an 'UPDATE'. They connected (wired) to both my Bolt and Roamio with no issues. What's the 'real deal'?
> 
> If you've Minis on the shelf - how frequently do you connect and confirm operation?


Who said anything about them being on the shelf? They're all connected to TVs in use and all work fine, they connect every day just like the main Tivo.

And if they're on the shelf, who cares?


----------



## WVZR1

slowbiscuit said:


> And if they're on the shelf, who cares?


If a person had 'more' Mini(s) than TVs? Does a Mini need connected, using a 'tuner' to do a daily call or will they make the connection regardless if only powered and connected to Ethernet?

Are all Mini and Bolt 'power supplies' swappable?


----------



## JoeKustra

WVZR1 said:


> If a person had 'more' Mini(s) than TVs? Does a Mini need connected, using a 'tuner' to do a daily call or will they make the connection regardless if only powered and connected to Ethernet?
> Are all Mini and Bolt 'power supplies' swappable?


A Mini make its own service connection on its own schedule. See its Service Information display.

I think a Mini PS is only 2.5A, less than a Bolt.


----------



## cwerdna

Is there any evidence that fan cooling prolongs the life of A93's? I bought mine new in April 2017 and activated it on 4/29/17. It's still working ok, for now.

I'm considering putting this on top MULTIFAN S3, Quiet USB Cooling Fan, 120mm if it'll help preserve my unit. Mine sits on the floor right now and not in any sort of cabinet or enclosure.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Wait a minute, you have a working A93? Why hasn't Tivo disabled it??? 

Don't contact them for anything, they'll find out they missed one.


----------



## krkaufman

slowbiscuit said:


> And if they're on the shelf, who cares?


*My* main concern with my devices that are inactive is that there seems to be a history of TiVo shrugging their shoulders if/when a device falls far enough behind in software updates that it is unable to successfully perform a service connection and software update.


----------



## dougdingle

cwerdna said:


> Is there any evidence that fan cooling prolongs the life of A93's? I bought mine new in April 2017 and activated it on 4/29/17. It's still working ok, for now.
> 
> I'm considering putting this on top MULTIFAN S3, Quiet USB Cooling Fan, 120mm if it'll help preserve my unit. Mine sits on the floor right now and not in any sort of cabinet or enclosure.


I have not seen any reports one way or the other. It couldn't hurt, but somehow it feels like it won't help either.

I may have missed it, but I have not seen a single autopsy of any failed Mini where it was determined what the cause of the failure was.


----------



## slowbiscuit

krkaufman said:


> *My* main concern with my devices that are inactive is that there seems to be a history of TiVo shrugging their shoulders if/when a device falls far enough behind in software updates that it is unable to successfully perform a service connection and software update.


But that's not a Mini-specific issue, which is what this thread is about. Agree that if you're concerned it doesn't hurt to keep them updated.


----------



## krkaufman

slowbiscuit said:


> But that's not a Mini-specific issue, which is what this thread is about. Agree that if you're concerned it doesn't hurt to keep them updated.


It relates to the "loop of death" issue if anyone is keeping a Mini boxed-up on a shelf as a possible replacement&#8230;


junknspam3 said:


> Just found one of my Tivo Minis in the loop of death. I have to dig up the spare.


&#8230; but thanks for the topic stop & frisk.


----------



## mfiman

I've had a similar issue but with the weirdest twist:

I have two Mini LUX's (connected to a Roamio Pro). A couple of weeks ago, LUX #1 (only 8 months old) stopped working..it would startup and show the first "Starting up" message and then die. I knew the problem was inside Lux #1 because, when I connected my LUX #2 to the same location, LUX #2 would work just fine.

So I contacted TiVo support and they eventually agreed to send me a new shrink-wrapped TiVo LUX as a replacement (for the $39.95 fee). I got it and it worked fine... but only for 5 days!! At that point (which is today), the new LUX #3 died with the EXACT same symptom as old LUX #1. And once again, when I swapped it for my old LUX #2, the old LUX #2 worked at the same location. 

How can this be....how can a brand new LUX develop the exact same symptom as the one I returned...after just five days of use...while my other LUX works in the same location just fine? It makes no sense. HELP!

P.S. I will be calling TiVo tomorrow.


----------



## dougdingle

I don't have an answer but am surprised an 8 month old device wasn't under warranty. Isn't TiVo's stuff warrantied for a year?


----------



## mfiman

dougdingle said:


> I don't have an answer but am surprised an 8 month old device wasn't under warranty. Isn't TiVo's stuff warrantied for a year?


They told me it was only warrantied for a free replacement for 90 days. I didn't bother to argue.


----------



## mfiman

mfiman said:


> P.S. I will be calling TiVo tomorrow.


I spoke to TiVo and they could not have been better. They agreed to send me another new LUX, 2-day shipping, no charge. It is due to arrive tomorrow. They did not seem shocked by what had happened, but were not-surprisingly vague about any known defects. They said it could be a coincidence. Anyway, I remain hopeful that this will be the end of the story.


----------



## Zephyr

Another dead mini in the perpetual start up loop. Had to go $175 for the mini-Lux.


----------



## cwerdna

mfiman said:


> I've had a similar issue but with the weirdest twist:
> 
> I have two Mini LUX's (connected to a Roamio Pro). A couple of weeks ago, LUX #1 (only 8 months old) stopped working..it would startup and show the first "Starting up" message and then die. I knew the problem was inside Lux #1 because, when I connected my LUX #2 to the same location, LUX #2 would work just fine.
> 
> So I contacted TiVo support and they eventually agreed to send me a new shrink-wrapped TiVo LUX as a replacement (for the $39.95 fee). I got it and it worked fine... but only for 5 days!! At that point (which is today), the new LUX #3 died with the EXACT same symptom as old LUX #1. And once again, when I swapped it for my old LUX #2, the old LUX #2 worked at the same location.
> 
> How can this be....how can a brand new LUX develop the exact same symptom as the one I returned...after just five days of use...while my other LUX works in the same location just fine? It makes no sense. HELP!
> 
> P.S. I will be calling TiVo tomorrow.


How are you connecting it? Are you using MoCA (and thus the coax port)? If yes, is it possible something on that coax running in your place is ruining connected equipment like A bad cable installation destroyed my $2,000 TV and maybe almost killed me?

My A93 Mini is NOT using MoCA. There's no coax in the room where I'm using it. It's connected via wired Ethernet for me.

Have power surges in your area? Is it on a good quality name-brand surge protector? More than decade ago, I had a microwave oven that seemed to have been damaged by a power surge. We had an outage and once the power came back, its display has been permanently messed up. It's unreadable w/non-sense segments lit up. I still use that microwave and it still works but I can't tell how much time is left and exactly what I'm entering. I figured a surge damaged it.


----------



## dougtv

cwerdna said:


> How are you connecting it? Are you using MoCA (and thus the coax port)? If yes, is it possible something on that coax running in your place is ruining connected equipment like A bad cable installation destroyed my $2,000 TV and maybe almost killed me?
> 
> My A93 Mini is NOT using MoCA. There's no coax in the room where I'm using it. It's connected via wired Ethernet for me.
> 
> Have power surges in your area? Is it on a good quality name-brand surge protector? More than decade ago, I had a microwave oven that seemed to have been damaged by a power surge. We had an outage and once the power came back, its display has been permanently messed up. It's unreadable w/non-sense segments lit up. I still use that microwave and it still works but I can't tell how much time is left and exactly what I'm entering. I figured a surge damaged it.


My KitchenAid "built in" above stove microwave did the same thing with its display. It's been working for over a year fine but we also don't know the time remaining or clock lol. Microwaves don't cost that much to replace but these built in counter and/or over the oven ones are still $700+ which I had no idea...first house with microwave like that lol


----------

