# Survivor: Heros versus Villains "Survivor History" 4/15/2010



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Yeah that is definitely going down in Survivor history. Dumbest move ever.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

I don't even have to find idols anymore. Now people are just giving me idols. lol


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Loved Parv's reading of the letter. "BFF... XOXO... JT"


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

What a dumas and what an embarrassing letter.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

This is shaping up to be the absolute best Survivor ever and I really thought it was going to be hard to top last season.

Russell with an idol. Parvati with an idol. Uh, yeah, that's going to do the Heroes a lot of good, especially if the Villians can somehow convince the Heroes that Parvati *used* an HII (at "tonite's tribal") that she found so she couldn't be voted off (letting them think she's vulnerable).

I still think the Villians should have gotten rid of Sandra. Far too dangerous to let her stay, but it seems that the other villians aren't smart enough to figure that out.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

While I do think it was a dumb move, something tells me there was a lot of editing out of stuff we didn't get to see........It seems too....er....obvious as a dumb move. 

What I think is more dumb than JT wanting to get rid of it is that the rest of the tribe didn't think to throw the challenge so they could just vote out JT.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Sandra doesn't know about Russell's idol. He'll tell JT that he didn't need it: the women wanted his strength for the next challenge, and took it for granted they could get rid of him anytime, yada yada yada.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

jlb said:


> What I think is more dumb than JT wanting to get rid of it is that the rest of the tribe didn't think to throw the challenge so they could just vote out JT.


They would have been insane to throw a challenge. That would have put the Heroes at 4 and the Villains at 6. Not a good position by any means. MAYBE they could have gotten Sandra and Courtney, but the heroes have been infected by the Russell seed. They would be picked off one by one. At least now they have a fighting chance.

You just never-ever-ever throw a challenge in Survivor. It never turns out well.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

JT has nice penmanship.

Oh, and I loathe Sandra. What a gunt.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 8, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> Sandra doesn't know about Russell's idol. He'll tell JT that he didn't need it: the women wanted his strength for the next challenge, and took it for granted they could get rid of him anytime, yada yada yada.


Nah - better to let them think he needed to play it so that they have no idea it is still around.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Was it me, or did the girls look better tonight? Even Sandra looked like she exfoliated her skin and was possibly wearing makeup.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

So stupid!


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

jlb said:


> What I think is more dumb than JT wanting to get rid of it is that the rest of the tribe didn't think to throw the challenge so they could just vote out JT.


Aside from the fact that it would NOT have been a good idea to throw the challenge given the game's current make up, had the heroes lost the challenge, JT would have kept the idol and may have played it himself if the thought he was in trouble.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

I cannot wait until the reunion show to hear JT's explanation. 

tk


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

pendragn said:


> I cannot wait until the reunion show to hear JT's explanation.


What's there to explain? About half of the winner alliances were depended on a switch or traitor from the other team. This couple with the fact that Russell is an unknown, it would have been a good plan for the Heroes.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

You never ever _ever_ GIVE AWAY the immunity idol. Dumber even than throwing a challenge.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

The one thing I don't like about Russell's game is he always tells people in his alliance when he finds an idol. I know it didn't hurt him to do that last season, but eventually someone like Parvarti will turn on him because she knows he has the idol.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

I have to commend JT for making such a bold move however he read the situation completely wrong. A few weeks ago if Russell's plan didn't work out we would have been calling him a moron, idiot, etc. but since it did he is a genius. Same with JT, but unfortunately JT read it 100&#37; wrong and we the viewers get to see most of the picture. If JT was correct in it being an all female alliance we would have said ingenious, best move ever, smartest play, etc.

I have to agree with others that between Sandra and Courtney I think voting out Sandra would have been smarter. To me Courntey is not as believable and also I think she would almost just roll over and dies. Sandra clearly (from the last few episodes) has some fight in her and will try almost anything to stay in where Courtney will be happy she just made it this far. I think keeping Sandra around will hurt the Villains' game.

Speaking of Villains' game look out for Parvarti (and she bats her eyelashes and always wonder why she is the target, umm cause you are very very good at the social game here) not sharing the clue with Russell. Seems like common sense, but many a time we see people sharing it with their tribe/alliance too much. She is on to Russell and know to trust him enough but not too much.

I am interested in seeing how Russell explains himself to JT in the next few weeks (assuming he makes it that long as has the chance to) as this is what will make or break Russell's survival in the game as well as many jury votes.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

Its over for the heroes. The heroes have the villains all wrong and are clueless about what is going on there. The villains have two immunity idols. They are coming off losing several times and voting out their own. Russ and Parv will get rid of the heroes one at a time till they are outnumbered.

JT's plan looks like it is building to be an epic fail based on what we already know and have seen tonight. When it does backfire, JT will be gone. His remaining tribe will vote against him out of resentment, and the villains will see him as a threat and useless and want him gone.

Week after week even with stupid moves made by all, I keep thinking they could have voted Russell off again, like last week, this week, two weeks ago. Please CBS/Burnett we get it.

Hey genius survivor "all stars". Vote for Russell, that is how the f you get him out. He should have been voted out early, like first time the villains had a chance. IF he was the unknown, then common sense would be to axe him first. Interesting how not getting to know who he is or how he plays *does* play to Russell's advantage. Whether or not it is stupid on JT's part, all the bells and whistles go off for me like it is scripted. Way too obvious and playing to the crowd.

And Parv finding the note and sharing it? That was smart? Russell sharing with the others what JT did? Beyond a doubt there was more than one dumb move made last night.

There were legit claims about some idiots surrounding Russell last season, well I guess experience doesn't dictate future success. Hitting some of these people over the head with a tire iron more than once obviously won't make them more intelligent.
Coach, dumb move
Tyson, dumb move
JT, dumb move
Voting out Stephanie, Rob, Tom, and even James crippled, dumb moves.

Really they are countless this season. Incredible considering the supposed best of the best.

COurtney said it best at her day after vid. This season wasn't about making your tribe stronger. It was about decimating your own tribe and more about the individual which plays into RUssell's game in a sense more than anyone else's, which is why you hear the ones voted off calling BS on how he played. Hey no right and wrong here as it is what ever it takes. The point is Russell does really play differently than everyone else, whether that makes him better or the best, may be secondary to the fact that it works for him due to everyone else playing the other way.

Of the remaining ten survivors, it isn't hard to figure out who the strongest players are and aren't.

Russ and Parv are two with the idols and momentum, and the stupidity of incorrectly assuming by the heroes going into the merge, pick another and you have the final three.

This season is doing nothing for me. I would have rather seen all new faces. What has taken place week after week isn't just coming off as surprising, but more preposterous to the point of being questionable. CBS really likes this Russell Parv alliance and keeping them on till the end. Just coming off having seen him, this season would have been more interesting without RUssell for me. Maybe one or two others didn't thrill me either, but I would have loved to have seen how everyone would have interacted without RUssell.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

hughmcjr, your real name isn't Boston Rob Mariano, is it? 
Wow, sounds like a big long sour grapes rant since you don't like Russell. 

This season has been one of the best ever, and Russell's plays have been at the center of it all in most episodes.

But hey, to each his own.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

As much as I like Sandra, I think it would have been smarter for Russel's alliance to have got rid of her last night. If they merge, she will be trouble.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

jradosh said:


> Loved Parv's reading of the letter. "BFF... XOXO... JT"


That had me laughing out loud. And her inflections while reading it really made it sound like a tweener letter. Also loved her talking to the camera... "JT just gave his heart to Russell. And Russell is going to stab it it a million times over. Then he'll give it to me. And I'm going to eat it all up!"


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

inaka said:


> hughmcjr, your real name isn't Boston Rob Mariano, is it?
> Wow, sounds like a big long sour grapes rant since you don't like Russell.


LOL Funny stuff 

All the "dumb moves" hughmcjr mentioned were based on alliances... not making the team stronger. Remember, it's not a team game. No "team" has ever won Survivor. It's all about the individual and putting yourself in the best position to win by aligning with others that you can later beat.

I'm loving this season, but fear for Russell. Parvati is going to hang him out to dry I think.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

jradosh said:


> I'm loving this season, but fear for Russell. Parvati is going to hang him out to dry I think.


Then she'd better do it sooner than later.

If Russell finds out she has the II and didn't tell him he's going to be pissed. Also pretty hurt emotionally... he has a huge crush on the girl. Hurt and pissed isn't how you want Russell feeling about you.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

jradosh said:


> I'm loving this season, but fear for Russell. Parvati is going to hang him out to dry I think.


I think Sandra is going to flip on the Villains after the merge, leading to Russell's demise, thus enabling (not intentionally) Parvati.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

jradosh said:


> LOL Funny stuff
> 
> All the "dumb moves" hughmcjr mentioned were based on alliances... not making the team stronger. Remember, it's not a team game. No "team" has ever won Survivor. It's all about the individual and putting yourself in the best position to win by aligning with others that you can later beat.


But it used to be a tribe/team thing until the merge. You wanted your time to outnumber the other tribe so that even if you lost a couple of straglers, you still had numbers.

Right now, assuming the merge does happen next week, Sandra is in a prime position to switch. The Heroes may have been stupid, but they would have the numbers. The only thing that could hurt them now is that Parvati and Russell both have HIIs.



jradosh said:


> I'm loving this season, but fear for Russell. Parvati is going to hang him out to dry I think.


Me too. For all Russell is, I do think is realizes that he is being played by Paravti. He has mistaken her for one of the "dumb-ass chicks" from last season. She figured him out right from the beginning.

Props to both Amanda and Parvati. Over 100 days playing Survivor. That is some record.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> You never ever _ever_ GIVE AWAY the immunity idol. Dumber even than throwing a challenge.


Russell already gave one away this season.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

So I wonder if after the merge, if JT or the Heroes are going to suggest that Russell needs return the idol.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> Was it me, or did the girls look better tonight? Even Sandra looked like she exfoliated her skin and was possibly wearing makeup.


I think Candice looks good every week. :up:


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

stalemate said:


> Russell already gave one away this season.


He fully controlled when and how it was played, though.

JT gave his idol away with almost a "do with it whatever you want" set of instructions.

I'm not even sure how he thought giving the idol to Russell was going to magically make Parvati get voted out. He could only be assuming that each and every one of the the girls would be voting for Russell and that Russell could vote for Parvati and then play the idol. A bit of aligning of the planets he's hoping for, imo.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Jeeters said:


> He fully controlled when and how it was played, though. JT gave his idol away with pretty much "do with it whatever you want" set of instructions.


The person I quoted said "never ever ever" though.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

I agree that JT's move will probably turn out to be really dumb but I think there are situations where a similar move could work out well. JT just made a terrible read based on even more limited than usual information.

I have never really been that impressed with Russell but one thing he really knows how to do well is use an immunity idol.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Einselen said:


> I have to commend JT for making such a bold move however he read the situation completely wrong. A few weeks ago if Russell's plan didn't work out we would have been calling him a moron, idiot, etc. but since it did he is a genius. Same with JT, but unfortunately JT read it 100% wrong and we the viewers get to see most of the picture. If JT was correct in it being an all female alliance we would have said ingenious, best move ever, smartest play, etc.


I don't think there is any comparison to Russell's move. Russell strategized based on days of relationships with people in his tribe. He had enough information to make an educated decision and yes it still required a bit of luck to work, but he knew all the variables possible. JT made up a story in his mind based on no evidence other than Russell being the last guy standing. He knew nothing about that tribe other than what he manufactured in his mind based on one quick observation.

One move was calculated and the other was shooting an arrow nearly blind.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

TriBruin said:


> Right now, assuming the merge does happen next week, Sandra is in a prime position to switch. The Heroes may have been stupid, but they would have the numbers. The only thing that could hurt them now is that Parvati and Russell both have HIIs.


Having 2 HIIs is a pretty big "only thing" as you put it. Plus, while I assume Sandra will flip, I think it's possible that Russel and Parvati can bring Candace to their side. Hell, they may even be able to flip JT, who is definitely not playing the same game as his prior season.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I agree that JT's move was dumb...

I also agree that the Villains made a monumental mistake in keeping Sandra...if there is a merge next week, Sandra will tell the heroes everything. 

Russell might try to save himself by giving the idol back but Sandra is too smart to let him get away with it. If the Heroes stick together, they will pick the Villains off one by one...

right now, the Heroes are up 6-4.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Jeff Probst's blog


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

Anubys said:


> Jeff Probst's blog


thanks

Dalton Ross's blog


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I agree that JT's move was dumb...
> 
> I also agree that the Villains made a monumental mistake in keeping Sandra...if there is a merge next week, Sandra will tell the heroes everything.
> 
> ...


huh?

You're assuming a ton to even say that. You're assuming a merge, then assuming Sandra will flip. Hell, who's to say that Colby or Candice won't flip for the heroes? Ot JT knowing he made a mistake might then need to flip as well?

I still don't think JT's move was that dumb. It was one of those moves where if it worked perfectly he's a genius. But, if it _didn't_ work like he planned, he's not automatically going home. In fact, he was probably more on the outs with his own heroes tribe when he had the idol and they couldn't trust him. Now that he doesn't even have it, he personally may have less of a target on his back at the next heroes vote.

It's still waaaaay to early to see how this will play out.
Great season! :up:


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## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> JT has nice penmanship.


I said the same thing.

I think Sandra has no other course now but to jump to the Heroes now. Jerry may do the same thing. The Heroes just need to be smart about how they vote. They can still win this. So at the next tribal they would obviously go for Barfvati, the letter will make the villains think that. So they just dont go for her......they go Danielle. Barfvati plays the idol.....its done. They are going to be suspicious of Russell at this point and suspect he has the idol they gave him.....Sandra will confirm he never played it. The bottom line will be....will they trust Sandra and is Sandra trustworthy.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

inaka said:


> huh?
> 
> You're assuming a ton to even say that. You're assuming a merge, then assuming Sandra will flip. Hell, who's to say that Colby or Candice won't flip for the heroes? Ot JT knowing he made a mistake might then need to flip as well?


no argument from me about the merge...I even said that "if" there is a merge, the Villains are in trouble...

there are two "ifs" here:

1. there is a merge next week
2. the Heroes will stick together

if those 2 happen, there is no assumption on my part that Sandra will flip. THIS WILL HAPPEN. I would stake my life on it.

I think the merge will happen next week. and I give a 95% chance that the heroes will stick together. I give a 100% chance that Sandra will flip. Heck, even Jerri might as well. Russell and Barfvarti (love the new name!) will have to perform some magic. what worries me is that they can perform magic and it will depress me to no end...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Jebberwocky! said:


> thanks
> 
> Dalton Ross's blog


hmmm...not the full blog for some reason...

here's the link  to the full blog 

*warning: recap has a spoiler from the previews (near the end of the recap)*


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

brings up the full blog for me


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> But it used to be a tribe/team thing until the merge. You wanted your time to outnumber the other tribe so that even if you lost a couple of straglers, you still had numbers.
> 
> *Right now, assuming the merge does happen next week, Sandra is in a prime position to switch. The Heroes may have been stupid, but they would have the numbers. The only thing that could hurt them now is that Parvati and Russell both have HIIs. *
> 
> ...


To me, this is KEY!! I can see the following scenario playing out. Sandra goes to the Heroes and talks about the fact that there really ISN'T a girl alliance, that it's Russell, Parv, etc. running the show. They tell her about giving Russell the Idol. Sandra joins the Heroes in flushing out the idol or using misdirection to make Russell think he's safe, then they get him. This gives Parv the power since she still has an idol that the Heroes don't know about. This is why I would have gotten rid of Sandra. I don't see Courtney playing the game that way.

This is clearly an example of the Heroes not knowing Russell's game and clearly knowing Parv's. I highly doubt a move like JT's would have happened had he seen last season.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

One thing I don't get is that while yes, none of the Hero's had seen how Russell played during his season, the fact he is a VILLAIN means you probably shouldn't trust him.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Dalton Ross is pretty funny...the intro to his recap is side-splitting...

but in the end, he talks about the II clue having had a threeway with Barfvarti's underwear and Danielle's boobs :up:


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

CRAP 

Dalton Ross's recap has a spoiler from next week's preview in it...damn it!

be forewarned...I will edit my post above to add this warning...


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## ibergu (May 9, 2004)

Family said:


> JT made up a story in his mind based on no evidence other than Russell being the last guy standing. He knew nothing about that tribe other than what he manufactured in his mind based on one quick observation.


I don't think you're giving Russell enough credit. Once he caught on that the Heroes thought it was an all girls alliance, Russell made sure to get rid of Coach last week and then hammed it up every time the two tribes met during a challenge to make it seem like he needed help.

Not the best imagery, but as he likes to put it, he planted the "Russell seed", and it grew!


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

VegasVic said:


> One thing I don't get is that while yes, none of the Hero's had seen how Russell played during his season, the fact he is a VILLAIN means you probably shouldn't trust him.


Jeff Probst discusses that a bit in his blog on this weeks episode (link posted a few posts back).


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

Hilarious episode, but Jeri was not happy when they started talking about that "strong 3 person alliance".


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

I have a feeling The King will be played by the Queen pretty soon.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I still think Eric's giveaway of the idol and then getting voted off was the dumbest. And James sitting on two idols and getting voted off. 

Now, when J.T. is voted off and it is in relation to him giving the idol away, then he may move up in the 'dumbest move' scale. For the moment he is at "what were you thinking?".


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

One of my favorite scenes from last night was Colby and Russell talking during the Immunity challenge when they were the last ones left on the platform. Played out very well, fleshed out the plan so things went smoothly and Russell kept the illusion alive that he needed the help. Loved the "I wish I could shake your hand right now.", "We'll have time for that later" exchange.

I'd have to go back and replay to know for sure, but at the end of the immunity challenge, was there an uncharacteristic melding of the tribes in 'congratulations' or something? That seemed kind of odd - unless, of course, I'm completely mistaken!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

stalemate said:


> The person I quoted said "never ever ever" though.


What are you, the hyperbole police?? 

As pointed out, he controlled exactly when and how the II would be played when he gave it to Pavarti. It's not like he gave it to her right after he found it with a note that said "for you, dearest Pavarti. Use it should you ever feel the slightest bit threatened." Russell knew exactly what was going on and used it fully to his own advantage. I don't regard that as "giving it away."


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Family said:


> I don't think there is any comparison to Russell's move. Russell strategized based on days of relationships with people in his tribe. He had enough information to make an educated decision and yes it still required a bit of luck to work, but he knew all the variables possible. JT made up a story in his mind based on no evidence other than Russell being the last guy standing. He knew nothing about that tribe other than what he manufactured in his mind based on one quick observation.
> 
> One move was calculated and the other was shooting an arrow nearly blind.


Russell's move was calculated but also very risky on trusting that Tyson would fall for it and take the bait. Yes Russell knew how the votes were probably going to shake down but he did throw himself out there and made a huge calculated risk. The same happened with JT and the difference is JT read the situation wrong. If Russell was on the outs on the tribe it would have been a huge move.

Also another thing I feel is JT feels like he doesn't need to win again (though of course it would be nice) so he could take these bigger moves and go down in Survivor History (unfortunately looks like that history will be in the category of bad moves of Survivor)


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> I'd have to go back and replay to know for sure, but at the end of the immunity challenge, was there an uncharacteristic melding of the tribes in 'congratulations' or something? That seemed kind of odd - unless, of course, I'm completely mistaken!


I don't think it normally happens. I think that was planned out and instigated by the heroes so that J.T. could get the idol to Russel.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

One small bit I _loved_ from this episode...

The Villians were making their plans for the reward challenge and at the end said something like "I'll bet those Heroes are overconfident and will put their big guys first". Then cut to the Heroes tribe and Rupert confidently saying "I think I should be number one".


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

JLucPicard said:


> One of my favorite scenes from last night was Colby and Russell talking during the Immunity challenge when they were the last ones left on the platform. Played out very well, fleshed out the plan so things went smoothly and Russell kept the illusion alive that he needed the help. Loved the "I wish I could shake your hand right now.", "We'll have time for that later" exchange.
> 
> I'd have to go back and replay to know for sure, but at the end of the immunity challenge, was there an uncharacteristic melding of the tribes in 'congratulations' or something? That seemed kind of odd - unless, of course, I'm completely mistaken!


The best part of that conversation was Russell asking 'who should I vote for?' That one question immediately promotes Colby to feel powerful and lets Russell play the underling. Also plays up to Colby and Heroes personalities perfectly. If Colby had any doubts, I bet they disappeared at that moment.

Comedy gold.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

crowfan said:


> I don't think it normally happens. I think that was planned out and instigated by the heroes so that J.T. could get the idol to Russel.


I think it probably happens all the time, we just don't see it. Its probably not filmed most of the time, and there are cameras in the picture when they do it. JT didn't seem to think there would be a problem in getting it to him. The transition went down smooth, though. Russell thought quickly, and played his part brilliantly.


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## scoot95 (Mar 14, 2006)

Was it just my imagination or was Parvati sporting some major camel toe in the reward challenge?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

scoot95 said:


> Was it just my imagination or was Parvati sporting some major camel toe in the reward challenge?


Heh... It's right at minute 10, if anyone's interested.

Gotta love Survivor in HD.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

scoot95 said:


> Was it just my imagination or was Parvati sporting some major camel toe in the reward challenge?


I wouldn't say "major"... but you wouldn't necessarily be wrong in your observation. either


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

The advantage Russell had here in being the only unknown player was huge.

And this show continues to frustrate me.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

YCantAngieRead said:


> The advantage Russell had here in being the only unknown player was huge.


True, but as people have mentioned, just being on the Villian tribe should have been a "heads up" to JT.


YCantAngieRead said:


> And this show continues to frustrate me.


Why so? What was it this time?


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## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

Huge side note - effective product placement for me because all I can think about today is Outback. It's been a few years since I've been and their salad croutons are yum.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

If I was there I would have asked about the Awesome Blossum. No one even mentioned those cholesterol bombs. They taste so good.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

Magister said:


> If I was there I would have asked about the Awesome Blossum. No one even mentioned those cholesterol bombs. They taste so good.


Are you talking about a Blooming Onion? One of the contestants said it right away when they announced Outback as the prize.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

YCantAngieRead said:


> The advantage Russell had here in being the only unknown player was huge.
> 
> And this show continues to frustrate me.


If you read Probst's blog this week, he mentions that everyone was told that Russell is one of the top 5 villains of all time. So although they didn't know him or how his game worked, they should have known not to trust him.


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

JFriday said:


> Are you talking about a Blooming Onion? One of the contestants said it right away when they announced Outback as the prize.


It was Colby.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Russell also has a disadvantage of being the only player that hasn't seen how his season played out.

As far as he knows, he won the last game. So he has no reason to change anything in his gameplay.

If he had known that he needed to win the social game too, he could adjust his gameplay accordingly.

So it is an advantage to him that no one saw him play, and a disadvantage to him that he never saw how his season turned out.


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## Doggie Bear (Jan 16, 2008)

bryhamm said:


> If you read Probst's blog this week, he mentions that everyone was told that Russell is one of the top 5 villains of all time. So although they didn't know him or how his game worked, they should have known not to trust him.


I think he wrote "top 5 *male* villains" -- meaning that there were five men on the Villains team, so they could presume that Russell, being one of the five, was viewed that way.

On another note, Parvati's not a knockout, but she seems like she would be quite fun to hang around with; I really enjoyed the way she read J.T.'s letter out loud. I guess that's part of the reason she's so dangerous at the social game.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

jradosh said:


> Why so? What was it this time?


I hate Russell. I think he's an egotistic bastard who's made a few good moves but has mostly gotten damned lucky.

But mostly it's the stupidity of people.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jlb said:


> While I do think it was a dumb move, something tells me there was a lot of editing out of stuff we didn't get to see........It seems too....er....obvious as a dumb move.


Of course it looks dumb to us, but from JT's perspective, it had the potential to get him much farther in the game. Had his assumption of a girl's alliance on the Villains been correct, he (and the other guys) would have been in the minority after a merge, and Amanda and Candace would then have been stupid not to jump ship and side with the other girls. So JT's move, while stupid to us because we know the whole story, had at least the potential of being smart based on the information JT had at the time. 


Philosofy said:


> Was it me, or did the girls look better tonight? Even Sandra looked like she exfoliated her skin and was possibly wearing makeup.


I thought Danielle looked really bad. Not sure what it was, but her upper lip looked like she had a five-o' clock shadow. If that was a result of exfoliating or something, she should never do that again.


JLucPicard said:


> I'd have to go back and replay to know for sure, but at the end of the immunity challenge, was there an uncharacteristic melding of the tribes in 'congratulations' or something? That seemed kind of odd - unless, of course, I'm completely mistaken!





crowfan said:


> I don't think it normally happens. I think that was planned out and instigated by the heroes so that J.T. could get the idol to Russel.


Yeah, I think it was very uncharacteristic for the tribes to mingle and shake hands/hug after the challenge. It looked like Colby realized they might not get a chance to transfer the II, so the Heroes initiated the congratulatory session in an effort to put JT and Russell in close proximity.

I agree with the others that the Villains made a really bad move by voting out Courtney over Sandra. Sandra will be much more of a problem than Courtney ever could be.

I'll be really interested to see how Russell tries to explain the fact that Parvati is still in the game and that he didn't have to use the II, while still maintaining the illusion for the Heroes that they made a smart move by giving it to him and that he'll flip on the Villains and vote with the Heroes. I sure hope Sandra doesn't spoil that party.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

YCantAngieRead said:


> I hate Russell. I think he's an egotistic bastard who's made a few good moves but has mostly gotten damned lucky.
> 
> But mostly it's the stupidity of people.


But that "stupidity of other people" was implanted in their brain by Russell.

The move with Tyson, burying the machete to make people think it was Randy, the little gestures he made to the heros tribe to get them to think he was on the outs, he talk with Colby at the podium last night to really get the idol, his play to give Pavarti the idol and so on.

He has an abrasive personality for sure, and I can totally understand why people don't like him, but there's no denying that he's probably the best player to ever play Survivor.


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## laria (Sep 7, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought Danielle looked really bad. Not sure what it was, but her upper lip looked like she had a five-o' clock shadow. If that was a result of exfoliating or something, she should never do that again.


I think it was sunburn. I sunburned my upper lip like that once, it looked like I had a mustache like that, too. She did look awful, though.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

YCantAngieRead said:


> The advantage Russell had here in being the only unknown player was huge.
> 
> And this show continues to frustrate me.


Yes, and yet his advantage has been down played and said to not matter. Well it is the very essence of his game to have an II, so there is no way ANYONE would have even thought of giving it to him had they had the same opportunity Russell did in seeing the other players. I am also confident had the others seen Russy's game they would not have let him stay more than two or three episodes. They wouldn't want a tribe member who was intentionally working against them and trying to decimate their own tribe like Russell does.

I am frustrated as well.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

hughmcjr said:


> I am frustrated as well.


I really enjoying this season for many of the same reasons you cited. To each their own I guess.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I think this has been the strongest season of Survivor in years. And while I understand those that dislike Russell's attitude, I can't understand anyone who dislikes his presence on the show. Whether you like him or not, he makes for great TV.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think this has been the strongest season of Survivor in years. And while I understand those that dislike Russell's attitude, I can't understand anyone who dislikes his presence on the show. Whether you like him or not, *he makes for great TV*.


That's how I watch Survivor. It's fun to watch. Sure I root for certain players, but the best seasons have been the interesting, entertaining ones, not the ones where my fave wins. It seems so many people get caught up in specific personalities; heck, I just want to be entertained.

Russell is entertaining. Parvata is entertaining. I miss Coach, 'cause he was... you get the idea.

I don't care who wins, just make it fun to watch.

BTW, this is the highest rated Survivor season in a while; obviously people find it entertaining. Love or hate Russell, but people watch him.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

astrohip said:


> Russell is entertaining. Parvata is entertaining. I miss Coach, 'cause he was... you get the idea.


at least coach is on the jury... i was cracking up at his getup for tribal council... all i could hear in my head was tyson's pep talk to coach....

why are people calling parvati barfvati? i think she's sexy... but she's one of those who is ok in real life, but are like 10 times hotter on survivor, in the swimsuit all the time, 15 pounds lighter... and all dirty.... survivor hot, if you will....

best season ever.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

bruinfan said:


> why are people calling parvati barfvati? i think she's sexy... but she's one of those who is ok in real life, but are like 10 times hotter on survivor, in the swimsuit all the time, 15 pounds lighter... and all dirty.... survivor hot, if you will....


I find it hard to believe that men fall for her fake charm...and it bothers the heck out of me to see her be so successful when she is so obviously fake...

it makes me want to barf...

while she has a decent body, I find her repulsive...as geeky and hard up as I am (married 20 years now!), this is the kind of girl I would take a great deal of pleasure in ignoring...


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Heh, I think Parvati is a doll. I'll bet she's fun at a party.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

crowfan said:


> I don't think it normally happens. I think that was planned out and instigated by the heroes so that J.T. could get the idol to Russel.





DevdogAZ said:


> Of course it looks dumb to us, but from JT's perspective, it had the potential to get him much farther in the game. Had his assumption of a girl's alliance on the Villains been correct, he (and the other guys) would have been in the minority after a merge, and Amanda and Candace would then have been stupid not to jump ship and side with the other girls. So JT's move, while stupid to us because we know the whole story, had at least the potential of being smart based on the information JT had at the time.
> 
> The move was risky, but factoring in the fact that his own tribe was mad at him for finding the idol alone, and the fact that as a former winner he can afford to take chances, it was a calculated risk. Russell just doesn't come across as a strategic genius if you don't know him, villian or not. If Boston Rob was the one left, no one would have thought the girls had him backed in a corner.
> 
> ...


I think I've seen that lots of times before. I always wonder why you want to hug someone you hardly even know. Now i know--it's to pass notes. I think it's especially likely to happen when they're expecting a merge any minute.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Next week, Russell is going to have to explain why Parv is not the one gone. His best bet would be either to say the girls turned on each other confident they could get rid of him later (as someone mentioned already) or to say they thought he had found a HII at their camp and 2 of them changed their votes just in case. Russel cast vote for Parv, Parv and Danielle voted for Courtney, and everyone else cast a vote for Russell, who played the immunity idol.

Assuming Sandra flips and tells them all about Russell actually running the show, the Heroes are going to be unsure. Russell's best chance then is to try to argue that they're just trying to plant the seed to get rid of him because they're panicked that it's 6 of them against the 4 girls. Russell is a fast thinker (this weeks "Who should I vote out" and "I wish I could shake your hand" bits were great) and if they confront him, I'm sure he'll have a response.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think this has been the strongest season of Survivor in years. And while I understand those that dislike Russell's attitude, I can't understand anyone who dislikes his presence on the show. Whether you like him or not, he makes for great TV.


I wish very hard for him to go every week. I do not enjoy him. I can't explain it, and I don't expect people to understand.

There are some interesting characters in this game that I wish I could see play without him around.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Anubys said:


> I find it hard to believe that men fall for her fake charm...and it bothers the heck out of me to see her be so successful when she is so obviously fake...
> 
> it makes me want to barf...
> 
> while she has a decent body, I find her repulsive...as geeky and hard up as I am (married 20 years now!), this is the kind of girl I would take a great deal of pleasure in ignoring...


Yes, exactly. Everytime I see her "smile" I just want someone to slap her.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Was it me, or did the girls look better tonight?


I was distracted by Danielle's mustache at tribal council.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought Danielle looked really bad. Not sure what it was, but her upper lip looked like she had a five-o' clock shadow. If that was a result of exfoliating or something, she should never do that again.


I thought the same thing. Yuck.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

YCantAngieRead said:


> I wish very hard for him to go every week. I do not enjoy him. I can't explain it, and I don't expect people to understand.
> 
> There are some interesting characters in this game that I wish I could see play without him around.


I think he is a very good player, but I also think he is a very lucky player.

He is cocky as hell, but I find myself tuning in to see what he does next.

It reminds me of Howard Stern's Private Parts when they were going over his ratings ... both the admirers and the haters tuned in to see what he would do next. I find myself more of an admirer, but can understand why people hate him. But he gets viewers tuned in.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Anubys said:


> I agree that JT's move was dumb...
> 
> I also agree that the Villains made a monumental mistake in keeping Sandra...if there is a merge next week, Sandra will tell the heroes everything.
> 
> ...


But Sandra doesn't know about the two idols.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

If you want to see Russell's plan for the merge then watch this clip...pay very close to the last line!

link: http://www.cbs.com/primetime/surviv...VQpgpSMNVXidGeh1ke&vs=Secret Scenes&play=true


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Dnamertz said:


> But Sandra doesn't know about the two idols.


she doesn't need to know...the Heroes know about one idol...Sandra will tell them that it's not a girl's alliance and that it's Russell, Barferty and Danielle running the show...the can make an assumption about the second idol (not a big leap)...

Sandra is all about "as long as it's not me" for each vote...by switching, she knows there are 3 more votes at least before they get to her...


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

jradosh said:


> One small bit I _loved_ from this episode...
> 
> The Villians were making their plans for the reward challenge and at the end said something like "I'll bet those Heroes are overconfident and will put their big guys first". Then cut to the Heroes tribe and Rupert confidently saying "I think I should be number one".


If you want a real good laugh, watch the secret scene with Rupert that he does before the challenge.


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## Mr.Broncosfan (Sep 1, 2008)

YCantAngieRead said:


> The advantage Russell had here in being the only unknown player was huge.
> 
> And this show continues to frustrate me.


Get Over It!


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Mr.Broncosfan said:


> Get Over It!


Ditto. :up:


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Angie has made it clear that she doesn't like the out think or outwit portions of the game.

Frank


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Donbadabon said:


> Russell also has a disadvantage of being the only player that hasn't seen how his season played out.
> 
> As far as he knows, he won the last game. So he has no reason to change anything in his gameplay.
> 
> ...


But last year's jury voting was a fluke. Normally in previous Survivor seasons, Russell's excellent strategic gameplay gets more jury recognition than it did...Thats why Russell thought he was such a great player, because he's seen all the previous seasons.

And I'd REALLY be surprised if this season's jury gets that hung up on Russell's social game (if he makes it to the end). These are "all stars" who have played the game 2 or 3 times...and half of them are "villians". Unfortunately for Russell, two people who definitely would have admired his gameplay were voted out too early to be on the jury...Boston Rob and Tyson.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

brianric said:


> Ditto. :up:


Aaaand this is why I rarely participate in these threads any more.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

YCantAngieRead said:


> Aaaand this is why I rarely participate in these threads any more.


Don't let a couple of newbie sour-pusses tell you how you should feel about the game (or how you should participate in this thread). You're entitled to your opinions.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jradosh said:


> Don't let a couple of newbie sour-pusses tell you how you should feel about the game (or how you should participate in this thread). You're entitled to your opinions.


Ditto. Angie, you can not like Russell, that's fine. I don't like him and don't know why there is such hero worship about his game playing. But oh well.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

betts4 said:


> Ditto. Angie, you can not like Russell, that's fine. I don't like him and don't know why there is such hero worship about his game playing. But oh well.


I wouldn't call it "worship", but there's a lot of respect for someone that has taken a new approach to an established game... and made it work very well.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jradosh said:


> I wouldn't call it "worship", but there's a lot of respect for someone that has taken a new approach to an established game... and made it work very well.


I remember back in season one when Richard formed the first alliance. I have respect for good players, and I can respect Russell's playing style...to a point...but I just don't like cheering for a guy that makes my skin crawl. I can easily say the same thing about Parvarti.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

I'm a fan of the show House M.D. as well, almost solely in part due to the main character Gregory House. 

He makes people feel small, used to be a drug addict, abuses people for fun, and tramples on even his own friends. In other words, he's a total jerk. But I respect his ability to make some brilliant decisions and I consider him a mastermind who's fascinating to watch. I like him. 

Same way with Russell for me.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

dtle said:


> What's there to explain? About half of the winner alliances were depended on a switch or traitor from the other team. This couple with the fact that Russell is an unknown, it would have been a good plan for the Heroes.


Yep, it wasn't really a great plan, but far from the dumbest ever. JT needed to get the idol off his hands since his getting it raised suspicions.

Had their assumptions been true, it would have been a good move and gone down as one of the better moves in the game. Russell having that idol might just hurt Russell and make people turn on him sooner.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

And who knows....knowing Russell there just may be a flip after all. Russell is good at those blindsides.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Has anybody watched the video of Russell talking about his post merge plans that I linked to yet? I'm dying to discuss 



Spoiler



I found it very interesting that Russell DOES know about Parvati's II even though they edited it to make us think that Parvarti was going to hide it from him. I also find his plan of telling the Heroes that he did use it to save himself pretty intriguing. Will be interesting to see how it plays out!


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Well THAT was some devilishly good fun! Not much to add, but to say, we're having a great time watching this season too. My wife and I are laughing our asses off at the back and forth on this one. Survivor at it's best.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jradosh said:


> You're entitled to your opinions.


I much prefer a thread where everyone agrees with me...I'm just sayin'!



I'm with most: Russell has a good game, but I don't want him to win...do I think he had an unfair advantage because the others didn't see him play? I used to think so to a small degree until I read Jeff's blog about it...now I'm convinced that - if anything - it was a disadvantage to Russell...


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

108 posts until someone mentioned Parvati's nipple showing when they found the idol....


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> 108 posts until someone mentioned Parvati's nipple showing when they found the idol....


/runs off to check


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Ditto. Angie, you can not like Russell, that's fine. I don't like him and don't know why there is such hero worship about his game playing. But oh well.


I don't think anyone thinks Russell is a saint, but he has played the strategic part of the game better than anyone...and that is interesting to watch. Sure, it's good to see nice people win but it's not as fun to watch a tribe just sit around and be nice all day and never blindside anyone.

Speaking for myself, I enjoy what Russell has done because last season his tribe went into the merge severely outnumbered and picked off everyone of the other tribe members...and most of that was Russells doing. Both this season and last season it's been unbelievable to see how he almost always gets people to vote the way he wants them to. That, plus all the immunity idols he has found (or been given), make it fun to watch.

Plus, while he may not be likeable, I don't think he is as horrible as others that have played this game...like Sandra for one. Just last week she was complaining about being on the villian tribe and then proceed to say how she hates all her remaining tribe members. That is why she is a villian...she hates everyone.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

Anubys said:


> I much prefer a thread where everyone agrees with me...I'm just sayin'!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with most: Russell has a good game, but I don't want him to win...do I think he had an unfair advantage because the others didn't see him play? I used to think so to a small degree until I read Jeff's blog about it...now I'm convinced that - if anything - it was a disadvantage to Russell...


The person who used II's more than anybody and has the II as the forefront and center of his game was given an II, and had ANYONE known RUssell's game play he would never have been given an idol. Now of course we can make the claim that no one should give anyone an idol anyway and that it was a stupid move, but that really negates the more important point of the unknown player and being given the very weapon he plays better than anyone. IF that isn't an advantage due to the unknown then nothing is.

With respect, of course Jeff has to do his PR/marketing speak to downplay the advantage and dissatisfaction some are expressing of Russell having the obvious advantage. Who knows what else they tell players or what else they told Russell.  Listen to the Russell in one of the clips or for that many any of the videos/cut scenes when talking about other players. He talks like he knows every little detail and move every other player is going to make. Why? Because he does. He not only has been watching for years, he did some studying, a lot of studying of the other players and he even told us that last season, and now we know thanks to Jeff's blog that like the others he was told some things.

Russell knows how every other player is going to react given any situation from watching them, and now being with them he gets to experience and then act on what he witnessed and knows. He can act and react immediately without hesitation with full knowledge of who they are and how they act and react. The others cannot do this. The other players knew nothing about RUssell or what his game play is.



Spoiler



In the video link provided by pmeyers, we hear Russell talk about how Rupert and Sandra know each other well from the past. Russell knows that about them, because he got to see them play. They know nothing about him in any capacity that would make it a fair playing field or take away his advantage of knowing them.



Telling the others that he is one of the five most notorious villains means nothing without seeing Russell and his villainous ways.

This from another forum:

"What gets me, and has so often in the past:
When Sandra was pleading her case to Parvati about voting out Courtney instead of her, why not try something really bold.
Something like:
'Hey Parvati, I know Courtney or I are supposed to be next. Why dont we completely change the game up and blindside Russell right now. You know he is too strong to be kept around, and Courtney is no threat to win it all'

Or play to Parvati's (rather large) ego.
'You can go down as one of the greatest villians ever by taking down Russell right now. He'll never know its coming. Convince him that everyone should vote Courtney, then we all vote Russell. It would be the greatest blindside ever', etc etc.

Just seems to me like the opportunities are right there to REALLY play the game......."

The above could be for any player, but I think it expresses what some of us who either hate or don't hate Russell, or just feel frustrated about the game are thinking. Think about it, between last season and this how many times has Russell's name been written down? Did he ever get the majority votes last season and use the idol? It is like their is an impermeable force field protecting him, so after a while some of us who are cynical are really questioning the validity or at least the way this game is being played and turning out.

And it really it is as simple this season if not more so than last to just vote RUssell out, really it is, but they just don't do it.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

jradosh said:


> I wouldn't call it "worship", but there's a lot of respect for someone that has taken a new approach to an established game... and made it work very well.


I wouldn't call it worship either, but there certainly is some good marketing of Russell combined with editing IMO, to favor him. CBS has to sell the show and they are using RUssell to do it and a lot are buying him. The show is obviously skewed to promote, but that is the nature of the business, to sell.

It reminds me a bit of how the NHL markets Crosby and Ovechkin. They want Crosby to be their poster child.

And it is working. More people are watching and it provokes debate from all sides that like, hate or are indifferent to Russell.

FOr CBS it is important that Russell is the "greatest player"or promoted as such. Whether he is or not takes back seat to what CBS wants to happen, which is for the show to be successful.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

jradosh said:


> I wouldn't call it "worship", but there's a lot of respect for someone that has taken a new approach to an established game... and made it work very well.


Except for the winning part of the game 

Last season, I started out hating Russel, then had a grudging respect for the man after he showed that he was playing at a different level than anyone else.

Then after the jury refused to vote for him last season it showed me that regardless of what we the home viewer think about a person and their game play the winner is decided by the jury. So if you stab everyone in the back to get there and they don't want to reward you for it, well tough cookies.

So here we are again, Russel playing at a different level but ultimately I don't think playing like Russel will ever get anyone the win at the end. Before Russel the best way to get the win was to be a good player and carry someone with you to the end. Russel is so over the top, you can be his carry with, look the jury and say "he's a jerk, vote for me."


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## KyleLC (Feb 6, 2002)

jradosh said:


> /runs off to check


It's during the 26th minute.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

What we haven't seen before is what happens if you turn on Russell and send him to the jury to influence others. Keeping him around might mean you go, but I think I'd rather have him next to me at the end than on the jury and pissed off at me.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I don't think Russell has to worry much about a bitter jury this season. If he dominates the whole game like he did last year, he'll win. But, it's going to be harder to dominate against this group, especially towards the end. He might just get outplayed.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I don't think Russell has to worry much about a bitter jury this season. If he dominates the whole game like he did last year, he'll win. But, it's going to be harder to dominate against this group, especially towards the end. He might just get outplayed.


I wasn't thinking of Russell worrying about a bitter jury. Me, I'd be worried about a bitter Russell on the jury. If they have even 1/2 an idea on how he's played this game, any individual should be worried that if they turn on him and vote him out he'll be campaigning against them with the rest of the jury. Actually the sooner he's on the jury, the more likely they might listen to him since he'll have burned less of them.

So if you devise a scheme to get rid of Russell at this point, you need to make sure that whomever is sitting with you at the final tribal council had as much (or more ) to do with it than you did. Russell won't be the guy who stands up and vents for the cameras, he'll be the guy working everyone else on the jury to vote against you. The time to get him off is _before_ he can go to the jury, and they've missed that.

Hmm.. If Russell does get voted off soon, this might be the time they show us more about the jury and we see some of the inner workings.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I don't think Russell has to worry much about a bitter jury this season. If he dominates the whole game like he did last year, he'll win. But, it's going to be harder to dominate against this group, especially towards the end. He might just get outplayed.


Really, the only person that I would think who could best him in terms of outwit would be Sandra. She seems to have his number emotionally.

Pavarti might be able to as well, since he seems to trust her implicitly.

I haven't seen anywhere near Russell's gameplay from any of the other contestants.

That doesn't mean he won't get voted out on just a pure "fear of strength" basis, though. He's going to have to work his ass off the rest of the game to stay in it.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

jradosh said:


> I wouldn't call it "worship", but there's a lot of respect for someone that has taken a new approach to an established game... and made it work very well.


this is my feeling exactly - is it a coincidence that the last two season have been two of the best in recent years?


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

hughmcjr said:


> The person who used II's more than anybody and has the II as the forefront and center of his game was given an II, and had ANYONE known RUssell's game play he would never have been given an idol. Now of course we can make the claim that no one should give anyone an idol anyway and that it was a stupid move, but that really negates the more important point of the unknown player and being given the very weapon he plays better than anyone. IF that isn't an advantage due to the unknown then nothing is.


If blindly giving an immunity idol to someone you only know as "one of the top five villains of all time" isn't stupid, then nothing is. 

It doesn't negate anything. He's a villain...and he's obviously good enough that they would snatch him up for an all-star season immediately following his first appearance. It's an important point because they have enough data to make smart decisions about their gameplay...and they're not using it.

You seem to be willing to call everyone stupid in order to support your dislike for him.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Idearat said:


> I wasn't thinking of Russell worrying about a bitter jury. Me, I'd be worried about a *bitter Russell* on the jury. If they have even 1/2 an idea on how he's played this game, any individual should be worried that if they turn on him and vote him out he'll be campaigning against them with the rest of the jury. Actually the sooner he's on the jury, the more likely they might listen to him since he'll have burned less of them.


If Russell is on the jury, then he had better vote for the best player in the Final (2/3). Anything else would be height of hypocrisy. But this is Russell, so anything is possible.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Jebberwocky! said:


> this is my feeling exactly - is it a coincidence that the last two season have been two of the best in recent years?


But, for some of us, this Russell love-fest is getting old. It is the "All Russell, all the time" seasons of Survivor. I haven't liked him since the beginning, and, although I grudgingly respect his game ability, I can't wait to see him get his comeuppance.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Idearat said:


> I wasn't thinking of Russell worrying about a bitter jury. Me, I'd be worried about a bitter Russell on the jury. If they have even 1/2 an idea on how he's played this game, any individual should be worried that if they turn on him and vote him out he'll be campaigning against them with the rest of the jury. Actually the sooner he's on the jury, the more likely they might listen to him since he'll have burned less of them.
> 
> So if you devise a scheme to get rid of Russell at this point, you need to make sure that whomever is sitting with you at the final tribal council had as much (or more ) to do with it than you did. Russell won't be the guy who stands up and vents for the cameras, he'll be the guy working everyone else on the jury to vote against you. The time to get him off is _before_ he can go to the jury, and they've missed that.
> 
> Hmm.. If Russell does get voted off soon, this might be the time they show us more about the jury and we see some of the inner workings.


I believe posts like this are why people think there is Russell "worship" in these discussions. I mean, we are supposed to fear that he controls the jury now too? You almost make it sound like this game is just unwinnable if you are playing against Russell for any portion of it after people start going to the jury. Come on.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

SeanC said:


> Except for the winning part of the game
> 
> Last season, I started out hating Russel, then had a grudging respect for the man after he showed that he was playing at a different level than anyone else.
> 
> ...


Lying and backstabbing has been done by previous winners of Survivor.


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## YCantAngieRead (Nov 5, 2003)

TriBruin said:


> But, for some of us, this Russell love-fest is getting old. It is the "All Russell, all the time" seasons of Survivor. I haven't liked him since the beginning, and, although I grudgingly respect his game ability, I can't wait to see him get his comeuppance.


:up:


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Here's the thing about Russell: he's ALWAYS playing the game. He is 100&#37; focused on playing the game, and is always evaluating his strategy. Yeah, he's egotistical, and will do anything to win. But we have never seen Russell let his guard down in a vulnerable moment. We've never seen him do anything that wasn't calculated to him winning the game, not just getting past the next vote. You've got to admire that tenacity.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

It's not his fault he is on back to back shows causing Russell overload.

I would enjoy him getting snookered to tell the truth.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Here's the thing about Russell: he's ALWAYS playing the game. He is 100% focused on playing the game, and is always evaluating his strategy. Yeah, he's egotistical, and will do anything to win. But we have never seen Russell let his guard down in a vulnerable moment. We've never seen him do anything that wasn't calculated to him winning the game, not just getting past the next vote. You've got to admire that tenacity.


The recent video they put up on the cbs.com/survivor website is another testament to this. He rattles on about all his post-merge plans, and you can just see it in eyes how he's living and breathing this game and loving it. For him, it's all strategy, all the time. No "her laugh is annoying we should vote her out" or "he burns the rice let's vote him out" nonsense for him.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

TriBruin said:


> But, for some of us, this Russell love-fest is getting old. It is the "All Russell, all the time" seasons of Survivor. I haven't liked him since the beginning, and, although I grudgingly respect his game ability, I can't wait to see him get his comeuppance.


Did you miss last season's finale?


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

YCantAngieRead said:


> :up:


:down:


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

TriBruin said:


> But, for some of us, this Russell love-fest is getting old. It is the "All Russell, all the time" seasons of Survivor. I haven't liked him since the beginning, and, although I grudgingly respect his game ability, I can't wait to see him get his comeuppance.


Many get offended when I make this claim, but screw it. Look, I know we all have our own minds, but come on, the majority of people liking Russell and the way he plays is ALL due to how CBS is promoting him and editing the show. IF Russell wasn't presented the way he is and shown the way he is due to editing we wouldn't be hearing half this talk and support for or against him. It does work both ways, like him or hate him, but anyone who likes Russell can claim all they want that it is thru their own volition that they like him, but I call BS and say many are buying a great sell from a con man and marketing team that has not only his fellow survivors sold on him, but many at home as well. CBS has done well. 

And if you think the love of Russell is big here, try going to the CBS forum where he is a god in some circles. He craps out HII's from what some say and can do no wrong. 

It is going to get really ugly for a few days on these survivor forums from supporters of his expecting Russell to win. When he doesn't we will be hearing about it,ugh!.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Dnamertz said:


> Lying and backstabbing has been done by previous winners of Survivor.





Jeeters said:


> The recent video they put up on the cbs.com/survivor website is another testament to this. He rattles on about all his post-merge plans, and you can just see it in eyes how he's living and breathing this game and loving it. For him, it's all strategy, all the time. No "her laugh is annoying we should vote her out" or "he burns the rice let's vote him out" nonsense for him.


I can respect that he is all about the game. That is good and that shows. But we have seen it with other games. Parvarti and Boston Rob are two examples. They played the other members of their tribe. What's his face that said his grandmother was dead - I know he isn't in the others league, but man, he was good for a few episodes.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

hughmcjr said:


> Many get offended when I make this claim, but screw it. Look, I know we all have our own minds, but come on, the majority of people liking Russell and the way he plays is ALL due to how CBS is promoting him and editing the show. IF Russell wasn't presented the way he is and shown the way he is due to editing we wouldn't be hearing half this talk and support for or against him. It does work both ways, like him or hate him, but anyone who likes Russell can claim all they want that it is thru their own volition that they like him, but I call BS and say many are buying a great sell from a con man and marketing team that has not only his fellow survivors sold on him, but many at home as well. CBS has done well.


I think what _you're_ missing is that a lot of people don't care about that. We're just happy to be entertained.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Russell is the perfect player to keep next to until the end - Parvati is playing him perfectly, assuming they are the final two. I think her strategy is exactly what Boston Rob should have done. Letting Russell be the bad guy makes for an easy jury vote; especially when he does what he does with no regard for hard feelings afterward.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

hughmcjr said:


> I call BS and say many are buying a great sell from a con man and marketing team that has not only his fellow survivors sold on him, but many at home as well. CBS has done well.


True.

But this applies to _every single episode of Survivor for the past 20 seasons_. It's not unique to Russell.

Or do you really think the brain trust at CBS suddenly realized that they might get better ratings if they started manipulating the perception of Russell and _only_ Russell? Of course not.

Why is it so hard for some of you to admit that some of us simply find Russell an entertaining character?


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

jradosh said:


> Why is it so hard for some of you to admit that some of us simply find Russell an entertaining character?


Personally, I think Russell is one of the most entertaining players ever, no doubt about it!

However, I do not think "entertaining" = "good at the game" and I do think he's over rated as a player.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> 108 posts until someone mentioned Parvati's nipple showing when they found the idol....


silhouette only, but confirmed


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

I need more proof than that!


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Jebberwocky! said:


> I need more proof than that!


They have a whole site dedicated to Parvati "Nipple Slips" here: 

http://www.thebestlinks.com/tag/parvati-nipple-slip.html

Psyche!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

latrobe7 said:


> Russell is the perfect player to keep next to until the end - Parvati is playing him perfectly, assuming they are the final two. I think her strategy is exactly what Boston Rob should have done. Letting Russell be the bad guy makes for an easy jury vote; especially when he does what he does with no regard for hard feelings afterward.


I wish Boston Rob had done it, he is cuter that Russell.



jradosh said:


> Why is it so hard for some of you to admit that some of us simply find Russell an entertaining character?


I think I found him more entertaining in his first game.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

hughmcjr said:


> The person who used II's more than anybody and has the II as the forefront and center of his game was given an II, and had ANYONE known RUssell's game play he would never have been given an idol. Now of course we can make the claim that no one should give anyone an idol anyway and that it was a stupid move, but that really negates the more important point of the unknown player and being given the very weapon he plays better than anyone. IF that isn't an advantage due to the unknown then nothing is.


You can just as easily make the claim that Russell being unkown was a disadvantage to him. I'm still surprised he wasn't voted out by now simply because he is unpredictable (being unknown). All the other villain tribe members know everything about each other's gameplay. They've watched each other's seasons...and some have even played together before so they know who is trustworthy and who is not. Russell is the first person they should have been threatened by because he is unpredictable. They know what to expect with eachother...but not with Russell.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Russell is the perfect player to keep next to until the end - Parvati is playing him perfectly, assuming they are the final two. I think her strategy is exactly what Boston Rob should have done. Letting Russell be the bad guy makes for an easy jury vote; especially when he does what he does with no regard for hard feelings afterward.


I agree.

She kind of lucked into her position, but she's playing it very well.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> She kind of lucked into her position, but she's playing it very well.


The story of her life, I imagine.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

VegasVic said:


> One thing I don't get is that while yes, none of the Hero's had seen how Russell played during his season, the fact he is a VILLAIN means you probably shouldn't trust him.


Not only that, but out of ALL the villians in past seasons, he's one of the top 5 male villians chosen for the show. Sure, an argument can be made that perhaps someone declined to return (Crazy Shawn Powers) or was unable to (Machiavellian Richard Hatch), but to give up an idol on the assumption that you've telegraphed to them by talking about it loudly and openly during challenges directly to them is pretty dumb.

I understand the idea, but here's what I don't get. Why?

The Heroes have an idol that the Villians don't know about. They might assume that the Heroes have gotten a second clue, but every one of the Heroes can confirm independently that Tom found and played their idol.

The assumption is that there will be a merge and that you'll go to that merge with 5 vs. 5 if the Heroes win the immunity challenge (they did).

Colby flips or Candice flips, but I would think that the better flipper would be Amanda by approaching Parvati and Danielle asking for room in their alliance with herself and Candice. She finds out who the Villians are going to vote for (likely either JT, Rupert, or Colby) and report back. That person uses the Heroes' idol and unless the Villians play their idol, one of them goes home (likely either Parvati or Russell).

The trouble will be is if the Heroes don't believe Sandra (who, by her vindictive nature knows that she's on the bottom of the Villians totem pole and REALLY wants to stick it to Russell and Parvati for voting out her protection (Coach and Courtney)) and Sandra gets fed a lie about who the Villians are voting for, reports that to the Heroes, the Heroes use their idol, and are now down and out for the count while the Parvati retains her unknown idol.

JT is now, in my opinion, the title holder of "Stupidest Survivor Move Ever" surpassing Eric. Eric knew the situation and still gave up the idol. JT can only guess about the situation and have up a hidden idol.

I don't know why the Heroes were so keen on making sure Russell stayed in the game. Again, they had their own hidden unknown-to-the-Villians Idol. If there IS a womens' alliance, how difficult would it be/have seemed for Amanda and Candice to jump to that ship and vote off the remaining guys. Easy easy, all the while knowing they've got an ace up their sleeve because the Villian's woman alliance doesn't know the man they'll be voting for will play a hidden immunity idol.

I know JT found the idol, but why didn't someone try and convince him much harder to keep the idol for the entire group at the merge instead of use it on an assumption.

Dumbest.Move.Ever.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

hughmcjr said:


> The person who used II's more than anybody and has the II as the forefront and center of his game was given an II, and had ANYONE known RUssell's game play he would never have been given an idol. Now of course we can make the claim that no one should give anyone an idol anyway and that it was a stupid move, but that really negates the more important point of the unknown player and being given the very weapon he plays better than anyone. IF that isn't an advantage due to the unknown then nothing is.


Well, then Amanda and Parvati with 100 days of play have an even more pronounced advantage. The game is simple. Use what you brought into the game to play. That includes what you know and what they don't know. It's entirely possible, in fact, likely that players who played one way before will act in completely different and unknown ways a second or third time. I don't really see that as a huge advantage. To me, the single best advantage is more time in the game. That means Amanda and Parvati have the biggest advantage but you still have no idea how that will play out.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Dnamertz said:


> And I'd REALLY be surprised if this season's jury gets that hung up on Russell's social game (if he makes it to the end). These are "all stars" who have played the game 2 or 3 times...and half of them are "villians". Unfortunately for Russell, two people who definitely would have admired his gameplay were voted out too early to be on the jury...Boston Rob and Tyson.


Under the assumption that Sandra makes the jury, that right there makes 3 members voting against Russell. Sandra because she's vindictive and mean, Courtney for the same reasons, and Coach because he feels as if he was betrayed after pledging his fealty to King Russell. Continuing with the assumption, Rupert and Colby will certainly be angry that Russell didn't join them, and won't "respect" that kind of play. That's 3 solid against and 2 likely against. Russell is a long shot to win this game.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

hughmcjr said:


> With respect, of course Jeff has to do his PR/marketing speak to downplay the advantage and dissatisfaction some are expressing of Russell having the obvious advantage.


Before they brought Russell back, the producers told him that because there was no "record" of him, he would very likely be treated with extreme prejudice by the Villians, be one of the first ones voted out. He said he was fine with those odds. The returning Heroes & Villians were simply told that he was one of the top 5 male Villians of all time.

That Russell was able to get Randy out before him (through strategic play of hiding the machete and subtlely blaming Randy for it) is a testament to his gameplay and ability to read and manipulate people.

The Villians should have made him the first person off their tribe based solely on the fact that none of them knew him and that none of them knew what he did to get there in the first place. They failed to see that and have paid the price.


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## bdlou21 (Jul 10, 2006)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Not only that, but out of ALL the villians in past seasons, he's one of the top 5 male villians chosen for the show. Sure, an argument can be made that perhaps someone declined to return (Crazy Shawn Powers) or was unable to (Machiavellian Richard Hatch), but to give up an idol on the assumption that you've telegraphed to them by talking about it loudly and openly during challenges directly to them is pretty dumb.
> 
> I understand the idea, but here's what I don't get. Why?
> 
> ...


They said he was one of the top five since 5 guys were selected for the villain tribe. If you look at it like that, Coach was selected and he isn't devious at all. Randy wasn't either. He was just a dick. However, I agree JT should have realized he was picked as a villain for some reason and shouldn't trust him for that simple fact.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Up until this episode, JT has been flip flopping on which of his own tribe to throw under the bus.

Frank


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Sandra because she's vindictive and mean, Courtney for the same reasons.


Courtney is vindictive? I don't think so. Sure she can be a smart mouth, but that's about as far as it goes. All bark and no bite. She even said in her exit interview that she doesn't really hate anybody on the tribe and she wishes them all the best of luck.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Not only that, but out of ALL the villians in past seasons, he's one of the top 5 male villians chosen for the show.





bdlou21 said:


> They said he was one of the top five since 5 guys were selected for the villain tribe. *If you look at it like that*, Coach was selected and he isn't devious at all.


Why would you look at it like that when Jeff explicitly said in his blog, "We told everybody at the start of the show that they should read a lot into the fact that while they hadnt seen Russell play, Russell was selected as *one of the 5 most notorious male villains of all time."* ?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Jeeters said:


> Why would you look at it like that when Jeff explicitly said in his blog, "We told everybody at the start of the show that they should read a lot into the fact that while they hadnt seen Russell play, Russell was selected as *one of the 5 most notorious male villains of all time."* ?


I'm not one that buys into the fact that Russell had a huge advantage. But what Jeff said doesn't really carry much weight either. The Villains tribe was made up of five men and five women. Therefore, each of the five men on the Villains tribe could be considered "one of the five most notorious male villains of all time." All that means is that Russell is on par with Tyson and Coach and Randy. Not really all that villainous, if you ask me. If they're selecting those people as notorious male villains, then I consider their judgment to be clouded and then I have to wonder how villainous Russell really is.

Now if Jeff had qualified that statement, by saying something like, "He's one of the five most notorious male villains to ever play Survivor, and that includes many players who are not part of this Villains tribe for a number of reasons, then that gives it much more credibility, IMO. But I don't think anyone attached to the show is going to admit that there were much more villainous possibilities out there who got left at home because the fans didn't like them, or because they needed equal numbers of men and women, or because they were in jail, or because they didn't want to play the game again, etc.


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## tcristy (Feb 11, 2005)

At Ponderosa, Courtney told Coach that Parvati was the one that wanted him gone and Russel did not vote to send him home...


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

tcristy said:


> At Ponderosa, Courtney told Coach that Parvati was the one that wanted him gone and Russel did not vote to send him home...


Not to mention that Russell signed his vote for Courtney.


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Under the assumption that Sandra makes the jury, that right there makes 3 members voting against Russell. Sandra because she's vindictive and mean, Courtney for the same reasons, and Coach because he feels as if he was betrayed after pledging his fealty to King Russell. Continuing with the assumption, Rupert and Colby will certainly be angry that Russell didn't join them, and won't "respect" that kind of play. That's 3 solid against and 2 likely against. Russell is a long shot to win this game.


There is no such thing as a sure vote in this game. We've often seen people put the personal vindictive feelings aside and vote for who "played the best game". If Courtney is going to be vindictive, then she won't vote for Sandra either since Sandra voted to evict her. And Russell didn't vote for Coach...everyone else did.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

hughmcjr said:


> the majority of people liking Russell and the way he plays is ALL due to how CBS is promoting him and editing the show. IF Russell wasn't presented the way he is and shown the way he is due to editing we wouldn't be hearing half this talk and support for or against him.


Oh, yeah. Russell is being promoted favorably so that people like him, and they are doing it by showing us clips of him burning people's socks, emptying the canteens, burying the machete, insulting all of the players of his previous season, etc. Right?


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

Bahh bahh, I'm a sheep!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

the Russell haters (and me, the Barfarti hater) need to take note: while I think the Heroes have the upper hand and should breeze through the Villains, I don't think that will happen...

be prepared for Russell to turn the tables (and for Barfarti to be right there with him taking the credit) and make a game of it...

the heroes are too dumb to take advantage of their good fortune...


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

crowfan said:


> Bahh bahh, I'm a sheep!


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Right now its five heroes and five villains left: Rupert, Colby, JT, Amanda and Candace vs. Russell, Pavarti, Danielle, Jerri, and Sandra. The Russell/Parvati/Danielle alliance looks pretty solid, and they have two II's. Sandra will flip to the heroes in a second, and Jerri will probably be right behind them. Let's assume those idols will be put to good use, and Russell's alliance survives two votes: then its either five to three (if Jerri flips) or four to four (if she sticks with the villains.) Its going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.


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## ibergu (May 9, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> Right now its five heroes and five villains left: Rupert, Colby, JT, Amanda and Candace vs. Russell, Pavarti, Danielle, Jerri, and Sandra. *The Russell/Parvati/Danielle alliance looks pretty solid*, and they have two II's. Sandra will flip to the heroes in a second, and Jerri will probably be right behind them. Let's assume those idols will be put to good use, and Russell's alliance survives two votes: then its either five to three (if Jerri flips) or four to four (if she sticks with the villains.) Its going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.


I'm not so sure how solid they (Russell/Parvarti/Danielle) really are. Parvarti not letting Russell know about the hidden immunity idol she and Danielle found, plus the look in her eye when she was talking to Courtney about who should go next, I could've sworn that the wheels were turning and I was actually anticipating an early exit for Russell. I think she could care less about him, despite his "chivalry" in saving her earlier in the season.

I agree though that it'll be very interesting to see how it all plays out. Can't wait until Thursday!


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

I don't see Sandra flipping, she just doesn't make any big moves like that. She'll tell them about Russell, then sit back and watch. Her whole strategy is 'anybody but me', so she's just filling them in so they target Russell instead of her. If she can keep the villains after the heroes, that's five more weeks for her and plenty of time to work on her own tribe. With two idols, I can't see a villain going home next. Russell will target one of the hero guys and knock em out.


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## hughmcjr (Nov 27, 2006)

LordKronos said:


> Oh, yeah. Russell is being promoted favorably so that people like him, and they are doing it by showing us clips of him burning people's socks, emptying the canteens, burying the machete, insulting all of the players of his previous season, etc. Right?


Your joking right? Let's be real. He is all the talk on the net, positive or negative. More like him and how he plays than don't. GIving him air time, the way Jeff talks about him since the previous season, and on and on, and yes Russell is being promoted mostly favorably even when doing negative crap. If people that don't like him are anxious to see what he does and they even say he has a good game then editing and marketing by CBS has been successful. Notice no one really gives a damn about the sox or machetes.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

hughmcjr said:


> Your joking right? Let's be real. He is all the talk on the net, positive or negative. More like him and how he plays than don't. GIving him air time, the way Jeff talks about him since the previous season, and on and on, and yes Russell is being promoted mostly favorably even when doing negative crap. If people that don't like him are anxious to see what he does and they even say he has a good game then editing and marketing by CBS has been successful. Notice no one really gives a damn about the sox or machetes.


Notice that Survivor gained popularity in its first season due to the strategic play of Richard Hatch. He was the first to realize that in order to succeed in Survivor, you have to outwit your opponents. I would argue that without his actions in the first season, the game would not be nearly as popular today, and may not have remained on the air for ten years. People don't watch this show to see how nice the players can be to each other and root for them to tell the truth and form lasting relationships. People watch because the game of Survivor allows and encourages players to act in ways that would be deemed unethical in the real world, but which are celebrated within the game. Blindsides and backstabbing are the norm.

If that's not the type of game you enjoy watching, you're definitely entitled to your opinion. But don't try to convince the rest of us that we shouldn't enjoy watching someone who has clearly embraced the necessary strategy to be successful at this game, and has perhaps taken it further than any previous competitor.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I don't think that most people care at all about how CBS promotes and markets the show. As others have said, we are here to be entertained, and Russell is certainly entertaining.

To each his own, but being so cynical,especially regarding a TV show, just seems to be such an energy waster and spoils the fun of sitting on the couch to be entertained...


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