# American TIVO



## av guy (Dec 29, 2006)

Hi all

Could you buy an American Tivo and change the tuner to pal, power issues can be dealt with, Just Wondering!!!!!


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## Ashley (Apr 20, 2002)

Why? The service number on the motherboard would not be recognised by TiVo UK, so no TiVo service.


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

And if you could change the number the slice files are unlikely to be compatible.. and good luck telling a US Tivo your postcode!

The software differences dwarf the hardware differences, given that MyWorld is a compiled binary.... changing that is a lot harder than swapping out a tuner and PSU.


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## OrangeDrink (Feb 10, 2004)

av guy said:


> Hi all
> 
> Could you buy an American Tivo and change the tuner to pal, power issues can be dealt with, Just Wondering!!!!!


Changing the tuner to Pal is not an easy task, some people in Australia/NZ have done it but it involves a fair bit of soldering and know how. I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't be able to use a US TiVo as a dumb HD Recorder in the UK though. Would work best in conjunction with a Sky/Freeview service that wouldn't be plugged into the Tuner. Like the guys say, you probably wouldn't be able to access UK TiVo's service with one though.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

OrangeDrink said:


> I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't be able to use a US TiVo as a dumb HD Recorder in the UK though.


Of course that would only made sense though if you already owned it, to buy one to use as a dumb recorder wouldn't make sense (not that I'm suggesting you thought it would). All the wondrous things that make S2 and S3 TiVo's the great things they are, would not survive the conversion. No compatible EPG data could be obtained.

btw, shouldn't we have a sticky FAQ thread at the top, this has got to be one of the most frequently asked questions. It would be good to have a list of the reasons why it doesn't make sense in such a FAQ.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Do an Advanced Search under Tivo UK for "US Tivo" and the six or so previous threads that have discussed this appear.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

I wonder how much trouble it would be for tivo to enable US tivos to be registered in the UK and supply the UK guide data to them?

Maybe its the support issues with US tivos being NTSC off-the-shelf.

I'd pay for another sub on a no support basis(never use it), just for the guide data. Then maybe someone could make money selling modified US tivos.


We can dream...


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## Rob Nespor Bellis (Feb 17, 2001)

b166er said:


> btw, shouldn't we have a sticky FAQ thread at the top, this has got to be one of the most frequently asked questions. It would be good to have a list of the reasons why it doesn't make sense in such a FAQ.


I assume that was said tongue in cheek? There is the sticky thread at the top of the thread list, it does have a FAQ within it, and this question is no. 1 in that FAQ.

Rgds,

R.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> I wonder how much trouble it would be for tivo to enable US tivos to be registered in the UK and supply the UK guide data to them?


The reason they don't want to do it is the issue with keeping the whole EPG contract with Tribune going and keeping the customer support contract going with Sky going indefinitely if they start adding new customers without there being enough new customers for Tivo S3 to sustain the further contractual commitment.

It can only possibly be done cost effectively in small volumes if they decided to change their method of operating to support non US customers directly from the USA or perhaps some new worldwide call centre in India but the modification, testing and EPG support costs of allowing an official Tivo S3 in the UK are such that it requires a lot more tens of thousands of units of sales than you might expect to start to be profitable.

Basically Tivo S3 is an expensive product and unless it can support Sky HD programming because Sky are forced to play ball by the EU on the CAM issue then Tivo just can't see enough paying customers materialising to make the service profitable in the UK.

Sad but true..........................


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

Rob Nespor Bellis said:


> I assume that was said tongue in cheek? There is the sticky thread at the top of the thread list, it does have a FAQ within it, and this question is no. 1 in that FAQ.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Colour me dumb (again)...



Pete77 said:


> The reason they don't want to do it is the issue with keeping the whole EPG contract with Tribune going


Can you elucidate? What issue? Where have TiVo said this?



Pete77 said:


> the customer support contract going with Sky going indefinitely


I've read elsewhere that this contract is renewed (implied: renegotiated) annually. Obviously it's in Sky's interest to stop TiVo coming to the UK, but what's in it for TiVo? They are *so* successful in the US, that I can't believe they haven't eyed outside of there (i.e. Europe and beyond) with dollar signs in their eyes.



Pete77 said:


> Basically Tivo S3 is an expensive product


Again, elucidate please. With the marketplace of the US, providing Europe with a 'package' would be minimal.

Remember - TiVo make the 'brains'. Others make the hardware.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

What you don't seem to understand is that to initiate a new sales effort with a brand like Tivo takes a certain minimum level of expenditure however many units you plan to shift. Neither Tivo or their manufacturing partners are wiling to risk that when they are up against Sky and now Freeview Playback + Virgin Media.

As to where have Tivo said they want to end the Tribune contract etc, etc. Its just obvious business sense that if you have an old legacy product with declining sales and no new customers that sooner or later somebody in the business is going to want to kill it stone dead once sales income (monthly subs etc) has fallen below a certain level in relation to ongoing costs. I worked for a business with several legacy daily data supply products - the calculation as to when it would no longer be economic to continue supporting the old services was going on all the time.

The only hope I can really see for a new Tivo service in the UK is for Virgin Media to adopt the cable box Tivo product to give them a Unque Selling point over Sky +/HD/AnyTime, BT Vision and Freeview Playback. And although more than half of the UK's households aren't cabled for NTL/Telewest those gaps can now all be plugged by supporting them through a combined Freeview and pay broadband tv based service still under the Virgin Media brand. Although it might take another 18 months to two years for uprating of the broadband network and further LLU rollout to fully support this.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Neither Tivo or their manufacturing partners are wiling to risk that when they are up against Sky and now Freeview Playback + Virgin Media.


Pete - you're looking at the small picture and making absolute statements where no facts exist. Europe and beyond is more than the UK. Working for a $1bn US corporate tends to put these things in perspective. 



> if you have an old legacy product with declining sales


Pure speculation - as I am doing. But if you've got a foothold - even a child size 1 - it makes a difference to a corporation. Tell me how much it costs TiVo/Sky to get the Tribune data per year, and I'll listen to your argument on this point.



> Virgin Media to adopt the cable box Tivo product to give them a Unque Selling point over Sky +/HD/AnyTime, BT Vision and Freeview Playback.


Agreed! Also note that VirginMedia are looking at TiVo as well...

Competition is a good thing.


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## av guy (Dec 29, 2006)

Thanks very much all of you. SORRY I didn't look through the stickys  , new to Tivo and love it, so does the wife!!!! and son.  

Ian


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

ColinYounger said:


> Also note that VirginMedia are looking at TiVo as well...


Is this true?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Is this true?


Not as far as I know up to now.

But it just so happens that Tivo have just come up with their software that can run on any cable box and Virgin is a very image conscious company that wants to be seen to offer something that the competition don't have. Whereas Sky are so greedy and monpolistic that they begrudge letting Tivo have their share of the cake, even though the Tivo software is far better.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Do an Advanced Search under Tivo UK for "US Tivo" and the six or so previous threads that have discussed this appear.


Six? Sixty maybe!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Six? Sixty maybe!


You missed the quote marks around the entire phrase "US Tivo". Not the same as US Tivo which will find those words in any combination within a post.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Whereas Sky are so greedy and monpolistic that they begrudge letting Tivo have their share of the cake, even though the Tivo software is far better.


Well, try "Rupert Murdoch owns a maker of PVR software (NDS) and prefers to keep it in the family rather than pay a 3rd party" which sounds les megalomaniac but is closer to the truth.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You missed the quote marks around the entire phrase "US Tivo". Not the same as US Tivo which will find those words in any combination within a post.


I didn't search. I remembered...


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Is this true?


In other forums that are for NTL\Telewest\Virgin it has been mentioned that Virgin are looking to 'have a go' at the Sky empire - but that's just stating the obvious.

What is being discussed is what Virgin want to do to the TVDrive to make V+ a killer. An insider - knowing my TiVo taint - said that they're looking at the TiVo software, and seeing how it would work on the V+. BUT!! It's speculation as to what will happen.

However, just imagine: FOUR tuners and a TiVo guy. <drool>


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Well, try "Rupert Murdoch owns a maker of PVR software (NDS) and prefers to keep it in the family rather than pay a 3rd party" which sounds les megalomaniac but is closer to the truth.


Originally NDS just did smartcard authorisation systems though. It was the Murdoch's choice to let them get in to developing third rate PVR software rather than do a deal with Tivo.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> However, just imagine: FOUR tuners and a TiVo guy. <drool>


I thought it was only three tuners. Where did the fourth one come from?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Where did the fourth one come from?


My imagination.  Got carried away there for a moment.

But - just imagine... THREE tuners and a TiVo guy! <drool>


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> Originally NDS just did smartcard authorisation systems though. It was the Murdoch's choice to let them get in to developing third rate PVR software rather than do a deal with Tivo.


Sorry, but I have to chip in here to clarify. NDS are first rate group of software developers and are well capable of producing something far superior to the Sky+ user interface we're lumped with. The XTV platform (on which Sky+ is developed) can do so much more than the current software allows and has been developed and used in foreign markets - I've seen it demonstrated in trade shows.

As far as I can see, it was Sky who wanted a noddy user interface so that it wasn't a huge jump for their average customer to move from Sky to Sky+. I believe the XTV platform could support something as good if not superior to our version 1 TiVo, but as Sky seem to be content with the current platform I don't think we'll get much more in the foreseeable future.

As an aside, I'm not sure if TiVo's software could be ported to XTV though. TiVo is linux based - I don't know how much effort it would be to get Linux running on XTV let alone get the TiVo software running on it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

aerialplug said:


> Sorry, but I have to chip in here to clarify. NDS are first rate group of software developers and are well capable of producing something far superior to the Sky+ user interface we're lumped with. The XTV platform (on which Sky+ is developed) can do so much more than the current software allows and has been developed and used in foreign markets - I've seen it demonstrated in trade shows.
> 
> As far as I can see, it was Sky who wanted a noddy user interface so that it wasn't a huge jump for their average customer to move from Sky to Sky+. I believe the XTV platform could support something as good if not superior to our version 1 TiVo, but as Sky seem to be content with the current platform I don't think we'll get much more in the foreseeable future.


Couldn't they have offered a Basic, Standard and Advanced user interface for their PVR platform though and also perhaps have tucked away the options to change to Advanced so that only those who have the appropriate software driving licence are likely to try to make use of them.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

ColinYounger said:


> In other forums that are for NTL\Telewest\Virgin it has been mentioned that Virgin are looking to 'have a go' at the Sky empire - but that's just stating the obvious.
> 
> What is being discussed is what Virgin want to do to the TVDrive to make V+ a killer. An insider - knowing my TiVo taint - said that they're looking at the TiVo software, and seeing how it would work on the V+. BUT!! It's speculation as to what will happen.
> 
> However, just imagine: FOUR tuners and a TiVo guy. <drool>


Link?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> However, just imagine: FOUR tuners and a TiVo guy. <drool>


You would never find time to watch all the stuff you recorded though.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Raisltin - NTLHell is a good place to start, along with good old cableforums. I can't send you a link to a PM converstation, however.


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