# TIVO question really important



## dvobgo92 (Mar 5, 2006)

hey
i was wondering, people say get this TIVO get that TIVO .....and i cant figure out which TIVO to get.

what i want is a TIVO that i can make it work with my coolsat 5000 free-to-air reciever
and a tivo which i can put "'the Zipper"' hack in it.

thanks alot


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## ttodd1 (Nov 6, 2003)

The Zipper is only for DTivos.


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## MannyL (May 2, 2002)

And a DTivio will only work with DirectTV


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## dvobgo92 (Mar 5, 2006)

ok take that out,....... just a reciever for my coolsat


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

you are going to need a series 1 (harder to find) or an older series 2 model tcd14xxx
the others cannot be hacked to allow you to steal dish network.


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## skw (Jan 24, 2006)

Under the rules of this forum, shouldn't this thread (and user) get nuked?


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> you are going to need a series 1 (harder to find) or an older series 2 model tcd14xxx
> the others cannot be hacked to allow you to steal dish network.


I'd just like to point out your ignorance on the subject.

the coolsat, like most free-to-air receivers, are not manufactured to "steal dish network" as you put it.

The people who are stealing, have loaded modified bin files to their receivers in order to "enhance" them. Not unlike most tivo owners...

The man asked a simple question, he'd like to know if tivo has built in IR codes for the coolsat 5000 model. Your presumption as to his intentions (he never once mentioned dish network) are unfounded.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

as it has been addressed many many many many times.
The only service a coolsat can access that a Tivo would have guide data for, therefore need to be used to change channels for is Dish Network.
Otherwise a coolsat can be used on say "channel 3" tivo input and then a manual recording be set up.
You can't USE Tivo's name based recording for example on anything there isn't guide data for.
SO tell me, why would you need your tivo to control your coolsat unless you were receiving Dish Network signals?
Oh and you'll notice the OP didn't defend himself either.


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## Webchump (Jan 1, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> Oh and you'll notice the OP didn't defend himself either.


Probably because its the same person.


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## rbautch (Feb 6, 2004)

Wow, this really was a very important question as the OP suggested. I think from now on I'll title all my posts with the word "important", since it will enhance my trolling ability.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> as it has been addressed many many many many times.
> The only service a coolsat can access that a Tivo would have guide data for, therefore need to be used to change channels for is Dish Network.


If my limited research on the subject is correct, isn't Tivo being used by our friends up north? Again, if i'm not mistaken, the sat provider in Canada is Bell Express Vu. The OP didn't mention what provider he was using nor did he mention his location. To assume that the coolsat is only usable with Dish Network (it isn't) and that the only guide data the Tivo can pull down to be used with a coolsat, belongs to Dish (wrong again, the canadians proved this long ago) displays the rampant ignorance and quick to judge mentality prevalent in your posts.



> Otherwise a coolsat can be used on say "channel 3" tivo input and then a manual recording be set up.
> You can't USE Tivo's name based recording for example on anything there isn't guide data for.


Yep, except for when the user provides his own guide data on his own network. This was the canadian "work around" for quite awhile.



> SO tell me, why would you need your tivo to control your coolsat unless you were receiving Dish Network signals?


I think i've answered this question already. You can receive Bell signals with the coolsat, and since the OP didn't mention where he was, we don't know if he resides in a country that doesn't adhere to U.S law (mexico comes to mind).



> Oh and you'll notice the OP didn't defend himself either.


He probably realized he wouldn't be receiving any help from the likes of you.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

expressvu IS how Dish Network DBA in Canada.
and


> Yep, except for when the user provides his own guide data on his own network. This was the canadian "work around" for quite awhile.


this is stealing service from Tivo.
My argument still stands.
as for the likes of me,
you should note that more than half of my existing posts have been helping others.


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## rbautch (Feb 6, 2004)

anchor said:
 

> ...displays the rampant ignorance and quick to judge mentality prevalent in your posts.


Obviously this is in comparison to your vast library of helpful posts here. Welcome to TCF, jacka$$. You're in the wrong forum.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Webchump said:


> Probably because its the same person.


Nope, i'm just frustrated with the "high and mighty" attitude that's found on here and most other tivo forums.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

rbautch said:


> Obviously this is in comparison to your vast library of helpful posts here. Welcome to TCF, jacka$$. You're in the wrong forum.


I never claimed I was helping anyone. My area of expertise is mostly video related, and I'd be glad to help anyone with the technical side of things.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> this is stealing service from Tivo.
> My argument still stands.


No, it does not, seeing as how your major beef is with people using FTA boxes with their Tivo systems; not with the stealing of Tivo's service.

edit:
As an aside, to anyone that's looking to control their coolsat through the Tivo: It is entirely possible, as someone was kind enough to release a compatible IR codes list file that works with the Coolsat 4000 (interchangeable with the 5000).


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## rbautch (Feb 6, 2004)

anchor said:


> I'd just like to point out your ignorance on the subject.


You were the first person is this thread to start flaming, and the fact that you insulted the single most helpful person in the entire Tivo hacking community is not winning you any friends here. You're the one with the high and mighty attitude. If you last long enough here you'll realize that this forum is not as you describe, and has a "culture" of helpful, tolerant, friendly folks that come here to have fun. My suggestion is to change your login name one more time and start over.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

anchor said:


> No, it does not, seeing as how your major beef is with people using FTA boxes with their Tivo systems; not with the stealing of Tivo's service.
> 
> edit:
> As an aside, to anyone that's looking to control their coolsat through the Tivo: It is entirely possible, as someone was kind enough to release a compatible IR codes list file that works with the Coolsat 4000 (interchangeable with the 5000).


Actually I'm against both.
care to try again?


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

rbautch said:


> You were the first person is this thread to start flaming, and the fact that you insulted the single most helpful person in the entire Tivo hacking community is not winning you any friends here. You're the one with the high and mighty attitude. If you last long enough here you'll realize that this forum is not as you describe, and has a "culture" of helpful, tolerant, friendly folks that come here to have fun. My suggestion is to change your login name one more time and start over.


See, my interest isn't in "lasting long enough", i'm merely trying to point out that Gunnyman is jumping to conclusions.

Understand one thing, i'm not here to make friends.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

then you're REALLY at the wrong website, we're more like a family here than anything else.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> Actually I'm against both.
> care to try again?


Sure, but we're getting off-topic. I agree that stealing service from Tivo is wrong, and I don't condone it. However, we're talking about your beef with people using their coolsat's with their tivo's.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

ok 
lets quit bickering
Explain to me what you would use the tivo for please.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> then you're REALLY at the wrong website, we're more like a family here than anything else.


Ok, but how does this relate to your jumping to conclusions, and overall attitude displayed toward anyone that asks about getting their tivo to work with their coolsat?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

because if there is another reason to have a tivo control a FTA receiver then you would be right, I would be wrong and I would apologize because I learned something.
By the way you should know, I've asked this very question several times and no one has come with an answer.

oops I can't read I thought you were wondering why you should answer my question.
As for how does our being family affect my attiude, a big rule here is NO discussion of theft of service is allowed.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> ok
> lets quit bickering
> Explain to me what you would use the tivo for please.


Sure thing, I have quite a few friends that reside in South America. Their sat provider down there is Sky digital, and as such use their coolsats(and viewsats, pansats, etc) to pick up said signal.

Recently, they've been looking into purchasing a PVR and have decided upon getting a Tivo, mostly due to the relative abundance of old series 1 & older Series 2 tivo's on Ebay.

Since Tivo doesn't provide guide data for their systems, they're prepared to set up their network in order to do so. I see no problem with this, and have decided to help them out with their endeavor. I have nothing to gain from this, I don't even own a Tivo.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

and using a tivo without a subscription, or with other guide data is stealing Tivo service.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> and using a tivo without a subscription, or with other guide data is stealing Tivo service.


You can't steal a service that isn't offered.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

You do understand that A Tivo=Hardware PLUS service right?
Tivo LOSES money on the Hardware and depends on the Subscription for revenue.
Why not just build a Myth TV box and use that?


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> You do understand that A Tivo=Hardware PLUS service right?
> Tivo LOSES money on the Hardware and depends on the Subscription for revenue.
> Why not just build a Myth TV box and use that?


You're absolutely right, Tivo does = Hardware + Service.

However, they're not losing money on the sale, since the service (nor the hardware) is available to them, they're unable to purchase directly from them. The consumer absorbs all the costs (hardware, importing, etc).

I've suggested the Myth TV idea to them, they like the Tivo's compactness and "community support".


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Since by your admission the people you have in mind will be using Tivo with their own guide data (which in the rules of this forums owner and Tivo Inc) constitutes stealing, the only assumption I've made that is in-correct is what a user would be stealing.
This is the reason I and others here as well are unwilling to assist.
So I STILL don't see a LEGITIMATE use for Tivo with coolsat.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> Since by your admission the people you have in mind will be using Tivo with their own guide data (which in the rules of this forums owner and Tivo Inc) constitutes stealing, the only assumption I've made that is in-correct is what a user would be stealing.
> This is the reason I and others here as well are unwilling to assist.
> So I STILL don't see a LEGITIMATE use for Tivo with coolsat.


This is a legitimate use for the tivo. If Tivo inc. were willing to provide worldwide service then you would be correct, however they do not.

I can see where you're coming from, but to assume that using YOUR hardware in a way that is compliant with YOUR country's laws is illegal is absoultely ludicrous.

Your argument should be that since both you and the forum are located in the U.S., it is illegal for YOU to provide them help with their endeavor, and not that they're criminals.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

You are indeed correct about that.
I'll soften up a bit next time. And for the record, while chastising the OP here I DID answer his question.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> You are indeed correct about that.
> I'll soften up a bit next time. And for the record, while chastising the OP here I DID answer his question.


 

That's all I ask. You seem like a good guy, and its a shame we started off on the wrong foot. I'd like to apologize if I came off as condescending, as it was not my intention.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

no problem.
I enjoyed our debate too


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## dvobgo92 (Mar 5, 2006)

thank you every1

( and im not intending to steal dish network) (i live in canada) (my mom watches Bell Express Vu) (she wanted a recorder for the Bell Express Vu, so she could record some series that she was unable to watch) thats why i asked the question in the first place


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

dvobgo92 said:


> thank you every1
> 
> ( and im not intending to steal dish network) (i live in canada) (my mom watches Bell Express Vu) (she wanted a recorder for the Bell Express Vu, so she could record some series that she was unable to watch) thats why i asked the question in the first place


Glad to help!,

Does anyone else think a software update that would allow the Tivo to "learn" unsupported IR codes, in the same fashion as the Phillips Pronto(hardware) or Total Remote(Software), would save everyone involved a lot of trouble?


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

anchor said:


> Glad to help!,
> 
> Does anyone else think a software update that would allow the Tivo to "learn" unsupported IR codes, in the same fashion as the Phillips Pronto(hardware) or Total Remote(Software), would save everyone involved a lot of trouble?


I have a D*Tivo, so it dosen't benifit me at all, the remote is what controls TV onoff, volume, mute, and channels. the box just records the sat. stream.

but I could see that as a good idea for SA's that actually have to coordinate and control other devices to record an outside source.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

dvobgo92 said:


> thank you every1
> 
> ( and im not intending to steal dish network) (i live in canada) (my mom watches Bell Express Vu) (she wanted a recorder for the Bell Express Vu, so she could record some series that she was unable to watch) thats why i asked the question in the first place


Except for theft, what has ExpressVu or Dishnet got to do with Coolsat and TiVo? TiVo readily supports most legitinate Expressvu receivers, since they are simply Excostar receivers?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

anchor said:


> Sure thing, I have quite a few friends that reside in South America. Their sat provider down there is Sky digital, and as such use their coolsats(and viewsats, pansats, etc) to pick up said signal.


I don't think so. It appears they are pirating the service from Sky LA, as Sky LA almost exclusively uses Thomson receivers.

Unless you can prove me wrong.

Lets forget the "they won't sell to me, so pirating the service isn't stealing"argument.



> Recently, they've been looking into purchasing a PVR and have decided upon getting a Tivo, mostly due to the relative abundance of old series 1 & older Series 2 tivo's on Ebay.
> 
> Since Tivo doesn't provide guide data for their systems, they're prepared to set up their network in order to do so. I see no problem with this, and have decided to help them out with their endeavor. I have nothing to gain from this, I don't even own a Tivo.


Look harder for DVRs that are available, or look elsewhere for assitance in your endeavour..

Discussion of making TiVos work elsewhere than their intended markets is pretty well OT here.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

classicsat said:


> I don't think so. It appears they are pirating the service from Sky LA, as Sky LA almost exclusively uses Thomson receivers.
> 
> Unless you can prove me wrong.


How am I supposed to do that? Become a citizen of Mexico, subscribe to their sat service, and verify your statement?

I'm more inclined to take them at their word...



> Lets forget the "they won't sell to me, so pirating the service isn't stealing"argument.


international theft of an intangible service. I'm willing to bet dollars-to-donuts that neither of us are well versed in this aspect of the law...



> Look harder for DVRs that are available, or look elsewhere for assitance in your endeavour..


I never once asked for help... Its not needed. I've already obtained the needed .tcl scripts that would allow the tivo to control most of the FTA units i've been asked to investigate (Coolsat, Pansat, Fortec, and Viewsat). It's amazing what you can do with a Pronto, a couple of remote controls, and Gary's Pronto to Tivo conversion script...



> Discussion of making TiVos work elsewhere than their intended markets is pretty well OT here.





anchor said:


> Your argument should be that since both you and the forum are located in the U.S., it is illegal for YOU to provide them help with their endeavor, and not that they're criminals.


Its funny you should post in this topic, seeing as how when I made the statement of the "high and mighty" attitude found in most Tivo forums; I was actually referring to you and your responses at various other forums...


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

anchor said:


> international theft of an intangible service. I'm willing to bet dollars-to-donuts that neither of us are well versed in this aspect of the law....


Not that I really care but copyright laws are fairly universal even in places like China. just enforced with varing degrees of effectiveness.


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## Jayboy (Feb 5, 2006)

Anchor, stop making this more complicated than it is. You're just wrong, that's all.

Trying to start a fight with Gunny and Rbautch here is liking charging into the Vatican and attacking the Pope. I can't believe Gunny even had the graciousnous to suggest it was a "wrong foot" type of situation. 

Repeat after me: if the Tivo is hacked to be used with an unsupported content provider (i.e. guide), then the Tivo would be used without the payment of a service fee. If a fee is not paid for Tivo service, then Tivo considers that misappropriation. There is no answer to the OP's question that is okay with Tivo.

Repeat after me: I was wrong. I have wrongness swirling about me. The stench of wrong is overpowering.


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## anchor (Apr 14, 2006)

Jayboy said:


> Anchor, stop making this more complicated than it is. You're just wrong, that's all.


See the problem is that it is complicated, very much so. Oh sure, not so much if you reside in the U.S., Canada, or the U.K. What about the rest of the world?



> Trying to start a fight with Gunny and Rbautch here is liking charging into the Vatican and attacking the Pope.


I confronted Gunny, Rbautch took it upon himself to step-in on a conversation that did not concern him.



> I can't believe Gunny even had the graciousnous to suggest it was a "wrong foot" type of situation.


I suggested that. Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point...



> Repeat after me: if the Tivo is hacked to be used with an unsupported content provider (i.e. guide), then the Tivo would be used without the payment of a service fee. If a fee is not paid for Tivo service, then Tivo considers that misappropriation.


How does this apply to an area where Tivo does not supply service, nor guide data? It seems that you're suggesting that people who do not reside in an area where Tivo provides service and guide data, pay royalty fees for the hardware.



> There is no answer to the OP's question that is okay with Tivo.


Not so, I've aleady mentioned that it is entirely possible to do just what he asked, but yes, no answer that would be okay with Tivo.



> Repeat after me: I was wrong. I have wrongness swirling about me. The stench of wrong is overpowering.


I'm not so sure i'm the one who should be saying this...


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

/Rodney King
Can't we all just get along.
As a rule I've decided not to argue with these FTA people. Their level of Zeal for the product rivals that of Tivo owners.
I have no idea about the legality of this situation internationally since I am a US Resident I don't really have a reason to.

However, THIS messageboard is run by a US citizen, operates in the US, and has a policy of not allowing discussion of what would be theft HERE.

Anchor's scenario might be the exception that proves the rule. I stand by by original assertion that there is no legitimate reason to want a Tivo to control an FTA box.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

anchor said:


> How does this apply to an area where Tivo does not supply service, nor guide data? It seems that you're suggesting that people who do not reside in an area where Tivo provides service and guide data, pay royalty fees for the hardware.
> .


If you want to discuss making a TiVo work elswhere, without a TiVo sub, discuss it on boards in/for that region, not here, this board is only for the regions which TiVo oficially services (or at least those that wish to sub or legitimately use S1s), and for legitimately received services..

If you want to discuss or rationailize the theft of the TiVo service or pay satellite services, look eleswhere.


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## TinyT (May 23, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> as it has been addressed many many many many times.
> The only service a coolsat can access that a Tivo would have guide data for, therefore need to be used to change channels for is Dish Network.
> Otherwise a coolsat can be used on say "channel 3" tivo input and then a manual recording be set up.
> You can't USE Tivo's name based recording for example on anything there isn't guide data for.
> ...


Not True!!! I care nothing for Dishnetwork. But HBO-W is HBO-W on any provider. Cable, 4DTV, Bell, Dishnet and DTV. So is G4 Techtv program info.

I have A full size C-Band dish with both C and KU band LNBs. 
I have FTA receivers hooked up to my system so I can watch real free programming.
I receive techtv (G4) for free and 100s of other pay channels 100% free and legal using a combination of FTA receivers and 2 4dtv receivers. I wish that TiVo had a list of channels available for 4dtv and real FTA broadcasts. I know that channels keep changing on FTA but many channels remain fixed to a particular satellite for a long time. Example techtv and RTPi and many other channels have been transmitting free for years. It sucks that the worlds Best pvr TiVo does not allow you to at least create your own channel lineup from a ch database to accommodate real FTA channels. I know HBO is not free on a FTA receiver. However I do get digital HBO channels off my 4DTV for free with the purchase of HBOs analog package. Some of these HBO channels are not offered by any other satellite provider. Many pay channels are wide open and in the clear with a real unmodified FTA receiver and than re brodcated by cable and satellite providers. Go to satcodx com and you will see that many channels you pay for on dish as well as bell and dtv are 100% free to anyone with the correct receiving equipment. The inability to be able to use my TiVo to take advantage of all this free legal TV has made me purchase a Windows MCE 2005 media center as its able to learn IR commands from my Pansat receiver. MCE is no TiVo and I would give it up in a heart beat if it worked with my 4dtv and FTA box. Believe me there are many good reasons for FTA IR codes to be included in TiVo. New FTA over the air HDTV boxes IR codes also should be added to the new HD TiVo. FTA is not only via satellite. I bought a TiVo because its the best PVR ever made EVER!!! I could not be bothered with hacked FTA as its unreliable. I get all the channels I want for free legally. I just wish TiVo saw that not everyone has Theft on their minds with FTA.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

TinyT said:


> Not True!!! I care nothing for Dishnetwork. But HBO-W is HBO-W on any provider. Cable, 4DTV, Bell, Dishnet and DTV. So is G4 Techtv program info.


The point is, Tivo doesn't have guide data for any of that. So you won't get a Tivo working with them. The only thing a Tivo can work with on an FTA receiver -- in the US -- is Dish Network, which would be theft of service. Soooooo...


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## Gingerthemook (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm a Canadian Tivo subscriber with 8 months left on my TIVO contract.
New house has a satelilte dish and Bell Express Vu technician said they don't install TIVO.

Is there any way to hook Tivo dual tuner up to a Satelite signal.
Looking for wiring diagrams. Tuner must be set to channel 75 not 2 or 3.

Help...I am not trying to steal service I have paid for both Satelite HD subscription and Tivo annual subscription.

CJ


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