# 802.11g Adapters Added to Compatible Adapters List



## TiVoBill

We would like to announce that the compatible adapters page at www.tivo.com/adapters/ has been updated to include two 802.11g wireless network adapters. Support for these adapters is included in the 7.1x software release. If your Series2 box has not received software version 7.1 yet, you can request the download at www.tivo.com/priority/. Requests are normally processed within 3 business days (often sooner).

If you do not already have a wireless adapter, the two 802.11g adapters that we are recommending are:

- D-Link DWL-G120 version B2
- Netgear WG111

These adapters can be purchased at many local or online retailers. The DWL-G120 is also available at the TiVo Store.

*Important Notes*

- These new adapters work only with newer Series2 boxes that TiVo service numbers that start with 230, 240, 264, 540, 590.

- The speed of these adapters is comparable with the 802.11b adapters on our list, so we do not recommend changing from an 802.11b adapter to an 802.11g adapter at this time. We added support for these 802.11g adapters because they are more widely available that then 802.11b adapters on our list. Also, the 7.1 software will recognize additional 802.11g adapters not listed above, but we do not recommend using those adapters at this time since they have not been tested and may not perform as well as the ones that we recommend in daily connections and/or network transfers. 

- 802.11g adapters should be used only if you have a home network with a router. They will not work for a "Peer to Peer" connection between two TiVo boxes or a TiVo box and a PC. You will have to stick with 802.11b adapters if you want to do that.


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## GroundrushX

So does this mean that USB 2.0 has not been enabled? Why is it that a Linksys USB200M will perform so well on USB 1.1, but a G adapter won't speed things up just enough to allow near-realtime transfers? All I'm looking for is the speed I used to get when I was able to have a wired network. My new setup requires 1 Tivo to be wireless. I know I could do the wireless bridge thing but that is kinda pricey.


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## TiVoBill

GroundrushX said:


> So does this mean that USB 2.0 has not been enabled? Why is it that a Linksys USB200M will perform so well on USB 1.1, but a G adapter won't speed things up just enough to allow near-realtime transfers? All I'm looking for is the speed I used to get when I was able to have a wired network. My new setup requires 1 Tivo to be wireless. I know I could do the wireless bridge thing but that is kinda pricey.


USB 2.0 is enabled in 7.1 for the platforms that support it (all Series2 boxes except for the ones that have service numbers starting with "1"). There are other hardware issues on the box that limit transfer speeds over a wireless connection, so we do not expect the 802.11g adapters to be considerably faster than the 802.11b ones at this time. Many customers have reported much faster speeds using USB 2.0 wired adapters however or wired-to-wireless bridges as you mentioned.


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## GroundrushX

Maybe I'll just take the D-Link I'm getting from Tivo rewards to best buy and try to return it towards a G bridge. I miss my fast transfers!


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## jmace57

Thanks Bill - I was just looking at some of the deals on "g" wireless. Good timing of the announcement.

Keep up the good work guys.

Jim


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## GroundrushX

Yeah thanks Bill for the announcement. Not quite the "Get a G adapter and get blazing 54 Mbps tranfers" announcement I was dreaming of, but thanks nonetheless.


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## davezatz

TiVoBill said:


> We would like to announce that the compatible adapters page at www.tivo.com/adapters/ has been updated to include two 802.11g wireless network adapters. Support for these adapters is included in the 7.1x software release.


Does support extend to WPA encryption?


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## TiVoBill

davezatz said:


> Does support extend to WPA encryption?


No changes have been made to the wireless networking screens in 7.1. WEP encryption is still the only supported encryption method at this time.


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## Boston Mangler

TiVoBill said:


> If your Series2 box has not received software version 7.1 yet, you can request the download at www.tivo.com/priority/. Requests are normally processed within 3 business days (often sooner).


Huh? Mine took almost 3 WEEKS


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## rlcarr

So, are 802.11g adapters not enabled on 140xxxxxx boxes (i.e. they won't work) or are they just not officially supported (i.e. TiVo will tell you "too bad" if one doesn't work)?

And yes, it's true that even a 802.11b at _theoretical_ max can outrun USB1.1, I (like many) don't get near theoretical max due to signal strength, encryption, etc. So while 802.11g won't be massively faster, it'll still be faster.

Plus, it would be nice to have my whole WLAN be "pure"-g.


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## Turtleboy

Boston Mangler said:


> Huh? Mine took almost 3 WEEKS


Right. It takes about 3 days _now_ because the glut of the list has been already taken care of.

When everyone was complaining about the list, it was said many times that during a roll out, the exponentially increase the speed of the rollout and the number of people who get it.


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## ohbrian

Anyone looking to buy the D-Link adpaters I found them at Fry's yesterday for $49.99 and on top of that there is a $20 rebate.


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## OrangeDaisy

Any chance the LinkSys WUSB11 v 4.0 will ever be supported? I bought it without understanding that TiVo was telling me to use a non-current version of the adapter. I was able to find a v. 2.8 on eBay, and I'm wondering if I should just sell the 4.0 or hang onto it until TiVo supports it?


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## AaronWalker

TiVoBill said:


> No changes have been made to the wireless networking screens in 7.1. WEP encryption is still the only supported encryption method at this time.


This sounds about as fully baked as the TiVoToGo rollout.

Any idea when (or if) WPA will be supported?


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## CharlesH

rlcarr said:


> And yes, it's true that even a 802.11b at _theoretical_ max can outrun USB1.1, I (like many) don't get near theoretical max due to signal strength, encryption, etc. So while 802.11g won't be massively faster, it'll still be faster.


I thought that USB1.1 was 12Mbs (and this rate was achieved in practice), and 802.11b was 11Mbs (but the effective rate was more like 5-6Mbs), so 11g would effectively double the throughput to 12Mbs. I got the D-link adapter, and it seems to be somewhat faster than the WUSB11 (MRV slightly faster than real time at HIGH quality), but not the doubling that people who use the bridge technique get. It was kind of disconcerting when plugging in the D-Link and the TiVo spontaneously reboots! Or when it went from "Almost there" back to the initial boot screen once. The D-link driver seems to do evil things to the Linux system when installing itself. And yes, TiVoBill warned us that the 11g adapters would not do as well as the bridge technique. The 11g drivers they are using must be REAL dogs compared to the drivers for the wired adapters.


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## TiVoBill

OrangeDaisy said:


> Any chance the LinkSys WUSB11 v 4.0 will ever be supported? I bought it without understanding that TiVo was telling me to use a non-current version of the adapter. I was able to find a v. 2.8 on eBay, and I'm wondering if I should just sell the 4.0 or hang onto it until TiVo supports it?


My understanding is that the Linksys WUSB11 4.0 uses a chipset that we do not have support for (there are likely no Linux drivers for it). We do have releases a few times a year to support additional adapters, but it is unlikely that we will be adding support for that particular adapter.


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## TiVoBill

AaronWalker said:


> Any idea when (or if) WPA will be supported?


I am not aware of any plans to add support for WPA encryption at this time.


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## TiVoBill

CharlesH said:


> I thought that USB1.1 was 12Mbs (and this rate was achieved in practice), and 802.11b was 11Mbs (but the effective rate was more like 5-6Mbs), so 11g would effectively double the throughput to 12Mbs. I got the D-link adapter, and it seems to be somewhat faster than the WUSB11 (MRV slightly faster than real time at HIGH quality), but not the doubling that people who use the bridge approach get. It was kind of disconcerting when plugging in the D-Link and the TiVo spontaneously reboots! Or when it went from "Almost there" back to the initial boot screen once. The D-link driver seems to do evil things to the Linux system when installing itself.


Your performance may vary, but our tests did not find significant difference in the transfer speeds achieved with 802.11b and 802.11g adapters in the current software release. Some customers have reported slightly increased Multi-Room Viewing transfer performance. The reboot is actually a known issue. It happens if you remove an adapter and plug a new one in too quickly. We suggest waiting 30 seconds after unplugging an adapter before plugging in the new one.


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## CharlesH

TiVoBill said:


> Your performance may vary, but our tests did not find significant difference in the transfer speeds achieved with 802.11b and 802.11g adapters in the current software release.


Just wondering if this lack of speed increase is considered a "bug" which is being worked on for a future update, or is the 11g support solely to address the decreasing availability of the "old" 11b adapters. Unlike the Tivo2Go transfer rate problem, the MRV wired vs. wireless transfer rate issue seems to be in the network code somewhere (drivers and such).


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## TiVoBill

CharlesH said:


> Just wondering if this lack of speed increase is considered a "bug" which is being worked on for a future update, or is the 11g support solely to address the decreasing availability of the "old" 11b adapters. Unlike the Tivo2Go transfer rate problem, the MRV wired vs. wireless transfer rate issue seems to be in the network code somewhere (drivers and such).


We are exploring ways of improving 802.11g transfer performance in the future.


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## briguymaine

I'm so torn, I just sent in my rebate for a dlink usb1 adapter. I was waiting but the postmark date was coming up so I sent it. Damn. It was only a ten dollar rebate, double damn...


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## jbfstplk

I have a D-Link 802.11G wireless router and first tried the D-Link G USB adapter with the Tivo. When I learned that it was not supported, I bought the D-Link B adapter, which works perfectly. Once the TiVo sustem was upgraded to the version 7, I was able to copy shows to my Windows computer. But a half-hour show took just about a half-hour to copy -- so I am wondering if I should re-connect the G adapter. I guess it won't do any harm.

Since I can view the program on the computer and can also burn Movies there using Nero, I'm wondering whether I must buy the new Sonic software to burn the MPEG2 files. I suppose this is a question for Nero, but I bet you guys know the answers.


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## dshinnick

I have an older S2, a 140x box, and the Netgear WG111 did work; however, with a Linksys USB "B" adapter I was getting around 500KB/sec transfer rate. When I swapped in the Netgear "G" adapter, it dropped to about 1/2 of that! I'm back to Linksys, the Netgear goes back to the store.

Dave S.


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## ohbrian

I installed 2 D-Link G adapters last night and I agree with Bill. Looks like zero increase in transfer speeds to me.


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## e-treesh

e-treesh said:


> Sure, I want more from TiVo too:
> 3) USB 2
> 2) Wireless G
> 1) Stand alone High Def.
> 
> But steering customers away from TiVo is not the way to get more.
> If you'd rather not have TiVo at all your going about it the right way.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000100030115/


Two out of three. Not bad.

*Thanks TiVo*


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## tivarino

CharlesH said:


> Just wondering if this lack of speed increase is considered a "bug" which is being worked on for a future update, or is the 11g support solely to address the decreasing availability of the "old" 11b adapters. Unlike the Tivo2Go transfer rate problem, the MRV wired vs. wireless transfer rate issue seems to be in the network code somewhere (drivers and such).


More important, I think, for you G wireless users is the fact that using both G and B on your network will slow the whole network down to B speeds. So, now that G is supported by TIVO, those who use ALL G SHOULD see a significant speed increase FOR THE OTHER G devices on the system even if TIVO isn't any faster...


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## rlcarr

Sorry to ask again, but it was never addressed.

Will 802.11g adapters not work at all with the 140xxxxx Series 2 machines, or are they merely officially unsupported?


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## TiVoBill

rlcarr said:


> Sorry to ask again, but it was never addressed.
> 
> Will 802.11g adapters not work at all with the 140xxxxx Series 2 machines, or are they merely officially unsupported?


I'm double-checking, but I'm pretty sure they won't work at all. None of the recent adapters that have been added over the last year are compatible with Series2 Rev1 (the ones that start with '1") due to some hardware differences on that box. I will let you know what I find out.


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## rlcarr

Darn.

Well, I do appreciate you checking and am getting ready for the bad news. 1/2


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## dshinnick

dshinnick said:


> I have an older S2, a 140x box, and the Netgear WG111 DID work; however, with a Linksys USB "B" adapter I was getting around 500KB/sec transfer rate. When I swapped in the Netgear "G" adapter, it dropped to about 1/2 of that! I'm back to Linksys, the Netgear goes back to the store.
> 
> Dave S.


To quote myself........


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## BrianEWilliams

tivarino said:


> More important, I think, for you G wireless users is the fact that using both G and B on your network will slow the whole network down to B speeds.


I've seen this slowdown mentioned before, so I did a test. I have a laptop with G, and my TiVo uses B. I watched my laptop's connection dialog box as I connected the TiVo to the service. The laptop kept reporting 54 Mbs, so I am not convinced. Is there some documentation on this effect?


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## rlcarr

It depends on the access points you have. Some work fine in mixed modes, others slow everything down to B speeds.


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## rainwater

tivarino said:


> More important, I think, for you G wireless users is the fact that using both G and B on your network will slow the whole network down to B speeds.


That will only happen if you have an old G router or a crappy router. Any decent router you can buy these days will not slow the network down to B speeds in mixed mode. If it does, you should check for a firmware upgrade for your router.


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## filbay

Anyone wants to buy a Dlink DWL-G120... $20 after rebate from Bestbuy.


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## AGoss

well, the DWL-G120 that I have will not work for me. I have powered off the unit, unpluged the wireless adapter currently attached, waited 30 seconds, plugged in the DWL-G120, waited a few more seconds, plugged the power back in. 

I never get any lights on the DWL-G120 even though I can plug it into any of the other PCs in my house and the lights come on immediately. So, I am not sure exactly if there is a certain version of the DWL-G120 that is support but the one I have isn't working.  

Anyone have any suggestions?

Andy


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## DominicWu

Would this apply to the DirecTivo's?


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## BUDYL

Purchased a DWL-G120 at BB once I saw this added to the Tivo tested list.
It said v B1 on the box. I have a Toshiba SD-h400. Netgear WGR614v4 router.
Was using a MS MN-510 Usb adapter (11b).
At first, connected the G120 to my SD-h400 and it worked great. 100% signal, music and photos worked thru desktop etc. Seemed OK. But when I tried Tivo 2 Go, it timed out trying to contact my Tivo. Well, then I go to my Tivo and find it now
says no signal. Reboot tivo. OK, signal is back. Try T2Go again, no PVRs found. Signal gone again from Tivo. Put my old USB adapter back, everything works great again. I have a laptop connected in 11g to the router all the time. So, its not a router problem. 
Took the DWL-G120 back to BB. I'll wait for the next round of tested USB adapters.


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## dconner

Yeah, I've got the exact same situation with my DWL-G120. Has anybody actually succeeded with one yet?


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## TiVoBill

AGoss said:


> well, the DWL-G120 that I have will not work for me. I have powered off the unit, unpluged the wireless adapter currently attached, waited 30 seconds, plugged in the DWL-G120, waited a few more seconds, plugged the power back in.
> 
> I never get any lights on the DWL-G120 even though I can plug it into any of the other PCs in my house and the lights come on immediately. So, I am not sure exactly if there is a certain version of the DWL-G120 that is support but the one I have isn't working.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> Andy


Can you check for me what software version you have on your TiVo (on the System Info screen)? If it is 7.1x, please send me a PM with your TiVo Service Number and whether it says "B1" or "B2" on the bottom of the adapter so that and I can follow up with you?


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## TiVoBill

DominicWu said:


> Would this apply to the DirecTivo's?


DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo do not support networking at this time.


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## TiVoBill

dconner said:


> Yeah, I've got the exact same situation with my DWL-G120. Has anybody actually succeeded with one yet?


I've been using a DWL-G120 on one of my boxes for awhile. Is the one that you have a "B1" or "B2" version? What symtoms are you seeeing?


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## dconner

TiVoBill said:


> I've been using a DWL-G120 on one of my boxes for awhile. Is the one that you have a "B1" or "B2" version? What symtoms are you seeeing?


It's a "B1", and my symptoms are pretty much identical to those described by Budyl.

Basically, when I boot up the TiVo, everything seems to be working great. I could start transferring something with the TiVo desktop, and I had 100% connection showing, and I could play music/look at pictures from my TiVo.

After about 5-10 minutes, though, everything craps out, and TiVo can't see the computer, and TiVo desktop can't see the TiVo unit.

In addition, response time when trying to do something with the TiVo (menus, playback options, etc.) gets progressively slower and slower over time, eventually being almost totally non-responsive. I literally had a 90 second wait for a "30-second skip" command to register, for example.

I think after a while (something like 4-8 hours), the failure becomes catastrophic and the TiVo reboots itself.


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## DarylAZ

Boston Mangler said:


> Huh? Mine took almost 3 WEEKS


Only 3? You lucky son of a.......  I ended up calling TiVo to ask when the heck I'd get it. They said it would be pushed out to everyone by the end of MARCH.


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## ptenthus

I'm seeing almost the same set of symptoms on our 240 w/ 7.1a SW.

Reboot Tivo with DWL-G120 B1 plugged in and I get lights and connectivity for some time. After a while - last time was about 20 minutes - and the signal strength goes to 'none' and the DHCP configured IP address goes away (configuring static IP does nothing - which makes sense if the signal has actually dropped to nothing).

Also getting nowhere even when it is showing IP (and is pingable) from my Mac (iBook, OS X version 10.3.8, Tivo Desktop 1.9.1)...never seems to want to see my Mac - even though JavaHMO does work (as long as the Tivo shows signal on the wireless card.

I also see the slow-down over time...pulling the plug on the G120 almost immediately (within a minute) brought things back to normal. Plugged the card back in a while (several minutes) later - and the lights never came back on. Unplugged it again a few minutes later...boom...immediate reboot.


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## TiVoBill

Anybody happen to have to have the DLink DWL-G120 "B2" adapter working (or not)? Our understanding is that the chipsets are different in the B1 and B2 versions of the adapter and so far all the issues reported seem to be with the "B1" version of the adapter.

We are working to clarify the issue. Also, for those of you who have either the "B1" or B2" versions, is the version noted on the packaging itself?


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## lance2001

TiVoBill said:


> Anybody happen to have to have the DLink DWL-G120 "B2" adapter working (or not)? Our understanding is that the chipsets are different in the B1 and B2 versions of the adapter and so far all the issues reported seem to be with the "B1" version of the adapter.
> 
> We are working to clarify the issue. Also, for those of you who have either the "B1" or B2" versions, is the version noted on the packaging itself?


TiVoBill, I have the B1 and experienced similar symptoms as ptenthus but the "B1" is indeed on the packaging --> underneath the Model No. & MAC ID on the back it says "H/W Ver.:B1 F/W Ver.:2.4.3.4. After a couple unintentional reboots, the adapter started working. The signal strength swings from 95% to 20% and sometimes none. The Linksys adapter I used before in the exact same location maintained an 80% signal strength.


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## michaelkpate

Is it only the WG111 that is supported? I have a WGT624 Router and would prefer to get a WG111T.


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## danguilm

TiVoBill said:


> DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo do not support networking at this time.


Is there any way around this? Can we play with the software and install the version that the standalone uses on top of the R10 embedded software? It would be so nice to have it and it makes no sense to me whay Directv hasn't turned on this functionality (or the rest of it for that matter!) Any idea why they take the stand of having such a limited feature set? Is Tivo partly to blame because they want to maintain a differentiated product and still drive standalone sales?


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## davezatz

danguilm said:


> It would be so nice to have it and it makes no sense to me whay Directv hasn't turned on this functionality (or the rest of it for that matter!)


It's a Tivo business decision.


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## HotStuff2

CompUSA is selling this adapter all week for $9.99 after rebate ($59.99 - $10 - $20 - $20 MIRs). That's a good price, but you can do better!

Staples has it for $59.99 - $15 INSTANT REBATE = $44.99 *today*. Get CompUSA to price-match Staples' price and you end up getting paid for this adapter! 

$59.99 (CompUSA price) - $16.51 (110% Price Match to Staples price) = $43.48 - ($10 MIR + $20 MIR + $20 MIR) = -$6.52 + tax on $43.48

For me in FL (7% tax) that'll work out to:

$43.48 + $3.04 tax = $46.52 - $50 MIRs ($10 MIR + $20 MIR + $20 MIR) = *-$3.58* :up:

That means you'll have gotten paid almost $4 to take this adapter. Who can go wrong with that?!?!?


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## Turtleboy

DarylAZ said:


> Only 3? You lucky son of a.......  I ended up calling TiVo to ask when the heck I'd get it. They said it would be pushed out to everyone by the end of MARCH.


Did you sign the priority list? Bill said that if you sign the list you'll get it within 3 business days.


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## Turtleboy

danguilm said:


> Is there any way around this? Can we play with the software and install the version that the standalone uses on top of the R10 embedded software? It would be so nice to have it and it makes no sense to me whay Directv hasn't turned on this functionality (or the rest of it for that matter!) Any idea why they take the stand of having such a limited feature set? Is Tivo partly to blame because they want to maintain a differentiated product and still drive standalone sales?


No. Tivo would love to have DirectTv turn it on. DirectTv doesn't want to.

Whether it's b/c they don't want to tech support it, or b/c they are putting out their own prodcut, I don't know.


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## CrispyCritter

davezatz said:


> It's a Tivo business decision.


No, it's a DirecTV business decision. TiVo has stated publicly that they would like to offer the features, but that the decision lies in the hands of DirecTV.


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## flip123

TiVoBill said:


> Anybody happen to have to have the DLink DWL-G120 "B2" adapter working (or not)? Our understanding is that the chipsets are different in the B1 and B2 versions of the adapter and so far all the issues reported seem to be with the "B1" version of the adapter.
> 
> We are working to clarify the issue. Also, for those of you who have either the "B1" or B2" versions, is the version noted on the packaging itself?


I have two B1 adapters working. They installed without a problem. One on a 240 series, one on a 540 series.

Phil


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## ohbrian

Yeah Bill you can see the B1 or B2 version on a label on the box. I have 2 B1's and Havent had a problem with them yet. I Would like to mention however that many people in other threads are experiencing similar problems with other adapters. I had a linksys 11b adapter that worked fine until the upgrades. The desktop would then sometimes lose both tivos for a while and not resume transfers.


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## TiVoBill

Based on some reports that we have received, we have decided to recommend only the "B2" version of the D-Link DWL-G120 wireless adapter at this time. We are in the process of updating our adapters list to indicate that. We are sorry for any inconvenience we might have caused by not making that distinction earlier.


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## dconner

So, does the Netgear WG111 version 2 work? I'm coming to the conclusion that no adapter I buy will ever work, and no adapter I can find for actual sale will be the correct version that actually does work.

If you're looking at a Netgear WG111 box, is it actually labeled "version 2" somewhere? I'm sure to the point of metaphysical certainty that if it isn't, whatever I buy will be version 1 or version 3 or version Pi, none of which work with TiVo....


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## TiVoBill

dconner said:


> So, does the Netgear WG111 version 2 work? I'm coming to the conclusion that no adapter I buy will ever work, and no adapter I can find for actual sale will be the correct version that actually does work.
> 
> If you're looking at a Netgear WG111 box, is it actually labeled "version 2" somewhere? I'm sure to the point of metaphysical certainty that if it isn't, whatever I buy will be version 1 or version 3 or version Pi, none of which work with TiVo....


My understanding is that the version number is labeled on the box. During the beta, we tested the WG111 version 2 and DWL-G120 version B2 most extensively, which is why we have decided to only recommend those two adapters at this time. Again, sorry for the inconvenience.


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## MSquared

I connected a Netgear WG111 version 2 (made in China) to a 802.11G wi-fi network and my Tivo is on 7.1.a and it works like a champ. It may be the USB2 speed, but I did notice a slight improvement when transferring shows with the Tivo to go option to my desktop vs. the 802.11b Linksys adapter I was using. I swapped a "b" for a "g" with a buddy who has a "b" network and could not locate a Linksys B ver 3.8 or older. I did find a 3.8 version at the local Office Depot here.


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## dconner

Well, I returned the DWL-G120 and got a WG111, plugged it in, and so far so good.

But it doesn't appear to have a clear version number on the box, unless it's referring to the USB version (which maybe it is) in "54 Mbps Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter." The CD inside does say "Version 2.0" on it, though.


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## Electronut

> CompUSA is selling this adapter all week for $9.99 after rebate ($59.99 - $10 - $20 - $20 MIRs). That's a good price, but you can do better!
> 
> Staples has it for $59.99 - $15 INSTANT REBATE = $44.99 *today*. Get CompUSA to price-match Staples' price and you end up getting paid for this adapter!
> 
> $59.99 (CompUSA price) - $16.51 (110% Price Match to Staples price) = $43.48 - ($10 MIR + $20 MIR + $20 MIR) = -$6.52 + tax on $43.48
> 
> For me in FL (7% tax) that'll work out to:
> 
> $43.48 + $3.04 tax = $46.52 - $50 MIRs ($10 MIR + $20 MIR + $20 MIR) = -$3.58
> 
> That means you'll have gotten paid almost $4 to take this adapter. Who can go wrong with that?!?!?


Hotstuff that's great but I went to 2 CompUSA yesterday and none of the WG111's had v.2 on the box. They are all v.1's. Before I track all over Jersey, what is the best way to find v.2?


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## dconner

Where are you guys seeing v.2 or v.1 on the box, exactly? Other than the reference to USB 2.0, I can't see it anywhere.


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## Electronut

> Where are you guys seeing v.2 or v.1 on the box, exactly? Other than the reference to USB 2.0, I can't see it anywhere.


dconner,

Look here .
Right from the Netgear website.

If anyone knows a way to identify the v.2's at CompUSA or Staples without going nuts let me know. I need to pick one of these up for my 540040 and get the deal this week.


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## idlepaw

I bought a Netgear WG111 today at Staples, and it is a v.2. However, there's nothing on the outside box that would indicate this. So, I guess the only way to find out is to just open it up.


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## HotStuff2

Electronut said:


> Hotstuff that's great but I went to 2 CompUSA yesterday and none of the WG111's had v.2 on the box. They are all v.1's. Before I track all over Jersey, what is the best way to find v.2?


They don't say it on the box, but it's on the adapter itself. Worst case scenario, buy it at CompUSA to get the rebates, take it home, and open it. If - by some small chance - the adapter doesn't say v2 on it, go to Circuit City and buy another one. They'll let you open the box and check to make sure. Then, take your v1 back and do a return at Circuit City.


----------



## bnm81002

HotStuff2 said:


> CompUSA is selling this adapter all week for $9.99 after rebate ($59.99 - $10 - $20 - $20 MIRs). That's a good price, but you can do better!
> 
> Staples has it for $59.99 - $15 INSTANT REBATE = $44.99 *today*. Get CompUSA to price-match Staples' price and you end up getting paid for this adapter!
> 
> $59.99 (CompUSA price) - $16.51 (110% Price Match to Staples price) = $43.48 - ($10 MIR + $20 MIR + $20 MIR) = -$6.52 + tax on $43.48
> 
> For me in FL (7% tax) that'll work out to:
> 
> $43.48 + $3.04 tax = $46.52 - $50 MIRs ($10 MIR + $20 MIR + $20 MIR) = *-$3.58* :up:
> 
> That means you'll have gotten paid almost $4 to take this adapter. Who can go wrong with that?!?!?


can I use this adapter with a Linksys wired router (BEFSR81) a Linksys 5 port switch (EZXS55W) to my DTivo unit? do I need something else? thanks


----------



## mumpower

Okay, I have been trying to track the details of this thread since reading about the situation on PVR Blog. I have three series 2 units and a super-g wireless router. If I ditch the 802.11B adapters I have right now and upgrade to one of the two adapters recommended on the TiVo page, will I see an improvement in file transfer speeds? If so, approximately how big a boost will it be? If TiVo plans to improve performance, what is the eta on an implementation that might bring truer 802.11G transfer speeds? In short, would you recommend buying new adapters now or holding off for a while? The early adapter in me is ready to jump in, but some of the concerns here have raised caution flags.


----------



## ZildjianKX

No WPA? I think I'm going to cry


----------



## HotStuff2

ZildjianKX said:


> No WPA? I think I'm going to cry


Yeah, it only supports WEP. However, I found a passable solution so that my "regular" wireless network is in WPA-PSK and my TiVo is in WEP: I use two wireless routers. The Netgear WGR614 802.11g router has been free after rebate (or make money after rebate) several times. So I bought another one (made $20 AR), and have that set as a wireless AP in WEP mode, connected via CAT-5 to my regular WGR614 which runs in WPA-PSK.

It's cludgy, but it works. :up:


----------



## George4073

Electronut said:


> Hotstuff that's great but I went to 2 CompUSA yesterday and none of the WG111's had v.2 on the box. They are all v.1's. Before I track all over Jersey, what is the best way to find v.2?


I bought the Netgear WG111 today from CompUSA in Hauppague, NY and it is a version 2. They don't say the version number on the outside of the box but the sales guy told me if they say made in China they are v2. Otherwise they are v1. When you open the box the adapter does say v2 so you can be sure.

Besides looking for made in China could the TA number possible tell the version. My v2 is 100-10484-01R7. Does someone else with a v2 have this number?

I hooked mine up and everything is working great. My signal strength jumped from 65% to 80%. Haven't tried transferring anything yet.
George


----------



## dconner

Ah, mine does say V2 on the adapter itself, so I think I'm in good shape. Everything's working fine, transferred 3 programs with no trouble. Now I get to give myself new aggravations puzzling through DVD burners, codecs, and all that arcana....


----------



## bnm81002

bnm81002 said:


> can I use this adapter with a Linksys wired router (BEFSR81) a Linksys 5 port switch (EZXS55W) to my DTivo unit? do I need something else? thanks


anybody knows please?


----------



## FishTank1701

The WG111 is a wireless adapter. It can't be directly used with a wired router and a switch. You'll need to add a wireless access point (or a wireless router set to work in WAP mode) to your network in order to use this adapter successfully.


----------



## bnm81002

FishTank1701 said:


> The WG111 is a wireless adapter. It can't be directly used with a wired router and a switch. You'll need to add a wireless access point (or a wireless router set to work in WAP mode) to your network in order to use this adapter successfully.


thank you


----------



## Electronut

> They don't say it on the box, but it's on the adapter itself. Worst case scenario, buy it at CompUSA to get the rebates, take it home, and open it. If - by some small chance - the adapter doesn't say v2 on it, go to Circuit City and buy another one. They'll let you open the box and check to make sure. Then, take your v1 back and do a return at Circuit City.


That's pretty slick Hotstuff. Hmm....The Netgear site said it's suppossed to be distinguished on the box.


> I bought the Netgear WG111 today from CompUSA in Hauppague, NY and it is a version 2. They don't say the version number on the outside of the box but the sales guy told me if they say made in China they are v2. Otherwise they are v1. When you open the box the adapter does say v2 so you can be sure.


That's cool George. Where were the v.1's made? Japan? I am going to try to buy one at CompUSA and see what happens. On all the boxes I saw they said made in China.


----------



## AGoss

I went to CompUSA today to pickup my WG111 adapters and noticed that one of the Netgear WG111 had a Mac address below the serial number. I compared the serial #s to the other WG111 laying around and it did appears to be an older unit, at least based on the serial numbers.  

So, not 100% sure if the mac address on the label really indicated something or not I took a look at the newer 108MBps adapters. The new 108 MBps adapters didn't have the mac address on the label. 

So, if the mac address is on the label then I'd play it safe and put it back. Also, I'd suggest grabbing the highest serial number available just to be sure.


----------



## winink

The TA number for my Netgear WG111v2 is also 100-10484-01R7. But it seemed to slow my TTG transfers to half the speed of the Netgear MA111. Since it's free after the rebates, I think I'll be keeping it just in case TiVo fixes this issue.

If anyone gets it to work faster with their 540x Series2 SA, please let me know. I'm itching to get my network in G only mode.

- Win


----------



## davezatz

winink said:


> I'm itching to get my network in G only mode.


Me too... I'm hoping sometime soon we can get WPA support. I'm not going to bother rebuilding my network until then.


----------



## MikeyB

I understand everyone's frustration/excitement about the 802.11g adapters, but let's think about this logically: Your TiVo is ALWAYS recording something. With a 180MHz processor and 32MB of RAM do you really expect there to be much processing power left to support 54Mbps transfers. Note: This does not take into account the hard drive itself.

I admit it would be nice to be able to keep up with my MRV, but I usually just set the transfers and watch something "local" until the transfer is done. The same goes for TTG transfers, I just set up the transfers early and by the time they're done I'm ready to work on the files.


----------



## topless

Has anyone tried placing a "g" adapter into a "b" network? I have a "b" network and have been considering adding another TiVo to the household. I almost bought one this weekend but couldn't find a "b" adapter. Would a "g" adapter fallback to "b" compatability in a scenario such as this or will I need to do an entire network upgrade?


----------



## George4073

topless said:


> Has anyone tried placing a "g" adapter into a "b" network? I have a "b" network and have been considering adding another TiVo to the household. I almost bought one this weekend but couldn't find a "b" adapter. Would a "g" adapter fallback to "b" compatability in a scenario such as this or will I need to do an entire network upgrade?


Yes, a G adaper will work with a B network. You will just not have the speed and other benefits of a G network.

George


----------



## George4073

Electronut said:


> That's pretty slick Hotstuff. Hmm....The Netgear site said it's suppossed to be distinguished on the box.
> 
> That's cool George. Where were the v.1's made? Japan? I am going to try to buy one at CompUSA and see what happens. On all the boxes I saw they said made in China.


I'm not sure where the v1 was made but just know it wasn't China. Good luck with the install. I wish Netgear would label the version on the outside of the box like Linksys and others do.


----------



## MikeyB

A "g" adapter is backward compatible with a "b" network.


----------



## engineer_mike

ohbrian said:


> I installed 2 D-Link G adapters last night and I agree with Bill. Looks like zero increase in transfer speeds to me.


Is Tivo using USB 2.0? Because USB 1.1 is only capable of 12mbps.


----------



## TomStapes

I just ran out to CompUSA to pick up the WG111, brought it back to the office to open it up, and the only V2 I can find is on the FCC ID. Is this what you folks are seeing as well? 

I would like to get the right one home the first time, because my wife won't let me fiddle with our Tivo for too long...


----------



## MikeyB

The version is printed on the outside of the box of every Linksys product. They're usually pretty hard to find though. It should def. be listed near the model number on the actual product as well.


----------



## George4073

TomStapes said:


> I just ran out to CompUSA to pick up the WG111, brought it back to the office to open it up, and the only V2 I can find is on the FCC ID. Is this what you folks are seeing as well?
> 
> I would like to get the right one home the first time, because my wife won't let me fiddle with our Tivo for too long...


The v2 is on the little label on the adapter. I don't remember if it is by the FCC id. If you don't see it on the adapter take a look at the cd that came in the box. The cd will also say the version on it. Since the WG111 is a netgear product they don't list the version on the box.


----------



## e-treesh

George4073 said:


> The v2 is on the little label on the adapter. I don't remember if it is by the FCC id. If you don't see it on the adapter take a look at the cd that came in the box. The cd will also say the version on it. Since the WG111 is a netgear product they don't list the version on the box.


My Netgear adapter had "4054A-WG111V2" in small print on the bottom of the label on the unit.



engineer_mike said:


> Is Tivo using USB 2.0? Because USB 1.1 is only capable of 12mbps.


TiVo now supports USB 2.0. However, according to previous posts to this thread, there are hardware constraints that keep the data rate so low you will not see any increase going from USB 1.1 to USB 2.0.

On the rebates. CompUSA gave me the credit to match the Staples in-store rebate but then they keep the paper work for one of the mail-in rebates. I just printed the rebate off their web site.


----------



## Logik

engineer_mike said:


> Is Tivo using USB 2.0? Because USB 1.1 is only capable of 12mbps.


I've seen this contention over and over and over in here, but I don't get why. If I recall correctly, people using wired Tivos get (faster than?) real-time Tivo-to-Tivo transfers (what's "MVR" mean, anyway?), making it possible to watch shows as they're being transferred. If that recollection is correct, then USB 1.1's max theoretical speed shouldn't be an issue at all, seeing as how both wired and wireless are both using the same exact USB port.

I'm terribly sad to hear that g doesn't bring an (worthwhile) improvement over b for Tivo-to-Tivo transfers. Shame on me for believing them, but people on these boards were claiming to be getting real-time or faster transfers with g adapters they were able to get working (before the "officially supported" announcement). Wiring them is going to be hell in my home and the gateway trick isn't exactly cost efficient.

So, now I wonder if the noted hardware limitation after USB 2.0 being enabled is a driver bottleneck or really is just a glut of processing power. If the latter, then we could pretty well be SOL. If the former, then there is hope that it could be improved. Here's to hoping.

[edit] Nevermind on "MRV". Just figured it out. "Multi-Room Viewing"


----------



## Electronut

Just picked up my WG111 at CompUSA and sure enough it was a v.2 It's printed right on the side of it where the FCC numbers are.


----------



## boscodegama

I can't believe this crap. After I have mine over-nighted to me you make this statement. Now I have to send it back. Wow, just got my TiVo a week ago and I've been a BIG fan for a couple of years now even without owning one and this is a serious blemish in my book. Sigh.. I didn't even know there was two versions when I ordered it. Thank God it was from Newegg.. No hassle returns.

I'm a stock in owner in TiVo too.. Bleck.. Shape up.. Do research BEFORE you recommend something. Is that too much to ask? A little testing maybe?

[ in reference to DWL-G120 ver. B1 being removed from the recommended list ]


----------



## engineer_mike

e-treesh said:


> TiVo now supports USB 2.0. However, according to previous posts to this thread, there are hardware constraints that keep the data rate so low you will not see any increase going from USB 1.1 to USB 2.0.


Well, not exactly. USB 1.1 and 2.0 are hardware specifications. It's not as simple as just updating the driver. You would need brand new hardware, capable of supporting the higher speeds. You can plug a USB 2.0 device into a USB 1.1 host, it will just default to the slower speed.


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## engineer_mike

Logik said:


> I've seen this contention over and over and over in here, but I don't get why.


USB 1.1 isn't fast enough to support 802.11G's full speed. In fact, it can barely support B.

wireless B = 11 mbps
wireless G = 54 mbps

USB 1.1 = 12 mbps
USB 2.0 = 480 mbps... it's the only interface that will allow G to operate at full speed


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## e-treesh

engineer_mike said:


> Well, not exactly. USB 1.1 and 2.0 are hardware specifications. It's not as simple as just updating the driver. You would need brand new hardware, capable of supporting the higher speeds. You can plug a USB 2.0 device into a USB 1.1 host, it will just default to the slower speed.


This was my source for my statment.



TiVoBill said:


> USB 2.0 is enabled in 7.1 for the platforms that support it (all Series2 boxes except for the ones that have service numbers starting with "1"). There are other hardware issues on the box that limit transfer speeds over a wireless connection, so we do not expect the 802.11g adapters to be considerably faster than the 802.11b ones at this time. Many customers have reported much faster speeds using USB 2.0 wired adapters however or wired-to-wireless bridges as you mentioned.


----------



## HotStuff2

802.11g is compatible with previous 802.11b technology. It will simply connect at the 11mb speed that 802.11b is capable of.


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## KrazyG

I am using my dwl-g120 v1 without any noticeable problems. I hope the next TiVo update doesn't somehow disable it from working all together. Sure, I had to reboot a few times in the beginning and the menus on my TiVo are a little slow, but I have not seen reboots happen on their own. I think the slowness comes from just having 7.1a on the TiVo. My show transfers actually complete, which is a big improvement over my Netgear MA111 adapter.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

engineer_mike said:


> Well, not exactly. USB 1.1 and 2.0 are hardware specifications. It's not as simple as just updating the driver. You would need brand new hardware, capable of supporting the higher speeds. You can plug a USB 2.0 device into a USB 1.1 host, it will just default to the slower speed.


all sereis 2 240 and 540 models and the DVD models have USB 2.0 hardware in them. TiVo had been using USB 1.1 spec drivers in 4x and 5x OS and has now released USB 2.0 drivers in 7x OS. As you noted USB 2.0 adapters could be plugged into the TiVo and work (and indeed worked a little better than a USB 1.1 adapter in 4x) . Now with the final piece of the puzzle going to USB 2.0 (the driver) MRV over wire is very fast. aprrently the wireless adapter drivers have other things going on that are casuing TiVo problems on getting to full speed on them.


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## AGoss

ZeoTiVo said:


> all sereis 2 240 and 540 models and the DVD models have USB 2.0 hardware in them. TiVo had been using USB 1.1 spec drivers in 4x and 5x OS and has now released USB 2.0 drivers in 7x OS. As you noted USB 2.0 adapters could be plugged into the TiVo and work (and indeed worked a little better than a USB 1.1 adapter in 4x) . Now with the final piece of the puzzle going to USB 2.0 (the driver) MRV over wire is very fast. aprrently the wireless adapter drivers have other things going on that are casuing TiVo problems on getting to full speed on them.


Ok, we are seeing very fast performance using a wired connection with MRV but what about T2G?

Isn't the bottle neck still the Tivo which has do something to the file before transferring it to the PC? Has any one seen/compared the two methods as it relates to T2G? Is the performance difference so great that I should be working towards a wired connection and just give up on the wireless connection.

It is currently taking 1.5+ hours to transfer a 810 MB file to my PC using a WG111 Ver. 2 adapter.

Andy


----------



## BUDYL

FYI. I get about a 70% signal shown on my Toshiba SD-H400 Tivo and transfer 1 hr show at high quality in about an hour (1.6 gig). Pretty consistent. Using a 11b adapter on a netgear 11g router. I might go out and try a WG111 v2 just to see if there is any improvement either due to improved signal strength or 11g over 11b. I'll post any success/failure.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

AGoss said:


> Ok, we are seeing very fast performance using a wired connection with MRV but what about T2G?
> 
> Isn't the bottle neck still the Tivo which has do something to the file before transferring it to the PC? Has any one seen/compared the two methods as it relates to T2G? Is the performance difference so great that I should be working towards a wired connection and just give up on the wireless connection.
> 
> It is currently taking 1.5+ hours to transfer a 810 MB file to my PC using a WG111 Ver. 2 adapter.
> 
> Andy


yes, TTG is slower because it has to use CPU to process the file before it goes out of the box.

for now the performance on wired is much better than wireless. I can transfer a medium quality 60 minute show (roughly 1.3 gig) in 33 minutes.

1.5+ hours is slow even for wireless, however. You may have an older access point which is just not very preforment. I have seen people report much improved speeds by swapping out this hardware. also if you have interference, which may not show in signal strength, then it is slow as the packets keep needing to be resent after being futzed by the interference.

I am sure TiVo is working on the wireless performance issues, I have no idea how far along they are on figuring out the issue though.

I just never bought into the wireless way as I like big stable pipes(used to be a network admin) adn just bit the bullet and ran wire through my attic, etc..


----------



## err

Thank you TivoBill, 

Your post made me finally purchase Tivo DVR2. 
I called your sales / tech support but none have any ideas about 802.11G & USB 2.0 & WPA. 

After reading your post, I bought the following:

Tivo DVD2 40 hrs from Dell - $179 - rebate
Netgear WG111 from CompUSA - $9.99 after rebate + tax
Linksys USB200M (to initialize Tivo at first & download 7.1) - free after refund to compusa 
(2) maxtor 250 GB Drive - $99 each at compusa. 

Can't wait to get my tivo from Dell. 

Thanks, I hope this will be good


----------



## e-treesh

I hope you are happy with your TiVo from Dell. Personally, I would not buy from anyone but Best Buy. 
I bought my first 14 hour TiVo from Best Buy the first week they hit the shelves for $500. Less than a year later when the phone modem failed I brought it back under Best Buy's four year extended warranty. I exchanged it for a 30 hour unit and because the price had come down so much, they gave me a $100 credit.
The next time I had a problem there had been no significate changes so I just got a new 30 hour unit off the shelf.
Last year when the third unit failed, actually it was just the record LED that failed, I swapped it for a new 80 hour Series 2 unit and received a $50 rebate from TiVo. And since my four years were almost up, I also renewed my extended warranty.
I am hoping this unit will not fail until TiVo comes out with a High Definiton Stand Alone unit. But if it breaks before then I can always upgrade to a TiVo with a built in DVD burner.


----------



## srp2004

Is the D-Link DWL-G120 version B1 supported? I bought this adapter last weekend before the compatable adapters page was updated to indicate hardware version. I haven't installed it yet, so I don't know first hand. Just deciding if I should return it.


----------



## TiVoBill

srp2004 said:


> Is the D-Link DWL-G120 version B1 supported? I bought this adapter last weekend before the compatable adapters page was updated to indicate hardware version. I haven't installed it yet, so I don't know first hand. Just deciding if I should return it.


Some forum users reported problems with that adapter (slowness in interface, rebooting), so we we updated the compatible adapter list. A coupe of other people have said it worked for them, but not sure I would chance it.


----------



## briguymaine

I picked up the Netgear G adapter for $9.99 after rebate and open box discount, I get the best deals at Best Buy! It seems to get 10 - 20% better reception than my old USB 802.11b (I think it is a Linksys?) I haven't tried tranferring with MRV yet but hopefully it will be at least a little faster.

I'm happy so far, after rebates, deals, and selling my old adapter on ebay, this new one is free! Sweet...


----------



## NotSmith46

TiVoBill said:


> Some forum users reported problems with that adapter (slowness in interface, rebooting), so we we updated the compatible adapter list. A coupe of other people have said it worked for them, but not sure I would chance it.


Sheez. After seeing all the fun you folks have been having with different versions of these 802.11g adapters, I foolishly thought that I could avoid some of that pain by buying an adapter from the TiVo store directly. What a dope I am. Today, my express shipped D-Link DWL-G120 "B1" adapter arrived, even though TiVo says to only use the "B2". Guess they're trying to unload all this incompatible stock, and I fell for it. Now I have to call the TiVo Store and arrange to ship it back, and I STILL won't have the right adapter. Off to BestBuy. Leave me a couple, will ya?

Greg


----------



## fredm54

Hi, I just joined and this is my first post! I bought my first Tivo about 3 weeks ago, in fact it was Super Bowl Sunday! I recently setup my Tivo for TivoToGo. Got the 7.1a update, bought a D-Link DWL-G120 (B1 version) My home network was just an 802.11b and I got transfer speeds of about 120-130 kBs using IE6 and downloading the TIVO files. Using the Tivo Desktop a 740 MB file took about 85 minutes!
So I went out today and bought a new router and upgraded everything to 802.11G. Guess what??? I'm getting exactly the same speed!!! 

So, I decided to test something, my kid's computer is uptairs and is about twice as far away as the Tivo is to my router. My kid's pc has a new 802.11g pci card. I shared one of her folders with large cd image files and dragged and dropped a 750 MB file from her computer to my desktop.....that took 7 minutes!!! That's more than a 10 fold increase!!! 

What the heck is going on? If I did my math right , at half the USB 1 rate (6 mbs) that file should take less than 17 minutes. To put it in even better perspective, it's 1/10 the max rate of USB 1.1

Does TIVO need any beta testers? I'll be glad to volunteer to get this fixed!

Oh, I'm going to try to exchange my DWL-G120 B1 for a B2 version as soon as I can, I hope that helps!


----------



## err

The only reason I bought from Dell was because I happen to have $90 coupon that I have been dying to use for 5 months now. Dell is also running the tivo 40 hrs at discounted $79.

So after rebate and tax, I ended up getting the tivo for -$4. Not too bad.





e-treesh said:


> I hope you are happy with your TiVo from Dell. Personally, I would not buy from anyone but Best Buy.
> I bought my first 14 hour TiVo from Best Buy the first week they hit the shelves for $500. Less than a year later when the phone modem failed I brought it back under Best Buy's four year extended warranty. I exchanged it for a 30 hour unit and because the price had come down so much, they gave me a $100 credit.
> The next time I had a problem there had been no significate changes so I just got a new 30 hour unit off the shelf.
> Last year when the third unit failed, actually it was just the record LED that failed, I swapped it for a new 80 hour Series 2 unit and received a $50 rebate from TiVo. And since my four years were almost up, I also renewed my extended warranty.
> I am hoping this unit will not fail until TiVo comes out with a High Definiton Stand Alone unit. But if it breaks before then I can always upgrade to a TiVo with a built in DVD burner.


----------



## slines

Can anyone comment on Tivo's compatibility with a D-Link 624 router? Tivo Support says it won't talk to it and that the reason according to D-Link is that there is an issue of b and g compatibility. What gives?
My adapter is 811.b Microsoft MN-510. Any solutions out there short of buying a new router?


----------



## angel35

michaelkpate said:


> Is it only the WG111 that is supported? I have a WGT624 Router and would prefer to get a WG111T.[/QUOTE
> 
> Deos Wg111t work?? I want to get one BUT??? CCan some one let me know!!


----------



## Scrappy

I was wondering if anybody had any luck using a peer-to-peer connection with the Netgear WG111 adapter. 

I have two series2 units (both have service numbers that start with 240 and have software version 7.1a). I have been using two Linksys WUSB11 adapters with peer-to-peer for months. The new adapters are version 2 but will not connect with each other. When I create the network on DVR 1 I can see it in the list of available networks on DVR 2 but it won't show in now playing once the setup is complete. I don't think the new adapters are broken since I can connect to a neighbors unsecured network and browse the web.


----------



## jhwpbm

slines said:


> Can anyone comment on Tivo's compatibility with a D-Link 624 router? Tivo Support says it won't talk to it and that the reason according to D-Link is that there is an issue of b and g compatibility. What gives?
> My adapter is 811.b Microsoft MN-510. Any solutions out there short of buying a new router?


I have no problem with the D-Link 624 in a mixed "b"/"g" envionment here - two laptops on the "g" side (one a ThinkPad using the internal wireless adapter, one an HP with one of the D-Link "g"'s), TiVo on the "b" with the Linksys USB adapter, all interoperate well.


----------



## CharlesH

TiVoBill said:


> Some forum users reported problems with that adapter (slowness in interface, rebooting), so we we updated the compatible adapter list. A coupe of other people have said it worked for them, but not sure I would chance it.


 You can add me to the list of people for whom the D-Link DWL-G120 (B1 version) bombed. Took multiple reboots to get it to recognize it; disconnecting it resulted in a reboot every time, and finally it stopped working (in mid-transfer) altogether, and nothing I did would get the TiVo (model 240, 7.1a) to recognize it again. I finally gave up on wireless and risked spousal wrath (and got some) by getting a wired USB adapter and running a CAT-5 cable.


----------



## TiVoBill

Scrappy said:


> I was wondering if anybody had any luck using a peer-to-peer connection with the Netgear WG111 adapter.
> 
> I have two series2 units (both have service numbers that start with 240 and have software version 7.1a). I have been using two Linksys WUSB11 adapters with peer-to-peer for months. The new adapters are version 2 but will not connect with each other. When I create the network on DVR 1 I can see it in the list of available networks on DVR 2 but it won't show in now playing once the setup is complete. I don't think the new adapters are broken since I can connect to a neighbors unsecured network and browse the web.


Peer to Peer connections are not supported in the 802.11g drivers that we are currently using. Sorry for not mentioning that earlier. I will update the main post.


----------



## TiVoBill

NotSmith46 said:


> Sheez. After seeing all the fun you folks have been having with different versions of these 802.11g adapters, I foolishly thought that I could avoid some of that pain by buying an adapter from the TiVo store directly. What a dope I am. Today, my express shipped D-Link DWL-G120 "B1" adapter arrived, even though TiVo says to only use the "B2". Guess they're trying to unload all this incompatible stock, and I fell for it. Now I have to call the TiVo Store and arrange to ship it back, and I STILL won't have the right adapter. Off to BestBuy. Leave me a couple, will ya?
> 
> Greg


Sorry for the inconvenience. We didn't discover the incompatibility until this week (the adapters went on sale on the TiVo Store last Thursday). When we discovered the issue, we pulled them off the TiVo Store right away. Over the next day or so, you should receive an e-mail indicating that we will be refunding the entire cost of the adapter you purchased from the TiVo Store (including tax and shipping).


----------



## vincen11

How do I know what version I have of this adapter. B1 B2 etc??

Thanks, Fred


----------



## TiVoBill

vincen11 said:


> How do I know what version I have of this adapter. B1 B2 etc??
> 
> Thanks, Fred


It's printed on the bottom of the adapter, and in most cases on the box.


----------



## winink

*fredm54:* Welcome to the community. I'm a relatively new poster myself, but I've been reading the forums for a while now.

I've read somewhere in another forum that with the newer TiVo SA2 models (540x), the USB hardware is actually cheaper and the CPU of the machine handles this capability. And when you are transferring a file via TiVoToGo, the TiVo CPU is actually encrypting the file while it is being transferred. So with our newer machines, the CPU handles a pretty big burden at the same time, and I believe this is what is killing our transfer speeds.

I noticed the exact same situation with my TiVo on my all-802.11g network. In fact, by downgrading my wireless adapter to 802.11b, I was able to effectively double my TiVoToGo transfer speed. If you're interested, I wrote about my experience with this on another thread I started called "Slower TTG transfers with wireless G." (I'm not allowed to link to it since I don't have 5 posts yet). But you might want to try using a 802.11b adapter, or just hard-wire it to your router/access point.

- Win


----------



## Scrappy

TiVoBill said:


> Peer to Peer connections are not supported in the 802.11g drivers that we are currently using. Sorry for not mentioning that earlier. I will update the main post.


Are there any plans in the future for peer-to-peer support?


----------



## TiVoBill

Scrappy said:


> Are there any plans in the future for peer-to-peer support?


My understanding is that the Linux drivers we are using for 802.11g do not support peer-to-peer connections. I havn't heard of any plans to add that support in the future, but it's always possible.


----------



## filbay

Short story is in my experience B adapter is faster than G adapter.

I have a Series 2 540. when Tivo released the G adapters list, I went to Bestbuy, I grabbed the DWL-G120.

I hooked it up and it didn't connect to my WRT54GS. after trying different settings on router, i finally figured out that the adapter won't connect if my router is set to 'disable SSID broadcast' and 'shared key authentication'.

After changing the router settings, it finally connects, and I started to transfer shows. I was a bit disappointed of the speed. so I said to myself, "oh well, at least I got TTG".

G adapter is took 1 hour and 40 minutes to transfer a 812MB show.

After looking at the other threads here, and trying to find out what transfer speed are they getting.. I decided to get a B adapter. and since I have a linksys router, i decided to get the WUSB11.... only to find out it's next to impossible to get the older versions. Bestbuy, Circuit City, COmpusa, etc. all are selling WUSB11 v4, which are not supported.

Finally, I lucked out, and got a WUSB11 2.8. Hooked it up and started transfering... (Note: the WUSB11 connects fine with SSID broadcast disabled, and shared key authentication)

Wow... the B adapter is actually faster... about 3 times faster. the same 812MB show took 35 mins.

Results:
DWL-G120 B2 = 812MB = 1hour 40 mins = 1.08Mbits/sec
WUSB11 = 812MB = 35 mins = 3.09 Mbits/sec


Tip: If you're looking for B adapters, check Radio Shack(where I got mine) or other small stores. Most people buy from Bestbuy, Circuit City, etc.. so their stock are always replenished, thus new versions always. Small stores stock since they don't sell those items a lot... so their stock tend to last long.


----------



## ohbrian

Why is it that it seems like only Tivo has problems with this version or that version of an adapter? Seems a little ridiculous to me that everyone has to comb through piles of adapters to find a particular version of the same adapter. I have mixed and matched more network pieces in my life than I can remember and it only seems to be tivo that cares. If the adapter will work on a pc or xbox or anything else why won't it work on the friggin Tivo?


----------



## TiVoBill

ohbrian said:


> Why is it that it seems like only Tivo has problems with this version or that version of an adapter? Seems a little ridiculous to me that everyone has to comb through piles of adapters to find a particular version of the same adapter. I have mixed and matched more network pieces in my life than I can remember and it only seems to be tivo that cares. If the adapter will work on a pc or xbox or anything else why won't it work on the friggin Tivo?


The reason it just "works" on a Windows PC is that you get a CD with the drivers -- we don't have the luxury of being able to load drivers from a CD and must add additional drivers through software updates (which we do on a regular basis). 
Linux (the operating system that the TiVo software runs on top of) has limited support of wireless network drivers. This is mainly due to that fact that many adapter companies have not released Linux drivers for their products due to lack of demand. As new adapter chipsets are created and new adapter versions are related, we try to add them as possible but it takes awhile.


----------



## slines

jhwpbm said:


> I have no problem with the D-Link 624 in a mixed "b"/"g" envionment here - two laptops on the "g" side (one a ThinkPad using the internal wireless adapter, one an HP with one of the D-Link "g"'s), TiVo on the "b" with the Linksys USB adapter, all interoperate well.


When I tried my set up the Tivo saw my network and the unit had an IP address and MAC address but when I tried to call up pictures (the simplest thing) it said no server could be found at the address I gave it. Any other possibilities? Is it me or can Tivo2Go be the most frustrating thing given that Tivo works so well?


----------



## TiVoBill

slines said:


> When I tried my set up the Tivo saw my network and the unit had an IP address and MAC address but when I tried to call up pictures (the simplest thing) it said no server could be found at the address I gave it. Any other possibilities? Is it me or can Tivo2Go be the most frustrating thing given that Tivo works so well?


I would suggest starting with this article:

My DVR Cannot Find My Music or Photos Server (Windows)


----------



## hyachts

TivoBill,
Does Tivo have any response to (or experience with) the problem of getting slower transfers with a G adapter. I've, sadly, added myself to that list today. Transfers were a little less than real time with the B adapter. Now they are 2-3X the program length (for the exact same program, so no changes in quality, etc.). I'm getting much better signal quality with the G adapter, too...


----------



## TiVoBill

hyachts said:


> TivoBill,
> Does Tivo have any response to (or experience with) the problem of getting slower transfers with a G adapter. I've, sadly, added myself to that list today. Transfers were a little less than real time with the B adapter. Now they are 2-3X the program length (for the exact same program, so no changes in quality, etc.). I'm getting much better signal quality with the G adapter, too...


In our tests, the two 802.11g adapters that we recommended have about the same transfer speeds at the 802.11b adapters. The 802.11g drives for Linux available at this time are not very "mature" though so you may see individual differences based on your Series2 model and particular 802.11g adapter. We still recommend using 802.11b adatpers when possible.


----------



## hyachts

Thanks for the response, TB. Here's some quick results done in as controlled an environment as I could manage:

Transfers from Tivo with new Netgear WG111v2 adapter (~$20 from BB after rebates):
To my wireless laptop (wireless G, netgear router):
~140 KB/sec while watching live TV
~155-160 KB/sec with live TV paused

To my wired desktop:
~150-155 KB/sec watching
~170 KB/sec paused

Transfers from Tivo with my Linksys WUSB11v3.0:
To laptop:
~255 KB/sec watching
~270-275 KB/sec paused

To desktop:
~250 KB/sec watching
~300-305 KB/sec paused

I used the same 61.7 MB file for each transfer and tried to keep the machines in the same state for each run (i.e. same services running). The signal strength for the G adapter stayed between 90-100% and that for the B adapter was between 70-80%.

Soooo, long story short, I guess I'll just hang on to my G adapter for when Tivo upgrades the drivers, or I need it elsewhere. Wish the wife didn't have such an objection to CAT5 strung across the apartment.


----------



## NotSmith46

TiVoBill said:


> Sorry for the inconvenience. We didn't discover the incompatibility until this week (the adapters went on sale on the TiVo Store last Thursday). When we discovered the issue, we pulled them off the TiVo Store right away. Over the next day or so, you should receive an e-mail indicating that we will be refunding the entire cost of the adapter you purchased from the TiVo Store (including tax and shipping).


That's great news! Thanks Bill!


----------



## BUDYL

I got a Wg111v2 at Compusa and replaced my MN-510 11b adapter on my SD-h400. Previous TTG transfers were about 1.6g /hour (1 hr high quality show in 1 hr). Transfer with WG111 took 95 minutes. Put back the MN-510, and transfers back to the original rate.
Bottom line: Don't expect TTG transfer speed improvement replacing 11b with one of the 2 11g adapters on the list. If there was at least the same transfer rate with the 11g vs 11b adapter, I would keep it to go all 11g on my netgear router. But, slower TTG transfers make the decision easy.


----------



## shanamc

I tried 3 different retailers (Fry's, Best Buy and Compusa) and none of them carried the correct versions of the 802.11 g adapaters that Tivo now supports (D-Link DWL-G120 version B2 and Netgear WG111 version 2). Anyone know where I can get one of these on-line? I ordered the D-Link adapter on-line, but unfortunately what I got was version B1, and the Tivo store is out.

Thanks.


----------



## hyachts

shanamc said:


> I tried 3 different retailers (Fry's, Best Buy and Compusa) and none of them carried the correct versions of the 802.11 g adapaters that Tivo now supports (D-Link DWL-G120 version B2 and Netgear WG111 version 2). Anyone know where I can get one of these on-line? I ordered the D-Link adapter on-line, but unfortunately what I got was version B1, and the Tivo store is out.
> 
> Thanks.


 How were you able to determine that the Netgear adapters they carried weren't v2? I've heard a couple of theories. "Made in China" below the UPC seems to be a good one. I even called Netgear tech support from the store, gave them the serial number of the adapter and the tech told me that it was a v1. I decided to try it anyways, and once I got the box open it turned out to be v2. Incidentally it does say "Made in China" on it.


----------



## Steed

dconner said:


> Where are you guys seeing v.2 or v.1 on the box, exactly? Other than the reference to USB 2.0, I can't see it anywhere.


The v.1's say "Made In Tiwan" and the CD says Version 1. No mention of V1 on the product anywhere. Have to open box to see.


----------



## e-treesh

shanamc said:


> I tried 3 different retailers (Fry's, Best Buy and Compusa) and none of them carried the correct versions of the 802.11 g adapaters that Tivo now supports (D-Link DWL-G120 version B2 and Netgear WG111 version 2). Anyone know where I can get one of these on-line? I ordered the D-Link adapter on-line, but unfortunately what I got was version B1, and the Tivo store is out.
> 
> Thanks.


I shopped Staples and CompUSA last week. Both carried the Netgear WG111 version 2 (Made in China). I bought mine at CompUSA . Both stores had them on sale and they may be sold out.

Hope this helps


----------



## HotStuff2

I just wanted to report: I've been using the Netgear WG111 802.11g adapter since 2/21, and my TiVo Series2 has not rebooted or had any connection problems at all.


----------



## Takufu

I just got my TiVo....got the latest software 7.1....was wonder has anyone used or had problems with the linksys 12 usb adapter....I have linksys wireless in the house.....


----------



## NIIDeep

I've been using the Netgear WG111 (Made in China) for about a couple weeks now. Got it during the CompUSA deal. I was worried about transfer rates myself but having not previously owned a 802.11b adapter I couldn't compare. Based on the numbers provided in this thread, it looks like my speeds are pretty comparable to 802.11b speeds.

A 30 minute high quality .tivo, about 812 MBs, takes me about 40 minutes to transfer. Using the Network monitor I'm on average using 2.5% of 100 Mbps = ~320 KB/s. Using HTTP download, I get an indicated rate of 285 KB/s. Again this is with my 802.11g adapter with a Dell TruMobile 2300 wireless router. I'm actually kinda surprised since I wasn't sure how well my router works. Nevertheless I did get a Linksys router last week and most likely will migrate to that sometime. Signal strength via Tivo info screen is about 80%. Again surprised since I had preconceptions that Netgear wasn't that great.

This is transferring through an apt wall where the router and adapter are approximately in respective locations on either side of the wall. This probably helps.

I can try my laptop sometime and see how that goes.


----------



## NIIDeep

I'll take back what I said... been reading some of the other threads... seems like I'm 2x slower than some people with 802.11b. 

I really hope Tivo resolves this and make true use of 802.11g rates. I was contemplating getting a 802.11b adapter...

I may have to revisit that notion again.... <sigh> so close.. yet so far....


----------



## rog

I'll trade you my 11b adapter for your 11g adapter. Seriously. 

I need to get my wireless network back up to "g only" mode. My laptop -> wireless router connection took a major performance hit just for the TiVo. 

The slow TTG transfers don't bug me a whole lot, but then again, a while ago I got used to running the transfers over night. Granted, I do wish TiVo would optimize the 11g drivers! 

I have a DWL-122... wanna trade?


----------



## lajamy

What is the fastest possible connection that TIVO will handle to a pc for downloading using an ethernet connection ?
If I set up a gigabit switch would it pass data at that speed ?


----------



## boyettdw

I went out and bought a Netgear WG111 adapter a couple of weeks ago and have been having problems with it and was wondering if anyone else has seen this before. 

When I connect the adapter to my Toshiba SDH400 TiVo it constantly drops the connection to the router and reconnects. The router is showing it reconnecting just about every 30 seconds. 

If I move the adapter to my new Humax T800, it seems to work without a problem. 

Both machines have received the 7.1a update. 

Any ideas would be helpful


----------



## stillflat4

TiVoBill said:


> If you do not already have a wireless adapter, the two 802.11g adapters that we are recommending are:
> 
> - D-Link DWL-G120 version B2
> - Netgear WG111 version 2 (made in China)
> 
> These adapters can be purchased at many local or online retailers. The DWL-G120 is also available at the TiVo Store.


Well, so much for that. I ordered the G120 from the rewards site and a few days later I get a message saying, "we did a boo-boo" (yes, they really said boo-boo) and that adapter doesn't work well with Tivo, so instead you can get this B version adapter for the same price! Oh yeah, they included another 1000 free points for the boo-boo (like that's going to be of any benefit -- seems like most of the rewards are incrememted in blocks of 5000).

Feeling kind of taken by Tivo once again, you know? First I had trouble getting my rebates and now they're substituting a B adapter for a G one that I had already ordered?

Hooboy....


----------



## TiVoBill

stillflat4 said:


> Feeling kind of taken by Tivo once again, you know? First I had trouble getting my rebates and now they're substituting a B adapter for a G one that I had already ordered?
> 
> Hooboy....


The 802.11g adapter that was being offered via the TiVo Rewards program was the D-Link DWL-G120 version B1 adapter. After it was made available, there were reports here on the forum that some customers had problems with that version of the adapter, including UI slowness and eventual reboots. For that reason, we pulled the stock of those adapters from both the TiVo Store and the TiVo Rewards program. Since none of the TiVo Rewards orders had been fufilled yet, we sent the e-mail letting the customer know about the issue and offering the extra 1,000 points. We are still looking for locate additional stock of compatible 802.11g adapters in the future. At this time, the 802.11b adapter offered as part of the Rewards program is actually just as fast if you are going to be using it with a TiVo box (see discussion earlier in this thread).


----------



## rog

stillflat4 said:


> Well, so much for that. I ordered the G120 from the rewards site and a few days later I get a message saying, "we did a boo-boo" (yes, they really said boo-boo) and that adapter doesn't work well with Tivo, so instead you can get this B version adapter for the same price! Oh yeah, they included another 1000 free points for the boo-boo (like that's going to be of any benefit -- seems like most of the rewards are incrememted in blocks of 5000).
> 
> Feeling kind of taken by Tivo once again, you know? First I had trouble getting my rebates and now they're substituting a B adapter for a G one that I had already ordered?
> 
> Hooboy....


I don't mean to minimize your problem, as TiVo definitely did screw that one up, but... I think there _may possibly_ be a misunderstanding here.

When they say "you can get this B version adapter", I think they _may_ be referring to the *version B2* revision of the DWL-G120, and not to a different 802.11b adapter.

If am I correct, they mean that they can send you the newest version of the DWL-G120 802.11g adapter.

At one point, they were selling the first revision (version B1) of that adapter on the TiVo store. They quickly realized it had compatibility issues, and removed it from the compatibility list and the store.

Hope that helps.


----------



## rog

TiVoBill said:


> The 802.11g adapter that was being offered via the TiVo Rewards program was the D-Link DWL-G120 version B1 adapter. After it was made available, there were reports here on the forum that some customers had problems with that version of the adapter, including UI slowness and eventual reboots. For that reason, we pulled the stock of those adapters from both the TiVo Store and the TiVo Rewards program. Since none of the TiVo Rewards orders had been fufilled yet, we sent the e-mail letting the customer know about the issue and offering the extra 1,000 points. We are still looking for locate additional stock of compatible 802.11g adapters in the future. At this time, the 802.11b adapter offered as part of the Rewards program is actually just as fast if you are going to be using it with a TiVo box (see discussion earlier in this thread).


TiVoBill, we crossed posts there. I think we mostly said the same thing, except you make it seam like TiVo actually is sending out 802.11b adapters in leui of the DWL-G120 version B1.

I would argue that this isn't a fair trade at all. Yes, it's true that as of right now, 802.11g adapters don't offer a performance increase _for TTG transfers_. However, they improve multi-room viewing (MRV). They also make a difference for anyone who uses their wireless network for something other than TiVo! This is the whole "g only" conversation that has been repeated numerous times.


----------



## Takufu

I've got a linksys router and a linksys usb adapter.....hooked every thing to TiVo and man....TTG works great....only one problem...can't get pictures or music to work....everytime I put in the IP address tivo says can find server.....can anyone help me....driving me nuts.....although I feel lucky to have TTG working......Thanks


----------



## NIIDeep

DOH! I wish I read this sooner. I wasn't aware of the mixed mode vs. g only mode performance issue. So now that you brought it up I would have similar concerns. In any case, I have other uses for my 11g adapter besides Tivo so sorry I won't be able to trade.

Another reason that I can't trade is that I just got myself a linksys WUSB11 v. 3 adapter today. Office Depot had a $20 rebate for it. Now I have a new dilemma. Which do I care more... laptop to PC perf hit or Tivo to PC perf. It actually kinda puts a wrench in my plans of adding my wife's computer to my wireless net..

I'm guessing that the major performance hit in a mixed mode network is file transfers between PC's operating with 11g adapters. Internet would not be impacted much since I don't have anywhere near 11 Mbps or 54 Mbps bandwidth. So the basic question to ask is whether I do alot of file transfers over wireless. The answer is "sometimes". And now do I care about a 50% impact to transfer rate... dunno..

Hmmm... just dawned on me... I'm wondering if I can create two subnets. I have two routers/APs. I can create one for Tivo operating in 802.11b and another running at 802.11g.

Will this work? I'm not an expert here. So if this is a feasible idea, rog perhaps this could resolve your situation.



rog said:


> I'll trade you my 11b adapter for your 11g adapter. Seriously.
> 
> I need to get my wireless network back up to "g only" mode. My laptop -> wireless router connection took a major performance hit just for the TiVo.
> 
> The slow TTG transfers don't bug me a whole lot, but then again, a while ago I got used to running the transfers over night. Granted, I do wish TiVo would optimize the 11g drivers!
> 
> I have a DWL-122... wanna trade?


----------



## TiVoBill

rog said:


> I would argue that this isn't a fair trade at all. Yes, it's true that as of right now, 802.11g adapters don't offer a performance increase _for TTG transfers_. However, they improve multi-room viewing (MRV). They also make a difference for anyone who uses their wireless network for something other than TiVo! This is the whole "g only" conversation that has been repeated numerous times.


There was no "trade." Because we could not complete the orders, we refunded the 5,000 points that had been deducted for people who claimed that Reward and gave them 1,000 extra points for the inconvenience. We did indicate that they could order the 802.11b adapter through the Rewards program if they so desired.


----------



## AGoss

Anyone experiencing the WG111 ver 2 adapter getting really, really, hot? I am thinking it is bad as hot as it is getting.


----------



## NIIDeep

AGoss said:


> Anyone experiencing the WG111 ver 2 adapter getting really, really, hot? I am thinking it is bad as hot as it is getting.


yeah.. mine is pretty warm. But what can we expect? They packed alot of electronics into a small package with no cooling.


----------



## hyachts

NIIDeep said:


> DOH! I wish I read this sooner. I wasn't aware of the mixed mode vs. g only mode performance issue. So now that you brought it up I would have similar concerns. In any case, I have other uses for my 11g adapter besides Tivo so sorry I won't be able to trade.
> 
> Another reason that I can't trade is that I just got myself a linksys WUSB11 v. 3 adapter today. Office Depot had a $20 rebate for it. Now I have a new dilemma. Which do I care more... laptop to PC perf hit or Tivo to PC perf. It actually kinda puts a wrench in my plans of adding my wife's computer to my wireless net..
> 
> I'm guessing that the major performance hit in a mixed mode network is file transfers between PC's operating with 11g adapters. Internet would not be impacted much since I don't have anywhere near 11 Mbps or 54 Mbps bandwidth. So the basic question to ask is whether I do alot of file transfers over wireless. The answer is "sometimes". And now do I care about a 50% impact to transfer rate... dunno..
> 
> Hmmm... just dawned on me... I'm wondering if I can create two subnets. I have two routers/APs. I can create one for Tivo operating in 802.11b and another running at 802.11g.
> 
> Will this work? I'm not an expert here. So if this is a feasible idea, rog perhaps this could resolve your situation.


 Most newer routers can handle b and g traffic at the same time with no degradation of the g performance. This is the case with my Netgear WGR614, for example.


----------



## rog

TiVoBill said:


> There was no "trade." Because we could not complete the orders, we refunded the 5,000 points that had been deducted for people who claimed that Reward and gave them 1,000 extra points for the inconvenience. We did indicate that they could order the 802.11b adapter through the Rewards program if they so desired.


Got it. Thanks for the clarification. From stillflat4's original post, it sounded like a "downgrade" trade was made, and then TiVo gave him 1000 rewards points. He didn't make it clear there was no trade AND you gave him back 5000 + 1000 points. Sounds more than fair to me, now that I understand.


----------



## rog

hyachts said:


> Most newer routers can handle b and g traffic at the same time with no degradation of the g performance. This is the case with my Netgear WGR614, for example.


Well, my WRT54G doesn't seem to offer the same performance. I have an Apple iBook G4 with built in Airport 802.11g wireless. When I attached my 802.11b adapter (DWL-122) to my TiVo, and switched my router to "mixed" mode, I immediately noticed that transfers from the iBook to the wired computer on my LAN were much slower.

Simple file copies now crawl from my iBook to my desktop PC...

When I get home I will post transfer speeds with "mixed" mode and then with "g-only" mode.


----------



## NIIDeep

hyachts said:


> Most newer routers can handle b and g traffic at the same time with no degradation of the g performance. This is the case with my Netgear WGR614, for example.


If the router has dedicated antennas for each type, 11g and 11b, and is designed to independently receive each type separately, then there will be no degredation. However, in "mixed mode" where a router has to "hear" both 11b and 11g traffic at the same time, there will be degredation. With my router, it's especially the case since the Dell TrueMobile 2300 only has ONE antenna. I have a Linksys WRT54GS that I have yet to try out, although I don't believe that because it has two antennas it will mitigate the perf hit when in mixed mode. Maybe but I'm not sure. Two antennas is usually used for "antenna diversity", basically the two antennas is better than one concept.

I expect your Netgear router to take a hit in perf but I believe you must have a 11g and 11b device active and actively transferring at the same time because they will interfere with one another. Only having one device type active at a given time will have minimal perf hit. There's still one but it's not prevalent.

Most of this is an interpretation of a white paper I read on the subject so don't take my word for it.


----------



## NIIDeep

So I tried out my Linksys WUSB11 v. 3 last night. At first I was shocked to be getting very bad signal strength <70% and transfer rate. BUT I had to play around with the positioning of the Linksys and antenna. The antenna doesn't seem to be omni-directional and seems to show better reception with a given orientation of the antenna with respect to the router. 

So after fooling around with the positioning, I got an orientation that gave me about 84-86% signal strength. With this I'm getting about 3-4% BW of 100 Mbps via Windows Network Monitor. The equates to roughly 400-500 KB/s. I can transfer a 812 MB, 30 min, HQ .tivo file in about 30-35 minutes. So with the increased transfer rate it saves me about 5 to 10 minutes per half hour (I'm assuming some linear correlation here). 

With my Netgear WG111 v. 2 I had 80% signal strength. I didn't have choice of orientation since it plugs directly into the USB slot in the back of the TIVO. But the signal strength is comparable and I'll assume it's negligible in this experiement.

In conclusion, there IS or CAN BE a difference in transfer rate between 11b and 11g adapters. From my experiment 11g is about a 33% reduction in performance. I guess this is "comparable" but it's up to the individual to decide.

Next I'll be trying out experiments with whether the manufacture make of router affects performance. If I switching to a Linksys provides me an increase in perf with my Netgear 11g adapter then I'm good to go.

BUT I must insist that the guys at Tivo try really hard to improve the driver for 11g adapters.. 11g is capable of far greater transfer rates than what we currently have.


----------



## mattlyn

Just hooked up the DLink Dwl-G120. Initially it didn't work at all, then I enabled "zero configuration utility" in WinXP and the router saw the access point. The odd thing is, while it was connected to my computer (to load the drivers and test the card) the signal strength was 60-75% ! The darn thing was sitting within an inch of the DLink 624 wireless router.

i brought it downstairs, hookked it up to tivo and started to transfer files from tivo to tivo desktop. It took over 12 hours to transfer 1/2 hour worth of content, and it was still only half done when I went to work this morning.

I didn't check to see if it is version B1 or B2 but I'm guessing it's B2. I think I should have stayed with the Linksys 802.11b AP. That card only took 2hours to upload 1 hour worth of tv show.

Any thoughts, tips or tricks?? Thanks,

Matty B


----------



## filbay

NIIDeep said:


> So after fooling around with the positioning, I got an orientation that gave me about 84-86% signal strength. With this I'm getting about 3-4% BW of 100 Mbps via Windows Network Monitor. The equates to roughly 400-500 Mbps...
> .


Maybe you mean 3 to 4 Mbps. 3-4% of 100Mbps is 3-4 Mbps.
That's about the same transfer speed I get with my WUSB11 v2.8


----------



## filbay

mattlyn said:


> Just hooked up the DLink Dwl-G120. Initially it didn't work at all, then I enabled "zero configuration utility" in WinXP and the router saw the access point. The odd thing is, while it was connected to my computer (to load the drivers and test the card) the signal strength was 60-75% ! The darn thing was sitting within an inch of the DLink 624 wireless router.


That's a known issue with DLink equipments. Different driver version reports different signal strength. For example, I have a DI-624 and a DWL-G650. If I use an older versions of DWL-G650 drivers, I get around 90%+ signal strength... and it's just sitting 2 feet away from the router. Newer version of driver reports 60%+ of signal strength. Same spot, just different driver version... 30%+ difference.

If you want to find out more about it, check the Forums at Broadband Reports website.


----------



## NIIDeep

filbay said:


> Maybe you mean 3 to 4 Mbps. 3-4% of 100Mbps is 3-4 Mbps.
> That's about the same transfer speed I get with my WUSB11 v2.8


Oops! I was typing a bit too fast... I meant 400 to 500 *KB/s* which is close to the 3-4 Mbps rate you mention.

sorry...


----------



## TiVoSteve

I'm currently using a wireless B adapter which according to my TiVo has a signal strength of 55%. My transfer speed is very slow (1 hour per half hour basic). A G adapter should boost signal strength (in theory anyway). Before I go buy one to replace my B, does anyone think this will help my TTG transfer speed? Any thoughts?


----------



## filbay

TiVoSteve said:


> I'm currently using a wireless B adapter which according to my TiVo has a signal strength of 55%. My transfer speed is very slow (1 hour per half hour basic). A G adapter should boost signal strength (in theory anyway). Before I go buy one to replace my B, does anyone think this will help my TTG transfer speed? Any thoughts?


Only way to find out is to try. In my case it's the opposite...As I mentioned in my previous post (somewhere in this thread), Dlink G adapter is actually slower than my B adapter.

Some reports with G adapter transfers improved a little, some reports it's the same, and then some (like me) G is slower.


----------



## NIIDeep

TiVoSteve said:


> I'm currently using a wireless B adapter which according to my TiVo has a signal strength of 55%. My transfer speed is very slow (1 hour per half hour basic). A G adapter should boost signal strength (in theory anyway). Before I go buy one to replace my B, does anyone think this will help my TTG transfer speed? Any thoughts?


TivoSteve,

Based on my experience, the answer is a "yes" with respect to your situation. A 11g adapter will have improved signal strength and this should equate to better transfer rates. BUT.. I'm not sure how much of an improvement you'll get. And this is the funny thing with wireless.. it's a bit unpredictable.

And keep in mind.. alot people here agree that 11b in the end has the faster transfer rates for now.

I actually would recommend that you invest in perhaps a high gain antenna for your router if it allows for it. This will boost your signal strength.


----------



## rog

Ok, I've attempted to quantify my hunches about a mixed 802.11b/g network being slower than a "g-only" wireless network. The results surprised me a bit. First, my setup:

- Linksys WRT54G wireless router 
- Apple iBook G4 with 802.11g Airport card 
- Linux on a Pentium 4 PC, hard-wired 
- TiVo Series II with D-Link DWL-122 802.11b adapter

The iBook was placed on a desk about 4' from the Linksys router. Signal strength 12/15 as listed in Apple's "Internet Connect" utility.

The TiVo (and D-Link adapter) are about 20' from the router. Signal strength 72% as listed on the TiVo's "System Information" screen.

For all tests below, I was using a 100 MB file generated with the "dd" command through Apple's Terminal:



> devi:~ ryan$ dd if=/dev/urandom of=./junkfile.100MB bs=1m count=100
> 100+0 records in
> 100+0 records out
> 104857600 bytes transferred in 26.381359 secs (3974685 bytes/sec)


For the first round of testing, I used secure copy ("scp" - a secure, ssh-based file-copy utility available for OS X, Unix, and Linux) to copy a 100 MB file from the Apple iBook wirelessly to the router and then over wire (100 Mbps CAT5) to the Linux PC.

Test 1: Router in "mixed" mode; TiVo still linked via 11b 


> devi:~ ryan$ scp junkfile.100MB [email protected]:~/
> [email protected]'s password:
> 
> junkfile.100MB 100% 100MB 1.4MB/s 01:09


As you can see, it took 1m9s to copy the 100 MB file. *1.4MB/s*

Now I completely disconnect the 802.11b adapter from the TiVo's USB port, and set my router to "g-only" mode.

Test 2: Router in "g-only" mode; TiVo disconnected from network 


> devi:~ ryan$ scp junkfile.100MB [email protected]:~/
> [email protected]'s password:
> 
> junkfile.100MB 100% 100MB 1.6MB/s 01:00


Well, I saved 9 seconds and got up to *1.6MB/s*

I'm totally surprised that I only saw a .2MB/s (roughly 204.8 KB/s or 1638.4 Kbps) difference. I guess that adds up... to about 9 seconds saved per 100 MB transferred, or a minute and a half for a 1 GB file. But I expected more.

Suspecting overhead in the ssh/scp protocol, I copied the same file to the Linux machine's web directory, and then repeated the tests using http downloads instead of the scp copy. I'll abbreviate my results:

Test 3: Router in "g-only" mode; TiVo disconnected from network 
http download of 100 MB file: *2.61 MB/s*

Test 4: Router in "mixed" mode; TiVo linked via 11b 
http download of 100 MB file: *2.15 MB/s*

*Conclusion:* it IS slower for the rest of the wireless LAN when your TiVo is using a 802.11b adapter and your router is set to "mixed" mode.

In theory, using a 802.11g adapter on the TiVo and setting the router to "g-only" would provide optimal performance. However, based on the poor results from 802.11g adapters on TiVo's, as posted here, it's hardly worth rushing out to buy a new adapter.

Guess I'll be keeping my network in "mixed" mode for now... when/if they optimize the 11g drivers for the TiVo, well... then I'll go out an buy a new adapter.


----------



## NIIDeep

rog,

It's great that you did this experiement and have drawn your own conclusions. I have a couple of thoughts for you...

- Don't treat a wireless connection as if it's like a "wired" one. What I mean here is that wireless performance is dependent on hundreds of variables. Radio frequency can be very impacted by your environment. And when I say environment, I mean EVERYTHING from furniture to your 2.4 GHz cordless to your neighbors wireless network to nearby electronics operating (like microwave) etc. Huge difference from the shielded CAT5 cable which is a very controlled medium. Transfer rates over the wire are pretty predictable and consistent. Thus your wireless performance can vary at different times depending on circumstances. So don't think that your wireless performance is only simply a "mixed mode" vs. "g only" issue. There could be other factors as play here.

- Secondly.. the minimal perf hit you saw in your experiment is probably due to the periodic handshaking that goes on between 11b adapter to AP to make sure they're still associated and connected. No biggie... But what would be interesting to see is how your file transfer times are impacted when you do it while Tivo is say downloading program info at that time... or even better... while you're transferring a .tivo file to your computer. I expect a pretty hefty hit to your PC file transfer to your laptop.

These are just some things to think about really... and not so much anything else.


----------



## davezatz

NIIDeep said:


> BUT.. I'm not sure how much of an improvement you'll get. And this is the funny thing with wireless.. it's a bit unpredictable.


Actually the funny thing in this case is related to Tivo's software, hardware, and/or the wireless drivers, not the wireless connection itself. Ah well, we'll continue beta testing for them.


----------



## NIIDeep

davezatz said:


> Actually the funny thing in this case is related to Tivo's software, hardware, and/or the wireless drivers, not the wireless connection itself. Ah well, we'll continue beta testing for them.


Yeah in terms of the transfer rate issue I agree... but here's an exampled of the "funniness" I'm seeing right now....

Apparently my Linksys 11b adapter is VERY sensitive to the orientation of itself with respect to the router's antenna. When I first installed the adapter I had to move it around to get about 84 to 86% signal strength. Today I fiddled with the router position and MADE IT WORSE!! Now I'm down to 50 to 60% with huge variations. Impact to transfer rate is acceptable, meaning I can still maintain the higher rate but looking at Windows Network Monitor.. I see frequent fluctuations in the % bandwidth with occasional drops down to 0%. My 11g adapter never fluctuated this much and held a consistent trend albeit at a lower transfer rate. Not matter what I've done I can't get back to the 86-88% signal strength.

I may be getting channel interference from neighbors wireless or something. I'll also try my linksys router.

With all the inconsistencies of using the 11b adapter I'm inclined to just return it. I'm not saving much on time and it becomes irreleavent if I'm transferring overnight (going to agree with the person who stated this before). Well I wanted to experiment and figure things out.


----------



## rog

NIIDeep said:


> It's great that you did this experiement and have drawn your own conclusions. I have a couple of thoughts for you...
> 
> Don't treat a wireless connection as if it's like a "wired" one. What I mean here is that wireless performance is dependent on hundreds of variables. Radio frequency can be very impacted by your environment... So don't think that your wireless performance is only simply a "mixed mode" vs. "g only" issue. There could be other factors as play here.


And of course, you're right.

Another big caveat with this experiment is that it really only says how _my_ wireless router performs under "mixed" and "g-only" modes. Other routers could very well perform better or worse in either mode.

However, I would like to add that I fully realized the variable nature of a wireless connection before I conducted the experiment. So I did try and compensate a little, to reduce the chances of transient interference from neighbors (I have no other wireless devices in my house, short of IR remotes... but who knows what the neighbors have) effecting the results; I did this by running each of the four tests 2 times. I didn't post this because my post was already getting terribly windy. But each test result as posted above is actually the average of the two identical tests which were run for each pass. The results were always very close to one another, reiterating the same trends.


----------



## Surfdogg

Bill,

I don't see Series2 boxes that start with 595 listed as compatible with the DWL-G120. I've had no luck finding a 802.1b USB card to go with my new TiVo box. I've got an older box with a Linksys WUSB11 V 2.8 and it works fine. I bought one yesterday that is a Ver 4 and it's a no go. Will the DWL-G120 work with a "595" box? 

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## stillflat4

rog said:


> I don't mean to minimize your problem, as TiVo definitely did screw that one up, but... I think there _may possibly_ be a misunderstanding here. When they say "you can get this B version adapter", I think they _may_ be referring to the *version B2* revision of the DWL-G120, and not to a different 802.11b adapter.


Nope. They're not offering the DWL-G120 at all, and they noted in the e-mail that if I still wanted a wireless USB adapter, I could still get one, but they were only offering an 802.11b now. No more 802.11g's for the time being.

Hmmmm... I think for the mix-up maybe they should've gotten a few 802.11g's that ARE on the certification list (NetGear?) for those of us who ordered them through rewards, don't you think? I love my Tivo, but I'm getting extremely frustrated with their customer service.


----------



## stillflat4

rog said:


> TiVoBill, we crossed posts there. I think we mostly said the same thing, except you make it seam like TiVo actually is sending out 802.11b adapters in leui of the DWL-G120 version B1.
> 
> I would argue that this isn't a fair trade at all. Yes, it's true that as of right now, 802.11g adapters don't offer a performance increase _for TTG transfers_. However, they improve multi-room viewing (MRV). They also make a difference for anyone who uses their wireless network for something other than TiVo! This is the whole "g only" conversation that has been repeated numerous times.


This is exactly my point. It isn't fair at all. If they're going to pull a reward that was offered AFTER I placed the order, I think it's only fair that Tivo bite the bullet on this one and ship a replacement 802.11g adapter for those who did, actually, order it before it was pulled, you know? That's all I'm saying.

The e-mail said if I actually wanted a 802.11g adapter, I could "check on the tivo compatibilty chart for 802.11g adapters that are offered at local retailers."

So basically, what they said was this: "We know you ordered this 802.11g adapter as a reward, but we're not offering it anymore. We do have 802.11b adapters though, and you can order one of those. If you still want an 802.11g adapter, you can buy one yourself."

Pretty crappy I think...


----------



## stillflat4

rog said:


> Well, my WRT54G doesn't seem to offer the same performance. I have an Apple iBook G4 with built in Airport 802.11g wireless. When I attached my 802.11b adapter (DWL-122) to my TiVo, and switched my router to "mixed" mode, I immediately noticed that transfers from the iBook to the wired computer on my LAN were much slower.


I have the same router, and the same issues. Which is why I was so excited when I saw that Tivo WAS offering an 802.11g adapter as part of the rewards program.


----------



## TiVoBill

Surfdogg said:


> Bill,
> 
> I don't see Series2 boxes that start with 595 listed as compatible with the DWL-G120. I've had no luck finding a 802.1b USB card to go with my new TiVo box. I've got an older box with a Linksys WUSB11 V 2.8 and it works fine. I bought one yesterday that is a Ver 4 and it's a no go. Will the DWL-G120 work with a "595" box?
> 
> Any help is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, the DWL-G120 B2 should work with "595" boxes. The complete list is here:

http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv2184.htm


----------



## TiVoBill

stillflat4 said:


> This is exactly my point. It isn't fair at all. If they're going to pull a reward that was offered AFTER I placed the order, I think it's only fair that Tivo bite the bullet on this one and ship a replacement 802.11g adapter for those who did, actually, order it before it was pulled, you know? That's all I'm saying.
> 
> The e-mail said if I actually wanted a 802.11g adapter, I could "check on the tivo compatibilty chart for 802.11g adapters that are offered at local retailers."
> 
> So basically, what they said was this: "We know you ordered this 802.11g adapter as a reward, but we're not offering it anymore. We do have 802.11b adapters though, and you can order one of those. If you still want an 802.11g adapter, you can buy one yourself."
> 
> Pretty crappy I think...


We attempted to secure sufficient stock of another 802.11g adapter and were not able to do so from our suppliers. For that reason, we suggested checking with local retailers since it appears that Netgear and D-Link have shipped their current stock of those adapters to retailers. We are continuing to try to secure additional stock and hope to offer the 802.11g adapter on the TiVo Store and TiVo Rewards websites when it is possible.


----------



## Surfdogg

Bill,

Thanks for your reply to my earlier post. I spent this pass weekend running from CompUSA to Best Buy to Circuit City to Office Max to Staples to....I had the complete list of compatible cards with me.....

I've had no luck finding a card that will work without Verison 7.1 of the TiVo software. My new TiVo has a DVD burner and is not eligible for the 7.1 software download. So I am concerned about trying the DWL-G120 B2 with my new TiVo. 

Are you working to certify more cards that are available? I am likely going to buy a new card and stick it on my old TiVo and move that old card to the new TiVo box......

I am hoping for a better solution. 

Regards,
Thom


----------



## TiVoBill

Surfdogg said:


> Bill,
> 
> Thanks for your reply to my earlier post. I spent this pass weekend running from CompUSA to Best Buy to Circuit City to Office Max to Staples to....I had the complete list of compatible cards with me.....
> 
> I've had no luck finding a card that will work without Verison 7.1 of the TiVo software. My new TiVo has a DVD burner and is not eligible for the 7.1 software download. So I am concerned about trying the DWL-G120 B2 with my new TiVo.
> 
> Are you working to certify more cards that are available? I am likely going to buy a new card and stick it on my old TiVo and move that old card to the new TiVo box......
> 
> I am hoping for a better solution.
> 
> Regards,
> Thom


Sorry, I didn't noticed that it was a DVD burner model. You are correct that the 802.11g adapters will not work with the DVD burner models until the TiVoToGo features are available for that platform (which is scheduled for Summer). We add new adapters to the list as new drivers become available to us and are looking at ways of securing additional stock of adapters in the future. Right now, we have an 802.11b adapter at the TiVo Store which will work with your box if you are not able to find one locally.


----------



## NIIDeep

Alright so my experiments have concluded for now. I just upgraded my Dell True Mobile 2300 to a Linksys WRT54GS. And all I can say iw WOW  !!! My signal strength goes up to 96-100% for 11g adapter. And for 11b it's up to 86-88% consistently without worrying too much or playing around with antenna positioning. I think the dual antennas on the Linksys router helps. I now have a more solid connection giving me better consistency in transfer rates.

Results are nothing unusual.. it's all been mentioned before but I'd like share anyways.

802.11g adapter for a 812MB, HQ, 30 min show will take almost exactly 40 minutes to transfer.

Same show on 802.11b is taking exactly 30 minutes to transfer.

With my True Mobile these durations fluctuated +/- 5-10 minutes, making the two adapters more or less "comparable" to each other. But with the right router, you can minimize the fluctations. This is just to illustrated the "funniness" and the "unpredicatbility" of wireless networking. Guess it helps too to have a Linksys Router operating with a Linksys adapter. 

Now I have to figure out whether saving 10 minutes per half hour is worth keeping the 802.11b adapter, not to mention the "mixed" mode perf hit to my network. 

Anyways.. I'm done.. good night.


----------



## Keety

After going CRAZY trying to find an older version of the Linksys USB11, I found a treasure trove of them: STAPLES.

Three stores in SoCal, and 2.8 was at every single one of them. Whoda thunk it?

And for those of you who are stumped on how to determine what version the Linksys USB11 is (as I was for a whole day), it's at the bottom of the box (the long, thin bottom), at the end of the model information, I think; it's either have "v2.6", "v2.8", "3" or "4" at the end of a tiny string of numbers.


----------



## NIIDeep

Yup... I got mine at Office Depot. I found one v.2.8 at one store and one v3.0 at another store. Went with the latter since it was closer to my house.

They have some old stock for the time being but it's running out.


----------



## maxxl

Well heck i just baught the 802.11g dlink adaptors. shoot office depot had $30 in rebates. That is why baught that. Im just glad i didnt go for the latest extremeg that best buy had for sale this week.
MAX


----------



## maxxl

OK NOW I AM VERY FRUSTRATED TIVO you need to get your act together. First you are selling the DWL-G120 on your site then u pull it now i found out like 5 minutes ago I have to have VB2 . Now that sucks. NOw i gotta couple of hours to run around to all the office depot to find a DWL-G120 VB2 just to get the stupid thing working. IM ready to chuck both the TIVOs I just baught and buy that other DVR that i dont have to subscibe to and I hear is alot easier to transfer files.
MAX


----------



## maxxl

Tivo thankyou for making my life real fun the last 4 weeks. First i baught the D-link Dwl-G120 wireless adapters because you were selling them on the website, at that time u did not specify version B2. Then about a month later I see your note that I have to have version B2 of the above adapter. Now after calling every computer store in Michigan I find out there is no version B2 in michigan. Now what do I do??? I call D-Link sales they would know. Guesse what?? DWL-G120 is not even in the stores yet. oh After countless hours of looking for this stuff ohhhh I am not happy. 
MAXXL 
All they had to do was post in there note on the "recommended wirless adapters" that these adapters are not in stores yet. I wish i could get a free one with all the time I put into looking for this stuff it would have paid for it. I WILL POST WHEN I START SEEING THEM IN THE STORES


----------



## ohbrian

maxxl said:


> OK NOW I AM VERY FRUSTRATED TIVO you need to get your act together. First you are selling the DWL-G120 on your site then u pull it now i found out like 5 minutes ago I have to have VB2 . Now that sucks. NOw i gotta couple of hours to run around to all the office depot to find a DWL-G120 VB2 just to get the stupid thing working. IM ready to chuck both the TIVOs I just baught and buy that other DVR that i dont have to subscibe to and I hear is alot easier to transfer files.
> MAX


I feel your pain. After waiting so long for G support I went and bought the DWL-G120 after they announced it only to find out a short time later they retracted this support and now it's only V2 (which I can't find anyway). They must have a huge QA department. i.e none. I had already cut off the UPC's for rebates so now I'm stuck with two of the *!&%#*& things. Thanks Tivo. Thanks.


----------



## maxxl

Just a thaought but if u got it for $20 after rebate or somewhere around that price. I bet u could sell them on ebay??


----------



## ohbrian

maxxl said:


> Just a thaought but if u got it for $20 after rebate or somewhere around that price. I bet u could sell them on ebay??


Yeah that's the plan. Just might add two tivos to the deal as well.


----------



## maxxl

hey how does the replay tv work???
I might take my tivos back and buy replay tv. I dont care for the season pass or the wish list. i just like the pausing of live tv and all.


----------



## RandallM

Are there any plans to add the Netgear WG111T or WG111U?


----------



## ohbrian

RandallM said:


> Are there any plans to add the Netgear WG111T or WG111U?


Yes. Version .0.x1.B.4.31.8 but only the one made in Taiwan.


----------



## saramj

I just purchased a Linksys WRT54G Wireless G router for use on my laptop. I would like to change all my devices over to wireless G. Does TIVO support this router in wireless G format or do I need to use it in mixed mode to achieve B and G.


----------



## rog

saramj said:


> I just purchased a Linksys WRT54G Wireless G router for use on my laptop. I would like to change all my devices over to wireless G. Does TIVO support this router in wireless G format or do I need to use it in mixed mode to achieve B and G.


Well, it just depends on which adapter you purchase and use with your TiVo. They now support both 11b and 11g devices. Here's the list of supported wireless adapters:

http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv2006.htm

If you use a 11b adapter on your TiVo, then obviously you'll need to set your wireless router to mixed mode.

If you use a 11g adapter on your TiVo, then you can set your router to "g only".

As an aside, with that particular router, you won't actually see much of a performance gain for your network as a whole if you use "g only" mode. See my experiment results which are posted above in this very thread.

Even worse, the TiVo actually seems to have worse transfer speeds (for TiVoToGo transfers) when you're using 11g. 11b has been faster for some. It doesn't make much sense, unless you look into the details which I won't get into again.

Hope that helps.


----------



## maxxl

Im counting down. Should be atleast another week before the b2 version is out in stores. Atleast that is what sales said over at d-link last week.


----------



## saramj

rog said:


> Well, it just depends on which adapter you purchase and use with your TiVo. They now support both 11b and 11g devices. Here's the list of supported wireless adapters:
> 
> If you use a 11b adapter on your TiVo, then obviously you'll need to set your wireless router to mixed mode.
> 
> If you use a 11g adapter on your TiVo, then you can set your router to "g only".
> 
> As an aside, with that particular router, you won't actually see much of a performance gain for your network as a whole if you use "g only" mode. See my experiment results which are posted above in this very thread.
> 
> Even worse, the TiVo actually seems to have worse transfer speeds (for TiVoToGo transfers) when you're using 11g. 11b has been faster for some. It doesn't make much sense, unless you look into the details which I won't get into again.
> 
> Hope that helps.


 So what you are saying (I am really new at all of this) is if I go out and purchase a supported Linksys wireless G USB adapter then I can set the router to G only and be able to download at 54mbs instead of 11mbs???


----------



## YankeeRudi

I don't know how many have tested the D-Link DWL-G120 yet, but I have and have gone back to the DWL-122. The DWL-G120 would cause my Tivo unit to loose about a minute per 1 hour transfer.

See thread for more details:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=224398

Rudi


----------



## rog

saramj said:


> So what you are saying (I am really new at all of this) is if I go out and purchase a supported Linksys wireless G USB adapter then I can set the router to G only and be able to download at 54mbs instead of 11mbs???


Whoa, whoa... hold on. NOT what I said at all.

If you go out and purchase a supported Linksys 11g adapter, assuming you can find the correct version (make sure you pay attention to the revision, as it DOES matter), then yes, you can set your router to "g only" mode.

However, this does NOT mean that TiVoToGo transfers will happen at 54Mb/s. There is a serious bottleneck at the TiVo (nothing you can do anything about), and your transfer speed will actually not be any better than if you were using a 11b adapter.

In fact, some people have reported _slower_ transfers when switching from 11b to 11g on their TiVo. This is due to the Linux drivers being immature for wireless devices. TiVo has to rely on these drivers. They may be able to optimize them at some point in the future.

So, should you go out an buy a 11g USB adapter or a 11b USB adapter? Tough call. I'd read over more of the posts in this thread.

If you demand an answer from me personally, and won't hold me to it, I'd probably go ahead and purchase an 802.11g adapter and hope that TiVo optimizes it for best performance in the future. When you go to the store, take a printed copy of the supported adapter list -- it will be hard to find the correct version amongst everything on the shelves.


----------



## saramj

rog said:


> Whoa, whoa... hold on. NOT what I said at all.
> 
> If you go out and purchase a supported Linksys 11g adapter, assuming you can find the correct version (make sure you pay attention to the revision, as it DOES matter), then yes, you can set your router to "g only" mode.
> 
> However, this does NOT mean that TiVoToGo transfers will happen at 54Mb/s. There is a serious bottleneck at the TiVo (nothing you can do anything about), and your transfer speed will actually not be any better than if you were using a 11b adapter.
> 
> In fact, some people have reported _slower_ transfers when switching from 11b to 11g on their TiVo. This is due to the Linux drivers being immature for wireless devices. TiVo has to rely on these drivers. They may be able to optimize them at some point in the future.
> 
> So, should you go out an buy a 11g USB adapter or a 11b USB adapter? Tough call. I'd read over more of the posts in this thread.
> 
> If you demand an answer from me personally, and won't hold me to it, I'd probably go ahead and purchase an 802.11g adapter and hope that TiVo optimizes it for best performance in the future. When you go to the store, take a printed copy of the supported adapter list -- it will be hard to find the correct version amongst everything on the shelves.


 WOW thanks for the info! I think I am going to stay with the Linksys 11b adapter and run the router in mixed mode, since I know everything works OK. I think that TIVO has to eventually revise their drivers to go to 11G because I think as more people buy TIVO's they are going to want the faster speed as well as it is becoming more difficult to find B adapters. Now even if you look at your local electronics store they now have preN and N that is being sold at download speeds of up to 100mbs. Maybe with the public outcry things might look more promising. Who Knows.


----------



## vinniet

I have done some serious searching on a wireless network card for the Tivo 2. I will my Tivo Series 2 today, I am upgrading from a Series 1. My question is what is the safest card to get to minimize problems. I only have a B network anyway so my choices are MA101 and MA111. I know I have to watch the version of the cards. I have Netgear for everything. 

Are there better cards out there, even other brands that perform better? 

Thanks and sorry for a subject that must be discussed a lot.


----------



## rog

vinniet, you'd get a different answer from every person you asked, most likely. 

I can tell you I've had no problems whatsoever with my 802.11b adapter. It is a D-Link DWL-122.

I constantly have a 75%-80% signal (as shown on the TiVo's network settings screen), and my transfers, albeit slow, are reliable.


----------



## YankeeRudi

vinniet said:


> I have done some serious searching on a wireless network card for the Tivo 2. I will my Tivo Series 2 today, I am upgrading from a Series 1. My question is what is the safest card to get to minimize problems. I only have a B network anyway so my choices are MA101 and MA111. I know I have to watch the version of the cards. I have Netgear for everything.
> 
> Are there better cards out there, even other brands that perform better?
> 
> Thanks and sorry for a subject that must be discussed a lot.


I have to agree with rog, I tried the D-Link DWL-122 with an 11b (D-Link DI-164+) and an 11g (D-Link DI-624) wireless router and have had the same experience, the DWL-122 works well.

When I connected the D-Link DWL-G120 I started having problems - my Tivo unit was loosing time (see thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=224398).

My experience is that it takes +/- 2 times the length of show (so a one hour show will transfer in two hours). It does not bother me, because I start the transfers at night - the last thing I do on my PC at night. So it has all night to transfer.

Rudi


----------



## jmille22

Any chance that the D-Link DWL G132 USB adaptor will be supported in the near future? By support, does that mean adding specific drivers to the TiVo software and redeploying? I'm running a D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G wireless router (DI-624) and in theory can get up to 108MBPS between two Xtreme G devices (like the DWL G132). Wouldn't that be a hoot?!?!?


----------



## CrispyCritter

jmille22 said:


> Any chance that the D-Link DWL G132 USB adaptor will be supported in the near future? By support, does that mean adding specific drivers to the TiVo software and redeploying? I'm running a D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G wireless router (DI-624) and in theory can get up to 108MBPS between two Xtreme G devices (like the DWL G132). Wouldn't that be a hoot?!?!?


But not useful, as all transfers above wireless B are limited by the CPU speed of the TiVo, and not the transfer speed of the mechanism. (Wireless G speeds are roughly the same at wireless B.)

Yes, TiVo would have to add Linux drivers (do they even exist at the moment?) and update the software to be able to use them.


----------



## maxxl

Well so it is safe to say that technology is moving way to fast for Tivo to catch up. Im new to wireless stuff but I here that wireless A is out now. Maybe the Question is Tivo if your so technologicly advanced pioneering the way we watch and record TV how come u cant keep up with the latest technology advances that you utilize??
Of course I will probably never receive a response from tivo and the fact that I still own these wonderful peices of technology. Someday, maybe it will all be "fixed" 
MAXXL


----------



## rog

maxxl said:


> Well so it is safe to say that technology is moving way to fast for TiVo to catch up...
> 
> Maybe the question is: TiVo if you're so technologically advanced, pioneering the way we watch and record TV, how come you can't keep up with the latest technology advances that you utilize?


To be fair, this particular area (wireless networking) is not an easy task for TiVo. Why? Frankly, because they made the very wise choice long ago at their inception to build on top of the open-source Linux platform. The advantages for consumers are not hard to see; cheaper TiVo boxes, an open platform (which is why we can hack our TiVo's to add more space, among other things!), and reliability and stability. Can you think what the TiVo experience would have been like if it were based on Windows Media Center or any other Windows platform? No thanks!

TiVo chose to go with Linux from the getgo, and it is one of the primary reasons that we have such a strong platform in the TiVo.

Specifically, TiVo has two options when integrating the wireless access: to either wait for the open-source community to release solid code that can interface with the network hardware, OR, to write this code (the "drivers") themselves. The problem is that most of the time, the wireless equipment manufacturers are not writing Linux drivers, and are not providing any specifications. That often means the network drivers have to be reverse engineered.

Waiting for the open-source community is, to the best of my knowledge, the route TiVo has taken. This is probably wise from a business point-of-view.

It just sucks for us, as we have to be a lot more patient when trying to use newer wireless equipment.

I hope they are working on optimizing the 802.11g drivers as we speak. Even with the understanding of the complications involved, I do expect them to get it done...


----------



## beknudsen

Does anyone happen to know if/when the Linksys model WUSB54G 802.11g adapter will be supported by the Series 2/540 boxes running 7.1a?

Any insight provide is appreciated....


----------



## rog

A quick search of this forum using *WUSB54G* turned up many results, including this one:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2687282&&#post2687282

It's already worked for some, although it definitely is NOT supported and your mileage may vary.


----------



## Footballer

rog said:


> A quick search of this forum using *WUSB54G* turned up many results, including this one:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2687282&&#post2687282
> 
> It's already worked for some, although it definitely is NOT supported and your mileage may vary.


So it looks like either way I'd have to wait for at least 7.1. I just got one of the new Humax 80-hour Tivo's the other day, and I'm waiting for the 7.1 upgrade. Hopefully it comes in soon and I can try it out, because on 5.x, it definitely doesn't detect the WUSB54G,


----------



## rog

Footballer said:


> So it looks like either way I'd have to wait for at least 7.1. I just got one of the new Humax 80-hour Tivo's the other day, and I'm waiting for the 7.1 upgrade. Hopefully it comes in soon and I can try it out, because on 5.x, it definitely doesn't detect the WUSB54G.


That is correct, you'll need 7.1. Have you signed up on the priority list? At this point, it should only take about 3 days (max) to receive the update once you sign up on the list.


----------



## outtacontext

I would like to connect to the Tivo service wirelessly via my DSL connect. Our phone jack is not close to the unit so it's my understanding I will be able to let the Tivo connect via the wireless. Yes? 

I can see from the discussions here that finding the right firmware version of a g-capable unit is hard. I've had the same problem. Not even the techs at the companies who make these things understand what you're talking about. 

So, before I wait in anticipation for the right unit to become available, am I on the right track in assuming that I can use a wireless connection to connect to Tivo for my service calls?


----------



## rog

outtacontext said:


> I would like to connect to the Tivo service wirelessly via my DSL connect. Our phone jack is not close to the unit so it's my understanding I will be able to let the Tivo connect via the wireless. Yes?
> 
> I can see from the discussions here that finding the right firmware version of a g-capable unit is hard. I've had the same problem. Not even the techs at the companies who make these things understand what you're talking about.
> 
> So, before I wait in anticipation for the right unit to become available, am I on the right track in assuming that I can use a wireless connection to connect to Tivo for my service calls?


Assuming you already have a wireless router setup, which is able to share your DSL connection, then yes, you can go the wireless route for your TiVo.

I'm not sure I would bother with a 802.11g device at this point. You'll probably get more reliability and (ironically) better speed from an older 802.11b adapter. And you'll save some dough.

I would recommend the DLink DWL-122 USB adapter. It just works.


----------



## schizoid2k

rog said:


> That is correct, you'll need 7.1. Have you signed up on the priority list? At this point, it should only take about 3 days (max) to receive the update once you sign up on the list.


I just tried the Linksys WUSB54G on an older Series 2 (about 2 years old) with 7.1a and it didn't detect it.

I just bought a new 80hr Series 2 and I am waiting for the 7.1a update.... will this work on there?

I am having a heck of a time trying to find wireles USB adapters that work... this is my third attempt in 2 days. The lis tof adapters on the Tivo site lists older 11.b adapters that are hard to find because they are not made anymore.

Has anyone had any luck wiht the WUSB54G on any Series 2 with 7.1a? Shoud I wait and try it on the new box once the software update comes in?


----------



## schizoid2k

schizoid2k said:


> I just tried the Linksys WUSB54G on an older Series 2 (about 2 years old) with 7.1a and it didn't detect it.
> 
> I just bought a new 80hr Series 2 and I am waiting for the 7.1a update.... will this work on there?
> 
> I am having a heck of a time trying to find wireles USB adapters that work... this is my third attempt in 2 days. The lis tof adapters on the Tivo site lists older 11.b adapters that are hard to find because they are not made anymore.
> 
> Has anyone had any luck wiht the WUSB54G on any Series 2 with 7.1a? Shoud I wait and try it on the new box once the software update comes in?


bump...

anyone??


----------



## schizoid2k

hmmm.. 7+ hours without a reply... a record?

"thanks for all the help with this", he says sarcastically.

 :down:


----------



## outtacontext

Thanks Rog. I will take your suggestion.


----------



## philwatson

I have a series 2 unit and would like to use TTG. I understand that I can use an approved wireless adatper, but since I can run a 50' wire from the wireless router to the TiVo, is there any advantage in doing this and then how would I still conntect intot the USB port? I'm trying to get the best transfer speed possible (understanding the limits of the USB port of course). Any suggestions would be appreciated.

UPDATE: I believe that after further investigation I can run the wire from the router to a Linksys USB200M which has a RJ45 connection and then you plug the device into the USB port. Can anyone think of issues I may have with this setup?


----------



## outtacontext

rog said:


> Assuming you already have a wireless router setup, which is able to share your DSL connection, then yes, you can go the wireless route for your TiVo.
> 
> I'm not sure I would bother with a 802.11g device at this point. You'll probably get more reliability and (ironically) better speed from an older 802.11b adapter. And you'll save some dough.
> 
> I would recommend the DLink DWL-122 USB adapter. It just works.


I went to CompUSA today to look for the DWL-122 and all they had was the DWL-G122, the .g successor to the .b. Will that work?

CompUSA doesn't even sell the DWL-122 any longer (according to their instore computer network)


----------



## rosevines

> *Important Notes*
> 
> - These new adapters work only with newer Series2 boxes that TiVo service numbers that start with 230, 240, 264, 540, 590.


So I guess this means my Toshiba RS-TX60 with a service number starting with 565 isn't going to work with the Netgear adapter?

Why isn't all this information available in an easily digestible format? This'll be the third adapter I've had to return because the info is scattered all over the place. <sigh>

Can I do any sort of networking with a Toshiba box? If so, what (specifically) do I need in order to do it?

Rose


----------



## CrispyCritter

rosevines said:


> So I guess this means my Toshiba RS-TX60 with a service number starting with 565 isn't going to work with the Netgear adapter?
> 
> Why isn't all this information available in an easily digestible format? This'll be the third adapter I've had to return because the info is scattered all over the place.


This page seems to include everything you want, and is reasonably easily gotten to:  Link to TiVo page


----------



## mkruse

outtacontext said:


> I went to CompUSA today to look for the DWL-122 and all they had was the DWL-G122, the .g successor to the .b. Will that work?


No. At least, for me it didn't.

I bought the G122 by accident (I didn't have the supported adapter list with me). After going through the pain of registering for the 7.1 release and dialing in manually for a few days, I got the update today.

Rebooted, saw the new version, and plugged in the G122 - nothing. No lights on the adapter.

Since the 122 is supported, I imagine the G122 will be supported at some point in the future. But I'm not sure I want to wait (I don't have a phone line near where I want to put my tivo) so I might take the G122 back and buy something that is on the compatability list for sure.


----------



## rog

outtacontext said:


> I went to CompUSA today to look for the DWL-122 and all they had was the DWL-G122, the .g successor to the .b. Will that work?


Check out the first post in this very thread.

Just in case people are too lazy for that (man, I'm just encouraging that, aren't I?), this is from TiVoBill:



> If you do not already have a wireless adapter, the two 802.11g adapters that we are recommending are:
> 
> - D-Link DWL-G120 version B2
> - Netgear WG111


And don't miss this caveat, again from the same post:



> The speed of these adapters is comparable with the 802.11b adapters on our list, so we do not recommend changing from an 802.11b adapter to an 802.11g adapter at this time. We added support for these 802.11g adapters because they are more widely available that then 802.11b adapters on our list.
> 
> Also, the 7.1 software will recognize additional 802.11g adapters not listed above, but we do not recommend using those adapters at this time since they have not been tested and may not perform as well as the ones that we recommend in daily connections and/or network transfers.


----------



## irandsert

rog said:


> Specifically, TiVo has two options when integrating the wireless access: to either wait for the open-source community to release solid code that can interface with the network hardware, OR, to write this code (the "drivers") themselves. The problem is that most of the time, the wireless equipment manufacturers are not writing Linux drivers, and are not providing any specifications. That often means the network drivers have to be reverse engineered.


I guess my main question is why didn't tivo simply add a standard ethernet card as opposed to two usb ports. You would assume that open source development for NIC cards are more advanced than the 2 dozen different wireless adapters. This would also give end-users the ability to do what they want, you can go wireless if you want to with a game adapter or go wired.


----------



## rog

irandsert said:


> I guess my main question is why didn't tivo simply add a standard ethernet card as opposed to two usb ports. You would assume that open source development for NIC cards are more advanced than the 2 dozen different wireless adapters. This would also give end-users the ability to do what they want, you can go wireless if you want to with a game adapter or go wired.


A good question. I have no idea why they didn't include a NIC. The hardware is cheap and the drivers are readily available for Linux.

Anyone?


----------



## CrispyCritter

rog said:


> A good question. I have no idea why they didn't include a NIC. The hardware is cheap and the drivers are readily available for Linux.
> 
> Anyone?


The Series2 is a 2001 design; prehistoric days in the annals of home networks! They had to choose between a NIC and USB, because of both expenses and motherboard design. At the time, the plan was to have music, photos, and games be directly loaded onto the TiVo. USB was needed for that. Obviously, plans changed!

I'm sure the Series3 will have a NIC.


----------



## YankeeRudi

Reading through some of the questions and comments on this thread, I have just a few comments of my own:

- I have used TTG for about 2 months and am transferring an average of 3 hours per night. Time is not an issue to me - I transfer at night.
- I have 2 Tivo units on a wireless network using D-Link DWL-122 and have had no problems.
- I tried the DWL-G122 and although I had no problem transferring, I did have problems on my Tivo (see thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=224398 for details)

For anyone looking for the either DWL-120 or DWL-122 (both 11b types) got to TigerDirect.com.

Rudi


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## YankeeRudi

After posting my comments, I just visited TigerDirect and found out that the D-Link adaptors that I suggested are no longer available. Sorry guys.

They were still available recently. Your next best choice is ebay. The DWL-122 is available for $20 on buy it now.

Good luck


----------



## mikebee

hi there, 
i'm hoping someone can give me a straightforward answer to my question. 

i recently dropped my phone service (VOIP here i come!), and was planning on finally hooking up my Tivo to my home wireless network. i bought a Netgear WG111 wireless adapter prior to cancelling my phone service, but i neglected to notice that i would need to have my Tivo software upgraded to v7.1 before I would be able to use the wireless adaptor. Now my phone service is cut off (a day premature, actually) and I have no way to update my Tivo from my apartment. 
my question is this: If i sign up for the update, can i merely wait three days (maybe a couple more for good measure), then take my Tivo to a friend's house, hook it up to their telephone line, and then download the update? i'm not entirely sure how the updates work - does my box have its own ID so that the server knows its mine?

any help is appreciated!


----------



## Justin Thyme

MikeBee- you might not have to wait long. You can force a connection from any phone line. Go to Messages and System. settings. Phone and network settings. Connect to Tivo service Now.

Unless their server is still choked with requests for 7.1, you should get it soon enough. I don't know if there currently is a wait. Maybe you will just have to let your friend use your tivo for a week.... Hope you are good friends in that case or you may never see it again.



rog said:


> ... Frankly, because they made the very wise choice long ago at their inception to build on top of the open-source Linux platform. The advantages for consumers are not hard to see; *cheaper TiVo boxes*, an open platform (which is *why we can hack * our TiVo's to add more space, among other things!), and *reliability and stability*.


I think it is correct there is a problem with not getting timely wireless G support and other connectivity because of the choice of Linux as a system platform.

As a user I could care less whose OS is under the hood be it Apples or Microsofts, or Sony's. All these folks know how to make reliable and stable OS's, and know how to provide them cheaply. If what you are saying is true, then people would be able to hack and improve the XBOX, IPod, or Playstations.

Contrary to your assertions, these proprietary OS's 

Do not make a device expensive- Can be sold in less than $200 units
can be and are heavily hacked to add more things that are available for Tivo
are reliable 
are stable- eg MS smartphones from Samsung, Motorolla, Nokia, or Orange

Both Apple and MS have great OS's that can interface to a large number of devices. Neither of them had OS's that could be used for a DVR when Tivo was first produced. MS now does, and Apple I am sure will soon, though they will refuse to sell it to anyone unless they buy the hardware that is bundled with it.

I think with time, Linux will have a more substantial base of third party hardware support. I can see advocating it for that reason though it would not be too convincing an argument for most users who could care less about OS wars.


----------



## mikebee

>>Unless their server is still choked with requests for 7.1, you should get it soon enough.

So the update will simply be waiting for me to force a connection? meaning the box doesnt have to be connected to a phone line and waiting for it, that I can just wait a couple days, then go and force the connection..


----------



## CrispyCritter

mikebee said:


> >>Unless their server is still choked with requests for 7.1, you should get it soon enough.
> 
> So the update will simply be waiting for me to force a connection? meaning the box doesnt have to be connected to a phone line and waiting for it, that I can just wait a couple days, then go and force the connection..


Correct. They flip a switch (metaphorically) on your account and the next time you dial in you will get the upgrade. It may take them a couple of days to flip the switch, so your scheme sounds reasonable.

Note that this assumes you do NOT have a TiVo DVD recorder, for which 7.1 doesn't exist yet.


----------



## maschiff

I'm looking at the TiVo store and can't find the DWL-G120. I can only find the DWL-122 and the Netgear WG111.


----------



## mikebee

thanks for the help, everyone!


----------



## rog

Justin Thyme: I'm not sure I understand your point (perhaps you were not trying to make one though).

Do you want TiVo to use Microsoft MCE technology? Some nonexistent Apple technology (they will probably never license their software for use on non-apple hardware -- they haven't done so once throughout their entire existence, AFAIK)?

Linux is a clear winner for embedded devices and other hardware like the TiVo. On top of the stability and reliability, there are no licensing costs. Plus, you can take the open-source Linux code (for the kernel, for any drivers, for the filesystem, for the surrounding software) and really eliminate anything not needed for that specific device. You cannot alter and customize a MS-based platform like that.

I disagree that a MS-based OS is as stable as a Linux-based OS. Don't get me wrong, I use OS's from all three companies. But my Linux and UNIX based systems _always_ have much longer uptime.


----------



## Justin Thyme

rog said:


> Justin Thyme: I'm not sure I understand your point (perhaps you were not trying to make one though).


My point was very simple and I will repeat it. All the advantages you list are illusory, and the disadvantages of relying on linux are all too obvious to Tivo customers day in and day out.

For example, there are thousands of USB devices but none of them work with Linux. I want to do stuff like plug a removable Hard drive into the usb and have it recognize it so I can bypass TTG. I want to download video to my handheld. Will I ever get that support? Look how long it took for crucial cababilities like USB 2.0 and wireless G have taken.

What customer ever asked a salesman what the manufacturer paid in licensing costs? We could care less. Customers care about the cost of the box, not which vendor of which part got how much of the profit.

Who cares about unprovable assertions of stability. Using what configurations, using what third party software with drivers of what quality, etc etc? Scientific Atlanta boxes use Linux and guess what- they are notorious for requiring resets. You assert one particular vendor has a more unstable OS in theory. Well, multiple phone vendors are relying on it and other proprietary non linux OS and are selling millions of them without any complaints of instability or high cost.

Who cares about Open Source. Yeah, it sure is nice that some unpaid programmer got interested enought to fix the OS so we can now put hard drives in our tivos that are larger than 137GB. But geez- even OS9 had support for 2 terabyte volumes and NT has had the same since its begininnig.

If Tivo switches to another OS, we get more connectivity, we get more third party vendors building hardware and software that works with Tivo, not because they are creating it for Tivo's puny 3 million unit base, but for a customer bases 10 fold or a hundred fold larger.

What is not obvious is what the source of this lack of connectivity. You correctly pointed to Linux, but stated that the benefits outweigh these costs. I disagree.

I could care less what OS is running under the hood so long as I can buy stuff that works was well on Tivo as it does with other platforms the product was designed for. If Apple buys Tivo and rips out Linux, fine. Good riddance if I can connect the Tivo to more stuff. If Tivo goes to MCE in version 3 or 4 then fine- I'm not going to hang garlic on it to keep it from spitting split pea soup at me.


----------



## rog

Justin Thyme said:


> My point was very simple and I will repeat it.


I don't think your point is simple at all. In fact, you've made many different points -- so many that I barely know where to start. 

The heart of your argument seems to be two part:

1) As a platform for the TiVo, Linux is more of a disadvantage for the customer than an advantage. In other words, Linux has become a liability.

-and-

2) TiVo should switch to a Windows MCE platform. Or to an Apple platform.

As to #1, that is an interesting point, but I strongly disagree. I think this is the first time I've ever heard anyone argue that Linux is no good for TiVo.

As to #2: I have used MCE, and I am not all that impressed. The TiVo GUI is a hands down winner by comparison. I'd much rather be forced to use a 802.11b adapter than give up the TiVo GUI in favor of MCE!

And I don't understand why we are even still talking about some nonexistent software from Apple. I'm all for speculation, but if we're talking about TiVo changing platforms, the platform better exist!



Justin Thyme said:


> All the advantages you list are illusory, and the disadvantages of relying on linux are all too obvious to Tivo customers day in and day out.


Illusory? The advantages of using Linux for the TiVo, as I listed in my original post:

- cheaper TiVo boxes
- an open platform (which is why we can hack our TiVo's to add more space, among other things!)
- reliability and stability

I'll talk about cost and open-source in a minute. Concerning reliability and stability, you later go on to say, "neither [Microsoft or Apple] had OS's that could be used for a DVR when Tivo was first produced". I couldn't agree more. So you think it's wise to just switch gears now? That doesn't make sense.

I don't think you have really thought about the process that would have to occur to port the TiVo interface from Linux into Windows MCE (or to some nonexistent Apple DVR software). That would be a huge development effort. And what about after it is ported? Would you suggest TiVo support both platforms at once? What about the 3 million existing customers with Linux based boxes? And, really, think about it... it just wouldn't be the same ol' TiVo if it were based on MCE. Have you actually used MCE? It's just not as polished.



Justin Thyme said:


> For example, there are thousands of USB devices but none of them work with Linux. I want to do stuff like plug a removable Hard drive into the usb and have it recognize it so I can bypass TTG. I want to download video to my handheld. Will I ever get that support? Look how long it took for crucial cababilities like USB 2.0 and wireless G have taken.


Wireless G only seems crucial to you. You are obviously a tech-savvy customer. That's fine, many of us here are. I have thought how nice it would be to be able to connect my 200 GB USB drive too.

But this is not seeing the bigger picture. This is a TiVo. The things you are asking for come in a PC.

Not only would adding all these features inherently add cost (hardware, software development, added support overhead), but they would also add complexity to the TiVo. By nature, that would take away some of the simplicity and elegance that is TiVo.



Justin Thyme said:


> What customer ever asked a salesman what the manufacturer paid in licensing costs? We could care less.


Of course, you're right. But you're missing the bigger picture.

The cost of a Microsoft license (for MCE, or any other MS software) has to be absorbed somehow. In a simple scenario, that could mean a more expensive TiVo for the customer. Or it could mean that TiVo pulls less profit from the sale of that box (profits!? what profits!?). In other words, that money comes from somewhere, and it can't possibly be helpful for the customer or investor, _unless_ it provides some value that can provide enough benefit to offset the cost of the license.



Justin Thyme said:


> Who cares about unprovable assertions of stability. Using what configurations, using what third party software with drivers of what quality, etc etc? Scientific Atlanta boxes use Linux and guess what- they are notorious for requiring resets. You assert one particular vendor has a more unstable OS in theory.


You're right, nothing is always rock-solid. And most of my points about Linux's stability are not quantified. Having worked with Linux/UNIX, Mac OS, and Windows 9X/NT/2K/XP machines every day for the past 8 years, and having monkey'd around on these systems for longer than that, I can just know some of these things without having to perform empirical studies on the subject... MS software is buggy.



Justin Thyme said:


> If Tivo switches to another OS, we get more connectivity, we get more third party vendors building hardware and software that works with Tivo


Sigh. Here you go asking for TiVo to be a PC again. Why not just build your own media center PC? Try MythTV, and let us know how long it takes you to get everything setup.

Look, it's not that you can't have these features. It's a matter of cost and usability.



Justin Thyme said:


> What is not obvious is what the source of this lack of connectivity. You correctly pointed to Linux, but stated that the benefits outweigh these costs. I disagree.


Lack of connectivity? You can connect, wired or wirelessly, to your TiVo. Yes, true 802.11g transfer speeds for TTG would be nice. But 802.11b is cheap, and it works fine. Or go the wired route for even faster transfers.

In any case, I've already explained the problem with 802.11g drivers. Hopefully they are working on optimizing them. If this is the only problem that comes from using Linux, I'm ok with it. I just don't see the justification for moving to a MS platform. That's a bit extreme.


----------



## Justin Thyme

You know very well that the Tivo UI can exist exactly as it does now running on top of any different operating system- whether it is an NT core or an OSX core. Last I checked Tivo doesn't present the user with a bash prompt. Nor does a Tivo box running on top of OSX or an NT code base have to let the user ever see an Apple or WindoZe desktop.

You know very well that consumer devices based on non linux proprietary code bases are both inexpensive and stable enough for phones. There are also many cases of consumer linux boxes that are unstable. You attribute fragility to anything not linux. Another Myth.

If your problem is that you are of the school of MS=brained-damaged-lamer-coders/thieves, then if MS code is so buggy, why aren't we hearing of millions of Samsung, Nokia and Orange phones needing to be rebooted continually? Myth. OS engineers at Apple, Microsoft, and the armies of Linux engineers at AT&T, IBM, HP, Intel and so many other blue chip companies are all very competent. OS9 and Windows95-98 may have been crap, but OSX and NT-XP definitely are solid pieces of work more than up to 24/7 applications. The way you configure an OS is crucial- if you wish to blame an OS because of its popularity- then that is something else. In Apple and MS's cases, I will grant you that there are so many more ways to screw them up with memory leaking or faulting device drivers or untested code written by weekend warriors- but that is a weakness of the person who configured the machine, not the OS. And the people in this case configuring the machine would be Tivo engineers, not end users. I would expect Tivo to provide official support of particular devices and apps only after they were thoroughly tested. Tivo's burden shifts from developing drivers on their own to picking from thousands, and choosing the best based on testing.

And if you think that all linux programmers are altruistic, take a look at the motivations of those at OpenTV, AT&T, IBM, Intel and HP who are spending millions on linux development. I don't really care that they are as cutthroat as MS and Apple- actually I am a big fan of entrepreneurial drive versus socialist theologies that many linux zealots seem to advocate. In the end I don't really care about their beliefs or motives or the hidden agendas of the megabillion dollar corporations funding linux. I'll buy their products if they were delver capability I want to buy. But for whatever reason they are not delivering. So who needs them.

The folks who have been rewarded with huge amounts of money from innovating their OS's are highly motivated to keep innovating their OS's. Linux developers are not, and it is not surprizing that there is a corresponding of lack of vitality in simply keeping up with providing drivers for devices that are taken for granted in the Mac and Windoze worlds. Acts as simple as changing the resolution of the display screen is incredibly painful on linux. Compare that to the three click simplicity on Mac or Windows platforms. The definition of a power user on linux is someone comfortable with typing long bash prompt commands where dropping a back slash operand can mean disaster. That is stuff that linux developers are comfortable with, but their interests and comfort zones are not representative of those of consumers.

Is a Apple platform for a standalone DVR non existent? Really- Take a look at a Mac Mini. Is OSX nonexistent or somehow incompatible with small? How hard would it be to slap the Tivo UI on it? Give me a break. You aren't even thinking. Now, I personally believe there are good reasons that Apple will not buy Tivo and do such a thing, but it is certainly not for want of a good OS to base it on. Sure I could I be wrong they they actually buy Tivo in order to buy market share and their only real competition in that space. Should they do so, I would enthusiastically support their decision to rip out the linux code and replace it with OSX.

Your changing horses midstream pitch does not wash. Gee, I notice Series 1 tivos don't get TTG. And anyway, what are the real backwards compatibility issues. Oh. They have to play MPEG2 scrambled files, have a IP interface to serve up shows... what else. As for porting- various flavors of NT run on Mips platforms in general and Broadcom chips in specific. Apple has not been motivated to port to those chips, but it would make no sense for them to maintain two separate OS bases simply because of their desire to avoid the tedium of stomping endian bugs.

You know that the Xbox based on proprietary and secret NT code is hacked as much as Tivos are. Ipods and playstations are also heavily hacked. Yet the vitality of this hacking activity should not be possible according to you because none are open source. Another myth.

Your arguments offer speculation and wistful and idealistic thinking in response to facts.

On this particular subject of Wireless G, you are simply ill informed concerning advantages of wired speeds over wireless g. It doesn't matter if you lay glass fiber because transfer sluggihsness not an io bound but hardware bound problem as tivobill stated. You aren't going to get much beyond 6.5 mbps (see HDTivo comments). More typical speeds for untuned networks is real time. Wireless G is not crucial to me, my home is fully dual cat5e wired. Wireless is crucial to Tivo because it makes it easier to roll out strategic internet connectivity features. Most folks don't want to run network cable. But look how long it took Tivo to deliver Wireless G support, and look at the reason TivoBill stated- lack of linux drivers. That just sucks.

Consumers want performance on connectivity issues, not empty promises of something that ought to be better for many hypothetical reasons, but isn't on all counts, given empirical evidence to the contrary.

You may have missed my interactions with Mac zealots, I am an equal opportunity offender. Though I have not had the same pleasure here with MS/ generic PC PVR advocates, I am fully ready to debunk their preposterous propositions. I agree with your general statements regarding stock MCE or any other generalized PC approach versus a highly simplified, limited and tested UI as pioneered by Tivo.


----------



## rog

I'm just going to agree to disagree here. I don't have time to respond to that lengthy post in detail.

You make some valid points, but in the end, you're still asking for TiVo to switch over to a Microsoft or Apple platform. I think that is a bad idea, for reasons I already stated. You have certainly not changed my mind.

I also think you are in the minority with some of the features you are asking for. You should build your own DVR, in my humble opinion. It could do everything you're asking for.

TiVo is what it is primarily because of its simplicity and ease of use.


----------



## Justin Thyme

No man is an island.

Same goes for Tivo.

Demand for device connectivity in the home does not equal demand for a Desktop UI, vertical boxes and noisy fans.

Tivo can ignore that demand at its peril.


----------



## dachtler

Is there any update on support for the Linksys WUSB54GS wireless adapters? I just bought two of these from newegg.com to connect my mother-in-law's two TiVos, and forgot to check if these were compatibile before ordering them. Before I return them, and pay the 15% restocking fee, I wanted to check to see if they might be supported. My mother-in-law has a 240 series 40hr and a 590 series Humax 80hr unit.


----------



## ScottEllsworth

TiVoBill said:


> I am not aware of any plans to add support for WPA encryption at this time.


Hi, Bill.

I understand that this feature may take some time to implement, but it is worth that time. WEP can be cracked, and with the amount of traffic a TiVo can generate, can be cracked quickly. WPA cannot be easily cracked unless you pick a poor password.

Getting support for WPA would dramatically increase the security of our home networks.

Again, I understand that it is not easy. It is, however, worth it.

Scott


----------



## alinke

TiVoBill said:


> USB 2.0 is enabled in 7.1 for the platforms that support it (all Series2 boxes except for the ones that have service numbers starting with "1"). There are other hardware issues on the box that limit transfer speeds over a wireless connection, so we do not expect the 802.11g adapters to be considerably faster than the 802.11b ones at this time. Many customers have reported much faster speeds using USB 2.0 wired adapters however or wired-to-wireless bridges as you mentioned.


Hey Bill, was wondering when 7.1 and USB 2.0 support will be available for the Toshiba TIVOs. I'm on a wired network so I was wondering if the USB 2.0 support would make a significant improvement for multi-room and for mp3's. thanks.


----------



## Agro

I am about ready to put a bullet in my head. I called TiVo, got Sony's number, got 4 different departments are Sony, every single one asked me 30 questions (wasting 15 minutes of my time per number) and then had no way to help me.

I have an SVR-3000.
I want to use a wireless USB adapter
I purchased a NETGEAR WG-111RV, which did not work with my TiVo.

I read this post about how it says...
- These new adapters work only with newer Series2 boxes that TiVo service numbers that start with 230, 240, 264, 540, 590.

My service number starts with 1100000b01xxxxxx

Can anyone give me some recommendations on what exactly I need to buy? I would love to use the other Home networking features, but at this time I have no programming info (it ran out when i most to a plaec with no phone) and need that info asap.

Thank you!!!


----------



## rog

Agro said:


> I have an SVR-3000. I want to use a wireless USB adapter.
> 
> ...
> 
> new adapters work only with newer Series2 boxes that [have] TiVo service numbers that start with 230, 240, 264, 540, 590.
> 
> ...
> 
> My service number starts with 1100000b01xxxxxx
> 
> Can anyone give me some recommendations on what exactly I need to buy? I would love to use the other Home networking features...


Agro: do you have version 7.x on your TiVo? Without it, you won't be able to take advantage of TiVoToGo and some of the other networking features. I think multi-room viewing (MRV) may work on earlier versions, but I'm not sure.


----------



## stevengeringer

Hey TiVo Bill:

Will these new adapters actually WORK? The reason I ask is because I have a Netgear MA111 (Version 1) that the TiVo recognizes - and it connects to my home network - and then disconnects and "can't be found" after around 10 minutes. I have to unplug and replug the adapter EVERY TIME for it to work again for the few minutes.

TiVo To Go - or anything relating to the wireless adapter - is absolutely useless for me due to this problem.

...and I know I'm not the only one experiencing this. Check out other postings...there are A LOT of reported problems.

Maybe you can look into fixing problems while also adding new adapters?

TiVo Customer Support is clueless too. Kind of pointless having the wireless adapter when all I can stay on the network is 10 minutes, tops!

- Steve

Comcast, Series 2 DVR, 40 hours, Netgear MA111 (Version 1), version 7.1 currently installed on the TiVo.


----------



## debi5475

I just noticed that connecting the Tivos to a network was free now. I just bought my husband a Toshiba DVD burner Tivo for our anniversary. I have a Pioneer 57 model. We have a 80 hour model that will go in the livingroom for the kids, it starts with a 2. 

While I could get the 80hour up to system 7.1, not the two dvd burner models. 

From what I read the D-Link DWL-122 (which is discontinued) is the wireless adapter I want? What about the Linksys WUSB12?

We have a D-link wired and wireless router, in the den, down the basement. I access it on my mac laptop upstairs with no problem.  

I am so confused. 

Help!!!!


----------



## crackers

I am looking into setting up a peer to peer on my Tivo series 2/ 240 & 540. the linksys wusb11 is on sale at circuit city how well does it work? Will I have any problems with the quality or sound on watching in the other room or is it only the download time that will be longer because I can't do a g unless I want to use a router.


----------



## webennet

I have a Series 2 with 140 serial. I need to get a compatible wireless adapter. I cannot find it online any where. Does any one know where i can find a wireless adapter? PLEASE...

Thanks


----------



## crackers

How well does the Linksys wusb11 work?


----------



## paradave

I went through three different models before getting the right one. Netgear has awsome products, second only to cisco in mho, and I am a network admin. BUT the list says that the wg111 is compatible and that is not completely true. The wg111 models are:

wg111t
wg111na
wg111... umm something rad or super fast, i forget.


the ONLY one that will work is the wg111na, i know, I returned the other two this morning, lol. And yes I have the 7.1 update on my series 2 brand spanking new tivo. picked it up thursday... 

but at this time, the networking is working fine, although I havent moved anything to the pc yet to be burned, I hear it is quite slow, which to me, is not that big of a deal as long as it works. 

but I hope tivo makes the note on their list about the netgear wg111na being the correct model.

dave


----------



## debi5475

Well the d-link 122 does work. Got it off ebay for $20. Put it in, updated the firmware, and away we went. The network is b anyway. Recongnized right away. Finally. Success. 

Now if they will only update it to work with tiger.


----------



## paradave

Sorry deb, what is tiger?

D


----------



## bilbo

i think deb is referring to the new apple operating system tiger. i don't think tivo to go works with macs at all yet (and not the newest os platform, either).


----------



## paradave

Ahhhh! Gotcha.


----------



## YankeeRudi

crackers said:


> I am looking into setting up a peer to peer on my Tivo series 2/ 240 & 540. the linksys wusb11 is on sale at circuit city how well does it work? Will I have any problems with the quality or sound on watching in the other room or is it only the download time that will be longer because I can't do a g unless I want to use a router.


I am not sure if I understand your question. Are you trying to connect 2 Tivo units via 11b adaptors without a router? An adaptor can only connect to another adaptor via the wireless router. You cannot set up a "peer-to-peer" by only using 2 usb wireless adaptors.

Hope this helps.

Rudi


----------



## crackers

It is my understanding to do a peer to peer all I need to do is buy 2 Linksys wusb12 (or one of the others on their list) and plug them into the usb on the back of my TiVo's. Then the plug n'play will give me the prompts to make a network between the 2 TiVo's. 

I have 2 TiVo series 2, a 240 80 hrs. & 540 140 hrs in 2 separate rooms.


----------



## ffrllc

Hey all,

I have an older series 2 (serial number starting with 110) that I'd like to activate the TivoToGo feature. I have three other Tivo units in the house, but this is the only series 2. Until I get another series 2 to replace some of the other Tivos I'll connect this series 2 to a wireless network so I can transfer to my PC.

What would be the best and fastest adapter that will allow me to connect to my PC and transfer files with decent speed?

On a side note, how do you find out what the exact version of the adapters are before purchasing.? I'd like to get one off eBay as it will be cheaper, but how can the seller check the full version number to make sure it's the exact version I'll need?


Thanks in advance !!! :up:


----------



## perrykperry

And another quick question.... Which Series2 Tivos actually have USB 2.0 hardware? (I've got a 230040) I've been searching for a bit now and can't figure out whether I'd benefit from replacing my Linksys 1.1 wired adapter with the 2.0 version.... 
TIA- 
Kevin Perry


----------



## maxxl

Hello there. Lets see I have 2 540 models Its seem they are slow as "****". If you know what I mean. Run a surch for the first three numbers in the forums. I heard the 230 had newer faster procesor and guts. But im not an expert as you can tell from my terminology. I am using 54g netgear wg111 v2. made in china with the blue lights. I transefered a 59 min show and it took 2hrs 45 min. Yeah that sucks the big one. Plus know i get an error in my media player saying 
"Pins cannot connect due to not supporting the same transport." WTF is that anyhow? Does anyone know..... I am running windows 2000 with tivo desktop v2.1 . windows help gave me this number "80040266" Its supposed to help me figure out the problem. One guy says to reinstall the program. anyon deal with this at all? help please
MAX


----------



## A2Tivo

paradave said:


> I went through three different models before getting the right one. Netgear has awsome products, second only to cisco in mho, and I am a network admin. BUT the list says that the wg111 is compatible and that is not completely true. The wg111 models are:
> 
> wg111t
> wg111na
> wg111... umm something rad or super fast, i forget.


wg111U is the double 108Mbs adapter. It delivers two 108Mbs streams to the device. Also note that wg111 is also known as the wg111na.


----------



## quarque

YankeeRudi said:


> I am not sure if I understand your question. Are you trying to connect 2 Tivo units via 11b adaptors without a router? An adaptor can only connect to another adaptor via the wireless router. You cannot set up a "peer-to-peer" by only using 2 usb wireless adaptors.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Rudi


Not True!!! I have two Tivos linked via wireless adapters and NO router or AP. The trick is (I found out painfully) is the adapters MUST be 'b' capable only. Anything with 'g' capability does not work yet in peer-to-peer mode. I'm using the D-Link DWL-122 which is still sold at the Tivo Store if you can't find it on ebay or elsewhere.


----------



## quarque

crackers said:


> It is my understanding to do a peer to peer all I need to do is buy 2 Linksys wusb12 (or one of the others on their list) and plug them into the usb on the back of my TiVo's. Then the plug n'play will give me the prompts to make a network between the 2 TiVo's.
> 
> I have 2 TiVo series 2, a 240 80 hrs. & 540 140 hrs in 2 separate rooms.


Sort of. The adapters must be ON the list AND 'b' mode only. Anything with 'g' capability will not (yet) work in peer-to-peer. I'm running 2 D-Link DWL-122's in peer-to-peer with no problem. You have to go through an extra step to let the Tivo update the adapter firmware (via prompts on Tivo - very nice). After that you set up the wireless parameters and the TCP/IP parameters and you're done. I believe the WUSB12 is on the list and is 'b' mode only so it should work.

I also put TTG 2.0 on my PC and added another adapter to its USB ports with the same preamble for the IP address and the last digit unique from the others. It found the Tivo peer-to-peer network and connected within seconds. This adapter IS 'g' capable (WG111) but it knows the Tivo network was running in 'b' mode so it linked in that mode. It transfers shows in MED quality at about realtime speed or slightly faster (28 min for 30 min show). I can now also do a slide show on my HD set of jpeg digital photos from past vacations - not as good as a DVD I made playing in progressive mode on my DVD player, but close.


----------



## bpstivo

Please say it ain't so! It appears I got sucked into the g hype. When buying my 2nd Series 2 direct from Tivo they offered the WG111 adapter. Having purchased one way back for my first S2, accidentally, to replace the MA111v2 that wouldn't work, yada yada yada. But I digress. 

My setup: 
540080 
550040 
Netgear WGR614v4 
2 WG111v2 
1 DWL-122 
WinXPPro, Athlon 2500+, 512, 100 wired 

My Issue: 
While waiting for the 7.1b upgrade I tested the T2G performance with the DWL-122 (73% Signal) would take ~45 minutes for a 30 minute High recording (811MB). Got the 7.1b, plugged in the WG111 (I found you need to delete/re-enter the last character of both your SSID and WEP key or you get "gateway not found error", anybody else get this??), did the T2G transfer and... HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT! With a signal strength of 84% it said it would take ~1.5 hrs for the same recording...huh?!?! And a whopping 3 hrs 40 minutes for an hour show. 

Did some research here, found the filbay had similar results, saw no "solution" so I called Tivo support, figuring I did something stupid. Well after 10 minutes on hold after describing my problem, the young lady returned and said I just spoke to level 2 and I quote "As with the initial b support, which was slow, g support is slow" end quote! I translated as.. you are SOL! 

But here's my rub, with TiVo fighting off competitors for all angles, why release something that is WORSE than what is there. I could accept (begrudingly) similar performance to my b, but I upgraded to all g equipment (and the only reason is for speed) to get, slower performance!!! Please tell me how to ATLEAST get the same performance. MRV is unusable if you have to schedule the download 3 hours before you plan to watch! 

TivoBill, Mr. Ramsey, others, as a TiVo evangelist, you are making it very hard for me to keep Microsoft out of my entertainment center. I "sold" many a neighbor on the merits of TiVo (unfortunately, many before rewards...) don't make me a liar. 

What can I do so my WG111s run as fast as my DWL-122? 

Bryan


----------



## maxxl

I think it mostly has to do with the technolgy on the 540 box?? I beleive that is what i heard. The technology is faster on the newer series 2 boxes but lately all Ive seen in the stores is the 540 series tivo series 2 boxes. Anyone agree with me?? ive seen different postes about the newer series 2 boxes transfering the files at 3 times as fast than the 540 boxes. because of the technology used inside. I tell you one thing if I had known that I would have gone out of my way to find a newer tivo box rather put up with this crap....
MAX


----------



## tweekerz

I have a At & Tivo Series 2 TSN: 130xxxxx, with DWL-G121 B1 working fine... havent tested the transfers yet

It does update and it also sees other Tivos



TiVoBill said:


> My understanding is that the version number is labeled on the box. During the beta, we tested the WG111 version 2 and DWL-G120 version B2 most extensively, which is why we have decided to only recommend those two adapters at this time. Again, sorry for the inconvenience.


----------



## rog

bpstivo said:


> But here's my rub, with TiVo fighting off competitors for all angles, why release something that is WORSE than what is there. I could accept (begrudingly) similar performance to my b, but I upgraded to all g equipment (and the only reason is for speed) to get, slower performance!!!


Why release the 802.11g support? Despite the poor speed of TiVoToGo transfers when using 11g adapaters, I can give you at least 3 reasons why TiVo started offering (limited) support for 11g:

1) We begged for 11g support! The begging was very evident on this forum.

2) 11b adapters from the very small list of supported 11b devices were getting harder and harder to find in the stores.

3) Some people want to keep an "11g-only" network going (no "mixed mode").

Having given these reasons, I must say I think it SUCKS too, and I hope TiVo is working on optimizing the 11g drivers.

I've posted reasons for why the 11g support is poor already. It has to do with the Linux wireless drivers (or lack thereof).



bpstivo said:


> What can I do so my WG111s run as fast as my DWL-122?


Nothing. Unless you count "waiting for proper 11g support".


----------



## peepoop

TiVoBill said:


> - D-Link DWL-G120 version B2
> - Netgear WG111
> 
> These adapters can be purchased at many local or online retailers. The DWL-G120 is also available at the TiVo Store.


You have that backwards. If the Tivo store actually had B2s, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.


----------



## maxxl

peepoop said:


> You have that backwards. If the Tivo store actually had B2s, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.


I have to agree with you I havent seen the B2's in the stores at all. but I will never pay full price for an adapter. just picked up a netgear wg111 for $30 (after rebate) at office max a couple of weeks ago and they have the same sale this week too. I dont think the tivo store would be offering any kind of rebate anytime soon? I will never pay full price. 
Peace out, 
Max


----------



## bpstivo

rog said:


> I've posted reasons for why the 11g support is poor already. It has to do with the Linux wireless drivers (or lack thereof).


I guess my thoughts are, if TiVo is building ontop of Linux, being that its open source, if a feature/function isn't built in, then TiVo should build it in. Hire an expert (or pay NetGear, LinkSys, etc.) to build the better driver. Then in the spirit of open source, release it back.

Either way, I just want 802.11b performance as "advertised" I'll quietly wait for better, but I don't like taking the huge step back.

Anybody out there getting b performance with the WG111 adapter? Whats the trick? Additionally, I've noticed that my TiVo clock is losing time everyday, the call resets it, but if I check it around midnight before the call its off between 5 and 20 minutes EVERYDAY! I am having JavaHMO pull a bunch of recordings off nightly, can I overtax the unit?

Thoughts?


----------



## rog

bpstivo said:


> I guess my thoughts are, if TiVo is building ontop of Linux, being that its open source, if a feature/function isn't built in, then TiVo should build it in. Hire an expert (or pay NetGear, LinkSys, etc.) to build the better driver. Then in the spirit of open source, release it back.


I don't disagree with you!

As for your unit losing time, it could be that the battery on the motherboard is dying.


----------



## maxxl

bpstivo said:


> I guess my thoughts are, if TiVo is building ontop of Linux, being that its open source, if a feature/function isn't built in, then TiVo should build it in. Hire an expert (or pay NetGear, LinkSys, etc.) to build the better driver. Then in the spirit of open source, release it back.
> 
> Either way, I just want 802.11b performance as "advertised" I'll quietly wait for better, but I don't like taking the huge step back.
> 
> Anybody out there getting b performance with the WG111 adapter? Whats the trick? Additionally, I've noticed that my TiVo clock is losing time everyday, the call resets it, but if I check it around midnight before the call its off between 5 and 20 minutes EVERYDAY! I am having JavaHMO pull a bunch of recordings off nightly, can I overtax the unit?
> 
> Thoughts?


when u say call do you mean you are still using the phone to update tivo? I was transfering a file once and the clock was wrong until the transfer was done. I update the tivo over the network not through the phone line. I dont know if all that helped but good luck with that.
MAX


----------



## hgordin

Let me ask a dumb question - since its easier than reading 14 pages on here:

If I have a B router and B USB adapter, and everything is working OK (except losing Galleon now and then), is there any reason at all to change to a G network?

Thanks


----------



## MikeyB

HMO & TTG transfer speed.


----------



## CrispyCritter

MikeyB said:


> HMO & TTG transfer speed.


If those were in response to the previous post, I would disagree. Some people find speed goes up for HMO and TTG, but others find speed goes down (I'm talking about the direct connection of wireless-g to TiVo, not the wireless bridge "ultimate solution" thread which is different.) TiVo themselves recommends not changing if you have a working wireless-b network.


----------



## quarque

I agree with Crispy - it is more likely to be a waste of money than anything else unless you go the full boat ultimate solution.


----------



## hegewald123

I have a linksys wusb54g working in g broadcast mode working with a linksys wap54g router and no problems.


----------



## Edrock

paradave said:


> I went through three different models before getting the right one. Netgear has awsome products, second only to cisco in mho, and I am a network admin. BUT the list says that the wg111 is compatible and that is not completely true. The wg111 models are:
> 
> wg111t
> wg111na
> wg111... umm something rad or super fast, i forget.
> 
> the ONLY one that will work is the wg111na, i know, I returned the other two this morning, lol. And yes I have the 7.1 update on my series 2 brand spanking new tivo. picked it up thursday... but at this time, the networking is working fine, although I havent moved anything to the pc yet to be burned, I hear it is quite slow, which to me, is not that big of a deal as long as it works. but I hope tivo makes the note on their list about the netgear wg111na being the correct model.
> 
> dave


Dave,

I sent you an email-but I just found this post and you answered my question. I am returning the wg111t and I ordered the wg111na.

Thanks a bunch!

Ed


----------



## Pizzagod

I have a series 2 model TCD24004A and a series 2 model TCD230040. Just curious... are the 230 models equipped with USB 2.0 also?



ZeoTiVo said:


> all sereis 2 240 and 540 models and the DVD models have USB 2.0 hardware in them. TiVo had been using USB 1.1 spec drivers in 4x and 5x OS and has now released USB 2.0 drivers in 7x OS. As you noted USB 2.0 adapters could be plugged into the TiVo and work (and indeed worked a little better than a USB 1.1 adapter in 4x) . Now with the final piece of the puzzle going to USB 2.0 (the driver) MRV over wire is very fast. aprrently the wireless adapter drivers have other things going on that are casuing TiVo problems on getting to full speed on them.


----------



## megazone

Pizzagod said:


> I have a series 2 model TCD24004A and a series 2 model TCD230040. Just curious... are the 230 models equipped with USB 2.0 also?


Yes. The Series2 units that start with a '1' (110/130/140) are USB1.1, all other Series2 units are USB2.0.


----------



## rb_la

I have a Sony SVR-3000 (service # 110) that I would like to hook up to my home wireless b network using a Linksys befw11s4 v3 router. Any suggestions on how to find a compatible wireless usb adapter?


----------



## megazone

http://www.tivo.com/adapters


----------



## DaddyBC

hegewald123 said:


> I have a linksys wusb54g working in g broadcast mode working with a linksys wap54g router and no problems.


I have a wusb54g I tried to connect to Tivo and is not recognized. What did you do to get it working?


----------



## haretrigger

DaddyBC said:


> I have a wusb54g I tried to connect to Tivo and is not recognized. What did you do to get it working?


 I have a WUSB54G that TiVo will not recognize. Mine is v2, it might be the version of the adapter that is the difference. Does anyone have any input on this?


----------



## hockeybrad

My WUSB54G arrived today, doesn't have a version number, and does not work with Tivo. Tivo recognizes it, which is a step in the right direction, but it doesn't have adapters and refuses to use it.

How can they continue to deny what is arguably the most popular USB adapter (linksys G)?


----------



## megazone

hockeybrad said:


> How can they continue to deny what is arguably the most popular USB adapter (linksys G)?


They're not denying anything. To support it there needs to be drivers for Linux that are proven and stable, then they need to port it to the TiVo platform and test it before it gets released. Vendors keep changing their chipsets and tend to only release drivers for Windows and Mac, so there is often a long delay before the Linux world can use them. And then a further delay before TiVo can. Chasing this moving target is why TiVo has been working on their own TiVo-branded 11g adapter.


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## DocNo

TiVoBill said:


> I am not aware of any plans to add support for WPA encryption at this time.


Any update on this? The only thing keeping me from hooking Tivo up to my wireless network directly 

Oh well, I know you probably can't comment but here's to hoping the Tivo branded adaptor will finally help make this possible


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## neilio

DocNo said:


> Any update on this? The only thing keeping me from hooking Tivo up to my wireless network directly


I really, really, hope this is added in a future upgrade. I'm running WEP right now but I really want to switch back to WPA as soon as possible.


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## sroney

so will this apapter work or not "D-Link Wireless G 54 USB Adapter DWL-G122 Wi Fi H/W B1"


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## megazone

sroney said:


> so will this apapter work or not "D-Link Wireless G 54 USB Adapter DWL-G122 Wi Fi H/W B1"


Not: http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv2184.htm?


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## TiVoJerry

The good news is that today we put up the TiVo Wireless G Adapter. This adapter is fully supported by ALL Series2 standalone platforms, even the units with a prefix of 110, 130, or 140. The thread discussing all of this is here

Unfortunately, WPA is still not supported as that change needs to go into our SW as well. I don't yet have an ETA as to when that will be happening.


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## tobe

I've had Tivo since the early days and finally moved up to a Series 2 after getting one for Christmas this year. 

I was extremely disappointed to learn that Tivo doesn't support WPA encryption as all our other devices using wireless do support WPA. As a result, I had to dumb down the security on my network to WEP solely for Tivo and, worse, our laptops are now constantly dropping their Internet connections when before switching to WEP everything was nearly flawless.

After doing some research it seems there are ways around this (buying USB/ethernet adapter for Tivo and then hardwiring the Tivo to a bridge to negotiate WPA traffic), but I feel it's asking a lot to spend another $100 or so just to address the fact Tivo won't support WPA natively. 

I would greatly appreciate it if one of the Tivo engineers could respond to this and let me know if there are any plans to add WPA support. If so, how soon can we expect to see this? 

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Tobe


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## megazone

TiVo won't discuss unannounced features - and WPA is such a feature.


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## Impulses

Two of the computers at home were having difficulty with their wireless connection after I switched the network down to WEP in order to get TiVo working on it...

I'm using a Linksys WRT54GS router, and various Linksys 54G adapters... WMP54G PCI one on one PC, with SpeedBooster, non-SB USB one on another (WUSB54G v4), old-non-SB one on the TiVo that miraculously worked despite never having read that it would be compatible (v1), etc.

In any case, I managed to solve all connectivity issues fairly easily. On one PC (PCI adapter) all it took was disabling a 802.11x authentication option that I wasn't using anyway (called EAP, works w/Smartcards and stuff, business make use of it)...

Having it enabled made Window's WCZ util go out and try to authenticate periodically which dropped the connection with WEP (even though it didn't with WPA).

On another PC (newer USB adapter) I had to go ahead and install Linksys' own connection monitor and use that instead of Window's. Said program didn't originally work with Windows XP when I installed the first adapters over a year ago but their newest version does and is actually a recommended install on the manual.

Installing it fixed all of that computer's connectivity issues, truth be told it improved the connection and does provide more information than Window's own ap (it has a tendency to flip out and say the connection is down when it isn't but oh well, heh).

In any case, play with it, just as long as you know what you're doing, and you can probably resolve all your issues without tossing more money at the problem.


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## Impulses

Reason I registered to post here today wasn't actually to dispense advice, I wanted to ask if anyone has had better results with TiVo's own adapter than other adapters... I understand that the USB1 programming is the biggest bottleneck and whatnot but I've heard that regardless of that transfers still tend to be faster with Ethernet USB adapters, etc.

I've also heard that TiVo's own adapter removes some of the overhead of file transfers on the unit due to it's design, which makes all the sense in the world to me. I've even witnessed first hand that having it within a program and on Pause while transfering speeds them up (pressumably because this too frees up resources within the unit).

So yea, has anyone seen a marked improvement with it or what? I avoided buying it initially 'cuz they won't ship it down to Puerto Rico so I would've had to make a relative re-send it, and I wanted to buy a Linksys adapter I could re-use in the future for other purposes.

I ended up discovering that the old WUSB54G I had worked out of blind luck, bought a new identical one for the PC (this one, of course, doesn't work with the TiVo, it's Ver. 4). I suppose to measure and compare I should gauge how long my OWN transfers have been taking...

Truth be told I should've done that by now but I was so eager to transfer some of the shows I recorded these first few weeks I totally forogot. A 1 hr X-Files episode I just started transfering (Medium Qual) is saying it'll take 1 hr and 40-ish min, probably under 1.5 hrs if I go and Pause the TiVo on a show and leave it like that thru the transfer.

I've had 30m High Quality animated shows (800 MB) take about an hour to transfer completely if I recall correctly. So, would TiVo's own adapter improve this any?


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## cdeckert219

For what it's worth... I have one of the new TiVo branded wireless G adapters connected to my Humax DRT-400. I've got a Belkin Pre-N router; and an Airlink G PC card in my laptop. I'm currently transferring a file to my laptop, and Windows reports a transfer speed of 295KB/sec.


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## rog

Impulses said:


> *Is TiVo's own adapter noticeably better?*
> 
> <snip>
> 
> So yea, has anyone seen a marked improvement with it or what?
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I've had 30m High Quality animated shows (800 MB) take about an hour to transfer completely if I recall correctly. So, would TiVo's own adapter improve this any?


Yes, yes, and probably yes. You really should search the forums a bit more. This thread might be a good place to start:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=278655

But, yes, I've seen many posters report increases in transfer speeds. I've not seen anyone post about a decrease in performance.


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## Impulses

Thanks for the link, had to dig a lot past the initial WPA discussion to find some concrete info but it's there and the difference can apparently be very substantial... I've searched thru the forums a bit but I may have missed the info on that thread since it went off-topic for a few pages, sorry, very good info though.

The performance for TiVo's adapter seems to completely dwarf other adapters, not what I had expected from the comments I'd read elsewhere, I didn't expect anything in the magnitude of 50% faster..  Heck even 20% would've made me consider buying it but comments elswhere made it sound like a flaky proposition. Thanks once more.


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## greg_burns

A poster in that thread states the new wireless Tivo adapter is FASTER than a wired USB200M. Is this for real?


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## Impulses

Well, much of it is relative to how you set it up, but TiVo's own adapter seems to be very efficient and in most cases it seems to be about on par with a wired connection... Other factors bottleneck either type of connection.

It's pretty clear that it's way more effective than other wireless adapters though, in an ideal situation you can almost transfer shows in real time to the TiVo, or close to it... Can't match that with anything but a wired adapter.

Being able to do that is rather convenient, right now I have to think it thru if I wanna transfer shows back to my TiVo from my PC on a whim because of how long it'll take.

With TiVo's adapter I could just set it, take a bathroom break or get a snack, and then start watching as it continues transfering; like mentioned in the above linked thread.


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## rog

greg_burns said:


> A poster in that thread states the new wireless Tivo adapter is FASTER than a wired USB200M. Is this for real?


I don't know to be honest, but given that the new TiVo adapter was designed to offload some of the processing involved with TiVoToGo transfers, I would say it is feasible. MultiRoomViewing is probably a different story... I would expect wired connections to retain the advantage there, because MRV doesn't require the heavy processing that TTG incurs (which is now being offloaded).


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## greg_burns

rog said:


> I don't know to be honest, but given that the new TiVo adapter was designed to offload some of the processing involved with TiVoToGo transfers, I would say it is feasible.


I could've swore TivoJerry said the new things it does couldn't be applied to a wired version that would make any differences. Now where's that thread gotten to?...

Edit: this is the post I was thinking of. That is how I interpreted his comments. 



rog said:


> MultiRoomViewing is probably a different story... I would expect wired connections to retain the advantage there, because MRV doesn't require the heavy processing that TTG incurs (which is now being offloaded).


ufo4sale came back to that thread to say _that _ was the only thing he tested. The mystery deepens. 



ufo4sale said:


> Ok, I have 3 540 series II TiVo's. The only thing that I tested was the MRV AND NOTHING ELSE.


Might just have to buy one myself to find out one way or the other.


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## Kirkb

megazone said:


> TiVo won't discuss unannounced features - and WPA is such a feature.


I opened a ticket with TiVo support on WPA availability nearly two years ago. I think that, in response to my open issue, they should reconsider that policy. Especially now that they're losing market share to the cable company (whose DVR is half the monthly cost and can record 2 channels simultaneously), and to the Snapstream (Windows) and MythTV (OpenSource). Neither of which have monthly fees.

And no, Tivo support has NEVER had the courtesy to respond.


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## BigDTennisDon

I have two questions. (1) How do I submit a new Post? (2) I have a chance to buy a new AirLink "g" USB wireless adapter. Does anyone know if this brand will work. No AirLink units are even mentioned on TiVo Approved list...good or bad. 
Thanks BigDTennisDon


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## greg_burns

BigDTennisDon said:


> I have two questions. (1) How do I submit a new Post? (2) I have a chance to buy a new AirLink "g" USB wireless adapter. Does anyone know if this brand will work. No AirLink units are even mentioned on TiVo Approved list...good or bad.
> Thanks BigDTennisDon


At the top of the page click on "TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo " link. From there you can start a new thread with the new thread button.

Wireless is very iffy with Tivo. If it isn't on this list, I would even try.


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## bbanks

I am a bit frustrated trying to get a compatable adapter to work with my new Tivo series 2 DT. I purchased a Netgear tivo wireless usb adapter and installed, only to find out that it isn't on the compatability list. I returned it yesterday and along with my list of compatable adapters, purchased a D-Link DWL G122. It too was not compatable to the box.

Please advise....this is wayyyy more difficult than it should be. 

Thanks,
Bob


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## greg_burns

bbanks said:


> I am a bit frustrated trying to get a compatable adapter to work with my new Tivo series 2 DT. I purchased a Netgear tivo wireless usb adapter and installed, only to find out that it isn't on the compatability list. I returned it yesterday and along with my list of compatable adapters, purchased a D-Link DWL G122. It too was not compatable to the box.
> 
> Please advise....this is wayyyy more difficult than it should be.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob


Tivo Wireless Adapter


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## TiVoJerry

bbanks, it's really bad form to post the exact same thing in three separate threads. One was more than enough, as all of the replies said the exact same thing.


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